All 42 Parliamentary debates on 12th Sep 2023

Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Online Safety Bill
Commons Chamber

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Firearms Bill
Lords Chamber

Order of Commitment discharged & Order of Commitment discharged: Minutes of Proceedings
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Energy Bill [HL]
Lords Chamber

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tue 12th Sep 2023
Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill
Lords Chamber

Consideration of Commons amendments & Consideration of Commons amendments: Minutes of Proceedings
Tue 12th Sep 2023

House of Commons

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text
Tuesday 12 September 2023
The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock

Prayers

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text
Prayers mark the daily opening of Parliament. The occassion is used by MPs to reserve seats in the Commons Chamber with 'prayer cards'. Prayers are not televised on the official feed.

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Oral Answers to Questions

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State was asked—
Chris Evans Portrait Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the probation service.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Probation professionals perform a critical and invaluable role for our society. We are injecting an additional £155 million a year to recruit more staff, reduce case loads and continue to deliver better community supervision of offenders. We are seeing improvements in performance as that investment beds in, but there is more to do and I continue to monitor things closely.

Chris Evans Portrait Chris Evans
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that answer, but he will know that Napo, GMB and Unison all say that the probation service is facing soaring workloads. Employees are battling under the pressure and sickness rates are high. With many workers off sick, the impact on public safety will be massive. Something must be done. Stepping outside the politics of this, will he commit to working constructively with unions and other agencies to bring about a strategy that will address this critical area of probation?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman who I know takes a very close interest in these matters, and rightly so. I commit to working in partnership with unions and other representative bodies and others to make sure that we have the right support for this service. Let me reassure him that recruitment to the probation service has been very encouraging over the past three years and we have managed to exceed our stretching recruitment targets.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Let me welcome the shadow Minister to her post.

Ruth Cadbury Portrait Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

In July, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Probation reported that it had found that far too many potential victims of domestic violence are at risk from those on probation due to wide-ranging systemic failures in the service. Furthermore, the chief inspector of the probation service said that things have deteriorated since the 2018 report into the probation service. Is the Minister not concerned that, once again, after 13 years of Conservative rule, things are continuing to get worse for victims of domestic violence?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

First, may I join you, Mr Speaker, in welcoming the hon. Lady to her place? I look forward to working constructively with her. She raises an important point about the protection of people from domestic abuse from those who are on probation. I can reassure her that we have put in place further measures and, indeed, invested additional money—£1.5 million a year—to support those extra checks into addresses of where offenders may be going, to make sure that there is not that domestic abuse risk.

Sheryll Murray Portrait Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

2. What steps his Department is taking to help offenders find employment following release from prison.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We continue to develop opportunities for work and training, both during custody and on release. I am pleased to say that the proportion of prison leavers employed six months after release has increased markedly over the past two years.

Sheryll Murray Portrait Mrs Murray
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

What help can the Department give to aid the mobility of this potential workforce and get them to where they need to be?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend raises an important point. Going to where the job opportunities are is incredibly important; I would mention to her opportunities such as the Jobcentre Plus railcard through the Department for Work and Pensions. We also need to make sure that, at the point of release, prisoners are put in touch with opportunities near to where they live—where they are going to. Although we work with employers large and small, there is a particular value in working with multi-site firms that have locations in many different places.

Andy Slaughter Portrait Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

There have been seven deaths in Wormwood Scrubs prison as a result of self-harm in the past three years. The first of the inquests into those deaths—that of Luke Clarke—was concluded only last month. It found that inadequate care, fear and confusion contributed to Luke’s death. What is the Ministry of Justice doing to prevent the unacceptable level of self-inflicted and avoidable deaths in prison and what is it doing to speed up the inquest process? I am still waiting for the meeting into the inquest process that I was promised on 27 June by the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer).

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We were talking about employment on release, but what the hon. Gentleman raises is incredibly important. I have visited Wormwood Scrubs. Rates of self-harm are unacceptably high. They vary by place. In the women’s estate, we have a particular issue with self-harm. We are working closely with the national health service, which provides mental health support in prisons. I am absolutely determined that we bring down levels of self-harm.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the new shadow Minister.

Janet Daby Portrait Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Prison leavers in employment training are less likely to reoffend. That means that education and training for young offenders in prison is crucial. Will the Minister say why the Government have failed so far to implement a new prison education service? It was promised in their party’s manifesto in 2019. Implementing it in 2025 is too little, too late.

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I join you, Mr Speaker, in welcoming the hon. Lady to her place and similarly look forward to working with her. I can bring her good news. First, there is an education service operating in every prison, with four contracted providers. We also have additional provision that governors can put in place, but for the new service that she mentions—it was indeed a manifesto commitment—the process is well under way. I look forward to being able to make further announcements before long.

Lord Cryer Portrait John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

3. What steps his Department is taking to reform the criminal justice system to help tackle violence against women and girls.

Debbie Abrahams Portrait Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

10. What steps his Department is taking to reform the criminal justice system to help tackle violence against women and girls.

Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

12. What steps his Department is taking to reform the criminal justice system to help tackle violence against women and girls.

Edward Argar Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Edward Argar)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The crimes associated with VAWG are abhorrent, which is why we have already taken significant action to strengthen the criminal justice system’s response to it, including for example through our end-to-end rape review, driving up prosecutions, and the introduction of new protections for victims through the landmark Domestic Abuse Act 2021. Much has been done, but we are ambitious in wanting to go further.

Lord Cryer Portrait John Cryer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand what the Minister is saying, but it takes two years or more for rape cases to come to court, and 69% of victims withdraw from the cases before they come to trial. Has the Minister had the chance to look at our proposal for specialist rape courts in every Crown court in the country?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I crave your indulgence, Mr Speaker. May I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin), who shadowed me for some time, and to the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Ellie Reeves), who also did so? I wish them both well, although given the latter’s election co-ordination role, hopefully not too well.

It remains our priority to deliver swifter access to justice for victims of rape. As the hon. Gentleman says, the experience of attending court is incredibly difficult for them. That is why we have committed to increasing the number of independent sexual violence advisers and independent domestic violence advisers to more than 1,000 over the next three years. In June 2022, we announced our ambitious specialist sexual violence support project in three Crown courts, aimed at improving facilities and technology.

On the hon. Gentleman’s specific question, I would urge a degree of caution on those proposals. Listing is a judicial prerogative, and it is important we retain flexibility in the use of the court estate to maximise the use of courts and judges’ time for a range of offences and to meet the needs of the courts.

Debbie Abrahams Portrait Debbie Abrahams
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse recognised the issues with the criminal justice system and said:

“The length of time taken to investigate and prosecute child sexual abuse cases was…a matter of significant concern. Delay within the criminal justice system can add to the harm caused by sexual abuse”.

The experience of a constituent I am helping suggests that is still the case. What mandatory training for court, judicial and other criminal justice is available to ensure that they appropriately support people who have been subject to this abuse?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is nice to see the hon. Lady in her place and it is always a pleasure to answer questions from her. She highlights an important issue raised by IICSA and historic and current child sexual abuse. It is worth remembering that the investigation of such crimes can be lengthy because of the complexities of the crimes and of obtaining evidence. While training for the judiciary and courts is a matter for the judiciary and the Judicial College rather than for the Government, we have been investing in training, as have police forces, across a range of specialisms, including handling child sexual abuse cases. It is important that they are handled with sensitivity and with an understanding of the impact that the trauma has had on those who are victims, and indeed also those who are witnesses. She touched on a specific case and I am happy to engage with her outwith the Chamber if that would be helpful.

Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

According to the latest research, rape charges are taking longer to be brought forward; the average time a victim has to wait for their attacker to be charged—just charged—is now 400 days, over a year. That is disgraceful, and the situation is getting worse. When will Ministers speed up the process and give women, girls and all victims of rape across England and Wales the justice they deserve?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Lady is right to highlight the importance of timeliness. One of the key aims of Operation Soteria—the new model for investigating rape and serious sexual offences that is being rolled out to all police forces in the coming months—is to improve timeliness. Investigations in this space are, of necessity, often complex and can take a long time. The number of rape convictions is at or around the level it was in 2010. Now, the number of cases passed by the police to the Crown Prosecution Service for charge is up 130%. The number of cases charged is up more than 90%, and the number of cases received in the Crown court is up by more than 120%. Much has been achieved, but she is right to highlight that there is always more that we can and should do in this important space.

Maria Miller Portrait Dame Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

To tackle violence against women and girls, we need a criminal justice system that works. Part of that is having laws that are up to date to deal with the issues that women face today. I had the pleasure of working with my right hon. Friend the Minister on amendments to the Online Safety Bill that will make it a criminal offence to post intimate images online without consent, but he, I and others know that there are still gaps in the law when it comes to the making of those images. Will he give us an indication of when the Government intend to bring forward further legislation, not only to deal with that, but to keep online safety under constant review?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It has been a pleasure to work with my right hon. Friend on those amendments to the Online Safety Bill, which returns to the Commons today. She is right to highlight the rapidly changing environment that we are legislating for and the need therefore to keep things under constant review. Although she tempts me, I shall resist the temptation to speculate on a forthcoming King’s Speech or any future legislative announcements. What I will say, which I hope will give her some reassurance, is that we have been clear that, as soon as legislative time can be found, the Government are committed to implementing the full package of measures in the Law Commission report.

Simon Lightwood Portrait Simon Lightwood (Wakefield) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4. Whether he has made a recent assessment of the performance of prisons in Wakefield constituency.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The most recent annual prison performance ratings for 2022-23 were published in July. His Majesty’s Prison and Young Offender Institution New Hall was rated a 2, which is a matter of concern. HMP Wakefield was rated a 4, or outstanding.

Simon Lightwood Portrait Simon Lightwood
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons inspected HMP Wakefield last year and had several concerns, including many that remained unaddressed since its previous visit. Those concerns included infrastructure that is in such a poor condition that it needs investment, insufficient healthcare staff, a lack of mental health interventions and too few activity places. The prison leadership and staff continue to do the right thing and should be praised, but when will the Minister play his part and get our prisons back on track?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman is right to talk about the inspectorate of prisons reports, which are a very important part of our system and help to hold the Prison Service and us to account. In the case of Wakefield, as he mentions, it was judged a 3, which is reasonably good, for safety, for respect and for rehabilitation and release planning. There was more to do on purposeful activity, which I readily accept is a theme we have seen in a number of reports from different prisons over time, particularly since covid. The inspector also mentioned the strong leadership at the prison and that the prison was settled. We need to continue to make progress, but I join the hon. Gentleman in playing tribute to the leadership at that prison and throughout our Prison Service, and to all the brilliant staff who make it what it is.

Peter Aldous Portrait Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

5. What steps his Department is taking to reduce the backlog of criminal court cases.

Mike Freer Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mike Freer)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend raises an important point, and we remain committed to working with our partners across the criminal justice system to try to ensure that court processes are as efficient as possible. We have introduced a raft of measures to achieve that aim, including allowing courts for a third year in a row to sit for an unlimited number of days, with extended use of 24 Nightingale courtrooms. In addition, we have opened two permanent super-courtrooms in Manchester and Loughborough and are recruiting an additional 1,000 judges across all jurisdictions.

Peter Aldous Portrait Peter Aldous
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. In Suffolk, the backlog of criminal court cases remains stubbornly high, which is not only denying victims justice, but placing a huge burden on the police and costing the local taxpayer a fortune. Working with Suffolk’s police and crime commissioner Tim Passmore, can my hon. Friend produce a comprehensive and bespoke plan that first clears the backlog, and then sets out a long-term strategy for the efficient functioning of the courts in the county?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I can reassure my hon. Friend that in Suffolk the disposals to March 2023 were up by 23% on the previous quarter, while the outstanding case loads slightly reduced in the same period. That reflects the hard work that is done with our partners to ensure that we get through the case load as fast as possible. We continue to work with the judiciary to identify how we can get the high workload moving more smoothly. Across the Department, and working with our partners, the Crown court improvement group continues to look at best practice and the local criminal justice board will always look at best practice across the country to see what we can do to ensure that his area continues to perform.

Barry Sheerman Portrait Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Is the Minister aware that the criminal courts are full of cases relating to joint enterprise, a terrible miscarriage of justice? Will he and the Justice team promise to meet me and the campaigning group JENGbA—Joint Enterprise Not Guilty by Association—to see whether we can clear the justice system of the many people who should never have been in the courts?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman has campaigned on that issue for some time, and I have met his colleague, the hon. Member for Edmonton (Kate Osamor), to discuss it. The data collection does not support the identification of cases relating to joint enterprise, but I understand that the Crown Prosecution is now doing an exercise on better data collection to see whether the issue that he continues to raise, quite rightly, is borne out by the data, and we can see what action we might take to address any injustices.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the shadow Minister.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

As the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) pointed out, chaos in our courts continues. Now, 500 security guards have voted for strike action after a pay offer worth just 38p an hour above the minimum wage. Peter Slator, chairman of OCS, which employs the guards, says in his annual review:

“This was an exceptional year where our colleagues went above and beyond to deliver reliable, high-quality services for our customers around the world in the most challenging circumstances. The reliability and resilience of our frontline colleagues during the pandemic has been exceptional.”

I am sure the Minister will agree that the Government should pay Mr Slator’s company enough for him to deliver fair pay. Will he intervene to stop further chaos in our courts?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Our courts are not in chaos. [Interruption.] I am sure that if the hon. Gentleman took the time to talk to all partners across the criminal justice system, they would bear that out. All elements of the criminal justice system, in whatever role they play, continue to ensure that it works smoothly. The pay award is a matter for the private sector employer; I will not intervene.

Jamie Stone Portrait Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

6. What recent discussions he has had with the Scottish Government on justice.

Mike Freer Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mike Freer)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am pleased to say that the inaugural meeting of the inter-ministerial group on justice is taking place this afternoon, chaired by Lord Bellamy and attended by the Scottish Government Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Angela Constance MSP, as well the Counsel General for Wales, Mick Antoniw MS. That new forum has been established by an agreement between the four nations of the UK. It has discussed justice issues of mutual interest.

Jamie Stone Portrait Jamie Stone
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I rise as a convinced devolutionist. In fact, I think I am the only Member of this place whose signature is on the Claim of Right for Scotland. As and when a new law is agreed in Edinburgh or Cardiff, say, what mechanism is in place to ensure that any such new law will not disrupt either England or other parts of the United Kingdom?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman raises a good point. We have more recently seen the Scottish Government attempt to railroad the rest of the UK on gender recognition. It is better when our legislatures work in tandem for the benefit of all parties, not when Scotland tries to disrupt other parts of the United Kingdom with ill-thought out legislation.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the SNP spokesperson.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Government will amend the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 this afternoon. That 50-year-old piece of legislation controls the shape of Scotland’s criminal justice system to punish drug addiction with the full force of the law rather than treat users, in health settings, as addicts with health conditions. What conversations has the Minister had with Cabinet colleagues in the Scottish Government on introducing a safe drug consumption room pilot in Glasgow?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am not sure, based on recent reports, that that particular pilot is working well. I will happily ask colleagues to see whether that pilot is working as the hon. Gentleman says it is, but that is not what the newspapers are reporting. The UK Government’s response to it is something for the inter-ministerial group, which is meeting this afternoon.

Chris Stephens Portrait Chris Stephens
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am a bit confused by the Minister’s response. There currently is no pilot in Glasgow, but perhaps there have been some positive discussions between the Scottish Government and the Government here. Given that there are 100 drug consumption rooms in more than 60 cities across the world, supported by mountains of evidence from NGOs, civil society groups and drug activists, alongside the Lord Advocate’s new policy not to prosecute drug users for possession offences committed within a pilot safer drugs consumption facility, can the Minister give an iron-clad commitment that the Government will not block this life-saving health measure?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

How that legislation is dealt with is a matter for other colleagues, but I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that, if treating drug taking as a health issue is working as he suggests it is, we will learn from that and discuss it with our colleagues in the NHS. The broad principle of it being a health issue is being dealt with by the NHS and the Health Secretary. In terms of legislation, that is a matter for Cabinet colleagues.

Lyn Brown Portrait Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

7. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of the prison estate for housing prisoners.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are building 20,000 modern prison places to help rehabilitate prisoners, cut crime and protect the public, and we continue to invest in prison maintenance, so that existing places remain in use and safe.

Lyn Brown Portrait Ms Brown
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister’s answer is very interesting because, let’s face it, our prisons have been run down for 13 years. Many are so old that they were built before RAAC—reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete—was even a twinkle in somebody’s bank account. If we read the inspection reports, as I have, it is a list of woes. They are draughty, damp, infested, terribly overcrowded and woefully understaffed—hardly likely to enable rehabilitation. It is our communities that endure the consequences, with at least 37% of prison leavers reoffending within 18 months. It is simply not good enough, is it?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We continue to upgrade the prison estate. As I say, we are investing in 20,000 new places—the biggest expansion in the secure estate since the Victorian era. At the same time, we have been taking out some of our most overcrowded and unsuitable prisons. In the last financial year, we took out 1,900 places, and we are investing £168 million in custodial maintenance for 2023-24 and 2024-25.

The hon. Lady mentioned reoffending. There is no good level of reoffending but zero, but I am pleased to be able to report good progress on reoffending, which has been coming down as a result of more ex-offenders getting into employment, fewer of them being homeless and more being able to get suitable, good treatment for addiction.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the Chair of the Justice Committee.

Robert Neill Portrait Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Justice Committee is proposing to hold an inquiry into future prison population and estate capacity, and I look forward to the Minister giving evidence to us about that. He will know that that is prompted in part by concerns that overall overcrowding in the adult male estate is some 23%, and it is much worse in many of the old local prisons. While he is right to draw attention to the Government’s new prison building programme, even if that were all completed on time, there would, according to figures we have seen, be a shortfall in March 2025 of about 2,300 places as against anticipated demand. What is going to be done to deal with that? Should we have a proper conversation with the public about what is a reasonable expectation of what can be done in prisons, what is the best use of prisons and who should be there?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

On my hon. Friend’s last point, of course we must constantly be having an intelligent, constructive public debate about these matters. On the question of capacity, projections change, and there are many complex factors at play. I look forward, as ever, to being scrutinised by his Committee on that point.

It is important to note that crowding—doubling up in cells—has for a very long time been a feature of our prison system. Crowding overall is 2,000 fewer than it was when we came into government in 2010.

Luke Evans Portrait Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

8. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to reduce the number of foreign national offenders in the prison system.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Between January 2019 and December 2022, we removed 13,851 foreign national offenders from the country. As my hon. Friend rightly suggests, that is all about close working with colleagues, including in the Home Office.

Luke Evans Portrait Dr Evans
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We have all seen the stories of convicted foreign criminals being pulled off planes at the last minute. The Nationality and Borders Act 2022 was brought in to improve the process of returning criminals—to speed up that process and increase the window for removal of foreign national offenders from prison under the early removal scheme. Could my right hon. Friend comment on how that scheme is working, how he expects it to affect the numbers, and how he expects the process to be sped up?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

As my hon. Friend mentions, under the Nationality and Borders Act, we expanded the FNO early removal scheme window from nine months to 12 months, allowing for earlier removal. We are working closely with the Home Office on that. In May, we also agreed a landmark new deal with Albania, and we are working to negotiate new prisoner transfer agreements with EU member states and other countries.

Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister very much for that response. It has been reported that the proportion of Northern Ireland’s total jail population who hail from outside the United Kingdom and Ireland is disproportionately high—the figures indicate that it is between 7% and 9% per year. Has the Minister had an opportunity to assess that with the Department of Justice back home?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

As the hon. Gentleman knows, given the way we are organised, we do not cover the Northern Ireland Prison Service. However, it is very important that we stay in close touch and, although I have not had that specific conversation recently with colleagues in Northern Ireland, there will no doubt be opportunities in the future.

Matt Rodda Portrait Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

9. What progress he has made on the sale of Reading Gaol.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The sale of Reading Prison is proceeding and, barring any unexpected complications, completion is expected later this autumn.

Matt Rodda Portrait Matt Rodda
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his answer, and for meeting me and the right hon. Member for Reading West (Sir Alok Sharma) recently to discuss this matter. Reading Gaol is a hugely important historic building, and nearly 13,000 people across Berkshire have now signed a petition asking the Government to work with me and the local arts community to turn the gaol into an arts hub. It has taken the Government a long time to discuss the proposed sale with their preferred bidder and no progress—or slow progress—appears to be being made. Will the Minister now reconsider the Government’s approach and work with me, Reading Borough Council and the local arts community to save this wonderful building?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The sale is progressing. Of course, any proposed development would be subject to approval from Reading Borough Council’s planning department, and the usual due diligence requirements and so on will apply.

We quite often throw around the term “doughty campaigner” in this Chamber, but I can certainly say that the hon. Gentleman and my right hon. Friend the Member for Reading West (Sir Alok Sharma), his neighbour, have been incredibly assiduous in their attention to this matter on behalf of their constituents. In turn, I commit to him that we will absolutely stay in touch.

Gareth Johnson Portrait Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

11. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure that offenders attend their sentencing.

Edward Argar Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Edward Argar)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is right that those convicted of a crime face up to its consequences by being in court when they are sentenced. On 30 August, the Lord Chancellor announced his intention to legislate as soon as parliamentary time allows to enable judges to order an offender to attend court for sentencing, making it clear in legislation that reasonable force can be used to compel attendance and that refusal to comply with a judge’s order will cause the offender to face up to two years in custody.

Gareth Johnson Portrait Gareth Johnson
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

In 2014, Colin Ash-Smith was convicted of murdering 16-year-old Claire Tiltman in my constituency of Dartford. His final insult to her was to refuse to attend the sentencing hearing, so I welcome the proposed changes to compel defendants to face up to the consequences of their actions. However, can the Minister confirm that there will be an opportunity for judges to hear representations from the prosecution, defence, and security staff before such action is taken?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I hope he will allow me this opportunity to express my sympathy to the friends and family of Claire Tiltman, who lived in his constituency and, in 1993, was tragically murdered. I was glad to see her murderer brought to justice after so many years. Colin Ash-Smith, like Lucy Letby, was cowardly for not attending the sentencing hearing to face up to his appalling crime. Each case is different, so it is important that the court and the judge have discretion in how to make an attendance order, and in reaching that decision—although we are working through the details—we would expect the courts to consider the full circumstances of each individual case, including any representations made by the prosecution or the defence in that context.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

If we want offenders to attend their sentencing, it does rather help if the court is open. Harrow Crown court was closed two and a half weeks ago because of the discovery of crumbling concrete—RAAC—with no indication as yet of any timescale for it to be reopened. Its closure will inevitably exacerbate the backlog of criminal cases in the London area and prevent victims of crime from seeing justice. Could the Minister provide quickly an update on the progress at getting Harrow Crown court modernised, fully repaired and open again?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, particularly for the dexterity with which he got Harrow Crown court in. He is right to highlight that case. I understand that remedial work is under way and that cases listed there have been transferred to other London courts to ensure they still continue to be heard. I understand from the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer), that the indicative timescale to complete the works is six to nine months.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I welcome the shadow Minister, Kevin Brennan. It will be quieter on the Back Benches but no doubt he will make up for it on the Front Bench.

Kevin Brennan Portrait Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I suspect the Minister might anticipate what I am going to ask him because I am beginning to think the Department should be renamed the Department for Justice Delayed. Labour proposed that we change the law on attending sentencing back in 2022, and just last month the Leader of the Opposition said that we were prepared to amend the relevant legislation if there was no action, so why is it taking so long for the Government to intervene on behalf of victims and their families?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and may I take the opportunity to welcome him to his place? I suspect there will occasionally be to-and-fros across this Chamber, but I hope there will also be opportunities, where we are in agreement, to work constructively together. We have been clear on our intention to bring forward appropriate legislation to reinforce the existing powers the judiciary has in this respect, but it is important that we get this right and that it builds in that degree of judicial discretion, because there may be some circumstances where victims would not wish to see the offender in court for sentencing because it would be deeply distressing or deeply disruptive. So it is important that we get this right. We are determined to do that, but we will work through the detail to make sure it is robust and effective.

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

13. How many staff vacancies there are in prisons in England and Wales.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We have recently seen indications of an improving national staffing picture in prisons, with an increase of 700 full-time equivalent bands 3 to 5 prison officers and youth justice workers in the year to June 2023.

Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer, but the damning report into HMP Woodhill, just adjacent to my constituency, was clear that staff shortages were a huge factor in the serious issues that prison faces. It is equally well known that HMP Spring Hill and HMP Grendon in my constituency have faced recruitment challenges. In that light, if we cannot staff the prisons that we do have, surely it is unworkable to carry on with my right hon. Friend’s totally unwanted plans to build a new mega-prison in my constituency and that planning appeal should be withdrawn.

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who takes a close interest in these matters, and rightly so, particularly on behalf of his constituents who are prison officers and other staff in and around his constituency. I can assure him we are working urgently to address the findings and the urgent notification at Woodhill. I think we will come on to that a little later in questions from hon. Friends. The Lord Chancellor will, as ever, be publishing an action plan by the end of the month. We also have active recruitment campaigns in place for Grendon and Spring Hill and are seeking to increase numbers by incentivised recruitment.

Alistair Carmichael Portrait Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

14. What recent assessment he has made of conditions at magistrates courts.

Mike Freer Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mike Freer)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I recognise that there continues to be work to be done to improve conditions in some magistrates courts for the users, and that is why we have boosted the capital investment programme to £220 million over the next two years to March 2025 to improve the quality and enhance the resilience of the court and tribunal estate, allowing us to plan major projects much more in advance and with certainty. The improvements will ensure that those on the frontline of the justice system will benefit from buildings that are more accessible and sustainable.

Alistair Carmichael Portrait Mr Carmichael
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

We speak of access to justice meaning the availability of legal advice and representation but, for too many older and disabled people, physical access to justice through the magistrates courts in particular is well-nigh impossible because the buildings themselves are not fit for purpose. Actually, “not fit for purpose” was the term used to describe the magistrates courts in the Secretary of State’s constituency by the former police and crime commissioner. Do we not need more swift action to remedy the problem than the Minister has outlined?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I took quite a bit of time to read the report from the Magistrates Association on inaccessible courts to ensure that, where we can make reasonable adjustments, we make them, and that where we need to make more substantial investment to make the courts more accessible, particularly to make them compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, we do so and those works are prioritised. We continue to work on new courts, as in Blackpool and the City of London, to ensure that the estate is modernised and we have courts that are accessible and fit for purpose. The point is well made and it is in hand.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

15. What training is provided to magistrates to help ensure impartial decision making.

Mike Freer Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mike Freer)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

To preserve the independence of the judiciary, the Lord Chief Justice has a statutory responsibility for the training of the judiciary under the Constitutional Reform Act 2005, and that includes magistrates and their legal advisers. Magistrates, and the legal advisers who support them in court, must complete induction training before hearing cases and, once magistrates are sitting, continuation training is provided on regular cycles. Impartial decision making is woven throughout all the material.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his answer. Chris Pincher and I have been working very closely to ensure that the police act strongly and swiftly in Shenstone near Lichfield over constant demonstrations at an Israeli company that supplies arms to the British armed forces. Two people went to trial at a magistrates court in Walsall and they were acquitted. It is reported—we do not know for sure because it is not a court of record—that the judge said

“on the principle of proportionality…their action was proportionate in comparison to the crimes against humanity which they were acting to stop”

by the Israelis. I think that, if it were true, is outrageous. What can be done within the judicial system to ensure that that sort of thing does not happen, if indeed it did?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend raises an important point about the independence of the judiciary. We have to be careful that we do not rely on reports by a third party, perhaps with a vested interest, because these cases are not reported officially. However, if he wishes to discuss any points of law that may lead to an appeal from the prosecuting authority, he can do so and I am happy to work with him and guide him on how that may be taken up with the Attorney General. In terms of any complaints about the behaviour of the judiciary, there is a clearly defined process that I am happy to discuss with my hon. Friend after today’s session.

Theresa Villiers Portrait Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

16. What steps he is taking to increase recruitment to the probation service.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

At 30 June just over 20,000 people were working in the probation service—an increase of just over 2,300, or 13%, compared with 30 June the previous year.

Theresa Villiers Portrait Theresa Villiers
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. Two horrific cases—those of Jordan McSweeney and Damien Bendall—show how vital it is to have effective supervision of recently released offenders. What lessons have been learned from those two cases, and will the Minister provide an update on the action being taken to address problems in the probation service caused by high vacancy rates and consequentially unmanageably large case loads for probation staff?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend and again I express my sincere condolences to the families of Zara Aleena, Terri Harris, Connie Gent and John and Lacey Bennett. We have increased probation staff in the London area by 4.5% over the last year, and that includes 270 trainee probation officers in post. The service has accepted all the chief inspector’s recommendations in respect of the two appalling cases that my right hon. Friend mentioned, and it is implementing robust action plans, especially with regard to improving risk assessments.

Liz Saville Roberts Portrait Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

17. Whether he has held recent discussions with the Welsh Government on developing community-based alternatives to imprisonment for female offenders serving short sentences.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Ministers engage regularly with colleagues in the Welsh Government, including discussions on female offenders and alternatives to custody. Both Governments work closely on delivering the “Women’s justice blueprint for Wales” on female offending.

Liz Saville Roberts Portrait Liz Saville Roberts
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Short sentences for women often do more harm than good, reinforcing trauma and leading to further reoffending. In 2022, two thirds of sentences for immediate custody for women were for less than 12 months. It is anticipated that 1,000 more women will be in prison by 2026. How does the Secretary of State justify the growing female prison population and the use of short sentences, given Wales’s ambition to divert as many women as possible away from prison?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The women’s population in prison has come down, and sentencing is a matter for the judiciary and not something in which the Government intervene. It is important that suitable alternatives to custody are available, and I join the right hon. Lady in paying tribute to the people running women’s centres, for example, which do a fantastic job specifically for women, as well as to the broader set of alternative and community sentence options. It is important that we make sure we continue to work on those, including working together with the Welsh Government.

Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

T1.   If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Damian Hinds Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Damian Hinds)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Lord Chancellor, who has been in Riga attending a Council of Europe meeting, where a political declaration was signed on support for the Ukrainian justice system. He is sorry not to be here for these oral questions, and he has asked me to convey to the House his thanks to the Metropolitan police for their quick work in finding and returning Daniel Khalife to custody. The independent investigation that the Lord Chancellor commissioned must now get to the bottom of this serious breach. Since the last oral questions, the Government have also announced that we will make whole life orders the expectation in sentencing where they can be applied. We have also outlined plans to order the worst offenders to attend court for their sentencing hearings. We want to ensure that the worst offenders receive their sentences in the full glare of the courtroom, and that victims have the opportunity to set out the impact the crime has had on them.

Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

With Government spending for housing legal aid falling in the past decade from £44 million to £20 million and the spending for disrepair cases falling from nearly £4 million to just over £1 million, it is not a moment too soon that the Government have begun to restore some legal aid with the housing loss prevention advice service. Due to the Government’s disastrous Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, many housing legal aid providers shut up shop, leaving 42% of the population of England and Wales without a single provider in their local authority area and 84% with no access to welfare legal aid. What recent analysis has the Minister made of legal aid deserts, and what steps is he taking to remedy the situation?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are putting more money into legal aid and criminal legal aid following the independent review. Specifically on housing, which the hon. Lady mentioned, we are injecting an additional £10 million from 1 August.

Andrea Leadsom Portrait Dame Andrea Leadsom (South Northamp- tonshire) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T3. What conversations has my right hon. Friend had across government to make sure that the sentencing for those convicted of dangerous cycling is equalised with the sentencing guidelines for those convicted of dangerous driving?

Edward Argar Portrait The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Edward Argar)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who I know takes a keen interest in this issue. The safety of our roads is a key objective for the Government, and protecting all road users is a priority. Like all road users, cyclists have a duty to behave in a safe and responsible manner. While laws are in place for cyclists, they are old and it can be difficult to successfully prosecute offences. That is why Department for Transport colleagues are considering bringing forward legislation to introduce new offences concerning dangerous cycling to tackle those rare instances where victims have been killed or seriously injured by irresponsible cycling behaviour.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I welcome the new shadow Secretary of State to her post.

Shabana Mahmood Portrait Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for the update about Daniel Khalife, but the fact remains that HMP Wandsworth has been a known problem for the best part of a decade, with a litany of failures including overcrowding, staffing and security issues. Khalife is not even the first escape from Wandsworth; there was an incident in 2019, which the chief inspector of prisons said was the result of a “serious security breach”. Why, after so many warnings about Wandsworth, have the Government failed to act?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We take these matters extremely seriously. The independent investigation will of course look at the question the hon. Lady raised specifically about the 2019 incident to ensure that lessons were learned. If we look at the independent review of progress from His Majesty’s inspectorate, we see that progress has been made in Wandsworth, particularly on staffing, which I know has rightly been a matter of considerable public interest. There has been an increase of some 25% in staffing specifically at Wandsworth since 2017.

Shabana Mahmood Portrait Shabana Mahmood
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Years of warnings and years of inaction—I am afraid that rather sums the Government up. On Sunday, the Justice Secretary told us that 40 prisoners have been moved from Wandsworth, claiming that that was out of “an abundance of caution”. Will the Minister tell us how many other prisoners will have to be moved across the whole prison estate as a result of this escape? What the public want to see is not an abundance of caution after the fact of an escape but an abundance of certainty that the prison estate is secure. Is it?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is. The hon. Lady would not expect me to get into a running commentary on transfer arrangements when we are talking about security. I want to reassure her, the House and the public that escapes from prisons are very rare, and much rarer now than they used to be. The number of escapes from prison in the last 13 years—since 2010—is considerably lower than it was in the 13 years before.

Selaine Saxby Portrait Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T5.   To encourage active travel, people need to feel confident using our roads, yet the courts can impose only the same penalties on multiple offenders as on a first-timer. Will my right hon. Friend consider the introduction of escalating penalties for repeat traffic offences?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the issue of traffic offences. As part of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, there was an increase in the minimum disqualification periods for the serious offence of causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs from two years to five years, and an increase from three to six years if there is a repeat offence within three years. The Department for Transport is also currently considering a broader call for evidence on motoring offences. I hope that the very recent report from the all-party parliamentary group for cycling and walking will be useful to it in that respect. I will ensure that colleagues at the DFT are aware of her interest in this issue.

Kenny MacAskill Portrait Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T2. As the absurdity of terrorist offenders in low category prisons plays out, is it not time to free up space by removing Julian Assange from Belmarsh maximum security facility, where he has languished since April 2019, guilty only of a minor bail breach, when his real offence was exposing war crimes? Regardless of his place of incarceration, will the Minister ensure that he is able to attend proceedings in person, which he has been denied since January 2021, given all the comments about people being at court?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I think the hon. Gentleman has achieved his objective: to get something on the record. I will not comment on ongoing cases, but, speaking more generally, access to justice is at the heart of what we do.

Priti Patel Portrait Priti Patel  (Witham)  (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T6.   I have a constituent who suffered life-changing injuries as a result of an assault eight years ago—she is not on her own, on that basis—but she was awarded only £150 from a compensation order during the criminal case and offered £1,000 from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority. Will the Minister look at amending the Victims and Prisoners Bill so that victims can be given adequate care, compensation from offenders and support through the courts and, importantly, through the CICA?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who throughout her time in the House, and particularly while Home Secretary, has always taken a keen interest in supporting victims of crime. It is vital that victims get the compensation they are entitled to, be that from the offender or the criminal injuries compensation scheme, which paid out more than £173 million in 2022-23. The making of a compensation order is a matter for the court, and there is no limit on the amount that a court can order an offender to pay.

In respect of the criminal injuries compensation scheme, His Majesty’s Government are consulting on changes following the report of the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse alongside previous consultations. It is important that that can be considered fully, but that will be post-passage of the Victims and Prisoners Bill.

Sarah Green Portrait Sarah Green (Chesham and Amersham) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T4. One of my constituents tells me that they are at risk of losing their home because of how long they have had to wait for a benefit decision appeal. Will the Minister outline what steps his Department is taking to reduce the current 33-week waiting time for benefit decision appeals to be heard?

Mike Freer Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mike Freer)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Across the whole tribunal process, the team will constantly monitor who is performing and who is not, and will share best practice. If the hon. Lady would like to write to me with the details of a particular case, I can investigate the particular cause of delay.

Philip Hollobone Portrait Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T7.   Parliament passed a law in 2015 that offenders convicted of a second or subsequent knife offence should go to prison, yet in the year to March, 16,000 such offenders—37% of the total—dodged a jail sentence altogether. That is the highest total since the law was introduced. Will Ministers ensure that the courts now hand down the sentences legislated for in this House eight years ago?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the scourge of knife crime and the need for tough sentences. Although sentencing in an individual case is a matter for our independent judiciary, which is able to consider the specific circumstances of individual cases, in legislating on this issue Parliament was clear about its seriousness. That is reflected in average sentences for all types of knife crime, which are up from 6.5 months in 2010 to 8.1 months in 2020. In addition, 87% of those committing repeat offences were given a custodial sentence, including suspended sentences, which are a custodial sentence.

Alison Thewliss Portrait Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have a number of constituents whose asylum appeals were allowed by courts and tribunals service, but have now been thrust into limbo while the case goes back to the Home Office for approval. What conversations have Ministers had with their Home Office colleagues on clearing the backlog that is preventing my constituents from getting on with their lives?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am always happy to look at individual cases to see if there are specific issues causing a delay. Broadly speaking, I work with colleagues at the Home Office and the Solicitor General’s office to see what we can do to ensure that any delays in the process are smoothed out, so that people do not have to wait for their day in court.

Sheryll Murray Portrait Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

T9. What review, if any, has the Department carried out to ensure that when courts extend bail, they ensure that the police are dealing with their investigations diligently and expeditiously?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend raises an important point for her constituents. I must stress that the independence of the judiciary is fundamental to the rule of law and the running of the justice system. Therefore, the Department has not and will not conduct a review into how the judiciary undertakes its functions in individual cases. However, I can reassure her that the judiciary ensures that the relevant agencies that it works with undertake their functions smoothly and effectively.

Ian Lavery Portrait Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Is it not the case that last-minute cancellations in magistrates courts are largely caused by the inability to recruit and retain legal advisers, who are paid a lot less than other Government legal advisers? What steps will the Minister take to ensure an increase in wages and better terms and conditions for those legal advisers? Will he sit down with the PCS Union to try to resolve this intolerable situation?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We look carefully at why all cases are vacated; in fact, the biggest cause of vacation is often the non-availability of prosecution or defence counsel, not of legal executives.

Peter Bottomley Portrait Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

May I put it to Ministers that the nine-month wait for granting simple probate is unfair on people trying to sell their parents’ home? I failed to get the probate service to work, and I have a constituent who has written to the Prime Minister. Will Ministers please sort it out?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The time taken once all required documents are received is between six and nine weeks. We always advise that no one should take a decision on the sale of a property until probate is granted, but I can reassure my hon. Friend that despite a significant increase in applications, the service is recruiting and training up more than 100 new caseworkers to ensure that it delivers the service that my hon. Friend wants, as do I.

Kate Hollern Portrait Kate Hollern (Blackburn) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Last month the United Nations called for an urgent Government review of sentences of imprisonment for public protection. Will the Secretary of State listen to the UN? Can he explain why the number of people with an IPP sentence recalled to prison without committing any further offence has soared in recent years?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I can confirm that the Lord Chancellor and I—and us all—are very conscious of the difficulties around IPP sentences, which would not be introduced today. We abolished them, as the hon. Lady knows, but there are people in prison who have been recalled or not released by the parole board because they have not been considered safe for release. Our objective is to help to manage people towards safe release into the community. To that end, our recently announced action plan is central.

Mark Eastwood Portrait Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The rehabilitation of offenders is so important in reducing the chances of them committing crime once released from prison, especially if they can get back into work. Could the Minister outline any schemes that help to give offenders the skills they need, and how they can access companies that are willing to give them a second chance in life?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon Friend is so right. In topical questions, I do not have the time to start to unpack all the different things I would like say, so I will not. Suffice it to say that brilliant companies are providing training opportunities.

Sharon Hodgson Portrait Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have written to the Secretary of State about the tragic case of my young constituent Gregg McGuire. He has agreed to meet with me and I am very grateful. Does his Department have any plans to reassess the current rules which mean that victims’ families are unable to appeal sentences for those convicted of causing death by careless driving?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I know she is meeting the Secretary of State to discuss this matter and I do not want to pre-empt that meeting. If she wishes, I am very happy to join that meeting with her, or even to meet her separately to talk about this issue if she feels that would be helpful.

Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Mr Speaker, you will not believe this, but it is almost six months since I finally secured a meeting with the Justice Minister and the Health Minister, after six cancellations, about what happened to section 4 of my Civil Partnerships, Marriages and Deaths (Registration etc) Act 2019, which empowers coroners to investigate stillbirths. I was assured that the law, passed by this House in February 2019 and with a consultation that closed in June 2019, would be published imminently and progress would be made, but nothing has happened. Is it ever going to happen?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Yes, it will. Both the Health Minister and I are pushing this as fast as we possibly can.

Gregory Campbell Portrait Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The scale of the illegal drugs problem in prisons was such that five years ago the Government introduced a programme that cost £100 million. Has the problem got worse or improved in the time since?

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are seeing progress. It is a combined approach of drug recovery wings and incentivised subsidised free living, and ensuring that security is able to stop drugs getting into prison through things like x-ray body scanners, which we have deployed in many prisons.

Rob Butler Portrait Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is perhaps unfortunate that many members of the public and much of the media only take an interest in prisons when there is an escape, but that is, thankfully, very rare. Will my right hon. Friend join me in hoping to now see a calm and measured public debate about the role of prisons, not least working out ways to improve rehabilitation, which ultimately protects the public.

Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend is exactly right. He has a long history with this issue since before he reached this House. It is, ultimately, all about rehabilitation, reducing reoffending and helping to keep the public safe.

Joanna Cherry Portrait Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Over 10,000 women have signed a public letter to the Prime Minister asking him to take action against the escalating campaign of threats and intimidation against women who stand up for women’s rights. Many of these women are particularly concerned that the institutions supposed to protect them are failing to do so, including the criminal justice system. Will the Minister with responsibility for victims be good enough to meet me and representatives of those who organised the letter to discuss this important issue?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am always happy to meet the hon. and learned Lady.

Robert Neill Portrait Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The reputation of our justice system depends on the independence, integrity and professionalism of our judges. At the end of this month, the right hon. Lord Burnett of Maldon will retire as Lord Chief Justice, to be succeeded by Dame Susan Carr, who will be the first ever female Lord Chief Justice. Will the Minister place on the record in this House his appreciation, and all our appreciation, of Lord Burnett for the exceptional leadership he has shown to the judiciary throughout his term in office?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I know the Lord Chief Justice and I am very happy, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government and all those on the Government Front Bench, to do exactly as my hon. Friend says: to pay tribute to Lord Burnett’s exemplary period as Lord Chief Justice.

Kim Johnson Portrait Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I would like to pay tribute to the campaigners who challenged joint enterprise. As a result, the Crown Prosecution Service has now committed to monitor who is prosecuted. I welcome the report at the end of this month, but will the Minister commit to an audit of all joint enterprise convictions, particularly as more black people are disproportionately impacted?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I can commit to wait until we have seen what the work being done by the CPS uncovers. Once we have data, we can then have a rational discussion on the next steps.

Mary Kelly Foy Portrait Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Is the Minister aware of the prevalence of the unfounded and unscientific concept of parental alienation within our family courts? It is causing suffering and, in some cases, violence against women and girls. What steps is the Department taking to ensure that the courts recognise the harm of this discredited concept?

Mike Freer Portrait Mike Freer
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Department is well aware of the concerns, which is why the matter is currently under review. The results of that review, including publication of all the data and research behind the outcomes, will be published later this year.

Offshore Wind Contracts

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
12:35
Ed Miliband Portrait Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab) (Urgent Question)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero if she will make a statement on the implications for offshore wind of contracts for difference allocation round 5.

Graham Stuart Portrait The Minister for Energy Security and Net Zero (Graham Stuart)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The first annual contracts for difference auction—the first that we have ever done—was completed last week and delivered a total of 3.7 GW of renewable electricity, with contracts going to a record number of projects. The auction delivered significant quantities of new solar and onshore wind generation, as well as supporting 11 new tidal stream projects and, for the first time, geothermal projects. It was a competitive auction, set against a backdrop of highly challenging macroeconomic conditions that have impacted the sector globally. Given that this was our first annual round, it was to be expected that it would have a lower capacity than the previous biennial rounds, and, because last year’s round was the first for three years, a higher annual element than that record round.

The Government remain committed to offshore and floating offshore wind projects, and this round provides valuable learning for subsequent auctions. Work has already started on allocation round 6, incorporating the results of the recent round, and we look forward to a strong pipeline of technologies being able to participate. The move to annual auctions means that allocation round 6 will open in just six months’ time, in March 2024, which means that there could be minimal or indeed no delay in the deployment of new capacity through that round.

The Government also remain committed to our target of decarbonising the power system by 2035 and our ambitions for 50 GW of offshore wind, including up to 5 GW of floating offshore wind. Our trajectory for meeting these aims, as well as our legally binding carbon budget 6 targets, is not linear. The outcome for one technology in one auction does not prevent us from reaching those goals.

Ed Miliband Portrait Edward Miliband
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

What a load of nonsense. No wonder the Secretary of State is in hiding.

This auction is an energy security disaster for Britain, and an act of economic self- harm on the part of the Government. No new offshore wind projects means that families’ energy bills will £2 billion higher and our energy security will be weakened. Worst of all, this was totally avoidable. Ministers were warned again and again about the impacts of higher inflation—in a letter from RenewableUK in March, and again in July—and offshore wind is so much cheaper than gas that they could have raised the price in the auction and it would still have saved billions of pounds for families, but they refused to listen.

First, will the Minister tell us why the Government ignored those repeated warnings? Secondly, he said on Friday that every country was in the same boat, but that is just wrong. Ireland listened to industry and adjusted its price, and had a successful auction in March 2023. Why did the Government not learn that lesson? Thirdly, is not the terrible truth that this episode reveals a much deeper flaw in their approach? For month after month this summer, they claimed that the answer to our energy crisis was more oil and gas, and this is the result. We will now be more dependent on expensive, insecure fossil fuels. We will be more exposed to the whims of petrostates and dictators. Every wind farm that we fail to build makes us more exposed to dictators like Putin, and he knows it.

Bills higher, security worse, jobs lost, climate failure—the Government have trashed offshore wind, the crown jewels of our energy system, raising bills, just as they trashed onshore wind by banning it, raising bills, and just as they trashed home insulation, raising bills. We have seen 13 years of failed energy policy, and all this fiasco shows is that the Conservatives are, quite simply, a party unfit to govern.

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I was pleased to see the other day that the rumours of the right hon. Gentleman no longer being in his position were not true. It is perhaps understandable in that context that he is so passionate about this highly successful round that has seen 3.7 GW on an annualised basis. I think that is a record round. He was a member of the previous Labour Government who left this country with 6.7% of its electricity coming from renewables. In the first quarter of this year, 48% of our electricity was from renewables. It was this Government, with our contracts for difference system, who transformed the economics of offshore wind. We have 77 GW of offshore wind in the pipeline—more than enough. We have 7.5—[Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman understandably, given the weakness of his arguments, wants to heckle at all times, knowing how easy it is to dismantle them. He asks me where that capacity is, and I can tell him that 7.5 GW is currently under construction.

As ever, the right hon. Gentleman fails to be on the side of consumers. We moved to an annualised auction precisely to ensure that we could learn the lessons from each round, add them to our industry insight and ensure that we could move forward. The projects take multiple years to be developed, and none of them has disappeared. I predict that, moving on from the triumph of 3.7 GW of renewables, which came through successfully on Friday, allocation round 6 will be more successful still. We will continue to build our reputation as the country that has cut emissions more than any other major economy and that has transformed our electricity generation. He mentioned insulation—how he has the gall, I do not know. We have moved from 14% of homes being properly insulated when he left power to over 50% by the end of this year.

Selaine Saxby Portrait Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for his engagement with this process, particularly with the new technology of floating offshore wind. Three floating offshore wind projects were due to bid in allocation round 5 but none did, due to the low administrative strike price. As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for the Celtic sea, I have repeatedly been told that these projects are part of our future energy supply. Can he outline what steps he is taking to ensure that these projects will float in allocation round 6 and to give confidence to developers in the region?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend, who is an absolute champion of floating wind and the economic opportunities it offers for her area and the rest of the UK. I was delighted to speak to her last week and meet her yesterday, and I pay tribute to her efforts. We have the largest floating wind pipeline in the world, based on confirmed seabed exclusivity arrangements. We have around 25 GW already identified, including through the ScotWind leasing round and innovation and targeted oil and gas—INTOG—processes. As she, as a great champion, knows, the Crown Estate is moving forward with its leasing round 5 for up to 4 GW of capacity in the Celtic sea this year. We have been the world leader on floating energy and we are going to stay the world leader. Thanks to the efforts of my hon. Friend, I know that we will have support across the House.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

Dave Doogan Portrait Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister failed to point out that 3.7 GW is scarcely half of what was achieved in auction round 5. He also failed to mention, when he was heralding onshore wind, that 90% of that will be found in Scotland. Since 2014, the four auction rounds have yielded 1 GW, 2.5 GW, 5 GW and 7 GW, so a nil return is an utter catastrophe.

The critical need for massive investment in offshore is patently obvious for bills and for the climate, yet this ambition has been thwarted by an incompetent previous Secretary of State and by the Treasury, which knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Can the Minister assure us that the Department will get round the table with industry as a matter of urgency to try to repair this damage? Industry needs a strike price that reflects the not-mutually-exclusive goals of lower bills, net zero, and jobs and investment in Scotland and elsewhere. Can he confirm whether a recovery group for auction round 5 will be convened by him or the Secretary of State to try to get this catastrophe resolved? And where is she?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman and his party never fail to trash this country—[Interruption.] He can heckle all he wishes. I will be meeting industry representatives this afternoon and, as I have said, we will be announcing in two months’ time the price ceiling for the next round—[Interruption.] I am getting heckling, not least from His Majesty’s Opposition, who left us in that parlous situation. We are the world leader in so many of these technologies and we are going to continue to be. If the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) were to recognise the need to attract investment to this country and not talk it down, he might find that Scottish jobs would be even stronger in the pipeline than they are already.

Desmond Swayne Portrait Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

If any, how much of the completed wind capacity still requires connection to the national grid?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Until wind capacity is constructed, it is not normally connected to the grid. That which has not been connected to the grid will need to be connected to the grid.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the Chair of the Select Committee on Energy Security and Net Zero.

Angus Brendan MacNeil Portrait Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Ind)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The boom and bust of this fiasco will inevitably have knock-ons for the supply chain. How concerned is the Minister about that? Also, how concerned is he about projects that were built on CfD securities but have not invoked the contracts and are now literally raking in the windfall of that act?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do not quite follow the second part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, but I am happy to write to him on that topic.

Ian Liddell-Grainger Portrait Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

West Somerset, as the Minister knows, is ideal for offshore wind. I am interested to know why people did not bid in this round. What were their reasons? What can the Government do to learn the lessons of this round so that people like my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) can make sure that people are bidding in the next round?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We typically set out the key auction parameters in November, and those include the ceiling of what we will pay for particular technologies. We do that based on our analysis of supply chain costs, and we also commission external analysis. The most important data of all comes from individual auction rounds, and it is on that basis that we set the price parameters. The industry warned us, as it does every year, that it wants us to pay more. We always have to make a judgment call between making sure that we minimise—[Interruption.] It would be so much easier to give my answer, Mr Speaker, if the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) would stop—

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Order. I think that, as a man who was always happy to heckle from the Back Benches, the Minister deserves a little bit himself.

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We set the prices, and we immediately learn from each auction. One of the reasons for having an annual auction is that we can quickly adjust and, as I said, projects can then come into the next round with minimal delay.

Lloyd Russell-Moyle Portrait Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The wind farm off Brighton has probably become as iconic as the pier itself, but the reality is that the Government’s failure will delay the construction of more of these beautiful installations around our coast. Is this failure not also a failure of the market-based private investment system that this Government are determined to pursue, rather than a publicly owned and co-ordinated building programme that can work alongside private investment so that we no longer have this failure where nobody bids?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for revealing the true face of where the Labour party is going. We can go back to the days when we had hardly any renewables, and we can allow Great British Energy, or whatever Labour is going to call its creature, to squeeze out private investment and destroy the most successful renewables market in Europe, and to destroy this Government’s progress on tackling the parlous position left behind by the right hon. Member for Doncaster North and his friends. We will continue to be the world leader in cutting emissions, but not if we move to the state-run, left-wing obsessions of colleagues like the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle).

Peter Aldous Portrait Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Offshore wind plays, and will continue to play, a key strategic role in enhancing energy security, achieving net zero and revitalising coastal communities such as Lowestoft. To get back on track, can my right hon. Friend confirm that the criteria applying to round 6 will take account of current economic realities, that appropriate fiscal measures are being considered ahead of the autumn statement and that specific focus will be given to enhancing local supply chains?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend, who has been such a consistent champion not only for the power of renewables to meet our environmental challenges but for the economic benefits that come from them. He is absolutely right that the nature of the CfD system is that it learns from the previous auction round, which is the most real data of all, and uses that learning to inform the next round. That is why I am confident that, just as we had a success with 3.7 GW on Friday, AR6 promises to be more successful still.

Caroline Lucas Portrait Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I congratulate the Minister on turning complacency and chutzpah into a new art form. The ineptitude of Tory Ministers means that this latest CfD round saw the smallest auction return since 2015—a failing that was entirely avoidable. How will he ensure that the UK delivers the 35 GW of new offshore wind capacity that is needed in just six years? Why did Ministers yet again fail to heed the warnings from industry and experts in advance?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We have to set the parameters based on the best information we have. As I say, one reason for moving to an annual round is to allow us quickly to learn the lessons of each round. We did not get the wind on this occasion, which I regret, and we will put the real-world prices and learnings from that into the next round. That is the system we have, because we are always trying to make sure that we get the parameters right so that we balance the need to generate additional green energy with the cost to the taxpayer. Understandably, given their carelessness with the public finances and with consumers, the Opposition do not seem to care about that. My job is to balance it, ensuring that we get the generation, and we have 77 GW in the pipeline. We are in position and on track to meet our ambitions, which lead Europe—not that we would know that to listen to the hon. Lady.

Cherilyn Mackrory Portrait Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for including geothermal projects in allocation round 5, as that is very welcome. However, I echo everything my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) says about the Celtic sea projects. What will we do differently in round 6? What advice would he give to those in the supply chains, specifically ports, that are trying to submit applications for the FLOWMIS—floating offshore wind manufacturing investment scheme—funding? What conversations has he had about grid capacity, to ensure that all of this eventually runs smoothly?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

As ever, my hon. Friend is well-informed. We are working on all those fronts. FLOWMIS applications closed just two weeks ago, and we are working flat out to analyse them. I hope that by the end of the year we will have shortlisted to the primary list and those schemes will move forward to due diligence, as we take forward not only our floating wind deployment, but the supply chain in the south-west, Wales, Scotland and around the rest of the UK. We are working on all those fronts and are determined to do that. As she rightly highlights, seeing our first geothermal projects come through the CfD is fantastic, as are the 11 tidal projects. I pay tribute to all colleagues who have worked so hard to promote tidal energy and make sure that we continue to be a world leader in that as well.

Olivia Blake Portrait Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

This is an embarrassment for the Government and shows that we are falling further and further behind in the race for green jobs internationally. We have the lowest growth in these industries among the eight biggest economies. Should the Government not be focusing much more on broadening and increasing the capacity of offshore wind, rather than not listening to industry and making fatal errors?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

If the Labour party is not nationalising or creating some state-owned behemoth, it wants just to hurl money in the direction of business. Our judgment is to balance those things and I am pleased to say that we have been successful; we have the largest offshore wind sector in Europe. This country and this Government, through the CfDs, transformed the economics from the situation we inherited after the right hon. Member for Doncaster North and his colleagues had been in power.

Stephen Crabb Portrait Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Delivering on the floating offshore wind project in the Celtic sea is vital for our energy security and decarbonisation. Does the Minister agree that we now need to bolster confidence in this emerging industry? There are two things he can do. Does he agree that a successful allocation of FLOWMIS money to the south Wales ports in order to get this industry moving is vital? Does he also agree that we need to ensure that the Crown Estate’s leasing round at the end of the year is done successfully, but with more than 4 GW of visibility, in order to send a strong market signal to the industry to invest?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

My right hon. Friend is also someone who, through thick and thin, promotes that industry and sees the opportunity it offers Wales. He makes a special bid for the Welsh ports, as I would expect him to do, but he will understand that I can make no comment on that. I entirely agree with him on the importance of the Crown Estate round. Suffice it to say that across Government we have been working flat out, with his and other colleagues’ support, to support the Crown Estate to ensure that we maximise the opportunity in the Celtic sea.

Wera Hobhouse Portrait Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Government’s obsession with oil and gas has left us in this mess. The Department has prioritised new oil and gas licences over support for wind power, which flies in the face of our climate change commitments and our responsibilities to UK citizens—our constituents—to keep energy prices low. Oil and gas will always be more expensive than wind energy. When will the Minister fill the gap of 5 GW of offshore wind that we have now missed out on, which would have saved consumers £2 billion a year? I am not talking about the sixth auction round—I am talking about the fifth one, where we have missed out now.

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Lady is completely mistaken. We are working flat out both to reduce demand for fossil fuels in this country and to build up our renewables. I would hope she would celebrate the fact that we have the largest offshore wind sector in Europe.

Mick Whitley Portrait Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Government have long been warned that their focus on CfDs as the primary mechanism for financing new renewables risks undermining investor confidence in infrastructure assets with long lifespans but significant up-front capital costs, such as nuclear and tidal range generation. Following the Government’s decision to employ a regulated asset base model to support the development of new nuclear, will the Minister now commit to looking urgently at the optimum financial model for new tidal range projects, which could make a crucial contribution to the future UK energy mix?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The CfD scheme is among the most successful, if not the most successful, of its sort in the world. We always look at ways in which we can improve it. We are looking at bringing in non-price factors as we finesse it, but the Opposition party’s idea of some state-run enterprise, squeezing out private investment, would destroy the opportunities going forward. We need at least another £100 billion to be invested by 2030 and if the Labour party ever did threaten to come into power, it would put all that at risk.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

On Teesside, we have been promised thousands of jobs in the offshore wind industry, but investors are getting a little nervous as a direct result of Government failures to provide the right business environment. What will the Minister do to get the business environment right to deliver the jobs we have been promised, which are being put in jeopardy by Government failures?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are getting that balance right and we will continue to do so. Making sure that we look after the consumer is always my guiding light, and we balance that with getting the generation we need. We have seen companies such as SeAH investing in Teesside and Sumitomo looking at investing in Scotland—

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

They are getting nervous—

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As the hon. Gentleman decries this and talks both the area and the nation down, he then tells me that investors are getting nervous. If he were to champion all the successes we have had instead of decrying them, he might find that he would give investors even more confidence still.

Sammy Wilson Portrait Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do not agree with the policy that the Minister pursues. His net zero policy is disastrous and has been costly in terms of electricity prices and future planning. However, I feel some sympathy for him today. He is being criticised by those who have highlighted high energy prices for not offering inflated prices to the wind industry, which claims that producing wind energy is getting cheaper but of course wants higher prices. As it was not offered that, it would not bid in the auction. Is the real reason for this not that for the first time he has refused to allow those who bid to walk away from their CfD agreements, to price electricity at whatever price they want and therefore to have inflated profits? Does that not indicate to him that the wind industry knows it cannot produce electricity cheaply and wants the system balanced in its favour?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The right hon. Gentleman and I do not see eye to eye on net zero or on the economic benefits of the wind industry. It does offer cost-effectiveness. It has been amazing to see how as it is scaled, it has been able to bring the price down. It was not obvious when we went out into the North sea that we would be able to bring the price crashing down, yet this country led the world in doing that. If he looks at the numbers, I hope he will find that the whole of this House can agree on one thing: offshore wind is an economic way of producing energy, and one that all of us should support.

Beth Winter Portrait Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Last week, the think-tank Common Wealth made the critical point:

“Reliance on market coordination leaves the transition vulnerable to the demands of private capital”.

It is abundantly clear that private capital cannot deliver what is urgently required to stem the climate crisis. In Wales, the Welsh Government know that, which is why, over the summer, they launched the community-owned renewable energy company, Ynni Cymru. Does the Minister agree that that is what is required, and what action is he taking to address this?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Lady for pulling back the veil on Labour’s real policy, which is that it hates private capital, it hates private investment and it would destroy the phenomenal success of this country in generating that. [Interruption.] The Front Benchers can heckle all they like, but that is what their Back Benchers want. That is the policy that threatens the British people and threatens our path to net zero. We must make sure that people such as the hon. Lady never have power in this country.

Joanna Cherry Portrait Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Scottish Renewables has said that the results are a major blow to the renewables sector in Scotland and should serve as an indication that urgent reform is needed. Scottish Renewables, not a political party but part of the industry, has also said that these disastrous results are bad for Scotland’s energy supply chain, which desperately needs a steady stream of projects to make its own investments in skilling up and in new technology. Will the Minister acknowledge that his and his Department’s failure to listen to warnings from the industry is holding back Scotland’s renewable sector?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. and learned Lady for her question. Industry always asks to be paid more money. Our job is to make the right judgment call on getting the balance right.

Hywel Williams Portrait Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I saw in the newspapers yesterday that astronomers have discovered a water-covered planet in a far away galaxy. I have to disappoint these excited scientists that, from his answers today, the Minister appears to have got there before them. [Interruption.] On another planet, yes.

Seriously though, this setback to the Erebus project in south-west Wales is deeply disappointing. It was the first of its kind in Wales and was supposed to pave the way to a developing industry. I hope the Minister can reassure me that he is taking steps to make sure that, in AR6, projects such as Erebus are enabled to compete successfully and to lead the way for this industry in Wales.

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman, not least for his attempt at a gag. I can tell him that what he says is the whole basis of the system—that it learns from each round. The most real economic data that we get is from an auction round. Moving to annual rounds, there will be ebb and flow as the right balance is sought between getting the generation that we require, set against our extremely ambitious deadlines, and not paying too much. That is the balance that we strike. We have 3.7 GW and I imagine that we will do even better next time.

Alistair Carmichael Portrait Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I feel as if I am almost taking my life in my hands, but I do want to commend the Minister for one small piece of good news in this round, which is in relation to the development of marine renewables. The success of the auction for tidal stream development illustrates what would be possible for wave power if it were to be given the same opportunity in AR6. But for tidal stream, does the Minister agree that what is now needed is the 1 GW target for deployment? Will he work with me and other people in the House with an interest in this and the marine renewables sector itself to deliver that ahead of AR6?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

May I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman? I met him in his constituency when I visited the European Marine Energy Centre and saw for myself some of the projects in the water. I am personally determined to ensure that tidal stream continues to grow. We maintain our global leadership, with a very high percentage UK supply chain as a further positive to it. He tempts me to get ahead of myself on policy, but I cannot do that. However, what we are doing and what our dedicated pot this year did is further strengthen that so that we can get in a position where that might be a realistic policy position to take.

Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Even with a higher price, offshore wind would help to slash bills. When the Minister saw the Irish Government recognise inflation, up the price and proceed to a successful auction, what discussions did he have with the industry and with Treasury colleagues about the price to be set?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, which is a good one. Obviously, we did look at whether intervention, given that prices continue to change after they are set, was the right thing to do. We think that the CfD mechanism—the way that it is operated—is sound and that the best thing to do is to allow that to pass for the year. One reason for having the annual auction was precisely to allow us quickly to adjust, and, as I say, as soon as November, we will be setting the parameters for the next year.

Richard Foord Portrait Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Last November, the Government paid up to £700 million to China General Nuclear Corporation to buy out China’s state-owned nuclear power enterprise from Sizewell C, and we spent the best part of 2022 freeing ourselves from our reliance on Russian oil and gas. Given the failure of this Government to sell offshore wind projects in the latest round, can the Minister please comment on how energy independence from authoritarian states was served by this inability to run an auction?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

We are now running these auctions every year, and every year, we will be seeking to get the generation that we require at the lowest possible cost to the consumer. I make no apology for doing that. The fact that we have the most successful system, not only in Europe, but globally, is something that should be applauded and recognised.

Jonathan Edwards Portrait Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Windsor report last month provides a sobering analysis about the scale of new electricity transmission infrastructure required to serve increased renewable generation and consumer demand in a very short space of time. However, as the report finds, there is considerable resistance locally to pylon development, as we are finding out in my constituency. Competence for such development is with the Welsh Government, but will the Minister pull together a working group of Ministers from across the UK and experts to consider the Windsor report, and in particular the advantages of cable ploughing technology, which would underground those cables at a comparable cost to overhead pylons without the visual damage?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his constructive and effective question. He is absolutely right to highlight the challenges of making sure that we have the right transmission and connection infrastructure to facilitate offshore wind. We have to do that in a way that minimises negative impacts on communities, that rewards them for hosting it, and that looks at new technologies and innovations, just as we do in other areas, in order to facilitate that effective connection with minimal negative impact on communities that host.

Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

In light of the disappointing results of the CfD AR5 auction and given that I am always trying to be constructive in my contributions in this House, will Government revisit the exclusion of Northern Ireland renewable projects from the scheme, especially in light of the significant increase in onshore wind and tidal stream projects supported by the AR5? Northern Ireland is perfectly positioned for onshore wind and tidal stream to make a major contribution to energy security and net zero from AR6 and beyond. Will the Minister commit to enable Northern Ireland to be part of AR6?

Graham Stuart Portrait Graham Stuart
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I suggest that it is the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues who need to commit to facilitating that in Northern Ireland. Energy is devolved and it is up to them to get the devolved Assembly up and running. If they get devolved government going in Northern Ireland, they will unleash these opportunities. It is not for this Department, which is not responsible for energy in Northern Ireland.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That completes the urgent question.

Points of Order

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
13:07
Mary Kelly Foy Portrait Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. St Leonard’s in my constituency is one of the schools affected by reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete. Last week, we received a ministerial statement from the Secretary of State for Education, but, this week, despite RAAC still being an issue, we have heard nothing from the Secretary of State or a Minister. The issue may be yesterday’s news to some, but it is a very real issue for my constituents, many of whom have written to me to express their anger and anxiety about this avoidable crisis. May I please seek your guidance, Mr Speaker, as to how we can implore the Secretary of State to come back to the House this week—preferably tomorrow when it is well attended— and update us on what her Department is doing?

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

First, I thank the hon. Member for notice of her point of order. As she says, the Secretary of State did make a statement on the subject last week. I have had no notice from Ministers that they intend to make a further statement on this matter this week. However, I am sure that Ministers on the Treasury Bench will have heard her point of order, and I know that Members would like an update before the House goes off again.

Daisy Cooper Portrait Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I should say that this point of order comes with a trigger warning. Today BBC News, The Times and others carry shocking reports that female surgeons are sexually harassed, assaulted and in some cases raped by colleagues, and some of the sexual assaults take place in operating theatres while female surgeons perform surgery on anaesthetised patients. The House will also be aware that on 23 May this year it was reported that more than 35,000 incidents of sexual misconduct or sexual violence were recorded on NHS premises in England between 2017 and 2022.

Those reports are just as serious as some of the revelations about sexual misconduct in the Metropolitan police, which rightly led to the creation of the Casey review of the standards of behaviour and internal culture of the Met. But when revelations are repeatedly made about the scale of the same problem in the NHS, they are met with Government inaction. I would be grateful if you could confirm whether the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care intends to make a statement to the House on today’s shocking revelations, or whether he intends to announce an independent inquiry so that we can expose the scale of sexual misconduct in the NHS and put an end to that horrific practice and culture of silence.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the hon. Member for giving me notice of the point of order. I have had no indication from Ministers that they intend to make a statement on this important matter, but I am sure that the Government Front Bench will have heard the point of order. If not, I am sure the hon. Lady will pursue it through other means, and there will be opportunities to do so before the House rises.

Electricity Supply (Vulnerable Customers)

A Ten Minute Rule Bill is a First Reading of a Private Members Bill, but with the sponsor permitted to make a ten minute speech outlining the reasons for the proposed legislation.

There is little chance of the Bill proceeding further unless there is unanimous consent for the Bill or the Government elects to support the Bill directly.

For more information see: Ten Minute Bills

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23)
13:11
Sam Tarry Portrait Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require Ofgem to amend the conditions of an electricity supply licence in relation to vulnerable customers; to require Ofgem to establish a fund for the purpose of rectifying dangerous electrical faults for vulnerable customers; to require energy supply companies to inform vulnerable customers about the services available to customers on the Priority Services Register; and for connected purposes.

I rise to propose a Bill that would address a critical issue in our energy sector. The Bill aims to require Ofgem to revise the terms of electricity supply licences with a much-needed focus on vulnerable customers. Specifically, it calls for the creation of a fund by Ofgem to rectify dangerous electrical faults affecting vulnerable customers. Additionally, it would mandate energy supply companies to inform vulnerable customers about their entitlements under the Priority Services Register and related matters.

As the UK moves towards achieving net zero emissions, our homes are undergoing a transformation in how they use energy. We are transitioning away from gas and increasingly adopting cleaner energy systems. Currently, 74% of homes rely on gas boilers for heating, but by 2035, up to 47% of homes could depend on electrically powered technologies such as heat pumps. The shift to electricity is expected to continue in the years ahead. In this transition, it is imperative that we prioritise the safety and well-being of our vulnerable citizens.

Last year in England alone, there were a staggering 2,695 fires caused by home electrical installations, an average of seven fires a day. Those incidents encompassed issues related to electrical distribution within homes and heating systems. Despite support from organisations such as Electrical Safety First, the Gas Safe Charity, the Chartered Institute of Housing, the National Home Improvement Council and National Energy Action, the Priority Services Register maintained by energy suppliers has fallen short in addressing critical electrical safety concerns for the most vulnerable in our society.

The PSR, administered by Ofgem, serves as a support system for vulnerable energy customers, offered voluntarily by suppliers. It provides assistance tailored to specific requirements. While the types of help can vary among suppliers, they typically include free gas safety checks for customers on means-tested benefits living with children under five years old, those receiving pensions and those who are disabled or chronically ill. That invaluable service has undoubtedly saved lives, and the Bill seeks to extend similar safeguards to the many households across the country using and depending on electricity.

While existing legislation in England, Scotland and Wales mandates electrical safety checks for vulnerable individuals living in the private rented sector, the recent Social Housing (Regulations) Act 2023 has extended these checks to those in the social rented sector, aligning England with Wales and Scotland. However, a significant portion of vulnerable people may still fall through the cracks.

Data from various housing surveys across the UK indicates that in 2021 as many as 10.8 million households could have qualified for the Priority Services Register, marking them as part of a vulnerable household. Furthermore, the elderly population, often eligible for the PSR, predominantly resides in the owner-occupied sector, which lacks mandatory requirements for essential electrical safety protections. The risk of electrical fire fatalities is notably higher for people aged 60 and above, particularly those living alone or in older housing with outdated electrics. This is significantly heightened if they have health conditions such as dementia or Parkinson’s.

Vulnerable people are more susceptible to electrical fires when they lack the financial means to pay for electrical safety checks or are physically unable to respond swiftly in case of a fire. Many of them may reside in substandard housing with outdated electrical systems, potentially in higher-density housing, further increasing the risk of fire spreading to neighbouring properties.

The Bill also addresses the pressing issue of fuel poverty among PSR-registered people. There is a significant overlap between vulnerable individuals on the PSR and those experiencing fuel poverty. The rising cost of living has hit many households hard, but it is incredibly challenging for older and vulnerable groups, particularly regarding energy costs. As of 2022, England alone had 3.26 million households in fuel poverty. In my constituency of Ilford South, 15% of households—more than 6,000 families—are grappling with fuel poverty. Shockingly, cold homes, linked to fuel poverty, contributed to 4,020 excess winter deaths in England and Wales last year: 45 lives lost each day during the winter months. For vulnerable people who already face the difficult choice between heating their homes and having enough to eat, affording electrical system checks is often impossible. That hidden danger compounds the already distressing issue of fuel poverty.

Although the PSR is a voluntary system for energy providers, it includes a requirement for free gas and carbon dioxide checks under Ofgem’s licensing conditions. None the less, concerns have been raised by organisations such as National Energy Action regarding the alarmingly low awareness of available assistance. It is crucial for energy suppliers not only to promote their services, but actively to enrol all eligible people on to the PSR, expanding the reach of these services across the board. In a November 2022 study of eligible PSR customers, Electrical Safety First found that around a quarter of respondents had never checked their electrical installations or were unsure if they had been checked. Some 85% of them supported the idea of the energy sector providing regular electrical checks as a requirement of the PSR, a viewpoint shared by both private and social housing landlords.

Of course, some of the checks may reveal severe and dangerous faults in the electrical systems. The Bill also addresses that concern. It would require energy suppliers, Ofgem and local authorities to have the necessary grant-making capabilities to address those issues. That would ensure that vulnerable people with electrical faults were afforded the same protections as those with gas safety issues.

We have a moral obligation to shield the most vulnerable members of our society from the devastating consequences of fuel poverty and electrical dangers. Today, as the Bill receives its First Reading, we take the first crucial step toward achieving this goal. It would guarantee that, as a statutory minimum, those most susceptible to fuel poverty during this era of rising living costs would receive enhanced electrical safety protections.

We cannot permit millions of people to make the heart-wrenching choice between food, safety, and living in peril. I urge the House to support my Bill today.

Question put and agreed to,

Ordered,

That Sam Tarry, Mike Amesbury, Andrew Western, Olivia Blake, Lloyd Russell-Moyle, Karl Turner, Jim Shannon, Sarah Olney, Chris Loder, Derek Thomas, Sir Peter Bottomley and Alison Thewliss present the Bill.

Sam Tarry accordingly presented the Bill.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 24 November, and to be printed (Bill 365).

Speaker’s Statement

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text
11:49
Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Colleagues, imminently we will come to the motion on the retirement of the Clerk of the House, and I will look to the Leader of the House to move the motion of congratulations to the outgoing Clerk of the House, Sir John Benger. Just before I do so, I would like to place on record a letter to me from Sir John. He writes:

“You notified the House last February of my intention to retire as Clerk of the House to take up a new role next month as Master of St Catharine’s College Cambridge.

I wanted to thank you, Mr Speaker, for your unfailing support both to me personally and to the House of Commons Administration. You care deeply about the institution of Parliament, but also about all of the staff who work here. I want to record your personal contribution to improving the welfare spaces for many of our staff on rotas working unsociable hours in often difficult conditions. I also want to thank you for placing so high a priority on security for all who work in Parliament—you sat in this Chamber during those difficult hours following the murder of PC Keith Palmer, an event I know which affected you deeply.

May I also thank the deputy speakers who have been a pleasure to work with.

The murders of two honourable Members, Sir David Amess, and Jo Cox, caused us all great sadness. I knew Sir David personally—he served on the Health Committee for all of the six years I clerked it, always enthusiastic, never failing to see the absurdity in life, but, like Jo Cox, a tireless champion of his constituents and of the causes he believed in.

Nowadays, every Member has to deal with more than their fair share of abuse and hostility. But I have to say I have found almost all Members to be passionately committed to changing the world for the better and serving their constituents. I will always remember and appreciate that commitment by Members to public service.

I took up my current role in March 2019 and my main objective was to help implement the recommendations made by Dame Laura Cox in her report following the dreadful accounts of bullying and harassment in Parliament. All Dame Laura’s key recommendations have been implemented, and we should celebrate the fact that our Parliament now leads the world in having an independent process to examine such matters. There is more to be done as we all know, and too much unacceptable behaviour still occurs, but I salute those Members and staff who had the courage to help introduce the ICGS.

My first few months were occupied with the fraught challenges of Brexit, in the context of a minority government, and many of us will remember what a difficult parliament that was. But of course, even greater challenges lay around the corner, with the advent of Covid-19, prompting dramatic changes to how we operate. I am so proud of my colleagues for helping this Parliament to lead the world in sitting in hybrid form, transforming procedures, adapting our physical spaces and rapidly introducing the necessary technology, to achieve this in a matter of days, a truly astonishing achievement.

Here in Parliament we have some of the finest public servants—dedicated, professional and at their best when there is a challenge. But it is their friendship and support, as much as their professionalism that I will remember, and for which I will always be grateful.

Yours sincerely,

John.”

I would now like to take this opportunity to say a few words of my own about Sir John. Hon. Members may not realise this, but John is in fact a northerner, having grown up in Stockport. If you want proof of those northern roots, I suggest you say something derogatory about Manchester United. His continued commitment to the north will then become very clear. The team has been left a little in the shadows by Manchester City of late, and he struggles to stomach that.

John left the north, however, to join the House in 1986, having, on the way, read English Literature at St Catharine’s College, trained as a teacher and completed his doctorate in English at Oxford University. His first role in the then Clerk’s Department was as second Clerk on what was then the Trade and Industry Committee. It was there that he first met the Member of Parliament for Warrington North, one Doug Hoyle. That was not to be the last Hoyle he would work with. Indeed, both as Speaker and before that as Chairman of Ways and Means, I have been privileged to have worked alongside John since he was appointed the 51st Clerk of the House.

John has been Clerk through what by anyone’s estimation has been a challenging period. He provided leadership during the pandemic with the same diligence and focus that he applies to everything he turns his hand to, tempered as always with his signature good humour. He has also been at the helm during many occasions when this House has been at the centre of national and international attention, as it was following the death of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II just a year ago. It is a credit to his leadership, and of course to all those who work here and support the House, that through all these turbulent times the House of Commons has shown itself in its very best light.

John should be very proud of the progress he has made in improving the culture and environment in which we all work, following the findings of bullying and harassment by Laura Cox in 2018. He has been a personal champion of work on inclusion and diversity in the House of Commons and a mentor for colleagues in and out of Parliament. I know I speak for all those who work here when I thank him for his dedication to those important areas of work.

I will always be grateful to John for the support and sound guidance he has given me over his past four years as Clerk. John has been a friend as well as Clerk of the House. To know John takes a little bit of understanding; he is always dedicated to the House and will always put the House first, but he is more dedicated to Erskine and May, his two cats, who are of a great age at over 18 years, and nothing will stop him leaving to ensure they are fed and well looked after. John’s other speciality is chicken. If I ever hear him say, “I have got to get home, I must put the chicken in”, I am never quite sure whether it is for the family or for Erskine and May.

I know the House will join me today in thanking Sir John for contributing nearly four decades of exemplary public service. I wish him all the very best in his new role as Master of St Catharine’s College, Cambridge. Their gain is our loss, but we wish him well, and I know the House will continue as he would expect.

Retirement of the Clerk of the House

Tuesday 12th September 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
13:28
Penny Mordaunt Portrait The Leader of the House of Commons (Penny Mordaunt)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move,

That Mr Speaker be requested to convey to Sir John Benger KCB, on his retirement from the office of Clerk of the House, this House’s gratitude for his long and distinguished service, for his wise contribution to the development of the procedure of the House during testing times and in the face of the unprecedented challenge of the pandemic, for his engaged and inclusive leadership and his professionalism in the discharge of his duties as head of the House Administration, and for the courteous and helpful advice always given to individual honourable Members.

It is a real pleasure to move the motion to give the House the opportunity to pay tribute to Sir John, who leaves this place on 30 September to take up the role of master of St Catharine’s College, Cambridge. I am sure that I speak on behalf of the whole House when I say that Sir John has been an outstanding Clerk and has given an incredible level of service to the House of Commons, not just in this Chamber but throughout the House and the estate—a service spanning 37 years.

Sir John has been Clerk to a number of the busiest and most high-profile Select Committees, including Public Accounts, Treasury and Health. He stayed at the latter Committee for six years while it undertook a number of landmark inquiries on tobacco, the pharmaceutical industries and obesity. He has also worked in a number of procedural teams, including the Public Bill Office and the Table Office, as well as being director of service delivery in the department for information services between 2010 and 2015.

Sir John was appointed the 51st Clerk of the House of Commons in February 2019 following the formal approval of Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. In the four years of service since, he has worked with five Leaders of the House: my right hon. Friends the Members for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom), for Central Devon (Mel Stride), for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg) and for Sherwood (Mark Spencer), as well as myself. He knows parliamentary procedure better than almost anyone, and he knows that there is a right and a wrong way to adhere to protocol, but he is also a pragmatist and knows how to help Members navigate procedure when practices need to evolve.

That pragmatism and adaptability were exceedingly valuable as Sir John faced a challenge that none of his predecessors had ever encountered: covid-19 presented incredible difficulties to the business of this House. I think we can now safely say that the House Administration, led by Sir John, rose to meet those challenges with great speed and efficiency. It would have been unthinkable before 2020 but, for the first time, right hon. and hon. Members could make contributions to debates virtually. On 22 April 2020, just a month after the country had locked down, my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley North (Marco Longhi) asked the first remote question during Welsh questions. There were also experiments with a number of voting styles before the pass reader voting system that we have was settled on.

Sir John has given so much of himself to this House. I thank him, on behalf of us all, for his service and for the care that he has shown us all, as evidenced in the letter that you just read out, Mr Speaker. I do not think that I could have thought any more of him, but having learned that he has given a home to two moggies, I hold him in even greater esteem. I wish him all the best in his new career. I commend the motion to the House.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the shadow Leader of the House, whom I welcome to her new position.

13:32
Lucy Powell Portrait Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a real pleasure, as one of my first acts as shadow Leader of the House, to pay tribute to the work of Sir John Benger, who will leave his role as Clerk of the House at the end of the month. I will not take it personally that he is leaving his job only a few days after I started mine. Maybe, given what you said, Mr Speaker, it is because I am a Manchester City fan, but I will discuss that with him offline.

The Leader of the House has rightly paid tribute to Sir John’s long career and the many achievements that he has clocked up over his decades of service to Parliament. Despite not having had the privilege to work much with Sir John directly, I have in my short time in this role heard time and again about his knowledge, generosity and wisdom, which have been invaluable to so many Members.

Sir John’s tenure as Clerk came during a period of extraordinary turbulence for our Parliament. It probably threw up more challenges to the way the House works than any other time in our history. He started with Parliament locked in stalemate, with seemingly no majority on how to deal with the fallout of Brexit. The most obscure parliamentary procedure was dusted off shelves and used in ways it had not been used for decades.

Sir John has always ensured that, no matter how controversial or challenging the debates, he gave fair and impartial advice to Members across the House. As we have heard, covid presented unprecedented challenges for the traditions of how we work. We had to bring our 200-year-old Parliament quickly into the digital age in a matter of hours. Some ways of working were changed for good—perhaps not as many as I would like. I think I asked my first hybrid PMQ in my living room as my children danced in the background—it was a challenging time.

Of course, after the death of Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth, Parliament became a place of national mourning and helped to bring the country together through that difficult time. It was also the epicentre of global interest, with millions tuning into the live feed of Westminster Hall, which does not happen all that often. Parliament and all its staff, under Sir John’s leadership, did our country so proud during that period.

Sir John has also seen many happier events, such as the unveiling of Big Ben after major restoration works—I was amused to find out that the Clerk of the House technically owns Big Ben, as I understand it. He oversaw improvements in welfare facilities, training opportunities and support for House staff, as well as the independent complaints and grievance scheme. Those improvements are rapidly changing the culture in this place and will serve as part of his legacy.

Sir John has worked to move us on to the next stage of restoration and renewal, which will preserve this historic estate into the future. In addition, the Clerk is chief executive officer of the Commons and responsible for around 3,000 staff performing a variety of roles, including, as John himself has described:

“pastry chefs, lawyers, clock winders, security guards, researchers, and even a chaplain and a falconer”.

And if that was not enough, he sits at the Table of the House for at least part of every day, to advise and record decisions.

Those are serious responsibilities, and I am not sure how Sir John has found the time to do them all while maintaining the professionalism, kindness and wisdom for which he is so well known, giving the right advice at the right time, always in confidence. I am sure that colleagues across the House will join me in wishing Sir John the very best at St Catharine’s College, Cambridge. They are lucky to have him. We look forward to welcoming Tom Goldsmith from October.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the Father of the House.

13:36
Peter Bottomley Portrait Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a pleasure to follow the first three speeches—yours, Mr Speaker, and those of the Leader of the House and the shadow Leader of the House.

One distinguished Under Clerk of the Parliaments—otherwise known as the Clerk of the Commons—was John Hatsell. In Orlo Williams’s great book, “The Clerical Organisation of the House of Commons 1661-1850”, Hatsell is described as attracting the confidence of leading politicians

“by his sympathetic understanding, though he was no sycophant of those in power.”

I think that is the right role for the Clerk and for those they lead in the Clerks department.

Sir John drew the attention of a commentator in the Press Gallery three years ago. A Member of a particular party complained that, if everyone had to stay six feet —or two metres—apart, there would not possibly be room for all SNP Members to perch in their usual seats. The commentator wrote:

“The clerk, with the smallest flash of weariness, said most problems could be resolved by ‘common sense and everyone behaving in a grown-up way’. Common sense and grown-up behaviour? We may need to keep an eye on Clerk Benger.”

They added that Sir John was

“a model clerk: circumspect, bookish, fair…in the best sense, a modest public servant.”

I think that that is the kind of reputation that each person joining the Clerks department would wish to have, whether or not they achieve the highest office.

Sir John was, in his academic life, an expert on Martin Marprelate’s tracts, which basically mocked the Church of England. The style is described as

“a heady mixture of nonsense, satire, protest, irony and gossip, combined with pungent wit, full of the language of the street”—

or unparliamentary language. Were Sir John’s predecessor, Sir David Natzler, here, he would say that the tracts were good preparation for the intrigue, deception and vituperation a member of the House of Commons Commission had to get used to in the old days.

Mr Speaker, let me use the words of your predecessor, John Bercow, who said that the Clerk’s department was

“unstinting, selfless, formidable and…quite exceptional.”

He went on to say that a good Clerk is

“Blessed with a brilliant brain, an understated manner, unfailing courtesy, and an absolute and undiluted passion for Parliament”.—[Official Report, 13 February 2019; Vol. 654, c. 921.]

Following his retirement as Clerk, Sir Thomas Erskine May—who, like Sir John, spent time in the Library as well as in the Clerks’ department—went on to become Baron Farnborough of Hampshire, and he held that role for six days before he died, making it the second shortest peerage. I hope that Sir John’s time at St Catharine’s is longer and that, when he gets to Cambridge, he will understand what it is like to be a member of the Denis Thatcher society, married to a person more important than you are. His wife, Professor Susan, is an expert Anglo-Saxonist. I refer those who are interested to her Chadwick memorial lecture in 2017 on uncertain beginnings. I think the Clerk arriving in Cambridge will not be uncertain. As the 40th master of St Catharine’s, I hope he has as good a time as we hope he has had with us, and we thank him for his service.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the SNP spokesperson.

11:59
Deidre Brock Portrait Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate on behalf of the Scottish National party, to add to the tributes paid to Sir John Benger and congratulate him on his new role as master of St Catharine’s College, Cambridge—his alma mater, as you shared with us, Mr Speaker.

Sir John’s departure marks the end of nearly four decades of exceptional service to the House of Commons in various capacities. Only a handful of MPs have served this institution as long as Sir John has. During his four-year tenure as Clerk of the House, Sir John faced a series of unique and unprecedented challenges. Just a year into his tenure, he was tasked with leading the House service’s swift and extremely successful response to the outbreak of covid-19, ensuring the continued and safe operation of Parliament. Those early lockdowns were, as everyone will recall, a very worrying and uncertain time for everyone, and Sir John’s calm, diligent efforts to navigate the House through the pandemic, including the swift implementation of remote and virtual participation, stand out as some of his most significant achievements.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I want to echo the tributes that my hon. Friend and others are paying to John Benger today. During my time as SNP Chief Whip, he was always a source of extremely valuable advice and, while some of the issues we had to deal with were perhaps easier than others, as my hon. Friend alludes to, his professionalism and courtesy shone throughout it all. I am pleased to have the opportunity to say how grateful I am to him for his service and to wish him all the best.

Deidre Brock Portrait Deidre Brock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend for that fitting tribute; I know he worked closely with Sir John over the years.

I also pay great tribute to Sir John for overseeing the establishment of the Independent Expert Panel, to determine complaints of bullying and harassment in relation to MPs, implementing the recommendations in Dame Laura Cox’s report.

Another major project during Sir John’s term has been the ongoing restoration and renewal of the parliamentary estate. The Public Accounts Committee warned:

“there is a real and rising risk that a catastrophic event will destroy the Palace before it is ever repaired and restored.”

The evidence that Sir John gave to the Committee earlier this year should be read carefully by all Members of both Houses, especially those who think that this building is perfect and nothing needs to change.

I have not known Sir John for very long on a personal level, so I will admit that I did pop in to see a senior Clerk to gather some of her insights. She described him as a deeply intelligent man with a sharp sense of humour who has a truly passionate love of football. As we have heard, he is a Man United fan, so I am sure he will be hoping for some improvement after a slightly difficult start to the season.

Colleagues who have worked with Sir John closely remark on his rich, eclectic cultural and intellectual interests. That is one of the qualities, perhaps, that has helped him successfully transition between various different roles in this place—for example, at one point moving from the Commons clerking team to the Commons Library.

Sir John drew inspiration from different fields and sectors to inform his work in Parliament. I am told that he was a keen reader of the Harvard Business Review at a time when that was considered unusual, and he engaged with banks and other such organisations to gain insight into improving customer service for Members. Parliament has certainly benefited from that approach. The “MPs’ Guide to Procedure”, which I know Members and staff find enormously helpful and practical, was an initiative that he led on, as well as introducing simple things such as the buddying system for new MPs, which newcomers found invaluable when attempting to navigate the complexities of this place.

I wish Sir John all the best in his new role and his future endeavours, and I warmly congratulate Tom Goldsmith on his appointment as Sir John’s successor. Tom was most recently Principal Clerk of the Table Office, and he has been with the House service since 1996, so he will bring a vast range of expertise and experience to the job. My colleagues and I very much look forward to working with him.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the former Leader of the House. Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg.

11:59
Jacob Rees-Mogg Portrait Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

One of the great virtues of the Clerks—and particularly of the Under Clerk of the Parliaments—is that whether we are the most junior, most recently elected Member or the Leader of the House, we get the best, cleverest advice confidentially. During that difficult time of the 2017-19 Parliament, which Sir John handled brilliantly, people were going in to seek advice to do completely opposite things. Some wanted to smooth Government business through, and others wanted to obstruct it, and each one of us was given good, professional, thoughtful advice and treated without any difference according to seniority or recent appearance in this House. That is a true mark of a good Clerk and of fairness.

To give an example of the complexity of the issues, one that came up was whether a Humble Address fell at Prorogation or not. The first edition of “Erskine May” says that it does. A subsequent edition of “Erskine May”—about the 12th, I think—says that it does not. After that, nobody mentioned it, because we had not had Humble Addresses for 150 years. The Clerks had to work out which it was and how it was, and advise accordingly. Although this is not the occasion for paying tribute to you, Mr Speaker, because I hope you are going to stay in office for a very long time, it has to be said that you then made the very important statement that you would stick to clerkly advice or give a written reason as to why not, reinforcing the importance and independence of the role, because it is a key constitutional role.

Others have mentioned covid and what Sir John did to ensure that the House sat. He turned the whole House around; it was a really remarkable thing. We went away for the Easter recess having no idea how this House would sit when it came back—none at all. We had no idea whether the technology would possibly work, and yet the Clerk was being told that he had to get Parliament back. It was our democratic requirement that this House should sit and sit safely. That was perhaps easy for some of us to say, because it was the Clerk who had the legal responsibility. We must bear in mind the uncertainty of that time; nobody knew how serious or how dangerous the disease was or what its effect might be, but we knew we had to have Parliament back. As we said to him from time to time, “It is all very well, but you, Sir John”—or Dr Benger, as he was then—“are the one who goes to prison if you get it wrong.” He took that responsibility and ensured that democracy carried on.

He has been an innovator and has introduced things in this House. We have mentioned the ICGS, which he was a great driver behind and which has been hugely to the benefit of the House. He also got rid of the wigs. That came as a great surprise to me. I had always known that the Clerks are some of the cleverest people in the world. We know that whenever we go to see them to ask a question on some procedural point. Their wisdom is phenomenal. I thought that this was because they kept their brains warm by wearing wigs, and that without that warmth, the brainpower would not carry on as it had. But I confess, I turned out to be wrong; their brainpower continues without that warmth.

I should have known what a radical our Clerk really is at heart. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) pointed out, his specialist subject was the Marprelate tracts. One of the things that Marprelate was so against was clerical dress—he ridiculed the clothes worn by the clergy—so it is no surprise that, in a radical act, Sir John simplified the dress of the Clerks. We all wish him enormously well. He has been a model of clerkly wisdom and service to this House.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I call the Mother of the House.

13:49
Baroness Harman Portrait Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I associate myself with everything you said about Sir John, and also what the Leader of the House and the shadow Leader of the House, my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell)—who I welcome to her position—said. I do not intend to repeat everything that everybody has already said, but to warmly and very personally thank Sir John and pay tribute to him.

When somebody has been working in the same field for four decades, they accumulate a huge amount of experience and wisdom, but it can sometimes be the case that they get stuck in the old ways and think things should not change. The great thing about Sir John is that he accumulated all that wisdom and experience, but he was never stuck in the past; he fiercely protected the enduring values of this House, but also showed himself to be an ally of progress and modernisation. I think we all recognise that there is further to go, but he had that remarkable duality of characteristics. He led an absolutely extraordinary team of Clerks; we always need to take the opportunity to say how lucky we know we are to have the Clerks’ advice. It is quite easy to take it for granted, because it is always like that and it has always been like that, but we depend on it so much. I pay tribute to Sir John for his leadership of that Clerks team.

Clearly, Sir John had a brain the size of a planet, but he was never condescending with it: he was always very pleasant, and never pompous. Many people who are that clever cannot resist looking down on those who are not, but he never did that—he was always a pleasure to deal with. I wish him well in his new role at St Catharine’s, and I also hope that he will write his memoirs. As colleagues have said, he has been through an enormous swathe of history from a bird’s-eye point of view, so if he does, I for one will certainly be reading them. Once again, I thank him for his extraordinary service and wish him all the best for the future, and I also wish all the best to his successor.

13:51
William Cash Portrait Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Mr Speaker, I too would like to associate myself with your remarks, and with the tributes paid to Sir John Benger by all other persons in the Chamber. It is always an enormous pleasure to know that the Clerks Department, which is so important to the functioning of this House, is in such safe hands.

I will just refer to one or two incidents that have occurred. My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg) and one or two others referred to what I call the paralysis Parliament between 2017 and 2019, where there was a great deal of fractiousness. Effectively, decisions were taken—sometimes by a coalition, shall we call it, across the Floor of the House—the result of which was that nothing could be done. It was a time of very considerable frustration to many of us, but having such wise Clerks such as Sir John Benger at the front of the ship, guiding us through that period of time, was incredibly important. Of course, we came out of it eventually.

That is as compared with 1986—I am bound to say this, am I not? If I did not, I would regard myself as having walked away from the subject. In 1986, I was told by the Clerks, and also by the Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means, that I was not allowed to even debate the issue of sovereignty. I tabled an amendment to the Single European Act 1987; I have to confess that I was the only person in the House who had an amendment on the subject. By 2020, the situation had changed so much that the sovereignty amendment to the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, section 38 of that Act, went through without any adverse comment, either in this House or in the House of Lords. That is a tribute to the changes that have taken place, and to the guidance and navigation of Sir John Benger and others who allowed those important constitutional changes to take place.

People have spoken eloquently about covid, and I could not agree more. I had not the faintest idea what was going to happen when we all returned to the country, up in Shropshire or wherever it happened to be, and wondered what on earth we were going to do—how on earth were we going to be able to participate? It ran very, very smoothly, and it could only have run so smoothly with the wisdom and judgment of those like Sir John Benger, and Sir John in particular. I also pay tribute to his contribution to the funeral arrangements for Her late Majesty the Queen.

With those thoughts, I simply wish Sir John the very best when he gets to St Catharine’s, Cambridge. When I heard that it was St Catharine’s, I thought for one moment that it might have been St Catherine’s, Oxford, but it was not: it is St Catharine’s, Cambridge. Whichever university he is going to, I wish him the best of luck, and I hope it all works well for him.

13:55
Wendy Chamberlain Portrait Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

Like other speakers, I associate myself with your remarks, Mr Speaker, and those we have heard so far today in recognising Sir John Benger and his departure from the House to St Catharine’s. I was elected in December 2019, and my first engagement with Sir John in that first and last sitting week of 2019 was bleary-eyed and tired, here in the Chamber with other new MPs, being privy to the procedures and processes that we needed to follow. I did my best to listen, but I also believe that an MP is not properly an MP in this place until they have stood up at an oral questions session, started to ask their substantive question, and been told by yourself, Mr Speaker, to say “Question number eight—apologies” and sit back down. We all do our best to pay attention to the Clerk and the guidance he and his team give, but sometimes we do not quite manage it.

We of the 2019 intake had been MPs for such a short period of time before covid took place that we were still getting to grips with the way the processes worked. I can certainly speak for my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) by saying that the communications we had from the House via the Clerk ensured that we were as well equipped as we could possibly be as we came back in a virtual environment. It was a very different environment; it is very good that we are back here in this place, but the amendments and adjustments that were able to be made, including those that we have taken forward, are part of Sir John’s legacy.

Since September 2020, I have acted as the Whip for the Liberal Democrats. The Father of the House mentioned that a previous Clerk had “sympathetic understanding”, and I would certainly say that that has been the case for John in relation to me. He has been sympathetically understanding of my sometimes completely daft questions, treated them with respect, and given me the appropriate advice accordingly. I am hugely grateful for that.

We are reflecting on what has happened since Sir John became Clerk of the House. I have reflected on covid, the work that took place to mark the death of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, and the restoration works that this place requires going forward. However, for me—particularly as a Whip—his longest-lasting legacy will be changing the culture in this place, the things that we do not see. As we recognise that the Clerk’s role is to provide non-political, impartial advice, it behoves us as parliamentarians to think about how we change that culture for the better in much the same way.

13:57
Charles Walker Portrait Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con)
- View Speech - Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is always sad when we say goodbye to a Clerk of the House—exciting when we welcome a new one, but sad when we see a Clerk depart. Sir John has been kind, thoughtful and reflective. This has been a very challenging Parliament, but all Parliaments are challenging, and we would expect the Clerk to rise to that challenge. I will miss him greatly.

People have said that he was wise, and I have benefited from that wisdom on a number of occasions. However, one of his most underappreciated talents was that he did not speak very often and he did not speak very loudly, so when he did speak, he captured the room and people listened. We benefit in our Parliament from the very best Clerks in the world. That is a testament to Sir John’s efforts over his four years leading this place and his team, and to his predecessors. I am sure the next Clerk will deliver a great Parliament and lead a great team.

13:59