Flying Schools

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2023 Westminster Hall

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) for raising this matter and putting on the record so skilfully the perplexing and, in many respects, heartbreaking saga that students are going through.

Although this is not a registered interest, I declare that my son is a trainee pilot. Thankfully he is not in one of the schools that have been mentioned in this debate. He has nearly completed his training. He is currently in the United States of America finishing his night school training for jet aircraft and hopes sometime next year to be a pilot flying the skies around the United Kingdom and Europe. I wish him all the best, because I am immensely proud of him for the job that he has done.

Considering the points that have been raised in the debate, I feel for the parents and the students. The sagas described by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham are personal lives; they are the stories of young kids who dared to dream, who wanted to get their jet licence, who wanted that as their career, and whose mothers and fathers sacrificed everything for them. We heard about parents putting houses on the line and remortgaging to facilitate that for their children, because they believed in them, and then that being cruelly snatched from them. There is no chance that they will get to start again, get a refund, or get picked up and taken on by another school. Their stories are heartbreaking.

I know that the Minister is a passionate man and that he will care about those individual stories. They are the lives of young people. They are the future of our nation’s aviation sector. If we do not put this right, we will suffer consequences down the line—and very quickly. One airline has something like 500 pilot vacancies over the next two years. Those must be filled. Anyone who has recently been at any of our local airports will know of the delays and the lack of crew availability, and the problems that those things cause. We need to fix that now, because we are an island nation that relies on aviation not just for passenger travel but for cargo travel and postal access. As a nation that relies on aviation, we will feel the consequences if the matter is not fixed immediately.

Pilots are necessary to our economy, and the training pipeline put in place by a number of these schools is crucial for economic growth and development. The smaller airfields across the United Kingdom where a number of these pilots initially trained will also feel the impact and could be damaged. A number of private and smaller airfields across Northern Ireland, which have been the incubator for young pilots, are at risk, and it is the same for smaller airlines and airfields across the rest of the United Kingdom.

A number of things need to be done, but it is important to reiterate this point. As a parent who had to pay the deposit for my kid’s training, I could not pay it on a credit card. There was zero protection. It was an eye-watering amount: the first deposit was just shy of £15,000, and in some instances deposits are not refundable. People are really staking a lot on these companies. I remember going around the banks with my son and saying, “Can this young lad get a loan? I believe in him.” No—he was not getting a loan for a pilot’s licence. I took him to inquire about whether he could get a student grant. He is a student—he is doing a degree alongside his pilot’s licence—but no, he could not have a student grant at all, for any part of it. Mummy and daddy would have to pay for that. It is a big decision when you put your house on the line and say, “I’ll remortgage the house to get that person the career that they need.”

As the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham indicated, when training is cruelly snatched from kids in circumstances like this, it not only wrecks their lives, dreams, hopes and aspirations, but it devastates their parents. The fact that the money paid in for the student cannot be protected needs to be fixed. There are no refunds for an aviation course after the first £10,000. As I said, the initial payments are eye-watering—and those are just the fees. My son trained at Gatwick for the first nine months, so he had to live in London. He had to pay fees, living costs and all the rest of it. Other kids across the United Kingdom are faced with the same thing: they have to come down to Gatwick or one of the other big airports, live near it and pay their fees and living costs. They get zero support, whereas other students get reduced rates, railcards and all sorts of other things. Trainee pilots do not benefit from any of that, and they have to pay for food and board on top of all those fees. Banks will not give a loan without an asset being put up.

A number of asks have been outlined, but I want to ask the Government to look at incorporating trainee pilots into the student loan system, so that they can get a loan that is paid off more easily. They will move into a bracket whereby they are able to pay off such loans, so they should be regarded as worth backing. They will probably be able to pay off the loans more quickly than students who do an arts degree. Trainee pilots do a necessary qualification that takes them into a sector that the economy actually needs. Something should be put in place to allow the Government to say that the student loan system can be used for trainee pilots. That is a reasonable ask, and it is something the Government should look at.

I agree that the civil aviation sector must do much more. After all, all pilots are trained initially by civil aviation, and it is civil aviation that they benefit. Something must be done, not necessarily to step in and save flying schools that have become failed businesses, but to save the students, help them to progress in a much better way, and help them get what they are entitled to: a very expensive but very beneficial thing called a commercial pilot’s licence for jet aviation, which is essential for our economy. I appeal to the Minister to look at the points that were raised by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham, to see whether there is some way we can help students who are directly affected by the flying school closures, and to look at the wider picture for aviation students going forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman]

Of course individuals are welcome—and will want—to consider all the options under all circumstances, but I have not accepted the hon. Member’s narrative that the sector is in decline. We have had three important local failures of flying schools, but in general the sector has rebounded remarkably well from the pandemic. I would not accept that it is in decline; in fact, in many ways it has made a robust recovery.

In his own remarks, the hon. Gentleman highlighted the failure of Tayside Aviation. As far as I understand it, however, it would absolutely have been within the power of the Scottish Government not to change VAT, but to provide some grant intervention to Tayside Aviation had they wished to do so, either as an education provider or under the heading of industrial strategy, both of which are devolved areas. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman wants to comment on whether the Scottish Government had considered that, either as a matter of intervention at the time or now, in order to support Tayside Aviation if it wished to get back up as a trading entity.

The hon. Gentleman does not respond. Let me press on. The question is what we can do to support students under the very difficult circumstances in which they have found themselves. The CAA has responsibility for flight safety rather than for the financial wellbeing of the flight schools. Nevertheless, I think it has understood and recognised that there is every benefit to the UK in seeking to retain the value of students’ training so far. It has therefore enabled the transfer of training records to other ATOs so that, wherever possible, training is not lost. It also lies within the CAA’s power to extend the 18-month period in which students can restart their training; it can do so on a case-by-case basis for anyone caught out by exam timescales or other aspects.

The hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East mentioned first officer apprenticeships. I do not share his rather negative approach. This is an important development, which can itself be further built on. It may not provide the full total towards the training, but it is a very substantial contribution. It remains available to sponsors of apprenticeships, beyond the individual students, to support—as they do in other industries—students who wish to complete the training under that framework.

It is also important to say that treating ATOs as higher education providers would carry costs to them. They would be required to register as higher education providers with the Office for Students. There would be a number of regulatory burdens that ATOs might wish to take on, but they might very well decide that they did not want to submit to them. Some of those would address the issue of concern here, for example through student protection plans, compliance with consumer protection laws, Ofsted inspections, quality and standards assessments and the like. My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham may wish to pick up that point with my noble Friend Baroness Vere when he sees her. It is a matter of empirical investigation whether ATOs would be interested in registering as higher education providers with the Office for Students and whether they would treat it as a competitive trading advantage.

[Ian Paisley]

I understand and appreciate the Minister’s Treasury background. Does he accept that the student loans scheme is an investment in the value of what an educated person brings to society? We recognise the value of an arts degree, which we relate to salary, and that is very commendable. We recognise that for a pilot, it relates not the school they go to, but to the individual. A pilot will be in the higher echelons of earning, probably from day one, in a jet company. Surely the Government recognise that giving them a soft loan under the student loans scheme would be of great benefit to society, because society would get the money back more quickly. Is that not of value?

[Jesse Norman]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that interesting question. I have already talked about one scheme that has a similar approach—not a loan scheme, but an apprenticeship scheme. However, for a loan as he has described, the problem, which I have raised, would be the need to register with the Office for Students. As one goes up the flight training tree, one gets further away from basic education and closer and closer to a commercially valuable proposition that it is in the interest of companies in the aviation sector to support and finance. There may well be other things that can be done.

[Ian Paisley]

It is not unlike a doctor or a lawyer as they get further up the commercial tree in their training—it has that cross-application. A pilot may be training in instrument rating and instrument readings, which is a skill like an engineering skill.

[Jesse Norman]

The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting and somewhat philosophical question. I do not intend to get enormously technical on this issue, but the reason why, in the case of doctors, for example, this support has been given is that historically these doctors then go and work for the majority—perhaps all—of their careers in the NHS, in the discharge of a public function. If doctors left immediately to go and join commercial medical organisations, which an increasing number are, it might well be that, in some cases, from a public sector perspective, the philosophical question whether or not they should be supported by the taxpayer would be raised. I think we are in the same space of discussion; that is interesting.

I will say a couple of other things, if I may. Of course, the Department is working with industry and the Education and Skills Funding Agency on the first officer apprenticeship, as I mentioned. That, I think, has an important role to play in this.

Let me just pick up one other little thing that was just raised by colleagues before I close. The hon. Member for Dundee West (Chris Law) raised the question of PSOs. Of course, that does not directly have anything to do with this debate, but it is important. Let me just say that the Government recognise that PSOs are important to meet regional connectivity and levelling-up objectives. As I understand it—and I think he said—Dundee City Council has recently undertaken a tender for a new contract on the route from the end of October, and the Department has said that it will consider the application. It is obviously not appropriate for me to prejudge that in a debate today in Parliament, but the Government are very much looking forward to seeing that application and will judge it, of course, on its merits, in the usual way, in due course. With that, I think I will sit down.