Commons Chamber

Monday 16th June 2025

(began 19 hours, 10 minutes ago)

Share Debate
Watch Live
Skip to latest contribution
This debate has concluded
14:34
14:35
None Portrait Q1. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her policies of StandWithUs UK’s Voice of Students 2024-2025 report on antisemitism on university campuses. (904587)
-



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Question number one. I thank the honourable member for highlighting the report by
14:35
14:35
14:36
14:36
14:37
14:37
14:38
14:38
14:39
14:40
14:40
14:41
14:42
14:42
14:42
14:43
14:43
14:43
14:44
14:44
14:45
14:46
None Portrait Q4. What steps she is taking to help improve the school estate. (904590)
-



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Question four. With permission I will answer questions four and 16 together. This
14:46
14:46
14:46
14:47
14:47
14:47
14:47
14:48
14:48
14:48
14:49
14:50
14:50
14:51
14:52
14:52
14:53
14:53
14:54
14:54
14:54
14:55
14:56
14:56
14:57
14:58
14:59
None Portrait Q8. What steps she is taking to support children with SEND who do not have an EHCP. (904595)
-



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Mr Speaker, parents right across the country know that the Tories
14:59
14:59
14:59
15:00
15:01
15:01
15:01
15:02
15:03
15:03
15:04
15:05
15:05
15:06
15:06
15:07
15:07
15:08
15:08
15:09
15:10
15:10
15:11
15:11
15:12
15:12
15:13
15:14
15:14
15:15
15:15
15:16
15:16
15:17
15:17
15:17
15:18
15:18
15:19
15:19
15:20
15:20
15:20
15:21
15:21
15:22
15:23
15:23
15:23
15:24
15:25
15:25
15:25
15:26
15:26
15:27
15:28
15:28
15:29
15:29
15:29
15:29
15:30
15:30
15:31
15:31
15:32
15:32
15:32
15:33
15:34
15:34
15:34
15:35
15:35
15:36
None Portrait Ministerial statement: The Casey Report
-

the Home Secretary.
15:36
Yvette Cooper Portrait Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, with permission I will update the House on the audit the government commissioned from Baroness Casey on child sexual Baroness Casey on child sexual exploitation and grooming gangs and on the action we are taking to tackle this vile crime. To put perpetrators behind bars and to provide the innocent victims of those crimes with support and justice. The House will be aware that on Friday, seven men were found guilty of the most horrendous crimes in Rochdale between 2,000 and 2006.

They were convicted of treating teenage girls as sex slaves. Repeatedly raping them in filthy flats, alleyways and warehouses. The perpetrators included taxi drivers and market traders of Pakistani heritage and it has taken 20 years to bring them to justice. I want to pay tribute to the incredible bravery of the women who told their stories and have fought this through all these years. They should never have been let down for so long. The sexual exploitation of children by grooming gangs is one of the most horrific crimes.

Children as young as plan -- 10 plied with alcohol, brutally raped by gangs of men and disgracefully let down again and again by the authorities who were meant to protect them and keep them safe. These despicable crimes have caused the most unimaginable harm to victims throughout their lives and are a stain on our society. Five months ago I told the House our most important task was to stop perpetrators and put them behind bars. I can report that work was accelerating, arrest and investigations are increasing.

After I asked police forces in January to identify cases involving grooming and child sexual exploitation allegations, that have been closed with no further action, more than 800 cases have now been identified for formal review. And I expect that figure to rise above 1,000 in the coming weeks. Let me be clear, perpetrators of these file crimes should be off our streets, behind bars and paying the price for what they have done. Further rapid action is also under way to implement recommendations of past inquiries and reviews, including the seven year independent inquiry into child abuse, recommendations which, for too long, have sat on the shelf.

In the Crime and Policing Bill we are introducing the long-overdue mandatory reporting duty, which I called for more than 10 years ago. As well as aggravated offences for grooming offenders so their sentences match the severity of their crimes. Earlier this year I also commissioned Baroness Louise Casey to undertake a rapid national audit of the nature, scale and characteristics of gang base exploitation. I specifically asked her to look at the issue of ethnicity and the cultural and social drivers for this type of offending.

Analysis that had never previously been done despite years of concerns being raised. I asked her to advise us on what are the reviews, investigations and actions would be needed to address the current and historical failures that she found. I told Parliament in January expected Baroness Casey to deliver the same kind of impactful and no holds barred report that she produced on Rotherham in 2015, so we never shy away from the reality of these terrible crimes. I am very grateful to Louise and her team that they've done exactly that.

With a hugely wide-ranging assessment conducted in just four months. The findings of her audit are damning. At its heart she identifies a deep- rooted failure to treat children as children. A continued failure to protect children and teenage girls from rape, from exploitation and serious violence and from the scars that last a lifetime. She finds too much fragmentation in the authorities response, too little sharing of information, too much reliance on flawed data, too much denial, too little justice, too many criminals getting off, too many victims being let down.

The audit describes victims as young as 10, often those in care or children with learning or physical disabilities being singled out for grooming precisely because of their vulnerability. Perpetrators still walking free because no one joined the. Or because the law ended up protecting them instead of the victims that they had exploded. Deep-rooted institutional failures, stretching back decades were organisations who should have protected children and punished offenders, look the other way. Baroness Casey found blindness, ignorance, prejudice, defensiveness and even good, but misdirected intentions all played a part in this collective failure.

On the key issues of ethnicity that I'd ask her to examine, she is found continued failure to gather proper, robust national data, despite concerns being raised going back for many years. In the local data that the audit examined from three police forces, they identify clear evidence of overrepresentation among suspects of Asian and Pakistani heritage men. She refers to examples of organisations avoiding the topic altogether for fear of appearing racist or raising community tensions. These findings are deeply disturbing, but most disturbing of all, as Baroness Casey makes clear, is the fact that too many of these findings are not new.

As Baroness Casey's audit sets out, there have been 15 years of reports, reviews, inquiries and investigations into these appalling rates, exploitation and violent crimes against children, detailed over 17 pages in her report, but too little has changed. We have lost more than a decade. That must end now. Baroness Casey setup 12 recommendations for change. We will take action on all of them immediately because we cannot afford more wasted years. We will introduce new laws to protect children and support victims so they stop being blamed for the appalling crimes committed against them.

New major police operations to pursue perpetrators and put them behind bars. New national inquiry to direct local investigations and hold institutions to account for past failures. New ethnicity data and research so we face up to the facts on exultation and abuse. New action across children services and other agencies to identify children at risk. In further action to support child victims and tackle the new forms of exploitation and abuse online. Taken together this will mark the biggest programme of work ever pursued to root out the scourge of grooming gangs and child sexual exploitation.

Those mild part -- vial perpetrators who have grown used to authorities looking the other way must have no place to hide. To spell out the next steps we are looking -- announcing today, Baroness Casey's first recommendation is we must see children as children. She concludes too many grooming gangs cases have been dropped or downgraded from rape to lesser charges because a 13 to 15-year-old is perceived to have been in love with or to have consented to sex with the perpetrator.

We will change the law to ensure adults who engage in penetrative sex with a child under 16 face most serious charge of rape. We will work closely with the CPS to ensure there are safeguards for consensual teenage relationships. We will change the loss of those convicted for child prostitution offences while their rapist got off Scott free, will have their convictions disregarded in their criminal records expunged. The next recommendation is a national criminal operation. As I said outcome arrests and investigations are rising, but the audit recommends us going further.

I can announce the police will launch a new national criminal operation into grooming gangs, overseen by the National Crime Agency, bringing together for the first time all arms of the policing response. And will develop an rigorous new operating model which all forces across the country will be able to adopt, ensuring grooming gangs are always treated as serious and organised crime. Rapists who groomed children, whether to crimes were committed decades ago or are still being committed today, can end up behind bars.

Alongside justice there must also be accountability and action. We have begun implementing the recommendations from inquiries at past, including Professor Jay's independent inquiry. We have said further inquiries are needed to get accountability in local areas. I told the House in January I would undertake further work to look at how to ensure those inquiries could get the evidence they needed to properly hold institutions to account and we have sought responses from local councils to. We asked Baroness Casey to review those, as well as arrangements and powers used in past investigations and inquiries to consider the best needs -- means to get to the truth.

Her report concludes that further local investigations are needed, but they should be directed and overseen by a national commission with statutory inquiry powers. We agree and we will set up a national inquiry to that effect. Baroness Casey is not recommending another overarching inquiry of the kind conducted by Professor Alexis Jay and she recommends that the inquiry should be time-limited. Its purpose must be to challenge what the audit describes as continued denial, resistance and legal wrangling among local agencies.

We will set out further details on the national further details on the national I warned in January that the data collection we had inherited from the last government on ethnicity was completely inadequate. It was only collected on 37% of suspects. Baroness Casey's audit confirms that ethnicity data is not recorded for two thirds of rooming gang perpetrators. She says it is not good enough to support any statements about the ethnicity of group based child sexual exploitation offenders at the national level.

I agree with that conclusion. Frankly it is ridiculous and helps no one that this basic information has not been collected. Especially when there had been warnings and recommendations stretching back 13 years about the woefully inadequate data on perpetrators which prevent patterns of crime being understood and tackled. The immediate changes I announced in January to the police recording practices are starting to improve the data but we will need to go much further. Baroness Casey's audit at local level data in three areas, Manchester, West Yorkshire, and South Yorkshire, where high- profile cases involving Pakistani heritage men have long been investigated and reported.

There they found the suspect of group based child sexual offences were disproportionately likely to be Asian men. She also found indications of disproportionality in serious case reviews. Whilst much more robust data is needed nationally, we cannot and must not shy away from these findings because, as Baroness Casey says, ignoring the issues not examining and exposing them to the light allows the criminality and depravity of a minority of men to be used to marginalise whole communities. The marginalise whole communities.

The vast majority of people in our British Asian and Pakistani heritage communities continue to be appalled by these terrible crimes and agree that a criminal minority of sick predators and perpetrators in every community must be dealt with robustly by the criminal law. Baroness Casey's review also identifies secretions and investigations into perpetrators who are white witches, European, African, or Middle Eastern. Just as Alexis Jay's inquiry concluded that all ethnicities and communities were involved in appalling child abuse crimes.

To provide accurate information to help tackle serious crimes, we will make it a formal requirement for the first time to collect both ethnicity and nationality data for all cases of child sexual abuse and exploitation. And we will commission a new research into the cultural and social drivers of child sexual exploitation, misogyny, and violence against women and girls. As Baroness Casey has recommended. The final group of recommendations from the audit is about continued failure of agencies you should be keeping children safe to share vital information and act on clear signs of risk.

Worryingly, the audit finds that, past reports of child sexual abuse and exportation to the police have gone up, the number of child sexual abuse cases identified for protection plans by local children's services has fallen to its lowest ever level. But no one has been curious as to why. The audit details curious as to why. The audit details an abysmal failure to respond to 15 years worth of recommendations and warnings about the failings and interagency cooperation. We will act at pace to deliver on Baroness Casey's recommendations, on mandatory sharing of information between agencies and on unique reference numbers for children.

The work already been taken forward by my right honourable friend the Education Secretary. My right honourable friend the Transport Secretary will also work at pace to close loopholes in the law on taxi close loopholes in the law on taxi licensing. Finally I want to respond to three other important issues identified by Baroness Casey and her reports, and where she has not made specific recommendations. On support for victims, the Health Secretary will fund additional training for mental health staff in schools on identifying and supporting children and who have experienced trauma, exploitation, and abuse.

Secondly, Baroness Casey reports that she came across cases involving suspects who were asylum seekers. We have asked her team to provide to the Home Office all the evidence that they have found so the immigration enforcement can immediately pursue individual cases with the police. Let me make clear, those who groom children or who commit sexual offences will not be granted asylum in the UK. We will do everything in our power to remove them. I do not believe the law is strong enough that we have inherited, so we are bringing forward a change to the law so that anyone convicted of sexual offences is excluded from the asylum system and denied refugee status.

We have already increased the removal of foreign national offenders by 14% since the election, and we are drawing up new arrangements to identify and remove those who have committed a much wider range of offences. Finally Baroness Casey describes ways in which patterns of grooming gangs, child sexual exploitation are changing. Cleaning evidence of rape and sexual exportation taking place in street gangs and drug gangs that combine the middle and sexual exploitation. I do not believe that this kind of exportation has been sufficiently investigated.

It also describes sexual exportation and modern slavery and trafficking cases, and most significantly, describes the huge increase in online grooming and horrendous sexual exportation abuse including the use of social media apps to build up relationships and lure children into physical abuse. The audit quotes one police expert saying, " If Rotherham were to happen again today, it would start online. " We are also passing world leading new laws to target those who groom and exploit children online investing in cutting-edge technology to target the highest harm offenders, but we will need to do much more.

For the new scandals and shameful crimes of the future will be missed otherwise. When the final report of Alexis Jay was published in 2022, the then Home Secretary Grant Shapps issued profound and formal public apology to the victims of child sexual abuse so badly let down over decades are different levels of the state. The shadow Home Secretary at that time, myself, I joined him in that apology on behalf of the opposition and extended it to victims of child sexual exploitation too.

To the victims and survivors of sexual exportation and grooming gangs, on behalf of this and past governments and the many public authorities who let you down, I want to reiterate an unequivocal apology for the unimaginable pain and for the unimaginable pain and suffering that you have suffered, and the failure of our country's institutions through decades to prevent that harm and keep you safe. Words are not enough. Victims and survivors need action. The reforms I have set out today will leads to the strong attacks on any government has taken to tackle child sexual exportation.

Police investigations, more arrests, new inquiries, changes to the law to protect children and a fundamental overhaul of the way organisations work to support victims and put perpetrators behind bars. None of this will work unless everyone is part of it. Unless everyone works together to keep our children safe. I commend this

**** Possible New Speaker ****

statement to the house. Hopefully it will be available in the Table Office for members who
15:54
15:55
Kemi Badenoch Portrait Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
-
-
Mr Speaker I would like to thank the right honourable lady for advanced sight of this statement. Although I must say I could not believe my ears. Listening to the Home Secretary's statement who said this was their plan all along we all know it is another U-turn. After months of pressure, the Prime Minister has finally accepted our calls for a full statutory national inquiry into the grooming gangs. I welcome that, we have finally reached this point. We must remember that this is not a victory for politicians, especially the ones like the Home Secretary who had to be dragged into this position or the prime minister.

This is a victory for the survivors who have been calling for this for years. I have been speaking to many who do not have confidence that a government that ignores their concerns will deliver. Before I turned to the detail of the Home Secretary's statement, I want to recognise the tireless work of those who refused to let this issue be buried. Survivors like Fiona Goddard who bravely waved to anonymity. And the parents of survivors like Ryland West, who I spoke to this morning because the Maggie Oliver, whose courage in speaking truth to power has been instrumental in bringing us to this point.

The late Andrew Norfolk, whose fearless journalism brought these crimes to light. Owners Casey for her review, and Charlie Peters who has consistently been a voice for the voiceless. The Prime Minister's handling of this scandal is an extraordinary failure of leadership. His judgement has once again been found wanting. Since he became Prime Minister, he and the Home Secretary dismissed calls for an inquiry because they did not want to cause a stir. They accused those of us demanding justice for the victims of this scandal as, and I quote, " Jumping on a far-right bandwagon.

" A claim the Prime Minister as official spokesman restated this weekend. Shameful. It has been left to conservatives time and time again to force this issue. Three times, they can matter now, they all matter now, these Labour MPs voted against a national inquiry. Three times. Liberal Democrats did not bother to vote at all. Asleep at the wheel. Labour MPs voted against a recent amendment to the children's Bill. At Committee stage of the crime and policing...



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Mr Swallow I wanted to set a good example this is a very serious debate. Tempers are running high but
15:58
15:58
Kemi Badenoch Portrait Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

They point and shout as much as they like, they know the truth as we on this side of the House do. I will on this side of the House do. I will repeat myself. Three times. Labour MPs voted against the recent amendments to the Children's Bill, the state of the bill they voted against, at Committee stage of the against, at Committee stage of the Crime and Policing Bill, they voted against a national inquiry. At prime ministers questions, the prime ministers questions, the prime minister repeatedly ruled out a national inquiry to the cheers of national inquiry to the cheers of all of these Labour MPs were now pretending this is what they believed all along.

And no doubt the Home Secretary in her response will try and claim that the previous government did nothing. A wholly false assertion that she should not repeat today. The Conservative government took extensive action starting with the original Baroness Jay report commissioned in 2014 by the then Home Secretary Theresa May. One year later, she commissioned an independent investigation into child sexual abuse. Sajid Javid commissioned ethnicity data collection in 2018. So it is wrong to claim that ethnicity data collection had not been done.

I will remind her that the Foreign Secretary criticised Sajid Javid at Secretary criticised Sajid Javid at the time. Said he was bringing the office of Home Secretary into disrepute was pandering to the far right. For doing exactly what she says she is doing now. They should be ashamed. We accepted all the recommendations of that previous child sexual inquiry in 2022 except having a new Cabinet Minister which were not made at any difference at all. The Home Secretary claimed that the recommendation sat on the shelf.

Let me be clear, we went further than those recommendations. It was the Conservatives who established the grooming gangs task force which supported police forces to make 807 arrests group based child sexual exportation last year. So don't tell me we did nothing. It is vital that this inquiry is robust, swift, and above all independent. There are legitimate concerns about institutions investigating themselves. Especially as some of the most egregious cases of institutional failure that occurred in Labour-controlled authorities. They can moan as much as they like but the people out there believe that is why nothing has happened yet.

In Greater Manchester, Operation Augusta was shut down. In Rotherham, under continuous Labour- controlled since 1974, saw repeated failures. In Telford, where Labour has predominately held power, the current MP initially rejected calls for an inquiry while serving as council leader. This inquiry must have teeth. It must start in known hotspots like Bradford and Rochdale. I commend my honourable friend the member for Keighley for his member for Keighley for his Will the inquiry examine the role of ethnicity in these crimes? Confronting hard truths about potential coverups motivated by fears of appearing racist.

There's no point in muttering, the home secretary said it herself will stop I spoke to the father of a survivor just this morning and he told me the survivors need to have someone who is independent that they can go to and trust. It's no use them being forced to speak to the same authorities to ignore them in the first place. Will this inquiry ensure that no one, whether police officers, councillors or Council officials is beyond scrutiny? The government's approach to the Casey review itself raises serious concerns.

While the findings are crucial, we as legislators are sent here to make decisions, not to outsource the difficult ones. The Prime Minister has waited months for someone to take this decision for him. This is the kind of dithering and delay that the survivors complained about. We need answers to the following questions. The House deserves to know what changed the Prime Minister's mind to thinking this was dog whistle, far-right politics, to thinking it was something he must do? When exactly did Baroness Casey submit her findings to Downing Street and did the government request any cane make changes to her report? Does she agree that anyone in authority who deliberately covered up these disgusting crimes should be prosecuted for misconduct in public office and those prosecutions should happen alongside, not after the inquiry? We believe anyone within the police, local authority, social services or CPS who covered this up because they cared more about so- called community relations than about protecting vulnerable girls as young as 10 years old should be pursued.

We welcome her comments about perpetrators not being able to make asylum claims. I will remind home secretary we put forward an amendment in the borders bill and she and all her colleagues voted against that very measure. Does she now agree the perpetrator should also not be able to make human rights claims to avoid deportation and will she legislate to do that? Will the inquiry be concluded within two years and will everyone of the 50 towns affected be covered, including Bradford, which is still refusing to conduct an inquiry in this.

And will those local inquiries have the power to summon witnesses or is that power only for the national inquiry? And most critically, we need a clear timeline for conclusions and actions. The victims can't wait another decade for justice. We should be able to do this in two years. Finally, we didn't need to commission a report to tell us what we already knew. So will she apologise on behalf of herself, the Labour Party and the Prime Minister for wasting so much time in voting against this, dismissing the concerns of the survivors? The House, the British public and most important, the many brave survivors, deserve clear answers from a government of dithering and delay.
16:04
Yvette Cooper Portrait Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)
-
-
I have to say to the Leader of the Opposition, I don't think she can have read this report and the seriousness of its conclusions. Because it sets out a timeline of failure from 2009 two 2025. Repeated reports and recommendations that were not acted on. On child protection, on police investigations, on ethnicity data, on data sharing, Onset work for victims. For 14 of those 16 years, her party was in government.

Including years when she was the Minister for Children and Families. Then, the Minister for qualities, covering race and ethnicity issues and violence against and girls. And I didn't hear her raise any of these issues until January of this year. She will know the Prime Minister didn't just raise them, he acted on them. Bringing the first prosecutions against grooming gangs, calling for action to address ethnicity issues in 2012. She will know that the safeguard Minister and I have raised these issues repeatedly.

She referred to Professor Alexis Jay independent inquiry into child sexual abuse. I called for and strongly supported that inquiry and also on a cross party basis we wanted that inquiry to work and supported its conclusions. But her party did absolutely nothing to implement those conclusions. Time and again, recommendations just sitting on the shelf. It has taken this government not to bring forward the mandatory duty to report. She says that we should ensure that people who have engaged in coverups should be prosecuted.

I agree, and that is why this party is changing the law to make that possible so that coverups cannot happen and so that people are held to account. She will also know that the vote she is referred to, what she wanted to do, the amendment she put forward, would have wrecked the children's wellbeing and Schools Bill. The very bill which includes two of Baroness Casey's recommendations, strengthening child protection, recommendations that she and her party refused to introduce over 14 years.

I'm sorry she chose not to join in the apology to victims and survivors for decades of failure that was a cross party apology in 2022. And it should be again. If she really had victims interest and the national interest at heart.
16:07
16:08
16:10
Lisa Smart Portrait Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
secretary and how she intends to ensure survivors are heard, respected and central to this view, building on their existing testimony without asking to repeat themselves and relive their abuse again and again. The seven year inquiry into child sexual abuse chaired by Professor Alexis Jay delivered his final report in 2022. The government at the time delivered none of its recommendations, leaving survivors waiting for justice. In her remarks, the Home Secretary mentioned two of Professor Jay's recommendations being introduced through the crime and policing bill, mandatory reporting.

What does this new inquiry mean for the remaining recommendations of Professor Jay? Will victims and providers -- survivors see all 20 recommendations implemented while the new inquiry is being carried out? Any new inquiry must be more than symbolic, it must be robust, victim centred and capable of driving real change. A duty of candour would require public officials and authorities to cooperate fully with an inquiry like this, so it continues to be disappointing that the government has delayed bringing this forward.

I asked the Home Secretary plainly, what is stopping the government from introducing a duty of candour via a Hillsborough Law now? Now that Baroness Casey has completed her review, I welcome her appointment as chair of the independent commission into adult social care. I trust she will bring to that hugely important role the same determination to challenge injustice and champion the voices of those too often left

**** Possible New Speaker ****

unheard. The honourable member makes
16:11
16:13
16:14
16:15
16:15
16:17
16:18
16:18
16:20
16:21
16:21
16:22
16:22
16:23
16:24
16:25
16:26
16:27
16:28
16:28
16:29
16:30
16:31
16:32
16:34
16:34
16:35
16:35
16:36
16:36
16:37
16:38
16:40
Yvette Cooper Portrait Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

I can reassure him that the point of having the national inquiry is to of having the national inquiry is to ensure that where local institutions are being examined, there will be powers, for the commission to be able to compel witnesses, to be able to take evidence under oath, to be able to gather information papers and evidence, as they so see fit, in order to make sure that we can get to the heart of institutional failure. I would also like to say that this really is about criminals and knowing when teenage girls, especially, when young children are vulnerable, to the most appalling exploitation and coercion, they're playing with children's emotions and vulnerability, to draw them in to what is ultimately violent crime and the most terrible abuse.

This does raise questions, particularly about the fact that the number of child protection cases identified around sexual abuse has dropped, by social services. We are very concerned about that, the education secretary is investigating that and also the failure to share data properly, around the children who are at risk, the ones that are going missing. It is the evidence from the work that he did and the committee did, 10 he did and the committee did, 10 years ago, about missing children, about children in care.

It is all the same evidence now. We have got to be better at pursuing that evidence.
16:42
16:42
16:43
16:43
16:44
16:44
16:45
16:46
16:46
16:47
16:48
16:48
16:49
16:50
16:50
16:51
16:52
16:53
16:53
16:54
16:54
16:55
16:55
16:55
16:56
16:57
16:57
16:59
16:59
17:00
17:01
17:01
17:01
17:02
17:02
17:03
17:04
17:05
17:06
17:06
17:07
17:08
Jonathan Brash Portrait Mr Jonathan Brash MP (Hartlepool, Labour)
-
-
chooses to investigate. Today and the government's instigation of a national inquiry. It must leave no stone unturned, you must lead to convictions and it must lead to perpetrators and anybody can lead to perpetrators and anybody can place it behind bars, as far as I am concerned they can rot. It is also important that in this most serious important that in this most serious of issues, demands most serious conduct from the people in this place. Not misrepresenting what place.

Not misrepresenting what happens here. Can the Home Secretary happens here. Can the Home Secretary confirm to me that the reason reference by the Leader of the reference by the Leader of the Opposition. If it had passed, would not have led to a national inquiry, it would have blocked child protection measures. And weaponised protection measures. And weaponised We We want We want to We want to see We want to see action We want to see action taken We want to see action taken across We want to see action taken across the board in order to ensure that children are protected and also to make sure that recommendations are introduced.

The children and well being bill that the party opposite being bill that the party opposite voted against, the opportunity to implement two of the recommendations made, in Baroness Casey's audit and made, in Baroness Casey's audit and in her report and it is right that we should be able to implement those we should be able to implement those changes, in order to strengthen the protection of children and to keep young people say. young people say.
17:09
17:10
17:10
17:11
17:12
17:13
17:14
17:15
17:15
17:17
17:17
17:18
17:18
17:19
17:19
17:19
17:20
17:20
17:22
17:22
17:23
17:23
17:24
17:25
17:26
17:26
17:27
17:28
17:28
David Lammy Portrait Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Tottenham, Labour)
-
-
I will remind the House that the Foreign Office has been responding to 2 crises this past week. My honourable friend Minister for Care will update the government fourth extensive effort to those who have loved ones who have lost their lives in the devastating India plane crash. Nine days ago, I was in Delhi strengthening our friendship, our nations are mourning together and my thoughts are with those suffering such terrible loss. With permission, I will now turn to the Middle East.

Early last Friday, Israel launched extensive strikes across Iran. Targets including military sites, including the Iranians military facility and key commanders of nuclear scientists. The last 72 hours have seen Iranians ballistic missiles and drone strikes across Israel, killing at least 21 Israelis. And injuring hundreds more. And Israeli strikes have continued including on targets into a round. With the authorities reporting scores of civilian casualties back into Iran. Benjamin Netanyahu has said his operations will continue for as many days as it takes to remove the threat.

The Supreme Leader money has said Israel must expect severe punishment. But a deputy speaker, our first priority is the welfare of course of British nationals. On Friday, we swiftly stood -- set up a crisis team and yesterday announced the now advise against all travel to Israel as well as our long-standing travel advice Today I can update the House that we are asking all British nationals in Israel to register their presence, with the FCDO. So that we can share important information on the situation and leaving the country.

And I can announce today that we are further updating our travel advice to signpost border crossing points. And it sending rapid deployment teams to Egypt and to Jordan to bolster our presence near the border, in Israel which has already been supporting British nationals on the ground. Israel and Iran have closed their airspace until further notice and our ability therefore to provide support in and out is extremely limited. British nationals in the region will closely monitor our travel advice for further updates.

The situation remains a fast moving. Expect more strikes in the days to come. This is a moment of great danger for the region. And I want to be clear, the UK was not involved in the strikes against Iran. This is a military action conducted by Israel. It should come as no surprise that Israel considers the Uranian nuclear program and existential threat. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said that Israel was a cancerous tumour should be removed. We have always supported Israeli security, that is why Britain has sought to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon through extensive diplomacy.

We agree with President Trump when he says negotiations are necessary and must lead to a deal. That has long been the view of the so-called Britain, France and Germany. With whom we have worked so closely, on this issue. The view of all the G7 who have backed the efforts. President Trump envoy Steve Witkoff off and for more than two decades, the cross-party view, in this House. Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Lord Hague of Richmond led the dramatic efforts on the issue, Baroness May of Maidenhead and the former right honourable member for Oxbridge did too.

And this government has continued to support pursue negotiations in France and Germany in five rounds of talks with Iran this year alone -- for Oxbridge. Ours is a hardheaded realistic assessment of how best to tackle this a grave threat. Fundamentally, no military action can put an end to around nuclear capabilities. Just last week, the International Atomic Energy Agency passed a non-compliant resolution against Iran. The first such IAA finding in 14 years. The director- finding in 14 years. The director- general's comprehensive report says failure to produce nuclear materials.

The only state without nuclear weapons at such high levels, it's a total enriched stockpile is now 40 times the limit, in the JCPOA. The program is part of a wider pattern of destabilising activity. The government has taken a firm action in response. When they transferred ballistic missiles for use in Russia's war in Ukraine, we imposed extensive sanctions and cancelled our bilateral air services. In the face of unacceptable IRGC threats here in the UK and some 24 plots since 2022, the Crown Prosecution Service has for the first time charged Iranian nationals under the National Security Act.

And we have placed the Uranian state, the IRGC on the enhanced tier of the new Foreign Influence Registration Scheme. A widening war would have a grave and unpredictable consequences, including for our partners in Jordan and the goal. The horrors of Gaza worsening, tensions in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq rising. The threat continuing. That is why the government's firm view, as it was government's firm view, as it was last October, in the ballistic missile attack on Israel, is that further escalation in the Middle East is not in Britain's interest.

Nor the interests of Israel, Iran or the region. There are hundreds of thousands of British nationals living in the region. And with Iran a major oil producer and one fifth of the total world oil consumption, flowing, escalating conflict poses a flowing, escalating conflict poses a real risk, for the global economy. As missiles rain down, Israel has a right to defend itself and its citizens. But our priority now is a deescalation. Our message to both Israel and Iran is clear.

Step back, show restraint, do not get pulled deeper into a catastrophic conflict whose consequences neither can control. The Prime Minister chaired the situation last Friday and spoke to Prime Minister Netanyahu, President Trump, the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Samantha. -- Mohammed bin Salman. How to ease tensions. The government has deployed additional assets to the region, including jet the contingency support to UK forces and potentially our regional allies, concerned about the escalating conflict.

In the last 72 hours my honourable friend, the Minister for the Middle East and I have tried to carve out space for diplomacy. I have spoken to both Israeli Foreign Minister and the Iranian Foreign Minister underlined Britain's focus on a deescalation. I have also met with the Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Pfizer. I've met with counterparts from France, from Germany and the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Jordan, Turkiye and Iraq. These conversations are part of a collective drive to prevent a spiralling conflict.

Has arisen as the appalling situation in Gaza continues. This weekend, hospitals in Gaza reported over 50 people were killed and more than 500 injured while trying to access food. This government will not take a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza. It will not stop calling for aid restrictions to be lifted in an immediate ceasefire and we will not forget about the hostages. This forget about the hostages. This morning I met with a hostages family, whose courage is a reminder of the plight still truly held in Gaza.

We will not stop striving to free the hostages. Our vision remains unchanged an end to around nuclear program and destabilising regional activity. Israel securing its borders, giving its neighbours a sovereign Palestinian state as part of the two-state solution. Diplomacy is indispensable to each of these goals. Britain will keep pressing all sides to choose a diplomatic path out of this crisis stop I path out of this crisis stop I commend this statement to the House.
17:39
Priti Patel Portrait Rt Hon Priti Patel MP (Witham, Conservative)
-
-
These are deeply dangerous times and as of the Foreign Secretary as already said, last week IAEA report takes it abundantly clear that Iran nuclear program has grown to stop their stockpile of enriched or uranium passing 400 KG and enriching to 60%. It is widely been noted is A-level unprecedented for a state without nuclear weapons and be on the need for any civilian use. The IAEA director-general also stated that Iran is actions and failure to cooperate has led to a significant reduction in the ability to identify reduction in the ability to identify whether Iran is nuclear program is entirely peaceful.

We share those concerns and the reasons why Orion has never obtained nuclear weapons are clear. The Iranian regime is a prolific state sponsor of terrorism, with the stated intention to annihilate the world's only Jewish state. Given these concerns and the clear threat Iran poses, not only to Stability, Israel has the right to act in self defence did a great Iran nuclear infrastructure. As well as posing a threat to Israel, Iran poses a direct threat to the UK and our interest. The Minister for the Middle East as stated in April, in written Parliamentary answer is that Iran's nuclear program has never been a more advanced and threatens international peace and security.

Earlier this month, the Strategic Defence Review stated that Iran is escalating nuclear program resents a risk to international and global nonproliferation architecture. Can the Foreign Secretary tell us what discussions he has had, with the discussions he has had, with the IAEA and give us his assessment on how close or was to having a nuclear weapon capabilities, that could strike Israel and our interest in the region. Given the report from the IAEA, earlier this week, what direct bilateral discussions have they had with Israeli counterparts on this matter in the last few days, prior to the action was undertaken last week.

He has spoken about conversations since the strikes commenced on Friday, but what discussions took place in the days preceding. The Foreign Secretary update us on the discussions with our partners in the region, before the strikes on Friday. And since, for example, what discussions he's had with our friends in Bahrain, in light of the ceasefire agreement and with Jordan, in light of the previous airspace violations by Iran. Are these discussions purely diplomatic? Or do they cover defence and military planning to stop last week on 10 June, during a statement, the Middle East Minister said they were in contact with the Israeli Report, on 9 June.

Can the Foreign Secretary say during those discussions whether the nuclear threat from Iran and the IAEA assessment was discussed, were they discussing other matters. We also know from recent statements, from the Minister, that relations between this government and Israel have become strained, since last July. What message does the Foreign Secretary had all those who are concerned that constructive dialogue and diplomacy, with Israel is not taking place. And with British nationals in Israel and the wider region, what efforts are underway to expeditiously help those who want to expeditiously help those who want to return to the UK, to come back.

And while the Foreign Secretary cannot rightly give operational details to the House, can you confirm if contingency plans have been updated recently. For the evacuation of recently. For the evacuation of British personnel and assets, from a Iran. At the G7, with the Prime Minister be having substantive bilateral discussions with President Trump on this matter? And Iran Are targeting the civilians and the whole House should condemn Iran for doing this. The UK has previously supported Israel in defending them from missile and drone attacks, so can the Foreign Secretary confirm if the UK has offered military intelligence and other forms of assistance to our Israeli allies, encountering these attacks from Iran.

The German Chancellor has offered provided assistance to Israel. Has the UK made such an offer to. It is right that the UK capabilities have been increased in the region over the weekend. Can the Foreign Secretary tell the House whether he is prepared to take any retaliation, any, prepared to tackle any retaliation from Iran and its proxies, including the Houthis. Although around nuclear capabilities have been degraded, they are, as we no regular contact on China and Russia. And have been for some time. Has the Foreign Secretary assessed the involvement of Russia and China, then it may have had, in supporting a rather nuclear program, to get to where it is today.

Is he concerned that they will support Iran to rebuild their capability materials and following Israel's actions. Is he looking and applying sanctions, new sanctions, constraining Orion's ability to rebuild. Advance and accelerate their nuclear ambitions. Turning to the direct threat Iran poses to our shores. The Foreign Secretary is mentioned the recent attacks, sorry the recent arrests and putting Orion on the enhanced tear first. Can he give an assurance about work taking place across government, over the last few days, including the Home Office, the police, counterterrorism corporations and intelligence services, to tackle any retaliation, the IRGC and those acting on its behalf, directly towards us.

Has the threat risk level been reassessed? Is extra support being provided to secure schools and other parts of the Jewish community in the UK. We all want to see peace and stability in the region, where Orion is responsible for so much bloodshed, that is now taking place. -- Ron. Can the Home Secretary up to date on the steps be taken to secure the hostages from Hamas captivity, and work to get more aid into Gaza and efforts to bring about a sustainable
17:45
David Lammy Portrait Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Tottenham, Labour)
-
-
I am grateful to the shadow Foreign Secretary for her remarks. The cross-party support that I sensed in her remarks and for the questions that I will certainly endeavour to answer. She asks about our contact with the IAEA. I can confirm I spoke to the director just a few days ago, certainly before the action last week, and discussed his report. She asks what the latest is on that and she will know that the assessment was that the Iranians stockpile was now standing at 8430 kg, more than 40 times the JCPOA limit.

And the total high enriched money and stockpiles was considered nine significant quantities of high enriched uranium. She asked what coordination we had given of that information and I want to reassure her that I have been in close touch, working with Mike French and German colleagues -- my French and German colleagues over this period and coordinating, working across a political director of sport also has foreign ministers in our messaging to the Iranians regime. And, confirmed to her that we will be speaking to the Iranians regime again in the coming hours to raise those concerns and tighten what I said about the need for diplomacy at this time.

She asked quite properly about our long-standing relationship with Bahrain, and can I confirm that the Minister has spoken to Bahrain. She asked about our long-standing relationship with Jordan, and can I confirm that of course I have spoken to Foreign Minister Safari in the last few days. -- Sephardi. We continue to coordinate with our Jordanian friends and offer whatever support we can at this time. She asks officially about our ongoing relationship with Israel. She will know that our relationship with Israel remains complex and intense, and as she would expect, I have spoken to the Foreign Minister on numerous occasions, and of course spoke to him again.

He was in a bunker when I spoke to him on Saturday, separated from his family. I offered him condolences. And of course, as you would expect, the United Kingdom and Israel in these times, of course coordinate and work together. We have disagreements, of course. We have discussed that over this Dispatch Box particularly about the humanitarian situation in Gaza. But we were had nice that there are many Israelis as we speak -- we recognise there are many Israelis as we speak in their bunkers that there have been 21 casualties over this last period and over 500 people injured, there is a sense of trauma, compounding trauma in Israel and I want to reassure that we recognise that.

Of course the Prime Minister is discussing these issues with President Trump at this time. I know the G7 meeting is going on as we speak. I want to reassure her also about our contact with hostages, that's why I was meeting with hostage families trust today and undertaking to raise that issue again in this place, and what they asked me was to ensure that with this crisis we do not take our eye off the situation in Gaza and that is why I made it part of my statement.

She quite rightly asks about state throughout from the Iranians regime -- about state threats. And can I refer her to the work of Sir John Hall. He has found gaps in our legislation and framework in relation to how he deals with these state threats. I'm pleased about the arrests that have been made recently but we will be coming forward the appropriate legislation dealing with state from

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the IRGC in the coming months. It's completely understandable
17:50
17:52
17:53
Calum Miller Portrait Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

I am grateful to the Foreign Secretary for advance out of his statement. Ministers and officials from the Department as well. People from the Department as well. People As war has broken out between Israel and Iran. As we consider the UK's response let me begin with keeping sibyls on which I hope this House will agree. The state of his will has a right to exist and defend itself in line with international law. We stand against Iran call to support global terrorism and foster regional instability.

Will the Foreign Secretary go further, and finally prescribe the IRGC? The ambition to create a nuclear weapon is a grave risk to the UK's interest and Israel's survival. Successive government have been right to seek to contain that risk through diplomatic means. The Netanyahu government's unilateral action which it against the advice of allies and without full warning has severely undermined those efforts. It was ill judged, reckless and not the behaviour of a responsible ally. Can the Foreign Secretary confirmed that the Prime Minister will lessen today's G7 Summit for a return to negotiations with the UK, included, alongside the US? Iran is retaliating with its own strikes and may look to respond further including by threatening the assets of other states in the region.

Can the Foreign Secretary confirm the sole purpose of UK military deployment will be to protect our assets, personnel and citizens and that he will not allow us to be drawn into this conflict between Israel and Iran? What specific steps is the Foreign Secretary taking to ensure that while the focus is on this crisis, do not Lucite of the need to secure the unconditional release of the hostages held by Hamas and maintain scrutiny on the extreme actions of the Netanyahu government towards Palestinians so as to protect the possibility of a a two-step solution, will he the call for the immediate recognition of

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Palestine? I am grateful to the honourable
17:55
David Lammy Portrait Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Tottenham, Labour)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for his remarks and the tone with which he made them come because I think in matters of war it's always important this House and speak with one voice. On the issue of prescription, can I refer him to the work of Sir John Hall. And remind him that what we are dealing with our state throughout, and to be absolutely clear, no country in the world is deploying more state throughout across the world than Iran.

And that was why it is important to look at this issue specifically. He has found gaps in our architecture. We are looking at those gaps and we will come forward with our plans shortly. He rightly with our plans shortly. He rightly talks about the important work of negotiation. It's absolutely clear we need to work with France and Germany, and I want to reassure him that that work has continued and was continuing, alongside, if you like, parallel track alongside the work of President Trump's and was, and we applaud that work, that effort, to get to a negotiating diplomatic solution, but it is a solution that will require Iran giving up its nuclear capability.

It will involve Iran getting serious about what those centrifuges and mountains are ready for. And we are pretty serious, very serious about that. And that is what we were consistent with and that is why we said we would impose very severe sanctions, which would hit once again Iran if we didn't see compliance, and of course he puts on record his views on Gaza and we have exchanged that many times across the chamber.
17:57
17:58
17:59
18:00
18:00
18:01
18:02
18:02
18:03
18:03
18:04
18:05
18:05
18:05
18:06
18:07
18:07
18:08
18:09
18:10
18:10
18:11
18:12
18:12
18:13
18:13
18:14
18:15
18:15
18:16
18:17
18:17
18:18
18:19
18:19
18:20
18:21
18:21
18:22
18:22
18:23
18:23
18:24
18:24
18:25
18:25
18:25
18:26
18:26
18:27
18:27
18:27
18:27
David Lammy Portrait Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Tottenham, Labour)
-
-
Does he agree with me that it's right the U.K.'s part of national unity comes together to urge all sides to show restraint through diplomacy, to prevent Iran acquiring diplomacy, to prevent Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon but it's also right a nuclear weapon but it's also right that the focus is not diverted from Gaza and the rest of occupied the Gaza and the rest of occupied the site to secure the release of hostages back to the family. Every colleague I have spoken to over the colleague I have spoken to over the last few days has emphasised diplomacy and discussion.

I want to reassure her of that. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that the state of Israel has declared policy on the nuclear- weapons of no first use. And there weapons of no first use. And there is no evidence that they however misused or threatened to misuse that misused or threatened to misuse that nuclear weapons in any way nuclear weapons in any way whatsoever? Moreover there is an international law, the right of pre-emptive military action, and it is hard to imagine how this would is hard to imagine how this would not apply at this case.

Would he agree with that matter given that the determination to destroy the state of Israel? state of Israel? The honourable gentleman instrument is experience to these matters but will understand its right and appropriate leave this to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the international lawyers. The nuclear ambitions of a
18:29
18:29
18:30
18:31
18:32
18:32
18:32
18:32
18:32
18:33
18:33
18:34
18:34
18:35
18:36
18:36
18:37
18:37
18:38
18:38
18:39
18:39
18:39
18:40
18:40
18:40
18:41
18:41
18:42
18:42
18:42
18:43
18:43
18:44
18:44
18:45
18:45
18:46
18:47
18:47
None Portrait Ministerial statement: Government Response to Air India Crash
-

With permission Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to update the house on a response to Thursday's devastating air India plane crash. I know the whole house joins me and you in offering heartfelt condolences to all those who lost loved ones in this tragedy. The images of those boarding the flight are heartbreaking. Families across both countries including my constituency, and of course yours, have been shocked and horrified. They are morning and we mourn with them. Official casualties figures are not yet confirmed.

However our understanding is that of 242 passengers and crew, 53 of them are British nationals. And just one has survived. Many also died or were badly injured in the medical College which the plane hit. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has passed on our deepest sympathies to pry Minister Modi. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken to his friend on the day of the crash. The foreign office immediately stood up crisis teams, in London, in Delhi, and in Ahmedabad.

Our High Commissioner in India travelled to Ahmedabad and remained on the ground throughout the weekend visiting the local hospital and the crash site. We have increased consular assistance, and are in contact with all the families of British nationals who have asked for our help. In Ahmedabad, they have set up a UK reception centre to help Jewish nationals. A team of four investigators from the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau arrived on Friday to support work on the ground. That same morning, we also deployed five people at that rapid deployment team to strengthen the supports were offering in person.

We have also supported a British Red Cross psychological support officer now in India helping families cope with the tragic emotional impact. We have also deployed specialist disaster identification experts to the ground, liaising with the Indian authority identification process. Here in the UK, police family liaison officers were deployed over the weekend to support families based here during an incredibly difficult time. We are of course also in regular close contact with Air India about the support package they are offering including full flights and repatriating costs to bring loved ones home.

I understand how frustrating it is for families who have not yet been able to lay their loved ones to rest. And I recognise the pain and frustration that this has caused. The Indian authorities are working around-the- clock with UK support to be able to do this. Unfortunately, these processes take time, but it is important they are done properly to avoid causing more pain to families. At the same time, we are also of course focused on understanding what has happened.

The Indian Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau has accepted the UK's offer of help and the UK team of inspectors are on site. Our High Commissioner met the Gujarat home minister yesterday to offer our support, and the government continues to work tirelessly without Indian partners to establish what happened and support all of those who are grieving. With an Indian Diaspora around 2 million strong here in Britain, and with a particularly prominent Gujarati community, we feel the pain of this tragedy together.

It reminds us not only of the deep personal ties between our people, but also of the strength of our partnership with India. A partnership built on trust, shared values, and mutual support in times of crisis. Just over one week ago, the Foreign Secretary was in Delhi celebrating the conclusion of trade talks, discussing expansion of our strategic partnership, and meeting so many dedicated to strengthening the ties between us. In the face of the ties between us. In the face of such profound loss, UK stand shoulder to shoulder with India.

Not only in grief but in our shared resolve to ensure that those we have resolve to ensure that those we have lost are never forgotten. I commend this statement to the House.
18:52
18:53
Priti Patel Portrait Rt Hon Priti Patel MP (Witham, Conservative)
-
-
women and children on Air India flight 7171 from Ahmedabad to Gatwick on Thursday are beyond Gatwick on Thursday are beyond distressing and upsetting. It is distressing and upsetting. It is still difficult to compare the scale of this tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers continue to be with everyone affected, in particular the families affected, in particular the families of relatives of the lost ones. Our thoughts are those in hospital who have suffered injuries. And with have suffered injuries. And with Vishwashkumar Ramesh whose survival is a miracle but he sadly lost his brother.

Many of those who died were British, 52, and many families in British, 52, and many families in the UK will have lost loved ones were also Indian nationals too. Over the last few days we have started to the last few days we have started to hear of the lives of those who died in the grief their families are going through. The loss of a man and his wife and their four-year-old daughter. Two children from London, and a couple from Leicester who had gone to India to celebrate their engagement.

Forgnal and Jamie Meek And the Minister. The passing of those who died and the pain that they are all experiencing is clearly unimaginable. Following this tragedy we have seen communities come together all over in places of worship to pray and seek comfort in these difficult times. A vigil is being organised by the Indian high commission, the community will come together to reflect and pray. I together to reflect and pray. I thank the team for their support and kindness and consumer support.

I pay tribute to all of those offering support to communities across the country who have been affected, and the support shown that Trooping the Colour on Saturday would have been appreciated. I want to put on record our thanks to the emergency services in India for their response. The in India for their response. The FCDO has set up a reception centre at a hotel in Ahmedabad, but concerns have been raised this afternoon that is not enough British presence on the ground at the hospital, and elsewhere where families are going to identify the loved ones.

The Minister may have seen the statement issued earlier by three families referring to an inadequate and painfully slow government reaction. They also said UK leadership and medical teams are stationed at the hospital and clearly they are asking the government to step up its presence on the ground in Ahmedabad. I know the Minister has already said this is an incredibly difficult and difficult and we understand it. What is the Minister's response following the statement this afternoon? What changes has he made to provide the assistance needed because this deeply harrowing and very difficult to understand the circumstances in which the local hospital and the mortuary are operating.

Can he guarantee consular support will be in place for as long as necessary? The pain families are going through is unimaginable. An identifying and returning bodies of their loved ones to enable funerals is clearly going to take some time. Forensics are obviously being used to help identify bodies and families will be providing samples to help the awful process. Can the minister give an update on any support the UK is providing to help this process, and the forensic work that needs to take place? Does the Minister know how many bodies have been identified? Can you give assurances that the work is taking place across government and with local authorities and in the communities affected here in the UK will ensure that counselling and trauma support services are available? Especially for children who have lost very close family members.

The families affected deserve answers to know what happens to the plane, and thoughts are turning to those investigations that are taking place. We know it is early days can the Minister give information on any conversations that have taken place with counterparts in India regarding the investigations, also with Boeing. We welcome the involvement of officials from our air accident investigation Branch. Can the Minister give assurances that they will have the support they need to assist Indian authorities on? On the course of the crash will the Minister confirmed they will work with the Indian government to get answers and provide updates to families? Last Thursday was a dark and sad and traumatic day for India.

The UK and all those affected wherever they are in the world. I'm sure we all speak the whole house when I say that we stand with them in seeking answers. We stand with

**** Possible New Speaker ****

them in working to give them the support they need, and we stand with them in morning the sad deaths of their loved ones. Minister.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Minister. I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary for the tone of the
18:57
Hamish Falconer Portrait Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
-
-
questions. She rightly points to the scale, this is the single largest loss of British life in an aviation accident since 9/11. And I think one of the single largest losses for British life overseas in one incident for a long time. 10 years ago practically this month I was as part of the dramatic service on the ground after a terrible tragedy abroad. I know well the anguish for families. She asks the important question about the mortuary process, particularly traumatic in somebody else's country.

I can confirm that any British national who wishes consular assistance to go through that process will have it from my officials. She raises rightly the questions raised by some of the families about a reception centre and presence at the hospital. Since becoming aware of those reports, we have sent officials to the hospital. You're not aware of British nationals congregating their full stop I have asked officials to review the signage and general arrangement to ensure they know where a reception centre is.

The hotel where our reception centre is as close to the airport because we thought that would be the best place to receive British nationals rather than hospital where tragically there are British nationals. We keep these questions under review. No in tragedies like this it is difficult to get the assistance British nationals need right first time. We learn lessons as we go through. I have spoken to some of the families

**** Possible New Speaker ****

who made some of these points. Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee des Emily Thornberry. With the Minister please convey
18:59
18:59
18:59
Helen Maguire Portrait Helen Maguire MP (Epsom and Ewell, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
want to begin by associating myself with his remarks and those of other colleagues in the House as to our collective grief and shock that so many lives have been lost in this appalling crash. 53 UK citizens. I would also express my condolences to the families of all those lost their lives. This will be utterly devastating for them. It is vital that the government ensures they are fully supported. What reassurances cavernous to provide that each of the families is receiving the support that they need and is being kept updated with all new developments in relation to the crash? It suggests that investigators have received the voice recorder which should provide insights as to why the plane went down.

British and American teams are on the ground supporting the aircraft accident and inquiry. I want to thank them both their work and ask the Minister what steps are being taken to support them and other investigators to ensure that no stone is left unturned in the search for answers. A British citizen, Vishwashkumar Ramesh, was the only survivor. And I speak the whole House in expressing his relief that he is alive. But also recognising what traumatic expenses will have been for him including having to come to terms with the loss of his brother Ajay who was also on the flight.

Can the government outline what support is being provided to him and his family both to enable his physical recovery both to enable his physical recovery
19:01
19:02
19:02
19:03
19:04
19:04
19:05
19:05
19:06
19:06
19:07
19:07
19:08
19:08
19:09
19:09
19:10
19:11
19:12
19:12
19:14
19:14
19:15
19:16
19:16
19:17
19:17
19:18
19:19
19:19
19:21
19:22
19:23
19:24
19:24
19:25
19:25
Hamish Falconer Portrait Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
-
-
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I associate myself the comments of the Minister, shadow Foreign Secretary, and many others across this house and expressing condolences was my thoughts have condolences was my thoughts have been with the families and friends and people who have lost loved ones in the India crash. I represent a in the India crash. I represent a lot of people in my constituents. That includes group of wonderful That includes group of wonderful families who have sent me here today with questions for the Minister.

On behalf of one of their representatives, can I ask, what support is the UK government providing to the families in the UK who have lost loved ones? In who have lost loved ones? In addition, what support can the government provide the wider government provide the wider community following the impact of this horrific crash? Madam Deputy Speaker, for families who have chosen to remain in the UK, the Family Liaison Officer has been appointed by their relevant police force who should be in contact over the weekend.

And any members who think there is any gaps in this, I would like them to be in touch with me. Hopefully every affected family will now have hurt either from the foreign office or from their relevant police force. And we will continue to keep all of that under review.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the Minister for his statement this evening. Ask any statement this evening. Ask any members who are leaving to do so quickly and quietly before I move on quickly and quietly before I move on We now come to motion under one relating to the business of the House today. Minister to move. The
19:27
19:27
None Portrait Motion: Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (Policy Framework and Assurance Board)
-

Assurance Board. I informed the House that the speaker has selected the following is listed on the Order
19:27
None Portrait Motion: Business of the House (Today)
-

Paper. A, B, C, D, and E. I call the
19:28
None Portrait Motion: Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (Policy Framework and Assurance Board)
-



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Leader of the House to move the motion. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I
19:28
19:28
19:29
19:29
None Portrait Motion: Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (Policy Framework and Assurance Board)
-

agreed in 2018 with cross-party support. The ICGS provides dedicated independent mechanism for handling complaints, bullying, harassment, or
19:29
Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
-
-
complaints, bullying, harassment, or sexual misconduct in both houses. It deals with those complaints deals with those complaints assiduously and anonymously with professional, well resourced team, and has a range of appropriate sanctions and mechanisms at its disposal. The ICGS works alongside disposal. The ICGS works alongside the Independent Expert Panel which determines appeals and sanctions for determines appeals and sanctions for cases that have been brought against members of Parliament. These arrangements ensure complaints are investigated fairly, objectively, and to a high standard.

The ICGS has been an important driver in establishing high standards and improved culture in Parliament. We should all support it. I thank the ICGS for its continued work and in particular the contribution of its director, Theo Walton, will be stepping down from her role later this year. Last year, Parliament published the findings of an independent review into the effectiveness of the ICGS conducted by Paul Kernaghan. The review broadly praised the performance of the ICGS, with Paul Kernaghan being clear, the ICGS is making a difference to standards in Parliament.

It has demonstrated its ability to hold people to account unacceptable behaviour. He said " The ICGS is something the Parliamentary Commissioner should take pride in. " The review found the scheme has continued to take positive steps to improve timeliness and quality of its service. Of course there is always more work to be done. Its ambition should rightly to be the gold standard in workplace grievance schemes. In total, the review made 26 recommendations. Of these, eight have already been delivered, and a further eight will be taken forward should the motion before the House today be agreed.

Work on the remaining recommendations is underway. These are recommendations from an independent review of the independent grievances scheme of this house. They really should not be contentious. The first recommendation is to consolidate the various policy and procedure documents into one policy document And the existing insurance group should become a board. Yes?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I am looking through this document, and the amendments, two of the amendments they put forward talk the amendments they put forward talk about the size of the insurance board, is it the feeling of the board, is it the feeling of the independent and that is valuation of the independent process that this is the right size and we do not need

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the amendments? I do not think we need those amendments, the insurance board is amendments, the insurance board is made up of representatives of both made up of representatives of both houses, of the HR departments and other appropriate people, as it should be, and including a member of should be, and including a member of this House he will be contrary to shortly, he was a member of the shortly, he was a member of the commission as well, so I think the insurance board make-up is right, as proposed.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

proposed. I thank the Leader of the House for giving way, and I want to make a declaration of interest, in my office, there is many trade union reps, so very good at what he does,. I want to ask about what consideration had been given to the ICG S assurance board about there being representation for either the House or MP staff unions to be

**** Possible New Speaker ****

either permanent members or how the board engages with the unions in this place. I thank her for that question and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank her for that question and put on record my thanks to Max and many others, Ken and others, who many others, Ken and others, who have done great work representing those who work in this House, those who work in this House, whether for an MP House staff, I think the role that the trade unions think the role that the trade unions place is absolutely important. Their role within this process should be recognised. Both the House staff and recognised.

Both the House staff and members staff break -- trade unions are represented on the stakeholder are represented on the stakeholder group and the ICG S have an obligation to consult stakeholders before any proposals are brought to the insurance board but I want to put on record that I hope that ICG S put on record that I hope that ICG S continues to do that closely because I think trade unions provide a valuable voice to the operation of the ICG S and that should continue.

The assurance board will scrutinise the day-to-day performance of the ICG S and ensure that investigations are timely and of a high quality. This body would also have responsibility for updating the ICG S besiegers document but only that document. I will give way.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Can I thank the Leader of the House for bringing this forward, she House for bringing this forward, she is right, no one should have any doubts about the reasoning for this doubts about the reasoning for this and nobody should have any opposition to it, I understand that there won't be any opposition but would the Leader of the House perhaps quickly outline the process for those who have a grievance or for those who have a grievance or have a complaint and how that have a complaint and how that happens, whether that be for members awful staff as well, so that staff

**** Possible New Speaker ****

awful staff as well, so that staff know all of their rights. Can I thank for that, it is important that we do advertise this important that we do advertise this service, he is right to do that, and any member of staff or any$$JOIN... any member of staff or any$$JOIN... Indeed, any Member of Parliament or anybody working in the community, the broader Parliamentary committee, who has been subject to bullying, harassment, sexual misconduct, should get in touch, there is a helpline, there are well advertised ways to get in touch, not just to make a complaint but can advice about whether their complaint is one that is in scope or whether it is one that can be taken forward, as I said earlier, there is a range of means that the ICG S have, it does not always involve a full investigation, the ICG S might often come to some resolution and other means by which any such behaviour could be resolved, so can I thank him for raising that, it is important, just to be clear with the House, the policy framework of the ICG S remains a matter for this House.

That includes definitions, parameters, obligations and rights and permissions of the scheme, as well as the scope. I have laid in the library a letter from the ICG S that sets out the difference between policy and procedure. Because I know that is of concern to people. There are a couple of other recommendations from the review that colleagues might want and update on which are not a matter of the motion today. Recommendation three, which ask that political parties work more closely with the ICG S when dealing with complaints through a memorandum of understanding is being taken forward by the Modernisation Committee, with the cooperation of the political parties and I thank all of those concerned for that.

The House has taken forward recommendations on behaviour training, as of the end of March 2025, 639 out of 639/650 new and returning MPs have attended behaviour training. Taken together, the recommendations from the review will improve ICG S employment -- performance, provide greater clarity about workmates should go and speed up changes to the day-to-day procedure. In total, they will improve behaviour and culture in this place. This is an important moment for the House to come together, I hope, on a cross-party basis and show that we stand behind the ICG S, what it stands for, the work it does and we will improve and take forward the independent recommendations to keep improving the work.

I do have to say, I am disappointed that the Frontbench opposite have broken with years of consensus on this matter. To oppose some of the changes being proposed, that came from an independent reviewer. I see that the unborn member for Christchurch is not in his place, despite his amendments being selected, his amendment, supported by the Conservative frontbench, undermines the integrity of the review recommendations and I cannot support them, I hope the shadow Leader takes an opportunity to distance himself from that.

The reputation of Parliament is low, poor trust in politics and politicians and it is for all of us to turn the page on that era, the safety of those who work on the estate is paramount, I am clear, as I'm sure everyone is, there is no place for bullying, harassment, or sexual harassment in Parliament and those who perpetrate it should be accountable sanctioned where necessary. I commend these regulations to House and I call on all members from all sides to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

support the improvements. The question that motion number
19:38
Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
-
-


**** Possible New Speaker ****

The question that motion number two, as on the Order Paper. Shadow Leader of the House.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Leader of the House. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I speak to the motion, specifically I speak to the motion, specifically to the amendment in my name on the Order Paper. As the Leader has said, the House has developed this... Successive administrations have supported, across this chamber, the development of the independent scheme, it was initiated in 2017, under the Conservative government, and it has always been developed on a collaborative and cross-party basis. And, in that context, it is a pity, it is surprising and disappointing, that the government should be putting this business of the House motion when it has not been agreed in that collaborative way.

And, indeed, whipping its own members, to sell highly unusual. Our position has always been that these matters should be worked through, together through the usual channels, and through the senior bodies of the House in the period of consensus. In

**** Possible New Speaker ****

that spirit, I will not be putting the amendment in my name to a fruit. Thank you, I thank the honourable

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way, I am concerned the amendments put forward concerned the amendments put forward would face the independence. Glad to hear he is not putting it to a vote. hear he is not putting it to a vote. And does he support the ICG S or would they, if in government, make changes.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

changes. This is a conservative body, it was developed in a cross-party was developed in a cross-party basis, there is nothing, as far as I am aware, that would make it anything other than a continued, anything other than a continued, independent body, in order to suppress and prevent the abuses we suppress and prevent the abuses we are familiar with. When it was... Before it was brought into being. It has been... It has not been without its problems, it is in the nature of the houses obligations that we do not always hear about these problems but, broadly speaking, it has been successful.

But, of course, that is that there is no problem that this motion, as it is developed, and the point of conflict between my side of the House and Billy decide, there is no problem that this motion seeking to address, and let me explain in more detail, as the motion lays out, the issue is not about a policy, as it is framed, but supposedly about procedure, and the insurance board has many members, it is not simply composed of parliamentarians, it includes clerk assistance, members of both houses, the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, the member of the House of Lords conduct committee, members of the human resources teams of both houses, the proposal is that this body should be able to set rules for members of this House without the House itself having any say in the matter.

This is not about the content of the policy of the board, it is about the question of what to say the House has in relation to rules being sent for everybody affected by the ICG S but in particular, members of this House, it is nonsense to suggest... It is nonsense to suggest that it is difficult or involves any delay to they emotion of the House, as we have suggested, our position is simple, there should be emotion before the House to approve or disapprove any decision taken.

And, of course, those motions can be laid in a very short period of time, literally in a day or two, perhaps even overnight. Therefore, there can be no proper suggestion of a delay in the mentation of decisions made, therefore no reason as to why this should not be a matter for the House

**** Possible New Speaker ****

to decide. It is surprising that the honourable gentleman takes this position, given that generally his party is associated with deregulation and removing bureaucracy, what he is describing bureaucracy, what he is describing is a situation that actually create additional bureaucracy around

**** Possible New Speaker ****

additional bureaucracy around independent organisations, That is not true, the motions of

**** Possible New Speaker ****

That is not true, the motions of this House are not traditionally regarded as the sea, they cut regarded as the sea, they cut through it because they allow us to get to a decision very quickly. And get to a decision very quickly. And transparency. The trouble comes when you have decisions made that do not you have decisions made that do not have that transparency and do not have the simplicity and speed of action and that is what we are action and that is what we are opposed to.

As I have said, the present proposals draw distinction and would mandate the insurance board on its own behalf. Of course, the board only contains one member of the House of Commons and that person is nominated, rather than elected. The insurance board potentially has wide-ranging and coercive powers and those powers are almost entirely to be exercised by people outside any direct framework of democratic accountability, potentially to overturn decisions made by an MPs constituents at the ballot box. The House has been concerned about the exercise of such powers for at least 400 years.

The motion draws a distinction between policy and procedures, procedure, of course, includes, contrary to the suggestion, important matters, the review set out a table of potential changes. They included changing whether somebody may be accompanied to an ICG S interview, I pointed out this is an issue of powers as well as procedure, they have the ability to empower people under review to bring another person along to an interview or prevent them from doing so, this reflects a policy decision about what might be fair or just under the circumstances, it is not a matter of procedure.

It also$$JOIN... The review also included, as an illustration, changing the timing of when the commission is notified of misconduct, whether that might be before or after an initial assessment. This reflects a tacit policy judgement about what a just process would be, these judgements show that there is no harm make hard distinction to be drawn here in the underline that these are matters not for officials, not for unelected people, but for members of this House, acting through this House.

It sets rules, let I remind the House, not merely for mums apartment, but 15,000 passholders and this might be unclear, tourists and visitors to the palace. It is not accountable to any other body. The decision today, to reject amendment E, we are not moving it, that will be the decision, will be in one of decision to give up the powers of scrutiny that will be impossible to reverse. At a time when more and more decisions are taken by people not This is absolutely deplorable.

All we have said on our side is that any decision that in this case should be taken by, that is taken by people who are not meant as a parliament should be placed before this House in line with its constitutional status and the Bill of Rights 1689. It has a ways been a procedure in this House not to recognise superior let alone bureaucratic or anything

**** Possible New Speaker ****

else. I am grateful to the right

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I am grateful to the right honourable gentleman. I should say that I'm proud to serve on the that I'm proud to serve on the committee. My previous role before coming into the space I gave evidence as part of my previous evidence as part of my previous role. Listening to the right honourable gentleman carefully, I struggle slightly to understand the point he's drawing. I point to what I understand might relate to the constitution of the Conservative constitution of the Conservative party but I can't be sure because unlike the Labour Party, the unlike the Labour Party, the Conservative party don't regularly publish this.

I'm looking one from 2021. Looking at issues regarding 2021. Looking at issues regarding disciplinary matters, the Conservative party empowers an Conservative party empowers an Ethics and Integrity Commission which is an independent committee empowered to determine conduct and if rules are broken. It is made up of a host of independent QCs and the chairman of the 1922 committee. One things says this community committee will be the master of its own decisions. Why does that not apply to us in this House?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

If I may say so, I don't know who we gave evidence to but that extraordinarily misconceived the idea. This House is a democratically elected chamber. It has been the elected chamber. It has been the constitutional doctrine of the United Kingdom for hundreds of years that you have no superior. That is what we are contesting for the what may or may not be the case in some may or may not be the case in some other body that he is dragged into this conversation in a way that rather reaches the spirit of cross- party discussion, what may or may not be the case, I am surprised you not be the case, I am surprised you allowed it Madam Deputy Speaker, but what may or may not be the case with what may or may not be the case with any other party is completely relevant because we are describing a legislative body democratically

**** Possible New Speaker ****

legislative body democratically elected by the people of this country. Rachel Blake. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to declare an interest. I am a member of the House of Commons Commission. I have been nominated onto the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme advisory group by the House of Commons Commission. So I'm actually a member of this group that we are discussing today. When I was first elected along with my colleagues from 2024, I attended the training on the ICGS.

I have to say I was deeply sobered by some of the appalling behaviour that I heard about in terms of the examples of why the ICGS had to bring in. I am very grateful for the ICGS being in
19:50
Rachel Blake Portrait Rachel Blake MP (Cities of London and Westminster, Labour )
-
-
place. I know that my staff are, and other members of the Parliamentary unity are grateful that we do have this independent process through this independent process through which people can bring their complaints and grievances. I fundamentally disagree with the fundamentally disagree with the characterisation that the shadow Leader of the House has brought forward in terms of the scheme. I forward in terms of the scheme. I disagree with the way in which the powers of the advisory group have powers of the advisory group have been characterised.

At no point does been characterised. At no point does the advisory group have that chance to make any particular judgements to make any particular judgements about individuals. The role of the advisory board is as has been set out by this leader of the in terms of governing the procedures which would establish how the operation of would establish how the operation of the scheme should work through its independent investigators. I think without having an Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme for this Parliamentary community, we would be far poorer.

In this day and age where we see trust and confidence in politicians at an all-time low, it is vital that we are open to scrutiny. That we attract all the possible talent into the Parliamentary community and they will only do that they feel safe to work here, and that we have a confidence that there is that independent scheme available to everybody that chooses to work here so they can do their jobs in a safe way. I hope everybody does support this motion going forward.

I do welcome the opportunity to celebrate the positive work that has been put into this by the Leader of the House. I think it is very regrettable that all of the work that Leader of the House has put in to trying to encourage them to be cross-party support for this was not recognised in the shadow Leader of the House and his remarks. The characterisation of that discussion was not representative of what has actually taken place. I do look forward to there being more support from other members of this House maps from other parties who recognise the vital importance of an independent scheme like this for the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

whole Parliamentary unity. Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Liberal Democrat spokesperson. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am very pleased to support this am very pleased to support this motion which is Leader of the House says has been as a result of the review, an independent review ICGS review, an independent review ICGS that was published last year. The review's recommendations clearly included the creation of an ICGS included the creation of an ICGS Policy Framework, and the formalisation of the ICGS insurance formalisation of the ICGS insurance formalisation of the ICGS insurance group into an Assurance Board.

With responsibility for the creation of future changes of the ICGS processes future changes of the ICGS processes document, what this motion is designed to implement is set out and I'm happy to support it. The public are understandably fed up with what
19:52
Marie Goldman Portrait Marie Goldman MP (Chelmsford, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
are understandably fed up with what many perceive as excepted poor behaviour from those elected to represent them. Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme, the ICGS is designed to help restore that trust to ensure that poor behaviour is dealt with swiftly and appropriately. But that cannot be done if MPs are constantly marking their own homework. If it is thought that there are attempts to relate the system, to try to wriggle out of the tight spots for political gain, we will have no chance of regaining trust that has been eroded especially over recent years.

That is why I'm so disappointed to see the amendments that have been tabled after so many years of trust being eroded, we need to find a way to bring that trust back and that is what the scheme does. Let me explain a little bit about what I mean going through amendments. Amendment A would remove the right to make collective complaints, making it harder for complainants with the same issue to support each other in coming forward. It would also prevent the ICGS from accepting a complaint from someone that is substantially the same as a complaint they have previously withdrawn.

This would worry me, as I don't find it hard to imagine a scenario where complainant has been, how shall I put this, encouraged to withdraw their complaint, perhaps alongside promises of improved behaviour. But that the complainant subsequently feels the need and has the courage to raise the issues again. This amendment would prevent them from being able to come forward again. Amendment B, C, D appeared to be a blatant attempt to stack the mentorship of the Assurance Board so it can be politically manipulated. Amendment E trashes the recommendation from the review that the ICGS Assurance Board should be able to receive and review and approve ICGS rules.

It should be able to make changes to procedures was the this is to speed up a process that the review found to be unduly cumbersome and impacted by

**** Possible New Speaker ****

political considerations. I thank the honourable lady four

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the honourable lady four giving way. I'm trying to get my head around the amendments but I think what she's trying to suggest think what she's trying to suggest is what we want to do is ensure we have a procedure where they cannot be a political influence on be a political influence on be a political influence on decisions that are being made. And to ensure they don't get away with it.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

it. I thank the object and for his contribution. Unfortunately this is what the amendments are designed to do is that is why I cannot support them. I think they are a blatant them. I think they are a blatant attack and an attempt to neglect the system. I think that is totally wrong. In short, I support this motion I do not support any of the amendments. I encourage members

**** Possible New Speaker ****

across the house to do the same. I only intend to speak briefly in

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I only intend to speak briefly in this debate. I wish to draw the attention of the house to my role as chair of the Parliamentary group of the GMB which represents the largest number of workers on the Parliamentary Estate. And the register of financial interests. Parliament is on the whole a more Parliament is on the whole a more professional, safer, and sober place to work with it once was. Such progress is no excuse for progress is no excuse for complacency.

Predatory behaviour can complacency. Predatory behaviour can occur anywhere risk factors are higher here. I would like to pay tribute to all the workplace representatives who work quietly representatives who work quietly down the years to raise standards and challenge poor practices in this place. I welcome steps outlined in the motion to clarify and strengthen the ICGS. I also wish to comment
19:57
Laurence Turner Portrait Laurence Turner MP (Birmingham Northfield, Labour)
-
-
briefly on the opposition amendments, the shadow leader of the house did say that amendment E not house did say that amendment E not be moved. We did not hear about amendment A which stands in the name of a backbench MP but is co-signed by the shadow deputy Chief Whip. If by the shadow deputy Chief Whip. If I have understood this amendment correctly, it would not strike out the scope for collective complaints. It would block the investigation of It would block the investigation of complaints if a police investigation has not resulted in a conviction even though the standard of proof is different in that regard.

They also different in that regard. They also as far as I can tell would prevent the reinvestigation of a complaint the reinvestigation of a complaint if the respondent succeeds in persuading or pressurising the complainant into withdrawing, the point that was made powerfully by the honourable Member from Chelmsford. In this case, amendment A, I think the cover for abuse would provide if it was carried is plain and apparent. It is a matter of deep regret that it appears to have some degree of sponsorship from the opposition.

While I do not wish to depart today from the recommendations of the reports, I do wish to raise some matters in relation to workforce representation. We have already heard that the workforce representatives in this place will continue to be consulted, and that is welcome. I would also welcome it if the Leader of the House confirm whether workforce representatives would be able to attend meetings of the Assurance Board in an observatory capacity. It would also be good to hear from the leader whether there is scope in the future for direct representation of those workforce voices on the Assurance Board, a measure which would improve its functioning.

I know the leader recently met with GMP reps to discuss these concerns. I hope she will be in a position to comment further tonight. Finally, some 7000 people support the work of parliamentarians. They all deserve to work in a modern environment, secure in the knowledge that a robust and independent process exists to provide accountability and redress if they are mistreated. The politicisation of these processes in recent years is deeply regrettable.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I hope the cross-party support for them can be swiftly restored. Chair the Standards Committee Alberto Costa. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I begin by welcoming the governments motion to put the governments motion to put the Assurance Board on a proper footing and to introduce a clear policy and to introduce a clear policy framework under which the ICGS operates. The ICGS is, as some operates. The ICGS is, as some colleagues have said, an extremely important Parliamentary workplace important Parliamentary workplace scheme. Covering all members of the Parliamentary community, over Parliamentary community, over 10,000.

Unusually for a body set up only six years ago by a former only six years ago by a former Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom, it has had a number of reviews
19:59
Alberto Costa Portrait Alberto Costa MP (South Leicestershire, Conservative)
-
-
it has had a number of reviews highlighting concerns with the operation of the scheme. And making recommendations to this House. The most recent review is one from which today's government motion has its genesis, inserting in setting up the permanent functions of the ICGS will stop I welcome the honourable ladies from the City of London and Westminster onto that board. Why are we here today? The ICGS has experienced a number of concerning process issues since it was set up.

Particularly in respect of the quality of its investigations and the excessive time delays in processing those investigations. In order to ensure that complainant and respondent trust the ICGS, it is of paramount importance that the Assurance Board going forward ensures that the issues and what is encountered in the investigation processes are resolved. And that complainant and respondent are subject to a process with a credible It is not acceptable, that complainants and respondents can sometimes have to wait years for an outcome, for instance, on the bullying.

The committee and standards is prohibited from involvement in individual ICG S cases. Preserving the independence of those investigations is absolutely vital, both to the success of those investigations and to the confidence of those who seek the aid of the ICG S and those investigated under the scheme. But the ICG S is part of the wider standards landscape within this House and the committee and standards has a useful voice in highlighting how the scheme is operating and commenting on policy.

In the standard landscape report, produced shortly before the last general election, our predecessors and some of those individuals remain members of the committee, particularly the lay members, had not had time to consider the recommendations of the review. Paragraph 17 of the report, the previous Standards Committee recommended to this House that the new committee, of which I chair, should continue to consider the analysis and recommendations contained in the review. As chair of the committee, I can inform the House that the committee have since had discussions about the work of the ICG S with the director, and a right thanks -- I would like to put on record my thanks.

The committee is due to discuss the work further next week. Owing to the pressure of other work, notably the complex enquiry that we have undertaken at the request of the Modernisation Committee, and the Leader of the House, the committee has not had time to consider all of the recommendations. But we will continue to make this a focus of the work during the Parliament. Members might note the proposed assurance would contain a member of the House of Lords conduct committee, not a member of the Standards Committee in the Commons.

Dame Laura Cox, in her report on the bullying and harassment of Commons staff, recommended the processes to determine such complaints should be entirely independent of members of Parliament. That is, of course, what this House adopted. The House of Lords is responsible for its own processes, and it's committee retains a greater role for this House's committee in these matters. I want to emphasise that it is absolutely proper that MPs should not be involved in determining complaints.

There might be scope for involvement in the policy framework surrounding complaints, I have not sought to amend this motion today, as I said, I welcome it. But given the involvement in policy does not equate to interference and complaints, nor should it, it might be worth revisiting in the future, since the Lords committee will be represented, whether this House's Committee on Standards ought to be represented. And a valuable member voice, by member I do not just mean an MP, but a lay member of the committee.

Beyond the commission might not be useful. I do not expect the Leader to respond today because it is proper that the Committee on Standards gives full consideration as recommended and approved by this House. Once it has had the opportunity to do so, it might revert, with further recommendations, on how today's mission might be enhanced. As we go forward together, on a cross-party basis, seeking to ensure that we have the best parliamentary workplace scheme in place, with the appropriate Parliamentary stakeholders included in this assurance board.

I would end by acknowledging what some of the members have said about trade unions, only a few hours ago, the Parliamentary staff branch emailed all MPs on this very point. I think the point that I made about the committee of standards sit well with Unite Parliamentary staff branches views on ensuring that all relevant stakeholders are included, as I have

**** Possible New Speaker ****

said, in this assurance board. Thank you, and I thank all

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, and I thank all members for participating in this debate and the spirit of that debate as well. Can I start by thanking the chair of the Standards Committee for
20:06
Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
-
-
chair of the Standards Committee for his committee's work in this space and many other spaces, they own a huge service to this House in upholding standards and ensuring they are operating and the best behaviours at all times. Can I also join him in thanking Andrea Leadsom, who I have a great deal of respect for, for her work setting up the ICG S, he is right to say, there have been concerns, especially when the ICG S was set up, about the timeliness, some processes and the quality of some of that work.

As the review found, that is significantly improving and steps have been taken but I want to be clear that the motion before this House today will further accelerate that in making sure that processes are as effective as they can be. I certainly will... I do expect the Standards Committee to take a key interest in the work, that is part of the remit and I look forward to any further recommendations and as a shadow Leader outlined, I want to be clear that policy, the policy remains a matter for this House and that includes definitions of what might be deemed bullying, harassment or sexual misconduct, the parameters and scope of the scheme at all times, the obligations on people who make complaints and those who are witnesses, the right to make collective complaints, the right to receive draft assessment report and the decision-making right to reject, and so on, they remain matters of policy, not procedure.

This House will retain a right over it.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the Leader of the House of forgiving way, she referenced of forgiving way, she referenced earlier that scope is something that the Modernisation Committee was looking at and it forms part of policy rather than procedure. Can policy rather than procedure. Can she give an indication as to when that might becoming forward to further take forward the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

recommendations. The issue was covered in the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The issue was covered in the review and he was really clear that scope of the ICG S is where this scope of the ICG S is where this involves any members of the parliamentary community. There have parliamentary community. There have been times where that scope has been been times where that scope has been narrowed unintentionally, operationally, what the Modernisation Committee is looking at is recommendation number three at is recommendation number three which relates to a memorandum of understanding between the political parties and the ICG S in relation to how they deal with complaints so that, I think we can all agree, where complaints are in scope of the ICG S, they should go to the ICG S and not political parties which, unfortunately, have found themselves not able to deal with the complaints in this way.

That is not just a matter for the Modernisation Committee, it is an issue for the parties as well, we are making folks of that, tickling with the Labour Party, who is keen to engage. I will not detain colleagues much longer, I will pick up on a few points, thanks to the Member for her brilliant contributions and all of the work she is doing on the commission and on the assurance board. As ever, my colleague on the commission committee, the member for Chelmsford, who made an excellent contribution on why amendments really are cutting amendments and we should not support them.

The Member for Birmingham Northfield, just put on record my thanks, again, to the trade union reps who operate in this House, they absolutely should be involved through the stakeholder group, in formal consultation about group, in formal consultation about any changes, after this debate, I will make an approach to the ICG S that they consider that trade unions attend meetings in the same capacity that they come to the House commission and make representations because I think that will be important.

I just want to finally take on the shadow leaders arguments that he made in his opening, first, these are not my proposals, these are not government proposals, this is a business of the House mission in my name, this is how to get the slaughterhouse, these are proposals put forward by an independent review, that all critical parties, all members of this House, have the opportunity to contribute to, of an independent grievance scheme, which has, rightly, improved behaviour and standards.

They are not my proposals, they are indicative proposals and they are not the rules, that is just wrong, they will be looking at procedures and how those procedures can be streamlined and made more effective, as I have read out, the rules, policies, will continue to beset by this House, but I really do think it is about time we moved on from this age old argument that members of this House has a right to behave however they want and the only time they are accountable for that is at the ballot box, five years later, that is the argument, I think he was proposing, I'm sorry, we put the argument bed a long time ago and I think the chair of the Standards Committee agrees that we put that to bed a long time ago.

If colleagues, cross party, support the ICG S, support the improvements it has brought in behaviour and culture in this House, if it wants to see that body become more effective and having more timely and quality investigations, then colleagues need to support this motion today because, as others have said, we all have a duty to reassure that this, as a workplace, somewhere that people can work safely, securely and free from bullying, harassment and bad behaviour.
20:13
20:14
20:16
Helen Hayes Portrait Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
-
-
they include passengers Alfred Gardner, who I had the privilege to meet at the 70th anniversary reception. And big John Richards, reception. And big John Richards, reception. And big John Richards, and pioneers, Enid Jackson, Claudette Williams, Lord Herman Claudette Williams, Lord Herman Easley, the former Chief Executive of Lambeth Council, Norman Mitchell, of Lambeth Council, Norman Mitchell, and my constituent, Neil Flanagan. and my constituent, Neil Flanagan. Their loss is an important reminder of the importance of capturing the of the importance of capturing the stories, the oral histories that are part of our national story, whilst part of our national story, whilst part of our national story, whilst In 1948 UK was desperate for Labour to rebuild following the Second World War and the passengers on the Windrush brought skills.

They served in the RAF during the war and played a hugely significant role in fighting fascism in Europe. Including the late Samuel King who became the first black mayor of Southwark. Windrush passengers from the Caribbean travelled as British citizens as a result of the British Nationality Act 1948 which created a new category of citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies for anyone born or naturalised in either the UK or any other countries subject to colonial rule. About 200 of the Windrush passengers found temporary accommodation at the Clapham South deep air raid shelter from where they found themselves to the nearest labour exchange in Brixton in my constituency, to look for work and permanent accommodation.

Many of them found accommodation with Jamaican landlord Gus Lesley who bought property in and around, and they settled in the area close to what is now called Windrush Square. The Windrush passengers found London still devastated by the war and they found work in a wide variety of different sectors of the economy including in construction and on London's public transport network. It is fitting that one of the London overground lines has now been named the Windrush line. And many of the passengers came to work in the NHS was established formally less than a fortnight later.

King's College Hospital was at the other end of Coldharbour Lane from the site of the labour exchange in my constituency. Members of the Windrush generation have helped to sustain our NHS from its inception, not only in London but right across the country.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my constituency neighbour for making such a powerful speech. for making such a powerful speech. Does she recognise the value and contribution of the Windrush generations of staff King's College Hospital, and in her constituency equally the valuable contribution and the powerful statue at St

**** Possible New Speaker ****

George's Hospital? I thank my honourable friend for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for her intervention. Of course in our borough of Lambeth, the two boroughs borough of Lambeth, the two boroughs of Lambeth and Southwark the contribution of the Windrush generation is extraordinary and it is demonstrated most powerfully in is demonstrated most powerfully in the statue that she mentions. The lives of Windrush passengers and lives of Windrush passengers and others who followed them to Brixton were captured by commercial were captured by commercial photographer Henry Jacobs who set up photography providing photographic services to people could send images to their loved ones.

His photos captured in a poignant way the hope streams and achievements of people in the process of making a new life. A woman in her nurses uniform, families dressed in their Sunday best, showing off their best and first images of a new baby or new spouse. As we remember the stories with affection, we must avoid any sentimentality. The contribution of the Windrush pioneers was made in the context of widespread racism. The most clear and ugly illustration of which was signed on the doors of boarding houses reading " No Irish, no blacks, no dogs.

" In many situations it runs much deeper often resulting in daily discrimination and remediation. An egregious example is the unaddressed scandal of black children being deemed of black children being deemed emotionally subnormal in the 1960s and 70s and placed in special schools where they were denied an education and made to feel inferior.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

These experiences were our both way. She is making a very powerful speech. She talks about the speech. She talks about the experience of black children in education, can I remind her in my education, can I remind her in my constituency, someone I bumped into constituency, someone I bumped into at the weekend, and who lives there at the weekend, and who lives there with his wife established a bookshop with his wife established a bookshop but also established the black parents movement which was to help children who are stuck in those children who are stuck in those schools who were not being given the education they were entitled to.

Does she agree still need to Does she agree still need to continue that work to make sure that black children in our schools are treated fairly and get the education they deserve today?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I pay tribute to her constituency, her constituents who, like so many of the Windrush generation demonstrated resilience generation demonstrated resilience by taking initiatives to circumnavigate the racism to which they were subject. And who still they were subject. And who still they were subject. And who still leave with the today. We must continue to address all of those issues that still needs to be dealt

**** Possible New Speaker ****

with. In the 60s and 70s, lots of young

**** Possible New Speaker ****

In the 60s and 70s, lots of young lack children are identified as educationally subnormal and were educationally subnormal and were sent to schools even though they were not educationally subnormal. Do you believe that those descendants you believe that those descendants and the people affected by that really needs to be given an apology and acknowledge what they experienced during that time?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

As I said I believe this is an unaddressed issue on which there is unaddressed issue on which there is still work to do. Despite, in that vein, it is devastating to read the words of John Carpenter which I've said before in this house, who travelled on the Windrush aged 22. travelled on the Windrush aged 22. He was speaking in 1998, "They tell you it is the mother country, you are all welcome and all British. When you come here you realise you are a foreigner and that is all there is to it.

" The Windrush passengers settled in the UK and put passengers settled in the UK and put down roots using the community saving scheme to buy property in saving scheme to buy property in order to circumvent racist landlords, establishing businesses and churches. Sam King became a postal worker, he became the first black mayor of the borough. It was an achievement that was also very brave as he faced the threat of the National Front was active in Southwark at that time. He was also instrumental in establishing the Notting Hill Carnival and the West Indian Gazette.

Later established the Windrush Foundation with Arthur Torrington who still runs it today. In my constituency the Windrush generation helps to forge the Brixton we know today. They made a huge contribution to a community where everyone is welcome. Where difference is not feared but celebrated. Where we are not strangers but friends and neighbours. To mark the 70th anniversary of the arrival of Windrush, talented young people from Windrush designed a beautiful logo. It is based on the pattern of human It is based on the pattern of human DNA.

People came from all over the Commonwealth and spot the emergence of modern multicultural Britain. They are part of us, part of the U.K.'s 21st-century DNA. The Windrush generation made an extraordinary and enduring contribution because they continued to ensure...

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for giving way on that point of what the expats from the Caribbean came over expats from the Caribbean came over and what they enjoyed. Does my honourable friend agree with me that sometimes we fail to recognise the strength and resilience of the strength and resilience of the Windrush generation that often gets overlooked?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

overlooked? I was trying to make sense of a sentence that was not quite there. sentence that was not quite there. But the Windrush generation made an enduring contribution and showed immense resilience will stop they immense resilience will stop they continued to endure racism and in continued to endure racism and in 2018, a journalist exposed what became known as Windrush scandal. Systematic denial of citizenship rights to British citizens that come to the UK from across the Commonwealth decades after the Second World War.

It saw them deported and unable to work, and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

refused healthcare and housing. You are making a fantastic speech and also for securing this debate. and also for securing this debate. It does seem sometimes quite unfashionable in this day and age to look at the discrimination that that look at the discrimination that that community has endured for so many community has endured for so many decades, and not see as structural racism, i.e. That there is a threat from colonialism, empire, and from colonialism, empire, and slavery all the way through until Windrush and what we experience today.

I wonder if my honourable friend could comment on that issue?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

friend could comment on that issue? I thank him for giving way. I will come to the wider implications which speak to the issue that he is which speak to the issue that he is highlighting. The Windrush scandal highlighting. The Windrush scandal was the most egregious breach of trust. The Windrush Compensation Scheme was poorly set up by the previous government, justice has been far too slow and many victims of the scandal have died and wait for redress. It was very moving to attend with my honourable friend and neighbour the National wind ritual neighbour the National wind ritual on 6 April to remember the victims.

A comparative analysis of the compensation scheme compared with other redress schemes including the Post Office Horizon scheme and the infected blood scandal scheme undertaken by King's College London has demonstrated that it has a much lower success rate of applicants, more complex eligibility requirements, a higher standard of proof and inaccessible application process, an absence of funding for independent legal representation for applicants, decision-making which lacks independence and a process which is inaccessible. It is vitally important that changes are made so victims can have confidence in the compensation scheme.

This is important because the impact of the scandal, impact of the scandal are not only experienced by people themselves, there is an impact across the Windrush generation themselves in for subsequent generations to live with the emotional weight and economic cost what their loved ones have endured, and whose trust in the British institutions and the government has been fractured as a consequence.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

She is making a powerful speech. Does she share with me my concern Does she share with me my concern not just to pay tribute to the journalist for the work she has done journalist for the work she has done to uncover what has been done, but the work of the Windrush generation the work of the Windrush generation campaign, but horror at the evidence we have seen this week that those who have been given compensation to who have been given compensation to date have not been given the same date have not been given the same amount as other scandals.

She agreed that that is wrong that we must right?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

right? It is a question of trust and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

It is a question of trust and there cannot be any excuse for a lack of clarity across compensation schemes that are dealing with schemes that are dealing with similar structural injustices for which state is responsible. And there is more work to do to ensure such a scandal can never happen again. This means reflecting on the causes of the Windrush scandal in future legislative decisions will stop making sure that the introduction of the e-visas allows no scope for anyone who is legitimately in the UK to be wrongly denied their status, it means ensuring that we understand our own past.

The government has commissioned Professor Becky Francis to undertake the curriculum and I hope she will be thinking about subjects such as history and geography and how they can be taught through the prison of an accurate understanding, through whether you come like me from a town with a Viking name in Norman church or whether your family arrived at different time, you can locate it in your history and understand there is no us and them. We are a nation that is always informed and sustained by those who have come from overseas to make their home on these islands.

And it needs resourcing properly, the custodians of history including the National wind museum and black cultural archives in my constituency. And someone came to the UK as a child in 1954 and became a great educationalist in our city. The history of black people as documented in the UK from the Emperor who was stationed at Emperor who was stationed at Hadrian's Wall, two black Georgians, the Windrush generation, and others. It is a national resource that is critical to understanding as a society and vital for the settled society and vital for the settled place and belonging for people.

Must be commensurate with the national role to secure it for the long term. I mention ruefully the ambitious campaign led by Patrick Vernon to retrieve the anchor of Windrush from its current resting place so it can be restored as a memorial and as a tool. In preparing for this debate, we continue to campaign for Windrush justice will stop they have differing views about the role of celebration on Windrush Day. I know there are some who are concerned that celebration undermines the fight for justice and that they cannot celebrate until justice has been done.

I understand that perspective. There are others who passionately believe that assertively celebrating the Windrush generation and all that have contributed and achieved in giving visibility to the community is a part of the fight for justice. The celebration sustained campaigning. It is also important for health and well-being. I'm looking forward to joining the Domino club celebrations on Saturday and the big Caribbean lunch on Sunday. Both to be held on Finally I want to consider the wider importance of fully addressing the Windrush scandal and all its implications, and as my honourable friend highlighted, the Windrush scandal happened as a consequence of structural injustices, and it happened as a consequence of our history.

Windrush must not be compartmentalised because if we do this, we cannot be sure that such a scandal will not be repeated. I mentioned the extraordinary role of members of the Windrush generation and their descendants in our NHS, which continues to this day, but our NHS today in King's College Hospital in my constituency is also sustained by nurses from the Philippines and South India, asked to come by our hospitals because we needed their skills in our healthcare system. We cannot rest until we are sure that they or any other group will not face the horrific injustice of discrimination based on racism and ignorance and embedded in law or policy.

I will confirm at the personal commitment of my honourable friend the Minister to Windrush justice. I was pleased to attend the Windrush Summit last week at the Home Office, and it's a credit to the approach Matt Noble Friend has taken and the work she has done that so many people who have campaigned for Windrush justice felt able to attend an event in the Department that had done them such wrong. I know that is something that many of the attendees would not have thought possible just a few months ago.

I welcome the Minister's commitment to implement all of the recommendations of Wendy Williams Lessons Learned Review and the imminent appointment of a Windrush Commissioner, thank her for the work she is doing to listen, to engage and take meaningful steps to restore trust and confidence. I know that she understands there is much more still to do and I look forward to continuing to work with her on behalf of my constituents to secure the depth and breadth of the change we need.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The question is as on the order paper. I call Kim Johnson.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

paper. I call Kim Johnson. Thank you. I'd like to start by thanking my honourable friend them for the Dulwich & West Norwood the for the Dulwich & West Norwood the securing this important debate. She has long been a friend to the Windrush community and their Windrush community and their descendants and has long played a major role in celebrating, commemorating their contributions to commemorating their contributions to this country. And I'm proud to speak this country. And I'm proud to speak in this debate as the first black MP for Liverpool, proud of my African and Irish heritage.

And many of you and Irish heritage. And many of you might not know that the SF docked in might not know that the SF docked in Liverpool the year before the Empire Windrush made her final destination at Tilbury in June at Tilbury in June 1948. The Windrush generation came to Britain as citizens, invited by Enoch Powell, remember to rebuild a broken nation after the war. In Liverpool they settled mostly in the south of the city, building a vibrant community and contributing to our culture in many different
20:35
Kim Johnson Portrait Kim Johnson MP (Liverpool Riverside, Labour)
-
-
ways from music to food to football to the unique Scouse spirit, including Lord Wood bike a Trinidadian who had helped the Beatles to achieve fame but was Beatles to achieve fame but was sadly written out of history. They worked in the shipyards, the hospitals, the buses and the schools, against the daily struggles schools, against the daily struggles and common racism, they built our city and claimed it as their home. city and claimed it as their home. Today we honour their courage and celebrate the legacy they built, and celebrate the legacy they built, and in so doing we reject again the disgraceful island of strangers disgraceful island of strangers narrative that has reared its ugly head recently.

Evoking the shadow of head recently. Evoking the shadow of Enoch Powell as he whipped up hatred against the Windrush generation and against the Windrush generation and other migrants that he invited here to this country. So today is a reminder that our diversity is the best of us, and the sacrifice that these immigrants gave Tibet our country, we all over them a debt. And with that in mind, I'd like to use the opportunity of today's debate to call for swift action to fix the Windrush compensation scheme.

The Windrush scandal was a national disgrace, a deliberate and inevitable outcome if the Tories hostile environment policy. A nightmare for so many who had come to this country as children, citizens who had worked their whole lives in service to our country, who had always paid their taxes. The injustices that these people still face are deeply felt, denied access to employment, healthcare, often becoming homeless and denied other services, and even detained and removed from the country they have called home for decades.

The scandal has had a chilling effect on the entire community. Many now fear coming forward to access services in case they face repercussions. The scheme to date has been incredibly slow and bureaucratic. Data from this time last year shows that 8,800 claims were made for compensation. Of which only 2,600 had received payment. The government has recently made more funding available for grassroots organisations to support claims through the Windrush scheme, but we still need to go so much further and much faster.

We need to adapt the recommendations made by the Williams review, rebuild trust and relations with the black Caribbean community and consider the implications of our current immigration policies which risk a continuation of the hostile environment. Today, we reaffirm our fight against hostile immigration policies and celebrate our diversity is strength.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Michael Bell Ribeiro-Addy. I'd like to congratulate my Noble

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'd like to congratulate my Noble Friend constituency neighbour the Friend constituency neighbour the methodology was not for securing this vital debate. I know there vital legacy of the Windrush generation is a matter very dear to
20:37
Bell Ribeiro-Addy Portrait Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP (Clapham and Brixton Hill, Labour)
-
-
generation is a matter very dear to her and her constituents as it is to me and mine. Not least because her constituency is home to Windrush Square which sits on the edge of my constituency and which we both had the pleasure of making numerous visits to three out the year. And most recently I had the pleasure of joining my honourable friend and neighbour along with other honourable friend and neighbour the Member for Vauxhall at the National Winter vigil organised by the Windrush national organisation, this brought together community members for a moment of reflection, remembrance and solidarity the Windrush generation and their descendants, and was an opportunity to acknowledge the profound contributions they've made to the fabric of our society.

And is this aspect I want to focus on before I come to the Windrush scandal and the compensation scheme. Now I spoke in this chamber before about the role the Windrush generation played in not only rebuilding our nation but also the way they transformed our society and culture. My constituency of Clapham and Brixton Hill was a pity reshaped by the Windrush generation, and that legacy is still very much evident in the people, the culture, the music, the arc of the cuisine and did so in other ways.

Beyond rebuilding our cities and enriching our culture, the Windrush generation played a crucial role in shaping and sustaining our public services that we continue to rely on services that we continue to rely on every single day. They were the nurses, midwives and doctors who form the backbone of our NHS, often working long hours in difficult conditions to care for the sick and vulnerable. They were the bus try this and train operators who kept our transport networks running, ensuring that Britain's economy kept going. They were the teachers who educated generations of children instilling in them the values of hard-working perseverance, served in the Armed Forces fighting for a country that did not always recognise them as equals.

Their contributions were not significant, they were indispensable. Without them Britain would not be the country it is today. We in this House often speak of values of tolerance, diversity, resilience and community, what we call British values. Windrush generation embody these values throughout their courage, determination and their unwavering belief in a better future, but they were not always treated with the same set values. Whenever their influence runs through the fabric of our nation and we have to ensure that their contributions are not just remembered but celebrated, honoured and upheld the generations to come.

And yes we have to celebrate them. We have to celebrate and understand and remember that the Windrush generation were not always treated with the dignity and respect that they deserved. It has to be as much of our commemorations as much as anything else. Those who travelled across oceans to come to Britain did so thinking they were coming to a mother country that would welcome them with open arms. Instead they were met with hostility and discrimination and biased opportunity. They were denied housing, turned away from jobs for which they were overqualified and often made to feel unwelcome in the very nation they had helped come to rebuild.

And many of them and their descendants face similar treatment during the appalling Windrush scandal. This camp was very much a scandal of the previous governments making, and I remember this because the mother of the House actually recently gave a lecture in this very building as part of the Windrush Summit and the mother of the House the right honourable member for Hackney and Stoke Newington, and I remember that Immigration Act that led to the Windrush scandal unfolding, that piece of legislation that caused all of those problems, and I remember her standing in this House and warning the Home Secretary at the time that if they pass this legislation, it would affect people for whom they had not intended to but who looks different, what they call different to people across this country.

She was pointing to the black community, pointing to the fact that this piece of legislation at the time was going to be applied in a way that would cause the scandal, and it did. And I remember when the scandal was brought to the fore under remember all of the news at the time and people coming in with individual cases, but I do want to pay tribute to the mother of the House because it was her that led that first edging question and it was her that continually brought the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister to the despatch box to apologise repeatedly until one of them ultimately paid the price with her job and until certain guarantees were made and restarted without review.

And that was where the previous government take some steps towards recompense and for their treatment, and that was important, but for so many, me included, never felt as though there was genuine remorse for the pain or the humiliation and torment inflicted on the Windrush generation, never felt as though the governor at the time truly cared. Well I'm pleased that that seems to have changed and that the Minister for migration and citizenship was the first government minister to visit Windrush Square and join us at the vigil in April.

Absolutely. It did not go unnoticed that this token of respect for the Windrush generation was one that no previous Government minister had ever displayed. And I'm so pleased that the government has now taken steps to re-establish the Home Office Windrush unit, which will focus on the action needed to ensure the Windrush scandal is never repeated and that the Home Office is recruiting a Windrush Commission and hope the Minister makes in her remarks and update the House as to the progress of that particular appointment.

Most importantly though, the Minister stressed that the government was committed to a fundamental reset the Windrush generation. I hope the Minister will be outlined clearly what steps the government is taking to bring about that reset. Because unfortunately the recent immigration legislation that is currently going through this House does not seem to me as if lessons have been learned from that. And one of the things the mother of the House mentioned in her recent lecture is that we should be careful not to romanticise the issues of the Windrush generation because the scandal continues.

Windrush Day is great, but justice would be better. The Windrush monument is great, but justice would be even better, and the funding that is being given to community organisations not much but some to push this issue is great, but in comparison to the compensation that should be paid is not enough, and that justice again would be better, so whilst it's nice that these grants and bits of support are going ahead and that we talk about the Windrush generation more, the Home Office need not think that they are a substitute for the justice that the Windrush generation have continually been denied and the Home Office need not think that we do not notice that far too many have died before regularising their status and before receiving a penny of justice.

This has not gone unnoticed and it has to be resolved. The Windrush generation deserve nothing short of our respect and gratitude to their role they played in British society and hope the government will begin to lay the groundwork to demonstrate that. With not just pom-pom platitudes but with the justice they have been denied the justice they have been denied for far too long.
20:45
Harpreet Uppal Portrait Harpreet Uppal MP (Huddersfield, Labour)
-
-
Thank you. It is an honour to speak in today's debate and to mark Windrush Day. 2025. It's a day of reflection, recognition and pride. And Huddersfield were proud of our rich diverse communities, shaped in no small part by those who came here as part of the Windrush generation and their descendants. Families who made their homes in our town worked in hospitals, buses, textile mills and factories and help to build not only our local economy but also the very fabric of our communities and also established a number of dominoes clubs in the town too.

This includes many people from current crew in Kaneda, and it's one of the largest diaspora is outside of grenade but also includes communities from Jamaica and St Lucia. Their contributions continue to shape the culture and civic life of Huddersfield today. Windrush Day gives us a chance to honour that legacy but it must also remain a call to action especially when so many of those who gave so much As part of this year's commemorations there will be a documentary series on TV as part of their groundbreaking with Windrush wines was programmed.

16 Caribbean descendants preserving experiences for future generations and shining a light on challenges faced by descendants. Providing a local foundation of local Caribbean culture who continues to showcase the pride and legacy of our communities in Huddersfield. At places once home to legendary sound systems that put Huddersfield at the heart of the U.K.'s reggae scene. In the 19 eighties. Grocery grocer Gregory Isaac and Jacob. More often than not they would come to Huddersfield direct from Jamaica.

Whilst it is vital that we celebrate the ongoing justices people still face. I have raised the case of a constituent who has been struggling to access the Windrush Compensation Scheme, in this House. Like many he did not have access to support. The process can be complicated, confusing and deeply frustrated to those seeping seeking justice. His prose is not unique. Many individuals still do not know they can apply. Others are deterred by the complexity. Some are in ill- health or grief and are expected to work through bureaucracy to get the redress they are owed.

I welcome the Minister's response to my question and subsequent assistance offered to Mike constituent and I know she's committed to getting this right. The Labour government has made clear that the treatment of the Windrush generation was a profound injustice. We must do everything in our power to ensure that every one of the - access the support, conversation and dignity they deserve.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Her constituency and her speech today. Given what she said and the difficulties in terms of the and the difficulties in terms of the Windrush scandal, accessing the compensation they deserve. Many in fact have been afraid to go to the authorities because it is the very authorities treated them in this way authorities treated them in this way in the first place. When she woke in the £1.5 million that the Labour the £1.5 million that the Labour government has put in to the advocacy support group, which will help smaller and local advocacy groups, community groups, to help groups, community groups, to help people to access compensation that they deserve.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

they deserve. Thank you and of course we will welcome this, I was just going on to places in Huddersfield and funding will be important for that. We must make sure that local authorisations are following their part. They know best. They must have the institutional support of course. That also means embedding cultural change in the Home Office. So that this never happens again. The Windrush generation did not just arrive in Britain, they helped shape it. They made our NHS possible.

They raised their families in our towns and cities and grew our economy and contributed so much to Huddersfield and the town. They enjoyed the discrimination and hardship, contributed with the termination. As we mark Windrush Day this year, it is beyond words, less match our tributes with action and ensure

**** Possible New Speaker ****

justice is delivered and not delayed. I also paid tribute to my

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I also paid tribute to my honourable friend, for her powerful honourable friend, for her powerful introduction to this debate. And in her opening remarks she referenced her opening remarks she referenced the errors of her constituency, which is the very place I grew up. which is the very place I grew up. For me as a young person growing up there were things that you recognise there were things that you recognise from an early age. You recognise that the place was special and that the place was special and unique.

He recognised that it works unique. He recognised that it works well, he recognised it was a place that embraced so many people, across so many different communities. I think about my own heritage from
20:51
Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
-
-
Nigeria, mixing in interacting with the Irish community, Portuguese community, West Indian community, the Spanish community, the Latin the Spanish community, the Latin American community, the white community. All of those different mixing in that melting pot that we mixing in that melting pot that we know as Brixton. It is such an imp it is such a testament to be unveiled in the heart of Brixton. unveiled in the heart of Brixton. Somewhere to commemorate and celebrate our community. Sunday is Windrush Day, another chance to celebrate recognise the celebrate recognise the contributions of the Windrush generation.

The hull of our country, generation. The hull of our country, as Huddersfield outlined. Last year, as Huddersfield outlined. Last year, I had the honour of welcoming the now Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, to the Windrush Secretary, to the Windrush celebrations in my constituency, not too far from here. With my honourable friend the Member for East Dulwich. We met with pioneers of the Windrush generation that built the community that I grew up in, around Brixton. The very community that gave us that resilience that we embraced the challenges.

The belief that we can make progress when we work together. Windrush Day represents a source of pride for the communities that built that strong work, hard work and determination. As a much Windrush Day is a celebration, we must not forget that this generation, too often, these communities but the hard line of diversity, nothing represents that more. Which sort many of the Windrush generation, people who have been in this country for decades being denied even the most basic rights.

Which led to people losing their homes, losing their jobs, even being denied medical treatment. Can you imagine, knowing that your grandmother and grandfather probably worked in the same hospitals. At least 83 people ended up being wrongly deported from this country and sent back home. And disgraced as we've heard, many of those were victims of the scandal are still waiting to receive compensation. And the Indian Independent reported that 50 people have died waiting for compensation. -- The independent reported.

We must work to try to speed up the compensation scheme which I know that my honourable friend is doing and making sure that we are being practical. Engaging with both the government and Home Office. They urge them to look at ensuring that Windrush victims have the right legal support, so that they feel able to get the money that they deserve. The roots of the Windrush scandal did not start in the 20 tens. It started in the discrimination, the racism, experience when they first arrived in the UK.

It started when some of them arrived at Waterloo station, on a train, which is home to the National Windrush Monument. Which was opened on 22 June on 22 June 2022. That statue depicts a picture of a man and a woman and a young child in their Sunday best, because that is what the Windrush generation, the dressed up in their Sunday best to come to this country. That statue was designed by Basil Watson. On the side of the statue, I would urge members to visited, there is a poem.

It is titled, " You called and we came. " That call to action, many of the Windrush generation rightly answered. I also made reference and I think back to late in early June, 2017, in the maternity ward at St Thomas's Hospital, trying to get my son to come out, he was almost 2 weeks overdue at looking down and think that statue. And thinking about the many women, from the Windrush generation who worked and committed in our NHS.

Let's teach you for nearly 12 years, members of the community, the appeal, rising the vital funds to make sure that statue was erected and it was formally opened by another, Baroness Flather Ella Benjamin who sits on the other place. And another statue, the statue of the bronze woman, just by the roundabout. According to records is the first statue of a black woman, it was erected in 2008. I had the honour of protecting that as a counsellor. A woman carrying a child into the air.

It shows the power of the Windrush in my constituency and any other constituency. It is important as honourable members and right honourable members of highlighted, we cannot make the same mistakes that happened in the Windrush scandal. While we may progress we know that racism hasn't disappeared from our society. We need to ask ourselves how is it right that we are still seeing health inequalities and race inequalities in our NHS. How is it right that some of our BAME committees continue to face discrimination.

How was it right that we must not treat the Windrush scandal in isolation and we must not, as a government, make the same decisions on policy that led to the Windrush scandal in the first place. They urge the government to be extremely careful when it carries out its review later this year. It must not be the case that we throw out arbitrary barriers, in the weight of those arriving in our country. That we say to people, who work day in, day out as our nurses, our carers, in jobs that essentially keep this country going, that they have less of a right to become a citizen.

Doing this will entrench further inequalities in our country. It will deny those taxes and helping to run out public services, to have a say in how those same services run. This cannot be the name of this government and we would never Inst hostile policies that led to the Windrush scandal in the first place.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I would like to thank the honourable member and Lord Freud who honourable member and Lord Freud who instigated this debate. I thought she made a fantastic speech. And the other contributions that the other contributions that the honourable friend have made today. I just wanted to touch a little bit on Windrush and about the story it Windrush and about the story it tells us of this country. About what it tells, I think stories are
20:58
Clive Lewis Portrait Clive Lewis MP (Norwich South, Labour)
-
-
important. The stories we tell ourselves, to the country, define us as a country. And the history of Windrush and the Windrush generation I think it is right that we celebrate Windrush and their contribution, but I think as other speakers have mentioned and alluded to, there is a dark side to the story. I do not want to be too negative, but I do want the touch on some of that dark side, because I think it is important where we find ourselves as a country and as a world, now.

I say the stories that we tell ourselves are important, they are. I know that I wouldn't be standing here, today, in Parliament, as a black member of Parliament, unless one of my ancestors in Africa hadn't been abducted, put onto slave ship and then for generations after been beating in the most terrible conditions, to work to make money, for someone over here, in this country, or the slave master, in the Caribbean. And yet because of that person I stand here, today, in this place.

So, history is complicated. I thing we can agree that, history is complicated. Nonetheless that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to update it. I look at many colleagues around here today, you know, it is quite fashionable at the moment, in some quarters, politically to say that we are recipients of GERD. That somehow we have been gifted places. Anyone who comes from the black community has somehow been gifted the position, if you are a woman, or someone, with a tendency on sexuality, which is seen as not being the norm.

-- GERD. I say if anyone understands the Labour Party's election process, you will no that isn't the case. In fact we are both working class, many of us and black. It takes a lot to get into this place and yet we are here and we are going nowhere. I will just say this point. I remember back in 2021, when the benches opposite who were over here, then the government, under Boris Johnson produced a disgraceful report. It was the race report.

I think I would be interested to hear what the opposition thinks. It does not exist, it is a figment of our collective imagination. We've been dreaming about it for 400 years, in effect. But there is no link between empire, between slavery and the racism that stretches from that all the way here, to the Windrush generation and beyond. Indeed it figures in much of our immigration debate, to this day, to this very day it is still there. Because what is racism? Racism is a hierarchy of words.

We see it all around the world in conflict. If you are from this part of the world you your wife is this much. If your ethnicity is this you are worth that much. You can take that much suffering. If you are up here, well then you do not need to suffer, you are part of the elite. That is what racism is, it is a hierarchy of suffering. I think the moment that we forget that is real, we allow those to tell us that our history is something only where good things happened.

Only where things were shiny and nice. We had an empire to help the rest of the world, to develop it. I remember a story, I was gonna go into the BBC breakfast, BBC breakfast, no sorry it was GMT breakfast. It was at the ITV breakfast program. I remember I had to have a chat with the producer. He said Clive, you do realise that the railways in India they've helped India get into the 20 And this is why it so complicated because you think for a second the British built the railways in India for the benefit of the Indians? And the answer is no, they belted to extract vast wealth from India, and it just so happens that they can now use the railway network to industrialise and make themselves richer, so history is common get.

I will finish by saying this, there is movement around the world in Germany, Europe, in the US, Derry say with United States person who believes there is a genocide happening in South Africa. Really. He believes that, who is coming here for a state visit. Around the world there is an attack on history. There is an attack on good history. Good history is complicated. It tells a complicated story about this country and its past. I've served this country, I serve this country knowing full well it's history in Empire, knowing full well it's history in slavery.

I served it because I love this country warts and all. I don't need to tell myself a story about this country being perfect in the past. That it only did things for the good. I love it warts and all because it gave me, my family, my friends, my community semi-opportunities still. My dad was welcomed by my mother's family, an English family into this country for the trade union movement welcomed my father. Our history is complex. The Labour Party is complex, the country is complex.

History is complex. Let's never forget that and never forget as we go forwards, understand that history is complex for a reason. It's because, and I tell you this now, it moves me because we are all human beings and human beings are complex themselves. That's why our history is complex. That's what we need to understand. And as we go forward and talk about Windrush, as we celebrate Windrush Day, as we passed legislation in this place about black people, about immigration, about asylum seekers, let's remember our complex history and let's try to do better in the future, remembering that.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. So is a pleasure to follow my honourable friend the Norwich South command history is written by the person who holds the written by the person who holds the pain. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's the history of what happened at that time. It's done through a that time. It's done through a specific lens. And I want to thank my honourable friend from Dulwich and West Norwood for instigating
21:04
Dawn Butler Portrait Dawn Butler MP (Brent East, Labour)
-
-
and West Norwood for instigating this important debate. On Windrush, and my constituency of Brent East is one of the most diverse constituencies in Europe. And on that, I want to because as the first of God to speak in the chamber this day, just send out my condolences to everyone who has been affected by plane crash in India, which many of my constituents have because ultimately, what effects one affects ultimately, what effects one affects us all.

And the Windrush ship brought in people from Jamaica, Trinidad, St Lucia, Kaneda, Barbados and as my honourable friend had said, many also served in the British Armed Forces in World War II. So they were owed something from their mother country. And just want to talk a little bit about my mum. My honourable friend from vox Alan Campbell talked about when they came over in their Sunday best, and if you look at those pictures, and see how crisp their suits were, how sharp their suits were, the shirts were just sparkling white, you see they were proud, so proud, and I'm telling you we had our plane out clothes from our school clothes, and our church clothes, and never the three shall meet.

And anybody to mix that, we were taught an inherent sort sense of pride in our self. We went to eat in the street because that gave the idea we didn't have food at home. We went allowed to carry clothes in a plastic bag because they called that scandal back in Jamaica. He had to have a proper cloth bag. So we were taught so much. And we watched every day. And that might seem weird thing to And that might seem weird thing to say now.

But my parents would tell me how they only washed once a week, and had to go to a wash House. We had to wash every single day. And we washed our meat, and we washed our chicken before we seasoned it. And seasoning was more than salt-and- pepper. Salt-and-pepper was and a compliment. -- Accompaniment. So what was brought from the Caribbean is more than what some people like to discuss or even appreciate because now it's been taken for granted. And if you go to a West Indian person's home, there's lots of things you will find in common.

They would have crocheted doilies on the chairs and on the table, all hand crocheted. My mum used to crochet. She is to crochet these little ducks and you would dip them in dicer they had little red beaks. It was just so inventive. Now you would help to pay a fortune for that skill. All our clothes worker spoke. Before I would be embarrassed that my mum would make my clothes. Now I my mum would make my clothes. Now I would love for my mum to make my clothes, made-to-measure.

So we were ashamed of them, and when you grow up you realise they were very special. Very unique, very grand. And the reason why when you go to a West Indian person's home, you would find the same picture frame is because there was only one photographer that would take pictures of black people and frame them. The reason why you would see pictures of weddings that kind of look the same because there was only one place that would do that. The West Indian communities.

So that's how they were treated in a place that they called the motherland. And then when we come to the Windrush scandal, it's not just the loss of employment or the loss of access to benefit all the loss of access to housing or homelessness. All the loss of access to healthcare or education. And as my honourable friend from Liverpool talked about, it was deliberately structured to make sure the black people did not progress by labelling them educationally subnormal.

To stop their ability to work and earn. And the thing is with the Windrush scandal is that stop people from buying the houses, stop people from sending their child to college, which a lot of West Indian people did, and what it also did command the reason why there is only 2,000 people who have claimed is because there is a lot of shame that comes with it because the West Indian community is a very proud community. And that's why we have to instil labour values from a Labour government and how we readdress what has happened to the Windrush generation.

Because it has been an absolute scandal. There is around 50,000 people who have been affected by this, and some will die, some have died and some further what I before they see justice. But we need to make sure we speed up that progress because this wasn't a light-touch design, as the then government said it was because it was something like 45 pages, and they said you didn't need a lawyer. You actually did need a lawyer because it was so complex. And actually I'm really quite ashamed that there is not one member of His Majesty is government opposition that has come to this debate.

This isn't a niche debate. This is a debate about hundreds of thousands of people in this country they came to this country to rebuild this country who were invited here and they haven't even had the decency to come and contribute to this debate. And they are the cause of the scandal and the injustice. So I want to end on this as I began, I think Martin Luther King said what effects one affects us all because that is the interrelated structure of society.

We are all intertwined in life's journey, and I just hope that as we progress and as racism is increasing in some parts of the country, as people are trying to divide us, that we remember, and as its Jo Cox day as well, we remember that we have more in common.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Sureena Brackenridge. Thank you. Can I start by

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. Can I start by thanking honourable friends on the side of the House for your speeches, side of the House for your speeches, your stories, from your constituents as well? Incredibly insightful but heartbreaking as well, but that's heartbreaking as well, but that's exactly why we are here today. I'm sincerely grateful to my honourable sincerely grateful to my honourable friend for Dulwich and West Norwood for giving us this opportunity to for giving us this opportunity to bring this House together to honour the Windrush generation.

Those whose the Windrush generation. Those whose courage, resilience and extraordinary contribution helped extraordinary contribution helped rebuild post-war Britain. Let's be rebuild post-war Britain. Let's be clear, they answered a call. They worked hard and crafted, and they helped shape the very fabric of the country that we know today. We see examples of their legacy in Wolverhampton, embodied in the life and work of so many people like Professor Melcher Vance, an
21:13
Sureena Brackenridge Portrait Mrs Sureena Brackenridge MP (Wolverhampton North East, Labour)
-
-
inspirational role model who when elected in 1981 as the city's first African Caribbean counsellor. She African Caribbean counsellor. She went on to chair the social services committee and later became the first committee and later became the first African Caribbean chair of the Royal Ball for Hampton NHS Trust. -- Ball for Hampton NHS Trust. -- Wolverhampton. Her leadership, service and her example not only opened doors but shattered glass opened doors but shattered glass ceilings. This weekend, Wolverhampton will pay a lasting Wolverhampton will pay a lasting tribute to professorship vans with the unveiling of the bronze bust, a the unveiling of the bronze bust, a permanent reminder of the power of representation.

And the enduring contribution of the Windrush generation to our public life. But generation to our public life. But today is not just about celebration. It's also about justice. Because for too many, the Windrush story includes real pain. The Windrush scandal inflicted the palm on people who had every right to live here. People who built their lives here, who served our communities but were betrayed by a system that refused to see their humanity. We saw the pain in the story of the late Paulette Wilson, a Wolverhampton resident, a cook who once worked in this very House in Parliament.

Paulette came to Britain as a child. And spent more than 50 years here, but in 2015 she received a letter declaring her an illegal immigrant. She was made homeless. Her benefits were stopped. And in 2017, she was detained and sent to Heathrow for deportation to a country she had not seen in half a century. But with the swift action of my predecessor, my honourable friend Emma Reynolds who was Paulette's MP at that time, worked alongside the refugee and migrant Centre in Wolverhampton and Paulette, her strong determination, she fought back and she won.

Granted leave to remain but more than that, she chose to speak out. Becoming a voice for so many others who had suffered in silence. Her courage helped expose the systematic injustice at the heart of the Windrush scandal, and helped to force change. In 2021, a plaque was proudly placed at the Wolverhampton heritage centre. Once the office where Enoch Powell wrote his divisive rivers of blood speech. Now a thriving symbol of African Caribbean heritage and real community spirit.

So I welcome this Labour government's forge ahead to Launching a 1.5 million advocacy fund, re-establishing the Windrush unit, significantly reducing the time taken to allocate claims and beginning of the recruitment of a Windrush commissioner, to ensure victims of voices remain at the heart of government policy. Windrush should not just be a chapter in our history. It has got to be a call for action, to challenge us to build a country shaped by justice and defined by a true sense of belonging for all.

And I commend the courage and the resilience of all of our Windrush generation, the thousands of mothers who faced this injustice and hope that such atrocities can never happen again.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you very much indeed. Some powerful speeches this evening. We are lucky to be participating in this debate. There is a lot to this debate. There is a lot to celebrate but an awful ought to be really angry about. We owe an really angry about. We owe an enormous amounts of the Caribbean and the black British community for their contributions to our society. their contributions to our society. Not least the Windrush generations, Maya region, the black Caribbean communities role in shaping the cultural landscape and social fabric.

In 1966, it became Manchester's first senior nursing officer, coming from Jamaica in 1955, confronted with relentless 1955, confronted with relentless racism in her role, she channelled racism in her role, she channelled her experiences into activism, becoming a key antiracist campaigner and legacy continued through the
21:18
Lisa Smart Portrait Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
organisations that she helped to organisations that she helped to establish. In 1980 a pioneering mixed-race community activist, the mixed-race community activist, the cooperative, a black women led community organisation based in a community centre. A drop-in centre community centre. A drop-in centre for the elderly, community health such as the school to tackle such as the school to tackle underachievement and high youth unemployment. The NIA centre, now unemployment. The NIA centre, now opened as the first large-scale arts vendor, dedicated to African and Caribbean culture.

It's inaugural Caribbean culture. It's inaugural event featured the local legendary Nina Simone, the chat gallery in central Manchester continues by central Manchester continues by showcasing and celebrating Afro- Caribbean and African art, in which to foster greater understanding and to foster greater understanding and appreciation of Caribbean artistic perspectives. Here in the UK, people's lives are still blighted by prejudice, and racism is still far too prevalent. We all have a responsibility to recognise this reality. Also recognise the role that we can play in a challenging this.

I'm proud that the Lib Dems are committed to racial equality. Unequivocally condemning racism in all its forms, tackling injustice wherever we see it. When it comes to injustice, the honourable member for Dulwich in rightly laid out that it failed to deliver the justice we so deeply deserve. Dithered and delayed on implementing recommendations of the lessons learned review. Liberal Democrats...

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for giving way. The Windrush generation giving way. The Windrush generation made a huge contribution to the life in the economy of the UK. I want to in the economy of the UK. I want to pay tribute to the Hong-Kong community in my constituency. I'm sure we'll make the same contribution to the UK. I'm deeply contribution to the UK. I'm deeply concerned that the government is piling uncertainty and glory on a piling uncertainty and glory on a British Hongkongers, through reforms to indefinite leave to remain.

These to indefinite leave to remain. These are people who already fear retribution, who are living here in retribution, who are living here in Britain. Does my honourable friend agree they maintain the five year pathway.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm grateful to my honourable

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm grateful to my honourable friend for raising his constituency. I've asked the Minister before about I've asked the Minister before about the changes that the government is proposing to the time period for definite lead for remain. I'm sure definite lead for remain. I'm sure she will talk about that in a closing remarks. I feel that we need to value contribution made in our country and I agree with the comments he has made. In talking about some of the wrongs, forced onto the Windrush generation, the Lib Dems will keep pushing the government to right these wrongs, including the lessons learnt in the review and making the compensation review and making the compensation scheme independent from the Home Office.

Like the honourable member Office. Like the honourable member for clappers in Brixton Hill I hope that the Minister is in a position to update the House on progress being made in writing these wrongs and delivering justice, when she answers the debate shortly. Lib Dems have long pushed for the implementation of comprehensive racial equality strategy. Including provisions aimed at, as are the honourable, right honourable member mentioned, reducing the disproportionate high and utterly shameful mortality rate for black women and for racial disparities in paternal health.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Just to have it on the record,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Just to have it on the record, talking to the PPS beforehand, the Windrush scheme for Northern Ireland Windrush scheme for Northern Ireland enabled people, the Windrush people enabled people, the Windrush people who got their status were able to work and remain and have equality with the rest of us in Northern with the rest of us in Northern Ireland, our thanks for that scheme as well. Those in Northern Ireland who came for the Windrush scheme. Enabled them to help our country, Enabled them to help our country, Northern Ireland be a better place because the cultures and the history and the interaction socialised as well.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

well. Grateful to the honourable gentleman for his comments, but each successive generation who arrive on successive generation who arrive on these shores and have done for millennia have added to our rich cultural, social fabric and he is absolutely right to highlight his part of the world and the impact that people have added in his community, absolutely. Just in terms of the things that we should also be looking at. We should be ending disproportionate use of Stop and Search and very carefully the use of facial recognition which is likely to wrong identify black men and women.

In many ways we are holding this debate today because of the tireless campaigning for many of the Windrush generation, not least my noble friend Liberal Democrat, Baroness Benjamin, of Luella's journey is emblematic of the Windrush journey, she arrived from Trinidad in 1960, at the end of 10, accompanied by three have siblings, childhood was marked by persistent racism, she recalls every day is a battle where she was either ignored or subjected to verbal abuse. During a house viewing, neighbours called the police, accusing the family of stealing the furniture, from what would soon be their own home.

Luella, of course was not alone, many children of her generation endured these indignities in silence. Shouldering the burden of rejection while cling into the light. Leaving school at 16 she charted a path, first as an actress, presenter, writer, independent producer and a tireless advocate for the welfare of children worldwide. Today she chairs the Windrush commemoration committee, charged with establishing a lasting tribute to the Windrush generation and their descendants. Notable achievements there was the national Windrush monument at Waterloo station, designed as mentioned, design by Basil Watson.

An equally immense contribution to British life. Luella remains a powerful figure holding the government to account, the Windrush generation received the recognition and justice they so rightly deserve. It was of Luella who put the idea of Windrush J as a national celebration of the moment when Caribbean communities came to rebuild Britain, in the face of adversity. And it is thanks to her determination were able to mark and speak of it today. As well as the giver of the best hogs in parliament, she is a celebrated author, using her experience to educate future generations of her lighting.

And it is right that we celebrate Luella and all of her the Windrush generation today -- her

**** Possible New Speaker ****

writing. Thank you and I would like to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you and I would like to begin by thanking all members who have made contributions to this have made contributions to this debate today. I'm particularly grateful to the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood for bringing the and West Norwood for bringing the debate, to give members a chance to speak of their own and their speak of their own and their constituencies experience of and with the Windrush generation. As noted by the then Prime Minister noted by the then Prime Minister Lord Attlee, in a letter to MPs, those first arrivals on the Windrush were expected to make a genuine were expected to make a genuine contribution to addressing the U.K.'s post-war Labour shortages.

The story of the Windrush generation has followed, but also
21:25
Harriet Cross Portrait Harriet Cross MP (Gordon and Buchan, Conservative)
-
-
has followed, but also inspirational. With that many accounts of exceptional resilience and overcoming of adversity. And I do want to be very clear, it is important that we acknowledge when the state fails its citizens. The treatment of some Windrush citizens was an unacceptable failure that successive governments, that is why the previous Conservative government apologises unreservedly and took decisive action. It was critical for the last government est a compensation scheme, over £100 million was granted in compensation to those affected, with over 93 million being paid out and that figure continuing as claims are settled under this government.

Yes, of course.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Does the shadow Minister believe

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Does the shadow Minister believe that the Windrush was an aberration, a few bad apples, over a few a few bad apples, over a few decades, or was it because, structural racism?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

structural racism? I think that Windrush and other scandals which have plagued our scandals which have plagued our society are a stain on the UK and whether the cause for that was, as whether the cause for that was, as the member said a few bad apples, or any other reason, the fact remains any other reason, the fact remains is that we have to take real action to address the issue that was created and ensure those who were created and ensure those who were affected are compensated, those who were affected and cannot be, so to recognise and to ensure it is put in place to make sure it cannot happen again.

That is what I was interested in, I was not here at the last Parliament, all I can do is my very best to ensure injustices are not repeated in the future. As I was saying, the compensation has paid out 93 million and we hope that the government continues to ensure these settlements are paid. However as we do look forward to this year's Windrush Day, and while we must reflect and learn from the past injustices, we should also reflect and honour the contributions of this remarkable generation.

The Baroness lady Benjamin who chaired the Windrush commemoration committee spoke in the parliamentary debate of the importance of celebrating the positive aspects of Windrush Day. While the name, for some will forever be associated with scandal, I welcome the efforts of communities and members of the generation to reclaim it in a positive light. Many campaigners want the term Windrush to represent not the scandal, but the vast and very many contributions made to the UK, by this generation. As His Majesty The King noted, when meeting members of the community, in the 70 fifth anniversary, he said this was an indomitable and generation, saying that history is, thankfully and finally beginning to record a rightful place those men and women on the Windrush generation.

A critical element of this recognition is commemoration. We should be of the work of Basil Watson, as we have heard, he's a magnificent Windrush and a national monument stands as a powerful wonderment to the community. It's location, as the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green noted at Waterloo, means that thousands of people passing every day. A constant reminder to those departing, or arriving at the station. When the decision was made at Waterloo, the decision was taken as it was where thousands of Windrush pioneers first arrived in London.

Before starting any lives across the UK. For many members of the Windrush generation, Waterloo was not the end of the journey, but the beginning of a new life in this country. And of the many contributions they were going to make. As a former member of the Department of housing communities and local government capturing the essence of the monument saying, Basil Watson sculpture perfectly captures the spirit of Windrush. We see the strength, hope and expectation of those who arrived with so little, but gave so much.

Of course, the statue, whilst the symbolic is only one part of the broader support provided. As members will recall, in 2020, the previous government launched a fund to support community led initiatives set out for Windrush Day. This finding was enabled to allow the commemoration of the Windrush generation and their descendants. This will form part of a wider effort to recognise the Windrush generation is a lasting contribution to British society. And I am pleased to see that this funding continues in 2025, with 30 projects supported under the current grant scheme.

I understand that this time the Government has a dedicated 4.25 million in funding to honouring the Windrush legacy. In addition, while government has a vital role to play, the 70 fifth anniversary also saw a wide range of private contributions, from events and exhibitions to documentaries, articles and much

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I think should be recognised that

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I think should be recognised that drum and TV has a way of enriching the Windrush story as well. I think the Windrush story as well. I think properly my favourite program and the honourable ladies favourite program, call the midwife has that program, call the midwife has that drama of the Windrush scheme and the people who come into the program and what they have endured and what they what they have endured and what they have given to society. This you think drum and TV can tell the story

**** Possible New Speaker ****

of Windrush in a really great way? Absolutely. Television drama even

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Absolutely. Television drama even radio when it's not visual, all of these put it in a lot better light than anyone standing at this than anyone standing at this despatch box already in this chamber making contributions can possibly do. Just seeing real life in colour do. Just seeing real life in colour and out on the streets is the way to actually bring it to life and make sure we recognise every day the way the community is competing entwined the community is competing entwined in our society today.

So we are talking about the documentaries they have made, and as we look forward to the 80th anniversary in a few years time, I'm sure this will be another opportunity to commemorate the enduring impact of this generation and to encourage further works of those in the creative industry who play such a vital role in shaping the public consciousness. Of course while today has been chosen as an appropriate moment to hold this debate in advance of Windrush Day, on June 22, commemorations need not be limited to anniversaries or milestones.

I'm confident that those involved will continue to highlight and educate others about the vital role that individuals played, their resilience and ability to overcome adversity. More broadly, today allows us to reflect on the Windrush generation's contributions to our institutions, industries and importantly, our communities. It's worth remembering that HMT Empire Windrush was transporting dozens of Caribbean passengers who had served as RAF airmen, many returning from leave and others rejoining the service. Many more from this generation and their descendants will go on to serve our country in our Armed Forces.

This is in addition to the callous individuals of the Windrush generation helped build and sustain the NHS, particularly during a time in post- war UK when the workforce was at an acute shortage. Not to mention the enormous contributions across so many other fields including science, education, social work, business and countless others. I acknowledge the government's ongoing work to address the injustices that occurred in the Home Office. There are still claims to be resolved and payments to be made, and the challenges remain in overcoming consequences of past errors.

We cannot change the past, but we can ensure that the schemes established by the previous government continue to deliver for every eligible person. I welcome the fact that Patrick Vernon and Baroness Benjamin and others campaigned for a Windrush Day was given the opportunity to us all to focus on the stories of those who came to this country and contributed so much. Showing how they came to Britain, how they shaped it and how they have helped shape it in turn is vital.

As such, I thank members for sharing theirs and their constituencies experiences in the debate today.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. May I start by thanking my honourable friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood Member for Dulwich and West Norwood for securing this debate and for all for securing this debate and for all members who have spoken in what has been an incredibly powerful and moving discussion and debate this moving discussion and debate this evening? And that includes my honourable friend and honourable honourable friend and honourable members for Ealing Southall, Liverpool Riverside, Clapham and Liverpool Riverside, Clapham and Brixton Hill, Huddersfield, Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Norwich South, and Camberwell Green, Norwich South, Brent East, and also our opposition shadow Minister is who I also think gave very powerful contributions.

I will try and refer to a number of the points that were raised during the course of my remarks, but I do just want to thank my honourable friend the Member for Wolverhampton north-east for her stories of the Professor and Paulette Wilson, which I think were very powerful stories along with so many other stories told during the debate, and also to acknowledge Basil Watson's most wonderful sculpture, and the story that it tells and that it tells the coming and going through Waterloo station.

And just imagine as well with my honourable friend the Member for Brent East in the way she spoke about her mother, I think we all recognise a little bit of her mother in all of our mothers, and I'm sure that her pride in her mother would have been very much so reflected also in mothers pride in her. And her contribution. Now this Sunday marks 77 years since the Empire Windrush arrived at Tilbury. And along with thousands of others who came to the United Kingdom from the Caribbean and indeed across the Commonwealth in the 1940s, 50s, 60s and 70s, they became known as the Windrush generation.

They and their children and grandchildren have enriched our society in myriad ways, and we over them and enormous debt of gratitude. On Windrush Day, we celebrate them and their extraordinary achievements and contribution to our economy, communities and society, and our culture. But we also acknowledge the appalling and humiliating treatment that many of the Windrush generation were subjected to, due to the actions of past governments. Let me say clearly, and without equivocation to the House, the Home Office Windrush scandal was a travesty that caused untold pain and suffering.

There has been much talk about righting the wrongs. But words alone are not enough, and this government is backing up our promises with action. That is why be promised a reset in opposition. And since the general election we have sought to strengthen engagement with victims, their families, communities and stakeholder organisations. And I have regularly met with many organisations, including the Windrush national organisation, they also pay tribute to Bishop Desmond also pay tribute to Bishop Desmond Jack do and the very powerful vigil I was proud to join in April.

But also the Windrush defenders league and others. From London to Manchester, Cardiff to Edinburgh, I've heard victims describe how their lives were turned upside down. The trauma they went through, and the impact that the scandal is still having on their lives. And as we seek to embed a culture of listening and learning through the Department, we have worked to improve training and standards. As well as publishing the historical roots of the Windrush cantle report last September. I am clear that the lessons we learned should inform our ways of working across government.

Now in April, the Home Secretary and I were also honoured to host the Windrush Camry elders for a special screening in the Home Office. With Professor and Vice counsel Camry of the BAFTA nominated film Windrush at 75. And last week we were proud to host the first day of the national went Museum's annual summit, led by
21:39
Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
-
-
Doctor Les Johnson and Denise. A powerful summit, addressing the powerful summit, addressing the theme of reframing Windrush and justice for a new Britain. We will justice for a new Britain. We will very soon be announcing the appointment of a new independent Windrush Commissioner, underlining this Government's unwavering determination to ensure that the voices of the Windrush generations voices of the Windrush generations are heard, their experiences acknowledged, and proper acknowledged, and proper compensation delivered. Now we are committed to improving the Windrush committed to improving the Windrush Compensation Scheme to ensure that those who are due compensation get the support that they deserve and quickly.

In opposition, we quickly. In opposition, we frequently heard that the application process was too complicated with insufficient support for those wishing to make a claim. The government is determined to ensure that the victims of the Home Office Windrush scandal are heard. That justice is sped up, that the compensation scheme is run efficiently and effectively. We have already made changes to the case working processes, reducing waiting time for the allocation of claims from four months to under six weeks.

In April, we launched a £1.5 million advocacy support fund to provide dedicated help from trusted community organisations when victims are applying for compensation. However, we recognise that there is much more to be done. Which is why ministers are continuing to engage with community groups on improvements to the compensation scheme, and we will ask the Windrush Commissioner to recommend any further changes they believe are required. I also want to make reference to two points that were mentioned in the debates.

And the first is those that have passed away unfortunately after submitting a claim. Around 64 claimants that we are aware of. In these very difficult circumstances, the teams continue to work closely with their appointed representative, usually members of the family to ensure the claims continue and are concluded as quickly as possible. And we also prioritise those claims where we are notified that individuals are suffering from critical or life limiting illnesses. Officials are also reviewing the current exclusion within the rules of compensation for private and occupational pensions.

And we are working at pace to consider options for how we can compensate for these losses and work closely with the government actuary Department to support this critical work. Now the Windrush story has resonance for us all and for communities across the country. I am pleased to tell the House that this government has supported this year's commemorations through the Windrush Day grant scheme, chaired by Paula Simpson and working with my honourable friend in the other place the Minister for Faith and communities.

We are funding projects to celebrate, commemorate and educate about the Windrush. And we are funding the National wind museum to collect and preserve these precious assets for future generations and is a great educational resource for schools, researchers and the wider public.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my for giving way. And my honourable friend from Clapham and Brixton Hill talked about the government giving a little bit of government giving a little bit of money for this and that, and I'm really pleased to hear about the Windrush Museum, and I just wondered Windrush Museum, and I just wondered if the Minister would not now give a commitment of course, but consider commitment of course, but consider emancipation educational trust where we can have a building that not only will talk about the injustices of will talk about the injustices of Windrush but also the injustice of

**** Possible New Speaker ****

enslaved people et cetera. I thank her for her comments.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank her for her comments. Very happy to talk about these issues further. Indeed you will note the migration Museum has very powerful exhibitions and history powerful exhibitions and history that has also been documented. And it's also in this context that it's so important that Windrush Day events are happening across the events are happening across the country with community festivals, live music, workshops, talks, films and so much more. And I'm looking forward to marking Windrush Day this weekend, both in Manchester with the Caribbean and African health network and in Brixton for the big Caribbean lunch this weekend, which I hope to join my honourable friend in Windrush Square.

And I pay tribute to the work of Roz Griffiths in her constituency. Now in this debate and those in recent years we have heard the powerful and vivid accounts of those who have lived through experiences since the 1940s, including on the 75th anniversary. On which His Majesty became described those who stepped off the Empire Windrush in 1948 as pioneers, and that's exactly what they were. Through their hard work, sacrifice, togetherness and unbreakable spirit, they endured. And against a backdrop of racism and discrimination that we know existed so much at that time.

But more than that, they thrived. On the railways, roads, construction sites, and our Armed Forces, factories and in our fledgling NHS and in so many other sectors, they helped Britain get back on their feet. They helped rebuild this country, its infrastructure and public services. And Windrush is not merely a prosaic story of service rendered at a time of national need. It's so much more than that. A story of a community that became indelibly etched into the very fabric of our social tapestry.

The story of art, music, literature, language and cultural enrichment. Put simply, is the story of British life, changed for the better. So we just want to wrap up again by thanking all members have spoken. And also to pay tribute to those who who have been mentioned in the debate today, Baroness Benjamin and also my right honourable friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, who in this House and the other have done more than any other arguably to advance the Windrush cause and highlight its importance to our national identity.

This debate has been a powerful and poignant reminder of the countless ways this country has been strengthened by the Windrush generation and their descendants, and the enormous debt of gratitude that we owed them. Their contributions span every facet of our society. Put simply, Britain would not be Britain without them, and this government, they will always get the respect, thanks and always get the respect, thanks and
21:46
21:48
21:48
None Portrait Adjournment: Phasing out animal experiments in medical research
-

on the Order Paper. Appeared to me that this House do now adjourn. The

**** Possible New Speaker ****

adjourned. Before I start I must declare an interest as the chair of the All- interest as the chair of the All- Party Parliamentary Group and Party Parliamentary Group and phasing out animal experiments in animal research. This is an issue that is very important to me and to that is very important to me and to many of my constituents who contact me about this matter. I recognise that there are many views on this that there are many views on this topic from both sides of this debate, but it becomes clearer that the scientific evidence to ending the scientific evidence to ending the besiegers becomes stronger by the day.

And am also a member of the society and must decide declare an society and must decide declare an interest. Many people may not be aware that five people animals used in research in every day. The experiment licences granted, between January to March The experiment licences granted, between January to licences granted, between January to March 2025 show that over 2 million animals were approved for use across the hundred and 25 projects, including 120 beagles and a licence for research on monkeys. Many species are used including dogs, cats, rats, horses, zebras, fish and chickens.

Many are surprised, the simple messages that animal experiments are failing patients and This later. I recently led the petitions debate at Westminster Hall and banning dogs immediately for scientific and regulatory procedures. This petition now stands over 240,000 signatures, which I think is a great example of public opinion on this issue. And during that debate I reported from the debate and the potential of the dogs bill in 1927, from the other place, which stated experiments on dogs may now be discontinued. And yet a century later here we are, still debating this matter.

It is important to note that nearly 40% of the UK public feel that it is acceptable to use dogs for medical research. I will give way.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend. I recently met with researchers at Glasgow University, working to Glasgow University, working to develop animal free usage methods. They told me that one of the They told me that one of the challenges they face is a lack of dedicated funding. Would my honourable friend agree with me that to transition into more human to transition into more human testing, government must consider making more research funding available.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

available. I thank my honourable friend, for her intervention and I agree with her intervention and I agree with what she said. I think that moving towards animal free research is going to take some time, which is going to take some time, which is why we have come to phasing out and I think the funding structures have to shift, particularly in relation to shift, particularly in relation to academic research, so thank you very much, I thank my honourable very much, I thank my honourable friend for her intervention.

I will give way.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank you for bringing this forward and leading the debate in forward and leading the debate in Westminster Hall. Does the honourable member mentioned that honourable member mentioned that world leading innovations in world leading innovations in treatment developed and life changing impacts on diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's and rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's and across the world. It wouldn't have across the world. It wouldn't have been possible, without limited research on animals and this must be considered as an option, because of considered as an option, because of those people have those diseases, have at least got the opportunity of

**** Possible New Speaker ****

some better life, due to the medications were perfected, because of that. I thank the honourable member for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the honourable member for his intervention. I think, as I said, this is about phasing out animal experiments in research and I am told that the example that he has just given would be possible, without animal research in years to come, scientific experimentation.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Might write honourable friend, the use of animals in research raises serious questions about animal welfare, particularly procedures that cause pain, distress and even death. As my right honourable friend said, making the honourable friend said, making the transition away from animal testing is more feasible, intrigue intro is more feasible, intrigue intro featuring testing and alternatives

**** Possible New Speaker ****

and these can offer faster more ethical results, prepared to traditional animal tests. I fully agree with everything

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I fully agree with everything friend has just said. We will go the friend has just said. We will go the protections dogs bill in 1927 in the protections dogs bill in 1927 in the other place. A century later here we are still debating this matter. It are still debating this matter. It is important to note that only 14% of the UK public feel it is acceptable to use dogs for medical research. With this in mind banning dogs from medical research could be our first step in a full transition to phasing animals stop we should be in college to to follow the USA who have recently published a roadmap, making it the exception, rather than the norm.

Safety, toxicity testing, over the next 3 to 5 years. I will give way.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank honourable friend for giving way to stop she has mentioned giving way to stop she has mentioned giving way to stop she has mentioned , I believe the EU has also done so, looking to phase out animal testing entirely, through its roadmap due to entirely, through its roadmap due to be published in 2026. Would you agree with me that the UK government could perhaps commit to something could perhaps commit to something similar, so that we have that roadmap, so that gives activists and others confidence to know the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

direction of travel. I think my honourable friend for his intervention I agree with everything he has just said.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

everything he has just said. Thank you. Can I congratulate my good friend, from north Ayrshire on securing this debate. Like her and also a member of an animal welfare society. I wonder if she agrees with me and pays tribute to animal research UK have done a lot of work on this issue. A campaign called Herbie's law which is a proposed framework that was set a deadline for 2035, in the UK for phasing out animal experiments in medical research, with support for scientist to make the transition.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my honourable friend for his intervention. I fully agree with everything he has said and I will speak about animal, I will speak about this a bit later in this about this a bit later in this debate. So, to do this at the following needs to be considered. There needs to be a serious shift in farming towards nonanimal methods. Currently the APPG on human health and science estimated that human and and science estimated that human and nonanimal method funding was makes nought point two nought point 6% of nought point two nought point 6% of total biomedical research funding in the UK.

I do not point zero 2% for public expenditure on research and public expenditure on research and development. This needs to shift considerably. For example cosmetics considerably. For example cosmetics brands lush is one of the groups working to feel this funding gap, with price funds that support initiatives to end or increase animal testing. From working on chip technologies that emulate the human liver, developments in models to protect cellular processes, at a molecular level. And a research group improving material by imprinting platforms, for creating 3D organs, these nonanimal methods can be far more relevant and accurate.

Given the success of the cosmetic industry phase-out, this proven approach could be replicated and provided legislative blueprint for the next steps in the medical sector, for example in March 2013 a complete marketing ban on all employees for animal testing is was introduced and the day that ban was introduced in 2013, the European commission confirmed that between 2007 and 2011, a total of 238 million invested in research, to animal testing in the year. This reflects major investment and use well beyond the cosmetics industry.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the honourable member for giving way. On that point does she giving way. On that point does she giving way. On that point does she agree with me that computer modelling and artificial intelligence opportunities are vital for this vital sector, especially as

**** Possible New Speaker ****

for this vital sector, especially as we look to reduce cruelty in animal testing. Thank my honourable friend for her question. I agree with her question. I agree with everything she has said. It is worth pushing the quality of care for pushing the quality of care for animals used in animal experiments, answers to written questions submitted to Parliament indicate submitted to Parliament indicate that over the past seven years, only one has been rejected, indicating one has been rejected, indicating that licences to conduct animal experiments very rarely refuse.

Also to adjust in applications to an album to be granted and for the last four years applications had a mean number of two. Five five iterations before they were granted. Animal three research supports scientist to transition from animal base to human specific research and provide expertise in this area, 154,904 animals were involved in breaches of animal licence conditions in 2023. These include non-compliance, adverse welfare outcomes, failure to provide adequate care, failure to provide food and water and in some cases up to 6 days.

An estimated 92% of drugs are failing in human clinical trials, even though they have passed preclinical tests, including animal tears. We already know that our bodies are very different to animal species and animals are not a reliable testing method. A simple example is the number of foods that are poisonous to animals but not to humans, such as chocolate is to dox. In one example of this failure is in the case of sepsis, a condition that caused 48,000 people in the UK every year.

Researchers rely on testing on mice, get hundreds of drugs which passed tests in mice have gone on to fill in human trials, showing the unsurprising fact that sepsis in humans is different to sepsis in mice. And researchers from Stanford and Harvard are shown that the genetic responses to inflammation in mice are profoundly different from those in humans, so why do we continue to undertake this horrific testing. I could describe the process of inducing sepsis in mice and I actually had written it out for this debate.

However, it is extremely distressing and many find it very upsetting, so I suggest any member interested in finding out what defines a severe animal experiment should look this up to stop it is truly horrific. Many other disease models have a history of poor translate ability in humans, such as sepsis as we just heard, or type II diabetes can be prime candidates for freezing out all human relevant models. An example of this from many years ago is familiarised, familiar might was tested on mice and cause no problems whatsoever.

But when taken by pregnant women, many babies were born without limbs and with real problems. That drug was testing on mice and it had no impact whatsoever on the baby mice that were born. For example, with diabetes it is different from humans in every tear of glucose regulation, yet they are still using experiments rather than human piece methods. We know the Labour manifesto commits the government a part of a scientist, industry and civil society to phase out animal testing.

Science is showing us that nonanimal methods are effective, more relevant and more accurate to the human body. Take innovative technologies, known as a new approach methodologies, which can effectively and safely replace animal experiments, in order to achieve this it is a critical robust timing. I bet me that this House now.
22:01
22:02
Feryal Clark Portrait Feryal Clark MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Enfield North, Labour)
-
-
evening. The day when we can finally evening. The day when we can finally end to an testing cannot come soon enough, sadly though that day is not here yet. Facing animal testing has to be done in lockstep with the to be done in lockstep with the development of safe accurate and validated alternatives. The reality is that technology is not yet is that technology is not yet advanced enough for alternative methods to completely replace the methods to completely replace the use of animals foster consequently, the carefully regulated use of animals remains necessary to protect animals remains necessary to protect humans and wide environment and animal testing continues to be required by international required by international agreements.

Which all global medicine regulators including U.K.'s medicine regulators including U.K.'s medicine and healthcare products agency follow. Such testing is agency follow. Such testing is regulated through the animal, scientific procedures act 1986 known as the ASPA. This act specifies the animals can only be used in science fair specific limited purposes where there is no alternative, where the numbers of animals used is the minimum needed to achieve the scientific benefit and where the potential harm to the animal is limited to the absolute minimum.

Known as the -- 3R's. Replacement, reproduction and refinement. The system also includes three tier systems of licensing which licences each establishment, project and individual involved in performing regulatory procedures involving animals. New technologies as has been referred to by colleagues this evening, including AI do offer potential revolution in ways to create alternative technologies. That's why our manifesto commits us to partner with scientists, industry and civil society as we work towards the phasing out of animal testing.

As the first step towards this end, we will publish a strategy laying out how the government will support the development, validation and uptake of alternative methods later this year. And officials are working on this currently as we speak. It on this currently as we speak. It will set out how we will create a research and innovation system that replaces animals with alternative methods wherever possible, and places the UK at the forefront of international efforts to drive this agenda.

I am proud to say that the U.K.'s already world leading in the development of alternative methods, and we are keen to utilise this technology as much as possible. Currently through the UK research innovation, the government supports

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the development and dissemination of the 3R's. Did she know whether that will

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Did she know whether that will include timelines for the strategy that she has just referenced? Is there likely to be dates and milestones that we are working to or is that just an overall generic description of the direction of travel?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

travel? I thank him for that

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank him for that intervention. The roadmap will set out how we will go to get to a place where we will be phasing out animal testing. I'm not able to set out testing. I'm not able to set out dates and what it will include, but there is huge amounts of investment there is huge amounts of investment into quite a lot of the projects that have been mentioned this evening. So hopefully that will all evening. So hopefully that will all be included in the roadmap, and as colleagues have said, where there is, where other nations are developing new ways to face our animal testing, we will absolutely look into that and see where we can actually replicate that.

So we are following two elements both in Europe and US very closely, and we work very closely both with the FDA and our European colleagues on this matter. This is achieved primarily through funding of the national centre for 3R's, which drive the uptake of alternative technologies and make sure advances are reflected in policy and regulation on animal testing for substances launching 2,000 for its committed over 100 million for its research innovation and early career awards to provide the new 3R's approach scientists and academia and industry to use.

But that is only part of our support. Many UK programs including research on organise, behaviour and AI may eventually lead to the development of no animal testing methods, that are not categorised as such because they are basic research at the moment. The government has also provided over £6 million of funding the seven centres of excellence for regulatory science and innovation to help drive advancement in healthcare, and led by the University of Manchester aims to support the use of competition techniques to test and develop medical products.

To be clear, we want to replace the use of animals in scientific procedures with alternatives where we can. But for now, the carefully regulated use of animals in scientific research remains necessary if we are to protect humans and the wider environment. I'd like to conclude by thanking members once again for their insightful contribution to today's debate and I look forward to working together going forward.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion say, "Aye." Of the that opinion say, "Aye." Of the contrary, "No." The ayes have it.
22:13
None Portrait Motion: Unopposed Return
-

22:13
22:13
None Portrait Motion: Unopposed Return
-

22:13
22:14
This debate has concluded
Return to start of debate - Return to top of page