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Oral Answers to Questions
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Guy Opperman)
The Government continue to provide unprecedented investment into buses. Since the pandemic, we have announced more than £4.5 billion of support for bus services in England outside London, including £1 billion recently reallocated from HS2 to improve services in the north and the midlands through Network North. Bus passenger journeys in England increased by 19% to 3.4 billion in the year ending March 2023, and we are seeing patronage increase in some areas.
Kerry McCarthy
It has been three years since the Government published their national bus strategy, but we are still waiting for the promised guidance on what constitutes “socially and economically necessary” bus services for which local authorities can provide subsidies. While we wait, people in Stapleton, in my constituency, are having to walk a mile to get to a bus stop to catch a bus to the city centre, because First Bus says it is not commercially profitable to run a service through Stapleton and there is no money to subsidise it. Last July, a Minister told me that guidance would be issued in this Parliament, which is clearly close to coming to an end. When will we see that guidance?
Guy Opperman
We particularly want to try to assist the hon. Lady and her local authority with the finances. The West of England combined authority receives £1.1 million every year through the bus service operators grant to subsidise socially necessary bus services. It has also been allocated in excess of £1.2 billion in city region sustainable transport settlements 1 and 2 to deliver transport infrastructure, which includes the bus infrastructure the hon. Lady requires.
Richard Foord
As a regular bus user myself, I recognise it when people in rural Devon tell me that some buses fail to appear, meaning they miss connections with trains as a result. The services are well used by college students. Unreliable bus services not only affect the productivity of the college students, but of their parents who are then called upon to help the students make the journey to college, curtailing their working day. What can the Government do to encourage better co-ordination between rail and buses to get students to college on time?
Guy Opperman
That depends on funding, as the hon. Gentleman will be aware because I raised it with him in his Adjournment debate on 19 December. Devon County Council has been awarded £17.4 million to deliver its bus service improvement plan, but there should be better integration between the providers, the local authority and the rail companies.
Fabian Hamilton
Our bus services in Leeds have been unreliable for years, and yet the Leeds City Council Conservative group wanted more of the same and hoped the problem would just go away. Will the Minister join me in congratulating Labour’s West Yorkshire Mayor, Tracy Brabin, on taking the significant decision to bring our buses back into public control, so they can once again be run for people and not for profit?
Guy Opperman
I had the dubious honour of being praised as the hon. Gentleman’s favourite MP earlier this week—damned by faint praise. I would gently push back that the West Yorkshire Mayor is able to do that only because this Government have provided unprecedented funding of in excess of £2.1 billion in the devolved settlement under the city region sustainable transport settlement.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
Southend welcomes the £1 million of bus service improvement plan funding that has already enabled Conservative cabinet member Kevin Buck to reinstate the much-loved 25A route, but we need more. Will the Minister commit to come to my high-level bus summit on Monday, to listen to residents and see what more we can do?
Guy Opperman
In the time-honoured tradition, I can only say yes to my hon. Friend. She is a doughty champion for Southend. I would be delighted to attend her bus summit, to speak to the relevant councillors and to explain how the bus service improvement plan and the bus service operators’ grant funding is transforming local bus provision.
Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
Never mess with busy mums and dads, not least because I am one and I know that the Minister is as well. Parents in Arlingham, Frampton, Elmore and Longney are really struggling with rural school bus transport. This is not all about money; it is about reliability, safety and fairness. Indeed, they feel that their children are discriminated against versus what children in towns and cities receive. Gloucestershire County Council is doing a lot. It is stretching itself, but we are really struggling to find solutions. Will the Minister meet me and Councillor Stephen Davies to see whether we can find solutions for our parents in the communities?
Guy Opperman
I would be delighted to do so. I welcome the fact that my hon. Friend is standing up for her local community in this way. Clearly, it is a question of integrating the particular services, whether they are local or school provision, but it is definitely something that we can sort.
Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)
It was good to meet my hon. Friend the Minister and the residents of Fishburn in the Sedgefield constituency recently; and he then followed up with Arriva. Will he endorse my campaign to reconnect Fishburn, Trimdon and Sedgefield back with Newton Aycliffe and Darlington, which were cut off by the removal of the X21? Does he also agree that rural services to places such as these are the critical platform to enable opportunity to be spread and a key reason for the BSIP funding?
Guy Opperman
It was a pleasure to attend the meeting at Fishburn Community Hall, meet the local residents and councillors, be offered a pancake on Shrove Tuesday and discuss bus services and bus funding. I have to say that there is no doubt whatever that the improvement of the X21, in particular taking residents and workers into Newton Aycliffe and Darlington, seems to be utterly sensible, and I will continue to support my hon. Friend’s campaign and meet again with Arriva to ensure that it happens for the people of Fishburn and Trimdon.
Simon Lightwood (Wakefield) (Lab/Co-op)
Good morning, Mr Speaker. Passenger watchdog Transport Focus published a report last week, which found huge regional variation in bus passenger satisfaction across the country, with large numbers of passengers “being let down”. Under the Tories’ deregulation of the bus sector, passenger satisfaction with some of our operators is miles below the average of 80%, with some as low as a dismal 66%. In places such as West Yorkshire, Labour Mayors are not standing for it any longer. As my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) said, Tracy Brabin has announced her intention to pursue franchising to reverse decades of Tory decline. But the vast majority of local authorities do not have those powers, so will the Minister adopt Labour’s plan to give every local transport authority the same powers to take back control of their bus services?
Guy Opperman
Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I was at the launch of the said report and have read it. He will be aware that, for example, one reason for the complications is that the number of people working from home has increased by 40%. We have a plan to tackle that with the record investment that is being made to Mayors. He talks about franchising, but it is also the case, without a shadow of a doubt, that he does not have a plan to finance it, particularly for rural local authorities. What is the case is that, when Labour organisations are challenged on this, they struggle to find out how they will deal with the funding. The truth is that there is no plan and they are not putting forward any funding. Individual people who attended that event were genuinely in shock at the shadow Secretary of State’s suggestion that Labour was going to do this, but was unsure about how it would fund it.
Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Anthony Browne)
I wish to make it clear that the dismissal two years ago by P&O Ferries of nearly 800 seafarers without notice and without consultation was completely unacceptable, which is why this Government introduced a comprehensive package of measures to improve the welfare of seafarers and to stop the abuse.
On the specifics of the question, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency periodically inspects vessels that enter UK ports to assess their compliance with international standards, including those in the Maritime Labour Convention. We expect all operators to meet if not exceed those standards, and the UK continues to play a leading role internationally in driving up working conditions across the maritime sector. We are pleased that, just this weekend, P&O Ferries has committed to signing the Seafarers’ Charter along with four other operators. We will work with P&O Ferries to support it in its application for chartered status and assess its welfare standards against the charter’s requirements.
Charlotte Nichols
Two years on from P&O Ferries’ shocking attack on seafarer jobs, trade union rights and employment law, the legal loophole that it used to escape criminal sanctions has still not been closed. The P&O seafarers were UK-based workers, but because P&O Ferries had flagged its ships out to Cyprus, Bermuda and the Bahamas, P&O and, crucially, the Government knew that criminal sanctions, including fines for the offences that it committed, would not apply. Why have the Government not closed that loophole?
Anthony Browne
As I said, the Government have introduced a comprehensive package of measures to stop the abuse of seafarers. In particular, we have introduced the Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023, which will come into force this summer and ensure the minimum wage for seafarers in the UK. We have the minimum wage corridor that is opening up this summer with France, ensuring the minimum wage across the channel, and we have the seafarers’ charter, which raises standards far higher. As I said, P&O and four other operators have applied to join it.
Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab)
Last Sunday marked the two-year anniversary of P&O Ferries illegally sacking 786 workers, but two years on nothing has changed. This week an investigation by ITV and The Guardian revealed that P&O Ferries is not only paying many of its workers less than half the minimum wage but forcing staff to work 12-hour shifts seven days a week for up to 17 weeks at a time. France’s maritime Minister has called that “dangerous” and “not moral”, and has changed the law to stop it happening. The Seafarers’ Wages Act will not curb that treatment, nor will the Government’s voluntary charter, so when will the Government act to prevent those exploitative practices from happening in our waters?
Anthony Browne
The Government agree that seafarers should obviously not be working so hard that they are fatigued, that it is dangerous, and that operators have a duty to ensure that that is not the case. The Seafarers’ Wages Act is obviously primarily focused on wages, and will ensure that seafarers get paid the minimum wage within UK waters. One provision of the seafarers’ charter will ensure that the operators have rosters so that seafarers are not fatigued and overworked. The Department will monitor compliance and work with the operators to ensure that seafarers are not fatigued.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Further to the points made by the Labour Front Bencher, it is just over two years since nearly 800 P&O workers were summarily sacked and thrown off ferries. We will finally debate the Government’s utterly supine and ineffective fire-and-rehire code of practice next week, but it is just over two months since the Government claimed that they were making substantial progress on implementing the nine-point plan for seafarer protections. The Seafarers’ Wages Act still has not come into force, alongside a toothless and voluntary seafarers’ charter, which will not change how P&O operates, even if it signs up to it. We all know that in this House, so is it not time that the Government took meaningful action and got behind our seafarers?
Anthony Browne
The Seafarers’ Wages Act will come into force this summer. Unfortunately, it takes time to pass legislation, and we had to consult on it. No one wants it to come into force quicker than I. The claim that the seafarers’ charter will have no impact is completely untrue. The operators will have to abide by the terms of the charter, which will ensure that seafarers earn the minimum wage throughout their engagements, that they get overtime payments of at least 1.25 times the hourly rate, and that they have rosters that ensure that they are not fatigued and safety is not compromised. The Government will monitor the compliance of the operators with that charter.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
In total, local transport authorities across the west midlands have been allocated around £5 billion to improve local transport services and infrastructure through the city region sustainable transport settlement, bus service improvement plan funding, and our recently announced local transport fund. One thing that would of course hugely help local transport in the west midlands is for voters in the combined authority to re-elect our fantastic Mayor, Andy Street.
Michael Fabricant
Hear, hear! The extension of the Birmingham to Lichfield line goes all the way to Burton and passes the National Memorial Arboretum. At the moment, the line is used only for freight, and I was told four years ago that the cost of upgrading it for passenger traffic would be only about £10 million, which is nothing in the great scheme of things. When will we see the line being completed so that people can go to the National Memorial Arboretum, which has half a million visitors a year, by rail instead of always having to use road?
Mr Harper
I know that my hon. Friend is a long-standing champion of that scheme and takes every opportunity to raise it with us. It is for local authorities to promote schemes for transport in their areas. I am pleased to tell him that, following our decision to cancel the second phase of High Speed 2, we have been able to make significant funds available, so Staffordshire County Council—his local authority—will get just under £260 million from the local transport fund. I urge him to talk to the council to see if it can fund the very modest bid that he has just set out for that scheme.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
The tram system in the west midlands is not going according to plan unfortunately, and the rail line between Moor Street, Snowhill and Marylebone—the Chiltern line, as it is known—is underperforming and has become highly unreliable. The air quality in our area, including in Warwick and Leamington, Snowhill and elsewhere, is very poor because the service is diesel-run. Other countries, such as India, have electrified their main networks. Will the Minister electrify the Chiltern route using the budget freed up from HS2?
Mr Harper
There are significant plans to electrify across the network. Another thing we can do to spend money more cost-effectively is consider where battery trains can be used in order not to electrify the very expensive parts of the network. I am also aware that Chiltern is looking at modernising its rolling stock, particularly to improve air quality. All the things that the hon. Gentleman raises are absolutely in progress. The Rail Minister will be able to say more about them in due course.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Anthony Browne)
The UK ferry sector is a highly competitive commercial market. There are currently a significant number of links to Europe offering a variety of freight and passenger routes from many locations, including five new routes since 2021. Ferry routes are developed on a commercial basis by private sector operators to provide services that meet wider passenger or freight demands. As such, the Department does not currently intend to undertake any such assessment.
Neale Hanvey
The reinstatement of a direct ferry link from the Forth estuary into Europe addresses three key objectives: an environmental objective of reducing road congestion and carbon emissions from heavy goods vehicles; improving import-export resilience; and delivering economic opportunity to Scotland. Industry agrees and ferry operators stand ready to deliver a route, but the Scottish Government lack the courage to support Project Brave. What can be done to encourage the Scottish Government to invest a modest amount of pump-prime funding to realise the economic and environmental benefits that would be felt by all across the UK?
Anthony Browne
As I said in my initial answer, the UK Government see the ferry sector as a commercial market and do not subsidise it. As the hon. Gentleman points out, however, this is a devolved matter—in Scotland, ferries are the responsibility of the Scottish Government—so he should make his protestations about that route to the SNP Government, because it is up to them to decide what to do. I totally understand that they are slightly worried; they have an undistinguished track record on ferries, with various fiascos—maybe it is because they try to get ferries that can hold motorhomes.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Huw Merriman)
The recent National Audit Office report was clear that we expect to spend £400 million on rail reform up to the end of March 2024, compared with initial plans to spend £1.2 billion. The report was also clear that we are forecasting £2 billion of total savings over the current spending review period, which is 77% of our original savings target.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle
It has been three years since we were told that Great British Railways would happen. In my reading of the NAO report, it says that the £1.5 billion of savings will not be met in time. The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers says that another half billion could be achieved if we removed the profit motive from the railways, where a huge amount is wasted on shareholders. When will the Government progress on GBR and when will we get a date for its implementation? Is it not time for them to bite the bullet and renationalise our railways, as we have done successfully with several lines?
Huw Merriman
At the heart of rail reform is integrating track and train. I am very pleased that the Transport Committee has taken on the role of being the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee for the draft Rail Reform Bill, and is now scrutinising that legislation. The cut-off date for evidence is next Wednesday, if the hon. Gentleman would like to put his suggestions forward. I hope that the Committee will complete its report by July; the Government will have two months to respond to the recommendations, and if we have cross-party support for an integrated rail body that brings track and train together, I hope we will be able to bring in legislation to that effect, and improve rail services for everyone.
Dr Huq
High Speed 2, with its out-of-control costs, is compounding local misery, because it is now set to close the vital artery of Old Oak Common Lane for four to five years. We only know that because it leaked out, which shows the Government’s disregard for community and transparency. What assurances can the Minister give about funding for the Euston leg, so that the world-class interchange that we were promised does not end up being the terminus, and so that my long-suffering residents do not pay the price of Government project mismanagement by being hemmed in until 2030 because they cannot get on their one access road to the outside?
Huw Merriman
An Old Oak Common terminus provides a great opportunity for regeneration in the area. I have visited a number of times, and I am committed to working with the community to minimise impacts. One of the ways that is being done is by ensuring that the spoil is removed by conveyor, rather than by lorry. We do seek to minimise the impact; we recognise that when new rail stations are built, there is an impact.
Turning to the hon. Lady’s concern about Euston, I have met our property developer partners Lendlease. Our aim is to deliver not just a station, but the largest public sector land deal in London, which will completely regenerate the area. It will deliver offices, jobs and homes, and will also provide the funding to deliver the station, not just for HS2 but for Network Rail. We are committed to ensuring that Network North delivers that station.
Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab)
Earlier this month, the National Audit Office issued a damning report that made it clear that this Government’s refusal to bring forward long-delayed rail reforms is costing taxpayers dearly. Avanti West Coast made the amount of waste in our rail system crystal clear when it bragged about getting “free money” from Government, despite the truly shocking service that it delivers, so it should come as no surprise that yesterday, northern Mayors and council leaders unanimously called for Avanti to lose its contract due to its appalling service. The question for the Minister today is simple: will he strip Avanti of its contract—yes or no?
Huw Merriman
No, we will not. The reason is that there are issues with the west coast main line that will remain, regardless of who the operator is. It is essential to get underneath the bonnet, look at the issues and fix them, rather than looking just at what is on the side of the car. To take just one four-week period from Christmas, 65% of the delays in that period were down not to the operator but Network Rail, and they involved weather-related issues as well as trespass and, sadly, suicides, which we need to minimise.
We also have issues with restrictive contracts, and I would like change there. For example, Avanti is unique as an operator, in the sense that its drivers will not double-trip. They will do one return journey, but will not go over the same leg of rail twice. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) asks whose fault that is. That contract was agreed in 1997, so maybe we know whose fault it was. That sums up this ludicrous situation: we are talking about a contract from 1997 that was due to end in five years, in 2002, yet that contract between the union and any operator remains. Until we can make progress on restrictive contracts, we will not be able to make changes. A Government cannot break the contract—it is between the operator and the union. I welcome the steps that Mick Lynch—
Mr Speaker
Order. I do not mind having an Adjournment debate or statement on this subject if we need one—I am more than happy to allow one—but we cannot have it now; I have a bit to get through. But the Minister’s answer was excellent, I am sure. I call the SNP spokesman.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I start by thanking Alex Hynes for having done a fantastic job running Scotland’s Railway for seven years. He is departing to become the director general of rail at the Department for Transport, where he will help steer rail reform. And what a job he has! As we have heard, the National Audit Office said that rail reform was not on track. Not only are there £1.5 billion a year in lost savings, but the Department has failed to make planned savings of £4.1 billion from workforce reforms and the establishment of Great British Railways. Cuts of £4.1 billion to the transport budget were nevertheless announced by the Chancellor two weeks ago. Does the Minister agree that his Government are unable to make savings, but all too willing to make cuts?
Huw Merriman
No, I do not. I am delighted at the appointment of Alex Hynes, who will become a director general in the Department for Transport. He will put track and train together in the Department, and that departmental section will move out to Great British Railways once the legislation is put in place, so I do not agree at all. The appointment demonstrates that we are getting on with rail reform by appointing the right staff, and we have started on the legislative path.
Mr Speaker, I know I take too long at the Dispatch Box when I talk about the need to fix such contracts, but they are complicated. This session should not be about cheap soundbites; it does not work like that. It should be about getting into the detail. There are sticky contract provisions that the courts will not allow a Government or an operator to break unilaterally. I do wish this House would be a bit more intellectual in its approach to scrutiny.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Guy Opperman)
This Government are investing more than any other in active travel. Around £15 million has been provided to Newcastle upon Tyne since 2020-21 to deliver high-quality infrastructure. That is supported by over £2 million of funding to Transport North East to improve capability across the region. Active Travel England supports local authorities in delivering maximum value for money by ensuring that schemes comply with the relevant guidance, and councils receive tailored support from the Government.
Chi Onwurah
Walking and cycling prevent 1,500 serious long-term health conditions on Tyneside every year, according to the walking and cycling index, and they bring in £400 million in economic benefits, so it is no wonder that half of Tynesiders want to walk or wheel more, and that two fifths want to cycle more, but if they are to do that, the streets need to be made safer. What is the Minister doing, apart from undermining low traffic neighbourhoods, to make our streets safer for walking, wheeling and cycling?
Guy Opperman
With great respect to the hon. Lady, she knows full well that her council attempted to have an active travel scheme in Jesmond, and it so messed it up that it had to scrap the scheme. The LTN was scrapped, and there were 23,000 objections and a considerable waste of money. With due respect, active travel is doing a great job, and we support it, but councils have to take local communities with them.
Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Huw Merriman)
Officials and I are focusing on improving rail services in the short and long term. This week, I brought together representatives from across the rail industry for a leaders in rail session to discuss how, collectively, we can make changes to deliver a better passenger experience. Longer term, we remain committed to bringing track and train back together under Great British Railways, and to continuing to build on the £100 billion of investment since 2010.
Elliot Colburn
Carshalton and Wallington is one of the poorer parts of London for connectivity. It was promised that the ultra low emission zone would bring additional public transport investment, but instead the 455 bus has been scrapped, the Go Sutton bus has been scrapped, the 410 bus service is being reduced, and the Superloop is just an existing bus route that has been rebranded. One thing that would improve connectivity is delivering on the Croydon area remodelling scheme that National Rail and Network Rail are working on to improve connectivity in London and the south-east. What discussions is the Department having with Network Rail about moving this project forward?
Huw Merriman
I thank my hon. Friend, who is an absolute champion of that project, and he makes his point clear. Upgrades made in the Gatwick area are already delivering significant improvements to the Brighton main line, and the industry continually reviews how best to respond to changes in demand. I understand that my hon. Friend has been in discussions with the operator on the options for increasing capacity on busy weekend services between Carshalton and London Victoria, and that Govia Thameslink Railway will shortly respond to him directly. I will continue to work with him on the enhancement project that he champions.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
The leader of Nottinghamshire County Council, who has a nice side hustle as the hon. Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley), once said:
“The full delivery of HS2’s Eastern Leg is what the East Midlands needs to support and create highly skilled jobs, link communities to opportunities and decarbonise our transport network.”
As he failed to persuade the Prime Minister, who cancelled that vital investment in our region’s rail services, can the Minister tell me how we will now deliver the transformative change to our connectivity, sustainability, job creation, productivity and social mobility that HS2 promised? Filling a few potholes will not cut it.
Huw Merriman
I certainly look forward to the day when my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) is also an excellent East Midlands Mayor, and we are devolving more powers to the east midlands to help him with that task. The hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) references HS2 moneys, from which more than a £1 billion will be allocated to the Mayor of the East Midlands to spend on the transport projects that he and, indeed, the hon. Lady may want. That allows us to devolve more projects to the local area, and we have been absolutely clear that all the moneys that have been saved as a result of the HS2 cancellation will be reinvested primarily in the north and the midlands.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
The recent Budget contains welcome additional funding for east-west rail. What are the Minister’s intentions for that additional funding? May I suggest that he work with the Bletchley towns fund board, of which I am a member, on using the money to provide an additional eastern entrance to Bletchley station, which will improve accessibility and enhance regeneration?
Huw Merriman
I am happy to work with the Chair of the Select Committee, and I thank him for the evidence session we had on east-west rail. It was also brilliant to go to the Winslow and Calvert area to see that final link put in place. The first phase of east-west rail is ready for opening next year. Winslow station is looking absolutely superb, and I am so excited to see rail services come back there. On the second phase from Bletchley to Bedford, as he rightly says, money has been allocated from the last Budget to deliver that. I am certainly happy to meet him and the Bletchley team to see what more they can do to enhance the station for both the first and second phases.
Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)
Wandsworth Town and Battersea Park stations in my constituency will soon be made fully accessible, thanks to the Access for All funding. Queenstown Road has been nominated for the next round of funding, but a decision has still not been made. Can the Minister tell the House when the Department plans to announce which stations have been successful in control period 7? Will they include Queenstown Road in my Battersea constituency?
Huw Merriman
I am delighted by the progress that the hon. Lady mentions, and she is right about that third station. I will meet officials, so that I can write to her with the details. I am keen to work with her local authority to see how we can use regeneration moneys to achieve that end. As for building on the 240 Access for All step-free access stations that we have, we will make decisions shortly. We have been through 300 brilliant applications, and we are shortlisting them for delivery. I will happily write to her to ensure that she has the detail about her projects.
Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
Long before I was elected, it had been identified that in the east direction, the Leeds to Selby railway line had only a footbridge, which restricted access for so many people. Will my hon. Friend join me in welcoming the construction taking place on the Access for All bridge in Garforth? It shows that Conservative MPs working with Conservative Governments improve rail services for all constituents.
Huw Merriman
My right hon. Friend is spot on, as always. I thank him for his work, because ultimately that project would not have got off the ground without the campaigning and partnership that he provided. It just shows that a superb MP working in the community, and the Access for All stations fund, which has delivered 240 projects and will deliver more, is a winning partnership.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Passengers in my constituency of Edinburgh West face consistently overcrowded trains from ScotRail, which was taken into public ownership by the Scottish Government in 2022; an unreliable service from Avanti; and now a staggering pilot from London North Eastern Railway, in which east coast main line prices from Waverley to King’s Cross will increase by 123% in some cases. Does the Minister agree that that is not providing a good service to the people of Edinburgh, or those anywhere else on that line? It is the wrong move when we are trying to encourage more people on to the railways.
Huw Merriman
The trial with LNER tries to give passengers greater flexibility. They can now get on a train 70 minutes either side of the one that they booked, rather than just the one fixed train. Only 11% of fares are impacted in that trial, and 55% are better value than before. Working with our partners at LNER, we are trying to flatten out demand, rather than having crowded trains followed by quieter trains. We hope to change the number of passengers on trains, which would make for a better service overall. I will happily write to the hon. Lady, because I believe that the trial has great merits. We sometimes have to be bold and try fares and ticketing reform. If we do not, we will never change the system that many criticise for being too complex.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
Thanks to the support and determination of West Midlands Mayor Andy Street, we will see a train station and the return of passenger train services to Aldridge for the first time in 65 years, which is something many people thought would never happen. The service will start at Walsall, but now that we have the west midlands rail hub, will my hon. Friend agree to continue to work with me and others to secure a service to London?
Huw Merriman
Yes indeed. Thanks to our great West Midlands Mayor Andy Street, we now have the midlands rail hub, which will better connect more than 50 stations across the midlands. My right hon. Friend has championed Aldridge station for many years, and it is now being delivered. As she said, the service to Walsall will open, and it will have a car park as well as a platform service. I am committed to working with her to extend that reach even further. I congratulate her on delivering that station.
Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab)
The Minister will have seen reports this week that 3,000 jobs are at risk at Alstom rail factory in Derby. The Government told us that they were doing everything in their power to prevent those job losses, but they appear to be failing. It gets worse: this morning, I received correspondence from Hitachi Rail, warning that despite years of representation to Ministers, no solution has been found that will keep its order books full and safeguard the future of 700 staff at its factory in Newton Aycliffe. The Secretary of State has it in his power to vary contracts and commission the necessary orders. When will he do that and protect those jobs?
Huw Merriman
The Secretary of State has led for the Department on the response to Hitachi and Alstom, and their understandable concerns about orders. As I have said, we have a challenge, in that while fleet can last from 35 to 40 years, the average age of our fleet is under 17 years. We have modernised 8,000 out of our 15,500 carriages, and as a result there is a lag with the order book. We are doing everything we can to work with all four train manufacturers to bring more tenders through. Those will be for the TransPennine Express, Northern, Southeastern and, as the Secretary of State mentioned, Chiltern Railways. The work to find a resolution is done in partnership between train manufacturers, the Secretary of State and the Department, and we hope to find that resolution.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Huw Merriman)
I recognise my right hon. Friend’s long-standing campaign on this scheme; she has worked alongside stakeholders including the North Cotswold Line Task Force. We continue to work with local stakeholders on their aspirations for enhancements to the line.
Harriett Baldwin
I thank the team of Ministers for the £209 million that has been allocated to Worcestershire County Council from HS2 money, to help with local transport improvements. Will the Minister endorse a project in which we work with Oxfordshire County Council to find ways to redouble sections of the Oxford to Worcester line? That will result in faster, more frequent and more reliable services on the beautiful north Cotswold line.
Huw Merriman
As my right hon. Friend mentions, additional funding through Network North will help. Network Rail has been working with the taskforce and its consultants on timetable capacity and analysis, to see whether there is a smarter way to deliver additional services, with fewer infrastructure interventions. We expect that work to complete next month. I would be delighted if my right hon. Friend would join me and leaders of Worcestershire and Oxfordshire County Councils, and her neighbouring MP, to discuss this matter in the coming weeks.
Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
Network North announced £19.8 billion of investment in the north of England, including £2.5 billion for the local transport fund, and is increasing the city region sustainable transport settlements to £12.4 billion from 2027. My hon. Friend’s local authority, Lancashire County Council, will receive nearly £500 million from the local transport fund, an additional £7 million for the bus service improvement plan, and an uplift of £244.5 million for road resurfacing.
Katherine Fletcher
To truly build our northern powerhouse and contribute to economic growth, direct connections between cities such as Liverpool and Preston are really important. Does the Secretary of State agree that taking out the buffers at Ormskirk, which were put in for purely administrative reasons in the 1960s and prevent direct trains, is a great idea and that such services would be further enabled by battery technology? Does he agree that that would enhance the case for stopping the nonsense at Midge Hall station, which was closed by Beeching in the ’60s, where passenger trains stop but passengers can only peer out at the platform because they cannot get on or off?
Mr Harper
I am sure that my hon. Friend is glad to have your endorsement for her question, Mr Speaker. The Government believe that local authorities are best placed to promote and take forward those schemes and, as I said, the local transport fund in the north will mean that £2.5 billion will be available for them. I encourage her to work with stakeholders such as Lancashire County Council. I had the pleasure of discussing a number of those local schemes when I recently met its leadership on a visit to Preston.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
When I have been contacted by constituents excited by the news of the local transport fund, I have asked my local council officers when we can begin some of these projects, but they have been told by Department for Transport civil servants that the bulk of the money will not come until the end of the decade. When will we have some timelines for the delivery of that money? I do not want my constituents to have their expectations raised unreasonably.
Mr Harper
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman’s local authority will get £168 million. We have been clear that that money will come over a seven-year period, and we will shortly publish guidance for the local authority on how it can go about that. I hope he will be pleased to know that we will make it clear to local councils that when they put their plans together, Members of Parliament should be involved in developing schemes so that he and other hon. Members can represent their constituents and their local transport priorities.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
If the Secretary of State wants to improve connectivity between our great northern cities, he might want to start by repairing the roads. The backlog of local road repairs has gone up by 16% this year alone to £16.3 billion. The Network North announcement is spread over 11 years, and its average annual contribution accounts for only a third of the £2.3 billion annual increase in the backlog. That is not all going to roads anyway, and it will go nowhere near addressing the damage done since 2016, when the Government slashed the road repair budget in half. When will the Secretary of State apologise to road users for the damage that his Government have caused and admit that they have failed to repair the potholes?
Mr Harper
What the hon. Gentleman says is interesting. We made a commitment to take the money from the cancellation of the second phase of High Speed 2 to make £8.3 billion available for local road maintenance—[Interruption.] Yes, it is over 11 years, but we made the first tranche of money available this financial year, and again next financial year. We will set out the allocations in due course. That money is available only because we made the decision to cancel the second phase of HS2. Labour cannot give a straight answer on that question, and it has not committed to spending that £8.3 billion at all. Drivers know that they will only get that investment with a Conservative Government.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
We are getting on with delivering the plan for drivers, with new statutory guidance requiring local support for low-traffic neighbourhoods and strengthened guidance supporting 20 mph limits where they make sense—not in blanket measures, as in Wales. If councils do not listen, they could see their future funding affected. We are consulting on removing the profit motive from council traffic enforcement while speeding up traffic lights across the country.
As I just said, that follows our record funding increase for improving our roads, with £8.3 billion of reallocated HS2 funding—something that Opposition Members have refused to support. There is nothing wrong with driving, and the plan for drivers, which was dismissed as nonsense by the shadow Secretary of State, shows that only the Government are on the side of drivers.
Chi Onwurah
I thank the Minister for buses, the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), for sharing with me the list of actions he managed to elicit from north-east bus operators following my debate on real-time bus information. However, no dates were given. This afternoon, our fantastic candidate for North East Mayor, Kim McGuinness, is launching her vision for transport in the north-east. Can the Minister confirm that those actions will be fulfilled to enable her to deliver on her commitment to real-time bus information as soon as possible?
Mr Harper
I am pleased to be able to tell the hon. Lady that within a week of her debate in Westminster Hall, my hon. Friend the Minister for buses made sure that those meetings took place, so the actions that are necessary are under way. I am sure that my hon. Friend will be able to update her on the specific timeline in due course.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Huw Merriman)
There was a retendering at Chalkwell, and Network Rail found that the existing structures would not be suitable to deliver the project as it stood. The design work is going on right now and building will happen next year. My hon. Friend is right that the delay is not acceptable. I will meet her at Chalkwell station and bring the Network Rail team along so that we can talk her through the project and its challenges and, if we can, show how we will speed it up.
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
If the Secretary of State is not spouting conspiracy theories, he is exuding incompetence. Ashford authorities warned Parliament that 14 hours of queues were a “reasonable worst case” scenario with the implementation of the EU entry/exit system this autumn. Why has he failed to adequately prepare for the queues at our ports and airports?
Mr Harper
I just do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s characterisation. We are working very hard with colleagues across Government. I recently had a very good meeting with colleagues at the port of Dover, and we meet with other operators. There are very good plans in place, work is proceeding at pace, and I am confident that the EES will go very smoothly when introduced. The plans are in place and work is under way.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)
I do not have a topical question.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Huw Merriman
I thank my hon. Friend. He has been a champion not only for Cleethorpes’ direct rail service, but for the east coast main line timetable change that was announced in the Budget. We are now going through the stages with those who use the lines to ensure we do not have any timetabling issues like those that arose in May 2018. I hope we will come to a position on this in some weeks and that I can give him more detail, but I very much hope to see those direct services to Cleethorpes. This timetable change was designed to bring in great improvements such as the one he has championed.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Guy Opperman)
That is a matter for the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. I will take it up with the Department and make sure that it writes to the hon. Lady.
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
Huw Merriman
That is a challenge. The shortage of crew is largely down to sickness, the level of which is about 8.5%, which is too high. We are working with the operator to ensure that it is working on that, and with the northern rail partnership, to ensure there is more resilience on that line. The training backlog needs to be cleared, working in co-operation with the unions rather than them going on strike. We should be able to ease that backlog and get a better service for my hon. Friend and his constituents.
Sarah Dyke (Somerton and Frome) (LD)
Last week, the Prime Minister failed to provide my constituents with any assurance about proposals for a train station in the Somerton and Langport area, but he did state that money was available to invest in local transport across the country. Will my constituents see that money? Once again, when will the Langport Transport Group hear back regarding its strategic business case, which it submitted almost two years ago?
Huw Merriman
I will happily write to the hon. Lady and the Langport Transport Group so that they have a response, if they feel that that is outstanding. The Prime Minister has committed to ensure that the Network North money made available from the cancellation of High Speed 2 is spent where HS2 would have been delivered. That mostly includes the north and the midlands, but there will be other projects in the rest of the country through the recycling of the funding from Euston.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
Mr Harper
I assure my right hon. Friend that National Highways works closely with local communities when delivering major projects, and it will continue to do so on the A12 widening scheme. My Department is committed to delivering the scheme, and granted consent for it on 12 January but, as she said, it is subject to an application for judicial review. I therefore cannot add anything further, but I will continue to work with her local residents. If at any time she wants to raise issues with the scheme with me, I will be delighted to meet her.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
I thank Ministers for facilitating discussions with the operators of the search and rescue helicopter service based in my constituency about the proposed response times. They have been fairly productive so far, and we will see what the outcome is. It is apparent already that the decisions are made solely on the basis of the number of calls and not the nature of the work undertaken. If the contract conforms to that, can we ensure that future contracts do not leave us exposed in that way?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Anthony Browne)
I know how important the helicopter search and rescue services are in Orkney and Shetland. The right hon. Gentleman has been a big campaigner for them, and has asked various questions and secured various debates on the matter. A review is going on about the recent incident data which will report in the summer, and we expect to publish it by the end of the year. That should include the answers to his questions. We are investing more than £1 billion in the new search and rescue service. The number of bases will go from 10 to 12 overall, and there will be no closure of bases and no change to services in Orkney and Shetland before October 2026.
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
Guy Opperman
My hon. Friend is right in his estimation of the dates. A decision will be made in a matter of months, and certainly by the summer. I am very happy to sit down and have a discussion. I will be visiting the site very shortly.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
People across Chesterfield were delighted when the long-standing campaign for the Staveley regeneration route was given the thumbs up by the Government, but were then sent into despair when Derbyshire County Council said it did not have the funds to provide its small contribution towards it. Will the Secretary of State update us on whether it will be delivered? What concerns does he have about the fact that the poverty of local government sometimes gets in the way of money that his Department has allocated?
Guy Opperman
I have looked into this particular scheme and met other colleagues in the House about it. I will write to the hon. Gentleman in detail. I am sure we can continue with the project.
Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)
My constituents and businesses face an additional tax to cross the River Tamar to our main city and beyond. Taking over such key pieces of infrastructure and funding them through tax measures which they already pay would create a level economic playing field and help level up my part of the country. Will the Minister at least give a contribution towards the maintenance of these facilities, so this tax does not go up again?
Guy Opperman
My hon. Friend raised this issue with the Prime Minister only yesterday; she is a fantastic campaigner on issues relating to the Tamar bridge. I accept entirely that the Tamar Bridge and Torpoint Ferry joint committee has recently looked at the situation. An application is being considered by the Transport Secretary, and I am happy to meet her again to discuss it further.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Is the Secretary of State aware that the UK used to be one of the safest countries in the world, along with Sweden, in terms of road accidents? He has campaigned with the Prime Minister to help the driver, but drivers are killing more vulnerable road users and passengers than for a very long time. Is it not time that this Government took road safety and the health and welfare of pedestrians and vulnerable road users more seriously?
Mr Harper
I will say two things. First, on Monday we announced a further £35 million for our safer roads fund. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman’s general point simply is not right. I think I am right in saying that out of 38 comparable countries, we are fifth best in the world. We have a very good road safety record and, actually, that position is maintained. We focus on road safety in everything we do, particularly for vulnerable road users. That is at the heart of all our policymaking.
Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)
The A338/A346, which runs north-south through Marlborough, is regularly choked nose to tail with heavy goods traffic. The villages of the Ogbournes and the Collingbournes are particularly affected, including Collingbourne Ducis, where a little girl was killed three years ago by a heavy goods vehicle. That traffic should really be on the A34 and the A36 to the east and the west. We have been waiting many months now for the results of the north-south connectivity review. Will the Minister tell us when that will happen, so that we can have a better system for managing heavy goods traffic through Wiltshire?
Guy Opperman
As my hon. Friend knows, I grew up in Wexcombe and I know that particular area of Collingbourne very well. I pass on my condolences to the individual family. He knows that there are powers under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. I will write to him in detail with the powers that local authorities have to address that particular point. On the specifics of the review, that will be contained in road investment strategy 3, which will be published very shortly.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
I listened to the Minister’s response earlier, on why Avanti should continue to provide rail services. It sounded like he was reading from one of its press releases. The litany of excuses was very long, blaming everyone but itself. When will he listen to the leaders of the north? When will he listen to the people of the north and get rid of Avanti?
Huw Merriman
The point I was making is that if the operator changes, the contracts between operator and the unions will remain unless the unions are willing to release. There cannot be a unilateral change. The courts would not allow it. As I say, that was put in place in 1997. It was supposed to end in 2002, but continued. It is now, effectively, a part of a term and condition. A change of operator will not make any difference to that. I do listen to those in the north and I am delighted that I will be listening to the leader of ASLEF, because he has agreed to sit down with me so we can discuss those terms. I hope I can work with all Members of the House to make that happen.
Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
My Highways Act 1980 (Amendment) Bill, which is due to have its Second Reading tomorrow, would make it easier for motorists to make claims against local authorities for damage caused to their cars by neglect of road maintenance and by potholes. Why are the Government not supporting my Bill?
Guy Opperman
I shall be the duty Minister tomorrow, and I look forward to dealing with this matter.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
The Government have been promising action on pavement parking for a decade, but despite a consultation in 2020, we are still no further forward. Will the Minister finally listen to disabled people, parents, children and local councils who overwhelmingly support a ban, and act to curb this dangerous problem?
Guy Opperman
That particular issue is on my desk, and we are considering it at present. I can assure the hon. Lady that the results of the consultation will be published in the summer.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
For nearly half a century the people of Romford, and those of wider Essex and east London, have been waiting for the Gallows Corner A12/A127 junction to be reconstructed. Is it not time we had some investment for the people of Romford? It seems to go everywhere else; let us have some in the London borough of Havering, please.
Guy Opperman
As my hon. Friend knows, the Government are passionately committed to improving the A12. Only recently it was the subject of litigation brought by one individual. I will happily sit down with my hon. Friend, who for many a year has been a doughty campaigner for Romford. I entirely agree with him that this needs to be addressed.
Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)
Sadly, Marks & Spencer announced yesterday that it would be closing its store in Doncaster, but would be expanding its operation to a retail outlet where there is free parking. Will the Secretary of State come to Doncaster to see how poor planning in connection with pedestrianisation, cycle lanes and expensive parking is driving customers out of Doncaster and turning my city into a ghost town? Hopefully, with his help we can reverse this trend.
Guy Opperman
I was delighted to visit my hon. Friend recently, engage with him and deal with the individual points that he raised, but I would be happy to sit down and talk to him again. It seems to me that there is a way forward with buses and other forms of transport to help local residents to travel to the shopping centre that he has mentioned: surely the integrated, multimodal approach is the way ahead.
Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)
Following many conversations and much engagement, the Secretary of State and the Ministers are well aware that companies in the railway rolling stock supply chain, such as Hitachi Newton Aycliffe, face significant short-term challenges. Next year we will celebrate the 200th anniversary of the first passenger railway in the world, which runs past a Hitachi factory. Can the Secretary of State update me on what he is doing to ensure that companies such as Hitachi have a long-term future in the UK to build the next generation of north-east trains?
Mr Harper
My hon. Friend has been a doughty campaigner for his constituents. He has already raised this issue with me on a number of occasions, and I am glad that he has raised it again.
I have had frequent meetings with Hitachi’s management in both the UK and Japan, and we are working very hard to deal with the situation. Hitachi’s HS2 order was confirmed on the original terms, and I am working with its representatives. The Rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), recently published the details of the future rolling stock that is in the pipeline, and Hitachi is very competitively placed to win orders for much of that. I hope we will be able to reach a successful conclusion in the very near future.
Mr Speaker
Before we come to business questions, I have to inform the House that there is an error in the Future Business section of the Order Paper. The Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill, introduced by the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar), should appear as the first item of business tomorrow. It has been corrected in the online version, and will appear correctly on tomorrow’s Order Paper.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I thank you, and indeed the Clerks, for your speedy action in resolving this? The test of an organisation is not whether mistakes happen—they do— but how quickly they are corrected. I hope that your statement will also make clear to Members who were thinking of attending tomorrow that my Bill will be No. 1 on the Order Paper, and that they will be here to speed it on its way to the statute book.
Mr Speaker
I think we have just had the plug and the advertisement.
Business of the House
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
To ask the Leader of the House if she will give us the forthcoming business.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Penny Mordaunt)
The business for the week commencing 25 March will include:
Monday 25 March—Remaining stages of the Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords], followed by a motion relating to the appointment of an acting parliamentary and health service ombudsman.
Tuesday 26 March—Committee of the whole House and remaining stages of the Pedicabs (London) Bill [Lords], followed by a debate on a motion relating to the national policy statement for national networks.
The House will rise for the Easter recess at the conclusion of business on Tuesday 26 March and return on Monday 15 April.
The provisional business for the week commencing 15 April includes:
Monday 15 April—Consideration of a Lords message to the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill, followed by debate on a motion on hospice funding. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee.
Tuesday 16 April—Second Reading of the Tobacco and Vapes Bill.
Wednesday 17 April—If necessary, consideration of a Lords message to the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill, followed by Second Reading of the Finance (No. 2) Bill.
Thursday 18 April—Debate on a motion on access to redress schemes, followed by debate on a motion on the covid-19 pandemic response and trends in excess deaths. The subjects for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee.
Friday 19 April—Private Members’ Bills.
Lucy Powell
First, may I congratulate Vaughan Gething on his election as First Minister of Wales? Vaughan has made history as the first black leader of any European country, which is something I am sure the whole House can be proud of—we certainly are.
Following my question last week, it is good to see that the Tobacco and Vapes Bill has now been timetabled, although it looks like the Government will be relying on our votes to pass their flagship Bill. I also welcome the Football Governance Bill finally being published, but when will we get its Second Reading?
This could have been our last business questions before a general election in May, but the Prime Minister bottled it. He may hope that going later increases his chances, but he has quickly found out that he has made things worse. He is being buffeted by events rather than being in control of them, with more division, more chatter and his authority ebbing away day after day. The many resets are not working. The public are just sick to death of Tory chaos. No wonder we are rising early for Easter.
The House of Commons guide to procedure states that the Government should reply to the recommendations in a Select Committee report within two months, so where is the Leader of the House’s response to the Procedure Committee’s report on the accountability of Secretaries of State in the Lords? It was published over two months ago, and she has repeatedly told us that she would reply to it. When will she bring forward the motion? Just this week, the Foreign Office had to be dragged to Parliament again to discuss the horrific situation in Gaza and Rafah. It is not on. She said she wanted the views of the Lords Procedure and Privileges Committee first. However, I understand that she has still not contacted it. Has she?
Let us address the elephant in the room. There is an unusual level of interest in today’s business questions, following the swirling rumours and speculation. Thousands of column inches have been written about the unfolding drama. Will she, won’t she? When will it come to a head? Yet the Leader of the House has remained tight-lipped, ducking the question, but now we have the answer. The Rwanda ping-pong will not take place until after Easter. If it is such an emergency, why has the Leader of the House yet again delayed programming this legislation? She delayed Committee stage over Christmas because of disquiet among Conservative Members, and now she has pushed back further Lords amendments until after Easter.
I know the Leader of the House will want to blame the Lords, but it is her timetable and it keeps getting stretched. Is it because the costs just keep going up and up, and the scheme is unworkable? On top of the £500 million price tag for the 300 people the Home Office intends to send to Rwanda, the National Audit Office’s damning report, published yesterday, adds to the Department’s woes. Not only is the Home Office spending £8 million a day on hotels; it has wasted tens of millions of pounds on new sites to house asylum seekers that will never be used. The truth is that if the Government were ready to implement the scheme, we would see the Bill back here next week. This is their timetable and their delay—no one else’s.
I know the Leader of the House will be quick to herald this week’s inflation figures as some kind of proof that the Government’s plan is working. [Interruption.] I knew that would get a cheer, but she might be less keen to highlight the ever rising housing costs that are not included in those figures. Rents are up 9% in the last year, and mortgage rates are still crippling homeowners. That is why, for the first time on record, living standards have fallen in this Parliament.
The Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the right hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom), claimed this morning that the cost of living crisis is over. The Government are so out of touch that it is embarrassing, so can I ask about their plans for the economy? They say they want to scrap national insurance altogether, and the Chancellor floated another two-point cut yesterday, but who is going to pay for this £46 billion unfunded promise? Will it be pensioners or the health service? People deserve to know.
The last time the Conservatives embarked on such a huge unfunded tax cut, they crashed the economy and had to get rid of their Prime Minister. I know that many Conservative Members are now actively discussing wielding the sword and a coronation, both of which the Leader of the House is accustomed to, but I have previously heard her in these sessions pay rather fulsome, sometimes slightly over-the-top, personal tribute to the Prime Minister. Given that so many are losing faith, I thought she might want to take this opportunity to give us another gushing homage. Anything less might be misinterpreted. Last time she described him as a “signpost” but, deep down, she knows that the only direction he points towards is crushing defeat.
Penny Mordaunt
I have briefly emerged from under the hairdryer and put down my Take a Break magazine, and not only found my way to the Chamber this morning but remembered on which side I am supposed to sit, to be present and correct for business questions, which is quite a feat if media reports are to be believed.
I am buoyed by what the hon. Lady has said. After all, we have seen inflation fall to 3.4% this week. Real wages are rising, we have positive growth, household energy bills will fall by £250 a year in a couple of weeks’ time, average disposable incomes are growing and we have signed the accession treaty to the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership, which will create a huge number of high-wage jobs. It is confirmation that the plan is working when, on Thursdays, the Opposition focus not on these real-world facts but on the Westminster rumour vortex.
I will address the hon. Lady’s points in turn. First, I join her in congratulating Vaughan Gething. I wish him well in his new post.
I am glad that the Opposition welcome the Tobacco and Vapes Bill and the Football Governance Bill, and I look forward to their support and involvement. I am still in time to respond to the Procedure Committee’s report on the Foreign Secretary’s accountability to this House, on which their lordships will deliberate.
The hon. Lady brought up Rwanda, and I wish to clarify that I have no wish to blame their lordships for the delay to that Bill. I make it clear that I wish to blame Labour Lords for the delay. For all Labour’s talk of being tough on borders, it has voted against our plans 111 times, and it has voted against our measures to stop the boats 98 times. Despite its tough talk on crime, Labour has voted against our plans for tougher sentences and new police powers.
This week we have learned that, despite all the armed forces frottage coming from Labour Front Benchers, they are planning an EU defence pact at a time when all efforts should be with NATO, which has standards and clear and agreed principles about what it will do and under what circumstances, and it has been busy—Ukraine, Kosovo, Iraq, support for the African Union, Baltic air policing, Aegean maritime security, Operation Sea Guardian, a standing naval force and, of course, disaster relief. In contrast, since its creation in 2007, the EU battle group, which has no such agreed threshold for deployment, has never got out the door.
There could be no greater metaphor to illustrate the differing approaches between our two parties: Labour is all talk, including 126 minutes on ferrets last week, whereas we offer practical action. It is virtue signalling over there versus results over here. It is unfunded policies over there versus costed proposals over here. It is no plan versus a plan that is working. To borrow from the Opposition’s new-found heroine, Margaret Thatcher: if you want something saying, wait long enough and Labour will say it. If you want something doing, vote Conservative.
Further business will be announced in the usual way.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
As the House may be aware, the Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee is not able to be here because his daughter-in-law is seriously ill in hospital, and it is right that he is by her side at this time. I am sure the whole House will wish her a speedy recovery. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.]
On behalf of the Committee, let me say that our debates in the Chamber are now full until 9 May, provided we are allocated the time by the Leader of the House. Equally, we are full in Westminster Hall until 2 May—obviously, we will have control of that time. So all those who wish to get applications in before the summer recess should do so quickly, as the Committee has been working overtime to process these applications.
The shocking rise in antisemitism and anti-Muslim hatred has been well publicised, but what has not been is the anti-Hindu hatred occurring on our campuses and across our country. I have the honour of chairing the all-party group on British Hindus and it has recently published a report on that hatred, on which action is clearly required all round. So will my right hon. Friend allow time in the Chamber for a debate on hatred of British Hindus and enable us to celebrate the contribution they make to this country? Given that it is Holi on Tuesday, will she also join me in wishing all Hindus “Holi hai!”?
Penny Mordaunt
First, may I, on behalf of all of us in this place, send our good wishes to the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) and his family at this time? I thank my hon. Friend for stepping in for him and assisting Members with an advert for future business from the Backbench Business Committee.
On the all-party group’s report on anti-Hindu hatred, I will make sure that the relevant Secretary of State has heard what my hon. Friend has said today. I know that he has been campaigning on this matter for some time and that he will have listened to what the Minister for Equalities said about it at Women and Equalities questions yesterday.
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
May I associate myself with the remarks about the new Welsh First Minister and pass on my best wishes to former First Minister Mark Drakeford?
Of course, we are grateful to the Leader of the House for making time in her hectic schedule to pop along to the House of Commons today; all that leadership plotting and scheming does not just happen by itself—she has been a busy bee. We can only pray that we are nearing the season finale of this endless Tory soap opera, but her leadership campaign has not stopped her coming here today so that she can ignore our questions in person. Every Thursday, she displays some essential qualities to be the next Tory Prime Minister. For a start, she regards questions as a bit of a nuisance, something to be avoided at all costs. They get in the way of her important work recording all those YouTube videos about Willy Wonka, escaped monkeys or whatever. If Members do not take my word for it, they can check Hansard.
The Leader of the House was right to say last week that I had not sent her through details of my many unanswered questions—there are just so many to compile. However, I am happy to offer a few reminders now. We have had no answer on whether Baroness Michelle Mone is a paid-up member of the Tory party, as she herself claims; we have had no answer on the startling increase in child poverty in England—the Leader of the House is far too busy to deal with those distractions; and we still have no idea how much taxpayers’ money was wasted on her Government’s initial “State of the Union” report to the UK Cabinet, which was written at the height of the pandemic and was still kept firmly under wraps until we got some insights at the covid inquiry. The report is still for strictly for Tory eyes only; even now, Scots are not allowed to know the costs or decisions taken to stifle our democracy.
But with the revelation that 80% of young Scots said that they want independence, it is no surprise that the Cabinet panicked and swung into fervent Union-Jackery action. So will the Leader of the House take a moment from her busy campaign diary to answer these questions— I make no apology for asking them again: how much taxpayers’ money was spent on that “State of the Union” paper? What was the strategy the Cabinet was asked to endorse? And when can we see the paper in full? Perhaps we could have a statement from the relevant Minister, if she does not have those answers to hand.
Penny Mordaunt
Before I get to the specifics of what she raises, I have noticed a consistent hostility and unpleasantness in the hon. Lady’s questions to me. This has been going on for some time—weeks, in fact. I am getting the impression that the hon. Lady does not like me, perhaps even hates me; her followers on social media certainly do. There are patronising undertones in what she says. I believe she is saying that I am deficient in my abilities to answer her questions, perhaps because I am a woman. I feel very intimidated, upset and deeply, deeply hurt. As well as noting her questions, I have been sitting on the Front Bench filling in a hate-related report form, which my officials have kindly placed in my folder. I will have one ready for every single SNP colleague who gets to their feet. If I sent the form to the Scottish police they would be obliged to investigate, increasing the growing number of reasons why they are struggling to attend burglaries. I sincerely hope that the SNP’s new hate crime laws do not have a chilling effect on our exchanges.
I am not sure the hon. Lady has understood the purpose of business questions. The questions that she has asked should be directed to Departments, such as the Cabinet Office and the Department for Work and Pensions. She can ask these questions of me and I can write to those Departments for her, but she could also cut out the middleman and write to the Departments herself. I look forward to receiving her list of questions— I think it is now two months overdue. I will farm them out to the relevant Government Departments and ask them to respond to the hon. Lady.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
I wish to raise two brief things. First, the Leader of the House will soon see the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s report on women’s state pension age and its findings on “injustice” and associated issues. The report is about the WASPI women—Women Against State Pension Inequality. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) who campaigned with me on these issues and saw various Secretaries of State. Will the Leader of the House say how the Government intend the House to respond to the reference to Parliament considering the recommended remedy? It is not a massive remedy, but it is an important one.
Secondly, the Leader of the House may have heard me question the Prime Minister yesterday about planning and building over prime agricultural fields. Yesterday afternoon, Arun District Council planning committee considered an application. All the members of the committee looked as though they were going to turn it down, until the planning officer said the costs of an appeal by the developer were more than the Council could afford. All the members of the committee, except for the Conservatives and one Liberal, then voted to leave it to the council planning officers to make the decision.
Can we have a debate on intimidation on costs by developers that make district and borough councils feel they have to approve something or allow something to go through that should be opposed? Will the Leader of the House join me in recommending the council calls in the proposal and, if it does not, the Secretary of State does?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank the Father of the House for his questions. I know the Department for Work and Pensions will want to consider today’s announcement about WASPI women. This is a concern among Members across the House, and I am sure the Minister will want to update the House at the earliest opportunity. They will want time to consider what has been said today, but I hope that an update will be given to colleagues before recess.
On planning, the Father of the House raises a worrying concern. I am sure the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities will be concerned to hear that people are not shouldering the responsibilities to which they were elected. I will ensure he has heard what my hon. Friend has said.
Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)
This week, I was astonished and appalled to find that Moat housing association, in my constituency, is increasing rent and maintenance service charges in affordable accommodation to an exorbitant amount. Something needs to be done about that, because the increase to rent is over 9% and the increase to the maintenance service charge is a whopping 50%. Those rises are due to start in April, so there is a level of urgency. Will the Leader of the House ensure that the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities looks into this case, so that residents do not fall into in-work poverty and they are not priced out of the area? The housing association must deal with them efficiently and fairly, and keep to the formula initially given to residents to calculate such increases.
Penny Mordaunt
I am sorry to hear about that situation in the hon. Lady’s constituency and will certainly ensure that the Secretary of State hears what she has said today. I hope also that the organisation she refers to has heard her words and can come to some accommodation with its residents.
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
May we have a debate on improving access to GP appointments? In the north-central London area, the number of appointments in GP practices per month is now 680,000—50,000 up on last year—which is a huge improvement, but a debate would give us an opportunity to discuss how Pharmacy First can enable people to get treatment from their pharmacist, freeing up more GP appointments for patients with more complex conditions.
Penny Mordaunt
I thank my right hon. Friend for raising this matter. General practices are now delivering 20% more appointments than they were pre-pandemic, and more than 33 million appointments were carried out in January of this year alone. We have also brought in, as she rightly points out, Pharmacy First. I think that this has been well received in our communities, but of course there is always more we can do to publicise these new services, which are available to everyone in our community. The next Health and Social Care questions are not until after Easter, so I will ensure that the Department has heard what she has said.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Is the Leader of the House aware that the biggest killer of children and young people worldwide is being involved in a crash on a road? Can we have an early debate to talk about how, globally, we do something vigorously to cut this back? I have the privilege of being the chair of the Independent Council for Road Safety International. Car accidents kill so many children worldwide. They are all avoidable deaths. Can we have a debate that focuses on this?
Penny Mordaunt
I did know that, because I have heard the hon. Gentleman campaign on the issue many times, and I thank him for it. As well as improvements that we can make in the UK, the UK plays a huge role in helping other nations get better at road safety, and I thank him for highlighting that fact today. He knows how to apply for a debate.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
Following the introduction of the very welcome Football Governance Bill, may we have a debate in Government time on the future of rugby union and how we ensure that professional rugby in England is effectively regulated and supported? Clubs such as Worcester Warriors deserve their chance to come back into professional rugby, but with no certainty about the shape of next year’s championship and a clash between the law of administration and the Rugby Football Union’s definition of rugby creditors, it is hard for investors to plan with any certainty. A century on from when rugby was invented in the west midlands, is it not a matter of concern that there might be no top- flight professional club in the west midlands area?
Penny Mordaunt
My hon. Friend raises a very important matter. I am glad that he welcomes the Football Governance Bill. He will also know that the Government appointed independent advisers last year to work on the future stability of rugby union. We will continue to work with the rugby authorities, including the Rugby Football Union, premiership rugby and Sport England, to support rugby in all its forms. I shall ensure that the Secretary of State has heard his particular concerns in this regard, and he knows how to apply for a debate.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
The UK Government recently awarded councils in England emergency funding of £700 million, much of which was in response to the crisis facing social care. The Scottish Government received consequential funding on top of the normal block grant as a result. However, Scottish councils are still facing budget issues in this area. Yesterday, my own council in Edinburgh had to agree to close two care homes, reduce packages and cut some funding by 10%. May we have a statement from the Treasury, or perhaps the Scotland Office, on how it could be made easier for Scottish councils to apply directly for this emergency funding—[Interruption.]
Christine Jardine
Perhaps I should borrow one of the Leader of the House’s hate forms.
As I was saying, may we have a statement on how Scottish councils can apply directly when this fund is made available, rather than continue to wait for the Scottish Government to act?
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Lady makes several very good points. The devolved Administrations continue to receive about 20% more funding per head than the UK Government spend on the same things in England, and there are many examples of the Scottish Government hanging on to those funds and not passing them on to councils or passing relief on to businesses, for example, which is very disappointing. She makes an interesting suggestion, and I will ensure that both the Cabinet Office and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities have heard her words.
Sir Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)
Just five years ago, the gates of Appledore shipyard closed. It was a picture of dereliction; its workforce dispersed to the four winds. But now it has experienced a glorious revival. It has several hundred employees and 45 apprentices, having been taken over by Harland & Wolff. A similar picture of prosperity and thriving is taking place in Belfast today. May we have a debate on the revival of English shipbuilding and shipbuilding in Northern Ireland, which has been presided over by this Government’s maritime shipbuilding strategy?
Penny Mordaunt
I could tell by the sounds of approval running across the whole House that were my right hon. and learned Friend to apply for a debate, it would be very well attended. This is something that I am very passionate about, and I am pleased to have worked with Appledore, and Harland & Wolff in Northern Ireland, and every shipyard around the UK, including the Scottish maritime cluster, to ensure that we can build some new ships and smooth out the fallow periods in those shipyards. This is an excellent topic for a debate, and I encourage him to apply for one.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
Could the Leader of the House ask one of her ministerial friends to come to the House before recess to give us a report on the civil service pay negotiations? A recent independent report by Queen Mary University found that civil service pay had fallen by 1.5% every year since 2011. As the permanent secretary to the Cabinet Office admitted before the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, the Government are now becoming a minimum wage employer. That has resulted in the Public and Commercial Services Union balloting after Easter for industrial action. The union is simply asking for a pay award to match inflation and some restoration on lost pay. If we could have a ministerial statement we might be able to avert this decline in industrial relations within the civil service.
Penny Mordaunt
I will certainly ensure that the Cabinet Office has heard what the right hon. Gentleman has said, although I do not think it was correct. In Departments that I have been in, where we have encountered low pay, or pay that is not above the national living wage, we have increased it—most notably, in my case, ensuring that no member of our armed forces or civilian who works in defence is earning less than that.
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)
Following a fire in a council-owned property last summer, Barnet Council commissioned an independent investigation to assess whether there were any other similar properties in the borough with the same fire defects. The investigation has identified 153 council-owned properties, seven leasehold properties, and 426 freehold properties that had been sold by the council under right to buy. They are all affected by the same conditions, and 459 of them are in my constituency in the ward of Burnt Oak. They now constitute a category 1 hazard as defined by the Housing Act 2004, and the works to redress the issues are expected to cost £23,000 per house. Can a Minister come to the Dispatch Box and advise the House on what assistance the Government will provide, particularly to leaseholders who purchased their properties when those buildings were compliant with building regulations but now find themselves in an awkward and difficult financial situation?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank my hon. Friend for all the work that he is doing on behalf of his constituents on this matter. The Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities is aware of the action that Barnet Council is taking, and continues to engage closely with it on the next steps following the fire that he refers to. DLUHC officials are seeking further information from Barnet Council regarding the nature of the risks that have been identified to understand whether its response is proportionate to the risks presented in low-rise stock. The Building Safety Regulator is also aware, keeping the situation under review and ensuring that what is being done is in line with its statutory responsibilities. He will know that unsafe cladding has been a priority for the Government, and we are investing £5.1 billion to fund the cost of remedying it, which is five times what the Opposition promised in their fire safety package at the last election.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)
Queer theory extremism is having a pernicious impact on equality, rights, education, health and criminal justice. On April fools’ day, the Scottish Government’s illiberal hate crime legislation will come into effect, exerting a chilling effect on political discourse and severely limiting fundamental freedoms in a way that is hardly imaginable. Given that an incoming Labour Administration is likely to replicate the dangerous policies being pursued by the SNP in Scotland and by Labour in Wales, will the Leader of the House bring forward an open debate on the matter?
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Gentleman will have heard my earlier comments. He makes a good point. Of course, we have always updated legislation to ensure that particular groups are protected and, where real harm is done to individuals, action can be taken. However, we must also ensure that free speech is protected. That is vital for a functioning society, it is vital for us to make progress as a society, and it is vital for humanity. This is critical stuff, and I thank him for raising it.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
The Leader of the House should know that there has been a shocking increase in crime in Greater London. In my own borough of Havering there was recently a stabbing in the Brewery shopping centre. Local people are afraid to go into the town centre, particularly in the evenings. Under Mayor Khan, we have seen a massive increase in crime. We do not get the police cover that we need. Being on the outskirts of Greater London, and traditionally a part of Essex, we are treated very differently. Will she bring forward a debate in Government time to discuss crime across Greater London, particularly in areas such as Romford and Havering, which are being fleeced? We are paying for police cover that we are not getting.
Penny Mordaunt
My hon. Friend raises an important matter. Across the country as a whole, the police have done an amazing job on roughly the same resource—if we strip out online fraud, they have halved crime, which is a huge achievement. However, there are parts of the country where that is not happening. He mentions London, but the west midlands is another such area. I know that west midlands Mayor Andy Street is very concerned about this matter. Every time we hear about the Met, the Mayor of London is nowhere to be seen. The budget has been mismanaged—there is an enormous black hole in it—and police officers in London do not feel that they are supported in doing their difficult job. The rise in violent crime in particular—knife and other crime—is shocking. There is an imminent solution so that Londoners can get a better deal: vote the current London Mayor out of office.
Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)
Service charges are an industrial-scale scandal, lumbering homeowners with unaffordable bills. Constituents in Battersea have raised concerns about unregulated, uncapped and exponential service charge increases, and they have also been hit by the Tory mortgage bombshell. In 14 years, the Government have failed to take action to tackle this unregulated system. Will they make a statement on the service charge scandal, and what action will they finally take?
Penny Mordaunt
I hope that the hon. Lady has raised that matter with the relevant Department. The next DLUHC questions will be on 22 April. I understand from the opening remarks of her question that it relates to particular accommodation suppliers rather than to utility companies and other standing charges, so I encourage her to raise any particular issues with those organisations.
Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend find time for a debate to allow Shropshire MPs to point out that, contrary to disingenuous Lib Dem leaflets, it is the Conservative Government who are taking action to clean up our rivers, to help consumers buy British produce from our farmers, and to bring down the cost of living by supporting the vulnerable, raising the state pension next month by double the current rate of inflation and cutting taxes for those in work?
Penny Mordaunt
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. In addition to all the progress that has been made on increasing monitoring of storm overflows—which was just 7% when we came to office, and is now 100%—a huge amount of infrastructure work is being done across the country to ensure that we can reduce those storm overflows when they happen, and that sewage is not released into our seas or waterways. On 12 March, Water UK published its storm overflow action plan dash- board for all overflows in England. I encourage people to go online and look at that: they can see the work that has been done, as well as future work, and the date by which it has been done. Massive progress has been made.
I agree with the other points that my right hon. Friend has made. We are supporting farmers across the whole of the UK, particularly the Conservatives in Wales, who are fighting Labour’s plans to make farmers’ lives harder. I thank my right hon. Friend for all he is doing on all fronts; he will know how to secure a debate on all those issues if he so wishes.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
May I come back to the question of the ombudsman’s report on WASPI women? I understand what the Leader of the House has said about the Secretary of State’s wanting time to read the report, but he must have known for some time that it was coming, and millions of women have been waiting to hear the Government’s response. The ombudsman itself has said that
“DWP has…failed to offer any apology or explanation for its failings”.
That is why we need the Secretary of State to come before the House. The ombudsman has indicated that it has taken the extraordinary step of bringing the report to Parliament’s attention because it realises its importance and urgency, so will the Leader of the House suggest to the Secretary of State that it might be a good idea for him to come to the Chamber tomorrow and give a statement about what he intends to do about the report?
Penny Mordaunt
I hope I gave the impression in my earlier answer that I think the Minister will want to come to the Dispatch Box—this is an important matter. I hope we will be able to do that before recess. The House will not be as well attended tomorrow as it might be next week. I hope that is satisfactory for hon. Members, and I will ensure that the Minister has heard what the hon. Gentleman has said.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Yet again, we have a bank closure in my constituency: Lloyds Bank is closing in the centre of Cleethorpes. We have had some success in Barton-upon-Humber, where we have established a banking hub, but there is always a gap between the initial closure and alternative facilities being provided. Can the Leader of the House find time for a statement or a debate on how to ensure face-to-face contact between customer and provider, not only in banking but in public services?
Penny Mordaunt
First, I congratulate my hon. Friend—who has raised this matter many times—on what he has done to secure that banking hub and ensure his constituents have access to those services. I would hope that the banking community in his area would ensure that there is no gap, and that his residents and business customers can have face-to-face access to the banking support they need. My office stands ready to assist him in trying to make that happen.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
Lots of us, myself included, have constituents who are worried sick about their friends or family who are caught up in the conflict in Gaza. Can a Minister come to the House urgently for a debate or statement on the need for a more widely drawn family reunion or humanitarian visa process for people who are fleeing the violence in Israel and Gaza?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I hope he is in touch with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office’s consular services, which are working very hard with other Government Departments to ensure that anyone who needs assistance has it. If the hon. Gentleman has any difficulty in accessing those services, my office will assist.
Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)
I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting my debate on hospices, scheduled for 15 April.
For many years, Darlington suffered from under-investment, but the last four years have seen £23.3 million delivered from the towns fund, £139 million invested in our train station, £35 million invested in our rail heritage quarter, £14 million invested in a vaccine library and £14 million to develop a hydrogen engine, while the Chancellor announced a further £20 million for Darlington under the long-term plan for towns. To add to that, the Darlington economic campus has delivered 750 jobs and is contributing over £80 million per year to our local economy.
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is Conservatives, such as me and Ben Houchen, who are delivering for the Tees Valley? Does she share my concern about last week’s report on projects being delayed, and my suspicion that Labour councillors are putting the brakes on projects? Can we have a debate on the massive success that Tees Valley Tories have delivered for Teesside?
Penny Mordaunt
First, I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate on hospices, which I am sure will be extremely well attended.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the progress that has been made. I congratulate him on securing so much for his local area, and he is right. I think the employment rate in Teesside is 3% higher than in comparable areas, which is a massive achievement. I do hope that his Labour council will get on with these levelling-up projects. I understand that the planning process is bogged down, and they have not been able to get planning under way yet, which is very disappointing for his constituents. I would urge him to carry on, and ensure that these projects, for which he has secured funding, come to fruition.
Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
World Parkinson’s Day is on 11 April, and this year’s theme—there is not one face of Parkinson’s—reflects the fact that there are 40 symptoms for this disease and every Parkinson’s journey is different. With a postcode lottery for access to the right healthcare and insufficient targeted financial support for people with the condition, will the Leader of the House make time for a debate on how the Government can best support each unique Parkinson’s journey?
Penny Mordaunt
On behalf of the whole House, I thank the hon. Lady for raising awareness of that upcoming event. I ask all hon. Members to raise awareness not only of the symptoms of the condition but of the support available, so that people have good care and money goes into research. I hope all hon. Members will take part. The hon. Lady knows how to secure a debate on the issue, and I will ensure that the Secretary of State hears of her interest.
Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con)
May we have a debate in Government time about a company called Decharge, whose rural site at Greenway, Uplowman, will be getting 330,000 cubic metres of rubbish, rubble and so on? What annoys people most is that the local council, run by the Liberal Democrats, will not scrutinise this properly. They have just stuck their heads in the sand like ostriches. The chairman of the scrutiny committee should spend less time working under the leader and a little more time not shedding crocodile tears but actually doing some work. We in this House all know what a privilege it is to represent people—it is a privilege we all hold dear—but it is up to local councils to stand up for local people when lorries are going to be thundering down rural lanes and disrupting the way of life of rural people. Enough is enough: let us have a debate to sort this out.
Penny Mordaunt
My hon. Friend is extremely consistent in his criticism of his local authority. I am sorry to hear about the situation, and I shall certainly ensure that the Secretary of State for Levelling Up has heard his concerns. I know my hon. Friend is a doughty campaigner, and if anyone can ensure that the impact of the proposal is alleviated for residents, it is he.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
Following the catastrophic kamikaze Budget of 16 months ago, the public are extremely concerned about the promise trailed by the Government about cuts to national insurance, with a £46 billion implication. Will the Leader of the House either allow a debate or tell us now whether that will be done by increasing income tax, by further cuts to our public services or by increasing Government debt?
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Gentleman will know that was not a policy announcement in the Budget. The Budget was costed, it is independently audited and there is a clear scorecard of which the House will be aware. In stark contrast, Labour has kept a policy to spend an additional £28 billion without keeping the pledge of having that £28 billion, which is illogical. I am sure an official from the Treasury can sit down with the hon. Gentleman and talk him through all this.
Sir Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)
All loss of life in conflict in Israel, Gaza or elsewhere is a tragedy. It is very important that the UK Government are working with the right figures, for aid purposes and many other reasons. On that point, has my right hon. Friend seen that a leading academic statistician from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania has calculated that the Hamas casualty figures are statistically impossible and obviously fraudulent? That should not be a surprise, coming from a terrorist organisation, but Government and Opposition Front Benchers seem to be relying on them. Can we have a debate in those circumstances on the accuracy of statistics used by His Majesty’s Government?
Penny Mordaunt
My right hon. and learned Friend raises an important point. He should be reassured that those figures from the Ministry of Health in Gaza, which is run by Hamas, are only one data point that we use to assess the scale of the conflict and its implications for civilians. We need to ensure that we have the most accurate data, and we are collecting that from satellite imagery of building damage, information from our humanitarian partners on the ground and robust data on living conditions. Those are all fed into our assessment. It is a tragedy that is unfolding, and that is why we want to see a pause in fighting to get that aid in and to get hostages out.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Ind)
China is increasing its carbon dioxide emissions by more than the UK’s total emissions every year of this decade. China, Russia, India and others are opening new coal-fired power stations on an almost daily basis. Do they know something we do not? Independent scientists have stated that higher carbon dioxide levels would be beneficial for life on the planet through increased plant growth, so can we have a debate in Government time on the cost-benefit of net zero before trillions of pounds of taxpayers’ money are wasted, which will make the HS2 fiasco look like a warm-up act?
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Gentleman will know how to secure a debate. He has just secured a debate on excess deaths, and if he follows the same procedure, I am sure he will have good luck in securing another debate.
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
In Harrogate and Knaresborough, we have had more than 12,000 apprenticeship starts since 2010, and this week’s announcement of changes to apprenticeship policy was positive and will help those numbers grow. What I liked particularly was that it will make it easier for SMEs to offer apprenticeships. The main message I hear from businesses is that it is challenging to fill vacancies and bring in new talent. Can we have a debate about SMEs, apprenticeships and skills policy to give them the boost they need to fill the vacancies they are creating?
Penny Mordaunt
My hon. Friend will know that on Monday, the Prime Minister set out a package of reforms to support businesses, including £60 million of new investment to enable more apprenticeships to be created. We are also slashing unnecessary regulatory burdens through our Brexit freedoms programme and saving about £150 million a year for thousands of small businesses. I thank my hon. Friend for all the work he is doing in his constituency to ensure that people are benefiting from these initiatives.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
The First Reading of the Football Governance Bill last week was welcome, but when will we see Second Reading? There was no mention of it in today’s business statement. We want to get the Bill through in time before the general election so that it becomes law, as it has widespread support.
One thing that was not mentioned at all was the Renters (Reform) Bill. Where has that got to? All we have read about are discussions, debates and arguments between Ministers and Tory Back Benchers over changes that might be made to the Bill. In the meantime, hundreds of people are being evicted through section 21 notices, and families and children are being made homeless. When will the Government bring back this important legislation, which has widespread cross-party support?
Penny Mordaunt
May I start by thanking the hon. Gentleman, on behalf of us all, for all the work that he has done across the House on the Football Governance Bill, and all the stakeholder engagement that he has overseen? I have attended many of those meetings, and I know that colleagues are grateful for his efforts. These are important community assets as well as businesses. When Portsmouth faced closure, I could not say to my constituents, “Don’t worry: Southampton is just down the road; you can watch your football there.” It would not have worked. I know he is eager for the Renters (Reform) Bill to return, and I am glad that he welcomes that. He knows I will say that further business will be announced in the usual way, but I will ensure that officials in that Department have heard what he said.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
I bring good news from Kettering, where Sainsbury’s supermarket has restored free parking during the evenings in its town centre car park. It had planned to introduce charges for out-of-hours parking, but it has listened to local opinion and representations from me, Kettering Civic Society and others, and has amended its plans. That is great news for those in the close vicinity, such as the Salvation Army, the Sikh temple, popular local restaurants, and Kettering Arts Centre, which is based in St Andrew’s church. May we have a statement from the Leader of the House both praising Sainsbury’s for its social responsibility, and encouraging people to visit Kettering town centre?
Penny Mordaunt
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his successful campaign. In addition to his constituency being the most dog-friendly place in the UK, as we learned last week, people can now park there for free. I join him in praising Sainsbury’s, and everyone locally who has worked to ensure that, and to ensure that Kettering town centre remains vibrant and open to visitors.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
If U Care Share is an amazing suicide prevention and postvention charity that supports my constituents in Blaydon and people across the north-east. Sadly, it was not successful in its bid for £10 million in suicide prevention funding, and some of its work is having to come to an end. As the north-east has the highest rate of suicide, its work is vital. My right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and I will be approaching the Minister about this, but may we have a debate in Government time on the impact of short-term funding decisions on charities working on this vital issue?
Penny Mordaunt
I am glad that the hon. Lady will take this matter up with the Minister. Where people or organisations have not been able to secure funding from a particular scheme, the Department will work with organisations, or the local authority, to improve the bid, or ensure that the organisation can work with others in the area. Such services are critical, and they also need to be sustainable. I shall ensure that the Department of Health and Social Care has heard what the hon. Lady said.
Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)
My constituent Nadeem Anjarwalla, a UK citizen, has been detained in Nigeria since 26 February, with no charges formally brought. His health is suffering, and obstacles have prevented his lawyers and his family from ensuring that he receives proper care. He has also just missed his son’s first birthday. As the safety and security of British nationals is a top priority for the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, will my right hon. Friend please allow a debate in Government time on how we can further enhance FCDO’s support for our citizens abroad?
Penny Mordaunt
I know my hon. Friend is working hard for this gentleman, and she is in close contact with the FCDO. As she knows, officials are in contact with his family and legal representatives, and the UK’s high commissioner to Nigeria has raised the case with Nigerian authorities. We had a Westminster Hall debate on 5 September last year about British nationals who are detained overseas, and it was well attended. My hon. Friend knows how to apply for a debate, and if she did, I think it would be similarly well attended. As the next questions to the Foreign Office are not until 20 April, I shall ensure that the Foreign Secretary has heard what she has said.
Patricia Gibson
The ombudsman’s report on raising the state pension age has now been published. A key finding is that there has been maladministration by the Department for Work and Pensions, and that the UK Government should do the right thing, apologise, and come up with a mechanism for paying compensation to the women affected. Will the Leader of the House make a statement setting out her support for all in the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign, and for a compensation scheme that reflects the financial loss and distress suffered by those in Ayrshire WASPI and Cunninghame WASPI, and all WASPI women across the UK?
Penny Mordaunt
Like many hon. Members from across the House, I have cases of this kind in my constituency, and have been working to support the individuals involved. I reiterate the Government’s position, which is that I am sure the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions will want to update the House at the earliest occasion. He will clearly have to read the report and reflect on it, but I know that he is keen to do so swiftly.
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)
This week, I had the privilege of meeting the inspirational Hannah Gardner, who has incurable secondary breast cancer at the age of just 37. Recently, Hannah and thousands of other women received the devastating news that the life-extending drug Enhertu, described by oncologists as a game-changer, has been rejected by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence for use by the NHS in England, despite being approved in Scotland and 45 other countries worldwide. She brought a campaign to Parliament, because it is the only realistic treatment available for her, and time is not on her side. Can we have an urgent debate on getting all parties, including the drug companies, NICE and NHS England, back to the table, and urgently approving Enhertu, so that Hannah can at least realise her modest wish of seeing her three-year-old daughter Lilah attend her new school?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank my hon. Friend for all his campaigning in this area, and for all his work with a number of all-party parliamentary groups. I also thank him for arranging for me to meet Hannah when she visited Parliament. She is an inspirational woman, and the fact that she is campaigning so hard, not just for herself but for other people, is testament to that. I also thank the Breast Cancer Now team, who also visited me and are doing tremendous work in campaigning to ensure that not just Enhertu but other life-extending drugs can be approved.
I am sure that the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care will have heard about the campaign and will want to set up meetings to discuss it. I think that about 1,000 women a year in England could benefit from the drug, and given that it is widely available and deemed to be clinically and cost-effective elsewhere, I hope that NICE will reflect on that, and that a patient access scheme might be established. I will ensure that the Secretary of State has heard what my hon. Friend said.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
In contrast to what the Leader of the House said to my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western), at Treasury questions on Tuesday, the Chancellor did not deny that he plans to abolish national insurance, an unfunded commitment costing £46 billion. He also did not deny that he might pay for it by increasing taxes on pensioners. As it is not the Leader of the House but the Chancellor who decides economic policy, will she arrange for the Chancellor to make a statement to the House confirming how he intends to fill the £46 billion black hole in the Government’s finances, and saying whether that will be through tax rises for pensioners, cuts to the national health service, increases in debt and borrowing, or something else?
Penny Mordaunt
I suspect that the event that the hon. Gentleman is recalling was a dream, perhaps after eating a large amount of cheese. I do not think the Chancellor would have said that. I understand that the Labour party is trying to establish this line, but I am afraid that it is not working, because the British public understand these things; they understand national insurance contributions, and Labour clearly does not.
Sir Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)
Can we have a debate about the application of the Local Government Act 1972? Rob Huntingdon, the chief executive of Rossendale Borough Council, is seeking to use it to prevent the release of a copy of a financial impact report on the empty homes scandal presented to councillors in the council chamber on 9 August 2022, as well as seeking to prevent the release of copies of documents discussed at a closed session of the council under item D1 on 18 August 2022. That is important, because his refusal to release those documents, when added to the fact that legal action has been threatened against councillors who reveal what is in them—a gagging order by any other name—has lost the taxpayers of Rossendale and Darwen £12 million. The 1972 Act, if applicable in this case, was not put in place to stop local authorities, their officers and Labour councillors being embarrassed by their own incompetence.
Penny Mordaunt
My right hon. Friend makes his point very well. These individuals are accountable to their residents, and those facts should be exposed. I think he is right in his understanding of the 1972 Act and local authorities’ responsibilities under it, but I will make sure that officials at the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities write to him to confirm that. I suggest that his local authority and the councillors in question reflect on the stance they are taking, and consider the rights of the people who are paying their salaries and allowances.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
My constituents at Lark Hill rely on the retirement village’s ATM to access cash. While I am delighted that proposals for its removal have been withdrawn, residents will now face a fee. Does the right hon. Lady agree that everyone, especially older and disabled people, should be able to obtain cash safely and securely, and free of charge, in places that they can reach independently? Can we have a debate about Link and community access to cash?
Penny Mordaunt
I congratulate the hon. Lady on the success of her campaign. There is a very clear responsibility to ensure that people have free access to cash. Many people rely on it, and it is critical for certain community groups. I will ensure that the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has heard her concerns, and that officials contact her office with advice about the courses of action open to her to insist that ATMs are reasonably dispersed across her constituency.
Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con)
Crime and antisocial behaviour are a big concern across Carshalton and Wallington, particularly violent crime, burglaries and shoplifting. More police officers are on the street and crime is falling across the UK, but under Sadiq Khan’s watch in London, we have seen crime go up, the Met miss its recruitment targets by nearly 1,000 additional officers, and a complete failure to get to grips with major issues plaguing our local communities. Could we have a debate in Government time about how we can better hold the Mayor of London to account, as he seems to not care about Carshalton and Wallington and the crime levels that it faces?
Penny Mordaunt
My hon. Friend is not the first hon. Member to raise concerns about the Mayor of London’s performance on crime and, most disturbingly, increasing violent crime. My hon. Friend asks how we can hold the Mayor to account, and whether we should debate that. I would suggest another course of action: vote him out of office.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
The Leader of the House could have announced today that next week, the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill, the Football Governance Bill or the Renters (Reform) Bill would be before the House, but she did not. We are told that senior Government figures have said that the reason why Conservative MPs are being sent home on a one-line Whip until the middle of April is to placate them and ease tension. This Government have simply ceased to function. Their way of stopping their most important policy is to send Tory MPs home, so that they do not have to vote for it. It is beyond a joke. Can we have a debate most urgently about when we will have the general election that this country needs to get this useless Government out of office?
Penny Mordaunt
I do not think the hon. Gentleman could have heard my business statement, and he may not be aware that the Football Governance Bill has been brought forward. I remind the Opposition, who make allegations about Conservative Members phoning it in, that we want our legislation to go through. If business is collapsing, it is because the Opposition are not doing engaging in business; they have not even managed to get speakers for their own Opposition day debates. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman reflects on that.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
May we have a debate in Government time about the obligations on local planning authorities to plan strategically for the infrastructure required to service their growth aspirations? That is particularly important to me and my constituents in Milton Keynes North since the Labour-led council announced plans for 63,000 new homes across Milton Keynes. We do not have targets in the way that we used to, but back when we did, Milton Keynes City Council was building 3,000 houses against a target of just over 1,700. It is not the Government who are making the council do that, despite what it says. Our infrastructure will suffer. We need a plan for infrastructure before expansion, in particular for doctors’ surgeries. The Cobbs Garden expansion project that I supported has mysteriously been binned by the integrated care board. We need that plan in place before we have any growth.
Penny Mordaunt
I thank my hon. Friend for all his work to ensure that his local residents have the services that they need and that, where there is development, those needs are assessed. I know that he has been campaigning for a new GP surgery together with Conservative colleagues. He will know that the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 introduced new powers to create an infrastructure levy, which aims to generate more funding for infrastructure projects. Local planning authorities will be required to prepare infrastructure delivery strategies as they bring forward development. As the next Levelling Up questions are not until after Easter on 22 April, I will make sure that the Department has heard his concerns about his constituency, and ask that officials get in touch to give him advice about what he can do with the ICB.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
The Leader of the House knows that this morning, the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman did not just publicise its report but laid it before Parliament, which is very rare. It said:
“Given the scale of the impact of DWP’s maladministration, and the urgent need for a remedy, we are taking the rare but necessary step of asking Parliament to intervene.”
I am very disappointed that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is not here today to provide a statement, so will the Leader of the House confirm when that will happen? Secondly and more importantly, when will this Parliament be able to debate and amend a motion on this matter?
Penny Mordaunt
Several Members have raised the exact same point this morning. It is reasonable that the Secretary of State reflects on today’s announcement, but I am sure that he will want to update the House before recess.
Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)
BT Openreach is installing telegraph poles in areas of Southport where residents oppose them. There has been no extensive consultation, and its actions have resulted in a huge waste of police time. It has paid very little attention to the advice given last week, and there are huge health and safety concerns. May we have a debate so that colleagues and I can raise these issues in the House, because the telegraph poles are unwanted and are being installed unsafely?
Penny Mordaunt
I hear my hon. Friend’s request for a debate, but I understand that his actions have already had an impact on Openreach. The Minister responsible raised my hon. Friend’s concerns with the chief executive of Openreach yesterday, who will investigate. I understand that he will also attend a roundtable with the Minister and other MPs on Monday to discuss this ongoing topic. I stand ready to assist my hon. Friend in whatever way I can to get this resolved, but he is doing everything he can and has already secured many things that will get this resolved.
Keir Mather (Selby and Ainsty) (Lab)
It is getting on for two months since the debate on mining communities was set to take place on 1 February, when it was displaced by the reforming of the Northern Ireland Executive. My constituent Mr Anthony Rock is being treated appalling by the DWP regarding compensation for industrial illness, despite the best efforts of the National Union of Mineworkers. His health is getting worse, and it is not about the money but about dignity for Mr Rock, and recognition of his years of service in the British coal industry. The Minister and other coalfield MPs need to hear this story, so can the Leader of the House advise me when we will find time for this crucial debate?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that matter. He will know, as I have stated it before, that while reorganising the scheduling of such debates is a matter for the Backbench Business Committee, we will be giving additional time to ensure that it happens. I was particularly keen to mention that specific debate, as I know Members from across the House would be very interested in taking part. I will also ensure that we flag his concerns with regard to his constituent with the Department for Work and Pensions, as those departmental questions have just happened.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
Finally, and thanking him for his patience, I call Peter Aldous.
Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will conclude on the point that, I think, four other Members have made, including the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), with whom I co-chair the all-party parliamentary group on state pension inequality for women. We have had the ombudsman’s report this morning. It makes grim reading for the DWP in relation to its maladministration over many years. Its findings on recommendations for compensation may disappoint many women, but the main issue coming out of the report is the need to lay the report before Parliament due to the low confidence that the ombudsman has in the Government coming up with a quick solution.
I thank my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for her assurance that a DWP Minister will make a statement as soon as possible. May I urge her to convey to the Department the need to go much, much further much more quickly to put in place a mechanism, working with Parliament, to ensure that this injustice, which has gone on for many years, is remedied as quickly as possible?
Penny Mordaunt
I can certainly give my hon. Friend the assurance that I will raise this matter with the Department. Indeed, I will be doing so on behalf of all Members who have spoken about it this morning. I thank him for all the work he has done with the all-party parliamentary group and on this issue specifically. As I said in my previous answers, I am sure the Secretary of State will want to update the House at the earliest occasion.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
Order. I thank the Leader of the House and the shadow Leader of the House for their presence throughout what has been a very lengthy session.
Point of Order
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. One of the test cases reviewed in the report, which was just mentioned in the last question, is my constituent who has fought for a decade for the Department for Work and Pensions to right these wrongs. She felt a huge sense of responsibility in acting on behalf of the millions of WASPI women. In my office, we have been with her every step of the way.
The DWP has treated my constituent and the WASPI women with contempt, obfuscation and delay. Shamefully, it is now failing to acknowledge these findings, accept the ombudsman’s report and apologise for the life-changing impact its maladministration has had on these women. Mr Deputy Speaker, have you or the Speaker’s Office had confirmation from the Government on the precise timing of a statement on the report? Secondly, given that the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman said that the DWP’s refusal to accept its findings is unacceptable and that it has had to ask Parliament to intervene—clearly, it has no confidence in the Department —how do we as Members demonstrate our lack of confidence in the Department and its Secretary of State?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving notice of the thrust of his question. First, the Chair has had no notice of an imminent statement. However, the hon. Gentleman will have heard the Leader of the House in answer to, I think, five questions on the subject this morning indicate very clearly that a statement will be made as soon as possible. I am sure the whole House will welcome that reassurance.
Bill Presented
Climate and Nature Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Alex Sobel, supported by Caroline Lucas, Ed Davey, Colum Eastwood, Brendan O’Hara, Olivia Blake, Sir Peter Bottomley, Daisy Cooper, Clive Lewis, Stephen Farry, Alison Thewliss and Derek Thomas, presented a Bill to require the United Kingdom to achieve climate and nature targets; to give the Secretary of State a duty to implement a strategy to achieve those targets; to establish a Climate and Nature Assembly to advise the Secretary of State in creating that strategy; to give duties to the Committee on Climate Change and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee regarding the strategy and targets; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 17 May, and to be printed (Bill 192).
Backbench Business
Armed Forces Readiness and Defence Equipment
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
Before we start the debate, I should inform the House that while the Chair has no power to impose a time limit on opening speeches, Mr Speaker has made it plain that he expects those speeches to be kept to a maximum—not a minimum —of 15 minutes. In order to assist the opening speakers, I will now put the clock on at 15 minutes.
Sir Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the First Report of the Defence Committee, Ready for War?, HC 26, the Eighth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, Improving Defence Inventory Management, HC 66, and the Nineteenth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, MoD Equipment Plan 2023-33, HC 451.
It is a pleasure to open this debate. There is only one way to start it, and it is how we should start every single debate on defence: with a clear-eyed appreciation of the threat to our country, our allies and our interests. Russia, which the integrated review identified and its refresh reaffirmed as our greatest adversary, has mobilised a war economy, spending nearly 40% of its budget on defence and security. Such is Russia’s rush to rearm that, notwithstanding all international sanctions, the International Monetary Fund has upgraded its economic forecast for the country from 1.1% to 2.6%, which makes it the fastest-growing economy in Europe.
Not only has Russia, through its renewed and devastating attack on Ukraine, shown its willingness to disregard every aspect of decency and international law, but its war machine is feeding an imbalance in munitions in Ukraine which we in the west are shamefully not doing enough to counter. The reality of war is that, ultimately, production lines tell. Notwithstanding the £2.5 billion that the UK is spending on military support this year, we need collectively to be doing more, not just in supporting Ukraine but in transforming our own supply lines. We need to enhance our own readiness to help deter Russia from a wider conflagration.
While the threat from Russia is grave, it is not the only threat we face. In east Asia, from which the Defence Committee has just returned, China has doubled its official spending on defence to $232 billion a year, although the real figure is much, much higher. North Korea is nuclear-armed, dangerous, unpredictable, and in closer alignment than for many years with Moscow. Iran and its proxies are destabilising the middle east, and, via the Houthis, pose a constant threat to shipping through the Red sea. In that regard, the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force are actively engaged as we speak.
Following our withdrawal from Afghanistan, the willingness of the west to face up to these challenges is being studied by the global south—countries that are vulnerable to destabilisation and worse on the part of our adversaries. Any sense of the west’s being distracted, or unwilling or unable to rise to the challenge, risks encouraging the increasing number of autocratic states to act in contravention of international law. The sabre-rattling in Venezuela over resource-rich provinces of Guyana, a Commonwealth country, is just one recent example.
Has the risk picture changed for the worse in the last few years? Clearly it has. Have we fully risen to that challenge? We have not. Those of us who are old enough to recall the joy of the Berlin wall coming down will also recall that we had, in that decade, been investing more than 5% of GDP in defence—well over twice our current commitment. In 1989, there was a justifiable rationale for reductions in defence spending, but what goes down to match a decreasing threat must assuredly go back up to meet an increasing threat, and that is where we stand today.
In the Defence Committee report, we are robust not only about the professionalism of the armed forces, but about their ability to rise to any challenge. However, they are being run hot continuously, and that has a direct impact on their ability to train for, recruit and retain for, and be equipped to face the toughest challenge imaginable: a full-scale prolonged conflict, alongside our allies, with a peer adversary. That is just one of many challenges that our armed forces are designed to meet, but it is the most significant—the challenge above all others that we seek to deter.
I welcome the extensive engagement of our armed forces in this year’s NATO exercise, Steadfast Defender, but the days when that could be a routine exercise conducted by forces dedicated solely to the preparedness to face the Russian threat are long gone. Our forces’ sheer range of commitments, from global engagements to domestic MACAs—military aid to civil authorities—maintain constant pressure. The impacts are simple: recruitment and retention that is not up to the task; a hollowing out of munition stockpiles and our means to replenish them; and an inability to prepare and train for the worst-case scenario at the intensity required to bolster our allies, and with the confidence to deter adversaries. Our report highlights the urgent need for change.
To enable us to be fully prepared for peer-on- peer warfighting, something must give, be it the scale of operations and engagements or the size of national investment in defence. There is no doubt in my mind about the course that needs to be taken. The global operations conducted by our armed forces have a critical supporting role in our efforts to deter and prevent expansionism by our adversaries. What the UK needs is not a diminution of our ambition, but an increase in our investment.
In saying that, I am acutely aware of the regular charge that additional UK investment in defence is wasteful if the Ministry of Defence does not get its house in order on procurement. The Public Accounts Committee has set out in its report the difficulties faced by the MOD in meeting its equipment plan objectives. Reports over the years, not least from the Defence Sub-Committee under my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), have highlighted where the MOD needs to do better on procurement. I have no doubt that we will hear from my right hon. Friend and others about some of the core weaknesses that these reports have revealed.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
The answer to my right hon. Friend’s question is yes. Could he explain to the House that one of the things that the Committee thought about very carefully was how candid we should be about the weaknesses in our armed forces? After much careful deliberation, we did not include anything in our “Ready for War?” report that we had reason to believe our potential adversaries did not already know.
Sir Jeremy Quin
I said we would hear from my right hon. Friend, and indeed we shall. He is absolutely right. We are incredibly careful as a Committee to keep to the right the side of the line. There are a lot of facts in our report that make for very, very unpleasant reading. I do not have time to list them all today, with the clock whirring as it is, but I commend the report. It goes through some of the problems we face in great detail. As my right hon. Friend says, they will be well known to our adversaries. If we do not front up to those problems, we will be fooling no one but ourselves.
Obviously, I have a personal interest in this matter, but I believe that over the past five years we have seen a real determination from the MOD to get better, and there are structural changes that will embed improvement. The defence and security industrial strategy moved the MOD away from competition by default and towards viewing our defence sector as a critical strategic asset. That has proved a timely intervention, placing more emphasis on building sovereign capacity and greater reassurance of our supply chains. DSIS has marked an improvement in the relationship with industry. Companies large and small are more engaged than they have ever been in the early thought processes around capability requirements and specifications. There is better investment in senior responsible owners to exercise control and authority over projects.
When the Department and industry work together—for example, on Poland’s defence expansion or on novel technologies for Ukraine—it is a formidable combination. Baking exports and industrial co-operation into procurement at the earliest stage works for industry and for the UK. Above all, achieving minimum deployable platforms early and allowing for spiral development, if properly invested against, will generate not only routinely upgraded state-of-the-art platforms, but industrial partners that are able to retain and invest in their workforce and their research and development. It means going beyond feast and famine, and towards long-term co-development.
I believe that the Minister’s recently announced reforms are excellent. They institutionalise reforms that really will improve our procurement, but for them to work as they deserve, there needs to be cultural change. Uniformed SROs need to recognise the profoundly different skillset that applies to procurement. They need to be encouraged to seek commercial and legal advice early in order to escalate problems. Above all, they need to be willing to recognise that when a project will not work, they should take the learning and call it a day. If we are focused, as we must be, on cutting-edge solutions, we must recognise that some will not work. For any commercial entity, that is not a sign of failure; it is a recognition that, in a portfolio, some risks will be taken that do not succeed.
In Defence Equipment & Support there are many good people doing a difficult and demanding job, but I believe it is absolutely possible, as part of the current reforms, to instil and reward greater entrepreneurialism and productivity. DE&S has the pay freedoms to do so. With cultural change and proper investment, the reforms will move us from peacetime lethargy, influenced by staccato funding, closer to the urgency and realism that the threats demand.
It is clear that no one on either side of the House should think that we can get to where we need to be against the current threat simply by being a bit better at procurement. As our report makes clear, significant improvements are required in everything from stockpiles to housing simply to retain and maintain the size of our current force structure, let alone increase it, as we should.
Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
I am glad that my right hon. Friend has mentioned accommodation, on which I focused after succeeding him as Minister for Defence Procurement. Does he agree that accommodation is as much a part of operational capability as hardware in the battlefield?
Sir Jeremy Quin
I support my right hon. Friend’s point. We had “fix on failure” for too long, although it has changed in recent years. More investment is being put into our housing, but it is needed because we have a crisis in retention and recruitment. As the report sets out in vivid and very scary detail, we are losing far more experienced personnel than we are able to recruit. Housing is part of the offer to our brilliant defence personnel that we need to get right.
While addressing all the issues I have mentioned, we must also increase our fundamental defence production capability. We underwrote commercial military expansion in the 1930s, and we should be prepared to do the same. It is absolutely clear that, although better buying will of course help, it should be alongside, not instead of, sustained, effective and increased investment.
Investment horizons on priority projects must stretch well beyond annual commitments to allow proper planning. We will make savings if the services do not gamble all their chips on the delivery of a perfect platform when it is “their turn,” and they will not do that if they know funding will be there for upgrades. Industry will invest alongside that, will work with small and medium-sized enterprises and will train the workforce we need if it knows that we are marching together for the long term rather than being marched over the edge of a cliff at the end of every order.
The need for increased defence investment would be true in any circumstances when faced by the threats we face. It is all the more vital when the United States’ commitment to Europe is being questioned. Since 2015, this Government have shown themselves to be ready to make difficult decisions, have shown leadership in the early days on Ukraine and have increased investment. In my personal opinion, the Government must now set out their timetable for reaching and sustaining 2.5%.
Although decisions should be taken “capability up” rather than “numbers down”, it is also my view that we are unlikely to be able to meet and deter expanding threats in the longer term for less than 3%, which remains a low level of annual insurance compared with the relatively recent past. However, the sooner the Government commit and invest, the lower the ultimate price likely to fall on this country. By doing so, we might be able to help save all of Europe by our example. Failure to invest could result in a very high price indeed.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
I really welcome this debate, in which five former Defence Ministers are speaking. That is probably a record—certainly in recent years. I very much thank the Chair of the Defence Committee for laying out the global challenges this country faces and some of the capability concerns. Given the expertise in the Chamber, I know that we will hear more about that.
I stand here as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, which sometimes feels a bit like the second Defence Committee because of the amount of time we spend examining the vast expenditure that this country makes on defence. Taxpayers give this money to the Government trusting that it will be spent well, but sadly all too often we see that it is not spent as well as it should be. We see money going in but we do not see the capability coming out that we require. The PAC examines that defence spending and the delivery; our job is to look at the economy, efficiency and effectiveness of how taxpayers’ money is spent by Government. As I say, the Ministry of Defence too often falls short on that.
The Committee has huge concerns about the MOD’s ability to deliver projects on time and to budget. This report is only one of our latest on the subject. Just because we have war paint on ships or something is very important, interesting and exciting technology to support our men and women on the frontline does not mean that it should not be treated like any other major project in Government and be managed well and properly. There is no point in having something perfect but late if our frontline personnel need it. As our report highlights, recent global events, which I will not go into, as the Chair of the Defence Committee has outlined them, throw into sharp focus why it is so vital that we deliver on time and that we have the capability, including industrial capability, to ramp up when something, such as munitions, for example, are used apace.
The PAC has examined the annual equipment plan from the MOD for more than 12 years. We have done that throughout the time I have been a member of the Committee, for the past nine years of which I have had the privilege of being its Chair. The defence equipment plan is the 10-year programme for the capability that the MOD says it requires and it lays out how that will be funded, and where the challenges and gaps in funding are. All bar last year’s plan were deemed unaffordable, but the PAC took the view that even in the year when the plan from the MOD came out as affordable, it was based on assumptions that were not realistic, and we did not believe it was fully affordable.
In simple terms, affordability is about the gap between the capability the plan lays out and the money available. As the plan covers 10 years, there have been times when Ministers, including some of the former Ministers present and perhaps even the current Minister, might have come up with reasons for that. They say, “Over 10 years, it is fine. We’ll juggle it a bit. We will balance a bit. We’ll get efficiency savings here and there.” We have seen those arguments and excuses far too often, and the efficiencies do not arrive or issues arise and defence programmes are put off and delayed. By delaying them we see a reprofiling of the costs, but no real reduction in them, and we see those chickens coming home to roost.
This year, the gap between the capability required and what is affordable is £16.9 billion—so it is nearly £17 billion over the 10-year period. We can then add in what the Army would deliver. It is perhaps worth my explaining that for some odd reason—the PAC has taken a strong view on this and even the permanent secretary at the MOD has acknowledged that there was an anomaly—when the Commands and the MOD put in their costs for the programmes, most of them put in the full costs of all the capability required, but the Army puts in only the costs of what it could afford. If we add in the capability that the Army actually requires, we are adding a further £12 billion to that nearly £17 billion, thus making the gap even bigger. There has been a clear deterioration in affordability. It is fair to say that £10 billion of that is because of inflationary costs—we partly know the reasons for that, but I am not going to go into them now—and about £2 billion is to do with foreign exchange costs. Again, the PAC examines those regularly with the MOD and the Treasury, but however we hedge it there will be some challenge on foreign exchange because of the nature of some of our defence procurement.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that that has been made worse by the MOD’s tendency to purchase off-the-shelf solutions from the United States in dollars, which is now accounting for a huge amount of the defence budget? As she says, even with hedging, this is a deadweight around the defence budget.
Dame Meg Hillier
My right hon. Friend raises an important point, and we could almost have a whole debate about that. We do not have time to go into the full detail today, but I will touch on our defence industrial strategy. That is what a lot of this comes down to; if we are buying things off the shelf, it can sometimes be more cost-effective, but we need to be careful and cautious, because the longer those projects are for, the greater the risk of foreign exchange challenges. There is also sometimes a risk to our own sovereign capability and the longevity of some of our defence industries.
We recognise that, with our allies, we work in an international world on this. So there is no straightforward answer, but defence industrial strategy is an area that not only the MOD but the whole of Government should be looking at, as it is vital. Both the Chancellor and shadow Chancellor talk about growing the economy, and our defence industries are based in areas where, if we could up the skills and jobs available, it could provide a major boost to the economy. So there are a lot of opportunities there.
The MOD has not credibly demonstrated how it will manage its funding to deliver the military capabilities the Government want. Our latest report says that they need to get “firmer control of defence procurement” because of this very large deficit in respect of the capability requirements needed. The budget has increased, and I am sure the Minister will stand up to tell us how much extra money is going into defence, but this is about not just the money, but how it is managed. The budget has increased by £46.3 billion over the next 10-year period compared with what was set out in last year’s equipment plan. As I said, the PAC has warned that the deficit is even bigger than expected, so that extra budget will be taken up by the deficit if it is not managed down. Part of the reason for that deficit is inflation, but another major impact on it is the costs of the Defence Nuclear Organisation, which is responsible for the vital nuclear deterrent. Those costs have increased by £38.2 billion since last year’s plan.
One of our Committee’s other concerns is that the MOD has been putting off making decisions about cancelling or reprofiling programmes. Reprofiling is not always a good thing, but sometimes we have to trim according to what is necessary. If the MOD cannot afford the plan, it should take a hard decision, but it has optimistically assumed that the plan would be affordable if the Government fulfilled their long-term aspiration to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence each year, despite there being no guarantee that that will happen. Of course, in an election year there is not even a guarantee as to which party will be in government to consider that. We know, and the Defence Committee will know even more than the PAC, how much the MOD is increasingly reliant on the UK’s allies to protect our national interests. That means that we also have to play our part by making sure that we are delivering that.
For all the time that I have served on the PAC— 13 years this year—the MOD has been led by optimism bias, and it is now pressing on based on not optimism but the sniff of optimism, as there is so little left in that approach that will deliver. We must call that out and call a spade a spade, by saying that the MOD can deliver only what is affordable. So either the money goes in or the MOD trims what it is trying to do, because the approach of trying to do everything all at once and not being able to afford it is just not going to work.
Sir Alec Shelbrooke
I am listening carefully to what the hon. Lady is saying. I have not cast my eye over the report she is speaking about. She talks about the Government or the MOD trimming projects. The lessons of George Osborne slashing the number of Type 45s in half have had a huge impact on naval capability, and of course we have more than 530 Ajax tanks to come. When we say that we must make savings, are we talking about a false economy? In the long run, it is far better to increase the GDP spend than to slash projects and totally undermine how the defence programme was originally laid out.
Dame Meg Hillier
I am tempted by the right hon. Gentleman to go into all sorts of long discussion about how the PAC looks at these issues. Resetting projects and programmes can certainly be problematic, and sometimes stopping something part way through can be expensive. Equally, however, altering the requirements part way through can add on costs. When I talk to the commands or the centre, one problem I find is that people sometimes want to gold-plate what they are procuring, and we sometimes need to look at doing those things in a different way. Brutally, let me say that the current situation is not affordable, which means we must make hard decisions about whether something is stopped or no longer procured, or more money is made available. As I have said, and as the PAC repeats ad infinitum, if more money is made available, we need better project management.
The MOD is also saying very clearly that it will not make any decisions until the next spending review. As everybody in the Chamber knows, that is supposed to be in November, but a general election is looming. A spending review is usually six months after the first Budget of a new Government, so we could be floating on the fumes of the current spending settlement until the summer of next year. In certain cases, we will still be pouring good money after bad; the Ministry of Defence needs to tighten up on that, because it cannot live on hope alone.
I touched on industry in answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). Industry needs a consistent and certain supply of business to keep the supply chain going, both for resilience and to ensure there is proper investment in the necessary infrastructure. We have seen some of our private sector industries leave equipment and buildings to crumble because they have not had continuity of supply. Some blame lies with them, not just with the Ministry of Defence, but consistency of supply is vital and getting that right provides a potential boon to the economy.
The Committee looks at procurement a lot. For the last decade or more, we have been saying that senior responsible owners need to be in place for far longer. They need to be where their expertise is needed for the right period of time, and then be moved on for the next phase of the project. We need to reward people who stay in those jobs, rather than expecting civil servants or military attachés to roll over on a three-year basis, thinking they just need to keep things ticking over. They need proper ownership and proper reward when they get things right. The MOD is beginning to move in the right direction on senior responsible owners’ skills and longevity, but it still has a lot of work to do to catch up to where it needs to be.
I touched on funding timeframes. The Treasury needs to seriously consider properly controlled longer-term budgets, as it is beginning to do in certain areas with the defence equipment plan. That does not mean giving carte blanche to the MOD; those budgets need to be tightly controlled, as the Public Accounts Committee has made clear. However, controlled longer-term budgets are vital.
Finally, the Public Accounts Committee has access to many areas of Government and all areas of spending, if we choose to look at them. I pay tribute to my fellow Committee members who have never leaked a single piece of information, of whatever sensitivity, in the last nine years. However, the Committee looks at certain issues through opaque glass and it is now time to have full transparency. I want as much information as possible to be in the public domain, but the mechanisms of open, public committees are not always appropriate for certain sensitive areas, including defence.
In our latest report, the Committee recommended that there needs to be a new mechanism and approach that allows Parliament to properly examine such issues in the right, secure context. That might be along the lines of the Intelligence and Security Committee, although we would certainly not be looking at information in that area and not in exactly the same way, because the Public Accounts Committee needs to be more fleet of foot on certain day-to-day spending issues. It is time we had transparency so the British taxpayer knows that every tax pound that is spent, whether on defence or on sensitive matters in other Departments, is being seen and scrutinised by senior parliamentarians who know what they are doing. It is an early thought of the Committee, but important to raise. We need full transparency so that officials and Ministers who are spending taxpayer money in this area of vast expense are properly scrutinised on their work.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
Order. Although there are not that many hon. Members present in the Chamber, it is immediately clear that there is a considerable amount of defence expertise present. That means we are likely to have a well-informed debate, which is not always the case. That being so, I will impose a 13-minute limit on speeches. That should enable all Members to have their say, and allow time for a full and proper response from the Front Benches. I hope that will satisfy all Members. It will be a formal time limit, which means the usual injury rules will apply. If Members take interventions, time will be added.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
May I begin by saying to the Minister for Defence Procurement, for whom I have great regard and who is trying to reform our broken procurement system, that everything I say in the next few minutes is not personally aimed at him? To quote “The Godfather”:
“It’s not personal…It’s strictly business.”
At his speech at Lancaster House on 15 January, the new Defence Secretary now famously said that we are moving
“from a post-war to a pre-war world”.
His words clearly resonated, both nationally and internationally. For example, when I was on a visit to Washington recently, those words were played back to us by Pentagon officials. Shortly after, in an unclassified letter to all Conservative MPs, the Defence Secretary stressed the need for industrial improvements and to rearm, in terms reminiscent of the 1930s.
However, let us consider what that actually means. The head of the MOD, a senior Cabinet Minister, has said, in effect, that we are now likely to go to war. Although he did not specifically state who with—be it Russia, China, Iran or someone else—that one statement, which I fear may turn out to be true if we do not rapidly improve our conventional deterrence, has incredibly serious implications for our entire defence and security posture. The much-vaunted integrated review has now been completely overtaken by events. In a world with increasing Iranian-inspired violence in the middle east, sulphurous threats over Taiwan emanating from Beijing and now the state-sponsored murder of Alexei Navalny, even the most naive liberals surely have to concede that the Defence Secretary might just be right. The integrated review, and its 2023 refresh, are completely lacking in any great sense of urgency in response.
Similarly, the MOD defence Command Paper, which was meant to dovetail into the integrated review, also lacked a sense of urgency, even to the point of retiring a number of key frontline systems, such as radar planes and tactical transport aircraft, in favour of new equipment, arriving much later in this decade. Many analysts expected that to change post Ukraine, but no major equipment decisions were altered, despite Putin’s barbaric invasion in February 2023—something that some members of the Defence Committee effectively predicted in a debate in this House some six weeks before the invasion began.
Dame Meg Hillier
The right hon. Gentleman is in the unique position of being a member of both the Public Accounts Committee and the Defence Committee. Does he share my view that it is a bit like groundhog day when hear the words “defence” and “review” in whichever order? I do not know how many such reviews we have had in the last few years, yet we never see the step change necessary to ensure we will deliver the capability our country needs.
Mr Francois
The Chair of the PAC is entirely right, although in the MOD context, if it is groundhog day, “groundhog” sounds like a vehicle that has slipped to the right.
More recently, after a detailed inquiry, the Defence Committee, on which I serve, published a damning report on 4 February 2024, entitled simply “Ready for War?”. I have served on the Committee since 2017 and this is one of the punchiest reports we have ever produced. In answer to the question in the title, the all-party Committee, which includes six former MOD Ministers, concluded:
“Despite the United Kingdom spending approximately £50 billion a year on defence (plus more for Ukraine) the UK’s Armed Forces require sustained ongoing investment to be able to fight a sustained, high-intensity war, alongside our allies, against a peer adversary. ”
In plainer English, and as the subsequent detail in the report starkly points out, despite a considerable outlay of taxpayer’s cash, we could not fight a sustained war with Putin’s Russia for more than a couple of months before we ran out of ammunition and fighting equipment, not least as we have very few tanks, ships or combat aircraft in reserve. The full report can be found online.
Given that it takes years to build a modern warship—a totally ridiculous 11 years in the case of the new Type 26 frigate—and four years to build a Typhoon fighter, if we had to fight what the strategists sometimes describe as a “come as you are war”, one with little further warning, we would have to rely on whatever equipment we had to hand or could rapidly remobilise. We simply do not have enough war-winning kit to win as it is. As the Public Accounts Committee’s report on the 10-year equipment plan illustrates starkly, the difference between what the MOD aspires to buy and the funding it is likely to have available is £17 billion. However, it is worse because the three services account for the plan on a different basis. Without going into all the technicalities, an apples and apples comparison across the three services shows that the gap is £29 billion. Even beyond gaps in capability of our kit, our greatest weakness is now the lack of skilled personnel to operate and maintain the equipment that we do have. Without them—and far too many of them are leaving, as the Chair of the Defence Committee said—even multi-billion dollar aircraft systems simply remain in the hangar.
One perfect example of how dysfunctional the MOD has now become in relation to people is the saga of Capita—or, forgive me, “Crapita”, as it is now affectionally known to the Defence Committee. It has totally messed up the recruitment system for the British Army. A few years ago, its share price topped £4; today, it is barely 13 pence. Everyone in Defence knows that the outsourced contract has been a disaster, yet absolutely no one in the upper echelons of the Department has the moral courage to sack the company. The Defence Secretary recently described the situation in The Times as “ludicrous”. He is absolutely right. Indeed, no doubt he has made a note of his own comments on his own famous spreadsheet, but still nothing actually happens. Capita limps on as the Army bleeds out—with, in some parts of the Army, three soldiers now leaving for every one that Capita somehow, painfully, manages to recruit. If we think we are going to deter the likes of Vladimir Putin in this manner, we are living on a different planet, in a parallel universe, in a fantasy dimension.
Given that we now spend the thick end of £50 billion a year on defence, the British taxpaying public are quite entitled to ask why so little of our defence capability works properly. Why are some of the Army’s fighting vehicles 60 years old? Why do we have hardly any battle tanks that actually work? Why do we have hardly any submarines that are now regularly put to sea? Why do we have aircraft carriers that perennially break down whenever they try to leave port? Bluntly, it is because we now have a Ministry of Defence that has become in recent years a gigantic, sclerotic bureaucracy; constantly hidebound by needless, self-generated red tape; obsessed with process rather than outcomes; in which some senior civil servants are now more interested in wokery than weaponry, endlessly ripped off by some of their own major contractors, such as Boeing, to name but one; and in which key elements of our fighting equipment are so old—and the procurement system for replacing them so broken—that we now cannot fight a major war with Russia for more than a few weeks, as it well knows.
Moreover, as the Red Book clearly shows in tables 2.1 and 2.2, we are cutting the core UK defence budget next year by £2.5 billion and playing “smoke and mirrors” with the donations to Ukraine and with addressing an overspend on the nuclear enterprise from the Treasury reserve in order to pretend otherwise. This act of what the Russians call “maskirovka”, or strategic deception, is wholly unworthy of a Conservative Government. If Members happen to believe, as I do, that the role of our armed forces is determinedly to save lives by convincing any potential aggressor that, were they to attack us, we would defeat them, then we are palpably failing.
This is not an intellectual parlour game. Ultimately, this is about whether our grandchildren are going to grow up in someone else’s re-education camp, but we might not know that if we walked into the current MOD. We can try to blame the military, for instance, for so frequently over-specifying new military equipment, such as Ajax, that it enters service many years late, but in the end the responsibility lies with the politicians who, theoretically at least, are supposed to be in charge.
The Romans had a famous saying about military matters: “Si vis pacem, para bellum”—he who desires peace save-line3should prepare for war. Given that the Secretary of State, the man who runs the Department, has told us that we are in a pre-war world, surely we had better start preparing for it, if we are to have any chance whatsoever of preventing it, and we should now do that in earnest, before it is too late.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. I know that he is coming towards the end of his speech. Would he care to remark on a couple of slightly more optimistic features of deterrence, because deterrence of conventional forces depends on far more than an equal balance of equipment, even though, as he says, we are nowhere near achieving that? It also depends on our allies and others who will fight in the same cause. Does he not accept that it is not just enough to take our defence spending up to 3% or more, such as the 5% we regularly spent through the cold war, but essential to ensure that our American allies remain totally involved in the deterrence process and that the Ukrainians succeed in fending off Russia, because if they succeed we can contain Russia in the future, as we successfully did in the past?
Mr Francois
I agree with every word my right hon. Friend, the former eminent Chairman of the Defence Committee, just said. My one caveat is that the MOD’s excuse for these capability gaps is that we can rely on allies to fight with us. But they will be relying on us, and if we are unable to support them or they are on wartime tasks elsewhere, things might go horribly wrong.
I say all of this not just as someone who served proudly as a Territorial Army infantry officer in my local Royal Anglian Regiment during the cold war; not just as someone who is still very proud to carry the late Queen’s commission; not just as a former veterans and then Armed Forces Minister in the Ministry of Defence, albeit almost a decade ago; but most of all, as I said at Prime Minister’s questions last week, as the devoted son of a D-day veteran. Stoker 1st Class Reginal Francois died when I was 40 years of age. He told me one night of the carnage—his word—that he witnessed that day, albeit from offshore, on a minesweeper named HMS Bressay. In the afternoon, they were opposite Omaha beach.
Let me quote Shakespeare’s famous phrase:
“This story shall the good man teach his son.”
My father was a good man. The story that he told me was of a country that eventually, reluctantly, had to go to war against the evil of Nazi tyranny because for years its politicians had been so parsimonious—he actually said “tight”—and so naive that when Nazism emerged, we completely failed to deter it. That is the lesson of the 1930s, but it was also his lesson to me.
My father made me take a solemn vow that, as his son, I would never take living in a free country for granted, because, as he said, too many good men had died to achieve it. Two years after we had that conversation, he was dead. That is why I am here this afternoon. That is why I came into politics in the first place. As a wartime serviceman, my father was a great admirer of Winston Churchill, our greatest ever Prime Minister, who led this country through a war of national survival and then lost a general election for his trouble. When I walked into the Chamber earlier this afternoon, I could still see the damage caused when the Chamber was bombed in 1941. Churchill insisted that it not be repaired, lest we forget, and he was right.
In summary, I may not be my father’s contemporary, that famously courageous MP, Leo Amery, so I cannot claim to “speak for England” on this matter, but I was elected to speak for the people of Rayleigh and Wickford, and so, on their behalf, I issue this stark warning today. The skies are darkening. Brutal dictators with powerful weapons at their disposal are on the rise. The democracies are on the backfoot rather than the front. History tells us time and again, and indeed ad nauseam, that the appeasement of dictators—be they called Adolf Hitler or Vladimir Putin—does not work. We should be increasing the defence budget to at least 3% of GDP—what my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) used to call “at least three to keep us free”—not cutting it, as we now are, and pretending that we are not. The first duty of Government, above all others, is the defence of the realm, and we forget that at our peril. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
The debate encompasses a wide range of issues. My colleague on the Defence Committee, the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), outlined some of them. I will focus on one aspect: industrial capacity, by which I mean not only the big, well-known manufacturing plants, or the well-known prime companies that we often rightly hear from in the national media, but their extended supply chains and material suppliers, and equally their often under-remarked-on workforce—not just the engineers and craftsmen but the crucial production workers, who are vital for ramping up production and our ability to surge in a crisis. We have experienced difficulties with that in response to the war in Ukraine.
Many in that supply chain also sell to the civilian market, including the public sector. Many of the specialist engineering companies in the midlands supply Formula 1, civil aviation and premium vehicles, as well as defence. They need orders from defence and from public sector bodies to maintain their workload and employment, and to train the workforce of the future. That is why—this will be a theme throughout my contribution—a whole-of-Government approach is necessary. Underlying that is the question of whether we are in a new environment or just an oscillation. Basically, is there a war going on? The people of Ukraine certainly know that. The Baltic nations, Poland, Finland and Sweden know that. It does not mean that war is inevitable, but it certainly means that it is now possible, and failure to respond will actually make it more likely.
One has to question whether the commentariat and the British establishment understand that. The Government need to make clear their view on the state of international relations. Do they regard the invasion of Ukraine by Russia as an interlude—a very bloody one—after which the situation will return to something approximating normal, albeit not the status quo ante, or has there in fact been a tectonic shift, and are we at best back in the cold war, although with a hot war going on in Ukraine and the danger of extension elsewhere along the new iron curtain that is descending over Europe? That is clearly understood not just by the politicians and the defence establishment, but by the publics in Sweden and Finland, with a dramatic shift in opinion, after centuries of neutrality, and their historic decision to join NATO and become very active participants.
Even so, across NATO, there is not that sense of urgency, or a clear realisation of the crisis. Only this week, the boss of the Scandinavian ammunition company Nammo was in the press pointing out that societies were still in peacetime mode. He gave the example of its factory in Norway, which needs additional electricity supply capacity in order to expand. A new site for TikTok has been created nearby, but the factory cannot get enough electricity. He rightly pointed out that the defence of western Europe is slightly more important than cat videos on TikTok. He contrasted that with the Defence Production Act in the United States, which was the Truman-era response to the Korean war, based on the Franklin D. Roosevelt War Powers Act. It gives extensive powers to the US Government, and they are using them. That is why they are responding to the weaknesses in procurement and ramping up production capacity, including through several Government-owned and Government-constructed, company-operated plants. Will the Minister indicate whether our Government are looking at that as a possible mechanism?
Do the Government recognise the fragility of the supply situation? Recent crises such as covid, and the situation in the Red sea and Ukraine, have already shown how vulnerable our supply chains are, and many firms and customers are finding that the so-called cheapest option can end up being very expensive. To be fair, that applies not just to the United Kingdom; all around the world, companies are finding that extended supply lines and single points of failure at home or abroad can have very damaging consequences. The discussion has shifted, and now there is much talk about reshoring, near-shoring and friend-shoring. I am not sure how much of that has penetrated the calcified mindset of our Treasury and the senior civil service, but I hope that the Minister will be able to shed some light on that.
This is not a Eurocentric issue; we must also be aware of the increasing tension in the Gulf, particularly arising from the destabilising impact of Iran and its proxies across the middle east and north Africa, as well as the increasingly aggressive attitude of China, which is why deepening relations through AUKUS and with Japan is so necessary and welcome. I hope that the Minister can report on the success this week at the AUKMIN—Australia-UK ministerial consultations—and AUKUS conferences taking place in Australia. We fully understand why the Secretary of State is there today, rather than responding to this debate.
We have to be clear that these problems did not come out of a clear blue sky. They were shown to us some years ago. The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford identified the evidence that we had from an American general. When the Americans conducted an exercise with the British Army about an outbreak of conflict in Europe, we basically ran out of munitions in about 10 days, but nothing was done about it. Even once the conflict started in Ukraine in February 2022, and it soon became clear that artillery would play a major role in it, the Ministry of Defence did not place an order for new shells until July 2023. The Minister cannot complain that I have not given him notice of this issue; I have raised it several times in previous debates, and have never had a satisfactory answer about that delay. We cannot afford that degree of indecision going forward. It is not as though we have not had shell crises before; we had one in 1915, which brought down the Government. I am afraid that there does not seem to be much collective institutional memory in the civil service today.
Mr Francois
We are giving £2.5 billion in the next financial year to Ukraine, and it is money well spent, but we cannot spend the same pound twice, so does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if we rightly give that money to Ukraine, we cannot then spend it on Army salaries, British shells or submarine maintenance? In other words, it is for the Ukrainians; it is not part of the UK defence budget, is it?
John Spellar
Well, it is unfortunately scored as being in the UK defence budget, and in the claim that we are keeping up defence expenditure; that masks an actual cut in British domestic defence spending. It is absolutely right that we supply the Ukrainians—I think we should be supplying more—as they are on the frontline and are carrying the fight. We—not just us, but the rest of Europe, the United States and the free world—should be backing them up with matériel. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that trying to slip that into the defence budget, rather than it being part of our national commitment, is the wrong way of handling it.
Even with new production, I am still not clear—perhaps the Minister will clarify this—on what is happening with the increasing capacity for propellants and explosives. Across the western world, very few points—just two or three factories—are capable of making them, and they are stretched to capacity. I understand that difficulty, but I want to know what is being done to create new capacity. I know that the United States is doing it, but what are we doing here and in Europe? In that context, I commend the article from Iain Martin in The Daily Telegraph, in which he says that, whatever our differences with other European countries over the EU and Brexit, we should certainly be working much more closely on maintaining and creating new defence capacity—not just military but industrial as well.
Although I accept that the Government and this House must take the lead, others must follow. If we are, as I have been arguing, in a new defence environment, the City of London and the finance houses must accept their responsibilities. They must make it clear that not only is investment in defence a good investment as it leads part of British manufacturing, but it is their patriotic duty and part of the defence of the free world. However, getting that message across and changing the mindset needs a whole-of-Government approach, not just the involvement of the Ministry of Defence and those of us in the House who are interested in the subject.
As I said to union representatives in the evidence session, the unions have tens of thousands of members in the defence and aerospace sector. They should not stand idly by while mobs try to shut down their workplaces. Only this week, we had demonstrations outside GE Aerospace in Cheltenham, which was, for over a century, the Smiths factory. There have also been protests outside the Leonardo site in Edinburgh, which I presume is the old Ferranti site. I hope that unions are backing not just their members’ employment but the national interest, and will look at whether any funding is going to bodies that are organising to shut those places.
I fully acknowledge the issues facing our uniformed forces, as well as their expertise and commitment. I am pleased that others will highlight their contribution. I regret that the Government have taken their commitment for granted. In any conflict, supply and resupply are crucial. Conflicts are won not just on the battlefield, but—sometimes even more so—in our factories and those of our allies. That is why we need a rethink, a reset and a recovery of lost ground. Will the Government take up that challenge?
Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)
We face a world of complexity and threat unparalleled in our recent modern experience. Scanning across Europe, south-east Asia and the middle east, we see that this is a world where there are threats emerging, or already in place, to which we as a nation, with our allies, must attend and deal with. We do so in an environment where the most powerful—or almost most powerful—mechanisms affecting our lives are working every day: the effect of technology and changes in price. Their effect is to bring forward new ways of making war that might have been unimaginable two years ago. They have the effect of bringing new actors—private actors, not merely states—into the picture; that might have been unimaginable just a few years ago. We see evolution rapidly occurring in the nature of the threat that we must deal with.
The report produced by the Select Committee, which I was proud to join earlier this year, is in my view not just an exemplary piece of work, but testimony to the Committee’s quality. I speak as someone who sat for five years on the Treasury Committee —no slouch when it comes to quality and expertise—and then chaired a Select Committee myself. I have been deeply impressed by the quality of thought, the experience and the attention that my colleagues and Clerks have brought to these matters. The report is a very good example of that.
Crucially, the report brings out some of the foundational assumptions that have not yet been adequately tested in our defence thinking. It is above all about our readiness; not just our operational and warfighting readiness, but our strategic readiness and our capacity to think ahead to where the escalating, multiplying and developing threat might be in future, and how we can, in a full spirit of resilience, prepare for it. I congratulate the Committee on its work. I have been proud to be associated with it, and congratulate those who made previous contributions to this excellent debate.
We know, because there is ample historical evidence, that democracies can fight wars with an intensity and endurance that is not available to autocracies. However, it has historically taken democratic states time to get moving—time to move public opinion; time to bring the people, the demos, with the politicians and with Government, in order to bring the full resources of a nation to bear. In the modern world, we may not have time to do that; we must start to prepare now—and not just our warfighting capability. It has rightly been highlighted today that we are moving from a post-war to a pre-war world. In that sense, we must give the need for resolution and resilience the profile that it requires among people across the country.
It is not the first time that these matters have occurred, as the House will well know. In the 18th century—a time when this country was more or less continuously at war, with relatively small intervals of peace—there was a period when there was tremendous concern about the effects of commercial society and peace. There was a worry that martial virtue might yield to “luxury” and “softness”, as it was put. We must be aware of that problem; we see it everywhere. I myself was in eastern Europe before 1989. I have experienced what it is like to live under a communist country and in the shadow of Russia. It is nothing that anyone in this House should feel the tiniest appetite to even glimpse, let alone endure or invite our citizens or allies to contemplate. We must be absolutely resolute in thinking about how we can ensure a gradual process—without the loss of our democratic values, and given our constraints—to ready our people for strategic decisions in due course. Everyone in this House prays that it will never happen, but we must prepare ourselves for the possibility that there could be some development for which we are, as yet, inadequately prepared. We must address that as a matter of money, organisation and, of course, talent.
We must fill the strategic gap in our thinking—a gap that is only being accelerated by the rapid growth in artificial intelligence, which threatens to upend not just many of the resources and systems that we use in this country, but much of the strategic thinking that we are bringing to the whole question of what it is to be at war. If Members doubt that, they should look at the work that is being done. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) rightly mentioned maskirovka: the use of AI in mimicry, spoofing and false-flag operations. That is something that we as a country are just beginning to get our head around, even at an advanced defence and security level.
We have an escalating series of security challenges. The solution to them is not more state, as such, but a much more intelligent deployment of the relationship between states and markets; between the public and the private; and between the secret, the grey and the not-so-secret. We have to bring all those resources with us if we are going to be successful, and we have to be more emphatic about the desperate need for competence. That means competence not just in our civil service and our military capability, and of course in the agencies that work alongside them, but in this House. Our political parties have a responsibility to develop, recruit, enable, understand, enfranchise and promote talent, and I put it to the House that no political party is doing that adequately at the moment. We should have chief talent officers in political parties—people actively thinking about where we can find competence, capability, knowledge and experience, and how we can deploy those things in this great Chamber in which we have the honour to sit.
The deep issue here, if I may say so, is not just that we have a civil service that is—as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford mentioned—preoccupied with process in a way that is understandable in peace but, I am afraid, inadequate to the preparation for war. It is not just that there is a preoccupation with process over outcome, when outcome is the only thing that matters when we are trying to deliver a capability; it is that we as a nation have not yet made the intellectual, moral, emotional and spiritual shift towards deeply preparing for a pre-war situation. If I may make a party political point for a second, the Government have done a splendid job in starting to take control of a very difficult fiscal situation, which they inherited and was built up through crisis over the past few years, but to what end?
As was said famously by a man nearly 250 years ago in Bristol, we come to this House not as a “congress of ambassadors”, but as
“a deliberative assembly of one nation, with one interest”.
That interest cannot be sectionalised, including within Government. I say that as a former Financial Secretary; my Chairman, my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin), is also a former Financial Secretary, and we do not say that the budget for defence should go up because we want to be profligate, nor that there should be anything less than proper constraint and proper scrutiny of the long-term spending of this country, but it must go up. That must be shared across both parties; it must be something that even the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer should bear in mind and account for in this Chamber as if they were preparing for war, so that we can all know that they have come to terms with the compromises, difficulties and challenges that we all face today.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
I begin by joining the Chair of the Defence Committee, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin), in thanking the men and women of our armed forces—we should never forget their dedication. It is often said that the first duty of government is to keep the nation safe and protect its citizens, but we have a Conservative party that has admitted that it has “hollowed out” defence. We have had a return to war in Europe and growing threats around the world, as has been explained, and we now need a clear-eyed vision of what we need to do in defence. It is about deterrence—there has been a lot of talk about warfighting, but the success of defence is in deterring action from happening.
We need to recognise how we have got to where we are today. I hear all the calls from Conservative Members for increases in defence expenditure. I do not question those individuals’ commitment or dedication, because I know that many of them are very committed individuals who believe in defence, as I do. However, I find it a little ironic that between 2010 and 2016, the defence budget in this country was cut by 18%. Even with the increase, the defence budget is still 7% lower than it was in 2010, and the Budget on 6 March included a cut in the defence budget. I hear all the stirring cries for increasing the defence budget, but we did not get into this situation by accident.
In 2010, we had a Conservative-led coalition Government who tried to scare the public by saying that they inherited a £36 billion black hole in the defence budget. That was absolute nonsense. The figure came from a 2009 NAO report on the equipment budget that said that there was a £6 billion black hole in that budget, and that if we had flat cash for the next 10 years, the figure would be £30 billion. The spin doctors added another £6 billion to that figure, and it became the myth that was reiterated.
That myth masked what the Government were really up to, which was slashing the defence budget over that period, and we are still seeing the consequences of those decisions. The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), whom I respect, talked about a 1930s moment. I agree that we are in a 1930s moment—the similarities are there. In the 1920s and 1930s, the Conservative Government cut defence expenditure, including Winston Churchill, who admitted it in later life.
John Spellar
Another key feature of that era was the Treasury’s 10-year rule of basing defence expenditure on the assumption that there would not be a war in Europe within the next 10 years, which rather unravelled at the end of the 1930s.
Mr Francois
I hope this does not come across as nit-picking—it is important. The 10-year rule, which was a rolling 10 years, was not just a Treasury policy: it was the policy of the entire Government, and it was not rescinded by the incoming Labour Government in the 1920s. It was the policy of the whole Government, and it was only rescinded in the mid-1930s, a few years after Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. It is important to get that right.
Mr Jones
The right hon. Gentleman has got that on the record. I am not going to get into a history lesson about the 10-year rule—I think the history books tell the story—but we have seen what happened from 2010 onwards.
We have had a cut of 40,000 personnel in our armed forces, and it is not just about numbers; it is about experience. Individuals were made compulsorily redundant. If I had made people compulsorily redundant when I was a Defence Minister, The Sun and the right-wing press in this country would have been shouting from the rooftops, but they did absolutely nothing, and we lost experience. One in five of our ships was removed, as were more than 200 aircraft, and the satisfaction rating among our armed forces personnel is now below 50%. We have had a system over the past few years that has wasted money, as we have chronicled in our report, and we actually now have the £30 billion black hole in our equipment budget that was predicted in 2009, as the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), has referred to.
This is not about whether the defence budget is 2%, 3% or 5%. It is about looking at how we have got into this situation, and how we change it—how we face the challenges that confront us today. Whichever party is in government after the next election will have to face those challenges, but we have to get away from British exceptionalism. We have great ambitions to be a global power, like some kind of imperial power. I am sorry, but we are not. We can continue that myth ad infinitum, but unless we link the resource to the ambition, it is not going to work.
For the past few years, we have had the nonsense slogan of “global Britain”—some pre-imperialist view of what we are doing around the world. I am sorry, but it is absolute nonsense. We have to look at what we can do to protect our own defence. The idea that we are going to be a major player in anything that happens in the south-east of the South China sea—that having two offshore patrol vessels based in Singapore is going to deter the Chinese—is nonsense. If anything happens there, frankly, any commitment that we could give is like a gnat on the backside of an elephant compared with what the Americans would be able to do. We have to be realistic about that.
What do we need to do? We need to look at what we must deliver as part of our NATO commitments. We also need to get away from the myth—and it is a myth, in our Army in particular—that we will deliver a force of divisional strength under any NATO commitment. We cannot do it now, we have not been able to do it for quite a few years, and we just need to be realistic about that. We need to sit down with NATO and look at what we can contribute to European defence. Clearly, the nuclear deterrent is a key part of that. However, do we, for example, need a full spectrum Army? No, we do not. We need to plug into our NATO allies, and ask what we can deliver well as part of the overall defence against the threat coming not only from Russia in Europe, but increasingly from China in the north Atlantic as we get global warming and the opening of sea lanes.
There is an idea that we will be sending aircraft carriers around the world. No, we will not. We need to commit them to NATO, and that means some very tough decisions. It also means that we need a mindset change. We have to be honest with the public about this, and say that we will not be able to do everything. There are then some hard decisions to be taken about the armed forces. For example, we should say to the Army, “We’re not going to be doing that, but we are going to do this very well. We will dovetail that into NATO commitments, and actually make a real difference.” There are big decisions that will have to be taken by any Government, whoever gets in after the next election.
Please let us get away from the myth—and it is a myth—that we will be going around the world and intervening in every single conflict. For example, look at the air strikes on the Houthis in the last few weeks. We have contributed four aircraft because we want to be seen to be alongside the Americans, but I would ask: what is the strategy for doing that? There is no strategy. Okay, we have bombed the Houthis, but is that going to resolve the situation? No, it is not. Does it show that Britain is a global power? No, it does not. Frankly, we do not have the resources, unless someone will say that the defence budget is going to be 3%, 4%, 5%, 6% or 7%, but no Government are going to commit to that.
I say to Conservative Members and the commentariat in our right-wing press that they should just be honest with the British people about what we can do. We can and do have a valuable role to play in NATO and we have willing partners that want to work with us. I am certainly very excited about Sweden and Finland joining, although we need to make sure that we actually get those commitments. As I say, some hard decisions have to be taken and there are some home truths for our armed forces. As the Chair of the PAC said, there are capabilities that we will just have to get out of. We will have to say, “We’re not going to do that, but we’re going to do this and we’re going to do it well, and we are going to contribute,” and that will maximise our influence.
On China, people ask: do we just forget about the South China sea? No, we do not. We use our strong diplomacy, and our great and fantastic abilities with technology and other things in those areas, but it is not about deploying people or equipment out there. Frankly, the sooner we get the reality of such a wake-up call, the better. I will always call, and I have always called, for increased defence expenditure, but I will not do so if it is just to try to plug a vision that will never ever be achieved. We need to make sure that we spend that money well.
That leads on to the point about skills raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar). We need to see any defence expenditure as potential growth in our economy. However, we are not doing that if we are giving contracts to the United States, or to Spain for fleet solid support ships, and not thinking about growing our defence industries here. I accept that there has to be international collaboration, but we must have give and take. The idea that the French would ever give an FSS ship contract to a Spanish shipyard, frankly, is just—
Mr Jones
It is laughable, as my right hon. Friend says. We need to make sure that we actually invest, because this is about skills and about ensuring that we have the workforce.
We have seen the effects when we just pull out of such work. We cannot look at our skills base as a tap, which we turn on when we want it and turn off again when we do not. We cannot do so, because we have seen the costs of that—for example, on the Astute programme. To be political, it was again the Conservative Government who stopped building submarines, so we had a gap in skills, and it has taken all the effort recently to rebuild that skills base and ensure we get it back. We must have such a skills base continually, and that has to be done by working with our European allies. Whether the zealots of Brexit and the anti-Europeans like it or not, if we are talking about things such as stockpiles, we do have to work with allies and make sure that we can deliver them through the supply chain we have.
Mr Jones
No. I am sorry, but I do not have the time.
I now come on to what will happen after the next general election. Is there going to be a massive increase in defence expenditure whoever wins the election? No, there is not. We know that, so let us just tell the public that. What we need to ensure is that we get the maximum effect from what we do spend. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), who speaks for the Labour party on defence, will—if he gets the job—have a big task facing him if we are successful at the next general election. My heart sinks a little when he talks about reviews. Yes, we need to have a review, but we also need action straightaway.
It is now critical that we take some key decisions, and there are very difficult discussions to be had, not just with the British people about where Britain is realistically in the world today, but with some of the members of the armed forces and the chiefs, in saying, “We’re going to do this, and we’re going to do it well, and we’re going to make sure we are safe as a nation.” Is that defeatism or saying that Britain is finished? No, it is not. I think we have a proud future, and we have some great military and diplomatic assets, including in the way we do things. However, we should not delude ourselves that we will be going back to some pre-Suez or pre-second world war global Britain as an imperialist power. We are just not going to be able to do that, and I think we have to be honest with the British people.
There also now has to be speed. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar) said about munition shelling, we cannot have a situation in which it takes a year for munition stocks to be replaced. The tempo has to be increased, so action will have to be taken very quickly. I am all in favour of a review and a study of policy—in the last few years in this country we have lacked any thought-out policy work or strategy, and we need that—but we also need action.
It is a daunting task that will face any Government after the next general election, but let us be proud of the members of our armed forces, who work on our behalf to keep us secure. There is an impression that defence is somehow a Conservative issue; I am sorry, but it is not a Conservative issue. A lot of the men and women in our armed forces come from the poorest and most deprived communities in our country, but they are proud to serve their country, and I think we should be proud of them. We should give them the clear commitment that they have our backing, but be clear with them that we must be realistic about the tasks we ask them to do to keep us safe.
Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)
It is an honour to take part in this debate. I pay tribute to the Defence Committee and the Public Accounts Committee for what I agree are exceptionally good reports. I echo my right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) on that point.
This is possibly the most important speech I will give as an MP, and I do so on behalf of the military in my constituency of Devizes. I have the honour to represent the garrison towns of Tidworth, Bulford, Larkhill and others. I went up on Salisbury plain recently with Colonel Matt Palmer, the commander of the Army in the south-west, who showed me with the sweep of his arm where 20,000 of our armed forces live and work. As my right hon. Friend said, we are not here just as ambassadors for our constituencies; I am going to speak in my role as an MP about the essential imperative of national security.
I will, however, first make another local point. In the Devizes constituency is the site of the battle of Roundway Down, which was the most successful battle in the royalist cause in the English civil war, in that it gave the south-west to the King for the next two years. I mention the battle of Roundway Down, because it was that defeat of the parliamentary forces that spurred the reform of the parliamentary army. That led to the creation of the new model army, which of course went on to win the civil war, and transformed the way in which the military in this country and across Europe was organised for decades to come. The lesson of the new model army and the reforms that happened in short order in the 1640s was not about a major new doctrine of warfighting, but about the imperative of having a well equipped, well trained, well led army that is innovative, agile, professional and with high morale. We need that again.
I mention that because it is on my mind, having yesterday had the pleasure of attending a session at the Royal United Services Institute organised by the New Bletchley foundation led by Brigadier Nigel Hall. It is issuing a report with input from a galaxy of distinguished former generals and other experts. Sir Richard Barrons was on the panel, as were Professor Michael Clark and others. They put forward a short report that Members can find online on a proposal for a reconfigured Army. The point the panel made—it has been made repeatedly in this debate—is simple: we have to be ready to fight the war we wish to deter. That means really ready, not just ready on paper or ready plausibly in a way that might convince someone on a doorstep that we are making sufficient investment in the Army. We need to know that we are ready, and crucially our enemy needs to know that. I echo the points made by the Chair of the Defence Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin) and by my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) that our enemies know what our capabilities are. They will not be deceived by spin from a press officer in Whitehall. It is essential that we are ready to fight the war.
The sad fact—there is no point sugar-coating it, given the point I have just made—is that we are not ready to fight the war we wish to deter. The reports make that plain. I have great respect for Ministers on the Front Bench, and I recognise the genuine investments going into parts of our armed forces, which are extremely welcome in my constituency, but the fact is, as General Barrons said yesterday,
“we are back in a moment of existential risk in an era of great power confrontation”.
Laying aside the fantasies of the post-cold war world of our being somehow beyond war and in an era of minor peacekeeping operations, we are back in a sense in the mid-20th century, with the crucial difference of the high-tech domains with which we are now coming to terms. Unlike the mid-20th century, we have hollowed out our Army over the past 30 years, and I echo the powerful points that my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford made drawing a comparison with the 1930s—that “low dishonest decade”, as it has famously been called. We now have three decades where we have suffered disinvestment.
While I acknowledge the major funding commitments being made to the armed forces, I highlight that they are insufficient at the moment. I recognise that abstract percentages of GDP are in a sense secondary to the real question of how we spend money and where it goes, but those figures are important, and the basic fact is that we need to be spending more than 2% or 2.5%, and at least 3%. If we consider the worst coming to the worst, and the US withdrawing its NATO commitments, as we hear threatened from time to time, across the NATO alliance we would all be needing to reach at least 4% just to maintain NATO’s current strength.
Sir Alec Shelbrooke
A recent meeting of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly that I attended assessed that it would need to be an increase of 5% of GDP on top of current spend, were the Americans to pull out.
Danny Kruger
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that. These figures seem extraordinarily large to us, but if we consider the worst coming to the worst, and our being in a hot war in Europe, we would be back to spending significantly more. It was 50% of GDP in world war two, so the figures we are talking about are essentially marginal in light of the potential.
The point has been made—it cannot be made enough—that before defence gets more money, it needs to spend its own money better. I echo the points made about the importance of procurement reform. The Public Accounts Committee report is damning. There is a £17 billion deficit between the MOD’s budget and its official capability requirements, which is perhaps an underestimate, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford said, given how these numbers are calculated. I am concerned about that.
To make a quick point in passing, I would be interested in the Minister’s thoughts when he winds up about the nuclear budget. There is real concern about how Trident’s replacement will be accounted for. There is a danger that if that is just part of general MOD capital expenditure, it could end up cannibalising conventional weapons. It is important, given the long-standing tradition, that we keep nuclear separate from conventional weapons budgets.
Dame Meg Hillier
Given what the hon. Gentleman has just said, does he agree that it would be good to have tighter scrutiny of that spending, which might mean a new system set up so that we can look at sensitive matters?
Danny Kruger
I defer to those on the Front Bench on what transparency is appropriate, but I recognise the point made in the hon. Lady’s Committee’s report and I think in the Defence Committee report about the difficulty of getting the information that the Committees need to do their work. I recognise that nuclear is identified as a separate line in the budget and is protected in theory, but I am concerned about what might be a marginal increase in this enormous budget. It is around a quarter of our total defence spending. If that increases even marginally and the shortfall has to be made up from our conventional defence budget, that entails a significant reduction in that conventional spending, which is so important at the present time.
Mr Francois
According to the MOD’s own figures in the latest supplementary estimates, the amount we are spending on what it calls the defence nuclear enterprise is now gusting towards 20%. Everything my hon. Friend says about the risk of that gradually eating everything else is entirely correct.
Danny Kruger
I thank my right hon. Friend for that. If we managed to get the genuine increase in defence spending that is needed, the question then arises of how to spend that and where the money should go. I say this not just on behalf of the 20,000 or so defence personnel in Wiltshire, but because it is the right thing to do: we need to put people first. I recognise that there has been a significant step change in the doctrine of defence policy in recent years towards the recognition that an army is fundamentally about its people, and I respect that. The fact is, probably because of the many decades of disinvestment, that we have problems of low morale, low pay, often poor housing and a shoestring training budget, all of which contribute to the recruitment crisis we have in the armed forces that my right hon. Friend mentioned.
The PAC report makes clear that we are losing people faster than we can recruit them, and that is entirely unacceptable. We have to improve recruitment. The Public Accounts Committee heard that for every five people recruited to the armed services, eight are leaving. That is a national security crisis. It is not just a problem for recruitment, but a profound security risk.
I recognise the point that the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) made that we have had too many reviews, so I hesitate to use the word—if I could think of another word, I would use it—but we need a quick total review of the people issue in our armed forces. It could be done quickly and all it probably entails is an amalgamation of all the work done by others, but I would like to see that with a great degree of urgency. It should look at recruitment, terms and conditions, families—crucially—and onward progression in all three services, so that we can with the urgency required turn around the recruitment crisis.
Having made the general point about the importance of investment in people, I come quickly to the major services of the armed forces, and first is the Navy. It is important that we invest in all five domains, including in the grey zone and sub-threshold activity, which are so important. Our principal specialism in the United Kingdom historically and now remains our sea power. It is a good thing we are moving towards a maritime strategy. I recognise that is the Government’s priority, and I say that as a representative of a land-locked county with all these soldiers in it. Nevertheless, we need significant investment in the Navy. We would all like to see these things, but let us actually do it and have more submarines, more escorts and more minesweepers. We need seabed warfare vessels. On that point, I call the House’s attention to a report from Policy Exchange a month or so ago talking about western approaches and the significant threat we face in these islands and across Europe to undersea infrastructure. It is fundamentally our responsibility on behalf of Europe to protect that.
I have mentioned the new model army and the New Bletchley report, and I would like to see a real commitment to a reformed and modernised Army. We have to recognise the point made by the former Chief of the Defence Staff Nick Carter when he said that the Army is the weakest of the three services. That is a sad state of affairs. I suppose one has to be the weakest; I am sorry it is the Army. There are big questions over our ability to field a division in Europe, as promised to NATO. According to a senior US officer, the UK cannot even be called a tier 1 power. I understand that the Committees were told by a former commander of joint forces command that our Army will not be ready to fulfil its NATO commitments until the early 1930s. Indeed, that was the assumption of the integrated review, so in a we are sense back to the 10-year rule, which is not how things should be. [Interruption.] Did I say 1930s?
Danny Kruger
I think we are up to speed on that— the 2030s.
The case for investment in the Army is obvious, and the good news is that it is easier, quicker and cheaper to refit and upscale the Army than it is the Navy, because kit is smaller and cheaper. However, we do not just need the same Army but a bigger one. We need a medium-sized Army that is bespoke for the job that will be done—the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) made the right point about the sort of Army we need. The Army needs, in a resonant phrase, to defend these islands, but it also needs to act in partnership with other services and with our allies in the west. We do not need another great new major continental army such as the one the Poles are building. We need a rapid reaction joint expeditionary force that is agile, mobile, and able to do the job that is required, in partnership with our allies.
On the sphere of operations, ultimately our commitments need to reflect the threats we face. In a sense, those are classified, and I recognise the challenge that the Committees have had in identifying what our capabilities are, and the tasks that Ministers set for them, because we cannot always know exactly what those threats are, with defence planning assumptions now classified. Nevertheless, I echo a point made by the right hon. Member for North Durham: I am delighted about AUKUS, which is a tremendous step forward in our international role and a great thing for British security. I am not averse to those global arrangements—they are absolutely right. I loved the deployment of the Queen Elizabeth and the carrier strike group to Japan.
Fundamentally, however, we are, and should be, committed to the defence of the Euro-Atlantic area, and for that purpose we must restore the mass of our own armed forces and Army. That means growing our capabilities here at home. We need more regulars, and to get back towards having 80,000 or 90,000 regular forces. We must significantly grow the reserve force because 30,000 is not enough, even if that figure of 30,000 is real, which I do not believe it is. The campaign to grow our reserves is necessary not just for its own sake, but as a great exercise in communication to the public about the imperative for us all to step up and play our role in the defence of our country.
There is a great deal of concern, which I think is misplaced, about the attitude of the British people to fighting. We had that in the 1930s, with lots of people saying that the British would not fight, but of course they would, of course they did, and of course they will if they have to answer their country’s call. That is young people in particular. They will do it with irony, and certainly with memes, but they will do it and sign up if they need to. This is not an abstraction. We have already seen in the past year or two what war in our region means. It means inflation—imagine that tenfold if a war breaks out in which our country is directly involved—and cyber-attacks on a terrible scale.
We are now at a turning point, as so many Members have said, and it is time for all of us as a country to step up. There is an opportunity and an imperative for us to strengthen our nation. It is about industrial resilience and our own food supply; it is about our supply chains, and our steel and manufacturing capacity. There is a huge opportunity, as the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) said, in the importance of the industrial supply chain. This is a time for us all to do what is needed.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. I am getting concerned because although I do not have a problem with interventions, some of the speeches have been not 13 minutes but 16 minutes, and that means we then have pressure for the Front-Bench speeches to be shorter than we hope them to be. If colleagues take interventions, I ask them to please still try to keep within the limit. Another debate is due to start at 3 o’clock, and I must get as near to that as I possibly can.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
I echo the positive words that have been spoken already this afternoon about the reports from the Public Accounts and Defence Committees, and it is timely that we get all this out into the open. In the Budget earlier this month, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that defence spending “will rise to 2.5% as soon as economic conditions allow.”—[Official Report, 6 March 2024; Vol. 746, c. 846.]
What indications has the Minister had from the Prime Minister and Chancellor about when economic conditions might allow? What are the conditions that might allow, and when might they be met?
This week the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), gave an interview to the i newspaper, in which she described “big nasties” facing public spending. She talked about “slow politics”, where decisions are made with a long-term strategic perspective at the forefront. That is especially pertinent when it comes to defence capabilities. As we are entering a period of global uncertainty, it is concerning to read in the PAC report that there are glaring discrepancies around how spending is identified for single services. For example, the report highlights the way that planned spending is reported. Whereas the Royal Navy includes all costs in its plans, creating an on-paper deficit of more than £15 billion, the Army includes only what estimates it can afford, resulting in a running deficit of about £1.2 billion. Had the Army followed the same procedures as the Royal Navy, its deficit would soar to over £13 billion. Such inconsistency in budget reporting is, I am sure, not a deliberate lack of transparency, but it can bring about distrust when it comes to planned defence spending.
The Defence Committee’s “Ready for War?” report stresses the need to replenish our much depleted munitions stockpiles. It highlights that there has been a “hollowing out” over the past 14 years—we have heard that talked about, including from the Dispatch Boxes—but that has been brought into sharp relief by an emboldened, aggressive, nationalist Russian state. If we cannot co-ordinate defence spending in a clear manner, we risk weakening the perception of our defence capabilities. The issue of the budget deficit goes further, with the Committee highlighting a £16.9 billion deficit over 10 years, due in part to rising inflation. We know that defence inflation is greater than other measures of inflation, partly because a lot of our defence equipment is imported from overseas, particularly the United States.
There is a 62% increase in spending on the Defence Nuclear Organisation, and the report states that defence spending would need to increase to around 2.5% of GDP to plug that gap. Ministers are entrenching the uncertainty around budget planning, meaning that important projects risk being deprioritised. At present, the defence budget is thought to be about 2.1%, and some measures try to include our defence commitment to Ukraine, so that it might rise to 2.25%. The MOD said that the difference between 2.25% and 2.5% of GDP is about £6 billion or £7 billion. There are important reasons why that increase might be necessary. Although we spend 2.1% on defence as a whole, around 6% of that goes to fund our nuclear capabilities. Prior to 2010, the UK’s strategic nuclear deterrent was kept out of Ministry of Defence spending measures and held centrally, whereas now it is all included in the defence budget, meaning that our conventional spending has seen a great deal of squeeze over the last decade-plus.
By failing to invest in our armed forces over a sustained period, we have heard cries of operational readiness being affected, and people crying about overstretch. I recall that word from my own service about 20 years ago, when people were declaring that the armed forces were running hot and that they were overstretched. That is why it is essential for Governments to know how much they can commit their armed forces. That comes back to what we used to call the defence planning assumptions about how many operational overseas deployments might take place simultaneously. Up until 2015, those defence planning assumptions were published, but since 2015 they have not been published and have been very much held behind a cloak. I see no real reason from a security perspective or from the point of view of what our adversaries might think, for keeping those withheld. As was pointed out to the Defence Committee, our adversaries probably know our capabilities well, and they will be analysing our intentions. It is arguably better to be transparent about those defence planning assumptions if that means a reduction in the call on the armed forces by other Departments of Government.
In recent years, we have seen that a lot, with Departments having sought to use the armed forces for military aid to the civil authorities, whether for ambulance strikes or to cover for the fire service. The armed forces have been pulled in for those roles and taken away from training, which is essential to their mission. Transparency is very much required.
When that is combined with the persistent issues of repeated cuts and reductions in personnel, our armed forces could be in an even more challenging place than is currently suggested. We really need to sort this out. The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) referred to the recent speech by the Secretary of State for Defence about moving from a post-war period to a pre-war era. I was alarmed to hear that speech. I am an advocate for the Roosevelt phrase,
“speak softly and carry a big stick”.
In talking about moving from post-war to pre-war, I felt that he was doing quite the reverse: investing no new money in defence while speaking with a rather loud mouth.
It strikes me that the Defence Secretary is not doing enough to advocate for spending in private, because he is doing it in public through leaked letters to the Chancellor, as reported in The Daily Telegraph. His predecessor, the right hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace), did the honourable and decent thing by stepping away from his Cabinet role when he could no longer tolerate Cabinet collective responsibility in relation to defence spending.
Mr Kevan Jones
Does the hon. Member agree that the strategy the Defence Secretary is employing has nothing to do with defence but is possibly to do with a future bid to become leader of the Conservative party?
Richard Foord
I grateful to the right hon. Member. While I will not speculate on the Defence Secretary’s intentions, I certainly think that has had the effect of putting him out of step with the Chancellor and the Prime Minister such that he is no longer engaged in collective responsibility.
It seems to me that by talking up increases in the defence budget in cash terms rather than real terms, the Government are hiding behind recent high inflation. I will give the House a specific example. Following the publication of the PAC report on 8 March, the Prime Minister’s spokesperson, who was asked to respond to that report, replied:
“We are ensuring that we have the largest defence budget in history”.
That is so much spin as to be like a vortex—it is way off to suggest that. As we heard from the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), during the cold war, defence spending was north of 6% of GDP. I am not advocating for defence spending to return to anything like those levels, because I recognise that we were dealing then with an eastern Europe in the grips of Russia and very much surrounded by and part of the Warsaw pact, with all its contributions assisting the Warsaw pact inventory, whereas now our spending is very much contributing to NATO’s defence of Europe and the deterrence of Moscow. I would understand the phrase “as soon as economic conditions allow” if we were talking about an absolute cost—for example, the cost of a frigate or a platform, with a price tag—but we are not; we are talking about a relative cost. The Government need to set out what those economic conditions are.
Finally, I turn to land. As we have heard rehearsed in the House many times, the Army is being reduced from 82,500 to 73,000 soldiers. Earlier, Mr Deputy Speaker talked about the considerable expertise in this place, but the greatest defence experience is probably in the other place. Those who rose to the top of their professions in the armed forces now speak with the greatest wisdom on defence. I would therefore like to quote from some of them, starting with three former Chiefs of the General Staff.
In January, Lord Richard Dannatt said:
“The bottom line is numbers do matter… It is a fact that at 73,000 the British Army has never been smaller”.
In March 2021, Lord David Richards said that “mass still matters”. In May 2022, General Sir Nick Carter said that
“in the order of 80,000”
soldiers are required to ensure that the UK could field a full division as part of a combined NATO force.
Although the current Chief of the General Staff is somewhat restricted in what he can say while in post, in June 2022 he said that the UK was facing a “1937 moment”, and that
“it would be perverse if the CGS was advocating reducing the size of the Army as a land war rages in Europe”.
I firmly advocate for the Army to be restored to that 83,000 figure. When will those economic conditions be met so that we might see 2.5% spent on defence?
Sir Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin) for leading the debate with his report. On the first Thursday back in January 2022, six weeks before Russia further invaded Ukraine, many hon. Members currently in the Chamber were here for a debate about the need to increase defence spending. There was an argument about whether we were in a cold war scenario, which came back to the same thing: it is all very well talking about increasing spending, but where do the threats lie?
The mea culpa from my point of view is that, right up to 22 February 2022, I was saying that I did not believe Putin was going to invade Ukraine. I thought he was testing the borders and seeing where the strengths were. That day, I learned the important lesson that politicians often use the word “think” when they should be using “hope”. Much of the debate is based around what we want to see happen and what we hope will happen.
We may say, “I think perhaps we don’t need to expand the military as much as that. Perhaps the money is better off being spent elsewhere. Are we really going to go nuclear? Is he really going to do that?” We talk about development in the High North and maritime. Perhaps we need more Navy, because that will become a much more critical area in our security, our trade and our defence, but we hear the same thing: it is highly unlikely that there will be a surface warfare battle. Well, nobody thought there would be a tank battle in Europe. Since the second world war, nobody thought there would be an armoured vehicle and troop battle with trench warfare in Europe again, but that has happened.
I have been asked recently, “Are we going to have world war three?” It is an interesting question. How do we define world war three in the 21st century? Will it be the nuclear armageddon that people think? I do not believe that—I will come back to that. Will it be several instances of wars and armed conflicts in several areas that affect our country directly? Yes, and I believe that is where the world is moving to, especially when we look at the supply chains around the world. That affects not just this country, and it will lead to other investments having to be made.
There is a famine taking place in Sudan because of what is happening in the Red sea, where there is a reduction in supplies getting through. When these events take place, they have consequences in many areas of the world. We can talk about whether there is a world war and whether we will be involved, but we are—we are in the Red sea and we are giving support to Ukraine and other areas, which is building up.
We should not look at Ukraine as an individual thing that Putin is talking about and that ridiculous interview he did with Tucker Carlson in which he said, “Well, I haven’t got any intentions to invade anywhere else.” He literally wrote it down in July 2021. It takes about half an hour to read, and he lays it out line by line—“Not only do we need to rebuild the Russian Empire, but we need to reunite the historic Russian-speaking people”. We heard all of this in another book 100 years earlier, and we all know where that led, so we all know the consequences of us not preparing for it.
Something about NATO has been forgotten and overlooked. Everybody talks about article 5—that an attack on one is an attack on another, and we come to the rescue—but everybody forgets article 3, which says that members must be able to defend their borders first and foremost. There are only 14 articles in the actually very well-written Washington treaty, and article 3 makes it clear that members have to be able to defend their borders and that article 5 is a reinforcement that can take up to three weeks to arrive.
Do we believe that if Putin invades the Baltic states, that is where the effect on NATO will be? That would be tactically daft of Putin. It is more likely, if he decides to invade NATO territory, that he will want to tie all the NATO allies up to start with. There is good news and bad news. There is good news in what China has said to Putin because of their trade with India, South America and southern Africa. The Chinese especially have made it crystal clear that if Putin was even to demonstrate his ability to use a nuclear weapon—say, in the middle of the Black sea—they would say, “That’s it, we’re gone; we are not dealing with you.” That has probably taken the nuclear weapon issue off the table, especially with strategic nuclear weapons.
By the way, I do not want the House to get excited and think I am saying that we do not need to renew Trident, because there are still plenty of places around the world that are pushing that territory. As we always come back to, Trident is a deterrent weapon; it is not a weapon to be used. If it were to be launched, quite frankly we would not be arguing about it anyway. This does mean that we are in a far weaker position if nuclear is off the table, because we know, and Putin knows—he is doing it right now—that he can outproduce us in shells, tanks and people. Russia is paying €2,000 a month to people coming in from the far-flung areas of the country. People from some of these places do not earn that in a year. They have no shortage of personnel or cash.
Therefore, we have to start being honest with our questions. Do we need to build more capital equipment? Do we need more personnel? Yes, we do need more capital equipment, and we are going down that route, but we also need the revenue budgets to run that. To follow the fiscal rules and say “Look how much money we are putting into defence” is great, but it has to be capital, because they have not given the revenue. It is a case of: “Let’s line up all our shiny ships, but we can’t fuel them, maintain them or crew them.” It is the same in the Army and the Air Force. There must be a fundamental change at the Treasury in how the money is spent.
As the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) said, let us have some honesty in this Chamber. We can sit here and say, “We need to go to 2.5% or 3%, or maybe 4% or 5%.” What Government and which politician will stand up in this House and say, “That 3% reduction in GDP since the end of the cold war has gone into the health service and the Department for Work and Pensions, so we will cut the health service and DWP by 3% to invest in defence”? Who will stand up here and say that? Who will put that in their manifesto? Let us not pretend that that will happen, but the money does need to be spent more efficiently.
My hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Procurement has done an excellent job with the integrated procurement model, which talks about things that he has worked on for a long time, I believe—for example, spiral development. We are very fond of talking about where we were in the 1920s and 1930s, but I want to take us back even further, to the 1910s, when the Dreadnought model was brought out. HMS Dreadnought was the most incredible ship ever built in terms of firepower, but it hit the reset button by making every other ship irrelevant. It could sink all of them, so there was an arms race. Within eight years, HMS Dreadnought was useless. HMS Iron Duke, which was still a Dreadnought class, was a totally different ship, but it had been part of the design process as it went on. Bear in mind that we were still only producing four Dreadnought battleships a year when we were chucking all our efforts in leading up to 1914 and beyond.
I recently spoke at a dinner, and a young person in their early 20s asked me, “What do you think about this comment from General Sanders about conscription? Because there’s no way I would be conscripted to go and fight for this country. Why should I bother? I am not going out to get killed. It’s not worth it. You spend all this money and waste money there. What are you offering me? It’s not worth it.” I said, “Well the problem is that you are looking at this in the society you live in today. If you are going to get conscripted, it is because our cities will lay in rubble. You only have to look at Kyiv. Forget wanting to sit at home and watch Netflix or play Xbox or do whatever you want, there is no electricity. There’s no water. There’s no gas or heating. There is starvation.” That is happening in Europe today.
How does one stop that happening? The word is deterrent. I have never met senior military personnel who are not at heart pacifists. They understand what warfare means. They understand the death and destruction that it brings and the decades it takes to recover. They do not want to go to war. I have never met anybody in the military who wants to go to war. This all takes investment. The honest fact that we are not going to cut health services or the DWP—some of our biggest spending budgets—and spend the money on defence means that we have to work with what we have. Yes, we can grow the economy and take more tax revenue. We can do all that, but that has not really happened in the 21st century. The 21st century has roughly been 50/50 between the Government and the Opposition. Even when the economy has grown, it has been around the margins. There has to be an honest conversation.
The procurement strategy my hon. Friend the Minister has produced is the right way forward. We are aware of the costs. I will say one more thing, almost directly contradicting myself. The war in Ukraine has shattered its economy. Forget the spending to fight the war; the loss in GDP of being able run an economy and export when at war is significantly bigger than an increase of 2% or 3%. Be under no illusion: if Putin wants to invade NATO territory, it will not be tanks rolling over the line up in the Baltics or maybe in east Poland, and we will have to go out there; it will be a full-scale NATO attack, and we will have to work out what we do.
The best way we can stop that is to make sure we have the deterrent. Our nuclear deterrent has always been valuable because they have no idea when or where we would strike back from. That has made it a useless weapon to use, but we have to have that weapon. If we say that is cancelled out, because of the attitude of China and Russian allies towards Russia were it to use one, then we have to accept that our conventional weapons are not going to counterbalance Russia and what is happening.
Nobody in this Chamber, in the military, at the MOD or in Europe, and probably anywhere in the western world, wants to go to war and see death and destruction on the scale we are seeing in too many areas of the world. We see famine and humanitarian crises taking place. Yes, we are going to have to spend more money, but we need to spend it more efficiently, and we need to make sure that when the increases come they will be used effectively. We need to remember that this is an investment so that we do not have to use the deterrent. If we do not have it, we will have to end up using something we do not actually have.
George Galloway (Rochdale) (WPB)
On that surreal note, let me quote Rudyard Kipling:
“We don’t want to fight, but by jingo if we do,
We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men, we’ve got the money too!”
There is plenty of jingo, but the ships, the men and the money are more difficult to find. I genuinely hope that some of the fantasy talk in this debate is widely seen by the general public. It was a Gilbert and Sullivan performance as Members first conceded that our weaknesses are such that we had to conceal the extent of them in the report—that is what the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) said in an intervention.
George Galloway
No, I will not. I am mindful of Madam Deputy Speaker’s injunction that she is fast running out of time, and I do not intend to take my whole 13 minutes. The right hon. Member should not worry—I will make sure that people see his performance. He said that we need to conceal the extent of our weakness, then he adumbrated our weakness. If that was not our total weakness—if there are weaknesses that he concealed from that list—I ask myself, why on earth are these people pirouetting in this Parliament about which enemy they are going fight, and in which theatre of war?
Mr Francois
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will keep this brief. For the record, the gentleman has traduced me. He has said directly the opposite of what I actually said, as Hansard will show.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that point of order, which he has used to make his point. Let us return to George Galloway.
George Galloway
Pomposity, but not a point of order. The right hon. Gentleman said that we were careful to conceal some of our weakness, and then he adumbrated those weaknesses. If there are more that he concealed, we are in very big trouble. My point is this: we haven’t the men, we haven’t the ships and we haven’t the money, so why are we picking enemies? I have lost count, in the course of the debate, of the number that we are either already fighting or may have to get ready to fight. That is the absurd “Alice in Wonderland” nature of this debate.
We cannot retain even the low numbers of people we recruit. Why? We ought to know why: the lions do not much like the look of the donkeys who lead them into war after war, which they later disown and admit should never have been fought. You know to what I refer, Madam Deputy Speaker. I had a debate at the Oxford Union; the then Defence Secretary ran away and did not turn up. I had to deal with his subordinates, but I made the point there. I was a boy soldier: Royal Artillery Battery 2, Army Cadet Force. I trained with the Royal Marines for weeks in Poole, in Dorset. I am in no sense a pacifist. I want to defend our country. I want our soldiers to be properly paid, properly housed, properly clad, properly trained and properly armed.
I have picked up Tommy Atkins, stricken with addiction, from Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester, just out of Strangeways, addicted to Spice and abandoned by the politicians who gayly sent him off to one needless, pointless, fruitless war after another. Don’t come here and say you’re standing up for Tommy Atkins. The donkeys who sent him to wars that even the donkeys now disavow are the reason that people do not join our armed forces. They do not trust those people over there not to send them to another Iraq or Afghanistan, and they are right not to trust them.
The truth is that our country is in very real danger of falling into the same trap as Mussolini: going around the world, threatening people with Germany’s army. Our politicians go around the world threatening people with America’s army, but there is a big change coming, and they do not like it on either side of the aisle. President Trump is coming back in November, and he does not much fancy their NATO. He does not intend to send American soldiers to die for Kupiansk or for the Zelensky regime in Kyiv. He has no intention whatever of continuing its war in Ukraine.
I heard a senior Member of the House say, “If America withdraws from NATO, we will have to increase our contribution to 5%, 6% or maybe 7% of GDP.” Do these people seriously imagine that they will continue in NATO without the United States of America? What kind of NATO would it be—it really would be Gilbert and Sullivan—unless we devote not £50 billion of our public treasure but hundreds of billions on defence? Have any of these people seen the state of the public realm in Britain? Have they seen the state of the national health service? Have they seen the state of our streets, public buildings and public transport? Have they seen the wage packets earned in this country? Have they seen pensioner poverty and fuel poverty in action? Have they met people who have to choose between eating and heating? These fools want to spend not £50 billion but hundreds of billions on weapons of war, which we will fight with an Army that could fit into Villa Park—70,000 soldiers can fit into a single football stadium.
For some time, I was the Member of Parliament for a naval shipbuilding yard, Yarrow’s on the Clyde—producers of excellence. I wrestled—not physically—with our late and lamented friend Alan Clark when he was the Procurement Minister, and I won. I got all five of the Type 23s procured at that time. I want us to have a good Navy, and a good Army, but not so we can sail it to bombard the natives in the Red sea or send a Gilbert and Sullivan squadron to the South China sea, like a peashooter firing at an elephant—or a whale in the case in the Chinese navy. I do not want us to send our 70,000 soldiers and our aircraft carriers that break down and have to be glued together, or our destroyers that crash into each other in the Solent.
I do not want us to pretend that we are a Rudyard Kipling-era imperial power. That is the key problem. Some of these people still think that we are in the 19th century and can send gunboats up the Yangtze and not have them sunk, and that the natives in Yemen are the natives we used to push around for a century or more. The empire strikes back, and the empire is bigger than us now. We owned India; now the Indians own us. Shall I take that metaphor further? There is an idea that those in this little country of ours—this dear green place, with all its problems and enfeeblement caused by our economic decline and the rapid and massive economic advance of others—are still in a position to stand in this Parliament making dispensations to this battleground or that, or that we can still slice our diminishing national wealth in a way that allows us to pretend to be an imperial power.
I have time only for one last point. I was startled by the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, when she told us that £2 billion of our defence budget is going on foreign exchange costs, meaning that not only are we spending 50 billion of British taxpayers’ pounds, but that we are spending it in foreign countries. We are allowing foreign companies and yards to build our defence infrastructure in a way, as the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) pointed out, that France would never dream of doing. Whatever we are going to spend, spend it in Britain, spend it in British yards, spend it in British factories. You’ll save £2 billion in foreign exchange costs at the very least.
Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)
I genuinely will not take 13 minutes for my contribution, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Our armed forces give it their all every single day for our protection. Their level of commitment and courage is, sadly, not matched by this Government. Worse, as our Defence Committee report and the reports from the Public Accounts Committee chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) show, the Government have presided over reductions in personnel, depletion of kit and delays in new capabilities. When it comes to the biggest threat of all, war, there is not a single service that is fully ready. This did not happen overnight. This is a culmination of, to use the words of the former Defence Secretary, the right hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace), the “hollowing out” of our forces over the last 14 years. The new Defence Secretary rightly said that we are in a pre-war world. But to acknowledge that and then do nothing about it is negligent.
The world is in turmoil: war in Ukraine, conflict in the middle east, fear of conflict in the Indo-Pacific, an aggressive Russia and an unpredictable China, as well as our armed forces responding to humanitarian missions and MACA—military aid to the civil authorities—requests, as they did throughout the pandemic. This all makes a pre-war footing all the more urgent. This is not an exhaustive list, but when it comes to our Royal Navy there are delays to the Type 26 frigates, issues with the availability of SSNs, delays to Dreadnought and an over-reliance on RFA Fort Victoria. Our Royal Air Force has a shortfall in fixed-wing transport aircraft numbers, insufficient numbers of maritime patrol aircraft and Wedgetail airborne early warning systems, a lack of air-to-air refuelling, and a lack of ground-based air defence systems or an anti-ballistic missile capability. Our Army lacks infantry fighting vehicles, multiple launch rocket systems, Challenger tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.
We have rightly committed ammunition to Ukraine, but the £1.95 billion announced to replenish stockpiles was not ringfenced. We have heard that the Ministry of Defence is potentially using it to help offset funding shortfalls, instead of using it to restore our warfighting ability. Our lack of industrial capacity is also causing problems with replenishment in particular, as many companies, both at prime and sub-prime level, are facing challenges in scaling up. A failure to address supply chain issues represents a significant risk to production. As the PAC report from my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch on the MOD’s equipment plan found, there is no credible Government plan to deliver the desired military capabilities.
As for our personnel, the Haythornthwaite review in 2022 found a net outflow of 4,660 per year from our armed forces. There are significant pinch points in cyber, digital and AI skills. Those who serve in our forces are exceptional people, but they are constantly being asked to do more with less. The result has been significantly lower morale, with recruitment and retention issues across our services and across the reserves. Our Defence Committee report notes:
“Either the Ministry of Defence must be fully funded to engage in operations whilst also developing warfighting readiness; or the Government must reduce the operational burden on the Armed Forces.”
These are difficult decisions to make, but it is obvious that the Government are not going to make them as they are limping towards electoral oblivion. Frustratingly, the Government hindered our inquiry considerably by not sharing with us the information they hold on readiness—information that used to be available. Worse still, they were unable to explain to us why this information has become classified. Bearing in mind that our allies and countries at greater risk than us share theirs, it is fair to conclude that the reason the information is not being shared is because readiness levels are far worse than even we conclude in our report.
Our conclusion, bluntly speaking, is that we are not ready for war. The recent Budget saw no increase for defence, and that is after the cuts referred to by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). Just this week, ex-defence and security chiefs said we must prepare genuinely for war. But we do not have the personnel or the kit to be ready for war. Far worse than that, we do not have the right Government in place to be ready for it either.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Before I call the SNP Front-Bench spokesperson, let me just say that the Front-Bench contributions in this debate are longer than normal, but we will be able to finish the debate by 3 o’clock as I had indicated. The SNP will have 10 minutes, the Opposition 15 minutes and the Government 15 minutes.
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
Well, this was a debate that certainly went in directions I never thought it would go.
It is always a privilege to follow the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), who may be in a different party but is a very good friend on the Defence Committee. I commend the report from the Committee, of which I am once again a member. There are a few things we do not agree on, but on the vast majority of issues we do agree. That brings me back to the old Scottish nation’s motto, which is “In Defens”. I am very much akin to that. I also share some of the issues raised by the hon. Member for Rochdale (George Galloway) on how we do not push ourselves into conflicts that are unnecessary. I may come back to that in a few moments.
I want to come back to the points made by the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) on background and family. I have said umpteen times in the Chamber that my brother served in Iraq and had two terms in Afghanistan as a reservist. I will come back to the specific point on people in the armed forces later. The right hon. Gentleman talked about his dad. My dad is 99. I am lucky my dad is still here. He survived the worst aerial bombardment these islands have ever seen. It was only after about 75 years that the Government recognised that it was the worst aerial bombardment the UK had seen during the second world war. Last Wednesday, I was able to attend, as I try to every year, the 83rd commemoration of the Clydebank Blitz, which took place on 13 and 14 March 1941. I also stood at one of the mass graves in Clydebank on Saturday to lay a wreath on behalf of my constituents. I do so with privilege and in honour of our family of survivors.
I want to pick up on three points relating to readiness in terms of people, partnership and position, and how they link critically to the word resilience, which I think I heard some Members mention. The right hon. Members for North Durham (Mr Jones) and for Warley (John Spellar) are probably sick to death of me talking over several years about resilience, but it is inextricably linked to what readiness should be all about. Let me talk about people first and how resilient are the armed forces.
It is a pity that the hon. Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton) cannot be here today—I did tell her that I would mention her today—because she chaired a sub-committee on women in the armed forces, which exposed some of the most profoundly difficult questions and scrutiny in Parliament about recruitment and retention that the armed forces have ever had to face. I hate the term “ordinary ranks”. What does “ordinary” mean—people on the frontline who have to go over the ditch? There is nothing ordinary about that. As I said earlier, my brother did it as a reservist, but the report exposed dreadful questions about women and members of black and ethnic minority communities. Why are we not retaining or even recruiting them? Why, moreover, are young men not wanting to join up? This returns me to the issue of terms and conditions, which I have often talked about.
I remember arguing with a former Chair of the Defence Committee—he is not here, but I see that the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) has turned up—who was also a former Minister. He had said that members of the armed forces were not employees or workers. That may be the case in law, but they still deliver a service. If we want to retain people, it is critically important that we copy what so many of our NATO allies do in recognising the value and worth of members of the forces—whether in the Royal Navy, the Army or even the Royal Air Force—and recognising their rights, one of which is the right to representation. My party and I have always said that we believe the armed forces require a representative body like the Police Federation.
The kingdom of Denmark, for instance, which paid the blood price in Iraq and Afghanistan, has a very robust armed forces representative body. The problem there is not about recruitment, but about how in God’s name you persuade people to leave the armed forces in Denmark, because it is such a good—wait for it—employer. They are still willing to go over the ditch and take up the cudgels on behalf of their country. That brings us to the question of how we should deal with people here in the UK who may be over-reliant on charitable organisations, which, of course, are very well-meaning and committed.
Mr Kevan Jones
I agree with the points that the hon. Gentleman is making, but I think that there must be a real, radical revolution in the way in which the armed forces not only recruit but employ people. The number of 18-year-olds is falling. We are going to need more flexible employment models enabling people to leave, come back in, have career breaks and so forth. Unless we do that, we will not be able to persuade them to join our armed forces.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and I am glad that his party has joined mine—I think; I am not sure whether this is still a Labour manifesto commitment—in recommending the introduction of an armed forces representative body. However, a critical issue is how the skills that already exist can be utilised. I cannot believe that I am going to use the word “emulate” when speaking of the United States, but that flexibility is emulated by the United States and also by many of our other NATO allies.
When it comes to readiness and having people on the frontline in the physical armed forces, I am not going to play the numbers game, because this is a political and philosophical issue. It is about how we retain and recruit. I think that fundamental rights for members of the armed forces should be enshrined in law. They should not need to go to those very well-meaning charitable organisations to receive assistance with housing, with their mental health, and even with their physical health. Members of the Danish armed forces who have suffered an injury do not go to a special unit; they go to a Danish national hospital like every other Danish citizen, because there they will benefit from the delivery of a robust public service.
That, in turn, brings me to the way in which the armed forces and, critically, the Army in particular have been challenged during the pandemic. Some former members of the Defence Committee who are not present today kept going on about the need for the Army to step up to the plate in dealing with resilience. The right hon. Member for North Durham has heard me talk about resilience in Committee. It is not, in my view, the role of the Army to pick up civilian action. During the pandemic, the Army in England and Wales had to do that in respect of the Nightingale hospitals, not just in terms of logistics and design but in terms of the actual physical infrastructure. Why was that? It was because most parts of the NHS procurement processes to build the Nightingale hospitals had been privatised years ago. We had taken a very physical state ownership of that civil structure of resilience and readiness out of the hands of the Government and the NHS and given it to private contractors, who have made billions on the back of it.
Let me give a Scottish example, the Louisa Jordan Hospital. The Army stepped up to the plate in helping with the logistics, but they were not required to build the internal structure of the Louisa Jordan. Most of it was in the Scottish conference centre. That internal structure was built through NHS Scotland procurement, because it was fit for purpose and ready to play its part. When we are talking about people, we should bear in mind that readiness is not just about members of the armed forces; it is also about the larger civilian infrastructure.
The right hon. Member for Warley is not present now, but he and I—along with, I think, the right hon. Member for New Forest East—travelled to Washington some years ago with the Defence Committee. Part of our purpose was to understand where our infrastructure was. How, for example, do we transfer, through partnerships between states—critically, within the continent of Europe —a division, or tanks, across bridges and roads which, since the end of the cold war, are no longer equal in terms of weight or infrastructure? How difficult is it to move a tank from a port to, say, technically, the eastern front if that is required? Partnerships of that kind have been allowed to disappear in the post-cold war era.
However, there are other important partnerships, such as the United Nations with its peacekeeping role. It was disappointing that not only the United Kingdom but other countries have had to pull out of Mali, at the instigation of the Malian Government, in the last couple of years. That peacekeeping role is a crucial part of the infrastructure of maintaining international order grounded in the rule-based system. I was also disappointed by the Government’s decision to postpone, or put into abeyance, their investment and funding for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency in Palestine on the basis of a very small amount of information, or accusation, from the Government of the state of Israel in respect of the conflict in Gaza. I hope that the Government recognise the value and worth of that partnership in trying to quell some of the many big problems that are faced in that part of the world.
I think I have had my 10 minutes, but let me end by saying a little about the European Union in relation to partnership and position. I was glad to hear that the official Opposition may now be considering an improved relationship with the EU. We in the Scottish National party believe it is important to have a mutual defence agreement with the EU. As for the question of position, I am a Euro-Atlanticist, and I think it important for us to reposition ourselves, away from the issues of the Indo-Pacific.
I agree with the hon. Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger) about the nuclear proposition. I think that the hon. Member for Rochdale and I are the only Members present who oppose nuclear weapons, but I think there is general agreement on the need to take the deterrent into another budget heading so that we have a full understanding of what that two-point-whatever percentage of GDP is. I hope that the Government will be able to respond to that in the debate today.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
I started by knocking a glass of water over when I came into the Chamber, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I have finished by doing so.
I thank all Members for their contributions today, but I also thank the armed forces, as we all should, for everything that they do to keep us safe. Our UK armed forces are essential not just to the defence of our nation but to the members of our NATO alliance, and also to our UK role in upholding international law. We respect, as the world does, the professionalism with which they do their job.
I welcome the further AUKUS agreements that that are being signed this week between Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States. This is our most important strategic defence alliance outside NATO. It is so much more than a big submarine building programme. It demands UK national endeavour and UK national leadership, and it has the complete support of the Labour party.
President Putin claimed 88% of all the votes in last week’s Russian poll. It was a total sham of an election, but a serious moment for UK defence. Over the next decade, we will face Putin and an alliance of aggression from autocrats who have contempt for international law, and who squander freely the lives of their own people.
The Chair of the Defence Committee, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin), opened the debate by saying that we should start where all defence debates should start—with the threats that we face. The threats that we face will only increase, which is why we need a new era for defence, why these reports are so important, and why this debate is so important.
Madam Deputy Speaker, before you took the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker said of this debate that it promised to be one of the best informed on all sides, and he was right. The right hon. Member for Horsham brought his experience not just as a former Minister, but as the Chair of the Defence Committee. I pay tribute to him, because we now agree that it is right to move away from competition by default and to see the defence sector as a “critical strategic asset”, as he called it, which is a reflection of the work that he has done.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar) asked the right question: what are we doing to create new industrial capacity in the UK and in collaboration with close allies?
My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) said that she has seen the arguments and excuses, yet no efficiencies arrive. That was captured not just in her report, which is the subject of this debate, but in other reports that her Public Accounts Committee has undertaken into defence procurement since 2019, and in nine National Audit Office reports looking at the same problems.
The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) made a very moving speech about his father’s D-day experience. I particularly enjoyed the emotive part of his speech, where he got stuck into the Government and the MOD.
The hon. Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger) was quite right to say that we are now in a moment of existential risk, because we are not ready to fight the wars that we may face. It is a theme that picked up by the right hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), who said that we should be looking at not just our operational readiness, which is the subject of the Defence Committee’s report, but our strategic readiness. Part of that is about taking responsibility as a nation to develop greater resilience and, interestingly, greater talent, including in our political parties and in this House.
My right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) made a very strong argument for defence plans that are based on reality and on honesty about the UK’s role in the world, and especially the priority that we must give to our role in NATO. He, too, said that we must see defence investment directed first to benefiting the UK’s economy.
The right hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Sir Alec Shelbrooke) has been a Defence Minister too, and he leads the NATO parliamentary delegation from this country. He was right to remind us that for NATO member nations, article 3, on the obligation to defend their own country, is as important and fundamental as article 5, on the obligation to defend each other.
My hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) spoke in some detail about the equipment shortfalls that the Defence Committee’s report lays out, and rightly spelled out the concern that the MOD is covering up the scale of the problems by not providing information to the public or Parliament. That was echoed by the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord), who said that operational planning assumptions, which were published up until 2015, are no longer published.
The hon. Member for Rochdale (George Galloway) was right to talk about the concealment of truth about the state of our armed forces, but in fairness to the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford, that is exactly what the Defence Committee—he played a leading part in producing its report—is arguing the Government are not doing. Defending our people and our allies is not “Alice in Wonderland” or Gilbert and Sullivan; it is what people have a right to expect of their Government and Parliament.
Finally, we heard from the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes), who speaks for the SNP and has great experience on defence. I followed his three P’s, and I was particularly struck by his discussion of people. There is a requirement to do better in recruiting and retaining members of the armed forces. He argued that it is not just about numbers and that our forces must better reflect the diversity of the people they serve to protect.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for making those points, but I would push him on the issue of an armed forces representative body. Is it something that he and his party remain committed to?
John Healey
No, it is not. We have a much better solution, which is to legislate for an independent armed forces commissioner, like there is in Germany. They will be a voice for armed forces personnel and the families who support them, and will report to Parliament, not Ministers. In that way, we can reinforce the accountability of our military to this House and the public, as well as making it more responsive to those who serve. I will come to some points on that, if I may.
I pay tribute to all contributors to this debate, particularly those who are members of the two Committees on whose reports it is based. As they know, there are deep and long-running problems across defence, but I want to marshal my remarks into three main areas of findings in both reports: first, the hollowing out and underfunding of our armed forces; secondly, defence mismanagement and waste; and thirdly, the increasing lack of openness that we have seen recently from the Ministry of Defence.
On hollowing out and underfunding, my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields reminded us that it was the last Defence Secretary, the right hon. Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace), who told this House last January that the armed forces have been “hollowed out and underfunded” over the last 14 years. These reports reinforce that sobering assessment of our UK military power and readiness.
The Defence Committee found that there are
“capability shortfalls and stockpile shortages”
across the forces, that resilience has been undermined by reductions, and that there is a
“crisis in the recruitment and retention of both Regulars and Reserves”.
Our armed forces are
“losing personnel faster than they can recruit them.”
The hollowing out and underfunding is getting worse, not better.
The Minister for Defence Procurement (James Cartlidge)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey
The Minister can have his say later.
The Defence Committee report says that capability gaps are growing, reliance on allies is increasing, and we now have the largest ever deficit in the MOD’s equipment plan, at £16.9 billion. The PAC concluded that there is an “unmistakable deterioration” in the MOD’s financial position.
Like the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford, I have brought along the Red Book. I have studied tables 2.1 and 2.2. The Treasury and the House of Commons Library confirm a reduction in defence budgets, which will be cut by £2.5 billion in cash terms for the next financial year. These are the budgeted baseline figures on which defence can plan, procure, deploy and develop capabilities—not the one-off add-ons for specific purposes, such as nuclear or Ukraine, which are the figures that Ministers too often use to inflate the figures on total spending and disguise the real budgets. This is where the country is left after 14 years of Conservative failure on defence, and the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford said that this is wholly unworthy of a Conservative Government. I say it is wholly unworthy of a British Government.
John Healey
I will not. The Minister has 15 minutes in which to make his point. [Interruption.] Okay, I will give way.
James Cartlidge
I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. I have a specific question: does he support our target of 2.5%?
John Healey
As has been pointed out in this debate, 2.5% is an aspiration for when economic circumstances allow—there is no timetable, no plan and no credibility. The last time this country spent 2.5% of GDP on defence was in 2010, under a Labour Government.
I turn to mismanagement and waste. My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch said that mismanagement and waste runs widely across defence. The PAC report found that only two of the 46 MOD equipment programmes are rated as “highly likely” to be delivered on time, on budget and on quality. Many defence procurement programmes are being delayed and are over budget. Ministers are failing British taxpayers and British troops but, most concerning of all, they have no plan to fix this. My hon. Friend said that one of our major concerns is that the MOD is putting off decisions—serious threats, serious problems and a serious lack of action from the Government to fix them.
The third area I want to mention is transparency. Civilian authority over our UK military involves accountability to elected civilian Ministers and elected Members of this House. Reducing MOD transparency is a theme that runs through both reports. The Defence Committee says it is “unacceptable” and the PAC says the MOD has refused even to publish a full equipment plan this year—that is the Minister’s responsibility—despite
“undertaking the same depth of financial analysis as in previous years.”
That should worry all Members, and it has been a growing concern of mine for some months. Whether it is Royal Navy ships’ days at sea or MACA agreements struck with other Departments, data that had previously been published and released to me is now being withheld. Instead of responding to my questions, Ministers are now saying, “We will write to you instead.” I am currently awaiting 26 letters, some of them dating back as far as December.
There are, of course, legitimate security reasons why some information cannot be released, but there are also obvious political reasons why a Government nearing an election would not want some of this information to be made public.
The Defence Committee expressed an important and clear warning in its report. Threats are increasing, just as concern is increasing about the state of our armed forces not just from the members of these Committees and from Members on both sides of the House but from Ministers, too. The Minister for Security, the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Anne-Marie Trevelyan), and even the Defence Secretary are publicly challenging their own Government’s defence policy in the press. The Defence Secretary is making arguments in the Daily Mail that he failed to win with the Chancellor. I feel for the Minister for Defence Procurement, who is almost the last man standing by the Government’s defence policy.
Labour will always do what is required to defend the country. If we win the confidence of the British people at the next election, our pledge is that Britain will be better defended under Labour. First, we will reinforce the protection of the UK homeland. Secondly, we will ensure that our NATO obligations are met in full. Thirdly, we will make our allies our strategic strength. Fourthly, we will renew the nation’s moral contract with those who serve. And fifthly, we will drive deep reform of defence, and we will direct defence investment first to British jobs and British business. This is how Labour will make our country secure at home and strong abroad. We will consult across the House in doing so because we want our plan to be not just Labour’s plan but Britian’s plan to be better defended in future.
The Minister for Defence Procurement (James Cartlidge)
I am grateful to all hon. and right hon. Members for their contributions, and I thank all those on the Defence Committee and the Public Accounts Committee for their thorough reports on armed forces readiness, defence equipment and inventory management.
I have a lot of time for the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), but I think he said that our armed forces are a gnat on the backside of an elephant.
Mr Kevan Jones
No, I did not. If the Minister had actually listened, what I said is that our contribution in the event of a crisis in the South China sea would be a gnat on the backside of an elephant. That is very different from what the Minister said.
James Cartlidge
I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s clarification. Either way, I think we can all agree that it is important that we understand the extent to which our armed forces are ready and are out there serving the country as we speak.
Our continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent is entering its sixth decade of service, and our armed forces have helped us to become Ukraine’s most front-footed ally. We have trained more than 60,000 Ukrainian military personnel since 2014, and we are delivering more than £7 billion of military aid to Ukraine within our overall aid package worth almost £12 billion. That support is unwavering, with the recent announcement of our latest £2.5 billion package of military support for Ukraine being a £200 million uplift on the previous two years. Beyond our support for Ukraine, our armed forces are participating in every single NATO mission.
Sir Julian Lewis
I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene. I did not apply to speak in this debate because I could not be sure that I would be here at the end. Will he impress upon the House how our aid to Ukraine is vital because, if Ukraine successfully thwarts Russia, all those dread scenarios about an attack on NATO will not happen? Similarly, although President Trump is a worry, it is at least a relief that he has begun to say that, provided Europe does its bit, he will continue with America’s support for NATO, should he be elected.
James Cartlidge
My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The hon. Member for Rochdale (George Galloway) accuses us of imperialism in how we deploy our armed forces, but the whole purpose of our support is precisely to help Ukraine resist the imperialism of the Kremlin that he has shamefully supported while condemning what he calls the “Zelensky regime”. We heard him say it, and it is absolutely shameful.
James Cartlidge
The hon. Gentleman did not give way to anyone so, if he will forgive me, I will continue.
My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) made an excellent point that we have heard a change of tone from Donald Trump in recent days.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
The Minister says it is important to understand how ready our forces are, so can he tell us why key information on readiness is no longer published and why none of it was shared with our Committee?
James Cartlidge
I am happy to engage with the Committee, as I did during the week on artificial intelligence. There will always be a balance to be struck between what we can share and where we have to recognise the sensitivity of defence.
From the High North to the Mediterranean, we are deploying 20,000 service personnel from our Navy, Army and Air Force on the NATO exercise Steadfast Defender, which is one of the alliance’s largest ever training exercises. It is a valuable opportunity to strengthen interoperability between us and our allies.
I am happy to report that, as the right hon. Members for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and for Warley (John Spellar) said, overnight we have had confirmation that a new defence and security co-operation agreement has been signed with Australia, which will make it easier for our armed forces to operate together in each other’s country. It will also help facilitate UK submarine crews to visit Australia as part of AUKUS.
A large number of points have been made in this debate, and I will try to take as many as I can. The Chair of the Defence Committee, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Sir Jeremy Quin), and several others, particularly the right hon. Member for Warley, talked about the importance of industrial resilience, and I totally agree.
The right hon. Member for Warley made an important point about finance. We must not forget the private sector’s role in investing in defence. We have seen commentary on environmental, social and governance, on which he wants to see cross-Government work. I am pleased to confirm that, with my Treasury colleagues, we held a meeting at Rothschild’s in the City to see what more we can do, and I am confident that we will be saying more on this important point about how we make the case for investing in defence as a way of investing in peace.
Mr Francois
On ESG, there have been many references to the second world way today. Is it worth reminding the House and the country that, if we had not had a defence industry building Spitfires and Hurricanes in 1940, this debate would not be taking place? In fact, this place would no longer exist.
James Cartlidge
My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. It shows why I want to see us supporting our sovereign capability, because where the Spitfire was there in the 1930s, we hope that the global combat air programme will be there in the 2030s.
James Cartlidge
As my right hon. Friend has already intervened, I hope he will allow me to make some progress and refer to comments from colleagues.
Obviously, there has been particular debate about spending. The shadow Secretary of State was unable to answer whether Labour would match the figure of 2.5%, but a number of my colleagues wanted us to go further and faster. This point was put well by the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord). The Chair of the Defence Committee and others have suggested that we should look back to the sort of GDP figures in the cold war, although they did not necessarily say that we should go to exactly those amounts. However, as was said by the hon. Gentleman, who I believe was in military intelligence, in those days almost all of eastern Europe was an armed camp full of Soviet divisions, whereas now those countries are in NATO, so the situation has changed profoundly.
As was rightly said by my right hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Sir Alec Shelbrooke)—one of my predecessors as Minister for Defence Procurement—if we increase defence by a significant amount, the money has to come from somewhere. An increase from the current level of about 2.3% to 3% equates to £20 billion, which is not a small amount of taxpayers’ money. Even an increase to 2.5% equates to an extra £6 billion. So it is Government policy to support that but to do so when we believe the economy can support it on a sustained basis.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) made a passionate speech about how there had, in effect, been a cut to defence spending in the Budget, and several other Members said the same. I do not agree, although I accept that there is a debate about it. It is about the difference between the main estimate and the supplementary estimate, and some people have said it is about the inclusion of nuclear. To me, the nuclear deterrent is fundamental to defence, so of course it should be in the defence budget. We are not going to take out GCAP or frigates, and we are certainly not going to take out the nuclear deterrent, which is at the heart of the UK’s defence.
Sir Jeremy Quin
I like a lot of what the Minister is saying. It is right to say that we have, in Poland, Finland and Sweden, allies in NATO that produce great capability in terms of dealing with the threat from Russia, but since 1989 China, now one of the two biggest economies in the world, has gone on to be spending £232 billion alone on defence—and that is just the official number. We also now have a nuclear armed North Korea, with Iran making its way in the same direction. The world picture is darkening. That may not necessarily “directly impact” us, to use the words of other hon. Members, although I think it does, but it has indirect impact on some of our allies and on where they need to place their resources. It is a real concern and we should not forget that.
James Cartlidge
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that. It shows why I have repeatedly said that we need to reform defence procurement because of the need to stay competitive with our adversaries.
I agree with the Chair of the PAC, the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), and my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger), that we cannot just look at what we want to spend and at the future aspiration; we have to look at how we spend the money that we have better. That is why on 28 February I announced our new integrated procurement model, to completely overhaul our approach to acquisition. I said in my speech—and I stand by this—that the current delegated procurement model, under the Levene reforms, has created an inadvertent tendency towards over-programming: as soon as there is financial pressure on the equipment plan, such as we have had through inflation, the single services compete to get their capability on contract. By contrast, the very definition of our integrated approach is pan-defence prioritisation, as we are seeing in practice in our pending munitions plan, which will address many of the concerns of right hon. and hon. Members about getting our industry up to spec in terms of missiles and other key munitions. Let me be clear that such prioritisation would be challenging even if we went to 2.5%, such is the nature of defence.
A particular priority of our new acquisition model, as was referred to by the Chair of the Defence Committee, is spiral development: accepting 60% or 80% of requirements rather than 100% exquisite. The key to that is ramping up our engagement with industry, so we have held far more engagement events with industry at a secret level. Just this week, for example, we have held engagement between the strategic command and industry about cyber and electronic warfare—at a secret level, because we want to empower industrial innovation.
I have also said that exports are a key part of getting our industrial base as resilient as possible. So I am delighted to confirm the overnight news that BAE Systems will partner in Australia to build its nuclear-powered submarines. This is a major moment for AUKUS, and the collective submarine-building will support 7,000 additional British jobs across the programme’s lifespan.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), who this week chaired the Sub-Committee on AI, both rightly stressed the importance of technology. To see that, one need only look at the situation in Ukraine and at the extraordinary propensity of electronic warfare, which underlines how the battle space has changed. So a key part of our system will be about learning the lessons from the frontline as rapidly as possible, as we spiral our own developments in response. We are learning those lessons. For example, as part of its drive to incorporate autonomous platforms flying alongside crewed fighters, the RAF is now progressing to procure drones to overwhelm an adversary’s electronic warfare defences. That underlines an important point: that advantage in future warfare and uncrewed combat, will not necessarily be gained by individual platforms and technologies; it will be their smart integration, across crewed and uncrewed systems, that will enable us to develop a force fit for the future. That is why I believe we need an integrated approach to procurement.
To conclude, the brief snapshot of military exercises that I have outlined today does not do justice to the breadth and reach of our armed forces. They are more than ready. They are out there, deployed all over the world, keeping us safe and defending our interests. Meanwhile, the reforms we have made to procurement will help us adapt to emerging threats and evolving technological possibilities. That is a key lesson from Ukraine and from our Defence Command Paper.
This Government will continue to back our armed forces with record levels of defence spending, an ambitious 10-year equipment plan and by forging a new partnership with industry to co-develop cutting-edge capabilities. It is a plan that will ensure that our defence industrial base is more resilient and our armed forces are better equipped. It is a comprehensive strategy for our national security, and I commend it to the House.
Sir Jeremy Quin
Madam Deputy Speaker, as the shadow Secretary of State said, your predecessor in the Chair at the start of the debate complimented the hon. Members standing, saying that he anticipated the debate would be rich in facts and high in quality. Almost universally, he was absolutely right. It was an excellent debate.
There is an almost universal view, on both sides of the House, that our brilliant armed forces are simply running too hard against all that is demanded of them to meet essential commitments. A war is taking place on our continent. As the Defence Secretary has said, we are in a pre-war phase. Our Select Committees have an essential role to play in highlighting difficult issues, as we have been doing this afternoon. I endorse what the Chairman of the PAC said in relation to finding more ways in which Select Committees can scrutinise the most sensitive of defence programmes. That is important for Parliament and helpful for the Government.
We have to rise to the significant challenges set out in the two reports, on the readiness of the armed forces by the Defence Committee and the equipment plan by the PAC. I welcome what the Minister said about AUKUS. I did not expect him to answer all the questions that were raised in the reports, but he must work on it because I know the Department will work on it. We have our job to do. It is our duty to raise these difficult concerns, and I know both Committees will continue to do so.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the First Report of the Defence Committee, Ready for War?, HC 26, the Eighth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, Improving Defence Inventory Management, HC 66, and the Nineteenth Report of the Committee of Public Accounts, MoD Equipment Plan 2023-33, HC 451.
Food Security
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I will call Philip Dunne to move the motion and will put an advisory 15-minute limit on the clock, which I am sure will be helpful.
Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of food security, including the effects on it of environmental change and of insect decline.
I start by thanking the Liaison Committee and the Backbench Business Committee for granting this debate on food security, as covered in recent reports by the Environmental Audit Committee, the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, and the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee, chaired respectively by myself and my right hon. Friends the Members for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill) and for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark). I look forward to their contributions.
Food security affects us all. We all want enough food to feed ourselves and our families. I declare a particular interest in this area as a food producer myself, having held responsibility for my family farm for over 30 years. Our reports are, we hope, in the broadest sense complementary, in that each Committee recognises threats to the country’s food security and makes recommendations to Government on how to mitigate those threats. It may be hard to imagine the UK not having access to enough food to feed our population, but the truth is that British people have already felt the effects of climate change on our plates. Cold snaps and floods in Spain and Morocco were partly to blame for empty salad shelves in our supermarkets last year. We know that extreme weather events both at home and abroad are likely to become more frequent. Cost of living pressures mean that there are households in this country for which insecure access to food is already a daily reality. I commend colleagues on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee for their work on household food security.
In the Environmental Audit Committee’s inquiry, we looked at how to keep Britons fed in the face of environmental change. What we found is that food production and environmental change are—not to put too fine a point on it—mutually destructive. Climate change and biodiversity loss threaten to undermine not just food production itself, but the whole food system. Colleagues on the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee have drawn attention to a particular aspect of this relationship in their recent report on insect decline and UK food security.
Our global food system is itself one of the biggest drivers of environmental change, contributing to those very factors that undermine food security. In our inquiry, we heard that British farming is responsible for only 0.5% of the UK’s gross domestic product, but 12% of our greenhouse gas emissions. Globally, the food system is responsible for 30% of carbon emissions, but 50% of biodiversity loss.
We framed our findings around three pillars. First, we need to adapt our food and farming system to become more resilient to the effects of climate change and biodiversity loss. Secondly, we must mitigate the impacts of climate change and biodiversity loss on our food system. Thirdly, we must mitigate the damage to the environment that some aspects of our food system may cause.
According to the latest annual statistics of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the UK produced 58% of its own food in 2022 and imported the remaining 42%. My Committee took the view that prioritising, sustaining and improving our dependence on home-grown produce would be key to keeping Britain nourished while protecting the planet. That will be particularly important for foods that are vital for our health but where we currently rely on imports. For example, we currently import 84% of our fruit. We cannot rely on domestic produce alone and even if we did it, would not guarantee food security. We heard that an exclusive focus on producing food here would make us more vulnerable, not less, to extreme weather events such as heatwaves, which are becoming more common not just in other countries, but here in the UK. Food produced here is dependent on the wider global food system. British food still relies on imported fertiliser, pesticide and animal feed.
We know all too well that the global food system does not exist in a vacuum. Health crises, such as the covid pandemic or avian flu; geopolitical crises, such as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the world’s breadbasket; and global supply pinch points, such as the blockage in the Suez canal all affect supply chains, prices and protectionism, and compound the effects of environmental change. We have seen all those things in the course of this Parliament.
When food insecurity is exacerbated by environmental change it can lead to conflict, with devastating consequences. Incidentally, that is why our Committee has just this week launched a new inquiry into the effects of climate change and wider security issues, and I encourage anybody who is interested, including those interested in the impact on food security, to submit evidence by the end of April.
Today, we have published the Government’s response to our report on environmental change and food security, and I wish to thank the Minister and his officials who have engaged with our report. There is much in the response that we welcome, and I would like to focus my remarks this afternoon on some of the responses to the issues that the Committee highlighted in our report.
Under the Agriculture Act 2020, the Government are required to produce a food security assessment every three years. Although that is welcome, in view of the growing risk of volatility of food supplies, we urge the Government in our report to move to an annual publication of its food security report, with which colleagues on the EFRA Committee agree. I welcome the Prime Minister’s recent announcement that the Government will introduce an annual food security index and encourage them to find parliamentary time to put this on to a statutory footing at the earliest opportunity.
We found that one of the easiest wins in shoring up UK food self-sufficiency and mitigating the environmental impacts of our food system is to prevent the food that we have produced from going to waste, so I also welcome the £15 million that the Prime Minister recently announced to stop farm food going to waste. I would appreciate it if the Minister confirmed whether he agrees that the Government’s strategy for preventing food and drink waste, as outlined in their waste prevention programme for England, would be greatly enhanced if it included some targets and timescales for reducing food waste, as was recommended by my Committee.
In response to our report, the Secretary of State committed to taking a decision in the next four to six months on compulsory food waste reporting by businesses. I encourage him to do so before Dissolution. I also encourage the Minister to look at accelerating the regulation of insects as a high-protein source—something that has now been approved by the EU. Insects can be reared on organic waste streams, including food waste, to create a domestic alternative to soy imports for animal feed. It is potentially a tremendous way to have an impact in this area by reducing the millions of tonnes of soy imported for animal feed from countries at risk of deforestation, for example.
One of the key ingredients for food security is healthy soils, which face degradation from increasing droughts, flooding and more intense rainfall brought about by climate change. I welcome the new Government commitment to publish a progress report on the development of a soil health indicator by June. Ensuring that farmers have access to clear information to help to measure the health of their soils, which is a fascinatingly complex subject, is incredibly important, so I am pleased that the Government accepted our recommendation to publish guidance for farmers on soil monitoring. I believe that today the EFRA Committee is publishing the Government response to its report on soil health, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby might refer to in his remarks.
The other key ingredient is water, so I am particularly pleased that the Minister for water is responding to the debate. Food producers need enough of it, and they need it to be clean. My Committee recommended that the Government look holistically at managing water demand so that farmers have enough water in the right place at the right time to be able to feed the nation.
The Government’s commitment to consider more robust water efficiency standards is welcome as a demand control measure, as is their commitment to a third round of the water management grant later this year. We pointed out that the scheme will benefit only a small proportion of farmers in England. Will the Minister state what proportion of farmers he expects to benefit from the water management grant, specifically for establishing on-farm reservoirs and for precision irrigation technology to help British farming to become more water-efficient and better prepared for hotter, drier summers?
Turning briefly to consumption, what we choose to eat can have a big impact on the planet, which clearly affects our future food security. The choices that we make now will affect how much choice we have in the future. In response to our report, the Government pointed to Public Health England’s guidance, the Eatwell Guide, stating:
“Given that most people in the UK do not currently follow a diet in line with government dietary recommendations, improvements in population dietary intakes in line with the Eatwell Guide would go a significant way to meeting sustainability targets.”
All very laudable stuff. What will the Government do to encourage more people to follow this beneficial guidance? Surely if it is well-evidenced advice, the Government should be making more of it.
One landmark piece of work that we are still waiting for is the Government’s land use framework. Time and again, we heard in our inquiry that optimising the way English land is used for all the many demands required of it is the central issue to maintaining food security in a changing environment. When he gave evidence last July, the Minister for Food, Farming and Fisheries promised us that the land use framework, already delayed, would be published by the end of 2023. Sadly, the Government are now telling my Committee that it will be published in 2024. Will the Minister update the House on when in 2024 we can expect the land use framework to be published? Will he undertake, as my Committee recommended, to publish the Government’s methodologies alongside the land use framework when it eventually appears, to give confidence that the framework will contribute both to maintaining food security and to the Government’s net zero and biodiversity targets?
The other hugely relevant innovation brought in by the Government are the environmental land management schemes, or ELMS. The Government described those schemes as being founded on the principle of public money for public goods, but Ministers have declined our reasonable invitation to designate food security as a public good—as the Minister will be aware, the NFU has been calling for that for some time. Will the Minister explain why?
I did not come here today to be all doom and gloom. The environmental challenges facing our food system are worrying, but they are also an opportunity for the best of technological innovation. Our Committee has been keen to examine over this Parliament how technology can help us to address to environmental and climate changes that we face. Modern technology—be it the use of artificial intelligence and drones to pinpoint the use of fertiliser, the use or methane-suppressing food additives, or alternative proteins such as insects, now mostly grown in labs—opens up new ways of producing food while minimising the environmental impact. I am sure that we will hear a lot about that from my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells.
In response to our recommendations on expanding the incentives for farmers to take technological innovations, the Government increased the farming equipment and technology grant to a maximum of £50,000 per farm, and increased its overall budget to £70 million, which I welcome.
The fact that three Select Committees are here to represent recent reports on different aspects of food security shows how important the subject is. We are not alone: the International Development Committee is in the middle on an inquiry on hunger and nutrition. I thank the Liaison Committee for granting time for the debate, and I thank the Government for their response to the Environmental Audit Committee report on environmental change and food security. I commend the report to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee.
Sir Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con)
It is a great pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne), who chairs the Environmental Audit Committee, on which I served for some time. I was pleased that he referred to my Committee’s report on soil health and spoke about baselines on where we are with our soils. A lot of soil testing work has been done in Northern Ireland. As we have heard, although many farmers, particularly arable farmers, are making great strides in testing their soils, none of that data is uploaded to any Government website, and there is very little data on the amount of carbon in our soils and on what we can do to improve the situation.
This is not the first time that this House has debated food security. Perhaps the most contentious issue dominating politics in the 19th century was the balance to be struck between protecting the interests of British farmers and landowners, and the need to provide cheap food to the workers in factories and mills in the industrial revolution. Lord Liverpool introduced the corn laws in 1815, preventing the import of wheat under 80 shillings a quarter, or £20 a tonne. In today’s money, that is double the price that wheat hit after the invasion of Ukraine, although the production stimulated by those protections meant that the actual price of wheat, and hence bread, never reached those dizzy heights.
My own family farm—to which I draw the House’s attention in my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests—started business four years after the repeal of the corn laws by Robert Peel’s Administration in 1846. The workers’ cause, led by Cobden and Bright, had prevailed over the landowners’ vested interests. The era of free trade did not submerge the country under cheap imports from the empire and new world, however. British farmers enjoyed a golden era in the 1870s, helped to some extent by the mass exodus of workers from the prairies to make their fortunes in the 1849 California gold rush, and by the little matter of the American civil war between 1861 and 1865. I make these points because of the parallels we see today, as we move out of a protectionist European Union into a new era of free trade. We should not forget that it was only the submarine blockades of the first and second world wars that brought into sharp focus the need for domestic food production. Two years ago, following Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, we once again learned the same lesson.
We face a whole new challenge today: not only recognising the need for domestically produced food, but striking the right balance between food production and the environmental goals we need to achieve. In many cases, those goals can be delivered together, such as through the sustainable farming incentive, but in others, they are mutually exclusive. Surely, for example, it makes no sense to cover our most productive agricultural land with solar energy arrays. We can, of course, also produce biofuels on our land: wheat is used to make the ethanol in E10 petrol, and vegetable oil is used for diesel engines. However, if that means indirect land use changes in other parts of the world where forest is being cleared to create agricultural land, are we really delivering on our overall greenhouse gas obligations?
Perhaps the most contentious issue is that of the uplands—the moors and dales in places such as North Yorkshire and the Lake district. Henry Dimbleby MBE, who was then lead of the national food strategy for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, gave evidence to my Committee. His report is well worth a read, and I agree with much of its content. It correctly states that the 20% of farmland that is in the uplands contributes only 1% or 2% of the calories produced in this country, and suggests that that land would be better utilised by planting trees to lock up carbon. We have already seen that happening in the west of Scotland, with serious consequences for local communities and employment, and the Welsh Government have approached it in a very crude way: 10% of land is to be planted with trees, regardless of the size and viability of the remaining farming business. Farmers have made their opposition to that policy very clear in Cardiff. I worry when I hear that Labour in Wales is a blueprint for what will happen in England if Labour were to get into power after the election. It is disappointing that there are no Labour Back Benchers in the Chamber today to give me their view of the future. Where are they?
We need to strike the right balance between the need to deliver our carbon obligations and the need to support rural communities, while also protecting the landscapes that merit national park designation. My Committee’s report on food security was launched in July 2022, as a direct response to market volatility following the invasion of Ukraine. It was published in July 2023, and the Government responded in November last year. We also looked at food poverty, extending free school meal provision, and the junk food cycle that contributes to rising obesity levels. We made 18 recommendations, which can be read on pages 45 to 49 of the report by those who wish to do so.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow referred to, we were delighted that the Government have already adopted a number of those recommendations. I was particularly pleased that the Farm to Fork summit will, as we suggested, now be an annual event, alongside the publication of an annual UK food security report. In February, the Government announced that they would publish an annual food security index, in line with our recommendation in paragraph 29 of the report. I look forward to other aspects of that report being taken up, particularly the response to John Shropshire’s independent review of labour shortages.
I have two specific points that I would like to raise. First, do sugar beet and oilseed rape have a future in the UK? This is particularly relevant given the report on pollinators. The science is clear that neonicotinoids have a profound effect on bee behaviour and hive viability when those insects are exposed to them. Sugar beet is susceptible to a number of virus diseases, including virus yellows. The vector for those viruses is the peach potato aphid, Myzus persicae. If an aphid feeds on a beet plant, it transmits the virus in much the same way a mosquito transmits malaria. One bite is enough, and the earlier in the season the infection takes place, the more devastating the effect on the yield. In cold winters, there are fewer over-wintered aphids and the risk is low, but if—as in the current season—the scientists at Rothamsted determine that the risk is high, the use of a neonic seed dressing is sanctioned. If that option were not available, sugar beet production in the UK would quickly become unviable. We would have to import beet sugar from countries that have not banned those seed dressings, or cane sugar from tropical areas.
The point is that bees and other pollinators feed on nectar and pollen. Sugar beet is a biennial, and is harvested before it flowers—I know that DEFRA’s chief scientific adviser is looking at this issue. Is there a risk to bees from soil residues that may be taken up by flowering plants, either as weeds in the sugar beets or in subsequent years? The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee report calls for more research on pesticide accumulation in terrestrial environments.
Oilseed rape—those yellow fields that we see in the spring—has declined by about 60% in the UK. That is because of the cabbage stem flea beetle, which can decimate the crop as it emerges, and the larvae that hatch can also be a problem in the spring. My farm still grows rape, but like many of my neighbours, this could be our last year. Seed dressings only need to work against this pest in the first three or four weeks of drilling in August. The crop does not flower until April or May the following year. What evidence is there that there is a risk to bees more than six months after the chemical seed dressing has been used, and just as importantly, what will be the effect on pollinators if we lose this important source of pollen and nectar early in the season? I know some beekeepers worry, as I do, about the law of intended consequences coming into play. Indeed, in the absence of the neonic seed dressings, my own rape crop was sprayed five times with synthetic pyrethroids in the month or six weeks after drilling. This is not a chemical that is bee-friendly, although farmers obviously take the precaution of spraying when the bees are not flying.
For many, the only real alternative crop to sugar beet or rape would be field beans or combining peas. The economics of growing these profitably are not good. Perhaps the Minister would consider including these crops as stewardship options and eligible for support to reduce our reliance on imported soil, which we know has an effect on the planet globally.
Secondly, what will be the effect of the wet autumn and winter combined with depressed cereal prices on our future food security in the United Kingdom? Around 30% of our wheat crop either did not get drilled last autumn or has rotted in the field. With payment for stewardship options looking increasingly attractive and predictable, does the Minister share my worries that increasing areas of land may be entered into multi-annual options such as overwintered bird food, or pollen and nectar, and that we may be short of wheat in future years, or is there a risk that some schemes may even be over- subscribed? Of course, we have other schemes. There is certainly an offset scheme in my area, where quite a large amount of land has been taken out of production because of a housing developer needing to offset a particular biodiversity.
In conclusion, our farmers produce some of the best- quality food in the world. We need to improve the amount of food we produce here, not least because of the environmental impact of international transport, particularly air freight of out-of-season products. We can also deliver the environmental gains that the environmental land management scheme incentivises, but that loss must not be at the expense of domestic production or result in carbon emissions elsewhere.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Chair of the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee.
Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow my fellow Select Committee Chairs, my right hon. Friends the Members for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) and for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill), who spoke expertly and forensically about some of the results of their inquiries.
One of the pleasures of chairing the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee is that we are spoilt for choice with the range of fascinating subjects into which to inquire, and on which the world’s experts are only too happy to give us tutorials in public for other Members and the wider public to see, so it is very difficult to choose particular subjects from among those we have in mind. We are enthusiastic about most of the subjects we choose, as we are finding new technologies that can make huge positive differences to the world. So it is unusual for the title of an inquiry we have conducted to have a slightly minor key element to it. We talk about “Insect decline”, and that is because the members of my Committee are worried about the regression or backward steps that we have unfortunately seen as a country in biodiversity, particularly with respect to insects, over many decades.
Our report reminds us that insects, and indeed all other invertebrates, are significant not only for their intrinsic importance as part of life on earth and in contributing to the richness of our natural world, but in making an essential contribution to the supply of food, as both my right hon. Friends mentioned. Pollination is the most obvious example, but they also have crucial roles to play in managing crop pests—I think that is a euphemism for consuming crop pests—maintaining the health of the soil and recycling nutrients from waste.
The first thing to say is that although data is surprisingly patchy, such data as we have and its interpretation by experts show that UK insects have indeed been in decline. Whether that is measured by abundance of insects, which is the number of insects found in a particular place; the diversity of insects, which is how many different species are present in a particular place; or the distribution of insects, which is the number of places in which insects can be found, all three measures indicate a decline in insects in the UK.
Even though the UK is one of the best-monitored countries in the world when it comes to insects, with surveys such as the Rothamsted insect survey, which began in 1964 and the UK butterfly monitoring scheme, which started in 1976, the wealth of knowledge that we have tends to be concentrated into relatively few insect groups, principally moths, butterflies, aphids and bees. The bee is a well-studied species, but of the 2,000 species of bee in Europe, more than half have little or no data associated with them to establish their conservation status, whether that is vulnerable, threatened or of least concern. Our report recommends that the funding authorities, such as UK Research and Innovation should give greater attention to long-term monitoring by improving budgets. The UK pollinator monitoring survey has a budget of only £216,000 a year for such a vital piece of longitudinal information. The celebrated Rothamsted insect survey has a budget that equates to £440,000 a year. These foundational studies are much less well-funded than many other studies that we see.
We also recommend that monitoring takes place over the long term, beyond the five-year duration of the typical research grant, and the reasons for that are obvious. If we want to see trends that take account of the year-to-year variations in the climate that we inevitably experience, we need that long-term commitment. As well as maintaining the coverage of the existing surveys, we should look to institute their equivalent covering a wider range of species, including those not currently covered.
Knowing the trends on abundance is one thing—it is important to proceed on the basis of evidence—but we want to halt decline. We have established that there is decline, and we should halt and reverse the decline that has taken place, so policy, as well as data, is important. The national pollinator strategy that many Members in this debate will be familiar with is an excellent model for that, and my Committee strongly commends it, but as I said a few moments ago, pollination and pollinators are not the only contribution that insects and wider invertebrates make to our ecology. We recommend that the approach of the national pollinator strategy should be applied to a national invertebrate strategy, containing accountability targets for non-pollinating, but agriculturally beneficial invertebrates.
Even within species such as the bee, there have been concentrations on honeybees, for reasons that are perhaps understandable. Members should not get me wrong—honey beekeeping is important. I am always grateful to my constituent, Mr Lorne Mitchell, who brings me a jar of his delicious honey from Goudhurst every time he comes to my surgery—long may that continue—but honeybees are not the only thing we should worry about. There are more than 270 wild species of bee in the UK, and they need conserving, as well as promoting the pollination advantages of honeybees. We call on DEFRA—I hope the Minister will respond positively to this—to expand the remit of the National Bee Unit to include a focus on wild bee health as well as honey bees.
In this work, it is not just professional entomologists and researchers in our universities and institutions such as Rothamsted who are important, because amateur entomologists have always played an important role in collecting data for research. Every Member will know about the data collections that we have, in some cases going back many decades and even centuries, from amateur enthusiasts who have meticulously compiled data in particular areas. In some respects that is becoming more popular. In the Big Butterfly Count, over 100,000 citizen scientists, as I think we can call them, take part annually. Some amateur entomologists are real experts. In Tunbridge Wells Dr Ian Beavis is an institution, with an encyclopaedic and profound knowledge of the insects of the High Wealds that surpasses that of any professor. Our Committee believes that funding authorities should be able to allow funding to go to experts of that type, who may not be employed in universities or research institutions, and that they should be able to participate in conferences, publications, and symposia through an outreach of the grants programme to provide opportunities for them.
Both my right hon. Friends referred to many of the agricultural policies that their Committees have looked into and promoted to the Government. My Committee shares the approval that both their Committees give to the statutory targets to halt and reverse species extinction and decline, but we believe they are too narrowly focused. For example, we believe that as well as having a red list of particular species that are at risk of extinction, as we have at the moment, there should also be a baseline list consisting of a wider range of insects and other invertebrates, so that we can monitor progress over time against those baselines, sometimes even before species become a cause for concern.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby spoke about the role of pesticides. That is an important matter and, as he said, we have called for more research to be done. We share the concern of many Members of the House, including those on the Environmental Audit Committee, that the Government are yet to publish a revised national action plan for sustainable pesticide use. That has now been delayed by more than six years since an update was due in February 2018. We believe that an updated plan should include a target for reducing pesticide use in urban and suburban areas, as well as in agricultural settings, following the good practice that we heard in evidence to our inquiry from organisations such as the Royal Horticultural Society about phasing down the use of pesticides in gardens, as it is doing in its important and celebrated garden at Wisley.
Finally, much has been said about stewardship schemes such as the environmental land management scheme that is replacing the EU’s common agricultural policy. There is a big opportunity for the scheme to be beneficial for biodiversity, and specifically as a vehicle for insect decline to be targeted, halted and reversed. We would like integrated pest management, which is a much more holistic and natural way of suppressing pests, to be advanced, tested and deployed as pilots through the early implementation of ELMS. If that is shown to be effective, it should be incorporated as specific actions within ELMS. In promoting biodiversity, not only are we exercising stewardship over our precious natural environment—something every Member of the House is concerned to do—but we can make an important contribution to our economy and national security by ensuring that our supplies of food are more resilient. I look forward to the Minister’s response to the points raised, and to the contributions of other hon. Members.
Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friends the Select Committee Chairs for their excellent reports on food security and for securing the debate. It is such an important topic, and one that I have been passionate about for a long time, so it is right that it is at the forefront of the political agenda.
Our food system now produces an unbelievable array of foods, and we produce almost twice as many calories per person on this planet as we did back in the 1940s, but the food system that we have created has completely dominated planetary ecosystems. If we look at the food system’s impact, we see that it is by far the biggest cause of biodiversity loss, deforestation, water stress, freshwater pollution and destruction of aquatic life—and, together with the energy system, one of the two big causes of climate change.
Food security depends on global peace and stability, and a healthy planet and population. We have been facing a threat to all three of those. We see disruptions to the supply chain caused by the pandemic and risks triggered by the climate emergency and conflicts such as Putin’s war in Ukraine. We know that food shortages lead to political unrest, that famine triggers mass migration, and that climate change and biodiversity loss have led to the depletion of our ecosystem. We need to look again at how we rebuild a strong food system to ensure that everyone has access to nutritious and affordable food; how we can safeguard our countryside and restore the environment; how we can offer jobs to our communities; and how we can reduce the health problems caused by bad diets.
The need to be self-sustaining in fruit and vegetables is becoming even greater. While that is a challenge, domestic food production has significant benefits for both our health and environment by reducing air miles, and for the economy by enabling farmers and small food businesses to thrive. Currently as a country we produce 63% of all the food we need and 73% of the food that we can grow or rear in the UK for all or part of the year. Those figures have changed little in the last 20 years, and they mask some of the self-sufficiency challenges in particular food groups, with only 13% of fresh fruit and 50% of vegetables consumed in the UK being home-grown.
Domestically, the Government have committed to maintaining—not enhancing—the level of food that we produce. We should set our sights higher and look at growing, quite literally, our local food production. Investing in the latest technology and growing systems can extend the availability of British produce for more months of the year. For example, arguably the most iconic product—the British strawberry—has seen yields double in the last 20 years and the season extend to nearly nine months.
We should put more emphasis on localism to provide a food system that is resilient and delivers a vibrant, cyclical local economy. Backing our farmers is so important, which is why I am grateful that the Prime Minister announced measures and funding at the National Farmers Union conference to invest in home-grown opportunities for food innovation and to boost productivity and resilience in the sector.
As consumers, we also have a role to play when considering our buying habits. I recently cooked a community meal where all the vegetables were donated by local producers. One local grower, Derek Hulme, who is a three-times Guinness world record breaking producer of giant vegetables, provided courgettes the size of marrows. While they looked impressive and certainly tasted good, I reflected that they would have failed the size test in the local supermarket, where standardisation of products is valued. Is it not time for us to accept that perfect fruit and vegetables are an artificial construct that we have accepted without question for far too long? That certainly is not beneficial to our health or food security.
We waste huge quantities of natural produce that is perfectly good but not up to the exacting standards required by leading supermarkets. In recent years, we have seen the introduction of a category of “wonky” fruit and veg, which allows less manicured products to find their way to market. But is it not time to welcome the idea that “wonky” does not have to be a separate range? Just as humans come in all shapes and sizes, carrots and potatoes grow in interesting shapes. We must look at our local food supply chain and think more about what we can do to reduce waste.
The current impact of labour shortages has been described as the
“principal factor limiting UK food production”.
This is not just about seasonality but about workers throughout the whole supply chain. It is truly tragic to see food left rotting in fields for the lack of people to help harvest it. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what the Government are doing to prioritise the country’s long-term food security and ensure that the food supply chain has access to sufficient labour, including from overseas, and can realise its growth potential. Failure to do so places at risk the achievement of our self-sufficiency target and broader food security.
As highlighted in the reports we are discussing, food production and environmental improvement can and must go hand in hand. We are already seeing the benefits of environmental schemes, such as actions through the sustainable farming incentive to support the creation of flower-rich buffers that help pollinators, which in turn produce better yields. I remember learning about the role of pollinators in science lessons at school. Public interest often focuses on the charismatic insects such as bees and butterflies. I thank the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee for its recent report on insect decline and food security, which refers to the less-known, harder-to-identify and for many people unappealing insect species that play vital ecological roles, particularly in creating a productive landscape for food production. They require equal attention.
Dung beetles, for instance, play a vital role in maintaining pasture that livestock feed on by fertilising and aerating soils and helping to reduce greenhouse emissions. Those ecosystem services have been estimated to save the UK cattle industry up to £367 million a year. Disruptions to their populations have negative impacts on both soil health and long-term food production in these areas. It is positive to hear of farmers investing in the foundations of food production—healthy soil, water and biodiverse ecosystems.
In the UK, 70% of land is farmed, so agricultural practices have a major influence on insect populations. The lack of data and understanding of things such as the impact of pesticides on insect species is poor. We know that something has to be measured in order for there to be effective solutions to address it, so I support calls for a more comprehensive approach in the review of the national pollinator strategy, due this year, that includes provisions for invertebrates that carry out other important ecological roles, particularly relating to food security.
The environmental improvement plan sets out a target to bring at least 40% of England’s agricultural soil into sustainable management through farming schemes by 2028, increasing to 60% by 2030. We need to continue to be ambitious and ensure that food productivity and long-term food security are at the heart of the Government’s priorities.
Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), I thoroughly enjoy our Kentish honey, so I welcomed his encouragement of pollinators. May I start by putting on record my thanks to the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the Environmental Audit Committee and the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee for their important work? I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss the vital issue of food security.
Food security is important, as are other types of security, such as energy security or our national defence. Representing the area that is both guardian and gateway to our great nation for the European continent, I know that it is vital that there are robust measures and controls in place to protect our national interest. As outlined by the Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne), the Government’s failure to bring forward an effective land use framework in time or an ambitious internal food strategy will leave our country continuing to be dependent on food imports.
The Environmental Audit Committee has reported that over 40% of the UK’s food is imported, and more than a quarter of that comes from the EU and wider Europe. A lot of that comes in through the port of Dover. Meat is the second highest import in our country, with a value of around £7 billion and an export value of around £2 billion the other way. It is of the utmost importance, when it comes to food security, that appropriate and effective checks are implemented and funded. The Environmental Audit Committee has noted:
“Since…food security depends on some degree of imports, it is vital that environmental harms are not exported abroad.”
A failure in import biosecurity on food exports, such as in the case of African swine flu, would decimate our domestic production capability for years, and clearly it would affect our export markets as a result.
In spite of biosecurity warnings and concerns from me, the EFRA Committee, Dover Port Health Authority and businesses operating across the channel routes, the Government remain steadfast in their decision to do the wrong thing when it comes to protecting biosecurity at the Dover border. The Government have been formally and persistency warned over the past two years that, as we have heard, Russia’s war on Ukraine and global food price spikes and constraints have impacted the quality and availability of food. That has also resulted in increased biosecurity risks, as we have been informed.
Food producers and customs businesses have echoed some of the concerns made by the Committees. One customs business wrote to me in scathing terms:
“Throughout this saga DEFRA and the Cabinet Office have been disingenuous at best, arrogant certainly but in the care of UK human and animal health, appear to be derelict in their duty. The blatant attempt to cover up scandalous spending and shall we say misdirection regarding safety, removing the internationally recognised safeguard of within the port of entry’s accepted legal area for BCP checks.”
It goes on to say that there will be an increase in
“biosecurity breaches and, for the less compliant a great opportunity to undermine all those seeking to do the right and safe thing.”
To what was this business referring? It was referring to the Government’s new security control regime, which puts the Dover port checks 22 miles away in Ashford. That is the same distance as from Dover to France —a long way.
The EFRA Committee has written to the Government to ask for assurances about biosecurity management along that route. Many Members of the House will have heard me speak about that route as being prone to traffic congestion from time to time. It is a “single point of failure” road where, from time to time, no traffic moves in either direction. Yet 22 miles away is where the Government have put these new controls, even though there is a ready-to-use, state-of-the-art border control facility raring to go on the Dover frontline.
In the next few days, if not today, the Government will table a statutory instrument to underpin their new biosecurity structure. I want to draw it to the House’s attention because it reflects on the important work of the Committees. There will not be an automatic consideration by a Committee of this fundamental change to how our borders are managed, because this measure, which will weaken future border controls and our country’s biosecurity, is to be laid under the negative procedure. We will therefore not have an opportunity to debate it.
This new statutory instrument covers animal health, plant health and genetically modified organisms—important for us all to keep an eye on. It also covers poisons, plant protection products—pesticides and the like—and other pollutants. It will remove the requirement for these checks to be done at a location immediately proximate to the border. That will be the case for the first time because currently, under retained EU law that our Government confirmed after we left the EU, there is a requirement for proximity—the nearest place possible to make these important checks. I am sure we would all agree that it is very sensible to do border checks at the border—why would we not?
The new statutory instrument will elevate visual and local character at a border point of entry over and above standards of protecting goods and food. It will elevate both visual and environmental issues over and above biosecurity and national interest food security management. It contains no requirement for there to be effective biosecurity controls between the port of entry and the place of checking. Just to remind Members, that is 22 miles of open, or sometimes congested or closed, Kentish road. There is no role for the current port health authority to inform the decision that will be made. It will be the decision of the new port authority, which in this case will be not one but two local authorities away.
That matters because at the Dover frontline we have a really remarkable, effective and committed port health team. It has brought to the Government’s attention in formal reports over the last two years—not once and not twice, but several times—that biosecurity risks have increased and continue to be of great significance at the border. I pay tribute to its work and believe it should be better supported. It said, and this is a matter I have raised in debates in this House over the last two years, that
“To not mobilise the facility”—
the existing facility at Dover—
“would be an act of negligence that would significantly increase the risk of devastating consequences of another animal, health or food safety catastrophe.”
My right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells mentioned the importance of controlling pesticides, and he is absolutely right. But we cannot just control pesticides here, because of the very significant role of product coming into our country through imports. Let me refer to just one example. One item that was stopped by the port health team at the Dover port was pesticides on eastern European flax seeds, of the sort we might sprinkle on cereal. They were found to exceed the maximum level for UK health safety. In other words, they were dangerous to human life. That is illegal for the UK market and, given our own focus in the UK on wanting to improve the position on pesticides, it is unquestionable that we do not want product to come into this country that is both a danger to human health and could potentially damage our farming and food producers.
Biosecurity is a real concern. For example, on African swine fever the Government have said:
“The disease poses a significant risk to our pig herd and our long-term ability to export pork and pork products around the globe.”
So on food security we need robust measures on African swine fever in particular, because it is a known concern in terms of animal disease and its effects are devastating where they occur. In spite of that, the Government decided to slash African swine fever funding at the port of Dover and significantly reduce its capability to do checks. That does not protect our farmers or our food security. That decision puts our country and its farming at risk. I urgently ask the Government to reconsider that decision.
Food security is not just about what we grow; it is about protecting the very food on our table, and our farmers and food producers too. We cannot secure our food and food production without having strong borders and effective controls. I am grateful for all the work of the Committees, in particular the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, which is doing such important work on this issue. I thank all Members for their contributions today.
Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) (Con)
It is a privilege and honour to speak in this very important debate.
Food security is part of national security. It is a vital issue. The fact that three major Select Committees tabled this debate to the Liaison Committee shows its importance for our country. I am very proud to represent a constituency with a large farming footprint, both as the Member of Parliament and as a proud member of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee.
I pay tribute first to our fantastic farmers and growers up and down the land who produce the highest-quality food to the highest production standards and look after the precious environment, and to the bodies, such as the National Farmers Union, that champion the sector. Producing food and looking after the environment can and should go hand in hand, and our UK farmers are the best in the world in that regard.
Our Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee looked at this issue directly in producing our report “Food security”, and it has examined other aspects in studies including our ongoing study entitled “Fairness in the food supply chain” and previous inquiries such as “Moving animals across borders”, “Labour in the food supply chain”, “COVID-19 and food supply”, and “Soil health”, which was mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill), who chairs the Committee.
The challenges to our farmers and growers are huge. The importance of how we produce our food has been brought into sharp relief first during the pandemic, and now with the war in Ukraine. In Britain we have seen our excellent farmers and growers battle through this geopolitical context, dealing with factors such as extreme weather events, whether they involve a lack of water or flooding, and showing real tenacity in delivering for our country.
We all remember the startling headlines and the shortages on our shelves at the beginning of the pandemic. The concept of key workers was very much in our minds at that time. First and foremost we thought of NHS workers, but we also thought of the importance of all those involved in the food supply chain—farmers, growers, vets, drivers and abattoir workers. They were classified as key workers, and it is important to remember that.
The tragic illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia has again brought this issue into sharp focus. Again our producers face mounting challenges: increased fuel and energy costs, increased animal feed costs and increased fertiliser costs, as well as a lack of supply of fertiliser. Bolstering our food security is an urgent task, given inflation costs and the challenges around the world such as the war in Ukraine. We must think hard about becoming more self-sufficient. We produce about 60% of what we consume, and I firmly believe that we need to produce more.
Fertiliser became an important issue as a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Select Committee took a close interest in that, suggesting that the UK needed to be more resilient. The fertiliser company CF Fertilisers UK has mothballed its Ince plant and ended ammonia production in its Billingham plant. A by-product of fertiliser production and ammonia production is carbon dioxide, which, as we know, is vital for our food and beverage industry, but which is also vital to the process of slaughtering pigs and poultry. I strongly believe that the Government need to keep a watching brief on how we can secure a resilient supply of fertiliser and carbon dioxide.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Mrs Elphicke) mentioned, biosecurity is pivotal to food security, and it is also pivotal to national security. As a veterinary surgeon, I have seen how crucial it is, and not just for our nation but for our world. I started my journey into politics as a veterinary surgeon on the frontline, witnessing and supervising the culls during the foot and mouth crisis of 2001, and I saw sights then that I never want to see again in my lifetime.
As we have heard, African swine fever is advancing upwards through the continent of Europe. It is yet to reach the UK, and I pray that it never does, but if it does it will be catastrophic for our country—catastrophic for our animal health in terms of the pig sector, but also for human mental health. Another major inquiry undertaken by our Committee, entitled “Rural mental health”, examined the challenges and pressures faced by people working in rural communities and the food production chains, such as animal disease outbreaks, extreme weather events and rural isolation. In the event of a catastrophic animal health outbreak such as swine fever, the mental health implications for people across the country would be devastating.
I pay tribute to the Government and the Animal and Plant Health Agency. We are facing many threats, including, as I have said, African swine fever, but there are also ongoing threats such as avian influenza, which is still bubbling away. I know that Ministers and officials are currently very exercised by the threat from the bluetongue virus; we have seen cases in Kent, Suffolk, Norfolk and Surrey, and when the Culicoides midge season arrives we will be under real threat. There are also ongoing, chronic threats from diseases such as bovine tuberculosis.
Philip Dunne
I hesitate to intervene on my hon. Friend, but he has just referred to TB and the mental health implications of animal health crises for our farmers. I would like to mention to the House that, on my own farm, we have just gone down with TB for the second time in six months. We have had 13 cows in calf—some have just calved, and some are about to calf—that were reactors. We do not yet know whether they were positive or were just reactors—in other words, whether they received false positives.
There was confusion between DEFRA and the vets about whether those animals could be taken to the slaughterhouse or had to be shot on farm. DEFRA was telling us that they had to go to the slaughterhouse. It turned out that had we done that, we would have been in breach of the law, because one cannot take an animal to a slaughterhouse within a month of its giving birth. Consequently, the animals had to be shot on farm, including calves and pregnant cows on the brink of giving birth. The mental health impact on the farmers who have to look after those animals is very significant. At this time of the year, this terrible disease affects many people.
Dr Hudson
I thank my right hon. Friend for that powerful testimony. In the EFRA Committee’s rural mental health inquiry, we took similarly powerful evidence on the implications of TB when there is an outbreak, but also when farmers are involved in testing. There are implications for vets and farmers while they are waiting for the results to come through, and from what happens when there are positive results, so I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention.
The APHA is part of our frontline in protecting our biosecurity. It has its headquarters in Weybridge, Surrey, and the EFRA Committee visited the institution, which needs a radical refurbishment and redevelopment. The Government are committed to that, but I urge them to press ahead at full steam. It requires a lot of money— £2.8 billion. Some £1.2 billion has been allocated so far, but the EFRA Committee took evidence from the chief veterinary officer, who pressed the case for how important it is that the APHA is redeveloped. I hope that the Minister takes that message away. I know that DEFRA is on the same page and is making the case to the Treasury that we need to spend a fair amount of money now to prevent a future crisis.
We have talked today about some of the international challenges that our farmers and growers have faced, not least the ongoing situations in Ukraine and the middle east. As we have heard, Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe. It is important for supplies of grain and sunflower, but also fertiliser. What we have seen throughout that crisis is a choking of supply through the Black sea, and the deliberate and cynical decision by Putin to pull Russia out of the UN’s Black sea grain initiative, leading to its subsequent collapse. That has choked off supplies to the rest of the world. What we have seen as a consequence—I am sure this is intended by Putin—are food shortages and potential famine in the developing world. As a country, we need to be cognisant of that. It is so important that the Black sea route gets back up to speed.
The actions of the Houthis in the Red sea have affected trade and the free passage of vessels, which has implications for the security of shipping and trade routes. Costs have increased due to diversions around the Cape of Good Hope, adding an extra 14 days to journeys and sometimes upwards of an extra £1 million for a vessel’s voyage. That will have unintended consequences for the price and availability of food and other supplies. Securing the passage of goods throughout the world is part of global security, and we need to think about the Black sea, the Red sea, the Panama canal and the Suez canal to make sure that such routes are viable.
Amid all these challenges, I am proud that our Government are supporting the sector. We have a Prime Minister, a Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and a Government who are fully aware of the issues and challenges facing our farmers and growers, and I know the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore), personally feels it too.
I was pleased to attend the Prime Minister’s Farm to Fork summit. Food production and food security being brought into the heart of No. 10 is an important statement to the country. It is important that we are maintaining the farming budget for England at £2.4 billion a year through this Parliament and, coming into this election year, we need clarity that that level of funding will continue. Farmers and growers need to be able to plan, so we need to have security.
Our horticulture and agriculture have been bolstered by additional visas, allowing people to come in to harvest crops. That has been expanded to the poultry sector, but we need to keep a watching brief. My right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) talked about animals being put down on farms. In the pig sector, where we have had labour shortages in the abattoir and processing sectors over the past couple of years, upwards of 60,000 healthy pigs were culled on farms. That is awful food wastage, but it is also harrowing and incredibly distressing for the people who reared those pigs. We need to keep a watching brief so that those situations never happen again.
Our Committee and the EAC have called for food security to be reviewed annually. I am pleased that the Government have announced an annual food security index that will underpin the food security report, which is an important statement. The last food security report was in December 2021, prior to the Ukraine war. We need annual check-ups, and I am pleased that the Government have responded to the Select Committees’ reports.
The Government are also very aware that good farming and food production and a healthy environment go hand in hand, and that the ELM scheme is pivotal in supporting both those goals. I am pleased that the Secretary of State has announced an expansion of ELMS in recent months.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill) mentioned the situation in Wales. If that is going to be Labour’s blueprint for England, there is a real concern that 10% of food-producing land will be diverted to planting trees and that another 10% will be diverted to wildlife habitats. That is a noble intention, but the idea of forcing farmers to take 20% of their food-producing land out of production is deeply alarming. We have talked about TB policy, and the statistics for cattle herds in Wales and England show that the TB situation is worse in Wales. We need to be cognisant and follow the science. We need evidence-based policymaking to control the dreadful threat of bovine TB.
I congratulate the Government on their important Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Act 2023. The Act, which some of the reports touch on, allows the technology to produce climate-resistant and disease-resistant crops, as well as disease-resistant animals and birds, which will reduce the need for drugs and antimicrobials and will indirectly help public health. It will help animal health, bird health and public health, and it will support the environment. The Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee visited the world-leading Rothamsted Research to look at its work.
I support the Government’s animal health and welfare pathway, their legislation to ban the live export of animals for fattening and slaughter, and their £4 million fund for small abattoirs. Those measures will help animals to be produced, reared, slaughtered and ultimately consumed locally, which is a win for local communities and for animal welfare, because animals will not have to be transported long distances. We have the highest animal welfare standards in the world, and we can be a beacon to the rest of the world in our policymaking. I am proud that our Conservative Government have done that.
The Government paused their trade negotiations with Canada, which was an important symbolic statement. They said, “No, we have red lines on hormone-treated beef, ractopamine-treated pork and chlorine-washed products. These are red-line products that are illegal in this country, and we will not import them.” I congratulate the Government on standing firm, because that says to the world, “This is where we stand and these are our values. If you want to trade with us, meet our standards.”
We cannot shy away from the need to do more to bolster our food security, domestic production and standards. The environmental land management schemes are good measures. We must ensure that all types of farmer are fairly rewarded, including commoners, tenants and upland farmers. Our Committee has looked at the issue and we have been calling for that. We also need to make sure that we are training up the next generation of people to go into farming by supporting our land-based educational sector. My colleagues have talked about food waste and we need to tackle that. We also need to think about fairness in the food supply chain, which our Select Committee is very much looking at.
In conclusion, I pay tribute to all our farmers, growers and producers, and everyone else involved in producing food in our country. Doing that and looking after the environment go hand in hand. We are a beacon to the world in our production standards. This area is vital for our communities and it is so important that our Government continue to support it, and I commend our reports to the House.
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
I wish to start by thanking all three Committees for their excellent reports and for securing this important debate. Let me also highlight some shareholdings in my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.
Food and drink is the UK’s largest manufacturing sector, contributing some £127 billion to our economy. The quality of what we produce is recognised throughout the world and plays a significant role in our global brand. As a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, I know that farming is an integral part of our national identity, helping to bind our Union of nations together. The value of our upland farmers is particularly keenly felt across the nations and regions, and I pay tribute to them and all farmers, and indeed everyone involved in the food sector.
Clearly, farming is not just a job; it is a cultural identity at the heart of our rural communities. As we have heard, the role that farmers perform goes far beyond the food they produce; crucially, they are custodians of our natural environment and our iconic landscapes. Events of recent years have emphasised the huge importance of food security to every single one of us. A massive Government effort was focused on preparing for our EU exit, then on maintaining food supplies during the pandemic and, most recently, on dealing with the impact of the Ukraine war. In the face of all those challenges, the UK food supply chain has shown itself to have great resilience.
However, as the Select Committee reports show, further vital matters still need to be addressed, including by tackling the food price inflation of recent years. I really welcome the progress we are seeing on that, with yesterday’s fall in the overall rate of inflation. We also need measures to ensure that farmers get a fair price for what they produce, and it is good to have the Prime Minister’s assurance that the Groceries Code Adjudicator will continue as an independent body and not be merged into the Competition and Markets Authority.
Thirdly, we have to reduce carbon emissions from agriculture if we are to meet our net zero commitments and ensure that we transition to farming methods that give more space for nature. That includes tackling the serious problems we have with insects, which were highlighted by my right hon. Friend the Chair of the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee. Much depends on ELMS, which are replacing the common agricultural policy. We need to achieve the crucial balance of ensuring that they keep our farms viable and profitable, while securing public goods on nature and climate.
When I was Environment Secretary, I was dismayed to receive a certain amount of collective responsibility push-back because I wanted to assert that ELMS should help farmers earn a living. Of course they should do that, because a successful and profitable farming sector is crucial for food security, the importance of which every speaker has emphasised this afternoon. In the role I then played, I felt it was very important to add commitments on food security to what was then the Agriculture Bill, now the Agriculture Act 2020, including the three-yearly report. I welcome the progress towards an annual food security index report publication, as promised by the Prime Minister.
Real progress is being made on improving ELMS and the sustainable farming incentive in response to feedback and concern expressed by the farming community. I am confident that those programmes will be a huge improvement on the EU ones they replace, and that they will deliver substantial benefits in reducing carbon emissions and protecting nature. In particular, I commend the efforts that are being made to protect peatland habitats and care for hedgerows.
In my view, it would have been extremely difficult to deliver a successful transition to more sustainable farming without maintaining overall levels of funding for farm support. I fought successfully for the Conservative manifesto commitment to do that; I hope we see similar commitments in the forthcoming manifesto. Even with that funding, the transition continues to be complex and difficult. I appeal to Ministers to continue to engage closely with farmers and to make further alterations to ELMS, as and when it is needed in response to changing circumstances and as a greater knowledge base is built up in relation to the schemes. I emphasise that we should not follow the example set in Wales, where their proposals would do significant damage to our farming sector and thus to our food security.
We have one of the biggest science and research budgets in the world, including £168 million for agricultural innovation. All of these reports show that we must increase the uptake of new technology in the farming sector if we are to have a chance of meeting the crucial environmental and biodiversity goals we have been speaking about. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson), I think lifting the EU ban on gene editing technology is a tremendous step forward. It could play an important part in boosting our efforts to ensure we can feed an ever-growing global population in a way that is consistent with our commitments on climate and nature.
Finally, if we are to ensure we have resilient supplies of food and thriving agriculture in this country, these domestic goals must be at the heart of our trade policies. Like others who have served as DEFRA Secretary, I had a number of debates with ministerial colleagues on these matters. A key problem with the global trade system is that sanitary and phytosanitary rules are focused on concerns about human health, important as they are, and they are less clear on environmental and animal welfare standards.
I have always argued for permanent quotas to restrict imports in sensitive sectors, where those imports are produced to lower environmental and animal welfare standards than ours. There is little point imposing high standards at home if we simply import more food as a result, with the outcome that we offshore carbon emissions, biodiversity loss and animal cruelty. For those reasons, I have concerns about aspects of the Australia trade agreement, particularly in relation to the beef sector, but I warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s statement in advance of his Farm to Fork summit that permanent quotas would be used where appropriate. As far as I know, neither of his two immediate predecessors as Prime Minister was ever prepared to say that, and it demonstrates the Prime Minister’s strong commitment to British farming.
Our farmers here in the UK operate to some of the highest environmental and animal welfare standards in the world. We should be proud of them and we should back them. If we are to meet our goals on climate and nature, we must work closely with them to deliver a successful transition to net zero, while ensuring that everyone continues to have access to the safe, high-quality, affordable food that they need.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I shall now call the speakers from the three Front-Bench teams, starting with the SNP spokesperson.
Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Food security is a term that we have all become more familiar with over recent years. It should mean that a nation can sustainably provide for all its citizens through well-resourced and highly valued agricultural communities. It should mean a farming system that balances fair pay for workers with affordable prices in the shops. And it should mean a food supply chain that is reliable and serves the needs of our struggling planet, as global temperatures rise and populations swell.
I have held this brief for only a short time, but I am already well aware of the endless varying definitions of food security, as was noted by the Environmental Audit Committee in its report. I have also noted the EFRA Committee’s scrutiny of the chosen definition of food security by the Minister of State for Food, Farming and Fisheries, and I join fellow members of that Committee in expressing concern that that Minister is not taking households’ ability to access food into account when considering this vital topic. For us in the SNP, there are some definitions and some areas that take priority. I shall focus on those, because food security, or more appropriately food insecurity, sits at the heart of two defining crises facing the people of Scotland today: the climate crisis, with its impacts of extreme weather on our planet’s ability to provide for growing populations; and the cost of living crisis, which has been turbocharged by this Tory Government’s reckless relationship with the economy.
Many Members will be familiar with the Trussell Trust charity. Within its network are just under 1,400 food banks, with estimates of a further 1,000 or so food banks operating independently across the UK. There are three such food banks in my constituency, which are doing fantastic work in extremely difficult circumstances, and I thank them all for that. The Trussell Trust tells a stark and revealing story.
In 2010, when this Government first assumed office, the Trussell Trust delivered fewer than 300,000 emergency food parcels. Last year, following 13 years of Tory rule, that number had risen to 3 million parcels, 260,000 of which were distributed across Scotland. Data from the Department for Work and Pensions has found that a staggering 4.7 million people in the UK were in food-insecure households. That is 7% of our total population. That same data tells us that, between 2010 and last year, 19% of children lived in households with either low or very low food security. Of those children in poverty, 38% are in households with low or very low food security. That is shameful data and it is a vivid reminder that child poverty has been rising in every single part of the UK every year. That was happening long before the pandemic, and, respectfully, long before any invasion of Ukraine, which highlighted the vulnerability of global supply chains. Long before any of that, there were people in abject poverty in the United Kingdom.
What kind of a legacy is that? It is the Tories’ legacy. We have often heard Members on the Government Benches—some of them have crossed the Floor now—talk about the choices that people make that lead them into abject poverty, insinuating that it is their own fault that they find themselves in such circumstances. However, the reality is that the choices that really matter are political choices. They are choices taken in places such as this. They are choices repeatedly made by this Conservative Government for 14 years now that have allowed 4.2 million children to grow up in poverty.
The Tory approach to problem-solving also summarises the UK’s position on the climate crisis. Both at home and overseas, climate change is already causing chaos for our food supply. Our farmers in Scotland need our support to provide vital resources for our communities. We in the SNP have made repeated calls for such support, as have farmers’ unions and family farmers, but, repeatedly and rather unsurprisingly, those calls and concerns have fallen on the deaf ears of this Government.
As well as trade disruption, this Government’s Brexit obsession has created significant workforce recruitment issues for Scotland’s food and drink sector. Many exports to the EU have fallen, including a 38% fall in fruit and vegetable exports, and a 7% fall in dairy and egg exports between 2019 and 2022. Extreme temperatures across Europe have led to an unprecedent level of wildfires and droughts, and in turn food production has suffered, with shortages and therefore price increases for the likes of olive oil, rice and potatoes, and an increase in animal welfare concerns.
All those points were referenced in all the reports that we are debating. Our food system is close to breaking point. Domestic suppliers are doing their very best in challenging circumstances, but they are being put at a constant competitive disadvantage thanks to the choices of this Government. Food prices in shops are rocketing, forcing more and more families to make impossible decisions about whether they should heat their homes or feed their children.
The SNP Government in Holyrood have chosen an alternative path to that of the Tory Government here in Westminster. In 2023, we created a new dedicated food security unit, tasked with monitoring the Scottish food supply chain for possible disruption. A similar unit is one of the key recommendations of the Environmental Audit Committee, so I encourage the Government once again to follow Scotland’s lead in that regard. Our vision for agriculture has food right at its heart, making clear our support for farmers and crofters in providing Scotland with healthy food, while ensuring that Scotland meets its world-leading climate and nature restoration targets and outcomes.
Unlike the Tories, the Scottish Government have taken bold steps to address child poverty. The introduction of the Scottish child payment, unique across the UK, has been described by anti-poverty charities as an absolute game changer in the fight against child poverty. The payment has already benefited thousands of families on low incomes all across Scotland. The Scottish Government also provide support worth around £5,000 by the time a child turns six through the best start grant, best start foods, and the Scottish child payment.
Thanks to Westminster, rather than sustainable food production, UK food self-sufficiency is below 60%. Instead of valuing Scottish farmers and crofters, we have a Westminster Government whose new visa rules are threatening farmers’ financial sustainability, and who have repeatedly put us at a competitive disadvantage with reckless, poorly negotiated trade deals and incentives for low-value imports. We have 4.2 million children growing up in poverty, and a 900% increase in the use of emergency food support in the 14 years that this Tory Government have wreaked their havoc from the Dispatch Box.
The reports are timely, and I thank the Committees for their work in bringing the scale of the issues to light. They illuminate the scale of hardship faced by many of our constituents and lay bare the tragic impact of unjustifiable political decisions and a lack of political leadership. The SNP believes that the Scottish people deserve better. We deserve to have full control of our food production, our imports and exports, our destiny and future, and the support that we provide to those who need it. The only way that we can rid ourselves of Tory chaos for good, and avoid the clutches of Labour’s born-again Thatcherites, is for an independent Scotland to return to its rightful place within the European Union. At the next general election, only the SNP will offer that choice to the Scottish electorate.
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
I congratulate all those who secured the debate, the three Select Committee Chairs on their very thoughtful introductions—exactly as one would expect—and the members of those Committees, who put in so much hard work. I assure all those people that I will look very closely at their recommendations. I also thank others for their contributions. I found myself very much in agreement with the comments on biosecurity made by the hon. Members for Dover (Mrs Elphicke) and for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson). I struggled slightly with some of the other contributions on hedgerow protection. We find ourselves in the unfortunate position of hedgerows being currently unprotected because the Government have failed to introduce legislation quickly enough.
On food security in general, I am delighted by the conversion of Government Members to the cause that Labour and I were advancing four years ago during the passage of the Agriculture Act 2020. Government Members consistently voted down our amendments proposing an annual food security review. We have now come to that point, which I welcome, but I remind those Members that it was not what they supported four or five years ago.
Daniel Zeichner
I will not take interventions, because Conservative Members have spoken at length this afternoon and we do not have much time. I do not mean in any way to disregard the significance of the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee.
As far as Labour is concerned, food security is absolutely a matter of national security. As the reports point out, the sector has seen significant shocks over the last few years, as various climate events across the globe have impacted on so many crops and harvests, and made life so hard for many farmers, particularly the recent floods. However, some challenges are not consequences of things beyond our control; quite frankly, some have been made worse by political decisions made here. Others—the skyrocketing costs of fertiliser, animal feed and energy—are consequences of the situation in Ukraine. Alongside that, there has been a difficult transition from the previous agricultural support system to ELMS, and persistent labour shortages.
I will ask the Minister about the Government’s response to John Shropshire’s good report on the agricultural workforce, which highlights many of the problems that the EFRA Committee report picks up. I think his analysis and many of his recommendations are sensible. He is very critical of the overly bureaucratic and slow administration of visas, and of the lack of a long-term strategic workforce plan, and he calls for urgent action from the Government. Perhaps the Minister will tell us when we might expect the Government to respond.
I could speak at length about ELMS—almost as long as others have—but I will not. It seems to me that ELMS have left too many people, particularly in the uplands, in a parlous state. Although I support the overall goals of that move to public money for public goods, I absolutely endorse the Environmental Audit Committee’s argument that food security is a public good—there is a bit of a discussion with economists about what those terms mean. I have been arguing for some time that food security should be a public good. We have not mentioned the problems that tenant farmers face at the moment. Will the Minister say a little about when we can expect more responses to Baroness Rock’s report, because they are long overdue?
Put all that together and it is pretty clear that we are seeing a decline in food production, which is disappointing and worrying. Staples such as eggs and some vegetables are in decline—there is less and less. At the NFU conference the other week, an interesting Farmers Guardian article rather summarised the situation pretty starkly:
“UK food production in free fall”.
Frankly, that is not the position that we want to be in. If that is to change, we must ensure that farm businesses get a decent return, because they are businesses, and for too many, the risk-reward ratio is out of kilter at the moment.
As we know, that has also hit consumers. The rise in prices has slowed, which is welcome—they were very high a few years ago—but prices are still going up. There is a whole range of reasons why that is happening. We also know that too many of our fellow citizens are struggling. The Trussell Trust statistics on the escalating reliance on food banks is deeply shocking. The EFRA Committee report echoes that feeling of, “Do they feel food secure? Clearly, they do not.” I welcome and agree with the Committee’s criticism of the fact that the Minister with responsibility for food has claimed that the issue of household affordability and access to food does not constitute food security.
There are many matters that I would be happy to cover, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I am rushing through my remarks because I am conscious of time. Let me turn briefly to the food chain supply issues, and particularly waste, which is relevant to these discussions. It is pretty clear that pressures in the food chain, such as last-minute changes to specification, are leading to economic stress for producers and to disappointing levels of waste. One grower told me that, at best, he sells only about 50% of the lettuces that he grows. It is particularly depressing that that food is being wasted at a time when so many of our fellow citizens are struggling. The NFU reported that as much as £60 million of food on farms was wasted in the first half of 2022 alone.
To turn briefly to pesticides, a very interesting set of observations was made by the Chair of the EFRA Committee, the right hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill), and the Chair of the Science and Technology Committee, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark). I would just point to the evidence that is given in the Science and Technology Committee’s report—the view of the experts on neonicotinoids. Once again, for the third year running, they pointed out that they were not able to support an authorisation for Cruiser SB because
“the potential adverse effects to honeybees and other pollinators”
outweigh the likely benefits. I am not going to rehearse the entire debate—we have also had debates on Westminster Hall on this issue—but it is clearly a major issue, and the public are clearly concerned. Quite frankly, it is time that we stopped ignoring expert advice.
However, I fully understand the problems that farmers face and the serious points that were raised by the Chair of the EFRA Committee. Sadly, it looks like the weather is not with us again this year, and we are going to see problems from virus yellows. I have been out in the field, looking at sugar beet plants with the British Beet Research Organisation, and there are some economic choices here. We might have to move to other varieties, but there is a yield penalty. To me, that is the decision and the challenge we face: not just producing food, but producing it in an environmentally sustainable and nature- positive way.
As I say, I am not going to go through all the recommendations, but I will just make a few comments. I take very seriously the points made by the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells about insect decline, and will look very closely at that issue. I have to say, I think the prospect of an invertebrates strategy will be a joy for parliamentary sketch writers, but possibly we can get them beyond that. I also echo the points about the wait for the national action plan on pesticides—it really is unacceptable. I hope the Minister can say something about it, but after a six-year wait, I do not think we are going to be holding our breath.
It will not come as a surprise to anyone to hear that Labour agrees with the Environmental Audit Committee report about using the Government’s purchasing power to ensure that more food in our hospitals and prisons is locally produced. That is Labour policy, and I think it is also Government policy; the question is whether the Government can actually make it happen. Should we get the opportunity, we will endeavour to do so.
The land use framework is another thing that we are waiting for with bated breath. I have challenged a colleague of the Minister on new ways of defining the words “soon”, “next”, “spring” or whatever. We really would like to see that framework, but again, if this Government cannot do it, I hope whoever forms the next Government will pick it up. It is a really important point as we deal with the complicated trade-offs of trying to ensure food security while recovering nature and not causing further environmental damage.
Finally, I will just pick up on the points that Henry Dimbleby made, referred to in the EFRA Committee report. I do not want to reopen the whole debate, but I do not think it is surprising that he says that in his view, the Government do not have anything resembling a proper food strategy, and that one is long overdue.
I reiterate my thanks for all the hard work that has been done to produce such comprehensive reports. I will be referring to them frequently for guidance—I already do so, because they identify some of the most urgent challenges we now face. To me, they are an example of Parliament working at its best, because they can inform not just Government thinking but certainly Opposition thinking too. For us, the goal of delivering food security and stability while optimising social, economic and environmental objectives is a priority.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Robbie Moore)
I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions to today’s debate, and also thank the Chairs of the three Select Committees for the valuable work they have done in pulling together the reports. Having been a member of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee before taking up my ministerial role, I know just how hard all Select Committees work, so I thank them for those reports.
UK food security, based on supply from diverse sources, is a top priority for this Government. We know just how important driving domestic food production is. As has been mentioned, we produce just over 60% of the food that we need, and 73% of the food that we can grow or rear in the UK for all or part of the year. Those figures have changed little over the past 20 years, but it is worth noting that the Government’s desire is to ensure that our domestic food production is enhanced.
A strong domestic food production system is the foundation of our food security, which is why we as a Government have committed £2.4 billion to supporting food producers. The Farm to Fork summit last year brought together over 70 businesses with the aim of growing a thriving British food and drink sector. It was hailed a great success by many of the stakeholders who attended—the Chairs of the three Select Committees noted just how valuable it was—which is why the Prime Minister has announced that we will be holding a further summit this spring.
We as a Government take a holistic view of food security, considering it across the five themes set out in the UK food security report. That report is an analysis of the statistics relating to food security that DEFRA is required to produce under the Agriculture Act 2020 to present to Parliament every three years. The report includes chapters with statistics on trends in global food production, total population demand, price inflation and sustainability. The global chapter of the UK food security report sits alongside chapters on other key aspects of food security, both domestic and international, to ensure that we are taking a holistic approach that considers links across the food system. The first UK food security report was published in December 2021, and the next food security report will be published in December this year.
All Members, including my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), have recognised just how important those reports are, as is the addition of the food security index, which was announced by the Prime Minister at the National Farmers Union conference. In addition to our existing robust processes for monitoring the UK’s food security, the food security index will complement the three-yearly food security report. We are currently developing the content of the index, but we expect it to present the key data and analysis needed to monitor how we are maintaining and enhancing our current levels of food security. We will publish the first draft of the food security index during the second UK Farm to Fork summit in the spring. The requirement for an annual food security index will be put on a statutory footing when parliamentary time allows.
A key challenge, which all countries are facing, is how we meet our climate and environmental objectives while maintaining a high level of food security. Domestically, the Government have committed to maintain the current level of food that we produce, but we want to enhance it to unleash our domestic potential. This includes sustainably boosting production in sectors in which there are post- Brexit opportunities, such as the horticulture and seafood sectors.
We know that food production and environmental improvement can and must go hand in hand. Our environmental land management schemes, which support climate and environmental outcomes as well as food production, are absolutely part of that. We have already ensured that our existing environmental schemes support food production. For instance, actions in the sustainable farming incentive support the creation of flower-rich buffers, which help pollinators, and that in turn helps with crop reduction.
The Agriculture Act imposes a duty on the Secretary of State to have regard to the need to encourage the production of food by producers in England, and its production in an environmentally sustainable way, when framing any financial assistance scheme. That is why our reforms aim to support a highly productive food producing sector, and one that is more environmentally sustainable.
Many Members asked about the land use framework. It will be published this year, but I want to reiterate that the reason why it has not been published to date is that the Secretary of State and his ministerial team have been very keen to make sure that it relates to enhancing our food production and making sure that food security is at its very core. When we are balancing the use of land as a finite resource that is being pulled in all different directions—for energy security, biodiversity offsetting, net zero targets, housing, infrastructure—we need to make sure that food security is considered at the heart of it.
Many Members, including the Chairs of the Select Committees, referred to pesticides, which play an important role in UK food security.
The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee’s report, “Insect decline and UK food security”, states that there was a consensus among key industry stakeholders, academics, charities and farming representatives that
“pesticides, even if only used as a last resort, are needed for UK food production.”
However, it notes that they must be used sustainably, and the Government’s first priority on pesticides is to ensure that they will not harm people or impose unacceptable risks to the environment. A pesticide may only be placed on the market in Great Britain if a product has been authorised by the regulator, the Health and Safety Executive, following a thorough scientific risk assessment that concludes that all safety standards have been met.
Reference has been made to the national action plan on the sustainable use of pesticides. It will set out DEFRA’s ambition to minimise the risks and impacts of pesticides on human health and the environment, including how we intend to increase the uptake of integrated pest management across all sectors. We hope to publish that national action plan imminently. However, we have not waited for its publication, and we have been moving forward with work to support sustainable pest management, and DEFRA has funded a package of research projects that bring together scientific evidence underpinning integrated pest management. We look at ways of further encouraging its uptake.
Greg Clark
I am encouraged by the imminence of the publication of the action plan. Can the Minister confirm that “imminently” will mean that it will meet the recommendation of my Committee’s report, to which he referred, which echoes the report of the Environmental Audit Committee, chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne), that it should be by May at the latest?
Robbie Moore
I thank the Chair of the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee for his intervention. I reassure him that officials are working at pace, based on the recommendations of all the Select Committee Chairs, to ensure that we can get the announcement made as soon as possible. I want to reassure him on that.
Pollinators were raised, and we know that bees and other pollinators play an essential role in our £100 billion food industry. The economic benefit of insect pollination to UK agriculture is estimated at more than £500 million a year. I reassure all Members of the House that we have already taken action. We have announced 20 new nature-based solutions across the country, funded by a £25 million species survival fund, and that is in addition to the 12 nature recovery projects and 54 further projects that we have funded through the landscape recovery scheme. Under the pollinator strategy, we have already established a world-leading pollinator monitoring scheme for farmland that delivers food and fuel for pollinators.
Many points have been made throughout this debate, and I simply do not have time to respond to all of them, but I am happy to meet Members who have raised queries throughout the debate. In closing, in the last few seconds that I have, I reiterate that the UK has strong food security, and we are keen to enhance that. We are not taking that for granted. We are working across the supply chain to maintain and enhance food security across multiple policy areas, but it is worrying that Labour wants to roll out the blueprint it has established in Wales across the UK, should it get to power. I worry for farmers, and I worry how seriously Labour is taking food security, given that not one Labour Back Bencher contributed to such an important debate on food security.
I thank all Members who have contributed to today’s debate, including the Chairs of the Select Committees, my right hon. Friends the Members for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill) and for Ludlow (Philip Dunne), who have made their valuable contributions.
Philip Dunne
I am grateful to the Minister and all who have spoken for their warm words about the work of my right hon. Friends the Members for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill) and for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) from the other Select Committees, and the work that all members of Select Committees put into these reports. I share the Minister’s concern that not a single Back Bencher from any Opposition party contributed to this debate. All the contributions came from those on the Government Benches, but I welcome the remarks made by the Opposition spokesmen, the hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar) and the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner), who both seem to take food security seriously. We will have to see how that is converted into any action.
On the subject on action, I was relieved that the Minister sought to introduce some new definitions to parliamentary terminology. I have not heard a Minister use the expression “imminently” before. The expressions “soon”, “in the spring” and “when parliamentary time allows” are well recognised expressions for general delay and obfuscation, but I hope that “imminently” brings a new urgency. He also referred to his officials working “at pace”, so we look forward to that.
I conclude by congratulating and thanking Conservative Back Benchers for their contributions, in particular my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), who, as a former Secretary of State, brings particular expertise to her contributions. She pointed out that we should not be looking to Wales as a blueprint for future food security, given the devastating impact that the proposals of the Welsh Government are having on farm incomes and food production. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Mrs Elphicke) spoke about the importance of the effective border controls for phytosanitary requirements, as we rely on both imports and exports for food businesses and food security in this country. My hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson) brought his considerable expertise in animal health to the deliberations. I rather apologise for having personalised my intervention, but he is able to speak with considerable authority on the challenges of animal health. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) was referring to the challenges of waste in the food supply chain. She made important comments on that, which I hope we will see turn into action with the waste food report, whether that is “imminent”, “soon” or “in the spring”. Again, I thank all Members for participating in this debate.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I shall put the question imminently, or indeed shortly, if not now.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the matter of food security, including the effects on it of environmental change and of insect decline.
Recommendations of the Infected Blood Inquiry
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
I rise to present this petition on the recommendations of the infected blood inquiry, owing to this Government’s failure to provide justice or compensation to those infected and affected by the contaminated blood scandal. Victims of this scandal and their families have been subjected to unimaginable trauma during their search for justice, and for many of them time is running out. There can be no more delays. Steps must be taken to establish a final body to pay compensation urgently.
The petition states:
“The petition of residents of the constituency of Nottingham South,
Declares that people who have received infected blood and who have suffered as a consequence have, along with their families, waited far too long for redress.
The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to implement the recommendations in the Second Interim Report of the Infected Blood Inquiry without delay.
And the petitioners remain etc.”
[P002933]
Trailer and Towing Safety
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)
It has been a decade since a child was killed in my constituency by a runaway trailer. Freddie was just three years old. A 2-tonne trailer came loose from a nearby car as he walked down the street near his home. The consequences of the unsecured tow hitch were fatal. Shortly after I became an MP, I met Freddie’s parents, in 2016. Since then I have campaigned to improve towing safety standards. I am grateful tonight to have the chance to focus the mind of the current Minister on this important topic, and I thank him for talking with me.
Sadly, not enough has been done over the past three years to ensure that our roads are safe for trailers. Back in 2016, when I first met the family, they had researched previous cases and learned that there were other families like theirs. This was not a one-off, and it could have been prevented if better safety checks had been in place. One example that came to light was the death of a four-year-old boy killed by a trailer that had broken free from a car in the Amber Valley constituency in 2007. The then Minister, the former Member for Poplar and Limehouse, commented at that time:
“Introducing MOT-style tests for such trailers is a possibility that we have considered before, and it is a matter that we keep under review. There have been several such accidents in recent months, and I will certainly consider the matter with officials in the Department to see whether we need to move on that”.—[Official Report, 22 January 2008; Vol. 470, c. 1354.]
The Road Traffic Act 1988 states that it is an offence to drive an unroadworthy vehicle, and we know that there are many trailers on our roads that are dangerous and in need of repair. We need to do so much more to stop further tragedies from happening.
Since 2015, I have met many road safety Ministers, and I put on the record my thanks to the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones), the right hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and the right hon. and learned Member for Northampton North (Sir Michael Ellis) for their time and support in looking at this issue and working with me and the family. I also thank the current Minister’s predecessors, Baroness Vere of Norbiton and the right hon. Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden), who have reported to the all-party parliamentary group on trailer and towing safety, which I chair.
In those years there have been many successes in the campaign. I held two trailer safety summits—in March 2017 and April 2018—in Bedminster, where the accident happened, involving Freddie’s family and key stakeholders. In July 2017 the National Trailer and Towing Association introduced the free safety checks initiative—the first of its kind in the UK—which meant that, through its network of accredited members, any light trailer could be given a free 10 to 15-minute visual inspection of key points, and a written report completed. The campaign has also worked with the Department for Transport and the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency on a campaign on driver behaviour and the creation of the hashtag #towsafe4freddie. That brings together vital information about towing safely and has hugely increased awareness of the issue among drivers.
Following my amendments to the Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Bill in 2018, the Government had to undertake a statutory report into trailer safety, which was published in July 2019. That was a huge milestone in the campaign. The findings of the Government’s report reinforced the urgency of the issue. As part of the actions of the report, the DVSA conducted roadside checks of light trailers between 2019 and 2021. I was able to join such a roadside check near Bristol.
From the report, we know the horrifying fact that half of all light trailers are non-compliant with safety standards. I was deeply shocked and concerned to learn that 40% of those vehicles were so dangerous that they needed immediate repairs. When people think of towing, they often think of caravans, but we know from the data that caravans and responsible commercial companies are not the issue; it is personal light trailers that contribute to these shocking statistics.
The Government know that a disgraceful number of vehicles on our roads are deeply unsafe—their own statutory report tells them that—so why have they failed to act on that information or to progress the work from the report that they said they would do? Following the statutory report in 2019, the right hon. and learned Member for Northampton North, then Minister of State at the Department for Transport, said that a “focus must be maintained on driving up the safety of these trailers.”—[Official Report, 18 July 2019; Vol. 663, c. 62WS.]
That is absolutely imperative.
My ask of the Minister is that trailer safety be put at the forefront of the agenda once more. That is because trailer safety is a key part of safety on our roads. The potentially deadly consequences of unsecure trailers demonstrate the need for mandatory safety checks on trailers and formal testing for those using them. The statutory report made the case for that clearly: it recommended considering “revisions and improvements” to the test that drivers use to undertake in order to hold a licence to tow light vehicles—the so-called B+E test. With one in two light vehicles on our roads unroadworthy, that knowledge and training is paramount.
As the former Minister stated in 2019, in his response to the report
“there is further work in this area which the Government will take forward.”—[Official Report, 18 July 2019; Vol. 663, c. 62WS.]
That was set out in a work programme from the statutory report. Those were actions that I and the APPG, working closely with industry, officials in the Department and Ministers, were happy to see progress. I thank all those officials for the work they did.
Yet following the 2019 election, we have had a complete U-turn. I was appalled and horrified when in 2021 the Government introduced a statutory instrument that scrapped the towing test altogether, meaning that any driver with a standard B driving licence could tow without further instruction on how to do so safely. This was a reckless decision with potentially dangerous consequences. According to Department for Transport data, 30% of people who have been trained and tested fail, yet we are now unleashing thousands of untrained, unsafe and unqualified drivers of trailers on to our roads.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on her dogged pursuit of this issue. I wonder whether, knowing the appalling state of many of our roads in this country—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. I am afraid we have to go through the technical nicety of the Whip moving the Adjournment again.
Lilian Greenwood
That took me by surprise. I was wondering whether the state of our roads, which many people are aware of, adds to the danger posed by the issues with trailers and driver awareness that she has set out.
Karin Smyth
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Yes, if the trailer is not towed safely, any damage in the roads—road bumps, potholes and so on—will add to the stress on trailers. That could have more lethal consequences.
The Government’s own impact assessment, which was not released until after the statutory instrument had passed, stated that this legislation could
“have implications for competence of drivers to tow trailers safely”
and
“may potentially increase the road safety risk”.
That was deeply worrying not only for those who have lost loved ones through unsafe towing, but for those in the wider industry, many of whom contacted me to share their anxieties. The public have no idea that so many defective vehicles are on our roads, and now the Government have scrapped the mandatory training that would have helped drivers to understand the importance of safety checks on their vehicles. We have evidence that trailer safety is a serious problem, yet the legislation was deemed “fit for purpose”. The only consolation was that it would be reviewed after three years, which will be at the end of this year.
Two-and-a-half years into this outrageous piece of legislation, I hope that the Minister has a good understanding now of its impact on road safety, and I would welcome an update from him. Between 2019 and 2021, 50% of light trailers were defective. Can the Minister confirm whether that statistic has changed? What recent data does he hold on defective vehicles? He needs to explain what data will be used to assess the impact of the instrument as part of the review and how this data is being collected.
The impact assessment stated that the overall accident rate would have to rise by an average of 14% per year to negate all the benefits of the legislation. I wonder whether the Minister thinks that a 14% increase in accidents is acceptable. How many people could lose their lives or be seriously injured because of this legislation? Surely we should be trying to make our roads safer, with drivers supported and informed to take all the safety measures they need.
There are some who point to the voluntary accreditation scheme for drivers wishing to tow. That information is available to the proactive, responsible drivers who seek it, but the clue is in the name: it is voluntary. The number of drivers undergoing training has fallen through the floor. Department for Transport data shows that from over 29,000 people in one year taking the mandatory B+E test, we now have fewer than 500 taking up the voluntary scheme in the 18 months since it was introduced —a drop of 98%. That is an astonishing percentage. The very real consequence of that is more unsafe trailers on our roads.
What measures is the Minister taking to increase the number of people accessing the voluntary training? What is the Minister doing to ensure that those who use our roads are trained to tow and understand the dangers of unsafe towing? We need a coherent plan for our roads that recognises the importance of trailer safety. I welcome the Minister’s thoughts on how we can re-embed the findings and actions of the 2019 statutory report on trailer safety into the current roads strategy.
I have very much enjoyed working collaboratively with Ministers to improve trailer safety. Over the past five years, the all-party parliamentary group on trailer and towing safety has worked steadfastly with the Department for Transport to gather data and information. I hope we can take this moment to refresh that relationship and work together to ensure the safety of all who use our roads. Gathering more and better information on the safety of trailers and the skills of those towing them is crucial. It is through the data that we uncovered the scale of the problem in the first place, and it will be through gathering new data that we can pave the way for improvements in the future. Does the Minister agree that this is of the utmost importance? If so, when and how is he planning to collect that new data?
As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on trailer and towing safety, I thank all of my colleagues who have supported and publicised the issue in this place over the past six years. I thank those stakeholders in the towing industry who have done all they can to improve trailer safety—in particular, the contributions of the National Caravan Council and the work of Alicia Dunne at the council have been hugely valuable. Those working in the industry know how important it is to improve trailer safety. Their work in raising awareness and improving driver behaviour and knowledge has been crucial.
Finally, I pay tribute to the incredible bravery of Freddie’s family. I thank them for all they have done to shine a light on this issue and to educate me. If the Minister takes away one thing from today’s debate, I hope that he will remember the lives behind the statistics. Families across the country have been impacted by poor and ill-thought-out legislation—I know that the Minister did not bring the legislation to the House. Improving trailer safety saves lives, and I hope he agrees that we must do all we can to enable drivers to tow safely.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Guy Opperman)
It is an honour and a privilege to respond to the hon. Lady’s thoughtful, heartfelt and impressive speech on an issue that she clearly cares passionately about. She has done herself great credit not just tonight but throughout the long campaign she has waged. I pay massive tribute to her. There is much criticism in this place of all-party groups, but she has provided an example of one that has championed a cause and brought about significant change. It also ensures that its importance to both the families concerned and the wider industry is heard, championed and hopefully acted upon. I wanted to put that first point on the record.
It is patently clear from the hon. Lady’s speech that she cares passionately about this issue. Like many constituency MPs, she is motivated, sadly, by the learned experience of a constituent. I, too, pay due tribute to the Hussey family, who clearly have been through a terrible ordeal and have resolved that good should come out of the tragedy that sadly they have undergone. I pass on my condolences. The hon. Lady’s last comment is entirely right. It is important that in this House, in whatever position, we remember the lived experience of the people who suffer injuries and difficulties, in relation to road safety and all other accidents, up and down the country. Whatever the circumstance, whether it was their fault or otherwise, we must be sensitive to that. None of us has been unaffected by tragedy in our lives. We should remember and be empathetic to that at all stages.
I want to put some points on the record, but I want to cut to the chase on one particular point. I will go through the journey of how we got to where we are in a bit of detail. There will be a three-year review, following the passage of the legislation on 8 November 2021. It is important to understand that, normally, a Government do not review legislation before five years. She knows because she spoke in the debate—I read her comments in the debate on the regulations, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Trudy Harrison) responded, fairly late at night on 8 November—that the legislation arose out of covid. It was a decision made in the circumstances to address the HGV driver shortage. It is accepted that there is a need for a review—that was written in.
The reason that this debate is particularly apposite is simply that the process has begun. This debate and the hon. Lady’s comments bring force to the particular points. I want to assure her that she, her APPG, the individual families and the very worthy organisations that have assisted her will have an opportunity to make representations. They can be made in two ways. They can be written representations to the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency. With all matters government, the Government are responsible for everything. However, in this particular case, she knows that it is an arm’s length body, the DVSA, which runs the process. I have two officials in the Box today who are in charge of that process and I spoke to them beforehand. We most definitely can assure her and interested parties that evidence can be submitted in writing or in person. We are very happy for the DVSA to sit down with her APPG in the summer months, when we return to the House, and listen and take on representations by any individual in any way. If that needs to be done by way of a personal visit, we will do our best to accommodate that in the usual way without necessarily going all over the country, as she will understand.
My point is that we acknowledge and accept that a review needs to be done. I want to stress that all options are available to that review. Often, Ministers respond to that by saying, “Well, I can’t comment on the process of the review.” To a certain extent, I am a bit limited in how I can approach it. Self-evidently, a Minister, whether before or after the general election, will have to make a decision on the recommendation of the DVSA, but a review will unquestionably take place. I have made it very clear to the DVSA that that will need to be published within three years of the date of the passage of the legislation, which as I understand it is 8 November. That is the timeframe. This is the evidence-gathering period. With respect, I hope that is the key point that arises.
Turning to a few particular points arising from the debate, it is not always that case that APPGs have such a close relationship with an arm’s length body which is not part of the Government but also slightly part of Government. What is very clear is that the DVSA and the hon. Lady’s APPG have a very close relationship. I read its submission on 27 February, by way of a written update, to the APPG. It is pretty detailed. I know that they met last year. I would like to think that that will continue apace.
The hon. Lady went through the history in quite a lot of detail. It is obviously the case that in 2018 we made it an offence to tow an unroadworthy trailer and strengthened the penalties. There are roadside vehicle checks to monitor compliance. I attempted to find out exactly how many people are doing the checks on an ongoing basis. I cannot give a definitive day-by-day figure, but it is clearly a significant number of people. I will ensure that, as part of the review, that is set out in detail, because it is right and proper that the public know that a taxpayer-funded, arm’s length body is spending an appropriate amount of time doing those checks. I have read the submission made in detail to the APPG in February. I stand by every part of that, and I do not think that there is any point I would wish to amplify. On the most recent statistics, the timing is not brilliant because the 2023-24 trailer safety survey, with the enforcement stats, effectively concludes on 31 March. We will know the annual figure at the end of this month, but it will be available and appropriate for the review.
On the reasons behind the removal of the B test, it is unquestionably the case that that was one of the 33 measures put in place to address the heavy goods vehicle driver shortage. The Department for Transport and the arm’s length body are considering a number of different actions as a result of what was, quite clearly, a fairly speedy piece of legislation to address a moment of great critical importance.
The hon. Lady is clearly aware of the change and what it allowed, and of the industry-led accredited training scheme, so I will not repeat what she has already said in her speech. As she rightly pointed out, the take-up of the training has not been as we would have liked it to be, and that obviously needs to be addressed. The DVSA is committed to supporting the scheme by seeking further opportunities to promote the accredited training route—increasing awareness of the benefits of doing so, sending clear messages about the importance of safety, and generally doing everything possible in a host of ways, ranging from social media to instructions to organisations —in order to enhance and increase both training uptake and safe towing practices.
The hon. Lady is also aware of the two surveys that have been conducted, the first in February 2023 and the second in June of that year. The DVSA engaged in extensive work with the Trailer Training Advisory Group to devise the questions and topics for the second survey, and to consider the results. It received 1,000 responses—a significant number—and promoted its findings during the National Trailer and Towing Association’s Trailer Safety Week in June 2023.
The hon. Lady rightly spoke of the efforts that will be necessary in the future. Following the accumulation of evidence, the DVSA has identified target groups for the purpose of its communications, with leisure users the main target audience for the current year. As we approach the towing season, it will engage the caravan and leisure industry; indeed, that process has already begun, because Easter is not far away.
Karin Smyth
I am grateful to the Minister for his diligence and his respect for this issue, and for examining the history behind it. I look forward to working with him further and taking up his offer to follow it through with his officials. I am glad that that is in train, and that a bit more light is being shone on the issue. I think that this will give some reassurance to people following the debate, and I look forward to being part of it.
Guy Opperman
I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. I want to emphasise that this is a constructive process. It is in all our interests to ensure that it has the assurance and understanding of the House, and that the appropriate balance is struck between legislation and any freedoms that may or may not be enjoyed.
Let me say a little about the extent of the instruction and advice. The DVSA will explore ways of targeting people at various points in the towing journey—I do not think that that is quite how it should have been phrased—including the point of sale of a trailer or caravan, whether it is new or second-hand; obviously acquisition is a key factor. There will be interventions at various stages of journeys and at destinations. The purpose is to ensure that safety considerations are at the forefront of drivers’ minds at crucial points in their journeys.
We have the opportunity this year to address these issues and to reach a view on what is the appropriate way forward, but I believe that the appropriate way forward is for the independent arm’s length body to go away and do its work, taking on as much evidence as it sees fit but starting with an open mind, looking at all aspects of the process. That will include safety, and all the benefits and burdens stemming from the legislation that I mentioned earlier. I commit myself to building on the progress that has been made, but also to continuing to examine the policy closely, gathering the data and ensuring that messages are communicated effectively to reach the right audience.
I thank the hon. Lady again for initiating the debate. I endorse her comments on previous occupants of my post who have worked constructively with her and with the all-party parliamentary group, and I commend this debate to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
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(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Minister for Defence People and Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
… In November 2019, again ahead of schedule, we reached our further target of establishing 500 new cadet units across the United Kingdom.
[Official Report, 18 March 2024, Vol. 747, c. 780.]
Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence People and Families, the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison):
An error has been identified in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland) in the Adjournment debate on the Cadet Expansion Programme. The correct information is as follows:
The Minister for Defence People and Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
… In November 2019, again ahead of schedule, we reached our further target of establishing 500 cadet units across the United Kingdom.
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Easter and Christian Culture
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Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Easter, Christian culture and heritage.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting me the time in this great hall. I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister from the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to this debate on Easter and Christian culture and heritage.
Easter is one of the two most important dates in the Christian calendar, and one that I hope we will all be celebrating next weekend. The cross symbolises what Christ did for us on Good Friday, which is wrapped up in the most famous verse of the Bible, John 3:16:
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
We celebrate on Easter Sunday the resurrection of Christ, giving us not just a God, but a living God to believe in, to worship, to help us and to make us right with Him, with the promise of eternal life. What a wonderful gift.
I have said much of this in my previous speeches on Christianity, so let me just say that within much of our heritage is woven our historical Christian past, and it is therefore extremely important not just to this place but to our nation as a whole. It is the “Christian culture” part of this debate’s title that I will spend my time on today.
As we know, much rhetoric is expended on culture wars, at least in this place. This, in my understanding, refers to what people believe in. As a Christian, I am told through scripture to love everyone; I try to do so, but often fail, so I can understand the concerns of others when they see beliefs and practices that are not the so-called British way. Some may not believe in progressive ideologies; I understand that. Some may believe that those who have joined us from other nations should embrace our British way of life; I understand that, too. That got me thinking. What exactly is our culture? What is our British way of life?
Like most people these days, when I do not know an answer or I am unsure of a definition, I google it, so I did, and this is what Google said:
“The culture of the United Kingdom is influenced by its combined nations’ history; its historically Christian religious life, its interaction with the cultures of Europe, the individual cultures of England, Wales and Scotland and the impact of the British Empire.”
There is a glaring omission: what about Northern Ireland? Perhaps the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) can take that up with Google, because it is important. But there we have it, according to Google. There are three words in there that I believe to be very important, but I will come back to them.
I scrolled down a little further on the search engine and found numerous sites, all listing their top 10 ideas of things that make our British culture. These are some of the things that apparently make us British: the royal family, our cuisine, the English breakfast, our love of a curry and fish and chips, how we like to queue, the pub, our humour—mainly sarcasm and banter—a cup of tea, sport, the BBC, and so the list goes on. Then I thought of a scene in the film “Love Actually”. There are a few scenes in there I do not like—I will not go into those now—but who can forget the one in No. 10? No, not the singing and dancing Prime Minister. Do we think our Prime Minister sings and dances in there when he is on his own? I can assure the House that if I am ever Prime Minister, I will. If my right hon. Friend is listening —I hope he is—I should add that, no, I am not after your job, sir. The scene I mean is the one where Hugh Grant, who plays the Prime Minister, tells the US President what he thinks. He says:
“We may be a small country, but we’re a great one, too. The country of Shakespeare, Churchill, the Beatles, Sean Connery, Harry Potter. David Beckham’s right foot. David Beckham’s left foot, come to that.”
I have to admit that the first time I saw this, it brought a lump to my throat. I felt genuinely proud to be British.
As good as all those things are, and some are truly wonderful, one thing that binds most of them together is that they are ways in which we enjoy ourselves, whether it is reading the sonnets—“Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day? Not really me—watching our favourite team or player, eating our favourite food, or just simply having a laugh down the pub, which is definitely me. But are they really our culture? I am not so sure. Does not everyone the world round enjoy entertainment of some kind? No, I think our culture goes back to those three words I spoke about earlier—Christian religious life.
I have mentioned the royal family. Our King is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, the state Church, so he is extremely important to our Christian religious life. I also mentioned Sir Winston Churchill, who did so much to defend and preserve our way of life, as have our armed forces over the centuries. But what is our culture? I believe it is not quite Christian religious life, but more our Christian way of life—the Christian way of life that has enabled us to live in freedom in this wonderful country. And trust me, it is a wonderful country, but it is even more than that—much more. It is about a life with Jesus and what that life offers, not just to the individual but to society as a whole.
Sadly, when mankind removes God from the equation, mankind resorts to its base nature. Man’s base nature is not what we think it should be—it is not good. Watching two infants play, we often see them snatch and not want to share. We must admit that we are all born at least a little selfish, if nothing worse, which is the start— the start of a life that can often lead to things going drastically wrong without correction.
If the teachings of the Christian way of life are slowly eroded, which I believe they have been, I am afraid that each generation will fall further away from our God. Life can and will definitely get worse for us all.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. He talks about culture and the changing generations. We met a group of people yesterday—the Christian creators, I think they called themselves—who broadcast their Christian views on TikTok. That is very different from my form of worship, but does my hon. Friend agree that they are getting the message across? Is that not an example of how Christianity will continue through the generations?
Nick Fletcher
My hon. Friend is right. The group of Christian creators on TikTok we met yesterday were wonderful. It was a joy to meet these fantastic young people, who are all spreading the word of the Lord through social media.
Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)
I am struck by my hon. Friend’s reflection on a Christian way of life. In the UK, we are very fortunate to have giants in our history—people such as Josiah Wedgwood, Lord Shaftesbury and William Wilberforce—who improved the lives of thousands, millions potentially, of the poor, the oppressed and the enslaved, and who all claimed a strong Christian faith as a motivating factor. Does my hon. Friend agree that, as a country, we are freer, more equal and better off for the influence of those Christian figures in our history?
Nick Fletcher
I agree with every single word of my hon. Friend’s contribution. As I said, this is not just about society’s relationship with Christianity; it is the individual’s relationship with Christ that gives them the strength to do wonderful things for society as a whole. My hon. Friend mentioned three wonderful people who were all devout Christians.
Our need for something to believe in is always present and if it is not in the Christian teachings and God, what is it in? If we have no faith or turn our back on faith, we search for something to fill the void. Often, we start looking inwards. We start to lust after things that are not good for us. Like a drug, we may get a quick hit of happiness, but it is soon gone. Some may ask, “Where is the proof?” Here is the proof: with all the ways we have to entertain ourselves and spend our time, how many people in the UK are struggling with their mental health? Despite all those wonderful things Google thinks make us British and that I have spoken about, we have so many unhappy people. Why?
The Bible is clear: it tells us that if we turn our back on God, He will give us up to our natural state. We become filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil and greed. We gossip and speak badly of one another. We become proud and boastful and, when young, disobey our parents. It teaches us that we lose our conscience and do not keep our promises. We show no kindness or pity for others and become unforgiving souls. If we turn our back on God, He will give us up, and I think that in many places in society he may already have done so.
How did this happen? I remember many people calling anyone who believed in Christ a Bible-basher, a God botherer, and many laughed; I was called one myself. Then Christians were told, “It’s okay that you believe, but don’t ram it down my throat,” so guess what? That happened. In many quarters, the Church listened, Christians listened, and I listened, too. Many of us stopped talking about God for fear of being accused of ramming it down other people’s throats—not that other people seem concerned about sharing their beliefs. What is worse is those who do not want a faith did appear to want others not to have a faith either. Christians have been ridiculed on the big stage across the country, and now many believers have been too quiet for too long.
In the recent 2021 census, for the first time in England and Wales, less than half the population described themselves as Christian and 37.2% of people said they had no religion. Is there a connection with there being so much unhappiness, so many young and old dealing with mental health issues, and so many searching for hope often through sources that are not healthy in any manner of the word? Many vicars may feel they are just going through the motions, even feeling lost in their work preaching to empty pews. We even have many denominations trying to become progressive, or “relevant”, to fill those empty seats, and many are moving further away from God’s word. The meaning of scripture is often misinterpreted to reflect current trends, instead of holding firm and letting the Bible be the guide for our people to look to. It appears that the loudest voices continue to win.
I am often told in this job, “Let’s look at the outcome.” That is a fair point, so let us do so. The outcome is that a vacuum has been created that was always going to have to be filled. The question is, with what? First, we have filled it with seven-days-a-week shopping, 24-hour TV, the internet, the iPhone and, for those who have really lost their way, a host of illegal activities. Secondly, it has been filled with contested views and so-called progressive ideologies that not only vilify our past but demand reparations. Ideologies confuse our present through the indoctrination of our children with gender questioning, and through climate change zealots who are not pragmatic in their views, but seem intent only on terrifying people about our world’s future. Really, we should be proud of our nation’s history, content in our present and optimistic for our future, especially when we have a faith grounded in Jesus Christ.
Thirdly, something that is not necessarily filling the vacuum, but is taking a place in our society is the beliefs of other people who have made Britain their home—our next-door neighbours. Their way of living, their faith and their culture are growing, not through force—most, like us, are kind people—but because they have something to believe in and maybe because they see nothing else. Many visitors must be amazed at the apathy with which many of us regard our own culture. We want people to embrace it, but have we let it go? Have we let it go because we have let God go?
If we continue on that trajectory or fuel it with even more secular views, we will no doubt see the swift end of what many believe is British culture. When I google British culture, it might instead speak of multiculturalism, which many will say is good, but I am sure it will also be even more of a mix of nonsense that is grounded in ways to entertain ourselves and those contested progressive ideologies. It does not have to be that way.
The Department that has responsibility for communities has a role to play here. It has an interest in helping to protect our history. The Government have a duty to protect our young people from the nonsense they see on their phones that creates their confusion. The Government have done much with the Online Safety Act 2023, but can and should do more. A Department that has responsibility for communities can surely use its budget to help Christian churches and community groups, not stop them receiving money because of tick-box exercises that do not match secular belief. It can bring the schools, churches and community together through the things that make us British—our King, a cup of tea, a game of cricket, a beer in the pub, David Beckham’s left foot. I am sure there must be a way the Department can do much more to promote faith and family and our Christian heritage, values and way of life.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
I commend my hon. Friend on promoting this magnificent debate, so well timed in advance of Easter. I am sure he agrees with me that our entire heritage—the foundations of our laws, customs and conventions and our entire British way of life—is founded on the Christian heritage of these islands. Although we cherish the principle of freedom of religion for all and respect for people of no faith and other faiths, it is nevertheless the Christian foundations that have allowed a free society to develop, where anyone can choose the life they lead. We should therefore defend that Christian heritage because if we undermine it, we undermine the entire free society that so many generations have built.
Nick Fletcher
My hon. Friend said in 30 seconds what has taken me 18 minutes to say, so I thank him for his contribution. He is completely right.
As I was saying, I am sure there must be a way the Department can do much more to promote faith and family and our Christian heritage, values and way of life; encourage the country’s people to look out for each other instead of focusing inwards; embrace a culture of forgiveness and love for all our neighbours; and lead the nation to speak proudly of its past. The formidable Douglas Murray once urged people to have “an attitude of gratitude”. A nation that knows the boundaries of right and wrong sets them in stone so that we all know where we are and that no means no, not maybe, especially when speaking to and guiding our young. That is a nation where opportunity is available to all for the better of all. I want a nation’s people that believes what CS Lewis once stated:
“Aim at Heaven and you will get Earth ‘thrown in’: aim at Earth and you will get neither.”
Can we not do all that while letting those who have called our shores home enjoy their culture, too? I think we can and we should.
If our Christian culture with its faith and families shines like the beacon of hope that it should, the ideologies and desires that are often negative will be starved of oxygen and will fall away one by one. The new people we welcome will see our culture and maybe even want to be a part of it, too.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
I endorse my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) on securing this debate. He is articulating the fact that the most corrosive force in our country now is nihilism and the moral relativism associated with it. We hear people speaking not of truth, but of their truth, as though truth could be negotiated. But truth cannot be negotiated; it is an absolute, and is embodied in the message of Christianity.
Nick Fletcher
I thank my right hon. Friend for his contribution. I know that he believes, as I do, that the truth is in the Bible and is in the name of Jesus Christ.
If the Christian culture of faith and family shines like the beacon of hope that it should be, the ideologies and desires that can often be negative will be starved of oxygen. The new people we welcome will see our culture and may want to be a part of it. I know that this sounds utopian, but we are told that faith can move mountains. We must admit that we have a mountain to move.
My faith only grows stronger day by day. When I look for the good, not the bad, in everyone I meet, it gets stronger. I know that I am a sinner. I have turned my back on God before, but 15 years ago I gave my life to Jesus forever, and I know that He is with me now. I know that at Easter, Jesus died on a cross for me—yes, for me, and for you. Through my repentance and my belief in Him, I am saved. Although that fills me with great joy, I want all the world to know that Jesus loves them, too. I want the people of this nation to fix their eyes on heaven, not on themselves or their earthly desires. I want them to believe in a living God, not fashionable ideologies.
This Easter will our Government promote celebrating what Christ did for us on the cross on Good Friday, and His resurrection on Easter Sunday? Will they encourage the nation to go to church and embrace our Christian culture? If the people do so, and if they search and listen, they will find God, too. He is waiting with open arms. The angels are ready to sing for every sinner who repents and believes in our Lord.
If the Government get this right, we will all instinctively know what our British culture is. God will not turn his back on us. He will hold and love us, and the culture wars will be no more. Can the Minister imagine being part of a Government who eradicated the culture wars and got the country to be proud of its past, content with its present and sure of its future in Christ? There is a challenge. If the Minister and the Government wish to take it, I will be right behind them, and so will millions of Christians across this land.
Happy Easter. God bless us all, and God bless our country.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
I have to start by congratulating my hon. Friend the wonderful Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher). In the short time he has been in the House, he has proved himself a superb Member of Parliament and has become embedded in his community in Doncaster. I salute his courage in applying for this debate, the third such debate that he has secured. I am not aware of anyone else, in the many years I have been in the House, who has had the courage to promote such debates.
Politicians are naturally averse to talking about their faith. I suppose they think that if they talk about their faith, they may be putting themselves on some kind of pedestal and that, being sinners as we all are, they will eventually be brought down and mocked. But my hon. Friend expressed himself in such a humble, forgiving and self-deprecatory way that nobody could accuse him of putting himself on a pedestal. He was simply trying to make the very powerful point, which too few of us have the courage to make, that Christianity is at the very heart of our nation and its history. So much of what has made us such a great nation and a wonderful place to live is embedded in Christianity. So many of our freedoms relate to Christianity.
Of course, people will criticise the history of Christianity and the way Christians treated and persecuted one another in the past. We all know that, but undoubtedly what has made this nation is the Christian faith. That is not to belittle other faiths; one thing I liked about my hon. Friend’s speech was that he was complimentary about people of all faiths. It is no accident that the great religions of the world—whether that is Islam, Judaism or Christianity—all have the same kind of moral code. In promoting Christianity, he was not trying to downplay the importance and the wonder of all of the other religions.
Our forebears who made this building—I think a lot about this, because I serve on the restoration and renewal board—knew this. When we walk around this building, we see Christian iconography scattered all over it. Only this morning I was showing some visitors around the Robing Room in the House of Lords. The paintings on the walls depict compassion, mercy and forgiveness, all of which are Christian concepts.
My hon. Friend is very courageous. I know that Alastair Campbell once said, “We don’t do God,” and most politicians—certainly those who want to get to the top of politics—are very wary of the subject, but I think it is important that just occasionally there are people of courage such as my hon. Friend who are prepared to speak up.
There is such a rich and different tradition in Christianity. Only yesterday, my hon. Friend was telling me about the evangelical church he goes to in Doncaster, where there is a tremendous spirit. Some people might call it happy-clappy; I would not say that. He told me that his church is extraordinarily successful. The churches that are successful and growing are the ones that are self-confident and, as he says, rooted firmly in the Bible. During their services, they do not necessarily talk about our secular world and how we can make it a happy place, but they root themselves in the Bible.
I come from a Christian tradition very different from that of my hon. Friend. I am not an evangelical; I do not talk about Jesus in the way he does. I am a Catholic. But it is interesting that the successful Catholic churches in this country are those that are increasingly rooted in our ancient Catholic traditions. Many young people are flocking to the Catholic churches that are resurrecting the beautiful ancient mass. They seem to be self-confident. I am not a member of the Church of England, so I suppose it is not for me to offer it advice or even criticise it, but I think that there is a message there for our established Church.
We should be very proud to be one of the very few countries in the world that has an established Church. Above all, we should keep the established Church as established and we should keep bishops in the House of Lords. The Church of England leadership—I make no criticism of the people who are working on the ground—are wonderful people, and I quite understand where they are coming from, but sometimes, dare I say it, they feel that they have to wade in on politics. They have a right to do that, just as I have a right to wade in on religion, but perhaps they need to remember that in this country and in any country there is a tremendous yearning for spirituality.
One of the problems with the decline of Christianity and of faith in general—we have to accept that this is now one of the most secular countries in the world—is that if there is a vacuum, other movements step in and the whole country becomes unhappier and more difficult to govern. In a place like India, even though there are villages with levels of unimaginable poverty, they are not necessarily less happy than we are. In many ways they are happier, because they have that spiritual grounding that so many people in this country do not have.
There is so much of importance in what my hon. Friend says. I do not really want to inject a negative note, but—
Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)
It strikes that my right hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) are describing something bigger and more enduring than much of what we concern ourselves with as politicians. Does my right hon. Friend agree that a dislocation from those eternal and enduring beliefs or values is perhaps giving us a sense of drift or lack of purpose in society today?
Sir Edward Leigh
Yes, we have to recognise that there is a sense of drift and pessimism in society. However, this debate is about Easter, which is the great feast of the Resurrection—the great feast of hope. It is wonderful that my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley has expressed himself in such a positive way.
Like my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes), I represent the most beautiful and wonderful county in England, namely Lincolnshire. We have the finest medieval churches in the country: in every single village in my constituency there are wonderful expressions of piety, faith and hope, built hundreds of years ago. I sympathise with the Church of England, which has to maintain that huge structure. My hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley has asked the Government to do many things. I think that even this wonderful Minister may find it difficult to recreate this country as a faith-loving community, but one thing that the Government can do is to help and enable the Church of England to preserve that amazing heritage. In France, for instance, all churches built before 1900 are funded by the state. The Church of England is on its own, which is a tremendous burden. It is to be commended for keeping this wonderful architectural heritage going.
I will, again, make a gentle criticism of the Church of England. I am very much on the side of the Save the Parish movement and on the side of the Church of England putting whatever resources it has into the parish ministry. There is some criticism that in the Church of England, resources are being diverted away from the parishes and into the centre, and too many people are being hired at the centre.
To give one example, the diocese of York is advertising for a racial justice education adviser. The job specification elaborates that the role will cover unconscious bias and diversity training. The concept of “unconscious bias” has no evidential basis in scientific, psychological or medical research. It has been years since the Government dropped it from the civil service. In 2020, the Government Equalities Office commissioned the behavioural insights team to summarise the evidence on unconscious bias and diversity training. Its report highlighted that
“there is currently no evidence that this training changes behaviour in the long term or improves workplace equality in terms of representation of women, ethnic minorities or other minority groups”.
It further pointed out that there is emerging evidence of unintended negative consequences of that training.
I know that the Minister cannot answer on behalf of the Church of England, but perhaps the Government have a role here. We see the Church, quangos, charities, civil society groups and corporations adopting this training. Perhaps the Government can take a lead in enlightening them not only that is it nonsense, but that it can often lead to the opposite of the intended result. Indeed, it may lead to something perverse. I have mentioned one example from the diocese of York, but I am sure that a search of the vacancies posted on the websites of other Anglican dioceses would find many such cases.
I am sorry to make that point; I do not mean to criticise the Church of England, which is a superb institution that is doing wonderful work all over the country. There is, however, a slight tendency at the centre of the Church of England to move in the direction that I have been talking about, which I do not think is central to its purpose of making us a more spiritual nation.
Before I sit down, may I pay tribute to the late Lord Cormack? Christianity, culture and heritage, in any combination, were his lifeblood. He was the founder of the all-party parliamentary arts and heritage group. In the real world, he was a valiant fighter. He co-founded Heritage in Danger in 1974. He was one of the central figures who prevented Hereford cathedral from selling off its magnificent mappa mundi in 1988 to pay for repairs. Lord Cormack was a warden at Parliament’s own parish church, St Margaret’s, across Palace Yard. He served for a decade on the Church of England’s General Synod. His compassion and service were not limited to the Church of England; he was a leading campaigner for Soviet Jews in the 1970s and 1980s, and was granted an honorary doctorate by the Catholic University of America.
Next Monday, we will gather at Lincoln cathedral to bid Lord Cormack farewell for the final time, and there could be no more appropriate setting for that great parliamentarian. I know myself from my decade serving on Lincoln cathedral’s council how pressed for resources the great churches of England are. I believe it is vital that the Government, whether through direct heritage funding or via agencies such as the national lottery, support our churches to protect their architectural heritage. Last year we celebrated the 39 different projects in Catholic churches that were funded thanks to Historic England’s heritage stimulus fund, part of the Government’s culture recovery fund. I was pleased to see Lord Parkinson, the Heritage Minister, there alongside the Lord Speaker and our own Mr Deputy Speaker. The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales produced a splendid booklet called “Living Stones: A Celebration of Achievement”, detailing all the works completed thanks to that funding.
The important thing to remember about those buildings, whether they are great cathedrals or the tiniest gospel hall, is not the stones, bricks and mortar. As the First Epistle of Peter tells us, we Christians are to be living stones upon which a spiritual house is built. What we have to offer this country is not just an architectural heritage or a service of care and relief for the poor. The resurrection, and the faith built upon it, is the reason for all that. Without that, our history and our heritage is meaningless.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
Thank you for calling me to speak in this significant debate in Westminster Hall, Dr Huq. I again commend my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) for calling this debate as we approach the Eastertide period. May I also say what a privilege it is to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh)? Throughout his many years in this House, he has demonstrated clear Christian leadership in so many areas of British life. I thank him for the service he has given to this House and to our country, always standing up for the Christian heritage of the United Kingdom. It is that which I want to refer to today, because the title of this debate is Easter, Christian culture and heritage.
We can talk about religion, and we have done, and so we should—my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley rightly made that the focus of his speech—but the cultural side is also vital. Not everybody in these islands considers themselves to be Christian: many have no faith; many have different faiths; many are unsure where they stand. However, I believe that what most people stand strongly for is the upholding of the heritage that goes with the Christian faith—the culture; our customs; our way of life; our laws, which are founded on Christian teachings; our constitution; our monarchy; our flag. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough mentioned, all the great national symbols of this nation have Christian symbols embedded within them. One only needs to look at the crown that His Majesty wore in the coronation, only a year ago. On the top of that crown is a cross. It is there for a purpose, because it signifies the foundations of our society.
We have an established Church, and I am glad we do, because having the Church of England as our established Church protects all other religions and denominations to worship freely in a free society without being persecuted, belittled, sidelined or attacked in any way. We have a society in which freedom of religion is cherished and protected under the rule of law. Having an established Church prevents sectarianism and prevents different religions from vying for power or domination, because everyone accepts that our King is the head of the Church, and that the Christian faith has made the foundations of our society. Everybody can worship freely under that framework. That is why I strongly support the Church of England as both the religious leadership of this country and part of the culture of our nation.
It is right that in schools, young people are able to sing hymns. It is right that at the start of a meal, we say grace. That is part of our heritage as well. It is right that we celebrate Easter, Christmas, Whitsun and all the magnificent religious holidays that we officially recognise in this country. Long may that remain so. I would be deeply unhappy if there were ever a question of days such as Good Friday, Christmas day or Whitsun not being formally recognised as public holidays. Good Friday should be a day when people reflect, when there is solemn feeling, and when we consider why we are celebrating Easter and why we are sad on Good Friday, the day that Jesus was crucified.
Robin Millar
I was struck by the fact that my hon. Friend described Christianity as a source and not an addition, a bolt-on or a replaceable extra in the culture and heritage of our country.
Andrew Rosindell
My hon. Friend is exactly right, and that brings me to some of the points that I would like to make.
Christianity is everywhere around us. We may not be a Christian; there are people who are not Christians, but the Christian culture of British society is everywhere, and to remove that would undermine the foundations of our society. One only needs to think back in history. The Vikings came to these islands a thousand years ago, but it was the Christian faith that united England under the banner of King Alfred and then of King Æthelstan. It is St George who is the embodiment of England, and we will be celebrating St George’s day on 23 April. As chairman of the Houses of Parliament branch of the Royal Society of Saint George, I will be hosting, I hope, an event in Parliament for all Members to celebrate the heritage of England. That includes hon. Friends from other parts of these islands, especially Scotland.
Of course, our national anthem is a prayer itself—a prayer to God. The de facto anthem of England is, of course, “Jerusalem”. It is not officially recognised, but nevertheless I think “Jerusalem” is the hymn that most people sing when we celebrate England, and English heritage and culture. Of course, our monarch is anointed in Westminster Abbey, and our royal motto translates to “God and my right”.
The Bible has transformed the way our civilisation has operated, through law, governance, art, architecture and so many other areas of life. It has shaped the way all Britons—everybody in this country, including those with no religion—think about family, community and morality. It was through the lens of the Christian faith that we were the first nation on the planet not only to outlaw slavery permanently, but to enforce that ban worldwide through the West Africa Squadron.
We do indeed have a proud history, based on our Christian heritage and our Christian customs—long may they continue. But it has not always been quite so straightforward. I have been a Member of Parliament for 23 years. In my second year as a Member of Parliament, there was almost outrage when some local authorities suggested that the hot cross bun should be banned, can you believe? I remember it happening; I think it was in 2003. There was political correctness even then. I think it is probably worse today: anything can offend anybody, and that is dangerous because then we lose our heritage.
I remember that in 2002, we had to table an early-day motion to defend the hot cross bun. I am sorry that my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) has left the room, as he was one of those who signed the EDM. I will remind the House of what it said:
“That this House is appalled at the decision by some local authorities in the United Kingdom to ban hot cross buns from schools; believes the hot cross bun to be a splendid Easter tradition that represents the Christian heritage of Britain; and encourages all schools in the United Kingdom to ignore such politically correct advice from local authorities and continue to serve hot cross buns.”
Only yesterday, I was delighted to enjoy the hot cross buns offered to Members of Parliament in the Tea Room, but I must say to my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley that that little thing, all those years ago, alarmed me—that so many perfectly innocent parts of our culture can be undermined by people who seem to want to take away so much of what we hold dear in these islands, and which our ancestors, our forebears, have fought to defend over so many generations.
Sir Edward Leigh
My hon. Friend makes a very important point, which I wanted to raise earlier. It is very important that we should defend the right of people to speak their mind freely about religion. So, we should defend the right of Richard Dawkins, atheist, to attack religious people or religions in general. We have got to also defend the right of religious people to have their space, whether it is Orthodox Jews, or devout Muslims, or evangelical Christians. We must also defend the right of people, not just to attack religion or religious people in general, but also to criticise particular religions. There is a sort of dumbing down of debate and people are afraid, increasingly, to express their viewpoint, but in a vigorous democracy there must be this freedom of expression.
Andrew Rosindell
My right hon. Friend is completely correct. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion go hand-in-hand. It is of course right in a free society that anybody can criticise a religion for the teachings that it espouses, but equally, we have the right to believe something completely different and be tolerant to one another in a free society. That is the nature of religion. People do have different opinions; people do have different perspectives. People are raised in different ways; they come from different ancestry. People come from different heritage, different countries, and have other religions. I defend that. That is one of the fundamental things that make us British—that we defend freedom of religion. We should never lose that. We should not be afraid to debate these things or have different opinions, and to criticise people because they have a different opinion. We can discuss and debate, but we must always allow opinions to be expressed. For if we lose that ability to speak freely and to disagree with each other in a polite and gentlemanly way, I am afraid that we lose so much of what our society is about. So, long may freedom of speech and freedom of religion go hand-in-hand together.
Before I conclude my remarks, I would like to say one or two things about my constituency. I was christened and confirmed at the church of St Edward the Confessor, a most magnificent church in the centre of Romford market. Every year we have magnificent Easter celebrations. On Good Friday there has been a march of witness, which I have always attended since being a Member of Parliament. In recent times, we have had open-air services with all the churches within the town centre, led by St Edward’s church, which is the main church in Romford. On Palm Sunday in recent years, a donkey has appeared, making its way through the market square and into the church, as we have gathered for that significant day in the Christian calendar.
I want to pay tribute to the Reverend Father David Simpson, who was the parish priest for the last few years. Having retired two weeks ago, he is now working for the Mission to Seafarers. I pay tribute to his service to the people as vicar of Romford, leading our church and playing such a significant role in the community. I know that hon. and right hon. Friends will wish him well with his future career as he becomes a pastor to seafarers based in Felixstowe, carrying out his mission for the seafarers of our country, and indeed the whole world.
Robin Millar
My hon. Friend is being very generous and I thank him for giving way a second time. Again, it seems to me that, in rightly paying tribute to the institutions and individuals in his own constituency—something that every other Member present could doubtless do— he is showing again how much Christianity is a part of the fabric of our society, and how it is steeped in those traditions and rituals, many of which we will have forgotten or overlooked for their familiarity. They are there none the less and are an inherent part of British culture and society.
Andrew Rosindell
Indeed, they are part of our way of life, and long may that be the case. As Members of Parliament, we understand how important it is in our constituencies to engage with our churches and faith groups—of all religions, by the way—especially those that represent the local culture and heritage of our individual constituencies. I certainly do that in Romford: I am very proud to be a member of St Edward the Confessor Church and I pay tribute to its work over many centuries. In fact, Her late Majesty the Queen visited the church in 2003, a year after her golden jubilee, and I was very honoured to meet her in Romford on that occasion.
I also pay tribute to the parish church of St. Alban Protomartyr and the Reverend Father Roderick Hingley, who has raised hundreds of thousands of pounds to restore the church with magnificent artwork depicting the stations of the cross, with magnificent candlesticks and stained-glass windows, and to refurbish the church and its hall in general. What a magnificent leader of our community Father Hingley has been, and his extension by the Church of England to continue in post for a few more years has been most welcome.
However, I worry about the divisions that exist in the Church of England. I want the Church of England to be strong and to uphold the Christian heritage. Of course, there are different ways of worshipping within the Church of England, but we must ensure that the Church is still there for all people and that it is not allowed to become a divided organisation. We must try to bring the Church of England together, because it is the Church that represents the state. The King is the head of the Church and that provides an incredibly important structure to retaining the Christian heritage of our nation.
In closing, I would like to finally say that, when I became a Member of Parliament, I was proud to swear the Oath of Allegiance to the Queen. I have done so ever since at each occasion, and I did so only recently to His Majesty the King. I believe in the importance of having Prayers at the start of our proceedings in the House of Commons, and it is vital that we retain those traditions and conventions. We all have a duty to protect people of all faiths in our constituencies, and to always remember that the law of this country affords us freedom of religion, which is there for everyone to cherish. That is the nature of the United Kingdom. It is a foundation of all parts of the British isles, and long may all Members of this House defend that heritage.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. I warmly congratulate the hon. Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) on securing the debate. It does not seem like it was that long since we were taking part in the debate that he led on the significance of “Christmas, Christianity and communities”, perhaps for the simple reason that it was not actually that long ago. The date of Easter, as the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) will well know, is calculated using a formula known as the computus, which identifies the first Sunday after the full moon occurs on or after the spring equinox. That means that this year Easter is almost as early as it possibly can be under that formula. We are about as close to Christmas as we can be since that last debate a little over three months or so ago.
It is not an accident that the two great feasts of the Christian calendar occur when they do. Christmas, which celebrates the birth of Jesus, who Christians consider to be the light of the world, comes just after the winter solstice, when the days begin to get longer and darkness is overcome. Easter, which marks the death and resurrection of Christ, follows the spring equinox, when new life begins to bloom in nature. The date of Easter is also linked to the Jewish observation of Passover, because the gospel tells us that the last supper, crucifixion and resurrection all took place around the time of Passover observations in Jerusalem. Just as Passover commemorates the liberation of the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt, Christians mark Easter as the liberation of humanity from slavery to the trappings of this world, which would separate us from the love of God.
This is a particularly holy and special time of year for those who profess the Christian faith. Indeed, it is the time of year when many Christian Churches, particularly the Catholic Church, welcome new adults who have chosen to seek baptism and confirmation into full communion of the Church. It is a time of great joy for those individuals, their families and the communities and parishes that they will join, and I am sure that we want to keep all those making that journey this year in our thoughts and prayers.
Easter comes after the period of Lent, which is a time of reflection, prayer, fasting and almsgiving—practices also being observed at this time by our Muslim brothers and sisters observing the holy month of Ramadan. I always hold those who keep the Ramadan fast in the highest regard; I find swearing off certain food and drink for six weeks during Lent difficult enough, but I would find abstaining entirely from any kind of nourishment during daylight hours, including water, incredibly difficult.
However, the joy of Easter is not confined just to celebrations in church buildings and parish halls. Those practices and observations are all about more than just what happens during the particular seasons. Christians, the Muslim community and those of other faiths who practice similar traditions see them as preparation for service throughout the year and, indeed, throughout their lives. Faithful witness is about not just words, but deeds. We can see examples of that in our communities already, and we have heard examples from Members who have spoken today. I assure the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) that I will be happy to celebrate St George’s day with him, particularly in solidarity with friends in Catalonia, who also recognise St George as their patron saint.
Andrew Rosindell
I thank the hon. Member for giving that commitment to celebrate St George’s day, on one condition: that he organises a celebration for St Andrew’s day on 30 November. I do not think that we have ever had one in Parliament; I have certainly not attended one. I am sure that we would be delighted if there was one for all patron saints of the British Isles.
Patrick Grady
The hon. Member is right. We all know that each of the patron saints of the nations of the United Kingdom are depicted in Central Lobby. I do not think that any Church has designated one saint for the whole of the United Kingdom, probably for quite important diplomatic and theological reasons. If the House is sitting in November—who knows what might happen towards the end of the year that may cause it not to sit, or to cause some change in its composition—perhaps that is something to consider. Incidentally, SNP Opposition days quite often fall around St Andrew’s day; I will leave others to consider whether that is by accident or design. I also have some sympathy with what the hon. Member said about hot cross buns. I try to abstain from hot cross buns until Good Friday itself, then I very much enjoy them after attending the Good Friday services.
However, the debate is about all our different communities. In Glasgow North, such prophetic witness is visible in the activities of many of the Christian Churches and other faith-based organisations. I have spoken before about the food bank at St Gregory’s church in Wyndford, which is staffed by dedicated volunteers and gratefully receives donations from not just the parish community, but people of all faiths and none and businesses across Maryhill. However, it still struggles to meet demand. A particular proportion of the need that it meets comes from the refugee and asylum seeking community in the area—people who are hungry and looking for food, those who are thirsty and looking for drink, those who are sick and need visiting, and those who are strangers and need taking in. Some Members will recognise that Jesus says in Matthew 25 that those who carry out such works for “the least of” his brothers and sisters do so also for him.
I pay tribute to the work of the Maryhill integration network, which helps to provide access to culturally sensitive and religiously appropriate sources of food and nutrition to those who arrive in our city, sometimes with nothing but the clothes on their back. I also pay tribute to those in Glasgow North and elsewhere who are motivated by their faith to work for peace and justice around the world. I think particularly of the work of Christian Aid, the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund and Tearfund, who often use this time of year of Lent and Easter and the time that follows it to raise awareness of their campaigns for justice around the world and particularly the impact of climate change.
His Holiness Pope Francis has spoken powerfully about the impact of climate change on some of the poorest and most vulnerable people around the world, and says that a way of putting faith into action is to take action on that point. Another climate zealot, perhaps, is His Majesty King Charles, who said at COP28:
“I pray with all my heart that COP28 will be another critical turning point towards genuine transformational action…unless we rapidly repair and restore nature’s unique economy, based on harmony and balance, which is our ultimate sustainer, our own economy and survivability will be imperilled.”
These are important words. The role of the monarchy and of Christian leadership has been mentioned many times today and we should take those examples of leadership to heart.
I also want to acknowledge the work of our faith schools and their contribution to our communities. In particular, I congratulate the staff and pupils at St Mary’s Primary School in Maryhill, who are celebrating the school’s 50th anniversary this year. Their current building was opened on 26 February 1974. In recent weeks a number of events and activities have marked the occasion, including the pupils coming together to form a giant figure 50 in the school playground, celebratory reunions of former staff, pupils and chaplains, and an anniversary mass celebrated in the nearby Church of the Immaculate Conception by the Archbishop of Glasgow, Archbishop Nolan. I am sure all Members will want to congratulate the school on this very happy milestone and wish them all the best.
Successive Scottish Governments, led by successive First Ministers, have recognised the importance of the Easter celebration to the Christian community in Scotland. Last year, the new First Minister Humza Yousaf sent his first Easter message to those celebrating. He did so as the first Muslim leader of a Government on these islands and while he was himself observing the Ramadan fast. He said:
“For Christians, Easter is an enormously important time of year. It’s a time when family and friends come together to celebrate a story at the very heart of Christianity. A story of sacrifice, of hope, of renewal, that provides inspiration to people all around the world.
We see the results of that inspiration, of course, in the work of our Christian churches throughout the year. In all parts of our country, they play an exceptionally important role, offering spiritual guidance, helping those in need and strengthening our communities.
At the same time, they also continue to provide vital support to communities across the developing world. And that contribution is one which I hugely value and admire.
So I want to thank our Christian communities for the vital role that they play and send my best wishes to Christians everywhere and I want to wish all of those who are celebrating it a very happy and joyous Easter.”
It is also right to acknowledge that the Prime Minister, the first Hindu to lead a Government on these islands, has regularly recognised the contribution of Christianity to our heritage and to modern society, and has also sent messages of goodwill at Easter and Christmas.
That all recognises and demonstrates the importance of strong interfaith relationships and the importance of interreligious dialogue, which is why a number of Members from across the House, myself included, and a number of my constituents are disappointed at the UK Government’s decision to end funding for the Inter Faith Network. At a time when understanding and dialogue between faiths is so important, when in so many parts of the world and even in some parts of our own country people are using religion or belief as grounds for seeking division, it is important that resources and structures are in place to promote tolerance and respect.
As has been noted many times here in Westminster Hall, one thing that all the great religions of the world have in common is the golden rule of reciprocity—the teaching that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves. Very few of us would want to be bombing ourselves, destroying ourselves or causing any kind of trouble and hatred towards ourselves, so we should not be doing that to others. I hope the Government will carefully consider and review their decision.
This time next week, Christians will enter into the three most important days of their liturgical year—the celebration of the Lord’s Supper on Maundy Thursday, the commemoration of the crucifixion on Good Friday and then the joyful celebration of the resurrection at the Easter vigil on Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday itself —such a joyful occasion, in fact, that the celebration continues in the Church’s calendar for 50 full days until the feast of Pentecost. I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Don Valley intends to apply for a debate to mark that date in the Christian calendar. The vice-Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), did say at business questions today that the Committee’s calendar is now pretty crowded. The hon. Member for Don Valley has nevertheless done a service to the House by securing this debate, and I wish him and all those who are celebrating a happy, joyful and blessed Easter when it comes.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. I thank the hon. Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) for securing this debate on Easter, Christian culture and heritage.
I will say a little about the contributions from other Members, which have been very interesting. The hon. Member talked about his faith and about the influence of Christianity on the country. It is good to see him reflecting that view, and that he is proud to speak of his faith. The right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) talked about Christianity being at the heart of our culture and about his own religious background, as well as the strength of the Church of England. The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) talked about the heritage and culture derived from our Christian faith—those other elements of the debate—and told the story of hot cross buns. I am certainly very glad that we are still able to have hot cross buns in this place, and indeed in many other places. He also talked about Westminster Abbey, just across the road from us, and its significance in our history and culture.
This weekend, my constituents will be getting together, attending services and taking part in Easter egg hunts. Easter eggs may be one of the things we have adopted, rather than coming from a Christian background. People will be taking part in hunts like the one in Crawcrook Park in my constituency, which is always a highlight with the children; let us hope that this year we have enough Easter eggs for all the children who come out, because it is very popular. For churchgoers and non-churchgoers alike, such events are a reminder that Christianity has shaped many of our traditions.
I will take this opportunity to pay tribute to one of my local vicars, Father Barry at the church of St Mary the Virgin in Whickham, which was built between the 12th and 14th centuries and has a long tradition and a great history. Father Barry has been a real part of the community, working with different people for many years. I pay tribute to him for all his work, and look forward to celebrating with him his years in Whickham.
I will also talk about some of the other heritage assets in my constituency. The Church of the Holy Cross, on which building started in 1220, is a real asset to our community and very much valued. I should also mention the one of the earliest Catholic churches in my constituency, the Church of St Mary and St Thomas Aquinas, in Stella. I was very proud and pleased to be a governor at the church associated with the parish. I pay particular tribute to Churches Together in Blaydon, which works tirelessly across denominations to serve our local community. With its community larder and the other support that it provides, it has supported many families in desperate need.
As we speak, of course, we remain in Lent, which is marked by various customs, including prayer, fasting, and almsgiving. Each year, pupils at St Thomas More Catholic School in my constituency take part in Lenten alms, with six weeks of fundraising for local charities. Proceeds this year will be going to local charity Daft as a Brush, which provides transport for people being treated for cancer. I thank all the staff and students for their work during this period.
Like many other faiths, Christianity has a proud tradition of charity, which is an important aspect of our Christian heritage. To give a few examples, I think of Joseph Rowntree, the Quaker businessman and social reformer, who sought to tackle the root causes of poverty endemic in early 20th-century Britain. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s social research continues to inform policy work to this day. Meanwhile, organisations such as Christians Against Poverty and Christian Aid are a lifeline for those facing acute hardship, both here in the UK and around the world.
I pay tribute also to the Trussell Trust, which supports more than 1,200 food bank centres across the UK. The food bank model spread rapidly through church networks, and, as the organisation says, they were inspired by Matthew 25:35-36:
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was in prison and you visited me.”
That is a reminder of the obligations we have to the most vulnerable people in our society. The Trussell Trust does great work, but its vision is for a UK without food banks because they are unnecessary. I cannot but agree with it in that mission.
Charities in the UK have carried many families through the cost of living crisis, when this Government have not provided the help they need. Many charities are being hit hard by the increase in demand, with some even having to turn people away. The National Council for Voluntary Organisations has called this a “cost of giving crisis”. This Easter, I hope the Government will take steps to recognise and support charities’ essential contribution.
As a Labour MP, I cannot go without recognising the role of Christianity in the history of our party and our trade union movement. Our founder, Keir Hardie, was a methodist preacher and many other early figures in the movement cited their faith as having inspired their passion for the principles of co-operation and solidarity. Of course, Christianity has inspired many diverse political movements and, in turn, the values of the Labour movement are by no means exclusively Christian. Our movement, and our society, are all the better for the contributions made by countless faiths, cultures and denominations, often working across faith boundaries. The compassion of these communities was vital for getting many of us through the covid-19 pandemic. To this day, as the cost of living crisis continues, many churches, mosques, synagogues, gurdwaras, mandirs and temples have been right at the frontline, opening their doors beyond their own immediate communities to those in desperate need.
As we have seen threats to community cohesion in recent months, it has been inspiring to see faith communities bringing people together. Such inter-faith dialogue is vital, not only for resolving differences, but for building strong and collaborative communities that can support people in times of need. The Government have a role to play in facilitating such co-operation, and I know Members across the House are concerned about the impact of the closure of the Inter Faith Network on that community cohesion work. I hope the Minister is working to ensure that multi-faith dialogue is facilitated through other means too.
We must remember those who will be observing this Easter in the most desperate of circumstances—those facing destitution, fleeing persecution or sheltering from the violence of war. Since the outbreak of the war in Gaza, the Holy Family Catholic church has been a source of refuge for hundreds of displaced Palestinians. In December, an innocent mother and daughter were killed within its grounds and many others continue to suffer without water or food. I hope that this Easter the Minister will join me in recognising our shared humanity and in a call for peace.
As we look toward Holy Week, I pay tribute to people of all faiths and to those of no faith at all who strive daily to serve their communities, both here in the UK and overseas. I celebrate the Christian churches and charities in my own community and the rich contribution that they have made, and continue to make, to our society. The Government should rightly recognise those contributions, but they must also reflect on the hardship that has made some of them necessary. Finally, I hope that Members present today and across the House have a very happy and peaceful Easter.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Felicity Buchan)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq, being a fellow London MP. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher) on securing this important debate. His speech was deeply thoughtful, very eloquent and also humorous, which is quite a difficult combination, and the strength of his faith came across clearly.
I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) for his considered and impassioned speech. I was particularly struck by his remarks on freedom of speech and religion. I know that he is a man of strong faith. We always see each other in the summer at Brompton Oratory during my constituency’s annual summer fête, and I know that he went to a very good faith school in my constituency, St Philip’s. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) for his important contribution. I was struck by his comments on how intrinsic Christianity is to our culture and history, and on the importance of the Church of England.
I thank the Front Benchers for their contributions. I found the contribution of the SNP spokesman, the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), very interesting, particularly his comment about how close Christmas and Easter are to each other. I thank the shadow Opposition spokesperson. There is just one point I would like to take up from your comments—
Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)
Order. The Clerk always gives me a funny look when people say “you”. Other people in the room who have sat in this Chair know exactly what I mean.
Felicity Buchan
My apologies, Dr Huq—my mistake entirely. I meant the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). She said that the Government have not given sufficient support for the cost of living. I want to put it on the record that this Government have given more than £100 billion of cost of living support.
Turning to the subject before us, the importance of Christianity, I share the convictions of my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley about the importance of faith as an essential pillar of our society, and I welcome the opportunity to celebrate the role that Christianity has played in shaping and nurturing the world we live in. I agree that we should be immensely proud of Britain’s history and culture. The Government believe that people need to feel strong in their religious identities, and we are ensuring that the voices of people of faith are being heard.
Our country has been built on Christian values. They permeate every aspect of our lives. Values such as respect for others, public service and the rule of law are supported by the overwhelming majority of people in this country. Those values have evolved over time to become an integral part of Britain today. For that, we all owe a debt of gratitude to the Church of England and the Church of Scotland—the two established churches in the UK.
The Church has, from the first, been the bedrock of our Christian community. It underpins the spiritual wellbeing of individuals. The Church welcomes each of them into a sustaining community of faith, and it builds around them the cultural and institutional framework that promotes and protects their wellbeing. Those values are not unique to churches and their worshippers; they characterise the core beliefs of all our faith communities.
It has been mentioned that at this time of the year, many religions are celebrating important events. We are in the holy month of Ramadan, and I was privileged to attend an iftar at al-Manaar mosque in my constituency last night. Passover is coming in late April, and I will be visiting a synagogue in my constituency at the weekend. Each of our religions, through the commitment they make to serve their worshippers and in their efforts to build our society, helps to deepen and enrich the lives of all of us.
At Easter time, we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The resurrection signifies the promise of redemption and rebirth and the forgiveness of sin. So as Easter approaches, I am grateful for this opportunity to celebrate the role of the Christian Church in our history and culture.
I am proud of the United Kingdom as a place where people are free to practise their religion, faith or belief. We should all celebrate the diversity and richness of a society that has welcomed and supported those of all faiths and backgrounds. The latest census tells that the number of Christians living in this country has decreased, but Christianity remains the most prominent religion.
We may think of ours as an increasingly secular state, but the imprint and influence of Christianity on every aspect of our lives is unmistakeable. It is expressed in the very fabric of our buildings—our great churches and cathedrals, the Hall that we stand in today. It shapes the defining landmarks of our calendar—Easter, Christmas, saints’ days and holy days. It defines our working week, setting aside one day of each week to rest and worship; and it has long inspired our artists, composers, writers and poets, whose work enlightens and sustains our lives.
Christianity has shaped this country’s history and we should take this opportunity to celebrate the impact that those inspired by its teachings have had on the work of our Parliament. It was the Christian faith of the likes of William Wilberforce and John Wesley that led to the abolition of slavery. Elizabeth Fry devoted herself to the cause of prison reform. Lord Shaftesbury promoted care for people with mental illnesses. Charles Dickens, driven by his faith to work for a better, fairer, world, called his Common Lodging Houses Act 1851 “the best piece of legislation” that ever proceeded from this Parliament. Florence Nightingale, Charles Spurgeon, Harold Moody, Octavia Hill—all were committed reformers inspired by their Christian faith to drive reform and improve the lives of all.
Faith and belief continue to motivate people to acts of public service and to serve their local communities. As a nation, we continue to be made stronger by the work of those inspired by their faith. The tireless work goes on every day in our communities up and down the country, often without fanfare or fuss, quietly undertaken by those making an essential contribution to the common good. It is right that we celebrate and show our gratitude for this work and ensure that the perspective and voices of faith and belief are heard by Government.
Churches are often centres of community support, providing a range of services, including after-school care, youth clubs, financial advice, and addiction support to name a few. Many provide a safety net for those in need, running food banks or warm hubs, and the pastoral impact of the Church extends further into our society, with the provision of chaplaincy across the public sector, including Church of England schools, which we have addressed, prisons, hospitals and the armed forces.
Christian faith schools, like all other faith schools, also play an important role in our education system, providing high-quality school places for many children from all backgrounds, and choice for parents. Faith schools are some of our highest performing schools and are often popular with parents, whether they belong to the faith or not.
Sir Edward Leigh
My intervention is on precisely that point. I do not expect the Minister to give an answer now, but I have had various meetings on this subject. We have had meetings with the Secretary of State for Education, and I know the decision is now in Downing Street. There has been a long campaign to abolish the so-called faith cap, which serves no purpose apart from limiting the ability of Catholic schools and academies to attract new pupils. As I said, I do not expect my hon. Friend to answer now, but can she promise to raise this matter with Downing Street and with the Secretary of State for Education, who I know believes the faith cap should be removed?
Felicity Buchan
I will certainly follow up and revert to my right hon. Friend on that. I have many faith schools in my constituency, but I will mention just two: St Mary Abbots Primary School, which has hosted many Afghan and Ukrainian children and made them so much a part of the school community; and Cardinal Vaughan, which is an exceptional Catholic secondary school.
Let me say again that as a Government we recognise the importance of faith and belief across our communities. My colleague in the other place, Baroness Scott, the Minister with responsibility for social housing and faith, continues to champion the brilliant work carried out by our faith and belief communities up and down the country. As hon. Members know, we published Colin Bloom’s independent review of faith engagement in April 2023. In his review, he examines engagement with faith in a broad range of public settings and makes a number of recommendations on how Government can improve engagement with faith groups, both to recognise the contribution of faith communities to our society and to address harmful practices. We are carefully considering the review’s findings and will respond in due course.
I want to pick up on a few points that were mentioned today. Religious tolerance was mentioned, and I want to make it very clear that freedom of speech, freedom of worship, democracy, the rule of law and equal rights are things that we all strive for and value. The rights that we enjoy in the UK extend to everyone. Any individual or group is free to express views and beliefs within the confines of the law, but we must all behave responsibly and respect one another’s fundamental rights. Freedom of religion or belief is a fundamental human right and one that underpins so many other rights.
Regarding funding for places of worship, I want to be very transparent about the fact that such funding is relatively limited. Successive Governments have followed the principle that it is for faith communities themselves to be responsible for the management and upkeep of their places of worship. Nevertheless, there are some instances of Government support: for example, the Heritage Fund run by the national lottery is a scheme to help to restore buildings so that they can be enjoyed by the wider community. If a place of worship is listed, there is a further scheme called the listed places of worship grant scheme, run by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. Under the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023, local authorities can now pay small amounts of money for repair and maintenance of local churches where their buildings are being used to deliver services to the wider community.
I want to talk briefly about the Inter Faith Network. I took an urgent question on that a few weeks ago. I want to make it very clear that we value the contribution made by all organisations that are dedicated to bringing our faith communities together in order to strengthen the ties that bind us, and in my own constituency—[Interruption.]
Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)
Order. We have a three-hour slot, so we will be fine whatever happens.
Felicity Buchan
In my own constituency, I bring together the leaders of many different faith groups. I bring together Holland Park Synagogue with Al-Manaar Mosque, with the gurdwara in my constituency and with many Christian churches. Valuing inter-faith networking is very important.
Andrew Rosindell
I rise to thank the Minister for her welcome when I visited All Saints’ Notting Hill in her constituency, I think three years ago, for the unveiling of the royal coat of arms in that wonderful church. Does she agree that it is magnificent that a church displays the royal coat of arms, and that all churches should be encouraged to do the same?
Furthermore, will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating the Reverend Father David Ackerman of St John the Evangelist, Kensal Green? The church not only displays the royal coat of arms, but it raised £20,000 for windows to celebrate the platinum jubilee —magnificent stained-glass windows that depict flora and fauna from all over the Commonwealth. The windows were a unique tribute to Her late Majesty for the platinum jubilee. Will my hon. Friend visit the church to see how wonderful the windows look? They are a great testimony to our Christian faith and the importance of the monarchy and Commonwealth to our Christian heritage, which we celebrate today.
Felicity Buchan
I certainly agree with everything the you have said about the importance and unity of the Church, the state and the royal family. It was a great delight to see you in my constituency—
Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)
Minister, the Clerk is nudging me. The word “you” means me in this context.
Felicity Buchan
That is right, Dr Huq. It was a great delight to see my hon. Friend in my constituency, and I would love to see him there again.
To return to the subject of the Inter Faith Network, the Department monitors all funded organisations throughout the lifecycle of their projects for the purposes of assessing delivery against workplan targets, compliance and evaluation, in line with best practice for the management of public funding. To ensure suitability, all partners are subject to clearance through our internal finance and due diligence processes. The Secretary of State made the decision to withdraw the offer of funding to the Inter Faith Network in view of a member of the Muslim Council of Britain being appointed to the IFN’s board of trustees. Successive Governments have had a long-standing policy of non-engagement with the MCB. The potential closure of the Inter Faith Network is a matter for the IFN as an independent charity, not the Government.
I would like to express my gratitude to those driven by their faith to strengthen our society and communities. Their selflessness, dedication and commitment to helping others during these challenging times are commendable. Religion plays a significant role in the lives of many people, and the Government are committed to ensuring that it can continue to play a positive role in society. By working together, I know we can achieve even more to help our communities.
Easter is the very foundation of the Christian faith. For Christians worldwide, the importance of Easter is praising and acknowledging Jesus Christ’s resurrection, his triumph over sin and death, and the promise of everlasting life. As we hear in the Gospel of John 3:16, which my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley quoted,
“For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
I remember having to recite that in Sunday school, in Fraserburgh in Aberdeenshire, as a young girl. Easter is a time we can all learn from as Christians coming together, and a time we can all share with loved ones in unison. I wish my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley and everyone who has taken part in this very timely debate a happy Easter.
Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)
I call Nick Fletcher to wind up—but not until 4.30 pm. You have a couple of minutes, Mr Fletcher.
Nick Fletcher
It has been a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Dr Huq. I thank my hon. Friend the Minister. I do not know whether I am allowed to say this, but I think she is a really lovely lady, and I am really pleased that it was her responding to this debate. I know it is a Thursday and people want to get home, so I appreciate it.
I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) and my hon. Friends the Members for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) and for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) for their contributions and interventions. I also thank the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) and the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). It was great to hear what has been going on in the hon. Lady’s constituency. She mentioned several people of faith, and I have a few people to mention myself.
I believe we are all brought to faith by the people around us, and the people who bring us to faith are so important. The person who really brought me to faith is my dad. He is a fantastic fellow; he is 82, but he is still out there spreading the good news. He is a wonderful, wonderful man, so my thanks obviously go to him.
I also thank my pastor, Pastor Grayson Jones. Anyone can become a Christian at any time—they just have to repent their sins and ask Christ to come into their life —but it is nice to do that with somebody. That is what happened between me and my pastor some 15 years ago now. He is a wonderful fellow. We have a fantastic church, and his heart is for the Lord and for young people too. The message is spreading like wildfire across Doncaster, which is wonderful to see.
I also thank the Christians in Parliament all-party parliamentary group, which has helped me so much. There are Bible studies on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and if anyone wants to know more, please get in touch.
I thank Simon Calvert from the Christian Institute, a fantastic organisation. It helps me so much, daily and weekly, and I know it has helped lots of other Members of Parliament. My thoughts go to the institute, whose director, Colin Hart, passed away. He was a wonderful fellow, and my thoughts and prayers go to the Christian Institute and to his family.
As we know, Easter is an extra-special time. I genuinely believe that a life in Christ is the most wonderful thing. Although Christmas and Easter shine a light on the Christian faith, I believe God is with me all the time and that He helps me. I am never alone because of my faith. There are so many lonely people out there, and it is our duty as Christians to go and see them and let them know what faith in Christ can do for them and for society as a whole. Please, if anyone wants to know more about Christ, come and knock on my door. I would love to tell as many people as possible about Him.
Thank you, Dr Huq. I thank the Clerks and everyone who attended on a Thursday afternoon. Thank you very much, and happy Easter.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered Easter, Christian culture and heritage.
Written Statements
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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UK-Switzerland Enhanced Free Trade Agreement Negotiations: Fourth Round
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands)
The fourth round of negotiations on a UK-Switzerland enhanced free trade agreement took place in Bern, Switzerland from 4 to 8 March 2024.
We continue to work together with the Swiss towards an ambitious trade deal. Talks continue to be constructive and positive, with both countries focused on achieving a modern and comprehensive agreement with ambitious outcomes, including in areas such as services and investment, mobility, digital and the environment, which are not covered by our existing FTA. UK-Swiss services trade was worth £27.9 billion in the 12 months to September 2023.
Negotiations are now focused on text-based discussions, and we have seen progress across many areas. This round, we provisionally closed the chapter on small and medium enterprises. This will help UK SMEs expand their operations more easily into the Swiss market.
We look forward to future further discussions between the UK and Switzerland to deliver our desired outcomes for the FTA. It is especially important for the UK that we achieve mobility outcomes, which are a top priority for business stakeholders on both sides and underpin any services and investment market access achieved in the FTA.
The fifth hybrid round of negotiations is expected to take place in the UK in early summer 2024.
The Government remain clear that any deal we sign, including that with Switzerland, will be in the best interests of the British people and the UK economy. We will not compromise on our high environmental and labour protections, public health, animal welfare and food standards, and we will maintain our right to regulate in the public interest.
We are also clear that during these negotiations, the NHS, and the services it provides are not on the table.
His Majesty’s Government will continue to work closely with Switzerland to ensure negotiations proceed at pace and take place on terms that are right for the UK. We will continue to keep Parliament updated as these negotiations progress.
[HCWS359]
European Union Finances: Annual Statement
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Laura Trott)
I am today laying before Parliament “The European Union Finances Statement 2023 on the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement” (CP 1043). This is an annual publication; this year’s edition covers the period from 1 January 2023 to 31 December 2023.
[HCWS370]
Oil and Gas Decommissioning Relief Deeds
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)
At Budget 2013, the Government announced that they would begin signing decommissioning relief deeds.
Since October 2013, the Government have entered into 108 decommissioning relief deeds. Offshore Energies UK estimates that these deeds have so far unlocked approximately £11.8 billion of capital, which can now be invested elsewhere.
The Government committed to reporting to Parliament annually on progress with the decommissioning relief deeds. The report for the financial year 2022-23 is provided below.
Number of decommissioning relief agreements entered into: the Government entered into four decommissioning relief agreements in 2022-23.
Total number of decommissioning relief agreements in force at the end of that year: 105 decommissioning relief agreements were in force at the end of the year.
Number of payments made under any decommissioning relief agreements during that year, and the amount of each payment: three payments were made under a decommissioning relief agreement in 2022-23, for £16.2 million in total. These were made in relation to the provisions recognised by HM Treasury from 2015 onwards as a result of companies defaulting on its decommissioning obligations.
Total number of payments that have been made under any decommissioning relief agreements as at the end of that year, and the total amount of those payments: 16 payments have been made under any decommissioning relief agreement as at the end of the 2022-23 financial year, totalling around £260 million.
Estimate of the maximum amount liable to be paid under any decommissioning relief agreements: the Government have not made any changes to the tax regime that would generate a liability to be paid under any decommissioning relief agreements. HM Treasury’s 2023-24 accounts will recognise a provision currently estimated to be £254 million in respect of decommissioning expenditure incurred as a result of companies defaulting on their decommissioning obligations1. The majority of this is currently expected to be realised over the next several years.
1 This figure, which is an estimate at the last interim reporting period, is unaudited and takes into account payments made subsequent to the financial year covered by this written ministerial statement. The estimate is under review ahead of the year end reporting period and may be updated to reflect newer information.
[HCWS365]
Quinquennial Review of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme 2022-23: Government Response
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Minister for Defence People and Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
Today, I am pleased to announce the publication of the Government’s response to the quinquennial review of the armed forces compensation scheme 2022-23.
The armed forces compensation scheme provides compensation for injury or illness caused or made worse by service; or where death is caused by service in the UK armed forces on or after 6 April 2005. Quinquennial reviews (QQR) ensure that as time passes, the scheme is scrutinised to ensure it remains fit for purpose.
The latest QQR identified a number of recommendations to improve the scheme and the Ministry of Defence has now carefully considered them all. The Government’s response sets out our assessments and reasons are provided for accepting or rejecting recommendations, and where other arrangements exist or are planned which meet the intent of the recommendations.
I am placing a copy of the Government’s response in the Library of the House.
Attachments can be viewed online at: http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2024-03-21/HCWS361/
[HCWS361]
AUKUS: BAE Systems Submarine Contract
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Defence (Grant Shapps)
Just over two years ago, the United Kingdom, the United States and Australia launched the ground-breaking new strategic defence and security partnership, AUKUS. As we have seen through recent events the world has become more dangerous. Against an increasingly contested and volatile landscape, defence partnerships like AUKUS have become critically important in ensuring the UK and our allies maintain a strategic advantage.
For over a century, AUKUS nations have stood shoulder to shoulder, along with other allies and partners, to help sustain peace, stability, and prosperity around the world.
I am delighted to be in Australia with the Australian Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, Richard Marles, and the United States Ambassador to Australia, Caroline Kennedy, to announce that BAE Systems, working with ASC Pty Ltd, formally known as the Australian Submarine Corporation, will build Australia’s conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarine fleet.
This announcement will generate billions of pounds’ worth of potential export opportunities for the UK across the life of the submarine programme. This major collaboration will help secure the future of our British defence nuclear enterprise, adding weight to this Government’s commitment to levelling up by creating thousands of jobs across the UK and establishing export opportunities for UK businesses through the whole of the AUKUS supply chain.
Other parts of the UK’s world-leading submarine industrial base will also contribute to this momentous programme, including Rolls-Royce, which will build all of Australia’s nuclear reactors. To support the planned delivery of SSN-AUKUS, Australia has committed to significant investment in Rolls-Royce and Sheffield Forge- masters, which, alongside an injection of £3 billion into its defence nuclear enterprise by the UK Ministry of Defence, announced by the Prime Minister last year, will see Rolls-Royce Derby double in size, creating 1,170 highly skilled jobs to support the growth of a UK work- force that will help to deliver the SSN-AUKUS programme.
The announcement of BAE Systems and ASC, as Australia’s joint industry partners for building their SSN-AUKUS submarines, demonstrates the high esteem in which UK industry is held worldwide. Over 21,000 people will be working on the SSN-AUKUS programme in the UK at its peak, concentrated in Barrow-in-Furness and Derby, building on the world-class manufacturing and engineering capabilities the UK has developed over the last 60 years. It signals the exceptional level of trust that Australia has in our nuclear enterprise, as we in turn support Australia, through the Australian Submarine Agency, as they build their own fleet of nuclear-powered submarines.
This historic submarine builder deal follows months of negotiations and is a monumental success for British industry. This, along with Rolls-Royce building the nuclear reactors for both the Australian and UK SSN-AUKUS boats, puts UK industry at the heart of this crucial defence partnership. It demonstrates that the UK’s nuclear workforce, who will bring their experience and excellence to deliver this important submarine capability for Australia, is world-leading.
This comes a year after the Prime Minister, along with the President of the United States and Australian Prime Minister met in San Diego to announce that the first generation of AUKUS submarines would be based on the UK’s world-leading design, SSN-AUKUS.
Since then, we have made good progress delivering SSN-AUKUS, including through increased training opportunities for Australian sailors in the UK and US. AUKUS partners are investing significantly to ensure success of the Optimal Pathway and are working at pace to transform and integrate our trilateral industrial bases to support SSN cooperation. Last year, the UK placed £4 billion of contracts with UK industry for the next stage of design and to order long-lead items for SSN-AUKUS. Australia has agreed to a $1.5 billion (AUD) investment for early priority works at HMAS Stirling, to put in place the enablers for the safe and secure rotational presence of United Kingdom and United States SSNs through Submarine Rotational Force-West from 2027. Australia has also commenced enabling works at the future nuclear-powered submarine construction yard at Osborne Naval Shipyard in Adelaide. The United States has likewise announced significant investment in its submarine industrial base to increase the production rate of Virginia class submarines as quickly and effectively as possible, to meet its own fleet requirements and AUKUS commitments.
Taken together, these announcements signal the partnership’s continuing progress to deliver Australia a conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarine capability, which includes an unshakeable commitment to set the highest standards for nuclear non-proliferation. That is why each phase of the AUKUS programme has included extensive engagement with the International Atomic Energy Agency, underscoring our commitment to developing an approach which protects classified information and strengthens the global non-proliferation regime.
The defence of UK values will continue to depend on the strength of our relationships with allies, evident through partnerships like AUKUS. The UK, US and Australia remain fully committed to this shared endeavour, which, through the announcement of this historic submarine deal, secures this ambition for the decades ahead.
[HCWS366]
Mental Health: Government Responses to Reports
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)
Today the Government have laid before Parliament their response to the Joint Committee on the Draft Mental Health Bill.
The Government would like to thank the Joint Committee on the Draft Mental Health Bill, its Chair Baroness Buscombe, its members from both Houses, and staff, for its careful and considered work scrutinising the draft Bill. We are also grateful to all the stakeholders who gave or provided oral or written evidence, and many experts by experience and members of the public who have so generously given their time.
We have carefully considered the Joint Committee’s report and the Government response addresses each of the Committee’s recommendations in turn. We welcome the Committee’s support for the draft Bill and will consider some amendments to the draft Bill, as well as further steps that can be taken without the need for primary legislation, in response to the Committee’s recommendations.
It remains our intention to bring forward a Mental Health Bill when parliamentary time allows, and the Government continue to take forward non-legislative commitments to improve the care and treatment of people detained under the Act.
We are continuing to pilot models of culturally appropriate advocacy, investing up to £1.5 million to provide tailored support to hundreds of people from ethnic minorities to better understand their rights when they are detained under the Mental Health Act.
NHS England has also launched the patient and carer race equality framework, for all NHS mental health trusts to embed across England. This mandatory framework will support trusts and providers to work with their local communities, patients and carers to agree and implement concrete actions to reduce racial inequalities within their services.
Today I am also announcing the publication of our Government response to the rapid review into data on mental health inpatient settings.
On 23 January 2023, the Government launched a “rapid review” into mental health patient safety, chaired by an independent expert, Dr Geraldine Strathdee.
This review was commissioned in response to significant concerns about the treatment and safety of patients at a number of mental health inpatient settings. It considered how data and information can provide early alerts and be improved to identify risks in order to prevent patient safety incidents and support efforts to improve care in mental health inpatient settings. The review’s report and recommendations were published on 28 June 2023. I would like to thank Dr Geraldine Strathdee for her extensive work and valuable contribution in leading the review.
We have carefully considered the recommendations and have today published the Government response to the report, setting out how we are taking forward each recommendation. There has already been good progress towards implementation of a number of the recommendations and I have established a steering group, co-chaired with an external expert Professor Sir Louis Appleby, to work with healthcare system partners to take forward the key deliverables for each recommendation. We intend to provide an update on progress by July 2024.
The Government response to the review has been published on gov.uk.
[HCWS368]
Mental Health: Expected Spend
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Victoria Atkins)
The Health and Care Act 2022 introduced a statutory requirement for the Government to publish an annual statement setting out expectations for NHS mental health services spending. This is to ensure better transparency as part of the Government’s commitment to parity of esteem, ensuring that patients can access services that treat both mental and physical health conditions equally and to the same standard. It also supports the Government’s commitment to uphold the mental health investment standard, which requires that integrated care boards’ spending on mental health grows at least in line with growth in overall recurrent funding allocations. 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 Recurrent NHS baseline (£billion) 142.4 154.7 164.0 Total forecast mental health spend (£billion) 12.6 13.9 14.8 Mental health share of recurrent baseline (%) 8.87 9.00 9.01
In January 2023, my predecessor made the first annual statement. Today I am publishing this second annual statement. It should be noted that, owing to the statutory requirement to make this statement before Parliament ahead of the new financial year, the figures for 2024-25 are the best current estimate based on projections that take account of draft planning guidance allocations, which will be published shortly. Figures for 2023-24 are based on month 11 forecast, as full-year spend is not yet available. There are also revised figures for 2022-23 and 2023-24 compared with the first annual statement made in January 2023.
In financial year 2022-23, mental health spending made up 8.87% of all recurrent NHS spending and 41 of 42 integrated care boards met the mental health investment standard. This is compared with our original forecast of 8.90% in January 2023.
In financial year 2023-24, mental health spending is forecast to make up 9.00% of all recurrent NHS spending, and all integrated care boards are expected to meet the mental health investment standard. This is compared with our original forecast of 8.92% in January 2023.
For 2024-25, mental health spending is forecast to make up 9.01% of all recurrent NHS spending, ensuring spending on mental health continues to grow in line with growth in overall recurrent funding allocations.
These encouraging projections, shown below, demonstrate the Government’s continuing commitment to expanding and transforming mental health services across England and to delivering sustained investment in this area across the country, and our ongoing commitment to parity of esteem for mental health.
This includes the total of all integrated care board baseline spend within scope of the mental health investment standard, which covers all spending on mental health from an integrated care board’s core allocation. It also includes, at NHS England level, service development fund spending and specialised commissioning spending on mental health.
These figures are different to those on the mental health dashboard, which includes learning disabilities and dementia spend in addition to mental health spend. It also compares integrated care board mental health spend to integrated care board allocations.
The autumn statement 2023 funding for NHS talking therapies, which totals to £21 million, is included in the total mental health spend in 2024-25. Additional spring Budget 2023 and autumn Budget 2023 funding for individual placement support, which totals £20 million, is also included.
Although capital spend is not included in the mental health investment standard or in the figures for total mental health spend, the Government are spending over £400 million during a four-year period, which started in 2020-21, to replace 1,370 dormitory beds in the mental health estate across England.
We remain committed to expanding and transforming mental health services across England.
[HCWS367]
Down Syndrome Act 2022: Progress on Implementation
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)
Today, on World Down Syndrome Day, I am pleased to provide an update on the Government progress on implementation of the Down Syndrome Act 2022. The Act seeks to improve life outcomes for people with Down syndrome and imposes a duty on the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to give guidance to relevant authorities about how to meet their needs.
On 18 March 2024, we formally commenced the Down Syndrome Act 2022 by way of regulations, which bring into force all the provisions of the Act and is a necessary step towards the publication of guidance. This progress follows over 1,500 responses to our call for evidence from people with Down syndrome, their families and carers, professionals, and organisations, and we will be publishing our summary of these findings shortly. We have created easy-read and accessible content to ensure everyone can fully engage and be a part of the process to develop the statutory guidance.
This year’s global World Down Syndrome Day theme is to “End the stereotypes”. Working with people with personal experience, voluntary sector organisations and other experts to develop the guidance has brought a wealth of information to better understand the needs of people with Down syndrome and how we can address those needs. By raising awareness and understanding of the needs of people with Down syndrome, we can help to ensure every person with Down syndrome has the opportunity to live full and fulfilling lives.
Engagement with people, professionals and organisations representing different genetic conditions has been an important consideration in developing the guidance, particularly identifying where tailored services and support for people with Down syndrome would benefit those with similar needs. We have also worked closely with the Department of Education on adding a question in relation to Down syndrome to the school census to provide helpful information to support implementation of the Act and facilitate better planning for local authorities.
I would like to thank all those people with personal experience, national and local charities, integrated care board leads for Down syndrome and others that have fed in their views and informed our work to develop the guidance. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for North Somerset (Sir Liam Fox MP) for introducing his private Members’ Bill which is now the Down Syndrome Act, and to hon. Members for their continued support for this work.
We look forward to issuing the draft statutory guidance for public consultation later this year.
[HCWS363]
Police Misconduct and Investigations
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for the Home Department (James Cleverly)
Police forces must command the trust and confidence of the people that they serve. This is vital to the success of our policing by consent model, and why policing in England and Wales is a beacon internationally. A robust police accountability system which ensures officers who fall short of the standards expected of them are held to account appropriately is an integral part of that. It is in the interests of the majority of officers who use their powers to serve the public bravely and well, as well as the wider public. The damage caused to public trust by recent cases of officers not fit to serve brings this into focus.
The accountability system for police use of force must also be fair and proportionate. It is vital that police officers have the confidence to use their powers effectively to keep the public safe. I understand many officers have lost trust in the accountability system and lack confidence to take the actions necessary to protect the public. I am also acutely aware that this is an issue not just for firearms officers, but for many others trained and entrusted to use force or carry out pursuits where necessary to do the difficult job we expect of them.
On 24 September 2023, my predecessor announced a Home Office-led review of investigatory arrangements which follow police use of force and police driving-related incidents. This reflected the need to ensure frameworks for investigating incidents where members of the public are injured or killed, to strike the right balance in holding policing to account fairly without jeopardising public safety and to reflect the context in which the police do their jobs.
On 24 October, the terms of reference for the review were laid in the House and published on gov.uk, and submissions from stakeholders were invited. They were clear that the review will not consider live or ongoing investigations or proceedings. The need to ensure it does not in any way prejudice or interfere with ongoing or concluded investigations or proceedings is paramount. I am pleased now to provide an update.
Progress update / what we have heard
Since the review was announced, officials have engaged with a wide range of stakeholders, receiving written evidence and personal testimony from frontline officers, senior police leaders, the Independent Office for Police Conduct, relevant Government Departments, civil society stakeholders, representatives from the legal sector, and individuals and families directly impacted by police use of force.
Outside the review, and in parallel, we asked the Attorney General, as part of her superintendence role, to look at the Crown Prosecution Service and to make recommendations.
A broad range of participants expressed concern about how the system operates in practice, its complexity, and in particular the timeliness and fairness of investigations. All agreed that investigations take too long; it is unacceptable that it can take years for a verdict to be reached, placing unnecessary stress on all involved. Drawn-out processes have a detrimental effect on public confidence, as well as on the professional and personal lives of all involved. Many identified that processes should be made clearer and more efficient within and between the organisations which deliver police oversight, and that legislative change may be necessary to ensure robust and fair accountability.
I know that police understand the need for accountability. However, many officers do not trust that they will be treated fairly under the current system, and that is having a detrimental impact on morale and the willingness of officers to volunteer to take on the role of firearms officers. This is impacting police capability to do their job and protect the public.
The review team spoke to the families of people who had died or suffered serious injury following police contact, and the lawyers who represent them. Their experiences had often caused them to lose confidence in the system to hold policing to account, particularly in relation to the treatment of people from some minority groups. I am also aware that recent high-profile events have undermined public perceptions of policing. I have listened to all of these concerns and acting on them is a Home Office priority.
What we are doing now
Based on the evidence received, this Government will bring forward a range of legislative and non-legislative changes to address pressing issues. These immediate measures will precede a comprehensive public consultation before the summer on the shape of the accountability system.
Criminal Justice Bill
I plan to bring forward three legislative changes through the Criminal Justice Bill. These changes to schedule 3 to the Police Reform Act 2002 will together aim to improve the timeliness and fairness of investigations and the rights of victims. These changes will:
raise the threshold which is used to determine whether the IOPC refers a case to the CPS, to improve the timeliness of investigations. While the CPS will retain the ultimate decision on whether to prosecute, this change will improve timeliness and confidence in cases where criminality is suggested;
relax the restrictions preventing the CPS from bringing criminal proceedings until the IOPC produces a final report. This will allow the IOPC to submit its investigation report to the CPS earlier, on completion of the investigation, where possible criminal offending has been identified. The CPS can then make charging decisions sooner—reducing the length of time that an investigation takes—which is in the interests of all involved;
solidify victims’ rights by formalising the IOPC’s existing Victims’ Right to Review policy in legislation. The VRR allows complainants and their families to challenge decisions by the IOPC not to refer an investigation report to the CPS for a charging decision. Enshrining this in legislation will provide victims with a legal right to review decisions and supports thorough checks and balances in the police misconduct system. This will also allow Government to hold the IOPC to account for delivery.
White Paper and consultation on wider changes
Further to these amendments, a range of more complex legislative changes are being considered to address broader concerns about the accountability system. Due to the nature of these changes, we must make sure they are thoroughly considered and implemented properly. All who will be affected—whether officers or the public—must be given the opportunity to input and have their voices heard. I will set out this broader package of proposals for public consultation as soon as practicable after the Police and Crime Commissioner elections conclude on 2 May. The consultation will put forward Government findings and proposals, where appropriate, on various issues set out in the review’s terms of reference, including:
the relevant thresholds for launching investigations into police misconduct and criminality—the “case to answer” test in misconduct proceedings;
the relevant legal tests concerning the use of force in self-defence in respect of police misconduct proceedings;
consideration of the standard of proof required for a finding of unlawful killing for inquests and relevant inquiries;
bringing forward options for time limits on investigations, with pilots where necessary;
and making improvements to policies relating to officer and public safeguarding during investigations and proceedings, including officer anonymity.
Non-legislative measures
Aside from legislative proposals, there is more that must be done now to improve confidence in the police accountability system. Further to the amendments in the Criminal Justice Bill, there is a range of non-legislative measures that we are progressing. I intend to work with all relevant stakeholders to address timeliness and complexity of the accountability process, improve post-incident communications, and ensure better support for families, individuals and officers. This includes:
strengthening guidance to ensure that officer training is thoroughly considered during misconduct investigations;
commissioning analysis of post-incident communications, focusing on their accuracy and stakeholder views;
working with relevant organisations to improve the availability of clear guidance on the legal frameworks/processes for complainants and officers;
standing up a cross-Whitehall working group to address inefficiencies across the different organisations that consider these issues;
and launching an independent review of the overall approach to fulfilling Article 2 and 3 obligations following police contact to consider fundamental reform to improve timeliness of outcomes.
Fairfield report publication
The Government will also today publish the report of a recent independent review of the IOPC carried out as part of the Government’s public bodies review programme. The PBR programme is aimed at increasing the effectiveness of public bodies and their delivery for the public. The IOPC’s review was led by Dr Gillian Fairfield, the current chair of the Disclosure and Barring Service, in line with terms of reference published by the Government on 1 March 2023. She reported in December last year.
Key findings in the Fairfield report include:
concern that numbers of referrals to the IOPC have risen more than threefold, while numbers of independent investigations have fallen;
that the IOPC’s governance structure is flawed and should be reformed, with interim improvements to governance, committee structures, assurance and audit functions and closer monitoring by the Home Office;
and further measures required to improve quality and timeliness including cross-Government working to improve times and the way that different parts of police discipline and the criminal justice systems interact.
The Home Office broadly accepts the majority of the Fairfield recommendations for Government and is also publishing its response today. To ensure that issues around assurance and oversight are addressed, the Home Office will make arrangements to introduce a Chair of the IOPC's unitary board.
IOPC DG recruitment
Key to IOPC governance is the Director General role, and today Rachel Watson has been appointed to the position following a robust open competition, conducted in accordance with the Governance Code on Public Appointments. Rachel Watson has been serving as Policing Director in the Home Office since 2019, and will be bringing her years of expertise and experience working with the sector to head up the organisation.
It is critical that we bring forward specific proposals on accountability that both the police and the public can have full confidence in. We ask officers to put themselves in harm’s way when performing their duties and, in some cases, they must take split-second decisions in order to protect life. This is a huge responsibility, and in return, they must feel supported and should not fear that actions taken in line with their training and guidance could damage their careers, wellbeing or family life.
At the same time, the police must maintain the trust the public puts in them to keep them safe, and it is therefore crucial that any use of force is reasonable, proportionate and necessary. When things go wrong, the accountability system must provide the public with reassurance that the police will be held to account for their actions, and that any behaviour falling below the high standards we expect is investigated swiftly and fairly. Those who have been on the receiving end of unlawful use of force, or whose loved ones have been affected by this must feel confident that those responsible will be held to account.
Together, these proposals will bring forward important changes to ensure we maintain this balance. I would like to thank all of those who have contributed to the review so far. I am determined that we continue to work together to ensure a fair, transparent and timely accountability system for all.
[HCWS369]
Judicial Conduct Investigations Office: Annual Report 2022–23
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Alex Chalk)
With the concurrence of the Lady Chief Justice, I will today publish the seventeenth annual report of the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office (JCIO).
The JCIO supports the Lady Chief Justice and the Lord Chancellor in our joint statutory responsibility for judicial discipline.
The judiciary comprises approximately 20,000 individuals serving across a range of jurisdictions. Over the past year, the JCIO received 1,620 complaints against judicial office holders. A total of 36 investigations resulted in disciplinary action.
I have placed copies of the report in the Libraries of both Houses, the Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office. Copies are also available online at: https://www.complaints.judicialconduct.gov.uk/reportsandpublications/
[HCWS360]
Windsor Framework Implementation Regulations
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Steve Baker)
The Government have today laid the Windsor Framework (Implementation) Regulations 2024. The regulations will enable the Government to give direction to Northern Ireland Departments when delivering aspects of the Windsor framework and the commitments made in the “Safeguarding the Union” Command Paper. These include the requirement to eliminate any physical checks when goods move within the UK internal market system, except those conducted by UK authorities and required as part of a risk-based or intelligence-led approach to tackling criminality, abuse of the scheme, smuggling and disease risks. These regulations will come into force on 12 April 2024. The Government will publish guidance and set out initial directions to fulfil its commitments swiftly thereafter.
The Government first briefed the political parties in Northern Ireland on our intention to take forward such legislation last September, building on the powers taken in January 2023 to deliver sanitary and phytosanitary facilities for goods going to the EU through the “red lane”. This approach reflects the fact that these are obligations which arose from an agreement reached by the Government, and which ultimately fall to the Government to uphold. It would not be appropriate to leave them solely to the Northern Ireland Executive to discharge. We have worked closely with the DAERA Minister and his officials to ensure that this is a targeted and specific approach. We are grateful for the close working and can confirm that the guidance that will be published pursuant to the regulations will ensure that only a targeted subset of agri-food matters focused on the movement of goods from GB-NI will be subject to the Secretary of State direction and control powers.
This is the latest step in fulfilling the Government’s commitments made in “Safeguarding the Union”, which led to the subsequent restoration of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland. The Government have taken steps to ensure the swift delivery of commitments made in the command paper, and we remain focused on taking forward the remaining provisions as quickly as possible:
The Windsor Framework (Constitutional Status of Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024 are now in force affirming Northern Ireland’s place in the Union, prohibiting the agreement of any new protocol, and amending section 7A to underline that its operation is properly subject to democratic consent and scrutiny through the mechanisms that the Windsor Framework establishes. They require that a Minister in charge of a Bill must assess whether or not that Bill has an impact on trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland and make provision in law to ensure that an independent review following this year’s democratic consent vote proceeds swiftly and its report is considered fully.
The Windsor Framework (Unfettered Access and Internal Market) Regulations 2024 are also now in force, strengthening and future-proofing unfettered access for Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK’s internal market. The regulations establish the legal basis for robust statutory guidance to public authorities on recognising the importance of Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom and its internal market, and concentrate the benefits of unfettered access on Northern Ireland businesses.
The East-West Council will meet on 26 March to discuss a range of proposals to boost investment and skills.
Working groups on veterinary medicines and horticulture will have met by the end of the month.
We will shortly publish further guidance on medicines to help enable around 9,400 medicines currently on GB licences to be licensed on a UK-wide basis from 1 January 2025.
The Government will shortly be issuing statutory guidance on how public authorities must have regard to the importance of Northern Ireland’s place in the UK’s internal market when implementing the Windsor framework.
The Government will also continue to promote, support and defend the significant benefits that dual market access provides to Northern Ireland. For example, we have made clear that we absolutely reject calls by those who oppose devolved government to ban the movement of live animals from Northern Ireland. That would have ended the movement of an estimated around 3,500 cattle, 17,000 pigs and 337,000 sheep to Ireland in 2022, and would represent a devastating blow to farming communities across Northern Ireland. We have offered to establish a sectoral round table to consider analysis on the impact of the proposed trade ban, consistent with our wider approach on establishing working groups on veterinary medicines and horticulture, but this invitation has not to date been taken up by any of those proposing the ban.
The Government will remain focused in our efforts to fulfil the full range of commitments made, so as to safeguard the Union and build a brighter and even more prosperous future for Northern Ireland as part of it in the time ahead.
[HCWS364]
Disruption of 999 in June 2023: Post-incident Review
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries (Julia Lopez)
I am notifying the House of the publication today of a post-incident review into technical fault BT experienced on 25 June 2023, which affected its ability to transfer 999 calls to the emergency authorities.
Whilst the emergency call service has proven itself to be extremely resilient, and the incident that occurred on 25 June was the first significant disruption to 999 in nearly 90 years of its operation, it is clear that such a disruption gives rise to the risk of serious and widespread harm to the public, and so the incident was exceptionally serious.
I am pleased that emergency authorities have reported that the overall impact on the public was lower than it could have been, and they have not currently identified any confirmed cases of serious harm occurring as a direct result of the incident. However, this will continue to be monitored by the appropriate authorities.
The review establishes the facts of what happened on that day, what the response was, and what lessons may be learnt about the wider resilience of the 999 system. The review does not find fault—its sole aim is to identify lessons to improve the resilience of the 999 system for the future. The review draws on the evidence and expertise provided by all relevant expert stakeholders, including emergency authorities, BT, Ofcom, Government Departments, the devolved Administrations, and local resilience forums.
Ofcom, as the independent regulator for the communications sector, continues its technical investigation of BT’s compliance with their regulatory obligations in connection with the incident.
There are six recommendations. I am pleased to say the two most pressing of these have already been completed and were done as a matter of urgency following the incident. The first of these relates to BT implementing immediate improvements to its systems and procedures to prevent a similar occurrence in the future. That means that the issue that caused the incident on 25 June has been addressed and BT’s systems have full resilience. The second relates to the establishment of a cross-system notification procedure to enable a rapid and co-ordinated response between BT, emergency authorities and central Government in the unlikely event of any future incidents.
Alongside continuing good risk management practice across the system, the remaining recommendations are focused on improving HMG’s oversight, improving public communications for advice on what to do in the event of any such incident, and exercising to test the resilience of the system to a range of different scenarios. Work on each of these is under way and planned for completion by April 2024. His Majesty’s Government will continue to oversee the implementation of this work in recognition of the vital role that 999 plays in the safety, health and security of the country. A copy of the report will be deposited in the Libraries of both Houses.
[HCWS362]
Households Below Average Income: Statistics Release
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mel Stride)
The Department for Work and Pensions has today published its annual statistics on incomes and living standards covering 2022-23. This includes Households Below Average Income, which contains estimates of household incomes and a range of low-income indicators for 2022-23, derived from the family resources survey. Further publications in today’s release are: “Income Dynamics”, “Pensioners’ Income Series”, “Children in Low Income Families”, “Improving Lives Indicators”, “Separated Families Statistics” and the family resources survey. These publications cover the four statutory measures of child poverty required to be published by DWP under the 2010 Child Poverty Act.
In 2022-23 the war in Ukraine and global supply chain challenges led to unexpected and high rates of inflation, which averaged 10% over the year. This outstripped growth in wages and occupational pensions, as well as benefits, which were increased by 3.1% in 2022-23, in line with the rate of consumer price inflation in September 2021, as is standard practice. As a result, there was upward pressure on poverty.
In response to these pressures, the Government provided an unprecedented cost of living support package worth £96 billion over 2022-23 and 2023-24, including £20 billion for two rounds of cost of living payments for over 8 million households on eligible means-tested benefits, over 6 million people on eligible disability benefits and over 8 million pensioner households. This support helped to shield households from the impact of inflation. Analysis today shows that the Government cost of living support prevented 1.3 million people from falling into absolute poverty after housing costs in 2022-23. That includes 300,000 children, 600,000 working-age adults and 400,000 pensioners.
This Government have overseen significant falls in absolute poverty since 2009-10, underpinned by increases in labour market participation, with 4.1 million more people currently in employment, and sustained increases to the national living wage. In 2022-23, there were 1.1 million fewer people in absolute low income after housing costs compared to 2009-10, with the rate falling by 3 percentage points. This includes 100,000 fewer children, 700,000 fewer working age adults and 200,000 fewer pensioners.
In the context of global energy price rises, the war in Ukraine and surge in inflation, between 2021-22 and 2022-23 median incomes fell slightly, and there were increases in the number of children in absolute poverty after housing costs and, to a lesser extent, for working-age adults. Absolute poverty rates for pensioners after housing costs remained stable.
Since the period covered by these statistics, the economy has turned a corner. Inflation has more than halved and is forecast to fall below 2% in 2024-25. Wages are rising in real terms. Together with our cuts in national insurance, this means more money in people’s pockets.
As inflation comes down to target, we are continuing to provide extra support to those who need it most, with the extension of the household support fund in England for a further six months to help vulnerable families with the cost of essentials. Following the Government’s uprating of benefits and pensions by 10.1% in 2023-24, from April benefits will also increase by 6.7%, while the basic and new state pensions and the standard minimum guarantee in pension credit will be uprated by 8.5% in line with average weekly earnings. This delivers on our manifesto commitment to honour the triple lock for state pensions.
To further support those on low incomes, local housing allowance rates will rise to the 30th percentile of local market rents in April 2024. This will benefit 1.6 million low-income households by around £800 a year on average in 2024-25. In addition, from April, we are further supporting the lowest paid with a 9.8% rise in the national living wage, following the largest ever cash increase last year, which means it will increase to £11.44 per hour.
[HCWS371]
Ombudsman's Report on State Pension Age Changes
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mel Stride)
The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has today published his final report on his investigation into state pension age changes communication. The timing and date of publication were entirely of the ombudsman’s choosing, which the Government play no part in. We will consider the ombudsman’s report and respond in due course, having co-operated fully throughout this investigation. Ministers intend to come before the House in due course.
The Government have always been committed to supporting all pensioners in a sustainable way that gives them a dignified retirement whilst also being fair to them and taxpayers. The state pension is the foundation of income in retirement and will remain so as we deliver a further 8.5% rise in April to 12 million pensioners on the basic and new state pensions. This sees the full rate of the new state pension rise by £900 a year.
[HCWS372]
House of Lords
Introduction: Baroness Monckton of Dallington Forest
Introduction: Baroness Smith of Llanfaes
Household Support Fund: Children’s Bed Poverty
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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The Lord Bishop of Manchester
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the Household Support Fund on children’s bed poverty.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Viscount Younger of Leckie) (Con)
My Lords, an evaluation of the current household support fund scheme is under way to better understand the impact of the funding. In the Spring Budget, the Chancellor announced an extension to the household support fund in England for a further six months, meaning that the Government will ensure that targeted support is available for those facing the most challenging financial circumstances as inflation falls. Subject to local decisions, this funding may be used to purchase beds and other household essentials for those in need.
The Lord Bishop of Manchester
I thank the Minister for that Answer, and indeed for the fact that the Government extended the household support fund for another six months. But this morning the Government’s latest statistics on child poverty have been published: 4.3 million children are now growing up in poverty. That is an increase of 100,000 since figures were last published, equivalent to the population of a town the size of Eastbourne. With the household support fund due to end again in September, will the Government use these next six months to carefully consider a longer-term strategy than funding settlements for local crisis support, which is a lifeline for children and their families?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
The Government have kept the household support fund under review, as with all such schemes. Given the changing circumstances, including falling inflation, it was important to consider this in the round as part of the Spring Budget. The right reverend Prelate will know that this is now the fifth household support fund scheme and, following their experience of previous schemes, we know that local authorities and their partners are well placed to deliver support to those in need in particular areas.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
My Lords, the Work and Pensions Select Committee in the other place has just published a report into benefit levels, clearly carried out on the basis of the evidence submitted, which showed that claimants are often not able to afford daily living costs and extra costs associated with having a health condition or disability. In view of those findings, will the Minister talk with his ministerial colleagues in the DWP and ensure a review of benefits and welfare based on the essential principle of need, which includes the operating of benefits commensurate with that level of need in our wider community, including the household support fund?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Of course I will take that point back, but the noble Baroness will be aware that much thought and work is going into this area. In terms of targeted support locally, she will know that the Government have delivered a balanced package of funding through the local government finance settlement for this coming year, 2024-25, which makes available up to £64.7 billion for local authorities in England to target in the right place. I reassure her that this targets the deprived areas of England, particularly the upper decile of the index of multiple deprivation, and they will receive 18% more per dwelling in available resource than the least deprived areas.
Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s decision to extend the household support fund for a further six months, but further to the right reverend Prelate’s supplementary question, I ask: what steps can my noble friend take to ensure a smooth transition, particularly for families with children, when the scheme comes to an end on 30 September—which may be a sensitive time in the political calendar?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am well aware of the sensitivities if decisions are made for that particular time. We will have to wait and see. But as inflation falls, as in the good news yesterday with the fall to 3.4%, and with evidence of some price falls and, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, some evidence of some green shoots, notably with energy prices coming down as well, the Government will want to take careful stock over the next few months. Of course, any decision on the future of the household support fund after 30 September will be a matter for the Chancellor when he deems the timing to be right.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, it is vital that the household support fund continues, but the sad reality of children’s bed poverty is that it stems from systemic problems with our benefit system, which keeps people in deep poverty. Does the Minister agree that the most efficient and effective means of reducing child poverty is to lift the two-child limit? It is not just the right thing to do to end hardship now but the best route in which to end the cycle of poverty for future generations.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
We are very alert to the issue of child poverty. Tackling child poverty is incredibly important, and we have set out a clear and sustainable approach based on evidence of the important role that parental employment plays in reducing the risk of child poverty. But it is more than that. The Question focuses on bed poverty, and it is good to mention that the household support fund can be used to ameliorate bed poverty. There are some examples that the noble Lord may know of, particularly in Bolton and Oldham.
Baroness D'Souza (CB)
Despite the many different kinds of benefits that the Government provide, the evidence suggests that deep poverty remains stubbornly high, at 7% of the population. Does not this suggest that what is needed is a public health approach, whereby there is a co-ordinated strategy by central, national and local government, including business, civic society and communities to develop multi-year schemes to address the damaging social consequences of such poverty?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
The noble Baroness makes a very good point of tackling poverty not over one year but over several years. She will know that we will spend £276 billion through the welfare system in the coming year, 2024-25, including around £125 billion on people of working age and children. This is very much work in progress. Bearing in mind the point behind her question, I can say that my department, the DWP, is working ever more closely with the DHSC and other necessary departments to take a range of initiatives forward.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
I cannot resist making the point that the last Labour Government actually lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. It is welcome that the Government, with less than a month to go, have renewed the household support fund temporarily. The last time that noble Lords discussed this issue at Oral Questions, I asked the Minister how the Government would work on long-term strategies to fight poverty rather than short-term measures renewed only at the last minute. My question remains very much the same: given that two-thirds of children growing up in poverty live in a household where one adult works, are the Government going to work to create long-term stability and security for families, including those experiencing in-work poverty?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
Again, the noble Baroness has made a good point about looking beyond a year and taking a long-term view. More than 26 million awards of support were made between October 2021 and March 2023 across the first of the household support fund schemes. I reassure her that the largest category of spend has been on food support, including support during school holidays, targeted particularly at children who receive free school meals in term time. The focus on children is incredibly important and should be continued.
Baroness Buscombe (Con)
My Lords, I pay tribute to my noble friend and his department for all they are doing in terms of a long-term strategy. Given that we are about to pay out something like £290 billion in that one department this year, which is entirely unsustainable if the Government are to support defence, our health service and everything else as well, surely the best way in which to take people out of poverty is to help them into work. That is something that the department is focused on. The opposite party for years has preferred to keep people trapped in poverty. Am I not right that he is doing the right thing?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
My noble friend is absolutely right. The House will know—and I shall say this again—that this is one of the ways forward. The most important thing is for people to be in work. She will know, for example, that we have brought the figure down for workless households very substantially since 2009-10.
Lord Bird (CB)
With eight different government departments dealing with poverty, is not it time that we actually co-ordinated our dismantling of poverty by bringing in a government department that deals exclusively with poverty prevention?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am very aware of the noble Lord’s interest in this area. I recall the debate that he led on about three weeks ago, which I was involved in. I have very much taken note of his view. We do not agree that there needs to be such a high level of focus on poverty. Having said all that, I think that he is aware of the huge number of initiatives that we are taking, particularly cross-government, in tackling poverty, particularly child poverty.
National Minimum Wage Legislation
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Sahota
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to improve the enforcement of national minimum wage legislation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business and Trade (Lord Offord of Garvel) (Con)
My Lords, the Government take enforcing the minimum wage extremely seriously. We are clear that anyone entitled to be paid the minimum wage should receive it. Robust enforcement action is taken against employers who do not pay their staff correctly. Since the introduction of the national minimum wage in 1999, the Government have overseen the repayment of more than £173 million to 1.4 million workers, issued nearly £86 million in financial penalties and completed more than 87,000 investigations.
Lord Sahota (Lab)
I thank the Minister. The International Labour Organization recommends that there should be one inspector for every 10,000 workers to check that employees are being paid the minimum wage. The UK ratio is 0.4% for every 10,000 workers; that way, UK employers can expect an inspection every 500 years. That is not good enough. You only have to talk to overseas students and workers in minority communities to see how widespread the problem is. In order to stop paying the minimum wage to some employees, employers make them work 20 hours, but on the books they are paying them for only 10 hours—this is one way they get round it. We need stronger and tougher sanctions against rogue employers, so we can get on with it.
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
The Government remain totally committed to the effective enforcement of employment rights and provide a lot of funding, including over £35 million this year to the existing dedicated labour market enforcement bodies. That is a 121% increase in funding since 2010, so a lot of money has gone into this area. On top of that, we provide funding of over £50 million per annum to ACAS, to support employment tribunals. We have had great success in reducing the number of companies not paying the national minimum wage.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, we heard about in-work poverty in the previous Question. One reason there is so much in-work poverty is that too many workers are slipping through the national minimum wage net. One of the key areas in this is food delivery apps. Uber justifies its treatment of its employees as so-called self-employed as balancing flexibility and protection. Does the Minister agree that it is the food delivery apps that get all the flexibility, while the workers get no protection at all?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
In the recent Supreme Court judgment on Uber, it was made clear that those who qualify as workers under existing employment law are entitled to core employment rights and that all gig economy businesses must ensure that they fulfil their legal responsibilities. We now have a situation in which the national minimum wage is two-thirds of hourly median pay, and under OECD rules that means it is no longer classified as low pay. We know that 5% of our workforce is on national minimum wage, which is a great success.
Lord Sikka (Lab)
Currys, EasyJet and Greggs are part of a parade of companies that never forget to pay bosses but somehow forget to pay the minimum wage to workers. Their memory can be improved by effective sanctions requiring that the fine for not paying the minimum wage must equal remuneration of the entire board, of which at least 50% must be paid personally by directors. When will the Minister introduce this sanction?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
One of the sanctions available to the Government is the naming and shaming scheme, which is very successful. We have a large number of companies which have been subject to that, and we have therefore increased greatly the number of companies complying as a result. When HMRC finds employers which breach this, it can impose a penalty of up to 200%; the penalties are severe for companies which do not comply.
Lord Bellingham (Con)
My Lords, the Minister pointed out the work by the HMRC national minimum wage enforcement team, and the general consensus is that it is doing an effective and professional job. Does it concern him that 95% of the 65,000 HMRC staff are working from home at least one day a week? Can he tell the House whether this is hampering effectiveness?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
I thank my noble friend for his question. There are a number of bodies that enforce our employment laws in the UK. Obviously, HMRC is the body that oversees the national minimum wage; my department, DBT, ensures that agency workers are well protected; and within the Home Office, we have the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority. So we have three very effective regulators, which are well funded, and we continue to pursue, name and shame, and impose penalties on companies that do not respect the law.
Lord Leong (Lab)
My Lords, this year we celebrate 25 years of the national minimum wage, which was brought in by the Labour Government. It has played a vital role in protecting the UK’s lowest-paid workers. Some 524 employers were recently named and shamed for underpaying around 172,000 national minimum wage employees by nearly £16 million. Can the Minister confirm that these underpaid employees have now received all the pay that they have earned and how often sanctions beyond the standard fines are applied to repeat offenders?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
Since the introduction of the national minimum wage in 1999, the Government have ordered employers to repay over £173 million to 1.4 million workers. It is far more effective that the employers are made to pay the workers than be dragged through courts, which delays payments to workers and does not provide any respite. I am interested in the fact that this is the 25th anniversary of the national minimum wage. When this Government came to power in 2010, the number of employees on low hourly pay was 21% of the workforce; today, that is 8.9%. I also point out that, when this Government took over from Labour in 2010, benefits were the largest source of income for the poorest working-age households, but under the Conservatives it is now their wages.
Lord Watts (Lab)
Is it not the case that far too many employers still find it to their own advantage to pay below the living wage and below the basic wage? Is it not time that we made this a criminal act, so that we can hold the directors of those companies accountable for their actions?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
As we have said before, our labour market in the UK is one of the most sophisticated and best-working in the world. Out of a population of 66 million people, 33 million are working, and only 5% of that workforce is on the minimum wage. In the meantime, 30% of the population do not pay any tax and the 1% highest earners pay 30% income tax. I think noble Lords would agree that our workforce is in good shape. Instead of criminalising employers, we need to spread the education required to make sure that everyone has higher wages.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, some of the examples that have been given are technically people who are self-employed. Does the Minister not believe that the whole area of self-employment needs to be looked at very carefully in this respect?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
Of the 33 million workers in the country, there are 27 million employees; that means that we have a proportion of the workforce which is self-employed. You might say they are the unsung heroes—the ones who put their laptop on at 8 am and close it down at 10 pm—and they deserve our respect.
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, is it not the case that, two years ago, the Government undertook to close the loophole which enabled P&O Ferries to pay way below the minimum wage? Has the Minister seen the reports in yesterday’s newspapers that many of its employees are currently being paid half the minimum wage? What are the Government doing about this?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
Obviously, that case is well known, and P&O was rightly named and shamed. I saw the article but I am not aware of the details of the case. However, I am very clear that we will check to make sure that P&O continues to act within the law.
Baroness Blower (Lab)
My Lords, in its day, the national minimum wage was indeed an achievement. However, does the Minister agree with me, and with the OECD and the ILO, that the best way to ensure that workers have sustainable good pay and conditions is through sectoral collective bargaining—for example, in the care sector?
Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)
I am sure we all agree on one thing: that we want our workforce in this country to be well paid and to increase their training and skills. Surely the best form of welfare we can give anybody is a good job.
LGBT Veterans: Financial Redress
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Cashman
To ask His Majesty’s Government when they expect to have implemented Lord Etherton’s recommendations on financial redress in the LGBT veterans independent review.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (The Earl of Minto) (Con)
My Lords, defence has accepted the recommendation of a financial award, as proposed by the notable review from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, and is working with experts across government to establish an appropriate scheme, acknowledging that the process is intricate. Defence is committed to maintaining the momentum of the review and honouring all commitments made in the Government’s response, published in December 2023. Work continues to deliver the financial scheme by the end of 2024, and I commit to updating the House on the design of the scheme before the Summer Recess.
Lord Cashman (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. This country’s treatment of LGBT armed services personnel has indeed been shameful, and the longer it takes to implement the financial elements of the report from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, the worse it gets. The Government have had the report for a long time. They accepted it in July, but we still have no financial redress for these veterans, whose careers were ruined, whose employment prospects were damaged and whose service pensions and benefits were denied. Many are now in their senior years and living in hardship. Therefore, I ask the Government at the very least to commit to an operational date for the financial redress scheme and, if they cannot do that, to update the House, as the Minister has said, at least within three months of this Question.
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I certainly commit to updating the House on that latter point. I think all sides are vigorously agreed on this important issue: the treatment of LGBT serving personnel between 1967 and 2000 was wholly, wholly unacceptable. There is just no question about that. But the situation today is very different, and we are trying to address the wrongs of the past as rapidly and practically as we can. We are working across government to deliver all 49 recommendations as effectively, practically and expeditiously as possible.
Lord Lexden (Con)
My Lords, do the Government realise that there is grave anxiety among brave and unjustly treated LGBT veterans, because Ministers do not seem to have accepted in full the central recommendation of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, that claims for financial compensation should be met unless the Government can
“disprove the evidence of the veteran making a claim”?
Since so many of the relevant records have been destroyed by the MoD, would it not be quite wrong to place the burden of proof on veterans? Is it not indefensible that severe financial hardship should be endured by veterans such as Mr Joe Ousalice, now suffering from terminal cancer, who was sacked simply because he was gay after giving nearly 18 years loyal service to the Navy?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, nobody can do anything other than agree with my noble friend. The progress we are making is as we set out after we received the review and considered it in December. Since that time, 26 of the 49 recommendations are now complete, eight remain to be completed by the Ministry of Defence, 12 remain to be completed by the NHS and three remain to be completed by the Office for Veterans’ Affairs, which is all about the very important memorial issue. The door has opened to the extremely important webpage “LGBT veterans: support and next steps” on GOV.UK—I will repeat this as often as I can. We have now had over 2,000 contacts, which have so far resulted in 415 applications to date for restorative measures, including financial measures.
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, there is something of a pattern here. When His Majesty’s Government pledged to make recompense to the war widows, there was an assumption that something would happen, but we heard a few weeks ago that some of the war widows were no longer eligible for the money they thought they were going to receive. We are now hearing that His Majesty’s Government are spending time creating a scheme for LGBT veterans. That is clearly welcome, but, as we have heard from both sides of the Chamber, there is an urgency about this, because some of the veterans have terminal illnesses. They and their families need to know that they are going to be recompensed sooner rather than later. Can His Majesty’s Government make a commitment to come back not just with another Statement but with the scheme that is needed?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I am fully aware of the war widows issue and we are addressing that at the same time. It is very important that all these things get finished off as quickly as we possibly can. As far as the content is concerned, I have given a commitment that I will return before the Summer Recess. That will not be another Statement; it will contain what the process is going to be.
Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)
My Lords, I am happy to pay tribute to the Minister for the commitments he has made openly, both to the Question we are discussing and to the modes by which he will deliver further progress on this issue. He will have noticed, in the way the Question was formed, that my noble friend Lord Cashman has used the future perfect of the verb. In other words, will it be enough to hear an update on what is happening, or do we all long for the day when we know what has happened?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, we come back to grammar. We are all on the same page on this. Everybody is in full agreement, but we have to make certain that it is done fairly, that everybody who has the right opportunity to apply gets that opportunity, and that the compensation and other restorative measures are available to everybody concerned at the appropriate time.
Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)
My Lords, I remind your Lordships’ House of my interest as a serving member of the Armed Forces. It is imperative that our Armed Forces are representative of the society they seek to protect. While there has been significant progress in recent years when it comes to the recruitment of women and ethnic minorities into the Armed Forces, much work still needs to be done. The Royal Air Force has been an exemplar in this area. So can my noble friend simply reassure your Lordships’ House that this remains a priority for His Majesty’s Government?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, I can do no more than assure the House that it is indeed an absolute priority for the Government.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My Lords, I remind your Lordships’ House of my registered interests, specifically my roles with the Royal Navy. I also put on record our thanks to my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, and to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, for everything they have done to keep this issue on our agenda.
Fighting With Pride has done an extraordinary job of raising the horrendous experiences of LGBT+ veterans who served prior to 2000, and I thank the organisation for its service. It is the least that we owe it, and the veterans it serves, to enact every recommendation in the review of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, especially recommendation 28. Can the Minister update us on whether the planned financial redress will be a blanket amount per affected veteran, or whether it will—as requested by Fighting With Pride—be applied on a case-by-case basis?
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, when it comes down to it, it must be on a case-by-case basis, because a lot of the information that we have available to check and re-check exactly who has been so badly dealt with is either missing or not particularly accurate. I say again that anybody who has any interest in this should apply on the “LGBT veterans: support and next steps” page on GOV.UK. So far, we have only had just over 400 applications, which is less than we thought. We really want to make certain that this is absolutely comprehensive and that everybody gets paid—and all the other restorative measures, which are just as important, are taken—as quickly and practically as possible.
Lord Cashman (Lab)
My Lords, it is commendable that 26 recommendations have been adopted, but does the Minister agree that, without the financial element, it could be seen as window dressing? Difficult though it is, the Canadian Government turned around a much larger scheme with a much larger cohort within four months of receiving their report. I am mystified as to why the MoD cannot do the same.
The Earl of Minto (Con)
My Lords, the Canadian example is apposite but very different. The Canadian Government took a very clear administrative approach, which addressed a specific number of people, where they already had the information. We are not in that position, and it is important that we catch everybody who is likely to be affected, to make certain that justice and the right thing are done.
Asylum Seekers: Rwanda
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chakrabarti
To ask His Majesty’s Government what are the reasons for their new policy of paying failed asylum seekers to travel to Rwanda; how this policy will deliver (1) justice, and (2) deterrence; and how they expect it will work alongside their policy of seeking to forcibly transport illegal migrants to that country.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, voluntary relocations to Rwanda support efforts to remove individuals with no right to be here. This will be offered to failed asylum seekers, those without leave to remain and those who have put in a claim to the UK’s asylum system that was unsuccessful. Once the Bill and the treaty are in place, we will look to enforce the removal of individuals entering illegally, so that their asylum claims can be processed in Rwanda.
Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)
As always, I am grateful to the Minister, particularly this morning. Can he help me a little with the following logic? As I understand the Government’s own case, in pursuit of deterrence some genuine refugees who have come by irregular routes will be forcibly transported to Rwanda, while failed asylum seekers, including some who have made fraudulent claims, will be given the £3,000 golden goodbye.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, yes. The fact is that people who have paid £5,000 to £10,000 to a murderous criminal gang to get to the UK—let us not forget that they have been sold a lie and will not be able to stay here—are unlikely to be attracted by an offer of £3,000. I do not believe that it will have any effect on the deterrence principle.
Viscount Hailsham (Con)
Will my noble friend the Minister help the House by telling us whether the numbers of migrants who are paid a fee to go to Rwanda will count towards the numbers that Rwanda has agreed to take as compulsory relocations under the Bill’s provisions?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
As the scheme has only just begun, I do not know what the numbers are likely to look like in the end. However, as this is governed by a separate agreement, I imagine that the answer is no.
Lord German (LD)
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House the size of the cohort that he described and to whom the offer will be made? What will the status be of those people when they arrive in Rwanda, given the present position of the Bill, the treaty and everything else? I draw attention to my interest in the register that I am supported by the RAMP.
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, as I said, this will be offered to individuals with no right to remain. They are visa overstayers and failed asylum seekers, who are offered this option as part of our regular dialogue. It is very hard to say exactly how many people are likely to be offered this, so I cannot answer that question in its entirety. However, this builds on our already widely used voluntary returns scheme, which saw more than 19,000 people accept support to return to their country of origin last year. We have agreed with the Government of Rwanda that individuals who are relocated voluntarily will have the same package of support for up to five years as those who are being discussed under the Bill.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, has my noble friend the Minister seen reports this morning in the Times, the Telegraph and other newspapers suggesting that this House has delayed the passage of the Rwanda Bill unnecessarily, resulting in people being exposed to the dangers of the channel? Will he take this opportunity to point out that this House was well prepared to pass the legislation back to the House of Commons for consideration before Easter, that it is no fault of this House that the legislation has been delayed and that this House has just been doing its job by asking the Commons to think again and is not responsible for delaying the legislation?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I am happy to reassure my noble friend that I have seen those reports and that I passed that very message back before those newspapers published their reports.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, if Rwanda is a safe country, can we have an explanation of why we are taking Rwandan refugees here in Britain?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I have discussed that many times from the Dispatch Box. The fact is that we take refugees from many countries, some of which are safe.
Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)
My Lords, if I understood the Minister earlier, did he mean to tell the House that this arrangement with Rwanda—for people to go there with £3,000—is not covered by the UK-Rwanda asylum partnership agreement, and that there is another agreement of some description with Rwanda, the details of which have not been shared with Parliament? When will Parliament see that agreement?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, as I said earlier, this is separate from the Bill and the treaty. I cannot answer the question, as I do not know when Parliament will see the agreement.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, in the proceedings of the Illegal Migration Bill—now the Act—that was passed last July, the Minister told us that the Act was necessary as a disincentive for people who would cross the channel. The Government have not brought the Act into force yet, eight months after it was passed by Parliament. Can the Minister confirm that those people who have arrived by boat since the passage of the Act until today have been able to claim asylum? How many have been doing so and what are the financial consequences?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have the numbers to hand, because the Question that I am answering is of a very different nature. I will have to come back to the noble Lord.
Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)
My Lords, I am surprised to hear that there is no budget for this policy, but I am sure that the Minister agrees with the two Ministers who answered Questions this morning about the importance of people being in work. Does he agree with me that many people who come to this country would make a valuable contribution if only they were allowed to work?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I agree in certain circumstances, but we are talking about failed asylum seekers. These people will be offered the opportunity to work, but in Rwanda.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, is it the Government’s position that there will be a finite number of places and that some of the people who go there voluntarily will take some of those places but that will not have any effect on the deterrence of the Government’s policy?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, as I have also said many times from the Dispatch Box, this scheme and the Rwanda scheme are uncapped, so there is no finite number of places.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, will the Minister consider his words a little more carefully before he describes people as “failed asylum seekers”, when we have actually refused to consider their asylum requests?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
No, I am afraid that I will not. They are failed asylum seekers, visa overstayers and people who are outside of the current system.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)
My Lords, further to the excellent question from the Minister’s noble friend Lord Forsyth about the attitude of this House towards the Rwanda Bill, will he care to put his ministerial colleague Mr Tomlinson right on remarks that he made on the “Peston” programme last night? He said that the Government lost the seven votes in this House yesterday because of all the votes of the Labour Peers who were whipped into the Lobby by Sir Keir Starmer. Can he point out what the arithmetic is in the relationship between Conservative Peers and Labour Peers?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
The noble Lord makes a good point. I am afraid that I did not see Minister Tomlinson because—noble Lords may be surprised to know—I was in the bar after yesterday’s efforts. However, I have some other statistics: Labour has voted against tougher measures on illegal migration 118 times and voted to block, delay or weaken our plan to stop the boats 105 times.
Israel and Gaza
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister has told the House that the United Kingdom has stressed to the Israeli Government the importance of complying with the ICJ decision on provisional measures, making the point that it is central to the issue of humanitarian aid. Both the Minister and the Foreign Secretary have also stressed the importance of UNRWA in distributing aid, so why have we not accepted the recommendation of the OIOS inquiry’s interim report to recommence payments to ensure that the aid, which is increasing, is properly distributed? What are we doing to speed up the broader review of UNRWA’s activities and neutrality by Catherine Colonna? It would be good to hear that we are actively engaged in that, to ensure that we can get into Gaza the aid that is so desperately needed.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I am sure I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that, following the 7 October attacks, we were all shocked and appalled by the allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in those attacks. Like many other countries—the US, Germany, Italy, Finland, Switzerland and the Netherlands—we suspended funding. However, the noble Lord is right to raise the importance of the reports. We have spoken repeatedly—as has my noble friend—about the important role that UNRWA has played in providing aid and services. We have continued our support through other agencies, and the Foreign Secretary and I have been advocating very strongly for the opening up of new land access points to Gaza, which is showing progress. For example, we saw 185 trucks get through the Kerem Shalom crossing.
On the two reports, I can assure the noble Lord that the UK is fully engaged, primarily through our excellent ambassador at the UN, Dame Barbara Woodward. There is a briefing for UN Security Council Permanent Representatives on the interim findings of Catherine Colonna’s report at 8.30 New York time today. We are following this very closely, but there are important measures and mitigations that need to be put in place. While we recognise the important role of UNRWA, we must ensure that any resumption of new funding to UNRWA from the United Kingdom is based on those mitigations being in place.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, the Minister is aware that I asked the Foreign Secretary last week about concerns over potential breaches of international humanitarian law. The Department for Business and Trade instigated a change of circumstances review for export licences for military equipment in December, and the significance of the concerns has only grown since then. Can the Minister confirm that this is probably the appropriate time for that review to err on the side of caution and for the UK to follow Canada in pausing the export licences for military equipment to the Government of Israel?
Secondly, given the concerns about two of the Ministers within the Netanyahu coalition—Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, against whom these Benches have called for actions to be taken—can the Minister update the House on discussions between the UK Government and the Israeli Government on a free trade agreement? Does he agree that it is probably not appropriate to continue discussions about a free trade agreement with those two Ministers at this time?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord will be fully aware that, as the Minister responsible, I called out the statements made by the two Ministers he named as inflammatory and not reflective of a majority of progressively minded and right-minded people and citizens of Israel across all communities who do not adhere to the statements made by those Ministers; we have rejected those words. The more substantive issue of IHL is important; we regularly review our assessment and we have previously assessed that Israel is complying with IHL. The noble Lord will have heard the words of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary about the importance of this and, while we will not give a running commentary, we have to go through specific processes in this regard, and I assure him that we are seized of this.
Lord Pannick (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the support that he, the Foreign Secretary and the Government have given to the families of the hostages in Gaza. Will he please reconfirm that the Government are doing all they can to release these unfortunate people? Can he also make special efforts to try to secure the release of the remains of those hostages who have died in Gaza so that their families can give them a decent burial?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I can give the noble Lord both those assurances. This week my noble friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken directly to hostage families. I also met, for a second time, one of the mothers of the hostage families; he is not in his place, but I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Levy, for arranging that. It is important, and I assure the noble Lord and your Lordships’ House that this is a key priority. That is why we need the fighting to stop now so that we can get the hostages returned and aid in. To his point on remains, I remember a very poignant meeting, together with my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, at which one of the relatives looked at me quite directly and said that irrespective of our faiths—I speak as a Muslim and she was of the Jewish faith—we all recognise the importance of closure, and we need to bring closure to the families of those tragically killed.
Viscount Hailsham (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend impress on his counterparts in the Israeli Government that, difficult though the two-state, or confederal, solution may be, it is by far the least bad of those that are available—not least because if the political aspirations of the Palestinian people are not met by such an approach, there will be no lasting peace?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
I totally agree with my noble friend, and that is why we have impressed, and my noble friend the Foreign Secretary has made clear, that a key component of the key deliverables for a sustainable peace is a political horizon towards the two-state solution, which includes—as the Saudi Foreign Minister rightly said—irreversible steps to that solution. There is a real willingness and recognition of the need—I know that many in your Lordships’ House who know the Palestinians and Israelis would agree—to ensure security, stability and peace between both peoples, and that can be delivered only through a viable two-state solution.
Baroness Blackstone (Lab)
My Lords, I return to the funding of UNRWA. I found the Minister’s response to my noble friend Lord Collins a little disappointing, given the concern that he and the Foreign Secretary have justifiably expressed about the urgency of getting humanitarian aid into Gaza and distributing it. Is he aware of just how much experience and expertise UNRWA has in this—far greater than any other group he could name? There are UNRWA people on the ground who can do the distribution. Is he also aware that our allies, Canada, Spain and others, who suspended funding to UNRWA have now restored it? What is preventing the UK Government restoring it and consistently pushing policies that will do something about the humanitarian disaster in Gaza?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that we are fully seized of our engagement with UNRWA. I have spoken several times to Philippe Lazzarini, the director of UNRWA, as has the Development Minister, and we will continue to engage directly on the importance of mitigations, as I outlined to the noble Lord, Lord Collins. I fully agree with the noble Baroness—I said it again today—about the important role that UNRWA has played; I have said from the Dispatch Box that it has been the backbone of the humanitarian operation in Gaza and continues to provide important support.
I will make two points, though. We have not suspended humanitarian support in Gaza: additional money, now more than £100 million, continues to flow in. We have delivered over land, and the noble Baroness will know that we have also delivered through air and maritime routes. But we have been pressing the Israeli Government, with a degree of success and through working with the World Food Programme, for example, to ensure that aid is delivered, and we are working with other key partners on that. The important thing, as the UN and the Secretary-General recognise, is that those concerns, raised by the United Kingdom and others, allow UNRWA to move forward in a progressive way, with those important mitigations in place so that this chapter cannot be repeated.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)
My Lords, the Minister helpfully referred to the report being made to the Security Council today by the Secretary-General’s representative, Catherine Colonna. Will he share the report with Members of the House, perhaps in writing, when it becomes available to him? Given the imminence of the Easter Recess, will he tell the House before we go into recess what the Government’s response to that report is?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
As the noble Lord will know from his own time as an ambassador to the UN, the report being shared today is an interim report by the former Foreign Minister of France, Catherine Colonna. It is a UN product. Ultimately, as she has said, it is a report to the Secretary-General, and how its details are shared and briefed will be a matter for the Secretary-General.
Hong Kong Security Legislation
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, Andrew Mitchell said yesterday that the legislation is a breach of the Sino-British joint declaration, adding that the United Kingdom decided in 2021 that China was in ongoing breach of that agreement and declaration. Earlier this week, Volker Türk, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, said that there were serious concerns raised about the incompatibility of many of its provisions with international human rights law. Can the Minister tell us what we are doing at the United Nations to support the high commissioner on these points and to raise these serious breaches of the joint declaration? Can I also ask about the ongoing detention of Jimmy Lai, a British citizen who is a stark symbol of the decline of Hong Kong’s freedoms? What update can the Minister give the House in relation to our efforts to secure Jimmy Lai’s release?
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
I can confirm for the noble Lord that, after a series of breaches by China, including the imposition of the national security law and the changes to Hong Kong’s electoral system, the UK declared China to be in a state of ongoing non-compliance with the declaration in March 2021. This new safeguarding Bill, as the High Commissioner for Human Rights said, may not uphold those obligations, which are bound to it within international human rights laws. It falls short of international standards that Hong Kong itself has promised to uphold. The agreement that we signed with China—the joint declaration—is a legally binding international agreement registered with the UN. So I assure the noble Lord that we will continue, as we have done and as my noble friend the Foreign Secretary did in his announcement, and that the legislation will come into effect this weekend. We will look at this in a focused way. My noble friend has commented quite strongly in this respect.
We continue to raise the case of Jimmy Lai consistently. The Foreign Secretary reiterated the call for his release on 16 February directly with Foreign Minister Wang Yi at the Munich Security Conference. On 23 January, the UK’s Permanent Representative to the UN also called for China to cease his prosecution and repeal the 45th national security law during the universal periodic review. On 28 February, I myself called again for the immediate release of Jimmy Lai, at the UN Human Rights Council.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, in spite of what the Minister says about the UK saying that there is an ongoing breach, the first time a Minister of His Majesty’s Government visited Hong Kong, it was the Investment Minister, Lord Johnson. He did not raise Jimmy Lai with Hong Kong or Chinese officials; he did not raise human rights with officials; he did not raise the sanctioning of democracies; and he did not meet democracy campaigners in Hong Kong. The Minister made only one media comment saying that the British Government were concerned about human rights. In his comments today, the Foreign Secretary said that he was concerned that this would impact on investment. Is the UK so dependent on Chinese imports of goods and Hong Kong investment that we will not act when it comes to enforcement on what we believe should be human rights breaches? Why do Ministers visit Hong Kong but not raise these issues with Chinese officials?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
As the noble Lord mentioned, on the visit of the last Minister, he did, according to our records, raise the issue of human rights. That is a consistent policy; I, as the Minister for human rights, ensure that they are included in briefings, wherever they are and with whatever Minister.
I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis: as I demonstrated in my response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we have consistently raised the issue of Jimmy Lai specifically. On the issue of not acting, we have. When it comes to broader issues around human rights—for example, the noble Lord will be aware of Xinjiang—the United Kingdom has been instrumental and has led action at both the UN Human Rights Council and the UN in New York.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I declare a non-financial interest as a patron of Hong Kong Watch. In addition to the case of Jimmy Lai, at a meeting of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong only yesterday morning, we heard from a young man who had been tortured, had suffered violence and had been brainwashed before he was able to escape. He is now in the United Kingdom with many of the others who have come here under the Government’s commendable BNO scheme.
That young man raised the issue of transnational crimes, as well as the breach of the basic law, and the experience that some are already having in the UK as a result of Chinese operations in Great Britain. What are the Government going to do about this and about raising, along with the case of Jimmy Lai, the cases of the 1,700 political prisoners who are still in jail in Hong Kong? As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, just said, we are more interested in building trade relationships to try to address the £50-billion trade deficit with the People’s Republic of China instead of doing something to make it honour these things.
Secondly, I want to ask the Minister about something that the right honourable Member for Chingford, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, raised only yesterday in the House of Commons on this question. He asked about a document that has been circulating from the Foreign Office saying that sanctions have been suspended indefinitely in the case of Hong Kong and China. Is that true? Will the Government please publish it? After all, not a single person has been sanctioned in Hong Kong by the UK, while the United States has sanctioned 47.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I will answer the second question first because it is very important. I assure noble Lord that that is incorrect. The FCDO has never ruled out sanctions designations on any individual or entity. This is something that I confirmed before coming here. I am aware; I followed the debate in the other place and noted its strength. I commend the noble Lord because he suffers directly as a result of sanctions that have been imposed on him. We recognise this; I hope he recognises the support that the UK Government give. I say again, very clearly, that the FCDO has not done this and continues to review designations on individuals and entities. Of course, I cannot go into what we may do in future, but I want to give the noble Lord that assurance.
On prioritising trade over human rights, I think the noble Lord recognises that, as was said in our integrated review, we recognise that China has an important role when it comes to key partnerships on areas such as our response to Covid, climate change and even areas of AI. We look to see how we can work together constructively but we are clear in our approach, as was demonstrated in my earlier answer. When my noble friend the Foreign Secretary met the Foreign Minister of China, we made it clear that the case of Jimmy Lai and human rights were key areas of discussion between them.
Lord Kamall (Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Alton, mentioned the fact that 47 individuals in Hong Kong have been sanctioned by the US Government. Given that, what co-ordination does my noble friend the Minister’s department and the Government have with other Governments around the world to make sure that they are targeting the same people so that, where they sanctioned by a liberal democracy in another country, we do the same or have very good reasons for why we do not follow suit?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that we co-ordinate on sanctions across the piece with all our key partners, as we have said on a number of occasions, in relation to other countries, regions and situations. We work closely with the United States on China. Of course, its application of sanctions is different to ours. I can go no further than to say that, of course, we have not stopped or paused any of this. Where we see egregious abuses of human rights, and where we see that there is a legitimate reason, those names and entities are tested in a robust way. We will bring forward sanctions at the appropriate time.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, as there is a moment before we leave this Question, I want to go back to something that I asked the Minister about just a week ago: the way in which we go about sanctions. It is an opaque and random process. As the noble Lord just said, we should be doing this in co-ordination with others. A genocide had been declared in Xinjiang. Whom have we brought to justice? What sanctions have we imposed in those circumstances? There are daily threats to Taiwan and we have seen extraordinary cruelty and barbarism in Tibet, along with anybody who is a political or religious dissident being imprisoned —and, yes, seven Members of both Houses of our Parliament have been sanctioned by the PRC. Why do the Government place trade as a higher priority than speaking out in favour of the rule of law, democracy and human rights?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I have already partly answered that question. We regard human rights as a key part of our foreign policy. On Xinjiang, we have taken direct action against the Chinese authorities, which the noble Lord is aware of. We will continue to review the appalling situation in Xinjiang—in particular that of the Uighurs, which I know the noble Lord is very much seized of. We will continue to update the House accordingly.
Local Government Finances
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Shipley
That this House takes note of current local government finances and the impact on local communities.
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, I thank all those who are taking part in this debate, and I remind the House that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association.
We have debated local government funding and the impact of cuts in spending on essential public services on many occasions, but things are getting worse. There is a gap in funding in the face of rising costs and rising demand, and it is widening. In its commentary on the recent Budget, the OBR predicted a four-year squeeze for local government services. It said that local authority funding is due to fall from 7.4% of GDP in 2010 to 4.7% in 2028-29. Indeed, just two years ago, it was only 5.1%. The National Audit Office put it another way: between 2010-11 and 2021-22, the real spending of English councils was reduced by 29%.
Council spending has fallen in all services except social care. At the same time, council tax is having to carry a bigger burden. In 2010, council tax accounted for 40% of councils’ core spending power. It is expected to be 56% in 2024-25. We must conclude from this that the Government have passed on the burden to local council tax payers.
On 26 January, the noble Lord, Lord Markham, wrote to me after a discussion in this Chamber on the proportion of councils’ revenue spending on social care. He said that, in 2022-23, 69% of the discretionary service spending of councils with social care responsibilities was spent on social care of both adults and children. Some have a slightly higher figure than 69%; others, slightly lower. It follows that only 31% is available for everything else. It is simply not enough, and the Government have knowingly let, and are knowingly letting, it get worse. They have been forcing up council tax to meet the rising cost of social care.
Social care has two elements to it—children’s social care and adult’s social care. A few weeks ago, the Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Committee issued a report referring to local authorities’ financial distress and said that one cause was higher spending on children’s social care, with high agency costs, high placement costs and rising demand. I know well that the Government are trying to address that issue, but it needs urgent action and I hope the Government will do that. The number of looked-after children has gone up from 68,000 to 84,000 in the last 10 years. I remind the House that the Children and Families Act 2014 introduced new requirements for additional support, but that has never been properly funded and has not kept up with demand.
The Government’s White Paper on long-term reform of adult social care was published in December 2021. They said that they would set out their plans for adult social care by October 2025—four years’ delay. Meanwhile, the Public Accounts Committee recently said that adult social care demand is not being met. Sir Andrew Dilnot recently said that there has been “no serious addressing” of the problem. Many have concluded that this matter must be decided by all-party agreement, led by the Government. I am clear that that is the right approach. After consultation on an all-party basis, the Government should establish their policy for adult social care and then pay for it, rather than forcing closures of neighbourhood and community facilities and services that are used by everyone.
I was surprised to hear the Secretary of State say, when the final settlement for next year was announced in January, that:
“The Government is committed to continuing to protect local taxpayers from excessive council tax increases”.
I found that a bit rich because, since 2016, the Government have been increasing council tax by 2% a year, compounded, to help pay for rising demand in social care. He went on to say that councils should set out how they will
“improve service performance and reduce wasteful expenditure, for example on consultants or discredited equality, diversity and inclusion programmes”.
The sums involved are very minor compared to the costs of social care. Anyway, in practice, the Government have forced local councils to employ consultants to write all the competitive bids for funding on which Ministers love to adjudicate.
Council tax is regressive and out of date, and there are not enough bands. Some 46% of homes in England—46%—are now charged a higher rate of council tax than Buckingham Palace, which, on band H in the London borough of Westminster, has a comparatively low council tax rate. I was grateful for the reminder about this in the 27 January edition of the Economist. Surely, we need more bands at the top end.
A lot has been said recently about Section 114 notices. We know that several councils face bankruptcy as they try to meet statutory demands and balance the books. One in five says that it is in danger of issuing a Section 114 notice in the next year or two. In the last six years, eight councils have issued Section 114 notices, but it is important not to confuse this issue with the few councils that have not managed their finances well or have made bad investment decisions. They are the exceptions; the real problem is the Government making decisions for local government to fulfil without making the money available to do it—hence all the cuts in a range of discretionary services, of around one-third to 40%, over recent years.
For example, a third of libraries have closed in the last 10 years. Temporary accommodation for people who are homeless now costs £1.74 billion; 104,000 households are in temporary accommodation. We have seen cuts in parks and green spaces, in culture, museums and theatres, in youth services, and in sports, leisure and swimming pools. We have also seen a drop in spending on preventive services that can save money in the medium to long term.
I heard in the news on Monday that half the local road network could fail within the next 15 years. The Local Government Association estimates that there is a £14 billion backlog in local road repairs. To take an example of the Government not funding things, the national living wage will apply in social care and that is excellent to see, but it needs to be fully funded; otherwise, council tax payers will have to make up the difference.
The question for this debate, and for this and all future Governments, is what to do. There is an urgent need for reform of local government funding, and it needs to be done with all-party agreement. We need long-term funding that is not based on competitive bidding. As we have seen, the levelling-up allocations are centrally managed with central deadlines, and only 10% have been spent so far, as the Public Accounts Committee told us last week. Not enough of the projects were “shovel-ready”, and local capacity has not been available because of cuts in funding, so there have not been enough people to do the work to deliver the outcomes. As I say, government deadlines have been far too strict.
What happens now is that we have one-off, sticking-plaster allocations of money. They are not enough, as the recent extra £500 million for adult social care has demonstrated. Local authorities are accused of having reserves that are too big. Let me say clearly that they do not. If I were a chief finance officer of a local council, I would be extremely worried about the projection that the OBR has given of finances for my council over the next four years, and I would want a healthy reserve in place. That is normal—strong reserves are normal for capital investment and for the rainy day that we may well have. Public money requires good stewardship, given the further cuts on the way.
Local authorities need greater freedoms. I have never understood why the Government are so determined not to allow local planning authorities to decide their own fees. Why on earth should they not be able to do that, and recover 100% of the cost of doing it?
We also have to encourage local authorities to invest to save. That requires a national discussion as to how you really can do that—there are things that can be done. If you invest to do something, you will save money in the long term.
We need an acknowledgement that council tax is regressive and needs reform. We need two bands at the top, and quite soon in my view, because otherwise more and more poorer people will pay a higher proportion of their income to support local services.
I have not mentioned business rates. We have had many debates on business rates in this Chamber, and perhaps that is why. It has become a national tax; it is no longer a local tax. I remember when, in my days as a councillor, business rates were managed by local authorities, which decided what the rates were, but that was a long time ago. I repeat what I said during the passing of the Non-Domestic Rating Bill: business rates have simply got too high.
The Government are failing to produce long-term settlements. For the last six years, we have had one-year settlements for local authorities. I do not understand why the Government cannot do better than that. It would really help people to plan.
The Local Government Association has told us that cost and demand pressures have now led to a £4 billion funding gap over the next two years simply to maintain the level of current services, not to increase them. That is a substantial sum of money, and local government finances will be in a precarious state unless action is taken.
I do not want us to end in a permanent state of crisis. With thinking and all-party discussion, that can be avoided, but I wish the Government would do a bit more on audit. The Audit Commission was abolished just over 10 years ago, and I have no doubt that it had suffered mission creep. Equally, I know that having a proper audit system underpinning local government, and feeding information to the Government about how things are going and where extra investment is needed, is really important. In your Lordships’ Chamber, I have previously welcomed the Office for Local Government, Oflog. It should be at the centre of all this but, to be honest, I do not know whether it is. We now have a huge gap in audit, which is starting to cause us some concern.
Finally, we need the fair funding review. We also need to reflect, as we used to, the needs element of local government spending, which has gradually over time been eroded. I hope we will have a helpful debate, and that this Government and any future Government will be able to take action on the things identified by noble Lords. I beg to move.
Baroness Eaton (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, on securing this incredibly important debate today on local government finance.
Local authorities across the nation—small and large, rural and urban—continue to deliver the very best for the communities they serve. We saw this during the coronavirus pandemic, when local authorities rose to the challenge of distributing millions of pounds-worth of grants and loans to keep businesses afloat. Upon the Kremlin’s barbaric and illegal invasion of Ukraine, it was local government that stood up to the test of supporting well over 100,000 people who were settled into this country through the Homes for Ukraine scheme.
Further to this, I hope the House will note that local government has far more trust among the public than government departments in Whitehall. Research from the Association for Public Service Excellence confirms that three times as many people trust their local councils over national government.
It is, of course, Conservative-led councils that continue to deliver more for less across England. A fine example of this is Fenland District Council, in Cambridgeshire, which has yet again cut council tax precepts for the next financial year.
The recent uplift in the local government finance settlement, published earlier this year, was welcomed by councils. In particular, the work of Ministers in DLUHC to secure an additional £500 million towards easing the pressures in adult social care should not go unnoticed. However, if local government is going to be trusted to deliver more and better on behalf of the state, the state in turn needs to award local government with the package of fiscal devolution it deserves and needs to get on with the job for our communities.
Home ownership in our country is becoming an ever-increasing topic of discussion, not just in this place but outside. Local government can turbocharge housing delivery and increase home ownership, but it needs fiscal powers from the Government to support it in doing so.
On fiscal devolution, what quick and easy wins could the Government award to councils? First, the backlog in dealing with planning applications has never really recovered post-Covid. In addition to the pandemic, the retention of staff in local government planning continues to be a challenge, as councils compete with the private sector and major infrastructure projects such as HS2.
To address this capacity gap, the Government should consider devolving the powers of planning fees directly to councils with responsibility for planning, as the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, said. While the recent increase in planning fees from the Government is welcomed, based upon figures from the 2020-21 financial year, 305 out of 343 were operating on deficits which totalled together £245 million. The ability to set planning fees internally by councils, based upon local need and demand, will help speed up the planning applications process and get spades into the ground.
While private home ownership is vital, we should not dismiss the benefits of social housing in supporting our more vulnerable communities in eventually getting on to the housing ladder. Councils have a great track record of building more social housing, yet with more fiscal devolution, local government can do an even better job at increasing social housing supply.
The Government confirmed that, with respect to the retention of right-to-buy receipts, councils would be able to keep 100% of their retentions for the 2022-23 and 2023-24 financial years. As reported in the Financial Times last week, the 100% retention of right-to-buy receipts has delivered an additional £200 million into delivering more social housing. It is therefore disappointing that, in the recent Budget Statement from the Chancellor, there was no indication of whether this initiative would be extended. I would be grateful if my noble friend the Minister could provide some details on this in her contribution to the debate.
Building more social housing is not just a massive win for our local communities, it is a financial win for government. For councils to build the next generation of social housing, they must have the fiscal powers necessary to get spades into the ground. The Government absolutely should commit to the 100% retention of right to buy receipts if they are genuinely serious about increasing housing supply in our nation.
On a completely different subject, I want to now talk about roads and highways. Many local authorities want to get back to basics and ensure that the state of our roads is vastly improved. As many local councillors—and, I am sure, Members in the other place—will testify, potholes continue to be one of the dominant subjects that constituents raise on the doorstep. My view on this is very simple: local government needs to have certainty around its funding, and multiyear financial settlements with respect to highways funding can be the answer to many of the issues we face on our roads today. National Highways is responsible for 4,500 miles of roads in England—just 2% of the road length in England—yet, unlike local government, it receives five-yearly funding allocations from the Department for Transport. Local government should be brought on a par with National Highways and treated as an equal, with multiyear financial funding settlements.
Another issue causing no end of misery, to our rural communities in particular, is fly-tipping. I am pleased that the Government through the National Fly-Tipping Prevention Group have committed £2.2 million in grant funding so that councils can reduce fly-tipping incidents through the installation of CCTV. In addition, local government has been leading the transformation agenda in catching fly-tippers. For example, Buckinghamshire Council has proactively used artificial intelligence to catch fly-tippers in key hotspots and reduce this awful crime. That said, many local councils anecdotally report that the fines they receive from catching fly-tippers simply do not cover the costs they incur in collecting fly-tipped waste. Very simply, I hope the Government will consider giving the powers necessary to local authorities to set their own fine levels, dependent again on local need.
In conclusion, I hope that my noble friend on the Front Bench will consider the four examples of fiscal devolution I have highlighted that could be extended to local government and once again I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, on securing the debate.
Baroness Hamwee (LD)
My Lords, I readily accept that I am past my sell-by date, but there are times when speaking from your own experience just feels right. I was a London borough councillor from 1978 to 1998—a much shorter time than other noble Lords have chalked up. Over 20 years and five elections, the turnout in my ward was never below 60%.
That was then. Not everything was peachy. Householders paid rates; my noble friend mentioned business rates as well. I represented a newly built council estate—those really were the days—on the borough boundary. The rates on the large houses on the other side of the boundary—the other side of the road, indeed —were much lower because of the big differences in government grants to the two authorities. I gather that the reserves which the other authority was able to build up during the many years it was so favoured now have a similar effect on council tax.
The 60% turnout did not seem unusual; if anything, I would have hoped for more, given the effort that went into keeping in touch with local residents. We were able to consult about the level of tax rates—x% more would enable the expansion of such a service, x% less would mean this or that reduction; y% would allow for reduction here and expansion there. Referendums are not the equivalent and there is an understandable reluctance, I think, to spend scarce cash on an expensive exercise.
How different it is now. The whole budget, not just the bottom line, is so divorced from local decisions about tax that taxation and representation are largely detached. This is the particular reason I wanted to speak today. What has been happening and continues to happen regarding finances puts local democracy in jeopardy. There is almost no local discretion and, I suspect, no bandwidth to think strategically. Councillors have ambitions for their local communities; they have them for various different communities, such as users of this park, travellers to that school, supporters of a certain football club and the passengers on the 8.23 to Waterloo.
It has always required agility and resilience, because politics is about balancing priorities and should be about being able to take preventive action. How soul destroying to have to keep saying, “We can’t, there’s no money”; spotting a need but knowing that there is no point in pursuing it, and knowing that local residents have decreasing confidence or trust in their local authority.
An unproductive, unedifying blame game does not foster good relationships. Residents—voters—must feel more detached: abandoned, even. In this situation, can local government attract the best candidates across a range of experiences and representatives of their local communities? There is a lot to be said about staff, too, but I will stick to my main point, save to say that the problems of recruitment and retention affect council services and contribute to the overall worrying picture. In addition, charities—the third sector—to which we have so long looked are not in a position to fill the gaps. I am now told that it is very rare to find people who work in local business among councillors. No doubt there are various reasons for this, but those informal links were so valuable.
As I have said, there is so little local discretion and so much is mandatory, the how as well as the what: how you do it, as well as what you do. Recently there has been an announcement about low-traffic neighbourhoods. Central government has said how local authorities should approach these but not said how they should pay for them or given them any more to pay for them.
My noble friend mentioned planning fees. He probably does not know that I was the chair of my local planning authority when we decided to charge all of £25 to businesses for advice on proposed developments. We were taken to court and we lost.
Local authorities are increasingly dependent on what they can raise locally, but this is increasingly restricted. I travel to Westminster on a road that has a yellow box junction which, because of the sets of traffic lights on either side of it, often traps traffic. It may be an urban myth but it is said to be the most profitable yellow box in London. I understand that the local authority does so well out of infringements in that yellow box that it is one of the very few that still offers free domiciliary care.
I would be frustrated now—to take one example which, judging from the speakers’ list, may get quite an airing today—if I were a member of a local authority which was cutting all spending on arts and culture, which I regard as essential and not an optional add-on. If I were not a councillor, in this context, would I want to stand? In fact, I would feel quite anxious at the prospect, at a time when councils are selling off the family silver—indeed, heading towards fire sales—and spending capital receipts on revenue. Those are receipts from assets paid for by the public and they will be lost from public use.
I am well aware that my references to local government finance are a bit simplistic and, at any rate, broad-brush, but my central point is absolutely serious. Our communities are not short of issues to get involved in, but I would guess that most noble Lords would argue that single-issue politics are rather different from the democracy which comes with responsibility and should come with power.
On these Benches, and around the House, we value local democracy. I came here in 1991, because my then party leader was able to make a single nomination and wanted our single new Peer to have had experience in local government and to make the point about its importance. I stood again in 1994 because the local mandate was the only democratic mandate I was able to seek. I am sure I am not the only speaker to have done that—in fact, I know that. My local community was very important to me. Would I want to do the same in 2024?
Baroness Bull (CB)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for securing this debate. As trailed by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, I will indeed use this opportunity to highlight how the current crisis in local government finances is impacting on arts and cultural services, and the communities that enjoy and benefit from a thriving local cultural ecology.
The positive effects of arts and culture on place-making and local communities are well evidenced. Aside from the intrinsic value, cultural venues and services create jobs, attract visitors and support the wider local economy. Cultural programmes provide skills development for young people, connect with marginalised groups, engage communities in local issues and encourage active citizenship. Culture makes neighbourhoods more desirable places to live, with cultural spaces providing a resource in which people feel pride and a place where different parts of the community can come together. In short, arts and culture make for a better place to live, work and do business—all of which is very much the core business of local authorities. Indeed, much of this cultural activity is enabled by local authorities, which are the main public investor in arts, culture, tourism and heritage, allocating £650 million each year to libraries and £430 million to museums, heritage and the arts.
However, this long history of investment is under increasing threat. We have already heard about the pressures facing local government today: inflation, wage increases, pensions, the cost of living and energy, homelessness, the rising cost of adult social care, and increased numbers of children with special educational needs and disabilities. Analysis from the Local Government Association in October last year showed that English councils face, as we have heard, a £4 billion funding gap across the year—and that is just to keep services standing still. The extra funding announced for 2024-25 will help, but it will not bridge this gap.
The now too-familiar reports of, at worst, bankruptcies and, at best, dramatic cuts, can no longer be seen as isolated incidents, but have to be acknowledged as systemic failure. Currently, some 19 councils across England are receiving exceptional financial support, which is more than double the more typical number—between five and nine—in this category since the onset of the pandemic. Local councils’ core spending power has seen a 24% real-terms reduction between 2010 and 2025. While much of this has been absorbed in new ways of working, efficiencies and staff reductions, it is inevitable that non-statutory services, such as arts and culture, will take a hit. According to a recent LGA survey, 55% of responding councils
“reported that cost savings would be needed in their sport and leisure service provision”,
with 48% reporting
“that cost savings would be needed within their library services”,
and over a third, 34%, reporting
“the need for cost savings in their provision of museums, galleries, and theatres”.
For cultural organisations, this crisis in local government funding sits alongside changes to the Arts Council portfolio and the ongoing impact of Covid, from which the sector has yet fully to recover. It also has to be set against a backdrop of the 10 years of austerity policy, which saw average local authority investment in culture reduced by nearly 37%. As a result, directly or indirectly, theatres, venues and arts organisations in local communities are facing existential crises—from Windsor and Maidenhead to Woking, Ipswich, Nottingham, Birmingham and beyond. Some have already closed; others are struggling to pull off a five loaves and two fishes-type of miracle to get them through the coming year. While London venues and organisations are certainly not immune, withdrawal of local authority support has a disproportionate effect outside London and other major conurbations, where there are far fewer alternative sources to fill the gap through, for example, corporate sponsorship.
The allocation of levelling-up funds to cultural projects has been welcome, although it is concerning to read in the recent report from the Public Accounts Committee in the other place that as at September last year, local authorities had been able to spend only 10% of the Government’s three levelling-up funds. Likewise, the announcement in the Spring Budget that theatre, orchestra and exhibitions tax relief will be made permanent was warmly welcomed, but it might be hard for some local communities to feel the benefits of theatre tax relief when their local theatre is boarded up.
What is needed is not one-off funding but long-term, sustainable and multi-year settlements that will enable councils to invest in the local cultural infrastructure and services that create thriving, dynamic environments for local communities. Without guaranteed funding, cultural activities suffer from an on-again, off-again effect which leads to community disengagement and uncertainty for organisations and the people they employ. In the end, it is local communities that suffer. Will the Government heed the call from the Local Government Association for multi-year settlements that allow councils to plan ahead and provide communities with the services they deserve?
Pitting arts and culture head-to-head against other local priorities and needs is never a good idea, particularly so at the moment, when the here and now pressures are so loud. Arguments about their longer-term impact on the economy, growth and jobs are understandably hard to hear.
Nevertheless, arts and culture play a major role in delivering for communities, and successful local cultural strategies—that is, strategies that are specific to the area and that work in partnership across different sectors—can deliver to multiple local priorities: skills, regeneration, education, employment or health. As Liz Green, the chair of the LGA’s Culture, Tourism and Sport Board, has written, local councils need the creativity of cultural organisations and their perspective on how things might be done differently, not just in cultural services but across the board. There are many good examples of this collaborative approach in practice, with a recent example being Culture Start in Sunderland —a city-based partnership spanning social housing, schools, the voluntary and youth sectors, and higher and further education, as well as culture—which aims to mitigate the impacts of growing up in poverty by enabling more children and young people to access the multiple benefits of cultural participation.
Strengthening and enhancing the local cultural offer strengthens and enhances local places and improves the lives of people who grow up, live and work there. It makes them more attractive to visitors and business, and more likely to attract funding from grant-makers and investors, all of which further enhances the local environment. There are many stakeholders who contribute to the positive benefits that this kind of local cultural ecology can deliver, but the underpinning certainty of local government funding has always been the catalyst that enables the change.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for securing today’s debate, and for the characteristically incisive way he introduced it. My noble friend Lady Hamwee need not be diffident about painting with a broad brush, because her broad brush, in the hands of someone with many years of experience, painted a picture of the threat to local democracy that our current system is posing. In many ways, that is probably the most important point that can come out of today’s debate.
I share my noble friend’s commitment to local communities. That is why, when the National Association of Local Councils asked if I would become its president, I was very happy to take on that role, because that town and parish council sector, which covers 91% of the country, is the first layer of local government and the one that faces these challenges on a very personal and day-to-day basis.
I want to make sure that that sector is not lost in today’s debate. It is interesting that, in the otherwise excellent House of Lords Library briefing, this sector does not get a mention. There are around 100,000 councillors who are volunteering their time in this sector, putting in, we estimate, 14.5 million hours a year—I sometimes felt that I worked that myself. They are working so hard to change and improve their local area. Unlike other tiers of local government, they do not have many statutory duties but they do have an array of discretionary powers, which they are using to deliver services in their area. Sometimes it is interesting to see these quite archaic powers, designed in a different age, being used to address very modern problems, such as loneliness, the climate emergency and the cost of living crisis. They are doing that on top of the more conventional activities, such as dealing with allotments, bus shelters, Christmas lights, open spaces and public toilets.
In that sector, the parish precept is usually the main and only dedicated source of income. In 2023, the total parish precept came to £708 million, which is 1.8 % of the total council tax requirement for England, with an average band D rate of £78. Unlike principal councils, local councils do not receive revenue support grant or a share of business rates, and they do not generally have access to central government funding. It remains a very strong feeling in the sector that parish and town councils should be able to apply for central government funding schemes on the same basis as principal authorities.
During the passage of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, I put forward an amendment to address the situation where government said it did not have the powers, but disappointingly the Government did not agree. On a positive note, and I thank the Minister for this, the Government have extended the community ownership fund to allow applications from parish councils. In the short period of time since then, around £4.5 million has been allocated for community assets, such as a market, community centres, a library, parks, a skate park and a nature reserve.
I move on to trends in spending power and the impact of reductions. It is striking how investment by town and parish councils in their local area has changed over the past few years. In 2010-11, the total precept was 1.4% of the total council tax requirement for England, and, as I have said, this year it is 1.8%. In some cases, that is because the sector is doing more, getting involved in more things and being more active, and that should be welcomed and applauded. However, it is also because many parish and town councils have stepped up to take over services from principal councils, particularly those discretionary areas where principal councils feel they have no choice but to withdraw. It is alarming to hear warnings from bodies such as the LGA that government funding will lead to a £4 billion gap over the next two years. When coupled with the number of principal authorities issuing Section 114 notices, this will place even more pressure on parish and town councils, especially town councils, because otherwise they will completely lose those important discretionary services such as libraries and leisure centres, and support for community organisations, culture and the arts.
You can argue that it does not matter which bit of local government is paying for something. I would argue that it does matter, because facilities such as libraries, for example, are often used by a significant rural hinterland, and there is a danger that the local town council will end up footing most of the bill, whereas, at the moment, it is spread more widely, right across the local authority precept. It is simply not going to be sustainable for parish and town councils to keep on increasing their precept to provide much-needed investment in their area just to stand still and take up the slack that has been left by principal tiers of local government which have no choice. I think the sector would argue that we should have access to dedicated funding for some of those services, such as improving high streets, parks and leisure centres—the quality-of-life services that matter so much.
Despite increasing pressures on their budgets, town and parish councils have taken all available steps to demonstrate financial prudence when setting the precept. I think that has been recognised by the Government, who continue to defer setting referendum principles for that tier, which is welcome. However, I argue that no local authorities should be forced to hold referenda. We should not be having levels of intervention by the Government at this point. I very much agree with the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, that finance settlements should cover multiple years. Local government has always been told that it should behave more like business; no business would operate on a one-year basis.
I conclude with two specific asks for the Government. The first is technical but important, and is for one specific reform to the audit regime. The limited assurance regime for smaller councils works very well, but there is a £25,000 threshold at which they enter the rather more costly and onerous category 1, and there is currently a backlog for that. If the Government would consider raising that level and introducing a matching transparency regime, it would relieve some councils of a huge burden. The second is more fundamental: that parish and town council should have the diverse range of funding opportunities they need to fund growing services, take local action on national priorities and help pick up where principal authorities are having to leave. This includes direct access to government funding, multiyear freedom to set their precept, no referenda, a share of business rates and the exemption of cultural assets.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, and to agree with her about the importance of parish and town councils. In travelling around the country, as I often do, I see so many of them stepping up to the plate where the larger-scale authorities—the principal authorities—are simply not able to continue as they do not have the funds. That is crucial. Keeping public toilets open, managing areas of grassland, and even keeping tourist centres open are the kinds of things I have seen.
Like other noble Lords, I begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for securing this crucial debate. There is hardly anything more central to the declining quality of life in the UK—the broken Britain that we talked about when we were debating the Budget—than how much local government is struggling. I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association and of the National Association of Local Councils.
In April, we are coming up to about 75% of councils making the maximum increase that the Government allow, according to the County Councils Network. That means a £99 increase for a band D average property, with bills going to more than £2,000 a year. At the extreme, things are absolutely desperate. The obvious example is Birmingham City Council, which is looking at a council tax hike of 21% over two years as it struggles to find savings of £300 million. This is in a context where councils and councillors are acutely aware of how the cost of living crisis is affecting so many of their residents, but we are in TINA land: there is no alternative. For councils to keep meeting even their statutory requirements—requirements that are put on them by Westminster, about which they have no choice—they have to put those increases in.
I suspect that, if one were to search this debate, “one in five” would be the phrase that comes up most often. I make no apologies for repeating the phrase, because one in five councils is at risk of going broke. That is 20% of councils in the country. This is an absolute crisis, yet our media is so focused on what happens here in Westminster, particularly in the other place. A media that focuses on London will fail to grasp the scale of the crisis around the country, and I am afraid I do not think the Government have truly grasped the scale of the crisis either.
I referred to the rise in council tax, but the proportion of money that councils get from council tax has risen from 40% in 2009-10 to 60 % now. Where else do councils get money from? Often, they can charge for certain services, such as leisure centres and parking, and they can generate income from the sales of property and from certain types of waste removal. But think about those services, and put them at the intersection of the cost of living crisis: yes, they can increase the cost of the local swimming pool or the gym, but that means that more and more people will not be able to access them.
We can think about the issue of sales of property. We have seen, since the election of Margaret Thatcher, the sale of 50% of what was publicly owned land—a large amount of that being council land. Once it is sold, it is not coming back. You close the library; you sell the building and the land. When times get better, you cannot bring them back—it is gone. That library is so much a part of central meeting places. Even as technology changes and IT comes in, it is a public space that could have been dedicated to public purposes in the future, but we have simply lost those spaces. Communities do not have places to gather any more.
It is also worth highlighting—I do not think anyone has picked this up yet—that we have seen austerity right across central government, cuts to Civil Service workers’ pay, and to the real level of benefits. That increases poverty and ill health, which puts more pressure on councils to provide services such as social care. This is literally a downward spiral in which we are trapped.
The list in the Library briefing is worth looking at; this picks up points from the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and others. We have seen the following spending cuts from 2010-11 to 2019-20: cultural and related services cut by 37%; planning and development services by 37%; non-school education—we keep talking about the need for skills—down by 32%; housing services by 25%; highways and transport services by 24%, which picks up the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, about potholes and the general state of the roads; and environmental and regulatory services down 10%, just at the point where we are starting to realise what an incredibly parlous state our natural world is in and that it desperately needs to be boosted, in its own right but also to improve public health.
Many noble Lords will have received the briefing by the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, which raises the important point that we think about the cuts to council services and how much is lost—the libraries, the theatres, et cetera—but funding that local councils have given to charities and community groups has also been slashed, and that again is cutting away at the basic standard of quality of life in our communities. Almost three-quarters of organisations are not receiving enough funding to meet the demand for the services they offer. Nearly two out of five organisations have reduced the number of people whom they support. When you think about the Covid pandemic—several noble Lords have referred to the loneliness pandemic—and an ageing population, we are reducing the number of people being supported when it is clear that the need is increasing.
I come, briefly, to two final points—first, that council tax and business rates is a broken, wildly out-of-date system. The Green Party has long held, and continues to call strongly, for a land value tax, which would be levied on the annual value of land itself, excluding any structures or improvement. It follows good taxation practice, it would be cheap to collect and difficult to evade, and it would discourage the use of land for speculation. At the moment, land is an ideal speculative investment, and we can, I am sure, all point to examples where land is not used well, because someone is just sitting on it and waiting for its value to rise.
The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, talked about elections. Of course it would be lovely to have democratic elections with a single transferable vote system or similar, as there is in Scotland for local councils. It would be great to have local communities fully represented in the House of Commons. But what is interesting and worth noting is that there is a big shake-up happening in local councils: we increasingly see groups of different parties coming together to run councils, which is an exciting development.
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD)
My Lords, in my noble friend Lord Shipley’s excellent opening speech, he mentioned many of the public amenities that are now under immense threat due to this Conservative Government’s starvation of local government. These public assets—community assets—have been built, bought and improved over centuries and decades. I appreciate how lucky I was in my 15 years in local government in Somerset that we were able to plan and construct local amenities. Now, under this Government, starved of resources, local authorities will have little choice but to sacrifice these common assets, be they libraries, green spaces, public toilets or cultural centres.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, just said, once amenities are gone, they are gone. She is right, and it puts me in mind of a well-known poem, written at the time of the Inclosure Acts, and just as relevant today:
“The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose”.
That is just what this Government are doing—they are stealing the common.
These common assets are irreplaceable, and the ones I want to highlight today are libraries. This possibly stems from my time at school and the only post I had—head librarian—led to a career in books. More importantly, libraries are a crucial element for everybody in intellectual levelling up. Nobody has put this better than Bobby Seagull, who many remember as the “University Challenge” champion who went on to become a City whizz-kid and then a maths teacher. He is, especially, a great advocate of libraries, as he explained when he came here to Parliament a while ago:
“Growing up in financially challenging conditions in an east London council estate, our library was a paradise”.
More affluent areas are more likely to still have quality libraries that remain open and well stocked, but deprived areas will suffer multiple deprivations, and libraries will be one of the first of these. The Government are consigning a generation to poorer literacy and lower academic attainment.
Libraries are popular—they have 40 million visits a year, which is more than cinema and football combined. They are one of the most popular services that councils provide. In addition to their central focus on reading and literacy, libraries support a wide range of activities, which was particularly seen during the pandemic, including digital skills, warm hubs, job clubs, and access to financial advice and support. They are the ultimate community resource, yet public library funding in the UK has fallen by more than 30% in total since 2009-10, and 800 libraries have closed. At least 32 councils are exploring very significant cuts or closures—in some cases proposing to close over 65% of their branches. I hope the Minister will not dare to suggest that such cuts are a local government choice. She knows perfectly well that local authorities now have no choice, given that central government has subjected them, year after year, to real-terms cuts.
What answer are the Government giving to the worst-affected local authorities, struggling in the face of ever-diminishing central government funding? They are saying, “Sell off your assets”. The exceptional financial support framework will allow councils involved—I use the word “allow” in inverted commas—to use capital receipts from the sale of assets or borrowing to cover their day-to-day costs of this amount. Traditionally, libraries occupy buildings at the heart of their communities, where land values are higher—making them an obvious option to cash in on short-term capital at the expense of long-term value.
The Financial Times highlighted this recently when it said:
“The UK government is now considering loosening the rules for allowing councils to sell off assets. This is bad news for everything from libraries to swimming pools, town halls to toilets”.
We really are in a disgraceful state of affairs. A later verse of the poem I quoted is just as apposite as the first:
“The poor and wretched don’t escape
If they conspire the law to break;
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law”.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for the opportunity to speak in this debate. Like my noble friend Lady Bull, I will talk about the arts and cultural services.
A good place to start is by quoting the briefing that the Local Government Association provided for the debate in this House on the arts in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bragg, on 1 February:
“Councils have a key role to play—they are the biggest public funders of culture, spending over £lbn a year and running a wide range of other services. They are also place shapers and have a convening and supporting role in setting the context in which the arts can flourish. The arts are discretionary, but councils invest because they see the value to local people”.
One could of course add, “when they have the funding to do so”. The quote is valuable because it describes the intricacy of the relationship between the arts and the local community. On the one hand, the arts are a good in themselves in many different ways—they are something that local people can take pride in, and they may have a national or international reputation—but, on the other, the arts are also inextricably bound up in the identity of a local area. They are or can be a part of the character of that community.
How should all these varied arts be funded? I believe they should continue to be funded primarily through local government funding. That is still the most efficient and comprehensive means by which we can fund the day-to-day activities of the arts and other cultural services: efficient because local governments are the experts in their areas, and comprehensive because every area of the country is covered by local government and therefore much better at levelling up than the patchiness of the levelling up fund, whose purpose in any case ought to be properly understood as additional to the core funding of local government.
The great tragedy of the last 14 years is that, not only for the arts, we have seen at least a partial dismantling of this inherently efficient and comprehensive system. The specific point about the arts in relation to the funding cuts, as the noble Lord, Lord Hall of Birkenhead, pointed out recently when interviewed by the Observer on these cuts, is that they have been a “canary in the mine”. The noble Lord said:
“What we learn in Birmingham will soon matter across the country”,
and we are seeing that in Hampshire, Nottinghamshire and many other councils. It is the arts and other cultural services such as libraries, community and leisure activities that have been the first to feel the effect of long-term cuts. Indeed, around seven years ago Nicholas Serota made the point that the biggest crisis in the arts was in local government funding. It was seven years ago too that we had a debate in this House on local government funding and the arts—for which the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, did the summing up for the Liberal Democrats—which was in effect a warning sign to the Government that, bleak as the picture was then, it was going to get bleaker unless the matter was addressed. As we know, it has not been addressed, with a cliff edge having been reached in some cases.
The Government have had all the warning signs, but the Secretary of State for DCMS, Lucy Frazer, recently gave an interview for the Stage in which she said:
“It’s disappointing when local authorities make decisions to cut the arts”.
What is of course far more disappointing is the refusal by this Government to take responsibility for a situation for which they are ultimately responsible. The evidence is in front of them: it is not about well-managed authorities or otherwise. It is always possible to pick out councils that can be understood as examples of good practice—or in some cases good fortune, as recipients of the levelling up fund—but that does not describe the overarching narrative across the country of decreasing funds and the cutting of services, and of the irreparable loss of infrastructure, including buildings, as others have referred to. It is this that Lucy Frazer and the rest of her Government refuse to acknowledge.
I applaud the Government for giving the arts and the creative industries such a prominent position in the Budget, and one hopes that prominence will continue. However, theatres, museums and orchestras will have a sense of relief, more than anything, that tax relief, which was originally increased to counter the effect of Covid on the arts, has been set permanently at a higher rate. That shows perhaps more than anything how much some organisations that have normally depended on local government funding have come to depend on what was originally a temporary measure.
Staying with the Budget, capital projects are welcomed and will not be turned down, but what the arts really need is that basic help with day-to-day funding for which local government has been key. As a colleague pointed out to me earlier in the week, the Budget is not a spending review.
I will touch on one other area, the nature of the arts themselves. It is impossible in this discussion not to bring in funding streams other than local government, such as the Arts Council, which has started to fund through the Let’s Create strategy much that would once have been funded by local government, such as community arts projects, side by side with professional arts and arts facilities. For a long time my worry has been where this leaves professional artists and performers. Both community arts and professional arts are important, but there is an increasing danger that the professional arts are being shut out. That needs to be addressed because it is happening due to local government cuts.
It has become clear that we do not have a strategy for the arts that includes local government funding. We need more joined-up thinking, including between DCMS and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. On funding of the arts overall, we are still moving in the wrong direction. I understand that the Arts Council has been asked how it can now make further savings of 5%. This makes no sense. As the LGA says:
“Public funding is an essential part of the ecology of the arts and culture in the UK”.
The Arts Council found that in 2020, for every £1 generated in the arts and culture, an additional £1.23 gross value was generated in the wider economy. Our arts and creative industries are the growth area in this country. They stimulate growth, as my noble friend Lady Bull pointed out. It is high time we reinvested in them, not least at the hugely significant local government level.
Lord Hussain (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Shipley for securing this debate. I am one of those Peers who had the opportunity of being a member of my local borough council—in my case, Luton Borough Council—for many years before coming to this House. Serving on the local council gave me a sense of pride and satisfaction. The council’s remit stretched from social services to education, housing, environmental improvement, libraries, parks, leisure services, community development, street services and much more.
On top of the usual meetings of the council and other outside bodies, I remember that the ward councillors periodically used to have surgeries and tour every street of their wards, along with field officers from relevant departments, taking note of any potholes, graffiti, fly-tipping, fly-posting, flooding, broken pavements, abandoned vehicles and anything else that was reported to them, and took prompt action as required. All this was made possible with sufficient central government funding and local taxation, but over the years our local authority, along with other authorities, has met with drastic cuts in central government funding. That has resulted in significant reductions to the library service, the youth service, community centres, daycare services, road repairs, refuge collection, street cleaning and many other areas of service, while the council tax has risen four times over the years.
The local government finances granted to councils such as Luton are only about 10% of what they used to get 10 or 12 years ago in their annual settlement from central government. Not only has this had a major impact on the level and quality of services that the general public used to get but it has put huge financial pressure on the residents, particularly low-income families, the elderly and single parents. To be honest, I am not sure I would really want to be a councillor any more.
Luton, in the east of England, is generally known to be an affluent town and has been well known for manufacturing for a very long time, but it has what are considered to be some of the most deprived areas in the country, with old housing and poor housing conditions, overcrowding, high unemployment, health inequalities, outdated school buildings, low educational attainment, a high crime rate and antisocial behaviour. The longer these areas are ignored, the bigger the problems will become. Urgent action is needed; these areas need huge investment to bring them in line with the rest of the town. What plan do the Government have to deal with the most deprived areas in the country, such as these?
The issue today is not about Luton alone. Many local authorities are struggling with their finances and some, including Birmingham, Nottingham, Woking and others, have actually gone bankrupt, while many more are on the brink of bankruptcy. According to an LGA survey carried out in December 2023, before extra money was announced—and I am glad that it was—one in five council leaders and chief executives in England thought it very or fairly likely that their chief finance officers would need to issue a Section 114 notice this year or next. Half are not confident that they will have enough funding to fulfil their legal duties next year, 2024-25. This includes the delivery of statutory services. Can the Minister say what plans the Government have to deal with this unprecedented situation and avoid more local authorities being bankrupted?
The Lord Bishop of Manchester
My Lords, I too am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for securing this important debate, but I am doubly grateful for its full title. This is not simply a debate about local government finances; it is a debate about the impact on local communities, and that is a vital distinction. Money is only ever a means to an end. It is an input—a crucial one—but what really matters are the outcomes and, in terms of local government, what really matters is how well local communities are served.
I still recall that back in the 1990s, when I started attending and speaking at national housing conferences, there were some where every positive mention of housing associations brought an audible hiss from some local authority members who were present. They saw us as rivals, and in some cases even the enemy, as we were taking money that had formerly gone to them to provide services that they had previously enjoyed delivering. I guess their attitude could be summed up as: if a job is worth doing, it is for the public sector to do it. I hope that we have long moved on from those attitudes. Local authorities have a vital and leading part to play in the service of their communities, but they are not the sole provider. Other agencies are not competitors; they are partners in the common task of supporting the local community.
Much of my diocese, as noble Lords will know, falls within the Greater Manchester area. Our mayor, Andy Burnham, understands well that it needs more than just local authorities—indeed, more than just the wider public sector—to pull together if we are to maximise the positive impact we can have for our local communities. So, the Greater Manchester Combined Authority works closely with voluntary, community, faith and social enterprises, and our faith communities work hard to be both visible and distinct. The authority acknowledges that faith-motivated work makes a significant contribution to the well-being of the whole of our communities, regardless of the service users’ faith.
Only last year, the GMCA’s faith and belief advisory panel drafted a statement which drew attention to the variety, visibility and delivery of faith community support in a whole range of areas of social need—things such as homelessness and food security. That initial statement is part of working towards a faith covenant. We are currently drafting one which we hope will be signed by each of the 10 local authorities, along with faith community reps. Faith covenants actually emerged from the APPG on Faith and Society, and I know that they are already operating in areas such as the West Midlands and in Leeds.
Our combined authority has a number of action networks, including the homelessness action network. A youth homelessness report from 2023 showed that at least two community partner agencies are working to resolve individual youth homelessness cases through the pathfinder programmes that have grown out of faith communities. Faith involvement is woven into the whole of the provision of tackling homelessness, including the “A bed every night” scheme, whose target remains to ensure that nobody need sleep rough on our streets. The Greater Manchester Food Security Action Network is a similar story, with 134 food banks and 68 pantries or clubs across Greater Manchester, many of them run by faith communities, including my own local Broughton food pantry run by St James Higher Broughton, which I think has been well-reported here before.
As well as responding to immediate needs, partners recognise that the long-term future prosperity of Greater Manchester depends on our being able to achieve our shared commitment to be carbon net zero by 2038. To that end, our faith leaders—Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and Jain—invited our mayor and other civic leaders to accompany us in a delegation to meet and discuss these matters with Pope Francis and leaders of the international Roman Catholic organisations in Rome last year. That really inspired us to think about how we could better work together as faith and political leaders to achieve our goal.
I have drawn my examples predominantly from the combined authority level, but I could equally mention more local cases, such as the Manchester homelessness partnership board, which I chaired from its inception until recently. That body brings together businesses, charities, and faith and public sector partners to maximise impact on ending homelessness in the city. I could speak of how the housing association that I chaired, Wythenshawe Community Housing Group, provides much of the services for young people in its area, using properties owned by the city council but where that council is no longer able to be the provider. Our emphasis is on synergies and partnerships—on recognising that faith communities deserve a seat at the table for what they already do, and what more they can do.
This debate must be as much about recognition and partnership as it is about sources of funding, but I guess that is where the levels of local authority funding kick in. Noble Lords have spoken, and will no doubt in the rest of this debate speak, of the severe limitations that many are operating under and the rapid rise in Section 114 notices that we have heard about. The danger is that when they are faced with major deficits, councils become tempted to cut back on the vital support they provide to those partner bodies, simply to maintain as much as they can of their own directly provided services. I understand why they want to limit the damaging impact of redundancies among their own staff. The trouble is that those understandable responses tend to maximise rather than minimise the harm being done to local communities.
Noble Lords will also note the negative impact of very short-term funding. Earlier on, I asked a Question about the household support fund and its extension for a mere six months. We debated that this morning, but local authorities and their partner agencies need longer-term certainty so that they can plan and provide. They are not helped by constant fears that funding may end in the very near future. So yes, my speech is a cry for a more generous settlement for local authorities; not so that they can plot a return to the municipalism of former decades, but to allow them to plan and deliver services along with their partner agencies.
The principle that we should come together across all sectors to support and strengthen community life is important at all times, not only when the money is short. Because it is through that partnership working, as I have seen over and over again throughout my adult life, that we begin to see, in big ways and small, not only our communities served better but the revitalisation of our common shared life together.
Lord Foster of Bath (LD)
My Lords, I too begin by congratulating my noble friend Lord Shipley on securing this debate and on his excellent introduction to it. I want to concentrate on just two issues: arts and culture cuts, and the unfairness in the allocation of funds between rural and urban areas.
In 2016, the chief executive of Arts Council England, Darren Henley, published a book, The Arts Dividend; Why Investment in Culture Pays. He argues in it that the dividends from investment in the arts and culture include encouraging creativity, helping educational attainment, improving health and well-being, supporting the creative industries, providing defining characteristics to villages, towns and cities, contributing to economic prosperity and enhancing our global reputation.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, made similar points, and I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, may well say something about this, too. Indeed, the noble Earl referred to a debate that he secured back in 2017 on local arts and cultural services, during which reference was made to a speech given earlier that year by the then new chairman of the Arts Council, Sir Nicholas Serota, who said:
“I need to voice long-term concerns around public investment, and especially the loss of local authority funding—which is now the most pressing issue, day to day, for many cultural organisations across the country”.
Seven years on, with further losses to local authority funding, the situation is dire. The extra £600 million this year does not begin to address the acute funding and service demand pressures on councils, which are now merely managing decline.
Our councils are the biggest funders of culture, spending around £1 billion in England on services such as libraries, museums, heritage and the arts. Most are discretionary, not statutory, but many councils are trying hard to protect them as they see the benefits to residents. However, with continued funding cuts, it is ever harder. Spending reductions in cultural and related services are now higher than for any other service area, and councils are warning that further cuts can be expected. As others have said, to avoid still deeper cuts, councils are selling off their assets at a rate of knots. One survey suggests that an average of 6,000 assets, from swimming pools to libraries, are being sold every year, which certainly does not bode well for the future.
A possible lifeline—the levelling-up funds for local councils—is simply not getting through. As the PAC announced last week, only 10% of levelling-up funds have been spent, due to delays in funds being received by councils. Can the Minister explain what is being done to speed up those payments? More importantly, does she accept that councils’ arts and cultural services are not a luxury but are integral to supporting communities, contributing to the economy and helping individuals live more fulfilling and healthy lives? If she does, can she tell us what plans the Government have to reduce their decline?
Some councils are better placed than others to sustain such services, so I turn to the issues impacting rural communities. In 2015, the then Defra Secretary, Liz Truss, claimed:
“This Government … is committed … to ensuring the interests of rural communities and businesses are accounted for within our policies and programmes”.
Four years after that claim, I chaired your Lordships’ special committee on the rural economy, which concluded that her commitment had not been met and rural areas were losing out. We demonstrated that, for many rural services—health, dentistry, public transport and policing, among others—government funding per head was lower for rural areas than for urban ones despite higher delivery costs. For policing, for example, the current funding formula means that, in Suffolk, where I live, we get a Home Office grant of £114 per resident, whereas Merseyside gets £217.
The committee also demonstrated that rural house prices and rents were higher despite lower wages’ that broadband and mobile connectivity were worse; and that government funding to rural local councils was lower, meaning higher council taxes for rural dwellers. The evidence was clear that rural areas were being unfairly treated, not least in the local government funding settlement.
Five years on, little has changed: all of these disparities remain. Of course, there have been some welcome initiatives—Delivering Rural Opportunity, published only on Monday, lists some of the Government’s favourites —but, despite such welcome initiatives, huge disparities remain between rural and urban areas. In times of reducing public expenditure, it is ever more important to distribute available resources fairly.
Michael Gove, in the final local government finance settlement update, appeared to suggest that he had cracked it. He said that,
“in response to the consultation feedback and in recognition of the specific challenges and difficulties local councils can face serving rural, sparse populations, we are increasing the Rural Services Delivery Grant by £15 million in 2024-25”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/2/24; col. 6WS.]
Of course, any increase is welcome, but, as the Rural Services Network has pointed out, the extra money will go to only a limited number of rural councils—only the top quartile—based on a “super sparsity” measure. Very many will get no extra funding.
Even with this small amount of extra cash for a few councils, huge rural/urban disparities will remain. The RSN analysis for 2024-25 shows just how stark it will be. Urban local authorities will receive some 36%—£141—more in government-funded spending power per head compared to rural authorities. Rural residents will pay, on average, 20%—£112—more per head in council tax than their urban counterparts because rural councils are still getting less government grant. This simply is not fair. Rural communities continue to be disadvantaged and their residents left behind at a time when the aim is supposed to be levelling up across the country.
Ten years ago, the Government seemed to acknowledge the need to do something about this and changed the funding formula to make it fairer. But, in effect, they then did not use it. They added and froze in place a “damping process”. As a result, there are councils in London receiving millions of pounds more than the Government’s own formula says they should and rural councils getting far less than they should. Of course, I want to see the size of the pot increased, but, whatever its size, it should be allocated fairly. Does the Minister accept that it is not being, that rural communities are losing out and that the damping process should be phased out? All councils are getting a poor deal from this Government, and rural councils are getting the worst deal of all.
Lord Freyberg (CB)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for initiating this important and timely debate. As the final speaker before the Front-Bench speakers, I would like to add my voice to others’ on how the arts and cultural services are an essential component within our local communities. As stewards of our communities’ well-being, it is incumbent on us to confront the challenges facing local government and to recognise the indispensable role that the arts play in enriching our lives and fostering vibrant and inclusive communities.
The fiscal health of local government is a barometer of our collective prosperity and resilience. However, over the past decade or so, most local authorities have grappled with budgetary constraints exacerbated by economic downturns, rising costs and competing priorities. The ramifications of these financial challenges extend far beyond the balance sheets of government offices; they reverberate through the very fabric of our communities, affecting the services and amenities that define the quality of our lives.
Amid these fiscal pressures, one area that often bears the brunt of budget cuts is the arts. Programmes and initiatives that support cultural enrichment, confidence-building, skills development, creative expression and artistic endeavours are often deemed non-essential or expendable in the face of tightening budgets. Yet such a narrow perspective fails to recognise the intrinsic value of the arts and their profound impact on our communities’ social, economic and cultural vitality.
The arts are not merely a luxury or an indulgence; they are a fundamental component of what makes a place thrive. From public art institutions that beautify our streetscapes to local theatre productions that ignite our imaginations, the arts enrich our lives in myriad ways. They foster a sense of identity and belonging, cultivate empathy and understanding and serve as a catalyst for social cohesion and community engagement.
Moreover, the arts are not just cultural assets; they are economic engines that drive local prosperity and growth. As the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, mentioned, studies have consistently shown that investment in the arts yields significant returns, generating jobs, stimulating tourism and fuelling economic development. Whether it be through the revitalisation of disinvested neighbourhoods that need to reinvent themselves through leisure and tourism, or the creation of creative industry clusters, the arts have the power to catalyse positive change and drive sustainable economic growth at a local level.
However, despite their undeniable contributions, the arts and cultural provisions remain vulnerable to the vagaries of budgetary constraints and fiscal austerity. When local governments face tough choices about where to allocate scarce resources, the arts are often relegated to the sidelines, resulting in reduced funding for arts organisations, cultural institutions and community arts programmes. This not only undermines the viability of these vital institutions but deprives our communities of the myriad benefits that the arts afford.
The impact of these funding cuts is felt most acutely by the marginalised and underserved communities, which often have limited access to arts and cultural opportunities. For many individuals, particularly young people, the arts serve as a lifeline—a source of inspiration, empowerment and hope in the face of adversity. When funding for arts education programmes is slashed or arts venues are forced to shut their doors, it is these communities that suffer the greatest loss. Here, I completely agree with others that, once these buildings are sold, they rarely, if ever, return to community use.
Moreover, the erosion of support for the arts exacerbates existing inequalities and perpetuates systemic injustices. As we are the world’s sixth richest nation, it is a sad state of affairs that even essential services such as libraries and museums are under threat owing to a lack of funding. Without adequate funding and resources, artists from underrepresented backgrounds face barriers to entry and struggle to make their voices heard. This not only stifles artistic innovation and creativity but perpetuates a homogenous cultural landscape that fails to reflect the diversity of our communities.
In confronting the challenges facing our local government finances, we must reaffirm our commitment to the arts and cultural provision as essential pillars of community well-being and resilience. This requires a paradigm shift in how we conceptualise the role of the arts within our communities—not as expendable luxuries but as indispensable assets that demand our unwavering support and investment.
To ensure the continued vitality of the arts, we must rethink the allocation of resources to support arts organisations, cultural institutions and community-based arts programmes. This includes sustained funding for grants, subsidies and public/private partnerships to empower artists and cultural organisations to thrive. It also entails integrating arts and culture into broader community development strategies, recognising their integral role in fostering social cohesion, mental health and well-being, economic prosperity and inclusive growth.
Furthermore, we must adopt a more equitable approach to arts funding, ensuring that resources are distributed fairly and that all communities have access to arts and cultural opportunities. This requires actively engaging with marginalised and underrepresented communities, amplifying their voices and centring their experiences in our cultural narratives.
The County Councils Network, in its briefing for today’s debate, calls for the next Government to have
“an honest discussion … as to what councils can be expected to deliver”
I believe that we should begin that process right now, because councils cannot afford to wait.
In conclusion, the state of current local government finances presents a formidable challenge, but it also presents an opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to arts and culture provision as essential components of vibrant, resilient communities. As we navigate the complexities of budgetary constraints and competing priorities, let us not lose sight of the transformative power of the arts to unite, inspire and uplift us.
Baroness Pinnock (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Shipley for securing this debate, and for his excellent and analytical introduction, and all noble Lords for the many local examples that they have shared and for their eloquent contributions. I have relevant interests as a councillor for nearly 40 years and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association.
The words “local government” were once synonymous with pride of place and pride of people. Councils were duly elected and took action to improve that place, be it through housing improvements, creating parks or ensuring public health reforms. It is a sentiment that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester also expressed. The demise of the once great vision of what elected bodies could achieve for their place has been gradual. The question is whether we are reaching an endgame in that vision. My noble friends Lady Scott of Needham Market and Lady Hamwee have exposed and expressed that as a real threat.
Local government is shorthand for the provision and delivery of services that make a tangible difference to the lives of individuals, families and communities, be they in villages, towns or cities. That is why this debate is so important. Cutting funds to councils means real reductions in services that provide basic support to people in need, blocking opportunities for young people and leaving the place that people call home in a state of decline.
The challenge for the Minister is to demonstrate that the Government understand that local government is not about the delivery of disparate services defined only by central government. Local government, at its best, is far greater than the sum of its parts. It is local government that is the key to preventing difficulties becoming crises. For example, closing swimming pools and leisure centres as well as reducing youth provision will mean that young people have fewer places to go and fewer interests to enjoy, and the consequence can be a rise in anti-social behaviour.
My noble friend Lord Shipley has rightly focused on sources of income for local government. That is something that we really need to think about in this debate. A SIGOMA briefing stated—and I thought that this was really telling—that there has been a move away from providing local government funding based on need to one based on local tax-raising ability, so that councils in more affluent areas are able to raise far more through council tax than councils in more deprived areas. Can the Minister confirm that that is the case and that government claims of increasing core spending power include a requirement for councils to raise council tax by the limit set by the Government?
All that adds up to not very much in the sense of levelling up, which sounds ever more a hollow promise, as many noble Lords have said. Does the Minister agree that the social care precept is a new tax, introduced by the Government to help fund social care? That tax adds a further 2% on council tax bills in the higher-tier authorities and unitary councils and 2% more on the bills of hard-pressed council tax payers. In my own council, that means, for the average council tax payer, an additional £200-plus per year. As we all know, council tax is regressive, so is that a fair way of raising more funding for social care services?
As my noble friend Lord Shipley has rightly pointed out, 69% of local councils’ total spend is on adult and children’s social care, leaving 31% for everything else: highways, leisure, parks, libraries, culture, the arts—we could go on. I remind the Minister that my noble friend also said that the Government seem to be knowingly letting things get worse, in terms of the consequences of cuts to all the other services. We are still waiting for the fair funding review.
Of course, there are other forms of income for local government. The Government have been pushing for councils to use their reserves, but this is such a short-term and short-sighted approach to local government funding. As reserves can be used only once, this props up a budget for one year only and leaves an even bigger gap the following year. It is not sustainable for the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to push councils to use their reserves, especially because, as we have been reminded, the OBR has assessed that local government is facing further significant cuts to its funding as the proportion of GDP will fall by 3% over the next few years.
My noble friend Lady Hamwee contrasted being a local councillor 30 years ago with how local government is now—so constrained by government that it is in straitjacket. There is, as she says, little local discretion now available to local councils. That means, of course, that local councils are not able to respond effectively to real local need, because if there is no discretion, there can be no response.
Quite rightly, we have a real focus on arts, culture and libraries. The noble Baroness, Lady Bull, the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, the noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, and my noble friends Lord Foster and Lady Miller all raised the vital role that culture, the arts and libraries play in the life of a place, and their economic importance in attracting business and investment. There are also the life chances they open up and the opportunities they provide for enhancing life and well-being. The tragedy is that these are the areas of local government funding that have had huge cuts, and there is no sense of the Government recognising the impact of the cuts, and no sense that the cuts will be replaced, except by these odd little pots of money that can be applied for and go somewhere—but, in the scheme of things, go nowhere. My noble friend Lady Miller had the telling statistic that more people go to libraries every year than watch football—I am up for that, as a statistic.
My noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market pointed to the value of parish and town councils, and the enormous work they are doing. I know that my colleagues in Somerset Council, which is struggling with huge cuts to services, has sought a bigger and better partnership with its local parish councils to make up the difference.
To conclude, there is a crisis in local government. As we have heard, one in five councils are anticipating effective bankruptcy. Selling off council assets permanently reduces councils’ ability to serve local residents. Local councils matter. As we have heard, people are passionate about what local councils at their best can do. That is why the gradual decline of local government matters. We on these Benches value what councils can do; we will support and enhance them. The question to the Government is, will they?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
My Lords, I draw attention to my interests in the register. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for securing this vital debate and for his excellent and thorough introduction. I thank all noble Lords who have spoken so powerfully. It clearly demonstrates the very rich nature of our sector.
Your Lordships will know that I was a local government leader for nearly 17 years. Distressingly, because of local government funding cuts, I had to cut the council’s budget every single year of those 17. In the first years, this was a very specific technical adjustment which only affected a small number of councils—unfortunately, mine was one of them. After that came a torrent of funding cuts which saw millions of pounds taken from our budget in cash terms—and that is before unfunded inflation is taken into account.
Councils across the country have had the same experience. In spite of the constant refrain from Ministers on the Government Benches that more funding is going in, the fact is that it is not meeting either the rising demand for services, the increasing demand due to failures in other public services, inflationary costs, or the costs of dealing with multiple government initiatives.
I am afraid it is just not good enough to say that this is just a few councils which have been badly managed, or to say that, if councils cut back their budgets for consultants and equalities programmes, as the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to, the problem would go away. In fact, the Hunger Games approach to funding taken by DLUHC, which sets councils and their communities against one another in competitive bidding rounds, has driven much of this expenditure. It would be interesting to know—across all government departments, but DLUHC would do—what departments have spent on consultants and equalities training in the last three years.
LGA analysis shows that, by 2024-25, cost and demand pressures will have added £15 billion to the cost of delivering council services since 2021-22. Despite increased funding in both of the last two years, mostly from council tax, there is—as the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Eaton, Lady Scott, and Lady Bull, have all said—an ongoing gap of £4 billion. There is a dreadful built-in impact here, too, that sees the poorest areas the worst affected. Many noble Lords have referred to that, as did the right reverend Prelate. The broken local government finance system means that those areas get the same cuts and are least able to fill the gap through council tax or retained business rates. As noble Lords have pointed out, the double whammy here is that these areas are likely to have the highest levels of increasing demand, too.
UK councils have fewer powers to raise revenue locally than any other G7 nation, with 95% of the UK’s tax revenue and 75% of public spending controlled centrally. So, when the Minister tells us about the increase in core spending power, as I am sure she is about to do, please remember that 44% of the additional core spending power available to councils will go solely to fund the cost increases in commissioned adult social care, due to the national living wage increase. This leaves a reduced amount of funding to address the impact of national living wage increases on other parts of the local government workforce and outsourced services that are highly exposed to the national living wage, such as waste collection and disposal, let alone the impacts of inflation, demand pressures and other cost drivers across all services.
As the right reverend Prelate mentioned, every aspect of our community life has been impacted. Every service has been affected. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, pointed out the impact on our local democracy; it is not what people become councillors to do. This is not what communities expect; they are paying more in council tax and getting less back in services. We know that people truly value the services that impact on their lives every day, as soon as they walk out of their front door—but look at what has happened to them. Net spending on cultural services has been cut by 43%, with sport and leisure facilities down by 44%. England has lost almost 400 swimming pools since 2010.
Sport development and community recreation has been cut by 59% per person, and spending on parks and green spaces has been cut by 30%. Community centres have been cut by 39% and libraries by 50%—800 libraries have been cut. Museums and galleries have been cut by 40% and theatres and public entertainment by 38%. The noble Baronesses, Lady Bull and Lady Miller, the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and the noble Lords, Lord Foster and Lord Freyberg, all spoke very powerfully about the impact of local government cuts on cultural services.
More than half of areas have made cuts of more than 50% to transport and highways. This is even worse when you look at some areas, such as North Yorkshire, Bath and North East Somerset, and Lambeth, where there have been cuts of over 90% to highways work—no wonder there are potholes. Think of the negative impact of that on local economies.
These are services that everyone uses, but what about the most vulnerable in our communities? Some of the high-demand, high-cost services that local government delivers are used by only a very small percentage of our community. With services such as adult care, children’s services and temporary and emergency accommodation, many people will not realise the extent of the funding gap until they try to use that service. A recent County Councils Network report tells us that children’s and adult care services are consuming two-thirds of their total budgets. Surely, we should judge the strength of our communities and society by the way we deliver to the most vulnerable.
There are rising costs in children’s social care, with budgets up by 13.6%, driven by huge increases in placement costs. LGA research has shown that, in 2022-23, councils paid for over 1,500 placements costing £10,000 or more per week—over 10 times as many as the 120 placements purchased by councils at that price in 2018-19. It is way past time that this private-sector racketeering was brought to an end.
Costs of home-to-school transport are escalating, with budgets up by 23.3% in the last year, equalling a 130% cash-terms increase since 2016-17. Increasing costs and demand in adult social care means that budgeted spend increased by £2.5 billion in the last financial year. Costs of homeless services are increasing, with multiple contributory cost and demand drivers pushing budgets up by nearly 20% last year. Government data shows that more than 104,000 households were in temporary accommodation at the end of March last year, the highest figures since records began. Some district councils are now spending 30% to 40% of their total budget on emergency accommodation.
In most local areas, funding to the voluntary community sector from local government has either been cut or dried up all together, with seven in 10 organisations having withdrawn from public service delivery altogether, according to the excellent briefing from the National Council for Voluntary Organisations. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned this. When authorities issue a Section 114 notice, both the NCVO and Women’s Aid report that all their funding is cut immediately. I do not have time to go into the pressure on housing revenue accounts, but the recent decision to remove councils’ rights to retain 100% of right-to-buy receipts, at a time when we should be encouraging a surge in provision of new social housing, is incomprehensible. We need 90,000 new social homes a year, so that cut was a crazy decision.
Levelling up means nothing if we cannot support vulnerable children and adults, the homeless, the voluntary sector, domestic abuse victims and the leisure and arts sectors. Everything I have outlined will have long-term impacts. There will be pressure on acute services from not funding early intervention properly, and pressure on the NHS when our vulnerable residents cannot be looked after in their own homes. There will be an impact on the health and mental health of people and communities when their leisure and culture opportunities get closed down, and there will be significant long-term impacts of poor-quality, unaffordable and insecure housing. Young people will lose their opportunities and aspirations because their learning needs have not been met. New homes will not be delivered or will be delayed because of cuts to planning departments. There is such a simple solution: just allow local authorities full cost recovery on major planning applications. The noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, both mentioned that.
There will be a dramatic impact on the economy when local government cannot deliver either the infrastructure or the economic development support to meet business needs. The Government are quite simply closing down the best route—the local, devolution route—towards ensuring that we get the growth that the country needs to fund our public services properly.
I have been in local government for almost 30 years. My colleagues around the country are heroes, from those in parish and town councils—mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market—to those in the larger metropolitan authorities; they deliver for their communities, even in these most devastating and toughest of times. Please give them the trust and respect they deserve, give them long-term funding settlements, and work with them to reform the broken funding system—I was pleased to hear that the new noble Lord, Lord Fuller, is working on this project. Fix the broken business rates system that fails both businesses and the communities where they operate; give authorities the strong fiscal devolution they need, not the piecemeal approach we have seen in recent years; and then leave them alone to get on with it. Local councils, in touch with their local communities, will always deliver better than any Whitehall directive, even a levelling-up mission.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities (Baroness Scott of Bybrook) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for bringing forward this important debate on the current state of local government finances and the impact on local communities. I also thank all noble Lords for their considered and insightful contributions today.
The Government are clear in their support for councils—there is no decline in that support—and the vital work they do to support local residents in all corners of the country. It is important to start by recognising some of the things that are happening. In Bolton, Stoke and Wandsworth, the councils have all recently renovated or opened new library spaces to the public. In Warwick and North Yorkshire, we have seen the opening of new leisure centres in Kenilworth and Knaresborough, and in Sandwell, Knowsley and Rushmoor, levelling-up funding will deliver improved leisure centres and facilities for local residents.
The Government are committed to delivering for our towns. In October of last year, we announced the investment of £1.1 billion into 55 towns across the country, with each town receiving a £20 million endowment-style fund to invest over the next decade. This will allow our towns to develop long-term visions and to deliver change for their residents, such as the regeneration of Ashburner Street, in Bolton. Finally, in Blackpool, the central regeneration scheme is scheduled to get under way, following planning approval, with an estimated 1,000 jobs set to be created as a result.
That is only a very small sample of the achievements and developments that councils across this country have made in recent months and years, all of which have made a positive impact on their local communities. All local authorities across the country should know that we place the utmost importance on the partnership between central and local government, and recognise the crucial work they do in delivering day in and day out for our local communities.
However, as has been mentioned, the Government recognise the pressures that some places face in delivering this work. We have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, that we are letting it get worse. We are not letting it get worse, and I will mention more about what we have done this year to help local authorities. Many of the problems that these places face, and that we all face as a country, are driven by global economic factors and the resulting higher inflation. That is why the Prime Minister has prioritised and successfully delivered on his commitment to halving inflation. However, we are all aware that demand for key services that councils provide, and the costs of those services, continue to rise steeply as well, not least because of an ever-aging population that, quite rightly, requires increasing social care support.
In February, the Government announced the local government finance settlement for 2024-25. This settlement makes up to £64.7 billion available to local authorities next year, an increase in core spending power of £4.5 billion on last year, equivalent to 7.5% in cash terms. This above-inflation increase demonstrates that the Government are standing behind councils up and down the country and are listening to them.
We have additionally taken action to provide further support to local government to enable continued delivery while wider system reforms for social care are implemented. At the final local government finance settlement, the Secretary of State announced that we are providing £1.5 billion in additional grant for social care through the settlement for 2024-25 compared to 2023-24. Having listened to the views of local government, this includes an additional £500 million for the social care grant.
While being mindful of the level of adult care provision, where possible councils should use this uplift to invest in areas that help also place children’s social care services on a financially sustainable footing. This includes investment in expanding family help and targeting early intervention, expanding kinship care and boosting the number of foster places.
Further to this, in the Budget earlier this month the Chancellor announced £165 million to support councils to improve the quality of, and increase capacity in, residential children’s homes, so that children with the most complex needs can be cared for in a provision that meets those needs. This funding will boost local authority-run provision and, in doing so, respond to concerns that excessive profiteering—as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage—and often poor quality is threatening the sustainability and outcomes of local government children’s services.
Nevertheless, we recognise that, sometimes, private placement costs are too high, and that council tax payers are stuck footing the bill. The Government’s position is that this is an issue with profiteering rather than profit. Through reforms to children’s social care, they will continue to explore what action is needed to best support councils. The Government will be developing proposals on what more can be done to combat profiteering, bring down costs and create a more sustainable market for residential placements, which they will publish later this year.
The Government recognise the significance of special educational needs pressures on councils. This is why the Spring Statement committed £105 million towards a wave of 15 new special free schools, to create over 2,000 additional places for children with special educational needs and disabilities across England. On top of this specific funding for social care and SEND, the Government have committed to a 4% funding guarantee that will ensure that all councils receive at least a 4% increase in their core spending power before any local choices on council tax, efficiencies or reserves. We have listened to the many councils and the many things they told us. They would otherwise have experienced cash losses in funding next year, and we have stepped in to prevent that.
We are committed to supporting councils wherever they are in the country. This is in answer to the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, about Luton. The most relatively deprived areas of England will be receiving 18% more per dwelling in available resource through the 2024-25 settlement than the least deprived areas; those councils, such as Luton and others, will be getting more. We understand that those councils have faced historic challenges in tackling deprivation. It is also why we have increased the value of the rural services delivery grant—as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath—by over 15% to £110 million, to support rural authorities dealing with the unique challenges of serving very dispersed populations. That is a second successive year of above-inflation increases for this grant.
The action we have taken to support local government in this financial settlement and beyond demonstrates our commitment to the sector. We recognise and thank those in the sector for the important contribution they make in delivering local services for their communities, up and down the country. We have worked in partnership with representatives, sector leaders and local councils, to ensure that this settlement helps to meet the needs of local government. This engagement has been a vital part of the decision-making for this settlement. When local councils speak to us, we listen, and this includes those councils that face the most significant challenges.
The Government also work closely with councils to understand the specific pressures that local government is facing. They are looking at a range of data on demand for services and the costs faced by councils. As a result of the local government finance settlement, the vast majority of local authorities will be able to set balanced budgets in 2024-25. We have published details of exceptional financial support agreed with a small number of councils, but the vast majority of this support relates to six councils where there has been severe local failure. The Government have had to step in there and take the most serious action through statutory intervention.
A small number of other councils requested financial support on an exceptional basis, due to specific local pressures that they were unable to manage themselves. We stand ready to speak to any council that has concerns about its ability to manage its finances or faces pressures it has not planned for. Our door is always open to them.
Before I conclude, I will answer as many of noble Lords’ questions as I can. If I do not get through all of them, obviously I will write. First, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Hamwee and Lady Bull, brought up local government funding reform. We remain committed to updating the system in the next Parliament, and will work closely with local partners to take stock of the challenges and opportunities that they face. Of course we will consult with them before any potential funding reforms, but we talked to councils last year about any of the reforms we could make and they did not want any disruption or uncertainty at that time.
The noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Hussain, brought up council tax reform. The Government continue to protect local tax payers from excessive increases. We believe that our approach strikes a fair balance and is an additional local democratic check and balance on local authorities. We are not allowing council tax to increase in place of increased funding; it is provision for a balanced package that includes a substantial increase for this coming year, as I said.
The noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, brought up audit issues and the backlog. Local audit is vital in supporting democratic accountability and providing assurance for local people and their elected representatives. At the time of its abolition, we believed that the Audit Commission was too centralised and that it encouraged local bodies to focus more on the views of the commissioner than on local people. The Government are working with the Financial Reporting Council to tackle a significant backlog of local audits and put the system on a sustainable footing for the future.
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
Does the Minister think it acceptable that 99% of local authorities did not clear their audits in time last year?
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)
No, I do not. We will work with local authorities on that issue.
The Government have invested £5.5 billion on highways maintenance since 2021. In 2023, we provided an additional £200 million to fix the equivalent of 4 million potholes. In October last year, the Government announced £8.3 billion of new funding, over a 10-year period, for local road resurfacing. We are putting in extra money and not asking councils to find it in their base budgets.
My noble friend Lady Eaton and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, brought up the Office for Local Government. Oflog aims to provide authoritative and accessible data and analysis about the performance of local government, which is important, and to support its improvement. It is still in its infancy, but its three aims are: to inform, by improving access to data; to support, by facilitating sector-led improvement; and to seek any potential failures that it can find, getting in early to support our local authorities.
The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, brought up the issue of local democracy and devolution. If anybody sat through the levelling-up Bill in this Chamber, they will know that devolution is at the heart of our plans to increase economic growth and level up the whole country. We remain committed to seeing more empowered and accountable local leaders to do this, who can pave the way for that growth and innovate because they know the challenges and what is best needed for their areas.
There was quite a lot of talk on planning authorities and whether local authorities should have the ability to set their own planning fees. This came from my noble friend Lady Eaton, who has so many years in local government—probably more than many of us who have a lot there. I thank her for her speech and her insight. We increased the fees considerably last year, by 38% for major applications and 25% for other applications. We have done another couple of things to help the planning sector. We have what we are calling a planning super-squad: this is an important team of senior planners who can go into a local authority that has a large or complex application and help it with the capacity and delivery issues. We hope that this will get some of our bigger planning applications away much quicker. We have invested £13.5 million in that. We have also put £29 million in a planning skills delivery fund. That is to help local planning authorities with their backlogs. We are doing a lot but, as we said on the LURB as it went through, we will not look at local authorities setting their own planning fees because we feel it might destabilise things, by having different areas with different fees across the country.
My noble friend Lady Eaton also brought up the right-to-buy receipts. At the Budget earlier this year, the Government announced increases in flexibilities available for local authorities to fund a higher percentage of the cost of replacement of affordable homes. That is taking right-to-buy sales from 40% to 50%. We hope that this will allow local authorities greater resources to allocate towards what we know is important housebuilding in the social rented sector.
The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, brought up business rates. We have ensured that all current enhanced business rate retention areas will continue for the next year. During this time, the Government will continue to review the role of such arrangements as a source of income for areas, and their impact on local economic growth and as part of the deeper devolution commitments as set out in the levelling-up White Paper.
The noble Lord also brought up council reserves. The Government consider reserves to be an important part of the resources available to local councils. Interestingly, reserves remain significantly higher since the pandemic, having risen £31.6 billion over that time, but we expect councils to use their reserves appropriately when there are pressures on them.
I am conscious of the time, so I will move to something that most noble Lords brought up, which was quite an interesting part of the debate: culture and the arts. I will ask my noble friend Lord Parkinson, the Minister for the DCMS, to read Hansard—oh, he is here; that is good timing. The debate was wider than just local government, and is something to do with the responsibilities between local and central government, so we will talk about it.
There were some interesting issues. The majority of funding that comes to local government is not ring-fenced in recognition, quite rightly, that local authorities are best placed to make local decisions. I totally agree with all the speakers that arts, culture, sport and heritage make our communities unique and vibrant. They also drive economic growth, give jobs and improve well-being. We encourage councils to reflect on the important role that these sectors play.
We have provided support for the cultural sector across the country. At the Spring Budget in 2024, the Chancellor confirmed the allocation of £100 million for local cultural projects, recognising the importance of pride for the place. This included a number of nationally significant cultural projects such as the British Library North project in Leeds and the National Railway Museum in York. Smaller amounts were also given to places that did not get levelling-up programmes, including Maldon, Erewash and North Northamptonshire, which have all been awarded £5 million of capital funding. I was also interested to hear that a new studio was announced in the north-east last week. The new north-east mayoral combined authority intends to use £25 million of flexible funding to help that scheme.
I am out of time so I close by saying that we recognise the scale of the financial pressures caused by inflation and the wider economic circumstances that have put local authorities across the country under acute strain. To address this, we have listened to the public and engaged with local authorities; this is why we have provided the substantial increase in support above inflation that this funding settlement provides. Once again, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for bringing forward this debate and all noble Lords for their contributions. I look forward to continuing discussions with them.
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who took part in this debate. I must say, I have appreciated the richness of what we have heard today. I hope that the Government will take note of a lot of the valuable comments made. I pay particular tribute to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, who picked out the five key words in this debate: the impact on local communities. We have a tendency to debate funding settlements and fiscal policy but the impact on local neighbourhoods, people and communities was the objective of this debate.
I listened carefully to the Minister’s reply and was pleased by one thing. I agree about the work being undertaken to make residential placements for children more sustainable; I hope that that is going to be completed fairly rapidly.
The Minister said that there has been no decline in the support for councils by the Government. I do not agree. She quoted a whole set of examples of new things happening across a range of local authorities but, first, you cannot generalise from the particular, and, secondly, they were capital projects. I am talking about the impact mostly on revenue of the switch into adult social care, which is not being recompensed for local community services.
The Government capped local authorities on council tax. Since 2016, they have required local authorities to increase council tax for the social care precept by 2%. Had all that money been supplied by the Government nationally, that 2% each year compounded would have been available for those services to those local communities. The whole point of my debate is trying to point out that we have got out of kilter here and that something needs to be done.
I am very interested in the Minister’s statement about reserves. We used to have clear rules about reserves and contingencies in local government. When we had the Audit Commission, we had all of these things. Given the, I think, £31 billion that she cited, I would love for the Minister to write to me to say what proportion of that is earmarked, what proportion is unearmarked and, indeed, what proportion is actually in-year contingencies. It would be helpful to know that.
I thank everyone for this debate; it has been helpful. I hope that this Government, and any future Government, will listen. I hope that the Government will undertake a fair funding review, which has been promised over so many years but has never happened. At that point, we might get the word “local” back into government.
Human Rights: Sportswashing
(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Scriven
That this House takes note of countries that use sporting events to “sportswash” their human rights record, and the role of sporting bodies in aiding this practice.
Lord Scriven (LD)
My Lords, I am delighted to open this debate on a very important yet often overlooked issue: sportswashing. We all know the positive power that sport has in bringing people together, the pride and enthusiasm, self-development, building resilience, fostering team spirit and promoting the best of what it is to be human. But beyond all this is a practice that operates in the shadows—sportswashing.
In framing this debate, I wish to be clear about what my focus on sportswashing is. It is a political decision by some Governments to use sports events, teams or individuals to divert attention from their controversial actions, human rights abuses or political agendas. Essentially, it is a form of reputation laundering through the world of sport.
How is this practice employed? One of the most common tactics is for countries with tarnished images to build for then host major sporting events. These events attract global attention, providing an opportunity for Governments to present positive imaging while diverting attention away from issues such as political repression, corruption or human rights abuses. Government bodies also invest heavily in high-profile sports clubs to enhance the investor’s global image; we see that with Saudi Arabia and Newcastle United, and also with McLaren and the Bahrain sovereign fund. It is a real concern for some in football and F1 that foreign states could be investing in and using UK-based sporting teams to sportswash their human rights record at home. Another strategy involves signing athletes to promote a positive image; we all remember seeing David Beckham at the Qatar World Cup.
There is nothing new about this; we can trace sportswashing back, although the term came about in 2015. One only has to look at fascist Italy’s 1934 World Cup and the Nazis’ 1936 Olympic Games to see sportswashing in practice. Recently, we have seen sportswashing Olympics held in China and Russia; Gulf states, such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, hosting F1 races; and Qatar holding the recent World Cup.
It has gained much more prominence recently. The dilution of news outlets has made it harder to get one unified and consistent message out to large worldwide audiences but major international sporting events still grab attention and get global focus in a way that few other platforms can. States run by autocrats or royal dynasties, which have poor human rights records or lack respect for normal democratic values, are the ones that have proved themselves the best practitioners. China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain have become famous for it.
For example, Saudi Arabia’s total investment since 2021 in trying to improve its image via sport is around £4.9 billion, which is almost the equivalent of the GDP of Barbados. The Bahraini authorities have reportedly signed a new deal with F1, running through to 2036, which costs £41 million each year to stage F1 races there. Most, if not all, of this money is handed over to sporting ruling bodies, such as FIFA and F1, which are private bodies and rely on these massive sums, and make the individuals who run them very wealthy.
Some say it is important to allow these countries to host such sporting events as it brings about change. The last time we heard that was from Gary Neville, who was paid to be a TV pundit at the Qatar World Cup. Did sustainable and real change from the FIFA World Cup come to LGBT+ people in Qatar? No, the money was paid over to FIFA and sportswashing happened. There was no improvement in human rights for the LGBT community there. It is clear that sustainable change does not happen when sporting events are held in states such as Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Qatar. In fact, things get worse when controlling sporting bodies, autocrats and ruling royal families refuse to accept that human rights abuses even happen, some linked to the sporting events themselves. I am sure that many noble Lords will remember FIFA banning the OneLove armband in Qatar.
Others argue that sport is sport and politics should not be brought into sport. Many agree, but let us be clear why sport and politics are colliding. It is not because of those who are pointing out that sportswashing exists. It is because political decisions are being made by autocrats and ruling royal families to invest in sport events to turn the spotlight away from their record on human rights and democratic abuses. The investment in sportswashing is a political act, so those who say “No politics in sport” should support calls to deal with this political practice of sportswashing through tighter rules and regulations for sporting bodies, teams and clubs.
I turn to one in-depth example of sportswashing: F1 racing in Bahrain, an issue that I have seen close up since 2018. I declare an interest as the vice-chair of the APPG on Democracy and Human Rights in the Gulf. I got involved when the Bahrain Institute for Rights and Democracy, which I thank for its helpful briefings for today’s debate, brought to my attention the case of Najah Yusuf, who in 2017 was arrested, sexually assaulted, tortured and falsely sentenced to three years in prison after she made a stand on social media against sportswashing and the 2017 Bahrain F1 race. The interesting fact about Najah’s case is that, in the court ruling, the court referenced the F1 race and her activism against it on social media as one of the reasons for her sentence—a direct link between F1 racing in Bahrain and the sentencing of an individual standing up for human rights and against sportswashing. Due to international pressure, she was released early. I have since met Najah. She told me of the soul-destroying, continuing abuses that she and her family have received from the Bahraini authorities for standing up to F1 sportswashing in her country. This includes, but is not restricted to, her losing her civil service job and the police continually harassing her family.
Last year four individuals were arrested, threatened, verbally abused and forced to sign a plea restricting their right to protest in future after they held a protest near the Bahrain International Circuit during the F1 race. This was despite F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali’s assurances that
“individuals should be allowed to protest against and criticise our event without intimidation or reprisals”.
When asked about the arrests, F1 reiterated a false statement by the Bahraini Government denying their occurrence. It still failed to acknowledge that these arrests took place and to correct the record on F1’s website, even when confronted with evidence to the contrary after the Bahraini authorities were forced to concede that these events had indeed taken place.
These four Bahraini citizens were subject to further reprisal and harassment this year, ahead of the F1 race. Two of the protesters, Hajer Mansoor and Muneer Mushaima, had their family houses raided. The other two, Najah Yusuf and Ali Muhana, received police summonses. Hajer Mansoor’s son has been arrested without a warrant. This 20 year-old young man, Sayed Hashim AlWadaei, was arrested after a house raid last month and has subsequently been tortured and interrogated while blindfolded, without the presence of his lawyer, on allegations of participating in unauthorised protest. It is clear that his arrest was strategically timed to coincide with the F1 testing, and that his detention was extended in the lead-up to the race for political reasons—namely, to silence all protest surrounding the Bahrain Grand Prix.
I have made repeated requests over the last few years to engage with Mr Domenicali, the CEO of F1, to discuss potential human rights issues linked to his races, and the lack of due diligence carried out by F1 on where they race. In the last month I have personally reached out to him on two occasions to ask him to intervene, due to the nature and timing of Mr AlWadaei’s arrest, as it appears to be linked and timed to deter F1 protests in Bahrain. Unfortunately, a familiar pattern has emerged: Mr Domenicali has not even acknowledged my letters and emails, and has refused any discussion or engagement with me or any other organisation with expertise in human rights abuses in Bahrain when these abuses, and a potential link between these events and F1, have been brought to his attention.
Mr Domenicali’s arrogance, lack of professionalism and non-engagement left me with no alternative but to seek this debate, and to seek further regulation of the practices of F1 and other such sporting bodies based here in the UK. His leadership of F1 is damaging the reputation of his sport, as he refuses to engage with the issues around F1 and human rights. He thinks he can just receive the reported £574 million from the Bahrain authorities up to 2036 that makes him and his organisation richer, while having nothing to do with the real issues that his sport is helping to cloak in Bahrain.
As I said, this is a pattern of the senior leadership in F1, based here in London. Since 2018 I have brought attention to individual and systematic cases of human rights abuses linked to F1 races in the Gulf. F1 has never acknowledged the link—even in the case of Najah. When the court specifically linked her sentence to the criticism of the F1 race in Bahrain, F1 said that no link existed. I was granted a meeting with F1’s senior leaders back in 2018, but they have allowed no further direct contact and I have seen fellow parliamentarians ignored when they have raised potential issues around F1 racing and human rights abuses. On one occasion there was an outright refusal to meet me over F1’s human rights policy. Thank goodness for drivers such as Sir Lewis Hamilton, who has had the courage to say that human rights issues are around and that he is not convinced that F1 going to countries such as Bahrain and Saudi Arabia helps change happen.
My recent contact, via a letter to Mr Domenicali on 14 February and a reminder on 11 March, was an attempt to collaboratively explore with him his comments that F1 is “a force for good” in these countries and can bring about a slow and quiet change. I asked him to show me the evidence, the due diligence done, the results from these investigations and the expert human rights organisations that F1 meets. Again, I did not get an acknowledgment of these letters. It is as though he fears the evidence coming before the public. What is the F1 leadership hiding? What do the evidence and due diligence show, if indeed they are being done at all?
What was even more galling was to see the British ambassador to Bahrain, Mr Long—while I was seeking reassurance on due diligence around human rights issues— posting on social media, helping to promote the Bahrain Grand Prix and endorsing Mr Domenicali’s approach, without acknowledging the issues of human rights abuses potentially linked to F1 races there.
I have four questions for the Minister. First, what is the Government’s view of sportswashing, does his department have a working definition of it and does it plan to adopt the policy of the Government on the issue? Secondly, will the Government make representations regarding the arrest of the 20 year-old Bahraini, Sayed Hashim AlWadaei, during F1 testing this year, and will they try to make a determination about the links of his arrest to F1?
Thirdly, will the new Bill on football regulation that is in front of Parliament include rules and obligations around foreign state ownership of clubs and teams here in the UK, as the Government have just agreed to do around press ownership? If so, will these rules and regulations be extended to UK foreign-supporting companies and bodies, such as Formula 1, to ensure that they carry out proper due diligence, including engaging on issues related to human rights violations?
Fourthly, despite repeated concerns raised directly with the UK Government and the ambassador in Bahrain about the use of sportswashing and abuses linked to F1, including by many Members of Parliament and rights groups, why has the UK ambassador to Bahrain chosen actively to facilitate a race that has links to human rights abuses? What steps will the Government take to ensure that British diplomats take seriously concerns raised about human rights violations and are seen not to potentially aid sportswashing?
I look forward to listening to the contributions of other noble Lords, and I beg to move.
Lord Moynihan (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for leading this debate, which provides a valuable opportunity to consider the link between the role of international sport and human rights. In doing so, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I emphasise that I draw in particular on my time as chair of the British Olympic Association at the time of the London 2012 Olympic Games. I also believe it is important to review the recent World Cup in Qatar.
Far from sportswashing human rights records, the hosting of major sporting events in countries where concern rightly exists about human rights actually does the opposite. It brings with it a spotlight into the darker recesses of the country, which generates action and change, in a way that, when the sporting spotlight is turned off, international attention and calls for change diminish. This debate effectively bears testimony to the fact that sport provides a platform to highlight, not hide, human rights abuses, as we have just heard through Najah’s story. I have long taken an active stance on issues concerning human rights. All Governments need to act decisively on human rights abuses, wherever they exist, by making the strongest representations to the country concerned. However, the question raised by today’s debate is about not condemnation of human rights violations but whether the cancellation or boycott of an international sporting event is the best way to promote change in the country concerned.
For example, was a boycott of the Winter Olympic Games in Beijing 2022, for both able-bodied athletes in the Winter Olympic Games and disabled athletes in the Winter Paralympic Games, reasonable, proportionate and effective as the right way to change the course of Chinese domestic policy on human rights? If we are to ask sportsmen and sportswomen to walk away from their careers and close off the chance to compete on the ultimate stage for which they have made a lifetime of sacrifices then the athletes will rightly ask whether the Government are taking action on a much wider front. Calls for a boycott would be very different if trade, cultural exchanges and diplomatic relations were curtailed, rather than seeing growth in trade, the promotion of cultural exchanges and the strengthening of diplomatic relations, as was the case in Beijing.
I remember, as an athlete, being called on to boycott the Olympic Games in Moscow. The team was being turned into a single political pawn to assuage the conscience of the Government of the day, who opposed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. No other action was proposed. I appreciate that it is not an easy question; indeed, it was made more difficult when, during the same month as the calls for a boycott of the Beijing Winter Olympic Games on the grounds that the Government were sportswashing their human rights record, with criticisms of the international governing bodies aiding this practice, Governments around the world overwhelmingly elected China—as a champion of human rights—to the UN Human Rights Council, achieving 139 votes out of a possible 193.
Looking beyond the athletes to sports boycotts in the past, we find that they have a patchy record of effectiveness at best. Boycotts have been used to express opposition to patterns of gross human rights violations and to communicate the repugnance of the international community as a whole, or at least a large part of it, at the policies and practices of a particular nation or nations. All have been ineffective tools in this regard, with the one notable exception of South Africa. With the benefit of hindsight, few would deny the significant contributions, certainly at the moral and symbolic level, that the boycott made to the overthrow of the apartheid regime, but it was part of a much wider package of measures taken by the international community on the trade and diplomatic fronts.
There was a very personal sense of outrage at the heart of the apartheid debate—namely, abhorrence over racial discrimination anywhere and at any time. The success of the sporting boycott was due to the fact that the international community was in broad agreement over taking a wide and comprehensive range of punitive political measures against the South African Government, of which sport was actually tangential but important.
It is my view that, for actions of this kind to be effective in tackling what the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, has defined as sportswashing, they must have the broad support of the international community and be the product not of posturing or reprisal but of an astute and practical moral calculus, including a wide-ranging package of trade, travel and diplomatic measures to lead to action that will best advance the cause of human rights and the well-being of those whose rights are violated. Because surely all of us agree that politics and sport, regrettably, are intricately interwoven.
To address human rights issues in relation to international sporting events in isolation from the broader diplomatic framework would, I contend, serve no useful or realistic purposes. I absolutely respect the strength of feeling on human rights in this Chamber and count myself as part of that coalition. It is almost 50 years to the day that the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, and I went to the Philippines as young MPs to write a critical report on the Philippine Government’s human rights abuses, but the reality is that life has changed in those 50 years.
As the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, rightly said, the centre of gravity in professional sport is effectively on the move. The 150 years during which the legacy of de Coubertin made its home in western Europe has shifted to the Middle East, and it will not come back to the West. If we pick out sportsmen and sportswomen to act as our champions to assuage our conscience over human rights abuses, we will have missed the central point: that the only losers in this scenario are actually the sportsmen and sportswomen concerned. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, that sports boycotts, which are the necessary corollary of avoiding the concept of sportswashing, when used in isolation from the many tools at the disposal of Governments, have failed and are never likely to succeed. I do not see our Government imposing widespread economic and political sanctions and a trade ban, for example, on China, Qatar, Saudi Arabia or India, to name a few.
On the contrary, I take the view that the significant advantage of international sporting events is their high media profile. This ensured that the spotlight of international attention shone brightly on Qatar during the World Cup. This spotlight, as it ranges over countries where human rights are a concern, will, in time, assist in bringing dividends. I take the view that international sport is a force for good in itself; that engagement is preferable to isolation; that precedents show sports boycotts rarely achieve their goals; and that seeking to impact countries through avoiding sporting contact is highly unlikely to achieve positive improvements on the ground. It could become a symbolic gesture, which would isolate and punish countries, and potentially prove to be a counterproductive and retrograde step.
Ultimately, and to me this point is overlooked by those supporting ceasing sporting contact with countries of concern regarding human rights, the greatest damage will befall sportsmen and sportswomen, and, in the case of the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the overwhelming number of athletes who are not motivated by money. Neither the Olympic nor the world sporting movement, nor indeed anyone, should have expected sport alone to bring countries into line with international human rights standards. Expectations of sport-led metamorphosis are simply unrealistic, and real change in a country requires consolidating the position of that country’s domestic reformers and a wider international public recognition of human rights. I do not believe that international sport should be expected to solve a problem to which the Governments of the international community have yet to find an answer.
At the same time, it would be wrong to underestimate the growing international influence of sport as the centre of gravity moves to the Middle East—here I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. Just as China’s human rights record fits uneasily with the Olympic ideals, so does the idea that sport can harbour prejudice, geographical or otherwise. Sport is about humanity, and the benefits of the Olympic Games continue to contribute to, not detract from, the changes we all seek.
The same underlying principles underpin international football. The moment Qatar won the bid, it recognised and knew that the spotlight during the World Cup in Doha would be focused on its human rights record. Qatar was in need of comprehensive reforms to its labour market, and I argue that the World Cup has in part led it to adopt labour standards that are the best in the region. It invited in the International Labour Organization and invited it to stay after the World Cup—the only country in the region to do that. The fiercely independent International Labour Organization’s reports on material improvements in occupational injuries and heat stress-related disorders were really important. Qatar reacted—it had to react—to international pressure and implemented measures to prevent passport confiscation, with the full removal of exit permits expanded to all workers in 2020. Of course, more can and must be done, but I argue that it is the very spotlight of international attention on major sporting events that accelerates progress in the alleviation of human rights abuses, in the same way that the immovable date for the opening ceremony in 2012 accelerated the regeneration of the East End of London by 10 years.
I well remember that, just after the curtain came down on the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, I was sitting near here with representatives of human rights groups, whom I got to know well during the build-up to the Games in Beijing. A prominent and greatly respected senior campaigner looked at me and said, with a wry smile, that he privately wished that the Games would be hosted in Beijing every four years. For the human rights organisations, having the Games every quadrennium in Beijing would have been ideal, because the powerful Olympic torch, fuelled by the Olympic ideals, shone into the deeper recesses of China and gave strength to their important campaigns. But, sadly for him, the Games moved on to London, and the challenges to human rights records in China moved with them.
Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)
My Lords, I declare an interest: I am chair of Sport Wales and, with that, I sit as a board member of UK Sport. I also have a number of other declarations in the register—but I emphasise that these are my personal views.
It is always a privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan—I like to call him my friend in sport. I agree with much of what he said this afternoon. We talk about sport and politics not being linked, but I note that, actually, the medal table is soft politics: “Which is the best country in the world?” When I first came to your Lordships’ House, I was frequently asked, “Is it not really difficult moving from sport to politics?” Actually, sport provides one of the best political training grounds you could wish to have.
I agreed when the noble Lord talked about boycotting. Athletes are being asked to give up a relatively short career and, unless the Government and Ministers do much more around that to offer athletes support, it does not change the conversation too much. I remember that, prior to the Rio Paralympics, which nearly did not happen, a number of Ministers had gone to the Olympics, and then a decision was taken by the Government not to send a ministerial delegation to Rio. I was asked by a number of journalists, “Won’t athletes be desperately upset that Ministers aren’t going?” With all due respect to the Members on the Front Bench, who I know care passionately about sport, I have not met a single athlete who spent many years of their life training to compete in front of a Minister. But there is a value in our role in educating athletes so that they understand the countries and jurisdictions they go into.
I have long said that many athletes should have families like mine. Way before the internet, when I was competing in Seoul, which was my first Paralympics, my father made me go to the library and take out a whole pile of books and make a conscious choice about what my participation in sport was going to be.
This debate is really important because sportswashing gives us a lens to look at the power of sport, but it is only one lens. There are lots of different types of washing. There is purplewashing, in terms of how disabled people are treated and used. Merely putting a wheelchair user in a picture of people doing sport does not mean there is inclusion in a governing body or an international federation.
There is also greenwashing. In my time in sport, I competed at five Games. At the beginning, I am not sure anybody was looking at the green credentials of the Olympics and Paralympics. By the time of Sydney, that was really important: they gathered rain from the roof of the main stadium to water local farms and vegetable patches; they had worm farms for recycling food; athletes were not allowed to take food that they were not able to eat. By the time of Athens, there was a mass recycling programme for collecting the lids of water bottles; if you got 2,500 lids, that bought a wheelchair for a local child. I still argue that that was the biggest competition at the Athens Games, because athletics beat swimming by quite some way. It is educating and moving people along as you go.
Like the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, I worked on the bid and delivery for the 2012 Games. The strapline was: “Inspire a generation”. Well, you cannot have a strapline that says: “Vaguely inspire a few”. But I am really pleased to say that gone are the days when we just dump a big Olympic park into an area and not think about the legacy or the impact it is going to have on the environment around it.
When we look at sport, we have to look at the bigger picture: what is the point of sport? Is it for sport’s sake or for changing lives? I argue that it can be both. Back in 2000, Nelson Mandela famously said:
“Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. It has the power to unite people in a way that little else does. It speaks to youth in a language they understand”.
That is the best of sport, but, as other noble Lords have mentioned, there are also huge challenges in terms of what we do. As we push younger and younger children through the pathway as we aspire to win Olympic and Paralympic medals and World Cups, we have a duty of care to those we encourage to go through the system. I wrote the Duty of Care in Sport report back in 2017 for the Government. Many of those recommendations, based on the work of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, are still waiting to be enacted. It is really important that we talk about these issues and do not just focus on the amazing things sport can bring.
In turn, we have to challenge the international federations. What is the International Olympic Committee doing? What is the International Paralympic Committee doing? What is FIFA doing? Over the years, they have done some work to diversify themselves. It is possibly slower than I might have hoped, but can we really expect an international federation to change the world? The International Paralympic Committee has a campaign called “WeThe15”. Some 15% of the world’s population are disabled. It was a great campaign for the time of Tokyo, but can the IPC really be expected to change the lives of disabled people in every single jurisdiction around the world? I think that is asking too much of sport on its own.
Many noble Lords have heard me say that 2012 was the most amazing Olympics and Paralympics but it did not change the world for disabled people. Just this week, there has been a report from the UN rapporteur on disability rights saying that the UK is a difficult and challenging place for disabled people to live. Most people would be surprised by that. If the UK is a difficult place, other countries are challenging as well.
The Paralympics in China in 2008 certainly did not change the lives of most disabled people in China. That was the first Paralympic Games in which China competed seriously, and it came top of the medal table. It is almost impossible to see that it will ever do anything but that, because there are something like 85 million disabled people in China.
However, what the Paralympics did for Beijing was to change the lives of some of the disabled people living there. It changed the underground—Beijing has a step-free underground system in Beijing—and tactile paving was put in the city. It started that change. Without the Paralympics, that would not have happened.
I went to Beijing in 2005 and was sitting in a meeting and somebody noticed my wedding ring. They asked me whether I was married, and I said yes. Then I mentioned that I had a child, and the room emptied. I was trying to think about what I had said that had potentially been mistranslated; then everyone from that floor of the organising committee was brought in to meet me, because I was the disabled woman who had been allowed to get married. In Beijing at the time, I was not allowed to hire a car, because disabled people were not allowed to drive—or indeed be married or have children. It is heartbreaking when you see those things. The Paralympics helped to move that on at least a little.
I am going to introduce a new phrase, which I am not sure has ever been mentioned in your Lordships’ Chamber, which is “inspiration porn”. You can safely look at it on a government computer; it has not yet thrown up anything too dodgy. It is about the way in which disabled people are treated. This is another conversation that we do not have often enough, about what we are using sport for in changing the rights of disabled people. The challenge with inspiration porn is about how it is reported in the media that every disabled person is inspirational just because they are in society. That is quite hard in sport, because there are inspirational moments. But we have to challenge ourselves in what we are doing, as much as we challenge other countries around the world.
I worked at the IPC Athletics World Championships in Qatar, where disabled people are called “people of determination”. I really struggle with that as a phrase, but actually it explains the life that a lot of disabled people have to lead in coping with their impairment. Having the chance to go there—I would not have gone there in any way other than working in the media—gave me at least some experience of what life is like there for some disabled people. We have to think about whether going to a country shines a light and can shift the dialogue in a way that, if sport was not there, would not be able to happen.
As for how we push back at the IOC and IPC, they have to look at what the Games are going to be in future. The Games are getting bigger and more expensive, with more sports being added. The Athens Olympics cost $15 billion. We demand bigger and better opening ceremonies. The opening ceremony in Beijing had 15,000 people taking part although there were only 11,000 athletes at the Games. The estimated costs of the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics were $38.5 billion, of which more than £20 billion was spent on infrastructure. With regard to the responsibility of the IOC and IPC in moving forward, they can do things in a very different way. The reality is that, if the Games are going to get only more and more expensive, the only countries that will be able to or will want to host them are ones with which we have a fundamental disagreement about human rights.
A slightly brighter area to look at are the Commonwealth Games, which have done some amazing things in inclusion and spreading a really important message of bringing people together. However, the Commonwealth Games are facing a crisis at the moment of countries being unwilling to host, or struggling to host—and in the UK that is something that we will find very hard to do. Sport has to refocus and think very differently about what it wants to be. It comes back to the question of whether it is sport for sport’s sake and physical activity, or whether it is going to do more to try to change the world.
A lot of the area that I work on is around women in sport. The 2012 Games was known as the “women’s Games”—both the Olympics and the Paralympics—with British women dominating. It is incredible to see the rise of women in sport. The number of people who go to watch women’s football is unbelievable; it is something that I dreamt of for years. I have still not forgiven the team behind not giving Mary Earps her own shirt, which was a gross mistake and a missed opportunity.
There are still challenges for women’s sport. For example, the Swiss Football Association has just cut its support for women’s football from £13.5 million to £3.6 million. Women’s sport will be put in a situation where it has to make difficult decisions about where it goes and what support it gets—which, ultimately, will not develop what it is trying to do.
I was very lucky as an athlete because I was never asked to boycott a Games; I honestly do not know what I would have done. It is important, at the moment, for athletes to have that platform. In British sport we now talk about giving athletes a voice and a platform, allowing them to talk about the things that matter to them. We have a responsibility as administrations to educate and support them so that they are not cancelled for having an opinion, but are able to use the very best that sport gives them to keep changing things for the future. We need government support to do that; it cannot be done by sports and athletes on their own. Look at the number of British individuals who sit on international federations in the world of sport; we have to use those voices because, quite frankly, sport can do better. We can do better for sport, but we can use it to change the world.
Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD)
My Lords, what a privilege it is to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thomson, and I pay tribute to her for everything she has done to open up the world of sport to disabled people. It is an inspiring story, and it is a privilege for us to sit in this House with her.
Max Freudmann was an Austrian Jew who ran in the sprints in the 1936 Olympics in Berlin—it is not so long ago; I was in being, if not actually born at the time. Having escaped the Nazis, he was the sports teacher in my grammar school in Wrexham. I still recall his sardonic evaluation of my running style: “Thomas,” he said, “You don’t run—you knit”.
Despite that handicap, I found myself decades later playing rugby football on the Reichssportfeld where the 1936 Games were held. I was playing for Berlin, and although I may not match the medals of the noble Baroness or, indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, I still have the cap that was awarded to me for that privilege. The ground was dominated by a massive limestone podium, the Führerloge, from which the Führer had addressed the crowds. In the Führer’s dressing rooms behind, where the Wrexham team was changing, our captain was warming us up: “Remember what they did to Swansea. Cofio Abertawe!” Heads were banging on the wall and we were exchanging punches to acclimatise ourselves; the air was heavy with sweat. Then the referee put his head round the door and said, “The Berlin team’s short of players”. Well, I drew the short straw and soon found myself in the more relaxed atmosphere, wreathed in cigarette smoke, of the German changing room. You will be pleased to know that the Welshmen won that game, and I just about survived an attempt to knock my head off by an old friend in Wrexham colours.
In 1936, sportswashing had not been invented as a word, but that was the entire purpose of those Games. The Olympic torch relay from Mount Olympus, filmed by Leni Riefenstahl, was an innovation at them. Blonde, blue-eyed Aryans blazed their way through the nations of central Europe which they were shortly thereafter to invade and conquer. The five Olympic rings were carved in stone at Delphi, as though they were an ancient symbol of the original Hellenic games.
Despite assurances given by the German Olympic committee that German Jews would be able to train and be available for selection to the German team, the Nazis, shortly before the Games, simply removed German citizenship from all Jews. Since being a national of the competing country was necessary under Olympic rules, they were thereby banned from competing.
The Americans were highly dubious about competing at all, because they feared that black people would be disqualified. In the event, as your Lordships know, Jesse Owens, with his four gold medals, severely damaged the concept of the master race.
Prior to the games, the Guardian newspaper summed it up:
“This year at Berlin for the first time, we are to see”
athletes
“confessedly exploited not for the peace of the world, not even for the pride of one nation, but as an advertisement for a political party. The conduct of the Games and their setting are to be a demonstration of the excellence of”
the Nazis.
Despite these doubts and reservations, Hitler succeeded in his aim. In an editorial at the close of the Games, a New York paper praised the success and stability of the Nazi regime. Worse than that, and to my regret as president of the Lloyd George Society, David Lloyd George, in the following month of September, visited Berchtesgaden and met Hitler. On his return to Britain, he wrote an article in the Daily Express in which he said:
“I have now seen the famous German leader and also something of the great change he has effected. Whatever one may think of his methods—and they are certainly not those of a parliamentary country—there can be no doubt that he has achieved a marvellous transformation in the spirit of the people, in their attitude towards each other, and in their social and economic outlook”.
The Games gave credibility to Hitler, and I wonder whether, later in 1938, they may have supported the appeasers and, in particular, caused Neville Chamberlain to trust Hitler’s assurances that there would be “peace in our time”. Equally, did they strengthen the isolationists in the United States of America, which stayed out of the war until 1942?
The problem is that sportswashing works. The host country comes out of it looking cleaner and brighter. Worryingly, the choice of sporting venues for the football World Cup, the Olympics or other worldwide competitions rests in the hands of committees made up of people who have sporting, not political, interests and qualifications—and history has shown that money changes hands.
Of course, this choice does not rest solely in the hands of those from liberal democracies. Big money comes from principalities and autocratic powers. How to combat it? Well, there is one set of values that is universal: namely, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the 70th anniversary of which we recently celebrated. All the 193 members of the United Nations are signed up to it.
The International Olympic Committee is to be commended for its adoption in May 2022 of the human rights strategic framework, which references the Universal Declaration. Further, it now interrogates preferred hosts —as they are called—who hope to stage the Olympics, on how they will seek to identify adverse human rights impacts throughout the lifecycle of the Games. We have yet to see how successful the strategy is, but it is a template for all worldwide sporting competitions to follow.
In the past, I was vaguely against sporting boycotts, and the slogan “Keep politics out of sport” was attractive to me. Fifty years ago, which appears to be a significant date, on my way to watch South Africa play at Twickenham, I was confronted by a well-known Liberal—a friend of the noble Lord, Lord Hain—waving a banner objecting to apartheid. After quite an argument, he asked me whether I had any spare tickets so that he could watch the match.
We must never again have the Olympic Games, or any other world competition, motivated to enhance an ideology or a particular political party or to wash away human rights abuses. In today’s world, we should not hesitate to refuse to participate in any such competition—that is the only weapon we have. I heard the argument very firmly put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and there is a great deal in it—but in what other way can the Games be policed if the International Olympic Committee fails to control the way in which they are held?
Does it matter where the United Kingdom is in the medal table, or whether Wales was whitewashed in the Six Nations and got the wooden spoon? Of course it does—it matters to us all—but athletes are rarely political ideologues themselves; it is for the sporting authorities to act. I have no doubt that Max Freudmann was running for himself primarily, and less for his country or indeed his race; he simply wished, as every athlete does, to test himself against the best in the world—and, in Jesse Owens, he found the best.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for securing this important debate. I am honoured to take part alongside the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, who gave a very important speech. I share her great concern about women’s sport, including how far we have to go towards equality and the understanding that we can go backwards as well as forwards, which is sometimes forgotten. I also credit the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for acknowledging having changed his mind; in your Lordships’ House, it is always good to see people’s thinking developing and going forward.
I will go a long way back to a couple of the origins of sporting activity thousands of years ago. One was the ancient Olympics held in honour of Zeus, who, for the ancient Greeks, was the despotic, sexually abusive king of the gods on Mount Olympus. There was the Mesoamerican ball game. Sometimes, positively, it seems to have been used as alternative to war: Topiltzin, the Toltec king, played against three rivals, with the winner getting to rule over the losers. But later in its history, it became associated with human sacrifice and usually decapitation—blood-soaked sport indeed.
I looked up the origins of the term “sportswashing” as we currently use it. It seems to have begun in 2015, when Azerbaijan used the European Games to divert international attention away from human rights in that country. As the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, did, we have to draw a parallel between greenwashing and sportswashing. They both make associations with health, democracy, equality and even environmental action—all positives that are churned up together and supposed to put out something good. But, so often, what we are talking about is a very thin coat over some very nasty things underneath.
It is worth looking at where in the UK the term was first widely used: I think it was probably in 2018, regarding Abu Dhabi, the Manchester City football team and the case of Matthew Hedges, a PhD student who was convicted of spying in the UAE. Eventually, after a great deal of suffering, he was later pardoned.
What we saw was lots of Manchester City supporters coming out to defend the UAE and its record on human rights because they wanted to defend their football team. That is a very interesting example of the way in which sport can be used as a lever and a tool, and Amnesty International was particularly effective in highlighting that at the time.
Closer to the current day, a moment when sportswashing became untenable was when UEFA decided to move the 2022 Champions League final from St Petersburg, President Putin’s hometown. That was after the illegal invasion of Ukraine by the Russian regime, but there had already been extensive sportswashing by what was obviously an authoritarian and internationally aggressive regime. That was at its peak during the 2018 World Cup. The president of FIFA declared at the Kremlin that the world was now “in love” with President Putin—what does that image look like now? Even at the time, it was not hard to see how disturbing that was. Rio Ferdinand and Peter Schmeichel were also at that meeting.
Further back, in Argentina the military junta seized power two years before the 1978 World Cup. When the Argentinian team won the cup, it was seen as a real political boost for the junta that helped to keep it in power.
The 2022 World Cup in Qatar was truly bloodstained and a mark of shame on the so-called beautiful game. In 2010, when Qatar won the right to stage the World Cup, it had only one of the eight stadiums needed. Human Rights Watch reported that to build the rest, and the hotels and roads, more than 2 million migrants were forced to work in sweltering heat and extremely abusive labour conditions. They were abused in the interests of sport—and money, of course, which I will return to. It was reported that at least 6,500 migrant workers died during those 10 years of construction. We are not really that far from the Mesoamerican ball games, are we? This is a country where migrant workers and other residents, should they be LGBTIQA+, face severe repression of their basic human rights, as do many other people. This is despite the fact that in 2016 FIFA signed up to the UN principles on business and human rights, requiring it to
“avoid infringing on the human rights of others”.
The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, spoke extensively about the situation in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. I will not go back over the entire ground that he covered, but it is worth looking at the total list because there has been an explosion of sportswashing by Saudi Arabia. It has spent at least $6.3 billion on sportswashing since 2021—that is 300 sponsorship deals. The Saudi sovereign wealth fund, chaired by Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, and the state-owned oil company—we come back to the link between the environment and sport—have invested in sports such as boxing, racing, football, snooker, golf, ATP tennis, cricket and the America’s Cup regatta, and they are sportswashing what is an increasingly oppressive regime. The regime continues to intervene in Yemen, one of the world’s worst human rights crises, and was responsible for the murder of the Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
I will also briefly revisit—as the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, did—the situation of Bahrain, particularly Formula 1. The regime has regularly used the Grand Prix to enhance its image, and over the past two decades, as the noble Lord outlined, there have been numerous human rights violations directly associated with the event itself; we are coming back to bloodstains again.
I raise, as the noble Lord did specifically, the case of Sayed Hashim AlWadaei, son of Hajer Mansoor, and ask the Government what they are doing in that situation. I am aware that it is not directly in the Minister’s portfolio, but none the less, in this context, he must have expected this question. Would the Minister defend the UK ambassador to Bahrain, Alastair Long, on 2 March 2024 releasing a promotional video celebrating 20 years of F1 in Bahrain? He talked of the vision it took from His Majesty and His Royal Highness the Crown Prince and boasted of Bahrain-UK tourism ties, completely ignoring human rights abuses and actively sportswashing the regime. I remind your Lordships’ House that this is the UK ambassador to Bahrain. Does the Minister consider that acceptable?
An obvious part of this debate on sportswashing is the place of boycotts, as raised by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan. I have to raise the impact of the sports boycott on apartheid South Africa. I very much agree with the noble Lord that the sports boycott was only part of the story, but it was none the less an important part. I have to cross-reference what is generally known as the anti-boycotts Bill that the Government are currently pushing through your Lordships’ House, formally the Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, not currently in his place, spoke extremely powerfully at the Second Reading of that Bill. I urge noble Lords who have not read that speech to do so. He also writes in today’s Guardian about the power of sports boycotts and the power of local action when the national Government were failing to take action. As the noble Lord says in the Guardian,
“the British people’s international solidarities often exceed those of our political leaders”.
That does not, however, absolve the Government of taking action. Noble Lords and I have only covered so much; there are so many issues around the place of repressive regimes in British sport today. So I have a direct question to the Minister: what steps will the Government take to ensure that multi-billion-dollar companies based in the UK are not actively engaged in covering up human rights abuses through their sports-related activities, actively sportswashing and making regimes have a more positive appearance? My second question is: what steps will the Government take to ensure Sayed Hashim’s release?
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, that sport is only a small part of this story. Finance is a big part of the ways in which repressive regimes have infiltrated our society; they have used elements of our financial sector and other elements of our society to make themselves appear respectable. Since my entry into the House, I have talked about the corruption of the London laundromat, the still partly hidden scandal of golden visas and our role as butler to the world’s kleptocrats and populists. That is a term I have borrowed from the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, who gave a speech of that title in your Lordships’ House in February 2022.
It can sometimes seem that sport is small beer in comparison with that wave of corruption that we have invited into the UK—the wave covering up human rights abuses and corruption that has occurred through the City of London and through other British mechanisms. But I come back to the point that the plutocrats and autocrats are people too. They seek acceptance, gilding on tarnished reputations and fake legitimacy, and we have to acknowledge that sport is something that has a very special ability to provide that.
Lord Hayward (Con)
My Lords, first, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, on moving this Motion and on the powerful way in which he covered some very important issues, specifically those relating to Bahrain. I will pick up on some matters that other people have commented on and should identify that, as I think the House knows, I am fortunate enough to be the founder chairman of the world’s first gay rugby club. It is worth remembering that, as was pointed out by the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, human rights matters are issues not just in Bahrain but for the disabled, for women and for the LGBT community, in all sorts of different ways.
On the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, I checked the term “inspiration porn” on my phone and was not confronted by tractors or anything like that. Fortunately, inspiration porn is exactly as she said. However, it is well worth remembering that human rights issues do not apply only to countries in the Middle East, the Far East and to Russia; they apply to all of us, in different ways. Having been the founder chairman of the world’s first gay rugby club, I am fortunate enough to have watched the progress that all gay and lesbian teams have made in this country as they have broken down barriers over the past 30 years. We were an oddity when we were first formed in 1995; now, we are just part of the local leagues and regularly field four teams. There has been a complete change in society and attitudes towards us and our teams, and that is true on a worldwide basis. Sport can change attitudes.
The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, referred to the growth in awareness of women’s sports. It has been quite sensational. Attendances at league matches have grown so much in a short time. Having said that, I remember having a text exchange with the noble Baroness in the middle of the Commonwealth Games, during the disabled marathon. She commented somewhat ruefully, when progress was being made in other ways, on the lack of participation in some disabled sports over the past decade. They have not grown in the way one hoped they would after the great successes of 2012 and onwards.
Several noble Lords referred to sports governing bodies. We all throw up our hands in despair at the behaviour of the vast majority of them. Some have been shown to be corrupt, while we know that others are just chasing the money in some form or another, but my noble friend Lord Moynihan made an important point: any sports boycott or action is effective only when taken as part of an overall international governmental approach. Otherwise, there is no point in asking sportsmen and sportswomen to boycott.
I remember having a conversation with my noble friend Lord Moynihan and Lord Coe about the 1980 British Olympic team being asked to boycott Moscow at the same time as the Bolshoi Ballet arrived in London. What on earth was the point of saying one thing to one group of people and a totally different thing to another? If we are going to send messages, we have to do it across the whole of society. There have been many references to F1; I am pleased that there is no F1 in Russia now, in part because of the international boycott. It no longer takes place. However, I say to F1 that, like other international bodies, it ought to listen to what is taking place.
There is a difference between the four-yearly Olympics and annual events such as Grands Prix. You can sign a contract for a Grand Prix over four, six or eight years and say, “If you don’t make progress, we’re going to cancel the contract immediately through force majeure. Alternatively, the contract won’t be renewed when it ends”. In the case of the Olympics, it is somewhat different, but the Olympics is awarded many years in advance so the International Olympic Committee should be willing to say, “We’ll award it but we want to see progress at the start of the contract, not at the point when the games take place”. That is absolutely the pinnacle of the event but much can be done beforehand.
There has been reference to sportswashing in events right through from the Berlin Olympics in 1936. It is tragic that the person who designed the first Olympic village, which was in Berlin in 1936, committed suicide two days after the closure of the games because it had been identified that one of his grandparents was Jewish and he would rather commit suicide than face anything thereafter.
I want to touch on one element of sport that has not been referred to this afternoon. The sponsors, such as Coca-Cola, Bridgestone and Visa, have an enormous amount to answer for. If they did not sponsor the events, they would not take place where they were. In conclusion, I really think that everybody should look at sponsorship. I quote the Coca-Cola website:
“Coca Cola has been associated with the Olympic Games since 1928”.
Take note: that is before Berlin, yet it is mentioned with pride. It also says that it gives the
“opportunity to … celebrate with sports fans in … countries”
around the world. What do the Uighurs in China, the lesbian and gay communities in Bahrain, and other oppressed minorities think of that? It is not just about sports organisations or Governments; the sponsors also have a lot of questions to answer.
Lord Addington (LD)
My Lords, there are certain debates where you prepare something—at least mentally, in my case—then you have a look at the speaking list and think, “It probably will have all been said”. I looked at this list and said, “Yep, it will have been”. I was right. I started thinking about what I was going to say about the history of sportswashing. Berlin 1936 is the big one. Then I thought, what about the Cold War? Then I saw Lord Moynihan’s name on the list. He is a man who confronted a token gesture and went along with Lord Coe to that environment and said, “I’m going to compete”.
Before I say anything else, I say this: asking an athlete not to go to the Olympics when they have the chance is like asking a politician to turn down a safe seat. It is that important. It fundamentally matters. It justifies your life until that point. If somebody does not realise that and pontificates in the background that this is an easy choice, ignore that person on this subject because they have no concept of what they are talking about. I ask noble Lords to remember that, please.
The other thing is that organisers probably have much more opportunity to intervene in this process. Before the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, got up, I had nice things to say about the idea of sponsors and the ongoing relationship with F1. He said it better than I would have but the fact of the matter is that there is nothing like F1 for being a huge conglomeration of money and razzmatazz. Let us face it: there might even be a few competitors who quite like that and might want to keep it.
The organisers not being prepared to stand up and ask for changes to be made, or to say that there is a price to pay for having this huge benefit, is an act of rampant cowardice. They should really be doing something about it. Much of it is British based, so surely we should be saying, “If you’re going to oppress your population, please do not do it on our watch”. I would have thought that that is the very least we could do, and indeed sensible. But what have they done? They have annoyed my noble friend, and we have had a debate, on the record, and a response is coming.
Pretending that something is not there does not work. I hope that we, and others like us in the rest of the world, will point this out. Saying that it is not there and that nothing is happening is absurd—how much more “feeding the machine” can you get? We should take back the message—and I hope the Government will say it—that we do not expect reality and logic to be defied. You have asked the world to your country and we can see what is going on. We are all looking at you and we all know what is happening. Please can we remember the power that we have, and the power of our press in putting out reports. If you ask us into your house, we will comment on the colour of the furniture. We must do that and we must seize that opportunity. The Government must make sure that those who do that are encouraged to do it.
When it comes to the other facets of sport, my noble friend in sport—to nick an expression coined, I think, by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan—the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, said that certain Games will occasionally push things over the edge to other places, such as disability rights. The 2012 village was reckoned to be the best designed for disability. That was because part of the process of preparing for the Games—I had a small part in this—was to make sure that the village was the best prepared ever. We got in early; we got the structure in; we talked about it; we engaged in it properly. The process of talking about such things early on comes back to the point that the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, was making: if you get in there, you actually have a chance of influencing. You cannot ever just say thank you, and think that it is done and move on; you have to engage constantly.
One of the other things—the elephant in the room, which is now trumpeting—is the Gulf states, the sovereign wealth fund and football. Guess what? We now have a Bill where this relationship is going to be discussed. I know the Government are doing their level best not to have this discussed, but it will be, because I am going to move amendments on it. We are going to have to look at how that relationship works. What is a fit and proper person? What is that relationship? If there are going to be barriers in place, where are they going to come in? How does that affect things?
Many football fans probably go into their own little darkened room and say, “My team must survive”. But they have also said that their team is going to be in a competitive league structure, which means that, in some alternative universe, Manchester United could be outside the league structure in six years, because you have relegation as well as promotion. If we have that, we surely should be looking at how the structure is maintained and at the people coming in.
If you are coming in from outside, maybe you should not be allowed to walk away. Maybe you should leave some of your wealth behind—there is a revelation. When football cannot organise its own house and calls government in, we will have a look at the whole structure again. If it is not the furniture this time, it is definitely the colour of the curtains. We are in there and we are taking part in this. I would hope that this House and the whole of Parliament will have a look at what is coming here.
Sport is too big a subject to be pushed off to the side; it affects too many lives. For the amateur sportsman who lives for his hour and a half on a Saturday or Sunday, it is an important part of their life and social structure. They are connected by some sort of invisible magic to the elite—I am not quite sure how it works, but it is certainly there. That is something we will have to talk about better in the next few years than we have before.
I hope that this Government will have a look at their own soft power strategy when it comes to sport. I hope that this Government will be supportive of the Commonwealth Games. We had a wonderful Commonwealth Games in Birmingham—done on the cheap, but it was done. It would appear that the Gulf states, America and China are not terribly interested in hosting the Commonwealth Games, but it is still a very old, multigame structure. Can we please have a look at that? When we had our last discussion on that, I remember finding myself in little confrontations with people from Birmingham, mainly on the Labour Benches, who asked: “How can we possibly milk it to save Birmingham?” I pointed out that you could not save Birmingham’s finances by milking the Commonwealth Games and that the Bill would not allow you to do it, but we still had a jolly good row.
Can we take these things seriously and look at them for the benefit they bring—the things they will give all of us? If we do not, we will end up with these horrible bitty examples. People say that it is sport and not politics, but clearly the two cannot be separated that easily. People say, “It’s nothing to do with me”, because it is only sport or politics or money, but they are all connected.
We have a series of opportunities coming up where we can start to square these circles. The first will be the football regulation Bill, where we will look at sovereign wealth funds and their relationship to football, and fit and proper persons. I hope we can start to have a slightly more nuanced, and indeed adult, discussion of these problems, because sports, sportswashing and the presentation of sport matters to society at a quite fundamental level. If we pretend that it does not, or are individually not interested, we are ignoring our reality. Sport is an integral part of our society, and we should treat it as such. I hope that that is one message we can take from this debate.
Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, is to be heartily congratulated this afternoon on bringing forward this topic for debate. I am not sure what hotline he has to the heart of government, but his foresight in choosing this issue for this week—the week in which the Government plucked up the courage to publish their football regulation Bill—is to be admired. Like me, he sees the opportunity with the football regulation Bill to make a stand on sportswashing—the noble Lord, Lord Addington, has advertised the point well—and to try to set a high bar, not just nationally but internationally.
This afternoon’s debate has been fascinating, with a broad range of views, from the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, through to the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, with his nuanced take on how best to tackle sportswashing and achieve change and improvements in human rights. The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, largely echoed his take on how we make more inclusive international events such as the Olympics and the Paralympics. I personally found her take on politics in sport not just realistic but insightful and fascinating. I was particularly drawn to, and enjoyed, the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Hayward; they were not just thoughtful and illuminating but very revealing too. I had not included any points in my comments about sponsorship, as noble Lords will hear, but that was a well-made argument, and one that we should reflect more on when we look at some of the issues associated with sportswashing in the future.
As pretty much all noble Lord have said, sportswashing is nothing new. As long as there have been international competitions between competing nations, an element of sportswashing has always been present. The fascist states of Italy and Germany made ruthless use of sporting events, notably football and the Olympics, to project themselves to the wider world. Of course, the 1936 Berlin Olympics was the most obvious and probably the largest example. I particularly enjoyed the fulsome and witty explanation of all of that from the noble Lord, Lord Thomas. In more recent decades, the practice has become more subtle—but arguably not that much more subtle.
What do we mean by the term “sportswashing”? The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, gave his definition and academics have tried to define the idea. Jonathan Grix perhaps nailed it when he wrote that it had become
“a short-hand way of criticising (usually) non-democratic regimes or large corporations for using investment in world-renowned athletes, sports clubs, and sports events to detract from illiberal, non-democratic, and/or exploitative practices in their home countries or businesses”.
As the House of Lord’s Library note says, the term has been applied to hosting large events such as the Olympics and Paralympics or the World Cup, setting up new facilities, sports infrastructure and domestic competitions, investment in teams and leagues internationally, usually through sovereign wealth funds, the sponsorship of teams or tournaments by state-associated bodies such as tourism departments and national airlines and, of course and in particular, engaging well-known international sportspeople in ambassadorial roles for new leagues and bodies.
Many commentators have observed that states getting involved in support, direct sponsorship and other forms of sports-related alignment provides endless opportunities for soft power and reputational enhancement. The opportunities for promoting a positive image of the states themselves and increasing their status and credibility are limitless. From Berlin in 1936 to Beijing in 2008, via the FIFA World Cup in Russia in 2018, the pattern is the same.
In recent years, more attention has, as we have heard, focused on the Gulf states. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, made a good job of displaying exactly how Bahrain is operated, but also Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar and Oman. The expansion of Formula 1 is an interesting case study in this regard. The Bahrain grand prix has been running for two decades and has been joined on the calendar by races in Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
A BBC estimate suggests that Saudi Arabia has invested some £5 billion in sport since 2021. As well as F1, there have been major investments in events such as boxing, the LIV golf series, the ATP tennis championships and the America’s Cup regatta. In recent times, we have seen the takeover of Newcastle United, and the state’s interest in football seems more to be more widespread, with reports that the country is seeking the rights to the 2034 FIFA World Cup and, interestingly, the 2035 FIFA Women’s World Cup. In the case of the latter, it is worth noting that the growth of the women’s game in Saudi Arabia is both very recent and limited by international comparison.
Of course, elite sport can contribute to economic growth. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman argued in September last year:
“If sportswashing increases my GDP by 1% then I will continue doing sportswashing”.
It could not be more blatant than that. The Sports Minister of Saudi Arabia, Prince Abdulaziz bin Turki al Saud, explained to the BBC that accusations of sportswashing were “shallow”. On human rights, he said:
“Any country has room for improvement, no one’s perfect”.
He added that
“these events help us reform to a better future for everyone”.
There is little doubt that the Saudi states sees being a player across many different sports, in particular football, as a form of soft power. We in this Chamber often talk about the notion of soft power and the influence that UK institutions can wield through the BBC, the British Council and our aid budget, but these are by comparison benign interventions designed to promote liberal and democratic values. They are not designed primarily to advance solely economic interests or to provide cover for human rights abuses or unregulated workplace practices such as those reported widely during the construction of football stadia for the Qatar World Cup. In that context, yesterday’s report in the Guardian about emerging evidence of similar construction-related deaths in Saudi is very worrying indeed and I think should be reflected in action from FIFA as football’s governing body.
What should be the approach of government to states that use the power of sport to impact upon reputation, international standing, trade and much more? First, we should encourage greater transparency. For example, FIFA should be more open in its dealings with any nation seeking to host a future World Cup. This means that there can be no allegations of corruption surrounding the awarding process, and the adoption of a zero-tolerance approach towards human rights abuse claims. The bidding process should not be used to excuse poor human rights records. For example, if Saudi Arabia is to play host, the Saudi Sports Minister should be held to his words about events being a driver towards genuine and verifiable reform on human rights and much else.
Secondly, we must make it plain internationally that sport—and, in particular, football in this instance—is sport for all. Labour has long believed in sport for all. Our vision is of sports being not just of interest at elite levels but inclusive and participative, so that we can all play our part, and play a role—this, after all, was the motif for the London Olympics of 2012. As we have seen, for many countries, from Afghanistan to the Gulf states, this is an issue. So we should be using our version of soft power to influence Governments who seek to use their wealth to promote strategic investments in sport for less altruistic purposes.
A Labour Government would seek to use their influence to promote human rights and tackle abuses such as those experienced by construction workers in Qatar. Equally, we would wish that influence to stop the abuse of LGBT+ fans and the discrimination that women suffer. In football, we take the view that FIFA should put its house in order. Ahead of the 2034 World Cup, the next 10 years should be used constructively to tackle the issues that emerged during the Qatar event. FIFA should show some leadership and work with its partners to bring change.
In this context, the welcome publication—finally—of the Government’s Football Governance Bill could be used constructively to set a high bar in football regulation that shows what can be done to tackle a myriad of regulatory issues, starting with financial fair play and fairer competition. One important objective of the moves towards football regulation was to give fans a bigger say in the governance of football and put them very much at the heart of the game. We should look to extrapolate that example elsewhere, and use that power to change attitudes nationally and internationally.
I am looking forward to the Minister’s response to this highly significant and well-timed debate. Will the Minister use his time to say a little about how His Majesty’s Government see the regulation of our nation’s number one obsession, football, as a way forward to improve not just governance but other related matters in the culture of the game? Can he also set out the Government’s approach to ensuring higher standards around human rights, LGBT+ rights and workers’ rights in the context of future World Cup bids, and international sports events more generally? Perhaps he could be tempted to reference any discussions that he and other Ministers have had with FIFA and other international sporting bodies to ensure that there are far higher standards for countries bidding to host the World Cup and other similar international events.
This has been a valuable debate, and one that, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Addington, said, will probably prefigure similar debates during the passage of the football regulation Bill in the future. I have greatly enjoyed, and been fascinated by, the compelling, wide and varied contributions.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay) (Con)
My Lords, I too have greatly enjoyed this excellent debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for securing it and setting it out in the way that he did. It has taken in a great sweep of history: the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin and the 1980 Games in Moscow featured prominently, of course, but the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, took us back to Mount Olympus and even greater historical roots.
It was a debate where there was genuine disagreement on points of principle, set out eloquently in the opening speech by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and the powerful contributions from my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lord Hayward, the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, and I thank them for that. We have seen competing ideas playing out in this arena in a great reflection of the very best value of sporting events, and it was good to have that reflection. It is important to touch on the vital issue of human rights, which are of course of the utmost importance. We must ensure that the Government and our sporting bodies work together as one on this.
Beyond the game played on a pitch, field or track, sport is a way for people of all nations to display pride in their country and to show off the very best of their nation on the world stage. That is something that the nations of the UK do, just as countries around the world do. We are blessed with an abundance of sporting assets in this country, such as the Premier League, our rugby and cricket teams, and a large number of internationally renowned sports men and women, including our wonderful Olympic and Paralympic athletes who are due to compete on the global stage once again in Paris this summer, and I am sure noble Lords will want to join me in wishing them the best as they do so.
The UK has a proud record of hosting major sporting events. Since the London 2012 Olympics, which my noble friend Lord Moynihan, the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, and others were instrumental in, we have hosted some of the biggest sporting events in the world, included the Tour de France in 2014, the Rugby World Cup in 2015, the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham in 2022, the Rugby League World Cup in 2021 and the UEFA Women’s Euros in 2022. We are set to continue our stellar hosting reputation with the Women’s Rugby World Cup next year, not to mention the UK and Ireland securing the men’s UEFA European Championships 2028. Every year we host a number of the world’s biggest annual sporting events, including Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix at Silverstone—which I was delighted to see will remain the home of the British Grand Prix for at least another 10 years thanks to the signing of a 10-year deal to host it all the way through to 2034.
As noble Lords reflected in their contributions, major sporting events are not just for the fans and the people who love watching live sports; they have a much wider impact, one that is felt around this country and around the globe. They help to bring pride and touch the lives of many people in meaningful ways. They inspire people to get active and to push themselves. It is not just our teams, our leagues and our professional athletes that make their mark globally; major sporting events can be used as a way to catalyse investment in facilities to ensure that anyone who wants to take part in sport is able to do so. We have seen that with the Government’s direct investment of over £325 million in improving grass-roots facilities across the UK, as well as the Lionesses Futures Fund, which provides £30 million for 30 state-of-the-art facilities to increase access for women and girls, as well as to celebrate the successes of the Lionesses.
Major sporting events are an excellent way to demonstrate to the world the best that this country has to offer: our infrastructure, our expertise, our culture, and of course our people. Sport shows the very best of humanity and is important in bringing countries together, particularly in difficult circumstances or in times of conflict or uncertainty. It allows us to build bonds with other nations through friendly competition and by sharing a common human experience. The effects of such great sporting moments ripple beyond our athletes and those who are directly involved in putting on these events by allowing millions of people across the globe to share and learn about each other’s cultures and values.
We continue to engage on an international level and directly with other nations about the importance of those values, but we recognise that, crucially, sport is autonomous. Participation in international sporting events is a matter for relevant international sports federations and the national representatives to them. The UK’s sports bodies operate independently of government and, indeed, enshrine that political freedom in their rules and regulations. It is not for the Government to direct or mandate with whom our sports bodies must or must not engage.
On human rights, however, the UK believes that strong democratic institutions and accountable Governments who uphold human rights and the rule of law are key, fundamental building blocks for secure and prosperous societies. Protecting a stable and open international order that safeguards human rights is the cornerstone of UK foreign policy. Globally, our work on human rights is tailored and responsive to the context of individual countries, but, through sustained engagement, often in collaboration and partnership with others, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office works to exert influence over the long term to achieve impact.
In his opening speech, the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, asked me a number of questions, which I will address now. He asked, first, whether the Government have a working definition of “sportswashing”. The short answer is that we do not. The UK believes that strong, democratic institutions and accountable Governments who uphold human rights and the rule of law are fundamental building blocks for secure and prosperous societies, as I said, and has that tailored approach, responsive to each country’s context. We do not seek to define a disparate group of actors and their aims, and we do not consider the question of human rights to be a sports-specific issue, in the same way that it is not a culture-specific issue. We look at it, in and of itself, through many lenses, including sport.
The noble Lord asked particularly about Bahrain, a country with which the UK provides technical assistance for ongoing reform, supporting progress in a number of human rights areas, including alternative sentencing, juvenile justice laws and the development of oversight bodies. The progress that we have seen from that work was reflected in the recent decision to remove Bahrain as a human rights priority country by the Foreign Office. We believe that engagement and support for Bahraini-led reform has delivered, and will continue to deliver, more than disengaging would.
The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, understandably raised the case of Sayed Hashim, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. The Foreign Office is aware of Sayed Hashim’s detention and we encourage the Government of Bahrain to meet all of their human rights commitments. We also encourage those with specific concerns to raise them directly with the appropriate Bahraini oversight body. I know that the noble Lord campaigns diligently on this and other cases in relation to Bahrain.
The noble Lord also asked about the new independent football regulator. I look forward to the debates we will have on that Bill when it comes to your Lordships’ House—it is a Bill of two Houses—but we have had a very useful anticipation of some of the issues that we will rightly look at when it is here for your Lordships’ scrutiny. On whether the new independent regulator would seek to prevent takeovers or look at questions of ownership on the basis of foreign policy or human rights concerns, or the roles of foreign Governments, the tests for the new regulator have been designed to reduce the risk of unsuitable custodians of teams, without deterring investment.
We do not believe that the new independent regulator should get involved in issues of foreign policy; that is rightly a matter for the Government, accountable to Parliament as they are. In fact, the new independent regulator will have a statutory duty to have regard to the Government’s foreign and trade policy objectives, so that it can follow the things that Parliament has scrutinised and the Government have set out.
We do not think it would be appropriate for a football regulator to make unilateral assessments of human rights concerns. If an owner or officer is sanctioned in accordance with the Global Human Rights Sanctions Regulations, which the Government brought forward and were approved in 2020, they would most likely be prohibited from being a club owner or director. The regulator’s primary focus is the financial sustainability of clubs and the industry, in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, alluded to. Clubs have many ownership types, including state ownership or owners who may be connected to foreign Governments—but I look forward to debating this more in our consideration of the Bill.
Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, asked about His Majesty’s ambassador to Bahrain and the grand prix there—a point that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, also followed up. The ambassador and his colleagues—and, indeed, colleagues at the Foreign Office here in London—regularly engage with Bahrain on human rights issues. That includes attending sporting events such as the grand prix; His Majesty’s ambassadors around the world attend a number of sporting events hosted in countries. The events are an opportunity for them to have conversations and raise issues, as they do.
We are proud that Formula 1 is headquartered in London, with its technical operations based in Kent. We are proud that seven of the 10 Formula 1 teams are based in the UK. Currently, over 6,000 people are employed directly through the sport in the UK, with over 4,500 suppliers. Formula 1 itself has made it clear that human rights are mentioned in the contracts it signs and that any adverse human rights issues arising from its events will not be tolerated—that includes media, freedom of speech and peaceful and lawful protest at events. But, whatever the sport, we are clear that we expect all our businesses to comply with all applicable laws to identify and prevent human rights risks and to behave in line with the guiding principles on business and human rights, including in their management of supply chains here and overseas.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
Before we get away from the video, will the Minister defend the words that the UK ambassador said in it?
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
I have not seen the video, and I do not want to defend words I have not heard. I have set out how His Majesty’s ambassador and all Crown servants overseas follow the policies of His Majesty’s Government and are rightly held to account for what they say publicly—but my colleagues at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office are perhaps better placed to discuss that.
It is important that we continue to have direct conversations on human rights and other important matters. The UK continues to show global leadership in encouraging all states to uphold international rights obligations and to ensure that those who violate human rights are held to account. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, mentioned the World Cup in Qatar, where I hope he saw that my right honourable friend Stuart Andrew—the Minister for Sport and the Minister for Equality—made the point directly by wearing the OneLove rainbow armband when he attended. By doing so, he showed that we do not shy away from these conversations and gestures. Following the tournament, we continue to engage with Qatar, which has moved forward on labour rights, as noted by noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who pointed to the independent monitoring done by the International Labour Organization.
The benefits of inward investment are key in international sport. In the last decade, there has been an unprecedented level of interest and a flow of private capital investment into the sports sector globally, particularly from international institutional investors. Like others, I think my noble friend Lord Hayward did us a great service in this debate by touching on the importance of sponsors. The Government have consistently supported the UN guiding principles on business and human rights, which are widely regarded as the authoritative international framework to steer practical action by both Governments and businesses across the world in this important area.
The last decade has seen growth in a number of areas across sport, with significant levels of new and innovative investment, particularly in women’s sport. The Government have outlined the important role of inward investment in our sports sector through their recently published sports strategy, which works to encourage investment in our sport system in a sustainable manner. We will work across government departments and with external partners to highlight best practice and opportunities for inward investment in our domestic sport, including women’s sport.
In July, the Government hosted the inaugural investment in sport symposium, bringing people from the sector together with investors and other associated organisations to discuss the opportunities that are available. We have also launched a new women’s sport investment accelerator pilot scheme, which brings UK-based women’s sports rights holders who are seeking investment together with industry experts and investors. We believe there are further opportunities within the sector, in the form of viable investment propositions for the right investors who are committed to the long-term growth and health of the sport.
I am grateful to the noble Lord for what has been a timely debate and a chance to look ahead to the debates we will have on the independent football regulator, but also a powerful opportunity to remind us of the importance of how the Government engage with countries around the world through sport and in other ways, to the benefit of the UK, our sportsmen and sportswomen, and the millions of people across the country who enjoy sport in all its forms.
I was struck by what the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said. There is a powerful lesson in the example of Lloyd George, whose comments about the impression he formed at the 1936 Olympic Games are difficult to hear, not just for the noble Lord and his colleagues on the Liberal Benches but for us all. But I am glad that, as we look back on those Olympics, it is the figure of Jesse Owens, with his impressive four gold medals, that looms larger in the historical imagination, underlining the importance of seizing the opportunity of sporting events to advance important conversations on matters of human rights and politics, which, as noble Lords have rightly said, are often intertwined.
Lord Scriven (LD)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in what can only be described as a rich and informative debate underpinned by some values of sport—a respectful debate that brings people together regardless of differences of views and where we start. That was very important.
It was interesting that we started to go down the cul-de-sac of boycotts and bans. That was not the aim of this debate; I specifically did not use the terms in my opening remarks. The thrust of the debate I wanted, and most people got on to, was not just the role of the athletes and the events but the roles of the sporting management bodies and what happens when they do not take on those roles, and how the Government therefore deal with the issues we have spoken about today, such as human rights abuses.
I am not going to go through all noble Lords’ speeches, but the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, raised a really important issue to do with sponsorship. Interestingly, in F1, because of the lack of action by the sporting body even to engage, those of us who are concerned are looking at targeting Rolex, Heineken, DHL and Qatar Airways among other sponsors, because they have a moral duty, and the consumers of those products need to be aware of what they are contributing to.
The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, said that sport cannot change the world. I think we all agree with that: sport cannot change the world, and there is a broader, more complex issue that sport has to engage with. But sports bodies can change their parts of the world and do things around human rights abuses in their contractual arrangements, as the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, said.
I was slightly disappointed with the Minister. I am not going to give him a hard time on human rights in Bahrain. We could say we were shadow-boxing; I realise that he is not from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. But some of the answers were disappointing with regards to the lack of action the Government are prepared to take when sporting bodies based in the UK are not meeting their international obligations. It does not fit together that the Government say they are not going to get involved in foreign entities owning sporting bodies in the UK when only a couple of days ago they agreed to do exactly the same with the press. I think there is an issue about why these foreign entities want to use sporting bodies in the UK. They are not investing millions of pounds in these bodies purely for the sake of sport—they understand what it brings to their countries’ reputations.
This has been a historic debate, because it is the first time that the UK Parliament has ever debated the concept of, and phrase, “sportswashing”—so we have taken part in an historic as well as an informative and rich debate. To come back to the football issue and the independent regulator, I think that we are getting to the point where amendments will be put with regard to foreign state ownership of clubs, if that is not being done for the right reason.
I will finish with the words of somebody who has been part of abuse in a country and who has tried to stand up for human rights when one of these sportswashing events was held. They said, “These events come and they go, and our country is seen in a light that the regime wants the rest of the world to see us. But our plight is ignored or dismissed by the sporting bodies as they get richer. Yet once they have gone, or sometimes once they are here, doing their sport, our freedoms don’t change and our rights can be crushed. Something isn’t working and something has to change.”
I hope that this debate has said that something has to change, and I look forward to keeping the pressure on the Government, along with other noble Lords, to make sure that bodies or clubs in this country are better regulated and that, if they do not carry out these issues and people continue having issues like this, further action will be taken.