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Business Before Questions
Oral Answers to Questions
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)
Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Graham Stuart)
Mr Speaker, before I begin, I am delighted to announce the appointment of Mark Slaughter as the Department for International Trade’s new director general for investment. Mark took up his new role this month and will lead the Department’s work on inward and outward investment.
The Department for International Trade provides support to companies in Wales and the rest of the UK through, for example, the GREAT campaign, high value campaigns, the Tradeshow Access Programme and the financial support to exporters offered by UK Export Finance.
Ian C. Lucas
Wrexham pharmaceutical companies, such as Wockhardt and Ipsen Biopharm, export worldwide. Does the Minister agree that it is essential to preserve regulatory alignment to allow them to continue to export and develop in new markets?
Graham Stuart
I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who is a great champion of his local exporting businesses. We need the right arrangements going forward to support the strong export growth we have seen. He will note that, since 2010, export growth for Wales has gone up by 82%.
Paula Sherriff
What direct support is being given to businesses that want to export overseas and, crucially, how is it being signposted?
Graham Stuart
The hon. Lady is right to mention the importance of ensuring that British companies know support is in place. In DIT, we have for the first time in our history a Department of State whose only job is to support international economic exports, investment and trade policy. The GREAT campaign has been very significant in promoting that and we have trade advisers throughout the country. Indeed, in Yorkshire and Humber, DIT has 33 mobile and desk-based international trade advisers, who are there explicitly to support local business and to make sure they know what we have on offer.
Mr Sweeney
For the food and drink producers located in my constituency, such as the world famous Tennents brewery and Morrison Bowmore whisky distillery, international trade is an integral part of their business. Can the Minister tell us what his Department is doing to work with Scottish Development International to better promote Scottish businesses, such as the ones I have mentioned, overseas?
Graham Stuart
The hon. Gentleman is right and, along with many of his colleagues, he is a great champion of local businesses. That is why it was particularly disappointing that we saw so many of his colleagues shaking their heads in disbelief when they heard the shadow Secretary of State the other day refusing to support the EU-Canada trade deal and refusing to support the EU-Japan trade deal. He will recall that one of his colleagues said that if the Labour party is not prepared to support a deal with Trudeau’s Canada, who on earth would it support a deal with.
Mr Mark Prisk (Hertford and Stortford) (Con)
Although it is very welcome to see a rise in exports, Ministers know they are still coming from a relatively small proportion of British businesses. I urge him to challenge business membership bodies to ensure they put exporting at the heart of their work. We need a culture change. They have a role to play.
Graham Stuart
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for all the work he does in supporting international trade. He is absolutely right. We work closely in partnership with, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State meets regularly, representative business organisations because we need to change the culture. Our assessment is that there are more British companies that could export and do not, than there are who can and do. The opportunity is there. The very welcome growth in exports over recent years is to be applauded, but there is so much more we can do by working in partnership not only with representative business organisations, but with banks.
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)
What impact will there be on UK firms exporting around the world if the Trade Bill is not implemented before we leave the EU?
Graham Stuart
Of course, the Trade Bill is fundamental to the continuity of existing EU trade deals. It puts in place the framework to allow us to move them over from the EU to the UK. Labour failed earlier this week to support jobs, and it has repeatedly voted against the very Bill that would allow us to ensure continuation of trade.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Our exports will be more likely to prosper if reciprocal trade is not met with a common external tariff, will they not?
Graham Stuart
What my right hon. Friend is absolutely right about is that there will be real opportunities for the UK when it leaves the EU. The appetite throughout the world is first for continuity, but among so many of our existing trade partners there is also a real desire to deepen that relationship and thus support British exports in a way that, sadly, the shadow Secretary of State seems signally not to do.
Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)
It is not enough, though, simply to promote exports and global trade. They need to be facilitated, which is likely to require new trade deals with our major trading partners, such as the United States. That, however, is not without its risks. When the Minister and the Secretary of State are going about their business promoting trade and starting early discussions about a trade deal, will they make it clear from the outset that our NHS, our public services, our food hygiene rules and important geographic indicators are off limits and out of bounds?
Graham Stuart
I am happy to give those assurances, but earlier this week we saw the Scottish National party—the hon. Gentleman’s party, under his leadership in this area—vote against a deal that fully supports the continuity of existing protections. It is interesting that the Scotch Whisky Association and all the thousands who work in the Scotch whisky business strongly support that deal, whereas the SNP opposed it.
Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)
In May it was reported that the Department was to axe hundreds of jobs in trade promotion—up to 10% of the workforce. The Treasury has since hinted that additional funding is available to safeguard such jobs, but we have heard that the cuts are still happening. Surely the Secretary of State agrees that axing officials whose job is to promote British exports is not the best way to build a “global Britain”. Will he therefore confirm that his Department has not, and will not, cut those jobs?
Graham Stuart
The truth is that the Department is growing. It is less than two years old and it is building its capacity. Today I announced the appointment of a new director general for investment, we recently announced the appointment of a director general for exports, and, of course, we are soon to complete the appointments of eight HM trade commissioners around the world, who will deploy our resources to best effect.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
The Minister for Trade Policy (George Hollingbery)
Freeing up trade is a proven driver of prosperity for developing countries. As we leave the EU, our priority will be to seek to deliver continuity in our trading arrangements, including continuity for developing countries.
Iain Stewart
Let me first warmly welcome my hon. Friend to the Dispatch Box.
The EU acts as a protectionist bloc against the trading interests of developing economies. Can my hon. Friend assure me that, once we leave the EU, arranging trade deals with developing economies will be a central part of our post-Brexit arrangements?
George Hollingbery
I certainly can. The Department’s White Paper “Preparing for our future trade policy” sets out the scale of the Government’s desire to help developing countries to break down the barriers to trade, and we will give them the tools with which to trade their way out of poverty.
Mr Speaker
I am sorry that I did not spot the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner), but if he wants to shoehorn his question—
Mr Speaker
I most certainly do not look for favourites, but I am always happy to hear from the hon. Gentleman, and if he wants to speak now, he can.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman can always shoehorn in his concern on any question, and the Chair is accommodating of him. I hope that his mood will improve as the day proceeds.
Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
An important issue connected with trade deals is actually a Home Office matter, I refer to the issue of visas. Whether the trade deals are with developing countries or with Australia and New Zealand, the big thing that they talk about is not two-year visas but five-year visas. What work is the Minister doing with the Home Office to bring some sense into this area? Incidentally, that is also needed on the west coast of Scotland in relation to fishing.
George Hollingbery
The hon. Gentleman will know very well that mode 4 is applied in many circumstances, and that it was part of the Japan-EU free trade deal. Our conversations with the Home Office are ongoing, but it will always be a matter of national policy that we will control our own immigration system. Despite what is said in trade deals, that is protected.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Will the Minister confirm that, whatever agreement is or is not reached with the European Union, after Brexit this country will continue to see increased trade in goods and services with the European Union, developing countries, and other countries around the world?
George Hollingbery
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Clearly, the whole purpose of our leaving the European Union, or one of the plain purposes, is to increase sovereignty and to conduct our own trade deals. We are very keen to do a good deal with Europe—to see frictionless borders and to keep trade going on that front—and indeed to seek wide and ambitious free trade deals with others.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
What will the new Trade Minister do to ensure that any such trade deals with developing countries protect, promote and enhance workers’ rights, environmental protection and consumer rights, rather than engaging in a race to the bottom?
George Hollingbery
It is a feature of the free trade deal that is currently being signed by the European Union, and indeed the commitment of this Government, that chapters will be included in all those agreements that will protect exactly the elements that the hon. Lady identifies. They are in the current arrangements that we voted in favour of earlier this week and will be in future trade deals.
Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that the best way of getting countries out of poverty is by trade, and that that is under threat from protectionism? Does he further agree that how we vote in this House, and the measures we support in the House on extending trade, matter?
George Hollingbery
That absolutely matters; it matters fundamentally. Trade is one of the greatest promoters of prosperity on the planet. It supports more poor people into reasonable states of living across the world than almost any other policy. The Opposition voted against such a free trade deal last week—in fact, against two of them. All that can do in the long run is reduce the amount of free trade around the world.
Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)
For the last 10 to 15 minutes, Ministers at that Dispatch Box have been attacking us for voting on principle against a trade agreement the other day. I want to know how many trade deals the Government have turned down with Barnier and the rest of them across in Europe in the last 12 months. Answer!
George Hollingbery
I am very sorry to say, Mr Speaker, that I am not entirely sure that I understand the question, but I would like to correct one element of something I just said. Of course, the Opposition did not vote against both trade deals—they abstained on the Japan trade deal. I am afraid that I simply do not understand the question. All I know is that the trade deals that were voted on and passed by the House this week had elements that contained many of the protections that the Opposition have said that they want. There are chapters on labour rights and environmental standards, and there is protection for our public services, particularly the national health service, which, as I told the House on Tuesday, is protected from challenge by those agreements.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
What advice does the Minister have for small and medium-sized enterprises that want to do business both inside the EU and outside it, post 29 March next year, in terms of their geographic location? Does he think it would be a good idea for businesses to be based in Northern Ireland, where they can have the best of both worlds?
George Hollingbery
A characteristic of any trade deal that we wish to do with the EU will obviously be to look at the interests of small businesses, which are the lifeblood of our economy. The EU-Japan trade deal that we voted for in the House on Tuesday specifically opened up the markets of Japan to smaller and medium-sized producers in the car manufacturing sector. I hope that those sorts of measures will be reflected in any deal that we do with the EU.
Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade (Dr Liam Fox)
If I may, I would like to begin by paying tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Greg Hands) for all the work that he did as our Minister of State and for helping to set up the Department. He is one of the very best Ministers that I have had the honour to work with in my whole time in this House.
Since April 2017, the Department for International Trade has actively supported UK companies, with over 50 outward direct investment deals in over 20 countries. With our help, companies from all over the UK have invested overseas in many sectors, including advanced manufacturing, infrastructure and energy.
Maria Caulfield
Sussex sparkling wine is beating French champagne in Parisian wine-tasting challenges. In my constituency we have English sparkling wine producers such as Rathfinny, Ridgeview and Breaky Bottom. What steps is the Department taking to help this industry to invest and export overseas?
Dr Fox
I know that my hon. Friend is a great champion of English wines in her constituency. In fact, Aldwick Court in my own constituency makes a very fine range of wines, Mr Speaker—I will attempt to get you a bottle to prove the point. We work closely with leading industry associations and producers to help to support English wine exports. A recent example of this was the festival of innovation in March in Hong Kong. Our team in-market arranged a bespoke programme of briefings and a high-profile tasting session to introduce a delegation of UK wine and spirit producers to potential buyers from around the world, very successfully.
Jim Shannon
The Secretary of State may not be aware of the input of a Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Minister on this matter, but Lakeland Dairies in my constituency is attempting to secure Chinese business but is having some difficulty due to red tape. What support is available to help businesses across the language and cultural divide, and to gain results that benefit us all and in particular Lakeland Dairies in my constituency?
Dr Fox
As the hon. Gentleman knows, there have been a number of questions about the ease of doing business in China and market access has been one of the questions raised. A new trade commissioner has been appointed, Richard Burn, in China, and our team will work continually with the Chinese Government to try to remove some of the barriers. If companies in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency face specific problems, I will be delighted to meet him to try to resolve them.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Last month, the Department’s roadshow that encourages small businesses to invest overseas and export visited Immingham in my constituency, and it was greatly valued by local businesses. Does the Department plan to continue and expand that roadshow?
Dr Fox
Of course, we will continue to do that; it is a very successful programme. But perhaps more usefully we can help to get small businesses the finance they require to get into the exporting business. Last year, in a change from the previous pattern, 78% of all the UK export finance agreements were done with small and medium-sized enterprises in this country.
Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)
Has the Secretary of State looked at the impact of tariffs on British investments overseas?
Dr Fox
Tariffs in general are one of the areas we want to be able to look at when we leave the European Union. Of course the setting of tariffs is a legal power that we do not yet have. To be able to take full advantage of alternatives—reductions in tariffs, for example—this House will have to pass the customs Bill, which is coming back shortly. I hope that we can count on the hon. Gentleman’s support on that.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Our proceedings would be incomplete and underperforming without a question from Mr Barry Sheerman.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
May I ask the Secretary of State if he is not being a little complacent about the role of China in our manufacturing and other sectors? Does he realise that, when we encourage companies to export, some of the companies, like Syngenta in my constituency, are wholly owned by ChemChina and wholly owned subsidiaries of the communist Government in China? There is a greater number of British companies owned by the Chinese. Does that alter the sort of conversation he has with them?
Dr Fox
We believe in an open, liberal, global economy and, if we want to own companies overseas, countries overseas have to be able to own companies in this country. That is part of a liberal trading system, but that system requires a proper system of rules. That is why the World Trade Organisation needs to be strengthened and in some areas needs to be reformed, to ensure we have a global trading system that is fair and fit for all.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
The Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade (Dr Liam Fox)
The Government’s transport investment strategy seeks to make Britain a more attractive place to trade and invest by improving the capacity and connectivity of Britain’s transport infrastructure. I know that, in my right hon. Friend’s own county, which has London Gateway, Tilbury and Harwich, she is a staunch campaigner for improved infrastructure and for more international trade and investment.
Priti Patel
To thrive as a global beacon for free trade, Britain has to have world-class infrastructure, so will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State work across Government to bring in road and rail upgrades, but also the introduction of free ports and enterprise zones in order to turbocharge business, trade and investment opportunities post Brexit?
Dr Fox
Well-connected transport infrastructure is key to our trading capability. When it comes to free ports, as my right hon. Friend knows, I am personally very well-disposed towards the concept. It is one area where we can take potential advantage when we have the freedom to do so once we have left the European Union.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
If he has not already done so, will the Secretary of State raise the potential merits of Scottish inclusion in the HS2 project with the Secretary of State for Transport?
Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade (Dr Liam Fox)
While we sympathise with US concerns regarding transparency and the overproduction of steel, we continue to argue that tariffs applied under section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act are not an appropriate solution for dealing with these issues. We will continue to seek a constructive, permanent resolution with the United States to avoid further escalation, which would only harm businesses, jobs and consumers in the United Kingdom and the United States.
Dr Fox
Far from turning our back on any trading partners, we are seeking a full, transparent, comprehensive and liberal trading agreement with the European Union, and we will seek others. When it comes to protecting British industries, we can do that only when we have a trade remedies authority in place, and I have to remind the hon. Gentleman that he and his party voted against the Trade Bill, which establishes that authority.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State’s reluctance to support EU countermeasures to combat Trump’s trade war, and the Government’s opposition to every amendment that we proposed to the Trade Bill and the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, speak volumes about his Government’s true intentions. When will he give the trade remedies authority the board members it will need if it is to stand up for UK businesses and consumers? And when will he put an end to the impression that the UK’s Secretary of State would rather back Donald Trump’s policy of America first?
Dr Fox
That question was wrong on so many issues that I do not know where to start. Rather than being against countermeasures, the United Kingdom supported the European Union—as I have done several times in this House—in saying that we believed that what the United States did was incompatible with WTO law and that we were therefore against it. And it is the height of cheek to demand that the Government should put members on a board that the Labour party tried to prevent us from establishing in the first place.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
The Minister for Trade Policy (George Hollingbery)
I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that Parliament will have a critical role to play in scrutinising the UK’s future trade deals. We will bring forward proposals in due course.
Gavin Newlands
The Trade Bill in its original form grants Ministers discretionary powers that undermine Parliament’s right of scrutiny. There is no guarantee that agreements will be transposed as originally agreed by the EU, particularly in respect of quotas and tariffs. Given the oft-repeated mantra of taking back control, how can the Government justify not giving Parliament a say on these arrangements?
George Hollingbery
I know that the hon. Gentleman and others have tabled amendments to the Trade Bill. The details of our proposals on scrutiny will come forward in due course. The Government are committed to building a transparent and inclusive trade policy that is balanced against the need to ensure the confidentiality of negotiations. Any proposal that the Government bring forward will be on top of those mechanisms that are already at the disposal of Parliament. We will be consulting widely with the regions, and many of the concerns that the hon. Gentleman is articulating will be discussed in the regions of England and in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Work has already commenced on talking some of these issues through with the devolved authorities.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade (Dr Liam Fox)
My Department is responsible for foreign and outward direct investment, for establishing an independent trade policy and for export promotion. I am delighted today to announce the appointment of Natalie Black, Emma-Wade Smith and Simon Penney as our new Trade Commissioners for Asia Pacific, Africa and the middle east respectively. May I also thank my departing senior private secretary, George Thomson? We do not thank our excellent civil servants nearly enough for the job that they do.
Sir Desmond Swayne
Will the Secretary of State adopt the trade policy of Her Majesty’s Opposition?
Dr Fox
Inasmuch as I am able to discern what it is, which the events of this week make extremely difficult, the answer would have to be no—not least because, in regard to trade, the Opposition Front Bench has become a caricature of a loony left party in seeming to regard Justin Trudeau as a lackey of global corporatism.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
Ministers have made much today about the vote on the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement earlier this week. I am not quite sure what they do not understand about no deal with Canada being better than a bad deal; I thought that in other areas that was actually their party policy.
I want to focus on the damning report on carbon emissions released today by the Committee on Climate Change. The Conservative Committee Chair, Lord Deben, set out a stark demand:
“Act now, climate change will not pause while we consider our options.”
In response, will the Secretary of State explain why, on the latest figures, 99.4% of the support that UK Export Finance gives to the energy sector goes to fossil fuels? Will he tell the House what steps he is now taking to redress that imbalance, to promote and support renewable energy and respect the Equator Principles, which his Department signed up to, about sustainability in global trade last year?
Dr Fox
When I saw the hon. Gentleman stand up, my heart sank, given that this is only a 30-minute session.
We use UK Export Finance to promote a whole range of environmental and trading issues—in fact, I was in discussions with Equinor in Oslo last week about how we can use UK Export Finance to further the use and export of renewables.
Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)
Dr Fox
Like the whole House, I am sure, I am delighted that the Chinese Government have decided to lift the ban. I would like to praise my own officials in helping to do that, although it would not have been possible if the Prime Minister had not raised the issue at the highest level during her visit to China.
I will be seeing how we can take advantage of the lifting of the ban when I visit China in August for the Joint Economic and Trade Committee. I hope that in future we will be able to take delegations of UK beef producers, so that we can seek to make the most of an incredibly large potential market.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Graham Stuart)
The hon. Gentleman is right to emphasise the importance of access to talent, both in agriculture and elsewhere. We aim to ensure that that continues after Brexit so that the enormous growth—of 70% in exports from Scotland since 2010—can continue, including that of the produce that he mentioned.
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Dr Fox
The Department will provide an update on the grants available for trade show attendance in 2019-20 later this year in the context of our forthcoming export strategy. My hon. Friend has made an important point, but we must also ensure that the help we give is targeted to produce the best results, not the greatest number.
Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)
Dr Fox
I do find it strange that people think that foreign direct investment in the United Kingdom is a good thing, but that UK investment in other countries is a bad thing. Such investment is an essential part of an open trading system. It is also an important part of our development agenda. Investing and creating jobs overseas, as we saw with Jaguar Land Rover in South Africa, for example, is often one of the ways in which we can provide help for some of the poorest countries in the world.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
One of our great exports is Scotch whisky, much of which is produced in my Moray constituency. What is the Department doing to ensure the geographical indication protection on Scotch whisky is maintained within the EU when we leave?
Dr Fox
My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Government are seeking to ensure the continued GI protection of Scotch whisky in the EU after Brexit. Negotiations on geographical indications are continuing, and we anticipate that all current UK GIs will continue to be protected by the EU’s geographical indications scheme after Brexit.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
I call Matt Rodda. Where is the fella? Not here. Oh well, Mr Dakin is here.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
What initial assessment have the Government made of the impact of steel tariffs on the UK industry? What support are the Government giving UK steel to mitigate the impact until the tariffs are removed?
Dr Fox
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point, and I raised this with the EU Trade Commissioner last week. We are looking to see what impact there may be from any diversion and whether we need to introduce safeguards to protect UK steel producers. The earliest time that is likely to happen will be early to mid-July, and we are already seeing some movements that may justify it. As soon as we have the evidence to be able to justify such a decision, we will take it.
Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)
I read a fantastic Ministry of Defence document the other day that showed how the global centre of economic activity has shifted over time: 30 years ago, it was in the middle of the Atlantic; today, it is somewhere over Egypt; but in 2050 it will be somewhere around Vietnam. Is it not right, therefore, that our trade negotiations should accordingly shift south and east?
Dr Fox
One of our reasons for introducing Her Majesty’s Trade Commissioners is to ensure that the United Kingdom has the proper organisation to take advantage of those shifts in global trade. As I have previously said in the House, the International Monetary Fund has said that, in the next 10 to 15 years, 90% of growth in the global economy will be outside continental Europe. That is where the opportunities will be, and that is where we need to be, too.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
Can the Trade Secretary tell us whether he intends to send the Trade Bill for Royal Assent, even if the Scottish Parliament withholds its consent from relevant clauses?
Dr Fox
We believe that, because the Trade Bill will give continuity to British businesses, including in Scotland, and because not passing it would be detrimental to the interests of businesses, jobs and workers in Scotland, the Scottish Government will, in the end, see sense and support the Bill.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
The Minister for Women and Equalities (Penny Mordaunt)
The Government are working with business to encourage more women to consider following a science, technology, engineering and maths career path. We are doing this through a range of interventions, from major communication campaigns like the Year of Engineering to specific in-school activities like STEM ambassadors.
Andrew Rosindell
Will the Minister join me in commending the Frances Bardsley Academy for Girls in Romford? Retired engineers go into the school to tutor the young girls, particularly in the STEM industries. Does she agree that that is a great way to help young people, and particularly females, into this industry?
Penny Mordaunt
I pay tribute to that specific example and to my hon. Friend, who has championed such work in his constituency. Quite often we need to inform people not just about the career possibilities but about the pleasure those careers have given people. The STEM ambassadors programme, which is a network of 30,000 volunteers from a very wide range of backgrounds and employers, is vital to getting the message across.
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
Oldcastle Primary School in my constituency holds a STEM week in which it involves all our local businesses in a whole range of activities with its pupils. Last week Oldcastle and Trelales Primary Schools—the right hon. Lady is the most appropriate Minister to appreciate this—attended the RAF presentation team and saw the whole range of STEM activities that are available in the armed forces. Does she agree that we also have an opportunity to highlight STEM by engaging our armed forces’ presentation teams?
Penny Mordaunt
I absolutely do, and I thank the hon. Lady for mentioning this during Armed Forces Week. There are fantastic career opportunities in not only the RAF, but other services. Those armed forces are more operationally capable when we have equal numbers of men and women serving.
Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Danielle Rowley (Midlothian) (Lab)
The Minister for Women (Victoria Atkins)
No girl or woman should be held back because of her gender or background. In March, this Government announced that Brook Young People would receive a grant of £1.5 million for its project in the UK “Let’s Talk. Period”. The project will support young women and girls by educating them on how to manage their menstruation and providing free sanitary products, if required.
Grahame Morris
Is it not outrageous that in 2018 period poverty exists at all? Is it not an indictment of this Government’s policies of austerity that schools such as South Hetton Primary School in my constituency are having to improvise and provide pant packs to ensure that students from low-income families never have to miss a school day for want of proper sanitary products?
Victoria Atkins
It was always a mystery to me why the Labour Government did not seize the opportunity to reduce the VAT rate on sanitary products to 5%, as the coalition Government did. The VAT charged on women’s sanitary products is the lowest possible amount that can be charged in order to comply with EU law. Some retailers have decided to pay the 5% VAT for their customers and have reduced prices accordingly. This is a matter for business, but the Government are committed to applying a zero rate of VAT on sanitary products by the earliest date possible when we leave the EU.
Mr Speaker
It is very good of the hon. Lady to drop in on us; I am sure she has a very busy schedule. As I am burbling on at her, she will be able to recover her breath, and we very much look forward to hearing her.
Danielle Rowley
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to announce to you and to the House—perhaps you will excuse my lateness—that today I am on my period, and this week it has already cost me £25. We know that the average cost of periods in the UK over a year is £500, which many women cannot afford. What is the Minister doing to address period poverty?
Victoria Atkins
As I say, we have invested £1.5 million in the Brook Young People “Let’s Talk. Period” project, supporting young women and girls on managing their menstruation and providing free products, if appropriate. The Government are committed to removing the VAT rate on sanitary products when we leave the EU. That will help with the cost of sanitary products.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
What discussions has the Minister had with ministerial colleagues at the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport about bids to address period poverty through the tampon tax fund?
Victoria Atkins
The Government set up the tampon tax fund from the 5% VAT that is charged on sanitary products. The fund serves many charities, but it is particularly helping the Brook Young People project, which I welcome.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Will the Minister confirm that we can reduce VAT to zero only because we are leaving the European Union? Can she quantify in millions of pounds how much that step will save women in Britain?
Victoria Atkins
On the first question, yes. On the second, I will write to my hon. Friend with the figure.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
Will the Minister join me in congratulating Wings Cymru, which supports every junior, primary and secondary school in my constituency, and in that of my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), in supplying sanitary products to all girls across the county borough? Will the Minister also welcome the fact that the Welsh Government have provided direct investment in order to give free sanitary products, after campaigning groups such as Wings Cymru have been lobbying? Is it not time that the UK Government stepped in to deliver more funding for free sanitary products?
Victoria Atkins
That is an interesting project and I am interested to hear about it. On the impact of periods on girls attending school, the Department for Education has conducted an analysis of absence statistics to see whether there is any evidence of period poverty having an impact on school attendance. There is currently no significant evidence, but we very much keep it under review, which is why there will be questions about it in the Department’s 2018 surveys for pupils and senior school leaders. We will of course review the project in Wales and, in fairness, the project in Scotland as well.
Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)
The Welsh and Scottish Governments recognise that period poverty is a serious issue and have both introduced schemes to tackle it, so why are the UK Government failing to provide support to tackle this growing problem and leaving it to charities and individual groups such as Beauty Banks, a cosmetics equivalent of food banks organised by Jo Jones and Sali Hughes, to fill the gap?
Victoria Atkins
As I said, we are watching with interest the Scottish Government’s commitment to deliver access to free sanitary products in schools and other educational institutions, along with the Welsh commitment. We will look at and review the outcomes of those studies and projects.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
Universal credit continues to support victims of domestic violence through a range of measures, including special conditions for temporary accommodation, conditionality easements and same-day advances. Work coaches will also signpost domestic violence victims to expert third-party support.
Peter Grant
The Women’s Budget Group has confirmed what we all knew: the practice of insisting on paying universal credit into a single bank account per household makes it much easier for domestic abusers to exert financial control over their victims. What discussions has the Department had with the DWP to end the practice and make split payments the default, rather than an exceptional practice?
Kit Malthouse
As the hon. Gentleman knows, there have been several debates on split payments, not least the Westminster Hall debate last week. The Scottish Government have of course mandated—and I think legislated for—the introduction of split payments. We are going to work with them to make that happen and we will see how it goes. The issue of mandatory split payments does, though, raise much more complexity than I think the hon. Gentleman might at first realise. There are questions about what the split should be if one person is not working and the other person is, or if one person pays more of the household bills than the other. There are lots of questions about whether people who are mandated to have split payments are able to opt out of them and, if so, whether they are doing so under duress. Much more important than split payments is our ability to detect and support the victims of domestic violence on the frontline.
Gavin Newlands
Notwithstanding the Minister’s answer, in addition to working with the Scottish Government, will he commit to working with my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) to support and progress her private Member’s Bill, which calls for the DWP to introduce split payments to protect women against financial domestic abuse and controlling relationships?
Kit Malthouse
Not at the moment, no. We have committed to enabling the introduction of split payments in Scotland, if it does indeed proceed. Work and discussions about split payments with the Scottish Government are ongoing, and I think the full truth of the complexity and the side effects of split payments is now dawning, so we shall see whether it proceeds. If it does, we will review it. As I said, I will keep an open mind about split payments and we will see what transpires in future.
Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)
The DWP has continued to say that split payments are available, but does the Minister agree that that may put women at risk of further abuse in relationships and may prevent them from asking for this option?
Kit Malthouse
I do not, no. We are making sure that work coaches at the frontline are able to offer and manually introduce a split payment when it is appropriate. The one thing that all of us who have been involved in work on domestic violence know is that it is critical that the victim is in control—that they have control of their own destiny and make decisions about what is in their best interests. If a split payment is appropriate, we will provide it.
Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)
The Minister for Women (Victoria Atkins)
It is unlawful to discriminate against women in the workplace because they are pregnant or new mothers. We are implementing the commitment set out in our response last year to the Women and Equalities Committee report on pregnancy discrimination. In our response to the Taylor review, we have committed to considering whether the legislation protecting pregnant women and new mothers from redundancy is adequate. That review is under way and we plan to publish a consultation in the summer.
Nigel Huddleston
Susan Wojcicki is the chief executive officer of YouTube and she has been quite outspoken on this issue. She says that mothers given paid maternity leave, for example, come back to work with new skills and insights that help a company’s bottom line. Does the Minister agree that supporting mothers in the workplace not only is the right thing to do, but can help and be good for business, too?
Victoria Atkins
Very much so. We have the highest rate of female employment on record. We know that we have more women returning to work after they have had caring responsibilities. The message to business is very clear: women are good for business. Organisations with the highest level of gender diversity in their leadership teams are 15% more likely to outperform their industry rivals.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
How women are treated when they become pregnant and have to take maternity leave is a disgrace in both how it affects their job promotion and how it affects them when they come back after maternity leave. Can we have more leadership and a new charter so that every woman and every employer knows their rights?
Victoria Atkins
The law is very clear: employers are not allowed to discriminate against women on the basis of pregnancy or of their maternity commitments. As part of dealing with the gender pay gap, employers are beginning to talk about how they treat their workforce in a way that they did not a year or two ago. To me, this is part of readjusting what we expect from employers and what employees expect of the people for whom they work.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
The Minister for Women (Victoria Atkins)
The Government commissioned an evidence review of menopause, published last July, which highlighted the important role that employers can play in supporting women. Following that, the Women’s Business Council developed a toolkit for employers, which enables employers to make the right adaptations to physical workplace environments, support flexible working, and raise awareness to help tackle this issue. To date, social media awareness-raising activity has reached nearly 300,000 people.
Liz McInnes
I thank the Minister for that answer. The TUC and the trade unions have produced some excellent guides to menopause policies in the workplace. Does she agree that menopause policies should become statutory for employers in the same way that maternity policies are statutory?
Victoria Atkins
This is part of our changing expectations of employers. We now know that the employment rate of older women, aged 50 to 64, has risen more than any other age group since 2010. With more women over the age of 50 remaining in work, more women will experience the symptoms of menopause while at work and so it is in employers’ interests to ensure that they have policies that adapt.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for her response. Can she further outline how information is provided to small businesses that do not have a human resources department and are not sure how to access help or information as easily as other businesses with HR departments?
Victoria Atkins
We are conscious of the difficulties of scale in small businesses, which is why the Women’s Business Council toolkit is available to employers of any size. We have also appointed the Business in the Community age at work leadership team as the business champion for older workers. We very much hope that its work will help employers and women understand their rights.
Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)
The Minister for Women and Equalities (Penny Mordaunt)
We are supporting the Hampton-Alexander review targets for women to hold 33% of all senior leadership and board positions in the FTSE 100 by 2020. Some 29% of the FTSE 100 board positions are now held by women, which is up from 12.5% in 2011.
Mr Cunningham
I thank the Minister for that answer, but I am sure that she would agree with me that, lower down the scale, a lot more needs to be done in terms of pay equality for women. Will she also have a discussion with her colleague at the DWP regarding the 11,000 WASPI women in Coventry who were born after 1951 and who are living in poverty to a certain extent because they cannot get their pension?
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. I am keen to look at a broader range of women than the Government Equalities Office has perhaps previously focused on, including the category of older women. We are really trying to look at everything facing women at that point in their life, including their caring responsibilities, their financial fragility and the options they have to stay economically active.
Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Edward Argar)
It is a pleasure that the first question that I will answer from this Dispatch Box is from my right hon. Friend, who has done so much to highlight and drive progress on these issues as Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee and throughout her time as a Member of this House.
The sharing of intimate images in this manner is a terrible abuse of trust that can leave victims feeling humiliated, degraded and betrayed. That is why we created—in section 33 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015—a new offence that criminalised the disclosure of private sexual photographs and films without the consent of an individual who appears in them, and with the intent to cause that individual distress. I am glad that people are being successfully prosecuted under this new offence, which carries a maximum sentence of two years behind bars, although there is always more that can be done.
Mrs Miller
I welcome my hon. Friend to his new position in the first of what I am sure will be very many opportunities to answer questions at the Dispatch Box.
When this Government made it a crime to post intimate sexual images online without consent, the then Minister said that the matter would be kept under review, particularly the calls from across the House to make it a sex offence so that victims could have anonymity. We now know that one in three victims will not take forward cases because of concerns about the impact on their lives, so will the Minister, in his new position, take another look at the issue and see whether we can do more to ensure that online sex-related crimes have the same standing as those committed offline?
Edward Argar
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight these issues. A range of factors can cause victims not to support charges; these include the legal and court process, the length of time the process takes and aspects such as anonymity, which my right hon. Friend mentioned. Although charging is a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service, and we have no immediate plans to review the rules around anonymity, we are committed to supporting all victims of crime and to improving processes where possible. We remain committed to bringing forward a victims strategy this summer, in which we will look at these factors and broader issues.
Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab)
Before I ask my question, may I just correct the record? It was, in fact, a Labour Government who reduced the tax on menstruation products in 2001 to the lowest allowed, which was 5%.
I concur with the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) and welcome the Minister to his new position. As we have heard, one in three cases is dropped, so would it not be better for victims and society if we made image-based sex crimes—commonly known as revenge porn—a sexual offence, so that victims can be given anonymity, just as victims will be given anonymity under provisions of the upskirting Bill?
Edward Argar
I am grateful for the shadow Minister’s kind words. I look forward to exchanging pleasant words with her across the Dispatch Box on many future occasions. She is right to highlight the importance of the issue. As I have said, we are committed to supporting and protecting victims. The opportunity currently exists for any victim—and, similarly, for witnesses—to apply for reporting restrictions to help them give evidence. Although we are not at this stage committing to review the rules around anonymity, we do of course continue to look at this matter. All factors will be considered as we move forward with this important legislation.
Danielle Rowley (Midlothian) (Lab)
The Minister for Women and Equalities (Penny Mordaunt)
Everyone should be able to live with dignity and respect, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity. Forty-seven years ago this week, the first LGBT Pride marches came to London. Those marches are as relevant today as they were then. Pride matters. As we prepare for our soon-to-be published LGBT action plan, Pride events are happening around the country, with Pride in London taking place next week. I would like to thank all those involved in organising the UK’s Pride events this year. I look forward to taking part in some of them myself and ask all Members on both sides of the House to support them.
Danielle Rowley
When a construction company in my constituency recently went bust, the construction workers, who are predominantly men, found support and mainly found re-employment, but the administration staff—predominantly women—did not. What are the Government doing to ensure that women are not disproportionately affected by closures?
Penny Mordaunt
The DWP takes such matters very seriously and will often put in a bespoke plan, particularly if there are a large number of redundancies in one location. A lot of work has been going on in the DWP to ensure that that happens across all sectors. I am sure that the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse), has heard the hon. Lady’s question and will take that back to the Department.
Mrs Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Edward Argar)
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. Although there have been successful prosecutions for this highly intrusive practice under existing offences, current legislation does not necessarily cover all instances of upskirting. By creating a specific upskirting offence, the Government are strengthening the law in this area. We are doing exactly what she alludes to—closing a loophole—and ensuring that the most serious sexual offenders go on the sex offenders register. We are determined to continue to work across the House and with Gina Martin and other campaigners to get this important law on the statute book.
Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab)
Talking about working across the House, the Women and Equalities Committee’s recent report on the race disparity audit notes:
“The ability to disaggregate is essential for understanding the roles that geography, age, gender, social class and poverty play in creating poorer outcomes for some people than for others.”
The socioeconomic duty would ensure that authorities gather that data and adopt policies to tackle inequalities. Will the Government enact section 1 of the Equality Act 2010 to address the conclusions and recommendations of the race disparity audit and the Women and Equalities Committee?
Penny Mordaunt
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. She is absolutely right; we cannot address equalities issues in silos. Much of the work that I have been doing in this new role has been looking at how we get all areas dealing with equalities across Government to become more than the sum of their parts. I am looking at the specific issue that she raises. We are also in discussion with political parties with regard to their obligations on reporting data and raising good practice across all sectors.
Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Jackie Doyle-Price)
I thank my hon. Friend for her question, because it gives me the opportunity to say that sex selection is not one of the lawful grounds for termination of a pregnancy. Indeed, it is illegal for a practitioner to carry out an abortion for that reason alone. The only circumstances in which sex-selective abortions would be permitted are where there is a gender-linked inherited medical condition.
Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Kit Malthouse)
I have to confess that I am not across the detail of that particular case, but if the hon. Gentleman would like to meet me to discuss it, I would be more than happy to do so.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
Edward Argar
We are applying a very similar approach to this to voyeurism, which carries a substantial two-year maximum custodial sentence, in order to reflect fully the seriousness of the crime. In addition, we are ensuring that the most serious sexual offenders can be placed on the sex offenders register, to help safeguard society, using the same bar as in our current law on voyeurism. The Bill is focused and clear, and I very much look forward to it continuing to receive cross-party support so that it can progress rapidly.
Joan Ryan (Enfield North) (Lab)
Edward Argar
I am grateful for the question from the right hon. Lady, who I know has long taken a close interest in these matters. The revenge porn helpline does great work, and within the context of the broader debate we are having at the moment, we will continue to look at it very carefully.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that, when publishing the LGBT action plan, the Government will also publish as much as possible of the survey data on which it is based?
Penny Mordaunt
We will certainly do that. We will publish the action plan, the survey results—the results of the largest survey of its kind ever undertaken in the world—and the Gender Recognition Act 2004 consultation. The survey results are important and they give us a good base to work from, but they are also sad reading and absolute evidence that we need to redouble our efforts to ensure that the LGBT+ community can thrive in the UK.
Colleen Fletcher (Coventry North East) (Lab)
On Tuesday, I attended the launch of the Coventry women’s partnership, which is a brilliant three-year, city-wide programme aiming to improve economic outcomes for women by providing access to skills, training, confidence building and support into employment. Does the Minister agree that this type of holistic programme of support is necessary if we are to empower women and achieve a more gender-equal future?
Kit Malthouse
I completely agree. It sounds like a wonderful initiative and event. I certainly hope that our locally based work coaches were involved in that event so that they could give the extensive assistance that we are now able to provide to all those seeking work.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Taking your sage advice to persist, Mr Speaker, may I ask my right hon. Friend when she will respond to the long-awaited consultation on removing caste from the Equality Act 2010?
Penny Mordaunt
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his persistence. I will do that shortly; I know that many Members of this House want that to be done. Since the last Women and Equalities questions, I have met the Dalit community—the meeting was organised by the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green)—and I am considering their particular concerns. I hope to make an announcement on this in the coming weeks.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Just this morning, the Government have published their report on the first year of the two-child restriction policy and rape clause in relation to child tax credits. As we predicted, the impact on women has been devastating: 3,000 families have been denied support and 190 women have had to declare the fact that they are survivors of rape in order to obtain support. How can this Government continue to defend this abhorrent and disgusting policy, and will they finally review it?
Kit Malthouse
As I have said in the past, we keep all our policies under constant review. I would say to the hon. Gentleman that one of the fundamental tenets of welfare reform is that the world of welfare should reflect the world of work and that people on welfare should have to take the same decisions as those who are in work, and that includes making decisions about the number of children they may or may not have. It is worth explaining that there are no current losers from the policy, but only people in contemplation.
On the particular issue of those who have children and what the hon. Gentleman calls the rape clause, we are trying to be as sensitive as we possibly can. I have made the offer to his SNP colleague, the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), to meet her if she has ideas about a better way to handle it. At the moment, no one needs to make a specific declaration; we can signpost people to, and assist them in getting, the support they need in those circumstances. We are obviously very keen to hear from third-party organisations working with women subject to that appalling situation to make sure they get the support they need.
Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
Just a few days ago, the Government helped to lead the way by supporting proposals from the International Labour Organisation to agree a convention outlawing sexual harassment at work around the world. Will my hon. Friend urge colleagues to include support for this convention in their trade talks, which I know are top of the Government’s agenda?
The Minister for Women (Victoria Atkins)
As my right hon. Friend knows, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities and I take a great interest in this subject, and we will be encouraging all Departments to have that principle in mind, not just in international trade agreements, but in every policy that can be so affected.
Petition
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
I would be the first to say that Ealing has some great schools; I know that as I am a product of them myself, I use them as a mum, and I am the sort of MP who goes to assemblies. I will go to my first school fête on Saturday—at Montpelier School, my old primary.
However, I also recognise that the formal school system is not for everyone, and that is what this petition is about. It has been spearheaded by Jackie Fahy of Chiswick and is backed by people from all over my constituency—the Freely family of Ealing, the Carberry family of Acton, Elizabeth Howard, Sarah Bignell and loads of other people. Their issue is about safeguards for people who home-educate their kids and the need for there not to be overbearing regulation. I understand that this is the first such petition of hundreds that have been received by Members on both sides of the House; I just seem to have been the first to have got here.
The petition states:
The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to withdraw the draft guidelines and the consultation, until it has put in place an accessible and workable complaints procedure and further has consulted with home educating parents, as it has with Local Authorities, what the contents should include.
Following is the full text of the petition:
[The petition of residents of the United Kingdom,
Declares that the “Home Education - Call for Evidence and revised DfE guidance” has been written following significant consultation with local authorities and no consultation whatsoever with the home education community; further that the consultation is consequently for little more than show as an intention to implement the content has already been stated; further that it seeks to encourage local authorities to breach the ECHR Article 8 and the GDPR; and further that the report provides no accessible means for a parent to address ultra vires behaviour by their local authority, where many of those authorities already act routinely in an ultra vires manner.
The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to withdraw the draft guidelines and the consultation, until it has put in place an accessible and workable complaints procedure and further has consulted with home educating parents, as it has with Local Authorities, what the contents should include.
And the petitioners remain, etc.]
[P002164]
Nuclear Sector Deal
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Ind)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy if he will make a statement on the nuclear sector deal.
The Minister for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation (Mr Sam Gyimah)
The Business Secretary is currently in north Wales, in Trawsfynydd, launching the nuclear sector deal, which is why I am here in his place.
The industrial strategy sets out how long-term partnerships between the Government and industry can create significant opportunities to boost productivity, employment, innovation and skills. We committed to agreeing sector deals with industries that put forward ambitious proposals to boost productivity and earning power in their sector. The Government are today launching the nuclear sector deal, the fifth in a series of deals, as part of their industrial strategy. I would like to take this opportunity to praise the long-standing support and work of the hon. Gentleman’s predecessor, Lord Hutton of Furness, who has helped to facilitate the deal today from the industry side.
The nuclear sector in the UK is an economic powerhouse, equivalent in scale to the aerospace industry. It provides highly skilled, long-term employment for 87,500 people and is a driver of regional growth. Nuclear generation provides more than 20% of the UK’s electricity supply, and its low-carbon, reliable baseload power complements the growing renewable portfolio that is enabling the UK to reduce CO2 emissions in line with our commitments. The nuclear sector deal announces a package of measures to support the sector as we develop low-carbon nuclear power and continue to clean up our nuclear legacy.
The deal is about the Government and industry working in partnership to drive competitiveness across the nuclear sector. We will use these initial actions as a platform for future collaboration and investment in the sector. The Government have notified Parliament of today’s deal by means of a written ministerial statement and deposited a copy of the sector deal in the Libraries of both Houses. This is a good day for the nuclear industry and for Wales, where we are focusing on small modular reactors that can help Wales become a world leader in this sector.
John Woodcock
I thank the Minister for reading studiously from the brief presented to him, but why on earth did the Business Secretary, or indeed the Minister for Energy and Clean Growth, not see fit either to come to Parliament or to make themselves available to answer questions on this important issue, but instead issue a press release last night and allow us as Members of Parliament to read about it?
The deal is indeed welcome, and I join the Minister in praising my predecessor, Lord Hutton, for the work that he did when in this Chamber and which he now does in his role in the civil nuclear industry in pushing the Government along on this. Can the Minister say more about small modular reactors? How many do the Government expect there to be within the next 10 years? How will the Government ensure that British firms and British research and development, and not simply foreign direct investment, benefit? Can he guarantee that this will supplement the larger civil nuclear build, rather than replace it? Planning for the long term, as this strategy seeks to do, is important and right, but as I hope he knows, the industry faces potential crisis now. What is happening on Euratom? Can he guarantee that standards will be maintained absolutely and that there will be sufficient people to deliver them as we approach the cliff edge?
What is the Government’s position on direct investment? Will the Government now pledge to invest directly in Moorside, as they are planning to do in Wylfa? More than 20,000 jobs are at stake in south Cumbria unless the Government act on that.
Talk of supporting nuclear clusters is all very well, but will the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy intervene directly with the Department for Transport in Cumbria and stop the wonderful, world-class nuclear cluster that we could have there being inhibited by the fact that we have to drive through a farmyard to get from civil nuclear in the west to the nuclear submarine building programme in the south, in my constituency?
Mr Gyimah
I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern, but a written ministerial statement is being laid before Parliament today, and I reiterate that the Secretary of State and the Energy Minister are in Wales, launching the nuclear sector deal as we speak. Given the hon. Gentleman’s long-standing, diligent campaign in this area, I am happy to offer him a meeting with the Secretary of State and officials as soon as possible, to go through all the elements of the deal and especially its impact on his constituency.
The hon. Gentleman asked how many small modular reactors there would be. The honest answer is that the number is not set at the moment. The Government are recognising the potential for such reactors and investing in research and development.
On direct investment and whether we will pledge to do the same for Moorside as for Wylfa, I understand the hon. Gentleman’s particular interest. Our priority is to build the infrastructure that the country needs in a way that delivers value for money for taxpayers. On 4 June the Secretary of State made a statement to Parliament, announcing direct Government investment in the Wylfa Newydd project. For future projects we are looking at the viability of a regulated asset model, as we have done before.
Safety and security is obviously a top priority and we will work with the sector and regulators to ensure that our staff are in place, but I reiterate the offer of a meeting as soon as possible, at which the hon. Gentleman may discuss all the details with officials and Ministers.
Trudy Harrison (Copeland) (Con)
This is a brilliant day and I am delighted that the Government are demonstrating their recognition of our nuclear sector. I was particularly pleased to see the reference to 40% more females working in the industry by 2030, and I hope the Minister will join me in acknowledging the work that the women in nuclear do, but also the barriers, because often, nuclear licensed sites are in coastal, rural locations where affordable, flexible, high-quality childcare is simply not available at the moment. I hope he will work with me in improving that in my constituency. The Minister talks of the 87,500 workers in the nuclear industry. In Cumbria, we have 27,000 of those; we are absolutely the centre of nuclear excellence.
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend, who has campaigned assiduously on this issue since she joined the House, makes a very good point around the commitment to increase the number of women working in the sector. That is a significant commitment, and one that we are determined to deliver on.
More generally, for Cumbria, a major component of the deal is support for lower-cost decommissioning using advanced manufacturing techniques, so Cumbria is set to benefit, as it is from Sellafield which, as my hon. Friend said, employs several thousand people and leads on some of the most complex decommissioning challenges.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
I welcome the publication, albeit delayed, of a nuclear sector deal, but the Secretary of State really should be here to announce the deal, not least so that we can get some answers to the questions asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), which we did not in the Minister’s previous response. Nuclear energy plays an important part in reducing our reliance on fossil fuels and in delivering jobs and prosperity to the parts of the country that most need investment, not least my hon. Friend’s constituency. We very much welcome the 40% target of women working in the civil nuclear sector by 2030, but when is it going to be 50%?
This announcement is mostly a repackaging of existing policy. Of the headline £200 million, it seems that only £10 million is new Government funding, so will the Minister confirm the £56 million for R&D for advanced modular reactors and the £86 million for a national fusion technology platform, both announced last December, and the £32 million for an advanced manufacturing and construction programme, which was unveiled last month? Will he also confirm why there has been a considerable downgrade in the funding available for small modular reactors? In 2015, the then Chancellor said that £250 million would be allocated to small nuclear reactors. At the end of 2017, the Department said that £100 million would be allocated, and now it is just £56 million.
The Minister mentioned Wales, so will he take the opportunity to clarify the Government’s funding arrangements for the Wylfa plant in Anglesey? In the week when the Government have scrapped the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, it has become clear that different rules apply for different technologies. This announcement should have been made alongside a commitment to invest in tidal energy. Both are equally important. The Committee on Climate Change says today that the Government are failing to keep up with agreed targets on decarbonisation. With this week’s announcement to scrap the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, the expansion of airport capacity and the modesty of the nuclear sector deal, will he tell us how the Government are going to meet their climate change obligations?
Mr Gyimah
On the question of there being no new money here, that is not correct. The deal announced today has £20 million for advanced manufacturing, £10 million for supply chain support, £40 million for potential hydraulics facilities in north Wales and £32 million of industry money, and potentially more to come. That is new money. On the much broader question of tidal energy versus nuclear, to reiterate the arguments that have been made in the House already this week, the Swansea bay proposal would cost £1.3 billion to build but would have produced only 0.15% of the electricity we use each year—a capital cost that is more than three times as much per unit of electricity as Hinkley Point C. The same power generated by Swansea over 60 years would cost only £400 million for offshore wind, even at today’s prices. There are some people you can never please, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Trudy Harrison) said, today is a good story for the nuclear industry, and I hope that Opposition Members join us in welcoming it.
Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)
I welcome today’s sector deal and particularly the role for small modular reactors, which are an obvious replacement for decommissioned coal-fired power stations. Will the Minister confirm that today’s announcement means that nuclear remains a key part of our energy mix, providing a diverse energy source as part of this Government’s industrial strategy?
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
With Mark Carney saying that Brexit has cost each household £900, this Government’s support for costly nuclear energy is a further blow to household budgets. The deal coincides with the proposed nuclear power station at Wylfa in Anglesey in north Wales with a trailed strike price of around £80 per megawatt-hour, brought down from Hinkley’s £92.5 per megawatt-hour through UK Government support with capital costs. This is still significantly more than wind, which comes in at around £57.5 per megawatt-hour, even including intermittency costs. Having failed the North sea in its time of need and abandoned cost-effective carbon capture and renewables technology, why do the UK Government persist with an energy policy that continues to fail Scottish industry while hiking cost for consumers?
Mr Gyimah
We have become accustomed in this House to Scottish National party MPs doing one thing north of the border and saying a different thing south of the border. The former Member for Gordon, when he was First Minister, backed the life extension of the nuclear plants in Scotland, so I am surprised that faced with this deal they are not welcoming the jobs in the supply chain from which Scotland will benefit. Yes, we are focused on nuclear, but as part of a balanced approach to ensure that we have the energy sources we need for the future.
Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)
This announcement is very welcome indeed, particularly in relation to the under-representation of women in the nuclear industry. Has there been any scoping as to the positive impact on emissions of this new investment?
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend is right to point out the commitment to women. Currently, the percentage of women in the sector is 22%. We believe that is far too low. Forty per cent. is an ambition we intend to meet and build on, although that does not seem to be enough for the Opposition. The impact on emissions has been considered. I draw the attention of Members to the nuclear deal, which is in the House of Commons Library.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
I welcome the launch of the nuclear sector deal, which is being held this morning in Trawsfynydd power station in my constituency. I congratulate local people and trade unions, and especially Prospect rep Rory Trappe of Blaenau Ffestiniog, for working to safeguard the tradition of innovative and safe energy production in the heart of Welsh-speaking Meirionnydd. The people of Wales seek to be equipped with the means to overcome poverty. Today’s announcement is a step in the right direction that will strengthen our capacity to generate and to profit from exporting energy, offering once again the prospect of well-paid technology jobs in a region that presently suffers some of the lowest wages in the UK. I call on the Minister to do all he can to work with the Welsh Government, Cyngor Gwynedd, Grŵp Llandrillo Menai and higher education to develop Trawsfynydd to its full economic potential, and I specifically call for final site clearance of the two decommissioned reactors to enable that.
Mr Gyimah
I welcome the extended question from the hon. Lady. She is absolutely right to say that small modular reactors in Wales could position Wales as a world leader. It is encouraging to see Ministers from Westminster at the launch today. They are working closely in partnership with Welsh Government officials. I believe that that is how we are going to make this a success. On the broader question, we will do everything possible to make this work for Wales.
Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)
I too welcome today’s announcement. Will the Minister do whatever he can to back the new industrial research and development advanced manufacturing research centre site planned for Derby’s Infinity Park, located alongside the global headquarters for Rolls-Royce, which already leads the way in small modular reactors?
Mr Gyimah
Part of the way to achieve success in this area, and indeed in most other areas of science, is to have clusters around the country. Part of the industrial strategy is to ensure that where such clusters exist, support is available for them to be successful, as with the one in Derby that my hon. Friend mentions.
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) on once again assiduously doing his job as a constituency Member. He asked a question of the Minister which was not answered: what is going to happen with regard to Euratom, particularly if we crash out with no deal? Can the Minister assure us that we will continue to be in Euratom through the transition period and after any agreement?
Mr Gyimah
The Prime Minister has made it clear that, as part of our negotiations with the EU, we want to associate with Euratom research and training, as well as the new science and research programme, Horizon Europe. We are working on that and look to be a full partner with the EU, paying our share of the costs. Obviously, as part of the implementation period we will continue to be a part of it. The rest is subject to negotiations, but we have made it very clear to the European Union that we want to continue to associate.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
What will the impact be of the measures associated with this deal on the cost of new nuclear power stations and on decommissioning former nuclear sites?
Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)
The costs of all renewable technologies, including wind and solar, have fallen faster than almost anyone predicted, and they now represent much better-value low-carbon energy. However, the Government cut investment in renewables by more than 50% in 2017, and just this week they rejected proposals for the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. Is this additional investment in nuclear further evidence that the Government are turning their back on renewables?
Mr Gyimah
On the contrary. Since 1990, the UK has cut emissions by 43%, while our economy has grown by more than two thirds. We have reduced emissions faster than any other G7 nation, while leading the G7 countries in growth in national income per person. We are actually increasing our economic growth, while at the same time ensuring that we are doing what we need to do for the environment by promoting clean growth.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Given the good news that the Minister has announced, I am surprised that it took an urgent question from the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) to secure a Government response.
Will my hon. Friend update us on what will be done to enable small modular reactors to be spread across the United Kingdom, so that we can cease to rely on fossil fuels?
Mr Gyimah
The Government do not intend to hide their light under a bushel in terms of the good news. My hon. Friend can find the paper on the sector deal in the House of Commons Library. As for the promotion of small modular reactors across the UK, it is part of our industrial strategy, but the nuclear sector deal and our work with the industry will help in a specific way.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
The Minister said that the Government’s priority was to build the infrastructure that the country needs, but, with barely a mention of climate change, his announcement must seem like hollow words to the people of south Wales and the west of England, coming as it does in the same week as the decision not to support the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. When will the Government recognise the huge untapped potential of tidal energy, and get serious about climate change?
Mr Gyimah
I have already made it very clear that the Government have succeeded in cutting our emissions while increasing growth. The nuclear sector deal is part of our ambition for cleaner growth in this country. I know that Opposition Members do not agree with the decision on the tidal lagoon, but it is clear that the same power generation over 60 years with offshore wind would cost only £400 million, even at today’s prices. Sometimes it is necessary to look at the hard facts and make decisions based on those.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
Given the role that the nuclear industry plays in providing highly paid and highly skilled jobs throughout the south-west, including south Devon, this announcement is very welcome, but how does the Minister envisage the benefits of the sector deal being spread across the United Kingdom, and particularly into the south-west of England?
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) on securing the urgent question.
Renewables are also an important part of our energy mix, and in east Yorkshire, particularly with offshore wind, we are leading the world in that development. When might we see a sector deal for renewables, and can the Minister tell us when we will be given more details about the sector deals for local areas which the Government announced, I think, last year?
Mr Gyimah
As part of our industrial strategy, we committed ourselves to a series of sector deals. So far, five have been announced, including the life sciences deal, the automotive sector deal, the artificial intelligence deal, and the nuclear sector deal announced today. We are looking for opportunities across the board, and if there is an opportunity for us to develop a sector deal working with industry, we are willing to proceed. As the hon. Lady knows, clean growth is one of the four grand challenges in the industrial strategy, and we will make sure that we do everything we need to do to make a success of it.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
The Minister has confirmed that the new nuclear sector deal plans to reduce the costs both of new-build nuclear projects and of decommissioning old nuclear sites. By how much and by when?
Mr Gyimah
We can always on my hon. Friend for a very precise question. We expect, by 2030, a 30% reduction in the cost of new-build projects. We also want, by 2030, to improve diversity across the sector by achieving 40% female participation, as I mentioned. Again by 2030, we expect to achieve savings of 20% in the cost of decommissioning.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Is the Minister aware that I spent seven happy years as a councillor in Lliw Valley near Swansea in south Wales? I am therefore very disappointed that this morning’s announcement, which I welcome, could not have been combined with the right decision this week on the Swansea Bay barrage scheme. While I am in favour of small nuclear energy initiatives and hope they will spread, is there not still a question mark over what we do with nuclear waste? We still have not resolved that, and it is still a real problem and a real challenge for our society. Will he give an assurance that we will have an answer?
Mr Speaker
I had not been aware of the hon. Gentleman’s distinguished career in local government, but I am now.
Mr Gyimah
Nor had I been aware of the hon. Gentleman’s distinguished career, Mr Speaker—you learn something new every day in this House.
I can give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that safety is absolutely paramount in the plans that the Government have. On the tidal lagoon, the proposed programme would have cost the average household consumer up to £700 between 2031 and 2050. Each week in this House, there is a question about what we are doing to bring down the cost of energy. We are not against tidal lagoons, but we cannot support every project at any price, and that is why we made the decision that we did.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
This is a good nuclear sector deal, but are tidal lagoons totally off the agenda now?
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
The electronic infrastructure summit held this week in London urged the need for independent cyber-security audits across critical national infrastructure, particularly in the energy sector. Does the Minister agree that nuclear is one sector where we urgently need to ensure that cyber-security keeps us free from attacks and black sky events?
Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)
In Scotland, the nuclear energy sector is worth £1 billion a year, employs 12,000 people, and generates 35% of the nation’s electricity in a stable and consistent way. Scotland’s four advanced gas-cooled reactors are due to be decommissioned and taken offline by 2030. Has the Minister had any discussions with his Scottish ministerial counterparts on the huge industrial opportunity that this presents for Scotland at Hunterston and Torness after 2030?
Mr Gyimah
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has recognised that there is a huge opportunity for Scotland in this deal, given how much Scotland participates in the supply chain. As we are doing with the devolved Government in Wales, we will be working with all the devolved Administrations, where this is relevant to them, to make a success of this deal.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his statement. Does he agree that an essential component of this deal is the research and development component to make the use of nuclear power safer and more effective, and to better harness the ability of the UK to produce our own energy as opposed to relying on middle eastern fuel?
Mr Gyimah
The hon. Gentleman is right to point to the R and D component as critical to success in this field. In the industrial strategy we have committed to increase the R and D spend from the current 1.7% to 2.4% of GDP by 2027. This will be a mixture of public and private investment, and by achieving this huge commitment—£80 billion over the next decade—we will be able to do the sorts of things we need to do here in nuclear to make sure we have a secure source of energy.
Business of the House
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House please give us the forthcoming business?
The Leader of the House of Commons (Andrea Leadsom)
The business for next week will include:
Monday 2 July—Estimates day (3rd allotted day). There will be a debate on estimates relating to the Ministry of Justice, Department of Health and Social Care and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government.
Tuesday 3 July—Estimates day (4th allotted day). There will be a debate on estimates relating to the Department for Education and Her Majesty’s Treasury that relate to grants to the devolved institutions.
At 7 pm, the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates, followed by a motion relating to the appointment of trustees to the House Of Commons Members Fund.
Wednesday 4 July—Proceedings on the Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill, followed by remaining stages of the Ivory Bill, followed by Opposition day (allotted half day). There will be a debate on a motion in the name of the Scottish National party, subject to be announced.
Thursday 5 July—General debate on the principle of proxy voting, followed by a debate on a motion on the future of the transforming care programme. The subject for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Committee.
Friday 6 July—Private Members’ Bills.
The provisional business for the week commencing 9 July will include:
Monday 9 July—Consideration of a business of the House motion, followed by proceedings on the Northern Ireland Budget (No.2) Bill.
Alongside the news that the EU withdrawal Bill received Royal Assent, there are a couple of other things to celebrate in Parliament this week. First, the House of Commons Library reaches the ripe old age of 200; that is 200 years the House has benefited from this crucial service and for that we are very grateful. Secondly, the Voice & Vote exhibition has launched in Westminster Hall and is open right through to October. Visitors can see just how far women in politics have come since they were hidden behind the brass grilles above this very Chamber. In this Vote 100 year, it is bound to be a hugely popular event. I hope many will come to Westminster to relive those achievements. Finally, it is National Democracy Week next week. There is a huge programme of events taking place right across Whitehall and I look forward to being a part of it.
Mr Speaker
Thank you. I echo very much what the Leader of the House has just said about the magnificent and celebratory exhibition in Westminster Hall, and in echoing that I urge people attending our proceedings today if they have a little spare time and have not already viewed the exhibition to do so. An enormous amount of specialist loving care and preparation have gone into it and, like the Leader of the House, I am very proud of the exhibition. I joined the Lords Speaker and the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee on Tuesday evening formally to open it, and it is well worth seeing.
Valerie Vaz
I thank the Leader of the House for announcing the business; we are back to a week and a day.
When the Leader of the House tables a change in Standing Orders, will she give the Opposition sight of the motion? We did not have that when there was a change from three to five days in the estimates motion. There was no prior discussion through the Whips Office or the usual channels. Can she let us know the reasons behind the change?
May I also pick up on what the Leader of the House said about me a couple of weeks ago? She said I was not
“fulfilling the democratic will of the people of Walsall.”—[Official Report, 14 June 2018; Vol. 642, c. 1102.]
My constituency may have voted to leave, but one ward voted to remain and my job—and the job of all Members—is to balance the 48% and the 52%. Our duty is to act in the best interests of all our constituents and the whole of the UK. We have to hear the evidence on the impact. Perhaps she will rephrase that and wait for the Electoral Commission report on the leave campaign during the referendum. I am sure she will find time to debate that report in Government time and, in the meantime, join me in congratulating the excellent journalist Carole Cadwalladr in winning the George Orwell prize for her investigative work with the whistleblower Christopher Wylie, which resulted in an apology from Facebook and the collapse of Cambridge Analytica because they misused personal data.
Saturday is the International Day of Parliamentarism—I think that is how it is pronounced—a new day that was agreed by the United Nations, which adopted a resolution on the interaction between the UN, national Parliaments and the Inter-Parliamentary Union. Of course, this Government voted down the fact that Parliament is sovereign last week. They do not want to give Parliament a final say. The Leader of the House will know that that had nothing to do with the negotiations; all that Parliament wanted was to be sovereign and to have a final say on the terms of the deal.
We need that final say because the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union first told us that there were no sectoral analyses, then, after pressure from the Opposition, he published them. He then said that there was no preliminary analysis on our exiting EU; then he published it. Now he says that there is a White Paper, but it is apparently written in invisible ink. We need to know when it will be published. Will the Leader of the House tell us when that will happen? Will she also tell us whether the Trade Bill and the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill will return before the recess? They seem to be stuck in a legislative logjam, and we do not appear to have anything to do after 9 July. Will she table the next stages of those Bills?
How do we mark Armed Forces Day on Saturday? The Opposition Labour party has called for proper investment in our armed forces so that the UK can retain its rightful place as a tier 1 military nation, and I am pleased to see that the Defence Secretary has now joined us in making that call. Will the Leader of the House tell us when the Government will make time for a statement on restoring our armed forces to a tier 1 military nation?
It was Micro, Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Day yesterday. We have heard what the Foreign Secretary thinks of business, and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care joined in last Sunday. The Tory leader in Wales has had to resign over his anti-business comments. Business leaders have rightly raised their concerns, in a measured way, about what they are going to do to plan for their workforce and for their companies. And, as if to underline the Government’s anti-business credentials, they have now turned off the switch on the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. This seems to be an anti-business, anti-innovative Government.
The Leader of the House has announced an estimates day on the NHS. When can we have a debate on Torbay—another council that is about to collapse? It was a pioneer in integrated care. As a member of the Health Committee, I visited Torbay, where I saw an integrated service that tracked “Mrs Smith” from the start of the process in social care, through the NHS and back out again. They told us that, when the Health and Social Care Bill became an Act, they would not be able to pool the budgets. When we went to Denmark, they wanted to look at our system. They looked at Torbay and reminded us about “Mrs Smith”.
The Government seem to be too busy fighting among themselves to fight for this country. We have the Defence Secretary at loggerheads with the Chancellor, who has had to concede to the Health Secretary, promising money that the Chancellor said he did not have. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury has said that the Environment Secretary is talking nonsense, and the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union has apparently pulled a white rabbit out of a hat, rather than a White Paper. The Leader of the House has also joined in, saying that the Environment Secretary and the Trade Secretary are tearing to shreds the Prime Minister’s preferred option for the customs partnership. There’s loyalty for you.
I want to join the Leader of the House in talking about some positive aspects. My hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) is having a discussion on the political life of Nye Bevan. He will be speaking on the NHS in the Macmillan Room on Wednesday and, with your kind permission, Mr Speaker, hosting a reception in Speaker’s House. I also want to celebrate 200 years of the Library, which is absolutely fantastic. Again thanks to you, Mr Speaker, there will be a reception in Speaker’s House. I want to join you and the Leader of the House in thanking Melanie Unwin and Mari Takayanagi, who have taken four years to curate the Voice & Vote exhibition in Westminster Hall. I, too, encourage all Members and their constituents to visit that fantastic exhibition.
Andrea Leadsom
The hon. Lady has asked about estimates day debates. I am sure she is aware that estimates are laid annually rather than sessionally. This means that the Government must request supply from the House twice a year. The motion tabled by the Government and agreed by the House on Tuesday made provision for next week’s debates to take place in line with the recommendations of the Liaison Committee and the Procedure Committee, and in accordance with Monday’s resolution of the House about the subject of the debates. She claimed not to know any of that, but I am sure that, if she were to ask, she would find that those are the clear conventions of the House.
The hon. Lady asked about the legislative programme and claims that no progress is being made. I say to her again, as I often do, that 36 important Bills have been introduced so far this Session; that is absolutely in line with other parliamentary Sessions. Nineteen Bills have been sent for Royal Assent already, hundreds of statutory instruments have been passed by each House, and seven draft Bills have been published.
The hon. Lady likes to imply that important business is not going on, yet just yesterday we had the Second Reading of the Offensive Weapons Bill, which seeks to make it harder for young people to buy knives and acid online and seeks to ban possession of such awful things as zombie knives, knuckle dusters and “death stars”. Those are incredibly important domestic pieces of legislation that really matter to the country, if not the Opposition. Our energy price caps Bill is on track; the Tenant Fees Bill will make renting easier and fairer; the Ivory Bill will introduce the toughest ban in the world; and our Data Protection Act is already making sure that the UK maintains our gold standard in data protection. It is extraordinary that the hon. Lady does not seem to be aware of this important legislation.
The hon. Lady says that the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill is an affront to Parliament; I do not think that of a Bill on which more than 280 hours of debate took place, to which there were more than 1,400 amendments and to which both Houses have contributed significant changes, or of a Bill that will give certainty for citizens and businesses in this country as we leave the EU in March 2019. That is what the people of this country, including in Walsall—the hon. Lady’s part of the country—voted for: a democratic vote of the majority of the people. All Members across the House should welcome that.
It is a great shame that Opposition Members are all over the place—some in the Aye Lobby, some in the No Lobby, some sitting on their hands and some just disappearing from this place altogether. I found it extraordinary that the Opposition chose to vote against programme motions earlier this week, but then disappeared; having lost the programme motion, they had nothing further to say on the subject. It is absolutely astonishing—not on the part of the Government, but on the part of the Opposition. They do not know what they are doing.
The hon. Lady talked about the armed forces, and I absolutely pay tribute to their amazing work at this important time. But again, I gently point out that it is the Government side of the House that has enshrined the armed forces covenant in law; has provided nearly £500 million from LIBOR bank fines to support armed forces charities and other good causes; has provided £200 million for the Forces Help to Buy; has allowed £68 million on upgrading service family accommodation; and is providing far more support for veterans than ever before. The armed forces do a fantastic job and we will continue to support them. We will continue to have a £37 billion defence budget and to be the second biggest defence spender in NATO. That is incredibly important for the security and safety of people in this country.
The hon. Lady asks about business and Brexit. She likes to suggest, as Opposition Members have, that not much consultation is going on. I can tell her that Department for Exiting the European Union Ministers alone have undertaken more than 500 recorded engagements with businesses since July 2016. The Secretaries of State for DExEU and for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, along with the Chancellor, have an EU exit business advisory group, involving the directors general of the CBI, the Institute of Directors, the EEF, the British Chambers of Commerce and the Federation of Small Businesses. We have hosted many CEOs from a range of businesses across the economy at events at Chevening House.
It is this Government who are listening to the needs of businesses; that is why we have negotiated for an implementation period, which was welcomed by those businesses. That is absolutely vital. It is a great shame that Opposition Members cannot seem to decide what they support. They are certainly not supporting a successful Brexit for the United Kingdom in March 2019. Fortunately, it is this Government and our Prime Minister who are determined to achieve a Brexit that will work for all parts of the United Kingdom.
Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend find time for a debate on noise pollution? You and your deputies, Mr Speaker, do an admirable job in dealing with noise in this Chamber, but the same cannot be said about Southend West at the moment. I am receiving increasing complaints from local residents about noise from various venues, not to mention the thorny problem of aircraft noise.
Andrea Leadsom
As ever, my hon. Friend raises an interesting point, and one that is of great importance not only to his constituents but to many across the country. The Government are committed to making sure that noise is managed effectively in order to promote good health and quality of life. To avoid significant noise impacts, we have strong protections in place in our planning system, in our environmental permitting systems, in our vehicle and product standards regulations and, of course, in our noise abatement legislation. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will be engaging closely with stakeholders in the months ahead on what more we can do to effectively manage noise in ways that best address the country’s needs.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
I thank the Leader of the House for announcing the business for next week. I fully endorse what she said and what you said, Mr Speaker, about the Voice & Vote exhibition in Westminster Hall.
As Gareth Southgate’s finest get ready to face the might of Belgium, the Prime Minister, almost ironically, is off to Brussels today. I wonder who will fare better in the battles with Barnier’s barmy bureaucrat army. Where Gareth Southgate has Harry Kane as his mercurial, talismanic front man, the Prime Minister has, well, the Foreign Secretary and his woeful disciplinary record and tendency to mouth off at his own side before being offered up for transfer. Where Southgate’s side is a well-organised, disciplined unit, the Prime Minister’s could not be more shambolic and undisciplined—they are more likely to score a series of own goals. As all the St George’s flags go up today, we can all join in: we only sing when we’re leaving.
May we please have a debate on all this dark money that is running rampant through some political parties in this House? Earlier this week, an investigation by BBC Northern Ireland shone a shocking light on the practices of former Scottish Conservative vice-chair Richard Cook and some of the leave campaign’s funding. The investigation raises further questions about donations to the Scottish Conservatives.
The shady Scottish Unionist Association Trust has given or loaned some £319,000 to Conservative candidates in Scotland. This trust has no official address and no history of transparency but has made donations to at least two Scottish Conservative Members. I have asked the Electoral Commission to fully investigate the Scottish Unionist Association Trust—this murky organisation has been bankrolling the Tories in Scotland for the past few years—but we need a full debate on this dark money, as I fear we have seen only the tip of the Scottish Tory dodgy donations iceberg.
Lastly, the Scottish schools have broken up for the summer holidays. Whereas Members representing English constituencies will again benefit from being able to spend the full summer holidays with their school-age children, we from Scotland will not. On behalf of all Scottish Members here today, I thank the Leader of the House once again.
Andrea Leadsom
The hon. Gentleman did not say who he will be supporting today. Is it Belgium or is it England? Is it the Prime Minister or is it Michel Barnier? It would be interesting to know the answers, but I appreciate that it is for me to answer the questions, and I absolutely assure him that I will be supporting England all the way. I would go a step further and say that I will always support the entire United Kingdom.
Andrea Leadsom
I fully support the Prime Minister, and I think she is doing a superb job of representing the interests of the entire United Kingdom as we seek a good Brexit.
The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) asked about the Electoral Commission, and this is a very serious issue. There are Scotland questions on 11 July, and I expect and anticipate that he will raise the question then, which would be the appropriate point.
I am very aware and very concerned that schools in Scotland break up sooner than schools in other parts of the United Kingdom. As I promised I would, I have sought a childcare solution for Scottish Members, and I understand from feedback that it is not exactly what they wanted. I am keen to try to help with this, and I do understand. It is difficult for all of us when we want to spend time with our children in the holidays, and I am keen to meet the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues to discuss what more we can do to facilitate some of their children being able to spend a bit of time enjoying themselves here while, at the same time, having time with their parents.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
I think the hon. Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) is sporting a kind of England tie, and we should hear from the fellow. His tie is very natty indeed.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Britain has a record number of outstanding breweries, including four in my constituency and the excellent Hook Norton Brewery in that of my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis), whom I am meeting this afternoon. Might we have time for a debate on the opportunities after Brexit to restructure beer duty in order to support not only our excellent brewers, but our vital community pubs?
Andrea Leadsom
I know my hon. Friend chairs the all-party group on beer, which promotes great UK beers. I have a number of brewers in my constituency who have had the pleasure of bringing a barrel to the Strangers’ Bar here in Parliament. We are all big supporters of brewers in our own areas, and he is right to point out the opportunities Brexit provides. These beers are superb UK products, and we need to do everything we can to promote the excellent and rising exports of British food and drink as we leave the EU.
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
In the aftermath of yesterday’s events in Russia, I am just wondering whether the Leader of the House can explain to the House what the word “schadenfreude” means.
I know this is a big ask, but I really would welcome it if, through the usual channels, we could get an early indication of the time allocations for the Backbench Business Committee in both the run-up to the summer recess and the two weeks in September, as we have to try to plan ahead for those eventualities. Lastly, yesterday I had the privilege of hosting a very successful lobby by providers, workers and clients of the care sector for adults with learning difficulties and disabilities. There is a big problem with back pay for sleep-in workers, which has not yet been resolved. May we have an early indication or a statement from the Government about how that is progressing, because the sector is becoming very uneasy about it and some contractors are actually thinking about handing in contracts and leaving local authorities with the burden of looking after their clients, and that will be a big problem?
Andrea Leadsom
I feel I should say that I felt quite sad for Germany, as it was a difficult blow yesterday—
Andrea Leadsom
Sorry, but I did feel some sympathy there. We will absolutely take on board the hon. Gentleman’s request for as much notice as possible of Backbench Business Committee days in the run-up to the recess and in our September sitting. I will take that away and discuss it with my right hon. Friend the Chief Whip. The hon. Gentleman also raises the important issue of adults with learning disabilities. He will be aware that the subject has serious implications for the charities sector, with many organisations facing significant bills should what he suggests be the solution on back pay. The Government are looking carefully at the issue, which could be a useful subject for a Backbench Business Committee debate—he could apply to himself for that. I know the Government would welcome any debate on a resolution to this very tricky issue.
Mr John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Being a footballing aficionado yourself, Mr Speaker, you will know that England’s progress in the World cup has spawned a patriotic, heartwarming display of flags in homes across the nation. It is time that Government caught up with the people. The Department for International Trade was the first this morning to raise the cross of St George. Will the Leader of the House arrange for a Minister to come here to assure us that all Government buildings will fly the flag, as this is an urgent matter? You know that this is about even more than sport. When that which unites us is greater than any division, communal pride and shared endeavour nourish the national interest and nurture the common good.
Andrea Leadsom
My right hon. Friend is never short of things to say about anything, which is a great relief to the House. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, it is her intention to fly the England flag over Downing Street not only today, but next year when the women’s world championships take place. That is important, and I entirely support the equality there, but I also encourage all other Whitehall Departments to consider whether they, too, can support England in the crucial battle this evening.
Mr Speaker
I thank the Leader of the House for what she said and the right hon. Gentleman for his characteristically eloquent, almost poetical, inquiry. In response to what the Leader of the House said on the Government’s behalf, I am keen that the House shows its support for the England team in the World cup, as I would be if any of the other home nations were competing, as I hope that they will be in 2022. I have therefore decided that the House of Commons will indeed fly the St George’s flag for the next England game, which will be on Monday 2 July or Tuesday 3 July, dependent on the outcome of today’s match against Belgium. I know that I speak for the whole House in wishing the three lions the best of luck tonight.
Mr Speaker
I have been mugging up on the hon. Gentleman’s illustrious local government career over the past half an hour. Llwchwr and Lliw unitary district council benefited from the hon. Gentleman’s membership of it between 1972 and 1979, when he was an august lecturer at Swansea University. I am sure the hon. Gentleman is pleased to be reminded of that important part of his distinguished career, and the House is now also aware of it.
Mr Sheerman
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I also thank all the people who put together that great exhibition, from which we will all benefit. Quite soon, we ought also to celebrate the emancipation of working-class men—men without property—who waited a long, long time to get the vote. It was only in 1892 that Kier Hardy was the first Labour MP elected—ironically for West Ham.
I have a very serious question about health. Yes, we have had some interesting and positive news about there being more money for the health service, but may we have a focused debate on the way in which so many health trusts and communities are blighted by bad private finance initiatives? They are not going to go away and many areas, including Huddersfield, will never overcome the barriers that we have to good health provision until someone sorts out the PFI burden.
Andrea Leadsom
I heartily agree with you, Mr Speaker: were any of the other nations of the United Kingdom in the World cup, we would of course all be shouting for them. I absolutely agree with that. I also wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Gentleman that we should celebrate the right of working-class men to get the vote. I am afraid that that is slightly overshadowed, albeit understandably, by the first women getting the vote, but he is nevertheless right to point out the significant triumph of working-class men getting the vote in that same Act. I join him in commending them.
The hon. Gentleman raised an important point about health and the issues relating to PFIs and what they have done. I remember that when I was a Back-Bench member of the Treasury Committee, we published a widely viewed report, which included a wide range of participation, on PFI and some of the horrors of how it had damaged finances, not only in the health sector but in schools and so on. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that great efforts were made to see what could be done to ensure that future PFIs did not suffer from the same problems. I encourage him to raise the issue at Treasury questions next Tuesday, because although he asked about PFIs for hospitals, it is the Treasury that can actually influence what happens with PFIs, both retrospectively and going forward.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
I draw the House’s attention to the fact that Tottenham or ex-Tottenham players are scoring almost all the goals in the World cup.
I wish to raise a serious point: the impending closure of the Swaminarayan School in Neasden means that 1,000 pupils and their parents will lose the school of their choice, and Hindu education in north-west London will be extremely damaged as a result. Will my right hon. Friend find time in the Government agenda for a debate on religious education, because parents should be able to choose the type of education that they wish for their children?
Andrea Leadsom
My hon. Friend raises an important constituency matter. I encourage him to seek an Adjournment debate about the particular school he mentioned. The need for parental choice is of course absolutely key. However, I am sure he would join me in celebrating the fact that now, overall, 1.9 million more pupils are in good or outstanding schools than in 2010, and 89% of schools in England are now rated as good or outstanding, up from 68% in 2010. This Government have taken education in a good and strong direction, including in respect of parental choice, but I encourage my hon. Friend to seek to speak to Ministers directly.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Can we have a statement on the Government’s support for business? I note that the Leader of the Conservatives in the Welsh Assembly has resigned following his inflammatory remarks about Airbus after it expressed its reasonable concerns about Brexit. Who would have thought that senior Conservatives would turn their back on business?
Andrea Leadsom
The hon. Gentleman will know that it is this Government and it is the Conservatives who, over the years, have always backed businesses. We have presided over lowering corporation tax rates to ensure that businesses are more competitive and presided over reducing regulation that creates enormous burdens for businesses. As I said to the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) when she made her accusations about business in the run-up to Brexit, it is this Government who have been listening to businesses all the way through. It is the reason why we have sought an implementation period for our departure from the European Union to ensure that there is continuity for business. That is vital. There is enormous engagement going on, and that will continue to be the case as we seek a good trade deal that works for businesses in the UK as well as for those in the EU 27.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
On Saturday, Forres will host the European pipe band championships for the final time. Every year since 2013, when it was first held, more than 20,000 visitors have gone to Grant park for this event, and the natural amphitheatre makes it very highly regarded by competitors from around the world. Can we have a debate on the success of piping at Forres, which will also allow us the opportunity to congratulate the army of volunteers who have put in so much effort to make this a truly world-class event?
Andrea Leadsom
As ever, my hon. Friend is raising what sounds like an excellent constituency event. May I particularly commend him, because, as an assistant referee, he could right now be taking part in the World cup, but he has chosen instead to be here in this place representing his constituency? I join him in congratulating all those involved in the European pipe band championships. I know how successful they have been with countless hard-working volunteers. More than 100 bands from across the world are due to attend on Saturday. I do wish them all a fantastic day.
David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
It is really not good enough simply to cancel the Swansea Bay lagoon and put the whole issue of lagoon technology for renewable energy at risk. North Wales also has proposals for a lagoon, which, following the Hendry review, is now completely up in the air. Will the Minister give time for a debate on whether lagoon technology has a future?
Andrea Leadsom
The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government have looked very carefully at the issue of the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, and at the other projects as well. As he will be aware, the Swansea Bay proposal would cost £1.3 billion to build, but would have produced only around 0.15% of the electricity that we use each year, which is a capital cost more than three times as much per unit of electricity as Hinkley Point C. Therefore, it simply was not good value for the taxpayer.
However, I stress that this Government have been absolutely committed to success in Wales, as demonstrated, I think, by abolishing tolls on the Severn bridge by the end of 2018; by the city and growth deals that have been signed for Cardiff and Swansea; by the deals that are being negotiated for north Wales; by the Government’s willingness to look at a deal for mid-Wales as well; and by the £150 million for the Swansea Bay city deal, which will deliver £1.3 billion of investment to the region and 9,000 jobs. This Government are fully committed to the success of Wales commensurate with good value for taxpayers’ money.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Next Friday, 63 Bills will be offered for Second Reading. None of them will be debated. Four of them are in my name: one to end voter fraud; another to abolish hospital car parking charges; another to have a Business of the House Committee; and another to have an independence day bank holiday on 23 June. A senior Whip will jump up and object to all those Bills. It is a complete farce. Does the Leader of the House agree that the private Member’s Bill system needs reform, and that the Government will continue to block every private Member’s Bill that does not have a Second Reading debate?
Andrea Leadsom
The Government are fully committed to the success of both the process and the reality of private Members’ Bills. The number of PMBs passed under this Government and the coalition Government far exceeds that of the last Labour Government. In the 2005 Parliament, 22 private Members’ Bills received Royal Assent. In 2010, 31 private Members’ Bills received Royal Assent; and if we include the 2015 to 2017 Parliament, the number is more than double that achieved in 2005. There is no question but that there are some very important private Members’ Bills, including the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation and Liability for Housing Standards) Bill of the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) and the Stalking Protection Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston). These are very important measures that the Government are pleased to support. The Select Committee on Procedure reviewed the PMB process in the last Parliament and the Government responded to its reports. Should the Committee choose to look further at the PMB process, the Government and I will of course look closely at its recommendations.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
On the football theme, with a German husband, obviously last night was fairly traumatic in our household, although it does spare me from having to watch another several weeks of football. Quite unexpectedly for Conservative Members, let me say that we wish the England team well. They are having great success and it is great to see them not suffering from being put away in military camps, as has been the case in the past.
On a serious note, the scandal in Gosport has again raised the issue of whistleblowers and their importance to patient safety. May we have a debate in Government time on the reform of the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998? The legislation is 20 years old and frankly does not provide any protection to whistleblowers; when they come forward in good faith, they discover that they are throwing their careers down the pan. That is wrong and it is dangerous.
Andrea Leadsom
With regards to the hon. Lady’s remarks about the football, may I say that every cloud has a silver lining?
Andrea Leadsom
I did say that I felt very sorry for the Germans; the hon. Lady can pass that on to him. I thank her for confirming that she and Members of the Scottish National party wish the England team luck. That is no surprise to hon. Members across the House. We are a family with ancient, historic, cultural and familial links that we should celebrate at all times.
The hon. Lady raised an incredibly important point about the Gosport review and the independent panel’s report. As she knows, the Health Secretary came to update the House on the findings of the Gosport review as soon as he was able last week. I am sure that there will be further reports from Ministers on how we intend to tackle the matter, but the hon. Lady makes a very sensible suggestion, which I encourage her to raise directly with Ministers.
Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)
It has been a particularly unpleasant summer for some residents in towns such as Thatcham and Newbury, and in the area of my constituency neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma), because of illegal encampments by Travellers. Would my right hon. Friend consider an opportunity in this House for colleagues who have experienced similar problems in their constituencies to raise the need for a change in the law? The situation is totally unacceptable for law-abiding people whose lives have been made a misery by the selfish and illegal actions of these individuals.
Andrea Leadsom
My right hon. Friend raises an issue that, unfortunately, crops up time and again in this place, as many hon. and right hon. Members have grave concerns about illegal Traveller encampments in their constituencies. He will be aware that we have recently had debates on the subject, both in this Chamber and in Westminster Hall. The Government are now looking at whether there are sufficient powers and it is a matter of enforcement, or whether more powers are needed to enable local authorities to deal effectively with what is a really serious problem for local communities.
Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)
Last week I asked the Leader of the House to outline how the Government would update us on progress on their serious violence strategy. She was not entirely sure on how but said that they would do so. As part of the early intervention and prevention aspect of the work, can we have a debate on adverse childhood experiences?
Andrea Leadsom
I would certainly support a debate on adverse childhood experiences. In fact, someone I have worked with for many years who is a real expert in that subject was here only this week for a Select Committee inquiry into adverse childhood experiences and the impact on early brain development. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise the very serious issue of the impact of appalling early experiences on young people who then find themselves on the conveyor belt into a life of crime. I would welcome a debate on that. I have said to her that Ministers will come forward with further updates, and that remains the case. If she wants to write to me, I can take it up directly with Ministers on her behalf, but in the meantime, I strongly urge her to seek a Backbench or Adjournment debate to raise the issue of ACEs.
Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con)
Responsible waste management is vital to increase recycling and reduce landfill, but it ought not to be a tortuous or overly expensive process for small businesses. Some create very little waste, which can be managed alongside domestic refuse at no additional cost to the business or the environment. Can we have a debate on Bolton Council’s extreme interpretation of the law, which results in less recycling, more landfill, small business fines and harassment?
Andrea Leadsom
My hon. Friend is quite right to raise that important constituency issue. Businesses are responsible for finding their own waste operator, so that they can choose one whose charges fit their budget. Some councils collect business waste but will charge for that. He is right that we intend to review how business waste is handled. We want businesses to recycle more and to play their part in reducing waste to landfill. More detail of that will be in the resources and waste strategy that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will publish in autumn.
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
In terms of the loyalty test, this London Scot always supports England—except when they play Scotland. I hope the whole House wishes the Prime Minister well in negotiations with Monsieur Barnier; it is not the best day to be in Brussels, but that is another matter.
Can we have a statement from the Ministry of Justice on the operation of first-tier tribunals, especially with regard to section 24 powers, which appear to be failing so badly? I have written and have failed on four occasions so far to secure an Adjournment debate on the subject, so anything the Leader of the House can do would be very much appreciated.
Andrea Leadsom
I thank the hon. Gentleman for putting on the record his views on the football prowess of the United Kingdom. Perhaps we ought to have a survey of all Members, so that everyone can put their priorities on the record. This is fast becoming a serious and important issue.
The hon. Gentleman raises a key point about first-tier tribunals. There are Justice questions on 10 July, and I encourage him to raise that directly with Ministers then, or if he wants to write to me, I can take it up on his behalf.
Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)
In my constituency and across the wider NHS Grampian area, there has been a surge in deaths over the past year linked to the use of the drug alprazolam, a tranquiliser that is commonly marketed under the brand name of Xanax. The drug is not available on the NHS, but an investigation by my local newspaper, the Evening Express, showed that the drug can be obtained within minutes online. The rate of fatalities in north-east Scotland has been described as a public health emergency, and while the biggest rises were in areas such as Grampian, Police Scotland has said that this is a national problem that needs to be addressed. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the House must debate this urgent matter?
Andrea Leadsom
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that important and concerning issue. In Scotland, health and justice are devolved matters. However, misuse of drugs such as Xanax, which is the brand name for alprazolam, is a cause for concern across the whole of the UK, and we remain vigilant to take any measures deemed necessary to address those issues. For example, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency is currently running a behavioural change campaign to warn people about the dangers of buying drugs online. He is right to raise that, and I encourage him to seek an Adjournment debate, so that he can take it up directly with Ministers.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
Last week, I attended a fantastic assembly at St Vincent’s RC school in Norden in my constituency, and I pay tribute to all the work done by the pupils and teachers on the Send My Friend to School “Make Schools Safe” campaign. May we have a debate in Government time on such campaigns, and on how we can help our international partners achieve sustainable development goal 4 on quality education for all?
Andrea Leadsom
I join the hon. Lady in congratulating St Vincent’s school on its work. Many young people are taking part in these fantastic campaigns. She will be aware that we will have International Development questions next Wednesday— 4 July—and I encourage her to raise the question of what more can be done directly with Ministers then.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
A recent report provided evidence that trade could be increased by £12 billion and 150,000 jobs created in the north of England if seven major ports, including Immingham in my constituency, were given free port status, which would clearly be a massive boost to the economy post-Brexit. Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate in Government time to explore these great opportunities?
Andrea Leadsom
I am certainly interested in the issue of free ports, and my hon. Friend is right to raise the potential of ports such as Immingham. We will have Transport questions on Thursday 5 July, when he may like to take that up directly with Ministers.
Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)
The Transport Committee’s report out today confirms that regions such as Yorkshire and the Humber have not received a fair share of rail funding for years and that the formula used by the Department for Transport is unfair to northern regions. May we have a debate in Government time on what exactly the Government will do to remedy this unfair situation and give regions such as mine the transport system that we deserve?
Andrea Leadsom
We in the Government are embarking on the biggest rail investment programme since the Victorian era. Thanks to our £48 billion investment in the rail network, we are rebuilding stations up and down the country, improving the carbon footprint and enabling many hundreds of thousands more passengers to use the rail network. The hon. Lady raises a very important issue about the fairness of infrastructure spending in the different regions. She will be aware that we have Transport questions on 5 July, when she may want to raise this specific issue with Ministers.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)
Last week, along with several other Members of the House, I was able to attend the royal highland show. May we have time in this place for a debate to allow us to congratulate the organisers of the show, particularly the food producers, farmers and other exhibitors who put on such a fantastic show of British farming?
Andrea Leadsom
I absolutely join my hon. Friend in congratulating all those involved in the royal highland show. Every year, the show demonstrates the very best of the UK’s world-leading food and drink sector. It is a testament to all those involved that such large crowds flock to it. I gather that nearly 200,000 visitors attended this year’s show. There is no doubt that it is the premier fixture in Scotland’s farming calendar, and I understand that it generates over £200 million for businesses.
Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)
Mr Speaker, I warmly welcome your announcement about flying the St George’s flag over this building next week. I, too, was sorry to see Germany exit the World cup yesterday, mainly because I had Germany in the parliamentary Labour party sweepstake.
Will the Leader of the House join me in welcoming the official opening of the Denby Dale and District men’s shed in my constituency recently? The volunteers there are absolutely phenomenal. Whether it is to go along and do a few crafts or simply have a cuppa and a chinwag, these men’s sheds and men’s clubs do wonderful work, particularly in addressing the issue of men’s mental health and social isolation. May we have a debate on what men’s clubs bring to our society?
Andrea Leadsom
I am deeply sorry that the hon. Lady has lost her stake. I am sure it was not too great a stake, but she probably had high hopes after drawing Germany in that sweepstake.
The hon. Lady raises an incredibly important point. Men’s sheds do amazing work to try to improve men’s mental health. This is often forgotten, but as we know, a key reason for death, particularly in young men, is suicide due to mental health problems. I absolutely join her in congratulating all those involved in the men’s shed work in her constituency, and I wish them every success with it in the future.
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)
Nether Whitacre Parish Council in my constituency has highlighted the challenges its rural villages face from non-compliance with planning regulations in the green belt, saying that regular abusers of the planning system ignore requests from the local planning authority to remove temporary buildings. Following the recent Government consultation, can we have an urgent debate on how planning enforcement powers can be strengthened to further protect our countryside from unauthorised development?
Andrea Leadsom
My hon. Friend is a strong campaigner for his area. As he knows, local planning authorities have a wide range of enforcement powers and strong penalties for non-compliance available to them to tackle unauthorised development. It is for them to decide how and when to use those powers, but as we have discussed, the recent consultation sought views on what, if any, further powers might be useful, particularly to help bring proceedings to quicker conclusions. We are looking at the responses to the consultation, and an announcement on the way forward will be made as soon as possible.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
The Transport Committee, which published its report this morning, says that the
“Government must increase support for regions short-changed on rail spending”.
It also criticises the cancellation of rail electrification schemes. With the cancellation carnage at TransPennine and the already cut-down service under the emergency timetable from Northern Rail, and given that the Prime Minister has not yet responded to the One North campaign by northern newspapers, can the Secretary of State for Transport please come to the House to give a statement about what is happening about rail in the north?
Andrea Leadsom
The hon. Lady is right to speak up for her area. She will recall that the Secretary of State for Transport was here just last week for an Opposition day debate to talk about the rail situation, and he was keen to answer all questions pertaining to rail. We have Transport questions next Thursday, on 5 July, and I encourage her to take this up directly with him then.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
I want to pick up on the point made by my hon. Friend—he really should be right honourable by now—the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) about childcare. No sooner will we come back from the conference recess than Scottish schools will go off on their October mid-term breaks, sometimes for two weeks. I would be very grateful if the Leader of the House were willing to meet me and others with an interest to see how the family room could be used for that purpose, rather than, as often happens, as a mobile office or, indeed, a World cup viewing room. If we could have that meeting, it would be appreciated.
Andrea Leadsom
As I said to the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), I am keen to help provide a solution to this problem and would be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends to discuss it further.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
I drew Panama in our office sweepstake, so my Sunday was not so good—my cup doth not runneth over. As the World cup continues, will the Leader of the House join me in celebrating Bristol’s Easton Cowboys and Cowgirls, who have grown from a mates’ football kick-about to a loved Bristol sports club, social organisation and campaigning force, showing the world, through their activities, how football truly helps both world peace and community spirit?
Andrea Leadsom
I would have thought that the hon. Lady would be delighted to lose her stake, because it enabled England to face Belgium this evening, but nevertheless I am of course delighted to join her in congratulating her local community football group. It is true that sports of all sorts, but particularly football clubs, can engage young people and communities and do so much for their local communities. I wish them every success.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I, too, send my best wishes to the English team in the World cup and welcome your initiative, Mr Speaker, to fly the flag. Across Northern Ireland, flags are flying everywhere—for a different reason, of course, but none the less they are flying, and our support for the English team is there.
Recent research conducted by Christian Solidarity Worldwide demonstrates that more than 1,000 people were killed in attacks by Fulani herder militia in farming communities in the five months between 1 January and 1 May. The Fulani herder militia is believed to have murdered more men, women and children in 2015 to 2017 than Boko Haram. The 2017 global terrorism index estimates that 60,000 people have been killed in the violence since 2001, hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced and crops and livestock worth billions have been destroyed. There is concern that there could be full-scale civil war. If ever there was a need for a debate, this is the time.
Andrea Leadsom
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his confirmation of support for the England football team. That was not in any doubt, but we are grateful for the confirmation. He raises, as he often does, an appalling example of human rights abuses, which are of grave concern to the House wherever and whenever they occur around the world. He may like to take the matter up at International Development questions on Wednesday 4 July, in order to hear directly from Ministers what the United Kingdom can do to protect the human rights of people around the world.
Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)
As one of 38 Co-operative MPs in the House—we are the third-largest party grouping—I look forward to celebrating Co-operatives Fortnight, which kicks off on Monday, by visiting the Hawthorn housing co-operative in my constituency. I have been reading with great interest the Co-operative UK’s publication about the co-operative economy in 2018, which highlights the huge breadth of co-operative movements and mutual societies across the United Kingdom. Will the Leader of the House consider holding a debate in Government time about the huge importance of co-operative mutuals for the growth of our economy in the UK?
Andrea Leadsom
I absolutely applaud the hon. Gentleman for raising the value of the co-operative movement across the UK. I am a big fan of credit unions, which operate on a similar basis; they do so much to help people learn to save as well as borrow. The work that they do is incredibly valuable. I join him in congratulating the co-operative movement on all its efforts, and encourage him to seek a Back-Bench debate, so that he may share with other hon. Members their own experiences.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
My constituent, Ms Tomasiak, applied for an EU registration certificate last May, after which her documents, including a Polish passport, were lost when the Home Office erroneously sent them to the wrong address. May we therefore have a statement or a debate in Government time regarding the issue of compensation payments, with a view to reconsidering why there is no process to forward-fund the costs incurred by families challenged by financial circumstances, in obtaining photographs and replacing documents, and their travel expenses and loss of earnings, in similar such cases?
Andrea Leadsom
The hon. Gentleman raises a very concerning constituency issue, and he is absolutely right to do so. I know that Home Office Ministers would be concerned to hear about it, and I encourage him to take it up directly with them; or if he wants to write to me directly, I can do so on his behalf.
Adult Social Care: Long-term Funding
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
We now come to the first Select Committee statement. Mr Clive Betts will speak on the joint report of the Health and Social Care Committee and the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee for up to 10 minutes, during which, I remind the House, no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of his statement, the Chair will call Members to put questions on the subject of the statement and call Mr Clive Betts to respond to these in turn.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
I begin by thanking the Backbench Business Committee for allocating time today for me to present the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee and Health and Social Care Committee joint report on long-term funding of adult social care.
In 2017, the then Communities and Local Government Committee undertook a lengthy inquiry into adult social care. We concluded that spending on social care would need to rise significantly in the coming years, and that after successive failed attempts at reform, political parties across the spectrum needed to be involved in the process of reaching a solution. With that in mind, we returned to the issue in a joint inquiry with the Health and Social Care Committee, aiming to identify funding reforms that would be supported by the public and politicians, and to feed its findings into the Green Paper. I thank all members of both Committees for the constructive role they have played, and particularly the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, who is so knowledgeable on these matters and with whom it has been a genuine pleasure to work on this inquiry.
To find out the public’s views on how social care should be funded, we commissioned a citizens’ assembly, which I understand is the first held by the UK Parliament. Following a process of learning, deliberating and decision making, which took place over two weekends in April and May, a representative sample of nearly 50 members of the public was asked how best to fund social care. We have listened carefully to the assembly members’ views. They have been vital in informing our thinking, and are reflected throughout our report. We have taken the unusual step of specifically addressing our recommendations to both sides of the political divide, asking that both Government and Opposition Front Benchers accept them.
What are the challenges facing social care and what funding is required to address them? The critical state of social care and the very serious consequences for people who receive care, and those who do not, and their unpaid carers and families, as well as the NHS, is well documented. The evidence was clear that the combination of rising demand and costs combined with reductions in funding to local authorities has placed the social care system under very great and unsustainable strain.
Despite the welcome additional funding provided by the Government in recent years, local authorities face a funding gap of around £2.5 billion in 2020. This has been confirmed by the National Audit Office, the King’s Fund and the Nuffield Trust, as well as the Local Government Association. The consequences are extremely serious and widespread, leading to people going without the care they need, and the time and quality of care not being sufficient for many who receive it, leading to unpaid carers having to step into the breach and placing significant pressures on care providers and the care workforce.
A witness to the inquiry, Sir Andrew Dilnot, chair of the 2011 Dilnot commission, told us that the system was consequently now at risk of “fairly significant disaster”, which were very strong words indeed. We concluded that considerable extra funding in the order of many billions of pounds would be needed in the coming years for the following reasons.
We need to fill the funding gap that I just referred to and we then need to provide additional funding to meet future demand. The personal social services research unit at the London School of Economics projects that spending on both social services for older people and younger adults will more than double by 2014, even without the improvements to the service that we suggest. It is also important to meet the care needs of a wider group of people—not just those whose needs are critical or substantial, but those who have moderate needs that are currently largely unmet. Age UK estimates that around 1 million who need care currently do not get it. Finally, and very importantly, we need to ensure that the care provided is good care from a stable, well-paid and well-trained workforce and viable care providers.
The difficult question for the Government and the Opposition to grapple with is where the additional funding for adult social care and social care for people of a working age with disabilities should come from, what it should be spent on, and how the care should be delivered. On care provision, we are strongly of the view that the responsibility for the delivery of social care should continue to rest with local councils at a local level. Social care provision should not, however, be seen in isolation. There is a need for better integration at a local level particularly within the NHS, as well as housing services. After all, most people receiving care get it in their homes. Integration should be seen not as a matter of bureaucratic convenience, but as a way of improving the care that individuals receive. The integrated care partnerships and health and wellbeing boards have an important role to play in that.
Our citizens’ assembly members expressed strong support for a social care system that, like the NHS, is free at the point of use. We acknowledge that this would increase costs substantially and be unlikely to be affordable immediately. We believe, however, that it is an ultimate objective for the personal care element of social care to be delivered free to everyone who needs it, and that accommodation costs should continue to be paid on a means-tested basis. This direction of travel should begin with the extension of free personal care to those deemed to have critical needs.
Now for the important question: where should the funding come from? Given the scale of the additional funding that is likely to be needed, which I have explained, we recommend that a combination of different fundraising measures are needed at local and national levels. At a local level, there should be a continuation for the foreseeable future of the existing local government revenue streams. We recommend that, in 2020, this funding is enhanced through using the additional revenue from 75% business rate retention, rather than the Government’s proposal to use the money to replace grants such as the public health grant. In the medium term, we recommend a reform of the council tax valuations and bands to bring them up to date. As other funding streams develop, the contribution from council tax and business rates to social care funding could fall, allowing councils to better fund other important services.
However, local government funding will only ever be one part of the solution for social care, given the scale of the challenge. It is clear that extra revenue will also need to be raised nationally to be spent on local provision. The citizens’ assembly was strongly in favour of any extra taxation being earmarked, wanting the clear assurance that the money raised would be spent on social care. We therefore recommend that an additional earmarked contribution, described as a “social care premium”, should be introduced, to which employers, as well as employees, would contribute. For fairness, it would be paid on earnings above a threshold and with the current national insurance limit lifted. We suggest that this premium could either be as an additional element to national insurance, which would ensure the accountability desired by the public and the citizens’ assembly, to be placed in an appropriately named and dedicated fund, and regularly and independently audited, or be paid into independent insurance funds, similar to the German model.
We strongly believe that a funding solution must fall fairly between generations and therefore recommend that those aged under 40 should be exempt from the social care premium, and that it should also be paid by those who are still working after the age of 65. We also recommend that a specified additional amount of inheritance tax should be levied on all estates above a certain threshold and capped at a percentage of the total value. This is intended to avoid the catastrophic costs for some individuals, who currently have to lose the vast majority of their assets, including their homes, to pay for care costs. It would pool the risk and spread the burden more fairly, a key recommendation of the citizens’ assembly. My view is that, if everyone who can afford it pays something, no one should have to lose everything.
After successive attempts at reform, the forthcoming social care Green Paper must be the catalyst for achieving a fair, long-term and sustainable settlement. It also ought to recognise the care needs of those of working age with disabilities, as well as the care needs of the elderly. To ensure that, we recommend that our work should now be taken forward by a cross-party parliamentary commission.
I say, on behalf of both Select Committees, to Government and Opposition Front Benchers that if we, on a cross-party, cross-Committee basis, can unanimously reach difficult decisions and make clear recommendations, can they not do the same? Use our proposals as a basis for building the wider consensus that we need to create a long-term, sustainable funding solution for those who need care now and in the future.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)
I thank my co-Chair for the dedicated work that he has put into this joint report, as well as all members of both Committees and our wonderful supporting Committee teams. Like him, I thank not only all those who took part in the citizens’ assembly and those who advised and supported them, but the very many people, and their loved ones, who depend on social care, who wrote to us and whom we visited on our Committee visit. They told us moving stories about the level of unmet need and the consequences, both for themselves and their families.
The situation could not be more stark. As we approach the 70th anniversary of the NHS next week, would my hon. Friend say more about the impact on the NHS if we fail to address the unmet need in social care?
Mr Betts
I thank the hon. Lady, the Chair of the Health Committee—I think on this occasion, my hon. Friend, because we have worked on a friendly basis on this inquiry. She is absolutely right. One of the important recommendations is about trying to extend the scope of care provision to include those with moderate needs. If we provide care for them, it is quite likely that we will stop them getting into the substantial and critical phase and ending up in hospital in the first place. In terms of the NHS, it is about stopping people getting into hospital by getting them proper care and having care available for people in hospital, so that they do not have delayed discharges. In those two ways, that can be beneficial. Of course, we can also join up services. Can the NHS district nurse who goes into someone’s home and looks at their needs not assess their care needs at the same time? Can we not get that sort of joined-up approach?
It was remiss of me not to thank the staff, as the hon. Lady did, and I will name Laura and Tamsin. The work they did on this was exceptional. To produce a report of this quality in the time available was absolutely first-class, and we should congratulate them on it.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
I thank the Chairs and the members of the Select Committees for their work on the report, and my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) for his statement introducing it. The key points from the report for me are that in its present state the care system is not fit to respond to current needs let alone predicted future needs, and that spending on social care needs to rise. Next week is the 70th birthday of social care, as well as of the NHS, but there is no funding settlement and no celebrations for social care. Does my hon. Friend agree that the time for a funding settlement for social care is now or at least soon, not years down the road?
Mr Betts
Yes, I completely agree with that. We have got to get on with it. If we agreed everything now, it would probably take two or three years to put it in place. That is why we suggested the stop-gap measure of the extra business rates in 2020 being made available for local authorities. We thought that was a very important solution. If we get it right, we can have stability for the long term. The Germans did this over 20 years ago. They have a stable system and it works. They have just put extra money into it with general public support, because everyone trusts the system. That is the position we have to get to.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
I, too, pay tribute to the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) for the way he chaired the Committee; it was very collegiate and consensual, which really helped us in our deliberations. He may remember that when we visited a care home the residents and families of those receiving care accused this Parliament of a lack of courage for not having addressed this difficult issue for so long. Does he agree that there is a real sense of urgency? When the Government produce a Green Paper in the autumn, we need to get on with it. There is no reason why we cannot move this forward quite quickly. As he said, Germany has done it since 1994. Frankly, it shames this country that Germany has had a good system in place for so long, while we have not.
Mr Betts
I completely agree. If we are still talking about this in two or three years’ time we will have failed. We have to get some decisions and get on with it. As politicians, we are often very good at coming up with ways to spend money. In this report we have actually come up with ways to raise money, which is the difficult part. We have done the heavy lifting for both the Government and the Opposition Front Benches. We now say, “We’ve handed the pass over to you. Get on and run with it and make it work.”
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
I, too, welcome this cross-Committee report and note that it aspires to provide free personal care, as we have in Scotland, and to extend it to those in need under 65, which we will start next April. While that has significant costs, does the hon. Gentleman agree with the assessment of the Scottish experience by the King’s Fund and the Health Foundation, which suggested that overall it saves money, because people can remain in their own homes rather than care homes and rather than being admitted to hospital?
Mr Betts
I saw the King’s Fund report and I have seen the analysis. That was an aspiration eventually. However, the Select Committees’ felt that the immediate pressures of the funding gap, which will grow if we do not do anything about it—because of the demographics over the next few years, the fact that we are not meeting the needs of those with moderate care needs, the fact that we are not paying our workforce properly and that many care providers are in financial difficulties—mean that those issues have to be addressed and then, eventually, we can move on to the free care aspiration set out in the report over the longer period.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his statement, and both Select Committees on their report. He said that if everyone contributes something, we should be able to sort out the funding problem. He put great emphasis on the need for a social care premium and praised the German model. In the report, he specifically says that under 40s should be exempt from the social care premium. The argument from the older generation will be that they have paid taxes throughout their lives, so why should they be unfairly burdened? What is the experience in Germany with regard to the social care premium? Does Germany exempt people under 40?
Mr Betts
It is a difficult decision. Germany does not exempt people under 40, but there are other tweaks to the system. For example, people without children pay extra and people who are not working pay extra in retirement because they do not have an employer contribution. We have not just mirrored the German system absolutely. We have taken elements from it, which I think is quite right. Japan’s system is not dissimilar and it does restrict payments to those over 40. We have looked at different systems. It is a challenge, but in the end we felt that there were considerable pressures on younger people at this point in time: family pressures, housing pressures, job pressures. We therefore felt that to start at 40 was a reasonable benchmark, bearing in mind that for the vast majority of people it will mean that they will pay into the care system at some point in their lives.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Is it not remarkable, given the failure of successive Governments to grasp this nettle, that two cross-party Committees with Members holding widely different views and ideologies managed to agree a unanimous report? Does that not make it even more incumbent on the Government, given the acuteness of the crisis, to take this report very seriously and to implement its recommendations as quickly as possible?
Mr Betts
I completely agree with my right hon. Friend. The fundamental question is: if we can do it, why can’t they? We have done the difficult part. We have set out a framework. Those on the Government Front Bench may not want to accept every detailed element of it, but it is there to work from. It should mean that we ought to be able to get to a consensus and an agreement about what should be done in a much shorter period of time than the years the Government were perhaps initially contemplating.
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
I thank both Chairs for the very constructive nature of the inquiry and the discussions around it, which have led to the report. We need to depoliticise this issue—that is critical—and I believe we have done that in the report. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the most important parts of the report is not just the money it would raise, but how it would be delivered? Individuals who are in receipt of care can direct the payments to their loved ones, the people who know them best and can give them the best possible care. That care being delivered by the people who understand them best and love them the most will strengthen the social fabric of our communities.
Mr Betts
Yes, I completely agree. I could not refer to every specific recommendation in my statement. The hon. Gentleman is referring to paragraph 78 of the report, where it states that instead of care being delivered to people, they could receive a cash payment so their family members could do it in a way that suits them best.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on the report and on the work of the Committees to deal with this very difficult subject. In my constituency, we have a problem with nursing care homes closing and being converted into residential care homes, because of a problem with recruitment and retention of nursing staff. I am glad he mentioned that the care being given has to be good quality. Will he say how the increased funding would help with that situation and give us the nursing home beds we need?
Mr Betts
It is about getting a well-paid, well-trained workforce. NHS staff who do a similar job get paid about 29% more. I am not saying they are well paid, but clearly social care staff are not well paid. That funding gap has to be addressed and people have to be properly paid. The Committees signed up to the Unison charter for the workforce in social care.
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) on their leadership on this issue. The inquiry’s report provides incontrovertible evidence of the crisis facing social care funding. I particularly welcome the recommendation that social care should be provided to those who need it free at the point of delivery, and the very practical recommendations for raising the additional funding we so urgently need. I come to the House from a meeting of supported housing providers, which provide housing for older people in my constituency and elsewhere in Southwark. All highlighted to me the increasing numbers of referrals they receive from older people who are being made homeless and suffering problems in the private rented sector. This problem is growing. The report highlights the importance of housing for the delivery of a sustainable social care system and I wonder whether my hon. Friend might just say a little bit about that now.
Mr Betts
Absolutely. Most people receive care in their own home. The Committee’s report on housing for older people looked at the nature of the home. It showed the importance of the warmth of the home and the ability to get around the home—trip hazards and so on. Means-testing for the disability facilities grant relates to means-testing for care provision and other benefits, so they need to be properly integrated. Another recommendation in the report was that where means tests exist, they need to be joined up together.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
The economics of the sector are fluid. Does my hon. Friend agree that there has been a high turnover of ownership of care provider organisations? The Government need to monitor buyouts in the sector carefully, so that those living in care do not worry about who owns their home.
Mr Betts
Absolutely. The Committee did not discuss the ownership of care homes, but we did discuss the number of homes that had gone out of business or had been contracted back to local authorities. This is an ongoing and very real problem. We need not just a well-paid and well-trained workforce but viable care providers, so the money needs to be there for the providers as well as the workforce.
The Minister for Care (Caroline Dinenage)
I thank the Chairs, the members and the staff of both Committees, and congratulate them on producing an exceptional document. I also congratulate them on their extremely collaborative approach to their work, which is incredibly refreshing. For too long this issue has been used as a political football to be kicked around, but I am afraid it is too late for that now. We no longer have that luxury; we must reach a sufficient settlement. As other Members have pointed out, successive Governments have failed to address this issue. The Committees’ consultative, collaborative and constructive approach has been very positive and has been warmly welcomed, as, indeed, has been their engagement with the citizens’ assembly.
As has been made clear by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, we want to integrate plans for social care with the new NHS plan that the Prime Minister announced recently. It would not make sense to publish it before the NHS plan has even been drafted, so our Green Paper will be published at the same time as the plan. It will cover the Government’s proposals on a wide range of social care issues, including, but not limited to, the need for the social care market to be sustainable for the future. It will also build on policies such as our “Carers action plan”: we will, for example, consult on proposals to provide better support for unpaid carers.
The report will be incredibly valuable to our work. It will enhance our plans for the Green Paper, and will ensure that it can offer people a sustainable future and the knowledge that as they approach their later years, they will do so in security and safety and with quality provision.
Mr Betts
Again, I thank all the members and staff of the Committees for their work. The challenge now lies with the Government and with Ministers. There should not be any more long grass out there to kick things into. We want to see Government and Opposition working together and starting to make the difficult decisions that need to be made for the benefit of the people who need the care, both the elderly and those of working age.
Leaving the EU: Parliamentary Scrutiny
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
I thank the Backbench Business Committee for giving me the opportunity to present the sixth report of the Exiting the European Union Committee, on parliamentary scrutiny and approval of the withdrawal agreement and negotiations on a future partnership. I am grateful to all those who gave evidence to the Committee, including two Ministers from the Department for Exiting the European Union—and it is good to see a third here today. I am also grateful to the terrific team who support us in our work, and to all the members of the Committee. On occasion we are not able to agree on everything, but that is the nature of Brexit.
The Committee thought that it would be helpful to the House to set out the task that will face us as the process of leaving the European Union unfolds, and that is what the report covers. Let me say first that time is very tight. Even if we secure a withdrawal agreement and a political declaration at the October Council—and that must now be in doubt—the Committee will expect to take evidence from the Secretary of State as soon as possible thereafter so that we can report to the House. That would probably take us to about mid-November for Parliament’s debate and meaningful vote to approve the agreement. We recommend that the debate should last at least five days, which is the amount of time that was provided in 1971 for the House to debate whether we should join the common market.
This will be a very important moment, and the Committee believes that the debate will need to be managed in a way that gives the House an opportunity to express its opinion clearly. We recommend that the Business of the House motion should make it possible for the Speaker to select a series of different amendments, and we are asking the Procedure Committee to advise on how that could best be done.
If this House and the other place approve the withdrawal agreement, the Government will introduce a withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill to give effect to it in UK law. The Bill will have to receive Royal Assent before we leave the EU, because otherwise the UK would be bound by the agreement without the legislation to implement it. That would put the country potentially in breach of international law, and would create legal uncertainty for businesses and citizens.
We could have just three to four months, or approximately 60 to 70 sitting days, in which to pass the Bill. Given that it took more than 11 months for the European Withdrawal (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to complete its passage, that is not a lot of time for the scrutiny that will be required. We then need to add to that the 21-day CRaG process—which relates to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010—for the ratification of treaties, which is likely to take place in parallel with the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill, and the time required for other Bills to do with Brexit, and statutory instruments that will need to be passed before exit day. We shall be legislating for a new immigration system, a new customs system, new systems for agricultural support, a new legal basis for management of our fisheries, and lots of other things. When we consider all that, the scale of the task becomes very clear.
Now, let us imagine for a moment that the withdrawal agreement and political declaration are not finalised at the October Council. Given where we are, that would not be surprising. Indeed, the draft conclusions from the European Council suggest that there will not be a breakthrough in negotiations today or tomorrow. On the contrary, the EU is saying that we need to speed up the process—although I would observe that it takes two to move faster—and it wants much greater clarity about what the UK is seeking for the future partnership.
The fact that, two years after the referendum, Ministers have yet to reach agreement on what kind of customs arrangements they would like with our biggest, nearest and most important trading partner reminds us how much more is still to be done. It is also a cause of growing concern to business, as we have seen in the last couple of weeks, and there is still no agreement on the backstop to prevent the return of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Today’s European Council was once billed as a “make or break” meeting on the Irish border, on which progress would be needed to keep the negotiations on track, but that does not seem likely either now.
If there is no agreement until November or the end of the year, that will leave even less time for Parliament properly to scrutinise the proposed deal and to put in place the required legislation by March 2019—and, of course, we are not the only Parliament that must approve the agreement. As the Committee heard from Guy Verhofstadt MEP last week, the European Parliament needs three months in which to consider and give its consent to the agreement before the EU can conclude it. He said that the Parliament must receive the deal by the end of this year, or it will not have enough time to vote on it by March next year.
Then we come to the meaningful vote in the House. If we approve the agreement, matters can progress, but what if we choose to place some conditions on our approval? What if we reject the agreement? What if the European Parliament rejects it? The Secretary of State has previously said that the House of Commons voting down the deal would mean the UK leaving without a deal, but the Committee does not accept that.
In considering an amendable motion, the House of Commons would have the opportunity to make its reasoning clear in any decision to reject the agreement or to place conditions on it. In such circumstances, the House would surely expect the Government to take full account, to seek to re-enter negotiations if required, and then to come back to the House with a further motion. That is why we say in our report that it is important for Parliament to be able to express its view clearly and advise the Government on how to proceed. The Government would then need to return to the House with any renegotiated text and resubmit the motion, because they cannot introduce the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill until Parliament approves the agreement.
The Committee remains concerned that the looming deadline of March next year leaves very little room for manoeuvre. We call on the Government to publish details of their intended legislative timetable, the publication dates of any White or Green Papers, and any contingency plans for handling a no-deal outcome. We reiterate the recommendation in our third report that the Government should be prepared to seek a limited extension to the article 50 period in the event that substantive aspects of the future relationship remain to be agreed, or if there is a lack of parliamentary consent to the withdrawal agreement, or if there is no deal. However, we do recognise that it is by no means certain that the EU would respond positively to such a request.
Finally, I turn to the negotiations on the future relationship. Assuming that a withdrawal agreement and political declaration is concluded, we will have only 21 months from the date of our withdrawal to the end of the transition period in December 2020 in which to turn a political declaration into legal text on the future relationship and for such a treaty—and it could be more than one treaty—to be ratified. I think we all know that the negotiators will be dealing with a task that is frankly unparalleled in its scope and complexity and in the detail that will be required. There is a possibility that this will prove insufficient time to do all that work. We therefore call on the Government to seek that a mechanism be put into the withdrawal agreement for the extension of the transition period if that is required. We also call on the Government to ensure that Parliament is given a meaningful vote on the final text of the agreement with the EU that will cover the UK-EU relationship in the years ahead.
The report says:
“The debate on the motion for approval of the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration will be one of the most significant parliamentary debates in a generation.”
We all want to do that moment justice, and I hope that our report will assist the House in doing precisely that.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr Steve Baker)
The Government are pleased to welcome the statement made by the Chairman of the Exiting the EU Committee. The Government extend our thanks to the members of the Committee for the time and consideration that they have invested in producing this report and in reflecting on the issues that the Chairman has so ably and clearly set out. I look forward to reading the report and assure the Committee and the House that a Government response will be forthcoming in the usual way.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
I thank the Select Committee Chair for his statement and for his heroic efforts to reach consensus when at times that is never going to be possible. I also endorse wholeheartedly his gratitude for the efforts of the Committee staff, who have done a fantastic job in serving the Committee.
Paragraph 17 of the report points out that Parliament currently has a role in scrutinising any EU external agreements, including trade agreements. As things stand, when we start to negotiate trade deals on our own, there is no such role for Parliament in scrutinising those deals. Is the report saying that as a result of Brexit, the important parliamentary scrutiny of trade deals will be less than it is just now?
Hilary Benn
The hon. Gentleman, who is a valued member of the Select Committee, has raised a very important point that is highlighted in the report. It is clear, leaving Brexit to one side, that there is growing wish on the part of this Parliament, and Parliaments across Europe and around the world, to have a say in approving trade deals that may be negotiated in future, because they increasingly have an impact on many aspects of our national life. It is important, as we say in the report, that Parliament can have a meaningful vote on the future trade deal that we have with the European Union when the negotiations are concluded—in time, we hope, for the end of the transition period. We also highlight the fact that it is important that Parliament is able to scrutinise any future trade deals properly, whether they are negotiated by the European Union on our behalf because we end up remaining in the customs union—the Committee has not reached a view on that issue, but it is a matter of debate in the House—or they are negotiated by the Government.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on bringing his report to the House and giving an oral statement. I hope that he does the same for all his subsequent reports. Clearly, he and his Committee are going to be very busy, especially from October onwards. What is his response to a scenario whereby either the European Parliament or the British Parliament sought to amend the withdrawal agreement while the other had approved it? What happens in those circumstances?
Hilary Benn
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. We feel pretty busy already. I cannot promise that I will always make a statement on every one of our reports, because that is in the hands of the Backbench Business Committee.
The scenario that the hon. Gentleman describes is a possibility. It is not unknown in negotiations where two parties are discussing an agreement for them to report back to their members—in this case, Members of the European Parliament and Members of the House of Commons—and then return to the table and say, “I’m sorry but it didn’t go down terribly well with the members in this respect. Can we talk about what we are going to do about this?” It is possible that that situation might arise. That is why we thought it important to set out in the report what we think ought to happen. We say that Parliament should be able to express its view—that we in Parliament should be able to offer advice— and the Government should listen to that, but clearly it would be for the Government to go back and negotiate.
This also links to the recommendation about an amendable motion. When the Secretary of State came to give evidence, I asked him, “Will the motion to approve the withdrawal agreement be amendable”, and he indicated that it would be. I think he said, “Show me a motion that can’t be”; I paraphrase. In those circumstances, Parliament might want to say, “The whole thing’s fine”, or it might want to say, “All these bits are okay but we have reservations about this, or we’d like to see that included.” My personal view is that Parliament should be entitled to do that. The view of the Committee is that Parliament should be able to offer advice to the Government and then the Government will have to respond. If the agreement is not approved—or if conditions are put on its approval—in the House, any Government, in any circumstances, on either side of the negotiations, would have to reflect on that and work out what they were going to do.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
May I ask my right hon. Friend about the section of the report dealing with the financial settlement, from paragraph 58 onwards? The House and the country have been given the impression that we are going to make a very large payment of up to €40 billion to the European Union on condition that we secure a favourable agreement about our future trading relationship. How likely is it that next March we will find ourselves obligated under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, which will be legally binding, to make the payment, yet at that point have no legal certainty at all about our future trading relationship?
Hilary Benn
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his question and for his sterling service on the Committee. That is indeed a possibility due to the way that the draft withdrawal agreement is constructed at the moment. The commitment to pay the outstanding moneys that we owe, which the Government have accepted, is part of that agreement and not conditional on what may transpire in the negotiations on the future partnership. There has been some debate on this subject; indeed, we questioned Ministers on it when they appeared before the Committee. We say in the report:
“We note that the Government has not yet secured a clause in the Withdrawal Agreement linking the financial settlement to the satisfactory conclusion of negotiations on the framework for the future relationship. We call on the Government to confirm whether the inclusion of such a clause is one of its negotiating objectives.”
We wait to see what the Government say in response. As things stand at the moment, the commitment has been made to pay the money as part of the withdrawal agreement, and it is not linked to the future partnership and the treaty negotiations on that, which we hope will be concluded by December 2020.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)
I thank the Chair and members of the Exiting the EU Committee for today’s statement and their excellent report. The Committee I chair, the Health and Social Care Committee, has been very concerned about what could happen, in the event of no deal, to the future supply of medicines and devices because of the challenges to the supply chain. Will the Chair of the Committee set out in what other areas he is seeing concerns about the lack of contingency planning being published so that we can scrutinise what is happening and prepare for the future?
Hilary Benn
Ministers have said to us that work is going on to prepare for the possibility of no deal. The Committee has previously expressed its view that a no deal outcome would be very damaging to the British economy and create a great deal of uncertainty. That is why we say in the report that we do not accept that a rejection of the deal will then automatically lead to us leaving with no deal, because it would be for Parliament, in the end, to decide whether it was prepared to leave the European Union with no deal. That would be a matter for every single one of us as Members.
I think the nearer we get to March 2019, the more there will be concern if the possibility of no deal being agreed becomes greater than it is at present. I still hope and believe that agreement will be reached because, frankly, neither side in this negotiation should contemplate with any equanimity the prospect of leaving with no deal. The consequences would be exceedingly serious, as we learned from the evidence we heard from the Port of Dover when we visited it, in terms of practical things like keeping the lorries flowing, never mind the medicines, never mind aircraft, never mind broadcasting rights, never mind data transfer. There is a very long list of questions on which people know how the system works today and they want to know how it will work once we have left, but they are very worried about what would happen if there were no deal, and my own personal view—I have expressed it in the House before—is that that is not something we should contemplate at all.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend and thank him for his forbearance in what is sometimes a very robust discussion in Committee; he is certainly masterful in seeking consensus.
The question is really around the vote in October and the content of the political declaration on the framework for the future relationship. Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a real risk of a wishy-washy, vague, motherhood-and-apple-pie political declaration in an attempt to keep the Conservative party together, rather than giving MPs a clear sense of the direction our future relationship would take? What steps does he think the Government should take to assure the House that there will be sufficient detail in that political declaration to make a meaningful vote truly meaningful?
Hilary Benn
I thank my hon. Friend for his work on the Committee. I hope he will forgive me if I do not comment on party considerations in making this statement here today, but he raises an important issue about the nature of the political declaration. We heard clearly in evidence that it will not be a treaty or draft treaty, although there was some debate when we heard from Guy Verhofstadt about whether including it as an annexe to the agreement would give it greater force. It will come down to this question: will the House think there is sufficient certainty about the nature of our future relationship on all the things I mentioned a moment ago to the Chair of the Select Committee on Health, the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), in the political declaration or not? If we approve it and there is not that certainty, the House will really be saying, “Well, let’s see what happens.”
There are two parts to this negotiation: the withdrawal agreement, which is the divorce settlement, and which is important, and our future relationship on trade, security, the fight against terrorism, foreign policy and services—80% of the British economy is services—which is the really important bit. Therefore, the more detail and the more certainty the political declaration can offer, and the more the parties to the negotiation can show they are committed to turning that into a treaty, the better it will be for Parliament as it makes its judgment.
Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his report and his very informative statement. He alluded in his comments to having some frustrations about the speed of negotiations, and attributed that not just to this side of the channel but also to the other side. Does he agree that it is time for Brussels to move aside the politics and to start thinking about the economic interests of its citizens, and to move forward in a more constructive fashion with the negotiations?
Hilary Benn
That is not directly covered in the report, but I will give the hon. Gentleman a personal view, since he asks me the question. It is going to take two to reach an agreement, and I have already made the following point publicly as Chair of the Select Committee. The Government have their red lines, and in some respects they have already turned a slightly pinker shade, for example when the Prime Minister very sensibly said, “We want to continue to co-operate on security and recognise that that will involve the remit of the European Court of Justice,” and the same has been said in respect of the agencies. In my view, the EU negotiators should not then fold their arms and say, “That’s all very difficult”; they should say, “Fine, but you’re going to have to contribute financially and accept the rules, and you won’t have a vote although you might be in the room, and you’ll have to accept any judgments made by the ECJ.” Let us consider, for example, the European Aviation Safety Authority: it is patently sensible from everybody’s point of view that we should continue to be part of it, and I think there has been one ECJ judgment in the past three years on a very technical matter.
We hear a lot about cherry-picking, too. We looked carefully in our previous report at all the different deals the EU has negotiated—with Norway, the European economic area, Ukraine, Switzerland, Canada and so on—and it could be said that all of them involve elements of cherry-picking. One person’s cherry-picking is another person’s bespoke agreement. Speaking personally, I hope there is movement on both sides, because it seems to me that that is essential if we are going to get a sensible deal for British business and the British people.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
I thank the Select Committee Chair for his statement and all the work undertaken by the Committee members. I welcome the conclusion that the Government should also commit to seeking the views of the devolved Parliaments as part of the process of seeking approval for the withdrawal Act and political declaration. Has the Select Committee taken evidence or come to any view as to whether the Joint Ministerial Committee has been an effective consultation forum previously?
Hilary Benn
We have taken some evidence previously on that question, and clearly there is currently a difficulty in respect of the withdrawal Act between the UK Government and the Scottish Government about how the powers that will come back will be used and by whom, and I hope very much that that is resolved. One of our report’s recommendations states:
“The Government should set out in detail the processes by which the views of the devolved governments and parliaments will be fed into the negotiations on the UK’s future relationship with the EU and on future trade agreements with non-EU states”,
depending on where we end up in terms of trading arrangements.
The view has been expressed to us in the past that previously there were gaps between meetings of the Committee. It is my understanding that there have been more meetings more recently, but that does not necessarily result in a unanimity of view on what is the right thing to do. My advice, in so far as it is asked for, is “If you’ve got a difference of view, it is a jolly good idea to sit around the table and try and work it out.”
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend and his Committee on an excellent report. He mentioned that there are only 21 months after the end of March next year for the so-called implementation and transition period; in fact, the report points out that there will be European Parliament elections and a new Commission and the real time for real negotiation in that period will be about 15 months. Is he confident that the Government are aware of this, and does he expect a response from the Government within two months, as is customary, to this House, so that we can look at these issues in detail before the autumn?
Hilary Benn
On my hon. Friend’s last point, the Committee does indeed hope and expect that it will receive a response from the Government in the allotted time. We have produced a number of reports, and I think there might be one report on which we are still awaiting a response, but, in fairness to Ministers, they have got a lot on. I see that the Minister smiles, and I am in my most generous mood today: they have indeed got a lot on. I am sure Ministers understand the dynamics of the change in the EU come next year, with the elections and the new Commission being formed, although to be absolutely fair, when we asked Guy Verhofstadt about this last week, as I recall, he expressed the view that he did not really think that would create a great difficulty, but we have heard different evidence from other people.
What I would say is that whether that causes the time to be truncated or not, 21 months to sort out the whole list of things that we are all aware of, and Ministers are more aware of than anybody else, is not very long bearing in mind that the other bit of the process is ratification at the end of it. To the extent that an agreement reached becomes a mixed agreement, the ratification process—unlike the withdrawal agreement, for which the process is the Council by qualified majority voting, this Parliament, the European Parliament—would involve the Parliaments of all of the member states, including regional Parliaments, and we all recall what the Parliament of Wallonia did for about three weeks in respect of the Canada trade deal. So that adds to the uncertainty and to the pressure to try to get these negotiations concluded as quickly as possible.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that suggestions of an extension of any transition period are likely to be welcomed by many sectors of our economy? In the past few weeks, businesses have lined up to express their concern about the time available to provide business continuity and to safeguard jobs.
Hilary Benn
I suspect that that is the case. Why did the Government eventually seek a transitional period? They did so because we all agreed that falling off the edge of a cliff in March next year without an agreement was not sensible for the economy. Picking up on the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) raised a moment ago, if we have not been able to conclude all the details of a treaty or treaties on the future partnership during the transitional period, what would be the logic of then falling off a cliff 21 months later? There is none. My own view is that it is increasingly likely that there will have to be a further transition period, because we are running out of time.
Let us take as an example the customs arrangements that the Cabinet is currently discussing. I think it is pretty clear that even if it reached agreement on one or other of them, there might not be time to get all of that implemented before the end of December 2020. The indications that I have seen suggest that that might not be possible. If it is not possible, or if it is not possible to reach an agreement, it clearly makes sense to extend the transition period. For that to happen, however, there has to be a clause in the withdrawal agreement to allow for such an extension. The last thing we want is to end up, in December 2020, with everyone agreeing that it would be sensible to have a bit more time, only for someone to say, “I’m really sorry, but this agreement doesn’t allow for that, so you’re out on your ear with whatever you’re holding at the time.” And that is not in the interests of the United Kingdom, is it?
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
Paragraph 19, and the right hon. Gentleman himself, has referred to the need for procedures to consult the devolved Governments on free trade deals with Europe, and indeed with non-EU countries. He has referred to the current little disagreement between Governments and Parliaments. In view of the importance of this for devolved areas and for premium Scottish products and businesses, does he think that the devolved Governments should have a place at the table when trade deals are being negotiated?
Hilary Benn
I grappled with this question when I was Environment Secretary. I would talk to my opposite number, Richard Lochhead, and he would sometimes come to Brussels and we would discuss the matter in question beforehand. However, the position always was, and remains to this day, that it is the United Kingdom as one country that is negotiating. Of course, in doing that, the United Kingdom should take account of the interests and needs of businesses in different sectors and different parts of the country, and of the particular products that the hon. Lady has referred to. As far as the current difficulty is concerned, as I observed when we had a statement from the Secretary of State for Scotland recently, there is agreement on both sides that there are 24 areas on which the two sides need to sit down and talk. I hope that that process can unfold soon and reach agreement, because if agreement can be reached on the 24 areas, there should not be a difference of principle, because this has been done by means of negotiation.
Privilege
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)
The Leader of the House has tabled a motion on the matter of privilege, which Mr Speaker has agreed should take precedence today. I call the Leader of the House to move the motion.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Andrea Leadsom)
I beg to move,
That this House notes that the Order of the House of Thursday 7 June has not been complied with; and accordingly refers the matter to the Committee of Privileges.
As I said during the debate on 7 June, the Select Committees of this House do vital work. The Government strongly support the independence of the Select Committee system. The House resolved on 7 June:
“That this House takes note of the Third Special Report of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee”,
and an Order of the House was agreed that Mr Dominic Cummings
“give an undertaking to the Committee, no later than 6pm on 11 June 2018, to appear before that Committee at a time on or before 20 June 2018”.—[Official Report, 7 June 2018; Vol. 642, c. 492.]
That order has not been complied with. In accordance with traditional practice, it is for the Leader of the House to bring forward a motion when matters of privilege are in question, in order to facilitate a decision of the House. I therefore responded to Mr Speaker’s letter yesterday to confirm that I was seeking to raise this issue as a matter of privilege.
My letter followed the Order of the House of 7 June, and the decision of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), to report the non-compliance to the House by means of a vote entry on 20 June. I also understand that my hon. Friend has consulted colleagues and that there is broad support from members of the Liaison Committee for this matter now to be referred to the Committee of Privileges. I reaffirm today the Government’s respect for the privileges of the House of Commons and our commitment to continue to uphold them, and I therefore commend this motion to the House.
Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)
I thank the Leader of the House for bringing forward this motion today. As she said, this process was initiated by the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee as a consequence of Dominic Cummings’ refusal to appear in front of the Committee when invited to do so and when a formal request had been issued by the Committee. When the House passed the motion on 7 June, this ceased to be a dispute between Dominic Cummings and the individual Select Committee and became a dispute between him and the whole House of Commons. He has refused to comply with a motion of this House to appear before a Select Committee. That motion expressed the will not just of me as Chair of the Committee and of the members of that Committee but of the whole of the House of Commons, which supported the motion.
These are incredibly serious matters. It is quite something when an individual decides that their judgment should be set above that of the democratically elected Parliament of this country, and that they have the right to disregard a motion of this House and to decide if and when they should give evidence to a Select Committee of the House and on what terms. That is unacceptable. For most people in this country, it would never get to that stage because they accept an invitation to appear before a Select Committee, and even if there are sometimes disputes about the date or the time involved, they decide to come. Anyone who holds a position of public trust—be they the holder of a public post in government or a public authority, or the leader of a company who is accountable to shareholders, investors or a broader group of stakeholders—can see that responding to a request from Parliament to explain their actions or those of their organisation is part and parcel of their job. That convention has been established, and it is increasingly important to the work of the Select Committees, whose job is not simply to hold Government Ministers to account but to pursue inquiries that are of public interest.
Our inquiry into disinformation and fake news threw up some important and serious issues that we wanted to talk to Dominic Cummings about. In some ways, however, this is not about our inquiry or the work of our individual Committee; it is about the right of Parliament to issue requests for people to give evidence to its Committees and for those requests to be complied with. The Committee of Privileges will now consider not only the conduct of Dominic Cummings and the way in which he declined our request but also the general contempt with which he treated the Committee in correspondence when he was engaging with us.
What should the rights of the House be when someone refuses to respond to a motion of the House regarding their giving evidence to a Committee? What sanctions should be applied? I believe that there has to be a final sanction—a final backstop. It is probably not for elected politicians in the House of Commons to be issuing fines and summonses or setting penalties or punishments for non-compliance, but there has to be a next step. There has to be some kind of sanction for someone who has been blatant in their behaviour and their language and in the contempt that they have shown for Parliament. This serious matter has now been referred to the Committee of Privileges, and this is bigger than just considering the response to Dominic Cummings; it now involves a wider consideration of the powers of the House when we are put in a situation such as this.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Is it not supremely telling that someone who based the whole of their Brexit campaign on the sovereignty of this place has treated it with such contempt? As the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) says, there must be proper sanctions when dealing with contempt of this seriousness.
Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)
We had a very good discussion about this issue at the Liaison Committee; I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) about the supreme irony: that the mastermind of the leave campaign, whose sole raison d’être was all about parliamentary sovereignty and taking back control, should be turning his back on this place in a show of arrogance and contempt that cannot go unmarked or unpunished.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House notes that the Order of the House of Thursday 7 June has not been complied with; and accordingly refers the matter to the Committee of Privileges.
Backbench Business
Improving Air Quality
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)
I suggest that we work on the basis of 15 minutes for opening speeches and 10 minutes for speeches thereafter.
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the Joint Report of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Environmental Audit, Health and Social Care and Transport Committees, Improving Air Quality, HC 433, and calls on the Government to adopt its recommendations as part of its Clean Air Strategy.
I very much back speakers on the previous motion in their points about contempt of Parliament when people refuse to give evidence to Select Committees.
I am grateful to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, to the Liaison Committee and to the Backbench Business Committee for granting time in this House to debate our report on improving air quality. I thank my fellow Chairs and members of the Health, Transport and Environmental Audit Committees for all their work and help; I also thank the many staff across all the Committees for helping put together the four-Committee report, which is a challenging task.
Last October, we launched a joint inquiry to consider the Government’s most recent plans for reducing levels of nitrogen dioxide. The cross-cutting inquiry examined whether the Government’s plans to cut air quality pollution were adequate. We have concluded that they are not. The UK has failed to meet our legal air quality limits since 2010, and successive Governments have failed to get a grip and improve our air quality. Air pollution is a silent killer. It is the largest environmental risk to public health, costing the UK an estimated £20 billion every year in health impacts. Air pollution affects everyone, from those driving their cars to those who walk or cycle to work—especially in the many hotspots in our inner cities.
I am not saying that the Government have failed to take any action. It is good to see that they have taken on board key recommendations in our joint report, including: consolidating the patchwork of air quality legislation; developing a personal air pollution alert system for the public; making better use of air quality data from local authorities; and making sure that those data are compatible with each other. I also very much welcome the commitments in the latest clean air strategy consultation to cut levels of particulate pollution.
Although those initial steps are welcome, they are not nearly enough. Real change requires bold, meaningful actions, which are absent from the Government’s current approach. In our report, we called for a properly resourced national support scheme to help councils struggling with air pollution. Such a scheme would require far greater cross-departmental working and joint planning—something that, as we highlighted, is severely lacking right now. In addition, we recommended a “polluter pays” clean air fund.
This is not a war on motorists. We envisioned that the fund would be paid for by the automobile industry. I do not want to punish those who bought diesel vehicles that had been recommended by previous Governments; they bought in good faith and will need time and support to rectify the mistakes and recommendations of those previous Governments. I urge the Government to re-examine their decision not to have a targeted diesel scrappage scheme.
Furthermore, we need significant efforts to speed up the roll-out of electric charging infrastructure, which must include more rapid charging points to accelerate the transition to low-emission vehicles across all our towns and cities. It is essential that people should be able not only to charge up their cars, but to do so quickly, otherwise we will not get enough people into electric cars. All that requires a new clean air Act to update and streamline existing legislation. The new legislation could also include measures to ensure that the Government are held to account on environmental issues once we have left the EU. A new clean air Act is absolutely essential, and I ask the Minister today to confirm the timescale for the introduction of such an Act.
I find it disappointing that the Government are not making the automobile industry pay for the damage it has caused. We have already been let down in this regard: when we did not get anywhere near enough compensation out of Volkswagen for the emissions scandal. I am amazed that the German Government were able to get €1 billion, while all we seem to have got are the zeros. The automobile industry has a yearly turnover of some £80 billion.
In recent tests, the majority of the latest 2017 diesel cars are almost four times above the EU’s baseline emissions limit.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
I come back to my hon. Friend’s point about Volkswagen and Germany. Would it not be ironic and extremely unfortunate if the German car industry used that €1 billion to leapfrog into clean new-energy vehicles that put them at a competitive advantage, given that there has been no similar payment that could help the UK motor industry?
Neil Parish
My hon. Friend makes a really good point. I am amazed: do British lawyers lack teeth? Do Government lawyers lack any sort of drive and ambition? It is not just Volkswagen; others out there could also contribute. If we got funds from them, those could help towards producing cleaner vehicles or helping with air quality in our inner cities and hotspots across the country. It seems so ridiculous to lose that form of money and funding.
Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)
Does the hon. Gentleman not find it extraordinary that the US Department of Justice and the state of California have brought a case against Volkswagen, which has had to pay out more than $4 billion in the United States, with six people having been indicted, yet the UK Government are being brought to the European Court of Justice for our complete inertia in tackling this criminality?
Neil Parish
The hon. Lady, a fellow Select Committee Chair, raises a very good point. What I cannot understand is that although the money is not exactly free, it is money we could get from a source separate from British taxpayers, or wherever, to help to clean up a situation created by these vehicles. I urge the Minister today to come forward with ideas about how we can get some money from the car industry, especially Volkswagen; as the hon. Lady says, the Americans seem to be somewhat more effective at that job than we are.
The “polluter pays” fund would mean that the Government could have more money available to improve public transport and speed up the roll-out of infrastructure needed for low-emission vehicles. The emissions scandal showed us that all the manufacturers were prepared to put profit above everything else, including our health, but the Government are shying away from making them pay.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that such a fund could also be used to build infrastructure for those who walk or cycle—for active transport?
Neil Parish
My hon. Friend, who chairs the Health and Social Care Committee, makes a good point. Once we have the money, there are limitless things we can do with it. The unfortunate fact is that we do not have the money at the moment. I think the Government have felt that. Walking, cycling and altering the way we go about our daily lives is all good. It is good for our health, and it gets us out of our cars.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that money would be well spent because, if we succeed in getting more people on to their bicycles or walking, it will deliver long-term savings both to physical healthcare and mental healthcare and create better communities?
Neil Parish
The hon. Lady, who chairs the Transport Committee, is absolutely right that the money would be well spent. Our health would be improved, and therefore we would save money on the NHS and we would be able to spend the money in other ways.
Why are there private individuals in this country who are prepared to bring a case against VW, yet we, as a Government, have singly failed? I would be interested if the Minister could give us some insight into why we allow private people, quite rightly, to bring a case, yet the Government are not supporting them and are not bringing a case themselves.
There is not a satisfactory system for overseeing how money is spent to improve our air quality. Our report finds that Departments are clearly failing to work together. The Government have promised some modest improvements, and I am sure the House looks forward to an update on that in the very near future, perhaps even today.
The Government response tells us that a consistent approach was taken to appraising the cost of air pollution, yet during our joint Committee hearings I was deeply concerned to learn that the then Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones), was not even aware of how much economic impact air pollution has on the UK.
It is clear that the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the Treasury, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the Department for Transport, the Department of Health and Social Care and local authorities not only need to collaborate more effectively but need to collaborate, full stop.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
Does that not bring us to probably the single most important point we will touch on this afternoon, which is the need for health and wellbeing to be included in all policies and the need for us to get out of all the different silos?
Neil Parish
I could not agree more with the hon. Lady. Not only on air quality but in food policy and agriculture policy, health needs to be considered; it needs to be considered in all these things. This can be a beacon for the way forward, but we need much more co-operation between all parts of Government and local government. We would all agree that we have to be careful that the Government do not blame local government and that local government does not blame the Government.
The Government have told us that the Green Book guidance sets out what Departments should be doing and how they should be working together, but that has clearly not worked in the past, and we have received nothing to give us confidence that it will necessarily improve. Perhaps the Minister will be able to put me right.
The clean air strategy failed to include measures to improve road transport emissions. Emissions are being dealt with in a separate strategy, which demonstrates that the Government still operate in silos. I had hoped the Government would take more substantive measures to improve cross-departmental working.
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The hon. Gentleman is making some interesting points about the public purse and joined-up thinking between Departments. He says that road emissions are not included in the clean air strategy. Does he have any comment on aviation? Does he agree with some of us on this side that it seems lamentable that, when 9,000 Londoners a year are dying from toxic air, we have just taken a decision to approve the expansion of Heathrow airport? Willie Walsh, from the parent company of British Airways, said the decision is outrageous—he actually called it BS, but I will not repeat that word here because it is unparliamentary. He said that the cost does not stack up.
Neil Parish
I understand the hon. Lady’s concern, but I will not venture into the airport air pollution problem. A lot of the air quality, certainly on the ground, has a lot to do with the extra traffic going in and out of the terminals. That also has to be dealt with. There is a lot to be done, but I do not want to get into a huge debate about the runway at Heathrow.
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Neil Parish
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, whom I consider to be my hon. Friend.
Jim Fitzpatrick
I commend the hon. Gentleman for being wise in not going down the route of debating Heathrow again. More Opposition Members supported the Heathrow national policy statement on Monday than opposed it.
Neil Parish
I welcome my hon. Friend’s statement. I will not venture further.
It is disappointing that these matters have not been addressed properly, but I look forward to the Minister’s reply. It is also disappointing that the Government are not doing enough to support local authorities that are struggling with air quality. Local authorities face real funding restrictions. Although we said that councils need to
“take ownership of delivering local solutions to local problems”
there is the question of whether it is possible to reduce air pollution significantly across the country without our national Government looking at the big picture. The existing mechanisms are not delivering the results we need.
I welcome the Government’s commitment to improving the amount of information and best practice sharing available to local authorities, but the change that is so necessary for struggling local authorities will not be achieved without substantial funding increases. That funding needs to be ring-fenced.
The High Court ruled against the 2017 NO2 plan because it was too narrow. Since then, DEFRA has instructed an additional 33 local authorities to address NO2 breaches. So far, only £1.65 million has been allocated to support those local authorities. I am sure the House will agree that that is clearly woefully inadequate, Mr Deputy Speaker. [Laughter.] Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. You changed very quickly.
We would like to see a properly resourced national support scheme for local authorities. The Government have said they might consider the additional funding requirements. I urge the Minister to make a clear statement of intent.
I am pleased to have had this opportunity to raise these issues, and I hope the House will give the Minister the oomph he needs to go away and ensure that the respective Departments heed our Committees’ joint work. The Government must grab the bull by the horns, make firm in their clean air strategy proposal and introduce a clean air Act.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), and I look forward to the speeches by my fellow Select Committee Chairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) and the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston).
I am afraid that this is a rather sorry tale of inaction and buck passing. Fault lies not with one party but with successive Governments. The efforts so far have been inadequate and have been characterised by a lack of urgency. We know the problems that poor air quality causes. It affects our health and our environment and, as has already been said, as many as 40,000 people die prematurely each year as a result of poor air quality. The elderly, the unwell and the economically deprived are those most likely to be affected. The Government estimate that poor air quality costs the UK economy £27.5 billion a year.
We also know where the problem occurs. Key pollutants include nitrogen dioxide and fine particulate matter, known as PM2.5. More than 85% of air quality zones in the UK—37 out of 43—exceeded EU nitrogen dioxide limits in 2016. They should have been compliant in 2010, and the Government think it will be 2026 before all 43 zones in the UK are compliant. The World Health Organisation tells us there is no safe level of exposure to fine particulate matter.
We know what causes poor air quality. It comes from several sources: industry, agriculture, homes, businesses and transport. Progress has been made, but it is stalling, and we are in breach of our legal obligations. Road transport is responsible for about 80% of nitrogen oxide concentrations at places in the UK that exceed legal limits, with diesel engines a significant contributor. The number of cars and vans on our roads continues to rise, and congestion has worsened, which increases pollution in itself. Although diesel cars have become less popular since the VW scandal was uncovered in 2015, for more than a decade before that the trend was in the opposite direction.
Transport also generates a significant proportion of particulate matter, from both combustion, and wear on tyres and brake pads. The Government have largely relied on cleaner vehicles to solve the problem, and limits on emissions, which are gradually tightened with each iteration of the euro standards, have helped us make some progress but not enough. Real world emissions have not fallen as promised, and renewing the fleet could take 15 years or more. Policies to accelerate this process, such as scrappage schemes, may be needed. The science, historical evidence and impact are clear, but we still have not taken the action that is needed. Three times the Government’s strategy has been found wanting by the courts, and the UK faces large fines by the EU Commission, along with other countries, for not bringing air quality within legal limits. We know the solutions that are needed, so it is shocking that successive Governments have failed to take the necessary action.
Nationally and locally there are examples of good things happening. In my own city there has been considerable investment in public transport, with major extensions to our tram network, and that was supported by the coalition Government. Last year, Nottingham’s municipal bus company introduced new biogas buses, and work has begun to retrofit its entire fleet of diesel buses by autumn 2019. Last week, on Clean Air Day, the city council launched an anti-idling campaign, mirroring similar action in other towns and cities across the UK. As I have said, the Department for Transport has supported the development of low emission buses and taxis, has regulated maritime emissions, is supporting low emission vehicles and alternative fuels, and has lead work on the development of real driving emissions standards.
So what has gone wrong—why have we not solved this problem? The first issue we found in this regard was collaboration. That is not a problem that can be fixed by central Government or local government alone—they need to work together. At present, action is too fragmented, lacks clear leadership, and is not properly costed or resourced. There are no fiscal measures that support long-term behaviour change in a meaningful way. Local authorities are already responsible for meeting air quality limits but find it difficult to make changes, partly due to lack of resources, but partly because the changes needed are politically unpalatable. Our joint Select Committee report called for ambitious, co-ordinated, cross-departmental action. Sadly, the Government’s new draft strategy says almost nothing about emissions from cars, and we are still waiting for the Department to publish its strategy “Road to Zero”. That simply does not seem very joined-up.
It is vital that we encourage the uptake of clean technologies and remove the most polluting vehicles from our roads, but the Government rejected a more ambitious target for ending the sale of petrol and diesel cars before 2040. Today, Lord Deben, chair of the Committee on Climate Change, echoed our call in the drive to meet targets on carbon emissions. There are rumours that the “Road to Zero” will water down the commitment to end sales of diesel and petrol cars even further, and I hope that this latest intervention will prompt Ministers to think again.
The Government also need to accelerate the switch to ultra low emission vehicles, and that requires a network of charging points, particularly for rapid charging, and a strategy for on-street residential charging.
Dr Huq
Does my hon. Friend agree that in London we have made significant progress, with the current Mayor bringing forward the ultra low emission zone and with the proposed toxicity charge? However, sadly, a lot of this seems to have been undermined by this week’s decision—I know she voted the right way—to have an extra runway in Heathrow. People in west London are lamenting that, and I regret that a lot of the good work in her report was ignored by the Government’s national policy statement.
Lilian Greenwood
I thank my hon. Friend. She rightly says that a lot of work has been done in London, yet it still faces a huge challenge on air quality. That is one reason why our Select Committee report on the airports NPS calls for extra safeguards on air quality. Obviously, Parliament did vote for the NPS and the Secretary of State has now designated it, but it is essential he keeps his promises on air quality.
It is also vital that the public sector leads, demonstrating what is possible. The Government could set dates by which their car fleet will all be ULEVs. Local authorities, the NHS and other large public bodies could do the same with their fleets. It is not just on road transport where the Government are less ambitious than they might be. The decision to row back from electrification of our railways in favour of bi-mode trains has worrying implications for air quality, carbon emissions and noise. Of course, our Committee has also published a report on rail investment today. Those look more like decisions taken in isolation than decisions taken under the umbrella of an overarching strategy.
There is a danger that the Government rely too heavily on new technologies to solve our air quality challenges, placing too much emphasis on cleaning up road vehicles and not enough on reducing the number of vehicles on our roads. Improving public transport and encouraging active travel should lie at the heart of any clean air strategy. Our four committees concluded that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Department for Transport must work closely with local authorities to ensure that councils introducing clean air zones receive the support they need to implement complementary measures that encourage car drivers to switch to public transport and active travel, as well as increasing the take-up of electric vehicles. Yet modal shift and active travel—walking and cycling—hardly get a mention in the Government’s draft strategy.
Investment in low emission buses is great but the value of such investments is magnified if local authorities also take steps to encourage motorists to opt for buses rather than making journeys by car. The latest passenger statistics show that bus patronage is falling and rail passenger numbers are also down. It is too early to say whether that is a blip or the start of a trend, but the Government should be concerned. Is the policy response in line with the strategy the Government tell us they want to have? Well, not really—the cost of rail and bus travel are rising faster than the cost of motoring. The Government’s own assumptions appear to show that, as things stand, they accept that their policies will not deliver a financial incentive to encourage or support modal shift. Without some action, whether on fuel duty or charging zones, efforts to tackle congestion or improve air quality are less likely to succeed. It would be helpful if the Government were to articulate more clearly than they have what they want to achieve on modal shift and how they will deliver that, and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments today.
The Government also need to create a framework in which local authorities have the resources and powers they need to act. The new expectations on councils on air quality come at a time when they are already facing huge funding pressures. The Government must provide all local authorities breaching nitrogen dioxide limit levels with access to the financial resources they need to tackle them. Responsibility for providing those resources should not lie only with the public sector: following the principle that the polluter should pay, the private sector should be asked to contribute to a clean air fund. As hon. Members have said, Volkswagen and other car manufacturers that cheated emissions tests should be held to account. Our Select Committee has repeatedly raised this issue with Ministers and the lack of action is deeply disappointing.
Policies and action at local level also need supporting national polices and a public debate that makes it less difficult to implement things that may not be universally popular. Our ambitions for cleaner air, with the associated public health and environmental benefits, cannot succeed without action by local authorities, businesses and communities. The sustained improvements we have seen in air quality in the past can be continued only if Government action—legislative, policy, taxation, and spending—is co-ordinated and working in tandem with other players. By failing to act in a joined-up way, the Government are not just undermining their air quality strategy; they are missing opportunities for synergies that would help deliver on other policy goals. For example, many of the policies needed to tackle urban congestion could also help to improve air quality, and tackling both could have a positive effect on the local and national economy. A significant increase in active travel could make a difference to policies on tackling obesity, improving mental health and building better communities. Action on air quality could help to reduce carbon emissions. The realisation of the wider benefits cannot be left to happen by chance.
Action on poor air quality is long overdue. There are things we can do—this is not a problem without a solution—but if the Government do not show leadership, nothing will change. We have passed the point where more of the same will do the job; the courts have made that clear. Bold, ambitious and innovative polices are needed to create the right framework for action—a framework within which national policies support and encourage the right kinds of action at a local level. The Government have launched a consultation on their clean air strategy, but its lack of focus on transport emissions looks complacent, falling well short of what we recommended in our joint report. I hope that Ministers will heed our calls today and redouble their efforts.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
During the inquiry, we learned from Professor Holgate, the lead clinician from the Royal College of Physicians, that poor air quality is the second biggest cause of avoidable mortality in this country, after smoking. It cuts short some 40,000 lives a year, and we know from the British Heart Foundation and others that even a day’s exposure to elevated levels of poor-quality air can increase the likelihood of a heart attack.
Were any of us to go into our local GP surgery, we would very likely see in the leaflet stands or on the walls information on helping us to reduce our alcohol consumption or to cut back smoking or give up altogether, and hopefully we would see some information on coming off illegal substances. All are public health risks that are well known and well understood, and information on them has reached the level of our local surgeries. I challenge any Member present to go into their local GP surgery and see what they can find about what to do about poor air quality, the second biggest cause of avoidable mortality in our country. We need to do more. GPs are under pressure and there is an awful lot that they need to do. We need education in the medical schools, we need the royal colleges to get on top of the issue and we need Public Health England to take a lead in this policy area. I shall say more about the latter shortly.
I occasionally feel that the issue of poor air quality is set up as a battle between the air-quality zealots on one side and on the other those who champion lower-income motorists and people struggling to get around in their ordinary lives. That is a completely false way to look at the issue. Let us consider for a moment a woman who has to drive a van—probably a diesel van—for her living. She is often stuck in traffic but it is the only way that she can earn her living to put bread on the table for the children. It is possible that she lives near a busy road and her children go to a school that is also near a busy road. That lady needs to earn her living. She needs that van—it is probably the only van that she can get hold of to do her work—but at the same time her health is being damaged. So it is not about the people who are concerned about this issue on one side and on the other people who just see it as a bore from well-meaning busybodies who want to interfere and make their lives more difficult. It is a more nuanced and complicated issue than that. We have to help people to live their lives in an affordable manner so that they can earn their incomes without suffering huge damage to their health. I direct the House’s attention to what the California Air Resources Board did with a targeted scheme to help people on lower incomes to move to cleaner and less polluting vehicles.
If one thing comes out of my speech today, for the House and anybody who may be listening to it outside this place, I want it to be the fact, which is almost unknown and unrecognised by the public, that people in their car are up to 10 times worse off in terms of the damage being done to their health than they are outside on the street. It is the complete opposite of what most of our constituents believe. They believe that if they are in their car with the air conditioning on, they are relatively protected from all the horrible fumes outside.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Ind)
I thank my political neighbour for giving way. I suffered from breathing fumes in traffic jams when driving my car on holiday. I did not know that my chest problems were to do with breathing fumes. The simple technique of making sure that when we use our air conditioning, we press the button that recirculates the air inside the car rather than drawing in polluted air from outside, is very important. It would be helpful if that information was given to people.
Andrew Selous
I am grateful to my parliamentary neighbour for giving us that personal example of how he was affected.
I am afraid that the bad news does not stop there. Professor Holgate also told us that even in buses and taxis, for which researchers have done similar measurements, people are two to three times worse off than if they were walking on the street. Of course, we absolutely need to encourage more bus travel, hopefully in clean buses—perhaps electric or hydrogen-powered—but we have to look at how we travel around our big cities, particularly as we arrive in major towns, the traffic slows down and we all get stuck in it. If people knew the facts and were aware, there would be a demand: when people stood for the local council or for Parliament, they would be asked, “What are you going to do to help to make this issue better in my local area when you get on to the council?”, or “What is Parliament going to do about it?”
Mary Creagh
I passionately agree with the excellent points that the hon. Gentleman is making, but does he agree that we need fundamentally to rethink how we think of traffic? When people say that they are stuck in traffic, they are traffic—they are part of the congestion. When I cycle to work in the mornings, I am not stuck in traffic because I am part of a cycling stream that is going around the people who are stuck in their vehicles. If we want cities where people can move and breathe, we need fundamentally to rethink what traffic looks like.
Andrew Selous
I completely agree with the hon. Lady. In another guise, I co-chair the all-party group on cycling, so I absolutely get the importance of cycling and walking. They are not just good for our health and do not just cut congestion and pollution, but are good for our mental health, helping us to socialise and build community. There are so many reasons why what the hon. Lady said is absolutely right.
Dr Whitford
My home is on the west coast of Scotland, where I am lucky to have incredibly clean air, but when I am down here I normally walk or cycle to Parliament. If anyone else present suffers from asthma, they will know what a bad winter I have had, almost continuously since last November. It is no good telling people to get on their bikes or to walk when that then exposes them. We need to deal with the traffic to allow safe cycling.
Andrew Selous
I could not agree more. As someone who over the Easter recess cycled from my home to my constituency office along the busy A5, with juggernauts going fairly close to me, I completely understand what the hon. Lady says. We need safe cycling, and all the evidence shows that more people will cycle if it is safer. That is especially true for children going to school from all the new housing developments. When we build new housing, it is essential that we have safe cycle routes to the schools. That will result in healthier children, less childhood obesity and better communities.
Let me go quickly through the full list of health problems associated with poor air quality. It includes: premature birth; reduction in foetal growth; low birth weight; increased risk of death during the first year of life, particularly from respiratory illnesses; exacerbation of the effects of respiratory infections in young children; and effects on the normal growth of lung function during childhood. There is really shocking evidence that if a child’s lung capacity is damaged when it is young, it may never recover. From a social justice point of view, it is even worse, because it is the poorest kids who are breathing in the worst air. That is why this issue matters so much.
The list also includes cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, hypertension and stroke. Poor air quality also leads to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease; pneumonia; accelerated decline in lung function and lung cancer in adulthood; the development of early onset asthma, which the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) mentioned just now, as well as exacerbating asthma in those already living with the condition; impaired cognition; dementia—a big Canadian study showed a link with dementia; and other neuro-degenerative disorders as well as type 2 diabetes, obesity and metabolic syndrome. I think that we can say that that is a pretty concerning list.
Public Health England is a very fine body, which I admire very greatly. Its chief executive, Duncan Selbie, does very good work, but we need more action from the organisation. It needs to be engaged in this issue. What it has done so far has been quite high level and quite strategic; it has not really come down to the level of the citizen, which is where we need it to be active.
One recommendation of the joint report of the Select Committees was that Public Health England should deliver an effective and appropriate campaign by this September, but Public Health England has told us that that is not possible in the timescale. That is despite the fact that the World Health Organisation has called this issue a public health emergency. I ask PHE to redouble its efforts on this issue and really try to get this information down to local levels so that people are, first, informed and, secondly, know what they can do to protect themselves best, and to stop being part of the problem and to start contributing to the issue.
I was pleased to see in the foreword to the Government’s 2018 clean air strategy, the statement by the Secretary of State that there would be a new goal that takes into account the World Health Organisation guidelines. There was also a commitment to primary legislation. I know that the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley), cares a lot about these matters. When he responds, could he please give us a little bit more detail on this issue? There are specific World Health Organisation guidelines on the amount of particulate matter—PM2.5 —that we should not exceed on a daily basis. When the Government talk about taking into account the guidelines, I hope that they will go into that level of detail, bearing in mind what I said about the briefing from the British Heart Foundation about the increased risk of heart attack from elevated exposure to poor air quality just within a 24-hour period.
Winter pressure in the national health service is a huge issue that concerns every single Member here and I know the national health service is taking it extremely seriously as we head towards next winter. I have just been in the Upper Waiting Hall speaking to Dr Hugh Coe from Manchester University as part of evidence week, which is a very welcome intervention, as the top academics and scientists who know about these issues take the time and trouble to come down to Parliament to brief Members so that we are properly informed and can make good decisions on these matters. Dr Hugh Coe confirmed what the clinical chair of Bedfordshire clinical commissioning group said to me quite recently, which was that part of the increase in winter pressures, much of which is caused by older people going into hospital with respiratory problems, is from poor air quality. When we have cold weather in winter, the air is clammy and a bit foggy, which means that the pollution gets stuck in it. We breathe it in. It affects us more as we breathe it in. The same happens when it is very hot in the summer because the sun exacerbates the pollution. Again, I do not think that it is well known that there is this link between poor air quality, higher levels of respiratory problems and the winter pressures that we are all concerned about—a further reason for action.
My final issue is how we energise this issue at a local level. The Government talk about monitoring levels of air quality around schools. I would add old people’s homes as well. There are many other places where it is very important that we know the level of air quality. That information is really important to inform local residents, so that when they are looking to elect people to public office, either to Parliament or to local authorities, they can let them know how seriously they take this issue and the fact that they want something to be done about it.
Finally, we had a meeting on air quality and active travel in my constituency not so long ago. An older lady who had never smoked and who had led a pretty healthy life came up to me and said, “I am here today. I have just been diagnosed with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Where did that come from?” She had never smoked. The chances were, I am afraid, that she got it from breathing in poor quality air. That will greatly affect the last years of her life. Sometimes we talk in statistics and percentages, but I want to end my contribution with that one lady and the impact on her remaining years.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. Just a gentle reminder that if we stick to 10 minutes each, I will not have to impose a time limit. There is another debate to follow this one.
Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will endeavour to stick to the time limit.
I join my colleagues in thanking the Liaison and Backbench Business Committees for granting us this debate. As we have heard, air pollution causes an estimated 40,000 early deaths each year. That is as much as is caused by alcohol. As the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) said in his speech—and it is a pleasure to follow on from him—we go to our GP surgery and we find out about obesity and tackling drug and alcohol problems, but there is no advice on air pollution, despite successive reports from different Committees. The Environmental Audit Committee, the predecessor Committee, looked at this issue back in 2011 and it was seen as almost a cranky thing to be considering—a bit weird, a bit strange and a bit eco-warriorish. The fact that we are now debating this on the Floor of the House shows the long period of education—both of the public and of parliamentarians—that has taken place in the seven years since then. We are now waking up to a public health emergency.
One hundred and seventy eight of those early deaths are in Wakefield. I urge Members to go up to the Upper Waiting Hall and look at the quality of the air in their constituencies. We are in the middle of a hot spell. It has not, as yet, been defined as a heatwave. People might think that it is a heatwave, but we have had the Met Office in. We are looking at heatwaves at the moment, so everything that the Environmental Audit Committee looks at suddenly becomes a big, interesting thing. The link between heatwaves and air pollution is very strong. One early piece of evidence that we have seen is that we will experience more excess deaths in future as our country and our planet warm, so this is something that we need to start thinking about.
We have heard about how the Government have failed successively in various air pollution plans to get this right. We should have met our targets back in 2010, and we have millions of people now living with illegally high levels of air pollution, and we are back into the realms of plan A, plan B and plan C. It is a bit like Samuel Beckett said, “Fail again. Fail better.” The only reason why the Government are acting is because of European Union law, and now we are set to leave the EU. The Government are only accepting a post-Brexit watchdog because Parliament has demanded it. Again, that is something that my Committee is looking at. It is of absolutely prime importance that we have not just the air quality standards, but some enforcement mechanism after we leave.
Our Committees asked the National Audit Office—my Committee likes to audit things and we like to see the measurement, the numbers, the costs and the benefits—to investigate performance on air pollution. It found that 85% of air quality zones did not meet the EU’s nitrogen dioxide limits in 2016, and those zones are forecast to be in breach for another eight years—till 2026.
We talk a lot about transport. Transport is responsible for the concentration of nitrogen dioxide, but the NAO discovered in its forensic work that wood-burning stoves are responsible for 42% of all emissions across the country, and that agriculture is responsible for 80% of ammonia emissions. We must not focus only on urban transport; that is where the concentrations are, but we must also look at wood-burning stoves. I was very disappointed to hear the comments of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury about banning “wood-burning Goves”—wood-burning stoves. We cannot afford to joke about this issue. We can act in a regulatory manner; it is possible to have low-emission stoves. We have to act in order to ensure that people are not buying something for their home that is going to sit there, belching out this stuff in the winter for the next 20 years. The cost of the health impacts of air pollution is £20 billion a year, which puts into context the costs of acting on this issue. The Government have until October to try again.
The main victims of air pollution are drivers and passengers. I went on Radio 5 Live to say this, and there was slight annoyance from some of the people who were phoning in. They were asking, “Why has no one told us to shut our air vents when we are sitting in our vehicles?” Professor Stephen Holgate told our inquiry how the placement of exhausts and ventilation systems means that
“you just vent the freshest, most toxic pollutants—the fumes coming right out of the tailpipe—straight into the car, to your child sitting in the back seat.”
For those of us who have pushed babies in buggies to school, they are also at tailpipe level. That means that the youngest, most vulnerable members of our communities—the ones with smaller lungs—are the ones breathing in the most of this stuff. As a community, we really need to think about this.
We have been looking at what happens with air quality targets if we leave the EU. Domestic legislation is not as strong and not taken as seriously as EU law, because EU law has the threat of fines behind it. The four Committees welcomed proposals to bring forward an environmental watchdog, but we said that it must have the powers
“to force the Government to act, otherwise action on air quality will be further weakened.”
The Government brought forward their proposals, but mentioned an advisory notice, which is effectively a watchdog with no teeth. Parliament has now stepped in. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act requires the Government to bring forward a Bill in the next six months to create a body with enforcement powers. Next month, my Committee will publish a report recommending what that body should look like.
We have come a long way, even since our inquiry earlier this year. Back then, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), told us that no legislation was necessary. But we recommended that the right to clean air be put into law. I am glad that the Government now accept the need for legislation as part of a clean air strategy to meet our EU obligations.
We also need to ensure that we are looking at how we can phase out petrol and diesel cars, and we need the Government to be joined up on this issue. During our inquiry, we sat there with four Ministers in front of us, and it was a bit like a children’s party game—pass the parcel. The Department for Communities and Local Government passed it on to the Department for Transport, which passed it on to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs—the DEFRA Minister was the star of the show—and the Department of Health. The issue was being passed around. The people responsible for designing the cities were not talking to the people designing the transportation system, who were not talking to the people responsible for air quality, who were not talking to the public health people. This is not acceptable. We cannot allow air pollution to keep falling through the policy cracks and gaps in this way.
We now hear that the Government’s plans to phase out petrol and diesel cars are being downgraded to a “mission”. Well, saints protect us from Governments on a mission. Norway is going to phase out the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025. India, the Netherlands, Germany and Scotland all plan to do so earlier than the UK. We are missing a trick here. If we are not in the vanguard when it comes to acting on this issue, we are going to lose the global environmental race. The fourth industrial revolution has already started. It is taking place at technological speed—at the speed of the tech revolution. Things are going to start speeding up very quickly.
Buses are the Cinderella in all this. Only one quarter of buses in west Yorkshire meet the Euro 5 standard. I am sure that it is very similar in south Yorkshire, Madam Deputy Speaker. When the National Audit Office looked at the cost-benefit analysis, it found that a clean bus fund—a fund to clean up buses, heavy goods vehicles and taxis—would cost the public purse £170 million, but it would cost the public nothing. As the largest purchaser of goods and services in the country, the Government should really look to act on this issue.
When we audited the Ministry of Justice—a big Department with lots of prisons, probations, courts and estate to look after—we found that it had just three electric vehicles, even though it is responsible for a quarter of Government spend on goods and services. Greening Government commitments mean nothing if the Government are not acting as well. Why does the NHS not have an electric car fleet? We spend £110 billion or £120 billion of public money on the health service every year, yet we are allowing our nurses and doctors out in the community to drive polluting vehicles. It is just not on. We have to lead by example.
Will the Minister tell us when he is going to bring forward the commitments to label cars more clearly? People buy cars every day of the week, but they are buying a pig in a poke. They might be looking at the taxation side of their purchase, but they do not know about the emissions side. It costs nothing to introduce those labelling standards. When can we expect to see them?
Finally, we have heard a lot about electric vehicles and low-emission vehicles. I travel to work in this place every day on an ultra-low emission vehicle. It is called a bicycle. It emits no carbon apart from my breath, which is sometimes a little heavier and laboured when it is a bit hot. Every day, I cycle past the measurement on the embankment, which reads, for example, “6,000 cyclists today” or “10,000 cyclists today”. It was perhaps a bit lower when we had the “beast from the east”, although I still cycled in through the snow—very, very slowly. Blackfriars bridge now carries more cyclists than cars each day.
As someone who hails from Coventry, where James Starley invented the bicycle in 1868, I think that we need to start going back to the future. We need to look at electric bicycles and at how we design cities that are not for cars. Coventry was rebuilt after the war for cars, not for people, but we need to design cities where people can move and breathe, and where we can make short journeys around through active travel, and save the health service and ourselves a lot of pain, a lot of hassle and a lot of money.
Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh); I really enjoyed my time with her on the Environmental Audit Committee. This is a very important debate and I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in it. I also thank my west country colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), for presenting the joint report of the four Select Committees.
Pollution and poor air quality are very important issues. These are public health emergencies that need addressing. The discussion around pollution and air quality often focuses on large urban areas such as London, where there is lots of dense traffic and many large public transport systems. The issue of poor air quality in rural areas like mine is sometimes forgotten because, understandably, large urban cities have the most pollution. As a rural MP, I want to highlight an issue specific to my constituency—the case of a small town in a very rural area that suffers from poor air quality—and to state why action is needed.
Camelford is at the heart of my North Cornwall constituency, and has a population of only 3,000 people. It does not have any large factories with smoke pouring out, planes flying overhead or thousands of people swarming the pavements using buses, taxis and trains. But it does have a main arterial road running right through the town centre that is used by lots of cars, lorries and tractors, which all pass through at a constant rate. There are chicanes in the town centre, and lots of traffic lights. Whenever people drive through Camelford, they are inevitably caught in a queue of traffic that crawls through the town. The queuing cars are polluting the small and narrow town centre, where many people are walking up and down the pavements doing their day-to-day chores. We have seen traffic levels rise year on year, with many more cars and lorries, and therefore more pollution, which means an increased risk to public health.
The reason why Camelford suffers from all this congestion and pollution is that the A39 runs right through the town centre. The A39 is a busy road running down the centre of North Cornwall, connecting some of the constituency’s biggest towns, which are very popular with tourists, and the road is used heavily in the summer months. It is an important road for connecting Devon and Cornwall, heavily used by heavy goods vehicles, with lots of agricultural movements every day. The high number of local farms means that there is lots of farm traffic, as well as lorries travelling to and from the various communities dotted along the road.
In general, the road is quite free-flowing. It is a single carriageway that dips in and out of valleys, as is normal in the Cornish countryside, and around various twists and turns. The road does not encounter much congestion until we get to Camelford town. The road narrows as it reaches the town centre, and the traffic is funnelled into a very narrow high street. Anyone who has been to Cornwall will know that we built much of our housing on the side of roads, and you do not have to walk far off the pavement to be in someone’s house. Some of the buildings on the road are three or four storeys high and are very close to the cars passing in the immediate vicinity, which means the pollution cannot easily escape. That has been proven by tests conducted by Cornwall Council in pollution hotspots near the town centre. Traffic cannot flow in both directions at the same time as the town centre has a traffic light shuttle system, and there are chicanes and lights to stagger traffic. That causes queues, frustration, delays, noise and pollution, and threatens the wellbeing of my constituents and those living along the road or taking their children to the nearby school.
Because of the pollution and air quality issues, Cornwall Council has had to place Camelford in an air quality management area under the Environment Act 1995. Those management areas can be introduced when a local authority knows that levels of seven different pollutants exceed domestic or EU limits. In 2016, the council found high levels of carbon monoxide in Camelford, which are directly attributable to the motor vehicles passing along the A39. The air quality assessment found that the daily average number of vehicles passing through the town centre in 2015 was 6,028, up by almost 1,000 or 25% from 2011. With regard to pollutants, the assessment found that carbon monoxide levels were present in a variety of locations and that they exceeded the UK’s annual mean objective.
As part of the air quality management area process, the council has developed a draft action plan, which went out to consultation earlier this year. The action plan focuses on the option of a bypass, which it has concluded would be the most effective way of dealing with the congestion in the town centre. In tandem with that work, Cormac, which is part of Cornwall Council, has published an options appraisal report that lays out the options for remedying the congestion issues. The report concludes that either a HGV diversion route should be implemented or a bypass should be constructed, and it soundly recommends that the best long-term solution to the problem in the town would be a bypass.
The population of Camelford will grow substantially over the years, and it is imperative that we nip this problem in the bud as soon as possible. In the next 15 to 20 years, there will be thousands more vehicles passing along the road every week, leading to higher carbon monoxide levels and putting my constituents’ health at risk. I feel that it would be a dereliction of my duty if I did not talk about this issue and raise it in the House.
As the Minister will know, the Department for Transport is working on a new major roads network, which will map out the various major roads around England that are not part of the strategic road network. The draft MRN includes the A39 in North Cornwall, which means that the construction of a bypass could be funded through the multimillion-pound funding streams available through the MRN. A bypass would not only address the poor air quality but facilitate economic growth and unlock land for housing.
Poor air quality remains the most important issue. My constituents deserve to live in a community that does not suffer from these high levels of pollution. When debating the NHS and public health, Members and health experts often say that prevention is better than cure. Camelford is a prime example of that principle. The signs are that air quality is getting poorer and we know that traffic levels will get higher and that the town will get bigger. A bypass is the only long-term solution, and I hope that both DEFRA and the Department for Transport will make it possible for my constituents and their children to go about their day-to-day lives in a healthy environment. I fully support the Government’s manifesto commitment to leave the environment in a better state than we found it in, but it is issues such as this that will define whether we are true to our word.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
It is my view that the House is discussing the biggest public health scandal that Britain faces. As we have heard, air pollution is the second biggest avoidable killer after smoking. Unlike smoking, it is not avoidable for most people—most people do not choose where they live or the air they breathe, and that is particularly the case for children. In most cases, it is invisible, so the level of public and political consciousness about this is not as high as it should be, given the tens of thousands of unnecessary premature deaths a year and all the illnesses that air pollution causes.
We have heard that the cost to business and the NHS is £20 billion a year. Incidentally, the Treasury Minister who appeared before our joint Committee inquiry—the then Exchequer Secretary, the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones)—was not aware of that figure, which I thought was appalling. For a Treasury Minister not to be aware of the cost to the public purse of a major health emergency was, in my view, astonishing.
Mary Creagh
Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is a bit of a running theme with the Treasury, which is very keen to look at the money that it controls, but not very keen to look at how costs are externalised on to other services such as the health service?
Mr Bradshaw
I completely agree.
UNICEF brought out a shocking report last week, which said that one in three children in the United Kingdom are now growing up in areas with unsafe levels of air pollution. It has been widely acknowledged across the House that successive Governments have had insufficient urgency in dealing with this problem. The Government have finally published their draft strategy but, as others have said, it is just not good enough. It is full of further prevarication, delays and half-measures. It passes the buck to local government, which is in many areas under-resourced and under-qualified to deal with this problem.
In my area, for example, we still have a two-tier local authority system. The problem is in the city, where the air is worst, but my Labour city council does not have control over the levers of planning and transportation, which are in the hands of the Conservative-run Devon County Council. It is always difficult to get those two authorities to work together but, on a problem as challenging and expensive as this, they really need more support and strategic lead from the Government.
Lilian Greenwood
Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that the communities that are most affected by poor air quality tend to be the most deprived communities, often living close to city centres? It may well be those councils that have suffered the greatest reductions in their spending capability, and we face a real danger of widening health inequalities, as well as those funding inequalities.
Mr Bradshaw
I completely agree. One of my frustrations is that some of the more radical measures, such as congestion charging or workplace carpark charging, have an impact on many people who drive into my city from the rural areas. The politics of a county authority championing those sorts of policy are really hard. I am pleased that progress is being made in Oxford between a Labour city council and a Conservative-run county council. That is a model to take forward, but it is very difficult in two-tier local authority areas.
It is clear to me and to the experts that the draft strategy as it stands will not ensure that we meet our legal requirements, let alone the stricter World Health Organisation air quality recommendations. As we say in our report, we badly need mandated clean air zones—I cannot for the life of me understand why the Government do not just introduce those—and we need practical and real help for individuals and businesses to move to cleaner forms of transport. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh), who chairs the Environmental Audit Committee, rightly said, we need a massive modal shift in transport in our towns and cities. Most short journeys in towns and cities that are conducted by car could perfectly easily be done by most able-bodied people by bicycle or foot. As she said, the electric bicycle will revolutionise the way we move around towns and cities.
Mary Creagh
My right hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. When I was in Warsaw the other day, I went to a hire a bike. I accidentally hired an electric bike. I can tell him: when the weather is hot and the hills are hard, that is the only way to go.
Mr Bradshaw
If my hon. Friend does not mind my saying so, she is still a bit too young to have to resort to assistance with her cycling. One of the reasons that we both maintain our svelte shape is that we are both avid cyclists. I am putting off the moment when I have to resort to an electric bike, even given the very challenging hills in my Exeter constituency.
We are seeing progress in some places. As a number of colleagues have mentioned, London has already improved significantly, with big increases in cycling, but that is because of the congestion charge and the provision of designated safe cycle routes. Similarly in my constituency, when we were a cycling demonstration town under the Labour Government, there was significant investment in safe cycle routes. That has all dried up, however, and what support there is for cycling and walking is very patchy; it is not strategic. Again, when we asked the Ministers who came before our joint Committee if they knew how much money was being spent on cycling and walking and where, they simply could not answer the question. They are not monitoring it. There is no collection of the data. All of this needs to be much, much more joined up.
As others have already said, the only reason the Government are doing anything is that they have been forced to by the domestic and European courts. One of my real concerns—the Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee touched on this—is that the Government seem to be trying to put off doing anything meaningful until we are out of the European Union and no longer subject to European environmental legislation or the European Court of Justice, with ordinary members of the public unable not only to demand but to enforce their rights through the courts if those rights are not honoured by our own domestic Government. I have a real concern that, if we leave the European Union, we will go back to being the dirty man of Europe, as we were in the early 1970s, before we joined.
Britain has a proud record of being a leader on public health. We had the Clean Air Act 1956, the seatbelt campaign and real success in tackling smoking and drinking, both of which have gone down significantly. However, on air quality, we seem to have a sort of stubborn refusal to act. I have been asking myself why that is. Is it because of a fear of the powerful motorists lobby? Perhaps, but as other hon. Members have said it is motorists inside the vehicles who are being polluted the most—10 times more than those people pushing their children in prams or walking up the street. They may think they are being polluted more, but people in vehicles are actually in much greater danger. A clear publicity campaign about that might persuade a few people to change their minds and their habits.
I believe that clean air is a human right. We have to get out of the mindset—as we have with smoking in public places, incidentally—that vehicles have a God-given right to drive around our towns and cities polluting and fouling the air, and causing serious health problems and costs to our country as a whole. I hope that, when the Government strategy is eventually published, it will have taken on board the concerns that have been raised by Members in the House and the concerns of the experts, and that it really will have some teeth in order to make the difference that this country and the people of this country deserve.
Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)
Last month, the World Health Organisation published a list of the 30 worst polluted areas—those exceeding their limits—in the country. These included, perhaps not surprisingly, London, Liverpool, Leeds and Manchester, but they also included Storrington in my constituency—Storrington was among the 30 worst polluted areas in the whole country. It is worse than that. Compare My Move reported earlier this month that, using the WHO data on the worst pollutants—fine particulate matter—the worst cities for air pollution were Bristol, Stanford-le-Hope, Swansea and Storrington; it called that a city. These places had a higher concentration of pollutants than London. Storrington was the worst place in the south-ast.
The “city” of Storrington is in fact a village, of just 7,000 residents, and it is at the foot of the South Downs national park. It is in very picturesque country and it is astonishing that it should be one of the places with the very worst air pollution in the country. The reason is the traffic that is forced through the village. It was declared an air quality management area eight years ago. A low emissions trial was set up, but it was abandoned after just one year because, ironically, there was no mobile phone signal available in that rural area, so the data could not be sent. Some 3% of the traffic through Storrington is made up of heavy goods vehicles, but they are responsible for 30% of the pollution.
Local people know that there is a very good reason traffic is so heavy through Storrington, and why the air pollution is consequently so bad when the traffic queues. The reason is that the traffic is forced up through the downs because of congestion on the A27, which runs at the bottom of the south downs and through my constituency. That was once said or meant to be the coastal highway, but significant parts of it are not dualled and it has very serious congestion, including at Arundel. As a consequence, the traffic aims to miss the congestion on the A27 and instead rat-runs through the historic town of Arundel in my constituency and up through the south downs and downland villages such as Storrington. That accounts for the terrible air quality.
There is, therefore, a very strong environmental case for trying to do something about that traffic. The obvious thing to do is to upgrade the A27 to make the traffic flow freely along what is in any case a very important route economically, as the east-west connection in the south of England. At last—this has been delayed for over three decades—we have a plan for the Arundel bypass. I am very grateful to the Government for announcing the funding for the bypass a few years ago, and Highways England has recently announced the preferred route for the scheme. There are of course some local objections to the bypass, as there always are, but my judgment is that there is overwhelming local support for it, not least because of all the traffic running up through the towns and the air pollution in places such as Storrington as a consequence.
It was, therefore, very surprising and disappointing when the South Downs National Park Authority announced that it would seek a judicial review of Highways England’s preferred route. This is an extraordinary position: a public body, using public funds and through proper consultation, has identified the best route for a bypass that the Government have announced funding for and say is necessary; and another publicly funded body, the South Downs National Park Authority—paying absolutely no regard to the views of local people or local villages in the communities in the South Downs national park—has decided, on what is clearly a purely ideological basis, to seek a judicial review of the route and has tried to prevent it from happening simply because it touches a tiny part of the national park right at the bottom of it.
In fact, everybody knows that this will be a South Downs national park relief road. Highways England official projections show that annually there are 15,287 daily traffic movements on average through Storrington, causing all the congestion and pollution and that, with the Arundel bypass on the preferred route, there would be over 3,000 fewer traffic movements in the first year after the bypass opens—over 20% fewer—and by 2041 there would be nearly 6,000 fewer traffic movements, or 38% fewer. So the bypass would clearly prevent the problems of the traffic queuing in this downland village.
Despite that, we have this attempted judicial review. The meeting was not public. Notice was barely given of it. Where is the accountability for this decision? Why is not the South Downs National Park Authority made party to the collective decisions that ought to be taken by local authorities on environmental matters, including reducing air pollution? Why can it simply stand above that, when it is clearly of such environmental benefit overall to the south downs and the downland communities? Its actions are completely unacceptable, and local communities are rightly very angry at what it is seeking to do.
Another village in my constituency, Cowfold, is also over the statutory limits on air pollution. It exceeds both the EU and the WHO maximum levels. It is an even smaller village, of only 2,000 people, but it sits on the A272, and again there is queuing traffic. It was declared an air quality management area in 2011, but there has been no real action for seven years. Some 4% of the traffic is heavy goods vehicles, but they contribute 37% of the pollution. The parish council wants a very simple thing. It wants signs put up by the side of the main routes that run north and south alongside the village, the A24 and the A23, to discourage heavy goods vehicles from taking the route along the A272.
There are perfectly viable dual carriageway routes that go away from this road and village, and there are means by which to discourage heavy goods vehicles from taking this route, yet we have seen a complete failure by the relevant local authorities to take forward any initiative to do the simple thing of introducing these signs. West Sussex County Council says that there is no evidence to support the contention that heavy goods vehicle traffic would be affected by the signs wherever they might be placed. It needs a feasibility study, but there is no funding for one.
I welcome the Government’s air quality plan published last July—I am not churlish about it as other hon. Members are—because it represents a welcome step towards taking action in places such as Storrington and Cowfold. I note that the Government announced a £255 million implementation fund to support local authorities in conducting things such as feasibility studies, and I think £40 million of that was meant to be made available immediately, so can the Minister confirm that the fund is available to places such as Storrington and Cowfold, so that they can conduct feasibility studies, and that the clean air fund, which the Government also announced, will be available to those local authorities if they then need to take measures as a consequence of the feasibility studies?
We cannot let this matter drag on. It has affected Storrington and Cowfold for well over a decade. We need energetic joint action by all the local authorities, and that needs to be supported, in the way the Government have suggested, by Government funding so that studies can be commissioned and action taken. At the moment, there has been inertia by all concerned, but when there are rural areas and tiny villages at the foot of the south downs with the very worst air pollution in the country, something is wrong. It is completely avoidable and it is time we did something about it.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Ind)
It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate, and I congratulate the Select Committees on bringing forward this important report. Effective action on air quality is now vital and urgent. I live in a town centre with heavy traffic and am, I think, personally affected as much as anyone by poor air quality. I also congratulate hon. Members on a series of first-class, informative and persuasive speeches.
I have a particular interest in the transport aspects of our air quality problems, and I have two proposals to advance today. I have had a long association with transport policy. I was the transport policy officer at the TUC in the 1970s, and later I worked on transport policy at the National and Local Government Officers’ Association, which became part of Unison. NALGO and others put forward a proposal to transfer the whole cost of vehicle licensing to fuel. We have a sliding scale now, but it is less effective than transferring the total cost to fuel. The advantages are that it would promote and encourage the use of fuel-efficient vehicles—hybrids and electric vehicles, in particular—and deter excessive vehicle usage and mileage. For many, it is necessary to own a vehicle. Less well-off people who live in rural areas depend on private motor transport, and having a cheaper vehicle would be better for them, while it would deter excessive car usage by better-off people—those like ourselves who perhaps drive our cars more than we should. I still believe that such a policy would be sensible, even though successive Governments have rejected the idea, at least so far, and that it should be given further consideration.
My second interest, and my primary concern, is to advance the case for GB Freight Route, a scheme to build a freight priority railway line from the channel tunnel to Glasgow, linking all the major economic regions of Britain to each other and to the continent of Europe. It would take 5 million lorry journeys off our roads each year and save millions of tons of toxic emissions. We would need to make possible the carriage of lorry trailers and lorries on trains, however, as significant modal shift for freight from road to rail cannot take place unless lorry trailers can be transported on trains. Our historic rail network cannot carry such traffic because of loading gauge restrictions. The tunnels and bridges are too small and too tight to accommodate lorry trailers on trains.
GB Freight Route would overcome that problem. It would be constructed on old track bed and under-utilised lines and has been precisely designated as a route. Sites for terminals where lorry trailers would be lifted on and off trains have been identified, close to motorways serving our major cities and regions. GB Freight Route has major support from a wide range of interests including major hauliers, Eurotunnel, supermarket logistics departments and many others. I have made many presentations, including to Rail Ministers in the past, and intend to carry on doing so.
I should declare an interest—a non-pecuniary interest, I emphasise—as a member of the team promoting GB Freight Route. We have received support from a transport consultancy and a major railway equipment company, which have raised the matter with the Transport Secretary. Other members of our team include experienced railway engineers, a major haulier and a member with city experience and links. We have, then, a wide range of skills in our team promoting the scheme.
Today is perhaps not the time to go into great detail about GB Freight Route, but I hope it will be supported by all those concerned about the air quality crisis that affects us all in Britain and which must be addressed. GB Freight Route can and should make a substantial contribution to improving air quality, especially in and around our cities, and I hope that hon. Members will consider supporting it and urge the Government to give it serious and positive consideration.
Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins), who has great knowledge of this area.
I am delighted to speak in this debate, partly because I was a member of the joint inquiry that produced the report, but also because my family has been affected by a lung condition of unknown origin. My mother suffered from idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, a life-limiting condition diagnosed in about 6,000 new patients each year—it used to be 5,000 each year. Life expectancy from the time of diagnosis is as short as three years for half of those 6,000 people, with one in five surviving for five years—soon for longer, I hope, with the new treatments available. As the name suggests, no one knows what causes it. My mother did not smoke, so it was not that, but it could have been air quality—or, more correctly, poor air quality. We need to do whatever we can to tackle any root cause of lung disease, as no one should have to struggle for breath as my mother did.
I wish to focus on three areas. First, just yesterday I was talking to constituents of mine who had just brought a hybrid car. I was astounded when they informed me that there is only one public charging point in Long Eaton, one of my major towns, and that it is at a hotel, and therefore behind car park barriers. The joint inquiry highlighted the problem that there are too few charging points to support a wider uptake of such vehicles, and this rings warning bells for me. I can envisage a situation comparable to that which we have with mobile phones and broadband coverage—providers falling over themselves to provide services in highly populated areas, while the more rural areas miss out. The patchwork approach to funding and delivering charging points simply is not working. I therefore call upon the Government to do whatever they can to facilitate the installation of adequate infrastructure, to support the UK’s transit away from polluting vehicles. I would appreciate an update from the Minister today regarding the Government’s investment in electric vehicle infrastructure. The report’s recommendation for the Government to work with the National Grid and local authorities to identify the key practical barriers preventing a more rapid roll-out is, in my opinion, very valid.
My constituents yesterday also informed me that there are in the region of 30 providers, all requiring different apps to access their charging points. As petrol and diesel cars are phased out in the coming years, the practicalities of charging points also need to be considered.
Secondly, there was evidence in the report that it is of paramount importance for air quality monitoring to be carried out at key spots in local communities, such as near schools, hospitals and, as my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) mentioned, care homes. The Government’s acknowledgment that those changes need to be made is key, and the monitoring is very welcome because, as with any issue, knowledge is power. Data collected as a result of that monitoring should be disseminated to schools, nurseries and hospitals, with clear advice actions that need to be taken. That will also ensure that information can be available for families, empowering parents to make the right decisions for their children. As the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) highlighted, current data shows that a third of our children are living in areas of the UK with unsafe levels of particulate matter, so we need to take much more rapid action.
Thirdly, I shall discuss my local area. I have a combination of a wish list and an update on what is happening in Erewash and the wider Derby and Nottingham area. The World Health Organisation has reported that both Derby and Nottingham are among the 44 cities in Britain that have air that is not safe to breathe. I therefore plead with local authorities to put tackling that problem at the very top of their agenda. HS2 in the future, and improvements in rail infrastructure such as Ilkeston’s new station, can help to reduce the amount of road traffic heading into our cities.
Derby, famous for “planes, trains and automobiles”, is a highly strategic area for research and development of cleaner, greener transport for the future. The next-generation Auris hybrid car is to be built at Toyota in Burnaston, safeguarding around 3,000 jobs into the 2020s. It has also secured an investment of £240 million in the plant there.
We have heard from the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) of some of the initiatives that Nottingham city is taking, and I want to add a few items to that list. The University of Nottingham, in partnership with firms such as Rolls-Royce, is leading the way in R&D of cleaner, greener, more efficient engines. The university is also gaining a new £23 million research facility to drive breakthroughs in treatment and diagnosis of serious diseases, including respiratory conditions.
To return to Derby, the construction of a new nuclear advanced manufacturing research centre in Derby, which I mentioned during the urgent question today, would enable further research into and development of clean energy, as the UK looks to civil nuclear as a way of securing its power needs for the future. That would include exploring the viability of small modular reactors; as mentioned earlier, Rolls-Royce is leading the way in that as well.
Many exciting projects are being undertaken across the Derby and Nottingham corridor, and indeed throughout the country, that will make a contribution to improving air quality. However, we have no time to lose, so I urge the Government to do whatever they can to ensure that action is taken at scale and pace.
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
I am grateful to be called to make a brief contribution to this debate. I congratulate the Select Committees on their reports. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) for his excellent introductory speech. I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Erewash (Maggie Throup), who made her trademark thoughtful contribution to the debate.
I want to focus on the River Thames. It is busier now than it has ever been—even than its heyday in the ’30s—due to containerisation, so congratulations to London Gateway, Tilbury and the other access ports. I commend inner-London river traffic: Bennett’s Barges, Thames Clippers and the tourist fleet, including the excellent City Cruises. I will return to Thames construction traffic in a moment, but first I want to mention river crossings in London. West of Tower Bridge, there are more than 20 crossings over the Thames. East of Tower Bridge, where estimates say half of London’s population now live, there are only two river crossings between the Tower of London and Dartford. The static traffic and massive congestion through and around the Blackwall tunnel is a huge source of emissions and pollution, contaminating the whole of east London and drifting westward.
I commend the Department for Transport and Mayor Khan for recently confirming the construction of the Silvertown tunnel from Greenwich to Newham. However, it is worth remembering that it took five years to convince Mayor Livingstone that his manifesto against east London river crossings was wrong, and after him, it took three years to convince the right hon. Gentleman who is now Foreign Secretary, when he was Mayor of London, that his own manifesto against east London river crossings was wrong. Fortunately, Mayor Khan has arrived convinced of the need for these crossings, and with DFT support the Silvertown tunnel has now been given a green light. I would welcome the Minister’s confirmation of that, and perhaps an update on other possible river crossings, with public transport access, which would be very welcome indeed and in line with recommendation 15 of the report and the Government response. Tolling might be needed to help pay for those, because obviously they come at a cost.
Kelvin Hopkins
My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that a case has been made for a lower Thames crossing—a tunnel for traffic that would take some of the traffic away from my hon. Friend’s constituency? It might, we suggest, be combined with a rail tunnel for GB Freight Routes. That would cut costs and be a very convenient crossing for both.
Jim Fitzpatrick
My hon. Friend is a well-known champion of rail freight transportation, and in his speech he made the case quite well for the construction of a national link. Were there to be a lower Thames crossing, obviously one would expect the authorities, local, regional and national, to get the biggest bang for the taxpayer’s pound, to ensure that we get the maximum benefit. I am sure that, as and when that debate takes place, my hon. Friend will be at the forefront of those advocating a rail dimension to that crossing.
Dr Whitford
On a point of interest, will these tunnels also have separate pedestrian and cyclist tunnels? Obviously, putting pedestrians and cyclists in the tunnel with traffic would be even worse than what are discussing, and why should they end up in a car because of the long route that needs to be taken by those on a bike?
Jim Fitzpatrick
The hon. Lady makes a very good point. The Minister may well be able to say what access there will be for both pedestrians and cyclists. We have two tunnels in east London. In the Blackwall tunnel there is no capacity for either pedestrians or cyclists, given the volumes of traffic and the narrowness of the verges. The Rotherhithe tunnel, which is even smaller and was constructed in the late 19th century, has restrictions on size, but the pollution down there is horrendous. One would therefore expect that new tunnels could have such capacity, separated from normal traffic, but I do not know whether that is in the construction plans. That is why I asked about public transport access. If that is included, pedestrians and cyclists can use those modes to negotiate the Thames, because it is a barrier in east London. As I said, half of London’s population lives in east London and people who want to get from south London to their jobs in Canary Wharf, the City and the west end find it really difficult to commute successfully.
Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab)
My hon. Friend has mentioned the Rotherhithe and Blackwall tunnels, which connect to the north circular road, the A406, which goes through my constituency. Does he welcome Mayor Khan’s low-emission zones and the impact that they will have on reducing emissions across London, therefore saving people’s lives?
Jim Fitzpatrick
My hon. Friend makes a good point. Several colleagues have mentioned the excellent work that Mayor Khan is doing, with the low-emission zones being very much part of his strategy to tackle air quality. That is a huge priority for his administration, so the point was well made by my hon. Friend. The A406 is a very important artery for London.
I was just about to discuss the Thames itself. Not only are more tourists and commuters using it, but there is more construction traffic. The Thames Tideway tunnel is a good example of a major infrastructure project using the river to the benefit of Londoners. Chris Livett, waterman to the Queen, recently unveiled a fleet of new barges for not just this project, but others. The largest of the barges, of which there are a number, has a capacity of 1,500 tonnes. Each barge carries the equivalent of 50 HGVs—that is 50 lorries off London’s roads—reducing the risk of crashes, congestion, pollution and damage to our road services. This is all very welcome and cleaner, too, and as I say, that means every single barge. Any Member who is on the Terrace at any point over the next three years, enjoying a cup of coffee or tea or something else, will see those barges floating past and heading further along the Thames, where they will be creating environmental habitats for wildlife.
However, there is one issue affecting the Thames that is causing concern: the plan to build a cruise terminal at Enderby Wharf in Greenwich. I do not mean the proposal for the terminal, which is positive—anything that brings more tourists to London is to the benefit of London’s economy and the wider UK, because when tourists get here, they can travel more widely. The problem, however, is how to power these large vessels when they are moored on the Thames between Greenwich and Tower Hamlets. I have been working with my hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) to address local residents’ concerns, and I pay tribute to his campaigning skills and efforts on his constituents’ behalf.
The majority five-to-four planning decision of Greenwich Council to approve the application, which did not require shore-to-ship power, has caused great consternation on both banks among residents. The EFRA Committee has looked at this matter in previous inquiries. Neither the Port of London Authority nor the Environment Agency, the Mayor of London, the Government, or the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, which are all affected by the London Borough of Greenwich’s decision, can alter or amend its approval. The prospect of large cruise ships having to run their equally large diesel engines to power the vessels when they are moored on the river for up to 155 days a year is not positive. Ports on the west coast of the USA, in Scandinavia and in other parts of the EU are bringing in regulations to require shore-to-ship power, called “cold ironing”. Southampton is also looking at this so that ships take the energy from the national grid. Given the challenges of air quality in London, will the Minister advise the House what can be done to make the cruise terminal not just a success, but a clean success?
In conclusion, there is a real risk that we will lose the terminal due to the controversy over this issue. That would be greatly disappointing. We want the investment and the employment, and we would love the tourists. We just do not want it at a dirty price.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
It is a pleasure to contribute to this very welcome debate, and it was a great pleasure, too, to serve on the Joint Committee. My first point is about that Joint Committee: having inquiries that more than one Select Committee can participate in is a very welcome development. I urge the House to consider how more such inquiries might be facilitated. Earlier today we had a statement from the Health and Social Care Committee and the Communities and Local Government Committee on long-term care. Bringing expertise from a range of perspectives is very helpful and I would like to see more of it.
There are five brief points I would like to contribute to the debate. The first picks up on a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), which is that too often we have silo thinking in government and a lack of effective cross-departmental co-operation. It goes further than just policymaking, however. There has to be a change in culture in how schemes are budgeted for and evaluated for cost-effectiveness. Increasingly, we find that where expenditure might lie with one Department the benefit will accrue somewhere else, so it will not show up in the usual Treasury reporting of finances. For example, funding for a transport scheme would come from the Department for Transport or local government, but the Department of Health and Social Care might see the benefits because fewer people suffer conditions relating to poor air quality. I therefore urge the Government to start thinking a little bit more about that.
The second issue I would like to raise—I beg the indulgence of the House, but it is quite a techy point—is the Oslo effect. When we look at particle emissions from cars, too often we focus only on tail-pipe emissions. The Oslo effect occurs from invisible and odourless small particles going into the atmosphere as a result of brakes being applied, rubber tyres wearing down on the road, and even bitumen particles being thrown up when tyres hit the road. It may not sound a lot from any one individual car, but the cumulative effect, particularly in areas with high-sided buildings, can be substantial. Some studies show that only one third of particle emissions from cars actually comes from the tail pipe, with two thirds coming from those other sources.
This is a little bit counter-intuitive and I am certainly not arguing against the uptake of low-emission vehicles and moving to hybrid and electric cars, but like for like, those vehicles are heavier than their petrol or diesel equivalents. Therefore, the Oslo effect is exacerbated by those heavier cars. Manufacturers need to be encouraged to look at making cars as light as possible and to research other substances that could be used in place of rubber for brake pads and tyres. It also affects buses, which are by nature much heavier vehicles. I encourage Members—I declare an interest as chair of the all-party group on trams and light rail—not just to think immediately of buses as the best local transport solution. Trams may have a higher capital investment to begin with, but the savings they might deliver will accrue over a longer period of time. I also chair the all-party group on the Oxford-Milton Keynes-Cambridge corridor, which will be developing many new settlements over the next few decades. Each of those new settlements will have to develop local transport plans. This would be an ideal place to start looking at new and effective public transport solutions that are, as other Members have suggested, not car-centric, and at making it easier for people to walk or cycle to their destinations.
That leads me on to my third point, which is on cycling. I too have started cycling in London, from here to my home in London which happily resides in the constituency of the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick). I too cycle past the monitor that shows how many bikes go past each day. I absolutely encourage people to take up more cycling, but as the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) mentioned one of the biggest changes will come from electric bikes. There is a problem here. In my constituency in Milton Keynes, we have a network called redways, which are segregated from the main roads, for cyclists and pedestrians. At the moment, it is illegal to use an electric bike on them. I am trying to get to the bottom of whether this is a local authority decision or a more national matter.
Dr Whitford
As an electric bike owner—I tried not to take offence at the comments of the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) about electric bike owners—I know that there are two classes of electric bikes, one of which is allowed in cycle lanes and one of which is not. I wonder whether it is that difference about which the hon. Gentleman is hearing.
Iain Stewart
I am very grateful for that information. I was not aware that there were two classes of electric bikes, and I will certainly look into it. I imagine there is a great deal of confusion among people who own or might want to purchase an electric bike, and a bit more clarity might be helpful.
My fourth point concerns the use of new technology. We must always be looking into how new technology might be deployed to reduce transport emissions. I certainly do not want to reopen the debate about Heathrow, but time constraints prevented me from expanding on this subject in my speech on Monday. New technologies are available that will reduce emissions from the existing airport. One example is the TaxiBot, an autonomous electric vehicle which will take planes from the stand to the runway without the need to switch on the aircraft engines.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
I too am aware of various initiatives, but would the hon. Gentleman care to tell us to what extent and by what proportion such initiatives will reduce air pollution, and by when they will be implemented? I do not remember seeing that in the documents from the Department for Transport.
Iain Stewart
I am afraid that I do not have the figures relating to the actual effect, but I do know that the technology to which I have just referred is already being implemented at Frankfurt airport. It is a proven technology, and it does make a difference. I appreciate that it may not deal with the overall, wider issues relating to air quality and airports, but that single step will help.
My final point will be very brief. The diesel scrappage scheme has been mentioned today. I urge caution on that, because it can be a very blunt instrument and can affect less affluent people disproportionately. The Committees received evidence from the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association, which has suggested, for instance, that drivers of polluting diesel vehicles should be offered mobility credits for public transport or electric bikes, rather than a cash sum or a trade-in sum.
Let me end by thanking the Committee’s staff for making our inquiry so enjoyable and thought-provoking. I look forward to the Government’s taking up many of our recommendations.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
I welcome the joint report, the introduction to the debate by the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), and the speeches made by other Chairs and members of the Committees. It is a particular pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), who focused on particulates. We must not forget that, even if we all move to electric vehicles very soon, there will still be particulates from brake linings, from the road surface itself and from tyres.
I share the concern that has been repeatedly expressed by the Committee members who have spoken today about the lack of action and serious commitment from the Government on the important issue of air quality. Unlike the Governments of comparable countries, the UK Government seem to be taking this country back by decades. As co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on cycling—along with the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), who is no longer present—I particularly welcome the report’s recommendations on active travel. It points out that walking and cycling are not only good for our physical health, but for our mental health. However, they also make good business sense. Let me give two examples.
First, we know that streets in which pedestrians and bikes have priority over cars, which are either permanently or partially excluded, are more commercially successful, as they tend to contain busy shops and places to eat and drink, and low vacancy rates.
Secondly, when the east-west super-cycle highway that goes past this building was at risk of stalling under the previous London Mayor, now the Foreign Secretary, it was a group of big City companies that pushed to restart that project because they recognised that their staff who cycled into work had lower sickness rates and were more productive at work. They were making a clear business link with more walking and more cycling.
We also have responsibilities as a place where people come to visit for all sorts of meetings. I was concerned to hear that we have been alerted to a change of policy on security in this House. Of course, security is paramount. However, for many years, visitors with folding bikes have been able to bring them to their meetings in this House, and they are now being told by security that they cannot do so. People with Bromptons do not generally go around with bike locks, so they do not have the option at security to take them out and lock them on a nearby cycle rack. That certainly concerns me.
I now want to move on to my own constituency. The local air quality is particularly poor. The A4, the M4 and the A316—the London end of the M3—all pass through our area, which is frequently in breach of air quality limits. Our schools are alert to this issue. St Mary’s Catholic primary school in Chiswick, one of two schools alongside the A4 and one of 50 across London identified as needing an air quality audit by the London Mayor, is now considering a green wall against the A4 and air purifiers, but both of those cost money to install and maintain. Without action by local, regional and national government, St Mary’s children will continue to breathe in air that is poisoning them as they learn and play.
I am proud of the work that the London Borough of Hounslow is doing on this issue. Last week, it held an anti-idling event outside St Mary’s, with volunteers from the school and parents approaching drivers in cars who were sitting there waiting for children with their engines idling and warning them of the dangers of this. Hounslow is enforcing idling hotspots in the borough. It is working with GPs to promote an air quality text service for people with lung and heart problems, who are most affected when air pollution levels get high, to warn them not to go outside—not an ideal solution because it does not deal with the actual problem. Hounslow is also rolling out electric vehicle on-street charging columns and providing free cycle training.
Through the Greater London Authority, the London Mayor is rolling out his ultra-low emission zone. I would like it to go further out towards the M25, but it is a good start. There is also the T-charge, and Mayor Khan is promoting low and zero-emission bus fleets. But all this is not enough without a Government who are taking the issue seriously, with real legislative action. Given that the UK has consistently been in breach of the nitrogen dioxide limits since they became binding in 2010, the Government should not merely enable but enforce, and take action to bring the UK within those limits. A targeted diesel scrappage scheme, as the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South said, should not punish those on low incomes and should be nuanced. We also need a comprehensive 21st-century clean air Act.
I cannot sit down without mentioning the runway 3 expansion. The Government cannot be in compliance with air quality limits and allow the expansion of Heathrow airport. That would increase nitrous oxide emissions by 26% above “do nothing”, according to the airports commission that the Government themselves set up. In the Government’s announcement on the draft national policy statement last year, the Secretary of State said that a third runway would put the UK in breach of air quality standards, but in his announcement on Monday he said that it could be achieved while remaining compliant. A similar argument was being made 10 years ago, yet the area is still consistently exceeding air quality limits.
There is no credible explanation from the Secretary of State for Transport as to how Heathrow can expand and compliance be achieved. Furthermore, in all the cost-benefit analysis the Department has done it has not monetised the health impacts on the local population. Moreover, polluting emissions from planes are undoubtedly part of the mix but are seldom mentioned in policy documents. The reality is, however, that the bulk of the air pollution around Heathrow is from vehicular traffic, and a lot of that traffic is connected with airport operations and associated business. Heathrow Airport Holdings Ltd said runway 3 could be built and have 50% more passengers and twice the amount of cargo business without any more vehicular traffic. There is no modelling to justify this incredible statement. Neither the airport nor the Government are prepared to fund more transport infrastructure. Only Transport for London has done the modelling, and it has clearly demonstrated to the Transport Committee that Heathrow’s assertion is impossible to achieve. In any case, new rail infrastructure is being discussed. Crossrail is coming online soon, and we are still dithering about the western and southern rail links, which are needed now with the current demands from people going in and out of Heathrow airport to work and travel.
The Government have already lost three legal challenges on their air quality policies, not unconnected with Heathrow. As I have said, there is growing evidence of the ground impact of pollution from planes. How is expanding Heathrow, in an area of the country already consistently in breach of legal limits on air quality, doing anything to stop the UK going back to being the dirty man of Europe?
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) on setting the scene for us all as he so often does, and it is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury). We have a clear difference of opinion on Heathrow, but that is by the way; I appreciate her comments, and I appreciate the efforts of all the Members who have made valuable contributions so far and those who will do so later.
As a country sports enthusiast, conservation is a core principle that I adhere to, as do all country sports enthusiasts. How to improve our environment and preserve what we have is a key theme. Some 3 million people per year die due to air pollution worldwide and 40,000 people die early deaths as a result of pollutants such as nitrogen dioxide in the UK every year, with the nitrogen dioxide limit values having been unlawfully breached since 2010, as has been said.
The Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee’s “Tenth Special Report” lists many effects of exposure to air pollution, ranging from cardiovascular diseases to premature birth. It also states that it is children and older people who suffer the most, as exposure to air pollution can result in stunted growth or affect the normal growth of lungs or lead to a child being born prematurely and facing the risk of death during the first year of life as a result of respiratory illness. For older people, there can be accelerated decline in lung function and an increased risk of lung cancer. That means that pollution is becoming more dangerous for the population of the UK as we are an ageing society with about 23% of the population aged 60 and above. If there needs to be a reason for doing something and for this report being followed up by Government today, that is it.
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
I had hoped to be present earlier to contribute to the debate, but may I, in agreeing with the hon. Gentleman, ask if he will acknowledge that many of us face planning applications for large-scale housing and other developments in our constituencies—in my case, there is an application involving 600 houses and a new branch of Ikea which would lead to 2 million customer journeys a year on the busiest road in Sussex—yet air quality factors seem to feature very low in consideration of such planning applications? Does he agree that, for all the reasons he mentioned, these factors should receive a much higher priority in our assessment of whether applications are sustainable for the local population?
Jim Shannon
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. There is a major development application in my constituency at Comber town for 800 houses. Infrastructure is an important consideration: how the roads will work and whether they can take the increased number of journeys, and whether the schools and hospitals can take it. They are all critical factors, and air quality should be considered in looking at these big questions.
Given the vulnerability of older people to pollution, it is important to improve air quality so that we can reduce the number of deaths and address the issue. There should be Government support for renewable energy, which would limit the use of fossil fuels so that harmful substances such as nitrous oxide, sulphur dioxide and carbon dioxide would not be produced in large amounts and air quality would be improved. That is the very issue that the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) referred to his intervention. I was supportive of the SeaGen initiative in Strangford Lough in my constituency, which would provide clean energy. It was a really good project, and the pilots were successful but unfortunately the funding to take it further did not happen.
The formation of a thriving public transport system is a major way of improving air quality. I hail from a rural constituency in Strangford, where there are no trains or tubes. There are only buses, and they are infrequent owing to the low population in the area. That means that there is a lot of work to be done there. For some of my constituents, taking a five-minute phone call at the end of the day could mean that they return home an hour late. The bus service is obviously not as frequent as it is here in London and elsewhere. There must be greater ring-fenced funding for public transport in rural areas. This would allow public transport to run at a loss for a longer period, to enable people to understand that the public transport system could merge with their working day and work-life balance needs. This is about striking a balance in the rural community. Public transport needs to be financially viable but it also needs to provide a service.
I completely concur with the recommendation that the Government give priority funding to infrastructure that would help us to meet air quality objectives. Examples include the cycling and walking investment strategy, the Transforming Cities fund and the initiatives to support the uptake of ultra-low emission vehicles. The Bus Services Act 2017 includes a range of measures to improve bus services through franchising and better partnership working. It is also great news that £48 million has been supplied for the new ultra-low emission bus scheme to enable local authorities and bus operators to purchase ultra-low emission buses and support infrastructure. I give credit to the Committee and its report, and also to the Government for the initiatives that they have set in place. That is not enough, however.
Infrastructure that aids in improving these programmes would help by reducing idling and journeys, with low-emission buses aiding the fulfilment of the programme and allowing for superior air quality throughout the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This would improve the quality of life for those who may be vulnerable, and those who are vulnerable, to pollution, but there needs to be a focus on rural areas. With respect to those who have spoken so far in the debate, the majority have talked about urban areas. I am not saying that they should not do so, because that is where the problems are, but we need to look at the bigger picture and see how these problems affect rural areas as well. Comber town, which I mentioned earlier, is a small rural town, and the impact of 800 houses will be quite large. I am not saying that that should not happen; I am saying that we need to prepare for it. In the large metropolitan areas of the UK, the amount of road pollution is substantial. The initiative to introduce low-emission buses will not resolve that issue, but it will lessen its severity.
I agree with the response that indicates that there will be air quality monitoring in key areas of local communities such as schools, care homes and hospitals. In fact, this is already in place in Northern Ireland, where air quality monitoring is carried out by the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, along with district councils. Two monitoring stations, at Lombard Street in Belfast and Brooke Park in Londonderry, are the only stations that measure multiple pollutants, but many other places carry out monitoring, making information widely available for all who need it.
I welcome the £3.5 billion investment that has been provided for the clean air strategy, which aims to cut all forms of air pollution, with recommendations from the World Health Organisation, and introduces primary legislation to grant local government the ability to take decisive action to solve any issues. We cannot ignore what is happening elsewhere in the world. The report focuses on what is happening in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but there are other partners and countries across the world that need to play their part as well. If we are playing our part here, they need to play their part as well.
The biggest causes of pollution in Northern Ireland are road traffic and domestic emissions. These can be curbed, and many attempts are being made to do that. Less reliance on fossil fuels and more on renewable resources will allow Northern Ireland to decrease the amount of pollution emitted as a result of domestic life. If Northern Ireland adopted a clean bus programme, as I believe it should, and tried to convince as many people as possible to take public transport, the pollution resulting from road traffic would be curbed as well, which would improve the overall air quality of the country.
Furthermore, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs here has recommended the establishment of a new environmental protection agency which would be tasked with holding the Government to account once the UK has left the EU. When that is done, will there be direct contact with regional Governments, Assemblies and Parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? It has also been recommended that provisions for the agency should be written into legislation, with powers, standards and enforcement mechanisms equivalent to those of such enforcement agencies in the EU.
Given the standstill in the Northern Ireland Assembly, the environment is also losing out. The introduction of renewable energy schemes would help resolve the issue, as less reliance on and usage of fossil fuels will lessen pollution. The money spent on initiatives such as the beautiful Comber Greenway in my constituency, which allows people to ride their bikes safely from Comber into Belfast off the main roads, helps not only the environment but people’s health. That Sustrans project has been immensely successful. The newly improved, widened and lengthened Comber Greenway can now be enjoyed not only in Strangford but in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson)—seven miles of walking, cycling and running.
Recent improvements have widened Comber Greenway to 4 metres along key parts of the route, helping encourage more people to engage in active and sustainable travel—a key aspect of the draft programme for government framework and a result of the recently published “Outcomes Delivery Plan”.
Comber Greenway is a highly used, traffic-free route for many cyclists, walkers and runners, connecting east Belfast with Comber. The investment of almost £600,000 should encourage many more people to consider active travel. There are hopes to further extend Comber Greenway towards Newtownards to allow more people in that commuter town to choose a healthier and more stress-free way of getting to work, so that they help the environment and themselves.
These schemes are funded by infrastructure budgets as well as communities. They are a wonderful way of improving air quality and health. I look forward to the Minister’s response. It is important that we do something to improve air quality not only in towns, but in rural communities.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
One of the first big steps forward on air quality came after the great smog of 1952, when 4,000 people died within five days and 8,000 died in the following weeks. From that came the Clean Air Act 1956, which reduced pollution, particularly from coal, coming from industrial and domestic sources. However, in the 50 years since, traffic pollution has soared. Some 70% of UK towns and cities are defined as unsafe, with 37 out of 43 clean air zones failing on nitrous dioxides. There is a road in Lambeth that, every single year since 2010, has reached the number of breaches it is allowed in a year by the end of January.
The issue is not only about nitrous dioxides. Particulates have been mentioned—the 10 micrometres, and, more particularly, the 2.5 micrometres. These tiny particles get much further into the lungs and cause more damage. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, that damage particularly affects children and older people. Some 4.5 million children—a third of them—are exposed to unsafe levels. If they live near a busy road, they have twice the rate of respiratory problems. We are talking not only about asthma, the obvious one, but about reduced lung development and—if mothers were exposed during pregnancy—reduced brain development. Such things will lay down the quality of a child’s life before they are even born. Among older people, particulates increase the deterioration in lung function, as well as causing ischemic heart disease, increased rates of dementia and stroke.
Pressure in this country has developed only because of the threat of legal action from the EU last year; the can has been kicked down the road for years. The UK and eight other countries are facing legal action from the EU unless they get serious and radical. We would consider countries such as Germany and France, particularly Germany, to have good public transport. There is a particular need to invest in trains and trams—and in rural areas, in buses. Since transport was deregulated in the 1980s, Strathclyde in the west of Scotland has gone from having an integrated network of trains, tubes and buses to simply a free-for-all of ancient diesel buses all crowding the same roads. We have gone backwards in the past 40 years, and we need to go forwards. In rural areas, it is buses that are important. When it is just left to private companies, small villages quickly lose their bus services, which is not acceptable. We should be radical, and we should look at cities such as Copenhagen, which ripped up a ring road and turned it into a safe cycle route. We need things like that.
We heard from the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) that the cost of lung disease caused by poor air quality is £20 billion, yet we invest less than 5% of that amount in active travel infrastructure. As I said in an intervention, it comes down to health in all policies.
Andrew Selous
The hon. Lady has mentioned Copenhagen. Is she aware that 30% of all journeys in Amsterdam are by bicycle, compared with 2% in London? That came about through a real effort of political will many years ago to recreate the city to be fit for cycling.
Dr Whitford
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. My understanding is that 50% of journeys in Copenhagen are now made by bicycle. But this does require investment in infrastructure.
The hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) mentioned a new tunnel at Silvertown. The Clyde tunnel was finished in 1963 and it consists of two circular tunnels, with the road deck about a third of the way up and room for cyclists, pedestrians and ventilation underneath. That was back in the ’60s. We need to make sure we are not investing in hugely expensive tunnels that go against active transport.
It is about health in all policies. Decisions are made in silos, even in this place. We make decisions on different days that counteract each other, which is frustrating. If we had physical health and mental wellbeing as an overarching principle like human rights, people sitting in our town halls and here would focus not on cars, on how they drive and how they park—that is the focus in our towns and cities at the moment—but on people. We would design safe, segregated cycle routes, and we would have much wider pavements on which children could ride their scooters, and on which people with prams or wheelchairs would not be crowded out—people would not need to step into the roadway to pass them. When we have such glorious and, in Scotland, very unusual sunny weather, it would also create an environment in which cafés could be outside. People would walk around their town centres and meet their neighbours, which would contribute to a sense of belonging and community. I would love to see health and wellbeing as the driving force in every decision made by town halls, national Government and Westminster on how we design our towns and cities.
Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
I feel privileged to respond to this debate for the Opposition. This is my first time at the Dispatch Box, and I am glad we have had such a good debate, with valuable points made and much agreement on both sides of the House, and with most of my speech helpfully already made by others. I will pay tribute to Members as I go through.
In particular, I pay tribute to the superb report from the four Select Committees and to the points raised by the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) and by my hon. Friends the Members for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) and for Wakefield (Mary Creagh). I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield on the MP of the year award she was rightly given at the BusinessGreen leaders awards last night.
We can take two things from this debate. First, there is cross-party consensus that a crisis in air quality has been building for many years. Secondly, a number of voices from all sides, all parties and organisations are saying that the Government have been too slow in addressing this crisis and that more needs to be done. My west country neighbour, the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton, said that bold action is absent, and he is right.
It is not an understatement to say poor air quality is a genuine public health emergency in our towns. We know that poor air quality and air pollution is linked to cancer, asthma, stroke and heart disease. As we have heard today from my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield and from the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton, poor air quality contributes to the early death of 40,000 people a year. That is 40,000 mums and dads, grandparents, brothers and sisters, and sons and daughters. These are not just statistics; each represents a family tragedy, many of which could be avoided with faster, better, more comprehensive and bold action from Ministers. We are talking about 13 deaths while this debate has been going on. Even the Government accept that they need to do more, so the challenge is: why are they not and can they do better now?
On legal limits, one of the most damning aspects of the Select Committees’ report was the comments from the UN special rapporteur, who said he was
“alarmed that despite repeated judicial instruction, the UK government continues to flout its duty to ensure adequate air quality and protect the rights to life and health of its citizens. It has violated its obligations”.
Last year, the Evening Standard found that pollution in more than 50 sites in London had breached EU limits. Further evidence from across the country shows that is happening not just in the capital, but across the UK. As we have heard today, it is not just in towns and cities, but in rural areas.
Sadly, the Government have had to be dragged through the courts, failing three times on air quality—in April 2015, November 2016 and February this year, when Mr Justice Garnham declared the Government’s failure to require action from 45 local authorities with illegal levels of air pollution in their area “unlawful”. It should not take the courts to get the Government to act on this. I appreciate that the Minister was not in his post at the time, but the Government he represents were.
A recent freedom of information request revealed that the Government have spent £500,000 fighting and losing dirty air court cases, with the most recent costing them £148,135. When we have got nothing from the VW emissions scandal, it is doubly concerning that this money the Government have spent on lawyers could have been spent on mitigations. It could have been spent on walking and cycling, on protecting primary schools from polluting roads or on promoting action on dirty diesel.
We have heard today about particulate matter, which needs further debate. We have heard a lot about PM2.5 and PM10, but there is too little research and often too little focus on the harmful effects of nanoparticles, which are even smaller than PM2.5, and especially on the potential harm of magnetic nanoparticles entering the brain. I encourage the Minister to set out what he thinks can be done to undertake further research on nanoparticles in particular.
Mary Creagh
My hon. Friend has given me something else to worry about on my Committee—I thought it was just nanoplastics we had to be worried about. Does he agree that, whether we are discussing plastics in the ocean or pollution in the air, we have to stop treating our environment—our rivers and our air—as one great big garbage dump, because we are conducting a massive experiment on ourselves and on the planet, and we do not know where it is going to end?
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is exactly right and we need to talk about that much more. When we get into the detail of what is being said on not just plastics, but particles and air quality—the air we breathe and the things we throw away—we see that more and more education can produce better results.
In today’s debate, we have heard far too many examples of young people being exposed to harmful levels of particulate matter, as well as carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide and low level ozone. Our young people deserve better than breathing poor air, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) is right to say that breathing clean air should be a human right. Exposure to PM2.5 should not exceed 10 micrograms per cubic metre of air, according to the World Health Organisation, but in my Plymouth constituency the figure is 12 micrograms. In Saltash, just over the river, it is 11— the annual mean is 18 and 15 respectively.
Prince Rock Primary School, on my patch, knows all about that, as it is located on a busy road. We have heard from many other hon. Members about schools close to busy roads that are affected by poor air quality. Does the Minister have a similar school in his constituency? How many other Members have schools in areas of illegal air quality? The air quality close to our schools does matter. It matters to our young people. What is being done to educate teachers, children and parents about the risk of air pollution? As my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) mentioned, turning engines off while idling can help, and walking or cycling to school can make a positive difference. These things all add up, but if initiatives such as the daily mile are through areas with poor air quality, the effect and positive contribution of that work can be limited. All our children deserve to breathe clean air.
The Government must not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. That is why what we have heard today about the VW emissions scandal should concern us all. The failure to ban diesel and petrol engines early enough was also mentioned by a number of hon. Members. Britain must wean itself off dirty diesel for cars and trains. As the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) highlighted, the British Heart Foundation has found that even short-term inhalation of elevated concentrations of particulate matter increases the risk of heart attack occurring in just 24 hours, but the UK’s current legal limits for particulate matter are much less stringent than those of the World Health Organisation.
The flagship measure in the Government’s July 2017 air quality report was a pledge to ban new sales of conventional diesel and petrol cars by 2040. That is 22 years and more than four full-term Parliaments away. I wager not many of us will be in the House in 2040, such was the long-grassing of the commitment to finally get that introduced. However, it did not go far enough because hybrid sales would still be ignored. The Government have said themselves that
“almost all new cars and vans sold need to be near-zero emission at the tailpipe by 2040”
if they are to hit their air quality targets.
The Government’s lacklustre pledge was criticised by Mayors such as Sadiq Khan and Andy Street. We are in the slow lane when Britain should be leading. As my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South highlighted so expertly, the plan for the UK to ban petrol, diesel and most hybrid cars by 2040 has been watered down, with Ministers now referring to it as a “mission”, and the much trumpeted “Road to Zero” strategy has been plagued with delays. Perhaps the Minister could explain what a “mission” is. It is not quite a commitment, less than a pledge, certainly not legally binding, perhaps more than a hope and a prayer, but not quite a plan. A mission simply is not good enough.
The Secretary of State for Transport has cancelled rail electrification, something rightly criticised in the recent Transport Committee report. Without rail electrification projects, Britain’s railways are still going to run on dirty diesel for many, many years to come.
We have heard today that the Government far too often work in silos. It is simply not good enough for DEFRA to push out press releases on air quality while the Department for Transport is busy pushing back commitments on diesel engines and cancelling electrification schemes. It does not have to be like this. Members have highlighted the urgent need for a clean air Act, and I am proud to say that Labour would introduce one. We will act on air pollution and deliver clean air for the many, not just the few. That really matters because, as the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire said, this is about social justice. The links are there for all to see between poverty and poor air quality, and between the injustices of poorer communities breathing in poor-quality air and the shame that far too little has been done to help them.
The fact that the poorest communities are hit by the worst air pollution should shame this Government and shame our society. This issue goes right to the heart of inequality: if someone is poorer, the air that they breathe is of a lower standard than the air breathed by someone richer. That should be simply unacceptable in 2018. We need to be bold and tackle this invisible threat head on. Communities throughout the UK are suffering now, and if we do not deal with this, we will leave future generations with poorer health, poorer outcomes and more pollution to deal with. That is simply not acceptable.
The Committee on Climate Change reported today, 10 years after the Climate Change Act was delivered by a Labour Government, and it has delivered a damning verdict on this Government’s record. On air quality specifically, it doubles down on the point that we are not doing enough to modernise our transport sector, particularly the car industry. The report finds that the UK is on track to miss its legally binding carbon budgets in 2025 and 2030, due to lack of progress on cutting emissions from buildings and transport in particular. Lord Deben has said that the Government’s pledge to end the sale of pure petrol and diesel cars by 2040 is not ambitious enough, and he believes it is essential that we move the target closer to 2030, as do the Opposition.
We are not short of soundbites or press releases from DEFRA about air quality, but I say to the Minister that it is not the presentation that is at fault; it is the content, the substance, the plans, the action, the funding and the urgency. We all know what needs to be done, so I encourage him and his Department to get on with it.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his maiden speech from the Dispatch Box.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (David Rutley)
I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) on his excellent speech from the Dispatch Box; I am sure we will hear much more from him in the weeks and months ahead. Well done. Like many other Members, he raised very important issues.
I congratulate those Members who secured and took part in this debate, particularly the Chairs and Members of the four Select Committees, on their detailed and thoughtful joint report on this crucial issue. I recognise all the hard work that must have taken place to get four Select Committees to agree on a consistent position. That must be highly unusual, if not unprecedented. [Interruption.] I hear the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) say “exactly” from a sedentary position. It is because it is an important issue and we recognise that. I can reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) that the Government have an active programme to tackle this issue, and that there is plenty of oomph in the tank—[Interruption.] Yes, let’s go with the battery.
In January this year, showing our ambition, this Government published our 25-year environment plan, which set out our vision to be the first generation to leave the environment in a better state than we found it. As we leave the EU, we have committed to ensure that our environmental standards are not only maintained, but enhanced.
The very first goal that we set ourselves in the 25-year plan was clean air. Its importance is beyond question. Air pollution—whether from transport, domestic heating or agriculture—affects us all. It is the fourth biggest threat to public health in the UK, after cancer, obesity and heart disease, and that has been highlighted by many Members today, not least by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) and by my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), and this Government are absolutely committed to tackling it.
There has been progress. Air pollution has reduced significantly since 2010: sulphur dioxide emissions are down by 60%, fine particulate matter, which we all have concerns about, has been reduced by 11%, and emissions of toxic nitrogen oxides are at their lowest level since records began. However, there is no doubt that more needs to be done, and that message has come across loud and clear from the eloquent contributions we have heard in this debate. We are doing more, and we will continue to do so.
We have committed £3.5 billion in funding already for cleaner air and cleaner transport. That money includes almost £1.5 billion to support the uptake off ultra low emission vehicles—one of the most comprehensive programmes of support in the world. The UK is already acknowledged as a global leader in ultra low emission vehicles: one in eight battery electric cars sold in Europe in 2017 was made in the UK. We have said that we want every new car and van to be effectively zero emission by 2040 and that we will end the sale of new conventional petrol and diesel cars and vans by that date.
Lilian Greenwood
Has the Minister not reflected on the views of both the joint report of the Select Committees, which called for that date to be brought forward, and of Lord Deben who this morning talked about the Government’s climate change commitments and called again for that date to be brought forward to 2030. Are the Government not listening to the views that are being expressed?
David Rutley
We are listening. We have seriously considered the points that have been made, and this is an ambitious target. It is very much ahead of what is going on in other parts of the world. There are only six other countries that are ahead of us in proposing those targets.
Mary Creagh
A third of Norway’s vehicle fleet are electric vehicles—actual cars and not the bicycles that I was joking about earlier. It plans to ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025. This is a country that was founded on the oil and gas industry and a country whose sovereign wealth fund is now withdrawing from all oil and gas investments. Why can we not show similar leadership in this country?
David Rutley
I understand the hon. Lady’s point. We are taking forward a very strong commitment. As I have said, only six other countries—
David Rutley
If the hon. Lady will let me, I would like to answer her question. Only six other countries in the world are moving more quickly than the UK on ending petrol and diesel, and the UK is moving faster than almost every other country in the EU, as well as many other countries such as the US and Australia.
The £3.5 billion investment also includes £1.2 billion of available funding for the first ever statutory cycling and walking investment strategy. I know that that has been raised by a number of Members who have talked about what we can do to improve the take-up of cycling and walking. I think that, perhaps, there has been an over representation of the cycling lobby today. As a former member of the mountaineering all-party parliamentary group, the pinnacle of APPGs, we need to speak up for walkers as well. I know that the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) fully agrees with me on that important point.
Dr Whitford
Does the Minister recognise, however, the disparity between the cost to the Government through ill health and the amount that is being spent on active transport, be it cycling or walking?
David Rutley
There is more that we need to do, but the £1.2 billion funding in the cycling and walking investment strategy is a first important step, and we need to build on that—no question.
A number of important issues have been raised throughout the debate, and I will address some of them in the time remaining. One issue that has been highlighted is that of what we can do to help raise people’s awareness of the health challenges around air quality. There were important contributions on this topic from my hon. Friends the Members for Erewash (Maggie Throup) and for South West Bedfordshire, the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw), and the hon. Members for Wakefield, for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) and for Strangford (Jim Shannon). Through the clean air strategy, we are committed to a national information campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of air pollution. We will introduce a personal messaging system to ensure that those who are most at risk receive the information that they need about pollution risks. Public Health England is currently reviewing evidence of the effectiveness of different interventions, and will report its findings to Ministers later this year. This will include advice on the factors affecting behaviour change around air quality.
The Committees have called for a new clean air Act. As announced in our clean air strategy, we will set out new primary legislation to secure a more coherent legislative framework for action to tackle air pollution.
Neil Parish
The Minister talks about new legislation. Is that going to be a clean air Act? It is not quite clear.
David Rutley
I was just trying to explain what this new primary legislation would include. Perhaps I could progress so that my hon. Friend can see what this will lead to.
The new legislation will be underpinned by new England-wide powers to control major sources of pollution, plus new local powers to take action in areas with air pollution problems. For example, in our clean air strategy consultation we are seeking views on giving local authorities new powers to control emissions from domestic combustion, biomass and non-road mobile machinery.
David Rutley
A number of Members have mentioned the importance of tackling particulate matter. We need to look at all avenues, including wood-burning stoves. The Government have introduced programmes that help people to become more aware of the right wood to burn—that is, wood with a lower moisture content. We need to take this sort of approach to raise people’s awareness, so that they can see what needs to be done to help reduce particulate matter.
I am conscious of the time available. Perhaps I could highlight some of the local issues that have been mentioned. The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth made some important points about anti-idling campaigns, and I recognise the good work that has been done in that area by Westminster City Council. There has been a lot of talk about electric bikes and what we must do to make people more aware of where they can and cannot use those cycles. My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) was absolutely right to say that we need to look not only at emissions, but at tyres and brakes, because of the resulting particulate matter.
David Rutley
For the last time, because I am conscious that I need to wind up very shortly.
Neil Parish
As we are talking about particulates and pollution from nitric oxide, what about the Volkswagen scandal? Why have we not got any money out of that company?
David Rutley
My hon. Friend knows, through his service on his Committee, that this is quite a complex issue. There are complex legal and jurisdictional matters that need to be addressed, particularly when it comes to the response to VW’s wrongdoing.
David Rutley
I hear “oomph” from a sedentary position; I will not respond to that again. The vast majority of the potential wrongdoing in the case my hon. Friend mentions occurred in Germany, and the German Government have held VW to account there. There are different regulations in the United States, meaning that it is easier for the US authorities to secure funding from there. We want to ensure that the automotive industry makes more of a contribution.
We need to work in partnership to tackle the problem that we have discussed today, and we are absolutely committed to doing that. We want to work across all levels of government, as has been highlighted today, and with local authorities, businesses, farmers, industry and households to tackle air pollution. I know that there is real enthusiasm across the House, and we need to use that momentum to good effect. I would like to conclude by recognising the important contribution made by the joint inquiry’s report and pay tribute to the quality of the speeches we have heard today. The House can be assured that the Government will continue to engage with the Select Committees on this vital issue in the months ahead.
Neil Parish
I would like to thank all Members for their contributions this afternoon. This House is at its best when we work across the parties and across Committees, as we have done to deliver this verdict on air quality. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Scott Mann) said, the Government want to leave this country and this planet in a better environmental condition than we found them in, and air quality is essential in delivering that. If we are going to deliver a better quality of life for poor and rich alike, we have to make sure that we tackle air quality.
We have had contributions from Members representing urban areas where there is a concentration of pollution, and we must deal with those hotspots. We have also had contributions from Members representing rural areas where roads and other things are causing real problems in towns. We have to make sure that our planning system for not only roads but housing takes account of the need to increase air quality and get rid of pollution.
Working together, we can deliver this. We want to see this Government and others go forward. The Secretary of State is very keen to deliver a much cleaner environment. We must now concentrate on air quality, and not only on transport, bikes and walking but all the ways in which we can put this right. I thank everybody who has contributed to the debate. I think we will make a difference, and we must.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the Joint Report of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Environmental Audit, Health and Social Care and Transport Committees, Improving Air Quality, HC 433, and calls on the Government to adopt its recommendations as part of its Clean Air Strategy.
Advisory Committee on Business Appointments
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the Thirteenth Report of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, HC 252, Managing Ministers’ and officials’ conflicts of interest: time for clearer values, principles and action, on the role and effectiveness of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (ACoBA); notes that ACoBA regulates applications for business appointments by former Ministers and civil servants who have recently left the public sector; believes that ACoBA is an ineffectual regulator which fails to inspire public confidence or respect; expresses concern that the Committee’s inquiry revealed numerous gaps in ACoBA’s monitoring process with insufficient attention paid to the principles that should govern business appointments; agrees that failures of consecutive governments to address ACoBA’s deficiencies have damaged public trust in politics and public institutions and led to repeated scandals; calls on the Government to bring forward major reform by introducing a principles-based system to ensure that individuals act with integrity and behave according to those principles; and further calls on the Government to fund independent checks by ACoBA across all Government departments and executive agencies to reinforce those principles.
It is the role of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee to oversee the UK’s changing constitution and the efficiency of the civil service and the machinery of government. Within that, PACAC covers matters of ethics and propriety in Whitehall, overseeing the work of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, the ministerial code, the special advisers code, the civil service code and the work of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, which oversees the rules governing departing Ministers and Crown servants when they take up outside appointments. PACAC has defined its overriding purpose, to quote from our website:
“to conduct robust and effective scrutiny in order to help create conditions where the public can have justified confidence in public services/government.”
In that context, just before the election, PACAC published a new report on ACoBA, entitled “Managing Ministers’ and officials’ conflicts of interest: time for clearer values, principles and action”.
In this House we do not work for ourselves. Our system of government relies on the principle that we who are intertwined with power act only when it is in the public and national interest. The vast majority of public servants do their best, and I certainly understand that. The business appointment rules exist to prevent the conflicts of interest that can arise when former Ministers, special advisers or officials—especially those with high-level Government experience—are looking to take up appointments in the private sector. I am afraid that there are rightly public concerns when senior officials move directly into sectors over which they had until recently had control and influence, including suspicions that the decisions they took may have been influenced by the hope or expectation of future employment or that a future employer could use official information that they had access to.
The Advisory Committee on Business Appointments—or ACoBA, as it is known for short—is appointed by the Government to advise on the implementation of these rules. The ministerial code requires former Ministers, for two years after leaving office, to consult ACoBA about any employment or consultancy they are looking to take up. ACoBA may recommend that an individual wait for up to two years before taking up a specific appointment, or that they do not undertake types of work falling into specific categories up to the two-year limit. However, the business rules themselves are largely procedural: they do not make explicit when or how former Ministers or officials can or cannot legitimately make use of their prior experience.
In 2014, the rules were updated so that only officials at director general, or equivalent, and above now need to apply to ACoBA. Senior grades below that level are now managed by individual Departments and agencies. There was also a change to retrospective applications, which are no longer accepted. Having to make a decision after a contract had been signed and an appointment taken up was seen as a possible constraint on ACoBA’s scope to advise, because how could it advise on something that had already happened? The updated rules also allowed Departments to continue to pay former officials and special advisers who are required to observe a quarantine period before taking up their new roles. ACoBA has stated that whether or not this pay is available, it will not affect its decision.
PACAC, which I chair, has concluded that ACoBA is a “toothless regulator”. There are serious problems with the system as it currently operates. A number of these problems are institutional, deriving from ACoBA’s structure and the practical realities of how it must function. I wish to make it absolutely clear in this debate that I am not making any personal criticism of the chair or any members of ACoBA. The committee comprises both political appointments and independent members. However, despite Baroness Browning, its chair, telling PACAC that she wanted
“every bus driver and hairdresser…to apply”
to be an independent member of ACoBA, its composition remains dominated by the great and the good. This is unsurprising given that the criteria for the role include senior level experience in the civil service, the military or business, which is hardly something possessed by most bus drivers or hairdressers. Furthermore, independent members also hold senior posts in the sorts of companies in which those applying to ACoBA may well be seeking to gain employment. There are notable examples of when these independent members have failed to recuse themselves, despite what would appear to be obvious conflicts of interest when considering cases.
Moreover, for lower grades of civil servant—their applications are managed not by ACoBA, but by their own Departments or agencies—what is known as the revolving door is essentially self-regulating. It is not impossible that civil servants, knowing any precedent they set by judging on a particular case might have an impact on their later careers, could unintentionally or otherwise approve appointments that perhaps deserved more scrutiny. However, civil servants in lower grades can still have significant influence in areas where potential conflicts of interest could arise, such as policy development or procurement decisions. Some may have had senior responsible owner roles, where they have taken responsibility for the management of substantial projects with sizeable budgets, and the private sector finds such experience very valuable. With the increasing interchange between Whitehall Departments and the private sector, this problem is growing.
Putting the problems of scope and propriety to one side, ACoBA simply lacks the powers to allow it to do its job effectively. As the advisory part of its name suggests, ACoBA cannot prevent an individual taking up an appointment, and it has no power to sanction anyone who ignores its recommendations. It makes a recommendation only when an appointment has been accepted, and does not make ex ante stipulations about the types of employment an individual may or may not engage in. It therefore relies on individuals coming to it for advice or with an application. It has very little capacity to investigate those who do not do so or to monitor non-compliance. We were told that ACoBA found that LinkedIn was a more comprehensive source of the employment histories of former officials than the disclosures of those officials themselves.
With resources failing to keep pace with ACoBA’s increased caseload, this embarrassing state of affairs is unlikely to change, meaning that a body intended to improve public trust in government will have to continue to trawl social media for vital information. Evidence shows that ACoBA is simply not being taken seriously. Frequently, applicants have taken up their role before ACoBA has considered their case and made any recommendations, and sometimes these recommendations are simply ignored. We were told that too many former Ministers and officials viewed ACoBA as a rubber stamp before pursuing a lucrative corporate career that might be perceived to conflict with their previous public responsibilities.
Departments take responsibility for those below ACoBA’s threshold, but we were told that monitoring was inconsistent and some agencies failed to publish the required data completely. There is evidence that this can result in too close a relationship between certain Departments and the companies working in related industries. Freedom of information requests in 2012 found that more than 3,500 former senior military officers and Ministry of Defence officials had been approved for arms company jobs since 1996. There might be nothing intrinsically wrong with those appointments, but the failure to have any sanction over them results in a lack of public confidence.
In the absence of a robust system of regulation, high-profile cases, such as that of the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, threaten public confidence in the integrity of government. I make no comment about Mr Osborne, but after leaving government he accepted a post with the BlackRock Investment Institute, part of the investment management company the BlackRock Investment Group. As Chancellor, he had had contact with BlackRock and its competitors in the field. Significantly, as Chancellor, he had introduced the Taxation of Pensions Act 2014, which materially benefited BlackRock.
Our report made no comment on Mr Osborne’s conduct, except to document that he had taken up the appointment, but it raises questions about how effective the system of regulation is, because it does not inspire public confidence. He complied with the business appointment rules for former Ministers, and ACoBA considered his case, but because the current process commands so little confidence, its decision to approve the appointment has been questioned, and it has done little to enhance his reputation to have ACoBA as a protection. Among Mr Osborne’s other post-ministerial appointments is his editorship of the Evening Standard, a position he accepted without waiting for ACoBA to reach a decision at all. This might have been for perfectly understandable reasons.
Our report made a number of recommendations that would improve the confidence ACoBA commands but crucially without recourse to a statutory system. These related to the availability of data for those below the threshold for ACoBA review, the transparency of the lobbying process and the need for ACoBA to be adequately resourced. Crucially, underpinning all this, we concluded that there needed to be a clear statement of values and a clear setting out of principles to be talked about, taught and discussed, to inform and guide behaviour and to make it clear when behaviour falls below those standards.
I am very disappointed that in their response the Government rejected all but some minor procedural recommendations and even denied the seriousness of the problems we are confronting in the House of Commons today. We agreed with ACoBA when it said there should be a single collated list of decisions taken by Departments and agencies so that at least the self-regulated departmental aspect might be more exposed to public view. The Government rejected even this minor suggestion.
PACAC—and before it the Public Administration Select Committee—has returned to the subject of ACoBA and will keep returning to it, because the system remains ineffective and fails to command public confidence. The problems it is supposed to address have only escalated over this period. Governments have failed to address our concerns and public trust in the system has continued to decline. To restore public trust, it is crucial to stamp out not only impropriety by senior Ministers and officials, but the appearance of impropriety. ACoBA, although well intentioned, lacks the resources and structures to achieve that.
I hope the Government will pay attention to this. I do understand that this is a very difficult matter to address. The Committee on Standards in Public Life, I believe, should be having a look at this. As the Government consider the appointment of the Chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life—I may have a role in that —I hope that it will be made clear to the new Chair that this is an issue that should be looked at. Perhaps the Committee on Standards in Public Life will conclude, in the same way as the Government, that there is no need for any significant change, but I think the matter deserves scrutiny.
One detects a kind of squeamishness in Whitehall among Ministers and senior officials, whom this question directly affects because they will soon, in their careers, be leaving public office and moving to the private sector. One detects that there is a reluctance to confront this issue, perhaps for the worst of reasons, which rather undermines public confidence in the system as it exists today. I am afraid it is an ineffective and poorly trusted regulator, which is probably worse than no regulator at all.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Ind)
I am pleased to support the report. I commend the Chairman for his excellent speech. I have for a long time been concerned about public confidence in politicians and the state of Government, and it is very important indeed that we get it across that we are, overwhelmingly, honest people, trying to do the right thing by our constituents and by the country to improve everyone’s lives. But there are those who are not.
I am taken back to when I was first elected as a councillor, many years ago—1972 to be precise—and I was challenged outside a public meeting in my ward by a scrap metal merchant. He said, “Look mate, we are all on the fiddle, aren’t we?” I said, “No, actually; I am not on the fiddle.” He said, “No, not you—them others.” I said, “Which others? If you give me their names I shall report them to the chief executive.” He said, “No, not the councillors—the officers.” I said, “That is even worse. If you know names of officers who are ‘on the fiddle’ as you put it, I shall certainly report them to the chief executive.” He walked away in disbelief; he thought I was going to say, “Of course I am on the fiddle, mate. Have you got any backhanders for me?” That is not how things work, but some people suspect that that is how it works.
More recently, a couple of years ago, there were some television stings on Members. One was absolutely astonishing. One Member openly said, “Yes, I am for hire, like a taxi.” Another said they would be prepared to work for, I think, £5,000 a day. It was astonishing—Members whom I knew. I had no idea that was how they thought.
We are well paid and have good pensions. I believe that our job is to represent the interests of ordinary people, not ourselves, or indeed the interests of business. ACOBA, as the Chairman rightly said, is toothless and feeble. I am a member of the Public Administration Committee. There are those on the Committee who fulminate, almost, at what has been going on. I feel just as strongly. The report moves us forward and the Government must act at some point. I personally believe that the rules should be much stronger and rigorously enforced to ensure that everyone believes that our politics are honest and straight.
Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)
I shall not be too long on my feet. A lot of the points I wanted to raise have already been covered and I have torn a cartilage in my right knee, so I am feeling the pain as I speak.
In the report there is a quote from the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee report of 2017, which mirrors closely a comment by its predecessor, the Public Administration Committee from 2012 when it says:
“The regulatory system for scrutinising the post-public employment of former Ministers and civil servants is ineffectual and does not inspire public confidence or respect. Our inquiry has revealed numerous gaps in ACoBA’s monitoring process with insufficient attention paid to the principles that should govern business appointments. The failures of governments in this regard have damaged public trust in politics and public institutions and led to repeated scandals. Consequently, we are recommending major reform.”
Since 2012, nothing seems to have improved. The failure of ACoBA to keep a lid on the revolving doors between Government and industry, including seeing the most senior Ministers take on jobs without waiting for approval, means that a system relying solely on the honour of former Ministers, without sanctions or consequences, is seen as optional and has now failed.
As the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) mentioned, the situation with George Osborne has been particularly worrying. That the former Chancellor of the Exchequer has been taken on as an adviser to the BlackRock Investment Institute on a salary considerably in excess of his previous salary as Chancellor, in a sector that he was responsible for regulating, seems to show little care for even the appearance of propriety among Ministers. That the body that was supposed to be regulating the revolving doors between Government and industry had to hear that he had accepted a high-profile position as editor of the Evening Standard in the news, without him having consulted them or waited for clearance, shows that the system is broken. That the president of BlackRock could tell investors that there is no way of knowing whether Mr Osborne will
“draw on (or disclose or use for the benefit of yourself or the organisation to which this advice refers) any privileged information”
that he gained from his time in Government shows that this is an absolute mockery.
As the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex said, the ACoBA chair, Baroness Browning, said to the Committee
“every bus driver and hairdresser you know”
should
“apply for any of those jobs. I can tell you factually, not one applied.”
Well, that is not surprising when the essential criteria for such a role include senior-level experience of at least one of the following sectors: the diplomatic service, the military or business. The criteria go on to mention
“Understanding of the machinery of government, preferably gained through practical experience at a senior level…Good communications skills…Personal integrity and strength of character”.
The report states:
“While the majority of these characteristics are not beyond your average hairdresser or bus driver, the first criteria, namely senior level experience in the Diplomatic Service, Military or business, may restrict applications from outside these sectors.”
Further, it was found that the problems identified in the system are “escalating” with increased numbers of public servants moving between the public and private sectors, with a number of high-profile cases resulting in a decline in public confidence in the system. Research by the High Pay Centre states that between 2000 and 2014, 600 former Ministers and top-level civil servants were appointed to over 1,000 different business roles. Its report raised concerns about the “corporate colonisation” of UK politics. Private Eye’s Richard Brooks told PACAC that
“former senior officials and their new employers see the”
ACoBA
“process as a mere rubber stamp”.
On what scale is this happening? In 2010-11, immediately following the general election, ACoBA advised 42 former Ministers regarding 95 applications and 38 civil servants regarding 63 applications. In 2015-16, immediately after that general election, the equivalent figure was 33 Ministers regarding 123 applications and 36 Crown servants in relation to 110 appointments.
Since 2010, no former Ministers or civil servants have had an application refused by ACoBA—not one, nada, zilch, zero. Private Eye reported that by 2015, outsourcing public services cost the UK Government £120 billion and that despite poor records of delivery, G4S and Serco continue to win favour and contracts because of the revolving door and blurred distinction between employees in private companies and ministerial Departments.
Finally, the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), who unfortunately cannot be in his seat today, described ACoBA as
“nothing but a poodle without teeth or claws, bark or bite…totally and utterly useless”.—[Official Report, 28 April 2016; Vol. 608, c. 1567.]
I could not have put it better myself. If he is watching today, we miss him and haste him back. The report recommends only a cost-benefit analysis. I would go further and say that a statutory basis for ACoBA is necessary for its continued existence, otherwise it will rightly be seen entirely as decorative.
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) on his recent knighthood, richly deserved after many years’ service in this place, and on the work of the Committee and the dogged way in which he and his Committee have gone after this particular issue. It is a lesson to all in the House about the value and the strength of Select Committees when they are well led and follow the evidence with robust questioning. I pay tribute to him and his Committee.
Sir Bernard Jenkin
I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his tribute, but may I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan)? We really do owe much of our work to the persistence of our absent friend, the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), who has always contributed and motivated the Committee on this matter.
Christian Matheson
I am most grateful for that clarification and the House will have noted it.
The Advisory Committee on Business Appointments is entirely necessary, but, to use the phrase of the moment, not at all fit for purpose. The clue is in the name. The A in ACoBA stands for “advisory” and it is clear that the committee is just that: it has no teeth and if its harshest sanction is to embarrass—well, that is scarcely a sanction at all. I wonder whether, as currently constituted, it is even designed to make a difference with a very narrow remit. As far as I can tell, ACoBA has never actually refused an appointment.
ACoBA is appointed by the Government to provide independent advice to senior Crown servants and to all former Ministers of the UK, Scottish and Welsh Governments on any appointments they wish to take up within two years of leaving public or ministerial office. ACoBA applies the business appointment rules, which are largely procedural and set by the Government. They have no statutory basis and there are no sanctions for non-compliance. The rules apply for up to two years after leaving office and they are applied with inconsistency.
It is a clear failure of ACOBA that it cannot adequately distinguish between different types of post-ministerial appointment, for example paid as opposed to unpaid work. One former senior civil servant recounted to me the story of when they left the civil service. They took a position on the board of trustees of a community group. It took months upon months for this voluntary position to be approved. Part of the delay was down to due diligence, because the trust was a charity. If charities and the Charity Commission can undertake due diligence and prevent an appointment pending such checks, why can ACOBA not do that?
Meanwhile, as we have heard, the former Chancellor George Osborne can take a job with BlackRock in the City of London and not even tell ACOBA that he was taking a job editing the London Evening Standard. I understand the same applies to the former head of GCHQ, Robert Hannigan, who was appointed to the European advisory board for a new US cyber-security firm, BlueteamGlobal, and did not even tell ACOBA. Because it is set up as an advisory and non-statutory committee, ACOBA finds enforcement difficult. I suspect that this is the reason it does not attempt to enforce. Indeed, it may be the reason it was set up in this way in the first place.
In addition to ACOBA’s toothlessness, there are further problems, for example with conflicts of interest. There are numerous, multiple examples of members of the committee declaring interests in firms to which the applicants were being appointed, but not recusing themselves from those cases. This included Mary Jo Jacobi, who has financial interests in BP but did not recuse herself from Vernon Gibson’s application, and John Wood, who has interests in BT, did not recuse himself from Keith Bristow’s commission with them.
ACOBA was also criticised by the former Public Administration Committee for having an “establishment” make-up—the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex raised this point. ACOBA is chaired by a Baroness and former Conservative Minister, who also works as a consultant for a company that looks very much like a lobbying firm. Other members of the committee include two Lords, a knight, a former general secretary of the First Division Association, lawyers and former senior civil service grandees. I go back to the evidence cited by the Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee about bus drivers or hairdressers. As he says, there seems to be no sight of them.
Kelvin Hopkins
My hon. Friend is making the point made by the Chair and other colleagues. Putting people on ACOBA who look like members of the establishment, honest though they may be, just reinforces the image among the public of the establishment looking after itself, instead of having ordinary people, maybe bus drivers and hairdressers, who are remote from the establishment on the committee.
Christian Matheson
I thank my hon. Friend for that point, but it is not simply about image. It is about having a different perspective. It is about approaching the question of an appointment from a different point of view, so that somebody from the outside, a bus driver or a hairdresser, can say, “Look, this really doesn’t look right from where I am sitting.” He makes an extremely good point, but the issue is about more than how it looks.
We welcome much of the report, including its finding that the problem of conflicts of interest
“has escalated, with increased numbers of public servants moving between the public and private sectors, and a number of very high profile cases resulting in declining public confidence in a system that was set up to command trust by mitigating any breaches of the Rules.”
It also states:
“The regulatory system for scrutinising the post public employment of former Ministers and civil servants is ineffectual and does not inspire public confidence or respect.”
It refers to
“numerous gaps in ACoBA’s monitoring process with insufficient attention paid to the principles that should govern business appointments.”
The report has several clear and pretty strong recommendations for ACOBA, including much greater transparency of data published about decisions, an amendment to the Ministerial Code, and the publication of applications on receipt and not after the fact. It also proposes the disclosure of full information about ACOBA‘s procedures for assessing applications and the reasons for its judgments.
Labour Members welcome the report as a starting point for the reform of ACOBA, but I disagree with the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex, who said—although I may have misunderstood him—that reform might be quite difficult. I am not sure that it would be if enough attention were given to it, and as long as the political will was there, although I concede that he, rather than me, is the one who has done all the studying of the detail.
We have been calling for the reform of ACOBA since 2011. Whether the issue is the lack of diversity of its members, their own conflicts of interest, or indeed the very rules by which they work—or, indeed, do not work—it cannot continue to exist as a fig leaf that fails even in that role of concealing the revolving door. It should be entirely reconstituted, with clearer terms of reference and stronger powers to delay or block appointments that are not appropriate. By failing to act, or being unable to act, ACOBA highlights the fact that the current arrangements are simply not working, and it must be reformed.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)
I thank all the Members who have spoken today. I am, obviously, particularly grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin), and, through him, I thank his Committee for its examination of this issue over time. Obviously, the Government welcome the opportunity to respond formally to its most recent report on this subject. That report stands. I trust that Members have had a chance to read it in detail today. I have also been able to listen to the points that have been made during the debate. Let me now set out how the Government see ACoBA, and, in doing so, try to address some of those points.
ACoBA fulfils a specific remit: to supply independent, impartial advice on the business appointment rules to former Ministers and civil servants on proposed new appointments of people who have left Government service. It supplies its advice directly to former Ministers and, in the case of civil servants, to either the Prime Minister or the relevant permanent secretary. It remains the Government’s view that it fulfils its remit effectively, efficiently and with professionalism. It comprises nine very knowledgeable individuals, independent of Government, who bring with them a wealth of experience from the public, private and third sectors.
The business appointment rules system itself is a set of principles which seeks to ensure that, when a former Minister or civil servant takes up an outside appointment, there is no justified public concern about that appointment. We do think, though, that people have a right to earn a living after leaving Government, perhaps in areas in which they have established expertise. When applying the rules, the system should strike a balance, ensuring that there is public confidence, but also ensuring that the conditions do not amount to an unlawful or unenforceable restraint of trade.
Kelvin Hopkins
It is fair enough that, when people leave the House, or leave Government jobs, they should be able to earn a living, but not necessarily in the area in which they previously worked, from which they could benefit through their inside knowledge, or in which they might even have influenced policy in the expectation of a subsequent reward. That is what is wrong. If someone who was in the MOD then gets a job as a schoolteacher, that is not a problem; if they get a job ordering supplies for the military, that is a different matter.
Chloe Smith
I think that the hon. Gentleman and I are in agreement, because that is the guiding principle of this structure. There should be able to be public confidence that abuses are not occurring. There was a clue, I think, in his choice of words. He may have involuntarily used the words “not necessarily”, but there is something rather important in that. We have a flexible system that means that there is the ability to make a decision not necessarily in one fashion or another. That is one of the advantages of having a non-statutory body —it can be a little more flexible, in a way that is different from something that is encased in legislation, where the words “necessarily this” or “necessarily that” may apply.
Kelvin Hopkins
I hope that the hon. Lady is not reading too much into my words. In my short speech, I said that I wanted strong rules, rigidly enforced. That is the way it should be. There should be an entire separation between what a Minister does in government and what they do after they leave Parliament.
Chloe Smith
I hear and respect the hon. Gentleman’s view and I am grateful to him for taking the trouble to repeat it.
One of the other principles at stake is that we do not want to deter talented people from entering government service. I suspect that the Committee also recognised that principle, quite rightly. In the Government’s view, that could result from having an over-rigid system that could prevent or restrict people from returning to the sectors in which their expertise lies appropriately following a period of public service. Now, more than ever, with some major challenges in view for the public sector and for the civil service, we need to be able to attract the best skills and talent and to benefit from those who have capabilities and experience from outside the civil service—let us not forget this argument works two ways.
In order to deliver for the public and for taxpayers in the way in which they expect of their civil service, we need to be able to maintain a confident, professional and expert service when we are looking at such important and critical matters in the public sector.
Sir Bernard Jenkin
My hon. Friend knows that the PASC report of 2012 recommended a statutory scheme. In this later report, having listened to the Government’s objections about the cost-effectiveness of a statutory scheme, we invited the Government to produce a cost-benefit analysis, which indeed even the chair of ACoBA said would be a good idea. However, the Government have declined to produce even a cost-benefit analysis of having statutory rules, or enforceable rules of some kind. Will she revisit that recommendation and look at the question of a cost-benefit analysis? We are constantly told that rules would have a very negative effect on the public sector, but there is no evidence to support what she is claiming—although I understand that there is a perfectly legitimate concern.
Chloe Smith
I thank the Chairman of the Committee for that intervention. He gives me the opportunity to note that these arguments have been put back and forth a number of times over the years. It is my great pleasure to come to the House today and take up those arguments. However, it is still the Government’s case that a statutory system is not the right way forward. That is a matter of principle as much as of practicality, for the reasons I have set out. We do not therefore think it is right to go ahead and do a cost-benefit analysis, which, in itself, would take time and money, for something that, in principle, we are not convinced of the case for. It is question of principle and practicality.
We need to be able to attract capable people from a range of backgrounds, and I reiterate the commitment to being able to recruit fully externally to do that. It is therefore important to have an interchange of skills and experience between the public sector and elsewhere. That is good for our national life. It is also a matter of fairness to individuals who will wish to continue their careers in various ways. We need to strike that balance.
As I said, we remain of the view that a statutory system with enforcement powers but without the flexibility of the current arrangements to take account of the particular circumstances of individual cases would not be beneficial. As I have just said to my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex, we do not consider carrying out that cost-benefit analysis on the introduction of such a system to be a good use of public money at this time.
Sir Bernard Jenkin
My hon. Friend is being very patient, but unfortunately for her she has a lot of time. If she is going to refuse a cost-benefit analysis, will she at least accept this? ACoBA seems to be very preoccupied by what candidates might do after they have left the public sector in the context of their employers, and it often puts a lobbying ban on the person moving into the private sector. What regard should ACoBA have for the fact that the lobbying has already probably taken place and the granting of employment is just the implicit reward for having been lobbied when the candidate was working in the public sector? No regard seems to be paid to that potential conflict of interest in the way the ACoBA rules are applied.
Chloe Smith
My hon. Friend raises an important point, which is, I suppose, at the other end of the process. Although it is ACoBA’s remit to look at the exit end of the process, the entry end is also bound around with codes of conduct—the ministerial code and the codes of conduct expected of civil servants. Crucial to those are of course the principles of public life. While we are on the subject of principles that govern what we are talking about here, I should say that we expect a high degree of principles and of ethical behaviour from anybody who comes in to work for the public sector—that is the least that both their employer and the taxpayer expect. However, I wonder whether it would ever be feasible to systematise that and have someone checking every dot on the i and cross on the t of how that could be done. That is a slightly different part of the process from the one we would be looking to ACoBA to deal with.
I did want to talk about transparency, because it is one way in which we can also look to gain accountability in the area of appointments after public service. ACoBA publishes a considerable amount of information on the applications it receives, and Departments do the same where it is their responsibility to do so. That advice is published online, in full, once an appointment is taken up, and Departments publish summary information regarding civil servants’ applications on a quarterly basis. What those methods do is very important. They provide a reputational check and balance. Hypothetically speaking, if I were a future employer of somebody and I felt they had not been honest about something which I could very easily scrutinise, I might think twice about employing them. We have a clear and open system, and it has a very human point at its heart. The Government believe that is helpful and sufficient to ensure that the public have the information they need for transparency and accountability purposes.
We have noted in our responses to the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee’s previous reports on this issue that there are certain areas where the current system may be tightened, and I would like to go into those now in order to outline to Committee members and others who are here this afternoon the changes we have made. First, the ministerial code is clear that Ministers of the Crown are expected to behave in a way that upholds the highest standards of propriety. The code contains an explicit prohibition on former Ministers from lobbying Government for two years following their departure from office, and they must also seek advice from ACoBA about any outside appointments and abide by that advice. To reinforce that requirement, the most recent version of the code appends a full version of the rules and includes new wording to make it clear that new appointments should not be taken up or announced until ACoBA has had the opportunity to provide its advice. Hon. Members will find that important in the context of examples they have given this afternoon.
In addition, the Minister for the Cabinet Office has recently written to ministerial colleagues reminding them of the importance of the business appointment rules in maintaining public confidence in the integrity of our public servants. We have also taken steps to improve awareness of our compliance with the rules at departmental level and to improve Departments’ monitoring of compliance issues. These actions are largely in response to recommendations made by my hon. Friend’s Select Committee in its latest report on this issue, and I thank him and the Committee for their continued interest. I particularly wanted to be able to set out today how we have made those changes and the way in which they take the issue forward.
The Cabinet Office has also recently issued updated guidance to Departments on administering the rules on working with ACoBA. This guidance includes a number of new points, including increasing clarity on how the rules apply to civil servants on career breaks, ensuring that all applications from former permanent secretaries are countersigned by the Cabinet Secretary and encouraging Departments to consider an individual’s compliance with the business appointment rules in the future, should they wish to return to Government service. [Interruption.] Dangerously, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am now going to pause for a glass of water. I await a heavyweight intervention from the Chair of the Select Committee. However, none is forthcoming. [Interruption.] I shall now complete my remarks, so that the House can move on to the important matters that await it in the next debate.
In addition, if a former Minister or senior civil servant is nominated for an honour, ACoBA will be consulted on an individual’s compliance with the business appointment rules as part of the honours and appointments secretariat’s existing vetting process. Finally, the chief executive of the civil service and the Government lead non-executive have written to the chairs of each of the departmental audit and risk committees, requiring them to monitor on a quarterly basis a Department’s performance on ensuring compliance with the business appointment rules. In our view, the amendments that I have listed for the House today, which will also be incorporated into the civil service management code in due course, will help to tighten and strengthen the processes that underpin the subject of today’s debate. They will also raise awareness and improve compliance with the rules.
In summary—[Interruption.] All I need is for some scenery to begin to collapse behind me; then I would have had the perfect afternoon in the Chamber. In summary, in the Government’s view, ACoBA’s primary role is, and should remain, to provide independent advice on the application of the business appointment rules on outside appointments to Ministers and the most senior Crown servants after they leave office. The Government’s view remains that the current rules strike the right balance between preventing conflicts of interest and recognising the necessary freedom of individuals to earn a living without unreasonable hindrance after they leave public service.
Sir Bernard Jenkin
I am grateful for the attention that my hon. Friend has given this matter. I know that it is a matter over which to agonise, because it contains a lot of dilemmas. She has put forward extremely powerfully all the countervailing points about how to attract people into the public service and how not to punish them in the afterlife for giving up the salary and perks of the private sector to work in the public service, and so on.
The Minister has also talked a lot about processes and transparency, and I suggest that there is one process that would really open this up. That process would involve applications being published at the outset. I know that this is an advisory committee and that people go there for advice, but it really is ridiculous that they can go there on a fishing expedition. The advisory committee could tell someone that they could not possibly take a certain job because of what might happen, but nothing would ever appear in the public domain to indicate that that person had no moral compass of their own. Let them go and take advice from a lawyer about how the rules would be applied, but once they have applied to ACoBA, let it be transparent that they have applied. Let us find out what sort of person they are and whether they are applying for a job in a way that should not be allowed.
My second point is more about principles. In paragraph 105 of our report, we recommend a change to the civil service code, which should also be made to the ministerial code. Our recommendation is quite simple, and it is that these words should be included:
“You must: take decisions in the public interest alone; never allow yourself to be influenced in contracting, procurement, regulation or the provision of policy advice, by your career expectations or prospects if you leave the public service; always report to your line managers any offers of jobs or other rewards, or any informal suggestions of such rewards, that may have, or be reasonably seen to have a bearing on your role as a public servant; take particular care in your relations with former colleagues who may seek to influence your decisions as a public servant. You must not: take up any post outside the public service in business or [commercial] organisations operating in areas where you have been directly responsible in the previous [currently] two years for any form of contracting, procurement or regulation.”
We believe that that would provide a framework for people to think about what they are doing in the public service and at least some basis for discussion about how we expect people to behave. Sadly, leaving a Government Department, whether as a Minister, official or member of the armed forces, and, in time, finding oneself in related work in the private sector, has become something of a way of life. It is the new normal.
Unless we can find a way of providing reassurance about such behaviour, we will finish up with a statutory system in the end. I invite the Minister to reconsider that particular recommendation. I appreciate the opportunity to raise these matters this afternoon. They will not go away, I am afraid—they will be back, unless the Government take action.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the Thirteenth Report of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, HC 252, Managing Ministers’ and officials’ conflicts of interest: time for clearer values, principles and action, on the role and effectiveness of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (ACoBA); notes that ACoBA regulates applications for business appointments by former Ministers and civil servants who have recently left the public sector; believes that ACoBA is an ineffectual regulator which fails to inspire public confidence or respect; expresses concern that the Committee’s inquiry revealed numerous gaps in ACoBA’s monitoring process with insufficient attention paid to the principles that should govern business appointments; agrees that failures of consecutive governments to address ACoBA’s deficiencies have damaged public trust in politics and public institutions and led to repeated scandals; calls on the Government to bring forward major reform by introducing a principles-based system to ensure that individuals act with integrity and behave according to those principles; and further calls on the Government to fund independent checks by ACoBA across all Government departments and executive agencies to reinforce those principles.
Home Education: draft guidance and the consultation
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
I would be the first to say that Ealing has some great schools; I know that as I am a product of them myself, I use them as a mum, and I am the sort of MP who goes to assemblies. I will go to my first school fête on Saturday—at Montpelier School, my old primary.
However, I also recognise that the formal school system is not for everyone, and that is what this petition is about. It has been spearheaded by Jackie Fahy of Chiswick and is backed by people from all over my constituency—the Freely family of Ealing, the Carberry family of Acton, Elizabeth Howard, Sarah Bignell and loads of other people. Their issue is about safeguards for people who home-educate their kids and the need for there not to be overbearing regulation. I understand that this is the first such petition of hundreds that have been received by Members on both sides of the House; I just seem to have been the first to have got here.
The petition states:
The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to withdraw the draft guidelines and the consultation, until it has put in place an accessible and workable complaints procedure and further has consulted with home educating parents, as it has with Local Authorities, what the contents should include.
Following is the full text of the petition:
[The petition of residents of the United Kingdom,
Declares that the “Home Education - Call for Evidence and revised DfE guidance” has been written following significant consultation with local authorities and no consultation whatsoever with the home education community; further that the consultation is consequently for little more than show as an intention to implement the content has already been stated; further that it seeks to encourage local authorities to breach the ECHR Article 8 and the GDPR; and further that the report provides no accessible means for a parent to address ultra vires behaviour by their local authority, where many of those authorities already act routinely in an ultra vires manner.
The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to withdraw the draft guidelines and the consultation, until it has put in place an accessible and workable complaints procedure and further has consulted with home educating parents, as it has with Local Authorities, what the contents should include.
And the petitioners remain, etc.]
[P002164]
Armed Forces Veterans
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Peter Heaton-Jones (North Devon) (Con)
I relish this opportunity to raise this important issue, which is hugely significant—not only to my constituents in North Devon, but across the country. It is, of course, extremely significant at the moment, during the lead-up to Armed Forces Day on Saturday.
It is worth saying, perhaps for the benefit of those watching these proceedings from outside, that no inference should be drawn from the, sadly, rather small number of colleagues in the House today. That is absolutely not a reflection of the extraordinarily high regard in which all Members view members of the armed forces and veterans; it is purely, I am afraid, a product of the parliamentary timetable and the fact that many colleagues will now be on their way to their constituencies to take part in events for Armed Forces Day this weekend.
I start on a personal note by sharing my own grandfather’s story. He fought in the great war and enrolled at the start of the conflict. He told the Army that he was born in 1895. When he passed away 60 years later, we discovered the truth: he had lied about his age. He was so eager to serve King and country that he had signed up as a 15-year-old boy.
One hundred years after the end of the first world war, I am now the proud custodian of my grandfather’s service medals and ribbons, but I am ashamed to say that we know nothing else of his part in the conflict. Like many of his generation, he never talked about it. He was alive until I was 10 years old, but I do not recall having a single conversation with him about his part in the war—that is just the way it was for that generation.
How times have changed, and rightly so. Today we are far more aware of the service of our armed forces veterans. We understand much better the challenges they face, and we openly acknowledge the debt of gratitude we owe them, but with that greater understanding comes difficult questions—questions about whether society and the state are doing enough to support our veterans and to provide them with the assistance they need and deserve. That is the focus of my thoughts today.
There are around 2.5 million veterans in the UK. It depends on how we count, but that is the best figure. My county of Devon has the highest number of veterans as a proportion of its population of any county in the UK. We have some 100,000 veterans living in Devon. Many of them are in my constituency of North Devon, where of course we have a very proud historical connection with the military. It is the home of Royal Marines Base Chivenor, which my right hon. Friend the Minister visited earlier this year. Until recently, we also had an Army base at Fremington. There is also a military establishment at Instow.
North Devon is also home to veterans who have served in many military establishments across Devon and, indeed, the rest of the south-west. It has a proud historical connection with the armed services, so I take a particular interest in all these matters.
The centrepiece of our country’s contract with our armed services veterans is the armed forces covenant, which is a promise by the nation that those who serve or have served, and their families, will be treated fairly and suffer no disadvantage. It also allows for special consideration, especially and most importantly where a veteran has been injured or a family bereaved.
The covenant has achieved a great deal since its inception in 2011. It is now embedded in the NHS constitution, and all local authorities in Great Britain, as well as more than 2,500 other organisations and businesses, are now signed up to its principles, but there is always more we can do to support our veterans. I am encouraged by the fact that this Government have gone further and established the ministerial covenant and veterans board better to co-ordinate central Government’s approach to our service personnel and to veterans and their families. Local delivery is supported by the covenant fund of £10 million a year in perpetuity, which funds projects across the UK.
That is all to be welcomed, but I have mentioned that there are difficult questions and there are challenges, and these cannot be ignored because, for some of our veterans, those disadvantages are foremost. I will focus on three issues, but chief among them is mental health.
In Devon it is estimated that almost one in six of our veterans has complex mental health needs, which is an issue that will no doubt grow in importance in the coming years. Over the next decade or so the veterans population will experience a dramatic shift from the second world war cohort of largely conscripted former service personnel to a younger cohort of professional servicemen and women who fought in very different conflicts and therefore face very different challenges. They fought in conflicts or took part in peacekeeping duties in theatres such as Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Falkland Islands, the Balkan countries and many, many more.
Mental ill health, often presenting itself in the form of post-traumatic stress disorder, is in many cases an invisible condition. Not only does the state need to take greater notice, but society needs to change its attitude, too. That is something in which I take a particular interest, ranging across not just our former armed forces personnel but many others who are living with mental ill health.
I therefore welcome the Defence Secretary’s recent pledge to increase funding for armed forces mental health services to £220 million over the next decade, and of course, as we heard recently, NHS budgets across the board are increasing, which is a start, but we must ensure that a significant chunk of that new money is targeted at those who need help with mental health conditions. Our growing understanding of the long-term impacts of active service and the changing nature of our veteran communities means we should look to go further, too.
To that end, I am encouraged by the establishment of the veterans strategy which will look to address the changing needs of our armed services personnel and improve mental health support. I very much look forward to its publication in November, and I am sure the Minister will talk more about that in his remarks.
We must also acknowledge the excellent work being undertaken by many charities, voluntary bodies and third sector organisations. It is invidious to just pull out a couple for mention as there are many and I wish to acknowledge all of them, but I mention in particular the charities Combat Stress and the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry, which works to support the “access pathway” into the NHS for veterans suffering from mental health problems. They are all doing very worthwhile work.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
As we are talking about the contribution of charities, I would like to bring to the hon. Gentleman’s attention the Lee Rigby Foundation, which is run by the parents of that murdered fusilier, who lived in my constituency. They have opened up a home for respite and retreat for injured soldiers and their families, and are also hoping to open a veterans lodge. They rely solely on fundraising.
Peter Heaton-Jones
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that case; it is another fine example of a charity that is doing fantastic work in this regard.
The work done by such organisations, many of which we have not mentioned, is vital not least because research carried out by the Royal British Legion has found that social isolation and loneliness are now widely experienced among our veteran community, and that leads further to mental health problems. More attention must be given to the unique experiences of our armed forces community; their mobile lifestyle and self-reliant culture and a stigma about speaking out or seeking help can all lead to isolation, leaving veterans unable to seek support for what could be, or develop into, a serious mental health condition.
I recognise that much of the responsibility for our veterans lies with local authorities and in our local communities, and I am pleased that every local authority in Great Britain, including in my area North Devon District Council and Devon County Council, has now signed the armed forces covenant. But merely signing up to the covenant is not enough. Sadly, there remains wide variation in the implementation of the covenant’s pledges; it is to some extent a postcode lottery—that was the phrase used by one veteran who contacted me in the last few hours, having seen the social media publicity around this Adjournment debate. That veteran is correct.
Luke Pollard
I thank a fellow west country MP for giving way.
There are places like Plymouth and Portsmouth, and clearly north Devon as well, that are doing so much to embed the covenant in all aspects of the public services, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that this must not be a document that gathers dust on a local council’s or local business’s bookshelf; it needs to be lived and breathed and implemented every single day to make it real?
Peter Heaton-Jones
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comment, and that is precisely the point I am seeking to come on to. Signing up to the covenant is not enough; there needs to be active participation by those who sign on the dotted line.
Another difficulty is that a lack of familiarity with the services available often prevents some veterans and their families from seeking the help and support that they need. That is why I am delighted that Devon County Council has established a website—a one-stop shop—that serves as an online directory of services and support for veterans and their families. The Devon Forces Family website hosts dedicated information in a single place, making it quick and easy for all those connected with our armed forces to access the services and assistance they need. In particular, websites such as Devon Forces Family can help veterans and their families to find suitable housing, and therefore complement central Government policy.
The Government are helping forces families to get on the property ladder by, for example, making loans totalling £163 million to help more than 10,000 forces personnel to get on or stay on the property ladder. Veterans need to be afforded similar opportunities, and I hope that a way can be found to ensure that that can happen. Communication is key and co-operation across different levels of Government is essential. For those seeking social housing, local authorities must ensure that changes to the law, which have been designed to ensure that veterans with urgent housing needs are prioritised, are fairly and properly implemented in their area. We must be sure that all statutory bodies that are responsible for delivering on those changes are doing so, and that they are making sure that veterans receive the practical help that they need, targeted to them in a timely and efficient manner.
When we think about support for our armed forces veterans, there is a third aspect. I say at the outset that I take close notice of the Standing Orders as they relate to matters that are sub judice. It is perhaps the elephant in the room: the issue of historical prosecutions. The issue has been and is being considered elsewhere more widely, so I shall not comment on individual cases, except to say that I am taking an extremely close interest in one in my own constituency. It is a matter that is, understandably, causing concern to veterans in my constituency and elsewhere. Indeed, I have had a great deal of correspondence from veterans, and I met a number of them in my constituency surgery recently to discuss the issue. I understand their concerns.
Let me pose this question: do we really want our veterans to have to worry about hearing a knock on the door and being hauled before a court to be held to account to today’s standards for alleged offences that happened more than 20, 30 or even 40 years ago—incidents that happened when young servicemen, sometimes only teenagers themselves, were facing threats the likes of which most of us can only imagine? I add my voice to the growing support for a statute of limitations, which would see soldiers exempted from prosecutions after 10 years had passed. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Leo Docherty) for securing Monday’s Adjournment debate on the issue, which many of us stayed late to hear.
Let me be clear: that is not to say that these sorts of cases should be swept under the carpet and not dealt with at all. I recognise that closure is extremely important. I very much welcome the Northern Ireland Office consultation, which is currently seeking views on how better to address the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past. That consultation closes on 10 September; I urge veterans and interested parties to take part and have their voice heard.
For now, as we approach Armed Forces Day, I wish to achieve a number of things, and I am sure that the Government have the same ambition. Let us ensure that we continue to do all we can to provide the help and support that our veterans need. As a Government, let us leave no stone unturned when it comes to ensuring that we are doing all we can. It is not just about money and resources; it is about using those resources more smartly by making information more widely available, making sure that we have joined-up thinking across all the statutory bodies and third sector organisations that work with veterans, and recognising in the first place the growing challenge that veterans face, particularly when it comes to their mental health.
Let us acknowledge and support the outstanding work that is being done, and let us do what my grandfather and I never had the chance to do: let us talk with pride about the service of our veterans, and in doing so recognise that we owe them all the help and support that they require, as well as a huge debt of gratitude, not only on Armed Forces day but on every day of the year—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. I must interrupt the hon. Gentleman even though he is just on his peroration, because we have to move the 5 o’clock motion again.
Madam Deputy Speaker
I hope the hon. Gentleman can conclude his peroration in the way that he was doing.
Peter Heaton-Jones
I feel that I have perorated, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Tobias Ellwood)
May I begin with a declaration of interest as a colonel in the reserves?
As is customary on these occasions, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones) on securing this important Adjournment debate. May I thank him also for an absolutely delightful and educational visit to Chivenor? It was a pleasure to go down there to see the Marines and the activities that are going on and also to understand what is happening as we rationalise the real estate of the armed forces. I am grateful for his interest in that matter. I am also thankful that he has drawn the House’s attention to this important issue of mental health and to the support for veterans, too.
My hon. Friend mentioned his grandfather. He tells a tale of a 15-year-old who wanted to serve King and country and to lie on the sign-up sheets. That was repeated across the country. Massive tribute should be paid to the dedication, the loyalty, the commitment and the bravery of people stepping out into the unknown, unsure of what to do, but knowing also that it was the right thing to do. I pay huge tribute to his grandfather. I know that his action was repeated up and down the country.
My hon. Friend also mentioned Armed Forces Day. This debate is absolutely timely, as we celebrate, mark and reflect on the role that the armed forces play in our society. The bond between our armed forces and society is critical. We recruit from society. That is our gene pool, and it is where we want to attract people from, so that we have an armed force by consent of the nation. Therefore, that relationship that we have is absolutely pivotal if we want to keep the professionalism of our armed forces, which are revered and respected across the world.
I am pleased to say that the Secretary of State will be in Llandudno in north Wales, leading the focal point of Armed Forces Day celebrations, which will be repeated up and down the country as we pay our tributes. I see the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) is nodding. Last year, I went to the Armed Forces Day celebrations in his constituency, and they were fantastic.
My hon. Friend also mentioned that these celebrations mark the end of the second world war; they also mark the 100th anniversary of the RAF, so we have another opportunity this weekend to say thanks to those in uniform.
Interestingly, Northern Ireland celebrates its Armed Forces Day a week earlier. Last weekend, I was in Coleraine in Northern Ireland. Having served there myself, may I just say what a pleasure it was to be able to see the bands, the infanteers and those in uniform marching down the high street of Coleraine with the absolute support of the public? It was absolutely gratifying to see that because when I served in Northern Ireland, we could not even move from one place to another unless we were on patrol in uniform. Again, it is an illustration of that important bond between society and our armed forces.
My hon. Friend raises this matter of support for veterans with a focus on mental health and other issues. I was pleased to give evidence this Tuesday at the Defence Committee’s evidence session on armed forces veterans and mental health. This morning, I had the opportunity to speak at the Queen Elizabeth conference centre to the Forces in Mind Trust. This is an important body that helps to provide accurate data on exactly what is going on with our veterans and our armed forces. My hon. Friend mentioned that there are 2.5 million veterans. The profile of our veterans community is likely to change over the next 10 years. It will decrease by about 1 million because we will very sadly lose those who fought in the second world war.
As we are talking about the honesty and clarity of the data we need, I want to take the opportunity to emphasise up front that life in the armed forces is a rewarding and fantastic experience. The vast majority of personnel serve well, transition well and leave well. The nation has benefited from their service, and continues to benefit from their service once they have packed up their uniform and slid it across to the quartermaster that final time. We benefit because of the unique set of skills that people learn in the armed forces: leadership, teamwork, grit, tenacity, determination and a bit of attitude. Those are skillsets that any employer would want.
The majority of veterans transition back into society without a problem at all. Some 90% of people who have gone through our transition programmes are back in education or employment within six months of leaving the armed forces. When we have debates, it is therefore important that we emphasise this point and try to remove the negative myths about our armed forces that still abound.
One of those myths is that people who serve somehow come out damaged. I am afraid that people have the perception that if someone is wearing a uniform or did wear the uniform, they will somehow be damaged. Lord Ashcroft’s helpful report confirmed that that is absolutely not the case, as everyone who is close to the armed forces knows. If these myths perpetuate and we do not put the challenges in perspective, it can affect the reputation of the whole of the armed forces, it can affect employers who might think of recruiting somebody who was in the armed forces and it gives false perceptions of the experience. Veterans are no more likely to commit suicide, to have post-traumatic stress disorder or to have mental health issues than people in the general population.
That said, we are not complacent. We recognise that there are those who experience difficulties and need help, and we must be there to provide that help. We have brought forward the armed forces covenant to ensure that responsibility, which often goes way beyond the Ministry of Defence into other Government Departments. We want to ensure that those responsible are actually doing the things that they have to do in this regard.
Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)
The Minister is making an excellent contribution. When I visited Community Awareness Programme in my constituency, people told me about the large number of homeless veterans coming through their doors. The Minister is making a point about the liaison with local authorities and homelessness charities to provide specialist support to veterans who may have mental health needs that have not been addressed. That is very important, as such support can enable them to hold down a home, rebuild their families and enter civvy street again with dignity.
Mr Ellwood
I join the hon. Lady in paying tribute to the charity she mentioned. She makes a valid point, and I will come to the issue of homelessness in a second.
I stress that it is important to treat the issue of mental health with due concern, but we must also put it into perspective when we look at wider society. The issue has stayed in the shadows not just in the armed forces, but across society; there has been a stigma surrounding mental health, and it has become secondary to physical injuries. Yet, we need to recognise that a third of us are likely to be affected by mental health issues at some point in our lives.
If these early mental health issues are not challenged and are left unaddressed, they can effect a downwards spiral that reduces confidence, has an impact on employment, destroys relationships, feeds loneliness and, in extreme cases, leads to homelessness and suicide. That is why we are undertaking a comprehensive overhaul of how we deal with mental health. We launched a new mental health strategy last year that promotes positive mental health and wellbeing—we now speak of it as mental fitness—to ensure that it is on a par with physical fitness. We need to ensure that we prevent people from experiencing the effects of mental health issues to begin with, but also that if they are affected, there is good detection, so that we can recognise and analyse it. With detection comes treatment, and following treatment comes recovery. We need to remove the stigma. We need to change the culture not just in society but in the armed forces, so that it is okay for someone to put their hand up and say that they are suffering from something, or for someone to point out that a friend, spouse and so on has an issue.
Those are the changes we are introducing, to ensure that every captain of a ship, every platoon commander and every individual is aware that it is okay to step forward and that help is available. I am really pleased that the Secretary of State is passionate about that. One of the first things he did in his role was to introduce a 24/7 helpline, working with Combat Stress, to ensure that there is a number to call, with professional help on the other end of the line. That now applies to those in the armed forces and veterans.
We have introduced a wave of measures for veterans. My hon. Friend covered them articulately, but I will touch on them briefly. First, the veterans gateway provides online access to a variety of veterans charities. I join him in paying a huge tribute to the incredible work that more than 400 military-facing charities do to provide those serving in our armed forces and those who have retired with the necessary support. However, if someone is homeless or unemployed, which charity do they turn to? It is important that there is a simple, single online gateway—there is also a telephone line—that gives advice and directs people to the necessary support.
My hon. Friend touched on the veterans board. It is imperative that we co-ordinate the work of Government Departments—whether it is the Department of Health and Social Care, the Department for Education or the Department for Work and Pensions—and the devolved Administrations, because they all have a responsibility. Local government is also critical, and that is where we need to do more work. As has been mentioned, there are fine authorities such as those in Portsmouth and Plymouth that are familiar with the armed forces because they have military assets in their neighbourhood. We need to ensure that every local authority in the country recognises its obligations to the covenant and has an armed forces champion—one senior director who does not necessarily do the work up front but directs all aspects of work to ensure that support is available for veterans. That is new, and we need to work on it.
My hon. Friend touched on the veterans strategy and invited me to say a bit more about it. It will be launched in November and, again, is an initiative of the Defence Secretary. It focuses on four themes: first, looking at perceptions and trying to remove the myths surrounding the challenges that we face; secondly, improving co-ordination between the support that is out there; thirdly, offering a cultural shift in our attitudes towards veterans; and finally, there will be studies on specific areas, including mental health and homelessness, which we know are bigger issues that we need to pay more attention to.
Let me be the first to recognise that while we have done significant work and have some incredible projects coming through, there is an awful lot more to do to sharpen the practical impact of the covenant and ensure that we do our best to provide support for our brave veterans. We are immensely proud of our armed forces, given what they do for the nation. Our commitment to them must go beyond equipping and training them well as they serve, to supporting them after they leave. In society, not just in defence, as we become more comfortable talking about and understanding mental health, everyone can play their part.
In conclusion, as we approach Armed Forces Day, I once again congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important Adjournment debate. Let us further encourage people to think differently about our ex-service personnel. Whether as former soldiers, sailors or air personnel, reservists or MPs representing our proud and patriotic constituents, we all have a role in making this happen. We all know what our veterans have done in the past for our country, but we also know that they still have lots to give our nation in the future. We need to make sure that we put our considerable energies together to get that message out there.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Research Code of Practice and Draft Accreditation Criteria
Draft Statistics Statement of Principles and Draft Code of Practice on Changes to Data Systems
(6 years, 5 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Research Code of Practice and Draft Accreditation Criteria.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Statistics Statement of Principles and draft Code of Practice on Changes to Data Systems.
Margot James
It is a pleasure to serve for the first time under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. For the data sharing powers under part 5 of the Digital Economy Act 2017 to become operational, the requisite codes of practice accompanying each power must be approved by Parliament. Chapter 5 of part 5 of the Act enables information held by a public authority in connection with the authority’s functions to be shared with another person for the purposes of research, subject to a number of conditions. One of those conditions is that the persons involved and the research being carried out is accredited by the UK Statistics Authority, referred to as the Statistics Board in the Act.
The Act requires the UK Statistics Authority to issue a code of practice about the disclosure, processing and handling of information under that power, as well as a set of accreditation criteria. That is to provide clarity and transparency about how the research power in chapter 5 will operate. The research power is intended to facilitate researchers having safe and secure access to data held by public authorities for accredited research purposes in the public interest. The framework in chapter 5 is designed to help to position the UK at the forefront of the international research landscape, ensuring that the economic and social benefits associated with research are more easily realised.
The code of practice clearly sets out the principles to which those people disclosing, processing or accessing data must pay regard when performing the functions for which they are accredited, to ensure that those making use of the power understand the expectations and requirements in terms of how information will be handled. The accreditation criteria set out in detail the conditions that must be met by processors, researchers and their projects before accreditation will be granted.
Chapter 7 of part 5 of the Digital Economy Act amends the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 to provide the UK Statistics Authority and its executive office—the Office for National Statistics—with new powers, designed to facilitate greater and more efficient access to a range of data sources held within the public and private sectors. That is intended to support ongoing improvements in the quality, relevance and timeliness of official statistics in a changing world.
The Act requires the UK Statistics Authority to prepare a statement of principles and procedures, setting out how the authority will operate the powers. That is supplemented by a code of practice containing guidance for public authorities when making changes to their data systems when they supply data to the authority to support the production of official statistics.
As with other data sharing codes of practice in part 5 of the Digital Economy Act, both the research code and the statistics statement have been drafted to be compliant with the Data Protection Act 2018. Likewise, we worked with other Government Departments, the devolved Administrations, the Information Commissioner’s Office, research organisations and civil society groups with an interest in privacy to develop the research code and accreditation criteria, and the statistics statement and code of practice on changes to data systems.
The statistics and research documents were subject to a six-week public consultation. Responses indicated that they were welcomed as clear and easy to understand. It is worth noting the comments of Sir Andrew Dilnot, former chair of the UK Statistics Authority, who so clearly articulated the benefits of the statistics and research provisions in the Digital Economy Act. Sir Andrew said that the legislation
“represents a unique opportunity to deliver the transformation of UK statistics…delivering significant efficiencies and savings for individuals, households and businesses. Decision makers need accurate and timely data to make informed decisions, in particular about the allocation of public resource.”
He said that the legislation
“would deliver better statistics and statistical research to help Britain make better decisions.”
The codes of practice and statement of principles will help to realise those honourable and important ambitions, and I commend them to the Committee.
Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. These measures are incredibly important because they will become the foundation for most of the public service reform that lies ahead in the next 20 years, so I want to start with a word of praise for and thanks to Sir Andrew Dilnot for the way in which he pioneered this agenda when he was chair of the UK Statistics Authority.
I think that the Minister has slightly undersold the fact that we are moving from a position whereby public policy decisions are made using official statistics to an increasing use of real-time official statistics. Anyone who has had to take big public decisions based on data that is available will know how frustrating it is to be relying on data that is basically looking in the rear-view mirror. I am thinking of, for example, the way in which we revise GDP forecasts, tax forecasts and annually managed expenditure forecasts. That leads to errors and mistakes by politicians such as the hon. Lady and, indeed, myself, in previous posts, so the power of these measures will be incredibly important in the years ahead.
In traditional British civil service fashion, what we have is a set of measures designed to create some process integrity, and some order in the process, so that decisions are taken according to a process that is well understood, well articulated and set out on bits of paper. It was slightly surprising, though, that the Minister did not say anything about the ethics that would be involved in the decisions that were taken, the way in which data is collected and the way in which data is interpreted over the years to come.
The data and the provisions in these measures will be incredibly important in two particularly important fields of public policy. One is tax forecasting and the other is the use of health data. As the International Monetary Fund and Christine Lagarde said earlier this year, the advent of the digital economy creates the ability to start doing real-time tax forecasting, based on predictive models that are reasonably robust. That has an incredible impact on the Treasury’s ability to put together Budgets that bear some resemblance to the truth and the real world.
However, there will be ethical questions about the way in which the information is collected and interpreted and, crucially, who the information is made available to, whether that is accounting firms, for example, or businesses that rely on accurate market understandings in order to produce sales forecasts. There will be all kinds of uses for this kind of information, which is of tremendous benefit to all sorts of people, but the ethics of what is released and how things are released are incredibly important.
In the area of health data, the information that we are talking about is even more important. Who will have access to patterns of health diagnosis information? Will it be the insurance companies? Will we begin to see the break-up of the risk pool because insurance companies are able to use the data to price the Minister’s health insurance in a different way from someone else’s? Who will make the information available to drugs companies, for example? How will that be done?
The Minister, in our debates earlier this year, put some store by the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation that the Government propose. We still do not know much about that. We do not know when it will be set up, its terms of reference, who will be in it, its scope or how people will be appointed. However, the Minister has said nothing about the inter-relationship between a Government centre for artificial intelligence ethics and the measures before us. That is surprising because, in relation to principle 3, paragraph 5.1 on page 7 in the first set of measures states explicitly:
“Data can only be disclosed to processors…where expressly permitted, and must comply with the six conditions set out in the Act.”
Those six conditions are pretty high level, and that is why the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation is so important. However, as the centre produces judgments, how will they be reflected in revisions of these orders? Will we have a Committee meeting such as this every six months as we seek to update the orders in the light of new judgments that come from the centre?
The orders have our broad support, but the Minister must say more about how the architecture for revision of the orders will unfold, given the important institutional reforms that she seeks to introduce.
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
I am pleased that the Whips put me on this statutory instrument Committee because it gives me an opportunity to ask important questions that need to be answered.
Given the scandal over Cambridge Analytica, the appalling behaviour of Facebook and the way in which data and information, including information of this House of Commons, was stolen and then sold to The Daily Telegraph a few years ago, how confident can we be about the processes here and the transferring of data and personal information? The draft research code of practice for accreditation criteria states that that information will go to various organisations that will be allowed to process and use it. Many of those organisations will get commercial benefit from that. Will the state receive any income as a result of the commercial exploitation of personal data, which was not acquired for the benefit of a commercial company but was acquired for fulfilling a function within our health or education system or for the general governance of our society? Why should private companies benefit without the individuals themselves who presumably own that data or the Government Departments that collected that data being beneficiaries of that income?
Liam Byrne
My hon. Friend might know that our noble Friend Lord Parry introduced proposals to amend the Data Protection Bill to ensure that the wealth that may arise from the investigation of health records, for example, was held in a sovereign data fund. These ideas of sovereign data funds will catch on over the next few years, but at the moment we do not have any provisions to capture what is socially produced wealth—data—and to recycle that wealth for the good of the nation.
Mike Gapes
I am grateful for that information. I was not aware of that, but it adds to my knowledge.
Principle 7 on retention and onward disclosure states that the pre-processed data will be retained “for a limited time”, but that can then be extended. It is not clear how often it can be extended or whether there could be indefinite extensions. I want to know whether at those extension points a premium would be charged to the organisations that retained that data in order to continue to use it for years to come.
The various documentation is copious and I do not intend to delay the Committee unnecessarily, but I have one other question on the statistics statement of principles. Many organisations collect data. Every time I go into Sainsbury’s or Tesco and pay with my card, they seem to have collected information about what I have bought. When they send me their points, they send me vouchers to buy the things I normally buy to encourage me to go back to their store with that data. No doubt the data is very interesting and useful, but it could be very useful to the Government.
If bodies and institutions that are part of the Government—public sector organisations—must make data available to the UK Statistics Authority, why should there not be an obligation on private sector organisations, commercial companies and retailers to make data available? That would be very interesting. For example, if the Department of Health and Social Care could analyse the consumption patterns of a cohort of people by age and location, we might be able better to target our anti-obesity initiatives for healthy eating. We could make a judgment about the size of packets or whether orders of a product would be useful for the data within the Department of Health and Social Care.
I am not clear whether such obligations will apply to the private sector. From reading the codes superficially, it seems that they will not. I would be grateful to know whether there is a plan to think about that. We want joined-up government. Private sector organisations are able to exploit public data, but surely the public should be able to make use of it for the benefit of citizens as a whole and for the public good. Data will increasingly be a public good. Whether it is held by the Government or by private companies or individuals, it could be important in improving health, extending life expectancy and giving people better life chances. It should be made available in a timely manner, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill pointed out, to the Government when they are making decisions. I hope the Minister will address those points.
Margot James
I thank the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill and the hon. Member for Ilford South for their questions and comments.
The hon. Member for Ilford South expressed concerns about the use of publicly acquired data by private organisations for commercial gain. He rightly pointed out that much of the data collected, particularly in the national health service, was not collected with the intention of realising commercial gain. I assure him that, under these codes, only statisticians and accredited researchers whose projects are intended for the public good will have access to information held by the UK Statistics Authority. Individuals, households and businesses are never identifiable in any of the statistical output. That is a fundamental principle of international statistics management and we intend to adhere to it strictly, as we always have. I further assure him that, under the Data Protection Act 2018, there are significant penalties for anyone or any organisation that seeks to re-identify data that has previously been de-identified.
There are no plans to compel private organisations and companies to make public data that they have collected about the consumer behaviour that the hon. Gentleman cited as an example. There are protections in place because those organisations must comply with data protection legislation in the processing, collection and management of data. I hope that reassures him.
Mike Gapes
I asked whether there would be commercial gain from the use of this data, and if so whether we would expect the public sector to benefit from the commercial companies that use data generated by public bodies.
Margot James
The hon. Gentleman asks me to look to the future more that I am able to do. To reiterate what I said, all data that emanates from publicly funded research must be used for the benefit of the public good. That may in time also produce a commercial return, but it would have to be for the public good.
In the deal between DeepMind, a private sector company, and Moorfields Eye hospital, a national health organisation—they have come together in a joint venture—the data is being used with AI to improve diagnosis and treatment patterns at the hospital. The connection between commercial gain and the public interest is being well managed in that example, and strict rules will be in place to ensure that any further such commercial endeavours using public data will be similarly managed under an ethical framework.
That leads me neatly to the remarks and questions of the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill. I share his optimism that real-time data will hugely benefit public decision making and I am sorry if I downplayed that significant advantage in my opening remarks. I certainly believe that that will be immensely valuable, and that it is underpinned by the codes of practice we are discussing.
We are in the process of establishing the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. A chair has been appointed, other board members will be appointed during the summer and its remit is available for public comment. In its embryonic form, it is working with the UK Statistics Authority to ensure seamless communication between the two bodies in future. I agree with the shadow Minister that that is important.
The shadow Minister talked about the ethical principles that must continue to underpin the use of data sourced in the way that the UK Statistics Authority manages. The use of data must have clear benefits to the users and serve the public good. Where individuals are concerned, identity is protected. Information must be kept confidential and secure, and consent will have been considered appropriately. Data used, and methods employed, are consistent with legal requirements such as the Data Protection Act, the Human Rights Act 1998, the Statistics and Registration Service Act and the common law duty of confidence. The access, use and sharing of data must be transparent and communicated clearly, and accessibility for the general public must be protected.
Liam Byrne
I am grateful to learn that there is a seamless channel of communication between the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation and the UK Statistics Authority, but that was not the question I asked. I asked how the guidelines are going to be revised as the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation pronounces new judgments. It is not for the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation and the UK Statistics Authority to sort something out between themselves; it is for this House to set out the principles by which both organisations act.
Margot James
The right hon. Gentleman is right—he did ask that question. The UK Statistics Authority will continue to keep these principles, and documentation underpinning these principles, under close review. That will include the work of the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation as it evolves. The future review of these principles and the codes underpinning them will be subject to scrutiny of both Houses of Parliament under the negative procedure.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Statistics Statement of Principles and Draft Code of Practice on Changes to Data Systems
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Statistics Statement of Principles and draft Code of Practice on Changes to Data Systems.—(Margot James.)
Petitions
Home Education: draft guidance and the consultation
Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill (Third sitting)
Thursday 28th June 2018
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesRead Full debate Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 View all Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 28 June 2018 - (28 Jun 2018)
The Chair
If Members wish, they may remove their jackets. Will they please ensure that any electronic devices are switched to silent?
This morning we begin the line-by-line consideration of the Bill. The selection list for today’s sitting is available in the room and shows how the selected amendments have been grouped for debate. Grouped amendments are generally on the same or similar issues. Please note that decisions on amendments take place not in the order that they are debated but in the order that they appear on the amendment paper. The selection and grouping list shows the order of debates. Decisions on each amendment are taken when we come to the clause that the amendment affects.
I will use my discretion to decide whether to allow a separate stand part debate on individual clauses and schedules following debates on relevant amendments. I ask Members wishing to push to a separate Division an amendment that is not the lead amendment in a group to please let me know in advance, and I will use my discretion in deciding whether to allow such a vote.
Copies of written evidence that the Committee has received since our last meeting have been made available in the room.
Clause 1
Expressions of support for a proscribed organisation
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 1, page 1, line 5, at end insert—
“(A1) Section 12 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (support) is amended as follows.
(B1) In subsection (1), after paragraph (b), insert—
‘(c) in doing so is reckless as to whether another person will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation.’”.
This amendment would amend the existing offence of inviting support for a proscribed organisation so that a person must be reckless as to whether another person is encouraged to support a proscribed organisation to commit the offence.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 3, in clause 1, page 1, leave out line 6 and insert—
“(1) After subsection (1) insert–”.
This amendment is consequential on Amendment (2).
Amendment 1, in clause 1, page 1, line 10, leave out paragraph (b) and insert—
“(b) in doing so, intends to encourage support for a proscribed organisation”.
This amendment would mean that the offence is only committed where a person intends to encourage support for a proscribed organisation.
Clause stand part.
For the sake of clarity, this debate may range across all aspects of clause 1, in addition to those points covered by the amendments.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. I first want to make a few general remarks about clause 1.
I think we all accept that there is a need to update the law in this area, and that is for a number of reasons. The first is the evolving and changing nature of the terrorist threat over past decades. There have also been changes in technology, which I appreciate we will deal with in later clauses. However, there is also—this is vital for clause 1—the fact that we now have experience of the Terrorism Act 2000 in our criminal justice system and in the decisions taken by the Crown Prosecution Service.
The clause essentially updates section 12 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Just so that we are clear, section 12(1) of the Act indicates:
“A person commits an offence if—(a) he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and (b) the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property”.
The key part of that subsection is the inviting of support for a proscribed organisation.
When Assistant Commissioner Basu gave evidence to the Committee on Tuesday, I was careful to ask him whether there were examples of situations that are not covered under the 2000 Act but would be captured—or are intended to be captured—by this new offence, and he gave a couple examples. One was the case of Mohammed Shamsuddin and the Channel 4 documentary, “The Jihadis Next Door”. He referred to a speech that Shamsuddin gave on 27 June 2015, in which
“it was very clear that he supported Daesh and what they were doing…He criticised Gay Pride and said that gay people should be thrown from tall buildings. Having spoken on recent shootings in Tunisia, he said, “The spark was lit,” and that the listeners knew the rest.”—[Official Report, Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Public Bill Committee, 26 June 2018; c. 6, Q3.]
Of course, the problem with those remarks, which I will come back to, is that they are not captured by the 2000 Act as it stands, because there was no specific invitation to others to join the cause.
The other example given was of Omar Brooks, in relation to an incident on 4 July 2015. Again, there was clearly talk about religion being spread by the sword and about it not being a soft religion about peace, and there was the mocking of a Shi’ite who had spoken out against killing of Lee Rigby. The tone of the speech shows clear support for the concept and principles of Daesh, but, again, it does not take the additional step of inviting support from others.
Prior to this clause being proposed, the law as it stands was interpreted in the case of Choudary and Rahman, which the Minister referred to in his questions to the witnesses on Tuesday. About the offence as it stands, the Court of Appeal said:
“When considering the proportionality of the interference, it is important to emphasise that the section only prohibits inviting support for a proscribed organisation with the requisite intent. It does not prohibit the expression of views or opinions, no matter how offensive, but only the knowing invitation of support from others for the proscribed organisation.”
In essence, along with the two examples I have given on the basis of Assistant Commissioner Basu’s evidence, that captures where the law is and where it stops. There are others acting in a clearly unattractive way whom we wish to extend the law to.
The issue then becomes how, precisely, we want to draft the law to achieve that. Nobody says that freedom of expression is a wholly unqualified right—it is not, actually—but I am sure we all wish to strike a balance between people expressing views that we find distasteful and may not agree with, but that none the less come into our public debate and are defeated by others, and the clear nature of the offence, which is about recruiting people to the terrorist cause. How we draw that distinction is very important.
The amendments in my name seek to consider how we get that balance right. Nobody in the Committee would want to put something unworkable on the statute book, or something that was likely to attract a declaration of incompatibility with the Human Rights Act 1998. I tabled these amendments for the Minister’s consideration in that spirit and to assist in striking that balance appropriately. This is not a partisan issue, and I hope that we would all wish to strike that balance appropriately and to make the clause effective.
The two amendments—there are really two amendments, although there are three on the amendment paper—seek to look at the original offence under the Terrorism Act 2000 and at how the extension of that offence appears in clause 1. I have put forward two options: first, that the offence is committed only when the person intends to encourage support for a proscribed organisation—in other words, when the opinion is expressed, as set out in clause 1, together with intention; and, secondly, that recklessness is attached to the offence. Both options extend the existing offence, but not quite as widely as clause 1 as it stands.
Recklessness is not an unknown legal concept in our criminal law; on Tuesday, the Crown Prosecution Service gave evidence about it. There has been a change in the concept of recklessness in law. It is what we call subjective recklessness, so it is about what the individual person thinks about the risk. Recklessness would be far more difficult as a concept in this area if it was defined as it was prior to 2003, when it was about an objective view and about others assuming what that person might mean. With the restriction that is in our law on recklessness anyway, recklessness should perhaps be less of a concern for the Committee.
I offer the two amendments for consideration in a constructive spirit. Their purpose is to ensure that, when the Committee looks at extending the law, as we all agree we should be doing, to examples of what the Minister has referred to as the “charismatic preacher” and to the impact of a person who is recruiting people to the cause, but who is not quite using a form of words that is captured in the intention in the Terrorism Act 2000, we do that in a way that is workable and proportionate and does not draw a declaration of incompatibility under the Human Rights Act. I therefore hope the Minister will indicate that the amendments will be considered.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I rise to support the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Torfaen.
The Chair
Order. Sorry, we cannot debate the amendment until I have put it to the Committee—it is my error, not yours. The question is that amendment 2, to clause 1, is made.
Gavin Newlands
Practice makes perfect, Ms Ryan.
I rise in support of the amendments. Clause 1 will create a new offence for expressing an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, in circumstances where the perpetrator
“is reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation.”
That extends the existing offence of inviting support for a proscribed organisation to cover acts such as making supportive statements, approving of certain attitudes or behaviours, and providing intellectual support.
It has been argued by others that the term “invitation of support” is already a rather broad concept. The Court of Appeal’s decision in Choudary and Rahman, which has already been mentioned, held that a person need not be personally providing support for a banned organisation; rather, the criminality lies in inviting support from a third party. The support need not, therefore, be tangible or practical, but could include approval, endorsement or other intellectual support.
We are generally supportive of the Bill, and we offer amendments only to try to improve it. However, clause 1 removes the requirement of proving intent. In doing so, it could be claimed that it pushes the law further away from actual terrorism and well into the realm of free speech and opinion—values and freedoms that all four countries of the UK rightly cherish. The clause actively and intentionally reverses the Court of Appeal’s conclusion that the criminal law
“does not prohibit the holding of opinions or beliefs supportive of a proscribed organisation; or the expression of those opinions or beliefs”.
Although recklessness is a commonly used legal term in terms of acts against the person, I have misgivings about using it to criminalise speech. The Joint Committee on Human Rights made that point, as was mentioned during the evidence session on Tuesday, when it said:
“recklessness is normally applied to actions that are themselves within the realm of criminality…if you hit someone or deceive them then it is absolutely appropriate for a jury to be able to convict you of an offence even if you did not intend the consequences of your actions. The same nexus between action and consequence should not exist for speech offences. Speech does not naturally reside in the realm of criminality.”
Others far better versed than me in this area share those opinions. The former Director of Public Prosecutions, Ken Macdonald, wrote:
“The mere fact that someone holds an opinion can never be a reason to prosecute. You can think what you like.”
Without the right to express a thought or belief, freedom of expression would be meaningless. The right to express an opinion is fundamental. Clause 1 would prove that assertion wrong by creating a reason to prosecute someone simply for expressing an opinion.
In addition, the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) wrote:
“If the Irish Taoiseach made a speech about the Easter Rising as a glorious moment in Irish history, and if you have someone who happened to be a member of the Real IRA and it motivated them to go on with some unfinished business, could the Taoiseach be arrested?”
That would be absurd, but given how wide the clause is, that could be its effect. As such, we support amendment 1 and the other amendments tabled by those on the Opposition Front Bench. We are happy to do so, because changing the legal test for the offence of expressing an opinion or belief from recklessness to having to prove intent is something we should all support.
The Minister for Security and Economic Crime (Mr Ben Wallace)
I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan, on this hot Thursday morning. At the beginning, I want to refer to the importance of the Bill. As we sat listening to Liberty give evidence on Tuesday, the jury returned a verdict of guilty on Mr Khalid Ali. He was convicted for being about to mount an attack on Whitehall last year. What is interesting is that his conviction was based on biometrics collected in Afghanistan four years ago and a schedule 7 stop at a point of entry to the UK that allowed us to collect those biometrics. If there was ever an ironic or coincidental time to show the importance of biometrics and schedule 7 in combating such deliberate, planned crime, this is it. That individual has since admitted to making 300 improvised explosive devices in Afghanistan. He was en route, we think, to pose a threat to either this House or the Downing Street-Whitehall area. That is a pertinent example, and we should reflect on it as we progress through the Bill.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Torfaen for raising his points. I fully recognise the spirit in which all Members have contributed to the Bill, which is to try to improve it. We want to deliver a Bill that will work and that does not impinge on freedom of speech or tackle the values we hold. It is about striking the balance between that necessity and keeping us safe and secure. The Bill is also about adapting to the moving threat, which is exactly what terrorists do. Good terrorists spot the flaws in our legislation and move to exploit them. Here I evoke Mr Choudary, who is currently at Her Majesty’s pleasure. For well over 10 years, he managed to skilfully exploit that bit about encouragement versus inspiration to send hundreds of people to their deaths—no doubt a number of them at their own hands. There were the young girls from north London—sometimes deluded, sometimes seduced or groomed—who I suspect did not really know what they were getting themselves into. That is why the Government think it important to try to address the gap.
Dealing effectively with the power of inspiration or incitement is not new. We have it in both the Public Order Act 1986 and the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, which the last Labour Government brought in to try to deal with inspiration. Effectively, that meant that if someone incites the hatred of a race, they are guilty of an offence. They do not necessarily have to directly direct people to go out and attack Jewish or Muslim people; they can be found guilty of incitement. It is not a new concept in our law, and we are trying to reflect it in terms of those being inspired to join a proscribed terrorist organisation or take action. That at its heart is what clause 1 is trying to do.
A valid point was made about the issue of recklessness and that people must have regard to whether their comments are reckless. My hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk), who is a practising criminal barrister, pointed out that recklessness is a well-established concept. He used an example, although in the physical assault space, of someone walking down a high street with a baseball bat and whanging it round someone’s head. It would not need to be proved that they went out to break someone’s jaw with a baseball bat. A direct motive or intent would not need to be proved; recklessness would be recognised and that person would probably be found guilty of assault, grievous bodily harm or actual bodily harm, depending on the severity of the hit with the baseball bat.
Recklessness is therefore well established, and I recognise what the hon. Member for Torfaen is trying to achieve. Amendment 1 would remove the recklessness element of the new subsection (1A) offence, which clause 1 inserts into section 12 of the Terrorism Act 2000, and replace that with a mens rea requirement to prove that a person expressing an opinion or belief in support of a proscribed activity intended to influence another person to support the organisation rather than that they had been reckless as to whether that would be the result.
Amendment 2 would add a recklessness limb to the existing offence of inviting support for a proscribed organisation at section 12(1) of the 2000 Act. I am alive to the concerns raised about the case and agree that it is a sensitive area in which we must tread carefully to ensure that the laws we pass are proportionate and go no further than necessary.
As the Security Minister, I am acutely aware of the need to ensure that those tasked with keeping us safe from a very real and serious terrorist threat have the powers they need. Those two imperatives are not mutually exclusive, and it is not an either/or question. However, measures such as this, which come closer than most laws to delicate issues such as the right to freedom of expression, can none the less bring the intersection between the two into sharp focus.
The Committee’s role is to consider whether the Bill strikes the right balance. I respect the contributions of the hon. Members for Torfaen and for Paisley and Renfrewshire North, which were made in the spirit of improving the Bill. However, I must respectfully disagree with the hon. Member for Torfaen. His amendments would not merely moderate the clause or tip its balance in one direction or another; rather, they would entirely negate its intended effect such that it would have little—if any—impact on the current operation of section 12. As a result, a gap that has been clearly highlighted by the police, MI5 and the CPS in their ability to act against individuals who mean us harm would not be closed.
While the hon. Gentleman’s amendments are well intentioned, they would continue to leave a gap in the law and therefore put the public at unnecessary risk. I hope that the Committee will be persuaded of that if I explain in more detail the background to this measure, why it is necessary and how it will operate. Since 2000, it has been illegal to invite another person to support a proscribed terrorist organisation such as Daesh or the neo-Nazi group National Action, whether an invitation is explicit or implicit. What matters is that there is an invitation, which is to say a deliberate encouragement to someone to support the group.
I will not refer to the cases that the hon. Gentleman mentioned in pointing out the necessity of trying to close that gap. It is not always possible to prosecute individuals who make public speeches or otherwise express views in support of proscribed organisations if it cannot be proved that those statements amounted to deliberate invitations to others to support an organisation. That is the case even if a speech or statement is clearly inflammatory, clear about the individual’s support for the terrorist organisation and, on any reasonable assessment, likely to cause the audience to be influenced to support the organisation such that it would be reckless for the person to make such a statement.
As I have said, the police, MI5 and the CPS have been very clear that that represents a gap in our ability to prosecute people who may be engaged in radicalisation. That was clear in Tuesday’s evidence from Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu and Greg McGill from the Crown Prosecution Service. The clause will close that gap by amending section 12 of the 2000 Act so that it will be an offence for an individual to express support for a proscribed organisation if, in doing so, they are reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation.
In recent years, the police and intelligence services have seen individuals progress—very quickly in some cases—from the initial stages of radicalisation to actual planning or carrying out of attacks. Such activities covered by this provision can have a powerful and a very harmful effect in initiating or moving along that process. It is therefore imperative that the police have the powers they need to intervene to stop such radicalisation from taking place. In that, they will not only protect potentially vulnerable individuals who are the target of the radicalisation from further harm, but possibly stop terrorist activity that stems from an individual who has been radicalised and indoctrinated, which could cause immense harm to the public.
We have discussed the case of Anjem Choudary. Numerous people who have appeared before the courts on trial for the most serious terrorism offences have been his associates or contacts and have been members of al-Muhajiroun. They have also attended meetings and lectures at which he has spoken or have otherwise been influenced by him. I could equally mention other preachers, such as Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza. I cannot give the Committee an absolute assurance that these individuals would have been prosecuted sooner had clause 1 been in force—that would be a matter for the independent CPS upon careful consideration of all the available evidence—but clause 1 would have given the police and the CPS a very important and potentially much more fruitful option to pursue.
I will mention the two more recent examples provided by Neil Basu in his evidence where this provision might have made a difference. First, Mohammed Shamsuddin, who appeared in Channel 4’s “The Jihadis Next Door”, had an extensive history of involvement in radicalisation and the spreading of extremist propaganda. In one instance, he gave an inflammatory public speech that was clearly supportive of Daesh. He mocked a sheikh who had spoken against the killing of Lee Rigby.
Secondly, Omar Brooks was convicted in 2008 of terrorist fundraising and inciting terrorism overseas, and again in 2016 of breaching travel restrictions imposed under notification requirements that clauses 11 and 12 of the Bill deal with. A prolific preacher of hate, in a public speech following the 2015 Kuwait mosque bombing and the Sousse attack in Tunisia, Brooks shouted anti-kufr rhetoric in relation to the attacks and said, “The spark was lit”. It was clear from the tone and content of the speech that he supported Daesh and what it was doing.
Of course, in a free society, we should not seek to criminalise individuals just because what they say is offensive or shocking, but there comes a point where such speeches cross a line, because in this instance they incite support for terrorist groups. I do not raise those examples simply to drag the names of the individuals through the mud. Rather, I want to illustrate to the Committee the type of case we are dealing with, which this clause is intended to capture.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
It is a delight to serve under your chairship, Ms Ryan. For my sake—I may be being a bit slow—could the Minister be precise about why the amendments would prevent action being taken against the sort of individuals that he describes, who, rightly, we want action to be taken against? That would be very helpful.
Mr Wallace
I will get to it technically, but in summary, if recklessness is added to someone already inviting support, support is already being invited. The recklessness bit is secondary, because the person has invited the support. The problem with one of those amendments is that it tacks on recklessness to something that is already an offence, but it will not change that offence, because the person has already done the inviting.
Mr Wallace
I will get to that. These amendments would prevent clause 1 from having effect. If the reckless element were removed from the proposed new offence and replaced with a mens rea requirement, it would have to be proven that the person invited it. If that can be proven, it would be the existing offence. It is unnecessary and it would narrow back to the original, existing statute, rather than broaden to deal with recklessness where the person is using themselves to incite or inspire.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
I am not sure that is quite it, but let us use that second example. There is the original offence of invitation of support and the new offence, which talks about expression of opinion. At the moment, recklessness is attached to that, but intention could be attached to it. It would not be as broad, but it would be broader than the existing offence.
Mr Wallace
That is my point: it will narrow it from what we are proposing. It would pretty much mirror the existing offence. One of the alternatives in the amendments would add recklessness to the existing offence, if I am not mistaken, but the existing offence is that the person has invited support, so whether or not they are reckless does not really matter, because they are guilty of an offence.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
The overall point is correct: the two amendments taken as alternatives certainly would not broaden the first offence to the extent that the new clause does, but they would both broaden it. At the moment, the first offence is intentional, so you can add recklessness to it, or you can put intention on the first part of the new offence. In both cases you would broaden it, but you certainly would not have the impact of going back to the original one; you just would not broaden it to the extent that the full clause 1 does.
Mr Wallace
The point is that both your amendments would require us to prove intent. You are saying, “If you add it to the old offence, you have to prove intent, because the old offence as it stands includes intent.” If you add intent to the new offence, you are effectively mirroring the existing one. Clause 1 is about trying to deal with a gap where you find yourself unable to prove direct intent but—I go back to the idea of the baseball bat—know that someone is recklessly inspiring people to join or follow a proscribed organisation.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
I am grateful to the Minister for being so generous in giving way. If you add recklessness to the offence as it is, you broaden it. Similarly, if you broaden it out to expressions of opinion and you add intention, that also broadens it. What it does not do is broaden it to the extent that the new clause as a totality does. That is the point.
The Chair
Can I just remind hon. Members that if you refer to “you”, you are referring to me? The same rules apply as in the Chamber.
The Chair
On some occasions you are, and on other occasions you are referring to each other.
Mr Wallace
Madam Chair, I think the point is that both amendments require more proof of intent than we have currently decided we are trying to sort. The hon. Member for Torfaen is seeking with his amendments for us to have to prove intent. If it is to prove intent in the old existing statute—intent plus recklessness—we still have to prove intent. If we add intent to the new thing, it will still bring it in. My view and the Government’s view is that that is effectively starting to mirror the existing offence, and therefore this is about recognising that intent is already in existence in the statute book. This is where you use yourself—not yourself, Ms Ryan, but a person—
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Not that we are saying the Chair is not inspirational. [Interruption.]
Mr Wallace
I am backed up from nowhere by Lord Diplock. The hon. Member for Torfaen makes valid points, but the issue here is what Lord Diplock said in the case of Sweet v. Parsley—you could not make that name up, could you? He did not say it to me, but nevertheless it came to me. He said that it is
“difficult to see how an invitation could be inadvertent.”
The point is that, if the hon. Gentleman is saying that by adding “reckless” we inadvertently go to intent, we must get that challenge right. We are trying to plug the fact that at the moment, unless we can prove intent, we find it very hard to deal with that aspiration.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
With the greatest respect to Lord Diplock, subjective recklessness is not necessarily inadvertent. That is the whole point. However, it is not my intention to press the matter today and I would be very happy to enter into further discussions with the Minister on that point.
Mr Wallace
Lord Diplock has thrown me off my stride, or more likely it was Sweet v. Parsley that threw me off my stride, as it is lunchtime. Our contention is that, if we accept the amendment, there would be no point to clause 1, and that the new section 12(1A) offence would simply mirror the effect of the existing section.
Similarly, the addition of a recklessness test to the existing offence of inviting support at section 12(1) would not address the difficulty. The requirement to prove that an invitation—that is, a deliberate encouragement—had been made would not be removed, and would still need to be met in a case in order to make out the offence. Again, therefore, the current gap would remain. Recognising what the hon. Gentleman has said, I invite him to withdraw the amendment and support clause 1. However, in light of his comments I would be happy to meet him to discuss it.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
I am grateful for that final point, and on the basis that the Minister is happy to meet me to discuss the matter, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
The Chair
We discussed clause 1 stand part as part of the group, so I shall put the question forthwith.
Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2
Publication of images
Nick Thomas-Symonds
I beg to move amendment 4, in clause 2, page 2, line 6, at end insert—
“(1C) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1A) to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for the publication of the image.”
This amendment explicitly sets out that a person charged with the new offence under subsection (3) has a defence if they can prove a reasonable excuse for the publication of the image.
Clause 2 fits into the category of offences I have mentioned that are being updated to take account of technology. Amendment 4 is not unreasonable and would simply set out the defence of reasonable excuse. Whether that is necessary may be subject to argument, and I am happy to listen to the Minister’s position, but I tabled the amendment to give a degree of comfort in relation to the scope of the offence.
We would all agree that the situation needs to be updated. It is set out in section 13 of the Terrorism Act 2000, on uniform. Under that provision, which was of course passed some 18 years ago, a
“person in a public place commits an offence if he—(a) wears an item of clothing, or (b) wears, carries or displays an article, in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.”
A term of imprisonment not exceeding six months can be imposed.
The problem that arises is that people can now perfectly well wear such an item of clothing, or display an article, in a private place and take a photograph to be quickly disseminated on social media such as Facebook or Twitter, or by other means. It is right for the Government to look at that. Wearing something in a private place and putting a picture of it on social media could result in far more people seeing it than would have happened in the situation envisaged in the old offence, where the item was displayed in a public place.
My first reason for tabling the amendment is simply to add a note of caution. We are moving from criminalising behaviour in a public place to criminalising something that happens in a private place in the first instance, but which technology allows to be disseminated in the public sphere.
The second reason is that we should take care not to extend the criminal law to behaviour that we might all think unattractive—I hesitate to use the word “reckless” after the previous discussion—but that none the less would not give rise to terrorist intent. In a question during the evidence sitting on Tuesday, I gave the example of a 16 or 17-year-old going to a fancy dress party who wears something that we might all regard as offensive, in bad taste and showing poor judgment, but whom no one would seriously want to criminalise as the clause would do. The answer I received from Mr McGill on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service and Assistant Commissioner Basu was simply that, in such cases, they would not be interested in pushing the matter into court. Assistant Commissioner Basu said, with respect to the CPS and Mr McGill:
“I would never get such a case past him anyway, even if I was prepared to put that case. We are far too busy on genuine acts of terrorism to be concerned with such a case. What it might point to is somebody who is in trouble and needs a bit of guidance”.––[Official Report, Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Public Bill Committee, 26 June 2018; c.7-8, Q4.]
He referred to Prevent.
Assistant Commissioner Basu is right. Such behaviour might suggest that someone had problems. It might just suggest in the situation I described that they were being offensive for the sake of it. I obviously appreciate, too, that the Crown Prosecution Service has to apply a public interest test, but at the same time, while that prosecutorial discretion is important, the legal framework we set out in the first place is also important.
I completely support the intention of the clause. It is right that we update the law in the social-media age. We want to deal with the dissemination of unpleasant images. However, it is not an unreasonable amendment to. We ask simply to put that reasonable excuse on the face of the Bill to cover the situations I have suggested may arise.
Gavin Newlands
I neglected to say earlier that it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. As has been outlined by the Labour Front-Bench spokesman, clause 2 extends the offence that would result in criminalisation for the publication of an image, the wearing of an item of clothing or the display of an article such as a flag in such a way that would arouse reasonable suspicion that a person is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.
It should be noted that it is already an offence to wear certain clothing, or to carry, wear or display certain articles in public places. The behaviour of those who disseminate terrorist publications intending to encourage terrorism, or being reckless as to whether the behaviour encourages it, is already criminalised by section 2 of the Terrorism Act 2006 and will attract a 15-year maximum sentence under the provisions of the Bill.
The clause would criminalise those who might be highlighting their support for a proscribed organisation, which is akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It overcomplicates the response and risks targeting innocent individuals in the attempt to target people who would look to do us harm. In a briefing, which I am sure the hon. Member for North Dorset fully endorses, Liberty—his favourite campaigning group—[Interruption.] I was talking about Liberty.
Gavin Newlands
In that briefing, Liberty makes a fair point, when it says that
“further criminalisation of photographs of a costume only exacerbates the risk that law enforcement officials attempting to interpret the meaning of a photograph will mistake reference for endorsement, irony for sincerity, and childish misdirection for genuine threat.”
Simon Hoare
I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that I do not think my response to the oral evidence—if one can grace it with that word—provided by Liberty was unique to me.
Gavin Newlands
That may well be the case, but having served on previous Bill Committees with the hon. Gentleman, I am well aware of his high opinion of that organisation.
It must be noted that the clause risks putting additional strain on resources. It may lead to the investigation of innocent individuals when it would be more effective to target those about whom we should be worried. The new offence does not require an individual to be a member of a proscribed organisation or to have ever offered support to it. The only requirement is that the circumstances around publication arouse reasonable suspicion that a person is a member of or supports a proscribed organisation.
During the evidence session on Tuesday, we heard a number of everyday examples where someone could be in breach of clause 2. As we have heard, that could include someone dressing up in fancy dress for Halloween, a tourist having a picture with a Hezbollah flag, the display of a historical flag, or a journalist or academic researching a particular field of study. Greater clarity and safeguards are required to protect innocent parties from being in breach of this new offence.
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. I will raise a separate imagery issue, particularly on flags, that I hope the Minister will address.
I am well aware that several organisations use slight variants of logos, wording and other insignia on flags and other material. I also know that that has been an issue on what most of us would look at and consider to be an ISIS flag in support of that organisation, but on which clever alterations have been made by individuals trying to evade prosecution for displaying that item. For imagery displayed on the internet or elsewhere, it may be that individuals will seek to avoid prosecution under the clause or other ways by making slight alterations to that imagery. Will the Minister explain his definition of “reasonable suspicion” that those individuals support such an organisation?
Mr Wallace
Clause 2 makes it an offence to publish an image of an item of clothing or other article associated with a proscribed organisation in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that that person is a member or supporter of that organisation. As the hon. Member for Torfaen explained, the amendment would add a reasonable excuse defence to the new subsection (3)(1A) offence. The hon. Gentleman indicated that his intention is to ensure that the offence does not bite on those who may have a legitimate reason to publish such images, such as journalists or academics.
I am happy to assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government share that intention, and that that outcome is in fact already secured by the current drafting of clause 2. The words “in such a way” will hopefully answer both the fears of the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North about his T-shirt and the general issue of having not only to display such an image but to do so
“in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that the person is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.”
It is important to recognise that the mere publication of an image associated with a proscribed organisation is not enough on its own to constitute an offence. The offence will only be made out if the image is published in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that the individual is a member or supporter of the proscribed organisation. In cases of a journalist featuring an image of a flag in a news report or an academic publishing such an image in a book or research paper, it would be clear from the circumstances that they are not themselves a member or supporter of the organisation. This approach provides certainty to such individuals that they will not be caught by the offence. It also offers the advantage that the same formulation has been in force since 2000 with the existing section 13 offence in the 2000 Act of wearing or displaying such an article in a public place, and is therefore well understood by the courts.
For that reason, although I totally agree with the objectives behind the amendment, it is not necessary to add “reasonable excuse”. I therefore ask the hon. Member for Torfaen to withdraw the amendment.
On the point raised by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, the existing offence of displaying a flag talks about doing so “in such a way” that inspires people. If there is evidence that someone is doing it in such a way as to commit that offence, they will be prosecuted.
As to the T-shirt, I will give the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North an alternative. If I bought one with a statement on it such as “Scotland Forever”—the sentiment is shared by the vast majority of decent Scottish people and not just a few lunatics in the Scottish National Liberation Army or whatever they are called—I doubt that that would be as clearly synonymous with any terrorist organisation as a National Action one. Clearly, if someone had bought a National Action T-shirt—and they could fit into it, which would probably be a challenge for some of its supporters—and it then became proscribed, of course they should remove it, because I do not want people walking around with terrorist T-shirts once an organisation has been proscribed. However, I do not think that “Scotland Forever” would fall into the category of a symbol of a terrorist organisation. I hope that gives him some comfort that we will not arrest people who think that Scotland is forever.
Nic Dakin
The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North pointed to Mr Hill’s evidence. He talked about the vulnerability in clause 2 and said:
“I understand where the Government are trying to get to, but some tighter definition might be of use.”––[Official Report, Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Public Bill Committee, 26 June 2018; c. 41, Q88.]
Has the Minister reflected on that? Can he deal with the point that Mr Hill, with all his experience, raised?
Mr Wallace
Yes, I can. The way I reflected on that was to seek to find out what happened with the existing offence, which has the same wording of “in such a way”, and how many failed prosecutions of people who are journalists or academics there had been under it. My understanding is that there have been no cases of prosecuting people who use the fair reason that they are a journalist or are researching something. The fact that it has been on the statute book for a long time already, and that it has not produced the failures that some people feared, suggests that the law has already accepted that wording in such offences. I do not fear that there will be a surge in wrong or failed prosecutions.
Stephen Doughty
I am sorry to press the Minister, but I would like clarification on variants. Material that glorifies the activities of the IRA, for example, has been published by organisations and is available on the internet. Individuals are removing the “I” from IRA and putting an asterisk or something like that into the imagery, but the rest clearly glorifies the activities of a proscribed organisation. In his view, would that be caught be the legislation? Would someone photo-editing an ISIS flag and leaving everything else such as guns in the picture—they are glorifying terrorist activities but making a slight alteration—be caught in the legislation?
Mr Wallace
Yes, because the key is “in such a way”. Someone does not have to fly a swastika. The hon. Gentleman may have seen that some of the far right used to fly a red flag with a white circle but no swastika in it. Someone on an al-Quds parade might think that they can alter the Hezbollah flag and somehow pretend it is not to do with the military side, but that will not save them if they are using it in such a way as to commit that offence. Someone does not have to use the full wording, but we, the prosecuting authorities, have to prove that they are doing it in such a way as to incite or commit that offence. I warn those clever terrorists out there who think they can get away with it by swapping a few letters around that that will not make a difference.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
I am grateful for the Minister’s response and the additional reassurance he has given about “in such a way” or “in such circumstances”. On this occasion, he is right to say that the Bill uses the same wording as the Terrorism Act 2000, which has a solid body of interpretation from the courts behind it. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Paul Maynard.)
Select Committee on Justice
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Select Committee statement
Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)
We begin with the Select Committee statement. I remind Members to turn all electronic devices to silent. For the benefit of Mr Seely, Members may now remove their jackets.
Robert Neill will speak on the publication of the ninth report of the Justice Committee, “Transforming Rehabilitation”, for up to 10 minutes; during his speech, no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of his statement, I will call Members to put questions on the subject of the statement, and call Robert Neill to respond to them in turn. Members can expect to be called only once. Interventions should be questions and should be brief.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. In a different context, in weather like this many of us might have been told that we could remove our wigs, rather than our jackets. We do not have to do that today.
It is a pleasure and an honour to present this Justice Committee report on transforming rehabilitation. It is the result of an eight-month inquiry, during which we took significant amounts of written and oral evidence from providers and users from across the probation sector on the programme initiated by the then Government in 2014-15.
The programme was a major structural reform of the probation service, of the way probation activities are delivered, and of what probation activity comprises. It had high ambitions. Its key objectives were to reduce reoffending; to open up the market in probation services, particularly to bring in more voluntary sector providers; and to do so in a way that achieved efficiency and value for money for the taxpayer. I regret to say that the result of our investigation is that we conclude that it has failed on every single one of those measures.
Let me start by explaining why. First, reoffending rates remain stubbornly high. They are still historically high, and they do not bear comparison with those of our neighbours in western Europe and other equivalent advanced democracies. They have not been improved by the reforms. Indeed, in some areas, it is clear that sentencers’ confidence in non-custodial alternatives to imprisonment has declined, rather than improved. The objective was to have a robust system of alternatives to custody. I regret to say that we conclude that that has not been achieved.
Secondly, our evidence shows that the involvement of voluntary and third-sector organisations has declined, rather than increased. There are isolated instances of good practice, but they are precisely that: isolated, patchy and frequently outweighed by the areas where the service is not delivering to the standard required.
Thirdly, the programme has not driven efficiency. Contracts were let to community rehabilitation companies on a seriously flawed financial basis. As a result, more public money, to the tune of several million pounds, has had to be pumped into those companies to keep the show on the road. That is not sustainable.
Let me set out the report’s findings in a little more detail. The contracts are important, because the purpose of the process was to split probation provision between the National Probation Service, which is still in the public sector, and the community rehabilitation companies, which are generally owned by a consortium of large outsourcing companies, the names of which we in the public sector are familiar with, with the involvement of some voluntary-sector groups—regrettably few, given what the intentions were.
The split was supposed to be based on risk: the higher-risk offenders would be supervised by the National Probation Service, and those of a lower risk would be supervised by the community rehabilitation companies. We conclude that that had two disadvantages. First, it disrupted the considerable networks that agencies had built up at a local level. Secondly, the community rehabilitation companies were often not geared up in time to take on the new responsibilities. We conclude that the introduction of the system was, frankly, rushed. There was no attempt to pilot it or do proper assessments before it was brought in. It is also clear from our evidence that risk is a crude and ineffective measure for dividing responsibilities, because an offender’s risk profile—the level of risk they pose to the public, their risk of reoffending and so on—changes over the course of their journey. That is not reflected in the way the division is currently cast.
The other very serious issue that concerns us about the contracts is this. It is clear from the evidence that the bids by the public-private sector consortiums were wildly optimistic in their financial assumptions, which were based on an assessment that the fixed cost of running the service would be about 20%. In reality, it is 60% to 70%. They could not have been further out. That meant that they were not financially sustainable, and the Government faced the prospect either of the contracts failing or of having to pump in more money. That is not a way to run a system efficiently or effectively.
We believe that there has to be more transparency about the contracts, and that the Ministry has to look again at its capacity to deal with such matters. It is clear that the robustness of the financial model was not challenged sufficiently at the beginning. That cannot be allowed to happen again.
We are not satisfied that the monitoring of the performance has achieved what was desired. A great deal of the system depends on payment by results, but we found that in practice, that does not work as an incentive to reduce reoffending. Again, it is a crude measure, not least because some of the factors that drive rehabilitation and the risk of reoffending are outside the control of the probation providers, so it is not a well set-up system of reward. We believe that the Ministry of Justice should review that mechanism, just as it must look at the split. There have been attempts to resolve the issue, but there are basic problems with data sharing, co-ordination and so on. They must be dealt with.
We must ensure that future contracts have specific targets and incentives to involve the voluntary sector properly, as was intended. The contract structure favours the big boys, because they have the resource to put in complicated framework bids, whereas smaller-scale operations frequently get squeezed out. That is the reverse of what was intended, and we believe that that needs to be changed.
Staffing morale was found to be at an all-time low in the National Probation Service and in CRCs. Staff have higher case loads than anticipated, and often feel that, because of the artificial nature of the split, they are dealing with cases for which they do not have adequate training. We think there is a need for the Ministry to publish a probation workforce strategy covering both the NPS and the CRCs.
We need to deal with the operation of the through-the-gate system—the attempt to provide people with support on release—which we find to be wholly inadequate. In the past, people got a £46 discharge grant and nothing else. Now, they appear to get a £46 discharge grant and a leaflet. The follow-up supervision is woefully inadequate. In some cases, it is a telephone call once every six weeks. That is no way to turn lives around properly. It does a disservice not only to the offender but to the public, because it increases the risk.
We also need to look at the use of custody in shorter sentences. The intention was to give sentencers confidence that they could punish by way of community orders of one kind or another. There is nothing wrong with having a punitive element in them, but they must also have rehabilitative elements. Unfortunately, because sentencers —magistrates and judges—do not have confidence that the requirements of the order will be properly monitored or delivered, their use has declined, rather than increased. Instead, more shorter custodial sentences are being imposed, despite the fact that all the evidence shows that short custodial sentences have the worst outcomes in terms of stopping reoffending, so it becomes a revolving door. We believe that there should be a presumption against short custodial sentences, but for that to happen, the Government must put in place a robust alternative.
There are a number of other issues, which I will happily touch on if asked to by hon. Members, but I hope that I have given an overview of a serious report, which was agreed by the Select Committee unanimously, cross-party, on the basis of compelling evidence. All the Ministers in the team are new to their post. They are having to pick up the pieces of something that was misjudged, but there is a chance to put it right. It is a question of properly reforming the system so that it works properly, which would be to our economic advantage, because the cost to our economy of reoffending is £15 billion or more, but it would also benefit society, because less reoffending means fewer victims, and that is in everyone’s interests.
David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
Given the comments of the Minister of State to the Justice Committee earlier this week, will my hon. Friend—that is what he is in this context—confirm very strongly the Committee’s recommendation at paragraph 46 on page 21 of the report? It states:
“The Ministry should undertake a public consultation on any further changes to ensure a wide range of views on contractual arrangements. This public consultation should consider the number of CRCs and the bodies eligible to bid for CRC contracts.”
Given the potential changes that that Minister announced on Tuesday, can the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. and learned Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer), take back our strong cross-party view that that should be consulted on?
Robert Neill
I very much agree. I hope—indeed, I am sure—that my hon. and learned Friend the Minister will take that view back to her ministerial colleagues. It is very clear that the situation was not acceptable. Putting more and more sticking-plaster money into the system is not a sustainable way forward. I am glad to say that on an earlier occasion when the Minister of State gave evidence to us, he said, as hon. Members will recall, that removing or terminating contracts, if they were failing, was absolutely an option on the table, and so it should be, because the whole point of contracting out is that if there are failures, we can take the contract away, but for that to be done, there has to be a willingness both to do it and to put something workable in its place. The right hon. Member for Delyn (David Hanson), whose work I very much appreciate, makes a most important point.
Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that although this report is undoubtedly critical of the system, the evidence that we received says that the system could be put right with work, and is not in fact broken?
Robert Neill
Yes, I think that is right; I do want to be constructive. Whether or not we would have started from here is an interesting question for debate, but we are here. Turning round systems such as this is a bit like turning round an ocean liner: it takes a long time. A U-turn is not practical, it seems to us, in these circumstances. That is why we say that an urgent review by the Ministry is necessary right across the piece to start identifying the areas of failure and start working on them immediately. I hope that our report helps to set out for the Ministry where that work needs to be done.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
I thank the Select Committee for the report, and for fully endorsing the Scottish Government policy of a presumption against short sentences of 12 months or less. Recidivism rates are at a near-20-year low in Scotland, following the introduction of the prohibition. Does the Chair of the Committee expect to see a similar reduction in reoffending in England and Wales, or are there other, underlying issues that need to be addressed first?
Robert Neill
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for those comments. I am not sure how far the roll-out has gone so far, but we certainly believe that the move in Scotland is in the right direction, and that is evidenced by the situation in many other jurisdictions, where there has been the same effect. I would not want to be held to specific numbers, but I think that the direction of travel to which the hon. Gentleman refers would be absolutely right. I do not think that there are basic, underlying causes that make the English more intrinsically criminal than the Scots, or more prone to reoffending than the Scots, the Germans, the Dutch or our other neighbours—it is tempting fate to say that to the hon. Gentleman, but with a middle name of MacGillivray, perhaps I can say it. I do not think that is the case, so I think we should pursue this proposal. The key bit, I think, is systemic failures, rather than underlying social causes.
Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab)
I very much welcome the report, and particularly the recommendations in paragraphs 100, 102 and 106, which relate to the voluntary sector. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there needs to be much greater voluntary sector involvement in the rehabilitation of offenders, because those organisations are best placed to reach offenders and address issues relating to their offending, and that CRCs must do more to increase the employment and engagement of the voluntary sector in this sphere?
Robert Neill
The hon. Gentleman, whose work on the Select Committee is much appreciated, is absolutely right. There are examples of good work being done in the system. In the north-east in particular, there are some areas where the voluntary sector has worked well, taking a leading role within CRCs, but they are the exception to the rule. That is why we think that the new system must have specific targets for the voluntary sector, and means of getting it into the system. I know from my experience over the years that the voluntary sector is much more flexible. It is much more able to calibrate to the local social, economic, job-market and housing-market needs, which are all-important in rehabilitation, and is able to build up links at local level with the relevant agencies, in a way that so far has tended to be lacking in the very large and sometimes remote organisations. The hon. Gentleman is totally right.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
I thank the Select Committee and its Chair for an excellent report, which I have read from cover to cover. I particularly agree with what the Chair said about the operation of the through-the-gate system. Was he as surprised as I was by the evidence given to his Committee by the Minister of State, who said that we had all got our expectations of through the gate wrong, and that it was simply meant to be a signposting service? Does he agree that the Ministry of Justice should properly assess, evaluate and embed good, systematic through-the-gate practice that supports offenders—before, at the point of, and after release from custody?
Robert Neill
That is absolutely right. My recollection is that that was not the way through the gate was sold at the time it was brought in. I think there is a little bit of rewriting of history there, to be blunt. The truth is that for a long time we have been appallingly bad at follow-up supervision of people who are released. Through the gate actually extended it to those serving sentences of one year or less, which indicates that the Government thought that it was a good thing, but that has not been delivered in practice. We do need a wholesale review of it.
For example, if the CRC becomes involved with an offender only about 12 weeks before their release, that is wholly inadequate, in terms of setting that person up with the support that they need when they come out. We suggest that during that time, there be work to ensure that bank accounts are set up, and that people can register for universal credit, so that they get it on the day they leave custody, rather than coming out with their £46 and not necessarily having a roof over their head. The temptation for them then is to go straight to meet their mates at the pub or the café; they spend their £46; and then they are back into exactly the same sort of offending—often to drive drug, alcohol or other habits—that got them into prison in the first place. The leaflet in their pocket, which is supposed to do the signposting, is not much use to them in those circumstances.
Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)
I of course congratulate the Chair of the Justice Committee and all its members on the great job that they have done, as always, with their report. Current contracts with the private CRCs were due to expire in 2022. It was very interesting that the Prisons Minister recently said that terminating the contracts because of underperformance was “100% absolutely an option”. Can the Chair of the Committee shed any further light on whether the Government would have to pay any compensation to the CRCs if contracts were terminated early because of underperformance?
Robert Neill
One problem that we have, to which we refer in the report, is the lack of transparency around the contractual terms. One would expect, if there were a complete failure of performance, that there ought not to be significant payments, as with any contract, but we do refer to the tendency—it is not unique to the Ministry of Justice; it is across Government—for the excuse of commercial confidentiality to be used almost as a blanket bar to examining terms. That is why we recommend in the report that there be much more transparency around the letting or re-letting of contracts. We should certainly have more transparency about the matrix on which they are based, the financial model, the performance criteria that are built into them and the means of performance measuring of the CRCs themselves. We do not have adequate information on any of that, and I think the public are entitled to it.
Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)
I thank the Chairman of the Justice Committee for his excellent statement. We now move to the main business.
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Transforming Rehabilitation
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BACKBENCH BUSINESS
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Russian Federation Activity
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Russian Federation activity in the UK and globally.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. This is an important issue for me and I hope that others will see it as important, too. I am thankful to those who are taking part in this debate.
One of the most significant challenges that we face in this era is the Kremlin’s political conflict against the west. It is one of our most complex problems. Western states arguably face a new kind of conflict, in which all the tools of the state, non-military as much as military, are combined in a dynamic, efficient and integrated way to achieve political effect. I have called this brief debate to seek updates from the Government on a series of issues. If the Minister will allow me, I will outline 10 ideas concisely, which I hope the Government will take on board. That does not mean that I am not supportive of Government policy at the moment. We have some down time after the immediacy of the Skripal poisoning to think more comprehensively about our relationship with the Russian Federation and its Government.
It is important to note that this is not about being anti-Russian, despite some of the nonsense that comes out of the Russian embassy and Russia Today. The friendliness of Russians to the English during the World cup, shows that the Kremlin’s hostility to the UK is not shared more widely, regardless of whether we think President Putin is a popular leader or not. The World cup, however, is proving to be a PR godsend to his regime, because elsewhere it is business as usual for the Kremlin. The same day that England beat Panama 6-1, which everyone was very happy about, Russian jets were in operation in southern Syria, allegedly hitting civilian targets, the war in eastern Ukraine continued and dirty money continued to flow through and to London.
Critically, Russia’s slide towards an authoritarian stance is part of a trend taking place around the globe—the rise of authoritarian states, which use open societies to protect and promote their interests, as well as to damage those open societies. China, Russia and Iran, as well as non-state actors such as Hezbollah, all use a complex mix of tactics.
One of the problems for western states is that we have not had a definition of this hybrid or full-spectrum war. A month ago I presented what I think may have been the first comprehensive, peer-reviewed definition in the western world. I argued that contemporary Russian conflict was sophisticated and integrated. At its heart is the old KGB active measures conflict, as it was called, a form of political warfare, around which has been wrapped the full spectrum of state power. I argued that there are at least 50 tools within this full spectrum of warfare, which can be divided up in six broad elements with command and control at its heart. This Matryoshka doll of conflict is one of the forms of conflict that we in the west will have to get used to, because it will be used. It is important to understand that Russia is probably the most sophisticated user of those tactics, but not the only one.
Russia’s aims towards the west are perhaps more difficult to fathom. Contemporary Russian conflict appears to seek to divide and demoralise us—especially those states that border Russia—to damage the cohesion of NATO and the European Union, and potentially to break down the bonds that bind western alliances within the European Union.
Russia’s allies are doing rather well at the moment. The Freedom party in Austria and the Northern League in Italy are both in power. For me, the most important point is that it is about reorienting Russian society away from a liberal model of development—albeit a corrupt, chaotic and unsuccessful one in the 1990s—to a much more authoritarian model. We are the enemy, not only because we represent an alternative to that but because the Kremlin security establishment needs an enemy to help it to exert control over the Russian people. We see that in the daily diet of propaganda on Russian state television.
I strongly support the Government’s actions in recent months, but now that the immediacy of the Skripal case has passed, I would like to propose a series of measures, which I would be grateful if the Government would at least consider and maybe discuss with me at a time of their own convenience. First, I believe that we need to methodically expose what Russians and others are doing. In the 1970s and 1980s the United States established what it called an inter-agency active measures group, which investigated and publicised what was then known as active measures—the KGB form of subversion. As I said, that included tools such as disinformation, propaganda, assassination, support for terrorist groups, smears and espionage, running agents of influence, etc. I believe that we need to set up something similar, some kind of permanent structure to look at subversive operations against the west, the UK and our allies.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
I am sure the hon. Gentleman will come on to this point. Does he agree that the Electoral Commission, in responding to measures aimed at subverting democratic processes in this country, is entirely unfit for purpose, that it is an analogue regulator in a digital age, and that, in fact, we should be integrating its functions into the National Crime Agency and giving it real forensic investigatory ability, to ensure that attempts to subvert our democracy are dealt with effectively and properly?
Mr Seely
I think the hon. Gentleman is more of an expert than I am on that. I absolutely think that the strength of our electoral systems and their vulnerability is one of the critical issues. I think it is number 8 on my list, so I will come to it shortly. I am grateful for his suggestion, which goes further than what I would propose.
To wind up the first point, occasional Government statements are good, as are some excellent Select Committee reports, but I believe we need something more permanent —not something that points fingers at the Russians but something that seeks to methodically understand the way subversive operations operate in the western world. We face a new kind of political conflict from hackers, trolls, assassins, politically connected business executives and market manipulators, spin doctors, paid-for protestors and criminals, who are often more usable and useful than conventional tools of conflict. On that point about market manipulators, given the Bloomberg investigation earlier this week, which showed that hedge funds had been buying private polling data that effectively allowed them to front-run the Brexit vote, is it not time to initiate a parliamentary inquiry into the behaviour of those involved, especially considering statements made by some party political leaders at the time of the result, which appeared to concede defeat, despite possibly being told by their favoured pollsters that the Leave campaign would likely win? I choose my words carefully, but I think there is a prima facie case here, which is concerning.
Secondly, I believe we should introduce a list, as they have in the United States, of PR and other agents of Russian influence in the UK. Russians will have influence in this country that is clear and above board, but people who work for President Putin, one of the oligarchs, a proxy front or a third group linked to them need to be open about it and we need to have some kind of register. Perhaps that will be a voluntary thing for PR companies to do; it may be something for the Select Committees to do; but it may equally be something for Government to look at. We also need to ensure that the House of Lords has the same anti-sleaze standards as the House of Commons. It does not at the moment, and I think we can expect more scandals.
We do have a problem with Russian influence here, on both the hard right and the hard left. I have written about Seamus Milne’s mirroring of Russian lines in 2014 and 2015, when he was working for The Guardian. I wrote about it in The Sunday Times in the spring. He is clearly one of a number of people with uncomfortably close links to the Kremlin around the Labour leadership. I believe that that does not serve democracy well.
Thirdly, we should introduce laws to ensure a health warning on broadcasters and other media that are paid-for propagandists for authoritarian states. A counter-propaganda Bill is going through Congress to do just that. Just as we have a public health warning on a packet of cigarettes, we can have some kind of public health warning on a TV channel that is a propagandistic outfit for an authoritarian state, which does not have an independent editorial line. If we shut down Russia Today or RT—or whatever it is calling itself this week—in our country, we can expect the Russians to shut down the BBC in their country and they would probably quite like an opportunity to do so. I am not suggesting that we do that. I am suggesting that TV stations that do not have an independent editorial line should be forced to advertise that fact in some way. The Countering Foreign Propaganda Bill, which is going through Congress at the moment, is potentially a model.
Fourthly, we should properly fund the BBC World Service radio and TV, and boost the Russian service more than is currently being done. We are in a battle with authoritarian states globally to promote free speech and open societies. I do not think this is a battle we should aim to lose; it is an important one to win. For me —this is a wider point—the Department for International Development should be paying all £400 million for that, as part of a fundamental rethink of what global Britain means and how we spend that 0.7%, because I do not believe that we get value for money for it at the moment.
Fifthly, we should change our visa regime to make it easier for ordinary Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians and people from that part of the world to come here, and more difficult for oligarchs, rather than the other way around. At the moment, our visa regime with too many countries rewards kleptocrats at the expense of ordinary people. I congratulate the Government, potentially, on a recent oligarch visa decision.
Sixthly, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office needs to be more active in seeing Russian influence in the round. I am sure the Minister would say that it does, but more vocality, if that is the right word—being more vocal—on Nord Stream 2 would not go amiss. I am aware of recent statements by the German leadership about oil concerns for Ukraine, but we know how the Kremlin tends to get around such promises. We also need to ensure that the Kremlin’s appalling war crimes in Syria, which are genuine, significant, serious and consistent, are recorded for history. We should work with others, if need be, to shout about it and use open-source information to highlight it.
We should also take much more interest in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee in 2016, in relation to the manipulation of the US presidential elections, which may be one of the most serious and significant cases of Kremlin and Russian espionage that we will ever witness in our lifetime. An important part of that process took place in London and probably involved Mr Julian Assange as the recipient and online publisher of the material stolen from the DNC. It is bizarre that we have not heard more from the Mueller inquiry in relation to London, because so many links seem to go through it.
I ask the Minister, and I choose my words carefully, what the current Ecuadorian Government are doing to encourage Mr Assange’s exit and an end to this process. What representations have the Government had from Jennifer Robinson or other members of his Australian, UK-Australian and UK legal team? Two Australian consular officials recently visited Mr Assange, and I am curious as to why.
What passport does Mr Assange hold? I was told that it was an Ecuadorian diplomatic one, but it may not be. I ask that because the Soviets sprang George Blake from Wormwood Scrubs in 1966 and I am aware that under the previous Ecuadorian Government, the Ecuadorian secret service looked at a series of possibilities to get Mr Assange out, including a rooftop escape by helicopter, getting lost in the crowds in Harrods—I did not know it was that popular—being smuggled out in the ambassador’s car and being made the Ecuadorian ambassador to the United Nations. I stress that there has been a change of Government in Ecuador, and I suspect those plans are no longer in the state they were before, but I would be grateful for the assurance that the Government are aware of the risks, especially in propaganda terms.
There are several potential suspects. A courier—a cut-out—was likely used to take the DNC-hacked material from the GRU, Russian military intelligence, and the Guccifer 2.0 account from Moscow to Mr Assange in London, possibly via a diplomatic pouch or a third country. Two weeks ago, James Clapper, a former director of US national intelligence, said that a suspect had been identified last year, so this is a live issue that very much relates to Russian activity in the United Kingdom and the United States.
Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)
Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, who is making a most interesting and powerful speech, but I want to ensure that we are not straying into anything that is sub judice.
Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair)
The hon. Gentleman has assured me, so that is fine.
Mr Seely
Thank you, Mr Bone. I am well aware of the point.
The suspects in this case range from the improbable to the possible. There are many Australians on the visitor logs to the embassy, which I have seen, but there is no evidence, and little reason, for those people to have been involved in handling stolen material. There have been allegations that UK politicians may have been conduits, but it should be clearly stated that again, there is no hard evidence. The Guardian has indicated several people, including a courier who has worked for Mr Assange in the past. A German gentleman who fits his description visited the embassy in late September, on the same day as the date stamp on the second DNC dump, which included the Podesta emails.
The FSB might have continued to use journalists. The first dump of DNC emails ended on 25 May, and in early June, an RT journalist, Nikolay Bogachikhin, visited the Embassy twice—a four-minute social visit, which is pretty taciturn even by Russian standards, and a slightly longer 22-minute visit on 8 June. If those were social visits, they were pretty brief. One cannot say much in four minutes, but there are probably other things one can do in that time.
Up to 80 people could be suspects, so I would be grateful if the Government could shed any light on who they believe is the culprit and whether they will encourage the US to name a suspect. I ask because the guilty parties were probably acting on behalf of the Kremlin to bring stolen material from the United States into Britain to influence the US presidential elections, which is incredibly serious.
To return to the main theme of my speech, my seventh point is that we should give Ofcom greater powers. The Latvian Government regularly complain about the content of Russian broadcasters from London who spew out propaganda in their country. Ofcom’s investigations take up to a year, while RT and Sputnik churn out a regular diet of anti-western nonsense. I do not believe that we should ban RT or Sputnik, as I have told the Minister, but we need to strengthen Ofcom’s powers, including fines and rights of reply, and ensure that it investigates broadcasters of knowingly fake or propagandistic news more quickly.
Eighthly, we should use our financial and legal powers to hurt people around the Kremlin regime. Transparency International has identified £4.4 billion-worth of properties in the UK that were bought with suspicious wealth, a fifth of which was Russian. I am curious to know whether any unexplained wealth orders have been used against people from eastern Europe.
Ninthly, we need to look at conventional deterrence as well, and I am sure we will do that at the coming NATO summit, which is causing a certain amount of consternation in political and military circles in Europe because of Mr Trump’s, shall we say, erratic tweets. Russia’s political and financial dealings with the west are part of a multi-faceted strategy that runs from information warfare to military dominance of its neighbours, including dominance in tactical nuclear weapons and conventional missiles. It is part of a holistic strategy that includes military and non-military elements.
Finally, to repeat the point that the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) made, we need to understand the threat of bots and fake news to our democracy and our electoral system. We have seen how divisive disputed elections are, and one only has to look to Capitol Hill to see that Democrats want to talk about the 2016 US presidential election but Republicans definitely do not. In much the same way, Brexiteers refuse to discuss the referendum here. I voted for Brexit, and I have seen no serious and significant evidence that the referendum here was manipulated, but the time to talk about it is now—as soon as possible. Does the Minister realise how disastrous it would be for our country to have disputed elections and referendums in the same way as the United States? The German secret service recently accused the Russians of being heavily engaged online in the Catalonian referendum and in other elections in the European Union. We have already discussed the United States. Does he realise the urgency of this issue? We should do this now, not in two years’ time.
To sum up, we need to spend more money on hard power, but we also need to get the balance between hard and soft power right. We need to fundamentally re-examine what global Britain means and how we can maximise our influence in the world to defend the existing order and gently but resolutely deter countries that wish to undermine it, such as the Russian Federation under its current leadership and other states. Russian conflict strategies are an example of how political and other forms of war and conflict are changing. I am ready and willing to help and support the Government in that challenge, and I hope that they are willing to listen to me and other hon. Members on both sides of the House who wish to contribute to that debate.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. It is also a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely), who made an excellent and powerful speech.
I remember my first flight to St Petersburg in May 2005 as clearly as if it were yesterday. I was on my way to take up my post as director of the British Council’s operations there, and I felt a palpable sense of hope combined with a healthy dose of trepidation. I was looking forward to improving my Russian and getting settled into my new life in St Pete before formally starting the job in September, but I was also wondering what the coming years held in store for me, given the parlous state of the bilateral relationship.
Equally memorable, but for very different reasons, was my flight out of Russia in January 2008. The British Council had become a pawn in the stand-off that followed the assassination of Alexander Litvinenko by two state-sponsored hitmen on the streets of London, and we had been forced to close our St Petersburg office. In spite of the aggression and unpleasantness that came to dominate the relationship between the British Council and the Russian authorities, Russia will always hold a special place in my heart. It is a fascinating country of contradictions, extremes, suffering and joy, and I will never forget my time there. A wise person once said: “You can leave Russia, but it will never leave you,” and I can certainly confirm the truth of that statement.
Being in the eye of that diplomatic storm for a couple of years enabled me to see at first hand the extent to which politics is underpinned by emotion, instinct, psychology and history. Russia is a proud nation, and its people are deeply attached to the concept of uvazhaniye, or respect. The national psyche is rooted in a sense that no Russian should ever be treated as second-rate, and anchored by the suspicion that Mother Russia is constantly being disrespected and destabilised by malevolent external forces.
The identity, instincts and mindset of the Russian people are shaped by geography. Inhabitants of a vast landmass, a country with borders so long that they are impossible to defend, the Russians have always suffered from encirclement anxiety. Their world view is shaped by the conviction that those who seek to exploit and undermine nasha rodina—the motherland—are constantly hovering on her doorstep, and their default position is therefore to strike first, to subjugate their neighbours and from this platform to build a sphere of influence.
From the empire-building of Peter the Great, to the establishment of the Soviet Union and its extension to the eastern bloc countries, the Russians’ constant and furious opposition to the expansion of NATO and Putin’s adventurism in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria, the narrative of encirclement provides the backdrop to every chapter of Russia’s turbulent history and actuality. That potent combination of pride and paranoia lies at the heart of every big political decision that has ever been made in Russia. It is the iron thread that connects the Tsars to Stalin and Putin.
Understanding the historical, cultural and geopolitical forces that shape Russian behaviour is by no means the same as excusing it. The Russian Government have literally been allowed to get away with murder for far too long. There are 10,000 dead in Ukraine, and 10 times that number in Syria. Alexander Litvinenko was brutally murdered by the Russian state, and at least a dozen more adversaries of Mr Putin died in suspicious circumstances on the streets of London. Anna Politkovskaya and Boris Nemtsov were assassinated in Moscow, a stone’s throw from the Kremlin. Now we have Sergei Skripal, his daughter and a British police officer struck down by a nerve agent on the streets of a quiet town in Wiltshire.
The Skripal attacks provoked a great deal of speculation about why the Kremlin would choose to carry out such a high-profile hit just a few short months before the World cup. In my view, the explanation is a simple one, encapsulated in two simple words: greed and self-preservation. The Putin regime has no guiding ideology. It exists to protect and further the financial interests of a narrow elite and to preserve its grip on power. It is a kleptocracy, turbocharged by hydrocarbons.
When oil is selling at more than $100 a barrel, there are rich pickings, and the nexus of government officials and mafia bosses who run modern Russia are able to live and co-exist in relative peace and harmony. A few years ago, the price dropped to near $40 a barrel, and although it has risen recently, it is still struggling to reach $70. The pie has shrunk, which has constrained the Kremlin’s ability to incentivise and buy loyalty. What does a Russian President do if they are no longer able to offer the carrot to their henchmen and cronies? They must deploy the stick. They must send the message, loud and clear, to all those who may know their secrets, and be thinking about betraying them, that retribution will be brutal, cruel and swift.
While assassination on the streets of Britain is Putin’s specific weapon of choice in securing the loyalty of the various clans and cabals that run Russia, he also knows that he must retain the broader support of the Russian people. He has done that through a series of cynical and ruthless foreign policy initiatives and military interventions. He knows that he needs to compensate for the abject failure of his Government to place the Russian economy on a sustainable growth footing, and he does so by seeking to unite his people against a range of common enemies. It is the oldest trick in the book. Thus the Russian threat to our security is not only through the Salisbury attack or the murder of Litvinenko. We see it in the invasion of Ukraine and the indiscriminate bombing of Syria. From 24 to 28 February, Russia conducted 20 bombing missions every day in eastern Ghouta. The month-long assault of eastern Ghouta alone is estimated to have killed more than 1,600 people, most of them thanks to Russian bombs. It has brought the death toll in Syria to more than half a million people. There are also 5 million refugees and more than 6 million displaced people.
As we have seen with the refugee crisis and the threat from Islamic State, the effects of Russian intervention have rippled directly on to our shores. President Putin deploys state-sponsored murder to retain the loyalty and discipline of his immediate entourage, and he uses military aggression to secure the broader support of the Russian people. Those strategies represent a grave threat to our national security and the security of our partners and allies. Both strategies must be tackled and defeated.
Russia’s geopolitical influence and substantial military clout stand in stark contrast to the small size and fragile state of its economy. In 2013, Russia’s economy was roughly the size of Italy’s and considerably smaller than Germany’s. Russia is grossly over-reliant on hydrocarbons, with approximately 70% of its GDP linked to the oil and gas industries. With the price of a barrel of oil plummeting, the value of the rouble tumbling, the demographic time bomb ticking, sanctions biting and poor economic policy decisions compounding those problems, the Russian economy is facing a perfect storm.
Against that backdrop, sanctions as a foreign policy tool are ultimately likely to have real effect. The sectoral sanctions imposed by the EU in the wake of the shooting down of flight MH17 by a Russian-made missile in July 2014 certainly led Russia to tread more carefully in its incursions into eastern Ukraine. There is some evidence to suggest that President Putin is not actively seeking to up the ante there.
The UK Government must now build on the success of those measures by committing to the following things. First, we must ensure that the Magnitsky amendment to the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018 is implemented effectively. The Magnitsky amendment was a vital change to the legislation because it strikes at the hypocritical heart of the Putin regime, and makes clear to those with hidden assets in the west that Putin cannot protect them. For it to be effective, however, the sanctions list must be as accurate as possible, and the Government must therefore set out how members of the public, Members of Parliament and peers can suggest additional names to be added to the sanctions list and the visa bans.
Secondly, we must continue to support asset freezes, visa bans and economic sanctions against Russia until such time as the terms of the Minsk ceasefire agreement, under the auspices of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, have been fully implemented. Minsk is far from ideal, but it represents the only hope for stability and peace.
Thirdly, we must continue to support sanctions that are specifically connected to the annexation of Crimea for as long as Crimea is occupied.
Fourthly, we must commit to supporting the training and equipping of Ukrainian forces in the event of any attempt by Russia to ramp up hostilities in Ukraine, for example through a new land grab.
Fifthly, we must press for full implementation of the EU-Ukraine deep and comprehensive free trade agreement. Russian concerns about the DCFTA are simply not credible. Ukraine is a sovereign country and is therefore free to sign international agreements as it sees fit.
Sixthly, we must argue forcefully for the completion of the EU energy union. The EU’s fragmented energy market and infrastructure cause several EU member states, including Germany, to be more reliant than is necessary on Russian oil and gas. That in turn gives Russia disproportionate influence in its dealings with the EU. By investing in interconnectors and integrating the energy trading market, the EU would fundamentally rebalance its relationship with Russia.
Seventhly, we must address the elephant in the room: the World cup. FIFA has handed Putin a propaganda coup, and in the wake of the Skripal poisoning, it was right for the Government to confirm that there would be no official UK representation at the Word cup. We must hold firm to that.
My abiding memory of my time in Russia was of a burgeoning sense of polarisation between society and state. I saw and heard the values, instincts and hopes of growing numbers of young, well-educated and internationally minded Russians contrasting sharply with an increasingly reactionary and authoritarian governing elite.
Support for Putin was, and still is, relatively strong and widespread, but it is brittle. He derives his legitimacy from the fact that people are prepared to trade the rule of law, pluralism, transparency and freedom of speech for the security, stability and economic growth that he offers. However, when Russian holiday jets are being blown up in response to military adventurism, and when recession and inflation become the dominant features of the Russian economy, many more Russians will start to draw the conclusion that their President is failing to keep his side of the bargain.
Change in Russia, however, will not come any time soon, as evidenced by the recent election. President Putin can still count on the support of the majority of Russian voters, with the only notable exception being the growing middle class in Moscow and St Petersburg. Clearly, the assiduously developed propaganda that is pumped out by the state media machine plays a major role in maintaining Putin’s approval ratings, but my time in Russia also taught me that the Russian people are still traumatised by what they perceive to have been the chaos and humiliation of the Yeltsin years. The stability that Putin brought following that turbulent period continues to underpin his popularity today.
It is essential that we respect the will of the Russian people. Vladimir Putin has been their leader of choice for more than 15 years, and he will continue as President until 2022. Let us therefore engage with Russia as it is, not how we would like it to be. Let us demonstrate through our words and deeds that we truly understand the history, culture, interests and foreign policy objectives of this vast nation with huge potential.
Let us also be absolutely clear, strong and resolute in the face of Russian aggression. That clarity, strength and resolution must start right here in this House. The Kremlin will constantly and consistently attempt to divide us, and we must not allow them to do so. That is why it is vital that my party makes it crystal clear that we support both the words and actions of the Government, the EU and our NATO allies in dealings with Russia.
This is not the moment for whataboutery. This is the time for a robust defence of our values, and clear recognition that if a bully is given an inch, he will take a mile. Let us therefore move forward together, across parties and communities, to forge an unbreakable and unanimous position on this issue of profound importance to our national interest. Let us send this message to Mr Putin, loud and clear: “The British people will no longer tolerate the brazen and reckless actions of your regime, and we will no longer tolerate the way in which you and your cronies use London as a laundromat for your ill-gotten gains.”
We will act rapidly and robustly to deliver the changes that are long overdue. We have the utmost respect for the history and culture of Russia, and we will never forget the tremendous sacrifices that the Russian people made when they stood shoulder to shoulder with us to defeat the Nazis. We also accept that Russia will possibly—perhaps probably—never be a liberal democracy, and we have absolutely no desire to impose our world view. Nobody in their right mind is talking about regime change, but we need to see radical behaviour change.
At the outset of my speech I mentioned the Russian word uvazhaniye, meaning respect, and underlined the importance that Russia rightly attaches to being respected by others. Respect, however, is a two-way street, and it has to be earned. If the current occupants of the Kremlin wish to earn our respect, they must radically change their mindset and behaviour, and they must do so now.
Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con)
It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship for the second time, Mr Bone, and to follow the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock). I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely) on securing today’s important debate, although my speech will be more about not letting our guard down than going through several points; I have no list.
As colleagues may be aware, this is an issue on which I have spoken several times since my election last year. Nevertheless, I continue to be concerned about Russia’s threatening activity. I grew up in the ’50s and ’60s, and I remember the practice sirens to warn us of impending nuclear attack. That was the most chilling time of anyone’s life, and none of us wants to go back there.
Russia’s activity undoubtedly affects our country, and we continue to see Russian military forces probing our boundaries. That aspect of Russian behaviour poses a real danger to the UK and our overstretched armed forces. Russian submarine activity has increased tenfold in the north Atlantic in recent years, and last year we had to respond to 33 of those incursions. That is a concern, but the threat from Russia goes far beyond that. It is growing and adapting and the threat has now taken on a more malign form. In this country, we know that all too well, given the devastating and seemingly effortless use of the nerve agent Novichok on the streets of Salisbury earlier this year. Although that was indeed a reckless action, we would be naive to think that that is all that Russia has planned, given our level of exposure to a potentially catastrophic cyber-attack, similar to NotPetya in Ukraine. That follows warnings from GCHQ and the FBI that Russia is currently targeting millions of computers in preparation for a major cyber-attack.
Moreover, some of the evidence that we took in the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee shows frightening use of bots and misinformation, which to my mind is aimed at driving wedges into the western alliance. We are not just dealing with traditional threats—those that come from land, sea and air. Hostile activity from Russia directed towards this country is becoming more common. It is also adapting and taking more aspersive forms: cyber-attacks. As I have said before, those are not the actions of a rational state with a stable leadership that wants to play by the rules. We should remember that when we consider our next steps.
When dealing with Russia we must try to look at the balance of power in Europe from a Russian point of view. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) recently pointed out, there has been a sort of Russian national paranoia for most of its existence—especially since 1917—and with some reason. The hon. Member for Aberavon touched on that. Consider the losses and upheaval suffered through two world wars, with 20 million dead in world war two alone.
The Russian people are kept in a state of constant existential threat by their leadership. I do not believe that we in the west deliberately create that threat. We must maintain a strong defence, but that is read in Russia as a threat because that is how the modern Russian leadership clings to power and, incidentally, to unbelievable wealth. By portraying the west as an evil coalition determined to bring Russia to its knees, Putin’s administration manages the outlook of the Russian people. They feel surrounded, and therefore do what history teaches us that states in that condition do: they cling to a perceived powerful leader. It is no accident that Putin is often shown in a heroic light—sometimes bare chested, riding a horse and carrying a gun. I am very glad that our leaders do not do the same, although I am glad that our Government are showing strength and sending the strongest possible message of condemnation to the Russian leadership. Their continued provocations must be met with an appropriate and sustained response.
That response, however, must come from the international community as a whole, as we are seeing similar activity from Russia around the world. To pick just a couple of examples, we have seen the use of hard power in Crimea and Syria recently, as we saw it in Georgia and Chechnya in the past. Although I have no doubt that we will see that again in the future, it is right that, in the face of such hostility and overwhelming historical precedent, we deploy a range of tools from the full breadth of our national security apparatus, to prevent it from happening again. It is appropriate that we continue to push for NATO to strengthen its deterrence and defence capabilities, while ensuring that dialogue with Russia continues, as part of the alliance’s commitment to avoiding misunderstanding and miscalculation.
We must also remember that the big scary bear to the east is not really that powerful at all, as was touched on earlier. Its economy is two thirds of ours; it is smaller than Italy’s. Its economy is also flatlining, showing no signs of growth. It does not stand a chance of competing seriously with us, Europe or America. So what does it do? It seeks to destabilise those around it, while concentrating the minds of its population on an existential threat. In the past, that meant massively investing in tanks, guns and aeroplanes, which they and we did, but they have discovered a new and much cheaper weapon of destabilisation, which could be equally devastating: the aforementioned cyber-attack. We have had several cyber-incursions of late. So far, we have dealt with them, but they are constant.
I have described Russia as not being so scary, but because it spends a significant amount of its GDP on defence, it has a very competent military—nothing close to the combined might of the west, but potentially devastating—and now the bear is wounded and cornered and therefore weak. Like any wild animal in such circumstances, it becomes incredibly dangerous. That is why we must maintain our alliances. We must maintain and enhance our defence spending. We need to secure our tier 1 military status as a matter of priority and maintain our position in NATO by increasing our own budget to 3% of GDP. We must also push for more NATO members to meet and exceed the target of investing 2% of their GDP on defence.
Overall, we must speak beyond the Russian leadership, who have a vested interest in maintaining the dangerous instability. We must speak directly to the Russian people, reassure them that we mean no harm and bring them into the fold of harmonious human co-existence. They might then rid themselves of their dangerous leadership and thus, as a peaceful neighbour, become a prosperous part of the European family.
We have no disagreement with the people of Russia, who have been responsible, as the Prime Minister said, for so many great achievements throughout their history—including the ongoing World Cup, which England will surely win. We must celebrate that which unites us, such as football, while being wary of that which divides us.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely) for securing time for this wide-ranging and topical debate. He also reminded us that the debate is not anti-Russian, and identified the need for a permanent structure against subversive measures. I agree with that and will return to it later.
I was pleased to listen to the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) with his direct knowledge of and insight into the Russian psyche and economy, and to the hon. Member for Clacton (Giles Watling), who raised cyber-attacks and incursions into the North sea, which are both issues that I will return to. I look forward to hearing the Front-Bench spokespeople in due course.
There can be almost nobody who disputes that the democratically elected Russian Government have some very draconian anti-gay and lesbian laws, have been implicated in the murders of a number of journalists and dissenters, and have form in ignoring international law and undermining state sovereignty; or that there are serious questions about Russian money laundering and dodgy cyber-activities promoting fake news and possibly influencing various electoral contests around the globe. The list seems almost endless, and I could go on, but I think everybody gets the idea.
Where should I begin? It is worth putting on the record my belief that the UK needs to maintain its co-operation with our allies in combating the various threats. That is best practice, irrespective of whether we believe the threats to be real or imagined. I have very real concerns that the UK is isolating itself through Brexit at a time when working with our European friends is more important than ever before. My colleagues and I in the Scottish National party believe the UK should pledge to remain a member of the EU’s Foreign Affairs Council post-Brexit. It is important that the UK maintains relations on the UN Security Council and keeps a united position with international allies on the matter of Russia. The SNP has been at the front of cross- party calls for the Government to adopt a Bill similar to the Magnitsky Act in the US, which would allow the foreign sanctions that the hon. Member for Aberavon spoke about earlier. I thoroughly agree with that.
We have heard much about the physical threats from Russia, including the Salisbury attack, Syria, the annexation of Crimea, and activity in the Georgian territories and Ukraine. I will not delve into those issues more deeply; I think we are all on the same page.
We know Russian bombers regularly probe NATO airspace with incursions as far south as Spain and as far north as Scotland. Russian jets pressing on the Scottish coast resulted in RAF jets being scrambled in January this year, and in September and May last year, and submarines pressed on the Scottish coast as recently as November and July last year. In October 2017, the then Defence Secretary told the Select Committee on Defence that there had been an “extraordinary increase” in Russian submarine activity in the north Atlantic. Scotland has a pivotal place in the High North and it is a critical point for national security.
In January 2018, the Chief of the Defence Staff, Sir Nick Carter, warned that the UK is trailing Russia in terms of defence spending and capability. There have been no maritime patrol aircraft since the last Nimrod left service in 2012. I call on the UK Government to restate their commitment to purchasing all nine of the promised Poseidon P-8 aircraft and to put defence resources in place as soon as possible.
Perhaps the most worrying aspect of Russian activity relates to cyber-security infrastructure and threats to domestic politics and elections. No amount of conventional border controls or armed forces can protect against this new hybrid war. We need new specialists to counter the growing threat, and ensuring that the UK has the cyber-security experts it needs must be a priority for the Government. What steps are being taken to close the gap between the supply of and demand for those experts? What appraisal has been made of the effectiveness of programmes such as CyberFirst in encouraging students to pursue careers in cyber-security, because we are really going to need them?
The Select Committee on Digital, Culture, Media and Sport inquiry into fake news has raised key concerns about Russia’s interference in UK politics and society, including evidence highlighting that between 6% and 7% of URL-sharing activity in the US election came from Russian sources. University of Edinburgh research has revealed that more than 400 Russian-run Twitter accounts that were active during the 2016 US presidential election were also actively posting about Brexit during the EU referendum. In March, the Sunday Herald reported that Scotland’s First Minister is facing online cyber-attacks from Kremlin trolls. She has been aggressively targeted on social media. The SNP has recommended that the Cabinet Office, the Electoral Commission, local government, GCHQ and the new National Cyber Security Centre establish permanent machinery for monitoring cyber-activity in respect to public figures, elections and referendums.
Accusations abound regarding potential Russian interference with the Brexit vote. I do not know how that stacks up. We will all have seen the press reports that appeared first in The Observer about Arron Banks, the millionaire businessman who bankrolled the Brexit leave campaign, having had multiple meetings with Russian embassy officials in the run-up to the referendum. The SNP wants to ensure that this specific case of interference in the Brexit referendum is investigated fully and impartially, and that the implications of Russian political interference, if proven, are treated with extreme severity, given that the outcome goes against the wishes of the Scottish electorate. I look forward to learning the results of the Electoral Commission’s investigation into the source of Mr Banks’s £8.4 million referendum donations and loans. We call on the Vote Leave campaign to engage with the authorities transparently and fully in the investigations.
In conclusion, it is fair to say that Putin and his regime have been portrayed as villains of the piece, not without some justification. He is not an imaginary bogeyman; he is very real. He is also serving what is likely to be his last term as President of the Russian Federation, barring similar shenanigans to what has previously happened. We must therefore begin preparations for the post-Putin era, but who are his potential successors? I do not know, but that may present a potential opening, with the possibility of not repeating past mistakes that have led us to the current situation of seriously strained relations. As the hon. Member for Isle of Wight has suggested, an easier visa regime may help assist that position. However, I fear that a diplomatic service consumed by Brexit will not be able to find the resources to do that. Nevertheless, we have to be able to defend ourselves against fake news and bot armies, as well as conventional attacks and terror-related incidents, irrespective of whether they be of Russian or any other origin.
Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)
It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I thank the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely) for his detailed introduction; he is clearly very close to the issue, particularly so in his previous life, before he came to this place. He shows a huge and continuing interest in security matters. I take issue, however, with his mention of a member of the Labour leader’s staff, who is not able to respond. That did not need to be aired here. It is possible to do that in other places, but it is not for this place.
Russian foreign policy making has become increasingly the preserve of Putin. Russian foreign policy is based on realist assumptions—a vision of zero-sum competition between nations, using largely hard power to establish spheres of interest based on geography. Policies are aimed at restoring national pride and Russia’s place at the top table in world affairs. Defence spending has gone up, and Putin’s popularity is reported to be a near-record high.
That reflects the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), who spoke of understanding the culture of the Russian people, how nationalistic they are and how deeply entrenched their national heritage is. That is one reason why Putin has been able to get away with his actions following the sanctions placed on Russia.
[Ms Karen Buck in the Chair]
My hon. Friend spent time in Russia with the British Council, which does a huge amount of great work, not only in Russia but across the whole world, as I have said before. Its presence in other countries is one of the United Kingdom’s best forms of access to them, which further increases our sphere of influence. We should always look, at the first opportunity, to get the British Council into those areas.
Most of our senior policy makers were not quite awake to Mr Putin’s returning to the presidency in 2014, since when there has been a stand-off with the west over the Russian intervention in Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea in 2014, and a dramatic fall in oil prices. Since then, hard-line nationalist assumptions have increasingly entered official Russian foreign policy, although they have no means of taking it over completely. Economic difficulties have increased, and Russian nationalism and assertive foreign policies have been increasingly used to bolster the legitimacy of the Government at home, who continue to use external threats for that purpose.
The hon. Member for Isle of Wight mentioned Sergei and Yulia Skripal and the chemical agent Novichok being used on British soil, which is hugely serious. That has quite rightly been hugely condemned worldwide, with the rest of the world showing its distaste for the action and its significant support for the UK; several countries expelled Russian diplomats to show that that was not acceptable, and nor should it be in the arena we are in. The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the chemical weapons watchdog, was last night strengthened by a vote in which the UK was supported by its allies to overcome Russian opposition. After not getting the result they wanted, the Russians are now considering leaving OPCW. Dealing with that will be a serious issue.
Furthermore, the Skripals’ house was purchased by the British Government to the tune of £350,000. Obviously, a nerve agent being used in that house makes it difficult for anybody else to live there. The city of Salisbury has suffered hugely because of that incident, and we are fortunate that the effect on the Skripals and the police officer who was directly affected was not far more devastating. We need to compound that point and make it clearly.
Russia is subject to a sanctions regime imposed in a co-ordinated move by the EU and the US, and other western allies such as Canada, in reaction to the destabilisation of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, which continues and needs to be looked at closely. We need to look at what else we can to do to encourage Russia back into negotiations on that and back into politics. The sanctions are targeted against individuals and entities. As other hon. Members have already said, we need to understand who we should target—whether they be ordinary Russians coming into the United Kingdom or those oligarchs associated with Mr Putin and the Russian establishment.
The hugely important issue of money laundering has been raised, and it should be a serious part of trying to resolve the issues. There has been mounting pressure to introduce Magnitsky legislation in the UK. The original Magnitsky Act powers in the USA provided for the officials allegedly involved in Sergei Magnitsky’s death to be sanctioned, although it was later broadened into a general power for the US to impose sanctions against human rights abusers. We need to seriously consider implementing such important legislation.
I see that the occupant of the Chair has changed; it is a privilege to serve under you, Ms Buck. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon said that we need to further examine assassinations by Russian intelligence and security services across the UK but also in Russia. He clearly made the point that there must be a political solution to the issue but that that should not come at the expense of remaining robust in fighting against Russian intervention and aggression where it is not needed.
The hon. Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) raised the World cup. I certainly hope that we win it—we are having such a good run. He also raised cyber issues and the weakness of the Russian economy. A significant amount of work has been done on the cyber issue, including reports produced by the Foreign Affairs Committee, the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the Intelligence and Security Committee and several others. We should look at those and consider how to follow up on them.
Hon. Members also mentioned alleged war crimes in Syria—particularly the chemical weapons attacks in Douma and in the north-west of Damascus in Ghouta. The OPCW fact-finding mission arrived in Syria on 14 April 2018 to establish whether chemical weapons, and what type, were used in Douma, although it has not attempted to ascribe responsibility for their use. We need to seriously look at such issues and find out those facts. There have been a huge amount of human rights abuses by the Syrians and by ISIL terrorists, and we need to seriously consider how to deal with and resolve such horrendousness in the future.
The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) made several points on cyber-attacks. More importantly, he raised the protecting of the rights of the LGBTQ community. Although the Russians are making a show of doing so during the World cup, which in itself is a step forward, it needs to be embedded in Russia so that the right sort of support is provided.
The hon. Member for Isle of Wight raised a couple of issues that the Minister should address, particularly regarding a cross-agency approach. Perhaps we could use the “Five Eyes” network. Such systems are crucial. Rather than looking only at networks internal to the UK, it is far more important to co-ordinate our networks across the globe. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the sorts of sectors we should cover, including the key sector of investment banking. Not all the money brought in is through money laundering—a lot is done through the financial sector. We must address that and look at what sort of people are involved. Allegations have been made regarding raffle tickles being bought for tennis matches, and the Minister should also address the serious issue of party donations.
I wholly agree with the hon. Member for Isle of Wight that, along with the British Council, the BBC World Service plays an integral role in the work that needs to be done. It puts across the British heritage angle. That is a huge tool in developing relationships. Many people rely on the BBC World Service to listen to what they believe to be factual information. We need to invest money in that. I am not sure I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the Department for International Development should do that, but I am sure that the Minister can find money elsewhere for that investment.
I support the hon. Gentleman’s comments on the visa regime, but although we are talking about Russia, there are other countries we should support in that respect. On the policy of cutting professionals who come to the United Kingdom, I am glad that the Home Secretary has managed to reverse the position for doctors who come here. I hope that will also be the case for other professionals, such as the nurses and medical staff from eastern Europe and elsewhere across the globe.
Will the Minister tell us whether the Prime Minister is considering downgrading our status as a tier 1 defence nation? That serious issue has been developing in the newspapers, but I do not believe anyone in Parliament has asked or answered that question. If I may, I want to use the Minister as a conduit and get information from the Government about whether the Prime Minister is considering downgrading us to a second-tier defence nation. I do not believe that would be in the interest of the nation. There have been significant cuts, but in order to fund the national health service we should not cut our defence. Defence has been hugely strategic for the United Kingdom for a very long time and I hope it stays that way. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
The Minister for Europe and the Americas (Sir Alan Duncan)
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely) for securing this debate and for his comprehensive and thought-provoking paper on contemporary Russian conflict, which the Foreign Office is digesting. I was particularly struck by his assessment in the report and his speech that Russia uses at least 50 tools of state power, grouped into seven elements with “command and control” at its heart.
I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. I particularly appreciated the thoughtful speech by the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), who has direct personal experience of working in Russia. His speech deserves to be widely read. Likewise, my hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) gave us all a very cogent and comprehensive overview of the threats that we face from Russia.
It should be clear to us all that Russia has become more authoritarian, more nationalist and more aggressive in recent years. It increasingly defines itself in opposition to the west and as a victim of western aggression. It attempts to portray itself as a responsible global power, but its actions tell a different story. In reality, for some time it has been using a range of methods to undermine the international norms and laws on which our security and prosperity depend, and to destabilise our advanced democracies, open societies and free economies. Those methods range from conventional military intervention—as we have seen in Syria and its illegal actions in Georgia and Ukraine—to acts of non-military aggression in the form of disinformation and cyber-attacks, as we saw in Estonia in 2007. They range from stirring up trouble—as we saw in the attempted coup in Montenegro—to clamping down on dissent by locking up people such as Oleg Sentsov. All those methods are designed to destabilise by sowing chaos, fear, uncertainty, mistrust, and division.
Russia is expanding the range of its malign activities, as we found to our cost in Salisbury—I will say more about that in a moment—and it continues to strengthen its military capabilities. It engages in provocative military activity near NATO borders, for example by stepping up submarine traffic in the north Atlantic, which we heard about earlier. Russia is also undermining the treaties and norms of global arms control. Just this week we have observed the shameful spectacle of Russia trying to block the efforts of the Conference of States Parties to protect the chemical weapons convention. However, yesterday 82 countries voted in support of the proposal tabled by the UK, and the Conference of States Parties agreed that the OPCW would immediately start work to help to identify those responsible for chemical attacks in Syria. It will be able to attribute the use of chemical weapons to someone.
The attack in Salisbury was an especially egregious example within the pattern of increasing Russian aggression. It clearly showed the risks that Russia is prepared to take in its provocation of the west. We are quite clear that Russia was responsible for this outrageous act. It is also pretty clear that the Kremlin wholly underestimated the strength of global feeling. Following the expulsion of 153 diplomats from 28 countries and NATO, it can be under no illusion now about our collective resolve. In addition to the reckless use of chemical weapons in Salisbury, the Kremlin also seeks to sow discord here in the UK; it wants to disrupt our systems and undermine our institutions. We know that there have been attacks on the UK media, telecommunication companies and energy providers, along with attempts to interfere in our democratic processes. We have seen no evidence of successful interference, but we can see the threat and we must remain vigilant.
I assure the House that the Government are responding to those threats with strength and determination. I assure the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) and everyone that we are working across Government to protect our democracy. We have invested nearly £2 billion in the UK’s national cyber security strategy and in the establishment of the National Cyber Security Centre, which will fight cyber-attacks by states and criminal organisations. We are collaborating with international partners, industry and civil society to tackle the threat of disinformation and propaganda.
Independent regulators such as the Electoral Commission and Ofcom are also playing their part. The commission is investigating irregularities reported during the EU referendum campaign and Ofcom is conducting 11 investigations into breaches of the broadcasting code. Disinformation is not new, but it has been turbo-charged by the power of social media. In whatever form it takes—old-fashioned propaganda, fake news, or downright lies—it is designed to manipulate, confuse and divide. It is also designed to undermine trust in our institutions and our way of life.
Freedom of speech and a free, open and accessible media are hugely important components of that way of life. I understand why my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight requested a counter-propaganda Bill, but will he consider the possible unforeseen consequences that might ensue? I am sure he would agree that we would not wish to impose a legal strait jacket on the personal freedoms that we hold so dear. Nor should we assume that problems will be solved simply by passing legislation. We will continue to use all the tools at our disposal to bear down on disinformation, while at the same time continuing to champion freedom of speech. We will also look to enhance online safety. The Government will publish a White Paper on that in the coming months. Potential areas for legislation include a code of practice, transparency reporting and online advertising.
We are committed to tackling illicit finances in the UK, whatever their origin. I welcome the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report on the subject, to which the Government will respond in due course. We are determined that this country should not be a safe haven for dirty money and money launderers and we will ensure that the full weight of law enforcement is brought to bear on corrupt elites who look to use, move or hide the proceeds of crime.
Since the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 was introduced, more than £2.2 billion has been seized. The first unexplained wealth order has already been issued—there was a question about that—and we are cracking down on the use of shell companies to launder money through UK real estate transactions. Through the national economic crime centre, embedded within the National Crime Agency, the Serious Fraud Office will work with law enforcement partners to ensure that big business and wealthy foreign elites cannot use their wealth to obstruct justice.
Parliament recently passed the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018—indeed, I was in charge of the Bill’s passage—which gives us the powers to sanction individuals and entities for a wide range of purposes including money laundering, as the name suggests, and take action against those suspected of gross human rights abuses such as those committed against Sergei Magnitsky. Indeed, the whole House joined as one in welcoming the embodiment of the Magnitsky clause in that Act. While not directly related to the fight against illicit finance, the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill will also strengthen our ability to counter hostile state activity by bringing in new powers to stop, question, search and detain individuals at the UK border.
In addition to domestic action, the UK continues to work closely with our international partners and allies to tackle Russian aggression across the globe. We have been at the forefront of the strong and determined international response to the Salisbury attack mentioned earlier. Sanctions remain a key part of the ongoing response, and we will continue to work proactively on that with our US, EU and G7 partners. Indeed, we are working with those partners to fight back against state-sponsored aggression in cyber-space. Together, for the first time on such a scale, we attributed the NotPetya cyber-attack to the Russian military. In April, in another first, we issued a joint statement with the US Government publicly exposing an extensive and sustained campaign of Russian intrusion into the internet infrastructure of both our countries.
At the G7 summit earlier this month, leaders agreed on a rapid response mechanism to share intelligence, co-ordinate action and develop new strategies to tackle malign state activity, and at today’s European Council the Prime Minister will be discussing how EU countries can work together to meet the range of threats we face. We hope that leaders will agree to work alongside NATO to build stronger defences against chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear threats, take collective action to tackle Russian cyber-threats and extend EU efforts to counter Russian disinformation and interference in Europe.
At next month’s NATO summit in Brussels, we will seek unity and consensus on Russia and emphasise the need to work towards a strong defence and deterrence policy. At the western Balkans summit in London next month, the Government will stand firm in our resolve, alongside partners, to help the region counter Russian disinformation and cyber-threats. Indeed, the UK is investing more than £100 million over five years in countering disinformation that targets our national interests at home and overseas.
Countering disinformation also underpins our efforts in tackling the challenges faced by Russia’s neighbours—Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Belarus. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary attended the Ukraine reform conference yesterday, and our £30 million in support of Ukraine’s reform agenda includes strategic communications support and building the Ukrainian armed forces’ resilience.
We feel obliged to take our current approach because Russia appears increasingly prepared to test our collective response. However, as has been said on both sides of the House, I stress that we are not looking for confrontation. We have no quarrel with the Russian people. We are encouraged that they have warmly welcomed World cup fans from around the world, and we want to work with Russia on issues that matter to all of us, as we did on World cup preparations.
However, we will not compromise with states who seek to degrade the structures and treaties that keep us all safe. Russia needs to choose a different path. It must act as the responsible international partner it claims to be, and indeed, the partner it should be, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Until that happens—I hope that it will—we will continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our many partners and allies, resolute, determined and united against those who seek to divide us.
Mr Seely
Thank you, Ms Buck, as well as Mr Bone, for your chairmanship of the debate. I thank the Front-Bench Members as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) and the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) for taking part.
On the hon. Gentleman’s point, it is incredibly important to understand Russia’s complex, somewhat love-hate relationship with the west and, in debates such as this, to seek more to understand than to condemn. That is why I wrote the definition and have suggested measures that the Government can take. It is important to do that rather than simply see the world in binary terms.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered Russian Federation activity in the UK and globally.
Written Statements
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Energy Policy
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Richard Harrington)
In its written ministerial statement of 11 January 2018, Official Report, column 9WS, the Government set out their commitment to put in place all the necessary measures to ensure that the UK can operate as an independent and responsible nuclear state upon the UK’s withdrawal from Euratom. As made clear in a further written ministerial statement of 26 March 2018, the UK will take legal responsibility for its own nuclear safeguards regime when Euratom safeguards arrangements no longer apply.
The necessary measures include the negotiation of new bilateral safeguards agreements with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). I am pleased to announce that on 7 June 2018 the UK and the IAEA signed these new agreements—a voluntary offer agreement and additional protocol—and we intend to bring these to Parliament for ratification this autumn. The new agreements will replace the current trilateral agreements between the UK, the IAEA and Euratom.
The conclusion of these agreements marks the successful achievement of a major Euratom exit milestone and an important step towards ensuring business continuity for the civil nuclear sector once Euratom arrangements cease to apply to the UK.
On 26 June 2018, the Nuclear Safeguards Bill, which provides the necessary powers to establish a domestic nuclear safeguards regime, received Royal Assent. The passage of this Bill marks another important Euratom exit milestone and paves the way for the secondary legislation, on which the Government will be publicly consulting over the summer, to be put in place before the end of March 2019.
The Government have also progressed their discussions on nuclear co-operation agreements (NCAs) with priority countries to ensure continuity for the civil nuclear sector. On 4 May 2018 the UK signed a bilateral NCA with the United States of America, and remains on track to have bilateral agreements with all priority countries in place when Euratom arrangements cease to apply to the UK.
In parallel with the above, the Government are negotiating with the EU on the UK's separation from, and future relationship with, Euratom. The UK and EU have now reached agreement on all Euratom related articles of the draft withdrawal agreement. The relevant text has therefore been finalised.
There is more detail on these matters in the second quarterly update which has today been provided to Parliament by way of a report. The paper will be placed in the Libraries of the House. As Royal Assent of the Nuclear Safeguards Bill was received on 26 June, the content and timing of these reporting updates to Parliament will be determined by the relevant provisions of that legislation.
[HCWS809]
Industrial Strategy
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Greg Clark)
As part of the industrial strategy, the Government committed to making the most of the UK’s strengths, so we can develop the technologies that will transform existing industries and create better, higher-paying jobs in every part of the United Kingdom. The nuclear sector is an undoubted strength of our economy and one of the most advanced in the world, from research, fuel production, generation through to decommissioning, waste management, transport and our world-class regulatory system—it is an industry which offers huge opportunity for the future.
Sector deals, where industries are invited to come forward with plans for their future, embody the ethos of our collaborative approach. They show how industry and the Government, working together, can boost the productivity and earning power of specific sectors. We have already struck ambitious deals with the artificial intelligence, life sciences, automotive and creative industries sectors and we look forward to building on this in the months ahead.
The Government have worked closely with the sector champion Lord Hutton and industry leads from the Nuclear Industry Council to develop a number of proposals by 2030, which include:
30% cost reduction in the cost of new build projects
Savings of 20% in the cost of decommissioning compared with current estimates
Women to make up 40% of the nuclear sector by 2030
Win up to £2 billion domestic and international contracts
The deal contains mutual commitments to drive greater productivity, innovation and exports by: adopting innovative advanced manufacturing and construction techniques in new nuclear projects: supporting advanced nuclear technologies including small modular reactors (SMRs) and a range of research and development activities; a joint review of the decommissioning pipeline to achieve greater value for the taxpayer and to boost exports; a supply chain competitiveness programme to support UK business to build capabilities to win work domestically and internationally; and a range of proposals to support a future workforce including a new apprenticeship standard and a commitment to a more diverse workforce, including a target of women making up 40% of the nuclear sector by 2030.
The UK has consistently been a world leader in nuclear technology and has been at the forefront of many new developments in the industry. This deal will continue that tradition through the establishment of a new framework to support the development and deployment of SMRs and the innovative technologies that support them. This support is designed to challenge the industry to bring forward technically and commercially viable propositions that would lead to the deployment of new reactors that would be investable and cost competitive in the energy system. This builds on the package announced in December 2017 of up to £44 million for research and development funding (up to £4 million in phase 1 and, subject to Government approval, up to £40 million for phase 2) for “advanced” modular reactors. I am pleased to announce the following companies have made credible propositions from a range of UK and international concepts and will receive grant funding to undertake detailed studies:
Advanced Reactor Concepts LLC;
DBD Ltd;
LeadCold;
Moltex Energy Ltd;
Tokamak Energy Ltd;
U-Battery Developments Ltd;
Ultra Safe Nuclear Corporation;
Westinghouse Electric Company UK Ltd.
The Government remain committed to fusion alongside fission and announced £86 million, in December 2017, to create a new national fusion technology platform at Culham in Oxfordshire. The Government are also working in partnership with the Welsh Government to develop a £40 million thermal hydraulics facility in north Wales as part of the nuclear innovation programme.
I have deposited a copy of the “Nuclear Sector Deal” in the Libraries of both Houses.
[HCWS804]
Piloting Alternative Electoral Canvassing Models: Evaluation Report
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)
I am pleased to publish the Government’s evaluation of the pilots conducted in 2017 in England, Scotland and Wales testing alternative approaches to the current annual canvass for the electoral register. These pilots were conducted under section 9 of the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013. The Electoral Commission has today published its own evaluation of the pilot findings.
The Government brought forward legislation to conduct these pilots to test alternative approaches to the canvass as the current process is expensive, administratively complex to run and confusing for citizens to navigate. The alternative approaches were initially proposed by the electoral community, with four models being refined and taken forward for piloting. These models were a household notification letter (HNL) model, a telephone canvassing model, an email model and a model that introduced a data discernment step at the start of the process. We tested these four models over 24 different local authorities in 2017, following a smaller sample of piloting the previous year. I would like to thank all the local authorities and their staff who participated.
The pilots and evaluation show that there are viable ways of improving the canvass to achieve a reduction in cost and administrative burden without compromising the volume and quality of data that is currently collected through this process. In particular, the pilots have shown that we can use data to help better target resources to those properties with a change in household composition. The pilots have also shown the ability to deploy more modern communication methods to engage citizens in the annual canvass. It is time the canvass process is brought into the 21st century. Doing so will build on other reforms to modernise electoral registration, such as the introduction of online registration, which have helped ensure the electoral register used for the 2017 general election was the largest ever.
The Government now intend to consult in the coming months on reforms to the annual canvass based on the pilot findings. We believe a hybrid model, incorporating the most successful elements of each of the models piloted, will be the most beneficial in achieving the aims of reform. We intend to publish a policy statement later this year setting out the plans and asking for feedback from all interested parties.
The pilots show the benefits of engaging closely with stakeholders, who are best placed to shape a system that works for everyone. We are indebted to the Electoral Commission, the Association of Electoral Administrators and the Scottish Assessors Association for their collaboration to date and look forward to this continuing throughout the development and implementation of these reforms.
Our intention is for reforms to be introduced across Great Britain. As elements of electoral registration are devolved in Scotland and Wales, reforms will need to be introduced jointly. We are therefore working closely with the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales. The publication of the evidence from the pilots is an important milestone that will help underpin this collaboration.
I am placing a copy of the evaluation report in the Libraries of both Houses.
[HCWS805]
United Kingdom Debt Management Office Business Plan
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)
The United Kingdom Debt Management Office (DMO) has today published its business plan for the financial year 2018-19. Copies have been deposited in the Libraries of both Houses and are available on the DMO’s website, www.dmo.gov.uk.
[HCWS810]
Building Safety Update
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (James Brokenshire)
Today, my Department has published the “Building Safety Programme: monthly data release” for June. This updates data on the identification, testing and remediation programme for aluminium composite material (ACM) cladding systems on high-rise buildings. I wanted to update the House on the further steps my Department is taking to ensure this work is completed as effectively and swiftly as possible.
Following the Grenfell Tower tragedy, the Government have been working closely with local authorities and fire and rescue services to identify and make safe high-rise buildings with unsafe cladding as a matter of urgency. Through the Government-funded testing programme at Building Research Establishment (BRE), which has been made available at no cost to all local authorities, housing associations, and public and private sector building owners, 314 buildings have been identified as having unsafe cladding. Of these, 159 are social housing, 14 are public buildings, and 141 are private residential buildings.
For high-rise buildings in the private sector, my predecessor wrote to local authorities last summer asking them to identify all privately owned buildings with potentially unsafe cladding. We have provided local authorities with £1.3 million to assist in this process. As part of this work, local authorities have been collecting information on ACM buildings in their areas which have not been tested at BRE. This effort from local authorities has resulted in them assessing over 6,000 high-rise private sector buildings. They have now identified an additional 156 private sector high-rise residential buildings with unsafe cladding. Adding these to the 141 already identified by BRE testing brings the total to 297 private sector high-rise residential buildings identified as having ACM cladding that is unlikely to meet current building regulations guidance.
We are confident that, through this testing and the hard work of local authorities, we have identified all social housing with unsafe ACM cladding systems in England. However, beyond the 297 confirmed private sector buildings, the cladding status of approximately 170 private sector residential buildings remains outstanding. For all but a handful of these buildings, local authorities have commenced enforcement action to obtain the necessary information from owners who are responsible for ensuring safety. Based on current evidence, and the identification rate to date, we expect 3% to 5% of the remaining buildings to have similar ACM cladding systems to those which have failed large-scale system tests. Address details for these buildings have been passed to local fire and rescue services, which are prioritising visits to those buildings to confirm appropriate fire safety measures are in place.
In the private sector, local authorities are checking actions being taken to remediate buildings and have told us about plans for 72 of the private sector buildings identified to date. Of these, 21 have started remediation, and four of these have been completed. Remediation work has also started on 70% of the social sector buildings, and the Government will fully fund the removal and replacement of unsafe ACM cladding systems on residential social housing buildings 18 metres and above owned by social landlords, with costs estimated at £400 million.
In the light of this updated information, I am taking the following steps:
A new ministerially-chaired taskforce is being established to actively oversee the remediation of private sector buildings with ACM cladding systems. The taskforce will be charged with ensuring that remediation plans are put in place swiftly across all private sector buildings with ACM cladding systems, addressing any barriers or identifying any additional support required to achieve this. Membership of this taskforce will include the Local Government Association (LGA), the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC), London councils, local authorities who have experienced the largest degree of impact and industry representatives.
The LGA and NFCC are convening a joint expert inspection team to help local authorities on the ground. This team will support local authorities in ensuring and, where necessary, enforcing remediation of private sector high-rise residential buildings with unsafe ACM cladding systems. To support the work of the inspection team, I am making up to £1 million available to support local authorities on further enforcement steps and the Department is also developing further statutory guidance for local authorities to enhance their use of existing Housing Act powers in relation to fire safety hazards associated with cladding on high-rise residential buildings.
Following my recent roundtable with industry representatives, I have responded to their suggestions by inviting them to develop industry-led solutions to deliver remediation, exploring all options to protect leaseholders from additional costs. At a further meeting in July, I will expect industry to present their proposals with a view to agreeing next steps. I rule out no options if industry and individual building owners of developers do not come forward with their own solutions. In the meantime, I will continue to explore other routes for protecting leaseholders. These may include: supporting local authorities to take more targeted action to identify and remediate affected buildings and recovering costs from those responsible for ensuring the safety of buildings; and supporting leaseholder enfranchisement.
My Department is writing to all relevant private sector building owners to remind them of their responsibility to make their buildings safe. This includes: confirming to the relevant local authority whether they have ACM cladding systems if they have not yet done so; implementing any necessary interim safety measures and permanently remediating their buildings, reminding them that local authorities have powers to enforce these improvements if building owners do not take action; and setting out my expectation that they should explore all options to protect leaseholders from incurring the costs associated with replacing unsafe cladding.
Building owners are responsible for ensuring the safety of their buildings and their residents. Government and local authorities will monitor and hold them to account for this where they have unsafe ACM cladding systems. The Government continue to drive forward these steps as a priority, with the aim that residents are safe in their homes and that they feel safe.
The link to the data is: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/building-safety-programme-monthly-data-release-june-2018. I will place the documents in the Library of the House.
[HCWS811]
ISC Detainee Reports
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Prime Minister (Mrs Theresa May)
The Government agreed with the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament (ISC) in December 2013 that it would inquire into the themes and issues identified in Sir Peter Gibson’s detainee inquiry report, take further evidence and produce a report. The ISC has now concluded its work and its report on detainee mistreatment and rendition issues has today been laid in Parliament. It is in two parts: the first on the period 2001 to 2010; the second on current issues.
The Government welcome the publication of the ISC’s reports. It is important to begin by noting the context in which the Government, including the security and intelligence agencies and armed forces, was working in the immediate aftermath of 11 September 2001 and the deployments of armed forces personnel to Iraq and Afghanistan. The UK responded, alongside its international partners, to the tragic events of 9/11 with the aim of doing everything possible to prevent further loss of innocent life, both here and overseas. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the priority again was preventing loss of life.
With the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that UK personnel were working within a new and challenging operating environment for which, in some cases, they were not prepared. It took too long to recognise that guidance and training for staff was inadequate, and too long to understand fully and take appropriate action on the risks arising from our engagement with international partners on detainee issues. The agencies responded to what they thought were isolated allegations and incidents of mistreatment, but the ISC concludes that they should have realised the extent to which others were using unacceptable practices as part of a systematic programme. The agencies acknowledge that they did not fully understand this quickly enough and they regret not doing so.
UK personnel are bound by applicable principles of domestic and international law. The Government do not participate in, solicit, encourage or condone the use of torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment (CIDT) for any purpose. The ISC has noted, in the context of its historical report, a number of cases where intelligence and armed forces personnel are alleged to have threatened individuals in foreign detention. Such alleged behaviour is clearly unacceptable and the ISC’s current issues report recognises that improvements have been made to operational processes, fostering a greater awareness of risks and establishing enhanced oversight in relation to detainee issues.
Since 2010, UK intelligence and armed forces personnel have operated under the published consolidated guidance. It provides direction for UK personnel and governs their interaction with detainees held by others overseas and the handling of intelligence derived from them. As the ISC acknowledges, very few countries in the world have attempted to set out their approach to these matters, and let themselves be held accountable in this manner, and it is to the security and intelligence agencies’ and Ministry of Defence’s credit that they have embedded these procedures and ensure that their personnel follow them carefully when dealing with detainees held by others. It is coupled with a world-leading independent oversight regime, underpinned by the Justice and Security Act 2013 and the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. This has given enhanced powers to the Intelligence and Security Committee to oversee the activities of the security and intelligence agencies, alongside the statutory role of the Investigatory Powers Commissioner, Sir Adrian Fulford.
Working closely with international partners is an essential part of keeping this country and its people safe. In doing so UK personnel seek assurances from those countries on their treatment of individuals and make clear the UK’s position on torture and CIDT. Detainee-related work remains important and at times difficult, but intelligence and armed forces personnel are now much better placed to meet that challenge. The lessons from what happened in the aftermath of the appalling terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 are to be found in improved operational policy and practice, better guidance and training, and an enhanced oversight and legal framework. We should be proud of the work done by our intelligence and service personnel, often in the most difficult circumstances, but it is only right that they should be held to the highest possible standards in protecting our national security.
The Government will give further consideration to the ISC’s conclusions and recommendations, noting that it has expressed a number of concerns about the consolidated guidance, but has said that these should be read in the spirit of continuous improvement. Formal oversight responsibility for the consolidated guidance rests with the Investigatory Powers Commissioner, following my direction to him under section 230 of the Investigatory Powers Act 2016, with effect from 1 September 2017. I am therefore inviting Sir Adrian to make proposals to the Government about how the guidance could be improved, taking account of the ISC’s views and those of civil society.
The Government will consider the reports in full and respond formally in due course.
[HCWS808]
Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)
The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council met on 21 June 2018 in Luxembourg. The Deputy Permanent Representative to the European Union, Katrina Williams, represented the UK.
Three legislative proposals achieved general approach at the Council. These were the proposed revision of regulations on co-ordination of social security systems (883/04 and 987/09); the directive on transparent and predictable working conditions in the European Union 16018/17; and the directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on work-life balance for parents and carers and repealing Council directive 2010/18/E.
The Council also discussed the European semester. As part of this agenda item, the Council approved draft Council recommendations on the national reform programmes 2018 of each member state; endorsed the opinions of the Employment Committee (EMCO) and the Social Protection Committee (SPC) on the 2018 country-specific recommendations (CSRs) and the implementation of the 2017 CSRs; and adopted a proposal on guidelines for the employment policies of the member states.
There were a number of progress reports and information items during the Council. These included an update on proposals for an equal treatment directive, the proposed European Labour Authority, and an overview of the Commission’s plans for the future European social fund plus (ESF+) and European globalisation adjustment fund (EGAF).
The Council closed with updates on the status of other legislative files, broader developments in the field of employment and social policy, and an overview of the priorities of the incoming Austrian presidency.
[HCWS806]
Jobseeker’s (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Minister for Employment (Alok Sharma)
I am today laying a proposed draft remedial order to amend the Jobseekers (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013.
The proposed draft remedial order ensures the right to a fair hearing for a small group of jobseekers who had a live appeal against a sanction decision made under the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise Schemes) Regulations 2011 (“the ESE regulations”) when the 2013 Act came into force. It enables the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to change this sanction decision and refund the amount withheld, without those affected individuals having to continue with their appeal.
In 2013, the courts ruled that the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise Schemes) Regulations 2011 that underpinned a range of programmes of support to help people into work did not describe the individual schemes in enough detail, and that our referral letters did not say enough about the activities required. The 2013 Act reinstated the original policy intent of these regulations. This ensured that jobseekers who had failed to take all reasonable steps to increase their chances of finding work between 2011 and 2013 did not unfairly obtain advantage over claimants who complied with the benefit conditionality requirements.
The Court of Appeal has since ruled that the 2013 Act is effective.
The 2013 Act did not prevent people from appealing if they felt they had a good reason for not participating in one of the employment schemes, but it meant their appeal would be unsuccessful if it related to their compliance with the 2011 regulations or the referral notification letters they received. The Court of Appeal has ruled that the Act has prevented claimants who had an appeal for failing to comply with the 2011 regulations still in the tribunal system on 26 March 2013 from having a fair hearing. For this small, specific group, the Court found that the Act is incompatible with article 6 of the European convention on human rights. The proposed draft remedial order addresses the Court of Appeal’s decision but does not affect the continuing validity of the 2013 Act.
I am using the non-urgent remedial order process to allow time for parliamentary scrutiny. The next 60 sitting days are a consultation period for Members of both Houses to send me any views. The order will also be scrutinised by the Joint Committee on Human Rights, and it will write a report. I will consider all representations I receive on the proposed draft order, and the Committee’s report. Once I have done so, I will revert to both Houses with a draft of the remedial order for consideration for a further 60 days.
[HCWS807]
Grand Committee
Sudan
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Sheikh
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the current situation in Sudan and of the opportunities for furthering United Kingdom trade, educational and cultural ties with Sudan.
Lord Sheikh (Con)
My Lords, I was pleased to secure this debate as I led a parliamentary delegation to Sudan in April 2018. I would like to declare my interest as co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Sudan. The visit was primarily a fact-finding mission. We also wanted to discuss how we can advance relations between the UK and Sudan. We found the Sudanese to be very friendly people. Currently, relations between the UK and Sudan are fairly positive.
Since 2016, the UK has been involved in a policy of phased engagement with the Government of Sudan. There is a biannual UK-Sudan Strategic Dialogue meeting, which is the main mechanism for this engagement. During our visit to Sudan, the delegation met the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who said that the meetings are an effective mechanism for the convergence of views. Following this policy, Sudan has opened additional humanitarian corridors to famine-affected areas of South Sudan, held productive discussions on human rights issues, and looked into co-operation on migration and the promotion of trade and economic reforms. On our side, the UK promotes conflict resolution in Darfur, South Kordofan and Blue Nile through our role in the troika. The UK also provides support to the African Union High-Level Implementation Panel to achieve permanent cessation of hostilities. DfID plays a key role in Sudan and provided £58.5 million in aid during 2017-18 for humanitarian assistance. It also has a £50 million portfolio to help with rural and urban water sanitation programmes, and has provided an additional sum of £12 million over five years to deal with issues relating to female genital mutilation.
We were told by the Sudanese that Sudan is perhaps the best state in the region on human rights. With that said, there are issues relating to human rights which do concern us. On human rights, the leadership of Sudan has shown that they are willing to listen to the international community. We need to work positively with the Sudanese to improve their human rights record. In January, opposition activists, leaders and protesters were arrested to curb demonstrations. Members of the APPG for Sudan who were concerned about human rights violations made representations to the Sudanese ambassador in London.
As mentioned previously, the delegation had a meeting with the Sudanese Foreign Minister. Members of the delegation raised the question of people who have been detained, including some who hold dual nationality. The Foreign Minister informed us that he was made aware and had noted our representation to the Sudanese ambassador. He said to us that the detainees would be released within a day or so. Two days after our meeting, the detainees were indeed released. This shows what can be achieved through dialogue instead of confrontation.
On religious freedom, the delegation met the representatives of the Churches in Sudan and enquired about infringements and restrictions on practising their faith. The leader of the Council of Churches told us that there is complete freedom for Christians to practice and that they enjoy peaceful coexistence and religious tolerance. No church or mosque is demolished if it is correctly owned.
It is important to note that Sudan has made progress on counterterrorism and human rights issues. That led to the US Government revoking a number of economic sanctions. As part of our visit, the delegation met the charge d’affaires for the United States of America in Sudan. We were told that the United States would consider the removal of Sudan from the state sponsors of terrorism list if it continues to make progress on certain key issues.
I would now like to talk about peace. As part of the visit to Sudan, the delegates visited South Kordofan state. Its governor emphasised that the insurgency in the area had ceased and there had been peace since 2016. Peace and stability has enabled the state to provide basic services relating to education, health, water and electricity. The example of South Kordofan shows how Sudan is moving forward from war and insurgency to peace.
The Sudanese Government remain committed to enacting their unilateral ceasefire announcement, which was last renewed by a presidential decree on 19 March 2018. They have remained committed to the cessation of hostilities for the last two years, despite the rebel attacks in some pockets of Darfur, particularly in Jebel Marra, where the elements of the rebel Sudan Liberation Army-Abdel Wahid are hiding. Sudan is also making efforts in the region to eradicate terrorism, and this should be admired. It has adopted various methods to fight terrorism and has played a role in combating al-Qaeda and ISIS. As part of that strategy, the Government have created a new and effective deradicalisation and rehabilitation programme for detained extremists.
While Sudan has made progress with regard to countering terrorism, it looks for direct co-operation with the UK on intelligence. During the fifth meeting of the biannual UK-Sudan Strategic Dialogue in April, both sides agreed to continue working together to counter terrorism and violent extremism. I welcome that agreement and hope that in future the British Government will work closely with Sudanese security teams to combat radicalisation.
I would also like to talk about how the UK can help Sudan progress with regard to education. In addition to business, I also have an academic background. The delegation visited three Sudanese universities. The vice-chancellors are keen to set up links with universities in the UK. Particular mention was made of exchange programmes and joint research activities. Setting up a chair for Sudanese studies at a university in the United Kingdom should be considered, as there is an appetite for it.
The economy of Sudan is a subject dear to my heart. The secession of South Sudan and international sanctions have left Sudan’s economy structurally weak. The lifting of sanctions opens the door to restored confidence in the Sudanese economy and increased foreign direct investment. That said, the country desperately needs more trade and an increase in business activity. We are leaving the European Union, which will be a vital opportunity to increase our trade with Sudan. To promote trade between the two countries, we should encourage banks, insurance organisations and legal firms to go and get established in Sudan. We should also arrange trade conferences and delegations to encourage this process. In December last year, a trade conference was held in London for Sudan. It is time to consider whether another conference should take place at a suitable time in future. Furthermore, consideration should be given to sending a trade delegation to Sudan.
With that said, I should like to talk about the culture of Sudan. During the visit, we visited the National Museum, which displays Sudan’s ancient heritage. Efforts should be made to promote this ancient history in the UK. There are also archaeological sites in Sudan, and links should be established with institutions in the United Kingdom for study and excavation. The successful Sudanese diaspora in the UK should perhaps think about setting up a Sudanese centre in this country to promote the history and culture of Sudan.
Lord Sheikh
Perhaps I can still ask some brief questions to the Minister—I have left some bits out. I ask my noble friend for information on the following points. First, can he explain what is being done in Sudan to tackle radicalisation, and is anything more envisaged? Secondly, is there anything more we can do to help Sudan to improve human rights in the country? Thirdly, can we work with Sudan to deal with the dire situation in South Sudan? Finally, what are his views on how we can enhance our relations with Sudan?
Lord Chidgey (LD)
My Lords, first, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, on securing this debate and giving your Lordships an opportunity to debate some important issues. On 27 June, precisely two years ago, the All-Party Group on Sudan, for which I am an officer, issued a calling notice for evidence for an inquiry into the future of UK-Sudan relations. Our inquiry was called to look at the changes there had been in the level of UK engagement with the Government of Sudan, the drivers for change and their likely ramifications.
At the time, the Government’s objectives included building on the Khartoum plan, working in a troika with Norway and the US to help curb the migration issues in Sudan, and tackling unresolved issues from the comprehensive peace agreement. The objectives extended to the conflict areas in Darfur, Abyei and eastern Sudan, tackling terrorism and extremism, and the UK Government’s priorities of humanitarian issues and human rights, as set out in the universal periodic review. Since then we have, unfortunately, progressed to a fifth Minister for Africa and a second ambassador to Sudan. All the while, government policy continues to be “phased engagement with Sudan” in the belief that Sudan wishes to repair relationships with the international community and is reaching out to Western nations.
As of three months ago, a considered view was that while the Khartoum process sought to improve people’s conditions in Sudan, there were broad and far-reaching concerns about human rights, migration, terrorism and economic reform. There was little chance of investment in Sudan due to the volatility in the Sudanese economy. There had been no measurable benefit following the lifting of UN sanctions. While Sudan remained on the state sponsors of terrorism list, there could be no UK Government involvement in trade promotion. Can the Minister give us a specific example of positive UK influence on the Sudanese regime’s actions? Can he name one area on which Sudanese officials have acted—as opposed to promising reform—after representations from the UK? The UK-Sudan strategic dialogue makes it clear that any engagement with the Government of Sudan must be bolstered by rigorous, enforceable human rights benchmarks, together with engagement with a young, diverse civil society. Can the Minister provide us with examples of tangible advances in these areas?
The lifting of sanctions must go hand-in-hand with efforts to tackle corruption. Sudan currently ranks 175th out of 180 on the Transparency International corruption index, which I can vouch for as an associate of TI (UK). Sudan is more corrupt than, for example, Libya, North Korea and Eritrea.
Just over a month ago, Jeremiah Mamabolo, head of UNAMID, the African Union-UN peacekeeping mission, reported that fighting between Sudanese Government forces and the Sudan Liberation Army-Abdel Wahid rebels had left villages such as Gobbo, Kawara and Kiminjtong in south Darfur and others in central Darfur burned and the villagers displaced. This is all despite the unilateral ceasefire announced by Khartoum in March, which applies to Darfur, the Blue Nile and South Kordofan states. Washington is reported to have condemned the fighting, which it said has resulted in thousands of new internally displaced people.
Meanwhile, the Sudanese Government’s Central Bureau of Statistics reported that, in May, inflation increased to an annual rate of 61%. The bureau’s economist, Dr Sidgi Kaballo, said that this was leading to starkly diminished purchasing power, increased poverty, worsening health conditions, and growing rates of migration and unemployment. Dr Sidgi noted that the implementation of far-reaching austerity measures in 2018 has led to the price of bread and other basics doubling and to the price of some medicines tripling. Sudanese across the country took to the streets, and police used tear gas and live bullets to disperse the demonstrators. The World Bank has estimated that Sudan’s external debt now stands at $52 billion, or 112% of GDP. That is hardly conducive to investment.
Sudan is in a dire state, with Turkey and Saudi Arabia organising emergency supplies of food, aid and other measures. In his response, will the Minister advise us of the Government’s reaction to Sudan’s perilous situation and what positive assistance they are providing to one of the United Kingdom’s oldest friends on the African continent?
Lord Luce (CB)
My Lords, I will give a slightly different perspective on this. I first went to the Sudan in the 1950s as the son of a British administrator. An indelible impression was left with me of a very decent people, for whom any British person who worked with them formed a great deal of affection. I recall Islam and Christianity existing side by side, living in peace with no difficulties at all. I recall also being taken to the opening of the first parliament of the Sudan in the early 1950s and watching the excitement of the Sudanese. Looking back over more than five decades, it is impossible not to express great disappointment at some of what has happened in the Sudan.
Among some leaders, there has been contempt for their own people. The country has now divided into two and there have been serious abuses of human rights—notably in Darfur and the Two Areas, as the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, mentioned. The humanitarian situation is bad, with displacement on a big level. There is poverty, with 50% of people earning just $2 a day or less. Corruption has been bad and there has been little respect for the eternal UN universal values.
Having said all that, I think the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, has done us a service by focusing attention on what we can do in a positive way and on what the Government are doing through the strategic dialogue between the United Kingdom and the Sudan. I want to reinforce the arguments for this, because, in an age when we are suffering internationally from immense problems of refugees and migration, we need to go back to the source of where these problems emerge and work with those countries to improve the situation and lesson the tensions. That is true particularly in Africa, where the population is increasing very fast. I suggest that there are an awful lot of countries which we would have no relationship with if we did not talk to leaders whose values and policies we did not always agree with. It makes sense that as we were the country with the most responsibility historically, in an imperial age, we should take responsibility and lead on this internationally through the troika and the African Union.
I support the strategic dialogue and it is right to make it comprehensive. As we have already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, it covers: human rights; freedom of religion; migration; extremism; how we develop cultural, educational and trade ties, which are very important; and, importantly, how we help them to develop their economy. Getting the balance right, and making a sustained effort to talk and to make progress on a comprehensive scale, is very important. You cannot, of course, talk about human rights if you do not also talk about the participation and consent of the people, and the rule of law. All these things go together. I support, therefore, Government-to-Government dialogue but, alongside that, it is essential that we develop a strong people-to-people dialogue. That is as important as anything. After all, I think that the diaspora here in this country numbers 50,000 and many of those people have great skills, professional knowledge and experience. They can contribute an enormous amount to their country of origin; indeed, I hope that one day conditions will be good enough to enable them to return.
The British Council can do an immense amount. Education and scholarships have been mentioned but I would have thought that when developing trade, helping to teach business skills and other skills is just as important as the bigger scholarships. Then there is civil society. Although it may be difficult in terms of rapport with the Government, that needs to be developed as strongly as we possibly can.
Will the Minister, from time to time, report on the progress of these talks and the benefits they may bring to both the Sudan and our relationship with it? We need to be clear about the benchmarks for measuring progress in this dialogue so, if he could say something about that, it would help. For example, will there be international monitoring of the 2020 elections? That could be treated as a benchmark, which might contribute to more stability in the Sudan. I look forward to the Minister’s response. The people of the Sudan deserve better.
Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)
My Lords, it is a real privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Luce. I respectfully agree with much of what he said. I am pleased to take part in this timely review of the current situation in Sudan. In the minutes I have available, I will curtail myself to speaking about the women of Sudan.
All local and international conflict inevitably means that it is women and their families who suffer grave poverty and injustice. They lack access to basic medical needs and they miss out educationally and, not least, on social and economic growth and prosperity. Noble Lords may wish to note that I have visited Sudan on two occasions, with a view to making a specific assessment of the impact on women of the prolonged and unjust sanctions that have crippled Sudan’s basic infrastructure and services, with a severe impact on child and maternal health and education, as well as hampering the well-being of all the people of Sudan.
The Committee should note the presence of women in leading roles in all sections of society—the family has always been firm in Sudan—and the resilience of women in Sudan, even though a difficult period of history has curtailed access to office for some of them. It is worth noting that women were enfranchised in 1953 and that they currently occupy 30% of the seats in the assembly. Constitutionally, Sudanese women’s rights are enshrined in Sudan’s legislation. Sudanese women also occupy numerous positions within the civil services, including in diplomatic missions and the African Union Commission, and they were pioneers in the judiciary on the African continent and the Arab world, setting a precedent with the first female judge in modern history in that region. Alongside numerous senior female judges, 40% of legal counsellors and prosecutors in Sudan’s Ministry of Justice are females.
The Ahfad University for Women, which I am sure my noble friend will talk about later, stands as an example of the pioneering advances in female education in Sudan. Established in 1907, it was elevated to university status in 1966 and currently hosts more than 6,000 female students, who are enrolled from Sudan, the region and the rest of the world. According to UNESCO, the gross enrolment ratio of female students in secondary education in Sudan is 45%, compared to 46% for males. Their presence within the national dialogue is most noteworthy as Sudan emerges from the dark days of sanction and isolation.
I commend the UK’s ongoing strategic dialogue and the British Council’s programme, alongside our joint collaboration to counter regional extremism. Can the Minister say how many women are involved in these programmes and whether any of the expert group of trainers and negotiators who we may be sending are from the diaspora? How many are Sudanese women? I accept that, post conflict, Sudan requires many facets of assistance and aid. No doubt the rules of engagement apply to the exchange of our financial support, training and trade. Can the Minister give an assurance that those rules of engagement have undergone some kind of transformation since the bygone era of our colonial past? The ethos of “We know best” does not stand up to scrutiny in the current world order and I hope that our work will be collaborative, avoiding any relics of the colonial policies of the past.
We must ensure that in all future programmes experts have a stake in developing Sudan, not keeping it under our thumb for the next generation. The expertise must come from the Sudanese and African diaspora and should in particular include women in equal numbers in the leading positions. Given our current international priorities and ongoing development support, I would like to see the needs of women and families addressed in our overall strategic priorities.
I note that many of the complexities that have been mentioned are ongoing and require our continuing collective co-operation to resolve many issues as we forge ahead in our relationship with Sudan. Can the Minister tell us how women’s economic empowerment and leadership can be further strengthened and supported by our Government’s initiatives, both those already in place and those for the future? How many women are benefiting from the Chevening scholarship programme and what, if anything, is already in place as a part of our package of trade, education and other forms of support to ensure that women can freely access health and social care for their families and play their part in civil society? How will the noble Lord ensure that, instead of our usual experts being sent out to meet the perceived needs of Sudan, we rely on internal and diaspora experts to ensure that the future leaders who emerge value and respect one another as well as international standards and common values?
The Earl of Sandwich (CB)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, has been a consistent advocate for Sudan and is to be congratulated on bringing us the results of his recent visits. The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, mentioned that he and I were in Sudan a few years ago as part of a group that visited both the north and the south of the country. I am delighted to learn that the Inter-Parliamentary Union is supporting a visit by the group this September.
Sometimes human rights issues can dominate our debates, so the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, is right to stress some of the more positive aspects of the Sudanese scene. It is good to learn that Sudan is a country that still attracts a lot of attention in the UK. In the all-party group we meet regularly with representatives of the diaspora, besides our own diplomats and other visitors. I know that the Sudanese Government are now much more concerned to be listening and responding to criticism, not least because transparency on human rights has contributed to the lifting of US sanctions. However, the continuing injustice that distorts the political process, fetters the opposition and sustains war in at least three regions can hardly be overlooked.
I intend to focus on the forgotten east of Sudan, where a fragile peace agreement signed in 2006 is coming to an end. The refugee situation has changed since I visited the UNHCR camps for Eritreans and Ethiopians near El-Gadarif and Kassala back in the 1980s, but I know that it is still serious and that some of the same families are still there—rather like the Palestinians. Recently, a large group of donors was able to visit the Shagarab refugee camps and the Gergef reception centre on the border with Eritrea. The donors were able to speak with asylum seekers who had newly arrived and with refugees who have been in Sudan for decades. I am sorry to say that the UK was not represented except through the EU, but representatives from France, Germany and Norway were there.
According to the UNHCR, altogether Sudan hosts 379,000 refugees and asylum seekers, primarily from South Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Syria and Yemen, as well as internally displaced nationals. By May of this year, the UNHCR’s appeal to meet the needs of refugees in Sudan was only 14% funded, which is very low. I hope that the Minister can say that we have given generously to this appeal.
A large proportion of the refugees crossing into Sudan are escaping religious persecution and other human rights violations in Eritrea, many ending up in Europe and in this country. The change of government in Ethiopia has raised some hopes of improvement in Eritrea, but the situation is still bad. I can only summarise what the Mauritian human rights special rapporteur, Sheila Keetharuth, has recently recommended to the UN Human Rights Council. She calls on Eritrea to release all prisoners of conscience, including those in prison for religious beliefs, unconditionally, to put an immediate stop to arbitrary arrests and detention and to release immediately all those arbitrarily detained—more specifically children, the elderly and women.
The EU is hoping to put a brake on migrants crossing the Mediterranean by means of the Khartoum process, a project with which the UK has been closely associated, although we may well withdraw from it because of Brexit. As an all-party group we have already expressed doubts about this project, which sees Sudan, under its emergency law, harnessing one of the most feared government-sponsored militia, the Janjaweed, to back up the police, border guards and others attempting to catch traffickers. The Janjaweed have notoriously struck terror into the people of Darfur and elsewhere through rape, torture and murder. According to the Beja Congress, which has represented the semi-nomadic Beja people for many years, the Janjaweed have immunity granted directly by President Bashir, who is their commander-in-chief. It says:
“Victims who fled from the human trafficking gangs stated that the Janjaweed, after robbing them, deliberately abandoned them to [those] gangs. This means that the Janjaweed, in place of fighting the crime, are involved in it”.
The Beja Congress has its own defence force and receives arms from Eritrea. It also urges EU donors to think about the reasons that drive refugees north in the first place. It says that they,
“should solve the causes of the problems in the countries that export refugees by implementing in them democracy, human rights law and sustainable development, industrial plants and agricultural projects to open opportunities for young people to work in place of dying in the sea”.
In Sudan you can find some of the poorest places on earth and one of them is the region around Port Sudan. The best boast for the Government in Khartoum is development in those areas, which may be the only ultimate cure for migration.
Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, on securing this debate and thank him for giving me the opportunity to look at the conditions for women and women’s health in the Sudan on our visit.
The situation for women in Sudan has changed little in the 10 years since I was last there despite over 30% of parliamentarians being women, many occupying important positions, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin. The maternal mortality rate is around 300 per 100,000 live births. That is very high and has not reduced in the 20 years which have seen the maternal mortality rate in the rest of the world reduced by 40%. This is due to poor healthcare, early marriage and the complications of childbirth, all of which are made worse by the practice of FGM.
The fertility rate—that is, the family size—is above five and contraceptive use is only about 12% of the female population. Abortion is permitted only in cases of rape, incest or to save a woman’s life—that is if they can get anywhere near a hospital, which is unlikely. Many women will die from unsafe abortion as a result. Sudan is a bleak place for women. Only one-third of Sudan’s women access secondary education.
The President, however, produced a maternal health strategy and showed it to us when we were there. The preamble is worth reading. It says:
“Mothers are the source of life/mankind, and our children are the country’s future. No nation will prosper if it does not place their health and welfare at the heart of its development agenda”.
However, as an enthusiast of free choice for women, I found no mention in this strategy of any family planning to be made available, which the World Bank and all development agencies now state is the single most effective way of promoting economic development in a country. I do not apologise for repeating this message: to empower women, they must be given power over their own bodies—and that means access to family planning. If women have free access to contraception they will have fewer children, and they and their children are more likely to access education and eventually contribute to their country’s wealth.
When we met Dr Faisal Hassan Ibrahim, the representative of President Bashir, I broached this subject with him and was rather depressed to be told that: “Sudan is a very big country and needs many more people. Women are needed to have children”. He added that men could have four wives too, and that helped. In other words, women are breeding machines. The Government of Sudan should listen to the World Bank more often.
Finally, I commend the work of the Ahfad University for Women in Khartoum, which my noble friend Lady Uddin spoke about, and especially its work on maternal health. The obstetric hospital there, which we visited, is attached to the university’s faculty of medicine and displayed really excellent modern practices—with protocols such as we have here—but in grossly overcrowded conditions. Women in labour had to share beds; there were at least two to a bed, which must have been quite an experience. The men were in the yard outside and were called in when their women gave birth; there was no room for partners anywhere near the obstetric ward. The training which students receive there is excellent and our NHS benefits hugely from over 6,000 Sudan-trained doctors practising over here. This made me rather ashamed because Sudan needs its doctors desperately—much more than we do.
Therefore, what can our Governmen do to promote maternal health and family planning in Sudan by using the Ahfad University, which is respected all over the world? A new private hospital is planned, but more accessible facilities for women’s health are needed, countrywide. There needs to be a network through which they can get treatment and family planning. I welcome DfID’s emphasis on maternal health and family planning and congratulate it on that. However, could this please be extended and increased to the Sudan as we loosen sanctions and try to encourage that wonderful country?
Lord Hussain (LD)
I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, for securing this debate, for taking a keen interest in Sudan and for helping to establish the APPG on Sudan. His continued work in that country is highly appreciated.
I have visited the country twice in the last few years. The first time that I went, I knew very little about it and was encouraged by some Members of this House to attend a conference at the University of Khartoum. The information available at the time from the Foreign Office was not very encouraging: British citizens were advised not to make trips there unless they were necessary. The only information I could rely on was from Members who spoke about the country in the House of Lords. In many cases, this was very terrifying. From their contributions, I believed that the army ran the country, one would find armoured vehicles and armed men all around the streets, women had absolutely no rights, and so on. I landed in Khartoum about three years ago with a very dark picture. However, from the outset, at the airport, in immigration and at the hotel, I saw men and women working side by side. That was surprising for me, against the backdrop of the information I had gone with.
In the university where the conference was held, I again saw no distinction between men and women working at all levels. Subsequently we met many Ministers. I particularly wanted to visit the downtown market, to see how ordinary people live in Khartoum, and it was a pleasant surprise not to see much difference between it and other Arab or Muslim countries. There were many cultural similarities, and I could have taken it for Cairo, say. Women were working alongside men in all aspects of life.
We went on to learn more about the country—for example, that when South Sudan separated from Sudan it took 70% or more of the oil revenue, leaving Sudan with very little of its major source of income and little to run the country with. It is no wonder that we hear that Sudan is suffering from poverty.
The international community supports the liberation of South Sudan; that is what the people chose in a referendum and it is proper and fine. I wish it had happened in other parts of the world too, particularly where I was born—Kashmir is still waiting for the United Nations to implement its resolutions—but I am of course glad that South Sudan is to get its UN resolutions implemented in the end. In the case of Sudan, not only were the UN resolutions implemented—South Sudan got its independence—but it was clobbered with economic sanctions. Once you have had 70% of your oil revenues taken from you there is nothing much left to run the country, and these sanctions do not help at all.
I am running out of time and need to move on to my next visit, when I accompanied the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, and other parliamentarians on a trip that included Darfur. When we met the UNAMID officers in Darfur—I may have mentioned this previously—I asked them about the aerial bombardment that we often hear about in this House, and the answer was that in the past year two incidents had been reported to the United Nations forces. I asked what had happened. They said that they could not get much information. I asked them to explain further, and they replied that when they went to the first incident that was reported they found a hole in the ground. They could not establish what had made the hole. In the second case, they went down to a road where they had been told that an incident had occurred and were told that no, it was not here, it was a few miles in the other direction, and so on. Eventually, the officers had returned with no evidence of any bombardment.
That raises a big question about what to believe when people tell us things about countries that we have not visited. When you visit a country it makes a great difference, and I suggest that, if they have not already done so, noble Lords should visit Sudan at their earliest opportunity.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, for initiating this debate on Sudan, a country where more than one-third of the population still lives in poverty. As I have no doubt the Minister will remind us, the UK is an important donor, giving £50 million each year that is focused on humanitarian assistance to over 500,000 internally displaced people and South Sudanese refugees.
The Minister said at the end of last year that the Government continue to work with the international community to reform the approach to long-term displaced persons in Darfur. What is the Minister’s assessment of that process in achieving collaboration internationally?
On human rights in Sudan, Amnesty International has said:
“The rights to freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly were arbitrarily restricted”,
and that there are,
“widespread violations of international humanitarian and human rights law”.
The Government have argued—we have heard it in this debate—that the UK-Sudan Strategic Dialogue represents a shift from the stick to the carrot, and that real change in Sudan could come only through engagement, a point reinforced by the noble Lord, Lord Luce. Clearly, the Government of Sudan are gaining a great deal of credibility from these high-level ministerial exchanges. Can the Minister provide us with a specific example of where such engagement from our Government has brought about a positive change from their Sudanese counterpart?
After the fourth session of the strategic dialogue in October last year, agreement was reached on the clear steps that the Government of Sudan would take to address human rights issues. In relation to the five key issues of humanitarian access to conflict-afflicted regions, non-interference in South Sudan and maintaining the Government’s cessation of hostilities in Darfur and the Two Areas, is the Minister satisfied that progress continues to be made? The UK also raised specific issues, including sexual and gender-based violence, freedom of religion or belief, freedom of expression and the convention against torture. At the time, the Minister also stated that corruption was discussed. Sudan currently ranks 170th out of 176 on the Transparency International corruption index.
Following April’s fifth meeting of the strategic dialogue, the communiqué stressed trade and investment. Trade promotion in Sudan must be paired with macroeconomic reforms to ensure that any growth dividend is evenly shared, and it must not result in a watering down of human rights concerns. What steps will the Government take to ensure that such reforms are implemented to prevent the benefits of this trade going solely to the narrow elite that has ruled the country for almost 30 years?
I agree totally with the noble Lord, Lord Luce, that it is important that we support civil society. It is critical to sustaining meaningful peace and dialogue for the future, and this should be the focus of UK policy in Sudan. UK aid has funded a £1 million British Council project to strengthen,
“cultural and educational development by building skills and capacity and by creating new opportunities and connections with the UK”.
The UK Government, through the Chevening scholarships,
“enables students to pursue postgraduate study at UK higher education institutions”.
Like the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, I would particularly like to know how those students are selected. We have been supporting only 14 students, who are mainly from Khartoum. Will the Government commit to expanding the programme and ensure that the students are drawn from a much wider group of the population, particularly from Darfur and the Two Areas of eastern Sudan?
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I join all noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Sheikh for tabling this important debate. I pay tribute to him for his continuing support for the development of relations between the United Kingdom and Sudan. I am pleased that he, together with other noble Lords, had a productive and constructive visit to Sudan, and I put on the record the thanks of Her Majesty’s Government to the APPG for its report and recommendations on this matter.
I shall now address the various questions raised by noble Lords in what has been a debate of hope and optimism, as well as one of challenge and realism. I turn, first, to the cultural and educational ties between our countries. Noble Lords have alluded to the population of Sudan. The median age in Sudan is under 20, more than half the population are under the age of 24, and nearly 40% are younger than 15. Therefore, picking up on a point raised by my noble friend Lord Sheik and others, education is vital if the country is to fulfil its full potential. The noble Baronesses, Lady Tonge and Lady Uddin, mentioned the importance of gender equality in education and opportunities for girls in particular. They and all noble Lords will be aware of the priority that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has laid on 12 years of quality education, which we continue to emphasise not just in our bilateral engagement with Sudan but across the world. That is why the British Council also runs projects that now train 4,600 teachers, improving the standards across science, maths and English of 6,500 teachers, and providing English textbooks at all levels in schools across the country.
In higher education, we provide opportunities for Sudan’s brightest young people to stretch themselves at world-class British universities. As was acknowledged by my noble friend Lord Sheikh and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office provides funding for Chevening scholarship programmes. The number of scholarships offered each year has tripled since 2014. The specific issue of numbers was raised, but in recent years the trajectory has been upward, and that will continue. More generally, the British Council encourages educational and scientific co-operation between Sudan and the UK, and promotes cultural ties through projects that include supporting the digitisation of Sudanese historical records, and refurbishing museums. That adds to growing stability in the country.
My noble friend Lord Sheikh raised the important issue of trade. Our bilateral trade is worth in the region of £90 million. I assure him that we are actively considering the best way to support business links between the UK and Sudan, and encouraging Sudan to make improvements to the business and regulatory environment to promote inward investment and improve Sudan’s economy. We welcome active contributions and further ideas from noble Lords, of course.
Let me be clear, however, that the UK is not prioritising trade over human rights, a subject raised by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Chidgey. As the Human Rights Minister at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, I can say that improving human rights in Sudan continues to be a key priority of the UK’s bilateral engagement. Our human rights priorities will include respect for the rule of law, which will further people’s rights—especially women’s, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge—and encourage investment. We believe strongly that trade can help to open up closed-off political and economic systems, and thereby improve human rights through the creation of wider employment opportunities.
I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that we are very much committed on technical support for economic reforms in Sudan. That was discussed in detail at the fifth round of the UK-Sudan Strategic Dialogue in April, which I know that all noble Lords welcomed. The UK has been working with international partners to galvanise support to help Sudan commit to, and deliver, macroeconomic reforms while simultaneously managing the impact on the poorest in society.
In the immediate term, we are concerned at the increasingly acute economic issues that Sudan faces, including shortages of fuel, which we predict will affect the 2018 harvest. Concern about that was expressed by several noble Lords. We will of course continue to work with the Government of Sudan on the necessary macroeconomic reforms and wider reform programme. Our other main priorities in our engagement with Sudan are helping to resolve its conflict and addressing human rights concerns.
The challenges in Darfur were raised by the noble Lords, Lord Chidgey and Lord Hussain, among others. The security situation there remains fragile despite a recent reduction in fighting between government forces and armed movements. We remain concerned by continuing reports of clashes between the Sudan Liberation Army–Abdel Wahid—and government forces. I assure noble Lords that we continue to raise the matter bilaterally with Sudan, because it is important to recognise—as we all do—that civilians continue to bear the brunt of this appalling violence. Many have been killed, villages have been burned and it is estimated that nearly 9,000 have been internally displaced. The joint UN-African Union mission in Darfur is a key focus for that, and it is unacceptable that its humanitarian actors have been prevented from accessing affected populations.
We all acknowledge that there is no military solution to the conflict. The UK, alongside our troika partners—the United States and Norway—calls on all parties to immediately cease military action. The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, mentioned Jebel Marra in this respect. We believe that all parties should engage meaningfully with the peace process. We are also working with international partners to provide humanitarian assistance to Darfur.
The noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, raised the issue of South Sudan and Sudan’s role in the peace process. We welcome Sudan’s role in hosting the latest round of talks in Khartoum and its constructive role within the region. We have taken note of the agreement.
The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, raised the issue of East Sudan. I can assure him that we have not forgotten the people of the east, which remains a major challenge. DfID support is now focused on providing water infrastructure, which will benefit both the local communities and the refugee population that he mentioned, and we continue to provide wider humanitarian assistance.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, also raised the issue of South Sudanese refugees. I acknowledge the support Sudan has provided in this regard, both through the opening of humanitarian corridors and allowing those fleeing from that conflict to seek shelter, in the northern regions in particular.
On the humanitarian situation, in 2018 the number of people in need of humanitarian aid in Sudan has risen to over 7 million, and nearly 2 million are internally displaced in Darfur. Sudan is also providing shelter, as I have said, to many South Sudanese refugees. The UK is an important donor, and last year we provided nearly £60 million to help communities to meet their basic needs and to sustain their livelihoods and resilience to crisis. I shall write to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, on the issue of the UNHCR and how much we have given, but we remain one of the largest contributors to the Sudan humanitarian fund.
The noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, raised the important issue of women’s health. As she may be aware, through DfID the UK continues to provide support to women and their families. We reached over 600,000 women, children and girls last year with nutrition and food interventions. She will be pleased to learn that we also fund projects to end the practice of FGM.
The UN’s peacekeeping mission in Darfur continues to make progress and to support the gradual reconfiguration of its mission. The noble Lords, Lord Sheikh and Lord Chidgey, mentioned extremism. Countering extremism will continue to figure in our strategic dialogue. Human rights will also be primarily focused on, including the issues of freedom of religion, freedom of expression and sexual and gender based violence. This was mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Luce and Lord Collins.
We have seen real progress. For example, the case of Nora Hussein, has been a positive example. Her death sentence has been overturned, which we all welcome. The noble Lords, Lord Chidgey and Lord Collins, referred to positive influences, and that is one of them. We also welcome the release of Dr Ibrahim.
Specific questions of detail were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, on the issues of equality and ensuring greater support for women and girls. I can assure her that that remains a key priority for the Government.
The noble Lord, Lord Luce, raised the issue of the 2020 elections. We agree that these will be a critical milestone in Sudan’s reform process. Former President Mbeki, who leads the AU’s peace process, is focused on enabling the opposition to participate in a fair way. The UK expects, and will continue to lobby for, monitoring arrangements to be a part of this process.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Tonge and Lady Uddin, rightly focused on many issues around girls’ education and health and on ensuring protection for women under the rule of law. I assure them, as the Prime Minister’s special representative on preventing sexual violence in conflict situations, we will continue to encourage Sudan to ratify the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women, and we will continue to employ a greater level of support for equality in all levels of education.
This has been a constructive and positive debate. Too often when we draw attention to different parts of the world there is great negativity and no recognition of the positive steps that have been achieved. All contributions from noble Lords have underlined the importance of progress and the need to be vigilant in ensuring that progress continues to be made. The UK welcomed the US decision last year to permanently lift economic sanctions. However, debt relief can only realistically be expected to come after Sudan demonstrates real evidence of macroeconomic reform. The UK is now assessing whether there is sufficient commitment by the Sudanese Government to make the necessary reforms. We will continue to champion this through dialogue, including an emphasis on women’s rights.
I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to work constructively on progress in Sudan. We will continue to observe constructive engagement in all areas, which can, over time, lead to greater security, stability and prosperity for all Sudanese people.
Health: Stroke Survivors
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Lingfield
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to improve the provision of long-term rehabilitation for stroke survivors.
Lord Lingfield (Con)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords and the Minister for giving up time for this debate. I remind your Lordships of my registered interest as the chairman of the stroke charity ARNI, Action for Rehabilitation from Neurological Injury.
We know that in the UK over 150,000 people have a stroke annually. But happily, people do not die nearly so often from stroke as they used to. In fact, some 85% of those who suffer a stroke survive it. They do so because: first, there is a greater recognition out there of what a stroke looks like, and the importance of immediately calling the emergency services; secondly, ambulances get stroke victims to hospital more quickly; and thirdly, when they are there, hyper-acute stroke units can carry out rapid diagnoses, first-class scanning and excellent treatment.
The net result of this upsurge in the welcome ability to save lives is that we have a very large number of stroke survivors. In this country, some 1.2 million people are living with the effects of stroke at any one time. It is the biggest disabler of all. It is those people whom I want to discuss this afternoon for, if the clinical treatment of stroke patients has been a great success story, sadly, helping them to live as near normally as possible afterwards has not been so.
Rehabilitation starts typically with physiotherapy and, if required, speech therapy. It begins for most people in hospital; they then continue as out-patients or receive treatment at home, but it is very much time limited. The health watchdog, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, has produced guidelines based on recommendations by the Royal Society of Physicians, which suggest that patients should receive 45 minutes of each therapy that they need every weekday, for as long as their disabilities require it. This is a huge ask of course but, typically, we are told that stroke survivors average the equivalent of just 16 minutes per day of physiotherapy, 12 minutes of occupational therapy and 12 of speech therapy. Moreover, on leaving hospital, many have to wait six weeks before community therapy, such as it is, is initiated. The Stroke Association says that, at this stage, many are forced to pay for private care.
One-quarter of all strokes in the United Kingdom happen to people of working age, and one-fifth of these are under 45. Stroke therefore reduces employment prospects for the future for its sufferers, with all that means for society. It has a knock-on effect for family and friends involved in a patient’s care and who are usually, of course, unpaid in this role. The estimated aggregate costs of stroke are a substantial £25 billion. There is still a commonly held misconception, however, that people cannot significantly recover from the effects of having a stroke and that they are stuck with whatever mobility they have after hospitalisation and its consequent physiotherapy for the rest of their lives. However, well-established evidence shows that neuroplasticity of the brain can be utilised to augment recovery, leading to better function and action control even some years after the stroke has happened.
Stroke-specific physical training, applied at home, which targets upper and lower limb deficits can be the key to a better quality of life and for readmission to employment. In short, active approaches where patients are highly involved in their own rehabilitation and do many hundreds, sometimes thousands, of specific repetitive actions can lead to positive neural adaptation, whereas those where survivors are merely the recipients of predominantly traditional therapy are much less likely to do so.
It is precisely these active interventions which my own stroke charity, ARNI, does so well and with such heartening results. ARNI was created in 2001 to ensure that there is a growing body of qualified exercise instructors available for stroke survivors. They go into homes to help people to rehabilitate and we now have more than 100 therapists and professional instructors across the country, many of them running group classes as well.
This kind of rehabilitation works with people of all ages, including those whose strokes happened some years before. Here is the testimony of John Scrivener, an elderly former paratrooper who suffered a massive stroke in 2012, losing the use of his left arm and leg. Two years later he was introduced to ARNI’s exercise techniques at which he works hard and regularly with his instructor. He says:
“I can now go up and down awkward steps with no handrails. I have no difficulty in going into strange environments and I can even get up unaided from the floor. I am astonished by the changes that have made such a difference to my life”.
The broadcaster Andrew Marr has said publicly and often how ARNI’s exercise regime helped him enormously after his own stroke and gave him better gait, balance, grip and strength, the better to be able to cope with his arduous public life.
Last year I saw Harry Baker, then 16 years of age, start his rehabilitation with my charity. He had significant limitations and could hardly lift his hand. A year later, after determined and repetitive special exercises, he has improved so much that he has had the confidence to join a martial arts class, where I witnessed his agile kicking and dextrous handling of a football. The appalling and depressing effects of a stroke, probably the result of a sports injury, were felt deeply by this teenager whose social life was reduced to zero. Normal life beckons for him once again.
One simple ARNI technique reported at the World Stroke Congress has improved the lives of hundreds of patients and saved many thousands of pounds in public funds. It is called “off the floor” and enables stroke-impaired patients to get up from a fall by themselves. Typically, before learning it, many would lie immobile for hours or, often with huge embarrassment, had to rely on calling 999 for paramedics to help get them back up.
Stroke survivors rely on charities like my own for this kind of long-term rehabilitation because it is not available from any other sources. I pay tribute to the Stroke Association, which last year began its £2 million project of Life After Stroke grants, having been sponsored as the Royal Mail’s charity of the year. These grants of £300 each can enable longer-term rehabilitation such as that which I have mentioned to take place. We badly need two things: first, the recognition that disabilities caused by stroke can be much improved by techniques such as those I have described, and secondly, grants from public funds to make this happen. As always, such investment will save money even in the medium term by reducing the number of people who are expensively re-hospitalised by injury or physical decline, by reducing their reliance on the ambulance service, and by reducing the burden on carers. Above all, it will help to give survivors of all ages back the dignity of being able to live more normal lives physically and socially, and even the ability to return to the world of work.
We are extremely good at dealing with the immediate effects of stroke, but now we must deal just as effectively with its long-term effects as well.
Baroness Coussins (CB)
My Lords, I declare an interest as co-chair of the All-Party Group on Modern Languages. I quite understand if, at this point, other noble Lords wonder if I have wandered into the wrong debate, but please bear with me as I hope to convince noble Lords that there is an important link between the recovery of stroke victims and languages. This is borne out by robust research and has the potential to bring significant benefits to patients, as well as leading to some cost-effective decisions for the NHS.
In January this year, the All-Party Group on Modern Languages heard from a panel of experts on the cognitive benefits of learning a second or subsequent language. The panel comprised, among others, the neuroscientist Dr Thomas Bak of Edinburgh University, who is president of the cognitive disorders research group of the World Federation of Neurology. His main clinical research interest is the relationship between language, cognition and the brain. He was accompanied by Dr Dina Mehmedbegovic from University College London’s Institute of Education. She is developing interdisciplinary work with neuroscientist colleagues to provide a broader evidence base for advocating the cognitive benefits of lifelong language learning.
The bottom line is that people who speak more than one language recover cognitively from strokes more successfully than those who do not. In Dr Bak’s study of 2015:
“The percentage of patients with intact cognitive functions post stroke was more than twice as high in bilinguals than in monolinguals”,
and,
“bilingualism emerged as an independent predictor of poststroke cognitive impairment”.
For the sake of clarity, I emphasise—with Dr Bak’s authority—that the word “bilingual” in this context means simply having the ability to communicate, not having a perfect command of a language. His detailed findings included that 40.5% of bilinguals had normal cognitive functions after a stroke, compared to only 19.6% of monolinguals. Looking at that the other way round, he found that that only 49% of bilinguals had cognitive impairment after a stroke, compared with 77.7% of monolinguals. This research was reported in 2015 in the American Stroke Association journal. A further significant finding was that late acquisition of another language has a similar protective effect to early acquisition. It is never too late to start learning another language in order to benefit in this way.
Research has also examined the impact which learning and using more than one language had on delaying the onset of Alzheimer’s and other forms of dementia, and found that it can indeed cause a delay of four to five years, including for vascular dementia, which is the type caused by strokes. Similarly with aphasia, a common language disorder caused by brain damage such as stroke, bilingualism leads to less severe impairment and better recovery. This finding was reported by Paplikar et al earlier in 2018. Dr Bak is involved in a project in Scotland, in partnership with Alzheimer Scotland and Edinburgh University, and supported by an ESRC grant. It is called Lingo Flamingo, and teaches languages to Alzheimer’s sufferers to improve their cognitive resilience.
Will the Minister consider supporting a similar initiative in England and Wales for stroke survivors? Drs Bak and Mehmedbegovic argue that, by increasing multilingualism in the population, we could expect to reduce the incidence of dementia, saving billions of pounds. I understand that the current total cost of dementia care is around £26 billion a year. Exactly the same argument can be made for the long-term treatment of stroke survivors, and I hope that the Minister will agree to take this proposition back to the department.
As always in scientific research, there are some discrepancies in findings across different studies, but on this proposition—that learning and using more than one language improves long-term recovery after a stroke—there is now converging evidence from different studies, different populations, different countries and even different continents that supports the conclusions that I have highlighted. However, to transform the research findings into practical policy, we need to change the general attitude towards language learning in the UK. I am pleased to say that, following the APPG meeting that I referred to earlier, Nick Gibb, the Schools Minister, requested further details of the research for the Department for Education to consider. The DfE’s interest of course lies in the cognitive benefits of language learning for children, of which there are also plenty, although not for elaboration in today’s debate. However, the Minister here today will, I hope, be sufficiently interested and intrigued by my contribution also to want to follow up this innovative research and find out more.
Dr Bak says that,
“promoting language learning and use is one of the cheapest, simplest and most effective means of improving cognitive functions across all ages”,
and he points out that the work of the Lingo Flamingo project is scalable, so if funds were available for a pilot project for stroke survivors, he could have it up and running within months. This would be a fast and measurable initiative. Is the Minister tempted to find out more and would he like me to arrange a meeting for him with Dr Bak?
Baroness Barker (LD)
My Lords, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Lingfield, that it is an absolute joy to take part in this debate with him this afternoon.
Following on from the noble Baroness’s comments, I can recount that about 20 years ago a lady called Mary Anne MacLeod Trump woke up in a hospital ward in New York following a stroke. Most of her nurses thought that she was speaking gibberish, but she was very lucky because one of her nurses was Irish and knew that she was speaking Gaelic. In fact, Mrs Trump had been born on the island of Lewis in Scotland and, unlike her son, did not routinely speak gibberish—it was just the effects of a stroke—and she recovered. The noble Baroness is quite right.
The noble Lord, Lord Lingfield, set out for us the state of stroke care in England and Wales today. However, one point is so obvious that he did not make it: we have a national health service and, consequently, we are in a uniquely good place to gather information about the detection, diagnosis and treatment of stroke and about people’s recovery from it. That is something that we often overlook but it is very important. Just in the last 10 years or so, the work that the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, has done in London in reorganising stroke services has had a measurable effect. Our National Health Service is able to measure, at scale, the effectiveness of new thrombolytic or clot-busting drugs as they come in. That is why we have a real forward steal on the rest of the world in this highly complex area.
In another place back in December, MPs talked a lot about the development of mechanical thrombectomy —I am pleased that I got that out; it is not the easiest word to say. It is a marvellous step forward in the acute treatment of stroke. The ability of surgeons to remove clots and stop further neurological damage makes an immense difference to patients and their recovery.
We are, unfortunately, able to have a 24 hours a day, seven days a week, service in only very few places. Like the noble Lord, I am very lucky to be living up the road from St George’s Hospital: we are okay. Other places are not. The ambition, surely, ought to be to make that service available at specialist neurological centres around the whole country, and easily accessible to the majority of the population as soon as possible.
A particular problem with thrombectomy is that it requires the input of several different medical disciplines, specifically surgeons and others who are not normally part of a stroke response unit. Far be it from me to accuse the NHS of territorialism, but getting surgeons to change their ways is not the easiest thing to do. I ask the Minister, therefore: will thrombectomy services be commissioned via specialist commissioning, and if the provision of the service requires redesign and redefinition—not just of the services but of the medical roles in the team—how that will happen? Does he believe, as I do, that STPs may well face a real battle to get so many people from different disciplines to change the way they work?
My understanding is that the department has not yet decided to refresh the stroke strategy; it is relying on the 2013 cardiovascular disease outcome strategy. Does the Minister believe that that is an adequate way for the department to require the NHS to look at some pretty significant changes among staff?
I also refer the Minister to the experience of some MPs who looked at provision in their local areas. They mentioned the tension between university hospitals and district general hospitals. It requires the might not just of NHS England but the department to look at this problem.
My next point is on research. We have one centre of excellence in research—certainly in thrombectomy—which I think is the University of East Anglia. It is one of several across Europe. I am a Liberal Democrat spokesperson and am therefore bound to ask what the Government are doing to make sure that, post Brexit, research and research collaboration continue? I know that the Royal Society is looking across the piece at the impact of Brexit on research, taking an unbiased and pragmatic view of it. I simply ask the Minister to tell us how the Government will keep an eye on that.
My third observation is that in 2016 Stanford University reported remarkable results from a very small-scale study—about 16 patients—on the use of stem cell therapies. These are often considered to be wonder solutions to quite an array of neurological conditions. I would not go that far: there is a lot to be done by neuroscientists before they realise the potential of stem cell therapy in all sorts of conditions, but principally such neurological diseases as Parkinson’s and possibly Alzheimer’s. If and when those trials are replicated on a larger scale and get to a further stage, where they might lead to some form of therapy, will the NHS build on its track record of work in stroke treatment by taking advantage of such developments?
On the question of rehabilitation, much of what the noble Lord, Lord Lingfield, said pointed to a system in which we have highly skilled staff but not enough of them. We have highly skilled therapists, physiotherapists and nurses—I have been in awe of the ones I have had to deal with—but we need to enable them to impart information first to care workers and secondly to family members, who are there in that golden six-week gap in which recovery can be advanced if people know what to do. To what extent are we asking our NHS acute staff, as part of their duty of care, to pass on information to carers to make sure that they can be there to assist and improvise with things which work?
What do the Government intend to do about the collection of data on post-acute service provision as part of the overall stroke strategy? The bulk of stroke recovery happens in the weeks and months afterwards.
The difference between acute provision and community provision would be that acute provision will help you deal with a physical deficiency, and a community service will help you deal with a lack of confidence. For most people, life after a stroke means living with a lifelong lack of confidence, but that can be aided, helped and treated.
We have done a lot in this country of which we should be proud, but with clever thinking we could do a lot more.
Baroness Wheeler (Lab)
My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord on securing this debate and on his informative speech. This is a key opportunity to focus on rehabilitation—that is, life after stroke. Like me, he is a strong admirer and supporter of the Stroke Association on stroke research, prevention, treatment, care and support. As usual, I am grateful for its briefing in support of this debate and for the key background documentation from the Lords Library.
I have spoken on a number of occasions about the importance of renewing and updating the 10-year national stroke strategy, which ran out last year. It has taken time but the strong and determined national campaign for this has resulted in the association and others from across the healthcare system now working closely with NHS England on a national plan for stroke.
There is no doubt that, despite the huge progress in the reorganisation of acute stroke care services as a result of the 2007 strategy, post-hospital support, rehabilitation and ongoing long-term community support for stroke survivors is an area that has seen least progress. It is vital that this be a declared ambition of the new plan and given urgent priority. Can the Minister update the House of progress on the national plan and a timeframe for its development and publication?
As we have heard, stroke is the fourth-largest single cause of death in the UK and is the largest cause of long-term disability. It results in over half of all stroke survivors having some form of disability. With major strokes disability is often profound and severe and, in this context, perhaps I may digress slightly and mention haemorrhagic stroke. Some 85% of strokes are ischemic strokes. Only 15% are brain haemorrhages and there is currently no acute treatment for them, despite their being associated with the most serious strokes and the worst patient outcomes. It is a significantly underfunded area of research into prevention, treatment and rehabilitation and I make a special plea for the Minister to look at this issue.
It is relevant to consideration of whole care pathways and long-term support for stroke survivors, especially those with the severe disabilities that result from a brain haemorrhage. It is also relevant to me as my partner is hemiplegic as a result of a major haemorrhage 10 years ago. He benefited from the early days of the FAST campaign and the successful reorganisation of London stroke services, which was referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. This meant that he received the emergency and stabilising care and treatment in hospital he needed within the four-hour period. Ten years on, I am pleased to say that he has a very good quality of life, lives well and is a part of the community. I single out four key basics that have led to that outcome for him.
The first is a good, reliable package of personal care, including washing and dressing, and a domiciliary agency that, overall, provides a good service with a regular team of care workers who we both know and trust. The second is a strong and active connectivity through the local community centre, with its excellent stroke support group, and other voluntary sector support. The importance of staying in touch in keeping well cannot be overemphasised as the key to rehabilitation. The third is weekly assisted disability exercise support through a local charity, which helps maintain his limited walking ability. It is not physio but movement exercises by trained assistants. Fourthly, he has the home adaptations and the disability aids he needs, such as a profile bed and splints, plus a power wheelchair, which means that he can get out and about locally on his own. I also add to the list his amazing assistance dog, who has made such a huge contribution to his mobility, independence and confidence, and pay tribute to the charity Canine Partners for its work in training such dogs and supporting disabled people in this way.
Of course, many other elements are involved in supported care at home, such as GP and primary care support, but the current support available is under huge pressure, as noble Lords have pointed out. We know that it is medical and reactive rather than proactive and focused on rehabilitation and staying well—on wellness rather than illness, as the Committee on the Long-term Sustainability of the NHS put it.
The noble Lord, Lord Lingfield, cited the Royal College of Physicians national guidance 2016 as the gold standard. It calls for stroke survivors to have,
“at least 45 minutes of each appropriate therapy … for as long as they are willing and capable of participating and showing measurable benefit”.
Hospital patients typically receive only one-third of that: the equivalent of 16 minutes a day of physio, 16 minutes a day of occupational therapy and 12 minutes a day of speech therapy. We know that, in the community, those therapies mostly have to be self-funded or obtained in the private sector.
The NHS RightCare Pathway included in the Library pack cites earlier RCP guidelines on what should be expected of NHS commissioners, which are clear and unequivocal. The guidelines stress:
“Commissioning organisations should ensure that their commissioning portfolio includes the whole stroke pathway from prevention (including neurovascular services) through acute care, early rehabilitation, secondary prevention, early supported discharge, community rehabilitation, systematic follow-up, palliative care and long-term support”.
It is vital that more CCGs and the STPs commission services that meet what is set out in the guidance. I should like the Minister to respond to that.
As all speakers have stressed, stroke is a recoverable condition. Many stroke survivors see improvements physically, communicatively and cognitively for months and years afterwards. The often-repeated adage that I heard when my partner first had a stroke—sadly, from both the public and some professionals—was that stroke improvements will not take place after two years. That is wrong. Improvements can and do happen with the right motivation, support and help along the care pathway.
I ask the Minister some questions on this issue. First, will he comment on the large regional variations in the availability and quality of community services for strokes shown in the latest national stroke audit? Secondly, will he comment on the unacceptably high waiting times for starting speech and language therapy post hospital—two months in some of the worst performing areas? Thirdly, will he comment on the 12-week waiting time for psychological support for stroke survivors across the country—up to five months in some areas, when the target is two weeks? Fourthly, will he comment on the action being taken to deal with CCGs which, despite the strong national guidance, are not commissioning ESD to provide intensive, multidisciplinary stroke-specialised rehabilitation and support for patients, carers and families? Forty per cent of patients should be eligible for this, but do not receive it. These are key questions, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.
It is small wonder that 45% of stroke survivors say that they feel abandoned when they get home from hospital, lacking in confidence, information and support. I can certainly relate to that. Fifty-one year-old Philippa Haslehurst, who had a stroke four years ago, received just two NHS sessions of physiotherapy and occupational therapy before having to pay for private treatment. She said:
“I felt like after a couple of rehabilitation sessions, the NHS had wiped its hands of me. I had made hardly any progress and I was still dealing with the debilitating after-effects of my stroke. If it wasn’t for private physio, I wouldn’t be walking now, let alone be back at work. I believe physio saved me”.
I also ask the Minister about the personalised care plans that stroke survivors are supposed to receive for their ongoing post-hospital treatment, care and support, and the findings of the recent Neurological Alliance survey that over 70% of patients are not offered one. Surely this should go hand in hand with the ESD plans for personal and domiciliary care support and generally to ensure that patients are discharged into a safe environment. Can the Minister also explain what action is being taken to ensure that all CCGs commission the six-month post-hospital review of stroke survivors’ progress and problems? Less than a third of stroke survivors receive this review and only half of all CCGs actually commission it. NHS RightCare guidance includes follow-up annual reviews, which are obviously needed if a patient’s progress is to be monitored effectively.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, said, one of the key issues arising from this debate is the lack of post acute-stroke data in comparison with that for acute care. We need strong and consistent data on the provision of the different types of therapy, treatment and rehabilitation as well as on measurable patient outcomes; its lack is seriously hampering progress in this area. Can the Minister outline what work is being done and will the recommendations in the national stroke plan include ensuring that this key aspect is addressed?
This has been an excellent, thoughtful and wide-ranging debate, despite having few contributors, while we wait for the national stroke plan to be finalised and for the publication of the social care Green Paper, now promised for the autumn. I hope that the Government will recognise that prioritising effective rehabilitation for stroke survivors will achieve significant long-term savings across the health and social care system as well as being of huge benefit to stroke survivors themselves.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord O’Shaughnessy) (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Lingfield on securing this debate. As the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, has just pointed out, it has been short but sweet—rather, we have had a small cast list but a high quality of output. The experience of the noble Baroness and that of her partner has been invaluable, while the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, asked some searching questions, which I shall attempt to answer. The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, will be amused to learn that in my briefing it states of her, “Does not normally ask health questions”. I am absolutely delighted that she is here, because hers is a perspective that we have not had before. I hope that it is not the last time that we see her taking part in a debate of this kind, and I shall come to the very interesting ideas that she mentioned. Along with other noble Lords, I recognise and applaud the work of charities like ARNI, while my noble friend also referred to the Stroke Association, Canine Partners and others. They make a valid and vital contribution to care in this area.
We have talked about the impact of stroke. In England some 80,000 people a year are being admitted to hospital. We also know about the impact that strokes can have not only on the lives of sufferers themselves, but also on their families, friends and carers. The statistic that stroke leaves half of those affected with a disability is a sobering one. We know also that the difficulties are not just physical. As we have discussed, they include communication difficulties, psychological cognitive fatigue and others. Indeed, stroke is the leading cause of complex disability, as well as the fourth largest cause of death, which is why it has quite rightly been the focus of successive Governments.
It is worth saying that major improvements have been made in stroke prevention, treatment and outcomes since the publication of the 2007 strategy, for which the then Labour Government deserve much credit. I shall highlight one or two of those outcomes, because they highlight some of the questions which have been asked. Over the past 20 years, the 30-day mortality rate has dropped from 30% to 13.5% in 2015-16. There is now better compliance with the occupational therapy standards, from 56% to 83%, while physiotherapy standards have risen, along with speech and language therapy. However, it is notable that even with speech and language therapy, where compliance has doubled, it remains at less than 50%, which goes to the heart of some of the points about variations in provision which noble Lords have pointed out. While improvements have been made, it is clear that a lot more needs to be done.
As several noble Lords mentioned, one way that we can improve rehabilitation is to get the care right in the first place. The noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Wheeler, mentioned mechanical thrombectomy, which is highly effective at preventing severe disability. The statistics are interesting: for every 100 patients treated, 38 will experience a less disabled outcome than with the best medical management—an extraordinary improvement—with 20 more achieving functional independence. Having national coverage is clearly important, and I will come on to how we try to achieve that.
The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, talked about how her partner had benefited from Public Health England’s Act Fast campaign. That is reducing the amount of time between someone having a stroke and arriving at hospital. The campaign has been going for about nine years now, during which 5,365 fewer people have become disabled as a result of a stroke, saving the equivalent of 12,200 quality-adjusted life years. This is quite an achievement for a public health campaign. The third area on the acute side where big improvements have been made, and which noble Lords have spoken about, is the centralisation of services, including hyper-acute stroke services. The noble Baroness mentioned the work which our colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, did in London. Because of that, a significantly higher proportion of patients are receiving care compliant with the guidelines and processes. That alone has delivered a 5% relative reduction in mortality at 90 days, another significant improvement.
Those things are at the acute end, but the topic for today is rehabilitation. As has been mentioned, there are over 1 million stroke survivors. Not only do half of those have a disability but half are also living with four or more co-morbidities. The question is: how do we get their lives back on track? We know that rehabilitation delivers better outcomes, improves quality of life and reduces health inequality. It also provides good value for money; it is the right thing to do on every level. It is also important to approach this with an optimistic mind set. As noble Lords have pointed out, stroke can be a recoverable condition, with survivors continuing to improve for months after their stroke.
We know from stroke survivors and the charities that represent them, and we have heard today, that they need early and ongoing rehabilitation and support. The testimony of the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, and her partner brought this to life. This includes holistic reviews of progress; a personalised care and support plan which is regularly updated; the provision of information; the availability of the right therapies; and so on. This obviously has to happen in the acute setting but, more importantly, it needs to happen in the post-acute setting as well.
My noble friend Lord Lingfield and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, talked about the stroke working party guideline of 45 minutes, but they also said that that is being missed all too often. What are the Government doing about it? The governing document has been the strategy which began in 2007, which has now been replaced with the stroke programme board, established in March this year. It is chaired by the national medical director of NHS England and the CEO of the Stroke Association and is developing a costed stroke plan to address the challenges of prevention, service reconfiguration, optimising rehab services, workforce development and data. I do not have a date at this time, but I shall endeavour to write to the noble Baroness and other noble Lords with that.
The board is looking at some changes. It has been said, quite rightly, that there needs to be seven-day availability of the right workforce. We need to make sure that nurses, therapists and other medical staff are there round the clock. As we know, there is some silo thinking on clinical expertise in the NHS. As the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, pointed out, the availability of mechanical thrombectomy is hampered by a shortage not just of skilled neuroradiologists but of other trained consultants. Reconfiguration can deal with some of that, but we need to do more to deal with it at a national level.
Through the work of the programme board we intend, first, to include stroke-specific plans within workforce strategies and to support integration across care settings. Secondly, we will establish training pathways from other medical specialties to increase the interventional neuroradiology workforce. Thirdly, we will include experience in stroke medicine early on in the undergraduate curricula of foundation medical training programmes, to encourage early career choices to pursue stroke training.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Wheeler, also talked about the need for better data. That is absolutely right, and is happening in a couple of ways. First, a new national clinical audit of cardiovascular disease prevention in primary care is being instigated. Secondly, in reference to one question that was put, we are making sure that the research strategy of the NHS will address key evidence gaps in stroke, particularly around post-acute care. I shall certainly take away the suggestion by the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, about a specific type of stroke and the under-resourced or under-researched nature of it.
Much of the funding for research comes through the National Institute for Health Research—a domestic source, although this issue is international in scale. As for Brexit, following our exit from the European Union, we are looking to achieve participation in the next iteration—the successor programme to Horizon 2020. Third countries are already participating, so it is within our grasp, as was set out in the Government’s Collaboration on Science and Innovation: A Future Partnership Paper.
On commissioning, which was also mentioned, NHS RightCare: Stroke Pathway was published in October 2017 and is the governing document. We need to ensure that the guidance that includes information about early supported discharge and community provision is adhered to. I do not know what the mechanisms are by which we will improve compliance, some of which is quite good and some, frankly, too low. That is a topic of work for the programme board. I shall write to noble Lords with its ideas on how it intends to make that bite, so that there is CCG compliance in commissioning frameworks.
Finally, we need a different approach to rehabilitation, one that is collaborative and integrated across health, social care and, critically, the third sector. In addition to rehabilitation, stroke survivors need a very broad set of services, including spasticity services, psychology, orthoptics, pain and continence services. As we have also heard, stroke survivors often need help with housing adaptations.
We have, therefore, three goals to achieve this rehabilitation revolution. First, we must make sure that there is proper commissioning of stroke specialist rehabilitation of the required intensity seven days a week for stroke victims through their in-patient stay, as recommended by the clinical guidelines. That will be driven by NHS England. Secondly, we must ensure that stroke survivors have access, within 24 hours of discharge from hospital, to a stroke specialist rehabilitation service that can provide support for the early discharged patient at the same rehabilitation intensity as stroke unit care, seven days a week. Thirdly, we need to develop a national service specification for the structure and process of stroke specialist rehabilitation services provided immediately after discharge, including early supported discharge, that describes appropriate staffing levels and, critically, addresses rurality. We must not only set those guidelines but make sure that they are complied with.
I shall briefly answer questions where I have not yet had a chance to do so. My noble friend Lord Lingfield asked about grants from public funds to rehab charities. Local authorities do that kind of work through their social care function. I am not aware of what CCGs and the NHS itself do, but I will endeavour to find out what support is available.
The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, took us on a very interesting journey into the power of language, and second languages. I knew about its benefits for dementia sufferers, but not about its benefits for stroke sufferers. I shall certainly be happy to find out more about the scheme and whether we can help. It sounds like a fascinating idea; considering the annual cost of stroke, and what the cost of educating children in a second language at school would be, the cost-benefit analysis looks quite good. It is something to think about, and I am glad that my right honourable friend Nick Gibb is enthusiastic about it.
The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, asked about stem cell and gene therapies. It is a really good question. We have a fantastic network of biomedical research centres, funded by the National Institute for Health Research. I do not know if she has had the opportunity to visit any of them but I thoroughly recommend it. Sometimes we are a bit hard on ourselves in this country in asking ourselves whether we really have access to cutting-edge, world-leading therapies in cancer, stroke, cardiovascular, or whatever. This is where it happens—where the translation from lab to the clinical setting happens. People here are among the first in the world to get these therapies. I thoroughly recommend seeing that, and if the noble Baroness were to get in touch I would be delighted to recommend a suitable one. We have the opportunity to be involved in this field, and a good track record in it.
Finally, the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, asked several questions. I hope that I have responded to most of them. If I have not, I will of course follow up with a letter.
I close by once again thanking all noble Lords for their contributions. It has been a fascinating and useful debate. With the programme board in place, I think that we have the opportunity and the leadership to make sure that we improve stroke services. We are in the happy position of knowing what is necessary; now, we need to deliver it. I am sure that, working together, we can start to transform rehabilitation care so that it is of the intensity required and provides a lifeline to stroke sufferers.
Songbirds
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Earl of Caithness
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to counter the decline in songbird numbers and the threat that invasive non-native species pose to such birds.
The Earl of Caithness (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interests as listed in the register. As I cannot do it later, I thank all noble Lords who will be speaking. The fact there are so many is testimony to the importance of this matter.
I wish to highlight the plight of the UK’s often forgotten passerines, more commonly known as songbirds, or little brown jobs—LBJs—to the bird-watching community. We do not hear much about the problems faced by many of our LBJs, as they are not spoken of in the same hushed, reverent tones used to describe our “iconic” birds of prey, charismatic seabirds or enigmatic waders, wonderful though they are. LBJs are those that delight many of us on our back-garden feeders and nesting boxes and on farms or other landholdings. They range from the cheeky house sparrow—once a common sight wherever we chose to live in our cities, towns and countryside—and the glorious skylark with its uplifting song of pure liquid gold, immortalised by Shelley and Vaughan Williams, through to the suite of summer migrants, such as the nightingale and other warblers that fill many a wood, glade, marsh and reed bed with the glorious dawn chorus, the avian sound of spring and summer.
The numbers of many of our most cherished and emblematic songbirds have crashed or declined alarmingly in upland, farm and woodland landscapes since systematic records of their numbers began to be compiled in the late 1960s and early 1970s. As examples, house sparrows, song thrushes, skylarks, spotted flycatchers and corn buntings are all down between 50% and 90%, depending on the species. Worst of all, the turtle dove is almost certainly doomed to extinction, with 98% gone in less than two generations. Overall, our farmland bird populations have declined by 56% and our woodland birds by almost a quarter over this period.
Since the rapid decline in the 1980s, efforts have been made to arrest the trend. Over 70% of England’s farmland is under countryside stewardship schemes, 7.2 million hectares of UK land is managed to benefit wildlife, and the size of broadleaf woodlands is increasing. Hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on environmental stewardship agri-environment schemes, or AES, and woodland grants. This has been backed by millions of pounds of donations spent by NGOs and some tremendous work by farmers given freely. Given that, this debate should be celebrating a rise in the songbird population, but it is not. My noble friend will doubtless highlight some of the successes but he will be the first to agree that the songbird decline continues remorselessly, year on year. We must ask why this help has not delivered as expected.
Many of our farm and woodland ecosystems are currently unbalanced. In stark contrast, the results achieved by the Allerton Project—scientific research by the Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust over 25 years on a farm in Leicestershire—show a different and better way forward. Improving the habitat combined with good management, including sufficient all-year food supplies and targeted predator control, have not only allowed both the arable land and woodlands to be improved in condition, while remaining profitable, but benefited a whole range of wildlife, not just songbirds. The problem for farmers in England, in stark contrast to the more enlightened regime in Scotland, is that the current AES cover only habitat. The project has demonstrated conclusively that good management is needed as well.
In the absence of the apex predators, which mankind eliminated, it is our duty to intervene to maintain balanced ecosystems and accept responsibility for managing wildlife, just as we did successfully until the latter part of the 20th century. Such a policy still works well in other countries, and the Government and NGOs have recently employed it to good effect in South Georgia. The results of the project are a winning blueprint for farming, wildlife and the environment, and thus for us. Will my noble friend use this template when bringing forward proposals for the new farming regime that is needed soon?
In urban areas, our gardens are habitat havens for all-year resident LBJs, as well as for migratory and seasonal visitors. With the huge pressure for new homes, will the Government ensure that detrimental proposals such as the Mayor of London’s “grab a garden” for development planning guidelines, which have so little thought for wildlife, are blocked? While on planning, has my noble friend pressed MHCLG to impose a buffer zone of 400 yards against any new development around sites where species of conservation concern nest, to protect them from irresponsible humans, their dogs and especially cats? I have spoken twice recently about cats. I merely add that, of the 29 predators of songbirds, cats are the worst, killing about 55 million songbirds annually, but should be the easiest to control. I merely say that I thought my noble friend’s recent letter to me on this was peely-wally. There is scientific evidence that predation by cats is having a real impact on bird populations. The very least the Government should do is proactively support the efforts of charities such as SongBird Survival, which is working to mitigate it.
I welcome and have encouraged the planting of more broadleaf woodlands. However, as Robbie Burns wrote,
“The best laid schemes o’ mice an’ men
Gang aft agley”.
Due to poor management, they have become safe havens for our already too numerous predators and inevitably have provided more trees for grey squirrels—a non-native invasive species—to gnaw. As broadleaf woodlands can support some eight to 18 squirrels per hectare, we have helped them considerably. In addition, they are very bad news not only for our native red squirrels but also for our nesting songbirds. Ring-necked parakeets outcompete native songbirds and other hole-nesting birds for nesting spaces and at garden feeding stations. It is a sad indictment that the most commonly encountered mammal in our royal parks, just a few hundred yards from here, is that destructive grey squirrel, and that the dominant birdsong and call heard there is that of the domineering ring-necked parakeet. They are both overabundant, oversexed and over here.
Returning to habitats for birds, rhododendron ponticum growing wild is a particular issue for ancient and native woodland. It results not only in the loss of native plants and a decrease in bird diversity but also in reduced populations of woodland species. Muntjac and fallow deer destroy the understorey and vegetative layer that the threatened native nightingale, wood warbler and other nesting birds rely on.
In 2010, the estimated annual cost of alien species to the British economy was £1.7 billion per annum. For comparison’s sake, that is about the same as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s budget for that year. On page 63 of their report, A Green Future: Our 25 Year Plan to Improve the Environment, when referring to non-native invasive species, the Government state:
“Where it is not feasible to eradicate these species because they are too widely established, we will seek to neutralise their threat by managing them effectively”.
What policies does my noble friend have in mind for these species and, just as importantly, what are his policies to mitigate the arrival and establishment of other species? Page 57 of the same document states that HMG will,
“support nature’s recovery and restore losses suffered over the past 50 years”.
That must apply particularly to songbirds.
We are an urban-oriented population, much of whose knowledge comes from books, the internet and television rather than from hands-on experience. If the Government are serious about protecting our environment, which includes the songbirds, they must heed more the advice of farmers and landowners, and the AES should be based on the Scottish model. Furthermore, would my noble friend agree that a substantial programme of education is needed, including active support for those NGOs already working in this field, as too many wildlife programmes are tainted by the syrupy anthropomorphism of celebrity presenters who deny the reality of rural life?
Viscount Thurso (LD)
My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests, particularly with regard to the land that I manage and run in Caithness. I thank the noble Earl for raising this very important subject, for two reasons. First, the decline in songbirds in particular but many other species, such as waders, seabirds and others, is a direct indication of the state of the environment, and an indicator of biodiversity and the environment generally. The decline is therefore worrying in itself, but it is also a red pointer on the environmental dial. The second reason why I thank him is for having caused me to read the excellent Library brief that was produced. I thought that I knew a little about this subject but, having read that brief, I realise that I have a great deal more to learn.
I would like to use my time to stray a little from what the noble Earl describes as the little brown jobs and talk a bit about some of the excellent work being done in Caithness to help to preserve and protect some other species of birds. The noble Earl is absolutely right to call attention to the need for sound environmental management as part of putting together the package that is going to help our species. The problem that I have always found is that we humans are extremely keen on an instant and usually simple answer. Across the 40 years when I have been responsible for management in the Flow Country, I have observed a great number of well-intentioned schemes from a variety of different areas, all of which have been found over time to have negative consequences. At one time, we planted conifer trees everywhere. We are now taking them out and restoring the blanket bog through ditching. At one time, we declared that we should take all the sheep off. We are now putting them back, because we need properly grazed land in order for the waders to survive. In all those areas, observing nature and walking quietly over the land is probably the best way to manage.
Some 20 years ago, I sold a piece of ground to the RSPB to add to its reserve at Blar nam Faoileag, of which I shall give the Hansard writers the proper spelling afterwards. It means “the bog of the seagull”. In selling it, I came to an arrangement with the RSPB whereby I had a sporting lease on that ground and continued to do low-intensity grouse shooting, and it has a management agreement over the whole of my estate. We work together very happily, and have done for 20 years. I am delighted that, as a steward of that area, I have pairs of golden eagles, hen harriers, buzzards and many other iconic raptors. I have a film of a sea eagle taking a salmon out of a pool, which is quite something to observe. I delight in them, and delight that the way in which I manage with the RSPB allows the game management that I want to do to work alongside that. We have all come together with the Caithness Wetlands and Wildlife Initiative, the Scottish Agricultural College, the RSPB, a couple of other NGOs and landowners like myself. Since 2010, we have been working to preserve the wildlife and enhance the habitat—and I am delighted to say that it is a very good partnership. Notwithstanding that, many of our iconic species continue to decline, so we are working as far as we can together to try to work out what other land management steps we can take to get back to where we used to be.
In my view, and my experience of some 20 years of working with SNH government bodies and NGOs such as the RSPB, it is entirely possible to work constructively to arrive at a point where all parties involved can get what they want out of that management co-operation. In conclusion, and in thanking the noble Earl for raising this subject, I say that how we manage is vital, but taking time to work out what is right is equally vital. It is often better to wait and do nothing until we are surer of what we are going to do. Sphagnum moss is the greatest eater of carbon that there is, and replacing it with trees was wrong. I hope that we will go forward and use sound management, which will help the songbirds as well as my waders.
Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)
My Lords, I too am grateful to the noble Earl for securing this debate on a troublesome subject. I have to declare one interest as the holder of a licence: a ringing permit from the British Trust for Ornithology. For over 50 years, I have been handling LBJs in migration stations in the Firth of Forth.
That there is a serious decline in the numbers of our songbirds is undeniable. Some species are more affected than others but I cannot think of a single songbird species that is more abundant than it was over 20 years ago. When I think about the reasons for this, threats from non-native species are not high on my list. On my list are the various challenges, almost all manmade, which affect birds that migrate and affect the places where they wish to breed when they get here.
Almost all our songbirds migrate to some extent but the worst affected are the insect-eating birds that migrate south to Africa. They face increasing obstacles that affect their ability to survive the journey. Climate change dries out areas where previously they could rest and feed; there are changes in land use; stopover sites which were previously available leave them starving for food which they need as fuel for their journeys. Then there is the appalling slaughter of birds in some parts of southern Europe where the traditional pursuits of capturing and killing songbirds still live on, despite the EU directives. It has been estimated that more than 11 million birds are killed or captured in the Mediterranean region every year. Can the Minister assure us that we will continue to press the Governments of the countries involved to stamp out this practice as vigorously as possible? The environment that the birds breed in once they get here is vital too. We need to conserve the hedgerows and meadows where our birds breed and replace those that have been lost. Are we doing enough in that area?
Predation by our own native species plays a significant part. I think of magpies, sparrow-hawks, stoats and hedgehogs. We have to accept these as part of the way that our natural environment works. On the whole, birds learn to cope with these hazards. I worry about magpies, however, a huge increase in the numbers of which seems to have coincided—at least in my area—with the decline in songbirds. I wish that something could be done to control their numbers but the Minister may agree that to try to interfere with the course of nature among our native species, so as to prefer one over another, would set an unfortunate precedent.
What about invasive non-native species such as the ring-necked parakeet, to which the noble Earl referred? It is non-native and, in some places, invasive. I would be interested to know, however, how much they affect the survival of songbirds. They compete with other hole-nesting birds but not all our songbirds nest in holes. They compete with those that rely on bird feeders and bird tables but not all our songbirds look to bird tables for their feeding; they feed on insects instead. Parakeets are by nature vegetarians. In India, where they come from, they take only seeds, flowers, fruits and nectar. For these reasons, I am not sure that there really is a case for controlling parakeets because they are a threat to songbirds. Of course the grey squirrel is the main non-native species that one might be really concerned about and there is a case for controlling their numbers. In my area of Scotland, we are fortunate because the squirrels are red but the threat of grey squirrels is very present not far away. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what progress has been made in controlling the numbers of grey squirrels.
This is a serious problem. I have two other interests that I should declare at this time: I am a member of the Scottish Ornithologists Club and of the Scottish Wildlife Trust, both of which do great work in trying to promote the interests of songbirds.
The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Caithness on securing his debate today. He is a great supporter of all rural and agricultural matters. I listened to him carefully; his contribution was excellent and most knowledgeable. Forgive me if my glasses fall off—they have stretched. My noble friend discussed a wide variety of issues from habitat and land management, through winter feeding to predator control. Personally, as a countryman I was fascinated and impressed. I agree with everything that he said. I refer noble Lords to my interests as a member of the NFU and the Countryside Alliance, and to my involvement past and current with various shooting associations.
Before I go slightly off piste, I must concur with my noble friend about the enormous contribution that the Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust makes. I have known it for many years and was a local chairman. The late Dr Dick Potts was a world-class act and a titan in his area of knowledge. He was the guiding light behind Loddington Farm and the GWCT’s working farm in Leicestershire, from whence so much expert advice has come over the years. I should declare my interest as a member of the GWCT.
I am a shooting man. I know that shoots, by their nature, whether you love them or loathe them, are conservationists. They have to be. They have to provide a good habitat for a wide variety of wildlife. In the process of establishing and enhancing hedgerows, conserving and promoting woodland, promoting insect production, vermin control, coppicing and a raft of other practices, they do all the things that assist in the promotion of songbirds.
Plenty of predators prey on songbirds. Where I live, on the borders of the Peak District National Park, we have numerous magpies. I watch them at nesting time sneaking down the hedgerows, robbing eggs and fledglings. The magpie is a thoroughly vicious bird. We cull them as much we can. Buzzards, too, although protected, cause many problems. I am told that the buzzard is purely a carrion gatherer. That is not so. I have watched him take young chicks and pheasant poults. He will circle over a release pen and all the poults will cower in a corner and smother to death. The buzzard population is out of control. Indeed, just the other day, I counted 11 over the 15-acre wood behind my house.
Among the various songbird predators, and there are many—my noble friend mentioned cats, but where I live, the cat is a minor problem; I think it is more of an urban issue—we have the fox, which has no natural predator. The only method by which we can protect other species which he preys on is by human intervention and control. The grey squirrel, which has already been mentioned, is also a predator on songbirds. They have little fear of predation, save for in the north-east of the country, where they are scared stiff of the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. He is a highly successful predator of the grey squirrel and a great supporter of the red of the species; perhaps that is a little illiberal of him. I practised that line so many times.
The noble Duke, the Duke of Norfolk, realised a number of years ago that the wild English partridge was becoming close to extinction, so he produced a programme on his land to engender a revival of the species. He is truly an expert and fascinating to listen to on the subject. He commissioned new hedgerows, planted on a ridge so that ground-nesting birds would not have their nests flooded and chicks would survive in heavy rain conditions. He established beetle banks and wildflower strips around headlands, ensuring that there would be an abundance of natural insect life for feeding birds. He also used sensible and proportionate predator control. Because of that initiative, the songbirds found a friend. I could go on, because I am passionate about this, but I am very much time limited.
In attempting to reach a conclusion, I suggest to my noble friend the Minister, who has always been a great supporter of rural issues, that Brexit provides an ideal and once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take a view on rural financial support. Surely future subsidy—I think it should be called support—should be targeted away from the large farmers who benefit from economies of scale and pointed to the small to medium-sized farms, uplands and less favoured areas, perhaps focusing on wildlife and habitat schemes designed by the GWCT, which is a world leader. Perhaps that body could be paid fees through an environment support fund, where landowners and farmers would be rewarded for the quality of their stewardship or penalised for their lack of it.
The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Earl, Lord Shrewsbury, with his noted wisdom in this subject area and good turn of phrase. I, too, add my congratulations to the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, on securing the debate in this important area which we discuss all too rarely, having had other things to discuss recently. I declare my interest as chairman of the United Kingdom Squirrel Accord and of the Red Squirrel Survival Trust.
The UK Squirrel Accord is a collaborative organisation with 35 signatories, which comprise the four national Governments, their nature entities and the large voluntary and private sector bodies. It has the twin aim of dealing with the threats to broadleaf trees in the UK and to red squirrels, both of which are posed by grey squirrels. I note that, according to the Mammal Society, there are now 2.7 million grey squirrels in the UK, and the number is growing. In 1875, there were none.
The SongBird Survival trust on its website has a section entitled, “impact of non-native species”. The first bullet point says:
“Grey squirrels eat songbird nestlings and eggs, compete for food, destroy broad-leaved trees, and are out-competing our native red squirrels”.
In summary, the two main problems are the eating of nestlings and eggs and the destruction of songbird habitat.
Turning briefly to the first, I was horrified to see last night when I typed: “Do squirrels eat birds?” into Google Images, the results were a terrible array of grey squirrels eating. The anecdotal evidence is so strong yet, frustratingly, the hard scientific fact as to how much a contributor grey squirrel eating habits are to the dreadful songbird number reductions remains elusive. Where songbird habitat destruction is concerned, scientific facts are banned.
Estimates for the timber value destroyed by grey squirrels over the last 10 years in the UK are between £100 and £200 million. The Royal Forestry Society is trying to update these currently, and I understand that the early signs point to a very significantly upward revision. Grey squirrels ring bark broadleaved trees aged between approximately 10 and 40 years to get at their sap, which destroys the trees. In southern England, effectively, there is no commercial planting of these species happening today, so native songbird habitat is not being replaced. I know this well, as this is why the UK Squirrel Accord was formed three years or so ago. The work of the accord is thus directly related to songbird habitat. The accord has many strands of co-operative work going on, aimed at controlling grey squirrel numbers.
As a UK-wide body, we are involved in commissioning scientific research of various types to assist. The most exciting and innovative in the world stage concerns fertility control. On our behalf, 18 months ago, the Animal and Plant Health Agency started a five-year project aimed at grey-squirrel-targeted fertility control. The work involves an existing fertility control drug in use in the USA, injecting this inside pollen, which is a new UK technology, mixing the pollen into a paste—and feeding the paste to grey squirrels in a specially designed species-specific hopper. The research is going well and it is hard to praise enough the team of exceptional scientists involved. In addition, this is a public-private project, with the squirrel accord committing to raise £1 million or so. Many generous individuals and trusts have helped fund this vital research. I believe this will be a key part of a strategy to help with the songbird habitat problem over what I regret will be a long haul.
In closing, I ask the Minister to comment on the research paper, which he had a very important part in commissioning himself.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Caithness for introducing this issue. It is, as the noble Viscount, Lord Thurso, pointed out, an indicator of other, much deeper problems for our environment here in Britain.
We know that 16 species of our favourite songbirds have declined by more than one-third since 1995, including such iconic birds as the cuckoo and the wood warbler. To address this decline, and all the other linked environmental issues, we need massive changes to land use in our country. Part of that relates to the issue of land ownership. Too much land has been concentrated in too few hands. The vast majority of our land is still held by a small number of hereditary families, possibly including some of your Lordships. Many work very hard. I know of one Peer who has a 50-acre wildflower meadow, which is extremely difficult to create and maintain. Many large landowners improve their land for now and for future generations. But there is an inequality that has to be tackled. Margaret Thatcher used to speak of the home-owning democracy; perhaps the time has come for a land-owning democracy. I am using a Conservative link, so that it feeds into the Government’s ears.
Perhaps the biggest impact a freeholder could make is to lease parcels of land—the rocky, sloping marginal bits that you cannot work out what to do with, or that do not have any obvious use. If you lease a parcel of this marginal land to someone with ideas and enthusiasm, they can manage it in an ecologically friendly way. That is what happened in Old Sleningford Farm in north Yorkshire, where a 17-acre smallholding is leased and managed in a revolutionary way. In exchange for a peppercorn rent, this patch of rocky dirt has been transformed into what is called a “food forest”, with over 250 species of fruit and nut trees being grown organically. The freeholder himself loves it, and gets chickens and bacon and an endless supply of fruit; the leaseholders have crafted a successful local business; and local people visit to get involved in tending the land, as a sort of social exercise.
We are still stuck in the 20th-century mindset brought about by the World Wars when maximising production was the sole purpose of agricultural policy. We have to move on from that and think in a more modern way. We know how to fix the problem of climate change, but we are not doing it fast enough. The longer we stall, the worse things will get and the more it will cost to remedy. Some people think that it is crass to talk about nature in monetary terms, because it is worth much so more than money can ever reflect, but it is a simple fact that our environment and ecology have an immense economic value in terms of the products and services that nature provides to us for free. It represents billions of pounds-worth of natural capital. In the end, our natural capital is the only infrastructure that really matters—more than all the roads, rail, electricity and internet. We can lose all those things, and all the money in the world but, if we lose our environment and ecosystems, everything else becomes worthless.
We have big opportunities over this Parliament, with numerous Bills dedicated to farming and the environment. We will literally shape the future of our country with the words in those Bills. We showed in the withdrawal Bill that we will improve legislation in the face of stiff government opposition, and I hope that we will continue in that spirit as we address the challenges of our environment and ecosystems.
I went to a farmers’ market yesterday and was lobbied very heavily by a beekeeper. He outlined the problem that in Britain we import far too many bees and do not encourage our own natural bee population. No bumblebees are currently commercially produced in the UK, and the substitution of home-grown produce has commercial, biodiversity and biosecurity advantages for the whole country. Apparently, subspecies of honey bees are also being imported, with a resulting loss of quality over succeeding generations: bad temper, swarminess and lack of local adaptation. This goes way beyond songbirds; it is about every single part of nature, and we have to protect it.
Viscount Falkland (CB)
My Lords, at first glance I thought this Question was rather daunting, and that the reference to invasive, non-native species was a sort of new bird-Brexit talk. Having heard the excellent speeches which preceded mine, I now understand exactly what people are talking about. From the perspective of someone with a 95-foot garden, I am not equipped to talk about a lot of the things which large landowners will mention in this debate. I have noticed extraordinary changes in my garden over the nearly 30 years that I have lived there. I have not found a particular problem with the invasive ringed green parakeet on the bird table, although there is an awful lot of noise and pushing around. The only confrontation I have seen was with a greater spotted woodpecker, who stood and maintained his ground. There are very few songbirds—and I agree that there is probably an overall decrease in them. Of course, they eat insects more than they go to bird tables.
My interest in birds began at a very early age. My father took me to the coast, close to where we lived in Devon, to try and take the oil off the feathers of puffins, whose wings had become immobilised. I was only three years old, so I was hardly fit to judge whether he was very effective at that, but I enormously admired his efforts. From that point, birds have been an important part of my life. I luckily ran pretty well free and without discipline through my childhood during the Second World War, as both my parents were involved in the war effort in one way or another. Birds were one of my interests when I was in both the south of England and Scotland. I had all the necessary books to identify them and to pontificate to my friends on the subject, and that was maintained throughout my life until I went to an organised boarding school. What shocked me there was that I saw very little of birds outside but I saw a lot of stuffed birds, stuffed fish and stuffed everything—stuffed teachers, if you will. So that was a bleak period, except that I qualified for a bicycle by joining the natural history society. I used to say that I was using the bicycle to watch the mallards at the Binfield brickworks, but that was an excuse for going to the cinema in Bracknell, which at that time was a one-horse town.
One notable time for me during my bird-watching life was when I went to Africa on business, and I went to Lake Nakuru and saw the flamingos. Back then, in the early 1970s, there were between 2 million and 3 million flamingos. It was a fantastic sight and they made a fantastic sound. Their food source was the algae in the alkaline lake. Unfortunately, the lake has been subject to pollution in east Africa, and now there are just a few flamingos around the perimeter of the lake. So the reduction in bird numbers is a worldwide problem.
I end by saying that the public need much more information about birds. I highly praise the BBC for its “Springwatch” and “Autumnwatch” programmes. The other day I spoke to the chairman of the BBC and said, “That really is a star programme. Do keep up the good work”. I think that he was quite grateful for my words.
That is all I have to say. I continue with my bird interest in the mornings. I sit there with my porridge and coffee and have my field glasses to hand. I look at my garden and the bird table. I agree with the noble Earl, who in his excellent speech made a point about cats. That is where education is needed. People who have cats need to realise that they need to be controlled and kept away from the birdlife.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, for tabling this debate today and for his excellent contribution. I also thank all noble Lords for their considerable expertise. As ever, I have learned a great deal from listening to this debate. It follows the excellent one that we had last week on the survival of bees and other pollinators. Many of the issues are the same. Disease, habitat loss, climate change and pesticides have all had an impact, and of course, where insects decline, there is an inevitable consequence for the food source of birds.
As noble Lords have said, the populations of farmland and woodland bird species have fallen dramatically over the last 50 years. Undoubtedly, intensive farming and the tearing out of hedgerows, which were encouraged in the past, have taken their toll, and the widespread use of pesticides has exacerbated that decline.
Thankfully, if rather belatedly, more recent Governments have started the process of reversing that damage with the support of farmers. Hedgerows are now being recreated, field borders are being left to grow wild, farmers are being rewarded for creating wildflower meadows, and the Government have listened to the science and banned the use of neonicotinoids for pest control.
All this is a start but clearly, as we have heard in this debate, there is a great deal more that we can do. For example, does the Minister agree that there is a growing need for a review of the use of all pesticides to take account of the negative effects, as well as the advantages, that they can bring? Does he also agree that, when we invest in science, we need to make sure that we harness the less damaging ways of tackling persistent weeds and pests by building on nature’s own natural biodiversity?
The Government’s plan to grow more trees, creating in particular more broad-leaved woodland areas, will also have a positive effect where they are appropriately managed. I take the point made by several noble Lords about that important caveat. As the Minister might acknowledge, currently the Government are some way off target on meeting their ambition to plant 11 million more trees. At the same time we need to make a concerted effort to make urban areas more attractive to wildlife. I absolutely take the point about communicating with home owners and the importance of programmes like “Springwatch”. Home owners need to be encouraged to abandon decking and concrete and to find new pleasure in birds and insects that will make their gardens come alive again. The planting of dense vegetation encourages songbirds to nest.
Finally, the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, reminded us all of the particular threat to songbirds of invasive non-native species. While many non-native species are harmless, occasionally there are those which creep up on us and pose a threat to our native biodiversity. One detrimental impact which has already been mentioned is that of non-native grey squirrels, although again cats and rats also play their part in raiding nests, eating eggs and killing young birds. A number of references have been made to magpies and raptors. I have to say to noble Lords that the research I have seen is rather less decisive on this point, although I am sure that it is a debate for another occasion. Noble Lords have referred to parakeets and we know the effect they can have by chasing native birds away from food sites and excluding endemic birds and bats from nesting cavities. It has been suggested that there could be a cull of parakeets, but I hope that we can take other measures which are not quite as drastic as that. I am sure that the Minister will be able to tell us what more the Government are proposing to do about this issue.
I look forward to hearing from the Minister about the actions the Government are taking to tackle the threat of non-native invasive species and I hope that he will acknowledge some of the ideas which have been presented in this debate. They give us more hope of looking forward to the return of native songbirds as a welcome part of our lives.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on giving us a lead to share our delight in songbirds and I acknowledge their importance. I have to say that I had always thought that “All the way with LBJ” referred to an American President, but I am now better informed.
Songbirds are a much-loved part of our wildlife and are to be found in a diverse range of habitats: farms, wetlands, woodlands, gardens and urban parks. The crescendo of the dawn chorus and birds feeding in our gardens, the robin and the blackbird waiting alongside the garden fork appeal to our senses. Indeed, the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, gave us a fascinating account of his early years with birds.
Songbirds are a diverse group of around 300 species of small to medium-sized birds, making up just under half of the UK’s bird species. We should be concerned about the decline in many species of songbirds since the 1970s. The trend since the mid-1990s is more mixed with a low or no overall change in abundance, although while many populations are now stable or increasing, some individual species have continued to decline. For instance, I see more goldfinches and long-tailed tits but fewer greenfinches. I am delighted this year to have two nests of spotted flycatchers on the front of the house. Declines in songbirds are due to a combination of factors, including changes in land management practice, land drainage, loss of biodiversity, overgrazing by deer in woodlands and invasive non-native species. All have had an impact.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, raised the important factor of the effect of climate change on migratory bird species, and only today a report has been produced on our efforts in our military bases in Cyprus and the steps being taken. The UK’s network of 273 special protection areas protects the most vulnerable and threatened wild bird species and their habitats, while our network of sites of special scientific interest provide valuable habitats for a range of bird species. Indeed, overall 3.3 million hectares of land in England are protected, providing important habitat for species.
In the wider landscape, agri-environment schemes are the principal mechanisms by which we support the conservation of songbirds by providing food and nesting resources. Since 2015, over 2,000—or nearly half—of new countryside stewardship agreements included the wild pollinator and farm wildlife package. The Forestry Commission and Natural England have produced countryside stewardship woodland bird guidance for applicants, to create the optimum conditions for songbirds, such as tree pipits and the wood warbler.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, spoke of some of the clear evidence of successful recovery of some farmland birds due to land management funded by the agri-environment schemes. My experience is now with advances in agri-tech and precision farming, basing our decisions on pesticides on independent and the best available scientific advice. That is the basis on which we will take these matters forward.
An independent study in 2012 found that provision of winter food resources with over-winter stubble and wild bird seed crops resulted in a positive effect in local populations, as I saw on a visit to the Cotswolds, when seeing a profusion of linnets and yellowhammers. Indeed, I am reminded of the work at Loddington, to which my noble friends Lord Caithness and Lord Shrewsbury referred. I am very much looking forward to a forthcoming visit to Arundel to see what our noble friend the Duke of Norfolk is undertaking on his estates.
Another interesting point of success—we are always very worried about the declines, and rightly so—is the ninefold increase in the numbers of cirl buntings. Indeed, a new reintroduction in Cornwall of now over 1,000 birds is considered the first successful songbird reintroduction in Europe. My noble friend Lord Caithness has highlighted concerns about the impact of predator control and its effectiveness, and has suggested that we should consider our options in this matter. I share the view that targeted management of predators, using a mix of land management methods, can benefit the conservation of bird species, especially ground-nesting species.
I am also conscious of ecosystems and the natural world, in the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, and I very much hope that she will be involved in “Bees’ Needs” week. She will forgive me if I do not go down her line of country in terms of land ownership, because I would definitely be on a different page. However, we are united in wanting the best for the natural world.
Leaving the EU, whatever our view, undoubtedly presents an opportunity to devise new environmental land management schemes as a cornerstone of future agricultural policy. I was, of course, particularly taken with what the noble Viscount, Lord Thurso, said of his experiences in the Flow Country, and how success can be secured with what I call sensible collaboration with all interested parties. That point was also made by my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury.
In the 25-year environment plan, we are committed to developing a strategy for nature covering our land and freshwater habitats and to take forward our international commitments to halt the loss of biodiversity. As with Biodiversity 2020, the new strategy will seek to enhance our natural habitats, and ensure conservation and recovery.
My noble friend Lord Caithness referred to planning and the potential use of buffer strips. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, made the point in terms of the urban situation as well. The Government are looking at how embedding a net-gain principle in planning could contribute to nature recovery alongside facilitating housing development. This approach could help to address the impact of development on songbird habitats by improving incentives to retain habitats within development sites or by increasing the amount of habitat enhanced or created.
My noble friend Lord Caithness also mentioned cats, and the joint project between SongBird Survival and Exeter University to look at this issue in more depth. Last week, when I attended the all-party group that deals with cat welfare, I was brave enough to raise this matter and explain that there would be a debate in your Lordships’ House on songbirds. My officials and I are very interested to see what the Exeter study concludes.
Invasive non-native species such as grey squirrels and muntjac deer have had a profound impact on songbirds and can undermine conservation. The pipits and pintails are back in such numbers in South Georgia—where I would love to go one day—for one reason: we tackled the invader. It is extraordinary how nature has recovered so dramatically in but a few years. I have seen at first hand the impact muntjac have had in the overgrazing of the under canopy, which means that nesting sites for birds such as the nightingale are disappearing.
My noble friend Lord Caithness has raised the matter of the loss of songbirds. Our country has long been the most active country in Europe in addressing invasive non-native species. The EU invasive alien species regulation, which our country was instrumental in developing, sets out strict restrictions on the keeping and sale of species listed under the regulation, as well as prohibiting their release to the environment. To me, biosecurity means that a key priority must be to reduce the risk of new species entering the country and to control the spread of a number of established species.
Under the joint grey squirrel action plan for England, Defra and the Forestry Commission are committed to working with landowners and other organisations to implement a package of measures to support targeted grey squirrel control. We should thank my noble friend Lord Kinnoull and all those involved in the Squirrel Accord for what they are doing. He referred to research into the development of an immuno-contraceptive. The research continues to progress well, and I acknowledge the exceptional scientists who are so engaged in this vital work. APHA is working with the UK Squirrel Accord and its donors. The formulation for the vaccine has now been identified and tests are under way with captive grey squirrels to ascertain the longevity of the vaccine and identify any potential side-effects.
I am informed that there are more deer in this country than at any time since the Norman conquest. We believe that the management of deer is clearly best carried out by local deer management groups, so that the natural flora and fauna are kept in balance. My observation is that traditional country people—who care about the land and about wildlife—appreciate that it is all about balance. If something in nature becomes out of balance, problems start to occur, as we are seeing in some areas with corvids and magpies in particular. Deer species such as the muntjac are causing damage because of their prolific breeding. It is important to look at these matters through the Deer Initiative, which brings together local groups to ensure that deer management is sustainable and effective.
We humans have the capacity to do much good. We also have the capacity to do extraordinary harm to the natural world. It is surely the responsibility of all of us to act as good custodians of the natural world and to foster it for future generations. My noble friend Lord Caithness mentioned education. This is an issue about which the next generation feels very strongly. The balance and management of nature and the wise use of land is so important. It requires a collaborative approach at home and abroad between the different UK Administrations and landowners, farmers, non-governmental organisations and members of the public. Songbirds are surely a true glory of our natural heritage. Everyone should be able to enjoy ready access to a better environment with an increasingly healthy songbird population. That is our task and our responsibility. I am so grateful to my noble friend Lord Caithness for ensuring we could debate this.
Violent Extremism
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Purvis of Tweed
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the report of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for the British Council Building Young People’s Resilience to Violent Extremism in the Middle East and North Africa, published on 12 December 2017, what are their priorities for preventing and countering violent extremism.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I declare an interest as an office holder of the All-Party Group on the British Council. I was a member of a sub-committee of the all-party group which worked under the able chair, David Warburton MP, on putting together a report with my colleagues, the noble Baronesses, Lady Hodgson and Lady Suttie, and, for a period, the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, all of whom are in their places. Together we forged a degree of consensus after receiving a great deal of evidence from witnesses, to whom we are grateful. Our report, which was published last year and formally earlier this year, I hope is a contribution to a debate which will continue to be of considerable importance not only for the United Kingdom but for our allies and partners across the MENA region. That work was ably supported by Siobhan Foster Perkins and Zafran Iqbal, who was at the British Council at the time. Without their support we would not have been able to put together our recommendations and conclusions.
Two weeks ago, 8 million children across the Middle East and North Africa sat their end-of-year school exams. Many will have done so after overcoming significant challenges—displacement, poverty, child labour, poor school transportation, overcrowding, lack of teachers and facilities and low-quality education. One in five of all children across the region live in conflict-affected countries. Those children do not only deserve our admiration but consideration of the role we can play to help them grow up in a safe, stable and prosperous region where they can realise their ambitions.
It might be only a tiny proportion of these young people who become violent as a result of being radicalised, but their violent behaviour has an impact on the wider age group across the whole of the region. The all-party group sub-committee therefore considered the best ways of improving resilience among young people to overcome this and whether our government policy needs to be reviewed. I am pleased that the Minister will be responding to this debate. He commands a great deal of respect not only from myself but across all parts of the House.
Nearly a third of the region’s population is aged between 15 and 29, with a further third aged below that. This demographic momentum, therefore, will last for at least two decades. The phenomenon of some young people using violence as an extension of their extreme views may also now be a long-term issue that requires long-term solutions, given the scale of violent conflict affecting the area. The sub-committee found that there was a need for new thinking. However, often the debate has not been helped by casual terminology. While we found a lack of consensus around definitions and language, we settled on the broad descriptions used by the United Nations on countering violent extremism by focusing on the so-called pull factors of the individual and preventing violent extremism by focusing on the so-called push factors of the wider community. However, even that division is too simplistic. We considered carefully whether we have the correct balance between CVE and PVE. We found that without undermining the security considerations of CVE, once extremism has exhibited itself, the balance should rest upon the priority being on PVE to reduce the risk factors in an individual’s capacity and the society’s ability to reduce vulnerability to violent extremism.
Those risk factors within the society fall within three broad areas—economic, civic and social. The economic factors in the region are stark. Research by UNICEF shows that in 11 League of Arab States countries, the under-18 population stands at approximately 118 million, or 6% of the world’s child population. Of those 118 million, 82 million—70%—live in acute or moderate poverty. There is no evidence to make a direct link between poverty and violent extremism. Nevertheless, countries afflicted by conflict and with such acute economic difficulties often present fertile ground where extreme ideology, and those who use it as a tool, can develop. A further complexity is that we know through research that the majority of the most extreme violent young people have educational qualifications. Simply looking at access to education will therefore not be so revealing. Rather, witnesses told the committee that the type and quality of education available to young people in the region was of the greatest importance.
The risk factors associated with the civic sphere are plain to see for anyone visiting the region. Too many young people see their respective Governments as unresponsive, unrepresentative, corrupt and distant. A body of research presented to the sub-committee suggests that this is likely to be a major continuing factor of risk in the region. The state capture of non-state actors is also very present. Social risk factors often receive the most publicity. The simplistic, often verging on the Islamophobic, characterisation of religious radicalism belies complex and multifaceted issues concerning young peoples’ beliefs, identities and loyalties. Work in Tunisia by the peacebuilding charity Search for Common Ground, which we met over there, shows clearly that young people in the region are not a homogeneous group and that drivers for radicalisation are often localised and differ from one community to another.
Given this highly complex set of circumstances in a deeply troubled region, we found that focusing on upstream activity—in other words, on the building of greater strength and capacity in communities and societies, and on the individual herself or himself—is a more effective route to follow than countering it once it has materialised. It is not, however, the straightforward route. The UN Plan of Action to Prevent Violent Extremism states that,
“there is no authoritative statistical data on the pathways towards individual radicalization”.
However, we learned of clear evidence of programmes delivered by the British Council itself or by UK-based or international NGOs where interventions to reduce the risk factors for individuals and the community have worked and are continuing to work. I want to put on record my admiration for DfID’s staff and others within the charity sector who are doing sterling work.
The sub-committee made a number of recommendations which we believe would help build on this work, informed by our witnesses and the evidence we received. Our principal conclusion was that there needed to be scaled-up activity in preventing violent extremism along with better co-ordination of effort by both donor and recipient Governments as well as the international NGO community. This reflects our view that while there are many complexities and cross-overs between the push and pull factors in addressing violent extremism, we believe that the principal focus on investing in building the resilience of communities and the individuals living in them is the most effective way to build the capabilities of young people and the stability of their community, so that they reject the proponents of violent extremism and the ideology which they promote. They can also recover more quickly from violent extremism when it manifests itself in the community or their country.
I cannot do justice to the 28 conclusions and recommendations in the report, nor will I try to rattle them all off for the benefit of the Committee, but I know that neither will the Minister be able to respond in detail to them all today. I wish to highlight some which I feel are important, and I am sure that colleagues will highlight those that they consider to be the most important to them. First, relating to the risk factors within the economic and education systems in the region, we found a need for much greater co-ordination among its education ministries on data, statistics, skills gaps and curriculum reform. We believe that an annual MENA education forum, supported by the British Council and the Government, would have merit.
We also saw many examples of excellent programmes to support young people, but there has been insufficient consideration of how they can be scaled up. That is not easy but it is necessary. In the civic space, we saw that the benefits would be much greater collaboration between NGOs and Governments on the rollout and use of participation programmes, and we suggested consideration of a MENA-wide national citizen service. In the social sphere, we recommended that more work should be done to identify individual risk communities within countries and to share this data.
A recommendation to our Government is that they should set out a clear UK strategy for and approach to preventing violent extremism and offer more clarity on what programmes they fund and why. To address what we found to be the continuing lack of an evidence base on effectiveness, we called for donors to invest more effort into ensuring that programmes are evidence-based and carefully evaluated, with their impact being properly judged, and to publish the lessons learned for future programming.
We argued for much more work on the violent extremism theory of change and seeking consensus based on a much greater level of sharing good practice. To help bring this about, we called for a violent extremism community of practice, and I am delighted that the British Council has accepted this recommendation and will be convening it soon. I hope that the Government will offer their full support. This could be extremely valuable and, I believe, is the first of its kind. We also recommended that the Government should encourage other Governments in the region to commit to a whole-government response rather than the agenda being led by the security or interior ministries. Finally, we believe that all of this could be enhanced by the UK promoting a PVE charter which would show consistency of language and a consensus on the effectiveness of interventions, and would work in parallel with the UN.
I returned from the region at lunchtime today. Every time I visit the area I see small pockets of hope in a deeply troubled region. Those 8 million children who sat their exams will be just as anxious as our children will be later in the summer when they get their results. What our kids take for granted in this country, we should make every effort to ensure that children in the MENA region can also take for granted: a safe, open and tolerant society in which their ambitions can be fulfilled.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for securing today’s debate and so ably introducing it. As he said, like him, I was a member of the inquiry into building young people’s resilience to violent extremism in MENA, and I thank the British Council for setting up the inquiry and those who worked on it.
The rise of extremism in recent years has been shocking in terms of both what has happened in the Middle East and the attacks that have taken place in Europe. Daesh and its intention to establish a caliphate had a devastating effect in the Middle East, with its brutal, barbaric acts traumatising local populations. In some places, as with the Yazidi and Christian populations, its operations could be described as genocide. Sadly, it is not the only actor in the Middle East committing such crimes and, in this global, interconnected world, what happens in another country runs the risk of affecting us all.
This is a subject that we need to keep high on the agenda. Although Daesh appears to have been defeated, we should not be lulled into considering that it has been overcome. While many are in prison in Iraq, many thousands of fighters streamed out of Raqqa, apparently just allowed to go, and we are already seeing the effects in places such as Afghanistan.
Without doubt, Daesh’s message was targeting young people, described to me by one journalist as being an enticing message of “glory, God and gold”, drawing people from many countries, including those from Europe and the UK. While considering how to address this in other countries, we also need to consider how to address it domestically.
The inquiry took a hard and fundamental look at why some young people had been attracted to these causes. As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, highlighted, we identified three areas of risk factors: economic, civic and social. In many countries from which the young were recruited, there was a lack of opportunity and employment, corruption and weak government, and the young felt marginalised.
We live in a time when there are more refugees and IDPs than at any other time since World War II. I am sure that others here, like me, have visited refugee camps. It is a sobering experience. People have fled with nothing, and those with nothing have nothing to lose. These places are breeding grounds for radicalisation. But the majority of refugees and IDPs are not in camps; they are hidden among the population, hard to identify, hard to reach and thus hard to help. Many of them will be refugees and IDPs for years, either because of conflict in the country, because their homes have been destroyed or because they are stuck with no means of return.
As we have heard, youth is not a homogeneous group. The political urgency for Governments to respond to the threat of global terrorism is at times in danger of producing unnuanced, counterproductive policy responses. It is suggested that systematically addressing exclusion is one of the best means to prevent violent extremism.
We must not forget the particular challenges that women and girls face in contexts of violent extremism, because of the exacerbation of pre-existing inequalities and exclusion from decision-making. I declare an interest and draw attention to the latest report of GAPS—Gender Action for Peace and Security—Prioritise Peace: Challenging Approaches to Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism from a Women, Peace and Security Perspective. Addressing underlying drivers of violent conflict from a gender perspective is essential to building the resilience of young people. Cultural and educational programmes can engage young people in at-risk communities and make a difference to addressing the underlying economic, civil and social risk factors. I am pleased that following the inquiry the British Council is expanding and improving its resilience programming to new countries in the Middle East and north Africa, especially in the areas of soft skills and entrepreneurship. What support are Her Majesty’s Government providing to the British Council in this expansion?
Time is short, so I will touch briefly on communication. Daesh recruited very effectively on social media. What messages do we, as a society, put out? Are we welcoming, open-minded and inclusive? Do we counter the alluring messages of the young by pointing out the advantages of living in an open, democratic country? What image do they get of us when reading our press?
It is easy to focus on the negative, but Gareth Evans’s quote in the report reminds us that for every case of extremism there are innumerably more cases of people from different cultures and backgrounds living harmoniously together. We need to celebrate, foster and speak up about this inclusivity: it is a strong narrative that counteracts the divisive messages of the few. Once again, therefore, I give enormous thanks to the British Council for setting up this inquiry. We should be fantastically proud of the work that they do around the world.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, I confess to being wary of the practice of certain commercial groups that provide secretarial help for busy parliamentarians, with a view to ensuring that the resulting report contains conclusions and recommendations that accord with their interests and image. This report is decisively not in that category. The British Council strives successfully to promote the public interest by soft power initiatives, and has an excellent track record in MENA. I therefore congratulate my fellow parliamentarians who produced this valuable report, which is both a helpful source of information and a stimulus to all who work in the field.
All our European partners wrestle with the same problem of addressing young people. President Macron’s initiative, announced yesterday, on national service for 16 year-olds in France, may be seen in the same context. The starting point is surely that there is no simple or short-term answer to violent extremism, and it is useful not just to examine the message and the messenger but to go upstream and look at the overall environment—and, yes, to examine the effectiveness of these initiatives.
The choice of Morocco and Tunisia to examine is interesting: both emerged positively from the Arab spring—almost alone, save Jordan—with reformist Governments and relatively democratic constitutions. It is puzzling, however, that both Morocco and Tunisia send a disproportionate number of recruits to Daesh in Iraq and Syria and to terrorist groups in Europe. I was saddened to read in the report that, in spite of so many positive factors, the majority of young people interviewed in Morocco wanted to leave their country for better opportunities, and not to return to contribute to their country’s future.
I make a few observations on the report, in a constructive spirit. Others have covered the same ground as this report with broadly similar conclusions. I think particularly of the five UNDP reports on Arab human development published between 2002 and 2009, which are still valid, particularly on the role of women. The group might also have consulted our parliamentary colleague, Liam Byrne MP, who has written persuasively on the subject.
The authors might also have asked why some countries, or parts of countries, are more prone to violent extremism. It cannot just be a booming youth population, since the whole of Nigeria would then suffer, not just the north. It cannot just be socioeconomic problems, as in many ways Zimbabwe, for example, fares less well than MENA countries but does not have the same extremism. This suggests a religious link, which, perhaps because of the sensitivities involved, the authors chose to exclude from their remit. Surely we need trusted, local religious leaders on board. I note that Morocco, for example, has set up a centre for training moderate local imams.
Much of the same ground has already been covered by international organisations. The authors acknowledge the 2016 UN plan of action, but not the work of the European Union and the Council of Europe. There must surely be an exchange of best practice and a co-ordination of efforts across civil society to prevent an insular approach to this problem. In March this year, after publication of the report, a relevant major symposium was hosted by Birmingham University and that initiative is worth examining. Investment in human rights, the rule of law and democracy are among the soft power tools with which the British Council has already made a positive impact, together with the work of the arts, sport and technical and language training.
Finally, young people need to be listened to if they are to be valued. The upstream work set out in the report is wholly relevant to our national interest. If we do not go to them, they will come to us, including in destructive ways.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lord, I too would like to congratulate my noble friend Lord Purvis of Tweed on securing this extremely important debate. If I may say so, the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, illustrates the amount of thinking that needs to be done on this subject. It affects this country, as well as beyond. I declare an interest as a vice-chair of the APPG for the British Council. I refer noble Lords to my interests in the register in relation to my work in the MENA region, as well as to my visits to the region in the context of this inquiry.
Like my noble friend Lord Purvis, I should like to thank David Warburton MP, who so eagerly chaired the inquiry and to pay particular tribute to Siobhan Foster-Perkins and Zafran Iqbal from the British Council—who are present this afternoon—for their work in tirelessly steering this inquiry towards its conclusions, and for doing so much of the spadework in producing the excellent report we are discussing.
At the beginning of this British Council APPG inquiry, we spent quite a lot of time analysing the nature and causes of violent extremism. The reasons are multiple and complex. Although unemployment and poverty can be major factors, there have also been examples of perpetrators coming from fairly middle-class backgrounds. Indeed, the causes often have as much to do with issues of identity and psychology—often relating to a background of trauma and mental illness—as they do with economic impoverishment or religious fanaticism.
One of the core findings of the inquiry, as other noble Lords have said, is that an effective approach to tackling violent extremism should pay particular attention to programmes and interventions that tackle the underlying causes of radicalisation at source. In other words, prevention is better than cure and interventions to build resilience in potentially vulnerable communities are a much more effective approach.
The APPG report makes several specific recommendations on targeting economic, civic and social factors. Given the time constraints this afternoon, I shall concentrate my remarks on the importance of education and educational reform. It is perhaps a paradox that in the extremely well-educated populations of north Africa, unemployment is particularly high among the graduate population. That alienation can become particularly dangerous in a highly educated, but seemingly underappreciated section of society.
I remember speaking to a young Tunisian university lecturer at the British Council’s annual Hammamet conference, who explained to me his frustration that there was such a mismatch between the education system provided and the skills currently required for his country to move forwards. Research shows that critical thinking and the development of soft skills can play a pivotal role in building resilience to violent extremism. Projects such as the British Council’s Young Arab Voices programme, which does so much to assist young people in their English language skills, while simultaneously developing their critical thinking and debating skills, are the kind of low-cost, positive initiative that can make a serious difference on the ground.
Increasing funding for young leadership programmes, such as the excellent Chevening scholarships, allows young people from the region to benefit. I hope the Government will give serious consideration to the report’s conclusion on increasing the intake of Chevening scholars from the MENA region.
Can the Minister say in his concluding remarks whether the Government support the conclusion in the report that the British Council should be supported by the Government to play a stronger role in education reform in the region—not least through additional funding for specific work of this type, working closely with the Ministries of Education in the region?
In my remaining remarks I will say a few words about anticipating future areas of recruitment for violent extremism, rather than, as so often sadly happens, reacting post fact to where the recruiters have already done their work. We know it is not a coincidence that countries with high levels of conflict and large numbers of displaced people and refugees, as well as the refugee camps themselves—like the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, I have also visited these refugee camps in Jordan—can be fertile recruiting grounds for violent extremism. What measures are the Government taking right now in Iraq and Syria, as well as in the camps situated in neighbouring Jordan and Turkey, to support young people and to provide training and skills development for alternative pathways? Finally, what plans do the Government have to enhance British Council and other programmes in regions such as central Asia, where support now to help to develop young people’s skills, as well as for educational reform, could have such a beneficial impact?
Lord Balfe (Con)
My Lords, I follow all other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for initiating the debate and thanking him and his colleagues for all the hard work that went into this most valuable report. I declare an interest as an adviser and participant in an outfit called the European Foundation for Democracy, which is based in Belgium. It was instrumental in being set up by a now deceased friend of mine, Anne-Marie Lizin, a Belgian politician who, 30 years ago, was in north Africa promoting the very values we are trying to promote today. Part of that is that a European approach is needed to what is largely a European problem. It is not just a British problem. The European Foundation for Democracy believes very much in having a cross-cultural, cross-country approach.
I and the foundation welcome the report. We acknowledge that fundamental religious ideological beliefs are among the pull factors that encourage radicalisation of young people in this region, but we could have somewhat stronger recommendations on cultural and educational interventions that could be tailored alongside those in the report to help us to tackle the problem.
Although economic, civic and social factors play a role in violent radicalisation and recruitment processes, we should not forget the significant role played by ideology. Religious leaders and groups play a significant role in those communities. Their interpretation of religion is a key factor in driving people towards taking radical or moderate positions. Research shows that prominent jihadis come from the background of non-violent Islamism, the former exploiting grievances that are not necessarily legitimate as they can promote a utopian, sharia-based state approach that goes against the principles of the rule of law and fundamental rights. In such cases, rather than addressing the grievances and compromising on them, we should be promoting alternative narratives. For instance, I draw attention to the first draft of the Tunisian constitution, which mentions the complementarity of women with men, but after consultation and debate this was changed to the equality between men and women. That was done within that society as a result of debate about the way the different genders should be viewed, all within an Islamist viewpoint. It is possible.
We share the aim of devising programmes to strengthen democratic accountability and good governance and to promote debate and dialogue. To implement those, we should recognise and be ready to counter the ideologies that act against such values. The report rightly focuses on prevention. To do that, we cannot focus only on violent extremism. We also need to take a step back and look at non-violent, extremist ideologies. How is it that among the millions of poor and marginalised individuals from all over the world, some—quite a small minority—decided to embrace violence? We need to try to tease out the ideological triggers so that many people who personally believe in extremist ideology do not then carry that forward into violent action.
I have already mentioned to the Minister that I wrote to him on 13 June, asking whether he would meet representatives from the European Foundation for Democracy to explore how we can all work better together towards our common goal of a peaceful and prosperous community of equal citizens and well-adjusted families in a tolerant UK, Europe and world. I hope that he will agree to such a meeting, because I finish where I started, by saying that this is a European problem. We have much to learn also from each other and I hope that we will do that in combating this difficulty, which faces so many of us.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)
My Lords, my entry in the Lords’ register notes a number of engagements that would have an impact on this topic. I mention my role as vice-president of UNICEF UK and its role in supporting children and young people throughout this region. I deeply regret not being able to continue as a member of the committee throughout the inquiry, but I am delighted to see the report and the recommendations not only published but welcomed so widely over recent months.
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, on securing this debate and also for his comprehensive and passionate introduction, which I will try not to duplicate in any way because he says these things far better than I ever could. However, I associate myself with the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, about the role of women and girls and the need to have that dimension central to any strategy to try to prevent the growth of and actions resulting from violent extremism.
In the past couple of years or so, I have spent time in communities in Mombasa, Kenya where young people were being radicalised and recruited by al-Shabaab to go to Somalia and where programmes were diverting them from that cause, as well as more positively into productive, economic activity; in schools and prisons in northern Nigeria where similar attempts by Boko Haram and others were being countered by positive economic, social and cultural initiatives; in the IDP and refugee camps in Iraq—the issue of internally displaced persons there should resonate with us, as politics and conflict associated with identity clashes have resulted in the mass movement of people inside countries without the international support that refugees have—and, most recently, in Gambia following a visit to Sicily last summer, where I discovered that the third highest country of origin for the young people going on the boats across the Mediterranean was Gambia—such a small country—which I went to in February. I spoke to young people there about why they start off on that horrific journey: up through north Africa, to the hell that exists in the camps in Libya, and then the boats across the Mediterranean before they are then mostly—at least culturally—rejected in Europe as they arrive.
I wanted to bring to this debate a number of things that come from that experience. The first—I believe this very strongly—is that no one is born a terrorist or born a violent extremist. You cannot bomb or, through violent means, attack the ideas or grievances that have led people into that course of action, whether it is inadvertently or deliberately. The idea that we can in some way go to war against these young people and force them to change their minds and ideas by getting rid of their grievances through violent means ourselves is just wrong. We have to understand that we have to inspire and engage these young people if we are to change the course of action that they have adopted as a way of life.
My second point is that when I was a teacher I had a head teacher who used to tell the kids every year in the opening school assembly about stickability—that was his key word. He wanted them, whatever their level of ability or interest, to stick at it all year—to have stickability. I think we need more stickability in our international programmes in this area. I do not believe that one, two or even three-year programmes change the lives of adolescents. Donors across the piece, whether they are working in schools or prisons or trying to deal with the movement of young people across west and east Africa through north Africa to Europe, need to have more consistency and a more long-term approach to really make a difference.
My third and final point relates to peace building. When these countries go through a democratic transition, that is, yes, a moment of hope but also one of extreme vulnerability. Working with those young people to inspire and engage them is important but the international community also needs to work with Governments, institutions and organisations so that they are more stable, more open, more tolerant and more able to deal with the divisions in their societies. Our support internationally for these transitions to more democratic societies is not yet good enough and needs further attention.
Baroness Northover (LD)
My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Purvis for bringing us this topic today and the British Council All-Party Parliamentary Group for producing this thoughtful and extensive report. I pay tribute to all that the British Council does around the world. I am currently hoping that we can encourage the British Council back into Angola, but here we are looking further north, at the Middle East and north Africa.
A number of years ago, DfID shifted its focus to the poorer sub-Saharan African countries, but we now see the importance of investment in what the EU terms our near neighbourhood. What happens in the MENA region is important in itself but also has a direct effect on Europe, as the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, emphasised. Discontent, conflict and poverty in the region have been driving migration into Europe. Violence in the region has spilled over into our continent.
Yet, as others have said, there was great optimism and excitement when the Arab spring swept through the region. Regimes that seemed completely entrenched were suddenly overthrown. That enthusiasm for what might have seemed possible turned sour as those who rose up, divided and inexperienced as they were, were not well placed to take advantage of the overthrow of dictatorial regimes. It enabled others to take their place and made regimes very wary of similar movements. That can be clearly seen in Egypt; Libya descended into bloody chaos; and Saudi Arabia clamped down on dissent. Some positive developments can be seen in some countries, including Tunisia and Morocco, but things are very fragile, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, noted.
It is excellent that the British Council has sought to engage across these countries. Young people, better educated than their parents, with expectations that their lives would be different and with the information they could now glean from social media—something that had contributed to the rapid spread of the Arab spring—have often found that their opportunities are in fact extremely limited. Unemployment was and remains unacceptably high and, in such circumstances, discontent and disconnect are fostered.
The report emphasises that violent extremism needs to be tackled upstream. This is surely compelling, although it poses huge challenges, since only the thorough-going social, political and economic reform of these countries would be likely to achieve this. The economic challenges of the demographic youth bulge, high youth unemployment and the serious education and skills deficits to which the report points are difficult to tackle without huge investment. Tinkering around the edges will not do this. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, is surely right about long-term engagement—what he calls stickability. I note the need for research into the wider causes of extremism and how best to tackle them. Can the Minister fill us in on both the UK and the EU’s financial contribution to north Africa? I am not asking for the rest of the Middle East to be added in, as the huge investment into Syria and the Palestinian Territories will obscure what investment is going into north Africa.
The report concludes that fostering the economic growth of the region, encouraging investment and improving the jobs market are vital. So, too, is investing in education and skills, including for women and girls, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, rightly noted. The report emphasises the importance of higher education for the already educated Syrian refugees. Can the noble Lord comment on what is being done in regard to this group?
Clearly, corruption and injustice not only undermine young people’s view of their countries and their futures but make it difficult to encourage inward investment. Can the noble Lord tell us where the MENA countries are in the ease-of-doing-business tables—maybe the ones particularly across north Africa?
As we know from the United Kingdom—for example, as we seek to tackle destructive knife crime—systematic engagement is vital. Even so, young people do not necessarily calibrate things as we might expect. Getting them safely to their mid-20s helps. Serious engagement on identity politics and ideology, as my noble friend Lady Suttie emphasised, is clearly vital. It is not a simple economic matter. I was very glad to receive from the British Council its full response to the report. It is clearly well placed to play a key role here and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s reply.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for introducing this debate. I also thank all his colleagues on the British Council APPG for an excellent report highlighting the critical role of soft power in preventing and countering violent extremism in the Middle East and north Africa. The report makes a powerful case for tackling extremism overseas at its source by confronting the fundamental factors that increase people’s susceptibility to extremist ideology: economic problems, civic problems and social factors.
In an earlier debate on Sudan—not many noble Lords present would have had the opportunity to hear it, but the Minister did—I stressed that it is important to support civil society. It is critical to sustaining meaningful peace and dialogue for the future. I will do the same in a later debate—the one immediately following this one—because democracy is not limited to parliamentarians. Civil society, including trade unions, women’s groups and faith groups, is often the most important defender of human rights. It is the abuses of human rights that often catapult people into extremist behaviour.
In Sudan, UK aid has funded a £1 million British Council project to strengthen,
“cultural and educational development by building skills and capacity”.
As we have heard in this debate, the effect of promoting projects that build skills and support economic growth, encourage civic behaviour and strengthen community ties among young people can significantly counteract the underlying environment in which extremism is currently able to flourish.
I totally agree with the report’s conclusions that all our organisations carrying out this range of work, including the British Council, should collaborate to build a joint base of evidence of its impact to determine which interventions work best in which contexts. I certainly agree that the UK Government should work with the British Council to scale up its cultural, educational and civil society programmes in the region and I hope that the Minister will respond to the questions in that regard.
I have just a couple of questions to raise. In particular, I want to focus on the £1 billion Conflict, Stability and Security Fund, used by the Government to finance programmes in areas of conflict and instability. Concerns have been raised by groups such as Reprieve, as well as the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy, about the unpublished spending of the fund. According to both, some CSSF programmes could have led to human rights abuses, which in turn might spur extremism. Will the Minister undertake to provide greater transparency on the fund and perhaps ensure that we utilise it to promote exactly those programmes which we have been talking about and which are encouraged in the APPG report?
The other element that the APPG report has highlighted is climate change. Both CAFOD and the ODI have reported about the level of spending in developing countries on fossil fuels. What steps are the Government taking to ensure investment in sustainable renewable energy, particularly by DfID and the CDC? I am pleased to see the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Bates, here. I hope that in the next debate he will pick up these points.
The use of education as a tool to tackle extremism is well established and is discussed heavily in the APPG report. The Global Partnership for Education has provided grants totalling $8.4 billion since 2003. Unfortunately, the UK’s recent pledge to the GPE was lower than expected and attracted criticism from a number of development charities. I hope that the Minister recognises—I am that sure he does, bearing in mind what he said in the previous debate—the role that education plays in tackling extremism. I hope that he will respond more positively on the need to back up such programmes abroad and to give more backing to the GPE.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for tabling this debate, for his valuable contributions in the production of this report and for the role he plays within the scope of international development and foreign affairs. I welcome our exchanges during Commonwealth Week. I also pay tribute to the helpful work of the sub-committee of the All-Parliamentary Group for the British Council, whose report we are debating today. I add my sincere thanks to all noble Lords who have taken part in this excellent debate for their insightful contributions. While I have limited time, I shall seek to cover most of the issues, and on anything that I am not able to cover I will write to noble Lords.
Let me set out the Government’s approach to countering violent extremism. Everyone normally declares an interest before they begin, and mine is a ministerial interest. I was the first Minister for Countering Extremism appointed under the Cameron Administration in the Home Office. The noble Lord, Lord Balfe, talked about it being a European challenge; I contextualise it as a global challenge. That means that we have to work on global solutions.
While the threat from Islamic extremism receives a great deal of attention, the challenge also remains from extremism of other types. The rise of the extreme right that we have seen not only in this country but elsewhere, particularly in Europe, is also extremely troubling—and, yes, it also influences young minds. We must not lose focus on that. It is therefore right that the Government’s approach seeks to tackle all forms of extremism in all its ugly guises. This poisonous ideology uses narratives which often seek to divide societies, communities, faiths and people. It causes hatred among communities but often appeals to the most vulnerable young people in society.
The United Kingdom Government take a comprehensive approach to countering extremism. As noble Lords know, our priorities include preventing extremism at its source. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, in particular, will be pleased to know that we stand with and work with all our international partners and, importantly, civil society. An all-of-society response is required to meet this challenge.
Noble Lords will also be aware that on 4 June the Government launched their revised Contest strategy, which follows a fundamental review of all aspects of counterterrorism and its drivers. Violent extremism leads to terrorism and often, vulnerable minds are influenced to commit these heinous acts and crimes. We have an all-of-government approach, whether it is through the Home Office or ourselves—I am the Minister responsible for countering violent extremism, and for PV and counterterrorism internationally. We work hand in glove with our partners in the Home Office and across the Department of International Development. You can see how much we work in tandem. The noble Lord, Lord Bates, has joined us for this debate as well.
At this point, I want to quote the DfID Secretary. In a speech in April, when she talked about the Government’s approach, she said that,
“we will go further as part of cross-government efforts to directly tackle national security threats such as conflict, terrorism, violent extremism and organised crime. We will create new country-level programming targeted at specific communities and locations vulnerable to extremism”.
The Government are taking that joined-up approach in tackling this important issue. We share the view expressed by the APPG sub-committee in its report that it is vital to focus on the underlying causes of extremism. We need to tackle those causes, which often lead to young people resorting to violence.
Overseas, a key part of the work of the British Government is supporting projects that are designed to build young people’s resilience to extremism. Let me assure all noble Lords, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that we will continue to strengthen our close work with the British Council to create opportunities, build trust and provide positive pathways for young people to play a positive role in their communities—a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie. Too often, the emphasis is on negatives. We should also turn the lens to the positive changes that take place. In Syria, the FCO has supported the British Council’s Active Citizens programme—I am sure that my noble friend Lady Hodgson will be pleased to learn that—which gives young people the tools to make a positive difference in the marginalised communities in which they live. It includes the development in Syria of networks of young leaders, who will maintain peace between different communities.
The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about the evidence base when we act in this regard. Let me assure noble Lords that the Government draw on the latest evidence in the design and implementation of the programme. Indeed, DfID specifically looks at that evidence base for initiated programmes. On CVE, we are looking at understanding and addressing the context for specific drivers of violent extremism; that is being shared across government.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about the CSSF and its funding and transparency. I am sure he will acknowledge that where the Government see that these funds have been used in a manner that is not conducive to the resilience we want to build in communities—for example, in Syria, where we are lending support to organisations such as the White Helmets in helping to build resilience and human rights accountability—we will suspend that funding and carry out a fully comprehensive investigation.
In Morocco, we have also supported young people in marginalised communities to become active community members. As a result of our work, we have seen real progress in neighbourhood associations, empowering young people and encouraging them to build bonds of friendship—not just through what one would term “traditional channels”. We must look for broader solutions, whether through the arts, theatre, or—let us not forget, as the World Cup is under way—sport.
What are the drivers of radicalisation? I want to give a personal reflection. I grew up as a young Muslim, going to a church school and learning about different communities—some of all faiths, some of none. In meeting this challenge, we often pose ourselves the obvious question of why today’s generation is impacted on when other generations—such as our parents’ generation, if I were to personalise it—did not struggle with this. The challenge starts in the home, but so does the solution. We must also seek to improve capacities, not just in UK homes but internationally, to help parents to be part of the solution. They cannot be excluded from this.
As articulated so eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, this requires a one-community solution. That means bringing in communities and faith leaders, not leaving them marginalised, and making them feel that they do not just have a buy-in to the process but are intrinsic to it. That is why, as noble Lords will know—again, the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, will know this in the context of Syria and Iraq—we launched national action plans with other countries that focus on the issues of gender equality. Excellent work is being done across government on the women, peace and security agenda, where the MoD, DfID and the Foreign Office come together to build resilience, communities and opportunities in such countries. It is part and parcel of rolling out better solutions to tackling and countering violent extremism—indeed, preventing it. However, as the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, so aptly put it, it is about identifying those communities and the young people themselves. I was with the noble Lord in Gambia, where we saw how young people must be intrinsic to building the solutions. I assure noble Lords that our commitment to that is absolutely 100%
I turn to other countries. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and my noble friend Lady Hodgson asked about specific programmes. In Tunisia, we are working to improve the economic prospects of young people in a number of ways. We are funding an initiative to support young entrepreneurs by providing training and mentoring, to help them succeed. As the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, said, employment must be part of the solution. We are also supporting a pilot project aimed at preventing the problem of young Tunisians dropping out of school early, and at re-integrating those who already have. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, mentioned that 100,000 young Tunisians are impacted in this way each year. We must focus on helping their early learning. I have three children of my own. Children are receptive; their minds are like a sponge. However, I also echo the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, who spoke about coercion in the way we teach young children. The approach, tone and method through which young children are taught are equally important.
In Lebanon, we are supporting improvements in education for refugee children, to build their resilience against extremism. In the light of our findings about the link between conflict and radicalisation, in Jordan we have been supporting a Mercy Corps project to teach conflict management techniques in 30 communities where Jordanians and Syrians live together. This reduces the risk of intercommunity tensions and marginalisation. We are also working internationally. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about a PVE charter. I would welcome a further discussion with him in that regard, but I assure him that we are working closely with the UN Secretary-General’s initiatives on PVE and extremism. There may be an opportunity to see how we can tie this together.
My noble friend Lady Hodgson and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, asked about UK and EU financial contributions. The Strengthening Resilience in MENA programme represents about €3.3 million over 2015 to 2017, but I will write specifically to my noble friend and the noble Baroness about that. We also have a very successful project in Tunisia, a three-year programme funded by the cross-government North Africa Good Governance Fund, which is one of the alternative pathways that the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, mentioned. I totally align myself with the sentiments she expressed about the Young Arab Voices programme. In the interests of time, I will write to the noble Baroness about specific support to the British Council in areas such as central Asia.
I have received my noble friend Lord Balfe’s letter. We will be responding accordingly and I look forward to discussing his proposals in more detail. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, the Government are investing quite specifically in programmes addressing countering extremism in Iraq and Syria, and our project work is well known.
In conclusion, I concur totally with the sentiments of noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, knows my view on this: education is central to everything we do, but it is not just about educating young people. What is important is what we teach them, how the education is delivered and who delivers it. I thank all members of the all-party group for their excellent report and look forward to working with them on this international challenge, which requires an international solution. I remain ever optimistic; together we can defeat the scourge of extremism as it besets us.
International Widows Day
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Loomba
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to promote International Widows’ Day and to help widows following the finding of The Global Widows Report 2015 that their numbers are increasing due to conflict.
Lord Loomba (CB)
My Lords, I declare an interest as founder and chairman trustee of the Loomba Foundation and as the main proponent and instigator of International Widows Day, which takes place on 23 June each year. This is a very timely debate, coming just after that date this year. International Widows Day was launched by the Loomba Foundation here at the House of Lords in 2005. After a tireless campaign, the United Nations adopted 23 June as UN International Widows Day at its 65th General Assembly in 2010.
Now in its 13th year—its eighth under the auspices of the UN—the day is one for coming together and advocating for the rights of widows worldwide; it is a global day of action, raising the profile of widows and the awareness of their plight. From Kenya to Nigeria, and even in Australia, events have taken place to mark the day and give widows a voice. The Loomba Foundation held events in Delhi, attended by India’s Vice-President and its Union Minister for Law and Justice, and in London, attended by the noble Lord, Lord McFall, Senior Deputy Speaker of the House, and other dignitaries in the River Room. I was very pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Bates, Minister of State for International Development, also joined us. I thank him.
It may appear strange to some to have a day focused solely on widows, when International Women’s Day on 8 March covers all women, but there are very many reasons why 23 June was granted official status by the UN. In the early days of the Loomba Foundation there was little awareness of what was happening to widows—“invisible, forgotten sufferers”, as our 2010 book on the subject described them. The book, written with the sole purpose of bringing the issues that widows face to the attention of the UN, showed why such a day is needed. It is the precursor to the Global Widows Report 2015.
Back in 2010, there was no mention of widows and the problems they suffer in the millennium development goals. These problems are humanitarian issues on a global scale, from ostracism by their communities to ritualistic cleansing that is really nothing other than rape by a family member or by the community. Widows are often blamed for bringing bad luck to the family and for causing the death of their husband. Land is taken away from them and they are left without any means of providing for their children and dependants. Their dignity is stripped away and at what is a difficult and traumatic time in their lives, on the death of their husbands, they are often left destitute, without the moral and practical support needed to stabilise their lives. These rituals and cultural practices happen in many countries in Africa, south Asia and South America and in many other developing countries. It is for these reasons that the UN recognised that widows should receive special status, due to the double discrimination they face—not only because they are women but because they are widows facing even worse trials and tribulations.
I am pleased to say that today widows are being considered more thoughtfully by Governments, NGOs, stakeholders and global institutions. For example, the Supreme Court of India is currently considering a petition about the welfare of widows. Some 10,000 widows from all over India wrote to the Prime Minister for International Widows Day this year, asking for a widow’s pension. Another example is of a philanthropist in Nigeria who has announced a widows’ economic and empowerment project worth $500,000, while an NGO called Helpline Foundation for the Needy in Abuja has offered 5,000 widows interest-free loans to start businesses.
Awareness of the plight of widows and their children has increased since International Widows Day was established. I feel strongly that without more progress and action to tackle the issues that widows face, it is unlikely that the SDGs will be fulfilled by 2030. The UN, recognising this point, urges Governments to undertake:
“Programmes and policies for ending violence against widows and their children, poverty alleviation, education and other support to widows of all ages”,
especially in the context of action plans to accelerate achieving the SDGs.
Why is it important to consider the SDGs in relation to widows at a time when so much has been achieved in alleviating poverty and on other elements of the SDGs? Well, their numbers are increasing. As the Global Widows Report shows, since 2010 their numbers have risen, in particular due to conflict. The estimated number of widows in 2010 was more than 237 million, but that number had significantly increased by 9% to more than 258 million in 2015. More importantly, it recorded that:
“All regions of the world showed an increase”.
Three years later, with many conflicts going on, it is not hard to imagine that these numbers are still on the rise. The UN reports that:
“Vast numbers of women are widowed due to armed conflict”,
and that:
“In some parts of eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo, for instance, it is reported that around 50 per cent of women are widows, while there are an estimated three million widows in Iraq and over 70,000 in Kabul, Afghanistan”.
The World Widows Report for 2015, published by the Loomba Foundation and presented to the UN Secretary General and the Prime Minister of India, showed that there is a lack of reliable information on widows in many countries, including the UK. This lack of information underlines the low value placed on issues relating to widows and their children. For International Widows Day, I call on the British Government to examine and monitor the treatment of widows and their children in developing countries, especially with reference to local customs and traditions that discriminate against these women and hold them back from leading fulfilling lives.
I would like to ask the Minister what the Government are doing to promote International Widows Day and to help with the points I have raised. Widows need education and empowerment to make them self-reliant, and thus give them the dignity they deserve. Widows have done nothing wrong and in their moment of sorrow we should stand by them.
Baroness Stroud (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, for calling for this debate and pay tribute to the work of the Loomba Foundation as it works to highlight the specific needs of widows. Losing a partner will often be the most traumatic experience a person faces and can lead to detrimental effects on a person’s mental and physical health.
For many of the estimated 258 million widows globally, this grief and loss can be coupled with crushing poverty and persecution. For the estimated 584 million children of these women, this poverty can be extremely difficult to escape and can significantly affect the prosperity of the next generation. Around 11% of the world’s population live in extreme poverty, but globally almost 15% of widows live in extreme poverty where they are unable to meet their basic needs. The number of widows and the situation widows find themselves in are often symptomatic of wider issues in their society, and an effective response cannot fail to consider this within a wider context.
Countries where the number of widows is the highest are those scarred, as the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, has just said, by significant past or current conflict, for example Afghanistan and Ukraine. The Legatum Prosperity Index clearly demonstrates this—I refer to my interests as set out in the register. It shows that a lack of safety and security in a country is the most significant barrier to development and prosperity. The countries at the bottom of the index are those, such as Yemen, the Central African Republic, Sudan and Afghanistan, which have experienced significant conflict. For many women recently widowed in conflict, their situation will be compounded by the effects of that ongoing conflict. Many will become refugees and be at serious risk of being trafficked; 71% of the detected victims of human trafficking are women and girls, and it is known that traffickers prey on women, such as recent widows, who are not accompanied by men and find themselves in vulnerable situations. Many trafficked women may have started their journey as a refugee fleeing war, having lost their partner.
It is also no accident that many of the countries which find themselves in the bottom third of the Legatum Prosperity Index are among those with the poorest record on women’s rights, education and economic empowerment. It is evident that a nation cannot fully reach its potential when only half of its human capital is empowered. When women are unable to access education, are unable to join or strongly discouraged from joining, the workforce and their ability to own or inherit property is diminished, it is unsurprising that the loss of their spouse is devastating. In Yemen, women make up less than 8% of the workforce; in Syria, it is 14%. It is unsurprising therefore that being widowed in those nations compounds an existing economic issue by removing the main source of income with little recourse to making a living in a way that their society accepts. According to UN data, in 28% of developing countries, existing statutory and customary laws do not guarantee women the same inheritance rights as men, and many more countries have societal norms that hinder them.
When women lack rights and equality when their husband is alive, they are even less likely to be afforded them when he dies or is killed. Where widows are the most stigmatised, women are generally stigmatised, so the situation is significantly exacerbated by the additional stigma of widowhood. The Loomba Foundation’s work to empower widows by developing skills is one of the ways in which we can ensure that women’s lives do not spiral into poverty with the loss of their husband.
Attitudes across the world are slowly beginning to shift, however, as the economic sense of women’s empowerment becomes clear. During the genocide in Rwanda, more than 250,000 women were horrifically raped, but now 64% of parliamentarians in that nation are women—the highest proportion of any Parliament in the world. Women across Rwanda played a vital role in rebuilding the country. Gender rights are enshrined in its constitution and changes in law have given women the right to inherit land, share assets with their spouse and obtain credit. This is a key example, which other countries should follow, of the need for and potential of women and widows in rebuilding post-conflict societies.
It must be recognised that the journey to prosperity for nations has to be one of lifting all their peoples and empowering all members of society. The social and economic potential of women and widows globally is enormous. We must make sure that it is harnessed.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)
My Lords, I should note my entries in the Lords’ register, including my role as vice-president of UNICEF UK and my support for the Welsh-based charity, Positive Women, which of course works with widows.
I acknowledge the remarkable role of the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, not just in securing this debate for another year to ensure that we recognise International Widows Day here in your Lordships’ House but for the incredible way in which, over the years, he pioneered, championed and then delivered this recognition of the importance of the position faced by so many widows around the world. He first established the day without the support of the UN and then made sure that the UN came in behind it, so that it has become a global phenomenon. His courage and determination is inspiring to me and I am delighted to take part in this debate today, in solidarity with his efforts.
I want to focus my remarks on young widows. There is an incredible amount of data and important analysis in the report. The speeches by the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, and the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, have outlined a lot of the detail in the overall picture and I do not want to duplicate them. But I am struck by the fact that in a world where one in five girls will be married before the age of 18, and where many of them—perhaps a majority—will be forced into those marriages in countries that are susceptible to violence and conflict, the number of young widows today continues to increase rather than decrease. This is because of those forced marriages and the likelihood of their husbands being involved in conflict, which will lead to them dying and the women being left alone—in many cases, as teenagers with two or three children already by the age of 17 or 18.
When we reflect on the overall situation of widows, as described by the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, there is discrimination and inequity, rape and abuse, and the theft of their assets by members of their husband’s family after they are widowed. Given all these terrible things that happen, we can only imagine with some difficulty how much worse that must be if you are 15 or 16 years old. They then face a life with decades of exclusion and discrimination, being shunned by their society and in some cases barred from the ability to practice their faith locally. In many places they are not allowed to accumulate assets or even work, yet they have to look after the children who are the product of a marriage that, even if it was a happy one, ended so abruptly.
There is a real need to recognise that internationally as we work towards the sustainable development goals, as the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, rightly identified. At the core of those goals is the idea that no one should be left behind. Internationally, when people talk about that objective of leaving no one behind, there tends to be a focus on marginalised ethnic communities in remote places, or on marginalised people with disabilities in societies where there is little in the way of legal rights or the provision of services for them, or other groups that perhaps come to mind more readily. It seems to me, however, that these young widows are one such group—one that could so easily be left behind unless given a particular focus over the next 12 years through the sustainable development goals.
We need, therefore, to do two things. First, as highlighted by the content of the World Widows Report, but also by some of the statements and analysis published in the run-up to International Widows Day this year, we need to disaggregate the data—to work towards disaggregation—so that we get not just the total number of women who become widows, or the total number in poverty around the world, but the breakdown by age, which is a particularly useful tool in designing programmes and strategies to help young women left in this situation. I wonder whether the Minister thinks that is a good idea and whether we could influence the work going on internationally towards disaggregation of the data.
Secondly, we need programmes. I am struck by the new global executive director of UNICEF, who has made a particular effort during her first few months to talk about the need for UNICEF to do more with adolescents. While politicians, governments and international agencies have focused globally on the early years over recent years—as was noted in the previous debate—the importance of working with adolescents, in all sorts of difficult situations around the world, should not be ignored.
These young widows, however, who are essentially adolescents with children, and no legal rights in many cases, need attention from UNICEF and other international bodies. I would be interested to know from the Minister what we can do globally, either to bring donors together or to work to ensure, through our influence in the United Nations, that young widows get the attention that they surely need.
Baroness Flather (CB)
My Lords, I became a widow very recently. The only thing I have suffered from is a bit of loneliness, which is something all widows go through. It is not a big deal, actually, because I have your Lordships’ House and no complaints. Many widows, however, who have no access to lots of other things can suffer greatly from loneliness, especially in this country where there are no family links as there are in other communities. I have known widows who have nobody—nobody ever comes to see them. That is the important issue for the developed countries. Becoming a widow does not mean that you do not have enough to live on or are on the street, but it can mean that often you do not have people to look after you for your own sake. That is important, and it is important to focus on finding family links.
I will, however, just go through some rather more horrible things that happen in other places. In India, for example, a long time ago—actually not so long ago: in the 18th and 19th centuries—they used to burn the widow on the husband’s funeral pyre. Someone called Raja Ram Mohan Roy stopped that. He made the British Government stop the burning of widows. Another extremely important thing that he did for India—I am sad that he is not better known—was that he made sure that English remained a language in India. We should remember how important that has been for India. He was a great man. He has a little memorial in Bristol because he died there and at that time there was no cremation—the burning of bodies was not allowed, so he has a little memorial in the cemetery in Bristol.
Other horrible things of this kind are still going on, to a lesser extent. One of the most horrible is child widows. A girl is betrothed to a boy when they are seven, eight or nine years old. If the boy dies, she is left a widow and cannot marry again. How ridiculous and stupid that is. When I was young, there were lots of ladies who were child widows. They either worked in people’s homes or joined a religious community and spent their lives like that. When I remember them, I think, “What kind of life did they get?”. These things are still happening—not much, but there are still child widows, which is utterly horrible.
The main problem in India, as my noble friend Lord Loomba has said many times, is that a woman has no status. Once she becomes a widow, she becomes a non-person. She is not a human, she is something which has no position in society. If you are rich, it does not matter, but even the rich treat their widows very badly. If you are poor, you are sent to Varanasi, for example, to beg. You sit on the roadside and beg. You have no opportunity to do anything else. Some are taken into temples where they pray and sing at the right moment and get food for doing so. This is no way to treat any woman.
In many places in Africa, when the husband dies, if the woman has something in the house—objects, clothing or anything that can be used by others—the man’s family comes and takes everything. They will empty her house. I know this for a fact because I know women who have gone through it. Nothing is left. They do not have anything they can sell to live off for even a few days. These things are going on around us, and I believe that they will just keep going on. I do not know how you stop the things that people do to each other. We do horrible things, and one of those is what we do to widows.
Before my mother became a widow, my father had very bad dementia and was not in good health. She wanted to have a ritual prayer—I do not know how to translate it into English—for his longevity. She disliked him intensely: she had never liked him. My brother said, “What are you saying? The man is in no state to go on living. He is not enjoying life. He has nothing to live for, but you want to increase his life. Nothing doing”. He stopped her, but she was all ready to carry out a big ritual to keep him living. She was of course very upset when she became a widow, despite the fact that she did not care for her husband at all. She broke her glass bangles, as they do. The saddest thing is that even a woman who should be thinking, “My God, I am free now”—could not do that. I know that my mother-in-law felt that way, but then she was well off and never suffered as a widow because her children were good to her.
I will stop because I have to stop.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the speech of my noble friend Lady Flather deserves to be widely read. She has made a number of important points, not least about the position of widows in our own society and the way that toxic loneliness can affect so many people, particularly the elderly. One report suggested that as many as 1 million elderly people do not see a friend, neighbour or relative during the course of an average week. As my noble friend has just said, we all know from personal experience about the importance of family support in those situations.
I thank my noble friend Lord Loomba for securing this timely debate on the issues that women face when they are widowed. As others have done already, I commend him on his tireless efforts in achieving United Nations recognition of International Widows Day and for bringing the issues that widows face to the international agenda. I first met my noble friend in the 1970s at the Hindu temple in Edgehill in Liverpool, a neighbourhood I served as a city councillor and went on to represent as a Member of another place.
On Monday, as we have heard, at an event in your Lordships’ House to celebrate International Widows Day, Mrs Cherie Blair said that on first encounter it might be easy to underestimate my noble friend. Anyone who is aware of what he has personally achieved, and of the work which his Loomba Foundation has undertaken, would know that behind his shy, unassuming modesty are a consistency, tenacity and resolve that have turned around thousands of lives for the better.
International Widows Day, on 23 June, is important on many levels. It raises awareness of the injustices faced by many of the world’s 259 million widows—up, as my noble friend said, from 237 million just in 2010. It is also a way of improving their lives and of shining a spotlight on their situation. I hope that as a country we will do more in the future to encourage and promote it. The fear is always that specially designated days become rather tokenistic, but they do not need to be, and they can be used to spearhead public awareness and change. That is what my noble friend has tried to do. However, it is for the Government not just to settle on a day but to look particularly, as I hope the Minister will do, at what markers we have in our DfID programmes for establishing the totality and impact of spending on programmes on widows. I applaud the sterling work that DfID does to provide education and programmes to lift women and girls out of poverty, but I would like to hear from the Minister the facts and figures in relation to widows. What money is being spent and how is it spent to improve the lot of widows? When we know the metrics, we can then see what is being done and be certain that widows are not overlooked in international development and are not “invisible and forgotten” within the projections, calculations and minutiae of our foreign aid budget. That is an increasing challenge.
Through wars in places such as Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan and elsewhere, the number of widows is rising exponentially. In Syria there have been 400,000 fatalities, and in the Syrian Zawiya Mountain district alone—a string of about 36 towns and villages on a plateau in the Idlib governorate—one-quarter are widowed women. In all those areas of conflict, women suffer disproportionately, and widows even more so. Let us take Africa as an example. Earlier today, I, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, raised the horrific escalation of violence in Nigeria. Boko Haram and the Fulani militia are leaving a trail of widows behind them. I specifically referred to it in our earlier debate, and others referred to the treatment of those widows in places such as displacement camps.
That brought to mind a visit that I made to Sudan during the civil war, when 2 million people died. In Darfur, I interviewed a widow who told me how her husband had been killed by the Janjaweed militia. She graphically described how she was subsequently raped as she collected firewood to take back to the camp. I have also visited the DRC, where 6 million have died in conflict, and I have heard comparable heartrending stories from widows there.
However, as my noble friend said, it is not just about conflict. Ritualistic practices in Africa play their part too. When Clare Tumushabe, from Uganda, saw her husband die, relatives told her they were taking her six children, along with the land on which she grew her family’s food, and that she would become the third wife of her husband’s oldest brother. That is reminiscent of the points that my noble friend Lady Flather made about the situation in India. After refusing, she was physically attacked. Ultimately, she won a long legal battle and one of the men who attacked her went to jail.
There are other situations where women find themselves thrown on the mercy of others—for example, through de facto widowhood brought on by “wilful neglect”. By that I mean where husbands have abandoned their wives to their fate, left the family home and for all intents and purposes are dead. A few years ago, in my role as the honorary patron of the UK Coptic Association, I had the opportunity to visit a Coptic project in Cairo run by an amazing Coptic woman, Maggie Gobran—often called the “Mother Teresa of Cairo”. There, she helped de facto widows to get back on their feet again, to achieve a meaningful legal status and to be able to provide for themselves and their children. Often “invisible and forgotten”, and robbed of any chance of providing for themselves, they need practical enablement and empowerment, in line with the development goals. We need markers in national and international programmes to say precisely what resources are being set aside to provide elementary dignity.
Countries such as India are making strides to improve the position of widows, but the Supreme Court of India has rightly lamented the lack of interest in the position of widows, calling on the Indian Government to ensure that they are properly trained in skills in order to contribute to the life and prosperity of the country. At the moment, the Loomba Foundation is petitioning for further help for widows from the Indian Government. As my noble friend said, the case is to be heard in the Indian Supreme Court at the end of July. If successful, it will give widows special status as a minority group and allow them the extra help that they so badly need.
Like many, I was brought up to believe in the importance of widows, of orphans, and of aliens in our midst. It is a view shared by many faiths and by people of no faith. It is one whose principles I hope will guide Government policy.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, I would like to add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, not only on commissioning this debate, but also for the work of the Loomba Foundation, which shines a light on many dark practices, which I am sure much of the world is ignorant of.
Widows are often invisible, and the privations that they suffer are largely unknown. But let us face it—poor treatment of widows is not just confined to developing countries. It is found in the west, too. The noble Baroness, Lady Flather, spoke about the loneliness of widows everywhere. In America, widows with low educational qualifications can live lives of great financial hardship and insecurity. President Obama observed that many Americans were,
“one medical emergency away from bankruptcy”.
This is even truer of widows. Even here in the United Kingdom, the erosion of the welfare state and the 40% reduction in funding to local councils means that widows can be left to subsist on a fraction of their husband’s pension. There can be disproportionate suffering in the reduced care facilities and benefits.
But our problems in the west pale into insignificance compared with those of developing countries. We have organisations like the Loomba Foundation to thank for exposing the true extent of the problem. I have to say that learning about the way widows are treated in some parts of our planet has left me shocked and distressed. Cultural practices designed to further demean and even endanger the lives of widows abound in some parts of the world. For example, there is the so-called cleansing process, which has been widely documented across sub-Saharan Africa, where she has to drink the water used to cleanse her husband’s body—think of the Ebola epidemic—and perform sexual intercourse with another man, regardless of whether the husband died of AIDS or other infections. Dispossession, destitution and even death can await these women as the husband’s property is removed and she is married off to a male relative, or even cast out, with her children.
I do not want to spend too long describing the plight of these women and their children. Much more important is what can be done by a watching world to help them. Many customs in developing countries are illegal but, in a country of isolated and mostly illiterate communities, they need to know what the laws are, and there has to be some kind of authority to enforce them. Where no formal laws exist on property rights, government needs to pass them and ensure that those responsible for enforcing them, as well as those to whom they apply, understand that these laws override some of the old customs.
I have not talked yet about violence against women and girls. Last year, with VSO, I worked with NGOs and the police in Pakistan to encourage women victims to come forward and to change attitudes. It is a slow process, but who said changing attitudes and culture would not be? But in Pakistan we now have women’s police desks in police stations, and even women’s police stations. Widows have such a key role to play in all societies, but especially in AIDS-torn countries, where they may be some of the few adults left to care for children. They deserve status, and I believe that the strongest card we have to play is through women’s economic empowerment. If widows are equipped, and permitted, to make an economic contribution, they can cease to be seen as a burden and, instead, as an economic asset to the family and community. Very small investments—small to us, but huge to them—combined with education and skills training, can transform the future for both the widow and her children.
The UN, UNICEF, NGOs and Governments can work together to empower widows and raise their status in their communities from a burden to an asset. That is a win-win, for the widows, their communities, the economy and the world.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, for initiating this debate; it is because of his commitment that we have International Widows Day. I have had the privilege of participating in this debate in previous years. It is often a time to reflect on the journey that we have been on ourselves. My mother was widowed in the 1960s with four young children. When we talk about economic empowerment, it was certainly needed then. We lived in a tied house because of my father’s job and she faced eviction and searching for a job, but she had community support to ensure that she had that economic empowerment. She also had support because she soon joined a trade union and it was that sort of community that enabled her to continue the fight for women’s empowerment.
The 2015 report, raised by the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, highlighted the increase in the number of widowed women as a result of conflict and the severity of their living conditions as a consequence. All over the world, women and girls suffer the most from conflict and underdevelopment. In the MENA region, conditions are desperate—we have had many debates about this, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has been one of the initiators of those debates. We have also seen the widespread sexual violence inflicted on Rohingya refugees fleeing Rakhine state in Myanmar. The perpetrators, of course, act with impunity, something on which I hope this Government will always continue to push for action.
Successive UK Governments of different political persuasions have championed international women’s rights on issues including girls’ education, preventing sexual violence in conflict and family planning, an important aspect of women’s empowerment. It is important that we build on this record by using our influence as a country to ensure that the gains of recent years are not lost. The progress we have made is under threat, from the Trump Administration’s “global gag rule” on reproductive rights to moves to relax the laws on child marriage in Bangladesh. Many noble Lords in today’s debate have highlighted the problem of child marriage.
The denial of the rights of women and girls remains the most widespread driver of inequalities in today’s world. Gender-based violence, taking many forms, is a major element of this massive and continuing failure of human rights. While it is important to focus on SDG 5 on gender equality—as we have in this debate—the advance of women’s and girls’ rights manifestly makes a substantial contribution to efforts to meet all the SDGs: poverty reduction; improving health and education; and securing peace and security. In particular, on SDG 8 on sustainable development and economic empowerment, support for women and girls provides real opportunities to have choices.
As is often stressed by my noble friend Lord McConnell, we must ensure that the sustainable development goals run through all development priorities in all Whitehall departments, and ensure that the public priority given by the Government to women and girls runs through every one of the SDGs. The Government, through the national action plan on women, peace and security, say they will be putting girls and women at the heart of their work to end conflict in nine countries, including Iraq, Nigeria and South Sudan. We have referred to these countries in debates today, but can the Minister tell us how DfID will promote equality in countries beyond the nine specifically targeted in the national action plan, particularly, as raised by my noble friend, ensuring that no one is left behind?
The national action plan champions girls’ education, a crucial part of DfID’s activities in transforming the lives of those caught up in conflict and promoting global stability. DfID is of course targeting the poorest countries to provide 12 years of education for girls. What work is being done to replicate any successful policies from these schemes, to improve access, specifically to technical and vocational education, as a means of helping to provide employment for girls and women? We have heard about the impact of widowhood on young girls, but is DfID looking at older women, many of whom are widows, to remove the specific barriers to training and employment that deny them the opportunity of economic activity and therefore economic empowerment?
I conclude by repeating my mantra from previous debates: we must work with like-minded Governments throughout the world, but we also need to ensure that all aspects of civil society, including trade unions, church groups and women’s groups, are able to stand up and argue the case for full women’s emancipation.
The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, I join others in paying tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Loomba. I had the privilege of being in the River Room, along with several other noble Lords here, for what was a wonderful occasion. There were some really passionate speeches and lots of concrete examples and testimony of the work that the Loomba Foundation has been doing to help those in need around the world. We are all hugely grateful to the noble Lord for tabling this important debate in the week of International Widows Day, of which he has been a tireless advocate, helping to secure it in the international calendar against incredible odds.
It has been a moving debate. The noble Lord, Lord Loomba, began by illustrating how often, when people arrived needing compassion, they met stigma and rejection. He called for more data. He also talked about the progress that has been made in India and Nigeria. My noble friend Lady Stroud talked particularly about the crisis in conflict situations, about security and refugees in displacement camps. She also gave some positive examples of progress that has been made in Rwanda since the terrible genocide there. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, challenged us about young women, with his picture of how, because of early, forced marriage, they often become widows in their teenage years. It is almost difficult to comprehend that they could be both mothers and teenagers.
The noble Baroness, Lady Flather, moved us by talking about her own experiences: I am sure we all send our condolences to her, but also assure her of our compassion and friendship. She talked particularly about loneliness as a scourge on society and went on to give examples. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, gave some staggering statistics about the situation in Idlib in Syria. A quarter of women in that area are widows, and he talked about ritualistic practices. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt, reminded us to have an element of humility in recognising that this is not exclusively a problem for the developing world: we have our challenges here in the west about this, which of course is why the SDGs apply just as much at home as they do abroad.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, reminded us of the importance of human rights; that older women should not be overlooked or neglected; of the central role of women and girls and of their right to progress on all the human rights which were addressed. Widows are too often invisible. The noble Lord, Lord Loomba, and others have begun to make them visible. The UN estimates that there are 285 million widows around the world, with more than 115 million of them living in poverty. As has been outlined, widows can be particularly vulnerable and marginalised, facing stigmatisation and deprivations purely because they have lost their husbands. Once widowed, they often confront a denial of inheritance in respect of land rights, a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Burt; degrading and life-threatening mourning and burial rights, which again the noble Baroness referred to; and other forms of abuse which makes the loss of a husband only the first in a long series of traumas in their ordeal.
We know that children of widows are often deeply affected, both emotionally and economically, with the daughters of widows facing increased vulnerability to abuse. The Government are committed to tackling the harmful social mores and deep-rooted gender inequality that is at the heart of much of this cruelty and hardship. Achieving gender equality and empowering women and girls is the right thing to do and is in our national interest. The noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, made the point that no society can ever hope to lift itself out of poverty by leaving half the population behind—often its most productive half. It is at the heart of tackling the barriers and discrimination faced by widows and their children. It is fundamental to building good global prosperity and peaceful society. It is a key part of a value-based global Britain.
In recent decades, the world has made progress towards gender equality. However, we need look only at the findings of the report of the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, on global widows to know that we have not gone far enough and that special focus needs to be paid to reach the most marginalised if we are to ensure that no one is left behind.
The UK is an international leader on gender equality. In March, the Secretary of State for International Development launched DfID’s new strategic vision for gender equality. The vision articulates our commitment to ensure that we reach the most marginalised women and girls, which includes widows as well as other groups such as women and girls with disabilities. It also commits us to stepping up our work on gender equality in conflict and crisis situations. It outlines our commitment to continue the work of our interlinked foundations, which have had a transformational effect on the poorest girls and women, the elimination of violence against women and girls, access to sexual and reproductive health rights, girls’ education and women’s economic power.
It articulates our commitment to do more on women’s political empowerment, including to increase women’s participation in leadership, conflict prevention and peace-building processes. As noble Lords have often pointed out, conflict and war is the greatest destroyer of wealth that has ever been conceived. Women and girls are often more vulnerable than men at the front line, who are often armed and trained. This builds on our strong record of helping women and girls, which I readily acknowledge to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has been built on by successive Governments. We can all be proud of that.
The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked for details on what help had been provided. Between 2015 and 2017, UK Aid supported 9.8 million women with water, sanitation and hygiene programmes, and reached 7.3 million women and girls with humanitarian assistance. We are also reaching the world’s most vulnerable women and girls with emergency food assistance, education, financial services and large-scale programmes to improve their land and property rights. In Bangladesh, we have helped more than 96,000 extremely poor households headed by widows with cash grants for business, enterprise, skills training and nutritional awareness. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt, and others will be proud to know that 85% of the households we have supported have graduated out of extreme poverty.
We are also providing increased support to grass-roots, women-led civil society organisations, which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned and is also something which the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, urged me to consider further in the debate that we had on this subject in February. Through the recently launched Jo Cox memorial work we have a particular focus on loneliness, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, referred. I think that is a fitting memorial to that great parliamentarian who was so tragically killed.
Recognising the sad reality that humanitarian crises are increasing and conflicts are increasingly protracted, we are stepping up to help more women and girls affected by conflict and crisis. This includes large-scale programmes of support to Rohingya refugees, which will include funding for psychological support for women suffering from the trauma of war and survivors of sexual violence, to which the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, referred.
At the same time, we are investing in improving even further our ability to reach the most marginalised. In order to know who, where and why people are at risk of being left behind, DfID is investing in data which can be disaggregated on the basis of sex, age, disability status and geography, as the noble Lords, Lord McConnell and Lord Alton, requested us to do. We are working with other partners, including the World Bank, to improve statistics, which will enable us to know where help is most needed and where we need to empower vulnerable and marginalised groups, including those in need of assessment and programming. This is particularly important for widows, who are too often invisible in our data and often face multiple forms of discrimination.
We are also fighting for women’s rights on the international stage, helping to secure an ambitious outcome for the Commission on the Status of Women. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked us about the national action plan and which countries will be impacted by it. Through a number of organisations, which the United Kingdom Government are proud to be part of, we were able to raise it, for example, through the recent Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in London, and at the G7 summit in the first half of this year. We also work with our European friends and colleagues in addressing these issues through the Foreign Affairs Council. We will soon also hold the first Global Disability Summit on 24 July, where gender equality will be a cross-cutting theme.
In this way and across our UK aid portfolio, the Government are leading international efforts to accelerate progress to make discrimination and inequality a thing of the past for all girls and women, giving particular attention to groups such as widows, who are so often the most marginalised and vulnerable, and to offer them hope and a future in a world where no one is left behind. If we do not succeed, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, will be back again on 23 June next year to hold us to account.
House of Lords
Economy: Productivity
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Haskel
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the conclusion reached by the Economic Statistics Centre of Excellence in their paper Below the Aggregate: A Sectoral Account of the UK Productivity Puzzle, published in May, that some of the UK’s largest and most internationally competitive companies account for the biggest reduction in UK productivity growth.
The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, the Economic Statistics Centre of Excellence paper is an important addition to the evidence base, highlighting sectors where recent productivity slow-down has occurred. However, it remains unclear why this slow-down has occurred, why other sectors did not make stronger contributions to productivity growth before the crisis or to what extent this explains our long-standing productivity weakness.
Lord Haskel (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that this report, plus the further research from the Bank of England, indicates that our slow productivity growth is less due to the long tail of zombie companies but reflects the weaknesses of the business model applied by some of our biggest and best known companies—a model that incorporates share buybacks, high short-term bonus culture, and lower corporation tax and tax allowances that do not encourage investment. Will the Minister dust off the industrial strategy and review it so that these lessons can be learned?
Lord Bates
I assure the noble Lord that there is no dust on the Government’s industrial strategy. In fact, we have invested some £31 billion in a productivity investment fund for exactly that type of challenge. Moreover, we are conducting a further business productivity review, which is open to submissions along the lines that the noble Lord has referenced until 6 July. He will be aware, as a keen student of this area and indeed very experienced in it, that there has long been a UK productivity puzzle—that is why the centre titled the paper in that way—and it has existed since the 1950s and the 1960s. It has been suggested that, at a sectoral level, productivity gains are easier to make in the manufacturing sector than in the service sector and we have traditionally been a service area. We are far from complacent on this and are making progress on a whole range of issues to ensure that we improve our performance in the future.
Lord Gadhia (Non-Afl)
My Lords, the chairman of John Lewis, Sir Charlie Mayfield, has also examined the UK’s productivity puzzle and he found there is significant variability in productivity for SMEs. Can my noble friend say what support we are giving SMEs to improve their batting average?
Lord Bates
There are incentives for R&D spend. We know that things such as infrastructure and capital investment—we have had a patient capital review—contribute to improvements in productivity. We know that education and skills are a key part, and that is why we have T-levels and the apprenticeship levy. We also know that investment is very important, and that is why the capital breaks we have for R&D, particularly in small firms, are very important. But this is a whole-economy effort in which small and medium-sized enterprises, as well as the large companies, need to play their part.
Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)
Will the Minister respond to one of the questions asked by my noble friend Lord Haskel about share buybacks and, indeed, excessive dividend payments? There is a management culture that all too often seems more interested in the extraction of wealth than the creation of wealth.
Lord Bates
If that criticism were true, we would not see that the UK is regarded as the number one location for foreign direct investment and we would not see companies coming here in the numbers that they are. We have a great strength in our economy. We have an historic weakness in productivity and we need to look at all the possible contributions to that and address them; that is what this review is all about.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, I remind the noble Lord that foreign investment has halved over the course of the last year, so perhaps that is not the best statistic to choose. Meanwhile, manufacturing output has fallen for three successive months, construction output is 3% down year on year and the trade deficit is widening. We are pleased to hear that the industrial strategy does not have dust on it, but when do the Government think that some of their measures might actually take effect?
Lord Bates
On the point about foreign direct investment, just look over the past couple of weeks: we have seen Amazon announce 3,000 jobs in the east Midlands; a major biomass investment in Cheshire that will bring 3,000 jobs; and Vauxhall has announced the investment of 1,400 jobs in Luton. We are seeing record investment levels and a doubling of tech investment in the UK. This is all part of a strong, vibrant British economy that we are absolutely confident will continue to progress and improve beyond Brexit.
Baroness Wheatcroft (Con)
My Lords, businesses need long-term investment if they are to improve productivity. Does my noble friend agree that we need some sort of incentive for organisations to be long-term shareholders? Algorithmic trading is the absolute reverse of long-term investment, and there is far too much of it. We should have incentives for people to hold for the long term.
Lord Bates
My noble friend makes a very interesting point. That was the premise on which we undertook the patient capital review and one premise on which we set up the British Business Bank, so as to offer that kind of long-term patient funding that allows businesses to grow and prosper.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)
My Lords, what lessons did the Government learn from the very excellent paper produced by the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, on industrial strategy? What decisions are they taking to implement some of its recommendations?
Lord Bates
My noble friend Lord Heseltine undertook a review for the Government on competitiveness in 2012, which was a key part of what fed into our industrial strategy. The point that he made is that it is absolutely critical that we leverage our technical research and that innovation becomes a core part of what we do going forward. We totally accept that and recognise we need to do more. That is why R&D investment from the public sector is at its highest level for 30 years and why we are investing £4 billion in aerospace research and development; it is all to take forward those types of policies.
Lord Farmer (Con)
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of whether any quantitative Treasury analysis has been done on the effect of family breakdown and dysfunctional family relationships on productivity? If so, what conclusions were reached?
Lord Bates
First, I pay tribute to the work that my noble friend has done consistently to promote family as a key part of our society. We know the devastating effects that family breakdown can have on people’s health, well-being and educational opportunities. We have not conducted any piece of work in that specific area, but it is certainly something that I am prepared to look at and discuss with him further.
Lord Soley (Lab)
Why do the Government think that productivity is lower in the service sector than the manufacturing sector?
Lord Bates
It is a very interesting point. There is an excellent book that a long queue of people were trying to access in the Library by a certain Jonathan Haskel—he may be known to the noble Lord—called Capitalism without Capital. In it, he unpacks that we have not really invested enough in intangible assets, such as R&D, patents and intellectual capital within firms. He thinks that there is more to be done. It is a very live, very important, crucial debate that we have to have as a country. That is the reason for the review, the reason for the strategy and the reason we have £31 billion in the fund.
Boarding School Partnerships
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Farmer
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the Boarding School Partnership information service; and how many children who would otherwise have been taken into local authority care have been given places in state boarding schools as a result of the service.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Agnew of Oulton) (Con)
My Lords, Boarding School Partnerships launched last July and it is independent of government. The service provides information to local authorities on how to make placements in boarding schools. Statistics on referrals into boarding are not collected centrally, but I can report that this year the web portal averaged 700 regular users, 44% up on 2017. Between May and June this year, there was a 50% increase in unique visitors to the website.
Lord Farmer (Con)
I thank my noble friend the Minister for that encouraging reply. What plans do the Government have to stimulate further the use of boarding schools as an alternative to local authority care?
Lord Agnew of Oulton
My Lords, Boarding School Partnerships, working with Norfolk County Council, has recently published its findings on the outcomes achieved by vulnerable children following boarding placements. This showed benefits including improved educational outcomes and a reduction in risk of children going into care. Earlier this month, we organised a conference to bring boarding schools and local authorities together to publicise these research findings. Over 50 local authorities were represented at this conference and, while it is not suitable for all children, we strongly urge local authorities to consider boarding as an option.
Lord Adonis (Lab)
My Lords, I commend the Minister and his predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Nash, who I see in his place, for their excellent work in promoting state boarding schools. They offer outstanding opportunities, particularly to children from vulnerable backgrounds or from military families or other mobile occupations to have a high-quality and stable education. Does he have any proposals to increase the number of state boarding schools? There are 40 at the moment. It would be great if the country had at least twice that number. Would it be a good idea to increase that number, with an emphasis on providing places for children from vulnerable families or whose parents have highly mobile occupations?
Lord Agnew of Oulton
I thank the noble Lord for his question. It is extremely important. Indeed, in the study that was recently carried out by Norfolk County Council, a third of the children were placed in state boarding schools. Boarding schools can offer a holistic environment in which to grow and develop, and it is this stability that can have long-lasting, positive effects on children’s outcomes. We are open to proposals from the state system to consider more boarding facilities. From my own experience in a boarding school, I can say they are very important, particularly if one comes from a broken family.
Lord Nash (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend say how many of the 52 young people funded in boarding schools by Norfolk County Council were able to be taken off the local authority’s risk register completely, as a result of their experience and the benefits of attending a boarding school?
Lord Agnew of Oulton
I thank my noble friend for this question and pay tribute to the important role that he played in setting up Boarding School Partnerships last year. Almost three-quarters, 37 of the children, showed a reduced level of risk and nearly two-thirds moved out of a high-risk category into universal services. Overall, 33 children were taken off the council’s risk register. These outcomes can only be described as very encouraging. For the right child, at the right time and in the right school, boarding can present an excellent opportunity.
Lord Storey (LD)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that many local authorities had their own boarding facilities in the 1970s and 1980s, and sadly they were closed down over cases of safeguarding concerns. This scheme and the effect it can have on young people in care can be transformational—there is no doubt about that—but the numbers taking up the provision are very small. The Minister suggested how we might increase them. Local authorities have concerns and the Norfolk study, good as it is, followed only 50-odd young people. Do we not need to have a proper look at the cost benefit and the change it makes to young people, and then crusade about this and sell the idea to local authorities?
Lord Agnew of Oulton
My Lords, I very much take on board what the noble Lord has to say, and I respect his great experience in this area in particular. I believe my role in the Department for Education is that of exhorting local authorities to encourage them to consider this option. That is why we had the conference the other day. What was so uplifting about that conference was that, after the address from the panel members from Norfolk council, questions were asked for and a forest of hands went up. None of those questions was directed to me; they were all directed to the council representatives, who could speak of their experiences and show how they have overcome a lot of the problems the noble Lord mentioned—safeguarding has moved on enormously in the last 20 years. My role will be to continue to promote, and if there are blockages in the system that I or the Government can sort out, I will do my best to unblock them.
Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)
My Lords, I met last year with the Royal National Children’s SpringBoard Foundation and acknowledge the good work it does with Boarding School Partnerships. In many cases, there are positive social, care, educational and financial outcomes, but most children in care will have experienced some kind of trauma, and many have unmet mental health needs. The question needs to be asked: are boarding schools equipped to provide the sort of wraparound support that these children may need? Many boarding schools have an established culture of bullying, and the arrival of a pupil who is demonstrably different may play into that. What assurances can the Minister give that he will insist that all care placements are based on the best interests of the child, not the cost to the local authority, and certainly that they should happen only following a full assessment of the child’s needs?
Lord Agnew of Oulton
The noble Lord is quite right that this is not a catch-all solution for some of the most vulnerable children in our society; I completely agree with him. That is why this cannot be a centrally directed government initiative. The decisions lie with the directors of children’s services in individual local authorities. That is what I am saying and why I am encouraging them to talk to one another and ensure that they understand both the advantages and the challenges that they face. I will finish on a quote given by a young person to my noble friend Lord Nash last year, when we launched Boarding School Partnerships:
“What is clear from my experience is that the placement at a boarding school, away from all familiarity was, arguably, a gamble. But this gamble became the most successful move of my 20 years in care. It changed me forever”.
Inquiries Act 2005
Lord Shutt of Greetland
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to look again at the recommendations of the Select Committee on the Inquiries Act 2005 in its report The Inquiries Act 2005: post-legislative scrutiny (HL Paper 143), published in March 2014, in the light of the report by the National Audit Office, Investigation into government-funded inquiries, published in May.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, the Government agree with the Select Committee’s conclusions in its report published in March 2014 that the Inquiries Act 2005 and Inquiry Rules 2006 are fundamentally sound, providing a robust and effective framework for the conduct of public inquiries, but that some worthwhile improvements can be made. We welcome the National Audit Office report of last month but do not believe it has identified any issues that the Government themselves did not consider in their response to the Select Committee.
Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. The House’s Select Committee report on the operation of the Inquiries Act made several recommendations, many to save time and money. The National Audit Office’s remarkable report says that the Government have not acted even on the recommendations accepted from the 2014 report. One of our major recommendations—which was not accepted—was to set up a central inquiries unit. However, we now learn from the National Audit Office report that such a unit has been set up, but just for Home Office inquiries. Would it not be good, joined-up government if this unit were available for all government inquiries, wherever in government it is based?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, the Government agreed to accept 20 out of the 33 recommendations from his report. The issue about the central inquiries unit is an important one. The role of such a unit would be limited once the inquiry is established, and we believe that departments are much better placed to understand the operational issues relating to their policy areas. That is why the Home Office has its own unit, which functions very well—it set up four inquiries in a short period of time. However, since the noble Lord’s report, the Cabinet Office has strengthened the support it provides to inquiries, and there is a cross-Whitehall inquiries group which contains all the teams from the different departments to discuss learning and ways forward.
Baroness Hamwee (LD)
My Lords, the National Audit Office tells us:
“Since 2014, the Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Justice have committed to various actions to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of inquiries … None of these commitments have been fulfilled. For example, they have not acted on recommendations to share best practice … or update and publish guidance … There is no overall oversight across government for monitoring and tracking”.
The NAO also reminds us that,
“the government has spent at least £239 million on the 26 inquiries which have concluded since 2005”.
Given that expenditure, is this failure of departments to follow through good enough?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My Lords, I take issue with what the noble Baroness has said. It is not true that the Government do not follow through on lessons learned from previous inquiries. Indeed, the Cabinet Office has produced guidelines. They remain in draft form at the moment because they are being updated from lessons learned and the findings from the National Audit Office report. I have looked at the guidelines and I have to say, they seem very thorough. This was following consultation with stakeholders from previous inquiries. Governments will own the inquiries they sponsor, but they will have to follow that guidance, which will be finalised in very short order and published.
Elections: Electoral Commission Recommendations
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Cormack
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure the continued integrity of elections in the United Kingdom in the light of the Electoral Commission’s recommendations.
Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
My Lords, the Government welcome the Electoral Commission’s report on digital campaigning and will consider its recommendations carefully. In line with this, the Government will consult this summer on whether to introduce an imprint for digital electoral material and how such a requirement could be appropriately framed. The Government are committed to increasing transparency in digital electoral campaigning to maintain a fair and proportionate democratic process.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that response, but he will know that the chairman of the Electoral Commission has called for legislation. Will the Government give that careful thought? If so, will they make sure that the legislation also applies to the commission so that it is obliged to respond more expeditiously? More than two years after June 2016, we are still waiting for its comments on the Vote Leave campaign and whether it behaved responsibly or not.
Lord Young of Cookham
My noble friend will know that the Electoral Commission has made requests for legislation, particularly to increase the sanctions that are available to it. He referred to some commission inquiries. Last month, the commission published an inquiry into the activities of Vote Leave during the referendum campaign. He is quite right that there are two outstanding inquiries: one into Better for the Country Ltd and Arron Banks, and one into Vote Leave, Darren Grimes and Veterans for Britain, which commenced in November last year and, as I understand it, will be completed later this year. The Electoral Commission is an independent body so I need to be careful with what I say, but I am sure that Sir John Holmes will read my noble friend’s comments.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that our legislation on elections and referendums has not kept pace with technological advances, risks interference from abroad and is generally not fit for purpose?
Lord Young of Cookham
Yes; and I refer to the reply that I gave the noble Lord when he asked me the same question a few weeks ago. We have an analogue legislative process in a digital age and we do need to bring it up to date. I think it makes sense to wait for the outstanding court cases that are currently before the courts, the outcome of the DCMS inquiry into the impact of fake news on modern democracy and the reports to which my noble friend just referred into the referendum campaign. Once we have those, we can step back and look at the legislative framework and see how it will best be brought up to date.
Lord Rennard (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister accept that the excellent report published this week by the Electoral Commission into the need to regulate more properly digital campaigning in elections and referendums illustrates the advantages of having an independent body to advise Parliament on the need to change and modernise our laws to protect the health of our democracy? If so, does he therefore reject the suggestion in a report from the former chair of the Conservative Party a little while ago that the Electoral Commission could be stripped of such powers to advise Parliament?
Lord Young of Cookham
The noble Lord refers to the excellent report Securing the Ballot, produced by my then honourable friend Sir Eric Pickles—now, happily, my noble friend Lord Pickles. The noble Lord will have seen the Cabinet Office’s response dated December 2016 to all the recommendations made by my noble friend Lord Pickles, so he will be well aware of the answer to the question that is contained in this document.
Lord Garel-Jones (Con)
My Lords, do these recommendations contain any suggestions at all as to what can be done to be vigilant about Russian intervention in the British electoral process?
Lord Young of Cookham
My noble friend raises an interesting question. I think the honest answer is that all countries in the West have to wake up to a new form of conflict where military and non-military weapons are joined together in an integrated and dynamic way in order to achieve political aims. My noble friend is right: Russia is at the forefront of this so-called hybrid warfare, with a wide spectrum of capacity which has the potential to damage political and democratic institutions. That impacts on a wide range of government departments, and we have to make sure they are correctly aligned to see a proper response to this very real threat.
Lord Grocott (Lab)
Does the noble Lord, Lord Young, agree that it might be helpful for the Electoral Commission to direct its attention to an aspect of our elections in this country, namely the system of by-elections for replacement of hereditary Peers? Can he confirm that there is one taking place next Tuesday in which the statistics are as follows: 31 electors and 19 candidates? To make it even more absurd, the total number of people—that is, hereditary Peers—who can take part constitutes 0.004% of the electorate in Britain. Is there any electoral system anywhere in the world quite as ridiculous as this? Will the noble Lord please do the very simple thing, which is to acknowledge this and to support a Bill to scrap them?
Lord Young of Cookham
I commend the noble Lord on his persistence and ingenuity in campaigning tirelessly for his Private Member’s Bill. He refers to an anomaly. This was introduced in 1998. If it was so absurd, why, for the next 12 years, when his party was in office—when he, indeed, was Chief Whip—did he allow this anomaly to remain on the statute book?
Lord Rooker (Lab)
Have the Government had a chance yet to consider the publication this week by Bloomberg of a report relating to referendum night, when the use by hedge funds of secret, unpublished exit polling created hundreds of millions of pounds of profit, aided and abetted by the lies told by Farage about what he knew about the exit polls and the result? The use of secret exit polls to make money on election nights is a really serious issue that was not raised in the House’s Select Committee, the report of which will be published next week.
Lord Young of Cookham
The noble Lord draws attention to a debate taking place next Tuesday, I think, on the Select Committee report on political polling. That, I think, is probably the appropriate place to raise that. I have seen the reports. My understanding is that what happened was not illegal, because the information was not put into the public domain on election day, but I agree that this is an issue that could be raised on Tuesday. The Minister who has the good fortune to reply to that debate will have a slightly longer answer than the one the noble Lord has just received.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)
My Lords, further to the remarks by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, on the election of hereditary Peers, does my noble friend agree that there is nothing more arbitrary than the appointment of Peers to your Lordships’ House? At least those who are elected, even by a very small electorate, are sifted to some degree.
Lord Young of Cookham
My noble friend makes a valid point: there is a small number of noble Lords who can have some claim to democratic representation. Whether my noble friend would extend that argument to the argument that we should all be elected, I very much doubt.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
My Lords, perhaps I may pursue the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Garel-Jones, on foreign funds coming in to influence British politics. The Minister will recall that the Foreign Secretary suggested last weekend that the CBI’s receipt of EU funds discredited the remarks it was making. The CBI receives I think 1% of its funding from the European Commission. If one were to apply that test to Vote Leave, or perhaps even to the Conservative Party as far as Russian funding is concerned given the donations to it, it would raise awkward questions. Could the Government look at the requirement for even greater transparency in political donations, and donations to think tanks and charities of one sort or another, where foreign Governments and foreign sources, whether in the Gulf states or among right-wing millionaires in the United States, come in to affect British politics and society?
Lord Young of Cookham
The noble Lord raises a serious issue. I do not know whether he has had the time to read the Electoral Commission’s report on digital campaigning, subtitled Increasing Transparency for Voters, but it makes recommendations on the specific areas he raised. There are a series of recommendations about foreign involvement in the democratic process and recommendations about transparency on where money has come from, with particular injunctions on the social media to make it clear, when they put advertisements on their sites, who has paid for them. This is an important issue and to some extent it is embraced in the report I just referred to.
Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)
My Lords, have the Government considered what additional resources and capacities the Electoral Commission may need if it is to address effectively the difficult and complex question of abuses of digital campaigning?
Lord Young of Cookham
The Electoral Commission is not funded by the Government. As the noble Lord may know from his experience in another place, there is an Electoral Commission committee that sits under the Speaker. That committee in the other place is responsible for fixing the budget for the Electoral Commission. I am not aware that there has been a recent dispute between the Electoral Commission and the Speaker’s committee about resources, so as far as I am aware the Electoral Commission has the resources it believes it needs to do its job.
Business of the House
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Baroness Evans of Bowes Park
That the debates on the motions in the names of Lord Armstrong of Ilminster and Baroness Thomas of Winchester set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.
Nuclear Sector Deal
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I should like to repeat an Answer to an Urgent Question given in another place by my honourable friend the Minister for Universities and Science. The Answer is as follows:
“The Business Secretary is in north Wales in Trawsfynydd at this moment launching the nuclear sector deal. The industrial strategy sets out how long-term partnerships between the Government and industry can create significant opportunities to boost productivity, employment, innovation and skills. We committed to agree sector deals with industries that put forward ambitious proposals to boost productivity and earning power in their sector. The Government are today launching the nuclear sector deal, the fifth in a series of deals as part of our industrial strategy.
I should like to take the opportunity to praise the long-standing support and work of the predecessor of the right honourable gentleman, the noble Lord, Lord Hutton of Furness, who has helped facilitate the deal today from industry’s side.
The nuclear sector in the UK is an economic powerhouse currently equivalent in scale to the aerospace industry. It provides highly skilled, long-term employment for 87,500 people and is a driver of regional growth. Nuclear generation currently provides more than 20% of the UK’s electricity supply and its low-carbon reliable baseload power complements the growing renewable portfolio that is enabling the UK to reduce CO2 emissions in line with our commitments.
The nuclear sector deal announces a package of measures to support the sector as we develop low-carbon nuclear power and continue to clean up our nuclear legacy. This deal is about government and industry working in partnership to drive competitiveness across the nuclear sector. We will use this set of initial actions as a platform for future collaboration and investment in the sector.
The Government have notified Parliament of today’s deal by means of a Written Ministerial Statement, and have deposited a copy of the sector deal in the Libraries of both Houses. This is a good day for the nuclear industry and a good day for Wales, where we are focusing on small modular reactors that can help Wales become a world leader in the sector”.
Lord Grantchester (Lab)
I welcome the announcement and this nuclear sector deal, as it will become an important part of the Government’s industrial strategy. It is excellent news for the nuclear industry. Britain was the world leader in nuclear technology, and this has the potential to put Britain back into a more competitive position against other nuclear nations. I stress to the Government that they must deliver on their commitment, announced today, to achieve these aspirations. Huge sums are being invested by the US and China. Will the Government work with these very large programmes overseas?
It is good news for R&D and the international fusion programme at Culham, and for the development of SMRs. That there is a launch event with the Minister, Richard Harrington, in Trawsfynydd underlines the industry’s importance in the north Wales-Cheshire economy, where there is no hard border. Being in the north-west, I know this will be very safe. I ask the Minister whether Trawsfynydd will be the site for a G4 reactor. It is good news that emphasis will be given to innovation. If the UK is to be on the leading edge, the Government must commit the sums necessary.
I ask the minister that his department commit that the Government will look at all technologies in developing better ways for decommissioning and all technologies available for SMR, even established technologies, such as pebble-bed or HTR, which the Chinese will soon be commissioning as the first in the world. Can the Government give these assurances? How deep is the Government’s commitment? Could the UK become a centre for manufacturing?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I welcome the welcome of this deal by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, and I am pleased to be able to say how happy I am that he is happy that this is good for north Wales and Chester, his part of the world. I cannot give precise confirmation in answer to his question about Trawsfynydd, but I can confirm that there is new money coming in—money for advanced manufacturing and construction programmes from the Government, and money to invest in the national supply chain.
We also expect to see a 30% reduction over the years in the cost of new-build projects and also—very important for my part of the world, west Cumberland—reductions in the cost of decommissioning of some 20% over the years. This is a good deal not just for north Wales but for the whole country.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, we generally welcome this announcement, with some reservations. In the Minister’s introduction, not much emphasis was given to decommissioning and waste disposal, which take up a large proportion of our nuclear industry at the moment. Perhaps the Minister can explain how this sector deal will reflect on that.
The Minister also mentioned the number of people employed in the industry, but there is likely to be a shortfall in skills if the expansion, as envisaged by the Government, goes ahead. The need for developing more skills in this industry, as well as many others, is clear. Perhaps the Minister could reflect on that.
Finally, there is a terrible irony in this announcement’s being made in Wales. I feel another Peer twitching behind me because just this week the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon was scrapped by the Government. This was an excellent example of a renewable programme. Does this sector deal reflect on the Government’s cooling even further on renewables?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I was wondering when the noble Lord would get on to Swansea Bay. We dealt with that in a Question only the other day. I think there was recognition from all parts of the House, other than on the Liberal Benches, that it would not be wise to go ahead with a project that would cost the consumers of electricity—remember, it is the consumers who pay for that electricity—three times as much as Hinkley Point, which is not a good deal for the people of Swansea or those around it.
As for decommissioning, yes, that is very important. We will continue our work on decommissioning and, as the sector deal makes clear, we are looking, over the next 20 years, or by 2030, for reductions in the cost of decommissioning of some 20%. That is important.
The noble Lord also mentioned the number of jobs in this area and the importance of making sure that we both generate people with the right skills and attract people with the right skills to this country. That is something that we are aware of. Currently, the industry provides long-term employment for some 87,500 people. The deal will potentially support 100,000 highly skilled jobs, in locations from Cumbria to Somerset. We will make sure we have people with the right skills to perform those jobs.
Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab)
My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s Statement. It is the first positive Statement on civil nuclear power we have had for some time. It is a sad reflection that Britain was a world leader in this field and squandered that position, disastrously for future energy policy. Will our existing knowledge and future development of small modular reactors enable Britain once again to be a world leader in future nuclear technology? If so, the Statement is even more welcome.
Lord Henley
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his welcome for the Statement. Like him, I can remember an occasion when we were world leaders; we both know that, in Cumbria, we still are world leaders in what it has to offer. The noble Lord is right to call attention to the importance of looking at developments in modular reactors. I can reassure him that, as part of this deal, we are providing £56 million to support the development of advanced modular reactors.
Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)
My Lords, I welcome the Statement and, in particular, its focus on SMRs and Wales. I acknowledge the warmth of the statement made, too, by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester. I declare my interest as an adviser to a nuclear technology company. Can my noble friend the Minister confirm that the Trawsfynydd site is suitable for trialling more than one technology and that the focus on Generation III light water technology does not preclude exploring Generation IV molten salt reactors, which offer potential benefits in proliferation resistance, greatly increased efficiency and the ability to use plutonium waste as fuel, and are already in the licensing process in the United States?
Lord Henley
My Lords, I believe my noble friend is correct, but she will appreciate that I was informed about repeating this Answer only some 15 minutes before the House met. I cannot give precise details about the Trawsfynydd site at this stage, but I will write to her with further details. As I said, I think she is correct.
Lord Wigley (PC)
My Lords, as one who worked on the construction of Trawsfynydd in 1963, I welcome the Statement but perhaps I may ask the Minister for some further clarity. First, on the SMR programme, does the fact that the announcement is being made in Trawsfynydd today indicate that the location of an SMR reactor is likely to be Trawsfynydd? Secondly, can he confirm that the lessons experienced over a prolonged period with the decommissioning at Trawsfynydd could be the basis for a study of decommissioning in future? Finally, can he give an assurance that additional money will be available for training and education, particularly for institutions such as Bangor University, to ensure that local people have the skills and take up the jobs?
Lord Henley
My Lords, if the noble Lord was working on the site in 1963, it is unlikely that he will be offering himself to work there in any future programme.
Lord Henley
It seems the House would like the noble Lord to be working there; whether he wants to is a matter for him and his family.
As I said in response to my noble friend’s question about the same site, I am not fully up to scratch on this and it would probably be better if I wrote to the noble Lord with further details. As I said in the Statement, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is there, as is my colleague, Richard Harrington.
Lord Berkeley (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister welcomed the various technologies being proposed for future nuclear, but is he aware that the technology being used at Hinkley Point is a French one that is not approved, for safety reasons, in the power stations they are building in France or in Finland? He mentioned the cost of electricity in relation to Swansea Bay, but the cost to the consumer of Hinkley Point will, I believe, be one of the highest of any production we have in this country. Can he make sure that the technology for all these proposed future nuclear stations is proven before massive amounts of money are spent?
Lord Henley
My Lords, we have started on Hinkley—that is going ahead and I am satisfied, as is the department, that it is safe. The strike price there was on the high side, but the cost of other proposals being recommended by the Liberal Party—for example, Swansea Bay—are considerably higher and it is right that we look at something of lower cost. We are looking—I cannot speculate on what figures we will get to—to get lower prices for the site at Wylfa in Anglesey. We will continue to do this and that is why we want to go on seeing that 30% reduction in new-build costs between now and 2030. That is what the sector deal is all about.
Police and Crime Commissioners
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster
That this House takes note of the role and responsibilities of Police and Crime Commissioners.
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster (CB)
My Lords, the office of police and crime commissioner was created in England and Wales by the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011. The then Government thought that the system of police authorities, established in 1964, was too opaque and conceived of police and crime commissioners, or PCCs, as likely to increase transparency and accountability in policing.
There are 40 PCCs in England and Wales. They are elected for four-year terms and can be re-elected for any number of terms. Their main role and responsibilities are to secure an efficient and effective police force for their area; to appoint the chief constable; to hold the chief constable to account for running the force, and if necessary to dismiss him or her; to set the police and crime objectives for their area; and to set the force budget and determine the precept. Police and crime commissioners are barred by statute from interfering in the operational independence of the police. This system places heavy responsibilities on the shoulders of one person in each area: the PCC. Its success in achieving the objectives hoped for will vary from area to area. It clearly depends upon the relationship between the PCC and the chief constable. On this, there are presumably as many variations as there are PCCs.
I have come to wonder whether it is really sensible to have such important issues depending upon the personalities of, and relationships between, two individuals. There may be a risk that the relationship between a chief constable and a PCC can become too cosy, with the two people too ready to agree with each other for the sake of a quiet life. There is a danger that the chief constable may withhold, or the PCC may fail to require, information or advice that the PCC needs in order to be able to discharge the responsibilities properly. In neither case, it seems to me, is transparency likely to be improved.
On the other hand, if there is a relationship of mutual confidence, the PCC ought to be able usefully to advise, encourage and warn the chief constable without encroaching upon his operational independence. It is a difficult balance to be struck, and I wonder whether it may, paradoxically, have been easier to strike a right balance, and transparency and accountability may have been more easily achieved, when the chief constable was reporting and accountable to a police authority, rather than when he or she is reporting and accountable to an individual PCC.
I propose to concentrate this afternoon on the role and responsibilities of the police and crime commissioner for Wiltshire and Swindon in relation to Operation Conifer, Wiltshire Police’s investigation of allegations of child abuse by the late Sir Edward Heath, an investigation which started in the summer of 2015, lasted for more than two years, and cost some £1.5 million.
Such an investigation would normally be conducted in private and the results reported to the Crown Prosecution Service to consider whether there should be a prosecution. In this case, there could not be a prosecution, because Sir Edward had been dead for 12 years. On 5 October 2017 when the investigation was concluded, the Wiltshire Police published a summary report on its outcome and the then chief constable made a statement to the media.
That report stressed that the Wiltshire Police had scrupulously complied with official guidance in the conduct of the operation and emphasised the thoroughness and proportionality of the investigation. It reported on a wide range of interviews with Sir Edward’s friends and the people who had worked with and for him for many years, none of which seemed to have revealed any evidence to corroborate allegations of child abuse. Indeed, one of the interviewers admitted to an interviewee that the investigation was a farce.
However, three things happened which marred the process. First, when the investigation began, the senior officer of Wiltshire Police standing outside Sir Edward Heath’s old home in Salisbury made a televised appeal to those who believed themselves to be victims of child abuse by Sir Edward to make themselves known to the police. The immediate effect of this public announcement that Sir Edward was being investigated was to create a cloud of suspicion over his memory and reputation, and continuing public and media interest in the course of the investigation.
Secondly, in January 2017, a newspaper quoted the then chief constable of Wiltshire as saying that he was “120% sure” of Sir Edward’s guilt. If he had said anything of the kind, it would have been a gross dereliction of duty. The Wiltshire Police issued a carefully worded statement reiterating that the duty of the police was to investigate allegations and follow the evidence, but not to express any view as to guilt or innocence. But the damage was done and the effect was to deepen the cloud of suspicion over Sir Edward Heath.
Thirdly, in a report in October 2017, the Wiltshire Police disclosed that it had investigated 42 allegations. Of these, it dismissed 35 but said that had Sir Edward still been alive, it would have interviewed him under oath on the remaining seven allegations. It transpired that one of those seven allegations had already been examined and dismissed by the Metropolitan Police. Two others appeared not to relate to child abuse. We were left wondering whether the other four were equally unfounded but the Wiltshire Police had for some reason decided not to say so and left the seven allegations open.
Research on the internet strongly indicates that there had been a co-ordinated conspiracy to disseminate false allegations of child abuse by Sir Edward Heath and other high-profile individuals. However that may be, the effect of the Wiltshire Police’s report was to leave the cloud of suspicion hanging over Sir Edward Heath’s reputation indefinitely.
This is a profoundly unsatisfactory situation. Many of us are sure that Sir Edward was never a child abuser, that the allegations that he was are completely baseless, and that justice requires that he should be exonerated, just as Field-Marshal Lord Bramall and the late Lord Brittan, likewise subjected to baseless allegations of child abuse, have been exonerated.
The police and crime commissioner for Wiltshire has consistently said that he would like to see an independent review of the operation. The then Home Secretary told us last December that in her view, as this was a local policing matter, it was for the PCC, not the Government, to commission a review. As the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, has told the House, the PCC has the power to commission such a review and he has access to the resources required to fund it.
In January 2018 the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral—who I am glad to see in his place—then the chairman of the Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation, Mr Lincoln Seligman, Sir Edward’s godson, and I met the PCC to renew our request to him to commission a review. He said that he had been advised that a review could be commissioned either by the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse—IICSA—or by himself, and that he was considering that advice. He subsequently wrote a long letter to the chairman of IICSA, urging that body to commission a review. IICSA’s reply said that its terms of reference were to investigate how institutions and organisations had dealt with problems of child abuse; that it was beyond its remit to review the investigation of allegations of child abuse by individuals; and that, even if it was to change its mind about that, it would not be able to take on any additional responsibilities for at least 12 months.
We therefore repeated our request to the PCC to commission a review. He replied that he had concluded that Operation Conifer was a national matter and that IICSA was not only the appropriate forum but the only forum to conduct a review, and he invited us to join him in urging IICSA to do so. We replied on 24 April last that we were surprised that he wished to press IICSA to do something which it had told him and us was beyond its remit and that we saw no point in making a further attempt to persuade it. We represented to him that it was his responsibility—and, indeed, his duty—as the officer to whom alone the chief constable is accountable to commission the review that he as well as we wanted to see set up. The commissioner has not seen fit to reply to that letter. Is he thinking that Sir Edward Heath has been dead for 13 years and left no close relatives, and that, if he does nothing, the whole thing will go away? If so, I am afraid that I have to disappoint him. It will not.
This is simply not good enough. It leaves Sir Edward Heath in indefinite limbo, neither guilty nor innocent. The remedy of judgment in a court of law is not available. The only possible remedy now is an independent review by a retired judge or someone of similar independence and integrity. The reviewer’s primary task would be to examine the validity of the seven allegations on which Wiltshire Police said it would have wanted to interview Sir Edward Heath under oath, had he been alive. But the reviewer would need to be given unrestricted access to all the evidence taken by Wiltshire Police in case he or she needed to go more widely into the matter to come to a clear and satisfactory conclusion.
There is another reason for commissioning a review. Wiltshire Police did not emerge from this business smelling of roses. Public misgivings about Operation Conifer were not dispelled—if anything, they were intensified—by the summary report and the then chief constable’s statement last October. It is clearly right for the police to have operational independence but once an operation is concluded they cannot be immune from being accountable for the way in which they have exercised their operational independence or for the consequences of their operations. An independent review would establish what went amiss with Operation Conifer, help draw a line under the whole affair, and allow the new chief constable of Wiltshire to start with a clean slate.
The police and crime commissioner has said that he is reluctant to divert to this purpose funds which could otherwise be used to improve policing in Wiltshire. Of course, we understand that the police in Wiltshire have had to deal with the Salisbury poisoning, albeit with help from other forces. The sum required for a review would not in fact be very great in relation to the total spending of Wiltshire Police, and it would be non-recurring. But if that is a problem, the Home Office provided most of the funds required for Operation Conifer, and the commissioner could consider asking the Home Office to contribute to the cost of a review.
An independent review is the only way of achieving a measure of certainty and finality in this matter. It is the clear responsibility of the Police and Crime Commissioner for Wiltshire and Swindon, as the officer to whom alone the chief constable is accountable, to commission that review. Justice requires no less. Justice requires it, not next year nor at the Greek calends, but now: action this day. I beg to move.
Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)
My Lords, in declaring my interest as set out in the register, including the interest mentioned by the noble Lord as one of his successors as chair of the Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation, perhaps I may say how strongly I agree with every word the noble Lord has just said, and how strongly I congratulate him on securing this opportunity for us to debate his Motion.
My first-hand experience of police and crime commissioners is confined to my dealings with just one PCC, Mr Angus Macpherson of Swindon and Wiltshire. I am concerned about the way in which Mr Macpherson seemed to maintain no distance at all from his chief constable, who was supposedly accountable to him. He seemed to see his role as unquestioningly defending Conifer and the officers responsible for it, and he was seemingly unaware of countless and authoritative concerns that others had expressed—including in this Chamber, on all sides of the House.
Operational independence is vital, but it does not and cannot mean that the police are not to be held to account or that they are somehow above criticism. My major complaint is that, when I occupied the office of chair of the foundation, outside Arundells there was a public appeal for victims—I quote: “victims”—to come forward. If that was not a fishing exercise, I do not know what is. Of course, the option still remains for Ted Heath’s supporters or colleagues to make a formal complaint about the conduct of Conifer. Raking over those coals, though, is not in my view a priority now, however blatant were the shortcomings, almost 50 of which were highlighted in peer reviews by officers from Operation Hydrant. As the noble Lord has just outlined, there are just seven remaining accusations. I strongly believe that not a single one of them would have stood up.
I first knew Sir Edward Heath in 1965, when he came at my invitation to move a motion of censure on the then Labour Government of Harold Wilson, at the University of Bristol, on the very night that Michael Stewart became Foreign Secretary—which announcement was made to the world outside not by No. 10 but by Sir Edward Heath during the course of the debate. I got to know him exceedingly well, particularly when I was chairman of his Young Conservatives. Of course, there are still a great many people alive who knew Ted Heath personally. Some worked with him, some worked for him, and some were his friends. Others did not like him at all. He was not, in fairness, always the most clubbable of men. But what is so striking is that I have not encountered a single person who knew Ted who also believes it was remotely possible that he did any of the things alleged.
A man, a statesman and a servant of his nation who cannot defend himself has lost his good name for no good reason. Our law is not strong when it comes to protecting the reputations of the dead. Reputations take years to build but they can be destroyed in an instant, and we must not let that happen.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)
My Lords, I am not a lawyer, just a mere mortal who can smell an injustice a mile off. The case of Sir Edward Heath, a case that I have raised on a number of occasions over the past few years, is riddled with injustice. The Wiltshire police and crime commissioner Angus Macpherson and his chief constable Michael Veale have had major roles in orchestrating this injustice. To this day, despite FOI revelations, I do not know who was the manipulator or the manipulated. What I do know is that their victim has been denied all rights to a defence and that his international reputation as a former Prime Minister is trashed worldwide. The scale of this injustice offends every tenet of British justice. I personally never liked the man—I found him difficult and aloof when I was in the Commons—but my personal views are irrelevant. The man had rights, and what I find particularly shocking is the indifference of many—including, if I may say so, some in his own party—who have stood aside in wounding and deafening silence, making no attempt to rescue his reputation, although he is deceased. I say that as a Labour politician.
The question for me is, what do we expect of our public officials? My inclination has always been to trust them in the belief that they act in good faith and in the public interest. Theresa May as Home Secretary introducing the Bill setting up this structure told the House on the appointment of commissioners:
“We need a new approach ... the deal for the police is greater public accountability through police and crime commissioners”.—[Official Report, Commons, 13/12/10; col. 708.]
Sadly, it has all collapsed in Wiltshire. When Superintendent Memory stood outside Heath’s home announcing the inquiry to the world and appealing for “victims” to come, and when Mike Veale allegedly pronounced on Heath’s guilt, they destroyed all credibility in local police force objectivity. The question is whether Macpherson advised against those actions—because he should have done. That was his role.
Also, on 19 April the Minister admitted that the Government are not debarred from setting up an independent inquiry under the Inquiries Act. Why do they not do just that and announce that today? On 11 October last year, the noble Lord, Lord Blair of Boughton, suggested that the Chief Inspector of Constabulary had a role. Have Ministers followed that suggestion up? Most importantly, has Macpherson met his local crime panel to discuss the Heath allegations? Is there a public record of what was said within panel proceedings? Did the panel counsel caution or has it been ignored and kept out of the loop? I believe that it had a role.
In Macpherson’s letter to me on 13 June last year he stated:
“I am however in agreement with you that an independent review of the evidence perhaps by a retired judge is required. I am in discussion with the chief constable as to how this can be brought about”.
That was reiterated in October, again with FOI references to a judge-led review of the evidence. Within months, Macpherson had changed his mind, pleading limited resources. My question is simple: was he nobbled by Mike Veale and his PR people, Mills and Darwish? Finally, was there ultimately a disagreement leading to Macpherson reporting Veale to the IOPC for destroying police property, a fact that we have only recently been informed about? I believe that too many questions remain unanswered. So much for police and crime commissioner transparency.
Baroness Manzoor (Con)
My Lords, may I please remind all noble Lords that when the clock strikes four, time is up?
Lord Scriven (LD)
My Lords, I want to move on slightly, to a different police and crime commissioner, because I believe that by looking at individual examples, we can see some of the flaws in the system. I want to refer to the South Yorkshire police and crime commissioner. I declare my interest as a member of Sheffield City Council and a vice-president of the LGA. The police and crime commissioner in South Yorkshire has never had a turnout of more than 28%. It costs about £8 per vote, and on a recent survey of 50 people, only eight people knew that a PCC existed. Fewer than four could name him, and the rest had no idea of either the position or who was in post.
The key issue is not just whether crime is reducing and people feel safer, but that people feel as though they know who the individual concerned is if there is an issue with crime. That was one of the reasons why PCCs were introduced. In my city last night, another person was stabbed, and since March, seven people have been murdered. This city is described as the safest in England, yet crime, particularly violent crime, is rising. The reasons why this is happening are complex, but maybe one is the complete decimation of neighbourhood policing in South Yorkshire, overseen by the police and crime commissioner.
I contest that if we had had an elected police authority, as the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, suggested, our neighbourhood policing would not have been decimated. The police and crime commissioner—haphazardly in South Yorkshire—has passed budget after budget, including when the inspectorate of constabulary has been saying that it was causing problems with neighbourhood policing, which has been decimated. It has taken a new chief constable to talk the PCC round, and he is now re-establishing neighbourhood policing by taking budget allocation from different parts of the police budget back to neighbourhood policing.
The police and crime commissioner also sacked the previous chief constable by press release, based on a comment he made about the Hillsborough statement. That went to court and the previous chief constable won, costing the taxpayers of South Yorkshire £600,000. Those costs and legal costs could have been spent on policing. It is clear that one person is not fit to run a police service; a policy authority is needed.
I turn to the issue of openness and transparency, particularly police and crime panels’ scrutiny and questioning. My colleague, Councillor Joe Otten, who sits on the South Yorkshire police and crime panel, is desperately trying to ask questions but the PCC has ruled that members can ask questions only on an item that he puts on the agenda. So, when my colleague wants to ask questions about tree felling in Sheffield or about the court case, he is barred from doing so.
Can the Minister step in to deal with this? If not, who can? This is a blatant abuse of the democratic process. It is time to accept that police and crime commissioners do not work in the way they should and we should revert to police authorities, so that the community has a properly democratic oversight of its police force.
Lord Blair of Boughton (CB)
My Lords, I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, on securing this debate. I shall now widen it away from Wiltshire.
This is not an ad hominem speech; I am sure that most police and crime commissioners are decent people doing a decent job, and I certainly think that the noble Lord, Lord Bach, will be one of those. However, the creation of PCCs has had presumably unintended but certainly unfortunate consequences. It was an unnecessary reform; no one really knows why they were created, and certainly no one is claiming credit for their creation. The reform Act, which introduced PCCs, allows central government to wash their hands of controversial police investigations, as the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, has repeatedly said in this Chamber. Equally repeatedly, the Minister has said that the question raised by the noble Lord—whether an investigation should be inquired into—is a matter for the local PCC. The local PCC has equally often stated that they are not going to do anything about it. Apparently, that is okay by the Government, but it used not to be okay.
At one stage in my career I was principal staff officer to Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary. In the past, HMCICs would have intervened after consultation with the Home Secretary, as they did in the Stalker inquiry in Northern Ireland and the Soham murder inquiry. Equally importantly, HMCICs had the power to call out failures of governance. The noble Lord, Lord Dear, then an inspector of constabulary, three times in the 1990s declared Derbyshire constabulary to be inefficient—a finding not used against any force for many decades. This led to legislation replacing the then police committees with police authorities with a new class of independent members. This was a Conservative Party reform in the face of the failure of a Labour county council, based on the idea that police and politics—especially local politics—is an unhealthy mixture. The successors to the noble Lord, Lord Dear, do not have any authority over PCCs, whereas they could inspect police authorities.
The main job of the principal staff officer to HMCIC was to co-ordinate selection for chief officers. In the 1990s that job was managing down shortlists to five or six. Now the shortlists are two at most, even in great forces, because the PCC has almost untrammelled power to sack a chief constable by press release. With the advent of PCCs all centralised planning for career progression has ceased, as the Minister knows well because I have talked to her about it. The reason given for the introduction of police and crime commissioners was that police authorities were invisible to the public. Do you think that people living in Slough feel any more represented by a single PCC based north of Oxford than they did by a police authority that was based in the same place but which had Berkshire councillors on it? I do not think so.
A bit like the Brexit bus, the reform was partially also sold on a false prospectus that independent members of the public would become PCCs. Not any longer. Worst of all, leaders of local authorities—of all parties—are complaining loudly that their services are on the point of collapse. Where are the PCCs saying exactly the same thing? What was offered was supposed to be an exercise in the delegation of central government power, but it has turned out to represent an abrogation by the Government of national responsibility for a vital public service.
Every couple of years there is a defence review. Every few years there is a health service review. The last strategic review of policing reported in 1962. This is a total failure of strategic oversight by the Home Office. It simply has no overarching central and coherent strategy for the future of policing and, apart from some rather curious statistics about police numbers, Labour does not seem to have any voice in this matter either. This represents political failure of a serious degree for the public, the victims of crime and the men and women of the police service. The case for a royal commission on the future of the police has never been clearer or more compelling.
Lord Turnbull (CB)
My Lords, I have a long-standing friend who became a PE teacher. For 50 years he worked tirelessly to promote sport in schools and communities. He was the sort of the person we should give an MBE to. But two years ago someone went into a police station and alleged that he had been inappropriately touched by him after a gym lesson sometime in the early 1980s.
The police followed the guidance of Sir Tom Winsor, Chief Inspector of Constabulary, that the presumption that the victim should always be believed should be institutionalised. As a result, they spent little time investigating the plausibility of the claim or the integrity of the accused. In the face of hostile police and aggressive prosecutors, my friend was unable to prove a negative—that something did not happen 30 years ago. Rather than receiving an MBE he went to prison.
I and his many friends and colleagues believe that this is a miscarriage of justice flowing directly from the Winsor guidance. This guidance was severely criticised by the retired judge Sir Richard Henriques in his report on Metropolitan Police investigations into historic sex offences. He recommended that:
“Throughout both the investigative and the judicial process those who make complaints should be referred to as ‘complainants’ and not as ‘victims’”.
He then addressed the Winsor guidance directly. His criticism of it is withering:
“The effect of requiring a police officer … to believe a complainant reverses the burden of proof. It also restricts the officer’s ability to test the complainant’s evidence”.
He went on:
“Replacing an unsatisfactory state of affairs with a flawed system is no solution”,
and:
“The policy of ‘believing victims’ strikes at the very core of the criminal justice process. It has and will generate miscarriages of justice on a considerable scale”—
not just PE teachers but also Members of this House. He recommended:
“The instruction to ‘believe a “victim’s” account’ should cease. It should be the duty of an officer interviewing a complainant to investigate the facts objectively and impartially and with an open mind from the outset of the investigation … In future, the public should be told that ‘if you make a complaint we will treat it very seriously and investigate it thoroughly without fear or favour’”.
What part has been played in this by PCCs? Apparently very little. If you look at the published roles of PCCs, there are references to policing and crime but no mention of their role in maintaining the integrity of the judicial process by providing impartial evidence. It is not surprising, therefore, that the PCC in Wiltshire made no attempt to rein in an out-of-control chief constable. Crispin Blunt MP, who had sought an investigation into the case of a constituent whom he thought had been wrongly convicted, said in a recent Adjournment Debate that the,
“PCC has woefully failed to hold his force to account”.—[Official Report, Commons, 15/5/18; col. 74WH.]
When the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, stated in 2016 that the police should be neutral, he was criticised by a number of organisations and people, including Vera Baird QC, chair of the Association of PCCs. Sir Tom Winsor claimed that his guidance related only to the recording of crimes, but this is certainly not how it was interpreted.
I have three conclusions. The Winsor guidance should be withdrawn immediately. In any case, HMIC has no right unilaterally to overturn principles of the criminal justice system. The police should conduct their investigations thoroughly and impartially. Our system relies on the police being a neutral investigator rather than a continental juge d’instruction. If they are not impartial, our system becomes unbalanced. Finally, the responsibilities of PCCs need to be expanded to include the duty to maintain the integrity of the judicial process.
Lord Wasserman (Con)
My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, on securing time for this debate on the role and responsibilities of police and crime commissioners. I am very sorry, however, that the subject has proved so popular that Back-Benchers have been limited to four minutes. To judge by some previous speeches, I appear to be very much in a minority in your Lordships’ House when I say that I believe that, on the whole, PCCs have made an important, positive contribution to public life in this country. There are a number of reasons why I believe this. One of the more important is the increased attention that PCCs have given, and continue to give, to the needs of victims, particularly the victims of domestic abuse. But, in the very limited time available today and in the light of the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, I want to argue that, on the whole, PCCs have increased and improved the democratic accountability of local policing.
Despite some of the arguments that have been made this morning, I believe that PCCs of both parties and none have made it one of their key objectives to strengthen the links between their communities and the police forces that serve them. As a result, police operational priorities now correspond more directly, more completely, more transparently and more accountably to local policing needs. This is done in a variety of ways: through local surgeries, public meetings and old-fashioned newsletters, but also in new ways, through the use of social media and webcasts. In Essex, for example, PCC Roger Hirst held over 120 public meetings last year. In Sussex, PCC Katy Bourne uses monthly publicly accessible webcasts—known as performance and accountability meetings—to hold her chief constable to account for the performance of the force. Of course, the Sussex Police Authority also held the chief constable to account at regular meetings, but those sessions were held only quarterly and behind closed doors.
When there are public concerns, the default reaction of PCCs is to expose them, rather than hide them. In North Yorkshire, for example, PCC Julia Mulligan—who is also the lead on transparency for the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners—on hearing the public concerns about illegitimate payments to senior officers in the force, instigated a review. It revealed that the former chief constable and deputy chief constable both received £100,000 of payments from the police authority that had no legal basis. Against the advice of both the force and her chief executive, Julia Mulligan published the full report of the inquiry, as she believed that the public had the right to know how their money had been spent.
I accept it is not all good news and there may be problems in relation to particular officeholders. While PCCs have been good at holdings their forces to account, there may be weaknesses in the arrangements in place to hold PCCs themselves to account. My suggestion for dealing with these weaknesses is simple: I refer to the power of recall whereby, if a sufficiently large percentage of the electorate were unhappy with their PCC, they could vote to require him or her to resign and force an election for a new PCC. This is not a new or radical idea at all; it was considered very carefully by the coalition Government in 2010, when they were developing the legislation referred to by the noble Lord. It was rejected as unlikely to commend itself in another place. This provision would certainly meet some of the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, and I, for one, would support it as a further step in strengthening local democracy, devolution and community safety.
Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)
My Lords, it is already apparent that this debate has raised the opportunity for significant injustices and gross underperformance to be noted in this House. I declare two previous interests: first, as a founding member of the Metropolitan Police advisory committee appointed by the noble Lord, Lord Howard, in 1990; and, secondly, in a private capacity supporting the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, who is directly in front of me, for a number of years as an adviser to assist his progress as commissioner. I also worked with the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, and in the latter years with the noble Lord, Lord Blair, who also participated in our meetings.
One of the issues that affronts me in thinking about the role of police and crime commissioners is the inadequacy of the London situation. Whereas police and crime commissioners are present in other parts of the country, and their performance is therefore debatable—as we have already heard this afternoon—in London it is up to the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime. There is a great uncertainty and a vast vacuum of clarity as to who decides what about policing performance and commitments.
I want to focus specifically on the approach taken by policing in London currently towards the needs of ethnic communities, in particular the black-on-black violence that is evident in parts of London, let alone the fear that many young people have of the police themselves. Some of my own closest advisers who work in this House said to me last week that, had they relevant information about crimes, they would not take it to the police, because they know that they might be arrested themselves simply for bringing information forward. A case of this happened recently.
I want to cross a line, which is a difficult line to cross, in raising a question for the Minister to consider, and that is this question about operational independence. The website police.uk states that the police in all cases, including the Metropolitan Police—for which I have huge respect in particular from many years working alongside the noble Lords, Lord Stevens, Lord Blair and Lord Condon, when he was police commissioner—always aim to do their best. I have no question about that when it comes to the most senior ranks of policing and their decision-making authority and integrity.But if you are a young black person in London, you are four times more likely to encounter the criminal justice system than a white person. Your experience of policing and the criminal justice system is that it is significantly unfair and consistently unjust, irrespective of the negative aspects of many young black people’s own conduct.
In that case, the issue of police operational independence simply does not wash. It is one thing to say, as the websites say, that the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime is responsible for the performance and accountability of the police. How can it be responsible for performance and accountability if it cannot affect operational decisions? Those two things are a tautology, and there needs to be a new and distinct approach.
I wholly back the approach taken by my noble friend Lord Blair to say that it is about time we had a royal commission on the role and future of policing to think about whether this sacred cow of operational independence is sustainable in fearful communities who will not bring forward evidence to the police or who themselves feel that they will be consistently victims, irrespective of the integrity of their personal lives. It is about time that we addressed that old bogey, brought it to light, and possibly challenged it and changed it for good.
Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, on getting this debate going, but I will make no comment on the issues he has raised.
I have some form on this issue. Back in the 1980s, I worked for the Greater London Council when it campaigned for greater accountability and a police authority for London—which I was later to play a part in with the noble Lords, Lord Stevens and Lord Blair—and we were abolished for our sins. So when the Home Office published its press release back in 2013 saying that it would,
“return power to the people”,
and give locals a “strong voice” in the fight against crime, I could see where it was coming from. There is no doubt that the PCCs have been an interesting fillip to the extension of direct democracy and improved accountability.
However, it would appear that this “power to the people” has not chimed with the public. In the first set of elections, 14.7% of voters turned out, which doubled to 28% in 2016. It seems that there is a major lack of voter engagement with the PCC concept. When the public were asked in a survey, 72% of them said that they did not know much about the elections, and—a more appalling statistic—96% said they were dissatisfied with the Government’s arrangements for elections. It might have something to do with a distinct lack of government interest; the Government spent just £2,700 promoting the 2016 elections.
It is also worth considering the problems that have been flagged up regarding communication and engagement with the communities PCCs serve. It has been suggested that there is a lack of resource available for this type of work. But even without resources, PCCs should be making a concerted effort to use social media, websites and to make better use of face-to-face opportunities to learn about the big crime issues in their localities. It might also be worth political parties considering in future elections the shocking fact that, of the 41 PCCs, only seven are women and only one is black. If our leaders do not better reflect our society, how can we expect people to take them seriously?
One of the main reasons for the introduction of PCCs was the hope that they would lead to greater innovation and better management of the police service. We have seen some positives, which colleagues have referred to. I pay particular tribute to Vera Baird for her pioneering work as the PCC for Northumbria, and to my noble friend Lord Bach for the work he does in Leicestershire.
Overall, it seems that we need a better national benchmark of what a successful PCC might look like. If PCCs are forced to prove their effectiveness through target setting, as they currently do, frankly we are asking for trouble. There are already red flags appearing where such targets create a “gaming” of statistics in order to prove efficiency. Such targets also create competition regionally rather than promoting cohesion nationally.
That said, I think that PCCs should be left in place, as they have the potential to provide a greater clarity of leadership for policing. But they need to be held to account by a body stronger than the existing crime panels. Clashes between PCCs and their chief constables have demonstrated that, while the role is still in its infancy, it could be useful to have greater scrutiny from police and crime panels. We need a better understanding and assessment of how beneficial PCCs are and of ways in which they can be improved. As time passes and they become more accustomed to their roles, we need to ensure they are effectively held to account and provide the leadership required.
I have a few questions for the Minister. Will she take back the suggestion that the police and crime panels’ powers and duties are reviewed to better hold the PCCs to account? PCCs cannot possibly understand and cover whole force areas. For that reason, I would argue that the crime panels need to have a local focus. What better way than to turn them into community councillors? Perhaps the Home Office can consider that too.
Finally, I wonder whether we have yet got the issue of the operational independence and policy priorities of the service and force quite right. The PCCs have a handle on force budgets. In theory, they can dismiss chief constables—although they rarely do—but they can do little to affect priorities. In an age of austerity budgeting, this becomes more important. Perhaps I can invite the Minister to reflect on this point in her summing up and in any review of the PCC system that the Home Office undertakes.
Lord Birt (CB)
My Lords, as a young television producer, I encountered Edward Heath on many occasions. Indeed, I spent a few months making a documentary profile of him when he was Prime Minister. I have no hesitation whatsoever in supporting everything that was said by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, but I will focus on other matters.
Police activity at the front line is now intensively chronicled by television documentary makers. We see the police coming face to face, day in, day out, with, on the one hand, some of society’s most wicked and organised people and, on the other, some of its most highly disturbed and unsocialised. Overwhelmingly, police officers emerge from these programmes as heroic, patient and stoic, but as with all organisations, the police are not perfect. The present organisational structure needs addressing. Police need to share back-office and other specialist operations. You have only to witness a crime or be the victim of one to experience just how clumsy and chaotic some of the police’s core processes are.
The police lack agility. We have seen an extraordinary epidemic of knife and moped crime in the past few years. I stay during the week in a flat in Clerkenwell, which has the fifth-highest moped crime rate of London’s 654 wards. Last year, Clerkenwell reported 716 moped-related thefts. There is a narrow one-way vehicle cut-through near my flat. It is about 30 metres long and has been the scene of 82 moped crimes in the past five years. We are entitled to a bolder and more effective response from our police. Of course, the Met is accountable to the mayor, not a PCC, but these conditions are mirrored for many forces.
For PCCs, surely it is early days. Certainly the post has yet to excite the electorate and, like all change, PCCs will take some time to bed in. Like the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, I have seen a better picture: the police in the area of my country home have been galvanised by a new sense of meaningful public accountability to an active, elected commissioner with hire-and-fire powers. But government, working with the inspector and the PCCs, needs to put its foot on the police reform accelerator and identify the capacity needed to counter modern crime and disorder challenges.
That all said, the police cannot counter crime alone. They are but one part of a criminal justice system that has suffered grievously in recent years. The last Labour Government split responsibility for the criminal justice system across two Whitehall departments, and thus removed at a stroke the possibility of a coherent, system-wide overview. The coalition and the successor Government initiated ill-considered, back-of-the-envelope, disabling reform of the prison and probation services. I echo and extend the plea of the noble Lord, Lord Blair, for a fundamental and far-reaching strategic review of the criminal justice system.
Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market (Con)
My Lords, I feel extremely strongly about this matter, but time constraints mean that I can make only a few points. I want to concentrate on the Ted Heath issue. I declare a personal interest: I am on the committee of the Sir Edward Heath Charitable Foundation. I agree with every word that was said by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, and I am particularly grateful for the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.
I knew Ted Heath very well over many years. Going back a very long time, in the 1959 election, I was between two universities. I was chairman of the Federation of University Conservative and Unionists Associations and Ted was the president. I was called from Scotland to come down to see him in the beginning of the 1959 election campaign and he asked me if I was free to canvass in his constituency—to look after his ladies—because he was involved elsewhere. I will always remember him saying, “I would just like to introduce you to my private political secretary because you will be seeing a lot of each other” and he introduced me to this woman. He meant during the campaign but actually we married shortly after it and have been happily married ever since, so I have a very strong personal interest in this.
I then became head of his private office in the mid-1960s, including the general election campaign at that time. I was surprised not to be asked by Wiltshire Police in its inquiry about any of this because I very often spent seven days a week—not always Sundays—with Ted, very closely. I knew how hectic and itemised his diary was; those diary items are now in the Bodleian Library but were not looked at by the Wiltshire Police in its inquiry. However, it would prove how difficult it was for Ted to drop off anywhere and engage in some of the activities he has been accused of. We had a police security guard everywhere we went. We went all over the country, campaigning in cities and staying in hotels. There was always a police security guard in the corridor and when we went abroad it was exactly the same. There has always been police security in Arundells and I simply do not believe that the activity that he is accused of could have taken place with all that constant security.
Like others, I wholly support everything that the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, said, and I believe that the Wiltshire Police process has been deeply misguided. I too am shocked by the way in which the police spokesman appeared on TV. If you invite all and sundry to make accusations, knowing that there was no risk to themselves because of the cloak of anonymity, what do you expect? It is a botched process. The matter simply cannot be allowed to remain as it is. It is a gross injustice to one of our most distinguished and internationally respected statesmen.
The Minister, whom I greatly respect, will have sensed the strong feelings across the board on all sides in this matter and the necessary steps must be taken to put it right. I therefore entirely agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, said about having a proper, independent inquiry. You could put it back to the Wiltshire Police, who claim they do not have the money for it—£150,000 is much less than what they spent on their own inquiry—but it would be much better to have an independent inquiry by a retired High Court judge. I urge the noble Baroness to set one up and put an end to what has been such a big blot on our political landscape.
Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB)
My Lords, unlike many who have contributed to this debate, I confess that I have no particular experience or expertise with regard to PCCs, chief constables or Mr Heath, but I want to take part, first because I am a great admirer of my noble friend Lord Armstrong. I want to support him in this debate and, like others, pay tribute to him for securing it and for so cogently and compellingly opening it. Secondly, I noticed that there were no other retired judges down to speak, so I wanted to add my name to the list of those who, absolutely rightly, have deeply regretted the failure—still to this day—to instigate an inquiry into Operation Conifer, which has so cruelly left a distinguished, long-deceased Prime Minister with his reputation and memory stained, and which plainly requires a full investigation now to vindicate the position.
This matter was last considered by the House on 1 March in a Question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Sherbourne. I confess to complete puzzlement as to where exactly the Minister’s response leaves the final responsibility for the continuing failure to hold this obviously desirable inquiry. The Minister, who, like others, I greatly admire, referred the House that day to a policing protocol issued by the Secretary of State under the 2011 Act that undoubtedly enables a PCC to commission an independent review into a police investigation to help the PCC hold a chief constable to account. She also referred to the police and crime panel, sometimes referred to as the police and crime commissioners. They, as I understand it, are elected councillors and independents who replaced the old police authorities. Their function, as I understand it, is to scrutinise a PCC’s actions and decisions. Have their powers been invoked in this context?
A further body mentioned on that occasion, not by the Minister, was the Chief Inspector of Constabulary—the noble Lord, Lord Blair, has returned to that today—and as I understand it he might well have powers and responsibilities in this field. Under the Police Reform Act 2002 the director-general of the Independent Office for Police Conduct, which, I understand, replaces the old Police Complaints Authority, has a statutory duty to ensure that suitable arrangements are present to handle complaints against the police.
In short, one of the most troubling aspects of this case is that, despite the Home Office’s recognition of the compelling need for a public inquiry into this case and perhaps into other high-profile cases that raise closely related issues, no one seems able to nail the question as to where lies the primary responsibility for setting it up and still less how to enforce compliance with that responsibility. I for one shall not feel comfortable about the PCC’s role in the new overall policing landscape until this question is satisfactorily resolved.
Lord Bach (Lab)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a police and crime commissioner for Leicester, Leicestershire and Rutland. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, for giving me and the House the chance to debate these matters. When, in the spring and summer of 2011, I walked through the Content Lobby to support big amendments to the then Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, I did not think that, five years later, I would be an elected police and crime commissioner myself. I reminded myself of the Second Reading debates in both Houses and I must confess to being a little shocked at the strength of opposition to the establishment of this new system of civilian oversight of policing.
Was this opposition justified? It might not entirely surprise noble Lords to hear me say that I do not think it was. Taking away some of the natural political hyperbole, the underlying genuine fear was that police and crime commissioners would politicise the police in an unnecessary and in particular an un-British way. I do not think it has. Of course, most PCCs are elected on a party ticket—indeed, it was inevitable from the legislation that they would be—but in practice there do not seem to have been many, if any, blatant examples of party-political partisanship that would embarrass the community and the police force itself. I am proud to be a Labour police and crime commissioner and I hope that some of my beliefs and principles show through in how I do the job, but the notion that I can use my executive position either to do down my political opponents, with whom I have to work every day in my job, or even to work to try to persuade my chief constable and his force to somehow adopt my politics is frankly absurd. I believe, as do all my colleagues, whatever party they belong to, that one of the greatest strengths in our society is that its police remain entirely independent of party politics. Long may that continue.
My role is to hold the police accountable to all the people of Leicestershire and to deliver an effective and efficient police service. Frankly, I do not have much time left to spend on party-political shenanigans, even if I wanted to. This is not to say that this very new system does not have real problems. First, I am not sure that all chief officers have accepted the important role in the system that police and crime commissioners now enjoy and are bound by law to assert. Of course it was intended that there should be a natural tension. But, after more than five and a half years, there is sometimes, I believe, not just tension—which is a good thing—but a lack of understanding.
Secondly, there remains, as has been said, a democratic deficit that all of us, as police and crime commissioners, are doing our best, I hope, to reduce. Thirdly, I am not sure—and I say this to the Minister—that the Government really know what they want police and crime commissioners to be. Do they want them to be the elected champions of all the people in their force area, holding the police to account and partnering with others so that crime can be prevented and the criminal justice system improved? Or do they want us to be fall guys who can be conveniently blamed by the Government, which, I am afraid, continue to reduce their central funding to police year on year?
Lastly—something which I hope touches a bell with some noble Lords here—some of us have a concern that the workforce reforms, pushed at great speed by the Home Office and the College of Policing, will mean that many from deprived communities may no longer consider a career in the police, and we will lose that sort of police officer whom we all know, who may not have a master’s degree but has the emotional intelligence and the common sense—
Baroness Manzoor
My Lords, I am sorry. Time is up, if we are to enable other noble Lords to take part.
Lord Bach
I shall sit down, but I will just say that I am honoured to be a police and crime commissioner in a fine force with an outstanding chief constable. The jury is out as to whether this is a lasting solution to this issue, but I think it should be given many more years’ chance.
The Earl of Listowel (CB)
My Lords, I too thank my noble friend Lord Armstrong of Ilminster for calling this important debate and allowing your Lordships to hear from a former chief inspector of the Metropolitan Police and a current police and crime commissioner, and to benefit from the width and breadth of experience in your Lordships’ House. What most worries me in what I have heard so far are the concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Blair about the difficulties of recruiting the best people to the most senior roles in police forces. They are finding that it is becoming unattractive to take that role. Whatever one thinks of the current process, if it does not encourage and attract the best people to that role, it is deeply flawed and needs to be reviewed. I hope the Minister will take very seriously what my noble friend has said.
I have worked with young people on housing estates in London. I was even present as the police came to arrest a young woman who was involved in a burglary, a woman I was working with—but not at the time when she was possibly committing the crime. As we all are, I am interested in the welfare of our young people and in diversion wherever possible: diverting young people from crime. I think I am right in saying that some of the £8 billion that police and crime commissioners collectively manage can go towards diverting young people from crime. I would be interested to learn how that is audited, and whether police and crime commissioners are effective in their use of money to divert young people in particular from crime. Are they working effectively together across the piece as police and crime commissioners to do that job?
I want also to reflect on the process. Listening over the years as this policy area has developed, it has struck me that anybody working in the police field has shown little support for the notion of a police and crime commissioner model. It seems to be a theme of politics that, so often, innovations are made without consideration being given to the people who have the life experience, background careers and practice in the field of work. I may be mistaken and it may not be the right example, but when I speak to teachers who have worked for years in classrooms—with pupils, at the chalkboard—and who have a deep understanding of what they are doing, they tell me that they resent and regret being so little consulted on policy. They often feel like political footballs. In these areas so heavily to do with policing, I hope that those with many years in practice are given consideration in developing this policy. If it is true that the very best and most experienced practitioners are being put off by the current arrangements from taking on the most important roles, it is deeply regrettable.
Baroness Seccombe (Con)
My Lords, I add my thanks to those offered to the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, but I must begin by declaring a vested interest, as my son is the PCC for Warwickshire. Obviously, I have followed the role of the PCCs and recently attended a session of my local community forum. This took the form of a presentation followed by questions to the PCC together with the safer neighbourhood team. That included the officer, who clearly knew her patch well. She spoke of the problems that she had encountered and how they were working with residents to try to create a better and more crime-free, peaceful area. I was impressed with the scope of the work of the PCC and his team and the subjects included in his four-year plan.
I was particularly pleased to hear that the national association of PCCs meets regularly to share good practice, national issues and good initiatives. Here, I commend the determination of the architect of the police and crime Act, my noble friend Lord Wasserman, who assisted the Minister during the passage of the Bill.
In Warwickshire, I am impressed also with the objective of putting victims at the heart of everything they do, something often forgotten in the past. Living in a rural area, I was glad to see the emphasis on advising farmers and vulnerable people who live in remote areas of the need to safeguard their property and equipment. Warwickshire has developed a Gypsy and Travellers protocol, and all the relevant agencies in the county are signed up to it—a tremendous advance.
The subjects that PCCs cover are many, but engagement with all residents and communities is to my mind the main priority—consulting them and holding the chief constable to account. A good example of this is realising that the biggest concern was officers on the ground. Following consultation, all the extra money raised by the council tax rise will fund a substantial increase in the number in officers. Noble Lords may say, “She would say that, wouldn’t she?”, but as a resident, I am giving my honest appraisal of this comparatively new body which operates on a budget that is less—yes, less—than when funded by the county council. This body continues to develop, learn and flourish. I congratulate it.
Lord Bew (CB)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Armstrong of Ilminster for obtaining this debate and for his important speech in introducing it. In the case of Edward Heath, he will know that we have talked about this, and I was the historical adviser to the Bloody Sunday tribunal. The Cabinet documents available to the historical adviser made it clear that Sir Edward Heath’s responsibility for Bloody Sunday could only be nil. None the less, Sir Edward had to appear in court and undergo quite a vigorous cross-examination. The standard of justice he got in Northern Ireland was vastly superior to that which he received in Wiltshire, which we should be a little worried about at this stage of the proceedings.
On the PCCs more generally and their role, I declare an interest as being chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life. We produced a report, Command Paper 9057—Tone from the Top: Leadership, Ethics and Accountability in Policing, whose 140 pages I cannot possible summarise in the four minutes available today. It was an attempt to be fair-minded and objective. We heard in the press at the time, as many have heard today, stories of apparently erratic behaviour of police and crime commissioners. We also had many examples of very fine work. We tried to find a balance and to suggest certain reforms. Above all, we were determined to insist that the Nolan principles should have great relevance to the work of modern policing and of police and crime commissioners. The evidence that we saw pointed to greater professionalism and increased visibility by PPCs, as well as a widespread recognition of the importance of the College of Policing’s code of ethics, core policing values and the need for new mechanisms to support high standards of behaviour and propriety. Crucially—the point has already been made by the noble Lords, Lord Wasserman and Lord Bassam, and it is due especially to the work of police and crime commissioners perhaps in the north of the country—there is now much higher visibility in respect of crimes and violence against women in general and not just domestic violence. This is a clear-cut area of success and achievement.
However, there was also clear evidence of significant standards risks. One that the committee highlighted in its report and is particularly relevant to this debate is the continuing confusion over roles and responsibilities, especially where responsibility for governance ends and that for operational decisions begins. That raises key questions of scrutiny and accountability. The noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, who has done important work in this area, said that the accountability of police and crime commissioners was an issue, and I agree. He is also right to draw attention to the concept of recall. We now have recall for Members of Parliament. If in principle we have it for one type of elected official, I cannot see a strong argument for not having it for another. However, when recall was introduced in Parliament, the committee had correspondence with the then Prime Minister David Cameron, in which we said that, if we were to introduce this pit that an MP might fall into, we had a responsibility to ensure that MPs knew beforehand the ethical standards by which they were supposed to live and that it was important to have proper induction, so that the rules and obligations were clear. To the credit of that Prime Minister, he accepted the point completely and supported the committee in this regard. If that is true for MPs who may face recall, it should be true for police and crime commissioners. There must be proper provision of induction courses that explain all the ethical risks and pitfalls that might exist.
When we were going around the country and talking to police and crime commissioners, I was slightly disappointed in respect of this final point. The Nolan principles should apply nationally. We quite understand that the PCCs experiment is all about creative localism and we respect that, but that should not create a context in which police and crime commissioners can evade their commitment to the Nolan principles of accountability above all in public life.
Baroness Meacher (CB)
My Lords, along with all my colleagues, I applaud the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, for proposing this debate and winning the ballot. I fully support his position in relation to Wiltshire.
I have to confess that when police and crime commissioners were introduced, in a Bill in this House, I was highly suspicious of the whole idea, but I have come to realise that they can be—although they are not always—a force for good. Clearly, they all need to learn from the terrible situation in Wiltshire, and, indeed, the other warnings that noble Lords have given this morning. I have been particularly impressed by Ron Hogg, the PCC for the Durham constabulary. He and Mike Barton, the chief constable, have shown that a PCC can think outside the box and support his chief constable to follow sensible but radical policies. If I dare say it, I think that chief constables can be a bit conformist. I am surrounded by three former chief constables and feel a bit hemmed in here—I do not want to misbehave.
Baroness Meacher
I want to talk about Durham police service’s excellent drug policies—that will be no surprise to anybody—in the context of the recognition of Durham as the leading police service in this country. For three years Durham has achieved an “outstanding” rating for effectiveness in reducing crime and keeping communities safe, and Durham has the third-highest level of public confidence of all police forces. This outstanding performance has been achieved while leading the way with policies that could be described as being soft on drug users and even soft on low-level drug dealers, something I think police services generally are not keen to be reputed to support.
PCC Ron Hogg continues to call for drugs to be decriminalised, so that users will not fear being treated as criminals when considering whether to seek medical advice to help with their addiction. Portugal has proved the success of this policy over 20 years and I think we need to take it seriously. Increasingly, other PCCs are supporting the call for drug policy reform and this has to be welcomed. Durham has lots of other innovative programmes and I shall refer to just two. The Checkpoint diversion scheme has reduced reoffending by about 10%, releasing resources, of course, for more police officers. Under the Checkpoint initiative, introduced in 2015, offenders are selected for diversion to non-criminal justice interventions. The chief constable, Mike Barton, has proposed putting all drug addicts who are arrested through Checkpoint in order to stabilise their lives and get them into treatment. Even some low-level dealers and those caught up at a low level in trafficking are included in Checkpoint: this is really radical stuff, I would say. These people will have been intimidated, pressured or coerced into working for the big guys—we all know about that. This is truly humane, but again, it is a massive resources issue.
Durham’s other target for reform is long-term heroin users: it recommends heroin assisted treatment centres, pioneered very successfully in Switzerland. This programme is costly but highly cost effective. On average, heroin addicts commit 80 crimes a month, according to the Swiss research. Does not treatment, rather than locking someone up in a cell, sound like a good idea for this group? The new Home Secretary has made clear his determination to achieve reform, at least for medical cannabis. I hope our Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, will invite the Home Secretary to visit Durham police, if he has not already done so, and urge him to encourage all PCCs and their chief constables to follow Durham’s example. He could cut crime drastically and save huge resources, as well as saving lives.
Lord Marlesford (Con)
My Lords, I completely support and agree with everything that the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, said. One useful thing that has come out of this debate is that it is clear that the PCC system, which I support, needs some modification. A great deal more care needs to be taken over a new system for selecting the candidates: the sort of people who should become PCCs.
I want to refer to the case of Edward Heath. I first knew him when he was shadow Chancellor and I was working in the Conservative Research Department. Along with my noble friend Lord Cope I worked for him on the 1965 Finance Bill. Subsequently I knew him when he was Prime Minister and I was working in Whitehall. There are very few people in my life for whom I would put my hand in the fire for their total integrity and personal morality. Ted Heath is one of them. What confuses me is the reluctance of the Home Office to accept widespread advice that an independent inquiry is needed. Now the police and crime commissioner for Wiltshire has refused to do his duty. I assume he has good reasons for doing so and I suggest that those reasons themselves should be brought into the public domain. Now that we know that we need a public inquiry, why is the Home Office being so difficult? I fear that I have a great suspicion of the Home Office itself.
It is awful to say it, but the Home Office has been shown, in part of its organisation, to be deeply corrupt. It is deplorable, but I have asked Parliamentary Questions and the Home Office has revealed that numerous members of its Civil Service staff have been convicted of serious criminal offences in relation to their duties. More recently, it has been very reluctant to disclose the names of those concerned. In January 2012 my noble friend Lord Henley, and in August 2013 my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach revealed in Written Answers that there had been 37 convictions of Home Office staff, most of whom went to prison, sometimes for long periods of up to nine years. Their names were given in those Parliamentary Answers. On 1 June my noble friend Lady Williams gave a further Written Answer adding 22 cases to the list, but she refused to give the names of those concerned to protect the statutory and data protection obligations. These people were convicted in open court and their names therefore should be open to the media, and are. Indeed, the most recent case was of someone called Shamsu Iqbal, who in April this year was sent to prison for 11 years for assisting unlawful immigration in a case on which millions of pounds of public money was spent. This illustrates why we must have a public inquiry by a retired judge into the case of Wiltshire Police and Sir Edward Heath.
Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)
My Lords, like my noble friend Lady Meacher, I was sceptical about the 2011 legislation because I did not like the idea of giving so much power over policing to an individual appointed with a party political label. I thoroughly accept what the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said about the efforts of police and crime commissioners to maintain their neutrality, on which they have to take an oath, but it seems to me that requiring someone who is a party-affiliated commissioner to be entirely neutral is like trying to make water run uphill, so I remain sceptical about it.
Obviously, there has been much reference to the case of Wiltshire Police. I want to add this: if somebody with no public name had been subjected to the sort of treatment that Operation Conifer gave to the memory of Sir Edward Heath, such a person would have been entitled to a review, but figures with the public profile of Sir Edward are clearly in a particularly vulnerable position. Like my noble friend Lord Armstrong, I find the refusal of the police and crime commissioner for Wiltshire to initiate the review which would provide redress to the memory of Sir Edward Heath utterly incomprehensible.
I also endorse what my noble friend Lord Blair has said about the responsibility of the Government. The Government have so far declined to launch an investigation into the conduct of Operation Conifer on the grounds that it is a matter for the Wiltshire police and crime commissioner. However, the besmirching of the reputation of a former Prime Minister is not just a local issue for Wiltshire, it is a national issue.
The Minister admitted to me in answer to a Question that the Home Office has the powers to initiate an investigation but has so far chosen not to do so. Will she ask her right honourable friend the new Home Secretary to look at this again and either press the police and crime commissioner for Wiltshire to reverse his decision—if necessary by providing the resources for an investigation—or, since that decision was taken on demonstrably false grounds, will the Home Office take on its responsibility to put this matter right?
Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)
My Lords, as many noble Lords have said, Operation Conifer has created a climate of suspicion around Sir Edward Heath even though we have seen no evidence of any credible allegations made against him. This is why I and many others have called for an independent investigation into Operation Conifer.
When I asked the Minister on 19 April whether the Home Office would establish such an inquiry, she replied:
“an inquiry … should be considered only where other available investigatory mechanisms would not be sufficient”.—[Official Report, 19/4/18; col. 1247.]
Let me list what those other investigatory mechanisms are. Here I have the Cabinet Secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, to thank, because in January this year he wrote to me listing who could establish an enquiry. First, he said that a police and crime commissioner can commission an independent review into an investigation conducted by that police force, but the Wiltshire PCC refused, as we know, so it has not happened. Secondly, the Independent Police Complaints Commission can investigate a matter that has been referred to it, but no relevant referral has been made. The Home Secretary does not have the power to direct it to investigate a police force, so that has not happened. Thirdly, the Secretary of State can require Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary to undertake an inspection of a specific police force, but this has not happened. Fourthly, the police and crime commissioner can request that Her Majesty’s Inspectorate carries out an inspection into the activities of its police force. But he has not, so this has not happened.
Let me repeat what the Minister said in April: an inquiry should be considered only in the absence of other investigatory mechanisms. Well, they are absent. I can come to the aid of the Home Office here, thanks again to Sir Jeremy Heywood. This is what he said in his letter:
“the Government has the authority to establish an independent public inquiry … where it appears to [a Minister] that (a) particular events have caused ... public concern”.
He goes on:
“The Government also has the authority to establish a non- statutory inquiry in the form of an ad hoc inquiry.”
So there is now no excuse for the Home Office to say no to an inquiry. I say the Home Office deliberately because I believe that the Minister, for whom I have the greatest respect, genuinely understands the sentiments that I and others have expressed.
We have a new Home Secretary who has already shown his willingness to grasp difficult nettles, so I live in hope. I can well imagine Home Office officials telling him that if he does nothing, demands for an inquiry into Operation Conifer will eventually fade away. Well, we will not fade away and these demands will not fade away.
Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington (CB)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, for securing this debate. I would also like to make it a matter of record that I support the noble Lord in his wish for an independent inquiry of some form or another.
Justice not only needs to be done, it needs to be seen to be done. If there is nothing to hide, why do we not have an inquiry? Having been an HMI for two years, let me tell your Lordships that if that system had been in existence now and I had been the HMI of Wiltshire, an inquiry would have taken place without any doubt at all. I know the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, would agree.
Noble Lords may be aware of my concerns about the introduction of PCCs following the commission that I led in 2013. Our report, Policing for a Better Britain, considered it a failed experiment. Some PCCs and politicians tried to pour cold water on our findings, dubbing them politically motivated. A quick look at the names of those who sat on the Commission—your Lordships will know some of them because they sit in this House—shows that 27 independent universities were involved. Of course the report could not have been politically motivated.
However, it seems clear to me that it would be a waste of time and money to totally abolish the system as it currently stands. That said, I believe there are opportunities for improvement which can be seen in order to tackle some of the flaws which have been pointed out since the inception of the role. They have been adequately talked about before my presentation today.
In light of the recent reporting on funding cuts to police services, the so-called crisis in crime, the rates of violent crime in particular and the looming changes which will no doubt be brought on by Brexit, I find it of vital importance that the role and responsibilities of PCCs are addressed and examined with an open mind and an honest will to improve the service which they provide to the public and to listen to those on the front line. We need to address issues such as what a PCC is and what are their roles. Senior appointment panels have to be re-elected and reappointed. Nobody—or very few people—wants to be a chief constable. Northumbria, the police force of which I was proud to be chief constable for five years, had no one wanting to do the job. It actually approached someone and a very good appointment has been made internally. That is unbelievable. When I went for the job, there were eight applicants—one an existing chief constable. How I got the job, I do not know and perhaps others would agree, but there we go. Other issues that need to be dealt with are the dismissal of police chiefs and police leadership generally.
I have immense respect for the Minister. The starting point could be February 2016 when the then Home Secretary, the present Prime Minister, told the Policy Exchange,
“you could be forgiven for thinking that we were creating a monster. And I’d be lying if I said there weren’t times over the last three and a half years when I thought we might have done just that.”
She went on in an extraordinary example of honesty by listing several incidents which have given PCCs a bad name, adding that there was no doubt that some of them had brought the office of the PCC into disrepute. She concluded:
“We must not kid ourselves that PCCs are yet universally understood”.
That is a very good starting point for a review of where we are with PCCs.
Lord Paddick (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, for securing this debate. I declare an interest not only as a former senior Metropolitan Police officer but as someone who is gazing across the Chamber at three former Metropolitan Police Commissioners. Of course, that will not influence what I say. On Operation Conifer, I say only that I hope the House will soon be given the opportunity to debate my Private Member’s Bill on pre-charge anonymity.
We on these Benches remain sceptical about the benefits of police and crime commissioners over police authorities—despite some very good examples, such as our very own noble Lord, Lord Bach—and advocate their replacement with panels of locally elected councillors or London Assembly members. However, I take exception to what the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said about party-political influences. As noble Lords will know, police and crime commissioners are now predominantly party-political candidates. In 2012 there were 12 independents; in 2016 only three independents were elected. I accept that they may not be party political in terms of local politics but when it comes to arguments about, for example, resources for policing, I wonder how vocal Conservative police and crime commissioners have been, compared with Labour police and crime commissioners, about the lack of central government funding for policing. There is a danger of politicising the police—of chief constables being selected according to whether their politics align with those of the local PCC. I can think of a famous example of a chief officer being sacked because his political views did not align with those of the police and crime commissioner.
There is also the problem, raised by the noble Lords, Lord Blair of Boughton and Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, of the low number of applicants for chief constable posts. The seventh report of the House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee in 2016 said:
“It is deeply concerning that there have been so few applicants for recent Chief Constable vacancies … It is also worrying that incumbent deputies often seem to be the only candidates”.
That relates to what the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, said about the difficulty of having two individuals—the chief constable and the PCC—with so much relying on the personalities of the two.
A case was drawn to my attention where serious allegations were made about the chief constable of a particular force. Rather than initiating an independent investigation, the police and crime commissioner is alleged to have passed those accusations to the chief constable, including the identity of the accuser, placing that person—a member of that force—in an invidious position. Eventually, in 2014, following further allegations from other members of the force, that chief constable was suspended and the matter was investigated by the IPCC. But a misconduct hearing conducted by the police and crime commissioner, rather than sacking the chief constable, recommended eight final warnings, and the chief constable was reinstated. It was only after concerns were raised by the chief officer group of the force, the Police Superintendents’ Association of the force, the Police Federation of the force and Unison, and a public petition of more than 1,000 signatures calling for the chief constable’s resignation, that the police and crime commissioner began the process requiring the chief constable to resign, which he subsequently did. As the noble Lords, Lord Bew and Lord Wasserman, said, there is clearly a need for greater accountability of police and crime commissioners. The person who contacted me asked, “What happens when the police and crime commissioner is guilty of misconduct?”—a question that I did not have an answer to.
As for the role and responsibilities of police and crime commissioners, they already have a huge area of responsibility, not just for the police but for crime and disorder reduction. The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners briefing provided for this debate says:
“PCCs work in partnership across a range of agencies at local and national level to ensure there is a unified approach to preventing and reducing crime”,
and:
“Police and Crime Commissioners are actively involved in work that goes beyond policing including on victim services, mental health, community safety, reducing offending, child sexual exploitation and abuse, youth justice and beyond”.
Despite that, the Government have pressed ahead with giving police and crime commissioners other responsibilities, such as for the fire service. When one considers the sort of scrutiny the London fire and rescue service has been under this week in the Grenfell inquiry, one has to agree with the Home Affairs Committee report, which said:
“Adding further to their responsibilities … is an interesting idea but one which we believe requires detailed scrutiny and should be left until later”.
I am also concerned that an unintended consequence of these additional responsibilities for police and crime commissioners will be the erosion of the role of locally elected councillors and London Assembly members. Coupled with the erosion of central government funding, is this part of a government strategy to undermine local authorities and local democracy?
Police authorities mainly comprised elected representatives from a range of political parties, magistrates and independent members who could make up for any gaps in representation; for example, of minorities. There were representatives from different parts of a police force area—urban versus rural, for example—and local problems and concerns could be championed by individual police authority members and addressed. If not party-politically neutral, they were certainly more politically balanced. Local councillors on police authorities could balance the needs of police funding, which is increasingly falling on local authorities as central government funding for the police reduces, against the needs of other local services; whereas police and crime commissioners only have to consider raising money locally for the police. Crime and disorder partnerships, based on local authority areas, could be better synchronised with police authorities.
As other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Scriven, have said, there is concern about democratic legitimacy, public awareness and accountability. Democratic legitimacy and public awareness of who holds the police to account and how to make representations are still as lacking as under the old system. According to the APCC briefing, PPCs have,
“increased the transparency and accountability across the policing landscape through their directly elected role”.
I am not sure the evidence backs that up. Turnout for the police and crime commissioner elections in 2012 was only 15% and in 2016 was between 23% and 26%. I expect PCCs are as largely invisible as their police authority predecessors. Indeed, the Home Affairs Committee said that,
“public engagement by PCCs … is an extremely important part of their role if they are to be truly representative of, and accountable to, their local areas … We would like to see all PCCs … putting the highest priority on engaging with their electorates”.
Contrary to what the noble Baroness, Lady Seccombe, said, arguably the PCC system costs more than the system that it replaced. For example, you have not only the salaries of PCCs but of deputy police and crime commissioners. A PCC can appoint anybody they like to that role. Of course, in addition there is the cost of the elections, and sadly we have already had one by-election as a consequence of the tragic death of a PCC. All these costs add up.
As elected representatives, the only way that police and crime commissioners can be held to account is by police and crime panels. As the Home Affairs Committee report says,
“panel members need to be properly trained, resourced and supported”,
but of course the only training, resources and support they will get are those provided by the police and crime commissioner himself or herself.
Overall, we think the old system had its drawbacks but the cost-benefit analysis for police and crime commissioners comes out negative.
Lord Rosser (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, for securing this debate on the role and responsibilities of police and crime commissioners. It is a question that he has prompted in the context of the handling of Operation Conifer by Wiltshire Police and the approach of the Wiltshire and Swindon PCC. The Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 gave PCCs responsibility for the totality of policing within their force area, and further required them to hold the force chief constable to account for the operational delivery of policing.
The Policing Protocol Order 2011 states:
“The public accountability for the delivery and performance of the police service is placed into the hands of the PCC on behalf of their electorate. The PCC draws on their mandate to set and shape the strategic objectives of their force area in consultation with the Chief Constable. They are accountable to the electorate; the Chief Constable is accountable to their PCC. The Panel within each force area is empowered to maintain a regular check and balance on the performance of the PCC in that context”.
The protocol also states:
“The PCC is the recipient of all funding, including the government grant and precept and other sources of income, related to policing and crime reduction and all funding for a force must come via the PCC. How this money is allocated is a matter for the PCC in consultation with the Chief Constable, or in accordance with any grant terms. The Chief Constable will provide professional advice and recommendations”.
In respect of the chief constable, the protocol says:
“At all times the Chief Constable, their constables and staff, remain operationally independent in the service of the communities that they serve”.
During Oral Questions on 7 March last year, the Government said that,
“chief officers are held to account in respect of operational matters by their police and crime commissioner”.—[Official Report, 7/3/17; col. 1249.]
How exactly is the PCC allowed to do that if the Government’s view is that operational matters are purely the responsibility of the chief constable? In holding the chief constable to account, can the police and crime commissioner, within their powers, give directions to the chief constable on how they should conduct “operational matters” or changes they should introduce, or is the holding to account at the end of the day in reality limited to the nuclear option of the power to dismiss? Could the Government in response indicate how the power to hold to account in respect of operational matters can be exercised by a police and crime commissioner within their powers?
On 11 October 2017 I asked the Government:
“Which elected person, if any, had the statutory power—if they chose to use it—to challenge how the Operation Conifer investigation was being conducted or even to stop it?”.
In response the Government said:
“The elected power who would have the authority to undertake any of the issues that the noble Lord is talking about would be the PCC”.—[Official Report, 11/10/17; col. 230.]
That again comes back to the issue of the role and responsibilities of a PCC to hold the chief constable to account in respect of operational matters, since presumably the Operation Conifer investigation was an operational matter. When the Government said that the PCC could challenge how the investigation was being conducted, did the Government also mean that the police and crime commissioner had a power of direction in this regard? In other words, can the Government say in what way the police and crime commissioner could have challenged how the investigation was being conducted and what actions he could then have taken within his laid-down powers and responsibilities?
If a PCC does have the power to set up a review into how an investigation is being conducted or has been conducted by their police force, what powers does the PCC have to implement any recommendations arising from that review, which may well be recommendations on operational matters which the Government say are the responsibility of the chief constable and not the PCC? Surely the PCC would not be in the position of being able to set up such an inquiry or review, but then not be able to implement any recommendations arising on operational issues, if their chief constable declined to implement those recommendations? Again, I would like a response from the Government on this specific point.
Similarly, the PCC is responsible for drawing up a budget, and it is presumably a matter for the PCC as to how specific they are in allocating money to different activities and functions, including operational matters. Can a PCC, in drawing up a budget, allocate specific sums of money to addressing specific types of crime such as cybercrime, fraud, burglary, domestic violence or moped cycle crime, for example? If the PCC can do that, is that not also getting involved in operational matters, since the PCC, through the budget allocations, would be determining or at least heavily influencing what level of available police resources should be allocated to addressing different sorts of crime—an allocation with which the chief constable might not agree, or might feel was an operational issue that was their responsibility and not that of the PCC? I would like a response from the Government on the specific point of the extent to which the PCC, through drawing up the budget and the detail they go into in doing so, can in reality make decisions affecting operational matters which, according to the Government, are apparently the sole responsibility of the chief constable.
Then there is the issue of what PCC candidates promise or claim in their election addresses. One I have seen, for a sitting PCC seeking re-election, said that their record over the previous four years had included,
“seeing an overall reduction in crime and incidents year on year”,
and,
“ensuring that our local police are out in their community, rather than stuck behind a desk”.
Is a PCC accountable for “seeing an overall reduction in crime and incidents year on year” and “ensuring that our local police are out in their community”, or are those operational matters that are the responsibility of the chief constable? Once again I would like a response from the Government on that point.
If there is an overall increase in crime and incidents year on year, it will of course be interesting to see whether a PCC seeking re-election would accept responsibility for that in their election address, or whether the tone would change, with the PCC then maintaining that that was an operational matter for the chief constable and that he or she—the PCC—would be holding the chief constable to account for it.
There is of course the Policing Protocol Order 2011, which sets out to all police and crime commissioners, chief constables and police and crime panels how their functions will be exercised in relation to each other. Even with the 2011 protocol, are the Government satisfied that all police and crime commissioners understand clearly in practical terms their powers, role and responsibilities, including in relation to chief constables and police and crime panels, and do the Government consider that all police and crime commissioners have the same view about the practical application of their powers, role and responsibilities? On how many occasions have police and crime commissioners, either individually or collectively, sought the advice or understanding of the Home Office on the practical application of their statutory powers, and what have been the issues they have raised? Do the Government seek to ensure that there is a consistent view among PCCs of how their role and responsibilities should and can be interpreted and developed, and, if so, by what means do the Government seek to do that?
I sense that some PCCs, such as my noble friend Lord Bach, have a very clear view about the extent and breadth of their role and responsibilities. I am aware, too, of the numerous and varied initiatives that Dame Vera Baird has initiated, or been a key player in, in her capacity as PCC for Northumbria, and I get the strong impression—as my noble friend Lord Bassam of Brighton said—that she is held in high regard for the very proactive way in which she has interpreted and developed her role and responsibilities as PCC. Other noble Lords have made favourable references to the work of other PCCs.
I am not so sure, though, that clarity about their role and responsibilities applies across the board with PCCs. I do not believe that the Government had a very clear idea either on that matter when they passed the 2011 Act establishing police and crime commissioners. There were generalities about the role and responsibilities of PCCs, and not least in relation to chief constables and police and crime panels. My feeling is that the relevant individuals concerned in each police force have been left largely on their own to interpret what the 2011 Act and the protocol actually mean when it comes to specifics, and what they should and should not be doing, and can and cannot be doing. As a result, power of personality has often been a crucial factor in determining what actually happens, and that is why I believe there are still significant differences in the way that PCCs interpret their working relationships and role and responsibilities. That is why some PCCs have a high and positive profile within their areas, and others seem to be rather less visible to their constituents, and rather less active in developing and promoting new and imaginative initiatives to help reduce and prevent crime, and support victims.
My noble friend Lord Bassam of Brighton and others raised the issue of a review of how the role and responsibilities of PCCs have worked out in practice and how effective and accountable working relationships involving PCCs have proved in reality. I await with interest the Government’s response to this point and to the many other points that have been raised, including by me and the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, in this debate.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, for securing this debate. He told me he had secured it and thought I might not be very happy, but I am very happy that he secured the debate as it gives us another chance to debate this very important issue that I know is of such importance to noble Lords. Parliament’s only PCC, the noble Lord, Lord Bach, participated in this debate and other noble Lords have spoken. It has been quite a wide-ranging debate—necessarily so—and across the Chamber views have been expressed on a variety of issues relating to the role and responsibilities of police and crime commissioners.
Since the introduction of PCCs in 2012—40 of them in total, as the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, pointed out—everyone now has a direct say in policing in their area through their locally elected PCC. Police and crime commissioners have brought real local accountability to how chief constables and their forces perform and are working hard to ensure that their local communities have a stronger voice in policing, as my noble friends Lady Seccombe and Lord Wasserman pointed out. I note the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, about his PCC. Others may have other points to make about theirs, but they operate in the full gaze of the media and must justify their record to the public every four years via the ballot box, as my noble friend Lord Wasserman pointed out.
I was very glad to hear from my noble friends Lord Wasserman and Lady Seccombe about some of the good work that is going on in their areas, and I have seen at first hand what the PCC, who is the noble Lord, Lord Bach, is doing in Leicestershire. This is in stark contrast to the police authorities—I must declare an interest as I sat on a police authority—which were not particularly visible and were not felt to be particularly accountable. I note the point made by the noble Lords, Lord Armstrong and Lord Scriven, about their return, but on a personal level I would not want to see it.
The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, made a point about Ministers stepping in to deal with the lack of democracy in the PCC system. As they are directly elected, PCCs are directly accountable to their electorate, and local communities will have their say at the ballot box when the time comes. Police and crime panels have the appropriate powers to scrutinise the actions and decisions of the PCCs effectively. For instance, panels have a statutory power to request information from PCCs, should that be necessary.
At the 2016 PCC national elections, 9 million votes were cast, and PCCs are currently receiving more than 7,000 pieces of correspondence from the general public every month.
PCCs are also providing an impetus to reform. As we have heard, PCCs such as Vera Baird, whom I have also met, are proposing innovative solutions to delivering policing more effectively. PCCs are taking a lead role in driving collaboration between forces, which is a very welcome change, and with other blue-light partners to deliver more effective services and better value for money for the taxpayer. I have seen that in Greater Manchester and in Leicestershire with the noble Lord, Lord Bach.
As was recognised by the Home Affairs Select Committee in its March 2016 report, PCCs are here to stay and their introduction has worked well to date. I also note the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bach, which I have seen time and time again, that their role has not been politicised. In fact, I have seen PCCs not afraid to challenge their own political party on some of the things that are happening. The police remain independent, and that is very pleasing to see.
A number of noble Lords raised questions concerning the Government’s role in relation to the powers of PCCs. PCCs have been elected by the public to hold chief constables and the force to account, making the police answerable to the communities they serve. The police are, rightly, operationally independent of government. It would not be right for government to intervene in or influence the exercise of a PCC’s functions.
I must reiterate that the exercise of a PCC’s powers in relation to the commission of any specific inquiry must be a matter for the PCC in question. The noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, talked about holding the force to account. Section 36 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act places a duty on the chief constable to provide to the PCC any information necessary to hold the force to account.
The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, made a bit of a side point about drugs. I would expect that from her, as she does things very skilfully. She made a point about drug users being made into criminals by the police. The police and, certainly, the Government primarily want people to recover from drug dependency, as opposed to wanting to make criminals of them.
My noble friend Lord Wasserman asked a very interesting question on recall. It was at the forefront of discussions some years ago, but it is good to hear him bringing it back. There is definitely a debate to be had. However, extending the policy of recall beyond MPs to other elected officers requires careful consideration, and we would need to work with others in elected offices to understand the precedent that might be set.
My noble friend Lady Seccombe talked about neighbourhood policing and working with residents and communities. It is such a valuable aspect of local policing. Whether it is in Salisbury or London, these officers play a vital role in keeping us safe every day. There are many examples of the great work they do.
The noble Lord, Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick, talked about the police being inclusive, the question of maintaining operational independence and the context of unjust and unfair policing towards BME communities. He made a very important point about the diversity of the police. It is important in policing all communities inclusively. I am pleased to say that the proportion of officers from a non-white ethnic group has been increasing in the past decade. I agree with the noble Lord that, to be effective, a force must mirror the community it serves.
The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, talked about diversity of PCCs. It is something that all political parties and none would support in terms of engaging people not only in the policing function but in the political process of choosing their PCC. In 2016, 9 million votes were cast, which was a 67% increase in the number of votes cast in the election in 2012, so the turnout is not high but is on a very good upward trajectory.
The noble Lord, Lord Blair of Boughton, talked about the powers of HMIC. While it might be possible for the PPC or the Home Secretary to commission HMICFRS to review whether an investigation was conducted in a way that met the standards required for policing, we do not believe that it is appropriate for the inspectorate to review all evidence gathered and conclusions reached. On the point of the inspection of Wiltshire, it has consistently reached overall “Good”, although I can understand that noble Lords might not entirely agree with that point.
The noble Lords, Lord Blair of Boughton, Lord Hastings, and others, talked about strategic reviews of the police as a whole. The noble Lord, Lord Blair, pointed out that the last royal commission was in 1962. However, a number of key reports have led to police reform subsequently, including the Scarman report in 1981, Sheehy in 1992 and, of course, the Macpherson report of 1999.
The noble Lord, Lord Bach, talked about addressing the issue of police funding reductions. Prior to the police funding settlement, the Minister for Policing—I have said this at the Dispatch Box on many an occasion—spoke to every police force in England to understand the level of resource required to meet policing needs. We have provided a comprehensive funding settlement, with increasing investment of over £460 million in 2018-19. The noble Lord will recall the Home Secretary saying recently that he absolutely understands some of the pressures which the police have been under, particularly in light of events over the last year or two in terms of terrorist attacks and other things that have happened.
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, talked about the challenge posed by flawed recruitment processes, and recruiting senior police. The noble Lord, Lord Hastings, may also have mentioned that, or it may have been the noble Lord, Lord Butler—they have been a sea behind me, but it was one of them. The issue of choosing police leaders is so important. People need to be able to demonstrate both leadership and be very good in their policing role. In many ways, a career in policing should be a vocation that is attractive to the brightest and the best leaders in society. The Government want to see police ranks opened up, with flexible entry and exit paths to encourage diversity of experience.
The noble Lord, Lord Birt, asked what the police were doing on moped crime. It is clearly a concern, and I assure the noble Lord that the Government have worked with the police, industry and other partners to develop a comprehensive action plan on what is a very serious problem in our attempt to keep the public safe.
The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked about the process for complaints against the PCC. Non-serious complaints go to police and crime panels but, as I am sure the noble Lord knows, when complaints are of a serious and criminal nature, they will be directed to the IOPC.
Moving on to the issue of Operation Conifer and the PCC for Wiltshire and Swindon, I have heard of concerns today, as I have heard previously, about the refusal of the locally elected PCC to commission an inquiry into Operation Conifer, which investigated, as noble Lords know, claims of child sexual abuse made against the late former Prime Minister, Sir Edward Heath. I understand the strength of feeling in this House, which I have heard expressed many times. I fully recognise the desire of those who knew Sir Edward personally to protect his reputation when he is no longer able to do so himself. I understand the disappointment at the PCC’s decision not to commission an inquiry. On the point of enough funding to commission an inquiry, Wiltshire has £17.9 million in reserves.
However, that does not change the Government’s position. It is our view that it is rightly a decision for the PCC and that he has the necessary powers and, as I have just said, the necessary funding. This concerns an investigation led by Wiltshire Police into a past resident of the county. The high profile of that individual does not of itself make this a national issue, but I understand the point about it being of national interest. The Government have no plans to launch an inquiry into how this investigation was conducted. It is still open to the locally elected PCC to do so himself, but it would not be appropriate for the Government to step in simply because he has chosen not to.
It is extremely important at this point to remind ourselves that Wiltshire Police’s own report strongly emphasised that no inference of guilt should be drawn from the fact that Sir Edward, had he still been alive, would have been interviewed under caution in respect of a small number of allegations. I can see the sensitivity and concern that those words have garnered. The purpose of such an interview would have been to gain his account, which would have been as important as other evidence gathered as part of the wider investigation. Because he was being accused of an offence, it would have been important for Sir Edward to enjoy the same protections as anyone else in that position and to benefit from an interview under caution. By doing so, the police are able to advance their investigations, and suspects’ rights are protected. Every day people are interviewed under caution and no action is ever taken against them. However, I can understand the feeling in this case, but as the police rightly noted, an interview cannot and should not be interpreted as a sign of guilt. We need to remember that.
We also need to remember that only a court can determine whether someone is guilty and that when an accused person is deceased and cannot present their own evidence to the court, this is not possible. There is no guarantee, unfortunately, that an independent review of Operation Conifer would provide a definitive answer that noble Lords so understandably seek.
The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, asked whether Operation Conifer was referred to the PCC panel for scrutiny, which is a good question. Of course, PCC panels have a role in challenging, scrutinising and supporting each police and crime commissioner. I do not know the answer in the specific case as to whether it did, but it is something that I can take back and ask.
The noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, asked about IICSA, and, of course, the PCC for Wiltshire is of the opinion that IICSA—the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse—is the correct commissioning body for such a review. I must reiterate, and I think the noble Lord was alluding to this, that IICSA was established to consider the extent to which institutions in England and Wales have failed in their duty to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation. It operates independently of government and, within its terms of reference, decides what it investigates and how. It would be inappropriate for the Government to seek to influence those decisions. I think noble Lords are clear—certainly I am—on IICSA’s role, which is distinct from the role of Operation Conifer.
The Henriques report was commissioned by the Metropolitan Police, not the Government, so the recommendations are largely for the College of Policing which sets the standards for policing. We are very grateful for the lessons it has taught us about such investigations. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, my noble friend Lord Hunt and the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, made the point about victims. There has been much discussion recently about the approach the police take to allegations of sexual offences and abuse. The College of Policing is currently considering the recommendations of the Henriques report and will announce its response in due course.
Of course, great effort has gone into building public trust in police investigations into the very sensitive and distressing matter of sexual abuse. It is important that this continues. Starting an investigation from a position of doubt is unlikely to encourage victims to come forward. Existing guidance says that when an allegation is received police should believe the account and record it as a crime unless there is credible evidence at the point the allegation is made that determines that no crime has been committed. In this case it should be recorded as an incident.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
Can the noble Lord indulge me? I am literally at time and I implore noble Lords not to stop me from talking. Perhaps the noble Lord and I can talk afterwards.
The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked whether PCCs can give directions to challenge police constables and, specifically, whether they can set up their own reviews. Our view is that PCCs can establish a review into the conduct of an operation in order to assess the efficiency and effectiveness of the force.
Finally—and I am definitely testing noble Lords’ patience—there is the point about the Home Office being corrupt. Thousands of people work in the Home Office every day. I come across many of them. In every walk of life, most people do their job with great enthusiasm and professionalism. We will always get members of staff who stray from that, but to go as far as saying that the Home Office is corrupt I would strongly deny. I conclude by thanking all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate.
Lord Armstrong of Ilminster
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this debate and made a great many interesting contributions.
As to what the Minister said about the Operation Conifer affair, she holds a very straight bat for the Home Office, but we shall be returning to the matter because, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, and others have said, there are issues of justice in this that cannot be allowed to rest. No doubt we shall need to talk again to the police and crime commissioner, but I do not think we have heard the last of this matter in this Chamber or more generally.
The debate was extremely interesting. I formed the impression that what we think about police and crime commissioners rather depends on the area from which we come; some are better than others. There are still aspects of the system that we have not got right and will need to be examined again.
I thought the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, about operational expenditure were very important and need to be considered very thoroughly. The Home Office has been apt to use the doctrine of operational independence to avoid almost any kind of query about police operations. Although I believe that the principle of operational independence is extremely important, once an operation is over—as I said before—the doctrine of operational expenditure cannot absolve the chief constable from having to account for the way in which an investigation has been conducted or for its consequences. It suggests that we need to refine this doctrine a little more than we have done.
Finally, police forces traditionally have been guided that they must believe child abuse allegations. As one speaker suggested, that goes too far. They must take allegations seriously, of course, but they must examine them because this is an area in which false allegations seem to be exceedingly prevalent. People should be taken seriously, but the possibility of falsehood or deliberate conspiracy to make false allegations should never be overlooked. I again thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate.
Nigeria
Lord Alton of Liverpool
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the continuing violence between communities and armed groups in Nigeria.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the tragic topicality of today’s debate was underlined last weekend when more than 200 people were reported to have died in co-ordinated attacks on around 50 communities in Plateau state in Barkin Ladi. These attacks began on 22 June and lasted until 24 June. The majority of the victims were women and children. At one location, 120 were killed as they returned from the funeral of an elderly member of the Church of Christ in Nations. A dawn to dusk curfew was established and, as I heard first hand yesterday from the honourable Rimamnde Shawulu Kwewum, a member of the Nigerian Federal House of Representatives, the area remains tense. This most recent episode is shocking, but it is also the latest in an extended pattern of violence that has become all too common across Nigeria, particularly in the Middle Belt and increasingly in some of the more southern states.
Last week Sam Brownback, the United States Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom, was in Nigeria. On a single day during his visit, there were six suicide bombings by Boko Haram, the largest number ever on any single day. As we will hear later from my noble—and courageous—friend Lady Cox, who has visited these areas, these attacks have been systematic and go on unabated.
Human rights groups such as CSW have catalogued every reported attack. While it may not be definitive, the list attempts to provide as comprehensive a record as possible of known attacks and of the death toll in the Middle Belt during the first quarter of this year, underlining the critical need for urgent and effective intervention. I have sent many of these details to Ministers but in the interests of time I will just give the House a snapshot from a few days in April of this year. On 10 April, 10 people were killed in Ukum in Benue state. On 10 April, 51 were killed in Wukari, Taraba state. On 12 April, 41 were killed in Ukum, Benue state. On 12 April, two were killed in Makurdi in Benue state, and another 41 were killed in Ukum in Benue state.
The charity Aid to the Church in Need, on whose board I sit in a pro bono capacity, has also documented appalling acts of violence, which I have sent to the Government. In April, during early morning mass, militants attacked the parish in Makurdi killing two priests and 17 members of the congregation. ACN has also highlighted the 15,000 orphans and 5,000 widows in the north-east—an area that has come under repeated attack from Boko Haram. I would be grateful to hear from the Minister what humanitarian aid we have been able to provide for victims.
CSW reports that in the first quarter of 2018, Fulani herder militia perpetrated at least 106 attacks in central Nigeria. The death toll in these four months, purely from herder militia violence, stands at 1,061. An additional 11 attacks recorded on communities in the south of the country claimed a further 21 lives. One spokesman said: “It is purely a religious jihad in disguise”.
There has certainly been a long history of disputes between nomadic herders and farming communities right across the Sahel, over land, grazing and scarce resources—I have visited places such as Darfur myself and have seen that at first hand. It is true that attacks by herder militia have, on occasion, led to retaliatory violence, as communities conclude that they can no longer rely on the Government for protection or justice. Between 1 January and 1 May this year, there were 60 such attacks. However, compared with the recent escalation in attacks by well-armed Fulani herders upon predominately Christian farming communities, the asymmetry is stark and must be acknowledged by the UK Government in their characterisation and narrative of this violence. Given the escalation, frequency, organisation and asymmetry of Fulani attacks, does the Minister believe that the references to “farmer-herder clashes” still suffice? In the face of the reports of violence collected by impartial human rights groups, there is no place here for, as it were, moral equivalence; nor is it sufficient for the Government merely to urge all sides to seek dialogue and avoid violence. I would urge the noble Baroness to revisit the narrative, conduct her own assessment and either confirm or dispute the data that I have given to the House already—I know other noble Lords will do the same.
Some local observers have gone so far as to describe the rising attacks as a campaign of ethno-religious cleansing. Armed with sophisticated weaponry, including AK47s and, in at least one case, a rocket launcher and rocket-propelled grenades, the Fulani militia have murdered more men, women and children in 2015, 2016 and 2017 than even Boko Haram, destroying, overrunning and seizing property and land, and displacing tens of thousands of people. This is organised and systematic. We must ask where this group of nomadic herdsmen is getting such sophisticated weaponry from. I wonder whether the Minister has had a chance to look into this; if not, will she give an undertaking to do so?
While recognising the complex underlying causes of this violence, we must also acknowledge a growing degree of religious motivation behind the violence. The local chapter of the Christian Association of Nigeria recently revealed that herdsmen have destroyed over 500 churches in Benue state alone since 2011. Perhaps the Minister could also respond to reports that during many of these well-planned attacks by Fulani militia, their cattle are nowhere in sight, and they are often reported by survivors to have shouted “Allahu Akbar” during these attacks. Perhaps the Minister can comment on this undoubtedly sectarian aspect of the escalating violence.
Beyond intermittent verbal condemnations, I cannot see much practical action that has been taken to end the violence, which has emboldened perpetrators even further. Moreover, in the light of such an inadequate response thus far, communities will begin—and indeed already are beginning—to feel that they can no longer rely on government for protection or justice, and a few take matters into their own hands. In the words of an Anglican canon in the Middle Belt, “Why do so many security service personnel spend their time guarding our politicians, rather than protecting our people?” I also put on record a recent statement to President Buhari issued by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Nigeria. Among other things the statement said:
“Since the President who appointed the Heads of the nation’s Security Agencies has refused to call them to order, even in the face of the chaos and barbarity into which our country has been plunged, we are left with no choice but to conclude that they are acting on a script that he approves of. If the President cannot keep our country safe, then he automatically loses the trust of the citizens. He should no longer continue to preside over the killing fields and mass graveyard that our country has become”.
That is a pretty awesome statement from a bishops’ conference.
Concern about partiality was also raised on 24 March, by the highly respected former army chief of staff and Defence Minister, Lieutenant General Theophilus Y Danjuma, who stated that the armed forces were, “not neutral; they collude” in the,
“ethnic cleansing in … riverine states”,
by Fulani militia. He insisted that villagers must defend themselves because,
“depending on the armed forces”,
will result in them dying,
“one by one. The ethnic cleansing must stop … in all the states of Nigeria; otherwise Somalia will be a child’s play”.
I would like to hear, therefore, what practical steps the UK Government are taking to work with the Government of Nigeria in developing effective solutions to bring an end to this escalating violence. Can the Minister tell us whether there is a strategic plan and what representations have been made directly? I know that finding solutions is complex, but there is nothing to stop the Minister calling on the Government of Nigeria to recalibrate security arrangements and to resource their forces as a matter of urgency, in order to offer sufficient protection to vulnerable communities.
As I close, I thank the noble Lords who are participating in today’s debate and go back to where I began: to the more than 200 people, mostly women and children, who were killed in sustained attacks on 50 villages by armed Fulani militia just this past weekend. People are dying daily. On 18 June, the Archbishop of Abuja referred in the Telegraph to what he described as “territorial conquest” and “ethnic cleansing” and said:
“The very survival of our nation is … at stake”.
This alone should serve as a wake-up call. Are we to watch one of Africa’s greatest countries go the way of Sudan? Will we be indifferent as radical forces sweep across the Sahel seeking to replace diversity and difference with a monochrome ideology that will be imposed with violence on those who refuse to comply? We must not wait for a genocide to happen, as it did in Rwanda. Ominously, history could very easily be repeated.
Baroness Berridge (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for securing this, unfortunately timely, debate and declare an interest as project director of the Commonwealth Initiative for Freedom of Religion and Belief.
While the focus in Nigeria was, for many years, on violence in the Niger Delta area over oil revenues or on the Boko Haram attacks in the north-east, the escalation of attacks between predominantly Christian farmers and predominantly Muslim Fulani herdsmen has gone underreported. As the noble Lord has outlined, in only the past week, as many as 200 Christian farmers were killed in central Plateau state, but the crisis between farmers and traditional herdsmen is not confined to Nigeria. Such violence extends across west Africa and the 2017 Global Terrorism Index estimates that more than 60,000 people have been killed across west Africa in clashes between Fulani herdsmen and settled communities since 2001. The Fulani are an ethnic group of about 20 million people across 20 west and central African countries. The causes of this violence are of course complex but include environmental reasons, religious motivation, terrorism and poor security services.
As the ECOWAS 1998 cross-border transhumance agreement allows herders to move across borders in search of grazing lands, it is not surprising that reports in Nigeria suggest that Fulani are coming from multiple countries. So, in April this year, it was encouraging to note that a further ECOWAS summit was held to discuss the issue, which has led to discussions about changing this agreement to prevent the uncontrolled movement of potentially violent groups across borders. The ECOWAS countries are now co-operating and are particularly looking at greater investment in livestock management and a common agricultural policy. But banning cattle-grazing, as has happened in three Nigerian states, has to be incorporated within a wider plan. The foremost livestock producers’ group, the Miyetti-Allah Cattle Breeders Association of Nigeria has endorsed the Government’s 10-year national ranch development plan. Have Her Majesty’s Government been approached by ECOWAS or the Nigerian Government looking for Department for International Development expertise and resource to enact such a ranch plan?
It is surely too simplistic to label these deaths as driven solely by desertification and competition for resources. While there have been attacks by Fulani herdsmen on Muslim farmers in Zamfara state, these are overwhelmingly outnumbered by attacks on Christians. Religious polarisation and extremism have helped to escalate violence in Nigeria to a greater degree than in other countries in the region. An existing conflict such as this and a strong ethno-religious identity has bought Fulani groups into wider jihadi movements, such as the largely Fulani terrorist group, FLM, which has joined with Islamic State. The FLM is apparently now seeking to bring the herdsmen’s grievances from Nigeria within its scope. Do Her Majesty’s Government agree that there has been an escalation in Nigeria of late? What do they believe are the causes and what is the extent of Boko Haram’s role in this? Are Boko Haram militants part of these attacks? It might explain the numerous reports, outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, of attacks with no cattle in sight. Is Boko Haram itself now part of a wider terrorist network?
Parliamentarians and religious leaders have an important role in resolving this conflict and the Commonwealth Initiative for Freedom of Religion and Belief’s conference last month for faith leaders and parliamentarians in Accra highlighted the wealth of resources available across west African Commonwealth countries. Ghana, Sierra Leone and Gambia offer superb examples of how to utilise faith and parliamentary leaders in calming religious tensions and addressing narratives of religious extremism, which will be vital to securing long-term peace in Nigeria.
In the short term, the easy accessibility to an estimated 380 million unregistered small firearms in Nigeria, roughly two guns per person, is a key factor in the scale of the deaths. These arms are looted from the army or black market sources across west Africa. Parliamentarians in Nigeria are currently trying to co-ordinate a meeting of regional parliamentarians connected to their respective security committees to discuss ways of checking the flow of arms around the region. Could the Minister outline whether the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth, the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association or the Inter-Parliamentary Union can be resourced to help this important parliamentary initiative?
The potential for this violence to spread is of concern to us all and I suspect some of the victims are relatives of British Nigerian diaspora, but the 2019 presidential and parliamentary elections in Nigeria provide the best opportunity for Nigerians themselves to demand their Government deal with this crisis. On my one visit to Nigeria, I witnessed that talk radio, civil society and religious groups in the south, especially churches, are hugely influential. I had the privilege of addressing an audience of 1 million people physically there. I hope the Nigerians, especially Nigerian Christians, will realise that much more of the solution is in their hands than they perhaps realise.
Lord Chidgey (LD)
My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, on their contributions, and thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for bringing this subject to us today. There has been a long history of disputes between nomadic herders and farming communities across the Sahel. In Nigeria, attacks are now occurring with such frequency, organisation and asymmetry, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that references to “farmer-herder clashes” are wholly inadequate. Armed with relatively sophisticated weaponry, particularly AK47s, the Fulani herder militia is thought to have murdered more men, women and children, between 2015 and 2017, than Boko Haram.
It has overrun and seized property and land, and displaced tens of thousands of people. In 2017, herder militia claimed 808 lives in 53 villages in southern Kaduna alone, burning down over 1,400 houses. As pointed out by the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, during most of these well-planned attacks, herders’ cattle were nowhere in sight. Over 180,000 people in Benue state are currently living in IDP camps because the herder militia violence has displaced them. More than 500,000 displaced people are living in temporary accommodation, and over 80,000 school-age children are living in IDP camps with no access to education.
Attacks continue unabated, with seemingly little government action. This has entrenched impunity. Apart from verbal condemnations, there has been no action to end the violence. No attacker has been brought to justice. With perpetrators emboldened, attacks by herder militia have now spread to southern Nigeria. No longer able to rely on the Government for protection or justice, communities are seeing a growth in vigilantism and retaliatory justice. The growth in murders of villagers and community leaders in Benue has also led to calls for President Buhari to consider his position, and for the reassessment of security arrangements as a matter of urgency.
As mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, on 24 March this year the respected former army chief of staff and Defence Minister, Lieutenant-General Theophilus Danjuma, stated that the armed forces were “not neutral” and that “they collude” in the “ethnic cleansing” of riverine states by the Fulani militia.
Earlier this week, I too had the opportunity to meet with the honourable Kwewum Rimande Shawulu, courtesy of the advocacy organisation CSW. The honourable Shawulu is a member of the Nigerian federal House of Representatives in Taraba state. Among his wide-ranging writing and editorial activities, he is currently chair of the National Assembly Army Committee, which gives him unique insight into Nigeria’s current security challenges.
In our discussions, he was able to rebut the claim that the anti-grazing laws are the cause of the spread of violence. The only states with anti-grazing laws are in fact Taraba, Benue and Ekiti, yet attacks have been occurring over 10 states. For example, in Plateau state, where there are no anti-grazing laws, there have been many killings, including last weekend, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, when over 200 civilians were reported killed. Interestingly, while there is some evidence that some of the violence has a religious dimension, the honourable Shawulu argued that the only affected area was Adamawa state, which is predominately Christian. Other areas with similar land and other resources have suffered no attacks, be they Christian or Muslim.
The overriding concern is that the growing instability and lawlessness in the region is providing fertile ground for kidnapping, banditry and terrorism with impunity. If this is not addressed, there is a real danger that the activities of Boko Haram, ISIS and similar terrorist groups could penetrate and destabilise the whole region. If not addressed, this could create a conflict and humanitarian crisis on a scale that would engage the international community, the UN Security Council and the UK. The prospect of terrorist cells spreading through Nigeria, Africa’s most populous state, and to territories beyond to threaten Europe cannot lightly be dismissed.
I urge the Government to act now, working alongside their Nigerian counterparts and fellow Commonwealth members, particularly while the UK holds the post-CHOGM Chair-in-Office. I suggest that DfID might examine the aid programme to Nigeria to ensure that provision is made for the communities that have been victims of the Fulani attacks. It should also ensure that minority communities in the north affected by Boko Haram attacks have access to humanitarian aid. There are also issues such as collective Commonwealth support in promoting the non-discriminatory and “even” application of the law to restore and strengthen faith in the law.
The attacks the Nigerian people are suffering can surely be mitigated, if not eroded, with the support of the agencies of the UN, the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, the faith community and international NGOs. Can the Minister, in her response or in writing, set out how the UK might plan to play a primary role in such a venture?
The Lord Bishop of Coventry
My Lords, I join with others in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for securing a debate on the serious situation that threatens the very stability of Nigeria. With the noble Lord I deplore the violence and, with other noble Lords and indeed the victims themselves, some of whom have been in contact with many of us this week, I call on Her Majesty’s Government to use their influence on the Nigerian Government to ensure the security of their people and to bring the violence to an end.
The violence here and in other extreme situations is symptomatic of underlying issues in Nigerian society, ranging from security to justice to employment to the exclusion of children from education through poverty, and even including the effects of desertification and the epidemic of drug abuse. They all have their part to play. At a more fundamental level still is the distance between the demands of the constitution and the daily lives of many Nigerian people. Intercommunal and interreligious violence of any sort has no root in Nigeria’s constitution. Rather, the constitution is a challenge to political leaders to apply it and to local religious and civic leaders to respect it.
I would like to focus on the importance of unbiased public information across Nigeria, whether through traditional media, social media, formal education, private or state, or informal religious education, in order to build resilience into communities in a way that protects against malign political manipulation of religious identities and nurtures respect and reconciliation between peoples. As shown by another CSW report, Faith and a Future, education impacts on other human rights and,
“can either create a culture of tolerance or fuel stereotyping, animosity and extremism”.
That is surely happening in Nigeria, certainly in the northern and central states, and probably in the south as well. Unfair representations of the other, especially the religious other, are a powerful source of energy for the political purposes of those who seek to gain influence and power. They are not difficult to access and then use to fuel the fires of fear on which hatred thrives and violence depends. Fair, truthful, unbiased education in all its forms has its own greater power to resist the engine of hatred and starve the forces of violence.
Amidst the tragic realities of the suffering of minorities in Nigeria, the appalling suffering of Christians in the northern states to which other noble Lords have drawn graphic attention, the suffering of Muslims caused by reprisals from Christian communities, the prejudice towards Shia Muslims, and even, as we have heard, the wanton murder of Fulani men going about their lawful business en route to cattle markets—amidst the terror of all this suffering, good education in all its forms offers hope for the future. The federal and state Governments have levers they can use—especially in formal education, both private and public—to improve the quality of education as a power for good and not for harm.
Education operates in many forms, but my remaining comments will focus on the content, conduct and character of education within schools, private and state. My interest is in how the religious and ethnic other is portrayed. This includes not only the content of religious education that students receive about their own religion and the religious and ethnic identity of others but the way that content is taught, the way people from minority communities are themselves treated in schools—whether they are afforded their full constitutional rights—together with the character of the educational experience throughout the school: is it cultivating a culture of respect? My understanding is that each state education department has an inspectorate division. This gives a strong lever to monitor the delivery of education according to the principles of the constitution and the guidelines set at federal level.
There are some hopeful signs on the ground. The governor of Kaduna state is pursuing a thorough process of educational reform in which he recently dismissed large numbers of unsuitable teachers and recruited even larger numbers of qualified teachers, increasing their allowances to incentivise teachers to work in rural areas. So I conclude by asking the Minister whether Her Majesty’s Government have offered their assistance to state governors who seek to raise the standards of education to a higher level, not only of academic achievement but of more religiously responsible citizenship, and to monitor it rigorously.
Baroness Stroud (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for tabling this timely debate.
As we have heard, historically attention has been focused in the north of Nigeria, with the much-reported rising number of attacks by Boko Haram. But over this last weekend, as we have also heard, violence between the mostly Muslim Fulani herdsmen and Christian farmers in central Nigeria, the middle belt, killed 200 people and destroyed countless houses. I share the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, about escalating religious violence against Christians and violations of freedom of religion and belief, which are largely unaddressed by the state.
Ethnic and religious relations in Nigeria have always been a delicate balancing act, but these ongoing tensions with this outbreak of violence are as much products of poverty and inequality across the country as they are of deep-seated division. If we want to address issues of safety and security in Nigeria, we also need to address the inequality that modern Nigeria faces. Almost 87 million people in Nigeria live in extreme poverty, on $1.90 a day or less, and this number has increased over time, making Nigeria the country with the highest number of people in extreme poverty in the world. Nigerian government figures show that between 1980 and 2010, the number of people in poverty increased by 153%, with nearly 5 million people facing food insecurity and 49% of the younger generation either unemployed or underemployed. I refer to the register of Members’ interests when I point out that Nigeria sits as the 128th of 149 countries in the Legatum Prosperity Index, with particularly low scores in safety and security, economic quality and health.
However, between 2000 and 2015 the number of millionaires in Nigeria increased by over 300%, and Nigeria has had an average economic growth of 7% annually since 2004. This story is an indictment of successive Nigerian Governments’ failure to manage the country’s wealth, and of a deeply ingrained culture of corruption. The Nigerian National Bureau of Statistics estimates that small-scale bribery, for example to facilitate bureaucratic tasks, amounts to $4.6 billion a year.
Nigeria’s poverty is significantly more profound in the mostly Muslim north of the country, with 2010 figures showing 74% of the population of the north in poverty—20% higher than in the mostly Christian south. This division is exacerbated by an educational and investment divide between the north and south. The challenge to avoid clashes along existing lines of tension as a result of this is a great one.
In addition, the Boko Haram insurgency has had an enormous impact in north-eastern Nigeria in particular, with 20,000 dead since 2009 and at least 2 million people displaced. The Nigerian military, as we have heard, has shown itself to be ill equipped to deal with this insurgency, and, despite the Nigerian Government’s claims that Boko Haram is in retreat, these statements have only been followed by an increase in attacks. The group still poses a significant threat to the stability of this region.
Those who have been displaced in north-eastern Nigeria number nearly 2 million, in addition to 200,000 Nigerians in neighbouring countries. This situation is a continuing humanitarian crisis, which the Nigerian Government have also shown themselves ill equipped to tackle, leading to the establishing of major internally displaced people camps. However, the situation in these Nigerian refugee camps is appalling, with outbreaks of cholera, crippling shortages of food and water, and reports of up to 30 armed attacks a month on refugee camps in 2017. Far from being places of refuge, the crowded camps have been made into death traps as Boko Haram seeks soft targets.
With the UK Government now committing to aid funding of £200 million over the next four years, compared to the £100 million we committed to in 2017, will the Minister outline how the Government are intending to use this money effectively to focus on the key priorities that affect the country? This latest spate of violence only shows how urgent the need to address inequality is, and with next year’s presidential elections looming it is essential to ensure that the situation is stabilised so that the election is conducted in a safe environment.
We know what leads to prosperity in a nation. It is stable government that is free of corruption; safety and security; a good business environment; and strong skills development. I ask the Minister in particular to outline the balance of aid between a humanitarian response and support for the long-term nation-building response.
Baroness Cox (CB)
My Lords, I too congratulate my noble friend Lord Alton on securing this debate at this tragically critical time. Over recent decades there have been numerous attacks on Christians in the northern states, where sharia law has been established, as well as in Plateau state in the central belt. Thousands of Christians have been killed, hundreds of churches burned, and homes destroyed. The tragedies escalated with the rise of Boko Haram, which also killed Muslims who did not accept its Islamist ideology.
I have visited many times and seen the tragedies of death and destruction in Bauchi, Kano and Plateau states. But more recently, as other noble Lords have described, there has been a very disturbing change in the behaviour of the Fulani herdsmen. Since time immemorial, they have driven their huge herds of cattle through other people’s lands, causing tensions and some violence, but traditionally, they have moved on. However, in the last two to three years they have adopted a new policy: attacking Christian villages, killing local people, destroying homes, driving villagers off their lands and settling in their place. Now there has been this recent escalation of attacks on Christian villages by the Fulani, with, as other noble Lords have highlighted, over 200 civilians killed in Plateau state just last weekend. The Miyetti Allah Cattle Breeders Association of Nigeria has claimed responsibility for the attack.
Last time I was in Nigeria, I visited four villages which had been destroyed by Fulani. I stood in the rubble of the pastor’s home where he had been slaughtered, and I saw the huge numbers of Fulani cattle roaming through the destroyed villages. There are concerns that the Fulani militants are now so well armed that they are possibly fighting a proxy war for Boko Haram, with the shared agenda of driving Christians out of their homelands in northern and central-belt Nigeria.
Time allows only a few examples of quotations from local people, but they are indicative of many more. They provided first-hand evidence of the horror and terror now prevailing in these areas. This is one quote:
“Fulani herdsmen, yesterday 23 June, on a rampage, attacked about 10 villages; ‘in Nghar village alone, about 70 corpses were recovered as the entire village was razed down’”.
This is another:
“The attack last night was vicious … armed Fulani men dressed/masked in black entered Rasak & Gana Ropp villages, shooting randomly … The house of one … family … was surrounded & directly attacked … the Fulani were shooting into the house … as they shouted ‘Allahu Akbar!’”
This is another:
“Other villages in the area … were completely sacked by the armed herders. Survivors from the attacks from these ‘villages are believed to still be hiding in the bushes’”.
Over 60 people are known to have been killed there.
This is another quote:
“The attacks are continuing in other villages and in Gashish. As of 6 pm, at least 30 people were feared dead with several houses and cars razed down”.
This is my last example:
“In a continuing killing spree, Islamic Fulani cattle herdsmen killed eight people in Bassa local council, near Jos. From Sunday 17 June, till today (20th June) we have had no peace in the villages around here … all these villages have been attacked one after the other in three days”.
Archbishop Benjamin Kwashi, who had taken custody of a baby whose mother was killed, said:
“I am in tears because I have taken a child whose mother was shot dead. A family of four killed, another two young men shot dead and so on … Where are those who will protect the poor? Where is the leadership? It is a week and three days now with daily killings of poor unarmed and unprotected citizens of Plateau State”.
Related concerns expressed by local people include the interpretation of the situation as intercommunal attacks, with both sides being equally guilty. One resident said:
“It is annoying when politicians say this is a clash between herdsmen and farmers. I ask, how does a woman farming in her own farm clash with Fulanis carrying AK-47s?”
Other concerns include: failure of security services to protect civilians; impunity, with no one responsible for the killings being called to account; the escalation in the number of internally displaced peoples; and the destruction of crops, which are the livelihood of local people.
I want to make three requests of the Minister. Will Her Majesty’s Government make representations to the Government of Nigeria to take effective action to protect all their citizens and to call to account those who have been perpetrating atrocities? Will Her Majesty’s Government work with the high commission to ensure that adequate humanitarian aid is available for those suffering the loss of family members and the destruction of their homes and crops, and forced to become IDPs? Will Her Majesty’s Government urge the Nigerian Government to undertake an investigation into the ethnic and religious persecution of the affected people and the operation of the Nigerian army during these attacks?
There is real fear that these developments are part of a strategy by Islamist fundamentalists to drive Christians out of their traditional homelands in northern and central-belt regions of Nigeria. I urge Her Majesty’s Government to respond appropriately to the very real possibility of religious cleansing.
Lord Suri (Con)
My Lords, the human rights situation in Nigeria has deteriorated significantly in recent years, with a particular surge in attacks by non-state actors—notably armed Fulani herdsmen, also known as the Fulani militia.
Successive Governments have failed to respond effectively, and the violence perpetrated has increased exponentially. Although ongoing in central Nigeria since 2011, attacks spiralled following President Buhari’s inauguration in May 2015, with states experiencing intense violence in a cyclical manner. Such attacks by increasingly well-armed herdsmen on farming communities in the states of Adamawa, Benue, Kaduna, Nasarawa, Plateau and Taraba now occur with frequency, precision and asymmetric violence, rendering references to “farmer-herder clashes” obsolete.
Although far from exhaustive, the following events, documented by Christian Solidarity Worldwide, give a powerful insight into the growing problems. Over 150 villagers were killed in Adamawa state in attacks in the run-up to Christmas 2017. During the festive season, villages in southern Kaduna, Benue and Adamawa were then attacked; churches were destroyed and villagers were killed and mutilated. On 24 December 2017, in southern Kaduna state, four villagers were killed as people gathered in the square of Nindem village, in the Godogodo district of the Jema’a local government area, in the evening to sing carols. A female choir singer was shot in the mouth and maimed horribly.
As the new year dawned, Fulani gunmen invaded the home of a traditional ruler in Arak, in the Sanga local government area in the southern part of Kaduna state, killing him and his pregnant wife. Gambo Makama and his wife are reported to have died at around 12.05 am. Their son was also shot, but survived and was hospitalised. Then, 2018 began with an attack by Fulani herdsmen on the Guma and Logo local government areas of Benue state, in which 73 villagers were massacred. At least 1,061 people are thought to have died in the first quarter of this month. Just this past weekend we saw the most recent terrible episode of violence in Plateau state, with over 200 people—mainly women and children—reported to have been killed.
The situation has been exacerbated by inadequate government action which has enabled attacks to continue unabated. Beyond intermittent words of condemnation, the Government have failed to formulate effective strategies to address this violence. This has entrenched impunity and emboldened perpetrators even further, leading to a growth in vigilantism and periodic retaliatory violence, as communities conclude they can no longer rely on government for protection or justice. However, this retaliatory violence is by no means symmetrical—the first quarter of the year saw 106 attacks by the herder militia in central Nigeria, while seven attacks within that timeframe on Fulani herders or communities claimed 61 lives.
The number of attacks and casualties is staggering, and our Government must recognise the considerable escalation in the regularity, scale and intensity of the attacks by Fulani militia on these communities in central Nigeria. We must commit to doing more to encourage and support the federal and state governments to provide protection to those who live in constant threat of attack by a force that constitutes a major threat to national security. As a matter of urgency, we must encourage the formulation of a comprehensive and holistic security strategy that adequately resources the security forces to address this and other sources of violence. Can the Minister provide assurances of action? Will the UK Government do all they can to work with the Government of Nigeria, encouraging them to be more proactive in ending this appalling violence and to protect these vulnerable communities living in constant fear for their lives?
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for introducing the debate. It is impossible to capture every aspect of this complicated situation in such a short debate, but I will briefly touch on the battle against Boko Haram, which is responsible for killing or displacing many thousands of people; multiple accounts, dating back over several years, of sexual attacks by Nigerian forces against women in refugee camps; and violence between herders and farmers, which increasingly resembles ethno-religious cleansing. Addressing multiple forms of violence presents a significant challenge to the Nigerian state, but this cannot and must not become an excuse for inaction.
The situation in Nigeria is equally challenging for countries such as ours. We have a moral duty to help, but we must ensure that such help is effective and is mindful of the various sensitivities involved. Can the Minister inform the House what assessment has been made of the UK’s capacity to provide additional assistance to Nigeria and what forms that may take?
The UK rightly provides training to support the fight against Boko Haram. We should continue to provide that training, but recent events highlight the need for us to also play the role of a critical friend. A fortnight ago, at least 31 people were killed by blasts in Borno State after the chief of the Nigerian army incorrectly told displaced residents that the militants had been defeated and it was safe to return home.
There are long-standing allegations, backed up by NGOs such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, that Nigerian soldiers have sexually assaulted vulnerable refugee women. What representations have the Government made to Nigerian counterparts in the light of recent events and allegations involving the country’s military?
Historically, the struggle between Fulani herders and settled farmers has been a result of competition for resources. Christian Solidarity Worldwide notes that,
“attacks … are … occurring with such frequency, organisation and asymmetry”,
that references to farmer-herder “clashes” no longer suffices. Despite the herder militia taking more lives during 2015, 2016 and 2017 than Boko Haram, President Buhari, who belongs to the same ethnic group, has been accused of turning a blind eye. Last month, NGOs co-ordinated a minute's silence to remember 1,917 people killed by herders and armed bandits between January and May of this year. Concerns have been raised about freedom of expression, with some journalists prosecuted for hate speech after reporting the militia’s actions. Can the Minister confirm whether this conflict and its impact on Nigerian civil society were discussed when the Prime Minister met President Buhari in April? With some arguing that the conflict is being exacerbated by droughts, how are the Government tracking and responding to climate-related conflict across the globe?
I urge the Government to provide practical support to Nigeria that promotes peace and security, supports equitable economic growth, and builds the state’s capacity for the future. As we so often see in other parts of the world, it is only by creating the right societal conditions that Nigeria can overcome religious extremism, promote tolerance and limit the scope for the types of violence that have claimed too many lives in recent years.
Baroness Goldie (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for tabling this debate and for his long-standing interest in community relations. I also thank all noble Lords for their contributions this afternoon. I welcome the opportunity to give the Government’s assessment of the situation in Nigeria and to update noble Lords on United Kingdom action.
It goes without saying that the Government regard the situation in Nigeria as both challenging and deeply disturbing. There are a number of issues at play which are having serious humanitarian consequences. The first are the actions of Boko Haram, of which many noble Lords will sadly be aware. Boko Haram claims to represent Islam, but its interpretation could not be further from the spirit of that peaceful religion. It attacks Nigerians of all faiths who do not subscribe to its extremist views. Its activity—the abduction of schoolgirls and the killings in which it has engaged—is appalling. Its actions have caused immense suffering in Nigeria and neighbouring countries in both Christian and Muslim communities. We assess that the majority of its victims are Muslim. Nearly 2.5 million people have been forced to flee their homes. Boko Haram and its splinter faction, Islamic State West Africa, remain a threat to regional security. Achieving a long-term solution requires non-military measures to improve security and enable economic growth.
The other worrying issue to which many noble Lords referred and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, particularly covered in his speech is the violence between farmers and herdsmen in various areas across Nigeria, and in the Middle Belt in particular, where attacks are carried out by herders on farmers, and vice versa. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, raised the question: does the description “farmer-herdsmen” suffice? This was a point also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox. The description “farmer-herdsmen” is broadly correct, but it does not fully represent the complexity of the situation. Violence has escalated over the past year—the reasons for this are many—but we are not aware of evidence to support the view that religion is driving this conflict.
The other worrying issue is the extent of recent attacks. In an attack by farmers on herder settlements in Mambilla Plateau in June 2017, over 800 people were killed—the majority of them women and children. We are concerned by the increasing violence in recent months. Just last weekend reprisal attacks by herdsmen on farming settlements resulted in at least 86 fatalities—it may be more than that. My noble friend Lord Suri and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, very poignantly described the horrific nature of this violence.
As my noble friend Lady Berridge described eloquently, this is complex and it is far reaching. My noble friend Lord Ahmad noted in this House on 26 March that the causes of these clashes are complex. They relate to land, farming rights, grazing routes and access to water. The situation is not helped by a narrative which overplays the ethno-religious dimensions and oversimplifies a complex picture, conflating criminal violence, caused by cattle rustlers and bandits, for example, with community clashes.
The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked where the weapons are coming from. Regrettably, one suspects there is a widespread availability of weapons; I thought that my noble friend Lady Berridge encapsulated the extent of that problem, as did the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey. In reality, religious extremism or sectarianism is not a key underlying cause of this violence and it would be wrong to conflate these land and water disputes with Boko Haram’s actions.
As Nigeria prepares for elections in 2019 there is a real risk that, without serious effort being made to stem the violence and address the root causes, the conflict between herders and farmers will worsen and become increasingly politicised, threatening peaceful solutions and elections in some states. That is why it is so important that Nigeria not only works to improve the situation in the north-east, but also works to address the causes of the violence between farmers and herders. It is imperative that there is a de-escalation of violence across all affected states. In this context, we welcome President Buhari’s recent commitment to protect the lives and property of all Nigerians and prevent the stoking of religious conflict.
My noble friend Lady Berridge specifically asked about a ranch plan and whether the UK has been engaged with this aspect. We are aware of the Nigerian Government’s proposals for creating cattle ranches for Fulani herdsmen and we are encouraging them to respect the rights and interests of all parties in finding solutions to this conflict.
As many, if not all, contributors have identified, all of this is causing a humanitarian crisis. In north-east Nigeria, 7.7 million people are in need of urgent, life-saving assistance and 1.8 million are displaced. This humanitarian crisis is a direct result of the fragile security situation caused by Boko Haram. My noble friend Lady Stroud spoke with authority on the levels of privation and the challenges that poses.
Very specifically, the noble Lords, Lord Alton, Lord Tunnicliffe, Lord Chidgey, and my noble friends Lady Stroud and Lord Suri, all raised the issue of UK action. The United Kingdom is playing a leading role in helping the Nigerian Government to address immediate humanitarian needs. We have increased our aid funding to £300 million over the next five years. We provide assistance on the basis of need, irrespective of race, religion or ethnicity, and in line with the international humanitarian principles. Last year our support reached more than 1 million people, including children, women and the disabled. We are also fully committed to supporting Nigeria’s efforts to tackle Boko Haram. We have provided intelligence analysis and training for the Nigerian military. With regard to farmer-herder violence, we encourage and support mediation by the state, local government and traditional authorities to defuse community tensions.
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Coventry referred to education and its importance. I could not agree more. DfID programmes are supporting improvements in the quality of education and increasing access for disadvantaged boys and girls to get education, focusing on three states in the north of the country where human development outcomes are particularly poor.
A number of contributors, not least the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and my noble friend Lady Stroud, asked what the balance is between humanitarian and development programmes from that spend. As I said earlier, DfID will spend £273 million this year, balanced between shorter-term humanitarian aid and longer-term support to help the Government of Nigeria to improve basic services, and to increase levels of prosperity and standards of good governance. For example, 1.8 million people gained access to clean water and/or sanitation between 2015 and 2017 through DfID programmes and 260,000 additional women and girls are using modern methods of family planning.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and my noble friend Lady Stroud also asked what assessment has been made of the UK’s capacity to provide additional assistance. I think I have covered that with my response in describing what that £273 million is intended to support.
The noble Lords, Lord Alton, Lord Chidgey and Lord Tunnicliffe, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Coventry and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, all asked what representations the Government have made to Nigerian counterparts in the light of recent events and allegations involving the country’s military. The military training and assistance provided by the UK for the armed forces of Nigeria have consistently emphasised the importance of adherence to internationally recognised rules of engagement as well as the importance of international human rights and international humanitarian law. All our military capacity-building support is delivered in line with HM Government Overseas Security and Justice Assistance Guidance to mitigate the risk of human rights violations. We are concerned about Amnesty International’s report alleging sexual abuses by members of the Nigerian security services. We have made clear to the Nigerian authorities the importance of protecting civilians in conflict and detention.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, also asked whether this conflict and its impact were discussed when the Prime Minister met President Buhari in April. They discussed a number of issues, including security threats faced by the Nigerian people. The focus of these discussions was the conflict with Boko Haram and Islamic State West Africa in north-east Nigeria and the abduction of the Chibok and Dapchi girls.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, also raised climate change and the argument that the conflict is being exacerbated by droughts. Climate change is having a negative effect in Nigeria, particularly in the north, where desertification is increasing. We are currently reviewing the support we are providing to help Nigeria to tackle the effects of climate change.
A final couple of points were raised by my noble friend Lady Berridge and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, about freedom of religion and belief, and by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Coventry and my noble friend Lady Stroud. Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials have also raised this issue and tensions between religious communities specifically with state officials in Borno and Yobe during a visit there in May.
The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, and my noble friend Lady Berridge referred to the Commonwealth. I understand that there is no involvement with the Commonwealth at the moment. The Nigerian Government have not asked for assistance from the Commonwealth or from other countries.
It is imperative that the Nigerian Government address the violence and instability in both the north-east and the Middle Belt areas of the country. They need urgently to put in place long-term solutions that lay the foundations for a sustainable and peaceful future for all communities. The United Kingdom will continue to provide support to the Government of Nigeria in their efforts to build that future. I thank noble Lords for ensuring that this deeply troubling situation remains the subject of continuing discussion.
Disabled People
(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Baroness Thomas of Winchester
To move that this House takes note of the different challenges facing disabled people in the United Kingdom in 2018.
Baroness Thomas of Winchester (LD)
My Lords, I begin by declaring that I receive DLA and that I have Pompe disease, a very rare form of muscular dystrophy. This is the first debate I can remember that is widely enough drawn to give speakers the freedom to bring any aspect of the challenges that disabled people face to the attention of the House. I particularly look forward to the maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London.
For myself, I ask for understanding that I will have to leave so much out, but I hope that, one way or another, a lot of ground will be covered. What might be left out are a lot of hidden disabilities, which can cause so much misunderstanding. I asked my noble friend Lord Addington whether he thought severe dyslexia made him disabled. “Only when I try to write”, he said—a great answer that can be translated into many other settings. In the hidden category might come fluctuating autoimmune diseases such as lupus, heart problems or autism. People with severe mental health conditions might not see themselves as disabled, but if they and others can easily walk away from a blue badge space in a supermarket car park they will be labelled as frauds. No one with these conditions must be overlooked, particularly by ESA and PIP assessors, or, for that matter, by HR departments.
This year, we are celebrating 100 years since women first got the vote, but it was more than that. They were excluded from so much of public life that it is no wonder the suffragettes were so militant. Today, we take it for granted that women can rise to the top in any profession, but the same is not true of disabled people. It was only 23 years ago that the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, whom we miss today very much, and others were disruptively demonstrating outside Parliament against the widespread discrimination of disabled people. That led to the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. They then had to demonstrate again some years later to establish the concept of independent living, now enshrined as Article 19 of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which is of fundamental importance to the lives of many thousands of us and which is under grave threat now.
Just for the record, independent living does not mean living alone. Although its basic meaning is simply the opposite of living in a residential care home, it also means enabling disabled people to participate in all areas of life. The main reason it is under threat is, of course, the lack of adequate funding for social care and for NHS continuing care.
The Independent Living Fund was a government-funded discretionary scheme, set up in 1988, working alongside local authority schemes to help people with high support needs live in the community. It helped 23,500 of the most severely disabled people to live independently. In other words, it gave them choice and control over the support they needed to go about their daily lives, hopeful that the barriers to equal citizenship would be progressively removed. Then, the global financial system went into meltdown and the fund was closed to new members in 2010. It was finally closed in 2015, with responsibility and funding passed to local authorities to administer. Crucially, the money was not ring-fenced. Funding for social care has been cut by £7 billion since 2010.
Many recipients were cut back to receiving just enough to fill very basic personal care costs, with the shadow of the residential home looming once again. As one person put it to me, “If you are more or less confined within the four walls of your home, your ambitions are diminished to mere survival”. I met a young man of 22 with Duchenne muscular dystrophy when I was in hospital earlier this year. His care package had been scaled right back because of funding cuts. When he asked how he was supposed to manage without full-time personal assistance, he was asked, “Can’t your girlfriend help you?”.
I am not asking for the ILF to be reopened as it was, but I am asking for a guarantee from the Government that the whole concept of independent living will be reconfirmed and enabled to flourish and will not become a postcode lottery. There is no statutory right to independent living, and while the Government pay lip service to its core tenets of increased choice and control, there has been no co-ordinated action across government after support for the Disability Action Alliance was withdrawn two years ago. There is a huge amount of fear that those who have been thriving in their own homes with support might have to move into residential care, with most of their freedoms taken away. The vision of independent living that led to the direct-payments legislation of the 1990s, passed with all-party support and championed in this House by the noble Lord, Lord McColl of Dulwich, is rapidly disappearing. The well-being principle, embedded in the Care Act 2014, is being abandoned.
My main question, therefore, to the Minister is to ask whether the Government will heed the voices of so many disabled people who do not want their lives to go backwards but fear this will happen if independent living is not given a significant reboot. Scope has called for a cross-government strategy—a good idea, which I endorse. Disabled people have a myriad of different conditions, but there is one thing that knits us together, and that is that being disabled is very expensive. Research from Scope has found that on average disabled people face extra costs of £570 a month—sometimes, I fear, because they are not getting as much DLA or PIP as they need. I shall return to PIP later.
One of the most expensive problems many of us with mobility impairments have to face is adapting our homes. A means-tested disabled facilities grant might be available from the local authority. This is capped at £30,000, which sounds like a lot of money but does not go very far if a through-floor lift has to be installed, doors widened and a bathroom changed into a wet room. One family whose son has Duchenne muscular dystrophy had to pay £70,000 of their own savings and racked up £15,000 in credit card debts to adapt their home. They were simply not able to carry their child up and down stairs anymore as he got older.
It is only in the past few months that the Government have finally announced that they are activating—although we do not know when—that part of the Equality Act which gives leaseholders the right, at their own expense, to adapt the common parts of the building where they live. Perhaps the Minister could say when we can expect that to happen. Surely the DFG should rise in line with inflation, and local authorities should be encouraged to ensure that new developments have at least 10% of houses built to lifetime homes standards. In May, the EHRC published an 18-month survey showing that only 7% of housing in England meets accessibility standards; 365,000 people said that they were in unsuitable housing. Few local authorities across Britain set targets for accessible housing, although there is strong evidence that such housing saves on health and social care costs in the future.
I now turn to the Government’s ambitious plans to get 1 million more disabled people into work in the next 10 years. There appears to be a lot of work in progress, which I am sure the Minister will tell us about and which I welcome. Access to Work is a great, if underadvertised, scheme to help disabled people in the workplace. It would make a lot of difference if it could be extended to volunteers and interns, and even made portable. I cannot, however, help coming back to the whole picture. Will there be enough personal assistants or care workers, post Brexit, to assist many working-age disabled people to get ready for the working day? Is there enough accessible public transport that can accommodate more wheelchair and mobility scooter users?
Are there enough accessible workplaces with suitable toilets? The lack of accessible and suitable loos the length and breadth of this country is a disgrace. Even Jobcentre Plus offices do not have them. In November 2017, Muscular Dystrophy UK—on whose board I sit—took over as co-chair of the Changing Places consortium, which is responsible for the campaign for fully accessible Changing Places toilets with a bench and hoist. There are quite a lot of these, but not nearly enough. This comment from a frustrated parent says it all: “The lack of suitable toilets in the UK is the blight of our life and excludes our son Mylor from accessing and enjoying everyday activities most of us take for granted”. The building regulations need to be changed. At a minimum, surely these toilets should be mandatory in all large new-builds.
Before I end, I must come back to my old adversary, the PIP process—the main disability benefit. The payments are a lifeline for many disabled people, but the process could be working so much better. We are constantly told that more people than ever are getting PIP, but, in light of the huge number of successful appeals, I think it should have a comprehensive overhaul. The descriptors need revisiting, with the ludicrous 20-metre rule abolished and 50 metres restored. Bringing back assessments in house from the outsourcing companies is gathering support. The assessors need to be better trained, whoever employs them, and have no targets to meet, internal or not. Above all, the hostile environment, which we hear so much about from claimants, must be banned.
To summarise, I long for there to be a cross-government collaboration with disabled people themselves, not their proxies, which has real clout in making independent living a welcome reality once again, and I would like to hear the Minister say that she will follow this up.
I shall end with a more upbeat message. Disabled people in the media are becoming more visible year by year as TV presenters, comedians, actors and reporters. Long may this continue. I look forward to the debate. I beg to move.
Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to participate in this debate. In doing so, I declare my interest as set out in the register. I thank the noble Baroness for securing this debate and her excellent introduction. Her work and her commitment to this area need no introduction. I am also very much looking forward to the maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. Her career is impressive. From Westminster Hospital to the Palace of Westminster, via Tommy’s, Chel West and the marvellous Marsden, it is pretty clear that Bishop Sarah, if I may, has positively impacted people’s lives every day. I look forward to sitting behind her in your Lordships’ House in the years to come and to her wisdom drifting up to this Back-Bencher.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, said, there are many areas that one could cover in this debate: public transport, public realm, aviation, the built environment and so on. I shall limit my comments to just two areas: Channel 4 and public appointments.
At Channel 4, we took the power of the Paralympics to attempt not just to change attitudes towards, and opportunities for, disabled people but to change Channel 4 as an entity. In 2016, I was privileged to chair the channel’s Year of Disability, not least because I got to chair a group of people called the Year of Disability advisers, which made me chair of YODA. We looked in front of the camera and behind it and demonstrated that, sometimes, difference can be driven in a short space of time. We took the power of the channel and used personal testimony. Within seven months, we not only changed levels of self-declaration for disability in Channel 4 but increased it fourfold.
We saw the first audio-described advert. We attracted brands from across the world to put together an innovative advertising campaign involving disabled people and put £1 million into it. Have we cracked it at Channel 4? Not a bit of it. Are we on a journey? We certainly are.
I was honoured to be asked earlier this month by the Cabinet Office Minister to lead a review into disabled people’s participation in public appointments. Public appointments play such an important role in influencing and transforming our society, and not just in the organisations where they are made. However, when it comes to public appointments, how many people know about the full range of opportunities that are out there? Current open opportunities range wide from the Darwin commission and Commonwealth scholarships to data ethics, sea fish and no few in Work and Pensions, Justice and Business. There are many opportunities, but who knows about them? Who applies for them? Who is interviewed? Who is appointed? Who is enabled to thrive in those roles? That is the purpose of the review I am undertaking: to create an inclusive environment where disabled people can flourish through that public appointments process.
I will be going across the country to organisations, groups and individuals to hear their views. What are the barriers? What are the blockers? What needs to be done? I say to anybody out there: be in touch with me; contact me on Twitter @LordCHolmes; tell me your experiences of the public appointments process. How was it for you: good, bad or indifferent? Tell me what your experience was. If public appointments are not reflective of our society, how can we be assured that the best decisions are being made in many elements of our public life?
That is Channel 4 and public appointments, but there is a darker side to this debate, which is that there is still more than a deal of discrimination out there. Just by dint of having a guide dog, I can find myself excluded from restaurants, bars and minicabs. A number of years ago, I went to a restaurant and the guy blocked my entrance; I could not even cross the threshold. He said, “We don’t serve guide dogs”. I said, “That’s okay, I don’t eat them”. That is amusing, but not so amusing is the reality of such discrimination. When you experience discrimination, it is not a cerebral experience. You feel it in your heart and in your guts.
I have no doubt whatever as to my noble friend the Minister’s commitment to disabled people, so I want to ask her to outline the Government’s aspiration for disabled people in educational attainment, employment opportunities and public participation. What are some of the key success measures?
Ultimately, it is even more than just considering the blockers, the barriers and the issues that face disabled people. We are talking about enablement, empowerment and addressing that most desperate of drains on our society: the fact that talent is everywhere but, currently, opportunity is not.
Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Thomas for introducing this debate and for her dedicated commitment to campaigning on behalf of disabled people at all times and on every possible occasion. I follow the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, in terms of his engagement in what could be done for people with sensory deprivation, which is I want to address. I declare an interest: I have a deaf daughter and have honorary roles in a number of charities for the deaf: Action on Hearing Loss, the National Deaf Children’s Society and DeafKidz International.
On 3 May, I asked a Question about video relay services and received a very disappointing and inadequate Answer. The Government estimate that only 25,000 people in the UK are sign language users, with the implication that they were not a priority, because the number is too small, and that attention should be given to the much larger numbers of people who have acquired deafness during their lives and do not rely on sign language. The 25,000 figure is not recognised by the deaf community, which tends to suggest a figure between 50,000 and 70,000, because it includes friends, family, employers and teachers. The figures seem to be derived from the 2011 census, the first to ask a question about sign language, but the questions were different north and south of the border. In England and Wales, the question was, “What is your main language?” In Scotland, it was, “Other than English, what language do you speak at home?” Not surprisingly, the replies were different too. In Scotland, 12,533 people gave a positive response. In England and Wales, with almost 10 times the population, the figure was 15,487.
I suggest the truth is somewhere in between. Yet the Government seem to be choosing the lower figure, because that suits the argument that there are not enough. But these people deserve to have their fundamental rights acknowledged. They are British people, using a British language, which for many of them is their only or principal means of communication. They deserve full recognition. I am not suggesting that they are not given any recognition, but they need more recognition than they have achieved so far. I am also concerned that, in the exchanges that followed my question, there was an unconscious division being made between those with acquired deafness—deafness that comes with age—and deafness that comes at birth or in early childhood. I suggest that to create that division is unworthy, unnecessary and unjustified.
I wholly support, and have campaigned for, providing communication support for all deaf people. The technology we have developed in recent years, including voice to text, subtitling, text and email, has greatly enhanced the quality of life of all deaf people. I introduced a Private Member’s Bill to that effect. When we add in cochlear implants, digital hearing aids and loop systems, it is easy to see how much has been achieved for deaf people of all forms of deafness, acquired at all stages of life. However, sign language users, who are thinly spread across the country, remain frustrated. The voice to text service is cumbersome and not effective and the video relay service is not as freely available as the Government maintain. In Scotland, users can register for access to a wide range of public services using video relay services between 8 am and midnight seven days a week. Why is that service not available in England and Wales? If the Government are not prepared to follow the US example, where it is available 24/7 for all purposes, why not offer it on a limited number of minutes, for example, to registered users? That could easily be absorbed by the telecom companies, which turn over £30 billion a year.
In a recent episode of the Swedish detective series “The Bridge” there was a scene which showed the lead character and her colleague calling out to a woman reading a paper and getting no response. When it transpired that the woman was deaf, the lead character, Saga, signed to her, prompting her colleague to ask if she knew sign language. She answered that she had learned some, but not enough to conduct a police interview. That scene demonstrated the value of teaching sign language as a proper subject on the school curriculum, as I know happens across Sweden, Norway and Denmark. It helps increase awareness of deafness, the sophistication and complexity of the language, and provides a potential pool of future sign language interpreters. Again, Scotland is leading the way on this. I know the Government have a moratorium on new courses or exams, but they have given a positive response, so will they allow the preparation of such a course, so that as and when new qualifications are allowed, it is ready to go? A video relay service would increase the effectiveness of the interpreters we have, raise the quality of life of sign language users and enable hearing people and deaf people to communicate at a distance at any time of the day or night.
The campaign for deaf people has very strong support. Young people are keen to see sign language developed and used, and I suggest that making it a language course for schools and enabling interpreters to be trained, and for it to be accessible by video, is a way to ensure that deaf people, with their own British language, are not excluded from society, but included, as they deserve to be.
Lord Patel (CB)
My Lords, I too look forward enthusiastically to the maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. I remember her work when she was Chief Nursing Officer, championing the cause of patients and their involvement, and introducing the concept of the modern matron. It is always a pleasure to take part in a debate led by my friend—I mean that in the true sense—the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester.
I want to highlight the specific challenges faced by children and young people who suffer from life-limiting and life-threatening conditions. The needs of these children, who are often diagnosed at birth, is varied and often complex, making it crucial that they can access palliative care throughout their illnesses and their lives. The pressure on parents of having a child with a life-limiting condition is immense, and most relationships suffer, with 36% experiencing a breakdown of the family, making social care vital. A national study by Julia’s House children’s hospice and Bournemouth University found that 75% of couples caring for a child with a life-limiting condition have no access to respite care. The Carers Action Plan, launched at the beginning of June, says:
“The Department of Health and Social Care will fund a project on actions to promote best practice for local authorities, clinical commissioning groups, and other service providers and commissioners on carer breaks and respite care”.
Research by the children’s charity Together for Short Lives found that while 84% of clinical commissioning groups reported that they commission short breaks for children who need palliative care, more than one in five local authorities do not commission short breaks for children with life-limiting and life-threatening conditions, despite having a legal duty to do so.
The second issue concerns the grants to children’s hospices. Children’s hospices provide crucial support for parents and carers—92% of children’s hospice charities provided end-of-life care to children and young people in 2015-16. Despite this fantastic work, voluntary sector children’s palliative care providers receive, on average, 22% of their charitable costs from statutory sources, compared to an average of 33% for adult hospices. The NHS England Children’s Hospice Grant amounts to some £11 million per year—not a large sum of money—despite increasing costs and demands.
Medical advances mean that 55,000 young adults aged between 18 and 40 have life-limiting conditions in England. The Carers Action Plan also says that the Department of Health and Social Care will fund a project to support parent carers to navigate the transition from child to adult services as their child approaches the age of 18.
Will the Minister make sure that the project outlined in the action plan includes young people with life-limiting and life-threatening conditions in its scope? Secondly, in light of the fantastic work that children’s hospices do and the pressure they take away from the NHS services, can she commit to bringing about parity of funding between children’s and adult services, including by increasing the NHS England children’s hospice grant? If that matches the support given to adult hospice services, it will come to some £25 million per year—not a large sum, compared with a budget of £110 billion.
Finally, will the Minister commit to assist in providing NHS clinical commissioning groups, sustainability and transformation partnerships and local authorities with guidance reminding them that they are responsible for planning and funding short breaks for children with life-limiting conditions? I realise that the Minister is not directly responsible for what I am asking for, but if she agrees, will she pass this on to the relevant Minister and ask that answers be given in writing and placed in the Library?
Lord Shinkwin (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, for securing this debate and I look forward to the right reverend Prelate’s contribution.
At a time when everyone has had to tighten their belt to get the British economy back on its feet, it is important to acknowledge the immense generosity of the Great British taxpayer in helping disabled people like me to face the challenges that go with living with a disability. The latest data from the independent OECD shows that the UK’s public spending on disability and incapacity is the second highest in the G7 at 2% of GDP—a record £54 billion.
But if our message to taxpayers is “Thank you”, what might taxpayers’ message be to Government? I can hazard a guess: “Give us value for our money”. For me, that means honouring the promise of the Disability Discrimination Act in time for its 25th anniversary in 2020. We on these Benches claim to be the party of business, so let us enforce the DDA and ensure that the immense market opportunities of tapping the purple pound—disabled people’s spending power—are realised. Let us shift the dynamics of the disability debate and break the unsustainable cycle of dependency. To echo the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, and my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond, let us optimise opportunity and help talented disabled graduates to emulate the success of their BAME and women counterparts by realising their potential in corporate boardrooms up and down the country.
What, then, is the message to disabled people about the challenges we face in 2018? Of course, every Government could spend more on benefits but that is by no means the biggest challenge we face. I realised that in the Republic of Ireland last month, I saw it in Argentina earlier this month and again on the Isle of Man only yesterday. In all three, the conspiracy of silence while majority votes were cast to make it easier for non-disabled people to terminate our existence before birth was shocking. So I say to colleagues, especially those with responsibility for women and equalities issues: do not patronise us by making it easier for non-disabled people to kill us simply for the crime of being diagnosed with a disability before birth, and then claiming it is all about equality. If equality has become so distorted that it now justifies a stronger group of human beings condemning another, weaker group to death for disability, right up to birth, we really are in trouble. I believe that this distortion of equality is the single biggest challenge we face because the statistics show that our very survival is under threat.
In conclusion, I ask my noble friend to convey to the Prime Minister and her ministerial colleagues that the Government are right to insist on devolution in Northern Ireland being respected because no human being is ever less human or less equal for being disabled—at any stage of their existence.
The Lord Bishop of London (Maiden Speech)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their warm welcome and am grateful for the practical support I have received from the officers and staff. I am humbled by the knowledge and wisdom represented in your Lordships’ House and I am very conscious that it is a privilege to be a Member. It is a responsibility that I will take seriously. I pay tribute to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Chartres, my predecessor as the Bishop of London, and his service in this House. I am glad that he continues to serve in his new capacity on the Cross Benches. When it was announced that I was to be the 133rd Bishop of London, my friend, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Salisbury, said that I was a nurse to my fingertips and a modern Boadicea. In this speech, I will try to channel more of the former and suggest that noble Lords speak to my right reverend friend about the latter.
I became a Christian as a teenager so my choice of career as a nurse was a vocation. It was an opportunity to reflect the love of God that I had come to know. I specialised as a cancer nurse and became a ward sister at the old Westminster Hospital just around the corner from here, and then later the director of nursing at the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital on the Fulham Road. In 1999 I was appointed the Government’s Chief Nursing Officer for England. While in that role I trained for ordination in the Church of England.
When I moved into the Church of England, I continued to contribute to health, first as a non-executive NHS board member and more recently as a member of the council of King’s College London. I am a passionate supporter of the NHS. It has touched my life in many ways: as a parent; at the time of the death of my parents; and, of course for many years as a nurse. I have seen examples in this country of world-class care and, as we celebrate 70 years of the NHS, I pay tribute both to those who had the courage and vision to set up the NHS and to those who continue to care within the NHS today.
They say you can take the nurse out of nursing, but never nursing out of the nurse. I am the Bishop I am today because of that first vocation to nursing, and compassion and healing are constants at the heart of who I am. I would not go so far as to say that this House needs a ward sister, for fear of being taken the wrong way; but I hope that in my time here and with my background, I can bring as much to this place of the pastoral and spiritual as I can of the professional.
I worked in London both as a nurse and as a priest before moving to the south-west as Bishop of Crediton in the diocese of Exeter. The people of Devon are thrilled that, as the Bishop of London, I come to your Lordships’ House with some understanding of rural life. Alas, the diocese of London has fewer farms. We serve a population of four million, covering 277 square miles of Greater London, north of the Thames and west of the Lea, from the Isle of Dogs in the east to Staines in the west and as far north as Enfield. Your Lordships will be delighted to know that you are sitting in my diocese.
London is of course world-facing. It is multicultural and multi-faith. It is a city of energy and diversity, open to all. But it is also a city of inequality and deprivation. As we have seen most recently in the tragedy of Grenfell Tower, it is also a city where people can feel ignored, marginalised and—often justifiably—angry. I am the Bishop of London, but I intend to be a bishop for London. And I will do so alongside those other distinguished bishops for London in this House, my right reverend friends the Bishops of Chelmsford and Southwark.
Along with celebrating 70 years of the National Health Service, I have been delighted to celebrate 70 years of the Paralympic movement. At evensong at St Paul’s Cathedral earlier this month we watched a demonstration of wheelchair fencing under the dome. It was a reminder of how sport can enable people with disabilities to flourish. We should not lose sight of the fact that in the UK, one in five of the population has a disability of some sort, the majority of those people acquiring their disability in later life.
Our churches, like our society, need to up their game when it comes to being welcoming and accessible places for people with disabilities. There are some good examples, including the Disability Advisory Group at St Martin-in-the-Fields, here in London. The driving force for their mission is to change attitudes towards those with disabilities—as not simply people presenting pastoral or practical challenges, but equals who bring unique potential to aid our renewal and mission as a church. In wider society, unlocking potential for those with disabilities brings benefit to us all.
As we celebrate 70 years of the NHS I am aware that for people with disabilities, going into general hospitals can be one of their biggest challenges, because their specific needs—such as their spinal needs—are often not met. Therefore, hospitals disable them. I know that as we move forward, there will be more challenges for the NHS and more difficult decisions, which is why I welcomed the recommendation in 2016 of the Equality Act 2010 and Disability Committee, chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, which called for a cumulative impact assessment of the decisions made in the public sector on disabled people.
I am immensely grateful to all who have welcomed me today, and look forward to the rest of the speeches in this debate, and the many debates to come.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, it is a real honour to be able to speak after the new right reverend—and right honourable, for she is also a privy counsellor—Prelate the Bishop of London following her powerful maiden speech, in which she demonstrated her extraordinary life dedicated to Christ since her teens. We in this House note that she joins us as the third most senior cleric in the Church of England and the first woman in this role, after a meteoric rise from 2015 when she was made the Bishop of Crediton. She and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester were the first two women to be ordained as bishops in Canterbury Cathedral, and weeks later she was the first woman in the Church of England to lead an ordination service.
We have heard this afternoon of the impressive breadth of her experience beyond her priestly ministry and, indeed, of her many firsts in the Church. Bishop Sarah began her nursing career just over the river at St Thomas’ and around the corner at Westminster Hospital. It culminated in her appointment as Chief Nursing Officer and director of patient experience for England in 1999. It is worthy of note that she was the youngest woman to hold that position. Her passion for putting the patient first transformed nursing, perhaps most memorably through the new role of matron.
In her recent enthronement sermon at St Paul’s Cathedral, Bishop Sarah remarked that 150 years ago that week suffragettes had placed a bomb under the seat in which she had just been enthroned as the first woman to be Bishop of London. She said—I hope she will allow me to quote her—
“Let me reassure you, I do not come carrying bombs—or perhaps not literal ones, anyway. But I am aware that, as the first woman Bishop of London, I am necessarily subversive, and it’s a necessity I intend to embrace”.
This House and its predecessor, the King’s council of barons and bishops, have seen subversive bishops before, and I know that in welcoming the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London to your Lordships’ House we see before us a woman who will not be afraid to tackle difficult issues and who will speak truth to her faith and to power.
I thank and congratulate my colleague and noble friend Lady Thomas on securing this debate. Like her and the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, I was a member of the Lords Equality Act 2010 and Disability Committee. Today, in the brief time that is left available, I want to focus on the availability of short-term care and social support for disabled children in our country today. We have already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Patel, about the issues facing children’s hospices, so I shall not repeat those points. However, I want to highlight the Disabled Children’s Partnership’s survey of parents, which found that 64.9% of family members surveyed thought that the quality of social care services had worsened over the past few years; that over three-quarters of family members thought that the quality of health services had worsened over the past few years; and that nearly half said they knew there were plans to reduce social care for children in their area.
Some 49,000 babies, children and young people with life-limiting or life-threatening conditions need palliative care from the point at which their conditions are diagnosed or recognised—which is often, but not always, at birth—until the end of their lives. Parents usually provide the bulk of the round-the-clock care that these often seriously ill children need at home. It is crucial that they are able to access care and support throughout the trajectory of that child’s illness.
Most disabled children receive no regular support at all from outside their close family and friends, and the number who receive social care services—and the number of hours of support per week—is reducing. Yesterday, local councils warned of further cuts to come, and evidence gathered by the Local Government Association shows that local authorities are overspending their children’s social care budgets by £600 million. Can a national inquiry looking at the children’s palliative care strategy, including short breaks, and a family- centred and holistic approach to health and social care interventions, be established very soon? The Government need to issue joint guidance on short breaks to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and the Secretary of State for Education, and they need to make sure that funding matches the increased demand for children’s palliative care and that direction is given on commissioning responsibilities. It is vital that services—such as those at Nascot Lawn, which I have spoken about in your Lordships’ House many times, and which sadly is going to close—are not closed over the head of the services that these children need.
My grand-daughter has various life-limiting illnesses, and she regards them as special. Aged two, she talks about her feeding tube as her “special tube”. If disabled children can see the specialness and normality of their lives, it is up to us as a country to ensure that we provide the special support that they need to live their lives to the full.
Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, for bringing this necessary and humane subject before your Lordships today. I am so pleased that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London has made her excellent speech today, which adds importance to a matter that can so easily be discarded when there are so many demands on our overstretched country.
There are very many different categories of disabled people, all needing different things. Some of the conditions are very rare and complex. I make a plea to the Government to make some of the forms which have to be filled in for benefits or the blue badge scheme more simple and relevant to the different groups. I have noticed, in 2018, that there seem to be more and more people, and a percentage of them will be disabled. There are long queues at A&E, and patients have long waits for operations, many of which are cancelled at the last minute. I have noticed that many more disabled people are using electric wheelchairs. With an electric wheelchair, one has to use a ramp as they are too heavy and too difficult to tip.
It is difficult to fathom why, when some places have steps, the attitude differs. In Harrogate, in James Street, there are two shops side by side with an identical four-inch step. One has a ramp and the other does not. The ramps are now very light, easy to move and do not cost very much. If only the Government had listened to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, who had a Bill this year on access, this unequal, casual attitude might have been rectified. I consider the noble Lord an expert, as in another place he had several senior ministerial positions and now uses a wheelchair. As the country moves on, disabled people need helpful and clear legislation, otherwise they will not be able to live independently.
Forty-four years ago, I founded the Spinal Injuries Association with colleagues, as I know how valuable the support of voluntary organisations are to severely disabled people. A year ago, Martin was injured and sustained a T10 spinal injury at the Manchester Arena bomb explosion. Garry, one of our peer support officers, who is spinal cord injured himself, went to support him. Martin says:
“I remember Garry coming to see me, it was the day I’m being told I’ll never walk again. I’m meeting this incredible person, who is telling me that my life can be good”.
When Martin was told he had a spinal cord injury and understood that he would never walk again, he was upset, but he realised that he was surrounded by his family and friends; so with Garry’s help, he is getting on with his life. SIA is always pleased to help wherever possible.
So many accidents happen, with long-term injury leaving the person paralysed. It can happen with traffic injuries, diving accidents, horse riding, building and falls of all types. After the correct hospitalisation, patients may have to contend with getting suitable housing, schools, universities, changes of employment, and with having to drive a hand-controlled car and, if they have a partner, being accepted and living in the community, which may need a great deal of adjusting.
When I drive around I often notice new buildings and new housing estates going up. Can the Minister say whether any of these are for rent and, if so, would they be adapted for someone using a wheelchair? In Australia, rented accommodation suitable for disabled people is reserved solely for lease to them. Can we not do the same in this country? This debate covers many aspects of life, but disability is so diverse, it spans so many government departments. Is it not time for them all to come together to solve the individual disabled person’s needs?
Baroness Eaton (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interests as found in the register. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, for bringing this important debate to this House today. I also thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London for her inspirational maiden speech.
Disability of varying kinds is a feature of the experience of many families, my own included. In every country this can bring challenges but also great joy. Some 15% of humanity lives with a disability. Many go about raising families, founding firms and stunning us with their sporting prowess and the quality of their scholarship and public service, not least in this House. Thousands, though, face extreme stigma in communities, economies and legal systems so weak or complex as to put them perpetually at risk. So while today we are focusing on challenges in Britain, I will, in passing, commend Ministers in the Department for International Development who in London next month will co-host the first ever Global Disability Summit. This imminent important gathering puts our deliberations today in their international context.
As the chairman of the charity Near Neighbours, which seeks to build community cohesion and integration in England’s towns and cities, I am sadly and increasingly aware of how exclusion and hate crime is becoming more widespread in parts of our society. Some families find it hard to give their children—especially their daughters—the chance to work, study, love or travel freely. Some in local neighbourhoods wish that others who live there “had never been born”. Meanwhile, others have religious or ethnic traditions that actively exclude members of their community who could make powerful contributions.
Over 60,000 families were impacted by race hate crime in 2016-17. In 2017 the Community Security Trust recorded 2,254 hate attacks on members of the Jewish community. This was a 10% increase on the previous year. Disabled Britons will recognise these trends. In the same two-year period of 2016-17, hate crime against disabled children rose by an astonishing 150%. Indeed, nearly 6,000 disabled people endured hate crime; sometimes an attack will be because of both their disability and their race or religion.
It is heart-breaking how the patterns of hate crime facing disabled people have come to mirror—and at moments surpass—those faced by other communities more generally. Hate crime against disabled people can be controlling and can involve very close carers or family members as perpetrators. Crimes can involve money, sex and access to housing. They include open abuse in the street or in seeking work. They are hard to record, not least because victims prefer to report to third parties rather than to the police. Typically, they increase in frequency and severity.
Beyond this are the subtle and repeated exclusions. There have been legal cases where hospitality for disabled people in temples and other places of worship has been felt to have been compromised. Discussion of disabilities arising from genetic conditions is often almost impossible, especially in certain cities such as Bradford, where I live. I even noticed that, in Roman Catholic canon law, until 1983 epilepsy was a block to ordination—and it is unclear today whether physical disability or historic mental illness remain so. The upshot can be isolation, alienation and other unwanted challenges where they ought not to be easily accepted.
I am aware that the Home Office has a hate crime action plan. I am also aware of pioneers, such as Boston’s Ruderman Family Foundation, which has given very large funds across America and Israel to make the activities and architecture of synagogues and charities fully accessible. But might we do more? The trick, it seems to me, is how we combine civic energy and resources right across government. I would be especially pleased to hear from the Minister whether she might be able to explore how the lessons of the work of the Ruderman Foundation and those like it might be replicated here. I would be delighted also if she might consider inquiring how the Government’s recent integration strategy, the new Carers Action Plan and successful Disability Confident campaign might be more fully harnessed to mitigate some of the risks that I have described. These programmes are laudable on their own but might benefit additionally from being more actively linked.
If the challenges that disabled people face are as harsh as I have described, often arising from complex and cross-cutting issues, our response must be equally fleet of foot. Disabled people in all our families deserve it.
Baroness Ludford (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Thomas for this debate and I appreciate being able to follow the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London; it is an honour. I wanted to take part in this debate not only because it is a very important subject but because of my experience—my second-hand experience and observation—as the wife of a person with a physical disability; to be specific, a prosthetic leg, following a leg amputation three years ago. I want to focus on issues of accessibility in public places. I have become aware of how much still needs to be done in this regard.
Disability and limited mobility is the overlooked equality characteristic of all those covered by the equality legislation. Obviously there is a huge spectrum of conditions—we have heard about deafness, visual impairment as well as physical disability—but, when you add up all those involved, plus family members, a very high proportion of the population is affected. It is not a niche concern. A lot of us, even if not currently classified as having a disability, are either partners or members of the family of people who are, or can expect to be, in that category—and a lot of us will get frail in our older age. I think it was the right reverend Prelate who said that one in five people would have a disability as they got older.
I have been able to observe the challenges that my husband faces, and I will give an example. Obviously, people are in different situations, and those who are wheelchair users have their own challenges, but, as someone who is walking—though with difficulty—he gives us an example of the failure to think of those with limited ability to walk. He often takes a train from King’s Cross and requests assistance, but the information desk at which he has to report is further from the main entrance of the station than the platform to which he has to go. He is expected to walk a long way to the information desk for assistance. That is a lack of joined-up thinking about people’s needs. Hotels are another challenge, as getting a stool for the shower often takes some persuasion and, when provided, has been known to be too big to allow the shower door to close. It ought not to be exceptional to have to ask for these kinds of physical supports.
A lot of help would be given if handrails were more common. In one hotel in central London a handrail would have helped to get up a set of stairs. The person whom I asked said, “No, we are listed so we can’t have a handrail”. I would be surprised if the legislation on listed buildings prevented installing handrails. If it does, it needs to be changed. My point is that this kind of assistance would help a lot of people. It is not disability-specific; it could help a lot of people as we age and as we live longer.
Liberal Democrats are known as “pavement politicians”, but the appalling state of many pavements does not help those with limited mobility. I am sure it does not help those in wheelchairs and it certainly does not help those with a prosthetic leg. You also have to deal with the problems of more aggressive cyclists, skateboards and scooters on pavements. There needs to be more concern and awareness that many more of us will need much better accessibility in public places, not only now but as we get older.
Lord Low of Dalston (CB)
My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I join others in congratulating the right reverend Prelate on her impressive maiden speech and also the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, on securing this debate. It is extremely timely because the challenges facing disabled people are at a critical point. There is something of a stand-off between disabled people, their organisations and the Government, and the Government just do not seem to be listening.
In Being Disabled in Britain—A Journey Less Equal, the Equality and Human Rights Commission recently assessed the state of equality and human rights for disabled people in Britain and concluded:
“While progress has been made in some areas, the overall picture … is that disabled people are facing more barriers and falling further behind. … millions of disabled people … are still not being treated as equal citizens and continue to be denied the everyday rights non-disabled people take for granted, such as being able to access transport, appropriate health services and housing, or benefit from education and employment. The disability pay gap is persistent and widening, access to justice has deteriorated, and welfare reforms have significantly affected the already low living standards of disabled people”.
Since 2016, the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities has published two reports examining the UK’s record on disability. In both reports the committee expressed serious concerns that the level of protection and support provided to disabled people was not adequate. In 2016, the committee considered a formal complaint under the optional protocol from a number of organisations of disabled people and found that, as a result of austerity measures, there was reliable evidence of “grave or systematic violations” of disabled people’s rights to an adequate standard of living and social protection, to work and employment, and to independent living. After reviewing the UK in August 2017, the committee published its concluding observations, which raised significant concerns about disability rights in the UK and made over 80 recommendations for action by the UK Government and the devolved Governments of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
In March this year, the EHRC published a cumulative impact assessment of the impact of changes to the tax and benefit system since 2010 on different groups—something the Government said could not be done. Households with one or more disabled members are significantly more adversely affected than those with no disabled members. On average, families with a disabled adult have lost about £2,500 a year since the changes in 2010. If the family also includes a disabled child, the impact is just over £6,500—over 13% of average net income. This compares to a reduction of about £1,000 for non-disabled families. Negative impacts are particularly large for households with more disabled members and more severely disabled members. On average, disabled lone parents with at least one disabled child fare even worse, losing almost £3 out of every £10 of their net income. In cash terms, their average losses are almost £10,000 a year. Figures from the Institute for Fiscal Studies and Professor John Hills of LSE tell a very similar story.
Of all the challenges facing disabled people, one of the greatest is the Government themselves. When opposing the £29 a week cut to employment and support allowance which the Government introduced in 2016, I said:
“By this action, the Government have betrayed the trust of disabled people and they should not be surprised if they forfeit it for the rest of their time in office”.—[Official Report, 7/3/16; col. 1074.]
That is still my view, but the Government could still begin to turn things round if they got behind the UN committee’s recommendations and began implementing them—and reversed the cut to ESA, of course. A good start would be for them to begin engaging with disabled people and their organisations, which they are not doing at the moment. They could hold a summit with organisations for disabled people to co-produce an action plan for taking the rights of disabled people forward or, slightly more long term, they could set up a task force with the same agenda, like the Labour Government did at the beginning of their term in 1997. I should be most interested to hear whether the Minister would be interested in taking either of these ideas forward with her colleagues.
Baroness Wyld (Con)
My Lords, I add my congratulations to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London on her powerful and moving maiden speech. It is an honour to follow her, and I look forward to getting to know her here and outside the Chamber.
I will talk today about disabled people in public life, picking up on the comments made by my noble friend Lord Holmes, because this was my area of focus during my time in Downing Street. I have spoken before about the work the Government have done to increase the number of women on public boards and the very clear outcomes achieved. But it is important that we acknowledge that we simply have not had the same success in attracting or appointing more disabled people to sit on the boards of government departments, public bodies and advisory bodies. All of these have hard and soft power to affect lives across the nation. We will not get the solutions to the problems your Lordships are exploring today unless we empower more of those we also want to help.
I can say with genuine confidence that there has not been a lack of will. But the statistics from OCPA on disability—and, indeed, on BAME—show that while there has been some slow progress in recent years, we need to work harder. I therefore warmly welcome this review, to be led by my noble friend Lord Holmes, and I can think of no better person to lead it. I will offer some early observations.
Although there is growing evidence-based consensus across public and private sectors that diversity improves outcomes, there is a long way to go. I look back to recent years, when the Cabinet Office held events to attract more people into public appointments. Many people—I have to say, they were usually able-bodied men—told us privately that it felt like identity mattered more than merit. I want an open conversation about this because we should tackle it in the context of why it matters that we attract more disabled people into public life.
Disabled people are held to the same standard as anyone seeking a role in public life. Just as those who are not disabled will not always get a job, a disabled person may go through the process and not be appointed, but as long as the opportunity has been there and the process has definitely been fair, that can be an entirely appropriate outcome. However, that does not mean that we should not be out there, looking for and encouraging the best talent in disabled communities to come and help us, and identifying the barriers to making this happen. We can hear from today’s examples that public life benefits so much from first-hand experience and knowledge of the specific issues that disabled people face. That life experience really matters.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, said, we also need to be clear that we are not looking to disabled individuals to participate simply in issues specific to disability. To be honest, in the cross-governmental meetings that I went to, I genuinely think that we became guilty of that sort of siloed thinking that can happen when you have simply got a bit stuck on what seems a difficult issue. I hope, therefore, that the review will explore ways to widen awareness of the range of roles across public life, from our museums to our regulators to our lottery distributors and beyond. This needs to recognise that there is no homogenous disabled strand of society, just as there is no homogenous group called “women”. Both the public and private sectors have rightly invested huge amounts of time and energy in thinking about the multifaceted reasons why women have not always had equality of opportunity. We need to invest the same time and energy in listening actively and responding to disabled communities, because the steps that we have taken so far in outreach and unconscious bias training—which, to be fair, were not aimed simply at increasing numbers of women—have not sufficiently brought other groups through the pipeline. There is a breadth and depth of experience of dealing with modern employment and society among disabled people that we fail to tap into at our cost.
We can be optimistic. Disabled people are already leading agendas in public life—we need only to look around this House. Without minimising the barriers faced by disabled people in terms of prejudice and perception gaps, there is also evidence that, culturally, we as a society increasingly understand that different does not mean unable. My children are growing up watching people with different disabilities read the bedtime story on CBeebies, and they cheered on Lost Voice Guy winning “Britain’s Got Talent”, commenting not that he is disabled but that he comes from Newcastle, like their mum. I think my girls would be absolutely amazed to know that we have had to commission this review. Let us make sure that ours is the last generation that has to do so.
I have absolutely no doubt that my noble friend the Minister will encourage all Front-Bench colleagues and advisory teams to engage fully with the review led by my noble friend Lord Holmes. I should like to see another push, led from the top, for truly diverse shortlists and appointment panels that go beyond the gender debate. I look forward to insightful and action-focused results.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, for her important debate, which I am pleased to take part in. I also warmly congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London on her inspiring maiden speech.
I shall talk about the challenges that deaf children face in education. There are more than 50,000 deaf children in the UK, but it is what is sometimes called a low-incidence disability, meaning that many parents and teachers will come across a deaf child only occasionally. Indeed, more than 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents who have no prior experience of deafness. Around 80% of deaf children attend mainstream schools, where they may be the only deaf child enrolled. It is because deafness is a low-incidence disability that local authority specialist education services for deaf children play such an important role. These services employ teams of teachers of the deaf who can work flexibly and go where the need is. In particular, they can ensure that families and teachers have the specialist advice and support they need so that deaf children can develop good language and communication skills.
The National Deaf Children’s Society has raised with me a number of concerns about the future of these services. First, there is concern about the impact that funding cuts are having. Its analysis has found that over a third of local authorities are planning to cut funding for specialist education services for deaf children. These cuts amount to £4 million in these areas. It has told me of its frustration that the Government continue to maintain that funding is at a record high. This may be so, but it does not allow for funding pressures on local authorities also being at a record high. For example, we are seeing a growing number of children with special educational needs and disabilities, many of whom need a placement at a special school. I hope the Minister will take away the message that there is a need to do more to ensure that funding is adequate, both now and in light of the Government’s spending review next year.
Secondly, there is concern about the sharp decline in the number of teachers of the deaf. Research shows a 14% decline over the past seven years. Many services report that they cannot recruit new teachers of the deaf. It seems clear that there are systemic challenges around how teachers of the deaf are trained and recruited. I would be grateful if the Minister could let me know of any plans to address this. Will the Government consider introducing a bursary scheme, for example, to fund the training costs of new teachers of the deaf?
On a related note, I understand that the Department for Education has commissioned a review into teachers of the deaf qualifications. I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm that this review will look at the totality of the work of teachers of the deaf, including with families in the early years. I would also be grateful if she could confirm that families will have an opportunity to feed their views into this review.
Thirdly, there is a concern about how local authorities are held to account for the quality of these specialist education services. It seems unfair to many that parents of deaf children receive so little information about the quality of the support their child receives. Ofsted inspections of local area provision for children with special educational needs, introduced in 2016, have started to address this. However, the National Deaf Children’s Society advised that these inspections do not look at services for deaf children, or indeed for any other group of disabled children, in any great detail. Will the Minister agree to look at ways of addressing all these things, perhaps by introducing new ad hoc inspections that look at different services for disabled children?
I conclude by saying again that specialist education services for deaf children play a vital role. A failure to protect these services will put the future of deaf children at risk. I very much hope the Minister will respond positively and constructively to the concerns I have raised.
Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)
My Lords, it is an honour and a privilege to take part in a debate led by the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas. I welcome the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London, who spoke eloquently about the challenges and progress of disabled people in our country. I look forward to hearing her and working with her more closely. There are two very good farms in Tower Hamlets that maybe we can visit together so as to reassure her that there is green space among us. Today I will make some observations as a mother, as well as a professional in the field, although there is a temptation to address so many outstanding issues that befall carers of people with disabilities.
In whichever manner we look at enabling the voices of vulnerable adults and young people, we cannot underestimate the serious lack of progress, especially for those who are beholden to our institutions for day-to-day services and care. I feel strongly that many in their thousands, even as we speak, remain unsafe at the hands of those who care for them. This is the last bastion of secrecy regarding sexual and physical abuse yet to be addressed, although I accept that we have been privy, through social media, to secret recordings of abuse of vulnerable adults taking place in a number of our institutions. As the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, said, the conspiracy of silence is deafening.
I say this with a great deal of pain. Two decades have passed since I withdrew my son from education just after he was 16 years of age. There were years of toing and froing between different education institutions and the NewVIc sixth form. He had come home crying on numerous occasions, but one day he was utterly distressed and absolutely refused to board the bus to that place where he adamantly felt unsafe. He had returned home with soiled pants on many occasion. I never received any explanation. I was told that they knew best, that I was expecting too much, and so on.
That day I asked my son for the umpteenth time for an explanation. He said that John, his aide, had hurt him in the toilet. I shall refrain from discussing or detailing any further distressing information he then disclosed to me. I took him to the vice-principal the following day and asked for an explanation. Although she “felt” my anxiety, she found it implausible that my son could possibly be speaking the truth. I knew her well. Although she was highly educated, and had knowledge of the law and of her obligation and duty to protect, in fact she was arrogant and all but ignorant of basic human values and decency. More importantly, even my son as a disabled person had rights. She could not comprehend that a paedophile could have filtered through to her staff team working in disguise as a carer with vulnerable young adults. She did not accept that abuse of a person with a disability in her charge was possible.
Of course, I am referring to a time, not in the distant past, when such things were denied, and it was not accepted or acceptable to speak of unspeakable abuse of trust or of sexual or physical abuse of people within our institutions. This was a fact. So my “suspicion”, despite that fact that I was a local authority social worker, could be dismissed as a preposterous notion coming from an overbearingly anxious mother. Noble Lords are all too familiar with me being overbearing on some required occasions. They will also agree that, when facing such serious detriment to one’s child’s well-being, a little leniency for anxiety should be accounted for. What irks me and haunts me to this day, two decades later, is the simplicity with which my concerns—indeed, allegations—were summarily dismissed. The teacher in that powerful place had not for one nanosecond considered the possibility that my son with learning disabilities could have been assaulted and that he was speaking the truth. She refused to accept any responsibility for ascertaining the facts or investigating the matter. I withdrew my son from there and all other educational institutions and no one since has bothered about his or our well-being.
Maybe we will say that we are in a better place these days, that tolerating abuse would not be allowed today and that we have begun to acknowledge that there are predators who deliberately seek out opportunities to work in our institutions which allow access to vulnerable people, particularly those whose communication skills mean that they may not be able to explain abuse in a normal way. Indeed, we might have examples of many institutional failures.
I have confidence that such allegations these days would not go unattended and that a full investigation is now mandatory. In fact, it may have been then—laws to protect have always been in place. Fair and just implementation has always depended on the proverbial gatekeepers and on individual leadership to produce good practice. I have worked in the same borough since, and spent time as a team leader in social services in teams where services to disabled people were taken very seriously.
What may not have changed is the experience of vulnerable adults and young people and children with predatory sexual and physical abuse, particularly those with learning disabilities and communication disabilities, whether they are in nursery or are adults. The overall assessment of where we are in the UK on disability rights and policies is more satisfactory than when I sought help for my child in the early 1980s, and his needs were dumped in the bin of prejudice and sheer incompetence. Such instances potentially cost us much more than welfare benefits and healthcare provision.
I want to make just one point: I am not alone, and organisations like Include Me TOO say that many of their members of ethnic minority backgrounds have suffered significant unacceptable levels of discrepancies in their services. Many believe, rightly or wrongly, that diagnosis, assessment, education and support services remain accessible only for those whose parents are already well resourced educationally, financially and in their status.
Lord Addington (LD)
I congratulate my noble friend on raising this topic. It has been a long time since we had a debate that looked at disability in the round. I also congratulate the House because we have not turned it into a competition of suffering between various forms of disability, saying, “Oh, my problems are so much worse”, or complaining about, “The intensity here, the numbers there”, and so on. That can happen, and we have all been pulled into it on various occasions.
One thing that comes out is that we have travelled a long way, but we have done it in a very messy way. What we do in Parliament is have a nice, big, sexy debate about legislation, then we put down the regulation, the politicians forget about the regulation and it is done badly. What tends to happen is that you have gaps between intention and implementation. Then we get dragged back to it when something goes wrong.
What this often leads to is that we have a right that is not fulfilled because people are not trained or are not informed about the possibilities, and then we have a degree of conflict and missed opportunity. I suggest that, in the case of disability, we have a way out, which is becoming apparent and will, if we choose it, deal with some of these problems. It is in the form of assistive technology. It is now time for me to declare my interests. I am dyslexic, I am president of the British Dyslexia Association and I am chairman of Microlink, which is probably the biggest company in Europe dealing with assistive technology and puts packages together to help people.
What I have found in my use of technology is that, 20 years after I first talked to a computer and it produced a text, people are still surprised by it. I am further appalled that the people installing the standard operating systems on all the computers we are given in this House do not know that quite an impressive set of assistive technology is built into them. I know because I have just had this conversation with them. They are not alone. I have further discovered that the House of Commons DWP Committee has just had a nice big report come out looking into exactly the same thing and stating exactly the same thing. We are not using what is there because half the people do not know it is available.
The waste of human potential and everything that goes on incumbent in that is ridiculous. People do not know that, with a little training, you have a little button or app that you can tap into on a computer that will do things such as read text back to you, allow voice input, allow coloured screens and allow good screen readers. Indeed, some people actually challenged the technology that those who are partially sighted use, or so I was told today when talking to an expert in the field. I am afraid that one goes to the Mac, but let us not mess about with it.
You have these things that people do not understand. The main skills required in modern jobs are often those where you have to communicate through a computer and do your job through it. Ways for other groups to get into and at that information and transport it through are available. What are the Government doing to make sure that everybody knows it is there? What are they doing in education that might suggest that the best way to communicate a text in answer will not always be with a pen and paper?
It is one of the absurdities of our world that when senior civil servants have to take exams they have to be taught how to write with a pen and paper again to take the exam. What becomes normal in, and beneficial to, the whole of society would become beneficial to large numbers of the disabled community. It is taking that cultural step of what is readily and easily available and making it work and go through.
My work with Microlink has taught me one other thing: when it comes to supporting people with disabilities in the workplace, the first thing not to do is make a line manager in any organisation who has a budget for something else allocate some of that for disability. That is according to all our biggest clients, including Lloyds and Barclays. You put it in a central place, take it out and get the support. That way, the person gets the help they need. In commercial activity, this cuts down on job vacancies and people leaving. Unless the Government can take this example and make easily available what is readily available, they will not get the benefit out of this.
I hope we will look at this in the round. If we do not, we will waste huge amounts of resources when we have the resource readily available.
Lord Luce (CB)
My Lords, it has been a most humbling experience to take part in this debate and listen to the very moving contributions that have been made. It was very ably led by the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, and had an inspiring maiden speech by the right reverent Prelate the Bishop of London.
I will concentrate on what the Government are doing to help the millions of people with long-term health conditions to stay in work or to get back to work if they have been put out of their job. I have particularly in mind people suffering from musculoskeletal pain, chronic pain and the overlapping mental health problems, simply because I have experienced it for more than 45 years myself.
For the past 10 years, I have worked with the Chronic Pain Policy Coalition, focusing on the more than 8 million who suffer from chronic pain and back problems. Very many need multidisciplinary support. If we look back seven years to 2011, after 50 years’ experience of the sickness absence system, a fresh proposal came forward under the leadership of Dame Carol Black, with a report entitled, Working for a Healthier Tomorrow and a second report, Health at Work—an Independent Review of Sickness Absence. There were clear proposals on how to make it easier for people to stay in their jobs, including, first, the establishment of a health and work advisory assessment unit and a fit for work service, emphasising the capacity of the patient to return to work and not their incapacity; and, secondly, to include an occupational health work-focused assessment for employees off sick, or likely to be off sick, for more than four weeks.
On top of that there was a proposal for an advice service for employees, employers and GPs on this subject. The benefit for everybody if it succeeds would be employees with a better quality of life and retaining their jobs, employers with a more productive workforce, and, for the Government, there would be overall economic benefits. Indeed, looking back to 2000, when the last figures were available, chronic pain cost the economy well over £10 billion.
The Government have made progress and there is a higher proportion of disabled people in work now than four years ago. I welcome that, but much more needs to be done. Last November the Department for Work and Pensions produced a Command Paper entitled Improving Lives: the Future of Work, Health and Disability. Having read that, I conclude that the Government sense that the fit for work service experiment, as conceived by Dame Carol Black, has failed—or, at the very least, stumbled badly. The Government seem to be proposing in that paper that there should be a fresh approach to this challenge, not least in strengthening the occupational health service—at the moment, there are very few people in that profession—and helping employers and employees in different ways to improve the service.
The Government have set the challenge that we must be in a position by 2019-20 to set out a clear direction and strategy for future reform. To their credit they have set up an expert working group on occupational health to champion, shape and drive the work, plus an interministerial group to co-ordinate. I should emphasise that most employers, especially small businesses, cannot afford to employ occupational health people, and it is these small businesses that are most vulnerable and need most support for their employees. There are some good examples of employers who have a very good occupational health service, helping their employees and co-ordinating with the health service. So I look forward to hearing from the Minister her and her Government’s assessment of the former fit for work scheme and how the Government have decided to learn the lessons of the last four years to remove the obstacles to the success of the scheme and to make it work properly, to the benefit of all concerned.
Lord Borwick (Con)
My Lords, first, I declare an interest in this debate, as the father of a son with learning disabilities and a trustee of a charity helping deaf children to learn in mainstream schools. I, too, pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, for securing this debate and for her tireless work in this area. The prize named in her honour, sponsored by Bespoke Hotels, has done much to encourage designers and architects to take into account those with disabilities when they travel. I also pay tribute to the wonderful maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London.
Disabled people face an enormous number of challenges, but each of those challenges is there only because a disabled person is trying to achieve something. If a disabled person faces the challenge of driving a car, they do so only because they want to drive a car. That is different from the barriers faced, say, 20 years ago. Then, they would have been told that driving was not something for them. So, as barriers to ambition have fallen, challenges have appeared. That must be celebrated. The more that disabled people achieve, the more that challenges become apparent. Changing the mindset to deal with obstacles and challenges is important.
Lee Ridley, better known as the Lost Voice Guy, recently won “Britain’s Got Talent”, the ITV prime-time reality show. He has cerebral palsy—but of course, that did not matter: he had the audience laughing in the aisles and the viewers at home dialling in to vote for him in their millions. What the Lost Voice Guy proved is that overcoming the challenge is the most important thing. His disability actually played to his advantage; it defined his act, allowing his comedy to shine through. There are many people who regard themselves as defined by their disability and believe that their barrier is the most important thing in their lives. I think we have to see the glass as half full.
The technology of cochlear implants, for example, has improved drastically in the last 20 years, and, as with most new technology as it develops, the price has come down drastically. Improvements in technology are something that we should be encouraging and celebrating, especially in the fields of language and communication. There are many people who are physically disabled, but I might say that I am impaired in the very many different languages that I cannot speak—such as Gujarati, to choose one at random. But there are now apps that translate entire paragraphs of foreign languages just by hovering the camera over the page.
Traditionalists may balk at this—surely a cultured person will take the time to learn a language. However, these apps and technologies increase, not reduce, communication. The crucial thing is that technology takes away my fear. The fear of a mistake is inhibitive and intimidating. By simply using technology, I am no longer afraid to make a mistake in talking to locals. New technology will deal with my problem in Gujarat, which is my inability to communicate in Gujarati. Similarly, technology must help people with physical disabilities.
I have so far spoken about positivity and technology. The tech entrepreneurs are the sum of those two parts. They are some of the most positive people in overcoming the challenges faced by disabled people. Seemingly, more brainpower than ever is expended on helping disabled people live better lives. In times gone by, the approach was almost functional—a person could not walk, so build them a wheelchair. That is a good thing in and of itself, but today’s problem solvers dream bigger. These days, it is actually cool to solve these problems. Technology is changing the lives of disabled people forever and for the better.
There are more reasons to be cheerful. I have a friend who was born with no arms and no legs, but he has a driving licence. He might have a claim to be the most disabled person with a driving licence, but is it not wonderful that he has one? While he is competent in controlling his vehicle, there must be many others with a worse condition who cannot drive. My friend has freedom. He is able to live on the spur of the moment. He is less dependent on others and less dependent on the state. His independence and freedom mean that he has milk in his coffee if he has run out and needs to go to the shops—everything that people without a disability take for granted.
When automated vehicles are on the road, almost all will be able to share the joy my friend has in his freedom. We should be positive about seeing the benefits of that type of technology. We are often too negative and let the problems of the past make us gloomy about the future. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, has a prize in her name which asks people to be innovative and positive, and to overcome challenges. We should adopt that mindset as we seek to make the lives of disabled people a whole lot better.
Baroness Jolly (LD)
My Lords, I join noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lady Thomas of Winchester for initiating this excellent debate. I think it is the first that I can remember in getting on for seven years in which we have discussed such a wide range of disabilities. As often happens in this place, a huge range of experience and expertise has been demonstrated, which brings me to my second point: to join noble Lords in welcoming the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. I am delighted that she brings with her expertise on the south-west as well as on health. She will enrich our debates.
When we think of a disability, invariably it is physical and often visible. For those with a learning disability, it is not always physical and not always visible. When considering the challenges those with disabilities face in the UK, we need to remember that it is about making that person’s life the best it can be: how they can experience a meaningful life, ensuring their safety, well-being and interests are met.
Many organisations work in a person-centred way and some do not. I declare my interest in the register as chair of Hft, a charity supporting those with learning disabilities through independent housing and support services across England. I will talk about learning disability and the challenges faced, and about what two young people with learning disabilities did about them.
Person-centred models exhibit the right and freedom of choice, while always keeping in mind a person’s health and safety. People with learning disabilities enjoy engaging in hobbies and interests, just as we do, but sometimes extra support or care are needed to take part in these activities. Charitable organisations such as my own ensure that those with learning disabilities can do the things they love the most while also having fun in a safe and independent environment. Socialising is part of most of our daily routines but for those who live in a sheltered environment, meeting and chatting to friends can be challenging and opportunities infrequent. That is precisely why Luv2meetU and Hum Tum were created at Hft. Luv2meetU, a friendship and dating service, brings together people with learning disabilities at Hft-run events: games, sports, nightlife events and more. Hum Tum allows adults with learning disabilities of south Asian heritage to bond on social, cultural and religious levels. The funding we raise as a charity goes towards running those sorts of events.
The noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, spoke about disability on TV. I was delighted recently that “Silent Witness” had a storyline about a young couple with learning disabilities who were in love. It does happen. The point is for people to connect, laugh, share stories and feel that spark with someone special. We take these things for granted. Those with learning disabilities should not feel alone—don’t we all need that friend who understands?
We have considered the challenges facing those with learning disabilities but it is also critical to consult trusted friends and families. At Hft half the trustees are family members of those supported by the charity. At our council, the human elements are never forgotten. Family members can articulate to other trustees and executives issues that those without that experience could not understand in the same way. This offers invaluable insight. It would not be right or fair for charities to make critical decisions about those they care for without the consultation of the very people whom they support. The voices of those with learning disabilities must be heard, especially when it comes to preferences in care.
That is why our staff and people with learning disabilities are partnered up at local, regional and divisional level. Each house and region has a group where concerns and questions are posed and deliberated. These councils are to ensure consistency of communication and that shared knowledge and experience lead to better understanding. We call the meetings Voices to be Heard. It is worth mentioning that a frequent topic of concern is “mate/hate crime”, where somebody befriends you and hate comes out of it. The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, demonstrated that admirably today.
Two people with learning disabilities in our care travelled to Geneva to share their personal experiences of the effects of austerity with a United Nations hearing. The noble Lord, Lord Low, mentioned this earlier. They are two members of our national Voices to be Heard council. They attended the 18th session of the United Nations Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The hearing invited disabled people to share their personal experiences to help inform the committee’s investigation into how the UK Government’s austerity policies have impacted on people with disabilities. Hft’s evidence fell under Article 19, the right to inclusion and participation in the community. Each addressed the 18 members of the committee, warning that increased pressures on care funding are impacting on the opportunity for people with disabilities to live the life they choose. We believe that this violates the rights enshrined in Article 19 of the CPRD:
“Living independently and being included in the community”.
Since February last year, through its It Doesn’t Add Up campaign, Hft has been aiming to raise awareness of the funding pressures faced by social care providers following the introduction of the national living wage in April 2016. This has not always been reflected in money given by the Government to local authorities to fund care packages. Data from the campaign was used to respond to calls for information from the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights on service provision for persons with disabilities. This was a great opportunity for Henry and Becky to have their voices heard at the highest level and to play a key role in driving positive change against the austerity measures disproportionately affecting people with learning disabilities. They argued that inadequate funding of the social care sector was prohibiting providers properly supporting adults to live independently.
Reductions in benefits are preventing people living as full a life as before, and benefits are now more about enabling people to survive rather than thrive—their expression, not mine. They expressed concerns about provision of Easyread resources in several settings, particularly in health and at elections. Do the Government have a view about where Easyread communications should, and could, be available? It is worth noting that last year, an awful lot of people with learning disabilities, carrying a polling card, were turned away from their polling station by the officer in charge, who told them, “People like you can’t vote”. We visited our MPs. It happened, and we are going to try to sort something out for the next election. However, that was really shameful.
The chair of the committee called the UK Government’s policies a “human catastrophe” for disabled people. It issued recommendations under all chapters of the CRPD. Regarding Article 19, it argued for adequate and earmarked ring-fencing of moneys so that local authorities are properly able to execute their responsibilities in enabling disabled people to exercise choice and independence. Our Government responded by saying that the UK maintains that it is a world leader in disability rights. The response will be published in the summer.
The sector feels that conversations about funding for social care are always about older people, not those with disabilities, despite the fact that within a few years the funding required for people with disabilities will outstrip that for elder care. Can the Minister feed back the frustration of the learning disability sector that, when discussing disabilities, the Government invariably refer to those with a physical disability and rarely to those with a learning one?
I commend to the Minister, if she has not already seen it, the British film “The Silent Child”, which won an Oscar this year. It is all about the power of sign language. The makers of that film went to see the Department for Education and they were promised a GCSE in sign language.
Those with disabilities share many of our own desires: a voice wanting to be heard, preference in the way our daily lives work, a friend or companion to call or hold. The challenge is enabling the quality and opportunity of those practices. Whatever the disability—whether it is hearing loss or lack of sight, mobility problems or a learning disability—it is all about making a life safe and worth living. We should all agree that that is something which brings value and happiness to everyone.
Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab)
My Lords, let me begin by offering my congratulations to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London on a wonderful maiden speech. That passion for the NHS will sit well with us all in this House. Perhaps I may also say that if she is tempted to exercise the calm authority of matron in this Chamber from time to time, that may not go amiss—but of course, not on these Benches.
This has been a worthy debate and I join with others in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, for its initiation. As the debate has highlighted, and the briefings we have received confirm, the challenges facing disabled people today are many and considerable. We have heard a very full range of contributions, so I hope noble Lords will forgive me if I do not touch on all of them.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, spoke about the extra costs for independent living that disabled people face, and about DFGs and the aspiration to have 1 million more people in work—it was a very full contribution. The noble Lord, Lord Holmes, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wyld, spoke about the importance of disabled people and public appointments. I wish the noble Lord success in his review. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, talked about the challenges for deaf people and the need for cohesion and specialist education. The noble Lord, Lord Patel, spoke about palliative care for children and the unfair funding of children’s hospices. The noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, spoke about the generosity of the taxpayer. It depends quite where you stand on that as to who gets the benefit and who takes the hit. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, spoke about the Equality Act and short-term care support; the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, about the blue badge scheme; the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, about the Global Disability Summit; the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, about accessibility in public places; and the noble Lord, Lord Low, about challenges that I will come on to and strike common cause with him on in a moment. The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, spoke about changes to address the position of vulnerable individuals and sexual predators; the noble Lord, Lord Addington, about dyslexia and using assistive technology more effectively; and the noble Lord, Lord Luce, about the proposals from Dame Carol Black—proposals I worked with her on a long time ago, when I was in a different role. I do not think we have ever cracked it, because I do not think that occupational health has ever been part of the National Health Service. With the benefit of hindsight, I think that we might have done something different there.
Independent evidence of the challenges facing disabled people can be found in an examination of the UK’s report to the UN’s Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities—to which the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, referred—following an investigation under the optional protocol. The committee expressed concerns about extensive evidence which shows that disabled people in the UK face significant challenges to enjoying their rights across all areas of life, including inaccessible housing, transport and information; barriers to achieving justice; inappropriate long-term placements for people with learning disabilities or autism, and the lack of provision for supported decision-making. The briefing from Scope refers to the challenges of accessing social care and employment, and the briefing from Sense refers to the longer-term planning and funding needed for the 1.7 million disabled people supported by their friends and families and the fear of what will happen when family carers are not able to provide that support on an ongoing basis.
Concerns have been raised in particular over three areas of rights for disabled people: an adequate standard of living and social protection, work and employment, and independent living. In my limited time, I want to say something on the first two. As for standards of living, as the noble Lord, Lord Low, mentioned, we now have the benefit of a cumulative impact assessment of tax and benefit changes between 2010 and 2018 commissioned by the EHRC. The conclusion that households with one or more disabled members will face large and disproportionately negative impacts from the changes is to be deprecated, and let us not forget that for most of this period we had a coalition Government who were complicit in these matters. Households with at least one disabled adult and a disabled child could face annual cash losses of more than £6,500.
These changes result mainly from the changes to the benefit system, including the freezing of working-age benefits, changes to disability benefits and reductions in universal credit rates. Concerns should focus not only on the structure of the key benefits—PIP, ESA and universal credit—but on how they are administered. The abolition of working-age DLA and its replacement by PIP was announced without any prior consultation and with the express aim of cutting expenditure by 20%, a deliberate hit on disabled people. We know that the implementation of PIP has been little short of a disaster, with the Government just having had to announce a fifth review of benefits for disabled people to identify those entitled to back payments.
Disability Rights UK, which has been pursuing statistics on the DLA-to-PIP move, reports that half of DLA claimants who were in receipt of the higher mobility rate were refused it on moving to PIP, with many losing their right to join the Motability scheme. The introduction of the 20-metre rule has been particularly damaging. Both PIP and ESA have been bedevilled with poor administration from application to assessment to decision-making and to challenge. Surely it is time to bring it all in-house and not to renew contracts, on a short-term basis or otherwise.
New claimants of ESA have lost entitlement to a work-related activity component. The application of sanctions continues to be problematic and the bedroom tax continues to bite—more than two-thirds of households subject to the tax include a disabled family member. Statistics in the NAO report on universal credit, published recently, reveal that while 20% of initial payments for universal credit claims overall are not made in full and on time, two-thirds of claims involving a limited capability for work element are not. The report also said that overloaded DWP staff are finding it difficult to identify vulnerable claimants, such as those with a mental health condition, for instance, and that the case load for work coaches is set to increase fourfold, and that of managers by sixfold.
If the benefit system is failing disabled people, how are they being helped into employment? The Conservative pledge to halve the disability employment gap has been watered down to getting 1 million more disabled people into work. Perhaps the Minister can tell us how all this is going. Recent figures show that the disability employment gap remains stubbornly at about 30%.
The Work and Pensions Select Committee has pinpointed that funding for specialist employment support for disabled people will fall from about £1 billion under Work Choice and the Work Programme to about half of this over the lifetime of the Work and Health Programme. It seems that the majority of employment support for disabled people will be by general rather than specialist support in the future.
We believe in a social model of disability—a society which strives to remove the barriers that restrict opportunities and choices for disabled people. There is much to do if we are to make progress, given the austerity years. One of the most depressing pieces of information provided in our briefings came from Scope and its new research report, The Disability Perception Gap. It found that negative attitudes and prejudice remain a major problem for disabled people, the data having hardly shifted since 2009. If we could put the same effort into addressing this as we do and have done on Brexit, we might at least make progress in tackling prejudice and discrimination.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Buscombe) (Con)
My Lords, let me begin by joining all other noble Lords in congratulating the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London on her inspirational maiden speech. We look forward to many more contributions from her in the future.
This has been an excellent, thoughtful and—I feel in so many ways—a positive debate. I thank, in particular, the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, very much for this opportunity for all of us to share information, and indeed to discuss, as she said right at the beginning, a debate that is widely drawn. I want to make it clear straightaway that I shall share this debate with our Minister of State for Disabled People because so many different issues have been raised, and I apologise in advance if I cannot address everyone on the Floor of the House this evening. I make it clear, too, that in those areas that are the responsibility of the Minister for Health or the Minister for the Department for Education, I will make sure that the concerns are passed on.
The Government are fully committed to making sure that disabled people can overcome the barriers they face in their day-to-day lives. With 13.9 million people in the UK—that is 22% of our population—reporting a disability, it is very clear we must do everything we can to break down the barriers so that disabled people can be empowered and achieve their aspirations. There are more than a few disabled role models in this House—both past and present—who have overcome those barriers to achieve great things in their careers. Indeed, as the noble Baroness, Lady Masham shows—I think she has been here even longer than me—it can be done. But this will not happen overnight; there will be no mythical day or year when disabled people will wake up and everything will be accessible and inclusive.
With reference to my noble friend Lady Wyld, we are making real progress and I feel strongly—I am an optimist, of course—that this is generational. Her children will wonder why there is a review. My children, who are older than hers, will feel that too. With an ageing society, where most people acquire a disability as they grow older, this is becoming even more important. We know that currently 45% of people at state pension age have a disability. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, that we are not separating the young from the old but we need to recognise that different people have different needs and we need to be as bespoke as possible.
Although we have made good progress, we are not complacent and know we all need to do more. This is not just about my department but about every department making sure that their policies and services are accessible and inclusive. Nor is this just about the public sector—the private and third sectors must play their parts as well to ensure that we all live in a country that is accessible and inclusive. We all know that there is no point in building accessible housing if the disabled tenants or owners cannot access the transport system. An accessible transport system does not help if disabled people cannot access their employer’s business or their school, college or university. And how do disabled people spend their money if they cannot access shops, leisure facilities or online services?
Numerous noble Lords raised very good points on a number of issues during this debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, for raising the important issue of personal independence payment assessments and appeals in this House on 19 June in an Oral Question. I agree with her. We need to be more holistic in our approach, which is why I must commend the hard work that my colleague in another place, Sarah Newton MP, the Minister of State for Disabled People, has been doing to ensure that disabled people can meet their aspirations. I have to tell noble Lords that I have never seen a Minister work so hard.
As my honourable friend announced in May, she is setting up an inter-ministerial group which will drive forward co-ordinated action across government. It will be chaired by the Secretary of State and will focus this Government’s approach to breaking down the barriers that disabled people face. The inter-ministerial group will ensure that disabled people are at the centre of decisions that are made about their lives. We will be reinvigorating the way we work with disabled people and their representatives to inform the IMG. We are keen to ensure that more disabled people can be involved and we are exploring how we can maximise the use of technology to reach every region in England.
My noble friend Lady Wyld made the excellent point that diversity and inclusion make for better and inclusive decision-making across all protected characteristics. Since the 2012 Paralympic Games, we have seen a marked increase in disabled people on television in drama, comedy and current affairs. But it is not only visible impairments that are being discussed—Susan Calman’s “Mrs Brightside” podcast discusses depression, for example. The old attitudes that disabled people face are being eroded, albeit not as fast as we would all wish.
The next area to see an increase in participation for disabled people will be public appointments. I am pleased that my noble friend Lord Holmes will be using his vast knowledge and expertise to lead the review that will make recommendations on how to encourage more disabled people to apply for public appointments. This was a point also raised by noble friend Lady Wyld. Inclusive leadership is not just about our own country, but sharing that leadership with countries that have not achieved the level of access and inclusion we have achieved so far, a point made by my noble friend Lord Shinkwin. The Secretary of State for International Development will be hosting a global summit to galvanise the global effort to address disability inclusion in the world’s poorest countries.
A number of noble Lords asked what the Government have done to improve access for disabled people. This Government understand that to achieve real access and inclusion, departments need to work together where their interests overlap. We have set up the Work and Health Unit, a joint venture between the Department of Health and Social Care and my department. Its aim is to create a society where everyone is ambitious for disabled people in respect of work and to understand and act positively upon the important relationship between health and work, something that was touched on by a number of noble Lords and most particularly the noble Lord, Lord Luce. We published the Improving Lives Command Paper in November 2017. We have set a target of 1 million more disabled people in employment by 2027 and we really mean to meet that target.
The number of working-age disabled people in employment in the UK reached around 3.5 million in the second quarter of 2017. This was an increase of 104,000 since the second quarter of 2016 and an overall increase of nearly 600,000 since the second quarter of 2013, when the series started. I say to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, that I disagree entirely; we are not failing the disabled community. We are working to support disabled people to stay in work as well as supporting them into employment. We are prioritising interventions on mental health and musculo- skeletal conditions.
So many points were raised around the whole issue of learning disabilities, most notably by the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, who spoke with real authority on the subject. We are encouraged by the early evidence of the impact of the implementation of our SEN reforms, improving the lives of children and young people with learning disabilities. But we are not complacent—far from it. There is much more to do and we are committed to seeing this through. As the SEN reforms continue, we are confident that they will make a significant difference to the life chances of children and young people with special educational needs. The noble Baroness referred to Easyread documents. Where appropriate, we provide these, but I will take back her concerns on the extent to which such documents are available.
The noble Baroness also referred to hate crime, as did my noble friend Lady Eaton in her passionate speech, which presented a different angle but one of equal importance with regard to this issue. I will certainly ensure that we look at what the Ruderman Family Foundation is doing to help people from different communities who also happen to have a disability, if I may put it that way. It is a double challenge that we need to confront. In terms of hate crime itself, we launched an action plan in July 2016 with five different criteria. Those criteria are Home Office-led and I understand that they will be refreshed with the hate crime action plan in 2018. We will work closely with our wide network of stakeholders to make sure that the action plan remains fit for purpose, is cross-governmental and absolutely respects those issues raised by noble Lords today.
I also listened with care to what the noble Lord, Lord Patel, had to say about the tough issue of care of children with life-threatening illnesses in hospices. I assure him that I will pass his questions and concerns to my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, Minister for Health. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, also raised these issues. I am sure my noble friend will want to respond in writing, as will my noble friend the Minister for Education, on some of the issues raised by other noble Lords.
With reference to the speech by the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, I have enormous sympathy—which I am sure all noble Lords will share—for her son and the appalling experience he endured. I am glad that, since that time 20 years ago, we have introduced—as the noble Baroness will well know—strong safeguarding measures across the public, private and third sectors. But of course, there is always more that we can do.
I turn now to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Luce, about progress on the evaluation that my department commissioned on the Fit for Work service. On 21 June, we published a report online presenting findings from the evaluation. We remain committed to that and will use our learning from Fit for Work to inform our thinking. We are also working closely with the new occupational health expert group established this year. This group is chaired by Professor Gina Radford and consists of clinicians, employers groups, academics and representatives of charities. My officials would be pleased to discuss this work further with the noble Lord.
One might ask what the point of having a job is if you cannot get to work. The Department for Transport consulted on a draft accessibility action plan last year and will publish an inclusive transport strategy later this year. It will set out our key policy and investment priorities for improving disabled people’s access to transport. This document will also confirm our timeframes and proposals for monitoring delivery.
Since 2006, around 200 railway stations have been made step-free, and 75% of rail journeys are now through step-free stations. This compares to only 50% in 2005. I am looking to the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford; I hope she and her husband will accept that this is progress. It is not perfect, but it is progress. Where toilets are provided on a train, an accessible toilet that meets the requirements of modern accessibility standards needs to be provided by 31 December 2019.
The noble Baroness, Lady Masham, referred to the blue badge. We consulted on introducing new blue badge eligibility criteria for people with hidden disabilities. The Department for Transport is currently considering the responses.
Before we can get to work, we need to be able to get out of our home and move into the built environment, a subject covered by a number of noble Lords. The Government’s National Planning Policy Framework, which is currently being revised, defines “inclusive design” as:
“Designing the built environment, including buildings and their surrounding spaces, to ensure that they can be accessed and used by everyone”.
However, the Government understand the concerns visually impaired people have about navigating around shared spaces. The Chartered Institution of Highways and Transportation’s review of shared space was published in January this year, and we are considering its recommendations.
We launched the Built Environment Professional Education Project in 2013, which was inspired by the 2012 Paralympic Games—the most accessible Games ever. The aim of the project is to make inclusive design an important part of the education and training of built environment professionals. To ensure a smooth transition from a Government-driven project to an industry-owned and led project, in 2016-17 the Construction Industry Council assumed responsibility for the project, but this Government are not just about new initiatives; they are also about improving what is already being done. An example of this is disabled students’ allowances, where we have commissioned an evaluation to seek disabled students’ views on support received from DSAs, as well as views from the higher education providers. This evaluation will report later this summer.
We are committed to ensuring that our welfare system is a strong safety net for those who need it. That is why we are spending £54 billion this year, noted by my noble friend Lord Shinkwin, on supporting disabled people and those with health conditions. That is a real-terms increase of £10 billion since 2009-10. This is around 2.5% of GDP and over 6% of all Government spending—up more than £7 billion in real terms since 2010.
We have also increased the amount of help an individual may receive from Access to Work. This is important in relation to some of the concerns raised by noble Lords. It depends on their individual needs and personal circumstances, but an individual can now have up to a maximum of £57,200 a year, which is an increase from £42,100 in April 2017. The grant is in addition to the Motability scheme and all other disability benefits. In September 2016 we launched the Access to Work digital service, so people can now apply online. In addition, we are continuing to develop our online offer and have introduced other channels to improve accessibility, for example through video relay service to assist BSL users.
I say to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, that the Government are committed to ensuring that deaf people are enabled to fulfil their potential and play a full role in society. We fully support initiatives aimed at improving understanding of the needs of deaf people, giving them more say in how they access services and how the barriers they face can be removed or overcome. Deaf people are the largest group of customers supported by the Access to Work grant and their awards in general tend to be higher than those of other groups.
Technology has moved on. There are solutions that help both deaf and deafened people. Those in the deaf community have always been early adopters of new technology, email phones and video phones, as referenced by both the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, and also my noble friend Lord Borwick. The video relay service is an easy option for service providers to communicate with their deaf customers where that is reasonable. But we must not forget that in the deafened community, the majority of people with a hearing impairment are elderly, and that for the most part they do not use sign language. They need adjustments such as lip-speakers, speech to text, or note takers.
The noble Lord, Lord Addington, and other noble Lords, referenced technological solutions, which will continue to break down barriers, not only for the deaf community but for other impairment groups as well. We know about help for the visually impaired to navigate the London Underground, such as Wayfindr, and about Microsoft Seeing AI, which can read text and tell the user what is going on and can be downloaded by anyone.
But technology is not the only way: business can break down barriers. The Government continue to work with business to increase our understanding. The Disability Confident programme is part of that. We are challenging employers’ attitudes to disability, removing the barriers and ensuring that disabled people have opportunities to realise their aspirations. We are working with employers in this way to ensure a substantial contribution towards seeing 1 million more disabled people in work. Over 70% of local authorities are Disability Confident. The Government are leading by example: all main government departments have now received Disability Confident leader status. I could list a number of well-known companies that are already very supportive. However, the Government understand that disabled people still face innumerable barriers, and yes, the Government will continue to break those barriers down and drive all the sectors to do the same.
Several noble Lords, and in particular my noble friend Lord Holmes and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London, mentioned the Paralympics, as I did a few months ago. One of my proudest moments was representing Her Majesty’s Government at the Paralympics this year in South Korea. Indeed, I gave up trying to contain myself when the mother of one of our seven gold medallists hugged me and thanked me for being there. I was privileged to be there. Sport is one of the most brilliant catalysts for overcoming barriers.
The Government understand that there will always be more to be done, always another item on the access and inclusion shopping list. The Government will continue to take responsibility, working through that list. We understand that there will always be people who do not think that access and inclusion is happening quickly enough. Indeed, in contrast, at the Department for Work and Pensions we are lucky enough to share a brilliant special adviser with No. 10, Jean-Andre. He happens to have cerebral palsy, and he is ensuring that we constantly question, so that the list of what to do and what to do better is assessed.
In conclusion, the Government will continue to work with the public, private and third sectors to keep breaking down barriers until everyone, whether disabled or non-disabled, can participate in their community and aspire to and achieve their life goals. One of the most important words used in this entire debate is “talent”. There is plenty out there, and we want to make sure that we involve everyone with talent.
Baroness Thomas of Winchester
My Lords, this has been a most interesting debate, and I thank all noble Lords for getting across so much in such a short time. I warmly congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London on her most impressive maiden speech, and I thank the Minister for her reply to the debate. I look forward to opportunities for us to continue the conversation about many of these challenges in the coming months.