Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill
Darren Jones ExcerptsWednesday 18th December 2024
(4 days, 3 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill 2024-26 View all Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill 2024-26 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 18 December 2024 - (18 Dec 2024)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Madam Chair.
We had a very constructive debate on Second Reading of the Bill. In particular, I wish to express my appreciation for the universal support that the House has shown for the provision of this vital funding. It is clearly a subject close to the hearts of many of us across the House. I look forward to further discussion on this important Bill today.
As the Committee is aware, the extraordinary revenue acceleration is an ambitious scheme designed to provide Ukraine with a total of $50 billion in additional support, to be repaid by the extraordinary profits generated on Russian sovereign assets held in the European Union. The United Kingdom’s contribution of £2.26 billion is joined by pledges from the United States, the European Union, Canada and Japan.
The Bill contains only two clauses. They are both straightforward. Clause 1 grants the Government the legal spending authority to fulfil the commitment we have made to provide Ukraine with the UK’s contribution to the extraordinary revenue acceleration. The clause empowers the Treasury or the Secretary of State to provide the Government of Ukraine with funds approved by Parliament as a result of the extraordinary revenue acceleration loans for Ukraine scheme, or
“any subsequent arrangements that are supplemental to or modify or replace those arrangements.”
Payments made under clause 1 will be those that are necessary to perform the UK’s commitment to the ERA scheme.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
In of course welcoming the Government’s measures, I note that the Minister referred to the extraordinary interest from the frozen Russian assets. Have the Government permanently set their mind against any possible actual seizure of the assets themselves, perhaps in agreement with other G7 members or EU members?
Darren Jones
I thank the right hon. Member for his contribution. As we debated on Second Reading, this is a commitment across G7 partners and with the European Union to take action on the proceeds of the assets that are held. For other complicated legal reasons, there is no intention to seize those assets at this time.
Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)
I thank the Minister for his acknowledgement of the cross-party support for this measure, but to back up my colleague, the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), the $3 billion from the UK is generous and will make a difference, but the $300 billion in frozen assets would be utterly game changing. I accept the Minister’s argument at the moment about some of the more complicated legal issues. I know that he accepts the very serious situation that the Ukrainians are facing on the front, defending all of us. May I encourage him merely to continue to look at this issue and see whether he can work with G7 colleagues to find a way of unpicking the difficulties that he has highlighted?
Darren Jones
I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s encouragement, which I take in good faith. He will know that these matters are multilateral and subject to negotiation with other allies and G7 colleagues, but he will also know, as I am sure the whole House does, that we go into 2025 with a strength of resolve across those G7 countries to do all that we can to help Ukraine continue to mount its defence against the illegal invasion from Russia.
Any other payments beyond the extraordinary revenue acceleration loans to Ukraine or any other country that are unrelated to the ERA scheme are not covered by the provisions of the Bill; this money is in addition to other grants and payments that have been referred to in the House previously.
The clause contains provision for the UK to provide funding towards subsequent arrangements that are supplemental to, modify or replace the ERA. This provision allows for flexibility in the unlikely event that the scheme itself should significantly alter. It is not intended to be used without this change in circumstances.
Clause 2 simply sets out the short title of the Bill.
Richard Fuller (North Bedfordshire) (Con)
I thank the Minister for opening the debate. The Conservative Government were a vociferous advocate for mobilising Russia’s frozen sovereign assets to support Ukraine. We drove G7 and European partners to try to coalesce around the most ambitious solution possible to achieve that outcome. The announcement on 22 October marked progress on that journey and is a step in the right direction. We understand that the Government’s position is that the United Kingdom’s contribution should be earmarked for supporting Ukraine’s military expenditure, including on air defence, artillery and other equipment. The Opposition would support that. We need to persevere with our efforts to put Ukraine in the strongest possible position to counter Russia’s unprovoked and illegal invasion.
Matters since Second Reading have been fast moving, so let me pose some questions to the Minister. Since Second Reading, the United States has given Ukraine $20 billion, funded by the profits of frozen Russian assets. That economic support forms a significant part of the overall $50 billion package agreed by G7 member nations and announced in June. The US Treasury said that it had transferred the $20 billion to a World Bank fund, where it will be available for Ukraine to draw. Money handled by the World Bank cannot be used for military purposes.
The US Administration had initially hoped to dedicate half the money to military aid, but that would have required approval from Congress, which the President did not seek. Perhaps the Minister can update the House on what discussions the UK Government have had with the US Administration, Canada and the European Union about the use of funds provided for military purposes. Are any strings attached to the funds that will be provided by the UK? As the US has already provided its share of moneys anticipated in the G7 package, can the Minister advise the House on the timing of the UK’s contribution? I think it was made clear on Second Reading, but it would be helpful to have an update, given the move by the US since then.
As the Minister and the Government have advised, the loans that the UK will pay will form part of the extraordinary revenue acceleration loan agreement by the G7. The loans that the UK will provide will be repaid by the Ukraine loan co-operation mechanism, established by the European Union under regulation 2024/2773 on 24 October. The ability of the UK to have its loans repaid depends in large part on a decision by the European Union to maintain its freeze on Russian assets. The EU renews Russian sanctions every six months, and efforts to extend that to a three-year review cycle were rebuffed by Hungary earlier this year. Will the Minister confirm that there is a risk, in the event that the EU does not extend its sanctions on Russia, that the costs of the loan will be borne by UK taxpayers, and what mitigations he might consider if that situation arises?
Finally, the EU controls more than two thirds of Russia’s $300 billion of sovereign assets that have been frozen by western allies following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Of those EU-held frozen assets, 90% are held by the Belgian-based financial services company Euroclear. The profits from the EU-held assets, estimated to be between $2.6 billion and $3.2 billion per year, have been used to arm Ukraine and finance its post-war reconstruction. We understand that the EU’s top diplomat, Kaja Kallas, said in an interview with The Guardian on 12 December that the European Union should use the billions in frozen state assets to aid Ukraine. She emphasised that Ukraine had a legitimate claim for compensation, and described the Russian assets held in the EU as
“a tool to pressure Russia.”
The Minister responded to earlier interventions, but can he confirm the UK Government’s position? Has he discussed the matter with the EU and Belgium, and does he have any plans for the UK to go further on the use of those assets?
David Taylor (Hemel Hempstead) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Phil Brickell). He has demonstrated why he will be such a valuable addition to the Foreign Affairs Committee, and I congratulate him on his election to it. I associate myself with his comments and those of other Members. We often find ourselves disagreeing over the smallest of details, so I am proud that we can all come together on an issue of such magnitude in unity with the people of Ukraine. Long may that cross-party support continue.
Earlier this year, as some Members may know, I had the privilege of visiting Ukraine. I went over with an Estonian charity, driving a couple of military pick-up trucks over from the UK as part of a much larger convoy that went into Kyiv. Those vehicles were handed over to the Ukrainian soldiers, and it brought home that there was not only support and solidarity in this country for Ukraine, but solidarity across the whole of Europe. That is why we are coming together on the measures in this Bill. Hopefully we will have an opportunity to go again, and I associate myself with the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel). We were both on a call earlier, and I know that he and other Members have also made trips to Ukraine and been part of aid convoys to help people, and long may that continue.
This Bill is another tool in the arsenal when it comes to fighting one of the world’s greatest tyrants. Ukraine’s fight against Russian tyranny is not just for Ukraine’s sovereignty, but for the freedom and security of the whole of Europe. One striking thing in making that journey is realising just how flat Europe is. I know that seems a silly point, but it brings home that there is nothing stopping Putin at the borders of Ukraine if we do not stand up against him now. The fact that another of the world’s tyrants, Assad, is now cowering in Moscow demonstrates the importance of curtailing Russia’s aggression.
I am proud that this Government and the Government before have stood foursquare behind Ukraine. As other Members have said, the Bill will land a deafening blow on Putin’s war machine and unlock a £2.26 billion contribution from the UK to the extraordinary revenue acceleration scheme, which crucially will not be paid by Ukraine or by British taxpayers. It comes from dodgy cash from profits owned by sanctioned Russian assets held in the EU.
I associate myself with the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Gregor Poynton), who listed the various ways in which the previous Government and the current Government have supported Ukraine. Long may that continue. It is so important that we continue to stand four-square behind Ukraine for as long as it takes. I urge the Committee to do all in our power to ensure that the Bill receives Royal Assent as urgently as is feasible, especially as we approach winter, when the battle conditions will become even tougher. Finally, I use this opportunity to pay tribute to the Ukrainian forces fighting on the frontline, the British troops involved in training and equipping them and all those showing resilience in the face of Putin’s illegal war.
Darren Jones
In closing, I thank right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel), for Livingston (Gregor Poynton), for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy (Melanie Ward), for Hexham (Joe Morris), for Bolton West (Phil Brickell) and for Hemel Hempstead (David Taylor) and the hon. Members for Solihull West and Shirley (Dr Shastri-Hurst) and for Arbroath and Broughty Ferry (Stephen Gethins), the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for North Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller), and the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), for being here for this important debate.
Sir Julian Lewis
Among some of the excellent contributions we heard in this debate was the remark by the hon. Member for Livingston (Gregor Poynton) that if Putin is not seen to fail in Ukraine, British troops will ultimately end up being involved in some sort of conflict directly. Will the Minister take that message back to his Treasury colleagues? Some of us feel that the arguments about whether 2.5% of GDP should be spent now or in a couple of years’ time rather miss the point, because if we get to the stage where British forces are engaged, we will be spending far more than that. As a Treasury Minister, he should realise that investment in defence in peacetime can deter a much more expensive conflict.
Darren Jones
The Government’s position, as the right hon. Gentleman will know, is that we will set out the trajectory to 2.5% of GDP on NATO qualifying spend in 2025, following the conclusion of the strategic defence review and the spending review. He will also know that we fund our armed forces not just to be prepared, but to be ready to contribute. But clearly, I cannot comment on hypothetical scenarios in 2025. He was right to allude to contributions in the debate that rightly highlighted the Ukrainian armed forces on the battlefield fighting not just for their own country but for the security of Europe and the United Kingdom. I think we are all clear-eyed about that and, therefore, our responsibility to help them. That is why the Bill is one part of the package of support that we are putting in place and will continue to put in place over 2025.
I think I have answered most of the points substantively, and so I conclude my remarks.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair.
Bill reported, without amendment.
Bill, not amended in the Committee, considered.
Third Reading
Darren Jones
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Once again, I extend my gratitude to Members from across the House for contributing to today’s debate and facilitating the swift passage of the Bill. Today, and throughout the Bill’s passage so far, this House has made clear its strong feelings on the plight of the Ukrainian people. Members of all political stripes have spoken eloquently in favour of continued support for Ukraine in its ongoing fight against Russia’s tyrannical, unprovoked and illegal aggression. Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, no matter which party has been in office, the UK Government have remained committed to fully supporting Ukraine for as long as it takes.
The G7 extraordinary revenue acceleration scheme and this Bill, which facilitates the UK’s contribution, are another demonstration of the UK delivering on that promise. Beyond the ERA, the UK has now committed £12.8 billion in military, humanitarian and economic support to Ukraine. Earlier this year, the Government announced that we will continue to provide guaranteed military support of £3 billion per year to Ukraine for as long as it takes, and our ERA commitment goes further still. As hon. Members will know, the Bill unlocks the UK’s contribution of £2.26 billion, which constitutes a fair and proportionate contribution to the scheme based on our GDP share within the G7 and EU. It remains crucial that we pass the Bill as swiftly as possible to begin disbursing funds this winter to meet Ukraine’s urgent needs. Taken together, the ERA will provide Ukraine with an additional $50 billion in support. I pay tribute to our G7 partners for their collective determination to bring the ERA to fruition in just a few short months. We all remain united in our support for Ukraine against Russian provocation.
We in this House recognise the sacrifice that the people of Ukraine are making. They are fighting not only for their own survival and national identity, but for the security of Europe and the United Kingdom. The Bill will enable the Government to provide Ukraine with the essential support it requires to continue its battle against Putin’s unjust and illegal aggression.
At this point, Madam Deputy Speaker, given that this is probably my last contribution to the House this year, I wish you and the House a very merry Christmas, and say to the Ukrainian people that we hold them all in our hearts over this difficult period. I commend the Bill to the House.
Employer National Insurance Contributions
Darren Jones Excerpts(2 weeks, 4 days ago)
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The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
The shadow Chancellor made a number of interesting points, and I will give him the courtesy of going through a number of them. He talked about how this Government are risking inflation, when his Government sent it spiralling to the highest level in a generation. He said that Labour Members are talking down the economy, when his Government crashed it. He said that Conservative Members disagreed with the measures in the Budget, specifically in relation to national insurance contributions, but not one alternative option was laid out in his speech.
The public have a right to know what his choices would be: would the Conservatives want to increase income tax on workers or VAT in the shops, or would they like to increase corporation tax again on business? Would they like to cut tens of billions of pounds from public services or borrow more money every single day to pay the bills, or continue to make a black hole in the public finances? He suggested that the Labour party’s transparency with the country about the £22 billion black hole that the Conservatives left was not real, but they know that they created it. The sooner they say sorry to the country, the sooner the public might start listening to them once again.
I will finish with a positive comment. The shadow Chancellor said that his party was a “job-creating machine”. I am very grateful for the number of former Conservative MPs they have released into the labour market, given how many vacancies we have filled.
In her Budget statement on 30 October, the Chancellor set out the difficult decisions that the Government needed to take on welfare, spending and tax. Those decisions were not just difficult but necessary, given the fiscal irresponsibility and economic mismanagement of the Conservative party over the past 14 years. I welcome a debate on the choices, as I hear Members say from a sedentary position, “Choices, choices, choices.” What are yours? You should set that out to this House and you—[Interruption.] The party opposite should set them out to the public.
Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. The Chief Secretary might like to reflect that when he says, “What are yours?”, it means, “What are mine?” They are not my choices. Can he please be careful not to use “you” and “yours”?
Darren Jones
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. To be very clear and to correct the record, the Conservative party should tell the country what its choices are. I am all ears.
The Labour party inherited a mess and we, as a responsible party of government, have needed to take measures to fix the public finances, fund the national health service and other public services, and deliver economic stability. We have been determined to take those decisions while protecting working people, which was our manifesto commitment. That is why the Budget made no changes to income tax, the rate of VAT or the amount of national insurance working people will pay. As a result of our Budget, people will not see a penny more in tax on their payslips. Yet keeping those promises while getting the country back on track meant tough decisions elsewhere in the tax system—choices and decisions that we are willing to take.
Graham Stuart
Perhaps with the assistance of the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury behind him, the right hon. Gentleman might be able to answer a question that other Treasury Ministers have not been able to: why did the OBR make a correction in table 3.2 in chapter 3? It was originally suggested that £5.5 billion would be provided for compensation
“to public sector employers and adult social care”.
That was then corrected to remove any reference to social care and the number was cut by £800 million. Can the right hon. Gentleman explain what caused the OBR to make that correction and when it was decided that social care was not worth support?
Darren Jones
The right hon. Gentleman might in future give me advance notice of specific references to documents so that I can refer to them. I cannot tell him about table 3.2 in the OBR document because it is not here, but we will of course get an answer to him. He may wish to consider why the OBR said that had the Conservative party been more transparent about its time in government, its forecast would have been materially different. The shadow Chancellor was unable to provide an answer to that in response to interventions from colleagues from around the House.
That inheritance is why, at the Budget, we took the decision to increase national insurance contributions for employers while increasing protections for small businesses and charities. The Government increased the main rate of employer secondary class 1 national insurance contributions from 13.8% to 15%.
Several hon. Members rose—
Darren Jones
I will give way in a second. We have decreased the secondary threshold for employers, which is the threshold above which employers begin to pay employer national insurance contributions on their employees’ salaries, from £9,100 to £5,000. At the same time, we have increased protection for small businesses by more than doubling the employment allowance from £5,000 to £10,500.
Luke Taylor (Sutton and Cheam) (LD)
The national insurance hike will impact on small businesses, which form the backbone of our local economies as fixtures on our high streets across London and across my Sutton and Cheam constituency, including in Worcester Park and North Cheam. Will the right hon. Gentleman join me in recognising that Small Business Saturday is this weekend? Does he agree that the Government might take this opportunity to rethink the national insurance hike and the impact on small businesses, which will be suffering this week and beyond?
Darren Jones
We have factored small businesses into the design of our policy, in terms of both employer national insurance contributions and our commitment to permanent lower rates for business rates than were given under the previous Government, as well as other support for the high street. We are also expanding eligibility to the employment allowance by removing the £100,000 eligibility threshold to simplify and reform employer NICs so that all eligible employers can now benefit.
Changes to the employment allowance mean that around 250,000 employers will see their national insurance contributions liability decrease, and more than 1 million will pay the same or less than they did previously. Overall, that means that more than half of businesses with NICs liabilities will either see no change or will gain overall from the package. That design was put in place specifically to protect the small businesses that the hon. Gentleman raises. That means that 865,000 employers will not pay national insurance at all, enabling them, for example, to employ up to four full-time workers on the national living wage and pay no employer NICs. Employers will also continue to benefit from employer NICs relief, including for hiring workers aged under 21 and apprentices aged under 25. To support veterans, the Government are extending the national insurance contributions relief for employers of qualifying veterans for one year to April 2026, and we have set aside funding to protect the spending power of the public sector, including the national health service, from the direct impacts of the changes.
Even after accounting for the impact of this change, the OBR expects real wages to rise by 3% between now and the end of the forecast period, but we recognise that there will be impacts on employers. While many small businesses and charities will be protected through employment allowance, others will have to contribute more. There will also be impacts beyond business, as the Office for Budget Responsibility has acknowledged.
Mr Perkins
My right hon. Friend and I spent many years in opposition, and have spoken in many Opposition day debates. Does he agree that when the Opposition move a motion like today’s, which says that the Government should not do something without making any alternative suggestion about what they should do, it is a sign that the Opposition have not worked out their answer to the question? At some point, I hope that the Opposition will be able to help the country and the Government by having some policies, but does he agree that, until they do, the Government will just have to crack on as best they can on their own?
Darren Jones
I agree with my hon. Friend, and I encourage Opposition Members to put forward proposals. I am all ears. I am willing to listen to them, but so far all we have is opposition and no policies. Maybe that will change in the future.
The motion claims that the Government have not set out any impact assessment of the policy change, but the Government published a tax information and impact note on 13 November that explained the Government’s assessment of the policy, including its impact on businesses and the economy more widely. This was a difficult choice, and it is not one that we have taken lightly, but it is the right choice given the dire economic inheritance that the Government faced upon taking office, and the need to fix our broken public services. As the Chancellor set out in the Budget, healthy businesses depend on a healthy NHS, and a strong economy depends on strong public finances.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
On the NHS and choices, does the right hon. Gentleman not accept that the Government have chosen to clobber organisations and charities such as air ambulances and the hospice movement—the very organisations whose help the Government will need to improve services for the general public? As we asked yesterday, will he consider an exemption?
Darren Jones
As my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary has made very clear, when the Labour party came into government the NHS was broken. Why? Because of actions taken by the Conservative party over the last 14 years. That is why the Government have to take decisions to get a grip of the public finances and our public services. The changes are necessary in order to draw a line under instability, so that businesses can plan for the future, and to ensure that the NHS will receive an extra £22.6 billion to deliver 40,000 extra elective appointments a week. That vital new funding will create an NHS that is there when we need it, and the Government will achieve that within our tough fiscal rules—rules that will bring an end to borrowing for day-to-day spending, which was completely out of control when the Conservative party was in government.
Madam Deputy Speaker, you might think that, having called for higher NHS spending over the weekend, the Opposition would recognise the need to take tough but necessary decisions on the public finances in order to pay for it, but it seemed from the speech of the shadow Chancellor that that is not the case. Perhaps the Opposition might take the opportunity today to explain how they will raise the £25 billion that the changes provide for, but which they will not support. How else do they intend to pay for the new appointments and better services that the funding offers? What tough decisions would they make to repair the public finances and put our economy on a sustainable footing?
The Opposition’s double standards on this issue only go to show why they are not trusted on the economy: they have given up any pretence of fiscal responsibility. We recognise that the decision to increase employer national insurance will have impacts. Although the changes to employment allowance will help to protect small businesses and charities, other measures mean that larger businesses and organisations will have to make difficult decisions. However, as the Chancellor set out, this was a once-in-a-generation Budget. The difficult decisions we took meant that we were able to wipe the slate clean from the previous Government’s economic and fiscal mismanagement. Public services will now need to live within their means on the budgets we have set for them for the rest of this Parliament.
The Budget delivered economic stability and fiscal responsibility so that we can take the steps necessary to boost investment, fix our public services and grow the economy. That fiscal responsibility is only possible when Governments are willing to take tough decisions. This Government will not shy away from those tough decisions and will do what is right to fix the foundations of our economy, despite the dire inheritance left by the Conservatives. The shadow Chancellor said we were hiding in the past and not facing the future. I say to him: we are running to the future, dealing with the challenges and delivering for the British people.
Several hon. Members rose—
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Makerfield (Josh Simons). I rise to speak in favour of the motion on the Order Paper in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.
I do not rise to speak in this House because I think the Labour party’s Budget is vindictive, but I do think that the national insurance rise we are debating today is a proposal that runs right through the Labour party’s DNA. Labour drives down growth, when growth should be the No. 1 priority for public services. It taxes the wealth creators and the small businesses, it borrows and makes the economic situation worse, and it is always the Conservative party that has to pick up the pieces after Labour has targeted the poorest people and smallest businesses in our society and made them suffer.
Ultimately, the lack of growth that the Labour party and every Labour Member have signed up to means that public services will suffer, fewer jobs will be created and more businesses will close. I gently say to the Chief Secretary that he challenged us repeatedly to outline what we would do instead of this measure to make sure that we can fund public services, and I will tell him a few things that we would not do. [Interruption.] Well, I will tell him in a minute, and he can intervene and elaborate, and I will get an extra minute. As he asked me what we would do, I will tell him: we would increase growth, as was outlined by the OBR. We would have growth, and higher growth than this Government are proposing. However, what we would not be doing is borrowing as much as him and spending £9 billion on public sector pay rises for his trade union paymasters, funded from borrowing. Those are the things we would not do.
Darren Jones
The hon. Member tells the House that he would go for growth. How did that go when his party tried it last time?
Paul Holmes
I simply say—and the Chief Secretary should know this because he supposedly wrote the Budget that we voted on a couple of weeks ago—that growth forecasts were higher under the last Government than those of the Government for whom he is now leading in the Treasury. I say to the Government that business confidence is at the lowest it has been for years.
Oral Answers to Questions
Darren Jones Excerpts(2 weeks, 5 days ago)
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Pamela Nash (Motherwell, Wishaw and Carluke) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
We plan to raise living standards by boosting economic growth to put more money in people’s pockets, and by developing a comprehensive strategy on child poverty to give every child the best start in life. Already, the independent Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that living standards will increase during this Parliament, at more than double the pace observed in the previous Parliament.
Natalie Fleet
Fourteen years of Conservative rule meant that we all saw child poverty levels rise. One in five children across the country now grows up in scarring poverty. A quarter of all children in Bolsover live in poverty. Can the Minister please set out the measures that this Labour Government will take to end this travesty?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. She will know that this Government, like every Labour Government, are committed to improving living standards right across the country. From 1 April 2025, the national living wage will increase by 6.7% to £12.21 per hour for eligible workers aged 21 and over. That represents an increase of £1,400 to the gross annual earnings of a full-time worker on the national living wage, and is expected to benefit around 3 million low-paid workers. My hon. Friend knows that the Government have set up a ministerial taskforce on child poverty, which will report in 2025.
Pamela Nash
In the Chancellor’s first ever Budget, she delivered over £1.5 billion for Scotland this year and £3.4 billion next year—the largest ever block grant settlement in the history of the Scottish Parliament. Unlike the Tories and the SNP, it is clear that this Labour Government are choosing investment over simply managing decline. Can the Minister share with the House a bit more detail about how the Budget will directly impact and improve the lives of people in my constituency of Motherwell, Wishaw and Carluke, and throughout Scotland?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. As she said, the Scottish Government’s spending review settlement for 2025-26 is the largest, in real terms, of any settlement since devolution began. The Scottish Government are receiving at least 20% more per person than equivalent UK Government spending in the rest of the United Kingdom. That translates to over £8.5 billion more in 2025-26 alone. This Labour Government are delivering for the people of Scotland by giving the Scottish Government the power and money to get on with the job, and it is for the SNP to be accountable for what it delivers for the Scottish people.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
Can the Minister confirm that of the £26.4 billion tax rise through the increase in employer NICs, £19 billion will come directly out of people’s pay packets? Secondly, can he confirm that the net amount that the Treasury will actually get from that £26.4 billion after behavioural change and public sector compensation is just £11 billion?
Darren Jones
The right hon. Gentleman seems to have forgotten the cost that working people paid as a consequence of his party’s actions in government, with inflation on house prices racing to 11%, the cost of living crisis, higher energy bills and a loss of grip on public spending. People suffered a direct cost in their disposable income because of the actions of the Conservative party. This Labour Government have wiped the slate clean, and we are getting a grip on public spending, fixing the foundations and delivering for working people.
Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)
Will the Chancellor admit, as she has already done in the media, that wages will be lower because of her jobs tax?
Darren Jones
This Government’s commitment to economic growth will improve living standards for people right across the country. I refer the hon. Member to my previous answer and suggest that his party might want to apologise before trying to lecture this Government on the change that we are delivering.
Darren Paffey (Southampton Itchen) (Lab)
Jacob Collier (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
My hon. Friend has campaigned extensively on this issue in his constituency. I understand that National Highways continues to develop proposals to improve the A50/A500 corridor through Uttoxeter. That is part of the pipeline of projects for future road investment strategies. He will know that in the Budget, we invested £1.6 billion to maintain and renew the nation’s local roads. That includes a £500 million increase in 2025-26 alone.
Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)
On economic black holes, the Labour Mayor of London thinks that Brexit punched a £40 billion black hole in the public finances. A very simple question for the Chancellor: has leaving the EU been a net positive or a net negative for the public finances?
Darren Jones
The Government have no overall estimate of the impact of the UK’s exit from the EU, but the OBR has projected a 4% drop in productivity in the long term. That is why we are starting negotiations with the EU to improve trade in our mutual interest.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
Darren Jones
The Government recognise that ports are an important route to growth, which is why the national wealth fund will deploy at least £5.8 billion into five priority manifesto sectors, including ports. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that specific constituency issue in due course.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
WealthTek was placed into administration by the Financial Conduct Authority after losing £80 million of its clients’ money. FCA-appointed administrators are now deducting fees from victims’ compensation. My constituents Dominic Knights and his wife have between them lost thousands of pounds. What is the Treasury doing to safeguard the £85,000 compensation limit?
Darren Jones
The Government will always support local authorities to deliver good value for money road enhancements to support economic growth and improved connectivity. The Norwich western link road is currently the subject of a live planning application, so I am afraid that I cannot comment further on the specifics.
Rupert Lowe (Great Yarmouth) (Reform)
I cannot help but think that this morning has made for rather depressing listening. We hear this repetition about a £22 billion black hole, but we are dealing with very serious matters such as people’s employment. Ultimately I hear the Chancellor talking about a central planning agenda, but it is public services that are the problem; they are wasting money, and we must seriously consider that. Will the Chancellor accept, if the economy turns down next year, which it surely will, that she has made a mess of it?
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
When the Windsor framework was introduced, it was accompanied by the boast that access to the EU single market would result in a huge increase in investment in Northern Ireland. Is the Chancellor aware that Invest NI has reported that there has been no upturn, and is that not because of the barrier presented by the Irish sea border to the bringing of raw materials into Northern Ireland from Great Britain?
Darren Jones
The Government are committed to increasing the flow of investment to every nation and region of the United Kingdom, and we will continue to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to deliver that for the people of Northern Ireland.
Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill
Darren Jones ExcerptsWednesday 20th November 2024
(1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill 2024-26 View all Financial Assistance to Ukraine Bill 2024-26 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
I am proud of the unity that this House has shown in its support for Ukraine. This support has been steadfast since the onset of Russia’s illegal full-scale invasion in February 2022, regardless of the party in office, and it remains so today. We in this House recognise that while Ukraine is on the frontline, it is fighting for democracy and security across Europe. I want to make it clear that this Government stand, and will continue to stand, in unwavering support of Ukraine with our G7 allies.
On 22 October, my right hon. Friends the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Defence Secretary announced that the UK would contribute £2.26 billion to the G7 extraordinary revenue acceleration loans to Ukraine scheme, the ERA. This landmark agreement will provide Ukraine with a total of $50 billion in vital additional funding, allowing it to continue to fight back against Putin’s war machine. Crucially, these funds will be repaid not by Ukraine, but from the extraordinary profits made on sanctioned Russian sovereign assets held in the European Union.
This Bill simply provides the spending authority for the UK to contribute to the ERA scheme, enabling us to begin disbursing funds to Ukraine. It is another important demonstration of the UK’s commitment to backing Ukraine for as long as it takes. It will unlock our £2.26 billion contribution to the ERA, funding which is additional to all previous commitments.
The UK has long been at the forefront of support for Ukraine. Our total military, humanitarian and economic support pledged since February 2022 already stands at £12.8 billion. We have often been the first mover on military support in particular, which ranges from training over 47,000 Ukrainian military personnel to providing a squadron of Challenger 2 main battle tanks. Earlier this year, the Government announced that the UK would continue to provide guaranteed military support of £3 billion per year to Ukraine for as long as it takes.
But while we can be proud of what the UK has already done for Ukraine, Members of the House need no reminding that Ukraine’s military, budgetary and humanitarian needs continue to be grave. Existing support is not enough; we must go further still to ensure that Ukraine wins this war. We must do this alongside our allies. The ERA is an ambitious scheme, and represents a united G7 pledge, with contributions from the United States, the European Union, Canada and Japan. Our £2.26 billion constitutes a fair and proportionate contribution to the scheme based on the UK’s GDP share in the G7 and EU.
Each lender will now negotiate a bilateral loan with Ukraine to govern how the funds are distributed and spent within a collective framework agreed by the G7. Repayments from the profits on immobilised Russian assets will be redistributed to the G7 lenders from the EU in proportion to our contributions. The EU regulation providing for this is already in place.
The Government have assessed that Ukraine’s most pressing need is for military support. The UK’s contribution to the ERA is therefore earmarked for military procurement to bolster Ukraine’s capacity for self-defence. This support will help ensure that Ukraine can continue to withstand Russian aggression and fight back against it. The UK is committed to ensuring value for money for both the UK and Ukraine, including through exploring the use of existing UK-enabled procurement channels for Ukraine to purchase the equipment that it needs. Our funding will be delivered in three tranches over three financial years, with the first tranche intended to be delivered in early 2025.
The Bill has one simple purpose: to unlock the UK’s contribution to the ERA. It consists of one substantive clause, which seeks the authority of Parliament to spend the money on the UK’s contribution and make good on our commitment. The Bill is not intended to be used for any purpose beyond that, and it will not be used to spend above the £2.26 billion figure that has been announced. Our figure has been agreed with the G7 and caps have been built into the scheme at a G7 level through the EU repayment mechanism.
Although slim, this Bill is essential. Royal Assent is required before we can begin disbursing funds to Ukraine, and before we can receive any repayments from the profits being held in the European Union. It is therefore vital that we pass this Bill as quickly as possible, so we can begin disbursement this winter, as Ukraine’s needs are immediate. I hope that I can count on the support of the House to achieve this, and help us get this vital money into Ukraine’s hands as quickly as possible.
The $50 billion collectively delivered through the ERA lays down a marker to show that we will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. Collectively, we will pursue every available means of making Russia pay for the damage it has done in Ukraine. I am proud to present the UK’s contribution to the scheme today, which will make an immediate tangible difference to Ukraine’s capacity to defend itself. This Bill facilitates that contribution, and I commend it to the House.
Draft Local Loans (Increase of Limit) Order 2024
Darren Jones Excerpts(1 month, 1 week ago)
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The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Local Loans (Increase of Limit) Order 2024.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz, and to bring forward the order for parliamentary approval. The order increases the aggregate limit on local loans through His Majesty’s Treasury’s Public Works Loan Board lending facility from the current level of £115 billion to £135 billion. As specified by the powers within the Public Works Loans Act 1875 and the National Loans Act 1968, those are loans to any local authority for any purpose for which the authority has the power to borrow. In accordance with the powers in the 1968 Act, His Majesty’s Treasury can increase the aggregate limit on outstanding loan debts through statutory instruments up to the maximum limit specified in the Act, which is currently set at £135 billion.
As of March 2024, the Public Works Loan Board’s stock of loans stood at £103.7 billion and is expected to increase further, broadly in line with forecasts for overall local authority borrowing. The Government are therefore bringing forward this statutory instrument to ensure that local authorities can continue to access lending from the Public Works Loan Board to support their capital investment plans and treasury management.
The Government recognise the valuable contribution that local authorities make to the social and economic infrastructure of this country and are committed to supporting local investment through the Public Works Loan Board. His Majesty’s Treasury will continue to work with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to ensure that local authorities are borrowing in a prudent manner and not for speculative, for-profit investment, which is now prohibited through our Public Works Loan Board lending guidance. I stand ready to answer any questions from the Committee and look forward to receiving its support for this legislation.
Darren Jones
I am grateful to hon. Members for sharing their feedback on this statutory instrument and asking a number of questions. The rate of lending is broadly in line with market expectations; post pandemic, it reflects the fact that activity is now getting back to normal after the pandemic years, when fewer things could be done.
We are committed to the guidance on speculative investment and commercial lending, and that will remain in place. As a Treasury, we have general oversight of the Public Works Loan Board and the guidance and monitoring in respect of which the loans are taken out across the country. It is for local authorities, of course, in their own institutional capacity—through their own committees and audit functions—to look at the reasons for borrowing locally and see that that capital is being used well on the ground, but the Treasury has powers to intervene on particular loans and councils if concerns are raised.
Housing is, of course, a really important part of lending from the Public Works Loan Board, which is why we have extended the housing revenue account discount rate on lending for a further year, into financial year 2025-26.
Question put and agreed to.
4.37 pm
Committee rose.
Tax Credit, Child Benefit and Guardian's Allowance Rates
Darren Jones Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
The Tax Credits Act 2002 and the Social Security Administration Act 1992 place a statutory duty on His Majesty’s Treasury to review the rates of tax credits and child benefit each year in line with the general level of prices. There is a further statutory duty on the Treasury to increase guardian’s allowance in line with price growth. I have now concluded the review for the tax year 2025-26.
I have decided to increase child benefit rates in line with the consumer prices index for the year to September 2024, which is 1.7%. Guardian’s allowance will also increase by the same rate. This means that, from 7 April 2025:
The child benefit rate for the eldest child will increase from £25.60 to £26.05 per week;
The child benefit rate for other children will increase from £16.95 to £17.25 per week;
Guardian’s allowance will increase from £21.75 to £22.10 per week.
I have determined that there will be no need for changes to tax credits rates in the tax year 2025-26, as there will be no tax credits awards after 5 April 2025.
The new rates will apply across the United Kingdom. I will deposit the full list of these rates in the House Libraries shortly.
[HCWS174]
Oral Answers to Questions
Darren Jones Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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Mr Tom Morrison (Cheadle) (LD)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
Investment—[Interruption.] I am delighted to be welcomed by those on the Opposition Benches, and am pleased to see them in their place as well. Investment is a key part of the Government’s growth mission, alongside stability and reform. By ensuring adherence to robust fiscal rules and respect for our economic institutions, we are building the confidence needed to deliver greater investment across the country.
Mr Morrison
I thank the Minister for that response. A key part of the northern powerhouse agenda was investment in our rail infrastructure, and residents in my constituency were excited that Cheadle train station finally got planning approval recently. However, recent talk of cuts to infrastructure investment has caused concern. Can the Minister assure us that Cheadle train station is safe and will go ahead?
Darren Jones
The Government are fully committed to ensuring that investment in all parts of the UK, including the north of England, creates growth and impact for working people. The north of England is home to crucial levers to achieve this, as evidenced by our recent announcements on Teesside and Merseyside, which will create thousands of jobs and secure long-term futures. The detail of individual projects will be confirmed in due course.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The creation of the national wealth fund, and the record success of the £63 billion of investment announced at the investment summit, comes on top of investments that Ministers have just announced in carbon capture in the north-west. Those are examples of the success—
Bill Esterson
The successful investments announced are a great example of this Government delivering jobs and economic growth, in the north of England and across the country. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is in stark contrast to the abysmal record of the Conservative party in its 14 years in government?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend rightly points out that this country faces a choice: investment or decline. As we saw at the general election, it chose investment, and that is what the Government will deliver.
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
The Government have launched a multi-year spending review to set out our long-term plans for public spending and to ensure that every pound of taxpayers’ money is spent effectively. The first phase of the spending review is due to report this week, alongside the Budget, and phase 2 will begin shortly after the Budget.
Anna Dixon
I thank my right hon. Friend for his response. Recent National Audit Office reports have revealed the extent of the Tories’ economic mismanagement over the past 14 years. That has put capital projects such as Bingley pool in my constituency at risk. As a member of the Public Accounts Committee, I will ensure that taxpayers’ money delivers value. Will the Minister assure me and my constituents that tomorrow’s Budget will be based on an honest assessment of the public finances, so that this Government can deliver on their promises?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. I can confirm that the Budget tomorrow will be an honest assessment of the mess left to this country by the Conservative party, but crucially our plans for clearing up the mess and then delivering the change we promised.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Given that, I assume, everyone in the Chamber has eaten at some point today, do we think that backing Britain’s farmers is a good use of public money, and given that there is a £2.4 billion budget for British farming, which the last Government underspent foolishly, recklessly and carelessly, will the Chief Secretary guarantee that at the very least the farming budget will be protected so that our farmers can carry on looking after our nature and feeding us?
Darren Jones
Actually, I did not have breakfast today, so I am looking forward to lunch, and I therefore welcome that short question from the hon. Member. This Government are committed to farming and rural affairs, and to the production of the food that they provide for us, which is important for security of supply as well as, in due course, for my lunch.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford) (Ind)
Damien Egan (Bristol North East) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
My hon. Friend is right to point out the opportunities for improvement. As the Chancellor set out in her July statement, prevention will be at the heart of this Government’s new approach to public service reform. That will be set out in the spending review in the coming months.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
Mr Paul Foster (South Ribble) (Lab)
Darren Jones
The Government recognise the significant pressures that all councils are facing. We are looking at consolidating funding streams for local authorities into the local government finance settlement, and we will work towards implementing our commitment to a multi-year financial settlement.
Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)
Danny Beales (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Lab)
A hundred councils in England have come together to call for five key changes to unlock much-needed investment in new council homes. They will welcome the news of £500 million of additional grant and changes to the right-to-buy rules, but one issue they also raise is housing revenue account debt and finance. Will Treasury Ministers look specifically at debt allocations and how HRA debt is accounted for, to unlock much-needed investment in council homes?
Darren Jones
Councils’ housing revenue accounts are a significant part of local authority finances, and it is therefore not right to exclude them from our fiscal rules, but I reassure my hon. Friend that this Government’s commitment to deliver 1.5 million new homes will be delivered.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
However “working people” is defined, does the Chancellor not accept that people on low incomes and part-time employees who earn up to £300 a week should be exempt from paying income tax?
Fiscal Rules
Darren Jones Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a statement to the House about the action the Chancellor will take this week to fix the foundations and rebuild Britain.
Economic growth and modern public services can only be built on strong foundations. That is why this Government have brought political and economic stability back to Britain. After years of chaos from the Conservative party—chaos that cost families, businesses and public services dear—the British people are now rightly looking to this new Labour Government to clear up the mess from the last Government, fix the foundations and rebuild Britain. That is the change that my party promised the country, and it is the change that we will deliver.
To deliver that change, the fiscal rules that the Chancellor will set out this week will establish the basis for stable fiscal policy, meaning careful management of day-to-day spending and responsible long-term plans to invest and grow the economy.
As we committed to in our manifesto, the Government will have two robust fiscal rules that will guide the decisions we take. The first is our stability rule: we will pay for all day-to-day spending on public services from receipts. The budget was last in surplus under the last Labour Government, and this Labour Government will return the public finances to that position. The second is our investment rule, which will get debt falling as a proportion of our economy. It will ensure that we can secure the investment that our economy needs to grow, and to generate jobs and opportunities for people across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, while maintaining a strong fiscal anchor and ensuring that our debt burden falls over time.
The plans that we inherited from the last Government would have seen public sector investment decline to the lowest level in more than 10 years. The path of declining investment is the path of a declining nation, and we refuse to follow it. Instead, we will seize the huge opportunities of the future to support the enterprise and talent that this country creates.
The Government recognise that sustained public investment is a crucial driver of long-term economic growth, giving the private sector the confidence to invest too, but our ambitions for public sector investment must be balanced against the need to maintain debt on a sustainable trajectory and ensure that we invest every pound of taxpayers’ money responsibly. That is why I will deliver a 10-year national infrastructure strategy next spring, working with colleagues across Government, the nations and regions, and with our mayors and the private sector, to set out a robust long-term strategy for sound investment. That is also why our new approach to overlapping multi-year spending reviews will improve the way that we allocate and spend capital, and why the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and I will lead the new national infrastructure and service transformation authority, which will drive better delivery of major projects and infrastructure across the country. In addition, there will be the work of the new office for value for money and the National Audit Office. Those robust guardrails will ensure that our capital spending is value for money, and that our financial investments deliver a positive return for the Exchequer.
Finally, the Chancellor has been listening to the views of institutions such as the International Monetary Fund, and to expert economists. As she has set out, that is why the Treasury has been reviewing the right measure of debt to target in the fiscal rules ahead of the upcoming Budget. The details of that policy will be announced to the House in the Chancellor’s statement on Wednesday, alongside an economic and fiscal forecast produced by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. In the usual way, the fiscal rules will be published in a draft charter for budget responsibility, on which Members will vote in due course. I commend this statement to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)
I call the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Gareth Davies (Grantham and Bourne) (Con)
I wondered whether the Chancellor’s announcement of changes to the fiscal rules would survive the weekend, given the five fictitious freeports that came and went. It was a cautionary tale about the uncertainty and confusion that can be created when policy is not announced in the proper way in Parliament. I welcome the delayed statement by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and I am grateful for advance sight of it.
Making a £50-billion announcement at an overseas conference, and not at a fiscal event in this House, has understandably and notably moved markets, creating further uncertainty for an already nervous business community. Although the Chancellor announced change last week, she did not provide any details about what that change would be—a common approach by Labour that is now coming back to bite them as the realities of government set in. The Prime Minister has admitted as much in recent days, speaking of the need to “embrace…fiscal reality” by adopting measures that were never listed in Labour’s manifesto. In fact, the Chancellor explicitly said before the election that she would not change the fiscal rules because that would be “to fiddle the figures”. By going ahead with this latest U-turn and broken promise, she has compromised trust and credibility ahead of her first Budget.
That joins the long list of promises already broken by the Labour Government in such a short time: the promise to cut energy bills by £300—broken; the promise that their manifesto was fully costed—broken; the promise to be on the side of pensioners—so obviously broken; and we know that their promise not to raise taxes on working people is about to be broken, too. Try as they might to sell a different story, just like Government bonds right now, people ain’t buying it.
We are left in the ludicrous position in which the UK—the sixth-largest economy in the world—does not have an operative definition of public debt. Quite understandably, markets have responded to this latest uncertainty by applying a premium to UK sovereign debt at a time when they have been discounting the sovereign debt of our international peers. The markets are also perplexed as to why these changes were announced without an accompanying OBR report. In the words of the Chancellor,
“Never have a Government borrowed so much and explained so little.”—[Official Report, 23 September 2022; Vol. 719, c. 941.]
The Government may think that this will all go unnoticed, and that most people do not know enough about the fiscal rules to know what is really going on here, but let me be very clear: the people will know about this. They will know it and feel it when interest rates stay higher for longer. Treasury advice to us was consistently clear: interest rates would stay higher if the rules were changed. What advice did Treasury officials give the Chief Secretary to the Treasury about the impact on interest rates? Does he agree with Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, who said that the change will mean
“more debt, more debt interest”,
and that it is “no free lunch”?
Of course, we all want to see investment in our public services and infrastructure. We oversaw the largest ever increase in funding for the NHS, we increased defence spending to the highest levels since the cold war, and we attracted the second-greatest foreign direct investment in the world, but we sought that investment with a view to boosting productivity by investing in technology—that approach has now been scrapped by Labour—and spreading opportunity around this country through freeports and investment zones. This Labour Government are quick to spend but unwilling to explain.
Finally, on behalf of the British people, and the markets, which are watching this statement so very nervously, I ask the Chief Secretary to the Treasury: what definition of public debt is the UK offering to lenders today, and how much do the Government plan to borrow under an expanded definition? He will say that we have to wait for the Budget, but the Chancellor did not wait last week, so why should we?
Darren Jones
I am very fond of the hon. Gentleman, but he has some brass neck to stand up in this House and tell this Government how to behave after his party’s maladministration over the last 14 years. May I politely point out that he might be getting slightly ahead of himself? The Chancellor has not set out the detail of the fiscal rules in advance of the Budget; she will do it in this House, in the Budget on Wednesday, and I encourage him to wait for that information. He painted a picture of the country performing so well under his party’s leadership, but he may want to reflect on why he lost the last election so badly.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
As Chair of the Treasury Committee, which has responsibility for scrutinising the Budget, I find the timing of this statement a bit frustrating, as we will have questions that presumably cannot be answered until Wednesday. Will the Chief Secretary explain how the guardrails will work? There is the national infrastructure and service transformation authority, the office for value for money and the National Audit Office. What role will each play in reassuring the markets, so that an autumn “sniffle”—that is PSNFL, or public sector net financial liabilities—does not become a winter cold?
Darren Jones
I know that the Chancellor looks forward to giving evidence to the Treasury Committee following the Budget in the normal way. To answer the question, the national infrastructure strategy will, for the first time, bring together all the infrastructure and major project asks of Whitehall Departments into one place alongside the economic infrastructure assessments. This will inform the multi-year spending reviews, which will now overlap, so that when an election comes up, we do not again end up with a Government making no spending plans whatsoever, or announcing a load of projects when there is no money to pay for them. We are confident that this better approach to allocating capital will mean that investment under this Government will improve the productivity of our public services and the growth of our economy, and mean a better return for British taxpayers across the country.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
Under the Conservatives, the fiscal rules changed five times in seven years, so a change to fiscal rules is not that unusual in and of itself. However, does the Minister agree that what would be completely unforgivable is a repeat of the Conservatives’ disastrous mini-Budget, in which they tried to pursue £40 billion of unfunded tax cuts, and which left a long shadow on our public finances? Will he assure us that any additional borrowing that the Government seek will only be for productive investment that will generate growth and fix our crumbling hospitals and schools?
Darren Jones
I thank the hon. Lady for her question and share her continued anger about the behaviour of the last Conservative Government, because as she and the whole House will know, our constituents are still paying the price of that Government’s chaos and failure. That is why the first Act of this Labour Government— the first Act that I took through this House—was the Budget Responsibility Act 2024, which locked in the power of the Office for Budget Responsibility to hold this Government and future Governments to account. If we ever again ended up in a position where Conservative Ministers decided to ignore independent checks and balances, the OBR would be able to report its view to this House independently, so that Parliament could hold that future Government to account. I end by pointing to our first fiscal rule, which is that we will pay for day-to-day spending with receipts. Again, that means that we will not end up in the situation that we were in under the last Government, when month after month, borrowing just paid the bills for which they did not put money aside.
Dr Jeevun Sandher (Loughborough) (Lab)
Fiscal rules are a tool for responsibility, and we should all welcome rules that help us to act responsibly and invest responsibly. The rules and the accounting definitions that underlie them are not matters of faith, preordained by the Almighty and passed to us on stone tablets; they are there to help us make responsible decisions. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me, and with the former chief economist of the Bank of England, the OECD, the International Monetary Fund and George Osborne’s former Treasury Minister, that we should welcome changes to the fiscal rules that promote investment?
Darren Jones
I will avoid the suggestion that we might go back to putting things on stone tablets if I may, but I will accept the invitation in my hon. Friend’s question, and say that after 14 years, we have seen the failure of the approach taken by the last Government. I noted in my statement that public sector investment would now have been at its lowest in 10 years, under the plans of the now Opposition. That has been a failure for the economy and for the British people, and this Government will rectify it.
Neil O'Brien (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston) (Con)
Before the election, the Chancellor said that she would not change the measure of debt in order to borrow more, but now she is talking about doing exactly that. Before the election, she said that she would not increase national insurance, but now she is talking about doing exactly that. Before the election, Labour steered people away from the idea that the Government would cut the winter fuel payment, but they have already done exactly that. They said, before the election, that they would not increase taxes on working people, but now they are planning to do exactly that. Does the Minister understand why so many of my constituents feel that they were misled?
Darren Jones
The hon. Member’s constituents will note at the Budget on Wednesday that this party honours its promises—the promises, set out in its manifesto, to protect working people. He might want to reflect on the way that his party failed his constituents at the last election before trying to lecture this Government.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
I welcome measures that allow for more long-term investment to improve our economic performance and public services, but I would like my right hon. Friend to address two issues. Is housing one of the areas where more investment might be allowed, to help us achieve our target of 1.5 million more homes in this Parliament? Secondly, will he ensure that where there is public investment, we try to make that investment produce orders for UK companies, rather than many of the orders going abroad? That is the way to create real growth in our economy.
Darren Jones
We made a commitment to delivering 1.5 million homes, and we will do just that. On the second part of the question, the whole purpose of the national infrastructure strategy and the overlapping multi-year spending reviews is to give investors and suppliers confidence that when the Government say something will be delivered, it will, so they can invest and plan on that basis, to help improve the British economy. Frankly, they are starting from a position of complete dismay because of the failed promises of the last Government; we will rectify that.
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (North Cotswolds) (Con)
If we could stick with the here and now, what the Chancellor announced caused the bond markets to move almost immediately by almost 0.5%. That means that interest rates will stay higher for longer. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that that will cause hardship to today’s mortgage payers and tomorrow’s generation of taxpayers, because they will have to repay this extra debt?
Darren Jones
What I can confirm is that what affected interest rates and mortgage payments so severely was the chaotic behaviour of the hon. Gentleman’s party in government before the last election. That is why we have had to legislate to make sure that if they ever returned to Government, they could not behave in similar ways. We are taking a responsible approach to public spending, as I have set out today, and we will never return to the activities of his party in government.
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
There appears to be some confusion among those on the Opposition Benches when talking about their track record and about the records they have broken on the relationship between the nominal and the real. On the point about being realistic, does the Minister agree that in our reform of the fiscal rules, we must, unlike the last Government, provide that realism and stability and ensure that wild unfunded commitments, such as the abolition of national insurance, do not occur?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend points rightly to the £22 billion black hole that we are having to clear up after the Tory party. In the Budget on Wednesday, the Chancellor will set out how we are resetting public finances and fixing the foundations, so that we can get on and deliver our manifesto.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
In outline terms, we welcome what the Government are seeking to do. It is important to raise the ability to generate capital infrastructure investment. Scotland invests 42% more than the UK average, and the UK average is 50% lower than the OECD average. That issue is a priority, but the Government’s move will fall on stony ground if on Wednesday the Chancellor continues with her priority to not lift people out of poverty and to go by exception after small businesses that take an income from that business by raising the cost of employment. With the four signal capital investment projects all being in England, I am moved to ask: what’s in this for Scotland?
Darren Jones
I am delighted to hear the hon. Gentleman tell the House that he welcomes the positive change that this Labour Government in Westminster are delivering to the Scottish people. I agree with him. On early announcements, I can point to GB Energy and the huge commitments we have made on energy infrastructure, which we know will be important to the Scottish people. We absolutely recognise that the Scottish economy has a huge contribution to make to the whole economy of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and we look forward to working with the Scottish people to make that a reality.
Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)
I commend my right hon. Friend on his work on stability and investment. Would he like to say a little more about the challenging inheritance he has received from the previous Government, and just how dreadful that has actually been?
Darren Jones
I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. [Interruption.] I know that Opposition Members find it uncomfortable, but it is a matter of fact that we will return to time and time again, because the sheer truth of it is that the last Government made promise after promise to the British people, knowing that they did not have the money to pay the bills. It is shameful, and the sooner they come to the House and apologise for their behaviour, the better it might be for them in the long run.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
If the Minister is so confident in his fiscal rules, will he take this opportunity to commit to the House that the 10-year gilt yield in this Parliament will not exceed the maximum it was over the past 10 years?
Darren Jones
The hon. Gentleman is trying to be clever, but he is inviting me to speculate on the Budget. He will have to wait until Wednesday.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that sustainable growth cannot come from short-termism and that the falls in public sector investment planned under the last Government would have exacerbated, rather than ameliorated, the economic chaos they got us into?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend is right. We have a choice at this Budget either to continue with the failed policies of the previous Government or to change them. The British people will not be surprised that our decision is to change them, reflecting on the fact that the cut in investment under the previous Government has led to poor productivity in public services and a lack of growth in the economy. That serves nobody.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
This statement speaks of giving the private sector the confidence to invest. Can the Minister explain to the small businesses in my constituency how it will give them confidence if the first act of this Government is to soak them with further national insurance increases? Will that not dent confidence, rather than increase it, along with sustained high interest rates? When he speaks about multi-year spending reviews, does that mean that he now expects the devolved Governments to produce multi-year budgets, which is something that the Stormont Government have been reluctant to do?
Darren Jones
I obviously cannot speculate on the Budget, so I invite the hon. Gentleman to come back to the House on Wednesday for the answer to the first part of his question. On the second part, he might know that I lead for the Government on our relationship with the devolved Governments. I have met Finance Ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, most recently in Belfast, where we had a productive meeting. They were all very clear that the reset in the relationship between them and the Westminster Government was positive, given the failed relationships of the past. We made some progress in that meeting, and we will make further such progress in the Budget.
Jon Trickett (Normanton and Hemsworth) (Lab)
Is it not clear that the ruling economic orthodoxy has let this country down over many years? How else can we explain the fact that in 24 of the last 30 years, the UK spent less on investment than any other G7 country? In particular, in post-industrial areas like mine, the investment simply did not come. I encourage the Minister to break with the prevailing orthodoxy and ensure that we achieve the appropriate investment levels and direct that investment particularly to the north, the midlands and elsewhere.
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend has invited me to answer the question, “Why wasn’t there investment over the last decade or so?” Quite frankly, it is because of the choices of the Conservative party. This Labour party in government is taking a different set of decisions and we will set out the detail on Wednesday.
Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)
First, I declare my interest as a governor of the Royal Berkshire hospital, and I have a family member who is a shareholder in a health company. As Lord Darzi said, the Conservatives have failed to provide proper capital funding for our NHS. I thank the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Secondary Care for their engagement with me and other MPs on the review of the new hospital programme. Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury guarantee that the changes to the fiscal rules will mean that my constituents can see new and immediate funding for the Royal Berkshire hospital?
Darren Jones
The hon. Member asks me so politely, but he will know that I cannot guarantee anything in advance of the Budget. However, it sounds as though he has already experienced the positive way in which this Government are approaching how we will repair the NHS and get it back on its feet, both by getting junior doctors off the strike line and back into wards and by investing in hospitals for the future. I know that he will look forward to the announcements in the Budget on Wednesday.
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
Before I became an MP, I led services for very vulnerable people and, unfortunately, came into close contact with gaslighting. As a new MP, I am afraid that my contact with gaslighting is not diminishing, and I slightly despair at what I am seeing from Opposition Members. While I was out canvassing over the weekend and talking with residents on Ken Road in Southbourne, I met a constituent who said, “We knew it wasn’t going to be pretty and you were going to inherit a mess, and we knew that it would be a long haul to get things right. But we were sick and tired of politicians who weren’t taking the big decisions and investing in the long term.” Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should listen to more of our constituents, like the person I just mentioned, who happened to vote Labour on 4 July for the first time in her life?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend, and I thank his constituent for putting her trust in this Labour Government. As the Prime Minister said today, this Government will “run towards” the problems, as opposed to running away from them, as the Conservative party did. That will mean difficult decisions at the Budget on Wednesday to deal with the mess that we inherited, to reset public finances and to be able to start to deliver our manifesto. But this Government will take those decisions and we will announce the detail on Wednesday.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his statement. I want to ask what the legacy of this will be. Will he further outline how the change to the fiscal rules to allow for more efficient borrowing will not simply pass more debt on to, for example, my six lovely grandchildren and everybody else’s grandchildren, who already face a scaled-back welfare system and increased costs of living before they even earn their first pay cheque? How will the Minister’s so-called guardrails not simply be barriers to future generations owning their own homes and making ends meet? I am thinking of the ones who come after.
Darren Jones
I thank the hon. Member for his question. He and his constituents will know, as much as mine do, that the problem for this country before the election was that the last Government had to borrow each month to pay for bills that they did not have the money to pay for, and that they made a whole list of promises across the country that they knew they could not pay for. That is why we have the £22 billion black hole, and why our first fiscal rule is that day-to-day spending will be paid for from tax receipts by the Exchequer. We will put the public budget back into surplus so that we are not in a doom loop of borrowing and borrowing just to keep ahead of ourselves each month. Where the Government do borrow, we will do so for productive investment to modernise our public services and to get growth back into our economy.
Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Ind)
New research published this month by the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that reversing the two-child benefit cap would lift 540,000 children above the absolute poverty line. There are no fiscal rules, only fiscal choices. While taskforces meet, more and more children in Coventry South and across the country are consigned to avoidable poverty. Will the Government acknowledge that, prioritise ending child poverty and finally scrap the pernicious two-child benefit cap?
Darren Jones
I share my hon. Friend’s commitment to wanting to tackle child poverty in this country—this party had a proud record on that when we were in government previously. That is why we have set up the child poverty taskforce, which reported last week, and our ambition is to reduce child poverty over the course of this Parliament. We will set out further measures in the Budget on Wednesday on how we intend to deliver that.
Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his statement. Residents and businesses in my constituency absolutely share our ambition to get the country back on track, and acknowledge that the mission-led focus of the Government and the fiscal rules are at the core of that. They contrast that with 14 years of drift under the Conservatives, punctuated only by 49 days of utter chaos. However, residents and businesses in my area want to be reassured that they can be confident about our level of ambition, so will the Minister update us on how investors are responding to our focus and the maturity that we bring to the debate around the economy?
Darren Jones
I point my hon. Friend to our very successful international investment summit only a couple of weeks ago, when it was very clear from investors that bringing stability back to our politics and our economy has been long wanted. That is why we were able to commit to £63 billion of investment in the country at the summit, followed by another £10 billion of investment announced only a few days after. We intend to raise much more to invest in this country and to bring growth back to the economy.
Emily Darlington (Milton Keynes Central) (Lab)
Constituents in Milton Keynes voted for change because they see the consequences of the Conservative economic policy. They are suffering from the cost of living crisis and have seen this in their crumbling schools, the lack of GP appointments and the use of food banks just to make ends meet. Will the Chief Secretary reassure me and my constituents that we will end the Conservative use of payday loans just to keep the lights on and instead invest in new schools, new hospitals and new infrastructure, alongside making work pay, so that my constituents see their lives improve?
Darren Jones
With my hon. Friend’s reference to payday loans, she points to the behaviour of the previous Government. As I have told the House this afternoon, this Government, with their first fiscal rule, will take us to a place where we are not borrowing to pay the bills each month, as had happened for years under the Conservatives. Anyone managing their family finances at home knows that that is the right thing to do, and they will welcome the fact that this Government are bringing that sense of discipline back to the national economy, too.
Richard Baker (Glenrothes and Mid Fife) (Lab)
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that as part of their fiscal strategy and within the fiscal rules, the Government will utilise the national wealth fund to lever in private investment, along with public investment from the taxpayer, for key areas of growth in our economy, including, for example, renewables infrastructure, which is of such importance in Scotland?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend knows that the test of a good Government is whether they can secure private sector investment to come alongside them—something that declined under the last Government. That is why the national wealth fund, which the Chancellor has announced, will secure billions of pounds of private sector investment, alongside public sector investment, in the industries of the future.
Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that the previous Government’s failure to invest not only damaged economic growth, but led to damage to our public services, with a broken NHS, special educational needs in crisis and local government on the brink?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend will know, from speaking to his constituents during his campaign to be elected and since, that people’s experience of public services across the country shows the fact of the matter: after 14 years of failure from the Conservatives, our public services are on their knees. That is why they need a Government who will bring stability back to our economy, invest in public services and improve outcomes for people who rely on them and work in them.
Mr Luke Charters (York Outer) (Lab)
Following the disastrous mini-Budget, the Bank of England was forced to undertake emergency liquidity operations to reduce volatility in markets. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the investment summit’s record £63 billion shows that this Government are creating stable conditions for long-term investment, after years of political chaos from the Conservative party?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for his excellent question, and I agree that £63 billion invested in this country was a sign of confidence, because investors around the world know that Britain is back after years of chaos.
Torsten Bell (Swansea West) (Lab)
It is good to hear about changes to address the big problem with our macroeconomic framework—the bias against new investment spending. May I draw the Chief Secretary’s attention to the other problem with the system, which acts as an incentive for Ministers not to manage well the assets that they already hold? I refer him to the 2017 sale of £3.5 billion-worth of student loans for just £1.7 billion. Will he reassure the House that the changes that he is making will ensure that we get value for money for the existing financial assets that we hold?
Darren Jones
I can give my hon. Friend that reassurance, and I point to the Office for Value for Money, which will work for us to ensure that we improve on behaviours of the past. I also point more broadly to the way that we manage our current assets. People have only to look at the state of our prisons, hospitals and schools, with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete and roofs falling in, to know that after 14 years of cuts to investment, we cannot carry on like that. That is why people voted for change at the last election, and why we will deliver it.
Budget Responsibility Bill
Darren Jones ExcerptsWednesday 4th September 2024
(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Budget Responsibility Act 2024 View all Budget Responsibility Act 2024 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 4 September 2024 - (4 Sep 2024)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Nokes. May I start by congratulating hon. Friends and others on delivering their maiden speeches? It has been a pleasure to be in the Chamber to hear them this afternoon. They will clearly be great champions for their constituencies.
I will take a few moments to remind the House of why we are taking forward the important clauses in the Bill, and to set out the Government’s views on the proposed amendments. At the general election, the Government received a mandate for economic growth. That is the only route to improving prosperity, and it is now our national mission. A crucial first step to achieving it is to deliver economic stability. We have seen what happens without stability: at the 2022 Conservative mini-Budget, huge unfunded fiscal commitments were made without proper scrutiny, and key economic institutions such as the Office for Budget Responsibility were sidelined. That is why we have made a commitment in our manifesto to a fiscal lock that will strengthen the role of the OBR, and why we have taken quick action to deliver on that commitment. That will reinforce credibility and trust by preventing large-scale unfunded commitments that are not subject to an independent fiscal assessment, and proves that we are a responsible Government who will not play fast and loose with the public finances as the previous Government did.
The Bill sets out the legal framework for the operation of the fiscal lock, and builds on the Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act 2011. In line with that established legal framework, some of the technical detail underpinning the fiscal lock will be set out via an upcoming update to the charter for budget responsibility, a draft of which the Treasury has published to support scrutiny of the Bill today.
I will now talk through the Bill’s two clauses. The first is the main substantive clause, setting out the operation of the fiscal lock. It introduces a new section 4A into part 1 of the Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act 2011, which relates to budget responsibility and was used to legally establish the OBR.
Clause 1 makes five key changes. First, new subsection (1) of section 4A guarantees in law that from now on, every fiscally significant change to tax and spending will be subject to scrutiny by the independent OBR. It will require that before a Government Minister makes any fiscally significant announcement to Parliament, the Treasury always requests that the OBR prepare an economic and fiscal forecast. This builds on existing legal frameworks requiring the OBR to produce at least two forecasts per year. Importantly, the OBR’s assessment should include the extent to which the Government are meeting their fiscal mandate. That requirement applies when two or more announcements are made and the combination of measures is fiscally significant, irrespective of whether the measures are announced at the same time. It will also apply separately to costs and savings, so that those cannot be offset against each other.
New subsection (2) strengthens the role of the OBR by requiring it to produce an independent assessment if it judges that the fiscal lock has been triggered. If a fiscally significant announcement is made without the Treasury having previously requested a forecast, the OBR is required to inform the Treasury Committee of this House of its opinion, and then prepare an assessment as soon as is practicable.
New subsection (3) defines a measure or combination of measures as “fiscally significant” if they exceed a specified percentage of GDP. In line with the existing legal framework, the precise threshold will be set via an update to the charter for budget responsibility, a draft of which will be published on gov.uk. The threshold level itself will be set at announcements of at least 1% of nominal GDP in the latest forecast—as an example, this year, that 1% threshold would be £28 billion.
New subsection (4) ensures proper scrutiny of the Government’s fiscal plans without preventing them from responding to emergencies such as the covid-19 pandemic. It sets out that the fiscal lock does not apply in respect of measures that are intended to have a temporary effect and are in response to an emergency. The charter will define “temporary” as any measure that is intended to end within two years. To safeguard against this subsection being used to avoid proper scrutiny, as set out in the updated charter, the OBR will have the discretion to trigger the fiscal lock and prepare a report if it reasonably disagrees.
Finally, new subsection (6) prevents any future Government from choosing to ignore the fiscal lock by simply updating the charter for budget responsibility alongside a fiscally significant announcement. It achieves this by requiring the Government to publish any updates to the detail of the fiscal lock, such as the threshold level at which it is triggered, at least 28 days before the updated charter is laid before Parliament.
Clause 2 sets out when the Bill will come into force and to whom it applies. Subsection (1) confirms that it deals with reserved or excepted matters, and that its provisions extend and therefore apply to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Subsections (2) and (3) allow for the commencement of the legislation to occur at the appropriate time, as is usual practice. We expect this will take place ahead of the upcoming Budget on 30 October.
I will now turn to the amendments that right hon. and hon. Members have tabled.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
Before my right hon. Friend does so, will he give way?
Karl Turner
Is this Bill not designed to prevent the recklessness of the previous Tory Government, who effectively crashed the economy, leaving this new Labour Government with the responsibility of putting things right?
Darren Jones
My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. Indeed, I might go so far as to say that that was one of the reasons we achieved such a large mandate at the last general election, with so many hon. Friends on the Government Benches. We will never play fast and loose with the economy, as Members on the Conservative Benches did, and this Bill will prevent that from happening again in the future.
I start with amendments 9 and 10, tabled by the shadow Chancellor. They would require the OBR to publish a report whenever His Majesty’s Treasury announces new fiscal rules. The purpose of the Bill is to ensure that no Government can make large-scale announcements of tax and spending without being subject to independent assessment. The Government’s robust fiscal rules will support economic stability, but do not change tax and spending. It is those decisions that matter, as we saw when the previous Conservative Government announced £45 billion of unfunded commitments in the 2022 mini-Budget.
Andrew Griffith
The Minister can answer this briefly as well. Could he confirm that he has no plans to change the fiscal rules?
Darren Jones
The hon. Gentleman is enjoying himself, but he knows the answer: wait for the Budget.
The amendments from the official Opposition are therefore not necessary. To answer the question from the shadow Financial Secretary, the hon. Member for Droitwich and Evesham (Nigel Huddleston), as I have been invited to do so, the Chancellor has already confirmed that the Government will set out the precise details of our fiscal rules at the Budget on 30 October, alongside an updated OBR forecast.
amendments 6 and 7, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Ms Creasy), focus on the definition of “fiscally significant” measures to which the fiscal lock will apply. They would extend the definition to include measures that have a cumulative effect on public sector net debt or contingent liabilities. I welcome my hon. Friend highlighting this issue, on which I know she has worked for many years. The draft charter text states that measures will trigger the lock when the combined costing is at least 1% of GDP in any year, and specifically:
“The costing of a measure is the direct impact of a policy decision on the public finances”.
It is difficult to set and interpret a threshold consistently for contingent liabilities as they can often be large in maximum exposure, but low in expected or reasonable worst-case losses. Effective management of contingent liabilities is important, and transparency is key to good fiscal management. The Government plan to announce new significant contingent liabilities at fiscal events to make sure there is transparency with Parliament. We will of course continue to notify Parliament of new contingent liabilities, as set out in “Managing Public Money”.
The amendments would also place a condition on policies with a cumulative impact on public sector net debt, and my hon. Friend noted public-private partnerships as an example. She was referring to PFI and PF2 models, which the previous Government had no longer proceeded with, and there has been no change to this policy. As the Chancellor said in her Mais lecture earlier this year, we will also report on wider measures of public sector assets and liabilities at fiscal events to ensure transparency across the whole balance sheet, which includes non-debt liabilities. Reporting transparently on the Government’s stock of contingent liabilities is key to ensuring we do not take excessive risk. I can therefore confirm today that the Government will publish a report on our contingent liabilities. I expect the contingent liability central capability to do this in early 2025. Having said all that, I recognise the issues my hon. Friend raises, and I will arrange to meet her to discuss them further.
Moving on to the Liberal Democrat amendments, amendment 2 was tabled by the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney). As she said, it would enable the OBR to notify the independent adviser on Ministers’ interests if the fiscal lock was triggered. I remind hon. Members that the purpose of this Bill is to ensure that never again do we find ourselves in a situation, like at the 2022 Liz Truss mini-Budget, in which fiscally significant measures are announced without accompanying OBR analysis. If a future Government were to act in this way, the Bill provides a clear remedy. The OBR is empowered to independently notify the Treasury Committee and to produce its own report. This would be available for full scrutiny by stakeholders and Parliament, which would be able to hold Ministers to account in the normal way. We therefore do not consider the amendment necessary.
Amendment 1, also tabled by the Liberal Democrats, would broaden the definition of fiscally significant measures to cover anything that is likely to have an impact on the cost of Government borrowing, interest rates or economic growth. The Bill is focused on preventing irresponsible large-scale fiscal announcements that could undermine macroeconomic stability, such as at the mini-Budget. To support that, we need clear and robust legal frameworks that ensure the provisions are triggered only when appropriate. This requires precise definitions that everyone, including the OBR in particular, can understand clearly and work with practically. It would therefore not be helpful, in the Government’s view, to have a broader, vaguer definition that might repeatedly trigger the fiscal lock under many different circumstances.
Amendments 3 and 4 would require the Treasury to consult the OBR and the Treasury Committee before the charter can be updated for the purposes of the fiscal lock, and to publish a report on the outcome of any such consultations. It is of course important that the views of the OBR and of Parliament are taken into account when making changes to the charter. However, I hope the hon. Member will accept that it will not be necessary to set out this specific process in primary legislation, because the Bill already includes an important safeguard on the fiscal lock, which is the requirement that any changes to the charter for budget responsibility are published in draft at least 28 days before they are laid in the Commons. That will ensure that the OBR, the Treasury Committee, this Parliament and all stakeholders will have a clear opportunity to make representations to the Treasury and to publish their views, as they see fit.
Amendment 5, tabled by the hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Ellie Chowns), would require the OBR to take net zero targets into account when preparing a report on fiscally significant announcements. Strong legal frameworks are already in place in the Climate Change Act 2008 to support the transition to net zero in 2050. The Act legislates for interim five-year carbon budgets, and requires the Government to report on those periodically. Parliament and its Select Committees already scrutinise that in great detail. The Green Book, the Treasury’s guidance on how to appraise policies, projects and programmes, requires Departments to assess the climate and environmental impacts of policy proposals, with major bids and proposals at fiscal events being assessed accordingly in that way. We therefore do not consider the amendment to be necessary.
Ellie Chowns
Does the Minister agree that having committed to give a net zero mandate to all relevant regulators, the OBR is indeed a highly relevant regulator?
Darren Jones
And it is equipped to do the job it is supposed to do, alongside the other regulatory body that holds the Government to account, the Committee on Climate Change.
In conclusion, I hope I have been able to provide some assurances and that hon. Members will be content to retract their amendments. If not, I urge the House to reject them. I thank other Members for their contributions to the debate. I gently invite the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) to reflect on his own party’s record in crashing the economy through unfunded tax cuts, losing control of public spending and ruining family finances, before offering advice to this Government on fiscal responsibility. I say to the SNP spokesperson, who is not in his place, that I was surprised to see so many discredited Conservative party lines to take in his speech. Who knew that the SNP and the Tory party were one and the same thing?
With this Labour Government our commitment to fiscal discipline and sound money is the bedrock of all our plans. The Bill will guarantee in law that from now on every fiscally significant change to tax and spending will be subject to scrutiny by the independent OBR. That delivers on a key manifesto commitment to provide economic stability and sound public finances by strengthening the role of the independent OBR. That is a crucial first step to achieve sustained economic growth, and I commend the Bill to the House.
The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Caroline Nokes)
I call shadow Minister Nigel Huddleston.
Nigel Huddleston
I will not detain the House long by repeating the arguments that I made in my opening comments, but I am disappointed by the Minister’s response, and in particular by his refusal to accept our amendments. It is alarming that he is refusing to do so because, as I outlined, I believe they are consistent with the goals of the Bill overall, and I think the credibility of the Bill will be seriously undermined if it does not include the fiscal rules. I like the Minister a lot. We go back a way and have always had civil conversations, but if he does not believe or consider the level, type and definition of debt to be “fiscally significant”, then with the greatest respect perhaps the Treasury is not the right home for him. They are transparently fiscally significant, and an important part of the consideration we are talking about today.
Darren Jones
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and for inviting me to suggest whether I should try to find a job in another Department. I just point out that, having arrived at the Treasury, I have seen the impact of fiscally significant levels of debt after 14 years of the Conservative Government. Has he got anything to say to the House on that matter?
Nigel Huddleston
Yes, I have indeed. As I outlined in my original statement, the arguments the right hon. Member is making do not stack up with the facts. The economic circumstances that Labour inherited are better in many areas than those we inherited from them back in 2010. The economy is the fastest growing in the G7. On unemployment, every Labour Government since the second world war has increased it while in power, for us to then clear up and reduce it when we take over. Inflation was lower when Labour took power then when we inherited it, and annual debt was higher when we took over in 2010.
Labour Members keep saying all those things, but the challenge is that it does not stack up with the facts. They make arguments about the level of debt, as I outlined earlier, but they have already announced £10 billion for inflation-busting salary increasing for their union mates, £8 billion on energy provisions, and £7 billion on the national wealth fund. That is £25 billion of additional money that they have spent. If there is a black hole in the finances, it is clearly one of their own making by the announcements they have made since coming into government. That £25 billion is a huge amount of money, but I will finish discussing those points, because we had this debate earlier.
Nigel Huddleston
I will not give way at the moment, because I want to move on to some more positive things.
Darren Jones
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I will not take up too much more time, but I will provide a final reminder of how important this legislation is. At the general election, the Government received a mandate for economic growth. Sustained growth is the only route to improve prosperity and to improve the living standards of the British people. It is now our national mission.
Economic stability is key to achieving this. We have seen what happens without it, when huge, unfunded fiscal commitments are made without proper scrutiny and when key economic institutions such as the OBR are sidelined. We cannot let ourselves get into that position again. Unfunded, unassessed spending commitments not only threaten the public finances, they can threaten people’s incomes and mortgages, as we saw under the previous Government.
I therefore encourage Conservative Members—who have told us today that, after 14 years of Conservative government, the economy has never been so good—to reflect, if only for a moment, on why they lost all credibility for economic competence and suffered the worst election result in their history.
Once again, I congratulate all my hon. Friends and other hon. Members on their excellent maiden speeches today. I thank hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of the House for their contributions, and I thank the Clerks and officials who have supported the Bill’s rapid passage.
The Budget Responsibly Bill forms a small but vital part of our plan to restore economic stability and deliver economic growth. For these reasons, I commend it to the House.
Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)
I thank everyone who has contributed to the debates on the Bill, both today and before the summer recess, especially new Members who have made their maiden speech: the hon. Members for Loughborough (Dr Sandher), for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin), for Swindon North (Will Stone), for Chelmsford (Marie Goldman), for Southend East and Rochford (Mr Alaba), for Woking (Mr Forster), for Rother Valley (Jake Richards), for Wokingham (Clive Jones), for Dudley (Sonia Kumar), for Rochester and Strood (Lauren Edwards), for Plymouth Moor View (Fred Thomas) and for Northampton North (Lucy Rigby). They all spoke incredibly well, with passion and eloquence, and we wish them well for their time in the House.
We Conservatives believe that sound public finances, fiscal responsibility and independent forecasts are the foundation of economic stability, which is why it was a Conservative Government who created the OBR more than a decade ago, and it is why today we tabled our amendments to improve the Bill and stop Labour moving the goalposts on the fiscal rule. By voting against our sensible proposal, Labour Members have shown they are not serious about our public finances. What are they trying to hide? It is clear that the purpose of the Bill is to distract everyone from Labour’s economic record and pave the way for tax rises in the autumn Budget.
Let us examine Labour’s economic record. The party has been in government for just nine weeks and has already carried out nine acts of economic vandalism. It has removed the winter fuel allowance from 10 million pensioners despite promising not to; caved in to its union paymasters by agreeing inflation-busting pay rises; failed to commit to investing 2.5% of national income on defence; cancelled vital infrastructure upgrades on the A27 and A303; cut funding for a vaccine manufacturing plant that would protect our health; imposed Whitehall diktats to concrete over our green spaces; stopped Conservative plans to build 40 new hospitals; scrapped funding for a next-generation supercomputer, undermining our status as a tech superpower; and appointed Labour donors to senior civil service jobs without open competition. Nine weeks, nine acts of economic vandalism.
We know there is more harm to come, with Labour’s autumn Budget set to raise taxes. During the election campaign, Labour promised over 50 times not to raise people’s taxes, but the Labour Government are planning to do just that. It will be hard-working people, pensioners and businesses who will pay the price. May I invite the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to return to the Dispatch Box to rule out raising taxes on working people, such as drivers, savers and business owners? At the same time, will he rule out changing the fiscal rules to allow for more Government borrowing and debt?
Darren Jones
I always welcome the opportunity to return to the Dispatch Box, and I thank the shadow Minister for inviting me to do so. Opposition provides an opportunity for reflection. While he is offering his thoughts on our two months in office—two months of great relief for the British people—does he have anything to say about his 14 years in office before the election?
Alan Mak
I think the answer from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is no, which confirms everything we already knew. It means that the people can never trust Labour with our economy, that Labour will raise taxes and cut investment at every opportunity and that Labour’s honeymoon is well and truly over.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.
House of Commons Commission
Resolved,
That
(1) in pursuance of section 1(2)(d) of the House of Commons (Administration) Act 1978, Rachel Blake be appointed to the House of Commons Commission, and
(2) in pursuance of section 1(2B) of that Act, the appointment of Shrinivas Honap as an external member of the Commission be extended to 30 September 2026.—(Lucy Powell.)
Oral Answers to Questions
Darren Jones Excerpts(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Alice Macdonald (Norwich North) (Lab/Co-op)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
We have committed ourselves to delivering 1.5 million new homes as part of our mission to achieve economic growth across the country, and we have already announced reforms of national planning policy that will help to get Britain building. They include the reintroduction of mandatory housing targets, and the removal of the effective ban on onshore wind in England.
Alice Macdonald
If unlocked, Anglia Square, a significant brownfield site in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich South (Clive Lewis), could provide more than 1,000 homes and many jobs. The last Government failed to support the progression of this important site. Can my right hon. Friend tell me what local authorities such as Norwich city council can expect from this Government’s approach to delivering brownfield sites with partners?
Darren Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for her follow-up question and welcome her to her place. As she knows from the Chancellor and the Deputy Prime Minister, this Government take seriously our target to deliver 1.5 million new homes, and we will look at each and every opportunity across the country to do so. That includes making improvements to the system of developer contributions for community benefit to support the delivery of affordable housing and local infrastructure.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
The Minister knows that the planning system is built on the ability to make millionaires at the stroke of a pen as a result of passing planning permission, which does not necessarily result in developments that are in the best interests of a local community. Surely there is more that the Government can do to ensure that we tip the planning system towards meeting need, rather than greed.
Darren Jones
The issue of so-called hope value was referenced in the Labour party’s manifesto, and the Government will set out further detail in due course.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)
Monica Harding (Esher and Walton) (LD)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Darren Jones)
Water companies are commercial entities. It would therefore not be appropriate for me to comment on that. It is for the company and its investors to resolve their possible issues.
Josh Newbury (Cannock Chase) (Lab)
Darren Jones
I championed this issue in the last Parliament as Chair of the Business and Trade Committee. I am pleased to confirm that I am working with colleagues across Government to make progress, and I will update the House further in due course.
Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)
Darren Jones
The Government are reviewing the new hospitals programme as part of our spending review. We will undertake a full and comprehensive review while continuing to deliver the most advanced and most urgent hospitals in a realistic timeframe.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
Joe Powell (Kensington and Bayswater) (Lab)
A forthcoming Transparency International report has identified 28 contracts worth £4.1 billion that were awarded to parties with direct political connections to the Conservative party, so can the Chancellor update us on the progress in appointing the covid corruption commissioner and whether they will take evidence from corruption campaigners such as Transparency International?
Darren Jones
We are appointing a fixed-term covid fraud commissioner through an open competition that is now running as of this morning. The commissioner will make sure everything is done to return money owed to the taxpayer. It will report to the Chancellor, working with the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, and will report to Parliament in due course.
Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)
The economic potential of the Brigg and Immingham constituency and the wider Humber region is heavily dependent on the renewable energy sector. However, there is a cloud on the horizon, with the future of Scunthorpe steelworks in doubt. Can the Chancellor give an assurance that if there are redundancies at Scunthorpe, there will be a generous package of support for workers and investment through the local authority to redevelop the area?
Emily Darlington (Milton Keynes Central) (Lab)
As Departments are preparing their spending review submissions, will the Chancellor and her team consider allowing the international development budget to be on the same footing as the research and development budget, and looked at over 10 years, so that we can get back to the 0.7% figure? Will she be willing to meet me and a delegation to discuss the benefits of that approach to such an important budget?
Darren Jones
The Government’s spending review is currently under way. All decisions on official development assistance spending will be taken in the round as part of that process. I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend and her colleagues to discuss this issue.