Commons Chamber

Monday 2nd June 2025

(began 3 days, 11 hours ago)

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None Portrait Q4. What steps her Department is taking to help tackle violence against shopworkers in rural areas. (904420)
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Question number four.
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None Portrait Q11. What steps her Department is taking to tackle illegal working. (904428)
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Question number eight Mr Speaker.
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None Portrait Q12. If she will establish a national statutory inquiry into rape gangs. (904429)
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Question 12 Mr Speaker.
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None Portrait Q15. Whether her proposal to increase the standard qualifying period for settlement to ten years would apply retrospectively. (904432)
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Question 15.
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None Portrait Speaker's statement Mr Speaker
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the government published the Strategic Defence Review. Prime minister made a speech and held a press conference in Glasgow. In addition to other media appearances. This follows several days of media briefings. I am disappointed once again the government appears to have breached the principle set out in paragraph 9 of the Ministerial Code. That, when the parliament is in session, the most important announcement of government policy should be made in the first instance in Parliament. I recognise that the timing of policy announcement is not always wholly within the government's control.

There may be a need to coordinate announcement on international trade with trading partners for example, or announcement may be delayed by last-minute legal interventions. But the announcement of the SDR is solely within the government's discretion. It is regrettable that ministers have chosen once again to hold a major media event before coming to the house. This shows complete disregard for the house and for the honourable members. I note that ministers when they were in opposition were not slow to complain when the previous government made major policy announcements outside Parliament.

In fact the SDR was due at Easter so I'm sure another day would not have mattered. I am not responsible for the compliance with the Ministerial Code, that is a matter for the prime minister. It is the government's codes, not the House. But I regard particularly latent breach. I have invited the honourable member for North Devon to consider whether the public administration in to committee might usefully enquire into the matter. And I find it interesting that elected ministers, and elected Members of Parliament before they get the ministerial role.

They should recognise the importance of this House. It is amazing opposition how everything should be discussed on the Floor of the House but when in government, memories are short. And I do hope that I have been here through many SDRs, and one of the major SDRs, we did not even know the effect on everybody's constituency until it was read out that Dispatch Box. What has changed? I will tell you. Disregard for the members who sit on the backbenches.

I am here to defend the backbenches, so please, I hope we have no more of this. What I would say is, it is the government Ministerial Code. They should be
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Leader of the House, if she will make a statement on government announcements outside the House of Commons
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ashamed of not enforcing it. We now come to the Urgent Question. Shadow Leader of the House.

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Thank you Mr Speaker. With that in mind I asked Leader of the House if she will make a statement on government announcements outside the House of Commons.
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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I mean, really, Mr Speaker? Is this the best the leader can do? A kind of eyes speak your wage autotune restoration point she has made in the three previous attempts on which this House has been recently this House has been recently embarrassed and disregarded, just over the last three weeks alone. It is both the hopeless miscue of a is both the hopeless miscue of a response and bordering on a contempt of Parliament itself. Yet another attempt to change the subject, blame others and distract attention from the latest fiasco.

Evidently the the latest fiasco. Evidently the defence of the round is not defence of the round is not important enough to merit making its important enough to merit making its way up a list of priorities in the Government media handouts. Lord Robertson himself, as you have said Mr Speaker, and I'm amazed you had to intervene on the leader on her own remarks, would be ashamed and embarrassed to think this was being done in his name. Just three weeks ago, the leader had to be dragged to the Commons over the government's briefing of the immigration White Paper outside this House.

That came just days after they did the same thing on prisoner cord and the UK US trade deal and of course the Chagos Islands. That followed tuition fees, planning reforms and even the fiscal rules on which you, Mr Speaker, had to reprove and chastise the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Now we have the unhappy sight of the Secretary of State for defence no less extensively briefing the media on the decision to deploy airborne nuclear weapons and build a next- generation submarines before coming to this House.

Maybe they were not important enough, as I say, to merit a mention beforehand. Journalists have been able to read the Strategic Defence Review themselves since 10:30 AM, while the opposition has been prevented until five minutes ago from seeing this document. Precisely in order to avoid parliamentary scrutiny. All this manifest breach of the ministerial code, the Nolan principles and of course Labour's own manifesto. Mistreating the Government's arrogance and complacency, its disdain for this House and the democratic accountability, from the leader and of course the clue is in the title, the Leader of the House, whose job it is to protect and safeguard this House, alongside members.

Unfortunately, the leaders obvious floundering in her response just now make the point far better than I can. I ask when did she know about these announcements? What steps did you take to prevent the media briefings and Adam May to the common Spurs? Will she now apologised not -- for yet another high-handed government decision because she alone is fully

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responsible in this instance to this House? It is nice to see the honourable
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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It is nice to see the honourable gentlemen in this place respecting Parliament today, it is not always the case. As I have said before, I the case. As I have said before, I believe strongly that the government should and has been making the most important announcements to the House when Parliament is in session. We have made more oral statement than the previous government did in the entire last session, I would just remind them. We have made 154 statements in 140 sitting days, compared to their 72 in 101 sitting days.

And we have made many written statement and answer Parliamentary questions. We had the statement on Diego Garcia on the day that the deal was signed. Despite the difficulties with the timing. We had a statement on the US economic deal on the day that that deal was signed. And the Prime Minister updated the House after the EU trade deal. And as I have said, the SDR has now been given to the opposition, is being laid before the House, time for colleagues to scrutinise that and questioned the Defence Secretary on it to this House this afternoon.

The government response to the Sentencing Review, the Parliamentary ombudsman's report into the women's state pension age and the upgrade in the defence spending, as well as many other major announcements, were all made to this House first. I am curious though whether the shadowy raised some of these important issues with the previous government when he was a minister or a backbencher. -- The shadow minister. I remember many occasions when they disrespected this House and I do not remember his voice at that time.

I remember when the Procedure Committee and I and many others wanted the Foreign Secretary, Lord Cameron, to be accountable to this House of Commons, they did nothing about it and I do not remember him saying anything about that. I recall the then culture secretary announcing the end of the BBC and separately, the privatisation of Channel 4, on Twitter, with no intention of coming to the House to explain these major policy changes. The previous Prime Minister, on the first day of a very long recess, announced he was scrapping the Government's net zero targets.

He did not come to the House to explain that. He also announced the scrapping of HS2 during a conference recess and never came to the House to account for it. And one of their other many prime Ministers made major changes to our way of life during COVID, to the media and not to Parliament. Like the 2020 winter lockdown, he did not come here to talk about that or the COVID vaccine rollout. And then when he close the borders and then reopen the borders, to the media, not to Parliament.

Let's not forget that as found by the Supreme Court, Parliament was illegally prorogued by the previous government. And do you remember when the Prime Minister, the previous Prime Minister was found to have misled Parliament? No greater disrespect to Parliament. And rather than upholding the Ministerial Code, time and time again they ignored breaches of it. With reports sitting on the Prime Minister's death, nothing being done about it. We by contrast have strengthened the Ministerial Code. -- Prime Minister's desk.

He laughs from a sedentary position, we have and we have given the independent adviser on the Ministerial Code the power to instigate his own investigations, there we have strengthened it, yes? Not only did they disrespected Parliament they did not have enough for Parliament to do. They had a threadbare King's Speech with banning pedicabs, pedicabs as a pinnacle of their ambition of their last year in government and opposition they seem to be carrying on the same. Hardly turning up for work. They could abuse anyone the opposition days to raise these issues but they did not, they have many other Parliamentary devices at their disposal and they didn't, they were a zombie Parliament and now they are a zombie opposition.

Perhaps next time they want to bring forward energy question they should check their own record before bringing lectures...
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank for that. In issues relating to decisions of ICBs and NHS reorganisation issues, these get raised with me regularly at business questions. She is right to say there was a statement in the house. I can reveal to her, which probably won't be a surprise, the getting rid of NHS England will require primary legislation there will be ample time to consider those issues through the passage of such legislation. But I hear what she says.

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Thank you Mr Speaker. It is not

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Thank you Mr Speaker. It is not just giving statements to the media where this government disrespects the House. Before we went into recess we had a farcical situation recess we had a farcical situation where the shadows Tuesday for education had been forwarded Urgent Question asking for a written Question asking for a written statement to bread earlier in the day the government clearly decided to make a written statement later in to make a written statement later in the day and that the Minister to come and not answer the question for the whole of an Urgent Question the whole of an Urgent Question refusing to say what was the content of the written statements that they had already written and intended to had already written and intended to publish later in the day, sipping to avoid scrutiny for top I ask, what representation she made on that day representation she made on that day to try and ensure that information was given to the house in a timely fashion that could be scrutinised rather than hiding away?

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rather than hiding away? Can I thank you for raising the issue. I think she is talking about the pay review recommendations and the government response to those. They are issues that I take incredibly seriously, to make sure this House has ample time. So I did go back and look at what is usual practice when it comes to those pay review settlements because they were across a range of government departments, a number of sectors not just skills and education, but NHS, MoJ Cabinet Office and other departments.

It is usual practice, and it was under her government as well, that they are done by written Ministerial statements simultaneously in order that all of

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those put out at the same time. I am sure the Sunday papers would
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James Cartlidge Portrait Points of Order James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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Point of order. I seek your advice on the following, as I seek to set the following, as I seek to set the record straight. To be clear, at the weekend, I became aware of an email sent to a group of journalists from the Ministry of Defence, which stated, we will have a reading room open for you from 10:30 AM in horseguards on Monday. You will have the opportunity to read through the full embargoed SDR publication. After seeing that, I emailed the Secretary of State's office on Sunday afternoon and asked, given the journalist with the at 1030, could we be sent a copy at 9am.

They refused. They told us we would get a copy of the statement i.e. An oral statement to the House in the usual way. I then repeatedly asked the Minister if we can get a copy of the SDR, he refused. So I have now been told something else. That members of industry, representatives of industry were allowed to see the SDR at 1030. This is a multibillion pound industry that is highly market sensitive. So can I ask your advice on this point, can I ask your advice on this point, as I understand, the Vote Office has multiple physical hardcopies of the strategic defence review that I have not read at all, my colleagues have not read, any parliamentary colleagues, because it was only given to me as I came into this chamber, so obviously I have not been able to read it.

Journalists have had five hours. It is unacceptable. Can I ask if the Vote Office could be asked to exceptionally release it now?
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, if he will make a statement on the future of the UK’s nuclear deterrent
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Committee. I rise to ask the Secretary of

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I rise to ask the Secretary of State for defence if he will make a statement on the future of the

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U.K.'s nuclear deterrent. Thank you. I am grateful to my
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Luke Pollard Portrait Luke Pollard MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Plymouth Sutton and Devonport, Labour )
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Thank you. I am grateful to my honourable friend for this chance to set out the government's total commitment to the U.K.'s nuclear deterrent which has been the bedrock of our national security for nearly 70 years. The Defence Secretary will shortly be outlining the details of the strategic defence review to the house, and this will be underpinned by our nuclear deterrent. Part of our new print for a new hybrid navy with next-generation dreadnought nuclear armed submarines and up to 12 SSN or because nuclear powered summary and serving alongside best in class warships, support ships and new cutting-edge muscles.

Including the investment set out with a nuclear warhead, this is not only a promise delivered, and most importantly, it is our thing for generations to come. We will also deliver a dividend for well played jobs across the country. With our nuclear warhead program creating and sustaining over 9000 jobs along with thousands more in supply chains to ensure the demands of our nuclear program can be met, we are working closely with industry partners aiming to double defence and nuclear apprentice and graduate intakes.

This will mean 30,000 apprentices over the next 10 years. Part of this historic renewal this deterrent in communities across the country. The first duty of every government is to keep its people safe, and in a more dangerous world, decent security are best achieved through deterrence and best achieved through deterrence and preparedness. As a son myself, can I thank our outstanding sub- mariners who patrol 24 7 to keep us and our allies safe, but we know that threats are increasing and we must act decisively to face down Russian aggression in particular.

Our nuclear deterrent is the ultimate guarantor of our security. The Defence Secretary will momentarily make a statement to give further details, but these are only possible because of the government's historic decision to increase spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2027, the largest sustained increase since the end of the Cold War. This government has the will, the plan and the means to secure the deterrent. We are making Britain secure at home and abroad.
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Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi Portrait Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his response and for granting this. The Minister of defence is looking to purchase American fighter jets capable of deploying tactical nuclear weapons. It is essential that the house receives clarity on the government's nuclear deterrent policy, an issue of critical national importance, but how has the Minister got a hold of such sensitive information on future deterrent plans, and what steps is the government taking to investigate this leak? If the government is pursuing a tactical nuclear capability, this is a huge deal and would represent a significant shift in the U.K.'s nuclear posture.

Indeed, it will be the U.K.'s most significant defence expansion since the Cold War. There are concerns about our sovereignty over nuclear weapons, our current doctrine, and the principle of continuous at sea deterrence. Despite the nuclear enterprise accounting for around 20% of the defence budget, it remains largely outside meaningful Parliament scrutiny, including by our Defence Committee. This must change. I ask how will Parliament be enabled to scrutinise changes to the U.K.'s nuclear programs.

What role U.K.'s nuclear programs. What role they play in this capability? Will we remain control over nuclear weapons. We lower the threshold for use, so what assessment has been made of the risks of escalation? Can the Minister confirm that only the Prime Minister would have authority to use them and only in extreme self defence, and finally, has there been consultation with NATO allies on this potential shift? Decisions of this magnitude must be transparent. The future of our nuclear deterrent must be based on clarity, credibility, and above all, British control.

Thank you.
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James Cartlidge Portrait James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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Thank you. I am grateful to the chairman of the Select Committee for tabling this question. Following in the press last month from the head of the civil service that the UK should consider air launched capabilities, I wrote in the express that our nuclear deterrent needed to be even more resilient in terms of Kaz Dean, but also, potentially by diversifying methods of delivering. The reason I think we should diversify is that we have to recognise the threat posed by Russia in particular, and the fact they have the ability to operate nuclear weapons at the tactical and theatre level to deter effectively.

We must be able to do the same. So, we support moves to widen capabilities on the assumption that we do so working closely with NATO allies, but I suggested the government that they may need our support to carry it through. Eight of his front bench colleagues voted against the deterrent in 2016, including the Deputy Prime Minister. And the Minister for Indo-Pacific and others. In case the Minister was hoping he could rely on the Lib Dems, not only did all but one of the MPs vote against Trident renewal in 2016, but as a condition of supporting the coalition, they shamefully demanded we delay the renewal of nuclear submarines leading us to rely on older boats for far longer, leading to longer maintenance periods and directly contributing to the punishingly long tours of duty for our naval crews.

Having had the privilege to serve as the Minister responsible for nuclear and to chair the board, I understand why the Minister needs to choose his words carefully, they can he recognise that 204 days for patrol is far too long, and in addition to any plan to diversify the deterrent launch method, we need to ensure we have an industrial base with faster maintenance times. When will he expected to be in service? expected to be in service?
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None Portrait
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With permission, I would like to make a statement on the strategic review and I have laid the full 100 and review and I have laid the full 130 page review for this house. I am 130 page review for this house. I am grateful to be able to make this statement on the first day back from statement on the first day back from recess. The world has changed. We recess. The world has changed. We must respond. The SDR is our plan for change for defence.

A plan to meet the threats we face, to step up meet the threats we face, to step up on security and lead in NATO. One on security and lead in NATO. One on security and lead in NATO. One that learns lessons from Ukraine to boost jobs and growth throughout the United Kingdom and a plan to put men United Kingdom and a plan to put men and women of the Armed Forces at the heart of the plans. Better pay, heart of the plans.

Better pay, better kit, better housing. We want to make people safer. I would like to thank those who led the SDR. The politician, the soldier, and the foreign policy expert in their forward. They have put in a huge effort alongside others. This is the first of its kind as an externally led review, a process in which we received 8000 submissions from experts, individuals, organisations and MPs from across the house, including the Defence Secretary.

I thank them all and I thank those in the MoD who have contributed to this. This is not just a governments review. It is Britain's defence review. And so the government endorses the vision, accepts its recommendations which will be implemented. The threats we face and now more serious and less predict Apple than at any time since the end of the Cold War. We face war in Europe, brushing aggression, nuclear risks and daily cyber attacks at home.

We are working in alliance with each other while technology is changing the way war is fought. We are in a new era of threat which demands a new era for UK defence. Since the general election, we have demonstrated that we are a government dedicated to delivering for defence. Committing the increase since the end of the Cold War. £5 billion extra this year. 2.5% of GDP in 2027. The ambition to hit 3% in the next Parliament. There can be no investment without reform.

So we are already driving the deepest reforms in 50 years, and these will ensure clear responsibilities, better delivery, stronger budget control and new efficiencies worth £6 billion in this Parliament. Money, all of which will be reinvested directly into defence. Our Armed Forces will always do what is needed to keep the nation safe in more than 50 countries around the world. But in a more dangerous world, we confirm that we must move to readiness. War fighting readiness means stronger deterrence.

We need stronger deterrence to avoid the huge costs, human and economic that wars create. And we prevent wars by being strong enough to fight and win them. That is what has made NATO the most successful defence alliance in history. We will establish a new hybrid Navy by building dreadnought, orca submarines, cutting-edge warships and new autonomous vessels. Our carriers will carry the first hybrid air wings in Europe. We will develop the RAF, upgraded typhoons and autonomous fighters to defend Britain's skies and to be able to strike anywhere in the world.

And we will make the British Army 10 times more lethal by combining future technology and autonomy and AI with the heavy metal of tanks and the heavy metal of tanks and artillery. For too long our army has been asked to do more with less. We inherited a long-run recruitment crisis. 14 Tory years of cuts to full-time troops. Reversing this decline will take time but we are acting to stem the loss now and aiming to increase the British army to at least 76 full-time soldiers in the next Parliament.

For the first time in a generation, we are a government that want the regular number of soldiers to rise. This is a government that will protect our island home. We will do this with new funding to missile defences and by preparing legislation to improve defence readiness. A countries Armed Forces are only as strong as the industry that stands behind them. So this creates a new partnership with industry, with innovators, and with investors. We will make defence an engine for growth.

An engine for growth to create jobs and increase prosperity in every nation and every region of the UK. Take our nuclear enterprise. We will commit £15 billion in investment into the sovereign war helm programme, supporting 9000 jobs. We will establish continuous submarine development for investments in Barrow and Derby that will allow us to produce a submarine every 18 months, allowing us to grow our nuclear attack submarine fleet for up to 12 submarines, supporting more than 20,000 jobs.

We will invest £6 million in this Parliament, including 46 new munitions factories and up to 7000 new long-range weapons supporting nearly 2000 jobs. The lives of workers in Barrow, Derby where I was with the prime minister this morning are being transformed, not just by this defence investment, but by the pride and purpose that comes with work, that comes with defence work. And in the coming years, more communities and more working people will benefit from the defence dividend that this brings.

Ukraine also tells us that whoever gets new technology into the hands of their Armed Forces fastest will have the advantage. So, We Will Pl, Britain at the leading-edge of innovation in NATO we will double investment into autonomous systems this Parliament. We will invest more than £1 billion to integrate our Armed Forces through a new digital targeting web, and we will finance £400 million UK defence innovation organisation. To ensure that Britain gains the maximum benefit from what we in and what we produce in this country, we will create a new exports office in the MoD, driving exports to our allies and driving growth we set a new vision, a new framework for defence investment.

The work to confirm a new defence investment plan superseding the last government's equipment plan will be completed in the autumn. It will ensure our forces get what they need when they need it. The plan will be deliverable, be affordable, consider things alongside capabilities. It will seize the opportunities of advanced tech and will seize the opportunities to grow the British economy. And as we lose the national service generation, fewer families across this country have a direct connection to the Armed Forces.

So we must do more to reconnect the nation with those defenders. We will increase the number of cadet by 30%. We will introduce a gap year scheme for college leavers, and we will develop a new reserve by 2030. We must also renew the nations contract with those who serve. We were awarded the biggest pay increase in over 20 years, and inflation busting increase this year, and now I have announced the £7 billion of funding this Parliament for military accommodation, including 1.5 billion of new money for rapid work to deal with the scandal of military family This SDR is the first defence review in a generation and a transformation in nuclear defence.

It will end 14 years of hollowing out in our Armed Forces and instead we will see investment increased, the Navy expanded, the army grown, the Air Force upgraded, readiness restored, NATO strengthened, the nuclear deterrent guaranteed and technology developed. Jobs created in every nation and region of this country. The strategic defense review will make Britain safer, more secure at
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James Cartlidge Portrait James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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In responding to my point of order, the Secretary of State said that when he was in opposition 'we were not offered a briefing, we have no advance copy of the defence

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review.' Please. It has not been a good

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Please. It has not been a good day so far and I do not want it

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interrupted any more. He said this occurred when I was

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He said this occurred when I was Minister at the MoD, in March 2023, before I became a Minister, he was invited to a reading room in the invited to a reading room in the morning of publication. While the defence command paper refresh 2023 when I was Minister when he said he did not get a copy, I can confirm, did not get a copy, I can confirm, happy to substantiate this, the hardcopy was dropped off at his hardcopy was dropped off at his office at 9:30 AM that morning.

I asked for a copy repeatedly on Sunday and Monday and earlier this morning, we were not given one. I have not even read the document and I'm the shadow Secretary of State. some of the biggest defence companies in this land were given copies at 8 AM this morning. They have had hours to read it. I have not read it at all. This is meant to be a democracy, meant to be a parliament, how can we hold them to account? Whilst they may have tried to hide the document from as far as long as possible today, they cannot hide what has happened in plain sight, total unravelling of the strategic defence review because they have not got a plan to fund it.

And SDR without the funding is an empty wish list. The ships and submarines it talks of our a fantasy fleet. The reviewers were clear in the Telegraph today that the commitment to three percent establish the affordability of the plan. On Thursday the Defence Secretary said to the times that reaching three percent was a certainty. But by the weekend he had backtracked to three percent being an ambition. And he was unable to say when three percent would be reached.

Why? Because the Treasury have not approved a plan to pay for it. The Secretary of State and I have been Treasury ministers and defence ministers. He knows as well as I do that this -- how this works. For the Treasury to fund a plan it needs cuts to existing programs. So needs cuts to existing programs. So this SDR has dodged the... Can he confirm the investment plan in the confirm the investment plan in the autumn will set out the plan to get to three percent? Details we should have had today in the SDR.

Can you also confirm that the total budget for new measures announced in this SDR over the next five years is less than £10 million? Less than we will be spending to leaseback our own based on the ago Garcia -- Diego Garcia. The government are able to -- unable to guarantee the money we need, but they are able to guarantee the money for Diego Garcia. What percentage of the payment to Chagos will be met by the MoD? Let me suggest an alternative path, guaranteeing three percent and doing so this Parliament, not the next.

Secondly, getting a grip on our welfare budget rather than competing with reform to expand it. Saving billions by scrapping their crazy Chagos plan. That is the plan to back up our Armed Forces and make the country stronger, from the country that last spent three country that last spent three percent in 1996. It was a Labour government that came in in 1997, I do not know what they are laughing about. The shame of this SDR unravelling is this was an extraordinary opportunity to overhaul Armed Forces in a world of growing threats.

Yesterday we saw the Ukrainians demonstrating how profoundly what has changed, and yet it is true, some of the best long- range attack drones used in Ukraine, have been built by UK defence SMEs. We are incredibly well placed to be a leading nation in the development of Armed Forces. How many drones has the government purchased for the military since the general election? Three. They have purchased three reconnaissance drones since the general election and not a single attack drone.

For the past year the Treasury used the SDR to effectively put ready procurement on hold. Shameful when we need to rearm and face at scale. At least the Secretary of State for defence knows how the rest of the country feels, let down by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. If there is one capability that matters more than any other, it is people. We agree with the importance of recruitment and retention which is why I did so much of that work to buy back the defence Estates; rebuild it and rebuild substandard defence accommodation.

The army is down by 1,000 since the election. If this government really wants to address recruitment and retention, would it not be total madness to scrap the legislation protecting a Northern Ireland veterans from a new era of ambulance chasing... Nothing could be more damaging for morale than to pursue our veterans for the crime of serving this country and giving us safe from terrorism. The Secretary of State says he wants to send a strong message to Moscow, but the messages here sending -- he is sending our week.

Surrounding the -- surrendering the fishing grounds, surrendering the Chagos islands to the delight of China and Iran, and surrendering army veterans to the lawyers. After so much hype, producing and SDR which is underfunded and underwhelming. The Armed Forces deserve a lot better than this.
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John Healey Portrait Rt Hon John Healey MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, Labour)
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I see the way the world is changing. I see the way the Chancellor is fixing the economic foundations after 14 years of failure under the Conservative government. I have to say to the House, I have no doubt we will meet our ambition to hit three percent of spending on defence in the next Parliament. It is something that the Prime Minister this morning reinforced. We said the SDR can be delivered because of our commitment to 2.5 percent was built into the terms of reference.

He said this morning we are committed to spending what we need to deliver this review. what we need to deliver this review. He talks about unfunded promises. He knows about unfunded promises. His drawing strategy was unfunded. It was 12 pages, more pictures than words. His munitions strategy was unfunded and it was even unpublished. His commitment, his party's commitment to 2.5 percent on defence was never in government budgets. It was a gimmick launched four weeks before they called the election. They do the Mulberry deliver.

-- They did the, we deliver. On Diego Garcia, I will say this to the shadow Defence Secretary, this deal is a great investment in the defence and intelligence base that we share with the Americans. It is essential for activities that cannot be undertaken elsewhere. That we do not undertake with any other nation. It is a deal worth 20 percent of the defence budget. The US backed the deal, NATO backed the deal, Five Eyes Baxendale, Australia Baxendale, India backed the deal, how have the opposition got themselves on the opposition got themselves on the wrong side? As far as this SDR goes, this is the defence moment of a generation.

With rates increasing, defence spending rising, we have now a plan for transformation. The plan that will link the best of advanced technology with their heavy metal of our platforms. A plan that will drive the defence dividend to increase jobs and business support across the country and a plan that puts people in defence right at the heart of our defence plans for the future, with increased pay, better housing and better kit to do the job to deter adversaries in the future.
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Helen Maguire Portrait Helen Maguire MP (Epsom and Ewell, Liberal Democrat)
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next 10 years and beyond. next 10 years and beyond. Of the statement however I am Of the statement however I am disappointed I only received the SDR at 330 after the journalists. We have entered a new era, defined by international instability, geopolitical conflicts and global geopolitical conflicts and global uncertainty. Not since the Cold War have we faced such a myriad of have we faced such a myriad of threats. Putin threatening NATO's threats.

Putin threatening NATO's security. The rising threats posed by China as well as states like Iran by China as well as states like Iran and North Korea. These threats pose a once in a generation risk to the a once in a generation risk to the country. I welcome the government's readiness to accept the recommendations in today's strategic defence review. It is staggering we still do not have an answer to the question of where is the money coming from to fund these ambitions? It is a shocking this without the money to pay for it.

The government has flip-flopped on whether we can expect defence spending to rise to three percent of GDP, the figure in which the proposals of the SDR are premised, putting the cart before the horse in funding the nation's defence sends the wrong message to Putin and other adversaries. Will the Minister commit to holding cross-party talks on how to reach three percent? Why welcome the announcement for military housing funding and repairs, fixing the recruitment crisis and doing more for service personnel requires more.

Will they legislate to ensure military homes are brought under the Decent Homes Standard? It is disappointing despite having had 11 months to consider how to stem the decline of soldiers from the army, the government has sat on its hands. The declining tree numbers has declined. If the government is serious about delivering for defence, does he agree that reversing the troop cuts must begin reversing the troop cuts must begin
17:31
John Healey Portrait Rt Hon John Healey MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, Labour)
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I welcome what has been said on Ukraine. She will recognise that this government has been supported by all parties in this house with support provided on the illegal invasion. She will also recognise that since July, we stepped up still further with support for Ukraine. I hope she will recognise that we are looking at European policy more widely. Stepping in to convene, and I chaired the first Ukraine support group that, alongside the French, we are convening the 30 odd nations looking at planning for securing a long-term peace in Ukraine with a ceasefire that can be secured.

This week it NATO, I will be continuing those discussions with defence ministers. On the SDR, this is a vision for the next 10 years and beyond. It can be delivered within the spending commitments that the government has made. The Prime Minister has underlined that a baked into the terms of reference. They have been confirmed by reviewers, and as he said, we will spend what he needs to deliver this spending review. And I am totally confident that we will meet the ambition of 3% in the next Parliament.

On military homes. She is right that for years, the scandal of making the families of those who served live in substandard homes with leaking roofs and doors is something we can change. We have actively started to do that. For the first time this year, we have bought back and controlled 36,000 family military homes. For the first time last month, we have set out a consumer charter with the basics of what people have to expect from the MoD as their landlord, and we have confirmed as well an extra £1.5 billion over this Parliament that we will use to deal with the worst family homes and we will be able to start developing long-term, building the homes we need for our forces and in the country, and use a huge asset for this country, that MoD land offers.
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Judith Cummins Portrait Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)
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I thank the honourable gentleman for notice of that point of order. The House will be aware of the importance Mr Speaker and all occupants of this chair place on statements being made to the House first with adequate notice being given. He has put his point on record. We now move to the

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Short-term let planning permission bill. Second Reading what day?

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Friday fourth July.

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Friday fourth July. Friday fourth July. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day. Bus services number two Bill.

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Now. Minister to move second reading. Secretary of State.

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Secretary of State. Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that this bill now be read a move that this bill now be read a second time. I would like to start by thanking my friends, the Minister of State for rail, for being an of State for rail, for being an excellent advocate and custodian of this bill as it made its way through the other place. As someone who the other place. As someone who started his career on London's world-famous red buses, they could have been no better person in the have been no better person in the country than the noble Lord Hendy to have kickstarted this government must reform journey.

I'm proud to call him my friend and I'm grateful every day for his wise counsel, Frank advice, and good humour. Madam Deputy Speaker, what we saw in the other place, and what I hope we may be able to secure in this House is constructive cross-party support. Because we all recognise how buses connect us to the things that matter most. Work and school, friends and family, essential services, or just family, essential services, or just the weekly shop. Billions of bus journeys each year, equivalent to over 100 every second of every day.

And the difference between vibrant communities and boarded-up high communities and boarded-up high streets. Between aspiration and isolation. Between getting on and isolation. Between getting on and being forced to give up. This bill represents years of work, both in represents years of work, both in opposition and now in government. To opposition and now in government. To discard the failed 14 year model of deregulation in favour of putting deregulation in favour of putting passenger needs, reliable services, and local accountability at the heart of this industry.
18:58
Heidi Alexander Portrait Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I'm grateful to the honourable Lady for giving way. On that point, I wholeheartedly agree with her on the importance of buses when it comes to connectivity. I note in the bill that it talks very much about socially necessary services. It would be really helpful if we had a better understanding of what the definition is beyond what my interpretation is. And on that specific area, can we have greater assurances that we will have no loss in our bus services?

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What we will be doing through this Bill is giving Local Transport Authorities the power to determine socially necessary local services. That relates to access to That relates to access to employment, jobs, things like health facilities, education. That power facilities, education. That power will lie with local authorities, and it will be for them to determine. I will make some progress. Before I will make some progress. Before I come onto the key measures of this bill, I would like to briefly set the context.

While it may be the context. While it may be tempting for me to lay the blame for the current state of buses entirely the current state of buses entirely at the feet of the last government, that wouldn't be right nor fair. They too inherited a broken deregulated system which forced passengers to navigate multiple operators on similar routes but with different tickets. They too faced declining patronage, with 1.8 and a few attorneys outside London last year compared to 1986.

And to their credit, they tried to fix it. The National Bus Strategy, Bus Service Improvement Plans, and greater powers to mayors. They were all steps in the right direction to But in some areas, such as franchising, they did not go far enough. So this Bill will not only build on previous reforms but will go further, much further, in fixing the faults still holding back from meeting the needs of local people. And I hope Honourable members on all sides will see the merits of the approach that we are taking.

After all, we have all heard from constituents of jobs not taken, of opportunities missed because bus services are too unreliable or don't operate on Sundays or don't cater

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for night-time shifts. I thank the right honourable Edgar giving way, of course, in Edgar giving way, of course, in London we have been benefiting for a long time from better bus services than the rest of the country, I than the rest of the country, I wholeheartedly welcome her desire to level this out. We also are floating bus stops. I know it is a balancing bus stops. I know it is a balancing needs of cyclists and others but if you are blind, visually impaired or you are blind, visually impaired or encumbered by a buggy, getting off a bus at a floating bus stop is really dangerous.

And she outline what plan she has to tackle this issue across

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she has to tackle this issue across the country? I am very grateful to my right

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I am very grateful to my right honourable friend and she may know that in this Bill we are committing to design guidance for local to design guidance for local authorities that we will produce some guidance, so local authorities can look at what is best practice. She may be aware that in the other She may be aware that in the other place around Minister did make clear we are committing to a non-statutory pause on the type of floating bus stops where a passenger would have to like to directly into a cycle lane.

I hope that gives her some reassurance.

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Again, can I thank the Secretary

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Again, can I thank the Secretary of State for the when she is doing on this area. Just to follow on on the point around floating bus stops and I'm pleased to hear that guidance, that the clause in the builder set out guidance that will builder set out guidance that will need to be produced to enable floating bus stops to be safe and accessible. -- In the Bill. Many blind and partially sighted people, including myself, have experienced including myself, have experienced so many challenges with them.

Can we really get a proper assessment done on the safety of floating bus stops, on the safety of floating bus stops, to ensure that no passenger that uses a bus, whether to go to work or to a health appointment, will to a health appointment, will experience the challenges that currently so many are facing in trying to navigate floating bus stops?

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stops? We will be looking at this issue very carefully. And I am very conscious of the needs of the visually impaired community. I am also very conscious of the needs to protect cyclists and pedestrians on our roads. I am keen that we look at this in the round. I'm going to make a little bit more progress, if I may, then I will be happy to take interventions later. I was talking about the problems with bus services that are unreliable, that don't operate at the weekend, that perhaps do not cater for individuals working night shifts.

Of course, we all know that each of those stories is a life frustrated. But taken together, they constitute an anthology of wasted potential. Of living standards and growth how back. It is why improving bus services underpins our Plan for Change. And it is why, despite difficult choices made across government, we confirmed over £1 billion of funding at the last Budget to protect vital routes and keep affairs down. I'm not going to give way to the honourable lady

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again. -- Keep fares down. On the subject of funding, does she recognise that constituencies like mine in North Herefordshire, rural constituencies, had particular rural constituencies, had particular needs and that the funding needs to recognise extra costs associated with rurality. And also demographic with rurality. And also demographic demands. Young people, older people, demands. Young people, older people, people on low incomes. All of whom rely more on buses. Will those

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rely more on buses. Will those factors be taken into account in the funding mechanisms for bus services? I can reassure the honourable lady we have taken those things into account in the way that we have allocated funding in this year. If I may move on now to set out our may move on now to set out our approach. Funding, even record funding, without reform, means funding, without reform, means throwing good money after bad. And throwing good money after bad.

And that brings me onto today's bill. Our reforms are not ideological. Regardless of what some might say. This is not about public ownership versus private enterprise. It is about enabling more people to use the bus. It is about ensuring those services are safer, more reliable

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and more accessible. And it is about harnessing the best of devolution. I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for giving way and for bringing this Bill forward. Sarah, one of my Bill forward. Sarah, one of my constituents, is here today. And her work with the national the blind and the UK Street access campaign has the UK Street access campaign has really demonstrated the difficulty that blind and partially sighted people have in accessing buses. And they can't take the choice that others take, which is pass your driving test as soon and you get to driving test as soon and you get to 70, so you can get to your local college, your local school or your college, your local school or your local hospital appointment.

-- Get to 17. I want to highlight the fantastic campaign they have been running and please ask that this running and please ask that this Bill makes it very clear to local authorities that they must work to ensuring that all buses are accessible, not just for people with sight impairments, but also for those people who need to access the bus in a wheelchair. Like my friends who cannot travel together and are often whizzed past by the driver and left to wait longer than the rest of us.



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I'm grateful to my honourable friend for making that point so friend for making that point so powerfully. And I can reassure her that this Bill will introduce a duty that this Bill will introduce a duty upon local transport authorities to consult with disabled passengers and disability organisations before disability organisations before making a franchise scheme. It will standardise the current disability training requirements that operators will need to meet and it will new will need to meet and it will new powers to government to require operators to record data on that training.

Which taken together, I think should represent a really positive improvement in the way in positive improvement in the way in which the bus network is designed, to ensure everyone can make use of to ensure everyone can make use of it. I'm going to make a little bit of progress. I was talking about the way in which this Bill is designed way in which this Bill is designed to harness the best of devolution. That does mean transferring power away from central government and operators and towards local leaders.

Those people who know their areas best. And we will give them the tools to deliver bus services communities can rely on. Whether it is franchising that has worked so well in London or jersey, local authority bus companies that arrived in Nottingham and Reading or the excellent examples of enhanced partnerships in Brighton and Norfolk, I am clear that one size does not fit all. -- Jersey. Instead this Bill will expand the options available to local authorities, with each area getting the bus service that is right for them, while safeguarding the needs of passengers, to collate the most vulnerable.



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I know the Secretary of State is committed to ensuring that buses are environmentally friendly, that they achieve their net zero targets that achieve their net zero targets that we all wish to see happening. Buses in an area of Northern Ireland are one of those organisations, they have a new leading hydrogen bus have a new leading hydrogen bus producers. They are safe, reliable, cost-effective transportation. Has the Secretary of State been able the Secretary of State been able doubt any discussions with these buses, who has buses in London and elsewhere across the United Kingdom, elsewhere across the United Kingdom, to ensure that innovative to ensure that innovative technology, Right Buses, is technology, Right Buses, is something everyone in the United Kingdom and Ireland should take advantage of.



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advantage of. The right honourable gentlemen is right to highlight the technology that Right Buses have... Am I right honourable friend has met with them and visited their facility as well. I would like to explain how we are going about fixing the broken franchising process. It cannot be right that after being frustrated at every turn, it took me a Andy Burnham years to bring just one bus under public control. -- Me a Andy Burnham. With bus services in Greater Manchester now part of the Bee Network, usage is up 14 %.

With revenues and punctuality also moving in the right direction. Franchising remains too complex. Proposed schemes need to jump through a myriad of hoops and they still require my consent to proceed, which is odd, to say the least. The idea that I understand more passengers in Leicestershire or Cornwall need than their local leaders is thought the birds. In December, we opened up franchising to every local authority and now through this Bill, we will further streamline the process, making it simpler for franchise schemes to be granted and assessed.



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She referred earlier about laying certain statutory duties on County Council is. When she is considering that, will she consider including in that, will she consider including in those duties the maintenance of companion bus passes for people with companion bus passes for people with learning difficulties who cannot learning difficulties who cannot travel on their own? It is not much good then having a free bus pass if they cannot take a companion with them. And will she also join with me in expressing our sadness and commiseration over the recent commiseration over the recent passing of Mr Andrew Wickham, who for more than 40 years was in the for more than 40 years was in the transport industry, over a decade as managing director of Go South Coast, managing director of Go South Coast, including blue star buses, and who I

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always found a marvellously attentive correspondence and someone who worked almost to the very end. I'm very grateful to the right

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I'm very grateful to the right honourable gentlemen for that intervention. He gives me the intervention. He gives me the opportunity to place on record my thanks to Andrew Wickham. I had the privilege of representing the constituency of Swindon South and he ran the Swindon bus company. And he was the epitome of professionalism was the epitome of professionalism was the epitome of professionalism and kindness, to me, not only as a member of Parliament, but also when I was a candidate.

I would like to pass on my condolences to his family, his friends and his colleagues. He also raises a very colleagues. He also raises a very fair point about the importance of companion travel for individuals who are travelling with disabilities. He are travelling with disabilities. He will know that the ability to determine extras to the English National concessionary fare scheme is a decision that is taken by local authorities. I was talking about our desire to make a franchising system simpler.

Of course, this model will not work everywhere. And so that is why this Bill also strengthens enhanced partnerships and removes the ideological ban on establishing new local authority bus companies. Furthermore, by giving local authorities the power to design and pay bus operator grants in their areas, this bill gives greater protections for socially necessary local services. Securing those lifeline roots that keep communities connected.

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I'm grateful for her giving way. In our communities, we have nearly In our communities, we have nearly full employment lots of people on extremely low wages. The bus service extremely low wages. The bus service from Kemble -- from Kendal before from Kemble -- from Kendal before the bus cap came in was the second highest in the whole country, costing 1/4 of a person salary to get to work. Will she ensure, as she get to work. Will she ensure, as she insureds devolution happens and franchising is done in a way fit for purpose in every, she does not purpose in every, she does not abdicate her responsibility for the

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abdicate her responsibility for the funding of the bus fare cap, so people like my constituents can actually get wet. The right honourable gentlemen will be aware there is a spending will be aware there is a spending review under way but I can confirm to him that I fully appreciate the importance of an affordable and importance of an affordable and accessible bus route. He will be aware that there was zero funding aware that there was zero funding allocated to fund the Bust a cap...

We stepped in with the three pounds there. While it only applies to certain journeys, because people who travel will be using a travel card for a week or a month, I understand the importance his constituents and others will attach to that cap.

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I want to congratulate her and her team, including the Minister and the other place, for bringing this Bill before the House. Since 2010, Bill before the House. Since 2010, we have seen 2 million fewer bus miles ridden in Hampshire. I have miles ridden in Hampshire. I have heard in many areas the stories, as the Secretary of State has set out, of missed appointments, work shifts of missed appointments, work shifts and social engagements as a result of poor service. Could she just of poor service.

Could she just outlined to the House and confirm this Bill will give the opportunity this Bill will give the opportunity for every part of England to take back control of their bus services? back control of their bus services? Could you also explain what will happen in terms of the devolution happen in terms of the devolution process and whether the powers will pass to the new neuro tree authorities or mayoral authorities or that yet to be decided? --

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Unitary authorities. My honourable friend is this advocate for his constituents. I know the importance he places on our services. The local transport authority under new devolution arrangements will be part of local government where these new powers lie. It is for the local Transport Authority to decide whether franchising or an enhanced partnership is the route for them to deliver the services that their communities need. Running buses should always be about serving passengers. I would like to see something about safety and what we are doing through this Bill to put the needs of passengers first.

We want to keep passengers safe at any time of the day or night and at any point in their journey. Yet waiting at bus stops or when on board. That is why this Bill includes powers for local transport authorities to crackdown on fare dodgers and tackle antisocial behaviour, requirements for drivers of school services to pass enhanced criminal record checks, closing an existing loophole and mandatory training for bus staff to help tackle crime where it is to help tackle crime where it is

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I want to return briefly to the socially necessary services that you socially necessary services that you mention. There are two issues in my constituency which are of great constituency which are of great importance. The first relates to school only buses, and the fact that school only buses, and the fact that they are often more expensive than regular services. And the second relates to operators who tell me relates to operators who tell me that the current SEND transport model is unsustainable, and children with special educational needs and with special educational needs and disabilities are being left with a poorer service.

Will the bill seek

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to address those concerns? I would say to my honourable friend that there are not specific criteria and provisions in this bill but I can assure him that me and my but I can assure him that me and my ministerial colleagues are very much aware of the issues that he raises. While at school only bus provision is provided in a slightly different way, I would be happy to speak with him about the particular issues in his constituency. I would also like to say something about accessibility, for many, buses are a route to a better more independent life.

Yet the current patchwork quilt of standards and regulations can further disable rather than enable passengers. That will change through this bill. With local authorities now required to produce a bus network accessibility plan as well as to consult disability organisations and changes to services, as I said earlier. New statutory guidance will make stopping places more accessible, this includes floating bus stops, as came up earlier. After listening to concerns, we will press pause on those perceived to be poorly designed.



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I thank the Minister for giving way. Part of the issue we've had in Harlow has been caused by the Harlow has been caused by the redevelopment of the sustainable transport corridors. Part of the transport corridors. Part of the issue is that bus stops are being forced to move and so they are less accessible. So we ensure that even though it may be a temporary bus stop it still has to fit the criteria?

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criteria? I think the bill will improve the ability of Local Transport ability of Local Transport Authorities to deal with that precisely with that sort of situation. I would like to make some situation. I would like to make some progress, I'm conscious of a number of people who want to speak I would of people who want to speak I would like to allow as many people as possible to make contributions. On net zero, I would like to say net zero, I would like to say something on our commitment to meeting those targets.

This bill will restrict new zero emission buses from no earlier than January 2030. I know the Minister for local transport is already speaking with industry, not just about securing an orderly transition that the opportunity for British bus manufacturers to meet new demand both at home and abroad. Finally, during the passage of this bill in the other place, there were also several non-government amendments added to the bill. That is why I wish to clarify that I was unable to make a statement of compatibility with the European Convention of Human Rights.

This was not the result of a government clause but rather clause 40 which was a non- rather clause 40 which was a non- government amendment. This required recording violent behaviour on buses and sharing that data with the Local Transport Authority. It also requires consultation with trade unions on staff safety. The personal data requirements are incompatible with ECHR obligations. As such, this government will seek to address this matter as the build progresses.

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I'm grateful. She mentioned the

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I'm grateful. She mentioned the Minister for local government is taking results with your net zero side of this. I was delighted to come into my constituency to see the come into my constituency to see the work of Right Bus there with a repurposed diesel buses. Can you provide reassurance that those buses provide reassurance that those buses that are repurposed will also be eligible, as net zero buses, and potentially eligible for MHCLG funding for decarbonisation of the bus fleet in the future?

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bus fleet in the future? I would need to write him to confirm that if I may, but I confirm that if I may, but I understand why he is very keen to raise it. In conclusion, I would say raise it. In conclusion, I would say this, for too long, and in too many places, integrated bus network has places, integrated bus network has been symbolic of wider national decline. With each poor service reinforcing a sense of things not working as they should.

That ends now. This bill represents a brighter future for bus travel. For the first time in 40 years, we are taking back control of our buses. Transferring power from operators to local leaders, and from whiteboards to the town hall where it belongs. I truly believe that the transport needs of my constituents in Swindon are different from passengers in Scunthorpe or Southend. That is why buses will rightly look and feel different across the country. Reflecting the identity and priorities of local areas.

This bill is just the start of the journey. Throughout this passage and following Royal assent, we will continue to work with the bus industry, acid groups, and colleagues in both houses, as we set out further regulations on the standards we and millions of daily passengers expect. Better buses around the corner. Increased reliability, greater accountability, and services passengers can finally depend on. I commend this bill to the House.

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The question is that the bill be read the second time. I called the Shadow Minister.

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Shadow Minister. Madam Deputy Speaker, buses are the most popular form of public transport in the country. Carry transport in the country. Carry passengers on twice as many journeys as trains and fountains. Nationwide. as trains and fountains. Nationwide. As the secretary of state alluded to in her opening remarks, from the centre of London to the remotest centre of London to the remotest areas they can get teenagers to school, allow pensioners to visit friends and connect people to jobs they would not otherwise be able to take.

They keep town centres alive, connect our communities, and ensure connect our communities, and ensure that those with mobility issues, as well as the most vulnerable, get

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around. I will give way. I thank him for giving way. I was curious, buses are so important as curious, buses are so important as he rightly says, why are so few of

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his backbench colleagues lining up to speak in this important debate? Because there is no division
19:23
Gareth Bacon Portrait Gareth Bacon MP (Orpington, Conservative)
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Because there is no division later on. It is not because nobody cares it is because there won't be division. The previous Conservative division. The previous Conservative government recognised how vital local bus services are in keeping communities connected. From 2020 until we left office last summer, the previous government committed £4.5 billion to support the independent bus services pleading more than £2 billion to help local authorities implement their Bus Service Improvement Plans. Most importantly, that would introduce the £2 fare cap.

This insured travel remained affordable and accessible.

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Just to be absolutely clear, there are those on this side of the there are those on this side of the house that do want to ask questions of the Transport Secretary but she seemed a little unwilling. I would seemed a little unwilling. I would like to ask my honourable Friend, and the specific point of fares and and the specific point of fares and affordability, can he help try and make sure that within this bill make sure that within this bill there is something to ensure that passengers, which is to this bill should be focused on, see value for money because in the West Midlands, under the plan of the mayor to take under the plan of the mayor to take back control of our buses, he is taking money from our pockets and increasing fares by 8.6%.



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increasing fares by 8.6%. Yes indeed. I say that we are

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Yes indeed. I say that we are very interested in doing this in the other place to ensure the key focus of this bill is solely on passengers. By maintaining the 2 pounds bus fare, we shall buses remain accessible and affordable to as many people as possible. We have raised concerns here and in the other place about the impact of Labour's decision to scrap the £2 cap and rraise it to £3 for the most vulnerable. This is bad for those in work who will be worse off because of that jobs tax was not bad for pensioners who have seen their energy bills rise despite repeated promises from Labour to The energy costs by £300.

Turning to the substance of the bill before us,

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I would like to thank you for giving way. This is one of the things that feel so pernicious about things that feel so pernicious about scrapping the National £2 bus fare scrapping the National £2 bus fare cap. Certain parts of the country were given long-term settlement were given long-term settlement under the last government have been able to maintain that cap but in large part the country they have not been able to. Does it not go to show that actually in the last government we were prepared to work with all sorts of little parties but this

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sorts of little parties but this feels pernicious because it is targeting areas which have not been traditionally Labour supporting? Is always my honourable friend

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Is always my honourable friend gets to the heart of the matter. I agree with him. I would like to make one thing abundantly clear from the outset, we do not pose franchising outset, we do not pose franchising in principle. When implemented properly franchising can be a powerful mechanism for addressing transport challenges and providing the quality of services that passengers rightly demand and expect. But this bill in its original form does not do that. The Secretary of State has made the point, and I agree, it is to acknowledge that the bill does not mandate franchising everywhere which is a sensible step.

But it does not prioritise passengers will stop there's nothing in it that guarantees improvement in service standards. The truth is this bill appears to be driven by political nostalgia. It is in many ways a thinly veiled attempt to recreate

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the municipal model of the pre-1986 era without fully considering the financial and operational realities of today. I am grateful to my honourable

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I am grateful to my honourable

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I am grateful to my honourable friend for doing way. The bus passenger group in my constituency have raised the issue of Sunday have raised the issue of Sunday services either not existing or starting so late that people cannot starting so late that people cannot get to work. Or bus services been put on in the summer during the tourist season but not being tourist season but not being available in the winter. And of poor connections for rural communities. Does my honourable friend share my concern that without additional concern that without additional funding, this bus bill will not solve these problems?

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solve these problems? Yes, my noble friend is completely correct and I will come completely correct and I will come to that. We do oppose a particular assumption that underlines his legislation, that the public sector is a solution to everything. Some local authorities may have expertise and resources to successfully franchise passenger bus services, but let's be clear, many do not. The very central premise of the bill, giving every local authority the unchecked power implement franchising regardless of their resources or capacity is not an act of empowerment, and by removing the need for the Secretary of State to consent to franchising as required under the previous government, this government is eliminating the crucial safeguards.

With respect to honourable Friend I won't because I'm conscious of lots of members. Safeguards are designed to ensure franchising serves the passengers and the taxpayers who pay for them. The expertise required to design and manage is not readily available in most councils. That is why the 2017 act limited franchising powers by local authorities. What is with the scale, resources, democratic mandate to take on such response abilities. The legislation we enacted paving the way for mayoral combined authorities to issue franchising models is also crucial.

It required those authorities to demonstrate franchising and deliver genuine benefits for passengers. Removal of that requirement for the legislation is concerning. It gives a view from the other side of the house at the public sector is infallible. It is not a view I share. Don't take my word for it, take it from Centre for Cities, which make clear that expanding franchising could expose councils to serious financial risks. After decades of deregulated services, many transport authorities simply lack the skills and capacity to manage a compressive bus network.

Yet would be financially responsible if an undertaking goes wrong. It's not just hypothetical concerns, the experience in Greater Manchester illustrates how easily costs can spiral leaving the taxpayer out of pocket. Secular state will no doubt be aware that initial projections published by the way to Manchester combined authority transport revenue budgets put the cost of transitioning to a franchise system at £134.5 million for 2024/25. The figure has since ballooned. Ongoing operational costs and are forecast to exceed 226 mil in pounds per year by 2025/26.

This is a 68% increase in one year. Over four years the scheme could cost far more than anticipated. The house will know the annual level of bus subsidy in London last year amounted to £646 million. Greater London is the most heavily populated and most economically active area in the country. It also has the highest level of bus use, yet even with all these advantages, it still requires that level of annual subsidy just to

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When he talks about smaller local

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When he talks about smaller local invitees and the increased risk they face through franchising, he could be talk about my local authority, be talk about my local authority, the Isle of Wight Council. Does he the Isle of Wight Council. Does he see anything in this Bill that is really appealing to small unitary authorities or is this really just a bill or bigger metropolitan areas and large towns?

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and large towns? The risk of this Bill, I would

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The risk of this Bill, I would say to my honourable friend, is it does not come with substantial funding attach. That is the problem. funding attach. That is the problem. It is mismanaging public expectations and will hear from a parade I expect of Labour MPs talking to how this will transform

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talking to how this will transform services in their local area but without the funding required it simply will not. I just think it is really important we stop this vicious important we stop this vicious cycle. So in my area, there is... Cancel because of commercial reasons because the bus company says it is no longer commercially viable. That is left people thinking they have to move house or stop their job. There are children who now have to either wait a school or cannot get back from school because the bus goes too late.

We need to stop this vicious cycle and make sure the funding is there and this is a good start to actually help bring buses back to the communities that need them.

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I would refer the honourable lady to the answer I get my honourable friend, without substantial extra levels of funding coming from the levels of funding coming from the government that won't happen. They may have the powers but they were may have the powers but they were not have the ability. The government had talked about the amount of money they're putting into this Bill. The Secretary of State referred to it Secretary of State referred to it into her speech earlier on. It is only a mere £1 billion, of which only a mere £1 billion, of which £700 million has been earmarked for bus planning documents, not actual services.

Less than 30 % is being directed towards the delivery bus services themselves, which will not touch the sides. Giving them the legal power to do something without legal power to do something without the money is mere window dressing. If these challenges can emerge in If these challenges can emerge in greater Manchester and in Greater London, despite all of their resources, planning and political leadership, what should we expect leadership, what should we expect elsewhere? The truth is that we do not really know. And that highlights the danger at the heart of this Bill.

On a connected vein, through franchising we may end up extinguishing a number of highly successful private sector businesses, reducing them to operating for a fee and doing what the state instructs them to do in terms of roots, services and fares. Quite aside from losing the expertise of the private sector that they bring to this network, the Government also risk removing any incentive for the private sector to invest in our bus networks. Potentially leaving the taxpayer with even greater burdens. Despite my various concerns about this legislation, I would like to recognise that the Bill we see before us was greatly improved during its passage through the other place.

Improvements driven notably but not exclusively by Conservative peers. The addition of a purpose clause, obligating the Secretary of State to consider service performance, quality and accessibility was a much-needed addition. As was the amendment requiring an assessment of the impact of ending the two pounds fare cap. Successful amendment requiring the Secretary of State to review bus services to villages in England, to develop a program to eliminate serious injury during bus operations serious injury during bus operations and require bus operators to record all data regarding assault and violent behaviour will table by peers from other political parties to His Majesty's opposition and collectively they improve this Bill.

The latter amendment was tabled by the noble Lord Woodley, a Labour peer and former joint general secretary of the Unite trade union and was bizarrely opposed by Labour peers and succeeded with the support of Conservative peers and those of other parties. A further successful Conservative amendment was passed mandating a review of the National Insurance burden on special educational needs transport following the announcement, the increases announced by the Chancellor the Xhaka. I must say, it is deeply regrettable that Labour peers were whip to vote against the measure designed solely to protect some of the most vulnerable in our society.

-- Chancellor of the Exchequer. In opposing the special educational needs transport amendment in the other place, the government asserted that, "The government do not expect the changes in National Insurance cadavers significant affect on home to school trouble for children with special educational needs and disabilities. Though it would not be proportionate to conduct the assessment this to conduct the assessment this amendment suggests." Leaving aside arrogance of this statement, it contradicts what has been said by those... The chairman of the 24 seven group, one of the largest providers of SEND transport the country, have worn the changes to National Insurance contributions was significantly increased cost, making some contract and Bible.

This risks leaving thousands of children without the transport they were allowed to attend school. -- Making some contract are viable. It is not just shortsighted it speaks about worrying indifference of this legislation vulnerable passengers. On this side of the House will also disappointed that Labour peers voted against introducing safeguarding repeated franchise assessments are the same durable area, which risks wasting public resources and create instability for public and passengers. Similarly it was disappointing to see Labour not support plans to ensure floating bus stops do not threaten the safety of those who are blind or partially sighted.

Likewise, if improving passenger services is at the heart of this Bill, I fail to understand why Labour peers were whipped to vote against the amendment that would give the Secretary of State the power to intervene when franchise services fail due to port local management. Does the Secretary of State, does she really believe passengers should be left stranded simply because I local authority is unable to deliver? I do not believe that to be the case and I look forward to her amending this Bill as it seems to the House.

Why did Labour peers vote against these measures? Once again it would appear that ideology took precedence over passengers. That is why we will push to reinstate these amendments as this Bill sees through the House. The Liberal Democrats aborted many of these measures in the other place and I sincerely hope they will do the same in this House for the benefit of pastas. -- The Liberal Democrats supported many of these measures. In conclusion, franchising may play an important role in improving the bus networks of the future but this Bill alone will not get us there.

That is because this Bill does not prioritise those who matter most. People who rely on buses every single day to get to work, attend school, which appointments as they connected with their communities. While we welcome the positive changes made by peers in the other place and we will not divide the House at second reading, we cannot vote for a bill that lacks basic safeguards, that ignores the risks and that prioritises ideology over impact. We would therefore seek to improve the Bill as it proceeds to the House and I urge the House to consider not just the political implications of this legislation but it's real world consequences for the millions who depend on the services

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every day. Before I called the chair of the transport Select Committee, it might be hopeful to indicate that after the Liberal Democrat spokesperson the Liberal Democrat spokesperson there will be a five minute time limit. I don't propose to drop it any further than that, which obviously for the number of members here, many may be disappointed.

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here, many may be disappointed. I'm grateful to have the
19:38
Ruth Cadbury Portrait Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
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I'm grateful to have the opportunity to speak in this first Commons debate on the Bus Services (No. 2) Bill. And I welcome this Bill. The new Transport Committee decided that its first inquiry would be buses connecting communities. Addressing the rural and non-sitting services across England outside London, we have completed our evidence gathering and a report will be published before too long. Meanwhile, the oral and written evidence we received is tagged to today's Order Paper and is also available on the link on our committee website.

Paul bus services affect -- Paul bus services affect almost every constituency in England outside London, given the interest in the issue in the election for the chair of the transport Select Committee last September and in attendance today. Whether members constituencies are really rural, mid-size cities, suburban or in the London commuter belt, the interest in this issue is significant. In England, outside London there has been an overall decline bus use by 63 % since 2002. Travel is now not only the main form of travel but in many places it is the only way to get around.

Particularly early, late and at weekends. And for those unable to drive or to have access to a car, this lack of decent or indeed any bus service means they are stuck at home and at the mercy of family,

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neighbours or the expense of taxis. Very kind of the honourable lady

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Very kind of the honourable lady to give way. She could be describing my own constituency in Mid Derbyshire, any parts of which are poorly served by buses. Would she poorly served by buses. Would she agree with me that by giving local leaders the power to determine roots and to some port and work with

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and to some port and work with the... Is the way forward? As a Labour government with its focus on growth, opportunity and clean energy, it is essential to clean energy, it is essential to transform bus services across England. Making them more reliable, England. Making them more reliable, accessible and better integrated into the fabric of local communities. From ensuring that residents of rural areas are not left behind, to supporting the growth and regeneration aspirations of our towns away from the major...

To making sure the most vulnerable To making sure the most vulnerable have equal access and ability to travel. In the committee's inquiry, we have received valuable evidence from a wide-ranging stakeholders. In looking at the impact of declining bus services, we had evidence that describe local bus services in 2025 as a barrier to opportunity rather than an enabler. That the future of many services remains precarious and from a local authority perspective, the situation was described as challenging. We also heard of the economic hit that viewer buses had on many town centres.

People cannot travel, they do not spend in local shops and businesses. However, this bill is not a magic one. But instance, the Local Government Association told us that successful implementation will require practical support and local flexibility from central government. I'm going to address, if I may, four key areas. Firstly improve integration and coordination. Passenger groups told us they need a system that works together as a whole rather than a patchwork of disconnected services that they see at present. I therefore welcome the focus on enhance partnerships and franchising powers for local authorities.

The franchising model has long been used in London and more recently Greater Manchester do the Bee Network. Franchising should make for coordinated timetables, simplified fare structures and greater accountability in service delivery, so passengers no longer have to navigate a confusing web of different operators roots and their structures. -- Routes. I'm going to press on because I'm going to be found at if I take too long. On community engagement and local community engagement and local needs, our inquiry was told that services should be shaped by the voices of those who rely on them.

Ensuring that routes are designed to connect communities, not just city centres, and they connect rural and isolated communities. So I welcome the inclusion in the local Bus Service Improvement Plans, BSIP's. That ensure that local authorities are able to work with operators to tailor services on the unique needs of the communities they serve. But I do ask that minister or the Secretary of State, will Bill ensure that service user groups are an integral part of both design and the integral part of both design and the review of local services? Now on to sustainability and green transport.

The Transport Secretary just now reiterated that buses have a vital role to play in this transition towards greener and more sustainable transport as well as cutting in busy streets and reducing car dependency. If my constituency experience is anything to go by, getting adequate EV charging capacity to bus depots has to be a priority. So, whilst this is perhaps not a feature of the Bill, I'm using opportunity to ask the Minister who will work with bus operators and power networks to address this challenges for bus depots? On affordability and accessibility, if there is to be a transformational level of change to the bus system in England, buses have to be there for those who cannot drive or you cannot afford to own and run a car.

A not insignificant proportion of the population are left out, get they need to get to work, to college, to shops, to services, doctors appointments and they have to have a social and family life. And even if the local area is served by reliable bus services, it is no use if you cannot get on or off them. If you do not feel safe or you cannot afford the fare. Whilst I welcome references to affordability and accessibility, I have some questions based on our buses inquiry and our evidence and our access denied report that the work of which was mainly almost completed by our predecessor committee.

Clause 14 of the Bill requires LTAs operating in enhance partnerships to identify socially necessary services. That is welcome. But operators and local authorities in their evidence to us did have questions as to how this would play out. Having defined those services, will local authorities be held to ransom for their continuation, regardless of cost? And on accessibility and safety. Accessibility means more than the design of buses and bus stops but includes the usability of digital information and of maps and timetables.

And whilst... And without excluding those who do not have a smartphone or cannot get a mobile signal. We were told that guidance on accessibility must encourage rather than discourage innovation. And whilst clauses relating to staff training and accessibility are welcome, we were told that guidance must provide clear expectations about the nature of the training to be provided. It must be the guaranteed standard and proven effectiveness. Not a tick box exercise that they have done the In addition, the bill does not appear to address accessibility barriers that prevent those who use mobility scooters from travelling on bus services.

Will the bill be making reference to the public service vehicle accessibility information? As another member has asked, it is unclear whether express coaches and closed-door school services are covered by the relevant clauses in the bill. And on amendments passed in the other place, will the Secretary of State have another chance to look at implementing vision zero on death and injuries goal for the bus and injuries goal for the bus sector? Finally, the elephant in the room is funding.

There is not a country has a self funding bus service. We went to Ireland where government policy provides that the vast majority of rural Ireland is linked to their nearest town at least three return bus journeys per day. Even London's buses survive on cross subsidy from the tube system. So unless and until we have a robust economy where local authorities have the funding to deliver an Ireland level of bus provision, this bill is the start and not the magic bullet in delivering the affordable, accessible, compressive bus network across England that we all aspire to.



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Liberal Democrats Spokesperson. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. In much of the country, the only In much of the country, the only option is buses. Outside of London, buses is in sharp decline. More than buses is in sharp decline. More than buses is in sharp decline. More than one billion fewer passenger journeys than before, and private operators
19:48
Paul Kohler Portrait Mr Paul Kohler MP (Wimbledon, Liberal Democrat)
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than before, and private operators will be able to cream off the best route with scant regard for the needs of the wider committee was the result is increased affairs and reduced or abandoned services for many, unless of course local authorities, starved of access of

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the unprofitable ones. I thank him for giving way for

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I thank him for giving way for sub that is exactly what is happening, or, the number 11 and number 12 bus, which serves lots of rural towns has been salami slice. I just got off the phone to Go Cornwall Bar. It has been salami slice and constituents rely on this slice and constituents rely on this service to get breast-cancer treatment etc and she can no longer afford to get to the hospital pay hundreds of pounds on taxis. Does my honourable friend agree that in rural areas like my we need to ring fence funding to protect key

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healthcare routes? I thank my honourable friend. These are the issues that must be These are the issues that must be addressed in which this bill does not do enough to achieve. In rural not do enough to achieve. In rural areas, the story is often one of total disconnection. Of communities cut off, with people unable to get to work or hospital appointments,

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visit friends or relations. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Does he agree with me giving way. Does he agree with me that in rural constituencies like mine, bus routes are an absolute mine, bus routes are an absolute lifeline, and also a route out of poverty. When the 8485 bus route was poverty. When the 8485 bus route was cut last year, not only did the mean the people could not get to medical points or work, it also meant points or work, it also meant students had to drop out of college courses that would have enabled them to escape from poverty.

Does my to escape from poverty. Does my honourable friend agree with me that we need to make sure that this bill we need to make sure that this bill enables an affordable and joined up genuinely useful rural transport

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network? I Brittney Griner my honourable friend. The point is it is not only about taking people out of poverty was it is also about growing the economy because of we need people to have access to bus route otherwise they are left with expensive dry mentally much more damaging private transport. A poor or non-existent bus service is not just an inconvenience, it is a barrier to opportunity, a brake on economic growth, and an obstacle to achieving net zero.

Given the decline in local bus services under the Conservatives, my party and I warmly welcome the government's renewed focus on this issue. I state the outset, this bill includes measures that are long overdue it's my party would support. I will.

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I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman for giving way. Much has been made about the decline in bus usage was the pattern is similar in usage was the pattern is similar in West Yorkshire between 2011 and 2022. It was a reduction of some 60 million journeys. But under the West Yorkshire Mayor, has been lots of Yorkshire Mayor, has been lots of mention of Greater Manchester, but Tracy Brabin bus improvement plan has seen a 4% increase in usage in buses. Does the honourable gentleman agree with me that approaches that agree with me that approaches that devolve responsibility and make it easier for mayors and local authority to take over public authority to take over public control through franchising are the route to improved usage and ultimately to deliver better buses?

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ultimately to deliver better buses? I do agree with the honourable member. It's also about funding them. It is something we must explore. But it is bringing it down to the local level which is crucial. So the bill does not go far enough. Fully short of delivering the compressive transformative change in our bus network needs, and I urge the Minister even at this late hour to be more ambitious. If I may begin by outlining those measures introduced under this bill that my party supports, my parties long championed localism, it is all about providing communities with the necessary tools to realise their potential.

And improve and streamline and extend franchising rights to all transporting authorities is long overdue and supported on these benches.

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On communities, does my noble friend join me in congratulating the community in North Taunton for community in North Taunton for getting the number one first bus in the morning at 622 restored, to have the morning at 622 restored, to have the joy of experiencing it this morning tinged with the tiredness that results from having got on the that results from having got on the 06 22. Would you also agree that we need specific funding to connect bus need specific funding to connect bus services with hospitals, and many

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services with hospitals, and many other hospitals so that bus services properly connect those institutions? I am happy to join my honourable friend in congratulating the friend in congratulating the community on their success. And yes we do need funding for these critically important services. critically important services. Furthermore the placing of socially necessary services on a statutory necessary services on a statutory footing as a beneficial change to the enhanced partnership model because it ensures that alternatives will be considered. The bill also rightly lifts the outdated ideology driven ban on municipally owned bus company.

Empowering local authorities rather than evangelising them. So the bill includes options where local authorities can choose what works best for them. As the Secretary of State says, you must not become one-size-fits-all approach. Not every local authority will wish to pursue franchising, or the partnership model being abandoned. What works for grade Manchester or London may not work for Cornwall. It must be up to local leaders and local communities to decide what works best for them. I welcome the fact the government is not mandating a certain approach.

However, therein lies the challenge, empowering local authorities in law is one thing, enabling the practice is quite another. This bill hands councils set of keys to a new bus network, but it does not ensure there is fuel in the tank. Franchising is complex, resource intensive, and unfamiliar to the vast majority of local authorities. It requires expertise, commercial understanding, operational planning, and above all funding. The Department for Transport itself has acknowledged the difficulties, yet the Secretary of State provides little to help overcome them.

The government's desire to increase its own capacity to advise councils is welcome, but I'm not convinced they are doing enough. Recently established Bus Centre of Excellence which will no doubt hear much about passage of this bill is a positive development, but does it really have the necessary capacity and resources to provide meaningful support to all those who might need it? If we are to see franchising become a viable to see franchising become a viable option, we must take bold steps to offer councils without either the expertise or the finance more than just a helpline or best practice.

Every honourable Member knows how overstretched the local authorities R. With the exception of colleagues from Reform of course, sadly out of today's debate no doubt frantically searching for things that they confidently said, we know most authorities lack the finances, expertise and bandwidth to use the tools the bill is provided. With the result that only those local authorities that have the capacity already will use them. Exacerbating the disparities not reducing them. Even if we overcome such problems, it will not remove the continuing role of central government in securing access and affordability.

That is why the government reckless That is why the government reckless decision to raise the bus fare cap from £2 to £3 cast a dark shadow over this bill. It help people back onto the network, as I see the colour policy we need more not less. Increasing fares by £1 her trip may not sound prohibitive but for those on low incomes, it is a significant cost increase. Adding £20 to accost a weekly commute to anyone who has to take two buses to work, only saves the government £150 million.

Let us be clear, the increase is regressive. It will hit the poorest hardest, particularly at a time of the cost-of-living crisis. The government should commit to preserving affordability not undermining it, as raising fares in the absence of improvement risks decline rather than reversing it. And there are rumours that the fair cap may be removed entirely. We must not allow the progress of recent years to unravel with the Treasury virtue signalling which will only save a further £150 million.

A thriving affordable bus network is not a luxury, it is an essential public service. This bill must ensure that is the case. Nowhere is that more true than our rural area. As we have seen for years, current bus market is failing small villages and hamlets. Serving the neither

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efficiently nor sufficiently. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Would my honourable friend agree that we need to do more to protect section 22 community bus services section 22 community bus services such as community transport which is now facing having a mountain of bureaucracy to retender for routes had built up from scratch against had built up from scratch against commercial bus operators have got all the abilities to pitch against all the abilities to pitch against those and win them, leaving the community bus operators high and dry?

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dry? I do agree with my honourable friend. We must do all we can to friend. We must do all we can to reduce bureaucracy. This bill does something towards that, and we need something towards that, and we need to do more. Where can I get to? The bill as it currently stands provides nothing specific for rural areas. No dedicated rural funding stream, no obligation to maintain coverage. It obligation to maintain coverage. It is clear that the growth needed in areas must ensure local authorities have the ambition and financial

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means to improve public transport. This bill is missing an opportunity. One of the consequences for my

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One of the consequences for my constituents of losing services like constituents of losing services like the 84, 85 and others, is that they are cut off from health services. are cut off from health services. Does my noble friend agree that there has to be a focus on the increased passenger numbers when increased passenger numbers when judging investment uses is a disadvantage to rural areas?

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disadvantage to rural areas? I do agree with my honourable friend friend. We must not just look friend friend. We must not just look at numbers, it is connectivity and making sure rural areas thrive. I

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will indeed. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. I would like to concentrate not just on purely rural areas but places like Surrey, in my constituency, the number 514 bus connects two important places in the community, it runs only twice a day, and not to be seen at all on a Sunday. The service will severely cut back in 2016. The distance is one of the half miles. To make that distance you have to get a bus into London and out again which takes 40

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minutes. I will have made the point previously interventions must be

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previously interventions must be I will simply say I agree with my

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I will simply say I agree with my honourable member. For example, talking about rural areas suffering, from 2015 until 2023, Shropshire lost three % of their Bass Mars, the largest decline of any part of largest decline of any part of England. Voters in Shropshire decided in May they had enough of decided in May they had enough of the Conservatives and voted in a majority Lib Dem administration for majority Lib Dem administration for the first time. However, now the bus service in Shropshire is one of service in Shropshire is one of Western country, it is by no means an isolated case.

I have heard and no doubt the House way from colleagues, they have already done, from residents across the country, from rural areas such as Norfolk, Somerset and Hampshire, no buses or about the days if you are lucky has sadly become the norm in many villages. It is not just inconvenient, it is holding back our rural economies and stifling growth. I fear the measures in the Bill will not be sufficient to reverse that decline. Lastly, I want to address accessibility. This is something on which my Liberal Democrat colleagues in the other place and other noble Lords have made good progress and have secured a number of improvements.

As originally drafted, the bill included positive provision for the mandatory training of staff, both in supporting disabled passengers and in tackling on-board antisocial behaviour. These are measures we support. The Liberal Democrats believe disability means more than awareness training, it means fully accessible vehicles, clear signage and announcement. Accessible journeys,... Accessible journey planning tools and critically, accessible infrastructure. From the bus stops to the ticket machines. In this regard, the excellent amendment to ensure disability guidance and provision of floating stops, which are badly designed, as we have heard, came be a real hazard to disabled people, was inserted in the Bill after representations from the Lib Dem transport leader in the Lords.

Furthermore, the inclusion of bus network accessibility plans after pressure from Baroness Brinton amongst others is another important amendment as it will go some way to helping us understand the barriers disabled residents face, accessibility is a vital lifeline. We must not be complacent. As the Secretary of State has intimated, and anticipate more that should be done in Committee stage, to ensure these are affected as they can be. In summing up, let me conclude where I began. There are many aspects of the Bill which my party and I welcome.

After years of Tory neglect, provisions to give local authorities more control and input into their local bus network are long overdue and clearly sensible. But we cannot give local authorities tantalising new powers without the practical means of utilising them. That requires sustained investment and reform of the funding models. I acknowledge the government has promised to include longer term funding settlements in the spring spending review. However, it suggests it is unlikely to address the shortfall -- shortfall in local government funding. This has the tools but to build something affected with them councils need not just legislation but finance, expertise and flexibility required to perfect their vision, address the community's needs.

I urge the Secretary of State to please go back to the Treasury and ask for more. Because financing a viable bus economy.
20:04
Elsie Blundell Portrait Mrs Elsie Blundell MP (Heywood and Middleton North, Labour)
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Thank you. I would like to begin by thanking my right honourable friend, the Transport Secretary, and her team for bringing forward this important piece of legislation. Local bus services are fundamental to the lives of so many people. When it comes to accessing work and leisure opportunities, for social inclusion and for cleaning up our air, reducing congestion and curtailing transport emissions. They are the different in many cases between our constituents able to seize opportunities or being denied them.

Simply, buses are too important to get wrong. That is why I wholly welcome today's legislation and the ambition of this government finally put things right after decades of fragmentation and underinvestment. As their MP in Greater Manchester, I have seen the far-reaching benefits are bringing local bus services back under local control. I am incredibly proud that Greater Manchester is the only place outside of London to have re- regulated its bus network as part of creating a fully integrated public transport network, the Bee Network, for the people of our city region.

A recent report reduced by IPPR North highlights just how much the city region has turned its bus network around. The report highlights that franchising is already delivering better services for people in Greater Manchester. But it was an uphill battle to get there. It is time the government to get on board with better buses and support local leaders on this journey. This will demonstrate that the Government has got on board and I welcome the steps it takes to finally empower local it takes to finally empower local decision-makers to make the decisions that they are best qualified to make.

The achievement of greater Manchester when it comes to the Bee Network are considerable and it makes the world of difference in my constituency and across the city region. Interventions made in partnership with local people meant there were 17 million more bus journeys across the city region in 2024 compared with 2023 and the network now carries over 170 million passengers a year in Greater Manchester. Indeed, I would like to briefly touch on an example in my own area, which illustrates what the Bill can practically offer.

Heywood and Middleton North has at times failed to benefit from greater failed to benefit from greater Manchester's rising prosperity. Due to the bigger role local people now have in devising transport policy under franchise, however, I am now able to make a strong case for an express bus service Lord and Bamford in my constituency down to Hayward, Middleton and ultimately into Manchester city centre. This is something my constituents as have gone without for far too long. And it is time to finally be balance the scales in their favour.

After consulting with the local people who are determined to see this express bus service reinstated and after producing a report setting out our case, I have been engaging consistently with transport for Greater Manchester to see what can be done. I would like to put on record my thanks to the mayor and his team for taking seriously the calls me by my constituents, including from parents and teachers who understand the value of this route to a school, and I look forward to future conversations about the service being reinstated.

That is what this Bill at its core is all about. It will put buses back at the heart of communities, identify gaps in provision and set about addressing them, enhance connections and fundamentally shaped routes to bickering people's lives. I would also briefly led to raise the issue of accessibility. Our buses should be for everyone but we know many blind, deafblind and disabled people more broadly encountered serious challenges with public transport. One issue that comes up time and time again, included previously in this debate, is that of floating bus stops.

I know some organisations assess the risk of harm around those stops can be very low based on the total number of incidents. I would argue that one incident is one to many and we must consider that the figures may be solo as disabled people, as a result of the expansion of floating bus stops, a substance being deterred from travelling altogether and there are many collisions undoubtably go unreported. I know this issue, as the Secretary of State said, has been raised in other place but I would also let like to draw my remarks were closed by asking the Secretary of State what engagement has been carried out at the Department from the lived experiences of blind and partially sighted people and the organisations that represent them in these clauses of the Bill? We must continue to build public transport for all, not just when convenient to do so.

Finally I wish to raise the issue of safety on public transport. I commend the measures in this Bill to enable workers across the sector to develop their skills, including supporting them to respond effectively to violence on the network. What engagement has been carried out with trade union officials regarding these measures and what further steps can be taken to make sure bus drivers, interchange staff and others are themselves safe from harassment and abuse? In closing, I would like to thank the Secretary of State once again for developing this legislation and ensuring that buses are at the heart of our communities and serve and reflect...



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I draw members attention to my register of interests. I have campaigned in North Norfolk for campaigned in North Norfolk for nearly a decade and all the while people have been sharing with me
20:10
Steff Aquarone Portrait Steff Aquarone MP (North Norfolk, Liberal Democrat)
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people have been sharing with me that frustration is with our local public transport network. Since the age of 11, watching different operator buses leapfrogging each other along routes I have been trying to work out a better way of doing things for everyone. Because too many people find that the current system is not enough of a network to get from where they are to where they want to be at the times they need. One young person in Bristol in my constituency is studying to work in childcare.

She is eager to secure an apprenticeship at a local nursery cannot get to the nursery in which he has applied from an apprenticeship until 9 o'clock, party late for the 8am start time. This has caused her to miss out on a promising opportunity as her transport options mean she continues to struggle to break into the sector. Another constituent told me how she moved to Bilic because I had a bus service and she hoped it would give her disabled son the opportunity for greater independence.

But the village has since lost its bus service and with the independence of those residents who rely on it. Our local buses are so much more than just vehicles ferrying people from a to B. They are the key to training an appointment for those entering the world of work. An antidote to loneliness, allowing people to see loneliness, allowing people to see friends and families and take part in community groups and activities and have to get our older people to their vital medical appointments. As an example, to get to the main hospital in Norwich, you have to go all the way into the city centre and change buses.

That means bus users in most of my constituency can only get to a clinic in the middle of the whole day trip. If only the local authority had the power to decide the routes and times that work for the needs of the population. Putting on direct services between busy hubs. This is the problem for far too long, the importance of bus networks in our area has not been reflected in how it has been treated

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those in power. Thank you, my honourable friend,

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Thank you, my honourable friend, forgiving way. In my constituency, the county council has still not appointed a transport authority, appointed a transport authority, among the elections. While they did and delay, a real community suffers. Bus timetables are being reduced, Bus timetables are being reduced, routes cut and obviously they are punishing those who rely on public transport most. Does my honourable friend agree that bus transport in rural areas deserves urgent and

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rural areas deserves urgent and serious attention? I thank my honourable friend. I agree, much as I was like Norfolk agree, much as I was like Norfolk County Council times, it sounds at least like they have someone driving the bus, compared to her counsel. the bus, compared to her counsel. This is not the fault of bus operators. I have grateful for the time and engagement they have provided me on this issue. They are a valuable source of counsel as we look to the exciting future for rural services.

I am also a huge fan of demand responsible transport, which could be opened up to serve a watch -- much wider range of needs with a simplification of the rules. It is politics that is prevented by connected future, not bus operators. The last government funding mechanism for local transport was complete and sustainable, making councils compete for pots of funding, rather than supporting long-term strategy. It made for a perfect storm in the Conservative lead counsel in Norfolk, who could trumpet quick wins from these grants, all the while lacking comments of an overarching vision or strategy for how we create a proper

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rural public transport network. I really recognise the point he raises, under the Conservatives, raises, under the Conservatives, Bracknell Forest counsel saw bus Bracknell Forest counsel saw bus master head all from 10.9 to 6.3 master head all from 10.9 to 6.3 miles, a reduction of 42 %. -- Bracknell Forest counsel Mac. Now only with a Labour councillor can be seen routes expanded. As he agree it seen routes expanded. As he agree it is vital we work closely with bus companies, the enhanced partnership models, if that's right the local area, like it is in Bracknell area, like it is in Bracknell Forest, to improve local services

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Forest, to improve local services for our residents? I thank invoice intervention, he has helped me make progress, I think it is all about your attitude and mindset. In Norfolk, a former leader even eagerly told the council that Norfolk is a car county. If only they had realised earlier on, their pipe dreams quarter of £1 billion road was never going to happen, they could have spent that money on buses instead. I hope that the powers that are promised in today's bill as seized upon in Norfolk.

I think the bus ranch Ihsane -- bus franchising can be an important first step. At present, our buses do not link up well for our one train line, there is no link ticketing and... Radical rethink of how we deliver these services is needed and I hope that whoever gets control of these powers after the reorganisation of our local government is willing to do it. I know if this was to fall into our hands at Norfolk Liberal Democrats, we would be ready to show what a successful model for rural public transport looks like.

Just like we have seen happen in our cities after the control of many different parties. The Government needs to come clean on how bus franchising will be funded. I hope my am I Select Committee colleagues on our inquiry on connected communities will help unlock the public transport revolution in every corner of the country. The ask from the people in North Norfolk who are concerned by this, it really isn't difficult, they want to be able to catch a bus to the places they want to go at the times they want to travel.

This can be our chance to move away outdated thinking, it is time to create the transport network that would really revolutionise experience of local passengers. Let's make North Norfolk's buses
20:15
Preet Kaur Gill Portrait Preet Kaur Gill MP (Birmingham Edgbaston, Labour )
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I welcome this bill today because it lets local communities take back control. Communities in my constituency I represent will welcome measures in this bill. I speak today someone who is the daughter of a bus driver, that timeworn political cliche, who was born and raised in her constituency and he still today relies on the same number 11 bus route. Those who have lived in Birmingham in the west Midlands for decades have seen the first and declining our services. Thanks to a veiled Tory ideology written has become one of the few places in the developed world to hand power to operators, 2/bus services and hike fares with little say for communities who depend on them.

And our bus services are mostly provided by private providers transport for West Midlands. Over the years I have exchanged many letters and had meetings with providers and National Express. I have campaigns to extend a bus in my area improving connectivity. I surveyed resident on changes to the 23, 24 buses, and have fought to restore the Arconic 48 bus route my constituents relied on before it was rerouted. The problem remains that communities have no democratic control over route and feel shut out of the process.

The powers in this bill means that is coming to an end. To do more than just a mode of transport and in my constituency over 40% of households don't have access to a car. Buses are relied on by many people who need to get around, see doctors and get around. Poor services leave our beauties your isolated, disconnected, and the average life expectancy of a man can drop by seven years amongst nine bus stops. Connecting people to life chances needs a strong transport network.

That is what this bill is about. The complaints are my constituents are too familiar, our buses are unreliable, frequently late and it is no wonder that 50% of Brummies choose to use cars. Last week fares will put up to the maximum 3 pounds fare. The system lets private operators set the terms. Finally a Labour mayor working with a Labour government will franchise our buses giving communities new powers to set routes, fares, and services. Richard Parker is changing it.

Instead of subsidising the deregulatory model with money to ensure services are not axed, he will take back control of fares and routes. Under his leadership, the franchise process will begin this year. Clauses 13, 23, 27, 28 will be pivotal to the combined authority mayor plan. From 2010 until 2023, the miles clocked by buses across West Midlands dropped by one third. This upgrade failed to materialise in 2014 the last government promise other rapid transit scheme in my constituency delivered only 300 m of tramline in 10 years.

Under this government we are already on the road to fixing our broken bus system. These new franchising powers are just the next step. The truth is that deregulation has meant little more than a race to the bottom four places like Birmingham. I constituents of Seymour forward thinking leaders have been able to do and we want that as well. We need this legislation and continued central government funding to make it a reality. This bill will help my community of Birmingham Edgbaston realise our ambitions.

That is why I

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will be supporting it at second reading. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I declare an interest as a vice president of the LGA and granddaughter of a London bus granddaughter of a London bus driver. Bus services have been reduced to a dire state my North Shropshire constituency in recent years. Most drastically under the years. Most drastically under the watch of the last Conservative government. One of the worst served constituencies in England for public
20:19
Helen Morgan Portrait Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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constituencies in England for public transport having seen the reduction of the staggering 63% of our bus miles. That compares to English reduction of just 19%. A person wants to get to the Princess Royal Hospital in Telford, a 20 minute car journey, is looking at something like a five-hour round trip on the bus. There is only one service that operates on a Sunday in the whole county between the market towns. So in short, the current situation is unacceptable. Just before recess I visited an academy at the Parliament education centre and answered questions.

One young woman asked me, what are we doing to make bus services better? She can go with her friends to any after-school clubs due to her bus not running back to St Martin's past 3:30 PM. I really met the youth group who raised similar concerns. Young people in rural communities are now faced with the situation of a childhood confined to a small village or town they live in left with a lack of choice in their education, a lack of opportunity for socialising and taking part in activities outside of school and tricking their horizons.

Ultimately the options for employment can be significantly curtailed. Unless of course the parents can afford to give them a car. Meanwhile, older or disabled constituents who are no longer able to drive or cannot afford to are fully dependent on family members and friends to get them to where they need to be. I think everybody in this House would agree with me that this is driving deep and fundamental inequality as was holding back the economy in rural areas. That is why I broadly supportive of this bill.



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Thank you for giving way. She is painting a picture that is very familiar to my constituents in familiar to my constituents in Dartford, of deteriorating services, in my case under Kent County Council, with 30 years of Council, with 30 years of Conservative rule means that buses got worse pretty much every year. I have written to the new CAP reform have written to the new CAP reform led administration in Kent asking that they will undertake to use the that they will undertake to use the powers of the bill to improve bus powers of the bill to improve bus services in Dartford and across Kent.

Would you agree with me that with the new bill there are huge opportunities for local authorities opportunities for local authorities to improve bus services, improve transport networks for the benefit of residents in my constituency and hers?

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hers? I thank him his intervention. I was about to say that I'm broadly supportive of this bill and the empowerment of local authorities to franchise our services for those reasons. It should enhance accessibility and allow local authorities to establish new bus companies something they're not able to do. It is critical that local authorities can protect and establish roots which ensure access to employment, healthcare, and town centres. This is one of the aims of my own Bus Services Bill seeks to address.

With these new powers being given to local government, I have real concerns of the ability of rural local authorities to find the funding to drive meaningful change we so need. In November the government allocated an extra £1 billion funding for buses and the then secretary of state for transport said funding for rural areas would be unprecedented. Shropshire Council received a one £4 million in funding £2.4 million in revenue funding for this financial year. That is the 53rd lowest of 73 allocations one of the worst served counties in the country.

The funding allocation is a tiny allocation of shops has bus improvement plan. It outlined the need for £73.5 million a bus running across three years to transform the county's bus network to acceptable standard. The cost franchising is likely to be prohibitive as well to local authorities like mine. For a government to promised a new formula based on need, deprivation, and thus mileage to end the postcode lottery, it has so far made abundantly clear that living in a rural area means less money, less public services, less opportunity.

There is a clear need for better transport in Shropshire. One third of North Shropshire's children are growing up in poverty, so I deprivation may be hidden by a beautiful leafy setting but it certainly exists. By limiting the opportunities of the children, it is being perpetuated. The council spends around 80% of its budget on care, the percentage forecast to rise and its services are high, at more than 1200 mi, Shropshire covers an area 27 times the size of Greater Manchester. Roughly 325,000 people live here are relatively evenly distributed across the area, adding to the cost of delivery of those services.

So I support the principles of the bill but there must be recognition of the desperate situation that local council finances are in and particularly in large rural areas like mine. The rise of the bus fare Will force people to fork out the significant amount each year. And in rural communities like North Shropshire, alternatives to bus travel are few and far between. For the financially vulnerable who rely on buses to access services the impact of the hike to £3 will be devastating.

While I see the success of this bill in cities like London and Greater Manchester, it is essential that rural areas are not left behind, or by the cost of delivering social care over a large geographical area that they have been by previous illustrations. And buses are the best way to reduce inequality and to unlock the growth that can be uncovered. I hope the Minister will work with colleagues in the Treasury

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to help transform opportunities in rural areas. Thank you. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to be called in this debate and on an issue that I know many of us care so deeply about. I congratulate the secretary of state and her team for producing the bill, and her team for producing the bill, and is a member of the bus and coach APPD and a bus nerd, I'm very excited to support it. Growing up in a village, a local bus service was a village, a local bus service was not just a nice to have it was a lifeline.

Those of us too young to drive or for families without a car, drive or for families without a car, it meant everything. It connected us to school, our work, family, and friends. Without it we were cut off.
20:26
Chris Bloore Portrait Chris Bloore MP (Redditch, Labour)
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friends. Without it we were cut off. In recent weeks, I have become one of those people who often talks about the good old days. Only a couple weeks ago I found myself reminiscing about the youth services we used to have in Worcestershire especially read it. The truth is, even the bus service I grew up with, when I depended on, frankly wasn't that great. Like now, I was forced to leave my home like many of my constituents, to maintain getting to a job or going to the next level of education.

Let's be honest, things any got worse. As public transport subsidies became an easy target for local government cuts during austerity. And I know that the shadow spokesman is not in its place any more but of all the numbers he listed in his response to the Secretary of State, he failed to list one which said that the number of bus routes in England fell by half during the last government, something that people who relied on buses were deeply frustrated about. In 1986 the Thatcher government promised deregulation and privatisation would lead to lower fares, more services, more passengers.

For towns like mine in Reddit, the opposite happened. We lost services, fares went up, passengers disappeared, and communities were left behind. Many of the roots I once used as a teenager simply no longer exist. That story is not unique, it is echoed in towns and villages right across the country. Why are we surprised that services struggle to retain numbers when those services are unreliable, expensive, fragmented? How many times must I constituents explain to the boss by they were late again to work because the bus did not turn up? Or apologise to Electra after missing the first part of the class because the timetable change last minute? Only last week I was speaking with local businesses to Tommy they are desperate to recruit but I cannot find the staff who could actually get to them.

Are we surprised? I was surprised that our night-time economies, our bars, restaurants and night venues are struggling people cannot line a bus to get home safely? Don't have a drink after 7 PM? No. There to have a night out past 10 PM? No. And at the time and patience are asked to go further for treatment and specialised services are centralised, we don't have the level of service required to make sure the sick and most honourable arrive on time. Many simply pay for taxes they can't afford.

In Worcestershire the local bus system has become so complex with different operators, inconsistent timetables, that you would need a PhD in public transport to figure it out. Luckily I have a constituent, a local student expert who I swear can be dropped at any corner of the constituency and still find the route home. But for most people they simply give up. That is why I strongly welcome the opportunity the bill presents. And it is long overdue. It gives local authorities like my own the chance to take back control, that feels with saying that, to design bus services around that, to design bus services around people's needs rather than essentially timetable.

It means services can be planned properly with roots that serve communities not shareholders. Both urban and rural, that match people's lives and needs. It can mean villages, residents in my constituency can have a fit for purpose service that meets their needs without having to waste four hours for a 10 minute trip to the post office. That people can once again rely on bus services to get me they need to be without the stress, without the guesswork and without the fear of being

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stranded. He is making a passionate speech in defence of buses. Does he share in defence of buses. Does he share my disappointment that just like the Strategic Defence Review earlier, Strategic Defence Review earlier, not a single Reform MP is here for this debate? Does he take it like I this debate? Does he take it like I do that they don't care? They don't care about defence or buses either?

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care about defence or buses either? I thank him his contribution. I don't want to assess and second- don't want to assess and second- guess the motivations of the members opposite, it is quite sparse from a opposite, it is quite sparse from a number of parties but perhaps they have different priorities. Finally I wanted to add, people talk to me wanted to add, people talk to me about wanting to play the role in reducing car journeys will stop what a wonderful way that would be if they could have a bus network.

I wholeheartedly support this bill. I constituents aborted, local businesses support it, because this is our chance to build a bus network that works for everyone. Will it be easy? No. But surely we can replicate the success of our international partners building affordable comprehensive bus network

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This bill does not apply to

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This bill does not apply to Northern Ireland and some I wonder why would I bother to speak and it, and the reason is very simple. That and the reason is very simple. That the ramifications of this bill could be positive for the whole United be positive for the whole United Kingdom. Because of the government's vision within it for decarbonising vision within it for decarbonising our bus travel. There are presently
20:31
Jim Allister Portrait Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)
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our bus travel. There are presently 36,000 fossil fuelled buses on our roads. In the United Kingdom. And if the vision of government and of this bill is secured, then there is a lot of conversion and replacement to happen. And if that is to happen, then I represent in my constituency a primary company that can help this government towards that goal because I have the privilege of representing a North Antrim, which of course has right bus at its very hard.

Which is involved not just in electric buses but is a leader in hydrogen buses and can still produce diesel buses when needed. So I do say to this government we've had many experiences in this United Kingdom of missed opportunities for our own industries, not least in the bus sector, not least in the electric sector where we have seen Chinese supply. I do say to the government if they are serious about this, then that's built into this a prioritisation of British built as a prerequisite to the refurbishment of the industry.

The second thing I want to say to government, with so many diesel buses across this nation, and with the expense of replacing old with new, the middle option of refurbishing diesel buses as electric buses is something that needs to be grasped and explored. And again, Right Bus is a leader in that in terms of reimaging and resupplying electric into diesel. And that is something that I think is a necessary step forward in this regard.

And the final point I wanted to make is this, that is in the English situation so many of these matters devolved to Mayor areas or local councils, I would ask the government are they prepared to embrace a Metro maze being able to pursue joint procurement, not just for their own area but working with others so that you can have the delivery that will come from larger orders. And that will benefit all concerned. So I say to this government, you have an opportunity here, not just to impact and to help the regions that this bill will directly affect, but you have the opportunity to bring benefit to the whole United Kingdom, not just Northern Ireland of course that our primary bus manufacturers are also large suppliers in Scotland.

So there is an opportunity, and I trust that the opportunity will be grasped and it will be particularly underscored by the need to prioritise local United Kingdom built in terms of the replenishing of our bus services and our buses

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across the United Kingdom. Sarah Hall.

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Thank you. This bill will for the first time in decades restore the power local authorities across the power local authorities across the country to create new publicly owned country to create new publicly owned bus companies. And when bus services are run in the public interest, they work better and they work for work better and they work for everyone. In Warrington South we only know the difference that that only know the difference that that could make. The intense own buses is a fantastic example of what a publicly owned bus company operated under a Labour run Administration
20:35
20:36
Olly Glover Portrait Olly Glover MP (Didcot and Wantage, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you for stopping its great Come to the House of Commons, and I applaud its desire to improve the quality and availability of bus quality and availability of bus services. Buses are the core part of our public transport system and they often wrongly neglected in favour of what some but definitely not me what some but definitely not me could describe as sexy and more alluring methods of transport such alluring methods of transport such as trams and trains. As we've heard so far there is much good in the bill, particular empowerment of local authorities to operate their own services and provisions to implement services for socially necessary routes, but it could do more to address the needs of rural areas including three VAT exemptions areas including three VAT exemptions for small public transport vehicles to encourage demand responsive and community transport schemes.

More help to local authorities transition to net zero vehicles and has already been said, the 2 pounds, 3 pounds been said, the 2 pounds, 3 pounds bus fare cap needs looking at again in terms of restoring it to a two in terms of restoring it to a two found -- 2 pounds bus fare cap. We have been delivering improvements with Thames travel and Oxford bus company which serve my constituency first franchising does have potential to further improve on this, although it's good that the governor has acknowledged that one size fits all approach is not necessarily what we need to see.

And such franchising will only be viable if local authorities are given long-term funding certainty and support requiring the expertise and capacity within their passenger transport teams. We as Lib Dems consider the access to Premier healthcare facilities a social necessary route. In my constituency in the past four years the decision was made to change the route of a bus going through the village of Harwell and into the town centre of Didcot. The change of room and the people living in how well could catch one bus to the GP surgery in Didcot, despite only being 2 miles away.

This is the sort of thing that we need to consider. There is much in my constituency that is good about the current bus provision. We have an integrated radon bus terminal at Didcot Parkway which enables a convenient interchange. Decent bass frequencies and journey times during daytime's exist between Didcot and Wantage, Grove Oxford and Wallingford and in between them. There are good examples of partnership working between the major employment centres at Harvard campus in Milton Park. And Oxford bus company and Thames travel, including Milton Parks, £20 per year bus pass offer for people who work there, which is leading to a very measurable achievement in encouraging modal shift, and there is generally decent daytime provisions but there is also much that needs to improve.

Many villages have no evening or Sunday service, in particular stands in the Vale which seem very significant housing drift, buses serving current campers proposed to be an AI growth centre for the government is meagre with no evening or Sunday service, and in the evening frequency drops and reasoning integration between train and bus added Park works as well. Can be patchy, particular involving roots in Oxford although that's mostly due to road congestion. And delighted to be a member of the transport Select Committee and we visited Ireland to understand the bus patronage there between 2022 and 24, bus patronage increased fivefold achieved by increased public funding and engaging communities in the design of routes, particularly the local town and parish councils.

The core principle is restoration of as a bare minimum morning, early afternoon and early evening service plus late evening in many cases to address something and honourable member mentioned about pubs to create a viable alternative to driving. Ireland has also set itself extremely ambitious targets to grow as public transport chair from 8% today to 90% in 2030, which would nearly have switch levels in Europe. Ireland is investing high amounts and continuous bus corridor infrastructure in urban areas as well, particularly in Dublin and they have longer-term plans for significant Gentile reductions InterCity train routes to improve integration between bus and rail, and in all of this they told us they are more concerned by the social environment and economic objectives they are trying to hit rather than looking simply at the cost in isolation.

There are some good examples here in the UK of the island approach. I was on holiday in North Yorkshire in April, and North Yorkshire County had taken over a route abandoned by a private operator using their own minibuses, route 11. Offering a two hourly service and connecting well with real services. Integration is critical to making public transport more accessible and attractive as Switzerland has shown us. For these reasons the government integrated transport strategy is eagerly awaited and will be an essential component in achieving better use of our public transport system to the benefit of economy, environment and reducing social exclusion.

So whilst this bill goes a long way in improving bus services, there are a lot of things that we as Liberal Democrats would like to the government going further on, so that we can really achieve our ambition for our transport system to make sure it fulfils our social, economic and environmental needs.
20:41
Marie Tidball Portrait Dr Marie Tidball MP (Penistone and Stocksbridge, Labour)
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Thank you. Building better buses is in my blood. Growing up my dad was chair of Barnsley passenger transport, South Yorkshire had a world-class bus service thanks to our labour County Council. Labour knew then as we know now that buses are for the people. The Conservatives and for four just don't get it. As demonstrated by those empty benches straight opposite us right now. The Conservatives when they were in government promised us in South Yorkshire a London style transport system.

Instead, after 14 years of their neglect, our constituency lost 53% of its bus services, including the vital SL one Supertramp service link connecting stocks Bridge and Tudor Bridge to Sheffield. With a crucial number 57 and 57.A left frequently running late or failing to turn up at all. And cuts to the 43, 44 buses seriously affecting my constituents. The reality of our rural neighbourhoods is even more stark. As constituents at my community event on transport told me, villages like bolster stone are cut off entirely.

In bachelors, losing bus connectivity after certain hours of the day and the number 21 from Penistone to Barnsley is a route crying out for urgent improvements. Our Labour government knows buses are a lifeline which connects our families and our communities across Penistone & Stocksbridge. That's why I am proud that through our Better Buses Bill, we are empowering communities by ensuring buses serve local people rather than the distant corporate interests. This bill will remove barriers to public control and franchising, placing decisions back into the hands of our communities over bus routes times and fares.

Our Labour South Yorkshire mayor has been driving change locally with his franchising consultation involving nearly 8,000 people with 75% strongly supporting it. These plans also allow profits to be reinvested directly into better, more reliable services. That's why I'm proud our Transport Secretary has announced a landmark one million fund about 1 billion to transform English bus services including 70 million specifically South Yorkshire. And this matters deeply to local people in my constituency. Older and disabled constituents often tell me they are left stranded, injuring painfully long waiting times due to unreliable services and facing distressing situations, including toileting issues and missed NHS appointments because buses simply fail to appear.

This is unacceptable. That's why it's right that the bill before us today will deliver a more accessible and inclusive bus network as well as introducing a 3 million... Sorry, 3 pounds maximum cap on bus fares until 2026 to encourage more people to use public transport. After years of broken promises, our Labour government is taking urgent action to rebuild Britain's bus services, ending the postcode lottery and delivering a public transport system that is affordable, accessible, and dependable. Enabling South Yorkshire to bring back lost bus routes.

That's why I'm committed to working with our Labour mayor and leader of Sheffield City Council to secure the return of the quick reliable SL one Supertramp link and a local hopper bus. We need bold bus solutions now while we await the long-term infrastructure improvements I'm advocating for, like the tram advocating for, like the tram Every single one of us has the right to use buses to travel to work and see family and friends. Public transport is fundamental to achieving social justice so that young and old in our communal areas, towns and villages, can depend on public transport for work, education and access to healthcare.

I commend this bill to the House.
20:46
Mike Martin Portrait Mike Martin MP (Tunbridge Wells, Liberal Democrat)
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In Tunbridge Wells, buses aren't a luxury. They connect schoolchildren to their classrooms, the elderly to their communities, carers to patients and people unable to drive to jobs, shops and healthcare. When these links are weakened lives are disrupted and communities start to fracture. If lockdown taught us anything, it is that social isolation is not just lonely, it's incredibly damaging for mental health and that has effects throughout our whole society. Without a reliable bus service people are stuck at home and dependable public transport isn't just a convenience, it is an economic, social and health imperative.

In my constituency, schoolchildren take the 267 on a route cobbled together by merging disconnected services will stop it one slowly through villages and regularly arrives late meaning children often miss the start of school. This is a failure to support our children's education. But worse, in Kent, the price of an annual children's bus pass is extortionate. Parents pay £550 per child for them to arrive late or not at all. Now, with the 2 pounds fare cap rising to 3 pounds, a commuter making two journeys a day, five days a week will be paying an extra £500 per year, on top of the cost-of-living crisis of soaring bills, rent and food prices.

That's why we on these benches want that fair cap to be reinstated at 2 pounds. It's not just schoolchildren and commuters. Many elderly and low-income residents reliant buses to maintain independence and reduce social isolation and yet services are still being cut. In Tunbridge Wells, the 2890 longer runs on weekends. Isolating residents from Southborough to show fields. You can commute to work, you might be able to squeeze in a shop on Tuesday, haps you can meet some friends for a drink on Friday, but if you want to go out on Thursday you are stuck.

There is no bus, no connection, there's nowhere to go and if you don't have time to shop or socialise during the week, Aflac. In paddock Wood, a town of 7,500 people, there is no direct service to Pembury Hospital on Sunday. So what message does that send to NHS and patients does that send to NHS and patients without cars? This lack of services is a constituency white issue and disproportionately affects the elderly, disabled and low-income families. It's not just inconvenient, it's unfair.

Then there are those rural villagers who have seen services slashed. The 255 once connected for cursed tool Amherst to Tunbridge Wells but its removal now cuts communities from Royal, shops, pharmacies, GPs and each other. There is no bus at all to Ashurst which is a village 5 miles from Tunbridge Wells which is the nearest shopping and rail centre for them. Parents drop children to neighbouring villages to catch the bus to school and still pay £500 for the privilege.

My constituents are waiting for buses that never come, or watching their roots disappear. Only 25%, over 25% of passengers in Kent are dissatisfied with their bus service and 27% of buses are either late or cancelled. That's why I welcome the provisions in this bill to empower local authorities to protect socially necessary routes, those that get people to school and to healthcare or to work. This is absolutely essential stop we must go further, we need to restore and expand services to tackle prostration and isolation.

I welcome the £23 million pledged by the government to Kent County Counsel for bus service improvement plan that was under the Conservatives and now reform are running Kent County Counsel and frankly I wouldn't trust them to run a bath. Their priorities are not public services, obviously last night we saw the announcement of a doze which is starting at Kent County Counsel is a bit of a joke when we consider that the new CAP reform administration decided to cancel the first iteration of the audit and governance committee, one would assume that would fulfil the same function.

We must have proper local consultation to make sure that this £23 million is spent appropriately and responsibly by the CAP reform administration in Kent. With the right investment and right priorities focused on children, the other Leanne healthcare, we can bring a network wrings people together and not leave them behind.

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Alex Mayer.

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Alex Mayer. I think buses are brilliant so as you said I'm delighted this bill is coming forward on 2 June because coming forward on 2 June because it's my birthday. I thought it was the Minister's way of wishing me the Minister's way of wishing me many happy returns and singles. For too long buses have been in decline and it's great the Minister has been and it's great the Minister has been clear for months he wants to fix this and A1 size approach will not
20:52
Alex Mayer Portrait Alex Mayer MP (Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard, Labour)
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this and A1 size approach will not work. The first guidance on various franchise approaches was excellent and I welcome how the bill simplifies franchising and the government review of enhanced partnerships and the plans within the bill. We need and I believe this bill will help deliver tailored practical options that can work for people in every kind of town, village and city. We can already see some teepees delivering this change, with real substantive control over network design, from 24/7 routes in Portsmouth to a 50% zero emission in Leicester, profit sharing, painted buses, to build identity and loyalty and encourage interchanges.

Teepees already encourage innovation partnership, in the West of England but they buses offered residents free travel across 500 mi throughout the whole of the birthday month, a great gift but more importantly a successful scheme targeting non-boss uses to embed long-term hay view will change. This happened without the need for new legislation, but the need for vision. I will always call for greater public investment in buses but I'm realistic about the economic call that we have been left in by the party opposite and if we want sustainable networks, a key thing we have to do is to grow fair revenue, and here the Department 's guidance is absolutely spot on.

Correctly making a point in line with the National Bus Strategy that "almost full social economic and environmental objectives for the role of the bus can be boiled down to the simple practical and measurable objective to robust Patriot". Might I suggest the order tweak to the bill to better reflect the spirit. We talked about section 1, the purpose, improving performance, accessibility and quality. That's good but my constituents want quantity as well as quality so I wonder if perhaps that could be added into focus minds on growing patronage.

Section 11 has fantastic language in it about disabled users, or prospective users and buses, and that term prospective users could be deployed elsewhere, for instance the Transport Act 2,000 only requires consultation ahead of franchise with both representative of users of local services not respective users. Section 30 gives the Minister hours to set standards for bust ups to improve safety and accessibility. I think that's great but why stop there? Would the Minister not like to have some standards aimed at increasing ridership because we know that poorly maintained bus stops and bus shelters put off according to the Campaign for Better Transport, 22% of people from using the buses.

I looked at section 23, about the grants, whether LTAs could perhaps be incentivised to design grants to increase passenger numbers. Because what's clear is that we need a choose cycle, of more passengers and more fair income, not the spiral of decline have seen previously. And that brings me briefly to socially necessary routes, import but mainly unprofitable. I absolutely agree with the Minister that the list is going to bring some certainty. I wonder if alongside the list LTAs could also be required to produce a transparent and ranked formula and how they calculate if the service is socially necessary which in turn they could use to allocate funding.

This would rightly give local leaders flexibility but it would also allow residents to see what is being prioritised and why and where the cut-off lies for taxpayer support and if we also include the number of journeys in that, and that was made a criterion it could allow residents to save a bus by using it. It will prevent list from becoming fossilised and reduce the risk that those who shout the loudest get the better services, determined by data not dB stop fundamentally LD the shouldn't be pigeonholed as a place of sticking plaster solutions, success will lie the network wide approach.

I know the Minister doesn't plan to create any new passenger negatives but I believe there is a real case to bring bus lane together, physically as more STIs are created. This is a really

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good girl. -- A good bill. I declare an interest as a long-

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I declare an interest as a long- time passenger Eastbourne's bus time passenger Eastbourne's bus routes. The latter of which was voted as one of the U.K.'s top 10 most beautiful bus routes by passengers with the views of Bellingcat. As the birthplace of the world's oldest municipal bus
20:57
Josh Babarinde Portrait Josh Babarinde MP (Eastbourne, Liberal Democrat)
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world's oldest municipal bus service, in 1903, we expect the very best local bus services in Eastbourne. And in light of all these bus-based assets and traditions, Eastbourne residents are ambitious for the bill to go even further in supporting operators to improve the rural liability -- reliability of our service was our local drivers and staff, like Gary Bartlett are legends about operational issues out of their control and port regulation are leaving many residents waiting for delayed buses for some time, and indeed for buses that don't show up at all.

Only recently did Valerie Lee get in touch and tell me that she has been forced to scale steep hills back home because her number hills back home because her number four bus was a no-show. But in particular I want to highlight the physically profound impact that unreliable bus services can have on those who are neurodiverse. Here's what an, whose son is autistic, said to me via email. My son has recently contacted me to say that the 14 me to say that the 14.54 bus that his school have agreed for him to catch each day did not turn up at all.

The bus after that was also late. He is extremely stressed and is melting down with the lightness of getting home and frustrated by the protracted weight for his bus home. I have had to leave him to cry it out as interventions will just exacerbate how he feels. He is shouting, swearing and banging his head against the wall. It's really not a great situation. He is so overwhelmed and stressed, Josh. It's really dreadful here right now. He says an English language GCSE this morning and all he wanted was to be back home as soon as possible.

For an hourly service these excessive delays are totally unacceptable and I must again highlight the impact this has on our vulnerable communities, especially SEND children such as my son. I hope government and indeed operators here that loud and clear. But poor bus services and connectivity hit another vulnerable group in our society as well, patients Eastbourne's district general hospital has lost core services to the conquest Hospital in Hastings over the years, 20 miles away, requiring at least two buses and the best part of a day to get there and back around an appointment.

The hospital trust in nearby Kent has collaborated with operators to create a bus route direct between two of its hospitals. And while ultimately I want a -- bus services reinstated in the meantime we deserve a Kent style hospital bus at the very least and I would urge the government to raid its bill to make routes like this a greater reality in the future.

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I thank him for giving way and he talks about collaboration across borders and County Counsel. I have an issue in my constituency where the local GP practice in Westbourne the local GP practice in Westbourne is being proposed to be closed. There is no bus service in Westbourne for all of the patients Westbourne for all of the patients to be able to get to Emsworth which is over the border into Hampshire county council so does he agree with county council so does he agree with me that there should be provision in the bill to make sure local authorities are working together because people don't see the borders that are covered by local that are covered by local Indeed what's happening in Westbourne sounds very similar to what's happening in Eastbourne, and what's happening in Eastbourne, and I would implore the government as well as local operators to ensure well as local operators to ensure that the needs of people with their health are baked into where this bill goes.

Now we await to all our constituents, particularly our most vulnerable residents to improve bus services for local people. And I stand ready to work with government, stand ready to work with government, local authority, our NHS Trust, local operators and of course passengers to make sure that

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happens. I welcome the Bus Services Bill

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I welcome the Bus Services Bill that the Secretary of State has brought to this place this evening. It has the potential to transform public transport the communities across the country and especially for communities in South Dorset. for communities in South Dorset. Towns and villages across my constituency, passengers are indeed would-be passengers rely on buses to get about in their daily lives. For many they are the only affordable way to get to work, school, hospital, the train station, town hospital, the train station, town centre, or to visit family and friends.

Growing up, I took the bus from my home 10 miles up the road to
21:02
Lloyd Hatton Portrait Lloyd Hatton MP (South Dorset, Labour)
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from my home 10 miles up the road to six form most days. It was a reliable service, and it meant I could get to class. So I know the reliable buses really matter in South Dorset. Yet in recent years we've seen rates cut, services reduced and the reliability of services deteriorate. Leaving many people to feel isolated and many passengers unable to access essential amenities and services. And far too often, as has been mentioned already, private bus operators seem to put profit before passengers.

Now when speaking to constituents, they face poorly connected bus services to the train stations making it difficult to access the national rail network. Perhaps even more troubling, there is no direct bus linked to hospitals in Dorchester, leaving many constituents without transport to essential healthcare. In crossways in my constituency, while some services do exist, there is growing concern that current bus network will not meet the demands of new housing developments. We cannot build homes without building the bus infrastructure that is needed to connect those new homes to nearby towns and services.

And across the growth of important in my constituency, there is now no longer a bus service at all. The grave community have repeatedly told me they feel left behind and cut off from the rest of Portland and nearby Weymouth. This is been hugely isolating and has a huge impact on the ground. Finally, in Southall, cuts to bus services had a devastating effect, especially on elderly constituents who now face real isolation. Some there, it has become almost impossible to get to the town centre in Weymouth or to see a GP.

In each of these communities, we need a change of direction. The Bus Services Bill gives us the tools to change this and to end the postcode lottery of

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Britain's broken buses. Imagined his elderly constituents. I have similar issues in my constituency of Bishop in my constituency of Bishop Auckland where people are telling me they can't even do their shopping anymore because of bus cuts in Shelton. And people, one person and Shelton. And people, one person and she told me that she feels she will have to leave the village she has lived in decades because she is lived in decades because she is losing her eyesight. Does he agree with me that as local authorities get this control but it's important get this control but it's important the user to really look at the needs and put a spoke services on commissions such as to shops and hospitals?

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hospitals? I thank him for the intervention and completely agree with my and completely agree with my honourable friend in his overview that new services were councils look that new services were councils look to put in place must linkup people with services such as GP appointments. With that in mind, I hope that the new powers granted to local authorities such as Dorset council under this bill will enable them to franchise their bus services, and also crackdown on antisocial behaviour and fare evasion.

And I hope that the council can make buses and bus stops much more accessible, particularly for passengers living with disability. From now on, I want to see the future of bus services in Winford, Lulworth, crossways, the grave and Southville defined by local need and by local passengers rather than profit. Dorset council with this bill will be able to work with passengers in each of these communities to deliver bus services which are finally fit for purpose. Fundamentally, these reforms put forward by the government will support integrated travel, helping to link rural areas with larger towns and essential services like hospitals.

And particularly also our national rail networks.

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I've been campaigning for a reliable affordable bus route to Bournemouth Airport. As a fellow Dorset MP, does he recognise the Dorset MP, does he recognise the need for a dedicated service every 30 minutes to the airport, especially as the airport expands

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the number of flights it holds. I'm happy to support his

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I'm happy to support his campaign, and I will be meeting shortly to discuss how they can best support. Bournemouth being the support. Bournemouth being the support. Bournemouth being the , my constituents would certainly benefit from that bus connection. I'm desperate to see the reforms of this bill introduced as rapidly as possible, across South Dorset, which possible, across South Dorset, which is why I plan to write the leader of Dorset council to encourage them to take advantage of the new powers granted in the buses bill as soon as granted in the buses bill as soon as possible.

I look forward to sitting down with council officials to finally improve services for those communities in these areas. And I know that the other bus passengers communities across my constituency will be looking to the local council to use their new powers to improve services in their neighbourhood. We cannot keep treating public transport as an afterthought. Especially our buses. The communities across South Dorset, Labour's Bus Services Bill is a chance to finally reconnect and to deliver good quality bus services for many many more passengers.

It's

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time to crack on. Buses are often seen as a service

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Buses are often seen as a service for the elderly, and they are vital for older residents, especially in rural areas where isolation poses a serious threat to health. Buses can serious threat to health. Buses can be a social lifeline, but in these rural communities, they are also a vital connection to education, vital connection to education, healthcare and work. Bus journeys in Devon have full by 40% since 2015, and my large rural constituency of South Devon, many communities have been left behind by unreliable
21:08
Caroline Voaden Portrait Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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been left behind by unreliable infrequent or inadequate bus services. Many villagers have no bus services at all. Others feel lucky to get one day. The Stagecoach got bus which runs between Peyton and Plymouth Stagecoach withdrew the early morning service last year following consultation with local transport authorities as low passenger numbers meant the service was no longer commercially viable. It may not have been standing remotely by cutting the service is just not good enough for those who start their shift before sunrise and keep our communities running.

One bus driver was left with no choice but to buy a car to get to work as he would have lost his job if you can get to Totnes by 7 AM. Another constituents said these changes disproportionately affect key workers, particularly those in sectors such as healthcare, retail and hospitality who depend on early or late bus services to commute. Many of these workers have few if any alternative transport options. These people are likely among the lowest paid in our community and they will face increased financial and logistical challenges as a result of these cuts.

When Stagecoach relocated the Dartmouth bus depot to Plymouth, the early morning 92 was cut, students can get to college, and local drivers lost their jobs. Stagecoach also cut the 17 in Brixham, so no visitor holidaymaker or hospitality worker can get home after six after 6: 30 p.m. It's hardly a late night out. I welcome the principles behind this bill. It's right to give more powers to local authorities, and it's right to acknowledge the socially necessary routes must be protected. But this legislation has to go further if it is to truly deliver the bus revolution this government claims.

Under the spell local authorities must have the power and funding to keep services running and a duty to implement socially necessary services. It's not just about commuting to work though. Young people in South Devon dependent buses to get to college, but also to access that crucial first Saturday job, to build independence, to gain skills and to put something real on their CVs. When you live in a small village with no shop, cafe or reliable bus, how you meant to getting experience if you can't travel? It's absolute vital for the government's skills agenda.

A well funded reliable robust network doesn't just support today's economy, it builds tomorrow's workforce. We've seen in Ireland what's possible. Bus users increased fivefold since 2018 because the Irish government invested in rural transport and created new services where they were needed. That's the kind of ambition we need. Let's grow our economy by revolutionising rural transport with regular clean, green buses. I wholeheartedly support giving real franchising powers to all the local authorities with simple integrated funding and a focus on net zero buses, but let's not pretend that these powers alone are enough.

Councils need the funding, the staff and the backing to use them. Raising the fair cap from 2 pounds to 3 pounds is also a false economy. For a student or someone on minimum wage, it's a real barrier to access. The cap must be restored and made permanent if we are serious about affordability and ridership and ironing out inequalities. Others like to see authorities like Devon County Council have the power to introduce integrated transport passes like these in London so the people in rural areas to get the bus to get to the station and then take a train in a joined up cost effective user-friendly way.

This bill has potential but it must be packed with the ambition and investment rural communities like mine desperately need. Buses are for everyone, young or old, in cities, villages, even on Dartmoor and this House must deliver an ambitious

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modern system that reflects that. I will say at the outset I will use the full five minutes so buying use the full five minutes so buying take interventions. Buses are a vital route to connecting people with each other and with opportunity. And that's why this opportunity. And that's why this bill to improve bus services is so important. In the Filton and Bradley Stoke constituency, our story is a Stoke constituency, our story is a very mixed one. If you live near a Metrobus or a Y or T1, that's Metrobus or a Y or T1, that's usually pretty quick to get into Bristol city centre but the problems particularise when trying to get across our towns and villages on the outskirts of the city where many of outskirts of the city where many of our places of work and study and many are our loved ones are too.

Many people including those unable to drive, getting to Southmead to drive, getting to Southmead Hospital just next door in the constituency of my Right Honourable neighbour the Member for Bristol neighbour the Member for Bristol North West is all but impossible using public transport because like communities, it's outside the city centre. It's also not uncommon for what would be a 10 minute drive to take around an hour on a bus. Either because of the route or needing to change buses at UE or Bristol Parkway.

Often the stops in the wrong direction and these travel times simply unrealistic so people
21:13
Claire Hazelgrove Portrait Claire Hazelgrove MP (Filton and Bradley Stoke, Labour)
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don't feel they can leave their car at home, even when they want to. As a frequent bus use myself, I know a frequent bus use myself, I know how frustrating all of this can be. When no fault of our own leads to When no fault of our own leads to this, we ate late because of a ghostbuster didn't show up and we are left figuring out what to do at the side of a road. We also had three changes like the 73 so that instead of taking people to the mall, where many people work and shop, the bus now stops part way shop, the bus now stops part way there.

And these the parts of our community to have regular access to a bus. We now have the bizarre scenario where residents in Winterbourne are finally being Winterbourne are finally being served by a bus but only because buses are being redirected through the village for the time being. While the motorway bridge is being rebuilt. I was glad that our New Labour West of England mayor joined my in the community's long-standing calls for a proper solution for people in Winterbourne. And also incredibly fat that our new Labout government is through this bill giving local leaders and communities the opportunity to take back control of local buses, and I was proud to campaign for the side of the election.

I like to encourage fellow residents to fill in my latest survey about their experiences of local buses. After years of Tory underinvestment national and real lack of understanding of how important buses are, vital rates have been lost, but I'm optimistic if other regions can do this, just look at Manchester, Liverpool, South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire, all the different points on their journeys taking great strides forward, then so can we. And we must because people in our community deserve the same opportunities as anyone else anywhere else.



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Thank you. For many years now rural bus services have been dying a rural bus services have been dying a slow death by a thousand cuts. In my constituency of Horsham, we lost bus
21:14
John Milne Portrait John Milne MP (Horsham, Liberal Democrat)
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constituency of Horsham, we lost bus services since 2010 and funding has fallen by as much as 43% in some areas. So this is how it works, we cut the timetable, which means fewer people use it, so we cut the timetable again. Prince Andrew P. In many villages, it's simply impossible to live without a car. Even if you did put bus service back into those villages, no one would use it because the only people who live there now are car users. No wonder economic inactivity in rural communities is nearly 2.5% higher than in urban centres.

Good jobs and an education are literally out of reach. How can we reverse this downward spiral? It's clear that if local authorities step back and rely on commercial operators by themselves, to decide the roots, it's not going to work. And that's exactly what was seen in West To achieve functionality on the number 17, -- Partridge Green had to be dropped altogether at certain times of the day. Pensioners now have to walk over a mile to the nearest stop or pay for expensive taxis.

Residents were not consulted about the cuts, they only found out a few weeks in advance with no time to make other arrangements. Half the village turned to a church meeting to protest and if only we could have harnessed that enthusiasm we might have saved the service but it was too late. The same thing is happening all over again with cuts to the number 63 bus to another village. And that will make it impossible for local communities, commuters to link to Horsham station.

The excuse was punctuality, there was no consultation, again residents had a few weeks notice. And this gets to the heart of why our rural bus service has been in terminal decline. County Counsel is which are the bodies you would expect to have residents interests at heart, can all too easily hide behind a commercial bus operator and say it's all out of their control. No one wants to admit responsibility. We all keep saying that we want to take traffic off the roads and cut pollution.

But in reality, local councils like West Sussex have in presiding over a policy of managed decline. Will this new build enough to reverse it? The bill certainly moves in the right direction -para local authorities to franchise routes, run their own bus companies and demand responsive transport schemes. These are good living looks for a more flexible responsive system. But when I look at West Sussex is clear these freedoms by themselves will not be enough. Even if there were more dynamic leadership.

But setting up your own bus service is of course high risk and high investment strategy. I can see how the urban centres might have the wherewithal to take advantage of these new rights. But for more rural authorities such as my own, they are already on budgetary life support. There's no way they can take on such a gamble. It's going to take something more from government. And that's something it's more funding to kickstart the revolution. So let's fund bus services properly, empower local councils to make the right decisions and ensure affordable accessible transport remains a lifeline for all our communities.

If I had a pound for every time someone mentioned to me buses were not going to where they
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Jon Pearce Portrait Jon Pearce MP (High Peak, Labour)
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needed to go, or when they needed to go there, I could afford to restore most of the bus services we have most of the bus services we have lost over the last decade. One of the Conservatives the vital bus services have disappeared, local services have disappeared, local communities have been left powerless, with no tools to hold the operators to account. We have seen operators to account. We have seen the loss of weight for it, number the loss of weight for it, number 280, 236, 239, ex 18, ex 57, 60 1A, 280, 236, 239, ex 18, ex 57, 60 1A, and recently the 271 leaving many students and commuters were I live in hope valley unable to get to work in hope valley unable to get to work or college in Sheffield.

This trend is has continued all throughout Derbyshire where there has been a Derbyshire where there has been a reduction of over 5 million miles, don't check my maths, driven by don't check my maths, driven by buses between 2010 and 2023, that is the same number of miles as travelling to the moon and back 10 times. This problem is more than statistics. It's lives ruined. I think of the elderly lady who was only able to get to her monthly hospital appointment thanks to the kind of her neighbour.

The assistant manager in Gloucester who could not take the promotion in Buxton to be a manager because the 61 pass did not run large enough for them to be able to get home. I think of that inbox and who loves the theatre but often has to leave shows early in Sheffield because she could not get home any other way. The first campaign I ran as a newly selected significantly less grey candidate was for students in high peak to be able to get free bus travel to colleges in Greater Manchester, like their classmates over the border.

Working with Claire Ward, the East Midlands may, we were able to save families hundreds of pounds a year and ensure the cost was not a consideration for young and deciding what courses to do at college and what careers they dream of doing. These challenges also present themselves with tourism. In part extra tick-tock race, to photograph sunset and sunrise, communities where I live have been plagued by illegal parking. And coordinating a response to issues with local stakeholders like the police and councils, and a key trench of what we need to do is deliver better bus services that are integrated with local train services.

This bill will transfer powers away from Westminster and empower local communities to take decisions necessary for our community -- Archimedes to get to work and our honeypot villages to manage tourism sustainably. For too long people in high peak in Derbyshire have been let down by a Tory government under Tory council who only delivered cuts in isolation. This Better Buses Bill does it exactly what it says on the tin and I look forward to better bus

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services across High Peak. Formica citrusy, like so many

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Formica citrusy, like so many others we have heard, buses are others we have heard, buses are vital, often the only source of public transport available. Essential for access and were, how the appointments, seeing family and
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Emma Foody Portrait Emma Foody MP (Cramlington and Killingworth, Labour )
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the appointments, seeing family and friends. It's why I launched my big survey earlier this year, hearing from hundreds. The response was clear that too many people feel let down due to unreliable transport, especially true for people with disabilities, for families and for older people. Under the previous government we so far to many routes withdrawn, reduced or indeed made less direct, so I thought I would share a few experiences from my residence, that's residence in Holywell and Cedarville who spoke of the withdrawal of the number 19, that they relied on to reach shops, healthcare and social activities.

In Cramlington label people described long waits and no services at all on Sundays, many shared concerns that wall services in city centres exist there's a lack of connectivity between local areas. One constituents said all her work place is a 10 minute drive away, taking the bus requires travelling in the opposite direction first, doubling journey time. Some told me they work-from-home policy of the office more often because they just don't want to face the buses. Another when their car broke down took a week's leave rather than have to face the bus there.

Residents told me replacement services sometimes skip socks entirely without warning, enjoy another resident told me travel to 5 miles they have to take a metro and then a bus because there is no direct route. Massively increasing cost. In wide-open rhyme from, a resident showed how services have reduced. The resident told me that rather than faithfully of the bus, they ran 2 miles to the nearest Metro to avoid being late Jury service. People describe frustration at being unable to get services while others wanted to switch for environmental reasons but without reliable updates they cannot.

This bill could not be more timely for too long to any people have been let down by operators favouring profits for commercial companies over to the public transport local people need and deserve. I share the stories because I think it's important that every time the bus doesn't turn up, every time the route is cut back, every time it doesn't stop, it chips away at people's independence, with every actor stripping local people of their dignity bit by bit, forcing them to rely on others or to do without.

I'm glad this government is going to shift the balance and give local people a greater say. People across the towns and villages in my constituency have told me the system is not working it has to change. Buses in my area are a lifeline and not a luxury and I'm pleased on behalf of those constituents that we are taking action to ensure they get the services they deserve, because

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frankly it can't come soon enough. It is highly unusual for major legislation on buses to be brought forward so early in the life of a forward so early in the life of a government, and fact I think it may be unprecedented. Buses are the most used means of public transport but used means of public transport but they have traditionally received as political attention and other modes political attention and other modes and ministers deserve great credit for securing this legislation so early in this Parliament.

It is
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Laurence Turner Portrait Laurence Turner MP (Birmingham Northfield, Labour)
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early in this Parliament. It is difficult to capture the extent of the hostility to bus regulation that existed in government little more than a decade ago when a spirit for than a decade ago when a spirit for animated first-round to -- win was still meaningful. Although franchising could boast a successful record in London the visceral and ideological opposition to extending it. The coalition and was actively hostile, ministers sought to exclude areas of pursued franchising, known as quality contracts, needing funding and echo of bad old days when the Thatcher government threatened to strip the authority of Metro development funding unless it's miscible bus operations were sold.

The attitude change when George Osborne struck a devolution deal with Richard lease and the late Howard Bernstein that included franchising Greater Manchester, that was less the turning point than a complete reversal, it was rumoured the Department for Transport did not know what the Treasury had agreed. That welcome revolution which found expression in the bus services 2017 was however imperfect and incomplete. Franchising powers were only made available to mayoral authorities who were picked and chosen in Westminster, and the act contained at the and vindictive sting, clause 22 was sort of bought new municipal operation despite great success of surviving miscible operators in places like Nottingham and wedding.

Repeatedly this clause was very late addition to the drafting of the 2017 act so late it had not in quality assured by government lawyers. Indeed, Conservative ministers were forced to concede that the clause would not prevent an authority from acquiring shares in existing bus companies, nor would it prevent an existing company unconnected to bus services from being repurposed. So despite the flaws in the drafting clause 22, born out of spiteful is an political posturing, has had a chilling effect on authorities that may have otherwise pursued a municipal operation.

This bill remedies both failings and will have better services and better law as a result of its passing. There are other welcome provisions in this bill. It will make it easier for operators and authorities to tackle antisocial behaviour and misogyny. It will make services more accessible for disabled passengers and it will accelerate the transition to cleaner, lower emission vehicles, all these measures will make a positive difference in my constituency which sits at the intersection of Birmingham and the county of Worcestershire where there are relatively low levels of car ownership and where a lack of due vision makes it harder for some people to use the bus and where connections are poor.

It may under the leadership of the mayor, the combined authority made the welcome decision to bring bus services back under public accountability and direction. This will enable better timetables, integrated ticketing and services that better connect those areas of the highest unemployment with the business parks where new jobs are being created and it will mean new powers over affairs. -- Over fares. A few days ago, under the version of the scheme agreed by the previous Conservative mayor, operators exercise their legal rights to hike seasonal fares which they did so by 8.6%.

Low paid basket metres deserve better and that is why we need the new powers that Labour is being forward in this bill to better protect passengers from such increases in the cost of living. One of the great pleasures of following other members of the transport Select Committee is that they have made the points about the forthcoming enquiry report much more eloquently than I can. In the time remaining I will say that I hope that report brought forward in time to shape the final drafting and implementation of this important bill and I look forward to supporting it through its latest stages.



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Shrewsbury has waited 10 years for a Labour government to bring forward this bill. Because during forward this bill. Because during the course of the last government our county of Shropshire lost over our county of Shropshire lost over 63% of our bus routes. That is two out of every three buses have been withdrawn and that was due to the withdrawn and that was due to the savage cover to zation which forced bus companies to pursue profits over bus companies to pursue profits over passengers.

For my residence, this means bus routes stripped away from villages that are now cut-off from villages that are now cut-off from vital health and education services, work or leisure. This means we have work or leisure. This means we have no buses after 6.30 PM anywhere in my constituency. This means we have my constituency. This means we have no buses anywhere on a Sunday. In fact in Shrewsbury we haven't seen a
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Julia Buckley Portrait Julia Buckley MP (Shrewsbury, Labour)
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fact in Shrewsbury we haven't seen a In fact we haven't seen a Sunday best for 10 years. The Earl of Shrewsbury is a market town of 65,000 residents. The County Council of Shropshire, hosting public and cultural services for 19 market towns and 400 villages, and yet we are the only county town in this country not to have a Sunday service. It is a disgrace. And the painful symptom of the impact the last government had on public services in towns like mine up and down this country.

The lack of evening services also puts severe constraints on our night-time economy potential for residents to get home safely after work, travel or an evening out. Not everyone can afford to have a car or be able to drive. The population in Shropshire is nine years over the national average, so many older residents have given up their vehicles and find themselves stranded in the evenings, at weekends and in some villages left completely socially isolated. One of my constituents in her 70s Christian heart lives in a residential suburb of Shrewsbury with a very active volunteer in her local community.

Following her recent knee operation last month she became reliant on buses. She can be happy with our new on demand electric minibuses in her area funded by the government's bus services improvement plan, and is such a convert she plans to keep using them even after her recovery. She explained that although she could get were 5 o'clock doctor's appointment, she has no way of getting home because there are no evening buses injuries Breen. I'm regular contacted by employees telling me by the time they finish work at six, they can't get across to the bus station to catch the last bus home so we are preventing residents from getting to and from employment, putting a real block on economic growth.

And this is corroborated by my local Chamber of Commerce who run a quarterly business survey with their businesses. Receive regular feedback every single quarter saying that primary barrier to recruitment is the lack of bus services that run early and late enough to support particularly young people to access employment opportunities. So my sorry tale from Shrewsbury is of a beautiful place which is so very often cut off from those communities and individuals without a car. And the last thing we want to encourages even more congestion and our historic town centre.

Instead we must try to rebuild our public transport system which was dismantled by the Conservatives during their time in office. They should hang their heads in shame. For every one of the 5,000 miles of bus routes they cancelled in towns like mine, for every youngster who can't access a job opportunity, for every pensioner who can't visit a family on Sunday, and for every village cut from public services. 10 years is a long time to wait to be reconnected to the outside world.

But the good people of Shrewsbury will today be celebrating as we debate this Bus Services Bill which will give back the powers to local authorities to enable them to run services for passengers and not just for profits. The bill introduces a new clause allowing the socially necessary routes to linkup medical, educational public services to the local community with stops and times that empower them and not just the operator. Finally, by changing the law away from exclusive privatisation we can move forwards to a responsive community led model our public transport authorities.

This bill won't just improve lives in trees pre-. It will transform lives, transform operations and transform the well-being of my residents who have waited a decade that a Labour government to give us back our Sunday service.

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Final Backbench contribution.

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Final Backbench contribution. Thank you. I'm pleased to speak in support of the Bus Services Bill today and as a public transport user, I know that our buses don't user, I know that our buses don't always work for the people and communities they purport to serve. For many of us a privatised system with only a handful of companies running routes and setting fares has
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Harpreet Uppal Portrait Harpreet Uppal MP (Huddersfield, Labour)
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running routes and setting fares has led to rising ticket prices without the reliability to go with it. London is relatively well-run and highly regulated system has been an outlier in Britain until recent years. That is until we had some labour Metro Mayors you have made some change. Despite having the busiest bus station in West Yorkshire before the pandemic, bus services in Huddersfield have declined by more than 1/5 between 2010 and 2023, and we know this decline isn't just a local issue.

It reflects a wider pattern of regional underinvestment. The historical disparities between London and the North are stark. In 2017 London received 944 per person on transport spending whilst Yorkshire and the Humber received just 335. If the North had received the same amount per person as London between 2008 and 2019, then 66 billion more would have been spent on the North. So this legislation is long overdue, and this is a starting point to turn this around.

A few weeks ago at a coffee morning with local residents in Netherton, the key issue was buses, inconsistent timetables, unreliable services and the local village being withdrawn. Making it harder for people to get to work, appointment or just to see family and friends. So I do welcome the government's investment in transport in our region, including 36 million for West Yorkshire's buses. As part of these investment, and glad to see the launch of the fully integrated Arriva transport network by our West Yorkshire mayor, a nod to our textiles heritage.

But we know funding isn't alone... Isn't enough on its own, and we need a system that gives local areas the powers to design services around local need, and this bill does take some the right direction. In West Yorkshire we will see our first public buses go into public control from 2027. And it will allow more flexible local responsive integrated mass transport networks and will finally get a tram in West Yorkshire, which is absolute fantastic. And as with recognising local employers like Huddersfield, so when you sit on a bus, the fabrics on the buses are likely to come from a textile firm in Huddersfield.

And that includes buses, trams, trains and the Tube in London. So shows how transport investment supports not just passengers but skilled towns, skilled jobs in towns like mine. And of course I just want to mention a couple of things on safety, we know that for many people accessing bus stations, bus stops or buses at night are very difficult so making sure we have the CCTV and save travel offices will be really important. And we do know there has been inequity in bus service cuts so low income areas have seen them cut more deeply than more affluent areas, and this isn't just unfair, it's back to health, but for growth and equality.

So this bill is a foundation to get the imputation right with strong local powers, fair funding and a focus on equity. We can rebuild trust in our bus network and create a system that truly works for everyone. Thank you.
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Jerome Mayhew Portrait Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)
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Shadow Minister. debate. One of the great benefits of winding up a debate is that you do get forced to sit and listen to absolutely everything. And most of it I've enjoyed. There are one or two I haven't, and it's up to honourable members to work out whether I am talking about them, but the contributions have been enlightening because it exposes the economic and political philosophy differences between the parties. We had the liberal Democrats who one after the other argued for improved services, particularly rural services but were less clear on how to fund them.

And from Labour's benches, there was a huge amount of optimism and enthusiasm for this bill under the perhaps mistaken belief that it's actually on itself going to improve passenger services for their constituents. Because the truth is, that if you actually look at the terms of the bill, it's clear that its focus, the focus of this reform is not primarily about improving bus services for passengers. Quite the contrary. Because in the other place, Labour whipped its peers to vote against what is now clause 1, making the improvement of the performance accessibility and quality of bus services in Great Britain the purpose of this bill.

I take this opportunity to add my birthday wishes to the honourable member fur Leighton Buzzard and make a plea on her behalf to her lips that they are not too harsh on her for her support of clause 1, perhaps she was unaware that it was opposed by her own party in the other place. So why is it that this bill doesn't want to make the improvement of performance at its heart or rather the government doesn't want to. Well it's because it's not the bill's primary intention.

Labour's true focus was set out in the wording of the Kings Speech, and I quote, is about, " Accelerating the bus jazzing process and building on the success of public bus services still in operation." No mention there of passengers, performance, improvements or cost control. It's the structure of the bus providers that has excited the government. They intend to increase the number of municipal bus companies, presumably because they think that civil servants are better equipped to run an efficient bus companies in the private sector operators, and I can see that in some examples it is possible.

I spoke to the managing director of Warrington bus company last week and I was impressed by the performance figures, but it is very unusual. But their faith does not translate into confidence that these new municipal bus companies could win a competitive tender, since this bill perhaps inadvertently allows local authorities to do away with competition. Extraordinarily, as currently drafted, it would allow any local authority to create firstly a new municipal bus company and then to grant itself a franchise without any competitive process.

Now if that's deliberate, it really would be the triumph of socialist political ideology that the state is somehow better. Now franchising is an alternative solution. Potentially allowing greater coordination for transport provision, but it does, at a cost. It takes commercial risk away from the bus operators and puts it in the hands of local authorities. It requires dynamic contract, design and management skills, and its necessarily complex and if done badly, risks the removal of the innovative power of the private sector, placing it with state direction.

Let me say again, what my honourable friend the Member for organ made abundantly clear at the opening of this debate, we do not oppose bus franchising in principle. We support it in fact where it delivers value for money and above all where it improves services for passengers. But what we've seen from the government today is a refusal to engage with the very real risks embedded in this bill. The existing 2017 legislation has been referred to more than once during the debate.

It recognises that mayoral combined authorities of the scale and the resources needed to manage the development of franchise model, but even here, political ineptitude and may or hubris can make a mess of it. Andy Burnham's B network has been touted as the socialist model to follow, and hear it from the front bench right now, but let's have a look at what has actually happened in Manchester. Buses that cross the private sector £180,000 cost Andy Burnham £220,000. Bus depots that cost the private sector less than £4 million cost Andy Burnham more than £12 million.

In fact nearly £30 million. Private sector bus companies, train sufficient staff for their need while Andy's team having failed to secure enough train drivers is in the absurd position of drivers is in the absurd position of having to pay more than 400 agency staff to drive their bosses at inflated hourly rates and with accommodation costs on top, and the cost to the taxpayer, is estimated cost to the taxpayer, is estimated at £17.4 million a year and rising. So who is focusing on cost reductions in Manchester? Let's not the bus companies.

It's not their job to reduce costs any more. In fact, the bigger the overall contract cost, the more profit they make. Require them to give above inflationary pay rises to unionised staff as Andy Burnham has done, no problem. It goes on the bill, and they get a profit percentage on top. Require them to donate to charity, as Andy Burnham has done, no problem. Just added to the bill, and get a profit percentage on top. Profits go up as the size of the contract increases.

At the same time as Labour claim increased value for money because of the much touted reduced profit percentage, and the taxpayer is quietly fleeced. This is the doublespeak of labours value for money. So was the real cost of labour's return to on the buses? Had Andy Burnham stuck to his own business plan, after the transition period, the B network should have been profitable. But because of his self aggrandising hubris and statist ineptitude, the loss for this year alone is forecast to be £226 million and likely to rise further in the years ahead.

That's £1 billion in under four years. And that's in a mayoral combined authority, although admittedly a Labour one. And has it worked to increase traveller numbers? Well between 22 and 24, Greater Manchester has experienced a 34.34% increase in ridership. Let's look at Norfolk, its enhanced Let's look at Norfolk, its enhanced partnership has increased by 40%. A Conservative run council with an enhanced partnership, it increased ridership by 52.3%. In the wider context, Greater Manchester has in fact underperformed.

So crucial safeguards, crucial safeguards, that ensured franchising was rolled out by authorities with at least the national capacity to deliver? Why has Labour walked away from giving the Secretary of State power to intervene if the worst happens and services fail? Why does this will not require a competitive tender process and local authorities decide to run their own bus companies? Labour appears content to let any council regardless of size, experience, expertise or cash reserves, to take on these huge financial and organisational risks, that's not empowering the government.

That setting it up to fail. And that's before we talk about money. These franchising powers are meaningless without the money to implement them. As my honourable friend made clear, just £243 million on the 1 billion promised by Labour is destined for actual bus services. That does not even satisfy Andy Burnham's bus habit for year. So what about the rest of the country? Without brilliance of literally billions of pounds to backup this bill, it is just posturing. So where's the money? The answer is, there isn't any.

They have scrapped the conservative 2 pounds bust fair, it's rumoured even the 3 pounds bust fair is due for the chop. Perhaps the Minister can confirm. Governments as they have a plan for passengers but it seems the plan is to make passengers pay more. The bill needs to have improvement of passenger services at talks, to encourage the innovation deficiency of the private sector, it needs to consider vulnerable children with their educational needs and recognise the huge financial risk and provide appropriate oversight and support and most importantly, it needs a government prepared to think again on committee and be open to improvements to this bill.

Before I call the minister, can I remind members, and I appreciate I'm largely preaching to the choir, that it's expected the members attend for windups when they have spoken in a debate. To date many members have not had the opportunity to be called but have sat here throughout and might point that out to their colleagues.
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Simon Lightwood Portrait Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
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Thank you. I thank all members for their participation in today's lively debate, spanning across the House, and I don't intend to take interventions due to time, and out of courtesy to members have spoken I intend to respond to this letter I can. I would like to wish my honourable friends 'Happy Birthday', about the surprise just for you. My honourable friend the Secretary of State set out by the government introduced this bill. Buses are the most public form of public transport, make up to 50% of all public transport trips in England in 2023.

They connect people to opportunities, to jobs they wouldn't otherwise be able to take, and give freedom to those otherwise facing isolation. Despite all of this, many communities have experienced a familiar pattern of bus services being carte and fares going up, with the deregulation of buses in the 1980s leaving local areas with three options. local leaders are best placed to make decisions about how to improve their bus services in their areas and through this bill, we are giving them the tools to do so.

Stakeholders have been engaged with and in developing these measures implemented will give us further opportunity of implementation. My honourable friends for Hayward and Middleton North and the honourable member printing and the Isle of Wight spoke about franchising. To make decisions effectively, local leaders need all possible options on the table and this includes bus franchising. It allows local transport authorities to take control of bus services by determining the roots, service specification and performance targets for operators. Greater Manchester the first area in England outside of London franchise has seen notable successes so far but punctuality and patronage across the network.

I do recognise that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to franchising stopped different models such as the Jersey model make suitable areas better. The government is determined to put power over local services back in the hands of local leaders across England. That is why the Department recently allocated over £700 million of bus grants to local authorities in 25/26. I want to address the comments about the cost franchising for Greater Manchester, according to data, franchising delivered on time, and the agreed budget of £134.5 billion and this included the whole process including the acquisition of assets like bus depots.

Without the changes made in Greater Manchester, under franchising, the bus network will be smaller, less attractive to passengers and more expensive to run and use. A number of Members referred to socially necessary local services and rural. Transport authorities who provide their services under an enhanced agreement will need to identify socially necessary local services in their area and include them in the enhanced partnership. Local transport authorities will need to consider the alternative options that are available to mitigate the negative impact on bus services options like the bus services and committee transport that may work better for rural areas.

By increasing the level of transparency increasing the level of transparency around decision-making on changes and requiring consideration of alternative arrangements, impact of any changes to bus networks will be fully assessed. With regard to real services, this is an important issue. And as I've mentioned, no one size will solution exists. Local transport authorities in rural areas better understand the needs of their local communities and it is right that they are given the opportunity to determine what is right for the area.

Honourable members referred to the fair cap. The Secretary of State the fair cap. The Secretary of State set out that the government has confirmed a £1 billion of funding to support and improve bus services in England and keep fares affordable. We also talked about consolidating bus funding by bringing it together funding for bus service improvement plan supporting services under one authority bus grant for the first time. Officials will work with stakeholders to develop and implement a new bus grant allocation for future funding.

I want to create a fairer and simpler formula for bus funding that takes into account local needs. The number of bids raised important points about accessibility and floating bus stops. The government is committed to safe and accessible bus transport. This matter was debated in the other place in great detail and the government fully appreciates concerns raised about the accessibility of funding bus stops. The goal is to ensure that all passengers are able to travel with confidence and that bus stations and stops will meet their access needs and they will be designed features that promote personal safety.

We know that more needs to be done to make these insulations are sensible for all. The Department is working with Transport for London to provide guidance and undertake research to address gaps. The Member full North Antrim, and Woodstock mentioned the innovative zero emission buses being produced here. This government in support of the efforts and elevation of UK manufacturers. From at about 60% of zero emission buses in regional areas, zebra funding, absolutely procured. In March I chaired the first UK bus manufacturing expert bringing together industry experts and local leaders to ensure the cake remains a leader in bus MFG.

-- To ensure the UK remains. I commit to writing to the member on the eligible of the of those buses for MHC LG funding that he mentioned. To draw my remarks to close, the bill is about choice. Forceful local leaders to decide how the bus networks can best serve local people, it is a passenger first approach. I think it picked boats a thousand words and a picture of the party opposite tells me they don't really care about buses.

This bill is a critical part of the bus bill is a critical part of the bus reform agenda and I thank all those who have contributed to today's debate. It has been a wide-ranging and really useful opportunity to discuss these important issues. I look forward to continuing discussion at committee stage, perhaps with a few more opposition

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numbers. I beg to move. -- Opposition was. The question is that the bill be

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The question is that the bill be read a second time. As many are of that opinion say, "Content", and of that opinion say, "Content", and of

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that opinion say, "Content", and of The ayes have it. Programme motion to be moved formally. I beg to move.

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I beg to move. The question is as on the Order Paper. As many as are of that opinion say Thai. Of the country
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None Portrait Motion on behalf of the Committee of Selection: Statutory Instruments (Joint Committee)
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opinion say Thai. Of the country know. The ayes have it. Money motion to be moved formally. The question
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22:00
Steve Witherden Portrait Steve Witherden MP (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr, Labour)
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I thank him for giving way. There was a report in the Guardian newspaper which suggested that despite the suspension of key arms export licences to Israel, back in September, UK firms have exported thousands of military items including missions to Israel,

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including... I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. Question is that this House do

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Question is that this House do The exports have included items such as bombs, grenades, torpedoes, such as bombs, grenades, torpedoes, missiles and similar munitions. As my honourable friend agree that it's completely conceivable that these completely conceivable that these weapons have been used to kill and maim children in Gaza and therefore the only humane and reasonable option is for us to suspend all of the arms export licences to Israel the arms export licences to Israel and to ensure that no British manufactured munitions are going to

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Netanyahu's Israel? Good I thank my honourable friend

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Good I thank my honourable friend for his intervention? Very easy intervention for me to respond to. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Since October 2023, there have been at least 14 shipments of military goods from the UK to Israel. These include over 8,500 to munitions, bombs, grenades, missiles, and 146 armoured vehicle parts. In October 2023

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bullets. I thank my honourable friend for giving way, and he makes some giving way, and he makes some excellent points, but since October, 2023, action on armed violence 2023, action on armed violence analysis identified over 500 RAF linked flights from Akrotiri to Israel airspace. While described as reconnaissance, the MoD refuses to confirm whether any carried military cargo. Does my honourable friend agree with me that the Minister must agree with me that the Minister must confirm without delay what was the exact purpose of these flights, have any of their transported military any of their transported military equipment to support Israel, and has the UK conducted surveillance over Gaza, and has any intelligence been Gaza, and has any intelligence been used with the ITF? If RAF assets were operating during incidents, is there not clear evidence of serious IHL violations, and a duty to share all the relevant intelligence with the ICC without delay?

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I thank her for her intervention. This is something I will be touching on later on in my speech. And I also on later on in my speech. And I also hope we will be getting some answers on those exact points in due course. on those exact points in due course. Between October and December 2024, this Labour government approved this Labour government approved £127.6 million in single issue arms licences to Israel. More than the licences to Israel. More than the total approved from 2020 to 2023 total approved from 2020 to 2023 combined.

My honourable friend the Coventry South was accused of Coventry South was accused of sensationalism for highlighting this to the Foreign Secretary, but these are the governments own figures. Included in that total is £60 million in incorporation licences, up from just 2 million in the up from just 2 million in the previous quarter, and this begs the question why have single and incorporation licences surged since we took office and after the so- called suspension? And remember, open licences aren't included in these figures. Meaning the true scale of UK military exports to Israel remains unknown and unaccountable.

The report also exposes that despite pledging to halt F-35 shipments directly to Israel, evidence suggests the UK continues supplying crucial components. These jets, 15% British made, fuel relentless attacks on Gaza, registering over 15,000 flight hours since October 2023, dropping

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indiscriminately. One horrific example of why we

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One horrific example of why we must stop supplying the parts for must stop supplying the parts for the F-35 fighter jets is that the attack last July, F-35/£2000 bombs attack last July, F-35/£2000 bombs on a designated safe zone in Gaza, killing 90 civilians, injuring 300. The use of such power for munitions The use of such power for munitions in densely populated areas is clearly a violation of international clearly a violation of international humanitarian law. Key parts for F- 35's carrying out that attack may well have come from Britain.

They clearly happened in other attacks, so if you want to avoid any complicity in Israeli war crimes,

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complicity in Israeli war crimes, that we need to stop these exports immediately? I thank him for his intervention

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I thank him for his intervention and I'm very glad the attack was mentioned. And I wholeheartedly agree again with the sentiments expressed by the honourable member. Freedom of Information data reveals the F-35 open general export licence being used 14 times to export Israel in 2023, three times as much as any in 2023, three times as much as any The The US The US run The US run F-35 The US run F-35 maintenance The US run F-35 maintenance program has robust traceability.

Therefore the government supplies of F-35 companies to Israel without undermining the global F-35 supply chain does not stand up to scrutiny. And this raises serious questions about the U.K.'s legal duty to prevent genocide. Yet the weapons

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continue to flow. Does the honourable member share

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Does the honourable member share my concern that some equipment like drone engines may be being exported to Israel without the need for to Israel without the need for export licences, potentially getting into the hands of military into the hands of military organisations, perhaps not directly drop bombs but to engage in other military activity like providing military activity like providing reconnaissance and decoys? And what he support requirement for all items that can be used within a military that can be used within a military conflict zone to be exported requiring a full licence and the public knows exactly where UK

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businesses are engaging? I think the honourable member races some really important points races some really important points there, and I'm in agreement with that intervention. When reviewing that intervention. When reviewing arms export licences to Israel, the UK must also consider violations across the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including the West Bank where Palestinians face home demolitions, forcible displacement, and settler violence, actions breaching the fourth Geneva Convention and risking UK legal obligations under the arms export criteria.

The Foreign Secretary's recent condemnation of Israel's actions as monstrous was welcome. But incomplete. For my very same government continues to facilitate such actions. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot condemn atrocity whilst simultaneously fuelling the machinery that enables it. We cannot claim to uphold international law while profiting from its breach. I urge the Minister to respond fully and not with platitudes but with

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accountability. Can I commend the honourable gentleman for bringing this forward? gentleman for bringing this forward? I spoke to him beforehand, and showed him my intervention and have showed him my intervention and have his permission to do that. The member will understand the need to bring an end to this war and bring bring an end to this war and bring hope to the children of the region. However I would ask if the honourable member would also acknowledge that Israel is still under attack daily and cannot be left with no means to defend herself and those who hide among civilian targets? We must ensure the actions taken here do not simply reset the gauge of casualties.



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gauge of casualties. I do agree with the honourable member that all countries have the member that all countries have the right to defend themselves. And I have condemned the file events of have condemned the file events of October 7 in other places and do so again here. All countries have the right to defend themselves. But no country has the right to commit war crimes. Despite the International Court of Justice's ruling that there is a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza, the UK continues to authorise arms exports to Israel, making us in potential breach of our obligations under the Genocide Convention, the Geneva conventions, and the arms treaty.

In the hearing of Al Haq versus Secretary of State for Defence Business and Trade, it was revealed that the government decided there was no serious risk of genocide back in July 2024. Yet in Parliament we are told the government is waiting on a court determination, and in court we are told it's not for the courts to decide as these treaties are not incorporated into domestic law but are Parliament's responsibility. I asked the Minister if not Parliament or the courts, who is the government accountable into the decision to continue to transfer arms to Israel, potentially breaching international law and facilitating a genocide? Will the government publish its most recent assessment of the risk that Israel is committing genocide?

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I thank him for his very powerful speech. And I echo his call on the government to publish its most recent assessment of the risk of genocide. With the honourable member agree with me that it makes a mockery of our obligation under international law to prevent international law to prevent genocide if our government says that the only way can judge it is after genocide has been conclusively genocide has been conclusively proved in court to have happened? Does not our obligation to act to Does not our obligation to act to prevent genocide mean that we should stop all arms exports to the Israeli stop all arms exports to the Israeli government now? In the face of the clear evidence of war crimes and

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indeed genocide in Gaza? I'm in a special agreement in the

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I'm in a special agreement in the importance of preventing these things, and I will be very eager to as I'm sure the honourable member will be to hear from the Minister in relation to these comments. Let us turn to the government's own assessments. In the same hearing, it was revealed that by September 24, Israel had launched tens of thousands of airstrikes and killed over 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza. The public are being told to trust our judgement on the weapons this country is sending to a state conducting a genocide.

It's the same government that after reviewing 413 incidents, determined only 0.5% of these potentially violated international humanitarian law. Not a single incident involving only the deaths of Palestinians was deemed even possibly unlawful. While the Foreign Secretary repeatedly talks about the U.K.'s robust licensing regime, the reality is that British export data is notoriously opaque. I asked the Minister, can the government confirm whether it has reached a new assessment since September, and if so disclose this to the public? If the government is truly confident in the legality of its exports, will publish custom codes, product descriptions and a full paper trail from centre to end user? And I would ask what this level of opaque city be tolerated if it were British citizens under the rubble? We are repeatedly told that the UK arms exports are defensive in nature.

Reduced to nothing more than helmets or goggles. But let's be clear, the government has never defined what defensive means. Especially when exports include components the F-35 fighter jets capable of dropping £2000 bombs on densely populated areas. Since September 2024 there's been no evidence that UK exports were limited to nonlethal equipment or that they were not intended for use in Gaza. The government doesn't claim that it's too difficult to track where these weapons and up. Instead it invokes vague concerns about international peace and security as though suspending exports to Israel would somehow endanger global stability, including support for Ukraine.

But this is a false dichotomy. Palestinian lives are not less valuable. The F-35 program is one of the most sophisticated supply chains on earth. If we wanted to, we could track every part. The real question is, do we want to? I ask the Minister how does the government define a weapon as defensive? What precisely makes an F-35 component defensive? It's the government's position that the need to continue to supply F-35 components outweighs the risks of genocide, and if so, is there any circumstance that would lead to the UK stopping that supply? The government has claimed that there are red lines.

That would trigger a halt to exports. But Garcia is already a slaughterhouse. Children are emaciated or dying of hunger. Hospitals have been intentionally destroyed. Israel's leaders failed to wipe out Gaza. And still, the weapons flow. So finally, I asked the Minister, where is our redline? I call on this government to suspend all arms exports to Israel to ensure that no British made weapons are used in Israel's brutal plans to annex, staff, and ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population.

The credibility of this House depends on not just what we condemn but on what we enable. And history will remember we enabled too
22:16
Douglas Alexander Portrait Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP, Minister of State (Department for Business and Trade) (Lothian East, Labour )
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I'm responding on behalf of the government on this issue and I thank my honourable friend the member for Montgomeryshire. This important and timely rate. First sitting out the policy and then setting out the government approach to transparency that formed a key part of my honourable friends's contribution. It's accepted on all sides of this House that as the government has made clear the horrors witnessed was not an act of liberation but an act by Hamas. The many months of this conflict the UK Government has made the case for an immediate ceasefire, release of all the hostages detained, the protection of civilians, access for aid and aid workers to Gaza and the need for a path to long-term peace and in the region.

So the responsibility of our mass is clear, but so too is the appalling material prices which have since unfolded in Gaza as result of Israel's subsequent actions. The win which Israel is conducting its operations is indefensible, disproportionate and in the view of UK Government, counter-productive to any lasting peace settlement. Government policy remains that the only weight to secure peace and stability is through an immediate ceasefire and the release of the hostages held captive, the protection of civilians and the lifting of all this really restrictions on aid being sent to Gaza.

Last month at the United Nations Security Council, UK Government made the case for urgent humanitarian aid to into Gaza and interspersed our outrage at the thickening of Palestinian Red Cross Red Crescent workers and the strokes on the UN office for except this compound in March. We also issued a statement with 27 international partners on the mechanisms needed to deliver those vital aid supplies. And together leaders of France and Canada, we made clear our strong opposition to the latest expansion of Israel's military operations.

We of Israel's military operations. We turn, to the actions taken by this government in support of the statements. We have supported the restoring of funding for UNRWA and suspended arms analysis, suspended humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian territories in the last financial year and the government has decided to suspend negotiations on the rated free trade agreement with the Israeli government.

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Last week the Foreign Secretary, who before last Foreign Minister said that we were suspending arms said that we were suspending arms negotiation yet just last week we negotiation yet just last week we had a trade envoy visiting Israel saying how wonderful it was to be there. Can the Minister explain how those two matters do not contradict

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each other. There are long-standing relationships of trade and economics relationships of trade and economics with Israel including for example one in eight of the prescribed drugs available through the National available through the National Health Service being provided by an Health Service being provided by an Israeli company so we have taken a clear position of not upgrading the free trade agreement Patrick nursing free trade agreement Patrick nursing that those suppliers are important. In terms of the trade envoy rules that several letters accountable to the Secretary of State in the Department for Business and Trade and we were clear he would not directly deal with the Israeli government when he was there and has no responsibility for the free trade agreement negotiations that would otherwise have taken place in the coming months.

Let me turn to the specific issue, let me make more progress and then all take further interventions, let me turn to the issue of export licensing. The Foreign Secretary commissioned an immediate assessment with international who material law. It was on the basis of assessment that on 2 September last year, we suspended arms export licences for items to the IDF that could be used in military operations in Gaza. As a result of this decision, licences were suspended for a range of equipment, stopping the export of fighter aircraft components of Parts that make unarmed aerial vehicles.

This measure is to do in place and I would like to reiterate that based on a current assessment of potential breaches of international humanitarian law, were not licensing military equipment provided directly to the IDF that could be used for military operations in Gaza. It is right to acknowledge our export licences wanted in relation to Israel cover a wider remit than simply those items that may used in Gaza will stop there are a relatively small number of licences for the IDF relating to equipment which we assess would not be used in the current conflict including for example parts for a including for example parts for a different systems...

We also think it is right for us to continue providing military grade armour used by non-governmental organisations and journalists and to provide parts of the supply chain which ultimately re-exported back out of Israel to support the defence of our NATO allies. This government is fully committed to upholding our responsibilities under domestic and international law and has acted in a manner consistent with our legal obligations including under the arms trade treaty and the genocide Convention. On the global F 30 program we are facing a critical moment of European security with war on the continent at our neighbours doorsteps.

Undermining the 35 program at this juncture would in the view of the government disrupt international peace and security, data deterrence and European defence as a whole. Let me fulfil the explanation and then I will be happy to take interventions. In relation to components for the F 30 aircraft are exporters provide these global and the common production line for new aircraft where they have no side and no control over the specific ultimate end users for the export. Plainly, it is not possible to suspend licensing of F 30 components for use by one F-35 nation without ceasing supply to the entire global F-35 program.

It was therefore judged necessary by the government to exclude F-35 components from the scope of the suspension but let me be clear, the UK government is not selling F-35 opponents directly to the Israeli authorities and the licence that allows the export of F-35 components was amended in September to specifically make clear that direct shipments to Israel for use in Israel are not permitted.

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The Member mentioned about the

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The Member mentioned about the red lights the government has, the red lines that would make the red lines that would make the government stop sending F-35 parts but Minister has been frankly it is not possible to stop sending F-35 not possible to stop sending F-35 parts, if there are red lines and how are we not at those red lines at how are we not at those red lines at this point given what is happening in Gaza, what exactly is going on here?

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here? We are not directly sending Pastor Israel for the F-35, we are continuing to support the global component of the programs for the reasons I set out in my remark switches we judge as a government switches we judge as a government that there is a material risk to the

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I am grateful to him forgivingly. I want to understand who is making the rules over the spare parts. the rules over the spare parts. Surely if we are trading into that pool we have got a right to set the rules and if those components are going on to F-35 being bought by Israel, we have a right to block Israel, we have a right to block those parts or to kick Israel out as

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we did in 2019 with Turkey. We make approximately 15% of the

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We make approximately 15% of the components that contribute to the F-35 programme about the F-35 program is an international programme of which we are one partner. We continue to supply this program because our judgement as a program because our judgement as a government is not doing so with undermining the continuing function of the programme which as I said in the government view is of critical importance both to European and global security. I have given away number of times. The government has made these judgements calmly and soberly and will continue to do so with full awareness of our responsibility.

I turn now to the question of transparency. As the UK government we publish quarterly Official Statistics Order Daniel report about export licences granted and refused. We provide a searchable database allowing users to produce bespoke reports, drawing on this data and we are committed to openness and strategic export licensing with provide means for Parliament and the public to hold us to account. These are... I'm keen to make more progress. These are exceptional circumstances and so we have heard request from Members on both sides of the House to release further details including information on licence applications in progress and as full information as we can disclose on the types of attack covered by each licence, recognising the exceptional nature of the issue and wanting to provide robust information, in December we laid in the library of the House exceptional release of export licensing data focused specifically on Israel, plainly setting out how many licences remain at that time, Harry have been granted since June 2024, and how many have been refused.

Summarise that release I wish to assure numbers of this House that remaining licences relate to other non-military items, military items for civilian use, items not for use in military operations in Gaza. These licences also extend to components in items for re-export to other countries. It is those in need Israel, ongoing licensing applications are also decided on this basis. In fact of the 352 licences as of 6 December, 191 related to non-military licences. These included components of commercial aircraft components, equipment for private manufacturing firms and parts for submersible vessels for use in scientific research.

That left 161 licences relating to military equipment however of these, less than half related to the government of Israel or the idea. Instead, most related either to UK components that private is ready, and would incorporate before re-entering an item to 1/3 party or related to literary gait equipment for civilian such as body armour for journalists and NGOs. I can advise the House recent reporting on this topic does not provide distinctions between items for civilian and literary use or items remaining in Israel or for re-export.

The UK is not allowing the direct export of arms for use in Israel's military operations in Gaza.

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I thank him for giving way. Taking back to the point of the Taking back to the point of the international pool of F-35 space is international pool of F-35 space is at the government's contention that a conditional licence is possible, that is that we can provide spares that is that we can provide spares on the condition that they are not sent to Israel to be used in Gaza?

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sent to Israel to be used in Gaza? I'm acutely conscious of the time, the exclusion from the decision should not in principle apply to licences for F-35 apply to licences for F-35 components which could be a divide is going to Israel for you. Exports of components directly to Israel are therefore suspended unless these are therefore suspended unless these are for re-export. Let me return to the specific point which I know has been a subject of much scrutiny in relation to recent reporting outside of this House.

The majority military licences approved last year from components of military items for re-export to third countries, including to that UK's NATO allies, of around 142 million of military goods licence for Israel in 2024, the vast majority of that overall value was supporting the production of items for use outside of Israel. This includes more than £120 million or around 85% of the total licence value, for components to support exports of military items from Israeli companies to a single programme for a NATO allies.

These remaining licences have no utility in military operations in Gaza. The suspension of such licences was not required by export licence criteria and would have done nothing except harm UK companies and UK businesses engaged in authorised and legal trade. Since September, we have refused all licence applications for sugars that might used by Israel in the current conflict in line with the suspension decision, or applications were refused in 2024 than in the preceding four years

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The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion say, "Aye." Of the contrary, "No." The ayes have it.
This debate has concluded
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