Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Motion: Business of the House (Today) Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)

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Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say I, I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to the Select Committee statement on behalf of the Procedure Committee. Cat Smith will speak for up to ten minutes, during which no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of her statement,

19:40

Select Committee Statement: Select Committee Statement on the First Report of the Procedure Committee, Written Parliamentary Questions, HC 49

conclusion of her statement, members may ask questions on the subject of the statement, which must be brief questions, not full speeches. I call Cat Smith.

19:41

Cat Smith MP (Lancaster and Wyre, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the Procedure Committee has now concluded our in-depth review of the written parliamentary question the written parliamentary question system, and we were pleased to publish our report just before the conference recess. I'd like to conference recess. I'd like to thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting time for this statement today. I'd also like to put on record my thanks to current and former members of the Procedure Committee for their thoughtful consideration throughout the inquiry, and my committee regularly reviews the performance of departments in answering written parliamentary questions.

But there was a sense that the wider review was needed and for the benefit of the House. The context of that was that the written parliamentary questions system really wasn't working for MPs. The numbers of questions had risen drastically and the responses weren't keeping pace or, frankly, meeting our expectations when it came to terms of quality. And equally, we knew that the government and the House administration were under pressure to deliver in a system that was at risk of being overwhelmed.

So we launched our inquiry in November 2025, and we ran a survey of MPs and received written evidence and heard in person from opposition front benches and groups of backbenchers. I'd like to thank the many colleagues from across the House who gave evidence to the committee, and we know that colleagues are not always satisfied with government responses to PQs. We know that this feeling has increased in the context of the number of PQs also increasing sharply. The theme that we heard was that there were frustrations amongst colleagues that a small number of MPs submitting a disproportionate number of questions, which could be construed as an abuse of the system.

Members who make restrained and focussed use of the Dudley PQs system for their parliamentary work are being effectively adversely affected by this, and the system overall needs to be based on a lower volume of input, but a higher quality of output when it comes to responses from the government. So the flip side of our efforts is to alleviate some of the pressures in the system, is that we think that MPs should expect better responses from the government, and we heard concerns that some Dudley PQs have been tabled with limited member involvement.

We are clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we are proceeding in Parliament and therefore should always be initiated by elected members. Indeed, we can't send our staff to come and speak in oral questions for us, nor should we expect our staff to be tabling DWP UQs without seeing them. At present, this is reflected by the hard copy PQs needing our signature on. If we're to table them that way at the table office, and we believe that it should be reflected by the modern day modern tabling system, so that we recommend that members should be required to personally approve in members herb questions submitted by their staff.

The fundamental e tabling limit should remain at 20 per member per sitting day, but limit should be introduced for recesses. It is, in our view, an anomaly that this limit applies in sitting times, but not in recess. Members will understandably wish to scrutinise developing events during a recess, but as W PQs committee submitted during recess can't be answered until the House returns, there is often a better way of doing this, such as corresponding directly with Ministers. So our recommendation is that a limit be set of 20 W PQs per member for recess for one calendar week in length, and a further ten W PQs for each additional full calendar week, i.e.

you get more questions the longer the recess. We remind colleagues that these are very much maximums and not targets to be hit, and that when we increase quantity, we may see a decline in quality, and indeed that it's not necessarily looking busy by tabling more w PQs than your neighbouring MP is not an indication of how well you're working as an MP. And we listened to colleagues concerns about carding as well, and we found that the process generally works well, but the terminology could be modernised.

A card isn't a red card, a card isn't a block, it is merely a query that can generally be resolved very quickly by nipping into the table office. And so we recommended that carding should be renamed querying to reflect this. But also where a member accumulates a large number of unresolved queries and the old Monica Harding at any one time, it creates a blockage in the system, and it reduces the table officer's ability to advise other members. When members receive live at 20 live unaddressed queries at any one time, they should be required to address those before submitting further PQs.

And at the moment there is a cut off time for the same day E tabling of W PQs but it's different on different days of the week, and it falls outside of the normal working day. And the committee believe that a uniform time of 4 p.m. should be set on Mondays to Thursdays. That's more straightforward for members, but it also means that the focus of table office staff in the evenings, when there are far fewer staff available, is rightly on advising members on matters such as motions and amendments for the following day, rather than marshalling w PQs, it allows for questions to be considered over more time, supporting our goal of improving the consistency of colleagues experiences.

Given that Friday sitting hours, we recommend that we remain the 230 cut off on Fridays, and we know that having an exceptional route to an urgent answer is very useful to colleagues, but we found that named day was a very confusing term for some, and we thought that in terms of modernisation, we could replace that with priority questions, which better reflect the core purpose of a named day question. Priority questions should be a more simple term for colleagues to understand, but we recommend that the deadline for answer for priority questions should be set automatically at three working days after tabling, which is the earliest that you can get an answer for a name day.

Question. The limits for priority questions should remain unchanged at five per member per sitting day, and colleagues should consider using an ordinary question to get a detailed response and use the priority questions. Where speed is more of the essence. Turning to government responses, we heard a range of concerns with government responses to PQs from colleagues across the House, and the government should address these, particularly ensuring that questions are grouped sparingly but always individually addressed within a combined response.

We recommend that references to information published elsewhere should be used sparingly, with relevant extracts and not just hyperlinks, and that the government communicate with members and the table office, where there is a block of questions on a particular topic. There should also be more transparency and accountability about the government's performance in answering Dudley PQs. And to that end, we have recommended a public facing dashboard be introduced on the parliamentary website to be updated monthly, showing the performance of each department in answering w PQs on time.

That will empower members, the public and in the press to pursue inadequate performance, and we hope that it will also help the government to drive forward improvements. We recommend that members consider how we use w PQs. We are best placed to decide as individual elected representatives when we need to ask a particular question, but we should also consider the cost to the public purse. There are many alternatives, including other parliamentary proceedings, ministerial correspondence and the excellent services provided by the House of Commons Library.

And sometimes we might actually get a better outcome from these. Lastly, an AI was an emerging theme in our inquiry and we appreciate concerns raised by members. We are a forward thinking committee and we do see the benefit to it in improving the processes, but we are more cautious about its use for content. The most important thing is that MPs check and remain responsible for their questions at the minister's check, and remain responsible for their answers. Ultimately, as we set out in the report, given the importance of PQs to members across the House, we recognise the importance of bringing the House with us and for that reason, we have recommended that the government bring forward a motion to endorse this report as a whole, to enable the House to endorse its findings, recommendations and statements of principle and to allow the House administration, the government and all of us to get on with implementing it.

We hope that colleagues will support this motion when it comes before the House, and we have overhauled the W PQ system in a very much modernising direction, but we haven't been able to take up every suggestion that was made to us. But we have sought to give colleagues a better experience of w PQs and to make them a more valuable tool, including for important function of scrutinising government. The committee will review our findings and their implementation as we continue our regular work and monitoring departmental performance in answering w PQs.

And on that basis, Madam Deputy Speaker, I commend this report to the House.

19:50

Select Committee Statement: Select Committee Statement on the Second Report of the International Development Committee, UK International Climate Finance: Sustaining Commitments and Impact Amid a Shrinking Aid Budget, HC 206

I think the hon. Lady has got >> I think the hon. Lady has got off very lightly. If nobody wishes to ask her a question on that. So we now come to the second Select Committee statement on behalf of the International Development Committee. Sarah Champion will Committee. Sarah Champion will speak for up to ten minutes, during which there will be no interventions. And at the conclusion of her statement, members may ask questions on the subject of the statement I call

19:51

Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)

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Sarah Champion. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, I appreciate it. Climate change is not a distant threat. It's already reshaping lives and livelihoods around the lives and livelihoods around the world. The earth is warming and with it, rainfall patterns are becoming increasingly unpredictable, becoming increasingly unpredictable, sea levels are rising and extreme weather events are now more weather events are now more frequent and more severe. The impacts of climate change are being felt more than ever, both at home in the UK and even more acutely in the world's poorest and most climate vulnerable countries.

Climate change is often discussed in terms of emission targets, financial commitments and international agreements. But behind these debates, there is a humanitarian crisis unfolding, a crisis of homes destroyed, crops failing, livelihoods lost and communities struggling to rebuild in the wake of disasters they did little to cause. We witnessed such a reality, most recently in Nepal. In a matter of hours, devastating floods washed away his entire cities, leaving thousands of people dead or missing, forcing many more to face an uncertain future.

In a country where a quarter of the population already lives in poverty. But Nepal is not an isolated case, and with the prospect of a super El Nino, if countries are unable to mitigate and adapt to climate change, such disasters are set to become the norm. It is against this backdrop that the International Development Select Committee has published its report examining the UK's international climate finance commitments. Our inquiry is focussed on three overarching themes. First, the government's successive reductions to Oda have made it difficult to deliver on its climate finance commitments to lower and middle income countries in a transparent, meaningful and credible way.

Frustratingly, rather than striving to deliver genuine climate and nature outcomes, the government has been cutting corners to maintain headline spending commitments. This is impacting on our international credibility. Our report highlights that the government has also substantially reduced the Oda proportion of the UK's climate finance commitment for the next three years. This comes at a time when climate finance needs are growing and when sustained international leadership is more important than ever. To that end, I welcome the new Foreign Secretary, who I would argue is uniquely qualified to meet this challenge.

But let me be clear it is an enormous challenge. Recent policy shifts in the US, alongside signalling from major multilateral institutions that they may scale back or abandon climate finance targets, have created an increasingly uncertain landscape for climate action. In that context, the case for strong and consistent UK leadership has never been clearer. Second, the UK climate finance is not simply about how much money is spent, it's about who can access it, who benefits from it, and who has a voice in how it is used.

In a period of constrained public finances. The quality, accessibility and effectiveness of the UK's climate finance is vital. Throughout our inquiry, we repeatedly heard that climate finance is most effective when local organisations, communities and subnational governments can access high quality funding directly and play a meaningful role in designing and delivering climate solutions themselves. We also heard compelling evidence about the importance of inclusion. Women and girls, for example, disproportionately bear the brunt of climate impacts, yet receive less than 1% of climate finance.

Globally. However, women and girls are often agents of change within their communities, capable of driving long lasting climate outcomes. It's clear that too often, those most affected by climate challenges face the greatest barriers to accessing the UK's climate finance. That is why the committee's report argues that the UK's climate finance. Regardless of whether it's delivered through its own programmes, multilateral institutions or partners must be more accessible, inclusive and responsive to the needs and priorities of the most climate vulnerable countries.

Third, we consider the government's evolving approach to mobilising private finance for climate adaptation and mitigation. We recognise that in a resource constrained environment, the government is increasingly seeking to mobilise private capital to help it meet its climate finance obligations. We acknowledge that the pathway to addressing climate change is one that must include the private sector. However, our government has a critical role in creating an enabling environment that allows finance to flow where it is needed most. That means using the UK's development finance institutions, guarantees, partnerships and diplomatic influence strategically to reduce risk, strengthen local capacity, support investable projects and direct investments towards climate and nature outcomes.

But the shift from donor to investor must not come at the expense of poverty reduction. Public climate finance has a unique role to play in supporting the poorest and the most climate vulnerable countries, particularly where private finance private finance investment is least likely to go. The government must therefore ensure that its efforts to mobilise private finance complement rather than replace grant based solutions. For that to support those communities that need it most. But chamber, let me be blunt climate change threatens to reverse decades of hard won progress towards sustainable Development goals.

It not only risks perpetuating, perpetuating a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and humanitarian need in the most climate vulnerable countries, but will have downstream implications for the UK's own prosperity and security. The question now facing the government is not simply how much climate finance can be provided. The real test is whether the UK can demonstrate that every pound spent delivers genuine climate and nature outcomes. That means being more transparent, focusing on evidence targeting its limited Oda climate finance where it's needed the most and ensuring it strengthens rather than undermines broader development objectives.

The committee's report should serve as a reminder that climate finance should not be treated as an optional extra to Oda, that it should not be reprioritized or repurposed in the face of competing priorities, but rather it should be treated as an essential part of how the UK meets its global responsibilities under the Paris Agreement, and meaningfully contributes to tackling the contributes to tackling the

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defining challenge of our times. Monica Harding you, Madam Deputy

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Monica Harding you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon. Lady and Chair of Select Committee give that very powerful speech. Yesterday, she powerful speech. Yesterday, she pointed out Nepal was hit by another flood after 1400 people another flood after 1400 people were killed by those earlier in the year, and these extreme weather events are having a huge impact on biodiversity, and I would urge every member to read the government's National Security Assessment of Global biodiversity loss and ecosystem collapse, and the threat to our own national

19:58

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

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security here, and those challenges can only be met if public money is available. And that means a return available. And that means a return to Oda at 0.7%. So will the Minister lay out how that will be? Minister lay out how that will be? How would the chair of the Select Committee lay out? And does she think that's important? And how does public funding marry with the private investment that she talks

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of? I thank my hon. Friend and committee member. And she well knows that when we go and visit some of these places, farmers haven't been able to plant crops for years. And these are also in areas where when we go into our own supermarkets, we're expecting the food to come from. So unless we recognise this as an international catastrophe that we're all interconnected with, we will never get to the resolution that we need.

19:59

Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)

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Sam Rushworth thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker And it's true, we know that those bearing the brunt know that those bearing the brunt of climate disasters are those the least responsible for causing them. And the reality is that the cuts that are being implemented, not just by this government, but all governments, risk global food security, increased poverty, increased conflict and refugee and migration flows. I've previously called for the government to properly assess the impact of this and to publish it, so that we, as British taxpayers, can understand what those impacts are going to be.

Would she join me in that call?

20:00

Dr Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend and committee member, and he has consistently made this argument. The government needs to give us the transparency so that we can see what works, what doesn't work, and then replicate that on a global scale. Without that clear information presented to this House, it becomes impossible to see the impact that we're having.

20:00

Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)

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Jim Shannon thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. First of all, can I thank the chair of the committee thank the chair of the committee for her contribution today and for all the committee for what they've done. I don't care what anybody says. None of us can ignore the fact that they that the ice caps are melting, that they reinforce have been decimated. That bird life and animal life across the world has been reduced quite dramatically. And fires, floods and pestilence. The use of political term seems to be an everyday occurrence.

But the hon. Lady mentioned in particular, and I wish to focus on ask her a question. And that is for women and girls. I think it's really important that they have the chance to thrive. They have the chance to be educated, they have the chance be educated, they have the chance to have the health that they should have, and then also they have the opportunity to find a job. What opportunity to find a job. What more can this government and our government do to ensure that women government do to ensure that women and girls across the world have a chance to thrive?

20:01

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, and it's one I've heard him for decades make to try and support women and girls to flourish wherever they find themselves. And what I would say is that the most straightforward thing that the government could do right now is publish the data about who the money goes to and how it impacts positively on their lives. It's something the committee has been calling for for as long as I've chaired it, and I think it's something the government really needs to act on.

20:02

Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)

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Can I thank both Select Committee chairs for their Committee chairs for their statements this evening? That brings us to the backbench business

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debate on Baby Loss Awareness Week. Andy MacNae Tamworth. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's a privilege to open this debate again during Baby Loss Awareness Week, and I want to start by recognising the bereaved parents participating in a debate today, whether by watching at home, having shared your story with your MP or even by speaking in this chamber today, to lose your child is one of the most painful things a parent can experience. I know today will bring back difficult and deeply upsetting memories for many, but we

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General debate: General debate on Baby Loss Awareness Week

are here today in our children's memory. Since our debate last October, the All-Party parliamentary Group on Baby Loss

20:02

Andy MacNae MP (Rossendale and Darwen, Labour)

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20:24

Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Hunt MP (Godalming and Ash, Conservative)

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20:36

Michelle Welsh MP (Sherwood Forest, Labour)

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watched last year's debate again, and what saddened me was how much of what we raised then remained of what we raised then remained painfully familiar. Today, families are still fighting for answers, women still describing concerns women still describing concerns that were dismissed and staff still frightened to speak up. Last year, frightened to speak up. Last year, I said let grief be the engine for I said let grief be the engine for change. Today I want to go further. Families have carried the grief.

It is time the system carried the responsibility. There has been an important change over the past year. Baby loss, maternity and neonatal care are being discussed openly and treated as priorities of the government. The work of Donna Ockenden, Baroness Amos and Lady Justice Thirlwall has brought devastating failings into sharp focus. I thank them, their teams and above all the families who courage have made that work possible. For the last six and a half years, I thought fought for change, listening to over 1000 families and organisations, my own experience of miscarriages and birth leaving me with both physical and mental scars.

I'm so proud to serve as the government's National maternity and neonatal adviser and contribute to the National Task Force. The task force brings together families, clinicians and others with the experience and expertise to shape reform. Bringing those voices together in this way is a significant step forward, and I welcome the determination to work together. I also wish to thank the civil servants working behind the scenes, often to demanding deadlines, to turn that determination into action. But the measure of our success will be what changes for women arriving at hospital frightened the midwife, trying to keep her safe, and the families who sadly leave without their baby.

Our goal must be clear, safe, care, informed choice and compassionate births with support that continues when things go wrong. That must be the standard every family can expect. Madam Deputy Speaker. That includes families experiencing early pregnancy loss. We must never confuse an early loss with a small loss. A woman may have known she was pregnant for only a short time. She may have already imagined a name, a face, a future she may be grieving privately before she's told anyone she is pregnant.

Whatever her circumstances, she deserves compassion and we must think about where that care takes place. A woman who has just been told her pregnancy ended should not have to sit beside someone celebrating a reassuring scan. A woman losing her baby should not be placed on a ward where she must listen to other babies crying and families celebrating their arrival. We should not ask people to enjoy avoidable distress because the service has failed to consider their needs. We need appropriate private spaces, timely assessment and scans, sensitive explanations and clear information about what happens next.

And women need to understand their treatment choices. They need pain relief, follow up and someone to contact when they are frightened or unsure. Partners need support to, and a woman should never be left feeling that. Because miscarriage happens relatively often, her own loss somehow matters less. The care we provide cannot remove that grief, but it can make the difference between being supported through it and being traumatised further. And that brings me to something very simple time to care.

Now in Nottinghamshire, when someone is struggling, we often say, come on, let's have a cuppa. We put the kettle on, we make a brew. But what we really mean is stop for a moment, take a breath, sit down. I'm here and I'm listening. In maternity care, time matters. Time to hear a woman say something feels wrong. Time to explain a scan result. Time to answer a father's question. Time to sit with parents. After devastating news, a hurried conversation can leave someone frightened and confused.

A compassionate conversation can help

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them understand, feel heard and Know what support is available. We cannot ask staff to provide that care while giving them neither the time nor the staffing to do it. time nor the staffing to do it. Time to care must be built into the service. That means a properly funded, ring fenced perinatal workforce plan. Enough midwives, workforce plan. Enough midwives, neonatal staff, sonographers and bereavement specialists with the training and support they need. It means continuity whenever possible, so that when women are supported by professionals who understand their history, their fears and their circumstances, compassion must be supported by the way we organise and resource care and listening must also lead to the right action.

We need timely access to the right scans, skilled interpretation of the results and prompt referral. When concerns are identified. Safe informed choice depends on having that information and the opportunity to discuss it. We must also confront the inequalities in whose concerns are heard. Black, Asian and ethnic minority mothers continue to face an unacceptable disparity in maternal outcomes. Racism, assumptions about pain and failures to listen must be addressed directly. We need services that take women serious symptoms seriously, provide appropriate interpretation and examine outcomes honestly.

A national improvement in safety cannot be judged a success. While some women remain much less safe than others, where you live, the colour of your skin or your ability to make your self harm must heard, must never determine whether you receive compassionate, safe care. Madam Deputy Speaker, it would be an omission on my part if I did not speak about responsibility and accountability, because I know how deeply this hurts. In Nottinghamshire, women were left traumatised. Families described fathers, fathers sleeping on windowsills.

Only hours after their precious baby had died, because there wasn't even a chair available. And some of those who held senior responsibility during those years did not engage with the Donna Ockenden's review. For families who have revisited the worst moments of their lives to help establish the truth, the refusal hurts. It runs deep. It stings. Families have answered the difficult questions. They have shared intimate details. They have found the strength to speak when speaking has cost them so much.

And they deserve answers from those who held responsibility. For far too long, we've had a system in which excellent midwives are frightened to speak up. Families must fight for answers, and some explanations that they have been given have been clearly untrue. Women have been made to feel that what happened was their fault. We have to address that. A culture that supports honest learning must protect staff who raise concern and distinguish between human error and reckless or dishonest conduct.

It must also ensure that failures of leadership have consequences. Protecting staff who speak the truth and holding people accountable for concealing it are both essential to safer care. And that is why the maternity and neonatal commissioner must have teeth. The commissioner must have their independence, authority and resources to listen to families and staff, identify patterns, obtain information and challenge failures. There must be clear routes to require response and escalate concerns when organisations fail to act.

Families should not have to wait for another major inquiry before someone in authority listens. But national oversight must be matched by accountability in every trust. Every trust board should be able to say who is responsible for maternity safety, what concerns have been raised, what action is being taken and how progress will be demonstrated. Improvement plans should have named owners deadlines and evidence that care has changed and improved. We also need consistent national data that helps us identify warning signs early, and accountability must reach the ward, the boardroom and the organisations overseeing them.

We therefore must review our regulatory bodies and how they are fulfilling their purpose. The GMC, the NMC and the CQC have different responsibilities, but all have a role in protecting patients. We need to examine how they respond to concerns, share information and act when warning signs emerge. We have these three regulators, yet families still need large scale investigations to establish what happened and secure change. The question is simple how could serious concerns at Nottingham University Hospital Trust persist for over 20 years, while bereaved families had to stand up, organise and fight before meaningful change began? That is a broken system, a system that leaves grieving parents to expose his failures is unfit for purpose.

And when it forces those parents to fight for the truth while carrying the loss of their baby, it is cruel and we should call that cruelty out. We should reject it and we should change it. Bereaved parents should never have to become the safety net for a system that failed their children. Now I know there are exceptional midwives and obstetricians working every day across this country. They listen, they care, they save lives. And many have themselves fought to raise concerns. They deserve a system too that supports them, protects them when they speak up and acts on what they say.

It is for those staff, for the future of our services and above all, for babies, mothers and families that we must make change happen. And I welcome the Health Bill's proposal to extend the time limit for bringing relevant prosecutions from three years to five. But we must go further. Families facing bereavement may spend months simply trying to survive, understanding a complex regulatory system should not fall entirely on them. They need clear information about where to raise concerns, what each

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organisation can do and how to access support. I thank my hon. Friend for

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for her amazing work on this issue over many years, on this issue over many years, campaigning for families who've been harmed in her area. Families been harmed in her area. Families often face long and lonely legal battles after the grieving and battles after the grieving and damage that's been done during the child's care. Clinicians and organisations can often become defensive and risk averse, particularly in an environment. Does she agree with me that as part of these changes that she's calling for, we also need to look at NHS resolution, the clinical negligence scheme and stop making it a fight

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for parents to get answers to the questions that they have. This is a very. Powerful debate, but it is limited to three hours and I won't be able to get all the members in if speeches are long, but I appreciate how sensitive it but I appreciate how sensitive it is. Michelle Welsh thank you.

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is. Michelle Welsh thank you. I do agree bereavement care also needs proper scrutiny. A poster on a wall cannot demonstrate that a a wall cannot demonstrate that a family has received passionate care. Families need appropriate spaces, trained staff, sensitive communication and support after they leave hospital, where families wish equipment such as cuddle cots can allow precious times with their baby. Parents should be supported to make their own choices about holding their baby, creating memories and saying goodbye. Nobody should be rushed, no nobody should be made to feel there is a correct way to grieve.

The quality of that care should never depend on which hospital door a family walks through. I also want to raise the no breath required campaign. In England and Wales, coroners generally cannot investigate a stillbirth. Their jurisdiction depends on whether a baby was born showing signs of life. That distinction can leave families in very similar circumstances, with different routes to independent scrutiny. The need for answers does not disappear because a baby was stillborn. I believe we should give coroners the power to investigate stillbirths with appropriate safeguards, expertise and resources.

We have seen the harm caused when inadequate reviews fail to identify what went wrong or prevent it happening again. An extension of coroners powers must sit with within wider reform. It needs sufficient capacity. Specialist understanding and compassionate support for families. We must also recognise that some losses occur despite good care. Every family deserves an honest explanation, support and the opportunity to ask questions, and that support must continue beyond discharge. Grief does not end when a hospital episode closes.

It follows people home into work, into relationships, and sometimes into subsequent pregnancy. Families need access to bereavement and mental health support for as long as they need it. They should not have to prove that they are struggling badly enough to deserve help. Yeah, Madam Deputy Speaker, bereaved and harm families have already given us so much. Their testimony has exposed failures, their persistence has driven views. Their determination has brought us to this point. They should never have needed to become campaigners to make the system listen.

As the government and the taskforce move forward, their voices must remain central and our promises must be tested against their experience. We need time to care. Power to act and responsibility to answer. Last year I said, let grieve be the engine of change. This year we must show families what that change is. Where that change is happening. Families have carried the grief. It is time the system carried the responsibility. Baby Windsor. Baby Harriet. Baby Sebastian. Baby Cooper. Baby.

Teddy. Baby. Quinn. Baby. Aubrey. Baby. Grace. Baby. Poppy. Baby. Dexter. Baby Luna and baby Luna. Lady bird. We must remember every baby, support every family, and do everything in our power to prevent avoidable loss. Thank you.

20:51

Alison Bennett MP (Mid Sussex, Liberal Democrat)

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Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We now are on speaking limit of seven minutes. Alison Bennett. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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I'd like to thank the. Hon. Members for Rossendale and Darwen and Sherwood Forest and the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash, for their advocacy for better maternity care and for their opening speeches this evening. I want to begin by talking about an extraordinary woman. My constituent, Jane Plumb from Haywards Heath and her son Oliver, and the work that they've done, along with their colleagues running a charity called Group B Strep Support. They visited Parliament in the summer, and some hon.

Members came along to learn more about their campaign, calling for all expectant mothers to be offered GBS specific tests late in pregnancy as part of their antenatal care. If that test was offered, that would mean that more babies could be protected from a life threatening infection. I spent some time this afternoon looking at the Group B strep support website, and I found the history of the charity. I knew that Jane set up the charity after her baby Theo died from the infection, and I know that she had been working on it for decades since then.

The first time I saw a photograph of her in Parliament was outside this building with David Cameron, and then a few years later, she met my predecessor, Sir Nicholas Soames, and Theresa May, again campaigning. It gives you a sense of the decades that she's put in to trying to fight for babies in future, not to have the same outcome that baby Theo had. The second set of constituents I want to reflect on are the families in Mid Sussex who are part of the truth for Our Babies campaign.

Since last year's debate, Mark Baby Loss Awareness Week progress has been made and families in Sussex who lost their babies, whose babies were harmed, or for the mums who were harmed themselves. Last October, in this debate, I called for the then Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the right hon. Member for Ilford North, to listen to the calls from those families and the true for babies campaign. Their ask was quite clear. They wanted there to be an independent review into maternity services at the University Hospitals Sussex NHS Foundation Trust and, critically, they wanted Donna Ockenden to lead that review.

It was not until April, six months later that their requests were met. In the intervening months, the meetings that those families convened with the right hon. Member for Ilford North were raw, emotional and stark. They are meetings I will not forget. I wish that the bereaved parents from true for our babies had not been put in the position where they felt that they had no choice but to lay out their babies stories again and again in order to be heard.

As so many hon. Members can attest, the distress, pain and exhaustion felt by parents and families families tragically stretches on beyond the loss of the baby. It is right and proper that these families receive reviews to better understand what went wrong and to stop things going wrong in the future. I am, of course, glad the Sussex Maternity Review is now underway, but when I receive extremely concerning correspondence from my constituents, such as that which I will briefly quote below, I have serious doubts about the way in which reviews are being conducted.

My constituent tells me, and I quote, that there is currently no funding available to cover families travel expenses to review meetings, and that no remuneration arrangements are in place for our time, expertise and emotional labour. My constituent rightly notes that this is a particularly concerning factor, given the review's commitment to being inclusive and non-discriminatory. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is despite the fact that neither our guidance is clear about the importance of properly resourcing public involvement. It recommends payment for public contributors time, skills and expertise alongside reimbursement of reasonable expenses such as travel.

The guidance recognises that financial barriers can prevent people from participating, and that appropriate payment and expenses are important to ensuring that involvement is accessible and inclusive. If families who cannot afford the cost of travel or to take time away from work or caring responsibilities, and if they repeatedly revisit traumatic experiences without appropriate recognition and support. The other evidence gathered will inevitably be incomplete and potentially fuel the inequalities already in place. I hope the Department of Health and Social Care officials and the Secretary of State will reflect on this.

I'd be very happy to engage with them further as a matter of urgency, and I'd also like to ask the Secretary of State whether she will meet Group B strep calls for screening to be put in place for all expectant women. Thank you.

20:57

Deirdre Costigan MP (Ealing Southall, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Every single baby loss. >> Is a tragedy. Of almost welcome.

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The Amos. Report commissioned by this government, which I believe will prove to be a watershed moment for prove to be a watershed moment for those families. The report highlights that black, Asian and highlights that black, Asian and economically deprived families face significantly higher risks of death and complications in maternity and neonatal care. Babies of Black and Asian ethnicity face higher rates Asian ethnicity face higher rates of dying shortly after birth, compared to white babies, and black mothers face up to 40% higher risk of miscarriage than white mothers.

For many of my constituents in Ealing Southall, which was one of the most ethnically diverse in the country, this brings an added level of risk when using maternity services. I recently met with a family from Southall who lost their newborn shortly after birth. Mum and dad did not have good English, so their 13 year old daughter had to translate for her parents and explain to them that they were being asked to agree to turn their new baby's life support machine off.

This 13 year old girl then ended up standing in front of a judge, arguing on behalf of her family. She showed me that heartbreaking letter the judge sent her, explaining the decision to end life support, a decision which she and her parents still cannot accept or even understand. We rightly focus on the parents when a child dies, but brothers and sisters are too often overlooked when it comes to support. After a family bereavement. My 13 year old constituent found that some of the medical professionals struggled to communicate with her about what had happened to her newborn baby sister.

She told me she felt there wasn't enough help available for her, both as a child experiencing the loss of a sibling and as a child, carrying all of the burden of communicating with officialdom on behalf of her family. No 13 year old child should have to go through what my constituent has. So I welcome the government's commitment to more compassionate and individualised care for every bereaved family. But I hope the Secretary of State will work to ensure that in the design of this, there are measures in place to support families where English is a second or even third language, including support for siblings who act as the family translator.

Madam Deputy Speaker, every woman should feel safe and looked after in the NHS, but it is important that all women are listened to, including Black and Asian women. I welcome the new Task and Finish Group on miscarriage and baby loss care, but I urge it to look closely at how black and Asian women also often face. Indeed, double jeopardy when accessing maternity and neonatal services and to find ways of removing this inequality once and for all.

20:07

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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21:11

Cat Smith MP (Lancaster and Wyre, Labour)

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here, I think often it can be quite difficult to talk about issues where you feel you've got skin in the game, and that's certainly the the game, and that's certainly the case to the extent whereby my local hospital, the Royal Lancaster hospital, the Royal Lancaster Infirmary, invited me to the opening of the new bereavement suites in the maternity unit earlier this year. And I actually I earlier this year. And I actually I found a reason not to go. And it wasn't that I wasn't glad that that room was there, but it was because room was there, but it was because I'd never wanted to see the inside of it.

Unfortunately, in June this year, I did get to see the inside of it, but not as a MP there with the ribbon being cut. It was as a grieving parent. And the thing about miscarriages is that when you leave hospital, you don't have anything apart from maybe some leaflets from the Miscarriage Association. And the one thing I want to talk about today, and I'm going to keep this quite tight, is around baby loss certificates, because that's one thing you can have and you can hold when you've got nothing else of your babies.

But there are some some real issues with baby loss certificates I want to set out. And I believe that we can make policy changes that could make this better for parents. And because the eligibility criteria for the certificates in England is far stricter than the eligibility criteria in Scotland and Northern Ireland. So in England you are required to have experienced the loss in England and be living in England when you apply, whereas in Scotland and Northern Ireland you can apply if you live there or live there at the time of the loss.

And this variation does create an inconsistency in what's available to parents across the UK. There is another issue with cross border access to certificates because since the English scheme was launched, I've been made aware by Sands of families where bereaved parents who live in Wales and. But experienced their loss in an English hospital. I find that they're not eligible for the certificates now. The charities concern is that once the Welsh Certificate Scheme finally launches, if the verification criteria is the same as the English criteria, that would require the parents to both live in Wales and have experienced the loss in Wales, those parents would fall between the cracks and never be eligible for a baby loss certificate under either scheme.

But there's also an inconsistency where parents don't live in the same part of the UK, which was an issue raised in the Scottish Parliament's debate on baby loss last week and the issue was raised by my partner David Linden MSP, because the issue stems from the verification process, which uses NHS numbers and postcodes to confirm eligibility. But it results in a problem whereby the baby certificates that I have just have my name on as the mother and I left blank where the father's name should be.

Not because. Not because he doesn't want to be on that certificate, but because the system says no, because his postcode is wrong. So you can't have both parents names on a baby loss certificate when you live in different parts of the United Kingdom. And David did raise this last week in the Scottish Parliament, and the Scottish Health Minister, Maree Todd, said she would take it forward to the department. And my only ask today is that the Secretary of State receives that warmly and perhaps even reaches out to Ministers in all the nations of the United Kingdom to ensure that whilst it's not the typical way a family is is living across different nations in the United Kingdom, and that where families are that they are eligible for baby loss certificates, because when you're walking out of a hospital and the only thing you wanted was your baby, but all you've got is loss, having that certificate is something tangible to hold on to and does offer a huge amount of comfort.

And I think this is a computer says no administrative error. That would offer a lot of comfort to many families. Thank you. Peter Sorcha Eastwood.

21:15

Sorcha Eastwood MP (Lagan Valley, Alliance)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. realise across this House that these are the incredible moments where people come together to share their testimony. And I really want their testimony. And I really want to thank the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen for bringing the debate today, and for the the debate today, and for the Member for London Astor. And why're you absolutely broke my heart, but the strength you have shared is incredible, and I know so many people watching this will be absolutely moved and just feel the power and the strength of your testimony there.

Obviously I'm from Northern Ireland. We introduced the baby loss certificates. It's a devolved matter for us, but I know so many of my constituents were really, really just seen by that. And I would encourage the Health Minister for England to to do what we've done in Northern Ireland, because it really has made such a difference. I want to just talk briefly about a number of charities in my constituency of Lagan Valley, Zac's Wish and Little Forget me Nots Trust in Northern Ireland. We are one of those parts of the world where some things we do really well, other things we don't do very well.

And it's actually the Member for Rutland and Stamford talking about the issue of forced adoption and mother and baby homes. And across the island of Ireland, we have a long and shameful heritage of a number of mass graves, and that has really impacted women and families during throughout the centuries, because they haven't actually been able to ever get closure. Now, the Northern Ireland Assembly at the minute is doing a big public health piece of work on actually trying to trace some of those babies to their mothers, or maybe their brother or sister or another family member.

And I want to pay tribute to my colleague in the Northern Ireland Assembly, Nina McAllister, MLA for North Belfast, who has been incredible in trying to bring churches to day with their shame for not allowing families to have a burial or even just an acknowledgement of their loved one. Another huge issue that I have felt that is yet to be named in this debate is the issue of maternal mental health. And whenever you experience baby loss, no one can name that for you and tell you how to feel and what to do.

But I do know that for women who have already experienced that incredible and crushing hollow in the centre of their stomach, that sometimes the one thing that they need is somebody to be there. And I think other members have touched on the fact tonight that there needs to be that continuity of care throughout a pregnancy, and that includes whenever that journey comes to an end and the person doesn't have a baby in their arms. And I want to pay tribute to one of my constituents, Lynette Glenn from Lagan Valley and the Mars Project in the Atlas Women's Centre.

I don't want to betray any confidences, but I do know that one of the women involved in another project with Women's Aid lost her daughter after she gave birth. And in Northern Ireland, shamefully, we still do not have a proper programme for women who are experiencing postnatal and issues around during the pregnancy as well, and issues around postnatal depression and anxiety. And that is deeply, deeply troubling. I can't even begin to imagine how much that compounds the loss of a child.

Whenever you were already potentially in deep distress. Another issue that we have really come across in Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom is the lack of the paediatric pathology services. We now have a situation where babies are being taken from Northern Ireland to other parts of the UK, and earlier this year, having met actually with some of the pathology department in the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast, I can say that that team are absolutely second to none, but that doesn't mean that that's going to hurt mums and dads and other people who have lost their baby whenever their baby is taken away from them.

That's really difficult, but we have a staff shortage across that workforce of pathologists, and that's really incredibly difficult. And I think we still need to give thought to how we're actually going to help families who are undergoing that loss as we really think our way through this. Earlier this year, we experienced the passage of the Hillsborough law, and so many people have already made reference to the Ockenden report. And I think that's really key in terms of the culture sometimes of secrecy and cover up.

And I think that is absolutely key whenever we're discussing baby loss. I'm so heartened by the number of MPs that are already doing incredible work in this space, and I think we need to do so much more there. Northern Ireland currently has the highest infant mortality rate in the UK, and that is something that I'm sure many people will find is troubling, as I do. I also want to pay tribute to a charity called Mummy Star, founded by a lovely man called Pete, who actually lost his wife whenever she had cancer and she was pregnant.

There are so many other women that go through cancer when pregnant, and sometimes they are left with no other option than to terminate their pregnancy. A much loved pregnancy, a much wanted pregnancy and we need to do so much more to support those women. There are incredible clinicians who are doing work already in this space to support those women and their babies, but I think there is so much more to be done. Lastly, I just want to, if you spare me an indulgence, talk about IVF.

Whenever you go through IVF, sometimes you are left with, as you say, nothing in your arms. And I know for many women in Northern Ireland at the minute, we only have one cycle of IVF. And for those women who do not have many eggs during the egg collection, you only have one shot of the fresh egg transfer. If that isn't successful, you walk away with nothing. Your one shot has been done. I would just really call on members across this House to help our campaign to ensure that Northern Ireland gets the three fully funded cycles of IVF or Icsi, because those women experience that loss and they potentially never gain that baby in their arms.

So I would just ask members to be mindful and to help me in that cause for women in Northern Ireland. And lastly, just thank you to everyone who shared their experiences tonight. You're

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Speaker. I'm speaking. Limits has been dropped to six minutes before a call Luke Charters. Because I don't call Luke Charters. Because I don't want to interrupt anyone speaking speeches. You and yours is not good form. You're speaking through the

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chair. Remember that. Thank you. Luke Charters thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm very grateful for the Speaker. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. And I'm reminded of the words of Jo Cox more in common that words of Jo Cox more in common that shared sharing experiences tonight. I hope the public and my constituents will see that there is

21:21

Mr Luke Charters MP (York Outer, Labour)

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more in common between us in this House. We all recognise that baby loss brings an unimaginable grief. loss brings an unimaginable grief. No family should have to face that loss in isolation. And this is the loss in isolation. And this is the 24th Baby Loss Awareness Week, and I pay tribute to Tommy's Sands and the many charities, NHS staff and volunteers in York who are supporting families through their darkest moments. Through their compassion, they help ensure that compassion, they help ensure that bereaved families know they're never alone.

But Madam Deputy Speaker, for too many families, baby loss could have been preventable. Too often, families have said they were not listened to when they raised concerns. Although my own family's experience is different from that of families who experienced a loss, this debate is personal. And when my wife and I welcomed our first child, we experienced a traumatic birth fortunate, blessed and lucky to have it, but traumatic nonetheless. It left a profound mark on our family, and particularly on my own mental health witnessing it all.

And actually, I want to pay tribute to this guy, journalist Sarah Jane Mee, who who with her empathy, gave me the confidence to share my story. The findings of Baroness Amos independent review into maternity and neonatal services are important, but in the short time I have, I would say insufficient in their. For Non-birthing partners and I'm warmly welcome. The new Health Secretary to her place and I am very appreciative of her predecessors who met with me and showed me empathy in sharing my experiences, and I know many other members feel the same.

And in her shared view, I think that there is a national crisis around the standards of maternity care in this country. And I wanted to touch on the Member for Sherwood Forest. One of the particular remarks just given time was around GMC and the professionals and holding people to account, because I think being one of those families that, frankly, too few professionals just seem to have been struck off, so few seem to have been held to account. And I think this has echoed through some of the work in the Ockenden review and the other investigations at Nottingham, and I'm now working with her as a family.

In her review of maternity services at lth t Leeds Trusts, where we were one of the families involved. And Donna, I will just say on record, she's been respectful and kind and empathetic, and I want to thank her for that. But at the heart of every recommendation must be one simple principle that families must be listened to and no non-birthing partner should feel helpless as their warnings go unheard, and no bereaved family should be left wondering whether a different response could have changed the outcome for their baby.

But I want to pay tribute to Hayley Patrick Copeland and her two daughters that she lost Alya and Alya. She is a powerhouse of a northern mum and through her knit and natter groups, which I visited in my constituency, they've been knitting hats and gowns for stillborn children and she texted me to say that awareness is so important so that people feel less alone, that they can more openly share their wonderful baby stories. And Hayley's channelled her grief into helping others, creating ribbons displays across York that offer remembrance, comfort and solidarity to families affected by baby loss.

I pay tribute to Hayley and to the local organisation supporting her. Thank you to Huntingdon Working Men's Club. Thank you to the Joseph Rowntree Housing Trust. Hayley, you're amazing. You really are. I want to close with some candour, try and let other members in. But really, just to say that the test of every review, recommendation and action plan is whether families experiences actually improve, not only in the immediate aftermath of the loss, but in the months and years that follow.

And I was immensely grateful to the team at York District that were there for us during the second birth on Thursday evening. This week, the global wave of Life of Light will bring people together to remember those who have been lost too soon. But I must say that the overwhelming message I get from families in York is that sympathy is never enough. So I hope that tonight is a a clamouring call for action, that we owe them the action they deserve, and we owe it to the babies.

We remember this week to learn every possible lesson from their loss.

21:26

Ian Roome MP (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)

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And Ian Roome. >> And Ian Roome. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to thank the members from both sides of the House for bringing this debate forward this evening on Baby Loss Awareness Week. This comes at a very important This comes at a very important moment for many of my constituents in North Devon. Due to a serious staffing crisis, all births at North Devon District Hospital have now been suspended for more than eight weeks. That has forced more than 180 expectant mothers to travel over two hours or more to Exeter to give birth since the 11th of August.

Many fear that journey. The journey is not safe and have experienced weeks of stress and anxiety, picturing unexpected complications, the trauma of a difficult birth or the loss of a little one. This is a fear that cuts through the whole community, down every street, across every class, class and background. I know I am not the only member who receives private emails from constituents without heartfelt or even heartbreaking stories, shared only in complete confidence. There are estimated to be 120,000 miscarriages in the UK each year, although the NHS does not know the true figure, with some estimates for either.

Losing a child is something nobody should ever have to suffer, and many families are left grieving what might have been reading their accounts. You are struck by how much small acts of kindness matter. Our trust go about investigating a tragedy. Whether overworked NHS staff took time to listen to parents, whether or not public bodies use their child's name in North Devon, we're blessed with the hard work of a wonderful local charity called Families in Grief, who gave me a simple glimpse into our complex.

Bereavement support can be. The loss of a child is something that impacts not only parents, but siblings and extended family. For a long time. People experience grief very differently, and a death is something that can shatter whole families. Speaking as a father and now a grandfather, the National Health Service is a modern miracle to some families. According to the Office of National Statistics, the infant mortality rate has fallen by more than 90% since 1900. In fact, more than 35% in just the past 25 years.

And yet, in some ways, we seem to have gone backwards. According to the pregnancy baby loss charity Sands, the proportion of parents waiting six months or more for post-mortem results has trebled to more than 1 in 5. That is especially painful where it stops parents planning for another child bereavement support is still only offered to parents after experiencing experiencing a third miscarriage. I know that the Liberal Democrats have argued for bereavement care after every miscarriage, something also proposed by the national pregnancy charity Tommy's.

They advocate for basic counselling and advice after the first miscarriage, then blood tests and more advanced scans after each successive miscarriage. Those are important for bereavement, but also for the underlying health risks that need to be identified for the for a future pregnancy. In North Devon, our local hospital is desperately trying to fill and find the two consultant spaces for the rota so that births can resume locally. But hundreds of families in our community also deserve a full independent review into what has happened.

We need accountability so that it never happens again. No parent should have this major milestone in life ruined by inadequate access to services, poor quality care or insensitive treatment. In December, the government's neonatal and maternity task force is due to put together a new National Action plan to strengthen maternity units in the hospitals across the country. The desperate case of North Devon District Hospital and the peril of young parents in my constituency should be front and centre in their thinking.

I have met with many families who are struggling to even

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get to Exeter because of lack of transport, because of the rural constituency. Yes, I will give way. Grateful to the hon. Member.

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Grateful to the hon. Member. For taking an intervention and I'm aware of the problem in his hospital. I'd just like to say hospital. I'd just like to say something quite shocking. We're talking tonight of baby loss, but we must also consider those babies who are born but damaged by obstetric catastrophes. Just a obstetric catastrophes. Just a simple fact. The cost of the NHS obstetric service about one about £3 billion per year. We spend £1.3 billion per year on negligence compensation, with the total liability of 37 billion.

The average claim for a damaged baby is £11 million. So although we're talking about baby loss and the problems of the obstetric service, we must also consider those babies who are born but are damaged

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because of obstetric disasters. I thank the hon. Gentleman and his clinician experience in bringing that awareness to the House, and I. I totally agree with House, and I. I totally agree with him. So basically, to conclude, after writing to the Secretary of State four times since July and not State four times since July and not receiving one reply, I would welcome an urgent meeting with the Secretary of State to discuss the Secretary of State to discuss the issues around maternity and North Devon District Hospital I.

Now the closure is affecting my constituents in North Devon. Thank you.

21:32

Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)

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Laura Kyrke-Smith. >> Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I commend so many colleagues for their powerful contributions to this debate. I want to talk briefly this debate. I want to talk briefly about three things. The first is this point about awareness, which is such an essential first step. The second is about the significant uplift and support that we need to see for bereaved parents. And my third point is specifically about mental health support, which should always be there when people are trying for a baby or when they lose that baby during pregnancy or during or after birth.

I speak with a bit of relevant personal experience. I now have three beautiful children, but before I got pregnant with my eldest, I had three miscarriages. Three times. My husband and I went through that surge of hope and excitement and nerves that early planning for life with a baby, sharing the news with a few close friends and family, only for it to end in disappointment. I was really knocked by it each time really unsettled as there was no explanation for why it had happened.

Really frustrated by all the people who just said don't worry, you'll be fine because I didn't believe that I would be fine. I didn't understand what had happened, and I didn't know whether I'd be able to have a baby or not. But I was, I suppose, lucky because the NHS did get to the bottom of it, and I was then able to have my children. So more importantly, I am here today on behalf of all my constituents in Aylesbury and the villages, and an estimated half of whom will have been affected by some form of pregnancy or baby loss, either directly or through someone they know.

And I can bet that many of them won't have shared those experiences or won't have felt supported if they did. So my first point is about awareness, because until I looked into it, I had no idea that half of adults living in the UK are affected by baby loss. And before I had my own miscarriages, I had no idea that 1 in 5 pregnancies ends that way. I want to thank the organisations that are working nationally to change that, like Sands and Tommy's, and I want to thank the groups in my constituency who are doing the same, and I want to give a special shout out to Aylesbury yarn bombing, who have covered Postboxes across Aylesbury with these incredibly beautiful and moving postbox toppers this month with hand-stitched sleeping babies and candles and teddy bears and hearts and little notes, asking passers by just to take a moment to show support and remember those babies we've lost and the families who have been affected.

That's so important because it's on all of us to educate ourselves, to speak more openly about baby loss, and to reach out and rally around people who are struggling as a result of it. So that takes me to my second point, which is about improving that support. I'd like to make one specific point about miscarriage, because when I, when I had mine and it turned out to be quite a common and treatable issue, but it wasn't until the third miscarriage that I was eligible for the tests to discover this.

And if that miscarriage support had kicked in sooner, I could have avoided the trauma of multiple miscarriages. And so I really support this graded model of miscarriage care and developed by Tommy's, which would allow at least those limited tests to start sooner. And I would ask that the Secretary of State looks into that more broadly. We have to end this lottery of care that exists for baby loss. I do hear from people who receive compassionate support, that midwife or bereavement counsellor who makes all the difference.

But there's far too much of the opposite. I'll just quote from one lady from my constituency who got in touch before this debate and said, I'm a mother of a stillborn baby. I was full term, 41 weeks and six days overdue with my first born. She was born sleeping. I received very little support. Afterwards, I was given a leaflet and just told, don't worry, you're healthy, you'll have a baby soon. And that was that. And that's not good enough. And she is one of too many people being dismissed in this way.

So as we've heard, we need that national framework to set out what high quality support for baby loss should look like. We need better data behind it. We need clear ambitions and accountability for maternity safety more broadly. And as always, when it comes to maternity care, we need that sustained focus on reducing the pervasive inequalities in access and outcomes. We need that dedicated space in hospitals, too. I had another constituent tell me about going through surgery for ectopic pregnancy and being put straight back into a public waiting area, and then being told there was no bed to stay overnight.

That has to change, and I know we are making

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good strides towards This, but there is so much more to do. I'll move to the third point, which is specifically the mental health support that should surround baby loss, because of course, it's not only a physical experience or a bereavement, it can have a profound and lasting effect on mental health. Research published by Miscarriage Research published by Miscarriage UK in March this year found that more than two thirds 68% of respondents reported mental health respondents reported mental health problems following pregnancy loss, including anxiety, depression and post-traumatic stress.

Research supported by the National Institute for Health and Care Research, has broken that down for early pregnancy loss, finding that one month afterwards, 29% of women experienced post-traumatic stress symptoms, 24 experienced anxiety and 11% experienced depression severely. And this continues for many months and years and of course, includes people with no history of mental illness. And then, according to the baby loss charity Sands, only 1 in 6 bereaved parents were actually able are actually able to access any mental health care through the NHS.

So mental health support must be an integral part of the support after baby loss, and I would love to see national standards for mental health services for bereaved parents, as well as national guidance for the local commissioning of these services to help end the postcode lottery that I've spoken about. We of course, also need the staff and the training and the resources to be able to deliver these services. Something that we struggle with across the NHS, particularly for mental health. This is the only way to ensure that every parent experiencing baby loss will have access, not just to compassionate clinical care and bereavement support, but also to that appropriate mental health support, including a clear pathway for referral to specialist services where that's needed.

Ultimately, for every parent and family experiencing baby loss, the response from the NHS and from society has to be one of dignity

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and compassion, and it has to result in the right support, and I hope today's debate will be a step in that direction. Yeah.

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Yeah. Keith Battle. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I just start by paying tribute Can I just start by paying tribute to all the excellent speakers who shared their story with utmost bravery? This debate is one that bravery? This debate is one that I've attended since I was first elected, and it's the only debate I know where doorkeepers distribute know where doorkeepers distribute tissues. Quite rightly, I I'm the vice chair on the APPG for baby loss, and I do pay tribute to everyone who's contributed to this

21:38

Saqib Bhatti MP (Meriden and Solihull East, Conservative)

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debate and to the inquiry, as the APPG has carried out. I'm going to APPG has carried out. I'm going to start with a slightly more positive story, which is a personal one. But story, which is a personal one. But while the outcome was positive, there is relevance to some of the experiences that we had and we've experiences that we had and we've just we've just welcomed our third baby's about seven months old now, baby's about seven months old now, and we we had the good fortune to attend the, the midwifery unit in at Warwick Hospital, which is not in my constituency, but I, I would still encourage the Secretary of State to go and visit.

I'm sure the Member for Warwick and Leamington would welcome that. But we had a. We had a very positive experience in the sense that the midwives were really, really good in terms of their communication. When. And I'm going to protect my baby's identity. So he's got crazy hair, so I'm gonna call him baby Elvis. But baby. But but baby Elvis, when he came out, he wasn't breathing. And I, I remember the moment because in that moment, the midwife had pressed the panic alarm and he came out and he was grey and, you know, and I just I remember that kind of moment where my I suppose I speak about it today because my wife's been trying to get me to talk about it for about seven months and I haven't.

And now I'll do it in front of the TV cameras, I suppose, and she's very patient with him. But what I remember in those two moments, those takeaways, I suppose because my hon. Friend for Rutland Melton talked about CPR and the midwife just got straight into action, and I hadn't realised the room had filled up with the health professionals from across the hospital. It was it was quite a sight to see. When I turned around. Once everything had kind of settled down.

And in that moment I suppose I thought, oh my God, we're about to become another statistic. And those midwives did turn did work their magic. But I, you know, the, the, the talk of Non-birthing partners and the support that they need has come up in this debate. And, well, I don't want to take away anything from mothers and what they go through. And clearly, they go through everything as we've heard. I think there is a there is a call for any support that does come takes into account what partners and parents do because I, I would probably have to admit that I probably have thought about that moment many, many times in the last seven months, and I still do.

And in those kind of images, they don't really leave you. So anything the Secretary state can do and will do, I hope that is also taken into account in the limited time I've got. I'm just going to make a few calls and just recognise some of the charities that I've worked with in my locality, and I know there is work going on to do a national framework to make sure there are standards put in place. Of course, any standards that are put in place need to have KPIs and accountability along with those.

And so I'm sure the Secretary of State is looking, looking, and I do welcome her being in in her seat today. One of the things that really did help us as a as a family was to do I know families go through the NC parents go through the NCT training, but we actually went through a private provider called Bunter baby. And what one of the key things that came up was actually the training, I guess. I suppose we got to be able to challenge the, the, what was given to us.

And my hon. Friend from Rutland Melton spoke about this and being able to say actually no or why. And those things have been given the confidence to do so. And that really did help us. And actually, in that moment, the the midwives, when I talk about our baby, they did spend a lot of time answering our questions afterwards and making sure we had, you know, taking, really going over and above to recognise that there were questions that needed to be answered. And so I think the, the training on the way on pregnancies is really, really important to give, give parents, the, the, the, the power and their arsenal to be able to ask those questions.

The, the point about data and miscarriages has been made. And that's been also made to me from my constituents as well. So I hope the Secretary of State can clarify what thought process she's going through around collecting data on miscarriages. And I mentioned in my intervention to the hon. Member earlier, the the Lily Mae Foundation, I, I've met with Amy and Ryan, who set up the Lily Foundation over a decade ago. They've recently received a British Empire Medal. They are a a small ish charity.

They punch way above their weight. They're incredibly strong in what they do. They've trained. They've they've given therapy to over a thousand parents, grieving parents for baby loss. They've supported professionals giving them training as well. But they they pointed out the postcode lottery that does occur. And actually, if you're a smaller charity, you don't always get the support. And they're just being asked to do more with less. And I think that's really, really important. That was a point I just wanted to stress this time because of course, they are seeing first hand the kind of the increased load that they're seeing.

And one of the things I just wanted to finalise just, just pay tribute to a couple of friends of mine because of course, baby loss does touch everybody. And they, they've only just gone through it in the last couple of months. They had baby loss and they they experienced that in Musgrove Park. And they were really keen to for me to stress how great the Labour team were. But they did see, you know, grieving parents and bereaved parents next to families who were celebrating birth.

And clearly there is a that disparity still continues. It's one I've seen in other hospitals. So perhaps the Secretary state could reflect on that and, you know, pay tribute to the staff at Musgrove Park and recognise Baby Merlyn who who they sadly lost as well. And just to finish on on Thursday in Saint Philip's church. And I know many of my constituents will be gathering for the wave of light service that is being put up by the Teddy Rose Foundation through the

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through the windmill. Windmill dedication. Thank you. You were leading. So I wasn't quite sure if you were still quite sure if you were still speaking, but. Lizzi Collinge. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, I represent a Madam Deputy Speaker, I represent a large chunk of Morecambe Bay, and I will never forget the 2015 Kirkup will never forget the 2015 Kirkup report into maternity safety, published just one year after the birth of my first child. And I'm birth of my first child.

And I'm here today because too many babies are still dying. I have met too many bereaved families, whether that's Baby Ida's parents or the constituents who had a medical

21:45

Lizzi Collinge MP (Morecambe and Lunesdale, Labour)

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termination due to a fatal foetal abnormality, or the twins who lost their mum in childbirth, or indeed, their mum in childbirth, or indeed, the women I speak to regularly who've lost pregnancies at all stages now. Others have spoken stages now. Others have spoken about the Amos Review, the Ockenden reports, and the National Maternity and Neonatal Task Force, and I and Neonatal Task Force, and I would like to support my colleagues comments on these, and I would really like to hear from the Secretary of State in her closing remarks about how she'll drive the changes needed as outlined in those reports, and I would first direct her to the submission from the Patient safety APPG to the Amos review, and I will particularly direct the Secretary of State to the Japanese system of no fault compensation for cerebral palsy.

This gives automatic compensation to parents whose baby gets a brain injury, but doesn't prevent them taking further legal action. This has reduced costs, but more importantly, it's actually reduced the number of cases of profound cerebral palsy because it has standardised reporting and standardised learning processes. I also just want to briefly flag that health is much wider than healthcare that you receive. And the truth is right now that racism and poverty is killing babies and it's killing mums and we need to do something about it.

And those of us who are interested in patient safety talk a lot about culture. And this is quite a simple thing actually. Culture is simply the way we do things around here, but it can have a really profound impact on safety, particularly the psychological safety of staff to raise concerns, which in turn, of course, affects the safety of services. And senior leaders and ward managers need to be able to welcome concerns and act swiftly upon them. But unfortunately, we still see too many times a culture which makes life difficult for staff when they speak out, and managers and leaders who don't take responsibility, which is one of the reasons I welcome the Hillsborough law, because I think it changes the legal risk from one where honesty is seen as legally risky, to one where honesty, in the event of a tragedy, is now legally enforceable.

And further on, culture, I'd like to highlight in the chamber my worries that midwifery, education and culture in some instances still promotes normal birth ideology. I have seen this too often. In no other area do we expect bodies to work perfectly. And yet there is still some sections that think you can think your way to a natural birth. And I have seen the harm of this just too often. I want to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker, now about miscarriages, and I've left this until the end because, to be honest, even after nine years of pregnancy, loss can still sting.

Miscarriage is the most common complication of early pregnancy about a quarter of a million miscarriages every year. But even this isn't exactly clear. We don't know the true prevalence of miscarriage, and I think this means we're missing opportunities for data led service planning and of course, vital research. Miscarriage is really common, and I hope that the openness that we're developing as a nation can help women to recover, whilst also recognising that it can have a really severe impact on your mental health.

Tommy's data shows us that many months after a loss, many women have symptoms of anxiety, depression or even PTSD, and women who have experienced a miscarriage are 3.8 times more likely to die by suicide. Now, I'm not saying this is a direct causal link, but there is an association needs to be looked at, and I'm really proud of what we've done as a government for recognising baby loss and recognising the toll that a miscarriage can take. We have heard some of the problems with baby loss certificates and I hope those problems are addressed.

But finally, I just wanted to say it's wrong that women still have to go through three miscarriages most of the time before they get any care and support. So I would really urge Secretary of State to fully roll out the Tommy's graded model of miscarriage care. It is absolutely essential that women get an appropriate level of support, information and treatment. And when that happens to them. But I do want to give people some hope as well. I know there's some very recent experiences in the chamber today.

And last week I was reading a novel by Catherine Schulman, and she had a line in it. It was about the loss of a spouse. But it really reflects perfectly. I think, my feelings about a decade, about a decade after pregnancy loss. And it just reads it was still there, but quieter, a sad memory instead of a broken heart. And I just want to reassure colleagues that you can go some way to mending that broken heart. And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to offer my thanks to the people supporting families who lose babies.

I want to especially thank Matilda's Mission, a baby loss charity that works in my constituency of Morecambe and Lunesdale and who every year remembers Baby Collinge. They support so many families at the absolute worst time. They give them a community that understands them and supports them, and that's what we should have for every family. Thank you.

21:50

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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You Jim Shannon. Lady for Morecambe and Lunesdale and thank her for sharing her personal story, as many others have in this chamber as well. And those personal stories remind us all of the grief and the loss and the pain the grief and the loss and the pain that comes from that. So I think thank you, Madam Deputy, for allowing this important debate to be brought forward. Baby Loss Awareness Week provides an important opportunity to raise awareness and to reflect on loss. And I think I think probably everyone who has spoken tonight has reflected on loss, whether it be directly or through friends and family.

However, we must also recognise that the impact of baby loss extends beyond this week. It's not just this week, it's many other weeks as well, many more weeks of the year. But families continue to carry their grief long after this campaign ends. Excuse me, losing a baby both before and after term is devastating. Parents speak of the potential of what could have been the hope and the dreams that they had for their child, and the milestone that they believe that they would celebrate.

But that wasn't to be. And with this loss comes immense grief and anxiety and the impact of this, not only in the mother but on the wider family circles, cannot be underestimated. And sometimes I know that the mums and dads and the siblings will feel the pain probably more. But the grandparents and aunties and uncles and the sisters and brothers, they all feel it as well, because they're all they're all living for through that family member, hoping that that that new life will indeed be part of something that they can enjoy as well.

For many families, this affects can these effects continue to future pregnancies? Parents report feeling constant fear and anxiety, waiting with anticipation for this tragic event to happen again. And sadly for for some families, it does. For my mother, she lost her. She had four miscarriages. She. She had four children, but she also missed four. My speech trainer, Naomi, who's a very busy girl. She lost her her first baby as well. So many of my constituents tell me of their loss. So this debate tonight is for me, through this debate, to express on their behalf they're.

So the fact that it means so much to them supporting women through enough of this loss should be a priority. We must advocate for open communication amongst friends and families, as many women have shared that talking about their loss has helped them in their own healing and made them realise they're not alone in this experience, and you're not alone in this experience. If you're family, I bet you have many others who who've been through the same pain. Of course, supporting women in this loss is essential, but we must also do everything we can to prevent loss where possible.

And in early intervention, I drew attention to the research, suggesting that giving women access to specialised care after the first miscarriage could help prevent baby loss. Others have referred to that. I'm

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very happy to. I thank him for giving way. I my

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I thank him for giving way. I my my daughter is a rainbow baby and I my daughter is a rainbow baby and I feel so. It's amazing that we managed to. That we managed to have her. But the. The hurt and the pain that you get in. Getting to that position where you've lost children in between is absolutely unbelievable. So I wonder if he unbelievable. So I wonder if he agrees with me based on what he's just said, that it is so important that after that first loss, as Tommy's have suggested, that intervention and professional support is given immediately, both in terms of investigations and understanding what the cause is, but also in terms of that mental

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health support. I thank them for their intervention. Yes, I totally agree with that. And I think everybody with that. And I think everybody else in this chamber also agrees with it as well. The current specialist care is only offered after three miscarriages, but if it after three miscarriages, but if it was offered after one, then estimates suggest it's supporting. An early intervention could An early intervention could potentially prevent around 10,000 losses each year in the UK. That's a that's a magnitude of just one a that's a magnitude of just one step.

One step in the right direction. So I'm looking forward to the minister's response, and I hope the Minister can give us some encouragement and the vulnerability is a compassionate Minister and. And she understands how we all feel in this chamber in relation to this issue. I'm hoping we can get that that reassurance. I want to speak about Northern Ireland. I know the hon. Lady for Lagan Valley spoke about made some comments about Northern Ireland. I want to do something similar if I can as well.

I sincerely welcome the recent changes made in Northern Ireland as we become the first region in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to provide paid leave to both parents affected by miscarriage. Really important that our Minister took that step in the right direction at that time. Maybe that's something the Minister would consider for here as well, because in the mainland it was something that would help many, many people. It's estimated somewhere around ten 9000 people per year in Northern Ireland are affected by miscarriage.

And this leaves me in no doubt that this will have a real impact on families in Northern Ireland. Further efforts have also been made in Northern Ireland through the Baby Loss Certificate scheme. Again, another, perhaps a small way, but a big way in the effect that it has. Certificates are now available to anyone who has experienced a pregnancy loss before the end of the 24th week of pregnancy, and the formal recognition of these losses offer families who previously went unrecognised, I believe, a degree of comfort and closure and an intervention earlier on in the gentleman who said that I'd spoken to the importance of having a chaplain or a Minister available to give the succour and the care and the support and the help that sometimes needs that spiritual dimension of loss.

As a Christian, obviously that would mean a whole lot to me, but I think it would mean a whole lot to others as well if they had that opportunity. So perhaps, maybe, Minister, in that we can have some reassurance as well. We must ensure that the impact of these schemes are properly evaluated so that we can understand how effective they are in supporting bereaved families. If the evidence shows that these measures are making a meaningful difference, then this House, I believe, must consider how similar support can be implemented UK wide.

I conclude with this, Madam Chair. It is clear that baby loss has a lasting impact. Every baby loss represents a life that could have been lived in a future that might have been. We must show compassion and understanding to those affected,

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not only during Baby Awareness Week, but indeed every day of the year. Thank you. With colleagues withdrawing, we

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With colleagues withdrawing, we have a few more minutes on the clock. So backbenchers are on an eight minute speaking limit and I call Katrina Murray.

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call Katrina Murray. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I want to begin by telling the House about Rheticus. Gisela, the daughter of my constituents, Ferdi daughter of my constituents, Ferdi and Liz. I consider myself very

21:57

Katrina Murray MP (Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch, Labour)

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privileged that they have asked me privileged that they have asked me to to share Rita's story today and to to share Rita's story today and and not just sharing her story with me, but allowing me to share her me, but allowing me to share her story with the house during pregnancy. Ferdi and Liz learned that Rita had Edwards Syndrome, a that Rita had Edwards Syndrome, a life limiting condition. They knew that the time that they might have with her daughter could be desperately short.

Rita was born in December 20th, 2024, and spent nine days with her mum and dad at the Royal Hospital for Children in Glasgow. And Liz described those nine days as simply the best nine days of our lives. Nine days is a heartbreakingly short life, but Rita's life was a life filled with love and one that has already left an extraordinary legacy. In the months since Rita's death, Liz have channelled their grief into making things better for other babies with expected short lives and for their families.

Through Rita's legacy of Hope. Thousands of people have supported the fund raising. They have funded. They have funded Rita's room at Crossbasket House, providing a dedicated space for bereaved families to. No other family has to go through counselling sessions in an office providing two portable incubators, keeping parents. Allowing parents to keep their babies close and make the most of the precious time together, and a cuddle, cot and blanket system for Scotland's tertiary paediatric palliative care service.

It is an extraordinary legacy for one little girl, but through that work, Fady and Liz also identified something that they believe needs to change. Fady and Liz knew long before Rita was born that she had a life limiting condition, so that pregnancy was was full of months of hospital appointments, treatment, worry and uncertainty. They have been very clear to me that they were fortunate. They were financially able to take time away from work and had employers who would support them, but they also knew that that know that many families receiving the same devastating news will not be in that position.

No parent to learn at the time they may have with their child could be measured in hours or days. She should also have to worry about whether they can afford to take time away from work. Vardy and Liz believe that families whose baby has been diagnosed with a life limiting condition should have a statutory right to paid maternity paid leave during pregnancy. They called that proposal Rita's law. The government has already taken important steps to strengthen the rights of parents, including through the Employment Rights Act, and I particularly welcome the review of parental leave and pay and pay system that is now under way.

But Faddy and Liz's experience highlights a gap. The support available following the birth or death of a baby does not address the particular circumstances of parents who, during pregnancy, are told that their baby is expected to have a very short life. So I'm asking the Minister to work with the Department of Business, Innovation, Science and Technology to ensure that the needs of those families are explicitly considered as part of a parental leave and pay review, and to look seriously at Fadi and Liz's proposal for Rita's law.

Rita's life was heartbreakingly short, but it mattered enormously, and Fatty and Liz have ensured that Rita's name will be associated with compassion, dignity and giving families precious time together. And I hope that by listening to their call for change, we can help that legacy reach even further.

22:01

Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)

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ARC. >> Newbury. >> Thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to speak in this debate, which is always so powerful, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen for leading it so sensitively. There are very few things that compare to the joy of knowing that you're about to become a parent, considering names, imagining the future, and those little things in life that suddenly take on a whole new meaning. But for some families, there's a moment when all of that changes, when the future that was so full of possibility is filled with uncertainty and grief.

My constituents, Phil and Emma, were brave and generous in sharing their experiences with me and my team. Emma's story is one of repeated pregnancy loss, difficult childbirth experiences, and not receiving the care and support that she needed. I will share Emma's story in her own words and to warn hon. Members. Emma describes in harrowing detail her experience of miscarriage. Emma told me this our story of pregnancy loss started back in March 2019. I booked a GP appointment after continually bleeding for three weeks.

No pregnancy test was offered and I was told to just monitor the bleeding. After fainting at work from persistent blood loss, I visited the Samuel Johnson walk in centre and I was given a routine pregnancy test which came back positive. Emma's first miscarriage was followed by another pregnancy in February 2020 during the pandemic. She described the anxiety of attending appointments alone without her husband after her previous experience of loss. She went on to give birth to her daughter Alice, but difficulties did not end there.

Following her discharge, Emma developed an infection and was passed between three hospitals. She describes being physically weak, emotionally struggling and without the support she needed. After experiencing birth trauma. Emma and Phil were understandably nervous about having another child, but in March of this year, they discovered they were expecting again. Excited about the possibility of a positive experience, Emma wrote I had an in-person eight week midwife check on the 19th of March and was advised I needed birth trauma counselling, which I welcomed as I felt it finally felt as though somebody was listening and caring about my past experiences.

But at 11 weeks, Emma began spotting and knew she needed help quickly. She called the early pregnancy unit at New Cross Hospital eight times before her call was answered. Despite her concerns, she was offered an appointment. Several days later, a private scan confirmed that the pregnancy was no longer viable, but the hospital couldn't bring her appointment forward. M describes what happened next when we attended the new Cross Epu on the 14th of April, we had to sit in the same room as pregnant women and ironically, were taken into the same room where my first pregnancy was confirmed as a miscarriage.

Despite the findings, Emma was told she needed another scan in ten days. She was sent home without pain relief, follow up appointments or even a number to call for help. Just three days later, Emma experienced a devastating medical emergency at home. She said I went to the toilet and found I'd haemorrhaged completely through my clothing. I was scared and alone. Emma passed out and was found in a pool of blood by her mother, who called 999. After waiting 45 minutes, the ambulance service called back to say that Emma would have to make her own way to hospital.

Her husband struggled to get her into the car and drive her to New Cross. When they arrived, the staff hadn't been informed of her situation. Emma described that experience. My husband at this point pleaded with the staff for me to be seen. He had to explain multiple times what had happened, all whilst I was bleeding heavily. Eventually, Emma was taken into a treatment room where her blood pressure dropped dramatically low and she lost consciousness. She was taken to intensive care where staff discussed blood transfusions and emergency treatment.

Emma's clear that the staff who cared for her that day were wonderful, but her experience leading up to that point raises questions about the support available to women experiencing pregnancy loss and medical emergencies. Emma was discharged with blood thinning injections, but no emotional support or follow up appointments. She sought help for her mental health, only to be told that miscarriage was just something that happens and given an NHS Talking Therapies leaflet. She eventually contacted Tom Hayes, where she finally felt listened to and supported.

Emma also raises a wider concern about how pregnancy loss is counted and recognised. She said despite the fact that I've had two miscarriages because I had a healthy pregnancy in the middle of those, my account will be reset to one, almost rendering my first miscarriage as forgotten and pointless. Madam Deputy Speaker. Emma's story highlights the physical and emotional impact of pregnancy loss, the importance of timely and compassionate care, and the need to consider the experiences of partners and families alongside those women themselves.

I want to finish by returning to Emma's words emotionally. It's an incredibly difficult time, but physically the pain women go through is totally underestimated. We want change for women's health, change for partner support, and change for all the families that have had to experience any maternity issues or baby loss. It was so encouraging to see the government introduce two weeks of unpaid leave for those who experienced pregnancy loss in any form and at any stage, and I'm proud of the ambition set out in the women's health Strategy.

But we now need to move as quickly as we can to ensure every woman has access to high quality miscarriage care and bereavement support, irrelevant of if she lives in Cannock Chase, rural Northumberland or central London. No family should have to find out that the support available to them depends on their postcode. We've made important progress. Now we need to make sure that progress is felt by every woman and every family that experiences the heartbreak of losing their baby.

22:07

Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )

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Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Jayne Kirkham. Thank you, Madam

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Jayne Kirkham. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituent little Brown Tunnicliffe. little Brown Tunnicliffe. Tunnicliffe was born on the 11th of December 2024. He suffered a severe head injury during his birth and died on the 17th of December 2024. On 7th of February, he had his funeral. He was born at Royal Cornwall Hospital in Cornwall, and he was transferred to Southmead after that. I'm here to make some of the points that his parents have made to me about the care that he had, and make some other points, actually, that haven't been made yet about the the system of post-mortems and coroner's inquests.

Firstly, the mental health support was a struggle after what happened for brands parents to get for his mum, and there was very little support for the other parent. And this is a point that's been raised across the House that the other parent often is, is left to feel that that they are just there and what they what they think and feel isn't taken into consideration and often doesn't really matter. The. But I was asked to say that the team at the bereavement team have been very good throughout Helen and Phil's experience.

They also wanted me to say that the recommendations in some of the reports and investigations are made as. As the hon. Member for Godalming and Ash mentioned, many, many times, many, many recommendations. But whether these are actually acted upon and how parents can make sure that some of those that the care improves after those recommendations are made is, is very difficult. Last year I spoke about Bran and the previous health secretary met his parents, Helen and Phil, and they fed into the government's review.

Some of the points that were made were also relevant to the Ministry of Justice. So one of the Ministers from the MoJ was there too. There was a very long wait for a pathologist's report. In Brown's case, this is a common issue, the lack of pathologists, and it's something that the Minister did take away. Also, Brown's inquest has been delayed. In fact, it's still being delayed and is scheduled to take place in the new year. So that's over two years since Brown died, which is an extremely long time.

They also made the point that they have had a number of dealings with the coroner's court, and they thought that maybe improved training for the coroner's court when dealing with parents who undergone this kind of this kind of thing, would be helpful because they found the whole process extremely difficult. I wanted to raise some charities who really helped brands, family who are local to us in Cornwall, Luna's fund, who supports parents in Devon and Cornwall to Wish, which is a child bereavement charity, and Helen and Phil set up their own charity for Brown Brown's Library, which gifts picture books to to parents in similar situations.

I wanted also to mention my predecessor actually in this place, Sherilyn McCrory, who spoke very movingly when she was in this House about her experiences and her daughter Lily, and she was the co-chair of the baby loss APPG again, I believe, with the Member for Godalming and Ash, so many families are affected by baby loss. My own is no exception. And anything that we can do to learn from the experiences of our our constituents, our own families.

So the Health Secretary that it's so fantastic that she's been here throughout this debate can take away these stories and can make improvements for the future.

22:11

Matt Turmaine MP (Watford, Labour)

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Matt Turmaine thank you, Madam >> Matt Turmaine thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it's an honour to follow the Member for Truro and Falmouth. I'd like to pay tribute Falmouth. I'd like to pay tribute to all of the members who have made such emotional, moving and powerful such emotional, moving and powerful contributions this evening. Madam Deputy Speaker, a number of hon. Members have mentioned continuity of care, and I must confess to something of a thrill upon being elected to this place in July 2024 to quite soon afterwards, finding myself in a committee room in portcullis House next to Professor Chris Whitty discussing continuity of care and it may not surprise you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that he thinks it's a good idea as well as many people in this room do.

The right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash also mentioned the importance of a good functioning team in the NHS to ensure decent outcomes, and I saw this quite recently last week when I visited my local hospital to see a team of surgeons and other staff operating a robot in order to remove a gall bladder from a patient delivering really good outcomes. And that importance of having a really well integrated team together is absolutely vital. This obviously is a really important debate, and those experiencing baby loss have an especially tragic bereavement.

The loss of a loved one or friend is always tragic, something to be sympathised with in solidarity. But those experiencing the loss of a baby are particularly deserving of our kindness, sympathy and support. The life cut short the potential that has disappeared, the joy of growing and living together, of shared love, laughter in life relegated to the imagination and the hopes of what might have been the intention of the Secretary of State is clear to support women and families let down by maternity services.

And personally, I'm very glad to see that the early loss is being recognised with the Baby Loss Certificate scheme, which covers pregnancy loss before 24 weeks. The government is investing in services to support families dealing with the tragedy of baby loss. Every ICB is funded. Specialist bereavement midwives and bereavement services, for example in Hertfordshire, in which my constituency of Watford is located, there are many organisations doing amazing work to support those grieving the loss of a baby or miscarriage, with those offering support including alternatives.

Watford, West, Harts Hospitals, Charity, Petals, Chums, Sands and Tommys, as well as GP practices, and the county council, which also has a network for staff who have experienced baby loss and providing much needed support. In a former career, I worked in health and social care, including for the Hertfordshire Safeguarding Children's Board and in my experience of supporting serious case reviews into the death of a child or the Child Death Overview panel, it is important to recognise the engagement of health staff in being determined to find out what has gone wrong, and we should acknowledge that I welcome the efforts of the government and those supporting this work to minimise the incidence of baby loss and to

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ensure that nobody goes unsupported when experiencing it. Thank you. Hey. Did a little bit sooner than

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Did a little bit sooner than expected. I called the front benches and I called the Liberal Democrat spokesperson. Helen Morgan.

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Democrat spokesperson. Helen Morgan. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'll start by declaring my interest as a member and former co-chair of both the and former co-chair of both the Baby Loss and Maternity Appgs and a member of the birth trauma APPG. And by thanking the Honourable and right hon. Members for Sherwood Forest, Rossendale and Darwen and Godalming and Ash for securing this important debate to Mark Baby Loss Awareness Week. And it has been an

22:15

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

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emotional evening listening to the contributions of members across the House in this debate who've either

22:15

Matt Turmaine MP (Watford, Labour)

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House in this debate who've either bravely shared their own stories or those of their constituents, or who have worked incredibly hard to

22:15

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

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bring about improvements in both maternity and neonatal care and bereavement care for those families who faced the loss of the baby, and who faced the loss of the baby, and in some cases, both of those things. in some cases, both of those things. Since I was elected in December 2021, there have been far too many reports which have come to Parliament which detail the unimaginable pain of families who've lost or injured babies or mums from Shrewsbury and Telford, which impacted families in my community, some of whom were my close friends, and which I've spoken about on a number of occasions in this place through East Kent, Nottingham and the many hospitals included in the Amos review and now new inquiries into Leeds and Sussex.

There have been many, many reports and far too little action. The silent scandal of the maternity crisis in this country has unfolded in plain sight. Maternal deaths are higher than at any point in the last decade. 65% of maternity units are not rated as adequately safe by the CQC, who've warned that there's a risk of normalising serious harm in maternity care. The latest NHS UK report shows that women from black ethnic backgrounds are nearly three times as likely to die during, or up to six weeks after pregnancy, compared to women from white ethnic backgrounds and with women from Asian ethnic backgrounds also facing a slightly increased risk.

Stillbirth rates for babies born to mothers living in the most deprived areas remain significantly higher than those in the least deprived areas. Women in the most deprived areas are also twice as likely to die during or shortly after pregnancy, compared to those in the least deprived areas. The 2015 National Maternity Safety Ambition aimed to halve the 2010 rates of stillbirth, neonatal and maternal deaths and brain injuries occurring during or soon after birth. By 2025. We've missed the target on this, and targets for the future haven't been set, and they must be.

£1.3 billion is spent every year on medical negligence payments. We're spending the equivalent of a third of the whole maternity Budget on the price of failure. Rather than keeping moms and babies safe in the first place. And we know that many experienced clinicians are leaving the profession burnt out by exhaustion, the crumbling units they work in, and the lack of time for training for the increasingly complex pregnancies and births that they must deal with. Now, I welcome the fact that the government, despite there having been three Secretaries of State this year, has shown commitment to improving maternity services.

The agreement to create the statutory Maternity Commissioner and to legislate for that in the House Bill as it makes its way through the Other place, is undoubtedly a good step forward, and I thank both the Secretary of State and the Minister, the hon. Member for Bristol South, for their constructive and collaborative approach to making that happen. The government's also established a maternity task force and commissioned Baroness Amos review. All welcome acknowledgements that improvement in maternity services should be of the highest priority, but there have unfortunately been missteps too.

Removing the ring fence from service development funding the very fund designed to support enhanced care for complex pregnancies, multiple births and bereavement care and support is incomprehensible in the light of the concerns that have been so widely raised, and I call on the Secretary of State to reinstate it. Liberal Democrats have put improvements in maternity at the heart of our work in this Parliament, and we've proposed a package to tackle the crisis, starting with safe staffing on every ward. Now, often when things go wrong, that happens at night or at a weekend when the on call consultant is at home.

Because I think we've all we all know that babies famously haven't grasped the importance of respecting normal working hours. We would ensure that there's a consultant obstetrician present 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that 1 to 1 midwifery care for every woman in labour is available, so that the early signs of complication in labour are recognised quickly. Now we know that many pregnancies and births are more complex now. Training teams to deal with that is essential, and we call on the government to introduce mandatory, regularly updated salary training for all staff and for those in leadership roles.

We'd work on a culture of openness, learning from mistakes and speaking up when it's obvious that things are going wrong. Lots of members this evening have talked about better support throughout pregnancy, ensuring that high risk mums have the right team around them from the start and that, crucially, women are listened to throughout their pregnancy. We tackle the huge disparities in outcomes for black, Asian and disabled women and from those and those from deprived backgrounds through better training to understand risk, alongside investment in the public health measures that are so critical to tackle some of the drivers of these disparities.

And finally, we urge the government to recognise that, tragically, not every pregnancy goes to plan. We urge the government to record all miscarriages so that the issue is no longer hidden. Support every woman who has had a miscarriage, not make them wait for the third one and invest in showing that there is bereavement care for every family who needs it. Now, there is undoubtedly a cost to all this. Of course there is, but it is less than half of that eye watering medical negligence bill.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the third inquiry highlights the failure of the NHS to learn from mistakes and implement recommendations from detailed investigations that are undertaken when things go wrong. It's highlighted how constant top down reorganisations of the NHS have prevented progress and obscured the monitoring of improvements, and it says that a lack of political will has failed to overcome the barriers to change for the better. I've heard colleagues from all sides, all parties, both sides of the House agree on the urgent need to improve maternity services this evening, and I'm encouraged by the steps that the government has taken so far.

But now it's time for action. I'm ready to work with colleagues from all parties to tackle this crisis, and to ensure that no other family has to endure the pain of the avoidable loss of their beloved baby. I look forward to hearing from the Secretary of State that the government has the political will to do the same. Thank you.

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Shadow Minister. Doctor Caroline Johnson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And before I start, I must declare And before I start, I must declare an interest as a consultant NHS paediatrician, a member of the British Medical Association, a British Medical Association, a member of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, and also that I've worked in neonatal intensive care in a number of different hospitals, including Nottingham University hospitals, where I worked as a junior doctor in part and very partly overlapped in part and very partly overlapped the initial period of the Ockenden review.

I'd like to congratulate the hon. Members for Rossendale and Darwen and Sherwood Forest and my right hon. Friend the Member for

22:22

Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)

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22:31

Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, Labour)

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22:55

Andy MacNae MP (Rossendale and Darwen, Labour)

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Andy MacNae to wind up. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and thank you. Thank you to everyone that spoken today and shared your experience. It it it is not easy. And in that regard, I should just reflect on a comment made by my hon. Friend from Lancaster and Wyre. There are colleagues who couldn't be here today because their losses are too recent and too painful. And so. And as many others reflected, baby loss is is something that affects, I think, far, far more of us than we actually realise.

So. So thank you all. And thank you to the Secretary of State for being here, for being here throughout. It does mean a lot. It really, really does matter. And your commitment and passion does shine through to get this right. But we've we've heard a consensus, a clear consensus across the House today about what needs to be done. I think we all need to be very clear that in a year's time, and we'll be back here in a year's time, we need to be talking about what has been done real, tangible, concrete actions and deliver that.

We need the resource, the institutional capacity, the leadership to actually drive that change through with the urgency and the practicality that we need. So next year, let's be celebrating what we've done, not what needs to

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be done. Thank you. Yeah. And the question is, as on the order papers, may that opinion say order papers, may that opinion say I Of the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Before I go to the next set of business, I go to the next set of business, I will allow the front benchers a Walk Walk a little bit faster. Fantastic. Fantastic. From benches. Are we ready? Petition Jayne Kirkham.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

22:57

Petitions Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )

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I'm not the first to talk about >> I'm not the first to talk about the issue of Cubert Crossroads, which has defeated many people over a thousand people in two small villages, have signed this petition. The problem is becoming worse because in the summer months, traffic volumes have increased significantly and we have far more seasonal visitors and far more new houses around the area.

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So the petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urge the government to support the urge the government to support the campaign to ensure that Cubert Crossroads has appropriate highway safety measures in place, recognising the importance of recognising the importance of having a safe crossroads that

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doesn't put road users at risk. Petition highway safety measures.

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At Cubert Crossroads.

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At Cubert Crossroads. Thank you. I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn, and I call Linsey Farnsworth on government support

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for high streets in Amber Valley constituency. Linsey Farnsworth. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There are.

22:58

Adjournment: Government support for high streets in Amber Valley constituency

Few occasions in this place. Where members universally agree. But recognising the importance of town centres to our communities is one such occasion, which is why I'm pleased to be bringing this debate, and why I'm glad that the

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Adjournment: Government support for high streets in Amber Valley constituency Linsey Farnsworth MP (Amber Valley, Labour)

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23:11

Jim McMahon MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton, Labour )

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Minister. Minister. Jim McMahon. grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley for securing this important debate and for the passionate way that she continues to champion the community continues to champion the community that she represents in Amber Valley. I really believe that she was a I really believe that she was a fantastic champion on the Denby issue, and I think all of us who care about our heritage care about those good, skilled, working class jobs, really mourned its loss. And I think the way that she continues to fight to say that isn't the end of the community that is there.

And actually we need to investment in the future, I think is really important. So I welcome this opportunity to set out the government's approach to supporting high streets, both in Amber Valley and across the country. High streets matter because they are far more than just places to shop. They are where people meet friends, visit local businesses, access services and spend time together. When a high street succeeds, it can lift confidence in a place and support local economic growth. But when it struggles, the impact is felt across the whole community.

And that is why the government has made this a priority. I know that Amber Valley towns and communities have felt many of the same pressures seen across the country changes in shopping habits, vacant premises, crime and anti-social behaviour, the increasing challenge of attracting investment have all had an impact on our town centres. Yet there are also real strengths to build on, including proud local businesses, active communities and a strong sense of local identity. Amber Valley has been a recipient of regeneration funding, including Lahaina Area that received 8.59 million through the Future High Streets Fund.

Support and improvements that she referenced in her speech to the marketplace for the restoration of the former grammar school and planned for a new town centre housing those investments demonstrate the role regeneration can play in preserving heritage, improving places and encouraging future growth. But it is quite clear that her ambition goes even further into alfredton and beyond. And I thought the Somercotes theatre that she made reference to is a fantastic example, and hopefully I'll give her some hope to route, potentially that she might be able to apply to because the government is making high streets a priority.

On the 27th of September, we announced £210 million to bring derelict buildings back into use to tackle vacancy and support community ownership and control. We are introducing reforms that will benefit high streets across the country, and we are tackling long term vacancy through the high street rental auctions. These powers enable councils to bring persistently vacant properties back into use and make town centre premises more accessible to businesses and the community. More than 40 authorities are already using these new powers, and have brought over 80 properties back into use, and to accelerate delivery, we have announced a further £10 million to support councils and are reviewing new funding payments to ensure that councils have the resources that they need to implement these powers quickly.

We're also empowering communities to take greater role in shaping their local high streets through the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act, we have introduced a new community Right to Buy, helping local people take ownership of value community assets such as pubs, shops and community buildings when they are at risk of being lost. We also are acting to tackle the issues that too often undermine confidence in our town centres. For instance, through a £13 million crackdown on high street organised crime, stronger closure powers and the creation of a dedicated High streets organised crime unit.

We're supporting legitimate businesses and helping communities take back control of their high streets, because we know that retail crime remains a significant concern for local businesses. And that's why, in addition to the other measures, we through the Crime and Policing Act, we introduced a new offence of assault in a retail worker, and we've removed the £200 threshold for shop theft, making it clear that all shop theft is unacceptable and will be treated seriously. We're also supporting businesses directly and have introduced permanently lower business rate multipliers for eligible businesses, hospitality and leisure properties, alongside additional support for pubs and live music venues.

We've also legislated a ban to ban upward only rent reviews in commercial leases, helping to create a fairer and more flexible commercial property market that supports investment and reduces the risk of long term empty properties. Alongside this, the business growth service is helping small and medium sized businesses access finance advice support to start growing invest, ensuring that local businesses can continue to play their vital role at the heart of our town centres, we recognise that communities want attractive high streets that reflect local character, and that is why we're giving councils stronger powers to address a clustering of bait shops and gambling premises, and supporting better standards for shopfronts and for public open spaces.

However, we know there is more to do. Later this year, we will publish a new high street strategy, setting out our longer term plan for supporting businesses, bringing back life into our town centres, and helping communities to shape the future of their high streets. The strategy is being developed in partnership with businesses, civic leaders and local communities because we know that thriving high streets cannot be delivered by central government alone. Our ambition is clear high streets that are safe, that are vibrant, that are economically successful, places where people want to invest, and importantly, places that local people can be proud of.

I know my hon. Friend will continue to make the case for Amber Valley as that work progresses, and I welcome her contribution to this conversation and all her hard work, and I hope that we can meet soon to share the future success of the projects that she's mentioned.

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Question is this House do now adjourn. And many like to say I. I many of that opinion say aye. The many of that opinion say aye. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

This debate has concluded

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