Commons Chamber

Thursday 10th September 2026

(began 11 hours, 37 minutes ago)

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None Portrait Oral questions: Cabinet Office
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Joe Powell. Mr. speaker, Minister.
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Paulette Hamilton Portrait Paulette Hamilton MP (Birmingham Erdington, Labour)
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Resilience is obviously the crucial question for the country, and the government is right to be focusing on the need to strengthen the centre of government to achieve that. My concern is that the legislation, which has been trailed according to a leak in the times this week or briefing, presumably from the Cabinet Office, is that the Cabinet Secretary is proposing to take new powers to direct permanent secretaries of government departments. Can the Minister confirm whether legislation is in fact planned to change the statutory basis of the civil service? And most importantly, does he agree whether the Cabinet Secretary should or should not have

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the power to direct permanent secretaries? Well, I would generally advise

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Well, I would generally advise the hon. Member, as I'm sure he's aware, not to believe everything that he reads in the newspapers, that he reads in the newspapers, but I hope he would have his approval and the approval of the House that this government and new House that this government and new Prime Minister, new First Secretary of State, will want to look very carefully at the structures of the

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civil service and ensure that they are delivering for the priorities of this government. Alison Bennett thank you, Mr. Speaker. After a winter of torrential rain and a summer without any rain, residents in Mid Sussex are incredibly concerned about the impacts of drought and flooding. And amongst those residents are our farmers. Yesterday was back British Farming Day and I spoke to Caroline, a West Sussex farmer, who was really concerned about their capacity to grow the food that we all need to eat.

So will the government make better use of water storage capacity available on British farms, including by removing planning and funding barriers to on farm reservoirs as part of its approach

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to building national resilience? Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. Lady is right to raise this important is right to raise this important point. Food security is national security, and this government will always back our farmers. I think always back our farmers. I think she raises some important points. I can say to her that this government and government departments stand and government departments stand ready to respond to natural hazard risks, such as drought and flooding, severe storms and extreme severe storms and extreme temperatures.

And the Cobra Directorate in the Cabinet Office works in partnership with departmental policy teams and public entities to ensure that our response is proportionate to the nature of the climate threat that

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we face. Well. Mr. Number three, please.

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Minister. deepening. Our ties with the European Union.

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Our ties with the European Union. Mr. speaker, it is right at the centre of everything we are trying to do on cost of living and energy, to do on cost of living and energy, as well as the security of our continent. I will continue to lead discussions with my counterpart, Commissioner Sedgwick, who I met Commissioner Sedgwick, who I met most recently on Monday, on how we can continue to strengthen the UK EU partnership.
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Kanishka Narayan Portrait Rt Hon Kanishka Narayan MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Jointly with the Department for Business, Innovation, Science and Technology) (Vale of Glamorgan, Labour)
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. British farmers and fishers and my shellfish exporters continue to shellfish exporters continue to face unnecessary trade barriers with our largest export market. A 2024 report from the Centre of Inclusive Trade Policy found that exports of British food to the EU had dropped by nearly £3 billion had dropped by nearly £3 billion since Brexit. Our farmers and fishers desperately need an SPS agreement and fast to reduce costs and bureaucracy, and to allow them to export their produce to the EU.

Yet the second UK EU summit was postponed following the former Prime Minister's resignation, and we have had no update on when it will take place. Now I hear the Minister say that he met Mr. Chetkovich yesterday. So can he now tell us and commit to the summit taking place this year? And can he give our British farmers and fishers a date for when that is

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going to happen? Yes, sir. Mr. speaker, I'm determined to

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Mr. speaker, I'm determined to get the SPS agreement done. It is the subject of intense discussions. I cannot provide the House with a I cannot provide the House with a date just yet. That will need to be agreed, of course, between the UK and the EU, but I hope to be able

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and the EU, but I hope to be able to provide a further update soon. David Chelmsford. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was an extraordinary debate going on right now inside and outside AI companies as to whether or not the possibility of AI destroying humanity is more or less than 10%. Now, the European Union is moving ahead with a comprehensive AI regulatory framework, but the UK continues to rely on existing regulation. So could the Minister tell me what discussions he's having with the European Union about aligning AI regulation, especially given that the anthropic has refused to submit its model to the AI Safety Security Institute? How is he assuring that

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we can keep European and UK citizens safe? Mr. My hon. Friend is right to

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My hon. Friend is right to highlight the shared challenges that we face with the European Union, including, obviously, the very rapid developments in artificial intelligence. I am proud to sit next to the first AI to sit next to the first AI Minister to attend Cabinet here and indeed anywhere. And I know that he has some questions that he'll be has some questions that he'll be answering during this session as well. Clearly, this is a matter of real interest and concern, as my hon.

Friend says, and we're working at pace to address it. Burghart.

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Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to begin by welcoming the Minister to his post, and I very Minister to his post, and I very much look forward to him updating the House on his negotiating mandate and on his conversations with the European Trade Commissioner. Earlier this summer, the Prime Minister said that it would be wrong to rerun divisive would be wrong to rerun divisive arguments about rejoining the EU. But soon after, the Minister for EU relations refused to rule out rejoin being an option in the next Labour manifesto.

So will the Minister tell the House? Will Labour rule out rejoin featuring in the next manifesto?
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Ian Byrne Portrait Ian Byrne MP (Liverpool West Derby, Labour)
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Sarah Hall number four, Mr. >> Speaker. >> Secretary of State. >> The office of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and No. 10 North are and Cabinet and No. 10 North are working closely with regional leaders, the Treasury and departments across government to align national policy with the long align national policy with the long term economic priorities of different places and remove barriers to growth. This includes fiscally devolving a share of income tax and business rates to mayors, giving local leaders greater power to attract private investment, create good jobs and deliver growth in every postcode.



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Sarah Hall thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. Britain's future growth depends on having the infrastructure, energy, skills and industrial capacity to support it. But too often investment is held back because the problems sit back because the problems sit across different departments, whether that is grid capacity, water transport or skills. How will the department make sure this government deals with those problems together so we can reindustrialise Britain and bring

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reindustrialise Britain and bring growth to every postcode? Hey. Well, my hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight this. And too long local leaders have had to navigate Whitehall departments who have played each other, played each other off against each other to unlock growth for their areas. No. 10 North brings their priorities into the heart of government, gets the right people around the table and drives joined up action, ensuring the centre works as one to unlock good growth in every part of the United Kingdom.



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Wilkinson. Our long term economic success is only going to be strengthened by our cyber be strengthened by our cyber security and right next to Gchq in Cheltenham, which Ministers are aware of is the Golden Valley development, which is going to development, which is going to support our cyber security capacity. It's a vital development for the nation as well as my local area. Now, will the government go a little bit further on the matter of the designated area? So the the designated area? So the proceeds from that development can be held locally, which I think is in line with the new agenda that's being set by the Cabinet Office.

And also, will they restart the discussions around the places for growth scheme, which seem to have stalled with the local authorities

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and the developer? I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman's question, and that's exactly the kind of project that exactly the kind of project that No. 10 North will gladly look at to consider whether that should be a designated zone for further designated zone for further retention powers. I'll ask No. 10 North to write to him to consider

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North to write to him to consider the proposal. Peter Bedford. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The government has reviewed all 306 active arm's length bodies, and we have commitments to reform over one third of them, but we will go further. Devolution by default means we will transfer arm's length bodies functions to local leaders or return them to departments, because all critical decisions should be taken by Ministers who

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are directly accountable to Parliament and the public. Peter Bedford. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There are actually over 400 quangos in existence that spend over £390 billion a year. That's 1 in 3 billion a year. That's 1 in 3 pounds of every pound spent by the government. Last year, Ministers promised a full review of these. As promised a full review of these. As an accountant, we would call that zero based budgeting. So will the Minister tell the House how many of Minister tell the House how many of those bodies have been scrapped? How much has been saved?

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Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm afraid the hon. Member appears not to have fully heard my initial response, fully heard my initial response, which I believe probably tackles oppositions. His question was about arms and bodies. Of course, I answered on arms and bodies. There answered on arms and bodies. There were 306 of them we are reviewing over a third. I would have hoped that you would have welcomed that, that you would have welcomed that, because devolution by default means restoring powers to where it should be.

Democratic accountability.

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be. Democratic accountability. Darren Paffey. Madam Deputy

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Speaker. With your. Permission, Madam. Deputy Speaker, I am going to answer questions seven and 15 together. Current service levels are completely unacceptable, and we are completely unacceptable, and we are holding accountable by withholding payments in the short term and assessing the long term term and assessing the long term viability of bringing the scheme in-house. We will continue to use the most stringent commercial levers that we have under this contract, which was signed by the last government, to ensure that we have full accountability.
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Hamish Falconer Portrait Rt Hon Hamish Falconer MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Jointly with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
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Happy. her place and thank her for her answer. In Southampton Itchen, I've got constituents who have been deprived their pension for many months. One waited over a year even for an accurate quotation. Another, after 40 years of service, is yet to receive a penny and one with stage four cancer. Took three months to get any money. And only then, after I'd nagged a Minister to intervene when I was a Southampton city councillor, we ended Capita's contract and took those services back in-house.

Isn't it time for the government to consider doing the same?

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Yeah. I thank my hon. Friend for raising his constituents cases and raising his constituents cases and I've had many similar in Doncaster as well. I want to assure him and his constituents that I am using his constituents that I am using all the levers at my disposal to ensure that capita delivers a better performance at the earliest better performance at the earliest possible time. We have set out our intention to advance the biggest wave of insourcing in a generation, wave of insourcing in a generation, and we are now actively shaping a long term strategy to look at what that would look like if we brought the pension scheme back in-house.

He will, of course, be aware of our manifesto commitment to have the

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biggest wave of insourcing in a generation, and I am committed to fulfilling that. Alex Barros-Curtis very much,

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Alex Barros-Curtis very much, Madam Deputy Speaker and I share my friend's warm welcome to my hon. friend's warm welcome to my hon. Friend in her new position, I too in surgery after surgery, have examples of capita failing to do its job, and the latest example of its job, and the latest example of this was a surgery just the other week, a constituent of mine called Craig, who since July has received Craig, who since July has received no pension payment or calculation. Will the Minister please look into Craig's case and also do everything

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she can to give capita the boot pay? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Look, the performance of capita has been totally abysmal, and I have raised this a number of times in raised this a number of times in this House myself as well. And I can assure him that we will be holding capita to account, holding capita to account, including withholding nearly £10 million of contractual payments, because we will not pay for

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services that have not been delivered. Yeah. If the hon. Friend will write to me, I will ensure that his case is

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investigated and get back to him at the soonest at the earliest possible opportunity. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Despite dedicating their lives to public service through long careers in the civil service, many of my constituents have faced severe delays with their pension payments, causing them anxiety and financial causing them anxiety and financial hardship. So how will the Minister ensure that her department gives my constituents the support they need constituents the support they need to ensure that this crisis gets resolved, but also, just as

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importantly, doesn't happen again? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. So the Department is an independent, So the Department is an independent, capita funded remedial adviser that has been appointed to identify service delivery issues to allow us service delivery issues to allow us to continue to hold capita fully accountable. There is also around 147 surge staff that have been deployed in this crisis. The government remains committed to maintaining resource levels. No team members will be withdrawn from that surge team until service levels are permanently fixed.

And as I said in my previous answers, we are using all commercial levers that we have at our disposal, including withholding those payments so that capita are held accountable. And we are exploring

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very closely options of bringing the pension scheme in-house. Doctor Ellie Chowns.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Numerous constituents in North Herefordshire have had the same problems with the Civil Service pension scheme run by capita. One example is my constituent, Ruth. Her husband worked for the Ministry Her husband worked for the Ministry of Defence. He died in service nearly a year ago. She's been waiting 11 months for a death in waiting 11 months for a death in service, payment and pension. Capita promised to get this result all bereavement cases done by the end of August.

They broke that promise this week. She is still waiting. This is utterly unacceptable. I welcome the fact unacceptable. I welcome the fact the Minister says there will be penalties for capita, but does she not recognise this is such a clear example that outsourcing does not work? And will she ensure that capita doesn't get contracts like this ever again?
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Louise Haigh Portrait Rt Hon Louise Haigh MP, First Secretary of State, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Sheffield Heeley, Labour)
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the House have as well, and I will be providing, hopefully, a more be providing, hopefully, a more substantive update in October. But as I've said previously, my answer is their performance is totally unacceptable. I am not going to unacceptable. I am not going to defend that, and I will continue to hold them to account every single day that I am in office, until the day that I am in office, until the service levels are brought back up to an acceptable standard, and all of our constituents get their pension that they should have had pension that they should have had in your case 11 months ago, and I will continue to do that.

We are looking at bringing the pension scheme in House and looking at the different options that are available to do that. It's in our manifesto to commit to the biggest

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wave of insourcing in a generation, and we are all committed to doing that. Rosie Wrighting question number

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Rosie Wrighting question number eight, please. Madam Deputy Speaker, sir. Thank you, madam. Deputy Speaker. I am working with colleagues right across with colleagues right across government to deliver good AI jobs in every part of this country. That means a focus on capabilities, AI means a focus on capabilities, AI skills, boosts for individuals, AI for funds. It means a focus on compute with AI growth programme. AI research resource for British AI research resource for British Start-ups. It means a focus on capital through the British Business Bank and sovereign AI.

And at the heart of it, it means the

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focus on culture so that we're building AI for good in every part of the country. Minister may wish to check his

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Minister may wish to check his notes. That question is grouped with number 18. Rosie Wrighting thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to welcome Deputy Speaker. I'd like to welcome my hon. Friend to his place. I'm particularly pleased to see him as a First Minister for AI around the a First Minister for AI around the Cabinet table. In order for AI productivity gains to be felt in productivity gains to be felt in every postcode and in areas like Kettering, we need to reduce the barriers of entry for small and medium sized businesses.

So what is his department doing to make sure it's as easy as possible for SMEs to upskill their workers and access this new technology so its impact isn't contained to a few large

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companies? Well, can I. Firstly thank my hon. Friend. She's been a champion both in this place and as someone with great experience in technology from her prior career as well, which is a source of insight for all of us. On the particular question of AI support for small businesses, we have a skills boost programme with have a skills boost programme with a particular focus on upskilling 2 million individuals in SMEs. The biggest targeted training programme cells, Harold Harold Wilson's Open University programme as well.

Alongside that, my focus is on making sure that procurement programmes in AI are supporting small businesses in every part of this country, including through an

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AI R&D scheme that is supporting those businesses. Paulette Hamilton thank you,

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Paulette Hamilton thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I also welcome my hon. Friend to his place, Birmingham, as an enormous potential to benefit from the growth of AI. But communities like mine in Erdington must not be left behind. What steps is the Minister behind. What steps is the Minister taking with colleagues across government to ensure that young people in in constituencies like mine in Birmingham Erdington have access to the skills, apprenticeships and training they need to secure the new well-paid need to secure the new well-paid jobs being created by AI.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Meg Hillier Portrait Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )
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Well, can I firstly thank my hon. Friend for our shared commitment to the fact that, unlike the last wave of technology in this wave of AI, everyone across this country must feel the opportunity that it offers. And for that reason, we are focussed on both the AI skills boost I mentioned, as well as upskilling challenge funds, so that local areas across the country can benefit from those resources. I'm also looking very closely at AI bootcamp pilots to support, in particular, young people not in employment, education and training to learn the lessons of it and working closely with trade unions on the earlier Careers Jobs Alliance, thinking about where the future of jobs will go so that Britain is best prepared for every

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community to make the most of it. Ian Byrne. Question number nine.

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Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Speaker, there is a well established process for the revocation of honours. Any instance revocation of honours. Any instance where a recipient may be deemed to have bought the honour system into disrepute can be considered by the

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Independent Forfeiture Committee. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In December last year, the Independent Office for Police Independent Office for Police Conduct found that Sir Norman Bettison, the Chief Inspector for South Yorkshire Police at the time of Hillsborough, would have had a case to answer for gross misconduct had he still been serving an officer at Saving Officer today. It's related to his role in the Hillsborough cover up to deliberate dishonesty and the aftermath of the disaster, and for lying about his involvement during his application for the post of Chief Constable of Merseyside in 1998.

Yesterday I wrote to the Prime Minister asking the Honours and Forfeiture Committee. I've taken December's finding into account. Will my hon. Friend confirm these findings are being considered by the committee and if not, make representations that it should be, yeah.

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Madam Deputy Speaker, let me start by paying tribute to the work of my hon. Friend on. This year here.

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This year here. This government is absolutely clear. The Hillsborough disaster must never happen again. That is must never happen again. That is why the Public Office Accountability Bill will establish a new duty of candour and assistance to inquiries and investigations backed by criminal sanctions. This will also extend to sanctions. This will also extend to police misconduct investigation. My hon. Friend will understand why I'm not in a position to comment on an individual case from the floor of the House, but I'd like to reassure him that I've seen his correspondence with my predecessor

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on this question, and I'm looking at it very carefully. Dame Meg Hillier.

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Dame Meg Hillier. Question number 11. The Infected Blood Compensation Authority has Blood Compensation Authority has asked 6321 people to start their claim. I'm sorry to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the horrible Deputy Speaker, that the horrible nature of this awful scandal means there is inherent uncertainty about the number of eligible people, but the number of eligible people, but we are deeply committed to ensuring everyone eligible receives the compensation they are due. Ayoub Khan has a registration service which supports its understanding of who intends to claim.

As of the 25th of August, Ayoub Khan has received 20,487 registrations.
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Louise Haigh Portrait Rt Hon Louise Haigh MP, First Secretary of State, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Sheffield Heeley, Labour)
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Meg Hillier. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and my right hon. Friends and I welcome her to a place of response. It demonstrates really the complications of these schemes. I'd ask the National Audit Office to look into this. And yesterday, the Public Accounts Committee published its report into compensation schemes, suggesting that there was a central body to be established. I know that she and her department will respond in due course formally to that, but could she give the House a hint about whether she thinks that there is room for improvement? As government sets up different compensation schemes on different systems? That can be very complicated, and we don't seem to

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practice. Thank you. Well, my right hon. Friend, with her considerable Friend, with her considerable experience in this area, is absolutely right. The fact of the matter is that no amount of money will make up for the impact that this terrible tragedy had on countless victims and their families, but we're determined to deliver justice as swiftly as possible. We're very grateful to the work of the committee in their time. Assessing the progress made time. Assessing the progress made on compensation schemes.

We're also considering the. As part of the government's response to the Williams inquiry report, in which we indicated that the government would give further thought to how redress should be delivered in future and will respond to the Public Accounts Committee in due course.
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None Portrait Urgent Question: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if she will make a statement on the failure of the United Kingdom’s air traffic control system and the resulting disruption to flights and passengers
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>> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to ask the Secretary of State for transport if she will make a statement on the failure of the United Kingdom's air traffic control system and the resulting disruption to flights and passengers.

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Minister. Thank you, and good morning, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I will ensure that the comments you have
10:44
Keir Mather Portrait Keir Mather MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Selby, Labour)
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ensure that the comments you have made are relayed. May I begin again by apologising to passengers across the United Kingdom who faced significant disruption as a result of the issues which impacted Nats operation on the 8th of September, resulting in delays and cancellations for hundreds of thousands of passengers, as well as the disruption that it has caused for industry. Let me be clear that disruption of this kind is absolutely unacceptable. Now, to provide some context to the House, at around lunchtime on the 8th of September, Nats experienced an issue with its flight processing system at its Swanwick Centre, affecting the data which was available to controllers.

The disruption had a significant impact across the UK aviation network, resulting in widespread delays, cancellations and diversions. Nats worked hard to fix this issue, but this took time as the systems needed to be tested to ensure that they had fully recovered and that operations could safely return to normal. My officials were in regular contact with Nats, Airlines and airports during the incident to understand the issues impacting them and to offer government support, such as granting night flight Alleviations to support recovery at regulated airports including Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted.

Nats have confirmed it was a technical issue and do not believe it to be cyber related. The Secretary of State and I met with Martin Rolfe yesterday, and we've agreed that he will send a report to us by Wednesday the 16th of September, setting out the cause of the incident and the actions that are being taken to ensure that this cannot happen again. The Secretary of State has also asked the CAA to conduct an independent review to establish cause, and to ensure that our air traffic control systems can get passengers to where they need to be, with an update provided to me within six months.

We will work closely with both organisations, airlines and airports to ensure that lessons are learned and that any necessary improvements are implemented. This morning I met with representatives from Unite the Union to hear directly about the impact of the incident on airport and airline staff, and to discuss broader issues with them relating to the abuse of frontline transport workers. I would like to express mine and the Secretary of State's gratitude to all those staff at our airports and airlines who provided support to passengers whose journeys were disrupted over the past few days, and our sympathies remain with all those passengers who have experienced delays or cancellations to their travel plans.
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Greg Smith Portrait Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
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Greg Smith thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Over 2000 flights cancelled. More than 150,000 passengers affected. Delays, disruption, pain and embarrassment disruption, pain and embarrassment for Britain. What an absolute mess. And as you said, Madam Deputy Speaker, no offer of a statement from the government. Hence this urgent question from these conservative benches. Nothing sums the situation facing real people this week up better than Martin Brundle's scathing post on Tuesday. I quote nine hours and counting, sitting on a plane which has travelled nowhere at a remote parking bay, no food throughout, and mothers and babies, and a person with a medical condition desperate to get off as everyone else's toilets no longer available as blocked.

No sign of steps or buses. And that's before the wait for luggage. Pathetic and dangerous. Lack of corporate contingency and responsibility. Is the Minister not embarrassed? A report by the 16th of September into recess. Six months to then fully diagnose the problem. That's not good enough. A third failure deserves immediate action, not delaying tactics. The government has a considerable say in how Nats operates. Ministers cannot suddenly discover the virtues of arm's length government when something goes wrong. In an organisation in which the taxpayer owns 49%.

Passengers have heard before that lessons will be learned. Reviews commissioned and improvements made. They do not want another sorry story of apologies and assurances while everyone waits for the next failure. A cyber attack has been ruled out. So exactly what did happen? Was it a software failure? Was sufficient? Engineers available on site? Were previous recommendations actually implemented? And if they were, why on earth are we back here again? And why are airlines and airports lacking suitable contingency plans? When Nats fails, when government fails, but there is no government support on the ground? The Secretary of State needs to take responsibility, get a grip of this mess and make sure that this time lessons are not simply learned.

That acted upon Minister.
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Keir Mather Portrait Keir Mather MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Selby, Labour)
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Well, I thank the Shadow Minister for his questions. He asks Minister for his questions. He asks me for more detail about what exactly happened now that a cyber attack has been ruled out. The disruption was caused by a technical issue within nights within Nats Swanwick flights processing system. It affected the processing of flight plans used by data controllers. Nats have advised that the problem was affecting the flight processing system and the the data that was being fed into controller radar displays. A fix was implemented later in the day, but recovery took time as Nats needed to test that that system was safe.

But he is right to raise the experience of Martin and so many other hundreds of thousands of passengers across the United Kingdom who were adversely affected. It raises really serious questions about contingency planning and resilience planning at our airports, conversations that I am determined to take forward with the CAA, Nats and with airlines and airports in the coming days. He criticises the fact that it's going to take around a week to get this report back to us. It's incredibly important that we take the time to figure out exactly what's happened, because ultimately this is about aviation safety.

This is about making sure that the UK can retain its reputation for passengers, getting to where they need to go, whilst protecting their safety. Also, the question was raised about it going into recess. I'm happy to return after recess to answer any questions that you may have about that. That hon. Members may have about this issue. There is a broader question, as well, about the CAA being asked to conduct an urgent review into this and to report back within six months, and whether or not that is the right timeline.

I would remind them that after the largest recent outage in 2023, it took two and a half years for the CAA to fully assess the implications and all of the technical improvements and requirements that would be needed as a result of that incident. They provided 34 recommendations and all of which have been implemented. A six month time frame to get to the bottom of what is a highly technical matter and an incident of disruption is proportionate, but it is also timely, and it will allow us to react quickly with stringent ministerial oversight.

So when the shadow Minister asks Ministers to take control of this situation, to exercise effective oversight on behalf of passengers, that is exactly what we are doing.
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John McDonnell Portrait Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Labour)
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Well, I've noted the Minister's proactive commitment to a ministerial statement there. John McDonnell. >> Can I thank. Can I thank the Minister for his statement? Nats used to be in my constituency and then moved down to Swanwick and of course, with Heathrow. My constituency, as I mentioned yesterday, I'll receive a large number of correspondence from a whole range of constituents, from other MPs who think I'm responsible for Heathrow Airport. But can I can

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I say that in the. Resigned. I'm grateful.

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Can. Can you control these. Sir? Mr. Gammell, I'll. Maybe. Right.

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Mr. Gammell, I'll. Maybe. Right. Well, that was very well done. Then John McDonnell. OK. It's it's it's not a laughing matter. I'm sorry for interrupting the flow of the discussion that's taking place on that basis, but can I can I just that basis, but can I can I just say this, it would be useful in the review to look at the long term investment plans of Nats since particularly since its partial privatisation in 2001, which I opposed. But also, can I also thank him for meeting unite this morning and thanking the workers who've worked so hard? But can I also say, and I understand from my experience of Nats, when things have gone wrong, the PCs members in Nats itself are the technical members themselves will have been scrambling, working incredibly hard to put this right, and I hope we can thank them as well.

And I say to the opposition spokesperson, he never made any reference today with regard to the workers themselves. They've worked incredibly hard, as the Minister has said, some of them have experienced horrendous abuse, and we should congratulate them and support them in their work. Minister.
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Keir Mather Portrait Keir Mather MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Selby, Labour)
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I thank the Lib Dem spokesperson for his questions. One factor that for his questions. One factor that I would like to point out, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that more often than not, our air traffic control systems and the individuals who systems and the individuals who work within them provide a safe and effective service for UK air passengers in a typical year. Nats handles over 2.5 million flights, and around 300 million passengers travel over the UK and across the North Atlantic. We are responsible for a large proportion of European air traffic, and Nats does a good job to be able to make sure that UK passengers get to places safely.

Incidents like this, though, and the fact that they have occurred three times within four years, do bring home the fact that when disruption does occur, it is incredibly difficult for passengers and for our airlines and airports to adapt to. So he is absolutely right to say that lessons must be learned. There are technical lessons that must be learned, and that is what we will get to the bottom of through the report from Nats and then from the six month report from the CAA. But he is right to raise broader questions.

And if we are to facilitate what this government wants to achieve, which is a programme of ambitious expansion in our airport capacity, particularly in the south east of England, we will do so with passenger safety at its heart and oversight of Nats. Effective oversight must run to the core of that.
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Keir Mather Portrait Keir Mather MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Selby, Labour)
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Well, that is a very fair >> Well, that is a very fair challenge from the hon. Member, and I would say that our response to ensure that his constituents get ensure that his constituents get the protections that they need are threefold. Firstly, we need to learn the lessons of what has happened, the nature of the technical fault, and to fix it to minimise the chance of it ever happening again. Secondly, there is a broader resilience question around air connectivity from Northern Ireland, and I would like to work with him and other hon.

Members to think about how that can be strengthened further, but I would reassure him that resilience work on that matter is widespread across the Department for transport and is at the forefront of our minds. And thirdly, there is the question of residents of Northern Ireland being able to benefit from the measures included within the Civil Aviation Bill, specifically designed to strengthen consumer protections, to enhance air passenger rights and to make more streamlined the system of aviation safety that we have in this country.

I would look forward to working with him and other hon. Members on those important issues.

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At the end of the Urgent Question air traffic control, disruption of the front bench wish disruption of the front bench wish to shuffle over very quickly. We now come to business questions and

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now come to business questions and Deputy Shadow Leader John Lamont. Thank you very much. Will the Leader of the House give us the
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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will include Monday, the 14th of September. Consideration of an allocation of time motion followed allocation of time motion followed by all stages of the sovereign Grant Bill, followed by motions to approve recommendations by the Modernisation Committee and Committee of Privileges and Changes to Standing Orders following to Standing Orders following machinery of government changes, followed by a general debate on Israel and Palestine. Tuesday the 15th of September. A general debate on the potential merits of a full ban on fracking, followed by a general debate on World Sepsis Awareness Month.

The subjects for these debates are determined by the Backbench Business Committee. The House will then rise for the conference recess at the conclusion of business on Tuesday the 15th of September and return on Monday the 12th of October. The business for the week commencing the 12th of October will include Monday the 12th of October. A general debate on Baby Loss Awareness Week, the subject for this debate, determined by the backbench Business Committee. Tuesday the 13th of October. Remaining stages of the Courts and Tribunals Bill, followed by consideration of a carry over motion relating to the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill.

Wednesday the 14th of October Opposition Day, an official opposition day subject yet to be announced Thursday the 15th of October. Second Reading of the Highways Financing Bill followed on Friday the 16th of October. Private members bills and the provisional business for the week commencing the 19th of October includes Monday the 19th of October. October. Committee of the whole House of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill. Day one on Tuesday, the 20th of October. Conclusion of Committee and remaining stages of the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill.

Members may also wish to know. Madam Deputy Speaker, that, subject to the progress of business, the House will rise for the November recess. The close of business on Wednesday, the 4th of November and return on Tuesday the 10th of November. The House will rise for the Christmas recess at the close of business on Thursday the 17th of December, and will now return on Tuesday, the 5th of January 2027. The House will rise for the February recess at the close of business on Thursday the 11th of February 2027 and return on Monday, the 22nd of February.

The House will rise for the Easter recess at the close of business on Thursday the 25th of March and return on Monday the 12th of April. The House will rise for the May Bank holiday recess at the close of business on Thursday, the 29th of April, and return on Tuesday, the 4th of May. The House will rise for the Whitsun recess at the close of business on Thursday, the 27th of May, and return on Monday, the 7th of June, and the House will rise for the summer recess at the close of July.
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John Lamont Portrait John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)
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Army Deputy leader. >> Army Deputy leader. >> Thank you very much. I'm grateful to the leader for outlining the business and, of course, the recess dates. It's course, the recess dates. It's always good to look forward to the next recess. Tomorrow marks the 25th anniversary of the appalling terrorist attacks on the United States. We remember the thousands of innocent people who went to work that morning, boarded aircraft or reported for duty in the emergency services and never returned home.

We remember their families and all those whose lives were changed forever. Earlier this year, I had the privilege of visiting the nine over 11 Memorial in New York, standing where the Twin Towers once stood. It is an incredibly moving experience and a powerful reminder of the terrible events of that day and the courage and resilience that followed them a quarter of a century on, we should never forget the victims, nor should we ever waver in our determination to confront terrorism and defend the freedoms and values that those responsible sought to attack.

Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps I can now turn to matters closer to home. The leader has announced that the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill will be rushed through the House over a couple of days in October, with no separate Report stage. This is very little time to consider such a complex bill, particularly as the government is reported to be preparing to table over 100 amendments. I therefore ask the Leader of the House if he will ensure that the government amendments are tabled before the House rises on Tuesday, and will he explain why the government is not providing a separate Report stage? There seems to be growing chatter on the government benches about an early general election, with some apparently wondering whether the new Prime Minister might even go to the country before Christmas.

Will the leader. The Leader of the House, is, of course, a man right at the heart of the government decision making and will know better than most what is being discussed in Downing Street. So, for the benefit of an increasingly nervous Labour backbench, can he give the House a simple assurance today? Will this Parliament run its full course, or will the new Prime Minister already be running away from difficult decisions? Madam Deputy Speaker, Turning to Scotland, last week, the SNP government published its latest programme for government.

After nearly two decades in power, Scotland was promised renewal. Instead, as Russell Findlay put it, we got more meddling and gimmicks, more centralisation, more bureaucracy and yet more attempts to distract from the SNP's dire record in office. This was on full display when the Pisa school results were published recently, showing Scotlands once world class education system is now considered to be just average. A particular concern to my constituents is the extraordinary proposal by the SNP government to abolish Scotland's 14 territorial health boards and replace them with just two.

This means that the abolition of NHS borders as we know it. People in my constituency in the Scottish Borders have already experienced the consequences of SNP centralisation, with Police Scotland and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. They do not want vital healthcare decisions taken away, taken further away from the communities those services exist to serve. So will the Leader of the House join me in paying tribute to the hard working staff in NHS borders, and call on an increasingly centralising SNP government not to forget rural and remote communities in Scotland.

Finally, farming is the backbone of communities across borders, across the borders and across rural Britain. Despite the enormous concern expressed by farmers and farming businesses, Labour's family farm tax is now in force. So, ahead of the Budget next month, will the Leader of the House convey a very simple message to the Chancellor? Listen to our farmers, recognise the damage that this tax is doing to confidence and succession planning, and finally, do the right thing, scrap the
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Family farm tax. >> Yeah. >> Leader. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I thank the shadow Deputy Leader for his remarks. Before I turn to his specific questions. Can I remind the House that today is World Suicide Prevention Day? And when someone takes their own life, the impact on family and friends is devastating and widespread. And today is an opportunity for all of us to unite behind one clear and unambiguous message that suicides are preventable. And I want to place on record my sincere thanks to the many community groups and charities across the country who offer compassionate, life saving support to those affected.

And I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, the Member for Blaydon and Consett, for her thoughtful contribution in leading the Westminster Hall debate on this matter on Tuesday. This government is firmly committed to tackling suicide and new mental health hubs and emergency centres announced over the summer represent a crucial step forward in delivering early community based support. Madam Deputy Speaker, as the shadow deputy leader said tomorrow marks the 25th anniversary of the nine over 11 terrorist attacks and I too have seen the site of the attacks, and it is a harrowing reminder.

We remember the 2977 innocent lives lost, including 67 British citizens and the countless families whose lives were forever changed. We pay tribute to the extraordinary bravery, bravery of the first responders, the firefighters, the police officers and the medical personnel who risked and sacrificed their lives running towards the danger in order to save others. Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been an important week for government announcements. On Tuesday, the Foreign Secretary set out our response to illegal settlements in the Palestinian territories. The government has announced targeted sanctions, introduced an important ban on goods originating from illegal settlements and taking action against companies and individuals providing services, infrastructure or finance for settlement expansion.

And as we have made clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, these settlements are illegal and the occupation of Palestinian territories is unlawful. The Chancellor also set out this week how the government will make Great Britain growth. Britain again, which will will we will drive devolution, provide more public leadership and control more investment, more innovation and more jobs, and there will be growth. Madam Deputy Speaker, in every postcode, let me now turn to the remarks of the shadow Deputy Leader on the Northern Ireland Bill, which I have just announced.

We will be taking shortly after the conference recess. I haven't announced two days on the floor of the House for the Committee stage and also remaining stages. It is often the case when matters are dealt with on the floor of the House, that the Report stage is either unnecessary or there is a great deal of time which is necessary. But I take away what he says, and I also take away what he says about making sure that the amendments are timely, because, Madam Deputy Speaker, we want to go further at the Committee stage with a substantial package of amendments safeguarding our operation banner veterans.

None of these protections were included in previous legislation, which instead left our veterans in legal limbo. So I do take into account what he said, but we're not going to take any lessons from the party opposite. He talked about the chatter about an early general election, if there is any. It's on the other side. And I would just say to the I would just say, I would just say to the other side, I would just say to the other side of the house, be careful what you wish for.

As the Prime Minister has made clear, he has no intention to call an early general election because there is an important job to do. He is determined to get on with that job. I think he's made a fantastic start and he he intends to continue to do everything that we can to make our country a better place to live and work in. Again, he talks about the situation in north of the border and mentioned Scottish education. I remember when Scottish education was the model for education, not just in the United Kingdom, but often around the world as well.

And all I would say on this matter is that the lack of ambition, which appears to be north of the border from the. The current government is in stark contrast to the ambition that we have for every young person at this side of the border, and I am happy. I am happy to pay tribute to NHS staff in his area, as I would do NHS staff everywhere else, but I think and I would agree with him. I think this Prime Minister and this new administration is very clear that we believe that devolution is the way forward.

Decisions making locally are where they affect people is the way forward rather than centralisation. And therefore I do agree with what the shadow deputy leader has said. And as far as farming is concerned, I am not going to comment, obviously, on anything that might be or might not be in the Budget, but I would simply point out that we are supporting farming, not least with the £65 million extra that we provided.
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Wendy Chamberlain Portrait Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, and I. >> Echo. >> The comments made in relation to the September 11th attacks. the September 11th attacks. Anniversary. 20 nearly 25 years ago, my husband and I visited the site of the Twin Towers in April. After the attacks. We were both police officers at that time and realising that we and our colleagues would have to face the same dangers as others had done. So it really did bring home the scale of the sacrifice made.

And having attended a debate on confidence in policing yesterday, I know how important trust in policing is. But Madam Deputy Speaker, reform UK's disdain for British electoral law was broadcast to the nation last week in undercover footage involving the hon. Member for Clacton, who I have emailed, and some of his closest advisers. The Metropolitan Police, was, of course, already investigating reform UK and it has now confirmed it is broadening its inquiry to include foreign donations involving polling. And I find it ironic that a party that takes so much of its reputation on claims of patriotism spends far more time trying to get around British law than it does in strengthening it.

So I wonder if reform MPs will share with the country whether they and their campaigns have ever benefited from any foreign money. And I would also reiterate the calls that I made over recess for reforms. Home affairs spokesperson to provide evidence for the damaging claims he made online against a business in my North East Fife constituency. Several weeks on, we and I are. They and I are still waiting and we are living in an unstable world. Madam Deputy Speaker, where dodgy donations are routine and corruption is common.

Bad actors like Elon Musk, Vladimir Putin and reform pin up boy Donald Trump are dedicated to destroying our democracy. The government and all parliamentarians should be standing up against these threats. And again, for a party so keen to ensure relationships with our nearest neighbours, they seem happy to jeopardise our sovereignty by encouraging foreign interference. But Madam Deputy Speaker, the Representation of the People Bill that passed through the Commons last week did not include a donation cap and therefore failed to protect our political system from the corrupting influence of foreign money.

Given the Bill was debated before MPs were aware of those concerning allegations, will the government provide time to legislate to protect British democracy?
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Bob Blackman thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Announcing the business. Since the changes, we've been inundated with requests from the select committees to have statements in the House, which I welcome. So Tuesday there'll be statements, Select Committee statements on the Treasury Committee report and the Public Accounts Committee reports before the two debates that we've scheduled. I know that the leader will share my concern about the first day back being the debate on baby baby Loss Awareness Week, following what happened last year when, because of government statements, the debate took place late at night.

And it was very difficult, I think, for many members to contribute. We thought long and hard before we allocated this. We approached the sponsors of the debate and they were insistent that they wanted the debate on the first day back. So I hope that the leader will once again provide protected time and that he will prevail on his colleagues not to have too many statements from the government so we can have a reasonable debate on the subject. There are in addition, Madam Deputy Speaker, another five potential Select Committee statements that are going to come forward in the next few weeks, which I.

Once again, as I welcome. Indeed, if we are offered the 22nd of October, we have potential debates as well, ready to go on in Westminster Hall on Tuesday, there'll be a debate on building safety, remediation of residential buildings, and on the 13th of October, Tuesday 13th, a debate on future of the UK coach industry. On the 22nd of October, there'll be a Select Committee statement from the Joint Committee on Human Rights, followed by a debate on support from paid carers, followed by a debate on the progress towards a smoke free UK on Tuesday the 20th of October.

There will be a debate on manufacturing skills and on Thursday the 22nd, a debate on compensation for Equitable life policyholders. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, Deputy Speaker, I'm sure that the whole House will recognise the importance of hospital radio across the country. The hospital radio gives great comfort to patients, both the music, the discussions, the news, particularly when people are suffering in hospital. I'm pleased to say that next month, before we come back, Radio Broccoli, which operates in my constituency at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital, will be celebrating its 60th anniversary.

It is the longest running hospital radio station in London, and indeed, we have volunteers who've served for more than 40 years giving their service to that hospital, so I'm sure the leader will join me in congratulating Radio Broccoli on this wonderful anniversary. And possibly we could have a statement in government time on the importance of hospital radio, on the health service and the benefits it brings to patients and staff.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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And Deputy Speaker, I thank the >> And Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he's told the House today, but also for his ongoing work as chair of the ongoing work as chair of the backbench Business Committee. He is right that the baby loss debate is scheduled for the first day back. scheduled for the first day back. He will know that the way in which this happened last time concerned me greatly, and which is why we did wonder whether or not it could be perhaps taken at another time.

But that's not turned out to be the case. So it will be on the first Monday that we get back. And he talks about two things. The first is protected time, and I will certainly I've already thought about that, and I will certainly give that some further thought. And I hope that we can get to that place. But I have to say to him that that might be a bit of a mixed blessing, unless we have real discipline on that day and some of that discipline.

Caerphilly I say this is not entirely in my hands, but what is to some extent in our hands, in the government hands, is the number of statesmen that we have. We're coming back from conference. I would expect there to be announcements over the recess, and therefore I would expect statements, but I'll do everything that I can to make sure that there is not just time for that debate, but an appropriate time for that debate, because there are so many parents and family who come down for that, that they deserve the best that we can provide.

I join with him in in thanking everyone involved in hospital radio across the country. Madam Deputy Speaker, I agree with him about the importance and particularly congratulating Radio Broccoli on their 60th anniversary. That's a remarkable achievement. So well done to them. And thank you to all the volunteers, not just now, but all of those who've volunteered in the past.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's more than a shared intention of the Prime Minister. It's one of the things that drives him when he was previously a member of this House. That was the case and he has returned with that drive to. She's she's right that not all of the parties took up the offer in the way that the Prime Minister asked for. However, however, the the Liberal Democrats did, and I pay tribute to her for that.

I will take away her comments about other parties that might want to be invited in the future. We can't guarantee that they will turn up, but other parties being invited in the future and see what the government intends to do, what the government intends to do to move this situation forward, because it's an area which we have to do. We have to move forward and it will be done much better on a

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cross-party basis. Thank you. Thank you very. Much, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Flytipping and littering are a blight on our littering are a blight on our communities. That's why I'm proud of the work of amazing organisations like the Friends of Welsh, Harp, Friends of Heyburn Welsh, Harp, Friends of Heyburn Park, the Burnt Oak Nepalese community, the litter pickers at Saint Mary's and many more for the Saint Mary's and many more for the work they do to keep Hendon looking its best.

I'm working with them to hold my next big Hendon litter pick on the 25th of October, over 100 people attended the last one, and this one promises to be even bigger. Will my right hon. Friend join me in thanking all the selfless volunteers and brilliant organisations that keep Hendon tidy and in and in encouraging people to come along. On the 25th there's a high viz and a bin bag with his name on it. If he's free that day.
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Bell Ribeiro-Addy Portrait Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP (Clapham and Brixton Hill, Labour)
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Bell Ribeiro-Addy thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Professor Madam Deputy Speaker. Professor Jason Day, aged 41 and the youngest black professor in Cambridge's history, was found dead at his home in my constituency on the 13th of August, days after resigning his chair and after a sustained press and intrusion and harassment, an inquest has opened. But there are serious questions for government on press regulation and widespread calls for a public inquiry. Tens of thousands attended a vigil in Trafalgar Square. Vigils have been held from Bradford to Bristol.

Constituents have sent emails. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have both commented. But there has been no statement in this House. The government cannot comment on their own terms, where members cannot scrutinise and then resist a debate the whole House can join. Is the leader aware that this House regularly debates policy arising from deaths whilst proceedings are live? Leaving those proceedings alone? Press regulation in July 2011, after the hacking of Milly Dowler's phone, fire safety after Grenfell policing and the safety of women in March 2021 after the death of Sarah Everard, also my constituent, all during court proceedings.

The death of Molly Russell during the passage of the Online Safety Act, the death of Lucy Meadows and Caroline Flack both connected to press conduct. But the press pursue a black man to the end of his life, and this house says nothing about their conduct. I do not have to tell the Leader of the House why this is wrong. So all I will ask him is when the government will rectify it.
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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Ilford North, Labour)
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clear is that the United Kingdom will not be bystanders in that will not be bystanders in that struggle. The front line is Ukraine and in Kyiv. On my first overseas trip, I saw for myself what modern tyranny looks like. President Putin's illegal and unprovoked Putin's illegal and unprovoked invasion is a challenge to the collective security of all of us in Europe. History teaches us, especially the history of our continent, that when imperialist ambitions go unchallenged, leaders like President Putin come back for more.

That is why Ukraine's security is our security, and why we will not waver for one second in our support for Ukraine. This week I co-chaired my first meeting of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group with my German counterpart, Boris Pistorius, alongside Ukraine's new defence Minister, Evgeny Kamara, and NATO secretary general Mark Rutter. We know that President Putin, facing the reality that Russian casualties surpassed 1.5 million this week, is preparing to intensify his barbaric attacks against civilian and energy targets over the coming months.

And when I met President Zelensky, I heard loud and clear the vital importance of supporting Ukraine through this winter, as did the Prime Minister. We promised to mobilise allies and provide more support wherever we can, and we are delivering on that commitment, strengthening Ukraine's defences and alongside over 50 nations, converting commitment into capability. That is why this week I announced that the UK is pledging £100 million to support the rapid delivery of air defence interceptors in response to a direct request from Ukraine.

We also reaffirmed our commitment to provide more than 120 000 drones to Ukraine through the course of this year. In total, Madam Deputy Speaker, the United Kingdom has committed £25 billion for Ukraine. That includes nearly 20 million rounds of small arms, ammunition, more than 1 million artillery shells, over 100,000 drones and thousands of air defence missiles and armoured vehicles. Winter in Ukraine is no longer a season. It is a weapon in Kyiv, the Prime Minister and I saw firsthand the destructive consequences of this war, but we also experienced the spirit and strength of the Ukrainian people.

The message we delivered on behalf of this government and on behalf of the British people was unequivocal. We will be with Ukraine for as long as it takes. That commitment is built on the rock solid foundations laid by our Labour and Conservative predecessors, who stood shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine since day one. Boris Johnson pledged anti-armor missiles before Russia's invasion and in one of his first acts in office. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister handed over blueprints for British made missile components so that Ukraine can produce long range weapons on its own assembly lines.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been a striking feature during an especially divisive period in British politics. That support for Ukraine unites this House, and one of the things I feel most strongly about in this role is showing our allies, but particularly our adversaries, that there is an enormous amount of consensus and national unity when it comes to defence, that unity is itself a projection of strength and deterrence. So I say to colleagues across this House, it is your job and the job of Parliament to hold us to account.

And it is right that you do. But let's not manufacture difference where it doesn't exist on this issue more than any other, there is far more that unites us than divides us. And we have a collective responsibility to level with the British people. If the first duty of government is to keep our country safe, then it is a greater and more urgent responsibility than it has been for generations. The threats we face are not only evolving, they are getting closer to home every day.

The UK and our allies encounter espionage, cyber attacks and military posturing by hostile states. Just yesterday, a 31 year old British man was charged under the National Security Act over alleged contact with Russia's military intelligence agency. Alongside these threats comes the bellicose rhetoric we hear from the Kremlin. Russia is constantly probing us and testing us, and the tragic irony of where we find ourselves is that Russia and sees the UK and NATO as a threat, which in reality simply does not exist.

The UK is not at war with Russia, nor do we seek confrontation with Russia, nor do we have any quarrel with the Russian people. All we seek to do is to defend freedom, democracy, our interests, our allies and our values. And contrary to the propaganda, NATO has always been a defensive alliance. And if there is one thing that President Putin has achieved through the war in Ukraine, it has been to strengthen NATO and our commitment to our collective defence and security.

So Moscow should be in no doubt we are ready to defend every inch of NATO should Russia attack. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, knowing the gravity of the threats our country faces, this government has overseen the biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the Cold War. We are already investing £15 billion more in defence than we were even at the last spending review, and over the next four years, we will be investing £298 billion as a percentage of GDP.

We have gone from 2.3%. When Labour came to office just two years ago to next year, reaching 2.7%. And we know that this Prime Minister and this Chancellor are both fully committed to funding our nation's defence, including meeting our NATO commitment of 3.5% by 2035 and setting out an earlier 3% commitment at the next spending review. No one disputes that there is more to do to get there, but it is important to emphasise just how much new money is already going into defence.

That money is what allows us to do those things we need to do to strengthen our deterrence, so that our adversaries think twice about attacking us and to strengthen our capabilities so that we have the resources to fight and win. If deterrence fails, that means making sure every penny is spent wisely. Both new money and existing budgets, so that our military has the equipment, the training, and the kit they need to keep us safe. It means making sure that we are constantly pushing the frontier of defence innovation, so that we have an advantage over our enemies, and it means making sure that we are creating more skilled jobs, more training and more opportunities for people and businesses in our own country.

Unashamedly backing British to reindustrialise the places where defence runs in the blood. That is how we will keep our country safe in today's more dangerous and volatile world. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I take on this role, I feel the considerable weight of responsibility on my shoulders to proudly and robustly defend our country, our people, our values and our allies. I am lucky that in this endeavour I am supported by our exceptional armed forces, some of the smartest brains on the planet, and the extraordinary service of those working around the clock and around the globe to protect us.

I have seen the capabilities this country has. They are considerable. We should have enormous pride in what our country does, let alone what we can do in the future. So this government will build a Britain worth fighting for and a Britain capable of fighting for it. That is our mission and that is what we will do. I commend this statement to the House.
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Mark Francois Portrait Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
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Shadow Minister. >> Shadow Minister. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> On behalf. >> Of the Shadow Defence Team, I'd

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Of the Shadow Defence Team, I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome the new Defence Secretary, Labour's third in three months, to Labour's third in three months, to his place and to thank him for advance sight of this important statement. On a personal note, we have a mutual friend in Labour, Councillor Gareth Barrett, and I know he'd be very proud to see his long time friend standing at the despatch box representing the Ministry of Defence today. It's over four years now since Russia's brutal and illegal full scale invasion of Ukraine.

But as the Ukrainians reminded me when I visited Kyiv in February, the Russo-ukrainian war has actually been raging for 12 years. When Putin's Russia illegally annexed Crimea and parts of the Donbas, which is longer than both the First and Second World wars combined. I am sure I speak for the whole House today in paying tribute to the Ukrainians for their fierce and determined resistance, fighting for values of freedom and democracy, which this House has represented for centuries. So when we say Slava Ukraini, we mean it.

In particular. On that trip, the speaker of the Rada said something I'll never forget. When you go back to London, tell them we know the Russians better than anybody, and if we fall, you're next, my friend. For South Shropshire, who's now joining our shadow defence team, has just returned from Kyiv overnight. And he reports how the Russians cynically suspended missile strikes on the capital whilst the American delegation were present, but resumed them almost immediately after their departure. And tragically, a number of innocent civilians were murdered in Kyiv last night on supporting Ukraine and brave President Zelensky.

There has been absolute solidarity between ourselves and the Labour Party. When I served in the Ministry of Defence following the 2014 invasion, we began training Ukrainian troops on Salisbury Plain via what was then known as Operation Orbital. That continues today via Operation Interflex, which between them had trained over 50,000 Ukrainian troops on British soil. The House would no doubt recall that very powerful footage from February 2022 of columns of Russian tanks being destroyed in 60s in highly coordinated anti-tank ambushes north of Kyiv, carried out by Ukrainian troops.

But with UK manufactured in-law anti-tank weapons. Had it not been for that kit and that training that accompanied it, the Russians would likely be having lunch in Kyiv today. We all want to see a ceasefire in Ukraine, but as the Ukrainians themselves would tell us, not at any price. However, the government's policy is then to participate in a coalition of the willing in order to help maintain a ceasefire. I hope the Secretary of State can confirm that again. However, were we to deploy the British Army into Ukraine, it's very important they be adequately trained and equipped.

The Defence Secretary invited the House just a few moments ago to hold him to account, so taking him exactly at his word, I must press him on some extremely worrying reports first published in The Times on the 3rd of September last week, and amplified in the general defence, I just. On Tuesday. The British Army training is being seriously curtailed in order to provide in-year efficiency savings that cuts in pub English at Treasury behest in the financial year 2000 and 607, the MoD has been given a ridiculous efficiency savings target of over £3 billion, much of it from operations spending such as training and exercise.

And the Army's share of that is reportedly 1.2 billion. So, given the seriousness of this situation, I wish to ask the Defence Secretary three very important questions. Firstly, is it true that training in both the regular and reserves is being materially constricted in order to save this money at Treasury behest? Secondly, what actions is he as Defence Secretary? No doubt in consultation with the chief of the General Staff, taking to push back against these pernicious in-year funding cuts as imposed by the Treasury? What discussions has he had, ironically, with the new Chancellor, who resigned in June as defence Secretary because Labour wouldn't commit to spend 3% of GDP on defence by 2030.

The government cannot keep kicking the can down the road. And thirdly, in which year specifically will Labour now commit to spend 3% of GDP on defence, as the Conservatives are now pledged to do by 2030 at the latest? We will not deter the likes of Vladimir Putin by capping bus fares. So in summary, Madam Deputy Speaker, we are foursquare with the Ukrainians. We support the government in supporting them, but they must support our troops. So what are they doing to train.
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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Ilford North, Labour)
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Defence Secretary? >> Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Can I firstly thank the right hon. Gentleman for the. >> Constructive spirit.

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With which he responded to my statement, and I very much hope that we can maintain that. Across both sides of the House. And I've certainly enjoyed early conversations I've had with the Shadow Secretary of State, too. So we will continue to work in that spirit and maximise and project globally unity wherever we possibly can. He references. I am the third Defence Secretary in recent months for reasons that are evident, and I give him an undertaking to add this to the retention priorities for the workforce, a point I made very firmly to the Prime Minister.

I'm very much in favour of retention in this post. I will just in that note though, however, say place on record my enormous respect and thanks to both of my Labour predecessors, the Chancellor and the Security Minister. I particularly want to pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley North, who did an outstanding job during his time in this office to do some considerable heavy lifting to get the defence investment plan over the line. And not only do I thank him for it, I think the country will thank him for it in the longer term too, and I'm enjoying working with him.

In his post, he mentioned the support for Ukraine and particularly the support we've given over a number of years on training. I should also reflect back to the House and from my visit to Kyiv. What's fascinating about the evolution of this terrible war is that whereas we've spent a considerable amount of time training, Ukrainians increasingly find it's the other way round. We are seeing the rapid evolution of modern warfare, and the Ukrainians are at the forefront of defence innovation, and we are actively learning from our Ukrainian friends their ingenuity, their expertise.

Yes, we've got to provide them with the resources they need to fight and to win. But it's also important we recognise the extraordinary capability they have under the most imaginably, unimaginably difficult circumstances. He asks about the multinational force for Ukraine. And, you know, we hope for the best. We plan for the worst in terms of the continuation of this war. But we are also actively working to prepare for conditions in which a ceasefire has been agreed by Ukraine and with Ukraine.

And and from our perspective for Ukraine, I'm proud of the work we're doing, particularly with our our French allies on the multinational force for Ukraine. I enjoyed visiting nephew in Paris during a visit to meet my French counterpart, Madame Vautrin, earlier this summer, and I'm looking forward to hosting nephew here in the UK later this year. The objective of MF nephew is. In the event that a ceasefire is achieved to increase Ukraine's deterrence against war breaking out again, and that is the focus of the mission there.

He refers to reports in the media about training, and I just want to unpack a few points there. Firstly, we are investing more in training, and it is certainly not true to say that training has ceased. There has absolutely been. There's. And to be fair to the right hon. Gentleman, he didn't make that claim, but I have seen people draw that conclusion from some of the reports. Of course, training continues. There has been some reprioritisation to make sure we're prioritising those activities that will provide most impact at this point in time.

I do acknowledge, though, that one of our responsibilities as a department is to live within our means, and one of the disciplines that I have to bring to the Ministry of Defence, drawing on my experience at the Department of Health and Social Care and the NHS, is to make sure that there is not a culture of routine overspending, to make sure we are improving productivity, to make sure we deliver value for money, and that we recognise that the money we're investing in defence comes at choices and trade offs that apply across government, and also rest ultimately with the taxpayer.

And yes, we've got to make the case for more defence, investment and spending and we will. We'll see that across the House. But what we shouldn't enable in the process is a distraction from making sure we live within our means, that we deliver capability and effect and impact, and we treat every penny of taxpayers money wisely. And and I hear from the opposition benches that they agree with that point. Finally, he tempts me to announce the date at which we will hit 3% spending.

He will know that getting ahead of a Chancellor and a spending review is a breach of the ministerial code, and having resigned from government once already, I have no intention of doing so again today.
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James MacCleary Portrait James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson James MacCleary. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and may I also welcome the Secretary of State to his new role and thank him for advance sight of and thank him for advance sight of his statement. And I say to the new Secretary of State, the Liberal Democrats continue to stand ready to work constructively with the to work constructively with the government in the interests of our national security. And indeed, Ukraine is a great example of where we have that common ground. The Secretary of State is quite right, of course, that Ukraine's security is our security.

And as another winter approaches, Russia will once again seek to weaponize the freezing cold weather to attack Ukraine's energy infrastructure and harm the civilian population. So the additional £100 million for air defence interceptors is therefore a really welcome move. I would like to ask the Secretary of State what discussions he is holding with NATO allies to secure more air defence systems and interceptors for Ukraine before the winter sets in, and is the UK prepared to provide further assistance should the request be made? We also welcome the government's recognition of the need to increase defence investment.

However, the Defence Investment Plan is still not fully funded and given the threats we face, progress on the government's commitment to raise defence spending to 3% of GDP remains slow. In response to the UK supplying technology for deep strike capability, Russia has stated that UK military installations and equipment, both inside Ukraine and beyond its borders, are now considered legitimate targets. That only adds to the urgent need for investment in our national defence. That is why the Liberal Democrats are proposing issuing defence bonds, a plan to raise £20 billion over two years, meeting the urgency of the situation head on.

So will the Secretary of State urge the Chancellor to consider defence bonds, and perhaps he could share his own view with the House on this idea. Finally, we must do more to cut off the funding that fuels Putin's war machine. Supported by Western linked shipping, insurance and financial services, Russian fossil fuels continue to flow into global markets. Will the Secretary of State push within the government for tougher action to crack down on activities facilitating Russian fuel, fossil fuel exports. Exports and work with allies to impose a comprehensive ban on Russian oil, gas and coal.

Ukraine is fighting for its survival and for the security of our entire continent. The UK must continue to stand with it. Yes.
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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Ilford North, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Liberal Democrat Can I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for for his his constructive support and scrutiny constructive support and scrutiny through our work with my German through our work with my German counterpart, Boris Pistorius, and our coalition, we are regularly mobilising more support for Ukraine, both through direct contributions but also through active defence diplomacy. And I'm particularly grateful to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary for the support of his Department in those efforts to.

Every country involved in supporting Ukraine faces the same choices and trade offs that we're debating here at home. And in that spirit, we we approach those conversations, but we also ask people to think about the consequences where Putin to prevail and take from that the incentive to further threaten Russia's neighbours and our NATO allies. And that is why I make the case that supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do morally. But it is also the right thing to do in our national interests and the interests of the collective security of our continent.

He refers to the Defence Investment Plan and raises the issue of defence spending. And I just want to be clear about two things. One is we are already delivering the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the Cold War. That is a significant improvement on the previous position, and we are also ahead of the, you know, in mentions the dip not being fully funded. It is absolutely true to say that where the negotiations around the dip reached was a position where there is a shortfall just shy of £5 billion, which we need to deal with in the immediate term, and the House should take reassurance from the fact about the instincts of this Chancellor and the government that without any need for persuasion from me or my Department whatsoever, this Chancellor has already confirmed he will close that gap at this Budget.

So I'm reassured by that, and that gives me even greater confidence as the Chancellor looks ahead to the spending review. But that doesn't mean we should be complacent about as a as a department and as a team in defence, making the strongest possible case, recognising the trade offs across government. So we will continue to approach the spending review process in that spirit. And he also raises defence financing. It is true to say that defence bonds are borrowing and nonetheless, we continue to work closely with our colleagues at Treasury and with our industry partners to do to look at what more we can do to leverage finance for defence, and to do so in a way that creates jobs, skills, opportunities and reindustrialisation here in Britain.
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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Ilford North, Labour)
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this very serious and important issue, and she will understand that as a matter of policy, I will not comment on policy, I will not comment on intelligence, but I will address the reports that she has raised. One of the great privileges of being in this post in the last seven weeks has been meeting the people and seeing the capability that our special forces have. It is truly remarkable, and my only regret is that we are not able to show, for obvious reasons, the country more publicly of just how exceptional these people and their capabilities are.

It is in that spirit that I find it utterly unthinkable and shameful that anyone who has served this country, in whatever capacity, would think it in any way acceptable to support the Russian state as it wages war in Ukraine. Their fight is our fight. Their front line is the front line for freedom and democracy. And those actions are an affront not only to this country and to this and to our values, but to the values that underpin the uniform that those who serve our armed forces wear.

I know I speak for the entire armed forces community in that, and let me just reassure the House and send a very clear message that we have robust legislation in place to tackle foreign hostile activity. The NSA gives our intelligence agencies and the police the tools they need to detect and disrupt threats. But the National Security Act specifies, under its interpretations, that information includes information about tactics, techniques and procedures, and is applicable to any individual and extends beyond the period in which personnel are employed by the UK armed forces.

Let that be a warning to anyone who has or considers supporting the Russians as they wage war in Ukraine.
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Wes Streeting Portrait Rt Hon Wes Streeting MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Ilford North, Labour)
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Can I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and give him an undertaking to make it give him an undertaking to make it as easy as possible on those three things supporting the nuclear deterrent and building capacity in our armed forces and supporting NATO? Those are those are things I believe very strongly in, and I will make it as easy as possible for him to support this government. But in the spirit of these exchanges, I will absolutely just take at face value the point he makes about the comparison with the Cold War and resist the temptation to get into the starting point that this government arrived with on defence spending and the condition of our armed forces.

I think he's right to draw historical comparisons and to provoke all of us to think more widely about the kind of contact context we're operating in domestically, across Europe and internationally, I don't think, and I've not heard from the official opposition, a suggestion that the government should be making a 4% commitment or a 5% commitment, and certainly no proposals to that effect. But but let this help the public to understand why, at a time of constrained resources for households, for businesses and indeed for government, we are making an active political choice to invest, invest more in our defence.

Because I respectfully say, as someone who has been responsible for hospitals and the NHS, the schools, hospitals, homes, those are important things, but they are valueless. If those things are reduced to rubble. That is the experience of the Ukrainians. That is the kind of threat we are operating amongst, and that is why we must commit and continue to commit to increase defence spending.
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John Slinger Portrait John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
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John Slinger thank you, Madam Speaker. Ukrainians living in my constituency of Rugby contacted me constituency of Rugby contacted me ahead of the statement and not only to inform me of the devastating attacks in the Sumy region attacks in the Sumy region overnight, including on a shopping centre and on trains. But I asked one of these people what they think is missing from the debate here, and if you'll allow me, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to read what this person said, and I quote the constant psychological pressure.

When you live inside it, everything feels incredibly urgent. If drones are flying towards your city, every minute matters. And then you look at the outside world where decisions naturally take weeks or months, and it can feel painfully slow and very far away. Sometimes you feel almost alone in it. There is also the information war. After years of this, people are exhausted. And of course there is anger. Why was this not stopped? Why is there not more protection? Russia tries to use exactly that exhaustion and fear and frustration to deepen mistrust.

At the same time, it pushes another message outside Ukraine that Ukrainians are tired of fighting, that Ukraine cannot win, and that continued support is pointless. But that is not what I hear from the people I know. They are exhausted. Yes, they are frightened and angry, but they do not want to surrender. They want the opposite, the chance to live their normal lives again without Russia deciding whether they can sleep, travel, work, keep warm or see their family. So will my right hon.

Friend, just reiterate once again that this House is united in standing with Ukraine and helping them militarily and diplomatically, economically and for the psychological battle.
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Matthew Pennycook Portrait Rt Hon Matthew Pennycook MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Greenwich and Woolwich, Labour)
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And that concludes this statement. I'll give the front benches a few moments to shuffle benches a few moments to shuffle We now come to the presentation of bills presentation of Bill Secretary Heidi Alexander.

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Let's move. Financing Bill.

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Let's move. Financing Bill. Second Reading what day? tomorrow. Tomorrow. Presentation of Bill Gideon Amos.

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Housing Bill. Second Reading. What day? Friday 27th of November.

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Friday 27th of November. Friday the 27th of November. The clerk will now proceed to read the

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orders of the day. Social housing Bill Lords Second

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Reading. The recent amendments in the name of the official opposition has name of the official opposition has not. Has been selected Minister to move Second Reading. Minister.

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move Second Reading. Minister. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the bill be now read a second time. Good housing is read a second time. Good housing is the foundation of a flourishing life. Decent, safe, secure and affordable homes provide a platform for families to live, grow and build better lives. They make for stronger, healthier and happier communities. Everyone, and I mean everyone, deserves to have one. Yeah, as we all know, far too many families in need across the country are languishing on social housing waiting lists, struggling in the private rented sector or inexpensive temporary accommodation as a result, and driving up rents and the housing benefit bill in the process.

At the same time, the ability and willingness of councils to invest in the building of new social rented homes has been undermined by the steady and significant loss of existing stock through the Right to Buy scheme. It is for these reasons that the government committed, in its manifesto to delivering the biggest increase in social and affordable house building in a generation, to prioritising the building of new social rented homes, to enhancing protections for existing and new, build social housing, and to supporting councils and housing associations to make a greater contribution to affordable housing supply.

In the 26 months we've been in office, we faithfully sought to honour those commitments, making the biggest long term investment in social and affordable housing in recent memory, vigorously prioritising social rented housing, rebuilding the capacity of councils and housing associations to borrow and invest in new and existing homes, reinvigorating council house building and taking initial steps to better protect existing stock. This bill supplements those efforts. It builds on the funding and regulatory certainty that we've already given the sector, and it supports the five step plan we published last summer to deliver a decade of renewal for social and

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affordable housing. Will the. Minister give way on. That point? I will give way.

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I'm very grateful to the Minister, and he starts off very strong by highlighting the real strong by highlighting the real reason why this bill is here. And he's absolutely right that for many families, the only option is social families, the only option is social housing to find that dignity, security and stability. In my own security and stability. In my own community, 25,000 adults are waiting for social housing. So I absolutely welcome the government's ambition for 39 billion over the next ten years for social and affordable housing.

Will the Minister make it clear? He alluded to this in his earlier submissions, that he will make sure that all the resources and flexibility is available for local councils to

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deliver on this pledge. We absolutely do need to give

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We absolutely do need to give local councils that flexibility. My hon. Friend is right. We've already helped councils to build their capacity. We've allowed them to capacity. We've allowed them to keep, as I'll come on to say, 100% of right to buy receipts. We are looking at everything we need to do looking at everything we need to do to move the dial when it comes to housebuilding and build on the steps we've already taken. Madam Deputy Speaker, the bill has three Deputy Speaker, the bill has three core objectives.

First, to protect much needed social housing stock and thereby incentivise the building of more social rented homes. Second, to create a fairer tenancy system with greater protections for tenants who are victims of domestic abuse. Third, to reduce unnecessary bureaucracy and give providers greater regulatory certainty so that they can invest in new social and affordable homes with confidence. Let me provide some further detail on each in turn, starting with measures designed to better protect existing social housing stock and incentivise the building of more social homes.

At the heart of the bill are comprehensive reforms to the right to buy scheme. In speaking to them, I want to emphasise that we are not abolishing the right to buy. I know and respect the fact that there are honourable and right hon. Members who object to that decision in principle, but this government remains firmly of the view that social housing tenants who have lived in and paid rent on their homes for many years, should retain the opportunity to purchase them with a reasonable discount.

We do, however, need to radically reform the right to buy to reduce the significant outflow of stock that has taken place since discounts were drastically increased by the coalition government in 2012. To incentivise councils to build and to attract broader investment into council housing. As hon. Members will know, we have already acted to reduce maximum right to buy cash discounts to increase the cost floor protection period. As I've just said to my hon. Friend, to ensure councils keep 100% of right to buy receipts and to allow them to combine those receipts, developer contributions and grant funding, the Bill delivers the broader set of reforms necessary to put in place a fair and sustainable right to buy scheme for the future, informed by the feedback we received to the public consultation that ran from November 2024 to January 2025, key measures in the bill include increasing the right to buy eligibility requirement from 3 to 10 years, amending percentage discounts to better align with new maximum cash discounts so that long standing tenants benefit from the largest reductions and exempting newly built social homes from sale under the Right to buy for 35 years.

The bill also exempts homes from sale under the right to buy in areas designated as rural. Given that homes in these areas are extremely difficult and expensive to replace in the other place, peers sought to persuade the government to set the criteria for rural designation in regulations, and we've committed to amending the

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bill to enable that. It will give way. On that. Point, the Minister will be

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Point, the Minister will be aware because he he's also introducing clause 12, the the the introducing clause 12, the the the proposal that that that the housing associations can't can't dispose of associations can't can't dispose of stock, which which, for example, is very expensive to achieve EPC C on. very expensive to achieve EPC C on. I mean, in my area we're we're haemorrhaging larger numbers of social homes because of that than through than through. Right to buy. So so will he ensure that actually some protection is given so that rural communities, which he's saying there is a scarcity of properties, their rural communities are protected and they're supported in retaining those important

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properties? Yeah. I think the hon. Gentleman for his point, I'm sure we'll have ongoing discussions about this and other issues. He may wish to hone down his private member's bill, perhaps to to focus in on this among some other issues. What I would say on disposals in general is I do, as I said at Oral Questions on Monday, recognise the strength of feeling regarding this matter in the House. I want to ensure that every opportunity is ensure that every opportunity is taken to retain homes within the social housing sector.

The new disposal notification requirements in the bill, which I'll come on to speak about, will maximise opportunities for social housing providers to buy and retain social homes, but housing associations do remain independent organisations responsible for their own asset management decisions. So we are looking, yes, at what more we can do to protect much needed social housing stock. But there are limits to the extent we can go, I should say. Further to that point, we are also taking steps, and this is just as important to ensure that councils are in a better position to buy any disposals, for example, raising the cap on grant funding for acquisitions.

Madam, I'm just going to make a little bit of progress and I will happily come back to my hon. Friend. Taken together, Madam Deputy Speaker, these measures will fundamentally alter the trajectory of social housing supply. Between April 2012 and March 2024, there were over 124,000 council right to buy sales, with fewer than 48000 homes replaced in the same period under the previous Pre-reform baseline, we could have expected to see a net loss of around another 26,000 council homes between 2026 and 2036, following implementation of this government's right to buy reform package, including the measures contained in the bill, we instead expect to realise a net gain of around 18,000 homes over the same ten year period.

Or, to put it more simply, Madam Deputy Speaker, instead of vainly watching the loss of precious social homes massively outpaced their building, we will, for the first time in decades, be building considerably more than we

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are losing because of this Labour government and this bill, I'm happy to give way. I thank. The Minister for giving way.

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The Minister for giving way. This bill rightly prioritises building new social rented homes, but my own authority, Rushcliffe but my own authority, Rushcliffe Borough Council, transferred all its council housing stock away back its council housing stock away back in 2003 and has built none since. Yet it praises itself repeatedly for being debt free, despite being much poorer asset wise. As a result of that decision back in 2003. So does he agree with me that if this bill is to succeed, we can't treat stock transfer as virtuous, and we've got to get to the point where housing revenue accounts aren't

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treated and talked about as being authorities. Yeah. Well, I there is lots that I

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Well, I there is lots that I agree with in what my hon. Friend has just said. We do want to see councils once again directly delivering homes themselves at scale. We also want councils working in far closer partnership working in far closer partnership with housing associations to increase the number of homes that are built and managed by local authorities. And the points he's made about his local authority will be on the record for people in his area to see.

Madam Deputy Speaker, in addition to the comprehensive reforms to the right to buy that are in the bill, the bill also requires private providers of social housing to notify the relevant local authority and other social housing providers in their area before they sell a social home. To the point the hon. Gentleman just made. Madam Deputy Speaker, there can be good reasons why private registered providers sometimes choose to dispose of social rented homes, and we don't prevent. We don't propose to prevent them from doing so.

But when a social home is to be sold, councils and other social housing providers should have the opportunity to consider whether they are interested in purchasing it. Legislation to provide them with that opportunity will prevent homes being lost to the private market when they do not need to be.

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On that point. Honourable High Peak AM. 27 years ago, my local authority in London Borough of Bexley, sold all its council housing stock to orbit in Alan Mak and lack now orbit in Alan Mak and lack now routinely sell those homes at auction, which were council homes owned by my local authority. So will the Minister commit to looking further as we go forward? Because my council will have no intention of rebuying those homes. How we can ensure those homes remain social

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housing going forward? Yeah. I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and it is disappointing question, and it is disappointing to hear that his local authority are not interested in any way in trying to bring those back, those trying to bring those back, those homes back under local authority control. As I've said, there are limits to what we can do. Housing limits to what we can do. Housing associations remain independent organisations. Hon. Members will, I'm sure, be aware of the risks I'm sure, be aware of the risks around reclassification in terms of steps the government might take in this area, but we are exploring what more might be done to to protect much needed social housing stock.

And as I've said, just as importantly for those councils that do want to buy, and there are plenty of them and other providers, what more we can do to ensure they are in a position to do so? Madam Deputy Speaker on the issue of disposals, having listened carefully to the debate in the other place in respect of this matter, we have committed to bringing forward an amendment to extend the window of time that must pass between notification and the sale of a property, giving councils and other providers more time to consider whether homes can be purchased and retained within the social housing sector.

As we want to see. I will give way and then

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I'm going to make some progress because a lot. Of people on on that point. Would he would he also consider extending the option to consult community groups, community community groups, community community land trusts, housing co-ops, who could take on these properties rather than them leaking properties rather than them leaking out into the to the private sector in areas like mine, they leak into the private sector. They'll most

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likely become second homes. Well, indeed. And that's precisely why, through the notification window, we want to give local authorities, other providers, the maximum opportunity to bring those homes back under their control. And being able, as I said, because it's just as important that they are able to do so in practice. There are other issues affecting local authorities. My hon. Friends, a number of them in orals at the start of the week spoke about pressures on. All of these things are bearing down on councils ability to do.

But we are looking at reforms in this area, not least, as I said, the cap on acquisitions. The Minister give way. I am going to now make a bit of progress. I know there's a lot of people that want to speak, but I will come back to my hon. Friend a bit later in my remarks. I want to turn now, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the bill's second core objective, namely, increasing protections for tenants who are victims of domestic abuse. No one should be forced to remain in an unsafe situation because they fear becoming homeless.

And yet last year, around 15000 households in England had to find a new social home as a result of domestic abuse. Existing legislation provides scant protection for social housing tenants who are victims of domestic abuse and wish to remain in their current home without their abuser. Landlords can evict perpetrators, but only in cases where the victim has already left. This means that all too often, victims are forced to choose between staying in danger or losing their home. This is an utterly unacceptable state of affairs, and through this bill, we will end it as part of our department's ongoing efforts to deliver on this government's unprecedented commitment to halve violence against women and girls.



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In a decade, when I will give way. Thank him for. Giving way. He's been very generous with his time. I strongly support the provisions in this bill to support victims of violence, which far too often, as he's mentioned, have to be evicted or leave while the while the perpetrator stays with the tenancy. Another issue which is really preventing those victims from gaining a tenancy or moving out of temporary accommodation into settled accommodation is rent arrears, where requirements which prevent a tenancy for those with rent arrears don't take into account if someone's been the victim of domestic violence.

I know the department are looking at consulting and guidance around this. Could this bill be a key mechanism

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country? Hear, hear. I thank my hon. Friend for that question. I know there is interest question. I know there is interest in this chamber in regards to this issue. There's certainly interest in the other place about it. I can in the other place about it. I can assure him we appreciate fully that survivors of domestic abuse with debt can face barriers when applying for social housing. We continue to believe that guidance is the best route to resolving this issue. But we've been clear in the issue.

But we've been clear in the other place, and I'm happy to reiterate it once again here today, that if that guidance proves insufficient, we do have the option of making regulations to amend the relevant legislation, and I'm happy.

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I'm happy to give way to my hon. Friend. I thank the hon. Gentleman, and it is very good to hear him commit it is very good to hear him commit to checking whether guidance is enough. Many of us who have tried to rehouse victims of domestic abuse, even after great laws are written into legislation here in this place, will know that getting them the priority need that is in the Domestic Abuse Act still takes the Domestic Abuse Act still takes a huge amount of advocacy.

So can I. I really welcome the commitment that if it doesn't work in just guidance, that we will look at legislation to do this and offer to work with his Department to to ensure that we are making sure that we are assessing whether it works,

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not from Whitehall, but by the actual front line. Can I thank My friend for that intervention,

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My friend for that intervention, and she knows that I have the utmost respect for her and all that she has done to make women and she has done to make women and girls safe. In response to both my hon. Friend's points. As I said, the government has committed in its National Plan to End Homelessness to address this issue. There is consensus on that point. I am more consensus on that point. I am more than happy to make clear that if that guidance is not effective, does not have the intended effects that we all want to see, we will not hesitate to pursue changes through regulations.

Shares my commitment on that point. I am going to give way. The Madam Deputy Speaker is glaring at me as to the time I'm taking, and I know there is many members. I will try and come back to colleagues as I make some progress through my remarks. Madam Deputy Speaker to ensure victims of domestic abuse can access safe and secure housing, the bill provides for stronger legal mechanisms to remove a perpetrator from a social housing tenancy, and enable victims to stay in their home, or move to alternative accommodation as a sole tenant.

In response to constructive debate on the subject in the other place, we intend to bolster the discretionary possession grounds so that the existence of a relevant protective order can provide the basis for proceedings, rather than requiring evidence that the order has already been breached. The new powers will apply where the victim is personally connected to the perpetrator tenant, and is a current or former occupant of the property. By aligning the approach with the Domestic Abuse Act 2021, the bill will cover a broader range of relationships, including partners, former partners and family members.

And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker to the bill's third core objective, namely, reducing unnecessary bureaucracy and providing regulatory clarity so that providers can invest in new social and affordable homes with confidence. The Housing and Planning Act 2016, the Bill Committee, incidentally, of which I happen to serve on as a young PPS to then Shadow Housing Secretary, now Chancellor of the Exchequer. The right hon. Member for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough contains a series of social housing provisions which have never been brought into force.

The Bill will repeal the following measures to clarify the statute book and provide the sector with certainty that they will never be implemented. First, provisions that would have required councils to charge higher rents to higher income social tenants, also known as mandatory Pay to stay. This government has no intention of implementing this policy, which could incentivise tenants to reduce work hours to avoid higher rent, and so we are removing it from the statute book. Second, provisions that would have required councils to grant fixed term tenancies of between 2 and 10 years, generally to all new tenants.

This government will continue to encourage landlords to make the best and most effective use of their homes to meet housing need, but we have no intention of prohibiting lifetime secure tenancies, which provide much needed security for many households and support social mobility. And so we're removing this policy from the statute book. Third, provisions that would have required councils to sell off higher value vacant housing stock and make annual payments in respect of expected sales to the Treasury. This government has no intention of implementing this policy and wants to see these assets remain for councils to manage and use as they see fit.

And so we are removing it from the statute book, as well as repealing provisions from the 2016 act. The bill reforms the outdated housing consents regime, which can be time consuming and resource intensive for councils and often leads to delays in delivering new social and affordable housing. The Bill will streamline the consents process to empower councils and remove bureaucratic impediments that restrict council flexibility in managing their housing stock, while retaining checks and protections where appropriate. Did my hon. Friend want to intervene or have I caught him unprepared? I was going to give him a chance there.

To conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker. After years of marginalisation, this government has emphatically and unashamedly asserted the necessity and value of social rented homes. They are a crucial national asset to be proud of, to invest in, to protect and to maintain. This bill will protect precious social homes for future generations. It will incentivise the building of many more of them. It will give social housing providers the confidence they need to invest in new social and affordable homes. And it will support social tenants who are the

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victims and survivors of domestic abuse. Minister. Give way. I will give way. There's a part of the bill that

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There's a part of the bill that he hasn't referred to, which is part two in terms of a review of part two in terms of a review of shared ownership. Shared ownership is a ten year that is provides a great opportunity into home great opportunity into home ownership for for many people. But yet, far too many people find themselves indebted and in a really themselves indebted and in a really difficult position because of the service charges that are imposed upon them and the quality of shared ownership.

I'm particularly interested in the different models of shared ownership that can come forward. I'm interested to know what this review will be covering, and how the outcomes of the review

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might be reflected in any future investment in genuinely affordable homes going forward. I thank my hon. Friend for her

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I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for her passionate advocacy on behalf of her constituents and others around the country on housing issues, country on housing issues, generally on shared ownership. I know the pressures that shared owners face. I get them in my own owners face. I get them in my own constituency postbag, on a daily basis. We have already taken positive steps to improve the shared ownership model, including shared ownership model, including introducing new expectations for landlords who bid for shared ownership, grant funding to improve fairness and transparency, and we are supporting shared owners affected by specific challenges such as building safety issues.

Clause 13, as hon. Members might be aware, was added to the Bill in the other place does require a review of the shared ownership model to be carried out within 12 months of the bill's passing. Madam Deputy Speaker, we do not believe a review is necessary, as we are already actively considering specific issues that have been raised in debates, including data and long term affordability for customers. And we will, of course, consider what more we can do to act on these issues within our wider programme to improve shared ownership.

I just I'm going to make some progress, I'm afraid. I am immensely grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, to my noble friend Baroness Taylor of Stevenage, for the customary skill with which she oversaw the passage of the bill through the other place, and for the extensive engagement she undertook with peers throughout initial Lords stages. A number of important issues were raised during the debates that took place in the other place, and as a result, my Department is undertaking rapid policy to work to determine whether there is a case for strengthening the bill further in a series of areas, for example, in response to concerns raised by my hon.

Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood and the noble Lord best, we are giving serious consideration to what more might be done to provide greater security of tenure for social tenants who are fleeing violence, including serious youth violence. We are also considering what more can be done to bolster public control of social housing, to ensure that social housing serves and supports those who need it most. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will not give way. I'm just about to conclude. Apologies to my hon.

Friend. I look forward to engaging with hon. Members on both sides of the chamber. Madam Deputy Speaker, in relation to these and other matters as we look to improve the Bill further, and I commend it to the House today.
14:33
Gareth Bacon Portrait Gareth Bacon MP (Orpington, Conservative)
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The question is that the bill be now read a second time. I call Shadow Minister Gareth Bacon. >> Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the amendment tabled in my name and the amendment tabled in my name and the names of my hon. Friends, as listed in the Order Paper. Madam Deputy Speaker, we come to the House, as we have done many times, to find the government still failing to build more homes and still failing to support home ownership.

This bill is no different. Indeed, it is a par excellence because for a bill supposedly concerned with housing, it does nothing to build new homes. The borough has nothing to support the aspiration of home ownership. In fact, it goes out of its way to diminish it. The bill doesn't even free up any social homes for the 1.34 million people on the waiting list. It is a dud bill and an ideological red herring. Most egregiously, however, the government have taken a much needed reform.

That is the need for a new and effective framework to enable landlords to take possession action against perpetrators of domestic abuse and surround it with unnecessary, damaging and punitive reforms to right to buy. Now, we agree with the government that it is vital that anyone stuck in an abusive household receives the urgent care, support and access to legal pathways they need. So His Majesty's opposition supports this aspect of the Bill. So it is a shame to find the government wedging it uncomfortably alongside the ideological and anti-aspiration measures that make up the majority of this counterproductive bill.

Madam Deputy Speaker, let us come.

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I'll give way. I just as somebody who I would

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I just as somebody who I would wager has, has rehoused more victims of domestic abuse than almost anybody in this House. I can just I just want to say, on behalf of victims of domestic abuse, building more council housing and making sure more council housing is making sure more council housing is in the system is literally the thing that almost every victim in thing that almost every victim in the country would ask us to do. And so with that ideology, I would like to commend the ideology of the bill and suggest that maybe wedging it together there the same issue.



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I thank the honourable. Sorry,

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I thank the honourable. Sorry, hon. Lady for her comments. I'm sorry I missed that. I missed that sorry I missed that. I missed that comment from a sedentary position. This bill doesn't contribute to building a single extra social home. building a single extra social home. I agree that people who are victims of domestic abuse. I said that in my remarks should be rehoused. We my remarks should be rehoused. We don't agree, however, that this bill is the way to do it. Madam Deputy Speaker, let us come to the main thrust of the government's policy, the effective end of right to buy as we know it.

In 1980, Margaret Thatcher's government offered millions of people a hand up onto the property ladder by extending the opportunity to own property to hard working, aspirational people living in social housing. Ever since. Ever since I made some progress, ever since, and right up to the present day, Labour MPs have called for the restrictions on the scheme. They have essentially called for an end to the opportunity to exercise the right to own one's own home for around 5 million households, when owning one's own home can bring such pride, such a sense of community can offer security and safety.

One might wonder why on earth anyone would seek to lock millions of social housing tenants out from doing so well, aside from ideology, which is, of course a major part of the problem for those opposite, the benches opposite seek to do this because they have misdiagnosed the problem in the government's mind. It is somehow acceptable to lay the blame at Right to Buy door as 1.34 million children, families, the elderly, the disabled and others wait for a social home every year whilst every year approximately 33,000 new social tenancies funded by British taxpayers are going to households where the lead tenant is not a British national, I will give away that point.



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I thank the hon. Member for giving way. I just wanted to speak giving way. I just wanted to speak as the granddaughter of Jamaican immigrants who came to this country and had a council house and bought and had a council house and bought that council house and profited from Right to Buy that the conversation we had around our dinner table was, isn't Right to dinner table was, isn't Right to Buy great? The problem is they're not rebuilding the houses. The idea of changing this is so that we stop of changing this is so that we stop the leakage out of the system.

We cannot continue to pour more into the top whilst it comes out the bottom. So I hope we can agree on the point that building more social homes is everyone's objective, but to keep them in the system is also going to help alleviate the pressure on social housing here.

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I agree with the hon. Lady that building more social homes is part of the answer, but I will address the central point of her question a the central point of her question a bit. A bit later in my speech. Right to Buy is not the reason for Right to Buy is not the reason for diminishing available social housing, nor the reason for our current shortage of social housing. current shortage of social housing. Indeed, as my as my noble friend or Jameson pointed out in the other place, the government's own impact place, the government's own impact assessment shows that in 2627, the Pre-november 2024 baseline was 8050 right to buy sales, leading to 5450 replacement homes.

The document goes on to show that if this bill were to pass and the legacy impacts wind down in the period 2031 to 2035, then annual right to buy sales would fall to around 1100 a year, with around 1450 replacement homes. This means that by their own analysis and admission, the government would oversee a housing system where there would be 4000 fewer new social homes funded every year. The government's data isn't the give way. Thank the honourable.

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Member for giving way. Just a statistic. While we're talking about statistics, between talking about statistics, between April 2012 and March 2024, over 124,000 right to buy sales fewer 124,000 right to buy sales fewer than 48,000 built to replace it. Which party was in charge during

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that period of time? Yes. The point that I'm making, as my hon. Friend said, from a sedentary position behind me, is sedentary position behind me, is there's going to be even fewer under this bill. This is not the answer to the problem that he is addressing. The government's own data isn't the only data available that disproves the justification for restricting right to buy. The government have argued that this bill will mean around 3000 additional homes are retained a year, but research conducted by the House of Lords library shows that only a net 3% of social homes become available each year to new tenancies.

Now, this means that around 90 additional homes will be available for a new tenant every year, 90 instead of 5000. Yeah, and the very premise itself that Right to Buy is taking homes away is also a fallacy. The only people who qualify for right to buy are long term tenants, and government data has shown that 78% of new lettings remain lifetime tenancies. This means that in three quarters of cases, we are looking at social homes that are unlikely to ever be available to a prospective tenant when they need it.

Madam Deputy Speaker, all of this clearly demonstrates that the right to buy is not the issue. It is part of the solution. Yet it is. Not only is not the only avenue available to the government that they could take to support those on the waiting list, and to get more people into the housing they need. I hope, Madam Deputy Speaker, you won't mind if I offer two key areas in which progress could be made. First and foremost, of course, is housebuilding. The government have put forward clear and definite promises to voters in 2024.

We were told that by the end of this parliament, the government will have built 1.5 million homes, including the biggest increase in social and affordable house building in a generation. The new Prime Minister, a self proclaimed opponent of 1980s policies, has similarly committed to a social housing revolution, albeit without a defined target or an idea of what this looks like. But now, halfway through this Parliament and the slog of the Planning and Infrastructure Act, the multiple updates to the National Planning Policy Framework and the publication of this bill, we are left without a clear route to building more homes and projections from the government themselves, showing that they have managed to build just 26% of their target in nearly 50% of the time.

And this bill does nothing to prioritise building. It will not add a single social home to the housing stock. I'll give way there in a minute.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I do think a good way. Is it not slightly misleading, however, not slightly misleading, however, to suggest that the delivery rate for those homes that pledge in the manifesto is going to be constant throughout the term of this throughout the term of this government? In fact, we are going to do the enabling work in terms of legislation, and we are going to see more of those homes built towards the end. And is it not also right and good that we have a target which stretches us, and I

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target which stretches us, and I would hope the opposition would join us in helping us deliver that target? Yes. The opposition would be very happy if the government hit that target, but the point is they are not going to. Madam Deputy Speaker, the target wasn't nuanced like that in the manifesto, nor was it nuanced. Straight after the election, we were told that 1.5 million homes will be built by the end of this parliament, and there is no chance that they are going to hit that target.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will give way.

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Thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Does he recognise that under the current right to buy under the current right to buy rules, only 20 to 25% of the receipt goes back to the local council and under our government's council and under our government's proposals, it will be 100%, which will make it much easier to build those homes. And in the West Midlands, Richard Parker, the West Midlands, Richard Parker, the West Midlands mayor, has already delivered nearly 2000 new homes and

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on target to to deliver 5000. So would you agree that it is possible to deliver contrary. Madam Deputy Speaker, it was the last conservative government that introduced 100% receipts going to councils to rebuild the homes that have gone. That was introduced in 2023. And although the members opposite like to pretend that history only began in 2010, I would point out to them that successive governments since the 1980s could have changed that and didn't. And it was the last conservative government that did.

I'll give way.

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I thank the shadow planning Minister for giving way on housing Minister for giving way on housing numbers. There's no reform MP present this afternoon, but reform led Rochford District Council have just published their regulation 19 just published their regulation 19 Local Plan during the May elections. They made a great thing about defending the Green belt, and in defending the Green belt, and in the intervening period they've been telling lots of local campaign groups or intimating to them that when the plan came out, they'd be all right.

And yet we now find that nearly every single one of those green belt sites has been recommended for development. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that if they didn't really mean to defend the green belt, which they clearly don't, they should never have said it.

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Well, I share my right hon. Friend's shock that no reform MP is Friend's shock that no reform MP is present in the chamber today. I'm similarly totally, totally taken aback that they would say one thing and then do another. Of course, they shouldn't have said that if they shouldn't have said that if they didn't mean to do it. Very, very well put by my right hon. very well put by my right hon. Friend. Madam Deputy Speaker, this government does nothing to prioritise building.

It will not add a single social home to the housing stock. What this bill represents is a government seeking to heal a problem before they have properly diagnosed it, offering a solution to something that already has an answer. If the government were serious about reforming Right to Buy and building more homes at the same time, perhaps they would look at how proper management and effective reinvestment of receipts can lead to an increase in housing supply, especially on brownfield sites. As my colleagues in the other place noted, it is better for everyone and for the economy that we make two homes out of one through efficient, productive and successful management of right to buy receipts.

We can both sell a family home and support a family onto the waiting list with another one. As homelessness peaks at record levels and the number of children in temporary accommodation reached a dizzying summit of 178,000. It beggars belief that the government are not looking at this more closely. However, I do recognise that house building is not an overnight fix. It takes time and for many families on the waiting list, that is something they simply do not have. I will give way in a moment.

We must therefore consider how best to free up existing stock to support those

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most in need. I'll give way. I thank the Shadow Minister for giving way. He's talking very giving way. He's talking very eloquent about eloquently about his view on social housing. But in 2010, the then coalition government cut the then coalition government cut the affordable housing Budget by 60%. Five years later, there was a

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60%. Five years later, there was a 97% fall in the house building of social rent homes. Would you like record? Yes.

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Yes. I will. I will listen to what the hon. Gentleman says. But of course, one of the things that we don't get from the opposition benches is any commentary at all about the state of the economy. The economy in 2010, after 13 years of their party being in power, it is the case. It is the case that the public finances had to be right sized. The country was heading towards bankruptcy and whilst they are happy to disown their own record and criticise everybody that follows, perhaps it would be slightly more honest if they acknowledged that when they

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prefaced their arguments. I will give way to my friend. My hon. Friend will be aware that the Mayor of London has been that the Mayor of London has been in power for over ten years now, and London's housing record and housing starts has fallen through the floor. There are over 300,000 the floor. There are over 300,000 Londoners estimated to be on housing waiting lists. The majority of those are in Labour boroughs. of those are in Labour boroughs. Does he therefore find the rhetoric of today somewhat confusing, given this, government have cut Sadiq this, government have cut Sadiq Khan's housing target by 22%, and even still, he continues to miss that affordable housing target.



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My hon. Friend knows of what he speaks. The mayor of London's record on housing is, of course, record on housing is, of course, execrable. It is totally mystifying that a time when London's population is the highest it has population is the highest it has ever been, and housing need is the highest it has ever been. The government has simultaneously reduced the housing target for reduced the housing target for London, whilst massively ramping up the target in outer London, where most of the greenbelt is.

And I most of the greenbelt is. And I would suggest to my hon. Friend that that tells you everything you need to know about their intentions, both with regards to housing and also with regards to the greenbelt. Madam Deputy Speaker for the opposition, two answers seem too obvious to miss, and yet the government wilfully choose to ignore this part of the puzzle. The first answer is efficiency of stock management. Many councils and housing associations are well run and proactive organisations, but too many remain plagued by poor stock utilisation, improper management and under occupation.

A proper understanding of national stock will go some way towards creating a fairer and more efficient system, in contrast to the failures we witnessed now, for example, up to date figures from English Housing Survey suggest that around 186,000 social housing households have incomes above £50,000, while approximately 389,000 households are under occupying social housing. This is clearly an inefficiency not only worth fixing, but one that would not be beyond the realms of possibility for many suppliers and managers to fix. Yet it does not feature in this bill, and the government looks again at the broadness of the issue ahead of them and answers with a narrow and ideological legislative response.

On to the second of the answers. For too many struggling families, for too many families, it is understandable that they should be frustrated to find foreign nationals in homes paid for by the British taxpayer. To be clear, we're not talking about just anyone, of course, because after all, it was only until recently that the British taxpayers were funding the first lady of Sierra Leone's central London pad, or rather a British social housing flat. And there are other egregious cases. More precisely, another 127,000 cases, as official figures show that 72% of those who identify as Somali in England Wales live in

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social housing. I'll give way. I thank the hon. Member for giving way, and I just wanted to giving way, and I just wanted to clarify on this point. Of people born in other countries living here, born somewhere else, does not mean born somewhere else, does not mean not a British citizen born somewhere else does not mean that you don't. You're not in work and born. Or being in social housing doesn't mean you're not being in work. It also doesn't mean your children are not born in this children are not born in this country.

So it is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that if someone becomes a British citizen after moving to this country, that they should have a different tier of support in the system, even if they have paid into it?

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No, no, I am not. No. If the hon. Lady will listen to the remainder of my speech, then then she'll hear what I've got to say. It is understandable, Madam Deputy Speaker there is more and more people watch, more and more of their salary slip away from their their salary slip away from their pockets into the hands of the taxman. They begin to ask why they bother and to question the fairness of the system. Because if the government aren't going to build enough social homes, then they could follow our example as laid out in our alternative King's out in our alternative King's speech, and end all new social housing tenancies for all foreign nationals, as well as current tenancies for couples where neither person is a UK, Irish or EU citizen and free up those homes for British families.

To be clear of the scale of what we are talking about, this would add 228,144 homes to the social housing sector, a figure which represents more homes than the government built in its entirety in 2024 2025. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also turn to the problems that could be fixed around shared ownership, an issue raised by the hon. Lady who's no longer in her place. This is an issue that I know many. I know my noble friends in the outer place worked the other place, worked hard and successfully to bring to the attention of the government and see added to this bill for far too long and for far too many people, what should be their first and their proudest step onto the housing ladder instead becomes a logistical, legal and financial nightmare.

I'm proud of the opposition's work in the House of Lords to force the government to finally realise what a national issue this has become, and so therefore obtain a welcome commitment from the government to review shared ownership practices. And I call on the Minister to reiterate this promise, promise and not to seek to remove any such commitment or obligation from the bill when it goes to committee. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is clear that this bill fails the British people by effectively destroying right to buy.

It does nothing to increase available social housing stock. It merely keeps people trapped in the system and not in control of their own lives. It fails to provide more homes. It fails to support aspirations of home ownership, and it fails to free up existing stock. Most crucially, however, it undermines the very essence of what makes very successful and housing system in such a system. People are supportive housing when they need it and support it to own housing when they aspire to it.

But as in the case of this bill, this government and indeed the absent Secretary of State, for reasons I think we all probably understand, it is clear that there is not just a failure, but a refusal to create such a system. This is why the opposition has tabled a reasoned amendment at Second Reading of this bill. We believe this bill is so lacking in ambition, so ideological in its motivation, and so punitive in its measures, that it should not proceed beyond this stage or get anywhere near the statute book.

Now, I do say this with great sorrow for the helpless victims of domestic abuse and violence who deserve everything this bill promises on that front. It is a shame that the government have wedded such necessary support to such planetary legislation. I hope the Secretary of State will reassure the House that if this bill makes it to committee and beyond, it will be amended to make it fit for purpose for those in need of housing, in need of escape from abuse and those in need of shelter.



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And with an immediate four minute time limit for the backbench

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minute time limit for the backbench contributions. Nesil Caliskan. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Safe and secure Deputy Speaker. Safe and secure housing is the foundation of a good life, and the availability of social and affordable housing plays an important part in the provision of housing in this country for what should be a mixed housing picture.
14:53
Nesil Caliskan Portrait Nesil Caliskan MP (Barking, Labour)
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should be a mixed housing picture. And I'd like to begin by talking about the right to buy, because between 2012 and 2024, 124,000 right to buy sales took place with fewer than 5000 replacing them in the same period. The maths alone demonstrates what's happening to social housing. Therefore, I particularly welcome the government's commitment to reforming right to buy, including exempting newly built affordable and social housing from the sales under the Right to Buy scheme for 35 years.

I also very much welcome 100% of the right to buy receipts being left to local authorities. As an ex-council leader, I know the frustration. I felt that we couldn't use those monies, ploughing them back into affordable homes. I know that councils will now be able to combine that money with developer contributions and grant funding. That will mean that the councils that are committed to affordable and social housing can build more. Happy to build.

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A lady for giving way and it's good to see her in the chamber. She mentioned her frustration when she mentioned her frustration when she was a council leader at the fact that she wasn't able to use 100% of right to buy receipts, seeing as right to buy receipts, seeing as she was leader of her authority and the last government, last conservative government gave her

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the power to. Why didn't she. There are a number of reasons why we were hindered from delivering affordable homes. It delivering affordable homes. It didn't go as far as the proposals that the government is setting out today, but I have to gently say a number of the other reasons included record interest rates, which completely decimated the HRA accounts for councils up and down the country. Madam Deputy Speaker, in my constituency of Barking, rising rents and bills take a bigger piece of the housing spending each month.

For my constituents, that is the result of a housing crisis in this country that has progressed progressively, got worse. And that's because building simply is not keeping up with demand. The case of my constituents every week that I speak to tell me that they experience the housing crisis, which leaves them with the anxiety that they way they may be left without a roof over their head any moment. And that's with a local authority that is building at a record rate.

I'd also like to speak to the new powers that support domestic violence victims, because I also, like many members in this place, speak to constituents who tell me their fear of being left homeless. Should they speak out and leave their secure home. I very much welcome the changes in this bill, because it means that women and children can sleep safer at

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that point. I'm happy to give way. I one of the issues that we

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I one of the issues that we discussed at my constituency Women's Safety Summit back in January was the issue around about January was the issue around about gender debt and economic abuse, and particularly how it affects rent particularly how it affects rent arrears. As a result of that, North Lanarkshire Council, Aberlour Children's Charity, the sector and Children's Charity, the sector and registered social landlords in North Lanarkshire are adopting a authority wide approach. Common approach to being able to support women.

Would you agree that this. This would be an excellent example for the Minister to take forward of what is. What is a voluntary action?

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Thank you very much, and I thank my hon. Friend. And there are excellent examples up and down the country of local authorities doing country of local authorities doing very, very good work and with the backing of a Labour government, I think we can see a real progress think we can see a real progress from supporting women who are the victims of domestic violence and their children. Madam Speaker, I'd their children. Madam Speaker, I'd also like to speak to part two of the bill that would require the Secretary of State to conduct and Secretary of State to conduct and publish a review of the operation and effectiveness of shared ownership.

My constituency has a significant number of shared ownership properties, and I speak to constituents in Barking who tell me what was a move that was full of hope now quickly turning into a nightmare. I speak to many constituents who talk about the increase in their charges, in some cases from 2000 now paying £4,000 for three bedroom property. In some cases, they're paying up to £6,000 in charges. Simply put, a shared ownership property that is categorised as affordable has become unaffordable for many of my constituents, and so I welcome the commitment from the government to review this, to ensure that affordable means affordable and in cases where charges mean they don't become affordable, my constituents should not feel like they are trapped in those properties.

Madam Deputy Speaker, housing and the provision of decent homes with social housing and affordable housing. Being part of that mission was the reason why I ever ran for public office. I'm delighted to support the government's bill. We need to build more social and affordable homes. We need to protect them, and we need to invest in them so that they are fit for the future. And so I welcome this bill, and I look forward to it being rolled out. So my constituents in Barking can benefit.

Thank you.
14:59
Gideon Amos Portrait Gideon Amos MP (Taunton and Wellington, Liberal Democrat)
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The Liberal. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker and I draw the attention to my register of interests. My experience as a interests. My experience as a social landlord. Liberal Democrats have long called for a major programme of social housing 150 000 per year. And so there are elements of this bill that we on these benches really welcome, and we will support the Bill today, extending the qualifying period to ten years and cutting discounts to slow the loss of social homes that we've been hearing about protecting a newly built social home from sale for 35 years should give councils more confidence to build again, as will the improved right of first refusal and the protections for tenants fleeing domestic abuse are welcome and overdue, and we support them.

So there are important steps in the right direction, but it's the bill as a whole is nowhere near the scale of what is needed. Right to buy on its own. As other members have pointed out, was not the biggest issue on its own. It was a complete failure to replace home for home in Taunton and Wellington and rest of the country. Thanks to the Conservatives, there are thousands fewer council homes than there used to be. All while the need for social housing has grown and grown.

There are 4 million fewer council houses in this country than there were in 1980. And even taking into account replacements and social housing, and that the number of social homes in this country has dropped by 1.5

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million homes. Can I give way, John? Japanese. Give way. And so far, the

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Give way. And so far, the majority of what he said I agree with. There may be some that I don't agree with later, so we'll don't agree with later, so we'll wait and see. However, would he reflect that actually the impact of councils losing their council house stock has been. They've had to stock has been. They've had to spend more and more money on temporary accommodation. So it's actually a zero net sum for local councils. And also the impact councils. And also the impact that's had on families and young people has been particularly difficult.

Including in my

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constituency. Harlow. Madam Speaker. The hon. Member for I forget where he doesn't mention it very where he doesn't mention it very often. Maybe Harlow is right, and I will be coming on to exactly the will be coming on to exactly the point of temporary accommodation. The Resolution Foundation found that only one home is replaced for every five sold. That's a direct failure of governments of all persuasions to build enough social housing. The Conservatives reversed their policy of allowing councils to spend 100% of receipts soon after they introduced it, and in 2004, in comparison, a Labour government required three quarters of receipts to be sent straight to the Treasury.

So we had homes sold at around half their value and what money there was from receipts went elsewhere, not into building new social homes and building rates plummeted. The new Prime Minister I'm glad to see talks a good game on devolution, but even that under this bill, councils will remain unable to stop the loss of council homes from right to buy. Liberal Democrats would give councils that power to end right to buy in their areas. If that is right for them and their community.

And the government should trust councils to understand their community and their own housing markets. And when it comes to conservatives who seem to be chasing ideological bedfellows in a Reform Party, apparently the priority isn't building houses, it's finding a minority to blame for the problem, a group to alienate as the other. When we should be focusing on building for the whole of the UK and everyone who lives here, their amendment, their amendment banning people not fully British citizens from social housing overlooks the fact that people subject to immigration control are already ineligible for social housing.

That is the law. But they want to go further. The nurse on the ward in Musgrove Park Hospital in my constituency not welcome under a conservative amendment, not allowed to have a social home or a council house. The care worker who looked after people in the pandemic not welcome. Under this conservative amendment, they will have nowhere to live when it comes to council and social housing under a conservative government. Ironic for a party that produced two prime Ministers born outside Britain, I don't.

As a member of Parliament for Wellington, I don't know whether I should inform his Grace, the Duke of Wellington, that the first Duke of Wellington wouldn't fully be a British citizen under the Conservatives amendment. But on the Order Paper today, because he was born outside of Britain. Rubbish not British. The hon. Gentleman from the centre of musician says total rubbish. I suggest he reads his amendment,

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which refers to reserving social housing for British citizens. In Wellington. The British, I know the Duke of

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The British, I know the Duke of Wellington was not born in Britain. The hon. Gentleman needs to have a look at his his, his his history, look at his his, his his history, attempts to come. The fact is, regardless of the history of the regardless of the history of the Duke of Wellington attempts to pump up divisive culture wars, claptrap up divisive culture wars, claptrap in. This bill doesn't deserve our attention. Rather than pointing the finger of blame at minorities, we should be talking about how to build more social homes.

And that's exactly what I shall go on to do. Madam Deputy Speaker. The failure to replace social homes means that more and more people are in temporary accommodation, amongst other factors. There are 132,000 households in temporary accommodation. Councils spent £2.8 billion on it last year and the scourge of poor quality temporary accommodation exists for far too many children. That's why we need a big public housing programme to match the scale of the challenge, if nothing else, because it's incumbent on us all in this House across party, to end the tragic loss of 104 children's lives in the last five years, highlighted by the Shared Health Foundation, for whom temporary accommodation was found to be a contributory factor to

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their death by the coroner. Well, of course. I want to thank my hon. Friend for Taunton for giving way. I've for Taunton for giving way. I've got almost 180 families in Woking in temporary accommodation at the moment. It is tragic for them. moment. It is tragic for them. There is 20 of them located outside the borough. There's one friend agree with me that we need to agree with me that we need to ensure that councils can locate people in temporary accommodation locally, so it doesn't devastate

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locally, so it doesn't devastate their lives as much as it does at the moment. I'm a friend of Woking is entirely right, and people should be able to stay in their communities, which is why we need

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local affordable housing and social housing at scale to deal with that issue. Thank you. I thank the

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Thank you. I thank the honourable. Gentleman giving way. Does he agree with me that the Tory idea of capping the local housing allowance will mean that families allowance will mean that families that can't afford to stay in their area will have to move out of the area, tear their children out of

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area, tear their children out of school and turn their lives upside down. Yeah. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the local housing right that the local housing allowance and the huge effect it has on on local families and housing markets, and it needs to be uprated. I must return to my speech on Madam Deputy Speaker will start giving me looks. My my colleague, amongst other things, we must free up councils to build. So my Lib Dem colleagues on Somerset Council will build 600 council houses they've already building.

They're already building council houses in parts of the county. For the first time in a generation. It has sites for another 600. It wants to build them. And what it does not have. As a headroom in its housing revenue account, the government promised to confirm its approach to discounted borrowing rate for housing revenue accounts in the autumn. So we are waiting. Councils are waiting eagerly for that news. If Ministers will not raise the £3.9 billion per year to the £6 billion per year that we put in our manifesto for social housing, will they use some additional funds to write off some or all of that housing revenue account debt, so councils like Somerset can get building again, as shelter and others have called for.

And on the scale of the need, the government has announced that 60% of its 300,000 programme will be social housing. That's 18,000 a year, which is, of course, welcome. And when that was first announced in July 2025, we said, though it was not enough and we announcing it this summer does not make it enough either. So will the government raise the target of social homes, if not to 150,000, our target then to a higher number than its 18,000 a year. In addition, the Bill does very little to address the unique issues of affordable housing in rural areas in Taunton, Wellington, all people are saying is unprecedented plans for private housing, which many can't afford.

The council is instructed to consent homes for 180,000 people in the next 15 years. Somerset's never grown by 25% in population in any 15 year period in its history, and it won't in the next 15 years. But acres of beautiful countryside will be gobbled up for private housing permissions that many people in my constituency can't afford. And as a consequence of this, for social housing and the proposals for eating up the greenbelt, my hon. Friend for West Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly has brought to my attention the inspector's decision in Gweek in Cornwall, a decision following the Minister's own policies where all social housing was removed from a previous consent on appeal because under new mandatory government housing targets, the new five year supply could not be met and therefore he must allow all private housing and remove all the social housing from the scheme that needs to be addressed.

But it's not just Cornwall. Most of England, at least most of southern England, is covered by councils that, thanks to the new standard method, can no longer achieve the new five year land supply. So the majority of those councils we have a planning free for all where social homes are not being safeguarded. The standard method has to go. We should replace it with a return to properly researched household projections that take into account movements between regions and safeguard exception sites for social housing, which are being lost as a result.

Fortunately, my hon. Friend for West Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly has thought about this and has a Bill which would address do exactly that. Permission in principle, capped at nine dwellings, sits below the affordable housing threshold, so that too means sites are being lost. The government's bill does protect rural social homes from being sold, which I welcome, and we on these benches welcome. However, as long as the planning system alongside it closes down the supply of new ones, that simply will not be enough.

Overall, this bill does not go far enough. In contrast, therefore, our Liberal Democrat housing bill, which I had the privilege of presenting to Madam Deputy Speaker not so long ago, would establish a target of 150,000 new social homes a year, including a new wave of rent to own, allowing people, young people, to get on the housing ladder would require the Secretary of State to report on progress on this target and give local authorities proper powers over social housing. They need to achieve it, including the right to end Right to Buy in their area.

If it is right for them and their community. That's the Liberal Democrat vision for revolution in the delivery of social homes, and I commend it to the House. Yes.
15:10
Joe Powell Portrait Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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Joe Powell thank. >> You. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. The housing crisis in Kensington and Bayswater is one of the biggest Bayswater is one of the biggest drivers of inequality in our community. Overcrowding, damp and mould, families stuck in temporary mould, families stuck in temporary accommodation and a lack of options for people with accessibility issues is a huge drag on life chances and opportunity, including for children. The issue is not helped, by the way, by conservative run Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea receiving a C three rating from the regulator of social housing, a staggering failure nearly ten years after the Grenfell Tower tragedy, in which the inquiry found major failings at the council.

And it certainly would not be helped either by an entirely arbitrary £4 billion cut in housing benefit that would dramatically increase homelessness, require the local authority to spend more on temporary accommodation and dramatically change the socio economic makeup of communities like mine. A truly shameful policy, and I'd happily take an intervention from the front bench if they want to defend it. But it certainly

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would not support any of the issues will. Thank you.

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Thank you. All for giving way. My area Bournemouth West is probably like his in that the local housing allowance doesn't nearly stretch to allowance doesn't nearly stretch to the market rates. Market rates are well above the national average and wages in my area below. So would he agree that the conservative policy of capping that, and the lack of social housing building over the

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social housing building over the last decade, have exacerbated the issues we're now seeing in our constituencies? I completely agree with my hon. Friend and as the Prime Minister said yesterday, it will just increase homelessness and will be entirely self-defeating because it will just shift the bill to local authorities, who then have to deal with the problem rather than tackling tackling the problem, as we're doing today in this bill. So what we actually need is more social and genuinely affordable housing, and I welcome the steps this bill takes to address that issue, because there is no doubt that unchecked right to buy has contributed to the problem.

The measures in this bill are sensible. They'll make a difference. They build on previous policy changes the government has already made, including making permanent the retention of 100% of right to buy receipts. But how the implementation of these measures work in communities like mine will obviously be vital in many of our council estates and buildings. The current owners of Right to Buy properties are actually open to selling now. That is partly because of estate regeneration costs, concerns about service charges and quality.

And these leaseholders may not necessarily benefit to the full extent of other private leaseholders, from the easier path to commonhold and resident run buildings that the government will be bringing in for leaseholders in general. So I'd welcome further information about how local authorities can be supported to buy back properties in blocks where the council is already the freeholder, and I fully understand that is an admission of failure of the historic right to buy policy, which certainly would not be helped by retaining the three year eligibility requirements that the Shadow Minister supported in his speech.

Changing that to ten years makes much more sense, much more strategic sense for councils, because it incentivises both those buybacks, but also investment in

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new council housing. From my. Give way. Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. My constituency of giving way. My constituency of Ealing Southall in the borough of Ealing. 3000 families are in temporary accommodation, 7500 families on the housing list. 9000 homes were sold off under the right homes were sold off under the right to buy since the 1980s. Does my hon. Friend agree that, in fact, this bill has the right balance of this bill has the right balance of continuing social mobility for long standing tenants while protecting homes for those most in need?

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I do agree we have to increase supply in any way we can. And my point on buybacks is that that demonstrates the false economics of the system, because councils are the system, because councils are buying back our premium, and often they have to buy back only for temporary accommodation, because that's where the costs are so high that's where the costs are so high rather than for secure tenancies, which is what we need for lifetime secure, secure tenancies. We also secure, secure tenancies.

We also have a real challenge on housing association disposals, which I know others will speak to. The classic examples being Victorian era street properties in North Kensington and Notting Hill. I'm hearing of accelerated sell offs as housing associations raise revenue to deal with the recent challenging financial situation. They've had given requirements to improve standards and remediation costs. But given the government has now backed the sector with access to the Building Safety Fund, a ten year rent settlement, low cost loans and more, I really hope those disposal numbers will drop because I know from experience, those homes in my constituency are unlikely to be replaced in the same community.

The new notification period for housing association to the Council of four weeks is therefore extremely welcome, but it must lead to more purchases by local authorities of these properties. So I'd welcome further information from the Minister of what impact he expects these notification periods to be. What guidance could be provided to housing providers given their independence? To make clear, private sector sales should be a plan B, and what support local authorities will have to purchase these properties. Moving very briefly on to shared ownership, I welcome the Minister's close, close attention to the operations and effectiveness of shared ownership.

Ministers will know about the case of Shaftesbury Place because I've raised it before. A building near Earls Court, where approximately third shared a 30 shared ownership flats, experienced a 21 fold increase in building insurance due to a disputed fire risk assessment. The shared ownership leaseholders there have consistently raised issues with the management of the building by Notting Hill Genesis, from broken security gates to cleaning and unauthorised access requests and late accounts. In many ways, these residents are experiencing the same challenges that many leaseholders have with managing agents in the private sector, which I hope the government will introduce a new independent, regulated regulator for.

So can the Minister assure me that how housing associations manage shared ownership properties will be considered under forthcoming leasehold reforms, but also in the department's work to review the challenges of shared ownership? I also, of course, welcome the new measures in this bill on keeping victims of domestic abuse safer and look forward to seeing them. Those powers be used by landlords. Clearly, there is no one solution to the housing crisis in a community like mine in Kensington and Bayswater.

But today's bill is a really important step forward and I strongly welcome it.
15:17
Lee Dillon Portrait Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)
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Lee Dillon thank. record that I'm a passionate advocate for social housing. I've lived in it and I've worked in it for the 14 years before I entered this house, I worked for a social housing provider in customer service, community development and housing management, and I put on record that my wife still does. I saw the passion and do see the passion of staff who deliver those services every day. And I saw the frustration of customers who relied on it. I know how good this sector can be, and I know where it can sometimes fall short.

Now, as an MP, like others in the House, we also see through casework issues where tenants demand and deserve more, from housing allocation to repair issues to ASB. I'm also happy, Madam Deputy Speaker, to put on record that this government has helped not hindered social housing since coming to power, rent convergence, long term rent settlements, listening to the sector about phasing in additional safety checks are real, and I welcome them, and they deserve recognition from these benches. And so I welcome the government bringing forward more changes that are needed.

But I have to be honest that I'm disappointed that the bill is limited in scope, and I genuinely ask the government to reflect on that, particularly the report from the Regulatory Policy Committee's opinion on the bill. On the 24th of July, the PC rated the bill's impact assessment as not fit for purpose, based on its scrutiny of the evidence and analysis put forward to justify the case for regulation. This is not a technicality. It's a warning that the case for this bill does and does not.

What this bill does do and what does not, and what of what it doesn't do and what has not been properly made. If we're going to legislate on something as important as the future of social housing, the evidence base before it should be beyond question. Now, I'd like to briefly address the four main areas of the bill on Right to Buy. I support increasing the minimum tenancy requirements and on reforming discounts so that they start at 5% of property value and go up to a maximum of 15%, exempting new builds, newly built social and affordable homes for 35 years will make a real impact, despite what the official opposition say in terms of house building, it absolutely will.

Moving on to disposals, and this is where I don't feel protections are adequate enough to empower local communities. I note that the National Housing Federation believe the new requirement strikes the appropriate balance, but I have to disagree. In constituencies like mine, large scale voluntary stock transfers were the reason that those providers got the stock that they did. In West Berkshire, the main registered provider there has been created from an SVT. That stock must be protected. It's not enough for the local council just to be notified.

It must also include the reason for the sale, how, when and where they will replace the stock within that LA and if not possible, a financial contribution to a section 106 pot. Following the practice of local authorities keeping right to buy receipts. As a constituency with many rural areas, I welcome exempting rural properties from the scheme, but I also think we should consider exemptions for much needed larger homes, like four and five beds, so that they're not lost forever within the social housing stock.

And of course, I support the protection for victims of domestic abuse. I have live pieces of casework on this very issue. So those constituents will find relief that the government has acted on this, and the housing sector will be supportive of greater powers to help those who need it. And I have no major concerns relating to the repealing of unused legislation. But there are other areas of the bill, Madam Speaker, where they are completely silent from protecting existing stock through to empowering existing tenants and young people to have a stronger voice, and for the bill to help make home safer by supporting housing associations with gaining access for safety work.
15:21
Rebecca Long Bailey Portrait Rebecca Long Bailey MP (Salford, Labour)
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Thank you. Yeah. >> Rebecca Long-Bailey Madam Deputy Speaker in Salford, around 3500 applicants are on the housing waiting list today, with 1335 children living in temporary accommodation. And across England, more than 1.3 million house holds are waiting for a social home. But at the current rate of delivery, shelter estimates it would take 119 years to clear those waiting lists. Well, the crisis didn't happen overnight and it wasn't inevitable. We didn't suddenly discover that council housing didn't work.

Previous governments sold it off. They stopped building it. They cut the funding and hollowed out the housing departments that had given local government the skills, capacity and ability to build at scale and in their place. We became increasingly dependent on a private housing market whose primary purpose has always been to generate returns. So it was no surprise when the market didn't deliver the social homes that we needed. It was never going to do that. So that's why I really do welcome the measures before us today to protect protect existing social housing, particularly the reforms to right to Buy.

But it's only the first part of the story. And what we need to see now is the need to build council houses at scale, and to give councils the powers, the funding and the confidence to do it. And we know it can be done because in the greatest city on earth, Salford, we've already shown us how to do it. And in 2017, Paul Dennett and Salford City Council established a council owned housing company created to develop land and increase the supply of council and genuinely affordable homes.

The first homes were delivered in 2019 and by April this year, 513 homes have been built, with another 700 in construction or development. Now that's public ownership in practice, and it's particularly significant because much of this happened during austerity, when councils were on their knees. We used our land, our democratic mandate and our own housing company to rebuild the capacity that successive governments had allowed to disappear. And we did it on a shoestring. So imagine what could be achieved with government support.

And that's the lesson that I want the House to take today from Salford. Councils can acquire land, they can develop it and they can build high quality, energy efficient homes. But crucially, they can retain those homes as public assets for generations to come. So I very much welcome the government's ambition to put councils back at the heart of house building, including the 39 billion affordable housing programme and the commitment to a major expansion in council house building. But if we're serious about delivering that ambition, we need to see the detail that will make it real now.

Not in ten years time. Now, how many of those homes will actually be owned by councils? How much funding will go directly to local authorities? Will councils have the borrowing capacity they need to deliver, and will grant rates make genuinely social rent homes financially viable? And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, we've got to be honest about what we mean by affordable. A home doesn't become affordable simply because we put the word affordable in front of it. For a family on a low wage, 80% of an inflated market rent can still be completely unaffordable.

Social rent has to be different, and it's different because it's designed for what people can genuinely afford. So we have to invest in council house building and make that a central pillar of our industrial strategy going forward. There's been lots of talk about crowding in private investment this week. That will only happen if the government sets the strategic direction here and puts the funding on the table for council to deliver. Thank you.
15:25
Liz Jarvis Portrait Liz Jarvis MP (Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you, Madam Speaker. As someone who grew up in rented accommodation, with all the accommodation, with all the uncertainty that goes with it, I fully understand the pressures faced by so many families who just want a permanent home of their own. want a permanent home of their own. So I welcome many of the provisions in this bill, notably the reforms to Right to Buy and the strengthened protections for tenants of domestic violence Right to Buy transform the lives of millions of social housing tenants, letting them own a home when that seemed a distant dream.

But its implementation ravaged the social housing stock in this country, over 2 million homes sold only 500,000 new social rent homes built since 1980. That is why I welcome this bill's provisions protecting what remains of that stock, extending the minimum tenancy requirement, curtailing discounts to the number of times a tenant can exercise right to buy, and giving local authorities first refusal when a social home is resold. These are positive steps towards redressing the balance between social and private rented housing.

The Liberal Democrat run council in Eastleigh has invested heavily in housing across the borough, through partnerships with housebuilders and housing associations, and by commissioning homes directly. The recent announcement that Eastleigh is one of three strategic partners in Homes England's Social and Affordable Homes Programme 2026 to 2036 is testament to their success. Madam Deputy Speaker, For too long it has been the victims of domestic abuse who have been forced to escape their homes. Clause 12 and schedule one begin to correct that, giving survivors a simplified legal mechanism to remove an abuser from a joint social tenancy.

So it is the perpetrator who loses the home they use as a weapon of control. Crucially, this bill also closes a loophole that has too often been exploited where an abuser can currently end a joint tenancy on a technicality through a notice to quit while possession proceedings against them are ongoing, leaving the survivor survivor with nothing. This bill stops that, giving

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Housing associations, the clear, workable powers they've lacked to help survivors remain safely in help survivors remain safely in their own home or move to suitable alternative social housing without losing tenancy rights. My constituent Karen and her two children fled domestic abuse. She was refused social housing because she jointly owns the property. Her she jointly owns the property. Her ex-partner deliberately keeps off the as a form of control. After a year spent in a refuge living in a year spent in a refuge living in a single room, Karen and her children were served a notice to leave with nowhere secure to go.

They have since found a home, but should never have had to fight this hard to get one. Her case shows that a joint title of property can trap a domestic abuse survivor just as surely as a joint tenancy can, and the same is true of housing related debt caused by an abuser. Madam Deputy Speaker, Clause 17 removes commenced provisions from the 2016 Housing and Planning Act that would have phased out lifetime secure tenancies. I strongly support this. It gives tenants housing security and lets a family build a life within a community, not just occupy a home.

In conclusion, this bill seeks to simplify what never needed, complicating and protect what matters to tenants. So I support the bill and trust the committee will ask how this proposed legislation could go further to ensure everyone has a home to call their own.
15:28
Darren Paffey Portrait Darren Paffey MP (Southampton Itchen, Labour)
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Darren Paffey thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> Can I. >> Congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister for bringing this forward. This is a manifesto commitment, and it is one that will matter enormously to communities like mine in Southampton. Prioritising the building of social homes and protecting better, protecting the stocks that we already have. And we're talking a lot about bricks and mortar. But I'm sure we all know that these measures speak directly to whether children have a stable place to grow up, whether survivors of abuse can live their lives in safety, and whether places like Southampton can offer its residents decent, affordable housing as a reality, not a pipe dream.

Our city council manages around 18,000 homes. There are another 2500 leasehold and shared ownership properties. It's a huge and valuable asset, but it is an asset under strain with more than 8000 people on the waiting list. And in that time, that means families live in overcrowded flats, they're in temporary accommodation and workers who come and contribute enormously to our city can't afford a home that is genuinely affordable or secure. And these are the kinds

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of situations that come up in my surgery, and I'm sure others too. I will give way. Many thanks. For giving way. Does the hon. Gentleman find, as.

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Gentleman find, as. I do in my patch, that those who. Are on the social housing waiting list. Far longest are.

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Far longest are. Often those with a disability who need a fully adaptable home, and that it is vital that when we spend the money on building public money, on building new homes, that they should be built to an accessible and adaptable standard

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accessible and adaptable standard from the off. Yes. I thank the hon. Lady for making a very salient point. It is true on my patch as well, either for themselves as tenants or needing homes with adaptations for disabled children. So that is something I hope the Minister will be able to speak to. All of these are reasons why one of the most important and most welcome aspects of this bill is its central measure to protect existing social housing stock by reforming the right to buy.

Since 1980, this country has sold more than 2 million social homes through Right to Buy, replacing only a fraction of them. And of the three council homes that I remember growing up in as a child with my family, I often wonder whether those have been lost to the system rather than the great memories of a secure home that we have. Southampton has felt that loss directly as well as at the same time as facing rising costs for emergency accommodation for homeless families.

So the measures in this bill on extending the qualifying period, on tapering the discount and and exempting new social homes are sensible, proportionate changes. They preserve a genuine route into home ownership for long standing tenants, while removing the perverse incentive that has for decades discouraged councils like mine from building. I welcome the new requirement for private registered providers to give notice before selling a home, so that the council or another provider has a real chance to keep it in the social sector.

It's a small, but it's a practical protection and one that I will strongly be encouraging Southampton City Council to use. And I also particularly welcome the provisions in part three relating to survivors of domestic abuse. As other members have said, a home should be a place of safety. Yet for many victims, housing insecurity is what stops them from escaping abuse. That is unforgivable and we have to remove that barrier. These measures will make it easier for survivors to remain in safe accommodation, and I hope that members across the House should be able to address two questions in winding up.

Firstly, how will the government ensure that these protections translate into genuine. A genuine long term increase in social, rented stock and high demand areas like Southampton, where waiting lists and temporary accommodation costs are already straining local services. Secondly, what support will be available to local authorities and to housing associations to implement the bill successfully? We know that the legislative reform is essential, but councils need the financial and operational capacity to deliver the outcomes that we are all so behind.

So will the Department match the ambition of this bill, with the capital investment needed to ensure that authorities like Southampton, which already carry a decent homes backlog on more than half their stock, can genuinely invest. As others have said, legislation alone won't solve every aspect of the home of the housing crisis that faces Southampton and the country. But this bill takes bold and meaningful steps in the right direction. Protecting social housing, stopping the leaks in the bucket. It protects survivors of domestic abuse in their own homes, and it gives councils the tools and confidence to build again.

I know that for residents in Southampton and across the company, across the country, sorry, who need a safe, affordable and secure home that progress matters. And that is why I will proudly vote for this progress today.
15:33
Bobby Dean Portrait Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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Dean. >> Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker £7.9 billion a year. That's how £7.9 billion a year. That's how much the Chartered Institute of Housing estimates is spent on housing benefit for tenants renting privately. Now, in my local area, a lot of that will be going to people living in the Saint Helier estate, which was one of the largest London council estates built during the inter-war period, but much of which has been sold under right to buy over the past few decades.

So that means that instead of our local authority receiving rent from those properties, the national government is paying market rates to private landlords of homes that we built. This is maddening, and it surely makes that the scale of right to buy sales, alongside the failure to

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replenish the stock when the single greatest policy failures for a generation. Yeah.

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Yeah. Happily give way. I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. And indeed, I know that Saint Helier estate well, but Saint Helier estate well, but wouldn't he agree that it was his own party, the Liberal Democrats, in coalition with the Conservatives, in coalition with the Conservatives, who massively increased discounts for the right to buy that cause? The very problem he is talking

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about today. I'm sure the hon. Member is well aware that Right to Buy sales are happening throughout the 90s during the last Labour government as well. So I think there is a stain on all parties over the last few decades on this matter. The impact of this loss of stock is, of course, not only to the taxpayer but to our constituents. My inbox is full of people struggling in the housing market. It's by far the biggest issue that I face in my patch, and it's the one that I end up feeling the most hopeless on.

Sure, we can get things fixed in relation to condition of housing and repairs, and sometimes we're able to get people's position on the waiting list successfully reviewed. But a lot of the time the fundamental issue is supply, and that we've got thousands of people waiting and just a couple of hundred of properties becoming available here. And for that, I have no magic wand. And it means that I have families living in one bedroom accommodation where teenagers are sharing the only bedroom and parents are sleeping on the sofa.

And I have hard working families come up to me all the time who are frustrated that they're told that there's no point in even applying to get on the list. And it didn't used to be this way. I myself benefited first hand from growing up in council accommodation. My parents are working class parents, scaffolder and cleaners, and they raised a family in that household well. And when my youngest brother was born, the third sibling, we managed to move from a two bedroom flat into a three bedroom house.

And that was considered normal back then. And now that sort of situation feels like a luxury. We've we've turned social housing into an emergency provision for the vulnerable. Instead of being the foundation of our society. And to fix the supply problem is going to require pretty bold reforms to local authority, resources and powers. They need greater staffing capacity. They need relief from the unjustified housing revenue account debts, and they need to be liberated to build directly. Now, the Right to Buy reforms in this bill, and they form the centrepiece of this film, are very welcome, and it will stem the losses.

But it must surely only be the first step. If the Prime Minister's ambition in this area is to be realised. And given how precious legislative time is in this place, I would hope that more work will be done as this bill progresses through the House to increase the supply of homes, too. And finally, I want to remark upon how what has happened to social housing in this country is part of a broader public policy failure, one where the government is forced into throwing good money after bad intervening late rather than investing early.

And I hope that we can in the future, understand that social housing is recognised as national infrastructure. It's part of our national resilience and we must invest to save more often as a government. So I welcome this bill as a first step on that journey, and I look forward to the government going further to reverse the failures of the past. And seeing as I have the time, I will make one more remark. I think it's notable that the Conservative Party have put forward a recommendation today, one that picks on minorities, but not a single one of their backbenchers have come in to defend them.

What a disgrace. They should have the bravery to make the argument in full, if that's what they want to do today.
15:38
Andrew Cooper Portrait Andrew Cooper MP (Mid Cheshire, Labour)
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Thank you. >> And with a three minute time limit from after the next speaker. >> Andrew Cooper thank you, Madam

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Andrew Cooper thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I am mindful of time, so I'll just make two points. Firstly, on right to buy. No one would dispute that the Right to buy scheme has helped many families achieve the dream of home ownership, but that might otherwise have been beyond their reach. But its ideological implementation has had consequences. More than 2 million social homes have been sold since the scheme was first introduced, yet far too many of those properties were never replaced.

The result has been a significant reduction in the stock of good quality, affordable social housing that's available to meet today's demand and the risk that newly built homes could be lost before the investment costs can be recovered, has weakened confidence of providers to invest in new social housing at anywhere like the scale required. We have more than 1.3 million households on social housing waiting lists, while close to 180 000 children are growing up without the security of a stable home. I therefore welcome the measures that seek to place right to buy in a more sustainable footing to protect existing social housing stock, to encourage new housebuilding, and to ensure that more people are able to access the decent, safe, secure and affordable homes that every family deserves.

Where I would like to see the bill go further, though, is in ensuring that homes sold at a discount through Right to Buy do not immediately end up being let out for private profit. The New Economics Foundation estimates that 41% of homes sold through Right to Buy are now in the private rented sector. This cannot be justified as a good use of public money. I hope the government will consider amendments to prevent this from occurring in future, at least for a period of time after a property is sold, and I'd be happy to speak to the Minister with about how we can bring that forward.

Finally, I want to turn to the introduction of meaningful safeguards for survivors of domestic abuse. These measures recognise that access to safe and secure housing is often fundamental, not only to a survivor's ability to escape, but to rebuild their lives afterwards. We know that perpetrators can exploit housing insecurity as a means of control, leaving victims facing an impossible choice, remain in an abusive situation and continue to endure harm or leave and risk homelessness and further insecurity. No survivor should ever be forced to make that choice.

It is therefore a significant step forward that we are giving social landlords stronger tools to respond, particularly in relation to complex cases involving joint tenancies. The ability for survivors to seek the removal of an abusive partner from a tenancy, enabling them to remain in the safety and familiarity of their own home is extremely positive. Personally, I'd like to see the bill go further though by introducing specific measures to tackle furniture poverty among survivors. Escaping an abusive relationship often requires people to leave home at extremely short notice, taking with them little more than a few personal belongings.

Worse, many survivors have been subjected to financial abuse, leaving them without savings, access to credit or the means to replace the items needed to create a new, safe and secure home. Whilst it's fundamentally important that victims of domestic abuse are always given priority access to social housing, the reality is that many of the allocated properties are entirely unfurnished. As a result, families who have already experienced trauma can find themselves moving into an empty property without beds, kitchens, appliances, flooring, curtains or other basic household items.

In these circumstances, the challenge is not simply accessing housing but being able to live in it. A safe and secure home should be the foundation from which survivors rebuild their lives, not the start of another period of hardship. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is an important pillar of the government's work and commitment to create a social housing system that is fairer, more secure and works better for the people who depend on it. I'm proud to support this bill and the positive changes it seeks

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to address across our social housing sector. Andrew George Deputy Speaker I

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Andrew George Deputy Speaker I support the bill, and I think it's the beginning of what the government should be doing, but I do think that they can and should do think that they can and should go a great deal further, both in relation to addressing the the the need for significant growth in the in the scale of social housing in the scale of social housing being being built and also to support our those particularly vulnerable groups. And as the Bill rightly says, the victims of of domestic violence.

I I'm also surprised that the the right to buy hasn't been. Or the protections from Right to Buy hasn't been extended by. By preventing sales of those homes, which are held by community land trusts, housing courts and not for profit housing providers who have very small stocks. And really, those do need to be absolutely protected. I'm also surprised that that the
15:43
Andrew George Portrait Andrew George MP (St Ives, Liberal Democrat)
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government hasn't brought forward measures to to stop the bedroom tax, measures to to stop the bedroom tax, which is something which it campaigned against during the coalition government. And indeed, I coalition government. And indeed, I brought in an affordable homes bill at that stage, which which the then Labour government supported. And they haven't proceeded to continue to, to to include it in this in to, to to include it in this in this bill as well, in relation to disposals and clause 212 of the the bill on which I intervened on the on the Minister earlier, I do hope that the Minister will take a second look at this issue, because certainly the haemorrhaging presently of of the amount of stock going out into the the private sector as a result of understandable requirements to the government to to achieve higher levels of EPC levels and obviously, decent homes standards, and where it becomes too expensive for housing associations to deliver that.

What they should also do is, is there should be a presumption in favour of, of disposal to democratic bodies such as community land trusts, a value consistent with affordable housing. The problem is the housing association sell them at open market value, when in fact they could be taken on by local charitable bodies and still be provided to to local people in housing need. I know that the Minister referred to my private member's bill, and certainly there were a number of provisions in it, which I hope he would consider, which I don't need to propose myself, and also to strengthen the protections of areas outside, outside, immediately adjoining communities vis a vis the reference to to rural exceptions policies which are made by my hon.

Friend the Member for Taunton earlier. We do need to protect those and indeed, indeed find out how we can deliver more social housing when the hope value is being fuelled by counterproductive housing targets, which is undermining so many measures which should be available to communities to deliver what is desperately needed? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
15:45
Alex McIntyre Portrait Alex McIntyre MP (Gloucester, Labour)
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Alex McIntyre thank you, Madam >> Alex McIntyre thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Housing remains one of the biggest challenges in my inbox, and I meet weekly with inbox, and I meet weekly with constituents who are stuck on a waiting list for social housing. In fact, almost 5000 families are fact, almost 5000 families are waiting for somewhere to call home. And I'm proud to support this government, which is committed to the biggest increase in social housing in a generation. And that is in stark contrast to the record of the party opposite.

Rough sleeping up 165%. Under that government, the number of children living in temporary accommodation more than doubling, and their current plan to add another 100,000 to that list. It's simply not acceptable. Not on our watch. So I welcome this bill. I agree that it is right that we incentivise the building of social homes. We need to build more in Gloucester, and I stand ready to work with Gloucester City Council on a cross-party basis. Local housing associations and Homes England to deliver this.

But it's also important that we improve the quality of existing social homes too, and follow through on the promises made to local residents in Podsmead and Matson, who've been promised regeneration of their areas for far too long without it being delivered. And finally, I'm pleased to see that cross-departmental work this department is doing to tackle violence against women and girls. No one should be forced to stay in an unsafe situation because they're worried about becoming homeless. So I welcome measures to support survivors and victims of domestic abuse, especially new mechanisms to remove perpetrators from their tenancies.

Not victims. Alongside our government's commitment to offer everyone sleeping rough a roof by Christmas with £1.6 million for Gloucester City Council to deliver this, we're making a clear argument on these benches that everyone deserves a safe, decent place to call home. Those are the foundations that we need so that we can rebuild hope in Gloucester and deliver the better future that my constituents deserve.

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Charlotte Cane thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker and I. Refer members to my register of interest. I'm an East Cambridgeshire District Council, a district council which erroneously boasts of being debt erroneously boasts of being debt free because it sold its housing stock many years ago and criticises the other district council in my the other district council in my constituency, South Cambridgeshire and indeed Cambridge City, for having major debts, without having major debts, without mentioning that they've retained their council houses and indeed built more, continue to build more.

So I absolutely agree. We have to have to address that. Average house prices in my constituency are about ten times average salary. The average rent is over £1,000 a month. So it's not surprising that a lot of my inbox is talking about social housing need. And indeed, I've had
15:48
Charlotte Cane Portrait Charlotte Cane MP (Ely and East Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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people in my surgeries in tears because they can't get decent homes for their family. So we must build for their family. So we must build more council houses. I support that. I would like the Minister to I would like the Minister to consider carefully rural areas where we might be able to only accommodate 2 or 3, but we really accommodate 2 or 3, but we really do need them. And it's not just a case of building large quantities in, in in the bigger towns, and in, in in the bigger towns, and that we need a good mix of council housing, larger houses for larger families, bungalows for people who are getting more elderly and want to downsize.

And we also need to make sure that those houses that we have are in really good condition. And I really welcome the Warm Homes Social Housing Fund, which is helping many of my constituents replace their oil fired boilers with air source heat pumps. But I wonder if there could be a similar sort of grant to bring those houses up to a good standard. Many of them were built in the 20s and 30s and then very poorly insulated in around the 70s, which is adding to the damp problems.

And it's a huge cost for the social housing providers to address that. And as we've heard, what is ending up happening is when those houses become empty because they cannot make the figures stack up, the cost of the repairs versus the future income rent stream. They're selling those houses in the private sector, and some of them are in my villages where we already don't have anything like enough social houses. So they really do need some financial help to bring that stock up to a decent standard and shared ownership.

I also get people worried about that because they they feel trapped. The very high service charges they can't afford. But when they try to sell it, potential buyers look at the very high service charges and pull out of the scheme. So I'm really glad the government is going to review that.

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James Naish thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome this bill and the government's commitment to a decade government's commitment to a decade of renewal for social and affordable housing, and I want to use my time today to speak on behalf of the villages in my constituency and to draw the House's attention to the work of the Labour Rural Research Group. the Labour Rural Research Group. Too often, affordable housing is discussed as though it is purely an urban and metropolitan problem.

It urban and metropolitan problem. It is not, as we've just heard, in villages across Rushcliffe and across rural Britain. Families are being priced out of the places where they grew up. Young people are leaving because they cannot find a home. And the stock of social housing that once anchored our rural communities is shrinking, not growing. The jobs report from March 2026 on rural poverty in England sets this out starkly in 2024 2025, just 17,506 affordable homes were delivered in rural local authorities, against 47,256 in urban ones, and rural delivery actually fell by 2% on the year before.

While urban delivery rose and in a significant number of rural councils, only 4% of homes are affordable to someone on an average local income, against 10% in urban authorities. And that is why I particularly welcome the fact that this bill already exempts properties in designated rural areas from right to buy. That principle reflects exactly what the league called for in its report. Recognition that rural housing is structurally different, and that policy needs to treat it accordingly. But I do want to press the Minister to go further on three specific areas.

First, on the disposal of rural social housing stock. We would particularly welcome a local replacement guarantee. So rural communities are not subsidising urban housing waiting lists at the expense of their own when stock is disposed. Secondly, on rural exception sites, these small sites deliver really important housing opportunities in rural areas. But the league has called for these to be placed on a statutory footing alongside the bill's right to buy reforms, and for the policy to be strengthened and simplified so that planning authorities can accelerate delivery.

And thirdly, on measurement and targets. As it stands, we do not properly track rural affordable housing delivery as a distinct category, and the league has called for a dedicated rural affordable housing delivery target with separate monitoring by tenure type, because without that data, we cannot know whether policies are

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working for rural communities. Will the hon. Gentleman give way? I will. Might I suggest a fourth I will. Might I suggest a fourth area on which the Minister could go further, which is producing social housing, which has flooring as housing, which has flooring as standard. That is what's delivered by the private market. But it's not a requirement for social housing

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providers at the moment. Thank you. I thank you for your intervention. And I think there are several areas where we can definitely provide greater
15:53
James Naish Portrait James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)
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definitely provide greater intervention to support our rural communities. But let me be clear, this bill is a good and necessary step. It protects social housing stock. It gives greater security to survivors of domestic abuse and reduces unnecessary bureaucracy for providers. But if we are genuinely serious about a decade of renewal that reaches every postcode, rural Britain cannot be an afterthought. And so I hope the Minister will look closely at the league's recommendations as this bill progresses, so that we can make sure that rural communities are not left behind.



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Thank you. MPs welcome this. Bill as a step in the right direction. It includes important changes, but it doesn't match the changes, but it doesn't match the scale of our housing crisis, and it needs to be braver and bolder and deliver the council homes our deliver the council homes our communities desperately need. Social housing is not just a roof over your head. It is a secure home over your head. It is a secure home where you come back to after a long day.

It's where your kids grow up and your grandkids come round. It's knowing your neighbours and having knowing your neighbours and having somewhere safe and secure to put down roots. That is the kind of security that everyone deserves. But more than 1.3 million households are waiting for a social home, and more than 170 000 children are living in temporary accommodation. And that statistic alone should shame us into action. Councils are giving millions of pounds to private landlords, and I see what the lack of council housing means for people in Gorton and Denton every single day across Manchester and Tameside, 3180 households are in temporary
15:54
Hannah Spencer Portrait Hannah Spencer MP (Gorton and Denton, Green Party)
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accommodation, including 5368 children. There are parents of four children, including twin babies, with additional needs squeezed into a two bedroom home. A family of seven, including a child with a seven, including a child with a rare genetic disorder, living in an overcrowded three bedroom home, and the couple, who've been on waiting the couple, who've been on waiting lists for over ten years now, approaching retirement and terrified that they simply won't be terrified that they simply won't be able to afford their rent when they have to stop working.

So we need to do three things. First, stop selling off the homes that we've already got. We need to abolish right to buy. And this bill makes it harder. But if more than a million households are waiting for a social home, how can we still justify selling them off at all? And this is not to criticise anyone who has bought their council home. Those people aren't to blame. But the policy is. Scotland ended Right to Buy in 2016. Wales has done the same and it is time for England to join them.

Second, we need more social homes. We need to build more social homes. After the Second World War, councils were building more than 120,000 social homes a year on average. We need that ambition again because today councils in England are building an average of just 1320 social rent homes a year, and on my maths, that is an average of about four per constituency. And when the Prime Minister was campaigning to be MP for Makerfield, he said that all of the £39 billion affordable housing fund should be dedicated to building council homes.

But he has now backtracked on that. Why? We need to get building again properly and at scale. And third, we need to buy back the stock. Green MPs are fully behind the councils that are buying existing homes to bring them back into council housing and buy the supply is an idea brilliantly championed by my hon. Friend, the Member for Brighton Pavilion. We need more of this. So my message to the government is simple be braver, abolish Right to Buy, build social homes at scale and do more of.

Buy the supply can.

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I should declare an interest as the chair of the APPG on Council and Social housing. The scale of and Social housing. The scale of the housing crisis in our communities today represents, in a crowded field, the most crowded field, the most consequential and damaging retreat of the public realm in the UK and a dereliction of its most basic duties. Madam Deputy Speaker, everyone deserves a safe, comfortable and stable home where they can put down roots. So it is very welcome that through this bill,
15:57
Chris Hinchliff Portrait Chris Hinchliff MP (North East Hertfordshire, Labour)
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our national politics begins to recognise that that which you cannot live without cannot be left cannot live without cannot be left to private markets which respond to demand, not need, and that those will never be the same thing in a deeply unequal society like ours. Madam Deputy Speaker, the Madam Deputy Speaker, the consequences of the failure to understand this fundamental economic reality are writ large economic reality are writ large across our nation. More than 130 000 households trapped in temporary accommodation, with many stuck in B&Bs and hostels which are no place to raise a family.

Frankly, it will remain difficult to talk seriously about national pride. Whilst 170,000 kids are homeless in this country and are left without the space to learn and play, to grow and simply enjoy their childhood, that human cost, measured in the futures and happiness of a generation, is proof enough of the urgent need for a change in direction, direction. The choice before us then, and our new Prime Minister is absolutely right in this regard, is whether we continue with a model that provides unsuitable accommodation at extortionate prices, or whether we put the public back in the driving seat.

I welcome this bill's attention to retaining the social housing stock we already have. For far too long, we have lost social homes faster than we have built them. Putting a stop to this trend alongside the Prime Minister's commitment to a new generation of council homes, puts us in a position to position to finally get the housing crisis under control. And I would remind the House that in six years, at a time of shortages, debt constraints and competing demands on public expenditure even greater than our own, the post-war Labour government oversaw the construction of more than 800,000 council houses, some of the best ever built in this country.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, now is the time to once again recognise that the only way to get high quality homes that those on waiting lists can actually afford is directly plan and deliver council housing for people on low incomes, and that only the government, on behalf of the people, can mobilise the patient, capable of realising all the wider benefits that decent, decent homes for all will secure for our society. With fresh leadership in the department, I look forward to supporting this important legislation to ensure we deliver the quality social homes our communities need.
15:59
Edward Morello Portrait Edward Morello MP (West Dorset, Liberal Democrat)
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Edward Morello thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In 2021, there were Deputy Speaker. In 2021, there were 6145 social housing units in the West in my West Dorset constituency, representing just 14.2% of the housing stock, compared with 17.1% across England and Wales. More than 300 000 people are currently on rural social housing waiting lists, and the current build rates. It would take 89 years to clear that backlog. I welcome the bill's measures to Disapply right to buy in national parks and designated rural areas.

In places where social housing is already scarce, we cannot afford to lose more of it. It is therefore right that we protect the limited stock that we currently have. More than anything, though, I welcome the bill's protections for the victims of domestic abuse, because this is where the question of housing becomes a question of safety. If someone knows that leaving means homelessness, temporary accommodation, or being separated from their children, family and support network, the decision to leave an abusive relationship becomes enormously harder.

The bill rightly proposes protections allowing victims in joint social tenancies to remain in their home while the perpetrator is removed, as well as helping victims secure alternative accommodation. Stephanie was forced to leave her family home with her four year old son, neo, because of verbal and emotional abuse from her former partner, who was a joint tenant. Neo has cerebral palsy and has recently undergone back surgery. He's learning to walk again using mobility aids. Stephanie is temporarily staying with her mother and urgently needs suitable housing.

But because the rent on the family home is not up to date, she has been told assistance cannot be provided until the arrears is resolved. She is terrified she'll be placed in temporary accommodation away from Bridport, away from her support network that her son relies on. It's precisely why housing related debt arising from domestic abuse must not become a barrier to accessing accessing social housing. A survivor should not be punished for financial circumstances created or exacerbated by their abuser, and I therefore strongly support strengthening the bill so that survivors can leave unsafe homes, retain their tenancy rights where appropriate, or secure suitable alternative housing without being trapped by the financial consequences of the abuse.

I also want to raise the point that a home is not suitable simply because it is technically available. I have casework involving Ruby, who has offered a first floor flat in Bridport despite having serious physical disability. She was told she couldn't refuse the property. She would not be offered alternative housing. I have numerous other casework. That time simply is not going to allow me to get to, which is a shame, but I just want to say that I would I would want to see the government go further in ensuring that social housing allocation in rural areas reflects local needs, accessibility, disability, age and family circumstances.

But otherwise, I

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support this bill. Thank you, Madam Jon Trickett. Thank you. Very much, ma'am. And I must. Say I was disappointed with the

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Say I was disappointed with the spokesman for the opposition, who sounded complacent when he talked about aspiration, the aspiration to about aspiration, the aspiration to buy a house. Of course that's but doesn't understand the aspiration of people on the waiting list. of people on the waiting list. Millions of people, many children in 170,000 children in temporary in 170,000 children in temporary accommodation who aspire just after a key for a council house. And has he ever seen the gleam in a family's eyes when they got that key and managed to get a secure home, knowing it was there for the future? It is not good enough to simply say the aspiration to buy a
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Jon Trickett Portrait Jon Trickett MP (Normanton and Hemsworth, Labour)
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house is more important than the aspiration to have a home, and to have one which is warm and secure have one which is warm and secure now. And also there was no sense of contrition that the the right to contrition that the the right to buy legislation resulted in 2 million council houses being sold. Since the legislation went in, 2 million was only a quarter million new houses were built in that new houses were built in that period of time. And of those 2 million that were sold, 800,000 now belong to private landlords.

And that is quite a shocking thing as well, because the rents which private landlords charge are a multiple of what a council or a social landlord would charge as well. In my constituency, 6000 homes have gone to private landlords. Now, the council received about £140 million in capital receipts for those 6000 houses, 140 million. They are now worth 1.1 billion. This has been a racket. It's been like a gold rush in the Klondike or something like that. A race in money.

And in the meantime, rent levels in the remaining social housing are only 61% of the level of the rents which are being charged by the private landlords. And it is totally anomalous that in the same street, on the same estate, 2 or 3 houses will be charging a larger rent by the private landlord than the people next door who are still renting from a social landlord. The whole thing has been anomalous, and I think the government does need to move fast.

We cannot allow so many children and families to be left in that very, very perilous situation. 55000 individuals in the in the District of Wakefield struggling. But let me just make one point, because the Treasury is dead hand of economic orthodoxy prioritises housebuilding by housing associations over housebuilding by councils. That is a mistake. Now it's not. This legislation today isn't addressing that. But I wonder whether the Minister will respond in some way, because those rules that a council can borrow money for an asset and build an asset which is worth more than the borrowing, and then receive an income which pays for the rent, but yet it still still counts against the national debt, whereas a housing association doing something different.

And so that, I think, explains the retreat from the commitment to building more housing of by councils rather

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than social landlords. Caroline Voaden thank. welcome. Much of what is in this bill.

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Much of what is in this bill. The reforms to Right to Buy are overdue, and the new protections for tenants experiencing domestic abuse are an important step forward, but this bill lacks the ambition needed to address the wider social housing crisis, and it does little housing crisis, and it does little to address a problem hollowing out village after village across South Devon. The disposal of social housing by registered providers. Since 2018, 19 housing associations have sold over 25,000 social and affordable homes on the open market.

In 2425 alone, they sold 5250, the highest figure on record in the South Hams. One Housing Association has sold 49 homes since 2022, with the heaviest losses in Salcombe and Dartmouth, where property is extremely expensive. And in Kingswear, 36% of social housing stock has been lost in just three years. The primary school has since closed due to a lack of pupils, and with so little affordable housing left, there is little prospect of new families moving in. So we've seen across my constituency 3600 new homes built over the last five years, yet more than 2500 families remain in housing need.

Most are at full market price, way beyond the reach of local people. And I absolutely refute what the shadow Minister said. The answer is not building more open market homes

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that cost £1 million. Yeah. When a single social rented home became available in Marlborough, became available in Marlborough, 119 households bid for it. In Brixham, 190 people bid for one Brixham, 190 people bid for one social home. Yet councils have no power to stop housing associations. Associations disposing of the few Associations disposing of the few affordable homes that remain now. I'm really proud that council housing was introduced by the Liberal Party under Lloyd George. Liberal Party under Lloyd George.

I'm furious that the Conservatives enabled so much of it to be lost. Just this morning I heard from a constituent who's disabled son was offered a bungalow perfectly suited to his needs, allowing him to live independently while remaining close to his family. The family were then told that the housing association intended to dispose of it. A home that could have transformed someone's life is being sold. It's heartbreaking. I'd also like to address the issue of smaller developments of affordable, including social rented homes being
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Helen Hayes Portrait Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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Helen Hayes Deputy Speaker. >> Housing crisis is the single biggest issue facing my constituents in Dulwich and West Norwood, and every single year Norwood, and every single year since I was first elected as a local councillor, on the same day that the coalition government came that the coalition government came into force, came into power on in 2010. I have watched the housing crisis deepen and become more entrenched in my constituency. Our local council had vital grant funding for new social homes withdrawn, subsequent conservative governments froze and cut council rents, leaving gaping holes in the Housing Revenue Account and hamstringing our councils on repairs and investment and right to buy changes, have haemorrhaged council homes out of the system and into the private sector, sometimes only for them to be let back to our councils as temporary accommodation at extortionate rents.

So after 14 years of harmful policies, the impact are clear tens of thousands of families living in temporary accommodation in unsafe, damp, mouldy conditions harming health, undermining the essential stability and security that every one of us needs to thrive. The housing crisis is a housing crisis, but it is also a public health crisis, a cost of living crisis and a basic human decency crisis. But I rise in particular today to speak to the campaign that I have been running since 2022, a reform to social housing regulations called Georgia's Law.

Georgia is a former constituent who had been a social housing tenant for five years when her eldest son was threatened by gang members. Having done nothing wrong, the police told Georgia that his life was at risk and that she needed to move. That move into temporary accommodation was catastrophic for Georgia and her family, ultimately resulting in the murder of her second son. A horrific act that would never have happened had that family's life not been destabilised in that way. And what we discovered was that Georgia had no security of tenure as a social housing tenant in those circumstances where her family had to move through no fault of their own because they were the victims of a threat of serious violence.

So I welcome my hon. Friends commitment on this issue in his engagement on this issue. And I particularly want to thank the noble Lord best for picking up this issue in the Lords and for the debate and discussion that happened in that place, and I look forward to engaging further with my hon. Friend on the amendments that might be brought forward to the Bill to secure in law the protection for social housing tenants who have to move due to a threat of violence, where the police deem that that is necessary so that they do not suffer the compounding trauma of the destabilisation of their lives into temporary accommodation.

I will bring forward an amendment at Report stage if necessary, but I look forward to further engagement

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with my hon. Friend on this issue. In the meantime, Melanie Onn. Thank you. Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker

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Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker and of course, we need more council homes and social homes, and it is homes and social homes, and it is welcome that this bill makes provision for just that. But for provision for just that. But for social housing, we would not see the growth in HMOs that are the growth in HMOs that are blighting communities up and down the country. That indicates that
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Melanie Onn Portrait Melanie Onn MP (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes, Labour)
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that we take action now, because by 2024, it is anticipated that an additional 1.3 million pensioners additional 1.3 million pensioners will be living in rented accommodation and as their earnings accommodation and as their earnings start to level out and become more restricted, whether they are just state pensioners or whether they have some private pension as well, the private rented sector is not necessarily going to be the kindest place for them, and actually social homes are going to be the places that provide them with security and comfort in their elder years.

The Minister will not be surprised to hear me move on to empty homes. It's not the first time that I've mentioned it to him, but we have nearly 2000 in my constituency. And so while we talk about building new social homes, I really do think that there is an opportunity to look at not just building new social homes, but looking at houses that are have been in the private sector that have been empty for a long, long period of time. That makes it easier for local authorities and for third sector voluntary organisations to get access to those homes and utilise them, including bringing in apprenticeships to support bringing them back into use into local communities.

I give way.

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Making a really important point about empty homes. When I was the shadow housing Minister 20 years shadow housing Minister 20 years ago, the Empty Homes Agency estimated 700,000 empty homes in England and Wales alone. That England and Wales alone. That number has barely shifted and no government has brought forward appropriate policies to alter it.

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appropriate policies to alter it. And so I do hope this Minister will look at that closely. I thank you very much for his

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I thank you very much for his intervention in supporting me on that point. I know it is an issue that affects many constituencies across the House. I just finally want to move on to housing associations because obviously they are purveyors of social homes. I do think that there needs to be some form of a review of housing associations in terms of their accountability, alongside expectations of how well they work with local authorities, because when it comes to things like land management and trees, and there is dispute over who looks after the land, I mean, ultimately the people who are living in that area really shouldn't have to be worried about who it is, who has responsibility.

And it seems to be a real sticking point. I see it all the time in my area, and also housing associations that are holding on to empty land, particularly in my constituency. There were high rise flats. They accommodated around 700 people. The housing association decided to tear those down. It has been an eyesore since 2016. It is space where another housing association or the council or charitable sector could easily access that space and build much needed new homes in the town centre.

So we're not seeing that doughnut effect of town centres being hollowed out. And finally, just as a welcome point, it kind of ties into the housing associations. I'm really pleased that despite government not really wanting it to be in there, they have accepted that it's been voted in, that the shared ownership rules will be looked at again, because where shared ownership properties are owned by housing associations, they are very often a consideration, a very last consideration in their portfolios. And it leads to people who perhaps buy those properties for their first rung on a bit of the housing ladder, suddenly finding themselves entirely trapped and then taking up a home that would be somebody else's first step on the ladder.

And there is no

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requirement for housing associations to take that more seriously. Nadia Whittome thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. One of the major drivers of the housing crisis has been the selling off of our council homes under Thatcher's Right to Buy homes under Thatcher's Right to Buy scheme. Not only has it greatly reduced the supply of social housing, exposing more people to housing, exposing more people to higher rents and the insecurity of private renting. But we we now also private renting. But we we now also know that it's indirectly inflated private rents by shifting low income households into market rate
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Nadia Whittome Portrait Nadia Whittome MP (Nottingham East, Labour)
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renting. That's why I welcome this bill in its aims of protecting bill in its aims of protecting existing social housing stock and incentivising the building of more social rented homes. I also commend social rented homes. I also commend its commitment to provide greater social security and stability for social tenants who are victims and survivors of domestic abuse. However, while this bill turns over However, while this bill turns over a new leaf in our housing policy, I am concerned that it doesn't go far enough on Right to Buy new social homes will only be protected for 35 years, and existing tenants will wait seven more years to buy their homes at a discount.

So we'll still lose our social housing stock just at a slower pace. The argument we often hear against removing Right to Buy from existing social housing is that it would be unfair to those hoping to buy their homes at a discount, but selling public assets to private individuals at a loss to the state is accelerating the housing crisis for all. Since council homes began being sold off at a discount, the state has effectively given away an estimated £194 billion.

And to add insult to injury, 41% of these homes are now in the hands of private landlords. The government rightly recognises that we need to replenish our social housing stock. So, as well as a mass programme of council house building, we must also help local authorities to recover former council homes through grants and a stronger right of refusal policy. These measures will, in the long term, pay for themselves. When a typical private tenant spends over a third of their income on rent today, compared to only 10% in 1980, we need more drastic measures to tackle the housing crisis, and that includes stabilising our social housing stock.

We should be ending right to buy completely, as Wales and Scotland have, because every year delayed. Madam Deputy Speaker, is another year that we fail the hundreds of thousands of people without a secure home. The over 170 000 children in England who are in temporary accommodation and of course, the millions paying extortionate rents to their landlords.
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Peter Swallow Portrait Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)
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Peter Swallow thank you, Madam. >> And all that it. >> Will do to support the very Labour promise that everyone should have access to a. Safe and. >> Secure place to call their.

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Home, while the Leader of the Opposition apparently believes that if nurses, teaching assistants and tradies can't afford to live in tradies can't afford to live in Bracknell Forest, with its high rents and house prices, they should be forced to move out. I believe be forced to move out. I believe the answer is more social and council housing to support people from Bracknell Forest to stay in Bracknell Forest, and that's why I support the leader of Bracknell Forest, Councillor Helen Purnell's, push to make the council a leading push to make the council a leading force in delivering new council housing.

I welcome the measures in this Bill on the disposal of social housing by Redditch registered providers, but it will not be a surprise to the Minister to hear me say that. I think we need to go further. Since 2018, housing associations have permanently sold 28,585 social homes to private and other non-social purchasers, with 5806 sold in 2020 425 alone, the highest annual figure on record. 87% of those went at open market value, far beyond the reach of local authorities purchasing power.

And unlike Right to Buy, these homes aren't being sold to the families living in them. They're being sold out of the sector entirely into private ownership. In my constituency, 154 homes have been sold since 2018, including bungalows and several three and four bed properties. The very homes Bracknell forest families are most in need of. As it stands, this bill is asking for housing providers to give local authorities notification of any disposals they are planning, but I don't think that they are sufficiently strong enough and I know at Third Reading in the other place, the Minister confirmed government is planning a Commons amendment on the notification period.

So can I press the Housing Minister for more information on this and what we can do to strengthen that measure? But I also want him to consider two further changes to the bill. Firstly, Homes England could should develop a code of responsible disposal practice with the regulator and sector more widely to which housing providers can be held to as a condition of holding long term partner status under the Social and Affordable Homes Programme. A very simple principle here. If they're receiving government money, they should not be disposing of homes where ever possible.

Second, where a social home is disposed of, the government should do more to ensure that the income is reinvested in a replacement social rent home in the same local authority area. I know my right hon. Friend shares my concerns about this issue, and I'm committed to working with him and the government to make sure this bill addresses disposals properly, and I look forward to constructive conversations with the Minister as this bill progresses.
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Apsana Begum Portrait Apsana Begum MP (Poplar and Limehouse, Labour)
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Apsana Begum thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. survivor of domestic abuse, with direct experience of how this issue relates to social housing, I hope that this bill can truly ensure that this bill can truly ensure that it leaves no survivor behind. Indeed, survivors and survivor led organisations that have been campaigning for decades do welcome many provisions in this bill, but have also expressed concern that some of the proposed protections would apply to too small a proportion of survivors with criminal justice outcomes for domestic abuse so poor, it is clear that civil outcomes should be considered as part of the mandatory grounds for eviction.

And I'm glad to have heard today that the issuing of a protective order will be introduced to schedule one. I also believe that we should consider enhancing these grounds to include victims and survivors of rape and other sexual offences, including where a perpetrator is not an intimate partner, for instance, a flatmate. I also hope that the Ministers can clarify how it will incentivise or ensure how the government will incentivise or ensure that these powers are actually used by landlords rather than leaving, leaving them as wholly discretionary on joint tenancies.

There are grounds to say that the proposals exclude many survivors who are not listed as tenants, disproportionately affecting younger survivors and survivors of familial abuse. So I'd be grateful if the Minister is able to clarify if the government has considered or is considering expanding these protections by accepting established evidence of residency in place of named tenancies in place of named tenancy. Further, when a perpetrator has been removed from a joint tenancy, then an unsustainable financial burden may arise for a survivor.

Survivor holding sole custody with the benefit system likely to be too slow to respond. Women's Aid and Refuge and others have called for consideration to be given by the DWP and the minister's own department as to how to incorporate affordability assessments at the point of transfer Madam Deputy Speaker when it comes to provisions of alternative accommodation. This brings up the issue of furniture poverty faced by far too many survivors, and the calls from experts to introduce a statutory duty for social housing.

Provision for survivors to come furnished is a matter I hope the government can also pick up. To conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, I understand that I've raised many different points of consideration. There should be no doubt that the ambition of halving in a decade will require painstaking efforts across all departments, and to examine all frameworks on housing. There is just still far, far more to be done. And that means listening to the sector and to survivors when they point out shortfalls in these proposals.

I hope that the Minister will listen to these concerns and offer to meet with members of the APPG to discuss our concerns and recommendations. Thank you.
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Perran Moon Portrait Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Labour)
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Speaker, Cornwall. Social housing. not only to our severe housing crisis, but one of the greatest blockers to economic regeneration in the conservative years. The construction of new social housing in Cornwall plummeted in 20 1516, for example, just six new homes were built for social rent across the entire Duchy. Combine that with 14,002nd homes and nearly 24000 Airbnb Airbnb listings, which further reduces the overall housing stock. And it comes as no shock that our social housing waiting list now stands at a staggering 25000, which incurs vast costs for emergency and temporary accommodation.

The size of that register will only grow in coming years, unless urgent action is taken in light of our acute housing crisis. I warmly welcome measures in this bill to protect our existing social housing stock, particularly the right to buy exemptions for new social homes and for those in designated rural areas. But the scope of this bill addresses just one element of Cornwall's housing crisis, and I welcome the former Chancellor's stamp duty increase for second homes from 3 to 5%.

I also welcome the Secretary of State for DCMS as confirmation last week that a new registration scheme for short term lets will be live by March, but we must go further. And to that end, I have three quick asks of government. Firstly, I urge the government to review Cornwall Council's £90 million housing revenue Account debt associated with the 2012 self Financing settlement servicing that inherited debt settlement diverts key resources away from repairs to existing homes and delivering additional affordable housing.

Secondly, the government has already recognised the value of low cost development finance through 0.1% loans to housing extensions. Extending those opportunities to councils would unlock significant additional housing delivery. And thirdly, Cornwall must not be locked out of further powers to fund it and funding for social housing, simply because we won't be joining a mayoral strategic authority, a strategic place partnership with Homes England would give us not only the framework to deliver social housing for Cornwall, but also the funding which has so far only gone to mayoral strategic authorities.

Cornwall cannot build a stronger economy on a foundation of housing insecurity. The only sustainable answer is to increase our stock of genuinely affordable social homes. And to do that at scale. And to that end, I strongly welcome this bill.
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Matt Rodda Portrait Matt Rodda MP (Reading Central, Labour)
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and also the sensible measures to reform the right to buy in the limited time that's available to me. I would just like to point out how valuable this is to my constituents valuable this is to my constituents in reading and other similar parts of the country where there's growing demand on public services, a growing population and a shortage of housing, both as an MP and as a councillor, I was very aware of the housing shortage in our town, and housing shortage in our town, and to just describe some of the kind of issues that residents face, they are quite severe.

The cost of housing is high. It can be up to £370,000 for a two bedroom terrace house where I live, and that obviously means that for many people, it's extremely difficult to become an owner occupier and social and affordable, and council housing is extremely important in our community. I've seen terraced houses split up and subdivided into HMOs or into two flats for residents who are under extreme pressure. I've also seen residents have to live in, families have to live in emergency housing.

And so I'm very much in favour of more social and in particular, council housing. And I do believe this bill will help that and support it. We're lucky that our local authority is already taking steps, but I do believe this bill will help them and other local authorities to go much, much further. One of the great pledges recently of my time as an MP was visiting the opening of new council houses in Coley and reading and seeing wonderful modern homes that have been built by Reading Borough Council next to existing council properties.

Using land more efficiently, finding more space for houses, improving local facilities like a children's play park. And I would like to see more of that. And I do believe that the measures, particularly the sensible reforms, will help and support that. And I'm looking forward to working with Ministers on exactly that. And in fact, our local authority. I should commend them, because they have a number of other sites under way and other local authorities are the same. But I would like to see a broader measure, a broader movement across the country where more councils take up these sensible policy options, invest in council housing and provide more council homes to residents who aren't unfortunately able to buy a home of their own.

And as part of that, very briefly, I would like to just flag to the Minister there's an excellent policy which he's announced around liberalising development near stations, which will help hugely with the supply of housing, particularly in our area, where only about 10% of land near Reading Station has been regenerated. So I do hope he can perhaps link up these two policies, and I would look forward to talking to him and perhaps hearing some more this afternoon about that. I also look forward to further action to crack down on irresponsible landlords and to try to support tenants.

And I know he's working very hard on a number of those measures, including on areas like management companies. So I do look forward to hearing more from the Minister. Thank you, Madam Deputy participate.
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Cat Eccles Portrait Cat Eccles MP (Stourbridge, Labour)
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Cat Eccles Madam Deputy Speaker. the government has laid before us today? But I want to use my time to talk about community led housing and its role in delivering on the government's social housing ambitions. I have supported such projects in my constituency for many years, because they embody exactly the sort of innovation and local empowerment that we should be encouraging. I would like to acknowledge the work of Eddie Morton, the chair of Stourbridge Community Land Trust and the development manager of West Midlands Urban Community Homes, and through their engagement with Birmingham City Council, they have successfully helped secure the adoption of community led housing policy, creating a valuable precedent for how local authorities can work positively with community led organisations because too often the process highlights some of the structural barriers that continue to hold back community led housing.

And the reality is that many community land trusts face years of delays before a single home can be built, and every one of those delays has a consequence money that could have been used to reduce rent locally or improve environmental standards is instead absorbed by additional development costs. And for small organisations, those pressures are especially acute. And one of the most consistent concerns I hear is not a lack of ambition, but a lack of understanding within parts of local government. Officers may support affordable housing in principle, yet lack the knowledge, guidance or confidence needed to engage constructively with community led organisations.

And the result of that is delay, inconsistency and missed opportunities. So if the government is serious about unlocking the full potential of community led housing, then financial support must be matched by support for local authorities and housing associations between housing associations and community organisations must remain true to the principles upon which the project are founded and as recently highlighted by my gallant friend for Birmingham Selly Oak, these agreements don't always play out as planned. So could the Minister provide some assurance and guidance to ensure that housing associations honour their commitments to communities and work constructively to deliver genuinely community led schemes? And could I also ask the Minister what steps the government will take to ensure that local authorities have the knowledge, training and guidance necessary to support community land trusts and other community led housing? And would the government consider encouraging councils to identify dedicated officers or champions on these issues to give greater consideration of community organisations when disposing of public land? And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, does the government what mechanisms does the government believe are necessary to ensure that community led housing partnerships remain financially viable and community ownership remains at the heart of the movement? Thank you.
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Danny Beales Portrait Danny Beales MP (Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Labour)
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Danny Beales thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> As someone. >> For whom a council house is an absolute lifeline out of the cycle of homelessness, I strongly welcome of homelessness, I strongly welcome this bill and the government's action outlined within it. I was homeless not because of someone born abroad, but because of decades of government inaction, the mass sell off of council homes without them being replaced, and the housing crisis in this country that's developed over decades. And so I think the comments of the party opposite and their spokesperson were absolutely shameful.

Today, people in temporary accommodation in my constituency will not be served better by those actions. They will be served better by the measures in this bill. I strongly welcome the government's action to support victims of domestic violence. So many of us would have seen victims have to leave their accommodation above perpetrators and awful, awful situations result in that. So I strongly welcome the measures in this bill. As I said to the Minister earlier, I do hope that action around rent arrears only, I think around one fifth of local authorities specifically exclude the rent arrears provisions for victims of domestic violence.

I welcome the guidance, but would encourage the Minister to outline, perhaps more, the timeline for that guidance and how it will be assessed as effective. And I also support the measures to review shared ownership. I've been contacted by Fiona and David and so many constituents who were sold, a dream that turned into a nightmare around shared ownership, with a percentage of ownership, but all the responsibility when things go wrong. So I encourage that review to be comprehensive and thorough. And lastly, Madam Deputy Speaker, we've heard from a number of other members in this debate about the trap of furniture poverty.

I heard from Shannon, who said, who's a victim of domestic abuse, and said, at times I considered returning to the abusive relationship so my daughter would have a bed to sleep in. We have to end furniture poverty. It is not a luxury to have a bed or white goods. They are essential and not having them trap people in a debt cycle and push them towards rent arrears and future homelessness. I would encourage the the Minister to meet with me and with other colleagues interested in ending furniture poverty, to explore how this bill could generally do that.

Thank you.
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Anna Gelderd Portrait Anna Gelderd MP (South East Cornwall, Labour)
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For the two minute time limit. Anna Gelderd. Anna Gelderd. >> Whereas, Madam Deputy. >> Speaker, the. >> Housing crisis is urgently felt by. Cornwall. >> And I warmly.

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And I warmly. Welcome this government taking. Action in Cornwall. We need first homes. Not just. Second homes, and we need generally affordable homes for local people that allows them to stay in the communities where they've built their lives. This is good news for our rural communities because if or when a social home is lost, replacing it can be exceptionally difficult. In areas like mine, our land is constrained, development costs are high and the pressure from second homes and holiday lets can make it harder for local people to compete in the housing market.

I am working with local people to support greater financial literacy and women's financial independence, because I believe and know that everyone needs that knowledge to be secure. So I welcome this focus on the provisions in the bill to protect victims of domestic abuse. Because often for a woman who's living with an abusive partner, the question of whether she can leave is often tied up to the question of where can she go? In South East Cornwall, I've been encouraging key businesses and developers to build affordable homes.

Consider that question, and I want to see my community benefit from government investment each year. Cornwall's infrastructure is put under strain by influence of tourists, and while this seasonal increase helps our economy, it puts pressure on our services. Cornwall Council is ready to work strategically with Homes England to make sure that development strengthens communities and not puts them under greater strain. So I ask the Minister to work with Cornwall to secure that strategic partnership and give them more power to make our communities resilient.

I welcome the PM's focus on growth in every postcode, and it might interest you to know that in South East Cornwall we have many postcodes that are PL Plymouth area postcodes, so we must see our PL postcodes included in our homes. England deal in Plymouth, and I invite the Minister and the Secretary of State to see how much that investment could matter for our area. I know that the Minister wants to see lots of progress and I'm glad to support the bill. I want to see urgent implementation with Cornwall to have that

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partnership, and the same applies to Plymouth. Jayne Kirkham thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I welcome the

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Deputy Speaker, and I welcome the measures in the Bill regarding right to buy and exempting areas. And council homes from market

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And council homes from market rent from the scheme. And welcome Baroness Taylor's commitment to looking at commitment to looking at introducing a power for those rural areas to be designated in regulations and potentially with regulations and potentially with local authorities. Between 1979 and 2025, Cornwall Council sold off 10,000 over nearly 11,000 council houses, which is more than the current remaining HRA council housing stock. Meanwhile, we have
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Lewis Cocking Portrait Lewis Cocking MP (Broxbourne, Conservative)
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Which brings us to the front >> Which brings us to the front bench contribution. Shadow Minister Lewis Cocking.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is a pleasure to speak opposite the new Minister, who I very much enjoyed working with on the housing, Communities and Local Government Select Committee. And now she is on the front bench. I suppose it's left to me to ask the tough questions. This government has said this bill has been designed to encourage social housing providers to invest in the building of new, socially rented homes. They want to encourage councils to build by restricting right to buy.

That is the wrong approach. Yes, waiting lists for council homes are far too high, but making it harder for tenants to get on in life and escape the clusters of the public sector is not the right solution. Ministers should look at what their policies are doing instead. Despite their promises, Labour are going backwards on housebuilding, as our reasoned amendment states. Last year there were fewer 12,800 fewer net additional dwellings delivered in England compared to the previous year. Why aren't the government pledging to take on the developers, who are sitting on thousands of unbuilt planning applications? The Institute for Public Policy, Labour's favourite think tank, has found that 1.4 million homes have been left unbuilt since 2007, despite planning permission being granted 1.4 million homes sounds rather close to the government's challenging target of 1.5 million new homes.

People are fed up with the eyesores in their neighbourhoods, levelled ground left abandoned, surrounded by hoardings. I can show the Minister many examples in my Broxbourne constituency and I'm sure hon. Members right across the House could do the same as well. Taking on the land. Banking developers would have widespread public support, but this government only seems interested in making it easier to build on the green belt. We are still waiting for the government to reveal what action they are taking to speed up building.

Following the consultations held more than 12 months ago. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is clearly no urgency. The government should also consider who should be eligible for the help of a social home. People coming to this country and wishing to live here should not be relying on the generosity of taxpayers. Making Britain your home should be earned by working hard and integrating. It should not come with a free ride on the benefit system. That is why this party will end social housing tenancies for foreign nationals, ensuring that only UK nationals can access social housing would free up 230 000 homes for British families.

That change would make an immediate significant difference to those stuck on council house waiting lists, but the government would prefer they sit around waiting for this bill. Sadly, this government, especially its backbenchers, are blindsided by their ideological dislike of right

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to buy. Yeah. It is clearly, it is clearly and we had a number of people from we had a number of people from across this chamber asked where members are behind me, where today there are lots. As I made the point there are lots. As I made the point in Westminster Hall, there are lots of calls upon members of Parliament time, and I'm sure when we go to our. I'm sure, I'm sure when we go our. I'm sure, I'm sure when we go to our constituencies and do surgeries and people ask when I turn on the TV, when I turn on the turn on the TV, when I turn on the TV and see hardly anyone in the chamber, we all explain.

And I suspect there'll be times when all hon. Members, when all hon. Members can't make important debates, that their constituents want them to make. It is clear. It is clear the view from the party opposite that if we had no right to buy social housing, waiting lists would disappear. But where do they think the 2 million families that have utilised the scheme would be without right to buy? Well, I can tell them they would probably be in the same home. It would just be subsidised by the taxpayer rather than privately owned.

Abolishing right to buy is not the silver bullet they think it is. The government is also placing huge burdens on social housing providers to help Ministers meet their own net zero targets. The cost of complying with new energy regulations is causing significant financial pressure, getting 713,000 homes up to a minimum energy efficiency standard is estimated to cost £4.5 billion, the Chartered Institute for housing told the Select Committee that housing associations do not want to buy properties with gas boilers because they know it will cost them more money to strip them out and make the property energy efficient, which is pushing up council house waiting lists.

The National Housing Federation is clear what this means spending billions to comply with net zero regulations will make it harder to build new homes. Ministers already know this. They reduce energy efficiency targets for social housing in January this year and on that basis, on the basis that providers could not build the new homes because of their financial burden of dealing with upgrading of their existing stock. If Ministers want councils to be incentivised to build, then getting rid of those expensive regulations entirely would be a good place to start.

What is positive to see in this bill is the review of the shared ownership scheme, and I hope when the Minister gets to her feet, she can confirm that the government's intention is that this will stay within the Bill. This obligation was only added onto by the government, by the diligent work of the conservative team. In the other place, I have lived in a shared ownership property, and I know that alongside other forms of ownership, such as leasehold reforms, are desperately needed to fix the many problems residents are facing.

And on this side of the House, we agree that provisions in the bill to protect victims of domestic violence are needed, but a separate legislative measure would have been the right way to bring those forward. And what I would gently say to lots of hon. Members have made impassioned speeches today. I was a council leader. I had a number of meetings with housing providers and housing associations, and not once out of the hundreds of hours of meetings I had with social housing providers, did they say to me, the reason why we cannot build new social homes in Broxbourne, or, for a matter of fact across the country, was because of Right to Buy.

That was never mentioned as a reason as to why housing associations are not building social homes in some in will. Very

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briefly they did. However, in the period that the Conservatives and government point to the 60% cut in the affordable to the 60% cut in the affordable housing Budget, which nearly led to the abolition of social rent under the conservative government, 97% the conservative government, 97% reduction between 2010 and 2016. That is the record that his party stands on.

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stands on. Well, I just have to say gently to the hon. Member who who has come to intervene on me quite a lot. And to intervene on me quite a lot. And we've had quite a ding dong in this in this chamber. Well, when I speak to housing, when I speak to housing providers now, they tell me one of the reasons why they can't build new social homes is because the national employers contribution that the government increased on its employees. So they are spending more money on taxes rather than building new social homes.

In summary, Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is the wrong approach, and it's fundamentally built on the wrong beliefs. It will not build a single new social home. But what it will do is deny many families the opportunity of ever owning a home of their own. The Conservative Party will always be on the side of

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aspiration and opportunity. That is why we will be voting for our reasoned amendment today. Yeah.

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Yeah. Minister Florence Eshalomi. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Before I begin, I would like to thank all right, honourable and hon. Members for bringing their hon. Members for bringing their experience and expertise to today's debate. As many hon. Members have debate. As many hon. Members have highlighted, I was also fortunate enough that my family was able to secure social housing following a period of homelessness in my childhood, and as the hon. Member for Normanton mentioned, that relief and that light in your eyes, when you get a set of keys and know that you and your family do not have to move yet again with plastic bags and a suitcase, the relief that social housing brought us, the safety and security.

Having a roof over your head is priceless, and I share the disappointment, the anger expressed across this house, that this isn't available to many families today. The contributions from many members this afternoon highlights the importance of social housing across our communities, up and down the country. I would like to turn first to the reasoned amendment tabled by the opposition against this bill. Whilst I'm happy to see my hon. Friend, my fellow and former member on the House Select Committee here in his place, I am worried to hear that the opposite bench are actually contradicting themselves.

They welcome our support for protections for victims of domestic abuse, but I'm disappointed with the contradictory response to our wider reforms. The opposition wants to both permit homes to be sold under the right to buy system at an unsustainable rate. That is discouraging our local councils from building them, whilst also saying, on the other hand, we should support more councils to build and increase the supply of social homes. It cannot work like that. I'm mindful of time, Madam Deputy Speaker and we do need to finish, but I just want to reflect on some specific remarks made by some hon.

Members this afternoon. I turn to the comments from my hon. Member and constituency neighbour from Dulwich and West Norwood on the fact of protecting tenants who are fleeing from violence. I'm sad to say that this is an issue that I've helped three families in my constituency where, tragically, they've lost young people due to knife crime. It is important that we look at this issue and highlight some of the changes that my hon. Friend the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich has outlined. I also want to turn to the issue that many members have raised this afternoon with regards to shared ownership.

As my right hon. Friend the Minister Housing Minister outlined, we've taken positive steps to look at the issue of shared ownership model, including the expectations on landlords who build and bid for shared ownership funding. As the Minister highlighted, we do not believe that the reviews necessary, but we are already considering specific issues that have been raised, including the data and long term affordability for customers, and we will report back on this at a later

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date. Very quickly. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wonder if she's aware of the issues wonder if she's aware of the issues that people have when they when they're deceased and and they own a shared ownership home, how difficult it is to sell that. And the estate can end up paying service charges. It can end up paying rent for quite a long period of time. I wonder if she would consider whether there's further action the government might need to take on that point.



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take on that point. I thank my friend for raising that point, and I think these are some of the areas that we will definitely be looking at when my right hon. Friend the Minister is reviewing the shared ownership. The other area that a number of hon. Members and right hon. Members raised is the issue around domestic abuse and debt. It is really important that we know that this is a key area for survivors of domestic abuse. The government is committed in its National plan to end homelessness.

In addressing this issue, we believe that the best guidance out of this route is ensuring that the regulations are amended and relevant legislation is to is to be looked at, and my understanding is that the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich will be looking at this. I'll also point to my hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse. I am due to meet with the all party parliamentary group, she highlighted, and I welcome other hon. Members to attend that meeting. Another issue that a number of members raised is around the issue of disposals and disposals.

I recognise the strength of feeling in the House regarding this matter, and I want to reassure hon. Members that we take this issue very seriously and we want local authorities and Sarah Owen and housing associations to, where possible, retain the homes within the social housing sector. We believe that the new disposals notification requirements in this bill, which will help maximise opportunities for social housing providers to retain the homes. I'll repeat what my hon. Friend highlighted. Housing associations remain independent organisations responsible for their own asset management decisions.

However, we'll continue to explore what further steps we can take to stop social housing stock being sold. Our right to buy reforms mean that we will see a net gain of 18,000 social homes over the next ten years, as opposed to a loss of 26,000 homes if we retain the current system, the right to buy remains a crucial route into home ownership. But we must also confront the reality before us. Social housebuilding has struggled to keep pace with the sales of right to buy.

This has resulted in the number of families in temporary accommodation and expanding social housing waiting lists across the country. Our right to buy reforms, notably the new build exemption, will give councils the confidence to get building again. Madam Deputy Speaker, we also refute the accusation that we are doing nothing to ensure that social housing is being used effectively. This government expects social housing landlords to maximise the use of existing homes as well as building more. We have launched a review into how effective social housing providers use their properties, and we will report on its findings later in the year.

Now, regarding the opposition's concerns about the allocation of housing to non-UK nationals, this government does not support restricting social housing based solely to British citizens. Such an approach would be unworkable and it would cut across legal obligations, including obligations relating to EU citizens with settled status in the Equality Act. Eligibility for social housing is already tightly controlled by local council, and if a person's immigration status does not allow them to recourse to public funds, they are not eligible for social homes.

This racist rhetoric has to stop and demonising people who want to work. The vast majority of those allocated social homes in the UK are UK nationals. That is a fact. So I hope that the opposition will withdraw this amendment. Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Prime Minister stood on the steps of number ten, he put building more council homes at the heart of this government's agenda because for far too long successive governments have failed to deliver the homes up and down the country.

We need, whilst simultaneously failing to protect our stock. But we know we can and we must go further. This bill is about bringing an end to the era of social housing homes. It's about protecting the homes that we have, supporting the building of new homes we need. It's about ensuring the system works fairly for those who need it the most. It's about reducing the overreliance on temporary accommodation, which is crippling so many councils up and down the country. Collectively, London councils are spending £5.5 million on temporary accommodation.

This is unsustainable. Madam Deputy Speaker, Up and down the country we need to help and turbocharge. Social housing is not just about a roof over people's heads, it creates strong, connected communities. It enables families to live happily. It enables healthy lives and provides long term sustainable housing. The government is taking and making progress to reverse the decline of social housebuilding, which is represented by 65% increase in social rent completions. In the latest figures from Homes England and across the country, we have.

We are seeing the fact that over 180,000 children are growing up in temporary accommodation. And as many hon. Members have mentioned this afternoon, over 1.3 million people on the housing waiting list. This has a devastating impact on the wellbeing of our children and families who are facing poor conditions, lacking the space to grow. How can we expect those young children to contribute in later life to society, when they don't have a safe place to call their home? This bill is bringing an end to that failure.

This bill creates the crucial step that many families want to see. The same that my family was given many years ago, ensuring that when families face homelessness, when women are fleeing domestic abuse with their children, they are not the ones being evicted but the perpetrator. This bill ensures that we are restricting right to buy sells, and that 100% of those receipts are going back to councils so that they can reinvest that back into their local areas. This bill will ensure that we turbocharge and bring a new lease of life to local council building across the country, working with our councils, our providers, our housing associations and private developers to get this housing right.

With that, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's important that we continue to progress on this bill, and with that, I beg to move your.

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Before I put the question, I need to inform the House that in the event of a division, I pass no comment on whether there will be one or not. Some of the Pass one or not. Some of the Pass readers in both lobbies are currently not in operation. Can I ask all members to follow the ask all members to follow the directions of doorkeepers and Division clerks, and to use the working Pass readers, which I gather have notices on them to record their names? The Parliamentary Digital Service are working hard to restore the remaining pass readers for any divisions tomorrow.

Order. The original question was that the bill be now read a second time, since when an amendment has been proposed as on the Order Paper. The question is that the amendment be made as

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many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. No.
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None Portrait Social Housing Bill [Lords]: Second reading: Katie Lam Amendment:Division.
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Order, Order, order!

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Ayes to the right 77. The notes

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to the left 292. Thank you. The ayes to the right were 77.

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The ayes to the right were 77. The noes to the left 292. So the nose habit. The nose. Have it nose habit. The nose. Have it unlock. The. Question is that the unlock. The. Question is that the bill be now read a second time. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Program motion to be moved formally.

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To move. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, I say aye. I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to motion number three relating to a joint

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number three relating to a joint committee on the draft conversion practices. Bill Minister to move. I beg to move.

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, As many as of that opinion Paper, As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to motion number four relating to the

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number four relating to the move. I think I beg to move. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to motion number five relating to the

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move. I beg to move. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, As many as of that opinion say aye. I of the contrary. No, I

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say aye. I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. I beg to move that this house do now adjourn.

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The question is that this House

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do now adjourn. Remember? Meeting adjourned, I think.

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Meeting adjourned, I think. Point of order, Ellie Chowns. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. And at the end of July, the Prime Minister announced that he was holding cross-party talks on social care. He did not invite the Green Party despite our involvement Green Party despite our involvement in the Casey Commission. Cross-Party talks for the past 18 months. When I expressed my concern
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Gideon Amos Portrait Gideon Amos MP (Taunton and Wellington, Liberal Democrat)
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chemicals. And yes, we are going to need some of that. But that alone need some of that. But that alone would mean one of the most carbon emissions intensive infrastructure investment programs this country investment programs this country has ever seen. But by treating the symptoms, not the cause, these measures risk failure. Indeed. Madam Deputy Speaker. It's time instead Madam Deputy Speaker it's time to tackle the problem where it begins our homes, streets and buildings, the way they have been designed for decades and those that will be designed in the future.

The truth is that England does not lack water. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will be able to point to an awful lot of it this autumn across my constituency. Rather, it lacks the ability or perhaps the will to manage it sustainably where it lands. I will give way, madam.

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First of all, can I commend the Member for bringing this forward? The one thing that perhaps, maybe would help the older gentleman and help government would. For those developers who have a number of projects for housing, there could projects for housing, there could be hundreds of houses being built. Is it not time to ensure that the developers, because of the profit developers, because of the profit margin they're making on the houses, that they pay towards the the, the upgrading of the, of the waste and water management, thereby taking the onus off government and off the

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Minister. The hon. Gentleman is quite right that developers should pay their way. And there's much to do their way. And there's much to do which I will come on to. On average, each roof in England, each house roof in England, receives enough roof in England, receives enough free rainwater to meet all its household's non-potable. That is, non-drinking water needs, including flushing toilets, washing clothes, watering gardens. But instead of that, we send it off at high speed that, we send it off at high speed into the sewage network where it surcharges sewage into our rivers, while at the same time we spend millions of pounds making pure drinking water, pumping it into our homes and flushing that down the toilet around a quarter to a third of drinking water in our homes gets nowhere near being drunk.

In fact, it's all flushed down the drain without a single drop quenching anybody's thirst. It's an appalling and pointless waste of drinking water and of energy. And it means we must respond by investing tens of billions of pounds in reservoirs to hold a bit more rain so we can treat more of it, pump more of it into our homes and yes, flush more of it down the toilet unnecessarily. That is not environmental progress. That is a high, carbon, high, expensive papering over the cracks, high expense papering over the cracks or water system and the water from our homes and highways.

Vast volumes of rainwater is continuing to go straight down the drain as well, mixing with sewage pointlessly, being pumped and treated and pumped and treated, and far too often creating a backwash that sends sewage tumbling into the river tone in my constituency and into rivers and beaches across the country, our wastewater treatment plant can cope with the sewage that's produced. What it can't cope with is millions of litres of rainwater. We add to the sewage before we send it to the wastewater treatment plants.

Too often we respond by investing huge amounts into storage tanks to hold stormwater, so we can pump more of it and treat more of it. But that is not environmental progress. That is high carbon, highly expensive, papering over the cracks or water system. The climate is making the problems worse. And ironically, our addition of rainwater into the mix is making the climate worse. A classic doom loop. As the atmosphere warms, England's winters become wetter, summers drier, with more intensive thunderstorms.

Meanwhile, housing delivery continues at scale, covering land with more impermeable surfaces. Whilst we continue to legally entitled developers to collect new rainwater and add that to the sewerage systems as well, which cannot cope with it, we're quite literally building the problem into existence before our eyes. Contrast this with how we look at energy and deal with energy. We no longer assume that all power has to be generated centrally. Instead, we actively encourage decentralised generation solar panels on roofs. Thanks to my Lib Dem colleague, the hon.

Member for Cheltenham, now to be required on every roof of every new home, batteries and homes, heat pumps replacing distant combustion. And we offer grants to make it happen. On water, we remain stubbornly stuck in the I was going to say, the 20th century. It feels like the 19th century. Other countries have progressed and parts of Belgium. New homes must capture rainwater for beneficial use. No wonder they have achieved the lowest per capita water consumption in Europe, and no doubt the lowest water bills that go with it.

Australia, Germany, Singapore have embedded rainwater harvesting and source controlled drainage into mainstream development. In England, by contrast, we continue to ignore the massive asset value that rainwater is. Even the amendment I proposed to the planning Bill that new homes should capture rainwater to use it and lower residents bills was rejected, I'm sorry to say, by the government, but I can commit, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this issue will not go away because this alternative approach really isn't that radical.

It's all remarkably simple. The simple principle is what's called source control. Capture rain where it falls and use it wisely and return the excess rain to the ground where it fell. Why use it to top up our sewage? Do we love sewage so much? We actually want to make more of it by adding more water to it and creating even more volumes of it. And for all those homes built in earlier centuries where rainwater is directed into the sewer already, why not offer grants to retro split two drains from the one they have at the moment? Lower cost for the consumer, lower water bills, less sewerage, water companies, less water going into less sewage going into our rivers, and less costs for the government and the public and the agencies to cope with this can cut water bills by roughly a third, meaning £225 off of the average household bill.

A household in Taunton and Wellington that catches its own rainwater and takes it out of the sewer would cost, would cut its water bill by a quarter to a third. That's around £225 a year off a £695 bill. Nationally, 28 to 35% gross. That up 29 million households. That's £6.5 billion off people's bills. Imagine what that would do if it was freed up to be

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spent in the economy in other ways. I will, and. I thank him for giving way. I, I

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I thank him for giving way. I, I do confess I am a little confused. There are plenty of places in the country, including in my region, country, including in my region, where we already have a separate where we already have a separate system for sewage and for rainwater runoff. That should keep them separate. And yet over many, many separate. And yet over many, many years we've seen that that has not had the desired effect. And we are still seeing. I'm sorry to say, far too much sewage going into our rivers.

So whilst I recognise the point he is trying to make, I don't think that it's the silver bullet that he suggests. Does he not accept that if we are going to capture more rainwater, the way to do that is building the reservoirs we need.

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As I said at the beginning, we certainly need some reservoirs, and I completely accept that. But as we as I've explained with energy, we as I've explained with energy, we don't assume the only solution is massive, centralised power stations, in the same way that collecting in the same way that collecting water on our roofs in our homes can make a massive contribution. Six make a massive contribution. Six point £6.5 billion worth of contribution back into people's pockets. That's not to be sneezed pockets.

That's not to be sneezed at, done at scale. That's. This approach simultaneously tackles water scarcity, water excesses and carbon emissions. Toilets flush with rainwater, reduced demand for new reservoirs and enable more new development. Soakaways green roofs, property level suds, slow runoff, reducing flood risk and storm overflows. Less pumping and treatment means lower operational carbon, less concrete and excavation means lower embodied carbon. Crucially, decentralised rainwater management delivers these benefits exactly where people experience them. I will.

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. He is showing his usual erudition on these topics. He mentions sustainable drainage systems, which of course can be a very important part of the solutions he outlines. But I find solutions he outlines. But I find that many homeowners in my constituency find that those sustainable drainage systems do not work as intended because they're work as intended because they're not properly designed and maintained, and we don't currently have UN enacted legislation that have UN enacted legislation that means developers are not being held to account.

Does he agree and believe that we need to do more to make sustainable drainage systems

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work effectively? My hon. Friend for Didcot is characteristically right, and I characteristically right, and I will come on to schedule three of the Flood Water Management Act, which he and I tried on several which he and I tried on several occasions to have enacted in the passage of the Planning and Infrastructure Bill. Crucially, decentralised water management delivers the benefits. I listed homes that are more resilient, bills that are lower, streets that flood, less, rivers that have less sewage surcharging into them.

My campaign before I was elected as an MP was to get the river tone designated at French rivers as a bathing water. Working with the friends group, we succeeded. But unless we take action to reduce sewage volumes in the town catchment and around the country, we will not be able to meaningfully reduce our charges of sewage going into those rivers and beaches. Crucially, none of this requires an AI data centre to make it happen. What is required is a shift in mindset, managing rain before it becomes a problem, rather than using it to make a problem, then trying to manage the problem we've created, we can personally do our bit.

My son thinks the enormous water I'm trying to make in my back garden is a Heath Robinson creation. He. Well, he would if he knew what he Tom Morrison is far too young. But following all the regulations is challenging and I'm working on it. But what is really needed is government to take action and regulation in. Three key changes are needed from the government. First, we need to stop designing homes that treat rain as an inconvenience to be sent elsewhere, but rather sent into people's homes and harnessed as the asset and essential natural resource that it is.

Requiring rainwater harvesting in all new homes. Second, government needs to bring schedule three of the Flood and Water Management Act into law. As my hon. Friend pointed out, so that we start to drain more of our drain water in the ground where it falls, and we have a properly regulated system for doing so. And thirdly, government needs to grant a retro splitting of household drains so people can save on their bills and save our rivers at the same time, like our precious stone, which can be spared the sewage.

These drains create, add to and augment. England is about to spend unprecedented sums on water, sewerage, infrastructure. We cannot solely rely on carbon heavy centralised systems. We should finally change our relationship with the rain that falls right on the top of us all. If we want cleaner rivers, secure water supplies, lower emissions and homes fit for a changing climate, the answer is learning to value rain and use it to save us all money where it lands. Emma Hardy.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I genuinely thank the Member for Taunton and Wellington Member for Taunton and Wellington for securing this debate? I really enjoyed listening to his speech, and there was so much agreement and there was so much agreement from this side of the House on everything, pretty much everything everything, pretty much everything he had to say. And he describes what I would refer to more as pre pipe. And this is something that I'm really interested in doing, which is one of the things where you look at exactly as he described, how do we stop rainwater ending up in our sewage system, contributing to often pollution incidents because the system becomes overwhelmed when it's actually rainwater and could be elsewhere.

And he touches on almost one of my favourite things to talk about. And that's nature based solutions, how we can use nature more, how we can create soakaway areas. Sustainable urban drainage is absolutely, absolutely correct. And I'm so passionate about thinking about how we manage water. And I think so many times the conversation when we're talking about, you know, how do we solve problems around pollution? If we manage the water that falls from the sky, we manage the rainwater better. We can help deal with pollution as well as, you know, many other attributes, reservoirs are hugely important, as my hon.

Friend pointed out, and we should absolutely be using those. But that's all part of that wider system is collecting the rainfall, putting it where we want it, rather than it ending up where we don't. And obviously it's for the Department of Housing, Communities and Local Government to talk about building standards. But I can tell you, because I asked them ahead of this debate, that they're reviewing water efficiency standards in the building regulations for New home, and they're considering how to enable water reuse systems, including rainwater and grey water systems, where they're safe, practical and cost effective.

And I know I have mentioned this a few times. I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I share his sort of astonishment, maybe a bit too far, but his concern about the fact that we use drinking water to flush our toilets. But but this is to give the other side of the argument I've had played back to me that this is to do with the rules around. You have to supply drinking water quality to domestic properties. And so it's making sure that if we introduce changes, which I are hopefully not telling things I shouldn't, we are sort of exploring is that how can you guarantee that you don't mix up the sort of water pipes that are going into a home and therefore, you know, cause problems that way? So it's always got to be safety first, which is why the only water that can enter a property, unless it's done as a private individual, setting up their own system has to be drinking, course.
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Emma Hardy Portrait Emma Hardy MP, The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for giving way. And would the Minister agree with me that actually so much progress has been made in regard to rainwater harvesting, not just from Mhclg, but also from within your own department, and not least the landmark report published this March by the Drinking Water Inspectorate, which exactly explored a potential governance framework setting out those standards for non-potable water in domestic settings, but also talking about accreditation standards to ensure that these systems, when we are ready to bring them in, are safe and will be properly maintained.



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I thank my hon. Friend because I was trying to in my head remember what the report was. And so I very much appreciate that that much appreciate that that intervention. But she's absolutely right. It is about how do we we have some of the best drinking water in the whole world. We have incredibly high standards when it comes to the public health of our drinking water. And so that report from the drinking water inspector of looking at how we can do this in a safe way, is something I am really, really keen to explore, really, really keen to explore, because we're quite right.

We are going to be short of drinking water. If we continue at the scale we are into the future. If we use, we start thinking about where we're using it and not using it to flush our toilets, then that feels like a way we can go forward. So I think there's a huge amount of sort of cross cross-party thinking on how we can do that. But it also goes back to that how do we manage water? How do we think about water? Where is it? Where is it falling? And

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he's right. Yes. Thank you for giving way. She's obviously aware of the work of the Labour Rural Research Group. One of Labour Rural Research Group. One of the things we've been talking about is whether there needs to be longer term certainty for Elm schemes, term certainty for Elm schemes, where farmers are trying to invest in proper water management, as she's describing, but they need she's describing, but they need more than three years often to be able to do that. So I wonder whether she'd agree that maybe her department needs to look at how and department needs to look at how and specifically when it comes to water, we could be arranging for Elm schemes to be over a long period of time.



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I thank my hon. Friend. I'm hesitant to agree something that isn't my brief, but I will certainly mention it to the to the certainly mention it to the to the Farming Minister and the hon. Gentleman's right. When we think about water management, we often do talk about reservoirs which are talk about reservoirs which are very, very much needed. And it is does matter and it is important, but so is managing water where it falls. So is thinking about roofs, streets, gardens, farms, developments.

This is why we want a more practical, prevention focussed more practical, prevention focussed approach to water management, capture more of the water, waste less of it and plan developments in a way that looks at local catchments. Because yes.

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Thank you for giving way. One of the things that is going to benefit farmers in my constituency is the £50 million, which is coming £50 million, which is coming through the SFA to allow farms to build more water storage on their land, and that's going to be a huge benefit because we know that food stocks are down this this going into the winter because of the hot summer that we've had. But we also summer that we've had. But we also have an issue with flooding.

And at the moment, schedule three of the Water Management Act, it's not been Water Management Act, it's not been enacted. And it means that the every development has a right to be connected to the drainage system, which increases the amount of flooding that we have. So perhaps we should take that forward with colleagues at Mhclg. I would be

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very, very grateful indeed. I thank my Vince on the point around farm reservoirs. He's. He's around farm reservoirs. He's. He's so correct. Today I held a meeting of the National Drought Group, and we had a focus on agriculture and we had a focus on agriculture and the impact of drought that's had on farmers. And I know we're talking now about potential rain and El Nino and flooding, but drought is Nino and flooding, but drought is still here and in the country. And that was one of the conversations we were having.

So how can we we were having. So how can we support farmers to hold more of the water that comes down from the sky? Because we we're focusing a lot on funding farm reservoirs, but we also need to be thinking about filling farm reservoirs. How do we get them farmers to be able to have them full for the summers that we need with our changing climate and more, you know, more rain in winter, drier in, in, in summer? On the issue of suds, I love suds.

I get very excited about sustainable urban drainage systems. I know I'm shocking you, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I, I, I will at some point maybe try and convince you that they can be really nice. They can be spaces for nature as well. I'm

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not winning here, am I? Yes. Go on. Peter Swallow can I simply say that I completely agree with her? that I completely agree with her? There are many suds in Bracknell Forest that have been delivered as part of alternative natural green part of alternative natural green space, and they create lovely nature corridors in our community.

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And I just want to put that on record. I think this is like Geeks unite now, aren't we on this? Like we now, aren't we on this? Like we love ourselves. But yes, absolutely they are brilliant. But he's quite right. That point around maintenance has been raised a few times before because it's OK to build them. And I actually think most of building designed in a very effective way. But that question of maintenance and how do we make sure that the ones that are built are maintained? Who's responsible, of

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course, who's responsible as well? Gideon Amos. Thank you, thank you. I'm

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Thank you, thank you. I'm grateful to Minister. Briefly, I just want to make the observation. When I trained as an architect, I had a whole series of regulations about drains. How, why, what the diameters were, what the gradients diameters were, what the gradients were. Everything has to be followed. Suds. No such regulations. One is regulated, the other is all down to policy. And I. And I think that, you know, as many members have said, we need to proper regulation for suds because, you know, things will go wrong if we don't get that schedule three or similar legislation in onto the statute book.

In my opinion, Minister.

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I thank you, gentlemen, intervention and for the expertise that he brings to this House from his previous occupation. And I think this is one of the things we're trying to sort of work through with industry, working with through with industry, working with Mhclg, looking together, because we all agree that suds are a really good thing, where they may be not good thing, where they may be not being as effective is around the maintenance issue and who is responsible and who pays to maintain them.

So they're the kind maintain them. So they're the kind of things that we're we're thinking about. But it goes back to that point I made earlier about when we're thinking about planning and we're thinking about areas, are we thinking about the management of water in an area? And with our changing climate going from drought to flood, it's like, how are we thinking about where do we want the water? And I think it's a slightly different, nuanced conversation to say, you know, when it floods, where do we want the water to go when it's drought? Where are we going to get the water from? It's, it's, it's thinking about it sort of more holistically in a way perhaps we haven't done previously.

When we thought about each point in in isolation.

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I'm grateful. In January last year. Storm Chandra caused devastation

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Storm Chandra caused devastation in East Devon. There was significant flooding in in Ottery Saint Mary. Does she think that besides the attenuation ponds and the suds, that people should also the suds, that people should also be encouraged to store water in their own gardens using such things

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as water butts? Absolutely. I think the more we can all do collectively, the better. I mean, we're coming up to flood action within the week beginning the 12th of October, when I'll be calling on every single member in this House to do what they can to get the message out to their constituents about being prepared and how we can all collectively play our part together in what could be a quite a challenging, challenging winter, but on sort of sustainable urban drainage.

The National Planning Policy Framework requires all new developments to incorporate suds designed and maintained in accordance with national standards. So there are some new national standards, and the hierarchy within these standards prioritises collecting rainwater for non-potable uses. And we're also committed to that better joined up water planning. So decisions on housing, drainage, water supply and wastewater taken together. So growth is supported in the right places and communities are better protected. So in conclusion, I've really enjoyed this debate and talking about some of my favourite things, which is natural flood management, suds, rainwater, water management in a catchment.

It sort of ticked all my favourite boxes. So managing rainwater where it falls is practical, local and important can help households use less water mains water, reduce pressure on sewage, improve drainage, support flood resilience and make new developments more sustainable. That is why this government continues to support better management of rainwater. Our water system faces significant challenges, but this government is taking action cleaning up rivers, tackling pollution at source, holding water companies to account and improving resilience to floods and droughts, and securing investment needed for the future through reform, investment and stronger regulation.

We are rebuilding public trust and creating a water system that works for people, the environment and our this.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion, say I. The
This debate has concluded
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