Commons Chamber

Thursday 12th February 2026

(began 1 day, 17 hours ago)

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None Portrait Q10. What steps her Department is taking to help improve rural transport connections. (907844)
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being able to access work, education and opportunity. That's why the Bus Services Act gives local leaders real control to plan
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Brian Mathew Portrait Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)
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for upgrading the railway through Melksham with a new passing loop, unlocking capacity for an hourly passenger service, increased passenger service, increased freight movements and improved network resilience when other lines are closed. For Devizes, the study are closed. For Devizes, the study highlights how the proposed gateway station would deliver economic growth for the town and boost growth for the town and boost connectivity for towns and villages along the Kennet Valley. Would the Minister.

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Or, in fairness, one of us is going to sit down? It's not going going to sit down? It's not going to be me. Can I just say it's too long a question? I've got all your colleagues to get in. They're going to be upset. I'm sure the

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to be upset. I'm sure the minister's got a good idea of what the question was. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I thank the hon. Member for his thank the hon. Member for his important question. I'm aware of both the Bath and Wiltshire Metro scheme and the Devizes Gateway project. While there are no specific plans currently to deliver on these aspirations, we would encourage both him and local stakeholders, including local authorities, GWR and Network Rail, to continue to work together in to continue to work together in developing these plans, including sourcing funding opportunities, and I'm sure the hon.

Gentleman will play his part as they do so. play his part as they do so.
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Chris Ward Portrait Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Prime Minister updated the House on further action the government is taking. He confirmed that the government will bring forward legislation to ensure that peerages can be removed from disgraced peers, and that Peter Mandelson will be and that Peter Mandelson will be removed from the list of privy councillors. He also explained how we have changed the process for the we have changed the process for the relevant direct ministerial appointments, including politically appointed diplomatic roles, and my appointed diplomatic roles, and my right hon.

Friend also set out other areas in which we recognise the need to go further, including around tightening, transparency and lobbying. In that statement, my right hon. Friend also set out how the government was responding to the Humble Address motion, and I'm pleased to provide further update to the House today. Mr. speaker, the government will comply fully and publish documents as soon as possible. As I said in this House last week, we welcome both the principle and content of that motion, and we will deliver on it as soon as we can.

As such, government departments have been instructed to retain any material which may be relevant. And work is underway to identify documents which fall within scope of the motion. We will do as we will do so as soon as possible. When the House returns from recess. In line with the motion passed by, this House, where the government considers documents may be prejudicial to UK national security or international relations, the Cabinet Office will refer this material to the Independent Intelligence and Security Committee.

The Prime Minister has written to the ISC, and senior officials have met with the committee to discuss what the RSC requires in order to fulfil this role. Full resources, as I said in the House last week, will be made available to ensure that process happens and we will work with the committee to explain the Cabinet Office's process for providing material relating to national security or international relations. The government is very grateful to the ISC for their work, and commits to full engagement with them to ensure timely and effective release.

The House will also be aware of the statement from the Metropolitan Police regarding the ongoing police investigation. Now, that statement made clear, quite rightly, Mr. Speaker, and I quote, that the process to decide which documents should be published ultimately remains a matter for Parliament. That is absolutely right. We agree. And but as you would expect, the government rightly does not wish to release anything that might undermine an ongoing police investigation. And as such, we are working with the police as they conduct their inquiries to manage this.

Mr. speaker, I think that is the right way forward, and I hope the House and you will agree. Mr. speaker, in conclusion, the government continues to take this matter incredibly seriously. And given the nature of the issues at stake and the scope of material in play, we will comply as fully as as we will comply fully and deliver this as quickly and transparently as possible. The government will keep the House updated as it does so, and my right hon. Friend, the Chief Secretary to Prime Minister will publish a written ministerial

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statement later today. No, you brought me into it, I

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No, you brought me into it, I didn't Tottenham just to say that the Intelligence Committee is the Intelligence Committee is private and independent, and therefore I wouldn't like to see that they were blocked from that they were blocked from information because it would not affect any police investigation, because that information wouldn't because that information wouldn't go into the public arena. So I just want to be aware of that. And can I thank the Minister for coming on? Something as important as this isn't personally good enough to me.

I think it should have been brought to the house. All sides are interesting and I think it's right. This should be informed personally. So I'm really pleased. I'm sorry. He's got the short straw. Thank you sir. Yeah. Christine. Yeah. sir. Yeah. Christine. Yeah.
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Alex Burghart Portrait Alex Burghart MP (Brentwood and Ongar, Conservative)
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this urgent question, without which hon. Members would not have had a chance to question Ministers before chance to question Ministers before recess. And, you know, the House obviously rises for recess, having received very little in the way of information. So it's very important that we hear from the Minister today so that we can try and have some confidence in the process some confidence in the process that's going forward. And simply put, the purpose of our question today is to try and elicit from the today is to try and elicit from the government a commitment to give the House a timetable and also to confirm, as I think the Minister may have done, that it intends to comply fully with the language in the Humble Address.

And I say that, Mr. Speaker, because there has been briefing to the press from government sources this week that the government might try to reinterpret the address in some way with that to it. For the avoidance of doubt, were that to happen, the government would have to return to this House for another vote. Last week, the Prime Minister told us the process would have integrity because it was being led by the Cabinet secretary, and that any criticism or denigration of the Cabinet Secretary would not be right.

This week, the political forces in number ten have been briefing that Sir Chris Wormald is to be replaced. What a turnaround. So will the Minister reassure the House that any change in the Cabinet Secretary will not delay disclosure or publication of the documents which the House has required? There are a number of further questions that I put to the Minister, Mr. Speaker. First, has the government completed its scoping exercise, and if not, by when does it intend to do so? Second, where the government proposes to release material to the Intelligence and Security Committee rather than directly to the House, will it provide public updates to the House that this has been done? Third, in respect of documents withheld at the request of the Metropolitan Police, will the government tell us the precise legal mechanism being relied upon and commit to publish these documents in full when the police no longer request them to be withheld? Fourth, will Ministers publish a Keeling schedule style register of withheld or delayed documents setting out the category, the reason for non-disclosure and the expected release date for each.

There are precedents for this fifth. At the despatch box last week, the Minister told me he would write to myself and the Member for Skipton about the Palantir contract. He's not yet done, so please will he confirm that he will this week? Last, and separately, will the Minister commit to publishing all documentation relating to the nomination of Matthew Doyle as a peer? This is now a matter of acute public interest, and I will sit down. Mr. speaker, the Minister will appreciate that confidence in

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this government's integrity is very low. I hope he will comply in full. Minister.

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Can I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that? Let me try and rattle through those questions. rattle through those questions. Firstly, and most importantly, we will comply fully. Make that clear in the House. So the government accepted both the principle and content of the motion will comply fully on it. There is a large. This
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Chris Ward Portrait Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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fully on it. There is a large. This is this touches on the scoping question. There is obviously a large amount of material potentially in play here, much broader than other humble addresses. That's not a criticism. That's just a factual observation of how long it's going to take to get through this to the scoping has begun and we are working with the Cabinet Office is working through that scoping material, as I will update the House as soon as I can with furthermore, we hope to publish the first tranche of this when the House comes back from recess.

But as I say, that's that. That is being worked through. On scoping the conversations with the Metropolitan Police, as I say, are absolutely, as the speaker pointed out, have the have the primacy of this place at heart. But we also, as you would expect, not want to prejudice ongoing police investigations. We are just working our way through that. With regard to the Cabinet Secretary that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, obviously, it wouldn't be appropriate for a Cabinet Office Minister to talk about the Cabinet secretary or individual or department.

Well, thankfully, I'm no longer an advisor and I'm a Cabinet Office Minister, so I, I it would not be appropriate. It would not be appropriate for Cabinet Office Minister to talk about to talk about the Cabinet Secretary. But let me, let me reassure the House that the Cabinet Office is working hard on this. It is working diligently to do so. That process is ongoing. So any speculation around that does not affect the process that that is that is going through on the right hon.

Gentleman mentioned this. I did commit to write to him. I have spoken to officials about that. I promise we will. We will get that to him. Obviously, there was an urgent question on this as well. I think that the Mod took that updated, but I promise I will come back. I will come back to him on that. And finally he touched on Lord Doyle. Obviously, that is outside the scope of this Humble Address and outside the scope of their papers. So the urgent question on that does not, does not touch upon that.
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Chris Ward Portrait Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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about how lobbying, how how transparency of our politics is carried out, because our politics, this shouldn't be a political point, because this is all governments and all parties at different points. Our politics is at a low point in public trust at the moment. We need to rebuild that. Well, whose fault was that? If I was you, I wouldn't be shouting that, to be honest, after the last 14 years.

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But odd. Odd. None of us is going to sit down. It's not going to be me. Don't do it. I don't need these side comments. They are coming more often. You know a coming more often. You know a frontbencher more restraint is required from you. As an ex military officer, I expect so much military officer, I expect so much better. Come on. Oh.

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I'm sorry. Just yes. Sorry. But in his specific the Chief Secretary set those out on Monday. Further details will come forward and we

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will tighten transparency regulations as well. Richard Foord. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should say, first up, that I respect enormously the right hon. Member for The Wrekin, but I do disagree for The Wrekin, but I do disagree with him about the independence of the Intelligence and Security Committee. It is very much a Committee. It is very much a committee of this House, and it is independent as such. But the ISC is awaiting receipt of papers from the
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Chris Ward Portrait Chris Ward MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Labour)
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Yeah. Of course. Yes, I do agree. And as I say, I said in my initial reply, we expect to be able to start publishing this material as start publishing this material as soon as possible after the recess, and I hope we can do that as quickly as we can. But just on the broader points you made about public confidence, I think this is an essential point of it, and it's why I've tried to emphasise and indeed last week in the debate, as heated as it occasionally got, that we want to comply with this and we want to get to the bottom of this.

There's no one on this side that doesn't want to get to the bottom of the lies, Mandelson told. And and the problems that that led to. And there is a matter of broader public confidence and trust. And we need to demonstrate that this House is not reflected by the axe of Mandelson et al. But it is a broader house of doing public good and public service. And I think this is an important part of

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getting to that. Well. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The motion passed by the House requires the government to provide requires the government to provide details of any payments made to Lord Mandelson. There's no national Lord Mandelson. There's no national security or international relations issue in doing so. So will the Minister tell the House now, how much money did Mandelson get and much money did Mandelson get and what's the government doing to get it back? Mr.

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it back? Mr. The, the I'm sorry. I think he's referring to severance pay. You see, I think the Foreign Office is providing an update on this. That isn't something I'm afraid I can provide an answer to. provide an answer to.
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Jeremy Wright Portrait Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
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Grateful to you for calling me, and I apologise. I missed the Minister's opening remarks, but I did hear hear him endorse the integrity of the ISC. And can I entirely agree with that? I think it's very important that I say from these benches, just as my committee these benches, just as my committee colleague from the Liberal Democrat benches, that we have full confidence in the integrity of the Labour members of the ISC to do the job that the House has commissioned us to do. But can I put something to him as to the problems the government now has, seems to me that the potential problems the government has in complying with the handle address our, first of all, potentially in the volume of material that it may cover, and secondly, in what the Metropolitan Police wish us to hold back for the purposes of their investigation in relation to the first.

Does he agree, as my right hon. Friend put to him, that if the government seeks to moderate the terms of the Humble Address in any way to take account of that volume, it has come back to the House for its consent to do so. And does he agree in relation to the material? The Metropolitan Police may be concerned about that, because that material will not be made public if it is submitted to the ISC. There is no reason to slow down the process of referral of documents to my committee, simply because of concerns the police may have that if made public, that material may

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prejudice a future trial. Minister. Yes, I think he. Firstly, can I

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Yes, I think he. Firstly, can I completely endorse the point he made at the beginning about the independence and integrity of the ISC? But I think he identifies two very fair points, by the way, and I say that not as a reason, you know, say that not as a reason, you know, not to comply. It's actually that is just the reality of the complexity of what of what we're dealing with. The volume, as I say,
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Zubir Ahmed Portrait Dr Zubir Ahmed MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care (Glasgow South West, Labour)
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reversed a decade of cuts to community pharmacy with the biggest uplift for the sector in years frozen prescription charges to help our constituents with the cost of living. And women can now get the morning after pill free of charge morning after pill free of charge across the country. Earlier this week, I spoke to the National Pharmacy Association's winter reception to pay tribute to the reception to pay tribute to the work and to assure them that I have their back, as does my hon. Friend, the Minister of State for care.

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue of payments made via pharmacy. First, as he knows, pharmacy contractors receive a monthly fixed payment if they meet certain requirements. We agreed to reduce the claim window in conjunction with the Community Pharmacy England as part of our deal for 20 2526 to introduce a new pharmacy. First fixed first payment of £500. This is supported a broader range of pharmacies and has meant more pharmacies have become eligible for payments. We are in discussions with Community Pharmacy England to consider where improvements to the claiming process can be made, to address concerns raised by contractors and to aim for a more consistent approach for numeration.

And we will consult with Community Pharmacy England on the contractual framework for next year shortly. There are also, of course, Mr Speaker relation issues relating to contractors being suspended from providing pharmacy first, which are also for separate consideration. Where there are concerns raised, NHS England can suspend individual contractors from providing the service pending a full investigation. There are a number of reasons why this might be necessary, but these measures are there first and foremost, as the House will appreciate, to protect patient safety.

Mr. speaker, I am a clinician, as is the hon. Gentleman opposite. I am sure he will agree with me that patient safety should be at the forefront of everything we do. And finally, Mr. Speaker. Funding for the core community pharmaceutical contractual. Net framework has been increased to over £3 billion, the largest uplift of any part of the NHS in the last two years. As part of this year's contractual framework, we have agreed to keep the current cost control mechanism linked to pharmacy first that we inherited from the previous government to ensure the money is spent within

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that envelope. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Luke Evans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and it's

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and it's a regret that I've had to summon the Minister here to answer questions and surprise, surprise, a UQ.

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UQ. Quite something. I grant an urgent question. I think, you know, I would I would think about the language you choose. Think yourself

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language you choose. Think yourself that we've given you something. I, of course, withdraw that and
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Luke Evans Portrait Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)
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>> I, of course, withdraw that and say thank you to the speaker for summoning him on my behalf, because it does seem to have the desired effect of the PQs that were outstanding have now, strangely enough, been answered this morning. But I hope to get some clarity. And this is really important, because the issue is simply explained by the chair of the National Pharmacies Association. I quote this work was done. Patients were treated, the NHS benefited, yet payments are being withheld on a technicality.

What makes this worse is that many pharmacies don't even realise that some of the money is missing. The quote goes on. Statements appear successful, yet pharmacy first payments are absent. Contractors are only discovering the issue after the window is closed when it's already too late. So could the Minister tell the House how many pharmacies the government think are impacted? What is the total value of the outstanding payments, and what steps the government is taking to rectify this? And would it consider a late payment mechanism to help solve the issue? Because, Mr.

Speaker, there's a wider issue concern here because payments are administered by the NHS Business Service Authority. Now, the chair of the MCA labelled the behaviour from the NHS, NHS, BSA as outrageous. This already follows repeat concerns about NHS performance, including multiple serious delays in NHS pension processing and several uqs on the floor of this House. So does the Minister still retain confidence in NHS BSA and given the ongoing concerns from multiple fields, will the Minister commission a review to the operational performance of the entire NHS? BSA community pharmacies are already under intense pressure from this government.

The tax rises on employment, tax rises on business rates, increase in costs and now they appear not to be being paid for work already done. I hope the

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Minister will act quickly to put this right. Minister. Mr. speaker, as the hon.

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Mr. speaker, as the hon. Gentleman will know or should know, the current remuneration method was agreed in conjunction with the agreed in conjunction with the sector. The adjustment was agreed with the sector representative body, Community Pharmacy England. Advance Community Pharmacy England. Advance notice of the change. Advance notice of the change was provided to those contractors by letter and
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Zubir Ahmed Portrait Dr Zubir Ahmed MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care (Glasgow South West, Labour)
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in an article published by the NHS Business Services Authority in May 2025. In addition, Community Pharmacy England know that should this be a priority issue for them to negotiate in the next contract, we will take that on board and use that as an option. And if I could also say to the hon. Gentleman, there are of course, always extenuating circumstances such as perhaps it not working. And officials have reassured me that following discussions with the Community Pharmacy England, we have introduced specific provisions in the drug tariff that will allow pharmacy contractors to receive payment for claims that were delayed to it.

Issues outside of this control, and I can appreciate why the hon. Gentleman wants to expand the remit of the of the UQ across primary care. But let me tell him I know he had neck surgery recently. I didn't realise they put a brass neck on him as well when they did it. Because. Because I'm afraid. Because I'm afraid he knows what kind of NHS decline and decay that he presided over and his government presided over over the last 15 years, primary care, where there were people wandering around asking for GPS.

And this the party opposite left GPS on the scrap heap, unemployed. This government, when it came into office, made sure.

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Sorry, sorry. Come on. One of us has got to sit down. It's not going to be a Minister. Please, can we just have a little bit more calm? Mims, you've come in. You're the supporting Minister, our Secretary of State. I want you to set the example. Not be the naughty one. Please, Minister.

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one. Please, Minister. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And as I was saying, while Speaker. And as I was saying, while they left GPS on the scrap heap, this government made sure.

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We're going to learn the rules as well. Between. It's absolutely not Luke Evans I've granted this to not Luke Evans I've granted this to you quite rightly. I wanted your question to be heard by the Minister. I didn't want any interruption. I expect you to listen to the answer without interruption. Please, Minister.

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interruption. Please, Minister. Mr. speaker, this government takes our responsibilities in providing an effective 21st century providing an effective 21st century primary care NHS free at the point of care. That is why when we came into power, we made sure that pharmacy sector has the largest uplift in any part of the NHS in the last two years, £3.1 billion. And to support primary care further, we made sure those GPS that couldn't find employment found it under this Labour government. It is only this government that can modernise the NHS, make it free at the point of care and make sure it is a high quality service going forward.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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remaining stages of the Universal Credit. Removal of two child limit bill Tuesday, the 24th of February, an opposition day in the name of an opposition day in the name of the Liberal Democrats, subject to be announced, followed by a debate on a motion relating to the charter on a motion relating to the charter for Budget Responsibility Wednesday, the 25th of February. A general debate on Ukraine. Thursday the debate on Ukraine. Thursday the 26th of February, a general debate on Saint David's Day and Welsh affairs, followed by general debate on government support for bereaved children.

The subjects for these debates was determined by the Backbench Business Committee Friday the 27th of February. The House will not be sitting the provisional business for the week beginning the 2nd of March includes Monday the 2nd of March. Second Reading of the representation of the people's Bill. Tuesday the 3rd of March. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will make a spring statement followed by consideration of Lords amendments Wednesday, the 4th of March estimates day for the allotted day, and at 7 p.m.

the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates. Thursday, the 5th of March. Proceedings on the supply and appropriation, Anticipation and Adjustments number two Bill, followed by a general debate on contributions of Commonwealth troops in the First World War, followed by a debate on a motion on the future of palliative care. The subject for these debates, determined by the Backbench Business Committee. And on Friday the 6th of March, the House will not be sitting. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, the House will no doubt be interested in recess dates going forward.

Members may also wish to know that, subject to the progress of business and further to the dates that have already been announced, the House will rise for the summer recess at the close of business on Thursday, the 16th of July 2026, and return on Tuesday, the 1st of September 2026. The House will then rise for the conference recess at the close of business on Tuesday, the 15th of September 2026, and return on Monday, the 12th of October 2026.

And the House will rise for the Christmas recess at the close of business on Thursday, the 17th of December 2026, and return on Monday,

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the 4th of January, 2027. Well, the 1st of September does clash with my birthday. We can

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clash with my birthday. We can discuss that later. Shadow Lee Anderson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And may I start by thanking the Leader of the House on behalf of Leader of the House on behalf of all members, I'm sure for giving us those recess dates will be very those recess dates will be very widely welcomed. Today is the birthday of Abraham Lincoln,
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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perhaps the greatest of all US presidents. And so perhaps a fitting moment to talk a little bit about public service. May I start about public service. May I start by congratulating the chaplain, the Reverend Mark Birch, on his new job Reverend Mark Birch, on his new job at Westminster Abbey and in welcoming his successor, the Venerable Andrew Hillier, as Venerable Andrew Hillier, as chaplain to the House of Commons. We thank them for their service. I We thank them for their service.

I also note, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the International Olympic Committee has banned a Ukrainian athlete from wearing a helmet of remembrance for his fellow athletes killed by Russia. Talk about public service, Madam Deputy Speaker. Otherwise, the news has once again been filled by a succession of the most appalling misjudgements by the Prime Minister. These include decisions by him to ignore both public and private advice and appoint not one, but two men with continuing connections to convicted paedophiles to the House of Lords.

It's been confirmed today that the Prime Minister was aware that his nominee, Matthew Boyle, had campaigned for a man charged with distributing indecent images of children, two months before the Prime Minister appointed him. The fallout from the Mandelson scandal so far has included the departures of the Prime Minister's chief of staff and his head of communications, one after 18 months, the other after just a few weeks in post. Now we have the leaked news that the Prime Minister's own personal choice of Cabinet secretary is being forced to step down after barely a year in post, as they say at the BBC, deputy heads must roll.

Of course, no government is free from scandal. Goodness knows, I can say that from personal experience. Certainly not the previous ones, as the House will know well. But let there be no deflection or fudge on this matter. There has not been anything to compare with this catalogue of personal misjudgements by a Prime Minister for perhaps 60 years. Every sitting day the chaplain leads this House in prayer for public service that we may, and I quote as a House, never lead the nation wrongly through love of power, desire to please or unworthy ideals, but lay aside all private interests and prejudice.

Every member of this House knows those words, but that is precisely what these people have failed to do. That said, Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope I may end on a positive note with a truly uplifting story from this week. Some years ago, my constituents, Sam and Emily Stables, set up a brilliant charity called We Are Farming Minds in Herefordshire, dedicated to supporting farmers struggling with poor mental health. Sam's, a sheep farmer himself, knows only too well from personal experience how immensely difficult, stressful and lonely life can be on a farm.

Still more, given all the recent troubles farmers have had to endure, including outbreaks of TB and other diseases, a dysfunctional farm, payment systems, increasingly burdensome regulations and of course, most recently, the farm tax. On average, a farmer commits suicide every week in this country. But on Monday, Sam embarked on a walk of hope from Ross on Wye to London to support Yellow wellies, Mind Your Head Week and greater public awareness of mental health in the farming community. By my calculations, he is coming through the Chilterns right about now.

Madam Deputy Speaker heading for High Wycombe. With luck. I should find him this afternoon on the trail around Beaconsfield. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is what real public service looks like. Let's all take this opportunity to send our deep thanks to Sam and Emily, and to their volunteers and supporters for the extraordinary work they do here.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Leader. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. First of all, may I. Say that I'm sure that the thoughts of the whole sure that the thoughts of the whole House are with the two children stabbed in a horrific attack at stabbed in a horrific attack at Kingsbury High School in Brent. And my heart. And I'm sure the heart of the whole house goes out to those affected by this tragedy. Also, I send my condolences to those affected by the horrific attack in Tumbler Ridge in Canada.

And again, the thoughts of the whole house will be with the people of Tumbler Ridge as they mourn their families, friends and loved ones. And we wish all of those injured a speedy recovery. I join with the shadow Leader of the House in welcoming to the House the venerable Andrew Hillier, who has been appointed as the new Speaker's Chaplain. And as he said, I want to thank the outgoing chaplain, the Reverend Mark Birch, for the support that he provided to everyone across the community, whether or not they were people of faith or not.

I also want to mark this week as National Apprenticeship Week. Apprenticeships give young people real experience, real prospects and a real route into good careers, and this government is committed to delivering 50,000 more apprentices for young people, backed by the Skills and Growth Levy. And it is National Apprenticeship Week and therefore appropriate if I draw members attention to the ambition set out in the restoration and renewal of the Palace of Westminster report, which was published last week to support 1000 apprenticeships and traineeships, in addition to the thousands of full time roles required to deliver the works.

And I would encourage members, whatever their view, on the way forward for this for Parliament, I would encourage them, if they have not already done so, to attend briefings by the R and R client team, and to read the report in full. And finally, before I turn to the remarks of the hon. Gentleman, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I wish all members and yourself an enjoyable recess. I hope that members get some time to spend with their families and with their constituents, and always remember that it's Pancake Day, so I wish them very well in that regard.

Let me turn to the remarks of the shadow leader, and I very much join him in congratulating and wishing Sam Stables well. Very keen farming campaigner and knowing the hon. Gentleman's constituency, Sam will have needed his wellies, wellies, whatever the colour, given the amount of water which is fallen in that particular area, I understand donations have come in from far and wide, including from the Prince of Wales. And I just want to say in supporting Sam that the government, I believe, is stepping up and playing their part.

We are supporting farmers access to specialist mental health services through funding of the farmer welfare grant, and then, more widely than that, doing all that we can to invest in sustainable farming. But I do wish Sam all the very best indeed. Let me now turn to the remarks of the hon. Gentleman on the what has happened in the last couple of weeks, and let me do that without any deflection or fudge, as he says. First of all, Matthew Doyle has had the Labour whip withdrawn, the Labour Party has started an investigation and it is right that we be allowed to that that takes place with regard to the Cabinet Secretary, I'm not going to enter into speculation about that, but we read what we read and then let me turn to the wider issue of standards in public life, because I absolutely agree with them.

There can be no prevarication on these matters. And the my hon. Friend, the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister gave a statement to this House on Monday setting out the action that we are taking. Since entering government, we have delivered on our manifesto promises to strengthen the role of the independent adviser and set up the Ethics and Integrity Commission. We're also publishing Ministers interest, gifts and hospitality, and more frequently, we're changing the process for relevant direct ministerial appointments, including politically appointed diplomatic roles.

But we understand, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we need to go further, and we're working with the newly established Ethics and Integrity Commission to make sure that we do reach the highest possible standards in life. And let me just leave the house with this remark, Madam Deputy Speaker, because it has been a difficult time for us all, not least for the Prime Minister himself. I regard the Prime Minister as a man of integrity. I regard him as a man of public service.

And when someone stands up and says that they got it wrong and that they regret what has happened, we should take that at face value, and we should redouble our efforts to make sure that going forward, public, public life and public standards are even higher

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than they currently are. Thank you, Madam Speaker. This

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. This week is heart week. Hence the badge on my lapel. Instead of the wolves badge that I normally wear. And badge that I normally wear. And last Saturday I was with the Wolverhampton, Bilston and District Trade Union Council handing out information to Passers-by in Wolverhampton city centre about joining a trade union. Would the Leader of the House please join me
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the leader in particular for mentioning the stabbing at for mentioning the stabbing at Kingsbury High School. The good news is that the two children who were stabbed are in a stable were stabbed are in a stable condition, and the suspect has now been charged with multiple charges, been charged with multiple charges, including attempted murder. And the police investigation is ongoing and we can't comment on it any further. In addition, I also would like to thank the hon.

Member for Edinburgh West for stepping into the breach when the previous debate that the Backbench Business Committee had allocated for Thursday, the 26th of February, was withdrawn. So I thank her for doing that at very short notice. As the leader has mentioned, estimates day debates come up on the 4th of March. We are open for business for applications by a week tomorrow, and obviously we'll then be deciding which which debates will be allocated time. The business in Westminster Hall when we return on the 24th of February, there'll be a debate on government support for healthcare systems in Gaza.

On Thursday, the 26th of February. Debate on eating disorders for for the Awareness Week 2026, followed by a debate on the impact of VAT on independent faith schools. On the 3rd of March, there'll be a debate on strengthening community cohesion, and on the 5th of March, a debate on the importance of local museums, followed by a debate on World Book Day. Now Madam Deputy Speaker. When we return on the 23rd of February, this will be the third anniversary of the hunger strike by Shahid Beheshti outside the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

He has had terrible privations as a result of this hunger strike, and no Foreign Office Minister has even had the courtesy to visit him in either the previous government or the current government. Given the circumstances. In Iran, with more than 30,000 civilians being murdered by the tyrannical regime, he has called for the proscription of the IRGC for the last three years. So could the the Leader of the House arrange for a Minister to at least meet Vahid so that he can convey his reasons for carrying out this hunger strike?
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As my hon. Friend points out, sport As my hon. Friend points out, sport is an important economic part of our local communities, which is there is a commitment to investing in in such a way. And this government is committed to improving transport in the North. And I know the Transport Secretary is working closely with West Yorkshire Mayor to ensure that we deliver a mass transport system. Should my hon. Friend seek a Westminster Hall debate, I'm sure colleagues from his region may wish to join him in that.

But if he

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seeks a request with a Minister, then I will facilitate that. That is the end of business

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That is the end of business questions. Those wishing to leave the chamber should do so now, quietly and quickly. We'll come to quietly and quickly. We'll come to the Select Committee statement the Select Committee statement shortly. I'll come to the Select Committee statement on behalf of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee. Florence Eshalomi will speak for up to ten minutes, during which no interventions may be taken. At the conclusion of a statement, I will call members to ask questions on the subject of the statement.

These the subject of the statement. These should be brief questions and not full speeches. Can I emphasise that questions should be directed to the Select Committee chair and not the relevant government Minister? Frontbenchers may take part in Frontbenchers may take part in questioning. I call Florence Eshalomi.
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Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
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Government Select Committee published our fourth report, which looks at the conditions of homes in looks at the conditions of homes in the social rented sector. This is the first in our series of outputs as part of our broader inquiry into as part of our broader inquiry into the conditions of homes, we've also been looking at the conditions of homes in the temporary accommodation in the private rented accommodation in the private rented sector, and hope to publish our report later on. But for this we are focusing on social housing.

are focusing on social housing. Over the last 25 years, there's been substantial progress at improving the condition of social homes. In 2001, the last Labour government introduced the Decent Homes Programme to address the large backlog of disrepair that had built up in council homes. They set a target to bring all social homes up to a decent standard by 2010. To achieve this. Registered providers were given nine years to bring their homes to a minimum standard. This target was ultimately missed, but the programme was not without its success.

Over 1 million homes were improved by works carried out on this programme. By April 2020, 2009. The rate of homes that fail to meet decency had fallen down to 14.5%, down from just 40% at the start of the decade. So a significant improvement progress at bringing social homes up to minimum standards has continued to be under successive governments at a slower pace. However, as our report states, progress has now stalled with very little improvement since the pandemic. The latest findings from the English Housing Survey estimated that around 430 social homes fail to meet the basic standards of decency.

Overcrowding continues to rise. Our report highlights how energy prices means that tenants struggle to heat their homes sufficiently in the winter. Cold homes and overcrowding can exacerbate hazards like damp. Two thirds of social homes are at the highest risk of overheating during the summer months. These are really concerning trends. The government has been clear that it wants to deliver transformational and lasting change to the quality and safety of social homes. Over the next decade, the government has made good progress following recent announcements.

Registered providers have more certainty over the standards they are expected to meet and more resources. Now, many members across this chamber will remember the tragic case of Awaab Ishak, who died aged two from severe respiratory conditions caused by prolonged exposure to mould in his parents homes. During his short life, Awaab had reoccurring cold symptoms and respiratory tract infections, and he had to visit the GP surgery than most children. Arabs parents reported their mould to their housing association in 2017, before Awaab was born.

The coroner's report states that no action was taken to address the mould before Awaab died in December 2020, at which point the mould was then present in every single room. During our inquiry, we heard from one mother whose 18 month old baby started getting chest infections because of the black mould behind her bed. The mould spread everywhere but complaining got her nowhere. Awaab's Law is now being rolled out across social housing, giving tenants the ability to take legal action against their social landlords if they fail to remove the hazards in a timely way.

On balance, we thought that the government's decision to introduce Awaab's Law in phases, starting with the most dangerous flats, was the right one. However, tenants and housing providers would benefit from a clearer timeline of when the next phase of Awaab's Law will apply, and our report calls for the government to set this out. Now. For many residents, Madam Deputy Speaker taken legal action against your landlord is not a decision they want to take, and will be keeping a close eye on effectiveness of Awaab's Law to ensure it delivers meaningful protection to tenants, especially some of the most vulnerable tenants.

By 2030, social landlords will need to make sure that their homes comply with new energy minimum efficiency standards, and this is a positive step. Although the pace of retrofits will need to accelerate if the sector is going to upgrade the remaining homes by 2030. Under the official definition of fuel poverty, a household is not considered to be fuel poor if their home has an EPC rating band C or above. However, those living in A homes that comply with the new minimum standards may still struggle to heat their home sufficiently if their energy prices are too long.

So our report calls on the government in its forthcoming fuel strategy, to amend the definition of fuel poverty to reflect this. Otherwise, the committee is concerned that the new energy efficiency standards, while necessary, will provide false assurances to tenants who are living in multiple cold homes. We welcome the government's new Decent Homes Standard today standard was last updated in 2006, and it is in desperate need of reform. Shockingly, almost 430,000 430,000 homes still failed to meet the basic standards 25 years after this was introduced, the government plans to bring forward a new Decent Homes Standard in force by 2035.

A lot of work needs to take place over the next nine years, the Building Research Establishment has estimated that around 45% of social homes will need to be brought up to a new standard, while the last Labour government's Decent Homes Programme was successful, many homes fail to meet the decent homes standards. The government's new decent home standards will improve the quality and safety of homes. However, we do not want to find ourselves in a situation in 2030 in which a large proportion of homes have still not been upgraded.

2035 is already too long for many of our tenants to wait. They must not be told to wait longer. That is why we are recommending that the government should introduce interim targets to stipulate the percentage of social homes that should be upgraded to the revised Decent Homes standards each year before the standard comes into force in 2035. This will help to demonstrate and reassure residents and the public that progress has been made. We are also asking the government to introduce a progress to periodically review and, if necessary, update the Decent Homes standards at least every ten years.

As I mentioned earlier, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government has made good progress, which is welcome. The sector now has clarity which it needs to meet the standards. Changes to the rent settlement will help registered providers improve the quality of their homes. However, we are concerned that these steps alone will not be sufficient to deliver the improvements the government wants to see. Our view is that there is a strong case for the government to establish a new, modern, decent homes programmes to support social landlords, to raise the standards.

Even with the investment from the government. Even with the changes to the rent settlement, we are concerned that the sector will not have sufficient resources to meet these new standards. There is a real risk that the cost of the new regulations will lead landlords to choosing to sell those homes, instead of instead of adapting them. So while we welcome the plans for the government to transform and make a lasting change to the quality of social homes, the government's plans do not address the long term, systematic drivers of poor conditions, especially the need to replace some of the ageing stock.

We hope that the government's long term housing strategy is an opportunity for the government to fill this gap, and we urge the government to publish this strategy as soon as possible.
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None Portrait Backbench Business: General debate on LGBT+ history month
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up to 15 minutes. Nadia Whittome.
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Nadia Whittome Portrait Nadia Whittome MP (Nottingham East, Labour)
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Madam Deputy Speaker. And I thank the Backbench Business Committee for approving this debate, Committee for approving this debate, which I'm pleased has become a regular fixture of the calendar in the world's gayest Parliament. And thanks also to my hon. Friend, the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East who made the application with me and whose relentless work for LGBTQ+ rights inspires me every day, not least her victory at the Council of Europe, where her report

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on banning conversion practices passed with a resounding majority. Yes.

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Yes. I'm pleased that the government has confirmed that it will publish a draft bill towards this end, and I hope that the Minister will use today as an opportunity to set out more details and timelines. Now, I more details and timelines. Now, I appreciate the irony of one of the younger LGBTQ+ MPs opening a debate younger LGBTQ+ MPs opening a debate about LGBTQ+ history. Luckily, Madam Deputy Speaker, I respect my elders. So if if any of my colleagues who actually lived through this history would like to intervene.

Correct me if I'm getting it wrong and reveal how old they are, they would be more than welcome. Although I am confident that even the most senior among them will not be able to recall ancient Greece, which I'll be mentioning later. But I do also think that it's appropriate for someone like me to open this debate, because in so many ways, I am a product of LGBTQ history. The life I lead today that I'm able to be an openly queer MP, that I was taught in school about LGBTQ+ people, that I can marry my girlfriend if we so choose.

That discrimination against me is banned is because of the struggle of generation upon generation of LGBTQ+ people, from the Gay Liberation Front to those who overturned section 28 from lesbians and gays support the miners to those who set up switchboard, from anti-AIDS activists to the gay MPs upon whose shoulders we stand. Like Maureen Calhoun, the first openly lesbian member of this House who fought tirelessly for gender equality and sex workers rights, and Chris Smith, who came out in 1984 at a rally against gay employees being banned from his local council.

It's thanks to the last Labour government responding to the movement for LGBTQ+ rights that the age of consent was equalised, that section 28 was repealed, that civil partnerships were granted, that same sex couples could adopt, that trans people could have their gender legally recognised, and that the Equality Act was passed. I feel immensely grateful to those who came before me that I did not experience many of the horrors that they did, and I wish that those who were no longer with us could see us now.

The record numbers of people who are comfortable and safe, identifying as their true selves, who who live better, more equal

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lives because of everything they fought for. Absolutely. I thank.

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I thank. My hon. Friend for making such a powerful and passionate speech, and she's such a fantastic advocate for she's such a fantastic advocate for the LGBT+ community. She highlighted the many people who highlighted the many people who have passed on and died. She'll know that I'm one of the co-chairs of the APPG, HIV and Aids and of the APPG, HIV and Aids and Sexual Health and that disgraceful stigma that's still attached to that. Does she agree with me that this year's theme of science and innovation, we should celebrate the science and innovation of many people from across the HIV and Aids sector, and our fight of this

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government to make sure we are one of the first countries to end new HIV transmissions in 2013. Yes.

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Yes. I completely. Agree with my hon. Friend, and I

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Agree with my hon. Friend, and I congratulate her on all of the work that she has done on this right since we were elected together in since we were elected together in 2019. She's absolutely right and I commend the government for its work commend the government for its work on on this area. But at the same time, Madam Deputy Speaker, we must acknowledge that many in our community continue to suffer both here and around the world. I'm proud to be co-chair of the APPG on global LGBT+ rights and the situation for our siblings internationally varies immensely from place to place in 65 countries.

That's a third of all states. LGBTQ+ people are still criminalised because of who they are and who they love. While we're seeing progress in some places, in others, new discriminatory laws and policies continue to be introduced. And unfortunately, the UK is one of the places where the state of LGBTQ+ rights has been getting worse instead of better in preparation for today. I rewatched the speech made by my hon. Friend and, if I may, lesbian icon the Member for Wallasey in 2023.

And I was really struck by her reflection that she would scarcely have believed the progress that has been made in the three decades since she was first elected in 1992. And I'm devastated that I cannot say the same for my time here, that during the last six years that I've been an MP. Progress has not only stalled, but gone backwards. Last year, the UK dropped six places to 22nd in the Ilga rankings of LGBTQ+ rights in European countries.

In 2015, we were number one. The only other countries that suffered a similarly dramatic drop last year were hungry, whose far right government banned pride marches, and Georgia, which is implementing Russian style anti-LGBTQ laws. Madam Deputy Speaker. The Ilga has been explicit that the Supreme Court ruling and the subsequent interim guidance from the Equality and Human Rights Commission are the cause of our regression, as trans people in this country can no longer fully obtain legal gender recognition. Many are now living in fear of being terrorised out of public life, whether through discrimination, abuse and violence by those who have been emboldened to become the gender police, or through endless legal threats, forcing more and more spaces to exclude them.

We have to ask, what is the end game here? What do people oppose to trans inclusion? Want trans people to do to live segregated lives that violate their privacy and their dignity? To be forced back into the closet to somehow stop existing? What about intersex people? What are they meant to do when their biological sex has always been more complicated than simply male or female? And that's why I also think that this month acts as an important corrective to the lie that anti-trans activists often tell that sex is binary, that until recently, gender identity was straightforward man have penis, woman have vagina.

Trans people don't exist. Well, tell that to Roberta Cowell, the first known British trans woman to undergo gender affirming surgery and have her birth certificate changed in 1951. Or to Charlie Wilson, a trans man and ship's painter from the Victorian era, or to Eleanor Rykener, who was a trans 14th century embroiderer, embroiderer, barmaid and sex worker. Tell that to to intersex people who have been documented as far back as Ancient Greek, Roman and Indian texts to the two spirit people of indigenous North Americans, or to the Hijra in South Asia.

As countless biologists, psychologists and societies across the world will attest, both gender and gender identity and sex have always been complex, diverse, and not simply defined by the genitalia that those opposed to trans rights and the media are so obsessed with discussing. And it's also not the case that more trans people have just appeared out of nowhere in recent years. Trans people have always existed. Trans people will always exist, and we should be proud that more people finally feel able to live as their true selves, rather than hide in shame and fear with dire consequences for their mental health.

We should be celebrating this alongside the record numbers of people identifying as gay, lesbian and bisexual, but instead Madam Deputy Speaker a vocal minority hope that if we make trans people's lives as difficult as possible, if they're hounded and abused, there may be we can get back to a mythical time when they could pretend that trans people didn't exist, when gay people weren't in their face, when women knew their place. Let me be clear. The rollback of rights is all linked, and efforts to narrow the definition of womanhood to police people's gender expression, to tie women to our biology are a patriarchal and homophobic wet dream.

We are already seeing how the Supreme Court ruling an interim guidance a leading to women, cis as well as trans being challenged and harassed in toilets and other single sex spaces. So gender critical activists have some brass neck claiming that they're advancing our rights through their actions. Now, I appreciate separation of powers between the legislature and the judiciary, and that the Supreme Court had the unenviable job of attempting to interpret the will of Parliament when making its ruling.

I also appreciate that this government therefore had no hand in this decision. However, it is far from powerless. The interim guidance from the EHR went far beyond even the Supreme Court's ruling, and we must ensure that the statutory guidance does not do the same. I hope the Minister will be able to provide an update about where they're at, and confirmation that the guidance will enable organisations to be inclusive of trans people, instead of mandating their exclusion.

It's also the case that Parliament could legislate to make clear what our intention in the Equality Act is, and I do not believe for a second that the landmark piece of equality legislation passed by the last Labour government after the Gender Recognition Act, intended the blanket exclusion of trans people. If the law needs to be clarified, then Parliament should make that clarification. Madam Deputy Speaker we should not be triangulating on issues of human rights. We should not allow trans people to be thrown under the bus in an attempt to appease a tiny, well-funded, radicalised minority who are not representative of women and who are not representative of the rest of the LGBTQ+ community.

All of us in here have a duty to all our LGBTQ+ constituents, including trans people. Trans people are the topic of frequent debate in this House without the ability to input into it. We have to amplify their voices, their experiences, their concerns, and they are demanding that we oppose their exclusion. And as a queer woman, I feel a particular debt to the trans community because they fought for the rights that I enjoy today. They were on the pride marches.

They were at the die ins. They lobbied their MPs and I benefited from it. What kind of person would I be to pull up the ladder now, when the LGBTQ+ community has always been and will always be one in struggle and in joy? There is no LGB without the T. We rise together and we fall together. And we must not let our trans siblings rights be taken.

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Thank you so much, Madam Deputy Speaker. The question. Is as on the Order Paper, and I

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call Dame Nia Griffith. Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, I really do thank my hon. Friend from really do thank my hon. Friend from Nottingham East for not only taking the initiative on this debate, but for making a fantastic opening for making a fantastic opening speech and saying so much about our trans community, which is so, so important. And I will come back to important. And I will come back to that in a moment. Now, in this, our LGBT+ month debate, it's important not only to acknowledge how far we've come in respect of LGBT+ rights, but to renew our determination both to protect the progress we've made and to do more, both here and abroad, to enable LGBT+ people to enjoy opportunities that are every bit as good as non LGBT+ people enjoy.

I'm not going to repeat much of the speech that my hon. Friend has just made, so I will keep my remarks fairly brief. I welcome the fact that through amending the Police and Crime Bill, the government is moving ahead with making LGBT+ and disability hate crime into aggravated offences, bringing them in line with racial and religious hate crime. But changes in the law need to be supported by cultural change. Unfortunately, too often we hear of denigration, taunting and bullying of LGBT+ people, sometimes through ignorance.

But also, I'm sorry to say, open prejudice, even amongst those who would hope to know better in our public services. Research by the TUC into harassment, bullying and prejudice of LGBT+ people in the workplace revealed that over half of respondents raising to 80%
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Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith MP (Llanelli, Labour)
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of trans respondents have been subject to one of these. So there subject to one of these. So there should be no rolling back of equality, diversity and inclusion programmes, whether it's LGBT+ programmes, whether it's LGBT+ inclusive relationship education for young people in schools or whether it's in a public or private whether it's in a public or private sector workplace. I'm pleased that our Employment Rights Act gives formal recognition to trade union equality officers and to strengthen the employer duties against harassment.

This will certainly help, but we should be under no illusion that there is still much to do. Now moving on to the conversion practices, Bill, I know a lot of work has been done on this bill, and I appreciate that the Minister is absolutely committed to bringing forward this bill and to ensuring that it is fully trans inclusive. But time is ticking on, and I would be grateful if she could tell us when she is likely to publish a draft bill.

Now, turning to the trans community, I have met many trans people and their families this year, as I expect the Minister has, who have been deeply upset since the Supreme Court ruling last April, not just by the ruling itself, but at the way in which the ruling has been seized upon by some, interpreted far more widely than the context of the Equality Act 2010, and used as a weapon against trans people. We must find a way which enables trans people to live their lives peacefully and in dignity, without having to come out repeatedly in all sorts of circumstances.

So I would ask the Minister to ensure that, however, we finally get to the final guidance on the practical implementation of the ruling, it really does respect the rights of trans people to privacy and to living their lives in their acquired gender, and it also offers protection to all those organisations who find themselves under attack for being trans inclusive. We need to see guidelines which focus on inclusion and not exclusion. Now I'd like to turn now to the international scene. We all appreciate that there are significant financial pressures at this time, but I would like to make a specific plea to ministerial colleagues to protect the support given to LGBT rights programmes through the FCDO foreign aid Budget.

In the great scheme of things, it is not a huge amount of money, but it's nevertheless extremely important. This is for several reasons. Firstly and foremost because it is not just a minority rights issue. Sadly, we are seeing attacks on LGBT+ rights around the world used as a weapon to undermine our democracies, sowing division, dividing societies and often used as a precursor to attacks on wider minority rights and greater authoritarianism. Now, I won't repeat all the comments that I made on the in the debate on Monday about the interference of Russia on our democracy and politics, but research by the Kaleidoscope Trust and its international partners, alongside UK government and Equal Rights Coalition statements, has shown that hostile states such as Russia systematically promote anti gender and anti LGBT I+ narratives, which are used to polarise electorates and mobilise nationalist and populist movements, and even undermine trust in institutions such as NATO, the EU and the UN.

This is a threat to us, but it's an even greater threat in countries where democracy is more fragile. So secondly, the UK still commands respect abroad and strong support from the UK for programmes supporting LGBT rights does send a clear signal to other donor countries of the importance of this aid and, conversely, the cutting of UK aid for LGBT rights programmes may influence other donors negatively. Thirdly, any retreat from supporting LGBT rights is likely to embolden those who weaponise them and exacerbate existing difficulties.

Now, I am very pleased to hear that the UK will be hosting the meeting in 2027, but I would really ask the Minister if we could use that both to put our position on the rankings in a better place, but also to support LGBT rights internationally. Thank you Kate Osborne.
13:27
Kate Osborne Portrait Kate Osborne MP (Jarrow and Gateshead East, Labour)
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Are you ready to stand? Kate Osborne. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's a huge honour to co-lead this It's a huge honour to co-lead this debate with my hon. Friend, the Member for Nottingham East. We share many things, not least our proud queer identities and a deep commitment to equality. So I'm pleased to have worked together to mark LGBT History Month after years of progress. It feels to many of us as though we are going backwards on many of the rights that LGBTQ+ people have fought hard for and gained rights that were hard won are now being treated as optional protections that people fought for, often at great personal cost, are being chipped away.

One argument, one dog whistle, one headline at a time. For our trans siblings in particular, this feels like a dark and a dangerous time. That's why LGBT+ History Month matters. Our history shows us the patterns, progress, backlash, progress again. And now we are facing another backlash. That backlash is never without harm. It comes at significant human cost. So whilst

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very. Grateful to my hon. Friend for

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Grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. And can I firstly congratulate her and my hon. Friend, the Member for Nottingham East for the Member for Nottingham East for securing this debate and the work that she has done at the Council of Europe to secure the passing of Europe to secure the passing of that report on the trans inclusive conversion Therapy ban, a conversion Therapy ban, a monumental achievement. Is she, like me, concerned about the rise of the far right across Europe and in the UK, and the threat that this poses to our constituents of LGBTQ

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plus backgrounds? I thank my hon. Friend for her

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I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and yes, I share her intervention and yes, I share her concerns. Regarding the far right and indeed others. So whilst we celebrate the trailblazers, the organisers, the artists, the campaigners, the nurses and carers campaigners, the nurses and carers who held hands in hospital wards when families would not visit, the friends who became family, the people who marched when it was dangerous and the people who stood up when they were told to sit down.

We also learn from their courage. We remember that our history includes pride marches and community groups, but also trade union solidarity and working class organising. Because one of the strongest lessons in our LGBT+ history is this when working people stand together, we win change that reaches far beyond the workplace. I declare an interest as a proud member of Unite the Union, and let's just take the opportunity to mention that as well as LGBT History Month, it is Union Hearts Week.

Trade unions are always at the heart of the fight for equality, its trade unions that push employers to have policies on discrimination at work and trade unions who decades ago brought about trans inclusive policies at a time when division is being weaponised, that lesson of solidarity is more important than ever. In my own constituency of Jarrow and Gateshead East, I'm proud of the work being done by our North East, in particular, Drew Dalton and Peter Darren Paffey and their fantastic work in the community with youth groups, older LGBT people.

And just last week, opening the new, bigger premises for the One Centre, which is the first LGBT media and business centre in the UK, and it's in my constituency. This new location is a brand new LGBTQ plus inclusive space. The facilities are absolutely incredible and I'm and I'm so honoured and moved to have realised when I arrived that I was featured on the icons wall alongside Bowie, and that there was a room named after me, and another room named after the wonderful Lord Cashman from the other place.

Last month I was also proud, as others have mentioned, to have led the debate in the Council of Europe, and I'm pleased to say that my report on banning conversion practices passed with support from across the political spectrum and across Europe. The report contains a framework for legislation that each of the 46 countries are then expected to adopt in their own parliaments. Our government should now adopt that framework because conversion practices don't just happen in theory, they happen to real people in real life.

They happen under the guise of therapy, guidance, deliverance or counselling. And the message is always the same you are broken, you are wrong and you need to be fixed. Well, I'm here to say that I'm a lesbian and there's nothing about me that needs to be fixed. Thank you. I'm afraid, Madam Deputy Speaker, that instead of learning from the stigma and prejudice of the past, here we are marginalising, discriminating, preventing vital life saving health care and support, and excluding trans and non-binary people from sport, spaces and society.

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that future MPs, government Ministers and possibly prime Ministers will stand where we are right now and have to dish out the kind of apologies, compensation and retribution for the wrongs of yesterday that we are, that we that we see happening all too often today. So why don't we save ourselves and most importantly, save the trans community? Stand up and step up for them right now instead of capitulating with a small band of very loud and well funded bigots.

Let's not make today's discrimination, tomorrow's new inquiry, public apology and compensation scheme, because that is exactly where we are heading. And I'll finish with a celebration of our history. We are here today in the Parliament in the world. 12% of this chamber are LGBT, and I'm delighted to be serving queer Joy in Parliament for you all to hear, and to the homophobes that are still just about clinging on to their prejudices. Well, I've got some queer joy for you too. It's 2026.

We're still here. We've always been here. We're out and proud, and there's more of us than ever before. So really, just get over it already. And I'm here to reaffirm my commitment to fighting for equality. I will declare an interest as the new chair of the APPG on fertility, that I will continue to fight for IVF for all. I'll also declare an interest as the chair of the APPG on Women's Football, and I was pleased to be at the launch of the new Premier League with pride.

It's great to see the rainbow flag flying across every football ground in the Premier League, because football is a great unifier. The North East is renowned for being a hotbed of football. Perhaps that's why I loved it so much when I moved there back in 1989, and why I've never left. It transcends borders and brings people together from diverse backgrounds. Football is for everyone. And on that note, I do have a message for the AA and that is, let the dolls play football.

I want to thank the Minister for her support and for the very many productive conversations that we've had, as well as the work that she's doing to bring forward a ban on conversion practices and to make LGBT hate crime an aggravated Speaker.

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Mr. chair Sarah Owen. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I start by saying it's a And can I start by saying it's a real honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East and I want to reiterate congratulations to her reiterate congratulations to her for her fine work in passing the ban on conversion therapy in Europe. ban on conversion therapy in Europe. It is greatly needed and I hope that the government will soon follow.

I also want to say thank you to the opening speeches of my hon. Friends. My hon. Friend from Nottingham East and from Llanelli, both of which serve as brilliant members on the Women and Equalities Committee. And I know that there are other members from the Women's and Equalities Committee here. And can I just say you called out queer icons. You are my icons. Not just serving the LGBT community, but also serving our movement. So thank
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Sarah Olney Portrait Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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you. And today we're learning about history and how not to repeat the history and how not to repeat the lessons of the past. So I have to say that I am deeply disappointed that there are not more members on that there are not more members on the benches opposite. I'm not surprised reform aren't here. There isn't a willingness to learn. There isn't a willingness to come together. There isn't a willingness together. There isn't a willingness to bring people together. But I am surprised that there are no green representatives on those benches, that there are no Lib Dems on the back benches, that there are no SNP members.

And I have to say that I am very pleased that the Member for the world has left his place on the front bench next to the Shadow Minister, because during the Member for Nottingham East brilliant opening speech, he did not listen with respect, instead rolling his eyes. And I feel that while we try to bring everybody together.

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The hon. Member possibly remembers and knows that when we refer other members of the House, obviously we use their constituencies, not their names, constituencies, not their names, but we do let them know that we're about to refer to them in the chamber. Has she had time to do

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chamber. Has she had time to do that, but know that she was doing it very quickly after she has spoken? Marvellous, Sarah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I shall be doing that. I did expect him to stay, and perhaps learn from the rest of the speeches that had followed. Perhaps he could come back and perhaps learn a little bit more, because every year I've stood in this debate, it seemed that the LGBTQ plus community has had a tougher year than the one before. And that is sadly true today, as it was last year. We've seen the mainstream dangerously move further to the right to focus on not what brings people together, but what tears people apart.

Madam Deputy Speaker, that isn't leadership. The politics of the right is one of fear. It is cowardly. True strength is shown in the ability to learn, to understand, and to lead people to a better future than the past that has gone before. Because progress is not inevitable and we will have to fight for it. And I want to say to the LGBTQ+ community, you are not alone in that fight. Although I would really understand why many would feel alone right now.

Between March 2024 and March 2025, there were more than 18,000 hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation alone and over 3000 trans related hate crimes. Though there was a welcome slight dip in reported hate crimes in 2024. There has still been a 44% increase over the past five years, and horrifyingly, there has been an 88% increase in hate crimes against trans people in that year. Now, these horrifying statistics make it clear that some elements of the public are taking their lead from the current political discourse.

Reform's candidate in Gorton and Denton wants tax cuts for people who have children, which is not only deeply offensive to people like me who have struggled to have a child, but also to many LGBTQ+ people as well. But we know they ultimately do not want LGBT people to have children. The reform leader has gone on record with his belief that children are better off caught up in heterosexual households, rather than just with parents that love them. They aren't hiding how they feel.

They are saying it with their full chest, and they are reaping the benefits of a culture war where everyone is a casualty apart from themselves. A culture war that none of us see an end to without serious leadership. We know when they are done with trans people, they will go after the LGBT part of the community, and I wonder how long it will be before reform. And some elements of the Conservative Party call for an end to same sex couples being allowed to adopt.

Even what was unthinkable years ago isn't just being muttered quietly under their breath anymore. It's now a full throated attack under the cynical guise of safety, all a smokescreen for the abuse and real danger that women and children face. Now, I wish I could say it was only in the right wing parties that this toxicity existed, but sadly not. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when my own party took the decision to exclude trans women members from our women's conference.

It has led me to question my own decision, and that it is sadly not to attend women's conference for the first time in a very long time. It used to be one of my favourite parts of the conference season, a place for inclusivity and sensible discussion. I've even chaired some of the debates that are so memorable in my mind. But if all women can't go, then neither will I, because after attending every party conference and many trade union conferences for nearly 20 years, yes, I am that old.

My safety was never put at risk from trans women or trans men or the LGBTQ plus community, but it was by cis men with power, men who are unaccountable to anyone, something that many are slowly cottoning on to in this place and others. And our accountability is incredibly important. It matters. And where is it? Where is it for the people who consistently trade off one person's agenda, rights and rights for another, only to serve their ill gotten agenda? Does the Minister believe the Ehrc is up to the challenge of this ever toxic environment? Is it resource properly? I hope it is, Madam Deputy Speaker, because we need a defender of all our rights.

Otherwise, I fear as we watch America tear itself apart, we are just one sneeze away from catching the disease of state sanctioned hatred that sees leaders openly attack gay people, disabled people, and ethnic minority people. And we can do so much better than that. I know that as we move forward, there are many questions to raise to the Minister, but I want to pose one that has already been raised and that is when will we see the ban on conversion therapy come forward? And as many young trans people wait for the puberty blockers trials to go ahead.

What support is being given to them and to their families in this time of uncertainty? I know our Labour government is so much better than what we are seeing overseas right now. I know the British public is so much better than to want what they're seeing overseas right now, but I also know that we can do better. We are a country that isn't just tolerant, but is at its best when we celebrate difference, when we learn from one another, and when we come together to join in and celebrate who we are as this brilliant country, that's the country I want

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back. Cameron. Thank you, Madam Deputy. Speaker, it's a pleasure to

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Speaker, it's a pleasure to follow my friend. For Luton North. She gave an incredibly powerful speech. I also want to thank my speech. I also want to thank my hon. Friend for Nottingham East, for her incredibly powerful opening remarks and for moving this debate. She is a proud, queer British South Asian who is a role model to so Asian who is a role model to so many, and that representation really does matter. I also want to say how proud I am that my hon.

Friend for Reading West and Mid Berkshire is at the despatch box. We were friends long before we were elected to this place, and to see
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Uma Kumaran Portrait Uma Kumaran MP (Stratford and Bow, Labour)
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her here to give responses to all of us. It is quite a moment. Madam of us. It is quite a moment. Madam Deputy Speaker, how happy LGBT+ History month. I'm here as a proud History month. I'm here as a proud friend and ally. Stratford and Bow has a very proud history of queer resistance. It was home to the resistance. It was home to the Tower Hamlets Lesbian and gay campaign group. When Thatcher's government introduced section 28, government introduced section 28, when they tried to silence and erase an entire community.

The campaign group fought back with defiance, holding meetings at Bromley Public Hall to spread awareness and solidarity. And while libraries across the country stopped stocking queer literature, Tower Hamlets defied this ban, even producing a gay and lesbian book list for their libraries. They also published Out East Community Magazine, Spreading Word far and wide, and in Stratford, east London, gay community was a thriving social group. They also operated a telephone hotline every Tuesday night, taking at its peak up to 15,000 calls a year, offering help and support for gay people in East London and beyond for decades.

Instead of shame, they offered solidarity, acceptance and care. These stories aren't just history. They're a legacy that has profoundly shaped our communities in East London and throughout London. And we're still home to queer celebration and resistance. Whether it's being the home of UK black pride at Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park or Forest Gate Pride who defied hatred. Hatred when people defaced our local flags, and even outswim who meet at the aquatic centre to support and help local LGBT people participating in sports and amazing initiatives like Positive East and Newham LGBT seniors who meet at Stratford Library.

Everyone is welcome in Stratford and Bow and we celebrate our history and heritage. But as we celebrate LGBT History Month and as we look back on how far we've come, we cannot risk forgetting the lessons of that history. Those lessons are rarely convenient, and the risks of backsliding are ever present, as we've heard today. And I mentioned, as I mentioned briefly, we've had our own issues in Forest Gate. We sadly saw hatred come to our own community where our rainbow crossing, our pride flag was shamefully defaced multiple times.

It's this that reminds us we can't assume or take for granted the progress that we've made. This local crime, a hate crime, an attack on our local queer community was awful, and it really ran through. And it wasn't just the LGBT+ community in Forest Gate, it was everyone. It was all our neighbours. We were affronted that this was happening, but we now have rainbow wraps that adorn our street lamps. And when we unveiled these, the community stood together to share a defiant message that no hate will win here.

LGBT identities will never be erased, and certainly not on my watch as their MP. But as I said, Madam Deputy Speaker, we cannot risk complacency. Progress is hard fought and hard won. And in the months since the Supreme Court ruling ruling on the Equality Act, hundreds of my constituents have written to me to share their experience and their fears and the deep impact that the interim guidance issued by the Ehrc is having on their daily lives. The lack of clarity also has an impact on organisations across the country too, and on trans people who increasingly find themselves excluded from this discussion.

Just as we demand that women's voices are heard and respected, so too must we listen to trans voices, trans women's voices who find themselves subject to mockery and abuse as those on the far right stoke culture wars? But these are real people and real lives. Last year I wrote to the Minister for Women and Equalities and I made the views of my constituents very clear that we must ensure that the Supreme Court ruling does not leave anyone facing yet more barriers to living a full, happy and dignified life, free of discrimination and harassment.

I shared stories from my constituents, one who transitioned over 25 years ago, told me the place that they worked for 13 years now has segregated toilets. They're terrified they'll now have to disclose their trans identity to their colleagues, infringing on their right to privacy and risking their safety and inclusion at work. This isn't an abstract discussion. This is real lives of real people living in every one of our communities. They deserve dignity and freedom to live as they have been, in many cases for decades without issue.

It's why we must see the Ehrc guidance come forward as soon as possible. We cannot risk backsliding by allowing this judgement to license discrimination or undermine the norms of trans inclusion. It cannot signal a move away from LGBT liberation after decades of progress. Madam Deputy Speaker, we often hear that pride is a protest, but pride is also a movement rooted in resistance, in defying silence, in refusing shame. And we've come so far, it bears repeating that the lessons of history are clear, that progress was hard won and it must be defended.

But this LGBT History Month is not just about struggle, it's about joy and celebration and celebrating queer identity. That's why I'm here as a proud ally to celebrate this. It's why Tower Hamlets gay and lesbian campaign groups stood for. It's what the East London gay collective stood for. It's a legacy that we must all carry forward, and in particular at this moment, for our trans friends and neighbours. So as we celebrate LGBT+ History Month, as we look back on how far we've come, let's remember that progress is never inevitable.

It demands resolve. It demands allyship, including from

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each and every one of us in this place. Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I thank the Member for Nottingham East for her introduction to the debate. introduction to the debate. According to data compiled by the House of Commons Library, over 10% of the population of my of the population of my constituency of Glasgow North identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual. One of the highest
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Martin Rhodes Portrait Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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bisexual. One of the highest proportions in the country and over 1% identify as transgender. Again well above the national average. The data illustrates a wider story of a growing number of people feeling confident, living their lives openly as their true self, and at the same time, those who feel unable to do so, and those who feel that they can only be open about themselves in some circumstances, but not in others. The recent history of LGBT+ rights has seen a growing confidence shaping and being shaped by legislative change and cultural societal change.

Cultural societal change influencing legislative change and in turn legislative change influencing cultural society. Change. Progress made in recent decades and progress that, for many, now feels less secure than ever. LGBT+ History Month gives us the opportunity to reflect on this history. A history of prejudice and of progress. A history of shame and of pride. A history marked by hatred and by love. Too many personal histories never fully told. Too many talents never fully celebrated. Too many denied.

The opportunities to live their lives fully, but also those who, despite challenges and barriers, hatred and discrimination, have lived their lives as fully as they could and the lives of many and still remembered today. Constituencies like mine in large cities have so often been a magnet for LGBT+ people, who see the big city as perhaps more liberal or more anonymous. The small town boy phenomenon formed by Bronski Beat in the 80s. For many big cities like Glasgow, have been a lifeline and have become their space for too many others, too many others.

The dazzle of the bright lights hid dark places. The draw of the big city has been around for many decades. In 1933 33, two working class Scots, Robert Cohen and Robert McBride, often referred to as the two Roberts, arrived from Ayrshire at the Glasgow School of Art. They went on to become renowned artists and share a lifelong romantic relationship. At a time when gay relationships were illegal. There are histories of LGBTQ+ artists, writers and musicians, but there are histories too, not recorded and not told of LGBT+ shop assistants, delivery drivers and joiners.

These histories need to be written and told as we recall and retell LGBT history. This month. We celebrate progress, but we also recognise the difficult times. I was a teenager and became an adult in the 1980s, when the world was faced with what's now referred to as the Aids crisis. At that time, I recall the newspaper headlines referring to the gay plague. I still remember clearly reading a news story about how schools were cancelling swimming lessons at a local authority swimming pool because gay men had been swimming there.

I also remember a story where a cafe owner reassured his customers by telling them not to worry, as he had smashed and got rid of the crockery and cutlery used by a gay customer, and deep cleaned the cafe. There was a clear popular narrative that gay equals illness equals death. Even by 1996, when the film Beautiful Thing was released, it was still possible to shock by having a mainstream film with gay characters who end the film alive, well and happy.

LGBT History Month is an opportunity to recall history, to celebrate and to pay respects. It is also an opportunity in this place to reflect on how legislative change has not just been the result of cultural societal change, but also how legislative change can be a tool to drive cultural and societal change. It is an opportunity for us in this place to reflect on that, acknowledge the importance of the leadership that can be taken through legislative change, and ultimately is a call on us to act.

History moves on. It is our job to make the next legislative change. I look forward to hearing from the Minister about the progress that is being made on bringing forward legislation that is comprehensive and inclusive, to ban conversion practices outright. We need to bring forward this legislation, quite rightly, in response to calls for it, but also because it is our duty in this place not just to respond, but to lead progressively. It is for us to take action, to legislate, to reflect the changes in society.

But it is also our duty to use the powers that we have to change society for the better. In this LGBT+ History Month, let us remember the history that has brought us to where we are, but also remember our responsibility to help the history that is still to be written.
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Rachel Blake Portrait Rachel Blake MP (Cities of London and Westminster, Labour )
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Blake. Blake. Thank you, Madam. >> Blake. Blake. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, and thank you to the hon. Member for Nottingham East and for Jarrow and Gateshead East and for Jarrow and Gateshead East for securing this debate and for your powerful remarks. And I just have to pay tribute to my hon. Friend from Glasgow East for his really go north, North for his powerful speech and remarks calling for the change that we need and reminding us of the horrors of the 1980s and the representation of the LGBT community at that time.

I remember that really clearly. And the horror that that put into young people and the damage that that has done. I think for decades is something that we will take a long time to recover from. So thank you very much. I'm here as a proud friend and ally to the LGBT community, and to talk about what LGBT History Month means for my constituency and my constituents. The purpose of these months is to celebrate, reflect, learn, and to plan for what we need to do to secure rights going into the future.

And I'm grateful to hon. Members for talking about struggle and also talking about joy. So for my few minutes, I want to talk about the joy that I know takes place in my community, in my constituency every day, but also some of the struggles that we face going ahead. I'm so proud to represent a constituency with such historic ties to the LGBT community, home to London Pride, to G-a-y, to the city of Quebec, the oldest LGBT venue. We think I'll invite historians to chat any historians in the room to challenge me on an intervention.

And she Soho the home to historic figures Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing and Vita Sackville-West just carrying on with some of the joy that I have had in my community, representing and talking to my constituents in the Westminster LGBT forum. And I want to give a shout out to the kindness that I have experienced working with Professor Pippa Cattrall, who chairs the LGBT forum, and also pride in the Square Mile, I want to celebrate Bishopsgate Institute, their incredible archive of LGBT history, and if anyone has time over recess, I strongly recommend a visit.

I know that they would welcome all of us. We're incredibly proud to host 56 Dean Street and Inspiring Sexual Health Service, based in Soho, that has a really pioneering approach to securing excellent sexual health services. It has been truly inspiring to hear about the progress that we have made this afternoon. Over the years, we've seen the support for gay marriage go up just in the last few years, from 54% in 2010 to 78% in 2023. And we've also heard about incredible stories of sacrifice.

But we are less than 30 years from the horrendous attack at the Admiral Duncan pub. Many of this of us in this room will remember that week and what it felt like to live in a city where people can be attacked for who they are, where people are murdered for, for who they are. And so I want to pay a tribute to the Hate Crime Awareness Month team, who are friends of people who lost their lives in the Admiral Duncan attack, and to Reverend Simon Buckley and to the Westminster LGBT champion and Soho champion, Councillor Patrick Lilly, for the work that they do at the annual remembrance event for the Admiral Duncan attack.

And I don't think there's ever been a singing in the chamber, but I would I cannot articulate how powerful it is listening to the pink singers sing I want to Dance with someone at that annual remembrance service, and you're all welcome to join me there to show our respect and to celebrate the joy, but also remember the terrible struggles that people have lived through. And six months ago, we experienced a homophobic group marched through the very centre of Soho, attacking people for who they are and chanting for chanting hate.

And that's something that is still very live for us. And we also now facing the attack on trans rights. My constituents, like many of us in this room, have contacted me in deep pain about what they are experiencing in the current horrific culture war that we're living through, and many of us are fighting to get through, and we just cannot allow the current situation, the current level of attack on trans people to continue, and for the interim guidance to stop people from living their lives as who they are.

So I think we seem united in this chamber to make sure that we can rally towards that position where people can live freely for who they are. We all deserve dignity in struggle, we all deserve dignity in love, and we all deserve dignity in joy.
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Rachel Taylor Portrait Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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Peace. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> I'm so proud and pleased to to be taking part in this debate. And I do want to pay tribute to my hon. Friend, the Member for Nottingham East. She may be young, but she is a fearless, knowledgeable and compassionate champion for our movement, and I also want to pay tribute to all the other wonderful colleagues, both from my community and the proud allies who've spoken in this debate. And I was particularly moved by my hon.

Friend, the Member for Glasgow North, who shared the stories that vividly brought back to me what it was like living through the 1980s. So I thank him for that. LGBT history in this country is a history shaped by courage, service, resilience and far too often, injustice. The history of discrimination against LGBT people runs through our armed forces, our healthcare system, our laws, the way our courts treated lesbian mums and our communities. It's a history that reminds us that progress is not inevitable, that if equality is not defended, the progress we have fought for can be destroyed far too easily.

I attended my first pride in 1986, not long after the great work of Mark Ashton and Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners. It was a celebration of how far we've come and a protest that we still faced injustice. I never could have predicted that section 28 would be introduced just two years later that year, I attended pride alongside angry and distraught friends. Section 28 was an attack on the right of people like me to live openly. It stigmatised lesbian, gay and bisexual people.

In just two years, the progress that I had seen as a student had been ripped away from us. It's a reminder that equality is an ongoing battle, and today I see the same people who supported section 28 trying to row back on rights for trans people. This is why LGBT History Month matters, because it reminds us that progress can't be taken for granted. This LGBT History Month, I want to remember all the LGBT soldiers and veterans who've served the United Kingdom, even when the armed forces rejected them, they proudly served our country.

Many had their careers ended, their ranks stripped, and the sacrifices and service they made erased simply because of who they were and who they loved. That treatment was a moral stain on our nation. As a Labour MP, I'm proud that it was the Labour government which lifted the ban on LGBT people serving in the military. We can never undo the harm that was done to veterans, but we can take responsibility for it. That's why implementing the recommendations of the Etherton review are so important, so that LGBT veterans have their compensation restored ranks and corrected records.

Only by implementing these recommendations will we restore dignity, pride and historical truth. It was truly an honour to see the King unveil the memorial to LGBT military personnel at the National Memorial Arboretum, not too far from my constituency, and I spent a wonderful day on Boxing Day with my partner, Dawn, visiting and thinking at that memorial, yeah, turning to the present in the coming weeks, the amendment that I called for to hate crime laws in this House last year will be introduced in the House of Lords.

He I worked with my colleagues, the members for Penistone and Stocksbridge and Burton and Uttoxeter and over 100 other MPs to equalise the law on hate crime. It will make all hate crimes aggravated offences so that disabled and LGBT people receive the same support as victims of other hate crimes and have the same time to report these distressing, vile, degrading and often violent crimes so that their experiences are treated with the same severity as those suffering hate crime because of their race or religion.

This was a manifesto promise from the Labour Party, and I'm proud to be part of a government and these benches that deliver on that promise and turn up when these issues are debated and LGBT history is celebrated. LGBT history is not just about the past, though. It's about highlighting how discrimination persists today and that homophobia and transphobia still destroy lives. I was pleased this week to welcome the Premier League with Pride Launch, using the Power of sport to promote inclusion and respect, and hopefully in our not too distant future, we may see Premier League players coming out as gay and being supported.

LGBT people have long faced barriers to healthcare, from the stigma faced by gay men during the Aids crisis, to lesbians denied help with painful periods and reproductive health problems. To trans people today trying to navigate a system that often meets them with suspicion instead of care, history teaches us that inaction is not neutral. It only allows harm to continue. That's why I welcome the steps this Labour government is taking to improve LGBT people's access to healthcare. The HIV Action Plan is groundbreaking and will support the goal of ending new transmissions by 2030, and I applaud the excellent work done by the Terrence Higgins Trust.

Thousands of people will benefit from improved HIV testing and treatment. This is the change that a Labour government can make. There's one final point I want to make, and that is that we must be bolder when it comes to standing up for the rights of trans people. Culture wars have polluted online social media platforms with vitriolic hatred towards trans people, who make up less than 1% of the population. When I speak with them, I hear the same story. All they want is access to the healthcare they need and to live their lives without fear of discrimination.

And the parents of trans children who come to see me in my surgery want that very same thing. At the same time, we see a minority who claim to represent the views of women, calling for trans people to have their rights eroded. I believe we can stand side by side. I know that most people want to live and let live now more than ever, the LGBT community and our wonderful allies must continue to stand against all homophobia and transphobia. We must learn from our history so that we never allow our progress to be taken from us.

We're proud of our history. We're proud

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of who we are. We're proud of who we love. And we are never going underground. Hey.

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Hey. I call Bell Ribeiro-Addy. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would like to start by congratulating my hon. Friends. And and the formidable members from and the formidable members from Nottingham East and Jarrow and Gateshead for securing this vital debate and for their brilliant
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Bell Ribeiro-Addy Portrait Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP (Clapham and Brixton Hill, Labour)
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debate and for their brilliant speeches, because I know this debate means a lot to members of the LGBT+ community in my constituency and across the UK. I'm really pleased to hear the reflections and recognition of the incredible achievements of LGBT+ people throughout history, and the remarkable fight for equality and end to discrimination. But sadly, we all know that that fight is not yet over and there's still a substantial way to go before LGBT+ people are free to live and love without prejudice.

So. So I also want to congratulate my hon. Friend for Jarrow and Gateshead for her victory at the Council of Europe. Passing the report on banning conversion therapy, particularly because one of the steps that this government and the previous one has so far failed to take in terms of ending discrimination, is the introduction of a complete trans inclusive ban on LGBT+ conversion therapy, a vile practice that is better described as a form of torture towards LGBT+ people. We said so-called conversion therapy is abuse.

There is no other word for it. So Labour will finally deliver a full trans inclusive ban on conversion practices, while protecting the freedom for people to explore their sexual orientation and gender identity. Those were the words in our 2024 manifesto, words that I was pleased to take to the electorate, and I was proud to hear the promise reiterated in the King's Speech. Yet, almost two years on, we are still awaiting the Draft Conversion Practices Bill. And for every day this legislation is delayed, LGBT+ people are subjected to medical, psychiatric, psychological, religious and cultural and other abusive interventions that seek to change or cure or suppress their sexual orientation and or gender identity, a person's sexual orientation or gender identity is not something that needs to be cured, nor is it something that should be suppressed.

There's nothing wrong with being lesbian, gay, bi, trans, queer, or identifying with any other way that comes under the LGBT+ umbrella. And it seems like we're taking steps back in terms of equality to have to state this in 2026. But it is necessary because conversion practices have not been banned in their entirety and they seek to say otherwise. They seek to tell LGBT+ people that their identity is wrong when this is simply untrue. Now, it's not uncommon for individuals to question or explore their sexual orientation or gender identity and seek guidance and support from their friends, family or even religious leaders.

But it has always irked me when people attempt to use faith in these arguments, especially when I think of what Jesus's final commandment was, which was quite simply, to love one another. I've never understood how you can love someone whilst discriminating against them at the same time. Conversion therapy is not supportive. It is not affirming. It is not therapeutic. It is a one directional practice that seeks to force LGBT+ people to change their sexual orientation or gender identity through pseudoscientific counselling sessions, threats, corrective rape, being prayed over as a form of healing, and even exorcisms.

These practices do nothing to make a person straight or cisgender. In fact, all they do is cause immense psychological and physical harm. And for every day this legislation is delayed, the practice continues and LGBT+ people are at risk of these vile conversion practices being offered or forced onto them. Now. The previous government promised to bring in the ban, they delayed and U-turned and ultimately failed to introduce one. Now, I'm sure it's not a spoiler for me to say that I'm sure the government will deliver on its manifesto commitment, and I look forward to the minister's response, particularly because I know that she is someone who has long campaigned on these issues.

But the urgent question that I would like her to answer is when?
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Tom Hayes Portrait Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)
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OK. >> Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. And it's a pleasure to speak in a debate which was opened by my hon. Friend for Nottingham East and Sarah Owen Gateshead East, with such excellent speeches. It's also an honour to speak in this debate, having listened to the. My hon. Friend for Glasgow North, who in speaking about beautiful things, got me thinking about how we've seen queer culture depicted in our culture in different ways, and it reminded me of a social media post that I saw by the TV critic Scott Bryan, who said just a few weeks ago that over his lifetime he's gone from seeing LGBT+ and queer storylines being a rarity, or to controversial decades ago, to then being in soaps often depicted as a moral outrage, then to being occasionally mentioned but never really explored, that castes would be presented, but their storylines never really developed.

A k the gay best friend that you would then see some exploration, but typically they die. There'd be a tragic ending to then a gay or LGBT character being explored, but really only after the watershed, and really only for the character to be embraced by an LGBT+ audience, to then creating queer shows in more recent years, which may be targeted at younger people, to tell them that everything's going to be OK, or as we saw with heated rivalry, something altogether different.

And I think I'll leave my description about that. But in thinking about that description, it made me realise that actually what we're talking about here is largely lesbian and gay TV shows, not trans TV shows. And that then was making me realise actually, that while pride is primarily of, by and for the people who dance under the same rainbow, it's also about liberation for everyone from prejudice and that really we can only open our eyes to a safe and more compassionate society if we listen to trans people and if we protect them.

And in my contribution, I want to particularly reflect what some of my constituents who are trans have said to me, because they have told me that they believe that too often their identities, their rights, their care that they receive is just separated completely from what they need. That too often we don't as politicians listen to what they have to say, but in so doing we don't realise that actually, while you can have contribution, we can have contributions in debate which talk about the difficulty trans people face.

We can also realise that the predominant narrative isn't one that's universally true. It isn't the case that all trans people are constantly suffering, depressed or impoverished. And here I would reference Suzanna, who lives in my constituency, who says I'm a very happy person leading an ordinary, productive and caring life. I am loved by my family, love by my friends. Trans people are doctors, accountants, craftspeople, nurses, teachers, pilots, shopkeepers, carers. We are good and decent people spread across the across the country leading productive lives.

And when we tell stories like my constituents, we're telling stories about real people, real families, and we're talking about the harms and the opportunities that society chooses to prevent or to permit. And in telling these stories, I also want to pay tribute to the parents of trans children, because often there's a toll that's taken on them when society at large seems to have it out for their kid, they have fierce, unwavering love, and often that's ignored. Their concerns go disregarded, and I want them to know, as they're watching this, that I am listening to their views, just as I'm listening to the views of their trans children.

And that's particularly important because while our sexual orientation or gender identity is not chosen by us being gay or trans openly, very much is a choice. And I could now be I could no more be straight than trans person could make themselves cisgender. The alternative is to stay in the closet, to feel shame. Wash over yourself. A shame that can lead to anxiety, to depression, and sometimes even suicide. Being gay. Being trans is about choosing yourself. That's the choice.

So when our opponents try to make the cost of choosing yourself unbearably high, too severe to bear when they try to make transgender people cisgender by denying them care or surgery, when they say that they seek to spare young people from medical care or surgery what they're effectively doing, while they don't say it, is implying that people can be cured, they can be cured of being transgender, that all it takes is the denial of gender affirming medical care or surgery to convert them.

And I think that's important to dwell on when we are, as a parliament, going to be considering, I think, very soon, a ban on conversion practices. We can ban the practices. We also have to realise that the rhetoric itself can be used in a way to attempt to convert, and opponents don't care about forcing a transgender person to be cisgender at all. They don't care about the danger involved. They don't care that it won't work, just they wouldn't see that forcing a gay person to be straight is dangerous and won't work.

So they don't realise that transgender people. And so I choose to support trans young people in making their own decisions about transition from early and more reversible options like changing your name or pronouns, or starting puberty blockers to less reversible options such as surgery, which will usually come later. I choose to support trans youth in deciding their own identity and future, because it's wrong to force them to identify with the sex they were assigned at birth. In fact, all of us here would choose to support anyone and everyone in deciding their identity to choose themselves, whatever that means, whatever that may be.

And when we don't do that, when we have politicians in this place who, on issues affecting trans people, will divide us with rhetoric that inflames and concerned about whether the things they say can be backed up by evidence. They're pursuing a politics which is based on scapegoating, not science. Yeah. And to those who say that this move can be contained to trans people, no, this trans people can never be sidelined or sacrificed because every human is entitled to dignity and respect.

And this comes through, in the words of Antonio, my constituent, who says, as a trans woman, all I want is to receive the same health care freedom and be able to live my life the same as everyone else. We work, we pay bills, we go shopping, we watch TV, and we have friends. We're not a cult or a freak show. And in the words of Miss the Phobia, whipped up towards the trans and gender nonconforming is so disproportionate to the small numbers of us and how unthreatening we are.

We're just trying to live our lives. So on its own terms, the argument falls apart when trans people are attacked. This isn't just harmful to trans people, it's about attacking trans people today with potentially a view to attacking other minorities tomorrow. History warns us what happens when the wave will be paved. The bar will be lowered for all minorities to be attacked. And because too many of us who are not trans or gay simply are not free in our society, in our country, to choose themselves in their everyday life, that is a problem.

So we all must support trans young people. And when we don't, it actually continues a problem that we have in our society, which is one of ignoring young people full stop. Whether it's about sexual orientation or gender or something else entirely. Younger people go and listen to. And when that happens, it has a hugely negative impact on them. We, all of us should choose to support trans and gay young people, but we should especially choose to support children and young people.

And for many young trans people, if we were to listen to them and enable them to choose, we would listen to what they have to say about puberty blockers, because puberty blockers are reversible, puberty isn't. Puberty blockers can stop the harms of an unwanted, irreversible puberty because children watch their bodies change in ways that might be difficult or impossible to undo later. And that's why it matters that young people don't miss the window in which blockers can prevent the irreversible physical changes of puberty, whilst simultaneously extending the diagnostic period.

In other words, blockers are a way to buy time to enable young people the choice and the freedom to explore their identity. Without the added stress of pubertal changes. And with blockers, children report feeling less anxious and more comfortable with themselves. Liberated from the constant dread of puberty, they can bring their focus back to the things that matter in childhood, to everyday life, to learning to socialise and to simply being kids. And we know that pubertal suppression can help the mental health of trans children.

I said, we need to be thinking about the science. Well, there's at least eight recent studies that link pubertal suppression to improve mental health, including a UK study that found improvements in overall psychological functioning for those who oppose and query what I say, look at Rosalina Costa's piece in the Journal of Sexual Medicine from 2015. Similarly, a study by a Harvard Medical School research group that found that adolescents who received puberty blockers had lower odds of experiencing suicidal ideation later in life compared with those who desired blockers but were unable to access them.

There's an article by Jack Turban in Paediatrics in 2020 which is comprehensive on this point, and this goes to the point that we need all policy decisions to be led by the clinical evidence. But we also need to be clear minded about what that means, because in clinical medicine, it can never be known for sure what an outcome will be for patients. Medicine is always a field of probabilities, not certainties. And this will be true of puberty blockers. And because they are hotly politicised, we have to be careful to hold puberty blockers to the same standards as all other medications.

We can't allow the debate to fixate only on the risks and unknowns for medications that are emotionally charged and heavily politicised in our country. And in closing, we need to do that because gender dysphoria is real. It can show up in serious ways, including eating disorder symptoms and other mental health struggles. And when we allow younger people and children to experience those harms, we are doing them a disservice. We are doing our society a disservice. So I hope that all politicians in this place will be led by the science.

I hope they'll be led by compassion, and I hope that with this Labour government, we won't just in the time before the next King's Speech, see the conversion practices ban come forward, but that over the course of this first term of a Labour government, we'll see a

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movement towards a trans person's civil Rights Act. Amen.

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Amen. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I want. To start by thanking my indefatigable friends, the members for Nottingham East and for Jarrow and Gateshead for leading this debate so well, I want to start by celebrating how far we have come. I was 14 in 1997 when Labour came to was 14 in 1997 when Labour came to power, and I already knew I was gay. From 1997 onwards, I recognised that politics did have a direct impact on my life.

The John Major government had already lowered the age of consent, though not equalised it in 1994. But it took a Labour government to lift the ban on lesbian, gay and bisexual people serving in the military from 2000 to equalise the age of consent in 2001, to repeal section 28. In 2003, to pass the Civil Partnership Act in 2004, and in the same year to pass the Gender Recognition Act to equalise abortion adoption rights for same sex couples in 2005, and to pass the Equality Act in 2010.

1997 was also the election which saw MPs for the first time elected as out gay politicians, including my predecessor as MP for Exeter, Sir Ben Bradshaw, who was the second elected by around an hour after the former member for Enfield Southgate. He faced the most
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Steve Race Portrait Steve Race MP (Exeter, Labour)
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appalling homophobic campaign in the Exeter campaign. But the people of Exeter saw through that and of Exeter saw through that and soundly elected him to be their MP. Truly, a corner had been turned in British society for our community. British society for our community. While all of the legislative changes, of course, come from this place, we must always remember that place, we must always remember that it is activists and campaigners and ordinary people, LGBTQ people and their families, friends and allies who have always had to make the case for equal rights from the outside in.

And as with many other communities, it is my job in this place to listen and act, to make sure that we continue on the path of equality in Exeter and across the southwest. That community network still thrives. The Intercom Trust is the Southwest LGBT+ charity that last year served over 4000 service users from Exeter, Plymouth and Truro offices, providing a free phone helpline, 1 to 1 support and advocacy, a domestic abuse and sexual violence support service, hate crime support, school groups, counselling and much more.

The first Exeter Pride event was held only in 2008 during LGBT+ History Month. That year, founders Alan Quick and Michael Hall hosted the event at Central Library. Another very good case of why libraries are so important in our communities. Featuring art displays, games for children, panel discussions and stalls. Alan still plays a vital role in the life of our city, not only publishing newspapers but also as a trustee of Inclusive Exeter. Indeed, just last Sunday, our fantastic Hong Kong community celebration of the Lunar New Year.

However, we also know that while progress has been rapid in the UK, it is not all one way. As the Member for Luton North referenced, hate crimes based on sexual orientation are up 44% in the last five years. And if you are trans, the statistics are worse and 88% rise in hate crimes. And indeed, the reform leader, the hon. Member for Clacton, has stated he did not support equal marriage at the time and declared it a wrong thing to

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have done and to have been brought in in that way. And I. I assume that the hon. Gentleman

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has mentioned another member. He has informed him. Madam Speaker, I absolutely did. I sent an email before this debate. I sent an email before this debate. Thank you. In the wake of the Supreme Court judgement and a relentless campaign against trans relentless campaign against trans people being waged in some quarters, with funding from outside this country flooding in to Stoke country flooding in to Stoke division, it has never been more important for people like me in positions such as the one. I have to say that I see trans people and I recognise your contribution in all areas of our society.

Trans people have always existed and will continue to exist and will do everything I can to stand with you to ensure that you can live your lives as equal citizens in our country. And that's also why I'm proud to be a Labour MP. Because while the political consensus fragments in some places and in some quarters, and in this place too and beyond, in the pursuit of headlines and knee jerk politics, I know that this government continues to stand on the side of equality and fairness.

Soon we will see draft legislation on a trans inclusive ban on conversion therapy, thanks to the work of the Minister, who is here with us today. My hon. Friend, the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedford has ensured we'll be legislating to make crimes motivated by prejudice against people because they are LGBT or have a disability, or because of their gender identity and aggravated hate crime. We're improving the experience of LGBT+ personnel and veterans of the armed forces and delivering financial recognition to LGBT veterans, per the review.

We're tackling HIV transmissions to make to meet our target of no new HIV transmissions by 2030. We're improving access to healthcare, and we're providing nearly half £1 million worth of specialist funding for LGBTQ+ focussed domestic violence services. We will continue to reject the politics of division and hate, and we will build on Labour's long history of fighting for equality. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, we must also look at the international situation and I want to thank the Elton John Aids Foundation and Kaleidoscope for their work and support in this area.

Since 1983, 84 countries have decriminalised consensual same sex relations and 65 have recognised marriage equality across Asia Taiwan in 2019, Nepal in 2023 and Thailand in 2025. They have all legalised same sex marriage in Africa, Botswana in 2019, Mauritius in 2023 and Namibia in 2024. They decriminalise same sex relations. New Zealand became the first country to recognise non-binary gender markers on passports. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh recognise hijra or third gender individuals, and globally we've also seen positive trends in adoption rights and legal gender recognition.

In 2016, after sustained campaigning by activists worldwide, the UN voted to create a mandate for the independent expert on sexual orientation and gender identity, which is a landmark moment in international human rights protection. But nearly a third of all nations, 65 still classify LGBTQ+ people as criminals, and homosexual homosexuality is punishable by death in 12 countries. In the last two years alone, several countries have passed passed harsh new laws targeting LGBT+ people. In 2024, Georgia banned gender transitions, legal gender recognition, pride events and LGBTQ plus symbols for the first time.

Mali criminalised homosexuality with punishments of up to seven years in prison in 2024. In the United States, over 500 anti-lgbtq+ bills were introduced, aiming to restrict trans rights and LGBTQ+ education. Burkina Faso's government passed a law in September 2025 banning homosexuality, with those found guilty facing 2 to 5 years in prison, according to the state broadcaster. The draft law was unanimously passed by 71 unelected members of the country's transitional government, which has been in place since the military seized power.

And in late 2025, Ghana parliamentarians reintroduced a bill to criminalise identifying as LGBTQ with penalties of up to three years in prison funding or forming an LGBTQ related group would be punished by up to five years in prison. I recently met LGBT activists from Hong Kong and Botswana who talked to me about the repression that communities in those places still face and the support that they receive from kaleidoscope, and the funding for programs from for programs that comes from FCDO at Oda programs, which are vital to some communities around the world because LGBT rights are not just a nice to have, they are fundamental to human rights, and they're fundamental to healthy societies, too.

For the first time since UNAids began reporting on punitive laws a decade ago, the number of countries criminalising same sex sexual activity and gender expression has increased. An analysis of data from ten countries in sub-Saharan Africa found that HIV prevalence among gay and bisexual and other men who have sex with men in countries that criminalise same sex relations is five times higher than in non criminalised settings. Now, I'm proud that the UK is leaning in yet again and supporting the Global Fund to eradicate HIV and other conditions, with an £850 million new pledge to the Global Fund.

But as Elton John and David Furnish pointed out in a recent independent op ed, the force which enabled Aids to become a global catastrophe was not immunological. It was fear and apathy, stigma, homophobia and transphobia play as big a role in health epidemics as the virus and the healthcare system itself. And that's why pride still matters. It's why LGBT History Month still matters. Because while we achieve so much in the UK, we still need to fight to retain our rights here.

And because around the world, homophobia and inequality still exists and it hurts individuals and it hurts communities. The UK has a vital role to play, in part because of our historical context of colonialism in supporting the progress toward a more equal world. And I'm proud to say that I believe we will continue to do so. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Marie Goldman. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like.

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Deputy Speaker, I'd like. To start by thanking the hon. Members for Nottingham East and for Jarrow and Gateshead East for Jarrow and Gateshead East for bringing this really, really important debate. And I'd like to thank both of them for their amazing contributions and in amazing contributions and in particular, if I may say, the hon. Member for Nottingham East, for her particularly powerful and passionate opening opening speech. I'd also like to thank some of the other hon. Members who have contributed to this.

Now, I won't speak about all of them, but I wanted to single out, if I may, the hon. Member for Luton North, who I felt spoke incredibly passionately, and I can see the empathy and compassion that she holds for this subject as we've been listening to the whole debate. So I wanted to thank her for that. The Member for Glasgow North, he spoke about lived experience and reminding us about history, and also reminding us that history isn't done yet, that we've still got a long way to go, and we are creating it every single day.

Several members have pointed out that progress is not permanent, and I think what we have seen over recent years completely underlines the importance that we need to carry on fighting and never take anything for granted. And I also wanted to thank the the member, the hon. Member for Bournemouth East, who reminded us it should be obvious, right? But we cannot change people. People are who they are and to pretend to do otherwise

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is harmful and it's cruel and we must fight against it. Amen.

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Amen. As equality and inclusion are being undermined both at home and abroad, it becomes ever more important to reflect on and important to reflect on and celebrate the historic achievements of LGBTQ+ individuals and LGBTQ+. of LGBTQ+ individuals and LGBTQ+. History Month gives us the chance to do exactly that. And as members have noted with great pride, have noted with great pride, British history features a remarkable diversity of gender and sexuality. The theme of this year's LGBT+ History Month, Science and Innovation, encourages us to celebrate the many contributions of LGBTQ+ people in shaping the modern world, from the infamous computer scientist Alan Turing, who changed technology literally forever, to John Maynard Keynes enormous contribution to economic thought to those closer to home like Barbara Burford.

Recognise this LGBT+ History Month for her innovation in public service and healthcare leadership as a medical researcher, writer and equality champion, her work helped shape the NHS approaches approach to diversity and inclusion, showing that genuine innovation also emerges through systems, policies and organisational culture. LGBT+ History Month also reminds us of the historical harms inflicted on the community through the medicalisation and pathologization of their identities. I also want to take the opportunity to highlight that this month coincides with football.

Football versus Homophobia Month, originally established by the Justin Foundation to tackle anti-lgbtq+ discrimination in football in memory of the UK's first out professional footballer, Justin Fashanu, the month remembers and celebrates those who have been trailblazers in the beautiful game, whilst encouraging fans and clubs to share the football for everyone message and reaffirm their commitment to create safe and welcoming spaces in which in which LGBTQ+ people can flourish. It is only in the past 30 years, owing to the tireless advocacy of LGBTQ+ individuals and campaign groups, that we have come to recognise and correct these injustices.

And it is by acknowledging this history that we can build ethical medical practice and inclusive institutions for the future. I'm proud to say that my party, the Liberal Democrats, have a long legacy of leading the fight for LGBTQ equality. It was the Liberal Democrats, for instance, who led the repeal of section 28, introduced by the Conservatives in 1988, which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality by local authorities and schools and had been stifling LGBTQ+ representation for 15 years. The Liberal Democrats were also instrumental in securing the legislation of same sex marriage during the coalition government.

We designed the Alan Turing Law as part of the 2017 Policing and Crime Act, which granted posthumous pardons for more than 49,000 men convicted of gross indecency. And it is the Liberal Democrats who continue to push agreed cross-party for an immediate, full and inclusive ban on conversion therapy, covering both sexual orientation and gender identity without loopholes. We have always been a champion of LGBTQ+ equality, and it's one of the reasons many why I am proud to be in this party.

This was again brought home to me last year during the Essex Pride parade through the High Street in my Chelmsford constituency. It was an honour, as I had done in previous years, to be at the front of the parade, carrying one of the rather large balloon sculptures that formed the words Essex Pride. And to be part of such a joyful celebration of human diversity and of the advances made towards LGBTQ+ inclusion. Yet despite past progress towards LGBTQ+ equality in Britain, the community still experiences discrimination and harassment on a daily basis.

And there's evidence it's getting worse. As the Member for Nottingham East highlighted with devices extremist rhetoric on the rise, we are slipping backwards in this country. In 2025, the UK fell six places to 20 to 20 second on Ilga Europe's LGBTQ+ rights ranking. To put that into context, we were number 1 in 2015, as referenced by the Member for Luton North, hate crimes have nearly
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Marie Goldman Portrait Marie Goldman MP (Chelmsford, Liberal Democrat)
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doubled in the past five years. Research from Stonewall conducted Research from Stonewall conducted by Opinium found that in 2025, less than half of LGBTQ+ people felt safe holding their partner's hand safe holding their partner's hand in public in the workplace. It's a similar story. Research found that similar story. Research found that almost 40% of LGBTQ+ employees hide their identity at work. Meanwhile, their identity at work. Meanwhile, around two thirds of trans people experience harassment and violence simply because they were identified as trans.

That's appalling. Indeed, it goes without saying. This past year has been a difficult time for the LGBTQ+ community, and an especially worrying and upsetting period for our trans and non-binary friends here in the UK. Following last April's Supreme Court ruling. Like many other members, I have received heartbreaking stories from trans and non-binary constituents, fearful of being of even being able to participate in public life. It's simply not acceptable that everyone's rights, trans and non-binary included, appear to be not deserving of the same respect and recognition as everyone else.

That's why liberal Democrats have been clear that the leaked Ehrc code of practice was deeply flawed, and we have since called for new, inclusive and workable guidance. It should also be subject to full parliamentary scrutiny, including debate and a vote. I will give way.

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For giving way and and for making that point. And when talking about issues about trans rights, it's so important to consider the it's so important to consider the very real trans people behind statistics and arguments. Lastly, I met with my constituent Hannah, a met with my constituent Hannah, a trans woman, to discuss her experience of transitioning. She told me about the very real impact told me about the very real impact the erosion of trans rights would have on her, including the indignity, shame and difficulty it would bring.

Yet, too often, voices would bring. Yet, too often, voices like hers are shut out of our conversation at the expense of those who can shout the loudest. So would bound friend agree with me that we need to find mechanisms for voices like Hannah's to be given the prominence they rightfully deserve in this conversation, so that all our trans constituents can

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continue to live dignified lives. I thank the hon. Member for his intervention and for reminding us intervention and for reminding us that this is about people. They're not statistics. They are people whose everyday experiences and everyday lives are being harmed by the decisions that are being made the decisions that are being made right now. And the awful, appalling, divisive rhetoric that is coming from some parts of the community from some parts of the community and in particular from some parts of the political community.

We must fight against it. And I thank him very much for reminding us that this is very much about people, and their voices absolutely must be heard. So as we celebrate LGBTQ+ History Month and reflect on the historical achievements of LGBTQ+ individuals, we must also look forward, challenge prejudice wherever it appears, and recognise our responsibility as Members of Parliament to continue to push for LGBTQ+ equality. Shadow Minister.
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Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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Yeah, yeah yeah. >> Yeah, yeah yeah. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it's always a pleasure to speak on behalf of His Majesty's loyal opposition. And I particularly welcome the debate with it being LGBT History Month on this year's importance. Important theme, which was highlighted by many people this afternoon around science and innovation. These sectors are absolutely vital to our economy and to all our wellbeing, from technology to business to our environment and crucially, our healthcare.

Today we celebrate all LGBT people, past and present, who contribute so much and I too am a proud ally and friend, typically to my hon. Friend from Hamble Valley, of course, and we can't sit here all afternoon not get mentioned. And in that spirit, I would of course like to welcome the opening of the debate from the hon. Lady from Nottingham East and her positivity and opening up and highlighting the international situation, which I think is crucially been done this afternoon.

And the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East easy for me to say. She talked about being an out and queer woman and it was lovely to hear her words once again. And funnily enough, I saw uncle Frank last night. Just to let you know, the former East Grinstead mayor and long serving conservative councillor, in the spirit of the debate today and focussed around science and innovation. I think it was absolutely right that Alan Turing was mentioned in the debate today.

A man who diligently served his country, used his great mind, along with many others to crack the Enigma code, helping us to win the war. People say his work and those in Bletchley shorten the Second World War by years, saving very many lives. A true war hero. And what was his reward? Well, he was prosecuted for simply being gay. He would be very sadly going on to take his own life and his death. And that shames our country's history.

Today, rightly, of course, he is celebrated on our £50 note. If anyone's seen one of those recently, that's good to know. In 2017 under the Conservatives, what of course came forward was the the Turing law, the Alan Turing law, which pardoned men who were cautioned or convicted under historical legislation that outlawed homosexual acts. And I'm very proud it was the Conservatives who acted and delivered on this important change. And other highlights have been raised this afternoon just to to the hon.

Lady from Luton North, the chair of the Select Committee, rightly celebrating queer icons too. And I just like to take a moment to mention the Member for Bridlington and the Wolds, who she highlighted regarding the the debate. I am keen, and he is to point out that he was in this chamber and realised his diary needs were to be in Westminster Hall, so that was his frustration. I'd like to put it on record that absolutely. Regarding her previous comments.

So compassion is not rightly confined, confined to any party, and nor should it be. Now the hon. Lady from Stratford and Bow talked about a full and happy and dignified life for all, and I think that's exactly what we're celebrating this afternoon. And the hon. Lady for North Warwickshire and Bedworth rightly spoke about equality being an ongoing battle, speaking powerfully, particularly on service people, veterans, our armed forces community. We all have constituents who this matters particularly greatly to.

Madam Deputy Speaker, who served and given so much. So the work of fighting with pride is to be welcomed. And also the highlight from the RBL. Madam Deputy Speaker, football has been mentioned today. Many here I'm sure, will have been utterly shocked and disgusted to see the German referee, Pascal Kaiser, who was assaulted in his own home just a week after his public proposal to his boyfriend the day before he was attacked. He received threats and his address was leaked. And we talk about this international situation.

It's a terrible reminder of the threats, intimidation and acts of violence that people face in sport and across society today for being who they are and celebrating who they love. This was a joyous celebration, an act of love and real commitment, and was shortly followed by homophobia and hatred by others. I hope, and I'm sure we're all in this house. Send our regards to him and his fiancee. Our thoughts are with them and we wish them well for the future, in the happiness in their marriage and their life together.

Now, I'm proud it was the conservative government that brought in the same sex Marriage Act. Nothing more conservative than bringing together family and people to make a solemn promise of love and commitment to each other. And it is us who also want everyone to be true to themselves, to love who they love without the state getting in the way. And we made significant positive impact to the rights and lives of gay men, lesbian women and bisexual people so that they can take that public commitment in front of their friends and family to show how they love and are committed to each other.

And this is something we on this side of the house and all of us should be very proud of. It would be remiss for me to not be at the box and talk about Jed and Elliot's marriage. It is July the 4th this year, an update. It's definitely happening and one of the best things we're all going, aren't we? And one of the best things to happen over Christmas for me to, was to be able to be at the celebration of Brad and Tom's

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wedding as well. And Madam Deputy, of course. I can't lady, for giving way. She's talking about the introduction of same sex marriage. introduction of same sex marriage. I want to really emphasise this as a moment of cross-party history. It a moment of cross-party history. It was Baroness Featherstone for the Liberal Democrats who, as part of a coalition government working with coalition government working with the Conservatives, that introduced that legislation and it was carried overwhelmingly by Labour MPs. So overwhelmingly by Labour MPs.

So would she recognise that this is an example of cross-party consensus behind LGBT rights, and we should

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celebrate that. And I'm delighted it was the conservative Prime Minister that I conservative Prime Minister that I came in under that drove it through, and it truly was cross-party. and it truly was cross-party. Absolutely. I very much would agree. And I think we're all today it's not a one upmanship. It's a not a one upmanship. It's a celebrating our party, our place and all of the work that we do where we can. And Madam Deputy Speaker, it brings me on to the fact that I had the joy of headlining and co deejaying the Conservative Party Conference 2025 LGBT closing party.

It was the 50 year celebration. People described it as similar to deejaying and a peloton class. It struck me that that event in at conference. And of course, we also have the Terrence Higgins Trust reception, another staple of our party conference calendar and hearing, of course, at those events from those members of our party. And I'm sure this has happened across many parties who had previously had to meet in secret because they had to. So looking to today, as we celebrate in conference with the one of our most popular events, it really shows deep pride and change that we've all seen.

Gives me the opportunity to turn to HIV testing. What? The first one was funded under a conservative government, and I'm pleased to say I got tested. Like I'm sure many people here in Parliament this week. It was quick, it was easy, and it was important to remind people to show their status, that they can get treatment and peace of mind for themselves and their loved ones. And it rightly tackles the stigma which remains. The Member for Glasgow North talked about how previously mention of the gay plague and the stigma.

So I would encourage people to sign up to get a test online and have it delivered to your door. Whether it's in my constituency, East Grinstead and Uckfield, in The Villages, Sussex or the whole of the United Kingdom, being rural or being far away from a sexual health clinic should not hold you back from being able to get tested and stay safe. And I do welcome the updated HIV strategy, which of course is building on previous heavy lifting by ourselves. Of course, 2014 legalised self-testing kits for HIV.

It was rolled out in 2015. And then of course the Prep trial in 2017. It gives me an opportunity to point out that women and older people and ethnic minorities, all groups who are more likely to get diagnosed late, please take the test and look after yourself. And may I thank all the charities campaigning groups because we all want to say the same thing. Please, indeed love who you love and make sure that you take advantages of the opportunities that are out there.

And one of the key areas as well is to be more ambitious in terms of prep usage, to really get to that goal that we are all committed to, of ending new HIV cases. Finally, may I say, and I've said this previously, especially to my constituents. And as we head to Valentine's Day, we all need to be clear. No matter what political party you're here for, no matter who you are, where you live, who you love, you should never feel unsafe or worried about who you are.

We will always work together to strive for dignity, inclusion and compassion. Of course. Just finally, I.

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Thank the hon. Member for giving way and for for talking passionately about the the things passionately about the the things that that her party helped to, to introduce. So I would just like to ask her whether her party will be supporting moves to make sure that supporting moves to make sure that hate crime against all LGBT people is treated as an aggravated offence when that comes forward. In the

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other place. My understanding is people are already charged and hate crimes should be acted on no matter who it happens to. I don't think we should see it in any other way. In fact, it brings me to my final comments, which I hope that she will find helpful. This is no time to step back when it comes to supporting equality and no time for division.
14:53
Olivia Bailey Portrait Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)
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Thank you, thank you Minister. >> Thank you, thank you Minister. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm really proud to be able to contribute to what has been a really important annual tradition and proud to be able to do so. As and proud to be able to do so. As the Minister for LGBT+ equality. And I would like to thank my friends, the hon. Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East and Nottingham East for sponsoring this debate this afternoon, and I applaud them both for their tireless work advocating for the LGBT+ community and for their powerful and important speeches this afternoon.

This has been a fantastic debate today, packed with pride and heartwarming stories. Or, in the words of the motto from the LGBT Foundation, who I visited earlier this week in Manchester and promised I'd get on the record. It has been a debate full of queer hope and joy. My friend the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East talked about out northeast and the new One centre in her constituency. I'm very much looking forward to visiting and indeed to visiting the Osborne Room.

My friends, the Member for Stratford and Bow, for Glasgow North and the Cities of London. Westminster told wonderful stories about LGBT history in their constituency and also the wonderful LGBT spaces in their constituencies. Although I will say to my friend the member of Westminster, I was asked the other day to reflect on my favourite queer space and sadly realised that as a firmly middle aged lesbian with two children, my favourite queer space is now my living room, my friend the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth told some wonderful stories in her speech, but in particular remembering the King opening the Armed Forces Memorial, which was a really powerful moment, and my friend the Member for Exeter talked, made a powerful reminder of the difference that progress has made

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to his life and the life of his constituents. Thank the Minister for

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Thank the Minister for celebrating and for acknowledging many of the contributions that other members have made. And and other members have made. And and one I wanted to make quickly was Graham and Vinny from King's Hall Road in Beckenham and Penge hold a Pride Street party every summer and Pride Street party every summer and it gets bigger and bigger every year. They had the London Gay Men's Chorus amongst the entertainment this year, and several cardboard this year, and several cardboard cut-outs of Kylie Minogue.

Well over 1000 people attended and as well as a day of fun, I believe it also sends a really powerful and important message of tolerance and

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inclusion. Would the Minister agree? I absolutely would agree. I thank him for sharing that with us thank him for sharing that with us and I congratulate them for all of their work. But Madam Deputy Speaker, there has also been a Speaker, there has also been a consistent theme in the contributions this afternoon, and that's the stories that many members have told of the fear, the shame and the anxiety being felt by many of their LGBT+ constituents, many of their LGBT+ constituents, particularly their trans constituents.

The Member for Bournemouth East made a powerful speech on the cost of being yourself and the importance of listening to trans young people. The Member for Luton North made an important speech about the political weaponization of our identities, and some saying that families like mine are less stable. And Madam Deputy Speaker, these stories are painful to hear. And I want to say very, very clearly that I recognise the fear and the anxiety that LGBT+ people are feeling at the moment. I feel it, but this government will always stand with LGBT+ people against the politics of division and hate, and we will protect and extend LGBT+ rights.

Madam Deputy Speaker, there were a wide range of other contributions in this afternoon's debate. A number of colleagues mentioned the Ehrc guidance and asked for updates on timings. And I will just say the government is considering this very carefully and we'll bring it forward as soon as we're able to do so. On hate crime and the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth in particular, who herself has been a powerful campaigner on this issue, talked about the government's proud commitment on this and I am looking forward to the government equalising the hate crime laws in the House of Lords on conversion practices.

A number of members, including the Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill, who gave a powerful speech on the damage that conversion practices do. And let me be clear, they are abuse and this government will ban them and I and on the timelines. I'm working on this legislation with the urgency that everybody in this House expects of me and will bring it

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forward as soon as possible. I thank the Minister for giving way. I just wondered whether she way. I just wondered whether she would take this opportunity to congratulate the Member for Jarrow congratulate the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead, who two weeks ago took a very delicate and sensitive motion report through the Council motion report through the Council of Europe and managed to to receive support pretty much across the chamber, with the exception of the hard right.

I just wondered whether she on conversion therapy on on the abuse of conversion practices. And she did it with such sensitivity

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and and skill. I just wondered whether it was an opportunity to to thank her for doing that. I'm extremely grateful to him

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I'm extremely grateful to him for for giving me that opportunity because I have congratulated my hon. Friend and congratulate her again on the record for her important on the record for her important work on this vital topic. My friend the Member for Llanelli. Did I do OK? I've been in trouble with my pronunciation before and I pronunciation before and I apologise, but I would also just like to take the opportunity to thank her for her phenomenal work as my predecessor in this role.

But but she rightly challenged me to make the most of the Idaho conference that we will host next year, and I would like to take that challenge from her and say that we will absolutely commit. And I'll say some more in my speech in a moment. Madam Deputy Speaker, on days like today, I am reminded of the consequence of this place. It was hon. Members like us in this very chamber, as we've heard, who decriminalised homosexuality, who scrapped section 28 and who legalised equal marriage.

But it was also here in this chamber where those laws were first made. And for me, that is an important reminder of the fragility of our progress, of the importance of our role. And in this place, we must never forget how important it is to make the case for our rights. And hon. Members today have done that brilliantly. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am very proud to be a member of the gayest Parliament ever and to be a member of a government that will advance LGBT+ rights.

We've righted the historic wrongs committed against LGBT veterans, funded LGBT+ VAWG services and pledged to end HIV transmissions by 2030. And Madam Deputy Speaker, this morning I visited the fantastic 56 Dean Street in my hon. Friend's constituency to take in our HIV test myself to mark HIV testing Week, and I would like to thank the staff at 56 Dean Street for their fantastic work and encourage all hon. Members to encourage their constituents to go online and get a free HIV test this week.

Madam Deputy Speaker, whilst I am proud of the things we have done, I am also most proud of the things that we will do. Fulfilling our manifesto commitment to equalise hate crime laws, bringing forward our trans inclusive ban on conversion practices and supporting LGBT+ rights on the world stage, funding global LGBT+ partnerships and next year proudly hosting the 2027 European Idaho Forum. Taking our place on the world stage in the fight for LGBT+ equality. And I'm looking forward to doing all of this in partnership with our wonderful LGBT+ sector, who I was delighted to invite into Downing Street to meet the Prime Minister the other week.

Madam Deputy Speaker in LGBT History Month, we are encouraged to remember the iconic trailblazers who fought for our rights like Mark Ashton, Maureen Colhoun, Chris Smith, Roberta Carol, the Tower Hamlets lesbian and Gay group, and others that we've heard about today. But I think it's also important that we remember the people who didn't make it into the history books, because our history is a history of everyday resistance, of courage, people choosing to link hands in the street, people choosing to stand up for their community, people choosing pride over shame.

And I think it's important that we remember that everything we do in this place is built on that courage, and that courage is needed now more than ever around the world.

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Hostility. For the Minister for giving way. She no doubt will want to pay She no doubt will want to pay tribute to the late Lord Etherton and the excellent work that Lord and the excellent work that Lord Etherton did in his review. In 2023. There were 49 recommendations in that review, and I just wondered that review, and I just wondered what progress the government is making on that. But she will know, and I've Madam Deputy Speaker got and I've Madam Deputy Speaker got permission from the right hon.

Lady for Islington South and Finsbury. We've working cross-party to try and get at least some sort of new review to look at the UK intelligence community, because of course, the Etherton review did not look at the intelligence agencies. It may well have touched on the Defence intelligence, defence Intelligence, but not the other members of the UK intelligence community. So could you update us on the 49 recommendations, and would you join me in a cross-party spirit as saying hopefully somewhere in government there will be space to look at those courageous men and women that

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served in our intelligence community between 1967 and 2000, and get justice for them. I thank him for that

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I thank him for that intervention. I do pay tribute to to Lord Easington. I do say that to Lord Easington. I do say that the government is do say the government is driving forward and all of the recommendations from that review, and I'd be delighted to meet with him on the important to meet with him on the important points he makes and of course, to work cross-party on this important work cross-party on this important issue. Madam Deputy Speaker, as I said, that courage is needed now more than ever around the world.

Hostility and violence are rising. Hard won protections are being rolled back. For the first time in recent years, the number of jurisdictions that criminalise LGBT+ people has risen from 62 to 65. In the past year alone. And in this country, LGBT+ people are facing new and evolving challenges. I've spoken to LGBT+ organisations across the country about the rise of dangerous chemsex, online harassment, mental health concerns and overwhelmed support services. And in our politics, we are contending with the rise of a populist right which thrives on the politics of division.

But Madam Deputy Speaker, we will stand against the politics of division and hate, because what our history teaches us is that as our stories are our own, claimed and retold by us, not just to remember, but as a rallying call to never lose hope, that love and pride will conquer fear and prejudice. We will honour the courage of those who have come before us and leave this place. Better for those who come after us. And I will be very proud to work with you all to do it.



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Yes. Nadia Whittome to quickly wind

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Nadia Whittome to quickly wind up. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I had no idea that I was expected I had no idea that I was expected to wind up. The. There's no need to wind up if the honourable if the wind up if the honourable if the hon. Member doesn't want to thank everyone so much for taking part in the debate. Everyone made
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15:07
Helen Morgan Portrait Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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since Christmas because of overrunning government business. And I also need to declare my interest as chair of the all party interest as chair of the all party parliamentary Group on Digital Communities. Now, as an MP and resident in one of the most rural resident in one of the most rural rural constituencies in England, I know from first hand experience just how frustrating it is when just how frustrating it is when you're trying to call your office or your family from a mobile phone, whether you are at home, whether whether you are at home, whether you're travelling around by car, outside, in the countryside or more rarely, I have to say by travelling by train or bus, there is always a significant chance that you won't be able to make a phone call or connect to the internet.

And this has a very real impact on my constituents lives. Stories of people being forced to sit in the loft or standing in the one spot with signal in the garden, regardless of the weather, would sometimes be verging on comical if they weren't so serious. Because when you are waiting for your GP to call you, or for your disabled daughter to tell you that they've made it to work OK, or you're in your 90s and you've been left without power or heating. This situation is not funny at all.

In the words of Terrence, a disabled 80 year old veteran, he said, what is really annoying is that I'm paying the same amount for my unreliable mobile service. That someone in an area with good mobile signal pays. This week, I asked people to share their experiences of mobile single with a single Facebook post. Within a day, 400 people had commented to share how awful it is in their area. Whether you're in Saint Martin's or Selattyn and Welshampton or War, it's the same incredibly frustrating story, another constituent said finding 4G is like striking gold.

And it's not just North Shropshire where reliable signal is such a rare commodity. It's the same in rural areas up and down the country. Elderly residents in sheltered accommodation are forced into digital isolation out of contact with their families. Others have forked out for the privilege of playing provider bingo. As another constituent explains, our adult daughter has a disability and learning issues, so having a good signal is imperative to us. Because of this, all three of us are on different networks EE, O2 and Vodafone so that we can work the system and find the best signal available at additional cost.

To us. This might have been acceptable 20 years ago, when mobile phones were a novel piece of technology, and you could rely on letters and landlines. But in 2026, when your landline has been switched to digital and Royal Mail reaches once a week or even once a fortnight, this isn't simply good enough. Mobile phones are an essential part of daily life life. Yet huge swathes of the country are being forced to cope with a substandard service. Not only do people have to put up with awful coverage, they have to put up with being gaslighted by the companies who tell them that their signal is just fine.

One of the biggest issues that come up comes up time and time again, both as the MP for North Shropshire and chair of the APPG on Digital Communities is the often false mapping data provided by the industry to Ofcom. In July, the River Severn Partnership Advanced Wireless Innovation Region, which is funded by DSIT, conducted the UK's largest independent survey of mobile coverage in partnership with Street Wave and supported by over 30 councils through the use of their bin lorry routes. That report confirmed the significant difference between Ofcom's view of the mobile network capability and the real world experience that those of us in rural areas endure.

If we look at areas without good voice capability from at least one of the four network operators, Ofcom stated that this applied to 1.45% of geographical areas, while the River Severn Partnership showed its 15.33% of postcodes. And that's a huge difference. I will give way

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to the hon. Gentleman. To the hon. Lady giving way, my fellow Shropshire MP, part of my fellow Shropshire MP, part of my constituency, as she will know, used to be her constituency and she will also know that there are lots will also know that there are lots of small rural businesses that really rely on connectivity. Not really rely on connectivity. Not just broadband, but cellular connectivity and being able to take connectivity and being able to take and make telephone calls.

So would she support me in my call, which I've previously done with the Minister to ensure that Ofcom require greater transparency and greater integrity in the data that the mobile companies are providing to all of our constituents, and, more importantly, that Ofcom are more robust and will take action

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when they think that that data is not as accurate as it could be. Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, the hon. Gentleman and indeed my constituency neighbour makes an extremely good point. And the quality of that data is critical. And one of the recommendations of the APPG has made is exactly that point to ensure that data is reliable and that Ofcom can challenge it where that Ofcom can challenge it where they know it's it's inadequate. So we had this huge difference of areas without good voice capability. And Ofcom says Street Waves findings are.

Disputed because of the methodology that they used. But the experience of those of us who live in rural areas suggests that it's Ofcom that are wrong. It's no good telling people their service is good when their own phone is telling them it isn't. Unless Ofcom establishes clear requirements to define the quality of services that networks must deliver, how can we ensure real regulatory accountability? Put simply, Ofcom on the government must do more, and I welcome the government's recognition of the need to improve coverage, reporting and in the stage of strategic priorities it published yesterday.

But at the moment we don't have the information we need. Now, I don't know about you, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I think people in rural areas are generally sick to death of being told to believe they've never had it so good. Discounting their own daily experience, last year, Ofcom increased the accuracy of its mapping data by zoning in on smaller areas. However, if network operators don't have accurate data about the areas that need improvement and we think that they don't, then investment is unlikely to be made in the areas of greatest need.

The Shared Rural Network initiative, which has delivered, I have to say, no noticeable improvement in my area, involved the then four mobile network operators spending half £1 billion of their money to end partial hotspots, based on the Ofcom data that has now been superseded, and that, we all suspect is a bit on the dodgy side now. EE, which is obviously the same company as BT and Openreach, already had an extensive network of mobile masts and it met its obligations in advance of the June 2024 deadline for the Shared Rural Network.

While other operators experienced delays. Now some of the causes are difficult to overcome. It's difficult to get planning permission for a new mast. There's a lack of planning resource in local authorities. There are logistical challenges of building mass in remote and rural areas, and there are issues over access to land. But another part of the problem was that E didn't share access to its masts because it failed to reach agreement with the other mobile network operators. Now, that was a commercial negotiation into which I don't have insight, but the reality is that better coverage could have been achieved simply through effective equipment sharing.

My Access to Telecommunications bill looked to fix this by requiring telecommunications companies to share their equipment and penalising them if they do not, and in areas where they didn't, to require people to be able to roam between networks, as we're all familiar with, if we travel abroad

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to Europe now, this was I will. I'm grateful to her for giving way because it's on this point about EU and access to masts. It would be wrong, I think, to let this moment pass without reflecting this moment pass without reflecting on the fact that e have the network of masts that they have, because of of masts that they have, because of significant public money being invested, because they got the contract for the emergency services contract for the emergency services network, does not impose on them a duty to do something more than

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merely a commercial negotiation in relation to other companies. Well, the hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Actually, my hon. good point. Actually, my hon. Friend, I should say, and and right hon. Friend, and I'll get it right hon. Friend, and I'll get it right in a moment. My right hon. Friend makes a very, very good point about the use of public money and how we develop infrastructure that's fit for the modern age as part of a for the modern age as part of a public and private operation.

So rural roaming is where I was getting to, and this was opposed by the industry. But these measures were recommended by the Select Committee in its report in 2019. And I'm still convinced that if government is serious about enabling economic growth in rural areas, it should explore this option. My constituent, Rob Paul, a consultant with vast experience in rural telecoms projects, suggests that robustly enforce financial penalties are the only things that operators will respond to and after years of being let down, I would disagree with him.

Now, turning to the digital switchover, mobile phones have been cited as the default backup option in a power cut once the landline network is switched off, which it has been over most of the UK. Now, this is hugely concerning. If your area is prone to extensive power cuts in winter storms. Because we're rural, our power is not put back online as a priority. And while backup batteries for routers will last for a couple of hours, maybe up to 12 people in remote parts of North Shropshire are sometimes left without power for several days.

Now, if you're at home on your own in the dark and frightened, you might be able to want, you might want to be able to call someone other than the emergency services in the event of a power cut. So it's crucial that people can access their mobile phone and have a reliable signal, whoever they are, when the power is down. 190 year old constituent told me that she purchased a phone due to concern about the digital switchover, and wanted to ensure that she was still able to make calls in the event of a power cut.

But the mobile connection in her village of knockin is so bad that she was never once able to use the phone, and when she asked EE to end the contract, they required £293 to release her. And it's not just power cuts either. Hundreds of people in Kinnerley and Ellesmere have been left without any service at all when their broadband Cabinet has been taken out by other factors, like a fire or a car accident. Peter, who lives in Whittington, has a terminal lung disease.

Last weekend his internet went down for 12 hours. This also meant that his landline was down and there was no mobile signal at his home. If Peter had had an emergency, he would have had no one to turn to. Improving rural phone signal wouldn't just help vulnerable individuals, it would help local businesses grow the economy and help our health and social care system. Smart phones are an essential part of daily modern life. Whether you're a GP patient needing to book an appointment or request a repeat prescription, or a small business owner needing to take a customer payment, I've spoken to countless elderly people who struggle to access key services and heard from farmers, landscape gardeners, taxi drivers and dog groomers whose businesses all suffer due to signal problems.

One livestock and arable farmer told me I cannot express strongly enough how frustrating it is farming in the modern world. It is depressing the amount of time wasted walking around the yard, trying to get a small signal to answer the phone. If someone gets injured, there's no way of contacting the emergency services or for other help, and vast sums have to be spent to help tractor

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GPS systems navigate the inconsistent signal. I will. I'm grateful to the hon. Lady and she's. I congratulate her on moving this very important debate. So I represent a rural area like So I represent a rural area like hers in Lincolnshire, and it's really appalling. In some world villages in deep valleys, there's villages in deep valleys, there's no mobile connection. And of course all the red telephone boxes are all the red telephone boxes are being closed. And it's a tremendous struggle to persuade BT to keep them open.

So I wonder whether we could do more work with councils like West Lindsey on their voucher scheme and Project Gigabyte to try and really get into those last hard to reach areas? And can we encourage the government through this debate to put resources into helping district councils like West

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Lindsey? Well, the honourable. Gentleman makes a really, really good point, and we could have had good point, and we could have had another three hour debate, I think, on Project Gigabit and its shortcomings. I am going to mention shortcomings. I am going to mention it, but I totally agree with him that you can't really consider mobile coverage and broadband separately. They are two parts of the same thing, and the areas that have the worst broadband signal have the worst broadband signal tend to have the worst mobile signal as well.

So it's it's a very difficult problem to resolve. I was where was I saying so. So modern farming requires modern technology and if the signal is inadequate, it doesn't work for them. And being able to rely on broadband would help those who work in an office. But just 50% of rural commercial buildings in north Shropshire have access to full fibre. The announcement of Project Gigabit gave us a, you know, real hope. But after two years the contract was handed back with just three and a half of the planned 12,000 properties connected.

The word Madam Deputy Speaker I would use to describe Project Gigabit is a shambles. My other adjective choice adjectives of choice of unsuitable for the chamber. We're still waiting for details of when the rest will be delivered, but meanwhile we continue to pay exorbitant prices for mediocre broadband because Openreach and other companies neglect to invest in our area. Across the House, members are calling for a change in direction for rural digital infrastructure. I'm just conscious of time, so I'm going to just speed up slightly.

Essentially, gaps in mobile and broadband coverage threaten to undermine national ambitions. And my report from the APPG on Digital Communities highlights how coordinated action to address these challenges and unlock the full potential of the UK's digital infrastructure is crucial for rural areas, but it's also crucial for growth in the rest of the UK as well. Successive governments have failed to grasp it and just look at the emergency services network, which should have been introduced in 2017. And nearly a decade on, we're still waiting for it to be properly rolled out.

The government's ambition is to have high quality 5G in all populated areas by 2030, yet we rank 30th out of 39 developed economies, according to the Social Market Foundation. We know we're lagging miles behind and we're still trying to make up the ground. And in Shropshire, we'd be grateful for consistent 4G. People who live in rural areas pay the same or even higher fees than people in towns. In return for a second rate service. We must be given the connections we need to reliably access modern life.

But successive governments have treated rural places with disdain, telling us that everything is great when we can see for ourselves that it's not. It will bring far more money into the Treasury and unlock the huge potential of the rural economy, if the government will finally see sense. So I hope that the Minister will address the abject failure of the Shared Rural Network in gigabit projects and

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outline a sensible strategy for delivering rural infrastructure in the future. Thank you. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, and if members can limit the remarks to around five minutes and then we should be able to get

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then we should be able to get anybody, everybody in Leigh Ingham. Thank you, speaker. And I thank the hon. Member for

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And I thank the hon. Member for North Shropshire for bringing forward this important debate. Mobile connectivity remains a real Mobile connectivity remains a real concern for many in rural communities, especially in my constituency of Stafford,
15:22
Leigh Ingham Portrait Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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Eccleshall and the villages. It affects how people run their businesses, how they keep in touch with family and how they keep safe. with family and how they keep safe. As my hon. Friend referred to, particularly on isolated roads and particularly on isolated roads and farms. But I do want to begin by acknowledging acknowledging the great progress that has already been made in this area. My experience of the Shared Rural Network and its extended coverage Network and its extended coverage to around 280,000 homes and businesses after 500 million of investment has been positive, particularly that investment.

Recognising the in the importance of that investment has made such a difference to Staffordshire. My constituency is about 40% rural, but 60% of people living in towns, and there's such a marked difference of their experience of connectivity. But the gap is still quite stark. So nearly half of rural deprived areas are not classed as 5G EP 5G hotspots, compared with just 2.7% of urban deprived communities. And in rural areas, only 20% of mobile mass have 5G deployed compared, compared with 48% in urban areas.

So those figures show that while coverage may look strong on national averages, rural communities are feeling that gap and feeling left behind. The issue is raised with me and my team regularly, so residents in mayor in Whitmore in Acton Village have all contacted me about unreliable mobile access and that leads to dropped calls, week in dogs signal and stretches of road with no coverage at all. And that's just part of their daily lives.

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Living in rural areas. Give way on that. Point, of course.

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I thank the Member for giving way and for the excellent speech that she's making. Similarly, in my constituency, also with a number of constituency, also with a number of villages such as Edingale and Clifton Campville Harlaston, I surveyed them to ask how bad this surveyed them to ask how bad this was, and I had results that 49% said their mobile connectivity was so bad that they weren't able to so bad that they weren't able to work from home or even run their business.

So does she agree that this really has to be a priority,

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so that our villages are not left behind? I thank my hon. Friend for intervening as a fellow Staffordshire MP. I think probably Staffordshire MP. I think probably broadly the issues we're experiencing are very similar. But it echoes exactly what I hear in my constituency particularly the point, actually about working from home. Many people have said that to me, and for farming businesses and for farming businesses particularly, which I've got many in my constituency, the impact is even more clear. So the Nfu's most even more clear.

So the Nfu's most recent survey found that only 22% of respondents report reliable mobile signal across their entire farm. Nearly 1 in 10 have no 4G or 5G access at all. And at the same time, 98% say mobile signal is really important for their business. So here in this house, we're regularly asking farmers to access schemes online, communicate digitally with our agencies and adopt new technology. Yet many are operating with poor or patchy connectivity, and the gap between need versus access is stark.

So in the village of Church Eaton, residents had endured years of mobile, really poor mobile coverage, at times unable to make 999 calls or receive NHS alerts, despite a mast having already been built under the Shared Rural Network. The infrastructure was actually there, but it had never been switched on, which left the village in limbo. But also residents, let's be honest, really, really annoyed. But working closely with the determined residents. And I paid tribute to them and the parish council who campaigned on this for many years.

I raised the issue in here and directly. VodafoneThree leadership got in contact to help get that site back into the company's investment plan, and I'm really pleased that following that joint effort and constructive engagement, the Mast has been running since September, bringing reliable 4G coverage into the village for the first time. But it shouldn't really take an MP standing up here for that to happen, that the infrastructure was already there. It wasn't waiting for. But what it has meant is stronger coverage for not only the VodafoneThree customers in the village, but also a wide variety of other signal providers.

But what I want to do is place on record. My thanks again to the parish councils across my constituency who've worked on this issue for years. They regularly gather evidence, they engage with providers, and they keep the issue alive. And I do believe that their persistence is invaluable in making progress in this space, because there's more and more public services move online access to stable mobile and broadband connectivity becomes even more important. Rural communities should not be left waiting. While national averages improve on paper.

So we need faster delivery of the Shared Rural Network to eliminate the total, not spots, alongside support for a mix of technologies to reach hard to access areas. But most importantly, rural communities must have confidence that they're not an afterthought in any roll out plans. People living in villages, on farms and down country lanes deserve the same reliable connectivity as anyone else, and I think closing that gap is essential for fairness, productivity, but also increasing opportunity. In rural Britain. We have some wonderful businesses, some wonderful local farms that really want to develop, and this can really hold them back.

So I'd love to hear what steps the Minister is taking to advance this and involve rural communities in in this moving forward.
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15:28
John Lamont Portrait John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)
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access is a necessity to, many rural communities remain cut off not only by geography but by inadequate infrastructure and poor decisions by mobile phone providers. decisions by mobile phone providers. I often speak in this place of levelling up and ensuring no part of our country is left behind. Yet of our country is left behind. Yet for many of my constituents in the Scottish Borders making a reliable Scottish Borders making a reliable phone call, sending a text or accessing mobile data is still a daily challenge in some areas.

Residents must stand in a particular spot or drive up to the top of a hill just to get signal. This is simply not acceptable in 2026. Connectivity is about far more than convenience. It's about safety, economic resilience, and tackling rural isolation. Farmers operating machinery. Elderly residents living alone. Small businesses processing payments and families keeping in touch all depend on reliable phone networks. When that signal fails, the consequences can be serious. Rural communities already face longer journeys to hospitals and fewer local services.

Unreliable mobile coverage only deepens the divide between rural and urban Britain. Now one point, Madam Deputy Speaker, which has not yet been touched on, is smart metre connectivity, because that's a particular concern in many of my communities. Households have been encouraged to adopt smart metres to improve efficiency and accuracy. Yet in many rural areas, poor mobile coverage means that those metres cannot function properly. Constituents are left with devices that cannot transmit readings automatically, undermining confidence in both the technology and the wider energy transition in rural households.

If rural households are asked to modernise, the supporting infrastructure must be fit for purpose. I am also deeply concerned by the decision by many mobile phone providers to switch off its 2G and 3G network signals. Whilst modernisation is undoubtedly necessary in many rural areas, these networks remain only reliable option, turning them off before a robust 4G or 5G alternative has been fully in place risks leaving residents with worse service than what they had before. This decision affects not only phones, but telecare devices, alarm systems, payment terminals and agricultural equipment.

Vulnerable individuals relying on telecare linked to legacy networks could face serious risks if signals are withdrawn prematurely. Now, I know from my own experience just driving around my constituency in the Scottish Borders and I've spoken to my neighbour, the hon. Member, right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale. We are finding it increasingly difficult to do our work as MPs as we travel around our constituencies, because in the past we had relatively good mobile phone signal, but because of the decision of the network providers to drop the service, the ability to use your phone is lost and you raise it with the phone providers.

They say it's all fine. This is a point that the hon. Member for North Shropshire made in respect of the Ofcom data. They, I believe, look at the phone. They say the signal and for them that is sufficient. But to make a phone call or to access your emails or to do any basic functions on your phone, the signal is just simply not sufficient. Similarly, when I do my weekly commute from Berwick upon Tweed station down to King's Cross along the East Coast Main Line, in the past, I used to have a very good signal for the duration of the journey.

Now I only get usable signal, which I think is the key point. Usable signal, not the signal which appears in your phone, which seems to satisfy Ofcom. I can only get usable signal when I'm in central Newcastle station in the centre of York station, or as I approach London everywhere else in between. Unless I can get Lner WiFi, I cannot use my phone effectively. So to concludes, telecom companies have commercial interests, but they also have responsibilities to our constituents. So I urge the government to engage closely with providers to ensure that no community is left without reliable service as networks evolve.

The Shared Rural Network is welcome, but delivery must be accelerated in the Scottish Borders, across Scotland and in all parts of rural Britain. Rural Britain does not seek special treatment, only fair treatment. Reliable connectivity is essential to economic growth, public services and community life. If we are to build a truly connected United Kingdom, rural connectivity must be a priority,

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not an afterthought. Thank you. Jayne Kirkham. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Mobile coverage in my constituency is not good at the best of times, although we are frequently told by although we are frequently told by the big four network providers that they have 99% 4G coverage in the UK, including in my own constituency. including in my own constituency. This doesn't ring true to anyone who, like me, is from Cornwall and therefore knows what it's like to therefore knows what it's like to struggle to get signal signal regularly here.

Here, where there's 5G coverage, it's often from a single provider, and not one premises has 5G coverage from all four providers. Last year, which an open signal produced a mobile network quality map for the year, using real world data from people's actual phones, and then assigned each postcode a score in tier four, which covers places like Chacewater in my constituency. It ranked the second worst for network quality,
15:34
Jayne Kirkham Portrait Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )
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with a consistent four or 5G signal just 57% of the time. That is sadly just 57% of the time. That is sadly not at all surprising. As a rural part of the world, we've often struggled with connectivity. This struggled with connectivity. This impacts rural businesses in particular, as the Member for Stafford pointed out, including Stafford pointed out, including farms who still experience poor mobile and broadband service. The NFU showed just 33% of farming businesses have access to fibre, while only 22% report reliable mobile signal across their farm.

This is despite the fact that now access to support schemes like sustainable farming incentives and communication with the Rural Payments Agency is increasingly online. So digital is even more important to farmers than ever before. Mobile coverage in my constituency failed spectacularly last month when Storm Goretti struck Cornwall, triggering a rare Met Office red warning with gusts of about 100 miles an hour. The storm caused widespread power outages and brought down over 1000 trees, leaving many people completely cut off. With no internet and poor mobile phone signal.

The new digital landlines that replace the old copper networks did not work without power, and Ofcom's rules require only one hour of battery backup for vulnerable customers, which is completely inadequate. This meant that for days and in some cases weeks, large parts of Cornwall were disconnected from the outside world, with no means of accessing information or getting assistance. For many, this was very frightening and showed how in some circumstances, mobile connectivity really could be life or death. The loss of telecommunications and poor signal made it harder for responders to identify and support vulnerable residents.

Unlike the National Grid, Openreach relied on people contacting their service provider to say they were offline, which wasn't sufficient in a contacts context where many residents had no internet or phone signal. And this wasn't helped by the fact that the providers generally display quite minimal customer service, and it was possible to get through to human beings in many cases. There was then another layer of delay while the provider reported to Openreach, who had no map of which areas were offline.

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Well my. Friend. Give way. I will. Just on that point, my hon. Friend is making a very powerful point. About the role of Openreach in this scenario, and one of the in this scenario, and one of the things that I've held for some time is that the role of Openreach is equivalent to the electricity equivalent to the electricity distribution network operator. Now, whilst we all pay our bills to an whilst we all pay our bills to an electricity company, it is the distribution network who is responsible for getting our power back on.

But in Openreach's case they they delegate that to the individual service providers. And I do think Openreach need to do more in this regard to look after the

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customers who are affected in these instances. Yeah. I do agree with the hon. Member,

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I do agree with the hon. Member, and it is the case that the Civil Contingencies Framework, although open, well, although mobile providers are a category two respondent, they don't have the duties, responsibilities and powers that say National Grid or WOR to do so. There is an argument there for changing that, a really strong argument. Furthermore, the storm exposed the fact that most mobile masts don't have backup generators or meaningful battery reserves, making them highly vulnerable to power loss. This contrasts with those expectations placed on water and electricity companies, which operate under established resilience duties.

Telecoms providers are arguably just as essential, and the civil contingencies framework should start to reflect that reality in practice, not just in statute. We need stronger requirements and powers for comms providers in emergency situations, and Ofcom need the teeth to enforce them. Storm Goretti demonstrated how dependent communities and responders now are on digital and mobile networks, and it showed the weakness and lack of resilience of those networks in rural places like Cornwall. Private eye pointed out an Ofcom and Ofcom technical report from last year noted that two thirds of the population, roughly, would be able to make emergency calls in the case of a power outage of under an hour by the six hour mark.

That number was redacted and described as being far fewer. As extreme weather becomes more frequent, it's absolutely crucial that rural areas are better connected. The deadline for nationwide 5G coverage has been pushed back to 2032, but communities like mine cannot wait. As these severe weather experiences become more and more. The Minister has indicated that places like Cornwall could be pilot areas for emergency resilience measures, and I very much look forward to that work beginning as soon as possible.

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EE Charlotte Cane. Speaker, I'd like to congratulate my hon. Friend, the congratulate my hon. Friend, the Member for North Shropshire, for securing this important debate, and I echo much of what she said in her I echo much of what she said in her speech. Indeed, much of what everybody said in their speech. Our two constituencies share many two constituencies share many similarities of being of comparable size and population, containing much farmland, but also a scattering of medium sized settlements.

In my case, this includes the city of Ely, home to over 20,000 residents. According to Ofcom's coverage maps, the entire city is covered by all mobile network operators, with at least good outdoor coverage. Given such confidence, I would like to invite Ofcom to Ely, where I will challenge them to catch even a single bar of mobile signal from
15:40
Charlotte Cane Portrait Charlotte Cane MP (Ely and East Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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the city centre. They will be sorely disappointed. Of course, the government could listen to independent data from a number of different sources, which reports remarkably poor mobile service in remarkably poor mobile service in areas of my constituency that Ofcom claims are covered. Alternatively, they could simply listen to local people in Ely. They'd hear from local business owners who can't get the signal for their card machines in the market square, or residents such as my constituent Alan, who has gone through four unsuccessful attempts to install a smart energy metre in his home because of inefficient mobile signal.

And of course, not only is that irritating, but it means he can't get the cheapest options on his fuel because they're all for people who have working smart metres or the new city centre restaurant business who can't take orders because they can't get internet or mobile signal in the middle of the city centre. Rather fittingly, in a debate about mobile connectivity, the major failure in the government's approach thus far appears to be one of a total lack of communication and connection with the lived experiences of citizens on the ground.

The government claims that it has reached 96% mobile coverage across the country. I'm sorry, but thousands of my constituents in Ely and East Cambridgeshire and I'm willing to bet in almost every other rural constituency would beg to differ, given the way the government is assessing coverage. Serious doubts are raised over the sincerity of its connectivity goals overall, including the rollout of the Shared Rural Network, although this is due to be completed by this time next year. The government seems to have minimal capacity to actually direct investment and new infrastructure to reach its goals, relying instead, as we've heard on the mobile network operators who put commercial interests above the

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interests of our constituents. I will. I'm really grateful. And one of those commercial operators is, of those commercial operators is, of course, O2. I have a constituent, course, O2. I have a constituent, Martin Ferdinando, who contacted O2 over 40 times. He was offered a handset, a new 5G sim, an handset, a new 5G sim, an escalation to the Ombudsman, and in the end, a £125 goodwill payment. the end, a £125 goodwill payment. Would she agree with me that our constituents don't want all of these goodwill payments? What they actually want is a functioning mobile system that would be developed if we had a proper Shared Rural Network.



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I thank the hon. Member for his intervention and I entirely agree. They don't want compensation. They don't want apologies. They want a mobile signal that they can rely on. And how can they have confidence that their digital connectivity will improve if Ofcom doesn't will improve if Ofcom doesn't engage with a reliable reporting system to direct investment in system to direct investment in response to on the ground needs? I have to say, on the other side, there's a bit of my constituency that allegedly has no connectivity and every time I've gone there I've had no problem getting a mobile signal.

So I rather ironically, there are some places where it's better than they think. In an era where public services are moving increasingly online, rural and digitally excluded populations risk becoming increasingly isolated. Good mobile connectivity must be considered a basic necessity and not an object for compromise. It's especially essential for accessing emergency service defibrillators and on call healthcare, a major concern for the many farmers in my constituency who experience lower than average health outcomes and work in more accident prone environments, and yet have very limited connectivity.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think the government would agree with me that we should move towards greater access to healthcare in the community, foster social connection and ensure safely policed neighbourhoods. But key to each is guaranteeing the rights of all, including those in rural areas, to swift and ready access to mobile signals. More than this, it also means a reliable process of reporting and mapping real terms, coverage and capacity of mobile networks, fundamentally, improving rural mobile connectivity must start with genuine two way communication.

Will the Minister now agree to overhaul Ofcom's coverage maps so that it is tied to real time data, and revise the coverage goals of the Shared Rural Network accordingly, so that my constituents and the many others we've heard about can finally get the assurance that reliable connection is on its way and on its way soon.

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Yes. Julie Minns. Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I thank the hon. Member for North Shropshire for bringing this North Shropshire for bringing this delayed very important debate. My constituency of Carlisle includes the very rural area of North the very rural area of North Cumbria, bordering Scotland and Northumberland. It is beautiful, remote and imparts, devoid of remote and imparts, devoid of mobile coverage. The lack of mobile connectivity is a particular issue in winter months, as we've already heard, when snow and wind not only blocks roads but brings down power lines.

And as has been said, the shutdown of the public service telephone network means that a loss of power to landlines, coupled with a paucity of mobile coverage, now leaves many of my constituents not only without telephony, but without any means of letting their electricity network or distribution network know that they have no
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Julie Minns Portrait Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)
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power at all. It is a year since Ofcom published the findings of its Ofcom published the findings of its consultation on mobile ran Power Resilience, and I will forgive members if they have not read it as members if they have not read it as I have now. Currently, the regulator suggests a minimum backup regulator suggests a minimum backup generator backup duration of just four hours for mobile Ran sites. That's a mast and a minimum duration of, as we've heard, one hour for battery backup units for fixed line phones.

However, last year, a power cut that affected the village of Kershope Foot, which sits on the border of my constituency and that of the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, lasted for five days. Now, I think a sensible and proportionate solution to this problem would be for Ofcom to require mobile networks to maintain a small fleet of electricity generators that could be used to power masts until the electricity grid can be repaired. And I would welcome the Minister's thoughts on this point, and an assurance that he will press Ofcom to go further on the issue of Ran resilience.

I'd now like to turn to the factors that determine the ability of mobile network operators to improve and maintain coverage. The first is network investment. The second is planning policy and the third is spectrum availability. Now the first is principally a matter for shareholders. However, the government clearly has a role in creating the right conditions for investment, safeguarding competition and removing the policy barriers that exist to network expansion. Which brings me to the second factor planning policy. And I would strongly urge the Minister to engage constructively with mobile UK on reform of both permitted development rights and the notice to quit regime, which can see mobile operators forced from sites before a new site can be built.

And that just leaves me with the third factor spectrum, a subject I take an unusual interest in. Having witnessed first hand the contrasting approaches and consequences of that of the Blair and Cameron governments, the UK's 3G spectrum auction in 2000 was designed not only to inject competition into the mobile market by reserving a licence for a new entrant, but to create a level playing field by preventing the incumbent networks from using their existing spectrum for 3G services. The effect was to create a level playing field and a competitive market for 3G services.

The result being that the UK became the first country in the world to deploy a commercial 3G network. Prices fell. Innovation grew and new services were spawned. Now, as take up grew, more spectrum had to become available for 3G and 4G services. However, simply allowing the four networks who had legacy spectrum to reuse it for 3G services would not only give them a competitive advantage over the newer entrant, it would also distort competition between the incumbent networks, who held different spectrum frequencies, and different frequencies mean different capabilities.

In particular, lower frequency spectrum is essential to getting coverage in rural areas. The then Labour government's solution was to direct the regulator to take back the legacy spectrum and reallocate it so as to maintain a level playing field and maximise competition. Unfortunately, the 2010 election intervened before the legislation to direct Ofcom could pass, and in January 2011, the Cameron government allowed the incumbent networks to use their 2G spectrum, creating, in the words of the new entrant, a competitive distortion, one that has, I would argue, driven the consolidation we have seen in the market over the last decade weakened competition.

Competitive pressure on the networks to expand their coverage, particularly in rural areas, and left the taxpayer to pick up the tab for a market failure that was entirely avoidable. I would therefore, in conclusion, urge the Minister, in matters of spectrum, to be more Blair and less Cameron and ensure that this government has a spectrum policy that supports competitive mobile, the competitive mobile market that benefits every corner and field of our country.

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Yeah. Mims Davies. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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And may I thank you and, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to contribute in this important debate, which affects so many of my which affects so many of my constituents. And I also thank the Member for North Shropshire for the opening of the debate and opening of the debate and resecuring this backbench business Committee debate, which matters so Committee debate, which matters so much to us all. May I echo many of the sentiments from the hon. Member for my friend from Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk.

I felt like he was reading my speech, but the bit that I thought was particularly interesting was that my constituency is between 30 and 60 miles away from Westminster, which sums up, I think, some of the challenges that we all feel in this area. Of course, my area, East Grinstead and Uckfield in the villages has many very rural areas, parts of Haywards Heath and parts of Burgess Hill as well. And mobile connectivity is a major issue that people write to me about and raised with me in person, in and around the constituency, and it gives me very sad moment to tell you that since my boundary changes, I have
15:51
Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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had to leave one of my longest relationships I've ever had, very sadly before Valentine's Day. And that was with Vodafone because it was failing. Yes, I walked out because I'm afraid connectivity, particularly where there has been particularly where there has been new housing, has been absolutely dire. I've said to my family, friends and colleagues, don't friends and colleagues, don't bother to call. You won't get through. And so not. I'm a bit embarrassed to say he knows who he is.

I recently semi kidnapped one of VodafoneThree Parliamentary affairs gentlemen to drive them around my constituency to showcase where the usage, the signal usage versus what they've got on the maps and what they sell. People in the shops simply does not match. Now, throughout 2025, Madam Deputy Speaker, I met with mobile providers, ran a constituent survey, and I'm very grateful for all who contributed. Around 90% said that when they completed the survey, they had a complete lack of service and some people saying 132 in in numbers said they rarely and never have a signal.

Most affected in my constituency chronic knock spots of hosted Keynes, Fairwarp Mayfield and the wider Ashdown Forest and Wivelsfield and Isfield. People in this area said I never have a signal. My visitors are surprised there is no decent signal in 2025. We never get one. It's a constant complaint both to them and then they pass it on to their providers. Now, I do represent a rural Sussex constituency, but there are more urban areas they report problems to in East Grinstead. My constituents say in the town centre it is almost unusable.

And the outskirts miles away, down in the village of Ashurst Wood, almost dead zone since the hon. Lady for Stafford, not in her place right now, said going online is near impossible, and it has been my parish councils who've been doing much of the heavy lifting in terms of representing across the constituency, dropped out calls, people cut off power cuts, people unable to do online banking purchases, failing because verification codes sometimes take days or don't come at all.

People who are self-employed, remote workers or indeed people who are trying to run small or micro businesses. These are vital challenges for a large number of my businesses. 77 local businesses said they have severe disruption. This is regularly. Madam Deputy Speaker, if we want growth and to support jobs and get the economy going, this is clear infrastructure. It's an economic issue and it is also a public safety issue. In that event of a power cut, people can't rely on Wi-Fi calling.

It's serious. It endangers life. And I absolutely agree on the smart metre failings. And just before I conclude one most recent grievous issue I had is a recent office move with BT Openreach. It took me one month to finally get connection from those guys. That's a month with my constituency office with no broadband, so I would love the Minister to meet with me and many of us, because we're universally connected in the fact that we have no connectivity. And I think this needs to be seen as an essential service, just like water.

But don't get me started on that.

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Thank you. Perran Moon mirrors. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to also thank the Member for North Shropshire for securing this debate Shropshire for securing this debate for the second time in rural areas like my constituency in Camborne like my constituency in Camborne and Redruth and Hale, the challenges of infrastructure and connectivity differ substantially connectivity differ substantially from those in urban settings, and decision makers too often hold outdated assumptions or misunderstandings about the differences between rural and remote coastal areas like Cornwall.

Policy reform is urgently needed and if you can fix it in Cornwall,
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Perran Moon Portrait Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Labour)
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you can fix it anywhere. So substandard critical infrastructure that normally attracts little that normally attracts little attention from policy makers only becomes visible to them when it becomes visible to them when it fails. And as the hon. Member, my hon. Friend from Truro and Falmouth has already said, that's precisely has already said, that's precisely what happened on the evening of the 8th of January, residents across Cornwall received red weather warnings as winds up to 111 miles an hour blasted roofs from buildings, bringing down telephone lines and ripping huge trees from the ground.

Around 200 telegraph poles were brought down. Hundreds of metres of cabling were destroyed by fallen trees, and entire areas became completely inaccessible. At the peak of the storm, more than 120,000 homes lost power. The engineers and the workers on the ground have been exceptional, and I want to commend their commitment and professionalism. But the reality is that too many of my constituents still lack basic mobile connectivity. And as again, members from Carlisle and Truro and Falmouth have have commented, there is the requirement for backup power for masts.

The failings of of both Ofcom and Openreach. But I was pleased to meet Minister Lloyd yesterday, along with Cornish colleagues, to raise these issues directly. Alongside the immediate disruption, we also face the ongoing problem of a system of the system reverting to business as usual after the crisis, according to Cellnex. Based on data from Ofcom, all six Cornish constituencies appear at the bottom of UK mobile connectivity list. The mobile market review, running until the 21st of April, is a crucial opportunity to change that.

We fundamentally need a higher standard of service, service quality and robust and transparent measurement so that improvements in mobile connectivity actually

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translate into the benefits for customers. I will give one. I'm grateful to him, and he's

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I'm grateful to him, and he's talking about the frustrations in Cornwall that my constituents really can relate to. It's peninsula wide across Devon and Cornwall, only 52% of Mid and East Cornwall, only 52% of Mid and East Devon is covered by 5G, and that's compared with 62% nationally. Would he recognise that this is about our

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he recognise that this is about our remote south west peninsula? Yes, I would, but I'd also say to him that it's, it's it's there are other parts of, of the United Kingdom, not just in south west England and Cornwall, but also in, in in areas further north as, as we've heard about. And it really is for me an opportunity to focus on those areas so that they're not left behind in the digital transition. And this is why it's so important.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the government is investing tens of millions of pounds in critical minerals and renewables in order to unleash the Cornish Celtic Tiger, but that investment is designed to unlock private investment into those growth sectors. But investment will be directly hamstrung by the paucity of mobile communications. And it's fair to say that in Cornwall, as well as other places, we are frankly fed up with being left behind in the digital transition. So when he gets to his feet, would the Minister please commit to taking this moment to work across government to transform Cornwall's mobile communications weaknesses into a strength so that businesses can grow and no one is left in the dark with no way of communicating with the outside world ever again.



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Yeah it is attempted. And can I thank and congratulate the member from North Shropshire the member from North Shropshire for securing this debate over the past 20 months or so since coming into this House, I think that rural connectivity has been the most constant issue in my inbox. And not constant issue in my inbox. And not surprising really, when you consider my constituency is 69% rural and still suffers from a rural and still suffers from a large number of not spots.

A report issued by Vodafone in November 23rd found that nearly half of rural deprived areas as classed as 5G, not spots, whereas the same can only be said of 2.7% of urban deprived areas and Ofcom's Connected Nationals report, published in November 25th, provided further evidence of rural areas lagging behind urban areas in both 5G and 4G access. Both these reports show how rural connectivity
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Ann Davies Portrait Ann Davies MP (Caerfyrddin, Plaid Cymru)
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shall, short of what urban areas receive, and over the past few years, the Shared Rural Network, years, the Shared Rural Network, which is funded through private investment and public money, has worked reasonably well in Caerfyrddin, with an additional number of masts being built in hard to reach areas. However, like my to reach areas. However, like my hon. Friend from Stafford mentioned, we have a situation where in my constituency two mobile masts have constituency two mobile masts have been built, both on shared rural network scheme.

Neither has been switched on. The mast has no power but is ready to go. But Vodafone has yet to turn on the network. In Llanelli, the mast has been built again over a year ago, but there is still no power connected to it. This was due to be connected in January. I The Wrekin, but on the on the timescale that has been built on, we could be waiting another year before connectivity is switched on and this really is not good enough.

Public purse funding has been poured into both mast projects and nothing nothing to show for it. At a time when digital connectivity is seriously needed, broadband access in rural parts of my constituency constituency is also not good enough. Rural businesses, including farms, now rely on on connectivity for all transaction for banking tax and returns for bcms, for CTS reports, etc. and of course payments in our rural village shops. But the results from the National Farmers Union Rural Digital Survey is worrying.

And as has been mentioned, 20% 21% of respondents have broadband speeds less than ten megabits, compared to the national average of less than 1% and 22. Report reliable mobile signal across their entire farms. You know, this is just not good enough. So rural homes and businesses need to be able to have contact to emergency services as and when needed. And we found that during Storm Dara, which was far worse for us than any of the recent storms that have come, the digital digitalisation of our telecommunication systems meant that the networks failed.

And although batteries do help businesses, according to one of my constituents just last week and not eligible for these, and only domestic dwellings can have battery backups. So people were left with no means of communication, unable to reach emergency services. And this is unacceptable. We must ensure that when public money is spent on upgrading networks, they must be switched on. They must work for the communities in which they are built. And my final point, madam, is that include some of the hardest to reach homes, as we have properties tucked deep into valleys or are set in extremely remote locations in these areas, it is much harder for traditional masts to provide reliable coverage no matter how many are built.

And that's why it's essential that a satellite solution is available and affordable for all the households that will otherwise be left behind. Starlink currently charges around £75 per month for network coverage, and this isn't affordable for many of my constituents. I hope that in the next year or so, competition will mean that this becomes cheaper and other companies can provide that service. But whatever systems communities use and constituencies, it must work. It must be reliable, it must be affordable, especially when public money has been used in good faith.

Bradley Thomas.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I congratulate the Member for North Shropshire on being persistent and Shropshire on being persistent and finally securing this very important debate. There are few phrases in modern Britain that I phrases in modern Britain that I think ring as hollow as the phrase world class connectivity and, speaking plainly, rural mobile phone connectivity in this country. It's not merely patchy Madam Deputy Speaker, it's not merely inconsistent. In some places, it's inconsistent. In some places, it's so poor that the advertised service literally bears no resemblance to reality.

And there are areas where actual service levels are hundred times hundreds of times worse than advertised. Hundreds. That is not a rounding error. That is not the result of momentary network congestion. That's the difference between promise and performance,
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Bradley Thomas Portrait Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)
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which is so vast that it would be comic if it wasn't so economically corrosive. So take Worcestershire corrosive. So take Worcestershire for example. It's a rural county. Lots of villages, small towns, industrial small businesses, farms, villages where the coverage map goes reassuringly in bright corporate colours. But the lived corporate colours. But the lived reality is far too often just a single bar. If you stand at the upstairs window facing north, upstairs window facing north, holding your phone aloft like some kind of digital divining rod, and we've heard already about the River Severn Partnership in Worcestershire was a beneficiary of this, where, quite innovatively, local councils stuck these gadgets on the bin lorries that went up and down every single road, particularly the rural roads, and realised probably what we all suspect, how terrible this service is.

There are parts of Worcestershire where the mobile phone signal is around 900 times worse than what the mobile phone operators claim it to be. Now we could forgive the odd dropped call. After all, rural topography represents challenges, presents challenges. Hills exist, trees are inconveniently organic. What cannot be forgiven, though, is the persistent gulf between what is claimed and what's delivered. And it's the same with broadband. We hear broadband providers advertised speeds of up to 80mbps, but the reality of what many of my constituents experience is very different.

They are. These advertised figures are very much the realm of fiction. And this is not just anecdotal grumbling from the shires. The National Farmers Union, their survey has painted a sobering picture. 21% of respondents report that broadband speeds under ten megabits per second. That's under 10 in 2026. And this is at a time when a single video could devour bandwidth instantly. What my constituents want is the ability to consume data and to be able to make voice calls. At the same time.

I cannot stress how sick and tired I am of hearing from mobile phone companies that everyone's just consuming data, that constituents living in rural areas in particular, are increasingly reliant. As the traditional telephone services switched off on the ability to make voice calls. Madam Deputy Speaker, and the lived reality of what this means. Well, it means that a business in rural Worcestershire that's attempting to submit might be mandatory forms online to a regulator or placing an order they have to drive to the nearest town to do so.

It means that businesses can't reliably place orders. They can't process card payments. Online banking as banks are closing in our towns and villages and people are shifting or being pushed towards more online digital services, it's crucial that we have the mobile connectivity to back this up. And if I can say so, there is a little bit of cultural condescension at work as well. Rural Britain is far too frequently romanticised as being just a place of bucolic tranquillity. It is that, but rural Britain demands parity with urban Britain at the same time.

What does that mean? It means we just want a reliable mobile phone signal where we can drive down the road without it cutting out on a very short journey, or the ability to have certainty that if you need to receive a call from a loved one or a relative, or perhaps a GP, that that call will come through. So what do we see? Coverage maps. They've been drawn with a particularly optimistic crayon. And the problem with advertised speeds being hundreds of times better than reality is not merely technical, because it does erode trust.

Quite often these conditions are laboratory conditions. They don't bear any semblance of reality. So I invite the mobile phone companies to come and do a very thorough inspection across Bromsgrove in the villages, and I'll be very happy to follow the example. I will give way.

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Hon. Friend, for giving way, and I concur with every word he is saying, particularly around saying, particularly around challenges around national parks as well, where connectivity could be more difficult. If I may just take more difficult. If I may just take him back to call backs from GPS where GPS are working remotely or differently and flexibly. This is a real problem for anyone, but real problem for anyone, but particularly if you miss that set call in a rural area.

And this is very serious.

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And I thank my right hon. Friend for her intervention. She's spot on. I have constituents who have I have constituents who have contacted me because they've missed out on crucial calls that have come out on crucial calls that have come from GPS and other other supporting services that they require, particularly older residents. So particularly older residents. So this is about the safety and wellbeing of our constituents as much as it is about connectivity much as it is about connectivity and the economy.

So in the limited time that I've got, Madam Deputy Speaker, just a few points I would implore the government to focus on. So firstly, transparency must improve. That means bolstering regulatory requirements for the mobile phone companies to advertise speeds that are realistic and not just theoretical based on laboratory conditions. Then the point around geographic coverage. This is not just population coverage, but geographic coverage that must carry greater regulatory weight. Britain is not composed solely of cities, land matters, and the people who steward it and rely on these mobile phone connections matter.

And that means that the government should give serious consideration to rural roaming. And then finally, infrastructure sharing should be pursued with seriousness to ensure that mobile phone coverage across the country, but particularly across Bromsgrove and the Villages, is as robust as it possibly can be.

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Aphra Brandreth. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the hon. Member for North Shropshire, who is also my constituency neighbour, for securing this important debate from securing this important debate from Will Stone to Tatenhill and from Acton to Audlem. Poor mobile connectivity is all too common connectivity is all too common across Chester South and Eddisbury, but the house need not take my word for it. Earlier this year I for it. Earlier this year I launched a mobile connectivity survey and I want to take this opportunity to thank the 544
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Aphra Brandreth Portrait Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)
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residents who took the time to complete it. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is vital to get the real experiences of people living and working in Chester South and Eddisbury because, as we've heard Eddisbury because, as we've heard from other members today, all too often, the level of coverage that Ofcom and the mobile network Ofcom and the mobile network operators claim exists does not reflect the reality. Ofcom gives statistics based on modelling not statistics based on modelling not on the ground evidence. It doesn't differentiate between 4G and 5G coverage and, crucially, they don't test network capacity.

In my mobile survey, I asked constituents on a scale of 1 to 10, where one is very poor and ten is excellent to rate different aspects of their mobile service. The average score for both the signal to make and receive calls, and the average reliability for calls was just three out of ten. The ability to stream or download larger files scored even lower, and many shared their experiences of poor levels of signal and data, making it impossible to even download messages or emails.

I also asked whether constituents could get a usable phone signal in the main areas of their home. Of the 544 respondents, almost 300 said they could not. Madam Deputy Speaker, it's worth pausing to reflect on that. Over half of my constituents surveyed cannot get a usable mobile phone signal in their own home. That is simply unacceptable. In 21st century Britain. The consequences of this are very real. We know that since the pandemic, more people are working from home, making reliable connectivity vital.

According to the office for National Statistics, nearly 10 million people in the UK are hybrid workers, with a further 5 million working exclusively from home. This is now a fundamental part of our modern economy. If the government is serious about economic growth, then addressing poor mobile connectivity, particularly in rural areas, must be part of that plan. But the impact is not only economic, it is social. Digital isolation compounds physical isolation. Not being able to rely on a mobile connection to contact friends, family or support services can have serious negative impacts on mental health.

There is also a safety dimension to this issue. Madam Deputy Speaker, as more services become digital by default, rural residents are increasingly disadvantaged, unable to reliably take calls from doctors, carers or other essential providers. Constituents have raised concerns about being unable to make calls in emergencies, particularly in more remote rural areas. That is not simply inconvenient, it is dangerous. Madam Deputy Speaker, what my constituents need is meaningful action. So can I urge the Minister to consider the views of people across Chester South and Eddisbury who completed my mobile survey and in the government's response, share what steps are currently being taken to work with providers, particularly in the rural context, to address the unacceptable gaps in coverage for work, for school, to make doctor's appointments, or to connect with friends.

We need reliable mobile connectivity, and I will continue to push the government so that every village, whether it be in Audlem, in Wimberry, in Wrenbury, in Malpas, in Tatenhill, Tilston, Farndon, Christleton and so many more get the connection they rightly expect and deserve.

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Deputy. Speaker, and may I congratulate my hon. Friend, the Member for North Shropshire, on securing this really important debate. One of the things that is most often in my constituency mailbag is digital constituency mailbag is digital connectivity, as it affects thousands of my constituents. Something that has become essential Something that has become essential to modern life as electricity or roads. The issue is absolutely fundamental to the future viability of rural communities, not just in my constituency of Lewes, but across the whole country.

I want to start by sharing some examples from constituents who have been in touch with me recently. Real people facing real problems in their daily lives. There is a woman, for instance, living in Allenwood Park, a park home site in my constituency who can only use her mobile phone when she's out and about. Let me be clear what that means in her own home, the place where she should feel most comfortable, secure and connected, her phone is essentially useless to her. Then there is a couple living in the village of Berwick.

One is on Tesco Mobile and the other is with Vodafone. Neither of them can receive calls when
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James MacCleary Portrait James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
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they're at home. This is not merely an inconvenience mandate to speaker. It is hugely impactful on their work. He has had to completely work. He has had to completely change how he communicates with clients, relying entirely on email and WhatsApp because he simply and WhatsApp because he simply cannot depend on phone calls. And here is what truly concerns me. Her father is in a care home, and he father is in a care home, and he does not always get through when he calls. Hon.

Members can imagine the stress this causes when an elderly stress this causes when an elderly man trying to reach his daughter and the technology simply failing him, failing both of them. Their phones work perfectly well when they leave Berwick. It is purely a problem of coverage in the village itself. I recently heard from a couple who have moved to my constituency from rural Staffordshire. They were shocked, genuinely shocked to discover they have no signal whatsoever in their new home in East Dean. They have moved from one rural area to another, and somehow our connectivity is even worse than what they had left behind.

And one of my recent advice surgeries. I spoke with a farmer from the same village who was dealing with the same problem, and this is where it becomes really serious. What happens if someone on his farm needs to call the emergency services? What if there is an accident, a medical emergency, or a fire? Every second counts in those situations. And it's not just emergencies. Try doing online banking. Try running a business. Try doing any of the things we're all expected to do online these days.

And those of us in towns and cities can take largely for granted. A gentleman in the village of Upper Dicker, who has two recently, who has to regularly drive to his son's house just to use his phone because his signal at home is so poor. Every time a website needs to text him a verification code, something that happens more and more these days, he is stuck. He cannot access his bank account. He cannot log into government services. He cannot do any of the things we're increasingly required to do online.

According to research published last year, the UK has the worst average 5G download speeds of all G7 countries. We're not slightly behind Madam Deputy Speaker. We are dead last. And when one looks at rural coverage specifically, the picture is even more concerning. Only 69% of rural areas in the UK receive 4G coverage, or at least alleged to receive 4G coverage from the four major mobile network providers, not 5G 4G technology that is already years old, and we're at just 69%.

So much of what we are told is 3G, 4G, or 5G is actually also mislabelled. The signal bars on your phone can be deeply misleading. You might see full bars and assume everything is fine, but try to make a call or load a web page and suddenly you realise those bars do not mean what you thought they meant. In rural areas, poor connectivity is fundamentally undermining the viability of our communities. It's not just annoying, it is existential. Young families cannot move to rural areas or stay there because they can't work from home.

Businesses can't operate effectively. Elderly residents can't stay in touch with family or access online health services. Farmers can't use modern agricultural technology. Students can't do their homework. The digital divide is no longer just about cities versus countryside. It is about whether rural communities can survive and thrive in the 21st century. The inequality of provision as the 5G network is rolled out is deeply concerning. It is simply wrong that people should be disadvantaged because of where they live. Your postcode should not determine whether you can fully participate in a modern society.

We must ensure that improving broadband and mobile connectivity starts with the hardest to reach areas first, not as an afterthought, not eventually first. I have recently met with Vodafone, who are responsible for the rollout in our part of Sussex, to press this point. The government must prioritise major investment in broadband as well for underserved communities because here is the economic argument. Investment in these areas will help unlock vast potential of our rural communities. Research has demonstrated that ubiquitous 5G could add £159 billion to the UK economy by 2035.

That is not just money for telecoms companies, that is businesses in our rural communities operating more effectively. I am asking on behalf of my constituents for the government to live up to its promises to invest properly in rural connectivity, to ensure that companies like Openreach and Vodafone communicate clearly with residents and meet their commitments. Because the woman I mentioned in Allenwood Park deserves to use her phone in her own home, the couple in Berwick deserve to do their jobs and stay in touch with their elderly parents without constant stress.

The farmer in East Dean deserves to know that if there's an emergency, he can call for help. The gentleman in Apodaca deserves to log into his bank account without driving across my constituency. My constituents deserve better and rural constituent rural constituencies across the country deserve better too. Madam Deputy Speaker.

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I come to the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, Anna Sabine. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I really thank my colleague, the Member for North Shropshire, the Member for North Shropshire, for bringing forward this debate about a subject that she knows so much about and is such a passionate campaigner on rural areas. Too campaigner on rural areas. Too often the last in the queue when it comes to decent mobile internet connectivity. I certainly receive many emails, although not as many as I probably would if there were better connected calls and letters from constituents who tell me how woeful, woeful mobile connectivity is in parts of Frome and East Somerset.

One elderly constituent told me how anxious she is that she or her husband will suffer a fall and have no way to contact emergency services, as their home has no mobile signal. The Liberal Democrats believe that mobile coverage is a basic utility, and it is essential these days as running water. People need mobile connectivity when they are travelling, working, running businesses or responding to emergencies. Yet for too long, government targets have not been ambitious enough and have been based on connecting households directly rather than on geographic coverage.

The government claims to have reached 95% of geographic broadband coverage, but residents
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Anna Sabine Portrait Anna Sabine MP (Frome and East Somerset, Liberal Democrat)
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in rural areas tell a very different story, and the problem lies in how coverage is measured. In the village of rode, a constituent wrote to me about constituent wrote to me about persistent signal blackspots throughout the village. He told me he no longer expects to receive any mobile signal by his home. Ofcom's mobile coverage checker suggests he should have strong outdoor signal from every provider, but his from every provider, but his experience proves otherwise. This is why we support a nationwide programme to install hyper fast fibre optic broadband across the UK, fibre optic broadband across the UK, with a particular focus on connecting rural areas.

Ofcom's capability to understand coverage relies on measurement based on 100 by 100 metre by 100 metre grids, which means that vast swathes of rural areas are under-served in areas like road. More accurate techniques based on smaller grids would offer better coverage pictures to allow for targeted support. Rural businesses are crying out for better connectivity. The survey by the Countryside Allowance found that 85% of rural businesses sited their connectivity as poor but manageable, with 80% saying better quality connectivity would be the single largest improvement to their business.

In the town of Midsomer Norton, a fairly sizeable market town in my constituency. Then Rebel Studios has long struggled with poor mobile signal and inadequate broadband. Mobile reception inside their premises is extremely limited and despite being only a few metres off the High street, they've been unable to secure an extension of the fibre network. As a result, only a handful of people using their café can currently use their WiFi at any one time before the system crashes. That's simply not sustainable for a modern business and this really matters for productivity.

Rural areas are 18% less productive than the national average. Closing this gap would be up to £43 billion in England alone, creating hundreds of thousands of jobs in areas too often blighted by underemployment. Some rural stakeholders have complained about a lack of transparency about where coverage improvements will be delivered. It's ultimately up to the mobile network operators to decide where to deploy coverage. The government and Ofcom don't have legal powers to force them to build masts in specific locations. But when the hon.

Member for Rhondda and Ogmore served as Minister for Data Protection and Telecoms, he convened a working group with MPs and mobile providers to explore how to accelerate mast installation and improve rural mobile coverage. Unfortunately, this hasn't yet been restarted under the current Minister and I hope he will consider reinstating it. But Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to conclude by raising something that hasn't come up yet today, but which I think is a consequence of rural connectivity failure that goes beyond economics or inconvenience. I have a constituent who, after leaving a long term coercively controlling relationship, experienced sustained cyber intrusion by his former partner over several days.

He reported it to the police and obtained a crime number, but his abuser retained sole control of the broadband account for the home in which he was living. Because the coercive controller was the named bill payer. My constituent couldn't take over the account. His former partner explicitly refused to release it even when requested during separation proceedings. And here's where the absence of mobile coverage becomes critical. And my constituents property. There is zero mobile signal. In fact, in the whole village, broadband was his only means of communication.

His abuser controlled whether he could make a telephone call, access support services or even work through locked devices connected to the network. He remained vulnerable to surveillance. A private security sweep costing £5,000 discovered his TV soundbar had been configured as a listening device. He had to live with his Wi-Fi turned off, only activating it when absolutely necessary, leaving him feeling desperately vulnerable and unable to call for help. During the moments when it was on, he contacted his broadband provider four times, and while staff were compassionate and escalated the situation, there was no safeguarding protocol available to them and no mechanism to transfer control.

His former partner continued controlling his internet access and which devices could connect. Currently, broadband is regulated as a consumer contract, not as a central infrastructure, whereas in energy supplier would have had to recognise domestic abuse and allow account transfers. Telecommunications providers face no such duty when reviewing rural connectivity policy. Will the Minister also consider requiring telecoms providers to have such safeguarding mechanisms? Will they ensure that where police evidence documents abuse, broadband control can be transferred to the person at risk? I'm sure if the Minister hears from similar frustrations from.

I'm sure the Minister hears similar frustrations from his own constituents, as we've heard today, and I hope he recognises how urgently these issues need addressing. If we're serious about protecting people, supporting rural communities and enabling economic growth, then we must treat digital

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access as the essential service it has become. Thank you.

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Shadow Minister Peter Fortune. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I congratulate the Member for and I congratulate the Member for North Shropshire for securing this debate and the Backbench Business Committee for granting it. I would also like to thank all members for their valuable contributions. The previous conservative government previous conservative government understood how important UK wide, mobile, UK wide mobile and broadband coverage is to the public and to our economy. That is why it put in place ambitious plans to ensure that people across the United Kingdom have access to this essential infrastructure, regardless of their location.

The shared Rural network, announced in 2020, secured significant investment of around £500 million from the largest mobile network operators under the SRN. Private investment is complemented by
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Peter Fortune Portrait Peter Fortune MP (Bromley and Biggin Hill, Conservative)
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government funding for the construction of mosques in the most underserved locations, with underserved locations, with additional coverage provided by the Emergency Services Network programme for 4G. The conservative programme for 4G. The conservative government set a target of 95% geographic coverage from at least geographic coverage from at least one mobile network operator by the end of 2025. By January 2025, 30 government funded mast upgrades went live, enhancing local connectivity without erecting new masts. And according to Ofcom, as of July 2025, 96% of the UK landmass had 4K coverage from at least 4G coverage from at least one operator exceeding the previous government's target.

I'm proud of the last conservative government's record of delivery under the SRN, and I welcome that the current government maintains the coverage commitments made under the scheme. However, despite the progress made up to this point, there are still some acute challenges. As we have heard from members today. If I go to my hon. Friend friend from Berkshire who talked about the reality of living in rural areas with poor coverage, which was echoed by the Member for Stafford and the impact it has, especially on farmers.

And I think it was an important point about the switch from 2G to 3G and not rushing that process. The Member for Ely and East Cambridgeshire, she will let us know if Ofcom take up her very generous offer to come and visit, and knowing how beautiful it is, they would be mad not to. My hon. Friend for East Grinstead and Uckfield. I was very sad to hear that she split up with Vodafone, with Vodafone, but it is sad. But with Valentine's Day just around the corner, perhaps there is the opportunity to reconnect and the it's my first time.

And it was also good to hear from the Member for from Kevin, who's having similar issues with Vodafone. Could I suggest she takes a leaf out of my friend's book and kidnaps one of their government relations people, and maybe gets her way that way. My friend from Chester South and Eddisbury, my was, as ever, on the front foot, serving her constituents with her mobile survey and highlighting the issue of digital isolation and the impact that can have on mental health. And my my friend, my hon.

Friend from Bromsgrove talked about the the impact on online online banking. With the closure of front counters. We need that connectivity in order to keep these services alive, as was echoed by the member from Lewes who talked about the impact on real people. I was sad to hear that for my hon. Friend to take a text message, he had to run upstairs and hang out of a window to get to get some reception. Now, I know that I will give.

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I thank him for giving way. For avoidance of doubt, I did not have to do that, but I know many people who do.

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who do. Thank you for that clarification. It saves me a bit of time as I was going to spend all weekend texting going to spend all weekend texting him. So we've heard real issues about how mobile phone connectivity is impacting people. Based on is impacting people. Based on commercial mapping of 113 local council areas across the UK. EE offers acceptable coverage in only 69% of the UK. Vodafone 61%, O2 50% and 3.38%. Now I know the previous Minister engaged with Ofcom on improving data collection standards to get a more accurate picture of 4G coverage.

This resulted in Ofcom launching its online coverage checker in June 2025, incorporating some improvements. The urgency of ensuring that everyone has reliable mobile phone coverage is becoming ever more pressing, as public services are increasingly digitised. The last government recognised the need to tackle non-commercial barriers to the rollout of digital infrastructure by amending planning legislation. However, as planning is a devolved matter, standards are not consistent across the four nations. So I would ask what discussions has the Minister had with his counterparts in the devolved administrations on this matter? On 5G rollout, the conservative government set a target of nationwide coverage of standalone 5G to all populated areas of the UK by 2030.

The development of this infrastructure has been market led, with commercial investment having achieved 5G coverage from at least one operator over approximately 65% of the UK landmass. In December, the government launched its call for evidence on reforming planning rules to accelerate deployment of digital infrastructure. The call for evidence is due to end on the 26th of February. Given the urgency of this matter, when does the Minister expect to be able to update the House on the outcome of the call for evidence and the government's proposals for planning reform? Touching briefly on broadband, I welcome the publication of the draft Strategic Statement of Strategic Priorities yesterday and know that businesses will appreciate the clarity that this has provided.

The continuation of the Conservatives commitment to competition is welcome, and it is important that as the telecoms market consolidates and the CMA watches over this process, that competition is actively upheld to reduce consumer costs and continue improving services. There is clearly cross-party agreement that we need to do more to ensure rural areas have improved connectivity, and I hope that the Minister will

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engage constructively with all members who have contributed to achieve this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I call the Minister. Kanishka Narayan Minister. Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I start by thanking the hon. Member for North Shropshire for securing this debate on mobile for securing this debate on mobile connectivity in rural areas and all hon. Members for their insightful contributions whilst I'm contributions whilst I'm representing my hon. Friend in the other place, the Minister for Digital Economy, I feel the pain described by many hon. Members personally to representing a rural constituency. And can I in that context particularly thank my hon. Friends for Stafford, the members for Stafford and Truro and Falmouth, as well as the hon.

Member for Berwickshire, and for their representations on behalf of farmers and agricultural communities who I know face a particular challenge, as well as the hon. Members for Bromsgrove, Chester South and Eddisbury as well as Lewes for talking about not just the maintenance of bucolic beauty, but parity and economic opportunity too, as well as the hon. Member, the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, who raised a very concerning case, in particular about coercive control through the use of connectivity as well. I would encourage her to write to the department, and I'd be keen on following up on that particular point.

And finally, also the my hon. Friend for Camborne and Redruth, who shares the feature of both rurality and remoteness and coastal communities, that I feel the calls are very personally too. I would also congratulate the hon. Member for North Shropshire because I know, along with the other members of the Digital Communities
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Kanishka Narayan Portrait Kanishka Narayan MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Vale of Glamorgan, Labour)
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All Party Parliamentary Group, I have valued their detailed report published in January, providing valuable insights and valuable insights and recommendations on this topic. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is well understood across the House that the access to high quality, the access to high quality, reliable and secure digital connectivity is essential to day to day life. With many services now requiring online presence. It is requiring online presence. It is not only important for consumers, for businesses in every sector of the UK economy, which increasingly the UK economy, which increasingly depend on fixed and mobile networks in some way, from taking card payments to managing businesses online, digital connectivity is central.

The focus of this debate is on mobile connectivity. The government has an ambition for all populated areas, including rural communities, to have access to high quality standalone 5G by 2030. Whilst standalone 5G is already available outside 83% of premises across the UK. I acknowledge that we need to go much further. Operators are starting to line investment and delivery plans, with the ambition that we have set out as a government as a result of their merger, VodafoneThree have committed to investing 11 billion in their 5G network over the ten year period following completion of the merger.

Progress against this will be monitored at regular intervals by Ofcom, BT and Virgin Media. O2 have set out similarly significant investment plans in their networks, both aligning with the government's standalone 5G

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coverage ambition to ensure. I am happy to give way. To the Minister. Does the

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To the Minister. Does the Minister acknowledge there are issues with the data that is being provided by both the telecom companies and Ofcom? Because I companies and Ofcom? Because I think we have all shared experiences in the chamber today where we are produced with maps from Vodafone or EE or whoever, which apparently have demonstrated good coverage within our respective constituencies. But on the ground constituencies. But on the ground that covers just isn't there. So is the Minister challenging the providers on their data?

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I thank the hon. Member for raising the point, and I will absolutely come to that question, because I recognise the gap between between the aggregate picture and the felt experience on the ground, very much. Returning to the very much. Returning to the question of aggregate investment, Madam Deputy Speaker, to ensure that investment delivers coverage improvements for communities right improvements for communities right across the UK, including in rural areas, we continue to work to identify and address barriers to deployment where it is practical to deployment where it is practical to do so.

In that context, can I firstly respond to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle, who brings a very significant depth of experience on this particular question. I share not her expertise and experience, but certainly her enthusiasm and the question of spectrum. As a as a undergraduate student, the global example of the last Labour government and auction design and the question of 3G spectrum was very much part of my curriculum. And in that spirit, I hope very much to take her advice and continue to continue the spirit of labour, not that of both the last conservative government and the Liberal Democrats who were complicit in in the auction challenges of that government.

The the the focus on investment includes implementing the remaining provisions of the product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act, 2022. And again, to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle, I confirmed that we are, as a government, considering where planning rules can be relaxed to support the deployment of mobile infrastructure. The shadow Minister mentioned the call for evidence due to closed on the 26th of February, and the usual spirit, I confirm to him a prompt statement in the House, but I'm afraid not a specific date on this occasion.

On the subject of the reporting of mobile coverage, members across the House are totally right to highlight issues with accuracy. In some cases, I feel the depth of that frustration very personally on this question too. And whilst I could not condone the hon. Member for East Grinstead semi kidnapping experience, she has my she has my particular sympathies for her Pre-valentine's break up with Vodafone. Accurate coverage data Madam Deputy Speaker is essential for consumers. It allows the the conduct of more informed decisions on which operators provide the best level of service for life, work and travel.

I'm very happy to give way.

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Thank you. Very kind and generous. Ofcom to VAWG UK is the way to report poor VAWG UK is the way to report poor signal in your area. Enter postcode, select a provider and then provide select a provider and then provide coverage and feedback. If you can get signal. And that is the irony get signal. And that is the irony of many of us driving around rural areas to try and give that feedback. Hence very kindly parliamentary affairs from Vodafone being actively kidnapped to drive around to find the experience versus the reality.

Just to put that firmly on

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the record with the Minister. I confirm to the hon. Member

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I confirm to the hon. Member there's no sense of judgement on this side as to the as to the conduct of her particular cause. conduct of her particular cause. Government, Madam Deputy Speaker, continues to work with Ofcom to improve the accuracy of reported improve the accuracy of reported mobile coverage. Building on the launch of their Map Your Mobile tool in June of last year, and I tool in June of last year, and I was glad to see hon. Members recognised that this is reflected in the draft statement of Strategic Priorities for telecoms, Spectrum and Post, which government laid in Parliament yesterday.

It will remain a firm priority for the government and I will make sure to represent the concerns raised today with the with my hon. Friend, the Minister for Digital Economy. More accurate coverage data also allows us to understand coverage gaps and addressing those gaps. These gaps requires investment by the mobile network operators. The government recognises that the investment climate has been difficult for the mobile sector in previous years. We are committed to working with industry to support their investment in our networks.

That is why we are undertaking a mobile market review to understand the factors impacting the sector's ability to invest and the recent digital communities, APPG report calls. I know for an independent review of the digital connectivity landscape, the mobile market review and the accompanying call for evidence launched on Tuesday will enable the government to consider what more we can do to support the sector to through the call for evidence, we're looking to gather views on the quality of mobile service and level of coverage required to harness the full benefits of standalone 5G, as well as where our ambitions on 5G standalone 5G should go.

Further still, as members will be aware as part of our work with industry. Yesterday, the Chancellor and the Secretary of State chaired a roundtable with CEOs of major UK telecoms firms to discuss investment challenges, as well as agreeing to the Telecoms Consumer Charter, which looks to strengthen transparency to empower consumers, as well as improve support for those struggling to pay. Moving to the provision of reliable 4G connectivity, I know it is essential to many at the spending review. In 2025, the government committed to continue delivering 4G coverage in areas with little or no coverage.

The Shared Rural Network has helped to deliver 4G mobile coverage to 96% of the UK landmass, from at least one operator and 81% from all for the publicly funded elements of the Shared Rural Network will continue to deliver improved coverage up to January 2027, with over 100 masks already delivered delivering new coverage across the UK where there is no mobile coverage, we are starting to see some positive developments in the Satellite Directory Device market and to the point made by the hon.

Member for Caerfyrddin. I would also share her enthusiasm and hope for cost reductions as we have greater competition in that market. The UK is taking a very pioneering step in enabling director device connectivity, moving ahead of European counterparts to unlock connectivity as well as growth across remote parts of the UK. These developments have the potential to increase the resilience of our services, provide a backup for crucial ones as well as should territorial territorial networks face disruption. Madam Deputy Speaker having coverage alone is clearly not important enough by itself, as members have raised.

Very clearly, there needs to be confidence that mobile networks will be available in the most difficult of times and that they're secure against threats. Whilst the Telecom Security Act introduced a world leading regime for the protection and the security of these contexts, I know there's more work to do. And in particular, I appreciate the points made right across the House. On the resilience of mobile services to power cuts. We welcome that. Ofcom are completing a detailed regulatory review on this question. I will be sure to make sure the points raised today in the House are represented as part of Ofcom's considerations.

In particular, my hon. Friend for Carlisle concerns around possible ways of ensuring duration of support as backstops, I will be sure to convey in that context, Madam Speaker, we will ensure that the guidance for public telecommunications providers reflect evolving technologies. Emerging threats reflect input from industry as well as expert advice from the National Cyber Security Centre. And before I finish, just to address specific points raised by members to the hon. Member for East Grinstead, I'd be very happy to make sure that the Minister for Digital Economy meets with her as part of her recurring surgeries to the.

To my hon. Friend from Camborne and Redruth, I know he's a strong cross-government champion for Cornwall on all questions, and I will continue to make sure that we play our part in supporting his strength of advocacy. To the hon. Member for Caerfyrddin, I would say that there are three Home Office masts in her patch, two of them already activated as part of the Shared Rural Network and so on. The particular concerns she raised on Home Office masts. I'd be very happy to to engage with her through correspondence, should she wish to raise that question to the hon.

Member for Berwickshire, who raised the point, as well as my hon. Friend for Carlisle on 2G, 3G switch off. Whilst the expectation is that operators will provide broadly equivalent levels of coverage after switching off 2G, I have heard the concerns that he has made and will make sure that both the Minister and as a consequence, the regulator are very focussed on the on the complete delivery of that aspiration. And finally, I am conscious that the hon. Member for Berwickshire also raised the question around smart metres as well as the hon.

Member for East Grinstead, the data communications company is obligated, under the conditions of its licence, to provide smart metre network coverage to at least 99.25% of premises across Great Britain. One solution where those who don't currently have smart metre wide area network coverage, which the DCC and government have decided to focus on, involves harnessing customers broadband connections to also carry out smart metering communications. And so we are looking at how we can use modified smart metre communications hubs, as well as additional devices to be able to plug the gap.

That is not to to say that we won't continue to focus on how we can ensure mobile connectivity plays its part in that context as well. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am I am sure you wish for me to come to a prompt conclusion. So can I. First foremost, just thank the hon. Member for North Shropshire all hon. Members for their contributions. I will continue with them to continue to champion mobile connectivity across our rural communities.
16:44
Helen Morgan Portrait Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Helen Morgan to wind up. Deputy Speaker. I just wanted to thank all honourable and right hon. Members who contributed to this debate. I'm very conscious that it's the final Thursday afternoon it's the final Thursday afternoon before a recess, and it's it just shows how important this is to our constituents that so many people have come along and made good points. And I will be very brief. Bearing that in mind, I have sort of done a lot of work in this over the last year because of the activities of the All-party group, and it's testament to the value of a backbench debate that I've learned quite a lot this afternoon as well.

So I just particularly wanted to pick up on the point from from the member from the hon. Gentleman for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk on the point about deteriorating signal in many areas. This is a problem that's getting worse, not better, and we need to really focus in on that. And I think probably the issue there is because of the quality and the capacity of the signal rather than the coverage. We're using coverage as a shorthand, and we need to have a high quality, high capacity signal in all of those places, too.

The the hon. Lady for Carlisle made some very good points about spectrum and licensing, and I fear that the 5G licensing licenses already having been issued without those quality parameters in them, mean that there has been a missed opportunity. And the hon. Lady for Caerfyrddin mentioned the importance of satellite solutions in filling in some of those gaps which might overcome some of the issues around planning, actually. So I hope that the Minister is looking at that in the future as well.

And I would just like to thank everybody once more.
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16:47
Sarah Edwards Portrait Sarah Edwards MP (Tamworth, Labour)
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near Hagley. 12 children and their teacher lost their lives, and among teacher lost their lives, and among them was Liz and Steve's beloved daughter, Claire. I first met Liz and Steve while campaigning in my and Steve while campaigning in my by election in 2023. They bravely shared their story with me and shared their story with me and invited me to support their ongoing campaign to make school minibuses safer so that no child would ever safer so that no child would ever be put at risk whilst travelling to or from school activity.

Since then, I have stood with them in their tireless efforts to improve safety, not just for children who travel in these vehicles, but also for the teachers and the staff who are asked to drive them. More than 30 years have now passed since that tragedy and whilst important improvements have been made in areas such as seat belt provision and vehicle construction standards, the underlying regulatory framework that allows teachers to drive minibuses without full professional training remains largely unchanged. Children's safety should not be up for debate.

This is about reducing the risks that we already know can be prevented, and it's about asking whether the legal framework that governs the transport of pupils to and from school activities truly matches the weight of that responsibility. Every time a child steps onto a school minibus, parents are placing their trust in the system that stands behind it. That system must be strong, consistent, and above all, capable of keeping every child safe. At the moment, many of us believe that that falls short.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the system that governs school minibuses is built around what are known as section 19 permits introduced under the Transport Act of 1985. These permits allow not for profit organisations, including schools, to run minibuses without holding a full public service vehicle operator's licence. Under this system, drivers must meet certain basic licensing conditions, however, they are not required to hold a full passenger carrying vehicle licence, nor are they required by law to undertake accredited professional training. The official guidance, dated from 2013, states that drivers must be suitably trained and correctly licensed.

It even recognises that minibuses are driving of a minibus requires additional skills, and it's simply not the same as driving a large car. But this is guidance, it is advisory and there are no checks by the DfE or Ofstead on its implementation or use. Schools are encouraged to consider specialist training, but they're not required to do so, and at the moment, guidance is not strong enough to guarantee children's safety. That is why, alongside Liz and Steve Fitzgerald and the Nasu Union, I have been calling for stronger, clearer regulations to make sure that every child can travel safely and that teachers and staff are properly trained and supported to carry out this responsibility.

It is also important to understand how and why this framework came about. Section 19 and 22 did not emerge from a careful review of child passenger safety. They were shaped largely by European market rules designed to regulate competition. In other words, the system we rely on today was driven more by economic considerations than by the safety of schoolchildren. That historical origin has left us with a framework that is fragmented and confusing. Private schools that are not charities are treated as commercial operators, and they must hold a full operator's licence, meet strict financial and safety requirements and appoint a qualified transport manager.

They must employ fully licensed, professional trained drivers with regulated hours, and this is a comprehensive legal framework designed to protect children and ensure accountability. By contrast, many state schools transport children daily under the section 19 permits without those same safeguards. They operate largely on guidance rather than on law, with no mandatory training or oversight. In practice, teachers may minibuses at the end of a full teaching day without the protections required for drivers. This raises a simple but troubling question why should a child's safety depend on the type of school that they attend? Why should children in private schools travel under a full safety regime, while children in state schools rely on discretion and goodwill? I do not criticise independent schools.

They are complying with the law. The problem is a two tier system that affords different levels of protection to children, and that is unfair and unacceptable. The inconsistency goes further across the UK. Standards vary by nation and in Northern Ireland, for example, driving a school minibus without a full D1 licence can be a disciplinary offence. Children's safety should not depend on a postcode or school type or geography. Every child deserves the same standards and the same protections, and the same assurance that those responsible for their transport are properly trained and accountable.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the government recently stated in a Transport Select Committee that it does not wish to relax D1 licence requirements for community minibus drivers, citing road safety concerns. Around 1 in 5 candidates fail the D1 test even after extensive training, and that failure rate is a clear indication of the level of skill and competence required to operate these vehicles safely.

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Well, my hon. Friend, give way on that point. I will give way. Leigh Ingham I'm really concerned that you could fail a test to drive a minibus in a professional setting, but it doesn't stop you from driving one in a school setting because you don't need the D1 licence under the current system in schools. So why is it not required when driving children to and from school activities? It fundamentally doesn't make sense to me. Does the

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hon. Member agree? Sarah Edwards I thank the Member for her intervention and that is precisely my concern. It does not really make any sense at all, given that what's been cited is the inability to drive something. So if we've got children, we should surely have the same standards as a minimum or even higher. So under that current system, just to her point, a teacher over the age of 21 with just two years driving experience and holding only a standard category B car licence, can legally drive a minibus carrying children without holding a full passenger carrying vehicle licence and without undertaking any mandatory accredited training.

So too could the individual that has failed their D1 test previously. They can still drive a minibus full of children, so this creates a stark and troubling inconsistency in the government's own stated aims. In every other context, professional passenger transport is treated as high risk and with rigorous training, testing and regulation to protect passengers. But when it comes to school children, the most vulnerable passengers, some might argue the law allows them to be transported under a system that relies on guidance rather than statutory safeguards.

So we must ask ourselves if the government recognises the dangers and the skill to drive a minibus in every other setting, why does it not apply the same standards to those entrusted with the lives of children? The safety of our school pupils should not be left to chance or goodwill. Now. Current guidance recognises the dangers of driver fatigue and advises against long journeys after a day of work. But these are only recommendations and in practice, teachers are often expected to drive minibuses at the end of long teaching days.

They're responsible for driving larger, more complex vehicles whilst also supervising pupils at the same time, and in some cases they are the only adult on board. That presents serious risk in the event of a breakdown, an emergency or a behavioural incident. And this is not about blaming teachers, they are dedicated professionals, but the system places an enormous responsibility on them. Without the professional safeguards that exist in other areas of professional passenger transport, it is no surprise that growing numbers of teachers are choosing not to drive minibuses, citing stress and concerns around personal liability.

There is also clear confusion and inconsistency in the system. Guidance on the section 19 permits has been interpreted in different ways, and some local authorities and academy trusts apply their own requirements that differ from the national guidance. That certainly doesn't make children safer. The Nasuwt teaching union has described the current regime as not fit for purpose, and a 2024 survey found inconsistent compliance with legal requirements and guidance across many schools. In some cases, management is aware of the shortcomings, in others, problems arise because guidance was unclear and the training was lacking.

Vehicle faults and poor maintenance have been identified, leaving teachers unknowingly responsible for the roadworthiness of the vehicle. The same survey found that 24% of teachers felt pressured to drive a minibus, despite feeling unqualified to do so, and also the Nasuwt guidance that is available to teachers. The union ultimately advises that staff are not to drive minibuses at all due to the legal, safety and personal liability risks involved. Now, concerns have also been raised about the use of lightweight minibuses, which are basically converted vans fitted with seats.

Many of these vehicles weigh less than 3.5 tonnes, and it allows schools to bypass the training and licensing requirements that would otherwise apply to those who obtained their category B car licence after 1997. In effect, these vehicles have become a cheaper workaround for schools, but that cost saving comes with significant safety compromises. These lightweight minibuses often lack essential features such as side impact protection or full airbag coverage, leaving children and staff more vulnerable in the event of a collision.

In practice, gross vehicle weight limits are not always routinely checked before journeys begin, and many teachers are unaware that once they take a vehicle onto the road, they are legally responsible not only for the driving, but also ensuring that the vehicle is roadworthy and compliant with regulations. This combination of underequipped vehicles, insufficient oversight and limited professional training creates a serious safety risk. Teachers can find themselves responsible for dozens of children in a vehicle that is not designed to carry them safely, with no backup.

If something goes wrong, and this risk is not theoretical, it is a real and present danger that must be addressed. We should not accept a system where cost, convenience, or outdated loopholes determine the level of protection that children receive. Every child in every school should be transported in a vehicle that meets robust safety standards, and is driven by somebody that is properly trained and supported by a clear and enforceable legal framework. The so-called short distance exemption further complicates matters. The section 19 permit assumes that journeys will normally take place within a ten mile radius, except in rural areas, but many schools, including church schools and large academy trusts, are operating across several counties.

They may well regularly travel beyond that distance for sports fixtures and other activities. When what is meant to be exceptional becomes routine, it is reasonable to ask whether the legal framework is still fit for purpose. At the same time, parents are often unaware of the regulatory distinctions that underpin school transport. Traditional written consent forms once gave parents a clearer understanding of arrangements. Increasing reliance on digital systems means that many parents simply assume that a robust, uniform standard is already in place.

But how many parents have been informed prior to a trip and asked if they were happy for their child to be driven in a minibus by a teacher or staff member, that could not demonstrate the level of training required for professional minibus operators. Madam Deputy Speaker, after everything that we have heard and considered today, it is clear that the current system is failing both children and staff. We are allowing a two tier approach to safety where the child. The protection of a child receives depends on the type of school that they attend and that cannot continue.

And I have met with Ministers from the Department of Transport in May of 2025 and more recently with the Department of Education, but we're yet to see some of these changes. This issue.

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Order, order I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. The question. Is that this House do now

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Is that this House do now adjourn. Sarah Edwards continue.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Right. There we go. Right. My Right. There we go. Right. My apologies. This issue was not mentioned in the government's road safety strategy, and I've already safety strategy, and I've already raised that concern with the Minister. And that is why I am raising it here in the House today, to provide the detail and substance behind those concerns. For the official record. The road safety strategy set out excellent ambition for the protection of road users and cites issues around appropriate licences, which I applaud, and a piece of work that I know the Minister is rightly proud of, and I raise the issue of the use of continued permits for school minibus driving, precisely because it cuts across the sentiment of that strategy.

And I'm disappointed that terms like community transport or school minibuses don't appear in the document at present. Despite these inconsistencies being known to departments. So I ask the Minister to take action. And these are our suggestions. All schools, whether state funded or independent, must be held to the same safety standards with best practice and absolute minimum. Section 19 permits for schools should be replaced with statutory regulations moving from guidance based to enforceable legal standards, and aligning all school minibus operations with the road safety priorities, rather than simply community exemptions.

The Department for education should also have a list of all associated minibuses that schools use and operate, regardless of whether they are a local authority or academy trust school. This information should be jointly shared with the Department for transport, because at present no such information exists and nor does the ability to extract minibus accident data from generic passenger vehicle data, meaning that minibuses are treated as the same as buses and coaches in government data, and this makes further analysis of the issue difficult.

The professionalisation of school minibuses must be mandated, and all drivers should hold a Passenger carrying Vehicle licence or a D1 qualification in order to operate a school minibus. Every school fleet should be overseen by a transport manager, and drivers must undergo checks on eyesight, health and driving records. The use of lightweight minibuses must be phased out or banned. Children should travel in vehicles built to proper safety standards and not leave it down to cost saving measures. A national inspection and enforcement regime must be introduced.

The DVSA inspections should cover all school transport and not just commercial operators, with vehicles and drivers tracked in a centralised and transparent system. The legal grey areas must be clarified. The government guidance should remove the ambiguity around terms such as volunteer, higher or reward and non-commercial, and it must be court tested and enforceable. Teacher wellbeing and safety must be protected, and driving duties should not fall to teachers after a full working day. Minibus driving should be recognised as a specialised responsibility in schools and not an informal task, and we also believe that the transport safety should be included in Ofsted inspections and the long term impact of accidents on both pupils and staff, including mental health and trauma, must be taken seriously.

In closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, these are not abstract or minor reforms. They are essential steps to ensure that every child can travel safely to and from school activities, and that adults entrusted with that responsibility are fully supported, trained and accountable. I think of Liz and Steve Fitzgerald and the courage that it has taken them to turn their personal tragedy into a tireless campaign for safer school transport. They're determined. Their determination reminds us all why reform cannot wait. Because, sadly, during the time that we've been campaigning together and meeting Ministers, other such tragedies have occurred.

I urge the government to take steps to close the ambiguity and further their aims for road safety for all who use them. And our children deserve nothing less than a system that guarantees their safety, values teachers who transport them and removes the inequalities and risks that underpin the current framework. It is time for decisive action, and I thank the Minister for coming here today and I commend this

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debate to the House. Thank you, Mr. Minister Lilian Greenwood. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. First of all, I'd like to congratulate my hon. Friend, the Member for Tamworth for securing Member for Tamworth for securing debate on this important subject today, and I pay tribute to her campaigning. I know that she's campaigning. I know that she's shown real determination in working with her constituents, with education unions and others on this education unions and others on this issue throughout her time in this House. The minibus collision on the M40 in 1993 was a truly dreadful incident, and my heart goes out to all those parents and families, including Mr.

and Mrs. Fitzgerald, who suffered such an awful loss. We all want to do everything we can to ensure such an incident never happens again. Since the tragic crash, many improvements have been made to enhance the safe operation of minibuses. This has included mandatory seat belts in minibuses and coaches, a ban on the crew bus where minibuses had two benches facing each other, and improvements to the driver licensing regime. Road safety statistics show that there has been an overall decrease in the number of incidents and serious collisions involving minibuses over the last ten years.

However, I recognise that there is always more to do and I strongly believe that road safety and the safety of students, school staff and teachers travelling in
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17:06
Lilian Greenwood Portrait Lilian Greenwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Nottingham South, Labour)
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set out in the Transport Act 1985 recognises the value of not for profit organisations that provide profit organisations that provide services for community, social and charitable benefit. There are section 22 permits used for community bus services, and the more common section 19 permits. The permits allow the holder to operate transport services that would otherwise require a full Public service Vehicle Operator licence. Users of section 19 permits will include schools, but also a wide range of charities and community transport operators, supporting trips every day across the country, like dial-a-ride social club trips or camping trips by youth groups.

The permit system was designed because we recognise the value of these activities, and small non-profit making organisations do not always have the capacity of larger commercial ones. Driving a minibus usually requires one entitlement on a licence, as my hon. Friend said, but a vehicle with a section 19 permit can also be driven by someone with two different types of entitlement. Firstly, prior to 1997, car driving licences came with an automatic form of D1 entitlement and secondly, there are also more limited circumstances in which a minibus can still be driven on a car category B driving licence, and those circumstances include being 21 or older, having held the licence for at least two years, driving on a voluntary basis where a minibus is being used for social purposes by a non-commercial body and meeting vehicle weight restrictions.

But even though permits are not a full operator licence, holding them comes with important responsibilities and obligations. Operating and driving minibuses is never to be taken lightly. To support permit holders with their responsibilities, we publish guidance to promote and support the correct and safe use of vehicles operating under permits. That guidance sets out the permit rules and the responsibility of permit holders, including schools, for ensuring the safe operation of vehicles. It includes vehicle maintenance and the guidance sets out recommended arrangements for that.

The guidance also covers the need to ensure that drivers are correctly trained, have the correct driving licence and take adequate breaks. It notes, for example, that drivers should plan more rest breaks than are set out in the regulations if they do not drive for a living, and also that drivers should be given clear written instructions about their responsibilities covering all aspects of vehicle operation. The guidance further sets out that all drivers should be aware of the risks to passenger safety from driving when tired, and that it is not sensible to start a long trip after a full day's work, whether that work involves driving or not.

I might add that no driver, teacher or otherwise should ever be put under pressure to drive a minibus. In addition to the overarching section 19 and 22 permit guidance, we also have specific guidance for schools and local authorities on driving school minibuses. This was published jointly with the Department for education and it outlines driving licence entitlements, training, insurance and other legal requirements. It is of course, important that all our guidance is as clear, direct and helpful as it can be to end users, and I am always open to hearing about ways in which anyone thinks it could be improved.

I also acknowledge the work here of the Midas Minibus Driver Awareness Training Scheme, administered by the Community Transport Association, and used, I understand, by many schools in helping contribute to the improved safety of minibus drivers. Not understanding everything currently done to support permit users. My hon. Friend has raised important and well expressed challenges and they warrant further thought. I acknowledge, for example, the argument she has made about different rules applying to different sorts of schools and the importance of children being safe regardless of such distinctions.

The section 19 permit framework has wide ranging benefits, but it is right to keep challenging ourselves that the system is striking the correct balance between flexibility and safety. I know that my hon. Friend has recently met the Minister for School Standards, and I can commit that. Ministers in both departments will meet to discuss the subject further. I welcome her suggestions and I am sure that they will form the basis of part of that meeting. This government takes road safety very seriously.

As she recognised in the publication of our Road Safety Strategy last month, the strategy sets out a clear and ambitious path to improved road safety in Great Britain, and its targets include a 70% reduction in the number of children under 16 killed or seriously injured on roads in Great Britain by 2035. As she will know, the strategy also includes measures around safe road users and safe vehicles, and proposes further action in relation to those who drive for work.

We plan to develop and launch the national work related Road Safety charter later this year, and I will raise with my officials the point that she raises in relation to schools. I end by thanking my hon. Friend again for her continued interest and advocacy

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on this very important subject. Thank you. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn and say I. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. I wish all of our colleagues a peaceful all of our colleagues a peaceful and productive time and recess in their constituencies, and hopefully some time with their families as well. I look forward to spending well. I look forward to spending time with my nephews, Ali and Adam, who are super fans of Bad Bunny, make me listen to music non-stop make me listen to music non-stop and Ali, and I'm looking forward to teaching me the dance moves next.

Not sure if that's good or bad.
09:00
None Portrait Oral questions: Transport
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