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Live Debate
Commons Chamber
Commons Chamber
Wednesday 18th June 2025
(began 1 month ago)
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This debate has concluded
11:34
Q1. What steps she is taking to ban conversion practices. (904702)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Order, Order, order. Order, order. Questions Order, order. Questions to Order, order. Questions to the secretary of state for women and equalities.
11:35
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Question number one.
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With your permission I will take questions one, 14 and 15 together.
questions one, 14 and 15 together. Let me be clear, conversion practices no place in today's society. This Government is
society. This Government is committed to bringing forward trans inclusive legislation to ban these outdated and abusive acts. This is a complex issue which we want to get absolutely right. We are working
absolutely right. We are working hard to draft legislation which offers protection from these harmful
offers protection from these harmful practices, while also preserving freedom for individuals to explore their identity with appropriate support.
We are working to publish draft legislation later this
11:35
David Burton-Sampson MP (Southend West and Leigh, Labour)
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session.
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Thank you. Since the Supreme Court ruling, many trans people have felt discrimination and a loss of
felt discrimination and a loss of their rights. Despite still being protected under the Equalities Act.
protected under the Equalities Act. I am pleased to hear that the government is bringing forward a trans inclusive conversion therapy
trans inclusive conversion therapy ban, but what else will she do to ensure that trans people know they
belong in our society and our value? -- Are valued.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
-- Are valued. I can indeed give my honourable friend the assurance that our draft legislation on conversion practices will be trans inclusive. It is
11:35
Dame Nia Griffith MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Llanelli, Labour)
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will be trans inclusive. It is crucial that trans people say, included and protected from harm and dissemination. This Government is
actively working on other manifesto commitments to strengthen services and protections for trans people,
including ensuring that all trans people receive appropriate and high quality healthcare and equalising
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all strands of hate crime. I recently met with trans liberation Ballmer, who shared the
11:36
Jessica Toale MP (Bournemouth West, Labour)
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liberation Ballmer, who shared the anxiety about the Supreme Court
ruling with me, which has caused not only confusion in their otherwise supportive workplaces but also
distressing incident for biological women who do not confirm to traditional gender norms. Can the Minister tell me what assurances she can give my constituents that this
Government is committed to ensuring that Bournemouth remains an open and welcoming place for our LGBT+ community? --
11:36
Dame Nia Griffith MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Llanelli, Labour)
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I would indeed give that
assurance. There are laws in place to protect trans people from this relation and harassment and this
remains the case. To be clear, absolutely committed to delivering on our key manifesto commitments
aimed at protecting LGBT+ individuals stop a full trans inclusive ban on conversion practices and our commitment
equalising all strands of hate crime. Dignity and respect everyone runs through every sinew of this Government.
11:37
John Milne MP (Horsham, Liberal Democrat)
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Previous government had promised to bring forward legislation to ban conversion therapy but it has not
happened yet. My constituent in
Horsham tells me recently it had
created fear and uncertainty within the trans community, including the sense of isolation. Will the Minister show the LGBTQ community that they are not ill or something
to be converted and commit to action within the next 12 months?
11:37
Dame Nia Griffith MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Llanelli, Labour)
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I thank the honourable member for his question. As we know, the previous government repeatedly broke
its promises to deliver on the issue
of conversion practices and allowed it to become evermore toxic and divided. This is a key manifesto commitment and we are committed to bringing forward legislation to ban
these abusive practices. We will be publishing our draft bill later this session and we want to work with
Parliament to ensure our legislation is robust and does not negatively impact legitimate support for those
exploring their sexual orientation
or gender identity.
or gender identity.
11:38
Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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Can I thank the Minister very much for her answers. But can the
Minister outline what support is in place for people of all faiths and none to receive counselling that is right and appropriate and give
support and help to find the answers that they all seek?
11:38
Dame Nia Griffith MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Llanelli, Labour)
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As I have explained, we are
absolutely committed to going forward with the ban on conversion practices. But we absolutely want to
make sure that when we legislate, this does not inhibit proper,
genuine, supportive counselling and guidance as people explore their
sexual identity or orientation.
11:39
Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)
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As Liberal Democrats, we have been concerned about the lack of a
draft bill on conversion practices.
So I am relieved to hear what the Minister says today but if I could ask her to reassure the House, that given the amount of fear and anxiety
there is amongst the trans community in the country, that the Bill when it comes forward will be UK wide to
overcome the Scottish Government withdrawal of their proposals? And that further, the government will
consider whether we need fresh legislation in this country to deal
with all the issues in the Equalities Act that have been raised by the EHRC guidance and the Supreme
Court judgement? Court judgement?
11:39
Dame Nia Griffith MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Llanelli, Labour)
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I think that is a real range of questions there. I can absolutely assure her that we are bringing
forward legislation... We are in talks with officials in Scottish
Parliament on that issue, that very issue. And I can assure her that we will be bringing this legislation
forward very soon. And there will be
a proper opportunity for that pre- legislative scrutiny, which I know she will want to take part in.
11:40
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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Number two.
questions two and nine together. Attainable boys is on average lower
than for girls. This government is determined to understand and address
the drivers behind this. We are focused on driving educational excellence everywhere for every child in every school. My Schools
White Paper in the autumn are set out our Vision Pro system that delivers on excellence for everyone. -- Vision for a system. -- Vision for a system.
11:40
Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)
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I thank the Secretary of State
for her answer. Recent research by the Centre for Justice shows that key stage I, the stage II, GCSEs and
A-levels, boys are underperforming girls and we cannot allow half a generation not to be allowed to
reach their full potential. As part of her approach, with the Secretary
of State consider looking at whether boys might need to be taught somewhat differently to girls? somewhat differently to girls?
11:41
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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I'm grateful for the honourable gentlemen's interest in this area
and the constructive way in which is approaching what I think is a really important topic. I too have looked at the research from the Centre for
Social Justice that does provide some important pointers. Do the
Schools White Paper we will consider always in which we can better support boys and young men as one group. That is because when it comes
to free school meals eligible, white British boys we know their performance is particularly low.
And
performance is particularly low. And I have to say that is something we have inherited from the party opposite.
11:41
Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)
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The logic behind having a women's minister was the idea that women present and have different problems
in society. By that logic, men and boys do too. We know about suicide, we have just heard about education
attainment, we have heard about help seeking opportunities. I welcome the
men's health strategy but isn't it time we now have a minister for men
and boys to be able to look across government to deal with education, unemployment, suicide and health to really get to grips with the
problems facing young men and boys?
11:42
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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The honourable gentlemen raises
some important areas of concern.
Whether it is run health outcomes, suicide, educational outcomes and the need to better support boys, young men and men) their lives. You
will appreciate Mr Speaker that minuscule appointment after the Prime Minister, so I will not be
getting ahead of myself and making any announcements today from the Dispatch Box.
11:42
Josh Simons MP (Makerfield, Labour)
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As a boy, Billy Boston dreams of
playing Rugby Union for Wales and for Cardiff he was never selected
because he was black. Again and Rugby League welcomed him with open arms. And Rugby League has always
been a sport that champions equality, it was created by working class men who wanted to be paid a fair wage and now Wigan Warriors
women's team won the challenge cup will stop so will the Secretary of State join me and millions across
the North in celebrating Rugby
League as a sport that has always judge people by the content of their character and not their race, class or sex and in congratulating Billy
and his family are becoming Sir Billy Boston?
Billy Boston? Billy Boston?
11:43
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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I'm grateful to my honourable friend his question and join in my congratulations to Billy and his family. Right across bought we do
want to make sure that no one is held back by outdated stereotypes, whether that relates to their sex,
race or background. As a government we are committed to ensuring that all young people have access to high-quality sport and other opportunities. opportunities.
11:43
Mr Jonathan Brash MP (Hartlepool, Labour)
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As a former A-level teacher, one
of the concerns I had, in addition to the disparities between boys and girls in educational outcome, was
the disparity in educational choice. Physics class, maths classes, dominated by boys, English literature, psychology dominated by
girls. Different subjects that develop different skills. Does the
Secretary of State shared my concern of that disparity and that she had any plans to address it? any plans to address it?
11:44
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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My honourable friend rings real expertise and I listen very
carefully to what he had to say. We will of course consider those issues do the Schools White Paper later this autumn. The Curriculum and
Assessment Review is also under way and is considering all aspects of how we can make sure that young
people have access to a broad and rich curriculum. I would also add
that in addition we know poverty is a real barrier. Many of our children. That is why I'm delighted this Labour government is expanding free school meals eligibility, lifting 100,000 children out of poverty.
11:44
Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (East Ham, Labour)
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Question number three.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The digital inclusion action plan, published in February, sets
out plans to widen access to devices, drive digital upskilling, breakdown barriers to participation
breakdown barriers to participation and support people in their own communities. The plan highlights disabled people as one of five
priority groups more likely to be digitally excluded, so particularly
11:45
Zöe Franklin MP (Guildford, Liberal Democrat)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
in the focus for the activity. I thank the Minister for his
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the Minister for his answer. My constituent contacted me specifically around the digital inclusion action plan and explain he has a voice disability, spasmodic
has a voice disability, spasmodic dysphoria, and as a result his job is to access essential services
through automated phone systems, they just can't understand his
voice. There is often no clear way to bypass the systems and alternatives like web chat are slow
and ineffective. This is a growing issue for many people with communication disabilities, what steps is the Minister taking Cabinet colleagues to ensure services remain
accessible and will this be addressed to digital inclusion action plan?
11:46
Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (East Ham, Labour)
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The honourable lady raises a very interesting point. The action plan outlines five initial actions,
including an ambitious digital
inclusion innovation fund. I do not know whether there are ideas there that could be taken forward to address the concerns that she is
raising. But we do want to be ambitious in all of this and in the
Green Paper, Pathways to Work, published a couple of months ago, we
talked about assistive tech making that more widely available and maybe there are some solutions there that
could be taken forward.
I would be very interested to talk to her about
11:46
Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )
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Two weeks ago I met hollow job
centre and met the fantastic work coaches there and what they are doing to help people in hollow get
into employment. Digital inclusion was one of the issues they raise. Does the Minister agree that something we need to look at is how
we can support people back to work, give them more face-to-face appointment and help provide
training in digital skills they need it?
11:47
Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (East Ham, Labour)
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My honourable friend is right.
One important issue is the tech available in jobcentres, making sure that as appropriate for what people
need. Part of the action plan is the
launch this summer of the IT for Reuse Charter coating organisations to set up donation schemes so they
can play a helpful part as well.
11:47
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Question number four Mr Speaker.
to 10 years for an endometriosis diagnosis, we are committed to improving the diagnosis, treatment,
and ongoing care for women with gynaecological conditions. This
includes approving two new pills to treat endometriosis this year.
Investing £5.6 million into much- needed research and taking action to cut gynaecology waiting lists
throughout elective reform plan. Government is committed to prioritising women's health, and
rebuild an NHS fit for the future.
11:48
Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)
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I would like to thank the
Minister for her answer. I know my constituent, Samantha, who asked me to raise this question today will
also be grateful for that reply. Further to her response, I wonder if the Minister will work with
colleagues across government to ensure that once the Employment
Rights Bill has passed, the needs of those with mental health conditions like endometriosis are properly
reflected in guidance and employer support. And the organisations such
as Endometriosis, can be engaged in this process.
this process.
11:48
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank my honourable friend for raising this was the far too many women like Samantha are forced to
leave work because they don't get the support they need. That is why we are meeting the needs of women
with endometriosis in the workplace with a number of measures in the Employment Rights Bill. Strengthening Statutory Sick Pay,
making flexible working available to more people, and opening up conversations about women's through
employer action plans, this will benefit all employees managing the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
condition. We are turning the commitments in the Women's Health Strategy into tangible actions. Thank you Mr Speaker. What
11:49
Gregory Stafford MP (Farnham and Bordon, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. What commitment Can the minister give
commitment Can the minister give that community die centre program that was started under the Conservative government, I will
start again, what commitments can
the Minister give that the Community
Diagnostic Centre Program started on the last governance will be used
effectively to treat not just endometriosis but all of those conditions listed in the Women's Health Strategy? Health Strategy?
11:49
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank the honourable gentleman for his question. He will be aware
that we are taking forward a number of measures as part of the Women's Health Strategy. He will also know
that as a result of our pilot on women's hubs, which have been established in 41/42 Integrated care
systems, we are working to make sure
that we are supporting women's. And
tackling women's health and continuing to engage with local areas to use the learnings from
women's health hubs to improve local delivery of services.
delivery of services.
11:50
Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)
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Women are waiting up to 10 years
before diagnosis for endometriosis. Our Women and Equalities Committee
report recommends a maximum of two MAC years, which is still a long time to live with intense pain. But it would still be an improvement.
Given reproductive health issues cost the UK economy £11 billion a year, the sooner conditions are
treated, the sooner women can get on with their lives. Does the Minister agree that investing in women's is
essential? How is she raising the importance of the Women's Health Strategy with her colleagues and the
Health Secretary?
11:51
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank my honourable friend for
the question. She is right that we need a focus on women's health. That
is why our priorities on turning the commitments in the Women's Health Strategy into tangible actions, such as setting out how we will eliminate
cervical cancer by 2040 through the new plan. We have taken urgent
action to support the nearly 600,000 women who are on gynaecology waiting
lists throughout elective reform plan.
11:51
Carla Lockhart MP (Upper Bann, Democratic Unionist Party)
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One in 10 women in Northern Ireland report endometriosis with an average waiting time for diagnosis
and unacceptable 9 1/2 years. Would you agree with me that there needs
to be a UK-wide strategy that equips
our NHS with experienced surgeons, fertility experts, mental health and pain specialists to aid these women
who are on the most horrific painful journey? journey?
11:52
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank the member for raising this. She is right that it is unacceptable that women can wait up to 10 years for an endometriosis
diagnosis. The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence has
updated guidelines on endometriosis and makes further recommendations on referral and investigations. This
will also help women receive diagnosis and effective treatment faster. It is important that we
continue to work across the whole of the UK posties we can on this important issue.
11:52
Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (East Ham, Labour)
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Question number five.
raise this. The current system does
track too many inequalities. We want to disabled people to have chances in work which others have always taken for granted. We all invest an
extra £1 billion a year in work health and skills support.
11:53
Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)
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I have spoken with several disabled constituents who are fearful of the proposed cut to the
limited capability for work, and
that element of Universal Credit was the research shows that one in four disabled people with complex needs would be pushed into debt if these
changes go ahead. With the Minister and his colleagues in the Department
for Work & Pensions review this damaging proposal?
11:53
Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP, The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (East Ham, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. At the
moment there are 200,000 people out of work on health and disability grounds would love to be in a job
until it could be in a job today if
they had the support. We are determined to provide them with that support. support.
11:53
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Is the Minister knows, PIP is a
passport benefit for Carer's Allowance will stop the government impact assessment suggests approximately 150,000 family carers will lose out due to the proposed
will lose out due to the proposed changes to the eligibility of PIP. What further analysis has the government done of the financial government done of the financial impact of welfare reform on family carers?
11:54
Anna Dixon MP (Shipley, Labour)
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We are consulting on the support
that will be needed for those, perhaps one in 10 over the next few
perhaps one in 10 over the next few years, one in 10 of those currently claiming PIP. Support will be needed
claiming PIP. Support will be needed for those who lose their benefits, and that will include family care for those who receive Carer's Allowance at the moment. Allowance at the moment.
11:54
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Question number six.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr Speaker, we are taking firm action across government to deliver our unprecedented ambition to hard
our unprecedented ambition to hard violence against women and girls in a decade. This is underpinned by a new government strategy to be
new government strategy to be published this summer. Last year we
published this summer. Last year we launched new Domestic Abuse Protection Orders and set out new measures to tackle stalking. Through the safer streets mission board,
11:55
Irene Campbell MP (North Ayrshire and Arran, Labour)
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the safer streets mission board, ministers across government regularly meet to discuss this.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Mr Speaker. It saddens me to see an article in the Glasgow
me to see an article in the Glasgow Times about the rise of sex crimes as Scottish train station. Sexual
abuse compensation found there had been a 45% increase in sex crimes at
Scottish stations the total of 87 crimes reported in 2024. Does the Minister agree with me that women
should be able to use public transport without fear of assault? Could you tell me what her
11:55
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Could you tell me what her department is doing to tackle issues like this? I thank my honourable friend for raising this. She is absolutely
raising this. She is absolutely right. Everyone should feel safe while on public transport. That is
why we have developed an ambitious program to help make the transport network safe for women and girls.
The British Transport Police also uses over covert policing techniques to target offenders using the
network. To promote reporting of sexual offences have committed to
tackling VAWG in their policing plan which, with her experience in this area, she may be interested to
discuss with them.
11:56
Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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On Friday my bill is due for Second Reading to stop because of the government to publish a strategy
to tackle interpersonal abuse and violence against men and boys. A strategy that will ensure that men
and boys victims of crimes are given dedicated support but also prevent
male survivors from having to be in spaces that should be for women. The
company included within the strategy for women and girls due to be published this summer. Could the
Minister reassure me and those male survivors in desperate need of support that the government will introduce a dedicated strategy for introduce a dedicated strategy for men and boys? If not why not?
11:56
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank the honourable gentleman for raising his question. This is an issue that does affect women and
girls more. I take the point that he is raising. It is important that all
people get the support that they need. I will look forward to looking at his Private Members' Bill closely.
11:57
Saqib Bhatti MP (Meriden and Solihull East, Conservative)
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Shadow Minister.
time again we on this side of the house ask the government to hold a national statutory inquiry into the
grooming gang scandal. Time and time again government ministers insisted the five local inquiries would be
enough despite there being a suspected 50 towns with grooming gangs operating in them and reported
by Charlie Peters from GB News. After the Casey Review, and the announcement of the National
commission, what reassurances continue to victims that five of the 50 suspected towns will be
investigated? In a town or city which refuses to have an inquiry, where there is suspected grooming
gang operating, although it is to be able to compel the Commissioner to investigate? Does the government
have any accountability whatsoever?
11:57
Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Mr Speaker, the Shadow Minister
may not have listened to the statement closely on Monday because
that was also confirmed by the Home Secretary. What's that Shadow
Minister may want to know is earlier this year, the financial Times told us the reality of what went on
inside the last government when it came to the report of Alexis Jay.
They said Number 10 urged Home Office ministers to " Do more to engage with Alexis drop a plan for recommendations.
" What one veteran
admitted as the report came at at an
unfortunate time and it was de- prioritised or forgotten. Forgotten or de-prioritised and yet now they have the cheek to lecture this
government about the action we are taking to support and protect victims.
11:58
Topical questions: Women and Equalities
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Tropical.
11:58
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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Thank yous is bigger. I'm proud
to be driving our opportunity mission as part of this government Plan for Change, to break the link between background and success. As
part of our spending review, we have announced extending free school meals to all children with a parent
on Universal Credit. Lifting 100,000 children out of poverty by the end of the Parliament. This is the difference a Labour government makes.
11:59
Ian Sollom MP (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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I Mr Speaker. My constituent,
Theo, who is blind, has not received a single usable braille paper
despite being nearly one year into his A-levels. Reports that his GCSE papers last year contained so many errors they were nearly impossible
to use. Will the Minister take immediate action to ensure exam
boards fulfil their legal duties under the Equality Act to provide accessible examination materials,
and urgently review the monitoring of this?
11:59
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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I'm concerned to hear of the honourable gentleman's experience
was if you could provide me with information I will make sure it is properly investigated.
11:59
Irene Campbell MP (North Ayrshire and Arran, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I was
shocked to read recently that Ofsted found 80% of teenage girls being put under pressure to provide sexual
images of themselves as well as being contacted multiple times a night asking for these pictures. The
Minister tell me how social media is being considered in a wider strategy which tackles violence against women
and girls?
12:00
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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I'm grateful to my honourable
friend. I share her concern about what she has just set out about the impact it has on young women and
girls. It is why the science and technology secretary has bring forward further action to make sure girls are protected from harm and it
is also why later on this year we will publish updated guidance to tackle all forms of misogyny and
make sure that young men and young women are able to thrive. women are able to thrive.
12:00
Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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Page 86 of Baroness Casey's
report says there are a worrying number of live investigations covering an overlap between child
sexual exploitation and criminal exploitation, which notes a
significant proportion of cases appearing to involve suspects who
are claiming asylum. Will the Secretary of State confirm which Ministers is directly responsible for safeguarding our communities?
Including those housed in asylum hotels. And going forward, if any individual moves into the community
in changed accommodation, if the Government managed to close hotels as they claim, any dangers transferred from hotels to the wider
community is accountable? community is accountable?
12:01
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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Right honourable lady will know that the Home Secretary made an extensive statement to Parliament
setting out the actions that this government will take to address the many failures left behind by the party opposite. Baroness Casey
outlined a decade of lost time, a failure to deliver justice for victims. This Government will act, we will root out all farms of child sex station, will keep children safe
from harm and make sure that perpetrators are finally prosecuted. perpetrators are finally prosecuted. -- All forms of child sex exploitation.
12:02
Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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We know that the decades too many
people block there is an turned their backs on towns and individuals asking for help as well as national calls. Can the Secretary of State
confirm those in their ivory towers in Whitehall too can now be compelled to give evidence under
oath on their actions and assumptions, including, vitally
including senior civil servants, former Crown prosecution is employees and previous directors of
public prosecutions? public prosecutions?
12:02
Rt Hon Bridget Phillipson MP, Minister for Women and Equalities (Houghton and Sunderland South, Labour)
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As the Home Secretary set out on
Monday, anyone found to have been responsible for covering up or for
hiding vile crimes of child sexual abuse must and will be prosecuted. I would say to the right honourable lady, they had a decade, that was
the lost decade that Baroness Casey talked about. The recommendations from Alexis Jay sat on a shelf and were not acted upon. This government
immediately brought forward the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill to deliver the biggest upgrade in child protection legislation in a
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generation, which they opposed. Before we come to Prime Minister's Questions, can I welcome
12:03
Prime Minister's Question Time
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Minister's Questions, can I welcome
to the gallery the Speaker of...
12:03
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Question number one.
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Thank you, I have been asked to reply by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister who has been
the Prime Minister who has been attending the G7 summit in Canada. In an era of global instability, we are working with our partners to urge deescalation in the Middle
urge deescalation in the Middle East, put pressure on Russia to agree for a ceasefire and deliver security for the British people. The
security for the British people. The air India plane crash last week was
devastating.
Our thoughts and condolences are with everyone affected by this awful incident and we are working closely with Indian authorities to support those in
authorities to support those in need. Nine years ago we lost our beloved friend and colleague, Jo Cox. Who is a beacon of positivity
Cox. Who is a beacon of positivity and courage and her legacy lives on. I must also take this opportunity to
I must also take this opportunity to also remember Sir David Amess, last -- much missed by the whole of the House.
This Sunday marks Windrush
Day. We celebrate the extraordinary contribution the window's --
contribution the window's -- Windrush generation and their descendants were country. This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, in addition to my duties in this
12:04
Adrian Ramsay MP (Waveney Valley, Green Party)
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in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. Given the strong consensus across
this House on the importance of deescalation in the deeply worrying
conflict between Israel and Iran, does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that the actions of this House must
match its words? And will she therefore commit that before any further military support is given to the Israeli government, whether the
potential deployment of the RAF jets or deployment of Armed Forces, that
her government will first give MPs in this House a Free vote?
12:05
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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The situation in the Middle East is fast moving and deeply concerning. There is a clear potential for significant and rapid worsening of the situation. And
every step that we take we will always be guided by what the safety of British nationals and the UK
national interest. That is why we
have deployed jets to the region, so contingencies support is in place
for our Armed Forces personnel and why we are asking British nationals to register their presence and will keep all advice under review.
keep all advice under review.
12:05
Olivia Bailey MP (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)
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Too many of my constituents are stuck in unsuitable housing. And after 14 years of inaction from the
party opposite, local families are being split up because there are not
enough affordable homes. Can I welcome this government's plans to turbocharge the delivery of social
and affordable housing, including through the new National Housing Bank with me and asked my right honourable friend to confirm that
this Government will finally give my
constituents the security that they deserve. deserve.
12:06
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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She is absolutely right to talk about the 14 years of failure by the Conservatives. Labour is turning the tide on the housing crisis and I'm
proud to announce today our commitment to establish a new publicly owned National Housing
Bank, back by £16 billion of new
finance. This includes £2.5 billion in low interest loans for social houses to help achieve the biggest
uplift to social and affordable housing in a generation.
housing in a generation.
12:06
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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Thank you. I associate myself with the Deputy Prime Minister's remarks about the tragic air crash in India. And of course what she
said about Andy colleagues, Jo Cox and Sir David Amess. -- Our deal
colleagues. I also join her in calling for deescalation between Israel and Iran, while noting everything possible being done to stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon.
Yesterday the Leader of the Opposition and I met with survivors
and family members of the rape gang scandal. Fiona, Teresa, Lucia and
Marlon.
They told us how authorities deliberately covered up the systematic rape of young girls and some boys by gangs of predominantly
Pakistani heritage men. They covered
it up because they cared more about so-called community relations than about protecting vulnerable girls. That is disgusting. The survivors told us they would only have
confidence in an inquiry if it is independently led, has full
statutory powers, covers all 50 towns affected, including Bradford.
If those who cover this up are prosecuted, if foreign perpetrators are all deported, survivors are
closely involved and if it is set up before the summer recess.
Can the
Deputy Prime Minister the survivors and their families those assurances? and their families those assurances?
12:08
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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First of all can I thank him for
his tone and putting the survivors and victims at the heart of this
question here today. I think it is
absolutely right that we all look at what has happened over the last couple of decades, the countless reports we have had and we look to
implement that. He is absolutely right to also talk about the confidence people must have in that
independent inquiry. And my friend, the shadow secretary, spoke about that earlier this week in regards to Baroness Casey's report.
We will
take that forward at speed. It will be independent, it will have statutory powers and we will
implement the Jay Report, which he
will have known about as the shadow minister... The Minister in charge at the time, and we will get on with
taking the action. I hope members of
taking the action. I hope members of his party will take his tone in making sure the whole house put the victims first and we all work together to get to the bottom of this.
this.
12:09
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for her answer. It is vital that scandals like this are never again covered up because of the racial
background of perpetrators. Baroness Casey's report said people who downplay the ethnic dimension are
letting victims down, to use her words. I do have to raise the
language the Prime Minister used in January, when he, I'm afraid to say, smear campaigners, is jumping on,
"Far-right bandwagon" Simply for calling for the very inquiry he has
been bought to set up.
Standing up for rape victims is not far-right.
So, will the Deputy Prime Minister apologise for what the Prime Minister said?
12:09
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I say that the Prime Minister did not just raise issues but acted on
them. He brought the first prosecutions against grooming gangs,
called for action to address ethnicity issues in 2012. The honourable member will note that the
data that the previous government collected was inaccurate and not complete and Casey recognise this as
one of the recommendations that we will be taking forward. The Prime Minister made those comments
specifically about Tory Ministers who sat for years in the government and did absolutely nothing about
this scandal.
12:10
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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Smearing campaigners, standing up
for rape victims as far-right is completely unacceptable and the Prime Minister should never have
said that. I commend his predecessor, the member for Richmond, for the grooming gangs taskforce he set up, which led to
550 arrests in the first year. Baroness Casey's report also said that a significant number of rape
gang perpetrators were non-UK nationals or were asylum seekers.
Many of whom entered the country illegally. And we know of course that most illegal immigrants crossing the Channel our young men,
contrary to what the chief secretary said last week.
Does the Deputy
Prime Minister now except that the small boats crisis is a crisis of public safety as well as a border
crisis?
12:11
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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This is a very serious issue and
more needs to be done, let me update the House. Working with our allies
we have carried out a series of major arrested tackle smuggling gangs behind this mild trade. In the past month, a ringleader that smuggled almost 4,000 migrants has
been trade Just jailed for 45 years.
We can go faster thanks to the law enforcement agreements we have signed, in stark contrast to the
honourable gentlemen, he was a man at the heart of the Home Office when
immigration sawed, we lost control of our borders and spent £700 billion of taxpayers money on
persuading just four volunteers to be removed from Rwanda, I will take
be removed from Rwanda, I will take no lectures.
-- behind this vile trade. trade.
12:12
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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She was a find out who lost control of our borders, I suggest you look to her immediate right. Because ever since the Home
Secretary scrap Rwanda deterrent
before it even started, illegal immigration across the channel has gone up by over 30%. And so far this
year, 2025 has been the worst year in history for illegal immigrants
crossing the Channel, that is on her watch, that is down to her government. The Prime Minister is
now planning crisis talks with President Macron, finally admitting
in his own words that the situation is deteriorating.
The Government's laughable plan to smash the gangs
laughable plan to smash the gangs
lies in tatters. Will she now last except we need a removals deterrent,
so every single illegal immigrant arriving on the shores is immediately removed? Will she commit to that, yes or no? to that, yes or no?
12:13
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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If they want to argue that 40,000
arrivals since July 24 are down to the scrapping of the Rwanda scheme,
they need to explain why there were more than 43,000 arrivals in the same period starting in July 22, when the Rwanda agreement wasn't in
place. It is absolute rubbish. They lost control of our borders, we are getting control of our borders, he needs to apologise. needs to apologise.
12:13
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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I do not see how she has the brass neck to claim she has it under control... When the numbers crossing
the Channel this year are the highest in history. She asks about
the Rwanda deterrent, she obviously was not listening to what I said earlier, the Rwanda scheme never
started. And illegal in rents in
Calais -- illegal immigration Calais...
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Order, order. I wanted the question and I'm sure our constituents want to hear the
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question and the answer. The Rwanda scheme never started,
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The Rwanda scheme never started, illegal immigrants in Calais were saying before the election how much they wanted the Prime Minister to get elected because he would help
get elected because he would help them get to stop when Australia started a similar scheme about 10 years ago it worked within a few
years ago it worked within a few months. As a consequence of the government losing control, they are
government losing control, they are now accommodating growing numbers of illegal immigrants, many of whom cross the channel, in asylum hotels and flats.
The home offices
and flats. The home offices suppliers are now actively offering above market deals to landlords to get hold of their properties to be
get hold of their properties to be used for illegal immigrants. In the meantime, hard-pressed young people here are unable to rent or buy. So
here are unable to rent or buy. So why is this government prioritising housing for illegal immigrants above housing for our young people?
12:15
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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housing for our young people?
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Again, I gently say to the right honourable member opposite that under their watch, immigration increased fourfold until it reached
increased fourfold until it reached almost one million in a single year.
almost one million in a single year. They also created the backlog, 400 hotels which we have reduced to just
hotels which we have reduced to just over 200 hotels in the first 12
over 200 hotels in the first 12 months of us being in government... We are building the homes they
We are building the homes they failed to deliver, over 14 years of consecutive failure by their government, they should apologise
12:15
Rt Hon Chris Philp MP (Croydon South, Conservative)
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while we get on with the job of rebuilding Britain. Goodness me she has a cheek. Housing stock in quarter four last
Housing stock in quarter four last year went down, her mission to
rebuild Britain is not going well. She talked about asylum hotels, shoppers he has not looked at the
most recent numbers. The number of people in asylum hotels was higher in March this year than it was at the time of the last election. And
she gave no answer about the priority being given to illegal immigrants over people living here already.
A Zimbabwean paedophile due
for deportation was recently allowed to stay in the UK because a court
found he might face, "Some hostility" Back in Zimbabwe. Apparently breaching his article 3
right. What about the rights of children here to be protected from
this dangerous paedophile? Who is looking out for their right? Not the government. There are thousands of
cases like this involving foreign criminals. So there is a solution. We need to scrap the Human Rights Act for immigration matters, so this
sovereign Parliament decides on the law our courts apply.
And her party
voted against that. I have a simple question, why did Government side with foreign criminals and not the
with foreign criminals and not the
with foreign criminals and not the with foreign criminals and not the
12:17
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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We have included 4500 foreign nationals that have been deported
since we came into office. More than they did in the same period. I take no lectures from the Jonny come
lately who couldn't do anything when he was in office.
12:17
Anneliese Midgley MP (Knowsley, Labour)
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Last Saturday Mark Beattie isn't
Grenfell. Eight years of fighting for justice. The Hillsborough families including Margaret
Aspinall, have campaigned for 36 years for the Hillsborough Law.
Decades. Can that Deputy Prime Minister tell me today, will this Labour government bring forward the
Hillsborough Law without delay? Will it honour the promises made to
victims of state cover-ups? And will it finally delivered justice for the 97?
12:17
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I thank my honourable friend for the question
and those who have campaigned in their fight for justice. In the eighth anniversary of Grenfell was
not so long ago. We committed to bringing a Hillsborough Law. The
state has failed victims and their families too many times in the past. That is why our focus is now on
getting the legislation right. I assure her that measures will be brought forward as soon we are confident that they will deliver the
justice victims deserve.
We want to do this at pace.
12:18
Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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Deputy of the Liberal Democrats.
of my party may I associate myself with the deputy ministers remarks about the Air India crash. In the
week we remember the murder of Jo Cox and David Amess, the thought of a party with their friends and
families and all those in this House who lost their beloved friends. We also remember those who died in the
Grenfell tragedy. Mr Speaker, in 2003, the Liberal Democrats were incredibly proud to lead the campaign against the Iraq war.
A war
in which the UK blindly followed the US, in a move which was not backed
by the United Nations. In light of reports that President Trump is
seriously considering joining the war between Israel and Iran, launching a US strike against Tehran's nuclear facilities, can the
deputy prime minister confirmed that if President Trump does do this,
today's Labour government will not blindly follow the US into war again? again?
12:19
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, one thing I will say is we agree with President Trump
that Iran must never have nuclear weapons. But we have been consistent in urging Iran to engage in the
diplomatic process and work with the United States. And we continue to
support that diplomatic approach.
12:19
Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I'm grateful to the Deputy Prime
Minister and we support those efforts. Today, the government is
set to unveil its plans to cut Personal Independence Payments and Carer's Allowance, a prospect which
one of my constituents described as terrifying. Liberal Democrat analysis of the government's own
data suggests that 1.3 million disabled people are at risk of losing some support. Can that Deputy
losing some support. Can that Deputy
Prime Minister honestly say and on heart that this is the change that 1 million disabled people and their carers were promised? carers were promised?
12:20
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, Labour is the party of work, and also the party of
fairness. And social justice. We
have announced a plan to get Britain working again we are clear on the principles, that those who want to
work should be able to work. And those who can never work should be protected. The current system we
have inherited does not support those that need that support and also does not allow and enable those
to get opportunities for employment.
I know what she is saying, I know how some people are fearful of the changes but this Labour government
put its values into place and will ensure people are supported into work where they can and where they
cannot they are supportive.
We are the party of the welfare state, we set it up after the Second World War, and we believe it should be
there for people who need it. We should also help people into work.
should also help people into work. should also help people into work.
12:21
Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. Mr Speaker, there are too many
deputies. Mr Speaker, I welcome the government's announcement on
grooming gangs. I'm sorry. Blue I've been floored by the pointscoring
been floored by the pointscoring
going on. On all sides. I wonder if
the Deputy Prime Minister is aware that the victims and survivors of grooming gangs are being denied
compensation by the criminal injury agency on bizarre technicalities?
They also deny all children of online abuse compensation.
For me,
this is a grave injustice, and they think they are better than a judge
and jury. I wonder what the deputy promised the plans to do because promised the plans to do because personally I think they should be abolished.
12:22
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, my honourable friend
is a long-standing advocate for child protection and IP tribute to her campaigning on these issues. We share her determination to do what
is right for victims. And we recognise that no sum of money can never fully compensate for the
horrors that they have experienced. We are committed to funding efforts to tackle child sexual abuse in the
future, and support survivors to rebuilding their lives. That is why
we make it easier for victims to make personal injury claims to the civil courts by removing the three-
year time limit.
And we are reviewing the funding for therapeutic support services.
12:23
Carla Denyer MP (Bristol Central, Green Party)
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This week is refugee week, an
opportunity for this house to show solidarity with those fleeing war, persecution, and depression.
Compassion and welcome our core
British values, but for decades, the Home Office has been undermining those values, as my new report
shows, by treating migration as a crime rather than making it work for
our communities and for newcomers. Will that deputy private estate read the report and consider its recommendations to remove migration
from the responsibilities of a failing Home Office? failing Home Office?
12:23
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, I will commit to
reading the honourable ladies report because I think it is important we take all information on these issues
was not we inherited an asylum system with exceptional strain which
cost up to nine £9 million per day for some we will end the use of hotels through accommodation for asylum seekers minimising the impact
on local communities, and protect and support asylum seekers where it
demonstrate value for taxpayers.
12:24
Jodie Gosling MP (Nuneaton, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. On 1 July, Warwickshire County Council will
permanently remove one of the two
fire engines. The decision is based on dubious data that does not adequately represent the risk to
residents, that accounting for local factors such as high deprivation. The cuts will put people's lives in
The cuts will put people's lives in
danger. With the deputy private estate please look into this matter to further has been sufficient scrutiny and a thorough risk analysis to ensure safety for the analysis to ensure safety for the good resident of Nuneaton?
12:24
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I thank my honourable Friend for
raising this issue. I know that there Fire Minister would be happy to discuss further. I'm committed to
ensuring fire and rescue services across the country have the resources needed to keep communities safe stop the deployment of fire
engines though is decided locally, so this really is a question for Warwickshire County Council, now led by Reform, so the member for Clacton
should have a word with his county councillors and get them to explain why Reform are cutting fire services.
12:25
Pete Wishart MP (Perth and Kinross-shire, Scottish National Party)
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I remember when the Deputy Minister was a fierce critic of austerity and a proud champion for
the disabled. Today the government
is introducing the disability Spill which will push another 250,000
people into poverty. Does she agree that everyone has a right to oppose
such devastating cuts? Is it the Prime Minister's contention to
remove the whip from any Labour MP who does the right thing and vote against these cuts?
12:25
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I gently say to the honourable Member that he talks about
austerity, we have given the biggest amount of increase to Scotland. I
have covered this point in an earlier question Mr Speaker, we are absolutely committed to ending child
poverty. We have already introduced free school meals, we are supporting
family, we have given a living way rise to millions of workers that
need it. We are getting on with the job of rebuilding Britain. He has had decades of failure under
Scotland, they deserve better.
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Derbyshire's Valley is the home of the Industrial Revolution and also
12:26
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the Industrial Revolution and also now a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The community showed sense of purpose that delivered improvements to people's lives. Can my right
honourable friend set out how the government £39 billion investment in
housing will instill that same drive, maintaining the unique character of the East Midlands only
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UNESCO World Heritage Site? I thank him for the questions I
12:27
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I thank him for the questions I know he is a champion for regeneration across his constituency, and he is working hard to get homes built for his
to get homes built for his constituents will stop our Plan for Change will deliver the biggest boost for investment in social and affordable housing in a generation.
For the first time in recent memory, we will be providing a decade of
certainty over the capital funding to build ambitious housing projects
that honour people.
12:27
Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
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The Home Secretary says we should judge her success in smashing the
gangs by whether the number of Channel crossings falls. Under this government, the numbers are up by
more than 30%. By which data should be judged Home Secretary, and if she fails, will she be fired?
12:27
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, they continually vote against measures that we are taking to smash the gangs. We are getting
on with the job Mr Speaker, working internationally to disrupt the apparent work of these smugglers and
gangs, while he harps on from the sidelines. He should apologise for
their record in government which was abysmal.
12:28
Kirith Entwistle MP (Bolton North East, Labour)
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Since becoming an MP, I have
received thousands of pieces of casework from constituents who are
stuck on social housing waiting lists. I recent he had an email from a woman with severe mobility issues,
effectively trapped in her front room while she waits and waits for
suitable social housing. Even when a home becomes available, she'll be forced to compete with other residents because there simply
aren't enough affordable options.
what will this new funding means for constituents and others like her?
12:28
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for highlighting the case because it is
not an isolated case. We inherited a diet situation and there are far too
many people that don't have a safe and secure home that meets their
needs. The Chancellor has announced record funding, almost double the level provided by the previous government, who ended up handing
back the cash for social and affordable homes for top neighbours Plan for Change, renewing our country and investing in Britain's
future.
12:29
Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)
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Father of the House.
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When the government quite rightly gives full and unequivocal support
gives full and unequivocal support to Israel in its bid to end the scourge of Hiran's nuclear weapons
scourge of Hiran's nuclear weapons program for ever, will the government also work with our allies to try and convince the Israeli
to try and convince the Israeli government that it is not in the long-term security interests of Israel to carry on with this policy
Israel to carry on with this policy of illegal settlements in the West Bank? It is simply leading to radicalisation and desperation
radicalisation and desperation throughout the region.
Have not the overwhelming majority of the
overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people had the right to yearn for peace and security in their own homeland, as the Jews
12:29
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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their own homeland, as the Jews yearn for their homeland for 2000 years? Quite I thank the Father of
the House was question. Settler violence and expansion in the West Bank is appalling and typically
unacceptable. Alongside our allies, we have sanctioned individuals
responsible for inciting this extremist action. A two-state solution is anyway to bring peace
that the Israelis and Palestinians deserve. This is only achievable if the hostages are released aid
searches into Gaza and the ceasefire is restored. We will do anything to make it happen.
make it happen.
12:30
Chris Kane MP (Stirling and Strathallan, Labour)
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In Scotland over 10,000 children are stuck in temporary accommodation including many in my constituency
stop too many families face long waiting lists and dwindling options.
It is one of so many policy failings
and people are losing patience as public confidence in the SNP ability to govern collapses. What advice
would she have for the Scottish SNP government they continue to preside over a chronic failure to invest in social and affordable housing in
12:31
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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My honourable friend is right, homelessness levels are thousand
high and has a devastating impact on people affected. Shamefully many people in Scotland have no fixed
time to call their own, record high. Our decisions have given Scotland a record settlement and the larger
since devolution. We saw in Hamilton how Scots are fed up with the SNP's excuses, they have been in power for nearly 2 decades and have nowhere nearly 2 decades and have nowhere left to hide from their failings.
12:31
Ann Davies MP (Caerfyrddin, Plaid Cymru)
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(SPEAKS WELSH). Welsh farmers are
taking hit after hit from Tory trade deals to labour taxes, and on top of
that restrictions affecting Wales and England will hamper cross-border trade. Over 550 farms over the
border and key livestock markets
rely on summer trading. Once in year opportunities like the Royal Welsh show are crucial and the disruption will be devastating. So will the
Deputy Prime Minister commit to working with Welsh Government on a
scheme to compensate for the losses?
12:32
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I gently say to the honourable member, you do not deliver for Wales by voting against the next 1.6
billion for public services like Plaid Cymru did at the Senate. We will be making sure support Wales and support Welsh farmers and will and support Welsh farmers and will continue to do that as a UK Government. -- At the Senedd.
12:32
Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )
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In the spending review last week,
the Government back to Peterborough with support for our new Paul and
sports quarter in the city. This
commitment has the power to 10 years of campaigning into a reality but
that is not all, the government has also recently improve the business case for our new station and given us new police. Can I ask the Deputy
Prime Minister does she agree that this is just the start and that places like Peterborough, that were forgotten for too long by the party
opposite, are now top of this Labour government agenda?
12:33
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for
his comments. And blank by the two ladies who make sure those things happen. The Chancellor has guaranteed funding to accelerate projects like Peterborough's new
sports quarter, including a new Olympic sized swimming pool. I can
also confirm today that subject to the business case approval, we will provide nearly £48 million of funding for a new city centre quarter and a refurbished Eastern
station building.
12:33
Paul Holmes MP (Hamble Valley, Conservative)
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Recently, a small family business in my constituency was burgled by a
prolific offender who was serving an eight-month suspended sentence. The man was caught, arrested, charged
and appeared in court, where he was given another eight months suspended sentence and released. Business was
offered £200 in compensation. Does the Deputy Prime Minister think that is just to serve or is this
Government now soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime?
12:34
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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First of all I am really sorry to
hear about that, hard-working business people that spend a lot of their time building up a business
should expect the full force of the
law to protect their property and protect their interests. Can I also welcome the opportunity to congratulate honourable member for any Hamble Valley's very first pub
competition this year. I hope I'm going to get an invite. But he is absolutely right to say that we have
got to have increased police numbers and making sure they are responsive to people's concerns.
We are doing that, his government let them down.
12:34
Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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... Marked eight years since 72
people lost their lives in the
Grenfell Tower fire. Eight years without justice but finally the prospect of some systemic change following the public inquiry. So I
welcome the government's commitment to barring all the cited companies from accessing public contracts and
its full support to the police investigation to deliver real
accountability. Can the Deputy Prime Minister also reassure our community that alongside the Hillsborough Law, the government will consider some independent oversight, so victims
from the Post Office to Hillsborough to Grenfell no inquiry recommendations will actually lead
to real change?
12:35
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend, the
Grenfell fire was a national tragedy
and we must never forget the 70 like -- 72 lives that were lost, it was an honour to pay my respects on the
eighth anniversary at the weekend. We remain fully committed to introducing the Hillsborough Law, including the legal duty of candour
for public services and criminal sanctions for those who refuse to comply. I know my honourable friend speaks with passion and authority on
this, as I speak to the Grenfell community, I know it is something they really want to see happen as
quickly as possible.
We are exploring reforms to get to the truth more quickly and deliver the meaningful change these victims deserve.
12:36
Peter Fortune MP (Bromley and Biggin Hill, Conservative)
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Is school has been helping
educate Bromley pupils to nearly 75
years but it will close its doors in July due to labours decision to
impose fears he are independent schools -- VAT on in the pencils. Does she welcome this closure or
would she like to apologise to the parents, pupils and staff? parents, pupils and staff?
12:36
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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I have said for a long time that the taxpayers of this country should
not be subsidising tax breaks for private schools. I welcome all
schools that give children a great education but I'm also determined to
ensure we have qualified teachers in every classroom for every child, something their government failed to do.
12:36
Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)
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As a trained physics teacher and
a former engineering lecturer, can I ask the Deputy Prime Minister what this government is doing to help people improve their maths skills
after they have left school? I came across an awful case the other day,
a 61-year-old man who believed he had counted up 7 billion of
government spending when there was really only 27 million. What can we do for people like the leader of reform UK, who evidently cannot add up?
12:37
Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Deputy Prime Minister (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)
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My honourable friend highlight an
important fact, Reforms some simply do not add up. You'll be pleased to know we are investing £136 million
for Skills Bill count and I'll be sure to send the details to the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
honourable member for Clacton. That concludes Prime Minister's
**** Possible New Speaker ****
That concludes Prime Minister's Questions, I will let the Frontbench
12:38
Ministerial statement: Update on the reset of HS2
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We We now We now come We now come to We now come to the We now come to the statement,
secretary of state for transport. secretary of state for transport.
12:38
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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With permission, I would like to make a statement on HS2. As a London
councillor over 15 years ago, I remember hearing the then Labour government bold plans for high speed
government bold plans for high speed
rail. To link our major cities, to address the capacity needs of the future. And in the words of the then Prime Minister Gordon Brown, to join
the high-speed revolution sweeping the world. It was a vision of a
confident nation, a clear signal,
our great towns and cities in the Midlands and the North with potential that had been untapped at best and ignored at worst could be places of opportunity and aspiration
again.
That was the promise of HS2.
again. That was the promise of HS2.
But after a decade and 1/2 of Tory timelines, plans then delayed, roots drawn up and then cancelled, budgets calculated then blown, promises made
them broken, we inherited a project that had lost the trust of the
public, that created an image of a Britain woefully unable to deliver big infrastructure projects and that
swathes of the country it was
originally meant to serve. Phase 1 could end up becoming one of the most expensive railway lines in the
world, with project costs soaring by £37 billion under previous Conservative governments.
And £2
billion of taxpayers money sunk into
phase 2 work before it was cancelled by the previous government. There
was also clear evidence of poor
management. Despite the 22 a -- 2020 oh can be review, advising that government hold instruction contracts pending improvement in price and engineering, they pressed
ahead regardless. It has been no
less than a litany of failure and today I am drawing a line in the
sand, calling time on years of mismanagement, flawed reporting and ineffective oversight.
It means this
Government will get the job done between Birmingham and London. We will not reinstate cancelled sections we cannot afford but we
will do the hard but necessary work
to rebuild public trust and we had not wasted any time. Since July, we
have appointed new leadership of HS2 Ltd to turn this project around. We
have made clear to the new Chief Executive Mark Wilde that the
priority is building the rest of the railway safety -- safely at the lowest reasonable cost, even if this
takes longer.
We have started the year-long task of fundamentally resetting the project, including
commissioning infrastructure expert
James Stewart to lead a review into government -- governance and
oversight. As part of that Reset, we have reduced financial delegations to HS2 Ltd, placing a lid on the
spiralling costs until the Reset is
complete and we regain confidence.
We have cited the review as the
scale and cost of HS2 is an organisation. I can confirm we have published the landmark James Stewart review and the Department response.
The review commissioned in October
of last year by my predecessor was a tough independent look at how the Department for transport government
delivers major projects. The government not only welcomes the review but we have accepted all the
recommendations. My department is already delivering on these, specifically across five key areas.
First, the lack of oversight and scrutiny. Quite simply there have
been too many dark corners for
failure to hide in. The ministerial taskforce, set up to provide
oversight of HS2, had inconsistent attendance from key Ministers, including the then Transport Secretary and the then Chief
Secretary to the Treasury.
The
government has re-established the taskforce with full senior attendance as per the review's recommendations. A new performance program and shareholder boards will
offer much-needed oversight and accountability. Secondly, the report highlights HS2 could cost the
taxpayer millions more than planned.
We will stop for spiralling any further by delivering all the recommendations on cost control.
That starts with HS2 fundamentally changing their approach to estimating costs. It includes
certainty over funding, which the Spending Review has given. It also
means HS2, working with suppliers, so their contracts incentivise
saving costs for taxpayers.
As far as I am concerned, suppliers should make a better return than more
taxpayer money they save. Thirdly,
the review identified a deficit in capability and skills, with a fundamental lack of trust between my
department and HS2 Ltd. I am clear, both capability and cultural issues within HS2 must be addressed. The
new Chief Executive is already strengthening the organisation,
including billing critical gaps in areas such as commercial expertise.
-- Filling critical gaps. He will be
back by the announced today new chair.
This is a new era of leadership the project desperately needs, with Mike bringing
significant experience as a former
TfL Commissioner. Mark and Mike are part of the team with me that turned crossrail into the Elizabeth Line.
We have done it before and we will do it again. Fourthly, Euston
station. Between 2019 and 2023, HS2 Ltd provided initial designs for
Houston station -- Euston station. Coming in most £2 billion over
budget. When asked for a more affordable option, they offered one costing £400 million more than the
first attempt.
The word affordable was clearly not part of the HS2
lexicon. The combined cost for these two failed designs, which has now
been written off, was more than 1/4 of £1 billion. What's more, the previous government announced a Euston ministerial task.
Unbelievably the task was never met. This Government recognises Euston is huge potential and we have already
committed funding to start the tunnelling from Old Oak Common to Euston and will set out more details
in our 10 year infrastructure strategy. And finally, we will use James Stuart's findings to transform
infrastructure delivery across government.
Implementing real change
in how we deliver infrastructure is not just for the Department of Transport, this government is
committed to implementing these recommendations and adopting a new approach to delivering
infrastructure as will be set out in our upcoming 10 year infrastructure
strategy. In that spirit, the Prime Minister has also asked the Cabinet Secretary to consider the implications for the Civil Service
and wider public sector of the issues raised in the report,
including whether further action or
We are wasting no time in delivering on this review.
I will update
Parliament through our progress with my six monthly reports even if the information is uncomfortable. For a
government that last week pledged billions in capital investment for
new major projects, that believes in the power of transport infrastructure to improve lives and
deliver on our Plan for Change, this level of failure cannot stand. We will learn the lessons of the past
15 years. And restore our reputation of delivering world-class infrastructure projects. Mr Speaker,
I have spoken about the review.
Let
me finally turn to the initial assessment which lays bare the shocking mismanagement of the
project under previous governments. I will place a copy of the interim
findings in the library. He stated in no uncertain terms, the overall project with respect to cost,
schedule, and scope is unsustainable. Based on his advice,
I see no route by which trains can
be running by 2033 as planned. He reveals costs will continue to increase if not taken in hand,
further outstripping the budget set by the previous government.
And he cannot be certain that all cost
pressures have yet been identified. It gives me no pleasure to deliver news like this, billions of pounds
of taxpayers money has been wasted by constant scope changes, ineffective contracts, and bad management. There are also allegations that part of the supply
chain have been defrauding taxpayers. I have been clear these needs to be investigated rapidly and
rigorously. If fraud is proven, the consequences will be felt by all
involved. I have to be honest, it is
an appalling mess, but it is one that we will sort out.
We need to set targets that we can confidently
deliver, that the public can trust, and that will take time. Rest assured, where there are
inefficiencies, we will root them out. Where further ministry or interventions are needed, I will
make them without fear or favour. HS2 will finally start delivering on
our watch. Mr Speaker, years of mismanagement and neglect have turned HS2 into a shadow of that
vision forward 15 years ago. This
government was elected on a mandate to restore trust to our politics.
That is why we won't shirk away from this challenge, and why today we
turn the page for structure failures. I can think of no better
mission and delivering new economic opportunities, new homes and commercial regeneration of an
upscaled supply chain, all of which HS2 can still unlock. No one should
underestimate the scale of the reset required. Passengers and taxpayers deserve new railways, that the
country can be proud of. The work to get HS2 back on track is firmly
underway under this government, and I commend this statement to the house.
12:49
Gareth Bacon MP (Orpington, Conservative)
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Shadow Secretary of State.
for his statement today and for updating the House on the initial
findings of the HS2 review. I thank for advanced notice and copy of it. On the substance of her statement, I
believe there is broad consensus in this House today on the central point which is that mistakes were
made in the delivery of HS2. As the secretary of state has noted, costs more than doubled, the project has
been repeatedly delayed and the pandemic completely changed travel
plans changing the assumptions that guided the original plans, and construction costs have risen
sharply across the world as a result of the supply chain shortages as the world emerged from the crisis.
It
has long been apparent that HS2 was
not going according to plan. In my first two he is a member of this as I sat on the Public Accounts
Committee, then shared by the member for Hackney South and Shoreditch. In the summer of 2021, published report on HS2 raising serious concerns in a
number of areas with recommendations for how to improve the project. In 2023, previous government considered
that HS2 was not going to plan and made fundamental changes to it. As a
result, there is a cancellation of
the northern leg of HS2.
Under the Network North plan, £36 billion was to be diverted to a multitude of
transport projects that will benefit more people in more places more quickly than the then government believed HS2 could. We also
recognise that the path we took to reach that point was not perfect,
far from it. I will not today pretend that the Network North plan
was not the product of mistakes we made in the handling of HS2 exactly was. As a country, we must learn
from those mistakes and not repeat them.
It is on that note with your permission I would like to express
my gratitude to the chief executive officer of HS2 for the continued
efforts supporting the delivery of the project. Recognising his leadership in rescuing the crossrail
project in London, the then Secretary of State for transport
appointed him in May 2024. We are all encouraged to see him playing a leading role in overseeing the
completion of the project because his experience was invaluable in getting it back on track. I would
also like to welcome the new chairman of HS2 Ltd.
Like the
secretary of state and owe him from my years in London politics when he was Commissioner. He is a very
capable man I wish you well in his new role. Secretary of state has informed the house of her intention to accept 89 recommendations from
the independent review into HS2. I've not yet seen a copy of this
report which I believe is being released today. While we will need to study these proposals carefully
before confirming our support for them, I can assure her that if they offer better value for taxpayers we will back them.
Finally the
secretary of state has raised concerns that taxpayers may have been defrauded by subcontractors. I
would like to assure her that if that proves to be the case I will share her anger was supported of
action is necessary to get to the bottom of it. I would request you keep the House informed as the
investigations progress. In closing, I would like to press the Secretary
of State on a number of matters. In recent weeks, several projects have been announced by the government
that are either funded by Network North or aligned with its commitments.
However, we have yet to
see a clear government treatment to other fully support the Network North plan or to scale it back. Can
that secretary of state provide a definitive update on what will proceed on what will be abandoned? It has been reported that officials
are considering a plan backed by the Mayor of Greater Manchester to build
and upgrade and HS2 track between
Birmingham and Crewe. Would you confirm if that is true? I would like to conclude by turning to the planning system more generally.
The
whole House will recall that HS2 grappled with legal challenges, proceedings and judicial reviews,
all of which added to delay and cost. What assessment has the Secretary of State made the extent to which legal challenges and
judicial reviews are made? How can future infra structure projects be protected from excessive more
politically motivated litigation? And finally, does the secretary of state leave that sufficient action
has been taken to prevent some of the more spurious concerns about such things as bats obstructing
vital future infra structure projects? projects?
12:54
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I thank the honourable gentleman for his response, and indeed for the tone in which he made his comments.
I was pleased to hear him acknowledge that mistakes have been
made on HS2 by the previous government. I think you describe the path has not been perfect. I would
go as far as saying it has been a shambolic mess. He did strike a
sombre note in his remarks. I would
ask him perhaps to consider going further once he's had the opportunity to read the full James
Stewart report because I do think an
apology on the part of the party opposite for the mess that they left this infrastructure scheme in is undoubtedly warranted.
I also thank
him for the comments he made about
the action HS2 is taking with regard to the alleged fraud within the supply chain. I can assure him that
I will provide appropriate updates
to this House on the progress with the HMRC investigation is now underway. He also asked me to set
out our plans for investment in transport in the Midlands and the
North. His party of course took the decision to cancel HS2 north of
Birmingham.
They made wild promises about what they would do with the
money that they claimed they were saving. He is kidding himself if he
thinks that that money ever existed. What this government did last week in the Spending Review was set out
£15.6 billion of money to invest in
local transport schemes across the country. Be that in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds,
Newcastle. His approach was a
fantasy. He promised the moon on a stick and have absolutely no means to deliver stop he asks me to set
out the government's planned for enhancing rail connectivity further in the Midlands and the North.
I can
assure him that further announcement will be being made both as part of
the government 10 year National Infrastructure Strategy and beyond
that in the weeks and months ahead.
He also asks me to opine on the extent to which litigation has caused delays in the delivery of infra structure projects. He will
know that through this government's planning and infrastructure Bill we
are tackling this issue, limiting the number of judicial reviews and legal challenges that can be made.
Because, unlike his party, this government is serious about delivering the structure. We are
serious about providing the stable leadership that this country needs
when it comes to infrastructure. I looked up before coming to the chamber today the number of rail
ministers that existed in the Department under his government. It
was the sum total of 18 in 12 years. It is no wonder that objects like
this were left in such a state of disarray. Let me tell this House
that, just as this government has returned to stability to the nations economy, we will return commonsense
and stable leadership to the delivery of the nations infrastructure as well.
12:57
Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
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Chair of the select committee.
also like to add my thanks to the Secretary of State for the decisive action that she has taken on
addressing the causes of the cost overruns on HS2. We look forward to
having Mark Wilde and rail minister at our committee very shortly. I
actually want to celebrate something
that the HS2 leadership should be proud of, and that is the work they
have done in skills and workforce innovation. They have provided best
practice work across the
construction industry and transport projects, that they are learning
from.
Finally, could I urge the
Secretary of State to get her department to learn from countries
like France and Spain, that have managed to deliver extensive high-
speed rail projects to time and at a fraction of the cost of HS2 here in
the UK?
12:58
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I thank the chair of the Transport Committee for her
comments. She is right to recognise the excellent work that HS2 have
done on both skills and workforce. We have over 300,000 people working
on this project at the moment, and will be opening up opportunity, be
that in apprenticeships to the next generation, opening up opportunities through the supply chain. I think they have done good work on that. I
will heed her advice in learning from other countries about the speed
these with which they deliver infra structure projects.
12:59
Mr Paul Kohler MP (Wimbledon, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Mr Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for advanced sight of it. What
and for advanced sight of it. What we have heard today is clearly a damning indictment of the
damning indictment of the Conservative mismanagement, high- speed rail is meant to boost economic growth and spread
economic growth and spread opportunity. High-speed rail network
opportunity. High-speed rail network connecting London and Manchester and Leeds was clearly the right one. We ended up with years of delay and billions of pounds of taxpayers
billions of pounds of taxpayers money poured down the drain with no end in sight.
A litany of errors the secretary of state as outlined is truly shocking. It shows the
truly shocking. It shows the Conservatives were comatose at the
Conservatives were comatose at the wheel. And it has left us with a drastically reduced high-speed rail
drastically reduced high-speed rail at an inflated price. Shocking allegations of fraud by
subcontractors are emblematic of the Tory lack of oversight and disinterest in properly safeguarding the public interest of public money.
As we have already seen in the scandal of PPE and procurement
scandal of PPE and procurement string Covid.
Will the Minister ensure any money lost to fraud as Covaxin as possible? I asked the
Covaxin as possible? I asked the secretary of state three things. Can she guarantee that if any fraud has
taken place, any money lost will be returned to the government and her department as soon as possible? And please provided with necessary
resources to fully investigate the matter? The secretary of state has said the ministerial task force set
up to provide oversight on HS2, and inconsistent attendance from the then transport secretary and Chief
Secretary to the Treasury.
Does the secular state agree these right honourable members should apologise
for these damning lapses? Thirdly, we share the secretary of state
confidence in Mark Wilde and Mike Brown. Can she say when she expects
to be able to give the House next 's assessment of the costs of the scheme and HS2 are finally up and
scheme and HS2 are finally up and
13:01
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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The honourable gentlemen raises three very fair issues and agree with his assessment that the government were not Justice Eady the will, they were comatose at the
will. -- The previous government not just asleep at the wheel, they were
comatose at the wheel. I can assure
him no stone will be and turned in getting to the bottom of this
matter. He is also right to
highlight the question of poor and inconsistent attendance by previous individuals who held either my role or the rail minister's role and treasury roles.
I think it is
imperative that politicians who have oversight for these infrastructure schemes stay close to the detail of
what is happening, both through their own officials and directly
with the executive and non-executive
leadership of the project, that is sadly what I intend to do. I know the rail minister has a monthly meeting with the new chief
executive. We have already held a meeting with the ministerial task. There is another one due very soon. I have had multiple one-to-one conversations with the leadership
team at HS2.
He asks when I will be in a position to provide a full
update on costs and schedule. Mark
Wilde has told me that he will require until the end of this year to do that full piece of work. I am
not prepared to get ahead of that piece of work because I think that
is the way we have got into problems
previously. But he can rest assured that soon as I do have more information, in addition to the six monthly report that I will provide monthly report that I will provide to Parliament, I will come back to this House.
13:03
Graham Stringer MP (Blackley and Middleton South, Labour)
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This is the latest national scandal in our attempt to bring in
infrastructure schemes on budget and on time. But it is not only the
taxpayer who is a victim in the failure of this project so far, it
is also the people of the North of
England. This was originally a scheme that was intended to help the economies of the North West and
Yorkshire and those communities on
the way with HS2. So there is a complete failure there.
And what we are going to be left with is an
extension to the London Underground system. That is not going to help people in Leeds, Bradford, Manchester, Sheffield and elsewhere.
I would ask the Secretary of State to consider safeguarding the
original routes, so one we get our infrastructure plans in place we can
of.
13:04
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I would just say gently to my honourable friend that I think the mayor of the West Midlands might
have something to say about his great city being seen as the end of an extension to the London Underground line. I think it is
completely right that our two great
cities, Birmingham and London, are
connected with really high quality rail services. And whilst this is a difficult day in terms of exposing their state the project is in, I
have no doubt that in time this will be a railway that we can be proud of.
I would also say to him that I
am very aware of forecasting capacity constraints between
Birmingham and Manchester and in other parts of the country. We are of course investing through things
like the TransPennine route upgrade and improving connectivity to other great cities in the north of
England. We are determined to ensure that everyone, no matter where they
live in the country, has an excellent public transport system they can rely on.
13:05
Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)
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My constituency has been
devastated by roughly 26 miles of HS2. And I have consistently warned
in this House, over the last
Parliament and this, the lens of the frankly miserable experience on the ground in Buckinghamshire, of the
reasons why there will cost overruns and poor governance and everything else that the Secretary of State has
highlighted in her statement today. But if she must persist with this
frankly wrong project, on a new delay, will she give a commitment to my constituents and the rest of the county of Buckinghamshire how much
longer they will have to live in misery as part of the rebuilding site? And more importantly than
that, look urgently at unlocking some of the mitigation funds that frankly we are finding it incredibly hard to actually access and get
spent on the ground, as some small tiny comfort for that human misery
my constituents have to bear?
13:06
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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It is absolutely essential that
we proceed as quickly as possible
with the remaining civil engineering works that will have affected his constituents to date. If you wishes
to write to me with details of the problem that he has experience with accessing mitigation funds, I will
raise that for him with the Chief Executive of HS2. Executive of HS2.
13:06
Catherine Atkinson MP (Derby North, Labour)
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The Conservatives announced that they were scrapping the northern leg of HS2 in a former railway station will stop summing up the attitude to
will stop summing up the attitude to
the railway industry and sending shockwaves through the industry, including through Derby, rail city that will be building the HS2 trains. Will the Transport Secretary
ensure certainty and timeliness going forward, so the industry can
have confidence that we will not see the further delays which have already been so damaging for the
supply chain?
13:07
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I'm very grateful to my
honourable friend for that question. She is right that certainty is
critical for the rail supply chain. It will be a number of months before I'm in the position to confirm with
any certainty the schedule and estimated final cost. But as soon as the new chief executive has provided the information to me and my the information to me and my department, I will be updating the House.
13:07
Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
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The Secretary of State knows that HS2 runs through my constituency and
she will accept that what makes my constituents particularly angry
about what she has described, is that if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in the path of this railway, HS2 has pinched every penny
in compensating you and wasted
millions elsewhere. So can she as
short as that as part of the Reset, line drawing, page turning, however she describes it will happen now, she will look as part of that at how
people are compensated when they are affected by major infrastructure
projects such as this? And will she also accept it would be sensible to look at how Parliament can look
again at a project whose timescale has ballooned as this one has an
decide whether it still thinks it is worthwhile use of taxpayers money?
13:08
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I think the right honourable gentlemen is right to point out that
gentlemen is right to point out that
we do have some form as a country in seeking to golden play infrastructure projects and I know the last government talked about
this railway be the fastest and the best in the world and quite frankly, I would like this country to do
things well and to do things properly. I think the point he raises about compensation is one that any government should keep
under review whilst bearing in mind the need to provide value for money
to the taxpayer.
And I can assure
him that I will make sure that any future infrastructure projects that
I am overseeing when I'm in this role, I will make sure that the House is appropriately updated and
we proceed transparency on the costs and the benefits of the schemes in question.
13:09
Callum Anderson MP (Buckingham and Bletchley, Labour)
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I thank the Secretary of State for her statement. If I can. The
villages I represent in North Buckinghamshire... Communities I
know the honourable gentlemen from
Mid Buckinghamshire will be very familiar with, having to long faced
chaos and disruption... And news there will be yet more delay has caused them significant distress. Can she update the House and explain
what additional support, practical support financial or otherwise her department plans to give rural
communities like mine in the years ahead? ahead?
13:10
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I think the biggest reassurance that I can give to my honourable
friend is my cast-iron commitment to make sure that we proceed as rapidly as possible with completing the remaining construction works, which I know will have had an impact upon
his constituents. Whilst I cannot
commit to further compensation from the Dispatch Box today, if there are particular problems that his
constituents are experiencing, you should not hesitate to bring those to the attention to me and my department. department.
13:11
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP (North Cotswolds, Conservative)
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I welcome the Secretary of State's statement this afternoon. And I do not disagree with the word
of her announces of what has gone wrong in the past. The PAC, which I
have the honour to chair, has eight reports, comments and reports over the 13 years of this project. There
are some common themes throughout
those reports. Firstly that her department, I'm not in any way blaming her because this is what went on in the past, did not have
the right mix of skills to be able to challenge the assertions of HS2 Ltd, project managers, engineers
people who really know how to build a railway firstly.
Secondly we found
there was in a report published on 20 February, is considerable disagreement between imagine cost of this railway between HS2 and the
Department. The highest estimate was the top range of HS2, which was 66 billions in 2019 prices. That is
over 80 billion in today's prices. I think we do need to be assured fairly soon what this is going to cost. Thirdly, I'm not at all
surprised she has had to delay the data when it's railway will be
complete but this is their second Reset in five years.
We really want to see this Reset working and I think the people of this country
will be very keen to know in her half yearly report if possible, when this project is likely to be
completed.
13:12
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I'm grateful to the right honourable gentlemen for that contribution and would like to thank him and his colleagues on the Public
Accounts Committee for the work they have done over many years on this. He is right to highlight the need for skills within government to act
as a strong client to H as to and we also need to make sure we have the
right commercial element within HS2 as well. I know that is something
the chief executive is working on.
I must disappoint him though, I think
it is unlikely that in my next report to Parliament, which I think
is due before the summer recess, that I will be able to provide any concrete information on a new
schedule window and a new cost envelope. Because I think that work is going to take the chief executive towards the end of the year before
being in a position to make that information public.
13:13
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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My constituents know more than
most the daily misery of HS2 construction, particularly in two of the villages and a town and they
were welcome my right honourable friends statement today. I met with the new CEO Mark Wilde on Monday to discuss the Reset and I'm delighted
that he accepted my invitation to come to the spy club and talk to residents there. -- Sparred club.
Though she agree with me it is time that the dust settles on this
project? That we end the failure of oversight, the scandalous overspends
and the suggested fraud.
And the dust settles on the project, rather
than it settling on my constituents
washing, cars and the clean windows.
13:14
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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My honourable friend paints a graphic picture and I do understand
that when large infrastructure works are happening, then those who live closest to those schemes will often
face disruption in their daily
lives. So let me put on record my thanks to the residents in her areas for their patience with this project
and agree wholeheartedly with her that we do need to once and for all
put an end to this cycle of
overspends, delays and waste.
And get on and build a railway that is fit for the 21st-century.
13:14
Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
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The disastrous decision by the previous Conservative government to
stop works at Euston station dented investor and commuter confidence in our railways and major in the structure delivery. Their failure to keep costs under control and manage
the basics of the project, simple things such as turning up to meetings, has created the quagmire
that HS2 find itself in today and I do not envy the task of the
Minister. I'm glad to hear the government sees the huge potential of a comprehensive redevelopment of Euston station.
But can the Minister
reassure me will not end up with a cut-price station that does not realise the potential of the project? project?
13:15
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I will provide assurance to him. This is a once in a generation
opportunity to not only recompile
the existing Euston station, which will frustrate many colleagues in
this House at times and their constituents I'm sure but also to provide the new HS2 station there and to unlock land around that
station, both for the delivery of new homes but there is a massive
commercial regeneration opportunity in the heart of London as well. It is a really exciting opportunity and
one we will be saying more about in one we will be saying more about in
13:16
Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)
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Delays in HS2 have blighted parts
of west London around the main site
at Old Oak Common. There will be a major interchange with Elizabeth line. Can the secretary of state
look at opening the Elizabeth line
station at their sooner it is feasible and not waiting for HS2 to begin operations? Can she reclaim to goodwill from people in West London
directing a tiny fraction of the cost of HS2 to the repair of Hammersmith Bridge?
13:16
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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With regard to his question about
a possible earlier opening of an
Elizabeth line station at Old Oak Common in advance of the HS2
station, I will certainly speak with my colleague that rail minister in the other place, and explore the
opportunities might be. If I may write back to him on that subject. He may also have heard in the
spending review last week the Chancellor announced that we are
opening and funding a structures found to enable local authorities
who have assets which are very to repair, to bid to government for
help in repairing dilapidated
bridges, tunnels etc.
And so I will be saying more about how that fund will operate in due course. As we
have done for many years, I'm sure we will be talking about Hammersmith Bridge again.
13:17
Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson MP (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge, Conservative)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
Can I thank the Secretary of State for the clarity of his statement.
Vast swathes of Staffordshire are currently owned by HS2. One third of
the village is under HS2 ownership. This has an enormous impact on
farmers, people who live along the route where there are so many empty houses. Can the Secretary of State
give my constituents the reassurance that that farmland and those houses
will be returned back to farmers and
people who want to actually live in those communities? those communities?
13:18
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I will be saying more on the safeguarded land and the directions
applied to the safeguarded land in due course. due course.
13:18
Martin Wrigley MP (Newton Abbot, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Secretary of State for the
actions she has taken today. Clearly they are necessary and it is that we are on a better track. However HS2
provides little or nothing to rail users in the south-west. Other than
the ongoing delays during the construction and operation of Old
Oak Common. Will the Secretary of State consider funding or prioritising funding for the
critical final phase of the rail
resilience work which will help businesses and rail users in Devon and Cornwall? and Cornwall?
13:19
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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He tempts me into talking about
this scheme. I must admit this is a topic that I will need to take up
the rail minister and I would be happy to provide a response in writing to him on the merits of that particular scheme.
13:19
Dr Rupa Huq MP (Ealing Central and Acton, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
I'm grateful to my right honourable friend for her honesty setting out
the latest reset necessitated by the mess the Tories left. As MP for Old
Oak Common, I found there were eight separate associations across two boroughs were banded together to
create the Old oak Alliance to fight for compensation and mitigation as
it is. Then it will be bitterly disappointed that this is more prolonged disruption now. I wonder
if she might meet with me or better still, come on a site visit to meet them and see what they are putting
up with.
We are dealing with a company here whose idea of engagement is jam tomorrow and death by PowerPoint.
13:20
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I am sure the leadership of HS2
would be very concerned to hear of that description of the way that the
project is engaging with local people. It is not what I expect of
an infrastructure company and I'm sure it is not what the chief executive of HS2 Ltd want either. I would be very happy to meet my
honourable Friend.
13:20
Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
The previous government cancelled
phase 2 of HS2. From what the Minister said today, I understood it to be that it remains cancelled and phase 2 of HS2 won't be reinstated.
That being the case, Can the minister let me know when the land
that is now being safeguarded by HS2 particularly in the Mid Cheshire
section will be lifted?
13:21
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I am afraid I can't give the
honourable lady a date today. I can assure her that this is an issue
that I am fully cognisant of. What
we need to look at is whether there is any requirement in the future for any future schemes, and as soon as
we are in a position to provide updates, I will come back to this House and be sure to provide honourable members with relevant
information.
13:21
Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)
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The HS2 line runs down the west
side of Aylesbury and it will bring
no benefits to Aylesbury at all. Yet my residence has suffered years of noise disruption, flooding, loss of
access to the countryside and destruction of their natural environment as result of its
construction. I'm pleased the government is getting a grip on this and I commend the Secretary of State for honesty and focus on this today.
And understandably my constituents will be concerned at the news of further delays and disruption.
Can the secretary of state confirmed
that she would do anything in a power to hold HS2 and contractors to
account to minimise the ongoing disruption for my long-suffering residents? residents?
13:22
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I can assure my honour friend that we are determined to see the
main works civil engineering contracts completed as soon as
possible. This of course is the element of construction that does
generally create most disturbance to local communities. We are pretty
much at peak construction lag. I would like to thank her constituents for their patients whilst we
continue to deliver this vital increase of rail infrastructure.
13:22
Nigel Farage MP (Clacton, Reform UK)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I have campaigned against this HS2
project ever since 2010, up and down the line. I never believed the original £35 billion pricetag. It
only would have benefited rich
businessmen and driven businesses from the North of England to London. It would have had the opposite effect. Has the moment not come,
rather than having another reset, to recognise this is a failure? Let's
scrap HS2, let's use the tens of billions of pounds we can save in
the next decade to upgrade railway lines across the entirety of the United Kingdom, to the benefit of
many millions, and spend the rest on
other national priorities in these financially straitened times.
Surely the time has come to scrap the
entirety of the project and recognise we've got it wrong?
13:23
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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Madam Deputy Speaker, we are not
going to be a country that spends over £30 billion on rail infrastructure but then never sees a
train running on it. We have already seen too much waste, I'm interested
that is advocating more. We also have significant capacity constraints between Birmingham and London. He seems not to want to do
anything about that but I think those two great cities in our
country deserve a railway that is fit for the 21st-century. I am sorry that he does not.
13:24
Dave Robertson MP (Lichfield, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituency the only one in the
country which has HS2 phase I, phase
2A and 2B in it. When he so it will
not continue north of Birmingham, that is not true because it will cut through my constituency. The failings of HS2 Ltd have been
cleared to my constituents for years. Hearing today what we have always expected the dereliction of oversight from previous governments
is quite frankly shocking. People across Lichfield and villages will
be furious.
They are quite right to be so. Farmers and landowners and businesses in my constituency have
been fighting tooth and nail with HS2 for years to get them to do the
job right, whether it is compulsory purchases that have never been paid, temp repossessions that come with a
multitude of back-and-forth and land agents taking massive fees over
things that should have been sorted years ago. Payments that never come
and many many more. The people have had to deal with ongoing roadworks around the junction which has become
far too complicated by trying to put a railway underneath it.
The village at times has always been cut off.
People are absolutely sick of HS2. The failings of that organisation a
multitude, and the failings of the party opposite to hold it to account should be an embarrassment for them
and an embarrassment for the country. I do welcome the reset but it has got to lead to meaningful
change. Can she give me and my constituents any assurances that this will be delivered as quickly as
possible with as little disruption as we can get away with, because she finally give us a timeline on when
the safeguarding land will be returned to landowners? Does the going on for far to long.
going on for far to long.
13:26
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I share my honourable friend's anger about this issue. He is a
powerful advocate for his constituency and the disruption that they have endured. I agree entirely
with him that it is a dereliction of duty on the part of the previous government, the way that this
project was handled. It is why we have appointed new leadership. It is
why we are accepting all the recommendations of the James Stewart review, and why we are going through
this fundamental reset.
As soon I have received advice from the new chief executive about the revised
cost and schedule, I will be updating him along with other
honourable members of the House.
13:26
Rt Hon Dr Andrew Murrison MP (South West Wiltshire, Conservative)
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As a Southwest region MP, would
the Minister agree with me that the West Country has, for decades, been
the poor country cousin of our rail
network? Agree also that money spent on HS2 is money not spent elsewhere,
and do all in her power to ensure that the relatively small changes
that are necessary on the network in the south-west to make life a lot
easier should go ahead and in particular look at the absolutely
woeful west of line?
13:27
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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Madam Deputy Speaker, I think
there are challenges across the rail network. I would readily accept that improvements are needed in many
different parts of the country. I would not necessarily accept that
the south-west is the poor cousin of the rail network but I can assure him of my determination to make sure
that everyone no matter where they live in this country has a better rail service at the end of this Parliament they did at the
beginning.
13:27
Jacob Collier MP (Burton and Uttoxeter, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. The Transport Secretary will know
that my constituents have ensured years of disruption and drawnout and poorly managed roadworks as they
drive past Lichfield on the 838. Given the billions of pounds that
have been sponsored by the last government and as disruption continues, can she say more about
how she is going to get a grip on this project to ensure that we have vigorous oversight and it is
delivered effectively and on time for our constituents? for our constituents?
13:28
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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We have appointed new leadership. We are establishing new governance,
we are looking at the incentives contained in the contracts on the
civil engineering works. We will
make sure that there is no stone left unturned in providing value for
money for the taxpayer on this. Because it is a very significant investment that this country is
making. And we do need to ensure
that every penny is wisely spent.
13:29
Rt Hon Liz Saville Roberts MP (Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Plaid Cymru)
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The costs of HS2 have now spiralled over £100 billion. Welsh
taxpayers are paying dearly for this appalling mess even though we get no
benefits whatsoever. Wales has now
owed at least £5 billion. This is not going to go away. When will we get our fair share?
13:29
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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The honourable lady may have heard that the Chancellor announced
in the spending review over £400 million of investment over 10 years in the Welsh Railways. It will
enable work to take place on the
stations, in south Wales, and pay
for signings of the North West Wales line was this is a significant investment in Welsh Railways, the
like of which has not been seen for many years.
13:29
Andy McDonald MP (Middlesbrough and Thornaby East, Labour)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
As shadow transport secretary for four years, I was wholly supportive
of this concept. I want to correct the member for Clacton who misunderstands the purpose of it.
The purpose was to deliver capacity for the North of England. Speed was
a misnomer. That opportunity has now been lost. I wonder if she could
give me some assurance that the upgrades to the TransPennine upgrade, that the skills and
expertise will be rolled out across the entire North, not just North West Yorkshire, but through the
north-east, to include the continuing electrification and I'm thinking of the Northallerton
through to Hillsborough and beyond.
That is where we get the economic growth from. We have some assurance
that those ambitions will not be affected by this damning indictment
affected by this damning indictment
13:31
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I can assure my honourable friend that the government will represent
recognises the need to connect rail connectivity in the Midlands. He is
right to highlight the need for a
pipeline of investment so that the supply chain can be planned. We have
got an ambitious ambition on rail and I am determined that we build on
the proud real way heritage of the
country. -- Real -- railway. country. -- Real -- railway.
13:31
Steve Darling MP (Torbay, Liberal Democrat)
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Devon and Cornwall rail network
are one storm away from being decapitated. Fees five of the
Southwest Rail Resilience Network is desperately do. When will the
Minister come to see just how desperately needed it is? desperately needed it is?
13:32
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I know that donnish is a beautiful part of the country and
I'm tempted to take him up on that invitation. This is the second time
it has been raised. I undertook to
speak to the Rail Minister about speak to the Rail Minister about that. I will get back to him at the same time as his colleague.
13:32
Nick Smith MP (Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, Labour)
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I thank the Secretary of State for the statement. HS2 has been an
for the statement. HS2 has been an
abject failure of political accountability by the last administration. On transport efficiencies, can I ask the Secretary of State to press on with
reforms to the Driving Vehicle
Standards Agency and fix the driving situation in our country. situation in our country.
13:33
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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We have a really important
program of work across all of the bodies at arms length of the Department for transport including the DV essay. It's important to
provide public services in an efficient and effective way. --
DVSA. I'm conscious of his
constituents and those of other honourable members who may be keen
to see rapid progress on driving test waiting times and that is a focus of the discussions I am having
focus of the discussions I am having with the DVSA at present.
with the DVSA at present.
13:33
Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
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I also served on the PAC, so I
welcome the statement today. I know HS2 is by far the largest civil infrastructure program in the UK but
the second largest is the Lower Thames Crossing to Greece and which
is currently budgeted at around £10
billion. If this approach to HS2 produces savings, is there any way
some of those might help pay for the
Lower Thames Crossing and, if not, which private sector companies are going to pay for it? So far, the
government has been rather vague on that point.
that point.
13:34
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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We are exploring finance options with regard to the crossing and we
announced on Monday of this week that £590 million of public funding
this year will take forward the utility work and some land
purchases. I will be saying more to this House in the future about the private finance arrangements that we are exploring.
13:34
Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)
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I commend my honourable friend on
the swift action she has taken to try to put right this disastrous
situation created by the previous government. The parallels between the fast track contracts for PPE
cannot be ignored and I understand
that the contracts were assigned which had appropriate decisions not
made prior to them being signed. Will be people who signed the
contracts have to explain why they have decided to take these decisions against advice and will be be
getting any of that money back?
13:35
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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As I said in my statement, the
Prime Minister has asked the Cabinet
Secretary to investigate whether the James Stewart Report raises
questions for the civil service or wider public sector. He is right to highlight the point about contracts
being signed with construction companies, even before the scope of the work had been concluded. It is
little wonder that we as a country have ended up paying more when we have signed the contract with a
company to deliver works and there is no clarity whatsoever about what
the work was that the government wanted them to do.
And so, this is a
dreadful and woeful failing of oversight on the part of previous
government ministers.
13:36
Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)
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I was a member of the independent panel for the committee and
environment at HS2 and the Secretary
of State's statement today makes for shocking reading. Talk of fraud and
shambolic mismanagement should bring shame on everybody involved in it.
One problem is the name of it, focusing on speed rather than
capacity and my constituents used the West Coast Mainline and the
Secretary of State has said she is not overstating the line north of Birmingham and is talked about the transparent work that is underway.
What specific work is being
undertaken by her department? undertaken by her department?
13:37
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I am aware that the mayors of the
West Midlands have made proposals
about this issue and in the mid- 2030s, we are likely to see severe capacity constraints between
Birmingham and Manchester and they are reviewing the proposals and I hope to be able to say more on that in months ahead. in months ahead.
13:37
Matt Rodda MP (Reading Central, Labour)
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I thank the Secretary of State for the honesty with which she has
addressed the issues and they also
ask her to see more about the lessons that can be learned from the success of the Elizabeth Lane in terms of the benefits and also the
economic benefits and the money of £80 million invested in capital,
yielding £42 million of benefit in the first amazing use of this infrastructure. infrastructure.
13:38
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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-- Years.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I must admit the delivery of the Elizabeth Lane, while it was one of
Elizabeth Lane, while it was one of my proudest achievements, it was not
my proudest achievements, it was not without challenges as well. I would reflect that the trust that existed
reflect that the trust that existed ultimately between Transport for London and the delivery project and
London and the delivery project and the transparency and honesty with which different parts of the system worked with one another is one of
the ways in which we got that project over the line and it was one of the proudest days for me to see
of the proudest days for me to see Queen Elizabeth, the former Queen, open the Queen Elizabeth Lane shortly before she passed away.
--
13:39
Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)
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shortly before she passed away. -- Line. We are determined to get on
and see this railway open.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
East-West Rail will travel through my constituency. It is the
through my constituency. It is the historic light rail line. Will she talk about the mistakes with HS2.
talk about the mistakes with HS2. There is little confidence in the
company and it's important that my communities are listened to and we must deliver this infrastructure
13:39
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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must deliver this infrastructure faster and at a lower cost and the people who are impacted must be properly compensated.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The nature of East-West Rail is fundamentally different to the construction of HS2. It's being delivered in three phases and only
the latter phase will actually necessitate the construction of the
new track and I know the chief executive is determined to deliver
executive is determined to deliver that scheme rapidly and give value for money to the taxpayer and making
for money to the taxpayer and making sure he engages with communities and if there are any issues, he should
13:40
Mr Luke Charters MP (York Outer, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
if there are any issues, he should raise those with me and I will gladly speak with the readership. On public accounts committee, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
On public accounts committee, I
asked HS2 boss is a relatively simple question, I thought. How much are they spending on the new litigation. They could not give an
answer. I can confirm that I have
information that this is well north of the reported £100 million in
costs. Can I commend the secretary
of state for the leadership that she has shown and will she hold HS2 accountable for some of these crazy costs?
13:41
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I can assure my honourable friend
that the estimated cost of the bat
structure is £95 million in 2019 prices. I agree with him that we
cannot have a regime of environmental mitigations where this
sort of thing continues to happen. The government has put forward significant reforms in this space
and we will continue to have further changes so we can deliver
infrastructure. infrastructure.
13:41
Ayoub Khan MP (Birmingham Perry Barr, Independent)
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Can I welcome and thank the Secretary of State for the candid and transparent statement to the
House? In relation to Birmingham, I'm surprised, it will be disappointing that there will be
delay and additional costs and there is always a silver lining. My
constituency has some of the highest unemployment was 17%, four times the
national average and, in addition, a number of closures and if the
network is reopened, will the Secretary of State meet to discuss
Secretary of State meet to discuss
this and looking at the city campus? this and looking at the city campus?
13:42
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I would be very happy to ask the rail minister to meet with them
about those stations in Birmingham that he raises. that he raises.
13:42
Peter Prinsley MP (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket, Labour)
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I welcome the statement from the
secretary of. May I speak of the EastLink. The Member for Richmond
famously offered a dividend when he
cancelled HS2 North. How is this replacing the issues with the rail
connections in the East of England? connections in the East of England?
13:43
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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I understand the importance of the scheme in terms of
the scheme in terms of
infrastructure in Ely and I want to say more about the investments in the weeks before the summer recess. the weeks before the summer recess.
13:43
Joe Robertson MP (Isle of Wight East, Conservative)
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Could be Secretary of State set
out what steps she is taking to ensure that infrastructure like the £100 million back panel will not be
-- bat panel. That that will not be -- bat panel. That that will not be included in future projects.
13:43
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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The Planning And Infrastructure Bill includes proposals to reform habitat protection and the proposals for environmental delivery plans do
enable a shift to protect the whole
population of species rather than a purely local consideration. This will provide for better outcomes for
nature without incurring unreasonable costs like the HS2 mitigation structure. mitigation structure.
13:44
Tom Morrison MP (Cheadle, Liberal Democrat)
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I thank the Secretary of State for her answer to the Member for
Hazel Grove regarding capacity on
the mainline and Stockport is one place where it is at full capacity and the HS2 was meant to solve this
but because of the cancellation of the northern leg, there are two trains going through the already
packed lanes of Stockport. I welcome
the response from the mayors of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester
but can be secretary of state meet with counsel on the plans because we must find an issue on capacity
because it has helped my borough back for the kids.
So there I am
back for the kids. So there I am very conscious of the need to invest and improve public transport and if
and improve public transport and if the council would like to write to me with any relevant information, I will gladly consider it. I would
will gladly consider it. I would also point out to him the good news that the announcement a couple of
weeks ago about the investment in transport. What with the extension
transport. What with the extension of the Metro build and I hope he would welcome that as good news for his constituents.
his constituents.
13:45
Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)
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It may surprise him but I feel sympathy for the Secretary of State for inheriting this nightmare with
HS2. When she receives the updated and, if the cost and the timeline at
which point she says that enough is enough and it is better to stop or
13:45
Rt Hon Heidi Alexander MP, The Secretary of State for Transport (Swindon South, Labour)
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If he read the Spending Review he would have seen we have committed 25
billion over the next four years. It enables work to be taken forward and
I will be as I have said a number of occasions updating the House when I have more information available
about both the overall cost and estimated final cost at completion
With a decade of delay and cost
With a decade of delay and cost spiralling to eye watering sums of anywhere between 60 and £100 million and now credible allegations of fraud in the supply chain, can I ask what steps the government will take
what steps the government will take to recover hard-working taxpayer money from fraud, hold those responsible to account, and announce
responsible to account, and announce a final stop of waste of money?
I have said on a number of occasions billions of pounds of
taxpayer money has been wasted by constant step changes, ineffective contracts and bad management.
That
is what this research is all about.
It is why we appointed the new leadership and why we are fundamentally changing the governing
structures. As I have said in answer to previous questions, the matter about potential fraud is being
investigated by HMRC. We will update the House as and when further
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information is available. That concludes the statement. Point of order.
13:47
Points of Order
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Point of order. Thank you. I wish to raise again
13:47
Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Independent)
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Thank you. I wish to raise again the case of a British Egyptian
citizen, still imprisoned in Egypt.
His mother has been on hunger strike for a large period of time now at Saint Thomas's Hospital. Her health
is deteriorating. I wonder if we can
ask the Treasury bench to take a message back to the Prime Minister.
We need to do everything we can to secure a release. I fear that we may
well lose the life of his mother.
One initiative that could be tried
again is a joint approach by our Prime Minister with President Macron
to the Egyptian president, to urge
for the release. I think we are in a dangerous moment. The government has
undertaken a number of actions. The Prime Minister committed to doing all in his power and he has
approached the Egyptian president. But I feel we need to make at least another last attempt to secure the
mother.
13:48
Judith Cummins MP (Bradford South, Labour)
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I thank the honourable member for his point of order and notice of it. He has put his point on record. I am
sure his concerns will have been
heard. Presentation of bill. Secretary Liz Kendall.
13:49
Presentation of bills
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Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill.
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Tomorrow.
13:49
Ten Minute Rule Motion: Right to Manage and Leasehold
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Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Rachel Blake.
13:49
Rachel Blake MP (Cities of London and Westminster, Labour )
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision about the definition of qualifying tenants for the purposes of claiming
tenants for the purposes of claiming
a right to manage. To reduce the proportion of qualified tenants
proportion of qualified tenants required, to give notice of a claim to acquire a right to manage, establish a duty of freeholders to assist a Right to Manage company and establishing contact with
leaseholders within the freehold property to make provision about establishing a presumption in favour
of a Right to Manage in certain circumstances before the First Tier
circumstances before the First Tier Tribunal.
Requiring the Secretary of State to review procedures for converting leasehold property into these types of properties and
these types of properties and connected purposes. I stand in this chamber today to speak on a topic which matters dearly to all of us in this house. Accountability and
this house. Accountability and representation. As legislators, our job is to hold legislation to
job is to hold legislation to account and make sure it represents
account and make sure it represents our constituents and it is the role of our constituents in turn to hold us to account whenever elections
us to account whenever elections arise.
At this moment I thank my constituents for joining us today to
listen. Accountability is at the
heart of our consumer relationships. With standards and competition embedded into commercial law. It is a key part of our social contract
when someone in a position of power does wrong. There needs to be a
system of records. When it comes to housing however, this too often goes
out the window. Frequently there exists a stark gap between those who provide housing and those who live
provide housing and those who live
in it.
Alongside an accountability deficit. Whether in private rented, social housing, or in a sector this bill seeks to remedy today,
leasehold. My constituency has the
highest proportion of leaseholders in the country. Apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker. They have had to
endure a system leaving them without full control over their homes and at the mercy of a wide range of bad
actors. I was proud to be elected on
a manifesto that promised to ban the sale of new leasehold properties and to make commonholds the default
tenure across the country.
Since the election, the government has acted
with speed in this area, inheriting a rushed piece of legislation from
their predecessors and now handling it with speed, setting out plans for reform. Publishing a white paper on commonhold and expediting moves such
as the recent reforms in other areas. They have already had a
positive impact in London and Westminster. Constituents have written and said they submitted Right to Manage applications on
March 3 this year as the changes
allow them to do so.
I joined them in thanking this government for
acting quickly in this area. I look forward with interest to the publication of the leasehold and commonhold reform bill later this
year. One of the most visible consequences of the leasehold system is the scourge of unscrupulous
managing agents. For the last six
months, I have been coordinating action, alongside the honourable member for Hendon, as the co-chairs of the Labour for leaseholders
group. An alliance of 150 Labour Party colleagues against some of the worst performing actors in the
sector.
Many of the members
supporting the bill today have been tirelessly advocating in this campaign for leaseholders in their constituencies and nationwide and I
pay tribute to this work. We have heard stories of residents suffering
at the hands of managing agents as they failed to conduct essential maintenance. Engaging in threatening, abusive behaviour
towards residents. Even running off with hundreds of thousands of pounds of leasehold money. All while providing little justification for
their service. Often with high fees charged. I have also in this process met the most dedicated leaseholders,
organisers collecting testimony from thousands of neighbours highlighting poor practice.
Accountants volunteering their time to
scrutinise invoices and auditing and lawyers who have provided free advice to other buildings going
through the First Tier Tribunal. But
without a legal system that supports them, these leaseholders remain unable to seek the accountability they deserve from a distant,
disinterested managing agent. These include my constituents in Neville
House. Shared ownership pay £5000 for service charges for services not delivered for 20 years. Reports of mould ignored for months. Being
stuck between the social landlord, managing agent and freeholder in a
complex cladding case.
They include the residents of Sheldon Square where managing agents have ignored the leaking of sewage into their flat. They have been billed for damage caused to their building and
received threatening letters post to individual leaseholders in frequent
reach of data protection. The residents of Oxford and Cambridge mansions have had their managing agent and freeholder ignore respond
-- report of gross misconduct,
failing to take action against leaks persisting for years and ignoring reports of damp and mould emerging from flat which they owned and were
using as storage rooms all the while
complex major works loom with an opaque process which may cost residents millions.
Ultimately this
situation amounts to 1 of
accountability and representation. In most cases, the managing agent does not feel a need to represent the interests of leaseholders and the only accountability they have is
to the building freeholder who too often take little interest in the welfare of residents. But there are
ways out. One is acquiring the Right
to Manage. This involves forming a Right to Manage association.
Recruiting half of the flats in the block to join and submitting an application to the landlord.
Who can accept all drag leaseholders through
a tribunal. However, there are
multiple loopholes and hurdles obstructing leaseholders from achieving even this basic step.
Properties cannot have more than 30% of square footage of commercial space and sometimes even flowerbeds
and communal car parks are included. Even when large numbers of residents are in favour of getting the right
to manage and nobody opposes, hitting the 50% threshold can be
difficult. It is due to a number of reasons from owners who do not live in the properties, freeholders who
retain a large number of flats in the building, and letting out privately, and as mentioned, as
storage rooms stop this goes some way towards rectifying it.
It would lower the threshold required for a successful Right to Manage application from 50% of qualifying
leaseholders down to 35. As many campaigners pointed out, this alone is not enough. That is why the motion redefines who is defined as a
qualifying tenant during an application. To those who respond positively or negatively when
tenants are asked to vote. Put simply it changes the threshold from a Right to Manage claim from can you get the majority of owners in your building to do enough of the actual
leaseholders in your block want this
to go ahead? Most notably it establishes a duty for freeholders
to assist the Right to Manage company when it contacts fellow leaseholders.
Establishing a presumption in favour of leaseholders on occasions when
freeholders counterclaim at the
First Tier Tribunal. This motion doesn't go all the way to fixing the Right to Manage. There are a number
of obstacles remaining. Particularly in mixed use developments. There are no quick fixes in the Right to
Manage, commonhold or any other reform. Managing blocks of flats will always remain challenging and will lead to difficult debates
within buildings as to how to manage complex and expensive work. But what matters is the companies who manage
these buildings are accountable.
And represent fairly the people living
in the buildings. And reinvigorating the Right to Manage means we can do
it. Leaseholders across the country are ready to take this step in holding their managing agents to account. All they need is for the
account. All they need is for the
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law to be on their side. The question is the honourable member have leave to bring in the bill. As many as are of the opinion
bill. As many as are of the opinion say aye. To the contrary, no. The
say aye. To the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the bill?
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I will. Can you read the names of the sponsors? Lizzi Collinge, Doctor Beccy
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Lizzi Collinge, Doctor Beccy Cooper, Deirdre Costigan, Emily Darlington, Marsha de Cordova, Anna
Darlington, Marsha de Cordova, Anna Dixon, Amanda hat, Jayne Kirkham,
Uma Kumaran, Sarah Russell.
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Right Right to Right to Manage Right to Manage fleeceholder bill. Second Reading, what day?
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July 4.
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July 4. July 4. The clerk will proceed to read the orders of the day. Crime and Policing Bill as unaided in the committee to be
further considered. Now.
13:59
Legislation: Crime and Policing Bill (Day Two): Remaining Stages
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further considered. Now. We will begin with clause two with which it will be convenient to
with which it will be convenient to consider other amendments as listed
on the paper.
14:00
Tonia Antoniazzi MP (Gower, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was proud to have stood on a pledge to halve violence against
women and girls in a decade. I know colleagues on the frontbench take this seriously. There are
significant measures in this bill on intimate image abuse, stalking, spiking and sexual exploitation and
I know this is only the beginning of a mission to tackle these shameful
a mission to tackle these shameful
There is a national enquiry rightly getting underway on this subject and
we must confront adult sexual exploitation being perpetrated on an industrial scale by websites and men
who pay for sex, both of whom currently enjoy near total legal
impunity.
Those against the
commercial sexual exploitation -- those laws against commercial cyclic
particular paddles are dated. They are failing women overwhelmingly.
Websites for pimping function as
massive online brothels and operate freely and supercharge sex trafficking by making it easier and
quicker for exploiters to advertise the. These online mega brothels make
millions of pounds and advertise thousands of vulnerable women from across the world for prostitution in
the UK. Our legislation allows this. Men who pay for sex are often left
out of the conversation on prostitution and sex trafficking but
are they beating heart of the trade.
The demand and money drives sex
trafficking trade and there is
little done to deter them. Let's start the process by making it crystal clear that as a parliament it is not possible to bisexual
consent. Giving someone money,
accommodation, goods, services in exchange for sex acts is sexual exploitation and abuse and is never acceptable and we need to change that.
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I thank the honourable lady for
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I thank the honourable lady for giving way and commend her for bringing this forward. The honourable lady is well aware that in Northern Ireland, through the
in Northern Ireland, through the
in Northern Ireland, through the Assembly and Lord Morrow, brought in legislation for that to happen. High is the honourable lady had the
is the honourable lady had the opportunity to look at the change put through in Stormont? I think
put through in Stormont? I think what she has put forward is even better than what we put forward to Stormont and the Assembly.
Does she
Stormont and the Assembly. Does she feel that women will be protected from sex exploitation, as she has
from sex exploitation, as she has said that she would like to see? There I thank him for his
There I thank him for his contribution. He is right to say there is excellent good practice in
there is excellent good practice in Northern Ireland and this is something the Select Committee is looking at at the moment and they
looking at at the moment and they might be interested in that as well.
We currently have...
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We currently have... Why should we implement this
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Why should we implement this model on sex work when the evidence
for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland shows that there is increased violence?
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It's obvious the honourable
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It's obvious the honourable member and myself do not look at it through the same lens. Prostitution
through the same lens. Prostitution and not sex work. I think we have got to see more examples of that
got to see more examples of that actually being used. What we currently have is a situation where
currently have is a situation where people paying for sex enjoy near total impunity and the vulnerable
total impunity and the vulnerable women that the exploit will face sanctions if they solicit on the
sanctions if they solicit on the street.
Fines handed out to women in a self-defeating effort to stop them soliciting on the street, ignoring the question of where they are most
the question of where they are most likely to earn the money to pay the
likely to earn the money to pay the fine and the sanctioning of victims is counter-productive in ending this ruthless trade. That is why I have
ruthless trade. That is why I have
tabled my amendments, NC2, 3 and 4.
tabled my amendments, NC2, 3 and 4.
And sex trafficking. Three and four together would shift the burden of criminality of the victims of
exploitation and onto perpetrators. NC3 Would make it a criminal offence to pay for sex, sending a clear message this is not an acceptable way to treat women and men would
way to treat women and men would
face prosecution. We know from research that this would be an effective deterrent. Over 50% of 1200 sex buyers question in one
study said that they would definitely, possibly change
behaviour if a law was introduced to make it a crime to pay for sex.
And repealing sanctions against victims of sexual exploitation, soliciting
on the street, NC4 would help victims and help them rebuild their
lives. It is also necessary to end the stigmatisation that these women continue to experience. That is why I have tabled amendments of 19 to
introduce a mechanism for that. The
home affairs Select Committee has recommended the Home Office should change existing legislation so that
soliciting is no longer an offence and legislate for previous
convictions and cautions for prostitution from the record of sex workers by amending the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.
For
most women, the record of convictions is a record of
exploitation and abuse and 11th year of having to disclose this history
when applying for jobs or volunteering. Decriminalising the
offences and 11 for the expunging of historical convictions will allow them to finally be free of the record of abuse at the stigma that
they have endured for decades. My amendments would usher in the legal
framework that recognises prostitution is violence against women and the only way to end this violence is the terror the
perpetrators and profiteers.
I am delighted that over 50 honourable
members have signed the amendments and I would like to thank in
particular the members of the Committee on Sexual Exploitation which I chair. They are informed and
supportive for survivors and many frontline services. Unsurprisingly,
some of my proposals are created by
pimping websites, one of which emailed allies, urging them to mobilise against my amendments. A recent investigation from Sky News found over 50% of the 14,000
prostitution adverts on Aviva Street
had a full number.
-- Viva. This is
a red flag for exploitation. These
My proposals. I want to address a myth promoted by the defenders of the website that is that shutting
down the sex will make the difference to the skill of sexual exploitation taking place and simply
drive it to the dark web and make it harder to identify. This is patently nonsense, lacking logic and evidence. The dark web carries major
disadvantage for traffickers and sex buyers and would require a
significant technical expertise to post as well as locate and access prostitution adverts and thereby it was substantially restrict the pool
of exploiters able to engage in the
crime.
There is no evidence that the shift is taking place in jurisdictions that have allowed pimping websites. The reality is
that right now we simply cannot keep up with the scale of sexual exploitation taking place on the
open web. Another myth I want to
address was visible in the written submissions which were submitted to the committee. Every single one of
the organisations who argue the website should be allowed to operate
described prostitution as, "Sex
work." This idea that paying someone
to perform sex acts is ordinary and that it is the equivalent of
ordering a cappuccino is a pernicious and harmful myths.
Prostitution is violence against
women. As we aim to put pimps and traffickers out of business, we must
prevent them from this and address the historic issues with victims and abuse and I thank the front bench for up engagement on this issue and I look forward to working with them
closely.
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Commercial Exploitation by a Third Party. Speak the Question Is That Clause 2 Be Read a Second Time.
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That Clause 2 Be Read a Second Time. I Rise to Speak to the New
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I Rise to Speak to the New Clauses 12 and 123 and My Name and the Clauses in the Name of the
the Clauses in the Name of the Member for Tunbridge Wells and in the name of my right honourable
14:10
Rt Hon Dame Karen Bradley MP (Staffordshire Moorlands, Conservative)
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the name of my right honourable friend from Gosport, 121. I would like to start with those new clauses and 43, 121. I would like to start
with those new clauses and 40 362 comments the Harassment and Public Act which was taken through to a
Private Members' Bill. Greg Clark did great work on this bill and I
was a member and a member of the Bill committee and spoke at the
second and third reading and spoke on the committee and there was cross-party support and it was not
controversial in any way in terms of being legislation and in many ways it was correcting an oversight in the law that happened and had been
missed out on in previous
legislation and the problem is that it statutory instruments to commence
and it has not yet been brought forward to this House.
I am sure the
Minister is well aware and is looking to do so. This new clause allows the commencement to start now
rather than being a statutory employment. It could save her time so I hope she would look favourably
on this to say this act is supported across parties and there is no
division and it is something we all want to see and I hope the
government accepts the new clause and the honourable gentleman can
follow on in the steps of his predecessor in making sure this act becomes live and real for these
becomes live and real for these
people.
In turning to the new clause, my honourable friend from
Gosport, I have supported this and I was almost disappointed not to table
it myself because it fits in terms of the work I have done previously
on these issues and the Secretary of State has brought this in the
Digital Economy Bill and we looked at this for pornography, for
example. This is a simple piece of legislation which would mean non-
fatal strangulation is a criminal act in pornography. This is not
impacting what normal people wish to do in their private lives but it means the images could not be
available to be seen in pornographic films and that means there is protection for children who may look
at this and do not want to but we
recognise it happens and it means it does not normalise something which
is a dangerous act and should not be promoted in any way and I know from
promoted in any way and I know from
experience that the social media companies will remove it if it's a legal and stored filming it will
become legal content and social media companies will be forced to
act.
I hope we can support this across the House and it will be pushed to division this evening and
I hope the Minister can say something about the government
introducing something similar perhaps in the other place so we can
make sure this inappropriate content is illegal and not available to be
seen by children. My honourable friend has been a champion of this
and I know that he has to go out
to:30 and I wish to speak to it and
wish you a happy birthday.
-- 2:30. He is spending his Brett Lee in the
chamber and doing DLs. I think this
will have cross-party support. -- Spending his birthday. This is only
The section on sexual abuse against children. There is amazement that anyone convicted of a sexual offence
against a child may be allowed to have parental responsibility for
their own child. It is only the case that it is stopped if the offences committed against their own child. This simply cannot be right. I can
be possibly, in a situation where I
convicted sex offender, someone who has been convicted of a sexual offence against a child, is then allowed to make parental decisions
about their own children.
The constituent of my honourable friend
who talked about this, and I believe
they have been a real champion on this issue because, in this case, a
man who was convicted of raping a relative who was a child still has
parental responsibility for his own
child. This cannot be acceptable. It feels like it is a piece of
legislation that at some point we failed to address this issue but can be seen as a defect in the
legislation that we all agree should
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New clause 12 is a relatively
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New clause 12 is a relatively simple amendment to the Modern Slavery Act. It reflects a phenomenon we didn't know about when we introduced the act 10 years ago. I was still minister on that act and
I was still minister on that act and remember taking things through many definitions about what constitutes trafficking and exploitation. But at
trafficking and exploitation. But at
the time of the bill, orphanage tracking -- trafficking was simply not known. This may be a shock to
not known.
This may be a shock to the chamber. It is something where
the chamber. It is something where there is more awareness of it in Australia and but we don't know about it here. It is the phenomenon
about it here. It is the phenomenon Up and they are not orphanages. We think this is where children with no
think this is where children with no parents go to be looked after because the state doesn't have any other way to look after them. In this country and across the Western
world we don't want to put children into institutions like that.
We want them to be in family settings. To make sure they are fostered and have the right support. Orphanages exist
the right support. Orphanages exist around the world. In the case of these orphanages, they are not orphanages. More than 80% of the
orphanages. More than 80% of the children are not orphans. They have been put into these institutions which are not registered with the authorities to raise money. They are
simply about raising money. And the
foundation estimates there are 5.4 million children globally living in
these institutions.
This is something that is a horror. When it is put to people and digested, 5 million children, more than 80% of them have parents, have been taken
from their parents purely to raise money. There is utter disbelief. How
money. There is utter disbelief. How
can this be a situation today? It is estimated the Christian church in the United States gives $3.3 billion per year to institutions to look after children and they are not
orphanages. They are simply there to
raise money.
Imagine being on a cruise around Southeast Asia and one
of your excursions, which has happened and did happen, one of the
excursions is to view the orphanage. Read stories to children. Pay money
for the privilege of going to read a story to the children. How cruel is
that? Think about it. This is a child who has been put in this institution and perhaps their families believe they were going to
be put there for a better life. For education. I don't blame the families necessarily.
But these
children are there to raise money. A busload of tourists turn up and sit down and read a story to these
children. Kind Western people who give money and then these children are left. They don't have any
are left. They don't have any
further contact with these people. They might be gap year students who decided they were going to spend a bit of their time working in one of
these institutions and they are in South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, it is across the world.
Those young people are doing what they
believe is right. They are doing what they believe is the right
thing. But actually they are being exploited. These children are there
simply to raise money. My amendment changes the Modern Slavery Act. Adding one further definition into
section 3, the section which has definition of exploitation and it adds the definition of modern slavery exploitation, orphanage trafficking. It would just mean we
in our legislation would reflect on orphanage trafficking within law. I think there is more we need to do but this is a simple first step to make sure it is recognised.
That
would mean they would raise awareness but also individuals and organisations that wish to give
money to these orphanages would
potentially be in breach of the Modern Slavery Act and steps can be
taken against them. I would not wish to criminalise anybody doing their best and wanting to do right by people. But I think it is important
we do that. We would also be the second country in the world to mark this and the only other country that
has legislated for this is Australia.
I pay tribute to Linda Reynolds. She was a senator. I think she has just stopped but she is an
incredible woman and she took up this issue. She has gone round the
world with it. 's fault legislated change -- she has fault legislated
change. She has taken it up with the union and they have issued a law making guy to stop orphanage
trafficking and has passed resolutions around raising
awareness. Linda Reynolds is absolutely a hero on this issue. She spoke to 1 of these orphanages
herself and she said she walked away saying this is not right.
It doesn't
feel right. It doesn't feel authentic. These children don't seem
to be looked after. This doesn't seem to be something I want to support. I ask the Minister again and I believe this is not a new
clause which will be selected for a separate decision today but I would
ask the Minister to reflect on the steps the government may take and if the government might consider bringing this back again in the
other place. I will bring forward private members' bills and continue to amend legislation on this issue.
to amend legislation on this issue.
I hope at some point the government can get an agreement that they need and we can reflect on this horrible
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crime in our legislation. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I really appreciate following in the wake created by my two honourable
friends who have been incredible campaigners on these issues. I know from experience of meeting the victims and survivors they speak
victims and survivors they speak about that there are gaping holes in
about that there are gaping holes in legislation. I hope the House will
14:21
Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)
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legislation. I hope the House will support their amendments because they will do something to close them. I speak first about my new clauses, nine, 10 and 18. It would seek to better protect child victims
of sexual and criminal exploitation and empower frontline respondents to keep them safe. I welcome the introduction of mandatory duty to
report. Which was the recommendation, recommendation 13.
It can strengthen the system. However, following detailed
conversations and meetings with Rotherham and Sheffield safeguarding
staff, I have shared their concerns about the finer detail of implementation.
Put bluntly, this duty will not protect children as
intended, unless reporters are
adequately trained. Recognising reporting and crucially responding to abuse is far from
straightforward. To prevent overwhelming and already strained
systems, all those under the duty must be trained, know what to look
for and how to report it. Let me give an example. A nursery nurse
might see bruising around the
genital area of a toddler. With the fear, I put it that way of mandatory
reporting and a duty to do that, she
will report it into a hotline or directly to the safeguarding team.
Absolutely the right thing to do. However, toddlers fall over and in awkward places. That nursery worker
needs to have the skills and
experience to know when it is appropriate and when it is not. What evidence to gather and what not to. At the moment I am scared that
everything gets reported in. And the system there to protect and
safeguard will not be able to cope. So I hope that a standard training package is given to all people
falling under this duty.
I now turn to clause 10 and 18 on child criminal exploitation. It is
something I know the Minister is safeguarding and is familiar with, having campaigned on it for many years in the previous parliaments
will stop as the report said, right now criminally exploited children are at risk of persecution rather
than protection. My amendments seek to change that and have the backing
to change that and have the backing
for Action for Children and many
other charities. More than 2891 children were referred to the National Referral Mechanism as potential child victims of criminal
exploitation in a study but many more ended up in court rooms and not
safeguarding systems.
As my police
chief said to me, it is deeply sad that the first time we see these criminally exploited children is when we are looking to criminalise
them. We are not able to get above this and ahead of it. Clause 38
rightly creates a new offence of CCE. Recognising the severity of the
abuse stop but without the corresponding changes to the act of 2015, legal protections are inconsistent and inadequate. Something clause 10 is seeking to
fix stop clause 18 has a definition of criminal exploitation alongside
of criminal exploitation alongside
the offence in clause 28.
Evidence into the review demonstrates a current lack of a definition and it contributes to inconsistencies in
practice across the country and persistent failure to identify
children as victims. This is something I have seen time and again in Rotherham. Young exploited girls are all too often referred to as child prostitutes and not given the
This shift only started after we got
the statutory definition for child sexual exploitation. Clear, consistent legislation empowers professionals to intervene earlier. Prevent inappropriate prosecution
and ensures exploited children get
Amendment nine on registered sex offenders is supported by 39 cross- party MPs.
This would not be new to many in the house. I brought it up
under the last three parliaments. 11,500 sex offenders were prosecuted
for failing to notify changes in information between 2019 and 2022. The same ongoing pattern allows
offenders to slip through the cracks with more than 700 going completely
missing in those years. I welcome the measures in the bill which
require some offenders to seek
police authorisation before changing their name on passports and driving licences. This would make a difference and I genuinely welcome
it.
I remain deeply concerned many of the new measures lack strength and could lead to confusion. Clause 80 stated sex offenders must give
seven days of notice of using a new name but it does not define what
using means. My amendment seeks to provide needed clarity. It will require offenders to notify the
police of intention to change their name seven days before doing so by deed poll. It would allow time for the authorities to conduct appropriate risk assessments. But
more than this, I want to draw attention to the fact that this bill still relies too heavily on a sex
offender to do the right thing.
Something they rarely do. Finally, I speak in my capacity as chair of the international development Select
Committee. I speak to clause 99 and
100. Last week my committee published a report on international humanitarian law. It is vital those
responsible for attacking aid workers, unlawful blocking of humanitarian as, are brought to
justice. Throughout the enquiry it became clear that the UK needed the
powers to exercise universal jurisdiction over the crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity
and war crimes.
There must be no safe haven for those who commit
these crimes. These clauses allow the authorities to prosecute people suspected of these crimes without any requirement for a connection to
the UK. At a time when legitimacy
and impartiality of some international court is being
questioned, the UK must stand firm in supporting these important mechanisms for accountability to
prevent impunity after serious violations of international humanitarian law while also making sure it has the domestic power
needed to hold perpetrators to account, no matter where the crimes
are committed.
14:29
Rt Hon Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP (Chingford and Woodford Green, Conservative)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I speak to new clause 5 in my name and that of my honourable friends
around the House in different political positions. Before I do
that, I do have a moment where I want to congratulate the government.
Unusual from the opposition but I congratulate them anyway. I want to
talk about the conclusion of the cuckooing amendment, which was
criticised in the last Parliament
and it has been passport it through to this and it is now a criminal
offence.
This will help those who are taken over in their houses, the vulnerable, the elderly and when crimes are committed in these
houses, it will give the police a reason to go in without explicit knowledge of the crime being
committed other than the cuckooing. I do thank the government for making that now a law and it will go through hopefully without too much
of a problem in the other place. I am rising on new clause 5 which is consequential on an amendment which
again I thank the government for doing which is on cycling, reckless and dangerous cycling.
There were no offences relevant to this. People
have been killed and injured in the course of bad behaviour on the roads
by cyclists and in particular a campaigner on this issue is the reason why I brought this forward.
The government has accepted that and it is now bound in again to this
legislation. But there was some issue at the same time about the
We know that e-bikes are now responsible for some of the worst
crimes on the streets, antisocial behaviour and threatening behaviour
as well.
Because they are silent and can creep up on people quickly, you
will find a lot of them are being used in crimes of snatching things.
Moving away from those that are
legal, and I will come back to that in a second, legal e-bikes are a
problem in the way that they have failed to be prosecuted by the
police. The problem is that, like cycles, they are not included in the relevant legislation that allows
them to be prosecuted for offences that they commit, dangerous,
reckless etc, normal for bicycles.
The interesting thing is that there
is a growing huge problem and there were 462 pedestrian casualties
resulting from cycles including e-
bikes and data indicate 11,266 incidents involving e-bikes and e-
scooters in 2023-24, an increase from 10,000 the previous year. The rise partly reflects the growing
number of riders and concerns regarding the reckless behaviour of
users. Riders of e-bikes are more likely to be involved in accidents
compared to traditional cyclists. The injury severity with accidents
on e-bikes, they are nearly twice as likely to cause severe injuries and
twice as likely to require surgical intervention compared to
conventional bicycles.
There are accidents at the moment and not to
mention the illegal and enhanced e- bikes which the honourable that he
will now are the cause of even more
significant issues. I have mentioned this in the new clause 5 because it was our impression that the initial
requirement did not deal properly with the e-bikes but after a long
debate with the transport Department and a heavy look through some legislation that already existed, I must say that I have finally agreed
with them that because the original
amendment on cycling was laid down, the definition of an e-bike under
the cycling element now incorporates them into the original amendment
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from the government. I have a similar concern about
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I have a similar concern about mobility scooters. Obviously they are a fabulous tool for many in the
are a fabulous tool for many in the constituency to get out and about the number of serious injuries caused by the scooters has gone up
caused by the scooters has gone up by nearly 60% in the last year and the number of fatalities has
the number of fatalities has doubled. They can go up to 8 miles an hour and go on the roads but they
an hour and go on the roads but they are not subject to insurance rules and cannot be penalised under
dangerous driving regulation either.
Does he agree that the government should consider this carefully
should consider this carefully moving forward? I would love the Minister to look at whether there is
Minister to look at whether there is any legislation that would be implementable in cases like this.
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implementable in cases like this. And grateful to my honourable
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And grateful to my honourable friend for that. She is right. We
friend for that. She is right. We have to focus on what is in essence new clause 5, bicycles and e-bikes.
new clause 5, bicycles and e-bikes. The definition of a legal e-bike is
one that uses pedals and is used to assist the cyclist. All the other
ones are legal and this brings me to the problem which we have. If this will go through, as it will, in law, then, in reality, the question mark is, will the government press
release to start arresting and prosecuting people who deliberately
use the bikes for nefarious purposes and those who use it dangerously on
parts because they are more dangerous in the sense that they are
e-bikes and get up to higher speed, even though they are supposed to be governed.
They are still higher than
most cyclists in the normal act of
We had a discussion about this earlier. On the subject of legal e- bikes, would he agree that the illegal conversion kits which are
accessible online which allow an
ordinary bicycle to do 30-40 mph must be clamped down on. We discussed this before and the government has said it is for the
local authority trading standards to have the power to stop that.
have the power to stop that.
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My honourable friend raises that point at an opportune time because I was about to get onto it. We are on the same side so I thank him for
the same side so I thank him for giving way. The real problem that we
giving way. The real problem that we have got is for the government to maybe do something in the other
maybe do something in the other place. All other non-bicycle electricity-supported cycles are
electricity-supported cycles are legal or have to be on the road and qualify for road use, which means,
qualify for road use, which means,
qualify for road use, which means, in many cases, either passing a test or treating it like a car or motorcycle.
The problem with that is
motorcycle. The problem with that is most people do not know that. They are either ignorant of it or do not care. The thing is that they can buy
care. The thing is that they can buy these illegal bikes in legal shops in the UK and to me that seems
in the UK and to me that seems
in the UK and to me that seems bizarre. They are not bikes, they can be all sorts of contraptions allowed to be sold to them and then
allowed to be sold to them and then they think that they know how to use them and most people do not take the highway code or the law and just use
them and that a danger to themselves and also others who are road users at the same time and I would push and press the government to look at
this in the other place.
They will look at whether there is some way in which selling these things to people
without proper licenses are on display and that should be made
illegal.
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I think that there is work to be
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I think that there is work to be done to make people aware of these. People do not realise that these are
available and if they could buy them in legal shops, they do not realise they are doing anything wrong in the
they are doing anything wrong in the first place. Will he agree that the public campaign would be welcome?
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public campaign would be welcome? I agree that it would be a good idea for people to know that what
idea for people to know that what they are buying is legal and I suspect many do and if that understanding is backed up by a
understanding is backed up by a penalty for the misuse of those and
penalty for the misuse of those and selling them in shops, it would be a better way to deal with it because lots of kids do not know that and
lots of kids do not know that and they can pay for these things and that is where the danger comes from.
We are shutting the door too late. They have got onto the roads, created an instant, killed
created an instant, killed themselves. We have got to figure
themselves. We have got to figure that out. The final bit of this is the fact that they can change the monitors inside the boxes, even on
monitors inside the boxes, even on legal bikes and that is what we have
legal bikes and that is what we have
The main point is... It is not that
great.
Who knows? I wheel that the
motorcyclists have to be tested much
more than car drivers. They have got to know everything because it is a
more dangerous mode of transport.
With all of that, you cannot buy a motorcycle in a shop and take it
away unless you can show the licence and you are qualified to ride the
bike and you need an instruction to do that. These can go and without
anything and by the bikes, the electric vehicles.
It seems bizarre that should be allowed. We want
people to use non-petrol, diesel, or the rest of it, because of the environment.
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On that point, is my honourable
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On that point, is my honourable friend aware of the campaign from Simon Cowell there he purchased an
Simon Cowell there he purchased an electric bike, flipped over
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backwards and almost broke his back. It is a clear indication of how dangerous it can be. It is. These bikes can often
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It is. These bikes can often exhilarate very fast and you will
exhilarate very fast and you will only experience that if you are used to riding something that moves quickly on two wheels because
otherwise you will go out the back.
You are not on a bike or motorcycle. Knowing that will take some
Knowing that will take some instruction. The main point is that it is a good illustration of why we are being too casual about these
are being too casual about these modes of transport and the young kids do not understand there should be exceptions and I think we should
be exceptions and I think we should do more on this.
I will end on this.
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do more on this. I will end on this. He's been very generous with interventions. I support the amendment. The amendment includes
amendment. The amendment includes the e-scooters because it is a real
problem with them because they do not meet the criteria of the
Highways Act they are banned and
police will say that they are banned in the public areas and we have a real problem with that. People do not know it and we need the law to
be more proactive, deliberate, and
that is why this amendment is important.
Is there anything that he would like to add? We have a real
problem with illegal usage.
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I bow before my right honourable friend's greater knowledge on this
matter and for this purpose, I would agree and I'm urging the government to take this away and look at this
to take this away and look at this in the other place. I will not move the amendment because, for legal
the amendment because, for legal rights, it is incorporated in the
rights, it is incorporated in the amendment. It is the illegal bikes and the e-scooters that we need more
and the e-scooters that we need more work on and my worry is that you can buy these things without any qualification whatsoever as a motorcyclist I have to demonstrate
motorcyclist I have to demonstrate that I am qualified to radiate away
that I am qualified to radiate away from the shop and you are not required to do so with e-bikes and e-scooters and so it is a
e-scooters and so it is a peculiarity.
If you are asked in
peculiarity. If you are asked in legislation, we follow through. This one not. I would charge them to look carefully at this to see if we can
carefully at this to see if we can define it better in the other place and make sure shops cannot sell them and I will say that I will not be
and I will say that I will not be moving this new clause because we are at the right place with the
government.
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I will speak to clauses 23, 24, 25 in my name. There are
25 in my name. There are restrictions on the delivery and pointed knives and heart attack and
14:43
Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)
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pointed knives and heart attack and the new clause is unnecessary and
unlawful. This is to do with the
role, Gypsy, Traveller community. --
Roma. I do not intend to press for a vote today but I look forward to the response as we progress. I support other amendments and new clause is
and I've signed the new clause 19 in the name of my honourable friend and
155 and my honourable friend for Bolton rest and setting up an
economic crime fighting fund and that was passed yesterday.
The second reading of the bill, I
expressed a general concern that the necessary legislation affected the
criminal justice system and were set out in the other bills and place an
even greater strain on the system and I will not repeat what I said then but I hope the ministers from the Home Office are working together
to ensure resources are in place to
deal with the unintended consequences and the supply and one part of the criminal justice system
causing demanded another.
More police numbers mean more arrests, prosecutions, convictions, and
prosecutions, convictions, and
incarcerations. Early release and alternatives to custody can create
more work for probation and police.
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Clauses 23 and 24, the purpose of these new clauses is to change the selling practice and manufacturers
selling practice and manufacturers and retailers following this, to
and retailers following this, to prevent the delivery of lethal pointed knives to domestic premises or remote locker collection points.
or remote locker collection points.
or remote locker collection points. Nothing prevents delivering them to chefs or butchers or a commercial
chefs or butchers or a commercial enterprise that use pointed knives in business.
To prevent the display of pointed knives in shops but allow safer rounded knives to be delivered
safer rounded knives to be delivered by courier or meal with minimum
by courier or meal with minimum
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by courier or meal with minimum There are three key drivers. Home Office figures show there are two people killed by kitchen knives
people killed by kitchen knives every week. In homicide cases where a pointed weapon is used, more than
half of them were kitchen knives.
Research from De Montfort University
Research from De Montfort University showed that it is the pointed part that kills. The safe and rounded knives may injure but do not penetrate clothing, let alone
arteries and vital organs.
We are approaching the one-year anniversary
of the Southport killings. The Dunblane killings led to changes in the law on the sale of guns. The Southport anniversary should be the
moment for knives. I welcome the
amendment to the bill to impose age verification. But these amendments do not go far enough. What could and
should be done, no reputable manufacturer or retailer would be
prosecuted if these become law and it would make it easier for
reputable retailers to mark it and
sell as round kitchen knives.
A homeowner could still purchase a pointed knife by mail order. They would simply have to pick up and
collect purchases in the store where there is more effective face to face
age verification. This is a complex issue. There is no single, simple solution. These clauses would help
solution. These clauses would help
to reduce harm caused by knives, whether by criminal activity,
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accident or self-harm. On that point, I agree with my honourable friends's clause. In fact
honourable friends's clause. In fact when I was a minister, we imposed
when I was a minister, we imposed this question on having rounded knives. I'm glad to see the debate has moved forward. At that stage
people almost thought it was comical this would help to solve the problem. So I do thank my noble
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problem. So I do thank my noble friend for the pursuit of this issue. I am very grateful to my honourable friends. It was regarded
honourable friends. It was regarded as comical. But now Idris Elba is in
as comical. But now Idris Elba is in favour and we have some experts
across the field and I pay tribute to celebrities and to the victims
to celebrities and to the victims and also the experts on legal, medical and psychological effects.
medical and psychological effects.
They have suggested practical alternatives to reduce, obviously not eliminate but reduce the number
not eliminate but reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries. With that I will turn to clause 25. It
that I will turn to clause 25. It seeks to repeal additional police powers related to unauthorised encampments and it would introduce
into the Public Order Act via the crime sentencing and Courts act of 2022. These powers were supported
under the previous government. They are further punitive and hostile
victimisation is of Romani, gypsy and Irish travellers who are among the most marginalised of groups
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within UK society. I thank the honourable gentleman
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I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. I am clear that when it comes to travellers and minority
groups, they absolutely do have rights but so too do they have responsibilities. When this law was
responsibilities. When this law was put in place, there was a very good
put in place, there was a very good reason. Does the right honourable gentleman agree with me that if he is to repeal this law, it leaves
communities aren't protected against unauthorised traveller encampments
which in areas such as my own became a game of cat and mouse with litter and worse left in our communities
and worse left in our communities and the police would be left with no
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power to tackle it. I'm afraid that is the sort of nonsense I hear a lot of the time. Let me hear some of the measures
Let me hear some of the measures which were in force before that.
which were in force before that. Injunctions to protect unauthorised encampments. Licensing, possession
orders, local authority powers to direct unauthorised encampments.
direct unauthorised encampments. Addressing obstructions to public
highways. Enforcement notifications.
Breach of condition notices. The power of entry onto land.
How to direct unauthorised encampments to leave and police powers to direct trespasses to alternative sites. That was the provision before it
came into effect. There are ample powers to deal with these issues and
I am not going to give way again. I
That is the sort of information that she peddles which I'm afraid it leaves us in the situation we are in. The constant threat of criminalisation of nomadic
lifestyles has a devastating effect
on families and that is why international bodies including the Council of Europe and the United
Nations have raised concerns about the legality of these particular provisions.
It is these particular
provisions that I am addressing. I
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give way. You have painted a complex legislated picture in relation to
legislated picture in relation to this issue. Would you agree that there was a need for the legislation
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there was a need for the legislation in 2022 because all the acts you read out were working? I would say the powers are there and you had to put in the
and you had to put in the implementation. I do take the measured way in which he puts
measured way in which he puts forward his point. I think to
counter what he has said, in May 2024, after the judicial review of
2024, after the judicial review of part four of the act, brought against the Home Office, the High Court issued a declaration of incompatibility with the human
incompatibility with the human rights act.
The court found that certain provisions on the extension
certain provisions on the extension of a ban or returning to a particular area for three months up
particular area for three months up to 12 months constituted unjustified discrimination. Despite this, these
discrimination. Despite this, these powers remain in force and while
powers remain in force and while there is an incompatibility with our own laws it only relates to the provision so I put it to the Minister that all of part four could
be scrapped without any detriment in
enforcement under previous laws.
The police and local authorities do already have a whole spectrum of
other powers which I have set out which they can and do use against
encampments. If they are failing to do so then the question should be with them. But I also know that the
police did not seek these powers. They were simply imposed upon them.
The Crime and Policing Bill presents a perfect opportunity for the
government to put this right by repealing part four of the act.
Which allows the police to ban travellers from an area.
Arresting
and finding them and even seizing
homes. I will bring my remarks to a close there. I hope to bring some
positive news today. But if my honourable friends wishes to discuss
it further, I have excellent
representative groups and we would be happy to engage in that
discussion to see what can be made fair to nomadic and non-nomadic communities. That is all that is
being asked for here. The law does not create a balance. It creates a
bias at the moment.
14:54
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP (North Cotswolds, Conservative)
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I rise to speak in support of new clause 41 in my name and that of my
honourable colleagues. It is a very simple amendment. It requires the Inspectorate of Constabulary and the Fire and Rescue Services to include
firearms licensing as part of their
obligations. I would like to declare an interest as the chair of the APPG for shooting and conservation and the firearm certificate holder that I am. I thank the Minister for
attending our most recent meeting to
answer questions, a range of questions and we were grateful for her time.
I share her commitment to protect public safety through
sensible firearms laws and efficient licensing systems. It is not in the interests of the public or the
shooting community for the wrong people to have guns. That is why I
am moving this amendment. Members will be aware the licensing system
in the UK is a press code --
postcode lottery. There is inconsistency in the application of the law and guidance and in
services. They are endemic across the system. 25% of police forces are taking a year or more to process
grants for a certificate with huge cost to the system.
In Gloucestershire, the foresight know
best put out a statement saying that
they were not accepting any new applications because of a lack of firearms training officers for two
years. I intervened and I have to say they did act quickly and reversed this decision, setting up a
command and I now get regular updates from the team. But this time
weight is not good enough when the government is imposing a 133% increase in fees. An inefficient,
ineffective licensing department endangers the public.
The inquest
into the tragic Plymouth murders, the Devon and Cornwall Police firearms licensing department issued
a certificate to the murderer, then removed his firearm certificate
after he made an assault and then incredulously gave it back when he
had done an anger management course. This was described as a chaotic
shambles which could not operate in its own risk matrix. It identified the murderer as low risk when in
actual fact he was high risk and should never have received his certificate back again.
I appreciate
the Minister made reassurances about
the licensing department and information is being made available to the public on the waiting time
for renewals and new applications but it does not go far enough to ensure police forces take inefficiencies seriously and put a
plan in place to improve departments
across England and Wales. This stands for police effectiveness efficiency and legitimacy and it takes place every year. So for every
takes place every year. So for every
police force in England and Wales, inspections include themes such as treating the public fairly, responding to the public and
resources and value for money.
Firearms licences comes under all
three categories and yet there is no mention of it in any previously
public inspection. I know the Minister has assured us that all funding received for cost and recovery of firearms licensing will
be ring fenced for improving licensing departments and yet this
is not guaranteed. We have written
to all forces when the increase in licences were imposed recently, seeking assurances that funding
would go to licensing and to date only 33% of the Constabulary have
given that assurance.
Insisting that the inclusion of firearms licensing
inspections is a powerful way to ensure police forces are publicly
accountable and funded properly and run efficiently for the benefit of
public safety is a sensible, proportional and probing amendment which I hope the Minister might feel
able to accept if it were to be
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I speak in support of my new clause
15:00
Bell Ribeiro-Addy MP (Clapham and Brixton Hill, Labour)
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107 which stands in my name and to lend support to other vital amendments, particularly related to protest rights, joint enterprise, facial recognition and predictive
facial recognition and predictive policing technology. I will begin with my new clause which would
require the Home Secretary to publish impact assessments within 12 months of this bill becoming law. I do acknowledge the initial Equality
do acknowledge the initial Equality Impact Assessment's but I must stress that these initial assessments are not a substitute for a thorough ongoing review of how these powers will be used and who
these powers will be used and who
these powers will be used and who they will affect.
This bill touches every part of the criminal justice system. Police powers, sentencing, surveillance and if we know anything from decades of experience, such
legislation rarely lands equally. We know black men are disproportionately stopped and searched. Muslim communities are targeted by counterterrorism laws. Ethnic minorities face under
Ethnic minorities face under
protection and systemic mistrust. We must also talk frankly about how the system fails women. Particularly in the context of violence against
the context of violence against women and girls. While the state has
women and girls.
While the state has found countless new ways to expand police powers and increase maximum sentences, we are yet to find the
will to use them to properly protect
women. Not when women who report domestic abuse and sexual violence
are ignored and when black and working class people who support violence are dismissed. Not when rape is effectively decriminalised
with cases rarely getting to court. Let's not forget the cases which
shocked the nation and the report
Misogyny within police ranks and institutional discrimination and the failures of some forces still do not admit exist.
We have a lot of work to do to rebuild trust between the
police and the community. That is why this clause matters. If we are going to hand over more power to the police and the state, we also need to demand more accountability and
transparency. We have to ask what it
means for women, survivors and
marginalised communities. An impact assessment will help make sure this has understands the real-world effects of the laws passed
particularly on women and girls and on those who have experienced inequality of race, class and
inequality of race, class and
I want to voice my continued support
for amendments relating to joint
enterprise.
Too many young people, disproportionately joint black men, have been convicted under joint enterprise for being present and not for committing the crime but being
in the wrong place, with the wrong people, at the wrong time. Sometimes
this place just happens to be where they live and this relies on racist
assumptions about gang affiliation, collective guilt, and despite repeated warnings from campaigners and senior judges, nothing has
changed and that is why it's important to review and correct any
further injustices. I want to end by reaffirming support for clause 50,
which supports the fundamental right to process and the potential infringement of protest in the bill over all.
Protest is not a nuisance
but a vital part of democracy and there is the Suffragettes the man in
the vote, trade unionists for fair
pay, Black Rates -- Black Lives Matter. I am here because of the protest of those who came before me and any legislation which seeks to silence dissent or criminalises
those who dare to challenge power is
wrong. The struggles are a mark of progress tomorrow. We must not
continue the legacy of the previous government. Our job as lawmakers is
to protect the People's rights, not repress them.
I want to reiterate my
concern about provisions in the bill
related to facial recognition, AI, and predictive policing and these
are addressed in the clauses for the
members from the Brighton Pavilion. They are based on biased data,
deployed unbiased ways, and have a thread to civil liberties. Faecal recognition has been shown to be
less accurate in identifying black
and brown faces. It is being used to
justify further as violence in these committees.
This is automated justice and the part without upper guard rails, there will be issues
with technologies which infringe discriminations in ways we do not yet understand that that which those affected will feel for years to
affected will feel for years to
come. The role of the House is not just to pass laws but to make sure that they are just, impacts of, and
would affect values of equality and accountability. That means demanding
better protections for women and girls in the face of state and police failure, defending the right to protest, ending illegal doctrines
like joint enterprise which sweep up the innocent with the guilty, which means putting strict safeguards on
surveillance technologies which are disproportionately harming marginalised communities and that would mean putting in place
something like the new clause 107 to make sure we can properly assess and
monitor the real effects of how powers in the House are affecting the most marginalised in our
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community. An immediate time limit of five minutes.
15:05
Mr Louie French MP (Old Bexley and Sidcup, Conservative)
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minutes. I rise to speak in favour of the
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I rise to speak in favour of the new clause 130 to strengthen rules with regard to tool that. In May, I
with regard to tool that. In May, I joined police officers in a raid to uncover stolen tools at a boot sale in London. The unlicensed boot sales
are notorious for stolen goods. I was astounded. Officers arrived and
police cars and unmarked cars and there was a flurry of action with stolen goods, a van trying to flee,
and keys to vehicles suddenly lost.
Police struck quickly and the numbers and the stolen tools were uncovered and six arrests were made and eventually the officers struck
another mode with a van overflowing
with stolen tools. Came to a second
site. 160 stolen tools were found
worth around £500,000. Officers
returned some marks tools to owners. This shows why tradespeople must mark the tools properly and if they
have DNA tagging, police can show
they are responsible and return the goods.
Marking the tools alone will not stop the dual theft. Vans are being broken into in broad daylight
and tools sold openly across the country. It is a disgrace. The law must change to promise those
responsible and crackdown on the
Brit seals driving this wave across the country. I encourage all members
to support the amendment tabled by
my honourable friend, the new clause 130. It will increase fines to better match the severity of the crime, reflecting the cost of replacing tools and repairing damage to vans and lost work.
Secondly...
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I am grateful to the honourable
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I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for a giving way. Does he
agree that by accepting the amendment, it would be one way the government could help in terms of reaching out to businesses and
traders ensuring we are on the side of local businesses and people who give it every morning and there are issues with this and these tools are
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issues with this and these tools are key for people to do their jobs. We must back the makers, not the
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We must back the makers, not the
lawmakers and put that is the van men, rural farmers have until stolen, the impact is significant and the ability to go to work and on families and the ability to buy
families and the ability to buy food. We must back the makers, not the lawbreakers. It will impose
the lawbreakers. It will impose tougher sentences on these by recognising the seriousness of the
recognising the seriousness of the crime. Finally, it would require councils to create an enforcement plan to stop the sale of stolen
plan to stop the sale of stolen goods and Brit seals.
These are necessary changes to stop dual theft across the country. Tradespeople and
industry cannot afford parliamentary delay. Campaigners, tradespeople, experts in the industry have told us that action is needed now. Every 12
minutes, a van is broken into and the despair. It costs thousands of pounds and hopes people's mental health and stops them from earning a
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living. Does my honourable friend agree
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Does my honourable friend agree that it is not just theft from a van but this is actually people's whole
but this is actually people's whole livelihoods and their ability to work and it can shut down a
business. Does he agree that
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business. Does he agree that therefore it is worthy of being its own friend? I thank him for the vital
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I thank him for the vital contribution. Coming onto the larger impact, we often think about small businesses and there is value and
businesses and there is value and goods at the roundtable and saw
goods at the roundtable and saw Openreach fans are fed three times a
Openreach fans are fed three times a day on average and this delays the fatal blow. This was stolen and just
three months and it has impacted it and if any MPs are unsure of the
and if any MPs are unsure of the need to act now, they must speak to
need to act now, they must speak to Frankie Williams, local police, and
Frankie Williams, local police, and the teams only tools who have worked
tirelessly on this issue and I thank them all, especially the teams
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leaving the hard work around the country. I thank him for a giving way. It
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I thank him for a giving way. It speech. We also acknowledge my constituent who runs a podcast for tradespeople and brought this issue to my attention.
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to my attention. I thank him for that contribution. I applaud all efforts
contribution. I applaud all efforts of people making podcast, tradespeople going online, sharing experiences, and any member can look
experiences, and any member can look
experiences, and any member can look them up and you will see cases every single day of people having their tools stolen and the damage that it
tools stolen and the damage that it is doing to financial and mental health and the impact it has on the wider economy is so severe we must act now, Parliament must act to
act now, Parliament must act to
act now, Parliament must act to change the law today, I would hope.
I hope some of the PCCs that are getting stuck in and I piloted
getting stuck in and I piloted examples of police forces in Sidcup and heaving in particular and
and heaving in particular and colleagues in Kent and Sussex are doing great work to tackle this issue. I've highlighted that this is not party political and I appreciate
not party political and I appreciate the work of the honourable member
the work of the honourable member
for Portsmouth north on shining a spotlight on this and we can work across parties to get this changed and I hope in all sincerity that all MPs get behind this amendment and
that the government can help us to change the law and get on the side
of the makers and tackle the lawbreakers.
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I rise in support of the new clause 13 in my name and clause 15
15:11
Kim Johnson MP (Liverpool Riverside, Labour)
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in the name of my honourable friend. It proposes to change the law on
joint enterprise and for those who do not know, this is centuries-old
and allows people to be convicted of a crime, murder or manslaughter,
even if one person was not involved.
This disproportionately impacts black people with young black men 16
more times to be convicted under joint enterprise than their white counterparts. I would like to thank
all of those people who supported by Private Members' Bill that had its
second reading in February, 2024, and for the continued support for
the campaign, particularly joint enterprise, not guilty by association.
That is the result of a
judicial review brought upon them
and there was a pilot survey of joint enterprise cases, resulting in access to accurate data and
highlighting the racial disparities that exist. The case law was
reversed by the Supreme Court ruling
in 2016 and it was identified in terms of how the law had taken a wrong turn for 30 years and the Law
Commission are undertaking a review of homicide and the sentencing three
from murder and will examine the law in light of this court ruling and
campaigners are anticipating clear solutions on the disparities and
inequality.
I understand the government has reservations about my amendment it is clear there is
recognition across the House that the joint enterprise must be fixed.
The prosecution is flawed and ritualised. The Supreme Court ruling
of 2016 did not resolve the key problems with the law. Speculative
prosecution theories are accepted in place of strong evidence which allows and encourages racist
stereotypes and using gang
narratives to imply collective intent, using taste in music as evidence of being in a gang and police being called as expert
witnesses.
We are making significant
inroads and proposing a new bill to
deal with this and also removing artistic expression from criminal
summaries. We will produce a report
for the government in 2036. The reform of joint enterprise is long
overdue. It has gone as long as it can and it is now for Parliament. These are the words of the former
DPP, now the Prime Minister, "Madam Deputy Speaker, I return to new
clause 50 which seeks to update protesting law.
The purpose is to
keep public authority powers proportionate and to uphold the right in society to protest
peacefully as a fundamental pillar of free and equal democracy. The right to protest and the freedom to
protest goes back centuries and is
championed across the political spectrum, from the peasants revolt to the suffragettes. We celebrate the great British tradition of direct action. Many freedoms have
been won this week including workers rights. Most recently, we've seen
farmers protesting outside Parliament and mass trespass in
defence of the right to roam, to
strike at workers, anti-protesters and beyond.
Millions of much peacefully against the genocide in Gaza and thousands of disabled people have protested against
proposed welfare disabled benefit changes. We have seen protesters outside parliament against the
assisted dying Bill and pro-life testers outside this place yesterday. The ability to protest
and the freedom of expression and
assembly are protected by Article 10
and 11 on the convention of human rights and enshrined in UK law. The plant demonstrated outside BBC headquarters in January demanded
impartial coverage of the war in Gaza and was banned by police on the Bay City headquarters are in close proximity to a synagogue and this was after weeks of agreement of the
route with the police.
This is a serious infringement of our right
and we cannot protest outside the
headquarters of public broadcasters, what does that say about our democracy? There should be concern for all who believe in democracy and
free society. The government of the chance to change the course and rollback on these clampdowns and
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I rise in support of new clause
15:16
Mike Martin MP (Tunbridge Wells, Liberal Democrat)
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43 in my name and the honourable member for Walthamstow and the chair of the Select Committee who I thank for their support. It is also signed by 100 members from across the
house, representing the entire political spectrum, almost every party, including many members of the
Labour Party. This seeks to do
something very simple, to commence an act of Parliament, the Protection from Sex-based Harassment in Public
Bill act of 2023, which has already gained Royal assent and this simply
criminalises the harassment of people in public based on their sex but this is a crime that overwhelmingly affects women.
So
this is really about the criminalisation of harassment of
people in public. The act started life as a private members' bill.
Laid by my predecessor Greg Clark. He was approached by 1/6 former in
our constituency, who said she had been harassed while coming home from
school. 33% of schoolgirls say they have been harassed in their school
uniforms in the United Kingdom. We should be ashamed of that statistic.
Greg was ashamed. He took action.
The 2023 act as was past creates a specific offence of harassment on
account of somebody's gender.
Like this amendment that I have written
in support, it did have cross-party support. Including it must be said
from the Member for Birmingham Yardley, now the Minister for safeguarding. The act criminalises
harassing following shouting degrading comments, making obscene
gestures with the deliberate intent to cause harm or distress and it carries a sentence of a maximum of
two years. I am quite disappointed and confused with the interactions I have had with the government on this
issue. Every time I have pressed the government for an update on the commencement, I have not really
received answers that are
substantial.
Eight months ago I asked a question in this House and got a letter from the government saying the Home Office is making all
the necessary arrangements and I would be contacted when a
commencement date is confirmed. As a new MP I thought that was quite
promising. Five months ago I tabled a written question and the response was it would publish next steps at
the earliest opportunity. Okay. Two weeks ago I got a reply from the
government to a further communication stating that an update on commencement would be provided in
due course.
Each communication I have received from the government is
a little bit more vague. A little bit less definitive about commencement. So yesterday at her
request I met with the Minister at her instigation and I thought it was
fantastic. Finally we will get some answers but there was nothing, I'm
afraid. Nothing. I asked this
Minister, not that minister, and I also point to a meeting at the is
not going to say anything new to what was previously said. I give
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way. I am proud to put my name to new
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I am proud to put my name to new clause 43 in the honourable member's name. I pay tribute to him for the way in which he has taken Greg
way in which he has taken Greg Clark's previous work in a cross- party way for the benefit of the community, going forward. Does he
community, going forward. Does he share my frustration and slight bewilderment at the way in which the government appears to be blocking
commencement?
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I thank him for his intervention. What I would say in the defence of the government is that I do not think it is a difference in policy.
think it is a difference in policy. I think it is a difference in timing. But the timing seems to be very elastic and what we see Kai think here and maybe the Minister
think here and maybe the Minister could respond is a definitive time for when the act will be commenced.
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for when the act will be commenced. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. As somebody who was very proud having been working for many
proud having been working for many years to recognise misogyny within
the hate crime framework, to work
with his predecessor on this legislation, it will be two years in September since this House on a
cross-party basis agreed to this legislation. Two years that the work
has in theory been done to commence
Many of us on this side are proud of our commitment to recognising misogyny in hate crime and I wonder if he will join with me in saying
that we want to understand what the barriers might be to getting on with the job which across the House we know will keep women and girls safer
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on our streets. I thank the honourable lady for her intervention. I can actually
her intervention. I can actually give her a specific time. It is 21 months to the day since this act
months to the day since this act received Royal assent. I think perhaps what we might have from the Minister if she would be so gracious is either a time for commencement,
is either a time for commencement, or as the honourable member says, a specific problem stopping the act
specific problem stopping the act from being commenced rather than some of the more general responses
some of the more general responses we have had to date so far.
I will
conclude now. I am doubly disappointed that this act, though passed in a previous Parliament,
passed in a previous Parliament, expressing the unanimous will of
Parliament, passed without division, it is also entirely commensurate with the Labour government's policy
to halve violence against women and girls. Harassment and violence are
girls. Harassment and violence are on a continued spectrum and one of the things we are trying to do here
the things we are trying to do here is change the culture of men towards how they act towards women.
This act
is part of that. I think it really contributes to the government's
priorities and manifesto. Indeed the Minister sat on the Public Bill
Committee for this act in 2023 and said the Labour Party would work
with the then Conservative government to make sure the bill passes without division and so it
did. Therefore I would ask, and the government has signalled that it is
going to vote against this amendment when it has been selected for a vote tonight and may vote against it, so
I ask why when the amendment has cross-party support, the original act had unanimous cross-party
support, why would the government
vote against this amendment? It seems to me they are voting against their own manifesto and commitments
while in opposition.
It is difficult to understand. Because I think we
all want the same thing. So I will conclude that implementing the protection from sex-based harassment
is an important step in helping the government achieve its own manifesto
commitments. Let this not be another speech without action. I urge honourable and right honourable members to vote for new clause 43.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I speak to talk to new clause 47 in
I speak to talk to new clause 47 in my name. It is a very simple clause
my name. It is a very simple clause in a way. How do we stop mobile
15:24
Dawn Butler MP (Brent East, Labour)
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phones which have been stolen being reconnected and being sold on? If we
can break this link, we can stop the proliferation of mobile phones which have been stolen. There is a 150% increase in mobile phones which have
been stolen, 200 snatched every single day, and there has been an
increase in places such as Westminster and I know there are a
number of MPs, some sat close to me, who have had their mobile phones
stolen. The amount of money that is
Phone manufacturers are not keen, I believe, to stop this because it is part of the business model.
When you get your mobile phone stolen you go
and buy another one. I feel it is in
their business model so what this clause does is say when somebody's phone is stolen and it has been
reported, the police then report it to the provider and they stop that
phone from being reconnected and it in effect becomes ineffective. If they fail to do that within 48
hours, then they are fined £10,000. Because we need to make sure that the manufacturers take this seriously.
At the moment they do
not. If we want to stop the market of mobile phones being stolen to
order, we need to make sure that manufacturers take this seriously
and make sure these numbers are acceptable and that thieves cannot
reconnect with stolen mobile phones.
15:26
Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker
and I rise to speak to new clause
121, tabled in my name and supported by the Member for Rutland and Stamford and supported I'm pleased to say by members from all sides of
the chamber. It extends the definition of extreme pornography to include depicting non-fatal
strangulation. This was made a criminal offence in 2021 by the last
government, not because we think the government should necessarily stick
In their own room but because abusers use non-fatal strangulation without consent because it leaves a visible injury and makes it hard to
prosecute under domestic abuse cases.
When a woman died from strangulation it is becoming increasingly common to use this as a defence that it was a sex game gone
wrong. Non-fatal strangulation has a life out there in the world of
online pornography. The UK as we know is a large consumer and in any
given month more than 10 million adults in the UK will access online pornography and the majority of them will be male, that is up to them, we
do not charge but we know that this Widespread that 10% of children will have seen it by the age of nine.
Unfortunately it is the guide that many young people used to learn about sex. That is why I am worried non-fatal strangulation has been fined to be rife on pornographic
websites. It is influencing behaviour of young men who are non- consensually strangling young women
during sexual intercourse. Polling has suggested 70% of 16-34 year old had been strangled without giving
had been strangled without giving
consent during consensual sex. We are calling for this misogynistic act to be banned in online
Experts are warning there is no way to strangle somebody without risk given that blood and airflow may
both be restricted.
A person can become unconscious within 10 seconds of being choked and within 70 seconds they could have a seizure
due to lack of oxygen and death could occur within 150 seconds of being rendered unconscious. Almost
20% of the women killed in the UK since 2014 were strangled by an intimate partner. Perpetrators who choke partners are seven times more
likely to kill them. It is alarming and I'm sure the Minister will agree that it is alarming to hear reports
of young men seeking advice on how they can safely strangle their partner in bed or that girls are expected to settle for this kind of
behaviour.
A report last year which the Minister might have heard was of
a draft guidance from a local
Changing for a sex education class.
Strangling your partner in bed is not safe. It can be a precursor to
coercive, abusive behaviour. The government would like to send the signal as well because in February they said in response to an
independent review commissioned by the previous government, it said the government would take urgent action to make sure pornography platforms, law enforcement and prosecutors take
all necessary steps to tackle this increasingly prevalent harm stop I
urge the Minister today to support
this clause, 121.
It is one of the necessary steps that was referred to
in the response and we need to back the amendment, ban this practice,
and send out the strong message that depicting non-fatal strangulation in pornography normalises something
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safe. I rise to speak to new clause 155
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I rise to speak to new clause 155 in the name of my honourable friend the Member for Bolton West and supported by the APPG on Down
15:30
Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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supported by the APPG on Down syndrome. I welcome the bill for its clear strategy to tackle antisocial
behaviour and crime stop if we want
Safer Streets we must step up efforts to tackle financial and
economic crime and that is what this amendment is aiming to do, supported by at least 30 members on all sides
of the House. This is now the most commonly experienced crime in the
UK, accounting for more than 40% of reported incidents and yet we invest
0.05% of GDP in enforcement which is
not sustainable.
These crimes are not without victims. They erode public trust. Exploit financial institutions. Hollow out high
streets and communities. In my
constituency of Kensington Bayswater, from Earls Court Rd down to Queensway, Notting Hill Gate,
Portobello Road, residents and business owners are fed up with the proliferation of cash intensive businesses such as low-grade
souvenir shops, and barbershops and
these are more than just eyesores. I hear persistent concerns about the
VAT evasion and even troubling links to serious organised and money
laundering.
I was encouraged by a crackdown on barbershops suspected of laundering criminal funding earlier this year. I take this
opportunity to put on record my
thanks to the leadership of this operation, the serious fraud office and front rank staff for engaging
closely with the APPG. They are doing excellent work but they cannot
tackle this alone. We need proper cross government coordination and
cross government coordination and
New clause 155 would require the government to assassinate economic crime fighting fund. This would be a
pulled fund financed by a share of the assets already recovered through
enforcement.
That is confiscation, fines and prosecution agreements. It
is not new money but money recovered by our enforcement agencies but currently returned to the Treasury
and often left and spent due to
outdated annual rules. In 2022, the NCA had to return £15 million of recovered criminal assets because it
can spend them fast enough. This is inefficient and perverse. The fund
would create a virtuous cycle, more enforcement, more recovery and greater deterrence. The SFO returns
3 pounds for every 1 pound invested.
So, this is smart economics and a compelling argument for long-term
sustainable resourcing. With the financial action task Force on the horizon, the UK needs to demonstrate
that it has the financial and technical capacity to take this
issue seriously, otherwise we risk falling behind our global partners in the fight against corruption and
illicit finance. So, I look forward to the forthcoming publication of the governance anticorruption
strategy and I value the opportunity to work closely with the anticorruption champion Baroness
Hodge in shaping this.
The Foreign Secretary is also rights to make it his mission to position the UK as
the global capital of anticorruption and the commitment to a summit on
financial crime next year. So, that ambition is clear, but we now must match it with resources, coordination, and reform. I would
like to briefly highlight an area where this bill makes a real difference on end C5 which was
referenced by the honourable memo
for Chingford and Woodford Green. Many residents in Kensington and Bayswater have contacted me about the dangerous and antisocial use of
illegally modified E bikes, especially by delivery drivers which include speeding, reckless pavement
riding an off-road use.
I am a cyclist, not a motorcyclist, and I support active travel and safe
cycling, but what we are seeing is dangerous and residents have had enough. So I'm really glad that this
bill gives the police the power to act, to seize and destroy illegally modified bikes within 48-hour is
building on powers already in place in the police format, and I thank
the Minister for confirmation to me recently that delivery E bikes will be covered under these new
provisions and for taking into account the concerns of my
community.
I hope the Minister will look kindly on our request for support for sustainably funding the
fight against economic crime.
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Thank you. I rise to speak in support of LibDem new clauses 83, 84, 85 and 86 which have been tabled
84, 85 and 86 which have been tabled in the rise of my honourable friend for Hazel Grove. I also commend my
for Hazel Grove. I also commend my gallant friend from Tunbridge Wells
15:35
Ben Maguire MP (North Cornwall, Liberal Democrat)
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gallant friend from Tunbridge Wells on his new clause 43. Presenting one of the most rural constituencies in
the UK, I know just how deeply Rural Crime Bill fax my constituents lives and livelihoods and I'm not talking just about the occasional petty
theft of property. The problem we face is calculated, organised crime, and it is devastating north because
farmers, small businesses, and entire communities in our rural areas. Take the farmer who lost over
£3000 worth of tools and equipment in a single night.
Although farming
couple who had to have their quad bike stolen worth £15,000. In this
case, the police didn't even arrive until three days later and to this day, the couple haven't heard
anything more. Not to blame our hard-working consuls who are
stretched to breaking point. It's no wonder that 86% of countryside residents say Rural Crime Bill is
harming their mental well-being and these are not isolated incidents. They are part of a growing pattern,
one that successive governments have allowed to thrive under their watch.
That's why NCAT three would finally extend the equipment theft prevention act 2023 to cover GPS units which currently are the most
commonly spent pieces of farm tech.
NCAT/dedicated rural time cask force can, something we on these benches
have long campaigned for working in Scotland and working in a handful of regional police forces so it is time
that the government develop and roll out a properly funded and equipped
task force nationwide. I'm pleased that, after years of pressure from
myself and my LibDem colleagues, the government has now finally announced they will be committing to a full
rural crimes strategy and I hope the Minister can update this house on the timing of that.
But strategy
alone won't stop theft. It must come with proper enforcement. That is why
NCAT five and NCAT six matter. They would guarantee minimal levels of
policing and ensure every local authority area has offices exclusively dedicated to community- based work. In Cornwall, the police
are doing all they can but when the
force gets left money per head than
anywhere else in England, it is not enough. Offices are overstretched and underfunded. We need boots on the ground with officers to
understand the rural landscapes they are serving.
That is why I urge the house to back these amendments. For
the tradesmen who lost their tools, the farmers who have lost their machinery and vehicles, and for every rural community that has lost
faith that justice will ever be
done. Separate clauses 87 and 88 which would make it a criminal offence for water companies to
breach pollution commitments, and hold senior executives personally liable for their failures. In North
Cornwall, my constituents living with the consequences of systematic
pollution for profit.
In 2024, south-west water issue more than
3000 sewage alerts in its region including 540 during the official bathing season, and a staggering
2600 outside of it. This is a routine and quite preventable environmental harm. South-west water
pleasure significant real juice it sewage discharges, but freedom information request show that they
have increased their discharges by a shocking five times last year versus
the previous year. And the human cost of this is real. In with myth
Bay, my constituent became L after
playing on the beach.
A friend's child suffered similar symptoms and I was contacting one of my surgeries
a few weeks ago by teenage girls surfing in Harlan Bay who required
hospital admission. I dealt with residents reporting brown water
coming from the tap. The results of cracks that bear down reservoir due to the lack of maintenance. Many have no water for days and the
compensation from south-west water,
£50 per household. And yet the leadership behind these constant and shocking failures continue to be
rewarded.
The Chief Executive of the group who own south-west water was
group who own south-west water was
paid a total of £860,000 in 2024, a small increase of 300,000 from the
year before. Our beaches, rivers and families are being failed and let down, especially by the last
Conservative government, and now by this government which is why these
new clauses offer a clear message.
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Thank you. On 30 April 1999, three nail bombs went off in London
three nail bombs went off in London killing four and injuring 140. One
killing four and injuring 140. One of them exploded at brick Lane, the hub of London's Bengali community. One of them exploded in Soho at the
One of them exploded in Soho at the Adml Duncan pub, the heart of London's gay district, and one of them exploded in Brixton, an attack
15:40
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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them exploded in Brixton, an attack on South London's black community. The Sikh terrorist who committed these evil acts was motivated by
hatred. He hated Bengalis and black people because of their race and hated LGBT people because of who
they love and how they live their lives. He hated these groups because they were different from him. He
hated them because of who they are. I raise this appalling incident to remind this house that hatred comes
remind this house that hatred comes
in many forms but that whoever in our society it is against, we must all stand as strongly against it.
We
must have hate crime laws that show that whatever it is your race or religion, your sexual orientation or
your gender identity or your disability, that Britain is a
country that will not tolerate it. That all hatred is equal, that all
who commit vile acts of hatred will face the same grave consequences. But I regret to say that is not
currently the case. Today, the law recognises five categories of hate crime, race, religion, sexual
orientation, transgender identity and disability, but only two, race and religion are treated as
aggravated offences with stronger sentencing powers.
The other three are not. That discrepancy cannot be
right. We cannot as a society say
that some forms of hatred are more
evil than others. I was at university when section 28 was released. I remember it vividly. It
was more than the law but an attack on the right of people like me to live openly. It stigmatised
lesbians, gays and bisexual people and pushed us out of public life. I got into politics to fight that law,
and everything it represented.
Hate corrodes our entire society. It
doesn't just harm the individuals who are targeted but creates fear to go outside, to speak up, to be seen.
It silences people and makes us all afraid. Research by Stonewall found
that less than half of LGBT people feel safe holding their partner's
hand in public. That is the impact of the fear of hatred having on people. It makes them afraid to even
show the world that they exist. Unfortunately, far too many recorded crimes are never charged.
11,000
disability hate crimes recorded by police, 320 prosecuted. 22,000
homophobic hate crimes, 3118
prosecuted. 4000 hate crimes against transgender people, only 137
prosecuted. Behind the statistics is a real person who scars may heal on
the outside but who may never recover from the fear and trauma
that they have suffered. In 2024, a teenage far right extremist was
jailed for targeting and attacking a transgender woman along with another young man, they kicked out of the
ground in a park in Swansea and held transphobic abuse at her.
In 2022,
Cassie, a PhD student and wheelchair user, was waiting outside a shop
went to drunk man grabbed her wheelchair, pushed her down the road and made sexual comments. She had to
escape by rolling into traffic. We
must face this hatred and make sure we show that we will not stick with the status quo. The victims of these
attacks deserve to live in a society that says we take this hatred seriously and we will not stand for
it.
Victims must be at the heart of our criminal justice system. We must make sure that laws protect them.
That is why my amendment is so important. LGBT and disabled people
tell me that they don't feel safe,
not like they used to. We are seeing rising transphobia everywhere, pride flags taken down at county halls, some politicians openly questioning
whether disabilities are even real. I'm proud that in our manifesto,
Labour committed to equalising our hate crime laws by making hate crimes against LGBT people and disabled people aggravated offences.
I'm proud to be bringing forward that change through this amendment
today. I hope I can encourage all my parliamentary colleagues to support
new clause 122 today and make this important step forward for equal rights. I thank my honourable
friends, the member for Burton and Uttoxeter and for Penistone and Stockbridge for standing shoulder to
shoulder with me throughout this process. I urge you to support this
process. I urge you to support this
15:45
Mr Peter Bedford MP (Mid Leicestershire, Conservative)
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As MPs we receive wide range of correspondence during some of the most difficult times in their lives.
The email I received from Emma Johnson was perhaps one of the most harrowing I have ever received. As
15:46
Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)
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per her story I have tabled new clause 51 and speak in support
15:46
Mr Peter Bedford MP (Mid Leicestershire, Conservative)
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clause 51 and speak in support today. In November 2022 she had gone into labour with her youngest child.
into labour with her youngest child. Mother and child were OK, when she received a call that her parents had been tragically killed in a car
been tragically killed in a car crash. The driver of the other vehicle had no licence and was uninsured. On what was supposed to be one of the happiest days of
be one of the happiest days of Emma's life, she instead had to identify the bodies of her parents,
identify the bodies of her parents, Ian and Gail.
When the case came to court, the driver of the other vehicle was charged with the lesser
vehicle was charged with the lesser offence of causing death by careless driving rather than by dangerous
driving rather than by dangerous driving. This reduced the sentence available to the courts, even though
available to the courts, even though he was swerving in and out of traffic, and drove without a licence being insured. I put it to this
being insured. I put it to this House that despite very nature is dangerous.
Since this verdict, Emma
dangerous. Since this verdict, Emma has been fighting, not for vengeance, but to make sure that no
vengeance, but to make sure that no other family has to suffer the injustice that she has. Justice not just for her parents but for other
just for her parents but for other people who face the same heartbreak. She is calling for a simple but
vital change. Any driver who kills while driving without a licence or insurance should automatically face the more serious offence of causing
death by dangerous driving.
Today I want to say to Emma directly when I was watching, I fundamentally agree with you. Your dedication to the
cause is commendable, you are doing your late parents proud. We know
that road accidents happen. When someone wilfully gets behind the
wheel of a car, unlicensed, and uninsured, swerving in and out of vehicles, it is not an accident, but
a dangerous choice to put the lives of others at risk. This new clause would rightly treat such behaviour
as seriously as it is, and as serious as driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
It
will close a loophole in the current law and bring greater justice to
victims. If this amendment does not progress today, can I ask the government minister to meet with
myself and Emma to ensure that her campaign continues.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak in support of new
15:48
Mary Kelly Foy MP (City of Durham, Labour)
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rise to speak in support of new clause 25 in the name of my honourable friend for Hammersmith
and Chiswick, which seeks to repeal unnecessary and arbitrary police
powers introduced via the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act
2022. Which introduced a new criminal offence with the power to seize the homes of gypsy and travel
of families, to find, rest, and in
prison. The powers contained within part four of the act of had a
devastating impact on gypsy and Iris Traveller communities.
And on a
culture that is not only centuries- old but also protected by law. The
government has a legal and moral duty to facilitate this way of life,
not to legislate it out of existence. As we heard earlier from
my honourable Friend, in May 2024, the High Court found certain
provisions in part four of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act to be incompatible with the
Human Rights Act. Which the government have so far failed to meaningfully respond to, let alone
meaningfully respond to, let alone
correct.
In issuing the declaration of incompatibility, the High Court recognised the lack of transit
provisions across England on which gypsy and traveller families can
stop. And the subsequent impact that these powers have on gypsy and
travel of families. If there is any doubt in people's minds as to the state of transit provision in England, I refer to the research
published by friends, families, and travellers this year, which found
that 90% of the 362 local authorities have no transit
provision at all.
Notably, the introduction of the powers has a
chilling effect on communities fears of being targeted and sanctioned. I
will share the words of someone from the community who has been directly
impacted by these powers, which highlight the human consequences of
these laws. This law adds to the knock-on effects we face daily, with
access to healthcare and education. Being moved on constantly has been
detrimental to my health. As sometimes I have to drive over 100 miles to see a GP, I could be made a
criminal and lose my home.
All because I have never known any
different. " It is painfully obvious that what we need to do is not criminal sanctions for those
families who have nowhere to stop. The answer is of course to create
laws which ensure there are enough places for people to stop which I might add the Planning and Infrastructure Bill provides the
perfect opportunity. As I stand here today during Gypsy, Roma and
Traveller history month, I urge the
government not to delay further.
Let us repeal part four of the PCSCA through this Crime and Policing
Bill, and take a meaningful step towards justice, inclusion, and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
respect for all communities. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to start wiping tribute
would like to start wiping tribute to someone who is in the gallery today and has been campaigning for a
today and has been campaigning for a change in the law during the 12 month limitation period for historic
15:51
Liz Jarvis MP (Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat)
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month limitation period for historic
cases of rape for 15 year old girls when they occurred before 2004. It can take years for victims of abuse to come forward. Baroness Kennedy
tailored amendments to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act bill in the other place which sought to close this loophole. But they
were not taken forward by the previous government. That is why I
have tabled new clause 160. I hope all survivors of this terrible crime will get the closure and justice
they deserve.
I am supporting several amendments today including
amendment nine, tabled by the honourable member of Rotherham. I
recently met with a constituent who is ex-partner was convicted of sexual communication with a child
and put on the sex offenders register. He was then allowed to changes name. Understandably my
constituent was horrified to learn that he could take on a new identity and other women might not be aware.
This amendment will stop defendants avoiding measures which are important for public safety. As well as assuring victims that
perpetrators cannot dodge the consequences of their actions.
I'm also supporting clauses 85 to 88,
new clause 121 and 122. In addition
I support new clause 120 tabled by my honourable friend member for Esher and Walton, it will strengthen
protections for emergency workers by addressing eight motivated offences committed in private dwellings was
done no one doing their job to protect others should face abuse. Whether on the street or in
someone's home, hate fuelled tax on those who serve the public must be prosecuted with the seriousness they
warrant.
Finally, I'd like to thank
my honourable friend, the member for Tunbridge Wells, for tabling clause 43 it would ensure the government implements the sex-based harassment
public act 2023. No one should have
to put up with sexual harassment and this change in the law is long overdue.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak to amendments 103, 104, and 105. I would like to thank
15:54
Jess Asato MP (Lowestoft, Labour)
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104, and 105. I would like to thank my honourable friend the member for Pontypridd for engagement on issues I'm about to discuss. I will also
pay tribute to the APPG on commercial sexual exportation, to
cease all exportation and to Barnado's for their support in Tackling Violence Against Women and
children. My amendments reflect the recommendations of a thorough recent
review conducted by a noble Baroness into online pornography. I am so
proud that this Labour government has made equipment to Har violence against women and girls.
I truly believe that regulating violent
online pornography which is viewed by nearly 40% of men once a week in the UK will make a clear impact on
that commitment. As the honourable member for Gosport has already
argued, sexual strangulation is one of the most frequently found acts
across all categories on mainstream pornography sites. Despite its dangers, it is portrayed as a safe and normal part of sex. In a Google
search, a company founded 30 million videos immediately for choking porn.
The story of Hannah is that she met her killer, James Norton, on the day
she died.
He was reported as being obsessed with strangulation, frequently watching porn featuring
strangulation of women. Although the judge said he had strangled Hannah
without warning or permission, he claimed he began to lightly strangle her before more forcefully strangling her. Women and girls
paying the price of both the industry that seeks to profit from
the most violent kinds of content, as well as laws that are not fit for purpose. Despite the clear evidence of a direct connection between
viewing's regulation content in pornography and undertaking such
acts, the law will only intervene in the removal of this type of pornographic content if the threshold of life threatening is
clearly met.
My amendment NC102
would ban pornographic content with any stagnation. It would place a duty on platforms to remove regulation videos or face action. It
is clear that we need stronger
regulation. Off-line, we have been regulating pornographic content since 1984, which specifically
limits off-line content to the British Board of Film Classification and what they would find unsuitable.
Yet our online regulation has not kept pace. Particular concern is content that depict sexual activity
with children. Teen or incest porn, it contains young -looking performers made to look under age
through props such as stuffed toys, lollipops, and school uniforms.
This normalises children as objects of sexual desire and drive this demand
for child sexual material. Similarly, pornography abuses of got round the ban on incest material by
promoting porn vehicles in which
there is step incest. In a society where many of us have blended families it is not right that stepdaughter pornography is illegal
no matter if the act is over 18. My amendment would ensure it is illegal
off-line and online. We must also ensure that all illegal pornographic
content regular to equally online regardless of where that content is
hosted.
The Online Safety Act has illegal content that only applies to pornography websites that host user-to-user interactions or user
generated content. Pornography
websites that only host commercially produced pornography are exempt from legal duties. We must not allow this to continue. My amendment will ensure that all pornography sites
must adhere to a legal content duty. Finally it is important river that
the acts of sexual violence I spoke about our perpetrated against real women and girls. This is not acting
or performing. Women are often forced or coerced into this industry, and once in it, even the most famous pornography performers
are exploited.
For example, Kate was traffic from the UK to the pornography industry in America, she suffered horrendous abuse, was
forced to take part in dangerous and degrading sex acts on film. The consequences of what she did stayed
with her despite escaping the
industry. The truth is there is no way of knowing if the women were appearing pornography have given their consent or if they are even
their consent or if they are even
adults. My amendment NC 105 means pornography websites must verify the age and consent of every individual who features and allow individuals
to withdraw consent at any time.
I look forward to working with the
government and colleagues across the House to ensure we tackle the harmful impact made by this multibillion pound industry. Thank you.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak to new clause 123, an
rise to speak to new clause 123, an amendment from my honourable friend.
I have to say I'm surprised I'm having to speak to this today. I
15:59
Saqib Bhatti MP (Meriden and Solihull East, Conservative)
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having to speak to this today. I applaud the, I implored Mr to give due consideration to this clause not
least because it was pushed on a cross-party basis in the last Parliament by Baroness Harman. In
fact on the date was pushed I think she was away due to a personal
matter. It was pushed by the member for Yardley who is of course now the
Minister for Safeguarding and the Minister for violence against women and girls. In many ways, the
Minister will know this concerns the
direct constituent of mine.
I will speak to her experience but I would
encourage her to give due consideration, and maybe in her remarks if the amendment is not
taken up, she can clarify why there is delay in taking it up. This was
well on its way so I would be curious to know. But this amendment
seeks to remove the parental rights of convicted sex offenders. It is
unconscionable to my constituents that children could be subject to
living with the sex offenders because that sex offender is their
parent.
And it is reprehensible that the law currently allows for that to
happen. And it allows convicted criminals who have committed the most heinous crimes to exploit the law. It puts vulnerable children at
risk. I right honourable Friend was generous to me about this amendment
but the truth is, it is my constituents who have driven this. I
constituents who have driven this. I
remember the first time the constituent, her parents when they first came to see me and the sheer,
I don't know as a father if I was in their position if I would be able to keep my composure in the way that
they did.
I did the honest way they spoke about it. And they continue to
The other experience I had was in
the gallery up there where I could see the sheer joy of their
constituents, and when the Beckham's daughter father was banned from
future contracts from children, he was not banned from contacting his own child, and this amendment could
stop that. It would give Bethan and others the assurances that she needs
to know, that her child will not be contacted by a convicted paedophile, and I'm sure the Minister agrees,
very capable minister and good person, but no parent should have to
go through this.
It languishes a lot of parents who don't have that
clarity. A further importance on
this case is that Bethan had to fund the case herself, so there are those
without legal aid, and to be able to
restrict the parental rights. That is not something that every parent will be able to achieve, and the most paramount consideration is the
safeguarding of the child and protecting the innocent victims, but
of course, it should certainly not be available to those who can afford
it.
The new clause was championed by
the member for Yardley, and I have a quote warehouse can individual be considered too detailed to work with
or be around other people yet have the responsibility in a child's life
so long as the child is Tyrone. I don't think that is a controversial statement to make, so I really would
ask the Minister to give this amendment due consideration. It is clearly something that is very
important to me in my constituency, and if it doesn't go through today, I will be pushing numerous debates
on this and bringing in a Private Member's Bill on this.
When I spoke
to Bethan's family, they talked about how devastated they were that
this wasn't going forward, and I hope the Minister will recognise the anguish this delay is causing.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I rise to support
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I rise to support amendments to new clause 50 and 60 in my name. These amendments will seek to address two specific but
seek to address two specific but crucial failings in the current road
16:03
Will Stone MP (Swindon North, Labour)
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crucial failings in the current road clause, the absence of driving without having held a licence, and insufficient consequences for people who failed to stop after an
incident. These amendments are in honour of Kerry Barker, a much loved 14-year-old whose life was
tragically cut short on 24 November 2022 on his way to school. I engaged
with the family and this is truly devastating for them to have lost
their child at such an early point
in his life. I extend my deepest in the two his parents and I admire their courage for seeking change in their grief.
The driver who killed
Harriet had no insurance and did not
stop, yet shockingly, all charges were dropped. The police and the Crown Prosecution Service followed the law but that is the very issue.
That is why I am here. The law does
not recognise the gravity of these events and were committed by someone who shouldn't be behind the wheel in
the first place. This is why I have
brought forward these two amendments. New clause 15 on unlicensed drivers would amend section 87 to introduce tough
penalties for individuals who have never held a licence.
A new clause
16 on the offence would amend the
act to allow thoughts to allow a custodial sentence and disqualification for driving up to 2
years. And more importantly, it would allow the courts to impose any
combination of those penalties. No law can bring Harry back. No sentence will ease the pain of the family and friends. These amendments
are about restoring the balance in sending a clear message. If you choose to drive without a licence,
if you run from the scene of a crash, there will be real
consequences.
I appreciate these amendments may not go forward, but I would ask that the government take
them seriously with the strategy and I hope we can push this forward in the future. Thank you.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I rise to speak to the amendment
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I rise to speak to the amendment in my name, new clause 156. I bring this amendment forward today because of Isabella. Isabella is a 14-year-
of Isabella. Isabella is a 14-year- old girl. She lives in my constituency and in May this year,
constituency and in May this year, Isabella was hanging out with friends in line Regis when she was lured to the cemetery for a group of
lured to the cemetery for a group of young people were waiting. One of them had their phone out was already filming her arrival.
Moments later,
filming her arrival. Moments later, another girl launched a brutal assault. I had was smashed against
16:06
Edward Morello MP (West Dorset, Liberal Democrat)
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assault. I had was smashed against the concrete step. She was stamped on, she was kicked in the face again and again. While Isabella was being
attacked, no one stopped to help. Instead they stood by and filmed. They laughed and they demanded to be
sent the video. The attack was premeditated but so too was the filming. The recording began before
Isabella even arrived. It was not taken to provide evidence or to
expose wrongdoing but was taken deliberately in order to broadcast her humiliation and glorify the
violence.
I have seen this video and it is horrific. Isabella's mother has seen this video. Her friends
have seen this video. Hundreds possibly thousands of people have
seen this video because it was intentionally and maliciously
circulated on social media and in private WhatsApp groups in schools
across west Dorset. Children who do not even know Isabella saw her brutal attack play out on their
phones. The violence didn't stop the attack. It was shared, forwarded, replayed, whispered about.
Isabella's attacker was charged with bodily hard and received anger
management classes and six months restraining order.
A six-month restraining order. This was bad enough but the people who filmed it
walked away entirely unpunished. The
filming started before the attack occurred was that they knew the attack was coming, they plan to film
it and they proceeded to share the video while laughing. They did not walk away unpunished because there
was no proof of what they did. The video was the proof. But because our
law does not yet recognise this specific premeditated deeply harmful behaviour as the offence should be.
That is why I believe new clause 156
is so important. It seeks to create a specific defence of premeditated
filming and distribution of violent acts with the intent to humiliate,
distress, and psychologically harm the victims. It recognises what to many families already know, that
this is not about kick delivered but the deliberate choice to film violence, to broadcast it, to
humiliate the victim repeatedly for an audience that grows with every
share, every click, every message. We are not talking about evidence or
journalism, about someone capturing
wrongdoing.
It makes it very clear that there is an explicit safeguarding this amendment to protect public interest journalism being used as evidence, where
somebody willingly knows an attack to amplify the victims humiliation,
that behaviour faces the consequences. Isabella's case is not
**** Possible New Speaker ****
an isolated one. He is speaking with great passion
**** Possible New Speaker ****
He is speaking with great passion about his constituent. Yesterday, I
about his constituent. Yesterday, I held a roundtable with parents and my constituents talking about mobile
my constituents talking about mobile phone use in schools. One of the parents was a GP and she spoke about how children who have been subject
how children who have been subject to these attacks have come to her surgery say that they're contemplating suicide because of
contemplating suicide because of what they faced. So she agreed that this goes way beyond humiliation go to some of the worst kinds of mental
**** Possible New Speaker ****
to some of the worst kinds of mental health problems that young people could face? I agree that the lasting
psychological damage is something we cannot fully understand especially
as this is a growing problem. I received further letters from other people telling me about similar incidents that happened in other towns and playgrounds, and this
towns and playgrounds, and this
problem is rising. 2024 survey said that many people saw real-world violence online in the past year and
violence online in the past year and most of that footage was involving young people.
This is happening in our communities right now and the
our communities right now and the law is failing to keep pace. Our children face normal pressures from
social media from online buddy and, from apps designed to expose them to
content far beyond the years. As parents, we do our best to protect them but we have a duty to put
deterrents in place where social media companies have failed us. We have a duty to send a clear message
that this behaviour is unacceptable.
It is dangerous and will not go
unpunished. I will leave you with the words of Isabella's mother Sarah. I have to live with the flashbacks of watching my daughter
being beaten. But I also have to live with knowledge that this video will be forever available on social
media. On behalf of Sarah, on behalf of Isabella, I hope the government
will support a change to the law to something positive coming from the
experience.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I pay tribute to the speech that we have just heard the
speech that we have just heard the member from West Dorset. He is such a powerful advocate for the horrific
16:11
Anneliese Midgley MP (Knowsley, Labour)
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a powerful advocate for the horrific things that happen to his constituents. I rise to speak in
support of new clause 48 which stands in my name. A create a new
stand-alone offence, a delivery worker, before I begin, I want to refer members to make register of
interests as a member of the GMB.
Delivery workers are vital to our local economies. They link shops with homes, cafe's with customers, communities with each other and they
help to keep our High Street alive but too often, they are abused, assaulted or attacked just for doing
their job.
Woolston has been
verbally abused and threatened with violence on people's doorsteps for asking for ID when delivering
alcohol. As the law requires him to. Or Emiliano. She has been riding in
Kent since 2018. She has had to motorbike stolen and has been
pelted. And sometimes it is far
worse. Claudia, Carol Condor was an Amazon delivery driver. He was killed in Leeds last year. The thief
jumped into his van while he was
delivering parcels. Claudia tried to stop him for topic land the vehicle
for half a mile pleading for the thief to stop.
He was deliberately knocked off and killed. He bought
that band just three weeks earlier. He was trying to protect his livelihood and instead, he lost his
life. No one should leave home to go
to work and not come back. These are just a few stories but they are not
isolated. The trade union has found
that 77% of delivery workers for major retailers like Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda, cardo, Morrisons,
Iceland have been a victim of abuse in the last year.
1/4 have turned
down deliveries because they feared for their safety. And 13% have them
physically assaulted. And this is happening during an academic of retail crime. Shoplifting has nearly
doubled since the pandemic and rose by 23% last year alone. In-store
retail staff also faced absolutely
shocking abuse, and I welcome the Labour government's commitment to protect retail workers with the stand-alone offence, something that
through the freedom from fear campaign has campaigned and fought
for four years.
It is the right move because nobody should feel unsafe or face abuse, verbal or physical just
for doing their work. But delivery workers are on the frontline as well. They work alone, often at
night. They are public facing and can be vulnerable, and when things
go wrong, missing item, a delay, the wrong order, they are the ones who
face the backlash. Too often frustration turns into abuse,
violence, or worse. They deserve the same protection that this government is rightly offering to staff in
stores.
And when Parliament places extra responsibilities and delivery workers to police much-needed Lords
on age verification, Parliament should legislate to provide additional protections for them. And
this is backed by the GMB union, delivery, the British Retail
Consortium and UK hospitality trade bodies and trade unions campaigning
together because they know the reality. They see what delivery
workers face every day. And since the COVID pandemic, delivery riders
have become a part of the fabric of our daily lives, how we shop and
rely on them.
So while my amendment today will not be pushed to a vote,
I would like to press the Labour government to meet with me, the unions, trade bodies and employers
to look a new clause 48 in more detail.
16:15
Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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I wish to speak today about new clauses 84, 85 and 86 and return to the issue of policing and police
funding. New clause 86 sees the Lib Dems seek to address the government
recently announced policing plan. It plans to recruit an additional 30,000 police officers, a figure
that does not stack up. I spoke last week on Westminster Hall about the discrepancies in the pledge, the
lack of clarity around the baseline figure, the fuzziness around their 3000 officers transfer from other
roles determined to implement it, the fact that the officers over
counted as being a neighbourhood roles by police forces in England and means that 3000 officers the
government has announced is all but net neutral in terms of police officers, an increase of just 389
officers once the adjustment was
officers once the adjustment was
New clause 86 misunderstands this.
It makes no reference to decision-
making responsibilities, much of the government has stability to the redeposit of 3000 officers without expending how aware. New clause 86
states that the Home Office must publish proposals detailing the extra funding that will be required to ensure police officers can meet
these requirements without reducing officer numbers on the front line. It fails to stipulate that funding
is inequitable in the first instance. I've spoken at length regarding the allocation and I would
ask the Liberal Democrats and if
they would join me in giving cause for the policing minister to make sure the base allocation of the four
Miller is updated to reflect the population increase and distribution that has occurred and the formula was first introduced.
I am aware
that the Policing Minister stated on 5 June that there is a White Paper
coming in the next few months. I want to make clear that within that there will have to be discussion about finances and resources for
policing force I welcome the discussion and I know that the Policing Minister will if nothing else speak keen to address my
priorities if only to get me off
their back. New clause 85 mentions funding in the context of minimum levels of policing.
The Liberal Democrats asked for every police
force in England and Wales to maintain neighbourhood policing teams at a level necessary to ensure
effective community engagement with crime prevention. But who is to place that level? Is it at the discretion of the Chief Constable,
the police crime Commissioner, the metro mayor, the policing list, or the Home Secretary? Furthermore, a ring fenced allocation of 20% would
hamper the flexibility of operation budgets and we should be allowing them the freedom of operations with
the arbiters of how the resources may be employed most effectively.
Lastly you clause 84 is an area that appears to have been overlooked by the government in their recent
announcements. The National rural unit will look at this, it was established under the last
government in 2023 and has been established with cultural machinery and vehicles worth over £10 million. There's also coordinated UK-wide
responses to arrest as well as
organised crime groups. Temperatures rural action team punches above its weight. Last year it recovered almost £1 million of stolen property, seized 163 vehicles used
in crime, attended more than 1700 incidents and prosecuted 83 suspects.
They work closely with the National rural but they are
underfunded and resourced. Cambridge is a large county with the difficult
rural areas. And they rely on a small team of officers to take on machinery theft and real danger of
organised crime, an issue which needs to be tackled. The government
neighbourhood policing plan losses over the need for greater police
presence in the communities. In my constituency there are dozens of villages that will in theory have a
named officer.
How that prevent
someone take your vehicle at 3 AM on isolated farm? The government has talked a good game but the strategy has holes all over it. And senior
police officers have repeatedly raised concerns about the Police Allocation Formula remaining
unchanged. On the last point I expect the forthcoming White Paper to address the changes I have
repeatedly and consistently called for and for Cambridge Constabulary to be funded fairly and the officers to be properly resourced.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak to new clause 44,
rise to speak to new clause 44, otherwise known as a law tabled on
otherwise known as a law tabled on behalf of an individual. I signed this on behalf of 54 Labour Conservative and Liberal Democrat
16:19
7 Kirith Entwistle MP (Bolton North East, Labour)
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Conservative and Liberal Democrat members. And for the opportunity to continue the work of the member for
Birmingham Yardley and the member of the women's committee which I'm proud to be a member. She was a
young woman and was murdered by her father and five male cousins in an
honour killing. Her crime was to leave an abusive husband who she had
reported for rape. Leaving she had brought shame and dishonour upon the
family, the community was chillingly called a council of war.
Her body
was found months later buried in a suitcase in the back garden in
Birmingham. This horrific incident did not begin with her mother. She
went to the police five times. She reported rape, she named her abusers, she predict her own death. Still her cries for help were
dismissed. An investigation of the independent lease complaints commission to the handling of the
case later found to pull serious
failings. This was not only a family crime, it was a community crime.
Please estimate that as many as 50 men were involved in plotting the
men were involved in plotting the
murder, covering it up, or encouraging the honour narrative. Her uncle called her death justice will stop others called him a hero.
Her case was not unique. Other
cases, all women subject to honour- based abuse. The Domestic Abuse
Commissioner estimates that around 12 honour killings take place in the
UK every year. More than 7000 incidents of honour-based incidents are recorded annually.
The true
scale is almost certainly greater. What I fully support the importance that this bill takes to tackle violence against women and girls, I
am concerned by insufficient focus on honour-based abuse. I'm grateful
to the Minister for Victims for taking the time to meet with me. However, I must stress that this
does not adequately content with these issues and is not sufficiently
capable of yielding change. My amendment course for honour-based
abuse to be recognised in law as an
aggravating factor in sentencing.
It also calls for victim survivors who act in self defence, or under coercion after years of abuse, to
have the context recognised as mitigating factors. This amendment, statue gardens across the Criminal
Justice Bill can be given so that police, prosecutors and courts are
trained to recognise and respond to this collective form of abuse. I want to pay tribute to her sister,
the courage and tireless work have
brought us to this point. I will not be pressing my amendment to a vote today for top I hope ministers will
take the opportunity to reflect on the need to take further action against all forms of honour-based
abuse.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I think the member ran out of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
time. I remember raising the case. I come to Richard Holden. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Today I rise in support six of the
Today I rise in support six of the new clauses that go to the heart of my responsible these as legislators.
my responsible these as legislators. Safeguarding children, restoring and building confidence in law, and defending free expression. I won't be able to go into all of this. You
be able to go into all of this. You clause 45 seeks to ensure that an
16:23
Rt Hon Richard Holden MP (Basildon and Billericay, Conservative)
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clause 45 seeks to ensure that an individual under the age of 18 where they have been cautioned or convicted of a child sex is, police
must notify any organisation that the child is involved in, where they
are with other children. Or the organisation. This amendment stems from a real case in the constituency and closes a dangerous and
demonstrably harmful safeguarding loophole which I have already
discussed privately with the member for Birmingham Yardley. I hope the government will look at this as it takes this legislation through the
other place.
New clause 46 addresses
another gap in legislation. The ability to buy a car without providing any form of verified ID,
or proving you can drive. This is in
memory of Andrew Rowlands, and will make it harder for criminals and reckless drivers to use vehicles
with impunity. New clause 108 tabled
by the member for West Suffolk seeks to reaffirm the right to speak
freely about religion or belief including criticism, satire, and dissent, restoring clarity to our
public order laws.
I think it is
very closely aligned to the new clause 7 put forward by the opposition front bench today. We
need to start addressing some of these non-crime hate issues which are becoming a pernicious attack
upon freedom in our society. More broadly, it was great to hear the
member for Lowestoft speaking just before about the pornography and some of the amendments that she has
put forward. I am very supportive of
new clause 103. In fact I did some work recently with the British Board of Film Classification.
There were quite clearly major issues between
what is allowed to be broadcast age-related within traditional
broadcast settings, and what is also differently available online. We
note there is a growing body of evidence that violent abusive pornography with increased rates of sexual aggression especially towards
women and girls. I am fully in support of that and hope the
government pay attention to what the honourable member opposite is putting forward. Finally around new clause 150, relating to cousin
marriage. I rise to support this, I'm glad that the opposition front bench has put forward because I
spoke at length about this earlier on today in Westminster Hall.
This
represents the next logical step in a series of ongoing efforts to protect the vulnerable and promote
social cohesion. I've already introduced a Private Members' Bill on the marriage element of this
session, and following the
successful challenge to virginity testing. When it comes to protecting
women and men from out dated coercive and harmful practices, this House must not look the other way.
This is not about race and religion, it is about freedom, societal cohesion and health. Freedom because
consent is meaningless, where families can pressure young men into
cousin marriages they don't wish.
We must stand up for those without a voice and give them the legal
backing stop multigenerational cousin marriage often fosters huge
issues around social segregation, looking introduced into closed systems of authority. In countries like Norway and Denmark have acted
decisively, there is no excuse for us to lag behind others with
progressive credentials as well. In health because there is a real risk.
We have seen a study that has been going on for many years and found the real societal indications. We
still don't know the full side effects of multigenerational first cousin marriages as well.
We rightly
believe in racial ships where there is consent, between teachers and
pupils, doctors and patients, and the same thing applies here. This
clause is rooted in compassion not condemnation. It speaks to freedom especially for women and the courage
to legislate my silence anything that causes harm. I would like to say each of these amendments
addresses difference. Child safety, public accountancy, Freedom of Expression (Religion or Belief
System) Bill, but they are united on the principle that the law should
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protect the vulnerable, demand response avidity and preserve the freedoms which are healthy confident society depends. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to support amendment 122 brought by my honourable friend for
brought by my honourable friend for North America and Bedworth. In 2007, Fiona Pilkington drove herself and her 18-year-old daughter, Francesca
her 18-year-old daughter, Francesca Hardwick, the layby near her home. She also took the families pet
16:28
Dr Marie Tidball MP (Penistone and Stocksbridge, Labour)
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She also took the families pet rabbit to sue the daughter who had severe learning disabilities. She then set the car on fire killing
them both. An inquest two is later
heard how the family had been kept virtual prisoners in their home by youths who through Stones, flower,
and other objects, and kept up a relentless stream of abuse. At the
time, the IPCC concluded that one of the main failings of the police was
in not identifying the abuse as hate
crime.
The case prompted wider concern. Many police forces were failing to poppy identify hate crimes motivated by disability. And
thus treating them as low priority
antisocial behaviour. Something disability campaigners say too often remains the case today. I am proud
that last year our Labour manifesto
committed to championing the rights of disabled people, and to the principle of working with them so that their views and voices will be
at the heart of all we do. I support
new clause 122, tabled by my honourable friend for North America
and Bedworth.
It would implement our manifesto commitment to protect
LGBT+ and disabled people by making all existing strands of hate crime
and aggravated offence. This would finally place on a statutory footing the Law Commissions recommendations
because, as they highlighted, it is undesirable for the current law to
give the impression of a hierarchy of victims. The bill before us today
will be a powerful one in delivering the government's safer streets mission and Plan for Change. We help
to tackle the crimes that matter most to communities.
But been
ignored for too long after 14 years of the Tory dereliction on law and order. Disability hate crime is one
such example. Under the Conservatives, there was a
staggering nearly 700% increase of police recorded disability hate
police recorded disability hate
police recorded disability hate
As chair of the APPG autism, I am concerned about the impact on disabled people and those with learning disabilities. Hate crime
can wreck lives. It creates a huge mental health problem for people with learning disabilities and
autism.
People who often don't have the ability to understand or cope
with it. Those are the words of Mark Brooks, hate crime ambassador for the charity dimensions who was part
of their I'm with Sam campaign for no more learning disability and autism hate crime. Aggravated
offences currently only exist for offences involving racial or
religious hostility. The higher maximum penalties available for aggravated offences are perceived to have a more powerful symbolic and
deterrent effect. Higher maximum penalties mean aggravated offences
are often pursued in the Crown Court rather than the Magistrate's Court.
As the hate crime charity have argued, the Crown Courts are more
appropriate forum for dealing with the gravity and victim impact of hate crime offences, as well as
crown courts having superior
facilities for victims. As someone who has researched the experiences of disabled people in the criminal
justice system for over 14 years, the opportunity to legislate and strengthen the law on hate crime offences should be seized. Disabled
people in rich our society. And this
amendment to the bill before us today would foster respect and equality for all by ensuring justice
for disabled victims of hate crime.
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Thank you very much. I would like to start by demonstrating my support
16:32
Luke Taylor MP (Sutton and Cheam, Liberal Democrat)
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to start by demonstrating my support for new clauses 85 and 86 which deal with neighbourhood policing. They would ensure that police forces are required to practice community
policing at a level necessary to ensure community engagement and crime prevention. It's a shame the
member for Islington isn't in his place with the definition of that
because it would be engaging for communities, engaging to find appropriate levels in areas rather than having a top-down view which
I'm sure the gentleman would support himself. We would compel the
secretary of state to produce an annual report on the state of community policing as well, and we outline the way forward for
outlining this as well.
The future
police grants will make crime pay. We reverse the manner that it is normally used by allocating funds
recovered from the proceeds of crime
act to community policing. This is important because commitment to police numbers mean very little
without serious action to reverse the scale of forthcoming cuts like those we are about to experience in
London where we see cuts of officers and staff. As a commissioner of the Metropolitan police force, ambition
and money go alongside each other.
So, I urge members around the house
to support these aims. I turn now to my new clause 95 and it is good to
see the honourable member in her place to continue the conversation
we have had a number of times regarding stalking for it is a heinous crime that leaves victims
and life changing terror and two often goes unpunished. The current legislation forces to many victims
to meet high bar of evidence to be a perfect victim to prove the scale of
threat against them.
I've heard from constituents who have had their
lives upended by stalkers who are at their wits end after facing Sony
obstacles to justice. Two sections are at the root of these obstacles.
The distinction between section
offences are failing victims that fail to recognise the total scope of stalking. Successful prosecutions
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achieve. Would he agree with me that even
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Would he agree with me that even celebrities and people in the public I were affected by stalkers and feel
I were affected by stalkers and feel unsafe and unprotected by existing
unsafe and unprotected by existing legislation that is a clear reason that this law needs to be strengthened.
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strengthened. I thank the member for his
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I thank the member for his intervention. It does relate to a really clear visible example of how legislation is not working today, and with that additional security
and with that additional security protection around them, cannot be protected from stalkers. I am happy
protected from stalkers. I am happy with that intervention. The burden of proof means that so many victims
of proof means that so many victims withdraw from the process completely
withdraw from the process completely and give up on justice.
So my new clause would compel the secretary of state to look at these clauses
state to look at these clauses within six months to make time for it to be properly considered in this
it to be properly considered in this house on its completion. They would also compel the secretary of state to look at the adequacy of stalking
to look at the adequacy of stalking guidance provided by public bodies and makes the provisions for
consideration in this house. I know that this aim is supported by the government and by the Minister so I
would like to hear how this is being brought forward.
I move on to new
clause 43. The Minister from Tunbridge Wells said this is an
incredibly important because which
looks at the protection from sex- based harassment to Public Acts 2023 once this crime and policing Bill provides Royal assent. There is no
better reason than he has managed to corral together such luminaries in this house is the right honourable
member for Staffordshire, for
member for Staffordshire, for
I move on to new clause 134 tall
theft which we spoke about in
committee.
It would prevent a way forward for more sensible regulation
of Tempe markets were too many stolen tools are often sold. I went
to the industrial estate in my constituency where I have more about the awful impact of this kind of theft on tradespeople who are too
often left with a livelihood to act and very little proper recourse to getting a lifespan contract other
than to fork out huge amounts on new tools which later gets stolen again.
It is a horrible cycle and one that I had about to stop tall theft rally outside the steps of this chamber
this year.
This offers a good step forward but would not solve the issue because without climate
looking at community policing as I mentioned, police forces will make
to overstretched to investigate these crimes in the first place.
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I thank my friend for giving way and he talks about community
policing and police officers back into the community, so I wonder if he would support my new clause 157
he would support my new clause 157 which seeks to streamline the way that these case files are prepared and submitted to the Crown
and submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service. It is a common sense approach which gets police
sense approach which gets police back out supporting victims and building that community trust that they need.
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She has convinced me in her words
and around the house also. The Met
and around the house also. The Met police relating to groups mean that
police relating to groups mean that many tools went unsolved with this
many tools went unsolved with this new clause today. In conclusion, I would like to quickly draw attention to some other amendments. You
to some other amendments. You clauses 87 and 88 would hold water comely executives to account properly for the first time and with
properly for the first time and with Marco huge step forward in looking at the sewage crisis that we are facing.
Individual should be held
facing. Individual should be held liable in terms of raising bells and ruining our rivers. I wish I had
more time to honour these but I
refer to the contributions on the subject. The member for Bolton
provided support to victims of honour-based violence and murder.
New clause 122 would strengthen the law around hate crimes directed disabled people, LGBT+ people and
trans people and rightly seeks to help people because of their
association with individuals in
those cases.
New clause 7 or by the official opposition by contrast would weaken hate crime legislation in this country and I fear it is
motivated by a complete lack of respect for the decades of progress we have made in recognising the
types of disco nation faced by people for the length and breadth
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country. This bill must be rejected. Thank you. I refer to my register
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Thank you. I refer to my register of interest is a proud member of the trade union movement. No one should
trade union movement. No one should go to work with the uncertainty each day that their safety is put at
day that their safety is put at risk. We as a government clearly support that for emergency workers,
support that for emergency workers, and of course, legislating for
16:40
Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Labour )
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and of course, legislating for retail workers also. Clause 48 is looking at delivery workers, and
today, I stand with new clause 11 for transport workers. Every day,
transport workers face verbal abuse, sexual harassment, physical assault
worker and secondly, to extend the maximum sentence from 6 to 12 months, not least if this will now
be served in the community.
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I meant to speak to my amendment that I was superseded by the government's own movement on this
which I welcome which is closing a
loophole which is now an offence to abuse emergency workers on the grounds of race, religion or sexual orientation in somebody's private
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welling, and I congratulate the government for that. I welcome the intervention from
the member. It goes to show the extent by which our public servants
extent by which our public servants put themselves out there, often running into a place of danger on
running into a place of danger on our behalf, and of course, when people are serving us, our constituents day in, day out, they deserve the very protections that we
deserve the very protections that we aim to see within this legislation.
If we look at the scale of abuse of
transport workers, transport for London is seeing 10% of workers
London is seeing 10% of workers physically assaulted, 90% verbal
physically assaulted, 90% verbal abused, 60% experienced violence at work, and that is just in the last 18 months. Transport for London
18 months. Transport for London workers, 10,493 of them had incidents of violence or aggression
incidents of violence or aggression perpetrated against them. If we look wider, transport police highlighted
in 2024 7027 offences were
committed, and of course, just in
the last year, 7405 crimes, 3650
violent crimes.
And it is on the increase. The 47% increase since
2021. Our transport workers are not safe without more measures being
brought in to this legislation, and if it is the case that we are hearing from other groups of workers
as well, I think we need to look at the threats that workers are facing and how we put those protections in
place to ensure there are specific measures available to them to keep themselves safe, to protect them,
but also, because this is better for the public as well.
And as we look at the work that has been done, they
are women workers, 40% of transport
workers who are women have been sexually harassed in the last year, and that is on the rise as well. And
two thirds of RMT members experience abuse, violence or antisocial
behaviour. 40% however have not
reported, not confident that they will get the recourse they need. And this is impacting on them, on their
well-being and health. They can see
a twice level, double the level of PTSD and the general population.
And
that is why they are calling for legal protection for all public transport workers because of the scale, the prevalence, and of
course, moving that forward. We have
to deter perpetrators or support workers and it will improve action and response times and that support
which is available. We need only
think in this house back to COVID. A woman was spat at at Victoria
station during COVID, and sadly, she
lost her life. And she was there serving faithfully as a sales clerk during that period.
And while we
during that period. And while we
remember her, her union said the we continue to fight for safety and healthy workplaces for all of our
members. And of course, that is why I am here today, to fight for them alongside the trade unions, British
transport police, the rail industry bodies, the Rail delivery group,
Network Rail, and all of the transport unions standing together
to say they need more measures to keep workers safe in transport systems. We often hear about the
other safety risks that transport workers placed themselves in, but it
is about their own personal safety and I'm sure this house will hear that.
I'm asking for clear support
for new clause 11 but of course, I
am willing to meet with the Minister to discuss how we can advance the cause of transport workers and hope if we can't make those amendments
today, that we will be able to in
A
16:45
Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker.
Before I turned to my amendment I want to welcome new course seven.
And the amendment. This bill
presents an opportunity for the government to support my amendment, new clause 108, to protect Freedom of Expression (Religion or Belief
System) Bill. This is urgently needed because existing legislation has been manipulated to create the blasphemy law for the protection of
Islam from criticism or protest. As I said in my speech last week, I am
not a Muslim, and I reject any attempts to tell me I cannot say
what I think about any religion.
No ideas or beliefs should be above
criticism or scrutiny. The transformation of the Public Order Act 1986 which has become Britain's
de facto blasphemy law needs to be reversed. Sections 4 and five of the act are used to prosecute the
visuals for giving legitimate opinions. The law has been twisted
making the protester responsible for the potentially violent reaction of those who cannot deal with criticism of their beliefs. The introduction
of offences of religious hatred back
in 2006 raised concerns about free speech of parliamentarians across the spectrum to lead to what is now
section 29J of the Public Order Act.
The legislation states clearly,
nothing in this part should read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion,
autism, or discussions about ridicule, dislike, or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs
or practices of their adherents. This was very welcome but it only applies to part three of the act.
That is why my amendment would extend this section to the whole of the Public Order Act and to section 1 of the malicious Communications
act 1988. In section 127 of the applications Act 2003.
People from
across the country have written to me expressing support for my amendment as I introduced it in a similar form in a Ten Minute Rule
Bill last week. I want to thank
someone for support. Concerns why
safety have been expressed and have
reinforced our grave the crisis of the freedom of has become. It has been encouraging to receive cross- party support for my amendment but
I'm disappointed although not terribly surprised that not one member from the liberal Democrats
Opposition.
It is not very liberal, not very democratic and not very
appropriate for the party of Gladstone. This party political leaders in general must be braver
and more honest about how we deal with the threat to free speech and the threat of violence. We are
seeing the opposite. Ministers and I have asked questions about this have stuck to their lines to take and
think we don't have a blasphemy law in this country. Everyone knows in
effect we do. Worse, the government plans to impose a definition of Islamophobia upon us that will stop criticism of Islam and Islamic
practices, clampdown even more firmly on free speech and empower extremists or letting down the pleura lists and moderates in the
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population. I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. He is making a very
for giving way. He is making a very impassioned speech. In some ways, I do agree with elements of what he is saying. I was involved in an
saying. I was involved in an extensive discussion with humanist recently about this issue, where gentleman was persecuted for burning
gentleman was persecuted for burning the Quran and he himself wanted to express his displeasure to the
express his displeasure to the Turkish government.
The sea think it
Turkish government. The sea think it would be preferable to ensure that the law is being adhered to correctly by those who administer it
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correctly by those who administer it in the courts rather than trying to bring in an additional law that could damage religious relations? I thank her for the contribution.
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I thank her for the contribution. The point is that the courts are interpreting the law as a unit. It
interpreting the law as a unit. It is the job of us in this place, we
is the job of us in this place, we believe that needs to be corrected, to correct it through legislation. The correct way would be to extend
The correct way would be to extend 29J in the way that I described. I
29J in the way that I described.
I don't know if the Minister is allowed to intervene but she is welcome to. She has been here
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longer. We did discuss whether I was allowed to or not. I am fairly
certain in cases that I have taken of harassment and malicious
communications that cases of NT Semitism and anti-Jewish hatred have
formed part of that, in cases that I have been involved with. Is he
suggesting that criticising Jewish
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people should be allowed? Know I think she must understand my point. I was about to get onto a
my point. I was about to get onto a related issue. Which is that hating and discriminating against people on the basis that they are Muslims or
the basis that they are Muslims or indeed different religious groups is already a crime. And if one was
already a crime. And if one was harassing Jewish people in the way that the Minister just described,
that the Minister just described, that would be a criminal offence even in the circumstances that my
even in the circumstances that my amendment passed.
The Islamophobia is a made up and nonsensical concept
that aligns protection of individuals from hatred with the
individuals from hatred with the protection of ideas and beliefs. It is therefore in my view completely unacceptable in principle.
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unacceptable in principle. I thank the object went for giving way. Can I ask what he would
giving way. Can I ask what he would like me to tell the family of the 80-year-old grandfather who was stabbed simply for being Muslim?
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That was obviously an appalling crime and I remember it very well.
crime and I remember it very well. But I don't think that has anything to do with what I'm saying just now in this debate. In a free society, a
in this debate. In a free society, a pluralistic society, we have to be free to criticise ideas. The laws to
protect people we cannot have laws that protect ideas from scrutiny or criticism. The government is
pressing on with its work on Islamophobia.
Only this week on the
very day Ernest Casey said the rape gangs are often not prosecuted because of the ethnicity of the
perpetrators, ministers launched a consultation on a new Islamophobia definition. That's consultation is
open only to carefully selected invited organisations and last only
four weeks, allows contributors to remain anonymous. In other words, as
lots of people have put it to me, it is rigged, and that's quickly acceptable. Parliament repealed blasphemy laws years ago and trials
for blasphemy had stopped many decades back.
They are with us once
more, and Parliament must act to restore a Freedom of Expression
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(Religion or Belief System) Bill. I would like to express my
support for new clause 11. I declare my interest as part of the RMT and
my interest as part of the RMT and chair the RMT group. This adds to my campaign particular with regard to the rising assault on bus drivers.
16:53
Rt Hon John McDonnell MP (Hayes and Harlington, Independent)
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the rising assault on bus drivers. I'd like to add my support to new clause 13 and congratulate the
member for Riverside for the determined campaign and joint enterprising initiative, and my
support for the right to protest.
And who cannot support 122 of the speeches we have heard today. I want
to raise one particular issue which is an anomaly that has risen out of the debate out of the terrorist legislation since 2020. What that
is, I don't want to go into too much
technical detail, but section 69 subsection 3 of the Sentencing Act 2020 gives the power to the
competition service to alleged a terrorist connection in cases where
the offence either is or takes place in the course of an act of terrorism, was committed for the purposes of terrorism.
What then
happened is that the implementation
of that legislation meant that an offence that was determined to have
a terrorist connection, harsher restrictions were imposed both
within prison but on release. I believe that was cross-party support. There was no problem in
terms of that issue, but what happened is the Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Act came along in
2021. Whereas previously under the
Sentencing Act, schedule one offences were about murder kidnapping and hijacking, those things that we naturally consider as
terrorists, and this extended the
use of this definition to " Instances which are punishable on indictment prison for more than two
years.
" It's basically meant that
moving away from schedule defences, it almost brought into consideration
any offence before the Crown Court. So for example, terrorists connected
to cases is interpreted as something
that is protest cases which involves
damages over £5000. We have had those discussions around terrorism in the past, we would have problems
around definition. But the report in
2007 said one of the guards against misinterpretation of the issue is
that jury trial will be able to assist and protect us in that way.
He said jury trial provides an
important protection for prosecutions the public find unreasonable or arbitrary. The
problem is the use of this section of legislation under the Counter-
Terrorism and Sentencing Act 2021 does not involve juries. It isn't
brought before a jury, it is only applied by the judge at sentencing.
What we have found as a result of that is that since late 2024, the
provisions in this act have been deployed for the first time against
protesters.
We find someone who has
committed criminal damage, aggravated burglary, violent disorder in a protest activity
finding themselves with a terrorist connection allegation. That will never be brought before the jury
will only be applied on sentencing. Amnesty International now have
expressed their concern about direct action protests that have been
subject to the U.K.'s overly broad definition of terrorism laws, which are open to abuse. What we have had
is four UN expressing their concerns to the government about the misuse
of the terrorism legislation in this instance.
What they have said is
that this has been used against political prisoners and is raising concerns about the potential infringements of their fundamental
rights. The reason I raise it here is because there are an increasing
number of cases that are trapped by what I think is a misinterpretation
of the legislation as we brought it forward in both 2020 and 2021. It is resulting in injustices and miscarriages of justice that will
have two be addressed if we don't address it in terms of this legislation now, to correct what I
think is a crucial anomaly and a misinterpretation of what this house
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intended back in 2021. Speeches are reduced to four minutes.
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minutes. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I cannot speak to all of the
cannot speak to all of the amendments that we have worked on so hard and that I have supported many times by putting my name on them.
times by putting my name on them. The audible members themselves know that I support them. I would just run through new clause 21, new
run through new clause 21, new clause 25, new clause 13, new clause
clause 25, new clause 13, new clause 18, 10, 43, and particularly clause
16:58
Siân Berry MP (Brighton Pavilion, Green Party)
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18, 10, 43, and particularly clause 122. These are important and the government should listen. I do not support new clause 7 of the Official
Opposition and I can't support new clauses two and three as I do not believe there is any evidence that
believe there is any evidence that
these measures will help keep sex workers safer. I believe we have to respect evidence and listen to sex workers and the voices. Principally
I rise to speak to new clauses 26,
27, 109, 30, and 49.
And new clause 50 from the honourable member for
Leeds Central. New clause 26 will require the Home Office to publish
costly data looking at the number of times stop and search powers have
been used prior to orders being issued and the protective counter of six individuals who receive these
orders. This is important for
scrutiny, to make sure these powers are being exercised fairly. You clause 27 enables regulations to very much the ability for police
forces to you stop and search powers, specifically it requires the government to suspend the use of these powers were any police force
that is subject to engaged status under His Majesty's Inspectorate.
If
a force has reached the point of requiring formal processes due to systemic issues it is right that the
powers are subject to heightened scrutiny or even suspension. New clause 30 36 to prohibit the
deployment and use of certain forms of addictive policing technologies, particularly those that rely on
automotive decision making profiling in artificial intelligence, to assess the likelihood that
individuals or groups will commit criminal offences. You can see the
danger of honourable Friend was top these technologies, however clever, will always need to be built on
existing flawed police data.
And
other flawed and biased public and private resources was top this means community to have historically been over policed are going to be more
likely to be identified as at risk
As I have said, accuracy and bias
are not the only reason to be against predictive policing tools.
These technologies infringe human rights including the right to privacy and the right to be presumed
innocent. Lastly, my new clause 49 from the honourable member for Leeds
Central and Headingley works to preserve our right to protest.
I
would remove serious disruption that was put into the Public order act 2023. This new concept was extremely
broad and lead to arbitrary application and confusion with police imposing criminal sanctions
and anti-protest measures on actions that simple did not qualify. Liberty
recently went as judicial in terms of the serious disruption
regulations 2023 foot of these regulations sought to define the
phrase serious disruption and the court sided with liberty. The same
wording is in section 34 Public order act 2023, and this definition remains in force, so it is legally
confusing to leave the place and breaches our obligations under
convention rights article 10 and 11, so I urge my colleagues to support
me in this particular amendment.
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I would like to refer the house to my entry of the registry of interest and the trade union. I rise
interest and the trade union. I rise to speak in support of new clause 48 in the name of my honourable friend
in the name of my honourable friend the member for Knowles Lee. Prior to becoming an MP, I was proud to campaign for many years alongside
campaign for many years alongside retail workers as part of the freedom from fear campaign. The campaign successfully highlighted
campaign successfully highlighted the epidemic of abuse and violence
faced by retail workers and brought together workers, employers and sectoral bodies.
For years, there
has been consensus outside of this place that something needs to be
17:03
Michael Wheeler MP (Worsley and Eccles, Labour)
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place that something needs to be done, but in here, there has been no consensus. Warm words did not lead
to necessary action. The sacrifices made by retail workers were quickly
forgotten and with the latest figures and one in eight delivery drivers have been assaulted at work
in the previous 12 months, it is past time that we all remembered that retail workers are frontline
workers providing a vital service. That is why introducing a new stand-alone offence for retail
worker is so vital and so welcome.
Too many workers have suffered life
changing injuries while simply trying to enforce the law or provide a service. Upholding age restricted
sales is a key part of their role bringing with it unique challenges.
It is not a small responsibility but a legal duty that often acts as a
flashpoint for abuse. Failure to comply carry serious consequences for the worker including
disciplinary action or prosecution. We here in this chamber put this
duty on them. We hold them accountable and we need to provide protection that they deserve.
The
new stand-alone offence will provide prosecutors with better tools and send a powerful message to defenders
send a powerful message to defenders
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that abuse will not be tolerated. I thank my honourable friend for supporting this amendment and
supporting this amendment and bringing it forward with other colleagues, but would he agree with me that our hard-working delivery
drivers in the logistics sector also need that support and backing as
they often face attacks at knifepoint while delivering what our country needs.
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country needs. I welcome that intervention and I
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I welcome that intervention and I need not interrupted my speech because I am literally about to get there. New clause 48 does cover
there. New clause 48 does cover delivery workers and will create a specific offence along similar lines for them which is incredibly
for them which is incredibly welcome. These workers deserve protection just as much as in-store
protection just as much as in-store staff. They are also required to enforce law and conduct checks and this bill places additional
this bill places additional requirements on them around the delivery of knives, but unlike in-
delivery of knives, but unlike in- store staff, they do so without the safety net of colleagues, security,
safety net of colleagues, security, or familiar surroundings.
As is the case in Scotland following the 2021
case in Scotland following the 2021 protection of work apps, home delivery drivers must be included.
It is only right that delivery drivers in England and receive equal protection and that protection must
not stop on the shop floor. We should never underestimate the important contributions of retail
workers. They serve our communities, bring essentials to our doors and
they take keep the nation fed. Without them, the country would
grind to a halt.
In this bill and with new clause 48, we have the opportunity to give retail workers
the protection they so obviously deserve, and I urge honourable
members to take the opportunity and send a clear message from this place
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that abuse is not part of the job. I rise to support new clause 144
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I rise to support new clause 144 in the name of my honourable friend the member for Stockton West. On
the member for Stockton West. On Monday, the government hastily came to the house to deliver yet another
to the house to deliver yet another new turn and announce a national
new turn and announce a national enquiry into rape gangs. It is apparent that this was a forced U-
17:06
Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)
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apparent that this was a forced U- turn. This U-turn was forced on them because if anybody had ever asked
any member of the public or Parliament that they wanted a national enquiry into this, the response for the government was that
they were far right. They were jumping on a bandwagon. The way even
blowing a dog whistle. Those were the words of the Frontbench. So this
was a hasty U-turn. In fact, the
Frontbench was taken aback. It would appear the Prime Minister had appointed Baroness Black stock
hoping the whole thing would go away and that it would not happen.
In her own words, she changed her mind. The
evidence of the weight of what confronted her with so much. Her
words were I think I've surprised the members of Downing Street and
beyond. She did. The clincher was that the local enquiries were
inadequate. Because the local authorities could decide if they
were going to commission an enquiry and the government would not
intervene. She also said that at those local enquiries, only one came forward, Oldham. There was a
reluctance for those areas to face the facts.
There was a reluctance
for them and denial ran through everything. Denial is like a poisonous thread. It weaves its way through all of those public wadis
and strangles the tree to stop justice coming forward. So it is
essential there is an investigation held into all of the failings by the police, local authorities, prosecutors, charities, political
parties, and the prime minister himself was in denial until Saturday
when this U-turn was forced upon him, and he so often brandishes his
credentials of being the director of public prosecutions who had penned an article for the Guardian going
back to 2014 knowing that 1400 victims were amongst that, but he
did nothing until this was forced
upon him.
So, here are the questions we need to know about this statutory enquiry because people need to know
this. Who will be chairing this enquiry? What type of enquiry will
it be? It already seems to be watered down. When it be
independent, a national enquiry, or as it seems now, and national commission. What are the terms of
reference? We will hear it in due course. That is not good enough.
What are the powers of this enquiry? It seems unclear. Well there be judicial powers to subpoena people
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know. I welcome the enquiry and the
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I welcome the enquiry and the investigation into finding out who is responsible for helping this
is responsible for helping this scourge continue unabated. But would she agree with me that the 20
she agree with me that the 20 recommendations of the J review need to be urgently implemented and this
to be urgently implemented and this enquiry should not delay the implementation of those recommendations?
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The enquiry should not delay that, but the enquiry needs to be done with speed and haste, not be
done with speed and haste, not be watered down or brushed under the carpet because it is essential the
carpet because it is essential the victims voices heard and they have justice. The house also needs
justice. The house also needs assurance that there will be no exemptions from prosecution in exchange for evidence. It also needs to know can witnesses be compelled
to know can witnesses be compelled to produce documents protected by public interest immunity? When will
public interest immunity? When will this happen? It is not good enough that the Home Secretary was saying three years away.
Close to a general
three years away. Close to a general elections. It needs to be done as soon as possible. I also wonder why
soon as possible. I also wonder why a statutory enquiry and not a criminal enquiry? Is it because a
criminal enquiry can lead to an arrest, charges and criminal
prosecutions whereas a statutory one tends to make a series of recommendations then to be acted
upon? So, at the end of this enquiry, will we see prosecutions?
Will we see deportations? Time and again, we heard community cohesion
was put above working-class girls.
This cannot ever happen again. The issues were not investigated for
fear of being labelled racist. That cannot ever happen again. If
somebody does wrong, it does not matter, the colour of the skin or their religion, they have done
wrong, committed a criminal act and it is right that they are brought to justice. This government will not
get away with a watered-down national enquiry. They have been
dragged kicking and screaming to deliver a national enquiry. That
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delivered. I rise today in strong support of
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I rise today in strong support of new clause 122 tabled by my honourable friend the number for North Warwickshire and Bedworth. I
North Warwickshire and Bedworth. I am proud to be the first signatory to this amendment which I believe
to this amendment which I believe represents a vital step forward in the protection of some the most marginalised people within our
society. New clause 122 amends the policing bill to create aggravated offences where the underlying crime is motivated by hostility because
the persons sexual orientation, transgender identity or disability, or because of their perceived
17:12
Jacob Collier MP (Burton and Uttoxeter, Labour)
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or because of their perceived identity. It aligns the legal treatment of these forms with a
framework that already exists for offences. This clause delivers on our promise, promise that we in the
Labour Party made in our manifesto to the British people we would act to close this gap in our hate crime
laws and provide equal protections to LGBT+ people and disabled people in the common justice system. It is
about living up to our values. Labour is the party of equality and fairness before the law and standing
with those voices who are too often ignored.
That is wagering this
amendment, it is rooted in this tradition. I think it is fitting that we are introducing this
amendment in pride month and in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling which has caused so much anguish amongst the trans-community. We know
the scale of the problem. Hate crimes based on sexual orientation
have risen 112% over the last five years against trans people, that
figure is 186%. The charity gallop which supports LGBT victims of abuse saw a 60% increase in referrals in
the last year alone.
In the year
ending March 2024, 11,719 disability hate crime incidents were reported. Shamefully, just 1% of this hate
crime involving violence resulted in a charge. And yet still, the
majority of incidents go unreported. Too many victims still believe that
the system is not on their side and this new clause gives us the
opportunity to change that. It gives police and prosecutors a clear route to charge and convicted offenders in
a way that truly reflects the nature of these crimes.
I know what it means to think twice having a walk
down the street, to pause before holding somebody's hand, to wonder whether that shout from across the road is something you can ignore or
something you can't afford to. And I know that I am not alone in that. I have spoken to my constituents and
people from far beyond who tell me
that they don't feel safe in reporting hate. They don't believe they will be taken seriously and
there is a profound failure of trust and one that we in this house have a duty to repair.
It is also about dignity, recognising that whether
you are a trans-teenager being punched in the park, a gay couple
being spat on on the tube, or a disabled man being harassed on his way to work, all people deserve their full protection of the law.
They deserve to know that this
country is on their side and that if they are targeted for who they are, justice will not look the other way. New clause 122 is for disabled
people who often remain far too invisible in the public conversation
around hate crime despite facing harassment, violence and abuse.
That is damaging every single day. The
Law Commission is recommending this change, Stonewall is supporting it,
so is gallop and disability rights UK and I'm proud that it is backed
UK and I'm proud that it is backed
People are asking to live a life in peace and have the right support
when things go wrong. Hope you can have the right measures to put this right today.
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Vikki Slade. I am proud to follow my honourable friend with the
honourable friend with the incredibly powerful speech. If people do not feel safe in their neighbourhoods the neighbourhoods
17:16
Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)
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will not thrive. Children denied
their independence because parents fear letting them walk to school or playing in the park. Business is not just suffering the financial impact
of shoplifting at the reluctance of customers especially the elderly you don't feel safe going out to the shops. When trust between different
parts like amenity breaks down, every fabric of our societies we can. To lead good lives we have to
feel safe. I welcome the government ambition for safer streets, and a commitment to the manifesto which
rightly stated visible neighbourhood policing was the cornerstone of the
British consent-based model.
In two many areas it has been eroded
leaving the police a reactive service focused on crisis response rather than preventing crime. But actions speak louder than words. While the promise of thousands of
extra police officers is welcome,
the National Police Chiefs' Council themselves make clear the amount falls far short of what is required to fund the government ambitions and
maintain existing workforce. They fully support the government's drive
to cut crime and for them to succeed investment in policing must live up to the ambition.
Let me bring this
closer to home. Dorset is one of the
lowest funded police forces in the country. I also am sad that the member for Huntington is not here for me to say that I agree with him
about concern about the funding for Miller. I'm pleased that Dorset's crime levels are lower than other areas and accept that areas who face
daily serious crime need investment. Our small semi rural towns and
villages often feel completely forgotten. The communities across mid Dorset and North Poole, they have organised shoplifting on the
rise.
Offenders know the chance of being caught is slim. I welcome the inclusion of an offence of
assaulting a retail worker and on behalf of constituents have written to me. One of them written to me
after a shoplifter was apprehended in her shop, "I know where you live.
" This offence is meaningless without enough police officers embedded in our neighbourhood.
Another retailer told me, we have extensive CCTV headsets, alarm systems, panic buttons and ANPR cameras. But the individuals have no respect and no fear of police
action.
They realise the police are not equipped to tackle it and they don't believe the government thinks
it is politically important. Dorset is home to award-winning beaches and world Heritage coastline and many important towns and villages. We are
less than two hours from London and the Midlands so our population swells in the summer huge pressure
on police services. Yet there is no recognition in police budgets to boost those police numbers reflect
seasonal demand. That is why support
new clause 85 and 86 in the name of my honourable friend the member for Hazel Grove, which will require them
levels of policing.
Towns should not have the resources stripped to support larger coastal towns. I'm proud to support new clause 122
making the offences aggravated by hostility towards sexual orientation, transgender ID or
disability. We live in increasingly
divided society, and this virtual division in hate is fuelling real- world crime. LGBT+ people four times
more likely to experience violence and straight counterparts. Disabled
adults three times more likely to experience domestic abuse and half of all transgender people have been sexually assaulted at least once in
their lifetimes.
That is why I can't
support NC7 which will remove the recording and retention of non-hate crimes. If we stop this, but I say to my constituent who said I'm a
practising Muslim and wear a hijab. Today I arrived I face problems
through my religious identity, owing to parks, taking the bus, shopping feels like a war zone. We want safer
streets and safe homes, but they only feel safe they are safe everyone.
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I intend to start Frontbench speech is around 525.
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Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is complete and unacceptable for anyone to face abuse, harassment,
anyone to face abuse, harassment, order termination due to their race, disability, religion or belief. Sexual orientation or gender
Sexual orientation or gender identity. Hate crimes have a
identity. Hate crimes have a profound and lasting impact on victims as they target the very essence of who a person is. The year
essence of who a person is. The year ending March 2024, over 26,000 hate
crimes based on sexual orientation with nearly 5000 targeting transgender individuals were
17:20
Paul Davies MP (Colne Valley, Labour)
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transgender individuals were recorded in England and Wales. These are not just statistics. These are real people. They represent real
17:21
Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)
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trauma and a systemic failure to
17:21
Paul Davies MP (Colne Valley, Labour)
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protect some of the most marginalised members of our society. We have seen this in my constituency, with an appalling
constituency, with an appalling homophobic attack of the young man outside a local pub. That is why I
outside a local pub. That is why I strongly support new clause 122,
strongly support new clause 122, brought forward by the on ability from North Warwickshire and Bedworth
from North Warwickshire and Bedworth Edgeworth. The clause will create statutory aggravated offences for
statutory aggravated offences for crimes motivated by hostility towards a person's sexual orientation, transgender identity,
orientation, transgender identity, or disability.
Or even the perception of these characteristics.
perception of these characteristics. It also extends protection to those targeted because of the association with individuals from these
with individuals from these communities. This amendment is a vital step in recognising the specific harm caused by eight motivated offences. It ensures the perpetrators of such crimes, whether
perpetrators of such crimes, whether they involve physical violence, harassment, or can all damage, are
harassment, or can all damage, are held fully accountable. It sends a clear message. Hate has no place in
our society, and the law will reflect that.
While this amendment
strengthens the legal framework, we must also acknowledge that legislation alone cannot dismantle
prejudice. We must go further. First
we must prove important mechanisms.
Many LGBTQ and disabled individuals do not report hate crimes due to
fear of being dismissed. Police forces must build trust with commute engagement and training that
reflects the lived experience of those offended. Second we must
invest in education. Hatred is not innate, it is learnt. Schools must
be empowered to deliver inclusive curriculum that promotes empathy, respect, and understanding from an
early age.
Education is our most powerful tool in preventing hate.
And third we must ensure that support services for victims are
fully funded and accessible. This includes mental support, mental
health, legal aid, and safe spaces for those recovering from trauma. Victims must know they are not
alone. And that help is available. My message is clear, everyone has
the right to feel safe. We must
collectively adopt a zero tolerance stance against hate crime. This amendment is not just a legal
reform, it is a moral imperative.
And for us, a manifesto promise. It
reflects the values of the Labour Party and wider society, which
consists of dignity, equality, and justice for all. Let us pass this
amendment and continue the work of building a country where everyone can live freely from fear and
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hatred. The final speech from the backbenches.
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backbenches. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to address my remarks on
the issue of live facial recognition, and the two new clauses
recognition, and the two new clauses in my name, new clause 21 and 22. New clause 21 course what ban on
New clause 21 course what ban on artificial recognition because it is not safe, it lacks legal legitimacy, and is an attack on fundamental
and is an attack on fundamental democratic write to the British
democratic write to the British people.
It should have no place in British policing which I remind the Minister is still by consent. It is not safe, technology was described
not safe, technology was described in the Court of Appeal as novel and controversial. Academic work has
controversial. Academic work has shown technology makes mistakes in
shown technology makes mistakes in dark skinned women in the cases between 21% and 35% of cases. Yet for light-skinned men, 99% were recognised correctly. Caucasian
17:24
Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)
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features are not safe, just ask Daniel was escorted out of not one
but two home bargain stores due to a mixup in facial recognition. It is
no wonder the Court of Appeal is striking this down in failing to recognise possible bias and the
algorithms will stop facial recognition it lacks legal legitimacy operating under vague
common-law powers, unlike DNA and
fingerprints. It is an attack on hard-won democratic rights undermining the principle that people should not be forced to identify themselves to the police
without suspicion.
It has been used
to monitor protesters, deterring normal participation and threatening free assembly. Some of our most important in trying to civil
liberties. Just ask protesters picked up in Russia underground train stations or protesters in Uyghur in China. The government must
think again. New clause 22 calls for broader safeguards and decision-
making to make sure you do not solely rely on AI algorithms and
there is always human review. New clause 22 calls for transparency for
the right people to know what information is held about them, for the right decisions made by any AI
and stop abuses by putting in the necessary checks.
Checks that meet high global standards, recommended by human rights organisations and
meet the best standards. Without these safeguards the government is ushering in the world of minority
report, a potential dystopia where the computer simply says no and there is nothing we as individuals can do about it. Unamended, this
bill is dangerous. It breaks the fundamental contract between the
British people and police, and the fundamental right to be considered innocent until proven otherwise. For
those who think that this will never happen here, please take a look across the Atlantic.
It can happen
here. It certainly can. It is time for the government to admit they have got this wrong, and it is a
sign of a strong government not a weak one if it listens to the evidence and changes course as a result. Live facial recognition is
not the answer and it will cause more problems than it claims to
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solve, it needs to go. I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
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spokesperson. Thank you. For too long, alkalinity is plagued by crime and antisocial behaviour. Clearly
antisocial behaviour. Clearly changes needed. After the former Conservative governor failed to get even the basics right on stopping
even the basics right on stopping and solving crime. Over 4500 PCSOs have been taken off the streets
have been taken off the streets since 2015, and more than 2 million crimes went unsolved in 2024 across England and Wales. While there are
17:27
Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)
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England and Wales. While there are many measures in this very wide- ranging bill that we welcome, and we
have heard some really impassioned speeches on some of them today, and I look forward to voting in favour of some of the divisions shortly, it
remains the case that opportunities for government to take real action in a number of areas, from cracking
down on sewage dumping to supporting a real return to proper neighbourhood policing, have not
been accepted. Our focus is on the amendments in my name.
The previous Conservative government let water
companies get away with putting
sewage into our rivers and onto our beaches creating environmental crisis and a public health emergency by the executives of these companies
handed themselves huge bonuses. This government has taken some steps in the right direction but in our
opinion has not gone far enough.
Everyone deserves the right to enjoy clean safe rivers in the local communities. Yet our waterways have been polluted often with impunity by water companies operating with weak
regulation and with the complicity of a negligent Conservative
government which voted time and time again against tougher action on sewage dumping throughout the last Parliament.
The scale of the crisis
is undeniable. According to a government owned data, 2024 alone
there are over 500,000 sewage spills leasing 3.6 million hours of sewage
into our rivers. Today just 14% of rivers and lakes in the UK are in
good ecological health. Despite tyrannical failure, water company executives have pocketed significant
sums in the 2023/24 year. This is a damning reflection of the system of
water pollution and punishing the public to pay the bills of dirty
rivers.
In my constituency, sewage discharge is significant. And
outflow alone, sewage that flowed
into the beautiful river for over 1000 hours. Liberal Democrat will continue to push to hold these companies and their ownership to
account. I particularly want to commend Member for Whitney for his
efforts in holding Thames Water to account. Last year Liberal Democrat
amendments to the Criminal Justice Bill suggested creating an offence of failing to meet pollution performance commitment levels. It was defeated by the Conservative
government.
As we have scrutinised this bill it is clear we are
witnessing a government not going far enough to reform a broken water industry. The Lib Dems have a plan
to do that. With new clause 87 we will create a new offence of failing to meet pollution commitments. Our
new clause 88 would create senior manager liabilities for failing to
meet those commitment levels. If this government is serious about ending the national scandal of
sewage dumping, it really should stop shielding those responsible and start delivering real
accountability.
Onto neighbourhood policing, the people in our local communities have a right to feel
safe walking in their streets. The previous government demolished community policing, cutting police
numbers and leaving more crimes than ever unpunished. Our communities massively value the excellent work
done by local police teams, and so they acutely feel this loss. I'm sure I'm not alone in calling for
constituents about the rise in shop theft, whether it is charity shops
or nail salons. We have seen this in
my constituency recently.
Nor am I alone in hearing reports of illegal off-road by intimidating residents and causing serious accidents as
they do often on my patch. But Democrat amendments 85 and 86 would
help to restore community policing, visible trusted bobbies on the beat. These amendments would guarantee
minimum levels and require every local authority in England and Wales
to have a dedicated team assigned
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I think my honourable friend
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I think my honourable friend forgiving way. Was the honourable member as surprised as I was here the contribution for Huntington who seemed to ridicule the concept of
having policing for communities which would surely protect them and
which would surely protect them and help to prevent theft of their farm equipment which was the example he gave in his contribution.
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gave in his contribution. Thank my honourable friend for his intervention and I do not know
his intervention and I do not know why anyone would be against neighbourhood policing. It was in
neighbourhood policing. It was in this government's manifesto, it is the that has the most trust and most
the that has the most trust and most support and it seems frankly daft not to. I would be delighted.
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not to. I would be delighted. At no point did I say that I was against minimum levels of policing
against minimum levels of policing but merely pointed out that the new
but merely pointed out that the new clause simply is not good enough at articulating that clause but this is a point where I would encourage the Liberal Democrats to put pressure on
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Liberal Democrats to put pressure on the Policing Minister to change the police allocation. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for beautiful timing,
gentleman for beautiful timing, there are some skills. I agree with him and also that the funding
formula should be put in place for neighbourhood policing is all of our
communities that need that get it, so I cannot speak from that position
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but I am delighted if you wish to intervene. I invite the honourable lady to
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I invite the honourable lady to withdraw what she and her colleagues said because it was about my honourable friend because it was incorrect. I do not recall mentioning his
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I do not recall mentioning his honourable friend, and if I said anything incorrect I think I said someone saying that it was incorrect
someone saying that it was incorrect to have those levels of policing was daft and I held that belief. On
daft and I held that belief. On rural crime in clause 83 and 84, in
rural crime in clause 83 and 84, in rural areas gangs target GPS and from a movement, the cost of which
from a movement, the cost of which sold over £52 million in 23, according to the National is union
and I have heard from myself the impact that organised fly-tipping
impact that organised fly-tipping and theft have.
I must recall the work of my honourable friend who has done really remarkable stuff in pushing the Government on this area
pushing the Government on this area of rural crime, particularly for securing from the Home Secretary a commitment to establishing new rural
commitment to establishing new rural and wildlife crime strategy which
is, of course, welcome. Lib Dem amendments 84 and 83 would extend
the equipment at 2023 to explicitly include theft of GPS equipped movement and establish a rural crime task. Ensure that the new rural and
wildlife crime strategy could be as effective as possible.
Something that is discussed often is a duty of
candour and it is a commitment that
I welcome from this Government, justice must be accessible to all and survivors would never have their
trauma compounded to uncover the truth and hold those responsible to account as happened after the Hillsborough disaster, so it continues to be really disappointing
to see how slow the Government have been approaching the implementation.
been approaching the implementation.
New clause 89 would ensure open and honest operations in all processes, sharing relevant information
proactively and truthfully and failure to do so would lead to misconduct charges, including serious consequences for intentional
reckless breaches.
New clause warranty deals with the issue too many police officers who are struggling to access the mental
health support they need. And we
have a growing number of mental health as a result of that and we would require every police force to
ensure that all police get proper training on how to deal with this. I also want to conclude by commending
my colleague the honourable member of Tunbridge Wells for bringing forward the work in clause 43. He
addressed in the colour of all parties representing the cross party working has carried out to get
support for this and I urge the Government and colleagues across the House to back his amendment and the changes I have outlined today so our
communities get the action they so urgently need.
17:35
Matt Vickers MP (Stockton West, Conservative)
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Thank you. I may have said it
17:36
Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)
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17:36
Matt Vickers MP (Stockton West, Conservative)
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Be said enough, I want to once again pay tribute to the hard-working police officers, PCS was, and police staff across the country. They put themselves in harm's way every day
themselves in harm's way every day to keep our streets safe under immense pressure and I hope every member across the House will join me in thanking them for their service. Yesterday, I mentioned our support
Yesterday, I mentioned our support for many measures in the bill, although given the vast majority are carried over from the previous Government, it is probably no great
surprise.
Forcing this legislation will require resources. I have already outlined concerns about funding for our police forces and
funding for our police forces and the devastating impact it will have on frontline police officers. I asked the question of the Minister yesterday and I am not graduate I
heard an answer. Can the Minister can if there will be more police officers at the end of the Parliament than the record high levels achieved by the last Government in March high levels
Government in March high levels achieved by the last Government in March 2024.
Highest number on record and I want to start by turning to
and I want to start by turning to new clause 130 relating to tool theft and I declare an interest as
theft and I declare an interest as the son of a builder I know the
impact this has on pupils lives. Tool theft is not a toolmaker, no, Madam Deputy Speaker, tool theft is
completely out of control. Research shows 45,000 tool thefts reported to
the police in a single year, amounting to one every 12 minutes.
This country is built on the back of our tradesmen. They are the small
businesses who make a huge contribution to our economy and literally build the world around us.
Just imagine you get up early in the morning to go to work and earn a living, leave the House only to find your van has been completely raided
and all your tools stolen and your ability to work stolen as well. This
impact is huge and it is not only the cost of replacing stolen tools but it is days of lost work and
disappointed customers, many of whom have taken a day off work themselves and the issue is made worse still
when tradesmen go down to car boot sales only to see stolen equipment
being sold in broad daylight with no
action taken by the authorities.
Over recent months, I have been campaigning alongside tradesmen for real action on this issue, just last week the Leader of the Opposition,
my friend, the member for Brixton and Sidcup met with tradesmen,
businesses, and the police to hear about the impact first hand. We
heard about campaigners like the gas expert, Frankie from under tools, alongside businesses also affected such as checking a trade, Balfour
Beatty, and BT outreach as well as charger's sergeant Dave. I will.
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Is it if the Conservatives had won 1/15 year in Government, but
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won 1/15 year in Government, but they have started to tackle this epidemic was much Record funding into policing, but
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Record funding into policing, but a record number of police on the streets. The one thing we were not
streets. The one thing we were not doing was taxing our police forces
doing was taxing our police forces of the streets. We were making huge process. I would also like to mention Sergeant Dave from the Metropolitan Police that are just last week doing great work on this
last week doing great work on this issue, so Madam Deputy Speaker, this new clause pauses three key changes,
new clause pauses three key changes, fines for perpetrators that equate to replacing the cost of equipment, repairing the damage caused and the
repairing the damage caused and the loss of work.
Secondly, the debt of
loss of work. Secondly, the debt of tools will be treated as an aggravated offence, meaning tougher sentences for those that still this vital equipment and, finally, to
vital equipment and, finally, to require councils to put in place an enforcement plan to crack down on
enforcement plan to crack down on the sale of stolen tools at car boot
the sale of stolen tools at car boot sales. I also want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the Member for Portsmouth North for her campaigning on this issue and how much she also wants to see action on
much she also wants to see action on tool theft.
As the honourable member knows, the equipment theft
prevention act was brought through this House and it could make a real
difference on this issue. Can the Minister confirm when they will bring this forward to put this
interaction? I want to turn to the issue, new clause 7 would change
legislation and guidance to remove
the recording and protection of crime hate incidents. The use of non-crime hate incidents has spiralled out of all control, and
well beyond its originally intended purpose.
The deal should be simple.
If the law is broken, justice must be served, but non-crime incidents
are a different beast. You did not break the law, you just said
something daft and ended up locked in police records. We need policing
our streets. We have all seen the utterly barmy story of a nine-year-
old who insulted another pupil in the playground. Is that unkind? Yes,
of course it is, but instead of a quiet word with the teacher or a call to the parents, the police were
brought in and I would appeal to members across the House and say what you want that happening to your child or would you rather give them
a proper telling of at-home? And it has a bigger effect, our police officers are being tired of documenting spats with childish drives due to national security
threats while real threats like burglary, robbery, and violent offences are being pushed to the
back of the queue stop in fact, research and policy exchange found that, nationally, over 16,000 of
police hours are being spent on non-crime hate incidents.
Our police need to get back to keeping our streets safe, not policing silly
word or childish playground issues. Before concluding my remarks, I would like to draw the House as
attention to some of the opposition of other amendments that could protect communities and keep our streets safe. We would have been
voting today on new clause 144 to secure that national statutory in
into grooming gangs. A scandal that give our country share. Child social
rotation ruins lives, preys on the most vulnerable in our communities, exploiting the horrific sexual acts
and often coercing them into a life
of crime, a national inquiry is what the victims wanted, so I am glad the Prime Minister has finally turned
and given into the pressure to join what he described as the far right bandwagon of people who wanted a
national inquiry.
It was the Leader of the Opposition that said
yesterday we must not have another whitewash. The national inquiry must ask the hard questions and leave no stone unturned. Criminal
investigations must run in parallel
to the inquiry and we must deliver the whole system, Whitehall, CPS, police, local authorities, and, wherever there is wrongdoing, there
should be prosecutions, for foreign perpetrators they must be
immediately deported and the inquiry must be fully independent with statutory powers covering all major towns, local councils simply cannot
be left to investigate themselves.
New clause 125 is aiming to reinstate people's confidence in
policing. We have recently seen the perverse and racism commitment issued by the National police Council also it calls for a wrists
rate to be artificially engineered to be the same across racial groups, advised to treat black-and-white
subjects differently is morally indefensible. It is, by definition, two tier policing, it undermines trust and confidence in our police.
This amendment gives the Home Secretary the power to amend or withdraw any code of practice intended to direct policing
practices.
New clause 139 makes
provisions in relation to off load bikes and I know many members across
the House nor the havoc that has
been caused by them", issues being raised by members on both sides of the House numerous times in Westminster Hall, in this place at
the approach that features in this bill will simply not be enough. As
we know, using alternative legislation, the police are already able to seize off-road bikes without notice. This new clause would remove
the prohibition on the police environment willing to confiscate an
off-road bike and ensure that police destroy seized bikes, rather than selling them back into the market.
I
urge comment fact I beg of the Minister to look again compare compensable, and how to tackle the
scourge of off-road bikes. I would also like to draw the House as attention to new clause 131, which would introduce mandatory
deportation for foreign nationals found in possession of child abuse
images. These sick paedophiles have no place in our country and they,
along with all foreign offenders, should be deported. To conclude, the
British people want our police to be able to focus on putting real criminals behind bars.
The thieves
that make hard-working tools not spending time policing playground
squabbles and treating them like criminals. Our opposition and mints today are commonsense which changes
are the whole hounds will get, changing policing and restoring it
to what it meant to be, tackling crime on our streets.
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Thank you, and first of all I would like to thank all right
would like to thank all right honourable and Honourable Members, including the chairs of the first
including the chairs of the first Select Committee and The Chair of justice Select Committee who have taken part in this debate. And, in particular, the members that have brought forward new clauses. There
brought forward new clauses. There are well over 100 new clauses in this group, so, sadly, I am sure the House will appreciate, I will not be
House will appreciate, I will not be able to cover them all, but in the time remaining I will do my best to respond to As many as are of that opinion, say, "Content" Khan.
Let me
start with the new clauses put forward by my Honourable Friends. New clauses 2 to four and 19 by my
New clauses 2 to four and 19 by my honourable friend, I fully recognise
the concerns raised by my honourable friend and I deeply sympathetic to the need to disrupt those who profit
from the prostitution of women, mainly women, including through online platforms to tackle demand for prostitution and to strengthen
for prostitution and to strengthen support for people who have been
support for people who have been Regarding online platforms, in terms
Regarding online platforms, in terms of the Online Safety Act of 2023 and
the ongoing dialogue with Ofcom and the new powers in the bill for law enforcement to suspend IP addresses,
all of this will help to tackle online sexual exploitation.
We know
that we must go further and the government is working closely with law enforcement and support services
to build an evidence base of how we can tackle exploitation that happens
online more effectively. My
honourable friend will now that in
2015, the act was amended and this means that the loitering and soliciting only applies to adults
and those convicted while under 18, they are still living with the
consequences including living with the consequences of reduced employment opportunities.
Earlier
this week, I can commit to bringing
this week, I can commit to bringing
forward these commitments for anyone caution as a child for the offence of loitering. However, the offence
is really used to be but I pull that prostitution on the streets has an
17:48
Rt Hon Dame Diana Johnson MP, The Minister of State, Home Department (Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham, Labour)
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impact in local communities sure so I cannot commit to the complete
I cannot commit to the complete repealing of it until there has been an opportunity to consult with
an opportunity to consult with communities. My honourable friend and right honourable friend have put
and right honourable friend have put forward similar new clauses which
forward similar new clauses which seek to amend the offence of possession of extreme pornographic
possession of extreme pornographic industries and I pay tribute to the honourable and right honourable members for the work they have done on this.
There is no place for
on this. There is no place for violent and misogynistic and harmful content online that perpetuates
violent abuse against women and girls we know the increasing prevalence of this content is
feeling violent sexual encounters. There are issues with the drafting
There are issues with the drafting of the clauses and the government supports the underlying aim. I'm
supports the underlying aim. I'm pleased to see that the amendments are brought forward and the Lords to
criminalise the pornography depicting strangulation.
My honourable friend also has the
implementation of other recommendations of the Pornography
View of Baroness Burt in. It's important to all of us and tackling this violence against women and girls is a defining mission of the
government. I would like to directly
There is work ongoing in this area and we will report back on that. Moving on to the new clause 122. I
thank my honourable friend for putting forward this new clause and
for all of her work campaigning in
this space and we have heard many excellent speeches today.
The new
clause would make all existing
strands of hate crime and aggravated offence and crimes targeted at this level, LGBT, transgender people are
There are steep increases in hate crime towards transgender people and this cannot be tolerated. He knows
that the government supports this change, as set out in the manifesto last year and I confirm that we
bring forward a suitable government amendment to put this through to the
Lords committee stage. First of all, I want to state my ongoing
admiration for her and persistence in seeking to protect victims,
voiceless, survivors.
The House always horror a huge debt of
always horror a huge debt of
gratitude for her work. -- owes her. I thank her for her contribution today. I want to refer to clause 18.
In the statutory guidance around
child criminal exploitation, Mickey your friend, it will be used by the police to apply legislation based on
practical circumstances. The statutory guidance will include the
definition of CCE and set out in
layman terms the conduct and offence
that amounts to CCE.
Clause 43, the honourable member, who I now refer
to his meeting with the safeguarding minister just yesterday, and again, I would like to reassure the
honourable member that tackling public sexual harassment is an important part of the mission to
reduce the levels of violence against women and girls by 50% in this ticket. We are looking at measures to address sex-based
harassment including the commencement of the legislation and.
-- In this decade. The new strategy will set out improvements in the way that we will tackle sexual
harassment and that is due to be published before the summer recess.
The new clause that has been brought forward with tidy commencement of
the act to the timing of this bill but is important it is put forward
with the conclusion of the work with police and other agencies so the introduction is managed and it
therefore must be commenced by regulation in the normal way. If I
could turn to the new clause 44
tabled by my honourable friend, the member for Bolton North-West. She will be aware of the independent domestic homicide sentencing review
be considered the issue of this
abuse and in due course it will lead to a number of changes in legislation, particularly aggravated factors related to controlling or
coercing behaviour of which we
expect would cover many of the issues of honour-based abuse my honourable friend was to see.
He
will be aware the Lord Chancellor has asked the commission to undertake wholesale review of the
sentencing for murder as well as relating to homicide offences.
Turning to the new clause he's brought forward by the shadow
minister. He has tabled no less than
30 new clauses, which has given me a distinct sense of deja vu, given we saw the vast majority of these at
committee and myself and my honourable friend responded at
length then. Referring to clause 130.
I'm pleased it has been
introduced for debate and I think the honourable member made a
powerful case for its introduction and I will say that I am completely
of the view that he and other honourable members have set out of the importance of eating stronger
action -- taking stronger action against the theft of tools and the
reselling of the tools. It affects people twice, both the value of the equipment and then the ability to
equipment and then the ability to
earn a living.
Also, I note my honourable friend is working closely...
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Thank you for acknowledging the fact that stolen tools affect people
fact that stolen tools affect people in more ways. It's not just police on the streets, but the sentencing that happens. Will she work with me
that happens. Will she work with me across departments to make sure the powers with aggravated circumstances
powers with aggravated circumstances reflect the crime?
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reflect the crime? I am happy to do that. I want to congratulate her on taking the campaign forward and being such a
campaign forward and being such a worthy advocate for it. We take this issue very seriously and are fully committed to implementing this. We are finalising our plans for
are finalising our plans for
commencement and will update the House in due course. I am going to keep going because I'm conscious I've not got much time and I wanted
I've not got much time and I wanted to say again to the shadow minister about hate incidents, to reiterate what I said in committee, the Home
what I said in committee, the Home Secretary has been clear that a consistent and commonsense approach
consistent and commonsense approach must be taken with these incidents
must be taken with these incidents and, accordingly, it has been agreed with the PCC and College of Policing that there will be a review of this.
I would say to the shadow minister that it was the shadow Home
Secretary playing the role of policing minister that introduced the current code of practice and
police guidance on non-crime hate incidents and he said the government
fully recognises the importance of ensuring vulnerable individuals,
groups and communities continue to be protected by the police and indeed that is the purpose of the
incident recording and that we are confident the court does precisely
that. And so it seems odd that he is saying that it is right and then he
wants to scrap it.
If I could refer
to clause 144, I was disappointed that the right honourable lady seems to have missed the announcement made
by the Home Secretary on Monday which answered a number of her
questions and also the shadow minister did not seem to be aware of
that either. Utilising existing
legislation in the inquiry, the independent commission will be set up under the national inquiry with
full powers to compel individuals to testify with the aim of holding institutions to account for current
and historic failure is in the response to child exploitation.
The
Home Secretary was clear that she was accepting all the recommendations from Baroness Casey.
recommendations from Baroness Casey.
If I can move on, I will carry on. Referring to the new clauses which
were mentioned by the spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats and particularly 87 and 88. This
government has been clear that water companies must accelerate action to reduce pollution to the environment.
The Water (Special Measures) Act
received Royal ascent and delivers
on the government commitment to put failing water companies under special measures.
Most of the measures introduced automatic
penalties on polluters and bands for bonuses for executives if they do not meet the adequate standards. I
not meet the adequate standards. I
think 85 and 86... No. The new clauses 85 and 86 around neighbourhood policing, I think it's
clear that the government is starting to implement the policing
guarantee and I wanted to say in relation to clause 13, the
honourable member is seeking to amend the joint enterprise and I
think the government recognises serious consequences can arise from the convictions but the joint enterprise ensures those who act together when committing a crime are
held responsible.
We saw that in the
case of Ben Kinsella and Gary new -- Newlove as well. We are we are of
the concerns. We will look into
that. I apologise to the other honourable and right honourable members that I have not got through all 100 amendments. I have got to
leave time for the person who is
leading the group to respond.
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Is it's your pleasure that the clause be withdrawn? By leave, the
clause be withdrawn? By leave, the New clause 7 has been selected for a separate decision. I called the
separate decision. I called the shadow minister to move formally.
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Move formally.
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Move formally. The question is that new clause 7
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The question is that new clause 7 be read a second time. As many as of that opinion, say, "Aye." Of the
that opinion, say, "Aye." Of the contrary, say, "No." Division. Clear
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Order, Order, the Order, the question Order, the question is Order, the question is as Order, the question is as on Order, the question is as on the
order paper, As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", Andrea Snowdon,
contrary, "No", Andrea Snowdon, David Simmons, The "Noes", Martin
18:04
Division
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Order. The eyes to the right, 102, The
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"Noes" the left, 390. Thank you. The "Ayes" to the
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Thank you. The "Ayes" to the right, 102. The "Noes" to the left, 390, The "Noes" have it, The "Noes"
390, The "Noes" have it, The "Noes" have it. Order. Under the order of
have it. Order. Under the order of the House on the 70th of June I must note that the question is necessary to bring proceedings on
to bring proceedings on consideration to a conclusion, clause 33 has been selected for the separate decision. I can tell my
separate decision.
I can tell my party to move new clause 43 formally. The question is that new
formally. The question is that new clause 43 be added to the bill, As many as are of that opinion, say,
many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No",
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Order.
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Order. The Order. The question Order. The question is Order. The question is that
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Order. The question is that new clause 43 be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion, say,
many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the contrary, "No." Teller is for the ayes, Bobby Dean and Will
is for the ayes, Bobby Dean and Will Forster. For the noes, Martin
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Lock Lock the Lock the doors.
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Order, Order, order.
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Order, order. Order, order. The Order, order. The ayes Order, order. The ayes to Order, order. The ayes to the
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Order, order. The ayes to the
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Order, order. The ayes to the
right, 147. The noes to the left, 305. The ayes to the right, 147. The
305. The ayes to the right, 147. The
305. The ayes to the right, 147. The noes to the left, 305. The noes have
it. The noes have it. Clause 18 has been selected for special decision. I call on Lisa Clark to move
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formally. Move formally. The question is that the clause
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The question is that the clause be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the
of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the contrary, "No." Division. Clear the
As As many As many as As many as are As many as are of As many as are of that As many as are of that opinion, As many as are of that opinion, say,
"Aye." To the contrary, "No." Pillows for the ayes, Bobby Dean and
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Order.
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Order. The Order. The "Ayes" Order. The "Ayes" to Order. The "Ayes" to the Order. The "Ayes" to the right,
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Order. The "Ayes" to the right,
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Order. The "Ayes" to the right, The "Ayes" to the right, 178, The "Noes" to the left, 313, The "Noes"
"Noes" to the left, 313, The "Noes" have it, The "Noes" have it. We now
have it, The "Noes" have it. We now come to new clause 121 which has been selected for separate decision, I called them Caroline Davies to move one to one formally. The
move one to one formally. The question is that new clause 121p added to the bill. As many as are of
added to the bill.
As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the
Order, Order, order.
Order, order. The Order, order. The question Order, order. The question is Order, order. The question is that
new clause 121 be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", The
"Ayes" Gregory Stafford, The "Noes",
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Lock Lock the Lock the doors.
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Order, Order, order. Order, order. Order, order. The Order, order. The ayes Order, order. The ayes to Order, order. The ayes to the
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Order, order. The ayes to the right, 114. The noes to the left,
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right, 114. The noes to the left, 310. The ayes to the right, 114.
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310. The ayes to the right, 114. The noes to the left, 310. The noes have it. The noes have it. Clause
have it. The noes have it. Clause 130 has been selected for special decision. I called the shadow minister to move formally.
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minister to move formally. Move formally. Where the question
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Move formally. Where the question is that the new clause 430 be added
to the bill. As many as of that opinion, say, "Aye.". To the
opinion, say, "Aye.". To the contrary, "No." Division. Clear the
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The The question The question is The question is that
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The question is that clause The question is that clause 130 be added to the bill. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the
of that opinion, say, "Aye." To the contrary, "No." Tellers for the
contrary, "No." Tellers for the ayes, David Simmons and Andrew Snowden. For the North, Martin
Snowden. For the North, Martin
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Lock Lock the Lock the doors.
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Order.
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Order. The "Ayes" to the right, 178. The
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The "Ayes" to the right, 178. The
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The "Ayes" to the right, 178. The The "Ayes" to the right, 178, The "Noes" to the left, 313, The "Noes"
"Noes" to the left, 313, The "Noes" have it, The "Noes" have it. I call the Minister to move amendments 102
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the Minister to move amendments 102 to 133 formally. Moved formally. The question is that Government amendment 112 to 133B made, As many
amendment 112 to 133B made, As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye",
Of the contrary, "No", I think The "Ayes" have it, The "Ayes" covered. Under the order of the House 17 of June I must now put the question
necessary to bring seedings on third
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necessary to bring seedings on third reading to conclusion. Minister to move third reading formally. Moved formally. The question is that the Bill be
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The question is that the Bill be now read a third time. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", division stop
The The question The question is The question is that The question is that the The question is that the Bill The question is that the Bill be The question is that the Bill be now
read a third time, As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the
contrary, "No", The "Ayes", Martin McCluskey, and for The "Noes", David
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Bolt Bolt the Bolt the doors.
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Order.
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Order. The "Ayes" to the right, 312, The
"Noes" to the left, 95.
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"Noes" to the left, 95. Thank you. The "Ayes" to the
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Thank you. The "Ayes" to the right, 312, The "Noes" to the left, 95, The "Ayes" cabbage, The "Ayes"
95, The "Ayes" cabbage, The "Ayes" We may, we now must take the emotion
We may, we now must take the emotion relating to the third division, Minister to move. The question is
Minister to move. The question is that the motion related to divisions, As many as are of that
divisions, As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", I think The "Ayes" covered, The "Ayes" cabbage.
We now come emotion number three on
come emotion number three on Proceeds of Crime Act, minister to move.
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move. I beg to move. The question is as on the order paper, As many as are
on the order paper, As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", The "Ayes" have it. We come to number four on estimates,
We come to number four on estimates, minister to move. The question is as on the order paper. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye", Of the contrary, "No", The "Ayes" have it.
contrary, "No", The "Ayes" have it.
We now come to petition. Mrs Sharon Hodgson.
19:13
Petitions Mrs Sharon Hodgson MP (Washington and Gateshead South, Labour)
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker for summarise to present this petition in light of recent,
horrific attacks on prison of by inmates. Debatable roll whether
prison of should all be provided with an Thai stab and slash gear has
brought to the forefront of the political discussion recently. We
know that attacks can happen in any prison, as they did to my very brave constituent, Clare Lewis, who as a result set up a change.org petition,
calling for mandatory protective
gear which is currently on 32,000 signatures.
We must ensure that this is available to all officers, not just those working in high security
prisons. The petition therefore request that the House of Commons
urge the Government to take into account the concerns of prisoners and to take immediate action to
ensure that all prison officers are equipped with mandatory anti-stab and an Thai/protective gear to keep
them safe from violent prisoners and
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Petition, anti-stab and anti-
19:15
Adjournment: Government support for post-industrial towns
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slash protective gear in prisons. I beg to move this House do now adjourn.
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adjourn. The question is this House do now adjourn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The post-
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. The post- industrial towns of these areas are on their feet, with young people
on their feet, with young people moving away, never to return good jobs, skills, and how pairs of the
19:16
Jo White MP (Bassetlaw, Labour)
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cities London and surrounding towns. The good apprenticeships are too few. We have low skilled populations
few. We have low skilled populations who are growing older with higher health demands on our NHS and care services. Aspiration levels have
services. Aspiration levels have plummeted, and the mindset we have
plummeted, and the mindset we have
plummeted, and the mindset we have All too often, these towns have been ignored by successive governments.
They have been disregarded because they are on a list of things that
they are on a list of things that are too difficult to do.
This is the first government in over a generation to rebuild the economy
generation to rebuild the economy with the amendment of a strategic man. This is the end of the free market allowed to run free with
patchy government intervention and growth ambition which relies more on
growth ambition which relies more on hope and prayers. The towns that had been left behind in red ball areas
been left behind in red ball areas will only have potential unleashed and become Wealth builders with the national industrial strategy that
national industrial strategy that aligns itself to the future.
--
aligns itself to the future. -- wall. I see deputy leader with responsibility for regeneration at the council, I believed in the last
attempt to rebuild the strategy under Theresa May and there were
lots of warm words at all levels of government including mine but then
there was silence. Now is our opportunity to define a strategy
that aligns itself to national priorities and feeds into the
ambition of local areas. Of course I
will give way.
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A lot of places have got that pride and passion. We are looking at
pride and passion. We are looking at that. Should we focus on aerospace
defence and manufacturing so these places can be revitalised?
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places can be revitalised? I thank my honourable friend for
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I thank my honourable friend for the intervention and I agree and we have to be best in these areas. Our
have to be best in these areas. Our
have to be best in these areas. Our areas must become engines. There is
areas must become engines. There is a development of fusion energy in
north Nottinghamshire and there is a
north Nottinghamshire and there is a commitment to reopen the airport and kickstart it as it opens. The closure of the airport was
closure of the airport was devastating in November 2022.
They
devastating in November 2022. They will be open. There are new jobs
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across the region. I thank my honourable friend for
giving way. She knows how passionate
we are and we want to see the airport open and revitalised and
ready to take flights in the future.
It will bring jobs, prosperity, longer term ambition for young people who live in that area. Does
she agree targeted government
support to develop skills in the
area is exactly what we need to do.
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I totally agree. I want young people to think about the wider opportunities, including what is
opportunities, including what is happening at the airport. I know the
happening at the airport. I know the jobs were lost. I am supportive of what is coming forward.
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what is coming forward. I thank the honourable member for
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I thank the honourable member for giving way and wonder if she might agree that to turbocharge the revolution that we need, further
revolution that we need, further education must be part of that and the area in the country should have
the area in the country should have strong provision and particularly as
strong provision and particularly as is the case. This is rather than
solely relying on universities.
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solely relying on universities. I agree and for too long people
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I agree and for too long people have moved away and we need the qualities to be aligned. They are
qualities to be aligned. They are part of the engine of the future. We
have to focus on that.
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My community is good. I often
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My community is good. I often speak to steelworkers who say that
speak to steelworkers who say that when the left school, this was not the case. Does my honourable friend agreed there is a role to create
agreed there is a role to create jobs and have a skill strategy that guarantees decent and well-paid jobs
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guarantees decent and well-paid jobs for young people into the future. I thank my honourable friend for
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I thank my honourable friend for the contribution and it reflects that we must have a skills strategy
that we must have a skills strategy that aligns with the industrial
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strategy. I thank my right honourable
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I thank my right honourable friend for giving way. My constituency has prayed industrial
constituency has prayed industrial heritage. The world famous Johnny
heritage. The world famous Johnny Walker whisky plant and the shoe manufacturer and the producer of
manufacturer and the producer of combine harvesters across the world and the carpet manufacturer that
played a prominent role in the landscape and even rolled out the
red carpet for the wedding of Queen Elizabeth. Does my honourable friend
agree that file the industries have gone, the post-industrial towns in
Ayrshire have a bright future and
there is potential and it is driven
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by a modern industrial strategy. Again, I agree. The strategy must impact the whole of Great Britain,
not just local areas. To be successful, you have got to see new
successful, you have got to see new industries come to your constituency
and we all share in the future.
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and we all share in the future. Can I commend the honourable lady for bringing this forward. We know
for bringing this forward. We know what she is after I support her on that. Does she agree that the
that. Does she agree that the remnant of factories are a reminder
of the decline of industrial units and the impact on the economy and so does she agree that the investment
does she agree that the investment to rebuild these must come and we
must welcome the commitment of the
must welcome the commitment of the government to that and do they agree that when it comes to making the changes that matter, they are at
Westminster.
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Westminster. The government is making the change and maybe it is strategic. We
cannot rely on the market as we move
forward. It's essential to think about the growing economy and the wealth is in their hands. We have to
build lives back again. I want to agree with all of the interventions
agree with all of the interventions
that have been put forward. We will have no disagreement whatsoever.
What we need is a government that will deliver jobs and skills that
have been identified and the investment to step fusion in North
Notts as the potential to change the
industrial landscape in years to come, we need an industrial strategy
that encourages the left behind areas.
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With the honourable member agree to include post-industrial towns
to include post-industrial towns like Cornwall which have been post- industrial for longer than other towns and with opportunities in
towns and with opportunities in renewables, they could be rich again
under the strategy.
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under the strategy. I agree. It has been too easy and areas like ours have missed out time
areas like ours have missed out time and time again. It is too difficult
for previous industries to think about your communities of what they need to be strong again. I'm delighted we have a government
delighted we have a government focused on the same priorities we can all share.
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can all share. She's talking about the south-
west and I would head for her to forget the community which has a
forget the community which has a flourishing carpet maker but does not have the level of employment
not have the level of employment that it did in their heyday. Does she agree the government can help by
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investing in superfast broadband? I thank the Member for his intervention. The development and
intervention. The development and growth of infrastructure has to include it so we can all benefit
include it so we can all benefit from it. There are too many areas
missing out. We need a strong economy which includes the superfast
economy which includes the superfast broadband and the AI and we must be supercharged for the future. The
supercharged for the future. The announcement made yesterday would be
announcement made yesterday would be welcome and British Steel is an example.
This must be replicated in every infrastructure project across
every infrastructure project across the country. The ambitions and
rebuilding and munitions, hospital building projects. What steps is the ministry taking to ensure the
ministry taking to ensure the strategy gives priority to British companies and addresses the
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ambitious infrastructure committee? I thank the honourable member for
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I thank the honourable member for giving way. The towns in my constituency lie at the heart of the
constituency lie at the heart of the heavy woollen District in Yorkshire and we have a proud history of
textiles and were at the centre of
the recyclable textiles industry.
Today, we are the UK if not the European capital of putting people to sleep. That is making beds. There
to sleep. That is making beds. There
is very little from government to help the furniture industry in my constituency.
As well as technological investments, would agree that the government should
look to revitalise these industries
in all parts of the country and help them to expand and grow and overcome
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the Brexit barriers? Again, I thank the honourable
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Again, I thank the honourable member for his contribution. We all
member for his contribution. We all have localised industries. Local businesses are enabled to thrive and
survive. It's about how we invest.
It is an essential element.
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It is an essential element. Does she agree the targeted strategy for the post-industrial
strategy for the post-industrial towns and cities like ours will lift
towns and cities like ours will lift the ceiling for average earnings in constituencies. There is a real
constituencies. There is a real opportunity for secure, good, well-
paid jobs and apprenticeships.
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paid jobs and apprenticeships. We have got to stop young people
from making that choice and by building we have people spending
money on local economies. It is
further it is an investment zones, improved infrastructure, and this government has the ability to target growth and areas where the engines
that once powered the economy stop running too many years ago.
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I thank my honourable friend. They began the railway. We are proud
They began the railway. We are proud to see this after years of delay. We now have a world-class factory. Does she agree that areas apparently passed, with the right investment,
can power the future?
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This is the way that we supercharge the constituency and is about recognising strengths and
working with the local government and MPs in order to ensure we get
and MPs in order to ensure we get the right investment. We also have to focus on the fact that previous
governments have consistently relied
governments have consistently relied on the Treasury methodology. The framework always results in cities and huge corporations opening up
and huge corporations opening up ways of infrastructure, investment, and time and time again.
It is a
and time and time again. It is a formula applied across government, influencing wide-ranging decisions
influencing wide-ranging decisions including queer flood alleviation schemes go and support for heritage
schemes go and support for heritage Not just Redwall areas impacted by
this ideology and Scotland and Cornwall are in their place today. And Northern Ireland, of course, of
course, I never forget you.
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It goes without saying. And this is a simple explanation
for why we have left behind towns across the whole of the UK. I value and welcomed the Government has
and welcomed the Government has listened and has resolved to overhaul the Green Book in the
overhaul the Green Book in the future when it uses the space analysis as an integral element of the formula. And can I find my
honourable friend that number of Rossendale for his work with
Rossendale for his work with Ministers on this.
This change is fundamental because, left behind,
fundamental because, left behind, means failure. We had a Government that was only interested in the easy
that was only interested in the easy solutions and one that would balloon areas of the country into no-go
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areas of the country into no-go areas for new industry and new opportunities. Thank you. Agreement review found
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Thank you. Agreement review found the capability around dismissed development in certain areas and
development in certain areas and allocated lots of money to areas of
allocated lots of money to areas of high capability like Manchester and Liverpool. This highlights that devolution will eventually bring to places like Lancashire which have
places like Lancashire which have been left behind for too long. Would my honourable friend agree with me
that we cannot wait for this? That we need to see proper investment to the developing capacity capability that Lancashire needs to bring
forward its own business cases now.
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Thank you to my honourable friend for his contribution. Totally agree there is an absolute urgency. This is why we stood, why we are
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is why we stood, why we are championing the need for change,. I congratulate the honourable
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I congratulate the honourable lady for securing this debate, it is a really important subject and also to talk about the media hub that is needed, can I make a point by you,
needed, can I make a point by you, Mr Speaker, to the Treasury bench for when the industrial resolution comes it is important to all of our communities it has to address the
communities it has to address the chronic, crippling effect of industrial energy rises which so many in our Manufacturing sector today are being hurt by.
And whether
it is as a tour of Stoke-on-Trent there will be businesses today who are struggling. I know that my honourable friend agrees with me,
but I hope the Minister is able to address these issues and is able to confirm that will be something that
confirm that will be something that will benefit us all.
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will benefit us all. Yes, I have heard from all my honourable friend from Stoke-on-
honourable friend from Stoke-on- Trent who are currently seeing the demise of the ceramics industry is
demise of the ceramics industry is that this cannot go on and the cause
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is higher praxis. In the most recent data in 2023, 25% of Manufacturing jobs in Stoke- on-Trent were ceramics. Ceramics,
on-Trent were ceramics. Ceramics, especially advanced ceramics, is critical to strategic industries
critical to strategic industries such as defence, nuclear energy, and steel. Would my honourable friend agree with me that this industrial
strategy must recognise the
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strategy must recognise the foundation in ceramics not only as vital for the future of Stoke-on- Trent but also for the country? Again, I thank my honourable friend for her contribution. And I
just hope that the ministerial
just hope that the ministerial benches, you are the products, in your three constituencies, are absolutely critical for our industrial future. And my challenge
industrial future. And my challenge to Government today is to bring forward industrial strategy that allows the whole nation to grow and
allows the whole nation to grow and also resources and targets in towns that are crying out for change.
And I beginning by demanding a skills
I beginning by demanding a skills resolution revolution skills areas
resolution revolution skills areas and just areas that were dominated by key industries. In Bassetlaw we had thousands of men working down the pits whilst the wives, sisters,
the pits whilst the wives, sisters, and mothers, headed into the big textile factories. The history of
textile factories. The history of key industry is not exclusive to Bassetlaw, though there are vital
historic British industries with their roots, many in those areas.
Ceramics, fishing, automotive,
steel, shipping, all dominated the Midlands and the North of England. While some still remain, they are
struggling, fighting an ongoing international race for cheap labour
parts with successive Governments failing them time and time again. And Bassetlaw as the mines closed
and the textile factories moved to countries with cheap labour, the
employment opportunities shifted
with warehousing and logistics springing up on the old pit sites. And, at times, skills provision under the auspices of the Manpower services commission developed into a
simplistic system that is literally controlled by the main employers
wanting to mould the workforce to
their own needs at age 16.
In Bassetlaw, as Tony Wilkinson from Wilco's and Richard Birch of Birch and run the system. A small number
of skills training by that university route that most never returned. But that middleground
between the two was low priority for Government, and the lazy solution has been to import the skills we
need. This is a history of the last
14 years, when cheap, imported skills used to eat industrial
short-term needs, where methodically sidelining local young people and
adding to migration.
We have high skilled apprenticeships, but they
are not yet ingrained in our system,
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or the country. Certainly. Thank the honourable member for
giving way. I feel it is only right
giving way. I feel it is only right if that number speaks given that Charlie has been given a mention. With the member agree that it is for
With the member agree that it is for this reason that we need to invest in our people, in local business, in
small businesses? Because our people interact better and the surrounding
interact better and the surrounding areas, they have the ability, all they need is a bit of investment, a
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bit of support and a push. So, I would like to thank the members for his contribution. I
members for his contribution. I totally agree, the industrial
totally agree, the industrial strategy has to support the SMEs because they have to be part of the
supply change, they have to be part of that energy and growth because
they are an integral part of all of our communities. For me, I want to see the benefit with big industrial investment that they are part of that actual chain and are able to
grow with it.
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grow with it. On the skills, the one thing that I would like to raise is there is a risk in those areas that we do not get the same level of investment
when that money goes in to those areas. Would my honourable friend agree with me that it is really
important that this would flow across all of our communities?
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Again, I think my honourable
friend. I am very fortunate, I have
friend. I am very fortunate, I have been there. And I already can see the benefits of having the combined authority and that partnership with myself, local Government, and Meta
myself, local Government, and Meta is absolutely critical to investment
and talked about your Amendment area because those will get behind when
because those will get behind when you do not have your opportunity, I think it makes an incredible difference and I asked the
difference and I asked the Government again to move fast and
Government again to move fast and get that sorted.
I need to wind up, I am being told, so I will move to
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I am being told, so I will move to the end of my speech. Would my honourable friend give way? Just as the wider Government I just wanted to give people outside an opportunity to recall the fact
an opportunity to recall the fact that not a single Conservative former MP was in that room to listen
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to this important debate. The debate is far too important to actually start scoring political points at this stage. Jo White. Thank you. I finish by saying
time is running out. It is not handouts we are asking for, no sympathy. Our demand is strategic
investment and I ask the Minister give us the tools, Britain, Great
Britain, England is looking over our shoulder and great written is
looking up to the future.
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Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I am very grateful to my Noble Friend for calling this very important debate. My constituency
important debate. My constituency and rural communities and also times
and rural communities and also times with the industrial history which is famous all over the world. To champion better working conditions
19:40
Imogen Walker MP (Hamilton and Clyde Valley, Labour)
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champion better working conditions and showed productivity does not have to come at the cost of workers
19:41
Jo White MP (Bassetlaw, Labour)
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have to come at the cost of workers
19:41
Imogen Walker MP (Hamilton and Clyde Valley, Labour)
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rights. This was a proud coalmining area for 200 years. With textiles
area for 200 years. With textiles and heavy industry making them and industrial. Be reckoned with, but our towns are showing the neglect of 15 years under the Tories and 18
15 years under the Tories and 18 years of the SNP. The work of the people that built our nation was not
respected or rewarded by either Government for all of us to see in the boarded-up shops in the High
the boarded-up shops in the High Street.
When it comes to demonstrating what our priorities are, what a difference a year makes.
are, what a difference a year makes. And with the UK Government finding
£15.9 billion a year for the Scottish Government, this is the biggest settlement in the history of the devolution and there is more,
the devolution and there is more, investment zones with direct investment and that Strategic
Defence Review. But my constituents have told me time and time again
have told me time and time again they do not understand why this e- services being rebuilt south of the border but not at home.
Sadly, I
border but not at home. Sadly, I know the answer, bad deals, bad investments, bad decisions and I can
see there are no SNP MPs here this evening and I sorry to say, business
bigger, that does not surprise me, however it does send a clear message
to my constituents. I know what my communities are capable of, given
the chance, and what we have done less than a year of Government is so important, the change has already begun and we are here to see it
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through. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got a very short few minutes to speak and I would be happy to write to my Honourable Friends and Honourable
19:42
Rushanara Ali MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Bethnal Green and Stepney, Labour)
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Honourable Friends and Honourable Members to provide further detail. I want to congratulate my honourable
friend for securing this very important debate and return the
contributions and interventions to highlight the strong views and patient commitments that Honourable
Members have to their constituencies and in highlighting the challenges
faced in those residential areas which are deep, structural, and long-term. My honourable friend has
pointed out some inequalities at the regional inequalities that our
country faces and that have been exacerbated in the recent decades.
We have a responsibility, a duty, to turn that around. This Government is committed to doing that. The devolution agenda is central to that
work, that is one of the key areas
that this department is leading on, devolving power, devolving budgets, so that local areas can shape their
future and make sure that all communities benefit and those
historical inequities are addressed. This Government has already provided
additional funding of £3.4 billion to the Government in the form of grant funding.
We are also developing a long-term housing
strategy and we have committed billions of pounds in investment in
housing in also investing £1.5 billion in our Plan for
Neighbourhoods. My Honourable
Friends raised a number of issues to do with the investment strategy. Another business secretary will be monitoring very closely the points
raised in ensuring that we support the ceramics, we support broadband,
we make sure that industries within
these communities are harnessed as steel was raised, quite rightly, and Honourable Members will be aware of
the work that the business secretary has done.
The investments are key to economic growth and development, the industrial strategy is, of course,
vital in the previous Government we
had many promises of the industrial strategy that did not happen, we are determined to address that. I want
determined to address that. I want
to point to the fact that this Government has committed a record £2.5 million of investment which we announced last week with fusion
investment which a prototype fusion energy in my Honourable Friends
constituency of Bassetlaw.
I know that project will generate over 10,000 jobs alone. This Government
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is committed to renewing our economy, tackling regional inequalities. Order. The House do stand
This debate has concluded