Commons Chamber

Thursday 3rd April 2025

(began 1 week ago)

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None Portrait Oral questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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West number one.
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None Portrait Q1. What steps her Department is taking to help promote rugby league. (903594)
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pay tribute to the work that rugby league clubs do across the country, and the Wigan Warriors who smashed
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None Portrait Q2. What discussions she has had with representatives of the creative industries on the use of AI. (903596)
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boxes and lecture this government in light of the mess that his
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None Portrait Q9. What recent assessment she has made of the potential impact of the planned increase in employer National Insurance contributions on creative industries. (903603)
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Question Number 10.
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None Portrait Topical questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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This Labour government is wasting
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None Portrait Oral questions: Church Commissioners and House of Commons Commission and Public Accounts Commission and Restoration and Renewal Client Board and Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission
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We come to questions for the Church Commissioners.
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None Portrait Q1. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what recent discussions the Church Commissioners have had with the Charity Commission on Project Spire. (903583)
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Question number one.
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None Portrait Q3. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church of England has made of the potential impact of the US government’s Middle East policies on Christian inhabitants in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. (903585)
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Lets us come to the next member.
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Marsha De Cordova Portrait Marsha De Cordova MP (Battersea, Labour)
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I want to thank my honourable friend for his important and timely question. The ongoing de facto annexation of parts of the West Bank and threats to annex parts of Gaza are incredibly disturbing. In February, the heads of churches in Jerusalem issued a joint statement against the threat of mass displacement. I agree with them that there can be no justification for uprooting people who are already suffering beyond all measure. He is right to outline that international law must be upheld, and there are significant concerns at what is taking place with Israel at the moment.

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Thank you Mr Speaker for. The Dean of Salisbury Cathedral came to Dean of Salisbury Cathedral came to visit me to talk about the visit he had made to the NASA family farm just south of Bethlehem near the Palestinian village. And he expressed to me grave concerns about expressed to me grave concerns about the situation that the family finds itself in. I would like to ask the honourable lady what conversations she has with the Foreign Secretary about steps the government is taking about steps the government is taking to fend the rights of Palestinians in the West Bank and confirm the

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government will raise abuses of their rights with the Israeli government? Could I thank my honourable

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Could I thank my honourable friend for his question on this important issue. I continue to important issue. I continue to engage with the Foreign Secretary's team and office on this issue. What team and office on this issue. What I will commit to doing is I will write to the government yet again about the issue and ensure that they about the issue and ensure that they are defending and protecting the rights of all Palestinians. I think we can all agree across this House we can all agree across this House that we need to see an end to this violence, and an end to the killing of innocent people.

 Number four Mr Speaker. recently met with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to discuss the importance of the scheme's future, and the impact that any changes will continue to have.
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None Portrait Q5. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the Restoration and Renewal Client Board, what recent progress the Client Board has made on consulting hon. Members on the restoration and renewal programme. (903587)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Question number five.

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Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I thank my honourable friend for her question? The Restoration and
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None Portrait Q6. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the Restoration and Renewal Client Board, what steps the Client Board is taking to ensure that contractors from all parts of the UK are used in the restoration of the Palace of Westminster. (903589)
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Question number six.
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None Portrait Q8. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church Commissioners have made of the potential impact of the £25,000 cap in the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme on church repairs. (903591)
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Question number eight. least 200 projects have been identified as likely to be affected by the cap on claims. This includes by the cap on claims. This includes cathedrals and many parish churches cathedrals and many parish churches
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None Portrait Q9. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, whether the Church of England is taking steps to help ensure that its ownership of mineral rights to lithium in Weardale contributes to economic growth in that area. (903592)
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The Church Commissioners granted an option over its rights to a an option over its rights to a specialist exploration company in 2023. They have invested significantly in the local economy which is expected to increase as exploration continues.
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None Portrait Q10. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, whether she is taking steps to help support churches in Broxtowe to meet the criteria for a gold Eco Church Award. (903593)
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Question 10. with Rochford UK to meet net zero targets was grants are being awarded to parishes to help them make quick to parishes to help them make quick wins in reducing their running costs such as energy-efficient light bulbs and modern heating systems.
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None Portrait Business Statement: Business Questions to the Leader of the House
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let the Frontbench changeover. Well the leader of the give us the future business?
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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the future business? I shall. Monday, 7 April, general

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I shall. Monday, 7 April, general debate on road maintenance followed by a general debate on neighbourhood policing and tackling town centre policing and tackling town centre crime. Tuesday, 8 April, general debate on potential merits of awarding a posthumous Victoria Cross to Blair main followed by a general debate on matters to be raised before the forthcoming adjournment. The subjects of these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee. The house will rise for the Easter recess at the conclusion of business on Tuesday, 8 April and return on Tuesday, 22 April.

The business for the week commencing 21 April includes duty 22 April, second reading of the sentencing guidelines presentence report spell. Wednesday, 23 April, opposition day six allotted a debate on a motion in the name of the Lib Dems, subject to be announced. Thursday, 24 April, remaining stages of the bank resolution recapitalisation bill loads. Friday, 25 April, Private Members' Bills. The provisional business for the week commencing 28 April will include Monday, 28 April, second reading of the football governance Bill Lourdes.

Tuesday, 29 April, remaining stages of the public authorities Energy Bill. Wednesday, 30 April, Committee of the whole House and remaining stages of the sentencing guidelines presentence report spell. Thursday, 1 May, business to be determined by the Backbench Business Committee. Friday, 2 May, the house will not be setting.
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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Thank you. It is some weeks away yet, but this is the last moment I will have to wish you and all members of this House and staff are very happy Easter. I hope I may do that. Easter is a joyous occasion for the families and inappropriate amounts of chocolate. I will be making Shadow leaders legendary hot cross buns. I should say not much of the mix makes it into the oven but that is part of the joy.

It is lucky that we have several weeks to look forward to Easter because this week has not been one of joy. We will be debating tariffs later, but obviously, we have had the impact of the National Insurance rises which have pushed up costs making it harder than ever to hire a new employee blocking routes for young people. But my question is what on earth is happening in Birmingham? As the house will recall, it is now in the fifth week of the strike over bin collection, so this matter concerns just a few dozen over 9500 city council employees, including tons of rubbish building up, 900 tons a week.

Let's not forget that damning spin collection were reportedly 3 1/2 times worse than the worst of other councils even before the strike took place. The public health implications are now so dire that the council has declared a major incident. And of course, this comes on top of two other recent fiascoes. The athletes village to host competitors to the Commonwealth Games in 2022. It was never used and sold with a cost to taxpayers of about £20 million. We try to install a shiny new Oracle IT system.

Result was a disaster whose costs are set to reach 216 million by April 2026 according to experts. It has been controlled by Labour as a city for well over a decade, but my point is not about the council. It's about the government. The Minister for local government let the cat out of the bag in his statement on this topic on Tuesday. He said Birmingham's waste service has been in urgent need of modernisation and transformation for many years. Practices in the way service have been a source of one of the largest crises in modern history, resulting in costs of over £1 billion for the people of Birmingham.

This situation cannot continue. The Prime Minister went further in his own remarks yesterday saying the situation in Birmingham is completely unacceptable. But neither the Minister nor the Prime Minister has yet offered any Minister has yet offered any criticism at all of Unite whose action is the cause of all this rotting refuse in the streets. Unite was Labour's biggest union donor before the general election, giving 553 £900 although not the leader of the I am very pleased to say.

Does the leader think they could be any relationship between the government's reluctance to call out unite now on this disastrous situation Birmingham and half £1 million in donations that its MPs have just received? Some members of this house may see this whole situation as in really reminiscent of the 1970s, and especially Labour's winter of discontent when striking binmen caused refuse to pile up across major cities including Birmingham. But my worry is not about the past. It is about the future. Labour consistently backed public sector strikes when they were in opposition, appoint the prime minister conveniently forgot to mention yesterday.

Now they are in power, they have thrown money at the unions hand over fist with little or no negotiated improvements. Let's not forget that Northern Rail have even said the union agreements require them to use fax machines in dealing with unions. There is a serious point here. But this moment, we are abolishing NHS England and taking direct control of the NHS itself. Does anyone seriously think that a government that is incapable of calling out its union donors over bin collections will have any ability at all to withstand pressure from the NHS? What will that do to cost control and productivity to public spending and to inflation? I would be grateful if the leader could reflect on these issues in her remarks.
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Thank you very much. Can I also join the shadow leader in welcoming everybody happy Easter and hoping that people do resist eating too much chocolate and hot cross buns, especially those many members who are on diets at this time of year as well. But actually, today is a day that we should all reflect because we do face unprecedented times which have the potential to change the global trade consensus of the last 80 years that have brought this country and most Western countries are great deal of prosperity.

We are still assessing the new tariffs and we will shortly hear from the trade secretary about that in more detail. But just as Pres Trump is acting in what he believes is his national interest, we will always act in our national interest and we will do whatever is necessary to protect British jobs, British businesses, and British consumers. And I'm sure he will agree with me that in any eventuality, securing the long sought economic deal with our closest partner the US, which the prime minister has been leading now for many months is in our national interest and I'm sure the whole House will support him in those endeavours.

And as the shadow leader says, this is the start of the new financial year this week and the annual operating of bills, and it is also a very worrying time for families. The cost of living crisis is not yet over, and many people will be wondering as the month begins how long the paycheck will last, and we have inherited a very difficult situation and the global trade war will not help that, but we are determined to detect working people. That is what we're all about.

We are about making work pay with the employment rights bill. We have seen an increase to the national living wage and for young people, the National Minimum Wage, after £10 an hour. That is an unprecedented uplift. In the state pension will increase by £470. And we will take the action that we need to do to get our bills down in the long-term, whether that is water, energy and elsewhere. He raises the situation in Birmingham. I was in Birmingham just last week, visiting my in-laws and my husband's family, and the situation there is totally unacceptable.

It is awful what people are living with, and we want to see it and immediately. And I am happy to say to the honourable gentleman that I have no problem in saying that the trade union at Unite, they absolutely need to step up here and get back round the table. And come to an agreement. There is a reasonable agreement on the table and the trade union and the council should come to that very quickly. But I do gently say to the honourable gentleman that I don't think the situation in Birmingham actually paints anybody in particular glory, and to make some party political point about it doesn't serve him too well because actually, the honourable gentleman and other members opposite might have a short memory but this is a failure of successive leadership of the council, including and particularly the Tory LibDem coalition of the early to thousands which was a critical phase.

It was a critical phase in resolving the equality pay dispute which other councils at that time including Manchester and other cities during that period dealt with, and they duck their head in the sands about it. And if he wants to have a discussion about local government finances and what has happened, under his government again, local government absolutely staffed finances for 14 years. Month after month we saw councils going bust under his government, including Tory councils like Northamptonshire and Thurrock and other Tory councils as well.

We put record investment into local government. We will be bringing forward a devolution bill later this year which will also But for him to raise with me the impact of industrial action on working people of this country after what his government presided over. In our NHS, in our rail, we saw more days of industrial action under the Conservative government that we have seen under Labour because that is what they want to do, every time, cause conflict, and industrial action.

We have seen an end to the industrial action in our NHS and that is why we have seen waiting lists go down every single month for five months. That is why we have seen another 2 million doctors appointments because the strike action ended. Under his watch, when the rail companies boasted about free cash from the government for their rail contracts and had records days lost by industrial action, we put an end to that. We got the country back working in the interests of working people and I will take no lectures from him.
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I thank her for raising this issue with me which was raised with me also last week in Business Questions by the honourable Member for Widnes and Halewood. She is right, as we approach the anniversary of the Hillsborough tragedy, we should remember that 97 lives lost. All the families affected, but also the years and years of fighting for justice and for accountability. The years that the families have suffered since. Frankly in the face of the state in most cases fighting against them.

It is something that we should all endeavour to put right. As she says, the Prime Minister and the whole government, myself included, we remain focused on fulfilling our commitment to that Hillsborough. On bringing forward and enacting a Hillsborough Law which of course includes a duty of candour at all times. A very important measure to take forward. I think the most important issue at this time is to ensure that the legislation reflects the full range of concerns and experiences, and meet the expectations of the families.

The worst thing you can do at this point in time is to not meet those expectations when all of the trust and issues there are about the state failing to live up to those expectations of the family. We are working on the bill at pace. It will take whatever time is necessary to work collaboratively with the families and their representatives because getting that legislation right is actually our overwhelming priority at this time.
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. In addition to the business that the leader has announced, it is disappointing that we have not got the 24 April. My reading of that is that it is a reading of that is that it is a noncontroversial bill and likely to finish early. That means we will be denied opportunity to have a debate on St George's Day which is of course on 23 April. For a debate on Parkinson's awareness month which is in April. But when we come back on 1 May, we are contemplating organising three 390 minute debates given that members will be elsewhere campaigning and that would allow some issues to be debated.

We want to know if the leader could confirm when the debates will be in May? By my reckoning there are only about four dates it could be and we have to both advertise for opportunity for people to apply, and also decide which debates will be chosen. In addition, the business of Westminster Hall on Tuesday the eighth will be a debate on persecution of Christians. When we come back on the on 22 April, there will be a debate on residential estate management companies.

I remind colleagues that that will be Monday hours so the debate will start at 1130 rather than 930. On Thursday the 24th a debate on Lesbian Visibility Week to be followed by a debate on trading relationship with the EU, topical given that tariff arrangements have just been announced. On Tuesday 29th of April, there will be a debate on compensation for criminal injuries. Most of our allies have indicated their objection to the reappointment of the special UN wrapper to fully occupied territories, this is a woman who has attempted to justify atrocities on 7 October 2023.

She has repeatedly excused atrocities committed by terrorists, yet is apparently to be reappointed by the UN. At the moment our allies have called this out. But there has been total silence from the Foreign Secretary or any of our ministers will stop could we ask for a statement on what the government is going to do to instruct our representative as to how they will vote and whether they will register

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their strong objections? I thank the chair of the

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I thank the chair of the Backbench Business Committee, as ever, for organising so many well
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None Portrait Ministerial statement: UK-US Trade and Tariffs - Secretary of State for Business and Trade
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State. With your permission, I would like to make a statement on the
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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like to make a statement on the United Kingdom's economic relationship with the United States. The UK has a strong and balanced trading relationship with the US worth £315 billion which supports over 2.5 million jobs across both our countries. This is second only to the EU where our trading relationship is worth £791 million -- billion. Yesterday evening, the United States announced a 10% reciprocal tariff on exports and today announced a 25% global tariff on cars. This follows the application of tariffs of 25% on US import of steel, aluminium and derivative products that was announced on 12 March.

No country was able to secure an exemption from these announcements, but the UK did receive the lowest reciprocal tariff globally. Although this vindicates the pragmatic approach this covenant has taken, we know that while these tariffs are still being levied, the job is far from done. We are of course disappointed by the increase in tariffs on the UK and in other countries around the world. The impact will be felt amongst all trading nations. But I would like to update the House on how the UK can navigate these turbulent times, acting in our national interest and for the benefit of all our industries.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank my American counterparts, secretary of commerce, US trade representative, and Special Envoy Mark Burnett for their engagement over the last few months. While any imposition of tariffs is deeply regrettable, from the beginning they promised to make themselves available and have been true to their word. And look forward to our continued engagement over the days ahead. As members will know, since the new US administration took office, my colleagues and I have been engaged in intensive discussions on an economic deal between the US and the UK.

One that would not just avoid the imposition of significant tariffs but that would deepen our economic relationship. And everything from defence, economic security, financial services, machinery, tech and regulation, there are clear synergies between the US and UK markets. And this is reflected in the fair and balanced trading relationship that already exists between our two countries. I can confirm that the House that those talks are ongoing and will remain so. It is this government's view that a deal is not just possible, it is favourable to both countries.

And that this course of action serves Britain's interests as an open facing trading nation. I have been in contact with many businesses across a broad range of sectors, including those most affected who are very much welcoming this approach. It's clear to me that industry themselves want to grasp the opportunity a deal can offer, and they welcome this government's coolheaded approach. In increasingly insecure times, I have heard some members cling to the security or simple answers and loud voices.

I understand the compulsion, but I caution members of this House to keep calm and remain clear eyed on what is in our national interests, not to simply proclaim that we follow the actions of other countries. The British people rightly expect this government to keep our country secure at home and abroad. And an unnecessary escalating trade war would serve neither purpose. True strength comes in making the right choices at the right time. And thanks to the actions of our Prime Minister, who has restored Britain's place in the world stage, the UK is in a unique position to do a deal where we can and respond when we must.

It remains our belief that the best route to economic stability for working people is a negotiated deal with the US that builds on our shared strengths. However, we do reserve the right to take any action we deem necessary if a deal is not secured. To enable UK to have any and every option open to us in future, and today launching a request for input of the implications for British businesses of possible retaliatory action. This is a formal step necessary for us to keep all options on the table.

We will seek the views of UK stakeholders over four weeks until 1 May 2025. On products that could potentially be included in any UK tariff response. This exercise was -- will also give businesses the chance to have their say and influence the design of any possible UK action. If we are in a position to agree an economic deal with US, that left the tariffs that have been placed on our industries, this request for input will be paused and any measures flowing from that will be lifted.

Further information on the request for input will be published on Gov.UK later today. Alongside an indicative list of potential products that the government considers most appropriate for inclusion. I know this will be an anxious time for all businesses, not just those with direct trade links to America. And let me say very clearly that we stand ready to support businesses through this. That starts by making sure they have reliable information and any business which is concerned about what these changes mean for them can find clear guidance and support on.gov.uk where there is now a bespoke webpage.

This Government was elected to bring security back to working people's lives at a time of volatility, businesses and workers alike are looking to the government to keep our heads, to act in our national interest and to navigate Britain through this period. And whilst some urge escalation, I simply will not play politics with people's jobs. This government will strive for a deal that supports our industries and the well-paid jobs that come with them while preparing our trade defences and keeping all options on the table.

It is the right approach to defend the U.K.'s domestic industries from the direct and indirect impacts of US tariffs in a way which is both measured and proportionate. While respecting the rules-based international trading system. As the world continues to change around us, British workers and businesses can be assured of one constant, and that this is a government that will not be said of course in choppy waters. So the final part of our approach will be to turbo boost the work this Government is doing to make our economy stronger and more secure, including our new industrial strategy.

And we will strike trade deals with our partners and work closely with our allies our shared prosperity. We have a clear destination to deliver that economic security for working people. We are progressing a deal that can do that. We are laying the foundations to move quickly, should it not, and we are ensuring British business have a clear voice in what happens next, and I commend this statement the House.
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Andrew Griffith Portrait Andrew Griffith MP (Arundel and South Downs, Conservative)
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I think the Secretary of State for advanced site of his statement. Businesses, workers and their families woke up this morning with greater fear and more uncertainty about the future. Tariffs make us all poorer by pushing up costs, suppressing demand, and making the pound in our pocket by less of the things that we need. It's free trade, to which we our past prosperity and free trade which has lifted millions out of poverty since the Second World War. So this is a moment of calm words and cool heads, and we will support the government when it does sensible things to reverse the impact on our already fragile economy.

I'm glad the government has recommitted to reaching a deal with our closest ally and largest single country trading partner. But this is also a moment of honesty and telling the truth. The government sadly got no special favours from the White House last night. The Secretary of State prefers to vindication. This is no vindication at all. We are in precisely the same band as the Congo, Costa Rica, Kosovo and the Christmas islands. In fact, I count over 125 countries and territories that have the same tariff levels as the US as we now do.

So not that special. Our automotive manufacturers face unchanged tariffs of 25% and around £8 billion worth of cars and auto part exports. Steel and alimony exports remain at 25%. And on the volume -weighted basis, our exports face an average tariff of closer to 13%. Above all, last night was a vindication of those who were pilloried and abused for wanting our country to have the freedom to decide our own trade If Labour and the Liberal Democrats had their way, we would still be in the EU.

Thousands of British jobs have been saved as a result. I hope they had the decency to regret the 48 times they voted to stay in Europe and thank us for getting Brexit done. Last week the OBR warned that these tariffs could warned that these tariffs could It is good this is a of It is good this is a of the It is good this is a of the economy. The government has piled on headwinds when needed support. They have put a tax on jobs, doubled business rates, introduced the family death tax, and are barrelling ahead with flawed recycling tax.

To help British exporters survive they must urgently tackle the skyhigh energy costs. A business in the West Midlands, Birmingham, faces energy costs four times their competitor in Birmingham, Alabama, the US, it works the impact on tariffs and is no basis on which to compete. The Secretary of State was responsible for the Employment Rights Bill which will the so hard that the OBR has not begun to assess how much it will hurt the economy. In the national interest, the Secretary of State has gone back to his department and instructed officials to shelve the bill today.

Put ideology aside. Put the unions on hold. The governments on the side of British business. The cost of failure is too high. The burden is too great. He must act burden is too great. He must act fast. I conclude with questions on all our business. Will he publish an urgent assessment on the impact of the tariffs on the UK economy so markets can see if the sum still top or should be back for now access.

When will he give the clarity required? Will they undertake to keep Parliament informed and publish the broader objectives of the UK in these trade negotiations with the US, precisely as the previous government did in March, precisely as the previous government did in March 2020? Will they assure us that any deal will back British farmers and food producers and uphold high environmental protection and eye -- animal welfare standards. Will he reallocate additional resources across government to fund a new version.

What consideration is the government giving to the special situation in Northern Ireland? Will he guarantee all claims under the Duty Reimbursement Scheme will be paid promptly and the government will commit additional resources when required? Kindly reassure us that in the event UK did see major trade distortion, the government would be prepared if necessary to trigger Article 16 of the Windsor Framework? Will he reassure the House any concessions to UK tech giants on the digital services tax will not shift the burden to the UK small businesses? On this side of the House, we are on the side of business.

We understand the gravity of the situation and we will support the government where it acts in the national interest. I hope they take this moment seriously and get back around a table with US counterparts and involve the House and deliberations.
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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I thank the Shadow Minister for the statement. I recognise his commitment to free trade and the case he has made for that which I believe we broadly sure. He is a bit flippant about the position we find ourselves in today. He mentioned Christmas Island and a series of countries without the complex trading relationships we have with the US. You can see in my presentation that there is disappointment from me that we are in this position but the EU is facing 20%, Japan, 24%, India, 26%, and there are issues in Canada and Mexico and we are a more favourable position than those key friend and I live but in relation to the fattest marks on us, it is a particular concern and he brings in Brexit and perhaps not the finest hour in terms of state preparation, but let's pass that over.

As the President, I am of the view we can set our own trade policy but I would say this to all colours, is it not time to unite the country about the future? I think half the country voting one way and half the other, let's do it together and look to the future because that is the right way forward. This is an important point, it is a false choice to see this as being presented as a choice between working with the US or EU.

We can do it consistently and we should be committed to that and he asked about the implications for the UK and reversing the policy choices made in 14 years and I will go through all of us. In relation to the Spring Statement, the Chancellor has brought the headroom caused by this to our place is substantially higher than under the last government. There was no relief whatsoever under the Conservatives and there was no longevity. I have not received any credible proposals from the party opposite to pay for the spending cuts but I always available to receive those in writing.

He asks for reassurance and we are always happy to provide that. He knows we are more pragmatic on things like the mandate for the sector and also transport routes on that and there is the publication of the response to the consultation and I will not comment on details of the rest. I think colleagues would expect that but there is a commitment to food standards, food safety, and we will standards, food safety, and we will adhere to that.

We are eminently going to discuss further support. Northern Ireland, I incredibly important issue, there is the potential for an in differential response from the EU to our situation and it is difficult and this is the key policy because goods entering Northern Ireland from the entering Northern Ireland from the US I then subject to reimbursement on the single market and we must make sure that works well and I recognise his points on that. I will continue to discuss this further and I recognise how important this is and the role of our constituents and we must keep all colleagues engaged.
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Daisy Cooper Portrait Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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I thank the business secretary for his state in advance. Donald Trump has launched a destructive trade war that threatens the jobs and living standards of people across the UK and around the world. Let's be clear. This is not about reciprocity nor a level playing Is creating trade barriers and doing it on purpose. This is Donald Trump saying to the UK he will only lower tariffs if we lower standards and he is telling us to sell out firms and farmers are else and we must give protections against online scammers and for children's safety to US tech barons or else.

If the government gives into the threats, it will only encourage him to use the same bullying tactics again and again. It is simultaneously true that the way that the White House has made this cruel calculation makes the negotiation position a bit better than other countries and we genuinely welcome that. I say this with regret, there is no sign that government lobbying has borne any fruit, given we have been put on the same machine as other countries such as Honduras, Peru, Guatemala.

This must be a wake-up call. The Liberal Democrats believe we must end the trade war as quickly as possible and that means standing from its allies against the attempts of Trump to divide and conquer. The government take urgent steps to bring us together in an economic coalition of the willing against the tariffs? We welcome this one month of consultation with business. Will the government confirmed it will look at energy costs and business rates confirm, especially with the car industry? And, at the same time, but the consultation be run in parallel? We must look at the use of retaliatory tariffs in a coordinated way.

When the sea government expect to publish the impact of these tariffs on small businesses and the cost of living and jobs? Will be look at creating a bespoke customs union? The UK would not be in the worst position if the government had heeded calls to negotiate a customs union. Even the Conservative Party should be able to see that footy has been -- to Ake has been since then and are likely to be hit with Paris. -- Turkey. Will the Government rule out they will not water down the digital services tack to appease his billionaire backers?
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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I am grateful to the honourable member for a contribution and I'm certain I character demanding they escalate the trade war on the video last week and I do not think that is in our interests. She mentions no side benefit of being treated in a different way and she will know that the US have a different view of VAT and we competed to the sales tax and there is a differential and I believe we could get to a position where we are not only avoiding additional tariffs but we could be deepening the relationship and removing barriers, particularly in trade and surpluses.

That is the objective. We will work closely with the whole range of friends but when they go into any negotiation they represent national interest and I represent national interest and I would not expect any country to do that and they will have their own interests and I do the same for the UK and I put our interests first. There is a different structure to the relationship. The US does not have a large deficit with the EU China so it is a different level of conversation and allows us to put our own interests first and that is all we see you do with government.

She mentions a range of options which I identify and I have strong views on the increases in industrial energy costs which have led to an almost 50% increase in real terms and the industrial strategy and other issues and wider objectives and tools we have, this is more in terms of the consultation and the call for input would be in relation to this and the formal steps we have to do to tick the impact from business itself the chance to produce forward as part of the announcement today, which I say, would not be necessary if we joined and all members of the House will want to see us do that and I believe the relationship could be deepened and although it does not cover the cost of other relationships, we must get it right, such as the one between ourselves and the EU and I welcome support from all sides of the House in fulfilling that the House in fulfilling that
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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He will know as a former Treasury Minister the kind of work that goes on to make sure those assessments are made. The announcement was made late last night. We had the chance to respond yesterday evening and this morning to it. He will also appreciate that the impact on the UK is not just about the direct relationship between the US and the UK but what happens in the wider global trading system, how other countries choose to react to the announcements in the US will be the determining factor for the impact upon the UK, and we will not know that at this stage, but I promised him I will keep the House updated and him personally if you wish is that any stage as we work to assess what the impact will be on the UK.

But also I believe all mamas of Parliament should be a time for reassurance, become heads for, thickly information to British business and how we will navigate

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these difficult times. I suspect that the opposition

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I suspect that the opposition front bench are still trying to propagate the arguments of 2016 bit drunken fluorinated chicken. We need drunken fluorinated chicken. We need to get real. Celebrating a tariff of to get real. Celebrating a tariff of 10% rather than 20% is like celebrating that when you got mugged, they only take your wallet mugged, they only take your wallet and not your watch as well. That's and not your watch as well. That's why the British public deserve better.

That's why I'm grateful that the Secretary of State is talking about our relationship with Europe because who knows what President Trump will bring next week. We do five times more business with the European Union than we do with America. It is in our interest to have a close and stable trading relationship with Europe, but right now, that is up for grabs too. Sick of the secretary of state just set out for is what this now means for his negotiations on the European research and the summit in May? I would just be clear again, no one is celebrating the position we find ourselves in as a country.

No one is celebrating that. We recognise the differential that the UK finds itself in, but all of us, I believe on all sides of the House are disappointed by the announcements from the United States and are seeking to provide a way through that. I reiterate her, I know she feels very strongly about this, this is not a choice between the US and the EU. It doesn't have to be. These are two key and long- term and important trading partners and actually security and defence partners as well.

The EU summit she mentions next month is a key event. Our aspirations for an ambitious EU reset on a trade basis to rectify some of the flaws in the agreement agreed under the previous government remain our objectives there, clear and all in the manifesto that we on this side of the House stood on and won the election, so that remains a key priority and again I share with out the alignment between the EU reset and this negotiation is very

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strong within government. The Business Secretary delayed
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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She reminds me I didn't get a chance to respond to the opposition front bench, but I do feel if we came to Parliament today following these announcements in the United States and said you know the answer to this is that lower paid people aren't going to get the sick pay they are otherwise going to get under this Labour government, I think that would be the wrong response to the kind of announcements we have seen. And again as if it will be scapegoating the wrong people for difficult things that have nothing to do with their own position in the UK economy.

My honourable friend asks a number of questions very skilfully in terms of how many she leveraged into that question. There are real differences of opinion between ourselves and the United States and something like VAT. We would say that it applies, does apply to domestically produced goods as much as goods that come into the UK and that is not trade distorting and indeed the relationship, the balance of trade between the US and UK is evidence of that. The argument from the US is slightly different.

I will not go into the content of all of the negotiations as she will appreciate, but success in any negotiation is recognising the other side's argument, putting Iran forward but be willing to get around the table and do that, and that's the approach of this government.

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That's the way forward. We must stand up to this bully
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Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP, Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Stalybridge and Hyde, Labour )
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Externally grateful to him for his question. He's absolutely articulate in our approach, that we are not complacent or happy, we are disappointed with any tariffs being imposed on the UK. We recognise the lowest band being applied to the UK, but it doesn't mean we won't redouble our efforts to secure the kind of agreement which offers a way through that. Brayford hit the spot from his constituents for that that's what he and every part of the country. Generally this is the approach business wants to take.

It's calm, I'm not sure it's called, but it's calm and I hope reassuring to businesses in his area, and where a lot of people are always offering advice in this area, always at times offering to escalate a conflict to a point which they perhaps haven't got a plan to de-escalate from, this government's approach is always to be pursuing our national interest to be working with partners to be looking at their mutual reciprocal benefits we could get from doing this right, and externally grateful for the level of support across all

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parts of the House today towards this policy. Thank you. Is the end of the very lengthy

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Is the end of the very lengthy statement on UK-US trade and tariffs. I'm now going to be one of the Select Committee statement. If the ministers in Frontbench wish to the ministers in Frontbench wish to the ministers in Frontbench wish to
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Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
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Today, the housing communities and local government Select Committee publishers our first report following our children enquiry. I would like to thank community for granting time for the statement and thank the committee staff for their acceptance in creating this report. This morning, 160,000 children woke up without a roof over their head. There parents not able to sleep, worrying about the state of their accommodation and about when they will get a home of their own.

And when the numbers of children in temporary accommodation rose by 15% in the last year alone, we know there will not be affixed to this problem. That is why our first enquiry focuses on the stories on children in temporary accommodation. The impact increases the time that family should be spending. How can we expect children to have the best start to life when they are living out of suitcases. How can we expect them to grow up without the basis of a private bathroom or kitchen? How can we expect them to be ready for school when it takes them hours to get there on a route that is always changing? When a family with children becomes homeless, the local authority has a duty to provide housing to them until they can settle in a more permanent home.

This temporary housing could be private rented properties, short- term social housing, council owned properties or pay accommodations in hotels. Our enquiry found that temporary accommodations compete with inappropriate families, and they can be unfit for habitation. We heard cases of family living in accommodation with damp, excessive cold, and mice infestation. Temporary accommodation is often overcrowded. Sometimes children having to share beds with their parents or siblings. Babies not having placed a crawl or learn how to walk due to lack of floor space, and yet this accommodation is costing the public purse of fortune.

In 2023 to 2024, local authorities in England spent around 2.29 billion in temporary accommodation. London boroughs alone spend £4 million a day on temporary accommodation. The cost of homelessness service has led to at least one local authority to apply for financial support from the government. Representatives from local authorities across England who we heard from during the enquiry all agreed that the cost of Tempe accommodation is utterly unsustainable. Even the term temporary accommodation is misleading because these places are often far from temporary.

As of March 2024, more than 16,000 families had been in their accommodation for over five weeks. Can we all imagine starting secondary school in year seven and still not having a home of your own? This is the reality for so many families who are often voiceless and stuck in completely unsuitable accommodation. So, our report is titled England's homeless children, the crisis in temporary accommodation. Not only do we have a housing crisis that we have an acute crisis in temporary accommodation as well.

During our enquiry, we have conditions being so poorly they have a negative impact on children's health. We heard how they can lead to mental health conditions, and most shockingly of all, we have that temporary accommodation has been a contributing factor to the deaths of at least 74 children in the last five years. Of these children, 58 were under the age of one. In one of the richest countries in the world, this is shameful. This alone should inspire all of us to act urgently to bring an end to this crisis before more innocent lives are lost.

Why then are local authorities not required to inspect the quality of in temporary accommodation? There is no requirement for housing requirements to carry out in-person cheques on properties being used. Our report recommends the local authority should be carried out mandatory expections before it is used as temporary accommodation, and whenever new residents are placed there, to ensure the basic levels of suitability for children and their families. Perhaps the worst form of temporary accommodation is bed-and- breakfast accommodation. B&Bs are self-contained, meaning families must share facilities between strangers.

We had alarming cases of prisoners sharing bathrooms and kitchens with families. We had evidence of families being placed in housing with men with a history of Domestic Abuse Act. Local authorities must work with the government to put an end to these placements, to mitigate the clear safeguarding risks, demand pressures and some area for local authorities, to place homeless children outside the local area. Families are often left with no choice but to move away from everybody and everything they know. Their friends, their support network.

Sometimes not knowing when or if they will ever return. For children, it can mean hours driving to and from school or needing to move schools entirely. Just last week, new research from the Children's Commissioner highlighted a link between children in temporary accommodation and those with low GCSE results. Only 38% of children who moved home five times achieved GCSE results compared to 65% of children who had only one home address. Whilst we were not able to consider this local evidence in the enquiry, these findings demonstrate why we need to keep improving data collection and reporting across public services so we can fully understand the health and education impacts of child homelessness.

We also recommend that the government must establish a notification system so that a child's school is alerted when they become homeless. The government has set up a ministerial group which publishes a strategy on homelessness led to the shift. While we welcome the government's announcement, we recommend that the interministerial group should link the welfare report on homelessness, particularly the freezing of the local housing allowance. Fundamentally, England's housing crisis is an affordability crisis, and the same can be said the temporary accommodation.

We know what has caused this. There has been a failure of successive governments over decades to deliver new homes. As a committee, we support the ambition to deliver 1.5 million homes during this, but we also stand ready to help scrutinise those plans as they come forward. We must ensure that these are high quality and generally affordable. And of course, a long-term part of the strategy is a national target for affordable rent homes to promote this in the housing budget.

Building these homes is the long-term objective. Those children cannot wait. They need response from the government, and this is personal for me. I was placed in contemporary accommodation. I remember the joy and the relief of receiving those keys. Somebody we could build a home. Not having to carry your belongings around in a black bag. And I know that for 164,000 children, they would have to wait years for that same feeling and they will continue to suffer under an unacceptable system for two long.

I would like to thank my fellow committee members, the different homeless organisations, local authorities and others who presented evidence to our committee as part of this enquiry. We look forward to hearing the government's response and I commend this to the house.
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Sorcha Eastwood Portrait Sorcha Eastwood MP (Lagan Valley, Alliance)
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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that this house is considered the impact of digital platforms on UK Democracy Fund the I'm grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for the option of hosting this debate today. I thank the sponsors and members here. I want to begin by paying tribute to Jo Cox and Sir David Amess. Two public servant murdered. The very hatred and radicalisation that digital platforms fuel. We are digital platforms fuel. We are fuelling a, failing a whole generation, we are failing young people, we are failing young men being radicalised and exploited.

We are failing democracy itself, as misinformation and intimidation silenced voices and distort digital participation. Today's digital age supports a new unparalleled threat to our democracy. Social media is not without its benefits. It allows us to connect with constituents, and us to connect with constituents, and I'm sure all of us will be looked upon favourably if we did not engage in some shape or form in the online space. It has become one of the few ways young people engage with politics, that is a good thing.

It plays a pivotal role in demoting grassroots activism and create greater transparency. But we now face a national emergency of misinformation and digital violence. Families, teachers, even young people themselves are crying out for an overhaul. This past month we have seen stark reminders of the digital platforms. The release of 'Adolescence' has started a conversation about online misogyny. We only have to look at the cases of murders to see the horrifying world. The reality is that young men radicalised online don't just stay there.

They go out into the world and sometimes commit the most heinous acts of violence. The rising tide of online hate and radicalisation does not exist in isolation. Ideology and far right ideology are not just arriving in online spaces. They are being actively cultivated by the algorithms designed to maximise engagement and profit. And that is really important point about profit. I will come to that later. Esther Ghey, Brianna's mum has called social media a cesspit, and I'm sure members would agree.

She has called for under 16's band, and she is right about that. This crisis is not confined to one country, one background, or even one ideology. I want to make that point clearly too. The pattern remains the same. Parents are terrified, teachers powerless, children are being exploited right under our noses. All you have to do is look at the case of Alexander McCartney, a prolific paedophile who sat in his bedroom and abused children, thousands of children, right across the world.

The U.K.'s largest ever Fishing case. A man who used social media to blackmail, torment, and sexually exploit children across the world. Whenever I participated in a discussion last year on a bill, all of the big social media companies were present. I asked them, they were boasting about how the self regulated, and I asked them about the McCartney case.

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I congratulate your member for securing this debate and for the work she is doing to campaign on it. Does she agree on that point that, whilst there are some fantastic whilst there are some fantastic examples of social media being used positively to enhance democracy and Political parties, this is often Political parties, this is often reliant on benevolent and honest openings, and our democratic safeguards should not rest on the presumption of goodwill, and

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honesty. I thank him's intervention. It is a timely point. Should not be a timely point. Should not be outsourcing our children's safety to the whim of social media companies, and we heard earlier in the house in a previous debate about the impact of content moderation and how that potentially may or may not be forming part of discussions as we move forward in terms of trade agreements. In that room, with all those companies, only one had heard of that case.

That tells me everything that we need to about how seriously tech takes child safety. We should not take a TV show to make the government look at what has been impacting our society for years. Actions taken so far from the government have been inadequate. The meeting with the creators of 'Adolesecence' was welcome but is not enough. Talking about cultural change and tinkering at the edges will not fix this. We have to speak to these platforms and the only language they understand, profit.

And we know what is driving this. Algorithms, content systems, and the financial interests of big tech are actively steering vulnerable young people towards ever more extreme content. This is not a side effect. This is their business model. This is their business model. Fundamentally for me, this debate is about power. Who holds it and who wields it. And in whose name are they acting? Right now, it is big tech billionaires and online extremists working hand-in-hand, shaping our children, our democracy, and warping our society.

This government, too slow, too weak and too captured by vested interests to stop them. Figures like Andrew Tate have brought young men into there was a violent misogyny, violent conspiracy and ingratiating themselves with Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Does he care? Not a bit. He exploits them. This is not just an individual person behaving irresponsibly, this is a coordinated machine trying to drown out credible voices, spread misinformation and undermine public debate. Agitators and bullies like the Tate brothers have always existed.

But what has changed is the tools and platforms that they have at their disposal. And therefore the access to young people in particular. Let's be clear, there reach is not accidental. Agitate is amplified and monetised by the very platforms that claim to be unable to regulate online harm. This is not just about free speech, this is radicalisation. This is control, powerful malign actors, some overseas, some homegrown, are exploiting our young people and our political system for profit. These platforms are not neutral.

They push extremist content, deliberately,

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algorithmically and at scale. I'm very grateful to my

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I'm very grateful to my honourable friend for giving way and for the very clear way she is laying out the issues that we are talking out the issues that we are talking about today. I'm lucky enough to be one of the vice chairs of the all- party apology group on fair elections, one of our strands of work is on tackling misinformation and disinformation. One of the cores and disinformation. One of the cores I have heard is that at the very least the social media giant should have a duty to perform a risk have a duty to perform a risk assessment to look at the legal but harmful content, I think this covers some of the issues she is talking about today was the wood she agree

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that is the very least these platforms could do? I thank the member for her comments will stop I quickly agree. comments will stop I quickly agree. I think at the very least this is the bare minimum that they should be doing. A report by " Not Age" found that most boys in the UK under 18 that most boys in the UK under 18 have consumed content from Andrew have consumed content from Andrew Tate. On Elon Musk's 'X', his videos dominate young men's feeds.

If we dominate young men's feeds. If we allow this to continue we are handing digital platforms the power to dictate political debate, poison young minds and do erupt damage to our democracy. Of course the loudest free-speech warriors are the first to silence criticism. I know this person it was not after I called out Elon Musk for form extremism, the followers of Andrew Tate immediately descended on me with a flock of abuse and harassment. That was a deliberate attempt to silence an elected representative.

I was given death threats, rape jokes and abuse from people. Then the Tate brothers themselves came after me for top two men running from the most serious criminal charges propped up by the world's most powerful leaders, and they targeted to me, an elected represented from Northern Ireland, for daring to speak my mind. Not even about them, it was about Elon Musk. But it was a calculative attempt to silence an elected politician. I was, in their words, "A nice target.

" A direct attack on democracy and this House itself. But this is not just about individuals. It is about democracy. We have seen a deliberate organised effort to create an online environment where extremism flourishes, where intimidation becomes the norm and where women, minorities, and political opponents are driven out of public life.

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I thank the remember for this very important debate she has secured with a passionate speech was secured with a passionate speech was not she has raised the point which highlights that ripple effect if we don't challenge this. In the last don't challenge this. In the last general election we saw so many BME general election we saw so many BME candidates being targeted, a number of these from hidden social media of these from hidden social media accounts. Does she agree that if we don't deal with this issue, what we will see going forward is less

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will see going forward is less people coming forward putting themselves forward to stand for public office? Absolutely. I thank remember for her contribution. And I'm honoured that you are here today because I think a voice is still important in this. Last year whenever I was elected, I was very proud to be here as part of a diverse Parliament. I think it is something that is welcomed right across the House. I have to be honest and say that we have heard from many parliamentarians, not just here but across the UK, that if they had known what this was going to bring to their life, they would not have stepped forward.

And yet that is exactly what we need. These people want the voices to be silence. I will defend to the hilt people to express views that I absolutely do not agree with as they need to be heard too. But you make a really important point and I thank you for it. The Northern Ireland Electoral Commission has reported on the 2024 UK General Election and said over half the candidate reported harassment, divination, or abuse. Women were disproportionately targeted as were other minorities, often by anonymous accounts.

A points the member has just made. The consequences were immediate. Nilli 40% of candidates avoided campaigning, almost 20% avoided social media altogether. This is a system where voices are silenced before they are even heard. I've heard the same warnings from colleagues across this house. The chilling effect is real. Let's be clear, our democracy is under threat and the battlefield isn't just Parliament or the battle box. It is online where billionaire tech people are minute placing public opinion for their own ends.

The recent election should have been a routine democratic process instead it became a cautionary tale for the a pro- Russian candidate did not debate and spent nothing, and surged to the top of the first run. The election was annulled. It was digital interference in action. A warning for every European democracy including our own. If you think this is happening in Rumania think again. Here the UK after public service or misleading information about party policies and candidate string the last general election.

Nearly 1/4 of voters encountered election -related deep fakes, while 18% weren't even The people in control of these platforms aren't just bystanders. They are active participants. How is it that Elon Musk owns one of the world's biggest digital platforms. Remember when the silicon valley was to make society better. Those days are long gone. Now they have tasted power, now they are in the White House, endorsing things in Germany while algorithms put conspiracy theorist at the top of your speed.

This is the system. The system that rewards voices while drumming out facts and reasons. If we care about democracy here in the UK, we need to stop treating social media as political actors because we do not hold them to account, we are hold them to account, we are allowing misinformation to thread. For online abuses, anonymity is not protection. It is a weapon, and overwhelmingly, it is used as an artist. Anonymity once existed to protect the speaker from harm, but now, it enables the speaker to inflict harm with immunity.

This is not about free speech but part of the political strategy. A coordinated effort to undermine trust in institutions and create a hostile environment for everyone who dares challenge the status quo. When those let that happen, by getting a Private Member's Bill and by potentially scrapping a digital task, handing more money to the platforms where these predators thrive. They are sending the message, a message to every woman and every girl in this country, that their safety is not the government's problem.

But what needs to be done? We must apply these hate figures. Why is it being tolerated? It is too slow, too weak, and it harms have only worsened. Ministers are too afraid to stand up to tramp. There is no appeasing them, and our children's lives cannot be collateral damage in pursuit of growth. Meanwhile, Australia has taken decisive action. They have introduced a ban of social media for under 16's. That means children can legally sign up to platforms to self-harm content and extremist material.

More proof can this government need? It was watered down and abandoned. Why? Because this government prioritised big tax profits over well-being. We do not need any more of these consultations, but we do need courageous action. While this government did this, the trial for 15-year-olds and 35 hours a week on their phone, more than a full-time

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job, and yes I will. Are genuinely powerful speech. It

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Are genuinely powerful speech. It may be that the government is struggling to tackle the digital platforms themselves, but what a platforms themselves, but what a useful first step in banning telephones in schools up to the age

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of 16? He is absolutely right. This is a huge issue to grapple with, but what is clear is the evidence. There is a valid discussion to be had around valid discussion to be had around the use of phones. Some devices will be taken off them for a set period of time, but for me, when they get them back, what is on it? To conclude, who would want to be a child growing up today in this world? That is something really distressing and disturbing.

Radicalisation is just a click away. Misinformation spreads like wildfire and reputations are trashed in seconds. Those who are challenged are met with a wall of coordinated abuse. I wouldn't want to be growing up today. Political donations and photomanipulation, online bullying, deep fakes, mental-health problems, this is just the tip of the iceberg. And sadly, I don't have time today to cover it all, but I do know that we have a moral duty to protect young people for future generations, and I believe that everybody in this house genuinely believes that and wants to act upon it.

This is now a national security issue. Society becomes more violent, more fractured and dangerous for us all. We are at To allow people like Donald Trump to profit from poisoning minds of young people, or do we stand up for our children, our country and the fabric of our society? The government must act now, so I ask, what is stopping us? If not now, when? The time to act is today for the sake of our children and our very democracy.

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Thank you. The question is as only Order Paper.

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Paper. Thank you. I rise from the

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Thank you. I rise from the backbenches for the first time in many years having resigned my position as Minister for development position as Minister for development and for women and equalities. The view is much better from here as the
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Anneliese Dodds Portrait Rt Hon Anneliese Dodds MP (Oxford East, Labour )
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view is much better from here as the late great Robin Cook says, but I do deeply regret that I cannot continue to serve in the government but I campaigned for so long for. I wish my successors all the very best and I won't try their patients or yours by reprising the statements of my resignation letter. But I do want to explain why it is during this debate that I have chosen to break my silence. The new government entered office at a time of unprecedented geopolitical and economic flux.

There is no muscle memory in government or in politics for the instability we are currently seeing. And as democracy back slides, instability is the new normal. It demands a strategic not a tactical response. Economically, I believe that we must be prepared to look at the fiscal rules of Germany or on taxation. Especially when the very best have seen very little impact on their well-being from economic headwinds, and we must work with allies, particularly Europe and beyond to build our resilience on defence production and exports with productivity growth hammered by post-Brexit impediments to trade and also from US tariffs.

From Turkey to Somalia, people are desperate for democracy, stability and economic growth. In supporting them, we also support security. I therefore regret that on top of the huge cuts to overseas development assistance that led to my resignation, the shift to a cash basis may limit resources further. I welcome the prime ministers commitment to work closely with other countries to bridge some of that gap, but that must include radical action to tackle debt, protect life-saving health services and to support multilateral bodies as they come under attack from autocrats.

I believe that we need the same strategic tactical approach when it comes to the protection of our democracy. Last summer saw the worst racist bias in our country since the Second World War. None of us can forget those appalling scenes when racist thugs set fire to hotels knowing people remained inside and all in the name of three poor beautiful little girls may they rest in peace. The policing and criminal justice response was swift and I commend the government for that, but in this case and others, the influence of social media has not fully digested, let alone acted upon.

And there are many other canaries choking down the coal mine, not least due to the growth and impact of violent online misogyny. And here I commend honourable member for her steadfast campaigning, but also, even as she has received appalling abuse herself, she continues to stand for women and girls and I stand in solidarity with her as I know all members in this house should do. Considerable progress is being made to defend democracy by the new government through the task force of that name, the joint election security unit, the foreign influence registration scheme that was released a couple of days ago.

The speakers confluence focused on candidates, and the new ban on the creation and the sharing of sexually explicit deep fakes, they are focused on politicians or victims. But attempt to degrade our democracy, having involved actors from states which are not classified as hostile, and they have taken place outside of election times as well. Policy must deal with how things were 10 years ago but with the reality of an online world which is having huge off-line consequences.

First, I agree with the honourable lady that we lack tools to deal decisively with the growth in disinformation. The online safety act does include measures to protect content of importance, but without a clear definition of that content and with the advisory committee, apparently not having met yet. This must be remedied. Given that over half of people now receive news through social media, and that rises to 82% of young people. rises to 82% of young people.

Recommend algorithms, privilege engagement as it engages more, so I urge the government to consider including independent audits of recommended algorithms as contained in the EU's digital services act but not in the online safety act. Secondly, our new regime relies on antiquated separation of large from small platforms. Last summer, it showed how the far right switched from Telegram to YouTube to other platforms large and small. When they spread the disinformation, they don't keep that only on large platforms so regulators should be prepared to act on small platforms as well.

The new regime was created when the major complaint against platforms with a failing to heed platforms with a failing to heed their own rules. Now, they are firing misinformation with no minimum standards and the regime for platforms terms and service. I urge the government to look again at this with the care that I know the Minister always displays. Finally, we must work closely with others seeking to protect their democracies from Helsinki to Rio, and in that vein, paralleling the Prime Minister's EU defence partnership, surely they also need a UK structured dialogue on policy and their offence of our democracies.

In conclusion, I remain grateful to the Prime Minister and my party for providing me with eight months where I could seek to serve my country as a Minister of State. That was only possible because my constituents in Oxford East afforded me through their free choice the opportunity to represent them, and boaters free choice taken for granted so often and so precious is what is at risk

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Can I start by thanking the member Can I start by thanking the member for an excellent opening speech and it made me think I can contribute no it made me think I can contribute no more. It is worth saying that people who are speaking out in this debate who are speaking out in this debate are probably not fearful of technology itself. I consider myself
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Bobby Dean Portrait Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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a digital native, I grew up with MSN and MySpace. And I enjoy what social media brings. It has transformed our society in a way that is for the good. But without a doubt we do have a problem. We have a problem with content, we have people with addiction. And as the member articulated so clearly, we have a problem with power. I will begin with content. There has been a huge rise in the level of eight misogyny, violence, and pornography we are seeing in our social media feeds.

I'm certain that I'm not imagining it. I'm sure the stuff that pops up on my feet on X was not there a few years ago prior to the ownership of Elon Musk. The sort of thing that is pushed towards me as young man is a disgrace. A few months ago, I had a knife crime incident in my community yards away from my office. The footage of that circulated online within minutes. I am sure I'm not kidding myself that a handful of years ago, eventually that piece of content would be taken down.

Today, Facebook showed no interest in taking that down and it is still circulating around my community and shame on them for that. This sort of content rises to the top of our algorithms because it is emotionally charged. Disgusts, it enrages, and it sparks fear. And this works for social media companies because this is how they generate the profit. When you apply this kind of emotionally charged content to news, it means it is no longer judged by its veracity or the insight it provides by its ability to provoke.

That means that misinformation travels so much more quickly than the truth. I come to the point about addiction. I think we have to understand that this particular form of emotional engagement is new. There are people out there who say we have voice had emotionally engaging content via TV or radio or newspapers. But I think the kind of emotional engagement that happens on these platforms is generally, because it is addictive by design, Once upon a time, the brightest people in the world or wanted to work in law and medicine.

Now many of them are working for tech companies trying to work out our brains in order to keep us addicted to their platforms. They do that because we don't pay for these platforms but we do pay for it without attention. The more we look at their platforms, the more ad revenue they generate. So this is a new regulation. The second element of addiction is the weight interacts with algorithms. We follow people down echo chambers and reduce their exposure to the other person's view.

Ultimately this damage is critical analysis. It leads to the kind of polarisation that I believe we are seeing in our politics today. With the unregulated content full of misinformation, been supplied to people incessantly as we remain addicted to our devices and stuck in particular bubbles, think to yourself, just imagine how dangerous this could be if the technology got into the wrong hands. Of course it already has. As a liberal, I always remain sceptical of concentrations of power.

Because we know how vulnerable it leaves society. Somehow we have allowed big tech to make the argument that their power over this industry is justified. Somehow, a natural order. Something we should make an exception for in our global economy. In doing so, we have allowed a handful of firms to dominate the digital world. They control huge amounts of our personal data, and now they control our discourse as well. As is already mentioned, the vast majority of those between 18 and 24 use social media as the primary news source.

As each generation passes, the role of TV and newspapers and radio is only going to continue to diminish. I was at a local school the other day, and I had a young kid about 13 years old, and he almost immediately started talking to me about Donald Trump in a positive way. And I asked him where he was hearing this stuff. The course the answer was TikTok. His mates all giggled because they were doing the same thing. You're not treating this with the seriousness that we need to.

One more remark about the media, lots of the more click bait algorithms, they generate revenue not by the quality of content but by how many people they managed to get onto their websites. Many of the more considered and critical publications are often quite able. And the striving of our public consultation, and a lot of the content is available to people for free. If people will be getting their news from these digital platforms, we are left at the whim of those who are in charge of them.

The people who are in charge of these platforms not only have the control of their platforms to manipulate our discourse, they also have huge amounts of personal wealth. Sadly can interfere with politics in the way always have been able to, through donations and influence through their personal wealth as well. So this is a double-edged sword for us. As we have seen, this kind of wealth and influence has had real-world impact. We have most recently seen Elon Musk's role in the US election.

If we think back bit further, there was a kind of intransigence from Facebook over the dark adverts that were running the Brexit campaign when nobody knew who was responsible for running those. And of course the organised pile on and regulate disruptions that we talked about earlier on. The attempts to silence politicians in everyday debates. Over the last few years, I did feel like we were starting to make some progress in society on this topic. We did have the formulation with the introduction of the Online Safety Act.

It did feel like great efforts were being made to check the power of social media giants. But it does feel right now that we are about to go backwards again. Obviously we saw go backwards again. Obviously we saw the reaction of Meta to the election of President Trump they are going to rollback their cheques. And in the rollback their cheques. And in the Britain we have seen things like the Online Safety Bill and other things they are up for discussions as part of a wider trade deal with the US.

We must fight really hard to keep those tools and to keep those protections. But I think we are kidding ourselves if we think those alone will be enough. Free Press is a fundamental pillar of a liberal democracy. And these digital platforms are threatening that fundamental pillar. I believe that this house needs to start talking about what further action can be taken as well as protecting the legislation that we already have in place. Without all of our places,

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they are under threat. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker..

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.. Firstly can I thank the member for Lagan Valley for bringing this Lagan Valley for bringing this debate to the chamber today for throughout history from the printing press to social media, technological press to social media, technological advancements have often outpaced the laws meant to regulate them. Today laws meant to regulate them. Today digital platforms evolve at a speed that outstrips government's ability to fully understand regulate the impact. This is especially impact. This is especially concerning for democracy.

Depends on informed citizens making choices shaped by debate, yet democracy is increasingly undermined by bad faith actors, misinformation, and relation. Young people face particular risks, and government over them a duty of care, to help them develop in an informed and Safeway online. However, older citizens with little experience of social media and new Aptech platforms can also face difficulties and how they interact and interpret and how they interact and interpret information or disinformation. In addition to the risks of early forms of digital platforms for democracy such as the spread of misinformation, contemporary digital platforms now possess novel risks such as deep fakes, AI bots and
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Martin Rhodes Portrait Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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short form video content. I wish to focus on how this relates to our focus on how this relates to our democratic engagement. In Scotland, 16-year-olds have a right to vote in 16-year-olds have a right to vote in local and national elections. The government's manifesto promises votes at 16 in UK elections, it is important to consider the impact of digital platforms on young voters and younger generations who will one and younger generations who will one day become voters. It will be day become voters.

It will be unsurprising to most to hear that young people are extensive users of digital platforms. The online habits are evolving rapidly. According to Ofcom, 86% of those between 89 and 16 use social media. Even amongst children as young as five and seven, one third are now active online. Platforms like TikTok and disc code are impacting children's understanding of the world. As to how much time the children are spending on social media, Ofcom reports that children between five and 15 are spending an average of five hours and 24 minutes each day engaged in social media activity.

It is right to note that there are some positive benefits to the use of digital platforms, with young people in our little sister. It can allow young people to access the entire sum of human knowledge, and so has your scope is a great source of educational knowledge. It cannot only provide helpful information and analysis from politics also can act as a new means of getting people engaged and interested in a democratic system. Even with this being the case, it remains the fact that there are real risks and harms associated with children's use of social media.

And their outlook on democracy. Recent TV shows have highlighted the digital platforms ability to act as echo chambers, when extremist communities who can influence your ideas and opinions. A recent survey was published by the University of Glasgow South John Smith centre in my constituency. It found 57% of young people nationally age between the age of 16 to 29 prefer to live in a democracy. 27% in the poll would prefer to live in a dictatorship. The fact that over one quarter of this age group would prefer to live in a system completely juxtaposed to our own democracy should be a warning to us all.

In difficult times globally, with uncertainty and disruption to previously accepted patterns of international, national, and local environments, the lure of simplistic but dangerous solutions promoted by bad faith actors can be all too persistent. I welcome action that has been taken to address these challenges. By being committed both to making the digital world a safer place for younger people and delivering real tangible improvements in their lives to other policy initiatives. But we must work harder to move forward in terms of responding to the ever-changing environment that we face in terms of online activity.

Social media giants must be held accountable for their role. The role their platforms play in shaping public discourse. No tech executive should be above the law. I commend the honourable members efforts with this Backbench Business debate and bring it to today. We must not only protect young people and in fact all citizens from harm online, but also equip them with the tools to shape their future. Ensuring they are not just passive consumers of digital content but informed and engaged citizens in our

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democracy. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker..

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.. I thank you for calling me and can I commend the honourable Lady for commend the honourable Lady for first of all asking for the debate, and thereby giving us all an opportunity to participate. But also opportunity to participate. But also to thank for her passion for the subject matter, and I'm very pleased subject matter, and I'm very pleased to represent my constituency, along with the honourable lady, and the entirety of Northern Ireland. I entirety of Northern Ireland.

I commend her for her courage, for his
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Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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speech, and for determination to be a spokesperson. The rise of digital platforms has been a subject of concern for many years. But more so concern for many years. But more so recently than ever, and I'm probably recently than ever, and I'm probably the oldest person in this chamber. I will be able to say that these were will be able to say that these were things that I never faced in my young life of a long long time ago. But my children do, my grandchildren well.

That is what this is about. Information distributed so easily online can be readily accessed by anyone and has the potential for false damaging vile information which shape how the public view. And how they form an opinion on things. There is so much more to be done on this. The honourable lazy referred to something, there was a survey at the Northern Ireland Assembly, of those who were subject, male and female, to levels of abuse. Some said if they had known it would be this bad, they would never have There are vile comments put on male-female.

One thing I have seen and read, the most disgusting comments recently about many politicians, including myself and my party, which stem mostly from social media and the supposed keyboard warriors, those heroes who hide behind the keyboard of all ages and backgrounds. Last week, I have had nothing but admiration from my colleague who has been an inspiration for not only members but the young women across the United Kingdom who have been faced with online personal abuse. She has been so courageous and both of them were excellent, but they epitomised the abuse.

There must be zero places for families who have to read messages about their loved ones, and I hope the Minister can acknowledge how much work is to be done on this matter. On the rise of social media, we have seen the impact this has had on children, and as a grandfather of six, I very much understand why we must protect our children, so I look to reassure us, and I know that she appreciates the impact upon our children, and in my case, upon my grandchildren.

There are benefits like good digital skills, and that is important to be able to do that, mental-health issues are shocking. Statistics around anxiety and depression are at an all-time high around children, and more so than any other generation ever before. I questioned the stats for Northern Ireland, and children as young as eight, nine and 10 have anxiety issues, have depression issues. We have seen more suicide from cyber bullying. The member talks about the new Netflix show adolescents and the traction that has been gained from this show is incredible and that is to be commended.

There are lessons to be learned from this in terms of mental-health, the dangers of social media and how to engage with friendships and relationships, and perhaps there should be more on this in schools, so when the Minister responds, we must look at discussions we have had with the Minister to make sure these are issues that have been addressed directly at school level. I do agree directly at school level. I do agree , and we have some pirate schemes, but it seems to me that our education minister sees that this has to be done really with great respect everyone here as well.

In terms of being elected representative, yes, it is important to engage with representatives and constituents, but for me personally, it could well be a generational matter, but I say this as well. Or it could also be the fact that I have seen some of the devastation that social media can cause. It is no secret of misinformation that is out there, so I am probably fortunate that I have limited contact, but I also understand the work around it as well.

Freedom of speech is important but there is a difference between healthy debate and comments. In this house, I have always tried to engage with everyone in a suitable way and be respective of others who have a different opinion and introduce those with great respect to the honourable lady. The comment may be at odds with what is being said, but debates in the chamber, there is a responsibility to ensure that people are safe around youth, but unfortunately, some adults don't know better.

Young people are impressionable and not only that, they are growing up in a world of social media. I looked the Minister for Health response in these matters, and I know the honourable lady understands the issue that we have with her own family as well. It can be unexplainable how much work is to be done. There is a responsibility on us personally, on teachers, and social media companies and parents to ensure that online safety is of the utmost priority.

There is more work to be done than saying it is simple down to the parents. This is a joint effort, and we must work harder together. We are working closely with colleagues on this matter. All parties have the same connection and the same goal to achieve, and I hope the Minister will commit to working with her working devolved nations to make sure the same strategy and the same response is one that we can have

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everywhere. Thank you so much. I would also like to thank the

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I would also like to thank the member for Lakin Valley. This debate because it is important to her and all of us here. We are all all of us here. We are all representatives of democracy, and it is crucial that we address concerns about the impact of platforms on our democratic process. Faith in our democratic process. Faith in our democracy has been withered away in democracy has been withered away in the age of disinformation. Abuse takes forms towards female MPs and MPs of colour and I'm not sure if the declaration is necessary in this case, but I would like to make it known that I am part of the speakers security of candidates and I would like to commend him for his work in this space.

The anonymity granted to units by platforms makes perpetrators feel especially confident in their abuse. It also makes it hard to track and identify the worst offenders. Additionally, with the rise of artificial
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Leigh Ingham Portrait Leigh Ingham MP (Stafford, Labour)
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intelligence, parts can be directed to abuse MPs and pentacle candidates en masse. These parts are even more difficult to trace. Directing abuse and threats that MPs isn't just and threats that MPs isn't just hateful, it deliberately undermines our political system. As the member said, it is a threat against this house. When we must fear for their house. When we must fear for their safety, the most valuable part of democracy, that between us and our constituents is strained. An MP constituents is strained.

An MP should feel safe. Threats and abuse are not the only issue. For many people, social media is the main people, social media is the main source of needs, and we know that Facebook is a troubling history of endangering the property. We all understand the outrage when we reach millions of users for the political consulting firm. This data was then used to target advertisements in the US presidential campaign of 2016. The breach wasn't discovered until two years later.

For me, this was the first time I realise just how seriously the political process could be undermined by digital platforms. Very recently, it was stated that a no long use independent fact checkers and as a result, misinformation runs even more rampant. I'm sure we have all experienced family members sending us posts that present themselves as fax but are often complete nonsense. Sadly, since I became an MP, these are often targeted at me so family are often targeted at me so family Looking shadowy.

Allowing misinformation to run rife leads directly to a loss of faith in our democratic institutions but it also leads to a rise in extremism. And just to reiterate the point that I made about me looking shadowy in corners, there is an issue with all political parties when they are personally targeting individuals, but particularly at the point I made when they are women or people of colour. It is obvious that social media has the capacity to influence elections. It is also obvious that social media can act as a medium for abuse and threats, and I know many people in the chamber today have experienced this firsthand.

Therefore, it is absolute crucial that action is taken to curb abuse

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and misinformation. I thank my friend. She is making

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I thank my friend. She is making a compelling point to the risks associated with social media associated with social media platforms who too often have all the agency and none of the accountability for what we see on accountability for what we see on their platforms. I wonder whether she agreed with me that when we see she agreed with me that when we see these platforms as has been articulated today wishing people to more and more extreme versions of content through the very algorithms which they use, that it is time that giants.



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I think it was on Instagram, a story of a relationship and a girlfriend had had one experience and my sister-in-law had received a and my sister-in-law had received a story on her feed, but my brother received a completely separate received a completely separate version of the story which was really targeted at gender disparity, but also pushing different but also pushing different narratives of the same issue, and she was saying it was so weird that she was saying it was so weird that we got it on the same day but it was

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pushing the specific narrative. It is a really emotional speech and I'm sorry to hear this space, but would she agreed that members of Parliament are targeted in this way that it affects their family as well, and as mentioned, it puts people off getting in politics which can't be a good thing for democracy.

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I completely agree. I am passionate about getting more women passionate about getting more women into politics, and that is something I will constantly bang on about. The number of women who said they don't number of women who said they don't want to put me in that position. When I was considering standing for that place, it was one of the that place, it was one of the figures I was most nervous about. As an individual, I am not a huge user an individual, I am not a huge user of social media platforms.

I haven't been someone who puts the life out there in this way, and it made me incredibly nervous about standing incredibly nervous about standing for a political role because I didn't really want to expose myself in that way all my family, so I think it was a very valid point. In the old days, we had coffee shops, but in the rise of social media, what is meant is that people often get their information and have their political conversations online, but a quiet conversation in a pub or a coffee shop doesn't reach thousands of people within seconds, so social media has meant that the nature of political discourse has changed

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because the medium has changed. I am so moved by what she said that the truth is that it has been brutalised and complex ideas have been made simple or at least been made simple or at least apparently simple and malignancy has apparently simple and malignancy has been given less. My advice to any member of this house, don't get member of this house, don't get involved. I'm not involved in social media at all but I have an immense media at all but I have an immense profile in my constituency.

I occupy the real world and not the virtual world and real-world contact with people are always more valued and more valuable.

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I thank them before his intervention. I host a lot of coffee intervention. I host a lot of coffee mornings in my constituency where we discussed complex ideas rather than three word summation is to very three word summation is to very three word summation is to very complex problems. I agree with his point. Social media is here and is here to stay so we have to make sure here to stay so we have to make sure that what we do next is regulate it appropriately.

It is our duty to make sure that our constituents make sure that our constituents still have an avenue to share their opinions. I agree about disagreeing with people. It is an important feature of democracy but we must force guidelines with users, but ultimately, we must restore faith in our political process and by improving the discourse, we can improve our democracy, so I look forward to seeing the Minister around tackling some of these issues.

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I will now impose an immediate

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I will now impose an immediate I start by congratulating the honourable member for Lagan Valley
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Manuela Perteghella Portrait Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)
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honourable member for Lagan Valley for the urgent debate. As we have heard the digital age has brought about unprecedented opportunity for campaigns of many kinds including campaigns that are nefarious. By malign agents who seek to undermine democracy and the safety of our people. Digital platforms are increasing at a rapid pace and reaching unprecedented numbers. They are the most powerful comedic agent all about age. They are able to absorb vast amount of detailed personal information about users, and these platforms can apply complex algorithms to create campaigns and personally targeted advertisements and content.

Including spreading conspiracy theories, extreme content, abuse towards citizens and elected officials as we have heard. And successive governments have not proactive in tackling this. They have been complacent with inertia and inaction while tech and social media giants have spread misinformation. They have left their digital platforms to incite hatred, digital and physical violence and caused riots in our streets. The digital world is the last frontier. Wide open for exploitation by domestic and foreign powers, who do not have Britain's best interests at heart.

The Russian government has been accused of orchestrating a campaign of disinformation that seeks to undermine the global order full stop last or torn the head of MI6 warned that the international order is under threat in a way not seen since the end of the Cold War. Accusing Russia of a reckless campaign of sabotage across Europe. Likewise, Elon Musk used his platform to suggest America should liberate the people of Britain and overthrow the UK government. As we heard it is not just our democratic processes which are under threat and being targeted.

Our children are too. With violent misogyny, online abuse, radicalisation, sexual exportation. Who is keeping our children safe? The Online Safety Act must not be watered down in any future negotiations of trade deals with the US. The spread of misinformation online has the power to dramatically alter the outcomes of our elections and referendums. In doing so, it can change the course of this country. Who will take responsibility for the regulation of digital and political campaigns? Electoral Commission says it is focused on campaign finance.

The information Commissioner's office is focused on personal data. The Advertising Standards Authority says it does not regulate political arguments. We do not regulate and protect our democracy, our children and young people, we allow the companies to regular themselves. We hope Facebook's strategy to tackle misinformation is robust enough. We hope Google are signing up for corporate responsibility takes its job seriously, and we hope there is a real impact. Unfortunately our hope will be in vain. In this time of global challenges and uncertain times, we must take the protection of Britain and its people into our own hands.

We cannot rely on safety being a priority for any other nation or any other tech billionaires. Need regulation and legislation in order to protect the people of Britain and ensure that our democracy is not affected by lies propagated by groups and individuals who do not have Britain's best interests at heart. Effective tech regulation on digital platforms would result in transparency for political advertising, and donations and spending. It should result in strong laws for digital safeguarding. Especially for young people and children.

As America, influenced by its tech billionaires, withdraws from its role as the protector of the free world, let Britain step up to the mark and become a global leader on digital transparency,

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regulation, and safeguarding. I call Dan Aldridge.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to contribute to today's debate on such a critical issue, as the former head of policy for the British computer Society, this was one of my passion projects. I pay tribute to my honourable friend the member for bravely bringing this debate to this place as it affects all of us. As MPs we have a duty not only to preserve
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Dan Aldridge Portrait Dan Aldridge MP (Weston-super-Mare, Labour)
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have a duty not only to preserve democracy to strengthen it. We must safeguard the integrity of public discourse. Recently the conversation is minute related by a handful of powerful billionaires, unaccountable corporate giants and malicious actors foreign and domestic. All counting on others to dither and retreat at the scale of the challenge. Public trust in digital platforms is eroding as the people behind the algorithms driving these platforms wields unprecedented power and influence without any of the checks and balances that the rest of our democratic institutions have been shaped by four generations.

The people behind the algorithms designed to manipulate or exploit our rewarding sensationalism over truth, nuance, and meaningful

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discussion, with impunity. The very distinction between fact and fiction is being eroded. And I fear that young people's consciousness of that is being so consciousness of that is being so damaged that we won't really be able to navigate the journey to truth that he described. The point I want that he described. The point I want to make is this, it is those global to make is this, it is those global giants were also the keyboard warriors. Someone said the internet warriors.

Someone said the internet is the empire of imbecile's but the problem is you can't tell the difference between imbecile's and experts now.

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I would say that there is a lot of conversation rightly about children in this space but we often forget that it is people generally that I having huge problems with this. When I was knocking on doors this. When I was knocking on doors last weekend, grown men were saying they did not believe anything they read online. I do not believe read online. I do not believe anything I said and it leads to real difficulties. And it is important that we talk about the people behind that we talk about the people behind the algorithms, and this is the important points.



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important points. I think it is important not only to make a decision between fact and fiction but will he also accept the distinction between real and fake

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people operating in some of the spaces as well? Yes absolutely. And I think the audible member for Stafford audible member for Stafford mentioned earlier about that difficulty with identifying or difficulty with identifying or holding to account the bots and the non-people actors that are causing non-people actors that are causing so much problem. I talk about the so much problem. I talk about the people behind the algorithms and platforms in debates like this because it is far too easy to lose perspective and characterise perspective and characterise algorithms and digital platforms as something intangible and alien to us, but we are actually in control of them.

In 2020 the former member for Axbridge when he was by Minister claims that mutant algorithms were to blame for the 2020 exam fiasco. This was a masterclass in deflecting blame from the egregious human failure, and the line of responsibility which tracks right back to the heart of his government. The consequences of which still impact the thousands of young people, my constituents included, whose life plans and chances were upended by the hubris of a government enthralled to the promise of tech as a quick fix.

Sensationalist headlines of mutant algorithms serve no one other than those avoiding the figure of blame those avoiding the figure of blame and it all comes at the expense of discussing the meaningful issues that matter. Such is the cost of living, the housing crisis, the need for better public services. We must do better. Online disinformation is a persistent and pernicious threat to our democracy. False narratives spread much faster and stick much harder than true. Populist snake oil salesman Hawke fresh hope online and sell simple solutions to complex problems, to desperate people.

They intentionally undermine our institutions to their own ends.

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I thank my honourable friend for

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I thank my honourable friend for giving way. Does he agree with me that many of the people operating in the background are doing it on behalf of our foreign adversaries in countries like Russia, Iran, and countries like Russia, Iran, and others? They outsource the kind of work to sow division in our society,

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we should work as hard as we can with the government to tackle this. I thank him fizz intervention will get onto that. Disinformation will get onto that. Disinformation has become a stealth weapon wielded by hostile states and domestic actors alike. To destabilise committees, societies, and undermine democratic norms. The real-world consequences of this was seen last summer with inflammatory content spread with impunity online, fuelling rights and civil unrest. This serves as a stark warning that disinformation does not remain online.

It is dangerous and has real life consequences. In my constituency I saw how people manipulated fear in our most honourable communities, using online platforms to promote their own craven political agendas. This is something I will never forgive them for.

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Would he agree with me that there is responsibly John Oliver's who are is responsibly John Oliver's who are fortunate enough to be in this place to use our voices proportionately, carefully, and with respect because carefully, and with respect because actually we have power to inflate and create situations and antagonise situations and can make them much worse, by utilising these platforms?

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worse, by utilising these platforms? As the honourable member knows, I am a very moderate human being. I agree. One of the things I wanted to do in this place and my work in my constituency is to always look for the positive angle to things and to talk with moderation and to calm community tensions rather than inflame them for political ends. I think that is something that I see much more of at the moment and I'm very grateful for it.

Stronger regulations, greater transparency, and real accountability are essential but so is meaningful and applicable education and training. One will not be fully effective without the other. Forms must act in the public interest and have greater ethical oversight and governance and not simply follow the corporate interests of shareholders. The voices of ordinary citizens must shape our national discourse and the UK has to push for global consensus

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where it can in an increasingly challenging and complex one. He is making a very impassioned speech which comes from a place of speech which comes from a place of experience. As has been mentioned today, we see a stark divide in the today, we see a stark divide in the younger generation, recent research has shown it is more polarised than has shown it is more polarised than ever and over 25% of young people prefer authoritarianism. Does he agree that it is time to make sure that our young people are able to

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that our young people are able to access debate? We have to be creating spaces in schools and communities for that. I am encouraged by the work of my colleagues in government including the member for Enfield North who are taking the response abilities to the British public seriously, and showing an openness to engagement that was sorely lacking under the last administration in the policies around technology. I look forward to working with colleagues to take the necessary steps to protect and strengthen our democracy in this digital age.

This government has a moral duty to act in the public interest on this. Let us work together to restore faith in our democracy and our institutions, and

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show we are still the masters of our own destiny even in this brave new digital world. Thank you. I'm now imposing an immediate

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three-minute time limit. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. And thank you to the honourable And thank you to the honourable Member for bringing this important Member for bringing this important debate and for her courage. As we debate and for her courage. As we have heard, the Netflix show 'Adolescence' has been a wake-up 'Adolescence' has been a wake-up call about the dangerous impact of social media. A young boy groomed
14:59
Susan Murray Portrait Susan Murray MP (Mid Dunbartonshire, Liberal Democrat)
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online by an incel culture hostile online by an incel culture hostile to women murders a female classmate resisting his prejudice against women. Pain is have warned of this issue. Months before it was issue. Months before it was released, zero tolerance highlighted the need to better regulate the the need to better regulate the platforms that spread misinformation platforms that spread misinformation and radicalisation. This is of particular importance for young people including those of my people including those of my constituency, as nearly 60% rely on social media as their primary information source including news as we have heard.

If radical content already fuelled violence against women and girls, we must be aware of the effect on democracy. The honourable member for Glasgow North referenced research at Glasgow University. Recent work at King's College London shows that over half College London shows that over half of Gen Z think the UK would improve under a strong leader who is unconstrained by Parliament or elections. When explicitly asked if they would prefer dictatorship, 6% said yes. Yet when questioned on this stance, they clarified that they simply wanted a leader who can effect change quickly, as current progress is too slow.

This should not come as a surprise. After all, they are bearing the brunt of a mental health crisis, soaring house prices, and a brutal job market. It is clear a poor online environment reflects a poor real-world environment. Individuals of all ages frustrated by the circumstances look for something to blame, be it women, immigration, or democracy. Sentiment driven by social media giant and the far right populist who exploit young far right populist who exploit young Problems lie in the real world.

The John Smith Centre stresses that politicians should be more open and transparent and address young people's housing and employment concerns to reduce disillusionment. If we ignore their challenges, social media will continue to undermine our democracy and draw our young people into increasingly

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extreme environments. I am grateful for the opportunity

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I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate today, and I to speak in this debate today, and I think it is all too tempting for us to believe that the democratic processes that were once stronger, processes that were once stronger, more resilient or more practical
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Joani Reid Portrait Joani Reid MP (East Kilbride and Strathaven, Labour)
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more resilient or more practical strategy, but nor can we assume that progress towards a better world is natural and without any setbacks. It is our responsibility as legislators to not simply comment on history or to actively shape it. Particularly when we are confronted with new and complex strategies and the impact of digital platforms on our democracy represents precisely such a challenge. It did promise to democratise the debate, to give every citizen an equal voice, but the reality has been far more the reality has been far more complicated.

Polling by more in common said that 70% of Britons believe that social media has negatively impacted young people, and even more people showed a strong appetite for greater accountability from tech companies, particularly regarding misinformation and online harm. Ofcom's latest findings shows that three in 10 children encountered harm. That is not abstract. Just because it is online doesn't mean it is a real harm, and because we don't allow it off-line, we shouldn't allow it online. Social media companies have enormous power to influence public debate.

Their platforms have two facilitated harmful content, hate speech, misinformation abuse and the reality is that we continue to profit from division and outrage and we should expect to see a lot better from these influential businesses. I'm the chair against anti-Semitism so I am subjected to a particular kind of abuse which gives me the tiniest glimpse into what it is like to be either Jewish or a minority in the either Jewish or a minority in the UK.

Most of which, because it is so widespread, aged ignore it, but occasionally, I get something that is not acceptable and I will report it.

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On that point, I thank the honourable member for giving way. We honourable member for giving way. We have commented a lot on this debate about the impact on members about the impact on members families. The other aspect, talking families. The other aspect, talking about experiences of abuse in her role as a chair. She agree with me

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that staff also have access to it? Yes, I do absolutely agree, and I want to give you a sense of what I have reported to what doesn't meet the threshold for action, and I can just block them if I want to, so some of them are being directed at me. Are you Jewish? Most Jewish children are weak and neurotic and struggle to understand things the way advanced children do. You are not well bred, and in relation to the Holocaust, it didn't happen.

This didn't reach the threshold for harmful content and was allowed to continue. They are operating with impunity in this country. We need transparency and algorithms and genuine cooperation with regulators like Ofcom should absolutely not be optional. Tech companies must understand that access our market and citizens carries clear responsibilities. And if they want to operate here, they need to bathe the law of our land, and this isn't about stifling freedom.
15:06
Noah Law Portrait Noah Law MP (St Austell and Newquay, Labour)
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The strength of our democracy lies in its people, their voices, their concerns, their participation, and the Labour Party I know has always been a party of grassroots, particularly in Cornwall, are real people engaging with real communities, and we are not the party that faces but, anonymous profile or foreign interference, yet as we reflect on last year's general election, we must confront a reality that the integrity of our democratic process is under threat from hostile actors and unaccountable digital platforms like those we have spoken about today.

In my constituency, I have seen this manipulation first hand. The administrators of the local reform Facebook group supposedly represented my constituency are not local at all, not a single one that I can see has anything to do with my constituency. Many cannot even be identified as real individuals. This is not grassroots activism. It is Astroturf in an insidious form of medical manipulation where orchestrated campaigns masquerade as spontaneous grassroots movements, misleading and doing this to the public.

The election was tainted by misinformation on an unprecedented scale. These were not spontaneous expressions of democratic electorate that the work of domestic and foreign actors interfering to distort the public discourse. The power of these platforms is to spread falsehoods without scrutiny undermining trust in our political system. Undoubtably, the owners of these platforms have immense influence which shape which information is disseminated and trusted. One such owner has endorsed figures convicted of hate crimes which is appalling, signalling how much those with influence can amplify those voices, so these are not neutral platforms but battlegrounds, and the scales are tipped in disinformation.

Politics are built on real people, engagement and communities. Thank you. A serious allegation was recently amazed that we spend too much time in communities fixing church roofs and we are not on Twitter. Last night, I logged back on and Twitter was absolutely brilliant. The quality and depth of debate was something to behold. The Liberals and authoritarians, people from the economic right, left and centre were engaging in thoughtful debate about the most pressing issues. I just it was a waste of time for everyone involved including me.

Elon Musk has made it useful for some people. Some are profiting by sowing the seeds of division, not just profiting politically but also lining their pockets with the money of the social media balance, and I have orally told the member and about reference that I am referencing him today because his register of interest is revealing. The leader of reform is denying since elected. The address of the pair is in Market Square, and I know what you are thinking. You think it is the covered market in Clacton, but no.

But closed. It is Elon Musk sex in California. The member Clacton has also declared more than £14,000 in earnings from Google, Cameo, met in California, and one wonders where he finds all the time. As an intake MP, I encounter my colleagues who basically don't have time to go to the loo. But on a more philosophical note, for one who claims to be a patriot, he takes a lot of money for international support. That should give us all pause for thought when we look at digital platforms on democracy.

We might conclude at the very least that it distracts MPs from doing their job, and I don't mean the action of doom scrolling. I mean the destruction of the grip. But what of the broader threats presented by social media platforms? We have spoken on many occasions recently about the issues that young men are facing, and the impact on democracy. Now it is my belief that those issues are symptoms of many problems including the tone of debate around roles and responsibilities of boys as they become men, ludicrously high renting prices.

If you are stacking a childhood bedroom looking for reasons why your life is rubbish, the digital world has no shortage of scapegoats. Women, minorities, immigrants, foreigners, refugees, disabled people, the weak, sick parent families, the list goes on and there is no shortage of snake oil salesman at their who can tell you who you should blame and what you can do about it. Andrew Tate tells us it is the fault of women and any young men at home, nobody outside wants to see pictures of bald men in the middle-age with their tops off.

I know from personal experience. My followers and more importantly my friends left me in no doubt about what a plonker I looked
15:11
Max Wilkinson Portrait Max Wilkinson MP (Cheltenham, Liberal Democrat)
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after a photo I posted at the lino. Jordan Peterson, another big thinker Jordan Peterson, another big thinker on the right, gives brilliant advice on the right, gives brilliant advice to young men. He tells me must make themselves physically strong so they can find a mate and get rich and can find a mate and get rich and powerful or they will end up dying poor and alone with their melted brains like crustaceans defeated after a violent fight in the depths after a violent fight in the depths of the ocean.

I'm pretty sure that is not true. The lads shouldn't is not true. The lads shouldn't worry about it, but so many are thanks to the sellers of snake oil online. Thanks to Pres Trump and those who argue for a bizarre form of freedom of speech, not for everyone, the truth is now contested context, and it is intertwined with fear and hatred which are now a threat to our democracy. And we all know where the truth goes to die. The answer is whichever social media platform you like.

You double down and find a mad and hateful narrative. Tell everyone it is free speech and before you know it, you might be lucky enough to become a successful online grifter with your top off. Perhaps even an MP or the president of America. Two days ago was April Fools' Day. I hate April Fools' Day because the world is now so ludicrous you don't know what is a joke and what isn't, and even worse, what you post as a joke might be shared by so many people so many times that it is somebody else's truth eventually.

In the worst case, it is part of the hate fuelled conspiracy theory. There are many increasingly popular conspiracy theories online that has nothing to do with hatred at all but they are bizarre. I will not name them here for the sake of my inbox and the inboxes of all of you, but every single one of those claims is a threat to our democracy. And those views are going around the world quicker and quicker thanks to social media. But what should we be doing about it? While digital and social media platforms can be done for democracy as others said, they are inherently vulnerable to misinformation and abuse.

They reduce the quality of debate, so look no further than the rights of the tragedy of the Southport attacks. That tragedy for those individuals, those little girls and their families were compounded for so many by what happens in the following days because people were whipped up into a frenzy by false rumours leading to more violence. Masks axe and other social media companies facilitate that spreading misinformation and they have made it entirely clear to all of us that they do not care.

Let's face it that platforms like TikTok and Snapchat are making our children sad and depressed. They are putting a check on the development of the adults of the future. They absolutely cannot be trusted. He uses purchase of Twitter further leveraged his influence over the world's largest democracy. He boost posts. Freedom of speech but more free for others. And from his own platform, the world's richest man has made several direct interruptions of our democracy. Last summer, he sought to post disorder because Civil War is inevitable.

He wants to overthrow the UK government and has suggested we might bankroll the Reform Party. I have some sympathy with ministers dealing with Trump, but is it wise to be so gentle with him when musk has called for them to be objected from office? I know ministers are limited but I am pretty sure what they think and regardless of norms, it is plainly absurd. It makes our once strong nation look weak. What should we do? Social media companies must take a larger role as it is clear they will not do it without intervention.

They need to get on with it. Stricter regulations must be introduced to ensure they are properly challenged on the spread of misinformation. We must stand up to them and intervene to protect democracy. I believe that things are dangerous. JS Milne warned the idea that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant full sense which most experience refutes. We must heed that warning refutes. We must heed that warning

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I start by thanking the Backbench Business Committee and the member for Lagan Valley for putting for for Lagan Valley for putting for this very important debate today. Digital platforms can both enhance and undermine democracy. Social and undermine democracy. Social media can increase awareness of elections and candidates, elections and candidates, encouraging participation and voter turnout, they can also lead to abuse of democratically elected MPs, councillors, politicians, and even more worrying is the threat of electoral interference from malign electoral interference from malign international actors.

I'm grateful to all members from all parties who took part in what I think was an incredibly thoughtful and interesting debate on such an important issue. For timing reasons I can't reflect back everyone's speech but I wanted to pay particular he'd to three members who have spoken. The first being the member for Lagan Valley. I would like to start off thanking her for
15:17
Ben Spencer Portrait Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
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her incredibly powerful speech. I am her incredibly powerful speech. I am sorry about the abuse and the attacks and the threats that she has experienced. Any attack or abuse to experienced. Any attack or abuse to an MP is an attack on democracy. And we have brilliant representatives in we have brilliant representatives in this place, and I'm proud to be a this place, and I'm proud to be a member of Parliament in this, the greatest Parliament in the world. greatest Parliament in the world.

And we stand up for our fellow colleagues and others across the house and for elected representatives at all levels. On that note I particularly want to thank for mentioning Jo Cox and Sir David Amess. I was elected after Jo Cox was murdered but I did meet Sir David Amess before he was murdered and I still have a letter that he sent me when I was elected as a new MP. I know also Jo Cox is very much MP. I know also Jo Cox is very much missed.

And what happens to them clearly makes, if the point needs driving home, the importance of making sure that we deal with the problems we face. I am going to pick later in my speech of the points that she raised regarding issues around disinformation and misinformation. And also, with regards to digital issues, I think she raised some important points regarding how social media operates. I have often thought that we need to think about anonymity and proceed separately in terms of people using the platform of the content.

I would also like to pay tribute to the member for Oxford East who used the speech as well to talk about her resignation. Principles are not principles unless you act on them, and I really hope that she has the opportunity to serve his Majesty's government at some point again in the future. I would like to mention, and I'm sorry there are so many brilliant speeches but some of the comments from the member for East Kilbride which jumped out at me.

Particularly the quotes she read out in this chamber. Those vile comments, and I would be grateful if the Minister could also in terms of her winding up comment on that, and perhaps give what reassurance she can that this has been dealt with appropriately by the digital online platforms. Protecting the integrity of our elections and stopping the influence of actors is a critical role for government. It is the governments responsible of the to work closely with Electoral Commission and others to protect the integrity security and effectiveness of UK referendums and elections.

The Electoral Commission has a wide range of investigator and civil sanctioning powers. The government is also able to refer more serious matters to the police and National Crime Agency. As outlined in the previous government's response to the Intelligence and Security Committee's report on Russia, the U.K.'s adversaries adapt a whole of state approach to HYBRIT and malign activity and tackling it. Therefore requires a cross government and across society response. To respond effectively is necessary for the government to draw on skills, resources, and remits of different departments, agencies, and non- government organisations.

Considering the current geopolitical landscape, it is essential that the government keeps all aspects of this approach protecting our democracy under review so can quickly adapt to any new threats that emerge. This is not an issue facing the UK alone but democracies across the Western world. Political parties successfully harnessing the impact of social media to reach cohorts of voters that are normally uninterested or dissolution. This is a good thing but other countries are facing interference from other states.

Russia, and China. So how should governments respond? The previous government was resolute in defending our country from hostile state activity. The last government brought forward Elections Acts 2022 which restricts their party campaigning UK-based groups and eligible overseas electors to only those with a legitimate interest in UK elections can campaign to the UK electorate. It also contains new measures requiring digital imprints on online campaign material and greater transparency about political funding. The previous government also passed the world leading Online Safety Act, and many members have made reference to it.

Its provisions have only recently come into force in terms of regulating this area, and I hope the government will continue to actively monitor what Ofcom is doing to make sure it is working properly. There are also threats from artificial intelligence, disinformation, and particularly the ability of AI to create realistic videos, images, impersonating public figures including political and religious leaders. The risks of this are clear for all to see. In the Data Bill at Committee stage, we tabled an amendment with a set of logical standards and digital watermarks.

In part this is about ensuring that we can help solve some of the issues around AI copyright. It is also about ascribing authenticity to what people are putting out on social media. I suspect many colleagues across the house, like me, would like to have the ability to put a digital watermark on material they put out so people can be sure the content they are creating is from the person who purports to be creating it. The government voted this amendment down.

I hope ministers will work with us to support it going forward. To finish, we must ensure that regulations are effective and up-to-date with the latest technology. We have to ensure that the public are made aware of the risks of AI generated content, deliberate disinformation, tackle foreign interference in our elections will stop digital platforms can also enhance democracy and it is important we don't lose sight of that. Traditional media is no longer the primary news source for many, using things like Twitter, Facebook, tiptop, Snapchat or been part of this ecosystem.

If we as politicians want better participation in democracy, and all of us do, we cannot vacate social media, although I am very jealous of my honourable friend on this. For vacate the online space, to ensure

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it works all of us. I call the Minister. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I want to begin by thanking the member for Lagan Valley for securing member for Lagan Valley for securing this debate. I would like to join her, you'll remember, in honouring her, you'll remember, in honouring the memory of dear colleagues, Sir David Amess and Jo Cox. I am grateful to the honourable Member and speakers for the incredibly powerful and insightful contributions to today's debate. The government shares the members concerns for the impact that online harassment, intimidation, abuse, misinformation and disinformation has on our democracy.

An existing or emerging technologies have led to changes in the information environment and will continue to shape our future. It is and always will be an absolute priority for the UK government to protect our democracy and we remain well- prepared to do so with robust systems in place. I was grateful to the honourable member for Lagan Valley for sharing her experiences. The House should absolutely hear of the abuses that she and the hate she has faced online, and there is no place for that.

I thank for sharing that. The government is committed to combating violence against women and girls. The Online Safety Act requires Ofcom to develop and enforce guidance for tech companies, and this guidance aims to ensure that platforms implement measures to reduce harm to women and girls online. The act imposes legal responsibilities on online platforms including social media platforms, gaming platforms, dating apps, and search engines, to protect users from illegal content and material harmful to children.

And addressing issues that disproportionately affect affect women and girls. These measures reflect the government's commitment to creating safer online environment, and acknowledging the unique challenge faced by women and girls in the digital space. In
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