Commons Chamber

Thursday 27th February 2025

(began 1 month, 2 weeks ago)

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None Portrait Oral questions: Church Commissioners and House of Commons Commission and Restoration and Renewal Client Board and Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission
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Questions to Church Commissioners my restoration and the Speaker's committee. I will let the
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None Portrait Q1. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church of England has made of the contribution of rural parishes. (902885)
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frontbenchers change over.
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None Portrait Q2. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what discussions the Church has had with the Government on the extension of the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme. (902886)
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OK, let's go to Blake Stephenson.
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None Portrait Q3. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the House of Commons Commission, what steps the Commission is taking to ensure that Portcullis House is functioning effectively. (902887)
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Question number three.
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None Portrait Q4. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what recent estimate the Church has made of the contribution of its cathedrals to local economies. (902888)
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Question number four.
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None Portrait Q7. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what support the Church is providing to the Diocese of Jerusalem, in the context of the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. (902891)
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Question number seven.
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None Portrait Q9. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the Restoration and Renewal Client Board, what the key cost drivers are for the programme. (902893)
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Question nine Mr Speaker.
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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To ask the Secretary of State if she will make a statement on the coverage of Gaza by the BBC.

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coverage of Gaza by the BBC. Is the house will be aware, Hamas is a prescribed terrorist organisation in the UK. It is my view and I hopefully one shared across the house that this is a terrorist organisation who are guilty of heinous acts of terrorism over many years including the appalling terrorist and anti-Semitic attacks carried out in 2023. This is a position set out in the media this week. That tragic day and the conflicts which followed have had real impacts across the UK playing out in our streets and everyone of us has an opportunity to take the utmost care not to exacerbate the situation.

That is why I have discussed editorial guidelines with the BBC director-general in recent days. The BBC has clear guidelines to report Hamas the UK government. That was the policy and the last government and that remains their policy. Earlier this week at my request, we seek urgent action about the cheques and due diligence that needs to be carried out ahead of the screening of a recent documentary into Gaza about the commissioning, the payment and the use of licence fee payers money.

We also see assurances that no money paid has fallen into the hands of Hamas and that the utmost care is taken to ensure that was the case. I expect to be kept informed of the findings and I would be happy to update the gentlemen and colleagues across the house on its progress. Across all the issues on which the BBC may report, the BBC's operational and editorial independence from the government is an important principle that we intend to uphold.

As he will be aware as a former culture minister, it is for Ofcom as the independent regulator to ensure the BBC fulfils its regulations under the charter and broadcasting code. Nevertheless, it is essential that the BBC has standards of reporting and governance that the public rightly expect. I have made those views clear to the BBC. This is crucial to ensure that the BBC retains the confidence to the public. public.
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Stuart Andrew Portrait Rt Hon Stuart Andrew MP (Daventry, Conservative)
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Am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. The documentary was broadcast by the BBC. This documentary purported to show what everyday life was like for people in Gaza, a topic of huge sensitivity. As the public broadcaster, the BBC imparts impartial information which is important it comes to coverage of events. It is clear that the BBC has fallen far short of the standards. Shortly after airing, reports emerged that it was narrated by the son of the senior Hamas figure.

Initially, the BBC defended the programme as an invaluable testament and kept it available on iPlayer. Only after significant backlash did the BBC decide to withdraw it. Then we learned that on at least five occasions, Arabic words for due or Jews were changed to Israel or Israeli forces all removed from the documentary. Then we learned that up to £400,000 in public funds may have indirectly supported a terrorist organisation. But I regret to say the government's response to these allegations has just been is concerning.

On Monday, the Secretary of State said that it should be described as a terrorist is a by the BBC, but I am glad to hear her comments today. On Tuesday, the Home Secretary said she didn't know the details around this case despite allegations that £400,000 of public funds may have indirectly supported this organisation. For that reason, the Leader of the Opposition wrote the director-general of the BBC requesting a full independent enquiry to consider this and wider allegations of systemic bias against Israel.

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for the response to my correspondence on this matter. I understand from her letter that she has raised these concerns about the documentary with the director- general Abbas just said, and it is right that she has done so, but I must process further on the contents. Did she make clear that in this case, the BBC has fallen far short of the standards expected of the U.K.'s public broadcaster? Did she receive any assurances from the BBC that taxpayers money has definitely not been funnelled to Hamas? Did she support our calls for a full independent enquiry into this documentary, and what commitment did she get from the BBC that this will

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never happen again and if, no investigation has to take place, what will happen? It is two minutes. Please can we

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It is two minutes. Please can we get everybody to measure how long they have got? It is unfair because we have a lot of business to get
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Lisa Nandy Portrait Rt Hon Lisa Nandy MP, The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Wigan, Labour)
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through. I thank him for bringing this matter to the house and raising it matter to the house and raising it with me. As he knows, I have a long-standing history of taking anti-Semitism incredibly seriously, including when it poisoned my own party and I will always speak out without fear or favour when I see it raise its ugly head. I am disappointed at his attempt to try to pretend that the government has been anything other than robust on this.

He will know that in the interviews I gave that he referred to, I was absolutely crystal-clear that the UK government and I have believed for a long time that Hamas is not only a terrorist organisation in the UK but is a terrorist organisation and will continue to describe it as such. He will know that in the interview I make clear that I had requested a meeting with the director-general of the BBC to discuss it. I would point to this, that the BBC is not there as an instrument of government.

We have to build the trust that is so fundamental to its core purpose. They are not my words but the words of the last media minister who he served alongside speaking on the seven of who he served alongside speaking on 7 February 2023 last year. He was a minister in that government. If he disagrees with her, she is now the PPS to the Leader of the Opposition. I suggest he takes it up with her, but this is too important an issue to treat this way.
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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Thank you. I am not quite sure what mental obfuscation is filling my head, but let me thank you again. It is my happy task to open by saying that today sees the retirement of a stalwart of the tea room. I'm sure I speak for the whole house in wishing her a very retirement. But on a very different note, this week also marks the third anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We wish the Prime Minister every success in his meetings at the White House today.

As you will know, the government has come in for some fairly punishing criticism from me at the despatch boxes recent months, and rightly so. It came to power loudly advertising planning, but as the house will know, we have seen a series of entirely avoidable resignations, blunders and mishaps. The government has talked about growth but decisions to reduce the force cast from 2% to 0.75% growth for this year. Little wonder that this is when you consider the 25 billion increase in National Insurance contributions and the imposition of an employment rights Bill.

Most bizarre of all has been the lack of foresight and financial planning. The Chancellor talked in her May election last year about secure enough works and the importance of economic security, but many commentators have noticed that her fiscal rules have left her very little room for manoeuvre. After all, it was obvious that there could all, it was obvious that there could be F on trade with an inevitable rise in defence spending. It is almost as though Labour never imagined or never wanted to believe that Pres Trump will be elected.

The government may be full to have a mini budget next month and a spending review which has been so delayed, the government will have a full year from selection without having any settled spending plans. Meanwhile, forget secure in mix, this is a recipe for insecurity as well as increasing carbon emissions. However, it is important to give credit where credit is due. I reported in December that genuine signs of reality were starting to break through in the government's so-called plan for change.

The PM said in 2010 that the incoming government inherited public finances in desperate need of repair. He said the UK needed a profound cultural shift away from a declining mentality which has become culpable with failure. And finally and most notably, we cannot tax our way to prosperity or spend our way to better public services. The prime minister was right on all three counts, and he is right now to increase spending. It is not untrue to say that he is becoming more conservative before our eyes.

Unfortunately, the real numbers in the defence statement were half what he claimed as was made clear, and the statement was insulting in other ways. It was linked to the media for the prime minister had even stood up. Punish the thought that it was redacted so that MPs would be kept and not able to hold the Delhi into account. Even so, he was repeatedly unable to answer the simple yes or no question whether funding for the silent steel was included in this total.

And what is worse, in his statement, he tried to aggregate the intelligence services budget and with the defence budget. That is grossly misleading because these budgets are and have long been kept separate, and what still is that there would be 2.6% of GDP which implies a cut, not arise, in the budget for the intelligence services which currently stands at 0.51%. This cannot be correct. Even if the leader cannot address this question now, I would be grateful if she can now, I would be grateful if she can write me with details in order to answer it for the record and for the benefit this house.

benefit this house.
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Can I also welcome the retirement of Dawn from the tea room and wish her well, and can we remark on what remarkable number of 10 minute bills we have had from the honourable gentleman the shadow leader brought forward a very important bill for cleaning up the River Wye which is of real importance to his constituents. But also from the member from West Bromwich who introduced to cut down on ghost licence plate so they are in good company.

As the PM attends an important meeting today, he has the support of the whole house behind him in the national interest. The peace and security we have enjoyed in recent things has shifted in the last few years, not least because of Russian aggression and the illegal invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister has shown determined leadership on the world stage to ensure that our national security is protected in the long-term. The houses come together this week to show our unity and strength in supporting Ukraine.

Three years since Russia's full scale illegal invasion of Ukraine, we stand in solidarity. We support their bravery, their people, their president and we stand firm for their sovereignty and their lasting security from Russia. The cross- party display, and I know will be on display this afternoon shows this house at its best and gives the Prime Minister strength in negotiations. And as the gentleman said, the PM also announced a parliament first but in order to respond to the growing threats that we face, defence spending will increase to 2.5% of GDP by 2027 and increase to 2.5% of GDP by 2027 and increase to 2.5% of GDP by 2027 and This marks the biggest increase in defence spending since the end of the Cold War.

Going further than commitments we made in our manifesto. It is not vital for our own capabilities but for maintaining peace and security beyond our shores. Other European countries must now step up at this crucial juncture. I was pleased to see that the announcement to 2.5% was universally welcomed across this house. Yet again he raises the government's economic record. Let's have a look at that record shall be once again. Interest rates are down three times in a row, mortgage rates are also going down, wages are going up, and from 1 April, the lowest paid will receive a big pay rise.

He might not be interested in pay and work as dignity and security but this party is and we are not ashamed to say so. He talks about energy prices, and he will know that this country, under his government, was uniquely and specifically exposed to global energy markets. The only way for us to get lower bills in the long-term, sustainable lower bills, is to make sure we got clean energy generated in this country. That is what this government is embarking on what this government is embarking on doing.

Unfortunately, he wants to open up a difference on defence spending. I would gently remind him that the last time the government spent 2.5% on defence spending was under the last Labour government, this government may promise after promise on the never-never. It never happened and it wasn't a credible plan. So I would gently remind him of that. It is another week of Business Questions at another week that the shadow leader fails to say anything supportive about his own leader. I keep giving him ample opportunity to do so at these sessions each week.

I thought he might want to highlight some of the recent speeches and interventions recently even they have had so little coverage. She advised us to stop hiding behind vapid statements. I'm not sure it is thus making vapid statements, I think it might be herself. Was he not taken with her claim that only "The Conservatives are the guardians of Western civilisation. "? I know he takes history seriously, so what does he make of that claim? Did you not want to take the opportunity today to restate her claim that the Prime Minister's big moves this week were all down to a letter he received from the Leader of the Opposition? Or does he realise that the rest of us that this is obviously absurd.

And what about her suggestion that her leadership stint is akin to that of Donald Trump in his second term? Come on. I think we can all see that it is not quite going the way they had hoped for. I'm not sure if the honourable gentleman is a card player or not I'm sure he can agree with me, they are not really holding the Trump card, it is more of a busted flush. busted flush.
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Marie Goldman Portrait Marie Goldman MP (Chelmsford, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrats Spokesperson.

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Climate Change Committee has

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Climate Change Committee has published advice in its budget which sets out new pathways to decarbonisation including on how the decarbonisation including on how the UK can meet the legally binding target of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The Climate Change Committee has already reported that UK is behind in meeting its climate targets and it has criticised the government decisions go ahead with coal mining decisions go ahead with coal mining in Cumbria and oil and gas in the North Sea.

On top of that Ofgem has taken the decision to increase the cap for the price of energy bills by 6.4% in April higher than that 5% increase that even those in the sector and expected. This is the third increase since October 2024. The latest price rise means households will be forced to pay £600 a year more for gas in the lecture to the than before Russia's invasion of three years ago. The Democrats have been gravely concerned about the government delays to tackle poorly insulated homes over this winter, and to prevent the new Future Homes Standard.

As a result an estimated 6 million households are still in fuel poverty. It is clear that to tackle the joint issues of climate change and ever-increasing energy prices, the government must be bold. Liberal Democrats want to see a 10 year emergency upgrade program, to make homes warmer and cheaper to heat. Including free insulation and heat pumps for those on low incomes. With a Leader of the House grant a debate in government time to discuss what more can be done to support those struggling to stay warm in a way that also supports decarbonisation? that also supports decarbonisation?
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. I thank the leader for announcing the business. We had 11 applications covering nine different departments for the Westminster debate and all of them could have been chosen but we had a different choice of choosing three. Those we were not able to accommodate we are going to try and accommodate when we have the main estimates in May, and I would ask the leader to facilitate the date of those debates as early as possible so we can facilitate those happening.

In addition to the business that the leader has announced, on Thursday, 13 March, the debate on future of followed by a debate on mental health support in educational settings, on Thursday, 20 March, there will be a debate on knife crime amongst children and people followed by a debate on coastal communities. In Westminster Hall, there will be a debate on cultural heritage in market towns, and on Thursday the sixth, financial sustainability and governance of English football followed by a debate on ambulance service response times.

On Thursday On Thursday, 11 March, a debate in Westminster Hall on governance of English rugby union and on Thursday the 13th debate on educational opportunities for young carers. Yesterday, the international Atomic Energy Authority announced the fact that Iran is getting very very close to having enriched uranium which will enable them to have a weapon. This is a direct threat to peace in the Middle East and to British interests across the world. I know the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are in the US at the moment but I hope we can have a statement next week on action the government will take to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear-weapons.

If necessary snapback arrangements are in place with the necessary implication of ensuring that they do not require the nuclear-weapons that will destabilise the entirety of the Middle East and beyond.
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Iain Duncan Smith Portrait Rt Hon Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP (Chingford and Woodford Green, Conservative)
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I beg to move the Motion in the name of myself and other members on all sides of the House. I have been working on this with many colleagues on other sides of the House for some considerable time, and we have shared that. The one thing I will say about all of this, it may Marcus out slightly from other countries, but the reality is in this chamber, we have been a completely united in our support for Ukraine and the people of Ukraine who are fighting for their freedom as we have had to do in the past, and we recognise therefore the sacrifices and the risks they have taken, and for anybody to assume straight off that that is of no relevance, I say to them, it is the only relevant issue that pervades this debate today, that we should always be on the side of those who believe in freedom and democracy.

That is what we exist for. I recently came back from another trip to Ukraine. I've done a few there, helped by a charity which is now called hopeful, and what they have done was quite remarkable. It's another example I have to say have how people in Britain see things sometimes like differently from the

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When Russia invaded Ukraine and there was serious danger of taking Kyiv in a number of weeks, this charity that supports people in difficulty in the area around Dundee upped sticks and decided their real cause was now to help people fleeing from the Russians on the Polish border, which they did. They actually turned up two weeks earlier than Oxfam, simply by getting trucks and driving across. A Very British and driving across. A Very British Way of Torture things.

Eventually they crossed over the border and over the last three years have supplied many with food. -- A Very British Way of Torture things. The honourable gentleman is nodding here. They were cooking pizza is quite close to the front with them. The fact is they have fared more than 2.5 million Ukrainians with charitable money and via support from other countries which is quite remarkable. But that charity has now turned its attention to the other huge issue of combat stress and the disaster of the post war that will haunt Ukraine for those who will suffer internally and externally.

I will come to that in a few minutes. The reality is I am proud they are in the gallery today to watch this. I know we do not normally refer to the gallery but this time I think it This charity is in its own accord launching a rehabilitation system in Ukraine, where they are trying to set up treatment for those with serious combat stress and then to be able to multiply that out by teaching other veterans to those to deal with that Combat Stress all across Ukraine.

We have a lot to learn from what they are seeing at the moment and the figures are staggering. This addresses a psychological and physical need and the injuries are huge on a scale we have not seen since the Second World War. We have a lot to learn from Ukraine on the scale of this. It is worth looking at a couple of pieces on this. Apart from stress in combat, what is interesting is the scale of the damage. There are 5 million veterans in Ukraine.

50,000 of these veterans now need prosthetics. Let me repeat that figure. 50,000 Ukrainians are waiting to get prosthetics. They have lost legs and arms through minds, shelling and shellfire and civilians have been treated like soldiers. They have been attacked by the Russians. They bombard hospitals. I have been to hospitals in Kyiv which I visited and they are Who does that deliberately? Who shells hospitals deliberately? But they did. On my last visit I went to a wonderful children's hospital in Kyiv. I think the honourable gentleman was with me when we did that.

I am not sure. But if he was, this had received a hit from a ballistic missile, a direct hit on ballistic missile, a direct hit on this hospital. I say to the House that you do not get misfires on ballistic missiles. They are targeted to within a yard of their destination. This was deliberate, to blow apart the work that they were doing to help children suffering from cancer and all the other ailments of war as well. This is the real horror of how Russia fought this war.

The very fact they fought the war and invaded Ukraine is bad enough. But they have not stuck to all of the usual rules that apply to those who fight. That you leave civilians out of it as far as you can. They target them. Those 50,000 Ukrainian people, I went to prosthetics labs to see this, and the thing is we have a lot to learn from them here as well. They are making advances in prosthetics we could not have believed was feasible.

I would say to the government we need to be sending people over there to look at what they are doing and bring that back because that could be applied to civilian injuries here as well. So all of the work the charity is doing is aimed at helping this and I salute them for that. The thing about this, Madam Deputy Speaker, is those that say that Ukraine was guilty of the war, causing the war, honestly I have been there with others and you only have to see the sheer brutality of what has been happening on the ground to recognise the wrongness of any statement that suggests Ukraine are somehow caused this war.

The aggression of Russia was not caused by anybody else. I will come back to that. It was called by greed and avarice and their idea that they can create a greater Russia along the old Soviet Union lines. That is what is driving this. By the way, it has led to probably more than 800,000 injured and dead Russians and their families will never see them and many will never see their bodies. Because they systematically cremate them so there will not be a series of funerals in Russia, so they do not have problems Russia, so they do not have problems at home.

This is the cynicism of that country. Therefore we need to remind everybody as we did not think that we did that Ukraine is fighting a war in defence and not aggression. It is Russia that has created that problem. I also want to say, because of all the things that have been going on, we need to take a pace back from this. It is not about pointing fingers at anybody but trying to correct the nature of what is being said. I had to say straight off that peace is not just the absence of war.

If it was just the absence of war, it in fact becomes a ceasefire and an intolerable ceasefire which will break down. If you have a piece that is durable and long lasting, you need also to have freedom and justice in it. There can be no real peace without justice for those that have been fighting for their country and for peace. That their country and for peace. That , America and Europe. We need to recognise there can be no peace unless there is justice in that piece for those who suffered most.

I give way.

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My right honourable friend is making a powerful speech. Does he agree with me that factually, agree with me that factually, Article 5, the mutual defence clause Article 5, the mutual defence clause of the Washington Treaty has only been invoked once in history by the United States after 9/11, when then-President Bush ruled America then-President Bush ruled America Europe, particularly Britain came to

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its aid? Is it worth bearing that in mind as these important discussions take place in Washington? Well, of course it is. That Article 5 has been the reason Western Europe has been able to grow, to settle and America has also been able to pursue its own ends because of the mutual defence pact that exists between us. In fact the United Kingdom, Tony Blair was Prime Minister at that stage, did not waste any time coming out immediately to support them. So much so that he got into the debate in Congress and was welcomed as a friend.

Which was quite right. But the reality was the UK was the first to push this and Robertson was head of NATO at the time and he moved it for the first time. It was very much the right thing to do and it underpins this. I want to come back to some of the after effect before I pursue the last of this. I went to see those who look after and are responsible for prisoners of war in Kyiv. What was fascinating about this was the abuses which are taking place which trashed the Geneva Convention on support for prisoners of war in Russia.

Russia spends its time moving Ukrainian prisoners of war around and does not allow full access to the Red Cross at any stage. This is against the stage. This is against the But I do not think that will be enough. What is going on is some have been used as human shields. Some are being used to clear mines in certain areas as prisoners of war which is against the rules as well. We also know a number of families after serious interrogation of prisoners of war, which again is illegal, the families of prisoners of war in Ukraine are then being bullied and threatened about their loved ones, those in a prisoner of war camp if such a thing exists and being told unless they start spying or doing acts of damage in Ukraine, there husband, son or daughter will themselves be tortured and dealt with.

This is going on quite regularly now. It is been discovered by Ukrainians. This is quite illegal under the Geneva Convention. I would urge the government to speak seriously to the Red Cross about seriously to the Red Cross about making a much more public statement about this. This really is quite shocking, the way in which you treat prisoners of war. There is a lack of accountability as well on this. The Red Cross needs to do much more. Madam Deputy Speaker, the reality is we must not therefore underestimate the change of regime in the United States and that the president of the United States has made it clear we should not underestimate the statement, that he wants to see an end to 3 years of war.

He says we have to drive to that. All of us here I think would support that position that we want to see an end to war. Ukraine wants to see an end to war. Nobody wants to carry on fighting. If there is a possibility of a good peace deal, which as I have said carries justice and freedom for the Ukrainians in it, but he sees this I think as a sideshow. He is more focused he says on China. And Taiwan. And other issues.

I think he wants to make savings back in the United States which is reasonable given their spending in some of these areas. The problem I want to reflect on is that for all our support for Ukraine, the reason why this war has gone on for three years is because as allies we have dragged our feet on the supply of weapons and equipment Ukraine needed from day one. In fact there was a period in 2023 when Russia was on the rack and they were in real difficulty.

Short on munitions. They had lost territory to the Ukrainians, certainly in the east and that was the moment when Ukraine may well have been able to deal properly with them and push them back. Strangely enough, two things happen. Number one, and this is the point I want to make, the attack I believe on Israel by Hamas was not just a stand-alone item. I believe Believed Russia needed a distraction. The American is of course immediately moved to support Israel which is what they will do.

They supplied arms. I was in Congress at around about that time and I was looking to see if they could get the money through on a bill being blocked at the time by some of the Republicans who disagreed with it. We did manage to persuade a view and they did push it through. The point I make is the reality is they said this is our war, in Israel. Ukraine is yours. It is not ours. We are concerned about Taiwan. The point I made to them which I make again here now is the reality is you cannot separate Taiwan from Ukraine or in a way from Israel.

My personal view is China's hand is in all of this. That distraction, that move equipment meant Russia was able to regain its strength and has done a deal with North Korea. North Korea interestingly enough, and I think the figures are in here certainly, the scale now of weapons North Korea is supplying is breathtaking. I is supplying is breathtaking. I think it is now well beyond 5 million artillery shells supplied since they signed an agreement. They have thousands of troops now in Russia.

They are very much defending the Russian position. They are planning for even more weapons and missiles. The point I want to make about this, which is why this chain of totalitarian state is working to support each other, which they are, is we are losing on this because we ourselves do not work and focus on this linkage between Iran, Russia, China, North Korea. I give one small warnings and the Americans need to face this and I hope the government will raise this and it is simply Russia now in response is giving significant technology to the North Koreans, particularly for submarine launched ballistic missiles.

Security services know about that here. It is a serious and significant shift. If the North Koreans have this technology, they will be able to take nuclear weapons out to see and will bring under their target all of the American continent, directly with those missiles. That will change the whole nature of the Pacific in terms of the way in which we see geostrategic defence. It is a major change. Russia has been giving them that technology. It is useful for the government to say that this is not separable.

Ukraine is the reason for that. The road to Taiwan runs through Ukraine and we cannot through Ukraine and we cannot I make a very simple point that when we talk about money, we know also that there is huge amounts of money, I know the honourable gentleman who chairs the committee now will want to speak on this, but the reality is we've had debates on this before. There are huge amounts of money that we have now sitting here. The assets belonging to Russians, not just the oligarchs, but also the state.

Some 300 billion Some $300 billion of Russian assets, frozen within the G7 and the EU. 25 billion to the Central Bank of Russia reserves frozen in the UK alone. And this is managed by your Oakley outcome and there are European money in Canada and other countries. The government has said the other day they are prepared to accept that they may use the money earned from those, that capital for Ukraine. But I argue that if you are going to use the money that is earned from the capital, you also have a right to use the capital.

So what we should do is not just freeze the capital that is sitting in the banks, but let us seize the capital and use it as part of the reparations money and the damage repair and the work that is necessary to go on. And I think you would see a major change

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immediately. Can the honourable member explain why there seems to be a certain why there seems to be a certain reluctance amongst Western leaders to use this capital of $300 billion to use this capital of $300 billion or so of French state assets in Western banks? Because that is something that would be very something that would be very powerful as part of potential peace negotiations.

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I agree. The reason I think... I can understand twofold. Those who have financial services, markets are have financial services, markets are very worried that if they leap out and do this without full agreement, then all those other countries will say that's the last time we will ever invest money in that capital market. We will move it to the other countries that don't. So I can understand from the government standpoint that this has to be agreed across the G7 at least control most of those capital markets.

And that means therefore that there won't be any country for somebody else to go to, an oligarch or a totalitarian leader. But we've had a long time to get this right. Canada has made the strongest statement of all. I'm told America is, was OK under the last administration. I'm not sure, but I hope present realises this is money that is there, and we should make this agreement as fast as possible. There can be no peace to you if there is not money attached to it, and that money is necessary for Ukraine and must be used for Ukraine, and it's a huge sum.

So if we think we can use the earnings from the capital, then there is no definitional delineation between the two. If you earn the openings, you and the capital. -- Own.

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I've organised debates on this very topic in the past. Would he very topic in the past. Would he share my view that we now need to get a lot faster in seizing this money, not only to pay for the money, not only to pay for the munitions needed to win the war, but crucially to then win the peace in crucially to then win the peace in Ukraine? Making good the horrific scale of damage that Russia has

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inflicted on that great country. I've got a piece of paper between the two of us have to tell him. He's the two of us have to tell him. He's absolutely right. He now has the capability to push the government over this from his committee standpoint, and I assure him that whatever he chooses to do, this side of the House will support him in that pursuit. And he's quite right and we need to get these decisions made now because if they are made now, then it puts pressure on Russia because if we made this decision to cease this money, Russia then is under pressure to reach a reasonable agreement because they don't want to lose all of this money in the meantime.

So there is a whole line of pressure we should be bringing to bear on the Russians. Now the point about this is also there is more because we have allowed certain things to take place, don't blame just this Government. It happened under the last government. Foreign Office is always slightly reluctant to pursue sanctions and in quite the aggressive nature I would want to do it. We recognise that. Everything always has to be... We must take into consideration a huge number of factors here.

Such as why? When? Who? These neat papers. I would say, forget the papers. Let's get the facts. The fact is for example we've been allowing a shadow fleet of LNG to come from Russia even in the last few months, still delivering to the UK and other countries. And how can they do that? The answer is very simple, and have raised this with the government previously, and now of course the Americans have stepped in, and they've said any country that takes this gas will be sanctioned.

They stopped it overnight. But we could have stopped it because we other major marine insurers in this country. And actually it was British companies that were ensuring this shadow fleet to take their gas elsewhere. In what world do you sit there, watch that, and string out questions about what you should do? Or you had to do was to say that any marine insurer that ensured one of these we are just going to sanction them. That would be the end of it because we are the marine insurer market here in the UK.

It would have killed it stone dead. America has now moved on this. And you could see some of the ships anchored off places like India and even China now because they do not take the gas because of the take the gas because of the sanction. So I just urge the government just want to drive their civil servants to be quicker, faster, more determined to follow the money and to stop it. It just seems to me for the it's not a criticism alone of the present government commits a criticism of

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before. There are many things we would have to address in this debate, but have to address in this debate, but one of the things we have to address in this debate is the issue of the in this debate is the issue of the atrocities that the Russian forces carried out against Ukrainians where carried out against Ukrainians where they butchered and maimed, raped, abused and burned alive. Those are abused and burned alive. Those are things that can't be forgotten about because the families still want justice for the fact -- families.

They want people to be held account

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for tips that has to be part of the piece negotiations as it was in Northern Ireland. I could agree, that will take

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I could agree, that will take time, but it's part of the point I made. You can't have a piece if the peace without justice. And justice has to prevail because if it doesn't, then you encourage doesn't, then you encourage everybody else to say whatever we do will get away with next time because they don't have the courage. To pursue the justice angle of peace. pursue the justice angle of peace. We know that. We know that after the last 60 or 70 years, and that's with the Nuremberg trials were all about.

the Nuremberg trials were all about. That's what the idea was in the first case to pursue the aggressors, and it serves in his case. I lost good friends, and I have to say that I'm still wondering what's happened to them, even to this day. So it's going to take a long while, and I accept that. Can I then go on to just say that actually the most interesting thing about the sanctions was icy here again, I forgotten that actually some of these LNG shipments were done by UK firms, Dacey Shell was involved in this as well, which made it really quite peculiar why we hadn't stepped into this earlier.

I just want to bring this in, the problem I think is that there is an incorrect view, an assumption about the importance of defending Ukraine, which is got lost in this back and forwards row that took place over the last week and 1/2. The idea that just meeting Putin's demand for territory, that he may have got or not at the moment somehow will appease him and will satisfy his requirements as I think a completely wrong judgement. I notice on the telephone call between President Trump and Putin, this is what President Trump said was important.

The truth is Putin is an ex-KGB man. Once KGB, always KGB. He is not interested in territory. He is interested in sovereignty. And this is the key difference between

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the two. I give way. I'm originally from West Germany

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I'm originally from West Germany as most people in this country now, and I remind everybody I would not be here without you is present in be here without you is present in Germany. And it's not a shame that even in living history, and lifetime even in living history, and lifetime memory, people seem to have forgotten the powerful status of the US in Europe, and we need to remind the American president of that.

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the American president of that. I think he's being reminded now in America as well because they have been arguments taking place about this, but I don't think President Trump has forgotten that. I think what we have to get lined up and he is the real nature of what Putin wants. It's not territory. It sovereignty. His ways wanted to recreate the footballers of the old Soviet Union in a greater Russia. We know that. And Ukraine isn't about 20% of their territory.

For him, it's all of Ukraine. So you have a peace deal which is unstable. He will be back. He will build up his Armed Forces, which you could do quite quickly now with the support of people like North Korea, and he will be back in double quick time. And who's to say Ukraine will be in any fit state to be able to defend itself? It was only able to defend itself because of the period between the seizure of Crimea in 2014 and the war, we and the Americans had set about training and arming their troops in a way that made them much better when the Russians came in next time around, and it's the reason they didn't take Kiev and were driven back.

And that's because we got ahead of the game with them and they got a much better Armed Forces than they had at the time when Russia walked into Crimea. So the reality for us is there needs to be a guarantee on anything that happens. And I just don't think that we can separate the Americans from the guarantees. As the honourable lady says, it is of course America that at the end of the day was the ultimate guarantor. Now I agree with the Americans that the West has written on the coattails of the United States for far too long.

We have been guilty of that. We have lived a life that has allowed us to say, well defence spending, we will claim it's this but it's not really this, and there are other bits in it. That's the other reason why President Trump right now is angry about the idea that they should be expected to take this on. So we have to step up, and I'm pleased the Prime Minister has started that process. And I wish him all the best in Washington, but stepping up to increase defence spending absolutely has to happen, and I made a point to him last time I spoke that there was a period when we faced the greatest threat that we had faced when Russia or the Soviet Union put SS 20s into Europe, threatening us.

It was Reagan and Thatcher that helped lead Western Europe, supported by Helmut Kohl and others, to take the tough decision to put cruise missiles into counter that. That was a brave decision run by leadership but centred on the UK and US. He needs to remind President Trump that when the UK and the US are together in a just cause, world is a safer place. When we are divided, it is less safe. I don't care what anybody else says, that relationship is critical to peace and justice in the world.

And I hope that he succeeds in achieving that. So we know that therefore present Putin is keen only in sovereignty. And the reality is that this is critical in our understanding of what peace would amount to you. So I want to conclude by simply saying, if we lose sight of the idea that somehow Ukraine is an important, it's not. It's important to America in a way sometimes that anything they fully understand. I said earlier on that the road to Taiwan and the threats of Taiwan, everything by the way the cost of the war in Ukraine damaged as to the cost of about a trillion in the global economy, any seizure of Taiwan would be nearer $10 trillion effect on the economy.

For those who say why should we in this country be worried about Taiwan? I say in that area around Taiwan, 72% of everything produced today in the world is made there. You tell me that's not as important as Kent is to the United Kingdom. It's exactly the same. So the rotor Taiwan runs through Ukraine why? Because when we fail on Ukraine, when Ukraine gets a terrible deal, when China looks at this and says you know what, they are never going to step in here, it's too far away, they won't do it, they never do, they fell out of Afghanistan, they didn't do anything when Crimea was taken, they've given into us over Ukraine completely, they will do the same over Taiwan.

That is why the road goes to Taiwan, and we will be left behind because we will not have taken the right

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I hope the Prime Minister reminds President Trump that if we fail on President Trump that if we fail on this, then it opens the world again this, then it opens the world again to the rule of totalitarian states. Who will come again and again. As Who will come again and again. As Churchill said, the bitter cup again and again. Every time we fail, every time we do not stand up for those who struggle for freedom, democracy who struggle for freedom, democracy or justice, they will take that and move on.

We have learned this lesson so many times. But we seem to forget it and have to learn it again. Madam Deputy Speaker, what happens today Deputy Speaker, what happens today over Ukraine, over those brave men and women who have lost so much and are going to lose even more yet, if we are not with them and find a way for them to remain a free nation of free people, and of choice, then we are not worth the thousands of years of experience and the fight we have

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Because totalitarianism will rule the day. The question is as on the order

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The question is as on the order paper. We have got quite a few people who want to contribute so I have to put a time limit of five

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minutes to begin with. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I start by thanking the right honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green and his team for securing this important debate securing this important debate today. I know he has long championed Ukraine and the fight against Ukraine and the fight against Russia. There are members on both sides of this House who had been loudly supporting the Ukrainian cause and have made excellent contributions in debates prior to today. I am looking forward to hearing their contributions in this debate as well.

I know many members recently returned from the country and have seen for themselves first hand the horror that has been inflicted upon the Ukrainian people. Having visited the country in September myself, I vividly remember my experience. A hospital in Kyiv being hit while children were on the operating table. The seller of a school I visited being blasted where in March 2022 more than 300 villagers, including villagers -- women and children were rounded up and held captive. Valerie, a former captive held at the school will forever be haunted by what he saw and experienced.

Over 100 people stuffed into a room, so crowded people gasped for air. Including a baby less than two months old. I asked him how he could have had the
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Linsey Farnsworth Portrait Linsey Farnsworth MP (Amber Valley, Labour)
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strength to go back and revisit the strength to go back and revisit the site with us. He said it was a story that had to be told and that people needed to understand the lack of humanity of those Russian soldiers. That school will be forever a marker of the occupation of their village. It is remarkable that three years after the start of the full-scale invasion, in cities in Ukraine, invasion, in cities in Ukraine, civilians can still sit in cafe's and restaurants and life appears normal.

That is until the air raid sirens sounds. A haunting reminder that the Ukrainians are sacrificing a great deal. Not just making sacrifices for themselves, but for us, our values and our freedoms. Whether it be our predecessors standing with Churchill or the creation of nature under the steward's tip of Ernest Bevan, the Labour Party's record on defence has stood the test of time. --'s stewardship. I am pleased to live in a country that has stood tall in the face of tyranny and imperialism, not only through supporting the Ukraine military, but also through welcoming those fleeing from war.

The United Kingdom has welcomed more than 218,000 people who fled the conflict through the family scheme and Homes for Ukraine sponsorship. In the East Midlands, we have taken 8739 people with those in my local authority welcoming in nearly 250 Ukrainians. I don't want to spend time restating words and sentiments across this House in support of Ukraine today. I am sure many on the front lines are paying much attention to our tributes while waves of Russian assaults pummel them.

All those in the city's sheltering from the largest drone attack of the war a few days ago. No matter how beautiful our rhetoric is, Ukrainians do not sleep any better at night through those words. So I do welcome the decision to bring forward a 2.5% spending commitment up to 2027. This money cannot come soon enough for the people I met in Ukraine. I also welcome the further money allocated to intelligence agencies to protect this country from the various threats Russia now poses, including cyberattacks.

I welcome the government leading the way, whether it is on the latest sanctions my honourable friend has already mentioned, announced by the Foreign Secretary on Monday, or the Defence Secretary chairing the Ukraine defence contact group at NATO a few weeks ago. There is much more we can do of course. I would urge the government to consider returning the children adopted from

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mentioned. I would like to start by thanking my honourable friend for calling this debate. I was pleased to this debate. I was pleased to support his application to the Select Committee. I will not start Select Committee. I will not start by reading what I have written on my bit of paper but I will stop bit of paper but I will stop somewhere else. I want to say something about the Ukrainian people. I do not think anyone, least people. I do not think anyone, least of all Putin actually, when he launched his illegal invasion three years ago understood what he was taking on in Ukraine.

The Ukrainian
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Caroline Dinenage Portrait Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
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spirit, ingenuity and incredible ability to innovate and make the most of every asset at their most of every asset at their disposal. To face up to a new form disposal. To face up to a new form Only are you facing old school tanks, trenches and hand to hand tanks, trenches and hand to hand combat, but at the same time the high-tech, drones, the digital, the modern equipment. It shows beyond doubt, and it is a cautionary tale to others who think of invading a sovereign nation, how far people will go.

How hard they will fight when they fight for their friends and neighbours and families. How desperately they will defend their homeland and independence and language and identity. I think it is something that we should all take a moment to reflect upon and paid tribute to them for their incredible bravery. I also want to pay tribute to the British people. Who have reacted to this dreadful situation with so much warmth and of course the government as well. Our government and the opposition are united.

They acted swiftly in the first days of that unprovoked, illegal invasion. Prime Minister Johnson did lead from the front in his defence of Ukraine. And their right to sovereignty and independence. He set the pace for other European countries to follow. He had the backing of the British people. We care about this in my area of Gosport because we have skin in the game. It is an area with a proud history of serving the armed forces, particularly the Royal Navy. Because so typically of the generosity of spirit of Gosport people, so many Ukrainians literally made it their home and at this point, I declare an interest because one of those homes was and still is mine.

I saw the Russian tanks rolling in to the Donbas region, towards Kyiv, and I could not do nothing so my husband and I joined the Homes for Ukraine Scheme. I have never publicly spoken about that before. Gosport welcomed over 300 Ukrainians and after a few weeks after signing the scheme, we were boosted by two women still with us. I now refer to them as my Ukrainian wife and daughter. They and many others have been in the UK almost 3

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years now. I give way. There are many refugees like she described to have a three year Visa described to have a three year Visa but they are now running out. Does she worry with me that the government needs to look at the extension scheme and make sure all Ukrainians we welcomed will have the

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ability to plan for a long-term future? It is almost as if she had read

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It is almost as if she had read what I had written on my paper. I want to know her lottery numbers for next week now. Exactly right. next week now. Exactly right. Because my own Ukrainian family, I call them family because they are now part of my family and they have made lives for themselves here in this country. They have become an asset to our community. In the event Ukraine of course will want and need its brightest and best to return back to rebuild its country.

But I know many of them do not have anything to go back to. Such is the devastation wrought by Russia. 167,000 civilian buildings destroyed by Russia. Unesco says almost 500 cultural sites have been lost as a result of the Russian attempt to So many of the communities Ukrainians have played will not be the same. They will not have anything to go back to. They will miss familiar landmarks, meeting places and most sadly people they wanted to go back to as well. I give

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way. We talked about visas for Ukrainian refugees. I wonder if she recognises the government has recognises the government has already extended the scheme by 18

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already extended the scheme by 18 months? That decision was made this month and has been welcomed by Ukrainian refugees in my constituency. Yes, I think that is very

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Yes, I think that is very welcome. A lot of people want that certainty, to know what to expect and that security of the world around them. But I guess to follow on from one of the comments we heard on from one of the comments we heard earlier, what I wanted to ask the Minister is we hear a lot about planning for the war but I want to know a bit more about what we are going to do to plan for the piece and how to work towards a day when many Ukrainians will be able to return to their home country.

What about those here under the scheme and have made their home here and have made relationships here and have jobs here and are contributing to the communities in which they live? Will they be able to stay indefinitely? I think that is a question people are beginning to ask. As much as we understand Ukraine will want to go back, there are some that simply have nothing to go back to. So to conclude, going forward, contrary to the messaging coming out of the Munich Security conference, there are values we all share as European countries which we must now pay to defend.

But we must also not just use words. We must show action. We must show solidarity. I suppose I really wanted to give the minister, who I know cares about this deeply, the opportunity to affirm their commitment that as the geopolitical weather has changed, our dedication as a nation, a government and as a nation, a government and opposition is incredible and we support the people and their democratically elected president. We will never waver.
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Tim Roca Portrait Tim Roca MP (Macclesfield, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for calling this debate. I was proud to support him. I was with him on that trip to Ukraine with that fantastic charity he referenced earlier. If you told me a year ago that I would have been stood with the Conservatives and Sir Iain Duncan Smith in the snow cooking pizza in Ukraine, I would never have believed you. It was a fascinating visit and important. It highlights the cross- party nature of the support with my honourable friend, as pointed out.

It is so important, in comparison to other countries. I also salute the back benches and front benches to make sure we are working together on this issue going forward into the future as well. We are marking the three year stage of this terrible war. Started by Vladimir Putin. An illegal war of brutality, barbarism and a conflict where Ukraine is literally fighting for its life, its existence as a free, independent nation state. As the first line of their national anthem says, the glory and freedom of Ukraine has not yet perished.

Despite the best efforts of the dictator, Vladimir Putin. We heard earlier something of the scale of that war and the destruction it has brought. Hundreds of thousands of deaths of young men and women on all sides of the conflict. Thousands of civilians. Women, girls, boys. Millions injured. And refugees. We heard about refugees. 7 million Ukrainian refugees and more internally to people. The longer they are away from home, the most likely it is they will return as well. Civilian casualties increased 30% in the last Russia increased using aerial bombardment, drones, missiles and we heard of the Ukrainian hospital visited by many honourable members in Kyiv.

Their version of great form and. What kind of regime deliberately targets hospitals? Landmines are now contaminated, contaminating 130,000 km of Ukraine. 306 attacks in 12 months were on medical facilities. 576 on schools. Nearly double the previous year. Disgracefully we have talked about rules not being followed by Vladimir Putin's armed forces. The UN has recorded an alarming spike in the number of Ukrainian soldiers being executed by the Russian armed forces. There are credible allegations of at least 81 executed in the last six months.

People made reference to Ukrainian prisoners of war. Subjected to appalling crimes. Torture, sexual violence and much Vladimir Putin faces a warrant by the ICC. What for? For abducting thousands of children. The Yale School of Public Health humanitarian research lab says conservative beard, there are least 600,000 children held in camps in Russia at the moment. And the incredible spectre of North Korean troops fighting on the continent for a terrible dictatorship. So I want to talk very briefly because time is short about the security guarantees.

And one of the concerns I have is as the discussion develops about peace in Ukraine is the way flattening Putin is suggesting there should be limits on the Ukrainian Armed Forces themselves after a peace deal. The best security deal there is the one that is operating at the moment, which is a well-equipped, well armed Ukrainian Armed Forces. The brave women and men of Ukraine that have held back Vladimir Putin's evil army. The first principles of any discussion about security guarantees or piece is nothing about Ukraine or piece is nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.

And a further principle in negotiations has to be understanding the character of the man we are dealing with. He is a compulsive liar who breaks his word every opportunity. So that's why those guarantees are so incredibly important. Naturally after Munich and some of the destabilising comments made by some characters in foreign governments, it is natural to be cautious in this space in which we talk very realistically

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about what Britain needs to do. But I will give way. Does he find it ironic that the

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Does he find it ironic that the conference in Munich was like a shadow of the previous conference of Munich that gave away the land and made certain the Second World War would take place? Does he think we will underpin the same position if

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you're not careful? I do. And I think one of the interesting things coming out of interesting things coming out of Munich and the recent discussions some of the staff is not new news. The United States has been telling The United States has been telling Europe to pay for its own defence, step up for many years. The commitment is made in Wales in 2014 of 2% have been kept by all the countries that signed up to them, we would have spent another $800 billion on our collective defence since that time, so countries do need to step up and make sure they are meeting their commitments.

And we need to be realistic about our role in this, leading European partner, leading member of NATO and we are a leading ally of the United States. I do worry that the last two weeks and people have been very quick to throw out eight years of the important transatlantic alliance. It's crucial for the security of this country but also for the security of our continent.

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Does he agree that talking about the end of NATO is a very dangerous the end of NATO is a very dangerous way of putting it? We in Europe cannot continue with NATO without cannot continue with NATO without the United States in it, and it's important to remind the United

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States of it. I completely agree with her. That's why I've been reassured that the garment has talked about as having a native first defence policy, the Prime Minister reaffirmed that this week. And I should say with all the drama has should say with all the drama has been in the last couple of weeks, what's been reassuring is the steady hand and leadership that the Prime Minister and Defence Secretary and government as a whole have shown on these issues. They've reacted calmly, coolly, to the challenge that has been posed and the whole House yesterday you saw gave the Prime Minister their very good wishes and very good luck in the urgent task he has with President Trump, convincing him of the importance of Ukraine to the security not only of United States and Europe but of its link, the very important link that my honourable friend made to dictatorships across the world, and not allowing the principle of might is right to succeed.

Because then we go down a very dangerous road. When this country was fighting for its life, and of course there is a dangerous tendency of which parties should always refer back to that time, so I will full into that trap, Harry helps in -- Harry Hopkins, President Roosevelt's personal friend was visiting Glasgow, and he gave a speech in Glasgow which he finished with a quote from the book of Ruth, where thou goest shall go, even to the end.

That should be Britain, Europe and the United States attitude towards Ukraine, solidarity, unyielding support, and remembering the glory and freedom of Ukraine has not yet perished.

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Thank you to the right honourable member for agreeing to bring forward this debate and giving me the opportunity to support it. The third anniversary of Russia's latest force anniversary of Russia's latest force make full-scale invasion of Ukraine, make full-scale invasion of Ukraine, just in the war itself, but on what is at stake for all of us. Last week I attended a gathering in my
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James MacCleary Portrait James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
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constituents worry met Ukrainians who weren't happy to say had found a home there. -- Where. They had done far more to build their own lives, Ukrainian culture alive and continue their singing, it's really beautiful. And sent a tobacco including Christmas presents for children and Ukrainian hospitals will top children's lives you have been shattered by Russian bombs first I think of those children, children like mine who three years ago would have gone to school in the morning, come home, played with their friends, gone to bed only to be woken up by air raid sirens rushed to their air raid shelters by their parents, listening to Russian bombs smash into buildings above the heads.

That's the reality, innocent children and people whose only crime is living in a country that Putin decided to target but as we can all seek Ukrainian resistance has been nothing short of heroic. For three years against the odds, Ukrainian people have proudly stood their ground, fighting not just for their own freedom but for the kind of world we want to live in. And Britain must stand with Ukraine, from day one the UK has not provided military aid and training to economic pressure on Russia.

British families of open their homes Ukrainian refugees, but today the West's commitments are being tested in ways I never thought I would witness. With President Trump hobbling -- peddling Russian propaganda direct from the White House, the future of US support is uncertain. Bellamy be clear, if America wavers, then Britain and Europe must step up. That entails action, not just words for the Britain's economic support and long-term investment plans it is five and win, going further, defrosting and seizing the billions in phrasing frozen Russian assets, stashed in London, Paris, Berlin and elsewhere and converting them to a financial lifeline for Ukraine.

And the threat is not limited Ukraine. The right honourable member mentioned Taiwan and how that part of the world are so heavily affected by this, but I draw attention to Russia's hybrid warfare closer to home, and destabilising countries such as Georgia, Moldova, Romania, Belarus and elsewhere. Kremlin backed elites like Belarus dictator or Georgian oligarch are working to undermine democracy and pull their countries back into Moscow's orbit. Britain cannot allow Putin's cronies to operate and checked. We must follow the US and European Parliament in sanctioning those enabling his war machine.

If Putin uses. Other tyrants will be watching. This isn't just about defending Ukrainian sovereignty, is about defending international rules-based order that safeguards us all, a order that we helped build, for instance extracting raw materials to the point of a gun. Some say Britain should step back and retrieving global leadership but history will judge the choices we make now. We appease aggression or stand firm in the face of tyranny? And as has been previous dimension, I know we all wish the Prime Minister well and having these sorts of discussions with US President today.

There is no middle ground. We've let Putin tighten his grip on Europe we push back. Now we look to the future. Any peace deal must be just that, not a temporary ceasefire to allow Putin's forces to rest, rearm and go again. It must be backed with real security guarantees and to clearly state that part of this war, and the bear responsibility for its consequences. Make they started it. Some speak about picking sides and the new geopolitical landscape. There is only one side the UK can back come the side of freedom, rule of law and the liberal international order.

The site that reflects the values of this country, and I believe this House. So there is no middle ground. We either let Putin tighten his grip on Europe will be pushed back. Push back by standing unwavering in our commitment to Ukraine's victory because their fight is our fight to. This is a battle for freedom, a battle for justice, and a battle we cannot afford to lose.
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Johanna Baxter Portrait Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
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I thank the Member for Chingford for the debate today, and happy to support it. Like some other colleagues in the chamber today, I spent time in a bomb shouting Keith. As Russia launched a massive drone attack on the city, and across many others across Ukraine. The terrifying experience I was proud to join the U.K.'s cross-party delegation to Ukraine to mark the third anniversary of Putin's illegal invasion into Ukraine. It is of course a grim milestone in a conflict that has claimed the lives of thousands of innocent Ukrainian civilians.

As the only female MP in the delegation, I do think it would be remiss of me not to tell the House about the vital role women are playing in this conflict. James Brown once said it's a man's world, but it would be nothing without a woman. The strength and bravery takes many forms, and Ukrainian women are showing extraordinary resilience, not just in defending Ukraine against Russian aggression but in rebuilding a nation that refuses to be broken. As the House will know, when Russian forces invaded Ukraine on 24 February when Russian forces invaded Ukraine on 24 February 2022, President Zelenskyy ordered that all able-bodied men from 18 to 60 years old were to remain to bolster Ukraine's defences.

But Ukrainian women also stepped up. Today, more than 50,000 women are signed up to the Ukrainian army. One in 10 of those women held a senior position. And more than 4,000 are directly engaged in frontline combat. This week I had the pleasure of meeting some of the women who have served in the frontline. There was no mandatory conscription for Ukrainian women, meaning that every single woman that has signed up has done so voluntarily, driven by their immovable resolve to defend their home.

But women are also playing a vital role of the battlefield. They've been vital in sustaining the economy against Putin's war machine. Ukraine have changed the law so that women can fill labour gaps in mining, transportation, logistics, agriculture, ensuring those critical sectors continue to function in the face of bombardment from Putin's forces. Today, one in every two new businesses started in Ukraine was started by a woman. And I met women who were camped out in drone factories, making the kit that is being sent to the frontline.

They do all of this whilst... Many of them have lost their fathers, their brothers, their husbands. I will

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give way. The noble Lady makes a very very powerful point, and there are times in this place when it's very in this place when it's very difficult to speak and to remain and keep ones composure. She's done a keep ones composure. She's done a fantastic job. But I think we would all agree with her that our hearts

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all agree with her that our hearts go out to those Ukrainian people, and they certainly deserve all the support. I thank the honourable member for

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I thank the honourable member for her statement. Whilst those her statement. Whilst those Ukrainian women are fighting, and sustaining their country, they are also the mothers to their 19,000 to their 19,500 -- 19,546 children who have been kidnapped by Russia. And I want to tell the House about why .4 of the president is so vital to securing adjust into this war. When Russian forces invaded the Oblast in the Ukraine, they forcibly removed children from Ukraine to Russia.

This is genocide as we know it in international law. In one case a child was taken by Russian forces, his new name, date of birth are unknown. Russia has consistently denied the existence of this child and thousands of others. Some of the children and up in Russia's youth military, conscripted to fight a war against a country that is a war crime, and before any ceasefire, the

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Talk of tanks and machine guns is unlikely to remove the minds of unlikely to remove the minds of people that live so far from Ukraine. But Madam Deputy Speaker, Ukraine. But Madam Deputy Speaker, it is the women who are playing a vital role in this war. Their vital role in this war. Their stories will move the minds of stories will move the minds of people that live so far from Ukraine. It is their story, their fight for survival, for democracy, that we in this House hold so dear.

We must support them with all the mites that we have. Long live

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Ukraine. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I start by congratulating Mike right honourable friend, the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green for securing this important debate? I securing this important debate? I salute him for the work he has done in leading on this issue. As always, we have seen many colleagues from we have seen many colleagues from across this House in the chamber across this House in the chamber today serving as a timely reminder of the united approach we have taken
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Neil Shastri-Hurst Portrait Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst MP (Solihull West and Shirley, Conservative)
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in the face of hardship. Many have spoken before not just in this debate but in the course of this week on the importance of the week on the importance of the announcement, the welcome government announcement in terms of increased defence spending and the need for defence spending and the need for allies to also step up to the game. I do not intend to repeat those I do not intend to repeat those arguments today. But I will add it is not as alone who determine defence spending.

It is our enemies but also our allies. With the United States announcing a potential step back from their support for Ukraine, it is clear we as a nation have an overriding obligation not only to Ukraine, but to our citizens and the wider world to step up and keep Putin's war machine at bay. If we fail to do so, we open the gates to a totalitarian set of regimes across the world and moving forwards. The reality is the United Kingdom has an Armed Forces which is fit for peace but in the last eight months or so we have entered a more dangerous arena.

We need to be ready for any arena. We need to be ready for any outcome. In the time available to me, I want to raise two points. First, I reiterate the point made by my honourable friend in terms of the increasingly pressing need to release and commit that £300 million of frozen Russian assets, in order to enable the Ukrainian government to rebuild their country. The second point picks up from the comments of Mike right honourable friend in his opening remarks.

About what we learn from the conflict and what we can learn as an Armed Forces. What we have seen from the heroic efforts of the Ukraine military, many made the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of the sovereignty of their country, is that we can learn from this. What the war has shown is there is a shift in the nature of warfare. The nature of each serving personnel and their working reality. War is a more hybrid state fought long land, air and sea round but also in remote locations.

And yet we still follow traditional guidelines on who can serve and who does not have the opportunity. This is where I feel we can learn from Ukraine. Who very early on in the conflict amended and adjusted many medical requirements for serving personnel. In our military there is often a mindset of soldier first which will mean there is an exemption for somebody who may have suffered a knee injury playing sport at school, anyone wearing glasses of a certain prescription. Rather than making a generic medical exemption list, I would invite the Minister to at least consider tailoring the requirements to the position he applied for.

The reality is what are the chances of your glasses being blown off if you are operating from a chair many hundreds of miles away? What is the reality of an intelligence officer in a remote location looking at satellite information losing feeling in their fingertips because of cold? What are fingertips because of cold? What are the chances of a royal navy dental officer not being able to complete a checkup because of pain in his knees? We need to be more flexible.

I accept there is some hyperbole in my argument but the point I make is serious. To turn the tide on our policy and our difficulties in this country, we need to tailor the medical requirements to the specific medical requirements to the specific roles. We must become more versatile and adapt as a fighting force. Like our friends in Ukraine. As a country we are often guilty of preparing for the war we have had rather than the war we will face in the future.

As we reflect on the three years since Putin's illegal invasion, I invite the government to waste no more time and to learn from what we have at

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the cost of so many thousands of Ukrainian lives. Let me congratulate the
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Liam Byrne Portrait Rt Hon Liam Byrne MP (Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North, Labour)
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Let me congratulate the honourable gentleman for securing this debate and anyone who has this debate and anyone who has spoken. One individual said the best defence against tyranny is the living truth. So on this third anniversary we have the opportunity to repeat truths to this house. That Ukraine is a democracy. Democracy is need defending. The best way to defend democracy is for democratic nations to come together with unity of purpose around our values. We should not have to remind the world Ukraine as a democracy.

But some have impugned it. But we know in this House sometimes all democratic countries face challenges. This country once had to suspend elections during the height of World War II. I and even old enough to remember when thousands of people invaded the United States Congress because they wanted to overturn a democratic election and nullify the result in the election of President Biden. Let us be very clear and send Biden. Let us be very clear and send a message from this House that we do not regard President Zelensky to be a dictator.

We regard President Zelensky to be a hero of democracy and we in the West should have his back. Second, we have to remember that at times a democracy will need defending. Especially against dictators. Especially when it comes to Russia. President Zelensky is on the front line of efforts to contain Russia on behalf of all of us. Russia is a country that invades its neighbours time and time again. They have been invading their neighbours since the days of Ivan the Terrible.

Invading their neighbours on eight different occasions since 1945. They have invaded their neighbours on average once every decade since the end of the Second World War. Based on that threat, why on earth have we made concessions now? 700,000 people have been lost in this war. Russia faces a NATO that is bigger and stronger. Russia is going to run out of tanks in April. They have lost more itinerary -- artillery in the last year than the previous two put together.

Russia at the height of the war controlled 19.6% of Ukraine territory. Today they control less. 19.2%. In the face of that weakness, why would we make concessions now to those who want to make Russia great again? Confront them with strength and not weakness. That is how peace is secured. The final point I wanted to make is that it is vital for us across the West now to unite around our values and celebrate those values and not attack each other.

I am worried that what began as political improvisation in the United States has become under the new president a political project. I new president a political project. I am worried about what sounds like a report made of the Athenian threat all those years ago. That the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. Well in this country, we know how that story ends. When we talk about the rules- based order we do not mean the rules of the poker table.

We don't simply mean the rules we set out at the end of World War II. We do not simply believe in a rules-based order but a rights-based order that ensures our freedom, enshrined in the declaration on human rights at the end of the Second World War and in the Council of Europe Convention on Human Rights, co-authored by this country, based on Churchill's vision of a great charter. Those are the right we should be celebrating. They mean freedom for all of us. Those rights, values, freedoms, must be defended with strength.

The decision of the Prime Minister to increase defence spending was right. This House will need reassurance that money can be well spent but crucially, given the cuts now involved in the aid budget, we must think hard, creatively and quickly about how we now lead a great multilateral effort around the world. We need to think in this 80th anniversary about reinventing the monetary fund for new time so that they are bigger and better in the world to come. That is the way we become evangelists for the rights being defended valiantly by Ukraine

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on the continent of Europe. I would like to thank the honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green for bringing forward Woodford Green for bringing forward this important debate. I recognise this important debate. I recognise quite rightly the debate focused on our responsibility to support the Ukraine War effort against Putin's unprovoked, illegal attack. I would
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Jess Brown-Fuller Portrait Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
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unprovoked, illegal attack. I would like to talk about our continued like to talk about our continued As the members for Gosport As the members for Gosport and As the members for Gosport and Bath mentioned in their contributions. Since the start of the Russian invasion into Ukraine, more than 218,000 Ukrainians have arrived in the UK under the family and sponsorship scheme. I am proud of my constituency of Chichester, which has taken in more refugees than any other city in this country. They have become a valued part of our community.

More than ever we must stand firmly with Ukrainian friends, defending their sovereign territory but also ensuring that those here can live safely and comfortably. The original visa scheme as the Minister will know was for three year visas. With the three-year anniversary marked this week, many of those visas are now expiring. Ukrainians have been asked by the government to apply for the permission extension scheme, extending their visa for another 18 months. But they are only allowed to apply for that extension scheme when their visa has 28 days or less left on it.

This is causing a myriad of difficulty for that community. Including their ability to renew employment contracts, extend leases or find new accommodation and set up new leases on rented accommodation, or commit to education opportunities. I recently visited a school in Chichester last month and met a group of Ukrainian students. Not only have they become well liked pupils by staff and students but they have also excelled in their studies and are expected to finish A-levels with high grades across the boards in subjects like mathematics and science.

Those students are the doctors and scientists of the future. Yet there is no clear direction from the Department for Education regarding how they should . Be it by the same route as UK counterparts they studied with or as refugees, or international students. I have raised this with the Secretary of State. I hope they will be clear guidance in the future for those students desperate to study in the UK. I give way.

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I thank my honourable friend for giving way. I spoke to many Ukrainian Family Scheme have made Ukrainian Family Scheme have made their homes in my constituency after fleeing Russian aggression in Ukraine. Many are concerned about the decision to exclude time spent the decision to exclude time spent in the UK under the residency route. in the UK under the residency route. That is different to other schemes and it could be subject to costly and it could be subject to costly legal challenges.

Does my honourable

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friend share my concerns over this? I thank the honourable member for her intervention and share her concerns that the time spent here is concerns that the time spent here is not counting towards right to remain unsettled status and as the Member for Gosport mentioned, they have found homes and build communities in the UK. They would like to know either way what will happen in future. The young people I was speaking about are often cared for by one parent or by grandparents while other family members defend while other family members defend Ukraine.

Some families have reported estate agents are requesting from single-parent families a six month deposit upfront to rent to Ukrainian families. That is untenable across the country but especially in areas like Chichester where the average one-bedroom flat is £1200 per month. Employers are asking for proof of status and that is causing additional stress when families wait for these decisions. Sometimes days before expiry. And for Ukrainians on zero hours contracts it impacts upon their ability to earn money and contribute to society and provide a safe roof for their dependents.

If the Ukrainians got a window of 90 days from exploration, which was originally proposed by the Home Office, rather than the very short timeframe they are given, the situation could be much improved. I would like to thank the UK charity supporting the Ukrainians in the UK for the support they are giving those families in navigating what can often be a difficult, convoluted and long process to reapply for these schemes. And also for giving me the time to brief me on the situation these families find themselves in.

I know conversations today will be on what we can do for Ukraine and our steadfast support shared across the house. I hope the Minister is working closely with the Home Office so while we support those brave Ukrainians defending their country, we can continue to support the community of Ukrainians

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Yesterday, I went through a
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Marie Rimmer Portrait Ms Marie Rimmer MP (St Helens South and Whiston, Labour)
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Yesterday, I went through a speech I made three years ago. Ukrainians and Zelenskyy have displayed the highest level of displayed the highest level of bravery, brave in the face of ruthlessness, and the eyes of Vladimir Putin, Ukraine gave the choice to decide on independence and democratic free countries. Like all dictators, Putin was terrified of losing power. It did not fit with his plan of the great Russia. But Ukrainians made the choice they wanted to be European country, wanted to be a member of NATO, to make their own choices, make no mistakes.

Ukrainians were fighting this war on behalf of all of us. And I said that our way of life depends on it because quite frankly, it does. The world is watching. The dictators of the world of the last decade, China, Russia, Iran. Russia pushed further. My speech went on to urge more action as Ukraine was asking for help, and each day, these decisions were being deliberated on. It should have been done at a much quicker case. It should have been achieved.

Like it has been said, we are not fighting this properly. We are not together. It is a big issue, this. It is Russia, Putin, and he is an evil man. His KGB colleagues, thank you for the opening speech. It was absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much. His KGB is inhuman. North Korea, they have been working together. China, Iran, North Korea. They are all working at this together. It has been planned. I agree entirely with what has been said earlier today.

There are North Koreans here on Monday, Tuesday night, and they are fighting. They have 100,000 disposal in Ukraine. And when they get killed and maimed, they burn their faces and hands off so they cannot be recognised as North Koreans. That is how evil this man is. Putin orchestrated the bombing that resulted the deaths of 300 of his own people to help start the walk for power. He had political opponents shot, approved poisoning on British soil that resulted in the death of British citizens.

Pre- recorded's declaration of war on Ukraine after which he pretended to be open to diplomacy. Putin will not stop. You cannot please this man. I understand why NATO could not get directly involved, but short of that, we should have been doing absolute everything at a much speedier pace, but I don't point a finger of blame at anybody. We are not looking at this as serious as it is. It is as much a calamity as 1945.

Last week, the world was shocked. They spilled Ukrainian blood for nothing as the elected president of the US openly sided with Russia to achieve the peace, but it's unilaterally directed. As profound as the US president has launched the argument that might is right, strongmen around the globe and international law on multinational institutions are eviscerated. Nor, as a former head of M-16, told BBC Newsnight that there is no going back. Our thoughts and support with the Prime Minister Keir Starmer especially today, we wish him every success in his discussions later today.

We all have to step up. We all have to be absolutely united. We have got to absolutely united. We have got to grow up. We are talking about things that really, we should be looking at other things now. We are at war. It is very important for the world.

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Thank you. We stand united with

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Thank you. We stand united with the whole of this house in support of Ukraine and all brave Ukrainians of Ukraine and all brave Ukrainians against the monstrous tyranny of that most evil, evil villain Putin. that most evil, evil villain Putin. We all also know. Not even warming We all also know. Not even warming up. I will just make a little more
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Richard Tice Portrait Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)
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up. I will just make a little more progress. Just over 13 months ago, I donated to acquire a 4x4 pickup truck and fill it with first-aid medical supplies and drive it with other volunteers to Ukraine, and to give it to those brave soldiers on the frontline, and I remember meeting the extraordinary technicians making the drains, including brilliant bright children. Helping to develop new drone technology. And tragically, I stood in a cemetery and watched the mums we over the graves of their sons.

That cemetery has now almost doubled in size in just 12 months. So, we all know that that maxim of peace through strength has always stood the test of time in history, today, and in the future, and that is why at the election, we had to half percent and 3% within six years, and that is why we support the Prime Minister in his statements earlier this week in making the same commitments, and I'm hoping the 3% will be a firm commitment.

Peace will be a firm commitment. Peace through strength is vital. As others have said, we all want peace, not least the brave Ukrainians. They want peace, and it must be right to try for a peace deal however difficult. Most wars and conflicts do end up in some form of negotiation however difficult, however tough, however tense.

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I thank the gentleman for giving way and I just wanted if he agreed with the leader of his party, the with the leader of his party, the member for Clacton when he said in member for Clacton when he said in 2014 the Vladimir Putin was the

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global leader that he most admired. Thank you for the statement. The issue is that Putin is a vile dictator. We all know that, and my dictator. We all know that, and my leader has also confirmed that it is Putin that is the aggressor in this war, and I was just moving on in the time allotted to the issue of how we get to a durable peace.

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I respect his personal position

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I respect his personal position on this, but can he explain why the leader of his party thought that the priority for President Zelenskyy priority for President Zelenskyy should be to set a timetable for elections. When Winston Churchill facing a dictator didn't hold them because we were under martial law, does he agree?

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does he agree? Any peace deal can only work if it has the support and involvement of all Ukrainians, and of course, in the Second World War, we had elections in the summer of 1945 before the Second World War had ended, so that was appropriate then, and at some point, the Ukrainians will need to be involved in supporting a peace deal if we get there, but a peace deal is only durable, it only works if it enjoys, and that means you have to have the security guarantees to ensure that the aggressor would never ever attack again, and those security guarantees is what we must focus on, and all be involved in and ensure that it is strong robust deterrent, and if we get those guarantees right, then hopefully, Putin and Russia will never ever try this monstrous activity and invasion ever

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again. I too, like many of my honourable

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I too, like many of my honourable friends, members across the house, have just returned from Ukraine last night. The monstrous 24-hour night. The monstrous 24-hour journey, and I am mentally and physically exhausted after the experiences, and I can't say much
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David Burton-Sampson Portrait David Burton-Sampson MP (Southend West and Leigh, Labour)
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experiences, and I can't say much what I experienced in five minutes. I could talk about what I experienced for days. I really could. I want to thank my honourable friends for Leeds Central and Headingley and friends of Ukraine for the visit that they organised. It was truly fantastic to be there, but also, deeply emotional to be there, and I have nothing but respect and admiration for the Ukrainian people. Their stoicism and their resolving getting through this illegal war.

They just keep functioning as though it is normal life. The buildings get bombed and they don't just leave them crumbled on the ground. They rebuild them. Soldiers get injured and they are in hospitals telling us they want to get back on the front line as soon as possible. This is the ingredients for a country set to take on Putin and set to win this war. I had experiences of two nights in an air raid shelter. The first night with my honourable friends, and that night, it was a little bit scary but there was a sense of comrade Ray between all of a sudden that shelter.

I stayed on an extra night because I was heading up to Tel Aviv the following day to meet the people there, and that night, I was in the shelter alone. And during that, you have a lot of time to reflect. You have a lot of time to reflect on what is going on outside that shelter, and the more the night went on, the more I became fearful, especially when I heard that there won't just drains out but missiles flying around above my head potentially.

The Ukrainians go through this every night and they have been for three years now. There is a massive mental health issue developing, a massive PTSD issue developing with the Ukrainian citizens, and we need to be there and ready to support them when they come through this conflict because it is going to be a really big issue for the country. Up in Tel Aviv, I had a chance to meet with people who are on the frontline of Belarus and Russia, and they are literally impacted by this war in ways you can't imagine every single day.

I met with the governor, and he had some stats prepared in the presentation of how many buildings had been prepared this year and how many had been injured and how many been killed, and I said that statistic is wrong because the building was destroyed this morning and another three people were killed. Literally, it is changing constantly. But the greatest message I got from Ukraine and from the people of Ukraine is that they are incredibly, incredibly grateful for the support that the UK have given them since day one and that they continue to give them today.

They see us as the leader in the support because it got them through this conflict. That came from so many Ukrainians. This war is real. I witnessed that for myself, as did my honourable friends. There are bombed out buildings everywhere, air raids taking place, and what brought it home to me was the day in love if which isn't massively impacted, but there was a cemetery that was full of soldiers just from there. We walked to the back of that cemetery where there were three graves that had been filled in that morning with had been filled in that morning with There are three further open graves that three further men from Lyiv were about to go into that afternoon.

That is the reality of this war. And that is why we have to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Ukrainian people. They are relying Ukrainian people. They are relying

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on us. We have to be stoic. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I start popping tribute to my right I start popping tribute to my right honourable friend the member for Chingford and Woodford Green. For Chingford and Woodford Green. For providing us with a platform to show this house at its best. Coming together in the face of Russian together in the face of Russian aggression in Ukraine. A chance for us to stand together in solidarity. us to stand together in solidarity.

Because of course three years ago the world watched in horror as Russian forces launched their brutal full-scale illegal invasion of Ukraine. The images of tanks rolling
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Wendy Morton Portrait Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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across the border and the shelling of innocent civilians will remain of innocent civilians will remain see it in our minds forever. And yet despite the Kremlin's relentless despite the Kremlin's relentless aggression, Ukrainian people have shown extraordinary courage, shown extraordinary courage, determination, resilience, and we share some of those stories here today. They continue to fight not today. They continue to fight not just for their good but for the principles that apply to our principles that apply to our security here, democracy, and the rule of law.

I have had that privilege of visiting Ukraine twice. First in 2021 during my time as a Foreign Minister and again in 2023. Each visit left a very deep impression on me. In 2021, I had the honour of standing alongside Ukrainian leaders at the launch of the Crimean platform reaffirming the U.K.'s commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty. When I returned in 2023 with the Westminster Foundation of Democracy and I must refer members to my Register of Interests, the contrast was so stark.

I met parliamentarians, civil society leaders and local officials, many of whom had lost loved ones in the conflict. Their resilience was and still is unwavering. The determination is undimmed. It is that spirit that must continue to guide us in this place in our response. Of course the UK has led the way in supporting Ukraine. The previous Conservative government was among the first to provide advanced weaponry including anti-tank missile's, long-range precision weapons and air range missiles. Played a key role in training Ukrainian troops in military aid.

So I welcome the government's commitment to military aid until the end of the decade. But this support must continue to ensure Ukraine has the weapons and strategic backing needed to defeat Russian aggression. Let us be clear, this is not just about helping Ukraine, is about our own national security. Russia's actions represent the most blatant breach of sovereignty and territorial integrity seen in Europe since the Second World War. If we falter in the face of this aggression, we invite further instability.

We know that Putin's ambitions do not stop at Ukraine's borders. The threats that he poses to NATO allies including in the Baltic region, is real and growing. That is why I welcome the government's decision to increase spending on defence to 2.5% of GDP in 2027. This is an important and overdue step and I commend the government for recognising, as my party does, that security requires sustained investment. The war on Ukraine has also demonstrated the power people to people solidarity as the member for Chingford and Woodford Green West has said.

Chingford and Woodford Green, yes. I am being prompted here. Always present. The U.K.'s Homes for Ukraine Scheme has provided sanctuary to thousands of Ukrainians fleeing war. I want to pay tribute to British families including those in my constituency who have opened their homes. And communities who have welcome them with open arms. Their kindness reflects the very best of our country. I would like to ask the Minister, if perhaps the government considers some sort of recognition scheme or some way of thanking these families at the appropriate time for their kindness and generosity.

This week, as we mark this very grim anniversary, we must ensure those displaced by war continue to receive the support they need, both here and in Ukraine. We must remain resolute in holding Russia accountable and our response must be unwavering, ensuring that we tackle all aspects of Russian aggression. Let's be clear, Ukraine's fight is our fight. If we stand by them today, we strengthen our own security for the future. And if we falter in Bolton aggressors everywhere.

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As other members have alluded to,

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As other members have alluded to, a number of us went to Ukraine and was sat in a bomb shelter in Kyiv as was sat in a bomb shelter in Kyiv as Ukrainian military works to clear Ukrainian military works to clear the drones. Within that city, a beautiful European city, the great cities of Europe, were filled with cities of Europe, were filled with freedom loving well-educated population that is committed to liberating their country. It is no different from our own.

As one of the 16 strong delegation to the European Strategy Conference, never before in history of that conference is that city come under bombardment while European Parliament Aryans were present. All killing members of a NATO country. Something has changed and we all know what it is. We need to wake up. For most of America's history, the country has been isolationist. After the First World War they retreated back into isolationism. After the second they would have done so were it not for the Cold War.

Since the end of the Cold War, were it not for September 11 which brought George W Bush back into the world having been elected on a program of isolationism, all three presidents since the end of
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Peter Lamb Portrait Peter Lamb MP (Crawley, Labour)
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about Europe. It is about the fact we can no longer rely on American we can no longer rely on American security. And if we were living in peaceful times this would be worrying enough. But the fact that Europe is at war. The argument have Europe is at war. The argument have already been well made, we know if Ukraine falls it will be a NATO Ukraine falls it will be a NATO country next and likely a general nuclear war as part of Putin's request to rebuild Russia.

We must accept that we are at war. A Cold War, but will nonetheless stop mutual countries do not attack UK info structure, they do not test UKAS based and territorial waters. Mutual countries do not put nerve agents into the streets of Salisbury or openly discuss that the Americans have given them licence to bomb London. These are the actions of an enemy state. Since the announcement on Tuesday, I have received correspondence from constituents expressing concerns about cuts to international aid.

I want to be frank with people, I believe that many many more painful decisions will follow if we are going to do what is necessary to ensure the defence of our country. Our defence against an enemy power. We must mobilise. No American security guarantee or European guarantee that the UK must play a central role in. This must mean if we are to replace the total manpower of the US military, the number already exists within the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

1 million of the American military, 1 million Ukrainians. They don't need more people. They are already on Europe's front lines. Holding back the enemy. What they need from us is our combined economic and intellectual power across the continent dedicated to our collective victory. Speaking with those in Ukraine, not only politicians and soldiers but the everyday residents we met on our travels. They are content to go on fighting no matter how long it takes, alone if we must. Hand-to- hand if totally necessary.

We cannot allow things to come to that. Three years into the conflict, why do Ukrainians still want bullets and shells? Why do they struggle to access sufficient weaponry? Why are we training soldiers in batches in the UK and have not set up colleges in Ukraine to train them en masse? If Putin is standing on the French coast, would we not have resolved this in months if not weeks? We are at war, it is a war we can and must win.

If we are to do that we must be prepared to do whatever it takes starting today. Slava Ukraini.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Can I start by paying tribute to the Can I start by paying tribute to the right honourable Member for Chingford and Woodford Green for his Chingford and Woodford Green for his outstanding and, hence speech. So many people have died in this war so
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Olly Glover Portrait Olly Glover MP (Didcot and Wantage, Liberal Democrat)
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many people have died in this war so far, United Nations figures suggest 12,654 at least civilians have lost their lives and over 27,000 injured. With Nilli 147,000 war crimes committed in 167,000 civilian buildings damaged by Russia since the invasion began. Of course the true death toll is likely to be higher as Ukraine and its national bodies do not have access to Russian occupied areas of Ukraine and areas on the front line, most particularly the city of Mariupol that was largely destroyed.

This is a tragedy which cannot continue. And yet, with so much darkness, a chink of light is how it has shown the best of our nation. Our generosity towards Ukraine. How we have welcomed refugees and how we have worked internationally to get cooperation against Russia. In my constituency, our District Council have gone a long way to welcome and help refugees and the many families that have hosted them, enabled by the Homes for Ukraine Scheme. In a village with a population of just 350, they have hosted dozens of villages earning significant coverage for their generosity.

In another small village, many families also will have been hosted. And I want to give an example of the journey for one of those families that they have faced. One family, a mother and two children aged 17 and six were they came had already fled from Donetsk in 2014, and the first Russian aggression, and yet again in 2022 to the United Kingdom. A 17 year old who managed to get a place at Nottingham University and is looking forward to starting his studies, or have started to study.

The mother took the six year back to Ukraine last April having Mr husband so much and the host UK family is still in regular contact with her and her son. In Didcot, the Help Ukraine Support has collected huge amounts of toiletries and other things and sent huge pallets over to Ukraine, for example in a shelter for displaced families. They reckon it has helped to shelter 2000 families, and 72 critically ill children. The same organisation collected and donated laptops to a school to enable children to get online.

I want to say a bit about why I care so much about that Ukraine war. Beyond the obvious reasons. I have a Polish mother, the country which also has hugely suffered under Russian aggression in the past retains a genuine fear of that nation to this day. This war matters to Ukraine, it matters to Europe, but it also matters specifically for us. We hoped Russia would stop after its 2008 invasion of Georgia. It did not. We hoped it would stop after an extinct Crimea in 2014.

It didn't. We hoped it would stop after years of war in the Donbas. It didn't. We hoped Russia would stop after its brutal bombing of Syria in support of the dictator in the 2010s. It didn't. It is really important that we learn from that and ensure any piece that we do have does not further emboldened Russia. Where do we go from here? Firstly, our communities and councils need long-term support to continue hosting refugees and looking after Ukrainians. Many honourable members have made remarks on this.

In terms of peace, yes, of course we all want peace but it has to be on Ukraine's terms. And of course there is so much talk the moment of peace guarantees, we should remember that supposedly they have been the before in the form of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its new key weapons in support of supposedly guaranteed for peace. So we cannot have cheap talk of guarantees now. You need to learn why the past ones did not work.

And of course we need European defence cooperation and investment in our Armed Forces. Hit many honourable members have been optimistic that the United States will not turn permanently in a direction away from Europe. But in case that optimism is misplaced, we need to build up our defence forces and cooperate across Europe using those frozen Russian assets, so we have a high quality defence force have a high quality defence force This war has brought huge suffering to the people of Ukraine, separating families and orphaned children, but it has also shown the spirit of kindness as a unifying force.

We must work with our allies to ensure the freedom and prosperity of

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Ukraine and our continent. Keeping our nation safe, preserving Ukraine for the future means showing Putin that we and our means showing Putin that we and our allies have resolved and resources to defeat him. Showing him that any to defeat him. Showing him that any war is the best way to prevent any
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Jeevun Sandher Portrait Dr Jeevun Sandher MP (Loughborough, Labour)
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war is the best way to prevent any wider conflict. Winning wars is a matter of resources and converting them to fighting forces. We lost the first battles of World War II but we won by converting our greater resources. Lincoln did the same in the Civil War, so it is now. We must reduce Russian resources and prepare ourselves. Russia's economy is straining at the seams. Putin's demand for war material is outstripping the ability of his economy to supply it.

The official inflation rate at 10% possibly double. Three-quarter is of Russian firms facing staff shortages. Putin is losing tanks more quickly than he can replace them. His national wealth fund has halved. But Russia is still out producing us in shells and fighting forces. It's Armed Forces will reach 1.5 million. And Russia can rebuild, and Putin will rebuild and he will come back. So we can and must do more to reduce Russia's resources. Firstly seizing those central bank assets rather than letting Putin rebuild his own fighting forces.

Secondly, strengthening the oil pace gap by making London insurance for imports dependent on the proper verification of documents, and thirdly, stronger export control to stop Western goods ending up in Russian tanks. That is what we can do right now. Deterring and defeating Putin is one and the same. Our economic power is greater. Our NATO's GDP in Europe is 12 times greater than Putin in Russia. But our capacity to convert that economic power into fighting forces is what we must do next.

Having prosperity means nothing if we do not have the forces to defend it, so yes, this is about percentage we spend on defence, but it is about so much more than that as well. For Europe as a whole, long-term orders to build capacity, securing strategic inputs like steel and the ability to scale rapidly if we must. And if we do face war, then we must be prepared for one. Fighting a total war, converting an entire nations production into maximising fighting forces is a problem that none of has ever known.

But that could be the economic problem before us. It will change for maximising growth from maximising living standards to maximising the production of war, of guns, of tanks, of drains. In the rough outline to the answer is this. Figuring out national income, deciding the proportion that can be allocate to war memorial. Using tax for those that can best afford it, transferring to the government to what is needed. If demand runs ahead of supply, that will lead to inflation, so that means rationing consumption for more investment.

Investment will have to go to war material. So capital control will need to be in place. Import controls, quotas to ensure that inputs like steel are going to war material. The financial world without lease. Those are the preparations the Treasury should be making. We could not foresee the financial crisis. We could not foresee the pandemic, but we can foresee a greater war in Europe. These are the times in which we live. John Maynard Keynes in the darkest days of our struggle against fascism.

He wrote the reluctance to face the full magnitude of our task and overcome it is a cowards part, but the nation asks only what is necessary. The British people are nation that remembers its finest hour. But where are we in this house. Are we preparing for the worst so we can prevent it? Are we showing that we will convert our far greater resources to protect Europe and ourselves? And are we ready to do what we must? That is the

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question before us. Thank you. Before I call the next speaker, I

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Before I call the next speaker, I am wanting to get everybody in so I am taking it down to an immediate
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Chris Coghlan Portrait Chris Coghlan MP (Dorking and Horley, Liberal Democrat)
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am taking it down to an immediate four-minute time limit and it might

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go lower. I would like to thank the other honourable members who are on the honourable members who are on the visit to Ukraine for their powerful speeches. I share their motions speeches. I share their motions about the visit. Last Saturday was particularly emotional for me because I visited a recovery centre because I visited a recovery centre in Ukraine for wounded soldiers. I met a soldier, Vladimir who had lost met a soldier, Vladimir who had lost both his legs in a drain strike on his vehicle.

His comrades had tried to rescue him for times but each time they returned back by drone attacks. His tourniquets held and after nine hours, they eventually got him out. But his spirit was unbroken. Hearing his story and seeing his courage was inspiring. Wien Parliament and the British armed forces have enormous respect for everything that the Armed Forces have achieved. Ukrainians continue to pay an enormous sacrifice yet every Ukrainian I met told me that they do not want tramps proposed ceasefire.

They want to fight on because they are fighting to win. Their choice to fight and the choice Their choice to fight and the choice to support the fight is not warmongering to save lives because Putin breaks ceasefires. He will regroup, attack again and kill even more. The only acceptable terms are terms where Ukraine is victorious. Russia is vulnerable now. The last six months, they have failed to retake their own territory. They have lost over 200,000 casualties just 50 km in eastern Ukraine.

Largely because Ukraine is out producing them with drones. 4000 casualties per kilometre. Ukraine has a clear path to victory. NATO GDP alone is 10 times the size of Russia but we are not converting that economic strength into military power. Russia is still spending $40 billion annually on the war in Ukraine. If we could close and exceed that gap today by seizing a $300 billion in frozen Russian assets, then Ukraine will win. Tramps proposed ceasefire would free up 750,000 battle hardened Russian troops who crashed into the Baltic states and achieve Putin's dream of restoring the Soviet Union.

It is far better to defeat Russia and Ukraine than end up directly at war. And we cannot trust Trump to defend Ukraine and we cannot trust him to defend us, so we must rearm. With article 5 in doubt, the smaller democracies including the UK and Ukraine must consider a new Western alliance that is strong enough to defend ourselves together. It was particularly moving to see Vladimir because his sacrifice is also on our behalf.

Many Ukrainians reminded me that they were comparing their sacrifice to our sacrifice in 1940. It was our country's responsibility to defend democracy during our darkest hour. We would do well to remember that legacy now as we continue not just the fate of Ukraine but the fate of the free world.

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May I say it is a pleasure to take part in such a well-informed take part in such a well-informed and passionate debate in the chamber
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Melanie Ward Portrait Melanie Ward MP (Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, Labour)
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today? I'm three years on from the illegal invasion of Ukraine, the courage of Ukrainian people as inspiration for all of us. I was there at the security conference which felt like the world changed around us. And there were significant consequences that flow from that. It is clear that any settlement negotiated solely between Trump and Putin would not be a dignified and secure peace for Ukraine. As democratically elected President Zelenskyy has said no peace in Ukraine without Ukraine I no peace in Europe without Europe.

European leaders including our PM and our parliament rightfully stand in full solidarity with him, with a war machine in full swing, we know that Russia would not stop with Ukraine given the opportunity, and we must be clear that this is about security for the UK as well and our PM is doing vital work in Washington DC today with that in mind. The dramatic divergences of US and European approaches really matters and we have to be clear about how many other countries now have an interest in Ukraine as well.

12,000 North Korean troops on the frontline, Iranian drones being used, technology provided by China. We are not just up against Russia and Ukraine. This is about a group of states who are seeking to disrupt an already fractured global order, and so securing a just and lasting peace in Ukraine has become the defining test of who our allies are in the world and how far we are willing to go to defend the values of freedom, democracy, and sovereignty that unite us.

The last three years have seen 2236 attacks on healthcare facilities in Ukraine, the most ever recorded by the WHO in a conflict. These have increased in the last year and now occur on an almost daily basis.

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Does my friend agree with me that when this conflict ends, one of the things we must generate is the use things we must generate is the use of chemical weapons by Putin during this conflict as he is previously this conflict as he is previously used in Syria and other complex and some of us on this trip have been discussed today, also saw first-hand

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in hospitals. I agree, and accountability is

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I agree, and accountability is essential. I was about to say that Putin tested the tactic of attacking hospitals in his operations in Syria hospitals in his operations in Syria and the world stood by, and the message about impunity spread and we subsequently saw the same tactics used in other forces in Gaza and in Sudan, and of course, now by Putin in Ukraine. Children should never be targeted in war, and the ICC has an arrest warrant out for Putin's deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia.

But the stability and prosperity that we have enjoyed in our part of the world for the last 80 years cannot be taken for granted. It was fought for literally. Democracy doesn't just happen. You have to want it, value it, work to keep it, and protect it, and we have much work to do in this regard. In my previous work in war zones around the world, I often returned home with the sense that conflict and disaster can happen anywhere. That is why we need to support our global institutions now more than ever.

Institutions like the United Nations framework of the United Nations framework of international law put in place after World War II. If we value these achievements, we must uphold and protect them. Our government is absolutely right to increase spending and to do so rapidly. I have seen too many times as a former aide worker what happens when countries fail in their most basic duty to keep our country safe. Of course, funding this through the aid budget is painful and I say to those in the community that I and others Given the scale of external threats we should all know that further painful decisions are different kinds may come in the future.

I want to end by paying tribute to the Ukrainian refugees who I have met in my constituency a few weeks ago. We own it to those refugees and to all who have fought for Ukraine, the UK, and Europe's freedom, to do whatever it takes now to defend our shared

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freedom and security. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I would like to start by thanking the right honourable Member for Chingford and Woodford Green for Chingford and Woodford Green for securing this debate. I don't know about the image I will have forever of him making pizzas in the snow. I rise today in support of the people rise today in support of the people of Ukraine. They have seen their nation invaded and devastated by bombing, children kidnapped, and bombing, children kidnapped, and mothers and sisters raped, and many of their homes, hospitals, and schools destroyed.

In Leicester, like the rest of this country, we
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Shockat Adam Portrait Shockat Adam MP (Leicester South, Independent)
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have a tradition of standing up to the bullet and the underdog. During the bullet and the underdog. During World War II, RAF Leicester, now Leicester airport, was home to the US 82nd Airborne division. They US 82nd Airborne division. They played a major role in D-Day and liberation of Europe from the Nazis. Britain has shown its compassion Britain has shown its compassion since Russia invaded Ukraine three years ago, perfectly articulated by the right honourable Member for Gosport. The British people have stood firmly, resolutely beside the Ukrainian people.

I think one of the reasons for this is our nation's tradition of standing up for the underdog. Russia invaded Ukraine in the belief that Ukraine was weak and vulnerable. They would roll over and play dead whilst Putin took their land, identity, and resources. What they actually discovered was that Ukraine is an underdog that bites back. And the British people have wholeheartedly identified with the underdog spirit. They have won our hearts and one our loyalty. The determination to fight on, to protect their homes, their families, and their culture, has been really painful to watch.

But any nation that can so effectively fight Putin's military might deserves unwavering support and the support of our supposed enemies. What may be harder to watch in the coming years is that the New World Order is being is that the New World Order is being established. Is the UK and other countries having to taste its own medicine of what many other smaller countries have experienced for generations? That is, a New World Order with the largest powers deciding to redraw the map, or steel minerals or natural resources at the stroke of a pen while facing menacing threats or much worse if they don't comply? A New World Order where those who pardon insurrectionists, who try to overturn a democratic election result, who to this day do not accept the results of the US 2020 election had the cheek to lecture long-standing European countries on the imperfect nature of their democracies.

We must as a country stand against this new gangster will dominated by a few people in ivory or gold towers who trade the worst of human nature between themselves like property on a Monopoly board. That is why despite Ukraine's troubled past their fight is our fight and we must work European partners to make sure they win regardless of the threats from Washington, Moscow, John Yang, or even Beijing. Who would have thought that those brave soldiers of the Airborne division stationed in Leicester, their future president will align themselves, align himself with today's equivalent of fascists rather than the nations and people fought to defeat that particular evil.

When Ukraine wins, the New World Order that the few gangster Bros are trying to establish will fail. That is why Europe is so important and the democracies have

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to stand up and ensure they win. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Can I also thank the member for Chingford and Woodford Green.
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Jas Athwal Portrait Jas Athwal MP (Ilford South, Labour)
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Chingford and Woodford Green. Securing this debate. He spoke powerfully, passionately, and with knowledge. Imperialism is violent and tragic. Dividing communities, separating families, and leading to untold death and destruction. This has been the grim reality for the Ukrainian people for the last three years. I witnessed this first hand back in March 2022 when I travelled to that Ukrainian border with Romania. To personally deliver the central item generously donated by the people. The haunting scenes of women and children walking across the border into Romania with nothing but the clothes on their back at 4 AM in the morning, with the temperature south of -10 .

I saw that whilst Putin's aggression has tried to shatter communities and so division, the Ukrainian people have remained united, and have shown incredible resilience, strength, and perseverance. Like many of my constituents in Ilford South, I was born in India. My parents lived most of their lives in India in what is now Pakistan. My family, my neighbours, the people of Ilford South understand well the consequences of imperialism. The scars left by wars of aggression, denial of self-determination, which is why, when the invasion began, thousands of local people in Ilford stood with Ukraine and donated so much that we had to hire vans and appeal for additional drivers to get the donations to the border.

This week, the sombre anniversary as a reminder of the suffering in Ukraine. The tragedy of imperialism. And the necessity of taking a stand, of doing what is right and confronting aggression head on. On Monday, the Foreign Secretary announced the largest sanctions package against Russia since 2022. On Tuesday, Prime Minister announced an unprecedented increase in defence spending. The biggest sustained increase since the end of the Cold War. We know the evils of imperialism. We have learnt from history that appeasing aggressors does not work.

We will not stand by and allow the continued assault on a democratic nation. This house must remain united in its support for right over wrong. We will always

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stand with Ukraine. Thank you. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. It is intolerable that the violence It is intolerable that the violence and bloodshed of Putin's illegal invasion, the waking nightmare of
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Josh Dean Portrait Josh Dean MP (Hertford and Stortford, Labour)
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invasion, the waking nightmare of Russian aggression brought upon the Ukrainian people has gone on for three ghastly years. At the weekend, I joined local residents including the Ukrainian families who found a safe haven in our community, at a service of remembrance in Bishop's Stortford organised by the Bishop's Stortford Ukrainian guests support group. It was impossible not to be deeply moved as we stood for a minute's silence to remember all those who have lost their lives and suffered throughout this war, united in our shared hope that we will not have to meet again to mark the fourth year of violence in 2026.

I want to pay tribute to all those who have shown their support in my constituency for Ukrainian families and those who have gathered in recent days to pay tribute to Ukrainian people including in Bishop's Stortford and Sawbridgeworth. It is a powerful reminder that in my constituency as across the country, we stand firmly with the Ukrainian people in their time of need. The Ukrainian people stand resolutely against Russian aggression and brutality. Our support for them must be unwavering. Now is the time to redouble our support for Ukraine.

Successive British governments have led on this, the defining moral issue of our time. And our solidarity with Ukraine which is political divides in this house. It is right that the Prime Minister now leads the international call for Ukrainian sovereignty, a long-term secure future for its people and a meaningful seat at the table in any future negotiation. Nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. I welcome the landmark 100 year partnership with Ukraine to deepen security ties and build an enduring partnership for future generations, and the action this government is taking to step up and speed up our support for Ukraine at this critical moment.

In a world more insecure, more unstable than at any time in recent decades, it is right that we do more to strengthen our security at home. It is right the Prime Minister has announced an increase in defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by April 2027. I recognise that this decision comes with difficult but necessary sacrifices. I hope that in the coming years this government will chart a course restoring spending on international aid as soon as fiscal circumstances allow alongside increased defence spending.

But this government's first priority must be to safeguard the British people at home, in the face of what is a once in a generation moment for the world. And I warmly welcome the Prime Minister's announcement this week. In closing, I wish to put on record my admiration for the spirit and bravery of the Ukrainian people who have endured so much, who will no doubt endure more, not just since 2022 over the course of many years of unacceptable Russian aggression. And for those Ukrainian families who have found safety in our community, I hope for a future where they are free to choose to return to rebuild their homes in a peaceful secure Ukraine or wish to remain in my constituency where they will always, always be welcome.



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Can I commend and thank the honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green for setting the scene Woodford Green for setting the scene so very well and for his passion for the subject. In all the years I have known him in this chamber, and he has been here much longer than me, and I thank him for it. I don't much like bullies and clearly Putin is a
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Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)
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like bullies and clearly Putin is a bully. And Putin seems prepared to make changes in the rules are changing. Of course this is to be welcomed but I have a real and abiding concern that memories will be delivered in short. I have a concern that as we try for peace we will minimise the atrocities that the people of Ukraine have suffered in the space of these three years. This cannot be allowed to happen. My This cannot be allowed to happen.

My mind is drawn to a butcher, we must understand what we are dealing with. And there is a reason out support for Ukraine is as strong as it was during the first few days of the war. Human Rights Watch have been watching from April 4 to the 10th, and found extensive evidence of summary executions, killings, and torture, all of which would constitute war crimes and potential crimes against humanity. Those who sanction this behaviour are those who we deal with now.

I believe this must remain in our minds. We need accountability that those who commit atrocities will be responsible for their brutality. Children as young as eight and women as old as 80 raped and abused. Crimes by Russia against Timothy must be taken to the international court and those responsible made accountable, and if the death penalty was still here, I would think that for them. In Northern Ireland we have dealt with evil for many years, and we saw mothers and children blown to pieces by Irish Republican terrorists and no cause can justify this.

We saw the face of evil. People were burnt alive, as they were at a restaurant in my constituency. And we saw the face of evil when people in churches were massacred. All of this reminds me very much of the atrocities that the people of Ukraine have suffered as we look back at those last three years. I lived through those things in my lifetime and they remain with me and it grieves me that this face of evil is still at work and the distrust for human life, and for women and children has been replicated in Ukraine.

And in February body of the Ukrainian Orthodox priest was found in the streets of Russian occupied Curzon. And he had been tortured to death. I say as we hear of these kinds of evil deeds being repeated three Ukraine, my intention is not to drag Ukraine, my intention is not to drag up this, because I believe pieces needed. As we work for peace we cannot allow the trauma of this war to fade. These traumas matter and the families do not deserve to be forgotten.

As we approach the third anniversary of this dreadful war, my thoughts are as they ever were, and we stand with Ukraine and we must fulfil our moral duty to them in war, or in peace, and must be no stopping the hand of friendship of Great Britain and Northern Ireland remains firmly extended to those

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A pile of dark brown mud next to

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A pile of dark brown mud next to a hole in the ground, a hole framed by planks of wood covered tightly in
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Graeme Downie Portrait Graeme Downie MP (Dunfermline and Dollar, Labour)
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by planks of wood covered tightly in smooth black sheeting. For rough wooden handles jammed in as the mad hardens around them with invisible silver shovels buried beneath. A pile of mud and four shovels in the harsh cold. That is the image I had in my mind for every waking minute of every day since Saturday morning. It is the picture of a new dug grave as mentioned by my honourable . . It . It may .

It may seem . It may seem like . It may seem like an . It may seem like an unusual . It may seem like an unusual thing to say, this gravesite was not one of sorrow not just of pride, nor just of memory. It was one of defiance, one of resolve, and that image encapsulates all of the people of Ukraine. They have taken the punishment dished out a criminal dictator bully for three years. They have not only withstood the daily bombardments. They have thrived underneath their defence.

Any decision where every day represents a struggle, Ukraine has not only been able to withstand future. Cybersecurity, innovation and culture, Ukrainian people are shaping their long-term future as they shelter every night. This is keep calm, when the present and build the future. Ukrainian people want peace. Of course they do. They will not accept peace at any price. We asked over and over again what message do you want to deliver back to our parliament, and the answer was always this, something so simple and so obvious it is hard to believe it has to be restated.

Russia has conducted an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Russia is the aggression. Ukraine is the victim. We have had 20 years of warnings from the murder of Alexander in 2006 the first invasions of Ukraine and the public poisonings in Salisbury, and finally, the full-scale invasion of

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our ally. I think my honourable friend for

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I think my honourable friend for giving way and I wonder if he agrees with me that it is exactly because with me that it is exactly because of Putin and Russia's past Avia and signing up to agreements and then not doing so with security not doing so with security guarantees for Ukraine the future so important.

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I couldn't agree with her more.

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I couldn't agree with her more. As practising on a live fire range, that is something that has always been present since I have been very young, and we must and misunderstand. This will be the defining issue for this generation and for this Parliament. It is incumbent on us to do whatever it takes to people safe at home and abroad and support our allies, and that is why I fully welcome and endorsed the decision by the Prime Minister this week around defence spending increases.

As I argued in this house, 2.5 % should be seen as a floor for defence spending, not the ceiling. This government has taken one difficult position and there may more in the future. I suspect before long the government may conclude that it must go even further or even faster or both, and if they do so, they will have my total support. We have to accept the responsibility of the world we live in, not the world as we would wish it to be.

While the public clearly supports the increased spending on defence, it is incumbent that all of us on this house understands the threat of this country and what this might mean for tougher decisions in the future. A war in Ukraine might feel abstract, but as I saw, that war can come very quickly to these shores in varieties of different ways. The mission of all sides of this house is to maintain unity and communicate that reality and bring the public with us on a long-term journey that will be difficult.

With a hundred-year partnership, we have the foundation of a long-term relationship with a country with whom we share so much and with whom we are standing shoulder to shoulder, and on that foundation, we can build a lasting peace. I want to end with a quote by JFK. The same speech that we called for peace for all time, there is no single key to peace, no granddaughter magic formula. Peace must be the product of many acts. Ukraine has taken several of those many acts and the Ukraine is one of many nations.

It

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is incumbent on us to seek peace. Ukraine is a country that never

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Ukraine is a country that never sought war. As we speak today in this house, people who were once administrators, chefs, mechanics, are sacrificing their lives on the front lines to protect their homes front lines to protect their homes and families and I just want to say and families and I just want to say what a privilege it has been to be in this chamber today to hear some of the speeches from honourable members who have been in Ukraine and have told their stories so powerfully.

Thank you for doing that. The people of Ukraine have, over the last three years, defied the odds at every turn and have a president unmatched in his bravery.
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Andrew Lewin Portrait Andrew Lewin MP (Welwyn Hatfield, Labour)
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President Zelenskyy looked down a smart phone in February 2022, stared down Putin's war machine and pledged down Putin's war machine and pledged to defend the right of his sovereign country to exist and the right of his people to be free and he has his people to be free and he has done so ever since. Successive prime ministers have stood at that despatch boxes and been absolutely right to offer British military and financial aid. The fight to protect financial aid. The fight to protect Ukraine is a fight for democracy and for our shared values.

And three for our shared values. And three years, this course means we have reached a crossroads. A moment in time that will shape the future of Ukraine and Europe. On 14 February, the vice president of the US made his keynote speech at the conference. He said the threat that I worry about the most vis--vis Europe is not Russia. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values. It was a very sad and serious spectacle.

US vice president seeming to downplay the significance of Putin's aggression in Europe. Aggression which we have heard today led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and million more driven from their homes. If his primary concern really is freedom of speech and expression, he would do well to look closer to home. Just this week, journalists from having to post and Reuters were denied access to the first cabinet meeting of the administration. What I worry about is an agenda that claims to champion free speech but is actually seeking to promote favourable speech.

Those are two very different concepts. The words of the vice president served as confirmation that a period of US history is ending. The Republican Party of Eisenhower and Reagan is sleeping. It may well wait in time, but for now, it lies dormant. So, in Paris, Berlin, Kiev, and here in London, we have to respond the world as it now is. A peace deal fully supported by the US and Ukraine and Europe must of course remain the centre objective and our prime minister is absolute right to pursue it.

As the right honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green told the house, a deal cannot just mean the absence of war. Peace is what the people of Ukraine deserve but we must never countenance the settlement that is not agreed to by President Zelenskyy. Returning to Munich, there was one sentence in the speech of vice president that I could endorse. He said to believe in democracy is to understand that each of our citizens has wisdom and has a voice. On that he is right.

Our citizens do have wisdom. In the UK, they have the wisdom to look to the history of our continent, to see the danger of failing to stand up to aggressors until it is too late. Now is the time to make our voices heard, to say loudly and in unison

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that we stand with Ukraine. I thank the honourable member for

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I thank the honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green for his Chingford and Woodford Green for his bravery of going, and I admire the work for advocacy he has been doing. In the time we have left, I want to associate myself with everything that people have said. Especially that people have said. Especially with the bravery of the people of Ukraine, the men and women who are every day standing up to Putin and
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David Taylor Portrait David Taylor MP (Hemel Hempstead, Labour)
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every day standing up to Putin and fighting for freedom. I have just come back from a week in Ukraine where we had an opportunity to speak to a number of MPs and ministers, industry leaders and civil society, and I want to focus my remarks on the need for drone technology because I think that is absolutely paramount to us winning in Ukraine. Many people have spoken about this. It really is an existential crisis that we are facing here, and that is why we have to increase to 3% and beyond which is vital.

It is clear from that tip that Ukraine, Putin is not going to stop at the borders. If Ukraine falls, the NATO countries are in the firing line. That is why it is so important to understand that this is not a war about other people. It is a war about us as well. As I said, I just want to focus on the point about drone technology because in a meeting with Deputy defence ministers, I was told that Ukraine need fleets of drains that possess the same characteristics as a Kalashnikov.

What he meant by that and what was reflected back to me by the head of the Economic Affairs Committee, what he meant was something like a Kalashnikov, flying Kalashnikov is the standard issue, has an ease of manufacture, is reliant on common parts, and is comparatively cheap. Now, that isn't going to match the X essential crisis we all face, but I do think it could play a vital role in this war, but in order to get that, the drain sector needs to be able to access UK capital and we do need more joint-venture is between our defence companies in the UK and Ukrainian defence companies as well.

I just want to underline why these trains are so important because there are many different types of drains now, and there are the massive ones being supplied to Putin's forces, and when I was in Ukraine, I was spending time in a bunker because there were 50 drains overhead, but I want to talk about some of the drains that are necessary for positions to help them advance because in the words of security advisers and experts who I had the opportunity to meet when I was out there, small recon drones are the difference between an entire platoon of Ukrainian troops surviving or not.

They can help them know that the Russians are coming on the horizon and get out of there in good point, and of course, the con versus true. It could also help them hold positions and advance as well, so I do think that it is absolutely important that we get to a place where we are able to provide more capital to Ukrainian companies, that we can help them with the parts they need, and collectively, European allies as well are able to help them produce standard and cheaper types of drain because I think they will be vital in this war.

Thank you.

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Can I thank the honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green and others for securing this debate which I was proud to be a co- which I was proud to be a co- sponsor. So many excellent and learning points have been made, and I think we can be proud of the I think we can be proud of the debate today. Three years today, peace was broken. The world woke up peace was broken. The world woke up to full-scale war in our backyard. Russian tanks rolling into Europe Russian tanks rolling into Europe across Ukraine's borders.

Missiles lighting up the sky, the fire of war lighting up the sky, the fire of war ripping through homes, complete and outer destruction of harmony and innocence. People grabbing whatever they could. And fleeing for their lives. Russian forces have brutally
14:45
Oliver Ryan Portrait Oliver Ryan MP (Burnley, Independent)
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invaded their sovereign neighbour. Putin the dictator thought this Putin the dictator thought this would be over in weeks, because of the tenacity, bravery, the leadership of Ukraine and Zelenskyy leadership of Ukraine and Zelenskyy three years on, here we are. Today, Ukraine is still fighting, not just for its land but for its survival. for its land but for its survival. It has been said before that if Russia stop, this war is over. If Ukraine stops, they lose everything. And so today, before anything else, And so today, before anything else, we pause to honour those who have paid the highest price, the parents are buried their children, the soldiers have kissed their loved ones goodbye not knowing if they would ever return, the civilians who once loved and peaceful villages now reduced to rubble.

Millions have been displaced, hundreds of thousands have been killed, schools, hospitals have been destroyed, targeted ballistic missile strikes People have ensured torture, sexual violence, have their children snatched and sent to Russia. And horrors and atrocities we here in Britain that we struggle to imagine let alone put into words. Despite all this, the flame of hope for a free nation, Ukraine, stands. Not just stands, fights, and refuses to surrender. Refuses to be a footnote in the history of this brutal expansionism of that barbaric mad expansionism of that barbaric mad tyrant in Moscow.

We all like to think that in that scenario we would do the same. That we kiss our loved ones goodbye and fight for our country. Our families, and our way of life. Ukrainians have been doing that now for three years, through smoke and rubble and fire and attack after attack after attack. They have stood up and said to Putin, not us, not Ukraine. It is in honour of that bravery, that spirit, that flame of hope that we must proclaim to not an inch of Ukraine is Russia entitled.

Not a metre of Ukraine belongs to Russia. Not a mile of Ukraine is Russia's sphere of influence by divine right. That soil, those people, those children are Ukrainian, and we stand with them today and every day for democracy, freedom, sovereignty, decency, for the world that we want to believe in. No surrender, no appeasement, no deals without Ukraine at the table. We will stand with Ukraine as long

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as it takes. Slava Ukraini. I would like to thank all members

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I would like to thank all members of the Backbench Business Committee and the right honourable Member for Chingford and Woodford Green for Chingford and Woodford Green for granting this debate. Three years ago we watched as missiles rained down on Ukraine from Kharkiv, down on Ukraine from Kharkiv, damaging even the Holocaust Memorial. I think anyone who has Memorial. I think anyone who has stood in that space will share the sense of revulsion at that sense of revulsion at that desecration.

And a motorised column of 40 miles in length advanced on Kyiv. It was a terrible example of unrestricted industrial warfare in
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Laurence Turner Portrait Laurence Turner MP (Birmingham Northfield, Labour)
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Europe and the first time since 1945. And Russia seeks the 1945. And Russia seeks the destruction of Ukrainian sovereignty and the proof of that assertion can be found in the bodies that were be found in the bodies that were laid out in the different Ukrainian laid out in the different Ukrainian cities, and in many places not known cities, and in many places not known to us were only liberation can identify. When we think back to February 2022 we must remember also February 2022 we must remember also the hope that quickly can be found among despair.

A small Ukrainian force defeated the Russians at the airport and on such a fine margin, the nation may have been saved. The action of successive UK governments and the unity of this house has, as many of us have said, been essential to that Ukrainian struggle for liberty. Out of war has come new bonds of family and friendship and I would like to pay tribute to the members of the British Armed Forces who have trained Ukrainians and also to the Defence Force at Birmingham who have learned from us.

And we have learned from them. And all those who have acted as hosts and be part of a wider support network for Ukrainian refugees. One of the most valuable things we can do in this place is to repeat Ukrainian voices. I should like to quote one, the chair of the Federation of trade unions of Ukraine. It was my pleasure to come to know her over the last couple of years. She said this ahead of the TUC some 18 months ago.

" Of course we want peace more than anything. But we want a just peace, without occupiers in our country. " And as the Head of the Centre for Civil Liberties said in Ukraine, " Peace cannot be given by country under attack, that would not be peace but occupation. " The message so eloquently articulated by Ukrainians who know the regime. And I hope it is heard by those making decisions for Ukraine's future. I do not have time to go into detail but I'd like to say that the issues identified with regards to the Ukrainian mission extension scheme have been in my constituency as well I hope ministers are monitoring those concerns.

I would like to close by echoing one last Ukrainian voice which is that of someone who wrote a poem almost 200 years ago also under Russian occupation. " Bury me then rise you up and break the chains. Timeless blood for freedom you have gained. In that family of the free, of softly spoken kindly words, remember also. " If one messages to go from this house today, I hope it is this. The cause is constant not passing.

We remember Ukraine and we will stand with Ukraine and I Ukrainian friends until the end, until the very end, and as hard as the path... Forgive me, as hard as it now may be to

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imagine, look forward to a day when Ukraine will be free. In the short period of time I

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In the short period of time I have left I will say this, we face a critical moment for our nation, Europe, and the world. Now is the Europe, and the world. Now is the time to uphold our values and
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John Slinger Portrait John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
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encourage allies to do the same. We need concrete steps to protect and defend Ukraine as well as lasting agreements to ensure their security into the future. While it feels like an dark phase to European security, it is not the first time that we believe in cooperation and the importance of alliances and have had to argue for those who favour a different approach. We have won the argument before including with our American friends and we must appeal to the noblest instincts of the great nation.

We are now at a hinge in history. Perhaps the most dangerous one since the Cold War. What is at stake is not just the erasure of a nation at the weakening of the international rules-based system. In the transatlantic military alliance which has, in combination, underpinned European security since World War II. Even the concept of truth is being challenged, but I won't rehearse those points even though we must defend it. We must not allow great powers to trade Ukraine's future like a pawn in a game of chess.

Because what is at principle is the idea that police must not prosper in our world. If they do, other nations will be next. The former just prior minister whose bust sits in the Oval Office talked about feeding the crocodile and they will eat you last. So I strongly support what the Prime Minister has said and committing to increased defence spending and keeping troops on the ground. We must defend the rights of any country to defend itself against invasion by its neighbour.

Ukraine is not just any country, it is a beacon for those who value freedom. In their bravery and sacrifice, they are upholding the concept of their own but of every nation is secure sovereignty. They are defending the international rules-based system. International law, freedom, democracy, human rights, and yes, they are defending us. We must remind our friends around the world that intelligent self interest and upholding moral values are synonymous. If we do this, Ukraine will live on, rules-based system will live on, and a world in which values and defends freedom and democracy against those who threaten

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them will live on. I called the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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spokesperson. Whilst I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate today it is one that we all hoped we would never one that we all hoped we would never have to have. I thank the member for have to have. I thank the member for Chingford and Woodford Green for the debate. Over three years the brave people of Ukraine have heroically
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Helen Maguire Portrait Helen Maguire MP (Epsom and Ewell, Liberal Democrat)
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people of Ukraine have heroically defended their country gets the full scale invasion. Defying Putin's expectations and showing the world that courage, resilience, and unwavering determination. They have reminded us all of what is at stake. The right of a sovereign nation to choose its own destiny, free from coercion and tyranny. Today we are at a pivotal moment. Without prior minister in the US. This is a moment that will determine the future of our continent for generations to come. Now more than ever we must stand firmly in support of a Ukrainian friends, resisting trumps dangerous flirtation with the deal towards Russian aggression and work with European allies to defend freedom and democracy.

Europe must act decisively and that starts with working without European allies to unleash the Russian assets currently sitting idly in banks. To give Ukraine a critical boost at this critical moment. UN General Assembly has recognised Russia's obligation to make reparations to this illegal war. Yet history shows us that Russia will never voluntarily pay for these reparations. By redirecting these funds to Ukraine, we are not undermining the rule of law but upholding it. Some fear that seizing these assets sets a dangerous precedent.

I argue the opposite. It sets a necessary precedent. It tells the world that the international committee will act decisively against those who wage decisively against those who wage unprovoked wars of aggression. It is only right that these assets are repurposed for military aid, humanitarian support, and rebuilding efforts. Any negotiations about Ukraine security must evolve Ukraine itself. This war is about their sovereignty. Its fate cannot be decided in backroom deals between Washington and Moscow. I cautiously welcomed reports of the White House engaging respectfully with Kyiv.

But this commitment must extend beyond words, and nothing must be agreed that Ukraine at the table. Anything less will be an insult and a betrayal of the values we claim to uphold. Supporting Ukraine means more than military aid alone. It requires long-term investment in defence, manufacturing, joint procurement with Ukrainian companies. The recognition that Ukraine's innovation and defence technology and robotics AI is important globally. The UK should actively support and invest in these sectors while helping to strengthen Ukraine's economy was also bolstering our own security and technological abilities.

We must also stand with Ukrainian veterans and refugees. More than 250,000 Ukrainians now call the UK home. Any of those arrived in 2022 will soon need to apply for visa extensions under the extension scheme. While this grants an 18 month extension it provides no certainty for their future. We must ensure that Ukrainians in the UK have clarity about the right to remain while understanding that many of them will return to the country once the war is over. If the US retreat from its role in global security, Europe must step up.

And Britain should leave. The government's pledge to raise defence spending to 2.5% of GDP is welcome, we hope this will mean reversal of the Conservative party shortsighted troop cuts but we must go further. Given the increasingly volatile landscape, UK needs to plan to increase defence spending further again. Now is not the time to play politics. The government should recognise and host cross-party talks about getting to 3% as soon as possible. At a time when Ukraine's economy is contracted by almost 30% and its reconstruction is estimated at nearly $500 billion, it is incontrovertible that the UK has chosen to cut its international aid budget to fund the increased defence.

Slashing funding for global element while increasing defence spending is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. UK soft power is a vital tool in this fight. And we must restore our aid budget to 0.7% of Gross National Income. Ensuring our support for Ukraine is not at the cost of abandoning other vulnerable nations. Defence after all is based on defence, diplomacy, and development. The Liberal Democrats have set out how to increase defence spending, how it can be fairly funded by increasing taxes on social media firms and other tech giants.

The government has chosen to finance it by cutting the international aid budget. This is a dangerous mistake. Weakening the U.K.'s global influence will only play into the hands of Russia and China. We must also lead discussions in the creation of the European rearmament bank, and by the UK and other allies. It would allow us to collect an increase defence spending further and faster and raise additional private capital. This model would mean a more stable long-term financial system enabling the defence industry to innovate and increase production capacity.

The question is not whether we act but what happens if we do not. Failing to stand with Ukraine will embolden put in, undermine NATO interest in European security. Three years into the war the stakes could not be higher. We must take bold action to stand up for democracy, for allies in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and

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frown security. Thank you. I call the Shadow Minister. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. It is an you Madame Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to have the opportunity to mark the grim milestone that is the third anniversary of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine. I'm grateful to the backbench business committee for calling this debate and pay tribute to all the billion speeches on both sides the house referred to, sides the house referred to, particularly the member for Chingford and Woodford Green. Above all, I pay tribute to the people of all, I pay tribute to the people of Ukraine.

Without any provocation whatsoever, Ukraine has suffered whatsoever, Ukraine has suffered vast casualties and a national trauma beyond our wildest imaginings. All. It by an aggressive dictator and a bully. If we ask ourselves the question of why this war has happened, surely Lord Acton had the explanation 1887, power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. There is a reason that Putin was able to murder on our streets, threatened nuclear war, harass and maritime and air space, and invade free nations.

Do away with his political opponents and care not a jot for the cattle to rate of his own forces of over 1000
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James Cartlidge Portrait James Cartlidge MP (South Suffolk, Conservative)
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each day. That is because he is not constrained by the checks and balances of a democracy to hold on to account. He has absolute power to account. He has absolute power and has used it destructively regardless of the impact on his own people let alone on the people of people let alone on the people of Ukraine. And so Putin's motive is one we have seen from despots down one we have seen from despots down the centuries. Power lust and hunger for conquest. Externalising his for conquest.

Externalising his nation's problems which the corrupt oligarchy can never satisfy. But oligarchy can never satisfy. But ultimately leading to internal economic hardship and pain for all We have an early capitulation which would have been truly disastrous for Ukraine and the free world, and as the opposition, we continue to stand resolutely with Ukraine, supporting the Labour government as they did with us to the July election, and so we wish the prime minister every success in Washington and hope for a lasting peace where Ukraine can finally enjoy the security it deserves.

But for all the talk of peace, for all our efforts today providing everything from tanks, to Storm Shadow missiles and despite the incredible bravery of the Armed Forces and defying the odds to push back land and naval forces, day-to- day reality in Ukraine is one of continued bombing and pain and suffering for its people. So a key question for us in this debate is what action this day can we undertake to support the ongoing fight? I will turn to the subject raised by the gentleman from Hemel Hempstead who raised the issue of drains and rearmament because there is one aspect to the rearmament potential which I believe speaks to our own need to rearm and the fact that Ukraine will need a far greater scale of rearmament whether a settlement is agreed or not.

Without one, the war requires it. Without one, the need to give Ukraine security will also require a continued ramp up of military industrial production not least to deter Russia. As such, now that the government has confirmed its plan for a sustained increase in defence spending, we must urgently unlock our domestic procurement and drive both our capacity and that if Ukraine. On Monday, I had the ability to visit Modena creating one-way attack drains and other capabilities for the British Army. When I launch the MoD's first-ever drawn strategy about a year ago, the plan was to pick your drains at scale for Ukraine as we have done, and learn from that to build a domestic industry capable of arming our own military.

So it was frustrating to hear what I have heard from so many of our best defence SMEs, the procurement is largely on hold and en masse, our fantastic firms are like a coiled spring waiting for the government to press go on procurement at the scale and pace we have needed for months. So like the honourable lady, I believe that a big step forward would be for our defence companies to urgently forge new joint lines of production with Ukrainian firms in the United Kingdom, honouring the promise of pillar one of the hundred-year partnerships to establish stronger and closer defence cooperation and industrial bases.

Why is this so important? Because Ukrainian defence companies want you crave production for safety reasons awaiting the bombing, but also, by partnering with UK SMEs, this will provide access to capital and a chance to feed into Ukraine procurement. For the UK, this means access to know how expertise of those companies who have manufactured capabilities that have actually succeeded in a war as it is being fought this very day. For our Armed Forces and the MoD, it means realising the cultural change we need to see being less risk averse in procurement and rapidly developing capability to enhance the lethality and survivability of our Armed Forces in the near term which will be important should there be a peacekeeping force.

Ultimately, conventional war that is sustained for a longer period is fought in terms of factory capacity links to innovation and I don't agree with the honourable gentleman from Loughborough about capital controls. I thing there is enough capital, but he made an excellent speech about the need to boost capacity, and something I was looking at was multilateral procurement with NATO partners. Whatever its current capabilities, Europe has a vast industrial base that could scale up with the willpower to do so and leadership from governments, so I conclude that we lead at the outset of the war and with our greatest ally recently asking us and allies to do more of heavy lifting confronting the threat, we will need to lead again.

That requires leadership on industry and innovation in the Ukraine and across Europe to massively boost our defence industrial capacity and I would urge the Minister to do everything possible to accelerate partnerships with those Ukrainian businesses that have delivered on the front line and will be even stronger with British backing creating British jobs to deliver a far greater scale of production for the Armed Forces. We must continue to do every thing possible to support Ukraine.

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Thank you. I am grateful for the right honourable member for Chingford and Woodford Green for initiating this timely debate which is an honour to close and I'm grateful for all of the superb grateful for all of the superb contributions of both sides of the house. I am especially grateful for house. I am especially grateful for the advocacy and telling the story of the brutality of the Russian onslaught. I have been in a bomb shelter and has been a sobering experience.

It is one that stays with you and it must, and its
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Luke Pollard Portrait Luke Pollard MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Plymouth Sutton and Devonport, Labour )
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reminder of the daily coverage of our Ukrainian friends as they resist Putin's illegal invasion. Today, we Putin's illegal invasion. Today, we have had the opportunity to reflect on the most unhappy of anniversaries. Three years since the anniversaries. Three years since the illegal full-scale attack on illegal full-scale attack on Ukraine. Thousands of people have lost their lives. Means of people lost their lives. Means of people have seen their homes destroyed. Ukrainian children stolen by Russia. And although Russian troops continue to make small territorial gains, both nations have become deadlocked in a war of attrition, but this was a war that Putin believed he could win in three days.

Thanks to the extraordinary resistance and courage of Ukraine, Russia has been humbled on the battlefield. Three days have turned into three years and today is

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1099 days. Very quickly, the whole house will recall that when Russian tanks will recall that when Russian tanks were bearing down on Kiev, President Zelenskyy was offered a ride out for Zelenskyy was offered a ride out for his own personal safety. He famously replied I don't need a ride, I need ammunition. That is Sicilian

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ammunition. That is Sicilian heroism, isn't it? All parties in this house have rightfully praised President Zelenskyy. It is right that we continue to stand with him for as long as it takes and that is what we will come to. The resources have been worn down but over 860,000 Russian soldiers killed or wounded, we expect the grim milestone of 1 million Russian casualties to be achieved in the coming months. Nearly 4000 main battle tanks, armoured vehicles have been lost and the damage and destruction of the once formidable Black Sea fleet is testament to what a nation without NAV can now do with the right equipment and the right approach.

But let's not forget every three years the UK has often been the 1st to step up to help Ukraine. This year, we will spend 4.5 billion years on military assistance, more than ever before. To date, the UK has provided 12.8 billion of support as well as training over 51,000 Ukrainian personnel with our allies as part of operation into Flex, and we have committed £3 billion a year for as long as it takes in military support. We have continued to strengthen Ukraine in recent weeks.

Earlier this week, we announced a firepower passion for systems. On Monday, it was announced we are doubling our support to the life- saving defence medical services with a £20 million uplift in funding for project renovator. The UK has been repairing and upgrading a military rehabilitation hospital in Ukraine and providing training to Ukrainian surgeons, doctors, and nurses, and this funding will provide a major boost for this project. It will help Ukrainian soldiers recover from front-line service and help those for sovereignty.

We also hope the Home Secretary how we are turning the tables on Putin by blocking Russian elites and oligarchs from entering the UK and the Foreign Secretary announced the largest number of sanctions since the early days of conflict which aim to hit Russia's revenue and hamper bladder may Putin's military machine. Standing alongside our allies, we will do what is necessary to support Ukraine and keep Europe and Britain safe. The UK is solidifying our historic 100 year partnership with Ukraine signed by the prime minister and President Zelenskyy in Kiev in January, bolstering defence and security and more and importantly singling our confidence that in 100 years time, there will still be a free and sovereign Ukraine.

I now turn some of the important questions that have been raised in today's debate. Negotiations, while Russia is weakened, it remains a significant military threat, not just to Ukraine but to the whole of Europe and the United Kingdom as well. Ukraine is the frontline of freedom and our defence and security begins on that frontline in eastern Ukraine. That is why the decision was made on the coming weeks and months which are not only defining the conflict but also the shape of European and global security for decades to come.

Everyone wants this water and. None more so than the Ukrainian people. They need a chance to rebuild their shattered nation so continues to ensure unimaginable hardships. When the fighting stops, it must be followed by a strong stable durable lasting peace. That means a deal that safeguards Ukraine sovereignty, and enter Russian aggression, not a temporary ceasefire before Putin finds an excuse to return to violence. A lasting, durable peace because an insecure piece risk small war and the US backstop is the only to achieve a durable and lasting peace.

The government's position is clear. Negotiations about Ukraine it cannot happen without Ukraine. At the same time, it is right that the UK and Europe plays our part in securing the peace. It is our security that has been negotiated as well as Ukraine's. We have to work together with the US to create a sustained piece and protect democracy that both the US and Europe hold so dear. That is why the Prime Minister has said that a US security agreement is vital.

It is welcome that we now talk about negotiations, but as a defence minister, let me remind the house that we must not jeopardise the peace by forgetting about the war. Resident Trumper's long expressed his wish for Europe to step up and take more responsibility for its own security and he is right. We are responding to that challenge. We are stepping up. Earlier this week, the prime minister announced the rise in spending since the Cold War. We are bringing for the manifesto to bring 2.5% and GDP on defence to 2027, back to level that is not achieved since 2010 when Labour was last in government.

Ahead of its visit to Washington today, the Prime Minister also announced subject to our economic and fiscal conditions and aligned with our strategic and operational leads that we will also set a clear ambition for defence spending to rise to 3% in the next Parliament. Through strategic defence review that will be published in the spring, we are assessing the threats Britain's faces and building capabilities we need to meet them. We are also cutting waste in the military of defence, reforming procurement and reforming recruitment including addressing some of the outdated medical situations been raised in this debate was a weird prioritising investment in the industries.

As a result, the Armed Forces will once again become fit to fight a modern war, learning the lessons from Ukraine and adapting to the evolving threats we face because we know that strengthening defence is the only way to win peace by determining conflict but defeating it if necessary. We are also stepping up and encouraging all our NATO allies to be spending at least 2% on defence. Britain spending 2.5% on defence from 2027, setting a new benchmark for others to follow as well.

In Ukraine, with our Dutch and Norwegian colleagues, more Jean ventures, more tech transfers of knowledge and data sharing in both directions is what we are talking about. This week, I visited Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Denmark and the Netherlands to discuss with our allies how we step up our support for Ukraine. The UK will stand with for Ukraine. The UK will stand with for Ukraine. The UK will stand with
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Iain Duncan Smith Portrait Rt Hon Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP (Chingford and Woodford Green, Conservative)
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Madam Deputy Speaker, I should say at this point what a great idea it is that you are sitting in the chair because you came out two and half years ago to Ukraine with me and with the charity, as others have done. And you were fantastic talking to troops suffering from PTSD. They remembered it when I saw them again later. I thank you on their behalf. This has been an excellent debate. An excellent debate to send a message of unity to America, to the president of America, to tell him that this house is united in its support for Ukraine and believes if we have faith in Ukraine, then they will succeed.

And there is no peace that is not durable that is worth the word peace. He needs to make sure they have freedom and justice at the same time. As we are finishing this, one small quote from the man in 1941 was also appealing to the president of a nation of 130 million that was in isolation and was not likely to enter on our behalf, and forgive me, it is short. This is the sign we must send back to the man who has a bust of Churchill sitting in his office.

This is what he appealed to the president of America at the same time and on behalf of Ukraine are repeated. " Put your confidence in us, give us your faith and your blessing, and under providence, all will be well. We shall not fail or falter. We shall not weaken or tire. Neither the sudden shock of battle nor the long drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down. Give us the tools and we will

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finish the job. " Slava Ukraini. The question is as on the Order

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The question is as on the Order Paper. As many are of that opinion say, "Aye". And of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it. The ayes "No". The ayes have it. The ayes have it. I will take a few moments have it. I will take a few moments We We now We now come We now come to We now come to the We now come to the backbench We now come to the backbench debate on Saint Davids Day and Welsh Affairs.

Ruth Jones to move. Affairs. Ruth Jones to move.
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Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones MP (Newport West and Islwyn, Labour)
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exceptional job fostering a collegiate atmosphere to ensure we collegiate atmosphere to ensure we work together to achieve the best for Wales. Regardless of individual for Wales. Regardless of individual party affiliation. I very much hope to carry forward this consensual approach to the work of the committee. I believe this is the way committee. I believe this is the way to get the best for the people of Wales. I would also like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to the opportunity to pay tribute to the exceptional team that supports the exceptional team that supports the committee.

The full extent of the work they do but behind the scenes is appreciated by members and the committee could not function without them. And it is great to have the support of the hard-working and diligent team. I thank them all for the individual skills and abilities they bring to the committee. This committee may be newly formed but it is already off to a flying start. You probably heard evidence from the Secretary of State and the First Minister at the three inquiries, and several more ideas for the rest of this Parliament.

We have also taken evidence on several pressing issues for Wales including the impact of the budget on Wales, and the tragic loss of 17 inmates at the prison. The first inquiry is promoting Wales for inward investment. The UK ranks amongst the most successful countries in Europe for attracting foreign direct investment projects, Wales has struggled to attract the same level of inward investment as other nations and regions in the UK. So this inquiry will focus on how Wales is promoted internationally, in order to market it as a competitive destination for investment, we will consider what lessons should be learned from success stories of the creative industries and sports sectors and whether they are our international examples that can inform the Wales approach.

We will look at how the Welsh brand is articulated and marketed to international audiences, and what is done to promote Wales as a destination for inward investment and how much Welsh businesses are supported. All these factors will be vital to deliver and support local benefit and prosperity. A second inquiry is on the environmental and economic legacy of Wales's industrial past. We know Wales has a proud industrial heritage based on activities such as coal mining, and steelmaking. The industrial revolution was partially with Welsh coal, shipped out in vast quantities from the South Wales coalfield.

Merthyr Tydfil and other areas were used for iron works and the memories of the Trinity is live on in the landscape and buildings. Less than five minutes walk from my constituency office is the new constituency office is the new bridge Memo, built by miners. It is today still the centre of the community hosting the local library, a ballroom, a cinema, and a coffee shop. This is the living legacy of the miners I know many places in Wales would be poorer if they had not actively built this for their communities.

I must not forget to mention the Institute which has recently been rescued from closure, a decision applauded by all local communities. Today most of the heavy industries that helps the Welsh economy during the 19th and 20th century argon. So we will examine the environmental legacy and the economic impact of their decline. What this means for Wales as it transforms to the green and digital economies. Including of course the semiconductors and the data centres in my constituency.

We know that it continues to have a significant impact, and coal tips passed the risk of landslides. The risk is even greater due to flooding. We are acutely aware of the risks after acutely aware of the risks after heavy rain in 2020 and Storm Bird. I must acknowledge the additional £25 million provided by the UK government to ensure safety in Wales. Money that has been provided after being ignored for 14 years by the last government for top decline in heavy industry has brought economic challenges to former industrial areas that still persist today.

Coalfield regeneration said that South Wales coalfield has a very low job density and poor health and extensive deprivation. Our inquiry into the environmental and economic legacy of the Wales industrial past and look at all of these issues and the role that former industrial committees can play as part of an exciting future. Finally we have opened an inquiry into prison's probation and rehabilitation in Wales. Much of the work was started under my predecessor. When I was elected I was keen for it to continue.

Criminal justice in Wales exists within the unique policy environment where prisons and rehabilitation are reserved for the UK government and key services like health education and housing are devolved to the Welsh government. This inquiries about looking at the challenges and opportunities that are presented by this unique constitutional arrangement, examining where the UK and Welsh Government are working well together as well as identifying areas for improvement. We will consider the UK government's recent criminal justice policy initiatives, assessing the extent to which they have been tailored to meet the needs of Welsh offenders.

We will also consider the effectiveness of intergovernmental relations between the UK and Welsh Government and associated agencies and rehabilitation in Wales, as well as the vital role played by the private sector and central organisations. We will look at how suitable the Welsh prisoner status for keeping prisoners healthy and safe and ensuring they can access effective rehabilitation services and healthcare facilities. The committee undertook a visit in November as part of this work and we will continue to monitor progress at this prison as part of our inquiry.

I now turn to my own constituency of Newport West. The boundary changes at the general election last year meant I sadly lost my favourite ward in the former Newport West to my good friend. But I have been very lucky to have inherited most of another constituency. And I have to remember my predecessors and Neil Kinnock and others. They are very big boots to fill so I take the legacy very certainly. I hope I understand the people of the constituency as well as they did.

So the debate today, St David's Day is a wonderful occasion to celebrate all that is billions about Wales. Whether injuring a seaside resort or climbing a mountain. Wales is a place of extraordinary natural beauty which welcomes many hundreds of tourists every year. It is often said Wales is a land of song and if I look around the chamber I'm certain that between us and the other place we could have a proper choir going. We are very proud of our heritage in terms of culture and the creative arts including the Welsh National Opera and the many film and TV companies that are in Wales producing content for Wales and UKTV.

I want to say that I have achieved a lifelong ambition on Saturday thanks to the honourable member for Gower who introduced me to the other Ruth Jones and can I say I was completely starstruck. She was lovely. Wales is not all cuddly lambs and daffodils. It is also a country of protest. The rights that we have today enshrined in law to protect the Welsh language were hard fought for by activists who held the government of the day to account. And persisted with their campaigns, some lawful and some not, for many decades to finally achieve parity in Welsh and English.

A passion for the Welsh language is clear. Only two events in over 100 years have disrupted the National Assembly in Wales, one of these was during the COVID pandemic and another was the great war in 1914. It is also a country with a strong history of a noble cause that would go across the UK burning brightly in south Wales, in particular in my own constituency of Newport West and others. Many have fought there to achieve the democratic changes and fought for years, even losing their lives in pursuit of fair and open democracy.

It is something we need to be grateful for. The fact that an ordinary girl like me from the local branch of school could represent the people of our communities here in this extraordinary place is something that I will never take for

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granted. I could go on. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I'm grateful to you for giving way. I'm grateful to you for giving way. Many people enjoy the delights of Many people enjoy the delights of Wales from my constituency. This is Wales from my constituency. This is the first St David's Day in five years were I'm not an employee of the honourable Lady, so I wanted to congratulate her on an excellent congratulate her on an excellent speech and say on behalf of the

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speech and say on behalf of the people of Newcastle I was her their constituents are happy St David's Day. I thank the honourable member. I could go on but I don't wish to take up any more time. I want to hear from other colleagues present today and I look forward to their contributions.

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The question is as on the Order Paper. Liz Saville Roberts.

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Paper. Liz Saville Roberts. (SPEAKING IN WELSH) a happy St

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(SPEAKING IN WELSH) a happy St David's Day to you and to everyone across the house. It is lovely to see so many daffodils. It is a time see so many daffodils. It is a time of course to take pride in our culture, communities, language, each a rugged testament to our resilience a rugged testament to our resilience as a nation. We are a nation of creativity and innovation. We all creativity and innovation. We all here know that Wales has the talent, the resources, the potential to be more than brilliant.

It is time to be more ambitious. It is time to up our game. While we may not yet have a St David's Day bank holiday, it does not stop us coming together to celebrate what makes a country so special. We take this date to

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reflect on what is... Of course. I thank your woman before giving

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I thank your woman before giving way. I take the chance to wish everyone a happy St David's Day. With the honourable member support With the honourable member support With the honourable member support my cause to make the National Day of Cornwall a bank holiday which is taking place on 5 March?

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taking place on 5 March? I will say yes. Celebrating our regional saints and our national Saints with vigour and enthusiasm, Saints with vigour and enthusiasm, and making sure that people get every opportunity at the time to enjoy them. Today of course we will reflect on all that is great about Wales. We must also with that acknowledge challenges we face and more importantly, how we can overcome them. Our arts and culture, so integral to our national identity, they are at present hanging in the balance.

Our National Museum, and the National library are facing potential staff losses. A national theatre has had to shut up shop. Meanwhile the NHS in Wales, has been chronically mismanaged. 26 years over 1/4 of a century because the labour talks about lavish spending but we have record high rating lists month after month. Nearly half of cancer patients are not getting the treatment that they need on time. Our ambulance response time targets I missed time after time. In our schools are also struggling.

Results are the worst struggling. Results are the worst And they have found that Welsh schools maintenance backlog totals over half £1 billion. These buildings are literally crumbling away, with expected develop the skills for the next generation to develop the skills that we need to build our nation. They promised that a Labour Government here in the U.K.'s centre of power would turn the tide in Wales, but all we have seen is broken promises. A refuel to scrap the fuel, leading our funding arrangement misaligned with our needs, living wills shortchanged.

Not a single penny of his chest to funding while reducing the bond
15:32
Liz Saville Roberts Portrait Rt Hon Liz Saville Roberts MP (Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Plaid Cymru)
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comparability factor for Wales to adjust in third, 33.5%. Leaving us adjust in third, 33.5%. Leaving us again without that which we are owed crumbling transport infrastructure. crumbling transport infrastructure. And expansion, incredibly, of the cruel austerity agenda by removing the winter fuel allowance for thousands of pensioners, keeping the two child In place and refusing compensation for 1950s born women compensation for 1950s born women and only this week voting down the opportunity plight, report to devolve wills as crown and state assets, denying us the rewards of our own natural in Wales.

This, despite Welsh Labour still supporting the Crown and state devolution. In fact the first Minister has called it an important cause for our nation. The former council general called U.K.'s Labour rejection of evolution as a big mistake with no genuine economic or political logic. That is the Welsh Labour former council general saying that. Coupling this with the hiking national employer contributions that were hit, core public and third sector services as well as family businesses and the impact of inheritance tax changes and the monetisation stripping of agricultural funding and the future of farming in Wales.

Labour has a well and truly let us down since 2024 and now there is nowhere else to turn to blame for it. Of course we're used to calling out these failures, whether here in Westminster, or in Cardiff-based, we have proven time and again that we are never afraid to scrutinise Labour's decisions and unlike the Labour Welsh Government we are willing to demand better for Wales. We always put them first. While Labour sits and panders to right- wing extremists and Labour. Also dancing to the tune of reform who are not even here, although they expect to be dancing the tune for them in 2026, reform, shouting out their empty slogans into the void of it non-existent policies.

We are setting out our vision for a Welsh Government and a Welsh Government in 2026. Such as our initial plan for the NHS, from regional cows to executive services and health collaboration the Government will hit the ground running and unafraid to implement the changes that Wales needs to fulfil our potential. Wales needs a fresh start. And we are ready to invest in our people, in our futures, and to lead with policies that will transform lives and communities. As we approach elections the tide is indeed turning in Wales and we should no longer have to accept any more empty promises, any more measly crumbs from Westminster dressed up as big celebratory announcements.

Labour and Westminster is not prepared to give Wales what it deserves and Levante wills will not fight for it. We will always demand fairness for Wales and the record and the name speaks for itself. Let's work together, expecting a Welsh Government to build a fairer, more prosperous for Wales, where every person who lives there gets to call

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it home and gets to expect more. Caroline Harris.

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Caroline Harris.

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Caroline Harris. Thank you. A special on this year to speak as a member of Parliament within you see, having lived in within you see, having lived in Swansea East my entire life it was a real step into the unknown where the real step into the unknown where the boundary changes for metre leave hind half of my very special constituency to represent a
15:35
Carolyn Harris Portrait Carolyn Harris MP (Neath and Swansea East, Labour)
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constituency to represent a completely new and equally special constituency. And it may only be 15 minutes down the road, but that 15 minutes brings whole new communities, much more rural landscape, and diverse caseloads that differ in many respects to what I knew before and when I made my Maiden speech almost 10 years ago as an opposition MP, I spoke about my city, Swansea. The question is that portrayal of it is a lovely town, so I can only read that it is my first speech as a Government (inaudible) representing in Swansea East to talk about the new part of my constituency and the wonderful town.

It is a town steeped in history. We have the Abbey, a Cistercian Monastery dating back to 1129, and the castle, also built in the 12th century. At the heart of the town centre in Victorian gardens overlooked by formidable Saint David's Church. Named for our patron saint. Concentrated in the 1860s, the church continues to be a vocal part of the community today and it is always a great pleasure to be invited to attend events, especially my husband, Jeremy.

Just a few minutes away the traditional market that is traded in the same building since 1837. And the shops come and go over the yes, the market has been a constant and the product is, in my opinion, the best available. If you shopping list includes sausage, cheese, a dozen Welsh cakes, a bunch of daffodils, or even a bucket hat with a dragon on, Leith market is the place to go and we really do have a pass to be proud of. In addition to the beautiful historic buildings, we also boast one of the oldest fares in the UK.

Neath fairer that takes place every September can be traced back to 1280. And not even the First World War could disrupt it. In 1915, the vans were even used as a recruiting office for the war effort. And talking of showman yet another outstanding church in the town centre, St Thomas's Church, has a close affinity. Hosting a wonderful carousel horse and stained-glass window that was commissioned for the celebration. Modern day Neath is no different to anywhere else across the country, but it has a wonderful and once bustling towns sent out feeling the effects of the value of online shopping and another mini constituents would understandably be devastated when Marks & Spencer's closed nine months ago after decades of being in the town and unfortunately with very little support for the independent coalition local authority.

But we are very lucky to still have a selection of national chains and individual discount shops still trading in private. Now, personally, I am a very big fan of shopping locally as it means I can pop into the castle hotel for a cup of coffee and at this point I have got to give a special mention to the boutique, Koko blush, because any time you see me standing here it is almost certain I will be wearing something from one of those shops.

Like everyone else in our great country, my constituents in Neath are a truly patriotic bunch. You would struggle to find a man, woman or child, who is not vehemently trailed -- proud to be Welsh. Rod of our country, our history, and of those that represent this. Back in July at the very start of this Parliament the leader of the strand my enriching team GB good luck in the Paris Olympics, particularly Dan Jarvis who is headed to Paris as part of the GB swim team.

And I mentioned again today earlier this month he retired from competitive swimming. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate him and all he achieved thank you for being such a wonderful role model. I know from visiting a host of grassroots across the constituency that we have plenty of aspiring athletes who want to follow his lead. And I was particularly pleased last October to be able to support the screening program that some of our young people from the club in Leith and in Swansea and thanks to generous donations we have been able to work with them to bring this program to young people who might not otherwise be able to access it in memory of her son, Toby.

It has always been my desire to help. That was the heart of why and stood for election 10 years ago and it decades on I remain as proud as I did then to be here with a now growing number of Welsh representatives in this place. And whilst I am not quite got so David work in miracles I do have a go and I will do everything in my power to help my constituents. I remain humble and thankful that the people put their trust again in meatless July.

And I look forward to continue to representing and supporting all of my constituents throughout this Parliament. And can I say this opportunity to wish Madam Deputy Speaker a very happy Saint David's

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day. Thank you. And before I go to the next speaker, members will appreciate that this debate is, quite rightly, heavily in development. If you could help each development. If you could help each other out by keeping remarks around the four-minute mark I will get

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the four-minute mark I will get everybody in. I call Apra Browning. Thank you. It is a pleasure to
15:42
Aphra Brandreth Portrait Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)
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Thank you. It is a pleasure to contribute to today's debate to mark St David's Day and to celebrate the rich culture, history, and contribution of Wales to our shared contribution of Wales to our shared union. My constituency of justice shares part of its western border with North will. And the ties between us run deep. Many of my constituents across the ideally for work, school appointments, and to visit family and friends. In fact Wales is particularly close to my heart because my mother was born in Swansea.

However, our past relationship with Wales has not always been as cordial and amicable. Henry, Prince of Wales, would go on to become Henry V, who was named Earl of Chester in September, 1403. He used his powers over the city of Chester to order all Welsh people, and Welsh sympathisers, to be expelled from the city following the back of -- battle of Shrewsbury) Welsh on uprising. During the battle, Henry sustained a nasty injury as a result of an arrow. This led to him becoming ever so simply paranoid about the prospect of further Welsh uprising and pushed him to pass a law that said that it was not permitted to enter Chester before sunrise or stay after sunset.

If he did, he would be subject to the penalty of decapitation. I am relieved to see that this is no longer in place as it would certainly put a dampener on our tourism industry, not to mention my family gatherings. It also led to an urban myth that it is legal to shoot a Welshman with a longbow after midnight in Chester on a Sunday, as long as it is in the city. You will be interested to know that I recently have taken up archery.

But let issue at the House that it is not with the intention of testing the legality of this law. Despite these moments of strange relations, we have always been linked by geography, trade, and shared experiences. Chester strategic location made it a key military stronghold for the Romans, the Mercian's, the Normans, and, most notably, it with the first during his conquest of Wales. Thankfully, these days are cross-border exchanges involving much less castle storming and much more cooperation. In the first and second world was, that Richmond fought against -- that Richmond fought against -- alongside the Welsh, in some of the most successful campaigns.

Including Gallipoli. This mutual support is something that we should celebrate. Cheshire and North will share a deep connection across multiple areas and I would like to briefly refer to two. The share economy and the shared infrastructure. Firstly, our local economy in Cheshire and North Wales are very much codependent on each other. Our rural economy supported on both side of the boat about was and producers. I was struck in recent Westminster cultivate when I intervened during that speech to highlight the importance of farming to our economies.

She said, in response, that her farm supports -- supplies milk to a major food supplier in my constituency. I did not know it at the time, but this coincidence illustrates perfectly how we work to support each other, particularly in the rural economy. Our local economies are deeply interconnected. Many workers from my constituency commune to industrial sites like Airbus, there are many commutes from Wales to work in my constituency. Of course, visitors from Wales helped to drive Chester's tourism and hospitality sector and it goes both ways.

Many of my constituents enjoy ways. Many of my constituents enjoy trips to the coast or a well placed -- and break in Anglesey. It is important to share a close economic literature going forward because both Cheshire and Wales are contributors to their economies and together lead the way in innovation and entrepreneurship in so many A strong economy must be supported by strong infrastructure, which brings me onto my second point. We have a great potential for growth in North West England and North Wales, but often our infrastructure does not meet demand.

I've mentioned in this House previously about the need to electrify the train line between Crewe, our major rail hub, and Chester, but if we are serious about growth and stimulatingly economy, then the North Wales mainline should be a lecture fight all the way to Holyhead to unlock its full potential. Road infrastructure is equally vital. Many of the roads that run through my constituency of Chester South and Eddisbury, such as the 851 or the N. Wales Expressway are critical for freight and connectivity.

Particularly linking the port of Holyhead to Liverpool and Manchester. And yet some roads, like the 851 are not suited to the volume and type of traffic they now carry. When heavy goods vehicles pass through villages like Clutton and Duggan where there are homes and Church of England primary school sitting right on the road, it is clear that improvements must be made. I'm hopeful that the government in partnership with their Welsh counterparts will continue to build on the positive momentum that was put in place by the previous government to deliver the transport upgrades that both sides of the border need.

A Saint Davids Day approaches, the future of Wales as part of this United Kingdom is bright and exciting. I will give way.

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I thank her. It's wonderful to hear that she has a new string to hear that she has a new string to her bow, but the point she is making here is about connectivity here is about connectivity insinuates and our shared heritage across this country, and isn't it a across this country, and isn't it a marvellous celebration. We'll have our national Saints, but ultimately

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our national Saints, but ultimately we come together as one nation, Great Britain. And more unites us than divides us. Absolute. My honourable friend

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Absolute. My honourable friend makes an important point, and all parts of our union are critically important. Our relationship with Wales is one of shared history, shared prosperity, and occasionally, friendly sporting rivalry. Of course our affection may be briefly set aside the 80 minutes when England travelled to Cardiff for the six nations in a couple of weeks time, but I'm confident that our friendship was arrive even another English victory. Wales remains an integral part of the United Kingdom, and there were deep ties, economic, cultural and personal will only continue to grow.

Let us celebrate that today. Let us work together to ensure that both sides of the border thrive in the years ahead. (SPEAKING IN WELSH) and happy Saint David's date was all.
15:49
Jessica Morden Portrait Jessica Morden MP (Newport East, Labour)
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Happy Saint David's day on Saturday in advance to all. As a ways, it's always a pleasure to take part in these debates and have opportunities to speak about our wonderful shared city of Newport. And also to see my honourable friend and neighbour certainly very proud Resident, as she does so ably chaired the Welsh Affairs Select Committee in this House will stop safe generations, Newport has been known for its rich industrial heritage when central to the world during the industrial revolution in Ireland, called globally from the port stocks, and the point of trivia, a dock disguised as Southampton in the recent Gavin and Stacey Christmas special when NASA, a very close friend of my honourable friend head to Panama.

Today, a new industrial revolution is under way in our city. It's bringing well-paid highly skilled jobs, fostering innovation and marking a significant shift in Newport's economic fortunes. And I'm speaking on this today as we look to the UK government and excellence active state to help us do so for that Newport is rapidly becoming a centre for technology, securing billions of pounds of investment. Both my constituency of Newport East and my honourable friends constituency of Newport West and is lying. From the decades long work of KLA in England and the site and Microsoft at the other end of the city which my honourable friend represents, we have a globally significant semiconductor cluster.

Newport is still a steel city and more of that later. But it is also evolving into a come silicon, a Welsh silicon valley of the UK for the powered by renewables, innovative such as SAE are leading the way. Repurchasing the former coal-fired power station into one of the U.K.'s largest battery energy storage plans. This will store energy form renewables, and it's right next to the Severn estuary, so any investment in technology is welcome there, and fed directly into the grid, ensuring that Newport steps into the new Industrial Revolution with the environment at its heart, protecting our unique natural surroundings.

At the centre of this since our cities port, the UK still the largest steel port. Now it's leading the way in becoming a port in the future with an ambitious plan to decarbonise. This will not only sustain the port's long-term viability and provide a source of renewable energy the city but will also create new jobs for the city of Newport. At home I write and befriend the Frontbench will ensure a strategy for Welsh ports is very much part of the industrial strategy.

The city has come a long way since 1962 when the steelworks became the first place in the world to use a computer to control a hot strip mill. It continues to produce world-class continues to produce world-class automotive steel, thanks to its dedicated and highly skilled workforce, represented by excellent unions. And in recent months, reached a new ALPA record of 14 kt in a week following the introduction of new technology. With ongoing work by the government to establish a long-term and ambitious vision for the UK steel industry and through the industrial strategy and the steel strategy, Llanwern has the potential to maintain an exciting future on the cutting-edge of steelmaking.

But it's really important that that steel strategy addresses the major challenges the industry faces. We are appreciative I know of the 2.5 billion in support for the industry, but ahead of the expiry of the existing steel safeguards next year, ministers will know that the industry is calling for robust quotas from global access capacity, which will protect the UK market from global access capacity and trade diversion. Especially in light of the UK-US tariffs. The strategy also needs to address the persistent issue of energy costs and procurement.

And an update from my honourable friend from any conversations with cabinets will be welcome. Since the last Industrial Revolution, the city is once again essential to the industries of tomorrow. Without other vital components, wafers, data centres for hyper scalars, Semiconductor Manufacturing equipment and renewable energy capacity, the UK risks missing out on this AI data driven Industrial Revolution. And with the support and investment in Newport from the UK and Welsh government is working in partnership with industry, we can move forward with these ambitious plans outlined in our manifesto with the industrial strategy now coming together.

Newport sits at the heart of all that is vital to transforming public services and driving economic growth across the UK, and I know our Newport City Council leader would love to pursue plans for an AI growth zone to make use of our strengths and assets and take advantage of the incredible opportunities that lie ahead for our city. An amount befriend for a West End I would welcome supporting these plans and all Newport representatives on the council big ambitions for our city in this field.

In closing, I invite all members to pick up their mobile phones or their tablets if they are allowed, without the R&D work happening at KLA in my constituency, you will be up to do everything you can do on your device. Every day we interact with hundreds of devices that wouldn't exist without the cutting-edge R&D carried out by KLA, which builds the equipment needed to malefactor semiconductors, sending what is right in the heart of all that. I thank her for the opportunity to raise this today, and I look forward to the venture and working with colleagues in government at both ends of the M 40 to pursue this very ambitious vision for our city.



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Of iconic speaker, I'm very keen to try and get everybody in, so I'm imposing an immediate four minute time limit. I call Ann Davies.

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time limit. I call Ann Davies. (SPEAKING IN WELSH) before I start? I refer members to my start? I refer members to my register of interest? And what a pleasure it is to be here today at my very first Saint David's day debate at the House. Representing debate at the House. Representing the fine people of my constituency. And there is a tradition have this And there is a tradition have this debate, I do want to thank the Backbench committee finding the time that this tradition continues, and we have the opportunity to discuss
15:56
Ann Davies Portrait Ann Davies MP (Caerfyrddin, Plaid Cymru)
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we have the opportunity to discuss all things Welsh. I'm delighted today to be joined by one of my three daughters and her beautiful family as it's half term week in Wales. And this is their very first visit to the House. (SPEAKING IN WELSH) is a farmer from a predominantly agricultural community, you'd expect me to start with the land. I am not going to disappoint you. And we are going to talk about famine. -- Farming. 74% of the landless agricultural, and this isn't just a statistic.

It's a reflection of our way of life. Farming supports families, strengthens our rural economy and keeps our Welsh language and culture thriving. And as a tenant dairy farmer myself, I understand first hand the dedication, hard work and sacrifices that come with this way of life. That's why this government is complete disregard for the sector has been astounding. The changes to the APR or the BPR are pushing family farms to the brink. And ignoring this reality is a betrayal. It's not just for farmers, but the communities, the business, the local economies that depend on them.

And according to union figures, we must remember this. For every pound spent by the agricultural industry, 9 pounds is created locally. Fed into local businesses, retaining that circular economy on which we all depend. And along with farmers, local businesses which they support our crucial tower local economy. We have incredible businesses in my constituency, ABS, Morgan Murray engineering just to name a few, all trading and employing local people. And then there is the publicly owned farm, a council owned farm growing fresh high quality and affordable produce for our schools, care homes and cafe's.

Let me tell you, their tomatoes and carrots absolutely to die for, delicious. These examples show that our communities don't like potential or ambition but have lacked investment. We need targeted rural economic strategy, one that delivers stable jobs, affordable housing and real support for small businesses. Farmers are also instrumental in providing answers to tackle the climate and nature crises, adopting renewable energy through a mix of solar, wind and marine. It's a way to play our part in addressing these issues. But the transition to renewable energy must also consider the needs of our communities and natural environment.

And the natural beauty is priceless, yet green trends plans to scar our landscapes with a chain of pylons running through the valleys. Under grounding these cables, something that local groups have long demanded would not only preserve the natural beauty of the landscape but also protect our power supply from increasingly extreme weather events. Driven by the climate crisis. Power outages following storm Dara and Aylwin were caused by falling trees on underground literacy cables.

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Grateful. The sense of the security of our infrastructure and energy supply is absolutely crucial from weather and also enemy attacks.

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from weather and also enemy attacks. Absolutely. It's vital that any new electricity infrastructure is new electricity infrastructure is placed underground. And wouldn't... This is what I'm coming onto, This is what I'm coming onto, wouldn't it make more sense to have new infrastructure placed underground as they do in Belgium, underground as they do in Belgium, Holland, Germany, Denmark, Ireland, and most European countries? We have a once in a generation opportunity to build a green economy that works for everyone in Wales, not just big investors.

So let's get it right. You know St David himself said (SPEAKING IN WELSH), which means do the little things. But let's be clear, little things does not mean insignificant things. Thriving family farms, strong local businesses, green energy that works for our communities, these things may be seem small in isolation, but put together, they shaped our economy, our culture, and our future. So let's stand up our farmers, stand up for our businesses, and our communities. Let's invest in Wales.

And let's get Day.
16:00
Catherine Fookes Portrait Catherine Fookes MP (Monmouthshire, Labour)
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(SPEAKING IN WELSH) to my Honourable Friends for Newport West for securing this debate and for securing this debate and (SPEAKING IN WELSH), happy St David's Day, everyone. 25 years ago I was extremely lucky to make Wales my home and I am so proud to represent them, it is the most beautiful constituency in Wales. We have the most incredible sites, with the commanding in the north and the picturesque valley national landscape in the East as well as print market towns as well as the marshes in the south.

Last week I visited prisons and our fantastic probation services and I would like to take a moment to pay tribute to all of our public servants working across Wales and Monmouthshire to teachers, doctors, nurses, prison and probation officers and so much more. They are at the heart of our communities. I know that each community across Monmouthshire is vibrant and adds to that welcoming culture that we in Wales are so proud of. After all, monitor community organisations are some of best in the UK.

The community always really surround and support each other in a crisis. Whether it is the floods or the Abergavenny community floods or the Abergavenny community centre. Wales also has a strong and long history with the Labour Party, from electing great leaders and political thinkers like Keir Hardie in Merthyr Tydfil, James Callaghan in Cardiff. It is a history that we value and should never take for granted. The bond between Wales and Labour is built on an understanding of the priorities of our communities and a Welsh Labour Government colleagues have been delivering for Wales for over 25 gas.

They have shaped a country where we are proud to work differently in partnership with the public sector charities and unions. We are a country that leads the way on the environment, with the world first future generations act, act of travel bill, plastic bag tax, leading on recycling. Under country that has prioritised families delivering universal free school for all primary schools. The biggest school building investment in Welsh schools since the 1960s. We have got three new secondary schools in Monmouthshire were built under the Welsh Government 21st century schools program, so unlike the Conservatives opposite, we never stopped investing in our schools and in our young but at the very later -- latest school will open its doors in Abergavenny in April.

We are a country that stands up for what we believe in and we fight for it. It is an honour to be in Monmouthshire MP and we have two Labour Governments working together. What a difference it has made to all of our services. I am proud that more of our Monmouthshire residents are starting to learn Welsh. My included. Though I am at the very start of my journey and I must apologise to all of the fluent Welsh speakers for my pronunciation. We have three Welsh leaking primary schools now in the county.

And I very recently added. I really grateful to all of the campaigners over the years that have made these schools open, particularly the counsel of Judy Thomas. I recognise much like our current rugby team that Welsh language in Monmouthshire is on the rise, but there is still some way to go. Wales has a lot to offer and for a small nation has given the world so much. I am so proud to consider myself Welsh, having moved there 25 years ago and represent the great constituency of Monmouthshire.

I am incredibly humble and proud that the people of Monmouthshire chose me in July 2024.

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So, to finish, (SPEAKING IN WELSH). St David the patron saint of Wales was a renowned teacher, taking Wales was a renowned teacher, taking Wales was a renowned teacher, taking his lessons across Wales. He found the settlement of churches in Wales, Brittany, and south-west England. Teaching his message of discipline Teaching his message of discipline and living a simple life which shipped the communities he served. shipped the communities he served. When it comes to the Wales of today we can do well to remember histories we can do well to remember histories lessons and not repeat the same mistakes.

In particular, we seem to be struggling to learn from experience when it comes to the
16:06
Llinos Medi Portrait Llinos Medi MP (Ynys Môn, Plaid Cymru)
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economy. In 2025 Wilson's GDP person is 26% below the UK average. And parts of Wales, including West parts of Wales, including West Wales, the valleys, and my constituency are performing even constituency are performing even more poorly. Child is set to reach over 34% by the end of this decade and in Scotland it is forecasted to and in Scotland it is forecasted to be 15% lower. For decades we have failed to address the fundamental problems that face Wales. We have problems that face Wales.

We have never had an ambitious strategic economic plan. The case for any radical and made in Wales approach to economic development is clear for all to see. Of course I will.

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She must be, I thank the honourable member for giving way. Would you not join me in welcoming Would you not join me in welcoming the new liver governance efforts and particularly the industrial strategy particularly the industrial strategy so that we can discuss the growth that has affected many of our communities in West Wales and my constituency of Pembrokeshire. I

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constituency of Pembrokeshire. I thank the honourable member. I thank the honourable member for

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I thank the honourable member for his intervention. And I am not sure if you looked through the ambitious plan, as you mentioned, and how many times Wales was actually mentioned in that plan. And if you put the word Wales into it I think it is nine times you will find Wales is recognised in that plan and that shows that lack of ambition for Wales. Wales has immense natural and is in a prime position to lead on industries for the future and give us energy security.

And this is a clear example of this potential where we have the project, a community owned project will receive technology from across the world looking at the potential of deploying their technologies at these zones. And also the best site in the UK for nuclear power projects which would drive growth and economic development across the area and not well. I urge the Government to officially designate Wilma as a preferred site for nuclear development. And across Wales there is huge potential for offshore wind.

According to the Crown Estate the Celtic Sea movement upcoming offshore wind developments could create up to 5,300 new jobs and generate 1.4 billion for the UK economy. It evolved Crown Estate would ensure that these jobs are created and kept locally. Maximising our clean energy potential must be done in a strategic way for economic growth that benefits our communities. We should also recognise that value of our agriculture sector to the economy and the importance of food security. This is why we should not be pursuing large scale solar farms on agricultural land.

There is plenty of room small-scale such as on rooftops and buildings. The projects on the my would have a detrimental impact on the economy stop solar farms do not create jobs, they dissolve jobs. Taking some of the old measures I have outlined today will help create new jobs and opportunities for people in Wales. It would revitalise the economy and help to encourage people to stay in Wales whilst also attracting many people back. This is the bold innovative thinking that we need for the second half of this decade and beyond and we are ready to deliver this vision for the communities of Wales.

Can I wish you a happy Sunday

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and to all of the House. Andrew Ranger.

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Andrew Ranger. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a real pleasure to speak on my first St David's Day debate in this place along with so many other new
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Andrew Ranger Portrait Andrew Ranger MP (Wrexham, Labour)
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national and local pride for Welsh communities where we celebrate everything that makes us proud of Wales. I am looking forward to joining our annual St David's Day parade in Wrexham by the band this parade in Wrexham by the band this Saturday. On what will be a busy day in the city with our award-winning in the city with our award-winning Street market and our home game. St Street market and our home game. St David was known to have been a David was known to have been a radical in his time, doing away with and challenging the perceived norms of the time.

This radical spirit is something that we see woven into the fabric of Welsh politics. The vertical spirit that saw them lead the charge for the National Health Service, the fight against the devastation of the Thatcher and conservative decisions to close the mines in our decade and the enduring Christopher evolution which was finally reached just over 25 years ago under the last UK Labour Government. The devolution we celebrate has allowed Wales to do things differently. Read -- free prescriptions, cutting and not scrapping once for students and a publicly owned train company and the first well-being of future generations act in the UK.

All of this and much more achieved because of devolution, not in spite of it, as so many believe. Strong devolved nation has been part of the union. Devolution is an evolving journey, not a destination,, to seeing where that journey develops and we have two Governments working together. St David's Day has brought some excellent proud history that we share, so it is a shame that no reform members are in the chamber today. To help them brush on their history across the border for the next day trip.

Our history ranges far and wide from Saint Davids to Wrexham, to Holyhead. I hope colleagues will forgive me if I speak a bit further on the history and closer to home, any opportunity. Most, of course, will know but the world famous Wrexham FC, but what they may be less aware of is that role that our city played in ensuring that Welsh wall is what it is today, in February 1776, the group of football enthusiasts met in the centre of Wrexham and from that meeting the formation of the football Association of Wales and the Welsh cup which remains one of the oldest competitions in the world with Wrexham winning a record 23 times.

This is the oldest international stadium in the world still hosting matches, the most recent of which was earlier this week and Wales is first home match was held in 1877 and it has hosted more Wales international matches than any other ground. Much is said about this, but not enough about that seven wonders of Wales, three of which can be found in my constituency. We have got in Giles church in the centre of the city. The Overton you trees which are estimated to be about 2,000 years old.

The bells of all since church in restaurant which have been ringing continuously, hopefully with a break, six -- since the 16th century, sometimes of their own volition. With no debate about Wales would be compete without the mention of BR. Wrexham Lager has a history that spans back to 1982 and continues to be a significant contributor to the Welsh economy, exported from Wales to across the world and I just joined other members here today and excellent showcase of all student drinks. Another Wrexham brewery, Magic Dragon, work there showing their exceptional beers as well.

There is so much more to say about Wales and Wrexham. But in the interest of time, I shall finish by wishing everyone a (SPEAKING IN WELSH) for Saturday.

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Alex Barros-Curtis.
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Alex Barros-Curtis Portrait Mr Alex Barros-Curtis MP (Cardiff West, Labour)
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(SPEAKING IN WELSH) to my honourable friend in Newport West and I congratulate her for her stewardship of the Welsh affairs Select Committee. As a new member of Parliament it is an honour to take part in my first St David's Day debate. Despite what some news outlets have said, this is a lesson to not believe everything we have in the press. I am a proud Welshman, I am proud to be one of the representatives of our nations capital in this chamber. St David's Day allows us to celebrate our patron Saint.

Incidentally, the only native born patron saint of the four home nations. But St David's Day also allows us an opportunity to come together to celebrate our communities, to talk powerfully about the brilliance of Wales, to be ambassadors for Wales, both at home and abroad. Today, we have heard some excellent contributions from colleagues across house about how brilliant their constituencies are, but I sure, that you will agree with me, that it is universally acknowledged that we remain the best. It is a vibrant, brilliant community that is the proud left bank of Wales.

Tooth -- my first Ministers have come from my constituency and the first was born in Ely in the heart of my constituency. In my Maiden speech I descriptor whilst each area of Cardiff West is defined by its own unique character, the common thread that runs through them is of a proud community complete with families, local activists, sports clubs, volunteers and faith leaders. All committed to serving the neighbourhoods that they call home. Although I of course love all parts of my billiard constituency, I do just want to place a little focus on Ely in this contribution.

Ely is a proud area that has had many problems over the gas, reporting happens on Ely the media tends to focus only on the negative, rather than on the vibrancy and community spirit that I have seen in my short spirit that I have seen in my short This vibrancy and community spirit has been tested by housing shortages, benefit cuts, austerity and lack of investment over the last 40 years. Let's be clear, despite the amnesiac from the applied Camry benches opposite, this was a legacy of a Tory Westminster government.

Now under this government, we have the first time in 14 years a Westminster government committed to delivering for Wales for the first time in a generation. And since the general election, Wales has seen the largest funding boost since devolution with £21 billion of new money for Wales and a record 1.7 billion spending boost for the Welsh government to support public services, including the NHS, and I pay tribute to the Frontbench, my right honourable friends for their efforts in securing this funding and their continuing work to forge a new partnership with the Welsh government, returning it to a partnership of respect.

Since my election, I've sought to focus on easily and help tackling some of the issues whilst also promoting its story. For example it needs improvement to its parks, they welcome Cardiff council's commitment to a new youth zone. Over the years, Healy has had a proud sporting tradition. It sports clubs are at the heart of the community, and in the weekend, neighbouring grounds are a huge force of joy for children, adults and families. We must also support further funding in our schools. Cardiff West community high School serves both sides of Ely.

I've seen the great work they do in the community, working with partners to make the new facilities available to young people across the constituency.

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Thank you. I just wondered if my

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Thank you. I just wondered if my honourable friend would like to join with me to congratulate the Welsh Labour government on their work on Labour government on their work on schools in Wales? Keeping the schools in Wales? Keeping the . When it was cut in England in 2010 through the 21st century schools program, and now through sustainable communities for Wales, which has

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communities for Wales, which has seen schools and colleges across Wales... Order. The envelope was going to be next on my list. That was a very long intervention.

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I thank my Noble Friend for that intervention. I wholeheartedly agree and support the intervention she's and support the intervention she's made. Looking forward to her speech to hear more about it. Of course the to hear more about it. Of course the route of property make the route out of poverty as to education and we of poverty as to education and we must continue to work with the Welsh government to improve education outcomes. Already the proposed budget of the wash, was the extra budget of the wash, was the extra one £5 billion of public services.

This once again showing the power of partnership between two governments working together in the interest of working together in the interest of the Welsh people. So why therefore applied Camry will be joining the Conservatives to vote against this investment at the budget next week is beyond me. Very briefly.

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Am sure he knows as well as I come in real terms this is not an increase, and also it is frontloaded in the Welsh budget. We know there in the Welsh budget. We know there is proof coming down the track with badges in future, so it's hardly appropriate to be singing the praises of this budget knowing what's on its way.

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what's on its way. I will civilly say last I may disagree with some of what the honourable Adey has said, it's still honourable Adey has said, it's still inexcusable to me why the applied Camry would vote against an extra 1.5 billion in the budget next week, it seems an unfathomable reason. I it seems an unfathomable reason. I will conclude by saying I am proud to serve the constituents of Cardiff West, and I will always work hard for all of the community there.

And let me conclude by saying to everyone in this House and to all my

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constituents, (SPEAKING IN WELSH). Can I congratulate my honourable

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Can I congratulate my honourable friend the Member for Newport West on securing this important debate?
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Steve Witherden Portrait Steve Witherden MP (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr, Labour)
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on securing this important debate? Having spent my entire life in various parts of Glyndwr, it's an honour to represent my constituency, an area steeped in a rich history of Wales. Version for example was the cradle of the Industrial Revolution, home to the Davies brothers workshops where British iron making began in 1670, where smelting iron or with Coke first took place in 1721, and whether pioneer of industrialisation established himself in 1761 with a first single malt canons in the world were bought during the American War of Independence.

It was also the site where the cylinders for James Watt steam engine manufactured. While much of Wales industrial development focused on the extraction of raw materials, such as coal, slate, and water, the Chester Railway, the oldest commercial rail line in Wales was not used for resource extraction. Rather it was used to export manufactured goods made from the beautiful red clay deposits in the area to England. Fast forward to the present day, and it is wonderful to see how modern Glandore has upgraded.

The Holyrood style Wrexham site when the four book club gained two famous owners. All the old chemical plant site has naturally rewarded with an abundance of bodily flowers and butterflies during the summer months. A walk up the valley to the top of it is now beautiful and idyllic as it was in preindustrial times with rare birds and other animals in the book. It's full of people with big hearts doing things every day to make our vibrant constituency so special.

Constituents established a community venue at the hanging Gardens, providing cake, soup, entertainment, wood and metal work classes, completing a town that already boasts community energy and solar organisations. It offers a chance to borrow, not by from the library of things. And our town councillors recently opened local town council run toilets at a time when so many public conveniences are closing. This has made a big difference to the many visitors at the brilliant comedy festival. Tireless volunteers are campaigning to reopen the railway station and establish a museum at the very spot where the factory once did.

In Welshpool the community hub has evolved from being a welcoming space into a supportive environment offering multiple services, one of the councillors has recently led the successful project to provide free community Wi-Fi, alleviating data poverty for many residents. Our agricultural shows residents. Our agricultural shows and fetes would not be possible without the help of an array of amazing volunteers. The community wellness hub at the George Edwards Hall which has made a real and substantial impact on the mental health of local people.

Recently celebrated 10 years of their leisure centre, which is owned and managed by community. The splash community trust manages the facility has expanded its remit to support the community by hosting a food bank and offering other advice services. Their success story has been an

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WELSH). Happy St David stake everyone. A

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Happy St David stake everyone. A lot can change in a year, so had a look back on my speech from last year to see what's different. And it year to see what's different. And it turns out only I need to make one adjustment opening lines last year, so here goes first of I thank my good friend the honourable member for Newport West for securing this debate. One I look forward to every year. My apologies to the former right honourable member for taking right honourable member for taking him out, as he's a good friend, but as I say, needs must.

I'm disappointed that this year we are back again off the back of three defeats in the men's six Nations. I am hopeful however that the women's squad will provide some national joy when the tournament kicks off later
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Tonia Antoniazzi Portrait Tonia Antoniazzi MP (Gower, Labour)
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in March. Now onto the new, and perhaps the biggest change in the last 12 months. A New Labour last 12 months. A New Labour government in the UK and Wales. Labour took 27 seats in Wales with 10 new here today, you are welcome with open arms. And this is one of with open arms. And this is one of the highlights of the year I have to tell you. So may I also extend this tell you. So may I also extend this welcome to our new Welsh MPs and other parties.

We may not be aligned other parties. We may not be aligned on everything, but we all do care deeply about getting the best outcomes for Wales. Following the boundary changes at the general election, my team and I have been working alongside two Labour embassies, Rebecca Evans and Julie James of Swansea West. Both have recently announced that they will be standing down at the next election, so I want to take this opportunity to thank them for their service to their constituents and to the people of Wales in their ministerial roles.

I've told members in this place many times before, and it remains unchanged, that I represent the most beautiful part of Wales. It's world-famous for its breathtaking coastline. So naturally the quality of our seawater is deeply important to my constituents and to me. In the last 12 months, I've set up a campaign testing the bathing water throughout the whole of the winter season. And this is really down to the secret of the success, which is the commitment of my constituents, local businesses and the society.

Those of us who live near the coast know that our constituents swim or dip in the sea all year round, not just during the bathing season. And I'd like to pay tribute to Dawn Thomas from nature days who has gathered all of the data and Sarah Samuels, the secretary of the mentioned Gower Society who have been absolutely outstanding running this program. And what we are doing is new, so the guidance is really important and will feed into Welsh government and the UK Government.

But Gower is also known for its rural landscape, and farming plays a pivotal role in the constituency. Many farmers have rightly raised concerns with me about the announcements in the budget relating to inheritance tax. I want to assure them that I will continue to listen and share their concerns with government, ensuring that their voices are heard. As with many rural communities, pubs are largely important in Gower, and Tuesday next week, make sure you are there, Ms Knight in the Parliamentary calendar.

I will be welcoming Lara from the cakes head as she is a pub finalist in the community hub hero awards. And as chair of the all- party parliamentary group, of course I am, I'm delighted that there is some local representation at the pub annual awards, which celebrates the contribution of pubs and hospitality and what they make to their communities. Some things will never change, and I want to talk about women in sport in Wales. I want to take this time to congratulate also the women's football team for reaching the women's football team for reaching the euros this year.

Years of hard work dedication has paid off and I wish them well in Switzerland, particularly against our neighbours, old sporting rivals the English, but don't worry, panic not, I haven't forgotten about the rugby. Thank you. rugby. Thank you.

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(SPEAKING IN WELSH). I need no excuse to wax lyrical about Wales, particularly the mighty God left, North Wales which I'm proud to call home. But I'm delighted to have the
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Gill German Portrait Gill German MP (Clwyd North, Labour)
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home. But I'm delighted to have the opportunity to do so here in this House as part of my first debate to mark Saint David's day. In my teaching days, I would have spent Saint David's day organising paper), cutting folding and sticking yellow pig into daffodils, and conducting singing in the round. However, here in the run-up to St David stake, (SPEAKING IN WELSH). Here I am, in the House of Commons as the proud the House of Commons as the proud MP.

(SPEAKING IN WELSH). Thanks to the Wales coastal path, running along the coastline of Wales, I can take you all for a walk along the constituency end-to-end. The site wide sandy beaches, other coastal areas can only dream of. From rail pass the Pavilion Theatre and the lifeboat station that has served our waters for over hundred and 50 years, through Kimball Bay, towering and the hundreds of camera -- caravans on the shore. Through the glorious path alias in Colwyn Bay with its watersports centre and divine seafood at the Bryn Williams bistro.

The bobbing boats and sheep cafe's and chop -- shops. Our coastline is truly selling to be proud of. That in itself is of course a thing to behold, but there is so much more. The market town of Denbigh where everybody knows your name with historic Denbigh Castle and the fabulously renovated button market, now a centre of well-being, culture and heritage. The fine Welsh folly that is bottled in the castle, now a beautiful hotel. The magnificent cathedral of Saint Asif and the majestic splendour of Britain Castle.

Clwyd North has so much to offer. And across Wales, we have lots to be proud of. The coastal path is just one of the achievements that shows the value we place on well-being and rights in Wales. A journey had travelled by our Welsh Labour government against the hard wins of 14 years of Tory rule in Westminster. In 2015, we passed the well-being of future generations act, giving Wales the ambition, permission and the legal obligation to improve social cultural and environmental well- being.

This of course chimes loudly with the long-term aims of our UK Labour government. And this is no At last we have a partner in the West Minster Government to jointly work towards our shared labour aims. The partnership and power as the first Minister and my right honourable friend that member from Cardiff East the Secretary of State for Wales we are finally setting about realising our hopes and ambitions for the future. We have made a great start. With the largest funding moved to Wales since the dawn of devolution.

This means that long-held regeneration ambitions can finally start to become a reality. Which is no less than our communities deserve. This St David's Day, we have more to celebrate than ever in Wales. With a vision and plan for the future backed by two Labour Governments. My -- Wales is moving forward with a partnership of power. (SPEAKING IN WELSH).

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I thank the red honourable friend for that as well as my good friend
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Henry Tufnell Portrait Henry Tufnell MP (Mid and South Pembrokeshire, Labour)
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for that as well as my good friend and neighbour for securing this debate. St David's Day is a very important day for Wales, but particularly for my constituency my Mid and South Pembrokeshire. I live in St David, the birthplace of the patron Saint. The area surrounding Saint David's is part of the Pembrokeshire Coast National. Breathtaking cliff walks, hidden beaches, and amazing wildlife, have been a site of thousands of holidays, hikes, and even films that. This weekend sent Davids will host the annual Dragon.

In honour of the birth of St David and we will see schoolchildren, community groups, and local residents sharing in a day of joy and local tradition. The parade will feature music, cold colourful dragons made by the residents of Saint David's, showcasing some of the creativity of Pembrokeshire. I was lucky enough to experience for myself the incredible creative talent we have in Pembrokeshire last week at the annual current Shakespeare School Theatre Festival and the torch festival in Milford Haven. This festival rides an incredible opportunity for children of all ages and educational needs and my communities get involved in local theatre, building their confidence, tackling issues of anxiety and mental health and equipping them for skills for life.

And that is why I am sure thrilled that our most -- Welsh Labour government's commitment to supporting the brilliant arts and culture centre with a 4.4 million annual funding boost announced last week. I will give way.

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Thank you. May I extend thanks to

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Thank you. May I extend thanks to the people of Central Ayrshire to Wales on this St David's Day. And as a former commissioner I would I was a former commissioner I would I was dilated in Mumbai to spend time with the achievement of the people of Wales all around the world. And I Wales all around the world. And I know that there are many friends that Wales has in India and around the bed because of those creative industries.

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I think the honourable member. Could I just say I will be

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Could I just say I will be calling the frontbenchers at 4:35 PM precisely. I think the honourable member forgiving way and I will therefore make some progress. The crucial support will protect our theatres, cultural spaces, and museums. So that they can continue to play a central role in educational community engagement and tourism. Local sports clubs are at the heart of our communities, promoting active, healthy styles, and supporting our most talented athletes to achieve their dreams. Lexi David's and son Jasmine Joyce representing team GB at the rugby women sevens and the Tokyo Olympics and Joe Allen, midfield for Wales that started playing out in local Tenby football team.

Temperature is bursting with talent. And I am determined to determine that my constituency given support and resources that they need to unleash their full potential, so I was delighted with the recent commitment from the energy secretary and is in Pembrokeshire as a key growth region for clean energy. This will mean more investment in skills, jobs, secure jobs for the future, after years of neglect from successive Tory Governments in Westminster. Labour is putting a photo confident in Pembrokeshire. This commitment will support the fantastic work of Pembrokeshire College, local businesses that are already leading the way to maximise the benefits of the transition from local people.

Just last week I visited WB Griffiths, a local construction company based in Holford West and their fantastic cohort of new apprentices. This family run business offers a brilliant range of apprenticeships and makes a real difference in our community, helping to improve the energy efficiency of buildings and homes. We have a proud industrial history. The oil industry, transformative the county's economic fortunes in the 1960s and 70s. And I will give way

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to the honourable Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Member for meeting

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I thank the Member for meeting the time limit so neatly. That gives us to the frontbenchers. David Chadwick. Thank you. And I would like to
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David Chadwick Portrait David Chadwick MP (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you. And I would like to thank the Honourable Members for securing this debate. Our patron securing this debate. Our patron Saint, St David, championed the virtues of leadership and perseverance. Edginess to do the little things. His words, though centuries old, resonate powerfully as we face the ongoing challenges in our constituencies today. And his words underscored the necessity for meticulous attention to the seemingly minor yet impactful decisions that together we've the effective fabric of governance. Over the last eight months, I have seen how small decisions can change lives for the better.

The residents are delighted to know that a banking hope will be opening on their high street within the next three months following my request for one. This will boost an already thriving High Street and spur on the local economy. They were once a vibrant hub of industrial activity. The closure of the TikTok factory in 1999 was a significant economic blow to the town, resulting in hundreds of redundancies. Established in the 1940s, those factories were described to me as the making of local women.

Those factories thrive throughout the 19 thrive throughout the 1950s and into the 1960's, heralding a new era in the surrounding areas. Local women enjoyed economic independence, regardless of their education, back in, or marital status. The flexibility in working hours offered in the factories was revolutionary, allowing them to structure their shift patterns to their family commitments. And at its zenith, those factories and put over 2,000 workers and provided more than just employment. They fostered a community. Each worker was automatically a member of the social and recreational club that featured rugby and football teams, a choir, and offered much more, including brigadier trips and dances.

Moreover, the closure of Dewhirst factory in 1998 resulted in 300 job losses. The closure was part of a broader program that had heard the local economy and communities well- being. At the end of operations at Dewhirst it highlighted the vulnerability of such communities to global shifts in industrial practices and economic policies. Those closures are not insured history. Their effect is a start, recent reality, that continues to affect community profoundly. The legacy of foundries like TikTok and Dewhirst illustrates the pitfalls of globalisation.

They show us how industries can significantly influence community building and social empowerment, but also how they can lead to profound community they can lead to profound community and economic disruption. And various successive Governments since then have failed to replace those jobs. Yet despite those challenges the community faces there is hope in initiatives like the mobile banking hope that is coming to us shortly. And that will stand as a testament to the resilience and adaptive spirit of these communities. And this institution signals a potential revival of economic engagement and empowerment.

However, it also highlights the gaps left by the government's sporadic sport and responses which fails to harness the full potential of Welsh innovation and resourcefulness. Wales, as we all know, is it mostly rural nation. A nation of small towns and villages. One might imagine that the party opposite would understand the importance of rural public services. But people living in rural areas in Wales are watching as their services disappear one by one. Just this week, police stations were closed without any prior warning.

This will make it harder for the people that want to keep us safe to do their jobs. Police officers, are key workers, and their offices should be treated as such. Due to impending top-down reorganisations, small towns are also facing the closure of their fire stations. How can anyone think it is a good idea to even consider taking fire engines out of communities that are frequently cut off by flooding? Following storm after storm over the past year, the fire service teams across the area have proven themselves indispensable, and so are those services.

These closures demonstrate public jeopardise public safety and the trust to protect and serve rural communities. Each closure and each comeback is a stark reminder of the Government wavering commitment to public safety. Underscoring the need to address this is not just a matter of convenience but it is a fundamental issue of community security. The controversy surrounding the demolition of the premier school following its closure in 2019 due to a supposedly on-site risk underscores the urgent need for transparency and evidence-based decision-making that involves and listens to local communities.

Despite this marking its sixth anniversary, people and teachers remain in temporary classrooms without a clear plan for the future. This uncertainty coupled with doubt about the actual risks posed calls for a thorough examination of the facts to ensure policies are built on solid foundations. Now, drawing inspiration from the great Welsh leader, David Lloyd George, the greatest Welsh politician of all time, the longest continuous serving MP in this House is history, 56 years of continuous service.

We are reminded of the transformative power of bold and decisive action. In his own words, the finest eloquence is that which gets things done. David Lloyd George who reshaped British society in the early 20th century with progressive reforms understood the difference between the balance, vision and action and his legacy is a testament to the impact that visionary leadership can have on a nations course. And now the spirit of Welsh liberalism breathes again in this chamber, I want to turn Wales into a nation of winners again because the Welsh Liberal Democrats are winning again in Wales.

Let us embody the spirit of St David by committing to both the small and significant actions necessary to secure a prosperous future for Wales. Let us move boldly forward, together advocating forcing David stay to be recognised as a national holiday.

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I thank my honourable friend forgiving way. And I commend him on an excellent speech. It is great to see the Liberal Democrats supporting St David's Day a national holiday where we join and some not the campaign for Cornwall to have their

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national day. Thank him for his intervention and, of course, I support his campaign and I hope he will also endorse our campaign forcing David

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endorse our campaign forcing David stay to be noticed as a public Absolutely. Secretary of State.
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Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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Secretary of State. (SPEAKING IN WELSH). And it is an honour to be closing today's debate on St David's Day and Welsh on behalf of of his majesties loyal opposition. And it is a huge honour to be doing this, the team, counsellors, and other activists have always been known in this party as the honourably Welsh, it has never felt more right than today, but being in Wales, living in Wales, has shipped my life for the last 30 years, I have spent nearly 10 years of my life, as I get older that number somewhat diminishes in terms of percentage in Wales and I, like many members here, have a massive passion for Wales.

Those that have lived there no just how special it is. It has shipped our lives, our hopes, our dreams and our families. And it is certainly an unforgettable experience and I quite pleased that many of my nights out in Swansea have been forgotten by my friends and family. Now, the only reason I left Wales actually, yes, a lot of that. The only reason I left Wales was because my ex-husband's job, and you do say that there are exes for a reason, so there we go.

And I will not go into the name, that is definitely for another day, but what I would like to say is it has been certainly an extra pleasure to conclude this debate on behalf of Makati today. After the Wales Food & Drink Showcase earlier. I am particularly impressed with the Atlantic oysters which arrived here from beautiful temperature. The family run vineyard wine in Wales never tasted so good. And beef jerky and salt beef. What an afternoon for us here in the House of Commons.

And I was recently in Wales with the Leader of the Opposition in Wrexham and I certainly think we could use a bucketful of those oysters going forward. I was with some of my constituents recently and people know, my constituency is not in Wales. But many of the jobs and livelihoods from one of my particular businesses, the caravan and motorhomes, is absolutely vital to Wales in terms of running the campsites, the jobs and the opportunities across the nation. And it would be remiss of me not to share in this box their concerns around the tourism tax and the NI I do believe we had a spirited conversation Wales as we were all expecting this House, and it's right that the issues were raised and we that the issues were raised and we use this opportunity to champion Wales and a reunion at every opportunity, and that's why my party, the Conservative and Unionist party has never shied away from doing just that.

We fully believe in Wales. That's why we are so dedicated to making sure that that potential positivity is unleashed. Let me turn to some of the comments made this afternoon by honourable members. The chair of the Select Committee, the honourable lady was very jealous of her meeting the other Ruth Jones. Not only are ZEV brilliant, but the books are brilliant as well. What a talented lady. The honourable lady the leader of the Clyde party, an outstanding daffodil, as you would expect this afternoon, a characteristic speech of passion and love for Wales.

The new seat of Neath and Swansea East, I was fascinated by the honourable lady talking up Neath market and balancing that with Swansea market is a difficult challenge. But if there is one lady who is up to it, it's that lady right there. The honourable lady from Gower, I was recently very lucky to pop along to the beautiful three cliffs holiday park. And I was very pleased to hear her standing strong for her constituents in terms of the inheritance tax, the pubs, Kings head, how beautiful, what an exciting week she has.

But of course focusing on the spirit of sport in Wales and particularly women sport, which is characteristic of her as well. My honourable friend from Chester South and Eddisbury spoke about her mum from Swansea first I did not know that. That's what about being in the chamber, particular on Thursday afternoon. And she's a new archer, and it reminded us all to be very careful of arrows. The honourable lady from Newport East rightly spoke about the rich heritage of steel and now silicon in her constituency.

And it reminds me of my rich heritage of being in Newport where I was getting a new passport, and that's why I got a tattoo to go with it. So I have part of Newport that is always carried with me. The honourable lady from and is more spoke importantly about the future for welfare and more lies. Really important for the honourable lady to be a champion for that sector and her constituency. Just like her predecessor. And in no doubt it's important to know the next steps in those sectors.

The Conservative government has always focused on Wales as I say. An additional £18 billion for Wales. And it's vital to remember the work that we did, and I know all the constituencies will have benefited from the support during COVID and the fellow scheme. It is why we can talk about those businesses and those opportunities for Wales. I recently had the opportunity to visit the Port Talbot steelworks to see what was happening just ahead of the forthcoming electric arc, which is exciting and very important times for that community.

And yesterday just met with S4 C in terms of the focus our party have had in terms of supporting the Welsh language act in 1993, and it was a pleasure to meet the team and hear about Welsh media. It's something that shaped my career as many people will know, and the vital importance of local production, local commissioning and opportunities right across Wales because of the media sector. And it would be remiss of me not to focus on some of the challenges as I say across Wales, including inalienable lady the Secretary of State opposite knows that I feel and my party feels very strongly that we need to Wales to have a Wales wide grooming gang enquiry, and I wondered if she can give any updates on that at the box today.

We conservatives, and when I was minister in the Wales Office along with Alun Cairns would were delighted to scrap the Severn Bridge tolls, which is a beast for investment and local people, and tourism and attractions are concerned about the tourism traps. I know I must close, but it's important that we do not devolve and forget when it comes to Wales, and as Conservatives believe in Wales. We always believe it's the right place to invest, live, work and visit.

Thank you. visit. Thank you.
16:51
Jo Stevens Portrait Rt Hon Jo Stevens MP, The Secretary of State for Wales (Cardiff East, Labour)
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Thank you. And may I also thank the backbench business committee for recognising the importance of allocating time to hold this debate on Wales and Welsh Affairs. I'd also like to thank my honourable friend is the members for Newport West and is loin and the chair and vice-chair of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee respectively for proposing today's motion. It's a real honour to be the first female labour Secretary of State for Wales and begin delivering this governance plan for change.

Across Wales and the whole of the UK, we will raise living standards, make our public services fit for the future, our streets safer, secure home clean energy, and ensure there is opportunity for all. That is the change that people in Wales, across Wales need. They deserve and they voted for seven months ago. When we took office, I was very clear that in the Wales Office my priorities include bringing investment to Wales to create well-paid jobs and economic growth. Protecting and defending our steel communities, and resetting the relationship between UK government and Welsh government said that it is one of trust, cooperation and mutual respect.

The past six months have already seen billions of pounds of investment committed and hundreds of jobs created, including at the port of Mostyn, and Evan holding, shop and mail and the ground has been laid for thousands more in advanced Manufacturing, renewable energy and other growth sectors. And just this week I announced a £600 million investment by Copenhagen infrastructure partners into Bute energy and onshore wind generation. That will create hundreds of new jobs. And contribute significantly to the UK government's clean power mission and their ambition to double onshore wind as well as the Welsh government's target for green electricity in Wales by 2035.

I will just carry on for a bit because we haven't got very much time left. We've given the green light for Welsh reports to unlock billions in private investment and galvanise almost 20,000 jobs in our core communities of Milford Haven, Port Talbot and Holyhead. Two investment zones in Wrexham and Flintshire and in Cardiff and Newport have been confirmed with £320 million of funding to support growth in key sectors of the economy to create those new jobs. We've also secured funding for local growth projects across Wales worth 440 million, including money for Cardiff crossrail and the recently opened Porth transport hub.

And we've protected key programs, important for local regeneration and economic growth like the or -- iconic Newbridge. We are continuing to invest throughout Wales with over £719 of UK Government funding through the city and regional growth deals. And unlike the last government, the Conservative government whose £22 billion in unfunded commitments left many Welsh levelling of developments at risk, our investment in these initiatives is an example of how our plan for change will lead to a decade of national renewal for people the length and breadth of Wales.

Wales now has the benefit of two Labour governments, committed to the regeneration and economic growth that will put more money in people's pockets, raising living standards. This is a partnership in power that will continue to deliver for the people of Wales. As with her this afternoon, the Welsh government had a record-breaking funding settlement from the UK government in the budget of £21 billion. With 1.7 million extra to spend on improving public services in Wales, and the Welsh has committed 600 million of that extra funding the Health and Social Care.

And I really welcome the recent news that waiting times in Wales are heading in the right direction. And do hope that both the Conservative members of the Senedd and the plight Camry members of the Senedd will reconsider their position on voting against the Welsh budget next week because they are sending the message

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that they don't want that extra investment public services in Wales. I will give way. I would ask it from the point of

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I would ask it from the point of your plight Camry, what she is doing to address the structural inequality of the 90 kingdom which her of the 90 kingdom which her government is maintaining in this partnership she talks about between Labour here in Westminster and Labour here in Westminster and Labour here in Cardiff. Because the funding inequality that doesn't recognise our needs are still

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remaining. Getting the right honourable lady

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Getting the right honourable lady has really listened to the list of things that have been announced for Wales in the last seven months was this is always the same with Plaid Cymru, it's not about the outcomes, not about the priorities of people of Wales. Turning now to steal,... I went afraid because he's had his speech. Turning now to steal, you may recall that on election day last year, Tarter was intending to shut down both its blast furnaces ending steelmaking at Port Talbot.

And again, unlike the last Tory government, who promised £18 of support that didn't exist, to Port Talbot, this government has secured £80 million of support, and we actually delivering that the steel communities right across South Wales. In just six months over £15 has been allocated to the transition board to help people and businesses, and this month I also announced the first regeneration project to be supported by £8.2 million of transition board funds. I mentioned earlier my priority to reset the relationship with Welsh government.

And since the election, people across Wales who have been able to see the results of that reset, significant inward investment, a record-breaking Welsh budget settlement. Investment zones, free ports, clean energy projects on and offshore. UK and Welsh governments working together and delivering for the people of Wales. On economic growth, clean energy, water regulation, health and plans for future rate improvement. And after years of deadlock, I'm not going to give way, after years of deadlock, it was this UK Government that stepped up with £25 million for the Welsh government to keep coal tips save, I think there are no better illustrations of the new relationship between the two governments that this cooperation on a matter that I know is of concern for people in former coalmining communities across Wales.

Today's debate has raised some important issues, and we had some excellent contributions from colleagues. I would just run through a few. For my honourable friend from Swansea East, whenever you hear the word Neath, I think Neath Neath Neath, the rugby chart, and that was definitely a Neath Neath Neath speech. The Member for Chester South and Eddisbury, I recognised having grown up very near to the border the economic cultural and personal ties that she described. My honourable friend from Newport East asked for a meeting with her colleagues to talk about Newport, and I'd be delighted to do that.

From Monmouthshire, the member talked about the 21st century schools program as did my honourable friend from Clwyd North. And my honourable friend from mum and -- Monmouthshire also paid tribute to the public sector workers. The Wrexham member, I was delighted to see Wrexham AFC promoted. I went to the game at Stockport at the end of the season, and having my time at the bottom of that Wrexham Lager as well for the iPhone from Cardiff West talked about the political DNA in his constituency and about Ely, where I recognised his descriptions of the sports club.

I've spent many weekends on the touchlines of pictures in Cardiff West, and it's great to see the club is going from strength to strength. My honourable friend from Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr gave a passionate speech about the history of his constituency, a constituency full of people with big hearts, and he's definitely got a big heart. From Mid and South Pembrokeshire, my friend mentioned his proud city of Saint Davids in his constituency and the £1 million regional skills fund that we have recently announced the Pembrokeshire.

I was very interested to hear mention of the honourable lady opposite of her Wine Street escapades. I was heads and faces welcome and maybe we should have a chat outside the chamber about that at some point. I would like to say to everybody, a very happy Saint David's day. Thank them for their contributions to this debate, and look forward to celebrating on Saturday. Saturday.
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Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones MP (Newport West and Islwyn, Labour)
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Thank you. I'm so proud to be able to bring this debate the chamber today to celebrate Saint Davids Day. And obviously great to be able to speak from the government benches for the first time. Following the victory at the general election, we now have a new partnership with Welsh government based on respect, trust and delivery. And of these warm words are matched with actions foster we know the record of the £21 billion and goes from the Chancellor to the Welsh government to support public services and infrastructure across Wales.

I want to thank all members for their contributions. The honourable lady opposite, she mentioned so many of them, as did the second state, so I won't go through them. But it's great to welcome so many New Labour colleagues to this chamber, to look forward to watching them grow and develop in the coming years. And finally, can I wish you and all members present here today... My pick to move that the House do now adjourn. The question is that this House do now adjourn.



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Thank you. It is a pleasure to be in the chamber to discuss an issue that many of my constituents as well that many of my constituents as well as other constituents across the country care so deeply about. Football. I am grateful that the Minister took her place to respond Minister took her place to respond Table for her steadfast commitment for bringing in the Football Governance Bill. I know she cares deeply about the future of our nation's favourite game and is heavily invested in its future.

I would also like to thank various football clubs and organisations and supporters who have contacted me to tell about their positive and negative stories about what is happening in their communities. I am blessed that in my constituency we have several excellent football clubs. But today I will be speaking directly to the contributing to our community. They attract local fans cogenerate taken sales, Food & Drink and mentioned ice and parking fees.
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Chris Bloore Portrait Adjournment: Economic contribution of non-league football clubs Chris Bloore MP (Redditch, Labour)
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million and will be value stop just from 10 full-time staff and 50 part-time staff. These numbers will make any local authority, public

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health unit, or Government scheme, blush in their effectiveness. Of course. Thank my honourable friend forgiving way. You will notice that I found Mike Harlow town FC badge for this particular debate and I for this particular debate and I welcome the importance he is putting on the football. But he agreed with on the football. But he agreed with me that it is not just the small. Staff members of these clubs but also the huge number of volunteers. Particularly attributable to a Welsh Particularly attributable to a Welsh lady who is our secretary, Donna Harvey, at this moment.

But actually it is about such a community feel

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that brings people together that makes our football so special. Thank you. The honourable member

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Thank you. The honourable member is absolutely right to point to the incredible impact of volunteers in incredible impact of volunteers in our local football clubs, despite the professions of above clubs in the recent years. They would not exist if it was not for volunteers exist if it was not for volunteers like your constituent. League football is often more reformed, affordable for France, allowing greater access to entertainment for greater access to entertainment for people in the local community. The relatively low cost of attending matches means that more people can matches means that more people can engage with sport and participate in local economic activity surrounding their home ground.

United charges £123 for a season ticket and crowds have travelled in the last five yes. More and more. Thank you. More and more local boys and girls are building an affinity with the local club and local businesses and benefiting. United have nearly 400 youth players visiting the ground every week, five volunteers, over 100 five volunteers, over 105 and 60 community participants. The economic footprint of their daily training sessions has been significant, from our petrol stations to bus companies to local shops and export strings and water to the parents fuel and children before they play.

Engagement provides a wide range of benefits to individuals. The Football Association credits with creating 172 hours of social interactions, generating 187,000 with creating 172 hours of social interactions, generating £187,000 of playable being value and £1.8 billion in value generated for volunteering hours. I will of course.

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I thank my honourable friend from Redditch forgiving way. I think that Redditch forgiving way. I think that when he talks about the wider impact on football clubs I think one of the on football clubs I think one of the things that can be missed and it is really important that we recognise the economic value, I am really blessed to have two football clubs, blessed to have two football clubs, step five and step four, who can forget Chase towns giantkilling exploits in the FA Cup a few years ago? The sense of achievement and the sense of togetherness that brought to the entire town is something so difficult to replicate.

Does he agree with me that sometimes whilst it is really important to recognise the economic value that social value of the togetherness and the, Rhodri, the civic mindedness supporting these clubs is so

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important. I think you for your

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I think you for your contribution. And I should have sent in my speech beforehand because I will get onto that and I agree, it is not just economic value that the cubs give to their communities. cubs give to their communities. United have been at the forefront of B and mental health campaigns and many volunteers have gone on to work in the game, become accredited coaches, or some people to have the coaches, or some people to have the confidence to get back to paid work after a lengthy absence.

I recently attended a walking football event at attended a walking football event at the stadium and it was to see senior members more still active and those that felt they had a community to be proud of. Football is also a tool to commit partnership that sometimes local and national Governments cannot make. Redditch United has signed a sponsorship deal with the giants ready, stemming from a post on their site. Have to admit to being a little overwhelmed at the site of the directors arriving for the United States to walk around the stadium and visit our town to cheer on the reds.

But United do even more but of the designer Kit campaign has been launched for a second year, engaging local schoolchildren. The club is working to make the fan base more diverse and working in schools, hosting employment talks, mock interviews, sports delivery, work experience, working with local universities and colleges stop and it is now used by the college for sports provision. Helping young people into jobs that pay taxes that will help us build our public services and the public finances on a solid footing once again.

There are 100 businesses to network with and yes they are creating the next generation of male and female footballers that I hope will put them up the pyramid and train the next generation of coaches. There are also the home for Albion's ladies team. Yet despite this incredible work and its proven benefits to the economy and community, the challenges facing the football clubs are still significant. It is getting harder, not easier, for nonleague clubs to be sustainable, and their contribution is at risk.

Due to limited revenue streams, nonleague clubs often face financial struggles and may struggle to maintain infrastructure to pay players and compete with larger clubs. Sometimes promotion can even bring challenges of being placed in a geographically challenging leak, making it difficult to attract players, and in some cases relegation is followed promotion. Last night I had the chance to speak with Ellis Platinum, the creator of waders YouTube channel who has done an excellent job of not just the impact on the fan base but the community were the local club it's tough times.

From Durham city is run to Celtic's playing their home games miles away from their home ground, these stories are not uncommon. 10% of teams in Redditch lead from last year are not in existence anymore. The economic footprint and social impact have been immediately lost and there's nothing to replace them. There are no billionaires interested in these clubs, so leagues simply collapse. Accusing a major high street retailer with the knock on impact on the local economy can be catastrophic but we know it is not just the economic benefits that are lost, although work and the heart of our communities is lost also.

If Redditch United were to shut its doors, we would lose so much more than just a team. Despite the excellent work of the Football Foundation to support toxic Redditch United to improve local football facilities the balance between being a community asset and maintaining financial stability can be challenging for these clubs and to many towns are losing. Trickle-down

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economics. Of course. I think the honourable gentleman forgiving way. Usually when I forgiving way. Usually when I mention football in this chamber it is a reference to Grimsby town, but on this occasion, Dexter boundary changes, I have now got town FC which is a community interest club which is a community interest club and I went to one of their matches if you do is ago and what he is saying other memos have drawn attention to the important part that they play in the local community.

they play in the local community. But they also, of course, when it comes to financing, they do encourage local businesses into sponsorship. And with the honourable gentleman agree with me that it is a

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vital source of income also to nonleague clubs? Thank you. The honourable gentleman is absolutely right. Redditch netted would not be in existence if it was not for the support of local businesses in support of local businesses in Redditch and the villages and where extremely appreciative of the sponsorship it is if some of them are watching this we hope that they renew their sponsorship agreements for the next 12 months. Trickle-down for the next 12 months. Trickle-down economics in the football pyramid simply does not work.

Not speaking in cash terms. It can be difficult in cash terms. It can be difficult for nonleague clubs to approach them for support or involving them in long-term strategic health and long-term strategic health and leisure decision taking. Many transport groups that several grants have been lost and whilst Premier League championship may receive some evidence about making their grounds

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accessible, the same does not apply to many nonleague clubs due to lack of funds and expertise and town halls. Of course. Thank you for giving way and for giving us the opportunity for giving us the opportunity for talking about our nonleague football clubs such as Millfield town FC and clubs such as Millfield town FC and I would just like to pay tribute to the community work that they do. Does he agree that one of the Does he agree that one of the challenges that many clubs face is fighting the funding to bring on more women and girls teams investing more women and girls teams investing in infrastructure and the same applies to disability teams.

This, in itself, can be a barrier to accessing wider funding. Believe that he knows both football clubs well. Does he share my hope that they will find that investment?

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Thank you to that number for Birmingham for his contribution. As a goalkeeper I let many goals in a goalkeeper I let many goals in against Horsfield FC, so I offer my contribution to his constituency. contribution to his constituency. But he is absolutely right. I was But he is absolutely right. I was fortunate to bring the chairman into the Houses of Parliament to meet with the chairman of the FA and he with the chairman of the FA and he made it very clear that there is not the money available at the moment to build those into structure build those into structure facilities for girls and for women and it is putting off participation, so we must do more to be able to build that infrastructure and those facilities in our communities.

Nonleague football clubs are ideally placed to support this government's commitment to growth and the regeneration of our town centres. Building a transport network for skills and education and critically reduce the burden on NHS by promoting participation. The economic impact of football clubs is multifaceted. They contribute to local employment, business revenues and social programs, whilst their financial reach is smaller than their Premier Football League teams rivals there influencing Nicola ships local economies and fosters community cohesion and pride. Redditch has 500 players, but only 20 of them are in the men's first team.

If a booklet is more than what happens on a Saturday afternoon. We need to talk about clubs, not just teams, as the impact of closely credit United is more than just their place in the football pyramid because when their loss, the benefits to the economy and our society are lost also. Not every nonleague club has a Ryan Reynolds or Rob Michael Honey and accompanied Disney plus TV show. Wish that they did because if we learned anything from that story we would know that when a football club has the means to be successful it can rejuvenate a tie town.

This brings confidence and pride. It was not smiling and the money and investment that follows

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not just into the football club the city and regional infrastructure. Of course.

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Of course. Cute forgiving and I congratulate the honourable gentleman in securing such an important and be debate such an important and be debate celebrating the immense value on our local clubs. And I also want to commend the mention of women and girls. I used to play football myself for a team. I wanted to talk about time with MC because my local chairman contacted me about the chairman contacted me about the three up campaign which is pushing for an extra promotional place for the National League to the EFL which would provide more ambition for clubs, provide information for fans, and crucially would ensure that any flows from the top right of the game to our lower nonleague clubs.

Would my honourable gentleman agree with me that we need to support initiatives like this to ensure that clubs and local economies benefit?

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Thank you. And thank you to the honourable member Fred Thomas about competition, more relegation, I competition, more relegation, I certainly agree the support of the campaign. Although I focused on campaign. Although I focused on British United and am proud of the team is doing on and off the pitch, I know the excellent work they do, I know the excellent work they do, despite the extreme challenges is being repeated up and down the country by staff and volunteers country by staff and volunteers nationwide.

There are not asking for a handout, just the respect and support that they deserve. Whilst I welcome the Government and their welcome the Government and their support I hope that the Government with the bill when it is possible be able to work with the Football Association, local authorities and nonleague clubs, to review the sustainability of nonleague football and crucially the opportunities for growth via nonleague clubs. Such a review of this for clubs, including step two would allow us to recognise what support they need and how we could fairly ensure the riches of our game make it down to the real grassroots.

There is more that we can do with local authorities to ensure transport links support the growth of clubs and encourage more fans to attend. We can help local authorities recognise the club's importance and provide guidance and strategic planning, including the benefits of working alongside clubs and leisure, education and economic priorities. Finally, crucially, we need to offer the same Government supported nonleague clubs, there are nations in the communities to ensure we reduce the number of clubs. Drop-down divisions because they do not have the liquidity to continue their operations at the highest level.

Securing future prosperity of nonleague clubs can benefit many Ministers sitting around the Cabinet table. I am unashamedly passionate as a football fan but my passion for nonleague football and my team is not just about what happens on the pitch for 90 minutes. Nonleague football clubs are often secure as of our local economies, they not only put millions into our economy but provide jobs, the basic critical education, social programs, help get them back into what and support facilities for thousands of boys and girls every week to stay fit and healthy.

Hope that this Parliament will be able to investing at how we can use tools available in this House to support them. A local economies that they rely on and the communities that love them. Finally, I would like to pay tribute day Faulkner, his staff, and the bounteous that have made Redditch United more than just a football

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English Football League is one of our greatest exports, which this
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Stephanie Peacock Portrait Stephanie Peacock MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) (Barnsley South, Labour)
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our greatest exports, which this government wants to see thrive for generations to come. I'd like to begin by thanking my honourable friend the Member for Redditch for his speech and for highlighting the impact of clubs like Redditch United in his constituency to local communities. And indeed we've heard from members across the House about the huge impact nonleague clubs have to their areas. English Football League is a fantastic local success story, and of course it all begins and wouldn't be possible without grassroots football.

During this debate, I'd like to speak about the important contribution that football and the sporting sector makes to our economy, and he communities up and down the country. In October last year, DCMS published new research measuring the impact of the sport and physical activity sector on the economy. The research DCMS published showed that the sector contributed £53.6 billion to the UK economy in 2021. This means the sector was worth over 2.6% of the U.K.'s economy. That same year, 878,000 people on full-time contracts were employed in the sector.

One of the reasons the sports economy such a significant proportion of the total economy is because of our footballing sector. The same research showed that football throughout the whole pyramid, including professional and grassroots football as well as football's indirect impact on the economy at large generated £8.71 billion for the economy. This research did not even measure the societal benefits of actually playing grassroots football, which I will touch on later. The clubs deliver significant economic benefits to their local economies, but they also deliver indirect economic benefits to the local communities they serve, attracting visitors and bringing increased footfall to the hospitality, retail and transport sectors.

The government wants a thriving grassroots sport sector with a strong national governing body, including the FA back and use their nationwide remit to deliver support to people across the country. DCMS provides the majority of support for grassroots sport through our arm's- length bodies Sport England, which annually invest 250 many pounds of lottery and Exchequer money. The FA as a long-term partner of Sport England. Sporting and is investing £26.1 million into the FA for the period of 2022 /27. As a government we understand the value of grassroots sports facilities, which is why we are delivering the Multi- Sport Grassroots Facilities Programme which is investing £123 million of UK-wide funding throughout 24/25.

This is helping to fund a total of 559 projects across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland so far this year. Projects funded through this program include new artificial grass pitches, new changing pavilions and clubhouses, floodlights, fencing, pitch maintenance, equipment and goalposts. It was great to attend the Chorley women versus AFC filed match a few weeks ago. As part of the Premier Leagues more than a game Trophy tour. And to see the impact of this funding first hand with the improvements to their facilities. Following the Autumn Budget, the government confirmed its continued support for elite and grassroots sport through future investment.

Further details of this investment will be confirmed in due course. Now my honourable friend the Member for Redditch raised the issue of ensuring transport links to support the growth of clubs. I agree with my honourable friend we all need to play our part supporting the case for our local clubs to be well surfaced. I'm engaging colleagues across government on how we can improve public transport access to and from sporting events. As I know this is an issue of interest and concern for colleagues across the House.

My honourable friend for Redditch also raised government support the nonleague clubs. The revised code for sports governance sets out the levels of transparency, diversity and inclusion, accountability and integrity that are required from the FA and other organisations who seek and are in receipt of public National Lottery funding. Any government concerns regarding nonleague club should be raised with the FA through their own complaints procedure. Sporting and oversee the FA's compliance with the code, and any concerns about the governance to the FA should be raised with Sport England.

And that's why it's important that the support for grassroots football continues into the future because of the influence of nonleague football extending far beyond purely economic impact. Now nonleague fiddle clubs have an important part to play in delivering wider societal benefits, fostering social cohesion and building a strong sense of local identity. Clubs often engage in community initiatives and contribute to civic identity and pride of place. They run extensive outreach programs, volunteer initiatives and youth development schemes that offer safe spaces and education opportunities to local residents.

I've seen that first hand in my own constituency of Barnsley South, having visited clubs including one Motown, one more wine and bridge athletic as well as the work they've done with holy Trinity primary Academy, reviving their playing field. I know the huge role community clubs play in my own area of Barnsley and across the country. Now an FA study from 2019 showed that the value of regular grassroots football in England was over £10 billion per year. This consisted of a directly? Value of just over £2 billion per year and a social well- being value of over £1 billion per year.

The FA study also showed that playing regular grassroots football saves the NHS over £43 million per year through reduced GP visits. It was great to attend the FA's made for this game event in Parliament this week as part of their campaign to empower girls in schools across the country to get involved in sport, no matter their age, role, ability, race, religion or ethnicity. And am looking forward to supporting the FA's campaign next Friday closer to home in Barnsley for their fourth annual biggest ever civil session.

It's great to see the FA's target of equal access to football for girls is 75% of schools has been met, but we are committed to going further. This government believes that every girl deserves the opportunity to get involved in whatever sport they choose because we know the power of the book clubs from nonleague clubs to professional clubs and getting people active and to bring communities together. Nonleague clubs also bring about significant economic benefits and are an essential part of the social fabric of our country.

It's also right that we thank the thousands of volunteers give up their time to support their local nonleague clubs without them, clubs simply wouldn't survive, and the honourable member rightly paid a tribute to the contribution of volunteers. So enclosing this debate, it's been a bring opportunity to discuss that you can contribution of nonlethal clocks. As I've set out, footballers in sport make a hugely important economic contribution to our economy and country. This is exactly what the government supports nonleague and grassroots football and I once again thank my honourable friend for tabling today's debate.



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The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion say, "Aye." Of the contrary, "No." The ayes have it,
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None Portrait Q1. If she will make an assessment of recent trends in the gross value added of the video games industry. (902897)
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Question number one. We recognise recent challenges

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We recognise recent challenges for the industry and we are continuing our support with the videogames expenditure credit
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None Portrait Q3. What assessment her Department has made of the potential impact of the cost of electronic travel authorisations on inbound tourism. (902900)
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Number three.
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None Portrait Q6. What steps her Department has taken to help support creative industries in Loughborough constituency. (902904)
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Question number six Mr Speaker.
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None Portrait Q9. What steps her Department is taking to support small theatres and performing arts venues. (902907)
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Number nine Mr Speaker.
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None Portrait Q10. Whether her Department plans to commemorate the 75th anniversary of Formula 1. (902908)
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Number 10.
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None Portrait Topical questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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Number one.
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None Portrait Speaker's Statement
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Question number one.
This debate has concluded
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