Commons Chamber

Wednesday 25th February 2026

(began 3 weeks ago)

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None Portrait Q3. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to support jobs in the defence manufacturing sector in Scotland. (907994)
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secure at home and strong abroad just last week. As has already been referenced, I visited Australia,
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Kemi Badenoch Portrait Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr. speaker, I am amazed that while we're trying to talk about student loans, the Prime Minister student loans, the Prime Minister has the cheek to talk about my party being smaller. His party is smaller too, including one MP who smaller too, including one MP who was arrested for child sex offences. So perhaps before he gets on his high horse, he should ask why his backbenchers are saying that they're being called the Paedo Defenders party. Yes. I didn't say it.

I didn't say it. I know, I know, it makes them.

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Yes. Call it. OK, let's have less Kemi

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Badenoch. I know they don't like it. Mr. speaker.

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Mr. speaker. Does the hon. Member want to leave at this stage? Just leave at this stage? Just understand. I want to hear the question because it's very important that I do here, because I'm going to have to make a

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I'm going to have to make a judgement. So I don't need any more shouting. Amen. I know they don't like it, Mr. Speaker, but I haven't said anything. That's not true, have I? So perhaps. Yes. So perhaps they should get off their high horse. Stop making stupid jokes. And why don't we talk about student loans?

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Yeah. Policies that may have been fine for 2012 with low interest rates for 2012 with low interest rates are not fine for 2026. The fact is, are not fine for 2026. The fact is, graduates are paying more, not less. On Monday, the schools Minister was On Monday, the schools Minister was asked on the BBC why Labour froze the repayment thresholds. She said the government has, and I quote, huge pressures. Those pressures have been created by his taxes and his borrowing to pay for more welfare.

Why is the Prime Minister taking from students to give to Benefit Street?
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Kemi Badenoch Portrait Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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those policies. >> And it goes for the role as well. Chair, Select Committee, I expect

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to set a standard not to shout somebody down. Mr. speaker.

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I don't need any backchat. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He's only talking about student loans now because I raised it. He says they're fixing the problem. The fact is, he's not. Why is it that I'm willing to ditch old conservative policies that don't work, and he wants to keep them? He's not going to do anything about it at all. On Monday, they voted to increase benefits yet again. The fact is, he is taking money out of the pockets of graduates and giving it to people who are not working.

It is not fair. It is not just that he is saddling graduates with debt. It's not just that he is saddling graduates with debt. Yesterday, the Bank of England, the Bank of England. Yes. Where she used to work in customer services. Yesterday, the Bank of England. Yesterday. Mr. speaker, the Bank of England said that his policies are fuelling youth unemployment. That's not us. That's the Bank of England. For the first time ever, youth unemployment is now higher here than it is in the EU.

And while he blames everyone else, our young people can't get jobs. They are

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losing hope and even leaving the country. Will the Prime Minister tell us how he plans to deal with it? Yeah.

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Yeah. Prime Minister. Speaker, she said she's ditched ditching failed Tory policies. It's ditching failed Tory policies. It's a very long list. 14 years of list. And it starts with the word sorry. And when she says that word, we'll take her seriously, Mr. Speaker.
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if she will make a statement on the Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territories
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Mr Speaker.
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Hamish Falconer Portrait Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
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Been, and. the military base on Diego Garcia. It is a base critical for our national security and helping to keep the British people safe. It is a key strategic military asset for both the United Kingdom and the United States. It has enabled our shared security for nearly 60 years. When we came into government, it was clear that our ability to maintain our interest and control in the base was under threat. So this government had to take action to protect our military advantage and to stop our adversaries gaining a hold in such a strategically important part of the world, refusing to act Mr Speaker could have exposed one of our most valuable military assets to China.

So, like any responsible government would, we negotiated a deal to protect our interests. This government inherited a situation where the operation of the base was in immediate jeopardy, and negotiations on a transfer of sovereignty to Mauritius was well advanced by the previous government. The deal delivers on our objective of maintaining the secure, effective operation of this vital military base. It would allow us to operate this joint UK US base as we have always done. Mr.

speaker, this House knows that the government worked tirelessly with the United States in developing and testing the treaty to ensure that it met our shared security needs. That is why it was supported by two administrations. This is why Secretaries Rubio and Hegseth, and indeed President Trump himself came out so strongly in favour when the treaty was signed in May last year. I can assure this House nothing in the treaty has changed since the US administration gave their original endorsement of the deal, and we continue to work with Mauritius and the United States.

Mr. speaker, the UK government has great sympathy for the community. They feel a deep emotional connection with these islands. We have been clear in our regret for the manner in which Chagossians were forcibly removed from the islands in the 60s and the 70s. We are working to resume a programme of heritage visits for members of that community. Mr. speaker, we will continue to work with both Mauritius and the United States on this agreement. As the Prime Minister has said, we have very close relations with the United States.

That relationship matters profoundly, not just to our security, but to the prosperity and the stability that people here at home depend.
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Nigel Farage Portrait Nigel Farage MP (Clacton, Reform UK)
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Frost. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, the situation in America has Well, the situation in America has changed. As you know, the British government went around America and said a whole load of things such as it was legally necessary to give away the Chagos Islands, which of course wasn't true. Do not give away Diego Garcia. Capital letters from the American president. He likes capital letters in his posts, and all the other arguments have been well rehearsed. The fact that it could cost us up to 50 billion, the fact that the Chagossians weren't just badly treated then, they're being badly treated now because they've resettled and they've got eviction notices from your government.

But I can tell you this from my trip to the Maldives at the weekend, something I hadn't realised. And I don't know whether the government knows it either. It is the Maldives that has the historical links with the Chagos Islands, both in terms of trade, in terms of archaeology. In fact, the islands all the French did was rename the islands from the Maldivian language. There is no basis historically, culturally in any way for Mauritius to have a claim on those islands.

And the Maldives are upset for two reasons one, there has been great stability in this region for decades. And what happens with this treaty if it goes through, is you finish up with a turf war going on between India and China in the region, and that indeed has already started. And I wish to inform the government that we are just a few days away, in my opinion, from the Maldives. Issuing a counterclaim to the International Court of Justice to say if anybody has the right to the sovereignty of those islands, it is the Maldives and not Mauritius.

And I would urge you to pause all of this.

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Minister. Mr. speaker, the hon. Member for

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Mr. speaker, the hon. Member for Clacton suggests that we have gone around the American government. I have set out already in my response have set out already in my response the extensive talks that we have had with both secretaries and indeed the president of the United indeed the president of the United States within recent months on this question. There is no question of going around the US government. The going around the US government. The member, the hon. Member says, well, what has changed? Clearly, the view of the United States President may well have changed, but the treaty has not.

We have discussed this treaty in great detail in this House. It is a treaty that emerges from talks initiated by the previous government and completed. I would. Mr. speaker, I would find it more plausible to hear chuntering from the benches on the other side from me. Were I not a diplomat in the Foreign Office during the period they were negotiating this deal for 11 rounds? I understand I do understand that the members opposite, honourable and Right honourable, wish to now distance themselves from the 11 rounds that they conducted.

But let us at least order.

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No one of us is sitting down. It's not. We. Look, people have put It's not. We. Look, people have put a UQ in others. Members of this. I want to hear it. I want to hear it. I expect them to hear it. I expect

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I expect them to hear it. I expect them to hear it in silence. Mr. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Returning to the substance.

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Of the hon. Member's question, I would just like to remind him that if he turned up with a selfie stick to RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire, to RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire, a similarly sensitive military base, he would be turned away. I do not understand his surprise or those who travelled with him, that when you sought over the weekend to film a video on a sensitive military site under the control of the UK, it is part of the. It is part of the British Indian Overseas territories, as you know, and I

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would encourage the hon. Member and indeed every member of the public to check British traveller. Order. Order, order!

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Order, order! You keep saying you. I am absolutely not responsible about this film. You are the involvement.

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this film. You are the involvement. Please. I'm being drawn into something I don't wish to be at this stage. Mr. speaker, I can only

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Mr. speaker, I can only apologise. We not seek to draw you into such a flagrant instance of ignoring travel advice that the treaty is as it was signed. It is going through both houses of Parliament. We are discussing this with our American colleagues. The fact that the hon. Member sought to take a selfie video on the islands does not change any of those facts.
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Wendy Morton Portrait Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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Mr. UK government will abide by international law and will continue to do so. >> The Minister Wendy Morton. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Labour's Chagos surrender is a shameful, unnecessary and reckless deal that leaves Britain weaker, deal that leaves Britain weaker, poorer and less secure. This is not a legal necessity. It is a political choice made by a floundering Prime Minister. And it is British taxpayers who are left to pay the price. No other government would pay £35 billion to hand over its own sovereign territory and make its country less secure in the process, at a time when families are being squeezed, Ministers are asking them to subsidise another country's Budget, potentially funding tax cuts in Mauritius while taxes rise here at home.

That is indefensible. So can the Minister confirm that no payments will be made under the treaty of the so-called Strategic Partnership, unless and until ratification is fully complete? Because. This is a national security crisis. Two Diego Garcia is one of the most strategically vital military bases in the world, and yet Ministers are pressing ahead before resolving the binding. 1966 UK US treaty before addressing concerns raised by President Trump and without guaranteeing that the lease can can never collapse or be legally challenged on Unclass, will he confirm that article 298 provides an opt out from compulsory dispute settlement for military activities? Meaning this can, this can.

This is a political choice, not an unavoidable legal trap. So I ask the government, will they suspend the bill until the legal position with the US is settled and any amendments have been scrutinised under Crag? Will he confirm whether the Pelindaba treaty would apply were Mauritius to take sovereignty, and, if so, what ironclad safeguards protect our nuclear deterrent? And finally, what of the British Chagossians, some of them now on the islands? Can he guarantee there will be no forced removal and that their rights will be protected in full? Mr.

speaker, British sovereignty is not for sale and this House should not be bounced into surrendering it.
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Al Pinkerton Portrait Dr Al Pinkerton MP (Surrey Heath, Liberal Democrat)
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Gloucester Al Pinkerton, Liberal Democrat spokesperson. acutely aware that this question comes in the aftermath of the hon. Member for Clacton attempted landing on the Chagos Archipelago last week, and whilst I might admire the hon. Member's audacity, I am deeply concerned that those actions trivialise what is indeed a deeply serious situation and potentially render the genuine grievances and injustices that Chagossians feel as a political backdrop to his social media feed. But I also have to acknowledge that the platform that the hon.

Member has has only been created because of a vacuum that has been created by this government, because the wheels have undoubtedly fallen off. The government's negotiations, they failed to secure the support and consent of Chagossians. They seem now also to have lost the support of the president of the United States. And whilst any one of those things might be considered unfortunate, the combination of the two of them looks deeply careless. So can I ask the Minister, please, what is the status of the negotiations right now? What is the latest position of the United States? Will they also take on our very long standing concerns about the rights of Chagossians? There is clearly not widespread consent here.

Will they take on the points that we've been making in amendment after amendment, and recognise that Chagossians have the right to self determine their own future? And can he also accept our concerns about the finances to ensure that Britain isn't left as a leaseholder of these islands? If a deal goes ahead without a sitting tenant Minister?
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department to make a statement on the impact of the UK’s Electronic Travel Authorisation rules on British citizens who are also dual nationals
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Right. citizens who are also dual nationals. Manuela Perteghella to ask the Secretary of State for Home Department to make a statement on the impact of the UK's electronic travel authorisation rules on British citizens who are also dual nationals. Minister.
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Mike Tapp Portrait Mike Tapp MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Dover and Deal, Labour)
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank her for her urgent question. The introduction of electronic travel authorisations, or ETAs as they're known, is part of plans to modernise and digitise the UK's border and immigration system by providing a much clearer picture of who intends to travel to the UK for shorter periods. ETAs will enable a more targeted approach to border control, strengthening security and ensuring a smoother travel experience. From today, carriers will check that eligible passengers hold an ETA before travelling to the UK, and will deny boarding to those who do not hold the correct permissions.

British citizens Madam Deputy Speaker, including those who hold dual nationality, do not need and are not eligible for an ETA. They must travel with a valid British passport or another passport endorsed with a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode, known as a Co. Since the outset of this scheme, the Home Office has embedded clear messaging for dual nationals across the ETA communications campaign and published comprehensive guidance on Gov.uk, setting out clearly what dual citizens need to do. Since 2024, we have provided explicit written and spoken guidance to people who naturalise or register as British citizens, including through their application at and at citizenship ceremonies.

And since the start of the year, we have also emailed people who have registered or naturalised in the last ten years where we hold usable contact details in order to support British nationals overseas, and particularly those who have not held a passport for some time or have never held one, the Home Office has placed put in place temporary mitigating measures. These include issuing issuing temporary operational guidance to carriers, confirming that they may, at their discretion, accept an unexpired UK passport issued in 1989 or later, alongside a valid Non-visa National third country passport carriers may also choose to accept alternative evidence and can contact the Home Office's Carrier Support Hub, who may be able to confirm British citizenship.

For those with a digital record on the UK's immigration and passport system, it is not the intention of the ETA scheme to penalise our citizens who choose to live abroad. This is why we have given as much time as possible to allow passengers in this position to make the necessary arrangements, and why we have now put in place additional short term measures to assist our nationals when travelling to the UK. I'll finish by noting that the approach we have taken is comparable to that taken by many of our closest international partners, including the USA, Canada and Australia, who have already introduced similar systems.

For example, the Esta for visitors to the United States. And we also expect the EU to launch their own version. We are doing these checks to ensure illegal migrants and foreign criminals cannot set foot here through our ports and borders, by screening them before they travel. I am delivering a more secure, modern border.
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Manuela Perteghella Portrait Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)
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Manuela Perteghella. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I would like to begin by declaring my interest as a British dual national and chair of the APPG for Citizens Rights. From today, British citizens are at risk of being prevented from returning to their own country because of the government's mishandling of the Electronic Travel Authorisation Scheme. British dual nationals cannot apply for an ETA. They do not have any visa, so unless they hold a valid British passport, they must produce a certificate of entitlement costing £589.

That simply to prove that you are British, compared to £16 for a tourist. Carriers face 2000 fines, so it's not good that discretion is left to them because the result is chaos. For law abiding British citizens and families will be separated. Communication has been wholly inadequate. Putin guidance on a website is not a communications strategy. I understand that people who recently naturalised were not warned in their grant letters or at their ceremonies, and there have been no clear messages at the border.

When Canada introduced a similar scheme, it delayed enforcement and created a low cost temporary authorisation. And it worked. Why has this government refused to adopt the same common sense approach? I'm asking the Minister will the government now postpone enforcement to prevent British citizens being wrongly denied boarding? Will the government introduce a low cost, one off travel authorisation like Canada did for dual nationals whose citizenship can easily be verified? And will the government ensure urgent help through consulates? I commissions and the Ukvi helpline.

These are British citizens who have followed the rules. They deserve better than confusion, silence and a 589 bill simply to come home.
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Mike Tapp Portrait Mike Tapp MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Dover and Deal, Labour)
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Yes, Minister. Member for her urgent question and response to my answer. I'm clear there has been absolutely no mishandling from the Home Office on this important issue. As I said in my speech, this has been on the government website since 2024. We've also spent significant sums of money getting this message out there, including through the relevant media and through communications to those who are naturalised over the last decade. Communications. As we all know in this place, Madam Deputy Speaker can be difficult.

And of course some people can be missed. I myself have been on Australian television to ensure that I've worked as hard as I can to get this message out there. You're right. She's right in saying that the ETA is not eligible, and that is due to the Home Secretary's power to grant an ETA deriving from the immigration rules, which do not apply to British citizens. A passport is £100. The turnaround times that we're seeing after the increase in demand is well within the limits that we expect, taking four weeks for those who are applying from outside of the country, and the average being around nine days.

So the turnaround time is fast. They can also apply for an ETA. Excuse me. Also apply for an emergency travel document in extreme circumstances, and those turnaround times can be as quick as just two days. There's also transitional methods in place, such as expired passports that were issued after 1989, and there has been significant communication and advice given to carriers, including myself, meeting with many of them to ensure they fully understand the new measures that are in place.

The carrier support line is also active, and anyone who may be encountering any issues can make contact through that. It's important that we introduce these measures. These measures are modernising. They're making our border more secure. They're very much in line with what other nations are doing. I do have sympathy for those that may be encountering issues. On Monday next week, I will be holding drop in sessions for all members of Parliament and those with specific cases, which of course on the floor of the House.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I wouldn't want to go into too much detail on can then visit there. Thank you.
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Alicia Kearns Portrait Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)
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Shadow Minister. The ETA scheme was introduced by the conservative government to secure and modernise Britain's borders. Under the previous system, someone holding a passport from a non-visa nation could enter the UK for six months with minimal formality. That left the Home Office unable to distinguish between a genuine British citizen travelling on a foreign passport and someone who had simply overstayed. These changes strengthen our borders, and the Liberal Democrats suggestion that three years notice is somehow insufficient, I am afraid, is not serious policy making.

Most immigration and border changes take effect within months. Tax changes happen within a single Budget cycle. A three year transition for a documentation requirement is not unreasonable. This change does not remove rights. It does not strip anyone of citizenship. It concerns the evidence required when travelling. People have known since 2023 that change was coming, and therefore this is not a radical change. Citizens carry citizenship, carries rights, but it also carries responsibilities. Maintaining appropriate documentation is one of them.

If the Liberal Democrats wish to argue for weaker evidential standards, the border, they should do so plainly. What they should not do is pretend that three years notice is somehow an injustice. Now, turning to practical questions, the Minister has set out what plans there are contingency plans to support those dual nationals. But can the Minister confirm that consular services within the Foreign Office will be properly resourced to support individuals? Will he also commit, however, to improve the communications plan, which has been insufficient? I note that ahead of today, there has been no communications on his Twitter account when normally he is so busy creating Twitter videos that he believes may or may not go viral.

I also understand some airlines are expecting expired British passports issued since 1989, but can the Minister confirm whether this will become a consistent approach across all airlines? Because that is the minimum expectation that the government should be putting in place with them. Can the Minister also finally confirm what specific efforts have been made to ensure those serving under the King's colours, if deployed abroad, will have no issues coming home? We on this side support robust improvements to make sure we have enforceable borders.
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Steve Reed Portrait Rt Hon Steve Reed MP, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Streatham and Croydon North, Labour )
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Thank you, Madam. by acknowledging the presence of survivors and relatives of those who died at Grenfell Grenfell with us here in the galleries today. They have the deepest sympathies of the whole House and our most profound respect. The fire, Grenfell Tower, that claimed 72 innocent lives was a terrible moment in British history. We will not forget what happened that night. We must make sure that nothing like it can ever happen again.

The government accepted all the Grenfell Tower Inquiry's findings and committed to implementing all 58 recommendations. Everyone deserves a safe, decent home. This requires a new culture of transparency and accountability. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, today I can report that we are on target to complete 70% of the inquiry's recommendations by the end of the current year. Since the inquiry published its final report, we've completed ten recommendations from phase two and two outstanding phase one recommendations. Today, I will set out the progress we've made on reforming the construction industry, strengthening fire and rescue services, and improving support for vulnerable people.

We will complete all the remaining recommendations during this Parliament. We are also publishing the Construction Products Reform White Paper, building on the proposals we set out in December for a new single construction regulator. Our work goes beyond the specific inquiry recommendations because we are determined to secure lasting change across the whole system. Last summer we made sure that building safety regulator had the leadership it needs to do its job well. Lord Rowe reformed the London Fire Brigade Brigade and is bringing the same determination to making the BSR work.

Over time, the BSR will evolve into the regulator, the inquiry recommended. We are consulting on that today. We will replace fragmented regulation with clear accountability. Everyone will understand their role and the standards that are expected of them. We have already made changes to get our own house in order. Fire policy now sits within my department, ensuring that oversight of housing, building safety and fire is properly joined up within government. The Construction Products Reform White Paper sets out ambitious plans to modernise the rules.

We will make sure products are safe and ensure everyone meets their responsibilities. These reforms will mean sensible regulation, fit for the future and confidence in the safety of our homes. We will make sure that people working in construction have the skills they need. We support the building professions and there will be rigorous expectations for competence and for ethics. We have also published a formal statement setting out the path to proper professional regulation of fire engineering. One of the clearest lessons from the inquiry was the need for better fire and rescue services.

I am grateful to the National Fire Chiefs Council and the London Fire Brigade for their work on improving fire and rescue standards. A new National College of Fire and Rescue will ensure these improvements continue. Protecting people means making sure those most at risk are never left behind. New regulations requiring emergency evacuation plans for high rise buildings will come into force on the 6th of April. These will mean vulnerable people have a plan for safe evacuation in the event of a fire, making sure everyone has a safe home also means tackling wider problems in social housing.

Grenfell shone a light on so many wrongs that we are now putting right through Awaabs law. Landlords must make urgent repairs where there are serious threats to health. People have more power to hold landlords to account and we are giving them better access to information so they can get more involvement in how their homes are managed. Speeding up remediation is one of my highest priorities. Work to remove and replace unsafe ACM. ACM cladding the same type that was on Grenfell Tower, has finished on 91% of high rise residential and public buildings, with work on most of the rest now well underway.

We are working with developers, freeholders and local authorities to remove other types of unsafe cladding as quickly as possible, monitoring thousands of high rise residential buildings to make sure they are making progress. We have also strengthened local resilience and emergency preparations. All five Local Resilience Forum trailblazers have been funded, and the four Chief Resilience officers have been appointed. We are also setting up a national system for local areas to learn from each other, so the lessons of Grenfell lead to lasting improvements in crisis response.

It is only right that we are transparent in how we address the Grenfell Tower. Enquiries carefully considered recommendations. We will continue to inform Parliament each quarter about progress with these recommendations. Alongside this statement, I am publishing our annual report on Gov.uk. We will continue with these reports until every recommendation is complete. The government's new Public dashboards for inquiry recommendations will continue to be updated quarterly. Throughout this work, the government has acted on the inquiry's findings to address the culture that allowed failure to happen.

Yet we recognise that for many, something is still missing for the bereaved and survivors and the wider Grenfell community. The need for justice is deeply felt, including decisions on criminal charges. The Metropolitan Police investigation, independent of government, is one of the largest and most complex in the force's history. But I know the slow progress is painful for those who have already waited too long for the justice they deserve. Nothing can erase the grief suffered by the Grenfell community.

Their loss, strength and determination to change things for the better. Guide all that we do. Failures of government under successive administrations made this tragedy possible. This brings an enduring duty to honour the memory of the 72 men, women and children who lost their lives. As part of that duty. I can inform the House that we are introducing legislation to provide the spending authority required to support the Memorial Commission and the community in building and maintaining a lasting and dignified memorial.

I know there is much still we need to do, but there has been real progress. The foundations for lasting change are in place. A reformed regulatory system empowered residents, accountable landlords, stronger professions and greater transparency. Our objective is clear and we remain true to it. Never again, never again should people go to bed unsure that their home is safe. Never again should public institutions fail in their duty to protect. And never again should the voices of residents be ignored.

The actions we are taking honour those who died at Grenfell, support those who survived and serve our shared obligation to make every home a place of safety, dignity and trust. And in that spirit, Madam Deputy Speaker, I commend this statement to the House.
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Paul Holmes Portrait Paul Holmes MP (Hamble Valley, Conservative)
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I call the Shadow Minister Paul Holmes. Holmes. >> Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement? And can I join him in welcoming survivors from Grenfell with us today? Madam Deputy Speaker, the events, which took place on the 14th of June in 2017 2017, was an avoidable national tragedy that should not have robbed 72 people of their lives. This cannot ever be repeated. It is right that, in consultation with the survivors, the bereaved and those directly impacted, a fitting and lasting memorial is in place to remember the 72 lives that were lost that day and the wider Grenfell community, and we welcome the new legislation that the Secretary of State has announced this afternoon.

It is right that we remember the victims, and I thank the Secretary of State for giving us the opportunity to do this while he updates the House. The victims must be at the heart of how we remember Grenfell, and the government must work with them in a sensitive manner as humanly possible. We will support and scrutinise how they proceed with the memorial, to ensure that victims are at the heart of what is decided. We believe that this should be cross-party as this goes beyond party politics and it is simply the right thing to do.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the inquiry's findings decades of systematic failure, dishonesty and negligence are are a damning indictment of successive governments, regulators and industry. The government's response last year was its acceptance of all 58 recommendations is a step forward and we welcome the commitment to action. I am glad to hear today that a few of these recommendations have already taken place. The creation of a single construction regulator, the appointment of a chief construction adviser, and the consolidation of fire safety functions under one department are long overdue reforms.

And while we while we welcome the formulation of a single construction regulator, can the Secretary of State confidently state that he believes that this will be more, will be more effective and help safely build the homes we need? And can he confirm that we will not be left with the potential delays that we've seen under the building safety regulator? Madam Deputy Speaker, in government, we took decisive action to initiate this public inquiry immediately after the tragedy, to learn the lessons and prevent it from ever happening again.

We strengthen the regulatory regime and implemented the inquiry's recommendations following the report. From the first phase, it was welcome that this government also accepted the recommendations. Will the Secretary of State publish a detailed plan on how all of these recommendations are being implemented and the status of these? The Secretary of State updated us that 91% of high rise residential and public buildings has had cladding removed. Will he update us with a roadmap of when the rest will be completed? Madam Deputy Speaker, all building owners must step up, do the right thing and fix their buildings without delay or face the consequences of their inaction.

Those who intentionally cut corners on building safety must be held to account. The Metropolitan Police and CPS should continue to pursue criminal charges against the small number of developers and contractors who knowingly and fraudulently cut corners on building safety for greed and financial gain. The Secretary of State has promised to complete all the remaining recommendations during this Parliament. We will he lay out key dates for when key parts will be achieved, and will he update us on what stage he is at with the Grenfell site itself and future plans for it, and how he is working with the victims families to support them on this.

Madam Deputy Speaker, those who profited from cutting corners, who or who were criminally negligent must face consequences not just fines, but criminal charges. Where evidence allows, we will support and scrutinise the support for victims and their families that the government are putting forward to ensure that we get this right. And I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the Secretary of State and the Building Safety Minister want to get this right. Madam Deputy Speaker, Grenfell must be a watershed, a legacy of safety, transparency and respect for every resident.

I make clear this side of the House's commitment to work with the Secretary of State and the government on a cross-party basis to meet that promise.
14:07
Steve Reed Portrait Rt Hon Steve Reed MP, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Streatham and Croydon North, Labour )
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Secretary of State. and welcome the tone that he's adopted in this? I think it's quite right that we should all be working cross-party on this, both to speed up the outcomes that we're all looking for. But by working together in a way that shows respect to the families and to those who've lost their lives in this, in this tragedy. He asked about the single construction regulator. The BSR became standalone from the HSR HSC on the 26th of January, and work is progressing to bring in to the BSR all the other aspects that will allow it to function in due course.

As the single construction regulator, which the inquiry identified as such an important part of fixing the building safety system. And Lord Rowe is overseeing rapid improvement in the performance of the BSR. Even as we speak. Remediation. He asked about. It's welcome, of course, that 91% of high rise residential public buildings with unsafe ACM have now been remediated, but we recognise there's further to go and there is. There are further acceleration plans available and I'll be happy to write to him if you would like to have access to that information.

Similarly, he asked about key dates in implementing further recommendations. We will continue to publish quarterly reports so that the whole House can scrutinise progress that the government is making with these, with these recommendations and my, my hon. Friend, the Minister and I are meeting regularly with families and affected groups to make sure that we are hearing directly their concerns and can feed that straight into the system.
14:09
Joe Powell Portrait Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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For the Kensington and Bayswater MP Joe Powell. Take your time. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, as we

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Madam Deputy Speaker, as we approach the. Ninth anniversary of the Grenfell tragedy, bereaved survivors and the community are survivors and the community are still rightly advocating for truth, justice and change on behalf of the 72 people who lost their lives in an entirely preventable fire. And I pay tribute to all of those who have joined us again today and those who are watching this statement. I know the whole House will agree with the Secretary of State that criminal accountability cannot come soon enough.

But in the meantime, I welcome this annual report and the progress being made in many areas, from building safety to social housing management. We know that too often lessons have not been learned from public inquiries, and implementation of recommendations has not been transparent and accountable. So I would also welcome an update from the Minister on the proposal for an oversight mechanism to ensure recommendations are actually implemented. And when it comes to the performance of Kensington and Chelsea Council, many residents are highly sceptical about this progress.

A seriously failing housing department, according to the independent regulator. The third worst record on complaints, according to the Local Government Ombudsman and on the Lancaster West estate itself, uncertainty over the Budget for completing the promised works. So can I also ask the Secretary of State for his assurance that Rbkc will remain under close central government scrutiny, and that he will do all he can to broker a solution so that residents on Lancaster, West West, the ones who least deserve to be suffering, don't wait years more for their own safe and healthy homes.
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Steve Reed Portrait Rt Hon Steve Reed MP, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Streatham and Croydon North, Labour )
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Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Sector state. >> Well, can I thank him for his

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Well, can I thank him for his question but also congratulate him for being such a powerful voice for for being such a powerful voice for his constituents and all those who have suffered and died as a result of the tragedy? Grenfell Tower He has rightly earned respect from members across the House for the dignified way in which he's carried out his role as a representative for the community. The government is very keen to make sure that we learn the lessons and are implementing the report, so we will continue to publish quarterly reports to update the whole House and indeed members of the public on the progress that we're making and work is continuing across government, including my department, on on setting up a national oversight mechanism to make sure that the recommendations of this, and indeed other inquiries do not just sit on shelves, but get implemented and inform improvement in the way that we deliver public services, including in this important case, fire, fire safety.

He refers to the Lancaster West estate, which I've had the opportunity to visit with him. The government has made £25 million available to allow work to continue on upgrading and improving the estate. He'll be aware that we have concerns about the council's delivery capacity and cost control, and I'm in contact with the leader of the council about those concerns in the hope and expectation that we can address them together. But for all of us, it will be the residents who live on the estate whose interests must come first.
14:12
Gideon Amos Portrait Gideon Amos MP (Taunton and Wellington, Liberal Democrat)
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I called Liberal Democrat spokesperson Gideon Amos. spokesperson Gideon Amos. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Clearly the Liberal Democrats thoughts, like those of everyone in thoughts, like those of everyone in this House are primarily with the 72 tragic losses of life that occurred at the Grenfell disaster. And I welcome the spirit of cross-party discussion that the Secretary of State and the opposition spokesperson for Hamble Valley has have already set out, and I certainly endorse the points made by the hon.

Member for Kensington and Bayswater in his contribution just now. I welcome many of the recommendations and the actions being taken by the government in passing those applied to architects, chartered architects and I myself have begun the training that is now required of all architects as a result of the Grenfell report, and I declare an interest as a member of the Royal Institute of British Architects. And that brings home, in a sanitary way the failure of the professions, the failure of successive governments, the failure of industry and the failure of regulation on tragic and horrendous scale.

Buried within the report. All I should say, one of the key recommendations in Martin Vickers report is set out in typically neutral language of a High Court judge, a request for the government to reconsider whether it is in the public interest for building control functions to be performed by those with a commercial interest, and similar questions were raised on the construction product testing System by Sir Martin Moore-bick. The white paper refers to the unethical manufacturer. Unethical manufacturers were able to exploit systemic weaknesses with appalling consequences.

The follow up Moral Day report on construction product testing highlighted again, I quote, conflicts of interest and virtually absent enforcement, which are all shocking parts of this tragedy. I would like to ask my first question to Secretary. State, therefore, is whether that decision has been taken because for us, it seems we would go further and say that commercial interests have no place in building control inspection and have no place in product testing.

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My second question. I know this is a very sensitive

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I know this is a very sensitive issue, but the. Hon. Member has two minutes is over by 39 seconds. Timing is everything. So please be quick to your next question.

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I will. Madam Speaker, thank you very much. My second question, therefore, is in relation to those who are excluded from the building who are excluded from the building safety fund. There are tens of thousands of families who are in buildings under 11m, or living with products that might last an hour in a fire under part 9980. That is the wrong standard. We need all highly flammable materials to be remediated and all buildings to be remediated that are fire safety risks.

And I ask Secretary of State to address that question.
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Florence Eshalomi Portrait Florence Eshalomi MP (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, 109 days on the 14th of June, the community and many of us will come together to many of us will come together to remember the 72 people who tragically lost their lives. And almost nine years on, and to see the government accepting the 58 recommendations is an acceptance that the tragedy at Grenfell should not have happened. Yeah, that tragedy was borne out of systematic failure and I stand here today wearing my greenheart to recognise the fact that the community had to come together in the aftermath of that fire, because that fire happened, because no one listened to them, no one believed them.

So I commend them for their campaign and their ongoing campaign to get full justice, including criminal justice, here. And I just wanted to ask the Secretary of State, and I do thank him for this statement this afternoon. And one of the things we heard in our Select Committee when we had the Grenfell community before us was around the valid concerns, which my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater highlighted in terms of a national oversight mechanism, because it cannot be right that the government will mark its own work on that.

They want full transparency. I also thank the Secretary of State for outlining that the government will lay papers with regards to spending authority for the memorial. It is really important if we are really to allow the community to have a lasting and fitting tribute that this memorial is built with them and designed with them and working with the memorial commission. And most importantly, can the Secretary of State outline that the funding for this has been ring fenced and there will be no issues when this funding for that memorial is discussed?
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Blair McDougall Portrait Blair McDougall MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (East Renfrewshire, Labour)
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Thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, with your permission. I'd like to make a statement on the government's future. >> Of the.

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Of the. Post Office Green Paper. We published the green paper in July, starting a national conversation starting a national conversation about the future of the Post Office, an institution that has served every community and every corner of the United Kingdom for generations. More than 2500 people took the time to respond to the consultation, including postmasters, small businesses, service providers, community groups and members of the public. We also held dedicated discussion groups with postmasters and citizens across the country.

Let me start by thanking every respondent. Their views provided a wealth of insight and have been carefully considered. I am pleased to announce today that we are publishing the government response to the consultation today, and our response, Madam Deputy Speaker, must echo the clear call that we heard from respondents. They told us that they want a strong and convenient post office network built around permanent, full time and full service branches that offer a wide range of essential postal, banking and government services.

A post office that is reliable, modern, transparent and that puts postmasters at the heart of decision making. So today, I can confirm that the government will keep the minimum network size of 11,500 branches and will retain all six geographical access criteria, ensuring that communities across the UK, including rural and remote areas, continue to have local and reliable access to postal services, according alongside maintaining the network requirements, we are introducing a new requirement that at least 50% of the network must be full time and full service branches.

This requirement sets 50% as an absolute minimum, and we expect the Post Office to continue to operate substantially above it. We are setting this requirement to ensure that the full time, full service branches remain the backbone of the network for the foreseeable future, as these are the branches that deliver the greatest social value and the strongest customer service. At the same time, we are not blind to the challenges facing the Post office, and we have built an evidence based process so that we know when it is the right time for government to look at the Post Office network again.

But Madam Deputy Speaker, stability requires investment. That is why over the next two years, the government is providing up to £483 million to support the transformation of the Post Office. This is on top of the network subsidy funding to support the cost of delivering government policy, which will be £70 million in financial year 20 2627. The investment funding will modernise branches across the country, support new in-branch technology and the delivery of new products and services that will ensure the Post Office can do what its customers need it to do, whilst keeping the identity and role at the centre of so many UK high streets.

The funding will also enable major technology transformation programme within the next five years that will transition operations away from Fujitsu and ultimately replace the horizon system. Postmasters must be able to trust the technology that they use. It should make their jobs easier and help them to spend their time doing what they do best serving their local communities. The days of the post office relying on outdated systems must end. This programme lays the ground for a modern, resilient and fit for purpose organisation.

Madam Deputy Speaker. The consultation reinforces the importance of the Post Office for post, of course, but also for banking and access to government services. And so I would like to address some specific points on each of these. Firstly, on postage, respondents told us that they value the Post Office as a multi-carrier parcel hub and want more choice and convenience on how parcels are sent and received. We will support Post Office's efforts to innovate in this space, while ensuring that essential services remain accessible in banking.

were c plays a critical role in cash and in-person banking. Being able to access essential banking services like cash withdrawals and deposits is valuable to many Post Office customers, in particular, small businesses, and respondents expressed an appetite to increase their offer. Last month, the government held discussions between the Post Office and the banking sector to explore where they may be able to work together on a commercial and voluntary basis to better meet the needs of individuals and businesses. Those discussions were based around areas of mutual interest like banking services, financial inclusion, modernisation and the importance of continuing to improve financial crime safeguards.

And those conversations are ongoing. Finally, on government services, colleagues will know that many services have moved online, but respondents told us strongly that vulnerable, digitally excluded and rural customers continue to rely on the Post Office for in-person services. In that spirit, we have established a cross-government group to look at the developing a common physical front door for government services, expanded assisted digital support and exploring new propositions such as prescription collection and identity verification at the heart of the Green Paper and of today's government response is the need to strengthen the relationship between the Post Office and postmasters.

The horizon scandal was one of the worst miscarriages of justice in modern British history. While government remains focussed on delivering redress to victims as rapidly as possible, we must also ensure that the culture that enabled those wrongs can never return. The Post Office has already taken steps to rebuild trust. The postmaster panel and new Consultative Council, embedding postmasters and key teams at the Post Office's head office and the election of postmaster non-executive directors to the board. But we agree with respondents that more is needed.

So today, I am confirming that the Post Office will develop a culture strategy with measurable objectives covering employees, postmasters, strategic partners and customers. Government expects this plan to be in place by this summer to ensure these reforms genuinely meet the needs of postmasters, government has commissioned an independent external evaluation evaluation of the initiatives the Post Office has implemented to strengthen postmaster engagement, and this will report later this year. Madam Deputy Speaker, our long term goal is a post office that is financially sustainable, adaptable to changing markets and less reliant on government funding.

But this transition must be responsible and realistic. Respondents were clear that stability comes first, particularly while the horizon inquiry continues. That is why government is providing £37 million of funding next financial year to the Post Office to support, with the cost of administering redress and responding to the inquiry. While the Green Paper explored long term government governance ideas such as mutualisation or a charter model, the government will not make any decisions on structural reform until Sherwin-Williams final inquiry report.

In the meantime, we will work with the Post Office to ensure that the organisation demonstrates financial discipline, generates a trading profit by 2030 and continues to reduce reliance on taxpayer subsidy while protecting access for communities that depend on it. Madam Deputy Speaker this green paper process and the thousands of responses we received, show the enduring importance of the Post Office to the life of this country. The government's response sets a clear direction. We are maintaining a strong and accessible network where backing postmasters through a major investment and cultural reform, we are modernising services for a digital age, and we are setting the Post Office on a path towards long term financial and operational stability.

The Post Office must be modern, resilient and trusted, shaped by the communities it serves and built around the people who run it. With today's response, we take a major step towards that future. I commend this statement to the House.
14:39
Harriett Baldwin Portrait Dame Harriett Baldwin MP (West Worcestershire, Conservative)
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I call the Shadow Minister, Dave Harriett Baldwin. >> Well. >> Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and can I thank the Minister for advance sight of his Minister for advance sight of his statement and warmly welcome. I don't often say these words. The decision that the Minister has announced today, because it sounds like they've abandoned the risk that was in the proposals that they shutter thousands of local post offices, especially in rural areas. And so it is very much a relief for villages and high streets that the government has listened to.

The people who engage with the consultation, listened to the 180,000 people who signed our petition and heard the calls from the readers of the Mail on Sunday, the express, the Telegraph and other media outlets who were all outraged by the possibility that the government might close their much valued local post office. And by keeping the minimum network size at 11,500 branches as it was throughout the 14 years that we were in government and keeping all the geographical access criteria, the Minister has avoided a U-turn.

In fact, I would describe what he's done as avoiding a chasm that was opening up in the road in front of him and avoiding it. Niftily. The campaign that we led showed how important it is to voice the concerns of the vulnerable, those who are digitally excluded, and the small businesses who rely so much on our precious post office network. And can I add my thanks to the hard work of every postmaster and postmistress across Britain who keeps that network going? However, it's not all sweetness and light for me today.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the Post Office Network, like so many retailers, faces a £45 million hike in their tax, their taxes because of National Insurance. Many post offices are also seeing increases in their business rates of over 100%. In fact, the chairman of the Post Office, Nigel Railton, was clear when he said that these rising costs from National Insurance and the National Living Wage were exactly why the business needed a fresh start. Because you can't claim to support the backbone of the network while breaking its back with tax hikes.

At the same time. Madam Deputy Speaker, we on this side of the House have always stood up for our nation's high streets and we would introduce a permanent 100% business rate relief for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses whose premises are under the rateable value threshold of 110,000. Now, I've got a few questions for the Minister. He announced a requirement that at least 50% of the network must be full time and full service. I believe the number today is 79%.

So isn't that a downgrade? And what does he expect from the other 29%? Could he also confirm that no small rural branches will be consolidated and replaced by city centre hubs under the guise of this new 50% full service requirement? Would he please expand on what the minimum service he would expect these smaller branches to deliver? The Minister also committed to the Technology Transformation Programme to replace the horizon system within the next five years. I heard the first two years of funding, but could he give us some detail on how the current system will be maintained after those first two years? He mentioned the importance of the Post Office network.

With the number of banks that are closing branches up and down this country, has there been a new, specific agreement made with the banks to provide additional support? Where to post office branches, where banks are closing, and what update can he give the House about the discussions with Fujitsu and their financial contribution towards Post Office redress? But in closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, clearly the Minister has been forced to listen. He's been forced to do a U-turn. Madam Deputy Speaker, on the proposals to reduce the size of our precious Post Office network, he's been forced to admit that our high streets do deserve better than the managed decline that was at risk under the previous proposals, and this is a victory for all our constituents.
14:44
Blair McDougall Portrait Blair McDougall MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (East Renfrewshire, Labour)
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Minister McNeil. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think if I'm praised much more from that side of the house, I've got drum drummed out of the got drum drummed out of the brownies. Can I, can I welcome, welcome, welcome. Her response and I think there is a consensus across the House of the importance that post offices play in our communities, and particularly in our high streets and in our remote villages. In particular. I join her as well, Madam Speaker, in welcoming the campaigning by Mail and Daily Express readers who have made their voice very clear in terms of how important they feel at the Post Office is to our communities.

And I echo her words and the importance of obviously, Postal Services Minister and also small Business Minister, how essential post offices are in terms of having somewhere to drop off your takings. If you if you are a small business and I think that's that's incredibly important. She mentions that the cost the post office are facing, which is which is a point well taken. We as a government are putting £483 million into the transformation of the Post Office to ensure that it is able to have that financially sustainable future as a business on our high streets and in our villages.

She asked specifically about support for the IT transformation within that of of the over 500 million that the government has committed to transformation, including the money already spent before this green paper of £136 million is committed to technology and to replacing the horizon system, which is obviously a major priority for us. But that transformation investment beyond what we are putting into it will also enable the Post Office to do new things. Often the debate about the Post office.

Madam Deputy Speaker, concentrates on the idea of the Post Office being the last place to do things, and I am really encouraged talking to the management of Post Office Limited, that they want the Post office to be the first place that you think of when you think of cash and other services on the high street. She asked about the the additional 50% trigger that we have, we have put in in particularly and completely fairly raises the question of what that would mean for rural areas.

So the access criteria, in terms of access to the full sort of services that a branch provides are being maintained. So those protections are still there. This is very much an additional protection rather than an alternative to the protections that were already there for rural post offices. And for example, within the 11,500 criteria, drop and collect branches. Those those branches that do not offer the full service are included within that, but they are not included within the access criteria.

So it is about protecting the access to the full, full range of services as possible. For for those. And finally, on the point on Fujitsu, I met with Fujitsu shortly before the end of last year, and I made it very clear that we we believe, as they have said themselves, that they have a moral responsibility to contribute substantially to the costs of the inquiry. They have said the, the, the cost of redress. They have said that they wish to wait until Sarah Edwards inquiry before making a decision on that.

But we will continue to have those discussions.
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Sarah Olney Portrait Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat. >> Thank you very much. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank the Minister for the advance sight of his statement? And I promise to set a good example for colleagues by keeping my response brief. As the Minister has laid out, responses to the consultation underscored the importance of post offices as community hubs which provide vital services, not least to NHS patients, for the delivery of important medical correspondents. 99.7% of the population live within three miles of a post office, and 4000 of these branches are open seven days a week.

And this is an increasingly important statistic considering the rapid closure of high street services such as banks over the past decade. Now, the Minister has said that at least 50% of the network must be full time and full service branches. So many people rely on the Post office to provide vital services. So can I ask the Minister to confirm that we will not see a reduction of full time branches, and that he will ensure that opening hours continue to meet the needs of working people? The Minister also referenced the important community banking service that post offices provide, but he didn't provide specific assurances to the House about other services provided by the Post Office, such as DVLA services and passport office services.

He's mentioned expanded digital services, but this will not be a help to many of our constituents in this place who live in remote areas with poor broadband access or difficult or difficult phone service access. So can he provide a commitment that the Post Office will continue to provide these these physical services to those people who will have difficulty accessing DVLA passport services digitally, and so can he commit that these will remain in Post Office branches beyond March 2026? And will he commit to multi-year contracts with the, in particular with the DVLA? Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
14:51
Blair McDougall Portrait Blair McDougall MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (East Renfrewshire, Labour)
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I thank her for those questions and for for welcoming today's statement. Firstly, on the 50% additional protection that we are bringing in that she references just to reassure. In addition to maintaining the network of 11,500 post offices, the access criteria. So 99% of the UK population to be within three miles of their nearest Post Office outlet, 90% to be within one mile of their nearest Post Office outlet, 99% in deprived urban areas to be within one mile, 95% of the total urban population to be within one mile, 95% of the total rural population to be within three miles.

And then the additional protection for particularly rural areas of 95% of the population in every Post Office postcode district to be within six miles, they will all be maintained, which should should reassure with that the point she makes about ensuring that post Office hours match people's lives is something that is actually happening. Postmasters are doing that already. I visited a post office in Acton where they stay open weekends. They are open till 11 p.m. so that other retailers, other grocers can come and put their takings in.

So postmasters are doing that. And then finally, with regards to government services, exactly. Because we recognise the importance of post offices for vulnerable people, for people, for whatever reason, might struggle with the choices that many other people are making about accessing government services online, because we recognise the importance of that. That is one of the key reasons we are keeping the network at the level it is at the moment. But as I mentioned in my statement, we are also doing work across government to look at that idea of the single front door for face to face government services and the role that the Post Office can play in that.

So we are looking to enhance that role that the Post Office plays.
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Pippa Heylings Portrait Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Yeah. resource of universal value. We in the UK are custodians of 85% of the world's chalk streams, our equivalent of the Great Barrier Reef, timeless jewels of our natural heritage. And yet we are allowing them to be drained dry and to have raw sewage dumped on them by water that put people before profit and the planet chalk streams the same reverence and protections that we give to our greatest cathedrals or monuments, our streams and rivers are just as much a part of our national identity and international significance.

And a number of these rare and beautiful ecosystems run through my constituency of South Cambridgeshire, including Hobson's Brook and the rivers cam, Granta, Qep Re, Mel Wilbraham and Orwell. And they stretch far beyond my constituency from East Devon through the North West Essex Downs and the Chilterns up to the Norfolk coast, with a southern spur through the South Downs and into Kent, and a northeastern block in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. There is nothing more British than standing beside a sparkling river, with kids and children, paddling and playing poohsticks.

As the world around us changes, such scenes have brought joy to generations before us and should bring joy to many generations to come. But our responsibility is far greater still. Article four of the Unesco convention places a duty on our government of ensuring the identification and protection for all humanity of our natural heritage, of which chalk streams are the national jewel. This is a huge opportunity for the government to advance its Pride of Place programme.

Pride locally, nationally and internationally and we are here today in one of our World Heritage sites, the Palace of Westminster. We are proud to have 32 World Heritage Sites in the UK, and yet only four a natural World Heritage Sites. My bill requires the government to remedy this and to nominate the network of chalk streams as a serial natural World Heritage Site. The whole process necessarily takes a few years, but as I shall explain, the goal is clear, the justification is strong, and the work must start now to approve a site for Natural World Heritage status.

Unesco must be satisfied that it is of outstanding universal value. In David Attenborough's words on his BBC series Wild Isles, they are one of the rarest habitats on earth, supporting extraordinary richness and diversity of life, more plant species than any other type of river in the UK, providing critical habitat for rare species such as water voles, white clawed crayfish, brown trout and a unique chalk stream subspecies of the Atlantic salmon. Alongside many specialised invertebrates and Madam Deputy Speaker.

There are only 260 chalk streams worldwide. Their number is small due to the unique conditions and alchemy that's needed to form them. They exist only where water filters slowly through chalk aquifers, emerges at springs crystal clear, mineral rich, and at a near constant temperature throughout the year. Or rather, that is what used to happen today. Our chalk streams are in a perilous state. Climate change is one of the greatest threats to our nature and wildlife.

Extreme droughts are exacerbating the damage already being done. We are letting our streams be drained dry because of untrammelled growth, allowing water companies and agricultural runoff to create a chemical cocktail of sewage and slurry. Wildlife is suffering. The chalk stream Atlantic salmon is close to extinction in some rivers, and rising temperatures threaten the survival of trout. That is why this house should make a clear commitment to restore and conserve these rivers. The government has itself recognised their value, and a Minister once observed that if our chalk streams were buildings, they would be Unesco heritage sites.

Exactly. So Unesco designation will help galvanise protection, public engagement and investment in their recovery. The nomination process will take time. Inclusion on the UK's tentative list is the first step, and for this, further research and monitoring, conservation, planning and preparation of the case for nomination is needed. A fundamental requirement is the engagement of local governments and stakeholders and networking amongst them across the broad geographic span of the chalk streams. And in fact, this work has already begun in many communities where they treasure the value of a healthy work chalk stream for their physical and mental health recreation, where they're monitoring their water quality, acting as stewards, cleaning and maintaining and fighting for their survival.

Armies of volunteers. Civil society groups incredibly capable and connected, including the Wildlife Trusts, the National Chalk Stream Restoration Group, Wild Fish River action and in my constituency here with us in the gallery, the Cam Valley Forum, the Cam Catchment Partnership, the friends of the River Qep, the Granta, Fulbourn Fen and the Cambridgeshire Climate and Nature Forum. We need to see the government follow through and step up on its own assertions about its commitment to Chalk stream conservation, because commitment to the national level for protection is an essential prerequisite for nominating a site for World Heritage status, and the UK has maintained certain legal protections.

However, of the 200 plus chalk streams, only 11 are designated as a Site of Special Scientific Interest and only four as a Special Area for conservation. So much more needs to be done to ramp up to stop the sewage dumping and the abstraction that we've talked about. And that's why I'm joining many voices to call for listing chalk streams alongside ancient woodland as irreplaceable habitat, which they certainly are in the National Planning Policy Framework, in line with the government's concession and promise during debate in this chamber.

And I quote, to make clear unambiguously our expectations for how plan makers and decision makers should treat chalk streams, and we should also be ring fencing. Substantial financing from the Water Restoration Fund. As a nation Madam Deputy Speaker, that prides itself on its love for nature and prepares to celebrate the 100th birthday of nature's greatest advocate, Sir David Attenborough. We have a responsibility to act. It's a global responsibility handed to us by the rocks beneath our feet.

So let's embrace it. Celebrate it. Let's be the global custodians of our very own equivalent of the Galapagos Islands, the Great Barrier Reef, the rainforest. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill would start the journey to secure Unesco recognition for one of the rarest habitats on Earth. We hold 85% of the world's chalk streams. With that privilege comes responsibility. Let us rise to it. I commend the bill to this House. Yeah. The question is that the hon. Member have leave to bring in the bill, as many of their opinions say, I as contrary.

No, the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the bill? Doctor. Roz Savage Victoria Collins. Charlotte Cane Liz Jarvis. Doctor. Danny Chambers. Vikki Slade. Alex Brewer. Olly Glover Simon Hoare. Carla Denyer Chris Hinchliff. And myself.

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Chalk Chalk streams Chalk streams Unesco Chalk streams Unesco Natural

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Chalk streams Unesco Natural World Heritage Site. Bill.

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Second Reading. What day. Is the 27th? Friday. Friday the February 27th? Friday. Friday the February the 27th. Right. If Ministers are shuffling, they should do so now, shuffling, they should do so now, very quickly. We now come to the general debate on Ukraine. I call the Secretary of State, I believe the Secretary of State to move.
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John Healey Portrait Rt Hon John Healey MP, The Secretary of State for Defence (Rawmarsh and Conisbrough, Labour)
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Yesterday marked a milestone that none of us wanted to see. Four none of us wanted to see. Four years of Putin's war on Ukraine, four years of his brutal, full four years of his brutal, full scale invasion of this sovereign nation, a country, a proud country nation, a country, a proud country that has fought back Putin's attacks and let us not forget, has attacks and let us not forget, has suffered 12 years under a pain of occupation. So this week we stand with the families mourning loved ones, the troops fighting on the front line and the millions displaced from home, yearning for the opportunity to return.

Madam Deputy Speaker, four years ago today, a dozen Ukrainian border guards on the tiny, isolated Snake Island in the middle of the Black Sea were surrounded by Russian sea and air forces. And when the Russians radioed to demand their surrender, the Ukrainians told the ship's command, get lost. When in fact they told them in stronger terms that I can't repeat this afternoon in this House. But that defiance has driven Ukrainian resistance to Russia every day of the conflict since.

And in Kyiv last month, that defiance burned fiercely. When I met emergency workers, military chiefs, Ukrainian Ministers and President Zelenskyy himself, because Ukrainians, civilians and military alike are still fighting with the same courage and determination which

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inspired the world. In February 2022, I will indeed. I'm sorry. This is this is.

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I'm sorry. This is this is. Thanks, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm sorry this is early, but I just want to reflect. I was in Kyiv at want to reflect. I was in Kyiv at the same time as a Secretary of State, so I wanted to thank him for his visit. We were there at the his visit. We were there at the same time, and I was there also to see the apartment block where second responders were hit with a double tap strike, as in, they had double tap strike, as in, they had gone to respond to rescue those and then they were hit.

The Secretary of State is aware of the desperate need of air defence missiles, and the lack of patriots that are going in. Please, I know you will address this, but is this something that

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has been raised with the utmost urgency? We need to defend Ukraine's skies? Well, first, I thank the hon.

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Well, first, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his visit to Kyiv and the fact that members on all sides the fact that members on all sides of the House have regularly been to Ukraine that lifts the morale of Ukrainian people. It reminds the Ukrainian people that we, the UK, stand with them as strongly now as stand with them as strongly now as we did four years ago. And the hon. Gentleman is right. That morning I arrived in Kyiv. It was a morning when 90 Shahed drones had hit the city overnight.

21 of them had been targeted directly at residential accommodation and the block that he and I both visited, which had the side of it ripped open by one of the drone strikes, was hit twice, deliberately an hour and a half apart, so that those emergency workers that had gone in to help those suffering from the first strike were then hit, and in one case, killed by the second. This is an indication of the cynical tactics, the illegal tactics, the war crimes that Putin is committing in Ukraine.

And it reminds us that we must redouble our determination to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. On the question of air defence, I'll come on to that later. But he's quite right. He and I were both told when we were out in Kyiv last month. It's President Zelensky's first priority, and he would have seen two weeks ago when I chaired the Ud-cg at NATO headquarters, I made a commitment that Britain was committing an extra half billion pound package of air defence systems and missiles in order to meet that very urgent need.

And he and I both saw that day, the Madam Deputy Speaker, President Putin, postures as a strong man. He wants to he wants the world to believe that Russia has unstoppable momentum on the battlefield, that Ukrainians have no choice but to concede on his terms, and that we as Ukraine's Western allies have grown weary? Well, he's wrong, wrong, wrong. This was a war Putin thought he'd win in a week. But four years on, he's achieved none of his strategic aims.

Instead, he's inflicted terrible suffering on his own people as well as Ukraine. He is failing now. Of course, Ukrainian troops are certainly under pressure on the front line, but Russia has now been fighting in Ukraine for longer than the Soviet Union, fought Germany during the Second World War. Its forces are advancing more slowly than those in the battle of the Somme, and nearly a million and a quarter Russians have been injured or killed. The average casualty rate of Russian troops is now 1000 troops each day, every day, and the average life expectancy now of a conscript deployed to the Russian front line is less than five days.

So Putin's desperate, desperate to avoid a second Russian mobilisation. And because he's desperate, he's turning to more desperate measures to plug those gaps. Increasingly heavily reliant on foreign fighters, he's already called on 17,000 North Koreans fighting for him on his front line, and now he's preying on thousands of men from Latin America, Central Asia and Africa, sending them to their deaths on his front line. But Putin's war machine continues to be degraded. His war economy continues to be damaged.

40% of government spending is now on the military. In Russia, manufacturing is falling at its fastest rates. Oil revenues are plunging, food prices are soaring. Make no mistake, Putin is under pressure and he targets Ukrainian cities and civilians and energy supplies during this, the coldest winter for a decade, he's killed Ukrainian children in their beds, he's destroyed hospital wards, and he's plunged entire cities into darkness. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, for 2026, this government's mission. Britain's mission for Ukraine is simple.

Support the fight today. Secure the peace tomorrow. Step up the pressure on Putin. Emily Darlington. I will, of course, I.

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Don't know if President Putin follows these debates, but I'd like follows these debates, but I'd like him to know that as far as the nation is concerned, the Secretary of State speaks for our entire of State speaks for our entire nation. We're completely united on this. And Kenny, also make clear this. And Kenny, also make clear that we're equally robust in not having any ceasefire on the basis having any ceasefire on the basis that currently unoccupied territory is ceded.

This would be an absolute disaster and simply encouraged Putin to go further. But I just wanted to tell him that it's very important that our adversaries know

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that we are completely united in this House. Secretary of State. I'm very grateful to the right

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I'm very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, as the Father of the House, he's able to speak for the House. He speaks for all sides of the house, and he speaks also for our nation as well. On supporting Ukraine's fight today. supporting Ukraine's fight today. This year, we've spent the highest level ever on military assistance. level ever on military assistance. And two weeks ago, I convened and chaired that 33rd meeting of the 50 nation strong Ukraine Contact Defence group, alongside German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius.

We work to make this meeting a big ud-cg with big commitments for 2026. So for the UK's part, I announced a new half billion pound package of urgent air defence support. As I said to the hon. Gentleman, President Zelensky's top priority, my right hon. Friend give way. I will in a moment. And in total, this ud-cg raised nearly $40 billion in new pledges of aid for Ukraine. Ukrainians. They're called it the best ud-cg yet. And it also sent a clear message to Moscow.

We are more united and we are more Ukraine.

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I Kevin Bonavia. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. He my hon. Friend for giving way. He has been a steadfast champion for his country's support for Ukraine alongside his predecessors. This alongside his predecessors. This country is indeed united. But would he also pay tribute to those in our defence industry, including in my constituency Stevenage, to be manufacturing the Storm Shadow missiles that have been used on the

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missiles that have been used on the front lines of Kyiv in Ukraine and all all other support that they will give in the future? Secretary of State?

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I will indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker, we're we're proud of our British defence industry. It equips British defence industry. It equips our armed forces. It has helped equip the Ukrainians. It has helped equip the Ukrainians. It has helped provide the essential aid to keep the Ukrainians in the fight for the last four years. And his last four years. And his constituents that work at MBDa in Stevenage are playing a really important part of that. Ukraine important part of that. Ukraine tells us, reminds us of a deep lesson that we'd overlooked for too long, which is that when a country is forced to fight or faced with conflict, its armed forces are only as strong as the industry that stands behind them.

And we have great pride on all sides of the

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house with what the great innovation and British industry and the workers in it are able to do. Am I.

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Am I. I will, I'll give way to. The hon. Members. Mention of

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The hon. Members. Mention of Storm Shadow reminds me of the fact that, particularly in the early days of the conflict, there was resistance, often from the other side of the Atlantic to supplying Ukraine with some of the longer range missile systems that are necessary, really, to inflict pain on Russia in its centre. Now that President Trump's contribution has been reduced to supplying weapons, which the Europeans have to pay for before they can go to Ukraine, do we have greater freedom to supply longer range, more effective weapons to Ukraine, or are we still somewhat beholden to the wishes of people on the other side of the Atlantic? Secretary of State.



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The principle on which we have donated British made weapons to Ukraine has been consistently for the defence of Ukraine, and that's how Ukraine has been using them and how Ukraine has been using them and using them effectively. Madam Deputy Speaker, on security, I

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agree with my friend. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, can I thank the Secretary of State? And I would like to offer my And I would like to offer my wholehearted support to him and appreciate the tone of his speech. Would he like to say a little bit more about the valuable work underway in some of our tech industry at the moment, working on defence technology, and perhaps say a little bit more about the way in which he's modernising procurement to encourage those vital companies

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to come forward. Thank you. Mr. Well, my hon. Friend, has I know,

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Well, my hon. Friend, has I know, some advanced defence tech industry firms in his patch, and we have some aspects of what we can do in this country which are valuable to Ukraine. I'll come on to a particular joint program we've got with Ukraine in a moment. But I with Ukraine in a moment. But I have also to say to my hon. Friend, the Ukrainians are the most creative, the most combat experienced defence industry and armed forces in the world at present.

And we also have a great deal to learn. It's important that we're able to welcome Ukrainian firms that wish to set up new new factories, new plants in this United Kingdom. And I know the shadow defence Secretary welcomes just such a Ukrainian company into his constituency as I do set. I

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hope to open this week. I will, of course. The subject of tech.

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The subject of tech. The Defence Secretary may be aware of NP Aerospace of Coventry, which among other things, manufactures body armour and the Mod, as the Secretary will be aware, Mod, as the Secretary will be aware, is at the moment purchasing body armour that is fitted to the female form, but not for the British Army, form, but not for the British Army, but for Ukraine, which is perfectly fine. But would he ensure that the British Army to puts out a statement of requirement for body armour for women, since it would be inappropriate if in at some point in the future British service women found themselves serving side by side with Ukrainian servicewomen.

Ukrainian servicewomen having this high tech body armour but our own servicewomen will not. And Madam Deputy Speaker, I have to declare

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an interest as the father of two servicewomen. Secretary of. State.

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State. Can I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman's two daughters serve in this country? First of all, say this country? First of all, say secondly, I hope he got to the that Coventry firms exhibition in this Coventry firms exhibition in this house yesterday to visit and see for himself what they produce. for himself what they produce. Third, I would say I hope he and I think he does by his intervention, agree that first and foremost our duty is to support Ukraine.

But I am very conscious of the broader point that he makes. We procure for Ukraine, we learn lessons, and we need to make sure that our own forces are equally, equally well equipped for the future. Just checking on any further interventions. At this stage. I'll give way to him. Madam Deputy Speaker, on securing the peace for tomorrow. We all welcome the US leading the push for peace, and no one welcomes those efforts more than Ukraine. And when the peace comes, which we all hope to see this year, Britain will be ready to help secure that peace for the long term.

And I'm proud to serve in a British Cabinet under a Prime Minister. That was the very first world leader to commit troops on the ground in Ukraine in the event of a ceasefire, and following the Paris summit that he co-chaired last month, the work of the coalition of the willing is more advanced now than ever. He yesterday chaired a meeting of 36 coalition leaders. They confirm Ukraine can go into 2026 confident in the knowledge that when the war ends, it will have security guarantees, it will have a big prosperity agreement and a path to EU membership and the coalition of the willing Multinational Force for Ukraine will deploy.

It will deploy when peace is agreed to secure Ukraine's skies and seas and regenerate its armed forces for the future. Both the British Army and the Royal Air Force are now conducting exercises in preparation, and have accelerated £200 million already. To ensure our forces have the kit they need to deploy, I will.

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Could the Defence Secretary just assure this House when we will see the structure of the British component of multinational force

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component of multinational force Ukraine, so that we can properly scrutinise how that force structure will look? Secretary of State.

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Secretary of State. So the detail of the structure and the deployment will become clear and will depend on the clear and will depend on the context and detail of the peace agreement. The Prime Minister has said that in the in the context of a decision to deploy, this House will have the chance to debate and vote on that deployment. And it will be, I suspect, at that point that we'll be able to set out that detail. He and other experts in this House will have the chance to examine that debate.

That, and I trust, give it their approval so that any British forces would be deployed into Ukraine in the context of a peace deal with all party support. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is no more serious a decision there is no more serious a decision for any Defence Secretary or any government than committing our armed forces on British troops to Ukraine, because that means that we will have a negotiated peace and that this war will finally be over here.

Here, Madam Deputy Speaker, Britain has been united for Ukraine from day one. This House, as the Father of the House has said, has been united for Ukraine from day one. I will indeed.

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I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way the exhibition in the giving way the exhibition in the upper waiting hall this week is called voices from Ukraine, and it called voices from Ukraine, and it is a collaboration between my constituent sculptor, Stephen Duncan and celebrated Ukrainian Duncan and celebrated Ukrainian sculptors Oles, who is serving at the front line in Ukraine, and Boris Krylov. It is an extremely moving set of meditations on both the horror of the conflict and the resilience of Ukrainian people and their identity, which Putin is so viciously seeking to erase.

Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to these talented and courageous artists in recognising the value of the arts and culture in how societies come to terms with difficult conflicts and trauma, and in encouraging all members across this House to go and view this important work. This week, Secretary of State.

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My hon. Friend, is. To be applauded for having sponsored this applauded for having sponsored this exhibition. I'm delighted that he's been she's been able to tell the House about it this afternoon. I certainly pay tribute to her and to the artists for what they are doing the artists for what they are doing and the way that they are conveying the experience of their countrymen the experience of their countrymen and women to wider audiences. I'll go one better, because this debate is starting rather earlier than we might have expected.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will join her at the exhibition before it finishes at 5:00 this afternoon, and I would encourage all other hon. Members from all sides to do the same. Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm glad my hon. Friend has raised this wider question because I speak as Defence Secretary, but I speak also with pride about the the warmth and the welcome and the solidarity of the British people, because four years ago, British people started to open their homes to Ukrainians and Britain welcomed 170,000 Ukrainians into our own homes.

Many are still with those same families and community charity, faith trade union groups have all raised funds or collected supplies, and often driven those supplies out to Ukraine. Our defence industrial links, which several hon. Members from all sides have raised this afternoon, continue to deepen and we will soon start to jointly produce in the UK the new Ukrainian Octopus interceptor drones. The government has nearly has. I will

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one more time for now. John Milne I thank the Member

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John Milne I thank the Member for giving way and a number of members have drawn attention to to manufacturers in their constituencies, and I'd like to pay tribute to chess dynamics amongst constituency of Horsham who build constituency of Horsham who build world leading tracking devices and design and absolutely state of the art. But I also want to say I was art. But I also want to say I was also in Ukraine last year and I was absolutely struck by the commitment and solidarity of the Ukrainian people behind the war, as well as our support.

Despite comments to the contrary. Would would the Minister agree that, ironically, what Putin has achieved in trying to destroy Ukraine is in building an absolutely fantastic new

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national identity? Secretary of State the hon. Gentleman, first of all, is right Gentleman, first of all, is right about his some of those outstanding firms in his Horsham constituency. firms in his Horsham constituency. Secondly, he's entirely right about the impact that Putin has had on the impact that Putin has had on Ukraine not building a new sense of national identity because it was national identity because it was strong before his invasion. As I said, they had suffered occupation from Russian forces and they have done for 12 years fighting against that.

What it has done has deeply strengthened that identity, deeply strengthened that determination that they will remain a sovereign nation in future. And whatever briefings Putin is getting in the Kremlin, he's being misled to think that he is winning, he is failing, and it is our job with other allies to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. Madam Deputy Speaker, part of that is the military aid that this country has been providing to Ukraine, but its action on other fronts as well.

And the government's frozen now nearly 30 billion of Russian assets in the UK imposed over 3000 sanctions on Russian individuals, organisations and ships, including a package of 300 new sanctions announced yesterday by my right hon. Friend, the Foreign Secretary, we know that Russia's vast shadow fleet bankrolls much of Putin's illegal war in Ukraine and sanctions against it by the UK, and our partners have already forced around 200 ships to anchor out of use. We've seen the impact on Russian oil reserves.

It fell by a quarter last year. But we need to do more. We need to shift up a gear and our military, with our militaries playing a greater role. And that work has begun. The UK has already supported both US and France to conduct maritime interceptions, and at the Munich Security Conference, I chaired a meeting of the nations defence Ministers brought together to discuss conducting further operations against shadow shipping vessels. Today I can confirm the Mod is leading now a new Joint Operational Task Force to advance plans on this issue.

Madam Deputy Speaker, after four years weariness with the war would be understandable. But in Britain our solidarity endures. It's a solidarity grounded both in the deep respect for Ukrainian courage and in clear recognition that the defence of Europe starts in Ukraine. The British people understand the cost of conflict always outweighs the price of preventing war. We remember that four years ago, Putin's invasion sent inflation into double digits and our energy prices are still 40% higher, our food prices still 30% higher as we all daily pay the price of this war.

And the British people also know that if Putin succeeds in Ukraine, he will not stop in Ukraine. And they see the Ukrainians fighting for the same values that we in Britain have done in past generations. The right of a free people to decide their own country's future. And so, like the Leader of the House, the Father of the House, I'm proud that Britain's remains united for Ukraine. I'm proud that President Zelensky calls us one of his very closest allies.

And I'm proud of the UK leadership on Ukraine started under the previous government, stepped up further under ours. So let me end where I began by paying tribute to the people of Ukraine. Four years ago, we all remember those expert commentators were largely in agreement. Kyiv will be captured. Zelensky would flee, Ukrainian command would collapse, and a pro-Russian regime would be installed while the world watched on. And if this war has taught us anything, it is never to underestimate the will of the Ukrainian people.

They remain outnumbered. They remain outmatched in every domain. And yet they've recently taken retaken territory. They continue to strike deep into Russia and in some parts of the front line, over 25 Russians have been killed. For every Ukrainian life lost. So after four years of this brutal Russian aggression, four years of unbreakable Ukrainian courage, four years of enduring solidarity with those who stand with them, this must be the year peace is agreed. And now, I promise our UK promise to Ukraine is this.

We will keep up the pressure on Putin. We will stand by and support the Ukrainian armed forces. And the Ukrainian armed forces. And

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when peace comes, we will help it an it lasts. Considered the situation in

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Considered the situation in Ukraine, shadow Minister Wendy Morton. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is a critical.

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Speaker. This is a critical. Time for Ukraine and as we mark the fourth anniversary of this war, the UK must continue to proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with our Ukrainian friends. Four years on Ukrainian friends. Four years on from Putin's full scale invasion of Ukraine, we all think of the innocent lives caught up in this terrible conflict the innocent civilians, the families of brave servicemen and women, the Ukrainian children forcibly deported to Russia, all those who suffer life changing injuries and those who
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Wendy Morton Portrait Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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have lost their homes. At the start of this conflict, the then conservative government led by conservative government led by Boris Johnson, with cross-party support in this House, rallied the support in this House, rallied the world behind Ukraine. We supplied weapons, we provided humanitarian aid, we championed their cause and we opened our homes to those fleeing Putin's brutality. We must never forget that this war was started by Vladimir Putin, supported by an axis of authoritarian states seeking to extinguish democracy on our continent.

Russia's increasing reliance on Iranian drones and weaponry underlines that this conflict is no longer confined to one border. It is part of a wider alignment of regimes determined to undermine the rules based international order. And we must remain united in defending our shared values and the principle that aggressors should never succeed. It is crucial that there is a clear, united front in support of Ukraine. Recent Russian attacks, including those on Kyiv, which last year also damaged a British council building, underline why the UK and our allies must urgently deliver the military support that Ukraine needs.

Putin still aims to subjugate Ukraine. The Euro-Atlantic alliance must ensure he fears the consequences, and Russia's response to recent cease fire proposals shows why the West must remain resolute. Britain and our allies must continue maximum pressure on the Kremlin while supporting Ukraine on the battlefield. As always, it's ultimately for Ukraine as a proud and sovereign nation to decide its own future. Any settlement must secure justice and lasting people, peace for its people. Territorial concessions would reward regret aggression.

Putin has shown repeatedly he's not serious about peace. And Britain must lead the way on sanctions and on international pressure. I'm very fortunate. I had the privilege of visiting Ukraine twice, first in 2021 during my time as a foreign Minister, and again in 2023 with the Westminster Foundation for democracy, and I look forward to returning again soon. And I'm very conscious, Madam Deputy Speaker, that there are not just frontbench colleagues, but many colleagues from across this House and the Other place who travel to Ukraine, and it is such a strong and clear symbol of our unwavering support.

For me personally, each visit has left a really deep and lasting, lasting impression on me. In 2021, I remember standing alongside Ukrainian leaders at the launch of the Crimea platform, reaffirming the UK's unwavering commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. When I returned there in 2023, what a different country. It was a country that was living under the daily realities of war. I met parliamentarians, civil society leaders and local officials, many of whom had lost their loved ones.

Yet their resolve was and still is undiminished. That spirit, defiant, democratic and determined, must guide us here in our response. But one of the gravest crimes committed during this war is the abduction and forcible deportation of Ukrainian children, something that I know both sides of this House take incredibly seriously. Thousands of children have been taken from their families and communities and communities and transferred into Russia or Russian occupied territory, stripped of their identity, subjected to so-called re-education, and in many cases, illegally adopted.

This is not an unintended consequence of war. It is a deliberate policy designed to erase Ukraine's future. The International Criminal Court has issued arrest warrants in response to these crimes, but words and warrants alone are not enough. So I do hope, in summing up, the Minister may be able to set out what concrete steps the government is taking with allies and international partners to secure the return of these children and to ensure that those responsible are pursued without delay or hesitation.



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Of course, I will. Secretary of State I am really impressed and pleased that she has impressed and pleased that she has laid such a stress on Putins abduction of Ukrainian children, abduction of Ukrainian children, his attempt to brainwash them and. his attempt to brainwash them and. That that sentiment has strong support on both sides, which he recognised that my hon. Friend, the recognised that my hon. Friend, the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, is in Ukraine at the moment and has just been presented with the Ukrainian Order of Merit for

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her work on exactly this concern. If I'm really honest, Madam Deputy Speaker, I didn't appreciate that. She'd just been she just was that. She'd just been she just was in receipt of that award and recognition. But I think it is absolutely fitting. And to those absolutely fitting. And to those people outside this place who say we do nothing and they badmouth us, we do nothing and they badmouth us, it absolutely demonstrates that there are so many good people in this place. And so she rightly this place.

And so she rightly deserves that, that honour. And equally, I know there are many other people, colleagues in this place who are very, very committed to Ukraine. And I think a number of them are either in Ukraine at the moment, on their way back, maybe even some of them are heading to this chamber later. Only time will, time will tell. But it's a I'm really pleased that he he made that intervention. It's very unusual that the shadow Minister takes a are offered an intervention from the Secretary of State.

But it was it was really, really important that we we recognise that. But starting under the last conservative government, the UK support has been world leading £3 billion per year in military aid since 2024, 12 billion including total, including humanitarian assistance and advanced weapons from Storm Shadow missiles to challenger two tanks. And Operation Interflex has trained over 50,000 Ukrainian recruits on British soil. We hosted the 2023 Ukraine Recovery Conference, raising over $60 billion towards reconstruction and the 100 year partnership negotiations for which commence under the conservative government, demonstrates our shared commitment to ensure enduring cooperation across trade, security, education, science and culture.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we know that sanctions work. We also know that Russia's economy is under severe strain and that pressure must continue. This includes targeted pressure on refineries in China, Turkey and India who are buying Russian oil, mobilising frozen Russian sovereign assets to support Ukraine's war effort is crucial. The £2.26 billion UK loan from immobilised Russian assets is welcome, but more must be done and needs to be done immediately. So will the Minister tell the House what further progress has been made to unlock additional Russian assets, and why? More decisive action has not yet been taken.

The UK should lead innovative legal solutions with our allies and the City of London to make more resources available to Ukraine. Right now, like us, the United States has been deeply invested in this conflict. American security is tied to Ukraine's survival, and US military support has been indispensable. So I would like to ask the Minister if he can confirm how the government are ensuring close coordination with the US and other NATO allies on

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military aid, sanctions and strategic support. The US. Yes, of course.

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Yes, of course. I thank my hon. Friend very much for allowing me to intervene. It for allowing me to intervene. It appears that we are being teed up for some sort of deployment to Ukraine at some point in the future. Ukraine at some point in the future. Does my right hon. Friend recall that in a similar debate to this on the 3rd of March, the Prime the 3rd of March, the Prime Minister said that he was working with the US in order to provide security guarantees that are worthy of the name.

That is one that has a forward leaning European element, but a US backdrop. And you US backing. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that it would be utter folly to deploy British

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troops without those US guarantees? Wendy Morton.

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Wendy Morton. My right hon. Friend speaks with not just eloquence in this place, but so much experience, and I think we should all so often listen to some of the colleagues who bring some of the colleagues who bring that expertise and knowledge to this place. I absolutely do agree with him. I think it would be madness. Madness not to. And I madness. Madness not to. And I think it just further demonstrates the importance of working really closely with with our with our allies as we continue to support Ukraine in their, in their, in their in their endeavours and in their fight.

And when it comes to, to, to to confrontation, we must also confront the growing threat posed by Russia's so-called shadow fleet. I know the Secretary of State mentioned in his in his in his speech, these vessels are not only a sanctions loophole, but they are a direct security to our own shores as well, and to those of our allies. Reports of ship to ship transfers, insurance evasion and deceptive practices are deeply concerning. If Russia can bypass the oil price cap through this illicit network, then the effectiveness of our sanctions regime is undermined.

So I hope that later today, the Minister may be able to outline what further action the government is taking alongside partners in the G7 and NATO to crack down on this shadow fleet, to tighten enforcement in UK waters and financial markets, and to ensure that British insurers, ports and service providers are not inadvertently enabling sanctions evasion. So, as we mark the fourth anniversary of this brutal invasion, our task is clear provide Ukraine with the tools to defend itself, maintain crippling pressure on Putin and ensure peace is built on justice, not on concessions.

Ukraine's fight is our fight. If we stand firm, we strengthen our own security. If we hesitate, we embolden the aggressors everywhere. This House will. I am in no doubt, speak with clarity this afternoon. The test for the government, though, is whether their actions now will match the scale of the words. And I really hope the Minister will give us that assurance this afternoon, because Britain's support is not symbolic. It's concrete military aid, humanitarian help, sanctions enforcement and diplomatic leadership.

We must continue to lead with purpose. Ukraine's struggle is our struggle and we will stand with them until victory is secured on Ukraine's terms.
16:07
Marie Rimmer Portrait Ms Marie Rimmer MP (St Helens South and Whiston, Labour)
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Thank you.

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, can I first of all pay tribute. To the Secretary of State for

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To the Secretary of State for his excellent opening to this debate today? It gives all the details and I pay tribute to our details and I pay tribute to our opposition now, but not on this, because one thing that has been secured. I'm so proud that we've secured. I'm so proud that we've all stuck together right the way through, and there's nothing that through, and there's nothing that says and we support it's not symbolic. We know it's not symbolic. We do what we do because we love those people and we love Ukraine.

And as I said at the beginning of all this, Ukraine was fighting our war because if it gets through Ukraine, it's Europe, and then we'll be there. Well, on this solemn debate, we remember all those whose lives have been shattered by war. Yesterday marked four years since Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine, a brutal escalation of a conflict that has brought immense suffering to millions and continues to threaten the foundations of international law and human dignity. And, according to some, the start of World War three.

Yesterday I met Irina Dave Doogan, a Ukrainian woman whose quiet courage speaks louder than any statistic during Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea, she was detained, brutally abused and ultimately forced to flee her home in Donetsk. Years later, she has finally received reparations, only just now able to support and transformed her life, enabling her to access vital medical treatment and begin rebuilding what was taken from her. Yet her case is the exception, not the rule. And she begged of us last night to ensure reparations get to those women and children with been so terribly, terribly abused and not to wait for years.

Thousands of Ukrainians have endured similar horrors, first in 2014 and again since a full scale invasion began four years ago. Since 24th of February 2022, communities across Ukraine have been scarred by violence. Homes destroyed, families separated, civilians subjected to torture, sexual violence and unlawful detention. Towns once full of life have been reduced to rubble. Children have been uprooted from their families and taken across the borders. Speaking Russian now and it's just horrendous what's going on. But some have been rescued.

There is people working on it. The human cost is staggering, not only in lives lost but in futures stolen. People in my constituency and I'm sure in all of your constituencies there will be people from churches, veterans groups banding together to do their bit. For Ukraine, for example, no John Finucane UK. A. Veterinary led organisation deploying volunteers teams to deliver humanitarian aid on the ground. Their work truly demonstrates the love that we have for our brothers and sisters in Ukraine.

Our government also demonstrates ironclad support for Ukraine, our Parliament, just government. Only yesterday, the government announced a significant new package of 300 new sanctions aimed at cutting off the Kremlin's revenue and weakening its capacity to wage this illegal war, including measures targeting Russia's energy sector and key oil infrastructure. These steps are welcome, but sanctions must be adequately enforced, coordinated and relentless. And if they are not effective, they do not deter aggression. They embolden it. Yet the UK lacks a clear strategy for ensuring that frozen Russian assets serve this purpose, and are pleased with the debate today.

What has been said? Britain's can remain immobilised for years, losing value while sufferers wait for weight without support. Work, like the English spoke of last night working with our European partners, we should move decisively to seize and repurpose frozen Russian frozen assets, including up to £30 billion held in the UK, and direct them towards humanitarian, financial and military support for Ukraine. We must ensure that UK held funds linked to sanctioned individuals, including proceeds from the sale of Chelsea Football Club and recovered assets from oligarch Patrick Evan, are released swiftly and directly towards Ukrainian survivors.

We must ensure Ukraine and people receive justice. If we are serious again about justice and I know we are, we've got to make sure that our actions deliver justice and we make our word is kept and we deliver justice and peace for those people who we all are so proud of and we all owe so much to. And I'm sure they appreciate it. Yes.
16:13
16:13
James MacCleary Portrait James MacCleary MP (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
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15,000 civilian deaths and more than 40,000 injured, including at than 40,000 injured, including at least 763 children, though even the United Nations says the toll is likely much higher. That's why the likely much higher. That's why the Liberal Democrats are absolutely clear in their support. In the face of Putin's aggression and Donald Trump's unreliability, Europe must send an unambiguous signal National sovereignty is not negotiable and sovereignty is not negotiable and we will not stand idly by. We will not accept that might is right, and we will not allow Ukraine to be sacrificed at the altar of appeasement.

We all want to see peace and a just and lasting settlement. But we must be clear that Vladimir Putin has no interest in peace. He remains hell bent on the subjugation of Ukraine. While we welcome diplomatic efforts, we remain deeply concerned about the specifics of any American security guarantees. The unfortunate truth is that President Trump is unreliable, unpredictable and, to be frank, disdainful of the rule of law. And this means that Europe must step up. The UK and France have committed to a potential military deployment to Ukraine should a peace deal be agreed.

Liberal Democrats support this commitment in principle. However, Parliament must have a vote on any deployment of UK personnel. And I welcome the Prime Minister's very clear statement on that. Democratic oversight is absolutely essential. The government must also be transparent about timescales, and ensure our armed forces actually have the resources to support such a mission. It's great to hear from the Secretary of State today about the £200 million worth of funding that he has accelerated for that purpose. And, crucially, we have to have clarity at the right time about what the terms of engagement would be for those forces when even when that deployment takes place, because supporting Ukraine long term isn't just about political will, it's about practical capability to any peace settlement must focus on defending Ukraine, strengthening deterrence, and creating sustainable conditions for lasting peace.

It cannot be a deal that effectively rewards Russian aggression. The UK must ensure Ukraine's interests remain at the heart of negotiations, not Putin's territorial ambitions or Donald Trump's desire for a grubby carve up. It must be remain absolutely focussed on cutting off the resources that fuel Putin's war machine. Too many of those who comment on this conflict fail to fully understand its historical and cultural context, to speak of it as a conflict that Putin will just stop on fair terms is a failure to grasp the fact that his war in Ukraine is central now to sustaining his Mafia state and his role as its kingpin.

To speak of major territorial concessions for Ukraine is to ask them to give in to a bullying neighbour that has spent not 12 years, but in fact hundreds of years repeatedly attempting to control them and deny their right to exist as a nation. Any agreement requires a deep understanding of these countries that has been entirely absent from the rhetoric in the United States, and is also too often absent in commentators in this country. We are keen to support practical steps taken by our government, and the decision to ban UK maritime services for Russian LNG was particularly welcome.

We have been calling this for some months and it's great to see that it's finally come to fruition, but implementation has been quite slow. Since 2022, UK owned or insured LNG carriers have transported £45 billion worth of Russian products. No British British money should be supporting Russia's war. The government must move at pace to enforce the ban and it must go further. And I would welcome any updates from Ministers on that today. We have also called for the oil price cap to be lowered to $30 per barrel.

With stricter enforcement Madam Deputy Speaker, we must also confront the reality that Russia is actively circumventing sanctions through third countries. Georgia has been increasing the use of backdoor route for sanctioned goods and financial flows into Russia's economy, undermining the pressure that we and our allies are trying to apply. The UK should be prepared to sanction those facilitating that evasion, starting with Bidzina Ivanishvili, Georgia's oligarchic de facto leader whose influence has steered the country away from its Euro-Atlantic path and toward Moscow's orbit.

We must also prescribe Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in full. The IRGC is not only destabilising the Middle East, it is also directly supporting Putin's war machine, including through the provision and production of drones used to terrorise Ukrainian cities. It was also revealed to MPs on the Defence Select Committee that Russia can only maintain this war because China is bankrolling it, with some sources suggesting up to 60% of funding is coming from China. The government must increase pressure on Beijing to stop funding Putin's deadly war.

Then there's the £2.5 billion from Roman Abramovich's sale of Chelsea Football Club, money that should have helped suffering Ukrainian civilians over a year ago. Money that could have supported efforts to rescue at least some of the 20,000 children abducted by Russian forces. Liberal Democrats called urgently for these funds to be delivered. It's welcome. The government is now threatening legal action, but it shouldn't have taken this long. It also seems that everyone now agrees that we must urgently unlock frozen Russian assets.

The UK has frozen £30 billion worth under our sanctions regime, £30 billion sitting idle in British bank accounts, while Ukraine desperately needs $120 billion next year alone to resist Russia. So what exactly is blocking this? The legal framework exists. The political will. Apparently so far is lacking. The Prime Minister must personally step in and drive this forward because at this rate, we are watching Ukraine's defences stretched to breaking point whilst we sit on the very resources that could be helping them.

They are fighting for us. The least we can do is unlock the money to help them win. My hon. Friend, the Member for Bicester and Woodstock has introduced a bill to seize these frozen assets and direct the proceeds to Ukraine's defence and reconstruction. Putin must be punished, not rewarded. A government report recently also showed that UK imports from Russia had reached £1.7 billion by June last year, up from up 21% on the previous year. Perhaps Ministers can tell us what steps the government is taking to restrict this profitable trade for the Kremlin.

The international community, including this and the previous government, have rightly condemned Russia on the international stage through its illegal invasion, cyber attacks, energy coercion and interference in democratic processes. The Kremlin has demonstrated consistent disregard for international law. The UK government must maintain an unequivocal position opposing Russia's readmission to the G7 and work with allies to ensure this stance is upheld across all multilateral bodies. But Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to return to the human cost. Over 20,000 Ukrainian children have been abducted since the full scale invasion began.

As a parent with two small children at home, I find it very hard not to put myself in the place of those Ukrainian families, torn apart by concern for their missing children, cruelly snatched away as part of Putin's wider agenda to extinguish Ukrainian culture and identity. These mass abductions constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity, and any update from Ministers on what we are doing to help recover those children will be very welcome. And I also would really like to welcome the award given to the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South.

She has been a dogged campaigner on this issue, and I cannot imagine anybody more worthy of that sort of recognition. President Putin must be held accountable, and the outstanding International Criminal Court arrest warrant against him must be implemented. This country and the government must pick up the mantle of tracking down and rescuing those children to bring them home to their families where they belong. Reports from Russia paint a sobering picture of what four years of war has meant for Russia. This has meant fundamentally deformed economy, legal system and society courts clear soldiers of murder and rape because they have signed military contracts.

Recruiting has become desperately difficult. Despite enormous spending, an entire generation of young Russian men has been wiped out by this war to fulfil Putin's ambitions for Ukraine. These four years have meant something else entirely. It has meant extraordinary courage in the face of impossible odds. It has meant soldiers who began fighting in muddy trenches with artillery, now finding themselves in a war dominated by drones, a conflict that has evolved faster than anyone imagined. It has meant watching Russia systematically destroy the very things that keep people alive through the winter.

Just last month, Russian missiles tore through power stations across the country. Hundreds of thousands of people in Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia woke up to find themselves without electricity and without heating, as temperatures dropped to -20°C. This is the coldest winter Ukraine has seen in a decade, and Putin's strategy is clear if his army cannot break Ukrainian Ukraines will, he will try to freeze its people into submission because of the courage of the Ukrainian people. And I'm very proud to say, the support of allies like Britain, Russia no longer risks conquering Kyiv.

Ukraine pushed back Russians in Kharkiv and in curse of against an adversary with much greater resources. Russia has stayed on the front line. Madam Deputy Speaker Russia. Ukraine should not have to face Putin's aggression alone. Britain must continue to lead in Europe, standing shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine not just words, but in deeds with enforceable security guarantees, not empty promises. It means cutting off Putin's revenue streams completely. It means seizing frozen assets. It means democratic oversight of troop deployments. It means ensuring Ukraine's territorial integrity is non-negotiable in any peace settlement.

And it means doing everything we can possibly do to get those stolen children back to their families. Four years on, the protection of Ukraine's sovereignty must remain central to Britain's priorities because if we fail Ukraine, we fail the international

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order and we fail the international order. We invite aggression everywhere. Frank McNally.

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Frank McNally. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the opportunity to contribute to this afternoon's debate, and I welcome the remarks made by my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary and members from across the House, including the Liberal the House, including the Liberal Democrat spokesperson and the Shadow Minister. It is a debate we would rather not be having, but the actions of the Kremlin have led us
16:24
Frank McNally Portrait Frank McNally MP (Coatbridge and Bellshill, Labour)
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to this place and to the untold death, injury, suffering and death, injury, suffering and displacement of millions of Ukrainians. Up to 2 million people killed, injured or missing on both killed, injured or missing on both sides, 3.7 million Ukrainians sides, 3.7 million Ukrainians displaced internally and close to 6 million refugees. Men, women, children ripped from their homes, their work, their schools, their families, their very way of life, all at the hands of a Russian aggressor whose intransigence towards this conflict means it will continue into its fifth year.

Despite the catastrophic losses the Russians themselves have experienced. No doubt the invasion of Ukraine was a defining moment of our time. In many ways it was inevitable, however, given Putin's rhetoric and actions over the last 25 years. But the arrogance and the hubris of Russia also resulted in a vast overestimation of its might and a failure to account for the gallantry of the Ukrainian forces, as well as the robust leadership of President Zelensky and the stout resistance and resilience of the civilian population.

Far from taking Kyiv in two weeks, Putin resorts to terrorising the citizens of Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities from a distance with frequent deadly air raids. So the comments made earlier and the actions of the government are to be welcomed with regards to air defence. Now there are so many enduring and stark images from this conflict, but there are two that stand out to me, the first being the evacuations on the platforms of Lviv railway station.

Ukrainians forced to flee for their lives, never knowing if they would return a significant contingent. Almost 400, in fact, made passage to North Lanarkshire, many of whom still reside in the High Court's area of Coatbridge. In my constituency, joining a long legacy Madam Deputy Speaker over the years of successful settlement in North Lanarkshire of people fleeing crisis and dangers from across the globe, I will give way

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to more. Perhaps he's able to say something about the very important work of Ukrainian community centres work of Ukrainian community centres around Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In my own community there have been absolutely stalwart in have been absolutely stalwart in supporting the colleagues back in Ukraine, sending aid and raising funds and also maintaining funds and also maintaining Ukrainian culture through having Ukrainian language libraries and other facilities that have kept families in touch with their own

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families in touch with their own culture while they live in Britain. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am just about to touch on some of that, but we have seen that in the High Courts area of Coatbridge and the way in which the the Ukrainian community is supporting those who are fighting on the front line is absolutely admirable. But just to to to add to what my hon. Friend was mentioning there in Coatbridge, the Ukrainian population have celebrated now their national holiday.

They have organised kids clubs, formed a tenants association and Woking groups. They are now a flourishing community of Ukrainians who are celebrating their own culture and thinking about how they can contribute and what they can offer to the wider community. That open celebration of their culture by Ukrainians in Coatbridge stands in stark contrast, sadly, to the experience of Ukrainians thousands of miles away in Ukraine, where the occupied forces of Russia have sought to erase that culture and identity, and the territories that have been devastated by Russian forces over the past four years by the boundless terror, kidnap and murder that we have seen and the monstrous stealing and indoctrination of thousands of children, as has been mentioned.

And the first person, Madam Deputy Speaker, to highlight the scale of this to me was my hon. Friend, the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, who at this moment in time is the Defence Secretary highlighted is in in Ukraine receiving the Order of Merit and deservedly so. The other defining image, Madam Deputy Speaker, I recall from the early days of the war, following the liberation of of Bucha, particularly when President Zelensky walked through what had been left after the brutal massacre and war crimes that had been perpetrated by Russian forces, of which there must be full accountability.

But despite Butcher or Mykola or Mariupol or Kharkiv, Ukrainians fight on, it is, of course, vital for our own security and our moral obligation that we continue to have their back. And I greatly welcome the actions on defence spending that has been taken across the UK by this government, and it is important that we build on it. For Scotland, defence spending is worth £2 billion a year, is supporting 12,000 jobs, from the Clyde to Recife to Coatbridge and Bellshill and across the country, in addition to the strongest possible sanctions, we must also continue to support those Ukrainians who have settled here and have built a life here over the course of the last four years.

For many, while not by choice, our communities have become their home and we must always keep that at the forefront of our minds. However long this war has left to run, we must remain resolute in our support for Ukraine to support them in finding a just peace that satisfies their terms, and ensures that the depredations of Putin's regime are ended in Ukraine and never visited upon anywhere else in Europe. Yes, sir.
16:30
Roger Gale Portrait Rt Hon Sir Roger Gale MP (Herne Bay and Sandwich, Conservative)
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Roger Gale. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Could I first join with my right hon. Friend, the Father of the hon. Friend, the Father of the House, in thanking the Secretary of State for defence, for the power of State for defence, for the power of his words, and for the manner in which he has spoken for the Parliament of the United Kingdom, not just for the government. I don't think there's a member in the House that would would quarrel with anything that he said.

And the message that has to go out from here is that we are and we stand united with Ukraine. There is a danger in 2000, 2014, the Russians annexed Ukraine, Crimea, and at that time they were members of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. They were Council of Europe. They were compelled to withdraw. In 2018. That parliamentary assembly, of which the Father of the House and I were both members at the time.

Voted almost overwhelmingly to readmit the Russian Federation to the Parliamentary Assembly. The Baltic states, Georgia, Moldova and the United Kingdom fought that through the night, literally in an unprecedented display of parliamentary unity. But we lost. We were beaten hands down. The following day, the Russian delegation was back in the hemicycle in Strasbourg. I don't think it is stretching it too far to say that the message that we sent out was profoundly wrong, and almost certainly influenced the decision by Putin to believe that he could probably invade Ukraine with impunity.

It's been said over and over again, and absolutely rightly, that Ukraine is fighting for our democracy. If Putin was allowed to win, it would not stop there. It would be Georgia, it would be Moldova, and then possibly the Baltic states. Madam Deputy Speaker, and if that happens, then NATO becomes involved. Then you probably have got World War three. So the stakes are rather high and it behoves all of us, I think, to stand as firmly as we can and to send out the message that for as long as it takes means for as long as it takes.

I want to follow on from the remarks made by the hon. Gentleman, the Member for Coatbridge and Bellshill, and to concentrate a little bit of time on the diaspora. The expat Ukrainians living throughout Europe, and particularly in the United Kingdom. The Secretary of State said in his opening opening remarks that there were thousands and there are of Ukrainians yearning for the opportunity to return home. I'm sure that that is true. And he also went on to say that he hoped that there will be peace this year.

And again, Madam Deputy Speaker, I suppose, was anybody. In the House or beyond it? Probably in the United Kingdom, who doesn't want the bloodshed to stop? Ukraine has already sacrificed. The largest part of a generation of its finest young men and women. In armed conflict as well, of course, as all of those civilians who have suffered. And again, that includes those thousands of children that have been referred to many times now in this house who have been abducted and are now being indoctrinated somewhere within the neo Soviet Union.

And they have to be repatriated. But the Father of the House made the point, I think, absolutely rightly, that peace cannot mean peace at any price. If we are going to honour the dead that have sacrificed so much in Ukraine in fighting for their democracy and their country, as well as for ours. So while the Secretary of State was right to say there are thousands of Ukrainians yearning for the opportunity to return home, when that will actually be possible is a moot point.

If there is a peace and please God, there will be soon. But if there is, and if it's on a sound basis, then there will still be a phenomenal amount of reconstruction in the centre and the east of Ukraine in particular, that will have to be carried out before anybody has homes to return to. And depending upon the nature of the deal, there will be people who either will not be able to return home because it is still occupied, or their homes will have been so destroyed that physically there will be nobody, nowhere for them to go.

Of course.

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I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He makes a very powerful point about the reconstruction that will follow the peace. One of those areas will be peace. One of those areas will be in terms of mine clearance. So I think it's estimated about a quarter of Ukrainian land is now quarter of Ukrainian land is now mined, which means that Ukrainians farmers are literally farming on farmers are literally farming on the front line. And we cannot underestimate how long, how many decades it's going to take to clear those mines from that land.

So can you join me in welcoming both the funding from the government to the Halo Trust for the work that's underway, and also pay tribute to the Ukrainian farmers?

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Yeah, absolutely. Right. Both to pay tribute to the farmers and also to highlight the phenomenal difficulty in clearing mines. And the Halo trust clearing mines. And the Halo trust has, has experienced in this around the world. And it's years, not the world. And it's years, not months. So for all of those reasons, I want to say to my I was going to I want to say to my I was going to say hon. Friend on the front bench opposite the Minister.

This is a sensitive issue, but there are scores of Ukrainians living in the United Kingdom now who regard the UK as home because they've got they have no choice. Madam Deputy Speaker my wife and I have five young people that we now regard as grandchildren, 2 in 1 family and three in another. They range from teenage down to the cot. And last weekend a young lady came into my surgery. She has a 16 young in my arms. She has a 16 year old daughter who wants to go to college and like so many other young Ukrainians of that sort of age, she's now between a rock and a hard place because she doesn't know how long she's going to be allowed to remain in the United Kingdom.

There are others, professional people who can't work here would like to return home, but need to be enabled to establish a proper professional life in the United Kingdom. And I'll give the Minister one example. Doctor Elena Huska, now a personal friend of ours, the mother of two of the children, Elena is a fully qualified dentist. She's got 16 years in practice as a hospital doctor. She's not allowed to practice by the General Dental Council, in spite of the fact that the country is crying out for dentists.

And I'm told there are some 200 others like her with those qualifications. Now that is a nonsense. And Elena, every school holiday returns to Kharkiv, where her mother is living in a bombed out flat so that she can treat children and frontline soldiers who otherwise can't get dental care. But she's not allowed to practice here. I don't want to put them in as strong a spot today, but what I would say to him is we have actually got to sort out the longer term future for people who are not even regarded as refugees or classed as refugees.

They are stateless, they have no actual status in this country. We've generously initially made them welcome, but we've now reached the point where we have to take some longer term decisions. And I'd like the Minister to go back to his colleagues in the department, to the Secretary of State, to take this to Cabinet, to say we really have got to recognise, however sensitive, sensitive the immigration issue is. And I understand of course I do, that it is, but however sensitive it is, there is a group of people living in this country contributing to our way of life.

Now, culturally, as has been said earlier, who have to be regularised, they must have a pathway to settlement so that the young people can go to school, can go to college, can qualify, can build lives here. President Zelensky wants his people to return home. We want them to be able to return home. But for the moment and for the foreseeable future, that is not possible. So please, Minister, take that message away and see what can be done. Working with the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary to now regularise the position in the interests not just of them, but

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actually of the United Kingdom as well. David Taylor.

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David Taylor. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's an honour to speak in this debate, and I associate myself with debate, and I associate myself with the remarks of everyone who's spoken in the chamber so far, not spoken in the chamber so far, not least in the making, the point that there continues to be cross-party support for resolute support behind support for resolute support behind Ukraine. And there is, I believe, still resolute support for the Ukrainian people from the British people.

And I want to start by paying tribute to Ukrainians, as the hon. Member who just spoke did in our communities, who have come over from Ukraine, including the Association for Ukrainians, Great Britain, Hemel Hempstead branch, who did a march through the town centre at the weekend to mark the anniversary, the fourth anniversary of the war and continue to be an contributed outstandingly to our town. But I want to focus my remarks for May on some specific points about an area of work that I'm trying to support colleagues with around increasing amount of small vehicles and drones and supplies that are going out to help the Ukrainian people and Ukrainian
16:42
David Taylor Portrait David Taylor MP (Hemel Hempstead, Labour)
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military as well, and the work being done by a number of UK charities and individuals in this charities and individuals in this endeavour. And I went out myself as members of the House would have heard me say before, in the spring heard me say before, in the spring of 2020, for driving with a convoy of vehicles with an Estonian based charity, but with vehicles joining charity, but with vehicles joining from the UK all the way through the Channel Tunnel through Germany to Channel Tunnel through Germany to the Russian Polish border, I should say, and then overnight into Kyiv.

And it was an incredible honour to be part of that, because I come myself from a humanitarian background. I've worked for charities including Oxfam in the past, and I support the need for the vital work that humanitarian aid organisations do day in, day out. But I've also always believed back from when I first had the opportunity to go to Kosovo, that we should be not be shy about the need for military support as well. And that's something that was I felt I personally wanted to contribute by being part of this convoy, and the organisation helped.

99 does. It is one of a number around Europe that contributes in this way, and some of them do deliver humanitarian aid to some of them are delivering fire trucks, fire aid, as a brilliant organisation that is being supported by, I believe, member opposite Mr. Blackman, I forgive me, I forget his constituency, they're doing brilliant work. There's another organisation that is taking out former ambulances to be used out there as well. There's a number of organisations including pick ups for peace UK.

For Europe, Surrey Stands with Ukraine and others. I won't list all of them, but I had the opportunity to invite a number of them to Parliament last year for an event. We did about 60 individuals representing 30 such organisations and I want to pay tribute to the incredible work that they are doing day in, day out and putting their own lives at risk to go not just to the Polish border, but, as I said, into Ukraine and often beyond Kyiv, but in to the west of the country as well.

And so there's a couple of points that I want to make about how we might be able to support these efforts more. First of all, what the UK government perhaps could be doing to supply more vehicles that are perhaps on the government estate but are reaching their end of life that could be used with relatively little cost to the UK taxpayer. Now I'll just take a moment to step back and say why these vehicles matter. Because the 4.5 billion that we'll be providing this year alone is testament to the fact that we need hard power going into Ukraine.

No one is arguing anything otherwise. But these small vehicles do have an important contribution to make. They help soldiers get from A to B with ease. They help to get supplies in. They often some of them have been turned into makeshift ambulances because of course, the Russians would target anything that was white with a red cross on it. These are vital things that the soldiers also need. And there are vehicles, Land Rovers that National Network Rail may own on their estate that could easily be written off and donated as well.

And to that end, I've written to a number of government departments, including Defra, the Home Office, DESNZ and the Department of Transport asking if these surplus and end of life vehicles could be donated. I've also argued that with the new powers that the police have to seize off road vehicles driven in anti-social behaviour in anti-social way in this country, instead of them being crushed. As satisfying as that is to a lot of us, I'm sure. Could they actually be donated? You know, we have quad bikes, dirt bikes and scramblers that actually soldiers in the forests in Ukraine could find quite helpful.

However, unfortunately, some of the responses I've had from the letters I've sent in have shown that there is perhaps a need for a single accountable body that could coordinate this effort better. I don't count the mod in this regard. They've set out some of the excellent work they're already doing in this way, but maybe some of the other government departments could work better together to get some of these vehicles to be donated. And that does include Her Majesty's Treasury. You know, these are as assets, public assets.

There does need to be a decision to be made that we are going to write them off, and that is creating some of the bottlenecks and delays that I've encountered. And like I say, I do think that this is a relatively small cost to the taxpayer overall. So I would argue that it is worth doing. The second point that I want to make is regarding the support for the charities themselves. So I, ahead of this debate, sent a message around the group that I brought together last year to ask if they had specific suggestions that they'd like me to raise today.

And so here's just a few. One is that came from the the organisation Surrey stands with Ukraine is could there be some form of a list that enabled humanitarian charities in the UK to seek some sort of recognition or approval that they could then use to go in and ask for donations from the public or private sector? So, for example, you know, if there was some sort of list that said these organisations are have a track record of delivering to Ukraine in an effective way, they might be able to get some form of, of letter that they could then take to their local NHS trust to say, you know, we're a serious outfit, we've got the right intentions, we've got some approvals and checks.

You know, if you've got ambulances that you don't need, can we have them that they could take to food companies that are supermarkets to help speed up the donation of food for some of their humanitarian convoys and so on. Another point that they made is around the actual travel over the channel itself, whether it's on ferry or via the Channel Tunnel. I wonder whether or not there's some discussions that could be had with some of those private operators, the Channel Tunnel and the ferry companies by the government to maybe encourage them to offer some kind of discount or even waive the fee of the cost of getting these vehicles over the channel, because that when it adds up, you've got a convoy of about 20 different vehicles is not an insignificant amount of of money related to that, they've also asked if there can be more to be done to remove customs red tapes where they exist with not just in terms of that UK border, but all the way through to Ukraine.

I myself have encountered this a ridiculous amount of orders spent waiting at the Polish border because of a minor piece of paperwork that was missing, when really, the Polish authorities should be doing much more to enable these vehicles to be driven over the border with much more ease. So I wonder if there's more we can do to have some of those discussions. The other thing is around a final point on on this front is around drone nets. So as we know, drones are a constant threat from the Russians.

A number of organisations are bringing over old fishing nets. And on this point, I'd like to pay tribute in a cross-party way to the Scottish Government, who I think a few days ago announced that they would be donating upwards of 200,000 Scottish fishing nets. Small thing, but it helps protect some cities on the Western Front from incursions from Russian drones. And it may also I've seen pictures of them over highways, you know, just protect some of the convoys of vehicles coming through from Russian drones.

So those are some practical suggestions. As I said earlier, no one is suggesting, certainly not they, that these these interventions alone are going to be enough to push the Russians back. In fact, it would be remiss of me not to say that they said almost the opposite. They did want me to make the point that it is vital, as their work is. It is incredibly important that we continue to provide the hard power and the military aid, and I'm proud that our government is doing that.

But it is really a message to the whole of the West. And I do want to reference a point that the right hon. Member for New Forest East made about the need for long range missiles as well. So on that note, I, I hope when the Minister gets a chance to wind up that he will reflect on some of the points. I would say, I would say as a final plea that the organisations themselves would love an opportunity to meet with the Minister or officials to discuss some of the challenges they're facing and practical ways we can

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help increase the support we're giving to Ukraine. Thank you. And the hon. Gentleman will have

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And the hon. Gentleman will have seen me reach for the book. The constituency name he was looking for was Harrow East. I thought it

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for was Harrow East. I thought it was West Brian Mathew. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Today we pause to reflect on the last four years since the full invasion of Ukraine, on the lives lost and forever changed. We mark not only the immense suffering caused, but also to reaffirm our solidarity with the Ukrainian people. In my constituency of Melksham and Devizes, and no doubt in many others across the country, solidarity has gone beyond words. Families fleeing the war have become part of our communities, become neighbours, colleagues, classmates and friends.

Their resilience and determination to continue living their lives have
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Brian Mathew Portrait Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)
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enriched our towns and villages, even as the hearts, their hearts remain tied to loved ones in remain tied to loved ones in Ukraine. I give an example of Elaine, a dental professor now Elaine, a dental professor now working as a dental nurse in Bradford on Avon. As there are difficulties with the recognition difficulties with the recognition of her qualifications, something that Ministers might like to that Ministers might like to address. Our region has also played a direct role in supporting Ukraine's defence.

Ukrainian troops have trained on Salisbury Plain alongside British forces, to prepare to defend their country and their freedom. In Melksham, down the road from my office, local business Avon Protection and their workers have manufactured vital protective equipment, sending thousands of gas masks. A small local part of an extraordinary international effort. And for this I thank the Secretary of State for defence for his help personally with the funds needed to make this happen. I must also recognise the power of voices raised in opposition to war and pleading for peace.

Ukrainian campaigners in our communities, up and down the country have been constant, continually speaking out for justice and accountability. I also stand with those members of the Free Russia community in the UK, like the members of the Russia Democratic Society, who I met in London last weekend at a demonstration outside the Russian embassy, who showed great courage in standing up against Putin's aggression and repression, often at immense personal cost. This anniversary is a is a moment of remembrance, but it's also a call to action.

This is not a distant war of the past, but one raging as we speak. The people of this country stand firmly with Ukraine, and I hope the government will continue to do all it can to protect Ukraine's sovereignty. We must stand firm in these increasingly difficult times against tyranny and defend the principles of democracy, sovereignty and peace. Ukraine's fight is not a distant one. It's felt on the streets of our constituencies and in the corridors of this place. Members may like to join me tonight in portcullis House at 7:30 p.m.

to hear members of the Lviv National Philharmonic Orchestra play in recognition of the fourth anniversary of the

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invasion. Thank you. Yeah. Aphra Brandreth.

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Aphra Brandreth. The. Contributions from Honourable and right hon. Members this afternoon have been a powerful afternoon have been a powerful reminder of the unity that exists across this House and indeed across our country, in steadfast support our country, in steadfast support of the Ukrainian people. In April 2025, I had the privilege of visiting Ukraine alongside fellow visiting Ukraine alongside fellow members of the Foreign Affairs Committee and seeing first hand the courage and determination of Ukraine's leadership, its armed forces and its citizens has stuck with me.

It's reinforced the importance that we continue to stand by Ukraine, and it's also
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Aphra Brandreth Portrait Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)
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made me even more grateful for our armed forces, who every day stand armed forces, who every day stand ready to protect all of us. When we think of war, our minds often turn first to the battlefield. Yet war's first to the battlefield. Yet war's cruelty extends far beyond the front line, and the impacts can of it can reach into homes and families. And one example of that is in the horrific impact of this is in the horrific impact of this conflict on Ukrainian children.

The treatment of Ukrainian children by Russian forces has been abhorrent, reflecting the same brutality and disregard for humanity that has characterised this invasion. From the outset. Children have been killed, injured and displaced by this war and at the same time, as other members have noted, Russia has deported at least, but likely far more than 20,000 Ukrainian children to Russia every day. Madam Deputy Speaker, Ukrainian parents face the unthinkable reality of their children being taken from them. While the exact numbers are disputed, we know the true figure is likely far higher than reported and that alone should concern us all.

I want to pay tribute to Save Ukraine, who I met during my visit, and the other organisations all working tirelessly to locate and rescue children abducted by Russian forces. They have brought hundreds home and deserve our deepest admiration and thanks. But for every child return, many more remain missing and we must confront the grim reality that many of these children are subjected to indoctrination, pressured to abandon their identity, their culture, and even their own families. Addressing this crisis demands determined international support, and the UK must stand ready to play its part.

Madam Deputy Speaker, whilst this war is being fought on the battlefield in Ukraine, there are lessons for us here in the UK that we must learn from this conflict, because this war has shown us that whilst high intensity attritional conflict has not gone away, the character of war is changing for years on. This is a grinding struggle of endurance, fought not only with artillery and armour, but with technology that is reshaping how force is applied. One lesson is unmistakeable the rise of drones and autonomous systems.

These unmanned systems are now central to the battlefield. They are relatively cheap, widely available, and capable of inflicting serious damage. They have lowered the barrier to air power and, given small units unprecedented reach, future wars will almost certainly feature drones as a core component of operations. So we must ask, are we adapting quickly enough? We need to learn not only how to use these systems, but how to defend against them. And recent reporting on exercises in Estonia illustrated this starkly.

A small team operating unmanned systems was reportedly able to destroy multiple armoured vehicles in a matter of hours. That is the reality of modern warfare. Low cost, high impact. We must ensure our armed forces are prepared for that reality. Equipped, trained and funded to meet it. Thankfully, Ukraine has adapted with remarkable speed and courage the use of drones and semi-autonomous systems, integrated cyber and electronic operations, and flexible, resilient supply chains have all been decisive. At the same time, this war has reminded us that some fundamentals never change.

Logistics matter, supply lines matter, endurance matters. Armies still need ammunition, equipment and the ability to sustain operations. Over time, Ukrainian forces have shown how innovation, rapid decision making and coordination across land, sea, air and cyber can offset a larger opponent. They have taken the fight to Russian forces in ways few predicted at the start of this invasion. The lesson is clear modern warfare is not just about numbers. It is about adaptability, resilience and the ability to evolve faster than your adversary.

So as we rightly admire Ukraine's heroism, we must also ask ourselves a serious question are our own armed forces equipped, organised and funded to meet that same test? Because adaptation requires investment, and that is a conversation that must involve not only the Ministry of Defence, but the Treasury as well. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to turn briefly to talk about one more aspect of the war in Ukraine and the lessons we can take from it. From the moment Russian tanks illegally crossed the border from Crimea into Ukraine, Britain and His Majesty's Government has stood foursquare behind our friends in Kyiv.

We have provided financial support, we have trained Ukrainian troops and we have convened international partners. We ought to be proud of the support we have given to Ukraine, both the previous government and the current. But as this war marks its fourth year since the full scale invasion, we must not let our unity and support be worn down by Russia. A lasting and just peace must be the aim, and I support efforts to end the war as quickly as possible. But as President Zelensky has said, we know appeasement is not the answer and that Putin is an irrational actor who will seek only, who will see only weakness.

If we if we, the West, were to give in to his demands. We learned this lesson before and we must remember it today. We must continue to strengthen the international coalition in support of Ukraine, not to allow it to be worn down. And as we stand resolute in our support alongside our partners, I would urge the government to continue to work with allies, in particular the United States, to reiterate how valuable they are to the collective stance we are taking against tyranny in the form of Putin.

Madam Deputy Speaker, Ukraine's courage has shown us both the brutality of aggression and the strength of a nation determined to defend its freedom. Our duty is now clear. We must continue to stand firmly with Ukraine, resist the temptation of complacency, and ensure that Britain is fully prepared for the realities of modern conflict. That means sustained support for Kyiv, renewed resolve amongst our allies and serious investment in our own armed forces. It is not enough to be the coalition of the willing.

We must be the coalition of the prepared, prepared to deter, prepare to defend and prepare to lead. Thank you Richard Foord.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, last night I joined with the last night I joined with the Minister of State for the Armed Forces and the former leader of the Forces and the former leader of the Conservative Party, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green, Trafalgar Square, for a Green, Trafalgar Square, for a rally for Ukraine. And it was a rally for Ukraine. And it was a really moving event. The the hosts from all across the UK, the Ukrainian families, the children, the mothers, the wives and and and other relatives will gathered in Trafalgar Square, that place where on the 8th of May 1945, Brits welcomed victory in Europe.

And in my speech today, I want to set out
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Richard Foord Portrait Richard Foord MP (Honiton and Sidmouth, Liberal Democrat)
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So as I thank the the Ukrainian people for their courage and determination, I also want to talk determination, I also want to talk about what we're not doing right here in the UK, and I feel like we can go so much further with respect can go so much further with respect to economic sanctions on Russia. Firstly, I want to just address some comments that the former Prime Minister Boris Johnson made on the Laura Kuenssberg Sunday programme, where he talked about there being, quote, no logical reason that I can see why we shouldn't send some peaceful ground forces to show our support, our constitutional support for a free, independent Ukraine.

I mean, I just want to to dwell on the idea of sending peaceful ground forces we don't have in the British Army, peaceful ground forces. What we have is war fighters, and we have war fighters because the war fighters make the best peacekeepers. But be in no doubt that there is some, you know, there is no distinction between a war fighter and a peacekeeper. And so the notion of peaceful ground forces is really for the birds.

I think rather we need to double down on what we are doing currently, which is proving very successful at keeping the Russians at bay. And that is first and foremost with economic sanctions. The price of Urals crude, Russia's main grade of crude oil, now trades at 25 to 30% discount compared to our own Brent crude, and exports are at their lowest since they have been since 2020. Oil and gas Budget receipts for the Kremlin halved in January year on year, to just under 400 billion rubles.

The British government announced in October last year that it would ban all imports of oil products refined in third countries from Russian origin crude oil, and alongside this, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said at the time we will hold to account all those enabling his illegal invasion of Ukraine. But, and I know that the Minister for North America and Europe has has appeared in front of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and we talked about sanctions and the work that his department, the FCDO, does on identifying entities to sanction is good, but it could go so much further.

The centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air has found that refineries in countries like India, Turkey and Brunei continue to use Russian crude oil and this continues to be exported to Europe and to the UK. That said, the EU has now imposed a complete ban on imports from third countries. They brought that in on the 21st of January. The ban on direct imports coming into force in the UK in 2022 has had a so-called refining loophole. This refining loophole has enabled the import of £4 billion of jet fuel and other products.

Other oil products made at refineries in India and Turkey, which run partially on Russian crude. And the estimate by this, this research centre, is that £1.6 billion worth of products imported from these refineries would have been made with imported Russian oil. Now our constituents will hear those figures and will put those in one hand and then look at the other hand at the £3 billion of taxpayers money that we are rightly giving to Ukraine every year at the moment.

And they will not be able to reconcile the two, and nor should they be. We have to properly sanction the Russian Federation. I just want finally to say that we have to thank the Ukrainians for their courage and determination. I

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will thank you. Given we Madam Deputy Speaker. I wondered if you would join

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I wondered if you would join with me in recognising recent opinion polling that has shown the UK remains steadfast in its support amongst population for the people of Ukraine, and that part of that is local associations like that in Glasgow, of Ukrainians who promote Ukrainian culture and remind us all of the contribution that they are making to our country.

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making to our country. I think the hon. Member makes an excellent point. And and that Ukrainian culture was on full display last night at that Trafalgar Square rally to to conclude, we are sometimes at the moment talking down NATO and certainly the European parts of NATO, and we shouldn't do it because what we have in NATO is the strongest military alliance the world has ever seen. And Putin should be in no doubt about the intent of NATO states to fulfil our NATO obligations, including to such NATO members as Estonia and Latvia, that have Russian minority populations.

Speaking at the rally yesterday evening, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green reminded us of a quote from Churchill give us the tools and we will finish the job. Something that Churchill said to the British people and to indeed to allies across the water in 1941. And this applies very much to today. We also need to think about how we give Ukraine the tools it needs to finish the job. But more than that, we need to deprive Russia of tools too, so that it can no longer wage this war of aggression against a people who want what we have and sometimes take for granted in this country democracy and liberty.

Thank you.

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Ben Obese-Jecty Madam Deputy Speaker. Putin has. Already started World War three.

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Already started World War three. The question now is how much territory he is able to seize and how to stop him. Russia wants to be how to stop him. Russia wants to be able to impose on the world a different way of life, and change the lives people have chosen for themselves. So said President Zelensky as he marked the fourth anniversary of the conflict in Ukraine following Russia's illegal invasion. Madam Deputy Speaker, it invasion. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is humbling to address the House in this debate today.

As we enter the fifth year of this conflict, seemingly without end, as peace talks falter at the current impasse, the last four years of conflict in Ukraine have been savage, unrelenting, a level of total war that we have been fortunate enough to become unacquainted with in this country during any of our lifetimes. The toll this has taken on the civilian population has been horrific. Over 15,000 Ukrainian civilian deaths, thousands more displaced and entire population whose lives have been put on hold forever changed, lives lost, families devastated, future hopes and dreams shattered.

And yet Ukraine has held firm against the Russian onslaught. It did in 2022, as it does today. The government has remained steadfast in its support for Ukraine, and that support extended to the government when they too were in opposition. When we were in government, we stood foursquare with Ukraine from the very start. We were the first nation to openly back the Ukrainian forces with weapons. This House has been united in its support and that support has been vital. That support is not only to protect Ukrainian sovereignty in the face of such flagrant disregard for international law, but also represents the flot, the forward line of own troops for the defence of Europe.

We have all seen the changes that this war has brought a new Cold War, maybe even a phoney war, a generational leap in the nature of warfare in just four years that has catapulted drones from a nerdy hobby to a horrific Black mirror and reimagining of modern warfare. Anyone who has seen

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Ward. I thank the hon. Gentleman for

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I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He's talking about drones, and a couple of weeks ago I was at the Munich Security Conference where I had the privilege of hearing President Zelensky speak. He said that last month, the month of January, month, the month of January, Ukraine was attacked by more than 6000 Shahed drones, which are, of course, made in Iran or in Russia course, made in Iran or in Russia based on Iranian design. I wonder if he agrees with me that the sheer scale of bombardment that Ukraine faces from these drones and from these countries who wish our country ill as well, is just one reason why our country is right to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
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Ben Obese-Jecty Portrait Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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I would wholeheartedly concur >> I would wholeheartedly concur with that view, and I think the Iranians in particular, are the global leaders in exporting terror global leaders in exporting terror backing, as they do the Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas as well. And so their their provision of the drone to to Russia, that bombardment that the Ukrainians face is a terrible, terrible toll and a terrible result of the way that this has been been put forward. Anyone who has seen any of the innumerable videos of FPV drone footage of individual soldiers being stalked and killed by drones cannot fail to appreciate the new reality of modern warfare.

The last year alone has seen Russia increase its use of drones by 200% to to the hon. Lady's point. This capability sea change cannot be overstated. Four years into Putin's three day special military operation, Russia have sustained a staggering 1.2 million casualties, 325,000 of them fatalities. And to put that into context, that is fast approaching the number of soldiers that we lost in the entirety of the Second World War. The majority of casualties now are caused by drones. Reportedly, 70 to 80% is reported that Russia can no longer recruit new soldiers at the rate they are being lost.

And in the past fortnight, Ukraine has liberated 300km² in its southern counteroffensive. Four years into this conflict and the remarkable bravery of the Ukrainian armed forces remains undiminished. Yes, we've supported them with material intelligence, rapid procurement funding, but the human sacrifice required to win or, crucially, not lose a war of sovereignty and survival is something we perhaps do not address enough. 55,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since 2022, more than two thirds of the size of our regular army. From the contributions this afternoon, it is clear that on both sides of this House we want to see an end to this conflict and an end on Ukraine's terms, one that does not see them acquiesce to the Russian threat.

They have given so much to keep at bay. But in the broader context of European security, what comes next? There are significant lessons to be learned from the conflict in Ukraine. No war has been as visually documented at such close quarters as this. The lessons exploitation sell at the Land Warfare Centre will have been busy shaping our future tactics, an example of which is the recently released outcome of NATO's exercise Hedgehog 2025, in Estonia, whereby training against experienced Ukrainian drone operators, a team of just ten were able to render two battalions combat ineffective in just half a day.

We are through the looking glass. Last Saturday, the defence Secretary wrote a piece for The Telegraph newspaper where he explicitly stated I want to be the defence secretary who deploys British troops to Ukraine because this will mean that the war is finally over. But to paraphrase Winston Churchill, that will simply be the end of the beginning. The Minister doesn't need me to tell him that the cease fire will simply facilitate a reconstitution of Russian forces. To use an old adage, Russia will trade space for time.

And when they return to their barracks to the Leningrad Military District, they will be based only a few minutes from the Estonian border. Pskov, the home of the 76th Guards Air Assault Division and the second Spetsnaz Brigade, is just 35km away. Our commitment to the NATO foreign land forces already on the line in Estonia via Operation Cabrit, one of our ongoing commitments the battlegroup deployed there serves as a deterrent to further Russian expansionism and belligerence. No longer just a strategic tripwire, it is a force now equipped with the capability in Project Asgard that presents a lethal recce strike system, a force whose very presence provides Estonia with the security of the NATO umbrella, a force so vital its ongoing presence is

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apparently written into Estonia's defence strategy. I'll give way. Mike Martin. I thank him. For giving way, and he's making

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For giving way, and he's making an excellent speech. Whilst we want the war in Estonia, in Ukraine to end, and of course, we want Britain to play a key leading role in that, to play a key leading role in that, including, if appropriate, the provision of troops. Does he not share my fear? When we zoom out and share my fear? When we zoom out and look at the geopolitical context that putting troops in Estonia, in Ukraine stops us from guarding other areas on the eastern flank and, to use military terminology, fixes most of our forces there where they might be needed elsewhere.



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I thank the hon. Member for his contribution. I hope he hasn't stolen a look at my speech in advance as I'm about to come on to advance as I'm about to come on to to just that. But I do agree with him, and I think the point that he's making there is potentially a he's making there is potentially a trade off to be made between putting troops on the ground in Ukraine and putting troops on the ground in the high north. And there ground in the high north.

And there is a possibility that doing both of those things to the sufficient level that we require may prove to level that we require may prove to be too much of a challenge. We are committed in Estonia, just as we are to be committed in Ukraine. It's previously been reported that a commitment to a post-ceasefire force would be around 7500 troops smaller than our commitment in Afghanistan, but that reflects the difference in posture. While 7500 doesn't sound like a lot, only circa 10% of the current army.

It doesn't reflect that. You need three times that number to sustain that deployment. By the time you're on the second six month rotation through Ukraine, you have 7500. You've just returned from the first tour, the second 7500 currently doing the job, and the next 7500 training to go 22,000 odd from a field army of say, 40,000 means over half of the army will be committed to manning the eastern flank deterrence line. It was reported in the Telegraph yesterday that multiple members of the coalition of the willing have privately conceded that their contribution to the Post-ceasefire peacekeeping mission depends upon permission from Vladimir Putin.

So could the Minister, in his summing up, confirm whether every country in the coalition of the willing has committed to deploying troops to the peacekeeping mission in Ukraine, alongside ourselves include the aforementioned battlegroup in Estonia, and that's another 3000 operating on the same cycle. Factor in ongoing commitments like NATO's Allied Reaction Force special Operations component, which we lead for the next year. Thurrock, the resident infantry battalion in Dhekelia, as well as the process of retraining and rearming for the plethora of planned new capabilities and the number of personnel, quickly adds up under the readiness of multiple commitments.

With the Prime Minister announcing our commitment to Operation Firecrest this year with the Carrier Strike group, as well as the expanded Royal Marines commitment in Norway, and suddenly our armed forces are on the cusp of looking overstretched, doubly so in the event that anything else comes into scope or goes hot. I highlight these challenges to draw out the complexity of the broader strategic issue. The only way this level of operational commitment will be feasible is if, like our European allies, we properly fund defence.

That's why we've called upon the government to go faster and spend 3% of GDP on defence by the end of this parliament, in order to ensure they can deliver the 62 recommendations in the Strategic Defence Review already. But the Defence Investment Plan itself is six months late, strongly suggesting that the plan as it stands is unaffordable. So can the Minister confirm that it will finally be published before the Easter recess? It is imperative that the plan addresses the growing capability gaps as warfare spiral develops in Eastern Europe.

To conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe we are on a collision course with a Russia that is on a war footing, that is replenishing its lost equipment, and that is re-arming fast. Putin will only take us seriously when he sees our factories producing at wartime rates. And that's what I believe so strongly in the need to rebuild our own national, national arsenal and reconnect society with its armed forces. The urgency could not be clearer. Just ask yourself if you knew that our soldiers would be involved in large scale combat operations in 2027, what would you be doing differently and why are you not doing it? Those aren't my words, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Those are the words of the chief of the General Staff, General Sir Rowley Walker. He said them yesterday as we marked the fourth anniversary of Vladimir Putin's needless and tragic war. I'm sure everyone in this House would agree. I hope we're not here to mark a fifth Slava Ukraini Monica Harding.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Any contribution to this debate surely must start with a tribute to surely must start with a tribute to the remarkable courage of the Ukrainian people. Four years ago, at the start of Vladimir Putin's brutal, full scale invasion of Ukraine, many expected Russian around 80% of its territory, and the Russian troops move at glacial speed with an astonishing and tragic number of Russians dead, young men sent to fight for an imperialist autocrat, a self-indulgent dream that has become his nightmare, stopped by the resistance of the Ukrainian people, by their extraordinary resilience, innovation and sacrifice.

And we have heard already about that sacrifice that Ukrainians have suffered more than half a million military casualties.
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Monica Harding Portrait Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)
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At least 15,000 civilians have been killed and millions have been forced from their homes, towns and cities relentlessly bombarded, hospitals, schools targeted. And hospitals, schools targeted. And that line that they have held for four years is the line that separates us all in Europe and here in the UK from a brutal authoritarian dictatorship and the authoritarian dictatorship and the threat to liberal democracy that Putin wants to destroy because liberal democracy threatens him. Britain has stepped up, and I am proud to be on these benches and look around to the cross-party consensus that Ukraine is not alone in its fight and that we stand with them.

And as Putin seeks to reduce Ukraine to a dependent and weakened state, we must be absolutely clear sovereignty is not a bargaining chip. Any peace must be shaped by Ukrainians themselves. And I urge the government to continue to work closely with our allies to ensure Ukraine is not strong, armed into an unjust and unstable peace. The war has given rise to Europe's largest displacement crisis since the Second World War. 7 million Ukrainians now live abroad as refugees, with a further 5 million displaced within their own country.

And I want to note the 700 odd Ukrainians in my constituency of Esher and Walton. You are very welcome and we are proud to have you and to pay tribute to residents in my constituency who opened up their homes generously, and to the work of Elmbridge Borough Council and our local charity, the brilliant Elmbridge Can, who have housed and helped families integrate. Ukrainians are now making Esher and Walton richer teaching in our schools, including Walton Lea, chefs, carers, nurses and Father Rosalind, the parish priest at Earconwald Catholic Church in Walton.

Among them are Tetiana and Elena, who once ran their own tourist company in Kyiv. When war broke out four years ago, they put their children in cars and drove across Europe to stay with host families. In my constituency today they are rebuilding their lives, running a garden in business while studying garden design and as one of their husbands continues to fight on the front line and one of their boys is at college, having excelled at his GCSEs. We are lucky to have them with us.

Another Elena, living in Thames Ditton, has three children, two at secondary school and one at university and she told me we are deeply grateful to the UK for the safety, support, protection and kindness that we have received. We are doing everything we can to rebuild stable, productive lives working, paying taxes, learning the language and our children are growing up in British schools. We want to not only rebuild our lives, but also to give back to the country that helped us in our most difficult times.

The greatest challenge we face today, though, is uncertainty about our future. If we are required to return because the war is considered over, my greatest fear would be for my children. They have already integrated here. They have friends, education, routines and a sense of emotional stability. Again after displacement and trauma, forcing them to start over for a second time would be a profound psychological strain for many families, the end of active war does not mean life is safe or normal.

Homes have been destroyed, communities damaged. Some people simply have nowhere to go. So the 24 month visa is welcome. But it still leaves many families living within uncertainty. We Liberal Democrats are calling for an automatic visa extensions, a clear route to long term status, trauma informed education for children and already contributing. So communities. Another one of my constituents, Graham, has offered his home to Ukrainian guest Christina. She is desperate to unite with her parents, but the reintroduction of biometric requirements forcing people to travel to cities under nightly attack is making this extremely dangerous.

I urge the government to address this issue as soon as possible. Let me now turn to the aid situation. It is reassuring that the government has decided to protect overseas aid for Ukraine this year. But while I welcome, the increase is modest and at a moment when global aid flows are collapsing, it will do not do as much as we would like. At the same time, the government has decided to slash overseas aid, meaning that it will become harder for us to sustain aid flows to Ukraine in the coming years.

This is a strategic mistake because overseas aid is not charity. It is an investment in our own security. A stable Ukraine deters Russian aggression across Europe. It sends a clear message that borders cannot be redrawn by force. It raises the cost of future wars. Poverty and hardship in any country sends people into the arms of those who offer a populist, easy message. Aid stabilises societies. It prevents crises from spiralling into conflict, displacement and insecurity that ultimately reaches our shores.

And Ukraine shows what continuous serious aid flows can achieve. Our support has helped keep a country under siege functioning. It has strengthened civilian morale and it has reinforced a frontline state standing between Europe and authoritarian expansion. That is what properly aid funded, funded aid looks like, and I hope the government does not throw away the progress it has made and reverses course on the aid cuts as soon as possible. The the Liberal Democrats are calling on the government to take bold action.

First, we must scale up our military and bring forward plans to reach 3% of GDP on defence as quickly as possible, instead of waiting until the next decade. Our armed forces have been hollowed out such that we now have the lowest troop numbers in over 200 years, while stockpiles have become depleted. That weakens support for Ukraine and makes us feel less safe here at home. And let me be clear. Defence must not come at the expense of development. It is a false and dangerous narrative to pitch the one against the other.

And as the US general and Secretary of State Jim Mattis said, if you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition, ultimately. Second, we must hit the Russian war machine where it hurts. Over £30 billion worth of frozen Russian assets sit in the UK alone, and the Liberal Democrats have introduced legislation for these to be seized and redirected to Ukraine's defence and reconstruction. And I urge the government to put this into law as soon as possible. We should also work with G7 partners to lower the oil price cap, cutting directly into Putin's war profits.

And third, accountability matters. The war crimes that we have seen in this tragic conflict, from the attacks on humanitarian convoys to the missile strikes on churches and children's playgrounds, to the abduction of an estimated 35,000 Ukrainian children, have shocked the conscience of the world. I went to see the ICRC in Geneva and saw the records of soldiers and the work they are doing to reunite families and children and identify the missing so that their families can have closure. I applaud their quiet work.

International law must be upheld, and war criminals like Putin must not be allowed to act with impunity. The rules based order is under attack, making the work of vital international institutions such as the United Nations and the International Criminal Court even more important. In this climate, and of course, NATO, Putin would like nothing more than for the UN and NATO to collapse. So we must protect it. And I urge the government to continue full throated support for these vital entities and resist pressure from the United States to ignore or defy them.

So today, four years on, we are proud to still stand with Ukraine. Let us not allow Ukraine to be forced into a settlement that rewards aggression and leaves all of us less safe, because the Ukrainian people are fighting not just their war, but our war. They deserve nothing less than our full, unwavering commitment. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I may, I want to end with a poem written by Nikita Barking, my constituent Ukrainian, who is nine and at school in Oatlands.

Mum. Me and one suitcase. Three of us only. I left my cat. I left my dog. And all my dreams behind in the fog. I was just five but looked like more because I knew the world of war, new country, language, school and friends. Thanks to everyone who helps. I started to smile and play the games and I can start to hope again. I want the world to see my joy. Peace is the biggest dream of a Ukrainian boy.
17:29
Ian Roome Portrait Ian Roome MP (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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Yeah. It gives me great pleasure being one of the last speakers to be involved in such a unifying debate across all sides of this House, where we can all agree on the same where we can all agree on the same thing. So it gives me great pleasure in saying that I'd like to associate myself with all those members who have spoken before me today across this House. Yeah, this country should be immensely proud of the support it has given to Ukraine in their hour of need.

The Kremlin has thrown international law onto the bonfire, but the Ukrainian people are defending their homeland bravely against a brutal invasion. We have seen scenes of trench warfare, scenes of civilians being evacuated on trains or sheltering from air raids in underground stations, things we thought we had left behind in the last century. But far from collapsing in days, as Putin believed, the Ukrainians have shamed the Russian army at every turn without British support. Things might have been very different.

The full list of military capabilities the UK has given the Ukrainian defence effort is eye opening. We must commend our world class armed forces, who have trained more than 62,000 Ukrainian personnel, a number, a number fast approaching the size of the entire British Army. We have given thousands of anti-tank missiles, artillery units and armoured vehicles, specialist air defence systems, radar systems and long range cruise missiles. More than 10,000 drones, search and rescue helicopters, electronic warfare equipment, night vision, body armour and medical essentials.

A lifeline worth more than £21 billion thanks to the hard work of the Pickwell Foundation, my own constituency of North Devon have sheltered more than 230 Ukrainian evacuees, as have countless communities across the country. As we've heard in this House today. Last year, I visited Kyiv with the Defence Select Committee. A poignant moment for me personally was when our delegation paid our respects at the wall of remembrance of those fallen. Just seeing those photos, multitude of photos on that wall, brings it home to you.

And all those families who are now have lost a loved one. I will give way.

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Jim Shannon Madam Deputy Speaker can I commend everyone who has spoken up and made it? Four years spoken up and made it? Four years ago the Russians entered the Russia. They murdered, killed, raped. They packed 200 civilians, men, women and children into their basement and children into their basement and then they killed them all. Does he agree with me that when it comes to accountability, those who. Those to accountability, those who. Those murderers are Russian scoundrels and thugs who killed and raped and destroyed people's lives, that they should see a retribution, that they must be made accountable.

And does he agree when it comes to our our role to play, that we should play our role in this Westminster, to ensure that those people are brought to justice and put in jail for the rest of their lives? Yes.

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I totally agree with what the right hon. Gentleman has said and highlighted just now, and I'm sure the Minister will take notes of that, but I entirely agree that there should be held accountable there should be held accountable for their crimes that they have committed. So thank you. On that committed. So thank you. On that same trip to Kyiv, we we met with many Ukrainian parliamentarians, many Ukrainian parliamentarians, including the Ukrainian veterans Minister, a role that is new to the Ukrainians.

And it was a great pleasure that they wanted to learn from the UK how we support the welfare and rehabilitation of veterans returning from combat. And I know personally that the Minister from Ukraine has met with organisations such as the Royal British Legion to see how we support our veterans so they can

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take that learning back to Ukraine. I will give way. I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker, coming so late in the debate and intervening so shortly, but along with a few other colleagues, have just returned from Ukraine where we were able to be at Ukraine where we were able to be at the fourth memorial of of the invasion of Ukraine and commemorate invasion of Ukraine and commemorate the deaths there. And the hon. Gentleman is making a powerful Gentleman is making a powerful speech and we heard we felt the attacks in Odessa and Kyiv.

The people lived through every day and the horrific endurance that is having to be shown by the Ukrainian people. But they do appreciate what the UK has done in all the ways that the hon. Gentleman has said and specifically spoke to a member of staff yesterday for veterans about the fact that they followed and very much taken a UK approach and created hubs for veterans around the country. So let us. Does my does the hon. Gentleman agree?

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We must continue to work with them so we can learn from each other? Yes. I certainly do agree with the

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I certainly do agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I thank you for for telling us about your recent for telling us about your recent visit and and the way that you can visit and and the way that you can is, is, is visit. And, you know, it's great that we can share that learning as well, not just on the learning as well, not just on the military capabilities, but for the last four years must also it must be a lesson for us here in the UK.

Madam Deputy Speaker, on the front lines, we have seen the invention of the fibre optic drone of cyber sabotage, the emergence of artillery targeting apps and rapid procurement portals in the UK and Europe. We must contend with Russian activities within the grey zone. Ukrainians have suffered a terrible winter, even as the Russians have bombarded critical energy infrastructure. Last year, President Zelensky told us Russia's tactics are to murder people and terrorise them with the cold. We

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must pay attention. I will give way. Because he raises a really valid

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Because he raises a really valid point about the tactics that Putin is using at the moment. And in Ukraine, temperatures have dropped Ukraine, temperatures have dropped to -20, and that has profound consequences for everyone in Ukraine. We've got not only our Ukraine. We've got not only our individuals freezing to death, huge effect on those fighting on the front line, but also military veterans with prosthetics aren't veterans with prosthetics aren't able to recharge their limbs either. And the world Bank reports that a 21% jump in damaged or destroyed energy infrastructure from a year ago would cost 1 billion to to rebuild.

So does my hon. Friend agree with me that the government must urgently seize billions in the Russian assets and directly use those proceeds to help Ukraine rebuild its infrastructure?

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Yeah, the hon. Lady makes a poignant point there. And yes, I poignant point there. And yes, I totally agree. So thank you for making that point. We are relearning the strategic importance relearning the strategic importance of war fighting, fighting here in the UK, the importance of deterrence, readiness and resilience at home, the importance of sticking with European allies. of sticking with European allies. We could have taken for granted. It is important that civil society here in the UK understands the hardship faced by the Ukrainian people.

If Russia succeeds in using force to redraw borders, it threatens the collective security of the entire European continent of NATO and threatens our safety here in the UK. Madam Deputy Speaker. Facing down tyrants is in this country's DNA. Yeah, Ukraine will fight on and we must back them. There is no stronger defence than showing we are good to our word. Thank you. Yeah.
17:37
Mark Francois Portrait Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
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I call the Shadow Minister Mark

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Francois. Thank you very. Much. Madam Deputy Speaker, can I begin by saying it's a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North Devon, who always speaks knowledgeably on defence matters, knowledgeably on defence matters, not just because of his own service. And he has done so again today. I And he has done so again today. I must apologise to the House for missing the initial speeches in this debate. Normally I would not this debate. Normally I would not do that, but I offer the small excuse that I have been travelling for 17 hours and like my hon.

Friend, my right hon. Friend, the Member for Beverley and Holderness, I have just returned, hotfoot, as it were, from Kyiv, and I'm very grateful under these unusual circumstances. To you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and indeed, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to sum up for us and indeed to report back in effect to the House on what we learnt from our trip to Ukraine. So the context is that I, in my role as shadow Armed forces Minister, was one of around 20 UK MPs in the largest delegation that I believe we have ever sent to Ukraine, including MPs from all the main parties in the House of Commons.

Though there was no MP from reform. And I regret in all sincerity that yet again, when we are debating foreign policy and defence in this House, the Ukraine. Sorry, the reform benches are empty. I've always believed, as the son of a D-Day veteran, that the first duty of government above all others is the defence of the realm. So those who aspire to form a government should at least be bothered to turn up and talk about it. Can I also pay particular tribute to the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, who, while we were there, was presented with President Zelensky's Order of Merit for the brilliant campaigning that she has undertaken on behalf of Ukrainian children who have been captured and forcibly adopted by Russian families, or in some cases with older children, put into military training camps for the Russian Army.

Totally and utterly contrary to the Geneva Convention. She has been a stalwart campaigner on this issue. We know that in this House. But so now does the president of Ukraine, and we honour her for the honour that she has done us. Yeah, I'd also like because if I don't mention him, I'll never hear the end of it. To mention a former member of Parliament, the Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke, Jack Lopresti, who served in Afghanistan as a reservist and has now recently joined the Ukrainian Army and is serving as a specialist in communications and information warfare.

And good luck and Godspeed, Jack, in all that you do. And our main purpose in going was to attend the official ceremony of the fourth anniversary of the full scale invasion of Ukraine, which we did in Maidan Square yesterday morning, and the ceremony was also attended by President Zelensky and his wife, and by Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Union, and then several other European prime Ministers and foreign Ministers, including our own foreign Secretary, who had a platoon of British MPs to support her in her duty.

We all laid a small commemorative lamp. We all paid our respects, and in some ways this is the Ukrainian equivalent of our ceremony at the Cenotaph in November and I can report to the house. It was carried out with equal solemnity and respect. We were visiting Ukraine, I will. Yes.

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As he knows, I was. I was with him in Kyiv on that occasion. I managed to exchange a few words managed to exchange a few words with President Zelensky to point out that the British delegation out that the British delegation were there, and he made it very clear that he was very pleased to see us there, and we were very see us there, and we were very welcome. And it was an honour to give him our support.

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My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. It was great to have him as a colleague on that visit. He brought his great knowledge of defence and foreign affairs to our trip. I can also report to the House that the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness exchanged some humorous words with President Zelensky, but they are probably best left to posterity. We visited at a very difficult time, and as well as being in Kyiv, we visited Odesa, initially via Moldova, which was while we were there for part of the time under drone and missile attack.

We visited Chernobyl, which I'm pleased to report was not under drone or missile attack, although it was attacked by Russian drones some months ago. Incredibly irresponsibly. And then we moved on to Kyiv, which again, for part of our time there was under bombardment. We had burner phones. I don't think I'm giving away any secrets to say that. And they put an app on it, which goes off if there is an air raid warning. And I simply say to the house when that happens, it's quite sobering.

But there's also an all clear and with typical Ukrainian humour and defiance. When they play the all clear, it is followed by the words May the force be with you. We had multiple meetings while we were there. We were there for the people come and go on these delegations, as the House knows. But between us we were there for the best part of a week. So we met with senior staff from the office of the president, who gave us an up to date briefing on the state of the ceasefire negotiations.

We met with a dozen Ukrainian MPs from the Ukrainian UK friendship Group. We had an intelligence briefing from the Ukrainian military. We visited several bombed out residential apartments, including, I am sad to say, one on Kiev's Left Bank, which has suffered particularly heavily as it is an industrial area and a logistics centre where there's a lot of working class housing, a bit like the East End of London in some ways. And we visited one apartment where, tragically 23 innocent people were killed, including several children, in a Russian strike, which we think was aimed at the railway marshalling yards nearby.

But as it was a drone, it was not as accurate as a hypersonic missile. And these people were tragically murdered. We also attended a veterans rehabilitation centre as the Secretary of State, who's with us will know. When I was the veterans Minister, I had a bit to do with that. I'm proud of the fact that we managed to provide the genie and prosthetic for our wounded, and we saw the Ukrainian equivalent of a rehabilitation centre. And I understand that this is one area where Britain has been able to provide some advice and expertise, which was clearly warmly welcomed on our visit.

And we attended the official opening of the Ukrainian parliament, the Rada, where I'm pleased to report to the House the speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, who is a big man in every sense, acknowledged one by one all of the international delegations. But the loudest applause was for the Polish delegation and the British delegation. I think you probably couldn't tell between the two, but I think the MPs in the Rada were under no illusion about who has backed them to the hilt.

It was a difficult time and in all of these different meetings there were essentially three themes which emerged consistently, which we were asked to report back to the house. So I will perform that solemn duty. Now, our interlocutors were clear, firstly, that whilst we were formally celebrating or commemorating, I should say, the fourth anniversary of the full scale invasion, Ukraine was first invaded by Russia in 2014. They have not been at war with Russia for four years, but for 12, which, to put that into perspective, is longer than both the first and the Second World War put together.

I think their resistance for over a decade, in the face of the most brutal attacks from a larger and more powerful neighbour, deserves the respect and admiration of every single member of this House and every single citizen in this country. They are fighting for us. They are fighting for the same values for freedom, democracy and the right to decide their own destiny. Their fight is our fight. We spoke a lot to people about morale.

I think it is realistic. There are many in Ukraine that long for peace for very understandable reasons. But they were all clear on one thing, which was they would not accept peace at any price. Too much blood has been shed by the youth of Ukraine to accept a purely unilateral solution proposed by Russia. That theme came out multiple times. Secondly, on sanctions. Most of the Ukrainians that we spoke to in these meetings were understandably keen for an extension of sanctions by the Western democracies, not least with regard to frozen Russian assets, a subject Madam Deputy Speaker.

We've debated in this House on multiple occasions. Many Ukrainians feel now really is the time for the Western democracies to bite the bullet on this and use those 300 billion or so of frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine. But they also had a particular point. And here I asked for the, if I may, for the Minister's special attention with regards to the shadow fleet. It is the sale of hydrocarbons, whether oil or gas, which ultimately props up the Russian economy, which allows Putin to spend about 40% of Russia's Budget on his military and also allows him to recruit mercenaries to fight in the Russian armed forces.

In some cases, mercenaries are being offered up to $38,000 as a signing on fee to fight in the Russian armed forces. But according to Ukrainian intelligence and they said we could say this the average life expectancy of those mercenaries is four months. But they would like to see much greater sanctioning of the shadow fleet. Now, the Minister knows some of those vessels are uninsured, but many are insured, and moreover, many are insured by syndicates at Lloyd's of London.

So surely, Minister, there is more that we could do to cramp the activities of the Shadow Fleet by working with Lloyd's and other insurers, but principally them, to make sure that those ships cannot have insurance, which would make it difficult for them to visit at least some of their destination points. I make a particular point of this because I'm trying to do justice to the Ukrainians who raised this with us again and again and again. They're really hard over on this, and I hope perhaps the Minister could say something in his

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summing up. Hon. Member. Give way. Yes. Briefly, if I may. Yes.

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Yes. On this particular point, the insurance industry is located in large part in London, and the large part in London, and the British government has talked about a maritime services ban, but has talked about it on a timeline that talked about it on a timeline that might bring it to an end in this calendar year. Does he see any reason why this maritime services

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reason why this maritime services ban cannot come into effect until the end of this year? I'm not an insurance.

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Expert and wouldn't claim to be, but surely there is more that we but surely there is more that we can do. It is not a state secret that Lloyd's of London is a world that Lloyd's of London is a world leader in maritime insurance, and surely there is more that can be surely there is more that can be done here. And we promised all of us that we would relay this back to us that we would relay this back to the House and Minister, over to you.



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The third thing. On that point. Yes, of course. I'm most grateful because it was

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I'm most grateful because it was also clear in our meetings that the Ukrainians are very pleased with Ukrainians are very pleased with the interception of so far, 2 or 3 the interception of so far, 2 or 3 of these. Shadow fleet tankers, and are wondering why we can't be far more proactive in this way with more proactive in this way with maybe uninsured or unseaworthy boats that shouldn't be at sea with illegal crews. There are many, many legal pretexts upon which we could intervene in international waters with these ships, to add to the cost and risk of Russia's oil and gas exports.

So reducing their foreign exchange earnings.

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For is entirely right. The the sale of hydrocarbons, including to sale of hydrocarbons, including to China and to India, is effectively Putin's windpipe. Some people now Putin's windpipe. Some people now refer to Russia as China's gas refer to Russia as China's gas station. And if we can do more against those ships, that is important for Ukrainian morale. We important for Ukrainian morale. We were told time and again that when the Ukrainians hear that a shadow fleet vessel has been impounded or captured, that raises their morale.

This is something we could do in difficult circumstances to raise morale even further. I think between us we have made the point and hopefully the Minister can follow up on it. So the third theme that I wanted to stress before I sum up is we were thanked again and again for Britain's support militarily, diplomatically, economically, in terms of humanitarian aid. Wherever we went, people said, thank you. I think it's true to say that the previous government gave real leadership in Europe on this.

And I think it's true to say that the current government have continued in the same vein. But the House should know that people from the office of the president downwards, went out of their way to thank us for everything that Britain, and indeed this House, has done. The president of the the speaker of the Rada gave us a sombre warning. He said, and I quote him, no one knows the Russians better than us. If we fall, you and your friends are next.

And it's important that this House appreciates that. So I don't want to spoil the non-partisan spirit of this debate, but there are lessons for us in the United Kingdom, too, not just about the overall level of defence spending, but about the long delayed defence investment plan. We desperately need that document. Secretary of State, we can't wait much longer. We've waited since the autumn, so again, the ball is in the secretary of State's court and it would be good for Ukrainian role to see Britain

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committing to a long term equipment programme to. Would my right hon. Friend? Yes.

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Extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend and I entirely agree with every word he's made. Perhaps an area where we haven't succeeded the area where we haven't succeeded the last government, or this one is sufficiently sharing and rating and sufficiently sharing and rating and telling the story of the threat to the UK, to our citizens to suffer the UK, to our citizens to suffer the barbarity which the Ukrainians are suffering daily in order which will help the Secretary of State and others to make the case in an extremely tough fiscal environment for the kind of resourcing not only to support Ukraine, but to arm ourselves.

And does he agree with me that it would be good to hear from the Minister something about that, because I still see a disconnect between the way my constituents see the world and the way certainly I see it fresh back

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from Ukraine. Laura Trott is quite right. And the Ukrainians were, and I use the the Ukrainians were, and I use the word deliberately warning us they've been at war for 12 years. They were warning us not to be They were warning us not to be complacent, to learn from their suffering, about the ability never suffering, about the ability never to take freedom for granted. I, the Secretary of State, has heard me use these words before. Say I crave his indulgence.

But the Roman military strategist Vegetius said Civis pacem, para bellum. He who desires peace should prepare for war in order to deter it. And we heard those words again in Ukraine. So to conclude on the Monday evening before the ceremony in Maidan Square the following day, we were entertained at a reception at the British Embassy, which I hope the Minister will understand. The spirit in which this is said, had a slightly humorous moment when the chargé d'affaires thanked the British delegation for ignoring Foreign Office advice not to travel to Ukraine in order to be at their reception.

And I thank the Minister for his letter also advising us not to go. But I'm terribly sorry. We exercise Nelson's eye and we went anyway. It was a wonderful evening, in all seriousness, and we were entertained by several people from what the Ukrainians call the cultural forces of Ukraine, including very memorably, a group of Ukrainian soldiers who were singing a cappella. They were brilliant, and there were genuine shouts of more and encore at the end, and they encored to Frank Sinatra's Myra.

And for those who know the song, there is a wonderful line where Sinatra sings to say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels. The Ukrainians have not knelt. They have not knelt in the face of terrorism. They have not knelt in the face of barbarism, including using highly accurate cruise missiles to deliberately attack children's hospitals. They have not knelt in the face of genocide at places like Bucha.

They have stood up. And this house every man Jack Abbott stands with them. Slava Ukraini.
17:59
Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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Follow that Minister, Mr. Stephen Doughty.

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Madam Deputy Speaker. And I want to thank all honourable and right hon. Members for their contributions to today's debate, particularly those who've just recently returned from Ukraine, just recently returned from Ukraine, bringing powerful, powerful testimony. And having visited Ukraine three times myself since Ukraine three times myself since the start of this phase, it was rightly pointed out of Russia's rightly pointed out of Russia's illegal invasion. I have had similar experiences that have shown to me, again, the tenacity and courage of Ukrainians, which should inspire not only this country but the whole world.

I don't feel any surprise in that, because I've known Ukrainians for 30 years, and whether it's through their ties with South Wales, my own constituency, Cardiff, is was twinned with Luhansk. It was Welsh people who helped found the industries in the Donbas and Donetsk. We have a Sebastopol in the South Wales valleys because of British and French troops fighting in the Crimean War in 1855, and we have, like many, many members have referred to today, very powerful Ukrainian communities locally. And it was an honour to join my own constituents who've reached out their homes and their hearts to Ukrainians, as so many have across this House in recent, in recent weeks.

I will admit, in a moment in recent weeks, just the other night celebrating particularly the contribution of Ukrainian women through an incredible piece of drama and theatre around matondkar dolls, which some of you will know are a very important part of Ukrainian culture. And of course, it is women and girls and civilians who have suffered terribly at the hands of Russia's barbaric attacks. And we must show our continued support and solidarity every single day. And I'm glad again we have seen that on all sides of the House, although I must, as the shadow Minister reflected, I don't want to sign a discordant note, because I think the unity in this House today, the unity of most of the British people, is very much in that, in that regard.

But yet again, we see one party absent and absence speaks volumes. And that's before we get on to their spouting of Kremlin narratives or indeed the activities their former leader in Wales. And I think we need to speak about that because it is a very serious issue, especially when we see the unity in this House. But I'm very glad, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we've signalled once again that we will stand with Ukraine today, tomorrow and for years to come. I will I'm going to give way and then I'll give way, and then I'll give way very quickly.



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On that point, we would all be intrigued to know who is Reform's intrigued to know who is Reform's defence spokesperson. So if the Minister picks up any hints on that,

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perhaps he could give me a ring. Well, again, I think it speaks volumes about where people in this

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House stand, but that's for them to explain. I'll give way there. For for giving way. On the

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For for giving way. On the subject of Ukrainians living in the valleys, I was visiting with some Ukrainians who are on the homes for Ukraine scheme in my constituency in Dawlish, and I met with a Ukrainian naval officer, senior naval officer, who was extremely grateful and very relieved that his family were safe and secure in Dawlish. So I thank the government for extending the homes for Ukraine scheme by two years last summer, and I thank them again for actually this week, enabling them to apply for those visas within 90 days of the end of that visa, as opposed to 28 that it was before.

So that is a big relief to the Ukrainians in my constituency and indeed to their officers. Can I ask the Minister what he thinks about the future for

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Yeah. Well, people from Ukraine are very, very welcome here. And as very, very welcome here. And as that's been shown by communities up and down the country and indeed by many members today, and I'm glad he many members today, and I'm glad he acknowledged that important change we made this week. And it was a point raised by many in the debate. I'll give way briefly, and then

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I'll give way briefly, and then I'll try and start responding to some of the points. But I. Thank the hon. Member for giving way. Noted the absence of reform way. Noted the absence of reform from this debate. I also note the absence of the Green Party from this debate. Perhaps they are too busy spreading sectarian hate up in Gorton and Denton or undermining NATO at every corner. Does the hon.

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Member agree with me on that point? And it speaks volumes, and it's not the first time. And quite not the first time. And quite frankly, their comments on defence and NATO in the last few weeks are and NATO in the last few weeks are quite shocking. And, you know, I said the other day, they should tell that to people in Ukraine or to people in the Baltics. Absolutely extraordinary comments. But again, they speak for But again, they speak for themselves.

I too have made a long journey to be here today, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I've come directly from the United Nations Security Council, where I had the honour of chairing the Security Council session yesterday on Ukraine and speaking to the United Nations General Assembly, where we joined Ukraine and more than 107 countries in voting for a resolution reaffirming support for Ukraine's sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity. It was a powerful show of global support. But I also had to listen again and again to the abject lies of the Russian representatives.

And we all have a job to do in this place, in our communities, in the international forest, where it's the UN, the Council of Europe has mentioned the OSCE to speak the truth and to expose Russian lies, and to do that with countries around this world where they are

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spreading disinformation and division. I'll happily give way. As my hon. Friend will know, our

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As my hon. Friend will know, our hon. Friend for Paisley and Renfrewshire South and a lot of work on the stolen children. And she did mention that the Minister had actually mentioned this while he was over in New York, and she was very touched by that. And would was very touched by that. And would he agree with me that the work she's been doing is is fantastic in

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the face of a horrendous situation? I absolutely do, and like so many members, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend from Paisley and Renfrewshire South. She's actually just sent me a picture of her award from President Zelensky, and she absolutely does deserve that. And I think I've spoken powerfully on these issues, and that's why I wanted to communicate what she and so many others have been saying, but most importantly, to communicate the voice of Ukrainian children that I have met through her work who have escaped that heinous activity.

And I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for all the work she's done. I know she's travelled to Ukraine on a number of occasions and always speaks up on these issues powerfully. I was very, very clear, Madam Deputy Speaker at the United Nations, that we need to keep up the pressure on Russia to engage meaningfully in the peace process. We are also clear about what peace requires. It requires a full, immediate and unconditional ceasefire. It requires a settlement resulting in a secure, sovereign and independent Ukraine, a settlement where stolen children and prisoners of war are returned and, crucially, where there is justice for the crimes committed by Russia, including horrific sexual violence against men, women and children, as reported by the United Nations.

And as I said in New York, and I repeat now, these requirements are what every Ukrainian deserves and what the world deserves. And while I was in New York, as was pointed out, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary was demonstrating our solidarity with Ukraine on the ground in Kyiv, where she announced £30 million in additional funding to strengthen Ukrainian energy resilience and support recovery, taking the total UK support to 21.8 billion since the start of the war, £25 million that will help repair damaged energy infrastructure and support men, women and children whose lives continue to be uprooted by Russia's aggression and 5 million to support that crucial justice and accountability for victims of alleged Russian war crimes.

The Foreign Secretary also announced our largest Russia sanctions package since 2022. Nearly 300 new sanctions against Russia targeting its key revenue streams, critical military goods, supply chains and systems set up, as has been rightly pointed out, to undermine existing sanctions. Over 1200 sanctions now against individuals, entities and ships in that shadow fleet that was referenced, absolutely crucial. Those sanctions are working. Russia's federal oil and gas revenues fell 50% in the 12 months from January last year. And Western sanctions have denied Russia access to at least $450 billion worth since February 2022.

That is equivalent of funding for more than two years that could continue their war machine against Ukraine. I'm going to give way to gentlemen.

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I thank the Minister very much for his response and for his words that he says of encouragement for that he says of encouragement for us as MPs, but also for for those of us outside here watching of us outside here watching Minister I and my intervention earlier on, I referred to in particular where the war crimes particular where the war crimes were an absolutely unbelievable. And I'm very keen to ensure we're all very keen to ensure that all very keen to ensure that there's accountability and justice in the process.

What are we as a United Kingdom government and the Minister, who I know is committed to ensure that the evidential base is gathered to catch those people who have carried out those crimes and make them accountable, and they will be accountable in the next one. Let's make sure they get it in this world as well.

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Well, I completely agree with him, and this was a key part of that funding that the Foreign Secretary announced yesterday. But Secretary announced yesterday. But also the work that we've done to support the judicial system and investigations within Ukraine, but also our work at the International also our work at the International Criminal Court, the work we're doing around a special tribunal on the crime of aggression, the Claims Commission. There are many, many different ways in which we're going to seek justice and accountability, many references.

But yeah, I mean, many references. But yeah, I mean, some of the most horrific things that I heard there, particularly the treatment and killings of priests and religious figures, and I spoke about that yesterday at the United Nations as well. And I think there's a very, very serious situation going on in the temporarily occupied territories in terms of freedom of religion and attacks on on religious figures. And I've spoken about that with our colleagues in the United States. While I was in Washington, DC, just before I was in the United Nations.



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I'll give way again once, briefly, and then I want to respond to the points in the debate. I'm sorry, Mark Francois.

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I'm sorry, Mark Francois. Hammer the nail on this point about insurance, and I don't expect the Minister to make policy on the the Minister to make policy on the hoof, but so many of the Ukrainians that we spoke to were so hard over on this point about insurance in on this point about insurance in London for the Shadow Fleet, could he at least give the House a commitment now that he will go away and work with ministerial colleagues to see what more can be done in this area? Because so many

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Ukrainians are asking for exactly that. Well, it's a very important point, and I've had many, many point, and I've had many, many different conversations with the insurance industry over the last year and a half. We are continuing year and a half. We are continuing to look at all ways to choke off the energy revenues to Russia. I'm not going to pre-announce obviously decisions we might come to, but decisions we might come to, but we've been very clear about what we see as the track on this.

There were a substantial number of measures announced yesterday, measures announced yesterday, including actually illicit oil trading networks that were at the heart of some of the sanctions that we announced yesterday. And you'll be able to catch up. I'm happy to offer further briefings on that. I'm going to just respond to the points that were I'm going to just respond with, just respond to the points that were made in the debate. I will happily come back if we've got some time at the end. So many members raised the issues around deportation of children.

This is a personal passion for me, having met some of those children, and the work of the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South has been mentioned. I was able to hold a meeting yesterday with a number of European and other countries, Canada, and also with Mariana Betsa, the Ukrainian Deputy Minister in New York, to discuss our work together on this issue. Specifically, we're closely working with the United States, the EU, Canada as chair of the coalition and of course, directly with Ukraine.

We've committed more than 2.8 million to support efforts to facilitate return and reintegration. And since September, the pilot tracing mechanism that we have been working with Ukraine on has identified over 600 additional children who were deported to the Russian Federation or relocated within temporarily occupied territories. And we're working with a number of NGOs and others on this. I can absolutely assure the House that we will continue to see this as a major priority, and we are most focussed on the measures that work that can actually identify, trace, return and of course, reintegrate and support those people who have been affected.

We've also sanctioned, of course, 11 more perpetrators in September of Russia's heinous policy in this area. In terms of overall financial support, I would remind the House that we have committed up to 21.8 billion for Ukraine. That's 13 billion in the military support that the defence secretary spoke about, including our 2.26 billion era loan contribution, up to 5.3 billion in non-military support and also export cover, export finance cover via Ukef, which has been crucial for reconstruction and defence projects.

We're continuing to get that money out the door to get it to the Ukrainians and to continue to look at all ways in which we can enhance our programs, and I've particularly worked with our teams, our fantastic teams who work on the the Oda Budget for Ukraine to make sure we're focusing in on that support, particularly for the energy system and particularly for some of that work into long term reconstruction, which will be needed. Members raised the point about Russian sovereign assets. I'm just going to respond to these two more points on Russian sovereign assets.

We were always clear that we would move in parallel with international partners on this. And in light of the EU decision that some people will be aware of, we will nevertheless continue to work with the G7 and the EU to ensure Ukraine gets the support it needs and make sure Russia will ultimately pay for the damages that it has caused. And we welcome the agreement at the European Council to provide this new 90 billion loan. And the Prime Minister welcomed the steps that could allow the UK to take part in that 90 billion loan to Ukraine as well.

So we're going to explore all opportunities to get them what they need. I'm going to give way there and there.

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And most grateful to the Minister. And had I got here a little earlier, I would have tried little earlier, I would have tried to make my own speech. But there are three particular home truths that I think we've brought back that I think we've brought back with us. The first is that we were asked so often, why do all these asked so often, why do all these rich Western European countries only give us enough to continue fighting, but not enough to win? And unless we changing that, we're just offering a recipe for a continuing war.

Have no doubt this is the second point that the Ukrainian government is resolved to carry on fighting in the absence of an acceptable peace settlement, and if that means planning for the next 2 or 3 years, that's what they're talking about. They're not talking about collapsing at all, and that will never happen. I make that forecast. And finally, they're grateful for the coalition of the Willing Initiative. They're very disappointed. The United Kingdom and France were the only two countries to sign the memorandum at the end of that meeting, and nothing subsequently has really happened since.

And they're very concerned about the lack of war readiness amongst NATO forces, seeing how utterly transformed Ukrainian forces are in terms of their capability to fight the Russians. What are we doing to transform our armed forces so that with limited manpower like the Ukrainians, we can hold back a Russian advance and ultimately

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protect NATO? Mr. Doughty? Well, I've been very clear in the Defence Secretary is very, very the Defence Secretary is very, very clear about our our commitments in terms of military support and, of course, the non-military support. And those endure and will continue And those endure and will continue to endure, and we will continue to stand with Ukraine as long as it stand with Ukraine as long as it takes. But we will also rightly, and this was brought up in the debate on a number of occasions, ensuring that we are learning as ensuring that we are learning as well.

This is a two way process. We are learning from Ukraine as well. In terms of that preparation for our own defences. I went to see the incredible work that we do in the Baltics just three weeks ago in Latvia, and the incredible work in the Drone Coalition, and not only supporting Ukraine and of course, with the octopus drones, but also learning ourselves on the tactics and techniques that are being used. So I can absolutely assure him and other members you raise that, that this is going on.

I will give way. But I just do want to respond to some more points. And the point about Chelsea was raised and the the, the the monies from the sale of Chelsea. Let me be clear again to the House. The government is giving Mr. Abramovich the last chance to do the right thing and donate the 2.5 billion from the sale of Chelsea FC to support the people of Ukraine, as was committed to back in 2022. The House will know that we issued the license in December, which permits the transfer of the funding into a new foundation.

We strive to find a way forward with Mister Abramovich. We would prefer him to have taken that action with the cooperation of him and his company. We are now urging him to honour that commitment. But if he fails to act quickly, we are fully prepared to go to court to enforce that commitment if necessary, and we are working with international partners to ensure that proceeds reach humanitarian causes in Ukraine as soon as possible. It was raised a number of times the issue regarding refined oil products and indeed wider maritime services ban for LNG.

We've announced our intention to ban imports of oil products refined in third countries from Russian origin crude oil. I recognise very much the points that were being raised, and we also intend to introduce a maritime services ban on liquefied natural gas, phased in over 2026, in lockstep with the EU, which will restrict Russia's ability to export. The issue of imports and exports to the UK were raised. And I have some updated figures. I mean, we can provide these, but the most recent data shows that UK imports from and exports to Russia dropped by 99.6% and 87.6%, respectively, compared to 2021.

So there has been a substantial change there. And in terms of the wider Russian energy sector, we have designated, along with the designations we made yesterday, Russia's four largest oil majors this year, Gazprom Neft PJSC Surrey Heath Naftogaz on the 10th of January, and Rosneft and Lukoil on the 15th of October. And we're already having a clear impact. Chinese state oil majors are reportedly suspending purchases. Indian refiners are reportedly pausing new orders, and Russia's federal oil and gas revenues fell 50% year on year in January 2026.

This is having a material impact on their ability to wage war.

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Grateful to the Minister, who's been most generous. We also met while we were there, the Member for Dudley, who had led a delegation of physiotherapists working with with the Ukrainians as well. Another ask. the Ukrainians as well. Another ask. There was one that we perhaps didn't expect to hear. There wasn't enough going on as far as the enough going on as far as the Ukrainians were concerned, of British business coming out to do business. Not so much to do good, business.

Not so much to do good, but to do business to integrate our trade, and that they felt there was a greater commercial engagement from other countries than there was from the UK, who they saw as a particularly good ally. And I wonder whether the Minister could is there anything he could say about that, whether we through obviously another department, we could do more to be taking more trade, trade delegations and really leaning in to make sure we really

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support trade both directions. Well, he raised an important point. And our trade envoy, the point. And our trade envoy, the Member for Leeds, is doing excellent work on this point, and we're looking to all opportunities to engage UK businesses in a range to engage UK businesses in a range of sectors. Again, this is a two way process. Our partnership with Ukraine is for 100 years. This isn't just about the support that isn't just about the support that we offer them now. It's about the opportunities for the future in a peaceful and secure and sovereign Ukraine.

And I think UK and Ukraine Ukraine. And I think UK and Ukraine working together, I think, is going to be a very powerful force in the world to come. Ukrainians in the UK were mentioned on a number of occasions and we are very, very proud of what people across this country have done to support Ukrainians. Over 300,000 Ukrainians, their families have been supported. Ukrainians living in the UK can now apply to stay for an additional 18 months. And as was referenced as of yesterday, Ukrainians wishing to extend their stay in the UK will now be able to apply up to 90 days before their current permission expires.

That's treble the current 28 days and we will continue to listen to Ukrainian communities, giving families a greater sense of security about their futures. There were questions about the multinational force. I'm not going to, for obvious reasons, get into details on this because it would be irresponsible to share operational details prematurely. But we are very, very clear that this will be a visible and tangible international support for Ukraine's return to peace. It will regenerate Ukraine's land forces, and it will establish and maintain safe skies, safe seas and strong borders.

And of course, it is not just the contribution that we would make directly to that that Defence Secretary and Prime Minister have spoken. It is about that training and equipping of Ukraine's own armed forces, as we've done for so long. In any case, we are going to continue to support a range of other projects in humanitarian energy stabilisation, reform, recovery and reconstruction. We're working through BII. We are using every channel, every sinew, every way that we can stand with Ukraine, not just in words, but in practical terms of what we can do.

There were many, many very helpful points made today. We will continue to offer briefings to members of the House, and as ever, my door remains open for those who've got very specific concerns, my hon. Friend from Hemel Hempstead and others, and raise some very particular concerns. I'm very happy to take those away from here. Also happy to offer briefings with officials on a number of the very specific technical topics that were raised. But I will give one last time and then I'm going to

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wind up. I'm grateful to the Minister, and my specific concern is about and my specific concern is about this maritime services ban for the transport of Russian liquefied natural gas. It was announced by natural gas. It was announced by the Foreign Secretary last November, but it's not due to come into effect until the end of this calendar year. More than a whole year is what it's looking like it should take. Why need it take so

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should take. Why need it take so long? Can the Minister explain? As I set out a moment ago, is is our intention to introduce this? We are working at pace and he will appreciate. These are extremely complicated measures, both legally and in terms of the procedures that need to be in place. And of course, it requires a substantial amount of international coordination because in order to actually have effect and not have loopholes around these things, we've got to be working very closely with other other partners on this, so I can assure him that I am personally working very hard to accelerate this as fast as we can.

We need to do everything we can to choke off the revenues that are fuelling the war machine, and it is a a personal mission of mine to do that, and I'm very happy to give him further briefings on this outside of the House. But let me conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, by reiterating Ukraine's victory is not only essential for Ukraine, it is essential for Europe's future and essential for the future of this country. A secure, independent Ukraine strengthens Europe, strengthens Britain. It reinforces the message, the message we took to the United Nations yesterday that borders cannot be changed by force and that democratic nations will stand together against authoritarian pressure and barbarism as Ukraine enters the fifth year now of this phase of the invasion, we will continue alongside international partners to sustain the support that Ukraine needs today.

And I want in particular, to pay tribute to the incredible work not only of our teams in the Ministry of Defence, but also in the foreign, Commonwealth Development Office, in particular the team in Kyiv and our new office in Lviv for the incredible work that they do and particularly their country staff, because they are enduring the same as Ukrainians in terms of blackouts, in terms of attacks, in terms of winter conditions. And they do so with dedication, with absolute professionalism, and very much the spirit that is exemplified in this House today.

They're exemplifying on the ground today, and I'm very delighted that members here have been able to meet with them. So can I end by again paying tribute to the Ukrainian people, to those fighting on the front lines, to the families separated and to the civilians who are enduring hardship with extraordinary dignity? We will continue to stand with you. We will continue to support you. We will continue to support you every step of the way, because we know that your struggle is a reminder of what's at stake freedom, self-determination and a rules based order that protects us all.

And we will stand with Ukraine today, tomorrow, and for as long as

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it takes. Slava Ukraini. To also want to pay my tribute to the Ukrainian people and the many Ukrainians that live in my constituency of Sussex Weald. The question is that this House has considered the situation in Ukraine, as many of that opinion say. I of as many of that opinion say. I of the contrary, no the ayes have it, the ayes have it. The frontbenchers may wish to shuffle over. They may wish to shuffle over. They don't want to stay for the rest of Sir.

Roger, if you are, shall I wait for you, sir? Roger, or shall I continue? Ma'am? Are you going to sit or exit, sir? Roger. Marvellous. The motion number three on estimates. Backbench business Committee recommendation. Minister to move back. To move. The question is, as on the order papers. May that be, say I Of the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to petition Liam Conlon. You're on your fourth seat, Mr. Connor. Are you comfortable there? Lovely petition.

Liam Conlon. Lovely petition. Liam Conlon.
18:25
18:27
18:27
Helena Dollimore Portrait Adjournment: Bayeux Tapestry exhibition Helena Dollimore MP (Hastings and Rye, Labour )
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. No other work of art is as entwined No other work of art is as entwined with our island's story as the Bayeux Tapestry, which quite literally wove my constituency of Hastings and Rye and the villages into our national history. The tapestries return home after spending nearly a thousand years across the channel, is a triumph for Britain, and it's testament to this Labour government's success in strengthening our relations with our closest European neighbours. This loan is a symbol of our shared history with our friends in France, and I pay tribute to all those involved in arranging it, but in particular to Antoine Vernet, the director of the British Tapestry Museum, who sadly passed away earlier this month.

I also want to thank everyone involved on both sides of the channel, including the British Museum and the Department for culture, Media and Sport. William the Conqueror's landing on our Sussex shore is a story familiar to every schoolchild in Britain. The date 1066 is etched into our national consciousness, and the Battle of Hastings was a defining moment in British history that continues to shape who we are today. While historians may disagree on exactly where the battle itself took place, and indeed sometimes members of this House a millennium later, the clash between the Saxons and the Normans still resonates across our land.

In fact, Hastings and the surrounding area, and I see other members representing 1066 country here in the chamber is known as 1066 country. So inseparable is our identity. From the events immortalised in the Bayeux Tapestry. Many streets in Hastings bear names referencing Saxon, Norman, William or Harold, and even our local hospital is aptly named the Conquest Hospital. Yet while we have often found ourselves at the centre of historical events, we have not always felt the benefits across Hastings, Rye and the villages.

Over 60% of young people leave school without a level four in English and Maths GCSE, the equivalent of a C. The Sutton Trust has said that we are in the bottom ten places nationally for social mobility, and our life expectancy is below the national average. We may be a similar distance from London as Brighton, but our train takes twice as long and our infrastructure has suffered from 14 years of neglect and our roads are riddled with potholes. All of this is symbolic of how we have too often been forgotten by Westminster, by Whitehall and London cultural circles.

The Bayeux Tapestry exhibition at the British Museum will be the exhibition of a generation, and I want children from 1066 country to see it and feel pride in knowing that the story it tells began in the place that they call home. When I go into our local schools, our young people are so proud to be from Hastings, but they must not be priced out of a ticket and a chance to celebrate the legacy of our town on the national stage. I'm urging the British Museum to guarantee places for schoolchildren from Hastings and the surrounding area, and to support the cost of travel, so that access is not determined by how well off our local schools are.

My challenge to the British Museum is to live up to their name, to truly be the Museum of Britain, and ensure young people from Hastings and 66 country get to visit. I've had constructive discussions with the museum, as I know my colleagues have, and I stand ready to work with them and local schools to make this happen. This Labour government has rightly set the expectation that London museums must work harder to be genuinely national institutions, by opening up opportunities for young people from every part of our country.

What better way to do this and celebrate the return of the Bayeux Tapestry than by ensuring the people of Hastings in 1066 country are truly part of this national moment. That is why I've asked the British Museum to reserve at least 1066 tickets for local residents. I would also like to thank the historian Dan Snow and David Dimbleby, who is a nearby resident, for supporting me in this campaign. They, too, know that local children being able to see this exhibition for themselves could inspire the next generation of historians.

Our area helped make this piece of

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history. It must now fully share in its legacy. I will give way. Madam Speaker, first of all, can

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Madam Speaker, first of all, can I congratulate the hon. Lady for Hastings and Rye, the only subject that I excelled at school was that I excelled at school was history, by the way, and I think the hon. Lady has excelled by far, of course. But she always has a of course. But she always has a love of history as well as I still maintain over all those years. It does not agree that to see this does not agree that to see this incredible piece of history as a Bayeux Tapestry exhibition will be an absolute inspiration for children to understand the rich history of this nation, this wonderful nation, a kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I'm having flashbacks of my third year at history when I think of it this way, but I'm Debbie speaker. But does the hon. Lady not further agree that we must ensure that schools from around the nation, all of the nations, must be able to bring children? Perhaps that funding pots to help with costs for schools should be considered. Well Dollimore.

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I thank the honourable. Member for that important intervention and he is absolutely intervention and he is absolutely right that school children need to be able to access this exhibition. They shouldn't be put off by the They shouldn't be put off by the price of a ticket to the exhibition, or a train ticket there, or even a flight in his case. And it's really important because, you know, I speak as somebody who went to local state schools and was lucky enough to go on and study history at to go on and study history at university, and who knows who we could be inspiring by allowing schoolchildren to see the exhibition.

As I was saying, we want schoolchildren to be able to see the exhibition, but we also want to encourage visitors to the exhibition in north London to take a further step back in time and visit the place where it all happened. 1066 country. I'm urging many of our transport providers to make sure that we can make it easier for tourists to visit 1066 country during this important moment. I'm urging southeastern trains to look at how they can make it quicker for tourists to visit our area.

And of course, this also extends to visitors from abroad, which is why I've been campaigning to bring back international trains to Ashford International to encourage our European neighbours across the channel to be able more easily to visit us in 1066 country and in Hastings and Rye. Hopefully this time they will be armed with buckets and spades rather than bows and arrows, and they will certainly receive a much warmer welcome than they did in 1066 1066. Country is not only rich in history, but also in landscape, in heritage and in culture.

We might be tucked away in the South coast, but we pack a punch well above our weight in what our visitor and tourist experience is. From Hastings Museum to Hastings Castle, Hastings Contemporary Gallery, Rye Heritage Centre, Camber Sands, Rye Harbour Nature Reserve, Hastings Country Park and many more. We have so much to offer people wanting to visit with next year marking the 1,000th anniversary of the birth of William the Conqueror, we are celebrating this year of the Normans with special events across Hastings, Rye and the villages.

I know I would like to see one of the many replicas of the Bayeux Tapestry to be put on display in Hastings. I can't think of any better place to be named the UK's Town of Culture, which Hastings is hoping to be named as next year. Much of our. I will.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to commend her for her speech tonight. She's spoken so eloquently about the importance of history and about the importance of history and the role of the Normans in both Sussex history, our own local history, but also in our country. history, but also in our country. And it's been a very poignant speech. And thank her so much for mentioning the copy at Reading mentioning the copy at Reading Museum, which was woven in Victorian times using similar stitches.

The original copy, which stitches. The original copy, which was in fact the original tapestry, was made in England and then exported to Normandy. Perhaps she wants to ask some of our residents to come to Reading Museum at some point, and to look at the wider impact of the Norman Conquest across the country. In fact, due to William the Conqueror's son, we had a wonderful abbey built in reading and it led to the growth of our town. And that story is echoed

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across many communities in this country. Helena Dollimore. I thank my hon. Friend for that

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I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, and indeed, we have many replicas of the tapestry that I'm aware of, the one he talks of I'm aware of, the one he talks of in Reading Museum. There is also one that I know Hastings Borough Council have got in storage, and Council have got in storage, and I'm urging them to take it out of storage and put it on show in time for the big moment later this year. for the big moment later this year.

I'm also aware that my hon. Friend, the Member for Bexhill and Battle will speak later about another one that's underway, but as I've said, much of our area relies on the tourist economy, which supports 1 in 5 jobs in our region. We have a wealth of small, fantastic independent pubs, restaurants and hotels who work exceptionally hard to give our visitors a warm welcome. And this has got to be a big moment for them that they feel the benefits of too. While there may be other beautiful places in the UK that we compete with, this is a one in the eye for them and our big chance to showcase everything Hastings, Rye and The Villages has to offer.

Because the return of the Bayeux Tapestry will be a national moment that belongs to the whole country. But it must have a special place for the people of 1066 country where this story began. Thank you.
18:37
Kieran Mullan Portrait Dr Kieran Mullan MP (Bexhill and Battle, Conservative)
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Doctor Kieran Mullan. congratulating the Member for Hastings and Rye for securing this debate and also for those that don't, our constituents, perhaps, who don't follow the etiquette. The German debate is typically a debate for a single member. So it's really gracious of her to make some time for me to speak briefly in this debate on something that we've worked together on. I want to thank her for the work that she's done to date. When we talk about the Bayeux Tapestry, we're talking about history that is deeply interwoven in the culture and history of my constituency in Bexhill and Battle.

William landed in Pevensey, which is in the west of of the constituency, and people can visit the ruins of Pevensey Castle there. And we have a museum in Pevensey that exhibits the really important local history. From that perspective, and almost pinpointing the middle of my constituency is battle Abbey, and battle Abbey is perhaps the biggest tourist attraction in my constituency and is visited by thousands of people every year. And actually, it was built by William as penance for the bloodshed and violence that local people had experienced as part of the Battle of Hastings.

As the member indicated, there is some dispute about whether the battle took place there. As the Member for Bexhill and Battle, I'm going to plant my mask firmly on the argument that it took place. Battle Abbey is is built, and every year there is a re-enactment of the battle, which is increasingly popular. Actually had one of its best ever years last year, and it's a major tourist attraction. And both the ruins of Pevensey Castle and Battle Abbey are important English Heritage sites, and I want to thank them for meeting with me recently to talk about the opportunities that the Bayeux Tapestry presents and all the work they do all year round on those sites and other important historical sites in my constituency.

I, the member, has done an excellent job with a greater time. She's allowed of going through in detail all the different things that we might want to gain from this exhibit visiting the UK. So I'll just reemphasize a couple of really important points. And and before I want to make those points, it's of course something that will benefit everywhere. There's lots of different places where there will be benefit. But really I do think it is in 1066 County that we should expect the greatest attention and effort put into ensuring a success.

I think the first thing we have to do is ensure that the benefits of the visit are felt outside of London. As the member said, this is the British Museum, it's for it's for Britain. And whilst of course it's important that London gets its share of the tourism spend that that will come with this tapestry, it's vitally needed that tourism spend in our own constituency. So I think we may have to make sure that there's a clear programme from the British Museum and others to ensure that visits to the tapestry, secure visits to our constituencies and actually vice versa.

There were people that would be driven to the tapestry who would perhaps have just visited 1066 County and its historical sites. I think that's really important. And second, the issue of our local school children. How often do local schoolchildren get to feel like their history is is as important as this, as a major exhibit and a major historical event happening. So I think it's really important that local schoolchildren get to visit the tapestry, and it's made affordable and accessible to them.

Of course, there'll be opportunities for children across the country to get to visit, but let's make sure that that programme is really supportive of of our local school children. And I'll just finish on a mentioning a community project that shows that this isn't just about something that's happening in the future, the way in which the history is part of our culture locally is an ongoing thing. And so we have this fantastic community project led by Christina Green and Tim, who are replicating the elements of the tapestry that relate to the ship that William sailed in the la mora.

It's called the la mora Tapestry Project. And for some time now, residents in my constituency have been able to visit Battle Library and take the careful time of stitching parts of this replica tapestry under the watchful eye of Christina, making sure we're using those techniques. They've done an amazing job in researching the walls. The walls they use are the same, or as close as we can get to the walls that were originally used in the tapestry. And even more incredible, I think she's she noticed, and I'm sure other historians would have noticed the absence of the female voice in these historical documents, if you might say, like the tapestry that the very male centric, actually the William's wife, the Queen, was thought to be a major player in this, helped commission the boat.

And so there's a whole additional bits to this tapestry. So we're adding new bits to the story that focus on her role, which I think is really great for the schoolgirls that also come and and take part in the setting of the tapestry. So it's already part of our history. So let's and it's already a day to day thing that we make use of culturally and historically locally. So let's make sure the visit of the Bayeux Tapestry helps weave some new stories, some new projects, some new ideas, and it's a great opportunity to do that.

And I really want the government to work with the British Museum who are cooperating. We're having more productive discussions, but I think the the efforts of the Minister to keep it all on track, I'm sure will be greatly appreciated.
18:42
Ian Murray Portrait Rt Hon Ian Murray MP, The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Edinburgh South, Labour)
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Thank you, Minister Ian. so much. I'm so pleased to respond to this debate this afternoon. I congratulate my hon. Friend for Hastings and Rye, not only securing this debate, but her lovely speech. And I did notice in there there was a little bit of lobbying about becoming the town of culture as well, which I've subsequently noted, and I'm sure my officials in the books have done so as well, because it's really important that this will be the first time since it left the UK over 900 years ago that the Bayeux Tapestry has returned.

It is a very, very important moment, but I was reflecting that perhaps the modern battles between the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle and my hon. Friend for Hastings and Rye, on where the battle actually took place, and perhaps there will be a tapestry made of that particular battle in the years to come, because the tapestry coming to the UK is more than a once in a lifetime opportunity. It's a once in a millennium opportunity and something we should celebrate and get the most out of.

As members have said, I wish to start by paying tribute, as my hon. Friend did, to the director of the museum, Monsieur Antoine Vernay, who sadly passed away just two weeks ago. And to extend our heartfelt sympathies to his family and to his colleagues, his contribution over the years to promoting knowledge of the tapestry and sharing this widely, including with colleagues in the British Museum, leaves a lasting legacy which we must honour and build upon when the tapestry arrives here this year. I also want to extend my gratitude on behalf of the UK government to our friends on the French side who are doing so much to enable the loan, including President Macron, of course, on the Minister for culture, Rachida Dati, the role in supporting this loan has been crucial to making it happen.

I would also like to pay tribute to the hard work and commitment of the UK government's envoy on the tapestry, Lord Ricketts of the Other place, and of his French counterpart Philippe Delaval, and to thank all the people who are making this loan possible, including the French ambassador to the UK, the president of the Normandy region, the mayors of Bayeux, Rouen and can, as well as senior figures in the regional cultural authority and of course, colleagues here at the British Museum. The Bayeux Tapestry will be on display at the British Museum from September this year through to July 2027.

I thank the British Museum for working so hard to enable this exhibition, and for their generosity in allowing the Sutton Hoo treasures, the Lewis chess pieces and more than 220 drawings by Renaissance masters for their collection to museums in Cannes and Rouen in Normandy, for displays in 2027, to coincide with the celebration of the year of the Normans, marking 1000 years since the birth of William the Conqueror. I'm not sure if the Member for Strangford remembers the birth of William the Conqueror, but I am sure he is not far away.

It is an enormous task to deliver such a historic exhibition, but to do so in such a short timeframe is a particular challenge. Usually, exhibitions at major museums take 3 to 5 years to plan, but the British Museum is rising to the challenge of putting this on in little over one year. As well as developing a national programme of education and engagement to spread knowledge of the tapestry and the Norman Conquest throughout the country. And I think what my hon. Friend from Hastings and Rye says about the deprivation and the educational attainment in our constituency, we should use this as a platform and a foundation on which to build, not only for those children and for children of the future, but those inspired historians that we may be able to get as part of this.

The tapestry is, of course, unique. Care of the tapestry is underpinned by expertise on both sides of the channel. There has been concern expressed in some quarters Madam Deputy Speaker, as to whether it will be able to travel safely. I am pleased to say that the British Museum is working closely with its French counterparts, and is bringing its world leading expertise to bear, ensuring that the tapestry can travel here safely for this unprecedented loan and can be seen by as many people as possible, which is key.

I understand, of course, that many areas of the country would claim close links with the Norman Conquest, and so many members of this House would claim a special interest in this area, including where the Bayeux Tapestry may have been made, which seems likely to have been Canterbury. The North of England also has a historic connection to the Norman Conquest, not necessarily exactly positive due to the harrying of the North carried out by William the Conqueror, but I think we can all agree that the Battle of Hastings, as depicted on the tapestry, is of such critical importance to all of our history.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on her tenacious campaigning for her constituents, and particularly in the educational field, seeking to ensure that schoolchildren in her constituency and neighbouring ones are able to see the exhibition, and to understand the significance that the area they live in has to the history of our country. I have been assured by the British Museum that schools in my area will also receive priority booking, reflecting the salience of the area in the events of 1066 and the huge local interest.

And I understand that she, together with the British Museum, is working with South Eastern Railway to offer at least 1066 tickets to schools in 1066 country to get to London at heavily

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reduced rates. Helena Dollimore. I thank the Minister for his commitment to helping the children commitment to helping the children of Hastings get to see this exhibition. Does he recognise that schools that are not as well off as schools that are not as well off as other areas they need that help to get children to the British Museum in north London, whether by coach in north London, whether by coach or train, they simply don't have the spare funds available and all that he can do in his discussions

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with the museum, with donors, with other supporters of access to the arts will be much appreciated. Minister.

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My hon. Friend raises the key principle of the Secretary of State for culture, media and myself in terms of what we do in the terms of what we do in the department right across the country. Being in Edinburgh MP myself, I remember studying the Bayeux Tapestry in primary school some 40 years ago. I know you'll find that hard to believe, but some 40 years ago and having children and ago and having children and schoolchildren really interested in this, we have to make sure they can get here to London, and we have to make sure the educational programme spreads out across the country, and we have to make sure that those who want to see it can see it, because the legacy of this has to be for younger people, as well as those who have an interest in it itself.

I know all of this, though, would not have been achieved without her hard work on behalf of her constituents and their children. The exhibition will be free to all under 16 with a paying adult, wherever they are from. And more broadly, the museum is developing plans for family activities, including an open family festival, 3 to 5 days of activities across all school holidays for the duration of the exhibition, and a finale family festival as well. As part of that, there will also be exclusive school mornings, which will provide free access to schools to see the tapestry during term time.

And on top of this, the museum is planning on rolling out a variety of exciting digital content which children across the whole country will be able to enjoy, whether they be in their history lessons at school or at home with their friends and family. The British Museum is developing an ambitious national programme of education and engagement to raise awareness of the importance of the tapestry and of the Norman Conquest, the history of the whole of the country and to its heritage, culture and language.

Indeed, Norman French is still used in some parliamentary procedures, such as the granting of Royal Assent. As we know, Madam Deputy Speaker, the museum's national programme will involve over 100 different sites who have developed content that demonstrates the far reaching consequences of the Norman Conquest. This includes working with English Heritage, the British Library, the National Archives and Norfolk Museums Service. The aim is to ensure that as many people as possible will be able to take part in and engage with the loan of the tapestry to the British Museum, wherever they are in the country.

And as part of that, the museum itself is working with a range of stakeholders in the Hastings and Battle areas to ensure that the local community is engaged with the exhibition. And I will take away the issues that my hon. Friend raises about not making sure that people can just get to London, but actually tourists and others can go up to 1066 countries to see what there is there to improve that tourist economy and also the experience of the tapestry being here more generally.

The year 2027 marks 1000 years since the birth of William the Conqueror. So the region of Normandy is marking this with a wide ranging series of activities, including on an international level, that will involve Scandinavia, where the Normans originally came from, and areas that their influence reached, such as Ireland, Sicily and the south of Italy, as well as our own country. This is a unique opportunity to deepen and engage the public in the UK France relationship, alongside the wider work on the year of the Normans and the strength of our cultural partnerships, such as the partnerships between the BFI and the French Centre National de cinema and the national heritage bodies of both countries.

Furthermore, in 2027, the tour de France and the tour de France Femmes will be both have their grand departure in the UK, one being from Edinburgh. Of course, there is another demonstration of the close links that exist between the UK and France. I know the friend mentioned potholes in their own constituency and I hope ours are filled in by the time the cyclists come to Edinburgh as well. That is a challenge for the local authority there in Scotland, and indeed it is increasingly polarised and divided world.

The links that culture and sport can create are more important than ever, especially with our close neighbours with whom we share so much history. But I do not provide any luck whatsoever to the British, to the French rugby union team, who will be coming to Murrayfield a week on Saturday for the Six Nations. And those cultural links and sporting links are really important to us all. Of course, the Battle of Hastings is not the only historic event represented in the tapestry. The tapestry starts by showing Harold swearing a solemn oath in Normandy in 1064, after having been shipwrecked there.

The oath is widely assumed to be support of William's claim to the throne of England. The tapestry then shows King Edward the Confessor's funeral at Westminster Abbey, after which Harold claims the throne. It then depicts ships being built in Normandy as William prepares an invasion after Harold had been crowned King of England, before moving on to events in England before the battle itself. After William and his army landed at Pevensey Bay in East Sussex and William ordered a castle to be built there. The Battle of Hastings itself is then depicted, with William at one point raising his helmet to show his troops he was still alive, followed by, of course, the famous scene which seems to show Harold King Harold being killed with an arrow in his eye.

So the tapestry gives an account of how William the Conqueror came to power in England, and as it was likely to have been made on the orders of William's half brother, Bishop Odo, it is obviously an account written or rather embroidered by the victors. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I mentioned, this is a national event and so there will be many other members of this House with a keen interest in the tapestry coming here and the legacy of the Normans as it is felt throughout the United Kingdom.

That said, the Hastings in battle area and 1066 country more generally have a fantastic tourist offer, which is never going to be more relevant than this year and next. So I would encourage the British Museum to strengthen their work with the 1066 Country Tourism Board. And I should note that the British Museum will be hosting a briefing in Parliament on Wednesday, 22nd April to update all parliamentarians on the loan, the exhibition and the museum's National Programme of Education and Engagement, and encourage all interested parties to attend that and to engage with it, and also to Lord Ricketts in the other place.

I very much look forward to seeing the tapestry in the British Museum, and I hope as many as possible of my hon. Friends constituents are able to see it as well, and particularly schoolchildren, so that they can learn about the history of this country through this exceptional work and be inspired for the future. I would urge visitors to the exhibition to follow up their visit with the tapestry by going to see where it all happened in 1066 country, so they can not only see the tapestry, but they can see the very places

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themselves. And I commend my hon. Friend for bringing this debate to the chamber. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many as are of that opinion, say I. The ayes have
11:00
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