Commons Chamber

Tuesday 4th November 2025

(began 3 weeks ago)

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None Portrait Q1. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her policies of the report by CenTax entitled The Impact of Changes to Inheritance Tax on Farm Estates, published on 14 August 2025. (906156)
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Question number one, Mr. Speaker.
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None Portrait Q2. What recent assessment she has made of the adequacy of access to banking services in rural areas. (906158)
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Caroline Voaden. Question number two, Mr. Speaker. Minister. Mr. speaker.
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None Portrait Q3. What steps she is taking to help increase economic growth in Congleton constituency. (906159)
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So right. Question number three, please. Mr. Speaker. Chancellor.
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None Portrait Q4. What steps she is taking with pension providers to help increase regional economic growth. (906160)
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Anna Dixon question. For Mr. Speaker, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the heart of this government's pension reforms is the.
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None Portrait Q6. What assessment she has made of the potential impact of the increase in employer National Insurance contributions on businesses. (906162)
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Mr. Speaker. Chancellor. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The
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None Portrait Q7. What fiscal steps she is taking to help support the Scotch whisky industry. (906163)
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Maureen Burke. Speaker. Minister.
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Alice Macdonald Portrait Alice Macdonald MP (Norwich North, Labour )
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treatment. In 2023, 52,400 patients underwent IVF in the UK. These are not statistics. These are our not statistics. These are our friends, our colleagues, our constituents. And right now they are not entitled to the support that they deserve. This has, of course, an especially big impact on women, given that they are the ones most often undergoing fertility most often undergoing fertility treatment in the form of IVF. But currently, there is no legal right to paid time off to attend to paid time off to attend fertility appointments.

You have to hope that you have an understanding employer or as I shall come to take employer or as I shall come to take sick leave or annual leave instead. In fact, the Equality Act Code of Practice on employment makes a comparison between a woman having comparison between a woman having fertility treatment and a man having cosmetic dental surgery. How can that be right? Because let's be can that be right? Because let's be clear fertility treatment is not a lifestyle choice. It is a necessity for so many people.

But as I have heard from many women, some employers do treat fertility treatments as an elective procedure and don't allow employee employees time off, as would be the case for other medical procedures. And let's be clear, IVF is not a simple filling or a dental clean up. A single cycle of IVF typically involves 5 to 7 appointments, often involves 5 to 7 appointments, often at short notice, with timing dictated by hormone levels and follicle development that cannot be follicle development that cannot be predicted throughout your pumping.

Your body full of hormones and drugs, which can have an extraordinary physical and emotional toll. In fact, research conducted by Fertility matters at work. And can I pay tribute to them for all their work on this issue, showed that 87% of people say they experience anxiety or depression directly related to their treatment. Mr Speaker. So many stories have been shared with me and with other organisations about the impact of having no legal right to paid time off for fertility treatment, how women have had to use all of their annual leave, how they face disciplinary action, how they hid what they are going through from their employers, and how huge a toll this has had on their mental and physical health.

An already stressful time. People in particular women, are having to navigate more uncertainty and stress. That's why I'm bringing this bill forward, because of the huge impact the current situation has on many of our constituents. Sarah's story, whose name I've changed for legal reasons, paints this clearly. After pouring her all into her job for five years, Sarah and her husband decided it was the right time to start a family after months trying to conceive. She began IVF. What followed, in her own words, completely blindsided her.

The staggering number of tests, the drop everything at once appointments, the cocktail of drugs that she would have to inject into her body in her office toilet. Sarah feared disclosing to her employer that she was undergoing fertility treatment, and she was right to, because Sarah developed complications and had to spend weeks in hospital, which meant she had to tell her employer that she was undergoing IVF. Not long after, her boss suddenly decided suddenly told her that she needed to work abroad. When she explained that she needed to be close to her IVF doctor, she was told she had to go anyway.

An employment lawyer told her she had no legal grounds to challenge. The choice she was left with was stay or leave, family or career. It was a choice she never should have had to make. This cannot be right Mr Speaker. The situation currently is deeply unfair, and the disproportionate impact this has on women contributes to wider equality challenges, such as the gender pay gap and career progression. And the most extreme cases women are having to choose between a career and a child. So the bill I present to this House aims to right this wrong.

It is straightforward. It creates a statutory right to pay time off for employees undergoing fertility treatment for all necessary appointments, and it gives partners a right to time off, too. And that's important because, as one person said, I wanted to be there at the conception of my child. Mr. speaker, I do not think that is an unreasonable request. The bill mirrors the existing framework for antenatal care, recognising that fertility treatment is equally deserving of workplace protection. And fundamentally, the question it places before this House is whether we believe that everyone who wishes to have a child deserves a fair chance at doing so.

Of whether the state will support all its citizens who have chosen this path, of whether we have a moral duty to level the playing field for those who, at no fault of their own, find themselves struggling to get pregnant. This is about fairness. And on that point of fairness, while this bill is limited in its scope to employment rights, we must also tackle the postcode lottery of access to NHS funded IVF cycles, which organisations like Fertility Action and LGBT mummies have so powerfully campaigned to address.

Because currently fewer than 10% of icbs in England offer the recommended three cycles of IVF, your chances at having a baby should not depend on where you live. But to return to this bill, Mr. Speaker, it is also in our own national interest, as Becky Cairns from Fertility Matters at Work has said. This is also a workforce crisis hiding in plain sight. We're facing a global fertility decline, but failing to support those actively, to start a family trying to start a family.

Last year, fertility rates in England and Wales reached an all time low, falling for the third year in a row to 1.41 children per woman. In order to even just sustain current population levels, it needs to be 2.1. So we need more people to have babies, and we should be helping those who wish to become parents and grow their families, raising the future workers and taxpayers of this country will depend upon this. Of course, not the only solution to falling fertility rates, but it would help.

And meanwhile, Mr. Speaker, amid this climate of stigma of women being afraid of revealing their ongoing undergoing treatment, there is a very real cost for British business. Without the right to receive time off, up to 63% of people take sick leave to attend appointments. And because many are concerned about telling their employers, they are often taking whole days off to hide their appointments instead of the few hours they actually require. And recent research actually published this week estimates that this is costing UK employers up to 54 million in unplanned sick leave every year alone.

Just one example of the cost to businesses. So providing a statutory right doesn't just protect employees, it gives them permission to take time openly and plan it with their employer. Transforming chaos into clarity for everyone. Mr. speaker, let me add that access and treatment can be even more challenging for those working in certain circumstances, such as shift work or travelling often. And in fact, it's smart business, too, because 86% of employees would be attracted to a role in an organisation that provides fertility support.

And indeed, there are already many businesses who recognise this is not only the right thing to do, but their own interest too. Businesses like Centrica, Cadent Gas and Aviva, which has a strong presence in my constituency, have all voluntarily given paid time off to their employees for fertility treatment. But whether someone can attend their fertility appointment should not depend on luck of the draw, a kind manager or an understanding employer. It should be the norm for everyone. And in many other countries, bespoke employment legislation has already been developed.

People in countries including South Korea and Malta are entitled to a right to paid time off for fertility treatment. Mr. speaker, we have come a long way as a society. For decades, we've provided paid time off for antenatal leave, maternity leave and soon, thanks to Labour's employment rights bill. Day one rights of paternity and parental leave and bereavement loss. Bereavement leave for pregnancy loss. But we must look at fertility treatment too, because the pathway to parenthood, as I know myself, is not always easy.

And this bill will also help shift the culture and narrative in workplaces about a topic that has remained taboo for far too long. And I know that there has been support across the House for this change. I pay tribute to the former conservative member Nikki Aitken, who introduced a similar private member's bill in the last Parliament. And I also like to thank the government and current Ministers and past Ministers for their engagement with me on this issue today. I know that they are listening.

And if we cannot get a change in the law soon, I would encourage members to ask businesses in their constituency if they will join others by voluntarily providing paid time off for fertility treatment. Finally, Mr. Speaker, it is deeply fitting that this bill is presented in Fertility Week, a time to challenge taboos and raise awareness of the devastating physical, emotional and social impacts fertility problems can cause. And how better could this house show that it is alive to these issues, to these injustices, by giving its support for this bill today? This bill is about fairness.

It's about saying to the thousands of people who undergo fertility treatment every year that we see we support you and should not have to face this alone. It's morally right. It's right for our economy and it's right for our national interests. And I commend this bill to the

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House today. The hon. Member have leave to bring in the bill. The question is bring in the bill. The question is that the hon. Member have leave to bring in the bill. As many of that bring in the bill. As many of that opinion say I. Of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes

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I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Who will prepare to bring in Bill Andrew Pakes. Daniel Francis. Jess Asato. Kate

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Daniel Francis. Jess Asato. Kate Osborne. Matt Turmaine Michael Wheeler Olivia Blake Rachel Blake Sarah Owen Sarah Russell Stella Sarah Owen Sarah Russell Stella Creasy and myself, Mr. speaker.

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Alice Macdonald. Fertility treatment.

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Fertility treatment. Right to time off. Bill Second Reading what day? Friday the 28th of November.

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Friday the 28th of November.

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Hold on. Right. We now come to the Opposition Day motion on supporting. Opposition Day motion on supporting. Please inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. We now call the Shadow Secretary of State Andrew Griffith to move. Thank you,
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Andrew Griffith Portrait Andrew Griffith MP (Arundel and South Downs, Conservative)
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Andrew Griffith to move. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased. To move the motion in my name and that of the Leader of the and that of the Leader of the Opposition. We celebrate. And support our high streets, their

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independent shops, the warm refuge they provide from. Loneliness. The way they incubate new

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The way they incubate new business. They bring us together as communities, provide markets for local farmers and food producers, offer venues for street festivals, and so often afford young people and so often afford young people their first step on the career ladder. But Mr. Speaker, across ladder. But Mr. Speaker, across Britain's high streets, the lights are dimming, the laughter in our pubs is falling and shutters on pubs is falling and shutters on shops are coming down for the last time.

When high streets thrive, time. When high streets thrive, communities thrive. And when our high streets retreat, so does civic high streets retreat, so does civic society. We conservatives profoundly value our high street profoundly value our high street enterprises, and that is why one of our first actions in government will be to abolish business rates for thousands of retail, hospitality and leisure businesses in July. The Chancellor said she will make the UK the best place to start and grow a business. Well, start and grow a business.

Well, goodness me, she's got an odd way of showing it. In her very first budget, the Chancellor slapped budget, the Chancellor slapped businesses with a 25 billion tax raid, a National Insurance jobs tax that hit high street businesses the hardest, costing business owners more simply for giving someone a job. She more than doubled. I'll

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happily give. Way. To give away. Hospitality was. Particularly

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Hospitality was. Particularly hit with this toxic concoction, and found. That.

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76% put up their. Prices, one third. Restricted their. Hours, and 63% had to cut their

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Hours, and 63% had to cut their staffing to manage the toxic concoction. Isn't this the reason why we need this policy in place to

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try and improve our high streets? Well, my right hon. Friend makes exactly the right point, and it's a exactly the right point, and it's a devastating concoction from the Chancellor last year. And I believe I'm right in saying that UK I'm right in saying that UK hospitality calibrated that 98,000 jobs have been lost across the jobs have been lost across the hospitality sector. How proud must this opposition, this government, be of costing mostly young, often vulnerable people their first chance? Yes, I'll give way.



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chance? Yes, I'll give way. My hon. Friend. He's giving a powerful speech. Hospitality, of course, is fundamental to social mobility, and I would have thought that members opposite would be ashamed of policies which mean that those furthest away from the labour those furthest away from the labour market, young people trying to get their first job are being put off because hospitality is the because hospitality is the essential enabler of that, and they have put blocks in the way of life.

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Andrew Griffith well, my right hon. Friend is exactly right. And let's be optimistic. We're here to let's be optimistic. We're here to celebrate our history. It's perhaps, Mr. Speaker, all is not lost. The Chancellor could yet repent, reverse some of her most damaging policies, or indeed adopt our policies, or indeed adopt our policy of cutting business rates entirely for a quarter of a million high street businesses. Yes, I'll

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high street businesses. Yes, I'll give way to the honourable. Extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. When I visited Salisbury Gentleman. When I visited Salisbury Chambers of Commerce on Friday, they gave me the example of a single mother doing 30 hours a week single mother doing 30 hours a week on the National Living Wage, where the combination of the increase in national living wage, the threshold national living wage, the threshold changes and the rate changes on national Insurance mean for that particular individual, it costs particular individual, it costs them 11% more than it did last year.

Consequentially, they can't take on anyone else. What does the hon.

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anyone else. What does the hon. Gentleman think about that in terms of what its impact on the economy? Andrew Griffith well, the right

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Andrew Griffith well, the right hon. Gentleman represents his constituents in Salisbury diligently, and makes exactly the diligently, and makes exactly the same point, a point which, with respect, if the government had understood business or the Treasury understood business or the Treasury had paused to consider or conducted an impact assessment, in particular, that capricious change in thresholds from 9100 down to 5000 without any impact assessment from the Treasury, has done immense damage to high street businesses. They should hang their heads in shame.

Yes,

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He will know that cafes and small cafes play an important part on the high street, bringing people on the high street, bringing people in. But is he aware that under this government, mushrooms are up, bacon is up, eggs are up, sausages are up, red is up, tea is up, milk is up. red is up, tea is up, milk is up. And there in is a threat to the full English breakfast. And there are many things that this are many things that this government might be forgiven for.

But taking away the full English breakfast from the high street is

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not one of them. Well, I enjoy a full English as

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Well, I enjoy a full English as much as I suspect my colleague does. And it's not just it's not just breakfast, it's lunch, it's supper, breakfast, it's lunch, it's supper, it's tea, it's dinner. And it's the Great British Pub, all of whom are under threat, of course.

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Thanks. Steve, for. Bringing this forward. And I welcome the debate on this. But welcome the debate on this. But just to be always be constructive and be encouraging. Are my local and be encouraging. Are my local council back home, for instance, Ards and North Down Council. The scheme, the new thriving high scheme, the new thriving high street. This council grant has enabled shop owners to repaint their premises, provide new signage to take address the blight of to take address the blight of vacant shops.

Online shopping without Investment Zones the high street can't survive. So does the Shadow Minister agree that that scheme that we have back home in Northern Ireland, and my council is one that council, the government should, should give to councils here to to give the initiative and

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to help the jobs and replenish and rebuild the high street. Andrew Griffith I do agree with

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Andrew Griffith I do agree with my hon. Friend, and there is so much there is so much that we in much there is so much that we in this House that this government, if it is so minded to do so, can do to alleviate the burden of business. alleviate the burden of business. It is hard to run a business at the best of times, and it's even more best of times, and it's even more so when the government seeks to be a headwind, not a tailwind.

I've got so many wonderful contributions from my colleagues. I'm sure the hon. Gentleman will have his chance later on.

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later on. To great grateful to my hon. might.

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might. Like to reflect on is the. Perverse situation that. People find themselves in when.

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People find themselves in when. Facing VAT, so the. £90,000 threshold is causing.

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threshold is causing. Many small. Business people. To. Adjust their behaviour.

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Adjust their behaviour. week. From five days to four or to three, like barbers for example.

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three, like barbers for example. Would he agree with me that the. Treasury needs to look. At the increased tax take that they may.

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they may. Have in the event. That they change. VAT thresholds. To allow. Those small businesses

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to work full time. Or Andrew Griffith. My hon. Friend makes an

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My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and I believe, like me, who recently had the wonderful opportunity to meet Doctor Arthur Laffer, who pioneered economic research about the impact of research about the impact of reducing taxes and actually increasing both the growth rate of increasing both the growth rate of the economy. But the tax take to the Treasury as a consequence. And it's a very important point about

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it's a very important point about incentives and what we in this Gentleman. I welcome.

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I welcome. He makes notes about the level of the tax rate. Isn't the important point also to talk to the important point also to talk to the actual tax gap that exists in this country, £46.8 billion, of which £6. country, £46.8 billion, of which £6. billion is linked to tax evasion. Actually, a lot of it we're seeing on our high streets up and down the length of the country. So I welcome some comments from him about what he thinks should be done to tackle

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he thinks should be done to tackle that across government. Mr. speaker, I'm afraid, I'm afraid the hon. Gentleman must have afraid the hon. Gentleman must have overstayed the predecessor. Oral questions to the Chancellor, because what we're doing here today because what we're doing here today is celebrating, cherishing and supporting our high streets, not not accusing our constituent businesses of tax evasion. But I'm sure he will have he will have impressed. He will have impressed his Treasury colleagues, who are never shy about trying to transfer wealth from the private sector to

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the less productive public sector. Desmond Swayne from Microbusinesses increased.

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Microbusinesses increased. Turnover increased. Profits should be a means of celebration,

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should be a means of celebration, but the reality is, with the reduced VAT threshold, actually. Crossing that.

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Crossing that. Threshold can be a disaster because so many small businesses, their. Suppliers are themselves.

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Suppliers are themselves. Small businesses. There's no VAT they can reclaim. It can be dreadful.

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Again, an excellent point. And the point is not just and this is something the Chancellor, who's spreading uncertainty and consternation again this morning, should think about in terms of the conduct of HMRC, because whilst business absolutely understands that part of its role is to contribute to society, to the contribute to society, to the community in which they contribute, HMRC, it seems, goes out of the way HMRC, it seems, goes out of the way so often to make it hard for our businesses.

This is an organisation that literally sought to turn its that literally sought to turn its telephone lines off for six months of the year, until the previous government refused to allow them to government refused to allow them to do that. Hospitality venues, and we've talked about those are really suffering. They're actually at the apex of the changes to employment law, to taxes and to business rates. And I had the opportunity. I'll make some progress. Well, I had the opportunity to visit the Queen's Head in the constituency of my hon.

Friend, the Member for Ruislip last week, who brought home to me the challenges that they are facing. Of course, we all hon. Members here representing constituencies and traders on high streets like Arundel, Midhurst, Petworth, Pulborough, Storrington and Henfield have worked tirelessly throughout history to make our high streets and our communities what they are today. But from an unacceptable time that it's taken to in a minute to to fix the fire damaged Angel Inn in Midhurst, to the imposition of higher parking charges by Liberal Democrat councillors.

Too often government is a headwind, not a tailwind. I'll give way.

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The hon. Member for. Giving way. He's talking about the importance of high streets in my own constituency of Hastings town centre, £250,000 of levelling up money was given to renovate the up money was given to renovate the old Debenhams building and open a family fun factory. Sadly, that closed after a couple of weeks. The staff weren't paid and it was boarded up in the town centre. I wonder if he could help me, because

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wonder if he could help me, because that taxpayer money was given to one of the biggest conservative donors, Luton North. Chernobyl.

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Chernobyl. And she is left with the money. She is not replied to my letter asking for that money back for the asking for that money back for the people of Hastings. So I wonder if he or perhaps the Member for Witham, who received £70,000 from her last

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who received £70,000 from her last year, could help me get a response about where our money is. Can I can I just just check? You

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Can I can I just just check? You have let the members know that you're okay. Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm sure the hon. Lady will wish to take that up with Ministers through the appropriate channels. But. But there will not be many fun there will not be many fun factories on our high streets when they feel the burden of Labour's further changes and running a further changes and running a business, something we understand on this side of the House is not easy at the best of times.

But easy at the best of times. But thanks to this Chancellor and this government, these are far from the best of times. For the average pub business, rates have soared from £4,000 per year to over £9,000 per year. And what have we learned this morning that the Chancellor is coming back for more? A year ago, she promised she was done, that her tax rate on business was the end of it. She's leading us down the garden path. Spending is out of control and she expects taxpayers

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businesses to clear up her mess. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just my hon. Friend, agree with me. The hon. Friend, agree with me. The truth here is that we have a government that simply does not understand business. They seem to understand business. They seem to think that you can just squeeze and squeeze small businesses because they make unlimited profit. You do

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they make unlimited profit. You do that. There will be no businesses left on our high streets. Andrew Griffith.

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My hon. Friend, is my right hon. Friend is absolutely right and you just have to look at the wording of the motion in front of us today and the motion in front of us today and the amendment from the government on this side of the House. We talk on this side of the House. We talk about lifting the burden, removing business rates, cutting red tape and putting more action on crime in and putting more action on crime in our high streets. On that side of the house, they talk about compulsory purchase.

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about more grants, more subsidies, and are not interested in levelling the burden of business. I'll give way.

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I'll give way. I thank. My right hon. Friend for giving way. Does he agree with me that the reality is agree with me that the reality is the government presents an illusion of choice? I'll give him a very brief example. I met a business owner in my constituency two weeks owner in my constituency two weeks ago. It's a young couple. They own a hospitality business. Two young children. One is three weeks old. children. One is three weeks old. They're buying a new house.

And they've said to me that because of the pressures bearing down on them as a result of choices made by this government, they fear for the future of the business. It may have to close next year. Isn't the

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government just giving people an illusion of a choice, when in economy? Absolutely right. And the choices that businesses face are enormously difficult every single day. The choice do they put up day. The choice do they put up prices to try and claw back some of the damage, some of that 25 billion cost, thereby increasing inflation, cost, thereby increasing inflation, keep interest rates higher for longer, pushing up the cost of living. Or do they reduce the living. Or do they reduce the number of employees or the hours per employer, or do they simply per employer, or do they simply fold in the face of disincentives, lack of support? Headwinds, not tailwinds? Do they simply shut up shop before the next intervention from the Chancellor, heaping on from the Chancellor, heaping on more and more burdens? I'll give way.



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Carla Lockhart giving way. He's making a very powerful speech. High streets across my constituency of Upper Bann are struggling, and Upper Bann are struggling, and additional burden they carry is a parcels border in the Irish Sea. Because of the Windsor framework Because of the Windsor framework and the protocol, a children's clothes retailer, it cost them over £200 to get a delivery from GB. £200 to get a delivery from GB. Would he agree with me that this is an extra burden that retailers should not have to carry, and that the government needs to do the government needs to do something about it quickly before business?

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Andrew Griffith well, prioritising the needs of business rather than giving away our fishing rather than giving away our fishing for 12 years and getting nothing in return because of a dogma, rather than spending time on international than spending time on international affairs, giving away the British Indian Ocean territories and paying for the privilege. Those specific barriers that the hon. Member talks about that will make a huge about that will make a huge difference to businesses in her constituency is absolutely what the focus of this government should be.

focus of this government should be. But, Mr. Speaker, you know, it's not just the Chancellor. The not just the Chancellor. The business secretary seems to be doing his bit, too, creating more small businesses by shrinking small businesses by shrinking existing large ones. His 330 page unemployment bill back before us tomorrow will make life a nightmare for every employer on our high for every employer on our high streets. It will make flexible and seasonal working impossible. It will prevent employers taking a risk on young people.

Work returners, some of the most returners, some of the most vulnerable people in society for fear of joining the backlog of fear of joining the backlog of 490,000 claims at the Employment tribunal. If the hon. Lady wants to intervene to talk about what

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they're doing to help employment, I'd love to hear. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Flexible labour market under the Tories labour market under the Tories meant you were employed, but you didn't know when you were working. How long are you working for and

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How long are you working for and how much you were getting paid? Andrew Griffith you you you don't improve workers rights by don't improve workers rights by making them unemployed, by creating a generation of jobless young a generation of jobless young people who can't find their way into work, a gainful employment, into work, a gainful employment, and. No. And and you know, and you know what? It's not just these know what? It's not just these benches, even the finishing school for socialists, the Resolution Foundation opposes Labour's bill Foundation opposes Labour's bill because of the unemployment that it will yield.

And what this shows us will yield. And what this shows us is that the government are simply not serious about business. We not serious about business. We conservatives get it. And many of us have worked in business ourselves. We understand that business, take risks, create wealth business, take risks, create wealth and employ millions. That is why we introduced business rates relief introduced business rates relief before this Labour government cut it, and it is why we will introduce it, and it is why we will introduce a 100% rates relief for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses, taking 250,000 high street premises out of business rates entirely.



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I'm very grateful on business rates. You'll be delighted to know. Of course, it was the SNP in Of course, it was the SNP in anywhere in the United Kingdom that introduced business rates relief first for small businesses. But on the business literacy that he critiques quite accurately of the Labour government opposite, is he concerned that that manifests concerned that that manifests itself in deeply disingenuous moves, like taking a penny off the price like taking a penny off the price of a pint, when for the same pub like the bank in Dunkeld or the Stag in Forfar, they are putting up Stag in Forfar, they are putting up their National Insurance and seeing their energy bills go through the roof.

This government cannot join

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roof. This government cannot join the dots. Is he concerned that this is only going to get worse? Andrew Griffith. I'm enormously concerned. I was concerned when I woke up this morning, and I'm even more concerned having the having heard the intervention from our the intervention from our Chancellor. No certainty, confidence plummeting and the

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confidence plummeting and the promise of more taxes to follow. I think the. Minister for giving way. I'm just I'm hoping that he's going to

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just I'm hoping that he's going to explain. I totally agree that business rates needs to reform. I am deeply concerned about. The hole in local.

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The hole in local. Government finance. That will. Cause my local council. Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole has calculated £66 million

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and Poole has calculated £66 million they retain from business rates. Can you please confirm where that will come from? Well.

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To coin a phrase, we're not going to balance the books of local going to balance the books of local government on the back of entrepreneurial businesses who are keeping our high streets alive, who are providing services to the community and allowing our economy to grow.

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to grow. I thank the honourable. I thank the. Shadow Minister for giving way. When I. When his.

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When his. Party came into government in. 2010, I worked in the. Animal store in Queen's Arcade in in Cardiff. It was an. Anchor

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Cardiff. It was an. Anchor institution for. The arcade. It brought. People in. And made sure that. Retail was was thriving in the community.

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was thriving in the community. When his. Party left government 14 years later, the animal store was closed,

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later, the animal store was closed, as were. The majority. Of the other units. In the arcade. Can he comment why that happened under his party's watch? Yeah.

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Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Our we were in charge in the particular we were in charge in the particular area he talked about, but I'm pleased to know. But but I'm pleased to know that like so many pleased to know that like so many of us, he had his first experience of work, his first leg up, his first opportunity at work in the retail and hospitality sector. And it's something that's enormously important and gives people great opportunities in life.

I've talked about, I've talked about, I've talked about our I've talked about

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our promises. Mr Speaker to I. Responsibility. I'll be very we'll, we'll I

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I'll be very we'll, we'll I don't want to get too deflected by by stories about the animal store by stories about the animal store in which the the hon. Members clearly has enormously fond recollections and spend spent many, recollections and spend spent many, many a happy hour. I'll give way and then I suspect I should make a bit more progress.

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bit more progress. I'm. I'm very grateful to the hon. Member for giving way. And to.

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animals. Much as I. Would love. To talk about animals today. In Epping Forest Mr Speaker, we

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In Epping Forest Mr Speaker, we have fantastic. Pubs. Restaurants. Cafes like. The Queen. Vic, IL, Bacio, Gosht.

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Vic, IL, Bacio, Gosht. Aleko. Papaya and Poppies. They are all struggling. Under this Labour government. Does he.

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Does he. Agree with. Me that that we should listen, that the government should listen

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that the government should listen to our sensible proposals to cut business rates and help them get their energy and. Food costs.

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Bills down? Yeah. I absolutely agree with that. And look, one of the strengths and And look, one of the strengths and we're all here individually today representing our fantastic constituencies, our wonderful high streets, our entrepreneurial streets, our entrepreneurial businesses, those residents and constituents who seek to be employed and contribute to the growing part of our economy, which is why it is so important and why this side of the House. We are here to talk about our plan to save the high street, not to make the sort of partisan points we're hearing

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from the opposite side. I thank. The shadow Secretary for giving way. Family businesses for giving way. Family businesses are crucial to our high street. Certainly mine in Inverurie, Ellon, Turriff and Huntly. They are the Turriff and Huntly. They are the backbone of our high streets. But not only the exchanges and not only the Employment Rights Bill, the business property relief being slashed by this government will slashed by this government will have a huge impact to our high streets, to employment on our high streets.

What does the Shadow streets. What does the Shadow Secretary think of this, and what can we do to help our high streets, them?

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them? there. Are so many family businesses who will be devastated by the family business death tax introduced by the party opposite, and we often hear about the plight of farmers and food producers. But it is even more numerous the number of family businesses. So if you've of family businesses. So if you've survived Labour's job tax, if you've survived, they're more than doubling of business rates. If doubling of business rates. If you've survived so much more of the red tape being imposed by the party opposite all that awaits you when you seek to pass your business or your family farmed on to the next generation is Labour's family business death tax, which is why, business death tax, which is why, as part of our plan for the high street on this side of the House, we will repeal those damaging

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we will repeal those damaging measures and I hope the hon. Lady too. Thank you.

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For giving way. No, I'd like to remind the Shadow Minister that we, on this side of the House, talk up

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our high streets. All I can hear from the opposite benches is people. And the people. In the high street. And the

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In the high street. And the people in and on and on. Red tape. The businesses in my constituency, the family businesses in my the family businesses in my constituency, were desperate to get rid of the red tape that your side of the house caused during your botched Brexit deals. And does he agree with me that this government, by giving £5 billion of funding for by giving £5 billion of funding for the Pride in Place scheme, is doing a lot more to support our high streets than his government ever did? Yes.



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did? Yes. Look, a valiant attempt to return to past history when on this side of the House, we're looking forward. Our plan for the high street looks forward, not backwards. street looks forward, not backwards. Our plan for the High Street seeks to remedy the damage that has been done not over past years, but over past months. And even again this morning. The collapse in confidence morning. The collapse in confidence caused by our Chancellor. And it's of course.

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of course. Grateful for him giving way. Iain Duncan Smith I wonder, I wonder if my old friend would reflect on the fact that many of those on the opposite benches who have clearly been dragooned in here to support the government, as often happens in government. God help us. But the reality is that when they're on their high streets, do you think they go down the high street telling their shops, it's great to have National Insurance charges so high that you can't employ anybody? It's great to have an employment bill.

That means you won't be able to employ anybody again. And with the rates that are there, you may well be out of business. Suck it up. Do they think they tell them that leaflets?

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It's it's my right hon. Friend makes exactly the right point, and it's it's genuinely bewildering. it's it's genuinely bewildering. And we will see this again tomorrow, that when every single major business group in the country urges business group in the country urges this government not to proceed with its damaging unemployment bill, its damaging unemployment bill, when Labour think tanks urge the government not to proceed with that bill, and when not a single bill, and when not a single business can be named by a Labour Minister in support of that bill.

Other than the co-op and one that's over, that's overseas. Why this government? Why this government government? Why this government seek to proceed with that? And so we've talked. I'll make some progress, Mr. speaker. We've talked progress, Mr. speaker. We've talked about the damage being done by the Chancellor. We've talked about business rates and our plan to business rates and our plan to reform those and give the high street a chance. But there's more, Mr. speaker. Our cheap power plan Mr. speaker.

Our cheap power plan will cut bills, energy bills by 20%, with the average restaurant saving with the average restaurant saving a very real £5,000 and the average pub saving 1100. Perhaps the benches opposite would like to benches opposite would like to emulate that energy plan, and we will save the high street from the will save the high street from the scourge of crime and shoplifting and early release of prisoners by hiring another 10,000 police officers, tripling the use of stop and search, and reversing Labour's release of criminals that will make our high streets safer.

We will repeal those most damaging elements of the Employment Rights Bill, and rather than pay lip service to cutting red tape, we will take a real chainsaw to bureaucracy and blockages to business, from planning to licensing to Ir35 and so much more. So, Mr. Speaker, we stand with the makers, not the takers, the people who put their time, energy and money on the line to make our communities a better place. We know you don't build prosperity by punishing those who create it.

You don't revive our high streets by taxing them into submission, and you can't protect a worker by bankrupting their employer. So our message to the government today is simple give them the confidence they need. Remove the threat of taxes hanging over their head. Listen to the voice of business and support our plans to support our brilliant high

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streets. The question is on the Order Paper. I now call Minister Paper. I now call Minister Varnbüler to move the amendment Minister.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I beg to move the amendment standing in the Prime Minister's names on the Order Prime Minister's names on the Order Paper today. Look, let me start with where I agree with the hon. Member. Our town and city centres Member. Our town and city centres are part of our identity and our sense of belonging. When they don't meet expectations, when shops are meet expectations, when shops are shut and footfall is down, it can dent Pride in Place. It can hold back the economy and leave our back the economy and leave our communities divided.

Put simply, it's part of the nation's barometer of whether we are all in this House are doing a good job. But this also means that when our high streets means that when our high streets prosper, the country can too. Retail and hospitality formed the engine of our economy. Every pound
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Miatta Fahnbulleh Portrait Miatta Fahnbulleh MP (Peckham, Labour )
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this debate and pretending they have solutions. The shift to online and out of town retail left too many high streets with increased vacancy rates, and they did absolutely nothing about it. Austerity and cuts to local government robbed our public realm of investment, and they did absolutely nothing about it. But the harshest, the harshest pain of all was felt because of the cost of living pressures resulting from Liz Truss. Remember her Liz Truss catastrophic mini budget, which the members opposite supported every step of the way? So where the conservatives oversaw neglect and decline for which they should hold their heads in shame, this Labour government, this Labour government believes the best days of the nation's high streets are ahead of us.

But to reach but we reach, that we need the full force of government to make this a reality. Only by raising household incomes and putting more money in people's pockets can we boost demand that our high streets needs and and to the Conservative Party who pretend there is a quick fix, I say this you crashed the economy. Don't forget that you put jobs and livelihoods at risk. Do not forget that you oversaw 14 years of decline for our high street and our district centres.

This Labour government is dealing with the mess that you left behind. And so, quite

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frankly, we will take no lectures from the side opposite. The Minister for giving way.

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The Minister for giving way. Does she regret the fact that unemployment has gone up every single month since Labour came to single month since Labour came to power, and every single day of the 14 years of the conservative 14 years of the conservative government, 800 more people came into work, 4 million in total. Surely she must recognise these facts away from her, albeit rather

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facts away from her, albeit rather brilliant and fiery rhetoric. Church Minister. Any economist will tell you

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Any economist will tell you there is always a lag. So what we are now seeing are the consequence, are now seeing are the consequence, are the consequence or the consequence of the last party's failure. We are fixing the mess. We are fixing the foundations in order to repair. And let me give example, let me give examples of that. So growth is our priority for the growth is our priority for the nation's high street. But we also recognise that historically the effects of this have not been effects of this have not been equally felt.

That is why we are giving communities greater control over their area so they can drive the change they want to see. In September, the community secretary and I set out the government's Pride in Place programme and Pride in Place programme and strategy across the 244 places which need it the most. I come back which need it the most. I come back to the fact places that were neglected by the party opposite. We will deliver up to 20 million of funding and support. It will be up to new neighbourhood boards to decide how this is spent over the next decade, but each area will be encouraged to use the funding to build thriving public places.

I

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will give. You, I thank the Minister for giving way, and would she agree giving way, and would she agree with me that the £1.5 million that Monmouthshire in my constituency is going to get for the high streets going to get for the high streets that we have there, will make a huge impact and help deliver the change that we so vitally need in

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change that we so vitally need in our high streets here. My hon. Friend is completely right. Through our Pride in Place right. Through our Pride in Place Impact Fund, we are providing a cash injection to places across the country 95 places. This will be country 95 places. This will be spent by local authorities specifically in order to drive and improve high streets. Direct action, improve high streets. Direct action, tangible action that this Labour government is taking against. I come back 14 years of decline.

I

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come back 14 years of decline. I will give way. To the Minister giving way. I know she's a London MP and spends a know she's a London MP and spends a lot of time reading the Shropshire Star, so I'm sure she'll be aware of a recent report in the Shropshire Star that said, year on year, there's been an increase of 15.5% of businesses who are in severe distress across the West Midlands. Year on year, it's 11.9%. Midlands. Year on year, it's 11.9%.

Doesn't she finally get it that raising taxes does not grow the

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raising taxes does not grow the economy? Yeah. Minister. Mr. speaker, what I'd say is we absolutely understand the pressure that businesses are under. And what I would say is that pressure did not happen overnight. They are the consequence of 14 years where we have not seen productivity growth. They are the consequence of 14 years where the economy hasn't grown. Now we understand the economic reality and we are taking action to respond to that economic reality. But candidly, I think it's pretty disingenuous for the party opposite to pretend that the foundations that they left the economy were absolutely corrosive and decimated.

That is the

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inheritance. That is the inheritance we're building on. I'll give way. I thank the Minister for giving way.

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way. her. Intervention time and isn't part of the issue. And certainly in Harlow, we've got a lot of sole

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Harlow, we've got a lot of sole traders and workmen who women who obviously are self-employed. Part of the issue they face is. Long waits to actually and get

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Long waits to actually and get seen at the NHS, which has a huge, huge impact on their business. So isn't it right that we need to

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isn't it right that we need to invest in the NHS and we should welcome the record investment this government has put into the NHS? My friend is absolutely right.

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My friend is absolutely right. We know that there is a fundamental link between public services that work and can support people across the economy and how well the the economy and how well the economy does. Now, this Labour government has made the decision that it is right for us to invest that it is right for us to invest in our public services. It's right for us to invest in our NHS because it is good for people, but it is it is good for people, but it is also good for the economy and we do not result from that decision.

I will give way to the Tim Farron.

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will give way to the Tim Farron. May I strongly empathise with the Minister's articulate fury at the previous government and the the previous government and the damage they did to our village, our village and town centres? But will? village and town centres? But will? But will she acknowledge the fact that Cumbria Tourism, which. Represents the huge employers, 60,000 employers and employees in in Cumbria, reflect that the National Insurance rise has seen 37% of those businesses cutting staff.

34% of them freezing pay, 33% halting recruitment. So isn't that likely to reduce the tax take, as well as damaging business generally and reducing our ability to support the public services that she says she's so passionate about?

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Thank you to the hon. Member for his intervention. Look, we understand that businesses across understand that businesses across all sectors are under pressure. We are working with the tourism sector because it is absolutely vital to because it is absolutely vital to the growth of the wider economy. We're working with all sectors, and what I would say is that it requires a whole set of requires a whole set of interventions, whether that is what we are talking about today in terms of our high street or it is the of our high street or it is the action that we're trying to take in order to support training and skills for the workforce, or it is the investment that we're putting the investment that we're putting in the economy.

We recognise the pressure. But I would come back to the fact that pressure did not come the fact that pressure did not come overnight. It is 14 years. If you decimate the economy, 14 years if you underinvest in the economy, you you underinvest in the economy, you end up where we are now. The choice for this Labour side is that we can now do that job of renewal. But it now do that job of renewal. But it takes time and we recognise it takes time, but that is a journey that we are determined to go alongside business.



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alongside business. I thank the Minister for giving way. In a polycentric city like Stoke on Trent, we've got six town centres as well as many other areas of trade. But one of the big things that affected us under the last conservative government, when we conservative government, when we had a conservative council in Stoke on Trent, was the closure of five of the six town centre police stations, meaning town centres felt stations, meaning town centres felt unsafe and a complete hollowing out of our bus network, meaning that many people couldn't get to the town centres to spend their hard earned money in the shops.

Would she be able to set up what this government is doing to reverse

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those terrible trends? Under the last government Minister. Thank you to my hon. Friend, for setting out all the failures and setting out all the failures and mistakes that we are now having to fix. And we're very, very conscious of that. This is why, through our Pride in Place strategy, for example, we introduced an action plan that was fundamentally about how we. I will make some progress how we. I will make some progress about how we build strong communities, how we create thriving places, and how we allow our communities to take control.

As part of this, we are now new steps to support high streets and town to support high streets and town centres. That includes rolling out high street rental auctions, banning unfair upward only rent review clauses, and England and Wales supporting property owners to establish business improvement districts. Reforms to the districts. Reforms to the compulsory purchase process and land compensation rules to allow local authorities to shape their local authorities to shape their high streets, and opening a new co-operative development unit within MHCLG to help our within MHCLG to help our communities take greater control.

I will make progress and ownership of their high streets when the problems in our high streets so problems in our high streets so often stem from we know best attitude that we saw over 14 years with the last government. The with the last government. The answer must be about handing power to communities themselves. So the I will give way.

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will give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I would. Just like. To be able to emphasise the importance of that Pride in Place programme for places like mine in Ramsgate, where we have had an appalling. 24% vacancy rate in that in that high street. It is only because of the social and community energy in that community that has been able to turn that round. With the support of.

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The. Pride in Place programme already, that will help us to be able to turn those places round. Left are turn those places round. Left are left with the legacy of 14 years of Tory government, with 25% empty

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Tory government, with 25% empty shops in our in our high street. My hon. Friend is completely

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My hon. Friend is completely right. We feel that we are giving places, the tools that they need, the levers they need to turn round

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the levers they need to turn round the inheritance to turn round. I will give way. I am enormously grateful to the

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I am enormously grateful to the hon. Lady. She's making great pace through her speech, but I just want to bring her back to one single to bring her back to one single point. She's been making the case for all the other peripherals that they've been doing to try and help they've been doing to try and help high streets and various other things. Does she not understand very clearly? And I'd like her very clearly? And I'd like her opinion on this. Raising National Insurance on these small businesses and reducing the moment when they and reducing the moment when they have to pay has damaged their ability to take people on, and is really costing them in the way that really costing them in the way that many now close.

Does she not agree that that single single decision has done more damage to the high

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has done more damage to the high streets than anything else she talked about repairing? Yeah.

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I would say to the hon. Member is the thing that has done damage to the high street is the 14 years of neglect. I mean, the party opposite pretends that the high street was thriving for 14 years. The party opposite pretends that we did not see shops closing down, boarded shops. The decimation of our public realm under them. So candidly, candidly, we will take no advice from the party opposite because they categorically had 14 years to respond and 14 years in

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which they failed. So look. way. And does.

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And does. She agree with me. That it. Will be infuriating to many of my constituents to hear the right my constituents to hear the right hon. Gentleman describe some of the things that this Labour government is doing as peripheral, and that presumably includes the Growth presumably includes the Growth Mission Fund, which is making a multi-million pound investment in my high street in Kirkcaldy, left my high street in Kirkcaldy, left in a state of decline after 14 years of his party in government.



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years of his party in government. Thank you to my hon. Friend, and thank you for raising the point about this being peripheral. I was so incensed about it I forgot to so incensed about it I forgot to mention it. Look, this is absolutely fundamental and so and absolutely fundamental and so and so so absolutely fundamental to to to to responding to the challenges that we see in our high streets. And look, the key point. The key point, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I point, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I want people to take is we are acting.

So whether it is the pride of place, strategy and the of place, strategy and the programme, or whether it is the action that we are taking on business rates. So the hon. Member raised business rates. And look, from April 2026, eligible retail, hospitality and leisure properties hospitality and leisure properties with rateable values below 500,000 will benefit from permanently lower business rate multipliers. This will leave level the playing field between online retailers and high

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streets. It will be absolutely critical to supporting I will give way. I'm really grateful to the hon.

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I'm really grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. She talks a lot about footfall onto the high streets and I think we all would streets and I think we all would agree we need more footfall, benefits businesses. So with that in mind, what consideration has she in mind, what consideration has she given to regenerating our towns and city centres through building on brownfield sites and putting proper brownfield sites and putting proper housing targets in our city centres, rather than on the peripheries of

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the cities? Yes, Minister. Thank you, Madam President. The hon. Lady is completely right. We are absolutely doing that densification building. Look again, I come back to 14 years in which the party opposite failed on housing. 14 years. Remember when housing. 14 years. Remember when you were. Do they remember, Madam Deputy Speaker, when they removed those housing targets completely? So the idea that they're carping on us for actually making progress with our commitment to deliver 1.5 with our commitment to deliver 1.5 million is candidly for the bad.

So, look, we are clear we need thriving house streets, and that does house streets, and that does require mixed use. That does require having a range of things way.

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way. Minister is talking about the party opposite's record in damaging our high streets. And as I mentioned earlier, what that amounts to in Hastings is £150,000 the end, we absolutely need the investment in our communities. That is what we are doing on this side. And whether it is the work that we're doing to reduce business rates or the work that my colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade are doing to deliver the backing. Your business plan, a long term strategy, growing how we support SMEs and the everyday economy.

And as part of this, family run businesses on the high street will benefit from new tools to unlock, access to finance action to crack down on late payments, which we know is a massive issues for SMEs. Easier access to the business growth service and to combat retail crime. I will make progress which hon. Members have raised. We have scrapped the effective immunity for low value shoplifting and are taking action to protect retail workers from assault. This, alongside the Employment Rights Bill, which we on this side are proud of, will make retail a more desirable career choice, improving retention and make recruitment clearer.

We are very clear employment rights is good for workers, absolutely, but it is good for businesses and it is good for

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the economy. And finally, I will I will give way on that point. Giving way. And if. We return to.

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We return to. Her. Amendments, there's a bit of an oxymoron here because it says commits to cut administrative

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commits to cut administrative burden of regulation on businesses recognise. The.

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The. Employment rights Bill. So could she clarify. Is that cut. Of regulation by 25% before or

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after the. Employment rights. Bill comes in. And where. Does that 25% cut in regulation

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come from? Because we haven't heard that in all her. Measures she's talked about. I think it is incredibly telling

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I think it is incredibly telling that. The hon. Member thinks that protecting our workers, ensuring things like exploitative zero hours things like exploitative zero hours are banned, ensuring that we have sick pay is regulation. It is a fundamental part of the social fundamental part of the social contract and where the sort of economy that we are trying to create is one where the economy create is one where the economy does well, the everyday person does well, and that does require them to have basic rights and protections.

That is something that we are very That is something that we are very clear on and we are very proud of. And it's quite frankly tragic that the party opposite, after having 14 the party opposite, after having 14 years in which we saw huge exploitation of workers, 14 years in which they crashed, the economy, cannot see that. And look, the final thing I will reflect on, the final thing I will reflect on before making progress is on energy bills, which we understand businesses are under pressure with energy bills.

That is why we are driving forward with our Clean Power mission, because we are clear that the shift to renewables is the thing that will drive down bills. But alongside that, we are giving SMEs for the first time access to the Energy Ombudsman. We are strengthening their ability to renegotiate contracts, to blend and extend, and we're helping businesses reduce their use in order to reduce energy costs. I will give way.

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I appreciate her giving way. Does she understand the immediacy of the pressure on small businesses, and how it falls on them to listen to the Minister? I'm sure the best to the Minister? I'm sure the best of intentions, and I'm sure it will unwind in 5 or 10 years, that there will be eventually lower energy will be eventually lower energy bills for commercial enterprise across the United Kingdom. But it's not going to happen this week. It's not going to happen this week.

It's not going to happen this year or next, and many of them won't survive. What's our message to them

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survive. What's our message to them about this perpetual jam tomorrow? Culture? The powers to help. Them.

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Them. Madam Deputy Speaker, what I would say is we absolutely understand the pressure the business is under with energy. But business is under with energy. But what we would argue is that our dependence and our reliance on global fossil fuel markets, that is global fossil fuel markets, that is driving that, and ultimately we can do sticking plaster, we can do short term fixes. All we can deal short term fixes. All we can deal with that fundamental problem. And that is why we are pushing towards clean power, because ultimately that is the way that we drive down that is the way that we drive down bills.

And that is not that is not an offer for 10 or 20 years. It is an offer that we are committed to driving down pills in this Parliament, and we won't resile on that. Look, I will conclude, I will that. Look, I will conclude, I will conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, our high streets will always be at the heart of our communities. We absolutely agree about that on this side of this House. And we welcome that. There is cross-party support about that. But unless we grow the economy and put more money in people's pockets, they will never match the ambition of local people.

That is why our high streets are front and centre of our growth mission, and that is why we are absolutely committed to driving their renewal. And what I would leave everyone in this house with is let's remember the record and the legacy of the party opposite that are pretending to do this debate like they really care. Our high streets were decimated, shops were boarded, people in all of our

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communities saw the impact of their way. Minister Amanda Martin. I thank the Minister for giving

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I thank the Minister for giving way and a lot have been talked about hospitality in here and people saying about their first jobs and it being a great place. jobs and it being a great place. But under the last government, 7000 pubs were closed and last orders were called on those pubs. So do you agree, does the Minister agree with me that planning thriving high streets means that the Labour Party streets means that the Labour Party are the only people looking to make sure we pour more pints for our hard working people?

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My hon. Friend is completely right. 7000 pubs. There are statistics after statistics that statistics after statistics that speaks to the party opposite's failure. So rather than being smug, rather than pretending they're rather than pretending they're providing their fake solutions, they should be far more humble about the state they have left our about the state they have left our communities. And it is now on us. It is now on this Labour government to fix the mess that they left

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behind. The original question was as on the Order Paper, since when the Order Paper, since when amendment A has been proposed as on the Order Paper? The question is that the original word stand part that the original word stand part of the question. Before I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, can I make it clear that we will be on I make it clear that we will be on a six minute time limit from the first backbencher Sarah Olney March. Madam Deputy.

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Speaker. The current landscape is extremely challenging for high street businesses. I'm sure that street businesses. I'm sure that colleagues across the House have heard from countless local businesses in their constituencies, on their high streets and in the hearts of their communities about the challenges they face from the government's National Insurance government's National Insurance increase to sky high energy bills and uncertainty over what the Employment Rights Bill means for them. I wish, however, to them. I wish, however, to contextualise today's motion and the challenges of the business landscape.

After years of dire economic mismanagement by the last conservative government. On their watch, we saw energy costs soar and economic chaos unfold following economic chaos unfold following their mini budget, while business confidence fell in part due to the scrapping of the industrial scrapping of the industrial strategy and huge increases in trade barriers following their botched trade agreement with the EU.

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botched trade agreement with the EU. Here I'm grateful to the hon. Lady. Does she understand the immediacy of the problem facing companies in the high street? And companies in the high street? And she's raised the issue of energy costs, and she's quite right to do so. I just wondered why the Liberal so. I just wondered why the Liberal Democrat motion suggests that changes should be made to reduce those costs within a decade.

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those costs within a decade. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The Liberal Democrat plan aims to halve energy Democrat plan aims to halve energy bills within the decade by scrapping the link between gas and electricity prices. We've got a positive plan to make a real difference to energy prices for households and for businesses. But I do wonder whether the conservatives have really learned the lesson from the last government. I listened with interest when my honourable colleague for Mid Dorset and North Poole asked the shadow business secretary about how their plans for business rate cuts would impact local government finances, and he had nothing to say.

And I think this is this is to me an indicator that the conservatives have not yet learned the lessons of the mini budget and plan plan to repeat all of those errors again if they were ever to get back into government. However, many of the challenges that are now being faced by businesses are being compounded by decisions taken by this government from their damaging National Insurance rise to continued uncertainty over the way in which Ministers have approached the Employment Rights Bill. We are seeing a practically stagnant economy with business confidence down and unemployment up, and the government must act with more urgency to support our high streets, which are vital to our local economies, and provide the jobs that so many rely on.

I will give way to my Steff Aquarone.

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I thank her for giving way on the issue of support. Stalham, a beautiful market town in north Norfolk, is one of the places receiving support from the High Streets Task Force to revitalise its high Street and local businesses are getting enthusiastically involved. But to enthusiastically involved. But to support businesses to thrive, we have to equip them with the skills and expertise. Will she join me in and expertise. Will she join me in praising the work of my local councils in providing training for small businesses, and agree that we need more ways to upskill and need more ways to upskill and support business owners and managers so they can run the most successful businesses they can.



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successful businesses they can. I thank my hon. Friend who represents his constituents and their businesses in North Norfolk their businesses in North Norfolk so admirably. He is absolutely right on this issue about skills which hasn't been raised by either Conservative or Labour Benches yet, Conservative or Labour Benches yet, but is absolutely fundamental to powering the growth that we really need to see in our economy, the,
13:45
Sarah Olney Portrait Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)
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need to see in our economy, the, the, the support that our high streets need should not be done, cannot be done by cutting public expenditure, as the conservative motion calls for, but by taking bold action, implementing the industrial strategy with more urgency, addressing the workforce crisis and negotiating a new bespoke UK EU customs union to grow our economy. In 2019, the previous conservative government made a manifesto pledge to fundamentally review the business rates system and the Liberal Democrats agree we need to see a fundamental overhaul of this broken system.

But throughout their tenure, they failed to keep that promise to businesses and local communities. So we will continue to call on this government to re-imagine business rates, not just tinkering around the edges, but putting in place sticking plaster solutions, happy to give way.

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. When it comes to business rates, coastal communities like West Dorset are heavily reliant on hospitality for providing jobs over 6000 jobs providing jobs over 6000 jobs locally and vital to our tourism economy. The Georgian West Bay has economy. The Georgian West Bay has seen its business rates go from 8 to £27,000. That is basically it's any chance of making a profit in any chance of making a profit in the foreseeable future.

How can we talk about supporting hospitality, supporting tourism, supporting small businesses when they have to

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small businesses when they have to suffer those kind of costs? Yeah. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Of course, he's absolutely right. And businesses all across the country, including in my own constituency of Richmond in my own constituency of Richmond Park, have reported similar massive increases to their business rates bills. And this is something that the government urgently needs to

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the government urgently needs to get to grips with. Happy to give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I'd like to bring up the plight of hairdressers. One hairdresser in my constituency, Angel, the hairdresser in Thames Ditton, told me that this government is hitting small businesses with higher employer businesses with higher employer costs, rising business rates and wage hikes that are already squeezing very, very thin margins. They're not facing just one increase. It's a combination of high utility supply costs, wage rises, any hikes and business rates rises, any hikes and business rates all adding up.

And they are really struggling to survive.

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I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. And she's absolutely right. It's not just one thing. It's not just two things. It's a whole range of different costs that are being loaded onto businesses, one after the other, all at the one after the other, all at the same time, and during a time when the economy is very sluggish and it is extremely difficult for, for for

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growth. I will give. I just. Feel it's. The right moment here. I should

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The right moment here. I should just give my right hon. Friend has listed a number of factors, one which wouldn't cost the government which wouldn't cost the government very much money at all. To help to put right is the lack of a workforce in areas like mine. workforce in areas like mine. You've got 60 odd percent, 53% of all the hospitality and tourism businesses in my community are operating below capacity because operating below capacity because they can't find enough staff. There is room, surely, in town centres to help flexibility with planning law help flexibility with planning law to create more affordable housing in those town centres, create a workforce and then create a

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workforce and then create a footfall also to create demand for those businesses. I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He's absolutely right. intervention. He's absolutely right. We are talking today about high streets. But there is a there is a much wider issue across the entire economy about workforce. And if we can get some of the solutions to some of these things working, they some of these things working, they will have a knock on impact and we will see many, many more sectors see a boost to their economic prospects.

But the the issue about business rates that so many of my colleagues have raised, the current government pledged in their manifesto to replace the business rates system, but still no meaningful action has been taken, as were nearly 18 months into this government. I've wished to ask if they plan to keep their word on this commitment.

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To business rates. Yes, Al Pinkerton. I'm grateful to my hon. Friend

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I'm grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way four times. In such quick. Succession in my in my borough of Surrey Heath, of the £40 million of business rates levied this year by Surrey Heath Borough Council.

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by Surrey Heath Borough Council. Only £1 million of that is being retained locally. Given that borough councils levy business borough councils levy business rates and businesses have an expectation that that money is retained locally. Does my hon. retained locally. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that it's absolutely vital that that money does get put back into the local economy to improve infrastructure, economy to improve infrastructure, to improve the sense of place? And if that can't be done, that perhaps business rates should be scrapped altogether and replaced with a more

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altogether and replaced with a more just way of raising. Funds only. I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and his local high street and Camberley. Very close to my heart. It was where my first job my heart. It was where my first job was in, in w h Smith some years ago now. And but he's absolutely right about about business rates. And I repeat my my question to the government, please what action are government, please what action are you going to be taking on business rates.

Sorry what action are they rates. Sorry what action are they going to take. If she says what action are you going to take? That's me. I'm not. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, I apologise. What action are they? Are you going to take? While the last government did so much damage our high street businesses, the Labour government's National Insurance job tax has only made things harder for them and for the workers. And the Liberal Democrats have voted against this change to employer National Insurance contributions at every opportunity.

And I once again urge the government to scrap these measures. The changes to employer National Insurance contributions announced in the last budget are an unfair and deeply damaging tax measure that is hitting small businesses of all kinds social care providers, GPS and the lack of sector consultation and business foresight prior to these changes has been hugely damaging on business confidence, and the government's handling of the Employment Rights Bill seems to have only compounded this uncertainty. So much of the detail that was expected in this bill has been left to secondary legislation or future consultation, making it impossible for businesses to plan ahead with certainty.

And a lack of clarity on probation periods risks piling undue worry onto business managers who are struggling to find the right skills in the first place. As many of my colleagues have have given evidence for happy to give way.

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I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. It's a friendly intervention. She will be, as I know, is a is a She will be, as I know, is a is a pro-European. Is she pleased that Ikea, a brilliant Swedish company that invests heavily in this country and has a fantastic business model, is pro the Employment rights bill? And will she push her colleagues in the Lords to get this through and actually get this into the statutory book? Sarah Olney.

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statutory book? Sarah Olney. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. There are many parts of the Employment Rights Bill that we are happy to support. that we are happy to support. However, there are some, some, some. However, there are some, some, some. However, there are some bits, dare I say some bits missing. Perhaps that mean it doesn't add up to can't put it all together as a I don't know where I'm going with don't know where I'm going with that.

Sorry. Training, hiring and retaining a skilled workforce are issues affecting businesses across the country. The apprenticeship levy doesn't work and many businesses can't get the funding businesses can't get the funding they need to train staff. While hundreds of millions in funding goes unspent. The Liberal Democrats have been calling for the apprenticeship levy to be replaced with a wider skills and training levy, which would give businesses flexibility over how they spend their money to train their staff. We therefore welcome the government's intention to reform the levy and refocus it towards growth and skills, but we need to see faster progress and skills.

England made into a properly independent body with employers at its heart. However, we have concerns regarding moving the funding away from level seven apprenticeships as we know that this initiative increases social mobility and I will continue to ask the Minister if they will accelerate the announcement of the details of this new scheme, outlining exactly which training will be eligible, so that businesses can plan with certainty and develop the workforce we need. And perhaps the most obvious issue that has impacted our high streets over recent years is the last government's botched Brexit trade deal.

Many business owners have highlighted the reams of red tape and trading forms that they must navigate to import goods from Europe or export them to the continent. This is valuable time, taken away from the productive tasks involved in running a business, and government policy has simply made life for managers far more difficult. Meanwhile, unemployment has gone up and a range of sectors are facing acute labour shortages. As my hon. Friend for Westmorland and Lonsdale has highlighted on many occasions in this place, many high vacancies are concentrated in high street sectors such as hospitality, retail, the arts and entertainment.

And those are exactly the kinds of industries that young people visiting the UK for a few years might wish to work in. A youth mobility scheme would offer British businesses a real opportunity to address staffing shortages by welcoming young people from the EU countries for a limited period, bringing fresh talent and energy to our workforce. And so I ask the government to set out a timeline of when their announced youth scheme will be introduced. However, the Liberal Democrats welcome the motion's call to increase support for high business energy bills, and I urge the government to act with more urgency in addressing energy costs for businesses, including by accelerating the launch of the Industrial Competitiveness Scheme, the consultation for which is not even due to be launched until the end of the year, and Liberal Democrats will continue to push the government to look closely at our proposals to break the link between gas and electricity prices, half halving household bills within a decade and significantly cutting energy costs over the same period.

Throughout that same period. One more time.

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I'd be fascinated to hear from the hon. Lady precisely how the market in energy can separate gas market in energy can separate gas from electricity prices, and if she's got a plan to do so, it'd be lovely to hear from them. I'd like

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lovely to hear from them. I'd like to Sarah Olney. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The point is, by his intervention. The point is, by by breaking the link between gas and energy, electricity doesn't need to be sold out at the at the need to be sold out at the at the same, at the same rate as wholesale gas. And that it's what we are advocating for is a change to the advocating for is a change to the way the market operates.

And that deserves serious consideration because currently the current because currently the current market, the current way it's it's managed, is resulting in enormous managed, is resulting in enormous energy bills for both businesses and households. Our party agrees that more must be done to tackle that more must be done to tackle retail crime. Shoplifting not only causes shops to lose out on sales, of which costs are then passed on to paying customers. But it also to paying customers. But it also means that staff members, often young people, are met with a possible threat of violence.

possible threat of violence. Shoplifting has risen by a staggering 48% in England and Wales over the past five years, and by an even more horrifying 104% in London. even more horrifying 104% in London. And every time I meet with an owner of a local store, I'm told that shoplifting has become effectively decriminalised as thieves don't feel the threat of reprisal. And there's the impact on prices. The government talks about bringing down inflation, one measure that can be taken to reduce the cost of everyday goods is to tackle the rise in shoplifting.

It's incredibly frustrating to me. The government has not connected the dots between an increased fear of crime and the stripping back of our police force's ability to do their jobs. As is so often the case, shop owners are told by the police it is not a cost effective use of their resources to follow up on relatively minor thefts, however, to every local business and paying customer, it is, and I urge the government to recognise the detrimental impact that shoplifting has having in our society and to take this issue seriously.

The Liberal Democrats acknowledge that the government inherited a dire economic landscape from the Conservative Party. However, 18 months into government, I don't believe that businesses feel that life has been made easier for them. Small businesses are struggling with the cost of doing business. They're finding it hard to plan around parts of the employment rights bill, and they're struggling under the burden of sky high energy bills and the employers National insurance contributions rise. So

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the happily, I'm grateful for the honourable. Lady for giving way. I'm just interested in, for example, her acknowledging.

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example, her acknowledging. That we have made some specific. Progress in dealing with the Brexit deal. Left as part of the legacy of the previous Tory government, which she may indeed welcome. For example, our SPS deal, which has included our SPS deal, which has included being able to boost exports by slashing red tape and bureaucracy specifically for our farmers and for our food producers, lower food for our food producers, lower food prices at the checkout and indeed our cooperation on energy which our cooperation on energy which which the honourable hon.

Ladies and gentlemen opposite may, may transfer from a sedentary position, but is actually really important

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but is actually really important when you look at how we needed to order, the hon. Lady. Will. Know that.

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Know that. Interventions need to be short, not. Read off phones. Sarah Olney. Thank you very much, Madam

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am of course, delighted that we are making some small progress towards a better relationship with Europe. I welcome relationship with Europe. I welcome that wholeheartedly. However, we could go a lot further. The Liberal Democrats have been pushing for a Democrats have been pushing for a UK EU customs union and that would unlock, you know, many, many more times more benefits. But the the times more benefits. But the the Labour government are very reticent, although I do welcome some of the noises, both from the Treasury noises, both from the Treasury frontbench and from many other backbenchers who are.

And I found it astonishing, actually, the number of Labour MPs I've encountered over the last couple of weeks who are suddenly desperate to tell me how very pro-European they've always been, which I'm very pleased to hear. But I would say I haven't always heard that from the

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Labour benches. But all progress in this in this area is welcome. I'm very grateful.

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I'm very grateful. For what she has to say. One of the. More. Useful things the Liberal. Democrats have done. In the past.

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In the past. Is to support the Future. High Streets. government. But she hasn't.

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Mentioned it and neither did. The Minister, which. Is surprising. Since nearly £10 million. Of future high street.

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Of future high street. Funding was given. To the Old. Kent Road. In Peckham in her constituency. But she didn't mention that, and

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But she didn't mention that, and a large sum of money. Was given to. Trowbridge, the county. Town of Wiltshire. To good effect. But what does she.

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But what does she. Think of the fact. That the future High Street Fund has been ditched and replaced by something

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ditched and replaced by something called Pride in Place, which is a pale reflection of. The. Future High Street Fund? And would she like to think about

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including that in her contribution? Well, I'm very grateful to take advice from the hon. Gentleman as to what I should and shouldn't to what I should and shouldn't include in my speech. What I would say is it's always targeted pots of money for individual places, and what we've always advocated is a what we've always advocated is a much more wide ranging set of policies that would that would policies that would that would support all high streets, wherever they are in the country.

The government must take bold action to boost our economy. We urge Ministers to scrap the National Insurance Jobs Tax Act with far more urgency on implementing the industrial strategy, cutting energy bills and strengthening our workforce. And we call for bolder, more ambitious and fairer measures to replace business rates with a fair new system that can boost high streets and town centres, to negotiate a new customs union with the EU, which would cut red tape for small businesses and supercharge our economy as a whole.



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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Kevin Bonavia. Thank you, Madam Deputy. Speaker. This motion.
14:00
Kevin Bonavia Portrait Kevin Bonavia MP (Stevenage, Labour)
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This motion. Is a masterclass in political gaslighting. It claims to support.

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High streets but proposes. Slashing public investment, scrapping workers rights and

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scrapping workers rights and deregulating the very protections that keep our communities safe. It's not really a motion. It's a demolition.

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It's a demolition. our. Town centres.

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Town centres. Neglect, not regulation. Is the. Real threat to our high streets. Under the.

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Under the. Last Tory government. Shoplifting rose by. 71%.

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71%. Street theft increased by 59%, violence against Shopworkers hit

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2000 incidents per day. This is the legacy of the party. Opposite a record of abandonment

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Opposite a record of abandonment and inaction. The conservatives let crime spiral and neighbourhood

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crime spiral and neighbourhood policing collapse, and this. Labour. Government is reversing that. Damage through the.

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Damage through the. Summer. Through the Safer Streets. Summer initiative. Over 500 towns, including my

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Over 500 towns, including my surge. In visible policing. Targeted enforcement against.

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Shoplifting and and. And anti-social behaviour. And bespoke local action. Plans to.

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Plans to. Tackle violence against shop workers. This is not. A short.

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Term stunt. It is the first wave of Labour's neighbourhood policing

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of Labour's neighbourhood policing guarantee. It has been backed by. £200 million of investment this year alone. This government will.

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This government will. Deliver 13,000 new officers and PCSOs by the end of this parliament. PCSOs by the end of this parliament. £5 billion for that Pride in Place programme, giving communities the power to reclaim boarded up shops, power to reclaim boarded up shops, save their derelict pubs, derelict pubs and block unwanted gambling and vape outlets. This means boots on the ground, not empty promises, restoring safety and confidence to our high streets. This motion. Madam Deputy Speaker offers slogans about energy bills and it is.

But it is Labour that offers systemic

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it is Labour that offers systemic reform. We are reforming the energy. Market to make it. Fairer, more transparent for businesses. We are accelerating clean Home-grown.

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clean Home-grown. Energy. To reduce long term costs and dependence on volatile fossil fuel

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markets. We're not. Capping. Chaos, we're ending it. Madam

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Deputy Speaker. The side opposite have been attacking the. Employment Rights Bill, a.

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Employment Rights Bill, a. Bill that bans fire and rehire practices that exploit workers so much under the last government, introduces bereavement leave for grieving parents after pregnancy loss. It ends non-disclosure agreements that silence victims of lifts.

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lifts. Standards for thousands. work. They call it red tape.

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They call it red tape. I call it basic decency. Yes, it

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rewards decent employers. By punishing the bad behaviour of others. of others.

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Then they Protecting post offices when the Protecting post offices when the candidate in a local by election in the Roebuck ward of Stevenage was out scaremongering my constituents out scaremongering my constituents by sending out leaflets falsely insinuating that the local post insinuating that the local post office was closing. I had this checked with the post office. There was no threat, no closure, but this was part of a national campaign by the conservatives saying your local post office is being closed with no evidence behind it.

It's merely a cynical attempt to misleading,

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misleading voters. Happy to take up on that point. The hon. Gentleman the previous conservative government had a national guarantee of 11,500 post offices, and this Labour frontbench offices, and this Labour frontbench has put that under review. That does mean that there is a threat to does mean that there is a threat to post offices across this country. That was highlighted specific. If anyone has gone further than that anyone has gone further than that about a specific post office, obviously that would be wrong.

But the truth is there is a threat to the truth is there is a threat to the Post Office Network and it's one instituted by his frontbench. Can he at least acknowledge that? Kevin Bonavia.

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Kevin Bonavia. I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. The point is, is as politicians, we have a duty to politicians, we have a duty to explain facts and base it on evidence. That was not done in this evidence. That was not done in this case. And I put it to all politicians and would be politicians to base their arguments politicians to base their arguments on facts. Madam Deputy Speaker, this motion is a Trojan horse. It this motion is a Trojan horse.

It dresses up deregulation as a gift to our constituents while gutting the very foundations of our high streets. Fairness and community streets. Fairness and community power. If we accept the premise of this Tory motion, we are no better than a modern day Troy. Labour is rebuilding what the conservatives hollowed out of our communities. Safety, fairness, opportunity and, dare I say it, pride. We are putting power back in the hands of local people. Bobbies back on the beat and dignity back in the workplace.

Because our high streets don't need hollow gestures. They need real change. And only this

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Labour government is delivering it. Happy to. Lizzi Collinge for giving way. What he is saying is really What he is saying is really resonating with me. And would you agree with me that the Pride in Place funding, because it goes over Place funding, because it goes over ten years, allows us to be really strategic about the regeneration of our high streets and allows us in steps instead of bits and bits of steps instead of bits and bits of money, going for six months with really, really tight frameworks allows local people the power to

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allows local people the power to regenerate their own area. I thank my hon. Friend for intervention. She is spot on. It's intervention. She is spot on. It's actually getting our local communities involved. They know their high street's best and we their high street's best and we should work with them to to use that money for long term strategic that money for long term strategic decisions. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I oppose this motion today. It is I oppose this motion today.

It is illiterate. It has no answers for our future. It does not add up to our future. It does not add up to an economically. And it ignores the good work that this government is

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good work that this government is already doing for our high streets. Tom Tugendhat. Madam Deputy Speaker I was

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Madam Deputy Speaker I was somewhat entertained there by the last lines about them being the new Trojans, which I suppose makes us, the Greeks, might be worth remembering. The Greeks won the war and the current Greek government is generating employment while this government is cutting it. It might also be worth remembering that while we're telling stories, there are some really rather good books out there, none of them written by the Treasury team. It's true. But there was a rather good one that came out only recently on prosperity for growth, which was written not only by Doctor Laffer,
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Tom Tugendhat Portrait Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)
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whose name came up earlier from My hon. Friend, but also by two members of the Other place, the members of the Other place, the Lord Eliot of Mickle Fell, I think, and Lord Hintze. I declare an and Lord Hintze. I declare an interest on Lord Eliot, as his daughter is my goddaughter. But the it is still a good book, despite the fact that there is a connection the fact that there is a connection there, because what it sets out is the principle that we all know.

And by the way, that has been known for hundreds of years that taxation deters investment, lack of deters investment, lack of investment deters growth, and lack of growth deters future opportunity to look after all of us, including to look after all of us, including in particular, the poorest. And what we're seeing on the high what we're seeing on the high streets is actually a reflection of that tax policy, because what we're seeing on the high streets today is seeing on the high streets today is we're seeing the increasing ratchet of control controls for regulation, control through taxation, control through any number of different through any number of different tools that this government has put on.

Now, in wonderful towns like on. Now, in wonderful towns like Tonbridge and Edenbridge and Borough Green. And I'm sure, Madam Deputy Speaker, you could add a few Deputy Speaker, you could add a few of your own, it would be worth saying that Portsmouth South and other places. I've got that completely wrong, haven't I, with the hon. Lady.

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As a point of information, I think it would help the hon. Member. Romsey and Southampton North.

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Romsey and Southampton North. And there's. This will explain why I was never welcome in the Navy. why I was never welcome in the Navy. Anyway, the the the the hon. Lady will know that there are many, many will know that there are many, many other high streets that are like Romsey and Southampton doing well Romsey and Southampton doing well despite despite the policies that we're seeing out of this government. But we are seeing a series of changes that are costing us all, and I think it's worth focusing on and I think it's worth focusing on a few of them.

The first is on retail, hospitality and leisure properties, which we're now seeing properties, which we're now seeing the rate relief reduced to 40% and only up to a cash limit of £110,000 only up to a cash limit of £110,000 per business. Now, why is this happening? Well, this is basically just another tax grab. It's just just another tax grab. It's just another attempt to make sure that those who are working hard to put food on their tables and, by the food on their tables and, by the way, to put food on the tables of everybody else in this country by generating that employment.

I'll just finish the point, if I may, just finish the point, if I may, but why? Well, they are working hard to do that. This government is hard to do that. This government is trying to squeeze them. Now, I understand why, because they've got themselves into a level of debt that is genuinely extraordinary, and they're piling it on even more and quickly than anybody. I'm just finishing my point, if I may. They are piling it on even more quickly than any other administration for a long time, with the exception of Covid, which I know members will agree they wanted to spend more on.

Even still, what we're seeing is we're seeing that squeeze hurting more and more. Now, I know of independent retailers in Tunbridge and Edenbridge who've seen, because of that, 300% increases in business rates as a result of this. And it's simply not sustainable because what we're talking about is we're talking about taking money off businesses before they're able to pay those who are working there 24 over seven, those who own it. We're seeing that squeeze, that pain, that charge being put on individuals who are getting up early, who are trying to do their absolute damnedest to make sure that they can keep the business going.

But it's completely absurd, and it's absurd because actually, the £110,000 valuation is, in fact artificial, because business rates are set by the valuation agency, Valuation Office Agency. Forgive me, and there is no input for local businesses. There's no way for these decisions to be challenged and there's no real accountability. So what we're seeing, I'm afraid, is we're seeing a government agency setting a valuation that allows the taxation to rise with no possibility of appeal. Now, this is simply no way to run an economy, because what we're seeing is we're seeing ever increasing centralisation.

Now, the correct thing to do, the correct thing to do, would not only be to allow businesses to keep some of the money that they're making in order to reinvest in themselves and invest in staff, but actually to allow councils to have some say, because if we believe in democracy, if we believe in individuals having the ability to shape their future, then surely we must extend that right to them to control how towns, how villages, how communities across our country are actually able to tax themselves.

Now, sadly, that's not what we're seeing. And so, Madam Deputy Speaker, we're seeing what we used to describe as a nation of shopkeepers, that nation that defeated tyranny in Europe not once, but many times becoming a nation of bookkeepers,

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bookkeepers, all taxed by the state. I'll give way. Gentleman, for giving way. I'm

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Gentleman, for giving way. I'm glad he got to the point. Kind of. He was speaking about about hospitality workers and I was hospitality worker for for very many years. So I know how hard work many years. So I know how hard work it is. And I also know about the people who will benefit on the shop floor from the government's employment rights Bill. So perhaps employment rights Bill. So perhaps the hon. Gentleman could tell me a bit more about how regulation is supposedly harming workers, because supposedly harming workers, because from my point of view, as as a former hospitality worker, I see the benefits of that employment

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the benefits of that employment colleagues. So I'd be delighted, because actually, you can draw direct Madam Deputy Speaker you can draw a direct comparison with other countries that have extended these same rules. What they do is they protect the workers who are in the job. That is absolutely true. But they dissuade anybody else from joining. They dissuade new hires. joining. They dissuade new hires. So what you see is what you see exactly in the UK today. You see growing youth unemployment. And that's exactly what you're seeing in the in the United Kingdom.

Because when you have a punishment on a burden, sorry, on a business on a burden, sorry, on a business that makes it harder for them to change their employment structure, they simply delay employment. That's all that happens.

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That's all that happens. I thank him for his generosity in giving way. I really do, because I'm finding this this debate very interesting. Madam Deputy Speaker, in the rural areas of my constituency, what we're actually finding is businesses who are really struggling to hire workers, not because of the cost, but because local workers can't afford to live in those areas because they don't have affordable housing. And so would you agree with me that it's very welcome that the government is focusing on the practical basis of what ordinary workers need to be employed, and

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that will help rural businesses like mine that are really struggling to recruit. So forgive me, but I don't agree

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So forgive me, but I don't agree because although I can see the transport connections and why the £2 bus link was so important now of bus link was so important now of course gone up by 50% under this government was absolutely crucial to helping small businesses survive in rural areas. What we're now in rural areas. What we're now seeing is we're seeing businesses that were taking in younger people. Starters effectively are not hiring those starters because the cost of any change that may be needed in a any change that may be needed in a business that may evolve or may shape itself differently means that effectively, it's not worth the risk.

Now we see this again and risk. Now we see this again and again. The tragedy of this actually is I'm not telling this house anything new. The tragedy is this speech could have been given any time in the last 50 years, because the reality is we've tried all these experiments. We know how they these experiments. We know how they work. They end up with rising unemployment, with rising debt burdens and fewer public services. burdens and fewer public services. We know where this goes. I'll give way to the honourable.

To my right hon. Friend, the main point in.

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hon. Friend, the main point in. All of this, though, is when the government imposed a National insurance increase on the businesses, there was the real problem. The second bit is, however, problem. The second bit is, however, what they've done for those they might have taken on new first starters by lowering that threshold. starters by lowering that threshold. That has been an absolute killer on both counts for them. There's a reason why they're not taking them on at the moment.

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My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The reality is what this government has done, and I understand it. They've decided to I understand it. They've decided to defend the established strength of unionised and employed workers, I unionised and employed workers, I get it, but they've chosen specifically to punish incoming workers, young people and those who are trying to enter the labour are trying to enter the labour market. Now, that's a choice. It's a choice they've made. They've also chosen to defend established businesses, those businesses that can pay a large amount for HR functions, rather than those smaller businesses that innovate and start up.

Now again, that's a choice. That's a choice that they've made. But let's not ignore the choice. The choice is they have the choice. The choice is they have chosen the large company, the institution, the established worker, and they've decided to punish the high street.

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high street. Before I call the next speaker, I am going to reduce the time limit

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to five minutes from after Jim McMahon. Thank you, Madam Speaker, that

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Thank you, Madam Speaker, that Oldham has always been a town of hard work and heart. It's a place that has been built, rebuilt, that has been built, rebuilt, reinvented time and time again. And it's doing that today. But let's be honest, there's challenges that are honest, there's challenges that are facing Oldham and Royton and towns like it up and down the country are like it up and down the country are significant. It's been interesting hearing the debate today, and I think what we can all reflect on is,
14:17
Jim McMahon Portrait Jim McMahon MP (Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton, Labour )
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first of all, as parliamentarians, just how much we care about the places where we live and represent. places where we live and represent. And that should be lauded, but also, frankly, an honesty that much more should have been done in the past and was and much more needs to be and was and much more needs to be done now than perhaps is. And so the record of pace has to be improved. And I should say, I've improved. And I should say, I've got every faith in the government and the Minister on the frontbench to do just that, because we do understand the power of place and understand the power of place and the importance of place, and how our high streets and our town centres, for many people, are the centres, for many people, are the barometer of whether the country itself is doing well or not.

Now, when I look at Chatterton, I see a fantastic place, a stable community, and one that has terrific community and one that has terrific community pride. But it is a town without a single bank branch. It's seen very single bank branch. It's seen very little new development, and actually quite a lot of the land that is ripe for development is held in private ownership by distant landowners who have no stake in the local community. In stake in the local community. In Royton, again a thriving town just a couple of miles away.

Not a single bank left on that town single bank left on that town centre or the precinct. Yet there are shoots of growth there. The council investing in Royton Town council investing in Royton Town Hall, new independent bars and restaurants, bringing life back into that local centre and still a thriving local market on a Thursday, which does show that when we support local businesses, the community does respond with footfall and that local support. And I think, by the way, too often we maybe take for granted and underestimate the importance of our local markets, whether they're our indoor markets or outdoor markets as well.

And then of course, Oldham itself, our borough's heart, once home to a magistrates court and a county court and many public sector agencies that have either reduced or closed all together. And those big anchor stores like Debenhams, like like HMV and Woolworths and H&M and Thorntons and W.H. Mr. Clinton's that were the anchors of that town centre and the shopping centre of something of the past now, unfortunately, and not the future. But across the country there are 20,000 fewer shops open today than there was in 2010, and each closure is more than just a loss of business.

It's a small part of the town taken away their jobs, their livelihoods. And also it's the story of a place and people's memories too. And we've heard that in the debate here today. Now, take into account as well that across the country we're seeing 6000 banks closed. And for my own town, that's RBS and Barclays. But we do hold banks still. And it's really important that the government, of course, in the strategies to invest in the planning reforms that are taking place on community Britain and giving power to communities in the place where people live, that we don't allow a free for all in the way that we've seen in the previous government, where banks are there to the government's door when they need a bailout, when times are bad, but they walk away from our communities when that should be repaid back into the

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place where people have invested. Of course. The point that he makes about

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The point that he makes about bank closures is a good one. And will he agree with me that it's a welcome innovation that we've seen since 2022, which is banking hubs, and we've now got over 101 hundred, and we've now got over 101 hundred, I think 150 as of April this year around the country. And they can really be a lifeline for many really be a lifeline for many communities. And will he agree with me, though, that some of the criteria applied by Cash Access UK criteria applied by Cash Access UK to Grant Bank bank can be quite narrow.

And I say this really for the Minister's benefit, that would the Minister's benefit, that would he join me in urging the government to reconsider and review some of these narrow criteria in

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Portchester? We're campaigning for a broader Jim McMahon. I will and I should say it's a

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I will and I should say it's a point of the right hon. Lady mentioned a few times, and I think it is legitimate that if the criteria doesn't work for a town criteria doesn't work for a town like hers or a town like mine in Royton or Chadderton, then it's a criteria that's a problem, not the criteria that's a problem, not the town's. And those communities that need those banks. So I think we can agree on that. But in my own town of Oldham there is progress.

And I think sometimes we rush to a think sometimes we rush to a deficit model of talking down our places of it too quickly. But the old town hall, built in 1841, left derelict for decades, is now reborn as a cinema with the Egyptian Room, the grand Egyptian room that once was a banking hall where people paid their council tax. It's a lot more popular today than it was when it was used for that purpose, I can guarantee, but now restored back to life.

Or the old gallery built in 1883, long, empty again. But it's now home to the new Council Chambers and the inspiring Oldham Theatre Workshop, where 600 young people every single week go through those doors to celebrate in the arts and culture, and the Spindle Shopping Centre, now being transformed with a new indoor market and event space, and the local studies archive showing that when we invest in our towns, the community can see the benefit. And of course, as I mentioned before, using those derelict brownfield sites to build housing for local people, and in Oldham town centre, that will mean up to 2000 new homes in the town centre on brownfield sites, so that people, of course, have footfall in the town but also a decent, safe and affordable place to live to.

And of course, let's not forget, as much as we talk about the household names that have been lost, many of our towns are actually built on local people, independent traders who give something of themselves, sometimes their life savings to invest in the towns, and those should be celebrated to. But it's not easy. We have seen the shift to online retail is now accounting for 25% of retail sales, and the efforts through the business rate changes will rebalance the online and the on street in favour of local independent traders to and convenience stores, I should say as well.

And also the changing dynamic, I suppose, of out-of-town retail and also city centres. So where we are, we have a benefit of being on Manchester's doorstep, but that does also mean it's very easy for all the people to travel to Manchester. And I do think for towns, large towns, we've seen a separation where the hyper local is becoming more popular. So our district centres like Royton are thriving actually, where people want to create somewhere to go to and our cities are thriving, but the towns are struggling somewhere in the middle and we need a strategy for our towns, as well as that kind of wider investment to and also for the planning system.

Honestly, I am sick to death of seeing low quality, substandard accommodation being built in my town where the free for all under the previous government meant that office accommodation could be converted in a blink and offer HMOs where the concentration of social pressures in town centres and district centres is having a real impact on community safety and on that local housing market. But there is a different way through Community Britain. There is a way of rebuilding our towns, rebuilding civic pride and confidence, where through cooperation, we can give power to people in the places where they live and where they care about.

This is ending the top down model of command and control and telling people what they need for their area. And this is about giving money to commuters so they can decide for themselves, collectively

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co-producing the solutions to their place. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Every MP in this place thinks they've got the best constituency in the United Kingdom.

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in the United Kingdom. Yes, but I'm right. But I'm afraid. Only one of us could possibly be correct, with perhaps an exception
14:23
Jack Rankin Portrait Jack Rankin MP (Windsor, Conservative)
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correct, with perhaps an exception for Romsey and Southampton North. It must be the beautiful towns and villages of the Windsor constituency, as well as our green spaces. Whether that's the great park which has been in the news slightly more than we might like of late, whether that's our heritage. We also have our high streets, our small businesses, our hospitality, crown jewels, whether that's Ascot Racecourse, Royal Windsor Racecourse, Legoland to the smaller attractions like the Windsor Museum, French Brothers boat trips along the Thames or Windsor carriages.

Because of its exceptional features, the Windsor constituency. We also have some of the greatest high streets anywhere in the country. Our hospitality businesses turn over £600 million every year, one of the highest outside of London, and it's an industry that employs over 10,000 people locally. A huge part of this is tourism. People come from all over the world to walk through our town and enjoy refreshments. After exploring Windsor Castle or working up a thirst on the long walk. The most recent statistics from the excellent Visit Windsor team highlight that 12.2% of the population are employed as a result of tourism in the borough.

It's no surprise that 1 in 10 people in Windsor rely on this industry to make a living. There's a whole ecosystem. Madam Deputy Speaker of retail, hospitality, hotels that make up the economic background of my town. All of this stimulates these brilliant high streets and venues that make up our towns and villages. And they're the subject of today's debate. And all of them, I'm afraid to say, are feeling the pinch under this Labour government. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, my constituency goes well beyond its namesake town, as was evidenced in my most recent pub Best Pub competition.

We had over 32 different pubs put forward across the constituency and hundreds of my constituents voted. I feel it's only right to give special mention to the winner, the Swan in Clewer Village, which is a great example of the community led pub. I won't have time to talk about everything that makes the Swan special, but they have a school for special needs pupils, the Green Room. They have the Windsor Cycle Hub. They have chatter and natter to tackle loneliness and social isolation, as well as board games, the Stitch Gang for knitters and a dog walkers group.

But having met the landlord multiple times, Mickey and Andrew, he stressed that whilst the swan is well loved and used by the whole community, they are feeling all the pressures of our treasured pub industry, including increased fat costs, beer duty, business rates and now the Extended Producer responsibility tax. I'm sure we all have been guilty of complaining about the cost of a pint, but we must also recognise the huge overheads facing our pubs just to keep their doors open, paying their staff, soaring electricity prices, alcohol duties, the increase in National Insurance brought in last year's budget compounded all these pressures, hitting hospitality sector hard.

The sector has suffered more than half of all the British job losses since the last budget. Almost 85,000. In my view, pubs like The Swan provide a public service, bringing people together and letting neighbours check in on one another, hosting events and a place to hash out ideas or discuss the politics of the day. On all my visits to pubs, hospitality and other high street businesses, I hear they are struggling and Windsor is a relatively prosperous place with a clear USP Madam Deputy Speaker.

So I'm sure they will be struggling everywhere. It should come as no surprise increasing minimum wage, National insurance and bringing in the so-called new workers rights. All of these are incompatible with thriving high streets and any aspiration of

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bringing down. I will give way. I thank you for giving me, in

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I thank you for giving me, in his talking very passionately and making very many points I agree with, but which of his constituency with, but which of his constituency is he going to tell? They're not going to get that rise in minimum going to get that rise in minimum wage. Is he going to tell his constituency he opposes them getting that rise in minimum wage?

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getting that rise in minimum wage? Made by my right hon. Friend for Tonbridge that indeed there are people who benefit from minimum wage and new rights, but there are thousands of jobs that will never exist as a result of these measures. And that's what we have to be And that's what we have to be cognisant of in this House. All of these measures are incompatible with a thriving high street, and with a thriving high street, and any aspiration of bringing down welfare spending as that all jobs killers.

I will give way.

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killers. I will give way. For giving way, because we should be mindful of the fact that the last Labour government and they the last Labour government and they didn't mean any ill, increased youth unemployment by 45%. That is the worst time in life. It has a long term scarring, negative effect on people's whole outcomes and opportunities. And that's what this opportunities. And that's what this government is doing, again, in the name of protecting workers. The people who are on the outside are

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people who are on the outside are the ones who pay the price. My right hon. Friend is right. As always, the best way we back workers in this country is back. Our small businesses and our hospitality businesses in particular, which provide so many

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jobs to our constituents. Yes. the Member for giving way. Would

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the Member for giving way. Would he agree with me that nearly 100,000 jobs have been lost in hospitality since the last budget? If that if that number of jobs had been lost in something like the steel industry or a car plant, it would have been front page news day would have been front page news day after day after day for weeks on end. And yet almost nothing is said because those jobs have dispersed because those jobs have dispersed right across the country.

So they're almost invisible. But actually it's an enormous number of jobs that have been lost.

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jobs that have been lost. With that. And I think it's it goes beyond just that, because a lot of these hospitality jobs are lot of these hospitality jobs are the first jobs that people do. And we talk about youth unemployment in this country. If we don't get this country. If we don't get people into the pattern of earning a living and those softer skills of serving customers, getting up on serving customers, getting up on time, you know, as we all know, is so important in young development, not only do we have a problem in the in the instance now, but I think we have a problem into the future as well.

Just in my closing future as well. Just in my closing point, Madam Deputy Speaker, on high streets, what is it that my landlords. What is it that my hotel landlords. What is it that my hotel managers what is it? My businesses on the high street tell me the biggest thing that they have as a problem with its business rates. problem with its business rates. And that's why I welcome my party's own commitment in this regard, in particular, that decision to permanently scrap business rates for all retail, leisure and hospitality businesses up to £110,000 cap.

I'm afraid I don't have the time to do that. I don't, I'm afraid that's 250,000 businesses lifted out of business rates altogether and providing essential relief to keep businesses afloat and money flowing through the local economy fully costed. Backed by our new Golden Economic

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Rule. I commend this motion to the House. Lee Pitcher.

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Lee Pitcher. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Our high streets are the heart of our communities. They are where people meet, where local pride grows and where livelihoods are grows and where livelihoods are made. High streets have certainly struggled over the last decade, with vacant properties, anti-social behaviour and concerns about the impact of densely populated HMOs now uncertain. Today there will be
14:30
Lee Pitcher Portrait Lee Pitcher MP (Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme, Labour)
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now uncertain. Today there will be much further discussion on this matter, and rightly so, because we must help our high streets to regain that buzz, that splendour, and that hive of activity that people associate with these community shopping areas and places of the past. And yes, this government has a huge role to play in making that happen. And we have committed to supporting the injection of renewed life into our high streets. But today, I want to use my time, as others have done, to talk up our high streets to the remarkable staff, the shopkeepers, the landlords, the landladies, the volunteers, and highlight the great work that local businesses in my constituency constituency are doing.

And I want I want to show just how much our residents need to come out to our high streets to support our local economy, and to make sure that they experience the great offer that they have.

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Yeah. I most certainly will. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech. He's shown himself to be a true champion for Doncaster and Axholme. And could I commend his speech and his work? Would he agree with me that we all ought to be talking up our high streets? And there's a danger that

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streets? And there's a danger that some on the opposition benches are failing to see that, and they're doing real damage to small businesses. Lee Pitcher.

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Lee Pitcher. I couldn't agree more. We must we must be ambassadors and advocate for the the wonderful, innovative for the the wonderful, innovative and ingenuity and the entrepreneurialship that our business owners show along our high business owners show along our high streets. But I also want to show today where government is already helping as well to revitalise some of our areas. So I'm going to take of our areas. So I'm going to take you on a small tour, a Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme East and the Isle of Axholme monopoly tour of some of my places, if that's okay, madam Deputy Speaker yeah, so in Epworth you'll find a wonderful and diverse array find a wonderful and diverse array of independent shops like Hattie's Tea Rooms, the cosy cake shop, Godiva Hair Loss and wig specialist Godiva Hair Loss and wig specialist Imelda's, bringing people into the centre and supporting local jobs in Crowle.

Elizabeth Kate Bridal and Crowle. Elizabeth Kate Bridal and Sadie's on the High Street show how specialist independents and long standing standing family businesses standing standing family businesses can thrive side by side. Haxey has long benefited from a community of traditional pubs and helps keep the historic Haxey hood alive. In fact, The King's Arms has just unveiled a mural of the hood that many people come to see in Rossington. Death by fudge has grown from a kitchen idea into a much loved shop, proving that when small businesses find the right high street home, they thrive.

And I can tell you there are definitely worse places to go than by dying from a death by kinder Madam Deputy Speaker. And on a Friday, there wasn't a market straight opposite. Death by fudge is always opening and welcome to residents. And this weekend I'm looking forward to popping into the newly opened Vaughan Park Cafe. I think the lady from Richmond Park, she mentioned shoplifting. So what's hugely commendable about Thorne is how the shopkeepers have come together. A great example is the Shopwatch scheme, a partnership between retailers and neighbourhood policing team that's cutting retail crime and giving shopkeepers the confidence to trade.

Reports show a 34% fall in shoplifting since that scheme started, with repeat offenders brought to justice. Now, this is the kind of common sense collaboration that keeps our high streets safe and welcoming for our

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shoppers and with our, of course. Thank you, my. Friend, for.

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Friend, for. Giving way. And on the issue of shoplifting, would he agree. That the Tories. Are having.

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Are having. A bad day for their memory? Not only have they forgotten that next to my seat of Southampton Itchen is to my seat of Southampton Itchen is Madam Deputy Speakers, equally fine seat of Romsey and Southampton North, where twice I failed to North, where twice I failed to persuade them to vote for me. But actually they're forgetting what happened on their watch. They gave a £200 shoplifters free pass that has brought violence and has brought violence and intimidation to our streets.

Contrast that with our plans to put more police back on the beat. Get more police back on the beat. Get rid of that free pass. Does he agree that that's the kind of change that Labour is making to my

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change that Labour is making to my constituency and his hey. And that's 100% the kind of change that a Labour government change that a Labour government makes to our high streets. Now in Bawtry, our traders have been flying the flag for our area at flying the flag for our area at number 11, engaging directly with the Chancellor on how small firms power local growth. That connection power local growth. That connection matters because it's national decisions grounded in the reality of our market towns.

And where else of our market towns. And where else can you visit the China Rose? Have an amazing banquet, Chinese banquet at a 40 year young family run business while listening to a little bit of Dolly Parton. But if you do come and visit, do check out the website because it's not open only 9 to 5. You can also have a coffee on a Sunday next to a saxophonist, and that's not easy to say after a few beers, so stick with the coffee at the Crown Hotel and in Hatfield, independents like Cleaners Bar on the High Street and Jubal show what local enterprise can achieve.

Committed owners and real community spirits are keeping our high streets vibrant and resilient. It's not just businesses committed. Local volunteers are making their communities better places to live. People like William Richmond in Lindholme, who has led a scheme to bring a traditional traditional postbox phone box, should I say, and turn that into a mini library on the high street there. Now this Labour government is matching that local energy with national action. We will invest 20 million in Easington through the Pride in Place program, allowing the neighbourhood to take charge of regeneration, reviving the high street, renewing our parks and public spaces.

And in Moorends we've been putting Levelling Up Fund secured by the right hon. Member for Doncaster East Doncaster North for myself to produce turning plans into projects that people can see and use, improving facilities for sport, families and community groups, and helping to unlock pride and our community and opportunity, part of which is investment into the shop frontages areas and ensure that the environment is as wonderful, outside and welcoming as the shops are inside. Like Chris Huby Butchers, where I often go to buy mum her corned beef and spam for the weekend.

Now we will give our communities new powers to buy back beloved assets, use compulsory purchase to tackle long term vacancy of shops and block the clustering of unwanted outlets where they undermine the character and safety of the high street. For large, empty sites, these powers will help bring new health forward, will bring forward new health facilities and housing where appropriate, and we are backing businesses to by cutting red tape by 25% to free up time and money for owners to grow.

So today I pay tribute to the shopkeepers, market traders and small business owners across Doncaster East and Isle of Axholme. And let me finish by extending an invite to come and visit my high streets. Our high streets enjoy what we have to offer. Spend your money in my shops, in our shops. Enjoy yourself and delight in what everything that Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme has to offer.

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Hey Alison Griffiths. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Our high streets are not just. Places to shop. They are the hearts. Of our communities.

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Of our communities. But every business I speak to in Bognor Regis and Littlehampton
14:38
Alison Griffiths Portrait Alison Griffiths MP (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative)
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tells me the same thing. They are unsure if they can survive another year of this. Labour government families too are under pressure. They're worried about keeping their jobs, paying their mortgages, affording the food shop they're reining in, spending fewer coffees or pints, fewer meals out and fewer days out in venues like the brilliant Harbour Park in Littlehampton. Last Friday, I sat down with the owner of Richard Pierce Hairdressing in Aldwick. He's worked for years to train the next generation, giving young people their start in life.

But the constant hammering on his overheads is relentless. He tells me that the current government has lost all touch with local businesses and the impact of their policies under Labour, employment, National insurance, up cost of hiring up and

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energy bills up. MPs. But Madam Deputy Speaker, let's be clear what is driving this? be clear what is driving this? First of all, business rates for shops, cafes and pubs like the shops, cafes and pubs like the William Hardwick and Bognor Regis and the Beresford in Middleton on Sea business rates are a tax on Sea business rates are a tax on just showing up. They punish the visible but leave online giants visible but leave online giants untouched. Conservatives would abolish business rates for retail, abolish business rates for retail, hospitality and leisure.

Labour hospitality and leisure. Labour will not. I going to keep making some progress? Second, energy costs. some progress? Second, energy costs. Too many small businesses are paying bills far higher than just a paying bills far higher than just a few years ago. Green levies are a political choice and the result of political choice and the result of the government's ideological pursuit of net zero by 2030. While pursuit of net zero by 2030. While big manufacturers get relief, high streets are footing the bill.

And streets are footing the bill. And third, retail crime more shoplifting, more harassment, more shoplifting, more harassment, more staff unsafe at work behind every incident, like clerks, estates and Bognor Regis that had their windows smashed, is a real cost to their bottom line. Stolen stock, lost hours, rising insurance. We have plans to crack down on retail crime with tougher penalties and real consequences. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Family Business Tax and the employment rights bill that comes back before the House tomorrow.

These place unfair costs and uncertainty on the very employers like Reynolds Furniture in Bognor Regis that hold our high streets together. They are already under pressure. We should be helping those who create jobs, not frightening them off. So yes, of course workers must be protected, but those protections must not undermine the small businesses that provide the jobs in the first place. So today, Madam Deputy Speaker, I join my right hon. Friend, the Leader of the Opposition, in urging Ministers to abolish business rates for retail, hospitality and leisure to cut energy bills for all small businesses, and to tackle retail crime with tough consequences.

And finally, to scrap the unemployment rights bill. Do these things and we can begin to restore confidence in high streets, fail to do them and we will watch shutters fall, more shops disappear, and more communities lose the places that

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make them feel like home. Connor Naismith.

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Speaker. High Streets is a subject that matters deeply in constituencies matters deeply in constituencies like mine in Crewe and Nantwich, where the story of decline is
14:42
Connor Naismith Portrait Connor Naismith MP (Crewe and Nantwich, Labour)
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where the story of decline is slowly but surely being rewritten into one of renewal. For too long our high streets were left behind. 14 years of conservative government saw projects stall, shopfronts shuttered and absentee landlords allowed to hold back regeneration in Crewe. The failed Royal Arcade redevelopment became the symbol of that neglect. Shops demolished as part of a regeneration scheme only for inflation, particularly construction inflation, to soar through the ceiling as a result of Liz Truss's mini budget meant that the project failed and we have been left in Crewe with a wasteland.

Yes.

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We're here every time from the opposition benches that when the name Liz Truss we hear groans and I'm not, I'm not sure that people I'm not, I'm not sure that people in my constituency would really like to hear that groan when their mortgages went through the roof,

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mortgages went through the roof, their rents went through the roof, and they're unable to have any borrowing as businesses. She's absolutely right. They

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She's absolutely right. They don't like it. But what I'm articulating is the lived reality of my constituents and the impact of my constituents and the impact of their record on the economy in of their record on the economy in government. So a fail, a failure to tackle the root causes of decline compounded by economic compounded by economic mismanagement that drove up those construction costs. And, of course, construction costs. And, of course, the devastating loss of HS2. But Mr Speaker Crewe is turning a corner.

I'm pleased to report we are seeing real investments, real ambition and real pride returning to our town real pride returning to our town centre and that transformation is visible. It's being led by local visible. It's being led by local leaders, our community and our entrepreneurs, backed by the economic stability this Labour economic stability this Labour government is delivering. The Crewe Market Hall, for example, has been Market Hall, for example, has been reborn. Now a thriving hub of food, drink and entertainment.

The Lyceum Theatre, a jewel in our town, is now joined by the Lyceum Square, a modern development that complements its its historic charm. Together, they anchor a growing cultural quarter, and that quarter is expanding. The former Dorothy Perkins and Burton unit on Market Street wants another empty shell, and blight on the High street. Now hosts Crewe creates a vibrant space for arts and culture, and it shows what can happen when creativity meets opportunity. Yes.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon. Gentleman making an excellent point about the importance of arts and culture in importance of arts and culture in town centres and also the importance of restoring and reclaiming historic buildings to bring a sense of place to help bring a sense of place to help small traders to flourish, and also to bring arts activities to the public, bringing footfall into our public, bringing footfall into our town centres. And I'd also like to commend and point out the work done by Reading Borough Council to create a similar hub in Reading

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create a similar hub in Reading town centre, so I really do hope he continues with his great work. He's absolutely right about the

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He's absolutely right about the point of restoring old buildings, and that's exactly what we're seeing take place in Crewe. Alongside this, a rolling programme of cultural events from Crewe Town Council and the Crewe Business Council and the Crewe Business Improvement District is helping to make Our Town an early contender. I feel for this government's first feel for this government's first Town of Culture award. I'm going to make some progress and opportunity make some progress and opportunity is exactly what the repurposing the High Street grants delivered by our Labour Council in Cheshire East have delivered.

These are £30,000 grants for local entrepreneurs to renovate empty shop units, and these grants have empowered small these grants have empowered small and independent businesses to take risks, fill empty units and breathe new life into our town centre. They've transformed vacant spaces into thriving ventures, and I invite Ministers to come to Crewe and see the impact for themselves, and consider whether this scheme could be a blueprint for national rollout. Because it works, I am going to make progress. I'm afraid this scheme, alongside the Southern Gateway project, is a great example of public investment.

Connecting the dots, creating vibrant public spaces and opening up opportunities for a new community of businesses to emerge on our once neglected high street. Businesses like the Arena Ice and Fire Tattoo Studio and ABC childcare are leading the way, and the upcoming Youth Zone, opening in spring 2026 will give young people a space to thrive right in the heart of our town centre. Even the old man's unit, long a symbol of stagnation, now has a positive future under new ownership.

It's a powerful metaphor for Crewe itself, written off by some but now ready to rise. We've seen investments in places like the Miriam Street Boxing Club, supporting grassroots sport and building community resilience. These are the building blocks of a high street that works for everyone. And Madam Deputy Speaker, this is what happens when local leadership, community ambition and targeted investment come together. Rather than talking our communities down. As we've heard too often from members on that side.

So I say to investors, come to Crewe, to artists and entrepreneurs come to Crewe and to government Ministers come and see what happens when a town refuses to be left behind like our railway past. Madam Deputy

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Speaker, Crewe town centre is on the right track. Yeah. Bradley Thomas. Thank you.

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, for decades the high street has been more than a place to shop. It's a
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Bradley Thomas Portrait Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)
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more than a place to shop. It's a barometer of both economic and social vitality of the country and of the communities where they're located. They're a gauge of whether we're prospering or whether we are declining. And they are the sweet spot on the Venn diagram of both societal indicators and policy areas, including economic confidence, aspiration, entrepreneurship, crime and confidence in policing, prominence of institutions and the quality of the public realm, as well as changing social habits. Yet today, high streets across the country face existential threats from unaffordable costs and dwindling footfall to surging illicit activity and a loss of purpose.

And I know that this sentiment is not just mine. It's shared by so many. And August 2025 UK Hospitality Survey revealed that 42% of people nationwide believe that their high street is worse than it was a year ago, but that statistic rising to 55% in suburban areas, high streets, they're the cornerstone of British history. Their decline is not just economic, it is cultural. And their disappearance is a stark signal that the identity of many communities is also changing and in many cases, eroding.

In 2024, an average of 38 shops or stores closed every single day, with independent retailers accounting for 85% of those closures. So we are allowing our proudly owned family run shops and ambitious independents to be replaced by a sea of cheap vape outlets, barbers, charity shops and unregulated

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aesthetic clinics, many of which are linked to the black market. I will give way Ian Roome. I thank my honourable.

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I thank my honourable. of. This debate. Focuses on. The high. Streets under a magnifying glass

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Streets under a magnifying glass in my constituency of North Devon, 1 in 5 people work in the retail or 1 in 5 people work in the retail or wholesale sector. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that if our Friend agree with me that if our shop fronts were a factory or a shipyard, the government would be framing the challenge very

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framing the challenge very differently? I do. I think the point was made by another hon. Member earlier that because the losses in retail are dispersed very thinly across the country, this erosion is taking country, this erosion is taking place in plain sight. And if it was an industry with a a collective sort of centre in one location, it sort of centre in one location, it would probably be viewed very differently. Our town centres, Madam Deputy Speaker, they need essential services like banking essential services like banking hubs to compensate for the decrease in bank branches between 2010 and 2023, so that people of all 2023, so that people of all generations can manage their finances.

They need. We need the heart of our cities, towns and heart of our cities, towns and villages to be restored and thriving once again. And let's just have a look at the environment in which some of these are operating which some of these are operating the economic climate. Well, National insurance changes hit sectors very hard last year. And sectors that provide accessible careers, including hospitality, were hit the hardest, employers having to pay thousands of pounds more just to recruit people compared to a year and a half ago.

And hospitality has seen job losses at the expense of some of the lowest paid people in society. Being able to have a foot on the employment ladder. And we know that the economy is underperforming. We've seen tax hikes last year, £40 billion in the budget. The Chancellor promised that the budget last year was a one off hit of a kind that wouldn't be replicated again in this Parliament. Yet the government is facing the reality of their own choices, and economic naivety play out once again.

A typical pub in my constituency is paying £2,000 per month in additional cost, including hiked business rates, employment costs and, crucially, energy costs compared to this time last year. So to put that into perspective, if a couple go to a pub and they spend £80 on dinner and drinks, that pub would have to serve an additional 25 bookings each month just to cover that cost. This is staggering. I speak to so many publicans in hospitality business operators in my patch, who tell me that next year is critical year, where they will have to decide whether they close the doors for good.

They are literally on the brink of questioning their own survival right now. But there are other points, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I would like the government to focus on in for the Minister to address later on, particularly around the public realm. I would like to quite acutely on how we can revitalise the quality of our public roads, focusing on design codes that I think should be mandatory for all local authorities. One of the first acts of this government last year was to abandon the need for beautiful design as part of the NPPF, and close the office for place.

Well, this is really important because if the quality of the public realm is decaying, then our town centres are not as attractive as they may otherwise be. For private sector investment. We're seeing with the closure of particularly prominent banks and high streets, that large historic buildings that are often anchor points, they are going into falling into disarray. It's much harder to get occupants into their. This is why I'm really pleased to support the conservative proposal to abolish business rates for pubs, shops and hospitality.

This would be a real shot in the arm for high streets up and down the country, and I'm conscious of time, Madam Deputy Speaker. But there's one other point that I would like to touch upon that hasn't been mentioned in this debate yet, and it relates to the role that local councils can play. Local councils are great at kickstarting local economic activity, but in order for them to be empowered to act as the catalyst in their local areas, we do need to address the elephant in the room that is adult social care.

Whilst the government is focusing on local government reorganisation, I would implore the government to think about the role. Well, he's shaking his head, but the reality

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is, yeah, I will give way. I welcome the the members Opposite's new interest in. Adult social care.

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Adult social care. So Dilnot. Report was. Delivered in 2011. What were they doing for the subsequent 13 years in which they were in years in which they were in government and not delivering meaningful change to social care? Yeah.

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Yeah. Thank thank you. I thank him for his intervention. It's a bit of a cheap jibe. If he takes a look through Hansard, he'll realise that I've taken an interest in social care for some time. But the reality is that councils across the country is that councils across the country spend circa seven out of £10 on social care. It's very important that society spends money on social that society spends money on social care. But whilst the government is focusing on local government reorganisation and social care continues to be a huge financial obligation for local authorities.

That means they can spend less money on the public realm. We've money on the public realm. We've got to address this. The long term positioning of social care, where it's funded from, which pot it's it's funded from, which pot it's funded, needs to be addressed in order to support councils and give them the best possible foundation

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them the best possible foundation to ensure that they can address the economic needs of their area. Doctor Allison Gardner.

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Doctor Allison Gardner. Deputy Speaker, I'm delighted to. Take this opportunity. To speak about. Long term, a beloved town centre

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Long term, a beloved town centre in my constituency of Stoke on Trent and South that is very much on the up and I am very excited at the minister's offer, who's not in a seat at the moment, but she has offered to visit and I'm sure she will be excited to find what the wonderful work that's happening in long term. There is a real sense of momentum in long term right now, a growing confidence and pride in what the town has to offer.

Much of this is thanks to the brilliant award winning team at our busy shopping centre, Longton Exchange, led by Chris Ward, who are doing so much to breathe new life into the town centre. Their commitment has supported has helped support traders, attract new businesses and bring fresh energy to the heart of the community. The High street is absolutely the heart of Longton. It's where community life happens, where people bump into friends, visit our beautiful Victorian market, grab a coffee or pop into one of our many brilliant independent shops.

When the high street is thriving, everything else follows and we're seeing that now with businesses like The Kiln at number 12. So Very dog and the Wonderful Crumbs Bakery, who won the Windsor Shop competition and have set up their brilliant new bakery in the exchange. Longton has always been a creative town from the world renowned Belstaff, whose clothes are sold right across the globe to the Gladstone Pottery Museum, home to the Great Pottery Throwdown. Creativity is in our DNA. That spirit is alive and well today, thanks to groups like Urban Wilderness who are keeping art and imagination at the heart of the town.

Their famous pig walk now brings thousands of people to Longton every year. The magic footfall as a joyful celebration of community and creativity that shows what's possible when people come together. Their passion for ground up community leadership. Hosting the long term town forum to bring together local businesses and residents is vital for the future of our town, and I support them in their aim to turn the old bank into
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Allison Gardner Portrait Dr Allison Gardner MP (Stoke-on-Trent South, Labour)
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a fantastic art centres. And we also have the fantastic Sheila Cowell and her team at the Lockton Cowell and her team at the Lockton Community Partnership, continuing to bring residents together and making Longton Bloom. We are also making Longton Bloom. We are also seeing a real focus on supporting the next generation Madam Deputy Speaker launch it in our renovated Speaker launch it in our renovated town hall are doing brilliant work helping young entrepreneurs turn their ideas into real businesses, their ideas into real businesses, giving them the confidence and practical support to get started.

practical support to get started. There is also tangible investments starting to flow into the town. Showing the difference. A Labour Showing the difference. A Labour government working with a Labour council makes Stoke on Trent City Council's ongoing public rail works are helping to make Longton more welcoming, accessible and better welcoming, accessible and better connected, especially around the High street and Market area. And with 1.5 million in Pride in Place funding being rolled out in Stoke on Trent thanks to this Labour government, I'll be working hard to make sure long term gets its fair share.

This funding needs to build share. This funding needs to build on the progress already being made locally, making sure that the priorities of my constituents are priorities of my constituents are reflected and acted upon. And it would be remiss of me, Madam Deputy Speaker, not to mention Meir North and the 20 million Pride in Place funding that we have for them. Meir North also has its high street, and I promise the residents there, along with their councillor, Lauren Davidson, that we will deliver on their ask to make us safe and secure.

High Street on Weston Road, this is all sits alongside this Labour government's wider commitment to invest in our high streets, restoring pride and prosperity to towns that have in the past been overlooked with new community right to buy, compulsory purchase powers, lowered business rates and supporting more neighbourhood policing, I'm confident this government will ensure long term continues to have a strong local centre somewhere that reflects its identity, sports small businesses and brings people together. And there are, of course, still challenges.

The much loved Crown work stands as a reminder of London's industrial past and its potential for renewal, its long awaited regeneration into housing is something the community is eager to finally see delivered, and we must confront the problems that have blighted our high street fire and old, neglected buildings and too many empty properties left to decay. This issue cannot be ignored and absent landlords must be held to account. Our town deserves better than to have its heritage and its future put at risk.

And despite this managing many challenges, the people remain resilient, creative and proud. And this is why I'm leading on a preliminary long term town centre masterplan, ensuring the business and customers really have a say in how their town centre is regenerated for them, by them, with them. One of its key ambitions. I'm going to run out of time, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I have every confidence that London's best days

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are ahead. Liz Jarvis Deputy Speaker
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Liz Jarvis Portrait Liz Jarvis MP (Eastleigh, Liberal Democrat)
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Britain's high streets are the beating hearts of our communities. They serve as social hubs, cultural landmarks and a vital source of jobs and prosperity. Yet in my constituency of Eastleigh, as across the country, our high streets are under immense pressure. Local residents are concerned when they see empty shopfronts in the town centre and our local shopping centre. As we know, the growth of online shopping has changed the culture of retail, a trend which has only worsened as a result of the pandemic.

According to Eastleigh bid, footfall in Eastleigh town centre is 56% below pre-pandemic figures, showing the depth of decline. Our high street has faced cuts to local bus services by conservative controlled Hampshire County Council have left many residents without regular bus services. The impact on our high streets has been an afterthought for the county council, and our local businesses are starting to feel it, and it's not just declining footfall that is hurting our local businesses, it's the growing threat of retail crime.

According to the ONS, shoplifting increased by 13% in the year ending June 2025. I recently met with a local retailer who had been the victim of shoplifting, losing thousands of pounds worth of stock. We have all heard stories of staff members at retail shops being subjected to verbal abuse. The government must tackle this issue head on with more urgency. We need to return to proper community policing to deal with this type of crime, which is why I've long campaigned for the reopening of Eastleigh Police station.

Perhaps the greatest symbol of our high streets are pubs, of which there are 32. In my constituency. They are vital social gathering hubs for people to come together and feel a part of their community. According to the British Beer and Pub Association, due to increases in costs following the budget last year, pubs now face a 9% £0.09 loss per pint unless they raise prices by £0.21. If the government continues on this path, we risk

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losing the very pubs that enrich our high streets. Which could weigh. On that point. I will.

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I will. Thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I just want to mention the Loughborough Inn Street, which is a locally Inn Street, which is a locally owned and run business. It's been crippled by business rates, rocketing utility costs and rocketing utility costs and national insurance costs, but it also contributes so much to the social fabric of the town. So does my hon. Friend agree with me that we must support the hospitality

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sector with fundamental reform of business rates so that they can thrive. Well, my hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and I will be coming on to this shortly. Independent businesses also face an incredibly tough environment. The incredibly tough environment. The reduction in retail, hospitality and leisure relief from 75% to 40% effectively leaves small businesses subsidising large chains. We are incredibly lucky to have many thriving independent businesses in thriving independent businesses in Eastleigh, including AC models, O'Briens artisan, the Coffee Cabin and choice of sandwiches.

My constituent David, who is the owner of Steamtown Brewery, told me that higher costs for staffing are higher costs for staffing are hitting his business hard with the employer. National insurance contributions increase disincentivizing businesses from investing in local jobs. I've also spoken with local hairdressers, including Jemma from Jemma George Hair Artistry and Jane from Chelmsford about the challenges they're facing. They're worried about structural flaws in the VAT system for labour intensive businesses. Challenges to the employer model within the industry and the lingering impact of the Covid pandemic.

These small businesses enrich our high streets, but they are having to fight so hard, working incredibly long hours to make their businesses viable. We should be celebrating entrepreneurship, not putting more roadblocks in their way. Madam Deputy Speaker, it was the previous government which left business rates unreformed, negotiated a disastrous Brexit deal, oversaw a massive spiralling energy costs, rents and interest rates all piling incredible pressure on high street businesses. So many of the challenges they are facing are because of policy choices over the past decade, and for all their showboating, we have seen no coherent plan from the Reform Party.

Indeed, they haven't even bothered to show up to this debate. Liberal Democrats are calling for business rates to be replaced with a commercial landowner levy. So we tax the land value, not the productive investment that will give struggling high streets the breathing space they desperately need. It is wrong that households and high streets are being punished. While big banks, gambling companies and social media giants get away without paying their fair share. We must shift the tax burden away from small and medium sized businesses onto those with the broadest shoulders.

Madam Deputy Speaker, our communities deserve better than short term stunts or uncosted Tory headlines. They deserve a long term plan to revive our high streets, restore pride in our towns and put small businesses at the centre of

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Britain's economic recovery. Lloyd Hatton Madam Deputy

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Lloyd Hatton Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak on this debate for the very simple reason that my first job was on the reason that my first job was on the High Street in Weymouth town centre, where I grew up. I don't like to
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Lloyd Hatton Portrait Lloyd Hatton MP (South Dorset, Labour)
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talk about too often, but it was a particularly popular and well loved fish and chip shop, The Marlborough. But since leaving that chip shop, what's been really clear to me in Weymouth is how much the high street has struggled, and a lot of the challenges facing the high street began before the Covid pandemic. It is right to understand the devastating impact of that pandemic on our high streets, but much of the damage delivered in part by the previous conservative government was before that pandemic.

Madam Deputy Speaker, if you would indulge me, I'd like to set out in a little more detail exactly how I feel we can revitalise our high streets, especially in Weymouth town centre and on Portland as well. Firstly, in September, the Weymouth Museum Trust received over £40,000 of new funding, paving the way for them to be able to maintain a pop up temporary museum in Weymouth town centre. I'm grateful that the Labour government chose to invest in Weymouth Museum.

This museum is a fantastic hub. It celebrates our history and our heritage, and it showcases everything that is special about our town. But this funding is just a short term solution. We urgently need to move Weymouth Museum back into Brewer's Quay in the heart of Weymouth. This would be a much more suitable permanent home for the museum, so I look forward to working closely with the developers, Dorset Council, local businesses, the Museum Trust and of course the Department for culture, Media and Sport to do just that.

I know that we can return the museum to Brewer's Quay. What's clear to me is that if we want to revitalise our high streets, including Weymouth in Weymouth, then we need to have an effective partnership between businesses, charities, the council and national government to back our local museums. I will give way on that point.

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Giving way? Will my hon. Friend agree with me that a crucial aspect of town centre regeneration is to increase accessibility for people increase accessibility for people living with disabilities and unlock the power of the Purple Pound. And if you make the high street

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if you make the high street accessible for disabled people, you make it accessible for everyone. Thank you. hon. Friend makes a valuable

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hon. Friend makes a valuable point. Whether it is local museums like Weymouth Museum or any other institution in the town centre, institution in the town centre, making them accessible is essential to making them a success. I know to making them a success. I know that Ministers understand the importance of supporting heritage and our local museums, so I look and our local museums, so I look forward to working closely with them and cracking on with the important work of restoring important work of restoring Weymouth Museum at Brewer's Quay.

Secondly, I've been working closely with Treasury Ministers to finally deliver Eden, Portland, or Portland, deliver Eden, Portland, or Portland, as it is officially known, a world class attraction on Portland. Now, this project has been in the this project has been in the pipeline for many years and unfortunately, successive conservative Ministers failed to conservative Ministers failed to recognise the huge potential of Portland, which I know could breathe new life into the local economy on Portland. If delivered, the project could boost Portland's small businesses, attract new visitors to the island, secure well-paid jobs and create a truly unique attraction that both celebrates our Jurassic Coast and educates visitors about biodiversity.

It is clear to me that Eden Portland could be a significant anchor institution, attracting new visitors not just to Portland but to the whole of Dorset as well. The brilliant Eden Project down in Cornwall is a proven success story, so I'm now eager to see Eden Portland proposals delivered so we can realise similar benefits in my part of the world. Local businesses across Weymouth and Portland tell me time and again that Eden Portland can create a year round visitor economy.

This means shops, cafes, pubs, hotels and restaurants can feel the benefits of increased visitor numbers outside of the summer season and school holidays. If built, Eden Portland can be the anchor institution that we desperately need in Weymouth and Portland, delivering year round benefits to the local economy. So I will continue to do everything I can, working alongside the Treasury to secure the funding needed and finally deliver this exciting project as soon as possible. Finally, I would like to just look a little bit more detail at the work that I would like to do with this Labour government to finally deliver a Weymouth Culture and Visitor Centre at the Old Rectory building in Weymouth.

Years of underinvestment in Weymouth by the previous conservative government meant that we have never had a dedicated venue that will showcase art, music and culture. I believe we urgently need a standalone space in our vibrant town to do just that. I know that if opened, this centre would be a landmark venue offering a year round programme of exhibitions, performances and community and educational events. If you come to Dorset, Madam Deputy Speaker, you will know that there are so many successful artists, musicians, photographers and creatives who all richly deserve a venue like this in Weymouth.

When you look to many other seaside towns, they have celebrated and leant in to an art and culture point.

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. As a frequent visitor giving way. As a frequent visitor to Weymouth and seeing the dogs dog sticker scheme in all the sticker scheme in all the businesses on the High street, does my hon. Friend agree with me that making high street businesses dog friendly helps increase the profits? Because it certainly cost me a bother to. When I've gone into

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bother to. When I've gone into those shops that allow me to go in with my dog. Firstly, I thank the hon. Member

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Firstly, I thank the hon. Member for his customers for investing in Weymouth and as a proud owner of Weymouth and as a proud owner of the New Found Larder. I know that dogs get you out, they get you spending and they get you in the spending and they get you in the high street. Madam Deputy Speaker, just to conclude, when we look at towns like Margate, Folkestone and towns like Margate, Folkestone and Falmouth who have championed art and culture, we have seen that it has boosted the high street and has boosted the high street and drawn visitors into seaside towns.

I now want to see the same happen in Weymouth. So, unsurprisingly, in Weymouth. So, unsurprisingly, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will be banging the drum for a new cultural and visitor centre at the rectory and visitor centre at the rectory building in Weymouth. I know this project is just another way that we can breathe new life into Weymouth can breathe new life into Weymouth town centre and attract new businesses and visitors to our town. Madam Deputy Speaker, as I've hopefully made clear today, there are so many exciting projects on

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the cards for me. I will give way. I just,. To your. Speech very carefully. But.

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But. I think I. Missed in his, in his £19.5 million of levelling up £19.5 million of levelling up funding that Weymouth got in 2023 under the last conservative government.

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government. I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. Money that was then unspent by the previous conservative administration at conservative administration at Dorset Council. It now falls to myself and the new administration at Dorset Council to spend that at Dorset Council to spend that money wisely, which we are doing. So also this Labour Government, I will remind the hon. Member, has will remind the hon. Member, has just invested £20 million into Weymouth as part of the Pride in Place.

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Place. Now. After the next speaker, I am going to reduce the time limit to going to reduce the time limit to four minutes. However, I think it might be helpful if I were to draw members attention. You can all sit

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members attention. You can all sit down to page five of. The Rules. Of Courtesies and.

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Of Courtesies and. specifically. As it. Pertains to interventions.

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As it. Pertains to interventions. It is rude to come into the chamber and to intervene when you haven't and to intervene when you haven't been here. For the vast majority of the debate. So Iain Duncan Smith.

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Madam Deputy Speaker I. I say to the hon. Gentleman just spoken, it's very good that he did finally it's very good that he did finally remember the money that was given by the last government, even though they haven't spent it, which is they haven't spent it, which is even a double pleasure for him. I'm sure he'll find another way to spend it on his own area. I speak today simply to support the key areas that I have, which are high street shopping areas in my constituency, the Mount Hatch Lane, constituency, the Mount Hatch Lane, Havant Park, Station Road, Woodford Broadway and George Lane.

Each one
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Iain Duncan Smith Portrait Rt Hon Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP (Chingford and Woodford Green, Conservative)
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Broadway and George Lane. Each one of them now suffers as a result of a whole lot of different problems that have been going on, sometimes for a long, long time, and more particularly, some of the more recent issues that erupt as a result of government policy. The fact is that for all the difficulties and difficulties in high streets, for over many high streets, for over many governments slowly, progressively being difficult, even though governments have often tried to do different things. But what isn't helpful after this particular period is that the government is seeing these difficulties.

And I seeing these difficulties. And I must say, the hon. Lady who spoke from the despatch box spoke about the difficulties that they faced, and they could see them when they and they could see them when they came in and all the things that they wanted to do for them. But their decision then was to introduce National Insurance introduce National Insurance charges higher. And the second most important part of that, which I think is more important in a way, think is more important in a way, is the fact that they they lowered the the starting point of paying National Insurance.

That has been a National Insurance. That has been a body blow to small shops and retailers in all of our constituencies. I will indeed. Thank you very much. My right hon. Friend, for giving way. Andy Rafter, the owner of rafters award winning greengrocers in Driffield, was telling me just this morning that the bill he has received as a result of National Insurance increases is £30,000 a year. Now, would you agree with me that deters investment, deters future employment and it's just bad for businesses in our high street.



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I instinctively agree with him, even though I've never met him. But even though I've never met him. But I wish him. I wish him well. You may be worried, though. I should have remembered I'd met him, but I. have remembered I'd met him, but I. I realised that I hadn't, so there is no early onset. Now? Not that is no early onset. Now? Not that early, but other than that, I wish him well. The main point, though, him well.

The main point, though, coming back to it, is that that National Insurance, the government, if they really, really, really if they really, really, really wanted to raise National Insurance, surely should have made a major change to that in not imposing it change to that in not imposing it on small retail outfits and certainly not small shops and shopkeepers. It's been a disaster, frankly, and it's added massively frankly, and it's added massively to the bills. Now the other bit, which is going to cause some problems, is hugely, of course, electricity costs that have risen mostly, by the way, not to do necessarily with the strike price necessarily with the strike price of gas, but massively down to the fact that we are now charged huge amounts on our bills simply to be able to subsidise this unbelievably high paced drive to get to net zero, which is going to affect many of which is going to affect many of them.

And the last point would be that what has never reported and I take up, I can't remember who it was, said this earlier on. What I recommend to the government is they look again at the whole idea of hospitality, 100,000 lost jobs in hospitality, as somebody said earlier on, in any industry, would have been a major, major issue to debate on the floor of the House. It is huge and it is one of the areas a for start up individuals for the first time in and secondly for businesses, the pubs, all of those areas that are high points on our high streets at the time as well, and I have to say, added to all of this, which Labour Council seem to be really incapable of understanding, the real problem that they put on them is in my area.

They've now gone and levied really restrictive parking charges on high streets. And the trouble is, many of the high streets rely on passing trade. Somebody that wants to get one thing pulls in maybe for 15 minutes free parking, goes over to another shop, buy something there and gets back into their car. Massively without that, without the encouragement to park to be able to do these things. I know in my high street, particularly Station Road, they have seen a very significant

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fall off in trade simply because of those parking charges were imposed. It's not helpful. I will indeed. Thank you.

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Thank you. Madam Speaker. I thank the honourable, the hon. Member for giving way. In my area, the conservative administration actually brought in a parking charge after Labour campaigned extensively for free parking. But I extensively for free parking. But I was interestingly reassured by the local council recently. Madam Deputy Speaker, because I noted Deputy Speaker, because I noted that the the data that showed footfall differences before and after parking charges actually made after parking charges actually made made no difference at all.

I wonder if the right hon. Gentleman could comment on the fact that in many areas, I think it's the case that small charges in parking actually don't make an awful lot of

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difference. I don't have a conservative council to criticise, although I would criticise him if they had would criticise him if they had done what he had just actually said. So I simply say it was a Labour council that introduced these charges. And by the way, they've charges. And by the way, they've had a dramatic effect on those who would have come to shops. Small bookshop that's been there for many years is now thinking about calling years is now thinking about calling it a day.

So that is a real problem. And I think to say it is bonkers to And I think to say it is bonkers to be able to add that to the other problems that these businesses have got. And one other point I'd make to the government, they might like to the government, they might like to try something that does ruin high streets and causes real problem is the inability of local authorities to control the number of adult gaming centres that go into some of the shops, particularly when there, and I and many others are campaigning to get the government to allow local authorities to make a decision about that rather than it being overridden.

I hope they will look at that in due course. But the one big thing that is really affecting our high streets above all else, is the nature of the crime and shoplifting that is going on in these high streets. We have had a huge problem in our main shopping centres, because it's not just that they go into shops and as somebody said earlier on, their violent, they threaten them. The shopkeepers themselves are often pressed to the walls while they take thousands of pounds.

This is not 1 or £2. Thousands of pounds of goods are robbed off shop shelves and the shopkeepers are threatened, and those who are shopping are threatened. And it drives people out of the high street. Now all the policing, etc. going on. We've tried very hard to bring them all together so that the shops would report the crime, the police would be there for it. But for all of that, it's still rising. And one of the biggest problems is as soon as you arrest one of these shoplifters, they end up saying that they wish to be tried in a Crown court.

They know full well the backlog on Crown courts is so great that they're out again on the street that afternoon. And so what we really should do in the government should really look at this very carefully is whether or not they should be allowed to do that. And secondly, magistrates courts which do not have a backlog should be doing summary charges on them in criminal cases, obviously with limits that would get them off the street that day, not back on the streets committing crime again as they were.

I don't think I can give way again because you haven't a minute to give me. Sorry about that. But other than that, I would love to give way to him. But I won't because I want to finish. And I have to say to him and others here that that is a major problem. And I want to know that the government will do what it's going to have to do to level that issue down, because as long as this crime is on a huge scale in our high streets, we will then lose more and more people coming and they will see more shops closed.

So I ask the government simply to think again about the National Insurance charges, the level of business rates and the nature of crime on our high streets. These are the three main things that are driving people away from the high streets, and mostly into shopping centres, which are not the areas that we want them. We want them on our high streets, which are really important and vital to our communities.

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Laurence Turner speaker I was initially surprised to see today's motion on the Order Paper, given motion on the Order Paper, given that it is essentially a resubmission of a motion previously submitted by the opposition and
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Laurence Turner Portrait Laurence Turner MP (Birmingham Northfield, Labour)
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rejected by the House in February. But we should not have been. After all, they do say that culprits often return to the scene of the offence, and when it comes to the current and parlous state of many of our high streets, the Conservative Party is especially culpable. But really, we should be grateful to them, because today's debate has been an opportunity to talk about the high streets in many of our constituencies that were so badly let down. Under 14 years of conservative administration.

Northfield High Street is home to some excellent and specialised vendors, but the street is tired in too many places. Problems relating to homelessness, addiction, shoplifting and other forms of crime stretched back many years. Three years ago, it looked like the tide would turn when great hopes, encouraged locally and nationally by the conservatives, were raised over the round two of the Levelling Up fund, a bid was prepared for £11 million to regenerate the high street, but those hopes were cruelly dashed. Not one penny of that funding was allocated to the city of Birmingham.

Instead, much of that funding was redirected to leafier and more affluent parts of the country as the right hon. Member for Richmond so memorably boasted. Our high streets are still dealing with the legacy of a hollowing out of West Midlands Police in the 20 tens. The force lost 1200 police officers and PCSOs, and the local authority suffered the sharpest cuts to spending power of any unitary council over the last decade. Now, attempts were made to distract our constituents from the slow deterioration, with grand visions of schemes that were solid as the wind.

Five years ago, the conservative mayor of the West Midlands, then Andy Street, published a transport map of the region as part of his election campaign. It detailed a prospective new metro line down the Bristol Road through Northfield High Street. But this metro extension was not mentioned again after the election, as far as I can tell. No serious development work was ever done on the idea. I have had to spend too much time since last July chasing ghost trains, spectral station upgrades and phantom train lines, and this approach has continued today with the will of the wisp pledge to abolish rates completely.

It will not convince a single business in any of our constituencies. That's why today's motion is so risible. It's the political equivalent of returning once more to kick the crap paving stones, the empty units, and the broken bus stops that they left behind. Now, I am glad to be able to say that under Labour, progress is now being made. Capital funding has been secured for infrastructure works on our transport network. That will mean more money in people's pockets and greater footfall.

And crucially, £20 million has been committed over ten years to the Hauxley estate through the Pride in Place funding. I'm very grateful to the high streets Minister for promising to visit the constituency and when she does, we will talk with local businesses about credible policies that will assist their current position. These will be real measures that will help businesses, not the fantasies of the party opposite who broke Britain and who come to the House today with not a hint of self-criticism, no credibility and no shame.

Now, I'd like to finish with a few words about the Employment Rights Bill, and I draw attention to my connection with the GMB trade union. It was welcome that the Liberal Democrats amendment that was submitted to this motion sought to strike out the conservatives words on Employment Rights bill. I hope that this represents a change in approach and that they will not again line up with the Tories and reform when the Bill returns to the

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division lobbies tomorrow night. Yeah. Aphra Brandreth. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to draw attention to my register of interests. Like so many.
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Aphra Brandreth Portrait Aphra Brandreth MP (Chester South and Eddisbury, Conservative)
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register of interests. Like so many. Across Chester South and Eddisbury, I rely on our local high street for all sorts of everyday street for all sorts of everyday things to pop to the shops for groceries, to grab a coffee with a friend, to get a haircut, post a parcel, or simply see familiar faces and feel connected. The high street is where community happens. It's where local life comes together. But in recent weeks and months, the countless local businesses I've spoken to say they are working incredibly hard but struggling under the weight of rising costs, red tape and taxes.

Madam Deputy Speaker, at a time when we know the Chancellor is preparing her budget for next month, this debate is more important than ever because it already looks worryingly likely that we are heading for yet another business busting budget from this Labour government. So perhaps today those on the front benches will listen carefully, not just to the voices from this side of the house, but to the small business owners in Chester South and Eddisbury who keep our high streets alive. Madam Deputy Speaker, in my constituency there is no large supermarket, no bank, no big chain restaurants.

Our high streets are not just part of community life. They provide vital services. Supporting them is not optional. It is essential. Let me give an example. No high street is really complete without a pub. Yet this Labour government's decisions have left the hospitality sector reeling. Last year, the Chancellor cut business rates relief for the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors, which means the average pub has seen its rates bill rise from around £4,000 to over £9,600 a year. Add to that the rise in employer National Insurance contributions and the frustration felt by many businesses that the burdens imposed by the Employment Rights Bill will, in practice, do the opposite of what is intended.

Instead of protecting jobs, it risks making them harder to provide. Madam Deputy Speaker, the government has created a perfect

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storm for pubs and hospitality businesses. I will give way. To giving way on the Employment

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To giving way on the Employment Rights Bill. One of the biggest problems is day one rights that exist, meaning very difficult for exist, meaning very difficult for them to be able to allow some flexibility to make a decision as to whether that was the right hire or not.

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or not. My right hon. Friend makes an important point, and it's one that businesses have raised directly businesses have raised directly with me. They all want to do the right thing, but they do need to have the flexibility to be able to have the flexibility to be able to employ in different circumstances. Just last week, I met Richard, who runs several independent pubs across Cheshire, including the Boar's Head, which is near Winberry. Like many landlords, his biggest Like many landlords, his biggest worry isn't just his own business but his staff.

Because of higher costs and new employment burdens, he's been forced to make difficult choices. He's concerned that he won't be able to offer part time won't be able to offer part time jobs this Christmas to give young people some extra cash and, more importantly, experience, and to importantly, experience, and to help him meet the demands of the festive season. Since last year's

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budget. Tens of thousands of jobs have disappeared across hospitality and retail. Lady give way. I will give way.

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I will give way. I thank Joe Robertson. I thank. The hon. Lady for. Giving way. And she's speaking eloquently about pubs. Does she agree with me that one of the best ways to support pubs is to give them a fair excise regime, and

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that falls on the government? Aphra Brandreth. Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes an important hon. Friend makes an important point, and supporting pubs is vital because they really are at the heart of many of our high streets. heart of many of our high streets. And as I was saying, since last year's budget, tens of thousands of jobs have disappeared across hospitality and retail. That is Labour's record, and it shows exactly why we need a government exactly why we need a government that understands business, backs enterprise and believes in delivering growth.

Another vital delivering growth. Another vital high street service. Madam Deputy Speaker, is the Post office with no bank in my constituency, post bank in my constituency, post offices are indispensable, but many are struggling to keep their doors open when the branch in Kelsall open when the branch in Kelsall shut. I launched a petition to save it, and I'm grateful for the support of nearly 350 residents who support of nearly 350 residents who added their names. I've since met with the post office, which is with the post office, which is actively seeking a new location, but as our high street shrink and local businesses face mounting pressures from the damaging pressures from the damaging policies of this Labour government, finding suitable premises is increasingly difficult.

I'm going increasingly difficult. I'm going to make progress. Thank you. In Malpas, the Post office recently Malpas, the Post office recently closed with no notice at all after sustained community pressure. The dedication of our hard working local councillor, Rachel Williams and through further discussions with the Post Office Limited, it has thankfully reopened, though at present it operates without cash services, so I continue to work with them to help restore the full range of facilities so that many people who rely on those every day will be able to access them.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to end on a positive note supporting our conservative vision for how we can restore and revitalise our high streets. Businesses in my constituency have welcomed the plan set out by the Shadow Chancellor and the Leader of the Opposition, particularly our commitment to permanent 100% business rates relief for the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors, a policy I'm sorry, I need to make progress. A policy that would support around 250,000 businesses nationwide. So as the Chancellor prepares her budget later this month, I say to her and to her Ministers step outside Westminster this Friday, walk down your local high street.

Speak to the shopkeepers, the publicans, the hairdressers, the café owners, listen to their concerns and put them at the centre of your budget and support this conservative motion that will deliver for our communities and our high streets. Anna Dixon. Thank you,

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Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm very. Fortunate to represent the. Villages of. Beautiful villages.

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Beautiful villages. Across the Shipley constituency. Like Baildon, Menston, Burley in. Wharfedale, Wilsden. Harden.

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Harden. Cullingworth, Eldwick. These are. Thriving communities, and. The reason they're they're
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Anna Dixon Portrait Anna Dixon MP (Shipley, Labour)
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thriving is because they have. Village halls. Churches like. Wesley's in Baildon, post. Offices like the one that's run

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Offices like the one that's run by volunteers in Wilsden as a community post office, pubs like the Malt Shovel in Menston and the the Malt Shovel in Menston and the local co-operatives supermarkets and the many independent cafes and shops. Bingley and Shipley Bingley is a historic market town. It's got a thriving arts centre. It's recently benefited from upgrades from grassroots arts funding. Its anchor business is the famous art market factory making thermal underwear. They host community events including a currently a fantastic exhibition for Bradford 2025.

And then there are new charitable enterprises like the brick Bank cafe and independent shops like Lescombes Gifts, Hedgehog Organics, Eldwick Creamery as well as cafes like The Craft House, The Loft and The Lounge. But sadly, at the heart of the town is Bingley Pool. It remains closed due to devastating cuts by the Tories over 14 years to local councils like Bradford, and the false promises made by the previous conservative government for levelling up funding, which never materialised. This government, in contrast, has committed millions through the Pride in Place and is rebalancing money to councils like Bradford, giving more power and money to local communities.

I'd be keen if the Minister could say more about how Labour is strengthening the community right to buy, so making it easier for local communities to take on and run facilities like Bingley Pool. Turning to Shipley Town centre, Madam Deputy Speaker. Whilst there are some brilliant businesses, it was really neglected under the Tories. Vacant shops, many charity shops, banks closed, crime up, shoplifters free to commit crime with no consequence. I'd like to congratulate Bradford Council for delivering a fantastic upgrade to the Market Square, to this Labour Government for increasing neighbourhood policing, which led to a summer crackdown on street drinking.

New powers to crack down on retail crime. And Madam Deputy Speaker, unlike the previous speakers, we're seeing new pubs opening, the reconnection and Shipley just this weekend with successful owners Beth and Nathan, who already run a successful pub in Baildon. So I hope the Minister will agree with me that high streets like those in Shipley are on the up with a Labour government and a Labour council finally working together in Shipley, there's huge potential to increase footfall. It's well connected to Leeds and Bradford by train and now this Labour government are getting the trains back into public ownership.

We will see improved services and better affordability, but it's vital we also build more housing on brownfield sites like at the Riverside in Saltaire, the Old Cloth Hall in Baildon. So more people live near and on our high streets, converting excess commercial, retail and office space into much needed social and affordable homes. So I do hope the Minister will also set out how Homes England funding, funding and planning reforms will unlock these sites and stimulate growth in our high streets and reverse the situation under the Tory government, where we had so few homes, new homes built.

So to sum up, places and town centres like Bingley and Keighley and Shipley have huge potential. After 14 years of neglect and decline under the Tories, this government is supporting our high streets to thrive once again.
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Cameron Thomas Portrait Cameron Thomas MP (Tewkesbury, Liberal Democrat)
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Cameron Thomas.

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Madam Deputy Speaker, for 30 years. MJ's gym has been central to years. MJ's gym has been central to the. North Way and Tewkesbury communities. It's one of those gritty local gyms with a playlist gritty local gyms with a playlist 10,000 songs long, and where men and women of all ages train. Out a hard day's work. I met Chris for hard day's work. I met Chris for the first time a few months back. He tries to keep MJ's running in

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his spare time while he works as an electrician, because of decisions made by this government, He struggling to keep MJ's solvent. I don't want to lose MJ's and all of its history to another and all of its history to another sterile gym chain, will says that Cleave Bookshop is only viable in the current economic climate the current economic climate because it's kept afloat by online sales, and I don't want to lose Cleave Bookshop to another chain Cleave Bookshop to another chain store.

Lauren is sustaining bumpy land soft play using the wages she land soft play using the wages she earns from her full time job, as well as giving our children somewhere to play and build their social skills. She's employing social skills. She's employing young people in their first jobs. I've already spoken at length and I've already spoken at length and frequently in support of my hospitality sector. Needless to say, they need the government to change they need the government to change course to my high streets in Bishop's Cleeve, Tewkesbury and Winchcombe have soul, they have character and they're worth preserving.

But if the government will not change course, then we will lose them forever. Clearly, support for small businesses should not come at the cost of further cuts to public spending, as proposed in today's motion by the conservatives. None of us have any economic lessons to learn from the party, which drove our local services to ruin. Therefore, will the government take reasonable steps, such as increasing the digital service tax and the online gambling tax so that it can reverse its employers National insurance hike and create a new, lower rate Nick band to lower the cost of employing part time staff.



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Amanda Martin. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It does take some audacity. Or maybe it's amnesia. Madam Deputy maybe it's amnesia. Madam Deputy Speaker to the Conservative Party to bring forward a motion on our high streets. Given the absolute high streets. Given the absolute mess that they left them in 14 long, depressing years in government,
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Amanda Martin Portrait Amanda Martin MP (Portsmouth North, Labour)
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depressing years in government, they say, let's not. Let's look forward and not back. But those years cannot be wiped away by the people in my city. The cuts were too deep and the damage was too much. Portsmouth is a proud city, but Madam Deputy Speaker in Portsmouth North we've seen what neglect looks like up close. Once vibrant shopping, parades and community spaces have been left to decline under the conservatives watch. Alloway Avenue, London Road, North End, Cosham High Street and Hilsea shopping areas, to name a few.

Once bustling local centres have been blighted by empty or inappropriate shops selling counterfeit or stolen goods with vandalism and illegal employment. Local businesses tell me the same story again and again. Despite being the change, the opposition did nothing. Businesses closed, trades dropped, rents and rates remained high and footfall fell, and basic safety and cleanliness were just ignored. One shopkeeper in Cosham told me last summer we had three break ins in last year alone. He reported them but no one came.

The data from Portsmouth Neighbourhood Police backs that up. Record incidents of 30% increase between 2019 and 2023, in shoplifting and intimidating the local shop owners. Police officers were Madam Deputy Speaker doing their very best, but under the Tories, law and order was neglected, under-resourced and overstretched for far too long. But Madam Deputy Speaker, there's hope under this Labour government that's changing through safer streets, campaign and neighbourhood officers, we've targeted action in Portsmouth North, delivering with key crime areas dramatically seeing a downfall in crime and links with police and retail have improved, and the use of modern technology is rolling out.

The IUPAC UK pack being taken up in partnership with our high street neighbourhood officers like PC Ben and PC Hannah Keller need and deserve real credit for their tackling, anti-social behaviour and protecting our shopkeepers and residents. And it's a privilege to go out and work with them as they

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do their rounds. I thank the hon. Lady for. Portsmouth North giving way on

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Portsmouth North giving way on that point. She's absolutely right to to recognise the advance of named neighbourhood officers. Was named neighbourhood officers. Was she therefore give a congratulations to the conservative PCC Donna Jones, who actually

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brought that in before her government did? Amanda Martin I welcome the work

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Amanda Martin I welcome the work of my PCC, and particularly with the retail crime on the rolling out the retail crime on the rolling out of UK pack. Thank you. I also we do. Those police officers deserve a Those police officers deserve a real credit and with proper investment and community backing, they can finally do the job that they can finally do the job that the experts want. That's why these initiatives alongside the Pride in Place is so vital for my city.

Portsmouth North being awarded £20 million for Paulsgrove to breathe life back into a local high streets life back into a local high streets and communities is funding. Madam Deputy Speaker, that will go directly into regenerating community spaces, improving safety community spaces, improving safety and supporting the local economy and importantly, how and what it is spent on will be decided by the community. The people who know the area best. We're already seeing progress of a Labour government progress of a Labour government acting on behalf of our communities, in education, in our NHS and in our armed forces, and local residents have told me they finally feel hopeful that their neighbourhood will get the investment and respect it deserves and need.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I also want to pay tribute to my hon. Friend, the Member for Grimsby and Cleethorpes, whose outstanding campaign for the high street renewal has inspired so many of us. It is her work that has encouraged me to launch my own local initiative, the Back Our High Streets and Stop dodgy Shops campaign. This campaign is tackling an issue that has plagued communities like mine for far too long. The rise of so-called dodgy shops, unregulated outlets selling counterfeit goods, illegal vapes, massage parlours, barbers often operating outside proper licensing and safety standards and shirking their tax responsibilities, leaving it in an unfair playing field for

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those that do follow the rules. The Honourable. Lady Anna Dixon. I thank the hon. Lady for giving

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I thank the hon. Lady for giving way and she makes an excellent point about the number of sort of pop up shops and illegal traders. pop up shops and illegal traders. I'm currently running a petition about antisocial use of fireworks. Does she agree with me that more Does she agree with me that more needs to be done to stop the illegal sale of fireworks on the

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illegal sale of fireworks on the high street in these pop up shops? Amanda Martin absolutely. They would be along the lines of unregulated and potentially not unregulated and potentially not paying the taxes like other businesses that are running alongside in the same high street. Madam Deputy Speaker, these shops drive down the quality of our high streets, put legitimate traders out of business and create environments of business and create environments where anti-social behaviour can flourish. I'm working closely with the council's Trading Standards and Portsmouth police to take enforcement action, including raids and seizures.

We need to push and seizures. We need to push councils to use the new powers proposed in the new Planning and Infrastructure Bill to work with communities and take opportunities communities and take opportunities of compulsory purchase to replace those empty units with genuine local businesses and community spaces. This is about restoring pride, safety and opportunity to our local shopping areas. But our our local shopping areas. But our high streets aren't just about shops. In a changing world of retail, we can and should ensure that retail, leisure, hospitality, personal services and houses are together because high streets are places where people come together.

They are where people find friendship, conversation and connection, and supporting them is central to reducing vibrant, safe and welcoming communities. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, while conservative members talk today about reviving our high streets, it's a Labour government and a Labour MP that is actually doing it in my city, investing in people, working with SMEs, hospitality and leisure and rebuilding our communities, ensuring local pride has a national action. Before I finish, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to thank residents, volunteers, local Tradespersons, retail SME workers and community groups in Portsmouth who are out there every single day keeping our high streets alive.

Their pride and persistence are the heartbeat of our communities. And with this Labour government and two Labour MPs, they have finally partners in Westminster who will share their ambition, their pride and their passion in our city. And we're not stopping there because, Madam

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Deputy Speaker, we want to reach the heights of the City of Culture. Graham Stuart.

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Graham Stuart. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it's a pleasure to follow the hon. Lady whose passion I always admire, even if her arguments I rarely follow or agree with. Madam Deputy speaker, from the day you
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Graham Stuart Portrait Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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Deputy speaker, from the day you start your business until the day that you pass it on, Labour simply sees a target to tax. As members opposite have shown today, whereas conservatives see a dream to back, they make it harder to start, take more, take more from you as you grow and leave a bill, a tax bill for your children when you're gone on this side of the House. Madam Deputy Speaker, we back entrepreneurs. We give them the freedom to build the tools to invest and the chance to pass their success on to the next generation.

That, Madam Deputy Speaker, is what our plan will deliver to get Britain working again. Because starting a business is a leap of faith taken by someone with an idea and the determination to try to make it work. And conservatives understand that because many of us have actually started and run our own businesses, whereas sadly, just one Cabinet Minister can say the same. So it's not, I don't I think that members opposite sort of detest enterprise and business. They just don't understand it and they just see it as something which they must relentlessly tap.

In 14 years under the conservatives, the number of businesses grew by 1.1 million. We and we, Madam Deputy Speaker, on this side of the House, have built businesses so we know what it takes to make them grow. This government hasn't. And it shows schools in Beverley and Holderness. We all, I'm sure, across the house love going into our schools. Are the ones in Beverley and Holderness are brimming with budding entrepreneurs, young people full of ideas but lacking the tools to turn them into reality.

And research by the Federation of Small Businesses found that while 60% 60% of young

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people want to own a business, only 16% ever will. The hon. Member give way. Friend.

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Friend. Then I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way. The British Retail Consortium have warned that Retail Consortium have warned that £7 billion of costs have been put onto businesses because of National Insurance contributions by this government. And the Chancellor has asked you was to say, well, the NHS is working. Does she really think

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that hospital budget should rest on entrepreneurs in our constituencies? Graham Stuart well, you see it in speech after speech from members in speech after speech from members opposite. And perhaps it's because of the the careers they've had. They, they think the key to They, they think the key to unlocking the high street or indeed the wider economy is about public investment. It's not. It's about government getting out of the way. Of course, we need a facilitating local and national government, but the fundamentals are it's not it's not their money that businesses are not their money that businesses are allowed to have of.

It's not it's they're not their space which government allows them to occupy. government allows them to occupy. It's our space. It's the people's space. And government is there to facilitate and support humbly. And humility is something which the party opposite never seems to display when it comes to dealing display when it comes to dealing with business. All it ever does, all it ever does, is seek to tax it.

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But I will give way to the hon. Gentleman to whom I have a great deal of respect. Thank you for giving way. On the

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Thank you for giving way. On the basis of his argument, he must then support a rise in the national living wage. That is, a pure reform of a contract between the employer and the employee. And of course, go straight back into the local economy in the towns that he thinks about. Yeah.

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about. Yeah. And we did. We did, of course,

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And we did. We did, of course, lift the, the minimum wage by more than I think any other government. than I think any other government. So but if you go too far and if you do what this government did as well with young people and you put them even though they have no experience, you put them at the same cost as older people. Funnily enough, they don't get a job. And of course, don't get a job. And of course, members opposite trumpet with the employment rights bill.

Oh, we're we're providing all these rights for workers. That's not much use if you're pushed out of the labour market. And I thought the party opposite was supposed to care about opposite was supposed to care about the marginalised, well, the marginalised, the people who are missing out. Not your fat union missing out. Not your fat union backed workers getting vast pay, vast cost. Well, I'll give you vast cost. Well, I'll give you sitting there are so there are the billions that were spent paying off the union paymasters of the Labour the union paymasters of the Labour government, while young people are once again disadvantaged, while people who are far away from mental health or other issues far away from the labour market are pushed further away from it.

And if you come to my constituency, if you come down to Kilnsey just above Spurn Point, you can't get much more rural, you can't get much more isolated. And if you go there and you go to the the pub, the Crown and anchor there, and you meet the publicans, you find their taxes because of this government, not because of 14 years of the conservatives. This government has increased the taxes on that pub, and that means that they aren't taking on a young person who would have had their first chance.

And they I know those those guys are absolutely committed to finding people far away from the labour market, providing a nurturing environment and helping them get into work. And that dream is being killed by the party opposite. I spoke to Vicky Foster, careers leader at Withernsea High School, who shared how valuable the right business support in schools can be and how much more they could do with. They had the resources to match and that's why our plan will launch business challenges in school, introduced entrepreneur led mentoring schemes and provide seed funding from government so that we can unlock the potential of the next generation.

There is a role for government, but it's facilitating and it is got to make sure it doesn't crush and oppress business. Instead, it needs to be supporting it instead. Starting a business is one thing, but keeping it going is another. Around 60% of businesses fail within the first three years, so they do need our support because when Toll Gavel in Beverley or Marketplace in Hedon thrive, then that creates jobs, boosts spending and drives stronger growth. For Britain, the party opposite just doesn't seem to get it.

And to listen to the speeches today, there seems to be no limit to the amount of tax which they think can be imposed on business, which, as long as it's channelled into public investment in their in their particular constituencies, they think that's going to grow the economy. You can have a vast number of public investments, which you can come in here and trumpet and name. But if the overall position is that young people are further away from the labour market overall than they were before, if this country sees entrepreneurs and people who are going to have high growth businesses moving abroad, if high net worth individuals are dissuaded from working hard in this

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country or worse still, move abroad, then all of us are poorer and our high streets in particular. Joe Powell.

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Joe Powell. Madam Deputy. Speaker, my residents care deeply about our high streets. From
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Joe Powell Portrait Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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government. Empty units, rows of slot machine casinos unconstrained. The rise of vape shops, candy shops, Harry Potter shops, barbers squeezing out legitimate businesses, banks closing with no coherent banks closing with no coherent government response, the slashing of neighbourhood police budgets, the rise of shoplifting, attacks on the rise of shoplifting, attacks on retail staff and, of course, wages flatlining for a decade, less money flatlining for a decade, less money in people's pockets to spend on the high streets. Thanks to the mini budget and even Madam Deputy budget and even Madam Deputy Speaker, snail farms are cropping up across the country, revealed by London Centric.

To avoid the advantage of of tax loopholes. Now a symbol of the Tory economy. If a symbol of the Tory economy. If ever there was one sluggish, brittle and hard to swallow brittle and hard to swallow molluscs taking up retail space and pushing out legitimate businesses. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, change is So, Madam Deputy Speaker, change is needed and change is coming. And it's not just coming from the government, it's coming from government, it's coming from communities. I want to pay tribute to the residents and councillors from Earls Court, who joined forces from Earls Court, who joined forces with me to block a 24 over seven licence for an adult gaming centre.

That is a precedent I hope will apply to other casinos and slot machine proposals, and I welcome the new powers the government are introducing to say no to new betting shops, vape shops and others that degrade our high streets. The planning system can prevent those outfits opening in the first place, and I'm also encouraged by Treasury colleagues looking at how to step up enforcement. The National Crime Agency's operation has hit hundreds of barber shops and other cash intensive businesses suspected of illicit activity, and I was astonished that the shadow Secretary of State dismissed these arguments on tax evasion, given the harms they cause legitimate businesses.

At one end of the spectrum, we have businesses that are linked to serious organised crime, doing trade, hiding the proceeds of the drug trade and washing that money through our high streets. At the other end, VAT evasion, business rate evasion and dodgy trading practices. And I commend Westminster City Council, who cracked down on the candy shops on Oxford Street and across our city, a pioneering council supporting our high streets where their predecessor failed. But Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to make the House aware of a particularly nefarious practice that has caught on.

A shady organisation pops up with directors who have no idea what they are in control of the organisation, then fleeces the taxpayer, sells the public a dodgy product and before they can be held accountable, the leadership changes and they reappear under a new brand. This is not just a Conservative Party strategy. Madam Deputy Speaker, but the practice of phoenixing and I welcome the Treasury Ministers commitment in previous questions to go further on this practice, boosting HMRC to include community harm in their evaluation of whether to take on cases and encouraging the Insolvency Service to do more to get back that taxpayer's money.

Adding those practices on enforcement and planning to the suite of other things this government are doing to support our high streets is the way we will work with our communities to bring

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those high streets back to life and revitalise our communities. Here. Rebecca Smith.

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Rebecca Smith. You, Madam Deputy Speaker, Napoleon's famous remark England is a nation of shopkeepers was meant a nation of shopkeepers was meant as an insult. However, for many of us up and down these isles, the high street and its many small businesses are a source of immense pride. My constituency is home to among the highest concentrations of small businesses in the country, with more than 3000 operating locally, and whilst not all are on locally, and whilst not all are on the high street, they are all part of the entrepreneurial ecosystem that makes up the local economy.

Now, I've seen first hand the Now, I've seen first hand the sacrifices that SME owners right across my constituency make day in, day out. The sleepless nights as day out. The sleepless nights as financial pressures hits the long hours away from family working 6 or 7 days a week, the herculean
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Rebecca Smith Portrait Rebecca Smith MP (South West Devon, Conservative)
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7 days a week, the herculean efforts to make sure you might even take a holiday, the challenges of the self-employed, the sole traders, the family business, the small team. For over 30 years, my parents had their own small business. It's called mainly kitchens. They made huge sacrifices. Dad worked six days a week. They survived the recessions of the 1980s, the financial crash in the early noughties and because of their financial prudence, had a business to sell to my brother when dad retired.

Britain is built off the back of small businesses, like those in my constituency and in my family. They account for 99.2% of the population. Business population employs 16.9 million Britons, 60% of private sector jobs and contribute £2.8 trillion to the UK economy. And you will find many of these businesses on high streets like the Broadway and the Ridgeway. In my constituency, businesses like therapy hair and beauty boutique owned by Effy and her husband Daniel. The new Plymstock post office, which postmaster Stephen Boyd has opened this month, taking a huge risk at a time of great uncertainty.

And Tubs Pharmacy in Newton Ferrers. However, you will also find many of the high street businesses like surplus farm stores owned by Scott. A classic example of a business that is a critical part of the local rural economy. A business that, because of the Labour government's budget decisions, has had to stop hiring new staff as employment costs rise. Added to this, they're also experiencing a double of their business rates, not the reduction that was promised by the Chancellor. And for the avoidance of doubt, the jobs that are not being given are to the young people that we've heard much about this afternoon.

However, the contribution of small businesses cannot be measured purely in pound sterling. Our high streets form the centre of our communities, places where generations have shopped, socialised and worked. And for many, the decline of the high street is the clearest sign of the nation's decline. It is surprising, then, that this Labour government seems so determined to kill Britain's entrepreneurial spirit. The Labour government's business rates reform is nowhere to be seen. Subsequent Treasury reforms have raised concerns that larger businesses, which act as anchor tenants by drawing people to town centres, may be forced to close, impacting smaller retailers by cutting the number of visitors to high streets.

This was compounded by the Chancellor's £40 billion tax rate, funded off the back of hard working small business owners, thanks to the small business rates relief the previous government brought in the third of properties, a third of properties were taken out of business rates altogether. Progress at this Labour government seems intent on undoing. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, last week I visited Bedford, UK and Leigh Mill and they raised with me serious concerns about the knock on effects of these rising costs to food wholesale wholesalers in particular.

This is important because wholesalers play a key role in connecting food producers with local shops, restaurants and public services. The pressures they face from increased operating costs and changes to business rates risk driving prices higher throughout the entire food supply chain, ultimately placing additional strain on small business owners and putting our high streets at risk. If this is not taken seriously by the government, the impact on food costs and inflation will be huge. So that is the one thing I'd love to hear from the Minister this afternoon.

In terms of food wholesalers in particular, what is he going to do at the big end to make sure that our high streets you.

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Madam Deputy Speaker. It's unusual that I actually find myself agreeing with the hon. Member, the agreeing with the hon. Member, the shadow Business Secretary. It is high time that we discuss our local high streets in this place. I would gently say, however, that doing so requires us to look back at the record of the party opposite during their time in government. And their time in government. And frankly, when it comes to our high streets, it's a record they should be ashamed of.

To come to the House
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Elsie Blundell Portrait Mrs Elsie Blundell MP (Heywood and Middleton North, Labour)
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today with feigned indignation and refusing to accept any responsibility for the damage they have done, will really get under the skin of my constituents. 14 years of hollow funding commitments, anti-social behaviour out of control, and the scars of neglect visible across our high streets. And they instead choose to come here to talk down the Employment Rights Bill, a critical piece of legislation that will protect the very workers that have a stake in our high streets. If the party opposite are satisfied with workers like those at Tetrosyl in Greater Manchester, who are facing the prospect of fire and rehire as we speak, remaining in deeply insecure employment, while they should just come out and say it.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the people of Heywood and Middleton North are resilient. They are grafters and they care deeply about their local community. They know that the challenges facing our high streets won't be overcome overnight, and that for us to rebuild that image of a bustling local centre, an image that invokes a sense of real pride, their first must come investment not just of capital, but of responsibility and confidence too. And this is where we need to meet people halfway. Too many people today look at their high streets and see landscape.

They no longer recognise what we once saw the trading of local produce. In recent years, we've seen the proliferation of illicit goods which not only perpetuate anti-social behaviour on our streets, but they also run down public health and corrode our towns from the inside. But my constituents refuse to buy into the defeatism that parties opposite feed off. We recognise the strengths and assets that underpin our diverse communities, and I am proud to stand alongside this Labour government that is finally providing the means for local people to take back their high streets.

I am, I am delighted that my borough is a beneficiary of Pride in Place impact funding, and I thank the Ministers for their engagement with me in recent weeks, I was proud to host a community meeting at Burnside Community Centre in Middleton, where I heard decisive calls from local people in relation to the changes that they want to see for their local amenities and their high streets. And unlike the last government, which deliberately moved money away from areas of most acute need, this Labour government is working in tandem with local councils and local people to revive the assets that our towns are built on.

This investment, which should be allocated to Middleton, coupled with the community right to buy and compulsory purchase powers, will allow communities to seize untapped assets and turn around shops, pubs and buildings in disrepair. We are empowering local councils to block unwanted shops, from vape shops to dodgy barbers, and this government understands the challenge before us, the shattered trust that we need to rebuild rather than capitulate to the declining narratives that suit the parties opposite all too well. We are cracking on and delivering change and coming at this from all sides, through tangible and lasting investment, from national government to the cutting of local red tape, and through the talent, grit and innovation of the people and businesses I represent, I know that the best days of our high streets lie ahead.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Adam Dance thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, I want to raise the concerns of fantastic
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Adam Dance Portrait Adam Dance MP (Yeovil, Liberal Democrat)
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the concerns of fantastic businesses in Yeovil constituency. The current government's employment National insurance increase will damage high street businesses. Sean, who runs Lanes Hotel in West Coker, put it better than I ever could at a time when we needed help. The Chancellor has chosen to give us another kicking. We are sick of it. That is why we Liberal Democrats oppose this unfair jobs tax that has hit small businesses in rural areas like mine hard. Andrew, who was the landlord of the Cathead Inn in Chiselborough, which has sadly now closed, wrote to me to point out that the business rates system is fundamentally outdated.

He is right and the changes to this system keeps getting kicked down the road. I urge the government to replace the broken business rates with a community land owner levy as soon as possible. The system would be based purely on the value of the land where the business is located. Shifting responsibility from the tax from the businesses to the commercial landlords. This would not be a debate without without high streets, without mentioning banks and banking hubs. Why we are able to get one in Crewkerne in my constituency, Chard and Ilminster were denied banking hubs despite having the same needs, in some cases greater.

That is why assessments criteria for banking hubs must include the need for in-person banking services and financial advice. The government must also be a bit more ambitious and push for far more than 300 banking hubs over five years. That is hardly any, considering there are 650 constituencies. Small businesses in the area, including the Acorn Cap, have told me that anti-social behaviour in Yeovil is negatively affecting footfall and trade. That is why we need government to invest more in community policing in rural areas.

Rural areas seem to get missed off the list. We've heard that many times today. It has been overlooked for far too long. Finally, for rural communities like these in Yeovil, a huge issue nowadays is just being able to get to your local high street. Public transport is a nightmare and constant issues with the counselling of number less and bus shows this. That is why most people drive but parking is also an issue. Local business owners like Jane, who owns cafe 50 and the owner of the Mad Hatter, are really worried about the

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potential closure of car parks in Yeovil and its impact on footfall and revenue. Will you give way. On that point? Of course.

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On that point? Of course. I thank the honourable. Member for giving way. I have a similar problem in Farnham where.

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similar problem in Farnham where. We we are being hit. By the the headwinds of what's going on nationally. But locally, the Farnham Infrastructure programme means that there is disruption. Now we all welcome the outcome. But what we have a problem with is Lib Dem run Waverley with is Lib Dem run Waverley Council whacking up the car. Parking charges which deterring people. Can you have a word with

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people. Can you have a word with that? Thank you for your comments. One of the reasons that they're proposing building car parks on, on proposing building car parks on, on some building housing on some of our car parks is because of the underfunding in rural areas from the government. I, I do agree with you. Parking charges are a problem. We're having the same effect in Somerset, where they're having to Somerset, where they're having to be levelled out because of the unitary council which your government pushed on Somerset.

So we're having to. Sorry. With a conservative government pushed on conservative government pushed on on Somerset Council parking is, is is a is a massive issue. And charges of course do sometimes charges of course do sometimes deter people coming to our constituency. I know this is not the council's intention, so I urge the council's intention, so I urge them to take on these concerns and think again. But Somerset also needs more money from central government for better rural public transport and roads.

For too long our high streets have been left to decline. That must change. Thank

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you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Adam Thompson. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. My constituents in Erewash, like like many around the country, are tired of watching country, are tired of watching their high streets decline. They're tired of seeing good local businesses close, replaced by dodgy
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Adam Thompson Portrait Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)
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businesses close, replaced by dodgy barbers, vape shops, betting shops, or in some cases worse. Just nothing at all. Completely left to rot. The decline in our high streets has been a political choice, one that was knowingly made by the Conservative Party over 14 years. They stripped our local councils of power, defunded them and prevented them from intervening on their own high streets. The conservatives have brought this Opposition Day debate forward on an issue that they themselves powerfully undermined for over a decade.

I'm very proud, though, Madam Speaker, that this government is taking a different approach through the Pride in Place funding. Many residents in my constituency are receiving £20 million to invest in their community over ten years. I met with Cotmanhay residents at a community meeting weekend before last, and I was struck by their enthusiasm and their general desire to improve our community. Many people in Cotmanhay are brimming with ideas on how to revitalise the area. For the first time, they are being listened to and given the power to make the changes that they want to see in their area.

I'm also pleased that councils will finally be given greater power to say no to fake barbers, shops and bookies that we all frankly know are covers for the drugs industry. Councils will be able to seize boarded up shops, save derelict pubs and create space for genuine, innovative businesses that revive our high streets. Madam Deputy Speaker, strong local government and community empowerment are the best ways that we can revitalise our high streets. Residents ultimately know best what their

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towns need and I will gladly give one Gideon Amos. I'm very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene. Will he agree that when intervene. Will he agree that when it comes to illegal trading, we should also be looking at the police having powers to close down police having powers to close down illegal shop trading immediately, rather than having to take lengthy processes through the courts before

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processes through the courts before those shops can be closed down? Adam Thompson. I thank the hon. Member for raising his point, and I think that's probably a question for the ministerial team more than it is myself. But but he makes a very reasonable point. I'm extremely proud, Madam Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker, to work with Labour controlled Erewash Borough Council controlled Erewash Borough Council in particular. They've been taking a lot of firm action recently on our declining high streets since taking control of the council just two and a half years ago.

The Labour council has been tackling absentee landlords and negligent property owners, including those responsible for the decaying Wig Falls building on Bath Street in Ilkeston. Decrepit for over 20 years. At this point, the owners have been given a clear choice have been given a clear choice invest in their properties with council support and show pride in our town centres or face enforcement through a section 215 clean up order. My colleagues on the council have also massively the council have also massively expanded their shop sign grant, offering local businesses up to £2,000 for new signage.

This scheme has been extended beyond our immediate local centres, beyond the hubs in Ilkeston and Long Eaton, including Cotmanhay, Kirk Hallam and Sawley. And this is going to help us brighten our towns and villages and support small independent businesses across the borough with direct intervention. The measures, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this government is taking to empower local councils and finally end the scandal of underfunding in councils across the North and the Midlands, is going to strengthen the hand of dedicated local authorities like Erewash and communities such as Cotmanhay in the fight against empty town centres.

It's time, Madam Deputy Speaker, for us to focus on innovation over stagnation on the grassroots, over national diktat and on pride over neglect. And I am deeply proud that this is the Labour government's approach.
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Damian Hinds Portrait Rt Hon Damian Hinds MP (East Hampshire, Conservative)
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Damian Hinds Deputy. natural when we have these debates that we hear phrases repeatedly like lifeblood and beating heart, because I think colleagues across the House, we love our town and village centres. They are the essence of our local communities. For me, that means principle towns like Alton and Petersfield, substantial villages like Lewes and former Clanfield, Horndean and Rowlands Castle. And why do we care? Well, of course, it's important to have the provision of goods and services to our local residents, but mostly it's because these are the places that bring people together.

They stop isolation, they form social bonds. They. They give life. They give form to the idea of community. And there's lots of different things you need for a very successful high street. There's the physical environment, the public realm that people have talked about, the aesthetic appeal. I pay tribute to those who give of their time voluntarily to maintain and improve that landscapers and litter pickers, like from the Alton Society, the Petersfield Society and the brilliantly named rubbish. A good events calendar can really make a difference.

I think you'd go a long way and I think you know this Madam Deputy Speaker to beat a an events calendar such as that of Alton in Hampshire. Cultural assets like Petersfield Museum. In fact, just in our select committee, the DCMS Select Committee, this morning we were hearing about the role of heritage buildings in creating a sense of place initiatives that bring people into the town centre like dementia friendly Alton and Health on the High Street, and a wider set of community facilities including libraries and nurseries.

In fact, anything that just brings people to that specific place. But most of all, it is about people and it is about the shops, cafes, pubs and restaurants they work in now. The Great British High Street still has a lot going for it, but it also faces some very difficult headwinds, principally about out of town shopping and about online and home delivery. And for the avoidance of doubt, I do not blame the Labour government for either of those two things. They are forces that we have been dealing with as a country.

Indeed, the world has been dealing with for quite some time. You add to that more recently, indirectly, the effect on banking, as a couple of colleagues have mentioned, and I,

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I will give way to the hon. Lady. I'm very lucky in Tiverton and Minehead to have a thriving high street in Minehead, and one street in Minehead, and one particular reason for that is the strength of the independent Traders.

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strength of the independent Traders. And it was obvious when I did my. Small business. Saturday wandering around that that's what makes Minehead High Street particularly so successful and is a thriving part of my constituency. Would the hon. Member

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agree? I do agree, in fact, you know, I, I largely agree. In truth, it's a I largely agree. In truth, it's a blend. So actually having individual distinctive independent individual distinctive independent traders is what sets all our towns apart, makes them unique and we're very proud of them. But also very proud of them. But also actually customers want both that and and and some brand name retailers as well. And there's retailers as well. And there's nothing wrong with being a brand name with being a brand name retailer.

I think the I think that the secret comes from having the combination. I was just saying that on banking. I just want to join with what other colleagues have with what other colleagues have said about the need, and I think it's actually the FCA that sets the criteria, the need to review those criteria. As this development in banking goes on. Further, we need to make sure that towns, for example, the size of Petersfield in my constituency, do have a five day a week, at least five day a week business banking facility constantly, and I hope the government working with the FCA can look at that look with these headwinds that are are high streets face, obviously the most most important thing is we need more people to come into those places.

And I think efforts to to create more residential accommodation in town centres. And the hon. Gentleman gentleman from Oldham West talks about this, I think are useful and maximising use of brownfield land. But also, of course, most people coming into town centres are coming in for a purpose and we need to be hospitable to them. And walking and cycling are great, but we must remember that most people still coming in in an area like mine coming into a town, are coming in by car, and we must make sure that it works for them to.

Of course

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they will give away. Well. The hon. Member is making a very impressive. Speech. But cultural

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Speech. But cultural institutions are also important for our high street. And I note it's the 200th anniversary of the death the 200th anniversary of the death of Jane Austen, who lived in Chawton House in his constituency

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Chawton House in his constituency in Alton. And hopefully that will well. I'm very makes a very good point. I might also return the favour by mentioning the Robert Bolt Theatre, which I think is in his constituency. Of course, colleagues constituency. Of course, colleagues will know the man for all seasons, and the hon. Gentleman from Wythenshawe and Sale East is himself something of a man for all himself something of a man for all seasons. But as well, Madam Deputy Speaker, as bringing more people Speaker, as bringing more people into the into the town centre.

I think the number one imperative right now is about addressing the right now is about addressing the costs of doing business and the cost of employing people. Now, there are good arguments against there are good arguments against every tax and any anyone who's ever worked for the Treasury will know that there is a good argument against every tax, and that's why against every tax, and that's why you end up having a blend of lots and lots of different taxes, but business rates. Madam Deputy business rates.

Madam Deputy Speaker, are an especially bad tax because it is a fixed cost that you are imposing on that business that are imposing on that business that makes it harder to turn a profit. But also, crucially, it deters new people from coming into business. And in the case of retail hospitality, we must remember that as well as being as well as their role as business, they're also volume employers. So two of the three biggest volume employers in the country. So as well as being the home of workers, they are also a big source of the customers who are going to who are going to use other people's businesses.

Now, there's been a lot of bit of talk earlier about the National Living Wage. And so of course, it's good that the national Living Wage goes up. The point is trying to do that at the same time as other things that are imposing further costs on business and making it harder to employ people. You will see an effect. And we are already seeing a damage, not in terms of mass layoffs, but in terms of those marginal hiring decisions to not take on some Saturday help, not offer some extra hours.

In fact, we see pubs in some in constituencies closing earlier than they would do ordinarily, and it's all going to become worse, I'm afraid. Madam Deputy Speaker, with the workers, right. With the employment rights bill, with the biggest impact being on those furthest from or newest to

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the labour market. And I encourage the government to think again. And now with an immediate three

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And now with an immediate three minute time limit. Josh Fenton-Glynn. Yeah. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker.
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Josh Fenton-Glynn Portrait Josh Fenton-Glynn MP (Calder Valley, Labour)
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Calder Valley is a string of communities from Brighouse to Elland, from Hebden Bridge to Todmorden. Each town has its own character, pride shaped by their high street. But after 14 years of conservative government, too many of our local high streets were left in decline. In Calderdale we lost nearly a quarter of our pubs between 2010 and 2018. Across the country, more than 10,000 hospitality venues closed. That was before the pandemic and before the cost of living crisis. The conservatives had chance after chance to deal with this, which is why them debating on how we're best going to clean up their mess came as a bit of a shock today.

The voices of local businesses tell the same story, and my business survey, 85% of high street businesses said there wasn't enough support under the last government. The conservatives fell asleep at the wheel, too busy fighting among themselves, swapping leaders every year with a new business Minister or community Minister every five minutes. But the world has changed and the high street is changing with it. Internet retailers are hoovering up customers, but successful businesses are those that can innovate, that can offer value creation and experiences, the entrepreneurial spirit.

But to deliver that, we need a government who talks to small businesses and not just the big actors. Calder Valley is one of the most entrepreneurial places in the country. We have the highest business density in West Yorkshire, and over the last five years, people have created 6.5% more businesses, well above the national average, a testament to the character of my community. But instead of backing this energy, the Tories left productivity to stagnate, costs to spiral, and small businesses to struggle on their own.

Nowhere is that more clear on how than on highways up and down high streets, up and down the country. Too many people, the story of their town centre is boarded up shops, and if they're lucky, they replaced by vape shops and bookies. Yes, please.

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I thank you. I thank the hon. Member for giving way and it's unfortunately a very similar story. In parts of my constituency.

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In parts of my constituency. Does he agree with me that it's really striking in this debate, the one word we haven't heard from the party opposite that everything

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party opposite that everything they've done is sorry. Absolutely. A complete lack of contrition about the conservative contrition about the conservative legacy of neglect. The Tories let our valued pubs and shops closed. I our valued pubs and shops closed. I was once explaining to an American friend they have a different culture there. The difference between pubs and bars. A bar is between pubs and bars. A bar is just somewhere you go to drink. A pub is your community living room and that's why this Labour government is giving communities a right to buy a much loved pub, a post office or community hall that's under threat.

Local people that's under threat. Local people can step in and save businesses, something pioneered by the unique, then unique community ownership then unique community ownership scheme that took over the Fox and Goose in Hebden Bridge. In my constituency, this Labour government is cutting red tape, tackling late payments so that businesses can focus on serving businesses can focus on serving customers, not fighting to survive. customers, not fighting to survive. Bath. And it's not just that the vast majority of our high street businesses in my survey said that businesses in my survey said that they want to grow and they can with the right support.

They told me that that they chose to be in Calder Valley because the brilliant community spirit that makes our place is special. It's that same spirit that Sally Wainwright has put on our screens with Happy Valley and Riot Women. And and I know that every community around this house has its own story, its own community spirit, and its own pride. Labour is backing that pride. This Labour government knows that local communities matter and that requires real capital, not failed platitudes from across across the house.

This is about pride. Pride in towns, pride in communities, pride in place. The conservatives left our high streets to die. Labour will bring them back to life, town by town, community by community, across Calder Valley and across the country. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
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Gregory Stafford Portrait Gregory Stafford MP (Farnham and Bordon, Conservative)
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Yeah.

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Three Stafford. Madam Deputy. Speaker. Picture this. Downing Street. A hub of.

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Activity. Alive with purpose, people. Moving with intent, heated debate. Entrepreneurship at every

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debate. Entrepreneurship at every turn. Now you're looking confused. Madam Deputy Speaker. Because I'm not talking about the Downing Street hearing, SW1.

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the Downing Street hearing, SW1. I'm talking about. Downing Street in. Farnham, the start of the High Street in Farnham, where, I have.

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Street in Farnham, where, I have. To say. The most heated debate is over whether the Farnham. Infrastructure project.

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Will ever end and the concerns about the local Lib Dems whacking car parking charges. Up at the. story.

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story. The debate. Is about. How they're going. To. Survive the headwinds that this government has thrown.

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government has thrown. Against them in. Tax rises time and time again, because from hospitality to leisure and.

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hospitality to leisure and. Farnham. Hazelmere, Liphook. And the new town. Centre in Bordon. Are hives.

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Are hives.

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Of business activity. A wonderful constituency of Bromley A wonderful constituency of Bromley and Biggin Hill also houses many SMEs and they are telling me that they are being punished because of the irresponsible decisions taken by this Labour government. Yeah, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The truth, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that Labour do not have the backing of small and medium sized businesses because they are stifling growth with their costly net zero commitments with layers of red tape, changes to the living wage, cuts to business rate relief, the employment rights bill and higher National Insurance contributions.

This is a toxic cocktail designed to choke off enterprise and ambition. Now, the conservatives have a very good record in supporting local businesses. Just think back to the pandemic, where we delivered 100% business rates relief for many businesses. And indeed, when we left office last year, 75% business rate relief. Yet what did Labour do? As soon as they came in, they slashed it down to just 40%. This is absolutely crippling for small businesses in my constituency, and which is why I'm really proud and really pleased that we have announced that the abolition of business rates altogether, meaning that nearly a quarter of a million businesses are going to benefit.

It's financed by the Golden Rule, and it's responsible, sustainable and most importantly, pro-growth. Now, I think one hon. Member over there argued that removing the rates will let landlords raise rents, but that assumes a balanced market. The reality is oversupply, retail space outstripping demand. So abolishing business rates won't drive up. Rents will make high streets more sustainable. The Brightwells development in Farnham proves the point in my constituency. And when my right hon. Friend, the Leader of the Opposition, visited my constituency last week, we met Steve Hamilton's.

We met Mario at Serena's and Julian at the Castle Park. All three said the same thing. Business rates are crippling. HMRC red tape is growing and energy bills are too high. And that's why I'm delighted that we have got a plan to scrap the business rates and cut energy bills for these small businesses. Across my constituency in Bordon, for example. We are working intensely to make sure that that that new high street, that new town centre can thrive and we are making progress.

But that is going to be undermined by this government's attack on business. And these are not just businesses Madam Deputy Speaker, they are the heartbeat of our community. They train young people, they create jobs and they invest in the place they call home. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm afraid, as I've said, the disconnect that Labour shows nationally is echoed by the local Liberal Democrats in my area. They simply do not understand the struggles that our high streets are facing under this government, and therefore have no empathy for our local businesses.

Madam Deputy Speaker high streets are not just the commercial zones, they are social and the social and economic soul of our towns. Supporting them requires a government willing to protect the essential services, invest in rural areas and cut through the bureaucracy that holds small business back. Conservatives understand that if you back ambition, you build prosperity. If you bury in bureaucracy, you destroy it. Our high streets and communities they serve deserve

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better than that. Madam Deputy Speaker, Polly Billington. Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful, in particular, to see the Member for Beverley and Holderness to be back in his place, because I was particularly struck because I was particularly struck by the significant intellectual differences that I think people of us on this side of the House would have with him about the importance of the public realm and investment in our communities in order for those places to flourish. I think those places to flourish. I think it is true that most of us on this side of the House would understand that we cannot look to the horizon that we cannot look to the horizon and seize those opportunities and entrepreneurial ism unless we are secure in ourselves and our
16:24
Polly Billington Portrait Ms Polly Billington MP (East Thanet, Labour)
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secure in ourselves and our communities and have those assets available. That is why it is important for the investment in our National Health Service. There has been no assessment from the party opposite about the importance or the potential costs to business, or the actual cost to business of days off due to sickness, the long waiting list that have caused insecurity and uncertainty in small businesses in my community. Which means that that increases costs in staff absences and indeed pressure on management.

It is important for us to have security as well as flexibility in our employment market. Indeed, small businesses such as Carlisle Commons, who runs the Help the Happy Business School, has said herself that the move to in our Employment Rights Bill is a step in the right direction in terms of raising standards of employment. I know responsible business owners want to be able to make sure that they can recruit and retain staff, and that is vital in small communities like mine, where our our high streets have been

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hollowed out and give way. Thank you. I wonder if my hon. Friend thinks that those on the benches thinks that those on the benches opposite could learn from that not very famous left winger, Henry Ford, who put up his workers wages in

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order that they could afford to buy his cars. I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. I think, indeed, contribution. I think, indeed, there are other aspects of some of the things that the consequences of the last 14 years need to be seen when we look at what we have and what we're dealing with in our high streets. Retail crime. I'm sorry to see that the the Member for see that the the Member for Chingford is not in his place because he spoke strongly about the consequences of shoplifting.

consequences of shoplifting. Shoplifting, madam Deputy speaker. That rose by 70% under the last That rose by 70% under the last conservative government. 2000 incidents a day in 2003 to to 2024. incidents a day in 2003 to to 2024. I think that is a record that rather than them complaining about what is happening now, they need to what is happening now, they need to recognise that they are significantly responsible. And I know that there is a significant issue about energy costs. It's one issue about energy costs.

It's one of the things that is raised quite often with with me from my small businesses in my constituency. businesses in my constituency. What's interesting is the reversal of the commitment to net zero on the part of the benches. Opposite the part of the benches. Opposite means that they are risking a shift away from renewables, and that would that and renewables will help us to shift off the gas price. The Member for Beverley and Holderness should know that. Well, the reality is that public realm matters.

When you're talking about making sure that you have a thriving high street. Madam Deputy Speaker, fewer buses in places like we have seen bus services cut dramatically, that with 7 million bus miles in Kent alone since 2020, fewer police ends up with the kind of situations we've had insecure work with low

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pay and fire and rehire. Thank you. Of course you can give way. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Would she agree with me giving way. Would she agree with me that in coastal communities like Scarborough, who's benefited from the Safer Streets initiative, where the Safer Streets initiative, where we've seen incidents of anti-social behaviour dropped by 23% this year behaviour dropped by 23% this year compared to the previous summer? Would she agree with me that by tackling anti-social behaviour, the Labour government is breathing new life into our high streets and

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life into our high streets and neighbourhoods? I agree with my hon. Friend and indeed what has been striking I indeed what has been striking I have seen with my community is that it has been the local social energy of our of our businesses, particularly in Ramsgate, where they are coming together to help tackle anti-social behaviour, work tackle anti-social behaviour, work with the police and bear down on some of the worst excesses of the consequences of of the last 14 consequences of of the last 14 years.

And I think we also need to be aware of some of the consequences for small businesses consequences for small businesses of the fear and uncertainty brought on by the chaos of Brexit. The botched Brexit deal has had a direct impact on my community, particularly when we have seen the loss of our language schools in places like Ramsgate and places like Ramsgate and Broadstairs. Not all of them, but some of them have been impacted. That reduces the footfall on our high street. That is indeed a direct consequence of failures by the the party opposite.

Now when you have a Ramsgate High street, for example, has 24% vacancy rate. I mentioned that before when I intervened on one of my one of my hon. Friends, the British Property Association. When was confronted with that statistic, suggested that that meant that the people who owned them were simply economically irrational. Well, there seemed to be a lot of economic irrationality, which needs to be countered by people who understand the importance of of shaping our places. Hence our community. Compulsory auction leases the powers for local authorities like planet to control the proliferation of vape shops and gambling centres.

Indeed, there would be a greater appetite and I'm sure the Minister will note my concern about this for compulsory purchase. If we had a better funding settlement for places like Thanet when those things come to pass, and of course we need to reform business rates, we know that that is disproportionately impacting on the hospitality enterprises in places like mine, which of course rely significantly on that seasonal tourist economy. But again, may I just emphasise the importance of the community themselves to be able to shape the consequences of that shape.

The high streets themselves from Ramsgate space Margate Town Action

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Group. Order. Order order! Gagan Mohindra. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As many.

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Have said already today, our high streets are the heart of our communities. From small retail and hospitality businesses, allowing people the opportunity to own their
16:30
Gagan Mohindra Portrait Mr Gagan Mohindra MP (South West Hertfordshire, Conservative)
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people the opportunity to own their own business, to post offices and pharmacies where the vulnerable can go to see a familiar face and support to our pubs where people have gathered together there for years. Our high streets give us everything we need. We must be supporting them, not restricting them. I spend much of my time in South West Hertfordshire on local high streets, hearing first hand from many business owners about the struggles that they are facing due to Labour's increase in National Insurance contributions and the worries about the upcoming Employment Rights Bill.

Will it

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give way? Of course. Will I thank the hon. Member for giving way, and he's talking very eloquently about the problems. One eloquently about the problems. One of my constituents said to me, and he's a publican. He said that actually at the moment it is worse than Covid because under Covid at least, there was financial support. Now pubs and other retail and hospitality businesses are being left out to dry.

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left out to dry. My hon. Makes an excellent point. The small businesses that I speak to say they feel abandoned by this to say they feel abandoned by this government. They are facing high energy bills and rent and poor footfall. They have been harmed by Labour's decisions facing ever growing worries. With the upcoming budget later this month. In terms of hospitality, we already know of hospitality, we already know that hospitality is struggling. 1 in 5 High Street premises are currently empty, with 100,000 currently empty, with 100,000 hospitality jobs lost since Labour's budget.

Two thirds of these job losses were between the these job losses were between the ages of 18 to 24 year olds. This is simply not sustainable. Business owners do not want to see this owners do not want to see this happen, but they have no choice. A third of businesses are reducing their opening hours, as they simply their opening hours, as they simply cannot afford to staff up, such as the kitchen in my constituency, who warned me of the job losses that warned me of the job losses that would become inevitable on account of Labour's policy changes just to keep their doors open.

Businesses keep their doors open. Businesses of all sizes are being affected. Hubs are. Franchisee owner in my constituency made me aware that the the. Due to Labour's increase in National insurance contributions, it would amount to 138,000 for April to September. He has been warned this could increase to over 275,000 in its first full year cycle. This is. The franchisee owner is creating 90 new jobs locally and filling a large high street unit that has previously sat unoccupied for over a year and a half.

It simply seems unfair business owners are willing to contribute their fair share in these, in these, by investing significantly significant amounts back into the high street, but they should not be penalised for trying to grow their business. The spirits industry is also disproportionately facing the effects of these policies, with £676 million less than expected. Despite the rise in alcohol duty. One business in Kings Langley Fells that employs over 70 people in the local area and regularly supports charitable causes and community, is facing mounting costs and regulatory burdens and urge the need to freeze duty rates to mitigate against further price increases.

For an industry that contributed over 75 billion to the UK economy in 2022, as according to the Wine and Spirits Trade Association. Why are we stifling it? Pubs. This summer I spent a week visiting pubs across South West Hertfordshire to see how they're being affected by Labour's decision making. I spoke with Nick, the manager of the court, the coach and horses in Rickmansworth, who told me that the rise of the minimum wage and Nick's have made it incredibly difficult for staffing.

As I've said many times before, many of these businesses sympathise with the need for security and good working conditions. However, this is coming at the cost of rising prices, which just pushes the issue onto customers, leading to less people visiting pubs and putting their money back into the community. Of

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course I will. I'm grateful. To my hon. Friend. Would he agree with.

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Me that the Chancellor do well to consider the draft relief that we brought in when we were in government to lower the tax on beer? government to lower the tax on beer? It could be balanced up by taxes elsewhere, but make sure that our locals are supported instead of

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locals are supported instead of imposing ever greater costs. Hits the nail on the head. While

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Hits the nail on the head. While all sides of the House can claim to support the pub. Actually, policy means that I would argue that our position is a lot stronger than position is a lot stronger than this Labour government. And as I've said before, where this Labour government gets it right, they will have the support of our side and we are not fearful of them changing direction. I won't use the word U-turn because I've done a few of those already, but changing those already, but changing direction for the better.

We will absolutely support. Post offices remain a critical part of our high street. They are a credible and trustworthy high street brand where constituency a regular face on a regular basis. I represent seven post offices in South West Arts, visiting regularly, including Croxley Green. Just two weeks ago. I've seen in person how busy I've seen in person how busy postmasters are serving the community. Many postmasters see the regulars on a frequent basis, often regulars on a frequent basis, often become the first set of eyes and ears on how their customers are doing.

Post offices have evolved beyond just post. Many are now also providing banking facilities due to the closure of high streets, high street banking. Danny, the postmaster branch, is able to offer enhanced banking services. Without this, my constituents will still be stuck waiting for unreliable buses to their nearest bank just to access their money. In conclusion, when we were in government, we extended the retail, Hospitality and Leisure Relief Relief scheme in 2023 and we will reverse this government's decision to not support our high streets.

And I look forward to support from across the House for making sure that we support our high streets and not play. Political point toy.
16:35
Caroline Voaden Portrait Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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Yeah, yeah. The debate today reminds me of the maiden speeches we heard last year, as we've had a really good tour of the of the country and from animal, animal shops to play fun, play passion palaces and all sorts of stuff. So it's been great to be here in this debate talking about high streets, but I think they are more than just shopping streets. Our high streets shape how people feel about where they live and when they're thriving.

People take pride in their towns, and they feel a real sense of optimism about their local area and by extension, the country. And when shops, cafes and pubs are closing, that optimism fades and it leaves people discouraged and looking for change. If the government wants people to feel that their lives are improving and their communities are thriving, if it wants people to feel hopeful and optimistic, then supporting the high street has to be a priority. Doing so will not only help our traders and our shops survive, but it will help restore pride in our towns and ensure that people are invested in the future of their communities and by extension, the country.

Rather than being drawn to alternative voices that offer quick fixes. And I hope that maybe this will be an incentive for the government to rethink some of its measures which have been hitting the high street. I'm really proud to represent a constituency with some fantastic high streets Kingsbridge, Brixham, Modbury, Dartmouth, Salcombe and of course Totnes, which is widely praised for its unique high street, of which I was a trader in one of my past lives. Yet as attractive as these streets are, the reality is that all the traders are really struggling and.

As many others have said, the increase in National Insurance contributions has really hit these businesses hard. So one small cafe in Brixham faces an extra £15,000 in National Insurance costs this year. It's just unmanageable for a small cafe, a larger restaurant that has a chain of 17 really successful restaurants across the south west of England, bringing people in as a magnet to these communities, he said. It's going to cost him so much money that it's the cost of opening a new restaurant, which, if he did, would revitalise another town.

It's so damaging. And not only is the nick rise causing hardship, but the reduction in business rates relief from 75 to 40%, combined with the abolition of the cap, is effectively leaving small businesses, businesses subsidising large chains. And I'm running out of time. But I would just like to say that eight pubs a week are closing and nearly 100,000 jobs lost since the budget. If this was any other industry, it would be headline news. And yet the government seems oblivious to what is actually happening.

So we call on the government to exempt hospitality SMEs from the employers national insurance increase, and to consult on creating a new band from £5,000 to reduce the cost of employing part time and seasonal staff who are absolutely vital to the hospitality industry.

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Caroline Voaden.

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Caroline Voaden. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, can I start by thanking my hon. Friend, the Shadow Business Secretary, for ably setting out the conservative case to restore our high streets and the costs and
16:39
Matt Vickers Portrait Matt Vickers MP (Stockton West, Conservative)
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consequences of the government's decisions. As a former Woollies worker and having chaired the retail APPG, I'm particularly passionate about our high streets and their role as the lifeblood of our local communities. We've heard across the house today brilliant examples from hon. Members and right hon. Members of fantastic local high street businesses in their communities. While few will be as incredible as those in Yarm, Stockton or Thornaby, some very valid points were made. We heard about the huge threat to the full English and greasy spoon cafes across the country, but there are price rises for mushrooms, tomatoes and bacon fall into, well pale into insignificance when faced with Labour's slashing of small business rates relief, their jobs tax and the unemployment rates bill.

From Bognor Regis to Windsor, Doncaster to Crewe, as well as the butchers, bakers and less frequently, candlestick makers, our high streets apparently offer everything from wigs to corned beef and spam, and members are clearly very, very proud of them. One message is shop local and support local small businesses. But another overwhelming message heard from both sides, actually loud and clear and familiar to any member who engages with local small businesses is that our high streets are facing an existential threat, compounded by the choices of this government.

We are a nation of shopkeepers and

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I will give way. hon. Friend, for giving way. I think he's making a very good point, think he's making a very good point, and this is one that I often point out to my constituents when talking about the future of the high street. Other constituencies will be similar. There are approximately 50,000 households in my constituency. If each one of those constituency. If each one of those spent £5 per week supporting a local business, that's £1 million per month that stays in the local economy.

Multiply that and that

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economy. Multiply that and that actually becomes quite powerful in supporting local businesses and their long term vitality. It's a. Clear message. Stop

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It's a. Clear message. Stop flicking through Amazon. Go and buy local. Spend it local. It'll benefit your local economy much benefit your local economy much more greatly. High streets defined place. Their success allows us to feel pride in our towns. They're a feel pride in our towns. They're a place where people come together helping to tackle social isolation, and they're very often the place and they're very often the place where people get their first job and their last. The retail, hospitality and leisure sector hospitality and leisure sector employs 5.8 million people and generates billions of pounds for

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generates billions of pounds for our economy. I will. The Minister agree. With me that those 5.8 million

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With me that those 5.8 million people deserve a decent wage, deserve to know what hours they're working and deserve to have proper sick pay.

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sick pay. Made a very good point. Earlier you said that you don't support workers by bankrupting their employer. The reality is, like the in in the nine months before this government took office, 22,000 jobs were created in the hospitality sector. In the nine months since the last budget, 100,000 people lost their jobs, their ability to go home and provide for their family, to live out their aspirations and dreams. It's a disgrace. These sectors are also the natural home of social mobility, allowing people to climb and achieve incredible things.

With so many stories of people who start stacking shelves and serving coffee, going on to reach the boardroom. But without doubt our high streets are really struggling. The truth is that they've been battered by the Chancellor's budget. Last autumn, a £25 billion tax bombshell on British businesses and jobs, from the jobs tax to the slashing of small business rates relief. What this side of the House understands is that businesses need to be supported, not tied up in red tape and taxed into extinction.

If this Labour government does not change course, we risk making our high streets unrecognisable and unrecoverable. The problems are clear for all to see higher taxes, punitive business rates, soaring energy costs, rising crime and more red tape and paperwork for employers. The government must take

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urgent action to fix it. I will. Grateful to him for giving way. He's been generous with his time. I He's been generous with his time. I was wondering if he could help clarify his party's position on the employment rights bill, because the shadow Secretary of State said earlier that you would they would seek to repeal what he called the seek to repeal what he called the most damaging elements of the bill. Could he set out for us, which measures, by implication, they

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measures, by implication, they welcome and would retain. Well, basically, Labour's trade union masters seem to have a large part of this bill. In fact, you know what? I found a really, really rare thing today. We found one rare thing today. We found one employer on the face of the earth who apparently supported it. But they weren't British. Of course, they weren't British. Of course, they weren't British. In my own constituency in Stockton, almost constituency in Stockton, almost every time I visit a small business owner, they tell me the same story that since the Chancellor's budget, that since the Chancellor's budget, they've had to let staff go, perhaps reduce their hours, they've had to put up prices and some are had to put up prices and some are now considering whether there is any future at all for their business.

As the chief exec of UK business. As the chief exec of UK hospitality has said, pubs, bars and restaurants are already closing earlier because of the jobs tax and earlier because of the jobs tax and more than 200 leading hospitality businesses have written to the Chancellor to warn that her decisions will force companies to cut jobs and reconsider investment. Too many businesses are closing, too many jobs are being lost and boarded up. High streets will eat away at the pride people can have in their communities and town centres.

Throughout today's debate, we've heard Labour MP after Labour MP soon I'm sure to be followed by the Minister talk about the virtues of their government's policies. I have to ask them, have they

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seriously had a conversation with the small business on their local high street about the challenges that they're facing? Yeah.

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Yeah. We're now just a couple of weeks away from the Chancellor's next budget. She has the opportunity to change course. But this morning we heard the same old story, the Chancellor laying the groundwork Chancellor laying the groundwork for more tax rises, another nail in the coffin of our high streets, alongside people and businesses across the country. But we on this side of the house have a clear plan, side of the house have a clear plan, a plan for stronger high streets.

First, abolishing business rates for thousands of retail, for thousands of retail, hospitality and leisure businesses that would benefit a quarter of a million businesses. Savings that million businesses. Savings that only help them thrive but can be reinvested in better premises, reinvested in better premises, lower prices and more jobs. It would lift thousands of businesses

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would lift thousands of businesses would. I'm grateful to my hon. Friend. I wonder if he's as shocked as I am I wonder if he's as shocked as I am to find that the Liberal Democrats have joined their comrades in Labour in saying that not a penny can be saved from public can be saved from public expenditure. Instead, more taxes must be imposed on businesses who weight.

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weight. Is there any to go back on YouTube? We will encourage a bit of online interaction. Go back on YouTube. Isn't that fantastic speech from the leader of opposition about the £47 billion of savings that can be made, that will be supported by the public, that can help us balance the books, save high street businesses like this. Secondly, another issue facing businesses, highlighted by many hon. Members in today's debate has been the impact of energy bills. Madam Deputy Speaker Britain has the highest electricity prices in the world.

It doesn't have to be this way. It's making our high street businesses less competitive and stifling economic growth. That's why we would axe the carbon tax, scrap net zero subsidies to reduce the cost of electricity. It would, of course, benefit consumers, but also businesses too. The average restaurant would save £5,100 a year. Thirdly, stronger policing under this Labour government, crime is on the rise in high streets across the country, eroding community trust and public safety. It's having a huge impact on our high streets.

In fact, just a few weeks ago I met Costa Coffee, a well-known high street chain. Despite their huge resources, they told me they faced constant thefts and even ram raids to steal sandwiches and drinks. An unbelievable situation. Even one of the nation's favourites and mine, Greggs, has had to start locking up their sandwiches, soft drinks and sausage rolls in some locations because of prolific shoplifting. In fact, shoplifting has risen by 20% in this Labour government's first year in office.

That is the highest figure since modern records began. There's no surprise because police numbers are falling under this Labour government. There are 1316 fewer police since they came to power. As part of our plan, we'll hire 10,000 extra police officers backed by £800 million in funding, will end Labour's early release scheme to keep criminals behind bars. We'll introduce intense police hotspot patrolling in areas that cover serious violent crime and robbery, and we'll treble, stop and search to take knives and weapons off our streets.

We'll also redirect resources to catch real criminals, abolishing Non-crime hate incidents so that police can spend 60,000 more hours policing our streets and not our tweets.

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I thank the shadow Minister for giving way. Would he not confirm that under his previous administration, his previous administration, thieves could get £200 worth of goods without impunity? And that's changing under this government.

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changing under this government. Is a complete and utter myth. In fact, I've got a question for him. He'll be able to check the facts, the government facts, the government stats that will confirm that of all the people charged with shop theft, 90% of them related to

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shop theft, 90% of them related to goods under £200, would you. Believe it? And could he? In fact, I've got

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And could he? In fact, I've got a question and I will let him answer. Could he name a single police force in the country that had a policy of not not actioning

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had a policy of not not actioning thefts under £200. On a single piece I'm very happy to intervene. We're talking about changing the We're talking about changing the status quo. The status quo has been the case under his government.

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the case under his government. Not a single police force in the country had that policy. 90% of all shop thefts charged were for under shop thefts charged were for under goods under the value of £200. It's a fact. It's a myth and we shouldn't. I'm going to run out of shouldn't. I'm going to run out of time. Yeah, we would. Mr. speaker, fundamentally at the heart of our high street. Madam Deputy Speaker, high street. Madam Deputy Speaker, is entrepreneurship. Those incredible people who get up early, take the risks and build something.

take the risks and build something. They create jobs, wealth and opportunity. But this Labour government has spent the last year making it harder to start a business. It means now just 1 in 4 young people who want to start a business do so, as highlighted by the Federation of Small Business. We need to cut red tape so our businesses can breathe again. We need to make it easier for entrepreneurs to open a bank account and engage with HMRC and expand business coaching in schools.

Of course, it's no surprise that those in the government benches just don't get it. Just one member of the Cabinet started their own business, and less than half have ever worked in the private sector. I'll conclude with this point. The high street is suffering as a result. People who've invested their lives in creating businesses are suffering. Those youngsters who might have been able to get their first job on the high street are also suffering. Those older people who felt pride in their town for years and decades, and now watching as shops are boarded up, they're suffering.

Analysis of insolvency notices has revealed that businesses are closing at the fastest rate since the world economic crash, and as a result, 17% more people are without a job. Tonight, there's a chance to join the conservatives in backing the people who work hard and do the right thing. Any member of this House who wants to support our high streets, support the entrepreneurs who work hard and do the right thing. Support more job opportunities for people young and old, or ensure people can continue to have pride in their town centres should support this motion and our plan for stronger high streets.

I commend this motion.
16:51
Blair McDougall Portrait Blair McDougall MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Business and Trade) (East Renfrewshire, Labour)
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Today, Minister.

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Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, it's been a pleasure to listen to you, and a pleasure to listen to you, and it's a pleasure to respond to this very passionate debate. Before we get into maybe the things we get into maybe the things we disagree on, it's been really interesting to how many times people have used metaphors like people have used metaphors like heart and soul and backbone when talking about their local high streets and local businesses. This streets and local businesses.

This is something that's personal to us. It's about how we feel about the place that we live. And as a former place that we live. And as a former retail worker myself, I remember the customers who would come in and yes, maybe pay more than the big yes, maybe pay more than the big supermarket because they got that personal touch and the elderly customers who would come in and you knew that you were perhaps the only conversation they had with another human being that day. This is, of human being that day.

This is, of course, about entrepreneurship and business, but it's also, as someone said, about the soul of our communities. And it has been communities. And it has been fantastic listening to so many members talking about with great members talking about with great pride about different high streets and businesses in their own communities. The Member for Farnham inviting us to Downing Street. I hope it's the only time a right hope it's the only time a right winger invites me to Downing Street for some years to come.

Cultural trip to Weymouth. The exciting plans. They're having a pint in The Swan in Windsor. Maybe the next time I go to Legoland with my children. As someone Madam Deputy Speaker who's no stranger to the sweet trolley, I look forward to the Cosy Cake shop and Death by Fudge in Doncaster. Another pint at the Fox and Goose, the Torbay Bar a bar. The last time I was in, I don't remember terribly much about because it was on a stag do.

So much pride expressed, and I hope that everyone in the chamber in a few days time in Small Business Saturday will repeat that pride in their local high street because it helps drive footfall and support those those local people. Lots of talk members from across the House. Member for Strangford East Thanet raising the issue of business rates and business rate reform, we are determined as a government to remove barriers to investment, helping businesses to succeed and grow.

Reforming business rates was a key manifesto pledge, and it's one we're going to fulfil. The Member for Tonbridge, who I have some affection to, and also the Member for, I think South West Devon both quoted Napoleon, which I don't know if that was a signal that they're not going to cross the floor to reform, but I'll be I'll be maybe slightly, slightly more patriotic and quote Nelson, you cannot turn a blind eye to the cost of the tax measures that you set out.

Fiscal credibility and fiscal sustainability are not abstract concepts because we got the public finances under control. Small businesses across this country have lower borrowing costs. People across the country, because of those interest rates have more money in their pocket, and that more money ends up in people's pockets. They need a real plan, not a fantasy. And that is why we will introduce permanently lower business rates for retail and

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hospitality in the budget. Yes. I tried to ask this question

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I tried to ask this question about the amendment that's going to be voted on from the government because it states explicitly that because it states explicitly that administrative burdens on regulation for businesses will be cut by 25%. I have two questions. cut by 25%. I have two questions. What is that 25% of? And how is it judged, and is it before or after judged, and is it before or after the Employment Rights bill came in? I put it to the Minister first hand.

She dodged the question and decided to attack this side of the House. to attack this side of the House. I'd be grateful because it's key to time.

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time. Well, we made it clear a few days ago that we plan to reduce the administrative cost of regulatory administrative cost of regulatory burden by nearly £6 billion, and that is what we will do. But there's a as hon. Members opposite there's a as hon. Members opposite have spoken about the Employment Rights Bill and their intention to repeal it. They're forgetting that within that is setting up a single regulator for the labour market, which will actually reduce red tape for for businesses across the place.



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for for businesses across the place. But I also. Yes, go on. Let me try and help the Minister

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Let me try and help the Minister genuinely. I think we are very keen to I think probably some of many of his colleagues are pretty keen to know as well. It's one thing to say we would like to reduce the cost by 25%. Sure you would. The question is, how does the government think it's going to going to realise 25%?

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your. It's the government. Amendment to the. Opposition you're voting for. How are these 25% savings going

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How are these 25% savings going to be realised? Okay. Well, I'll come in a moment to our plans to reduce the moment to our plans to reduce the mountain of red tape that his government left to us and to reduce government left to us and to reduce reduce the cost to that member after member on the other side as well, spoke about the Employment well, spoke about the Employment rights Bill. I should say from the outset, we want those employment outset, we want those employment rights to be fit for the 21st century.

It was the last century when we properly reviewed our when we properly reviewed our employment law, and that relationship between employer and relationship between employer and employee. But I am astonished that members and honourable right hon. members and honourable right hon. Members opposite do not seem to see the connection between how much money people have in their pockets money people have in their pockets and the ability of their local high streets to thrive, and giving streets to thrive, and giving people more secure work.

Giving people higher wages means that the money that's in people's pockets money that's in people's pockets ends up in the tills of local businesses. I'll give way to.

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businesses. I'll give way to. Very grateful to my hon. Friend because he is a friend and he's a great man. But but he's entirely wrong on this. He's entirely wrong on this. Because what he's the argument he's making is a correct one, which is why I'd be advocating lowering taxes. And yet this government has raised the taxes on businesses, raised the rates on businesses. And if we are to believe what Rachel Reeves has been saying, sorry, the hon. Lady for the Chancellor.

Thank you, right hon. Lady, the Chancellor has been saying this morning we're all being warned that she's about to raise taxes on individuals as well. And that's costing us all because people are reining in their poorer.

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Yeah. Okay. I'll return the compliment to him before I before I disagree to him before I before I disagree with him. This this is the problem. There is a there is a certain cheek to the party opposite leaving us a burning building and then criticising us for reaching for the fire hose. We had to stabilise the public finances. And again, that's not abstract. They have to learn

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not abstract. They have to learn the lesson. And here comes the groan from the Liz Truss budget. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah, they have to learn that lesson because it's not abstract for businesses coming, coming to for businesses coming, coming to the issue of red tape, stripping out the cost of that in March, our regulatory action plan, the regulatory action plan, the government pledged to cut regulatory burdens and the cost of that by 25% and the Regional Investment Summit last month. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor and business Secretary, made a and business Secretary, made a great start on that, with an additional £230 million of savings for businesses by changing the requirements on directors reports requirements on directors reports for businesses of any size.

So we

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for businesses of any size. So we are making. I certainly will. The Minister will be aware that that's less than 5% of the cost being imposed on business by the Employment Rights Bill, according to the government.

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Well, the cost of the Employment Rights bill is around 0.4% of wage Rights bill is around 0.4% of wage costs. Across across the country. There is a huge impact on small businesses and high streets from businesses and high streets from having the the additional having the additional help there. Many the additional help there. Many members raised retail crime to respond to the right hon. Member respond to the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green as well, who raised the issue of the character of local areas to reassure him his suggestion in terms of greater powers locally to control the spread of gambling shops, and something that we are shops, and something that we are looking to take forward when time allows.

And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, for ten years we waited for a small business strategy in for a small business strategy in this country. In July, we brought that forward for the first time. that forward for the first time. Action on late payments for businesses on access to finance, businesses on access to finance, cutting red tape. And across this government, there is an urgency that I wish was there. It's there today, but it wasn't there before to support small businesses and

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help get our high streets back on their feet. The question is that the original words stand part of the question. As many as are of that opinion say I, I.

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Of the contrary, no know. As As on As on the As on the Order Paper. As many as are of that Paper. As many as are of that opinion say I. I of the contrary, opinion say I. I of the contrary, no. No tellers for the ayes Andrew Snowden Katie Lam Tellers for the

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Worcester. Worcester. Lordship Worcester. Lordship births.
17:04
17:17
None Portrait Opposition Day Debate: Debate on a Motion in the Name of the Official Opposition. Subject to be announced.
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day motion on welfare spending. I inform the order. Order! I inform the House that Mr. Speaker has not selected either of the amendments tabled. Helen Whately shadow

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Minister to move. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. All of us here

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Deputy Speaker. All of us here will surely remember our first job the moment you got your first the moment you got your first paycheque. I was 16, I got paid £40 and I bought myself a pair of shoes. and I bought myself a pair of shoes. Nothing fancy, but I remember that feeling the first time I had money feeling the first time I had money in my pocket that I had earned to spend how I pleased. It was a moment of liberation from which there was no going back.

Of course, there was no going back. Of course, as we get older, it's not so simple. You have more obligations, bills to pay. But the basic fact is the same pay. But the basic fact is the same having a job, paying your own way. That's how you get Independence freedom Agency. You can make your freedom Agency. You can make your own choices and the chance to build up your financial security. Not up your financial security. Not every job takes you on a path paved with gold.

But if you're not in work, you don't even have a chance work, you don't even have a chance of changing your fortune. Millions of people up and down the country know what I'm talking about. People who get up each morning and go to work. People who go to work every
17:18
Helen Whately Portrait Helen Whately MP (Faversham and Mid Kent, Conservative)
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work. People who go to work every evening if they're doing the night shift, some people doing both to make ends meet. But not everyone. In fact, not a lot of people. Madam Deputy Speaker, let's look at the numbers. There are 6.5 million people of working age on out of work benefits. Nearly a million young people aren't in any form of employment, education or training, and 5000 people are signing on to long term sickness benefits with no requirement to work every single day.

Those numbers should worry all of us in this place. They're not just statistics. We're talking about people mums, dads, women in their 50s, young men in their 20s, people who are missing out sat at home rather than at work waiting for the handout to drop into their bank account rather than out there putting their shoulder to the wheel. And for every person on benefits and out of work, there are many more who suffer the consequences of worklessness, like the increasing number of children who are growing up in workless households.

More than a million children across our country, with neither the income nor the culture of work. So worklessness gets passed from one generation to the next, stunting life chances in every sense of the word. Opportunities, prosperity, longevity. And this applies to entire communities to large parts of our country where being on benefits isn't the rarity, it's become the norm from our great cities like Birmingham and Liverpool to historic seaside towns like Blackpool. Around a quarter of the population are on out of work.

Benefits drop into some of the poorest areas of those cities, and you'll find communities where the majority of people are on benefits and think what that means in practice along a street door after door, and watch out if you're the odd one out actually trying to go to work. As I heard one of my visits recently, the whole family were yelling at the son who was trying to break the cycle of Worklessness because his 7 a.m. alarm clock was disturbing their sleep.

A shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. I travel the country talking to people and finding out the facts on the ground. One story that stuck with me is about a young man in his 20s from Bridgend in Wales. He's on benefits, but he got a place on a course at the local college. The exact course he wanted to do. It had the potential to give him skills and transform his life. It could have got him off benefits and into work. The job he really wanted to do.

But it didn't happen. Why? Because he was terrified of being worse off, that he'd lose his personal independence payment and end up broke. That's wrong. And let's be frank, his story isn't just a one off. It's going on all around the country, everywhere, every day. People deciding they're better off on benefits. Our welfare system should be a safety net, but it's become a welfare trap, condemning people to live off the state rather than off their elbow grease. Of course, help should be there for people who are unable to work or who need a lot of support to do so.

In fact, if the system worked better, it might be able to help some people, those who really need it some more. Instead, we have many thousands of people making rational decisions to claim benefits rather than work the benefits bill rocketing and still people who are disabled facing a struggle to get

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help and make ends meet. I'll give way to the hon. Lady. Does the hon. Lady. Not recognise that a Personal

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Not recognise that a Personal Independence Payment is not a benefit paid on your ability to work and is paid regardless? So work and is paid regardless? So providing that case study is perhaps not the most appropriate to making the argument that she's

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trying to progress here. Judith Cummins of course I know that. But if she had talked to many that. But if she had talked to many people, as I have, who receive personal independence payments, she will know that many people worry will know that many people worry that if they go into training or if they go into work when they are reassessed, they will then lose reassessed, they will then lose their personal independence payment. Even though in theory, yes, you can and should work if you can while and should work if you can while you're getting Pip.

People worry that because they're working, it will then be seen as they don't will then be seen as they don't actually need it. They don't actually have that level of health problem. And that is why it's acting at the moment and the way it acting at the moment and the way it works as a barrier and a disincentive to work. And that is why it needs reform. Madam Deputy Speaker, reforming welfare isn't cruel to people on benefits. Quite cruel to people on benefits. Quite the opposite.

What is cruel is ducking the challenge, accepting the status quo and continuing to spend millions of pounds of taxpayers money on keeping people on benefits. But that is exactly what the party opposite is doing. Just a few months ago, the Prime Minister and the former work and pensions secretary did have a go at doing something about this. They set out some welfare cuts, rushed and poorly thought through, as I said at the time, but their backbenchers were having none of it.

We have never seen anything like it. It was the very definition of shambles in this chamber. Right in the middle of the debate, their savings bill became a spending bill and despite the government frantically making concessions, concessions we still live with, like the Timms review in the Personal independence payments, I have a great deal of respect for the Minister for Social Security, but what hope can we have for his review? When it was conceived as a bargaining chip to buy off angry backbenchers, it's taken months to even kick off the review, months to come up with the terms of reference.

And now we have them. We see welfare savings are off the table and yes, I said savings are worth. The Secretary of State was careful to clear steer of in questions last week. So what a situation this is. The Chancellor keeps talking about welfare savings. She did again this morning and his review ruled out making any savings. The Secretary of State won't even utter the word. So who will win this argument? Will it be the hapless Chancellor with her back against the wall, or the wily welfare secretary playing a longer game while they spar behind the political scenes? The clock is ticking and the benefits Bill keeps on heading up and up and up towards 100 billion, with no prospect whatsoever of them slowing that trajectory, let alone actually getting it down.

Instead, as the Chancellor has told us this morning, they will turn to tax rises to fund welfare, more job destroying, growth killing policies, reducing opportunities and saddling future generations with the bill, leaving them to pay it off for decades to come. The government has not only given up on saving money, they have given up on millions of people

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across Britain. I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman. Another lady, for giving way on

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Another lady, for giving way on savings and on leaving the next generation with a bill. Can she remind the House just how much the remind the House just how much the now Shadow Chancellor increased DWP spending on welfare during his time in the department? And the figure I've got on the tip of my tongue is somewhere close north of £30 billion

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Could you comment on that? The hon. Gentleman thinks he's so clever. I'm sorry to say this is so clever. I'm sorry to say this is a whole lot more serious than that. a whole lot more serious than that. I'm glad you like that. But the fact is, if he looks back a little bit further, maybe than his his bit further, maybe than his his time in politics back to 2010, he'll know very well that the welfare bill came down, that unemployment came down, and that we had the huge reform of universal credit, led by the right hon.

Gentleman, my friend for Chingford and Woodgreen. And that made a huge and Woodgreen. And that made a huge difference. And then, of course, as was shunted from the front bench over there. Yes, the pandemic, of course, that made a difference. We had a set of reforms going on. And your front bench and some of their predecessors, because there's been predecessors, because there's been a certain amount of turnover, came in and gave up, gave up on those set of reforms. And where are we now? Where are we now? No savings and no plan to get people off welfare and into work.

But it doesn't have to be this way. The country knows this isn't working. People want change. They want a fairer system, a system that rewards those who do the right thing, where work does pay, where taking personal responsibility for yourself and your family makes sense, where there's help for those who need it, but not for anyone who might fancy it. And where. Welfare is a safety net, not a way of life. It might be hard for members over there to hear, but this is what people out there want and they want it now.

So let's get on with it. Conservatives have set out our common sense proposals to start fixing the welfare system. We would stop sickness benefits for people with lower level mental health conditions like anxiety. We would reform Motability, putting an end to taxpayer funded cars for people who have conditions like ADHD and Tennis Elbow, we would bring back face to face assessments which are going down under this Labour government. We would change the sick note system so it doesn't just funnel people out of the office and onto benefits.

We have prioritised Brits in our welfare system, stopping people with indefinite and limited leave to remain from claiming benefits. And of course we believe in retaining the two child benefit cap because the cap is fiscally responsible and it's fair. Removing it will cost over £3 billion and be deeply unfair on families who aren't on benefits. Couples who decide they can't afford another child but will pay taxes for someone else to do just that. On this, the conservatives are the only party who are fully committed to the two child benefit

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cap. No ifs and no buts. I give way to the right hon. Gentleman grateful to her for giving way. I've read somewhere giving way. I've read somewhere that the list of things that she's gone through would save the gone through would save the estimated £23 billion. In part of that is in housing benefit. Can you

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that is in housing benefit. Can you tell us how much of the £23 billion will be saved from housing benefit? Well, I thank the right hon.

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Well, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. As he says, we have earmarked 23 billion potential savings and housing potential savings and housing benefit is one area. There's the other set of savings that I have just gone through. I'm very happy just gone through. I'm very happy to go through with him some of our sums and how we've got to these figures, because as I have said to figures, because as I have said to him, as I have said to him, I believe that this government should be picking up on our list of suggestions because that is how they could get on with the job, with bringing down the welfare bill with bringing down the welfare bill and avoiding what we're seeing.

The Chancellor clearly rolling the pitch for this morning, which is pitch for this morning, which is tax rises at the budget. Madam Deputy Speaker, times are hard. I Deputy Speaker, times are hard. I don't want the government to put up taxes. I don't want them to keep spending other people's money on welfare, because we all know one welfare, because we all know one day it will run out. I don't want them to keep leaving people living lives on benefits rather than in work. That's why I've been so clear about what they could and should do.

And having heard their backbenchers say things like, I didn't come here to cut benefits in this chamber, that's why we've offered to help the Leader of the Opposition, shadow Chancellor, and I have made a big offer to the government. We will help them make welfare savings. We will work with them in good faith to get the welfare bill down and get people off welfare and into work. Labour backbenchers don't want to make the tough decisions on welfare, but our door is open.

We will work with the government in the national interest. It's not too late to make those bold decisions and make serious savings. A vote for our motion today is a vote for getting Britain's welfare system back on track, for getting the welfare bill under control, and setting out on a moral mission to get millions off welfare and into

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work. Thank you, Madam Deputy. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, I call Minister Stephen Timms. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I enjoyed listening to the hon. Lady's fierce critique of the state of the benefit system left behind of the benefit system left behind after 14 years of Tory government, and she made some good points about it. This government, by contrast, it. This government, by contrast, is building a welfare system which is proactive and pro work opportunity at its heart to change lives for the better in rather the way that she suggested it needed to way that she suggested it needed to do.

Every person we can help into good work means a better life for good work means a better life for them, for their mental health, for their finances, and it's better for the public purse as well to get the public purse as well to get people off welfare and into work requires an active approach. We do requires an active approach. We do have a plan. The system left behind by the last government of just passive benefit processing was passive benefit processing was simply not up to the job, and that's why they're left behind.

As she said, nearly a million young she said, nearly a million young people who are Neet, 2.8 million people economically inactive through long term ill health, we are determined now to put those failures right. I give way to my hon. Friend.
17:32
Stephen Timms Portrait Rt Hon Sir Stephen Timms MP (East Ham, Labour)
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I thank my hon. Friend, and he's he's making a great introduction because you need to remind the party opposite of their failures after 14 years in government. But will he agree with me that under their time in office, the disability employment gap remains stubbornly at 30%? And does he agree with me that it's only this Labour government that will do all they can to ensure that disabled people will have opportunities for

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work? Yes. It is absolutely right. The disability employment gap fell steadily under the last Labour government. It's been stuck at about as my hon. Friends 30 about as my hon. Friends 30 percentage points ever since 2010. There was one in those 14 long years of Tory rule, when it looked years of Tory rule, when it looked as though they planned to do something about it. In the middle of the 2015 general election campaign, David Cameron announced the target of halving the disability employment gap.

They suddenly woke up at that moment, but as soon as that election had been safely won, they scrapped the target. They just went back to target. They just went back to passive benefit processing again. I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman.

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I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman. Can I thank the Minister? The minister's a good man. I mean that minister's a good man. I mean that honestly, sincerely. I think he understands and shares the faith that I have in relation to that. We look after those who are less well off. But every day in my office I meet my constituents who have disabilities, those with complex disabilities, those with complex health needs, those with anxiety and depression, those with severe debilitation, those whose health debilitation, those whose health problems are impacting on their families.

They are burdened with financial pressures. Don't penalise financial pressures. Don't penalise those who can't cope with life. Can the Minister reassure us that the vulnerable won't be gone for, or become a target for government, or indeed anybody else in this chamber? Yeah.

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Yes, madam Deputy Speaker, I'll come on to talk about that in a couple of minutes time. But by couple of minutes time. But by contrast with that passive approach of the last government, we will be active. We're investing in we're active. We're investing in we're joining up work, health and skill support. We brought skills, apprenticeships, adult further apprenticeships, adult further education, training and careers into DWP, so we're better able to give people the skills to thrive in today's economy and for them to move into good, secure jobs.

I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman. Thank you.

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Thank you. For giving way. At the minute, an estimated 13 million households an estimated 13 million households in the country that's just over 50% of all households are net recipients from the state rather than net contributors. What would than net contributors. What would he expect that figure to be by the end of this Parliament?

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Well, the hon. Gentleman raises another interesting reflection on the state of the system left behind the state of the system left behind by 14 years of Tory government. We are going to be making progress, as are going to be making progress, as I said. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, the the proposals, the plan we've got is going to help deliver our ambition not just for jobs but for national renewal, building new national renewal, building new homes, making the NHS fit for the future, powering the shift to green energy amongst people of working age.

Those with low or no qualifications are some two and a half times more likely to be out of work than those who are better qualified. Just closing that gap would mean a million extra people in work. But skills aren't the only barrier. For many, it's ill health and we're determined to get people back to work, back to good health, opening up more opportunities for people who've been out of work because of ill health in the past through work well, employment advisers being embedded directly in healthcare teams, from GP surgeries to mental health services, I make a bit more headway and make a bit more headway.

First, connect to work is going to the end of the decade to support 300,000 disabled people, people with health and other complex barriers to employment to get into and get on in work. Our Pathways to Work guarantee, backed by an additional billion pounds a year by the end of the decade, will bring all of this together. Personalised work, health and skills support for anybody on out of work benefits with a health condition or disability. Who wants that support? And we already have a thousand new pathways to work advisers in place, working in job centres around the country to help disabled people.

I met a couple of them in Edinburgh a few weeks ago. They told me of the positive reactions of the people. They're ringing up, people who the system gave up on years ago, but we've not

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Gentleman. And he mentioned work well, which is a fantastic scheme that which is a fantastic scheme that was brought in in 2023 that dealt with 1550 9000 people and £64 million worth of conservative government investment to bring that government investment to bring that forward. I'm glad the government's taking it forward and looking to taking it forward and looking to expand it. My concern is, as a GP, trying to have more people into the premises is what do you do with premises is what do you do with those work coaches? Where do they actually go when premises don't have the space to deal with that extra side? So that delivery is extra side? So that delivery is really important.

I wonder if you could explain how that pilots worked out to where we are now, and we'll be taking forward.

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we'll be taking forward. Raises? A very good practical point. I mean, that certainly are quite a lot of GP surgeries where quite a lot of GP surgeries where they do have space and where they welcome work coach or an advisor welcome work coach or an advisor onto the premises. But but he's right that that doesn't work everywhere. So we've got to be flexible. We've got to have a local flexible. We've got to have a local approach for each area. That's what Connect to Work is going to deliver.

Connect to Work is going to deliver. We also need. To stop people falling unnecessarily out of work due to ill health in the first due to ill health in the first place. Stopping work is often not in the interests either of the employee or the employer, but it employee or the employer, but it kind of happens far too often by default. So Sir Charlie Mayfield has been leading the Keep Britain Working review on how government and businesses can work together for more inclusive, healthier workplaces.

And he's going to be reporting his findings very soon. This active approach is particularly important for young people, as the shadow Secretary of State suggested in her opening remarks. With so many left after 14 years not in employment, education or training, being out of work for a long time at the start of what should be your working life does long term damage to health, to earnings, potential to prospects, and there are consequences, obviously, for the Social Security system as well. If you don't get somebody on a productive path early on, it can be really hard to change course further down the line.

So we're expanding the number of youth hubs, partnering with sports clubs to get help to people in the community, developing a youth guarantee to make sure 18 to 21 year olds are earning or learning. And as the Chancellor announced last month, learning from the success of Labour's future jobs scheme, it will include a jobs guarantee, our youth guarantee, trailblazers up and running, innovating, testing out the best ways to join up, support, make the most of young people's talent and potential for mental health support, to flexible work experience sessions.

And those trailblazers will inform the national rollout of the guarantee so that everybody has the chance to get their working lives off on the right foot. We're reforming Jobcentres, introducing the Jobs and Careers Service, a universal service moving away from one size fits all, offering much more personalised support where testing changes to the claimant

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commitment as we look to free up work coaches, I'll gladly give way to the right hon. Gentleman I'm listening very

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Gentleman I'm listening very carefully to everything he's saying and obviously productive. The key for him, of course, is that for the for him, of course, is that for the first time, he has the sickness benefit into Universal Credit now, including all the other benefits. including all the other benefits. It gives them a face to face opportunity. With all of these staff in all of this, does he staff in all of this, does he anticipate, therefore, as he gets more people back to work, which is particularly those who have mental particularly those who have mental health problems such as depression and anxiety, where work is a health treatment, as the health service treatment, as the health service will say.

Does he anticipate then on the back of that, calculating whether or not they will save any money doing this? And if so, will

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money doing this? And if so, will he at some stage come up with a plan for saving that money? I do envisage that as people get

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I do envisage that as people get back to work, there will be savings on Social Security and we're going on Social Security and we're going to see, I think, at the the budget projections from the OBR of future projections from the OBR of future moves into employment as a result of the changes we're making. And there certainly will be savings there certainly will be savings that arise. But but we want our work coaches, as he has just work coaches, as he has just pointed out, to be spending less time on bureaucracy, more time on what they're doing and what they do best, which is giving people the benefit of their expertise, helping people move closer to work.

Good work is also going to be a key part of the child poverty strategy, which we will bring forward by the end of the year. We're going to tackle child poverty by increasing family incomes, reducing family costs, building financial resilience, improving local support. I took some people will remember the Child Poverty Act 2010 through Parliament with all party support at the time. It was quickly scrapped by the coalition and the number of children growing up in poverty has gone up by 900,000 since then, and welfare spending has rocketed as well, reducing child poverty.

Reducing welfare spending are not opposites. I give way to my hon. Friend.

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I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way. Will he join me in recognising the benefit to the labour market of the roll out of 30 labour market of the roll out of 30 hours free childcare? I met a single mum in my constituency who's taking on more hours supporting her taking on more hours supporting her family, which will help her children get out of poverty. Thanks to this government's efforts.

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to this government's efforts. John Whitby is absolutely right. That is a very welcome and much needed step. And you know, those early years are crucial to somebody's life chances. Making sure children grow up happy, healthy, able to fulfil their potential is certainly, to borrow a potential is certainly, to borrow a phrase from the motion, a moral mission. But it's also how to reduce demand on Social Security reduce demand on Social Security instead of, like the last government sitting on their hands and leaving the system to pick up and leaving the system to pick up higher costs further down the line.

And the child poverty strategy will build on our cross-government build on our cross-government approach to lifting people out of poverty, roll out of free breakfast clubs, raising the national minimum wage, expanding. As my hon. Friend rightly points out, free childcare, rightly points out, free childcare, free school meals for all families on Universal Credit. It's going to be an ambitious strategy, and in be an ambitious strategy, and in developing it, we're going to be considering all of the levers available to give every child the best start in life.

The plan to make work pay. That was what Universal Credit was intended to do, but it was left with perverse disincentives to work in the system, forcing people, as many people did, to aspire to be classified as sick to qualify for a higher payment. We've addressed that rebalancing the payments in Universal Credit, alongside other reforms. And of course, the system should not be forcing people to aspire to be classified too sick to be sick. It should be promoting work, encouraging work, and providing support to make work feasible.

We're progressing. As the hon. Lady kindly mentioned, the the review, which I am responsible for, I'll make a little bit more more headway to be co-produced with disabled people. That's to make sure the system supports disabled people to achieve better health, higher living standards, greater independence, including through work. And we'll be doing more face to face assessments over the next year, boosting the number of health professionals working in assessment centres. Face to face assessments were stopped for understandable reasons during the pandemic, but they were never really brought back.

The places where they were carried out were sold off. We're having to reinstate and rebuild that service. I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman.

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Minister giving way. He talks about perverse incentives, aspiring to be classified as being sick. But to be classified as being sick. But does he accept that with sickness benefits you get 2500 pounds more benefits you get 2500 pounds more than if you're on the National Living Wage full time? If that's the case, which it is, what's his

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plan to reverse that perverse incentive? Well. Major changes in the Universal Credit Act, which will take effect Credit Act, which will take effect in April of next year. So we're we're we're making the changes that we're we're making the changes that are needed. And lastly, on building a more active welfare system, we need to make sure every penny we do need to make sure every penny we do spend goes on the support that is designed for. That's why the Public Authorities Fraud Error and Authorities Fraud Error and Recovery bill is working its way back through this House.

The guidance of my hon. Friend as we guidance of my hon. Friend as we speak. There are new powers there for the department to tackle fraud and error so we can realise £1.5 and error so we can realise £1.5 billion in benefits by 20 2930, as part of wider measures that we part of wider measures that we expect to save £9.6 billion over the same period that's needed after fraud against the public sector stood at an estimated £55 billion in 20 2324 on the previous government's watch.

And in the same year, benefit fraud alone was £7.3

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billion. There's a lot to be done. Good way to the hon. Lady. Thank the Minister for giving

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Thank the Minister for giving way and I believe nothing frustrates genuine welfare claimants more than seeing those claimants more than seeing those claimants who are not deserving, or those who are defrauding the system. In Northern Ireland, the cost is In Northern Ireland, the cost is 240 million per annum. And to be honest, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Given the restrictions around investigations in Northern Ireland, the communities Minister has started naming and shaming. Does he agree with me that there Does he agree with me that there needs to be a UK wide strategy around fraud and ensuring those in real need don't miss out?

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real need don't miss out? Well, it's. Vital that we make sure that those in real need don't miss out, those in real need don't miss out, and I can reassure her that I'm in fairly regular contact with her colleague in the Northern Ireland colleague in the Northern Ireland Assembly. And these are certainly things that we need to discuss between the the two governments. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, we've seen what happens when I'm going to make a bit more progress.

We've seen what happens when Social Security is not managed properly. We've seen the consequences for We've seen the consequences for child poverty, for the many thousands denied the opportunity to work, people who want to work and work, people who want to work and who could work with the right support. And we're taking action now to give people the best chances in life so they can support themselves and their families. Delivering on our plan to make work pay, including removing those work disincentives from Universal Credit.

Joining up support so people get proper help into work, giving children and young people the best possible start in life, setting them up to succeed in the future. Unlike the previous government. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are not resigned to failure. We are investing in success in work, health and skills support to provide hope for a better future, actively helping people along their own path to work, creating an opportunity welfare state. We've made Madam Deputy Speaker a great start, but there is a huge amount still to do, and I welcome this chance in this debate to seek the

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support of the House for our mission. I call Liberal Democrat

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spokesperson Steve Darling. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I think it's important that the And I think it's important that the House, first of all, reflects on where the conservatives left our where the conservatives left our community. Sorry. Well, before when they when they came, when they left they when they came, when they left power, the fact that the numbers of people who claimed who were economically inactive have gone up economically inactive have gone up from 2.1 million in 20 19 to 2.8, is something that I think members would reflect on, and the fact that the bill for incapacity benefits
17:48
Steve Darling Portrait Steve Darling MP (Torbay, Liberal Democrat)
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went up from 34 to 51 billion is quite, quite shocking. And so it is interesting that they feel that they're able to share their pearls of wisdom and wisdom to the chamber after leaving the world in such a sorry state. In fact, I'm sure that Disraeli and Peel must be turning in their graves the way that the conservatives have climbed into the gutter of these proposals that are before us this evening. There are some real challenges, and what we need to be seeing.

Madam Deputy Speaker, is a true culture change, both in the benefit system and a culture change in in the employment world to actually help people get into work. And part of that culture change should be a trauma informed approach, both in our the way that the DWP and our civil service work, but also how our society works so that we can be helping those people into work where they can. I'd also, Madam Deputy Speaker, reflect on the sorry state that the conservative left are NHS in after starved of cash and the fail of investment that we saw for many, many years.

It is a great pity how many residents came to me in my first year of being an MP for Torbay, who weren't able to gain access to the operations that we required due to the lack of investment by the conservatives over many, many years, where they bled money out of the capital system to cover costs of revenue. And this is utterly shameful. Torbay hospital still continues to crumble. And sadly, I'm afraid to say that under the new Labour government, we are still seeing a quarter of £1 billion worth of cuts to our NHS services in year.

And with the conservatives undermining people with mental health challenges, £21 million worth of those cuts are set to take place against our Bevan partnership system. I'd happily give way.

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To give way. It was the conservative government that brought in the mental health investment standard to ensure parity between mental health. It is this government that has made that capital cut. It is this government that is not meeting that standard. I'm intrigued to understand where I'm intrigued to understand where he thinks there is so much difficulty in understanding that, and why the Labour government are

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and why the Labour government are making those cuts when it comes to mental health payments. I'd like to thank my honourable

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I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for giving way, and I would reflect on the savage cuts to public health that the that occurred. And also one one issue occurred. And also one one issue that I would reflect on particularly is the numbers of people who sleep rough on our people who sleep rough on our streets. And as a young liberal, it's something that I campaigned on more than 30 years ago. And sadly, those rough sleepers are just the tip of the iceberg of some of those tip of the iceberg of some of those challenges that we have within our society.

I would also reflect on society. I would also reflect on how, you know, I go back to the Devon Partnership Trust and the cuts there. So that is a real challenge. I now really want to challenge. I now really want to move on to access to work. And I know that Ministers do see this and have been on the record of seeing it as one of the best kept secrets, but I fear that it has not continued to perform as strongly as it could to drive people into work.

In fact, I know myself and others have real concerns around, you know, changes to this system that could undermine it. The fact that we have if you have a disability, you're 50% more likely to be out of work. A quarter of people who are registered blind are in work. That clearly means that 75% are out of work. And those are shocking figures. I welcome the fact and the Liberal Democrats welcome the fact of the Charlie Mayfield report, which is looking at how we can re-engage, how we can engage with appropriately the employment world, and seeing what positive lessons can be learned from our nearby colleagues in Europe.

And I look forward to that coming forward. But perhaps the government got the horse and the cart the wrong way round, as perhaps that report should have been. It should have been undertaken before the Employment Rights Bill was actually progressed. Finally, I'd like to come to something that Liberal Democrats have voted against on three occasions of this Parliament, and that is the two child limit and the benefit cap. Some people you know what, what what for the widow and the children where the husband dies.

But what choice was there? There? I'm just shocked that the conservatives have such levels of heartlessness that they're turning those back on those individuals in what they alluded to. There. We have 4.5 million children living in poverty within the United Kingdom. That's every every third child living in poverty. I reflect that when I visited Barton Hill Academy in recent years, I asked the kids what they liked and what they didn't like about Torbay, and it wasn't so much about the litter and things like that that you expect.

It was about mom and dad not being able to make ends meet. And I wonder how many of those youngsters were impacted by the two child limit. So I would in conclusion, I would say that there are some elements of this bill that as liberal Democrats we welcome, such as managing the benefits bill a a return to face to face assessments where they can. But others of this are totally risible for us. We see the benefit system akin to our NHS, something that should be there to support people to live their best lives, and therefore we will not be supporting this motion before us tonight.



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And with an immediate four minute time limit. Luke Akehurst.
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Luke Akehurst Portrait Luke Akehurst MP (North Durham, Labour)
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Yes, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Really, it's beyond belief that the party opposite have chosen that the party opposite have chosen today to shine a spotlight on the subject of welfare, when their record on this area is one of failure, chaos and incompetence. Under the previous conservative government, welfare spending ballooned out of control. The final OBR forecast on their watch projected annual welfare spending to increase by close to £100 billion by 20 2829 £100 billion enough to fund the entire NHS for a year.

Instead, it was spent patching up the consequences of conservative failure. They now want to run from that record. The Leader of the Opposition has even called for a totally different approach to welfare, different to the one she herself supported in government. So who did she appoint as her Shadow Chancellor? The very Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who oversaw this overspending? When they say they've changed, I say look at their front bench. The architects of failure are still drawing up the plans.

And what a failure it was. Under the shadow Chancellor's watch, over 800,000 people left the labour market. What does it say about a government when hundreds of thousands give up looking for work? These people had lost hope. That's not just money lost in tax revenue. It's a parent who can no longer work because they're on an NHS waiting list. It's a young person with mental health challenges left behind by cuts to mental health services.

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way. I'm listening as always to his

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I'm listening as always to his his wise words and he presents his case very well. But honestly, has he forgotten the pandemic? Will he give any credit to the incumbent for managing that? Does he talk to

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for managing that? Does he talk to businesses. That. Are still in business? Thanks to

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Are still in business? Thanks to the work that was done. At that time? And will he just grow up. In his attacks on. This side.

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This side. And what we had to manage? I hope to goodness. The party. that.

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that. If it does, I hope. well. Yeah.

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Yeah. I, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention and obviously the pandemic was a factor, obviously the pandemic was a factor, but you cannot blame every government policy failure on government policy failure on external factors. All governments have to deal with external factors. have to deal with external factors. And the I'll make some progress. We're looking at unpaid carers who We're looking at unpaid carers who had to leave their jobs because the conservatives never fixed social care behind every one of those care behind every one of those 800,000 people outside the labour market is a tragic story of wasted opportunity, and a conservative government that looks the other way.

This abject failure hits constituencies like mine in North Durham, with a higher number of economically inactive people than the national average. The hardest contrast that with the record of this Labour government in our first year in office, economic inactivity has fallen and employment is up 730 000, more people are in work and there are 360,000 fewer working age people out of work and not looking for work. Since we entered office. That's 360,000 stories of lives moving forward, new parents able to get back into the workplace, people off NHS waiting lists, waiting lists.

Thanks to our record investment, young people accessing training. Behind every one of these stories is a Labour government that refused to accept wasted opportunity. There is still so much left to do to fix the mess we inherited from the opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition, the Shadow Chancellor and the party opposite. But I am proud to be supporting a Labour government that wants to support people into work so that they can get on with their

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lives. Peter Bedford thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The welfare.

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The welfare. Bill is out of control, a system with laudable aims, designed to act as a safety net for those who fall
17:59
Peter Bedford Portrait Mr Peter Bedford MP (Mid Leicestershire, Conservative)
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as a safety net for those who fall on hard times, has become a not only threatens the nation's finances, but also the spirit of hard work and self-reliance. This is why I am supporting the conservative motion today, because my conservative colleagues and I believe in fairness. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are the party of the strivers, the men and women who rise early, work long hours and provide for their families. The shopkeeper opening up before dawn, the construction worker on all on on sites, all weather and the parents balancing multiple jobs.

These are the people who make Britain great, the people who keep our economy going and keep our communities alive. Yet this government is letting people down. They see many gaming the system, all whilst their taxes continue to rise to fund a welfare bill that is spiralled out of control. And of course, I understand there must always be a safety net. And I say that as someone who has lived experience of being on the breadline growing up, but this safety net has turned into a fishing net, a culture that promotes the idea that it is okay not to work.

That is fine for others to pay for your lifestyle choices and is acceptable to rely on the state forever. Since the general election, we have seen over 1 million more people added to Universal Credit. Madam Deputy Speaker, 1 million more people. For all the government's talk of saving the NHS and helping people back into work, the numbers tell a

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different story. When I'll give way. To congratulate him, because I

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To congratulate him, because I think his audience here in the chamber is bigger than his own. Party leader's speech on welfare Party leader's speech on welfare earlier today, the. What I would suggest is could you look back to suggest is could you look back to his party's record in government when it comes to the NHS? Because I'm sure as the intelligent man I I'm sure as the intelligent man I think he is and I consider him a friend. Does he agree with me that larger NHS waiting lists, which his party left actually increase the benefit bill? Does he agree with

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benefit bill? Does he agree with that easy to accept premise? When the conservatives left left

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When the conservatives left left office, there were just 2 million people on Universal Credit for health related reasons. Today, that health related reasons. Today, that number stands at 3 million. A remarkable increase that highlights the sheer lack of action by this the sheer lack of action by this government to get welfare under control. It tells the younger generation that aspiration is no generation that aspiration is no longer the British way, and that is easier to depend on the state than to strive.

While the government to strive. While the government continues to spend. It is our constituents, hard pressed taxpayers who are footing the bill. taxpayers who are footing the bill. We in this House would be wise to remember there is no such thing as public money. There is only taxpayers money. And unfortunately, Madam Deputy Speaker, taxpayers are getting a rough deal. Our approach is different. Only the Conservative Party is on the side of the taxpayer. We have a government that published proposals to save £5 billion in welfare spending, which was a small I'll give way.



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I mean, listening to members opposite talk about what they're doing. Government is like me talking about taking a penalty in a talking about taking a penalty in a World Cup final, and I've had the ability to get there, or the ability when I get there to do it. ability when I get there to do it. But when I when I look at the opposition, they left us with a Pip opposition, they left us with a Pip with Pip claimants for mental health reasons of 1.4 million, but 1.2 million mental health waiting lists.

That's 217,000. In the Midlands, where the gentleman represents Bedford.

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represents Bedford. Yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Anyway, going back to the five, Anyway, going back to the five, going back to the to the £5 billion of welfare savings the government of welfare savings the government announced, which was a small but important step in the right direction in which we on these benches would have supported. Yet they embarrassingly conceded to the hard left in the Labour Party, so hard left in the Labour Party, so that we are now in the perverse position that their welfare changes will now invariably end up costing will now invariably end up costing the taxpayer more and not achieve even the smallest savings they even the smallest savings they intended.

And other parties who claim to be fiscally conservative are now openly supporting the removal of the two child benefit

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removal of the two child benefit cap. I'll give way. Remember the the Minister, who's no longer in his place, was in the extraordinary position of starting a debate, arguing that he needed to save 4.5 billion and ended the debate, saying he needed to spend

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an additional 300 million. Isn't that a bit odd? Yeah. He makes his point perfectly, a

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He makes his point perfectly, a move that undermines the very responsibility. To child benefit. Liverpool

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Riverside. Yeah. Oh, go on, I'll give way. I thank.

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The hon. Member for giving way hungry. Yeah. Of course.

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Yeah. Of course. Of of. Of course not. We on these

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Of course not. We on these benches know that the hard pressed taxpayer deserves better. And I'm proud that the shadow Secretary of proud that the shadow Secretary of State has outlined tough but fair proposals to cut the welfare bill. proposals to cut the welfare bill. Our plan to make work pay, to stop the unfair gaming of the system, the unfair gaming of the system, and to make savings of £23 billion to the benefit of the Exchequer. First, we will clamp down on the ridiculous system that enables ridiculous system that enables people with mild health conditions to receive thousands of pounds from the state, when people with the the state, when people with the exact same conditions go out to work and pay their dues.

Secondly, we will reduce fraud and error in we will reduce fraud and error in the system by bringing back face to face assessments. These assessments act as a means of ensuring that act as a means of ensuring that support is in the right hands. And finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Conservative Party will restrict benefits for non-UK nationals. We all know that migrants are attracted to coming to the UK because of our welfare system. Perhaps being too generous. The welfare system should be there for British people.

I'm not giving away. The welfare system should be there for British people that need it or not. For others that perhaps just want it. We on these benches will never apologise for believing in aspiration over dependency.

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Yeah. Doctor Jeevun Sandher. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. That's very kind of you all. Today's motion, Madam Deputy Speaker, represents the same failed, Speaker, represents the same failed, punitive and cruel social security system. The party opposite had for 14 years a system that did not help people into good jobs, a system that did not even get down. Social Security spending, a system that Security spending, a system that only led to destitution. A by contrast, our approach is to create good jobs, get good trading, and help people into those jobs.

Let's help people into those jobs. Let's talk about the record of the party opposite. Let's talk about the rise in employment, the rise in in employment, the rise in employment was not of those they punished. Non-graduate employment
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Jeevun Sandher Portrait Dr Jeevun Sandher MP (Loughborough, Labour)
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punished. Non-graduate employment fell from when we were in office at about 72% to 68% when they left office. The rise in jobs, the rise in those who did those jobs were not the non-graduates they were punishing. They weren't those they drove into destitution. The people who took those jobs were the increasing number of graduates. And what was the cruelty they put forward, the sanctions that saw someone sanctioned because they went to their dead wife's funeral, the sanctions that saw someone get punished because they went to a job interview, sanction after sanction, cruelty after cruelty, and the same cuts, the cuts that led to 3 million foodbank parcels being handed out.

I didn't know what a food bank was when I was growing up, and every single one of us in this chamber knows what they are today. We see the growing destitution, the homelessness before us, and what we did not see was that any improvement in our country, no economic growth, no extra good jobs, cruelty and futility. That was what the party opposite record was. And you think about where we are today, what is it we actually need to do to ensure that people do live decent jobs? Now, we know in this country to live a decent life for a working family, they need to have two parents earning about £35,000 each.

But 80% of this country, the average wage is less than that for full time work. About 40% of jobs pay less than £35,000, and going beyond that as well. Would they like to intervene.

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Just to? Go on?

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Go on? To to to quote the shadow Secretary of before, the hon. Gentleman thinks he's so clever, arguing with facts that are not particularly appreciated by the other side. Does he agree with me, perhaps, that what's important in this debate is the people that were left destitute by their policies, government?

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I agree. More. And when we go forward at this moment about how to create a good moment about how to create a good life for people, ensure they have good jobs to go into, be the first to ensure that we create those good to ensure that we create those good jobs. We to ensure that the training to get there and the support they need to get there. And that's exactly what this government that's exactly what this government is doing. We're creating good jobs by working with the private sector.

Our industrial strategy is showing that actually the private sector needs the support they have to work with businesses. And yes, of course, with trade unions to ensure we're with trade unions to ensure we're creating good jobs for people to get into. We're ensuring that we get to the green economy and expand get to the green economy and expand our healthcare jobs. They are good jobs for people to get into creating the good jobs people need. creating the good jobs people need. But more than that, the training that people need to get into it.

that people need to get into it. And from our work on the social security system, ensuring that people can try work without the fear of losing their Social Security payments, that's the difference between us and the party opposite. It is a difference in values. We believe that every single person should be able to live and afford a decent life. We need to create good jobs for them to move into. We believe the job of the government is to work with the private sector, to create those jobs and create those jobs directly, to ensure people can work and earn a decent wage, not be punitive, not being cruel, not leading to more destitution.

That is a difference between our side and the party opposite, and I'm proud to be on our side. I don't know how the

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party opposite feels today. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Sarah Bool. Thank you.
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Sarah Bool Portrait Sarah Bool MP (South Northamptonshire, Conservative)
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Sarah Bool. Thank you. To. Every one of us in this chamber. Indeed, generations of MPs before us want to help and improve before us want to help and improve the lives of our constituents. And this is why this debate is so important today, and we really have to tackle it now. The issues with welfare go back generations. Now we talk about the welfare state as we know it now is coming in the fallout of the end of the Second World War with Clement Attlee and the establishment of the NHS.

But history of welfare goes so much further back. You look to 1911, when you had the National Insurance Act, which introduced insurance against sickness, invalidity and, unusually at that time, unemployment. But actually if you look at welfare, you go, well, well back further than that, you go back to Henry the Eighth with the abolition of the monasteries, because it was the monasteries that used to provide the charity and the care for the infirm and the needy. And then since then you have seen the development of welfare in various different people struggled with.

But you see, with the development of the poor laws, the development of the friendly societies. So it has been a subject of great change. So just put it in this context that this has been something going on for generations. Now again, anyone coming to this topic I appreciate comes with the best of intentions. I think there was sort of consensus that welfare reform is needed, but the way in which the provision of welfare is developed at the moment is entirely damaging both to the public purse and also to those who are caught in the welfare net itself.

Now, I really feel like the welfare state today has become like the modern day helicopter parent. Now, for any of those who don't know, a helicopter parent is one who hovers over their child like a helicopter in every aspect of their life, managing their children's experiences and feeling like you always need to be involved in order to solve problems. But we know that's not healthy for the child to be in. They can feel smothered, they're unable to develop, and they become trapped.

And this is what is happening with our current welfare system. It is trapping people and it is not giving them the opportunities. Of course, I'll give them a what?

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The hon. Lady agree with me that. Actually the constituent I recently met was made unemployed in 2020 during the Covid pandemic, 2020 during the Covid pandemic, struggled ever since to find and hold down a job, had an autism diagnosis and it's only since this diagnosis and it's only since this government started improving the system that she's had access to a disability trained job coach who's disability trained job coach who's now supported her to get some volunteering, move into a college course, and she's now got a job ahead of her.

That's the difference between what we are doing in grasping the system and tackling its challenges.

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its challenges. And I thank the hon. Lady for intervention. I am very sorry that that was the experience that your constituent had faced. If a constituent had faced. If a constituent faced. But again, it is good that she has managed to get that into that opportunity to work. that into that opportunity to work. And that's the thing. This is the difference. Changes need to be made. What we are coming to the chamber What we are coming to the chamber here today is to try and find a route through for all of us.

This is why our leader has offered that is why our leader has offered that help. And I think one of the big issues I have is the language that is being used in this chamber all the time. This is a very difficult the time. This is a very difficult and sometimes uncomfortable conversation, but it is absolutely essential that we take the action that is needed. Sentiments like that is needed. Sentiments like living within your means, which I think all of our constituents have to from day to day, should not be replaced by words like austerity replaced by words like austerity and then slamming it down.

That is not helpful to any debate or for any of our constituents. We always ask our constituents to look after their money. Money in, money out. We have to do the same. The government has to do the same. And it depends on what your view of the government is. Now, if you want the government to be involved in absolutely every element of everyone's lives, then so be it. But do expect cost rises and inefficiencies and for abuse of the system. What the most compassionate thing is to put people on the path, to take their own opportunities, to have their own jobs and to grow from that.

That is what we are trying to get to a place today. Sometimes we are too involved and we are not creating the system of fairness that we are all seeking and given the sums of money that we are talking about, is even more imperative that we grasp this nettle now. It cannot be right or fair. That sickness benefit pays £2,500 more a year than someone living on the National Living Wage. So we are responsible. Government has to take proper action to tackle this.

And this is why the Conservative Party have come forward with their proposals. That would reduce spending by 23, £23 billion through our £47 billion plan for saving. Now really depends sits with the government. It is entirely with you to take this actions that the actions that your constituents are asking for. And rather than dismiss our solutions as is constantly being done here, perhaps take on some of those solutions,

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take up our offer for help and improve the welfare system. Thank you.

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Thank you. I call Brian Leishman. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Although I am currently sitting as an independent MP, I am still a proud Labour Party member. But instead of preoccupying member. But instead of preoccupying myself with other parties stances, opinions and views that I have absolutely no control whatsoever
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Brian Leishman Portrait Brian Leishman MP (Alloa and Grangemouth, Independent)
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absolutely no control whatsoever over, all I care about is where Labour are and what Labour do. I wholeheartedly agree with any Labour Party member? Whenever they say that it's our party's mission now, reason for being to lift people out of poverty. After all, that's one of the main reasons why I joined. And in 2020, for 411, Labour members were elected to provide change. It was an effective campaign message. But 16 months on and we still have the wicked and cruel two child benefit cap.

There has been promises of that. We are looking at it that we will do it when the fiscal situation allows and improves, but ultimately it's still not been done regularly. I hear people on my side of the house shouting 14 years and pointing a finger and let me just say, I understand the role playing in the game, playing that that involves. And everyone knows that. The conservatives and I say this with all respect to all members, everyone knows that the conservative government, in my opinion, certainly was a cruel shambles last 14 years that punched down on the most vulnerable people in society.

But they're out. We're in. This is a Labour government. But it's things like retaining the two child benefit cap that we are being judged on. If you think I will be happy to take an intervention, no. If you think I'm wrong or making life awkward, then what I say to colleagues is have a look at the polls, listen to what people are saying. Because what I hear from people on the doorstep and out campaigning is anger at things like the two child benefit cap, winter fuel, WASPI women, welfare cuts.

When will the leadership appreciate that the people impacted by these things are our people, our class? Instead of chasing disaffected Tory right wing votes, what about looking after our core vote? The bottom line is that we must do more to lift people out of poverty and improve living standards. To not do that is just a poverty of ambition. We are the Labour Party and we are in government going government by real

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Labour Party values. James Asser Ashley Fox. Madam Deputy.

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Madam Deputy. Speaker. Britain's welfare system was created as a safety net. It's a created as a safety net. It's a system designed to protect people in hardship through no fault of their own. But today that net is their own. But today that net is becoming a trap. A trap for individuals, for families and for individuals, for families and for this country. Any welfare system must be fair, providing support for those who truly need it, and a
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Ashley Fox Portrait Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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those who truly need it, and a reward for those who do the right thing. Those who get up in the morning, go to work and provide for their families. Right now, too many people feel that doing the right thing is being punished, not rewarded, right? Under Britain, under Labour, Britain has stopped working and that is because for too many it has stopped making sense to work. There are good fiscal reasons why we plan to cut welfare spending by £23 billion, but there is a moral argument to by making work pay less and welfare pay more, the government is incentivising welfare over work and this is profoundly unfair.

We have one of the best examples in the two child benefit cap. We all know the Chancellor is going to announce its removal in the budget. She will no doubt be supported by the Liberal Democrats, by reform UK and by other high spending left wing parties. And she does so because she and the Prime Minister are terrified of their own backbenchers. The Prime Minister now says that the welfare reforms he is carrying out strike the right balance. Who does he think believes that? Madam Deputy Speaker, the Prime Minister is like brave Sir Robin in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Brave Sir Keir ran away bravely, ran away when danger reared its ugly head. He bravely turned his tail and fled. Bravest of the brave, Sir Keir. He was forced to retreat and turn a bill designed to save money into one that actually cost the taxpayer more. So why are we conservatives committed to keeping it? Not just because there is a limit on what the state can afford, but because it's also a question of fairness. Millions of families across Britain make careful choices about whether they can afford a child or not.

Why should a taxpayer who has decided not to afford a third or subsequent child be asked to subsidise one?

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For someone that isn't working? Here, here, here, here. Happy to give way.

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Happy to give way. the Member for giving way. My constituent who lost her husband after they made a decision to have after they made a decision to have three children together as working taxpayers. Should she have? Was that a lifestyle choice? That her

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that a lifestyle choice? That her husband died and she needed the help that she had contributed for? I'm grateful for intervention.

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I'm grateful for intervention. Of course, when we design welfare rules, it has to be for the whole of the economy and all of our of the economy and all of our people. And I believe that this three the two child benefit cap is fair under this Labour government. Unemployment has risen every month Unemployment has risen every month since they took office, 5000 people a day are now signing on to sickness benefit, thanks in part to sickness benefit, thanks in part to the chancellor's jobs tax.

Graduate jobs have fallen by a third. And jobs have fallen by a third. And what is the response of this government? More tax, more government? More tax, more borrowing, more spending and more excuses. When the Chancellor breaks excuses. When the Chancellor breaks her promise and raises taxes again in the budget, what will her excuse be? Will it perhaps be because of be? Will it perhaps be because of 14 years of conservative government, this mythical black hole that only she and her backbenchers can see, but OBR can't find it? Or perhaps the pandemic.

Or perhaps it's all because of Brexit. Her excuses are growing increasingly thin, and the people who elect us know this. They know it's the Chancellor's fault. We will cut welfare spending by focusing support on those who truly need it. Are not those that can work, but choose not to. We will use those savings to get the economy working again for individuals and for businesses. We will scrap punitive taxes on family businesses, family farms and local shops. We will abolish stamp duty because when people can buy a home, when businesses can hire and grow, Britain prospers.

We respect the fact that taxpayers are already paying too much. We respect small businesses that can't just pass on additional costs to someone else, and we respect the next generation who deserve to inherit opportunity, and not just the debts of this

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Labour government. Chris Vince. Thank you madam. Thank you. Madam Deputy. Speaker, and it's.

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Speaker, and it's. A pleasure. To speak in this debate. And can I particularly pay tribute to my. I just left my hon. Friend for Loughborough for doing a speech without any notes, which I think is particularly commendable at the
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Chris Vince Portrait Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )
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particularly commendable at the moment. Madam Deputy Speaker, you will be aware that my thoughts are very much dominated by thoughts about babies. What's incredible is that human babies are so reliant on their parents and guardians. They need us to feed them. They need to clothe them. They need us to bathe them and to keep them warm. My thought on this took me to consider how, from such humble beginnings, the human race has been so successful creating societies, creating communities, creating the fibre optic cable in Harlow as a local plug.

Then I realised it's exactly these vulnerabilities which are why human beings form societies, form communities. It's not just it's not only human nature to support one another. It's essential. I believe it was Mahatma Gandhi that said society should be treated. It should be judged on how it treats its most vulnerable. The original motion talks about a moral duty to stop benefits for certain people. And I have to be honest, I don't like that wording, even though I do recognise there is a need for welfare reform.

But I feel there needs to be a hell of a great deal more meat on the bones about what they mean by low level mental health issues. It also talks about government failure to get people on benefits back into work. I mean, come on, give us a chance. I would gently point out that inactivity rows under their watch and UK. The UK was the only G7 country whose employment rate was still lower than before the pandemic. Yeah, I do support the government in its role to get people back into work and the inactivity Trailblazer scheme to form local solutions to tackle this issue is really welcome.

Having worked gone from I'm going to talk about being a teacher later because I do that in every speech. But having worked for a homeless charity, I know that the reasons that people are out of work for long period of time is complex, and it often varies. So those local solutions are really important. I'm going to make some progress, I make I'm going to get my teacher point. I may have mentioned a few times in this house that I used to be a teacher, and when I visit Harlow schools and colleges, I am blown away by the talent young people we have and I want the best for them.

High quality, high quality jobs and ambition. That doesn't just mean a glass ceiling and stopping at a lifetime on benefits. I genuinely believe that getting people to meaningful employment can and will help some of the mental health issues that people suffer. And I've seen that through my work working for a homeless charity. So I welcome employment advisers into GP surgeries and into mental health institutions. One way to get people back into work is by getting NHS waiting lists down.

I know a number of self-employed people in Harlow that are really struggling because of the huge impact long waiting lists have on them getting back to work, and this government is funding NHS not just for now, but for the future. I would add gently that the number of people claiming unemployment benefits has actually gone down over the last year under this government, and this is something we should welcome. I also welcome the review into to Pip, and I absolutely am glad that my right hon.

Friend from East Ham is

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leading the charge on this important piece of work. To give way on that point. I will give way.

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I will give way. Thank you very much. I thank the Member for giving way. We've heard a lot of nonsense from the party opposite. Recently. We've had a opposite. Recently. We've had a nursery rhyme. We had the claim from the member from South Northamptonshire that the first Northamptonshire that the first instance of welfare in this country was the monasteries under Henry the Eighth. But to take that example, Eighth. But to take that example, what happened when Thomas Cromwell came in to advise King Henry the Eighth was that he realised that they needed reform.

They weren't working. It was extremely difficult. And in government they two very And in government they two very difficult acts of Parliament to dissolve those monasteries and to get the wealth back out to people. get the wealth back out to people. So does the member agree with me that the difficult act of government is actually to reform these things, rather than just to

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these things, rather than just to complain about them retrospectively. I thank my hon. Friend, my gallant friend, for his gallant friend, for his intervention. I can't pretend to be a huge historian. I don't know a a huge historian. I don't know a great deal about the selling of the monasteries. However, I take his point about the difficult decisions that governments need to make. And reform is really important. And there's so many things that we've been left to look at in terms of reform.

As a former teacher, I reform. As a former teacher, I always mention it. Obviously, reform is a huge one that needs to be on the agenda. I say I welcome the review being led by my hon. Friend from East Ham. After I left teaching, I worked for homeless charity and did help to help clients with pitfall pitfalls. They are cumbersome and I would encourage people from my constituency to participate in that review, either through the formal process or by writing to me.

I will make sure that their feedback gets to Minister Timms, and I also recognise the importance. The one thing that I would agree with on the conservative motion is about the need for more face to face assessments. It's right to say that the number of assessments went down because of Covid. Of course they did, but it is really important that we get back to those face to face, face to face Pip assessments. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, one of my top priorities in this place is to draw all young people in Harlow have the opportunity, the aspiration to succeed not just for the good of the community, of our society, but actually for

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themselves. Hitchin James Wild. Thank. You very much. Madam Deputy Speaker. Hon.

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Madam Deputy Speaker. Hon. Members in this debate have mentioned the record of the last government. So I think it's worth putting on the record that under
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James Wild Portrait James Wild MP (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
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putting on the record that under the last government, there were 4 million jobs created, youth unemployment, half a million more disabled people moved into work. But sadly, under this government, we've already seen unemployment rise every single month they've been in office. They're going to have the record that every Labour government has had of leaving unemployment higher than they inherited, and the number of people on health and sickness benefits is increasing significantly under this government. 5000 people every day are being signed on to long term sickness benefits, which is a doubling from the rate pre-COVID.

Simply put, our welfare system is not sustainable nor fair. It's not fair for taxpayers. It's not fair for people who are left on benefits without the support that they need. Yet Labour members opposite have blocked welfare reforms, and the Prime Minister and Chancellor clearly lack the backbone to get on with this urgent work. The Chancellor's panicked speech this morning underlined that serious welfare reform is not any part of their agenda, but it should be common cause across the House that we understand the value and dignity of work.

The moral case for change mentioned in our motion could not be clearer. We must protect the vulnerable and help those who can work to get the support in order to do so. Because work is not just about pay, it's about the pride. It's about the personal responsibility. It's about the health benefits that come from this. Government is failing to help people who want work to find it. A welfare system worthy of the name should help people up, not hold them down. And we'll judge this government by its record.

On unemployment, as I've said, is increasing in sickness. Claims are going up. Helping people is why, when we're in government, my friend for Chingford and Woodford Green, he was in the debate earlier, introduced Universal Credit to simplify welfare reward work and halved unemployment. Between 2010 and the pandemic, we were making real progress and of course, the pandemic made a real challenge for us and we saw a rise in those claims, particularly for mental health. The shadow Chancellor, whose name has been taken in vain, actually put in place a number of reforms which were going to drive down the claims that were coming through.

He put in place universal support to help people he put in place working well, which is a great scheme that I've seen making effects in Norfolk. But the big point is welfare spending on health and disability benefits is set to hit £100 billion by the end of this parliament, a point made by the hon. Gentleman opposite. That's twice what we spend on defence. And yet what do we see? A government with no serious intent of bringing that total down. Indeed, the Pip review that's been announced, it's not going to report for ages, specifically excludes savings from its terms of reference.

And now, despite the increasing taxes, the government is apparently going to lift the two child policy, which my hon. Member has already made a good argument as to why that shouldn't happen, so I won't repeat it. It poses a question why, despite in this debate critiquing the last government for spending too much on welfare, do they not have a plan to do anything? They could look at the plan that the shadow Secretary of State has set out, that would deliver £23 billion across the board and in doing that, we should be guided, I would argue, by conservative principles living within our means, protecting the most vulnerable, making sure work always pays and those who can work.

Do we have a duty to ensure the system is fair and sustainable? And from the moment the hon. Members opposite blocked their own reforms, we've seen a government with no ideas. A Chancellor who is clear that spending restraint does not form any part of her plans. Taxes are going up, welfare spending is going up. There is an alternative. Back our motion and build a welfare

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system that truly works for Britain. Hear, hear. Well. Oliver Ryan. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to briefly for allowing me to briefly contribute to this huge topic. Well, I'm glad to discuss welfare reform. I am quite perplexed as to why the I am quite perplexed as to why the benches opposite would want to, with their completely disastrous record, and just holding to the record, and just holding to the comment that was made by the member before me, I wonder whether he has read the plans for their £23 billion read the plans for their £23 billion worth of welfare cuts on the back of the packet on which it is
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Oliver Ryan Portrait Oliver Ryan MP (Burnley, Labour )
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and it's a hope that we forget what they left, which was only last year, and forget what they were like in government employment lower than government employment lower than before the pandemic, 10 million households being net recipients now of government support, 4.5 million of government support, 4.5 million children growing up in poverty. Waiting lists, 2.8 million people Waiting lists, 2.8 million people left languishing out of work, a million young people out of work, left jobless in the worst sort of left jobless in the worst sort of straits of their lives, all while record welfare spending billions record welfare spending billions spent every year on failure.

Indeed, under the shadow Chancellor, as we've heard at the time, I made the we've heard at the time, I made the point earlier during his time at the DWP, we saw the biggest rise in welfare spending on record since records began in 1996 £33 billion in records began in 1996 £33 billion in one year alone. They have zero credibility on this issue and a credibility on this issue and a record of expensive failure and a disastrous legacy, which they ought to be utterly ashamed of.

They left people in this country languishing people in this country languishing on benefits, left out of work, and left us to pick up the bill for left us to pick up the bill for years to come. Now, I've touched on their plan, so I won't go more of that any more. But all I will say is it feels a little bit. It feels a little bit like the arsonist

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stood next to you watching the house on fire, complaining. Someone should really put that out. Yeah.

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Yeah. Someone should really put that out. Having started the fire. I'm brief on time because I want to say brief on time because I want to say something about reform. Real reform, and not the sort of turquoise Tories over there who are not here Tories over there who are not here for the debate. I notice who I believe would destroy the welfare system. As we understand it, welfare spending must come down. We welfare spending must come down. We all know that.

We all want to get people into work. Young people, disabled people, those who can and want and should work. The current system doesn't enjoy public support your system because of the failure and because of your failure, and risks undermining the whole welfare state and social contract as we know it. Hence our reforms earlier this year. If we believe in helping this year. If we believe in helping those who really need it the disabled, the sick, those unable to work, those who the welfare state work, those who the welfare state is for, we must make the tough choices that they didn't over those 14 years to make it happen.

The 14 years to make it happen. The current front door for the welfare capability work capability assessment isn't fit for purpose, assessment isn't fit for purpose, and I'm glad that we're doing away with it. But actually, neither is the assessment for Pip personal independence payments, as it's considered by many to be out of date and unfit for the modern wave of claimants living with mental health conditions. And likewise, and I welcome the Minister's thoughts on whether more reform in this area would be welcome and will come.

The arguments made for reform explored earlier this year in those papers still stand, and there are too many people rolling onto Pip, too many failing and falling out of work ill, too many not re-entering the job market, having done so. So I'm glad that we're stimulating more people into work through things like our billion pounds Pathways to Work guarantee. Because of the sheer size of applicants and particularly successful applicants since the pandemic, we have a consideration of we have to consider the appropriateness of some of the thresholds for people currently applying for Pip to ensure that the support is still there for those who really need it.



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Thank you. Kirsty Blackman much. Madam Deputy Speaker. It's interesting to hear what's being put forward considering this lot created the welfare system that we currently have and this lot are currently have and this lot are keeping going with it. I mean, the reality is that the mini budget that crashed the that massively that crashed the that massively changed house prices and meant that mortgage interest rates went up through the roof, for example, is through the roof, for example, is contributed to the cost of living crisis.

The reality is that Brexit has meant that we are all worse off. has meant that we are all worse off. The reality is that the UK Labour government now the economy is not growing, there's not a creation of jobs. We've still got a massive issue with productivity. For example, we still have an incredibly broken system and the incredibly broken system and the problem is Westminster. It's all of you. Every one of you on both sides have contributed to the current have contributed to the current system that we have.

People are not standing up here today talking about the fact that we've got child about the fact that we've got child poverty and what the welfare system should be doing is improving that system. So we do not have so much system. So we do not have so much child poverty. Child poverty is reducing in Scotland. The poverty strategy, the child poverty strategy, the child poverty strategy was pushed back from the spring to the autumn. Now the Minister is saying that the end of the year.

And the other thing that the right hon. Gentleman said when he stood up was he's going to seek the support of the House for our mission. Actually, he's not. What he's going to do tonight is vote against the Tory motion. He's not there's nothing not an amendment put forward by the government laying out their plans for what they intend to do. And on the Tory motion, it is a complete and total mess. The Tories seem to be trying
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Kirsty Blackman Portrait Kirsty Blackman MP (Aberdeen North, Scottish National Party)
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to assign value to humans. They tend to be seem to be saying that as long as you're earning a significant amount of money, as significant amount of money, as long as you were born in the UK and you're a British citizen, you're okay if you're not. If you don't okay if you're not. If you don't fit in those boxes, you are somehow less valuable. Both sides have been making the argument that and stressing that almost you're either on with the welfare system, you're either getting universal credit or getting benefits, or you're in work.

Those two things are not mutually Those two things are not mutually exclusive. We have a significant number of people for whom work does not pay, with a significant number of people who are whose income has to be supported by the welfare system because of the economy that system because of the economy that you both created, means that they are not getting enough money to be able to pay for the basic things able to pay for the basic things that they need, means that the fact that the cost of butter and olive oil and potatoes and rice has gone through the roof, that they cannot through the roof, that they cannot afford their energy bills as a result of the rampant inflation that there is and continues to be, that there is and continues to be, as a result of the fact that wages have not kept pace with that.

It is the case that this cost of living crisis continues to bite. The current welfare system is not current welfare system is not reducing poverty. It is also, but it is also having to support people who are currently in work because they're not getting enough money. If you're assigning value to humans, if you're saying actually that those people who don't who aren't UK citizens don't necessarily deserve benefits, I think it's really interesting that you're going to have a very interesting conversation with those expats in Spain, with those expats in Canada, with whom we've got Social Security reciprocal arrangements, who will be immensely furious that they will no longer be eligible for any of the support that they receive from those governments.

I think it's a bizarre situation for the conservatives to support this position, given how many of those expats will be conservative voters and are going to be monumentally stuffed as a result of the Tory position on this, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that we're standing here listening to them. Who created this system, arguing about how terrible it is, what we should be doing, what we should be doing. No thank you. What we should be doing in the budget, what we should be doing in the child poverty strategy, is talking about how the welfare system should support people, is talking about how the welfare system fails to support people.

I wish the hon. Gentleman well in his work that he is doing co-producing things. The welfare system is currently broken and it is not because the costs are spiralling out of control. The welfare system is currently broken

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because people are being demonised simply for claiming enough to live. On order. I call Shadow Minister

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Rebecca Smith. Yes. Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, and I want.
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Rebecca Smith Portrait Rebecca Smith MP (South West Devon, Conservative)
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To just start this debate by acknowledging the fact that you don't know that much about me. And so this debate so far has saddened so this debate so far has saddened me slightly. This caricature of conservatives who don't care because, like my colleague who was in his place earlier, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green, I am entirely motivated by social justice and caring for the most vulnerable, as are many of my colleagues on the conservative benches.

And indeed, it was my right hon. Friend from Chingford and Woodford Green who founded the centre for Social Justice, which I know feeds in a huge amount of work into what the party opposite is doing as well. So I just want to kind of set the record straight. We just differ in how we help and but we are also being that voice for the voiceless, the people who are those hard working individuals and families who want the system to be fair for them as well as the most vulnerable.

So that's why I believe that reforming Britain's welfare system is a moral imperative. As conservatives, we believe in the dignity of work. We believe that work provides purpose, independence and ultimately a path from poverty to prosperity. We want to empower people to take control of their own lives, not abandon them to a lifetime on benefit. But right now, as we've heard multiple times this afternoon, work simply does not pay. A person on sickness. Benefits can get between 2500 and £5,000 more per year than a worker on the minimum wage, something that my constituents have been at pains to make sure that I am aware of when they are hard working business owners who can't believe that those figures mean that somebody working is less often less well off than somebody who isn't faced with such a disparity.

It is easy to understand why living off welfare is a more attractive option for many. I am a conservative because I believe in personal responsibility and living within our means. I see our welfare system as a safety net for the most vulnerable, not a lifestyle choice. As has been mentioned several times in this debate. However, this safety net has reached its breaking point by 2030, around £1 in every £4 of incom tax will be spent on health and disability benefits. That is nearly £100 billion and eye watering sum that surpasses our entire defence budget.

Only the conservatives have a realistic and sustainable plan for reforming the welfare system. We will get more people into work while providing support for those facing genuine need. Now, when our government left office, over 4 million more people were in work than in 2010, youth unemployment had fallen by nearly. I'm going to make some progress, if I may. Youth unemployment had fallen by nearly 380,000, giving far more young people the security of a meaningful career. However, under this government, the unemployment rate is set to reach 5% by next year, compared with 4.1% a year ago.

We've already heard that graduate jobs have gone down by a third since last year, and we have a million young people not in education, employment or training. So far, Order Paper have showed little appetite for making tough decisions. As we have already seen, the Prime Minister's plan to reduce welfare spending ended with a U-turn, with key measures getting ditched in a last minute attempt to win over his own MPs. I do not think, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I will ever forget the day the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Bill became simply the Universal Credit Bill.

Mid debate, parliamentary pantomime, a farce even, which encapsulates the Labour Party's inability to take welfare reform seriously. The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has admitted that his much anticipated review, being conducted by the hon. Member for East Ham, the Timms Review, will not involve any welfare cuts. This means that our public spending will continue rising, running out of control and taxes will inevitably rise at the next budget. Labour is now staring at a £9.3 billion welfare blackhole, scrapping the Personal Independence Payment reforms alone will cost 4.5 billion by 2030.

To truly encourage people into work, we need to look at long term solutions. It is easy to dish out sickness benefits. It is harder to provide the right combination of physical and physiological support to ensure that people facing challenges can keep or find meaningful employment. Yet these are the solutions we owe it to people to deliver, offering them a chance at a better future, one that is not entirely reliant on the state. That is why the conservatives have set out a clear plan that will reduce the welfare bill by £23 billion, and we urge the government to consider our proposals.

Firstly, we must prioritise British citizens in our welfare system. This means making the system fairer and preventing non-UK citizens from claiming benefits such as Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment and Carer's Allowance. Secondly, we must stop benefits for those with lower level mental health conditions. Under this government, 5000 people are being signed off work sick every single day. This figure has ballooned to twice the size it was last year, mainly because thousands of people are signing up to benefits for less severe mental health issues,

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point. I'm very grateful to her for giving way, and one of the concerns I have when we discuss mental I have when we discuss mental health in this place is we confuse mental health and mental wellbeing. Everyone has mental wellbeing challenges. We saw that in the pandemic. Not everyone has a mental health issue. For example, it's absolutely normal to get very anxious going through a driving test. It's not normal to have that response going to the supermarket. response going to the supermarket.

They have different responses that need different treatments, support and help into the workforce. While medical support for those with medical support for those with serious mental health issues. Does she agree with me? This discrepancy is so important when we debate

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policy to make sure we get the policies right for the patient, the person and the taxpayer? Yeah. I thank my hon.

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I thank my hon. Friend and I bow to his medical wisdom compared to my knowledge, but I agree with him that actually but I agree with him that actually we need to be giving people hope, and we need to ensure that our policies going forward do tackle those most severe mental health those most severe mental health problems. But if it is mental wellbeing we're talking about, we need to actually do more to make sure that those people have the sure that those people have the skills and tools to stay in work and to have that future that they could have in that way instead.

We could have in that way instead. We know that given the right support, many people benefit enormously from the social interaction and sense of the social interaction and sense of achievement that comes from regular employment. Holding down a job provides a sense of agency. Breaking the cycle of dependency, enabling access to benefits to those who we should be encouraging to work feels perverse and a dereliction of duty. Thirdly, we must increase face to face assessments for disability benefits. Since the Covid 19 restrictions, the number of face to face assessments has tanked, with 90% now happening over the phone.

This is unacceptable and has opened the door for so-called sick fluences who are coaching people online to say the right words to get the maximum amount of benefit. Insisting on in-person appointments will mitigate this, with the Chancellor now beginning to blame Covid for the economic challenges she faces, it seems that other government departments should be free to acknowledge the same and crack on with changing things back, in this case to in-person assessments. Fourthly, we must reform the Motability scheme so only those with serious disabilities qualify for a vehicle.

And I'm going to continue. Sorry, Motability is a lifeline for those with serious mobility issues. Yet under Labour, Motability costs have surged by. I'm going to continue because I'm running out of time by almost 10%. We will stop taxpayers from subsidising new cars for people with ADHD and tennis elbow, ensuring that the scheme is targeted to those with genuine mobility issues. It is not compassionate to pretend that our welfare system can solve everyone's problems. If we continue turning a blind eye to misuses of the system, it will not be robust enough to help those who need it most.

Lastly, we must keep the two child benefit cap in order to encourage people into work and to strengthen our economy. Having parents with a stable job provides the best foundation for children to better their own prospects in life. Of course, we want to see children and families thrive, but fairness requires that families on benefits should face the same decisions as those in work about whether they can afford to have another child. The conservatives are the only party who believe in keeping the cap and living within our means.

Labour reform and the Liberal Democrats would all scrap the cap, costing £3.5 billion by the end of this decade. And as I have said before, scrapping the two child benefit cap is a sticking plaster at best, like universal free school breakfast that will not tackle the root causes of poverty, something I believe we all want to do by returning to sustainable levels of welfare spending, a conservative government will build a stronger economy. These welfare savings will enable us to act stamp duty on primary residences, helping first time buyers to get onto the property ladder.

We will introduce a permanent 100% business rates relief for the retail, leisure and hospitality sector, enabling a quarter of a million businesses to invest in better premises, more staff and lower prices. And we will deliver a £5,000 first jobs bonus, giving young people a boost to their future savings or home deposit. Madam Deputy Speaker, Conservatives are the party that backs ordinary working people who play by the rules. Labour seem bent on making our country into a welfare state with an economy attached.

We urge the government to reform the welfare system. It must continue to provide support for those who need it, while refusing

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benefits. Yes.

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Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Andrew Western Portrait Andrew Western MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Stretford and Urmston, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the. Reason that we are having this debate is straightforward, because debate is straightforward, because the welfare system is broken. We have begun the job of fixing it. But the fact is that the system was broken by the party opposite. 14 years of failure on welfare until

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they were kicked out last year. And if I were in their position, madam, I will give one.

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madam, I will give one. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Does he agree with me that we should take no lectures that we should take no lectures from the people who broke the system in the first place, and in Scotland, 1 in 6 young people are Scotland, 1 in 6 young people are not in education, employment or not in education, employment or training. 12,000 Scots are stuck on NHS waiting lists for over two NHS waiting lists for over two years, and 8300 people are economically inactive in Renfrewshire alone due to ill Renfrewshire alone due to ill health.

Far from taking lectures from the members opposite, should they not look to themselves before

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they not look to themselves before lecturing us? Yes. I agree absolutely with my hon.

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I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend, as members are surprised to learn. But she makes a passionate learn. But she makes a passionate case as to why neither the SNP nor the party opposite should be listened to on this issue. Because listened to on this issue. Because if I were in the position of the party opposite, Madam Deputy party opposite, Madam Deputy Speaker, I might want to shy away. Given their unenviable record a social security system trapping hundreds of thousands who could and want to work on benefits, fraud against the public sector at eye watering levels.

With some of Dwp's powers to tackle fraud over 20 years out of date, and a generation of young people neglected. Whether that's the shameful rise in child poverty or the near million young people left out of work, education or training, the party opposite ignored every warning light on the dashboard while they drove down opportunity and drove up inactivity. They delivered the worst of all worlds. And now, Madam Deputy Speaker, they have the cheek to come to this place today and preach fiscal rectitude.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we are cleaning up the mess that they left behind. But let me turn, Madam Deputy Speaker, to some of the comments that were made throughout the debate, beginning with the shadow Secretary of State, who talked of the families for whom generations of them had experienced persistent worklessness. This is in a system that they built. Madam Deputy Speaker, I mean the example that the hon. Lady gave of the young man in Bridgend who the shadow Secretary of State says fears that they would be worse off in work.

Who created that system? Where has that disincentive come from? The party opposite entrenched that fear. But I fundamentally disagree with her analysis because Pip is an enabler of work for many people. It is to meet the additional costs of disability and to help disabled people with those day to day living costs, many of them with getting to and from the workplace. She talked about the trajectory of welfare spend. Who set us on that trajectory. We heard that Covid was to blame.

And yet 2022, 2023 and the first half of 2024 were not the ideal time to begin addressing this issue. Just July 2024. Funnily enough, Madam Deputy Speaker, they are running from their record and they are right to do so. We then heard about face to face assessments. Madam Deputy Speaker and how they are too low. I absolutely agree that the face to face assessments need to increase, but the hon. Lady would do well to remember that the contracts that we are currently signed up to were signed by the party opposite and commit the contractors to 20% face to face assessments.

So this is the problem. Madam Deputy Speaker. And then we heard from the opposition spokesperson from the Liberal Democrats, the Member for Torbay, who is not in his place, but he was right to highlight the shocking levels of economic inactivity that spiralled between 2019 and 2024, as he was to reference the state of the National Health Service. But I would just briefly correct him on his suggestion that NHS spending is being cut under this government. This government is increasing day to day NHS spending in real terms to day NHS spending in real terms by £18.5 billion by 2829 and then the Member for Mid Leicestershire an hon.

Gentleman who I like very much, came in to congratulate the Shadow Secretary of State on her £23 billion package of savings. I just hope he shares my concern, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the hon. Lady was unable to say how much of that £23 billion was coming from proposed changes to housing benefits. I hope, he noted, with the same irony that I did, that she had earlier in that speech, responded to an intervention from the hon. Member for Burnley, telling him he thought he was so clever for knowing his statistics.

If only she could say the same of her figures. We then heard from the hon. Lady from South Northamptonshire, who espoused the virtues of living within our means, which would have significantly more clout if the party opposite had done the same in the welfare space. In recent years. The Member for Bridgwater then said that under Labour, Britain had stopped working. I would remind him that more than 700,000 people more are in work now than before the election. I will not give way and economic inactivity is down by 363,000.

He said that we should respect the next generation and respect the fact too, that taxes are too high. But they left almost a million young people out of work, many trapped in a housing crisis, and left the highest tax burden since the Second World War. The Member for Aberdeen North has ever gave a very passionate speech about child poverty. I share her concerns about levels of child poverty, but it is my understanding that her government in Scotland missed their interim child poverty target in 20 2324, and then the opposition spokesperson, the Member for South West Devon.

Can I just start by saying that I know she cares? I don't question that we face each other a lot across this Dispatch Box, but we do fundamentally disagree on the best way to help people, and particularly we do so with the motion before us today. Because if we go through this motion, Madam Deputy Speaker, this House regrets the failure of the government to get people off welfare and into work, a failure, Madam Deputy Speaker of their government believes that reforming the welfare system is a moral mission.

Yes, they do now that they are in opposition and therefore calls on the government to take urgent action to fix Britain's welfare system by restricting welfare for non-UK citizens. No explanation either in any of the speeches or in the text of this as to who that applies to. Vague. Does that include those covered by the withdrawal Agreement? Those here on Ukraine and Afghan schemes, or just those who came over as part of the Boris wave? Without that sort of specificity, how could anyone support this motion? And of course, that applies to with the proposal to stop benefits for those with lower level mental health conditions.

Again, poorly defined, what is lower level mental health conditions? Pip is not condition based, in any rate. Madam Deputy Speaker, and you would hope that the party opposite would know that because they created that benefit, they then called to increase the number of face to face assessments. Well, as I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, we are keen to achieve that. We will achieve that, but we are constrained by the contracts that they sign, restricting face to face assessments to just 20%. Reforming the Motability scheme so that only those with serious disabilities qualify for a vehicle.

Again, what is a serious disability? Impossible to know from the text of this motion, or indeed any of the speeches that we have heard today? And then on the two child benefit Cap members across the House are well aware that we will shortly bring forward our child poverty strategy, that all levers available are on or under consideration. So we would never be able to support that statement at this stage. And all of this is rounded off by the line to get people into employment and build a stronger economy.

What a joke. Madam Deputy Speaker, when you consider that they left us as the only G7 country with a higher employment rate than before the pandemic. So this, Madam Deputy Speaker, like the plan that it aims to underline, is not worth the paper it is written on. And I would urge all members to oppose the

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motion. The question is, as on the Order

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say I. I of the contrary,
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None Portrait Division
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opinion, say I. I of the contrary, The The question The question is, The question is, as The question is, as on

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The question is, as on the The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as of that opinion say I. I.

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I. Of the no. Tellers for the ayes Andrew Snowden Katie Lam Tellers I I can't.

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Order, Order, order Order, order!

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Order, order! The ayes to the right. 92. The noes to the left 403. noes to the left 403.

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Yeah, yeah, both. The eyes. The right were 92. The

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The eyes. The right were 92. The noes to the left were 403. So the noes have it, the noes have it

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unlocked. Yeah. Motion number three on environmental protection. Minister to move.

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to move. I beg to move. The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that Paper, as many as are of that opinion. Say I. I of the contrary, no I think the ayes have it, the

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no I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. Petition Tom Gordon. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am presenting a petition tonight on behalf of Bno passport holders in my constituency of Harrogate and in my constituency of Harrogate and Knaresborough and beyond. The petition declares that altering the five plus one settlement route for Bno passport holders, which Bno passport holders, which currently allows them to apply for indefinite leave to remain after five years and citizenship a year five years and citizenship a year after that, which could be changed by the government, would be an unfair one.

On a community of almost 150,000 people who have made the UK their home. Following China's imposition of a national security law on Hong Kong in 2020, and are largely expecting to become eligible for indefinite leave to remain within the next year. Locally, in Harrogate and Locally, in Harrogate and Knaresborough, we have a thriving Hong Kong community who contribute in all walks of life and I'm personally very grateful to Albert personally very grateful to Albert Kam, who has helped round up over 300 signatures for this petition.

The petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urge the government to change course and keep the five plus one settlement route in place for those Bno passport holders already residing passport holders already residing in the UK, and to ensure they can continue to settle and contribute in their new lives in the UK.
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Tom Gordon Portrait Petition Tom Gordon MP (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)
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For the second time. route for British national overseas visa holders.

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Your time as well. Petition Alison Hume.

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Petition Alison Hume. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise to present the petition on specialist treatment for stroke specialist treatment for stroke patients at Scarborough Hospital, which declares that Scarborough Hospital should once again provide Hospital should once again provide specialist emergency assessment, investigation, treatment and care for patients who are potentially suffering from or have suffered from an acute stroke. My from an acute stroke. My constituents currently have to travel more than 40 miles on the travel more than 40 miles on the traffic choked A64 to York in order to be assessed and treated.

The petitioners, therefore, request petitioners, therefore, request that the House of Commons urges the government to take steps to ensure that Scarborough Hospital can once that Scarborough Hospital can once again offer timely and accessible emergency care to acute stroke emergency care to acute stroke patients in Scarborough, Whitby and

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the East Coast catchment area. Thank you. Petition specialist treatment of stroke patients at

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Scarborough Hospital. I beg to move that this House do now adjourn. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn. Brian Mathew.

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do now adjourn. Brian Mathew. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are in Remembrance Week when we remember the dead of past wars right now in Sudan, a war as murderous and
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Brian Mathew Portrait Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)
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Jim Shannon. Speaker, can I commend the hon. Gentleman for Melksham and Devices for bringing this forward? I also commend them for all the work that he did before he came here in his role at all the countries across Africa, and I respect him greatly for, for his his human desire for betterment. As chair of the Appg for Freedom of Religious Belief, I've spoken in this last year some 14 times, asked questions and others have as well in Sudan, and I've been acutely aware of the precarious situation of Christians in that region, the murder of Christians and the and wickedness that takes place.

Those those in patients and staff are murdered in hospital. I have consistently asked government to step up our support for those who are being targeted because of their faith. It grieves me, greatly, grieves him, greatly, grieves us all greatly. Does, however, not agree that we must use any and all methods at our disposal to help those desperately needy, innocent people as a matter of urgency.

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Thank you. I thank the hon. Member for his kind comments and I Member for his kind comments and I agree with him. And hopefully in this speech I'll put forward some some ideas that may, may, may prove useful. There are no UN useful. There are no UN peacekeepers on hand to even witness the killings. Current witness the killings. Current events are a continuation of a calculated political strategy to destroy an ethnically cleanse, a province that gives its name to one of the tribes, namely the.

For the Zaghawa and Meg Hillier tribes have similarly been targeted in a similarly been targeted in a strategy that began arguably well over 20 years ago. Despite over 20 years ago. Despite commendable efforts to improve international accountability. With international accountability. With support to the ICC and UN in their fact finding missions, as well as fact finding missions, as well as the efforts of many members here and our UK aid programme to raise awareness and support the Sudanese people. Clearly, what has been done
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Brian Mathew Portrait Adjournment: Government support for Sudan Brian Mathew MP (Melksham and Devizes, Liberal Democrat)
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people. Clearly, what has been done honourable.

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Member for giving way. Over 13 million people now need humanitarian aid in Sudan and millions more have been displaced, with countless others living in fear, hunger and deprivation. Does fear, hunger and deprivation. Does the hon. Member agree that for far too long, this is a crisis that has been overlooked and that for the been overlooked and that for the sake of humanity, we now need to turn our attention to Sudan and do what we can to provide aid and support to those who so desperately need it.

Yes.

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need it. Yes. I thank the hon. Member for his comments and I heartily agree with comments and I heartily agree with him. Humanitarian workers are also under threat and I would like to commend the work being done as we commend the work being done as we speak by doctor groups like Doctors Without Borders, MSF and the Without Borders, MSF and the international Red cross. MSF have been treating hundreds fleeing El Fasher over the last week, Fasher over the last week, including men, women and children suffering from severe malnutrition, gunshot wounds and other injuries linked to beatings and torture.

As a former aid worker myself, who's lived and worked in Sudan, although lived and worked in Sudan, although many years ago, I want to express my deep sadness over the killing of five Sudanese Red Crescent Society volunteers in Bara, North Kordofan. Humanitarian workers are often the first and sometimes only responders for people in desperate situations around the world, and they selflessly give their time and skills as well as their courage and

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compassion. And my heart goes out to their families. For the hon. Member.

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Please. I thank my hon. Friend for bringing this debate and giving way. bringing this debate and giving way. And would he agree with me that part of the great tragedy of Sudan part of the great tragedy of Sudan has been the way it is unfairly overshadowed by conflicts happening elsewhere in the world, and we elsewhere in the world, and we should be less squeamish about pointing that out to the public

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pointing that out to the public here in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world, I. Madam.

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Madam. I thank the honourable, my hon. Friend for his his comments, and I, I totally agree, we do need to be I totally agree, we do need to be far more outspoken on this issue. Please.

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Please. I'm grateful to the hon. Member for bringing forward this debate. for bringing forward this debate. When I read the transcript from the International Development Select Committee, I was really struck by Committee, I was really struck by the contribution by Liz Ditchburn, who said there was insufficiency in who said there was insufficiency in having a structured approach from government around this and that there needed to be focus and there needed to be focus and strategy. Does he not agree that we now need to convene in this place such focus and strategy in order to have a comprehensive response?

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I very much agree with the with the hon. Lady, and I hope that my the hon. Lady, and I hope that my speech will bring some ideas to the floor. The government needs to be floor. The government needs to be bolder, more direct and proactive in its work to support Sudan and in its work to support Sudan and the Sudanese people. As UN Security Council penholder on Sudan and lead Council penholder on Sudan and lead on the core Group on Sudan at the United Nations Human Rights Council for the Protection of Civilians, for the Protection of Civilians, it's our duty to try every possible it's our duty to try every possible avenue to push for peace and change.

We are all, I am sure, glad to see We are all, I am sure, glad to see the recent announcement by the Foreign Secretary that 5 million will be going in aid to Sudan, in will be going in aid to Sudan, in addition to the 120 million already allocated this financial year, with allocated this financial year, with 2 million specifically going to support survivors of sexual violence. This conflict has been violence. This conflict has been particularly devastating for women and girls subjected to that violence, where they often have no potential recourse or justice, or even access to the most basic even access to the most basic health services.

After being attacked, we need to look to the future and to look to recommendations from the sources that predicted the violence. Currently, ongoing prevention approaches and organisation who repeatedly, repeatedly predicted their potential for extreme violence in El Fasher has pointed towards the city of Tawila as a next step in the trajectory of the RSF strategy. I will.

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Can I congratulate. The hon. Gentleman on securing this debate? Can I also pay tribute this debate? Can I also pay tribute to my good friends from Oxford East and Rotherham for doing so much on and Rotherham for doing so much on this on this issue in January 2025, the Biden administration, the US government, said that a judge that government, said that a judge that the RSF and associated militias had committed genocide in Sudan. I've had a number of constituents from had a number of constituents from Stockport and across Greater Manchester.

Contact me from the Sudanese community about the horrors taking place in Sudan. I horrors taking place in Sudan. I wonder if the hon. Gentleman would agree with me that our own government, the UK government, should make a similar assessment of

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should make a similar assessment of its own Brian Mathew. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments and indeed I agree his comments and indeed I agree with you. So will the government do with you. So will the government do for Tawila what was not done for Al Geneina, Zamzam or El Fasher and Geneina, Zamzam or El Fasher and recognise its precariousness before it's too late? I ask the Minister if the government will use every diplomatic pressure and avenue diplomatic pressure and avenue available to secure guarantees that humanitarian assistance and aid can

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humanitarian assistance and aid can be delivered unimpeded. Please. I'm very grateful. Indeed to the hon. Member for securing this debate. It's incredibly important and indeed grateful to everyone who's participated. He mentioned the issue of impediments to aid. He will be aware that the IPC assessment, the most recent one very disturbing assessment showing that there was famine taking place in Al-fashir and in Kadugli that came out after the quad statement quad statement of the US, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE.

Does he agree on the subject of diplomatic pressure that it is really important the UK uses its influence with those members of the quad to say to them, they must pressure the belligerents to stop blocking that much needed aid in this situation of famine.

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Thank you. I completely agree with the hon.

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I completely agree with the hon. Member and thank you for raising that point. A third of children that point. A third of children under five in El Fasher are suffering from acute malnutrition, and some are resorting to eating and some are resorting to eating animal feed and plant waste to survive. I would also hope that they will do everything possible to they will do everything possible to allow humanitarian corridors open for civilians to leave the besieged for civilians to leave the besieged area, and to be assured that they are not going from the frying pan into the fire.

The supply of weaponry and military equipment is the oxygen. Keeping this conflict the oxygen. Keeping this conflict alive, we, as Penholder, should leave efforts to impose a binding, leave efforts to impose a binding, enforceable arms embargo across all of Sudan. I will. Thank you. I'm

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of Sudan. I will. Thank you. I'm grateful to him. And he urges an arms embargo.

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And he urges an arms embargo. And he urges that the UK uses its role as the penholder at the UN Security Council. But Martin Security Council. But Martin Griffiths has said that really, that a piece is likely to come out of the region through powers like of the region through powers like UAE, Saudi Arabia. Does he think that the UK should be really using

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its bilateral relations with these countries to bring peace? Yeah. I.

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I. I thank the hon. Member for his his his points and I know he has his his points and I know he has expertise in terms of, of the military. So I thank thank you for that. And if I may continue, crucially, we must also suspend crucially, we must also suspend arms sales to the United Arab Emirates. The fact that British made weapons, tools and equipment could be flowing into the hands of those perpetuating these actions is those perpetuating these actions is terrible beyond words.

I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member words of my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton. That equipment made on our soil must

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never end up in the hands of those committing such atrocities. I thank my. hon. Friend for giving way, and

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hon. Friend for giving way, and he raises an important point in his very, very powerful speech. I want to take that point further. Even if to take that point further. Even if British made weaponry is not being diverted and ending up on the battlefield in Sudan, the UK is still breaching its own arms export licensing criteria under sections licensing criteria under sections one, two, four, six and seven, and these rules do not only prohibit exporting weapons proved proven to be misused, but also restrict sales to any country that may use arms to violate international humanitarian law.

So therefore, does my hon. Friend agree that the government, in exporting arms to the UAE has been acting contrary to international humanitarian law, and we must stop selling arms to the UAE?

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Brian Mathew I agree with my hon. Friend, and we really must make Friend, and we really must make sure that that that this business with arms is stopped. The atrocities that we are witnessing atrocities that we are witnessing through the news with the work of Barbara Plett Usher, the BBC and others at the Guardian and Al others at the Guardian and Al Jazeera, and through social media trickling through the the media trickling through the the media blackout will be remembered for generations.

El Fasher like generations. El Fasher like Srebenica before it will sadly likely stand as a symbol of what happens when the world turns a

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happens when the world turns a blind eye. I will. I thank the hon. Gentleman for

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I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and congratulate him on securing this very important debate. And he has mentioned Srebrenica and And he has mentioned Srebrenica and the Bosnian conflict twice now. Does he agree with me that in years Does he agree with me that in years gone by, conflicts that are causing immense humanitarian suffering, immense humanitarian suffering, death and carnage resulted in international UN mandated military international UN mandated military forces protecting civilians and humanitarian corridors? And is it humanitarian corridors? And is it not a reflection on the sorry state of international affairs that this doesn't even seem to be on the table as an option, despite this being the greatest humanitarian

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crisis that the world faces right now? I agree with the hon. Gentleman

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I agree with the hon. Gentleman and and I agree that the world needs to to wake up as penholder. needs to to wake up as penholder. We have the means and the moral responsibility to act, ensure that

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we and the rest of the world do not turn our backs on Sudan. Once more. The honourable. Gentleman to give way.

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Gentleman to give way. I will be. Very grateful. To the hon. Gentleman, and I congratulate him for for being this congratulate him for for being this important debate this evening. I've been to Srebrenica, and in 2002 I was in Sudan, and as I travelled was in Sudan, and as I travelled with my research team to the northern Nubian Desert, our path was blocked by the presence of the was blocked by the presence of the Wagner Group, who were training RSF militia and extracting vast militia and extracting vast quantities of gold.

This is an internationalised civil war. Does the hon. Gentleman agree with me the hon. Gentleman agree with me that an internationalised civil war requires an internationalised solution, and Britain is moral band solution, and Britain is moral band to play a leading role in assembling a coalition of the willing?

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willing? I thank the hon. Member for his comments, and I agree with you with comments, and I agree with you with with with him. I call on the government to follow on from the London Sudan Conference held in April this year to hold a Lancaster House style peace conference for all the parties to the conflict, to hold it in a place of safety on neutral ground, where peace in the Sudan and the means to achieve it can be fully debated and a way forward found for peace, reconciliation and rebuilding.

Some may say such a journey is impossible, but if we do not try, we will not succeed. If a journey begins with a single step, then less. Let this be such a, such a step. We cannot. We must not allow the killing, torture and rape to

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continue. Thank you. Oh, I'll. Barton. I thank my hon. Friend for

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for bringing this really important topic. There is one additional thing that I would suggest he might feel he needs to suggest he might feel he needs to add, which is a sense of urgency to get this solution in place. Would he agree?

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he agree? I totally agree and I thank the

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I totally agree and I thank the hon. Member for that point. And with that, thank you, Madam Chief
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Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Minister. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker, and I am

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Madam Deputy Speaker, and I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Melksham and Devizes for tabling this debate at such a tabling this debate at such a critical moment for Sudan, which I know will be a matter of concern not only to this House, to his constituents, but to all of our constituents across the country. And I also want to thank him for the contributions this morning in the debate, and that I know from members who are here today who also spoke in the debate this morning, and to also acknowledge his work on the the International Development Select Committee and his previous work in aid prior to coming to this House.

And I also want to thank other hon. Members who have made contributions in the debate today. I know the hon. Member will have also followed the debate last week in the House, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend in Porthcawl, also spoke, and on behalf of whom I am also responding today, and and to recognise the seriousness of the situation that we are witnessing. The conflict has left more than 30 million people in need of urgent help in what is the world's worst humanitarian crisis and support.

Supporting Sudan remains a vital and top priority for this government. We've heard a number of contributions as well in relation to freedom of religion and belief, and perhaps I can just briefly say on that before I continue my remarks that the I will give very, very briefly, I.

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Thank the Minister for giving way. The United Kingdom has always stood as a defender of human rights. stood as a defender of human rights. And I say this with deep conviction how many burned churches and murdered worshippers will it take murdered worshippers will it take in Nigeria and Sudan? Before we call it what it is a campaign to exterminate Christians, British aid must never bankroll corruption or indifference. Will she urgently press to Sudan and Nigerian government to protect all citizens,

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citizens but particularly Christians, and ensure that our aid goes to their needs? Minister.

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Minister. I thank the hon. Friend. I thank the hon. Member for her, for her the hon. Member for her, for her contribution and perhaps I can just reassure her on this that the UK reassure her on this that the UK remains extremely concerned about the cushion of individuals on the the cushion of individuals on the basis of their religion or belief. And this was a point also made by And this was a point also made by the hon.

Member for Strangford as well during the debate, and we have well during the debate, and we have strongly condemned as well in relation to this the violence in El relation to this the violence in El Fasher and North Darfur, as well as attacks on places of worship and indeed in in other countries across across the world. And we regularly use our role as leader of the core group on Sudan at the Human Rights Council as well, to advocate for the protection of civilians in line with international law, including the right to freedom of religion and belief.

If I could just continue on this and in relation to some of the other points that were made recently, we have seen advances as have been referred to by the Rapid Support Forces or the RSF into El Fasher, accompanied by the shocking reports of mass murder and rape last week. As has been referenced, the Foreign Secretary condemned the horrific massacre at the Saudi maternity hospital and indeed also the murder of the very courageous five humanitarian workers and called on the RSF to urgently facilitate rapid, safe and unimpeded humanitarian access across El Fasher.

And I think this point has been extremely powerfully made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East who has raised this and the issues of. Supporting action in Sudan several times in recent weeks, and I thank her for her contributions as as the United Nations Security Council. Penholder. We called an urgent council meeting on the 30th of October to respond to the worsening crisis and penned a press statement condemning the assault by the RSF. And last week we mobilised £23 million in emergency aid for El Fasher and indeed, on the 1st of November, the Foreign Secretary announced a further £5 million to help get food, clean water and medical supplies to over 100,000 people in North Darfur.

Our Special representative to Sudan, Richard Crowder, remains in contact with the RSF and their political alliance, Tassie's, pressing for restraint and reminding them of their obligations under international law. And we are also talking to international partners and calling on those who have influence over the parties to use it to urge restraint and to bring them to the table. The hon. Member made a very important point when he said that this cannot go on, and we need to find a way for a ceasefire and to make sure that we have a political solution.

So our approach to Sudan is based on three pillars. The first is that push for a permanent ceasefire and supporting a civilian led transition. The second is securing unimpeded humanitarian access in order to deliver life saving aid. The third is to protect civilians and to ensure accountability. Madam Deputy Speaker, In April, the UK convened the London Sudan Conference, also referred to alongside co-hosts France, Germany, the EU and the African Union, bringing together a broad coalition of international partners to build consensus around protecting civilians, improving humanitarian access and ending the conflict.

We have sustained the momentum built by the conference and at the UN General Assembly in September, the Foreign Secretary hosted high level events alongside our conference co-hosts, refocusing global attention on the crisis and the urgent need for action that call for continuing to have that global attention was one, I believe, echoed by a number of members in their interventions today. The UK special representative for Sudan has maintained regular engagement with Sudan, with the Sudanese civil Society, including the anti-war coalition Sumud, and through the Sudan Stability and Growth Programme, which aims to support Sudan on the path of inclusive, resilient, peaceful political settlement.

UK support I will give way in a moment. UK support has helped establish Sudan's largest pro-democracy coalition, including

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work with 200 women to shape a national political dialogue. I am grateful to the Minister

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I am grateful to the Minister for giving way in what she has said, but could she say how the UK is approaching the UAE in particularly approaching the UAE in particularly the supply of arms and also the use of mercenaries which are being

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deployed into Sudan? Minister. I thank my hon. Friend for her

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I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and I think first, I perhaps should make also clear, as perhaps should make also clear, as was my colleague. The hon. Member, was my colleague. The hon. Member, my my hon. Friend, the Member for Penarth also recently has said that we take very seriously allegations we take very seriously allegations that UK made military equipment may have been transferred into have been transferred into transferred to Sudan in breach of the UK arms embargo.

The UK indeed the UK arms embargo. The UK indeed has one of the most robust and transparent export control regimes transparent export control regimes in the world. There is no evidence in the recent reporting of UK in the recent reporting of UK weapons or ammunition being used in Sudan, and there are no current Sudan, and there are no current export licences for the equipment reported. For the equipment reported on, and she may well want to continue to raise her concerns with my hon.

Friend. But if I could say as well that the UK continues to support, to emphasise that external support to warring parties only fuels the conflict, and we urge all actors to press for that vital political solution. That is why we welcome the Quad's efforts to seek to secure an immediate three month ceasefire and to end this terrible suffering, and conversations continue with members of the quad and also others across the international community. I'm conscious of time. I'll I will just continue and I may I may be able to in due course.

Turning to humanitarian aid, the UK remains one of the largest donors to Sudan. The Prime Minister has made clear that funding to Sudan will be protected for the next three years. At the London Sudan Conference in April, we also announced a £120 million in new funding to reach over 650,000 people with food, cash,

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water, sanitation and nutritional support. This year. Nought point.

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Nought point. If I could just continue to make continue with my remarks briefly. continue with my remarks briefly. In May, Baroness Chapman announced a further £36 million for Sudanese a further £36 million for Sudanese refugees in Chad to help ease the regional burden of displacement, regional burden of displacement, and UK aid has recently has already reached 2.5 million people since the conflict began. Last year alone, the conflict began. Last year alone, we treated over 98,000 children for malnutrition, gave 744,000 people malnutrition, gave 744,000 people access to clean water and supported 71,000 victims of international humanitarian law violations with humanitarian law violations with cash assistance.

I, I will very briefly give. I thank you.

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briefly give. I thank you. back. To the question. The question of a conference she was talking about. Is she was talking about. Is she absolutely certain that all of the actors in this place are part of that conference? Because there's that conference? Because there's been reference to certainly the United Arab Emirates, and maybe there are other actors in that region who didn't seem to be on the list of people she mentioned might

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have been here in April. Minister. I thank I thank the hon. Member

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I thank I thank the hon. Member for her question. And indeed, we continue to work with the members continue to work with the members of the quad and also others across the international community. And the international community. And that and in terms of our role as Penholder as well, we continue to Penholder as well, we continue to engage all across the international community, because what we need to see is that ceasefire and a political solution. If I could also just I just could continue on on just I just could continue on on this.

I'll try and come back to my hon. Friend, my right hon. Friend, hon. Friend, my right hon. Friend, in relation to in relation to

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support from the UK, I will. Order. Order! The House stands adjourned.

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Ho ho ho ho ho!
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None Portrait Oral questions: Treasury
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