Oral Answers to Questions
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
I realise that many colleagues on the Benches diagonally opposite are somewhat preoccupied with the contest to become the leader of the Scottish National party and Scotland’s First Minister. In my view, this is a real opportunity for a new First Minister to reset the relationship with the United Kingdom Government, to work constructively with us and to make life better for the people of Scotland. We need a First Minister who puts Scotland’s interests above the nationalists’ interests. My offer to all those running in the contest is this: the United Kingdom Government stand ready to work with you, and that will be the real win for improving the lives of people in Scotland.
My assessment is that retained EU law reform will have a positive impact on Scotland by boosting the competitiveness of the economy while respecting devolution and maintaining high standards. Reform will ensure that regulations meet the needs of the United Kingdom, and will provide the opportunity for us to become the best regulated economy in the world, encouraging prosperity, business innovation and—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I just say to the Secretary of State that Scottish questions are short enough without his taking up all the time?
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I thank the governor-general for that long-winded response.
According to a report by the Economics for the Environment Consultancy, lower standards just in chemical regulation, water pollution, air quality and the protection of habitats will cost the British Government £83 billion over the next three decades. Does the Secretary of State believe it is right for Scotland to face yet another billion-pound price tag for a Brexit that it did not vote for?
Mr Jack
I do not recognise that analysis. We are respecting and raising environmental standards. Where matters are devolved we respect that, and the Scottish Government are able to deal with those matters under retained EU law as they see fit. Where there is overlap, we have frameworks and we will work together.
Gavin Newlands
“What utter drivel” is, I think, the parliamentary terminology.
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents has warned not only that the Bill threatens economic harm, but that weakened safety standards on construction and other work sites risk the loss of life and limb. It states that that we might as well adopt the motto, “Saving time and costing lives”, for the Bill. How many Scottish workers’ lives does the Secretary of State believe are a worthwhile price to pay for the Brexit race to the bottom?
Mr Jack
When it comes to utter drivel, it should not be a competition, but the hon. Member has taken it to a new height. What utter drivel that was! Workers’ rights are entirely protected; in fact, they are being enhanced by this Government, and they are not dependent on EU membership.
Joanna Cherry
The negative impacts of Brexit are already visible, with food prices up 6% and a third of the companies that formerly exported to the EU giving up, owing to customs paperwork—and that includes companies in my constituency. Does the Secretary of State not recognise that it is Brexit that is causing more red tape for businesses, and that diverging from EU standards further under this much-criticised Bill will further exacerbate trade friction between the UK and the continent?
Mr Jack
No, because I believe that we have a comprehensive trade agreement with the EU, and we are working out and ironing out the problems. We have been very successful in doing that, particularly for the fishing industry. We also have before us huge opportunities: not just the trade deals with Australia, New Zealand and others, but the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership, which will cover almost half the world’s trade and will provide a huge opportunity for Scotland’s food and drink industry.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be ideal if the new First Minister put as much focus on the powers that the Scottish Government already have as on retained EU law? Was he as disappointed as I was to find that, once again, the Scottish Government were unable to take over the devolved powers on welfare that they were given in 2016, and that it now seems that those powers will not come into place until 2026—10 years after the Scotland Act 2016?
Mr Jack
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I know that he was in the Scotland Office when those powers were devolved in 2016. Some of them will not come into operation until 2026. That is because, while we want to work with the Scottish Government—we are working with them—and we hope we will deliver those programmes at the Scottish Government’s pace, the pace could be moved up if they spent more time focusing on the day job and less time on their obsession with separation.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs alone has identified more than 1,700 pieces of retained EU law, with the majority in devolved areas such as agriculture, forestry and fishing. What happens if the Scottish Government want to maintain some of the EU standards that the Secretary of State’s party wants to ditch? Does he think it would be right for UK Ministers to change regulations in devolved matters without consent? How does that respect devolution?
Mr Jack
We are working constructively and collaboratively with the Scottish Government on those retained EU laws. Where we have agreement on a cross-UK piece of policy, we will legislate on behalf of the devolved Administrations. Where it is in a devolved area, we will respect that and allow the Scottish Government to do as they see fit. If they want to remain in line with EU regulations, they can. There is a retained EU law—REUL—working group for the Bill and their officials have been on that since March 2022. We are making good and steady progress.
Dr Whitford
Because of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2022, goods made in the rest of the UK cannot be kept out of Scotland, even if they do not meet future Scottish standards on quality, safety or environmental impact. Does the Secretary of State not recognise that the combined effect of both pieces of legislation will drastically increase the degree of direct rule by Westminster and drive a coach and horses through devolution?
Mr Jack
That is not true. We are respecting the devolved settlement. If we look at precision breeding and gene editing, for instance, the Scottish farming industry, the National Farmers Union of Scotland and all the other farming unions in the UK want to be part of the Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill, but we have respected the Scottish Government saying that they do not want to be part of it. Their dogma desires them to carry on with the EU rules and we respect that. As regards the UK internal market, it is absolutely right that trade can continue seamlessly across the United Kingdom, because 60% of Scotland’s trade is with the rest of the United Kingdom.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The UK is one of the most successful political and economic unions in the world. Our collective strength means that we are better able to tackle big problems such as the cost of living, lead the international response against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, grow our economy and deliver freeports in Scotland.
Mr Dhesi
Last month, the then Tory party chairman was sacked when it was revealed that he had allegedly attempted to hide his multi-million pound tax settlement with His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs after failing to properly declare income. That is not to mention partygate and various other scandals. Does the Secretary of State think that a Tory Government in Westminster who are mired in sleaze will strengthen or weaken our Union of the United Kingdom?
Mr Jack
The Prime Minister put integrity at every level in this Government when he came in, and he acted decisively in appointing an independent ethics adviser. When he received the report on the incident the hon. Gentleman refers to, he acted immediately.
Cat Smith
In Scotland and across the UK, Parliament is being dragged down by Tory and SNP sleaze and impropriety. In Holyrood, Committees have been ignored, processes have been run over roughshod, and the responsibility to be truly accountable to both Parliaments, the press and the public has been ignored by Ministers of both Governments. Does the Secretary of State not agree that we need a reformed and renewed constitution across the country that is fit for a democratised United Kingdom?
Mr Jack
I did not catch all of that, but I refer the hon. Lady to the answer I gave earlier. There is a ministerial code that sets standards of behaviour for Ministers, and Ministers are personally responsible for how they conduct themselves. Ultimately, the Prime Minister is the judge and I think he is a man of integrity. I trust him to make the right decisions.
Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) (Con)
Controversial, expensive and barely afloat, the SNP Government in Scotland have wasted £500 million of taxpayers’ money on two ferries that do not work. Does my right hon. Friend agree there should be an urgent inquiry so that Scottish voters can have faith in the way that Holyrood uses their money?
Mr Jack
As I said, the Prime Minister appointed an ethics adviser, and he has acted decisively on everything brought forward to him to date. I have full confidence in the Prime Minister, in his integrity and in the decisions he will make.
Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)
Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The Government’s commitment to Scotland is best demonstrated by what we are doing on the ground. We are investing more than £2 billion to level up across Scotland and working with the Scottish Government to deliver growth deals and freeports in Scotland.
Mark Menzies
Scotland is a world leader in food and drink production, especially in higher-end products such as Scotch whisky and seafood—something I have been proud to promote in my role as one of the Prime Minister’s trade envoys. As the UK Government continue to strike new trade agreements, what benefits will the removal of trade barriers have for Scotland?
Mr Jack
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that important matter and for his efforts in this area. The latest statistics on exports of Scotch whisky and salmon underline how much demand there is for these premium products. The UK Government have an ambitious programme of free trade negotiations that will include India and the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. We will continue to build relationships with trading partners around the world.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
The Secretary of State has Bladnoch distillery in his constituency, and I have Glenmorangie, Clynelish and Old Pulteney in mine. Is it not crazy that the proposed ban on advertising is going to damage distilleries in our constituencies and, more importantly, could impair employment in rural parts of Scotland? These are vital local jobs.
Mr Jack
Yes, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. This is just another example of how anti-business this Scottish Government are—the SNP and its coalition partners, the Greens. The deposit return scheme that is coming down the tracks is just another example of how anti-business they are.
Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
Like many countries around the world, the UK has been buffeted by global economic headwinds driving high inflation and slowing growth, but we have taken decisive action to protect households and businesses. The Government know there is more to do, which is why the Prime Minister has pledged to halve inflation this year, deliver sustainable growth and start reducing debt.
Mary Glindon
We know that a stronger economy begins in the heart of our communities, but local authorities across Scotland have been forced to cut back on essential services and consider up to 7,000 job losses or hikes in council tax because of the impossible situation in which the Scottish Government have put them. Does the Secretary of State think that Scottish people should have to pay more for poor-quality services?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady makes a good point. The Scottish Government have received a block grant settlement this year of £41.6 billion—the highest in real terms since devolution began. Their behaviour towards local authorities completely contrasts with that of the UK Government. We are working with Scottish councils, delivering funding directly to them to help them with the projects that matter the most to their people. I would say that that is real devolution, not SNP centralisation.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
The Scottish Government’s delayed and botched deposit return scheme has turned into total chaos: businesses want to redesign it to make it work; the public do not know about it; and MSPs want it delayed again. The scheme has been a shambles from day one, with a former SNP Minister describing it as “the Titanic heading for an iceberg”. Does the Minister agree that this process needs urgent reform, and will he encourage his Cabinet colleagues to make sure that any UK-wide scheme learns from the pitfalls of the Scottish Government process?
Mr Jack
Yes. I have had legitimate concerns raised with me by businesses across Scotland and by stakeholder groups and I have urged the Scottish Government to pause the scheme. There is no doubt in my mind that the scheme is not just bad for businesses, but bad for stakeholders and consumers. Anecdotally, Aldi will sell 12 bottles of Scottish water for £1.59. Under this scheme, that will become £3.99. If that is not inflationary, if that is not adding to people’s cost of living, I do not know what is. Furthermore, we have not been asked for an exemption for this under the rules of the UK Internal Market Act 2020 by the Scottish Government—no request for an exemption has come. The exemption bar is very high indeed, otherwise what is the point of the UKIM?
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
Points of Order
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
The Secretary of State is with us, so perhaps he would like to inform the House.
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
We laid the order at 12.34 pm, with the statement of reasons. The House authorities have to clear it before they publish it, and they will not do that until 5 pm. However, Mr Speaker has given me dispensation to publish the statement of reasons on the gov.uk website. We are doing that now. It is also being emailed to the hon. Members for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) and for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn).
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. We have just questioned the Secretary of State for more than an hour and he repeatedly mentioned the statement of reasons, which we have not yet seen. I am now told that I am going receive the statement of reasons. I think it would be wise for the House to be suspended so that we can all consider those reasons in full prior to the debate, because they will be of intrinsic value to us all.
Scotland Act 1998: Section 35 Power
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 3 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
Today I will make an order under section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 preventing the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill from proceeding to Royal Assent. This order will mean that the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament will not submit the Bill for Royal Assent. This Government believe, however, that trans- gender people deserve our respect, our support and our understanding.
My decision is centred on the consequences of the legislation for the operation of reserved matters, including equality legislation across Scotland, England and Wales. The Scottish Government’s Bill would introduce a new process of applying for legal gender recognition in Scotland. The changes include reducing the minimum age at which a person can apply for a gender recognition certificate from 18 to 16, and removing the need for a medical diagnosis and evidence of having lived for two years in their acquired gender. The Bill would amend the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which legislated for a single gender recognition system across the United Kingdom, and which received a legislative consent motion from the Scottish Parliament.
The approach taken in the Scottish Government’s Bill was the subject of intense debate in the Scottish Parliament. A number of significant amendments were tabled right up until the end of the Bill’s passage, and the Minister for Women and Equalities, my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi Badenoch), corresponded with and met the Cabinet Secretary, Shona Robison, to discuss the UK Government’s concerns before the Bill had reached its final stage.
I have not taken this decision lightly. The Government have looked closely at the potential impact of the Bill, and I have considered all relevant policy and operational implications, together with the Minister for Women and Equalities. It is our assessment that the Bill would have a serious adverse impact on, among other things, the operation of the Equality Act 2010. Those adverse effects include impacts on the operation of single-sex clubs, associations and schools, and on protections such as equal pay. The Government share the concerns of many members of the public and civic society groups about the potential impact of the Bill on women and girls.
The Bill also risks creating significant complications through the existence of two different gender recognition regimes in the UK, and allowing more fraudulent or bad- faith applications. The Government are today publishing a full statement of reasons alongside the order, which will set out in full the adverse effects that they are concerned about.
Let me now address the claims put forward by those who would seek to politicise this decision and claim that it is some kind of constitutional outrage—[Interruption.] And you can hear them, Mr Speaker; you can hear them. The section 35 power was included in the Scotland Act, which established the Scottish Parliament. This is the first time the power has been exercised, and I acknowledge that it is a significant decision, but the powers in section 35 are not new, and the Government have not created them; they have existed for as long as devolution itself.
We should be clear about the fact that the section 35 power was included in the Act by the architect of that devolution for a reason. Donald Dewar himself noted that the power struck an important balance. It provides a sensible measure to ensure that devolved legislation does not have adverse impacts on reserved matters, including equalities legislation such as the Equality Act 2010. This is not about preventing the Scottish Parliament from legislating in devolved matters, but about ensuring that we do not have legal frameworks in one part of the United Kingdom which have adverse effects on reserved matters.
We should also be clear about the fact that this is absolutely not about the United Kingdom Government’s being able to veto Scottish Parliament legislation whenever they choose, as some have implied. The power can be exercised only on specific grounds, and the fact that this is the first time it has been necessary to exercise it in almost 25 years of devolution emphasises that it is not a power to be used lightly.
I have concluded that the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill would have serious effects on the operation of the Equality Act, and, as I set out in my correspondence with the First Minister yesterday, I would prefer not to be in this situation. We in the United Kingdom Government do all that we can to respect the devolution settlement and to resolve disputes. It is open to the Scottish Government to bring back an amended Bill for reconsideration in the Scottish Parliament. I have made clear to the Scottish Government my hope that—should they choose to do so—we can work together to find a constructive way forward that respects both devolution and the operation of the United Kingdom Parliament’s legislation. I commend this statement to the House.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement.
This is an incredibly serious moment: it is the first time section 35 has been invoked. Donald Dewar, the father of devolution—who has already been mentioned—designed this section to protect devolution. It was passed by all parties in the House and has not been objected to since then. It was intended to be not a blocking but an enabling mechanism, allowing the Scottish Parliament to pass legislation in devolved competences without changing reserved functions. At the time, colleagues of the then Secretary of State expressed concern that it could be used as a “veto”, so a memorandum of understanding was agreed. It stated:
“Although the UK Government is prepared to use these powers if necessary, it sees them very much as a matter of last resort. The UK Government and the administration concerned will therefore aim to resolve any difficulties through discussion so as to avoid any action or omission by the devolved administration having an adverse impact on non-devolved matters.”
May I ask the Secretary of State whether this is a last resort? Did he have extensive discussions with the Scottish Government before taking this action? How many times has he met the Scottish Government before the Bill was passed, during its debate in Holyrood, and since its passage? It appears to me that this has become a last resort only in terms of the legal timing because both Governments cannot and will not work with each other.
The Secretary of State says that section 35 is being used—among other reasons—in relation to the Equality Act. Both the Scotland Act and the Equality Act are landmark pieces of Labour legislation, establishing devolution and enshrining rights to be free of discrimination in law. No one needs to question this party’s commitment to equality: we passed the initial Gender Recognition Act 2004, we brought in the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, and we brought the world-leading Equality Act into law. Clearly, however, there is a need for laws passed by Holyrood and those passed by Westminster to interact, and in this case the trans community need that cross-border interaction to work.
The fact that, after 25 years of devolution, section 35 has never been exercised is largely due to the way in which devolution was set up and intended to operate, with Governments having their own agendas but also a common purpose in working together to serve the Scottish people. Now Scotland is saddled with an Administration in Edinburgh who are hellbent on breaking devolution, and a Conservative Administration here in London who are intent on ignoring it. Indeed, the Secretary of State seems to spend more time with Government lawyers trying to stop things happening than making them work, while the Scottish Government spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on lawyers challenging laws that they know are unchallengeable in order to manufacture political grievance.
In this case, it is the public who are let down. Trans people, who suffer intense discrimination, will now not see this legislation take effect any time soon—if at all—and women’s rights groups are likely not to see their concerns addressed or their fears alleviated, because the simple truth is that this has turned into a constitutional bunfight.
I also suggest that the SNP would be rightly screaming, as they are doing today and have done in the past, if a piece of legislation passed in this place had implications for devolved competences. They would challenge that, as is their right. If we are to accept the argument from the Scottish Government that there is no effect on the Equality Act, the courts will surely strike out this section 35 action, as we believe that the Scottish Government will take it to court.
Scottish Labour put the primacy of the Equality Act on the face of the Bill. May I ask the Secretary of State whether the statutory instrument that he mentioned in his statement will give the details of where he thinks it is incompatible? He said last night that there was a version of the Bill that the UK Government could support; what does that look like? However, he also said in his statement that there were complications with two different gender recognition regimes. Is he saying that the Scottish Parliament should not have the competence? As the Bill was being debated in Holyrood, was it not obvious to him and his colleagues that it could contravene reserved law? What did he do about it then?
During the Bill’s passage, Scottish Labour made clear that if it was to work, clear guidance was required. The SNP Scottish Government said that it was for the Equality and Human Rights Commission, not them as the Government, to provide such guidance. Why does the Secretary of State not instruct the EHRC to provide that guidance, look at the cross-border issues that he has mentioned, and provide recommendations in respect of the interaction with the Equality Act? Both Governments should commit themselves to accepting those conclusions—or is the Secretary of State saying that the ball is in the Scottish Government’s court to bring back amended legislation, and that he is now backing out of the process?
We support the principle of updating the Gender Recognition Act, which was world-leading when the Labour Government introduced it in 2004 but now, two decades on, requires modernisation to humanise it and remove the indignities involved in this dreadful process. We have ended up in a legal and constitutional impasse. My final question to the Secretary of State is this: what is he going to do to resolve it?
Mr Jack
I shall answer the hon. Gentleman’s questions, hopefully in the right order. This is not a last resort. To understand the Scotland Act, section 33 relates to where UK legislation is directly changed, and section 35 to where it is adversely affected. We have 28 days to make a decision in either case before the legislation goes for Royal Assent. In this case, the legal test that has been given to us and approved by our officials is under section 35, which relates to an adverse effect on two parts of UK/GB legislation. That is where we are at. We have 28 days to make that decision and we have to make a decision in that timeframe. In this case, very senior legal opinion advises us that section 35 is appropriate. This will be seen in my statement of reasons, which we have laid with the order.
On the hon. Gentleman’s second point, officials have been meeting officials in the Scottish Government since the Bill was introduced. After the second stage, the Minister for Gender and Equalities wrote to the Bill Minister expressing her concerns and asking for a meeting. That meeting took place, and her concerns were again expressed at that meeting. Regarding the EHRC, it has said that it is willing to work with and support the Scottish Government if it can. However, it has made it clear that its ongoing concerns are still on record. That is where that rests. I think that addresses all the points that the hon. Gentleman raised.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
The Secretary of State outlined in his statement how the UK Government had sought to engage constructively with the Scottish Government during the passage of the Bill prior to its being voted on in the Scottish Parliament, yet Nicola Sturgeon has tried to turn this into a political battle between the Scottish and UK Governments when, as I understand it, all that the Scottish Secretary and this Government are trying to do is protect women’s rights. [Interruption.] Despite the howls from the SNP, will the Scottish Secretary confirm that all the SNP has to do is bring forward a Bill in the Scottish Parliament that protects the rights of women and girls across the United Kingdom?
Mr Jack
Yes, and fortunately that addresses one of the points that the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland raised. I can address it here. I have written to the First Minister and suggested that we meet to resolve these issues. It is the case that the Scottish Government’s Bill has adverse effects on those two pieces of legislation. We can see that in the statement of reasons that has been produced by our legal advisers. What is missing are sufficient protections and safeguards for women and children that are reflected in existing Westminster legislation, and that is why I have had to lay this order.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
The vetoing of this legislation is an unprecedented attack on the Scottish Parliament, which passed the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill by 86 votes to 39, including MSPs from every party. Gender recognition is a devolved policy area and this does not change the Equality Act 2010 or give any additional rights to those with a certificate. It shortens and simplifies the process and, particularly, ends the requirement for a psychological diagnosis of gender dysphoria. This is in keeping with the guidance from the World Health Organisation and from the United Nations, which recommends change to a legal statutory process based on self-identification. This change has already been made by many countries over the last decade, including neighbours such as Ireland, Belgium and Denmark. This Government are threatening to end UK acceptance of international certificates. I find this bizarre, considering that the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), suggested a similar proposal in 2017.
Will the Secretary of State explain exactly which parts of the Equality Act are changed by the Bill? Why did he not raise specific concerns during the two consultations carried out by the Scottish Parliament or in response to the Cabinet Secretary’s letter in October, rather than in a response that came three days before the final debate on the Bill? What modifications to the Bill is he suggesting that would not include a return to the outmoded medicalised process? Why is he using one of the most marginalised groups in society to pick a fight with the Scottish Parliament? Is he seriously, after 300 years of different marriage ages and voting ages, suggesting that there can no longer be legal or age differences north and south of the border? And does he recognise that vetoing the Bill simply highlights the hollow reality of devolution?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady will not be surprised to hear that I do not recognise much of what she says as being correct. I would point her to the statement of reasons, which will be laid alongside this order today. Our legal advice is clear: the Equality Act 2010 is reserved and there are adverse effects, some of which I listed in my statement only moments ago, including on associations, women’s safe spaces and single-sex schools. It was very clear what I said, and the hon. Lady will see what legal counsel have determined when she sees the statement of reasons.
Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con)
A Conservative Government are standing up for women’s sex-based rights in Scotland. I congratulate the Government on this decision, which we know will protect women’s sex-based specialist services in areas such as rape crisis. Does the Secretary of State agree, given the verdict of the UN special rapporteur and the verdict of Dr Hilary Cass, which is not yet complete, that it is essential for every corner of the United Kingdom to reach an agreed position on the age limit for a gender recognition certificate?
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
This is the single biggest attack on Scottish devolution and Scottish democracy since the establishment of the Scottish Parliament in 1999. A move to strike down a piece of legislation that is supported by every single party in the Parliament is as provocative as it is anti-democratic. When the Scotland Act went through Parliament back in 1997 and ’98, the Conservatives called section 35 the “colonial general rule”. Is the Secretary of State now the real-life colonial general imposing his view on a reluctant Scottish Parliament in the name of his and his party’s culture wars?
Mr Jack
I come back to my original point. This is a decision that I did not take lightly. It was taken after much consideration of the legal advice that we received and it is based on a section 35 order, which is in the 1998 Scotland Act—an Act brought forward by the Labour party, led through Parliament by Donald Dewar and voted for by the Scottish National party.
Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)
Is not the central point here that devolution is not the same as independence? [Interruption.] To the disappointment of some, I accept, but in every devolution settlement, including ours, every devolved legislature has to legislate with consideration for the other parts of the United Kingdom. If that does not happen, section 35 is the appropriate instrument for the UK Government to consider the use of. Is not the visceral reaction to the Government’s temerity in even considering the use of section 35, when there are clear conflicts between the devolved approach and the UK approach, a demonstration that there is no acceptance of the devolution settlement on the part of the SNP at all?
Mr Jack
My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. Devolution is about granting powers, not giving away or ceding them. That is what the devolution Act does. Through that Act, Westminster gave powers to the Scottish Parliament but the Act was very clear, and it kept section 33 and section 35 for when there were conflicts. A conflict has arisen here in terms of adverse effects on UK-wide legislation in the two Acts that will be referred to in the statement of reasons.
Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State claims there is a version of the Bill that the UK Government will accept. Indeed, it has been noted by the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee that the Bill is broadly in line with the recommendations made by the Committee following its inquiry into the Gender Recognition Act. Will the Secretary of State explain why he did not work with counterparts in Holyrood to avoid this unnecessary and unprecedented constitutional collision? Will he make a statement in this House on how the Government will reform the GRA across the UK if they are seeking to block progressive reform in Scotland?
Mr Jack
I am carrying out my constitutional role as Secretary of State for Scotland, and this section 35 order is where the legal advice has taken me. The Minister for Women and Equalities, my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi Badenoch), who is sitting next to me on the Front Bench, is dealing with the policy, and the hon. Lady should raise the point with her.
Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)
There are many in this House who agree with the content of the Scottish Government’s Bill, and there are many in this House, including me, who object to its content, but that is not the point at issue. We live in a unitary state, so having different gender recognition certification processes in different parts of the United Kingdom is likely to produce conflict and confusion. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it was never part of the devolution settlement that any one part of devolved government in the United Kingdom could effectively make a change, or require a change, for citizens across the whole of our unitary nation?
Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab)
I welcome the Government’s invoking of section 35, as the Bill clearly conflicts with the Equality Act and would have repercussions for women across the UK. Does the Secretary of State recognise the strength of feeling among women, women’s rights groups and activists in Scotland that this Bill seeks to allow anyone at all to legally self-identify as either sex and, therefore, enter all spaces, including those necessarily segregated by sex, such as domestic violence settings, changing rooms and prisons? Given the previous urgent statement, does he not understand how vital this is at the moment?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady deserves a lot of respect for her courage in standing up on this issue. When she reads the statement of reasons later today, she will be proved right in what she says.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
Having served as a Minister in the Scotland Office alongside my right hon. Friend for a couple of years, I know how compassionately and diligently he has looked into these matters. This is a complex issue with lots of consequences, but do we not owe it to everyone to look at these matters dispassionately, to work through the points of conflict and to turn down the dial on some of the heat that has been generated?
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend is absolutely right that tone is important in these matters, and I have not taken this decision lightly. I took it after due consideration of the legal advice. Yes, let us take the heat out of these matters by dealing with the legal issues, and then let us see if we can find a resolution.
Ms Anum Qaisar (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
We have had six years of wide consultation, and two thirds of MSPs supported the legislation. That includes MSPs from every single political party in the Scottish Parliament—the SNP, the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats—so the Tory Government’s actions are shameful and, actually, quite scary. Does the Secretary of State share my concern that this decision sets a dangerous precedent whereby Westminster dictates and Holyrood must simply shut up and do as it is told?
Mr Jack
No, obviously I do not. In 24 years, the Scottish Parliament has passed 347 Acts and the United Kingdom Government have never used a section 35 order. The legal advice deems that we should use a section 35 order this time, which is what we have done because there are adverse effects on UK-wide legislation.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
As the Opposition spokesman during the passage of the devolution Bills in 1998, I took part in the debate in which the devolution of equality rights was explicitly debated. I pointed out that the
“imposition of anti-discrimination laws has to be handled with great care, because it is all too easy to substitute one type of intolerance of minorities for another”.—[Official Report, 31 March 1998; Vol. 309, c. 1121.]
That is exactly what the SNP’s Bill does by denying the rights of women and girls. The important point is that the Labour Minister, Henry McLeish, one of the architects of devolution, responded by saying that human rights might be devolved, but equal opportunities should not be devolved, and that the Scottish Parliament should not
“be able to impose new duties or additional regulation in equal opportunities matters.”—[Official Report, 31 March 1998; Vol. 309, c. 1127.]
It was expressly debated in the House of Commons, it was voted on in the House of Commons and the SNP lost their amendment on this topic. Is it not time the SNP respected the devolution settlement? Will my right hon. Friend write to the official Opposition to ask them exactly what their response to his statement means? Why have the architects of devolution been replaced by weasels?
Mr Jack
We are fortunate to have among us a colleague of great political sagacity who was there when the legislation was debated. He is right that that democratic Bill went through Parliament with the support of all parties. Section 35, the instrument we are using today, is part of that Bill brought forward by the Labour party and supported by the Scottish National party back in 1998.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
Whatever our views about the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, Nicola Sturgeon’s obsession with independence has clouded her judgment and she is showing disregard for the rest of the United Kingdom and its laws. Her own party voted in favour of including section 35 in the Scotland Act. The rights of women and other vulnerable groups should not be pawns in her constitutional game.
Does the Secretary of State agree that invoking section 35 of the Scotland Act is deeply unfortunate but is, however, necessary because the GRR Bill does not take due consideration of UK-wide laws, and that it is Nicola Sturgeon who is failing to respect devolution and the UK-wide Equality Act with her dangerous actions?
Mr Jack
I absolutely agree. I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. As will be in the statement of reasons, we do not believe there are sufficient protections and safeguards for women and children in the GRR Bill.
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
I am a committed Unionist, like every Conservative Member, and I respect the devolution settlement, but the principle of one legislature intervening on another could set a significant and serious precedent. Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that he is using a section 35 order because of specific legal concerns about the impact of this legislation on all parts of the United Kingdom, including Scotland, rather than to seek to undermine devolution?
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
When we hear talk of agreed positions across the UK, the Tory right wingers mean, “Scotland, do as you’re told.” Labour MPs who are being cheered by those guys over there ought to have a look at themselves.
We have had six years of consultation and discussion about the GRR Bill. When did the Secretary of State and this Government suddenly discover that the Bill somehow threatens equal pay? What part of equal pay does he think is under threat?
Mr Jack
The Minister for Women and Equalities raised that subject with the Bill Minister, and it will be explained in our statement of reasons. The adverse effects are numerous and, if the hon. Gentleman reads the statement, he will see those points.
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
I believe the liberties and responsibilities of all citizens across the four nations of the UK are equal, which is why, among other things, I keenly supported the extension of same-sex marriage to Northern Ireland. I share the concerns about the rights of biological women to single- sex spaces, but I am most concerned about the capacity of children—minors—to determine their own gender and embark on potentially life-changing physical transformations. This dispute has been confected by the SNP in pursuit of its separatist agenda. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is shameful that the SNP has weaponised vulnerable children in pursuit of that agenda and would impose that agenda on the majority of children across the whole UK?
Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)
In my role on the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, I have, with others, been around the UK looking into scrutiny and the operation of devolution, of which I am a strong supporter. The state of relationships between the Tories and the SNP is deleterious and it is damaging all our rights. The SNP went to court to argue that sex was a legal construct, not a biological one. Therefore, the SNP has landed us in this position and it is trading on people’s rights—it is outrageous. The SNP is disregarding sex-based rights, which is exactly—[Interruption.] It is not acceptable for people who are standing up to talk about women’s sex-based rights to be constantly badgered—[Interruption.] Equally, I do not accept barracking from the men in the corner on the Conservative Benches. What we need to know now—it would be helpful to have the reasons before going forward—is what exactly the UK Government, who have not discussed this in advance of this coming here before us and have behaved outrageously, are expecting the SNP Scottish Government to do to help the rights of transgender people and women.
Mr Jack
I will not go into the details of Lady Haldane’s judgment in December, but the hon. Lady is right to say that that has created part of the conflict. Again, that will be laid out in the statement of reasons. We would like the Scottish Government to address the concerns we have as to sufficient protections and safeguards for women and children across UK-wide legislation and for that to be reflected in the Bill.
Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)
I welcome the order the Secretary of State made today. I am sure that the legislation passed by Holyrood was well intentioned, but in their unwillingness—I do not know whether this was stubbornness or naivety—to accept that there will be a tiny minority of bad actors, passing that Bill without the amendments proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) and his colleagues means that the Scottish Government are putting the sex-based rights of women and girls across the UK at risk. Is that not the point: this is affecting not just Scotland, but women and girls across the UK?
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
The real truth of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 discussion is that almost five years ago this Government opened up a consultation on GRA reform and did sweet nothing on it. They opened up that Pandora’s box of fear, hate and misinformation, and then when one part of our country takes action—we all should have taken action—they want to use it for a constructed constitutional crisis. Is it not time that this Government brought forward proper GRA reform on basis laid out in the Scotland legislation and put to bed, once and for all, the lie that this is about equalities?
Mr Jack
I am here to answer on the constitutional decision I have taken. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman goes to oral questions and asks those questions of the Minister for Women and Equalities.
Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)
In response to some comments from those on the SNP Benches, let me say that I am happy to look at myself, stand up here and speak about protections for 16 and 17-year-olds, who would be able to self-ID as a legal opposite sex, travel to this country and then become part of our society. There is a clear read-across to the Equality Act in our country. Having served in the Home Office and seen the desperate need for women and girls to be protected from grooming gangs, predators and sex offenders, I know that having protections for them to access those single-sex based services, which we thankfully have—[Interruption.]
Rachel Maclean
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Does the Secretary of State therefore agree that this is absolutely the right thing to do? I support his action and women and girls across the country, in the other three nations, are also going to thank him for it.
Mr Jack
I thank my hon. Friend for that. This is absolutely about safeguards and protecting safe spaces for women and children. She is absolutely right about that, and she also makes the point about the risk of lowering the bar for bad faith actors.
Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
Enacting section 35 is disgraceful and unprecedented, and doing so brings the risk of this political tactic being used again. Does the Secretary of State envision section 35 being used against any other Bills progressing through Holyrood? If not, why is it being used only against this Bill?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady is right to say that this is unprecedented and there is a very high bar here; this was not a decision I reached easily or took lightly. However, the legal advice was very strong and it was for section 35 to be used, and I have used it. As I said earlier, 347 Acts have gone through the Scottish Parliament in the past nearly 24 years. The system works and the Scotland Act 1998 works. Whether the SNP likes it or not—let us remember that the SNP did vote for it in 1998—it does provide for a section 35 order, and it is for this type of event.
Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
There will be those in this House who agree and those who disagree with the substance of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. However, the SNP surely knew, as it rushed that legislation through Holyrood, that it would bring it into direct conflict with UK Parliament legislation and with the devolution agreement. Indeed, some may speculate that that was the SNP’s intention. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the SNP should respect the devolution agreement that it voted for and not use women, girls or transgender individuals as pawns in its separatist agenda?
Mr Jack
Yes. This is entirely a legal debate we are having. It is about the Scotland Act 1998, and we should not be bringing into it or politicising the transgender community. I was disappointed by the First Minister’s remarks yesterday. We respect those in that community and we value them. This decision is entirely about the legal advice I have received.
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
We often hear about respecting the Scottish Parliament, but does this not absolutely demonstrate that power devolved is power retained? We accept that the Secretary of State has the powers enshrined in the Scotland Act under section 35, but what he has just done is ignored the fact that parties that voted for this Bill in the Scottish Parliament had a manifesto commitment. The Bill has the majority support of the Scottish Parliament and this absolutely demonstrates to everybody in Scotland that if we want to protect our Parliament, to protect the rights of the Scottish Parliament to legislate on devolved matters, we have to take the threat of action away from the Secretary of State. The only way that we can protect our Parliament is by Scotland becoming independent.
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con)
This latest debacle from the SNP just proves to me that it is not fit to govern in Scotland—it is absolutely pathetic. Does the Secretary of State agree that this so-called gender reform Bill from the SNP is just a pathetic, snidey, cynical attempt to use young people on its pathetic pathway to independence?
Mr Jack
What I am doing here is addressing the legal issues as advised by legal counsel. The issue here is adverse effects on UK-wide legislation—the Equality Act 2010 and the Gender Recognition Act 2004. That is what I am entirely focused on.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
I listened very carefully to what the Secretary of State said, but I did not hear a clear explanation as to why the Government believe that the Scottish gender recognition legislation conflicts with the UK Equality Act, because all it does is simplify and de-medicalise the process of transition; it does not change the status of somebody who has transitioned. That used to be Conservative party policy. It is also the policy of many other civilised countries—a growing number of countries. It is not good enough for him to say that he will publish something later today. He speaks for the Government, so he needs to be able to explain the rationale for this drastic move here to the House now. The Government also need to explain what they will do with all those foreign nationals who come from countries that already have some form of self-identification. Are the UK Government seriously going to take away their rights retrospectively?
Mr Jack
No, we are not. The Minister for Women and Equalities has provided a written ministerial statement on that. There are changes, which include 16 to 18-year-olds self-identifying without any medical diagnosis. But most importantly, in the legal advice that I have—this will be in the statement of reasons, but it is very detailed, so I do not want to bore everyone to death with it now—there is an adverse effect on two pieces of UK-wide legislation, and that is the reason why section 35 is deemed appropriate.
Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for standing firm on the facts against the noise. Does he agree that, rather than manufacturing constitutional battles, the SNP would do better focusing its energies on fixing the failures across Scotland, not least in health and education?
Mr Jack
Again, I do not want to bore everyone with a long list, but we could add ferries and many other things to that list.
Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
I notice that the Secretary of State fails to mention that this is the most consulted upon piece of legislation that has ever gone through the Scottish Parliament, so this idea that it has been rushed through is nothing more than a lie. As I have said, this is already an attack on devolution. It is an attack using and weaponising the most vulnerable group in our society. On that note, can the Secretary of State say, in his own words, what he thinks the point of the Scottish Parliament is?
Mr Jack
The point of the Scottish Parliament is to serve the people of Scotland in the areas that are devolved to it, but, to be clear, within the terms of the Scotland Act. It is not an attack on devolution to use a section 35 order, where that is deemed appropriate by legal counsel, when SNP Members themselves voted for that very Act with that order in it.
Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)
I warmly welcome the statement made by the Secretary of State. I also wish to place on the record my support for the heroines, such as J. K. Rowling and others, who stand up despite the continued aggression and violent abuse they receive from certain people in this place and across the Scottish Parliament. Does the Secretary of State agree that this is simply about protecting the right of young girls and women to have safety in single-sex spaces, and that the politicisation of that is an absolute abomination?
Mr Jack
Well, it is. It is also about protecting the devolution settlement and two UK-wide Acts.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
I have been contacted by Mackenzie, an inspirational woman I met recently in my constituency. She says:
“I did not choose to be trans. I did not choose to have my rights taken away, and I certainly did not choose to have my life up for debate from people who don’t even know or empathise with my community.”
Can the Secretary of State tell me why, in the absence of the UK doing anything whatsoever about improving trans rights, he is standing in the way of the Scottish Government making progress?
Mr Jack
First of all, of course we respect and support the trans community. If the hon. Lady wants to raise specific issues, the Minister for Women and Equalities is very happy to have a meeting with her.
Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if this House passed legislation that impinged on what should be a devolved competence, there would be howls of protest from the SNP Benches. [Interruption.] The fact that they are shouting down women in this House over UK-based equality legislation shows that this is not about equality at all; it is all about bashing the UK, and, for them, single sex-based rights is just collateral damage.
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend makes a very fair point. For me, this is not about anything other than following the legal advice on the adverse effects on UK-wide equality legislation, which of course involves safe single-sex spaces.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
Clearly, as we have heard, there is disagreement about the process contained within the legislation that the Scottish Parliament has passed. Will the Secretary of State clarify something? Whether or not one agrees with that, the net result is that someone would be issued with a gender recognition certificate. In evoking section 35, the Secretary of State argues that this would have serious adverse impacts on the operation of the Equality Act. Can he explain why the same certificate issued under the Equality Act 2004 does not have those adverse impacts?
Mr Jack
What we are trying to do is avoid having two conflicting regimes either side of the border.
Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)
I stand in full support of the Secretary of State’s decision this morning. Does he agree that the SNP is using this subject to deliberately cause division to further its single-issue campaign of creating an independent Scotland, regardless of the consequences for children and women across this nation?
Mr Jack
That is the conclusion that some people might have reached when listening to the question of the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford).
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Conservative Members impinged on devolved competencies in legislation last night when they voted for the anti-strike Bill. Can the Secretary of State tell us this: since the Scottish Parliament passed the gender recognition reform Bill and his decision today, what correspondence has he had with the Scottish Government to try to resolve the issue, or is it him who is a bad faith actor?
Mr Jack
As I think I have said, the Minister for Women and Equalities and civil service officials had a number of engagements. My involvement comes after the event, because it is a constitutional involvement. On the gender policy area, it is absolutely for the Minister to have that engagement, and she not only wrote but had a meeting.
James Daly (Bury North) (Con)
I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement today. Does he agree that it seems quite extraordinary that the criticism of his decision today seems to be that SNP Members would have him not act on legal advice that states that this legislation impinges on the rights of women, children and some of the most vulnerable in our community? If the Secretary of State was not undertaking this action today, that would be a bigger outrage than what we have heard here today. This Government are the defender of the rights of those who are the most vulnerable and who need protecting in our society. It is a disgrace that this has been painted in the constitutional light that it has been by the SNP for its own end, rather than for the rights of women and children in our country.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
This Tory Government make me sick to my stomach. If this Secretary of State is going to come to this House and trample all over trans rights, Scottish democracy and equality, he should at the very least do his homework. Clearly, he knows as little about this Bill as he does about devolution. Are he and his Government so scared of democracy and equality that he really thinks it is justifiable to use one of the most marginalised groups in our society as political fodder in their anti-trans, anti-equality and anti-democratic endeavours?
Mr Jack
I do not recognise any of those remarks. This is about following legal advice—and not taking the decision lightly—on the adverse effects that this Bill has on two UK-wide, or GB-wide, Acts. That is the position we are in. We have written to the Scottish Government to explain our position. We will lay the statement of reasons later. This has nothing to do with trampling over transgender rights. This is entirely to do with following a legal process and taking the legal advice that we sought.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
The Secretary of State knows the value I place on the Union, so I am sure that he will understand how difficult this is for me. However, as a Scottish woman, as the mother of a Scottish daughter, and as someone who has campaigned and continues to campaign and work for women’s safety, I have heard the concerns. I have looked at every clause and amendment of this Bill and spoken with MSP colleagues from all parties, searching for the place where it undermines the Equality Act and the protections that Act offers me and every other woman I know, in single-sex and other spaces. I cannot find it. Some of the UK’s finest legal minds have pored over this hugely scrutinised Bill in great detail and found no conflict. What I can see is where the Bill guarantees that it will not challenge the primacy of the Equality Act. Can the Secretary of State point me to the exact lines of this Bill that he feels undermine my rights and those of every other woman, and justify why he is playing fast and loose with the Union and doing so much to hurt the most vulnerable people in our society?
Mr Jack
That is simply not true. I am looking to protect the vulnerable, as the hon. Lady will see. Legal opinion may well be divided on this, but the legal opinion we have taken is that there are adverse effects on the Equality Act and the Gender Recognition Act 2004. I note the First Minister’s comments earlier today that she intends to take this matter to judicial review; we will find out whether the court of opinion that I have been hearing is right or wrong when we go to the legal courts.
Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab)
I would love to hear more detail from the Minister on the legal advice that has been given, because I am still unclear how this Bill would undermine the Equality Act. Also, is it not true that the only reason we are here is because of the Government’s failure to listen to their own consultation and the 100,000 people responding to it, and because the Government are using trans people as a political football, for example by leaving them out of a conversion therapy ban until—conveniently—this week?
Mr Jack
I urge the Opposition to reflect the tone here. This is a legal decision. We need to take the heat out of this debate. We are dealing with a reduction in safeguards for women and children. That is the legal advice we have, and later, when they read the statement of reasons, they will be able to draw their own conclusions.
Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)
I am sure that the United Kingdom’s first ever female First Minister is enjoying the lecture from the Secretary of State and the various Cicero tribute acts behind him on feminism and the protection of women’s rights. Is it not the case that we have here a decaying Government in their last months of office needing some red meat for their base, and an utterly supine Labour party trying to triangulate through all of this, while trans people are the collateral damage? Just as section 28 haunted Thatcher’s Government, section 35 will always be associated with the Secretary of State. He must have the statement of reasons in that folder on his knee—let him read it out from the Dispatch Box.
Mr Jack
We will publish the statement of reasons. On the other remarks the hon. Gentleman made, opinions may vary.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
This is a calculated attack on devolution, democracy and trans rights. It is increasingly clear that this tired and bitter Tory Government will weaponise any issue, no matter how sensitive, to subvert devolution. If this is really about the Equality Act, Ministers would be referring this matter to the courts; they would not be withholding their own legal advice, but would be seen to have it tested in the courts, rather than taking, as they are, unprecedented unilateral action. What do they have to say to the Unionist Welsh Labour Minister Vaughan Gething, who today said that this UK Government undermines the Union?
Mr Jack
I entirely disagree. We are supporting the Union. The Scotland Act is what we believe in. Section 35 was democratically put there and we believe we must take the legal advice we have. People are telling me to read out the statement of reasons: the statement of reasons and my order have been submitted to the parliamentary authorities, and they will be available within the timeframe that those authorities decide to release them this afternoon. Hon. Members will be able to read everything they want to read there about the reasons behind the decision, but essentially it is about protecting and safeguarding women and children where we believe there are adverse effects.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
Against a background of rising hate crime, my trans siblings will be horrified and terrified at the level of misinformation and lies in this Chamber today. Given that the Secretary of State has had a lot of legal advice on this, presumably he has also had briefings. Can he tell us what is the effect of a gender recognition certificate? What does it entitle someone to do?
Mr Jack
We believe, as the hon. Lady will see in the statement of reasons—I have made this point very clearly—that there is a reduction in safeguards for women and children. She will have plenty of time to read that today.
Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab)
The reason the Government cannot tell us exactly what the conflict is with the Equality Act is that there is not one. The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not affect the operation of the Equality Act, and everyone in this House knows that full well, because Labour MSP Pam Duncan-Glancy put it on the face of the Bill with her amendment. Will the Minister admit that this section 35 order is really about fanning the flames of a culture war that is harming trans people across the UK?
Mr Jack
No—that is an appalling thing to say. This order is entirely addressing the legal advice I have been given, and the legal advice tells me that there is a reduction in safeguards, conflicting with two UK-wide Bills. That is the reason for the section 35 order and that is why the advice was to use it. The advice will be available to all this afternoon.
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
As has been clarified by my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black), this Bill has been under consideration by the Scottish Parliament for six years. If the UK Government thought there was some legal basis for challenging the Bill, why did they not do so in the Supreme Court through a section 33 order before now, as they have done previously?
Mr Jack
I do not want to be rude to the hon. Lady, but I am afraid what she has just said shows that she does not understand the Scotland Act or what actions are available to the United Kingdom Government. We cannot bring forward a section 33 order, or invoke section 35, while a Bill is going through the Scottish Parliament. Once the Bill has finished its third and final stage, there is a 28-day process and the legal advice—which I must say is taken on all Bills that the Scottish Parliament passes as part of the devolution settlement—and then we decide what course should be taken, based on the advice we get. On this occasion, the advice is that section 33 is not appropriate, but that section 35 is.
Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)
I think it is exceptionally discourteous of the Secretary of State to refer consistently to a statement of reasons that nobody in the Chamber except him appears to have seen. This was not an urgent question or something he did not know about; this was a statement he brought himself. We should have had the statement of reasons before he made this statement. What is it about persistent electoral failure in Scotland that makes him so averse to following the principles of basic democracy?
Mr Jack
This is beyond parody. Democracy is what the Scotland Act is. Section 35 is in the Scotland Act. The SNP voted for the Scotland Act with section 35 in it. It is a democratic instrument.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his statement and agree that women and girls must be protected and safeguarded. He will be aware that a precedent was set for the circumnavigation of devolution when the UK Government brought in abortion on demand legislation for Northern Ireland. With great respect to my colleagues and friends—I call the hon. Members representing Scotland my friends—I do not recall those hon. Members defending the cause of Northern Ireland then. Will the Minister confirm that that precedent, supported by many who are opposing this decision today, means that the Government retain the right to step in on what they deem to be questions of equality or human rights?
Mr Jack
I am not an expert on the Northern Ireland Bills, so I will not stray into that area, but we have been advised that protections and safeguards for women and children need to be looked in light of those adverse effects. That is what we are dealing with through section 35 of the Scotland Act.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
You would think that before pulling the trigger on section 35 the Secretary of State would be absolutely across his brief, but it seems that he does not have a clue about this at all. We have heard very little about process and even less about substance. He says that the Bill would have a significant impact on, among other things, GB-wide equality matters in Scotland, England and Wales, so what consultation did he have with the Welsh Government or the Senedd before this drastic intervention, or is this really a priority issue for the de facto English Government? With independence looming larger than ever before this crumbling Union, is this not an act of desperate democratic vandalism?
Mr Jack
No. The Minister for Women and Equalities, my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi Badenoch), tells me that the UK Government consulted a number of years ago, and Wales would have been included in that consultation. The point is that there is no democratic vandalism, or whatever the hon. Gentleman was saying. The Act that contains section 35 is entirely democratic, and we are now using that order to protect women and children’s safeguards, which we believe are undermined by the cut-across in two GB-wide laws.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
In his response to the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), the right hon. Gentleman said that section 35 of the 1998 Act was not an instrument of last resort, but the memorandum of understanding signed in 2012 made it an instrument of last resort by common agreement, so what discussions on a constitutional basis has the Secretary of State had with the First Minister of Scotland to avoid this impasse?
Mr Jack
It is not the last resort. What I said to the shadow Secretary of State was that we have 28 days in which to take legal advice and act. Failing that, the Bill goes for Royal Assent. That is the timeframe we operate in. There is then the opportunity for further discussions with the Scottish Government to see if we can get the legislation in scope. We made the same offer with the UNCRC (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill, which we took to a section 33 order, and that offer still stands. We are happy to discuss with the Scottish Government what amendments could be made to the Bill to get it in scope so that it does not have adverse effects on UK-wide legislation. There is never quite a last resort when you can go on talking, discussing and trying to resolve your differences.
Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)
It is true that under section 35, UK Ministers have the right to interfere in Scottish legislation on the grounds of defence, national security or international obligations, or if the Scottish legislation modifies or has an adverse effect on UK reserved law—that much is clear. But given that the Tory Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) said that the GRR legislation
“doesn’t change the Equality Act”,
and that the Scottish Secretary has been signally incapable of giving a single example of where it might do so, this is not a debate about process; it is a debate about principle. Would it not be better, instead of interfering and engaging in a rather crass culture war, if the Scottish Secretary apologised to trans people, apologised for trampling over Scottish democracy, folded up his little red folder, and removed the threat to interfere?
Mr Jack
I say again: let us take the heat out of this debate. This is about the Equality Act 2010, which is a GB-wide piece of legislation. The legal advice we have is that there are adverse effects to that law—that is entirely what it is—and it will be published this afternoon in the statement of reasons.
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)
I stand in solidarity with Scottish colleagues across the political spectrum. It is worth pointing out that we work to harmonise equality rights issues, but the UK is not a unitary state in these matters. The Secretary of State has jumped backwards and forwards in describing the Equality Act either as UK-wide or Great Britain-wide, but to make very clear for the record, it does not apply in Northern Ireland. Does he recognise that similar legislation has been in place in the Republic of Ireland for more than seven years now? We in the UK have a common travel area with Ireland, which has reciprocal rights in freedom of movement, social security and other areas. If the Government can manage to live with Ireland’s different system for gender recognition, why can they not do so for Scotland?
Mr Jack
Last time I looked, the Republic of Ireland was not part of Great Britain or the United Kingdom. It is absolutely the case that we are talking about British citizens being affected. I am told that no devolved Administration anywhere in Europe has different gender rules from the state.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
It is regrettable that the Secretary of State has come here today with so little information on the issue. I think that all those in the very vulnerable group who are impacted by what he wants to do deserve significantly better than him standing up repeatedly with absolutely no information and telling us that a statement of reasons will be published later. Yet he is unable to tell us what those reasons are. It is his job to tell us what they are, and he has signally failed to do so. It is no wonder that his former colleague Andy Maciver, the former head of communications for the Scottish Conservatives, has described the UK Government’s intervention as
“an act of constitutional vandalism”
that demonstrates
“Westminster’s superiority complex in overdrive”.
Does the Secretary of State recognise that people will reasonably and rightly feel that way, and that, as well as their concerns about this marginalised group, they will feel extremely unhappy about the overriding of our democracy?
Mr Jack
No. I hope people will realise that the United Kingdom Government have been given legal advice that raises concerns for women and children, for their safeguards and protections, and about adverse effects to UK-wide legislation, and that we are acting on that advice and have the backs of women and children across the United Kingdom, including in Scotland, if safeguards and single-sex spaces and so on are impinged upon. If that is the concern in the statement of reasons, we believe it right to act on it for all citizens of Great Britain.
Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)
In 2021, the Women and Equalities Committee published a report stating clearly that the gender recognition certificate did not—as is still the case—impinge on the rights of women or girls. It stated unequivocally that the exclusions applied in all instances and that women and girls would continue to be protected regardless of the gender recognition certificate. The same applies in the case of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, and nothing in the proposals contradicts that. Will the Minister outline clearly to the House what legal advice he has been given? We are still waiting for an answer.
Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)
Is that it? These answers are absolutely pathetic. Why can states and territories in the US, Canada and Australia successfully operate self-ID without interference or complaint from either neighbouring territories or central Government, but it cannot happen here even though we are supposed to have the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world?
Why does the equalities unit fact sheet produced by the Government for their own consultation on self-ID state clearly:
“There will be no change to the provision of women-only spaces and services… This has been the law since 2010 and will not change”?
The Secretary of State is scrabbling around for legal advice to peddle myths in this Chamber, isn’t he?
Mr Jack
I did say that there was no devolved Administration in Europe that had different gender rules to the state. The hon. Gentleman raises the USA, Canada and Australia, where there is no central ID law, because, differently, they have federal structures.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
Perhaps the Secretary of State could take some heat out of this argument by confirming a few matters of fact of which a lot of his colleagues seem to be unaware. Can he confirm that this rushed piece of legislation has been under six years of scrutiny by the Scottish Parliament? Can he confirm that during that period and the last Scottish Parliament elections, an overwhelming majority of MSPs were elected on explicit manifesto commitments in favour of this legislation? Can he confirm that there is absolutely nothing in this legislation that makes any difference to the rights or ability of anybody to go into any protected single-sex space in Scotland or anywhere else in the world? Finally, when he eventually has the courtesy to let us see what he intends to put forward and the advice on which it is based, will he guarantee that this House will have a further chance to consider and vote on what he is proposing?
Mr Jack
I did not catch everything the hon. Gentleman said—my tinnitus gets the better of me sometimes. As to all the legal reasons, we have covered that a hundred times today. As to whether there will be a chance for another debate and another vote, my understanding of section 35 is that the Opposition have 40 days to pray against it, and that would then lead to a debate in this Parliament.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for vetoing Scotland will be disappointed when he eventually gets to the House of Lords, because, even for all its faults, the House of Lords does not have the kind of veto power that he is exercising today. Even if the United States President vetoes a Bill, it is subject to checks and balances from Congress. Further to what my hon. Friend the Member for Glenrothes (Peter Grant) just said, if a motion is tabled praying against the section 35 order, will the Government guarantee that time will be made available for a debate and a vote on the Floor of the House?
Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP)
In the Secretary of State’s statement, he said:
“It is open to the Scottish Government to bring back an amended Bill for reconsideration in the Scottish Parliament.”
What provisions would need to be added or taken away from the original Bill to make it acceptable to this Government?
Mr Jack
Regarding any amendment to the Bill, if the Scottish Government want to bring it back, they have to address the central issue—I know there are difficulties for them with this—which is that we do not believe, in the cross-cut against GB legislation, that there are sufficient protections and safeguards for women and children, as reflected in existing Westminster legislation.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 4 months ago)
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Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
There are many benefits of leaving the EU for Scotland. They include: the ability to agree new trade deals and strategic partnerships, controlling our borders, ensuring that regulation fits the needs of the United Kingdom, control of our fishing waters and the ability to improve the competitiveness of our economy while maintaining high standards.
Marion Fellows
Statistics from His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs show that Scottish exports have plummeted by £2.2 billion over the two years since Brexit, which has already cost Scotland’s economy around £4 billion. The consequences of Brexit have been invariably harmful. What is the Secretary of State for Scotland doing to protect Scotland from this Tory-imposed act of economic self-harm?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady quotes statistics for the two years following Brexit, but those of course are two years where we had other factors to take into account, not only covid and many lockdowns across Europe, but the illegal war in Ukraine. In the first two quarters of 2022, the United Kingdom did more trade with the European Union than it did in any quarter when we were members of the European Union.
Angela Crawley
Brexit has cost the UK £40 billion a year in tax revenue. That would be enough to fill the black hole caused by the Tory mini-Budget, along with yet another round of Tory austerity. Scotland did not vote for Brexit, for this Government, the last one or the one before that, so does the Secretary of State think it is right that Scotland should suffer due to his party’s extreme Brexit ideology?
Mr Jack
This Government respect democracy. We respect the outcome of referendums. There was a referendum in 2014 on Scottish independence. We respected the result; the Scottish National party has not. In 2016, the United Kingdom, which we are all part of, voted to leave the European Union, and we delivered on that.
Martyn Day
A report from the Nuffield Trust has found that Brexit is worsening NHS workforce challenges, particularly the recruitment of specialities. Trade barriers have driven up costs and made shortages of medicines and medical devices worse in the UK than in Europe. Why should the people of Scotland suffer worse health outcomes as a consequence of a Brexit they did not vote for?
Mr Jack
I would say that the people of Scotland are suffering worse health outcomes because of the incompetence of the Scottish Government to run the health system. Regarding NHS recruitment, I further add that we have a points-based system. It creates flexibility and allows us to deal with the skills gap, and a points-based system was the former policy of the Scottish National party.
Alyn Smith
Brexit has demonstrably been a disaster for the Scottish fisheries sector. The catchers and the processors are having a dreadful time, but even these trading arrangements are due to end in 2026 under the trade and co-operation agreement. What thought has the Secretary of State given to the future trading arrangements after 2026, or will it be just another betrayal?
Mr Jack
We have taken control of our waters. We have left the hated common fisheries policy. We have seen our quota increase by 30,000 tonnes this year in negotiations. We are going to take full control of our waters at the end of the five-year period, and with the other things we are putting in place to support industry, we will increase the processing business, as well.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
It is interesting to follow the previous question. Does my right hon. Friend agree that additional UK fishing opportunities totalling about £750 million—that is on top of the TCA agreement—have been secured in recent end-of-year negotiations? Does he agree with me and the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation that Scottish industry and Scottish Government Ministers and officials have a stronger voice in the annual negotiations since leaving the EU, and the hated common fisheries policy, than ever they would have when we were still in the EU?
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend is a great advocate for the fishing industry, and I agree with everything he says. We have a stronger voice. We have increased our tonnage by 30,000 tonnes, and we will continue to increase it. Everything he does to support that industry is laudable.
Douglas Chapman
This Government seem hellbent on destroying the Scottish seafood sector. Some £60 million has been spent on additional Brexit paperwork alone, while export delays and exclusions undermine our export potential. What has happened to the Brexit sea of opportunity that was promised, and does the Minister accept the assessment of the Scottish White Fish Producers Association that Brexit has
“failed to deliver any benefits”
of a coastal state?
Mr Jack
I do not accept that assessment. Certain sectors of the fishing industry have made much progress and seen many benefits. On the processing sector, we are looking at what the shortage occupation list could do to help the sector and at further investment in the north-east. I am confident that there is a sea of opportunity, which we will see over the five-year period, and that, at the end of those five years, the fishing sector will not be jumping up and down saying, “Let’s get back into the common fisheries policy.”
Stuart C. McDonald
The brilliant EU citizens who contribute to Scotland’s communities, public services and economy include more than 100,000 people who currently have the precarious pre-settled status. The High Court in England recently ruled that the requirement of a further application to preserve their rights here was unlawful and contrary to the withdrawal treaty. Will the Secretary of State agree that the judgment is welcome and should be respected—providing, as it does, security for those EU citizens and protecting their ongoing contributions to Scotland and the UK?
Mr Jack
We welcome all EU citizens with settled status and think it is absolutely right that those systems are in place. If the hon. Gentleman has any further questions regarding the matter, I suggest he raise the matter at Home Office questions. I think the system that we have is working and is fair.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
When conducting his assessment, did the Secretary of State include figures for the impact of implementing the Schengen borders code between Scotland and England, including the requirements for border infrastructure, that would be required if we listened to the SNP and implemented its policies?
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend makes a good point. There is not just the issue of freedom of movement of people across the United Kingdom, but the fact that while 20% of Scotland’s trade is with the EU and 20% with the rest of the world, 60% is with the rest of the United Kingdom.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
My colleagues have highlighted just some of the negative impacts of Brexit on individuals, businesses, universities and public services in Scotland. There simply are no real Brexit opportunities or sunlit uplands. Does it therefore come as a surprise to the Secretary of State that a poll last year showed that 69% of Scottish voters want to rejoin the EU?
Mr Jack
I welcome the hon. Lady to her new role, and thank the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black) for her positive engagement in the role previously.
Opinion polls come and go; we have seen that. Last week, we saw that 59% of Scots want to remain in the United Kingdom—I notice that that opinion poll was not quoted. As for the benefits of Brexit, we can make our own trade deals, and we have made 71 to date. The SNP has never seen a trade deal it liked—it has never voted for a trade deal in the European Parliament or in this Parliament. There are further benefits: we have left the hated common fisheries policy; I know the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) is very keen on the health sector, and we had an accelerated vaccine programme roll-out; we had a fast and decisive response to the war in Ukraine; and we are able to make our own laws, one of which is precision breeding, which, again, we would like the Scottish Government to support.
Dr Whitford
I thank the Secretary of State for his warm welcome, but I must point out that June Raine, the head of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, has said innumerable times that the accelerated roll-out was under European Medicines Agency legislation. With the Labour party having now lashed itself to the mast of the floundering Brexit ship, does the Secretary of State at least recognise that the only route back to the EU for Scotland is as an independent country?
Mr Jack
The deficit in Scotland is considerably higher than 3%, which is the Maastricht criteria, so that is not the route back. The currency is a problem as well—as we know, the Bank of England is the bank of last resort, and there would have to be a new currency in Scotland following membership of the EU. There is no desire in Scotland to have membership of the EU. I believe that when Scots stop and look at the detail, whether it is on their pensions, trade or currency, they know that their home is the United Kingdom.
Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)
Scottish Referendum Legislation: Supreme Court Decision
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 5 months ago)
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Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the decision of the Supreme Court and the rights of the Scottish Parliament to call for an independence referendum.
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
I am grateful to the right hon. Member for providing me with the opportunity to address the House on this important ruling of the Supreme Court on the issue of the competence of the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum on independence.
The UK Supreme Court has today determined that it is outside the powers of the Scottish Parliament to hold an independence referendum, and I respect the Court’s clear and definitive ruling on this matter. The Scottish Government’s Lord Advocate referred this question to the Supreme Court, which has today given its judgment, and the UK Government’s position has always been clear: that it would be outside the Scottish Parliament’s competence to legislate for a referendum on Scottish independence because it is a matter wholly reserved to the United Kingdom Parliament.
We welcome the Court’s unanimous and unequivocal ruling, which supports the United Kingdom Government’s long-standing position on this matter. People want to see the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government focus on issues that matter to them, not on constitutional division. People across Scotland rightly want and expect to see both their Governments—the United Kingdom Government and the Scottish Government—working together with a relentless focus on the issues that matter to them, their families and their communities.
The Prime Minister has been very clear, and has demonstrated since day one, that it is our duty to work constructively with the Scottish Government. We fully respect the devolution settlement and we want to work together with the Scottish Government on vital areas such as tackling the cost of living, growing our economy and leading the international response to Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine.
At this time of unprecedented challenges, the benefits of being part of the United Kingdom have never been more apparent. The United Kingdom Government are providing the Scottish Government with a record block grant settlement of £41 billion per year over the next three years, and the people in Scotland are benefiting from unprecedented cost of living support announced by this Prime Minister and our Chancellor. It is important now that we move on from constitutional issues, to focus on tackling our shared challenges. I therefore welcome the Supreme Court’s judgment, and I call on the Scottish Government to set aside these divisive constitutional issues so that we can work together, focusing all of our attention and resources on the key issues that matter to the people of Scotland.
The United Kingdom Government are proud of their role as the custodian of the devolution settlement. The United Kingdom is one of the most successful political and economic unions in the world. By promoting and protecting its combined strengths, we are building on hundreds of years of partnership and shared history. I will conclude by saying that when we work together as one United Kingdom, we are safer, stronger and more prosperous.
Ian Blackford
Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker.
It is right that the UK Government answer questions today, and answer them quickly, because this morning the Supreme Court dealt with a question of law; there is now a massive question of democracy. Some of the Westminster parties are already wildly celebrating this morning’s decision, but I think it is safe to say that their thoughtless triumphalism will not last very long, because this judgment raises profound and deeply uncomfortable questions about the basis of the future of the United Kingdom.
The biggest question of all is how the Prime Minister can ever again repeat the myth that the United Kingdom is a voluntary union of nations. In 2014, the Smith Commission made it clear that
“nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.”
If that is true and if the Secretary of State’s Government are still committed to that promise, will he urgently amend the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish people have the right to choose our own future? If he fails to do that, is he deliberately choosing to deny democracy, because a so-called partnership in which one partner is denied the right to choose a different future, or even to ask itself the question, cannot be described in any way as a voluntary partnership, or even a partnership at all?
Today’s decision casts focus on the democratic decisions of the Scottish people. Since 2014, the Scottish National party has won eight elections in a row. We have secured multiple mandates. The question is: how many times do people in Scotland have to vote for a referendum before they get it?
The more contempt the Westminster establishment shows for Scottish democracy, the more certain it is that Scotland will vote yes when the choice comes to be made. Scotland did not vote for Brexit. We did not vote for a new age of Tory austerity. We did not vote for this Prime Minister, and we have not voted for the Tories in Scotland since 1955. What we did vote for was the choice of a different future. If Westminster keeps blocking our democratic decisions, lawfully and democratically Scotland will find a way out of this Union.
Mr Jack
This idea that a mandate was delivered in 2021 in the Holyrood elections is completely misleading. As the First Minister herself said very clearly in an interview in The Herald—this is when she thought that the former First Minister, the previous SNP leader Alex Salmond, was gaming the system with his party Alba—that parties should stand on both the list and first-past-the-post constituency systems. The Greens did not fulfil that and neither did Alba. Let us be clear: in the 2021 Holyrood elections—the so-called mandate—less than one third of the Scottish electorate voted for the SNP.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
I begin by thanking the Supreme Court for examining this case in detail, for reaching a unanimous decision and for doing so in a speedy manner. I also thank the Scottish Lord Advocate for referring this case to the Supreme Court. She was right not to allow it to be launched in the Scottish Parliament before seeking legal clarity on this matter, and we are all in a better place now for that clarity having been put forward. The Supreme Court’s ruling is absolutely clear and concise.
The Leader of the SNP has just accused those who are against independence of “triumphalism”. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are deeply disappointed and angry that the politics in Scotland is paralysed by this constitutional grievance. It is now time for all of us in Scottish politics to focus on the problems facing our country, from rocketing bills to the crisis in the NHS, and I wish the SNP had such passion for doing that. I fear that that will not happen after the First Minister announced that she will turn the next general election into a de facto referendum. As an example, the SNP has made such a mess of our NHS that, earlier this week, it was reported that NHS chiefs have been discussing plans to privatise our health service—Labour’s and perhaps our country’s greatest achievement.
There is not a majority in Scotland for a referendum or for independence, but neither is the majority for the status quo. There is a majority in Scotland, and across the UK, for change. This failing and incapable Tory Government are unfit to govern this country. They have crashed the economy and they are as big a threat to the Union as any nationalist. People in Scotland and across the UK are sick of watching their incompetence, our national standing falling in the world, and working people paying for their decisions, but change is coming. It is coming with a UK Labour Government that will bring economic growth, raise living standards and restore our nation’s place in the world.
Does the Secretary of State agree that change is indeed coming and that Scottish voters will lead the way by kicking his Government out of office and helping to elect a UK Labour Government?
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
My constituents will not be celebrating this outcome, but they will be deeply relieved that, with all the other issues that they face, they are not going to be facing a hugely divisive independence referendum next October. In my constituency, people cannot access an NHS dentist. They cannot access a GP. They can hardly get an ambulance to come out, and our local hospital was overwhelmed two weeks ago. On that basis, does my right hon. Friend agree that this is the time to move on and focus on the issues that really matter to our constituents in Scotland?>
Mr Jack
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right and I know he has put in a lot of work on this subject in the past. The Scottish Government must focus on the people’s priorities. Public services in Scotland are falling behind and failing in many areas and it is important that we now stop the constitutional wrangling and focus on the people’s priorities. That is what they want us to do.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
Democracy denial is not a good look. We have had repeated non-answers and repeated assertions from those on the Tory Benches today that they somehow know better than the people of Scotland what they want. Now we have an extraordinary suggestion from the Secretary of State that we somehow do not have a mandate. None of those things is correct and none of those things deals with the crux of the issue. This is a fundamental issue of democracy and whether this really is a voluntary Union. Is the Secretary of State going to stand up for democracy or not?
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
Now that we have clarity from the Supreme Court, I urge my right hon. Friend to redouble his efforts to work with the Scottish Government and local authorities in Scotland to deliver on the issues that matter to people. My experience of two years in the Scotland Office is that there is an appetite to work together on welfare, where there is shared responsibility, on the city deals and on many other issues. That is what we should be focusing on, not more divisive referendums.
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend is right. It is not just about what is in front of us, but what is behind us. Behind us is the furlough scheme, which supported 900,000 jobs during the pandemic, and the £1.5 billion of Barnett support that the Chancellor announced in his autumn statement; in front of us is not just the growth deals, but freeports and forthcoming cost of living support.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
This ruling is bad for the Government, and I do not think they quite see that yet. This ruling confronts the Scottish people with the fact that there is no legal or democratic route to a referendum. All that will do is to infuriate the Scottish people and make sure that they have their demands for Scottish democracy in place. What we have not had is the how. How do we now get to a referendum if the legal and democratic means are closed? The Prime Minister was asked, and the Secretary of State has now been asked, so will he now please answer?
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
May I just point out to my right hon. Friend that it was in fact the United Kingdom Parliament that gave Scotland a referendum in 2014—[Interruption.] Oh yes! Does he recall that the SNP then said it was a once-in-a-generation decision? Has he ever known a generation to pass so quickly, in just eight years? Could it be that the SNP prefers campaigning for a referendum it cannot have because it wants to distract attention from the failures of the Scottish Government on schools, on health, on procurement of ferries and on many other issues?
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
The judgment today puts the point beyond any measure of doubt, and that is to be welcomed. I also welcome the announcement from the Scottish Government that they will respect the judgment of the court, because for Governments to respect the rule of law is very important. We shall hold them to that commitment in the future. Will the Secretary of State assure me that, while demanding respect for the rule of law from others, the Government of which he is part will do the same?
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
I, too, welcome the unanimous ruling by the Supreme Court and respect that judgment, as other Members have said. As my right hon. Friend has pointed out, current polling and past election results do not show a majority of voters in Scotland favouring independence-supporting parties. Does he agree that there is no evidence that the democratic mandate has changed since 2014?
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
The United Kingdom Supreme Court has answered a legal question this morning, not a political one. The lesson of history is that a nation’s exercise of its right to self-determination can be delayed, but not denied. Can the right hon. Gentleman answer the question that the Prime Minister could not or would not answer: if people living in Scotland continue to elect a majority of pro-independence Members of the Scottish Parliament and MPs who support a second independence referendum, what is the democratic route to realising that mandate?
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
I welcome the clarity of the judgment by the Supreme Court. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that the constant political wrangling and doubts over Scotland’s constitutional status and the capacity for and prospect of holding a referendum will constantly undermine Scotland’s attractiveness to private investors, who would create the jobs, wealth and prosperity that people in Scotland rightly deserve?
Mr Jack
Yes. Having been a businessman before I came into this place, I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is unattractive to investors when there is uncertainty and a cloud hanging over Scotland on this matter. Far better the Scottish Government put it behind them now—the ruling is very clear—and we move forward to building the Scottish economy for the benefit of all the people in Scotland.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
We sit here in this House knowing that Scottish politicians will only ever make up a fraction of the seats. We have a UK Government that the people of Scotland did not vote for—indeed, a UK Prime Minister that nobody voted for. Bearing all that in mind, may I ask Westminster’s man in Scotland to name just one scenario under which he would agree to the people of Scotland being able to determine their own democratic future?
Mr Jack
As I have said in my answers, the route to a referendum is when there is consensus between Governments, across political parties and across civic Scotland, as there was in 2014. That is not the case now: now, the UK Government want to focus on the Scottish economy, on creating freeports, on supporting people with the cost of living and on getting on with the day job, which is what I think the Scottish Government should do.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
As someone of Scottish descent, may I say that there are many of us living in the United Kingdom, across the four separate territories, who have an enormous fondness and love for Scotland? When I have visited Scotland, for example, the European Marine Energy Centre in Orkney—I notice, by the way, that the leader of the SNP in Westminster has never visited it himself—Nova Innovation outside Edinburgh or the Rosyth shipyards, it was to support great businesses, based in Scotland, doing exciting things that the United Kingdom can promote abroad for the benefit of us all. Surely that is the most important thing we could all focus on today?
Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
I am a bit puzzled. Why do this Government, who do not have a mandate in Scotland, continue to refuse the right of the Scottish people to hold a referendum, as things have changed enormously since 2014?
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)
The SNP mistakes its obsession with independence for the obsession of the people of Scotland. As we have already heard, that is simply not the case. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, rather than going down the rabbit hole of creating a constitutional crisis, all our constituents, north and south of the border, want us to focus on making our public services work? That is an area in which the SNP conspicuously fails.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
The Tryweryn vote in 1957 taught people in Wales that Welsh MPs can always be overridden by the structural tyranny of the majority here in Westminster. The First Minister of Wales, himself a Unionist, is on record as saying that the UK can be sustained only
“as a voluntary association of four nations, in which we choose to pool our sovereignty for common purposes and for common benefits.”
Given that the Labour Front-Bench team has parroted the same lines as the Tories this afternoon, will the Secretary of State write to the First Minister of Wales to confirm whether we are voluntary partners in this Union or involuntary inmates?
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
The smug, patronising and cloth-eared response from the Prime Minister, the so-called Secretary of State for Scotland and Tory Members to the ripping away of democratic human rights from the Scottish people will be seen by many Scots today. Imagine the uproar if the European Parliament and European courts had denied this Parliament the right to legislate on the Brexit referendum. The Secretary of State was unwilling, or simply unable, to answer that question when asked by the Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). How does any member country leave this so-called voluntary Union?
Mr Jack
I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has read the Supreme Court judgment, but it makes it very clear that the matter is reserved to the Westminster Parliament. On the mandate argument, it is clear that less than a third of the Scottish electorate voted for the SNP last year.
Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
I will ask the Secretary of State the same question that I asked the Prime Minister just a short while ago, to which I am still waiting for an answer. What is the route for a nation to leave this so-called voluntary Union? He has answered three times now referring to a majority of votes, so would the Government respect the result of a general election as a de facto referendum?
Colum Eastwood (Foyle) (SDLP)
A former Member of Parliament for Cork City once said:
“No man has the right to fix a boundary to the march of a nation. No man has the right to say to his country, ‘Thus far shalt thou go and no further’.”
Of course, this Parliament no longer has a Member for Cork City, because Charles Stewart Parnell was right. This United Kingdom is clearly not a partnership of equals—that has been made absolutely clear today—so when will the Government publish clear criteria for how the people of the north of Ireland can leave it?
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
Can the Secretary of State confirm that his view is that this is a voluntary Union? If so, by what mechanism can the Scottish people, in the future, have their choice about whether to remain within it?
Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)
Things have changed dramatically since 2014. I remind the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), that in 2019 he said:
“a democracy fails to be a democracy if the public are not allowed to change their mind.”—[Official Report, 8 April 2019; Vol. 658, c. 124.]
Back in 2012, Alistair Darling said:
“Today we are equal partners in the United Kingdom.”
Today, our First Minister noted that this ruling confirms that the notion of the UK as a voluntary partnership is no longer—if it ever was—a reality. Why will the Secretary of State not acknowledge that the only way for Scotland to be treated as an equal is with its independence?
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Our Secretary of State for Scotland, who can go to the unelected House of Lords at a time of his choosing, is setting democratic tests on how Scotland can choose its own future. It is fanciful and absurd. If he is so confident in his view of what the Scottish people’s priorities are, why does he not call our bluff by calling a referendum?
Mr Jack
As the hon. Gentleman knows, we had a referendum in 2014, and we know what the agreement on that was between the Governments, political parties and civic Scotland. We feel now that the priorities for Scotland are for us all to pull together, work to bring back the economy after covid, tackle the cost of living crisis, and get in front of the issues that we believe are the priorities for the people of Scotland.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
The legal position is now clear, but the political decision that needs to be made must also be clear. Under no circumstances should the power to hold referendums be devolved—be it to Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales—because we know that nationalism-obsessed politicians will use that power to call continual referendums until they get the result they want, to distort political debate, and to cover up their own governmental incompetence. I plead with the Government not to even contemplate going down that road. However, they also need to do far more, whether in the Northern Ireland, Welsh or Scottish context, to sell the benefits of the Union, which are apparent to everybody.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
I will give the Secretary of State the opportunity to say something interesting. If this Union is genuinely based on consent, how can the people of Scotland demonstrate that they have withdrawn that consent?
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
In 2014, the people of Glasgow voted for independence, and I am sure that if the question were put before them again, they would do so again. But we are not in 2014. Does the Secretary of State accept that democracy did not exist only on 18 September 2014? Democracy is a living thing. Does he accept that the people have the right to change their mind?
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
This important ruling settles the question for now—certainly on the legal matter. Does the Secretary of State think that it gives us ample time to investigate what else the Scottish Government are doing? The debate about the referendum has thrown up a lot of sand, but the Scottish Government are underachieving in so many areas of public service, and that needs to be shown.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. The more people yell out, the further down the order they will go. I call Alan Brown.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
We are supposed to be living in a parliamentary democracy. As such, last year the SNP won 62 out of 73 constituency seats—85% of the seats. That is equivalent to a party here winning 552 seats. There is a pro-independence majority in Holyrood, and in the last four elections, a majority of voters voted for parties that support independence and having a referendum. If the Secretary of State is going to ignore a parliamentary democracy and parliamentary votes of the people, what is the route for the people of Scotland to have a referendum and have their say?
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
A union, like a marriage, should be based upon equality and consent. It is clear when a marriage has run its course how a partner can extricate themselves from it, but we are yet to find out from the Secretary of State how we can extricate ourselves from this Union.
Mr Jack
I believe what we have is a collaborative and constructive partnership, and I think history shows that. I have been very clear: the answer is when there is consensus between the two Governments, across all political parties and civic Scotland. Let us be honest, polling shows that less than a third of Scots want another referendum and, as I said earlier and repeat again, less than a third of the Scottish electorate voted for the Scottish National party last year. When we face all those things and look at people’s priorities in polling, independence is right down the rankings. It is not what they go to bed at night worrying about. They worry about the health system, the education system, crime, drug deaths and whether or not they can get a ferry to their island. That is what they worry about.
Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP)
Given how many Prime Ministers previously defended the Union, I am surprised there are so few Unionists here to defend it today. I want to quote John Major, who said that
“no nation could be held irrevocably in a Union against its will.”
Does the future Baron agree with that statement?
Mr Jack
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the remarks I made earlier. Polling shows the Scottish people do not want another referendum. There is not massive dissatisfaction with the Union. It is very low on the Scottish people’s list of priorities. What they want is our two Governments to start working together to deliver their priorities. That is what they want us to do.
Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)
On the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, we have been meeting our parallel scrutiny committees in the devolved legislatures. Some 20 years on, it is clear that devolution, parliamentary scrutiny functions and the inter-Union functions are not working and need improving. Our Union was forced and often violently formed, but it has for centuries successfully built, through consent and citizen recognition that unity is strength. The hallmark of this Government is ignorance of our history, disrespect for those institutions across the devolution settlement and a failure to engage across all Departments with the committees and bodies that have been formed to enhance the political Union. What the Secretary of State needs to take from this ruling is a need to force the Government to treat those institutions with the respect they deserve to keep our Union.
Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)
The Secretary of State has referenced a number of times the suggestion that only a third of the electorate in Scotland voted for the SNP at the last Scottish election. In that same election, the Conservatives secured less than 15% of the electorate voting for them, so we need a bit of context. This all comes down to a basic question: if not through the route of a referendum through the Scottish Parliament, what is the democratic route for Scotland to determine our own future? Countless Members have asked. Where is the answer?
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP)
The Supreme Court today did not rule that Scotland should not be independent or that Scotland should not be able to have a referendum; it ruled that the existing legislation written by Unionist politicians does not allow the Scottish Government to make that decision, unless the UK Government are willing to amend it, as they did in 2014. That is the legal argument.
I want to know what the democratic argument is against Scotland being able to do that. In the Scottish Parliament elections—one of the eight elections we have won since 2014—not only did the SNP leaflets say, “Vote SNP for a referendum on independence”, but the Tory leaflets, the Labour leaflets and the Liberal Democrat leaflets all said it. What is the democratic argument against Scotland and the people of Scotland being able to simply answer that question?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. It is important, if we are to get everybody in, that the questions are short.
Mr Jack
It is important we get everyone in and they have their say. I refer the hon. Lady to the answer I gave earlier: less than a third of the Scottish electorate voted for the Scottish National party. It is entirely a matter of consensus, and at the moment we believe that the priorities should be elsewhere. The cost of living, supporting people through inflation, the energy price cap, getting on and delivering freeports, delivering on the growth deals—those are the things that we think the people of Scotland expect us to do.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
I welcome the Supreme Court ruling today. I have sat patiently and listened to SNP Members, one after another, reflect what could fairly be said to be the concerns of their political party. Unfortunately, they do not reflect the concerns I get in my mailbox every day from constituents across Edinburgh West, who are concerned about the cost of living, energy prices, the state of the NHS in Scotland and the teacher strikes we are about to face. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is time they stopped this self-indulgent obsession and addressed the real issues that concern the people of Scotland?
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
I agree with my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry), who was clear that this is a legal position by the Supreme Court that I think the entire Chamber welcomes. It is a legal opinion requested by the Scottish Government. My hon. Friend the Member for Dundee West (Chris Law), who is no longer in their place, mentioned a Prime Minister. Does the Secretary of State agree with the former Baroness Thatcher, who said that “as a nation”, Scots
“have an undoubted right to national self-determination”?
The question to Westminster’s man in Scotland is this: does he agree with the former British Prime Minister, Baroness Thatcher, about Scotland’s right to national self- determination, and if he does not, what is he doing in the Scotland Office?
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
All the leaflets from the right hon. Gentleman’s party at the last eight elections have said, “Vote Tory to stop an independence referendum”. I am confused, because he says today that the question was settled in 2014. Why, then, did he put out leaflets telling people to vote against a referendum? Clearly, despite being asked a number of times, the Secretary of State is unable to tell this House and the people of Scotland the democratic route out of this Union. He is unable to do it. Is that why he is scurrying off to the House of Lords, because he cannot face his constituents at the next election? Does he not realise that the people of Scotland are sovereign, and they are watching?
Mr Jack
To pick up on the hon. Lady’s middle point, which was the only relevant point she made, the reason why leaflets in general elections say no to a second independence referendum is simply because the Scottish National party is obsessed with an independence referendum and nothing else.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (Ind)
In 2014, people in Scotland were told that if they voted yes the value of pensions would collapse, supermarkets would be empty of food and energy prices would rocket, and that if they voted no, freedom of movement would be guaranteed, the UK would have as close to federalism as possible and the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) would never become Prime Minister. Did the people of Scotland get what they voted for in 2014?
Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)
As of 10 am today, we no longer have a Union of equals. This Union has ceased to be; it is bereft of life; it is a dead Union. When will the UK Government respect the people of Scotland and their right to choose? Now is not the time to deny them.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
The Secretary of State says that in order for there to be democracy, there needs to be cross-party support, and that there needs to cross-support in order for us to have an independence referendum, but there was not cross-party support for a Brexit referendum, austerity or the demonisation of immigrants. Why does the Conservative party get to be the arbiter of what does and does not require democratic support?
Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)
On 18 September 2014, the people of Inverclyde voted to remain in the Union by 86 votes. A few short months later, they returned me as the SNP MP on an independence manifesto; they had changed their mind. They returned me in 2017 and 2019—if the Government want to go again I will go again. But what is the route for the people of Inverclyde to express their views now in a referendum?
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The judges have quite clearly rejected the Scottish Government’s argument that they can hold a second referendum. Legal authority lies with the UK here, in this place. There have been clear attempts to manipulate devolution. With the rise in the cost of living and the increasing evils of the Putin regime, does the Minister agree that what is needed now is a campaign and a strategy to illustrate the advantages of the Union, showing that we are stronger together? We must focus on strengthening the Union, our economy and our joint prosperity.
Ms Anum Qaisar (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
From the Scottish child payment to free prescriptions, to not really supporting the war in Iraq to free period products, Scotland has consistently chosen a different path from Westminster. I am reminded today of the words of the late Bashir Ahmad MSP, who said that
“it isn’t important where you come from, what matters is where we are going together as a nation”.
Many Scots like me support independence on the principle that decisions for Scotland should be made in Scotland, by the people of Scotland. Will the Secretary of State for Scotland clarify whether Scotland has the democratic right to choose her own path if she continues to vote for a majority of independence-supporting MSPs up at Holyrood and independence-supporting MPs here at Westminster?
Mr Jack
I have answered the second part of the hon. Lady’s question a number of times already. In answer to the first part of her question, about the various policies she outlined, that is why we respect and strengthen devolution at every opportunity, whereas the Scottish National party wants to destroy devolution.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
This is nothing short of parody. I have been an MP here for nearly three years and I have never heard a Minister say “I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago” as many times as this. That is because the so-called Secretary of State for Scotland has his back against the wall because he is denying democracy and democratic norms. He and all the other Tories say that we cannot have another referendum because we do not want to foment the division that exists around the constitutional space in Scotland—well, it exists already, so let us lance the boil. Let us have a referendum and find out what the people of Scotland want.
Mr Jack
To pick up on the hon. Gentleman’s first point, the reason I say that I have answered the question so many times before is that hon. Members are asking the same question time and again—it is just a little bit repetitive. The answer is quite simple. As I have explained many times before, the route to a referendum in 2014 involved consensus between both Governments, across all the political parties and across civic Scotland. We are far from being in that place now.
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)
The decisions taken in Westminster dictate the impact of issues such as the costing of living crisis on my constituents and all the people of Scotland. They deserve to have their voices heard, and we can all agree that the landscape has changed since 2014. How will the UK Government work with the Scottish Government to allow the Scottish people to choose whether they wish to remain part of the Union or to be an independent country?
Mr Jack
We want to work with the Scottish Government to show the people of Scotland the benefits of being part of the Union and to show that we can work together on delivering on growth deals, freeports and the cost of living crisis, and on delivering the £1.5 billion of extra funding that is coming as a result of the Chancellor’s statement last week. We want to show the people of Scotland the benefits of being part of the United Kingdom. Looking at the numbers, there seems to be an in-built majority for Unionist parties, so I think the people of Scotland recognise that.
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
The Secretary of State has been struggling to answer the most basic questions from colleagues, so I have a simple question for him. On 13 November 2017, in a debate in Westminster Hall, I asked him if he agreed with the preposterous suggestion of Michael Kelly, the former Lord Provost of Glasgow, that Scotland should not have another independence referendum until every person who voted in the 2014 referendum was dead. In reply, the Secretary of State said that
“if I had my way, we would wait even longer.”—[Official Report, 13 November 2017; Vol. 631, c. 24WH.]
Is that still his position today?
Mr Jack
I will give the same answer that I have always given, which is that we believe a referendum is not the priority for the people of Scotland. We believe Scotland is stronger in the United Kingdom and benefits enormously from the United Kingdom, and that the rest of the United Kingdom benefits enormously from having Scotland in it. From renewables and oil and gas to cultural matters and many other things, Scotland is a very valued member of the United Kingdom, and that remains my position.
Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)
The Secretary of State keeps patronising us about what the priorities of the people of Scotland are. The fact is that the people of Scotland keep voting for the SNP and for an independence referendum as the means to deliver on their priorities. The non-answer that he keeps referring us to is some vague nonsense about reaching consensus. In 2014 we reached consensus precisely because there was pro-independence majority in the Scottish Parliament. Why is that not good enough now? He can dissemble and he can dodge this afternoon, but he cannot do that for the weeks ahead.
Mr Jack
As I have said on many occasions, there is not any clear evidence that a majority of Scots are voting for the SNP—quite the contrary. Less than a third of Scots are voting for the SNP. It is very clear in all polling that less than a third of Scots want a referendum any time soon.
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP)
The Supreme Court has really done us all a favour by answering one legal question but leaving us with a far bigger democratic one. But let us have some facts: 73% of Scots want back into the European Union; 50% plus of Scots want an independent Scotland in the European Union; and 22% of Scots trust the UK Government to act in their interests. Does the Secretary of State accept my point that his blinkered defence of the indefensible democratic deficit will be the UK’s undoing?
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
If the Secretary of State is so convinced that there is a substantial anti-independence majority among today’s people of Scotland, will he agree to publish in its entirety all the polling done at our expense by the Scotland Office? If not, can we assume that the reason the Government are desperate to avoid a referendum is that even their private polling tells them that, this time, the result will be a massive yes?
Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Scotland joining the Union predates the Scotland Act 1998 and it was the 1998 Act that the Supreme Court judged on today. The 1998 Act will not and cannot stop Scotland being an independent country. I am sure that the Secretary of State believes in the right of independence for Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Ukraine, Denmark, Lithuania, Latvia and many others, so does he believe the same for Scotland? If Scotland votes for independence at an election ballot box, will he respect the democracy of that event?
Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP)
In 2018, this House voted to acknowledge the claim of right that Scotland’s people have the right to choose their own destiny. Does the Secretary of State now deny that decision of Parliament?
Mr Jack
The claim of right? We had a Union of the Crowns in 1603 and a Union of the Parliaments in 1707, but they were all a terribly long time ago. We firmly believe that we have a strong partnership that has endured for more than 300 years and has delivered for all parts of the United Kingdom, and that we are better together.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I thank the Secretary of State.
Scottish Independence and the Scottish Economy
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 6 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. I would, by convention, congratulate the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) on securing the debate, but forgive me, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I break with custom on this occasion, for the simple reason that a debate on Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is not a priority for the Scottish people, it is not a priority for Scotland, and it should not be a priority for this House. It is no surprise to me—but it is a great pity none the less—that the SNP has retreated into the only issue it ever cares about. It is a great pity because I and Conservative Members would warmly welcome a serious debate about the Scottish economy.
I believe that this House should be discussing ways to improve Scotland’s economic growth, because our economic growth has lagged behind that of the United Kingdom during the time the SNP has been in power at Holyrood. Why is that, I wonder? How much better might things have been if the SNP had respected the democratic result of the 2014 referendum, and ceased its constant, unwanted demands to re-run that referendum?
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Jack
I fear that the SNP’s constant campaign—its neverendum campaign to leave the United Kingdom—acts like a millstone around the neck of the Scottish economy.
Steven Bonnar
I appreciate the Secretary of State giving way. We often hear that we do not respect the result of the referendum. I joined the SNP one week after the referendum. I was sent here to protect Scotland from Brexit and to fight for Scottish independence. Is that not taking part in the democracy of our country? I was not a member of the SNP then; I joined one week after the referendum, and I was elected to this place to help deliver Scotland’s path to independence. That is democracy.
Mr Jack
That simply is not democracy, because the hon. Member is not respecting the result of the referendum in 2014. As we heard from the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber, there was confusion and, in that referendum, the Scottish National party was proposing that Scotland leave the EU. We have just heard a whole speech on how desperate the SNP is to get back into the EU, yet in 2014 the proposal made was that Scotland would leave—
Angus Brendan MacNeil
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order to suspend proceedings so that the Secretary of State can have a tutorial on how elections and ballot boxes work and how an x is put on a piece of paper?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I am sure that the hon. Member’s leader would not be delighted if I were to suspend proceedings for any reason whatsoever.
Mr Jack
I say to the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil): take the splinter out of your own eye. I am explaining how ballot boxes work. There was a very good, legal referendum in 2014, and it was won by those who wanted to remain in the United Kingdom. It is as simple as that.
I return to the point about the neverendum campaign being a millstone around the neck of the Scottish economy. The last thing that people need is greater uncertainty. The last thing that Scotland needs is the SNP’s continual push for a divisive referendum on leaving the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom Government are working tirelessly to strengthen the Scottish economy.
During the covid pandemic, it was the UK Government who had the ability to support our economy through furlough and business grants, keeping businesses in business and protecting people’s livelihoods. We are now supporting households and businesses facing increased energy costs. The UK Government are also providing the Scottish Government with a record block grant settlement of £41 billion a year over the next three years. In real terms, that is the highest settlement since 1998.
Alex Cunningham
Seeing as I live in England, I may well have scuppered any chances I had of getting my Scottish passport, but the leader of the SNP did not mention education in his speech. Does the Secretary of State believe that may be because we have seen Scotland tumble down the PISA rankings for maths and science as the SNP has neglected the education of the future population of our home country?
Mr Jack
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. It is not just education standards that are falling—there are many problems throughout public services in Scotland, and drug deaths are three times higher than in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is clear that those failings in public services in Scotland happen because the Scottish Government get up every day and go to work with the one objective of breaking up the United Kingdom, not realising that they are a devolved Administration who should be focusing on health, education and crime, doing the proper day job that people voted for them to do. I absolutely agree with him.
Jamie Stone
It is a well-known fact that the Scottish National party loves me to bits. However, I received my second covid vaccination from a British solider in Raigmore Hospital, where the British Army stepped in during the pandemic. The independence argument falls apart when it comes to the defence of the United Kingdom, because there is nothing that Vladimir Putin would like to see more than Scotland breaking away and our defences split in two.
Mr Jack
The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. During the pandemic, in my role as Secretary of State for Scotland I signed many MACA—military aid to civil authorities—requests for Scotland, and our armed services stepped up and did an incredible job of helping us through the process.
In addition to the UK Government support that I mentioned, we are directly investing £2 billion that will be delivered through the city region and growth deals programme, the levelling-up fund and the United Kingdom shared prosperity fund. Those projects are starting to transform communities and create tens of thousands of high-quality new jobs.
Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
The Secretary of State goes on about levelling up and how grateful we in Scotland should be for money that is disbursed from the UK centre at Westminster. Does he actually believe that? Does he not understand that people in Scotland pay taxes here as well as in Scotland and that we are entitled to a share of all those funds?
Mr Jack
All the SNP councils in Scotland are applying for these funds, and they have been welcomed. I remember the leader of Glasgow City Council—an SNP council—saying how pleased she was that the UK Government were delivering those funds directly to local authorities in Scotland. And—guess what?—they are taking that money in its full amount and delivering it to local projects. That is exactly how it should be.
Marion Fellows
I have signed applications for levelling-up funds because my community is as entitled to them as communities in the rest of the UK. We pay our taxes as well, and we do not need to be lectured about taking hand-outs, which is what the Secretary of State is implying.
Mr Jack
That could not be further from the truth. I am not implying that for a minute. It absolutely is fair shares for everyone; we have never disputed that. All I am explaining is that the method of delivery is through local authorities to get project funds directly to local communities.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. Mr MacNeil, you could start an argument in a room on your own. The Secretary of State is not giving way. Please pipe down.
Mr Jack
We are close to announcing two new UK freeports in Scotland, backed by £52 million of investment from the United Kingdom Government. That is a great example of how much more we can achieve when Scotland’s two Governments work together. We know that we can achieve much more by working together. So I repeat my offer to the Scottish Government to come and work with us on transport by improving cross-border links such as the A75 and on agriculture by giving farmers the gene editing technology that they desperately want. Gene editing will make crops more disease and drought-resistant and thereby drive down food prices. They should also work with us on energy, bringing small modular nuclear reactors—yes, you heard it here—to back up our tremendous renewable energy.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Iain Stewart
In talking about the city region and growth deals, the freeports and all the other shared investments, is not the key point that that is real devolution and not central Government—whether here or in Edinburgh—dictating to local areas what they want? It is them deciding their priorities and working with both Governments to deliver on them.
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I thank him for all the work that he did on the subject while he was a Minister in the Scotland Office. He was an absolute powerhouse in working with local authorities and working through all the different deals available. I appreciate everything that he did.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Jack
If I can continue, the North sea transition deal is another thing that shows the UK Government working together with the offshore oil and gas industry to achieve a managed energy transition that leaves no one behind. The deal has the potential to support up to 40,000 jobs and generate up to £16 billion of investment by 2030. We are also supporting 1,700 Scottish jobs through the £3.7 billion Ministry of Defence shipbuilding programme on the Clyde. Those are just a few examples.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State explain how he is working with the Scottish Government to tackle child poverty? The Scottish Government have the Scottish child payment of £25 a week. What more can he do to support children who are living in poverty just now because of the UK Government’s policies?
Mr Jack
Apart from the record settlement of £41 billion over three years, there is additional money—the £37 billion —from the support schemes the Chancellor introduced. That has Barnett money, which goes to the Scottish Government. The wonderful thing about devolution is that the Scottish Government can then decide how they spend that money.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)
Is the Minister able to tell us what percentage of the £8 billion of oil and gas revenue that has gone to the Treasury in the last nine months is being directed to the Scottish Government to prioritise for their own spending? What percentage of that revenue goes to Scotland? The answer is none, isn’t it?
Mr Jack
The answer is that Scotland gets her share of Government spending. Everything goes into one big pot, but we know that spending in Scotland is 26% higher per head than it is per head in England. That is the Union dividend, which I will come on to, of £2,000 per man, woman and child. We have one Treasury and one pot, and Scotland takes a very fair share out of that.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Jack
I am going to make some progress.
I have given some examples of how the UK Government are investing in Scotland. As I said earlier, I would welcome a proper debate about the Scottish economy any day, but this is not a serious debate. It is, I am afraid, just another opportunity, as we have heard from SNP Members, to dust off some of their tired old grievances.
Let me turn to the premise of the motion and let us all consider reality. As the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber will be well aware, the pound has recovered. The Bank of England interventions have been effective and our energy interventions will help to bring down inflation.
Ian Blackford
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. On the day of the referendum, the pound-dollar rate was 1.64. The Government have crashed the pound over the course of the last few years. That is the harsh reality and the Secretary of State might actually recognise that.
Mr Jack
To clarify the record, I was referring to the recent turmoil in the market. [Interruption.] Let me proceed.
This is a challenging economic period internationally and we should not pretend that the UK is the only nation which faces difficult times. The overall economic stability that the UK offers is the best long-term guarantee we have, so the right hon. Member is simply wrong in the motion about the state of the UK economy. He compounds his mistake, because his motion speaks of a land that exists only in his overactive and deeply aggrieved imagination: the so-called failing state of the UK. That will be the United Kingdom which has the sixth-biggest economy in the world, the UK which is a leading partner in NATO, the UK which is at the heart of the G7, and the UK with a permanent seat on the Security Council of the United Nations. [Interruption.] They do not like hearing it.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. Please resume your seats. Come on. Stop it, please. Stop it. We did not have that noise when the leader of the SNP was speaking, so in deference, and in good behaviour, please stop the shouting.
Mr Jack
SNP Members do not like hearing it. Instead of insulting Scots’ intelligence, the SNP might explain what it is doing with Holyrood’s extensive powers in economic development, education and skills, planning and transport to grow the Scottish economy.
I hope that as the debate progresses we will hear something constructive from SNP Members, but I fear ferries will float before we do. Rather than deal with what actually matters to the vast majority of Scots—growing the economy and creating jobs—SNP Members want to talk about the Scottish Government’s “independence papers”.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Jack
I will make some progress.
Those papers have provoked scorn from respected economic experts, and even from high-profile independence campaigners. One prominent nationalist—Mr Deputy Speaker, I apologise in advance for the unparliamentary language—referred to the recent economy paper as “utter pish”. The kindest thing I could do is move on without further mention of those publications, so I will.
I am very clear that we will tackle the challenges we face more effectively as one United Kingdom. Much to the frustration of the SNP, the Scottish Government’s own Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures demonstrate the benefit to people in Scotland of being part of the United Kingdom. As I mentioned earlier, people in Scotland benefit from a Union dividend worth more than £2,000 a year for each man, woman and child.
Mr Perkins
I agree with the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) that in 2014 the pound was at 1.64 against the dollar and that now, because of this Government, it has crashed. However, what does it say to the Secretary of State that even with that, the Scottish independence campaign seeks to reassure the markets by saying it will not go for the Scottish pound, but stick with this crashing economy? What does that say about its confidence in the Scottish pound?
Mr Jack
I would add to the hon. Gentleman’s remarks by saying that as a country shadowing the pound it will not be the lender of last resort—it will have no lender of last resort. It is utterly irresponsible.
As one United Kingdom, we are able to draw on our great shared institutions such as the NHS. We are better able to respond to the nationwide challenges on the cost of living, just as we did in overcoming the pandemic when we offered the covid vaccine to everyone in the UK. The energy price guarantee will save a typical household in Great Britain around £700 this winter. I believe that our collective strength as a family of nations means we are much better able to tackle the big problems.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State give way? [Interruption.]
Stephen Flynn
I thank the Secretary for State for giving way. In the aftermath of his former Prime Minister’s and former Chancellor’s budget, he called on the Scottish Government to implement those tax cuts. Beyond that, the following day he said that he was going to “hold firm” on those tax cuts. Does he regret those comments, and indeed the damage that his Government caused to households in Scotland?
Mr Jack
I make no apology for the fact that I have always been pro low taxes. That remains my position today.
For all that the motion for today’s debate purports to focus on the economy, we should be clear that it is, in reality, about allowing the SNP to talk about the one issue that matters to it: separation and seeking to break up the UK. This is simply not the time to be talking about another independence referendum. We share these islands, and we share a rich, shared history.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
If the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil) carries on moving across the Labour Benches, he will find the door is there. [Laughter.]
Mr Deputy Speaker
It is up to whoever is on their feet who they allow in. For whatever reason, you are not the flavour of the month, Mr MacNeil, and I have to say you are rapidly going down my list as to when you will actually come in.
Mr Jack
Mr Deputy Speaker, I admire the tenacity of the hon. Gentleman. He is obviously very good a playing musical chairs, but I am going to finish.
We share these islands. We share a rich history. Together, we have been able to develop the great institutions we are so proud of, such as the NHS and our armed forces. People in Scotland want their two Governments to be focused on the issues that matter to them: growing our economy, ensuring our energy security, tackling the cost of living and supporting our friends in Ukraine against Russian aggression. Those are the issues that matter to the people of Scotland, not the motion before us today.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alister Jack Excerpts(1 year, 11 months ago)
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Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
Rangers, that great British football club, are in Seville tonight for the Europa league final. I hope that the whole House, including the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), who is an avid Hearts fan, and the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), who is an avid Hibs fan, will join me in wishing them a famous victory.
All areas in Scotland will receive an allocation of UKSPF via a needs-based funding formula. Local leaders are empowered to design their own interventions in line with the levelling up missions. We are determined to boost productivity, pay, jobs and living standards.
Dr Davies
Will my right hon. Friend kindly explain how the allocation of SPF funding in Scotland and across the rest of the UK will help level up those communities more effectively than the previous structural funding?
Mr Jack
The UK shared prosperity fund is a central pillar of our ambitious levelling-up agenda for places across Scotland and provides £212 million of new funding for local investment. Local partners have far greater flexibility than before. They can invest in priority areas and target funds where they are needed. Allocations are being made on a needs-based assessment, including a specifically tailored proportion for rural areas in Scotland.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
Scotland has been short-changed by the loss of EU funding, leaving a 40% reduction in the funding that we would have received from the EU. It is not only the Scottish Government saying that but the Treasury Committee, the House of Lords Constitution Committee and Bloomberg, so there is clearly no levelling up. What steps has the Secretary of State taken to ensure that Scotland’s shortfall in funding is remedied, and remedied fast?
Mr Jack
I seek to correct the hon. Lady: the funding is tapered with UK structural funds. EU structural funds and UK structural funds are tapered. We paid into EU funds, and the EU is still paying into Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, but the advantage of Brexit is that we now have control over that money and can decide how we spend it. The amount of money in total has not been reduced in any way.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
For years, Ministers have assured organisations in receipt of EU structural funding that the UK shared prosperity fund would maintain that funding after Brexit. Finally, the Government published the details of their shared prosperity fund and, for organisations such as the world-leading European Marine Energy Centre based in Orkney, it was a brutal blow. The Government broke their promise. As a result, EMEC, a site that has tested more marine energy devices than any other in the world, now faces closure. What is the Secretary of State doing to ensure that his Cabinet colleagues keep their promise of matching the funding for EMEC and other Interreg projects in Scotland?
Mr Jack
Discussions with EMEC are ongoing between my office, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. We are making progress, but there is further progress to be made. To that end, I am happy to offer a face-to-face meeting with EMEC.
Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
I have regular discussions with Cabinet colleagues and the Ministry of Defence. The integrated review sets out the Government’s ambitions for defence and foreign policy over the next decade. British armed forces personnel in Scotland play a crucial role in defending the whole of the United Kingdom and our allies, and will continue to do so.
Sally-Ann Hart
For centuries, Scotland and the rest of the UK have had a united defence stance and military bond. Will my right hon. Friend outline what assessment his Department has made of the direct and indirect impacts, including economic, that Scotland benefits from as a result of being part of the United Kingdom?
Mr Jack
The benefits are enormous. Scotland plays a crucial role in the defence of the UK and our NATO allies. The UK strategic bases in Scotland, RAF Lossiemouth and the UK’s nuclear deterrent at Faslane, serve to make the whole of the United Kingdom safer. The economic benefits for Scotland as a result of MOD investment are significant. MOD expenditure with industry and commerce in the last year alone totalled almost £2 billion. Defence investment in Scottish shipbuilding will see order books full until the 2030s. Construction is under way to deliver three cutting edge Type 26 frigates at BAE Systems in Govan, five Type 31 frigates at Babcock in Rosyth, and only this week the MOD awarded a £30 million contract to Babcock in Rosyth to maintain the Royal Navy’s two aircraft carriers, securing 300 jobs for the next 10 years.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
The Secretary of State will know that the Scottish Affairs Committee, of which the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart) is an assiduous member, is conducting a series of inquiries into defence in Scotland. One of the things the Committee has found in its almost concluded report on the military landscape in Scotland is that only 2.5% of total military spending is spent on Scottish small and medium-sized enterprises. What is the Secretary of State doing to ensure that situation is rectified?
Mr Jack
The hon. Gentleman mentions SMEs. The bulk of the spending—literally billions of pounds, worth thousands of jobs—is with British Aerospace and Babcock.
Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)
The Secretary of State mentioned the awarding of the contract to Rosyth dockyard, securing 300 jobs in Rosyth, and the frigates and destroyers being built on the Clyde. Does he not agree with me that it is good that at least one of Scotland’s Governments can actually build ships that float?
Mr Jack
I think my hon. Friend refers to ferries, and he is absolutely right. I think the ferries float. They just cannot seem to finish them or make them work, or find anything that gets close to resembling a ferry.
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
During the 2014 independence referendum, the Secretary of State’s Government promised that 12,500 armed forces personnel would be based in Scotland. The current figure is more than 25% below that 2014 promise. With the downward pressure on the armed forces across the board, when will his Government admit that they will never actually meet that target?
Mr Jack
Recruitment remains healthy for young Scots, both as regulars and reservists. I am sure the new recruits in Scotland are absolutely buoyed by the First Minister’s new love of the nuclear alliance that is NATO.
Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con)
Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The UK Government are carefully considering the recommendations set out in Sir Peter Hendy’s Union connectivity review. My hon. Friend Baroness Vere, the Minister responsible for Union connectivity, has discussed the UCR recommendations with Graeme Dey MSP, the former Scottish Government Transport Minister. Sadly, Mr Dey has since stepped down for health reasons. In February, we first requested a meeting with his replacement, Jenny Gilruth. We hope to meet Ms Gilruth as soon as her busy diary allows.
Robin Millar
It is regrettable that the Scottish Government refuse to engage with the UK connectivity review. It is also notable that serious concerns remain, even now, about the award management and delivery of the Ferguson ferries contract. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Scottish Government need to up their game in connecting UK residents?
Mr Jack
Yes, and to clarify my hon. Friend’s point, the Scottish Government did refuse to engage with the Union connectivity review, in the form of Cabinet Secretary Michael Matheson telling his civil servants not to communicate with Sir Peter Hendy, so my hon. Friend makes a very good point. Scottish National party MPs are only too keen to tell us when the Scottish Government are doing well, how great they are and why the UK Government should follow suit. However, when it comes to ferry contracts, the SNP has shown startling incompetence: they are five years late in delivery and £150 million over budget. Despite the Scottish Government’s incompetence, this Government stand ready to work with them on improving transport links across the United Kingdom, because we believe that that is best for all.
Katherine Fletcher
I have taken the west coast main line a couple of times from Preston to Glasgow, which is a wonderful city. It hosted the busy COP26, with its wonderful work, and there is the space industry in Glasgow. However, the train line is absolutely vital. As part of my right hon. Friend’s Union connectivity review, will he make sure that travel from Preston and the other connecting stations to Glasgow is easier and better?
Mr Jack
High Speed 2 will transform rail travel in this country. It will build opportunity and boost the economy through national regeneration and the widespread creation of jobs. HS2 will go to Preston from the moment that it opens for operation. That means that facilities at Preston will be upgraded, including a new platform that will also see a direct HS2 service from Birmingham, increasing the frequency of connections to the UK’s major economic centres.
Rachael Maskell
Turning to the east, better connectivity strengthens the economy and strengthens opportunity—Labour’s twin ambitions for Scotland. With York having such a pivotal role on the whole network, what discussions is the Secretary of State having about investing in rail north of York to ensure that connectivity right into the heart of Scotland?
Mr Jack
The hon. Lady and I share exactly the same ambition: faster rail to York, which will mean faster rail to Scotland.
Rob Roberts
Having spent a wonderful weekend in Glasgow and visited the wonderful Rowallan castle in the constituency of the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) for a wedding, I completely agree that the scenery and tourism in Scotland should be enjoyed by everybody in the United Kingdom. Can my right hon. Friend confirm what discussions he has had with Ministers in the Department for Transport about enacting all the recommendations in Sir Peter’s review? Can he confirm a timeline for when that might be likely to occur?
Mr Jack
The Prime Minister has welcomed—indeed, intends to accept—the proposals for the creation of UKNET, a strategic transport network spanning the entire United Kingdom. The funding that the UK Government have set aside will put us on the right path to developing the best infrastructure investment options to strengthen our main transport arteries for people and businesses across the United Kingdom.
Dehenna Davison
The A68 is one of the main arteries for traffic crossing the border of England and Scotland, carrying thousands of vehicles each way every day. Many pass through the small village of Toft Hill in my constituency. In 2021, the Government finally announced that they would be providing funding to finally complete the much-awaited Toft Hill bypass—[Interruption]—improving the safety of roads for all users, including those travelling into England from Scotland. Does the Secretary of State agree that that demonstrates the Government’s commitment to bringing the nations of our UK together by ensuring that the infrastructure works not only for both nations, but for local communities?
Mr Jack
I notice that my hon. Friend was being rudely interrupted, but what I think I picked up was that the A68 from Darlington to Midlothian is of great importance to cross-border transport connectivity between England and Scotland. I extend my congratulations to Durham County Council for its success in the levelling-up fund. The rerouting of the A68 at Toft Hill will create a new 1.6 km bypass away from the village centre, which I know my hon. Friend has been campaigning tirelessly for.
Mark Jenkinson
Will my right hon. Friend set out his assessment of the impact of devolution on Union connectivity?
Mr Jack
Sir Peter Hendy noted in his final report that
“devolution has been good for transport”.
However, he identified that it has none the less led to
“a gap in UK-wide strategic transport planning that has resulted in cross-border schemes…seeming to be a lower priority than other schemes which may provide greater local benefit.”
Through the implementation of UKNET, we are committed to forging and strengthening transport bonds and creating a better-connected United Kingdom.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
I do not think the Scottish Government need to take lessons in ferries from a Government who awarded a massive ferry contract to a company that did not even have a boat, but we will leave that to one side just now.
The Secretary of State was kind enough to mention my constituency colleague Jenny Gilruth. Jenny Gilruth has something in common with every single constituency MSP ever elected in Fife: she is not a Conservative. The Conservatives have never won a Scottish Parliament seat in Fife, and its last Conservative Member in this place lost his seat in 1987. In wards entirely within my constituency, the Conservatives managed one councillor, compared with eight from the SNP. Given the very clear expression of anti-Tory sentiment in Fife through the years, what makes the Secretary of State think that he knows Fife’s transport needs better than our local constituency MSP?
Mr Jack
The hon. Gentleman misses the very important point that Ms Gilruth is the Transport Minister. We want Scotland’s two Governments to work together, and we believe that if the Scottish Government engage with us, we can work on ways to improve the highways for everyone.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
I am here today in the House of Commons, but my heart is in Seville. I thank the Secretary of State for his contribution and wish Rangers, the most successful football club in the world, every success tonight.
In conjunction with his Cabinet colleagues, will he ensure that the connectivity review and levelling up lead to benefits right across the entirety of the United Kingdom?
Mr Jack
That is absolutely our intention. I visited Belfast recently to have discussions about connectivity and how we can upgrade the A77 and the A75, and we now want to work with the Scottish Government to achieve that and many other improvements.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
The Government’s Legislative Programme (Scotland) 2022-23)
Alister Jack Excerpts(2 years ago)
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The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The legislative programme for the third Session was outlined at the State Opening of Parliament on Tuesday 10 May. This statement provides a summary of the programme and its application to Scotland. It does not include draft Bills, Law Commission Bills or Finance Bills.
The UK Government will continue to deliver for people and businesses across Scotland, as part of a strong United Kingdom. The Government’s legislative programme for this Session will boost economic growth across the UK to address the cost of living, helping to create the conditions for more people to have high-wage, high-skill jobs. We will continue to build our recovery from the pandemic, and work to make our country safer.
When we work collaboratively as one United Kingdom we are safer, stronger, more prosperous, and better able to tackle our shared challenges. That is why the UK Government announced the first allocations for many of our UK-wide growth funds, including more than £171 million for eight projects to improve infrastructure in Scotland as part of the levelling up fund and over £1 million for six projects through the community ownership fund to save community assets at risk of being lost, such as the Old Forge pub in the Highlands. In addition, we announced that 56 projects in Scotland would receive a share of more than £18 million through the community renewal fund. The Glasgow city region will become one of three new “innovation accelerators” which will drive-up prosperity and opportunity for local people and backed by a share of £100 million of UK Government funding. A new, £150 million British Business Bank fund in Scotland will support firms, and the Scottish Government are being provided with £1.9 billion for farmers and land managers and £42.2 million to support fisheries over the current spending review period.
To spread economic opportunities more evenly across the UK, Scotland will benefit from the UK shared prosperity fund, with over £212 million provided to level up communities across Scotland over this spending review period. Amongst other things, this includes the multiply programme which will give thousands of adults across the UK the opportunity to develop functional numeracy skills. The new £1.4 billion global Britain investment fund will spread economic opportunities more evenly across the UK by supporting investment in industries including life sciences, offshore wind, and manufacturing.
We are bringing two green freeports to Scotland to support economic growth. These will play a key role in supporting the regeneration of communities, bringing jobs and prosperity. They will also turbo-charge our commitments on net zero and support work to level-up the whole of the United Kingdom.
This is on top of the UK Government’s investment of almost £1.5 billion in Scottish city and region growth deals. Funding was accelerated in seven of these in Scotland to drive forward local economic priorities in Tay cities, Borderlands, Moray and the Scottish Islands (announced in the 2020 spending review), and Ayrshire, Argyll and Bute, and Falkirk (announced in the March 2021 Budget).
The Government are committed to protecting and promoting the strengths of the United Kingdom, building on hundreds of years of partnership between the different parts of our country, the most successful political and economic union in history and the foundation upon which all our businesses and citizens are able to thrive and prosper.
The following Bills will extend and apply to Scotland (either in full or in part):
• Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill
• Bill of Rights
• Boycotts, Divestments, and Sanctions Bill
• Brexit Freedoms Bill
• Data Reform Bill
• Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill
• Energy Security Bill
• Financial Services and Markets Bill
• Harbours (Seafarers’ Remuneration) Bill
• High Speed Rail (Crewe-Manchester) Bill
• Infrastructure Bank Bill
• Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill
• Media Bill
• Modern Slavery Bill
• National Security Bill
• Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill
• Online Safety Bill
• Procurement Bill
• Products Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Bill
• Social Housing Regulation Bill
• Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill
• Trade (Australia and New Zealand) Bill
• Transport Bill
The Government continue to deliver for Scotland and will continue to work constructively with the Scottish Government to secure the legislative consent of the Scottish Parliament where appropriate.
[HCWS11]
Oral Answers to Questions
Alister Jack Excerpts(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The Westminster Parliament can and does legislate for all of the UK, and we have always sought to do so with the consent of the relevant devolved Parliament when we legislate in areas of devolved competence. The Scottish Parliament has passed legislative consent motions for seven Bills in this Session where the legislative consent motion process has been engaged. However, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the SNP Scottish Government made it quite clear that they would not grant LCMs for Brexit-related Bills. We understand their position even if we do not agree with it, but following Brexit, it is this Government’s duty to legislate sensibly for the whole of the United Kingdom, which has involved legislating without consent on a small number of occasions and may well mean doing so again in the future.
Patrick Grady
That small number of occasions includes the Elections Bill, the Professional Qualifications Bill, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and the withdrawal agreement itself. All were rejected by Scotland’s Parliament but are taking effect anyway because this Tory Government never really believed in devolution in the first place. So is this actually the end of the Sewel convention, and is ignoring the Scottish Parliament the new normal?
Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)
This morning, as ever, we have heard a lot from the SNP about respecting the Scottish Parliament and ignoring the Scottish Parliament. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is the height of disrespect for the permanent secretary of the Scottish Government, who remains accountable to the UK Cabinet Secretary and draws a six-figure salary, to refuse to appear in front of a Committee of the Scottish Parliament without giving a reasonable excuse as to why?
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
I am sure that the Secretary of State would like to join me in welcoming Dr Riches, who is watching our proceedings today. She is from the Royal Society and she is shadowing me as part of a pairing scheme. She is very welcome.
Holyrood unanimously approved a legislative consent motion for the Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill, which included an amendment from my Labour colleague Michael Marra urging the UK Government to remove a provision that would require ownership of land only from 2014 to be registered in Scotland registered, when the requirement is from 2004 in England. So if someone has laundered Putin’s dirty money in Scotland before 2014, they are in the clear. For example, Perthshire’s Aberuchill castle was bought by the Russian steel magnate Vladimir Lisin for over £5 million in 2005. He has been on the Treasury’s watchlist since 2008, but he is not covered. Vladimir Romanov, who bought Heart of Midlothian football club along with swathes of central Edinburgh, is allegedly hiding in Moscow under the protection of Putin. He would not be covered either, but both of them would be covered in England. Does the Secretary of State think that is right? What is he doing to implement the LCM amendment to sort this smugglers’ cove in Scotland?
Mr Jack
I join the hon. Gentleman in welcoming the Royal Society pairs who are in London. I also thank the Labour party for its support for the Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill—it is hugely appreciated.
On the registration of property, England and Wales changed the rules for transparency of ownership in 1999, but in Scotland they were changed in 2014. The problem we have is that, if we go back before 2014, there is a risk that third parties who did not know they were engaging with an overseas entity that was non-compliant could be hurt. That hurt would be for something they were engaged in unwillingly, and we must protect those third parties. That is the reason why we have not gone back before 2014, and the Joint Committee on the Draft Registration of Overseas Entities Bill, which reviewed the draft legislation, agreed with that, but I have every sympathy with the points the hon. Gentleman makes.
Ian Murray
I am sure that anomaly could be sorted to ensure that we do not hurt unsuspecting third parties. One of the most important ways to clamp down on illicit Russian money and influence in the UK is through the reform of Companies House. Despite Labour’s attempts, the Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Act 2022 does not contain such reforms, but they are important, because Scottish limited partnerships, which were set up for Scottish farmers in the 19th century, remain an outdated and opaque vehicle of ownership that is used in the 21st century to obscure beneficial ownership. There is widespread support for that change, but the Government refused to act. Will the Secretary of State commit now to reforming Scottish limited partnerships and wider company law so that we can see who actually owns the companies and shut down those laundering loopholes?
Mr Jack
The hon. Gentleman will also know that the UK Government clamped down on the abuse of Scottish limited partnerships in 2018, but we want to do more, and early in the next Session of Parliament there will be an updated economic crime Bill and further measures will be taken. He is absolutely right that those partnerships were being used by foreign individuals and companies to launder money. We know that. The reforms in 2018 increased transparency and put more stringent checks on the individuals forming those companies, but, hopefully with the support of the Labour party, we will tackle them in the next Session of Parliament.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
The Scottish National party likes to present itself as the defender of devolution, but does my right hon. Friend agree that there is an inherent contradiction between that position and its desire to rip our United Kingdom completely apart? Does he also agree that it is the UK Government who are promoting devolution, including the transfer of powers regained from the European Union?
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Is it not the truth that Scotland has never experienced such sustained attacks on our democracy and our democratic institutions? As we have heard, legislative consent is now almost dead and buried, a feature of history, with Westminster now legislating in devolved areas. What is next in the Secretary of State’s sights?
Mr Jack
There are various Bills that come through that are Brexit related: the Professional Qualifications Bill, which is linked to trade Bills, a reserved matter, would be one of them, and the Subsidy Control Bill would be another where we will not get an LCM. We know that, but we need to bring in subsidy controls, because state aid has reverted to the United Kingdom from the EU and it is a UK matter.
Pete Wishart
The Secretary of State does not get an LCM because Scotland’s directly elected representatives do not agree with it and do not want it. That is why LCMs are withheld. Everybody can see what is going on, and everybody can see his attempts to undermine our democracy. Is it not the case that his muscular Unionism has been a disaster for Scottish democracy? In fact, it has even been a disaster for the Scottish Conservatives, who may or may not now have confidence in their Prime Minister. Is it not also the case that the Scottish people have no confidence in this Government to defend our parliamentary institutions?
Mr Jack
Absolutely not. We do the right things for Scotland. On the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, we brought the Bill forward without an LCM to protect Scotland’s trade with the rest of the United Kingdom. The two principles that underpin it are mutual recognition and non-discrimination. That is because 60% of Scotland’s trade is with the rest of the UK and a lot of jobs rely on it.
Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The Government’s net zero strategy outlines a comprehensive set of measures to transition to a green and sustainable future. This will support hundreds of thousands of well-paid jobs and leverage up to £90 billion of private investment by 2030 across the entire United Kingdom, including Scotland. All previously licensed fields, such as Cambo, are accounted for in projected production and estimated emissions. We are confident that they can be developed, even as we seek to achieve our commitment to net zero by 2050.
Dean Russell
Yesterday, I met my “Dean’s Green Team” in Watford to talk about initiatives around making sure that the economy is greener and having a better environment. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the net zero strategy is even more important for energy security and that we are stronger as a Union when we work together on that?
Mr Jack
I agree with my hon. Friend. I know he is a great champion of net zero policies. As the Prime Minister set out earlier this week, now more than ever what the UK needs is a balanced approach to energy. Both the North sea and renewables can help guarantee a secure energy supply for households and businesses without relying on foreign imports, and it is greatly to be regretted that we cannot agree a UK-wide position on these issues, because by opposing the development of new oil and gas fields, the Scottish National party and the Greens risk driving jobs and investment elsewhere. However, I say to those working in the industry that fortunately for them, oil and gas is a matter reserved to the Westminster Government.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
Our journey to net zero is critical not only to saving the planet, but to weaning us off any reliance on Russian gas. ScotWind, the largest offshore wind project in the world, has huge potential, but we must also live up to our values and ensure that Scotland’s wind is not being used to power Putin’s war. Will the Secretary of State ask Scottish Ministers to conduct an audit of ScotWind to guarantee that no ill-gotten Russian money is part of its financing and ensure that all successful contracts for difference are free of Russian involvement?
Mr Jack
As the hon. Lady will know—she makes a fair point—ScotWind is a matter for the Scottish Government, but I am sure they will be doing all they can to ensure that no Russian money is financing any of the successful contracts. On contracts for difference, the UK Government are working to ensure that no Russian money is underpinning UK infrastructure.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
You have to admire the brass neck of the Secretary of State, because it is his Government who have failed to deliver carbon capture and underground storage in Scotland, it is his Government who have failed to match fund the Scottish Government’s just transition fund, and it is his Government who oversee Scotland paying the highest electricity transmission charges in the entirety of Europe. When will he stop doffing his cap to Westminster and stand up for Scotland’s renewable future?
Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) (Con)
Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
I have regular discussions with my Cabinet colleagues on all relevant UK Government policies that support economic growth in Scotland. The landmark agreement between Scotland’s two Governments to establish two new UK freeports will support the regeneration of communities in Scotland.
Dr Luke Evans
Freeports are a real opportunity to bolster the UK’s economy. In the east midlands we have a freeport that is bringing 60,000 jobs and green investment. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that will be the case if two freeports go ahead in Scotland? Does that not demonstrate levelling up across the UK and our Union?
Mr Jack
Everyone who cares about Scotland’s prosperity will welcome the additional UK Government investment of up to £52 million, on top of the massive tax and customs benefits to the Scottish economy, drawing in more private sector investment. I would have thought that all parties in Scotland would have welcomed the opportunities and jobs that will flow from the new freeports in Scotland. However, sadly the Scottish Greens, the SNP Government’s coalition partners, oppose them, which shows how irresponsible it was for Mrs Sturgeon to invite a party so opposed to economic growth to join her in government.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
Freeports around the world have long had an association with tax dodging and economic crime. In light of the Government’s responsibility to bring forward an economic crime Bill No. 2, will they review their freeports policy?
Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The UK Government remain committed to our domestic offshore oil and gas sector, which continues to keep us warm, fuel our vehicles and strengthen our security of supply. At present, 75% of the UK’s primary energy demand comes from oil and gas and it is therefore an essential part of our energy mix.
Jacob Young
The oil and gas industry in Scotland, in Teesside and around the country provides thousands of people with good quality, well-paid jobs, while keeping the lights on and keeping Britain moving. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that it is vital that we encourage North sea oil and gas exploration to ensure we have energy security and independence in this time of uncertainty, and that these sectors will help us to decarbonise in the long run and achieve our net zero goals through projects such as Net Zero Teesside?
Mr Jack
I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of our domestic oil and gas sector. The North sea transition deal is a global exemplar of how a Government can work with the offshore oil and gas industry to achieve a managed energy transition that leaves no one behind. This Government support oil and gas, and the 100,000 jobs linked to that industry in Scotland, but we also support the transition, rather than the extinction, of that industry.
Oral Answers to Questions
Alister Jack Excerpts(2 years, 3 months ago)
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Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
Stirling has today submitted its bid to be the UK’s city of culture 2025. Winning the bid would bring investment and international attention to the town, and I am sure that every Scottish MP will join me in wishing Stirling the very best for the competition. As I am sure you are aware, Mr Speaker, today—2 February—is also Groundhog day. Of course, in Scotland, every day feels like Groundhog day with the SNP’s incessant calls for another independence referendum.
Turning to question No. 1, the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), and I have regular discussions with Cabinet colleagues about improving cross-border connectivity. The UK Government are currently considering the recommendations from the Union connectivity review and a formal response will be published shortly.
Felicity Buchan
Does my right hon. Friend share my disappointment that the Scottish Government refused to engage with the Union connectivity review, and does he share my hope that these party political games will stop and that the Scottish Government will work with the UK Government to improve transport links for the people of Scotland, such as vital improvements to the A1 and the construction of the Borders railway to Carlisle?
Mr Jack
I do share the disappointment that the Scottish Government did not engage in the Union connectivity review. In fact, the Cabinet Secretary for transport, Michael Matheson, instructed his civil servants not to engage with Sir Peter Hendy, the author of the review. But the UK Government have invited the Scottish Government to work closely in partnership to consider the recommendations and identify solutions that work best for all people in the United Kingdom.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
There is no doubt that the UK Government speak a lot about improving connectivity with Scotland, but what is the Secretary of State specifically doing to improve connectivity between the UK Conservative Cabinet and what they refer to as the political lightweights of the Scottish Conservative party?
Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)
Rail links between England and Scotland are crucial in promoting regional interconnectivity not just to London, but to premier resorts such as mine of Southport. Would my right hon. Friend commit to meeting me so we can discuss putting the link back in through the Burscough curves to connect Southport better with Scotland?
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
With the pandemic leading to more and more people looking to holiday in the UK, what discussions—notwithstanding the comments about the refusal of the Scottish Government—has the Secretary of State endeavoured to have with the Scottish Government about harnessing that new-found demand and supporting important transport hubs such as Edinburgh airport and Haymarket station in my constituency to facilitate improved connectivity?
Mr Jack
As the hon. Lady will know, connectivity is important. It is not just about air; it is also about rail and road. We are very keen to improve connectivity because we realise that that leads to economic growth and improves people’s livelihoods. We are engaging with the Scottish Government in a spirit of good will with a view to improving connectivity for all parts of the United Kingdom.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
This Government are committed to upholding and strengthening the United Kingdom. My Department works closely with our partners across Government and with Scottish stakeholders. This Government are delivering record investment in Scotland and are ensuring that the many benefits of the Union are shared across the United Kingdom.
Stephen Kinnock
The Leader of the House recently described the leader of the Scottish Conservatives as “a lightweight figure”. Does the Secretary of State believe that that comment helped to strengthen the Union?
Mr Jack
I have made my position very clear: I do not think that Douglas Ross—[Interruption.] Well, I made it very clear in the Scottish media, which hon. Members may not have noticed, but that is fair enough. He is the leader of the Scottish Conservatives and was put there by the membership, and we are a constitutionally devolved organisation. He is doing a very good job and holds Nicola Sturgeon to account, and he has my full backing.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
On the Union, this Government are committed to delivering freeports across the United Kingdom, including at least one in Wales. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the creation of at least one freeport in Scotland will result in investment and thousands of jobs and demonstrates why our Union is so effective at delivering for our communities?
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
The Sue Gray report released on Monday was utterly damning about the Prime Minister’s conduct, yet the Secretary of State continues to back him against the wishes of his own Scottish Conservative leader, who I notice is not in the Chamber for Scottish questions. We now know that the Metropolitan police are investigating no fewer than 12 incidents in Downing Street, with more allegations every day. It is little wonder then that a recent poll found that the Prime Minister is as unpopular in Scotland as Alex Salmond. Does the Secretary of State think that the Prime Minister, in refusing to do the decent thing and resign, is good for the Union or helps those who want to break it up?
Ian Murray
What is Groundhog day, Mr Speaker, is the Secretary of State’s defence of this broken Prime Minister.
Tomorrow, the Bank of England is projected to raise interest rates, and inflation is running at a 30-year high. There will be much anxiety in Scottish households that Ofgem will announce the raising of the energy price cap, leading to a massive hike in bills. Last night, my colleagues and I voted to give every single Scottish household support towards the cost of their spiralling energy bills. Under Labour’s fully costed plans, we would save every Scottish household £200 and save £600 for over 800,000 Scottish households hardest hit by the cost of living crisis. That is proper action on this crisis for those both on and off the grid, like many thousands in the Secretary of State’s constituency. Given that the SNP did not back these plans in the vote last night either, why are Scotland’s two Governments refusing to take any action whatsoever to help Scots with spiralling energy costs?
Mr Jack
The UK Government are taking action. The energy price cap is being maintained and will be renegotiated—that is ongoing work for the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. We are providing a £140 rebate on energy bills for 2.2 million households with the lowest incomes, and we have the £300 winter fuel payment for pensioners.
Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
The strength of any Union rests upon the confidence people have in those who are running things. I know that I disagree with the Minister’s political judgment, so let me appeal to his business judgment. Hypothetically, if he were handed evidence that the man running his company had been incompetent and dishonest, and was subject to a police investigation, bringing the entire company into disrepute, would he let him carry on in the role, or would he expect him to step back?
Mr Jack
As has been said many times at this Dispatch Box, the Prime Minister is very sorry for what happened—he has apologised. He has said that if he could have done things differently, with hindsight, he would have done. It is also the case that no one has said that he is the subject of a police investigation. The police are looking into the events that have been passed on to them by Sue Gray, and we will wait for the outcome of that inquiry.
Mhairi Black
I find it quite incredible. Many of the public believe that this Prime Minister has a long history of racism, homophobia and misogyny. He has lost numerous jobs due to his level of dishonesty. He has presided over 150,000 deaths and the loss of nearly £5 billion of public money to fraudsters. Eighty per cent. of people in Scotland want him to resign, and the leader of the Scottish Tories wants him to resign. Let me ask the Minister this: as Scotland’s only representative in Cabinet, what would it take for him to ask for the Prime Minister’s resignation?
Mr Jack
The Prime Minister is doing a fantastic job. He is focusing on the things that matter: delivering on the recovery from this pandemic, the vaccine programme that he backed early on, the booster programme that he led before Christmas, trade deals that will improve outcomes for Scottish food and drink, and many other things. He is a very good leader. The hon. Lady is absolutely prejudging the outcome of the police inquiry.
Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)
Following the reference to confidence by the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black), I welcome the publication of the levelling-up White Paper, and the Government’s commitment to decentralising the UK shared prosperity fund to local areas in Scotland and Wales. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is an example of confidence in local decision-making, of real devolution and of good Union working?
Mr Jack
My hon. Friend is absolutely right—I know that he is a great champion of the Union. The levelling-up paper, which will be launched today, will contain a lot of initiatives and show that we are using structural funds to practise real devolution by giving that money directly to local authorities.
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
The UK Government remain focused on the issues that really matter to people in Scotland, including recovery from the pandemic. My Department continues to work closely with both the Scottish Government and UK Government Departments on the ongoing implementation of the Scotland Act 2016.
Margaret Ferrier
Yesterday, Holyrood backed a motion rejecting voter ID measures in the Elections Bill because they would disenfranchise Scottish voters. That is an indication of the strength of feeling for people across Scotland, and in my constituency, that the UK Government are not giving them due consideration through the legislative process. Can the Secretary of State confirm what plans the Government have to extend Holyrood’s legislative powers?
Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)
Suzanne Webb (Stourbridge) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
Eight projects in Scotland have received a share of more than £170 million from round 1 of the levelling-up fund. Those projects will create new jobs, boost training, grow productivity and deliver tremendous economic benefit to Scotland.
Suzanne Webb
With all the news on the levelling-up White Paper today, will my right hon. Friend update the House on progress towards the fund’s second round? There will be as many bidders in Scotland as there will be in my constituency, where we are keen to move forward with a bid to regenerate Lye.
Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)
I feel for the Secretary of State having to come to the Dispatch Box to defend his Government’s appalling record on spending for the devolved nations. Their broken promises on fully replacing EU funds look to set Wales back more than £1 billion over the next few years. Will he confirm exactly how the Government plan on plugging that gap? The shared prosperity fund will see all the devolved nations lose out on vital funding and is simply not good enough.
Mr Jack
To be absolutely clear, regarding funding to the devolved Administrations, the first comment I would make to the hon. Lady is that the settlement for Scotland this year of £41.6 billion is an increase of £4 billion and is the highest settlement that the Scottish Government have received since 1998, so since devolution began. Regarding the UK shared prosperity fund, the European regional development fund and the European social fund are absolutely being replaced with no reduction whatever, as per our manifesto commitment.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend inform the House of what engagement he has had—or other UK Departments have had—with the Scottish Government and, in particular, with local authorities in Scotland to ensure that levelling up is truly a levelling-up exercise across the whole of the United Kingdom?
Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alister Jack)
My office and I have regular discussions with the Ministry of Defence on all matters relating to defence in Scotland, including defence investment with industry and commerce in Scotland, which totalled almost £2 billion in 2020-21.
Ben Everitt
Scotland is home to the Royal Navy Submarine Service, including our essential independent nuclear deterrent, which protects the whole of the UK. As President Putin continues to escalate his military posture and the aggression on the Ukrainian border—let us be clear that it is President Putin escalating this and not the Russian people—does my right hon. Friend agree that our commitment to defence investment in Scotland, including in Trident, is important, indeed vital, to Scotland’s security as part of the UK and as part of NATO? [Interruption.]
Mr Jack
Mr Speaker, you will not be surprised to hear that I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The UK’s independent nuclear deterrent, which is Trident, based at the HM Naval Base Clyde, exists to deter the most extreme threats not only to the United Kingdom but to our NATO allies. Our nuclear deterrent is the ultimate assurance against current and future threats and remains essential for as long as the global security situation demands.