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Live Debate
Commons Chamber
Commons Chamber
Wednesday 26th March 2025
(began 1 month ago)
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This debate has concluded
11:34
Oral questions: Science, Innovation and Technology
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Order. Order. Order. Order. Order. We Order. Order. We start Order. Order. We start with
11:34
Q1. What steps he is taking to shift care from major hospitals into community hospitals. (903374)
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questions to the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology.
11:35
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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Number one Mr Speaker.
the honourable ladies work as chair of the Women and Equalities Committee. She knows full well the
importance of this area. She will know the government is pledged to halve violence against women and
girls over the course of a decade. It is one of our missions in government. Ofcom has now published
its draft guidance and I expect this good work, which is a good start, I expect them to be implementing this
in full in the months and years ahead.
ahead.
11:35
Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)
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Like many we see an advert for AI
apps which are some of the most downloaded apps across the world. Targeted directly at teenagers,
these adverts boast about viability to create AI videos of nonconsensual acts between real people without
their knowledge. We know that these tools disproportionately hurt women
and young people. What steps is the myth that taking to protect women, girls, and young boys for this
deeply malicious use of Artificial Intelligence? Would he take action against AI companies that promote these features?
11:36
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I am grateful for her question. She raises an important point, one
that was tackled in a manifesto for a promise of change for the country.
It is one that we are now delivering in government. We will bring forward amendments in the Data Bill. We are
working closely with Baroness Owen to make sure that these are effective. We expect these issues to
be dealt with, the creation of deep fakes for nonconsensual deep fakes
will become illegal and they will be tackled into the future.
11:36
Josh Babarinde MP (Eastbourne, Liberal Democrat)
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Technology is a significant enabler of trafficking which has
affected many women in my constituency. The incredible social
enterprise which supports women victims and survivors of trafficking through the art of baking. Will the
Secretary of State jointly in congratulating the bakehouse and
their founder on their work and on being the inaugural co-chair of the
new domestic abuse network in Eastbourne trying to reduce violence against women and girls?
11:37
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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Can I praise the work of the
charity mentioned? Can I also praise him for the interview he gave at the weekend on this subject that was
very touching indeed. The experiences that have been tackled
and that he raised in his own interview having tackled by the government.
11:37
Chi Onwurah MP (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West, Labour)
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I applaud the government's commitment to halve violence against
women and girls over a decade, even as it involves the science and
technology inquiry inquiry into harmful social media. And how it can
drive the adoption of misogynist and extremist views amongst young men and a, as powerfully illustrated in
the series "Adolescence. " Does Ofcom give the powers to address
these harms before they get to the threshold of illegal? And if so how?
11:38
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I thank the honourable lady for
the work she is doing on behalf of her Select Committee. I'm grateful
for the national debate that has been sparked by the program "Adolescent ". It is important we
"Adolescent ". It is important we
act in these areas. The powers that came in last week to take down illegal content and the powers coming in later this year in June
that will mean that all content on those publishing content must make sure it is age appropriate.
This will be a step forward. I'm watching
closely to see what the impact of these powers will be. I will act accordingly if they are not strong enough.
11:38
Graham Leadbitter MP (Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey, Scottish National Party)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Significant
concerns were raised in the recent Westminster Hall debates on the
implementation of the Online Safety Act. Will the Minister take urgent
steps to better categorise online platforms to protect women and girls online?
11:39
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I can assure the honourable Member that whatever the size of the
organisation, whatever the category an organisational platform as in, the onus on them to remove illegal
content and to act with the new powers coming later this year remains intact and the will act and
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I expect Ofcom to use those powers as assertively as needed to make sure people are protected in our country. Shadow Minister.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Shadow Minister. Tragically data and its processing are causing grave risks
processing are causing grave risks to women and girls. The Sullivan
11:39
Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
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report exposed failings in the use of biological sex data often replacing it with gender identity. It highlighted the risk this poses
to the safe delivery of health services, policing, and security. The Health Secretary has already
shown leadership on this issue but to date the Secretary of State has remained silent. Went to the first
have sight of the Sullivan report? When does he depend to act on it?
Talk about Talk about
11:40
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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He is right to say the government is acting on it. I have contacted every government department on the back of that important review to
make sure every government department is aware of the review and some of the content and the weight is relevant to different
government departments. I will be meeting with the author in the coming days and weeks to make sure that she is satisfied with the
action this government is taking.
11:40
Q2. What assessment his Department has made of the adequacy of access to NHS dental services. (903375)
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Question number two.
11:40
Feryal Clark MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Enfield North, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. We work closely with the Department of
Health and Social Care to support research into this terrible disease.
Research invested £10 million in 2023/24 for research into motor
neurone disease. And a key role is played in funding the underpinning
research. Since 2022, the Medical Research Council and the National
Institute for Health and Care Research have awarded £2.8 million
to MME projects led by Scottish research.
11:41
Frank McNally MP (Coatbridge and Bellshill, Labour)
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My honourable friend will know of
the important work of MMD
campaigners including my constituents, Mark Sommerville, seeking greater investment from the
government into MMD research. And further plans for R&D investment
will be outlined after the spending review in June can my honourable friend give some reassurance to
those and their families for whom time matters so much, the department is giving consideration to boosting
investment into MMD research working with key partners to accelerate new
treatments? treatments?
11:42
Feryal Clark MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Enfield North, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. Can I pay tribute to my honourable friend for
raising the work of Mark Sommerville's foundation in this important area. Government funders
are investing in MMD research to accelerate progress in the field. As
one example, through UKRI and the
National into healthcare research, government is investing £6 million
for the MME transitional accelerator led by UK debentures platform. The aim is to accelerate the development
of treatment for MMD. of treatment for MMD.
11:42
Rt Hon Kit Malthouse MP (North West Hampshire, Conservative)
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Thank you. It is good to hear there is continuing investment in looking for therapies and cures to deal with this horrific disease.
However, even if these therapies do emerge, one of the frustrations in
getting it into patient may be the inability of scientists to obtain access to clinical trials. In the
Life Sciences Vision publishing 2021, a number of groups emerged to look at the access to clinical
trials in the UK, growing the number
that take place. But acceleration has not been good.
I'm sure the all-party group for life sciences,
one of the things I hear most in the industry is the need to be more focused effort on clinical trials. With the Minister consider
establishing a clinical trials Task Force in her department to drive this important work forward?
11:43
Feryal Clark MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Enfield North, Labour)
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Thank you Mr Speaker. The government is doing and has done a
lot in the area and continues to support both through UKRI research
and through the health and social care department. There has been a
lot of funding into clinical research, and I'm happy to discuss
this further and let him know what more work is being done on this.
11:43
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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Question number three Mr Speaker.
leader in the new space race is vital to protect the U.K.'s security
and deliver on our mission for growth. This government has invested
in a range of launch capabilities including spaceport in Cornwall and in Scotland. And including launch vehicles too. Weasley made it £20
million investment to enable the UK
rocket manufacturer to construct their new launch vehicle.
11:44
Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)
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Can the minister outline how the
department is working to ensure the UK space sector is a launchpad for
innovation and investment, and create skilled jobs, commercial and in the defence sector across
Scotland and the UK?
11:44
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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He is right. We have space skills
across the UK but we have very particular expertise in Scotland. I enjoyed visiting Glasgow recently to
see how all parts of the Glasgow economy supports the Space Centre particularly in the small satellite
manufacturing sector. Several launch
operations including Orbitz are targeting orbital launches from
spacecraft in Shetland this year, this is a testament to the innovation taking place right across the UK and in Scotland.
11:45
Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)
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If that first space launch happens, and I believe it will, it
will happen in my constituency and the Secretary of State will be
welcome to join me. In order for the UK Space Centre as a whole to recognise the full opportunities
that we have here, we need to give serious delivery of the government
space mission. Last year a number of challenges right end of in the strategy. When we hear the
11:46
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I agree, when we came into office we did not inherit a clear strategy
to deliver our priorities for space. That strategy is now being developed. From the investments we
are making into space and the way we are making sure our relationship with the European space agency is delivering for the British sector
because we have more grants being delivered in the UK now than any other country. It shows we are
delivering. I share his enthusiasm and certainty that the launch will happen this year and I look forward to being alongside him to witness it.
11:46
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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I'm sure every member of the House would agree that Ofcom's reporting of mobile coverage is
overoptimistic and does not reflect people's lived experience. I'm determined to change that and Ofcom
are helping me to do that.
11:46
Claire Hughes MP (Bangor Aberconwy, Labour)
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My constituent suffers from
multiple health conditions and lives
in constant risk of seizures. Her
family rely on broadband to use a landline, but recently the broadband went down for several days and she was unable to make calls because of
ongoing problems for mobile coverage. Can we safeguard rural
coverage. Can we safeguard rural The coverage in Llandudno?
11:47
Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)
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I think she had a problem with the University as well, she has written to me, I will write back to her. Perhaps we can have a meeting.
I'm conscious that for medical conditions the resilience of connectivity is just as important as day to day coverage.
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Can I say she is one of -- he is
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Can I say she is one of -- he is one of the most experienced ministers in a government. Can I encourage him to visit structure
encourage him to visit structure where there are too many notspots.
where there are too many notspots. This country only has four mobile network operators. Isn't it time we
11:48
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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network operators. Isn't it time we have more competition? Is the Shared Rural Network agreement likely to hit its targets by the end of this year?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The Shared Rural Network will reach his targets. But he makes a
reach his targets. But he makes a good point. Which is that the connectivity that people think they are getting from Ofcom simply is not
are getting from Ofcom simply is not what they are actually getting. Their phone looks like it has lots
Their phone looks like it has lots of bars and as for G, but they
cannot park their car and download the app to do that. We have to transform across the whole of the UK.
Most of that is down to industry
11:48
Q5. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that smaller platforms are adequately regulated to protect children from online harms. (903448)
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UK. Most of that is down to industry and I want to make sure we remove some of the barriers to investment there are in industry so we improve
mobile connectivity for every member of the House. of the House.
11:48
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I welcome the national conversation taking place on how we
detect children online -- Protect.
The Online Safety Act requires all users to comply with legal content and child safety rules. Illegal content duties came into effect last week. I am closely monitoring the
safety.
11:49
Susan Murray MP (Mid Dunbartonshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Many schools in my constituency use mobile phones as an educational
tool. Yet, along with this learning opportunity comes easy access to
sites posting horrendous content. I
want to expose how foreign-based
websites are showing graphic
websites are showing graphic content. And how will smaller based platforms be adequately regulated to protect children from online harms?
protect children from online harms? protect children from online harms?
11:49
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I'm grateful for her question and the manner in which she expressed it, which expresses the complexity of use of smartphones and the benefits as well as potential
benefits as well as potential
harmful aspects of it also. I can assure her, as of last week, the demand to take down illegal content has come into force. I accept there
is still illegal content online. I'm watching closely the way that Ofcom
responds. They also have a task
force which is looking at the small
but risky sites she mentions.
I will be looking closely and supporting Ofcom in their requirement to act in those circumstances.
11:50
Ms Polly Billington MP (East Thanet, Labour)
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The domestic abuse charity, oasis, in my constituency, alerted
me to the appalling situation that young women are being coerced to set
up their own only friends I to generate income. Can the Secretary of State outline what steps he is
taking to ensure the sector can root taking to ensure the sector can root out coercion and exploitation?
11:51
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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She is a champion for these issues and oasis, great charity, is
To
11:51
Victoria Collins MP (Harpenden and Berkhamsted, Liberal Democrat)
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Students are calling for action
whether they are talking about brain rot, the impact on their mental
health, their self-esteem, world
outlook and their time. Does the Secretary of State agree with the Liberal Democrats that given the
public health crisis and the massive profits social media giants and Musk are making, we should be seeking
revenues from a Digital Services Tax revenues from a Digital Services Tax rather than cutting this for disabled people and struggling families?
11:52
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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We are determined to keep young
people safe online. Online activity and the services offered to people
in this country and around the world are adapting and evolving fast because of the speed of innovation.
We need a regulatory and legislative landscape that can keep up with that innovation and a government that will make sure it is on the side of
young people, vulnerable people of any age, going forward, and I can
any age, going forward, and I can assure her that in this government and Secretary of State they have it.
11:52
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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If we are to be a successful digital nation, we have to take the
whole of the nation with us. We were proud to publish our first digital inclusion action plan, the first of 10 years in this country, because we
want to take everybody with us.
11:53
Michelle Welsh MP (Sherwood Forest, Labour)
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Too often, communities including ex-mining communities such as Ollerton, Edwin Stowe, rural
communities such as France field, and elsewhere, people struggle to
get a phone signal and access to the internet. Constituents feel left
behind and miss out on the new and upcoming technologies that we know improve access to online jobs, education and business opportunities. Does the Minister
agree with me that we need to ensure that communities such as these are at the heart of the government's digital inclusion ambitions so that
no one is left behind! Especially those in deprived communities? those in deprived communities?
11:53
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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She is right, her constituency
Have less of the affluent areas, but poorer areas cheek by jowl. That is why we try to ensure we address all
the different forms of digital exclusion there are, whether by virtue of age, ethnicity, educational background or physical geography.
11:54
Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)
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Lack of access to digital services prevents people from applying for jobs, studying or
accessing healthcare. But organisations are helping to bridge
this by diversity tech that would
have gone to landfill, refurbishing and sending it to schools and people who need it. How does the Minister plan to support organisations like
this to prevent electrical waste going to landfill and tackling digital exclusion? digital exclusion?
11:54
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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I'm really pleased that is happening in her constituency and we were pleased as a government not only to be able to say many government departments will be
making sure we do precisely the same thing, but also that many major employers in this country are going to do the same as well. It is crazy
to throw old kit into landfill when it could be used much better to provide people with digital
opportunities for the future.
opportunities for the future.
11:55
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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I would like to start by thanking Professor Sullivan for her independent review into sex and
gender data. This is an important area and we have shared the report with the departments as part of our ongoing policy work. Lastly, landmark online safety measures came
into force and from now on, platforms will have to act to take
down illegal content. I have just got back from the United States where, from in videoconference stage
where, from in videoconference stage
II investment meetings, the UK is hungry for growth that a promises.
As the Chancellor shares the Spring
As the Chancellor shares the Spring Statement, that is something I will
Statement, that is something I will continue working with her on to deliver. deliver.
11:55
Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )
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He referenced space and eye as drivers to growth. Closer to home
our creative industries as huge drivers of growth but there is a battle with eye, if there content is taken and they do not get recompensed, that will damage the
economy also. Is he talking across
economy also. Is he talking across This is addressed? This is addressed?
11:56
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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We are lucky as a country to have the second largest creative arts sector in the world and the third-
largest a market in the world. This
11:57
Alan Mak MP (Havant, Conservative)
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is an opportunity for our country and any challenges it poses will be navigated by the government so both sectors are fit to exploit the opportunities that both have and for
opportunities that both have and for
opportunities that both have and for Luke Shipley has grown his tech start-up from two employees to over 105 years. This year, he wanted to
105 years. This year, he wanted to double its workforce in Britain, but Labour's job tax is forcing him to look abroad. Our communities at home
11:57
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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look abroad. Our communities at home are missing out. Why has the Secretary of State failed to protect
**** Possible New Speaker ****
them from Labour's job tax? They will have an economic
environment that is not only having their foundations of the economy
fixed but it is facing the future. So many people, globally and in organisations around the world,
building out in the UK, we have the best regulatory, legislative and economic environment to invest in Britain and thrive as a tech sector
11:57
Alan Mak MP (Havant, Conservative)
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Britain and thrive as a tech sector into the future. Thank goodness it
is this government doing it and not
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his government of the past. Luke says that Labour's job tax
11:58
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Luke says that Labour's job tax is below. Businesses are leaving the
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is below. Businesses are leaving the country. Why is the Secretary of State not the's less? I'm not sure he has been reading the news, we had over £30 billion
11:58
Cat Smith MP (Lancaster and Wyre, Labour)
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the news, we had over £30 billion with a tech investment in this country or around the world. He should be celebrating this, not talking us down.
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It was inspiring to speak to the
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It was inspiring to speak to the electrical and power organisation in my constituency. They are
my constituency. They are celebrating a world first, obtaining certification from the EU aviation safety agency for the first electric
11:58
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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safety agency for the first electric motor to power air mobility. Will he
join me congratulate even the need
to decarbonise air travel, will he look at this in the future.
look at this in the future.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
They are leading the way. The first to receive certification from
first to receive certification from the EU aviation agency for powering the generation of air mobility into the future. This is a government supporting that kind of innovation
11:59
Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)
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supporting that kind of innovation and making sure it is leading the world for innovation, job creation, wealth creation for our country and solving the big challenges the world
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faces into the future. I recently spoke at an event hosted by the French that looked at
hosted by the French that looked at how pornography and extreme content
11:59
Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP, The Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Hove and Portslade, Labour)
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how pornography and extreme content is contributing to misogynistic and toxic behaviour towards women. Can he tell us what this government is
proposing to do to implement recent recommendations of the report
**** Possible New Speaker ****
written by the previous government? And grateful for her question, she raises an important point. I have met with Baroness Bertin, the
have met with Baroness Bertin, the author of the report, I'm seeking ways to make sure the issues that
11:59
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she raised in it are acted upon.
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David Perry launches music career in my constituency and is today home
in my constituency and is today home
in my constituency and is today home to a community of creatives whose work is sought after by eye companies. They deserve a just deal to provide fair pay for my
12:00
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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to provide fair pay for my constituents and the legal certainty required to encourage a investment. What steps is the Minister taking to deliver this?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
We are a creative content superpower in this country and we will do nothing to undermine it. We want to make sure people are
want to make sure people are properly remunerated for their work and make sure eye companies have access to the high quality data they
12:00
Rt Hon Jeremy Hunt MP (Godalming and Ash, Conservative)
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access to the high quality data they need to be able to deploy
effectively in this country. -- AI.
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The whole House is filled up in concern at the atrocious mobile home
12:00
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
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concern at the atrocious mobile home signal at my High Street. Now spring is in there, will you visit the area
to see for himself what a problem this is?
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I was in PizzaExpress nearby only a couple of weeks ago and the mobile
a couple of weeks ago and the mobile signal was absolutely shocking. I could not find my way to the village
could not find my way to the village hall. I am not sure whether the MP
12:01
Prime Minister's Question Time
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is rubbish other telecoms Minister. We move to Prime Minister's
12:01
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
We move to Prime Minister's Question number one. Thank you Mr Speaker. Today's
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Mr Speaker. Today's Spring Statement will showcase the government going further and faster
on the economy. Green lighting the Lower Thames Crossing, investing
money for 80,000 affordable homes
for working families, 60,000 young people being trained, the next generation of construction workers and fixing millions of potholes. Undoing a decade of stagnation to
bring jobs and opportunities for working people and securing Britain's future. With this we get
tomorrow I will meet President Macron in Paris to discuss further our efforts to secure a lasting
our efforts to secure a lasting
peace in Ukraine.
May I welcome the
delegation from "Bring back kids" initiative to the gallery was not the abduction of children is grotesque and the UK will play our
full part to bring it back. It is a stark reminder that any peace settlement must see Russia accountable for their deplorable
actions. This morning I had meetings
with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this house I shall have further such meetings later today.
12:02
John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
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Under this Labour government NHS
waiting lists are down five months in a row. At a hospital in my
constituency it is playing its part. Many of my constituents remain concerned about the long wait in A&E
that they are experiencing that we inherited from the Conservatives.
Especially those who have to travel to the general Hospital in Coventry. Will the Prime Minister as set out
how our Plan for Change, to bring the NHS back into the heart of government, will help us to support
the frontline, deliver better emergency care, closer to the
community, that my constituents have long called for?
long called for? long called for?
12:03
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Mr Speaker we have already cut NHS waiting lists by almost 200,000. Five months in a row during the
winter. The local trust waiting list in his area are down 93%. He is doing a great job for his community. We have delivered 2 million extra
appointments that we promised because of the record investment in
the budget. Party opposite can't have it both ways. If they welcome
NHS investment they can't criticise raising the money to pay for it.
12:03
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Leader of the Opposition Kemi Badenoch.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr Speaker in 30 minutes we will hear the Chancellor's emergency
hear the Chancellor's emergency budget. Even the Home Secretary's husband because it's an emergency
husband because it's an emergency budget. As she scrambled to fix the mess she made last October. But
mess she made last October. But first let's turn to another government minister who is making a mess of her brief, the education
mess of her brief, the education secretary. Why did Labour MPs vote
12:04
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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against banning phones in schools last week? Because this could be
unnecessary. I have got teenage children almost every school bans phones in school. They do it
already. We need to concentrate on
what is really important here which is getting to the concept that children should be accessing. That
is where I would genuinely want to work across the house because I think there is a huge amount of work
to do. The battle is not with schools that are already banning phones in schools, the battle, and this is an important emerging
battle, is to work together to ensure that we can ensure that the content that children are accessing
wherever they are suitable for their age.
12:04
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr Speaker we can look at the
content but if the ban is
unnecessary then why is it that they have started a review? Last week his Education Secretary called a ban a gimmick, yet teachers and head
teachers say the evidence already shows that schools that ban phones
get better results. And he is wrong, not all schools do this, only one in 10 schools are smart phone free. Will he U-turn on this?
12:05
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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We need to ensure that schools do this. It is very important that we
focus on the battle we have to have with mobile phones which is the content that children are able to
access. We need to ensure that that is controlled where ever they are so
it is a question of having the right battle on the rights issue, not
wasting time on something where almost all schools are already banning all mobile phones.
12:05
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr Speaker I'm surprised the
Prime Minister would say this. His own government says that phones disrupt nearly half of GCSE classes
everything all day. Discipline is the number one issue in many
schools. Under the Conservatives, scores we came twice as likely to be good or outstanding after going
through our behaviour program. Why did the Education Secretary abolish that program?
12:06
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Mr Speaker, she talks about the record of the last government. Under
their watch one third of children started school without appropriate
level development. Not being able to use a knife and fork. One quarter
left primary school without the required standard of reading and writing, and maths. And one in five
was regularly absent. That is why we
are pushing up standards, more information from Ofsted, transparency for parents, and more interventions when schools need it. interventions when schools need it.
12:06
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr Speaker he is not answering a
question about discipline in schools because he doesn't care about discipline in schools. Everything he does is ideological. And his decisions are costing schools so
much. The National Insurance hike means every state school in the
country has to pay more for teachers. The Education Secretary
promised to compensate schools in full for the jobs tax. Why hasn't it happened?
12:07
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Mr Speaker it was Labour who introduced academies, we have pushed up standards, and this is not
ideological. I'm a parent of two teenage children both of whom go to
a state school, so I am invested in this and it matters hugely to me.
Nothing ideological about it. That is why we are driving up standards as we always have done. as we always have done.
12:07
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr Speaker he didn't answer the question about compensating schools for the jobs tax. That is costing
schools a lot of money was not the CEO United Learning Group said the
grant the game is 20% short. Some schools will face shortfalls of up to 35%. Can he guarantee that no
teacher will lose their job as a result of his jobs tax?
12:08
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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This government had a budget that put record amounts into our schools,
and record amounts into our NHS and into our public services. They were utterly failed under the last
government. Yet again she wants all the benefits for the NHS but she
can't say how she is going to pay for it. That is what got us into the mess in the first place.
12:08
Rt Hon Kemi Badenoch MP (North West Essex, Conservative)
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Mr Speaker the whole house will
have heard that he could not guarantee teachers jobs are safe. Not only is the taxing schools, he
is also lowering standards. We
talked about our record. I will tell what the record was. Under the Conservatives English schools shut
up, the internationally tables, while schools in Labour run Wales the standard spell. Academy freedoms led to the biggest improvement of
standards in a generation. But the Education Secretary is attacking them with her reforms.
Can the prior
minister point to any evidence at
all that these discredited Academy reforms will improve school standards? standards?
12:09
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Yes, take the example of schools going into academies, the vast majority of schools are already
academies. Therefore we need to think again about what we do about failing schools that are already academies. We need to go onto the
next chapter. They never take the big decisions, and that is why we ended up with open borders which she
was a cheerleader for, a crashed economy, mortgages through the roof, the NHS on its knees, hollowed out
Armed Forces, and what we got ready under this government, 2 million
extra NHS appointments, 750 breakfast clubs including one in the
constituency, record numbers of people in return you should not be
here, and a fully funded increase in defence spending full stop that is the difference a Labour government made.
12:09
Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )
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I recently visited Harlow College
and saw the work they were doing training the bricklayers and electricians of the future. With the Prime Minister agree with me that
work in Fe colleges like Harlow is
vital for the housebuilding we need full featured? What will his government do to support Harlow's next generation?
12:10
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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He's a great champion for his constituents. We are investing £600 million to train up to 60,000 more
skilled housebuilders so we can support the next generation and
deliver 1.5 million new homes. We are creating technical excellence at colleges and investing instances
airport creating 5000 jobs nearby which will create more opportunities for young people in Harlow. for young people in Harlow.
12:10
Rt Hon Ed Davey MP (Kingston and Surbiton, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat leader.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The British drama " Adolescence"
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The British drama " Adolescence" has shone a spotlight on the damage done by social media to the minds of our young people especially teenage
our young people especially teenage boys. We have argued social media
boys. We have argued social media giant should be much more tough regulated and pay more tax so we can defend young people from this harm. We have had disturbing reports that
We have had disturbing reports that the government is considering scrapping the digital services tax
scrapping the digital services tax and watering down the online safety legislation to appease resident Trump and his co-president Elon
Musk.
Will the Prime Minister today categorically rule out both of these
things and make it clear that he will guarantee that British laws on
tax and social media will be written in this house and not the White
House?
12:11
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Yes of course I see one is. On the point he makes about online
safety, it is important there are new measures coming in the next few months which are very important
under the act. We need to see whether we can go further on this issue because there are concerns as
to whether they go far enough. But will the laws be made here, of course.
12:11
Rt Hon Ed Davey MP (Kingston and Surbiton, Liberal Democrat)
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I'm grateful for the prime ministers reply on the social media laws but did not answer the point on
digital services tax. We will come back to that. After President
Trump's National Security Adviser accidentally added a journalist to a group chat, discussing military
action in Yemen, and given all the
concerns that we share about President Trump's relationship with
Vladimir Putin, and JD Vance insulting description of our Armed Forces, will the Prime Minister the
make it clear that he will order an urgent review into the security of
the intelligent that we share with United States?
12:12
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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We work with the United States on
a daily basis. I think the on and
would like, the honourable gentleman
would like to think of himself as reasonable and when he's not jumping in Windermere, quite serious. But
unpicking out security relationship with the US is neither responsible nor serious. nor serious.
12:13
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Medina in my constituency is registered blind. She recently told
me how she had been failed by the broken Social Security system left
behind by the Conservatives. She faces great difficulties in getting support from access to which is
across my constituency. And she was
not helped to find paid employment. It is so important that disabled people who want to work are supported to do so. What is the
supported to do so. What is the Prime Minister's message to Medina and others like her who have been
and others like her who have been shut out of employment for far too long? long?
12:13
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Every person. We will always
protect the most seriously disabled and those with lifelong conditions.
For those who want to work, we need
to support them. That is why we are investing £1 billion in a personalised tailoring employment programs and introducing the rights
to try work guarantee. The party opposite failed, presided over a failed system which did not help them and then blame them. We will never do that.
12:14
Rt Hon Stephen Flynn MP (Aberdeen South, Scottish National Party)
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Those that know me well know I don't talk of this often but for half of my adult life I was
physically disabled. I first walked through the door this chamber I did
so with something in my arm to support my bodyweight. I know how it
feels. Right now in Scotland some 55% of children living in poverty
have a member of the household that is a disabled person. Can the Prime
Minister explain to me, actually no, can the Prime Minister explain to
those children how the Labour Party making mum and dad poorer lift them
out of poverty?
12:15
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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I'm grateful to him for sharing his personal experience on this, and
he is right to do so. My family has been living with disability for many
years so I do understand the human element of this. We need to give
support to those that need it. We need to help those who want to work
into work. And we need to be clear that those who can work should work. In England we inherited a failed system that could not be defended.
It is also failing in Scotland for some 84,000 young Scottish people,
that is 15% of young Scottish people not in employment, education or training.
That is terrible. Almost
300,000 Scottish people are economically inactive due to
temporary or long-term illness. What we are doing is taking the steps to
help people into work, £1 billion for employment support. They have record funding under the budget. What are they going to do to help
What are they going to do to help
12:16
Andrew Ranger MP (Wrexham, Labour)
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The Investment Zone is one of the flagship examples of how when this government talks about kickstarting
economic growth, it means it. £160 million plan will breathe new life
into the local economy, create 6,000 local jobs, meaning for young people in Wrexham they can find more opportunities on their doorstep.
opportunities on their doorstep. With the Prime Minister join me in welcoming this investment for Wales and the potential it unlocks? and the potential it unlocks?
12:16
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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It is important we unleash the economic potential of North Wales.
Including kickstarting the Investment Zone, backed by major businesses like Airbus and JCB to
everyone billion pounds of private investment. Investing £975 million
to benefit aerospace workers. I met fantastic workers there. And the £1
million investment at the mill. We
put a record investment at the budget, a budget decision that was budget, a budget decision that was opposed by Plaid Cymru.
12:17
Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)
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Right honourable member asks
about shale gas. There are very real economic and environmental
economic and environmental consequences to fracking, communities have clearly said no.
I'm sorry but that answer had nothing to do with my question, which was to ask why the government
are ordering the permanent ceiling
of Britain's only two shale gas
wells. The government is perfectly entitled on environmental grounds to
not exploit such wells in normal conditions. But does he not recognise that in a desperate
situation such as an international conflict where other sources of power were cut off from us, taking a
decision now to concrete these things over so a future government
could not use them is an extremely irresponsible and reckless move as
Mike
12:18
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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He knows there are real
consequences of fracking, as I set
out. But what we need to do to secure our independence and lower bills for the next generation of jobs is move at speed to renewable
energy. That is why I am pleased there is record investment coming
into renewable energy so boots cannot be put on our throat. If the
cannot be put on our throat. If the party opposite do not want to party opposite do not want to support that investment, they should say so.
12:18
Kim Leadbeater MP (Spen Valley, Labour)
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With the Prime Minister join me in thanking colleagues from across
the House and the excellent Clarkson staff who have spent the last few months working on the assisted dying
Bill Committee? Would he agree with me that if the law is to change on assisted dying, it is extremely
important that it is implemented as soon as it is safe and practicable to do so?
12:19
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Can I congratulate colleagues
working on this bill and taking part in the debate, it is an important
issue on which there are different views across the House and within
parties. The bill is a matter for the House but it is the government's role to ensure every piece of
legislation that passes through Parliament is effective and workable, so we will continue to work with my honourable friend as
the bill sponsor to do that. In the same way we would for every Private
Member's Bill which passes second reading.
If Parliament chooses to pass this bill, the government will implement it in a way that is safe
and practicable.
12:20
Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)
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Acorns children's Hospice provides compassionate care to very young cancer patients and their
families across my area, yet it faces a staggering £416,000 increase
faces a staggering £416,000 increase
in National Insurance Contribution as a result of choices made by this government. With no exemption for hospices and no uplifting capital
funding, this means the charity will have to draw from charitable donations made by the public and
this will affect frontline services. This is not right. Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity to Minister take this opportunity to right this wrong and exempt hospices from this?
12:20
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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We are investing £100 million in
children's hospices to improve facilities, equipment and
accommodation as well as £36 million
funding to the children's Hospice grant. But their cries and moaning would have more value if they started their question with an apology for crashing the economy in the first place.
12:20
Jacob Collier MP (Burton and Uttoxeter, Labour)
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Roads in Burton and Uttoxeter and
across Staffordshire are littered with potholes. Local people are forking out thousands because of the Conservatives neglect and incompetence. That is despite this
Labour government giving Tory Staffordshire County Council £39
million to get the job done. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that the people of Staffordshire
deserve better than roads with more dimples than a Staffordshire oatcake?
12:21
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Potholes are a real nuisance. If
you are using your car for work or van and you hit a pothole you are
looking at a bill of several hundred pounds which is unbudgeted for. That
is why it we are handing the West Midlands Combined Authority an
additional £6.8 -- £6.8 million.
Every council must now publish every pothole they feel so we can show we are making progress and we are delivering something that did not
delivering something that did not happen under the last government.
12:22
John Cooper MP (Dumfries and Galloway, Conservative)
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When he was director of public, the right honourable gentleman would not have sat comfortably in the
Cabinet with Cameron. But in the
prosecutions in Scotland we do have
someone who sits in Cabinet. It will not personally involved the Lord Advocate does sit at the head of the
investigation into the former first Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, facing
potential criminal charges. This situation has been created by the SNP and they will not fix it. Does SNP and they will not fix it.
Does it sit with this House to amend the situation?
12:22
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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This is an important issue. Labour in Scotland are being clear
that they are separating this role.
That is the right thing to do for the reasons that have just been articulated. It is the obvious thing
to do. It is what we do in England and Wales. There have been reports of review on this in 2021 the SNP
have not acted fast on those reviews. They need to bring forward proposals now to deal with the proposals now to deal with the problems that have been sitting there for a very long time.
12:23
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Can I join the Prime Minister in
welcoming the delegation from those trying to return the tens of
thousands of children abducted by Vladimir Putin. They have been
working with the Yale university humanitarian lab who were tracking thousands of those children inside
Russia until recently. They have had their long term funding removed.
Will he consider using our existing contributions to the partnership fund for resilient Ukraine to restore the important work that they
restore the important work that they are doing and restore the hope that those children can be returned to those children can be returned to their anguished families?
12:24
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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And grateful to him for
emphasising this. Russia's abduction of Ukrainian children is sickening. Across the House we would agree. The
peace settlement in Ukraine must see Russia held to account and children
reunited with their families. In reference to his question, the UK is playing our full part in international efforts, including
funding that bring kids back
initiative through the partnership fund for resilient Ukraine. I want to reassure the Whole House that we
do everything we can to see these children reintegrated as safely and quickly as is possible.
12:24
Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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The seven-year-old adoptive
daughter of my constituent, Sarah, suffered immense trauma in her early years. Points to support from the
adoption and special guardianship
support fund, she has been able to access much-needed therapy that has helped her progress. But she and thousands of others do not know if
they will be able to get more help because in five days that fund ends and ministers have repeatedly
refused to confirm whether it will continue. Can the Prime Minister
give a cast-iron guarantee to vulnerable children, adoptive parents and kinship carers that he will not cut this fund? So that in
Sarah's words, she can give her daughter the absolute best second
chance she deserves? chance she deserves?
12:25
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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We will set out the details later on, the scheme overall in terms of
welfare is not on those terms, but
welfare is not on those terms, but it must be a scheme that supports those that needs it and the details will be set up.
12:25
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)
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In Slough, Christians, Hindus,
Jews, Sikhs, people of faith and no
faith, declared that if anyone tried to attack a mosque in our town, the stand in solidarity with the Muslim community to protect it. Since then,
many have become more fearful, with a rise in Islamophobic attacks, including this month after mosque in
Aberdeen. What steps is the government taking to tackle such a crime and promote community cohesion so those seeking to divide our
British society are not allowed to succeed? succeed?
12:26
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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I thank him for his question. He
does great work to bring communities together, especially in Slough. Any form of racial, religious-based
hatred is apparent and has no place in society. We have set aside over £50 million to protect both
communities and freedom. That is the
right thing to do, it is a shame we have to do it. Our community recovery fund has been supporting
communities affected by the disorder last summer. The right thing to do but it is a shame we have to do it.
but it is a shame we have to do it.
12:27
Rt Hon Sir Roger Gale MP (Herne Bay and Sandwich, Conservative)
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The problems faced by Heathrow earlier in the week highlighted
again the fact that since the closure of the airport in Kent, a
major diversion facility, one diversion facility would not have
compensated for the closure of Heathrow, but with the Minister
agree that the reopening of Manston planned for October 2028, there will planned for October 2028, there will be significant contribution to resilience of aviation in the south-east?
12:27
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Is right to raise the concern
about the situation at Heathrow, I think everyone is concerned about
what happened last week. There are
clearly questions that need to be answered on a number of fronts in terms of what happened and an investigation is ongoing. But I'm
investigation is ongoing. But I'm not going to announce particular parts of the policy and strategy here at this stage.
12:28
Irene Campbell MP (North Ayrshire and Arran, Labour)
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In my constituency of North Ayrshire and Arran, the SNP very fiasco is having a devastating
social and economic in. As well as building a ferry that does not fit
into the existing harbour, it is
estimated the disrupted ferries cross that I love Aaron £170,000 of lost revenue per day. Does the
Minister agree with me that the SNP
Minister agree with me that the SNP government needs to find a parking solution to swiftly address this situation?
situation?
12:28
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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I thank her for fighting SNP, -- incompetence on behalf of her constituents. The SNP are failing communities on the islands, hospital
appointments. -- Missed. Scotland
appointments. -- Missed. Scotland has a history of shipbuilding, the
has a history of shipbuilding, the The supporting this.
12:29
Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)
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The incinerator in my constituency, I'm concerned that as we reduce our levels of waste, with the new plans to recycle more, we
are going to have to feed the monster. The area has 95 percent of the capacity, does the Prime
Minister agree we should not allow new plans where we already have sufficient capacity or where carbon capture is not going to be included?
12:29
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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I hope you will forgive me, the details of the particular
incinerator she speaks, I do not know the details, I'm not across that but I will make sure she gets answer to her question in written form as soon as possible.
12:29
Chris McDonald MP (Stockton North, Labour)
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Can I commend him for his leadership on Ukraine, showing that
the UK is once again at the forefront of protecting democratic freedoms. Does he agree that as defence spending increases, we need
to support supply chain companies to increase their capability, creating jobs and apprenticeships in Stockton North and across the country, and
will he meet with me and the defence in a cluster I established that is helping to create that defence
helping to create that defence community for the UK? community for the UK?
12:30
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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That is a once in a generation mirrored in terms of security of our
country and our continent. We set the defence funding to 2.5 percent in 2027, the biggest debut since the Cold War, but that must benefit
British jobs and British businesses. That is why I will make sure he gets the meeting he wants with the relevant Minister.
relevant Minister. relevant Minister.
12:30
Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)
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The Chancellor last year delivered a massive tax borrow and spend budget. Now the plans have collapsed around her ears with a
emergency budget to cut that spending. Has the time come for the Prime Minister to stating public that he has full confidence in the Chancellor?
12:30
Frank McNally MP (Coatbridge and Bellshill, Labour)
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I have full confidence in the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I have full confidence in the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Mr Speaker. A football institution has been my constituency
institution has been my constituency since 1882. But following relegation and the lack of financial support for teams leaving professional
for teams leaving professional leagues, now faces a deeply perilous situation, risking the very future
situation, risking the very future of one of Scotland oldest football clubs. Thus my right honourable
friend agree that clubs like this are integral to the fabric of our communities? Will he join me in
encouraging all parties to be solution focused on this matter, and encourage football authorities to
strengthen our clubs in the lower leagues to help protect their future?
12:31
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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He is a superb local champion. Regardless of which club many of us
support, we share a love of the game and they are the heart of our
communities. Albion Rovers is that, a huge point of local pride. I
encourage all efforts to secure the future of the club.
12:32
Dr Kieran Mullan MP (Bexhill and Battle, Conservative)
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Final question.
joined in Parliament today by KC, whose 16-year-old sister, Sasha, was
raped and stabbed to death. I share the same whose cousin was killed by
a sex offender and body in a freezer. And Tony who lost his legs,
and Becky whose daughter was killed by a hit-and-run driver who spent barely more time in prison than he
was alive. And they have come
together and it is time to start insuring sentences truly deliver justice for victims and their
family.
The Prime Minister agreed to a meeting in future to hear their stories first hand?
12:32
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP, The Prime Minister (Holborn and St Pancras, Labour)
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Can I thank him for raising this issue. The courage of these
campaigners after simply appalling cases is astounding. I find it
humbling. I'm pleased the Minister for the will be meeting the group I
think today, and I look forward to meeting them in the future because we must prioritise victims and make
sure sentences punish offenders and sure sentences punish offenders and protect the public. I thank him for raising this important set of cases.
That completes Prime Minister's Questions.
We will let the
12:33
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12:33
Financial Statement: Spring Statement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
We now come to that We now come to that Spring Statement. Chancellor of the
12:33
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Exchequer.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr Speaker, this Labour government was elected to bring change to our country. To provide
change to our country. To provide security for working people and to deliver a decade of national
deliver a decade of national renewal. That work began in July will stop and I'm proud of what we
have delivered in just nine months. Restoring stability to our public
Restoring stability to our public finances, giving the Bank of England the foundation to cut interest rates three times since the general
12:34
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three times since the general election. Rebuilding our public services with record investment in
12:35
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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our NHS, bringing waiting lists down
for five months in a row. An increasing the National Living Wage,
increasing the National Living Wage, to give 3 million people a pay rise
from next week. Now our task is to secure Britain's future, in a world that is changing before our eyes.
that is changing before our eyes. The threats facing our continent was transformed when Putin invaded Ukraine. It has since escalated
Ukraine. It has since escalated further. And continues to evolve
rapidly.
At the same time global economy has become more uncertain.
Bringing insecurity at home, as trading patterns become more
unstable, and borrowing costs rise for many major economies. Mr Speaker the job of a responsible government
is not simply to watch this change. This moment demands an active government. A government not
stepping back but stepping up. A government on the side of working
people, helping Britain to reach its
potential. Mr Speaker we have the strength to do just that. As one of
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the world's largest economies, an ally to trading partners across the
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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globe, and a hub for global in the. These strengths and the progress that we have made so far means that
that we have made so far means that we can act quickly and decisively in a more uncertain world. To secure
Britain's future and to deliver prosperity for working people. Mr
prosperity for working people. Mr Speaker, as I've set out at the budget last year, I am today
budget last year, I am today returning to the house to provide an update on our public finances.
Supported by a new forecast from the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. Head of the full
Spending Review in June, I will then return to the house in the autumn to deliver a budget. In line with our
commitment to deliver just one major fiscal event each year. Let me now
turn to the OBR's forecasts. I want to thank Richard Hughes and his team
for their dedicated work. The increased global uncertainty has had two consequences. First on our
public finances and second on our
economy.
I will take each in turn. In the autumn I set out our new fiscal rules that will guide this
government. These fiscal rules are nonnegotiable. They are the embodiment of this government
unwavering commitment to bring stability to our economy, and to
ensure security for working people. Because the British people have seen
what happens when a government
borrows beyond their means. The min-Budget delivered by the party
opposite resulted in higher bills, with higher rents and higher
mortgages.
Mr Speaker, it was not the wealthy who suffered most when they crash the economy, it was
ordinary working people. And they continue to feel the effects will
stop 2 1/2 years later, of the damage that the party opposite did.
Let me be clear. There is nothing
progressive, there is nothing Labour about working people paying the price for economic irresponsibility.
The British people put their trust in this Labour government because
they knew that I would never take risks with the public finances.
We
would never do anything to put household finances in danger. And we
must earn that trust every single
day. The two rules that I set out at that budget were, first, our stability role. It ensures public
spending is under control. Balancing
the current budget by 2029/30. So that day-to-day spending is met by
tax receipts. Second, our investment rule, to drive growth in the economy. Ensuring the net financial
debt falls by the end of the forecast period.
While enabling us to invest alongside business.
Turning first to the stability role,
the OBR's forecast shows that before the steps I will take in this
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statement, the current budget would have been in deficit by £4.1 billion in 2029/30. Having been in surplus
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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in 2029/30. Having been in surplus by £9.9 billion. As the UK, alongside our international peers
alongside our international peers like France and Germany have seen the cost of borrowing rise during this period of heightened
this period of heightened uncertainty in global markets. As a result of the steps that I am taking
today, I can confirm that I have restored in full our headroom
restored in full our headroom against the stability rule. Moving
from a deficit of £36.1 billion in 2025/26 and 30 in 2025/26 and £30.4
billion one year later to a surplus
of £6 billion in 2027/28, £7.1 billion in 2028/29 and a surplus of
£9.9 billion in 2029/30.
That
compares to the headroom left by the previous government of just £6.5
billion. That means we are continuing to meet the stability rule two years early. Building
resilient to shocks in this, a more uncertain world. The OBR forecast
that the investment rule is also met two years early. With net financial
two years early. With net financial
debt of 82.9% of GDP in 2025/26 and 83.5% in 2026/27. Before falling to
83.4% one year later, and 83.2% in
2028/29.
Aung Soe 82.7% in 2029/30.
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Providing headroom of £15.1 billion in the final year of the forecast.
12:41
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Broadly unchanged from the autumn. After the last government doubled
After the last government doubled the national debt, debt interest, after they doubled the national
after they doubled the national debt, debt interest payments now stand at £105.2 billion this year.
stand at £105.2 billion this year.
stand at £105.2 billion this year. That is more that we allocate to defence, the Home Office, and the Minister of Justice combined. That
is the legacy of the party opposite.
So the responsible choice is to reduce our levels of debt and borrowing in the years ahead.
So we can spend more on the priorities of
working people. That is exactly what this government will do. Mr Speaker,
I said our fiscal rules were nonnegotiable. And I meant it. I will always deliver economic
civility and I will always put working people first. I said it at
the election, I said it at the
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budget, and I say it again today. Let me now set out the steps that the government has taken. At the
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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the government has taken. At the budget, we protected working people. By keeping our promise not to raise their rates of National Insurance,
their rates of National Insurance, income tax, or VAT. At the same
income tax, or VAT. At the same time, we began to rebuild our public services. After the party opposite
services. After the party opposite left a £22 billion black hole in public services. We made the right
public services. We made the right choices, the right choices for stability and the right choices for
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renewal. Funded by the decisions we took on tax. As I promised in the
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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autumn, this statement does not contain any further tax increases. But when working people are paying
But when working people are paying their taxes, whilst still struggling with the cost-of-living, cannot be
with the cost-of-living, cannot be right that others are still evading what they rightly owe in tax. In the
what they rightly owe in tax. In the budget I delivered most ambitious package of measures that we had ever
seen to cut down on tax evasion. Raising £6.5 billion each year by the end of the forecast.
Today I go
further. Continuing our investment in cutting-edge technology,
investing in the HMRC's capacity to crack down on tax avoidance, and
setting out plans to increase the number of tax fraudsters charged every year by 20%. These changes
raise a further £1 billion. Taking that total revenue raised from reducing tax evasion under this
Labour government to 7.5 billion.
These figures are verified by the Office for Budget Responsibility, and I want to thank my honourable
friend the Exchequer's, for his continued work in this area.
Last
week my right honourable friend Secretary of State for Work and Pensions set out this government plans to reform the welfare system.
The Labour Party is the party of
work. We believe that if you can work you should work. But if you can't work you should be properly
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supported. This government inherited a broken system. More than 1000
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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a broken system. More than 1000 people every day are qualifying for Personal Independence Payments. One
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Personal Independence Payments. One in eight young people are not in employment, education, or training. If we do nothing, we are writing off
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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If we do nothing, we are writing off an entire generation. That cannot be
an entire generation. That cannot be right and we will not stand for it. It is a waste of their potential and
It is a waste of their potential and it is a waste of their futures, and we will change it. As my right honourable friend said in her
statement last week, the final costings will be subject to the OBR's assessment. Today the OBR have said that they estimate that the
package will save £4.8 billion in
the welfare budget.
Reflecting their judgement of behavioural effects and wider factors. This also reflects
final adjustments to the overall
package, consistent with the Secretary of State statement last week, and the government pathway to work Green Paper. Universal Credit standard allowance will increase
from £92 each week in 2025/26 in
2025/£26-£106 each week by 2029/34
top of the Universal Credit health element will be cut for new claimants by around 50% then frozen. On top of this, we are investing £1
billion to provide guaranteed personalised employment support to
help people back into work.
And £400 million to support the partner for work and pensions and I jobcentres
to deliver these changes effectively and fairly. Taking total savings
after that to the package to £3.4 billion. While spending on
disability and sickness benefits will continue to rise, these plans mean that welfare spending as a
share of GDP will fall between 2026 and the end of the forecast period.
We are reforming the system, making
it more sustainable, protecting the most vulnerable and supporting more people back into secure work,
lifting them out of poverty.
At the
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Budget, I fixed the foundations of our economy, to deliver on the promise of change. That work has
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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promise of change. That work has already begun. 2 million extra appointments in our NHS. Waiting
appointments in our NHS. Waiting list down. New breakfast clubs opening across England. The largest settlements in real terms for
settlements in real terms for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in the history of devolution. Asylum
in the history of devolution. Asylum costs falling, promises made, promises kept. And every single one of them opposed by the parties
of them opposed by the parties opposite. At the Budget, alongside
providing an increase in funding for this year and next, I set the envelope for the spending review,
which we will deliver in June, led by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
To set departmental budgets until 2028/29 for day-to-day
spending and until 2029/30 the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. To set departmental budgets until 2028/29
for day-to-day spending and until 2029/34 capital spending. Today I am reflecting two steps we have taken
on our spending plans. Because we are living in an uncertain world, as the Prime Minister has set out, we
will increase defence spending to 2.5 percent of GDP, reducing overseas aid to 0.3 percent of Gross National Income. This means we save
£2.6 billion in day-to-day spending in 2029/32 fund more capital
intensive defence commitments.
In recent months, we have begun to
fundamentally reform the British state, driving efficiency and productivity across government, to
deliver tangible savings and improve
services across our country. Earlier, the Prime Minister set out plans to abolish the Arms Length
Body, NHS England, and ensure that money goes directly to improving the
service for patients. The Health Secretary is driving forward vital
reforms to increase NHS productivity. Bearing down on costly agencies spend, to save money so we can improve patient care.
And the
can improve patient care. And the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
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is taking forward work to reduce the cost of running government by 15 percent, £2 billion by the end of the decade. This work shows that we
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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the decade. This work shows that we can make our state leaner and more agile. Delivering more resources to
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agile. Delivering more resources to the frontline. While ensuring we control day-to-day spending to meet our fiscal rules. Today, I build on
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Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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our fiscal rules. Today, I build on that work. By bringing forward £3.25 billion of investment to deliver the
billion of investment to deliver the reforms that our public services need through a new transformation fund. Money brought forward now to bring down the cost of running
bring down the cost of running government by the end of the forecast. By making public services
more efficient, more productive and more focused on the user. I can confirm today the first allocations
from this month, including funding
for voluntary exit schemes to reduce the size of the Civil Service, pioneering a tools to modernise the
state -- AI tools.
Ministry of Justice delivering probation services more effectively. And upfront investment so we can support
more children into foster care to give them the best possible start in life and reduce cost pressures in
the future. Our work to make government leaner, more productive
and more efficient will help deliver a further £3.5 billion of day-to-day
spending is by -- savings by 2030. Day-to-day spending will be reduced
by £1.6 billion by 2029/30. And grow by an average of 1.2 percent a year above inflation compared to 1.3
percent in the autumn.
I confirm to the House that day-to-day spending will increase in real terms above inflation in every single year of
the forecast. In the spending
review, apart from the reduction overseas aid, day-to-day spending
across government has been fully protected. I can also confirm our
approach to capital investment. In the Autumn Budget, I announced £100
billion of additional capital spending to crowd investment from the private sector, to fix crumbling
infrastructure and create jobs in every corner of our country. Today,
I'm not cutting capital spending as the party opposite did time and time
again.
Because that choked off growth and left our school roofs literally crumbling. That was the
wrong choice, it was the irresponsible choice, it was the
Tory choice. I am today increasing capital spending by an average of £2
billion per year compared with autumn, to drive growth in our economy and deliver in full our
vital commitments on defence. This
government will ensure that we
deliver for the British people by increasing productivity, driving growth in the economy and improving
frontline services.
Let me turn to the impact of increased uncertainty
on our economy. To deliver economic
stability we must work closely with the Bank of England, supporting the independent Monetary Policy
Committee to meet their inflation target. There have been three interest rate cuts since the general election and today's data shows that inflation fell in February. Having
peaked at 11 percent under the previous government, the OBR
forecast that CPI inflation will average 3.2 percent this year,
before falling rapidly to 2.1 percent in 2026 and meeting the two
percent target from 2027 onwards.
Giving families and businesses the security they need and providing our economy with the stable platform it
needs to grow. Earlier this month,
the OECD downgraded this year's growth forecast for every G-7
economy, including the UK. The OBR today revised our growth forecast for 2025 from two percent in the
autumn to one percent today. I am
not satisfied with these numbers. That is why we, on the side of the House, are serious about taking the
action needed to grow our economy.
Backing the bill does not the blockers, with 1/3 runway at Heathrow Airport and the planning
and infrastructure bill, increasing investment with reforms to the pension system and a new National
Wealth Fund. And tearing down regulatory barriers in every sector
of our economy, that is a serious Plan for Growth, a serious plan to improve living standards and a
serious plan to renew our country. The changing world presents
challenges, but it also presents new
opportunities, for new jobs and new contracts, in our world-class defence industrial centres, from
defence industrial centres, from
Belfast to Deeside and Plymouth to elsewhere.
In February we set our
Spending on defence to 2.5 percent of GDP from April 2027. The biggest
sustained increase in defence spending since the end of the Cold War. An ambition to spend three
percent of GDP on defence in the next Parliament. That was the right decision in a more insecure world, putting an extra £6.4 billion into
defence spending by 2027. But we
have to move quickly in this changing world and that starts with investment. Today, I confirm that I will provide an additional £2.2
billion for the Ministry of Defence in the next financial year.
A
further downpayment on our plans to deliver 2.5 percent of GDP by 2027.
This additional investment is not just about increasing our national security, but increasing economic
security also. As defence spending rises, I want the whole country to
feel its benefits. I will set out
the immediate steps to taking to boost Britain's defence industry and make the UK a defence superpower. We
will spend a minimum of 10 percent of the history of defence's equipment budget are novel
technologies, including drones and
AI technology.
Driving forward advanced manufacturing production in Glasgow, Derby and Newport. Creating
demand for highly skilled engineers and scientists. And delivering new business opportunities for UK tech
firms and start-ups. We will establish a protected budget of £400
million within the Ministry of Defence, a budget that will rise
over time with UK defence in, with a mandate to bring innovative technology to the front line at
speed. We will reform our broken defence procurement system, making
it quicker, more agile and more streamlined and giving small businesses across the UK better
access to Ministry of Defence contracts, something welcomed by the Federation of Small Business.
We
will take forward our plan for
Barrow, a town at the heart of our nuclear security, working with the Member for Byron Furnace and
, supporting jobs there. We will
support Portsmouth's naval base, securing its future. We will secure better homes for thousands of
military families, the homes they deserve denied to them by the previous government. Homes for military families in constituencies
of my honourable friends for Plymouth, York and Aldershot. That
is the difference this government is
making.
We will provide £2 billion of increased capacity for UK Export Finance. To provide loans for overseas buyers of UK defence goods
and services, because I want to do more with our defence budget so we can buy and make and sell things
here in Britain. Giving further opportunities for our world leading defence companies and those who work
in them to grow and create jobs here in Britain as military spending
rightly increases all across Europe. To oversee all of this vital work,
my right honourable friend, the Defence Secretary and ICOM will establish a new defence growth board to maximise the benefits from every
pound of taxpayers money we spend.
We will put defence at the heart of our modern industrial strategy to drive innovation that can deliver huge benefits back into the British
economy. That is how we make our
country a defence industrial superpower, so the skills of the future, the jobs of the future and
the opportunities of the future can be found right here in the United
Kingdom. As the previous government
learned, to their detriment, there
are shortcuts to economic growth. -- There are no shortcuts to economic growth.
It takes long-term
decisions, it will take time for the reforms we are introducing to be
felt in the everyday economy. It is right that the office for the budget responsibility consider evidence and think carefully before a great
impact in their forecast. The OBR
have considered and have scored one
of the central planks of our Plan for Growth. In my first week as Chancellor, I announced we were
pursuing the most ambitious set of planning reforms in decades. To get Britain building again.
In December,
we published changes to the national plan policy framework. Driven by the Deputy Prime Minister, reintroducing
mandatory housing targets and bringing grey belt land into scope. The OBR have concluded that these
reforms will permanently increase
the level of real GDP. By 0.2
percent in 2029/30 and an additional
£6.8 billion for our economy. And by 0.4 percent of GDP within 10 years,
an additional £15.1 billion in our British economy. That is the biggest
positive growth impact that the OBR have ever reflected in their
forecast for a policy with no fiscal
cost.
Taken together with our plans to increase capital spending that we set out in the budget last year,
this government's policies will increase the level of real GDP by 0.6 percent in the next 10 years.
That is the difference that this
Labour government is making.
Policies to grow our economy, promises by a Labour government, delivered by a Labour government,
opposed by the parties opposite. The planning system that we inherited was far too slow. The OBR have
concluded that the reforms will lead
to housebuilding reaching a 40 year
high.
305,000 homes a year by the end of the forecast period. Changes to the National Planning Policy
Framework alone will help build over 1.3 million homes in the UK over the
Taking us within touching distance of delivering our manifesto promise to build 1.5 million new homes in
this Parliament. Homes promised by this Labour government, homes built
by this Labour government, homes posed by the party opposite. The impact on our economy goes further
impact on our economy goes further
still.
I said that the election we could not simply tax and spend our way to prosperity. We need economic
growth. So I can today confirm that the effect of our growth policies including our planning reforms means
an additional £3.4 billion to support our public finances and our
public services by 2029/30. The
proceeds of growth promised by this Labour government delivered by this Labour government, opposed by the
parties opposite. Earlier this week we provided an additional £2 billion of investment in social and
affordable homes next year.
Delivery
up to 18,000 new homes. And allowing local areas to bid for new development across our country. Including sites in Thanet, in
Including sites in Thanet, in
Sunderland, and in Swindon. More security for families across our country, promised by this Labour
government, delivered by this Labour government and opposed by the party opposite. To build these new homes we need people with the right
skills. Earlier this week my right honourable friend Education Secretary announced more than £600
million to train up 60,000 more construction workers, including with
10 new technical excellence colleges across every region of our country.
Giving working people the chance to
fulfil their potential. New opportunities for our young people. Promised by this Labour government,
delivered by this Labour government,
opposed by the parties opposite. Mr Speaker all this is just the start. The Planning and Infrastructure Bill
passed its second reading on Monday. No thanks to the parties opposite.
Once this Bill completes its passage, it will help deliver the homes and infrastructure our country
badly needs. And I say to the parties opposite, the British people
will be watching.
Because if the
parties opposite don't support these reforms, let us be clear about what that means. They are opposing
economic growth. They are opposing
more homes for families. They are opposing good jobs across our country. We on this side are clear
about whose side we are on, the
parties opposite must decide too. This Labour government is taking the right decisions now to secure
Britain's future. And today I can confirm to the house that the OBR have upgraded their growth forecast
next year and every single year
thereafter.
With GDP growth, with
GDP growth of 1.9% in 2026, of 1.8%
in 2027, 1.7% in 2028, and 1.8% in 2029. Mr Speaker by the end of the
forecast, our economy is larger
compared to the OBR's forecast at the time of the budget. That is the difference that this Labour
government is making. Mr Speaker this isn't just about lines on a
graph. It is about improving people's lives. Working people are still feeling the pinch after a
cost-of-living crisis caused by the party opposite that cause interest
rates and inflation to go through the roof.
I am pleased that the OBR
confirmed today that real household disposable income will now grow this
year at almost twice the rate expected in the autumn. Compared to
the forecast in the final budget delivered by the party opposite, and after taking into account inflation,
the OBR say today that people will be on average over £500 a year
better off under this Labour
government. That will mean more money in the pockets of working
people. Higher living standards, promised by this Labour government, delivered by this Labour government
and opposed by the parties opposite.
Mr Speaker, the world is changing. We can see that and we can feel it.
A changing world demand a government that is on the side of working
people. Acting in their interests, acting in the national interest. Not
retreating from challenges. Not stepping back. But a government with
the courage to step up. To secure
Britain's future and to seize the opportunities that are out there
before us. I am impatient for change. The British people are impatient for change, after 14 years
of failure.
We are beginning to see change happen. Our Plan for Change is working. Defence spending is
rising. Waiting list are falling. Wages are up, interest rates are
cut, that is the difference at this
Labour government is making. And today the OBR confirm our plan to get Britain building will drive
growth in our economy and put more money in people's pockets. There are
no quick fixes but we have taken the
right choices. Returning stability to our economy after years of mismanagement by the party opposite.
Delivering security for our country and security for working people. That is what drives this government.
That is what drives me as Chancellor. That is what drives the
choices that I have set out today. I
commend this statement to the house.
13:07
Rt Hon Mel Stride MP (Central Devon, Conservative)
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Shadow Chancellor Mel Stride.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr Speaker at the last budget,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr Speaker at the last budget, the right honourable lady said that she would bring stability to the public finances. Stability to the
public finances. Stability to the public finances. This statement more appropriately referred to as an
appropriately referred to as an
appropriately referred to as an emergency budget, has brought her to a Coltart...
**** Possible New Speaker ****
a Coltart... Can I just say quite rightly I wanted to hear the Chancellor and I
want to hit the Shadow Chancellor. I don't need help.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
This emergency budget has brought the right honourable lady to a cold
the right honourable lady to a cold hard reckoning. She has become very fond recently to talk about the world having changed. Indeed it has
world having changed. Indeed it has Mr Speaker. This country was growing at the fastest rate in the G7. One
at the fastest rate in the G7. One year ago. And just as the OECD and
the Bank of England and other forecasters and now we learn today the OBR have stated, growth has been
the OBR have stated, growth has been halved in this year.
Cut into Mac as a consequence of the decisions and
the choices of the right honourable lady. Inflation, which was down to
2%, bang on target on the very day of the last general election under a
Conservative government, we are now told this year it will be running at twice the level of the forecast
under ourselves in 2024. This is going to mean prices bearing down on
households and on businesses right across the country because of her
choices. The OBR also says that
unemployment will be rising this year and next year and the year
after.
And in fact across the forecast period it will not decline at all. So much for the right
honourable ladies back to work
plans. We have already seen what it means when it comes to controlling borrowing under this Chancellor. She
has come forward now with a plan to squeeze spending later on in the forecast period. And she has of
course told the OBR that these are the elements of spending restraint which she will stick. But what do
the markets think? Could I ask the right honourable lady, given her track record, given the fact that
she has failed to control spending
and borrowing today, what does she think the markets are going to make of her latest promises? The right
honourable lady says of course that
none of this is her fault.
But that is the war in Ukraine, it is
President Trump, it is tariffs, it
is President Putin, it is the Conservatives, it is the legacy, it is anyone but her. The British
people know that this is a
consequence of her choices. She is the architect of her own misfortune.
It was the right honourable lady who talked down the economy. Who talked
down the economy so that business surveys and confidence crashed through the floor. It was the right
honourable lady who confected the
£22 billion black hole.
A
smokescreen that was only ever there in order to cover up the fact that she and the prime minister renege on
their promises to the British people during the last general election.
And a black hole that the OBR themselves ironically at the government's behest have said they
will not legitimise. She chose to be reckless with a sliver of headroom
reckless with a sliver of headroom
That That will That will be That will be cold That will be cold comfort That will be cold comfort to That will be cold comfort to the
That will be cold comfort to the
millions up and down the country waiting in fear for the start of the tax year.
Buckling under the burden
of tax, rising to the highest tax burden on her watch in the history
of our country. Can I ask the right
honourable lady if, when she replies in a moment, she will give much needed reassurance to businesses that she will not be ramping up
taxes still further in the autumn. Even a basic economist knows that if
you tack something, you get less of it. You do not need to have worked
She has destroyed livelihoods, businesses, probably big and small companies.
The backbone of our
economy. Enterprise crossed on the
altar of her ineptitude. The CIPD telling us one third of those businesses affected will shed
labour. Morrison is losing 200 jobs, Tesco 400, Sainsburys 3000 jobs lost. No wonder Federation of Small
Businesses say that outside of the pandemic, business confidence has
been left at its lowest level on record. But it is not just
businesses Mr Speaker. It is charities. It is GPs. It is
pharmacists, it is those who transport children who have special educational needs, and it is
hospices caring for the sick and the
dying.
In this house, the Labour Party had the opportunity yesterday
and last week to stop that. But they
voted our amendments down. And we will never let their constituents
forget it. Mr Speaker, if you ramp
up taxes, if you ramp up borrowing and spending without any commensurate improvement in productivity, it leads to growing
inflation. Inflation has been increasing on this government's
watch. It means that interest rates
stay higher for longer. The Chancellor just now trumpeted the fact that they had been three interest rate cuts since the Labour
Party came to office.
She knows full well there should have been more
than that had she managed. She knows
full well... She knows full well. She knows full well that interest
rates are higher for longer because of the choices that she took. This
has led to servicing costs for our national debt which is running at
twice the defence budget. Today we have learnt from the OBR that debt
interest is to increase still further. None of this money will be
spent on public services.
It will be going down the drain. Mr Speaker,
the real black hole is not the one
the Chancellor invented. It is the
the Chancellor invented. It is the
The central problem, The central problem, the The central problem, the Chancellor is a gambler. Even with her fiscal targets, she left weighty little
headroom. It is not the truth that whilst the right honourable lady
said at the last budget that that was a once in a parliament read, she rolled the dice on a wafer thin
margin and she lost.
Reckless with her fingers crossed, she fled the
her fingers crossed, she fled the targets and she missed them.
13:16
Mr Speaker
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I'm not sure about the language
being used. I think there are better and more constructive was the shadow China would like to use. China would like to use.
13:16
Rt Hon Mel Stride MP (Central Devon, Conservative)
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Can I point out that all of her fiscal headroom disappeared, not
just some of it. To the tune of £4.1 billion. Reeling from one fiscal
event to the next is not a way to
run the public finances. Breaking
your fiscal rules to the extent the right honourable lady has in just
six months is a public humiliation.
Can I briefly focus on defence spending? We welcome the fact that
as we press the government to do, they will reach 2.5 percent of GDP
by 2027.
And we note the steppingstone along the way that the
right honourable lady has just announced. But we should go further
than that. The three percent target
should be brought forward to this Parliament. Can I ask the right honourable lady, given the
geopolitical tensions she has
raised, what provision has she made in her head room, her fiscal plans, for increasing defence spending more quickly in this Parliament if that
proves necessary? Would she scrap
proves necessary? Would she scrap
the absurd Chagos deal and put it in our Armed Forces? The economy is in a perilous state but there was a
different way, there were different choices on taxing, spending, borrowing and productivity and
welfare.
Let me just say if you words on welfare. It was the
privilege of my life to have served as a Secretary of State for Work and
Pensions. When it came to welfare reform, with that privilege came a
deep responsibility. They responsibility for welfare reform to be properly thought through with a
welfare plan. I know they do not like it because it is an alien idea
to the party opposite, so we can be there to the taxpayer but equally
fair to the many people up and down our country, some of whom are highly
vulnerable.
This was an approach on our watch that led to 5 billion of
savings across the forecast period, fewer people going onto long-term sickness and disability benefits as
a direct consequence. We would have gone further, much further. We set
out a clear plan in our manifesto to
do exactly that. But the party opposite rushed their changes, they
have no plan, there was not a single
mention of PIP payments in their
manifesto. When they got into office they did it, because it is divisive in their rank and file.
And
suddenly, when the Chancellor decided she had run out of money, out the word went to find some
savings in welfare, to young every
lever possible. And the spectacle of
what the OBR has said about the changes that were only announced
last week by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is shambolic. We have gone from incompetence to
chaos. There have been more changes
in this policy than there were at the last minute to the profile of
the honourable lady on LinkedIn.
The result is the worst of all worlds,
inadequate level of savings on welfare, with welfare costs still
spiralling ever higher. And changes that were likely to harm many
that were likely to harm many
vulnerable people. Can I ask the honourable lady, when the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions came
to the House with these changes, she did not provide an impact assessment. Was this because the OBR
had not signed off? Was it because the department did not have enough
time to produce one? Or was it only provided today, as many of us suspect, because this was thought to
be a good time to bury bad news? The forecast for growth is down, for
borrowing costs is up, inflation is
up, business confidence has been smashed in a million pieces.
This chancer constantly trying to blame
forces beyond her control. The right response is not to duck responsibility, but to build a
resilient economy. The right
honourable lady would have us believe that that is what she is doing. But how can we believe this
Chancellor? How can we trust this Chancellor? She said she would not
increase borrowing, but she did. She said she would not change fiscal rules, but she did. She said she
would not put up national insurance, but she did.
She said she would not
cut Winter Fuel Payment, but she did. She said she would not tax farmers, but she did. She said she
would not move to more than one fiscal event a year and she just
has. Now we are all paying the price of her broken promises. Today's
numbers confirm it. We are poorer
and we are weaker. To govern is to choose. This Chancellor has made all
the wrong choices.
13:22
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I know the Chancellor has not
been in this role, the shadow
Chancellor, for long. At least he is not misquoting Shakespeare today. If
this was a budget, it will be the Leader of the Opposition responding.
I'm glad she is in her place, I know she will get back to her office for her lunchtime steak soon. At the
right honourable gentleman, talks about budgets, let me remind the party opposite that the only emergency budget we have seen in
recent years was in response to the party's disastrous mini-budget.
A
mini-budget that crashed the economy, sent mortgage bills
spiralling and left a £22 billion black hole in the nation's finances.
They may have forgotten about the damage they did to our country, but
the British people never will. The
shadow Chancellor talked a lot but did not offer an alternative. He says he opposes our tax rises but
cannot tell us if you would cut the NHS to reverse them. He says he
wants economic growth but they have
stalled on the OBR reforms to
kickstart growth.
You do not change the country by sitting on the fence, you change the country by leading and taking action and that is what
this country is doing. He says he wants to talk about businesses to trade, but does not want us to talk
trade, but does not want us to talk
to the second largest economy in the world and trading partners, in the European Union. He has got no clue,
he wants to talk about growth but does not see -- say anything about
the fact the OBR has upgraded growth next year and every year afterwards.
He talks about pensioners but his
party scrapped the triple lock which we are protecting and the State Pension rising next month by over
£400 million. He talks about wages but we are boosting wages by boosting the national living wage.
The shadow Chancellor says nothing about living standards. This morning's fall in inflation because
the last Parliament was the worst on record and the OBR today revised their forecasts for family finances. Working people are always better off
with Labour. He is learning something because this time he has
answered a couple of questions.
Let me respond. He asked what the
markets made, what the markets see is we have restored their headroom
in full. The choices I made. He says it is liver of their headroom, it is
50 percent more than I inherited from the party opposite. When I was
left with a sliver of headroom, I rebuilt it after the last government
eroded it. While they left the public finances and public services Amess, we wiped the slate clean,
which means that we have the flexibility to increase defence
spending, as the leader of the Leda party -- Labour Party has done.
The party opposite had 14 years to
increase defence spending. The
shadow Chancellor mentions welfare reform and his time at the DWP, one
in eight young people not in education, employment or training. 1,000 people a day going on to Personal Independence Payments and
the OBR say today that welfare spending as a share of GDP will now start falling. A far cry from what
we had under the party opposite. The shadow Chancellor speaks about employment. The OBR say employment
will increase.
Wages will increase and living standards will increase.
What a change after 14 years of the Conservative party. The world is
changing. No one can be in any doubt about it. But the Conservative Party are stuck in the past, divided, out
of touch and carping from the sidelines. They have no plan to kickstart growth, no plan to fix our
public services, no plan to keep our country safe. The only plan for
change they are working on is to change their party leader and we cannot blame them for that.
If they
have no plan, let me remind them
about hours. The minimum wage up, real wages up, housebuilding up, NHS
real wages up, housebuilding up, NHS
investment up, investment in schools up, investment in roads up, defence
spending up. Every single one of those policies opposed by the party
opposite. Opposed by the Conservatives, opposed by reform, opposed by the SNP, opposed by the Liberal Democrats and opposed by the
Greens. It is the antigrowth
coalition in action.
They are the blockers, we are the builders, securing Britain plus my future, protecting working people and
13:28
Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )
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protecting working people and
My right honourable friend inherited a very difficult challenge when she became Chancellor of the Exchequer
became Chancellor of the Exchequer last July. She is absolutely right that the books need to balance. This
that the books need to balance. This is not other people's money you're
spending but taxpayers money, hard earned by constituents and she is right to be tough as Chancellor on this. We look forward to quizzing
her at the Treasury Select Comittee next week.
I am sure she is looking
forward to it as much as we are. The
Chancellor announced an extra 2 billion a year in capital spending and she talked about extra defence spending. Can she give more detail
about where she hopes that extra money will go?
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I thank my honourable friend for that question. I look forward to attending the Treasury Select
attending the Treasury Select Comittee next week. I was pleased to have served on the Treasury Select
have served on the Treasury Select Comittee in the past and it is a pleasure to give evidence to you. We
pleasure to give evidence to you. We set out in the spending review, the Chief Secretary will set out in the spending review the allocation of
spending review the allocation of additional capital money, I was able
additional capital money, I was able to announce £2.2 billion into defence from next year and £2 billion as a down payment to build the affordable and social housing we
need.
Two priorities of this government to get Britain building
and secure national security.
13:30
Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans, Liberal Democrat)
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The people of this country are crying out for change but they feel
they are getting more of the same. It was the Conservative Party that wrecked the public finances but we
are eight months into the new government and people are left wondering, where is the change that
was promised? The Chancellor says the world is changing, so why won't
she change course with it? The Chancellor said she wanted -- for
growth, but with her national insurance jobs tax, she shot herself in the foot before she crossed the
start line.
After the government disastrous budget, the government
had a chance today to change direction, kickstart growth and deliver small business budget. The
deliver small business budget. The
government could have scrapped the jobs tax and instead asked big banks, social media giants and online gambling companies to pay their share instead. The government
could have changed his approach to change, launching talks to boost
growth with a new trading deal with European neighbours. Instead, the government made the wrong decision
to cut public services, hit disabled people and inflict more pain on our
small businesses and high streets.
In doing so, they delivered no change and almost no growth at all.
After years of conservative mismanagement, people can see how
broken our public services are. They
cannot see a GP, a dentist, they are fighting for an education plan and they are picking up pieces of broken social care system. Everything is
broken. Nothing works. That is why people are impatient for the change
people are impatient for the change
We have to bring the welfare bill down and bring more people into work.
It's right for people and our economy, but cutting support for someone who needs help getting
dressed and washed in the morning is not just wrong. It does absolutely
nothing to support that person into work. And if anything, it does the
exact opposite. It will also have knock-on impacts for the entitlements of their family carers too. So will the Chancellor come
clean about this? If the government is serious about cutting welfare spending, it must get serious about
fixing health and social care.
So will the Chancellor speed up the
social care review and ensure that it concludes no later than the end
of this year? And in her quest to slim down the Civil Service, I wonder why the Chancellor has not
looked at the mountain of red tape created by the last government's
terrible trade deal with zero? A
whopping 2 billion extra pieces of paper have had to be completed by businesses since Brexit. Enough to wrap around the world 15 times. If
we managed to cut the red tape, we can give British businesses a tailwind, deliver far more growth
than currently predicted.
We can increase the fiscal headroom to deal with headwinds and free up precious
time and money in our Civil Service.
That would be real change. Business was promised change too, and today's statement should have been a small
business budget. We Liberal Democrats have repeatedly raised the alarm about the impending damage from the national insurance jobs tax, the bigger business rates bills
and changes to family farms and family businesses. These changes will be a hammer blow to small and family businesses leaving communities facing the prospect of
an epidemic of boarded-up shopfronts.
And there will be a hammer blow to community healthcare providers who stop our NHS from
falling over. This isn't the change
that was promised. So instead, I say again, the Chancellor should look again at much fairer way is to raise the tax revenue our public services
desperately need. By reforming capital gains tax more fairly and asking the big banks, social media
giants and the online gambling companies to pay their fair share. I
know the Chancellor must contend with President Trump's trade for
which is causing global economic turmoil, but our response to trans- bullying can be to cower in the corner and hope that he is nice to
us.
We cannot sit on our hands whilst British Steel is hit with
trams tariffs. We Liberal Democrats warmly welcomed the Chancellor's
move to raise defence spending to 2.5% of GDP. But instead of cutting the aid budget which abandons the
world's poor and damages our soft power, she should instead be covering the cost by raising the
digital services tax, handing the tap to Elon Musk and trumps other billionaire backers. At the very
least, can the Chancellor categorically rule out any reduction
in the tech tax in an attempt to appease the White House? Especially when disabled people in Britain face
eye watering cuts.
To conclude, I
have a series of questions. Will the Chancellor recognise that cutting public services that are already
stretched as a false economy? Will she accept that trying to bring down the welfare bill without fixing
Health and Social Care is a road to nowhere? Will she listen to the warnings for small and family businesses for her job tax doing
more harm good -- more harm than good? And look at fairways of raising revenue we have looked at
and take the bold action we need to grow our economy by rebutting our broken trading relationship with
Europe? -- Rebuilding.
The public were promised change. Where on earth
13:36
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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She says where is the change? Let me
She says where is the change? Let me tell her. More money into our NHS with 2 million additional appointments and waiting lists falling five months in a row. Rolling out breakfast clubs in primary schools from April this
year, increasing defence spending to protect us in a more uncertain world, additional support for carers, a living wage and the
carers, a living wage and the Employment Rights Bill so much more. That's the difference we've made in
That's the difference we've made in nine months and we've only just got started.
Now the honourable lady talks about trade. We believe in
free trade. We are a small open
trading economy and we benefit with trade links around the world. Including the single biggest trading partner, United States of America.
And it's right that we work with our allies in the United States to
ensure that that free and open trade continues. That is in our national interest and this government will
always act in our national interest. At the same time, there's going to be a summit as the honourable Eddie
knows between the UK and EU in May when we look to reset our relationship so we can see more free
trade and the better flow of trade, especially for our small businesses to be able to export around Europe.
She talks about welfare. She has not admitted that there is a single problem in the welfare system as it
exists today. I'm not willing, this party is not willing to write off one in eight young people who are
not in education, employment or training. It's why for example we have just announced this week with my right honourable friend the Education Secretary an additional 60,000 training places to train
people up in the construction industries of the future and a £1 billion package of personalised targeted support because there are many disabled people and the
honourable lady knows this were desperate to work but aren't getting the support, but neither support by
the last government.
And that's why we've said that there will be additional support for the most sick
and disabled and that personal support for getting people back into
work, and that's the right approach so we have protections for those who need it, work for those who can and
a sustainable system that is here for generations into the future. I want to take on the main point the
honourable lady makes because the honourable lady once all the money for public services but she doesn't
want to raise the taxes to pay for
them.
The tax at the moment, we spent £105 billion a year on
interest on government debt, and it seems the honourable lady would just like more of that debt. She says you
can't see a GP, can't see a dentist. While how does the honourable lady,
how the parties opposite think you pay for those things? You can't object to the tax increases and
support the money we've invested in
our public services, and to say otherwise I'm afraid is fairytales
and the magic money tree.
It does just not add up. The difference in
the side of the houses we will put money into our public services, explain comes from and ensure public finances are on a fair fitting, and that's the difference between our party and the parties opposite. party and the parties opposite.
13:38
Dr Jeevun Sandher MP (Loughborough, Labour)
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Young people in my constituency indeed across the country have an
incredibly difficult time growing up. Austerity saw their further
education budgets cut by 14%, then a pandemic, now war in Europe. So can the Chancellor please set out how
her plans to get Britain building
again will help my constituents, my young constituents get the good non-graduate jobs they need in Loughborough, Shepshed and the villagers?
13:39
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The honourable member, my honourable friend speaks powerfully
on behalf of his constituents in Loughborough. The additional homes, the 1.5 million homes that this
government is building will ensure that families in Loughborough have a
chance of getting on the housing ladder and young people in Loughborough will have the opportunities to help build those
homes. That's the difference we are making. More jobs paying decent
wages, more homes for our families.
13:39
Rt Hon John Glen MP (Salisbury, Conservative)
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I hope that the Chancellor next
Wednesday in front of the Treasury Select Committee will reiterate her commitment not to come back with
more tax increases, but could I turn to the OBR page 5, 1.2 where it says
while the government is planning reforms deliver a modest boost to the level of potential output of
0.2% in 2029, its cumulative growth
between 2023 to 20 and 29 is still half a percentage point lower than projected in October, and the level
of productivity is 1% lower.
I'd
like to know what the Chancellor thinks about that, and can she confirm that the Employment Rights Bill has not been evaluated by the
OBR?
13:40
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The key point the right honourable gentleman says there is
honourable gentleman says there is
that from 2023 to the end of the forecast? If growth is lower. But of course this government in coming to
power in 2023. We came into power in July 2024 and for the OBR numbers show that the economy is bigger because of the changes we have made.
It's just a difference of the dates. Now I look forward to coming to the
Select Committee next week, and I'm sure I will take more questions from the honourable gentleman then.
the honourable gentleman then.
13:41
Yuan Yang MP (Earley and Woodley, Labour)
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The Chancellor has rightly championed economic stability in
stark contrast to the previous government. Indeed in stark contrast to the previous five chancellors.
Yet as she said, God is becoming more unstable, and that global instability feeds through to rapid changes in official projections which can constrain our room for
action. The Chancellor reaffirmed to us that despite these challenges, she will keep her focus on fiscal stability to meet the long-term
missions of this government, to defend our country, to improve living standards and to protect the most vulnerable in our society? most vulnerable in our society?
13:41
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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My Lords offer is absolutely right that her constituents, all of
our constituents depend on economic stability. It ensures they know how much they are going to pay on their rent and mortgages, ensures they are
not caught out when they go to the shops by prices constantly rising, and that's why as a government we said to grow our economy the number
one thing we need to achieve is economic stability, and that's why
am so pleased the Bank of England have been able to cut interest rates three times since the general
election, and also that the OBR forecast inflation will full rapidly
to 2.1% next year and then 2% in the years after that.
years after that.
13:42
Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)
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Schools face imminently a huge rise in cost due to the rise in National Insurance contributions,
National Insurance contributions,
and they had been reassured by the government the head teachers have been reassured that the schools will be recompensed with money to cover the national insurance cost, yet so
Robert Parsons: My constituency, a great school by the sell £33,000 short. Will the Chancellor commit to
ensuring indeed all the schools in my constituency are given enough money to cover her jobs tax?
13:42
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Public services including schools have been compensated for the increase in national insurance, and
I've... Happy to get in touch with me or the Education Secretary to set out the case of that school, but the
only reason we've been able to put record investment into our schools is because the stability returned to our economy, including the tax increases we had to bring forward
last year to provide that extra money for our public services including schools and the honourable lady's constituency.
13:43
Debbie Abrahams MP (Oldham East and Saddleworth, Labour)
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I recognise the difficulties my
right honourable friend is facing in terms of fiscal challenges and so
on. That she inherited. And also support the reforms of my right
honourable friend the pensions secretary has set out, but all the evidence is pointing to the fact
that the cuts to health and disability benefits will lead to
increased poverty, including severe poverty and worsened health conditions as well, so how will
making people sicker and poorer help in terms of driving our economy up
and people into jobs?
13:43
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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As my honourable friend knows, in
the Green Paper we are consulting on a premium payment for the most severely sick and disabled because as a government, we believe that
those people who need support should get it. I like the honourable lady,
I recognise there are many people who are sick and disabled. Many young people who could be working
but were written off by the previous government and that's why we are putting record investment in helping get those people back to work with
guaranteed personalised and targeted to support, and you are half as likely to be in poverty if you are
working, if you move from welfare into work, and we are determined to lift people out of poverty by ensuring that there are good jobs
paying decent wages with security that's guaranteed to the Employment Rights Bill.
13:44
Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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The OBR have said that the package of welfare cuts, the
information received was like in
sufficient detail and the estimates are highly uncertain. They say they will now have to certify them in the next forecast. So can the Chancellor confirm whether that means that the
government may have to go further with even deeper cuts to welfare than they have announced so far today? today?
13:45
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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What the OBR have done is they have not taken into account any of
the package of measures to get people back into work or looked any
behavioural effects of people making that switch into work, and what they've said in the document is that
they are now going to spend the summer looking at the entirety of the package, including the efforts
we are making with a huge package to get people back into work. I'm
confident that the personalised targeted support will get more people into work, lift them out of poverty so they can support their families and as an economy we can
13:46
Rachael Maskell MP (York Central, Labour )
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Is there fiscal responsibility,
unlike in the last administration, will help with the pay gap but Labour have the additional social responsibility, so can you look at
responsibility, so can you look at the DWP changes again, of course protecting the most vulnerable but
13:46
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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protecting the most vulnerable but also the people who are set to lose,
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and we are worried about that. I thank her for that and I share
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank her for that and I share the deep concern that all of us have at this side of the House, and I think everyone in the chamber once
think everyone in the chamber once everyone who is sick and disabled to have the support and that is why we are deciding on an additional
premium payment to those who are severely disabled. Also, instead of not providing the support that they need to do a job that matches their
need to do a job that matches their abilities and needs, we are giving them targeted support and I was in
them targeted support and I was in Jobcentre in my own constituency where there were amazing stories of people being helped into work you
are far from the Labour market and we want to see more of that.
we want to see more of that.
13:46
Dame Harriett Baldwin MP (West Worcestershire, Conservative)
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At the general election, the
Chancellor promised growth and no increase in taxes. As Chancellor,
she has delivered no growth and
record increases in tax and the Office for Budget Responsibility is
now reducing the growth forecast by half and, more worryingly, they are
forecasting a reduction in over 1% in productivity growth. Why does she
think that is?
13:47
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I have huge respect for her but
the question does not do her justice and if you start in 2023, cumulative
growth is lower part of the general election to place in 2024. The
economy is bigger at the end of this Parliament that the previous will be
our forecast. Those are the numbers, the facts, the difference this government is making. government is making.
13:48
Ruth Cadbury MP (Brentford and Isleworth, Labour)
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I congratulate the Chancellor on
an excellent statement which addresses the challenge she was left
with by the last government. To drive growth across the UK, heavy and light rail infrastructure is
badly needed. What work is the Chancellor doing to develop new
models of funding in order to deliver the important projects.
13:48
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for the question and one reason there is
an additional £13 billion being put into capital spending is that we can invest in the infrastructure the
country needs including in transport infrastructure which I now the
honourable lady has a keen interest in as chair of the Select Committee.
We have to look at leveraging private sector funding for a range of projects including the Lower Thames crossing.
13:48
Chris Coghlan MP (Dorking and Horley, Liberal Democrat)
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I declare my interest as a member
of the business school in London and
there was a specific paper on using Defence spending to boost economic
growth and I was delighted that was evaluated by the Professor is part
of the Spring Statement and they have listened to me and the Liberal
Democrats the Chancellor agree that this could be one way to keep us safe and raise productivity and boost economic growth.
13:49
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Thank you for the question and I look forward to taking more
questions from the honourable gentleman at the Select Committee
next week. When I visit Defence companies and the Armed Forces Day
tell me of the ability of new technology and innovation to help them do their jobs better in keeping
the country safe so as we invest
more and get to that 2.5% of GDP it is right that more money is used for innovation, research and development, new technologies.
development, new technologies.
13:50
Dr Zubir Ahmed MP (Glasgow South West, Labour)
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I congratulate my right honourable friend and grasping the challenges and opportunities the
numeral present as and that means in my constituency there will be more
investment into defence and that is timely because after 18 years of the
SNP government, one in six people in
my constituency are economically inactive. Does my honourable friend agree this will finally raise ambitions and pay packets?
13:50
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Unlike the SNP, Labour supports
investment and jobs in the defence sector in Scotland to support people
in Glasgow South-West and across Scotland with more jobs for young
people, keeping the country safe and
people, keeping the country safe and that is what the party believes in and it is a shame the SNP believes in something entirely different.
in something entirely different.
13:51
Martin Vickers MP (Brigg and Immingham, Conservative)
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There is a trial in North Lincolnshire and there is the potential of job losses at the steelworks. In view of that, could
the Chancellor assure us funding will be available for redundant workers and to attract new business
and to give training for workers? and to give training for workers?
13:51
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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We set out our plan for a steal
fund as part of the general election and I agree about the future of the
steel industry in this country and be improved the deal and protected
be improved the deal and protected
more jobs in South Wales only what a thriving steel sector across the UK and we will continue to work with the company and the trade unions to
achieve just that. achieve just that.
13:52
Richard Burgon MP (Leeds East, Labour)
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Making cuts instead of taxing wealth is a political choice and
Payments from many disabled people is a cruel choice. People who cannot
cut up their own food without assistance and cannot go to the toilet without assistance and cannot wash themselves without assistance they will lose PIP mark.-the
government on this taken the easy option of taking, cutting support
for disabled people rather than the
13:53
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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braver option to tackle this by
braver option to tackle this by taxing the wealthiest with a wealth tax. Speak their is nothing
tax. Speak their is nothing progressive nor labour -- Labour on
progressive nor labour -- Labour on doing that and one in eight have been effectively written off by the
party opposite and we will not leave them in that position and we are
them in that position and we are consulting on an additional premium to pay to the most sick and disabled and we recognise that people need
support from the state and too many people are not given the opportunity to fulfil potential and not willing
to carry on like that but in the budget last year we got rid of the
non-dom tax status, introduced VAT
13:53
Dave Doogan MP (Angus and Perthshire Glens, Scottish National Party)
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tax, change laws for private schools, so I do not recognise what he says stops becoming the
he says stops becoming the Chancellor tells us the world has
Chancellor tells us the world has changed and if that means you can now stick the boot into disabled people, it might also be time for a
people, it might also be time for a review on interest tax rates. The Scottish economy has grown for the UK economy has retracted and she
UK economy has retracted and she could choose to revise the position on reaccessing the European Union
on reaccessing the European Union single market which would allow a return of £30 million with no compensation or a 1% tax on assets
of £10 million, or a wealth tax, as highlighted by the backbenches with
no need for competition.
If she has
got the WASPI women, pensioners in
got the WASPI women, pensioners in her sights, why can she not look to multimillionaires for a few quid?
multimillionaires for a few quid? Speak about the world has changed and that despite the offence is more important and it is astonishing the SNP continue to oppose the nuclear deterrent.
13:54
Preet Kaur Gill MP (Birmingham Edgbaston, Labour )
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I commend the Chancellor on the
statement. Does she agree that the party opposite does not understand
the link between the total to get the houses infrastructure Bill constituents want the economic constraints we are facing today?
13:54
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for the question and she speaks
powerfully on behalf of her Birmingham constituents. We need to build the homes at all of our constituents are crying out for and that level of homeownership has
declined under the past government and we are determined to turn it
around as well as the affordable and social housing the country needs being built and as we do that, more
good jobs for young people to have pride in the book with good jobs paying decent wages backed by increases in the national living
wage and the Employment Rights Bill.
wage and the Employment Rights Bill.
13:55
Rt Hon James Cleverly MP (Braintree, Conservative)
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Transport Secretary did not stand up to transport unions and the Health Secretary failed to stand up
to the health unions and the work and pensions secretary will not stand up to the backbenches of their own party. How can we have any
confidence that she or the Prime Minister will stand up to civil service unions?
13:55
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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As part of the transformations packed today we set aside £150
million for redundancy costs for voluntary exit to show how serious we are about reducing the size of the civil service after it increased
to record levels under the party opposite. opposite.
13:56
Michelle Scrogham MP (Barrow and Furness, Labour)
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Communities in Barrow in Furness
are feeling the fielders of the
previous government. They have left Barrow in Furness in a dreadful state. Does the Chancellor agree that it is through the commitment of
this government and the funding and the Defence sector that we will
change things transformation lay on
the ground and this could be a blueprint for how the Defence pounds could be better spent across constituencies?
constituencies?
13:56
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I know that my honourable friend is proud to represent Barrow in Furness and her constituents are
proud to work on the nuclear deterrent and the government will always stand with them with the new plans for new investment in Barrow
in Furness so we get more investment and ensure the national security of the country. the country.
13:57
Rt Hon Sir John Hayes MP (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
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The Chancellor was right to highlight productivity as an issue
and focusing on skills shortages and noting the implicit link where but
she failed to say productivity and
patience are being scaled back and the number that she noted is
growing. Will she set out in a statement how much she expects
apprenticeships to work year on
year. It reached the highest level in modern times recently and so we must grow apprenticeships to make skills to grow productivity.
If she
does not do that, we will feel that hope exceeds expectation.
13:57
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank the honourable gentleman
for the question and he speaks powerfully about something he was a
huge amount about. First of all, the OTR device the activity in the forecast. -- OBR. Secondly, it is a massive problem with one in eight
young people and the OBR have not
taken into account the impact of the back to work program. They will work on that over the summer with the DWP
and Treasury. We want to decide in such a way to get as many people back to work and contributing to the economy and society.
We announced a
couple of weeks ago the National apprenticeship week which is an
expansion, particularly with probation apprentices, relaxing
requirements on maths and English because to build the homes we need, we must get people to construction jobs rather than talk about getting
a grade C in maths and English. That
is why we have to get more people with the skills that they need to contribute to the economy because we want those numbers going up.
13:59
Johanna Baxter MP (Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Labour)
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Joanna Baxter, followed by Steven Darling.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Fiscal rules were designed to ensure we did not repeat the damaging austerity of the party opposite which constituents so much.
opposite which constituents so much. Does my right honourable friend the grey it is only because of physical bills the OBR have confirmed people in Paisley and Renfrewshire will be
13:59
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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in Paisley and Renfrewshire will be on average £500 a year better off with this Labour government?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
To ensure people are better off, Two control inflation and that is why stability is important and bringing their interest rates at the Bank of England have cut them three
Bank of England have cut them three times since the election and also to boost wages, which we are beginning to see with real wages growing at twice the rate of inflation and that
twice the rate of inflation and that benefits constituents in the constituency of my honourable friend
14:00
Steve Darling MP (Torbay, Liberal Democrat)
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and the OBR today revised this per person by £500.
person by £500.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Today and last week the Chancellor rushed through severe
Chancellor rushed through severe cuts to the benefit system that will fit some of the most vulnerable in our society. Whilst we should have
our society. Whilst we should have considered benefit reform, this is ill-conceived. Can the Chancellor explain to the chamber why she is
explain to the chamber why she is choosing to balance the books of the mission on some of the most, off the
14:00
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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mission on some of the most, off the back of some of the most vulnerable
back of some of the most vulnerable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I think everyone in the I think everyone in the country can see the welfare system is just not working. We have one in a jungle not in education employment or training, 1000 people going into
training, 1000 people going into personal Independence payments every single day, we can't carry on like
single day, we can't carry on like this. The basic principles of this government is that people who need support should be protected. Those who can work should work and we will support them personalised targeted
support them personalised targeted support, and that we need a system that is sustainable.
That's what the reforms set out by my right honourable friend work and pensions
honourable friend work and pensions secretary delivered last week alongside the Green Paper where there will be further consultation
14:01
Imran Hussain MP (Bradford East, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
to make sure those with the most severe need to get the additional support that they are vitally entitled to. We have another 45 minutes. If
**** Possible New Speaker ****
questions assure more members will get in. Thank you. It's absolutely right
the party opposite devastated our communities and left us with billions of pounds of debt. But it
billions of pounds of debt. But it is not right that disabled people who are the most vulnerable in our
society should pay for that. Thousands of my constituents continue to be fearful about the
continue to be fearful about the announced welfare cost, disability organisations have warned that hundreds of thousands will be pushed
hundreds of thousands will be pushed into poverty, so I say to the Chancellor, we must make the right
political choice, protect the most vulnerable in society and introduce a wealth tax so that
multimillionaires and billionaires can pay their fair share.
14:02
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Europe sensor constituency the neighbours mine and he knows and I know there are far too many people
in both of our constituency, in Leeds and Bradford who are written off, people who are not working who
are quite capable of working if they were given the support. People who may be disabled, doesn't mean they can't work and contribute if they are given the proper support. That's
what the party opposite failed to do. That's what our government are
determined to deliver command we will work with disabled groups, work with job centres including the one in Pudsey where I was last week to make sure we support people to
fulfil their potential, not writing them off the party opposite it.
14:02
Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)
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I welcome the Chancellor's
emphasis on defence expenditure and the support for the nuclear deterrent, but does she accept by
his actions in Ukraine, Putin has
restarted the Cold War? And will she bear in mind that during the 1980s
up to the end of the Cold War, we were spending regularly between 4.5
and 5% of GDP on defence. That's the sort of scale that is really required.
14:03
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The honourable Jevon has long been an advocate of spending properly on defence, and that's why
we set out a fully funded and costed plan to get 2.5% in the next two
years and 3% in the next Parliament. The bot has changed. We could see
that all around us. This government will always put our national security and defence first, and as the situation evolves, of course so
will we.
14:03
Andy McDonald MP (Middlesbrough and Thornaby East, Labour)
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I think the Chancellor for her statement. She is absolutely right to highlight stimulus the Employment
Rights Bill will bring to our economy, but I respectfully say to her that the impact of the cuts to welfare payments will reduce the
incomes of some of the poorest constituents in my Middlesbrough and Thornaby East constituency, and that
contrast with the easy ride the very wealthy get from low margins of tax
on their assets and gains that my constituents phase through income
tax.
What indeed has changed since she settled her fiscal rules, so will the Chancellor consider putting
capital gains tax on an equal
footing with income tax or implementing a wealth tax which is a 2% rate on assets worth over £10 million to improve the country's
finances?
14:04
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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At the budget last autumn will
increase taxes by 40 billon pounds without asking working people to pay more. We did that by abolishing the
noncontact status, by increasing the rate of capital gains tax, tightening the rules around inheritance tax and by asking businesses to pay more as well. So
we formerly raised taxes to put more money into our health service,
reduce NHS waiting lists and have free breakfast clubs at primary schools, but what the Spring
Statement shows today as the by growing our economy we can increase the size of the economy through the planning reforms and therefore ensure there is more money for our
public services.
That's why the number one priority of this
government is growth and why am so pleased today that the OBR say that by the end of this Parliament the economy will be bigger than that we
inherited from the Conservatives. inherited from the Conservatives.
14:05
Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)
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The Chancellor's claim today that she is building a foundation on the
foundations for the economy, but sadly the foundations are foundations of sand built on increased borrowing, high inflation,
lower growth, jobs taxes et cetera.
Can she tell us how these structures will stand against the economic forces which are coming to effect
the United Kingdom as she has described today, and specifically
could you tell us what proportion of the transformation fund will be
available to the Northern Ireland Executive for important transformation of public services in Northern Ireland?
14:06
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank the honourable gentleman for that question. The OBR are
really clear that the economy at the end of this Parliament will be bigger than they previously
envisaged, bigger than the plans we inherited from the previous government, and the average person with real household disposable
income will see their incomes rise
by £500. So we are already beginning to deliver the change we promised. In the budget last year I was able
to announce the biggest ever settlements for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
There continues to be the case after the Spring Statement today.
14:06
John Grady MP (Glasgow East, Labour)
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Reckless management of public finances leads to higher costs of
government borrowing. And as any economist will tell you, that
increases the cost of capital across the British economy, putting at risk
and increasing risk cost of
essential investment in housing infrastructure. With my right honourable friend agreed this is a very important reason why is essential to manage public funds
carefully? Unlike the last Conservative government. And unlike the government in Scotland, which is
overfamiliar with emergency budgets.
14:07
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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My Lords is absolutely right. The
importance of a robust fiscal rules that even in difficult economic
circumstances we continue to meet through the decisions that I've set out today. And the recently coming
stability is so important is that we saw what happened in the last Parliament where a government borrowed beyond its means and the
people who lost out were not the wealthy, it was ordinary working
people who paid more in the shops and more on their mortgages and more on their rents.
This government will
never repeat the mistakes of Liz
never repeat the mistakes of Liz
14:08
Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)
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The Chancellor has created a storm and is now complaining about the rain. She increased spending to 70 billion, increased borrowing by
70 billion, increased tax by 40 billion and yet the economy shrank in January. She did talk about change and the abolition of NHS England. I put a written questions
into the department to say how much would this cost? They said there would be some upfront cost but couldn't specify, so with this top-
down change, to determine what the estimated cost is of abolishing NHS England?
14:08
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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It's really difficult to understand what the party opposite
one. Do they want to reduce the cost of admin and bureaucracy what they
want to carry on with everything the way it was? We want to change things, and that's why in the transformation fund are set out today includes £150 million through
voluntary exit scheme because we want more money on the frontline, not in a back office and a bloated bureaucracy left by the party
opposite. opposite.
14:09
Rebecca Long Bailey MP (Salford, Labour)
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The research to welcome in today's statement, but the Chancellor will be aware of serious concerns regarding welfare reform,
and my constituent told me last week
and terrified of what will happen to me if I can't work. I'm already having thoughts of suicide at the prospect of these changes and what
they mean for disabled people. Today's impact assessment shows 250,000 increase in relative
poverty, 50,000 increase in children living in relative poverty. What the
Chancellor do to stop this from happening?
14:09
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The honourable lady speaks about
her constituent who is in work, and she sure like others will welcome the work that Charlie Meikle has
done about ensuring that people with
sickness and disability can stay white because we know the best place
As As in As in work. As in work. We As in work. We know As in work. We know when As in work. We know when people As in work. We know when people drop out of the labour market, they
out of the labour market, they struggle to get back in.
So alongside the targeted support to get people back in work we are determined to work with businesses to ensure more people with sickness to ensure more people with sickness and disability can stay in work, contributing to their family finances and contributing to the wider economy.
14:10
Nigel Farage MP (Clacton, Reform UK)
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With the Chancellor agree that measuring growth and relative wealth by GDP is not the most relevant
number to our constituents? Because we are living in an age of mass immigration and the rising
population, it is GDP per capita surely that matters to our constituents, and that has fallen
consistently for the last two years and is falling still. Shouldn't we tell people actually they are
getting poorer? getting poorer?
14:10
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The OBR forecast GDP per capita will increase by 5.6% during the
course of this Parliament. Having fallen under the previous government, so if he ever gets eclectic he could tell his
constituents that.
14:11
Matthew Patrick MP (Wirral West, Labour)
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... Three blue pounds into a transmission fund disorder how government is run. Does the
Chancellor agree with me this is reform the Tories ducked, should
have done it, didn't do it and actually their failure to address this put pressure on front line services and stretched public finances? finances?
14:11
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The transmission fund with 3.25 with £3.25 is about trying to reduce
costs further out the cost of failure, so that's why we are putting more money into recruiting
foster carers because we want to make sure more children can get the best possible start in life but we also know the children end up in
poor quality children's homes that has consequences not just for their
lives but also for other services later in life. It's also why we are putting more money into technology
in the probation service so that we can make sure that probation works are better of rehabilitating
offenders but also ensuring that people pay for the crimes they commit.
14:12
Alberto Costa MP (South Leicestershire, Conservative)
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The Chancellor rightly reminded
this House in her statement that the British public are watching. And among the British public watching
are tens of thousands of the most vulnerable pensioners in our
society. Can she explain to the House what is Labour about removing
the Winter Fuel Payment from those
having £13.5 thousand a year?
14:12
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Next month because of the triple
lock which we've been able to protect, the basic state pension, new state pension will increase by
more than £400. And during the course of this parliament because of the triple lock which the Shadow Chancellor opposes, the triple lock
£31 billion, so that's the protection we are giving to pensioners as well as record investment into our NHS which of course older people use with greater frequency than anyone else.
14:13
Zarah Sultana MP (Coventry South, Independent)
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UK is the sixth richest country in the world yet over one in three children and 25% of adults live in
poverty. Since Labour came to power, 25,000 children have been pushed into poverty due to the two-child
benefit cap and now according to the governance and impact assessment over 250,000 people will be pushed into poverty as a result of these cuts, including 50,000 children. So
as the Chancellor who earns over £150,000 annually has accepted £7500
worth of free clothing and recently took freebie tickets to see Sabrina
Carpenter, does she think austerity 2.0 is the change people really voted for?
14:13
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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There's nothing progressive, nothing Labour about pouring more
money into a broken system. Under
the changes we are bringing about, will help young people not in education employment or training by giving them targeted support commanders are set out in the statement earlier, the OBR so far
have not scored any of the back to work program which is the biggest back to work program we've seen the
many many years. They come to do that work over the autumn, but we know that the best way to lift people out of poverty is to get them
into good work, secure work, paying a decent wage.
Increasing the National Living Wage by £1400 for someone working full-time for next
month as well as the Employment Rights Bill which ensures people have security at work. That's the
difference this Labour government is making. making.
14:14
Adrian Ramsay MP (Waveney Valley, Green Party)
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The Chancellor knows that our economy has been driven to the edge over the last 15 years. With
ordinary people forced to bear the burden while a small minority have
amassed extreme wealth. This is something she could change. And her own backbenchers are lining up to
argue for a wealth tax. So why won't she do the fair and right thing and
introduce a tax on the very wealthiest, rather than lodging austerity 2.0 and removing vital
support from disabled and ill people?
14:15
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The best thing we could do for
our constituents is built the homes they desperately need, so I really have no understanding of why the Green Party voted against the
planning and infrastructure bill this week. What have they got against families getting homes and
young people getting jobs?
14:15
Amanda Martin MP (Portsmouth North, Labour)
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Today's defence announcement right honourable friend the Chancellor is fantastic news for my
city and deliver security for working people across the country and Simmons Portsmouth is not just
an historic home of the Royal Navy but the future home. Disagree with me that after 14 years of the benches opposite decimating all
areas of our armed service, imposing three Portsmouth ministers on my
city, and axing shipbuilding from our city, it has fallen to this government to once again fix the
mess inherited by you...
By the people over there. Almost said you
Securing the naval base operation Securing the naval base operation and those serving the country for the future.
14:16
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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My honourable friend as a proud
advocate for Portsmouth and this government is, too. That is why we have put investment into the naval
base in the Spring Statement today.
As we grow what we spent on Defence to keep the country safe and secure, we want to make sure there are more
good jobs being good wages to make as an industrial superpower.
14:16
Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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The Chancellor could have taken
action to reverse the damage she has done to constituents and businesses
in my constituency and beyond but she has failed. What is she saying to pensioners, farmers, businesses,
charities, hospices, all the hard- charities, hospices, all the hard- working people who face the huge tax rises?
14:17
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I inherited £22 billion of that
when I became Chancellor, a black hole left by the party opposite. We are taking action to address the
hole and I would say to the honourable Lydia's constituents --
right honourable lady's constituents, they are now going to
see a doctor or nurse quicker because NHS waiting list have fallen for five months in a row.
14:17
John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)
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Does my right honourable friend
agree that the main contrast between this and the last government is strength versus weakness? They were
too weak to crack down on wasteful
spending, too big to address tax breaks and loopholes for the wealthy, and too weak to take on the
planning system. Does she agree that as the party of vested interests
opposite seeks to conserve what has failed it will take this labour
government to have the strength to take the long-term decisions to build a better and fairer Britain.
build a better and fairer Britain.
14:18
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The OBR have scored some of the
planning measures we have taken which will mean the economy is £6.8
million bigger by the end of the Parliament and will contribute to public finances and public services.
That is possible because we are taking on the vested interests and getting Britain building, tucking
the builders, not the blockers. We
are looking at increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP. The Tories
had 14 years and failed to do that and we've done it in the first year of government.
of government.
14:18
Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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Heartbreakingly last week the hospice in my constituency announced
many redundancy and cited the
National Insurance increase as a reason. I have spoken to someone from a school who face similar issues thanks to costs from a catering supplier been passed on to
them. Can be Chancellor confirm that she will not increase the digital
services tax to fund the reverse. I will those organisations be funded in the great work that they do?
14:19
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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At the Budget, we set out tax increases on the wealthiest and businesses to properly fund public
services and so when the constituents in Eastbourne get to
see a doctor or nurse quicker, benefit from the breakfast club, it is because we had the money to do so
is because we had the money to do so
and so you cannot back increases in investment for public services if you oppose the money to pay for it
including the settlement for the hospice.
hospice.
14:20
Nadia Whittome MP (Nottingham East, Labour)
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I understand this party has inherited a huge mess caused by the
party opposite because of austerity but what is the justification for
cutting disability benefits when one third of disabled people are in poverty, instead of choosing to tax
the growing risk of the superrich,
for example, a tax of 2% on assets that could raise £20 billion. that could raise £20 billion.
14:20
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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We set out £40 billion of tax
increases at the Budget including non-dom pack status, capital gains, private schools, rules around
inheritance tax. We did this to invest in public services and skills and be thrifty Defence spending to
2.5% of GDP and on welfare spending,
there's nothing progressive about writing of a generation of young
people and that is why the targeted support will lift young people out of work and help them contribute to family finances and the finances of
the nation.
14:21
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The honourable lady talks about financial responsibility. Could she
please tell us that when the government yields have the highest
level, who was chancellor of the exchequer and if she needs a clue, we can bring her a mirror. we can bring her a mirror.
14:21
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank the honourable lady for the question and if you look at the financial markets and follow them
closely, you can see the increase in bond yields in France and Germany
have closely tracked each other and the instability has affected
countries around the world and that is why it is important to continue to meet the rules as I have
discussed today.
discussed today.
14:22
Sam Rushworth MP (Bishop Auckland, Labour)
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the Member for Clarkson mentioned GDP and I can see he's asked his
question and run away but it only increased by 4.3% in the last 16
years compared to 46% in the years prior. What matters to my constituents is not the growth but
the growth that they can feel in their pockets in the towns and villages that have been left behind. What can she do to make sure that
working people feel the growth? working people feel the growth?
14:22
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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This government wants constituents across the country to feel the benefits of the growth with
good jobs paying decent wages in all
parts of the country and that is why we are increasing the National Living Wage, making work pay, and
backing builders, not blockers, to create new transport infrastructure and energy infrastructure and that
is why that, compared to plans we inherited, disposable income per
inherited, disposable income per
person is set to rise by £500 by the end of Parliament, showing the
14:23
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(SPEAKS WELSH) . Also, looking at the large public sector workforce compared to the UK
14:24
Llinos Medi MP (Ynys Môn, Plaid Cymru)
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They were affected by the cruel cuts
14:24
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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and all of this damage by self- impose fiscal rules, there have been five major changes to fiscal rules since 1997 saw will be Chancellor change them so she does not cause further austerity. In the budget
further austerity. In the budget last year, we provided the biggest ever settlement for the Welsh
ever settlement for the Welsh government but Plaid Cymru voted
14:24
Ms Polly Billington MP (East Thanet, Labour)
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government but Plaid Cymru voted against it. I don't understand why the honourable member does not want the money to go to her constituents
the money to go to her constituents in Wales. I thank her for her statement and the recognition of the excellent work of the labour-run
council in Funding. The recent planning changes mean homes for
people and also close. Can she confirm the OBR has only scored the effect of the policy framework
changes are not the upcoming Planning And Infrastructure Bill? Planning And Infrastructure Bill?
14:24
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for the statement and was pleased to
note that they have come forward with plans to build affordable
housing as part of the plan for affordable housing which I set out more money for in this statement
today and I would say that the parties opposite who abstain and
vote against the planning Bill are voting against homes for
constituents, jobs for young people, and on this side of the House, will
be back the builders not the lockers and back opportunities for young people and housing for constituents
and so it is a shame that the parties opposite do not do the same.
parties opposite do not do the same.
14:25
Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)
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The Chancellor claimed growth was a top priority and has taken the
fastest growing economy in the G7 and brought it to a shuddering halt. She promised no tax rises but the
job tax next week will put tax rises on ordinary working people as she cut the housing numbers 200,000 today and put our borrowing by £18
billion in the next two years, £18
billion. Is it not time the Prime Minister invited the Chancellor next door and said, "Rachel, you are fired." fired."
14:26
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The plans we inherited from the previous government saw the OECD
forecast the slowest growth this year and it is now forecast to be
the second highest and that is the difference the government is making, moving us up the league table. moving us up the league table.
14:26
David Burton-Sampson MP (Southend West and Leigh, Labour)
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I thank the Chancellor and her team for the prudent work they are
doing to restore stability to the
economy and on top of this, figures show wages are increasing and my
constituency under this Labour Government and inflation is falling. Does my right honourable friend
agree that this alongside the new
living wage, worth £1400 a year, will make work pay and lift more will make work pay and lift more people out of poverty?
14:26
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I was pleased last year that I was able to announce an increase of 6.7% in the National Living Wage as well
as a record increase in the minimum
wage. That will help to lift working families out of poverty alongside the Employment Rights Bill which will secure greater security for
those who go out to work.
14:27
Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)
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Growth is not on the lips of farmers whose confidence is at a low following the family farm tax and
abrupt closure is unknown there are possible cuts to reduce the farming
possible cuts to reduce the farming
budget further and there is the risk of a failed crop putting the farm
further into debt. Following the spending review, the government is
still committed to championing
still committed to championing British farming while protecting the environment. environment.
14:28
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Plans were left the previous government and they did not even use
the farming budget and so we are determined to give farmers the support that they need. support that they need.
14:28
Nesil Caliskan MP (Barking, Labour)
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I represent a constituency with
some of the highest deprivation figures in the country and 20% of working adults have no
qualifications whatsoever and so does she agree that only through
getting the qualifications she needs and creating jobs can be ever
improve life chances?
14:28
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for that question. She speaks
passionately about expanding
opportunities in parking and the changes to the levies are about
making sure more people can access those course fees and that is why we
were able to announce additional places on construction courses to
14:29
David Reed MP (Exmouth and Exeter East, Conservative)
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places on construction courses to
help people get jobs that pay a good wage and that is what this government is all about. Speak about given the Chancellor chose not to
given the Chancellor chose not to mention Chagos in the statement and not to answer the question, can the
not to answer the question, can the House assume this disaster this deal will not go ahead and more
14:29
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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will not go ahead and more importantly that the UK taxpayer will not foot the bill?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
will not foot the bill? Our Prime Minister and President
Trump discuss the issues Randy --
when the Prime Minister was at the White House and we will continue to work on that and operate from that
important base. important base.
14:30
Neil Duncan-Jordan MP (Poole, Labour)
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.1 .14 in the OBR report outlines
plan cuts will reduce PIP for
800,000 climates and cut health- related Universal Credit for 3
14:30
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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million families. Is it not time that we ask those with the broadest shoulders to carry the heaviest
shoulders to carry the heaviest burden rather than the poorest in society? Speak I thank my honourable friend for the question. I've
friend for the question. I've already set out that the OBR in the
already set out that the OBR in the numbers, I do not assume any changes in terms of people going back to work and that is what we will work on with the OBR, DWP, Treasury over
on with the OBR, DWP, Treasury over the summer to develop those plans to ensure that people are not worse off
but actually better off so they can progress into jobs that suit their
abilities and needs because we want more people to have the fulfilment of a good job with security, but
of a good job with security, but
14:30
Alex Brewer MP (North East Hampshire, Liberal Democrat)
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In a statement with significant problems, I do welcome the Chancellor's commitment to better military homes. Which the Liberal
Democrats have been calling for. All
the Chancellor clarify how much, but when, and will this include RAF
Odiham in my constituency of North East Hampshire, or is it just for those constituencies she listed
which happened to have Labour MPs?
14:31
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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We support military families wherever they are based in the
United Kingdom. And we will set up more detail in the spending review
in June. But already in the last few months, we have taken back into the
Homes that were previously contracted out to the private sector so we can make improvements to
military accommodations for top something and I will be welcomed in her constituency and by military
her constituency and by military
14:32
Sarah Coombes MP (West Bromwich, Labour)
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Might constituents in Westbourne card and pay the taxes and they want to know that the government treats
that money with respect. I'm glad we finally have a Chancellor who has been careful with every pound of taxpayers money so we can invest in
the NHS, which has seen a 10% cut in the waiting list in my area. Can the Chancellor set out how she is drawing a line under the wasting chaos of the previous government and chaos of the previous government and finally putting our public finances back on a stable footing?
14:32
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my Noble Friend for that
question and she speaks powerfully on behalf of their constituents and ensuring the people of West Bromwich get a good deal from the public services and value for money when
they pay their taxes. There was too much waste under the previous government and that was exemplified during the pandemic when similar
contracts went to friends and
donors. That's why we appointed a covert corruption minister because we want the money back in our public services, not in the hands of Tory friends and donors.
friends and donors.
14:32
Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP (Islington North, Independent)
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Thank you. There are 4.3 million children living in poverty in our society. There are 1.2 million
people in receipt of PIP who are
about to lose it following her statement last week. She's put a
huge amount of money into defence. Could you not think for a moment of reversing the decision last week to take 5 billion out of the welfare
budget and end the two-child benefit cap which is driven so many Children and Families Act to really desperate
poverty?
14:33
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I'm not going to make any apologies for putting more money in defence. This Labour government takes defence of our country seriously and so we should. We are
the party that created NATO and under the leadership of the Labour Party today we will always defend our country.
14:33
David Pinto-Duschinsky MP (Hendon, Labour)
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Can I congratulate my right honourable friend on her statement
and in her action to end austerity,
investing £26 billion in the NHS, 3 billion in education, raising defence budgets and unleashing over 100 billion of additional capital investment to build the foundations
of our economy? On the day after this government voted through a pay rise to 3 million working people by raising the minimum wage, does she agree with me that it's only by
making the tough decision to restore stability and by pushing ahead with the government's bold plans for
reform that we can prepare the terrible damage done by the party opposite, deliver strong public services and get more money in
people's pockets?
14:34
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for the question, and also all the work
he is doing to back growth and to improve living standards for working people. I was pleased in the Spring
Statement today to announce £13 billion extra during the course of this Parliament the capital spending
because we know that the easy choice of the previous government was to
always cut capital spending, which is why we are in the mess today that we are because of the deterioration
of infrastructure.
We won't make those short-term decisions, we will invest to grow our economy, working
with business to do so.
14:35
Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
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Thank you. The Chancellor's trouble as well her manifesto promise to limit spending increases
to £9.5 billion a year, her budget increased spending by £76 billion a
year, eight times as much. She's previously said she will not come back asking for more tax rises or more borrowing, so will she rule out
more borrowing, so will she rule out both in the budget later this year?
14:35
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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The budget in the autumn last year wiped the slate clean after the
14 years of economic mismanagement
by the party opposite. We won't have to repeat a battle like that because we are not going to inherit anything like that ever again because we've changed the rules so that the OBR
always now get information rather than it being hidden like it was by
the previous government. the previous government.
14:35
Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)
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Thank you. My honourable friend the Member for Saint Albans gave examples of alternative taxes to
labours national insurance increases. Asking the big banks, social media giants and online
gambling companies to pay their fair share of tax. Can the Chancellor confirm she has heard these Liberal
Democrat alternatives and explain
why she isn't listening to these fair and sensible proposals?
14:36
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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One thing that is scored in the OBR document today is the gambling levied this government has
reintroduced, and that money will be used to make sure that we regulate gambling properly in our country and rightly so.
14:36
Gregor Poynton MP (Livingston, Labour)
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For defence companies in Scotland, UK export Finance was a
crucial role in financing sales to our allies around the world, including Ukraine. Can the
Chancellor therefore outline how the increasing capacity of the UK export
Finance will have defence companies in Scotland create jobs in my Livingston constituency and strengthen our national defence? strengthen our national defence?
14:36
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Just two weeks ago I was able to announce £2 billion extra for UK
Export Finance specifically to help defence companies in the UK export.
As countries around the world and Europe particularly increased defence spending, I want to make
sure that we get those contracts here in Britain to support our proud defence industry, including in
places like Livingston and Forsythe were was just a couple of weeks ago.
14:37
Robin Swann MP (South Antrim, Ulster Unionist Party)
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The Chancellor's statement
referred to people who were listening. The president of the Ulster Farmers Union was actually in the public gallery to hear her statement, which didn't reference
agriculture or farming at all. It talked about conflict security and
safety. Nothing on food safety. I spoke of writing off generation of young people. This Chancellor's
family farm tax write-off regeneration of young farmers. What confidence can the Chancellor give
our agricultural sector?
14:37
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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With specific reference to
agricultural property relief, unless you have a form that is worth around
£3 million, you won't be paying extra tax. More than two thirds of farms are not affected at all by the
changes in that relief, and if you
do pay the tax, it's at half the rate that anybody else pays, and you can pay it interest-free over a period of 10 years. Very different
from inheritance tax bills that anybody else pays.
14:38
Mark Ferguson MP (Gateshead Central and Whickham, Labour)
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I welcome the Chancellor's reference in her recent answer to
the £13 billion of additional capital expenditure announced today, so could you put today's statement
in the context of the significant investment already made and forthcoming and contrasted with the
last government didn't have a plan for long-term growth and abandoned communities like mine?
14:38
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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My honourable friend speaks powerfully on behalf of his
constituents in Gateshead who rely on the infrastructure that our country needs, whether that's
energy, digital or transport infrastructure. And in fact the houses that all of our constituents
need. In the budget last year about £100 billion extra in the capital spending during the course of this Parliament and have been able to announce an additional £13 billion
today. Unlike the party opposite, I'm not willing to cut capital investment because capital
investment is absolutely crucial to grow the economy until average the
private sector investment we need as well.
well.
14:39
Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)
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The Chancellor has made much of the government's investment in defence and decide to make the
country a defence superpower. I'm keen to pitch for a share.
Huntington is the home of our UK defence intelligence, and the NATO intelligence fusion centre. A huge
investment in sites like the campus, brand cross and potentially the redevelop of MoD land around REF as
well. Perfect location for defence tops and with the arrival of several
already in flight US government is investing north of 5 million in Huntington alone, so could I make...
Ask her to make a similar commitment and included in her list of defence sites?
14:40
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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What a great pitch. I'm sure one
of the ministers from defence will be pleased to meet up with you to
discuss this opportunity is. As we move to 215% of GDP spent on defence
and 3% in the next Parliament, and determined that that money benefits our troops in the UK but also
supports us to become an industrial defence superpower, and I'm sure we can wipe the honourable gentleman to realise those ambitions for Huntingdon.
14:40
Rosie Wrighting MP (Kettering, Labour)
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The party opposite left £22
billion hole in our public finances and they continue to oppose every decision made by the Chancellor to
clean up their mess. Can the Chancellor tell us how things would look now if the Conservative Party
had their way? had their way?
14:40
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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What it would mean the people in Kettering and around the country if we had a continued under the plans
of the previous government is that interest rates would remain high, inflation would have remained high
and growth would continue to flatline. Where is the OBR today
forecast real household disposable incomes will rise, growth will be higher, living standards higher,
because we have returned stability to the economy and we are backing the builders, not the blockers.
14:41
Max Wilkinson MP (Cheltenham, Liberal Democrat)
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I don't wish to interrupt the
discussion on the front benches. I
have another opportunity for the Chancellor. In China we have a
scheme that can reduce jobs and growth and will support the defence industry for the Golden Valley
developer next to GCHQ which will be a key part of this country's defence
investment over the coming years. What the Chancellor take it upon
herself to work with ministers in other departments you already know about this to make sure we get the investment we deserve and GCHQ members deserve as well? members deserve as well?
14:42
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I'm really proud of what GCHQ do to keep our country safe. And part of what we are doing around the defence budget above the left to
2.5% is including some of the security service work because increasingly the work the security
service do is crucial for our national security and defence. Of
course that's on top of the 2.5% but as we protect defence spending, is
right we take into account GCHQ and other security agencies as well, and of course very happy to work with
you to ensure we maximise the benefits for so many constituencies including in Cheltenham.
14:42
Graeme Downie MP (Dunfermline and Dollar, Labour)
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Nothing the Chancellor for her statement and welcome the increase
in defence spending which represents a huge opportunity for Scottish workers? I was delighted to have her
visit my constituency recently. What you work to ensure a continuous shipbuilding program in this country
to maximus the opportunities for Scottish workers and she agreed with
me as utterly shameful that these workers have been ignored by the SNP for the last 18 years and or she confirmed that this Labour
government will always value the role of shipbuilding for our economy and national defence? and national defence?
14:43
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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Couldn't agree more with my honourable gentleman. It's just a shame there is no SNP members in the House, although there were so few of them to hear what he said. Perhaps
the honourable gentleman would write to the S&P and ask them why they refused to back the defence sector
in the United Kingdom and specifically in Scotland. specifically in Scotland.
14:43
Mr Adnan Hussain MP (Blackburn, Independent)
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It is estimated that in under five years there will be over 3
million families in receipt of disability benefits and will financially lose as a result of
today's announcement. With an average loss of £1720 per year
compared to inflation. Is the Chancellor comfortable knowing that she has bought despair and horror to
disabled people and their families across the country? across the country?
14:44
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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We have a very basic principle.
The people who deserve to be protected should be. Those who can work shirt, and that we need a
system that is sustainable. We don't have any of those three things today, and that's why we are reforming our welfare system to give additional support for those with the highest needs, to give
personalised targeted and guaranteed support to help people back into work and to ensure we've got a
system that is sustainable so it's there for generations to come.
14:44
Louise Jones MP (North East Derbyshire, Labour)
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As the Chancellor will know, East
Midlands is often at the bottom of investment the tables and we suffer through a lack of transport planning
for top or the Chancellor outlined to me how the extra public investment and the National Wealth Fund will change that and deliver
for people in North East Derbyshire?
14:44
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I thank my honourable friend for
that question. People in North East Derbyshire will benefit from the additional homes, whether they are
able to buy this homes, to read them or indeed to build this homes as we
expand the number of construction apprenticeships and 10 new technical excellence colleges in construction.
And they will also benefit from the increases in real household disposable income because what we want when the economy grows is to
have more money in people's pockets, and that's what the OBR confirm what happened today.
happened today.
14:45
Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Pharmacies like in my constituency are struggling with the impending hiking employers national insurance, business rates and in fact but the fact they don't know
they were being paid for NHS services this year let alone next. Can the Chancellor confirm whether pharmacy first will be continuing
beyond the end of next week?
14:45
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I'm sure the relevant health
minister would be willing to meet with you to talk about that, but because of the investment we put
into our National Health Service, last year the budget, more than 20 blue pounds of additional funding,
we are able to start rebuilding our NHS, reduce waiting lists indeed redundant now for five months in a
14:46
Alex Baker MP (Aldershot, Labour)
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As we secure Britain's role in
the changing, I welcome the focus on Defence innovation and thanked the Chancellor for referencing my
community. We are ready to serve. When it comes to Defence innovation,
too many in my community struggle to access banking and finance
facilities, often on the basis of self-imposed ESG criteria. You'll be
Chancellor welcome investors and institutions that have responded to
my campaign calling on banks and fund managers to broaden the
approach to defend the country, approach to defend the country, support Ukraine, fire up our own base.
14:46
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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I was pleased to welcome the
constituency in my statement today.
As the home of the British Army and on behalf of this government, we thank the people of Aldershot and Farnborough for the service they get
every single day. My honourable friend the freight to mention the
importance of companies in Defence, big or small, being able to access finance. It has never been more
important than today, when we see
the threats continue to grow. I urge everyone in financial services to do their bit to make sure the fantastic
Defence start-ups have the money that they need to grow and help
defend the country and our values.
defend the country and our values.
14:47
Jim Allister KC MP (North Antrim, Traditional Unionist Voice)
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With the Chancellor better explain how the service cuts will
translate into the devolved regions
and the impact on future allocations? Are there lessons to be learned from the fact that in 2015
the Northern Ireland Executive spent
£700 million and then proceeded to re-engage hundreds of civil servants re-engage hundreds of civil servants as workers? Are there lessons to be learned there?
14:48
Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Leeds West and Pudsey, Labour)
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That there is an important point
and why we have not set a number on the reduction of the size of the
civil service and made it an admin target because we do not want
numbers to fall while the numbers of
agency workers increase. Absolutely, the government will learn from failed efforts of the UK government under the Tories and other administrations in the past.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will give the House a few moments to settle down before we
moments to settle down before we
14:49
Anna Gelderd MP (South East Cornwall, Labour)
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**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank Thank you, Thank you, Madam Thank you, Madam Deputy Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that leave be given to make provision about the teaching and promotion of the Cornish language in educational institutions
language in educational institutions and to make provision about the recognition of the Cornish language and heritage and for collective
and heritage and for collective property. It's not just about preserving the Cornish language but
preserving the Cornish language but about cultural identity being protected that is woven into the past, present, and future of
past, present, and future of Cornwall.
Cornish can be traced back thousands of years and speaking has been driven further west due to conflicts and a vision from Europe.
Our fishermen kept the language alive until it fitted in the 18th century but despite this Cornish was officially recognised as a regional
language by the UK government in
2002 and part two of the UN Charter for Regional and Minority Languages.
This from that Cornish, Welsh,
Scottish and Irish Gaelic, is to be promoted and protected. The UK
government is committed to the
despite Cornish is a lower status while four of the other five have a higher level of protection which has stronger commitments on education,
public life, and media.
In November 2004, the UN Charter for Regional
and Minority Languages urged the UK government to take stronger measures to support minority languages
including enhancing educational provision and promoting language
awareness. This will be to work in lockstep with the recommendations
and strengthen the UK's commitment to linguistic adversity. Recognising
Cornish is growing but it needs support. The council and the
National Minority Working Group has championed initiatives such as Go
Cornish which is in many schools, yet Cornish is still not formally
embedded in secondary education.
GCSE Cornish once existed but was
discontinued in 1996 the option to learn should be available and minority language education should
be strengthened and we must ensure
learning Cornish as a viable and accessible option. It is there for
those who wish to engage with cultural heritage. It should not be a burden for overstretched schools but an exciting opportunity to learn
and it proves it can be done without increasing the workload as it
provides resources and learning models and it aligns with the
capital framework which encourages schools to celebrate cultural traditions and history.
Beyond
skills, there must be provision to provide lifelong learning opportunities. At present, hundreds
of people sign up for classes each
year and universities have previously offered courses in
Cornish. Why not Cornish if Welsh
and Gaelic? Cornish does not have official status in Cornwall, nor if
the legislative requirement for its promotion but the council has worked hard since 2013 to implement a
strategy and I want to see this work and the local efforts strengthened by saying Cornish more in road signs
and place names because Kernewek is
a beautiful language, reflected in towns and businesses.
(SPEAKS
Understanding these meanings not only improves knowledge of the
only improves knowledge of the
language but also depends the sense of connection to history, landscape,
identity. The Media Act that the 24 insurers there must be content for
languages including Cornish. We must normalise everyday use of the
language in media. Cornwall's distinct culture is living and
evolving. Supporting Cornish is not about excluding English and embracing bilingualism is a strength. It has worked successfully
in Wales and Scotland.
Supporting
Cornish language and heritage is not
just a cultural necessity but makes economic sense. Research commissioned by Glasgow City Council in 2022 friend Gaelic contributed
£21.6 million to the economy with tourism, cultural events, branding. Cornwall has its own recognised
identity and we have the same potential. It is a cornerstone of
the economy but must be sustainable and beneficial for local communities and research published in 2021 has
showed technological advancements fitting to liberalisation has resulted in a rent of an increase in
people looking for unique experiences and cultural tourism is
a growing market.
Events in
Kernewek, and bilingual signage can enhance the experience of visitors. This is not about selling our
identity but strengthening it and the commercialisation must be done
responsibly to ensure that it benefits Cornish People First and
foremost. The language and culture are deeply connected to the natural
environment and it is not just aesthetic but part of our identity. Cornwall and its people have always lived in partnership with nature. We
are of the sea and the land, working in harmony in the environment to
grow and thrive.
It is demonstrated in the corner that you see today. The landscape and coastlines are
beautiful and draw tourists from across the UK and internationally, serving as a backdrop for television
shows 'Beyond Paradise'. It is said
in Devon but filmed in Cornwall in many beautiful locations. Devon
recognises the beauty of Cornwall, clearly. Even our wildlife has Cornish identity, none more so than
the iconic red-built black-feathered cruel. It was once lost but successfully reintroduced in 2001
which was a symbol of resilience and
survival and just how the crawl has
returned, so can be language.
There are also species like compact wheels, basking sharks, basking
wheels, basking sharks, basking
sharks. There is a vibrant purple flower brooches on the cliffs and we
are proudly unique and distinct. The revival of Cornish has come from
grassroots efforts such as golden tree productions, the Cornish Language Board, the Institute for
Cornish Studies. Cornish is more than just words. It is a link to
history, stories, identity, future. The promotion of language and
heritage is about ensuring the culture and language of Cornwall get
the recognition they deserve the support to flourish for generations
to come.
(SPEAKS CORNISH) I encourage everyone to learn some
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Cornish. (SPEAKS CORNISH) Thank you. The question is that the honourable member have leave to
honourable member have leave to promote the bill. As many as of that
promote the bill. As many as of that opinion say, "Aye." The ayes have it. Who will prepare and bring in the bill?
the bill?
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the bill? Jayne Kirkham, Andrew George, Ben Maguire, and myself, Madam Deputy
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Cornish Cornish Language Cornish Language and Cornish Language and Heritage
(Education and Recognition) Bill.
(Education and Recognition) Bill. Second reading, Friday, June 20. The clerk will proceed to read the
orders of the day.
14:58
Legislation: Tobacco and Vapes Bill: remaining stages
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orders of the day. Tobacco and Vapes Bill, to be considered.
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considered. We begin with clause 11 and it will be convenient to consider other clauses and amendments as listed on
the selection paper. I call the Minister to move clause 11. Ashley Dalton.
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I beg to move that the clause be
14:59
Ashley Dalton MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care (West Lancashire, Labour)
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read a second time. I start by thanking all honourable and right honourable members for invaluable
contributions during the passage of the bill to date and in particular members of the Bill committee for providing insight, security,
scrutiny. I am honoured to have
taken responsibility for the bill. It is a watershed piece of legislation at the most significant public health intervention since the ban on smoking in public places in
2007. It would establish a smoke- free generation by gradually ending the sale of tobacco products across
the UK saw that a child turning 16 this year will never be able to be
illegally sold tobacco, saving
countless lives in the process.
It
will strengthen existing powers to reduce the impact of second-hand smoke in public spaces and in keeping with the manifesto commitment to the British people, it will outlaw manipulative promotion
of vapes to children, to prevent the
next generation from being hooked on
nicotine. Finally, there will be robust measures to strengthen enforcement activity. I do not have to tell anyone in this chamber that
tobacco kills. We all know this. What honourable members might not
know is how much it kills and the rate at which it kills.
And the devastation that it causes for
individuals, families, communities
across the country. Let me remind us, tobacco kills more people than any other preventable cause of
any other preventable cause of
death, any. Around 80,000 people in the UK lose their lives to tobacco
every year. It robs smokers of an average of 10 years of life
It substantially increases the risk of stroke, diabetes, heart disease, stillbirth, dementia and asthma.
This daily tragedy continues unabated with someone being admitted to hospital because of smoking
almost every minute.
Day in, day out, and with no end in sight. The
harms of tobacco are not felt
equally either. It's our most disadvantaged communities who suffer most. 230,000 households live in
smoking induced poverty. In Blackpool, 17.5% of pregnant women still smoke at the time of delivery. In comparison to 2.8% in Kensington
and Chelsea. Over 1/4 of people with a long-term mental health condition
smoke. Beyond this immeasurable cost
lives in the UK, the staggering economic impact of tobacco on our NHS cannot be ignored.
The treatment
of smoking-related diseases consumes approximately £3 billion a year,
vital NHS and social care resources. The cost is making to our economy is
even greater. 18 billion loss in
productivity every year. A figure which far outweighs the tax receipts it brings in of around 9 billion.
This bill is a vital step to break the devastating cycle of tobacco addiction, safeguarding future generations from a lifetime of ill-
health. But the world moves forward,
and we cannot ignore the alarming rise of youth vaping.
Whilst vaping is less harmful than smoking and can
be an effective quit aid for adult smokers, children should never vape.
However, in the past five years, youth vaping has more than doubled.
One in four One in 411 to 15-year- olds tried vaping in 2023. And it's
no accident. This is in part due to the deliberate branding and advertisement of vapes to our
children with brightly coloured packaging and enticing sweet
flavours. A calculated strategy to hook young people on nicotine.
We
cannot afford to wait to act. I will turn out the amendments laid by the
government, which seek to strengthen the bill and ensure greater clarity. As we create the first smoke-free generation and strengthen age
restrictions on vapes and nicotine products, we want to support retailers in taking appropriate steps to ensure they do not sell to
customers under the age of sale. Government amendments and see 11, 47
to 49, 51 to 53, 61, 63, 65 to 67
6971, 75, 77, 79 and 81 are a package of amendments and consequential amendments to the bill.
They seek to remove potential
ambiguity for retailers, regarding the use of digital identity for
verifying the age of prospective customers when selling tobacco, vaping and nicotine products. During
committee, members raised concerns that the list of identity documents dissatisfied -- to satisfy a person
charged with selling products to a
person under the age of sale and
identity. So these amendments remove the list of physical ID from the face of the bill and instead provide powers for the Secretary of State
for Defence Department of Health in Northern Ireland to specify in regulation the steps that may be taken to verify a customer's age in
order to meet the requirements for the defence.
This revised approach
better future proves the developers in identification processes and provides the potential to recognise digital ID in the context of the
defence. As well as physical ID. But in the widespread use of digital ID. These amendments will provide the opportunity for effective interaction with the provisions in
part two of the data you send access bill currently in Parliament. It includes provisions relating to
digital verification services. Digital verification services
provide an opportunity to securely verify age for both in person and
online sales, and we will continue to work closely with the Department for science, innovation and technology and other departments
when developing the regulations.
New clause 11 provides a similar powerful Scottish ministers to
prescribe regulations steps that should be taken to establish a
customer's age as a defence to an age of sale offence. This will enable Scottish ministers to respond to changes in technology and
consumer behaviours which may move away from the presentation of a physical document. The last Labour
government take bold action to prohibit displays of tobacco products, to protect children and
young people from being enticed into addiction and create a more supportive environment for adults
seeking to quit.
This bill goes further and gives powers to limit the display of a wider range of products, including herbal smoking products, cigarette papers, vapes
and nicotine products. Government amendments 56, 57, 6062, 74, 76, 78
and 80 have been tabled to alter the powers in the bill for England,
Wales and Northern Ireland which regulate the displays of products and their prices so that they will also cover tobacco -related devices.
As discussed in committee, pipes, heated tobacco devices and bonds are
currently displayed in shops and can have the effect of promoting tobacco usage.
This can make sure we can
prevent products that facilitate the consumption of tobacco openly
displayed by retailers for top bill bans the sale of vapes, knitting products and cigarette papers from
vending machines in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And restates the existing ban on tobacco vending machines. We know that vending machines are used to buy -- bypass
age verification and undertake proxy verification services for people
under the age of sale. Governments amendments 56, 72 and 73 are clarifying amendments to make the
scope of the prohibition on vending machines absolutely clear.
This was discussed at committee. Government's
position is that the tobacco sales from vending machines England
regulations 2010 already apply where a customer has a coupon receipt or token purchased elsewhere, which can
be redeemed at a machine. We are amending these clauses so that all machines which dispense products in
connection with sale are clearly captured by the ban. Bill strengthens the enforcement regime
to support law-abiding retailers while also taking action against those who break the rules. Along
with introducing new fixed penalty
notices, the bill re-enacts provisions on the Street premises
orders and restricted sales orders.
These are existing measures that local authority trading standards in
England and Wales can use when dealing with a retailer that persistently breaches restrictions. This ensures that there are a range
of tools and the enforcement armoury so the trading standards officers can act quickly and effectively against rogue retailers. Government
amendments 50 and 59 clarify a point
raised during committee by removing the duplicative and necessary provision that would prevent a business or individual from operating a vending machine for the sale of tobacco, vaping or nicotine
product following the restricted premises order or restricted sales
order.
Given the bill already prohibits the use of vending machines for tobacco, vaping on nicotine products, there is no need
for restricted premises orders and restricted sailors orders to
prohibit the use of vending machines first given these government amendments would improve the imputation and enforceability of
measures in the bill to ensure the most effective protection for the
public, and I commend them to the House. Turning now to the wider amendments in the group, I thank
honourable members for their scrutiny of the bill so far and before winding up later I will try to cover some of the key themes
touched upon.
On the amendment seeking to undermine the smoke-free generation, I'm sure we will hear arguments from some honourable
members who have been listening to the tobacco industry's arguments and
myths about how people should be free to make their own choices.
Smoking I would say to them kills two thirds of its users. Three quarters of people which they never
started smoking and the majority want to quit. That's not freedom of choice. The tobacco industry took
away their choice with addiction, usually at a young age.
In relation
to smoke-free places, we've been clear in England we intend to consult on extending smoke-free outdoor places outside schools,
children's playgrounds and hospitals but not outdoor hospitality settings at this time. No smoker wants to
harm people. The second-hand smoke
they do. If you can smell cigarette smoke, you are inhaling it. This particular import of the children,
pregnant women or people with pre- existing health conditions such as asthma or heart disease. The only way to stop this Hamas to stop
people smoking around others.
While I understand honourable members proposals to list specific places on
the face of the bill, or to add additional limits to the use of the powers, it's right that we consult
on the detail before making regulations and have the necessary powers to protect children and
vulnerable people from the harms of second-hand smoking. I'm grateful to the coaches of the APPG on smoking
and health. My honourable friend the Minister for the city of Durham and the honourable member Harrow East for their long-standing support for
this bill.
Through the amendments they highlight the importance of
retaining a focus on support for current smokers. This is why we are investing an extra 70 million for
the local stop smoking services this year and working to ensure all NHS
hospitals offer opt out smoking cessation services into routine care. I hope that they will be
pleased we've been able to confirm the extension of the swap desktop --
swapped us -- swap to stop scheme
and we are providing vapes as quit
AIDS.
We realise that the products being deliberately marketed at
children is unacceptable. And this is why we've included HMM to stop fetes being branded and advertised
to children. The government is also investing 10 million of new funding for the coming year for Trading
Standards to tackle underage illicit tobacco vapes to boost the trending
start my Trading Standards with
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additional boots on the ground. Trading Standards is a really
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Trading Standards is a really important thing for the therefore also are fixed penalty notices, so we should therefore be supporting
we should therefore be supporting today the amendment which will mean any fixed penalty notices will be retained by the local authorities to
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retained by the local authorities to spend on public health, thus saving the NHS money as she mentioned earlier? As he will know, there are
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As he will know, there are measures already in the bill where
measures already in the bill where some of the fines can be retained and certainly can be retained in order to make it cost neutral for
local authorities, but I'm sure we will explore the latest through the
bill. The bill contains regulation making powers on a range of aspects
of product requirements. Already allow us to do many things that honourable members seek to achieve,
but to look forward to listening to contributions to today's debate on the wider list of amendments and responding to the points made.
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The question is that new clause 11 to read a second time. I call opposition spokesperson Dr Caroline Johnson.
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Johnson. Thank you. It's now a truth
15:13
Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)
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Thank you. It's now a truth universally acknowledged that smoking is bad for one's health. It is the leading cause of preventable
is the leading cause of preventable death in this country responsible for over 80,000 deaths every year.
When we say that number, it is easy to allow it to trip off the tongue
as another statistic without really realising just how many people it represents. Each of them, such as my nana Burton it was a smoke and died
of lung cancer, there was a personal story of damaged health and often an
early and preventable death.
The
Conservative Party introduced a bill based on a similar premise to this one in the last Parliament, although the government has made significant
changes since to the legislation, including taking a power which can
be used to ban smoking in vaping and pub gardens as well as a licensing scheme for tobacco products. We move
onto an amendment 85. What we've received repeated assurances that the sector of state intends to use the measures in this bill only to
improve public health, it must examine whether the legislation is
proportionate and reasonable.
As far as they can see, gives the sector stay enormous powers to extend the smoke -related legislation to any place with minimal oversight and
without needing to provide a reason. There were whispers last summer that the government was considering banning smoking in pub gardens before they hastily withdrew this provision in the face of public
backlash. If only they would
withdraw more of their policies on the face of public backlash perhaps they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now. The bill as it stands empowers this active state to
extend smoke-free and very free regulations to more places,
essential to any place the aim of reducing exposure to second-hand smoke and promoting public health.
However the government did not accept our amendment at second
reading that it should only apply to places that have approvable significant risk to public health to
justify such a ban. For this reason I commend amendment 85 once again which restrict the sector of state only be able to designate open or enclosed spaces outside a hospital, children's playground, nursery
school, college or high education premise as a smoke-free area. These are the areas the sector stay has
said he wants to target, prevent any sort of targeting of any other area such as pub gardens by the back door.
Ollie claims is not his
intention now, that may not remain the case for the rest of this
government nor indeed any future government and that's a risk in allowing these measures to stand first and for those reasons I
encourage the House to sport
amendment 85. New clause 18 and amendment 89, the new bill also gives powers to this active state to introduce new licensing scheme for retailers selling tobacco, vaping or
nicotine products. However we know that licensing schemes will come at a cost.
To businesses, local
authorities, to administer them, and enforcement. That does not make it
the wrong thing to do. But we would need to make sure that any licensing scheme is not excessively burdensome
nor expensive. New clause 18 and amendment 89 therefore require the government to consult on the new
licensing scheme tobacco sales
licensing scheme tobacco sales
This would mean that the views on the impact of businesses including small businesses would be hard and
we would ensure there is capacity to deliver such a scheme.
There is a
balance between the requirements of business and public health and appropriate consultation would ensure the government is more likely
to get that right. New clause 19,
another concern is the impact the legislation would have on the illicit drug market with HMRC
estimating this was and impact of
£2.8 billion in 2021-22 with the tax
gap broadly unchanged and in 2023 the Chartered Savings Standards Institute issued a statement on
products that were non-compliant.
There are warnings that the instrument adjustment could extend the market further and so it is
sensible to take precautions to tackle this issue.
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Specifically on clause 19, does my honourable friend it is
my honourable friend it is inevitable the generational smoking
inevitable the generational smoking ban will lead to an increase in the illegal tobacco market and that is regrettable part of this bill.
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regrettable part of this bill. It is a significant possibility and that is the reason for moving
and that is the reason for moving the amendment and my honourable friend will understand that. These can include smuggled and counterfeit
can include smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes, vapes nicotine levels
above the legal limit and other issues to do with the health
warnings required by genuine
products. Regardless of whether colleagues support or oppose this on
the whole, we can all agree the black market is unacceptable and we have met the requirement for the
government to produce reports on the availability of the illegal products and the impact on public health and
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safety. I am extremely grateful to my honourable friend because I know
honourable friend because I know they have taken a fierce lane on
illegal tobacco sales in Lincolnshire and will she agree these are often linked to organised crime with the shops that sell them
crime with the shops that sell them
linked to money laundering and are usually foreign-owned. Will she join
me in urging supporting trading standards and police who are doing a
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fine job on trying to clamp down on this industrial scale crime. As is usually the case, I find
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As is usually the case, I find myself agreeing with the right honourable gentleman and this will
honourable gentleman and this will give us the evidence we require to make sure the black market is
make sure the black market is reduced and I will also give way to
reduced and I will also give way to my honourable friend behind me. Will she accept it is not a risk that the
she accept it is not a risk that the black market is going to open but that it already exist because in
2021, 23.6 billion cigarettes were sold under duty and that had fallen
to 30.2 billion.
The black market is
already here. It is not that the new single recruited and so this is a
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greater risk. My honourable friend makes a fair
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My honourable friend makes a fair point and we know the black market
point and we know the black market does exist and we have to look at the scale of changes and enable authorities to make more robust
authorities to make more robust enforcements. Let's move on to 90. Legislation in its current form
Legislation in its current form would ban all forms of nicotine and non-nicotine vapes and adverts will
non-nicotine vapes and adverts will no longer be allowed on boards on the side of buses and sports teams
will be unable to be sponsored by a vaping company.
I'm concerned about
the sharp increase in children addicted to vaping and other
nicotine products like pro she is flooding the market. Children have been reported as unable to concentrate or complete the whole
lesson without visiting the bathroom
to vet. Action is welcome and there are steps suggested to reduce appeal
to young people with flavours and packaging. The Minister noted that vaping can be useful smoking
cessation tool for adult smokers who are trying to quit and in my view
that should be the only purpose.
This amendment would ensure vapes that are being targeted solely as an
aid to help in quitting would continue to help bring down smoking
rates. Clause 20 introduced a
requirement on products and we are looking at what is currently the case in Scotland. Whether someone is
buying vaping products online or in-store, there must be robust
provisions to ensure the purchaser is of the legal age and be seen
issues with these measures not always being effective and this
would be an important step to prevent children from accessing
products online this should not be able to buy.
In closing, the Conservative Party has a strong
record of action on tobacco control. Under a Conservative government plain packaging was introduced for
tobacco products, minimum pack sizes were introduced, and these policies
have been demonstrably effective in reducing smoking rates. I personally campaigned passionately on this
issue for two years and I'm pleased to see some of my original amendments have made it beyond committee stage and are with us
today and I was pleased to see some government amendments that have strengthened the bill.
Our
amendments are designed to highlight
difficulties in the bill and we oppose the power grab or the government taking powers to ban smoking and vaping by regulation
without consultation. We have concerns about how the bill will
operate in practice in terms of the and small businesses. We ask the government to seriously consider our
amendments today.
amendments today.
15:23
Preet Kaur Gill MP (Birmingham Edgbaston, Labour )
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Can I welcome the Minister to her role? It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate to support this generally while consigning smoking
to the history books with this legislation. Unless we act to help
people stay healthy, the rising tide of health threatens to overwhelm the
NHS and empowering public health at the us government was penny wise but
pound-foolish and so we have to save
the taxpayer money and most importantly save lives. We know that prevention is better than cure and smoking remains the biggest
preventable case of ill health in the country with 80,000 deaths a
year and one in four cancer deaths and a factor in most lung cancer
cases.
More than 12,000 people smoke in my constituency and are more likely to leave the workforce and
many will suffer from issues like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and will lose 10 years of
life expectancy on average. The real
tragedy is how many thousands of these will have started as children, when they did not know better and
then they have never been able to quit and most smokers report wishing
they had never started. It is incumbent on us all to support this
legislation to help stop the start.
The cost of smoking exceeds £90 million every year in my
constituency including lost productivity, money drain from the NHS and £30.7 million in social care
and the cost is enormous to society and that is why it is time to stop
it out. In 2045, hundreds of young
people take the first drag of a habit they will carry for the rest of their lives and I was proud of
the response in the committee in the last Parliament and there is no freedom in addiction, as I said
then.
It is a shame the Conservative Party leader allowed her ideological
pointer from this fact when she voted against this in the last Parliament and this one and when the last government failed, this
government will get the job done and I am proud the government has improved on the legislation drawn up
by the last moment and the introduction of a new agreement to
reduce new products including vapes
is hugely welcome and this was a huge recommendation of the review in 2022 which was largely ignored by the last government but retailers
and the public overwhelmingly support according to the survey.
There was no requirement to have a licence to sell these products and that was a major gap in enforcement, particularly when you consider
alcohol sales are licensed and nicotine is not. I'm pleased to government is taking forward an
amendment tabled in the last Parliament for the introduction of
the on the spot £200 fines for those selling to those under age. Of the
councils that undertook test purchasing, 15% reported it was sold
to children under 18 in at least one
instance.
The introducing of the fines, double the amount of those
proposed by the previous government, will be much better. Does the Minister agree that double the fine
is double the deterrent. I want to commend ministers for these actions and under the last government use
and under the last government use
vaping travelled and an estimated one in three in the market for illicit and products with harmful
chemicals, heavy metals, and even drugs were found with gaping loopholes putting children at risk for years and dangerous and illicit
vapes in shops and schools is evident.
In Birmingham, trading standards and the police led raids
on retailers in an operation where
£6 million of illicit vapes, tobacco
and drugs was seized. One raid was the biggest ever in Birmingham and Claude £1 million of goods. It shows the extent of the problem and it was
an incredible job by the council
trading standards team to keep the public safe. I thank the government for getting behind the trading standards with a burst of £10
million to support work next year and I welcome the new introduction of clauses to the bill to set up a
testing regime for vapes.
I championed this proposal in the last
Parliament and it is shocking that under current rules there is no
testing regime for vaping products, meaning dodgy products can be rubberstamped by the regulator and
end up on shelves, undermining the valuable enforcement work done by trading standards to identify and
seize unmodified products and this testing of vapes has shown a
significant proportion of products, vapes, are not what they say that
they are. Some are advertised as 0% nicotine but are not to accidental
addictions and some contain heavy
metals and even antifreeze, research by a scientific journal.
During the last Parliament I tabled amendments
that would establish a new testing regime but unfortunately they were voted down by the Conservatives and I want to commend the government for
introducing measures. People have
quit smoking using vapes so they clearly have a role in the transition to a small crack in the future but did you there. I can
smoking it, we need confidence the products that are bought are safe
and testing with you that. I commend the government on the amendments that have strengthened the bill
include including the loopholes on vending machines, banning promotion and sponsorships and these qualities
ensure this will be keeping the products away from the impressionable eyes of young people
so we do not substitute one nicotine problem for another.
There were
significant holes in the plans of the last government. I'm pleased
these are better. This is not just
for hospital boards, doctors surgeries and dentist. We are a sick nation and the public health
challenge must be dealt with. Life expectancy was extended by 3.5 years under the last government but it
grew by just four months under the Tories. We see the epitome of the future-facing approach that only our Labour Government can deliver,
ensuring generation never becomes addicted to nicotine and we can protect the health and well being
and the NHS for many years to come.
and the NHS for many years to come.
15:30
Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)
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Can I thank the Minister for her remarks as well and add my broad
support for the amendments made to the bill. I will restrict my comments to amendments one and two
in my name and by my honourable friend the members for Winchester, Chichester, East Sussex, and I comment on clause 1 tabled by the
Member for Bath, under my name, too.
This is to do with the money from fixed penalty initiatives coming to public health initiatives can be determined by the relevant public authority.
Global Democrats agree
with the Secretary of State and government the prevention is better than sickness and cure and public health initiatives are crucial to
make key shifts in healthcare that
While the Secretary of State is
hoping to create a smoke-free generation, there will be existing smokers who may well wish to stop
and may need help from a public health initiative in order to do so.
Public health budgets have been cut
by 1/4 by the Conservatives since 2015, many fewer people had helped to quit and that is not what anybody
is hoping to achieve with this legislation or more broadly across
the NHS.
Research by University College London shows that parts of England, smoking rates have begun to
rise again and have been flatlining as a whole since 2020. Between 2020
and 2024, they rose by 10% in southern England and fell by 9.7%
over the same period in the North,
and that means that overall, an estimated 7 1/2 million adults in England are smokers. They concluded that this disparity between North
and South reflects the concentration of tobacco control programs in
northern regions, and the positive impact that those have had and their relative absence in the south.
There
is also evidence as the honourable lady has just mentioned that there
is significant black market activity happening in the UK and cessation
activities have become even more important to deprive those coming
gangs of funds and ensure that people are free of them, so given
the impact of public health initiatives, I would sincerely urge the government to accept the amendment and its consequential
amendment number two in this area which are in line with their objectives and would improve health and safety taxpayers money in the
long run.
Moving on to amendment 84, this is very similar to the
opposition amendment of 85. It
restricts the ability of a smoke- free area which the current legislation really does allow. The
Conservatives have been a bit sloppy
in their amendment because they have managed to remove protections in existing law for areas where there
is significant risk of second-hand smoke to be concluded in the smoke- free areas. The LibDem amendment has
that added safeguard so the chief scientific adviser advises that
there is a risk of second-hand smoke, can be designated as site
free, and it also retains the area designated, including NHS premises, schools and establishments and
children's playgrounds.
The secretary of state has indicated
that he will not designate other areas of smoke-free, especially when they have a detrimental impact on
hospitality industries and much loved village pubs, and we take him
at his word on that. But I hope the Minister can imagine a future in which a different Secretary of State
is less inclined to honour a promise, and I think it is right in that scenario, Parliament should get
a vote on the change of heart. So I urge the government to consider this
amendment carefully and ensure that the legislation matches promises made at the despatch boxes moving on
made at the despatch boxes moving on
to clause 1.
This requires the Secretary of State to review and report back on the presence of contaminated vapes and find ways to
reduce problems. My honourable friend has been campaigning on this issue following findings by the
University of Bath which found that one in six vapes in schools contained the drug space. Space can
cause serious side effects in children including cardiac arrest, so it seems reasonable to me that
the Department of Health and the Secretary of State tried to find a
way of addressing this issue.
So, in conclusion, I would like to highlight that I do intend to put amendments one and 2 to a vote to
ensure that there are some additional funding is from council measures, and I very much hope that honourable members will support me
health.
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I want to begin by declaring an interest as the co-chair on smoking
15:35
Mary Kelly Foy MP (City of Durham, Labour)
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interest as the co-chair on smoking and health. And I want to use my time today to speak to my amendments
and one or two others. To be clear,
the tobacco and vapes bill is a world leading piece of health legislation which will create the
first smoke-free generation, protecting children and young people from the harms of smoking. And the
city of Durham alone, around 5 1/2
thousand children start smoking each year, and most of them will want to
wish that they never started.
This bill will end that. It will stop the start and ensure that every child
has a smoke-free future, and recent data from UCL has shown that the
rates of smoking are falling fastest in the north-east, and this can partly be contributed to the hard
work and amazing regional programme
like fresh which works so hard to tackle inequalities in our region,
but the same data also shows that progress is not guaranteed with some
areas showing smoking rates increasing, so the case for action
is very clear.
I wish to turn to new clause 13 in my name which seeks to duty on the Secretary of State to
publish a roadmap to a smoke-free country every five years. It was a
Labour government to introduced the first ever smoking strategy in 1998,
smoking kills. Well, it's 2025 now,
and smoking still kills. This world leading bill is to be celebrated for
many, many reasons. However, the rising age of Sail will not impact the 6 million people who are
currently smoking in the UK.
Smoking is not spread equally across our
society with the most affluent 10%
set to become smoke-free this year, but the most deprived will not achieve that at the current rate
until 2050. So it's vitally important that the government ensures that no one is left behind
as we create a smoke-free future. Having a clear plan in place as to how to achieve that with targets for
reducing smoking for the whole population but also for pregnant women, though struggling with
mental-health, and those in occupations with high rates of smoking will save lives, so will the
smoking will save lives, so will the
Minister meet with the APPG following the publication of our report to discuss how we can turbocharge reductions in smoking, alongside creating the smoke-free
generation.
Returning to new clause
19 from the Conservatives that would require the Secretary of State to publish reports on the illicit
market, let's be clear, HMRC already published annual data with a very
detailed analysis on the illicit market, so it is difficult to see
what the Department of Kakadu in addition to that. There is actually no additional data sources available that would yield any different
results. Finally, on the amendments,
I want to address amendments 82 and 83 which would remove the exemption
that currently exists for performers.
Since 2007, the indoor
smoking ban, it has been against the law to smoke inside, however, this
doesn't apply to actors who are smoking in performances for artistic reasons. And there is a play
currently on at the West End which
tells the story of the American oil
lobbyist and master strategist, John Hellman, every smoker who died from convocation to lung cancer and the actor playing the lead role smokes
on stage. I believe this exemption should be removed because actors
deserve to have their health protected at work as much as everyone else.
Audiences, other
actors, they also need to be protected from second-hand smoke.
And performances at the National Theatre are already required to
substitute smoking in performances for vaping or other alternatives so
there is no reason why this
shouldn't follow suit. I would like to attend to amendments 85 and 86 which talk about smoke-free
extensions, and I know there will be
consultation and debate on the regulations for new extensions to smoke three places. And the creation of great places.
Can the Minister
say today that there will be exemptions where it is assured that
the use of vapes as an aid to cessation efforts are examples where
mental health and smoking partnership flagged that vapes are a valuable tool in mental health
settings to help patients quit. So
will the Minister commit to visiting a mental health trust to hear first-hand about their experience.
It is vital that we all work with them to provide clear guidance on
how we navigate these changes, and particular attention must be paid to
how policies in this bill and those coming into effect beyond them, like the disposable vapes act in June
will interact with each other.
Finally, today's funding announcement is very welcome. However, we have come down to the
wire a bit as funding was due to end at the end of this month. Can we get
reassurances that move it forward after the spending review. Services
can expect consistent long-term funding that allows them to plan
their activities and hire staff on longer contracts. This bill is a
historic opportunity to transform
public health in this country, and after working tirelessly for over a decade on it, I am so proud to
support it.
However, we must remain vigilant to ensure that no one is
left behind. All aspects of this bill, whether the smoking cessation measures or protection for workers
in the arts must be fully realised in order to create a truly smoke-
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free generation. I think you may agree with me
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I think you may agree with me when I say that the longer you spend in this job, the more you realise that almost nothing is ever
that almost nothing is ever straightforward. There are always unintended consequences of those with even the best intentions, and
with even the best intentions, and there is absolutely no doubt that smoking and smoking related tobacco
smoking and smoking related tobacco has done damage to my constituents and continues to do so. The health
of my constituents has suffered as a result of the well-documented
effects of smoking, and it is a driver of social and economic inequality.
Smokers on average earn
7% less than non-smokers. I couldn't believe that when I first read it as
a statistic, but it does make total sense because if you take more time off work because of inevitable ill-
health effects, if you spend more of your disposable income on tobacco, and develop a dependency on a drug
like nicotine, that will impact your earnings over time. Smoking is like
an extra tax on the most disadvantaged communities so I can see where the government has kept
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the previous government ambition to phase smoking out. I agree with every thing she says
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I agree with every thing she says about smoking, the elephant in this room is the incline in illegal
room is the incline in illegal tobacco sales. 44% since 21, while
tobacco sales. 44% since 21, while the number of smokers has only declined by half a percent, so reaching the stage where we are
reaching the stage where we are taxing cigarettes so much that we are fuelling the black market and criminality and we have to be aware
of these unintended consequences.
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It is almost as if my friend had read what I have written next on my piece of paper because I was going
piece of paper because I was going to go on and say that we don't live in a perfect world and there are unintended consequences, and even
unintended consequences, and even our most noble of ambitions, and this bill is not a silver bullet. There is already a thriving black
There is already a thriving black market for tobacco in Gosport and I am extremely concerned that
am extremely concerned that prohibition may exacerbate that problem, so I am keen to know from
problem, so I am keen to know from the Minister what she plans to do alongside the phase prohibition to properly resource the police forces
in Hampshire and around the rest of the country to ensure that the law
is upheld, and what plant she have to take on the criminals who are
already fitting and will only profit more as the age at which a person
can legally buy tobacco rises.
Even without this bill, we know that
smoking rates are already falling across the UK through a number of interventions including education and smoking support and awareness
campaigns. I recently visited a company that was providing smoking
cessation support. They are in partnership with NHS Essex who signpost smokers to their stores and
they get ongoing support to further help their shift away from tobacco, and Hampshire has a similar scheme
which contributes to 500 quits per year. Interventions like these have been successful so I want to know
from the Minister whether she has weighed up the merits against the
But mainly today what I want to talk
15:46
Dame Caroline Dinenage MP (Gosport, Conservative)
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about his new clause two which has been tabled in my name which I believe to be one of those rare
occasions when things genuinely are as simple as they seem. My amendment very simply seek to ban the use of
very simply seek to ban the use of plastic filters and cigarettes. The debate today will largely focus on the public health benefits of
the public health benefits of banning smoking and focusing on
improving cancer rates for example, and rightly so. I have to be very clear, banning plastic filters will do absolutely nothing for public
do absolutely nothing for public health.
It will make a great deal of difference note to the thousands of
my constituents who will be able to swim in the sea, or for the marine life that live there. Over 2 million
cigarette butts are little dropped
in the Gosport constituency that is the figure that will be replicated in every constituency around the country. It is little that we are
all paying to clean up. The costs of a local council average around £40 million each year. Many of them
inevitably being flushed into our waterways, rivers, and our seas.
Cigarette butts account for 66% of
knitted items in the UK. It goes
without saying this is pretty grim. But bearing in mind that cigarette
stubs can take around 14 years to degrade, swimming around at the end
of my road amongst pieces of discoloured plastic is unpleasant but the bigger threat to the environment. One cigarette but left
to soak in water for 96 hours will release enough toxins to kill half
of the salt or freshwater fish that are exposed to it.
40% of chemicals
contained in cigarette butts have been found to be either toxic or very toxic to marine life. There is
the chance that the slow degradation of the plastic parts is contributed
to the rise in microplastics that is being increasingly found in the
human body. Marine ecosystems like the seascape which covers 52,000 ha of coastal and marine habitats including in my constituency are
precious. We have spoken at length over many years about the impact of sewage in our waterways. But we now
need to talk about the impact of plastic.
That project aims to reverse the loss of biodiversity in
the Solent which will have all kinds of benefits including tourism and providing nature -based solutions to flooding. Seagrass installation
relies on the delicate ecosystem would involve thriving fish
populations, and putting populations at risk. Other large companies have
demonstrated it is easy to make a switching production that would be required to accommodate this change in the law. Biodegradable filters
already exist. It has been six years since McDonald's made a decision to switch to paper straws but unlike this, these biodegradable filters
will work and make no discernible difference to the user experience.
It explains why polling suggests
this measure supports, is supported by 86% of UK adults. Present a huge
step forward to removing 3.9 billion cigarette butts ecosystem, combating
problems in our beaches and streets, and the rubbish on our roads. So it really is an environmental no-
brainer. It is a Parliamentary no- brainer with massive public support.
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I hope the government can see the merit in supporting this amendment today. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.
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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I declare an interest as officer of vaping. I was asked by teenage
vaping. I was asked by teenage member of my family and back in 2016 when I first took a draw the
15:49
Euan Stainbank MP (Falkirk, Labour)
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when I first took a draw the cigarette. I know all too well the addictive power of nicotine. And I
will do anything I can to prevent
it. I must say some of the amendment jeopardise that ambition. There is
jeopardise that ambition. There is
no safe way to consume nicotine but essentially smoking tobacco is damaging to the health of a person.
Our communities will slowly and surely cut off tobacco from new customers who will see less cancer,
less heart attacks and less illness.
Points raised by the honourable
colleagues about the black market are important to look forward to hearing the ministers answers stop it does not undermine my support for
generational ban in this bill. With regards to some of the amendments proposed, they have my support for
the reasons articulated. Sitting on the Bill Committee I saw some wanted
the bill altered for sale at 25. I
see others wanting to scrap the generational smoking ban altogether. I doubt it will come as a surprise
to my constituent but people being
eventually able to smoke something that may eventually cover does not follow a philosophical steer.
For
all but the last three days of the Bill Committee I was 24 years old. The shift in age proposed at the
Bill Committee would deprive me of the liberty I already have. And regrettably exercised extensively in
my young years. Depriving adults of
their liberty in the name of liberty does strike me as an odd argument for opponents of the generational smoking ban. This band does not
deprive anyone of the liberty they currently hold but shifts the ban for those that never had or will
have it to begin with.
The liberty for those who will eventually be
able to stop smoking will have short shrift from parents or from those who have seen people die
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prematurely. I thank him honourable Friend.
There is growing concern about the use of vapes as a tool to entice
use of vapes as a tool to entice children into exploitation. By probing amendment new clause 5 was planted by a police officer in Derby
concerned about this national issue. I am grateful to the Minister for meeting me to discuss this. Would my
meeting me to discuss this. Would my honourable friend agree that we must acknowledge use of vapes, and ensure
that licensing authorities in the police were together to crackdown on
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any retailers connected to this. Identifies the point about the protection of young people. I would
protection of young people. I would be interested if the list address this. Non-smokers should never vape but we should acknowledge vaping can
but we should acknowledge vaping can
help other smokers quit. And it is far less harmful than tobacco smoking. Consolidation of vaping into a device solely used for the
into a device solely used for the cessation of smoking is something I believe we should pursue in future.
And it. The worrying rise of young
And it. The worrying rise of young people getting their hands on vapes in the first days. In the early
stages, Bill Committee said online
age gating was something that made it far too easy for people to get
their hands on. There is still work to be done to put the onus on the vaping industry to safeguard. That
is why I put my name to these new clauses. This would permit the
Secretary of State for regulations mandating vape retails that would
approve age technology.
Allowing
vapes aligns and strengthens the bill's objectives by seeking to extend protection away from the
point of sale to the point of use. I will ask ministers if they will
commit to meet with myself the APPG to discuss age-related technology and wider measures will be supported
in the UK to share the aim we all have two stop vaping. The bill grants a secular state similar
powers to change display of packaging. This bill should not
deter smokers from switching today.
It is a huge reason why smokers quit
and stick by quitting we should not regulate in any way the message that
we must stick with that, that. This bill should be supported. It is time
to take a step that will do a substantial amount to deter smoking and prevent nicotine addiction and secure a generation against smoking.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Whilst I hesitate to break up the
consensus ever so slightly, I do disagree with this bill fundamentally. Because the
generational smoking ban misrepresent the proper relationship between the state of the individual
15:54
Jack Rankin MP (Windsor, Conservative)
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between the state of the individual and creates two tiers of adults. I don't intend to plough on with the
argument too far. I recognise the will of the house at second reading, and what I tried to do the amendment
I have tabled is to genuinely improve the main aim of the bill in a way that gets people off smoking
in the interests of public health
which, regardless of whether you are in favour or against generational ban on smoking, I believe it is something that we should all
support.
That is why I am grateful to members right across the house both from the government benches,
from the Liberal Democrats, from the DUP and from others for supporting my amendment that I make today in my
name. New clause 8, new clause 9,
new clause 10. As amendment 46. The message of my amendment is simply
this. Let's ensure less harmful vapes and nicotine products gets to the smokers, the adult smokers who
would benefit from them so smoking
rates continue to fall.
In that regard I would like to associate myself with some of the remarks that
the honourable Member on the other side from the city of Durham I believe have already made. I feel
the risk of this bill is that ministers may inadvertently weaken somewhat the decline in smoking in
Britain. As the Minister said in her opening remarks, and the Shadow Minister, vaping is a legitimate
undesirable smoking cessation tool for adults.
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I'm grateful. I associate myself
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I'm grateful. I associate myself with what he has said already. When plain packaging was introduced, just
plain packaging was introduced, just the kind of inadvertent effect was
felt. As those who wished to counter feed tobacco products were able to do so at will. Using plain packages
do so at will. Using plain packages that were no different to legal wrappers.
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wrappers. I thank him voice remarks. I would associate myself with the same remarks that my honourable friend
from Gosport made. We have to be a bit careful about the inadvertent effects of what might be the goodwill of others in this house.
Regardless of what we see as the role of the state in this, we still
welcome smoking this country has come down from the highs of almost 30% in the early 2002 the highs of
almost 30% in the early 2000 211.6% today.
We have to recognise that is partly due to education, partly
social stigma, partly it is legislation this house has brought
forward. We should also acknowledge the essential role that the free market has played to clearly with
vapes and other non-tobacco
products. In terms of getting adults to stop smoking. However we should also recognise that there are still 6 million smokers none of whom will
come under the generational ban umbrella. So we need to ensure that
the safe alternatives out there available for them.
My view is this bill as it is currently drafted
risks hanging them out to dry. By treating vapes and nicotine products in the same weight cigarette are
today, with an outright generational ban. That is a false equivalence not
backed by the science. From sitting on the Public Bill Committee, I
realised how prevalent the view is amongst the public that vapes and
other smoking cessation tools were
there. Vapes are 95% safer than cigarettes and that is according to
Public Health England and an independent review.
You can look at any smoking cessation website and
you will find similar message. Any smoker will tell you how difficult it is to go cold turkey. And less
dangerous options like vaping will be a lifeline for those who want to
quit cigarettes. In the NHS, they have found that almost 2/3 of people
who vape alongside a stop smoking
service quit smoking. My primary concern in this blanket ban approach to marketing, when it comes to vapes
and nicotine products.
That is what my new clause 8 and nine intends to
address. As I say, I know there are many across this house who share those concerns. Whilst I totally
support the need to stop disposable
rainbow candy floss style vapes been given to children, that is totally unacceptable, adult smokers do
need-to-know that there is a safer alternative than cigarettes. In terms of that worry, many smokers now believe vaping to be as
dangerous as cigarettes. Cancer Research UK found that 57% of adult smokers think that vaping is just as
harmful if not more harmful than smoking cigarettes.
The risk of a
Draconian approach to vaping will only reinforce that incorrect
messaging which is damaging to public health. So by permitting marketing in limited circumstances,
and under strict restrictions as my
amendment aims to do, we can get the message to the 6 million adult smokers that there is a safer alternative out there. Indeed the government's own impact assessment
recognises the risk of health impacts and fewer people using vapes
than nicotine products to quit
smoking.
This should set off alarm bells in government. That is what
new clause 8 does. It simply asks government to have a proper consultation on the potential
impacts of marketing ban. Digging deeper than the sparse bullet points currently given to impact
assessment. This will allow us to listen to consumers who actively use these products and find out how these changes will impact them. In
the Public Bill Committee, the
consumer voice is largely absent. Restrictions on flavours, packaging, and vape-free areas are already
subject to consultation, and this amendment would simply bring marketing in line with this.
The
deeper consideration of the impact of the marketing ban would help us maintain our progress towards a
smoke-free 2030. Allow the Government the opportunity to prevent the unintended consequences of this bill. Education through
marketing is one of the best tools Government has at its disposal. So
why not wield the free market to effect, real social change let
If new clause 9 was to be included,
every nicotine product would have to have a printed warning at the Secretary of State's discretion.
This could be something like strict leaf adult smokers. We could even use the Chief Medical Officers own
words, if you don't smoke, don't
vape. This will send a clear message about the purpose of vapes without them getting into the hands of
smokers. In the Bill committee, many
raise the issue that any advertisers would be inevitably seen by children, and that is why I have
tabled amendment 46 which would avoid this problem by permitting advertising in adult only environments like pubs, bars and
clubs.
To me, that is just common
sense. If everyone is 18, there is no reason why advertising should not
be permitted. These night-time
venues are often hotspots from smoking. These people could benefit the most. If a nicotine pouch is
advertised in this region, they may think twice about going to a
newsagents. This would work especially well at the same pubs were licensed to sell these products
on the premises. So I'm urging the government through these amendments to reconsider their approach to
advertising when it comes to these legitimate smoking cessation tools.
My written question to the Department says that no reassessment
has been done in this area.
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Amendment 46, who would be responsible for enforcing the
responsible for enforcing the advertisement and making sure it was only those over 18 seeing the
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advertisements? I am assuming that that would be
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I am assuming that that would be the same people responsible for
the same people responsible for licensing alcohol, for example. So all of those amendments, they speak
all of those amendments, they speak to the amendments which speak to the
aims of the bill. I hope everyone
will recognise the value in this and
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will take this seriously. Is part of the group for responsible vaping, I have followed
responsible vaping, I have followed the process of the bill and speak to
16:03
Mary Glindon MP (Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend, Labour)
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the process of the bill and speak to clauses 4, six, seven and 15, as well as an immense 36, 37, and 88,
all of which are in my name. I would like to congratulate the Minister on
her appointment and for stepping up so wonderfully to bring the bill
forward today. I want to begin with
the topic of an enormous public health challenge which has formed one of the government's central messages within the bill. All of us
in this place will have heard concerns from teachers and parents about the prevalence of vaping and
the challenges that schools are facing to tackle it.
The bill sets out to reduce the appeal of vaping
to children, however, there is a delicate and calculated approach that must be taken when addressing
youth vaping. When addressing one problem, it is incumbent on all of
problem, it is incumbent on all of
us to another, and we still have more than 6 million smokers to
reach, and vaping is 95% safer than smoking according to King College Hospital and the former public
health England. According to data
from Ash, 3 million adult vapours
are ex-smokers.
There are hard yards we still have to take to reach smokers and I fear that the bill at
present is losing sight of what the evidence-based is about the relative
harms. Rape flavours can play a significant role in power sporting
adults towards alternatives. In response to a written question I
tabled, I was pleased to hear that the government recognises that flavours are a consideration for adult smokers seeking to quit. The
previous minister said it is important we strike the balance
between restricting bait flavours to reduce their appeal to young people whilst ensuring vapes remain available for adult smokers in a
smoking cessation tool.
A study led by the University of Bristol last
year found that flavour restrictions could discourage adults from using E cigarettes to help them quit
smoking. A moment 37 in my name seeks to try to balance banning
flavour descriptors with more flavours like gummy bear and bubblegum that deliberately appeal
to children whilst allowing adults
to use their smoking cessation product of choice. To stick on the topic of product requirements, a
moment 36 would empower ministers to regulate the design of products in
order to prohibit the sale of very high counts of they pin devices.
These products are typically cheaper her path, contain more vapour liquid
and plastic content than other devices and have a specific youth
appeal. In January, Jefferies new
guidance outlined what could be considered a reusable product aiming to prevent superficial charging and
refilling features. However, I believe it should be put on a statutory footing to ensure that it
is consistent. The bill should be
is consistent. The bill should be
amended to stipulate one device, one
tank.
New clauses 6 and seven in my name introduce a requirement of
retailers in England and to include age verification at the point of
use. While the bill seeks to tackle this, a fundamental issue is left
unaddressed. Once a vaping product leaves the shop, there is no barrier
towards children. This technology already exists. I met with a company
that has developed low-cost Bluetooth enabled chips that pay
with a mobile app for verification. This technology also includes geo-
fencing which disables devices in
certain areas such as schools.
These new clauses would harness the potential that innovation has to offer to address youth accessibility
head on. Turning to advertising, new
clause 15 adds an exemption from the new advertising restrictions from promotional materials in specialist vape shops, riding these are not
visible and meet any conditions around health warnings as set by
ministers. I am fearful that the
situation is given exemptions to the restrictions set out across clauses
114, with vapes shops not. These provide adult smokers with important advice and product consultations in their journey away from tobacco, and
their journey away from tobacco, and
I have seen that happen in action.
Pouches are only regulated through the product regulations in 2005,
meaning there is little regulation around these products, particularly
around nicotine strength. Nicotine
pouches led from 17 aground to 150
mg which are now easily obtainable. There is a need to limit strength to
lower levels. New clause 4 in my name places a ban on the manufacture and sales of pouches with more than
20 mg of pouches. This would eliminate the dangerous high
strengths of these products.
Whilst maintaining a threshold that minimises adverse consequences
arising from the restriction like smoking and illicit pouches. Before
we can regulate part five of the bill, amendment 88 would require the
Secretary of State to consult any
person or bodies as appear to him or her, representative of the interest concerns with the more limited wording. The bill provides ministers
wording. The bill provides ministers
with broad powers to make further regulations. It is vital that these powers are exercised in consultation with all relevant stakeholders,
including public health exports, enforcement bodies and specialists
and the industry.
In conclusion, as
chair of the APPG correspondent, I hope that ministers will be willing
to engage in the coming months as regulations are brought forward. If you do not smoke, you shouldn't
vape. For those who do use tobacco,
we have a duty to ensure that legislation effectively harnesses the power of vapes as a smoking
**** Possible New Speaker ****
cessation tool. I congratulate her work that she
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I congratulate her work that she has done on vaping and combating the illegal sales. I declare my interest
as the co-chairman of the all-party group for actions. I have held that
group for actions. I have held that post for 9 1/2 years, and seen the work that the Conservative
government has done to combat smoking which has led to a drop in smoking. But we are not where we
smoking. But we are not where we need to be. I commend the Minister of the government for bringing
forward this bill, and indeed, for absorbing almost all of the amendments that my colleagues
propose in the bill committee to
16:12
Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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strengthen the bill and make it a better likelihood that we can
achieve smoke-free England by 2030.
achieve smoke-free England by 2030. This bill will make us a world leader in tobacco control. We have always been at the forefront, and
always been at the forefront, and this consolidates regulation and limits the reach of the tobacco industry. We should be clear that
industry. We should be clear that tobacco is a unique product, but
tobacco is a unique product, but when it is used as intended, it feels to thirds of users, and above all else, it is highly addictive and
very hard to quit once you are addicted.
Most smokers will say that
they wish they didn't smoke and I wish they had never started. They
have had agency removed from them by their addiction. By passing this legislation, we are giving choices
back to young people in the future who will avoid ever falling into that trap and avoid the addiction
that trap and avoid the addiction
that it brings. I noticed the Minister is unlikely to accept my
amendments, but I would commend them to have further consideration.
First, the calls from the government
to consult on the introduction of a polluter pays levy on the profits of
the big tobacco industry. This is a campaign that the all-party group
has championed for many years. It is supported by the Khan review which
came out of the former member setting up the review to enable a
position to be reached. Almost all the recommendations of the review
are absorbed within this bill and work with the previous bill, but
there are still some outstanding.
It is supported by charities, health organisations, academics and think
tanks. So, tobacco consumption costs
our society greatly. The latest data estimates that smoking in England
alone, 43.7, £43.7 a year, far more
than the 6.8 million raised through taxes. That includes 27.6 million in
lost economic productivity. The Secretary of State for work and
pensions, trying to reduce the state, if we can stop people vaping,
they don't get unhealthy and are unable to work, they have to get back into the workforce and pay
taxes rather than being of receipt
of welfare.
So, this would be an opportunity to reduce the impact for the system and improve productivity
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across the UK. I commend his speech so far which
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I commend his speech so far which I think is excellent, and the work is done over many years looking to
is done over many years looking to reduce smoking prevalence in this country. Would he agree with me at the subject of the amendment that
the subject of the amendment that the tobacco companies still make a huge margin on tobacco sold and
huge margin on tobacco sold and therefore, they can easily afford the polluter pays levy that he is proposing?
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I welcome that from the all-party
group. Indeed, we have said that smoking is not a free choice. It is actually an addiction peddled by
regressive industry. First, it would raise approximately £700 million a
year. That is made with going to the Treasury and could be used for smoking cessation services,
supporting people to quit, and other health related matters. All the government programs on tobacco including mass-market media
campaigns, the incentives for pregnant women, for workers with
mental health problems, could be funded with cash to spare for other services.
They could go into other
initiatives. To achieve the aim of
halving the gap in halving life expectancy between richest and
Secondly it would allow the government to have greater control of the market. The combination of
tobacco being highly addictive and four companies having almost a
monopoly in the UK leads to severe market failures. We tax tobacco quite likely to incentivise
quitting. The industry gets round this because they just increase the
price. So the cost and comes onto the consumer rather than the profits that these companies are making.
That means that luxury brands go up more, and keeps prices lower on the
budget ones when there is a tax hike. That undermines public health objectives of tobacco taxation. As
has been said, the reality is that people on a lower income often smoke
more. And they smoke the worst
brands. So it was put in place
minimise taxes to address the problem was not greater controls are needed. The levy model put forward will give us the tools we need to
end the practices and narrow the price gap between the most and least expensive products.
That in itself
would be expected to bring rates of smoking down even before the revenue raised was invested in further programs. Finally, a levy of this
kind would correct a moral problem it is right and fair that the tobacco industry should pay for the
damage they've caused to our society, the UK taxpayer. I admit this model would directly come from the profits of the industry which
far exceed the normal products as mentioned. The public of course
supports this measure. 79% of adults in Great Britain would support the
levy on the tobacco industry, with only 5% opposed.
The current fiscal environment which we discussed
earlier today, when government is prepared to look more
controversially to raise revenue, it is clear that the government should consult on this proposal. If the Minister is not minded to accept the
excellent idea today, she take it to the Treasury and encourage the Treasury to participate in this? I
move on to the second when I proposed which is new clause 16. It
would introduce a ban on online sales, which is not covered under
the current bill.
I understand that for the UK this policy would be
rather unique and there is not currently a product available for sale in shops that you can't
purchase online. However, we would
by no means be the first country in the world to do this. Brazil, Mexico, Finland, our neighbours in
France, and Greece to name a few have banned the sale of tobacco products via the internet. So
banning online sales was recommended in a review and led by the World
Health Organisation who argued that internet sales constituted a point
of sale display.
An inherently involve advertising and promotion. Indeed you can look up today tobacco
products on any of the market website and see reviews such as
"Quite nice relaxing on a summer
day" or " at a test match. " This is not aligns with the message we want
to give to smokers. And I'm pleased that test match grounds will not allow you to light up in any case.
So it is important we look to the implementation of the smoke-free generation. With the right support and guidance, retailers will work to
implement the policy.
However, delivery drivers for supermarket shops, and delivery drivers, will
they be given the same level of
training information? And the same
rules for enforcing the age of sale as shop workers and others? So currently online sales are not
supported by individuals attempting to circumvent the law. But we met
demand for this may happen in the future. From a country that is
moving ever closer to becoming smoke-free, should tobacco continue to be available at the click of a button delivered to your door? I
think not.
While I'm fully supportive of a smoke-free generation, I believe it needs to go
further, creating a future which is
nicotine free as well. Coutinho is the drug that people become addicted to. The long-term effects of other nicotine products are just as
damaging and addictive. If we forbade their sale to anyone born
after 2009, they will hopefully never know what it is like to experience this and never be stuck
in that vicious cycle of nicotine addiction. I fear that legislating
only for a smoke-free society would
top the opportunity for tobacco companies to innovate new products
was the they will target their marketing on vulnerable people which they have done previously, and there's nothing to stop them from
doing it again.
Monopolising a new market that harms people's health.
That is why the legislation must be active and the ability to be
amended. So to reopen the bill in future years we might as well try
and kill two birds with one stone and ensure there is no opportunity for nicotine to continue ruining
people's lives. I would suggest that as the build progresses to the Lords we may need to look at that as well.
To avoid getting what my colleagues have and no doubt will say, I will, and I won't go into debt for these
amendments, I have added my name to
new clause 13, 14, amendment six and 86 and amendment 87.
I also support the government amendments. I would like to thank the government for
adopting this bill from the previous Conservative government. A bill that I have been advocating since I
entered this house in 2010. It is great that we are finally on the
cusp of protecting our future generations, our children's children. I urge ministers to accept
my amendments in the spirit in which they have been put, to ensure we cover all bases leaving no room for
misinterpretation or tobacco to circumvent the measures we are trying to produce was not I commend these amendments and the bill.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the
It is a pleasure to follow the speeches we have heard so far. I
stand to support the new clause 11 and the packaging related amendments that the government has laid for
that the government has laid for this landmark bill. I was privileged to serve on the Bill Committee for this legislation. A privilege
16:22
Mr Alex Barros-Curtis MP (Cardiff West, Labour)
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this legislation. A privilege primarily for two reasons, and to have the pleasure of colleagues, the
company of colleagues across this
house. But second and perhaps more importantly, because this legislation will undoubtedly save
lives. The Bill's second reading I talked about how this bill will deliver on its commitment to ensure
the next generation can never legally buy cigarettes and to create
that first smoke-free generation. As has been said, smoking is still the biggest cause of cancer and death
stop tobacco is responsible for 160
cancer cases each day in the UK.
And 3100 cancer cases annually in Wales.
So new clause 11 and the associated package is welcome, and as has been said by ministers, the purpose of
this package and related amendments pertaining to new clause 11 is to
ensure that identity documents will keep up with innovation and
accommodate the costs of digital ID. This, as the Minister said, is to future proof the bill. We have heard
it mentioned in a couple of contributions today. During the Bill Committee, the point of future proofing did come up.
Some concern
was expressed by the party opposite, and powers would be delegated to ministers through this legislation in order to bring to effect certain
provisions within the bill. My view is that these powers are needed because we need the government of the day to be able to respond with
agility and quickly to the
innovation, and I use that term carefully, of the tobacco industry
to innovate and find ways around the rules we are imposing on them. A
great deal of debate has focused on vaping and I want to focus the remainder of my remarks on vaping.
Whilst of course recognising the
value to some about vaping acting as a smoking cessation tool, as I said
at second reading and of the Bill Committee, vaping is not harmless. I
know colleagues have said this as well. It is not a panacea. In this
bill there is much to welcome on vaping the ban on advertising of apes and other measures to curb
youth vaping and regular use are examples that we welcome. The
reality is that, as has been said,
vaping use has more than doubled, and an organisation estimated that 25% of children between 12 and 17
had tried vaping.
This is an example of a powerful industry profiting not just from cessation but from
addiction. Marketing, vaping at
children, by switching the conveyor belt of customers to a new source. Indeed there is alarming evidence
that some vapours are swapping one
addiction for another. So whilst I welcome some of the contributions colleagues have made I think we need
to rely on these stages will stop the passage of this bill and
consistent with this government's work in the realm of public health since it took office, vaping is
regularly referred to as a smoking cessation tool.
As has been
welcomed, if you smoke, vaping is much safer. Last I of course accept
that this is a helpful tool in the fight for better public health, there is not the decades of evidence
that underpin that and that deadly
consequences of smoking. We do not
have that when it comes to the same respect to vaping. What we must be clear on is this, if you don't smoke
dope vapour. Because vaping is not harmless. It is just less harmful
than smoking tobacco.
And public health policy must be based on
evidence not spin from the industry, as has been expanded on by colleagues about the power of big
Tobacco.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Our honourable Friend is making an excellent speech and I like the way he summed up the risks inherent in
he summed up the risks inherent in vaping and the way he explained it in the context of being helpful for someone wishing to give up and at
someone wishing to give up and at the same time there is a real threat. Does he agree with me that this needs to be seen in the wider
this needs to be seen in the wider context of issues at secondary and primary school? And in the context
primary school? And in the context of differences in public health outcomes across communities, and the
need to focus resources to help children, and communities as well.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I completely agree, and I trust the Mr Mittal expand on this and she
the Mr Mittal expand on this and she comes to wind up the debate. As I
comes to wind up the debate. As I said, public health policy must reflect evidence and not just been or perceptions was not moving forward I would urge the government
forward I would urge the government that shows part of its work to
implement this legislation as well as as a smoking cessation tool, it must also undertake work to research the consequences of vaping on both
the consequences of vaping on both physical and mental health of the individual, the financial impact of it, and as has been said by my
colleague, any regional or national inequalities that have become
entrenched by vaping.
And when she comes back to this, I would be grateful if she could assure me that
in so doing she will work with the nations to ensure the data is as thorough as possible. If that
research shows, as I have no doubt it will, that vaping is
significantly damaging to patients, perhaps less than smoking but nonetheless still significantly damaging, then we must act to curb
it. We cannot afford to wait decades and decades for the truth to come out in the way it took decades for
big Tobacco to be found out.
I would be grateful if the Minister could provide some reassurance on this
point. In conclusion, I am proud to support this legislation. As has
been said, there is no limiting in addiction, there is no freedom in
being victim to a craving that kills. This bill takes on a precedented step forward to curb
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that damage and I urge colleagues throughout the house to support this bill tonight. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. I must declare an interest, I am a co-founder of Action on World
co-founder of Action on World Health. I find the tone of moral superiority in the chamber this
superiority in the chamber this afternoon almost unbearable. You clearly believe you are better human beings than those outside of here
beings than those outside of here who choose to pursue activities that you perhaps would not. It is a bit
you perhaps would not. It is a bit of a shock to some of you there are some of us that like a smoke.
We even go for if you pints in the pub,
16:30
Nigel Farage MP (Clacton, Reform UK)
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we have a punt on the horses, I even
we have a punt on the horses, I even have the odd doughnut which is properly the naughtiest of all.
properly the naughtiest of all. Because we want to have fun. We want to make our own minds up. You can educate us, you can tell us, you can
educate us, you can tell us, you can give us the facts, but the idea that this place should make those decisions for other people, it shows me that the spirit of Oliver
me that the spirit of Oliver Cromwell is alive and well.
And some of the nonsense I have heard, yes of course,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
course, Does he agree that a responsible government should seek to improve
public health, particularly public health of the younger generation?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is quite possible that sugar should be banned, yes I do agree with you. It is possible. But I
with you. It is possible. But I don't think it is what government is here to do. Government can educate, individuals should make their own
individuals should make their own
individuals should make their own A smoke-free generation. We had the member suggest we might be smoke-
member suggest we might be smoke- free by 2030. To begin, the idea that from 2009, nobody would buy
that from 2009, nobody would buy tobacco but those in 2010 could is just another aspect to 2 tier
Britain.
And you know, I have not had a single member, not one, despite the fact we are addressing
tobacco and products, not one member
has mentioned drugs. No, let's forget about that because that is illegal already and we can't do anything about it. I have been
hearing for decades that there will be a war on drugs, where is it
getting us? Drug use is rocketing, class a drugs particular,
proliferating everywhere, and here
is the danger. An ounce of tobacco is now more expensive in a shop if
purchased legally than an ounce of silver.
And so already, we have a
rocketing trade in illegal cigarettes and loose tobacco. You
carry on down this route with age bands et cetera, you find yourselves in a position that Australia
stupidly has put itself in by overtaxing tobacco, by making it very difficult to smoke, there have
been 40 fire bombings of premises in Melbourne alone in the last two
Melbourne alone in the last two
years. Do not drive tobacco into the hands of criminals. Do not create a new black market.
I totally agree
with the Minister that this is not an activity we should encourage, we are not keen for our kids to do it,
but please treat us like grown-ups. Educate us, let us make our choices,
don't let the criminals when.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. Thank you very much.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. Thank you very much. Firstly, I should say thank you to the Minister for scenting this afternoon, and thank you for
afternoon, and thank you for allowing me to be on the committee. It was an incredibly interesting
It was an incredibly interesting bill committee. There were some different views, there were some
different views, there were some robust conversations. We listen to different views, but overall, this
16:33
Dr Beccy Cooper MP (Worthing West, Labour)
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different views, but overall, this bill had generally cross-party support. As the benches opposite
have pointed out, it is many of their members that have been campaigning for this bill for a long
time. I am a public health
consultant. I trained for 10, 15 years, and the premise of public
health is data and evidence. So opinions are interesting. Opinions
can have great colour to a conversation. Opinions can have
great characters, but data and evidence in public health will
ultimately deliver population health
outcomes.
And this public health bell is a public health bell that.
People dying and will take away the
addictive nature of the substance that is not a choice. Public health
has been subject to conversations around should we or shouldn't we
impose things for many years. This conversation is not for you.
Seatbelts. I wonder how many of us feel strongly about wearing seat belts or not. It is a moot point
these days, but you don't have to go to far back to find people who really objected to wearing seat
belts.
Tobacco is undoubtedly still the leading cause of premature death
and disability in the United Kingdom. As has been said by my
honourable friends here, every day, around 160 people are diagnosed with cancer caused by smoking and cancer
causes different types of cancer. I
would like to talk primarily around the amendment proposed by my
honourable friend from Durham, clause 13. Alongside the outstanding
work that this bill will do in
enabling a smoke-free generation, we do need to continue to tackle health
inequalities for existing smokers.
Smoking is harmful and differences in smoking prevalence across the
population translate into major differences in death rates and
illness. One of the roles of this place is that in coming together from all across the country, we
represent different constituencies, and in doing so, we want to make
sure that we achieve the best health comes among many other things for our residents, and therefore, it is
incumbent on us to look at inequalities and where they reside, and in this place, to legislate
against those where it is possible.
Smoking is the single largest driver of health inequalities in England. Common among people with lower
incomes and we can discuss why that is, I'm happy to discuss that with any members who would like to. The
more disadvantaged someone is, the
more likely they are to smoke and to suffer from smoking relating disease and premature death. An smoking-
related health inequalities are not restricted to socio-economics status. We all represent different
parts of the UK. The poorer health of people in the north of thinking
compared the south is in part due to higher rates of smoking in the north.
In smoking rates are also
higher among people with a mental- health condition. People in contact with the criminal justice system looked after children and LGBT
people. We all have different types of people in our constituencies and
we should be mindful of those inequalities and addressing them. Health inequalities will be reduced
to measure to have greater effects of those in higher prevalence groups and in practice, this means prioritising population level interventions which disadvantaged
smokers are more sensitive to, and targeting interventions on the
smokers.
As someone who has run smoking cessation services during my time as a public health consultant,
I can absolutely say that it is an incredibly difficult thing for anybody to give up smoking. I
actually think that we do have members who have succeeded or
perhaps are still trying to do so. To give up smoking, you need to be a place where you have mental
resilience, you are able to put time and energy into quitting smoking. If you are fighting all the other
issues that come with the burdens of being poorer, fighting for employment, looking to feed your
children, it is so much harder.
My
honourable friend, the member for the city of Durham has proposed a roadmap to a smoke-free country
which would report to this place
every five years. I am not particularly wedded to whether that is the case or isn't the case, but I
do think that we should ensure that we are laser focused on reducing health inequalities across all
populations, and I hope that our government will consider on
reporting processes similar to this one, as part of the National Health Service changes that we all know are
going on at the moment in the health Select Committee, we were talking about where the disparities will go,
the dissolution of a Chessie blend, and this is a conversation that we
need to be mindful of, so we need to ensure that the ongoing importance of addressing these health
disparities are not lost and I think they are front and for most of the Secretary of State's agenda in the
10 year plan, and I commend this bill to the house on behalf of public health consultants, the
professionals, I am so proud to be part of the government, to be part of the Parliament that will bring this life changing legislation to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
this country. Thank you very much. I want to speak to amendment for and the subsequent amendments in my
and the subsequent amendments in my name and also youth clause 3. I
name and also youth clause 3. I think it is right that where a public health issue is identified,
that this body should then look and see if there is anything that can be
see if there is anything that can be done by law, by fiscal policy or the other leavers which are available to
other leavers which are available to us to deal with that.
But we should equally ask ourselves when we introduce laws, what are the
consequences of those laws? Are there any unintended consequences?
How practical are those laws? How
enforceable are the measures that we take? If they are not enforceable, all we do is bring the law into
disrepute and bring this place into disrepute. And my concern about this
particular bill, while some have described it as well-meaning, as
16:40
Rt Hon Sammy Wilson MP (East Antrim, Democratic Unionist Party)
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essential, as a flagship and want to
essential, as a flagship and want to take leadership, my concern is that we have given little thought and
we have given little thought and little debate to the consequences which are hitting us on the face,
which are hitting us on the face, and if we were being honest with ourselves, that will be quite good
ourselves, that will be quite good at this session to walk away and say we have done a wonderful thing for future generations.
We have
future generations. We have introduced laws which will do away with smoking and will improve the
health of the nation. Improve the health of the nation and ignore the
fact that we have introduced
legislation which is not workable and which I believe there is an
alternative to.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Does he recall the 2007 smoking ban that many people warned before that van that it would be
that van that it would be unenforceable and there would be
unenforceable and there would be barely any compliance. That law has
barely any compliance. That law has helped to drivers from secondary smoking and a massive number of people giving up as a result of no
people giving up as a result of no longer being able to smoke in the pub.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
pub. I think the member has the answer if you looked at what we are debating here today. We introduce
this legislation, and here we are revisiting the issue, why? Because
people are still smoking. Health
outcomes are still bad, and on top of that, we have additional problems which I will come to in a moment or two, namely the illegal purchases
and supply of tobacco, so let's not
think that this legislation, because we have tried it in the past, tried bands and all kinds of other
measures, we still have the problem
with it.
The first consequences this. We are being asked to
introduce legislation. The burden of
which will fall upon retailers. It
is at the point-of-purchase that the scrutiny and the implementation of
this legislation is going to have to
take place. I haven't heard anybody mention this today. What happens
when a retailer is faced with two
This debate has concluded