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Oral Answers to Questions
(4 years, 1 month ago)
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Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)
The Budget is a fantastic boost for Northern Ireland as we support the Executive to deliver on the public’s priorities, providing substantial investment for Northern Ireland’s economy with an additional £216 million in 2020-21. The economy will benefit from the announcements on tax cuts, including an increase to national insurance thresholds and the employment allowance. Since the Budget, we have also heard yesterday’s announcement, which will result in an additional £640 million for the Northern Ireland Executive, taking total covid-19-related Barnett consequentials to more than £900 million.
Paula Barker
Northern Ireland has the highest prevalence of mental illness in the UK. The Government pledged money to Northern Ireland as part of the confidence and supply arrangement to address those challenges, but that money has not materialised. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor in relation to that funding, and do the Government intend to keep their promise?
Brandon Lewis
The hon. Lady makes an important point. We all want good support for mental health and to see people with mental health issues getting the right support and healthcare. As I have outlined, we have a very substantial Budget for the Northern Ireland Executive, and I hope we will be able to see good provision. I spoke to the Health Minister yesterday about covid-19, but the issue that the hon. Lady raises is one of those that we will continue to have conversations about.
Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)
The link between health and the economy is now automatic because of the coronavirus situation. If I had been asking the Secretary of State a question about health in Northern Ireland two weeks ago, I would have pointed out that there is a £600 million shortfall in bringing the Northern Ireland health budget up to speed. How much money exactly will be put into that budget to ensure that the health system there is robust against coronavirus, and to build up the capacity that it ought to have so that it catches up with the rest of the UK?
Brandon Lewis
As the hon. Gentleman will know, a key focus for the Northern Ireland Executive is how we improve, and how they improve, health support for people across Northern Ireland. Quite rightly, everybody’s focus at the moment is primarily on not only wider health issues, but the specifics of dealing with coronavirus. The Executive have been hugely focused on that, including the Deputy First Minister, the First Minister and the Health Minister, all of whom I spoke to yesterday. That is where the focus is. There is a substantial budget—as part of the “New Decade, New Approach” deal, there is £2 billion of support for the Northern Ireland Executive, and I hope that we will see a really improved health service for the people of Northern Ireland.
Tony Lloyd
The Secretary of State has to do better than this. The amount of money that has been made available for coronavirus and health generally is not enough for the needs of the people of Northern Ireland. Will the wider moneys available guarantee support for those who cannot get sick pay and cannot pay their rent, and guarantee that those whose small businesses are under pressure will still be in business when we get through this crisis?
Brandon Lewis
I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that there is £2 billion linked to the “New Decade, New Approach” deal. As I said, last week’s Budget announcements will provide £900 million for the coronavirus situation. That is a substantial amount for Northern Ireland, on top of the money that the Executive already have. I share his desire to see the Executive delivering strong and good healthcare for Northern Ireland, and we will work with the Northern Ireland Executive on that.
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
May I appeal to the Secretary of State, in his work with the Executive on the Budget and the economy, to have a strong focus on farming? It is at difficult times like this that people realise fully the importance of food security to our nation, and to every family and household in this country. We need to ensure that we look after our farmers in Northern Ireland and across the whole United Kingdom.
Brandon Lewis
My right hon. Friend, with her huge experience in this area, is right regarding the United Kingdom and particularly Northern Ireland. I held a roundtable conversation with people in the agricultural sector in the last week or two, looking at what we can do to ensure that they can be successful both now and as we go through the process of leaving the European Union, because food security is important for the United Kingdom. The agricultural sector is hugely important in Northern Ireland, and I will continue to work with it to ensure that it is successful.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Secretary of State is right to highlight some of the positive announcements in the Budget last week and yesterday’s emergency measures, but does he accept that a huge opportunity was missed by not mentioning anything about air passenger duty? The Chancellor said last night that he will engage with the Transport Secretary imminently about what we can do to protect the aviation industry. The loss of Flybe was hugely significant to regional connectivity, and the Government will have to move on air passenger duty in the weeks to come.
Brandon Lewis
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the challenges, and we are very focused on ensuring that connectivity continues. This is a hugely important issue for us, and it is good that some of the routes that Flybe has vacated have already been picked up by organisations such as Loganair and Eastern—and hopefully by others as we go forward. With coronavirus, this is a particularly difficult time for the airline industry, which is why the Chancellor and the Transport Secretary are focused on it. I have spoken to the Transport Secretary and he is acutely aware of the importance of ensuring that we keep strong connectivity.
The hon. Gentleman is not entirely correct, in that the Budget outlined that the Treasury is taking forward a piece of consultation work around APD. I understand people’s determination to see that delivered; the Chancellor is very aware of it. We are very alert to the work that we have to do, and we will continue pressing on the importance of connectivity between GB and Northern Ireland.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The Northern Ireland economy is much more heavily based around the public sector than those of other parts of the United Kingdom, and covid-19 may make the situation even more acute. What further fiscal measures can be taken, in anticipation of a post-coronavirus future, to ensure that we redress that balance and make the Northern Ireland economy far more self-sufficient?
Brandon Lewis
My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Despite the challenges we that all face —internationally and here in the UK—due to coronavirus, there are really good opportunities in the wider economy for Northern Ireland. He is right about the differential between the private and public sectors, which is one of the reasons why we have put such substantial support into the city and growth deals, which offer a huge opportunity for economic growth in Northern Ireland and job creation through the private sector. Obviously, we have the very substantial package that the Chancellor announced last night, including some very important and large numbers—circa £900 million for Northern Ireland —and I will repeat the point that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have made: for the benefit the United Kingdom, we will do whatever it takes.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
On air passenger duty, I reiterate the concern about stresses on small and regional airports such as Belfast. What goes on in Belfast links with Southampton and Bournemouth. I know that the Secretary of State is very alive to this, but will he have conversations with the Transport Secretary to find out when the review on APD will be brought forward?
Brandon Lewis
I can assure my right hon. Friend that the conversation between myself, the Transport Secretary and the Chancellor on the issue is ongoing. We are very focused on ensuring that there is good connectivity around the whole United Kingdom. I appreciate that Eastern is an important airline for connectivity around various regions. A number of other airlines are looking at picking up the routes for Belfast. We must also make sure that we have good connectivity with Derry/Londonderry and other places around the whole United Kingdom. We will look to deal with that as quickly as we can despite the challenges of coronavirus, which will make this a very difficult time for the airline industry, as per the Chancellor’s comments last night.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Robin Walker)
Northern Ireland is renowned for bus manufacturing, including Wrightbus’s New Routemaster hybrid model, which is famously operating around London today, and I know that the new owners are pioneering hydrogen technology. As part of “New Decade, New Approach”, the UK Government are providing £50 million to support the roll-out of ultra low emission public transport in Northern Ireland. I am in no doubt that Northern Ireland manufacturers will continue to lead the way in developing these next-generation buses.
John Spellar
I thank the Minister for that reply, and it is very welcome that money is going to electric buses and, indeed, ultra low emission buses, including hydrogen technology, but when I contacted my local bus company, National Express, it confirmed that the 29 vehicles already ordered are being built in Britain, but would not commit for future orders. It went on to express a hope that capacity would grow with demand—not just from it, but from other operators. Does the Minister agree that there is a real role for the Government here, and will he push for a whole of Government and industry approach to ensure that cash flowing into electric and low emission buses benefits bus builders in the United Kingdom, including Wrights in Ballymena?
Mr Walker
The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. As he will know, the Prime Minister announced new funding to overhaul bus links in England and made a commitment to at least 4,000 new zero-emission buses. We want to work with the industry to ensure that those buses are flowing through to orders to all those UK companies, including, as he says, Wrights in Ballymena.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
I agree whole- heartedly with the question that has just been asked. On an immediate strategy for bus builders and bus operators, the Government could underwrite Transport for London, Birmingham buses, Translink and National Express, encourage them to make the orders that they have already indicated that they wish to make over the next year, and put at least £100 million of liquidity into manufacturing in Northern Ireland and across the UK overnight. That would cost the taxpayer nothing— they are paying for this anyway—but it would allow manufacturers to continue and employees to have surety of employment and the ability to put bread on the table. I urge the Government to adopt this strategy.
Mr Walker
I always listen carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s representations, and I am very happy to discuss that with colleagues at the Department for Transport. Further details are being developed alongside our national bus strategy, which we expect to publish later this year, but I absolutely understand the importance of the issues he raises and, as I say, I am happy to undertake that discussion.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)
The Government are committed to engagement with the business community in Northern Ireland in relation to the protocol and our future trading arrangements with the EU. I have had the opportunity to engage with a range of business representatives in Northern Ireland in recent weeks, and I look forward to continuing positive and constructive discussions in the weeks and months ahead.
Alex Cunningham
The Secretary of State says that there will be no border down the Irish sea or across the island of Ireland. The fact that the Government are intent on diverging from existing standards, however, means that checks of some sort will have to take place in Northern Ireland. What kind of checks does he think will be necessary? On the basis that there will be very real barriers to trade, will he take personal responsibility for the ensuing mess?
Brandon Lewis
The hon. Gentleman should have more faith in our ability as a country to deal with technical matters. We are considering the best way to ensure that we implement the protocol, and we will discuss that with the EU in the joint committee—the specialised committee created under the withdrawal agreement, which will meet for the first time very soon. We are clear that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and we will have unfettered access.
Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con)
I am sure that we all wish to give our best wishes to my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, who is making good progress following hip surgery. I hope that I will not have to deputise for him for much longer.
What discussions has the Secretary of State had with those involved in the Lough Neagh eel fishery, who face the triple challenge of an uncertain trading future with the European Union, the effect of the coronavirus on their important markets in Belgium and Holland, and the possible re-designation of the European eel under convention on international trade in endangered species regulations once we have left the European Union?
Brandon Lewis
I add my good wishes to my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), who is recuperating. I have been in contact with him this morning; understandably, he continues to take a keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland.
These are unprecedented and challenging times for many sectors. The Chancellor has announced a package of support for business and indicated further measures, if required, for the coming days. I will raise the issue of the specific group mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill) with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I assure my right hon. Friend that my hon. Friend the Minister of State has been dealing with this and met that group recently, and we will continue to take this forward.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
On a recent visit to Belfast, EU officials and Michel Barnier made it quite clear to the business community that they expected a hard border in the Irish sea and, secondly, that they expected the Government to start implementing the things that need to be done to put that in place. Given that the Government have a different interpretation of the withdrawal agreement from the EU, will the Secretary of State assure us that no steps will be taken to put a physical, administrative or electronic border in the Irish sea, which would disrupt trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain?
Brandon Lewis
The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I am happy to be very clear about this. We are determined to deliver on the agreements not only in the protocol, but in the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, so that we ensure there is no border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and there will be no border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. There will be no hard border in the Irish sea.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Robin Walker)
The Government have been engaging on this issue with the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, which is contracted to provide booking services for women travelling to England to access abortion services. Flights have been rebooked for anyone affected by the collapse of Flybe to ensure access for women and girls. The Government continue to fund all the costs of the procedure, including travel and, where needed, accommodation. We are also working closely with the devolved Administrations, the Department for Transport and airlines to identify opportunities and to encourage them to act quickly to fill routes that are vital for local communities and business. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State mentioned, a number of routes have already been taken up.
Dame Diana Johnson
I thank the Minister for that answer but, of course, abortion was decriminalised in October 2019 and we now see the lost opportunity of this medical procedure not being provided over the last six months in Northern Ireland. The failure to do that means that we are now in a much more difficult position with covid-19. Has the Minister given any more thought to what other action he could take to ensure that services are available to women in Northern Ireland?
Mr Walker
The Government are under a clear duty to deliver abortion reform for Northern Ireland, consistent with section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, which requires that evidence-based protocols are adopted for the provision of services in Northern Ireland. Those regulations will be laid, and the deadline for that is the end of this month.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
In the current circumstances, the priority of my party is to protect human life, including that of the unborn child. The Minister will be aware of concerns expressed by members of my party, including the First Minister, about the decision to press on with regulations on abortion in Northern Ireland, despite the Assembly being restored and this being a clear breach of the devolution settlement. Will the Minister heed the calls from Northern Ireland politicians for this matter to be dealt with by the Assembly, not this Parliament?
Mr Walker
I recognise the strong views on all sides on this issue. I also recognise the constitutional challenge, but the deadlines within which we have to act were clearly set by Parliament. It was clear that if the Assembly was not in place by the deadline in October, the Government would be under a legal obligation to lay the regulations by March. That is the obligation under which we are acting.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)
Northern Ireland is in, and remains part of, the United Kingdom’s customs territory. The protocol makes that clear. It ensures unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain, and the arrangements we introduce will reflect that. We will discuss the implementation of the protocol with the EU at the joint committee later this month.
Wendy Chamberlain
At a time when many people have sadly been thrown into economic turmoil, it is incredibly important that wherever the Government can eliminate economic uncertainty, they do so. There is no area more clouded by uncertainty due to our departure from the EU than the Irish border and its regulatory future. Given that the Government have committed to doing “whatever it takes”, will the Secretary of State commit to removing that uncertainty by extending the Brexit transition period by one year?
Brandon Lewis
I do not think that anyone around the United Kingdom would thank us for extending the period. The election was very clear in giving us a mandate to deliver on our manifesto pledge to leave the European Union, and we are determined to do that. The certainty that we can give to business is that Northern Ireland is, will be and will always remain part of the United Kingdom’s customs territory and will have unfettered access.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Robin Walker)
The Government have made it clear on many occasions that we will never be neutral in expressing our support for the Union. I believe that the UK Government working with the restored Executive to continue making Northern Ireland a great place to live, work and do business is one of the best ways we can strengthen its place in the Union. As part of the Union, Northern Ireland benefits from being part of the world’s sixth largest economy, and that allows for the pooling of risks and the sharing of resources to fund public spending, such as on defence, education and our national health service.
Ben Everitt
These are unprecedented times and our Union is incredibly precious to us. I am sure that the Minister will join me in welcoming the additional powerful financial support for Northern Ireland from the UK Government that was announced by our right hon. Friend the Chancellor for Northern Ireland to deal with covid-19.
Mr Walker
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a strong package of measures to support the UK economy at a very difficult time. The Chancellor has said that the Government will do “whatever it takes”. Yesterday’s announcement, as we discussed during last night’s Adjournment debate, will result in an additional £640 million for the Northern Ireland Executive, taking the total covid-19-related Barnett consequentials to more than £900 million.
Mary Robinson
In the absence of a functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 made it a legal requirement for the UK Government to implement an abortion framework before the end of March this year. The Government are yet to respond to the consultation that they set up to inform the framework. However, in the spirit of devolution, does my hon. Friend agree that now that the Northern Ireland Executive is up and running, this should rightly be a matter for the devolved representatives?
Mr Walker
The Government understand the strength of feeling about this issue. We have always been clear that the best way to bring forward reform in this area would have been for the Executive and Assembly to take that forward in the best interests of Northern Ireland. However, the Government are under a clear legal duty, which this House put on it, to make regulations that provide lawful access to abortion services in Northern Ireland by 31 March 2020. To comply with the legal requirement, we will shortly lay regulations in Parliament. It will be a matter for the Department of Health in Northern Ireland to commission the new services.
Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)
I know the Minister will agree that underlying the strength of Northern Ireland are commitments to the Good Friday and Stormont House agreements. This morning the Secretary of State made a statement about legacy. That seems to override the need for five-party consultation on this matter, and to override the need for co-operation between the Governments here in London and in Dublin. When will the Secretary of State come to the House so that he can be questioned on this matter of enormous importance to the future—if you like—of the Union, and certainly to stability in Northern Ireland?
Mr Walker
Our commitment to the Good Friday agreement and its successors is absolutely intact and 100%—and the Secretary of State is, of course, answering questions in the House today—but it is also clear that the first step we are taking on this is to engage with the parties and, indeed, with the Irish Government. That is clear from the written statement that the Secretary of State has published.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Robin Walker)
The UK Government are committed to prioritising the environment. As a world leader in tackling climate change, we are the first major economy in the world to legislate for a net zero target. Following the restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive, Northern Ireland Ministers have been in contact with Executive Ministers on a range of issues. The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, which leads on environmental issues in Northern Ireland, has recently sought views on an environment strategy for Northern Ireland, and I understand that a summary of its findings will be published in spring this year.
Kerry McCarthy
In its submission to the consultation, Sustrans said:
“It is unacceptable there is no specific climate change legislation in Northern Ireland”
which
“would allow specific policies to be developed to meet emissions targets and adapt…to… risks.”
Given the close connection between the climate emergency and the natural environment emergency, is it not time that Northern Ireland was able to legislate so that it could develop its own climate strategy?
Mr Walker
The hon. Lady has raised an important point. We want to work closely with the Northern Ireland Executive on this issue. Clearly these are devolved issues, and I think that the Executive’s response to the consultation on environment strategy will be key to addressing that question.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)
We continue to consider the best way to implement the protocol, and I will be discussing that with the EU in the joint committee and specialised committees. I am in frequent contact with the Prime Minister as we prepare for these meetings.
Gavin Newlands
Last month it was extensively reported that the Prime Minister had ordered his officials to “get round” the Northern Ireland protocol. I accept that his Government have said that they will comply with their obligations, and rightly so. Can the Secretary of State tell the House whether the Prime Minister said those words, or anything remotely like them?
Brandon Lewis
I always find it best not to take as writ whatever rumours may be picked up in any newspaper article. What can be taken as writ is what we have said at the Dispatch Box and what we have said as a Government. There will be unfettered access between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, and Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom’s customs territory.
Anne McLaughlin
What discussions and consultations has the Secretary of State had with the new Northern Ireland Executive about the protocol, and what specific—I emphasise the word “specific”—input will they have on its implementation?
Brandon Lewis
Obviously I talk regularly to the Northern Ireland Executive, particularly the First and Deputy First Minister. I currently speak to them several times a week on a range of issues. We have discussed the protocol, but we will also be discussing it with the European special committee. We are determined to deliver on the protocol in a manner that ensures that there is no border down the Irish sea, and that there is unfettered access for the whole United Kingdom.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
I know the Secretary of State will agree that the coronavirus crisis is causing deep and genuine concern to businesses, communities and individuals across Northern Ireland. Given that burden and the current real uncertainty, does he not also agree that now is not the right time to impose new customs and trading arrangements in Northern Ireland, and that the Brexit transition phase must now be extended well beyond the end of this year?
Brandon Lewis
I refer the hon. Lady to the answer that I gave a few moments ago. The British public want to see us deliver on our promises, and the Prime Minister is rightly determined to ensure that we do that. The best certainty that we can give businesses in Northern Ireland is that, as part of the United Kingdom, they will continue to have unfettered access, and to benefit from the trade deals that we seek to establish around the world.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Can the Minister further outline the plans in place to ensure that, post December 2020, the UK works and moves as one entity and that Northern Ireland is not precluded from alignment with its biggest market, mainland GB?
Brandon Lewis
We are absolutely determined to make sure we deliver the protocol in a way that, as we have said, ensures we deliver on our word that Northern Ireland has unfettered access to Great Britain, is part of the United Kingdom economy, is part of the United Kingdom customs union and will benefit from our trade deals around the world.
Mr Speaker
Order. I would like just to make a very short statement.
Those watching our proceedings will have noticed that our attendance today is significantly below the normal numbers. I have discussed with the usual channels ways in which we can limit the number of people crowded together to ensure maximum safety. We are all doing our best to keep Parliament sitting and to follow Public Health England guidance.
Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)
The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson)
The whole House will want to join me in paying tribute to Lance Corporal Brodie Gillon, a reservist medic of the Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry, who was tragically killed in Iraq last week. My thoughts and deepest sympathies are with her family and loved ones at this very difficult time.
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
Rob Butler
Like many others in the United Kingdom, my constituents in Aylesbury are understandably deeply concerned about covid-19, and I pay tribute to staff at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, Bucks social services and everyone in the community who is helping those with the virus or in isolation. Can my right hon. Friend assure the people of Aylesbury, and everybody in the country, that the Government will take whatever action is needed and spend whatever money is needed to save lives and protect livelihoods?
The Prime Minister
I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the staff at Stoke Mandeville and to all the staff in our fantastic NHS for the way they are coping at this extremely difficult time. We not only put another £5 billion into the NHS last week, as he heard from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, but we will certainly do whatever it takes and provide whatever funding is necessary to help our NHS through this crisis and, indeed, to support the whole country with Government-guaranteed loans, as he will have heard yesterday.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
Thank you for your statement, Mr Speaker. I thank MPs for the very responsible approach they have taken to today’s Question Time by sitting a suitable distance apart to avoid cross-fertilisation of this horrible disease.
I also want to join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Lance Corporal Brodie Gillon, who was killed in Iraq last week. Our thoughts are with her family and friends.
Today people are mourning the loss of loved ones, and many more will be suffering from the effects of coronavirus, including those already losing work or losing their jobs who are worried about whether they can keep a roof over their head. Our greatest thanks must go to the frontline medical and public health staff who are fighting to combat the spread of the disease, to the public servants, particularly postal workers, who have made such sacrifices today, and to the cleaners who are providing vital support. We must also thank those working round the clock to make sure our shops and warehouses are stocked with the essential food supplies that everybody needs.
We on these Benches will do our duty to hold the Government to account. Together, we need to ensure that the most effective action is taken to protect people, and it is in that spirit that I ask questions of the Prime Minister today.
Every member of the public will make sacrifices in the effort to stop the spread of coronavirus, but those on low pay, self-employed workers and small business owners are understandably worried. Sue wrote to me this week. Her family is in isolation, and she says the current £94.25 a week statutory sick pay is
“not enough to pay for their food shopping.”
Can the Prime Minister do what the Chancellor repeatedly refused to do yesterday and pledge to increase statutory sick pay to European levels?
The Prime Minister
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the way in which the Opposition have approached the issue generally and for the co-operation so far between our Front Benches on this matter. As he rightly says, this is a national emergency, and we are asking the public to do things and take actions in a way that is unprecedented for a Government in peacetime, and perhaps even unprecedented in the last century.
When we ask people to take action to isolate themselves if they or a member of their household has the disease, or to take steps that jeopardise businesses and cause people to risk losing their job, it is absolutely right that, whatever their circumstances, we should ensure workers get the support they need. So in addition to the package of business support that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor outlined yesterday, we will be working with the unions and colleagues across the House, and bringing forward further measures to support workers of all kinds throughout this crisis.
Jeremy Corbyn
UK sick pay levels lag far behind those of European counterparts. The Scandinavian countries are giving many people 100% of wages during this crisis, and I hope that when the Prime Minister brings forward proposals on this they will reflect the reality of people’s lives—you cannot feed a family on 90-odd quid a week. Those people are therefore putting everybody at risk because they have to go out to work in order to put food on the table. In order to claim statutory sick pay, workers need to prove that they earn a minimum of £118 per week, so I hope that when the Prime Minister brings forward proposals he will give confidence to the millions of people who work in low-income jobs, are in insecure work or are self-employed, and will commit to extending very much enhanced statutory sick pay to all workers.
The Prime Minister
As I have told the House before, of course we will ensure that nobody is penalised for doing the right thing, protecting not just themselves but other members of society and making sure that our NHS is able to cope. Clearly, statutory sick pay will, typically, be supplemented by other benefits, but I repeat what I said to the right hon. Gentleman: as the state is making these demands of the public and of business, it is only right that throughout this period we should be doing whatever it takes to support the workers of this country throughout this crisis.
Jeremy Corbyn
What it takes is a recognition of the social injustice and inequalities that exist in this country, and I hope that when the Prime Minister makes the proposals on statutory sick pay levels that will be recognised. A quarter of the people who are most crucial to support us in the crisis, social care staff, and almost half of home care workers are on zero-hours contracts, so they are therefore automatically not entitled to sick pay. By not extending statutory sick pay to all workers, the Government are forcing social care staff—the people who could, unwittingly, be transmitting the disease among the most vulnerable in our community—to choose between health and their own hardship.
Yesterday the Chancellor, unfortunately, offered nothing to the 20 million people living in rented homes, including 3 million households with children. These people are worried sick that they will not be able to pay their rent if they get ill, lose pay or feel that they need to self-isolate. It is in the interests of public health, of the health of all of us, that people do not feel forced to go to work in order to avoid eviction when they know that they may be spreading this terrible disease, so will the Prime Minister now confirm that the Government’s emergency legislation will protect private renters from eviction?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is making a series of very powerful points, and I can indeed confirm that we will be bringing forward legislation to protect private renters from eviction. That is one thing we will do, but it is also important that, as we legislate, we do not simply pass on the problem, so we will also be taking steps to protect other actors in the economy.
Jeremy Corbyn
We look forward to seeing the details of that, because we all represent private sector tenants in our constituencies and we know the stress that they are going through now. They need something to be said urgently about this issue, so I hope that the Government will say something as soon as possible. Today would be appropriate.
NHS staff and those who work in the care sector are on the frontline of caring for patients suffering from coronavirus. Sadly, however, those workers have no idea whether they are transmitting the virus themselves—they may not be obviously suffering from it, but they could still be transmitting it—whether they are ill or not, and what effect it will have when they return to work on the frontline. Will the Prime Minister please explain why the Government are not prioritising the testing of all healthcare staff—those in the NHS and those doing such a vital job in the care sector?
The Prime Minister
In point of fact, we are prioritising the testing of NHS staff, for the obvious reason that we want them to be able to look after everybody else with confidence that they are not transmitting the disease. This country is actually far ahead of many other comparable countries in testing huge numbers of people. We are increasing our tests from 5,000 a day to 10,000 a day. It may be of interest to the House to know that we are getting much closer to having a generally available test that will determine whether or not someone has had the disease. That will truly be of huge benefit to this country in tackling the outbreak.
Jeremy Corbyn
The World Health Organisation said “test, test, test.” We should be testing on an industrial scale. When I met the Prime Minister on Monday evening, he assured me that 10,000 tests were going on per day. That is better than none, obviously, but it is nowhere near even the number of people working in the NHS and the care sector. It is a massive undertaking and I wish there was a greater sense of urgency from the Government in getting testing available for all staff.
NHS staff are obviously on the frontline, and many are scared because the guidance has been changed to say that they do not need to wear full protective equipment when caring for patients. A senior doctor has said:
“The rest of the world is providing staff with full protective gear and we are restricting it”.
This is a doctor saying, “I am scared.” We should not be scaring doctors and nurses. Is there or is there not a policy for them to have full protective equipment? I believe that that should be the case.
The Prime Minister
Quickly, on testing, I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman that we are moving up to 25,000 tests a day.
On personal protective equipment for NHS staff, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise the issue. It is obviously of huge concern to everyone that our NHS staff should feel that they are able to interact with patients with perfect security and protection, so there is a massive effort going on, comparable to the effort to build enough ventilators, to ensure that we have adequate supplies of PPE, not just now but throughout the outbreak.
Jeremy Corbyn
Generations to come will look back on this moment and they will judge us—they will judge us on the actions we take now. Our response must be bold and it must be decisive. The market cannot deliver what is needed; only collective public action, led by Government, can protect our people and our society. That collective action must not allow the burden to fall most on those who lack the resources to cope, as happened after the financial crash. People across the country do understand the need for temporary restrictions on our way of life to protect us all, and we will work with the Government, but the Prime Minister must understand that that will require balancing action to protect the most insecure and vulnerable, in the interests of public health as well as of social justice. The health of us all depends on the health of the most vulnerable, so I ask the Prime Minister: will he step up now—not tomorrow—and give support to those vulnerable people who live on the margins of our society, who are vulnerable themselves and make us all vulnerable, and give them the support and the assurance that they are desperately searching for today?
The Prime Minister
Indeed I can, and that is why we have announced another £500 million to go straight to councils to help them immediately with the needs of the poorest and the most vulnerable; that is why we have announced immediate cash injections into business, to help them through an unquestionably very difficult time; and that is why will be bringing forward further measures to ensure that every worker receives support throughout this difficult period.
Be in no doubt: the right hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the unprecedented nature of this crisis. We are asking the public to do quite extraordinary things and we are asking business to shoulder quite extraordinary burdens. But the more effectively we can work together to comply with the very best scientific advice, which is what has actuated this Government throughout the crisis—which is what has guided this Government throughout the crisis—the better our chances of relieving the burden on the NHS; the more lives we will save and the more suffering we will avoid; and the quicker we will get through it. Be in no doubt that—the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right—this is an enormous challenge for this country, but I think the people of this country understand what they need to do to beat it. They also, I think, understand that we will beat it, and that we will beat it together.
Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I congratulate my hon. Friend on what he is doing for Bassetlaw Hospital. I remember going to talk to the wonderful doctors and staff at Bassetlaw. They explained in great detail their fascinating plan for improving service for their patients. I am absolutely determined to support him and them in their ambitions. That is why we have already put £15 million into expanding emergency care capacity in Bassetlaw. My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary is working intimately with Bassetlaw to take forward the whole project.
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
I associate myself with the remarks of the Prime Minister on the killing of Lance Corporal Brodie Gillon.
This is an unprecedented emergency and it requires an unprecedented response. I welcome the fact that parties across the House, and Governments across these islands, have worked together as we attempt to protect all our peoples. It is the right approach and it is the least the public expect and deserve from us.
Yesterday the Chancellor announced a £330 billion financial package for business. Today the UK Government need to announce a financial package for people. Members from six parties across the House have expressed support for a temporary universal basic income to help everyone, especially freelancers, renters and the self-employed. Using the current tax system, will the Prime Minister stand up and give a commitment today to provide people with the security of a universal basic income?
The Prime Minister
First, I want to thank the right hon. Gentleman for the spirit in which he has spoken. Indeed, there is a huge amount of collaboration going on across all four nations of this country, as you can imagine, Mr Speaker. We are in lockstep.
What I would say on the right hon. Gentleman’s appeal for basic income is, do not underestimate the value to people of the measures that we have already announced that will support business, keep jobs going and make sure those businesses continue in existence. That must be the first step. As I have said repeatedly now to the right hon. Gentleman, the Leader of the Opposition, it is important that throughout the crisis we take steps to support workers. The right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) is quite right and the suggestion that he makes is, of course, one of many such suggestions.
Ian Blackford
I thank the Prime Minister for his answer. There is a willingness from all of us to work together as we go through this crisis, but thousands of people are already losing their jobs. It is happening today. Millions will face the same threat. They need reassurance and support, and they need it today. They need an income guarantee.
We must not repeat history. People are worried about their bills and about keeping a roof over their head. In the last financial crisis, the banks were bailed out, but ordinary people were not. The Prime Minister has it in his power to protect people’s incomes and provide them with peace of mind. At this time, an emergency universal income scheme would do just that. Will he at least commit to meeting all of us who support that proposal to discuss how we can protect the incomes of all our peoples?
The Prime Minister
Yes, indeed. I can make that commitment and I said as much in my earlier answer to the right hon. Gentleman. It is very important that, as we go forward, we try to enlist a consensus in this House about how to support people throughout the crisis. I agree profoundly with what he said about not repeating history. It is very important that, as we ask the public to do the right thing for themselves and for everybody else, no one, whatever their income, should be penalised for doing the right thing, and we will make sure that that is the case.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I pay a particular tribute not just to our amazing NHS, but to our teachers and everybody who works in our schools for everything that they have done to keep our schools going throughout this difficult crisis so far. Of course we will do everything we can to remove burdens on schools, and Ofsted is one in particular that we can address. The House should expect further decisions to be taken imminently on schools and on how we make sure that we square the circle of ensuring that we both stop the spread of disease, but relieve, as much as we can, the pressure on our NHS.
Dr Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
I completely agree with what the hon. Lady says, and I thank her for all the work that she does in the health service. I can certainly tell her that we have stockpiles of PPE equipment and that we are proceeding—it is very important for the House to understand this—in accordance with the best scientific advice, and it is the timeliness of those measures that is absolutely vital in combating the spread of the epidemic, and indeed that is how we save lives. I am delighted that the UK’s approach has been commended today not just by Neil Ferguson of Imperial College, but by Dr David Nabarro of the World Health Organisation.
Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con)
The Prime Minister
As the House will know, there is already a coalition of British manufacturers that are now working together at speed to supply the ventilators that we need. We already have 8,000, and we are moving rapidly upwards, and I will keep the House informed of developments.
The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his invitation. I am happy to consider his invitation to Rhondda and will take it up.
Chris Bryant
What I really hope is that the Prime Minister will look at the whole coronavirus crisis through the eyes of the Rhondda, because we have a large number of sole traders, chippies, electricians and plumbers. We have a lot of people in very insecure employment. We have got lots of people who are elderly and people who are on very low incomes and have next to no savings. Many people have already been laid off this week or are worried that they are going to be laid off in the next fortnight, so we really do need the Prime Minister to address these matters.
If I am honest, I do not want to be partisan, but it does feel as if we are a bit of an afterthought. I really beg the Prime Minister to look through the eyes of the Rhondda, because I think he would then double sick pay so that it is a sensible figure. I think he would introduce something like a summer version of the winter fuel allowance so that the elderly get some help. I think he would probably introduce some kind of VAT holiday for sole traders. I know he hopes, and we all hope, that the whole of the country will bounce back quickly after this, but I say to him that after the floods and the poverty that we have historically suffered in the Rhondda, communities like mine will find it phenomenally difficult to bounce back if he does not take that kind of action now.
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman speaks powerfully and passionately and, in my view, wholly rightly for the people of the Rhondda. I can tell him that our thoughts in this Government are with the people of the entire country in helping everyone to get through this virus. We will do, as I say, whatever it takes to support business and, as I said in my earlier answer to the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition, also to support individuals and families. I welcome the agreement of the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), the leader of the Scottish National party that we should do it on a cross-party basis.
Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op)
The Prime Minister
I repeat the answer I have given several times to several of the hon. Lady’s colleagues: we will do whatever it takes to ensure that all workers are protected throughout this crisis.
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con)
The Prime Minister
We are extending the hours in which deliveries can be made, and we are talking right now with the Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee about ensuring that pharmaceutical goods get at the right time to the customers who need them.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Ind)
The Prime Minister
I endorse completely the sentiment that the hon. Gentleman has just expressed about the need to do this collectively. The Government have announced a £46 million package of investment for finding a vaccine. As I have just said, a huge amount of work is going into investing in test kits, and those are changing and improving the whole time. The House will be reassured to know that this work is being done at an international level. We are working with our EU partners, the G7, the G20, the World Health Organisation and the International Monetary Fund—everybody is working together on the very issues that the hon. Gentleman raised.
Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con)
The Prime Minister
Yes. My hon. Friend identifies exactly the three priorities of this Government.
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)
Defeating the coronavirus must be the top—indeed, the only—priority for the foreseeable future. There is already huge anxiety across the UK. Businesses are facing unprecedented challenges and uncertainty, so, regardless of leave or remain, how quickly will the Prime Minister recognise the inevitable and seek at least a one-year extension to the Brexit implementation process?
The Prime Minister
Our priority is to deal with the coronavirus epidemic. The other matter that the hon. Member mentions has, as he will know, already been legislated for.
Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I can indeed confirm that that is exactly why we have cut business rates. We are making very considerable sums available for small and very small businesses precisely to protect the high street and the enterprise environment on which so many jobs depend.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
I am sure that the Prime Minister will agree that protecting our NHS staff at this crucial time is of maximum importance. At least one GP surgery in County Durham this week received surgical masks from the NHS with expiry dates of 2016 on the box. In other cases, labels had been stuck over the top, extending the expiry dates on the boxes. What assurances can the Prime Minister give not only that surgeries get the equipment they require, but that it is actually effective once they get it?
The Prime Minister
To the best of my knowledge, all the equipment we are sending out is of the correct standard. I would be happy to look at the case that the right hon. Gentleman mentions. As I said earlier, we have stockpiles of PPE, but are making huge efforts to ensure that we have enough for the outbreak ahead.
Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I wholly endorse what my hon. Friend has said. We will do whatever it takes, and we will beat it together.
Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)
Apart from rent arrears, eviction from a private tenancy—a section 21 no-fault eviction—is the biggest reason for homelessness. On Friday, I met a 77-year-old woman who had lived in her home for 15 years, and a couple caring for a sister with Down’s syndrome. Both households were due for eviction today. Will the Prime Minister ask the courts to stop section 21 evictions to take the pressure off hard-pressed councils and these really worried families?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Member is absolutely right to raise this matter, and that is why I said what I did to the Leader of the Opposition. We will indeed be bringing forward legislation to address this point.
Gareth Bacon (Orpington) (Con)
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that is why we are speeding up DBS checks, so that they can be done in 24 hours. I want to thank and congratulate all the boroughs throughout this country for the way they are harnessing those volunteers.
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
The Prime Minister talked about supporting families. Will he show his solidarity for households headed up by a single breadwinner with dependent children? Saturday is National Single Parent Day, which was initiated by Ronald Reagan in 1984. Will he join the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), who is my friend in this, on the steps of Old Palace Yard immediately after Prime Minister’s questions to show that, old or young, rich or poor, big or small, all families matter?
The Prime Minister
I could not agree more strongly with what the hon. Lady said. Whether I will be able to join her, I am not sure; I will have to look at my diary. I think I have a date with you, Mr Speaker.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend raises a very important point, but it is one that is not unknown to the medical profession, and we will be relying on the clinical decisions of those medical professionals.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
On the matter of “whatever it takes”, it takes more than three-word slogans, and in this case it takes a bit of war socialism. We need to get money into the pockets of the workers. Has the Prime Minister seen early-day motion 302, which I have proposed, about bringing in a temporary universal basic income to support workers and get money to where it is needed?
The Prime Minister
I hear the hon. Gentleman loud and clear. He echoes a point that was made by the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford). Of course, that is one of the ideas that will certainly be considered.
Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con)
My right hon. Friend is rightly engrossed day to day in dealing with the developments of covid-19, but I would like to ask him to cast his mind a little further forward. The chief scientific adviser and the chief medical officer have been clear that the best solution to this is a vaccine, but the chief scientific adviser has said that that could be as much as a year away. He has also suggested that, until that vaccine is available, it may be difficult to ease restrictions successfully. Does my right hon. Friend agree with that analysis, and if so, what does a sensible exit strategy look like?
The Prime Minister
The objective of the Government and of our scientific advisers is to depress the peak of the epidemic, to ensure that we get through it, so that we come out on the other side, and that we do that as fast as possible. That is why we are taking all the measures that we have announced. That is why we have announced the package of business support that we have. I am not going to give a timescale on it, but that is the strategy, and I am absolutely certain that it will succeed.
BILL PRESENTED
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Several Bills were just presented, but the one Bill that has not yet been presented is the one that the Government have talked about extensively, which is the emergency legislation on coronavirus. It is said that the Bill will be published tomorrow and we will deal with it on Monday. I hope that there will be a process whereby it is possible to table amendments before Second Reading, which is not the normal convention but is possible for emergency legislation. If the Government seriously intend this legislation to last for two years, I hope we will be able to table amendments to suggest that that could only be done with a review by Parliament on a regular basis.
Mr Speaker
That is on the Order Paper, and I am sure there will be time to table amendments. The message will have been taken on board that that should be made available.
Children (Access to Treatment)
Wednesday 18th March 2020
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Children (Access to Treatment) Bill 2019-21 View all Children (Access to Treatment) Bill 2019-21 Debates Read Hansard Text
A Ten Minute Rule Bill is a First Reading of a Private Members Bill, but with the sponsor permitted to make a ten minute speech outlining the reasons for the proposed legislation.
There is little chance of the Bill proceeding further unless there is unanimous consent for the Bill or the Government elects to support the Bill directly.
For more information see: Ten Minute Bills
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision about children’s access to medical treatment; and for connected purposes.
The recent case of Tafida Raqeeb was a sad example of a long line of disagreements about the treatment of seriously ill children that have ended up in court. In February last year, Tafida, then aged five, suffered a traumatic brain injury that left her on a life support machine in a hospital in London. In the autumn, contrary to the wishes of her family, the hospital trust wanted to turn off her life support. Tafida’s parents wanted to take her to Italy for further treatment, but that was challenged by the trust, which argued that it was in Tafida’s best interests that she should not be taken out of the country, and that she should instead be allowed to die. In a landmark High Court ruling in October, Tafida’s parents won the right to take her to Genoa for medical treatment. Tafida was allowed to leave the UK. She received the medical treatment she needed and, just nine weeks ago, she was taken out of intensive care. She is now breathing unaided.
In another case in 2014, Ashya King, a young boy with a brain tumour, was taken abroad, contrary to the wishes of the local trust, for proton beam therapy, which at the time was not available in the UK. Ashya’s parents were arrested in Spain for not acting in his best interests, but the High Court later ruled that he could receive the proton beam therapy in Prague. Following the therapy, which is now available in the UK, an MRI scan found that Ashya was free of cancer.
Not all cases have such successful outcomes. Those are just two of a number of cases in which a disagreement has ended up in expensive and intensive court proceedings, where judges have had to make what should be an ethical decision about medical treatment. That is a fundamental flaw in the system, which the Bill tries to remedy. It is clear to me that we do not have the appropriate support mechanisms in place to bring parents and doctors together at an early stage where there are disagreements about treatment, to properly address difficult questions that may prevent long, stressful and expensive court cases that are harmful to the child, the parents, the doctors and the hospitals.
In recent months, I have met Chris Gard and Connie Yates, the parents of Charlie, who, tragically and in highly public circumstances, passed away on 28 July 2017. Charlie was born with a rare genetic disorder, mitochondrial DNA depletion syndrome, which causes progressive brain damage and muscle failure. Following a breakdown in communication between the parents and medical professionals over an experimental treatment for mitochondrial disease, the hospital and Charlie Gard’s parents entered into a lengthy and distressing dispute involving a series of court proceedings. The case went to the High Court, the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court and even the European Court of Human Rights. It was painful for all involved: the parents, the medical professionals working at the hospital where Charlie received his treatment, and everyone else concerned.
The case clearly illustrated problems with the current dispute resolution systems. The court proceedings caused enormous emotional harm and stress to both the parents and the medical professionals. Both wanted to do what they thought was best for Charlie. Instead of a smooth and efficient process aimed at resolving the conflict, we saw huge entrenchment, and precious time was lost while Charlie’s health deteriorated. Worse, parents and medical professionals were pitted against each other in the full glare of the media. That helped no one. Since then, Connie and Chris and have dedicated themselves to preventing the escalation of conflict and protecting the doctor-patient relationship.
Those conversations, and my observation of a number of similar cases, led me to produce the Bill. I am pleased to say that I have support from hon. Members across the House, as well as from doctors—including medical ethicists and former presidents of the British Medical Association—and the wider public.
Organisations such as the Medical Mediation Foundation are already active in trying to resolve disputes between parents and doctors in various medical settings. A study by the Centre for Health Economics from the University of York also shows that, as well as saving time and taking stress out of disputes, mediation could save trusts money by resolving issues concerning treatment quicker and without the need for expensive proceedings.
Broadly, the Bill does five things, which are all geared towards addressing disagreements quickly and clarifying the legal situation so that cases are less likely to end up in court. First, it requires the Secretary of State to put in place measures to improve early access to mediation services in hospitals where conflict is in prospect. Mediation has been proven to be an effective way of re-establishing trust between parents and doctors and helping them work together to make the best decision for the child, but currently access to, and take up of, mediation services is very low.
Secondly, the Bill would provide for access to appropriate clinical ethics committees, so that both doctors and parents could be supported in making difficult decisions by impartial ethical experts. Very few hospitals have access to medical ethics committees, meaning that parents and doctors often face a postcode lottery when looking to get the appropriate ethical advice. The Bill would put provision in place for committees to come together quickly when required and ensure that doctors and parents take the step of calling for a committee at an early stage when they are faced with difficult decisions.
Thirdly, the Bill would provide the means necessary to obtain second medical opinions swiftly, ensuring that, when requested, parents would receive access to the child’s full medical data so that those second opinions were fully informed.
Fourthly, the Bill seeks to provide access to legal aid to ensure that families are not forced to employ costly legal representation or to rely on outside interest groups in order to fund representation in the courts. Finally, the Bill would create a new legal test of whether an alternative credible medical treatment could cause a child “disproportionate risk of significant harm” in order to decide whether a parent is able to seek that treatment for their child. This test would replicate the legal test already used by social services considering whether to remove a child from their parents’ care and would sit before, rather than replacing, the current “best interests” test, which is very broad and can be subject to a number of different interpretations. The clarity brought by this test would, in turn, bring more certainty around the likely outcome of a legal decision and therefore prevent cases from ending up in court.
It is my view, and the consensus view of medical ethics, that if a treatment is not harmful and reputable doctors are willing to provide it, no one should be prevented from seeking that treatment, and the new test of “disproportionate risk of significant harm” aims to clarify this.
Most of all, the underlying aim of this Bill is to prevent conflict between doctors and parents and help support them as they work together during very stressful and upsetting situations. Conflicts are bad for doctors, bad for parents, bad for our NHS and bad for the children whose care is under consideration. The frequency of these cases and the obvious distress they cause all parties have led me to believe that the legal system in this regard is in desperate need of reform. I hope that my parliamentary colleagues will agree with me on this. I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Ordered,
That Bambos Charalambous, Seema Malhotra, Emma Hardy, Sir Roger Gale, Preet Kaur Gill, Ruth Cadbury, Mr Virendra Sharma, Sir David Amess, Tim Loughton, Kerry McCarthy, Kate Hollern and Taiwo Owatemi present the Bill.
Bambos Charalambous accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 20 June, and to be printed (Bill 119).
Opposition Day
Statutory Sick Pay and Protection for Workers
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of Statutory Sick Pay and protection available for all workers.
This is an international crisis, where countries need to learn from each other about what is working and what additional steps need to be taken. We also need to come together as a country to support each other as the severity of the crisis is becoming clearer. A Public Health England document estimates that the coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until this time next year and could lead to almost 8 million people being hospitalised. The impact will be felt not just by those who become ill or have to self-isolate; this public health crisis has exposed the fault lines in an economy in which insecure, low-paid work is so prevalent.
In the Budget last week, and again yesterday, the Chancellor announced measures to support business, but there was a glaring omission when it came to workers on low income and those who are unable to work. PHE warns:
“It is estimated that at least 10% of people in the UK will have a cough at any one time during the months of peak Covid-19 activity.”
The revised health advice is that anyone with a cough should self-isolate for at least seven days, and for 14 days if they live with other people. It is right that people should not go on working when they are not well, but the Government’s measures so far still leave many people facing a cruel choice between their health and financial hardship, and it is a choice that has an impact on the health of the people with whom they come into contact.
In response to the questions from the Leader of the Opposition, the Prime Minister said that he would bring forward a package of measures relating to statutory sick pay. We really do need the details on that as a matter of urgency.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
In order to claim statutory sick pay, workers need to prove that they are earning a minimum of £118 per week. So does my hon. Friend agree that rather than just regurgitating vacuous soundbites such as “whatever it takes”, the Government need to bring the statutory sick pay levels up from the current paltry £94.25 a week, which is not enough to even feed one’s family, to European levels and to extend it to all workers?
Margaret Greenwood
My hon. Friend makes a couple of important points about the levels of pay and the people who are able to access it, and I will be coming on to deal with those things in my speech.
Some 7 million people are not eligible for statutory sick pay: just under 2 million workers on low income do not qualify because they earn less than the £118 on average; and 5 million self-employed people do not qualify. Those on low pay are some of those who will be hit hardest by the crisis. Many of them work in retail, hospitality and leisure, and we are also hearing of people being laid off in these sectors. Others will be concerned that their jobs may be at risk, and these anxieties could also make them more likely to carry on working, even if they are unwell. Nearly 1 million people are on zero-hours contracts. Analysis by the TUC found that the earnings of about a third of them do not meet the threshold for SSP, compared with a figure of 6% for permanent employees, and women figure highly in the number of people on zero-hours contracts. Overall, about 70% of workers who would benefit from the removal of the threshold are women. A Government consultation published last year highlighted that workers who do not earn enough to qualify for SSP may be “working when unwell”. It said that the Government believed that there was a case to extend eligibility for SSP to people earning less than the threshold. So will they now extend SSP to all workers, including those on low pay.
Along with the just under 2 million people whose earnings are too low to qualify, others on low income in the gig economy are not eligible because they are classified as self-employed. They include careworkers, cleaners and delivery drivers, the very people on whom we will be depending to an even greater degree than usual in the coming weeks and months as people have to self-isolate in greater numbers. My hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) has rightly highlighted, in a letter to the Government signed by 100 colleagues, that although NHS England has issued guidance advising trusts to give full sick pay to staff who have to self-isolate because of the disease, careworkers on zero-hours contracts will not be protected. They make up a quarter of the social care workforce. Will the Government ensure that they also qualify for full sick pay? In the case of delivery drivers, the GMB has worked with Hermes to agree on a fund to protect the income of drivers who fall sick or who have to self-isolate, but there are other examples of companies offering derisory payments or even requiring drivers to continue to meet the costs of renting vans even while they receive sick pay. We should not need to emphasise how important it is that people in occupations where they are going from one house to another should not go on working when unwell. We depend on people such as carers and drivers, and the Government have a responsibility to protect them if they are unable to work because of the outbreak.
There is also a case to extend statutory sick pay to the self-employed more generally, as the Irish Government have done. Many people who are disabled and who have been ill, for example, choose self-employment because of the flexibility that it can give them to choose hours that are manageable. However, they also may be now more vulnerable to the virus.
The level of statutory sick pay is far too low at only £94.25 a week, so even those who do qualify for it are likely to struggle to keep on top of even basic household bills. Average weekly earnings are currently £512, meaning that the average worker who has to self-isolate for 14 days will see their income fall by more than £850 during that time.
Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)
Is the hon. Member aware that research undertaken by the Institute for the Future of Work absolutely backs up everything she is saying about putting the statutory floor in place so that people can economically contribute when it is right for them to do so? There is much more resilience in the general population and they have more ability to work when they are fit to do so when such measures are in place.
Margaret Greenwood
The hon. Lady makes a really excellent point, and I thank her for it. Many workers on low pay are unlikely to have savings to fall back on either. In a recent YouGov survey, 48% of workers said that they would not be able to cover their rent or mortgage and other living expenses if they had to take two weeks off work at the current statutory sick pay rates. The European Committee of Social Rights found in January 2018 that statutory sick pay and social protections for the unemployed, sick and self-employed people in the UK were “manifestly inadequate”.
A worker in the UK on the national minimum wage who has to self-isolate will receive less than a third of what they would in Germany and less than half of what they would in Sweden or the Netherlands. The level of statutory sick pay is also set lower than the national living wage, which the Government said in the Budget that they want to increase. Will the Government therefore raise statutory sick pay to at least the level of the real living wage so that people are not pushed into poverty by doing the right thing?
The Government’s approach has been to say that people on low income who are not eligible for statutory sick pay can claim universal credit or new-style ESA. That is not the answer. Universal credit acts as a vehicle for cuts and the level of support is simply too low.
The four-year benefits freeze will only come to an end in April, and, as a result, families living in poverty have been left £560 a year worse off on average, so will the Government raise the level of social security payments in order to build resilience in people facing the virus? The five-week wait for the payment of universal credit means that there will remain a risk that people will go on working when unwell. The Government say that people can request an advance, but advances are loans that have to be paid back, often on top of other debts built up during that period, so will the Government commit to ending the five-week wait, and will they change their loan into a non-repayable advance?
The truth is that people often have to rely on food banks to survive as well as on advances during the first five weeks, and often after that, as deductions are made from the universal credit when it finally does arrive. However, there are reports that panic buying by the public is leading to food banks running short. People using food banks cannot afford to stock up and so are disadvantaged still further.
The Government should be taking measures to protect people in poverty in the current situation. Will the Government immediately suspend deductions from social security for anyone who becomes ill or is forced to self-isolate, and consider suspending them for all other claimants? Will the Government suspend work search requirements for anyone directly affected by the virus, and will the Government suspend all sanctions?
In the Budget, the Chancellor also suggested that some people who become ill but do not qualify for statutory sick pay could claim new-style ESA. That is £73.10 a week, even lower than statutory sick pay. Someone who is ill as a result of the coronavirus or for any other reason should not also be pushed into poverty and left worrying about how they will cope financially, so will the Government raise the level of new-style ESA payments? Even to get that, someone has to have built a contribution record over the past two years, which people in insecure work in particular may find difficult to do.
The Government announced that they were temporarily suspending face-to-face assessments for sickness and disability benefits. That is welcome as far as it goes, and Opposition Members have been highlighting the major problems with how assessments are carried out for a long time, but the Government have said that this approach would be replaced by telephone or paper-based assessments. That could risk increasing pressure on GPs at a time when they are already overrun, so can the Government tell us clearly how assessments will be carried out during the outbreak?
Media reporting of the virus highlighted that the most at risk had underlying health conditions, so what is the Government’s response to Mind’s call for all reassessments to be suspended to give people security of income at this time? What action will the Secretary of State take to protect people who care for a loved one who was already ill or disabled before the crisis began? Neither person may be directly affected by the virus, but attending a jobcentre could leave the carer at greater risk of contracting the virus.
The truth is that social security changes aimed solely at people who are self-isolating or ill will not be enough. Other people will be affected by the crisis. The Government have said that they will suspend the minimum income floor in universal credit for self-employed people directly affected. Will they also suspend the minimum income floor for all workers, given that many will be affected as a result of the crisis and the impact on the economy?
The demands on the DWP will be considerable, and its own staff may be forced to self-isolate or take time off because of illness as a result of the outbreak. What will the Government do to ensure that the service can continue? We are calling on them to do all that they can to introduce a form of robust, generous and comprehensive income protection for those whose hours may be cut or who may be asked to take unpaid leave because of the impact of the crisis. In some cases that will be because of a fall in the number of customers, but if schools have to close at some point, there will also be parents who are not ill and do not have to self-isolate, but who are unable to go on working, at least full-time. The Danish Government have just announced a scheme that would involve their paying 75% of people’s wages in those circumstances, and businesses paying the remaining 25%. A similar scheme successfully limited redundancies in Germany during the financial crisis.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making some excellent comments. I understand that a major international fast food chain has told its employees that if a branch has to close because of infection, business being quiet or Government action, the employees will receive only statutory sick pay, and those on zero-hours contracts will get nothing. Does my hon. Friend agree that that will make it harder for employees to do the right thing, and that it constitutes exploitative behaviour on the part of the employers which must be condemned and stopped?
Margaret Greenwood
My hon. Friend has made a very important point, highlighting the vulnerability of people in insecure work who do not have enough support and also the levels of statutory sick pay, which are not sufficient to cover people during the crisis.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. May I echo the point that she made about Denmark? I understand that both the French and the Italian Governments are seeking to introduce exactly the same system to support workers who would otherwise be laid off. The money is being paid directly to companies to ensure that they can retain those employees and the business can be kept alive as well.
Margaret Greenwood
That too is a very important point. The Labour party is working with the TUC and others on a package of measures, and looking at the Danish model in particular.
We want people to be reassured that they will not lose their jobs and their income, so they can go on spending. That would prevent a sharp fall in demand, and would also ease business confidence, as firms would see the Government take on part of their wage bill. It is an approach that involves employers, trade unions and the Government working together to preserve jobs and protect people from poverty. We are calling on the Government to explore these options, and we are prepared to work in partnership to make that happen.
There is a real danger that people who have already been pushed to the margins of our society will be worst affected by this crisis, and those who are struggling on low incomes, are disabled or are unable to work will be affected particularly badly. As I have said, we are working with the TUC and others on a range of measures to extend and raise statutory sick pay, abolish the five-week wait and sanctions, and provide income and wage support along the lines of the Danish model. We also wish to join in discussions with the Prime Minister about emergency universal basic income. We need leadership from the Government to ensure that all are protected if they fall ill, are forced to self-isolate, see their jobs at risk, or face unemployment. More than ever, we need leadership and policies that reflect the responsibility we all have for one another.
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Justin Tomlinson)
We are in extraordinary times. The coronavirus pandemic is the most serious public health emergency that our nation has faced for a generation, but the Government will do whatever it takes to get our nation through it. We all need to pull together. We can, must and will get through this.
Before I proceed to the main part of my speech, I want to pay tribute to all our fantastic staff, particularly those on the front line who are doing their level best, where they can, to enable some of the most vulnerable people in society to continue to receive benefits, and to enable those who now need to gain access to those benefits to do so. The spirit of this debate shows Parliament at its best—we are all seeking to work in partnership.
These are uncharted times, and there are new things coming forward. I have talked to lots of stakeholders in the past few days as we have made announcements about our Department. In normal times, we could spend 18 months developing policies—testing them, carrying out engagement up and down the country, and talking to people with real-life experiences to make sure there are no unintended consequences—but we are on a daily basis having to review things. It is a credit to the Opposition that this debate is being conducted in a spirit of partnership, so that we can look at and feed in things that need to be considered to provide further support—I know that more support will come forward on a daily basis.
Our policy is to protect lives and fight this virus with everything we have. Everyone should follow Government guidance to control the spread of the disease. Those who have a high temperature or a new contagious cough, and those who share a home with people presenting these symptoms, should stay at home in self-isolation for 14 days. Everyone should avoid unnecessary travel and social contact with others, and people who can do so should work from home. That will help to protect the NHS and safeguard the most vulnerable.
I reassure the House that the Government will provide a safety net and support for individuals during this testing time. Everybody will be supported to do the right thing, and the Government will help employers to support their employees to do the right thing.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Minister is very dutiful in doing his job, for which I thank him, but I have had contact today from a mother who is isolating because of her child. Is she eligible for sick pay from the Government, or does she have to take unpaid dependants’ leave, which would be very unfair? Just how can that work?
Justin Tomlinson
When people in work are isolating due to Government guidance, which seems to be the case in the circumstances that the hon. Gentleman describes, they would be eligible for statutory sick pay through their employers. In addition, it is always worth their looking on gov.uk to see whether they can get additional support through the welfare system, whether universal credit or new-style ESA.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Like the Minister and other hon. Members, I am looking to be collaborative, as I generally try to be, particularly in this type of circumstance, but the issue raised by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) typifies the confusion surrounding the guidance and support for people, which was why my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) recommended at Prime Minister’s questions some form of minimum income guarantee that would cover all these issues and mean that people could just do what is right at the right time without having to worry about the financial consequences. Is the Department looking at that?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman. I have said many times at the Dispatch Box that I admire the way that he contributes and offers support in trying to help some of the most vulnerable people in society. There were two aspects to his question, the first of which was about general communication. These are fast-moving events, and all constituency MPs are getting a lot of correspondence that asks very reasonable questions. We are trying to give answers that are as good as possible, but we really have to keep pushing people towards the gov.uk website, on which there is consistent communication. On the second point about a minimum net, that is where the welfare system comes into play, because statutory sick pay—it is important, and I will go over that—applies in only some cases, whereas the welfare safety net applies to all who need it.
Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)
I believe the Minister will know that cross-party working is in my DNA, and I really do want to do everything I can to make sure we get this right. This is a personal but pertinent point: my son Stuart is self-employed; he has a wife who has had dialysis since she was 14, and a 10-year-old son, Liam. They are all self-isolating; Stuart does not have an income. They live in rented accommodation and utilities are essential to keep the dialysis going. I have a very frightened family and very many frightened constituents. We would be most grateful for any clarification on what we can do.
Justin Tomlinson
I have worked very closely with the hon. Lady on a number of issues, and I know that she is held in huge respect across both sides of the House.
Prior to being an MP, I ran my own business, so I understand the concerns of self-employed people who have suddenly overnight seen dramatic changes to their cash flow and ability to trade as a business. I absolutely understand the worries that people will have, which is why we are allowing access to statutory sick pay or, depending on people’s personal circumstances, looking at whether they can turn to new-style ESA—the contributory benefit—which is probably the case for the self-employed, or the wider support offer through universal credit and the welfare net. People would need to look at their circumstances and talk to the jobcentres. We are all trying to do our best to provide as much certainty as possible, as quickly as possible, through the daily updates.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Minister will know that many people are really worried about the financial impact of self-isolation, whether they are sick or not. He has mentioned sick pay a few times and the alternatives of universal credit and ESA, but those sums simply will not pay the rent or the bills, or put food on the table. The Minister also mentioned the speed at which action is needed and how much faster his Department is having to react then normal. If it takes till next week to put in place legislation, many more people will have not taken action to protect themselves and everybody else. Action is needed now and people need the money now. Will he please respond on that point?
Justin Tomlinson
I absolutely understand the point that the hon. Member makes. These are extraordinary times, and collectively we are all trying to identify the right levels of support as quickly as possible. In pure cash terms, the fiscal support that we have already provided at this stage of the curve is almost the highest around the world, but this is not complete. As events progress, we have to do more and we can expect more announcements. I understand that in an ideal world we could announce everything straight away, but we have to make sure that it is right, we have to react as things come forward, and we have to communicate as quickly and clearly as possible. We do understand that.
Justin Tomlinson
Let me make a little progress, because I think I am about to cover some of the things being asked about. I promise that I will take more interventions.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, which is why we have extended statutory sick pay to those who are self-isolating in line with the latest Government health guidance. The guidance is available online on gov.uk and ensures that eligible individuals, whether they are sick or self-isolating, will be entitled to statutory sick pay if they are unable to work because they are following Government advice.
The upcoming emergency Bill will mean that for people affected by coronavirus, statutory sick pay will be payable from day one, instead of day four, and currently it will be backdated to 13 March. We removed those waiting days to get support to people as quickly as possible. These are crucial measures to ensure that employees do not attend work when they should stay at home to help to keep themselves and others safe. The circumstances are exceptional and we urge employers to do the right thing, use their discretion and respect the medical need to self-isolate.
Statutory sick pay is a legal minimum, and employers can offer more. Where possible, employers should support their employees to work from home to help to slow the spread of the virus. If employers do feel the need to require evidence, people who are advised to self-isolate for coronavirus will soon be able to obtain an alternative to the fit note by contacting NHS 111 rather than visiting a doctor. We are all aware of the need to protect GP surgeries so that they can concentrate on key areas of work.
Accordingly, the Government will ensure that businesses are supported to deal with the temporary economic impact of the outbreak of coronavirus. Small and medium-sized enterprises are at the heart of our economy, symbolising the hard work and enterprising spirit of our nation. To support such employers with the increased costs of sick pay, the emergency Bill will provide that employers with fewer than 250 employees can reclaim up to two weeks’ statutory sick pay for sickness absences related to coronavirus. That includes those who are required to self-isolate in line with Government guidance. The measure could provide more than £2 billion of support for up to 2 million businesses, and will be crucial to ensure that our economy keeps running.
The measure on statutory sick pay is in addition to others to support businesses that were outlined by the Chancellor yesterday: £330 billion of Government-backed and guaranteed loans; additional cash grants of up to £25,000 for businesses in the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors with a rateable value of less than £51,000; and cash grants of £10,000 to 700,000 of our smaller businesses. The Government will do whatever it takes to support our economy.
Of course, not everyone is eligible for statutory sick pay, which is paid by employers. Gig workers and those on zero-hours contracts may be entitled to sick pay, and should check with their employer, but millions of hard-working people who are self-employed or in the gig economy will need our help, too. That is why we are making it easier to access benefits during this period.
The shadow Secretary of State talked about disability benefits and the announcement that we made earlier this week. The first decision was to remove face-to-face assessments, because we recognise that a significant proportion of those who could be claiming disability benefits are vulnerable. We want to avoid them needing to travel unnecessarily and to sit in busy waiting rooms, so we decided to stop face-to-face assessments. However, we do not want to stop new people gaining access to the support that they are entitled to, so we are seeking to continue to do paper-based and telephone reviews, but prioritising those who are new claimants, and looking at the workforce on a daily basis.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
I very much agree with the policy that the Minister is setting out. Will he clarify the intention for reassessments? He will know that Mind and one or two others have suggested that reassessments ought not to go ahead at the moment, partly because it is very difficult for people to get medical evidence in support of their reassessment claim at a time when doctors are very busy with something else.
Justin Tomlinson
I absolutely understand that point, and the right hon. Member and I discussed it when we first made the announcement. The absolute priority has to be new claimants who are seeking to get support through the disability benefit system, so we are looking on a daily basis at what we can do. I do not envisage that we will be able to do much beyond that, but I want to make sure that new claimants can get support. That was why, at the beginning of my speech, I paid tribute to the fantastic work of those who are working on the frontline, who—like all people—are anxious about events, but are still, when they can, coming in to make sure that the vulnerable people in society can access the support that they are entitled to.
Chi Onwurah
I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. He talks about statutory sick pay as part of the safety net. As such, he recognises that, as a safety net, it is a benefit of last resort, and he talks about the way in which companies can offer more. Does he therefore recognise that in this unprecedented situation, when so many people are likely to find themselves—either by choosing to self-isolate or being obliged to—in the position of claiming statutory sick pay, the level is not appropriate to drive the right behaviours or support people? It is no longer a question of last resort, but of supporting significant proportions of our population, so sick pay needs to be at a higher level.
Justin Tomlinson
I am not the Secretary of State—it is very kind of the hon. Member to elevate me to such a lofty position, but that does not apply. The broader point is that the Chancellor has made it very clear that we will continue, on a daily basis, to look at what additional support there can be. The Government will do what we need to do to protect the vulnerable in society and keep our economy going. Many Members will raise very important points in the debate but, as a broad principle, the safety net is wider welfare support, looking at an individual’s personal circumstances, and tailoring the level of support to them so that we can target help to the most vulnerable in society.
Those not eligible for sick pay, including the self-employed, are able to make a claim for universal credit or contributory employment and support allowance. Last week, we laid regulations to ensure that the contributory ESA is now payable from day one, removing the seven-day waiting period for people who are self-isolating on Government guidance or who are ill with coronavirus. Claims can also be made over the phone without the need for people to contact their doctor for a fit note. Those in self-isolation or sick with coronavirus who make a claim for universal credit can receive up to a month’s advance up front without physically attending a jobcentre. Everything can be done by phone or online, and that is a welcome position.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
What metrics has the Minister adopted to ensure that phone calls are dealt with in a timely manner? There are always complaints about people having to ring and ring, but not getting an answer.
Justin Tomlinson
We anticipate unprecedented demand, which is part of the reason why we have looked at the work that we no longer need to do during this period—for example, there was the announcement on ending face-to-face assessments for disability benefits—so that we can move health professionals on to the telephone systems to make sure that we can cope with demand and remove the need for people to unnecessarily visit jobcentres. We are keeping a very close eye on that on a day-to-day basis.
We are also removing the minimum income floor for self-employed universal credit claimants who have to self-isolate or who become ill as a result of coronavirus during this period. We are taking those measures to ensure that people are supported throughout this difficult period. We have increased access to sick pay, made it easier to access benefits and provided support for businesses to protect people’s jobs. This is a comprehensive package of support for some of the most vulnerable in society, but we are continuing to look at it by the day. The Chancellor has made it clear that there will be further announcements.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Two of my constituents who were both self-employed have had all their contracts brought to an end. They have a mortgage and two young children. Not surprisingly, as in many cases that hon. Members have raised, they are worried for the future. What support should I tell them the Government will make available to help their specific situation?
Justin Tomlinson
We are all hearing similar queries as constituency MPs. The key is for people to keep looking at gov.uk as announcements are made each day so that they have clarity about what they can and cannot get. The hon. Member talked about his constituents having a mortgage; obviously, we have already made the announcement about support for a mortgage holiday to protect people.
Part of the next step of our plan is to focus on providing support for people’s income and jobs. There will be further announcements, which will be shaped by all of us. As we flag up the issues being brought to our inboxes, that will help to shape the response. This is Parliament at its best, through partnership working. I hope that all hon. Members will give their full support to all the work that we and all our fantastic frontline staff are doing.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
I thank the Labour party for devoting some of its Opposition time to allow us all to discuss this serious, pertinent, timely and important issue, given the uncertainty facing many of our constituents across the UK.
With your forbearance, Madam Deputy Speaker, I stress at the outset for anybody watching that people should follow the advice of their local health authorities, such as NHS Scotland or Public Health England. Regular updates are coming from the Governments across the isles. I recommend that, as best as possible, employees and employers follow the available guidance.
I commend everyone leading the response to the situation, including NHS staff, other emergency services, local authorities, the voluntary sector and Governments across the isles, who have been working together as best as possible to ensure that the best advice, based on science, and the best support is available at the right time. I particularly praise Professor Jason Leitch, a former dux of Airdrie Academy in my constituency and the Scottish Government’s national clinical director. Alongside the Scottish Health Secretary Jeane Freeman and the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, he has been the model of calm, erudite leadership.
In the spirit of cross-party co-operation that we have seen emerge at Holyrood, I, too, have no desire to be political or criticise where working constructively can bring about better outcomes and engender greater confidence in the response of all Governments to the crisis. When I call for further action, therefore, it is not because I think the UK Government are deliberately holding back. I believe there is a genuine desire across all Governments to do the right thing at the right time.
The concerns that remain in large sections of society regarding the UK Government’s economic response to covid-19 essentially boil down to ensuring that incomes are protected when demand falls in huge sections of the economy. Renters, the self-employed, small business owners and people who are in or out of work just want to know that they will get the financial support they need to survive.
Constituents who are self-employed, such as taxi drivers, driving instructors, childcare providers and many more, have contacted me because they are worried about making sure that they do the right thing at the right time, while providing for their families and employees. My right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) and the shadow Health Secretary, the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth), have led calls for statutory sick pay arrangements to be improved to help workers who contract covid-19 or who have to self-isolate.
Although we welcome the UK Government’s move to make sick pay kick in from day one, and for the cost of sick pay to be met by them for companies with fewer than 250 staff for a period of 14 days, there is still more to do to support workers and businesses. Statutory sick pay is a reserved matter, as is employment law, so those areas are required to be decided upon here.
My right hon. Friend compared statutory sick pay rates in the UK with the rates of our European neighbours. As the House will be aware, that is not currently a favourable comparison for the UK Government. The UK rate is currently £94.25 a week—the second lowest rate when compared with EU nations. Ireland doubled its rate to £266 in response to covid-19, while Germany and Austria both pay £287 a week. At £94.25 a week, the UK Government are presiding over a system of poverty pay for those who are sick. One Tory MP was asked on Twitter whether she could live on £94.25 per week, and she simply responded “Get a life”.
This is really serious. We are asking people, even if they have mild symptoms, to self-isolate for the greater good, to contain and delay the spread of covid-19. We must be sympathetic with constituents who are asking legitimate questions about the advice and support they are getting. Statutory sick pay is an issue that should have been resolved before now, frankly. In response to this situation, the UK Government must act quickly.
At the Work and Pensions Committee hearing this morning, there was consensus among the witnesses that statutory sick pay should be raised. Citizens Advice is asking for it to go up to £180 per week. Scope is asking for it to be the equivalent of the national minimum wage. Others have said that the equivalent of the real living wage would be more appropriate, and Scandinavian countries are making it 100% of wages. The UK Government must act.
Alongside the rate of statutory sick pay, there are other specific areas where we want to see action from the UK Government.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
Just for clarification, is the hon. Gentleman asking for a permanent change in Government policy on statutory sick pay, or a temporary change for this period?
Neil Gray
We have to reflect on the fact that, even not at times of crisis, UK statutory sick pay rate is considerably lower than that of other European nations. A permanent change is required, but a temporary measure which might go beyond that permanent increase is required to deal with covid-19, so the answer is both, if that makes sense.
The Government must extend the policy further to ensure that sick pay is set at an hourly rate and available for everyone for 52 weeks instead of 28. Current rules on statutory sick pay are not flexible enough to meet real-life needs and fall far short of meeting a dignified standard of living, even with this new change. Disability groups have been especially vocal in calling for an overhaul of the sick pay system. Their concerns must be factored into the UK Government’s response to the sick pay consultation.
The UK Government should accept the TUC’s recommendations on sick pay for all. Those include abolishing the lower earnings limit, which would extend coverage to almost 2 million additional workers; permanently removing the waiting period for sick pay; increasing the weekly level of sick pay from £94 to the equivalent of a week’s pay at the real living wage; permanently agreeing that the legal requirement on fit notes after seven days of absence be extended to 14 days, with employers accepting self-certification for anything less than that; and permanently providing funds to ensure that employers can afford to pay sick pay.
The UK Government must do all they can to support businesses, to ensure that jobs are kept for the duration of this crisis. I would like to see the UK Government provide much greater grants, rather than loans, to help all businesses stay afloat, and attach conditions about ensuring that jobs are protected. We have seen that type of initiative in Denmark, and I hope the UK will follow.
Clearly, we all hope that these issues are temporary. The UK Government must do all they can to ensure that the attachment between employer and employee is not detached. That is important for workers, employers and the wider economy. Yesterday, Robert Chote, the chair of the Office for Budget Responsibility, urged the UK Government not to be “squeamish” about spending whatever it takes to prevent mass foreclosures, bankruptcies and millions of job losses as the UK effectively goes into lockdown. He said:
“When the fire is large enough you just spray the water and worry about it later.”
I turn to measures to support people who are self-employed and other business owners. The UK Government must do more. I echo the calls from my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) last night. We must protect the incomes of people who are self-employed and do so quickly, to give them confidence. She was also right to raise issues around maternity leave, parental leave and support for people with no recourse to public funds; they are extremely vulnerable at the best of times, but right now they must be supported. The UK Government must give information to the devolved Governments as quickly as possible, and encourage much greater information sharing to allow all Governments to act swiftly and appropriately. At Prime Minister’s questions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber raised the prospect of some form of minimum income guarantee, such as a universal basic income. The Prime Minister appeared to accept the general premise, but time is now of the essence. Can the Minister give an idea of when he expects some form of announcement on people receiving financial support?
The UK Government should consider whether they will extend the normal deadlines for people to provide the necessary information to support social security applications, while paying people much more quickly as the demand is likely to be much greater. There is clearly a need to go further on social security. Ministers have heard me discuss the various issues that there are routinely with universal credit. The changes I want to universal credit, although they would undoubtedly help in this crisis, may not be practically achievable in a useful timescale—I am talking about scrapping the five-week wait, the two-child cap and increasing work allowances.
Instead, for the duration of this crisis, the UK Government need to ensure that those who are in or out of employment, those who are employed or self-employed, are paid an amount that allows them to get through. Universal credit advances, for instance, should now come in the form of a grant, not a loan. The Government should also look at urgently suspending the tax credit income disregard for reductions in earnings, at least for the 2020-21 financial year, to ensure that, where earnings fall, household tax credits entitlement takes account of that loss.
We now know that schools in Scotland and Wales are to close at the end of this week. That puts huge pressure on families who rely on free school meals, so I urge the UK Government to look at this area, as pressures are going to be on those families for the duration of the school closures.
Kirsten Oswald
One of the issues that constituents have contacted me about a number of times over recent days is the finance of households that rely upon prepaid meters for their energy. These households are likely to already be financially more vulnerable. It is very likely that they have to travel some distance to get the meter top-ups that they require. As part of their thinking, could the UK Government give serious thought to compelling the energy companies not to cut people off and to take account of the fact that there will be higher needs for energy and less money to go round while this is happening?
Neil Gray
I absolutely agree. Many calls are being made across the country today for direct payments to be made from the Government to utility companies to ensure that people in these circumstances do not miss out, but it goes back to my original premise: incomes for people, regardless of their circumstances during this period, are going to be hit, so the Government need to provide some form of minimum income guarantee to ensure that people in all circumstances are able to get through, whether that is via statutory sick pay or the social security system. If they are in work, the Government must ensure that, if people lose hours, those could be picked up again, so they continue to pay their bills and continue to live a sustainable life.
The monthly allowance for universal credit should also be increased dramatically and all other social security payment levels should be swiftly reviewed as well. Clearly now, this is not business as usual. We cannot continue to pay social security rates which impoverish in normal times, never mind now. We are going to have to accept that, to get through, the UK Government are going to need to inject a massive amount of money into the economy to make up for what is undoubtedly going to be a massive downturn across a wide range of sectors, the like of which I do not think we have ever seen before—a downturn that will result from the actions that the UK Government and other Governments are rightly taking in asking people to self-isolate and take other actions to contain the virus. We cannot tell people to stay away from work if they have symptoms, to stay away from restaurants, bars and cinemas and to work from home, and not expect an economic impact, an employment impact and an income impact. The UK Government must fill that hole to ensure that they fulfil the promises of the Prime Minister that nobody will be penalised and everyone will be protected for doing the right thing.
I wish to conclude with an encouragement to everybody who may be following this debate. Please be community-minded. We have already seen some fantastic ideas and responses to the crisis in all our communities. Watch out for your neighbours. Help if you can. Buy only what you need. If they have the means to buy more, add what you can to the food bank trolley and know that others certainly do not have the ability to stockpile. Many of my constituents are already worried about how they will access essentials because they are self-isolating, have lost their job or have other vulnerabilities. Now, like never before in so many of our lifetimes, we need the community-mindedness that got previous generations through such emergency situations.
We also need to start talking about how those of us who are fit and well—and who have contracted and come through the other side of covid-19—can help key sectors of the economy and emergency services to cope with what is to come. I suspect that, in time, with self-isolation and illness, we will need to mobilise that volunteer army. But that can only happen if we ensure that everyone has their income protected. Support for business is important, but at the end of the day it will be income protection, in whatever form that takes—a cash grant or a temporary universal basic income—that will finally give everyone the comfort to do the right thing by society. That will give the answers to the questions that we are all getting from businesses, the self-employed, renters and others.
I hope that, within hours, rather than days, the UK Government will do the right thing and guarantee incomes, as we have seen in other nations. We are willing to discuss any potential measures that the UK Government are thinking of in order to ensure that this is done properly and quickly.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
The hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) mentioned in passing that the Work and Pensions Committee met this morning. We took evidence from five organisations: the Royal National Institute of Blind People, Mind, Scope, Citizens Advice and the Zacchaeus 2000 Trust representing the Disability Benefits Consortium. The main purpose was to take evidence about disability benefit assessments, but of course we took the opportunity to raise some of the current issues that we are discussing in this debate. I thank the members and staff of the Committee, and the witnesses from all those organisations, for being willing to take part in that useful session this morning, despite the current difficult circumstances.
I welcome the announcements that the Government have made. As the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), has recognised, there is going to be a good deal more to do to protect individuals through this very difficult time; that is underlined by the examples from other countries that we have heard today. I very much hope, with others, that those additional announcements will happen very soon because we need them very fast.
I want to raise a couple of issues about universal credit. I put the point to the Chancellor yesterday that somebody who is self-employed and who self-isolates very often will have to forgo their income as a result. The advice is to apply for benefits, but if people apply for universal credit, they do not get any help for the first five weeks other than a loan that has to be repaid. It seems to me that people in that position are not going to be willing to give up their income if all they are going to get is a loan.
In answering my question, the Chancellor correctly said that people can apply for the new contributory employment and support allowance. I welcome the fact that that is now available not only to people who are sick, but to people who are having to self-isolate because others in their household are sick. However, as the Minister will recognise, there are going to be quite a lot of people in that position who do not meet the contribution criteria for ESA because they have not paid 26 weeks’ worth of contributions, having earned above the lower earnings limit, within the last two years. The only opportunity those people will have is to apply for universal credit. However, if they only get a loan, many will feel that they have no alternative but to carry on working—even though they know that they really ought to self-isolate.
The attraction of the proposal made by the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts—and which has been made by Citizens Advice and others—is that these advances should be made as non-repayable grants for the duration of this crisis. That is something that the Department could readily do. I recognise that expecting the Department very quickly to make big changes to its IT systems for supporting universal credit may not be practical, but it could quickly make the advances non-repayable.
I am pleased to see both the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work and the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Colchester (Will Quince), on the Front Bench. They are very familiar with the Select Committee’s concerns about the five-week delay in universal credit anyway. There is growing evidence—including a striking article published in The Lancet this month—that people are being pushed into clinical depression due to being on universal credit rather than on legacy benefits. The Trussell Trust has found that many more people on universal credit need to go to a food bank compared with those on the predecessor benefits. Looking at what it is about universal credit that is causing those problems, the only big structural issue is the five-week delay. As the Ministers know, the Work and Pensions Committee will shortly begin an inquiry on that particular topic. That is a broader issue but, for the duration of the crisis, there is a powerful case for making the advances non-repayable.
I appreciate that this will not be the case everywhere, but it is the case in constituencies like mine. There are many working families who have leave to remain in the UK but do not yet have indefinite leave to remain. They are on what is called the 10-year pathway to securing indefinite leave, which means that every two and a half years they have to apply again for leave to remain. If they are working, they obtain leave to remain, but—I do not know whether this is universal, but it is certainly the case for a lot of my constituents—the card they receive making it clear they have leave to remain and are permitted to work in the UK also says they have no recourse to public funds. They are not allowed to claim any benefits at all, which in the current circumstance puts them in an extraordinarily difficult position. They are not allowed to claim ESA or universal credit at all. If they are in a position where they should self-isolate in accordance with the Government’s guidance, they will find that they suddenly have no income at all if they self-isolate.
There is a related issue with the habitual residence test, which is often applied, perfectly properly, to make sure people are habitually resident in the UK and are therefore entitled to benefits. I wonder whether there is a case for suspending the test, at least in some circumstances, because we want those who are working to be able to self-isolate when it is important that they do so. If they do not have access to public funds for one of those two reasons, they will find it practically impossible to self-isolate. I hope the Ministers and their Home Office colleagues will look at that.
Citizens Advice has argued that there should be a temporary repayment pause for claimants, which is a strong point in the current crisis. People currently have to repay their universal credit advances, or perhaps their past tax credit overpayments, through their universal credit, so there is a case for suspending those repayments.
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work said in his opening speech that “Everybody will be supported to do the right thing.” He is right to underline the importance of that but, as things stand, those who do not have recourse to public funds, because they do not meet the requirements of the habitual residence test, will not be supported to do the right thing, and it is very important that they should be.
In his Budget statement, the Chancellor said he is
“temporarily removing the minimum income floor in universal credit.”—[Official Report, 11 March 2020; Vol. 673, c. 280.]
When we came to read the Budget documents, we found that the position, as the Minister set out a few minutes ago, is that the removal applies only to those directly affected by covid-19 or by self-isolation according to Government advice. I think the Government should stick with what the Chancellor of the Exchequer actually said, which is that the minimum income floor will be suspended altogether, because a lot of self-employed people—my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) gave us such an example—will see a big fall in their income because of what is happening in the wider economy, not because they are directly affected, as yet, by covid-19. Universal credit provides an opportunity to increase support where their income from self-employment falls. That could work very well, I think, if the minimum income floor was suspended altogether, as the Chancellor of Exchequer appeared to indicate would be the case in his Budget speech last week. I do hope that that will be looked at again, that the caveats that have been added to that commitment since might be taken away, and that the minimum income floor will be suspended altogether for self-employed people for the duration of this crisis.
I echo the point that was made a few moments ago by the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) about the tax credit disregard. As things stand at the moment, if someone’s income falls by less than £2,500, their tax credits do not increase at all. There is, in the tax credit system, a mechanism that can be used to provide people with help when their income falls, but to get the full benefit of that we would need to remove that £2,500 disregard. I appreciate that that is a matter for the Treasury, rather than for the Department for Work and Pensions, but I hope that it will be done.
Statutory sick pay is a big focus for this debate. The Government consulted last summer on extending statutory sick pay to those who are lower paid—to those who are earning below the current threshold—but the Government have not yet responded to that consultation, which was carried out several months ago. Surely now is the time to act. It was proposed then that statutory sick pay should be paid to people earning less than the lower earnings limit at 80% of their wage. That, I think, was the proposal on which the Government consulted. This is surely the time to fast-track that proposal—to bring it forward and put it in place. I appreciate that it will need legislation to do that, but it is very important that it is done, and I hope that it can be picked up in the legislation that will be published tomorrow.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
On this point about statutory sick pay, there are two additional points on which the Government really do need to act. One is that this should be done in advance, up front, rather than making businesses reclaim, which is putting massive pressure on them. The other is that it is vital for the self- employed. Businesses in my Aberavon constituency are really under the cosh and they need both of these measures to be included in the rethink on statutory sick pay.
Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend makes a couple of very important points. I very much agree with him on the first, but on the second, my understanding is that self-employed people in this position can apply for this new employment and support allowance if they meet the contribution conditions, which, of course, some will not. That is where universal credit needs to be changed. One of those routes is likely to be a solution for them, rather than statutory sick pay, because that depends on there being an employer in place.
My final point is about the argument that has been made by many, and I am sure that will be made again in this debate, that the overall level of benefits should be higher, at least for the duration of this crisis, than it has been up until now. I just want to make one argument in favour of that proposition. We always say, and we have said it on both sides of this House, that work is the best route out of poverty, and the system is designed to encourage people to seek and find work but, at the moment, there are lots of people—and it will be a growing number over the coming weeks—whom we do not want to work. We do not want to force people into jobs. For many, the position will continue to be the same in the next few weeks as it has been in the past, but there is this large and very important group whom we really do not want to be working, and we want them to be at home. That, in particular, makes the case for Ministers who are looking temporarily at raising the levels of benefits—statutory sick pay and universal credit and the others.
I welcome what the Minister said about the suspension of face-to-face assessments
for disability benefits. I think he suggested that, in practice, his Department will not conduct reassessments for disability benefits either. If that is the practical reality, it would be helpful if he stated that explicitly. I think that would be reassuring to a lot of people who are in receipt of disability benefits at the moment and expect to have to be reassessed in the next few months. That is always quite an anxious time for people in that position. If the reality is that they will not be reassessed for several months because everybody is busy with everything else, it would be helpful for that to be made explicit so that reassurance can be provided.
Of course, if it turns out that there are ways of doing the new assessments that do not require face-to-face meetings, and if that works well for new applications, hopefully lessons can be learned for the system in the longer term. However, if it was possible to make it clear that there will not be any disability benefit reassessments in the next few months, I think that would be widely welcomed.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. It may be helpful for Members to know that Mr Speaker has received a message that we are expecting a statement at 5 pm, to be delivered by the Secretary of State for Education.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)
It is an honour to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who made a powerful speech, particularly about refugees and asylum seekers. Their plight, and the specific issues they face, have not been discussed nearly enough in the past few days and weeks.
At times of national and, as in this case, global crisis, only Governments have the resources to protect our society and our health, to protect the most vulnerable, to protect businesses and production, and to protect workers. Markets cannot do that; only the Government can. That is why the Government must step up to ensure that we protect all our citizens, to direct our national economy, to help and support the people who most need it, and to ensure that resources get to where they are most needed.
I will talk primarily about issues with statutory sick pay, but let me first say something about the reports in the newspapers today that some Harley Street clinics are offering coronavirus tests for £395. That means someone can get the test if they have the money, but someone who works in a GP surgery cannot get it. That is utterly unacceptable. The role of the Government is to intervene to ensure that resources go where they are most needed—not to the rich and powerful, but to the people delivering our frontline services, who need protection. I urge Ministers to do that.
The measures taken by the Chancellor yesterday were necessary and worth while to protect our economic infrastructure and to support the most severely hit sectors of our economy. They were also necessary to support businesses, which are not responsible for the collapse in demand they are experiencing. The same is true of workers—they are not responsible for the predicament they find themselves in—yet support for them was missing from the Chancellor’s statement yesterday. The Minister has said today—the Prime Minister has said it too—that everybody will be supported to do the right thing. We all want that, but I am afraid at the moment that is not the case. People are not being supported to do the right thing. For many people, the right thing is not to go to work—not to spread this virus, but to stay at home.
If we really want people to do the right thing, we need to support them to make that decision, so let me turn to statutory sick pay. This point has been well rehearsed in debate both today and yesterday, but it obviously needs to be made time and again, because so far the necessary measures have not been taken. Statutory sick pay is not enough for people to be able to support themselves and their family. The level of statutory sick pay is insufficient.
The ineligibility is also a huge problem. If people are self-employed or earn below the lower earnings limit, they are not able to get statutory sick pay. Some of the people who most need it are denied the support that the Government say is necessary. Other people may not be sick, but also need support. If they are self-isolating, they might not have symptoms or be sick, but the right thing to do is to stay at home. If we want people to stay at home, they need support.
Similarly, we will have a statement from the Secretary of State for Education later and if, as now seems inevitable, many parents will have to take time off work to look after their children, they will need support to do the right thing, although they will not be sick. Of course, many people also face redundancy because their businesses cannot employ them anymore. Or if they are self-employed, the work is just not coming in. At the moment, those people are not able to claim statutory sick pay, and they will have to wait in the queue for universal credit or ESA if they have the contributions. That is not supporting people to do the right thing.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
Does the hon. Lady agree that as workers have had their shifts cancelled, or have been told that their hours will be reduced—many of them are on zero-hour contracts—they, too, need the support that she is rightly saying should be given to workers?
Rachel Reeves
The hon. Gentleman is right. For many people, if they have a temporary reduction in their work, they can draw on their savings, but many of the people I represent—and many of his constituents as well—do not have savings to draw on. The Resolution Foundation published evidence last week before the Budget—to try to influence the Budget—that showed that 60% of people on low and middle incomes have less than £100 of savings. They do not have the resources to draw on even temporarily for a short time to pay the rent or the mortgage, or to put food on the table.
We must offer more support. That is what other countries are doing. In Norway, full pay is given to those laid off for 20 days. The self-employed get 80% of their average income over the last three years. In Sweden, laid-off workers are guaranteed 90% of their income: the Government will pick up half of that and employers are expected to pick up the other half. In Denmark, the Danish state will pay 75% of the salaries of laid-off workers. That is the same in many other countries. If it is good enough in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and other countries in the European Union and elsewhere, it is frankly good enough for workers in this country too.
It is now urgent that the Government come to the House and tell us that support is not just available for business—although that is very welcome—but is available to workers as well. Unless that happens, people will not be able to self-isolate and stop the virus spreading. The health crisis will become an economic crisis and many people will pay the price for the virus. It does not need to be that way. Let us look at income replacement, and quickly, to ensure that help is available.
As important as helping people now is, if we put in place income replacement so that people are not laid off or made redundant, it will also support the economic recovery. The pandemic will pass—we must believe that and we know it is the case—but when it does, and people want to go out again and to start spending in shops, restaurants, bars, theatres and cafes and to travel on aeroplanes, we need to ensure that the economic fabric of our country is still intact. The best way to do that is to ensure that workers remain attached to the firms that have been employing then. Income replacement can help people now, but it can also ensure that our economy gets back on a sound footing when the crisis has passed. To build the economy we need to see after this, I urge the Government to introduce urgently a system of income replacement.
The issue of renters has also been mentioned by Front Benchers and others. There was support yesterday for people with mortgages, and that is very welcome, but many people, especially those in precarious work or on low pay, do not have mortgages—they rent privately or in the social sector. In my constituency, fewer than a third of homes are owner-occupied; the others are either in the private rented sector or the social rented sector, and we need to do much more to support those people as well, because if they are on statutory sick pay now, or have seen a fall in their incomes or are expecting to be made redundant, frankly they are not going to be able to pay their rent in the days and weeks ahead. It was welcome that the Prime Minister said there will be support for renters, but we need to see the detail of that, and we need to see that support coming directly to landlords and renters to ensure that nobody is penalised because they do not have the money to pay their rents right now. That requires support for local authorities, who are big letting agents, and big providers of social housing; the support needs to go to the housing associations too and also large landlords, and we should be working with local government to ensure that we are reaching and talking to the biggest letting agencies and estate agents to make sure that support is getting to the people on the ground.
Again, I cannot stress enough how important this is; this action is needed urgently. The representative of the hospitality sector said last night that we are staring at hundreds of thousands of redundancies in that sector alone, so income replacement and support for people in the rented sector is crucially important.
The support for mortgages is a three-month holiday, and I say again that I am not sure that that is the right approach in the private rented sector, because a three-month holiday on a person’s mortgage which can then be added to their mortgage debt is one thing, but if in three or four months’ time someone has four months’ worth of rent to pay, that is not going to be much good if they have found their incomes have not recovered by then. We therefore need to be sensitive about ensuring that the support is there for the period of time that it is needed for.
Finally, I want to say something about gas and electricity and broadband and television licences. These are all essential services for people, and they will be more essential in the weeks and days and months ahead as more people are having to stay at home. Broadband is now absolutely an essential service, because the only way that many people can get food delivered is by ordering online. Again I urge Ministers to say to the providers of those essential services that nobody should be cut off from those essential services as long as the pandemic lasts, because otherwise people will find themselves without the basic infrastructure to be able to stay in their homes.
This global pandemic has thrown into sharp relief some of the problems in our labour market and in our social security system, so when this is all over we cannot go back to business as usual. If people cannot survive on £94.25 statutory sick pay when there is a global pandemic, they cannot survive on £94.25 at any other time, so we need to look at the waiting time for universal credit and the level of statutory sick pay, and who is eligible for it, and also, frankly, how our labour market works. We have 1 million people on zero-hour contracts and we have almost 5 million people who are self-employed—some choose to be, but many have no choice—so we need to look at how our economy works and who it works for, because whether we are in the midst of a global pandemic or not, there are too many people in our country that our economy, our labour market and, frankly, our society do not work for.
Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), the Chair of the Select Committee, and I want to build on some of the points they made both about the practical challenges people face in the midst of this pandemic and about some of the fundamental questions posed to each of us as members of a society that has left far too many people far too dangerously exposed, not just in the face of this pandemic but in everyday life—a plight that has gone unanswered for far too long.
I want to begin by paying tribute particularly to the workers in the NHS who are putting themselves in harm’s way as they treat people in the midst of this pandemic, and I absolutely echo what my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West said: it is crucial that NHS workers have access to the right kit to do the job and that, where there is any concern about the diagnosis of those NHS workers or their family members, they are considered priority cases for testing. Frankly, the Government’s claim to be among the best in the world at testing tells us only that the rest of the world has much more to do, because we are hearing of far too many cases where people who need to be tested are not receiving that test.
The crisis we face is not just a public health crisis; it threatens to be an economic one. The supply and demand-side shocks it will pose will be both simultaneous and severe, so it requires co-ordinated action on the part of Government and industry on a scale that we have not seen since the second world war. A wartime mobilisation is going to be required for this peacetime crisis. Many families, as they gather around the kitchen table this afternoon and this evening to consider what a loss of earnings or perhaps a loss of employment would mean for them and their families, are staring at the hard reality of a social insecurity system that has left far too many people grappling with poverty and insecurity, and ongoing crises as a result, for far too long. No one can or should be expected to live on SSP of £94.25 a week. No one should be expected to live on universal credit, which in some cases can be even less generous—if that is the right word—than SSP. So I echo the calls this afternoon for increases to SSP and UC to ensure that our social security system provides just that—social security, not just in the worst of times, but in the best of times for our country.
Ministers should ask, but so should people in our communities, how the political choices of successive Governments and the political demands of sections of the electorate ever allowed a position in which we allow people who have fallen on hard times to fall into harder times still because of the social insecurity system, which pushes people further into poverty, mental ill health and family crises, which make it harder, not easier, to escape from this. I suspect I am one of a minority of people in this House who know what it is like to grow up in a household that is reliant on the social security system; what it is like when there are more days left to the end of the month than there is money; what it is like when people have to beg, borrow and steal to put food in the fridge; what it is like when the electricity meter has run out and so has the emergency; and what it is like to feel a victim of the state, rather than supported by the state. We should resolve, in the midst of this crisis, that once it is over, never again are we going to allow our social security system to fail people in the way that it did before this crisis and that it threatens to do within this crisis.
Yesterday, the Chancellor set out a series of measures to help businesses and to try to get the economy through this. I welcome those measures, but we have to learn from past mistakes. It is not enough to bail out businesses, although that is important; we also have to bail out people. As we build the economic recovery, we have to ensure that the quantitative easing that helps provide liquidity to our economy to help things keep going as best they can in difficult times is also a quantitative easing for the people. By all means, let us call for an increase in SSP, UC and disability benefits, to make sure that people can live with dignity and have a good quality of life if they are unable to work. All those things are important, but instead of quibbling about piecemeal measures, with a bit of mortgage relief here and a bit of rental support there, why do we not just provide every household in this country with the security to know that the Government will provide protection for people’s incomes, so that they can continue to make sensible choices for their families, so that they know that when the end of the month comes and the mortgage or the rent is due they can pay it, and so that they know that when the bills are due and when they have to do their shop, they will be able to pay for this?
I have always been a sceptic about the principle of universal basic income, because I fundamentally believe in an economy and a social security system that redistributes wealth from those who have it to those who need it most. I am also cynical about it because although there are many principled and decent-minded champions of universal basic income on the left of politics, the left should regard the principle with suspicion when some of its leading champions have been right-wing economists, such as the father of free market economics, Adam Smith. There is a right-wing vision of universal basic income that is about dismantling the state and that says, “If we provide everyone with the income, we don’t need to provide the services centrally because people can pay for them.” That is one reason, I suspect, why the Trump Administration have not needed much persuasion to provide a form of basic income.
But although we should regard the principle with suspicion as an ongoing solution to how we provide social security for people, there is now a strong case for a form of basic income to see us through this crisis. It could be a universal payment made available to everyone, where the tax system is used to recoup the money from those who genuinely do not need it. It could be a form of basic income, where those who need it simply apply for it and then receive it. It could be a form of income protection, as my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West described, which is already working well in Scandinavia. But one way or another, we have to make sure that families have incomes to see themselves through this crisis, because as we have already heard, the majority of people in this country tonight are one lost payday away from being in a real crisis, and the crisis for them will be a crisis for all of us if demand is further sucked out of the economy. I hope that Ministers will take that message back to the Treasury.
Finally, it is not just the social insecurity system that has left people exposed in this crisis. We have to make sure that this is a turning point. It could be that our political choices further entrench inequality in our society—just as, frankly, the coalition and Conservative Governments did after the last financial crisis, when too many of the political decisions and so-called tough choices meant balancing the books on the backs of the poorest.
Neil Gray
The hon. Gentleman is making a very good speech, and I agree with much, if not all, of what he has said. He is coming to the very important point about what happens after all this. There has been a massive fiscal stimulus over the last week, and we expect more to come. What none of us would expect is austerity mark 2 to see us out the other side.
Wes Streeting
I wholeheartedly agree.
Let me conclude on this point. In the aftermath of the last financial crisis, the Labour Government—and, in fact, the reputation of the Labour party—were utterly trashed because Gordon Brown’s Government took the courageous steps that were needed to prevent a financial crisis in America, which became a global financial crisis, from becoming a depression, which would have meant people being unable to take money out of the banks. The Government were right then not to be squeamish about borrowing to make sure that our country got through it, and this Government should not be squeamish now.
I suspect that by the end of this the Government will own such a large stake of the British economy that it will make Labour’s last manifesto look positively conservative in its ambitions by comparison. If that is what it takes to see us through this crisis, that is what the Government will have to do that. We are going to need a wartime response to get us through this crisis, so let us think now about the peace that will follow. Just as our generation looks back with pride at the decisions that the 1945 Attlee Government took and the legacy that they left, let us think now about the legacy that we will leave for our country. Let us make the choices now that lessen inequality in our country and provide genuine social security in the best of times, not just the worst of times.
Let us ask how it was that political choices left our social care system at breaking point and the people languishing in it more exposed to this pandemic than they would otherwise have been. Let us repair our broken social care system by making brave political choices. Let us care more about how we fund the living to lead a good life than about how we tax the dead. Let us make sure that, when people get to old age, they are not just looking back on a life well lived, but able to live life to the full until the end. Let us make sure that, when people get to old age, they are not just looking back on a life well lived, but able to live life to the full until the end.
Let us see this as a wake-up call. If a pandemic can seriously disrupt the labour market, and we have to provide serious income protection to see it through, let us think about what a technological revolution will do as it displaces, relocates and significantly changes the shape of the labour market. Let us make sure that we have the social protections needed now to face the next revolution, not just the current crisis. Let us not let the global pandemic distract us from the urgency of the climate emergency. Let us make sure that our recovery is a green recovery.
Finally, let us no longer listen to the siren calls of the populists and the nativists who believe that countries can go it alone, and that we have to build a world where we are all in it for ourselves. Let us recognise that global problems require global solutions and global leadership through global institutions. As the Attlee Government rebuilt the fabric of the country through a new welfare state and built international institutions, let us to resolve to do the same.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
We have heard some powerful speeches from hon. Members of three parties. I commend my right hon. and hon. Friends for what they have said.
It is a challenge to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), because he spoke so powerfully. He started with his experience of growing up in the grip of the completely inadequate welfare system that we had then. The point he made that touched me was how dangerous it will be if we do not respond to the crisis by putting in place the necessary economic measures right now, because we run the risk of subjecting millions of our fellow citizens to long-term hardship. That is why the situation is so urgent and requires so much action from the Government. As my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) said, only the Government can take that action.
We in this country face a situation where the number of fatalities had doubled in two days to 69 when I looked yesterday. If that is the growth rate of the number of fatalities, we will be where Italy is today by next Friday. That is the reality of what is happening, if those figures are right. That brings home to me, and I am sure to everybody, the need for the fastest possible action on health and on the economy.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North mentioned the need to support health workers. That applies across the public sector. The No. 1 priority is to get them protection so that they can do their jobs and to make sure that the testing regime is there as quickly as possible. It will not wait any longer.
That priority is very closely followed by the economic response that is needed. If we are to reassure people across the country to take the actions recommended by the Government, and rightly spelled out by the Minister, we must also give them the financial assurance that they can do so. That has to happen straightaway. The SNP spokesman was right in saying that it should happen in the next few hours. Yesterday’s measures were only a start. I accept that the Chancellor rightly acknowledged that they were only part of a number of steps. As a result of this debate, Ministers are hearing further reinforcement of why it is important to get action for individuals today—not next week.
I will give some case studies. The bus driver in London who believes that he has coronavirus symptoms is still going to work, because sick pay would not be enough money to put food on the table, let alone cover the £1,200 in rent that he pays every month. He cannot afford not to work. The reflexologist who works in a care home now cannot go to work because she is a visitor. The dog kennel owner is not going to get any dogs to look after. Their income is gone. The tutor has lost all of her income.
My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West talked about renters. They are often also the most at risk from income loss, because of the nature of the work they are involved in. The Government need to support landlords as well as tenants in the private rented sector, as well as supporting social housing landlords at the same time. We have heard reports about rough sleepers being on the tube in London and on public transport elsewhere. They are clearly in great distress. The support for people outside the system is essential straight away. At this stage, as far as I can see, it is not in place.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that for lots of the people he is talking about—the Chancellor repeatedly talked yesterday about those who are self-employed, for example, being able to claim universal credit instead of SSP in this circumstance—this simply is not good enough? Today I have had lots of reports of people trying to do that in my constituency, and they are being told by the Department for Work and Pensions that they have to go to a face-to-face meeting and go through a series of protocols in order to do that. Let alone the dangers of a face-to-face meeting, it is simply not the case that these people can get any access to universal credit at the moment.
Bill Esterson
I thank my hon. Friend for what she says. It reinforces the point, and she made the same point in the question she asked the Chancellor yesterday evening. I just hope that Ministers are taking on board how quickly things need to change. One of my constituents made the point that he does not qualify for statutory sick pay, as he is self-employed. That is a real problem for the 5 million people who are self-employed and have lost all their work. Whether it is universal credit or ESA, it simply is not anywhere near enough money. He is staying at home, observing advice from Government and not able to earn his weekly wage. Whatever is in the package from the Government, which the Minister has already referred to, it is nowhere near enough for what they need.
Another of my constituents, a nurse, asked me to raise the situation of principal carers who live with somebody in a vulnerable group. What is the advice for her? The example she gives is her son, who cares for his wife, who has a chronic respiratory disease. She is 26, but with that disease she is clearly in one of the highest risk groups. She cannot work and does not leave the house, but what is he supposed to do? He is still going to work, but with great anxiety, because he might catch the disease and pass it on to her. They have a mortgage and they need his income. Those are real-world examples. We have all heard them from our constituents and from others around the country, and they show why action has to be immediate.
I have mentioned the self-employed and freelancers, small firms and people on zero-hours contracts. The support just is not there. If someone is employed and they qualify, the £94.25 a week they get is not enough. Universal credit is not enough. The support announced yesterday for the hospitality and retail sectors for a few weeks is encouraging, but what is really needed is the kind of cash injection that a number of my hon. and right hon. Friends have already mentioned, and that was put to the Chancellor last night in the statement.
Loans are part of the answer, but there is a massive question mark with loans from a banking system that many businesses still do not trust because of how it behaved during the financial crisis. Loans have to be repaid. That was the point I made to the Chancellor in the question I asked last night. In reality, we have to avoid storing up problems further down the line with the actions that are taken now. These were very big numbers—eye-catching, headline-grabbing numbers, such as £330 billion—but the reality is that the £10,000 on offer to small firms will not last very long as a grant.
Then there is the question of information. The Minister mentioned the gov.uk website. Not many businesses—and I work with them across the country—are aware that that is where to go to get this information. The Government need to do a lot more to get the information out there quickly on a range of issues, using social media, television and radio.
The grant system for businesses announced yesterday appears only to be starting next week. Again, that is so much later than needed. Is there any way of bringing it forward? We have heard the examples from Scandinavia, with contributions towards salaries of 75% by the Government in Denmark, 90% in Sweden and 60% in Germany, or 67% for those with parental responsibilities. The Minister said that these things take time. Why is it that other countries have been able to put these measures in place so quickly, but we are not at that stage yet? What is holding us back if they were able to do it? It seems to me that if they can do it, so can we.
Are the Government looking at what the TUC has said about a real living wage and what Members have said about a universal basic income for a limited period? I tend to agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North on that period. We need to redefine what we mean by sick pay. It is not just whether someone is sick; it is whether they are in danger of becoming sick and infecting other people. It is about giving financial reassurance and making up for the lost jobs, the livelihoods that are at risk and the contracts that have gone in whatever sector of the economy, for as long as it takes.
Only the Government can intervene, and if we do not get this right, it will be so much worse for the health of us all and for the economy. The Government say that they will do whatever it takes—that is the three-word slogan of the moment. “Whatever it takes” means giving every single person in this country the financial security they need right now to ensure that they can protect themselves, their families and the rest of us.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
I am grateful to you for allowing me to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I apologise to the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) that I was not in the Chamber for the first part of her speech. I wanted to listen and make a contribution, and I appreciate the opportunity to do so.
I thank the Opposition for holding this debate, which covers two of the things that are on most people’s minds: reducing the likelihood that I, anyone in my family or anyone I work with will get sick, and providing protection for me if that does happen; and trying to protect my job over the next few weeks and as we recover. The debate has raised a number of issues. I am not going to pick out any particular ones, but I want to make some observations.
The first is what a difference a week has made. It is seven days since the Budget, and these are very different circumstances. We should give credit for all the efforts made in this House and for the measures that the Government have taken to respond as quickly as they can on such a wide range of issues. None of us in this room has the power of the Almighty, and we should understand that we work within human frailties. I will come back to the frailties of the systems that we work within.
Secondly, I would like to add to some of the examples given by the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) about the public’s response. This week, I have met churches that are working on good neighbourhood schemes. I spoke today with a playwright in the village of Arlesey who is setting up a group to bring skills together in the community, to assist people. We are seeing the best of people, but as some Members have said, we are also seeing the worst of people. In a free society, we can see the best, but we can frequently see the worst. Harley Street doctors are reselling tests at a high price that will not be available to everyone. That is a disgraceful thing for anyone with a professional qualification to do. We have seen pictures of hoarders in shops, meaning that elderly and vulnerable constituents of mine—and, I am sure, of all Members—are not able to access the foodstuffs and other products they need. We have seen the reaction of the bosses of some of the largest companies.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
On that point, I have been contacted by a constituent who has informed me that their employer is insisting that they cannot work from home because it is waiting for stronger guidance from the Government. Can the Government give clear guidance right now to my constituent’s employer and many others across the country that, if people can work from home, they must?
Richard Fuller
I appreciate the hon. Lady’s intervention. I am not speaking for the Government—I am sure the Minister will seek to address that—but I have to say that it sounds to me as though her constituent’s employer is just making an excuse, because the Government have been absolutely clear that it is the right thing to do socially for everyone in this country, if they have a concern, to be able to isolate themselves from others and to work from home. What more does that person need to understand what they should do? I hope they will get that message very clearly from the Front Bench.
On the point of leaders not doing the right thing, the experience of Virgin airlines has been raised. The owner or partial owner of Virgin airlines has suggested that employees should take eight weeks of unpaid leave, and I decided to look at how much that would cost. Eight weeks at the £94.25 rate of statutory sick pay would cost £754 per employee. There are 8,571 employees of Virgin airlines, so if all of them took eight weeks of unpaid leave, that would be a cost of £6.4 million. Sir Richard Branson’s net worth is $3.8 billion. If he is able to get 2% interest on that money for eight weeks, he will earn the equivalent of £9.9 million. So I say: Sir Richard Branson, give up the interest on your wealth for eight weeks, and pay your employees yourself their unpaid leave.
Big or small—a leader of a church in a small village or a leader of the large business—when it comes to looking at the protection of their workers, the time is now, and we will judge them all by their actions. It will be the same for the Government’s actions.
As I say, are we choosing the right policies? We have heard a lot about that today. I congratulate the Government on the staging of the announcements. There is so much pressure—all MPs are under pressure, with loads of questions: small or micro ones, and very large ones covering many issues—but I think the staging of announcements is a good approach, because we need this to bed in with people each day. If we put everything into an announcement on a single day, I would worry that, although we would feel we were communicating, we would find that it was not being received and understood as clearly as it should be.
Neil Gray
I commend the hon. Member’s speech thus far. To some extent I agree that, for preparedness in working through particular policies or interventions, there has to be some preparation and that does take time. However, in terms of people’s livelihoods, people are losing their jobs now and businesses are making decisions about their future viability now, so would he encourage the Government, as I have, to make an announcement about the financial impetus that could be given to protect individuals and jobs in hours, not days, so that this response can be adequate?
Richard Fuller
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Those yeses are for each of the businesses in my constituency that I have spoken to in the last 24 hours that have asked for precisely that. We often think: how can a business suddenly be short of money to pay its own workers within a short period of time? But the truth is that, in some sectors, cash flow is of a nature that those issues do come up. More importantly, I say to those on my Front Bench that every single responsible private sector business right now will be thinking, first and foremost, “How can I protect cash flow for the long-term survival of my business?” One of the nearest short-term costs that can be reduced is their employee cost, so there is the sense that this is needed, as the hon. Member rightly says, in hours rather than days. To be fair, I think the Chancellor was very aware of that in his statement yesterday.
To that end, may I encourage hon. Members on both sides—there are slightly more on the Opposition Benches than on the Government Benches for certain reasons—to think more about using what is already in place, such as the systems that connect what the Government can do to those institutions and people that need it, rather than trying to broaden it out into a big and different debate about whether we should have this or that. There is of course a time for debating universal income, and there is time for us to think about ways in which we might look at a better overall system in the future.
Right now, I say to my right hon and hon. Friends on the Front Bench that we should be looking at proposals using the existing arteries of the financial system, of the benefits system and of the pay-as-you-earn and tax system that can reach people, either to amplify payments that are already made or to reverse flows from into the Government to back out to those who need them, and I ask them not to get too distracted by items along the way.
We should also recognise that in this period there will be a test for the labour market structure in the United Kingdom. The UK does have some not quite unique but nuanced features, particularly its reliance on flexible working and on self-employment. The changes that Governments have put in over the past 15 years to create a flexible market—there are benefits to that—will also be tested during this pause in the economy. After we have gone through this crisis, I would encourage the Government to see what lessons can be learnt from that.
This is also a test in terms of the enlightenment we have in our social insurance system. I was moved by the contributions from the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), the Chair of the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee, and the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting). It is absolutely right that this is an opportunity for us to look at those things and to reflect. We may have different perspectives on it, and we will definitely have different politics, but only a fool would say that we should not look at this and learn lessons. This is no time for fools.
My core message for the Government is this: the staging of announcements is absolutely right, so that they can bed in with people; use the systems we have to get money into the hands of the people and businesses who need it; and follow the advice from both sides of the House, which is that we would welcome the Government’s moving with speed between the announcement and the time that the money is available in the bank manager’s office in Arlesey, Bolnhurst or anywhere else in the country, or in that person’s pay packet, their bank account, or their benefits slip.
Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)
I thank the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller), who has been uniquely brave in speaking from the Back Benches on his side of the House. I think that there was much that we on the Opposition Benches could agree with him about.
The scale of the coronavirus crisis means that we need to take action in many forms, and ensuring that people have economic security is second only to our response in safeguarding people’s health. The point will come at which we have mass isolation—I feel that that point is probably coming very soon—and that will happen whether people are symptomatic or not. This unprecedented challenge needs an unprecedented response, and we must work together to bring forward the right response, which safeguards people and brings future confidence, not just immediate wellbeing. A measure that will do just that is an emergency universal basic income, which will give everyone the basic financial support they need to provide the necessities of everyday life through this crisis.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), who has just left the Chamber, made some very good points. In normal circumstances, this might be a debate in which we would ask questions, explore different aspects of the situation and, particularly on the Opposition Benches, talk about the benefits of universal basic income versus universal basic services. I suggest to the Government that if we had universal basic services in areas such as childcare and social care, we would be in a much better place to weather this crisis than we are with just a single universal basic service, the national health service, taking the brunt of the crisis.
Putting that aside, and thinking about where we are and the phase of the coronavirus crisis that we are about to enter, we need to take this step. We just need to think about how our economy has changed fundamentally since 2008, with the number of self-employed people having risen over the past 15 years from 3.25 million people to more than 5 million people. They can only properly be protected through a universal basic income, as can those who will sadly lose their employment through redundancy, temporary lack of work or the failure and closure of businesses because of the crisis.
Let us think about the app-based driver, the zero-hours warehouse worker, the children’s entertainer and the agency-supplied care worker. None of them has an employer. The Government can incentivise by keeping them in work. A universal basic income would be more holistic and more effective than subsidising a company payroll, which currently seems to be the Government’s main tool in dealing with the crisis.
Finally, let me, just for a moment, look across the Atlantic to the United States of America. Normally, on this side of the House, we do not look to the United States of America, but just yesterday the US Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, said that cash infusions could happen swiftly:
“We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately.”
That sounds very much like a temporary universal basic income to me. Well before this crisis, Andrew Yang, the former Democratic contender for the presidency, said that a universal basic income of $1,000 a month should be introduced. He is now speaking directly to the White House. Donald Trump himself has said:
“I think we’re going to do something that gets money to them as quickly as possible.”
This is a measure that will get money straight to people and give them that basic economic security. Let me say to Ministers that if Yang and Trump can work together, surely so can Sunak and McDonnell.
Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to speak in this important debate. Let me start by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel) and many other speakers, including the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller), who spoke very eloquently, and my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting),, who made some thoughtful and far-sighted points.
I want to address not just the policy responses that we need, but the underlying scale of the problem. We have heard today that as many as 5.5 million people in this country are self-employed. I want to describe my experience of that as a constituency MP, but also to set it in the context of the wider crisis that we face.
We face an unprecedented situation, and I fully acknowledge the action that the Government have taken. Measures to reduce the spread of the outbreak are vital, and I am pleased that Ministers have announced robust measures this week, including the measures to support businesses that they announced yesterday. However, I want that action to go much further and to be much more resolute, because of the scale and need of people who work for themselves, and those who are on low incomes or in the gig economy.
I support the range of measures outlined earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood). Let me draw the Minister’s attention in particular to the approach taken in Scandinavia, and also by a number of other European Governments: we have heard mention of the Irish Government today. The UK Government now need rapidly to develop a comprehensive approach and provide a safety net for all workers, and, indeed, all renters, who are uniquely vulnerable in the current crisis. Let me explain what that means to local people in Reading and Woodley, the area that I represent. Self-employed people are the absolute bedrock of our local economy, carrying out a range of activities in the knowledge economy, public services and other forms of service, retail and distribution.
Let me begin by highlighting the role and the importance to our local economy of IT subcontractors. Some of the largest IT businesses in the world are based in our part of the Thames valley. Those large businesses subcontract to many, many smaller businesses, most of them one-woman or one-man bands who are very dependent on a relatively unstable economic situation. As a growing and rapidly expanding area close to London and the midlands, we have a large amount of construction taking place. We have many small builders and other tradespeople who are dependent on jobs and work which is relatively short-term, and who may see only a few weeks ahead economically. We also have a vibrant transport sector, with a large number of people employed in the aviation industry at Heathrow, many taxi drivers, and many people who work on the railways. All are part of a transport sector that looks set to be severely constrained because of the crisis.
Reading is the main shopping town for the Thames valley and the related parts of the south midlands, and we also have a vibrant gig economy, with a number of distribution centres and warehouses nearby. Many people in this group are also renters, so we have a double hit in our local economy. We have many people who are vulnerable because they have only one month’s guaranteed income ahead, whether they are professional people, people with trades, or people who have other skills, and in the same group of people we also have many young families living in rented accommodation, which is very high cost in an area that is similar in cost to outer London or the centre of major cities around Britain.
I draw the Minister’s attention to this local example, which reflects the situation in many towns and cities throughout the country. There is this collision and reinforcement: people have insecure incomes, are vulnerable and have not yet had their situation addressed by the Government’s measures—however helpful those measures are for larger businesses—and they are also renters in a high-cost local rental economy, where rental income can be as much as £1,000 a month for basic accommodation.
We need to take action and to take it urgently. Will the Minister reconsider the Government’s approach, focus on the needs of these groups of workers and renters, and think about the world from their perspective? Their income is not guaranteed and is vulnerable, and they are the bedrock of the local economy in so many parts of our country and, indeed, in the country as a whole. They deserve our support and respect. We need to come up with a realistic and workable plan, using whatever policy measures are necessary to protect them and their family income and to ensure their safety and security.
Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)
Has the Minister seen proposals from the Communication Workers Union, which yesterday called for Royal Mail to act in effect as a fourth emergency service? Royal Mail is the only organisation in the country that puts workers on every single street, six days a week, and postal workers are trusted in every community. Whether it is through the delivery of prescriptions or food bank parcels, or by checking on elderly people who might need support—particularly if care services cannot be provided to them—Royal Mail could play an important role, if appropriate precautions are taken.
Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the Communication Workers Union? Does he agree that this idea should be explored as a matter of urgency? Will he commit to speak to the union and Royal Mail to discuss it?
Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)
It is difficult to follow such powerful speeches and such great orators, who have made their points so eloquently, so I shall be brief. But I make no apology for reiterating the points on which we need the Government to act now.
Statutory sick pay will now be available for eligible individuals diagnosed with covid-19 or those who are unable to work because they are self-isolating in line with Government advice. It is right to commend the Government for making SSP available on day one, instead of day four, for affected individuals. However, at this time of intense worry and strife, it is also right to highlight where the Government must act to help those who need it.
Statutory sick pay is £94.25 a week, as we have already heard. The equivalent weekly payment on the national minimum wage is £307.88. How can the UK Government justify forcing potentially millions of people to live on less than a third of their usual weekly income? The Chancellor himself stumbled when asked whether he could afford to live on that sum, and I implore colleagues from all parties to ask themselves the same question—could they?
The UK Government’s covid-19 advice on statutory sick pay on the gov.uk website is a total of only 13 lines, but universal credit is mentioned three times. It is important that the Government seek to ensure that those who are not eligible for SSP, or those who are self-employed, are aware that they can claim for universal credit. That is fine, but my colleagues and I have spoken numerous times in this place about the difficulties inherent in the universal credit system. I refer to the fact that applications must be made online and claimants wait a period of five weeks for their first payment.
Will the Minister tell me what steps the Government are taking to assist those who are not able to leave their homes, and who are also unable to access the web, so that they may apply for the benefit? Furthermore, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that new universal credit claimants who are self-isolating, some for periods of up to 16 weeks, do not have to wait five weeks for their first payment? Alternatively, will the Government consider extending the period over which advance payments must be repaid?
The UK Government will refund SSP for small employers who employ fewer than 250 people. This refund, however, will cover only up to two weeks SSP per eligible employee who has been off work because of covid-19. How can the Government reconcile that with their current advice that some employees will have to self-isolate for up to 16 weeks? With thousands of local and independent businesses already scared for their continued existence, will the Government reconsider their policy and offer SSP refunds for the total period of time that employers are required to claim during this crisis?
I do appreciate that these are unknown and challenging times, but I urge the Government to consider people who are falling through the SSP safety net and to act quickly and compassionately now.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
We conclude this debate on statutory sick pay and protection for workers at a time of immense uncertainty, as we are witnessing an implosion in our labour markets and people’s lives being turned upside down. As we have long feared, those in the most insecure work have little resilience to weather this storm. As we speak, thousands of people are being laid off, falling into hardship and fearful for their future. We cannot let the story of coronavirus also be the one about avoidable poverty, so, today, Labour is highlighting how Government must take a far more robust approach to create the safety net that we all need.
The Government have said that no one should be penalised for doing the right thing, yet without stronger underpinning of statutory sick pay and employment and wage protection, many will be plunged into serious debt, unable to pay their rent, their bills and even for their food, as my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda) set out.
I will, if I may, start with workers’ protection. We need all workers to be kept safe and to be protected from contracting coronavirus in the first place. Employers must maintain their duty of care. Too few workers still have access to appropriate PPE, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) set out while paying tribute to NHS staff, and I endorse what he said.
Yesterday, community pharmacists in my constituency highlighted to me how they have now become the frontline of healthcare, and yet they only had a tiny stock of plastic pinnies, gloves and masks. Tradeswomen and men such as plumbers will need to carry out urgent home repairs so will also need protection. Care staff need to be provided with PPE and not expected to pay for it themselves.
Workers must never feel that they have to choose between health—their own and that of others—and hardship. Even after yesterday’s announcement, they were offered little comfort. I have three asks on SSP, isolation leave pay and families’ and carers’ leave. First, no worker should be excluded from statutory pay protection for sickness or isolation no matter their employment status—employee, worker, self-employed, office holder or limb (b) workers. This should also apply no matter what a person earns, which is why the lower earnings limit must go, and no matter whether a person has already taken 28 weeks SSP. All who work should have statutory pay protection for sickness and isolation from day one.
If people are required to stay away from work, or are staying away to protect their health due to existing underlying health conditions, they should not be penalised and neither should their family members be penalised, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) set out. Life must come first. We also need these measures to reach beyond the narrow application of coronavirus. People will be isolating because they have signs of the virus, but not the virus itself. Vulnerable people are at risk from all communicable diseases and so the application of the measures needs to apply to all sickness and isolation absences. While many companies are establishing full pay for those sick and in isolation, others are not. This inequality must be addressed. Universal credit is no substitute, as my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) highlighted with their experience, and, as we have heard in the debate, it pays even less than SSP and takes five weeks to process. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who set out the plight of those who have no recourse to public funds; that must be resolved.
Simple changes to section 16 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 and section 64 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 would ensure that all workers were fairly remunerated and did not experience hardship; with the underpinning of statutory sick pay UK workers would be protected to levels we are seeing elsewhere.
Secondly, as life must come first, to reduce a worker to poverty levels of statutory sick pay at just 18.4% of the average wage will not be sufficient for those forced to make a choice between health and hardship. We cannot afford for anyone to go out to work if the determination is that they should isolate or are sick, but if they are battling to keep their head above water financially, they may lessen the severity of their sickness to justify just to themselves that they are not really a risk.
At a time when other countries are significantly raising their statutory sick pay, the UK, which pays the lowest rate of statutory sick pay compared with the EU27 countries, must now ensure that statutory sick pay provides vital protection. The TUC has highlighted how the real living wage is the right benchmark when full pay is not paid. Many in today’s debate across the House, including my hon. Friends the Members for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel) and for Ilford North, have highlighted the opportunities a universal basic income would provide. The Prime Minister earlier said that he is willing to look at that, and he must.
In light of the possible scale and duration of isolation and sickness expected to be taken, the £1 billion package announced by the Chancellor is totally insufficient. Will the Secretary of State return to the House this week and confirm that she will, through a poverty prevention measure, ensure that statutory sick pay is paid to take away the additional fear of financial hardship, so people will be able to pay their rent bills and fuel and food? Without this significant shift, people will be dependent on other sources of income support, perhaps food banks and other charitable support. However, we know that these are areas in themselves experiencing major challenges at this time. The infrastructure to underpin this completely avoidable poverty is so fragile, so statutory pay must rise.
Thirdly, parents and carers are also facing new challenges as they are having to significantly change their lives. No one should be denied the right to meet family and carer needs at such a time as this, so will the Secretary of State ensure that taking leave for family emergencies and for care provision becomes a right—not a right to ask, but a right to get—and that people remain fully remunerated while doing so? While most employers will be accommodating, this is a critical time, and we need to ensure all parents and carers are supported in this national effort.
I further want to raise the issue of pace. While welcoming the Chancellor’s announcement that he will work with trade unions and businesses to provide wage protection, this needs resolving now—this week. If Denmark and other countries have brought forward a scheme of wage protection, there is no need to reinvent the wheel; we can deliver a scheme through the emergency legislation being laid tomorrow. As my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) said, if it is good enough for workers in other countries, it is good enough here.
Denmark’s first coronavirus case was on 27 February and New Zealand’s first case was on 28 February, and they have developed and delivered support already. The UK’s first case was on 31 January, and we still have nothing to protect people’s incomes. People are losing their jobs now, and it could be avoided; it must be avoided. Employers need confidence that the Government will deliver a package of wage substitution; workers need confidence that they will not face poverty. We need interventions now so that jobs can be saved.
Many workers, where there is a cessation of work through this crisis, may step up in the national effort to provide vital services elsewhere in the economy, for instance in health and care. They will be doing the right thing, so can the Secretary of State ensure their position in their substantive jobs is protected when they return so that like someone returning from maternity leave, they will be able to return to the job they left?
I endorse my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra) in highlighting the extended role that others such as postal workers can play. I urge the Government to meet the CWU and to explore that terrain further.
The last few days have exposed the weaknesses in zero-hours contracts—workers who are reduced to zero hours, yet must still be available to work. Those workers are desperate. Some 1.87 million of them will not qualify for statutory sick pay, and 70% of those people are women. I ask the Secretary of State to end this insecurity in work. All workers need security, not least at a time such as this. Will she move to ensure that all employment become substantive, and that workers are placed on proper contracts underpinned by the same securities afforded to all employees?
Workers and employers are being called upon to take extraordinary steps to protect our country from the worst aspects of covid-19. They need a Government who recognise all the challenges they face, and who will provide the full protection that they need. The Chancellor promised to do this, so will the Secretary of State ensure that all the holes that continue to exist in the safety net are closed, with the publication of the emergency legislation. Will she ensure that workers get the support they need to save them from hardship? All these things are political choices. Making the right call today may save us from the worst aspects of an economic crisis, and reset the dial for a fairer and more equitable country to come.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)
First, let me thank all Members from across the House who have taken the time to attend this important debate, and to speak about their concerns in such a constructive and collaborative way. I will try to answer as many of the numerous points raised as possible, but I stress that—as hon. Members know—my door is always open and my phone is always on. If Members have urgent cases, please reach out to me and other Ministers on the Treasury Bench; we will look to take the appropriate action, as necessary.
As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor made clear yesterday, we will do whatever it takes to support people, jobs and businesses, and to help people to protect their loved ones. This includes the measures we are taking on statutory sick pay, in order to ensure that everybody is supported to do the right thing and follow the Government advice on self-isolation. We must come together to fight this virus and protect the most vulnerable, and statutory sick pay is part of our welfare safety net and our wider Government offer to support people in times of need. That is why we are ensuring that our welfare safety net provides the right level of support in these exceptional times. We have extended statutory sick pay to those who are self-isolating, in line with the latest Government health guidance, and the upcoming emergency Bill will make statutory sick pay payable from day one instead of day four. This is the right thing to do to ensure that eligible individuals are supported to stay at home in self-isolation, protecting themselves and others.
As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out, the Government will stand behind businesses, both large and small. As a DWP Minister, I know that the best way to support people is through protecting their jobs. Small and medium-sized businesses are the backbone of our economy, and we will support them to implement these measures. Employers with fewer than 250 employees will be able to reclaim up to two weeks’ statutory sick pay paid for sickness absences relating to the coronavirus—a measure that could help up to 2 million businesses. These changes will help to provide certainty and security for individuals and businesses affected by coronavirus.
Statutory sick pay is just one of the Government’s offers of support and protection. The safety net also extends to those who are self-employed or who work in the gig economy. Workers on zero-hours contracts or in the gig economy may be eligible for sick pay and should check with their employers, but we are here to support those who are not eligible, and they can make a claim for universal credit or contributory employment and support allowance. Last week, we made changes so that the seven waiting days for employment and support allowance for new claimants affected by coronavirus or required to self-isolate will not apply. That means that ESA is payable from day one, without the need to provide medical evidence and without the need to attend a work capability assessment. Those required to self-isolate or who are ill with coronavirus can receive up to a month’s advance from day one, with no need to physically attend a jobcentre—that point was raised by Opposition Members. Any individuals affected by coronavirus will have their work search and work availability requirements switched off, and affected self-employed claimants will not have a minimum income floor applied during this period.
A number of specific points have been raised, and I will try to cover as many as possible. The hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) raised the important point about the communication of changes. Everything is on gov.uk, and Departments also use social media, such as Twitter, to highlight changes. There are also daily press conferences where updates on coronavirus are given by the Prime Minister, and he is increasingly being accompanied by another member of the Cabinet. However, I take the hon. Gentleman’s point that communications in times like this are incredibly important, and I will certainly feed back to the Cabinet Office that where improvements can be made to Government communications, particularly for businesses—that is the point he made—that should be done.
Bill Esterson
I am grateful for that answer, and I know the Minister will do his best to carry out what he just promised. Will he also make sure that that information comes to us and to local authorities in a timely fashion, as we are often in a position to get it out to a great number of people in a short space of time?
Will Quince
I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that case. I know from my postbag and email account that a number of businesses and individuals affected, who are concerned on health grounds or who have concerns about their employment or financial status, will contact their Member of Parliament. We are not always the first port of call—we are sometimes the last—but we are one where people expect to be able to get a response quickly, so I will look at what further guidance and advice we can give to Members of this House and through local authorities. That point about getting the message out to local authorities may well have been heard, because the relevant Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) , is sitting on the Treasury Bench behind me.
The hon. Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) raised the point about SSP and the rebate for employees, and whether that could be for more than two weeks. I understand the point she is making. The current Government advice is for people to self-isolate for seven days or for 14 days if in a household, so we feel that the two-week limit on rebates is a proportionate response. She also asked why SSP is not at the same rate as the living wage. The current system is designed to balance support for the individual with the costs to the employer. As the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work mentioned at the beginning of this debate, we have put £1 billion into the welfare system to provide additional financial security for people, and people on low income can get a top-up, where applicable, through UC.
Numerous hon. Members, including the hon. Members for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) and for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), raised a point about the private rented sector. Today at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister did say that we will be bringing forward legislation to protect private renters from eviction, and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government is considering whether we need to go further on that point.
The right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) both raised a point about the consultation on the lower earnings limit. Our immediate concern in dealing with the covid-19 outbreak is to ensure that a suitable financial safety net is in place, and the benefits system does provide that. We estimate that about 60% of people earning below the lower earnings limit are already in receipt of benefits. Our longer-term aim in that consultation was about preserving the link between the employer and the employee so that the individual receives appropriate support upon return to work. That is less relevant when most people are facing short periods away from work. I or the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work would be happy to meet those Members at a later point to discuss that further.
Numerous hon. Members asked why the focus so far has been on businesses and has not just been about individuals. It is so important that organisations are able to carry on trading, which is why the initial focus of Her Majesty’s Treasury has been on supporting business and keeping people in work where it is sensible and appropriate, based on Government guidance, to do so. Ultimately, that protects so many individuals in our society, but of course we are also looking at other measures for workers.
The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), the right hon. Member for East Ham and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts all made the point about raising the level of statutory sick pay. We continue to look at other support for workers to see what best mechanisms are available. Thankfully, a period of absence is likely to be short—we believe between seven and 14 days—but we know that some may need extra support, as Members across the Chamber have said. We know that low-paid workers are likely to be receiving additional support through universal credit, for example, and the advantage of universal credit is that it will go up if income falls to the equivalent SSP level.
Rachel Reeves
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for addressing the points that hon. Members have made. It is true that people will not have to take that long off to self-isolate for their recovery, but overall, there is likely to be a suppression of demand in the economy for a longer period. The idea that people may be off work for only one or two weeks is fine if that is for health reasons, but if it is because their business is closed or there is just not work available, it is likely to be a lot longer. That is the point that many Members have been trying to make.
Will Quince
I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. I reassure Members that the Government are doing all they can to ensure that everybody is supported to do the right thing. It is crucial that everyone follows the Government guidance on self-isolation—that has been clear throughout the debate—to protect themselves and others. The measures that we have announced and will put forward in the emergency Bill will support people to do so.
To come directly to the hon. Lady’s point, the Chancellor has announced that in the coming days the Government will go much further to support people’s financial security, working with trade unions—another point made by the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra)—and businesses to urgently develop new forms of employment support to help to protect people’s jobs and incomes through this period. I know that the hon. Lady would like to tempt me to go further but, as I think she will understand, that is somewhat above my pay grade. It is very important, however, that debates such as this take place, because it will have been heard by Her Majesty’s Treasury and will be taken in the spirit of working collaboratively on a cross-party basis. I certainly take those ideas on board, and if Members have further ideas about how we can better support some of the most vulnerable people in our society, my door is always open, and I would welcome them coming forward with those.
The right hon. Member for East Ham, the Chair of the Select Committee, raised the point about the habitual residence test. The test has operational procedures already in place to expedite confirmation of eligibility, but I will take this point away and give it further thought—I had not given it consideration before he raised it and I would be very happy to meet him to discuss it further.
We have a safety net that helps people facing hardship if they cannot work or are seeking work. Depending on their individual circumstances, employees can claim universal credit and/or new-style ESA or JSA. As the Prime Minister set out, the Government will keep everything under review. The package that was set out at the Budget and the new measures that were recently announced should give some reassurance that support will be provided to support jobs, income and businesses. As the Chancellor said, we will do “whatever it takes”.
We are in extraordinary times. The coronavirus pandemic is the most serious public health emergency that our nation has faced for a generation. Our policy is to protect lives and fight this virus with everything we have, and the Government have been clear in their approach: we will do whatever it takes to get the nation through these testing times. We will protect people, their jobs and businesses through this period to ensure that we keep as many people as safe as possible.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the matter of Statutory Sick Pay and protection available for all workers.
Local Government Responsibilities: Public Services
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the statutory and broader local government responsibilities for public services, including social care.
In the coming weeks and months, it is right that the Government focus on the fight against coronavirus. Local government will be on the frontline of that fight. Local services, from social care and public health to bin collections and now, most importantly, support for volunteering, will help us to overcome the challenge.
It is a time of uncertainty for many people across the country, and the Government need to provide as much certainty as they can. One thing we know is that older people, and those with underlying health conditions, are at greater risk from coronavirus than the rest of the population, as is clear from the social distancing guidelines issued for those groups this week. That means that, in the coming months, social care will be more important than ever because it not only helps to keep hospital beds clear for those who need them, but touches the lives of some of the most vulnerable. Care staff, therefore, will often be on the frontline of our efforts to stop the spread of the disease.
We are particularly concerned about home careworkers, who might provide care for up to a dozen older and disabled people in their homes every day. We want all necessary measures to be taken to protect care staff and the people they work with. As with the NHS, an important part of the solution is personal protective equipment and measures for infection control.
Care providers will face extra costs due to the need for more personal protective equipment and for enhanced cleaning of care homes and people’s own homes, and other measures to minimise the spread of infection—for example, zoning some staff in care homes. Last week, I raised with Ministers the fact that providers have faced great difficulty in obtaining personal protective equipment, and that also applies to infection control products, hand wash and disposable hand towels.
The care sector is extremely worried about being able to get essential supplies such as personal protective equipment. Commissioners can mitigate that by funding the extra costs and by helping providers to access personal protective equipment, perhaps by using some of their own contracts. The Government need to give guidance to local authorities and care providers, however, on the provision and use of personal protective equipment for careworkers and on whether help with accessing supplies can be given to reduce the spread of coronavirus.
We have just had a debate on statutory sick pay, which is particularly important for care staff, who are on the frontline of the outbreak. If they are ill, it is vital that they follow the public health advice and self-isolate, but the reality, as we heard, is that many care staff, like other staff, cannot afford to do so. Even if they are eligible for statutory sick pay, which we do not think they all will be, it is only £94 a week. The Minister needs to set out now what the Government will do to ensure that no careworker has to choose between doing the right thing and facing overwhelming financial problems.
Care providers are also facing increased cost pressures due to staff self-isolating or being off sick. It is right that statutory sick pay will start at day one, rather than day four, but that will increase employers’ liability for statutory sick pay. Requirements for workers to self-isolate will further increase financial pressures on employers. Given that, in virtually all cases, care providers will have to backfill sickness absence to ensure the continued delivery of support, that represents a real cost pressure on providers. With local authority budgets stretched, how can they support care providers to provide for extra statutory sick pay, the cost of backfilling care staff and the personal protective equipment and other materials that will be needed to get through the crisis?
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making a compelling case for why the Government should announce specific support for the social care sector. I noticed yesterday that the Chancellor did not make specific reference to the social care sector which, as my hon. Friend points out, is in a fragile state and under enormous pressures. Is it not time for specific support for the social care sector to be announced?
Barbara Keeley
I agree with my hon. Friend. It is great to hear that the NHS will get what it needs, but what about the social care sector?
We know, as my hon. Friend just said, that many care providers were already on the brink of collapse. Many will not have reserves to fall back on. I ask the Minister, as my hon. Friend just has: what will the Government do to sustain care provision and ensure that care providers are able to carry on delivering care at this time?
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
My hon. Friend is making a good point about social care in the broader sense. I want to raise the needs of local charities, some of which provide social care, and others provide a range of other services. Does she know whether some of the funding that the Government have allocated to local authorities will be earmarked to support continued funding of those local charities and community groups, or whether that has not yet been considered?
Barbara Keeley
That is a very good question, and we should ask it in addition to the questions that I will ask, because the independent and voluntary sector is vital in our communities and in care provision.
I want to touch on the issues facing care homes across the country. We know that the Government are asking older people to avoid social contact for the next three months, but we need to be clear—clearer than we have been—about what that will mean for people in care homes. Will the Government recommend that all visits from friends and family be stopped until June? Can the Minister tell us what guidance on visits they are giving to organisations running care homes? Providers and their networks do not seem to have had any clarity yet.
The Care Quality Commission has announced a pause in its inspections, freeing up staff time to focus on care, but today it has published its independent review of Whorlton Hall. That was a shocking scandal. People with learning disabilities and autistic people and their families will want reassurances that, once this crisis passes, the CQC will focus its full efforts on ensuring that something like Whorlton Hall never happens again.
Many older and disabled people do not receive formal social care. Instead, they rely on unpaid friends and family. I know that many unpaid carers are worried that they will contract coronavirus or have to self-isolate and be unable to give the care they normally do. What steps should any unpaid carer who has symptoms of coronavirus take? If they are being asked to self-isolate, what alternative care can be provided at short notice? If someone cares for a person they do not live with, what steps can be taken if the carer has to self-isolate or if the Government have to further restrict travel, as many unpaid carers live some distance away from the people they care for?
Young carers—children and young people—may need more support than others in managing the changing situation in their lives, especially if their local supermarket or pharmacist does not have supplies. It is important that, if schools or years within schools close, it is understood which children within those schools are identified as young carers. It is often the case that a school or a teacher within a school is the only person who knows that one of their pupils is looking after someone at home. Schools could nominate a lead person to make regular contact with young carers during this difficult time when they are not in school.
Another major issue facing carers is the supply of medicines, hygiene products and food. Carers have to source supplies such as antibacterial wipes or disinfectant themselves. Unfortunately, we have seen panic buying of those goods, making them far harder to acquire. What can the Government and local authorities do to ensure that unpaid carers and the people they care for do not have to go without crucial supplies, including food?
The Government’s reasonable worst-case scenario implies that we can expect to see one in five workers off sick at the same time. There are an estimated 122,000 vacancies across social care currently—a workforce problem that we know forces existing care staff to cut visits short or work beyond their paid hours. It is understandable that people receiving care and unpaid family carers are very concerned about how care can be provided if we get to a situation where large numbers of care staff are off sick or self-isolating.
In the coronavirus Bill, the Government want to make changes to the Care Act 2014 to enable local authorities to prioritise the services they offer, in order to ensure that the most urgent and serious care needs are met, even if that means not meeting everyone’s assessed needs in full or delaying some assessments. I am sure that we will discuss those measures when we consider the Bill next week, but the guidance on the Bill says:
“Local authorities will still be expected to do as much as they can to comply with their duties to meet needs during this period and these amendments would not remove the duty of care they have towards an individual’s risk of serious neglect or harm.
These powers would only be used if demand pressures and workforce illness during the pandemic meant that local authorities were at imminent risk of failing to fulfil their duties and only last the duration of the emergency.”
I know that people who are worried about this will want to hear any further guidance on the circumstances under which the powers would be used. Finally, I want to touch on some of the issues facing specific groups who are receiving social care.
Gareth Thomas
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way to me a second time. Is there not also a broader point about certainty of future funding for local authorities and certainty about which of the additional costs they face from coronavirus will be met by central Government going forward? My local authority, which is not by any definition well off, is concerned about when it will receive clarity from the Government on which costs it can reasonably expect Ministers to cover.
Barbara Keeley
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We will need certainty about those things when we look at the coronavirus emergency Bill, which we will do shortly, but this lands on local authorities at a time when they do not have any certainty. There is much about their financial position that needs to be made clearer to local authorities. I also agree with my hon. Friend: my local authority has had budgets cut by more than 50% since 2010, and we were in what we were calling a crisis in social care even before this happened.
I want to talk more fully about people with dementia and people with learning disabilities. There are a million people with dementia in this country and many people with learning disabilities. Not all of them will be able to comprehend the importance of self-isolation and then act appropriately. What measures and guidance will the Government introduce to help people with learning disabilities or dementia to self-isolate? Many working-age people with disabilities may be more vulnerable. Conditions such as Down syndrome or multiple sclerosis could increase the risk of respiratory infection, and the guidance suggests that people with these conditions would self-isolate. Can the Minister tell us what financial support will be available for them and their families if they have to stop work to do that?
We understand that this is a difficult and challenging time for all, but the Government have talked of using volunteers in health and social care services. People with disabilities and older people who need care have some of the most complex care needs. How will the Government ensure that people with complex needs continue to receive the support and care they need to stay in their own homes?
Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
In this crisis we need to make the most of volunteers and that spirit in the community of helping out, but at the same ensure that things such as Disclosure and Barring Service checks are done appropriately and that vulnerable people are kept safe from other risks, including those of unscrupulous interveners.
Barbara Keeley
I thank the right hon. Member for that intervention. I think most of us are concerned in our constituencies to ensure that we have enough people to help out, but do not have the wrong sort of people getting involved. We do not want to start seeing scams and people defrauded, because that would be a terrible way to proceed.
We need to look at how far we can stretch the idea that volunteers can help in health and social care, because in certain situations—for example, an elderly person with very poor skin condition, with sores, who needed particular lifting, or somebody who was PEG-fed, using percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy—we cannot even use DBS-checked volunteers.
Dame Diana Johnson
There are people who genuinely want to help and do their best for their community, but I am concerned to ensure that DBS checks are in place—an issue that has been alluded to—and also about infection control, which fits nicely with what my hon. Friend the shadow Minister has just said about some of the procedures that people may be asked to help with. There are real questions about the training and the infection control that need to be in place if we use volunteers.
Barbara Keeley
Very much so. I am following all the social media input from my constituents, and I am glad to see that people are very keen to help. However, we must be careful, because we are talking about very vulnerable people, often with complex care needs, and we do not want to put them into difficulties through the efforts of volunteers, so we need guidance on that point.
Let me turn to self-isolation. I had to self-isolate for five days last week, and I know it is not easy, but it will be particularly hard for people with anxiety disorders, who rely on a routine to cope. Both now and once we are on the other side of this, what support will the Government be offering to help address the mental health consequences of the pandemic and of self-isolation or shielding for long periods? I noticed in the media that there were programmes showing what is being done in Wuhan in China, with hundreds of counsellors talking to people on a phone helpline, talking them through the difficulties they were experiencing. I think we may have to be thinking about something like that. In particular, many older people are now looking at several months potentially locked down in their own home, so what can the Government do to ensure that those people do not become lonely and isolated, with all the mental health consequences that would cause?
The challenges facing local government over the coming months are not limited to social care. The Government finally published yesterday the public health grant for the next financial year. Between 2014-15 and 2019-20, budgets were cut by £870 million, although there has been an increase to the grant this year. While the publication of the allocations finally provides some certainty to local authorities, the reality is that their public health functions are likely to be focused on coronavirus for the foreseeable future. Public health services such as smoking cessation are vital to prevent people from acquiring long-term health conditions such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which can make a future case of coronavirus more serious. Will the Minister commit to allocating further money to public health if local authorities need it to keep people safe during the crisis?
The other major area of concern is homelessness. The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government announced a fund yesterday to help local authorities provide accommodation for homeless people who might have coronavirus, which is welcome, but given the scale of the homelessness crisis in this country, can the Minister tell us whether that fund will be topped up if needed? We do not want local authorities to have to ration support now because they think they might need some of it later.
I understand we are expecting a statement at 5 o’clock on education, and the Government are not yet closing schools—we may hear more at 5 o’clock—but we do see more teaching staff off work ill or self-isolating. Schools are being closed for certain years, and other closures look increasingly likely. I have seen that in my constituency. For many children, school is a place where they can get breakfast and free school meals. If children have to stay at home, they may go hungry. What support will be put in place to protect those children if schools are closed, whether that means providing food for them or ensuring that social services are monitoring their condition?
Lastly, I want to mention bins and waste collection. The safe handling of waste that could be contaminated by coronavirus will be a major challenge for public health and for the protection of the staff who work in that vital service. Will the Minister tell us what action is being taken alongside local authorities to ensure the continuity of waste collection services, given that the staff who work in those services will themselves be subject to illness and self-isolation?
We also need to think about council tax. If the Government are giving business rate relief for coronavirus, why not council tax relief for the general population? If people are out of work for an extended period, council tax is a big cost. Councils would need reimbursement for lost income, as they would with business rates. Additionally, we need councils to show some restraint with pursuing council tax arrears through the courts. Although loss of income for councils could be a very big issue at a time like this, depending on how long everything lasts, everything points to Government support and action for that. I should say to the Minister that I am happy to supply him with a list of all the questions I have asked, because it is very difficult for him to answer everything all in one go.
Coronavirus poses a unique challenge for this country. We will all need to work together to tackle it. The work that local authorities do will be central to addressing the crisis and will help to hold communities together as we do so. It will not be easy, and I am sure there are many issues we have not foreseen. I thank everyone working in local government and in social care and all our teachers and teaching staff, because they are a vital frontline service. I hope the Minister can reassure the House that local authorities will get all the help they need in the weeks and months ahead to tackle this crisis and to carry on providing the services that people rely on every day.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Luke Hall)
I thank the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) for the constructive and collaborative tone she has taken in this debate. She has raised a number of very sensible and serious questions. I will do my best to answer as many as I can, and I will try to make sure the ones I cannot answer are answered in the wind-up.
I join the hon. Lady in putting on record my thanks to local authorities across the country for their wholehearted response to the coronavirus crisis and for reassuring and supporting residents. I have seen that with my local authority, and I am sure Opposition Members have seen it with their local authorities, too. I know hon. Members on both sides of the House will join me in recognising the contribution local authorities will make in the weeks and months to come as we move through this difficult time for our country.
As the Prime Minister has said, this is the worst public health crisis in a generation. We are committed to responding, and our measures are comprehensive. We are offering UK-wide support to ensure people in all four corners of the country receive the help they need. Our fiscal action will support public services, households and businesses, and whatever resources the national health service needs, it will get.
I am working closely with the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and with ministerial colleagues across Government to ensure councils get the funding they need to see their residents through this crisis. Our priority response is to provide security and support for those who get sick, and for those who are unable to work, through the direct funding of public services. Of course, we stand ready to do whatever is necessary to support councils in their response to the coronavirus.
The Secretary of State addressed over 300 council leaders in England on Monday and outlined the three priority areas on which we are asking them to focus in the weeks and months ahead: social care, supporting vulnerable people and supporting local economies.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
I welcome this as a nudge in the right direction. Although I appreciate the “dear colleague” letter we have all received and what the Minister has just said, there is still a vulnerable group of people who risk being overlooked by the Government’s initiatives, and that is the elderly and vulnerable who live on their own, whether or not they are ill. There is a risk that they will be inadvertently overlooked in such a scenario and in such extraordinary times. As a society, we have to reach out to them.
I urge the Minister to look at this again because, at the moment, that group does not feature in any Government initiative. The Government should be sending a clear message that they will provide whatever support it takes for local councils to reach out to those people. Many may be in rural settings, but there may be a lot in the city, too. Local councils should reach out, locate them, identify them and offer help, if necessary tying in local charitable causes or charities to help them in that assistance. The message must go out to local government to reach out, because we do not want anyone to be left behind.
Luke Hall
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I give him my assurance that the work has already started. We are already starting to compile those lists and, of course, we are working with local resilience forums and councils, which will be the fundamental units in administering that support. We will, of course, talk more about this in the weeks ahead.
Mr Baron
I do not want to test the Minister’s patience, but I want clarity on this issue. This is not just about those who may be self-isolating or who may be ill; it is about people living on their own who we simply do not know about, whether or not they are healthy. We have to reach out and find out. Is that what the Minister is saying from the Dispatch Box?
Luke Hall
Yes. I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that assurance. Our response measures sit alongside the well-versed contingency plans and frameworks we have for times of difficulty. Everyone here will appreciate that, perhaps now more than ever, we rely on our public services, and I am confident they are up to the task.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
This is such an important topic, as the Minister appreciates, and our local services and local authorities are very much on the frontline. What will happen in terms of emergency legislation for the powers that local authorities have, and how will the democratic process work in this crisis?
Theresa Villiers
I hope the Minister and the House will take this opportunity to pay tribute to all the workers involved in local authority services, including those in the care sector—not only care workers but cleaners, too—as well as those who cleanse our streets and who collect our refuse. None of them can work at home, and all of them are putting themselves at risk by being in the public space to do their job to keep society safe and to keep society going. It is important to send out the message that we appreciate them, just as we appreciate our wonderful NHS staff, too.
Luke Hall
I thank my right hon. Friend for those words. She is absolutely right: we should commend our public servants and local authorities hugely for the work they will be doing in the days and weeks ahead, and I would like again to put on the record my thanks to them. If the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) will bear with me, I will touch on his point a little later.
We have already outlined an extensive package of support to combat the effects of this crisis. A lot of the points made by the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South and other hon. Members were, rightly, about future funding for local authorities. I completely understand that, and perhaps it is worth addressing that at the start of my remarks.
The Chancellor announced last week that £5 billion would be made available for the public service response, with more to come if and when it is necessary. Let me say right from the start that we know that councils are under considerable financial pressure in responding to this crisis. We know that they will need more financial support from the Government, and we will give them that support. We are still having conversations with the sector—the Local Government Association and councils —to refine exactly what that might look like, but we will outline further steps we intend to take in this area very shortly.
Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)
Local councils do not get their income only from business rates and council tax; we should recognise that, in the context of 10 years of austerity, many have used their trading opportunities to generate income. For example, Luton Council relies on passengers going through our airport to generate income that funds council services. With the massive changes to airlines, that income will drop off. Obviously, that will need to be taken into account in any support offered by the Government.
Luke Hall
I thank the hon. Lady for putting that point on the record. She is absolutely right to do so. I very much hope that we will outline imminently the steps that we are looking at taking to support councils further.
Yesterday, the Chancellor announced in the House a series of measures to support communities in response to the crisis. The funding he announced amounted to more than £330 billion of financial support, equivalent to 15% of UK GDP. The £10,000 grants to small businesses that are eligible for small business rate relief and the £25,000 grants to retail, hospitality and leisure businesses operating from smaller premises will no doubt help to alleviate pressure on local businesses across the country, but we understand the pressures that are about to come. The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy will write to all local authorities in the coming hours to set out how exactly those are to be delivered and the mechanisms by which they can be administered.
Dame Diana Johnson
I am interested to hear that. My concern is that my council, Hull City Council, is under enormous pressure trying to deal with the surge that it seems we are about to see with covid-19. Will local authorities receive additional resources to allow them to do all the things that the Government are asking them to do to support the business sector? Are councils getting sufficient money to enable them to do that?
Luke Hall
I am sorry to give the hon. Lady a similar answer to the one I gave the hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins), but we will outline a package of support very shortly. I can assure her that that guidance will be out by the end of tomorrow. I very much hope that by that time her local authority will have security to start financial planning.
Gareth Thomas
I understand the difficulty the Minister has in giving us the clarity we would all like on our authorities’ particular concerns. Certainly, my local authority would like clarity that this package of support will not be for just this financial year, albeit that the support, and clarity on what it can be spent on, is needed now. Given the impact that this situation will have on local authority finances beyond this financial year, it would be reassuring to have soon the beginnings of some certainty about financial support for the next financial year. Local authority staff would also like the ability to get in contact with people in Government so they can understand and pass on answers to some of the detailed questions that businesses and other organisations have about what the Government are announcing.
Luke Hall
Those are two points well made. On the hon. Gentleman’s second point, if he is having any trouble at all communicating with my Department, he should please let me know directly. I assure him that we are speaking to councils every single day to make sure that we communicate information as quickly as possible in this fast-moving environment. We understand that getting out the guidance as quickly as we can is going to be vital.
As the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South said, the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government announced the initial £3.2 million targeted at rough sleepers and people who are in danger of sleeping rough, in case they need accommodation should they need to self-isolate. She asked for assurances about whether that was the totality of the amount; I assure her that that was the initial funding. We are of course continuing to look at what will be a complex matter as we look to support some of those people into accommodation during self-isolation periods.
Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)
I am pleased that the Government have announced financial support, but support for local councils is about more than just money. We have to be serious: this is about the people who deliver essential services, whether it is sweeping the streets or being carers. What steps are the Government going to take to make sure that we have enough people working at councils if a lot of council staff have to self-isolate or are sick? We know, for instance, that a lot of airlines are currently laying off a lot of people; is there any provision to use people who have recently been laid off to provide some of the essential services to keep our country going?
Luke Hall
I thank my hon. Friend for making that point in the way that he did. All local authorities are, of course, working through their contingency plans, which include staffing plans. I am happy to sit down with him and ensure that we look in detail at his local authority’s contingency plans. It is worth confirming that additional military personnel will help local resilience forums with their coronavirus response plans. In order that local government bodies can focus on the priorities of supporting social care, vulnerable people and local economies, we must allow them to direct their resources into the key priorities on which we are working with them. We do not want to slow down their response times, which is why we are looking at giving councils greater flexibility. That is also why we have confirmed that routine Care Quality Commission inspections will be temporarily suspended. We will take a pragmatic approach to inspection and will, of course, continue to take the proportionate actions necessary to make sure that we are keeping people safe.
We are also allowing councils to use their discretion on deadlines for freedom of information requests during this period, and we have extended the deadline for local government financial audits to 30 September this year. We are considering bringing forward legislation to remove the requirement for annual council meetings to take place in person, and legislation to allow council committee meetings to be held virtually, online, for a temporary period. Legislation is also being prepared to postpone local elections until May 2021, with measures to be introduced by the coronavirus Bill. We intend the legislation to cover all local elections and by-elections during this period.
Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that we have amazing communities in this country? I have been on the phone to local authorities and volunteer groups in Hastings and Rye today, and the way that our communities are pulling together to help in this crisis is absolutely phenomenal. It essential that we facilitate that as much as we can, and I know that that is what the Minister is doing.
Luke Hall
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: the community spirit that we see throughout the country, with people rallying to support friends, neighbours, vulnerable people and loved ones, is absolutely inspirational. I have seen it in south Gloucestershire and my hon. Friend has seen it in Hastings and Rye, and I know it is happening all around the country. I will touch on that later in my remarks.
We have given councils the flexibilities that I outlined to ensure that they are not required to divert staff from their urgent tasks, allowing them to get on with the priorities that we are setting out.
I also wish to talk about social care and the measures that we are taking with regard to that key priority area that the Secretary of State has outlined. We know that social care, especially for the elderly and disabled, will be at the forefront of our response to coronavirus. The Government will ensure that whatever our social care system and national health service needs, it will get. As I mentioned, we have already set aside £5 billion to support our NHS and public services. We also published on 13 March guidance on adult social care for care homes, home care providers and supported living providers. The guidance sets out how to maintain the delivery of care in the event of an outbreak of widespread transmission of coronavirus and what to do if care workers or individuals being cared for have symptoms of coronavirus.
As part of that essential contingency social care planning, we and local areas are also considering how best to harness the many people who are so keen to help as volunteers to alleviate the pressure on social care workers and the system. It is going to be critical that local authorities work very closely with the care sector to ensure that providers build on the existing plans and protocols that are in place to respond to the challenge. We are also confident that local authorities will work with the national health service in their areas and regions to make sure that people are cared for in the most appropriate setting. The health and social care workforce is under increasing pressure, and volunteers will be an invaluable resource for local areas to draw on in the event of emergencies. We will say more about this in the coming hours and days.
I am confident that all Members will support the Government’s efforts to make sure we have the best possible use of the fantastic skills and willingness to help of our citizens in responding to this crisis.
David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
I completely agree with what the Minister said about the reliance we will place on professionals and volunteers. One of the concerns that has been raised with me by my local authority is that many of those professionals are in the process of qualifying and they will be asked to see examinations that they expected to take—qualification processes—deferred, so that they can spend their valuable time now focusing on those who are most in need. Can the Minister provide some assurance to those professionals that the understandable interruption to their professional qualifications will not in any way disadvantage them in the progress they would otherwise have made, so that they can get on with that vital job today, knowing that they will be able to return to their studies, qualifications and professional development in due course, without inappropriate interruption?
Luke Hall
My hon. Friend makes a very important and sensible point, and I will make sure that that is given some further thought. I thank him for raising it in the debate today.
One of the questions the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South raised was about PPE, and she was right to do so. We need to make sure that the care sector has the PPE that it needs. I would like to update the House that free distribution of fluid-repellent facemasks from the pandemic flu stock will start today, with every care home and every care provider receiving at least 300 facemasks that will be distributed through the usual channels. It will take seven days to distribute the full amount, but it is a good start to make sure that people have the PPE that they need. We are of course also thinking about beyond next week, and we are working rapidly with the wholesalers to ensure the longer-term supply of all the aspects of PPE, including gloves, aprons, face masks and hand sanitiser, which the hon. Lady also raised.
Dame Diana Johnson
My issue is about the volunteers, and I wonder whether the Government have given any thought to removing the charge for Disclosure and Barring Service checks to hopefully speed the process up so that the cost is not incurred, to help to get the volunteers to where we need them to be.
Luke Hall
I reassure the hon. Lady that we are looking at speed and depth at all these issues to make sure that we get the approach right. Several hon. Members have rightly highlighted the fact that we are talking about protecting some of the most vulnerable people in our society, so of course we want to get that balance right. We are considering in detail how that is best achieved, but I will absolutely make sure that that point is taken away.
Barbara Keeley
I would just like to ask a further question on the protective equipment that we have just talked about. I am glad to hear that masks, hand sanitiser and any of the things that are needed are coming forward, because there has been a lot of concern in the care sector about it. I would like it to be a consideration that in some of the situations that care staff will be, they will need what is in very short supply in the NHS. They are going to need more, because it is not just a question of normal infection control. We need to protect the care staff themselves, because I think there is a very real fear that may cause more people to give up on the job if we are not careful about it. It is too risky for the staff to have that contact with maybe up to a dozen people in their homes every day. I hope we can expand our thinking to take into account that sometimes the more serious PPE that is used in hospitals will have to be used by care staff.
Luke Hall
I am glad the hon. Lady welcomes some of the immediate progress being made. She makes an important and serious point, which I will consider in depth. I am happy to discuss it with her in the days ahead.
We must also acknowledge that the crisis will not only put enormous pressure on our social care system and our most vulnerable people, but hit our local economies. We must play our part to protect those around us as well as to actively protect the local economies that underpin our communities. I will therefore set out measures the Government are taking to reflect that local priority.
Local venues, including pubs and theatres, are the pillars of local communities, and we understand the importance of giving them our wholehearted support in the weeks and months ahead. That is why we are giving all retail, hospitality and leisure businesses in England a 100% business rates holiday for the next 12 months and increasing grants to small businesses eligible for small business rate relief from £3,000 to £10,000; we are also increasing the planned rates discount for pubs to £5,000 as part of mitigating the social and economic effects of the virus.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
We have two theatres in Milton Keynes. Understandably, they are incredibly worried about their future. What specific measures are being taken to support theatres at this time? Perhaps I could intervene with a further point to do with breweries in a minute.
Luke Hall
May I suggest that my hon. Friend and I meet after the debate, so I can outline in detail some of the measures relevant to his local establishments? I would be happy to do that.
It is important that as part of mitigating some of the effects of the virus, we are working with the 38 local resilience forums in England, which have plans and frameworks for pandemic influenza already in place. We will supplement our support for LRFs with a new taskforce to compare preparations, to identify gaps and to highlight where additional assistance might be required for local authorities.
Matt Western
The question from my local authorities, is will his Department issue guidance on how they join up the local authority resilience partnership with the local health resilience partnership?
Luke Hall
I assure the hon. Gentleman that the local resilience forums engage regularly with the local health partnerships—in fact, many health partnerships have a seat on the LRF. I am happy to take a look at his local LRF and discuss the matter with him, to make sure that that conversation is happening. We are working to ensure that LRF preparedness is ready across the country, including with tabletop exercises. We have Andy Battle, a retired deputy chief constable, looking through all the plans, and I am happy to look at the hon. Gentleman’s local plan specifically to make sure there is sufficient engagement with the national health service in his community.
The covid-19 LRF taskforce will also enhance LRFs’ abilities to respond to coronavirus by rapidly assessing preparedness. We are continuing to work closely with local authorities and their partners to prepare for the most intense phase of the crisis, and by helping local businesses and communities to plan, we will be prepared as a nation to meet the challenges we face.
We will take whatever action is necessary to ensure that local government can continue its vital function in the weeks ahead. We are committed to supporting local government to deliver our priorities of social care, providing vital support for vulnerable people and supporting their local economies. Local partners are keeping their plans under constant review and getting close support from this Government to ensure that plans are fully up to date and reflect the relevant scientific advice on coronavirus. For now though, it is clearly right that we focus on ensuring that local authorities can play their essential part in the wider national effort. We have taken decisive action already by providing additional funding to key public services and directly to the most vulnerable. We have acted by lightening the regulatory burden on local authorities. We have acted by reviewing and improving local resilience and economic preparedness efforts. I am, like other hon. Members, aware that we will need to do more in the coming weeks. We stand prepared to do that. I will ensure that I am available to any Member of this House who wants to discuss their local preparedness and to meet their local agencies. Our resilience teams are, of course, engaged with every local area to make sure that we have absolutely up-to-date intelligence in Government, to knit together at the national level.
Our commitment to ensuring that local authorities have the tools they need to respond to coronavirus is unwavering. We will give councils the support they need. We will be able to outline the further steps we intend to take very shortly. In supporting local authorities to deliver the services they need to deliver, we will do whatever it takes.
David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)
I start by thanking the Opposition for bringing forward today’s debate. I wish to approach my speech in two parts: first, to address the effect of the coronavirus pandemic; and then to finish with some comments on the social care system more generally.
I think we would all agree that this is an appropriate opportunity to thank, and indeed to pay tribute to, our public services workers, who are under enormous pressure at the moment, as we battle with the impact of covid-19. One of my big concerns as we deal with this crisis is that we run the risk of overlooking the needs of special populations within our society. That point was made by the hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) earlier. A great many people rely on our social care system and, understandably, they are very worried at the moment.
If we put ourselves in the shoes of someone who depends on visits by carers each day just to carry out our basic daily functions, we can imagine the anxiety felt. I know that organisations in Glasgow East are already scaling back some of their activities, and this will inevitably lead to increased isolation that will only serve to deepen their concerns. I very much endorse the comments made by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), about PPE. For my own part, as a constituency MP, I am trying to co-ordinate and engage with community organisations and stakeholders to ensure that these issues are addressed and that problems of gaps in service are quickly addressed.
I am aware that today’s debate focuses specifically on local government and social care. Although that is devolved, I thought it would be helpful to outline briefly the situation north of the border. The Scottish Government are allocating resources over and above Barnett consequentials to support frontline spending on healthcare in Scotland, and they will be providing all the support that local authorities need in the coming months, as we face unprecedented demand. Although not necessarily to repeat what the UK Government are saying, we certainly endorse “whatever it takes” in that regard. We are increasing our package of investment in social care and integration by 14% to £811 million in the 2020-21 budget to ensure that health and social care services are fully joined up for patients and to ensure that the actions taken by local authorities have the desired effect of reducing demand.
There are some really good models across the country that I want to draw to the attention of the House ever so briefly. East Lothian health and social care partnership has put in place a short-term assessment and rehabilitation team to reduce delays. Along with other measures, this led to a 44% reduction in bed days lost between 2012-13 and 2018-19. Likewise, Inverclyde has introduced a “home first” approach to ensure that returning home is the first option in the majority of discharge situations. That model saw an 82% reduction in bed days lost between 2012-13 and 2018-19. In spring 2016, Aberdeenshire established virtual community wards as an alternative to hospital-based care, with 93% of GP practices participating, and it was estimated that 1,640 hospital admissions had been avoided.
It is therefore possible to do many innovative things to meet the challenges of social care, but the fact is that we are all living longer and we are going to have major workforce issues in social care, some of which have been discussed today. In the future, it would certainly be beneficial to have a UK Government who were more willing to listen to policy suggestions from the Opposition side of the House. If there is one thing that the current crisis has shown, it is that cross-party working is essential to tackle major problems. I hope that is a lesson we have all learned and that we will learn over the coming weeks, particularly as we emerge from the other side of the coronavirus outbreak.
I want to turn to local government and our support for statutory services. The Scottish budget for 2020-21 has increased revenue funding for local government, and the SNP has empowered local authorities to raise additional income if they wish. Additional revenue funding, taken together with potential council tax income, means that councils have the potential to access another £724 million of revenue funding in 2020-21. Throughout the coming weeks and months, it will also be vital to reassess our social care systems right across the UK to ensure that they are properly resourced to deal with the mounting and certainly unprecedented crisis.
Whether in social care or local government, in Scotland we are certainly meeting the challenges of the day with a focus on protecting budgets and supporting the most vulnerable in society. Although very uncertain, we will certainly rise to face the challenges of tomorrow in the weeks ahead.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
These are unprecedented times. One thing that comes through quite clearly for me is community spirit. It was illustrated by my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart), and will be the thread that runs through my remarks, and probably through everybody else’s remarks as well.
I must draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as I am a councillor. I say that these are unprecedented times, but in local government we have had unprecedented times for quite some time. I remember back in the late noughties, we had the Barnet Council graph of doom. I do not know whether any fellow local government finance aficionados remember this, but it is the point at which the cost of adult social care rises and the amount of central Government grant goes down—it is the point on the graph at which those two things intercept. We are well past that now, so local government is used to reacting to changing financial circumstances and filling that gap with either locally raised revenue through taxation or locally raised revenue through commercial ventures.
The hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) mentioned the powers used by local government in Luton relating to commercial activities around the airport —[Interruption.] They have an airport, what can I say? The point here, of course, is that there are many ways of skinning a cat, and local government has had to face adverse circumstances in the past, and I am sure that our friends in local government will rise to this challenge as it stands today.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)
Is it not the case that this is the kind of situation where it is not just about local government? This is one of those rare occasions—the first time in my lifetime—where it is not sufficient for the community to dial 999 and leave it to local government or the emergency services. We, the people, will be on the frontline, directed and co-ordinated by district councils, or county councils, as in my constituency of Broadland. It is our opportunity to stand up and be counted to protect those who have to be shielded—the most vulnerable in our society including the elderly and those with underlying medical conditions—and that is both a wonderful opportunity for us to demonstrate our cohesiveness as a society and also our fundamental duty to look after those less fortunate than ourselves.
Ben Everitt
I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. The job of local government is on the frontline. Any job of a public servant such as ourselves, or councillors or council officers, is to look after the most vulnerable in society. If we do not do that, we are not a society.
Speaking of the most vulnerable, in Milton Keynes, we have a persistent problem of homelessness, which possibly provides one of the best examples of partnerships between local government and the voluntary sector. I have been very fortunate to visit many charities in Milton Keynes since being elected to represent Milton Keynes North. We have a winter night shelter, the YMCA, the Salvation Army and, of course, the Bus Shelter, which is run by volunteers, with a full-time on-site manager. It takes street homeless people off the streets. They get a bed for the night in Robbie Williams’ old tour bus, which seats, I think, 18, but it normally holds eight clients. It was wonderful to meet the clients, to see how they access the service and how the service helps them get their lives back on track and into work. Milton Keynes has received over £2 million of central Government funding for homelessness and rough sleeping since Christmas, which is incredibly welcome, because this is a critical time to support those who are on the street. That is a good example of how the voluntary sector, charity sector and local government can come together to solve a problem.
David Simmonds
Does my hon. Friend agree that that is a clear illustration of why we need to have the maximum possible flexibility for local authorities in deploying these resources at a local level? Those examples of creativity and innovation are replicated by local authorities across the country, but local circumstances vary enormously. Does he agree that we must encourage the Minister to take the view that the more flexibility and less bureaucracy there is for local authorities in using that money effectively at a local level, the more value we will extract from it in delivering for our residents?
Ben Everitt
Again, I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. I am sure that the Minister for Local Government, who is sitting on the Treasury Bench listening avidly to the pleas of councillors for more flexibility in the way that local government spend their finances, will heed that call.
Knife crime is a new problem for Milton Keynes, and it is incredibly worrying, but it is another example of where the public sector can work in partnership with communities and the voluntary sector. The police are on the frontline of knife crime, and I am pleased that they have extra money, officers, kit and powers, all of which are focused in Milton Keynes on solving the issue of knife crime. The extra money is incredibly welcome, and I will come back to that. There will be an extra 187 officers for Thames Valley, of which 36 will be in Milton Keynes. In terms of the extra kit, it really helps when the police know that they have a Taser to use.
There are also extra powers for the police. Parents say—again, this relates to the intersection between the public sector and the community—that, when the police use section 60 powers, it gives them confidence to know that an area is being policed. It also has a deterrent effect for young people who might think about going out with a knife.
It is through the extra money that there is an intersection with the public sector. Diversionary activities through boxing clubs, interventions in schools or projects such as the knife angel are incredibly good for bringing communities together. There is a demand management issue. There is also a data challenge, to enable the public sector, voluntary sector and charity sector to work together on a data-led response to a situation.
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
I would like to start by commending the work that our local councils are doing in response to the coronavirus pandemic. Faced with an unprecedented set of challenges across social care, education, children’s services, housing and homelessness, they are providing access to advice and support for many people who are distressed, worried and facing hardship as a result of the public health and economic calamity we are seeing, while sustaining day-to-day services such as bin collections, parks and libraries. Our councils are doing that in the context of 10 years of unprecedented cuts to their budgets and a total absence of coherent strategy for local government from central Government.
The Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee observed during the last Parliament that there has not been any assessment from central Government of the responsibilities of local government across its statutory and non-statutory functions and no objective assessment of the resources needed to fulfil the task at hand. Instead, our councils have been cut to the bone. Both my councils have lost more than 60% of the funding they received from central Government in grant. They have been forced to raise council tax, which is regressive and hits the poorest residents hardest, while demands on their core statutory services, adult social care and children’s services have continued to increase, and the need for housing and homelessness services has spiralled as a direct consequence of the welfare policies of a decade of Tory Governments.
In that context, the shift to reliance on business rates is of grave concern. Business rates have been the Government’s only game in town for local government, and we now face an economic calamity that may result in business rates revenue simply draining away. It is imperative that the Government come forward with proposals for how councils will be supported to sustain services in the context of the risk of business rates collapsing. Our councils are stepping up to play their part in multiple different ways, as the closeness and proximity of their relationship to communities make them uniquely placed to do so, but there is a lack of resilience across all our public services. After the last decade, that is completely predictable and therefore completely inexcusable.
I turn to a couple of areas of public services that are responding to the crisis as they relate to our councils, the first of which is social care. Our social care system was in crisis before the coronavirus pandemic struck. About 1 million people eligible for social care are not receiving any, and the sector needs about £3.5 billion of additional funding just to meet additional needs. Across the country, councils of all political persuasions are struggling to deliver the social care services that local residents need, and private contractors continue to hand contracts back to councils.
Now, social care workers are at the frontline of the response to covid-19, caring for some of the most vulnerable residents and working hard to take on additional caseloads as hospitals work urgently to discharge people to free up bed space needed for the pandemic, yet many social care workers are paid the minimum wage and remain on zero-hours contracts.
Last week, 100 parliamentarians from both Houses and many political parties joined me in writing to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to ask that social care workers be placed on the same footing as NHS workers with regard to sick pay during the coronavirus pandemic. NHS workers and contractors have been guaranteed full pay if they are ill or need to self-isolate, but no such commitment has been made to social care workers. It is vital that low-paid workers, whose jobs bring them into contact with many of the people most vulnerable to covid-19, are not forced to make an impossible choice between taking action to protect the safety of those in their care or putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their family’s head.
I have not received a response to my letter and, despite raising the issue in the Chamber, there has been no indication from the Government that they understand the urgency of the issue or that any action is being taken. Lives will be lost if low-paid, workers with precarious jobs are forced to make impossible choices. I hope that in responding to the debate, the Minister will provide a definitive commitment to social care workers in response to covid-19.
Dame Diana Johnson
My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. On that point if, as seems likely, schools in England are going to close in the next few days, childcare will need to be provided to allow key workers who have been identified in the NHS to carry on working, perhaps through skeleton schools. Should that also be used for key workers who provide social care in local authorities, so that their children are part of any provision that is made nationally?
Helen Hayes
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Social care workers, together with healthcare workers, are at the frontline of the crisis. They must be offered every support possible to enable them to keep working throughout.
More widely, there are grave concerns about the extra capacity that will be needed in the social care sector in response to the crisis. Earlier this week, I visited Turney School in my constituency, an outstanding school for children with special educational needs aged four to 19. Of the more than 130 children at Turney School, 90% are eligible for free school meals, many have multiple and complex needs, and most have a diagnosis of autism. If, as we hear, schools across the country are likely to close shortly, there will be an urgent and immediate need for additional social care support for Turney pupils and many thousands of children with special needs across the country.
Schools such as Turney fulfil not just an educational role, but a social, emotional and respite role for children and their families. Many Turney families live in overcrowded, poor-quality accommodation. Self-isolation in such circumstances will be intolerable and the need for social care support will be critical. The same is true for all children in receipt of free school meals and those who are potentially at risk at home. The social care sector will need to step up to meet the needs of our most vulnerable children.
Finally, in relation to social care, I raise the issue of access to personal protective equipment. Vulnerable people with covid-19 will still need support with personal care, and no one should be made to put their own health at risk in the course of doing their job. I welcome the Minister’s comments on PPE, but will he set out the detailed plans to ensure that all social care workers, whatever setting they are in and whoever their employer is, will have access to PPE? There is serious concern about the impact of the crisis on autistic people and people with learning disabilities, more than 2,000 of whom are still trapped in inappropriate hospital accommodation. As hospitals restrict visitor access, and as the emergency legislation contains provisions to short cut detention under the Mental Health Act 1983, what steps are the Government taking to uphold the human rights of autistic people and people with learning disabilities and to ensure that community services being stretched even further do not result in more people reaching crisis point and being detained in hospital?
The second area of council services I want to raise today is housing and the homelessness service. Homelessness and housing need have risen dramatically during the past decade of Tory austerity. A failure to fund the building of new, genuinely affordable social housing or regulate private renting, combined with cuts to welfare and the disgraceful five-week universal credit wait have driven up homelessness.
I was proud during the last Parliament to be a co-sponsor of the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017, and a recent report by Crisis concludes that the new legislation has been making a difference, but London Councils has made it clear that the level of funding provided by the Government was far from adequate, estimating that the amount that London Councils alone needed to implement the Homelessness Reduction Act was similar to the total national funding the Government made available.
Now we face two additional challenges: the first is the vulnerability of rough sleepers to coronavirus and the impossibility of self-isolating when someone is on the streets. There has been no Government response on this issue. Will the Minister say what arrangements are being made to contain the spread of covid-19 among rough sleepers? Will funding be made available for emergency accommodation that is suitable for self-isolation in addition to the funding that has already been made available to tackle the endemic problem of homelessness, which existed prior to this pandemic?
Secondly, the economic crisis that threatens to engulf our country has the potential to increase homelessness further. The lack of attention to the predicament of private renters has been disgraceful, but without that thousands of people will find their homes at risk. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that no one will lose their home as a consequence of coronavirus?
Our councils are now being asked to administer large amounts of the financial support that the Government are providing in response to this crisis, yet they have not been provided with any guidance, and they are not being supported with additional capacity. Local authorities that have been cut to the bone might find additional financial administration very challenging, so will the Minister set out what support is being provided to councils to ensure that they are able to administer hardship funds and business support without delay and without impacting on other services?
Across many areas of responsibility, local government is at the frontline of this unprecedented public health and economic crisis. It is the job of our councils to ensure that the burdens of the disease do not fall on the poorest and most vulnerable in our communities. It is the job of central Government to ensure that they are properly funded, equipped and supported to do so.
Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)
I thank the Opposition for introducing this important debate, and the Minister for some very helpful information that he gave in his response.
Let me put on record my appreciation of the efforts of the ministerial team. This is an enormous crisis for everybody, but I want to congratulate them for the speed with which they are responding in ways large and small. Some of the information we have just heard is very helpful in small ways for councils, particularly as regards making it easier for councils to meet to do their business more flexibly given the crisis. That will be very welcome at local authority level.
I pay tribute to the spirit of the Opposition Front Benchers as well. It is absolutely tremendous to see how this House is coming together to address these issues. I want quickly to address two points. The first, which has been raised by other Members, is the amazing response of our communities to this crisis and to the impending demand for support from the elderly, in particular—it is absolutely wonderful to see.
I have some anxiety about how we will co-ordinate that effort in a way that does not stifle it. I was a community worker in north Kensington at the time of the Grenfell disaster. I saw a huge uprising and upsurge of voluntary support and effort—an outpouring of love and resources from the community—but there was a huge challenge of co-ordination. We are going to have to get that balance right in all our communities in the coming months. Today, I was speaking to council workers in my local authority of Wiltshire, where there is a good balance. Council staff are not attempting directly to co-ordinate the efforts of the volunteers and local community groups that are rising up. They are not trying to tell them what to do or how to do it. What they are doing is providing a hub for information exchange, and providing support when gaps do emerge.
David Linden
That has been one of my concerns throughout this process. Lots of organisations in my constituency are absolutely up for the challenge, but we need to ensure that there is no duplication, particularly when it comes to things such as food security. Does the hon. Member agree that although it is not necessarily for local authorities to do that co-ordination, it would be good if helpful tips and ideas were disseminated throughout the UK so that we avoided the issue of duplication?
Danny Kruger
I entirely agree. There is a huge role for social media in the sort of organic, spontaneous co-ordination that we are seeing, but there is also a role for the public sector, particularly local authorities. It would be very helpful for the public to hear a clear communication from the Government that we entirely support and encourage this sort of voluntary effort, but that anybody who wants to try to match volunteers with households and so on needs to plug into local government in parishes and towns, particularly in rural areas such as the one with which I am concerned.
Secondly, on local authorities’ lost income, I hear the points that have been made very powerfully about the additional burdens that will be placed on local authorities as a result of the demand that we are going to see, but councils are also going to endure lost income as a result of this crisis. In Wiltshire, we are worrying about up to £25 million-worth of income that is normally received through all sorts of activities such as leisure services, parking, council tax and so on. We are stepping in to support businesses with lost revenues, but we need to think about how to do that for councils as well—not just helping them to meet the additional demand for services, but compensating them for their losses.
Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
People are understandably very worried at this time of crisis. I am afraid that the Government still need to step up and provide the certainty that the public deserve. It is vital and urgent that they demonstrate that they are meeting all the challenges head on, not least because it is overwhelmingly clear that years of cuts and a failure to invest in services mean that we are extremely ill prepared for dealing with this type of large-scale health risk to our community.
The truth is that the Conservatives have let us down, and they have let down my constituents, who have been disproportionately disadvantaged by austerity. For example, spending on youth services has been slashed by 70% since 2010, with a real-terms cut of £880 million. Locally in my borough, spending on young people fell by a whopping 76.9% between 2011 and 2018. As a result, many people now believe that young people’s lives could be worse than their own generation’s, and some argue that children and young people in Britain are among the unhappiest, unhealthiest, poorest and least educated in the developed world. Yet, it is widely observed that soaring inequality fosters resentment and division. In fact, the all-party parliamentary group on knife crime explicitly linked knife crime to council cuts. Nothing in the Budget last week will solve the crisis facing young people’s futures.
Then there is the education crisis. Schools and early intervention services have faced significant cuts in particular, and parents of children with additional needs are struggling to have their children’s learning needs met. Only a few weeks ago, it was a privilege and an honour for me to stand with local special educational needs and disabilities campaigners outside Downing Street to present an invoice for £12 million—Tower Hamlets Council’s projected SEND budget overspend by 2022.
Parents, families and communities work very hard to support our children, but we are let down time and again by the system that we are forced to struggle within. When things do go wrong in families and relationships, the support so often is not there. For example, the availability of specialist support for those who report domestic abuse varies enormously around the country. According to Women’s Aid, 10 domestic abuse victims are turned away from women’s refuges every day because of a lack of space. While it is good to see that the long-awaited Domestic Abuse Bill includes a new legal obligation on councils to provide secure refuges for victims, it is important that the necessary resources are provided alongside that responsibility. In my local council, the number of recorded incidents of domestic abuse is above average, and nothing in the Budget will address the crisis of violence against women or mean that every case of domestic abuse is taken seriously and each individual given access to the support they need.
Social care is also in crisis in this country. Before the coronavirus outbreak, 1.5 million people were not receiving the care they need. As Members will know and have raised today, the majority of those who receive social care are older, disabled and vulnerable people—the very people who are most at risk from the coronavirus. It is still very unclear from the Government statements so far what additional support is being provided. In the meantime, providers and local authorities are already stretched to breaking point in many areas, so we need to know now how much additional support is being provided specifically for social care.
To be frank, I am truly shocked and surprised that those in the Conservative party still attempt to justify the cruel strategy of austerity, which has decimated local government funding over the past decade, forcing working-class people to pay for a financial crisis they did not cause. It is a shameful indictment of any economy that so many people are trapped in low-paid, insecure work and invariably failed by the social security regime. It is shameful that earlier this year, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that the proportion of people in work who live in poverty went up for the third consecutive year to a record high. It is shameful that, according to End Child Poverty, at 58.5% my constituency of Poplar and Limehouse has the highest child poverty rate in the entire country.
Yesterday, the former Secretary of State for Health and Social Care admitted that the Government’s harsh and uncaring policies have caused suffering and austerity, whose onslaught has been brutal. Cuts equal crisis, and by that I mean that every cut and every closure has had a real and serious human cost. As we speak, the people of my constituency understand the gravity of the situation they are faced with and are trying to support each other the best they can, as they always have done. Right now, public sector workers, who are the backbone of our communities, are working in the most extreme of situations to provide vital services. This is not a time for half-measures or indecision, but for those in power to step up and deliver the scale of intervention, leadership and co-ordination required to secure the funding and operation of local public services. That cannot be deferred to tomorrow, because people are falling ill and are in need today.
David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
I am sad to report to the House that, having spent 22 years as a member of a local authority and having been elected as a Member of Parliament, I have gone down in the index of public trust. When it comes to politicians and Members of Parliament, we are fortunate that we still sit above lawyers and estate agents, but local government is very much trusted by the people of this country. That is why what the Minister and the Government have done, not only in their approach to the coronavirus outbreak but to the bigger strategic challenge of how we properly resource our local services for the coming years, is very important.
One of the long-standing frustrations of my time in local government is that Parliament—it has the opportunity to be incredibly strategic on behalf of our country and to think about what it wants to achieve for the nation in many of these big-picture issues, such as housing, healthcare, social care and education—has sometimes been drawn into detailed debates about very specific issues, when we would achieve so much more by allowing our locally elected colleagues to demonstrate the leadership that they are demonstrating in response to this crisis. They need to have those resources to accept from this House the challenge to deliver against those ambitions and then to be left to get on with it.
Local resilience forums, which the Minister referred to on a number of occasions in his speech, are to me a very good example of exactly that kind of leadership. My experience as a councillor is in the London Borough of Hillingdon, although my constituency straddles two London local authorities. Going back to 2001, with 9/11 we suddenly had to deal with thousands of stranded travellers who had no means of getting back to their homes. They needed to be found somewhere to stay, to be fed and, in many cases, to be provided with medical care, communications and support. We saw local organisations––not just the local authority, but schools and the military––rallying around, co-ordinated by the local authority, to provide that crucial support.
In the decade since, we have had to deal with significant outbreaks of very serious illnesses, including severe acute respiratory syndrome, middle east respiratory syndrome, H5N1 and swine flu, from which a young girl in my local area sadly passed away. The local authority then had to step in to manage those communications, in order to reassure that community and make sure that the support was in place so that a school or community that was grieving could deal with the situation. It is impossible to do that directly from this House, which is why the Government have rightly taken the view that they will look at the strategic question of providing an appropriate level of resources and then enable those people in their local communities to route that money directly to where it makes the most difference.
My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Ben Everitt) referred to the provision of a bus to make emergency accommodation available for homeless people. Many of us have local authorities that have contracts with local voluntary organisations, for example, the YMCA, as in the case of my local authority, to provide that kind of emergency accommodation. In other parts of the country, such accommodation may be provided directly by the local authority itself. It is crucial, therefore, that the theme that runs throughout all this is the ability of local authorities and local resilience forums to deploy the money that is rightly coming from this Government in the most flexible way possible to meet those local challenges.
Lessons could be learned on that, and I am cognisant of what Opposition Members have said about the challenges associated with special educational needs and disabilities, and the educational provision for people in that situation. It is clear that the more local flexibility there is, the easier it is for those communities to rise to the challenge of meeting the needs of those individuals. The more we seek to control that from the centre, the less satisfied many of our residents and voters will be with the outcomes they are seeing. Given the amazing range of provision that we see—I am cognisant of the remarks about what was happening on youth services—we have fantastic voluntary organisations, which are providing brilliant opportunities to young people. A decade or two ago, their lives would perhaps have been lived in a youth club, but they are now being lived online, on a smartphone, where they talk to their friends in the privacy of their bedrooms. So something different is required in the modern world, and that is another example of where the leadership of local authorities, which know their communities, can deploy those resources, albeit more limited than they might have been historically, in the most effective way.
I wish to make a couple of specific observations about particular strengths of the Government’s response. The first relates to the announcements that have been made to support nurseries and early years providers. I should declare an interest: as a parent of two young children, I am a user of my local council-run nursery. There are many people, some employed in our public services and others who are going about their daily business who are dependent on the existence of those services to ensure that they can live their lives. Such services provide an opportunity for their children and the children who may not come from prosperous backgrounds to gain the best possible start in life. So I am pleased with the commitment that the Government have given to ensure that, even if children are having to step back from those places because of the immediate prevailing situation, funding will still find its way, and so when this moment of emergency passes families can find that those services and the opportunities for the youngest children are still there. That is an extremely wise move, and the more we can send that message to proprietors and managers of nurseries and parents whose children use them, the better.
The second thing I wish to refer to is the distribution of personal protective equipment. Because of my personal connections with the national health service and from what I hear as a local councillor, I know that there is, understandably, a high degree of anxiety among many of those staff who, unlike us in this Chamber, will be sent out to people who are known to be suffering from the coronavirus in order to provide direct, hands-on personal care. They are worried about whether they will be able to access the quality and standard of equipment that will be necessary to keep them safe. The announcement by the Minister that the distribution from national stocks of those products to those frontline workers is going to be absolutely crucial once again in providing that degree of reassurance.
That is not reassurance to those in the markets who are wondering which moves to make when they are trading their shares, and it is not reassurance to the international community; it is reassurance to people who are absolutely at the frontline of responding in a very direct and very human way to this crisis. Again, the more we can get out the message the better that, as well as a sum that is so mind-bogglingly large—over £300 billion—that it is hard to grasp, this House is thinking about the basics of face masks and gloves and aprons that people need to make sure that they are safe when they are doing an essential job, to bring this country together and to keep our people safe.
Matt Western
On that point, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it would be useful to understand from Government just how they are ramping up the production and supply of PPE, or ventilators or testing kits, so we understand where the base was and where we might be in two weeks’ time?
David Simmonds
The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. I have been very much reassured by what I have heard from Ministers over a number of days about the initiatives that are taking place to ensure that ventilators, for example, and other equipment are available. One of the things I am particularly aware of because of my local government experience and knowledge of what local resilience forums do is that there are long-standing plans in place, backed up by stockpiles of various different types of equipment that may be required. It is welcome that the Minister has been very clear today that, based on need and local requirements, the distribution of that is going to begin, particularly for the volunteer groups that many colleagues have referred to, with people who are not familiar with some of the challenges and risks that may be involved in treating patients with serious illnesses; the knowledge that they can access good quality personal protective equipment supplied through central Government and by their local authority, is going to be absolutely crucial.
In conclusion, I would simply like to make the following point. We have seen examples up and down the land of local authorities consistently on a cross-party basis—I can think of examples from the response of Manchester to the Arena bombing to those of local authorities across the country to the refugee crisis in Europe—where our local government colleagues have demonstrated very capably that they will rise to any challenge which this House sets. It is most welcome that Ministers have been clear that they will provide the financial resources that are central to the delivery of that, and I trust that all hon. Members will be providing a similar degree of cross-party moral support to our colleagues in local government that at this time of national challenge, we need to work together and rise to it together.
Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)
This is a very important debate at a very important time, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) for her introduction in opening it. I also thank the Minister for the spirit in which he conducted the response. For Members across the House, a lot is going on at the moment: tensions are heightened and people are fearful in our communities, and we have all received an increasing volume of correspondence from people desperate to find out what happens next, what this means, and how they can get help and support. It is telling therefore that so many Members have stayed for this debate just to put on record our appreciation for the time given to this important issue.
In particular, I want to reference the Select Committee—and my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) in particular, previously a distinguished member of it—for the work it has done on a number of reviews. On almost every issue and in every policy area, a consistent theme came out, which was that the Government did not have a grasp of the scale of the impact of the decisions they were making on the communities affected by those decisions. Whether it was housing, planning, local government finance, adult social care, children’s services or homelessness—you name it—every review had that strand going right through it.
It is absolutely right to point out that a decade of cuts has taken its toll. Critically—and let us be honest, this issue has transcended different Governments—the absence of a proper assessment of the responsibilities placed on councils, which would then allow an informed assessment of the cost of delivering those responsibilities, is a glaring omission that we need to put right. It is staggering that we are carrying out a fair funding review without having reviewing the responsibilities. That cannot be a real, balanced assessment of the costs of view of delivering services.
Of course, the debate naturally goes on to social care workers and the genuine concern about the type of protection that they will get. This is a constant frustration. We all love the NHS: it is part of who we are as a nation. The NHS gives us help when we need it most, when we are at our most desperate; it brings new life into the world, and we all celebrate that; and it supports us when our loved ones are reaching the end of their time, and right in the middle of that experience, too. It is a frustration for local government, though, that social care is always placed in second or even third place behind the NHS. I just do not understand it: surely if someone is giving care in a hospital environment, they have the same value as if they were giving care in somebody’s home environment. The skill and compassion that person needs, along with their dedication to public service, are critical requirements.
Let us look at what it feels like to be an adult social care worker. First, they are often not treated with respect by the person employing them. We have only recently made progress on 15-minute visits, pay for travel time, not deducting uniform costs and all those types of issues, but even now many are paid the minimum wage or just above it, and that is not even enough to live on. It starts at the beginning: we say that we value care as an industry because it is so important to our society, but the apprenticeship levy rate for care is the lowest possible rate that can be paid for that skill and training provision, at £3,000 a year. A fencing installer who takes on an apprentice can attract £12,000 a year, but that adult social care worker on an apprenticeship attracts only £3,000 a year. There is a real question mark about how we value care as a career. Let us be honest: we have got away with it for too long. As a society and as a nation, we are not paying people a fair wage for their responsibilities and the importance of the job that they do. That just has to change. It will have a price tag, but we should really value the work that they do.
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
In the NHS and social care so many of these employees are taken for granted. Their skills in dealing with people—patients, clients, or whatever we call them—is taken for granted. The sector is to a large extent running on the good will of its employees.
Jim McMahon
That is absolutely the case, but it is also running on high levels of vacancies—there are 120,000 vacancies in adult social care. We are highly vulnerable to staff in that industry becoming ill and going into self-isolation, which is why the question of the protection and support they are given becomes so important. It is absolutely about making sure that, first and foremost, they are considered in the same way as hospital staff. Making sure that they get the proper protective equipment that they need is critical, not just to protect the patients who are being dealt with and the receivers of adult social care, but for the individuals who are placing themselves in a very risky situation, going into people’s homes without knowing who that person has been in contact with, but doing it anyway because they believe in the care they are offering.
My hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) made a really important point that went beyond adult social care: the fabric of our society has changed as a result of the cuts. The 70% reduction in youth services has almost certainly had an impact on knife crime, on county lines, and on whether people feel they have a stake in the future.
Helen Hayes
My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that in this time of crisis central Government support for local government is urgently needed in respect of protection of our young people, who may be even more vulnerable to violence as a consequence of the lack of support systems, of activities and of the people who are normally are responsible for keeping them safe day-to-day?
Jim McMahon
That is absolutely true, and it is also true that many lives are lost, in terms of potential, through the criminalisation of young people who are effectively groomed into criminality by those in positions of power or authority in the community who attract them in and entice them. We need to do far more to make clear to young people across the country that there is a real alternative when it comes to leading a fulfilled life. Until then, we will never break the cycle of young people being caught in crime unnecessarily.
This goes right to the heart of the “cradle to the grave” approach to public service. We cannot ignore the impact on Sure Start centres, which were about investing in young people and giving them a taste of what opportunity was from the time when they were young and receiving that type of care. Taking it away has had a massive impact, and that is before we get on to primary school budgets and special educational needs. Young people are just not receiving the tailored support that they need.
However, today is also about thanking councils for the work that they do. Regardless of party affiliation, I want to place on record our thanks for the work that councillors do. They come into public service from their community because they really want to make a difference. Hearing from some of the councillors and ex-councillors who are now in this place about the passion and connection that they still feel, as I do, is very inspiring. We must also thank our council officers.
After 10 years of austerity, councils have experienced a very stressful period in trying to reconcile delivering balanced budgets to remain within the law with managing the huge demand for adult social care, children’s services and services for the homeless. People believe they pay council tax for the very neighbourhood services that are being taken away because councils cannot afford to make ends meet and provide those services. Councils are placed in a horrible position. They are trying to keep their heads above water, and providing targeted support for people who really need it, but at the same time the public are holding them to account for the real cuts that have been made locally. I do not think that that is a fair burden for central Government to place on local government.
That brings me to council tax, which is a hugely regressive tax. It has increased by a third, and what was hidden in the Budget papers was, within the lifetime of that Budget, an £8 billion increase in council tax income for the Treasury. The Government are not coming to the table and giving councils sufficient funds to deal with the demands of adult social care and children’s services in particular. What they are saying is “It is the survival of the fittest. If you can raise money through council tax or business rate retention, good luck, but if you cannot, I am afraid that you can no longer rely on central Government to step in and provide that partnership solution.”
That is just not a fair way of doing things. How can it be right that today, in England—and we have an English problem, because of the nature of how the country is governed—adult social care and people’s ability to access the care that they need will soon be determined by the house values in their area in 1991? How can it be right that they will be based on historic industrial and commercial land values and the business rate take in that area, when the council has very little control over that base? With every revaluation, we see many regions being devalued, and London and the south-east increasing in value. That will be the model, the baseline, of public service funding in the future.
I mentioned the survival of the fittest, but the fittest are not that fit. Local government still faces a £6 billion funding gap between now and 2025. There will still be people in the most affluent parts of the country who are living in absolute destitution and not getting the support that they need because councils do not have the necessary funds.
Matt Western
My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Having been a councillor myself, I can echo his comments. The difficulty for our local authorities is that in the absence of the central Government grant, they are having to be more inventive and creative in respect of how they bring in revenue streams. What we have found in the last couple of weeks and what is forecast is that certain revenue streams will be cut off, and councils will become more and more desperate to continue what few services they can maintain. When the car parking charges and the revenue streams for the local civic centre are not coming in, they will be under even more pressure than they were before. Does he agree that the local authorities need to understand urgently how the £500 million that the Chancellor mentioned will be distributed—and distributed fairly?
Jim McMahon
I think that is right. When councils have to look elsewhere for funding, a risk naturally comes with that. The National Audit Office produced a report on this and the Government share these concerns. The Public Works Loan Board interest rate was doubled overnight by the Government, because they are concerned about the exposure that councils face in buying assets as investments. The NAO expressed the same concern. In a two-year period, councils have been buying investment portfolio assets of £6 billion. Why? Because they are desperate to see income from other places, but this is office accommodation and in retail, sometimes not even in the area that the council is responsible for. The Government response is to double the Public Works Loan Board rate instead of addressing the fundamental reason why councils have to look elsewhere for funding, which feels illogical. We have to make sure that the base funding for councils is absolutely where it needs to be.
We are coming to the greatest test of local government, public service and society that any of us have seen in our lifetime. It will test us all. It will test the fabric of society and test public services to breaking point, at a time when they are built on extremely weak foundations. I am genuinely fearful for how we can continue this in a sustained period. For a short time, they will make it work. They will roll their sleeves up and work together. They will create a partnership at a local level and find a way through it, but the Government know full well that this is not a crisis that will last weeks or even months. A sustained response will be required and the Government will have to make sure that they give local government the funding that they need to provide the critical response. We also need to manage public expectation.
Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)
Is my hon. Friend aware that only today, local government has received a directive from central Government to provide street sleepers—homeless people on the streets—with self-contained accommodation? Great idea, but where are they going to find it?
Jim McMahon
It is also the case, as I hope most Members know, that solving homelessness is not just about providing a roof. That is a critical part of it, but it is about how the ecosystem of public service works to make sure that the alcohol and drug addiction services, mental health support and physical health support are in place. We need to make sure that this is not just about giving someone a set of keys for a property—by the way, if that was possible, why did we not do it before this crisis? —but making sure that the wider support is in place.
The Government need to be honest about the scale of the challenge that public services will face. I still believe that at this moment, the public of this country do not understand the scale of what may face us all and particularly the impact that it will have on public services, and not just for the workforce. We need to remember, when we talk about public services and the community over here, that public servants are the community. They live and work in the communities where we all do. If people are off work because they have to self-isolate, are ill or have caring responsibilities, that will have a direct impact on the local government workforce. Many will have partners working in the private sector, as well as the public sector, and they may well face redundancies and hours being cut in the family. They will go through the same financial stresses and strains, and there will be an impact on family life in the same way. The Government need to be honest about what that means for day-to-day public services, and what the public can expect when we really have to pull through to make sure that we can keep the most urgent critical care going in this country.
The Chancellor said that money will be made available, but we see a drip feed of those announcements in a way that is not helpful for local government. The public health settlement for next year was released only yesterday, 14 days before the end of the financial year. Local councils were not even able to plan ahead about what that meant. We cannot have that when it comes to a crisis of this scale.
I have always believed that our local government is the first line of defence and the frontline in delivering public services. I have always believed that they are the glue that holds our community together, that they are the leaders of place and that they can stir us to a better future. We have seen that in the way that they bring communities together, invest in their local economies and deliver decent public services. What we will demand of those people in the coming weeks and months will test us all, and it will test their resolve. It will not be good enough just to say, “Thank you for all that you do,” without addressing the fact that, for 10 years, they have had to shoulder a disproportionate burden of austerity. Surely, now is the time to say to those people, “We will right the wrong of making you take on that burden of austerity. You were not the bankers, you did not create the financial crisis, and it was wrong to place you in a position where you had to bear a disproportionate burden.” We need to put that right today.
We need not just money for the current crisis but sustained funding so we can rebuild public services, invest in our frontline and do more than just give those people one word. By the time we get through this, they will not be just the frontline that we respect; they will be seen for the heroes that they are.
The Minister for Housing (Christopher Pincher)
May I first congratulate and thank hon. Members across the House for their valuable and important contributions to the debate? They have been largely co-operative and collaborative at a time of extraordinary emergency for our country.
I am sorry that I was not here at the beginning of the debate to hear the opening remarks of the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) and the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall); like the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Jim McMahon), I was in a Westminster Hall debate discussing the Greater Manchester spatial framework. It is a great pleasure to have the chance to close the debate.
I join my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State in reiterating the Government’s unwavering support for local authorities across the country in responding to the covid-19 emergency. Like other right hon. and hon. Members, I pay particular tribute to frontline staff and other council officers for their tireless efforts in reassuring residents, protecting the elderly and most vulnerable, and helping keep the public safe. Let me assure the House that the Government will continue to work hand in hand with local partners, including councils and local resilience forums, to assist in this vital work and ensure that communities receive the support and help they need during this unprecedented and challenging time.
Hon. Members across the House described powerfully the incredible work that their local communities and local public services are doing. Let me say, on behalf of the Prime Minister and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, how grateful we are for all the tireless work that people are already doing. I am particularly conscious of the vital contribution of local voluntary organisations, and I pay particular tribute to them, as other Members did. I was struck by what my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Ben Everitt) had to say about the support the local volunteer organisation The Bus Shelter is providing.
Our responsibility in Government is to knit that work together into a national programme to ensure that all communities and all vulnerable people, wherever they may be, have access to the right support at the right time, and we will do that. We will take every step necessary to support local communities, local authorities, all public services and the myriad volunteers who are coming forward to help, as my hon. Friends the Members for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) and for Devizes (Danny Kruger) made clear.
We know councils need assurance from the Government that they will have the funding they need to play their crucial role in the coronavirus response, especially in providing social care services to those in greatest need, as a number of Members on both sides of the House have said. As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has made clear, we will do whatever it takes—whatever it takes—to respond effectively. That includes making sure public services, including vital council services, have the money they need to respond. The Chancellor announced last week that £5 billion has been made available for the NHS, and more money has been made available for other public services, such as the half a million pounds made available to local authorities, with more to come if necessary.
We are urgently agreeing a funding package for councils, and we will make further announcements as soon as possible.
Barbara Keeley
The Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government said earlier that the Government will make sure that, whatever social care and the NHS need, they will get it. Will the Minister for Housing repeat that? That is an important thing to say. It is not just the NHS that needs funding; social care needs it, too.
Christopher Pincher
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention. I will come on to talk about social care, but we will certainly be giving those who work in social care the help they need to contend with this crisis.
These measures, which follow on from the Budget and from the Chancellor’s announcement last night, amount to over £330 billion in financial support, which, if I may say gently, is more than just drip-feeding into the system; it is a significant amount of money. The Government are prepared to do whatever it takes to protect the economy, our NHS, our local services and our local authorities in weathering this storm.
Helen Hayes
Will the Minister specifically address the loss in core income that councils will experience if business rates revenue collapses? I know the Government have announced large-scale support, much of which will be channelled through local authorities to meet specific needs arising from the pandemic, but the threat to our councils is bigger than that—it is to their core budget. The Government have made councils reliant on business rates revenue in recent years, and it may now drain away from them.
Christopher Pincher
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her further intervention. I know and understand the point she is making, and we have already made funds available to local authorities. The Chancellor, in his Budget speech, made clear the support we want to give. He made further announcements yesterday and, if she is prepared to bear with the Government a little longer, I suspect further announcements will be made as the situation evolves.
As the Under-Secretary of State made clear in his opening statement, this funding is in addition to extending SSP and a range of other measures by the Department for Work and Pensions.
Jim McMahon
Local authority base budgets are based on an assessment of council tax collection rates. If people are made redundant or if they move on to statutory sick pay, they will clearly not be able to afford their rent, let alone their council tax. We expect councils to withhold any enforcement action, because that is the right, moral thing to do, but surely the Government will provide compensation to protect the base income of those councils, and surely they must now consider whether people should have the protection of a council tax holiday, too.
Christopher Pincher
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. As the Chancellor made clear, we will do whatever is necessary to stand behind our public services, our local authorities and our volunteers to get through this crisis. More announcements will be made in this fast-moving situation, so I ask him to bear with the Government in that regard.
As hon. Members will also be aware, yesterday, my Department announced £3.2 million in initial emergency funding to help rough sleepers or those at risk of rough sleeping to self-isolate to prevent the spread of this virus. The Under-Secretary of State, the homelessness Minister, made that point in his opening remarks; I just wanted to reiterate it to ensure that colleagues who have come into the Chamber more recently have heard it.
A number of Members from across the House raised the question of whether the Government have provided sufficient funding. The first point I would make—I have made it already—is that this situation is changing every day. The Government are responding at pace to the evolving challenges and working closely with the Local Government Association and other local authority representatives to understand the effects of covid-19 on the delivery of statutory services, including social care. The second point is to stress that the announcements that we have made so far, including those from the Chancellor last night, do not signal the end of the Government’s response; they signal its beginning. We stand ready to do more and we will go further as necessary.
A number of colleagues raised the question of our social care workforce, including those who care for the elderly and vulnerable in care homes and in their own homes. Building on our existing strong local relationships, the NHS and local authorities are working with care providers to make sure that people receive the specialised care and support they need during this outbreak. Councils will map out all care and support plans to prioritise people who are at the highest risk and will contact all registered providers in their local area to facilitate plans for mutual aid, and they will do this at pace.
Christopher Pincher
I will give way one more time, because I appreciate that the statement is to come.
Jess Phillips
I thank the Minister. This morning, in a conference call with the leader of Birmingham City Council, the biggest council in Europe, we discussed this exact thing. Currently in social care and across care homes in the city of Birmingham—I imagine it is the same everywhere—they simply do not have the personal protective equipment to do the job that they need to be doing. I was asked to raise that directly with the Government and press them on it, because people are being put in harm’s way.
Christopher Pincher
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that point. Let me reassure her. We understand the point about social care providers and PPE. I think 7 million—I quote from memory—face masks are being made available to careworkers. At least 300 masks will be provided to care homes or care home providers to ensure that this necessary and essential piece of kit is available to them. If for whatever reason the normal supplier is unable to provide the kit, the national supply disruption response number is a way for providers to find other suppliers or receive an emergency parachute drop of those masks. I should also say that, although we would ordinarily expect those sorts of workers to have things such as aprons and gloves, we will do whatever we can to ensure that whatever they need is available. We are working with local authorities and care providers to make sure that those PPE pieces of kit are available.
We have also asked GPs to look at the possibilities of offering digital appointments to provide advice and guidance to patients and potentially to their families. I am confident that we are making every effort to provide for those eventualities.
A number of Members raised the 2020-21 settlement. I hope that we have demonstrated clearly to all Members that we are doing everything possible to give local government the right support and the right resources to respond to this unprecedented crisis. Of course, local authorities have already been put on a strong footing by the outcome of the settlement for next year. The settlement, which I am pleased that the House supported just a few weeks ago, responds to the pressures that councils are facing by providing them with access to the largest increase in core spending power since 2015. CSP will rise from £46.2 billion to £49.1 billion in 2020-21. That is an estimated 4.4% real-terms increase—well above the rate of inflation. In 2020-21, the final settlement makes £1.5 billion of new funding available for adult and children’s social care. That will support local authorities to meet rising demand and recognises the vital role that social care plays in supporting the most vulnerable in our society.
In conclusion, the role of local government in delivering social care and other vital public services has never been more important than it is now and will be in the days and weeks ahead. Through our immediate actions in response to this crisis and the broader work this Government are doing to help local authorities, I am confident that we are giving councils everything they need to deliver the services upon which we and our communities rely. We remain steadfast in our commitment to do whatever it takes to help communities to beat covid-19, safe in the knowledge that, together, we will rise to these challenges. Together we must, and we will, succeed.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the statutory and broader local government responsibilities for public services, including social care.
Educational Settings
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement regarding changes to the operations of educational settings as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.
We are facing increasingly difficult challenges, and I would like to once again express my extraordinary gratitude to staff in all our schools, colleges, nurseries and universities who have been doing so much. I know that the situation has become increasingly challenging. I said before that if the science and the advice changed, such that keeping schools open would no longer be in the best interests of children and teachers, we would act. We are now at that stage.
The spike of the virus is increasing at a faster pace than anticipated, and it is crucial that we continue to consider the right measures to arrest this increase and relieve the pressure on the health system. The public health benefits of schools remaining open as normal are shifting. It is also clear that schools are finding it increasingly difficult to continue as normal, as illness and self-isolation impact on staffing levels and pupil attendance. I want to provide parents, students and staff with the certainty they need.
After schools shut their gates on Friday afternoon, they will remain closed until further notice. That will be for all children except those of key workers and the children who are most vulnerable. The scientific advice shows that these settings are safe for this small number of children to continue attending, but asking others to stay away will help us to slow the spread of this virus. Examples of key workers include NHS staff, police and delivery drivers who need to be able to go to work. Vulnerable children include those who have a social worker and those with education, health and care plans. Looking after these children will enable schools to support the country through this extremely challenging time. We are expecting early years providers, sixth forms and further education colleges to do the same. We are working with Her Majesty’s Treasury on the financial support that will be required. I am also asking that independent schools and boarding schools follow the same approach.
We will give schools the flexibility to provide meals or vouchers to children eligible for free school meals. Some schools are already doing this, and we will reimburse the costs. As soon as possible, we will put in place a national voucher system for every child who is eligible for free school meals. I know that all of this will not be easy. I am asking nurseries, schools and colleges to be at the forefront of our national response to this crisis.
Given the unprecedented asks that we are making of all those who are working in educational settings at this time, I recognise that we are asking so much of them. We will be asking them to provide for these settings to be open to children of key workers and to vulnerable children during the Easter holidays as well.
I recognise that what schools will be doing in these circumstances will look very different from the normal state of affairs, and will ensure that leaders have the flexibility that they need to face this challenge. In order to allow schools and other settings to focus on this new operational model and the support they can give to these young people, we are removing various duties. Ofsted has ceased all routine inspection of early years, schools, colleges and children’s social care services. I can confirm that we will not go ahead with assessments or exams, and that we will not be publishing performance tables for this academic year. We will work with the sector and Ofqual to ensure that children get the qualifications that they need.
My Department is working closely with local authorities, representatives of early years, schools and headteachers, regional school commissioners and bodies such as Ofsted and Ofqual about how to deliver this change as effectively as possible. We will do whatever is necessary to support local authorities, schools and teachers through the weeks and months ahead.
I know that many universities and other higher education institutions are already taking necessary steps to keep their staff and students safe and, where possible, keep providing education. I am confident that vice-chancellors are making the right decisions and my Department continues to support them in doing so.
This is a testing time for the whole nation, but by asking schools and other settings to look after the children of key workers and the most vulnerable, we will be directly saving people’s lives. Whether a parent or a teacher, I want people to know that their wellbeing and that of their children is the absolute priority for me and my Department. We are completely committed to ensuring that every child receives the best education possible, and we will be working with the BBC and others to provide resources for children to access at home.
I am deeply grateful for the civic spirit and selfless dedication that has been, and continues to be, shown by teachers and other school workers every single day. I am committed to giving my full support throughout every stage of this crisis to those who are doing so much for all of us. I know that our teachers and those working in education have the full support of the House and that hon. Members will do what they can to support schools and other providers in their own constituencies through this period of change. I wish to thank them in advance for the work that they will do. I would also like to take the opportunity to thank the Opposition, particularly the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner), for their co-operation, advice and thoughts at this time.
Our headteachers and teachers are central to the country’s response to the current crisis. I am reassured by their readiness to step up and to take the lead in supporting families through this most incredibly difficult time. All of those who work in our schools, colleges and universities rightly take their place next to our NHS staff and other key workers as central to our efforts as a country in battling the virus, and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for all of their support and all they do. I commend the statement to the House.
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement and for the discussions that we have had over recent days. As he knows, I have written to him with a number of questions about his Department’s dealing with the fallout of covid-19. I hope he will be able to provide some of the answers now, but I also look forward to his detailed response as soon as possible.
I know that these are extraordinary times, and that parents and carers are worried. Let me put on record our thanks to and support for all those working in our education and children’s services through this crisis. They, along with parents and learners of all ages, now seek both reassurance and guidance from Government. The steps that have finally been taken today are welcome, but can the Secretary of State tell us how the reduced service provided in schools will work? In particular, may I press him on free school meals. He says that he will give schools flexibility, but with millions of children in poverty, and many families now facing even worse, can he guarantee that free school meals will be made available to all those eligible, and will he take steps to extend that to breakfasts and over the school holidays?
Children with disabilities and underlying health conditions are at particular risk. Can the Secretary of State tell us what steps he is taking to support them and their parents and ensure that the guidance is easily found? Where is the guidance available for parents who have underlying health conditions? Can they take their children out of school if they are themselves in isolation or at risk, and will the new guidance be issued on fines for parents who withdraw their children from school? What advice and support is he offering to special schools serving those with particularly serious physical conditions, which are often residential?
The same is true for the education workforce. Will the Secretary of State make it clear to all employers that workers in the vulnerable categories identified by the Government must not now be placed under pressure to be in work and should be sent home? Staff are also worried about being paid. What reassurances can he give, especially to those sadly now on casual contracts or insecure terms, and what is his plan for supply teachers?
There is widespread concern about the exams. Clarity is required about pupils who were due to sit their SATS, GCSEs or A-levels and will now not do so. Can the Secretary of State tell us when decisions will be made and how they will be communicated?
The Secretary of State mentioned that he expects childcare providers to close. Many are already close to collapse. Can he confirm what support is available and whether emergency business rate relief will apply?
The Secretary of State also said that he will support vice-chancellors in their decision making in higher education, but is it not now time for him to avoid all doubt by issuing clear guidance, protecting staff and students alike? Can he share the evidence and modelling behind his decision not to do so?
Finally, let me turn to an area that the Secretary of State did not mention, but that is vital to the most vulnerable—children’s social work and youth services. Children’s services are already suffering from years of cuts. They will now face staff shortages at the time when there will be a greater need for them than ever before. The poorest and most vulnerable paid the highest price for austerity. We cannot allow them to pay the highest price for the latest crisis too. Will he commit to return to the House next week with a statement on that area of his responsibilities and, I hope, with new resources to support those on the frontline?
The crisis will test us all. Our communities and public services have all stepped up, and I am so proud of them. Schools are already working to assist parents and pupils in putting systems in place. The Opposition place the greatest priority on protecting the most vulnerable. I urge the Government to do the same.
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Lady makes the same point that every single Member on this side of the House would make. We are all acting to try to protect those who are most vulnerable. She raised a number of issues, including free school meals. To ensure that no child is in a situation where they will not receive free school meals, we will give schools the authority and the ability to issue vouchers to every child immediately for next week. I would like to progress to a stage where, in a large number of schools around the country, there is also the ability to provide meals there, but that will depend on staffing in each school.
On the serious disability guidance, that will be coming forward. We recognise the importance of it and we are working with Public Health England to get that published. On guidance for children who are absent, that will be included in the Bill that we will bring forward to the House, which will give clarity and assurance to parents and schools as to what the situation is.
The hon. Lady raised an important point about exams, the importance of exams and, most importantly, ensuring that every child gets the recognition that they need for the work that they have put in towards their GCSEs, A-levels or other applied general qualifications. We will make sure that every child gets the proper recognition that they deserve. We will obviously update the House on that. We are working closely with Ofqual on a detailed set of measures that make sure that no child is unfairly penalised.
The hon. Lady also touched on the point of how we ensure that early years providers are properly supported. We have already announced that there will be support through business rates. We have also written to all those providers that the funding that we have been giving to them will be maintained through this period, despite the fact that their operations will obviously be running quite differently from how they have in the past.
I should highlight the point about children who are most vulnerable. The reason we know that it is incredibly important to keep educational settings open, not just for key workers but for those most vulnerable children, is that those are the children every hon. Member has the greatest concerns about. Often, their school is the safest place for them. That is why we have taken the action that we have to make sure that they are included in the support alongside key workers. We recognise that there will be a lot of work to do with local authorities and social services to make sure that there is continued support for every one of those children in this difficult and challenging time.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for the breadth of the statement today. Necessarily, there is still a lot of detail to be worked out, not least on qualifications. For me, in talking to headteachers today, it has been humbling—not surprising, but humbling—to see the depth of their commitment to supporting their family and the whole of our society through this crisis. May I ask my right hon. Friend for flexibility, where necessary, to add to the designations of vulnerable children, as schools know their families best, and to add to the designations of key workers, where appropriate? May I also ask for schools to work together, where appropriate, in pairs or in clusters, particularly in areas where there are small schools?
Gavin Williamson
We will very much be looking at working with schools to ensure that they are best able to operate together and deliver those services. The issue of flexibility is absolutely at the core of this. While we are looking at what we are having to deal with today, we equally have to recognise that some of the challenges and demands on the system are going to be substantially greater in the weeks ahead than they currently are, and we will need constantly to change our response. We will certainly work with headteachers and all of our organisations to make sure that we get this right. On key workers, the Cabinet Office will be giving a more detailed response about who those key workers are.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
I thank the Education Secretary for advance sight of his statement. I declare an interest in that my wife is a primary school teacher in Scotland, albeit on maternity leave. I wish to put on record our thanks to all staff in the education sector for all they have done and will continue to do during this crisis to continue to provide the best service they can in the most challenging of circumstances. Pupils, parents and staff are worried, and that is understandable.
Education is devolved, but many of the decisions made here at Westminster in these critical areas have a knock-on impact on the devolved nations. Tomorrow, the Scottish Education Secretary, John Swinney, will be making a detailed statement to Holyrood, following on from the announcement made by the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, regarding school closures.
There are three key areas on which I wish to question the Secretary of State. First, to build on what he said about ensuring that children of frontline public service workers and those from key industries have access to childcare during these school closures, we need these workers at their work where possible—relying on family is not an option in these times—and now education staff themselves are actually in areas of critical importance. Has there been discussion with the private nursery sector about what educational closures mean for them? We know Government-supported hours will continue to be paid, but for many that will simply not cover the shortfall and will not be sustainable. Have the Government considered how the private nursery sector might be called on to provide the emergency childcare support that will be needed? Nicola Sturgeon alluded to this in her statement. Will the UK Government follow suit?
Secondly, there are millions of families across the UK who rely on free school meals for their children. For some, it will be the only guaranteed meal they have in the day. The policy is devolved—it is more advanced in Scotland—but what discussions has the Secretary of State had with some of his Cabinet colleagues, such as the Work and Pensions Secretary, to ensure that families who rely on school meals do not incur any further hardship because schools are closed? The Secretary of State’s suggestion of a voucher scheme was a bit vague, and perhaps cash payments via the social security or tax system might be considered as well. Has he discussed these potential flexibilities with the Scottish Government to ensure that we can all approach this situation as fairly as possible?
Finally, what discussions have been had with the qualifications authorities across the UK, and with university, college and employers organisations about how pupils due to sit exams are not disadvantaged by these closures? The closures are going to cover the exam period. Have the UK Government had any discussions with the likes of Universities UK about alternative ways of scoring to exams? It goes without saying that these decisions cannot be siloed; there must be cross-Government and cross-sector co-operation. I hope the Secretary of State will agree to that approach, and that dialogue and discussions with the devolved authorities will continue.
Gavin Williamson
I am very grateful to the Deputy First Minister in Scotland for the discussions we have had and the work we have already started undertaking together, recognising that the issues and co-ordinating a response across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are incredibly important.
The hon. Gentleman raises the issue of the private nursery sector. We have established a working group with that sector and we have already been addressing key issues in making sure that it has confidence in the finance it is expecting to receive from Government—this will continue.
On free school meals, the hon. Gentleman raises the issue of direct payments from the Department for Work and Pensions. That is one of the things we are actively considering. We can do this either through that method or other methods that can be used to do it, but we would do it in consultation with the Scottish Government. On the issue of universities, we have a completely integrated system, where so many students from all four nations of the UK do not pause for a moment when they are thinking about where they may wish to go to university. We have had discussions with Universities UK about how best to deal with this. Part of the answers he and many others will be seeking we will not be able to give until we have a greater and clearer idea as to how this virus is going to pan out and how the actions we are taking are going to curtail it. But we are already in extensive discussions and looking at various ways of making sure that every child has the best opportunity of going on to the university of their choice.
Mr Speaker
May I just advise the House that I expect to run this statement until about 6.45 pm?
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
Several heads have contacted me to say that they wanted their schools to remain open at all costs, so this will be a great upheaval for them, but I respect that schools are being kept open for certain people. What is crucial is where the definition of “key workers” comes in, so may I stress that giving some discretion to heads is essential, as is whether school premises can remain open for outside groups that use their facilities? Inevitably, informal childcare groups and arrangements will spring up and there are safeguarding considerations in that regard. So will the Department make sure guidance is given so that workers who continue to go to work and are able to have childcare arrangements are doing it in the safest way for them and for their children?
Gavin Williamson
I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that reassurance, and I very much take on board the point he makes about the need for flexibility for schools to be able to demonstrate some discretion.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)
Parents may not be key workers but they will be key workers in their homes, because they are the ones who are paying the mortgage, the rent and the bills. So if parents cannot go out to work because their children cannot go to school, who will pay their salaries?
Gavin Williamson
In this statement, we are dealing with making sure that we have the provision we need for those key workers in order to sustain our NHS, but I very much accept that many wider issues are raised as a result of this. That is why we have had some reluctance to be in a position of closing schools rapidly, but when the evidence and the science point out the fact that we need to make changes, it is right that we do so.
Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con)
The measures that my right hon. Friend has announced are profound, but it would appear that, in the circumstances, they are now a necessary step to take. Does the definition of “vulnerable children” include children in need, of whom there are about 400,000, and children on a child protection plan, of whom there are about 50,000? If it does, that will significantly increase the number of children whom we hope will still be able to go to school.
Gavin Williamson
This is for all those children with a social worker, so those are the categories that will be covered.
Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State give further clarification on those taking A-levels and going on to university? Will the discussions with UCAS bear in mind the most disadvantaged children, to ensure that no one will lose out and that not just mock A-level results but wider considerations are taken into account? Will these results and answers come soon, because these children will be very worried about their future?
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Lady raises important points. Yes, we will be doing that. We will also be looking to ensure that those who do not feel that the result is truly reflective of their work have a proper and substantive appeal mechanism.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
The private nursery sector plays a crucial role in enabling parents, but in particular mothers, to go back to work. They are absolutely crying out for clarity and support from the Government, and they feel very strongly, in the words of my constituent Lou Simmons, that they have seen pubs and retail get a great deal more assistance than they have. Will my right hon. Friend provide clarity about whether they are entitled to the business rates holiday and whether he will consider extending more support to that sector so that it can continue to provide crucial support at a really desperate time?
Gavin Williamson
My right hon. Friend raises an important point. Nurseries are eligible for business rates relief and, even more importantly, for continued support of the revenue that they would receive from the Government for the cohorts of children they would have. That will continue, which is a key element that they need to have in order to continue to pay staff.
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
May I press the Secretary of State for clear guidance on the private nursery sector and whether the statement includes them? Can he also give clearer guidance to non-local authority youth groups and clubs, which presumably know that they cannot meet, but will require clear instructions from the Government so that they are covered in all circumstances, including those relevant for insurance purposes?
Gavin Williamson
It will not be suitable for them to meet, but there is an important aspect for the whole voluntary sector as to how it can look at playing an important role, contributing in many different ways to this national endeavour to deal with the crisis facing our whole nation. There will probably be a substantive role for many such organisations to look at playing within some school settings as, of course, those organisations will have individuals who are DBS-checked.
Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)
One of the categories who will have most difficulty with this decision are the parents of children at special needs schools. As the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) pointed out, some of them are residential. Is any particular provision being made to support those parents?
Gavin Williamson
We recognise that a small number of children will be in a special school that has a residential setting. In a number of those cases, it will be important and essential for that setting to remain open, and we will be looking at those individually to see how best we support them and, critically, how we ensure that they have the right type of staffing, as they will suffer the effects of the spread of this virus, as will other educational establishments.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
With regards to the voucher system that the Secretary of State pointed out, we are about to see an explosion in the number of people who are eligible for free school meals because of the downturn in the economy. Will he guarantee today that the voucher system will not just be for those who are eligible as of last week, but for those who would be eligible in the future? It has always been problematic to get people on the right benefits to claim free school meals.
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
This Easter holiday was, for good students, their opportunity to revise, so we do not have a great deal of time to give proper guidance for A-level and GCSE students. How long should they expect it to be before they know exactly what is going to happen?
Gavin Williamson
We will be giving very clear guidance for all schools and all students. There will not be exams taking place this year, and we will be making sure, for every child due to be sitting GCSEs, A-levels or any other form of qualifications and expecting results in August, that the work they have done is properly reflected in those GCSEs and A-levels.
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State say a bit more about the advice being given to universities? He will also know that international students are hugely important in many places. Will he press UK Visas and Immigration to be flexible in the way they apply the tier 4 visa rules? We do not want students being told that they are being penalised because they switch to online learning.
Gavin Williamson
That issue was raised with me yesterday by Universities UK. We are in contact with the Home Office to take up the point that the hon. Gentleman raises. We must also recognise that we have a duty and an obligation towards the many international students who are here in the United Kingdom and not able to return home. We must ensure that accommodation in halls of residence continues to remain available for them until they are in a position to return to their loved ones.
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
All our constituents will be grateful to my right hon. Friend for his measured and practical statement, and in particular his words of support and gratitude for all those who work in our schools and colleges. He said that more information will be available from the Cabinet Office in respect of key workers and vulnerable children. Can he say a bit more about those two specific groups and how we, as a society, will exercise our duty of care to them?
Gavin Williamson
I feel as if I could be in danger of starting to draw up a list at some stage of who those key workers are. That will be done by the Cabinet Office and made available from tomorrow, to give those people clarity and ensure that school leaders have a clear understanding of who those key worker groups are.
Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)
Many of my constituents live in incredibly overcrowded households. Grandparents will find themselves looking after children from Friday onwards, while parents who are not key workers will be going to work. Social distancing and self-isolation is practically impossible in those situations. What guidance and advice can the Secretary of State give in that regard?
Gavin Williamson
We very much recognise the challenges that many families will face. We have had to prioritise in taking every action possible to stem this virus. That is why we have taken this action, with a deeply heavy heart. Key workers’ children and vulnerable children account for approximately 10% of the school-age population, and we will be looking at provision for them. We have to look at what action can be taken to stem this virus, and the scientific advice is that this is the best step to be taking.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
I appreciate that this is an incredibly difficult announcement for the Secretary of State, and it almost certainly raises more questions than it answers. On the detail, I want to flag up two things. First, in terms of special educational needs schools, there is an outstanding SEN school called Milestone School just outside my constituency, and it will be very difficult for those children’s parents to look after them. Any clarification he could give on schools that wish to remain open would be helpful.
Secondly, in terms of apprenticeships, many people leaving school with GCSEs in maths and English, which are essential for apprenticeships, will want to know whether they will still be eligible. What will happen to apprentices who are studying at further education colleges but will no longer be able to do so? Will they lose their apprenticeships?
Gavin Williamson
No one will be in a position where we take away the work that they have been doing in their apprenticeships. We have already made it clear to the college sector and the independent training providers who deliver so many apprenticeships that funding for apprenticeships is continuing. In terms of special schools, all children who have an EHC plan will be designated as vulnerable children.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
Can the Secretary of State advise us on the discussions he has had with the Education Minister in Northern Ireland? I understand that the Department of Education will shortly make an announcement about schools in Northern Ireland. Will he assure us that those discussions will continue if there is any review of this decision?
Gavin Williamson
Over the last week and more, I have been privileged to have a number of discussions with the Education Minister and the First Minister of Northern Ireland. We have done everything we can to co-ordinate our approach to the common challenge of defeating this virus. There will continue to be close dialogue between the Assembly and the Administration in Northern Ireland and my Department.
Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)
I am grateful for the Secretary of State’s commitment to children in care and on the fringes of care. Teachers will be concerned about some children who do not have a social worker or an EHC plan. Can those teachers be involved in the decision-making process? Could he press for teachers and social workers to be included as key workers?
Gavin Williamson
I assure my hon. Friend that teachers and social workers will be included in the designation of key workers. I note that a number of Members have raised the issue of there being an element of flexibility, so that teachers and school leaders are able to show an element of discretion. We must not forget that the reason why we are taking this action is to limit the spread of the virus. The scientific and medical advice is that taking this action and reducing the number of children in education settings will have an impact in terms of reducing the spread of the virus. Nevertheless, I have heard what the House has said about looking into providing an element of flexibility, and I will certainly take that away.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
As my hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) pointed out, millions of children in our country live in poverty, which is why I particularly welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement about the voucher system. However, in his responses hitherto there has been a palpable lack of detail about the voucher system. How will they be redeemed? Where will they be redeemed? I fear that without attention to detail, the voucher system will become merely worthless pieces of paper.
Gavin Williamson
That certainly will not be the case. Members on the Government Benches recognise and completely understand the importance of ensuring that every child who is eligible for free school meals is able to receive them and able to get food. We recognise that we may be dealing with this situation not just for a few weeks but for quite a long and sustained period of time, and we would want to move to a more conventional system in order to be able to get money to families in the best possible way. Another aspect is that the reason why we came up with the process of free school meals is that we recognise that for a child to be able to go to a school and receive a meal is an incredibly powerful thing to be able to offer. We are going to look into whether there is a way to deliver that much more broadly in so many more schools, but that will be dependent on the number of schools we are able to have open and available.
Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con)
The Secretary of State has answered two questions from colleagues on very special schools. I have two such schools in Bridgwater: Penrose and Elmwood. These children have some of the most difficult challenges in society, and I do not yet understand what the Secretary of State is going to do, if the schools are shut down, to make sure that those children are cared for through the county council system and the social work system. By and large, their parents are working. We need clarification —these children cannot be left without major help.
Gavin Williamson
I am sure that the schools to which my hon. Friend refers will have children who will have an education, health and care plan, which is the reason why they attend that school, so they would be included in the category of vulnerable.
Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
Many parents will think that this is the right thing to do for their kids and for us to stop the virus spreading, but they will also be really worried that they just cannot afford to stop work to look after them and cannot get the grandparents to step in. Given that the Secretary of State said this situation could last for some time, will he look at urgent financial support for parents—not just of those on free school meals, but all parents in these circumstances—or at working with local councils on free childcare options in much smaller or one-to-one settings, which could help?
Gavin Williamson
That is certainly something we have been discussing with the Treasury and something that we will be highlighting as part of a wider range of economic issues that the Chancellor recognises he needs to address.
Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)
On the issue of key workers, I think it is going to be a little more complex than the Secretary of State says. For example, what about those who work in our food distribution sector? However, I wish to ask about what he said about schools being closed until further notice— I am thinking back to the question that the Prime Minister was asked at Prime Minister’s questions by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May). Does he have any expectation that schools will open, for the population as a whole, at any time before the end of this year?
Gavin Williamson
Obviously, my greatest hope is that we could get schools opened very rapidly, but I am going to be guided by the best scientific and medical advice in terms of when we do that. My right hon. Friend also referred to the fact that the term key workers should not just be seen to refer only to NHS professionals—that it is much broader. That is very clearly understood by the Cabinet Office, and what we do will reflect that fact.
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has called on nurseries and early years providers to be part of a national effort to combat this. When will the Government set out what steps they will take to provide additional financial support to nurseries, going beyond the funding he set out for the continuation of funded places? My worry is that if we do not provide additional support very quickly, staff will be laid off and some of these nurseries might never reopen.
Gavin Williamson
As I alluded to earlier, we have already guaranteed the Government funding regardless of what their pupil numbers are in terms of continued funding for all those nursery settings. We have already done it.
Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend join me in thanking all the staff and everyone involved, including parents, for the effort they have made so far and for the common-sense and sensible approach that they have taken to keeping schools open? We need to understand that we are doing this as a national effort and everyone has to play their part to keep the NHS at a capacity at which it can cope with this virus, and this change is part of that effort. My one concern in my area, which is rural, is whether the school transport provision will still be in place for those children who still need to attend their schools because they are eligible.
Gavin Williamson
We are certainly very much hoping that the school transport system will be there, although that is dependent on other strains within the transport network. My hon. Friend highlights the importance of saying an enormous thank you to those many public servants who have been doing so much to support parents and families and, most importantly, to support children. We are incredibly indebted to them, but we recognise that we will still be asking an awful lot more of them in the future.
Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD)
My mind is boggling at the logistical challenge that is about to face schools and I add my voice to those thanking them in advance for what they are about to do. This will raise more questions than anything else. Last week, the helpline set up by the Department for Education was overwhelmed with questions to such an extent that it stopped working. If schools have questions, where should they go?
On the point about EHCPs, the Secretary of State will know that it can take up to two years to get them. Nine out of 10 that go to the ombudsman are found in favour of the parents. Is it not time just to grant all EHCPs in the system so that all children, even if they are on the margins of being vulnerable, get the help that they need?
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Lady mentions the helpline, and we have put extra resource on to that and we have made sure that it is open at weekends. We will also be writing directly to schools with a clear set of guidance on how to proceed. Our regional school commissioners are working closely with local education authorities to provide all the information needed going forward.
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)
I appreciate that the Secretary of State is trying to bring clarity. My question is on GCSEs. He has clearly said that they are not going to happen, and that there will be some kind of system for awarding them. When he comes back and tells us how that system will work, the year 11 students will presumably then know exactly what their grades are. In fact, they might know their grades in the next few weeks. This comes at an emotional cost to year 11 students who have been revising hard, studying hard and preparing themselves for the biggest educational challenge of their lives so far. What support will be put in place to help with the emotional challenge that those year 11 students are going through?
Gavin Williamson
Like everyone else, I recognise that this is not what one would call an ideal situation. I certainly did not want to be the Education Secretary who cancelled all exams. We realise we have to have a fair system in order properly to reflect the work that all pupils have put into their GCSEs, A-levels and the other qualifications they have been entered into. We recognise that this comes at considerable emotional cost, as they have been working together. We are in exceptional circumstances. We are not in a position in which we are able to provide the usual settings and support that one might expect in a school, but we are looking at different ways in which we can support young people through what will be a difficult and challenging time as they face up to the reality of the fact that the school or college that they are incredibly fond of and which has been part of their life for such a long time will not be part of their everyday life.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
The Secretary of State said councils will play a key part in what he has announced. Yesterday, the Chancellor announced a whole range of new measures for the economy. Durham County Council spent all day trying to get guidance on that, only to be told that it will not be available until Friday. When will guidance on what the Secretary of State has announced be given to councils? Will he also answer the question from the shadow Secretary of State about supply teachers? Those people do not have permanent contracts. They are going to find they have no income. The Secretary of State spoke warm words about teachers; these are teachers too, and they need support.
Gavin Williamson
We will certainly write to all local authorities and all schools with guidance, and that will happen today. Before I came to the House, I spoke to the director of children’s services who represents the Association of Directors of Children’s Services about what we are doing. They were very clear about the need for local and national Government to work together. On supply teachers, there will be exceptional demand for the services of all teachers in the system—those on regular contracts and supply teachers.
Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)
We will pay teachers when their schools are closed, because the closure is not their fault and we will need them again, but that applies to many other employees across the economy. That could be addressed very straightforwardly if the Government brought forward urgently a package to support employees’ wages right across the economy. Will the Secretary of State, when he finishes this statement, talk to the Prime Minister and the Chancellor to ask them to turn their attention, within the next few hours, to making a statement on support for employees generally across the economy?
Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)
No one doubts the scale of the challenge facing the Secretary of State. Frankly, his job would have been made much easier had the Chancellor come forward last night with provisions for income protection for people right across the economy. I hope the Secretary of State takes that message back. However, his statement contains considerable holes too. What arrangements will be put in place for people sitting vocational assessments and those teaching them? Will he say more about what is going on in further education?
On vulnerable children, there are children in my constituency living in temporary bed-and-breakfast accommodation, for whom school is an escape from the awful conditions at home, who are not subject to EHCPs and do not have social workers. As well as coming forward with more detailed answers about key workers, will the Secretary of State set out in detail what we mean by vulnerable children? If we are asking people to prepare and not to panic, the Government need to be prepared; otherwise, statements like this one will lead to panic.
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Gentleman refers to his concerns about some of those children. I very much imagine that they would be included in those children who are most vulnerable.
Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)
I appreciate that children will not be sitting any exams this year, but is the expectation that they will continue to receive an education? Is there anything we can do to support schools to deliver remote teaching, and to support parents who want to help with home learning?
Gavin Williamson
As my hon. Friend will be aware, schools have been doing a lot to provide children with work and enable them to continue to study if the school closes. We are working closely with the BBC, and we are looking at putting more resources online in order to support children to continue to learn even if they are not in an education setting.
Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State spoke about teachers getting paid, but many others work in schools, including lunchtime supervisors, caretakers and cleaners, many of whom are contract staff. Will all school staff carry on getting paid, or will only teachers and those on full-time guaranteed contracts be paid?
Gavin Williamson
It will probably not surprise the hon. Gentleman that we will continue to fully fund schools, and that those people who are working in schools will continue to get paid.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
How will large numbers of young people released from school be persuaded to stay at home and avoid social contact?
Gavin Williamson
My right hon. Friend poses a challenge, and as the father of two teenage daughters I am acutely aware of youngsters’ desire to socialise, but what we are facing in this country is not normal. It is not something any of us have seen in our childhood, and it is not a situation any of us would like to see or be in, and we need to accept that everyone has to exhibit a different set of behaviours to be able to stem this virus. That comes with challenges, but we are only taking the steps we are taking because we believe they will go towards ensuring that this virus does not spread as widely as it could.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
We have 48 hours before schools close, and we have no clear list of who is going to be able to send their children to school next week or after the Easter holidays. We have known for several weeks that we were going to reach this stage, so can the Secretary of State say what preparations he has made with local education authorities and schools to help draw up these lists and set out a plan to keep schools open? I think this is the right move, but I do not think the preparations have been done.
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Gentleman will probably have heard my response earlier: the list of key workers will be published tomorrow. That will be available for schools, and we are very conscious that we need to get that information to all schools as quickly as possible.
Andrew Lewer (Northampton South) (Con)
As chairman of the all-party group, I bring the positive message from the independent education sector that it is part of communities—it wants to help, and it wants the Department to know that. There is also a concern: will boarding schools be allowed or be expected to continue caring for any remaining boarders, especially international ones, who have not gone home or cannot do so?
Gavin Williamson
My hon. Friend highlights an issue that is quite common in the university sector for international students. As I have said with international students in university settings, we must recognise our obligations to those young people, and we recognise that in boarding schools as well.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
Like many households around the country, ours was facing exams this year—both GCSEs and A-levels—and there is certainly some disappointment that my children will not be facing those challenges this year. They may be slightly happier at the moment, but I think once reality sets in they will feel disappointed as well. However, I understand why this process is necessary. Will the appeal process that is being envisaged be completed by the time options are chosen for next year?
Gavin Williamson
There is a standard appeal process on exam grades, and that has always been structured to ensure that it is completed before university begins. We are looking at putting in place additional measures, such as enabling a child rapidly to take a fresh set of tests or exams, but we have to be conscious of the fact that we do not know how the virus will manifest itself and in what sort of timescales we will see peak and reduction. I am not in a position to be able to say on what dates that will happen and the consequences that the virus may have in additional knock-on effects for other institutions and academic years.
Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con)
As a parent of two primary-age children, I know that the conversation about how best to provide routine and educational support at home has been going on in school communities for quite some time. As my right hon. Friend says, schools are working very hard to rush out resources that can be used at home. In my previous role on the Education Committee I met many education technology companies that have excellent apps and resources online. What can the Department do to help, promote and highlight some of those existing resources to parents?
Gavin Williamson
We already have an edtech strategy for promoting this, but we will see a much more rapid and speedy evolution of some of these learning aids and resources, and we must look at how best we can harness new technology to ensure that all children are in a position to be able to get the very best out of education, even in the coming weeks.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State say more about special schools like Gibside in my constituency that have children with very special needs? Is he saying that schools like Gibside will remain open? If so, what support can be given to the staff?
Gavin Williamson
We have to recognise that schools such as Gibside will be facing considerable pressures in terms of staffing and the spread of the virus, but also in terms of pupils who may be unwell. Many children who attend special schools such as Gibside will be on an EHCP, which obviously puts them in the category of vulnerable children for whom we are looking to make sure there is continued provision.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
This has been a sobering statement, and I want to put on record how much I appreciate the tone used by the Secretary of State and the hon. Member for Ashton-under- Lyne (Angela Rayner).
My question is on behalf of university students. What will they pay for their tuition fees?
Gavin Williamson
There are currently no plans to change the tuition fees. Obviously, as has been highlighted, universities will continue teaching online. We will be working very closely with Universities UK to ensure students have their grades in a timely manner to ensure they are able to move on to the next stage of their lives.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
Our schools are not only amazing centres of learning but are centres of support for children living in poverty, including 48% of children in Newcastle upon Tyne Central. On free school meals, is the Secretary of State, like Newcastle City Council, looking at ensuring the continued delivery of hot meals to children’s homes? He talks of encouraging online learning, but there is a digital divide in this country and the libraries that help to close that divide are themselves closing. Will he guarantee access to broadband for all children whose schools are shut?
Gavin Williamson
We will certainly be looking at working with local authorities such as Newcastle City Council on making sure we have the broadest provision of meals for children and on how best that is delivered. As I touched on in the statement, we will look at how we can grow and expand that not just in Newcastle but in many other areas.
The hon. Lady highlights an important point about the digital divide in this country, and we will be looking at working with schools to ensure that pupils who do not have access to digital resources can have other resources that enable them to learn when schools are closed.
James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)
Until now, the expert advice has been that a consequence of closing schools is that children may have to stay with their grandparents, who are the most vulnerable people. What is now the advice for parents? Should they take advantage of grandparents? If not, may I urge that the support package being considered by the Chancellor addresses this issue?
Gavin Williamson
We ask all parents to look at the advice given by Public Health England. Obviously, there are many grandparents who are very young and healthy, but we need parents to consider the individual circumstances of their family to make the best assessment. We need to protect those who are most vulnerable and, of course, the most vulnerable are those over the age of 70 and those with underlying health conditions.
Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his statement and for the tone in which he has conducted himself.
I have two questions. First, on A-levels, is the Secretary of State able to offer more detail on when the alternative form of assessment will be published? Secondly, on university admissions, can he update the House on what discussions he has had with the university sector to ensure university admissions are fair?
Gavin Williamson
We will be making sure that we publish further advice on A-levels next week. We have had discussions with Universities UK, and we need to look at how we can ensure universities are open and ready to take in a new cohort of students in the next academic year, but the fairness of the system and making sure young people do not miss out on opportunities for which they have worked so hard is at the core of what we will be doing.
Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for addressing the concerns that I raised about vulnerable children in Wolverhampton. All of these extraordinary measures have the aim of preserving life, and to do that we need to maximise capacity in our NHS. What will be the implications of these measure for our staff in the NHS?
Gavin Williamson
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue with me a few days ago. Obviously, as constituency neighbours, we were both acutely aware that this is something that we needed to tackle. We have taken these measures to reduce the chance and the spread of infection. The reason why we have taken the difficult decision to make educational settings available for key workers is to ensure that brilliant hospitals such as New Cross in Wolverhampton can continue to function and to offer the support and the vital healthcare that is needed not just for her constituents, but for my mine in South Staffordshire.
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
It would be very helpful if the Secretary of State could give a clear timetable as to when he will make an announcement about A-levels in particular, but also GCSEs, because pupils will be worrying. I wanted to follow up on the questions from my hon. Friends the Members for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) and for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) about children who are living in severely overcrowded conditions in my constituency. There are those, for example, in homeless hostels, where at least we can identify the situation they are in by their address, but more particularly there are those in overcrowded flats where there is one family in the living room and one in the bedroom and very often parents who have no recourse to public funds. There will be a very big problem for those vulnerable children, many of whom are not looked after and have no social worker. I am sure—I hope—that his Department has considered this, and will he please give us some information now about what he will do about it with colleagues across Government? If he cannot do so now, can he tell us when he will brief those of us who have this endemic problem in our constituencies?
Gavin Williamson
Certainly. The reason why we have announced the response that we have is to ensure that it covers a broad range of children, including not just those of key workers, but those who are vulnerable. The hon. Lady may like to write to me with specific suggestions and actions that she feels the Department should consider taking. My concern and interest is making sure that we do everything in the interests of both stemming this virus and protecting the interests of those children no matter where they live in this country.
Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend clarify whether the children he outlined earlier will continue to attend the same school, and what considerations have been given to children-teacher ratios and class sizes? Small schools such as Zetland Primary School in Redcar may struggle in the current climate.
Gavin Williamson
As part of the Bill that we are bringing forward, we will be removing the ratios that present some of the challenges to schools. I would be wrong, though, to give my hon. Friend the promise that children will necessarily be able to continue to attend their current school. We do not know at the moment the consequences of the spread of this virus, and we may need to show a high degree of flexibility in how we provide that support and care. Sometimes that may require children attending different schools, hopefully in close proximity to their home. None the less, we do recognise the challenges that are going to be raised as a result of this announcement.
Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)
Universities are expecting a huge hit financially, because international students will not be able to come here, despite the provision of some online learning. What support will be provided to universities such as the University of Bedfordshire in my constituency to ensure that they do not go bankrupt? The Government and the Office for Students have previously said that they would not usually step in under such circumstances.
Gavin Williamson
The financial health of the university sector is obviously of key critical interest to us. We will be working closely with Universities UK to ensure the stability and strength of that important sector for not just learning but the economy. We urge universities who are going to face financial difficulties and pressures to start engaging in an early dialogue and be honest about some of the challenges that they are going to face financially. Otherwise, it is difficult to respond if something comes out of the blue.
The issue of international students is important. We have to be realistic and expect the number of international students who attend UK universities to be lower next year. How we work with the sector to replace that capacity in different ways is something that the Department is already working on. Certainly, we are already having those discussions with UUK.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
There are six big secondary schools in the borough of Kettering. Does the Secretary of State envisage that, to continue the education of children of key workers, those cohorts will be educated in the six separate schools, or that some arrangement will be made between the schools for them all to come together and teach the children in one place?
Gavin Williamson
In the initial instance, we hope that provision can be provided in the school that the child attends, but we recognise that, with the spread of the virus, that will not be realistic all the way through, so we will have to look at how we show flexibility. I have no doubt that, as in many towns and boroughs up and down the country, there is already a deep level of co-operation between schools in the local community in terms of sharing resources and learning. There are often good partnerships, but we will work with local education authorities, as well as regional schools commissioners, to help to facilitate that.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
At the moment, every infant school child is entitled to a free school meal. In my constituency, that applies to all junior school pupils as well. Can the Secretary of State confirm that he envisages all those currently entitled to free school meals being able to receive them in the future, irrespective of the income criteria that apply in secondary schools? If a school opts for a voucher solution, what does he expect each voucher to buy?
Gavin Williamson
The entitlement will be for all children who would normally be in receipt of free school meals, as against a much broader entitlement. We hope that families with vouchers will make best use of that money to make sure that it goes as far as possible. We certainly hope that it is a nutritious and good lunch.
Going back to what the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) raised about how we can work with local authorities and schools to offer more hot meals on premises, that is something that we are looking at. We have to recognise that there will be constraints in the system, however, especially with the spread of the virus, which will mean that that will not necessarily always be possible.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
Can the Secretary of State confirm that the forthcoming emergency coronavirus legislation will contain measures to disapply certain restrictions and regulations to allow schools to react and adapt to these difficult times?
Gavin Williamson
I absolutely assure my hon. Friend that that will be the case. That is why we are bringing forward the Bill.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
I apologise to the Secretary of State if I have missed something or not caught everything he has said about early years settings. Is he saying that childminders, nurseries, both private and statutory, and all other early years provision, are advised or instructed to close, or is he saying that some should remain open? If they close, can he guarantee that all staff will continue to receive full pay, irrespective of the nature of the setting?
Gavin Williamson
It does apply across the board. We have already written to early years settings to inform them that the funding that we have been providing for them will continue, regardless of changes in the number of children attending those settings, which gives them some stability in terms of future funding.
Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)
Many voluntary groups will be keen to work with schools and parents to provide additional support for vulnerable children—for example, in breakfast clubs. Will the Secretary of State thank voluntary groups for their work and encourage schools to continue to work with them to support vulnerable children in these difficult times?
Gavin Williamson
I know that my hon. Friend is a great champion of such issues in his constituency, and it was a great privilege to be able to join him on a recent visit to one of the high schools there. Let me take this opportunity to thank the many volunteers who contribute so much to our school system. We recognise, in these unique times, that we will be turning to whole communities in supporting one another and supporting those who are most vulnerable, whether they are young or old, to help them to get through the coming weeks.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
According to Public Health Warwickshire, 43% of nurses have children in schools. That obviously accounts for a great number, which increases when those in other blue-light services and other key workers are added. As the Secretary of State has said, it will be interesting to see what emerges tomorrow, but it must be of concern that many workers who are parents will withdraw from employment because their priority will be their children, and that will have an impact on many sectors. Perhaps the Secretary of State could say a bit more about what he envisages.
In respect of vouchers, may I urge the Secretary of State to prioritise the use of community cafés, and to address the issue of child protection? Finally, may I point out that France is ahead of us in the provision of online education? Lessons are already provided online for all schools. Perhaps the Secretary of State could look into that as well.
Gavin Williamson
The hon. Gentleman highlighted the large proportion of those working in the NHS who have children of school age. That is why it is so vital that we have taken this action to help them to continue in our battle against this virus.
Robert Largan (High Peak) (Con)
I welcome the announcement of measures that will help to reduce the risk of the virus spreading, while allowing NHS workers who are parents to stay on the front line where they are most needed. Glossopdale School has already offered to deliver packed lunches to the homes of pupils on free school meals, which is a model that other schools might want to consider. I urge the Secretary of State to ensure that the full details of which children are vulnerable and which people are key workers are communicated to both schools and parents as soon as possible, so that everyone knows where we stand.
Gavin Williamson
We certainly will be doing that. My hon. Friend has highlighted the fact that schools, head teachers, other teachers and all the support staff constantly go above and beyond in supporting children who are in their care.
Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)
The Secretary of State mentioned that he would work with Universities UK in examining the financial challenges that it may face. I am concerned about the lack of clear information about what direct support the Government will be giving to those in higher education. Has the Secretary of State thought about the changes that will happen to student finance payments? Has he looked into how degrees will be decided? Finally, what support will be given to international students should they wish to go back home?
Gavin Williamson
Yes, we have looked into what we need to do. The key point, which I made in response to the question from the hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins), is that if universities are in financial distress they will need to highlight that at the earliest possible stage. so that we can establish how we can best deal with it. As for the issue of international students, we recognise our obligation to ensure that they have continued accommodation here if they are unable to return to their home countries. The university sector has been excellent in responding and ensuring that accommodation is available, but there will be some students who cannot return home, and we will continue to support them.
Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)
My right hon. Friend said that he expected schools and nurseries to remain open during the Easter holidays for vulnerable children and the children of key workers. What sort of service does he expect them to provide, and what additional help will they be given?
Gavin Williamson
We realise that while we cannot ask schools and education settings to provide a normal school curriculum, it is important to provide activities that engage and encourage young people to attend. We will work across the board, but there are no better people than teachers to really understand what engages children and keeps them motivated.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
Last summer, Feeding Bristol distributed 53,000 meals to children, 75% of whom would otherwise have been in receipt of free school meals, but it did so in collective settings such as summer play schemes. Now we are in a very different scenario, as we are talking about getting meals out to children in individual places. What support could the Secretary of State give to organisations such as Feeding Bristol to help them facilitate the work they have been doing?
Gavin Williamson
We will be working closely with schools to ensure that there is a proper distribution of support. We have also made it clear to schools—I hope that I made it clear earlier in the statement—that costs incurred by them will be fully reimbursed.
Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
In answer to a previous question, my right hon. Friend said that schools could potentially form together into clusters; that does make sense in central London, where schools are close together. What will be the process of organising all that? Who is going to take the lead—the local authority? Clearly, there is not much time to make these arrangements.
Gavin Williamson
A key element will be the local education authority, with regional schools commissioners working together to promote those clusters. There is already a high level of cross-working between schools, but we recognise that that level of working together will enable us to provide much more robust provision throughout this crisis.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
Children face additional risks when family relationships are under pressure. One way of reducing some of the additional strain felt by families will be the financial response to this situation, so I urge the Secretary of State to take forward the suggestion of the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) about income replacement. Will he also come forward with plans setting out how he is going to support the child protection workforce, and conduct a proper risk assessment of the additional challenges faced by children in this crisis?
Gavin Williamson
I will certainly take up the hon. Gentleman’s point, and ensure that representations are made to the Chancellor and the Prime Minister.
Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con)
May I associate myself with my right hon. Friend’s earlier comments and pay tribute to the incredible work that teachers have been doing over the last few weeks? I have spoken to many heads in Warrington this afternoon, who have been fantastic. The last few weeks have really shown true spirit in the classroom—from teachers and support staff. Will the Government be reimbursing schools for any additional costs they incur through providing free school meals for children once schools have closed? Also, if schools choose to use voucher schemes, will he ensure that those families have priority access to supermarkets?
Gavin Williamson
I can absolutely guarantee that schools will be fully reimbursed for the costs they incur as a result of providing those meals. Obviously, we would look at ensuring additional help as a long-term measure. I will certainly take up my hon. Friend’s final point with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, who will be looking at such matters.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
I welcome the announcement that education settings are being encouraged to continue looking after the children of keyworkers, and vulnerable children, during the Easter holidays. But the Secretary of State knows that many school support staff are only paid for term-time working. Although I know that those dedicated staff will do all they can to help in a national crisis, I am sure he does not expect them to work for free, so will schools be supported to meet those extra staffing costs?
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
May I pay tribute to schools and to Hull City Council, which has already been working on plans to deal with children who get free school meals in the event of schools closing? It is welcome that the Department for Education is now taking the lead on this, although obviously we need more detail. Would the Secretary of State feel able to make representations to the Treasury to take up the recommendation of the Child Poverty Action Group, which is suggesting that one way of getting extra money into families is to increase child benefit by £10—now?
Gavin Williamson
I will certainly pass on that representation. I also thank Hull City Council for the work that it is doing to support schools and communities throughout the city of Kingston upon Hull.
Claudia Webbe (Leicester East) (Lab)
I have been contacted by a great many nurseries in my constituency who are understandably quite worried for the future. It is worth being clear about the detail. They said:
“Most of us will not survive more than a month without fee income. For some, it will be a matter of weeks.”
Nurseries are already under severe financial strain after a decade of Government underfunding, and childcare insurers are refusing to support them. I welcome the Secretary of State’s commitment to maintain nursery funding, but will he go further today and reassure my constituents by pledging to protect the income of nursery workers for as long as is necessary?
Gavin Williamson
I believe that for early years settings and nurseries we have probably gone further than any other aspect of business in making it absolutely clear that we will continue to guarantee the funding that they are in receipt of from Government, regardless of where the roll is. We made that statement yesterday. I very much hope that that point has been percolating right through the sector, but I will certainly ask the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), to continue to reiterate it to all nursery providers.
Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab)
I welcome the details that the Secretary of State has provided and the provisions for key workers, including on childcare and the commitment to ensure that the children of our vital NHS staff can go to nursery or school. However, as my hon. Friends the Members for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) and for Leicester East (Claudia Webbe) said earlier, there is a serious question about the funding. In my local education authority in Redbridge, the council is prepared to meet the free funding places, but as the Secretary of State will know, much of the funding and the business plans that many nurseries have is based on the additional top-up of private places at those nurseries. Can the Secretary of State give more detail about the funding to ensure that that gap is bridged and that nurseries do not have to lay off staff in the midst of dealing this crisis?
Gavin Williamson
This is why we have made clear the continued funding that we would be paying to nurseries, but also why the Chancellor has touched on the issue of a business rate relief, which is obviously an important component in the cost base of many of these nurseries.
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)
As a representative of a borough that has suffered cuts of 64% under this Government, can I ask what additional assistance will be available to Ealing to absorb some of the consequences of this decision? Our libraries, for example, are volunteer-run on reduced hours, when they should be at more than full tilt—or will they be next to close? As the mum of a year 11 pupil, can I also ask whether his exams will now be indefinitely postponed? For all his cohort, can I ask whether their sixth-form admissions, which are not automatic nowadays, will now be based not on actual grades but on predicted grades, in a Mystic Meg kind of way?
Gavin Williamson
As has been outlined, we will ensure that all children, who have done so much work towards their exams both at GCSE and A-level will get a fair system for their grades. We recognise that there will sometimes be disagreement over that, so it is vital to ensure a proper and robust system and a means of redress for those children. That is something that we will have in place with Ofqual, and we have already had those discussions. On funding, we have been consistently clear in this statement that costs incurred by schools will be fully reimbursed.
Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice on an urgent and important matter. On Monday, the Government advised the public to avoid large gatherings and gatherings in smaller public spaces, such as pubs, cinemas, restaurants, theatres, bars and clubs, rather than closing venues directly. The Creative Industries Federation has said that this is a “crippling blow” to the UK’s creative sector, and there was understandable anxiety that it would mean mass bankruptcies and long-term closures of venues. However, the Chancellor reassured us yesterday that insurance companies would help, saying that
“for those businesses that…have a policy that covers pandemics, the Government’s action is sufficient and will allow them to make an insurance claim against their policy”—[Official Report, 17 March 2020; Vol. 637, c. 932.]
He even went so far as to say that the Government had spoken to the insurance sector looking for support, yet many organisations have made representations to me today to say that insurance companies will not permit losses due to the covid-19 pandemic and that no theatre, restaurant, or small or medium-sized enterprise would ever be able to afford that sort of cover—cover usually associated with Apple and big companies like that. Therefore, what advice can you offer me on how Members might seek clarification from Ministers on this crucial issue, which is adding to the anxiety for businesses in the creative industries and more widely?
Mr Speaker
I thank the hon. Lady for giving me notice of her question. She is well aware that it is not a point of order for the Chair, but those on the Treasury Bench will have heard her comments and I would expect some response. Perhaps if we can also work through the Table Office, via email at the moment, or by picking up the phone to speak to someone, that may also help to resolve the situation.
House of Commons Commission
Resolved,
That Sir Charles Walker be appointed to the House of Commons Commission in place of Sir Paul Beresford in pursuance of the House of Commons (Administration) Act 1978, as amended.—(David Rutley.)
Public Accounts Commission
Resolved,
That Mr Richard Bacon, Jack Brereton, Mr Nicholas Brown, Clive Efford, Peter Grant, Sir Edward Leigh and Alan Mak be appointed, and that Douglas Chapman and Julian Knight be discharged as members of the Public Accounts Commission under section 2(2)(c) of the National Audit Act 1983.—(David Rutley.)
Business without Debate
Mr Speaker
With the leave of the House, I will take motions 6 to 9 together.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
Terms and Conditions of Employment
That the draft National Minimum Wage (Amendment) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this House on 27 January, be approved.
That the draft National Minimum Wage (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this House on 11 February, be approved.
Housing
That the draft Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this House on 13 January, be approved.
Local Government
That the draft Buckinghamshire (Structural Changes) (Supplementary Provision and Amendment) Order 2020, which was laid before this House on 24 February, be approved.—(David Rutley.)
Question agreed to.
Mr Speaker
With the leave of the House, I will take motions 10 and 11 together.
Business of the House (24 March)
Ordered,
That at the sitting on Tuesday 24 March, the business determined by the Backbench Business Committee may continue until 7.00pm or for one and a half hours after its commencement, whichever is the later, and shall then lapse if not previously disposed of, and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) will not apply. —(David Rutley.)
Coronavirus Bill
Ordered,
That, if a Bill entitled the Coronavirus Bill is presented and read the first time—
Standing Orders Nos. 83J to 83O (Certification of bills, clauses, schedules etc) shall not apply to the Bill;
notices of Amendments, new Clauses and new Schedules to be moved in Committee in respect of the Bill may be accepted by the Clerks at the Table before it has been read a second time.—(David Rutley.)
Future of Farming: Somerset
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con)
I start my dissertation by firmly apologising to the Minister, who has not had a copy of my speech. I managed to send it to the wrong Minister, so I apologise unreservedly—that just shows quite how incompetent I can be.
Believe it or not, I am very grateful to have this rare opportunity to address the House about a subject that is very close to my heart and that of a lot of Members—farming. As I am talking about farming, I ask the Minister to make sure that we as a Parliament ensure that vets are taken in as key workers. I know that that was not mentioned today by the Prime Minister, and I take this opportunity to put that forward.
Adjournment debates are a bit like Opposition election slogans, especially if you turn them upside down—in our case, it would be, “For the few, not the many”. However, at least the few of us here this evening are demonstrating the best health practices. I am keeping a safe distance from the Minister and I promise that no offence is intended.
This is a difficult time for all of us, I am afraid, farmers included. Let me tell the Minister a bit more about the Bridgwater and West Somerset constituency. At the Bridgwater end, we have some of the lowest-lying farmland in the United Kingdom, and at the West Somerset end, particularly on Exmoor, we have some of the highest. Both areas have faced huge challenges even at the best of times. Down on the levels, we have so far managed to survive the winter without a repeat of the devastating floods that emerged in 17 miles of Somerset six years ago. Back then, the Environment Agency was led by deaf donkeys in blindfolds. It took a great deal of persuasion to convince them that rivers work much better when they are regularly dredged, and I pay enormous tribute to David Cameron for leading that charge. Any of my farmers on the levels could have told them that, and in fact, they did tell them that in no uncertain terms—I went to the meetings.
The thing about farmers is that they know the land. They respect the weather. They understand that climate is changing and that we cannot afford to sit back and do nothing. They, like me, speak their minds. For example, there is genuine concern about the long-term financial commitment to keep Somerset flood-free. Naturally, I am delighted—as is my whole area, and especially the levels—that the Chancellor’s Budget guaranteed proper funding of £114 million for the tidal barrage. That is incredibly welcome, and I thank the team.
But the Minister will be aware of the question mark that continues to hang over the future of the Somerset Rivers Authority. The SRA is a flood prevention organisation. It uses the expertise of local drainage boards and the most clued-up councils, such as Sedgemoor District Council. The authority gets its funding from various public organisations but also, crucially, relies on a precept that is added to council tax. That is rare, but not unusual. Without that tax element, all the ambitious plans to safeguard people from the horrors of flooding would be at risk. As of now, the precept is not enshrined in law. A private Member’s Bill to fix that passed through the House last year, for which I am grateful to colleagues, but it was then sabotaged by the Liberal Democrats in the other place for reasons that I still, to this day, do not understand.
However, the new all-singing, all-dancing Environment Bill could easily be tweaked to ensure that the SRA can raise what it needs through precepts. I hope that the Minister will be in a position—perhaps not now, but in the near future—to give me an indication of how and when that problem could be solved. I would be happy to have a discussion with him about that.
Meanwhile, farmers on the Somerset levels remain understandably anxious, as we all are, over our future trading relations with Europe. This is dairy country—although not exclusively—and the dairy industry is, as one analyst put it recently, “close to broke”. We have one of the largest milk companies in the country, Müller. We are also the home of Yeo Valley. That is why farmers are puzzled and concerned by the decision of the Secretary of State to potentially halt—it depends how we look at it—the culling of badgers in Somerset. I know that it is an emotive subject for all sides, but there is ample evidence that the cull in Somerset is significantly cutting the incidence of tuberculosis and proving its worth. That is because it is being done well. Badgers and their human supporters may take a different view, but I am slightly shocked and worried that the Secretary of State— I say this advisedly—appears to be siding with them.
Dairy farmers, like all farmers, love their animals. They know how bovine TB can rip through a herd. What kind of message are we sending them? The cull has effectively removed a major health risk. The prospect of vaccinations is still too vague and too far away. I wonder whether the Minister understands the economic tightrope that dairy farmers and beef farmers already face. The only way to make any decent money from milk is to turn it into butter, yoghurt and cheese. Many farmers would struggle or go bust if they could not do that.
Despite all the hurdles, Somerset cheese has developed a worldwide reputation, which is fantastic. But that was before this awful virus stopped worldwide travel, crippled airlines and squeezed economies right around the globe. A week or so ago, you could visit the swankiest cheese shop in the swankiest food mall in San Francisco and find an unpasteurised Montgomery’s cheese from Somerset displayed in pride of place. The only complaint the proprietor would have was that he could not get enough of it. Now he would be very lucky to receive any supplies at all.
Cheese makers such as Wyke Farms also export large quantities to Europe—or they did. Even at the best of times, the margins are uncomfortably tight, and these are not the best of times. There is a stupid urban myth about farmers: that they all plead poverty but still find the cash to buy flashy new cars each year. We have all heard that. I can assure the House—I think the House knows it anyway—that that is not true. Every farmer I have ever known works their socks off to break even. They are rightly worried about the impact of new trading hurdle that comes up. The latest threat is to suspend trade at the Sedgemoor auction centre, which is commonly known as junction 24—junction 24 being the junction on the M5. I have to say that that would be a financial disaster for local farmers. The centre attracts entries from all parts of England and Wales. The impact on the rural economy, if it closes, cannot be overstated. Farmers, by and large, buy and sell their animals at auction. That is the way it has always been done, and it would be almost impossible to do so at the end of a computer, even if one could get a connection, and I will come to that in a minute.
I appreciate that tackling the virus is the most urgent national priority, but I ask the Minister to consider whether there are sensible ways in which auction centres such as Sedgemoor can be allowed to continue trading. The public have already been discouraged from attending sales. The organisers are already considering limiting sellers and buyers. They are doing their bit.
I would like to have discussed the issue with Somerset County Council’s—believe it or not—£108,000-a-year director of public health. However, she is hard to reach and appears to be working at home, as indeed, I am afraid, most of our county staff soon will be. It does not inspire much confidence. I would have expected a decent county council to be making information videos, putting up posters and taking advertising space in the local press to keep us informed. In most counties, people are doing it. That is great. I certainly know that they are doing it in Bristol. I am afraid Somerset, with its fat cat top brass, is silent. This disease demands a better response from county councils. It seems that Somerset is wasting time and money on becoming a unitary authority and is not listening to what the people need. I appeal to the leader of Somerset County Council to please stop posturing and get on with the job.
When this dreadful virus is behind us, there is one other thing that farmers fear: a post-Brexit tariff war with Europe. Make no mistake, farming is a vital industry in Somerset. It employs, indirectly and directly, many hundreds of people, but it is forced to look over its shoulder and count the pennies all the time. We are no longer a member of the European Union, but until December we remain in the system, claiming the subsidies and following the rules. All that will change, particularly for farmers who will continue to farm on the uplands of Exmoor.
It has been recognised for the best part of a century that hill farming on Exmoor is viable only because of the subsidy system. Trying to make a living out of some Exmoor farms, if they were unsubsidised, would be like trying to make a living out of a window box. That is flippant, but true. It is not a comfortable living, and I invite any lowland farmer who thinks Exmoor is a featherbed to spend a hard, wet winter high on the moors. This year it has been hard and very wet.
What we get for our money is the preservation of some of the finest landscape anywhere in the United Kingdom—landscape that forms the key attractions of the south-west’s tourism industry. I can show the Minister plenty of evidence that the landscape is the No. 1 reason most people come to Exmoor on holiday, and rightly so. We welcome any Members of the House who want to come and see how beautiful it is. We must support the hill farmers as generously as we do now.
Without the hill farms much of Exmoor would revert to an ugly, unloved wilderness—all scrub and, to paraphrase, tumbleweed. Much of the moor is still a no-go area for any kind of modern communications. There are dead zones for mobile phones and internet speeds can be so slow that it is almost quicker to post a letter. I know that progress has been made and things have improved, but we are still in an unparalleled national crisis and the Government want people to work from home. That is rightly so and totally supported by the House, but we need a technical taskforce to be able to create a quick fix for Exmoor and other cut-off rural parts. Across the United Kingdom, broadband is a necessity. It is a miracle that our hill farmers continue to put up with it. Thank heavens they do.
Those who want the land to go back to the wild are not living in the real world. Rewilding may be a fashionable fiction in “The Archers”, but it is make-believe for places such as Exmoor. In any case, only proper farmers can make it work. They have to work the land, not learn it in a book. That is why I want the new Agriculture Bill to match every EU subsidy pound for pound, improve the way that farmers are paid and protect the quality of British products against foreign competition. I do not believe we should tolerate the importing of inferior goods with lower standards than our own. There is a long way to go before the new Bill is passed, and I would like the Minister’s assurance that there is still time for constructive change. I am sure that there will be in Committee.
I have asked a lot in this short debate—
Mr Liddell-Grainger
That will teach me to watch the time more carefully.
I have asked a lot in this short debate. In the weeks and months ahead, farmers will become more important to us all. We will rely on what they produce in ways that we have probably never considered but now need to because we are in a national emergency.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
I have read that Somerset County Council has sold off nearly two thirds of its agricultural land in the past decade. The Agriculture Bill Committee is looking at how we can better support county farms, which the Government have promised to do in the past. Does the hon. Gentleman think it is a real shame that the council no longer owns those farms, which often provided an entry to farming for people who could not afford to buy huge swathes of land themselves?
Mr Liddell-Grainger
The hon. Lady knows me well—she tempts me, and I will rise to the bait. Yes, it is appalling that the council sold them off. I was totally against their being sold off. County farms were the way that young people got into farming—the way people could get on the farming ladder. The farms were not big—they were comparatively small—but they gave people a chance. Any county that sold them off is an absolute disgrace. Yes, of course, I know that they wanted the money, but we have stopped an entire generation of young people going into farming. I am 61, and the average age of farmers is my age. How long can we sustain real farmers? I do not think that the Government can be blamed for that—although I would probably quite like to blame them, they cannot be blamed—because it was done under many different Governments over many years. Places like Somerset, the old county of which we were all part in the old days, had a huge amount of farms, and they were enormous and did such a good job. They have gone over a long time, covering three generations—basically since 1945—but the hon. Lady makes an absolutely fair point and I agree with her.
I have one final appeal to the Minister. Sedgemoor auction centre is crucial to farmers, as it is—believe it or not—to all of us here. Whatever our party, whatever our age and however much we are at risk, just being here shows that we are still in session. We must support that and stay in business here, and that goes for our farmers, too: they want to stay in business there.
The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury (James Morris)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater and West Somerset (Mr Liddell-Grainger) for securing this important debate and for his contribution. He is a passionate advocate for his constituents.
We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to strike a balance that works for our independent country—to let go of the railings of the sinking ship that is the EU’s highly bureaucratic common agricultural policy and its irrational system of area-based payments. I also recognise, as my hon. Friend said, that the farming sector currently faces huge challenges with the coronavirus crisis. Our environmental land management scheme will reward farmers for the vital environmental work that they do alongside feeding the nation, helping us to meet the targets that we will set through our Environment Bill so that we can fulfil our legally binding commitment to reach net zero by 2050 and leave the environment in a better state than we found it in.
We are working with farmers, foresters and land managers to make sure that we design a much better way of doing things that works as well on farms up and down the country as it does on paper. Forty trials are live in the first phase and a further 25 will follow in the second. Somerset is clearly part of that collaboration, and it will be critical to getting our policies absolutely right. The farming and wildlife advisory group in the south-west is helping us to consider an approach to paying farmers for their work on floodplain land and water management, and we will continue to refine our systems together over the coming months.
We are optimistic and we are aiming high, so that we create a coherent policy, designed for our farmers, which rewards them properly for their work to improve the environment, creating new habitats, reducing flooding and helping to tackle climate change, and enables them to become more profitable by investing in new equipment, adding value to their product and improving transparency in the supply chain. That is our approach—tackling the causes of poor profitability, not masking them with an arbitrary area-based subsidy, so that farms of every size and in every part of our country, including Somerset, have a chance to thrive. The smaller firms that my hon. Friend mentioned should feel equally optimistic about the opportunities this bespoke way of doing things will bring for their businesses.
Our food reflects who we are as a country. We care about animals hugely, including farm animals, and we value the high-quality, high-welfare, sustainably produced food and drink that we are fortunate to enjoy at home and that is recognised all around the world, including Somerset’s finest. My hon. Friend talked of some of the challenges faced by the producers, but it is fair to say that Somerset has been making cheddar since at least the 12th century, and what could be more quintessentially British than a hunk of west country farmhouse cheddar, washed down with a cold glass of Somerset cider brandy?
This Government will always back British farmers, who are some of the very best in the world, taking care of our landscapes and animals, all while feeding the nation, just as they have done for generation after generation. This is a time of opportunity, but I recognise the challenges for UK agriculture. We understand that these changes can be daunting, as well as presenting opportunity, and we are conscious that farmers need time to plan and adapt for their futures, and support to decide what is right for them and for their business. We will match 2019 levels in every year of this Parliament.
As my hon. Friend mentioned, our Agriculture Bill is making its way through Parliament, and our aim is that it will reach Royal Assent by the summer. This is of vital importance to the agriculture sector, in order to begin a fair, progressive, seven-year transition to a much better way of doing things in 2027.
My hon. Friend made several points in his remarks. On the Somerset Rivers Authority, I will write to him about the implications he described. He mentioned the badger cull, and I will talk to the Secretary of State about the points he raised about that and about the Sedgemoor auction centre, in the context of contingency planning for the coronavirus. He made some remarks about the challenges of upland farming. It is fair to say that the Government are confident that within the new scheme being outlined in the Agriculture Bill, upland farmers will stand to benefit considerably from the new arrangements that the Government are introducing in the Bill.
I would like to close by making this important point. Sustainable farming and food production can and, indeed, must go hand in hand. No one understands this better than our farmers right across the country. After all, the great outdoors is their office, day in and day out. After a hot summer and an incredibly wet winter, they are the first to feel the effects of climate change in our countryside, and they are hungry for change. This is our chance to do things differently and put our farmers, such as those in Somerset, at the very heart of our efforts to tackle the causes and consequences of climate change in a way that helps nature recover too. I hope that hon. Members will all support the ambitious Agriculture Bill currently making its way through this place, so that we can chart a new course for English agriculture for decades to come and a new way of doing things for the world to follow.
Question put and agreed to.