Statutory Sick Pay and Protection for Workers
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
Read Full debate
The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Justin Tomlinson)
We are in extraordinary times. The coronavirus pandemic is the most serious public health emergency that our nation has faced for a generation, but the Government will do whatever it takes to get our nation through it. We all need to pull together. We can, must and will get through this.
Before I proceed to the main part of my speech, I want to pay tribute to all our fantastic staff, particularly those on the front line who are doing their level best, where they can, to enable some of the most vulnerable people in society to continue to receive benefits, and to enable those who now need to gain access to those benefits to do so. The spirit of this debate shows Parliament at its best—we are all seeking to work in partnership.
These are uncharted times, and there are new things coming forward. I have talked to lots of stakeholders in the past few days as we have made announcements about our Department. In normal times, we could spend 18 months developing policies—testing them, carrying out engagement up and down the country, and talking to people with real-life experiences to make sure there are no unintended consequences—but we are on a daily basis having to review things. It is a credit to the Opposition that this debate is being conducted in a spirit of partnership, so that we can look at and feed in things that need to be considered to provide further support—I know that more support will come forward on a daily basis.
Our policy is to protect lives and fight this virus with everything we have. Everyone should follow Government guidance to control the spread of the disease. Those who have a high temperature or a new contagious cough, and those who share a home with people presenting these symptoms, should stay at home in self-isolation for 14 days. Everyone should avoid unnecessary travel and social contact with others, and people who can do so should work from home. That will help to protect the NHS and safeguard the most vulnerable.
I reassure the House that the Government will provide a safety net and support for individuals during this testing time. Everybody will be supported to do the right thing, and the Government will help employers to support their employees to do the right thing.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Minister is very dutiful in doing his job, for which I thank him, but I have had contact today from a mother who is isolating because of her child. Is she eligible for sick pay from the Government, or does she have to take unpaid dependants’ leave, which would be very unfair? Just how can that work?
Justin Tomlinson
When people in work are isolating due to Government guidance, which seems to be the case in the circumstances that the hon. Gentleman describes, they would be eligible for statutory sick pay through their employers. In addition, it is always worth their looking on gov.uk to see whether they can get additional support through the welfare system, whether universal credit or new-style ESA.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Like the Minister and other hon. Members, I am looking to be collaborative, as I generally try to be, particularly in this type of circumstance, but the issue raised by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) typifies the confusion surrounding the guidance and support for people, which was why my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) recommended at Prime Minister’s questions some form of minimum income guarantee that would cover all these issues and mean that people could just do what is right at the right time without having to worry about the financial consequences. Is the Department looking at that?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman. I have said many times at the Dispatch Box that I admire the way that he contributes and offers support in trying to help some of the most vulnerable people in society. There were two aspects to his question, the first of which was about general communication. These are fast-moving events, and all constituency MPs are getting a lot of correspondence that asks very reasonable questions. We are trying to give answers that are as good as possible, but we really have to keep pushing people towards the gov.uk website, on which there is consistent communication. On the second point about a minimum net, that is where the welfare system comes into play, because statutory sick pay—it is important, and I will go over that—applies in only some cases, whereas the welfare safety net applies to all who need it.
Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)
I believe the Minister will know that cross-party working is in my DNA, and I really do want to do everything I can to make sure we get this right. This is a personal but pertinent point: my son Stuart is self-employed; he has a wife who has had dialysis since she was 14, and a 10-year-old son, Liam. They are all self-isolating; Stuart does not have an income. They live in rented accommodation and utilities are essential to keep the dialysis going. I have a very frightened family and very many frightened constituents. We would be most grateful for any clarification on what we can do.
Justin Tomlinson
I have worked very closely with the hon. Lady on a number of issues, and I know that she is held in huge respect across both sides of the House.
Prior to being an MP, I ran my own business, so I understand the concerns of self-employed people who have suddenly overnight seen dramatic changes to their cash flow and ability to trade as a business. I absolutely understand the worries that people will have, which is why we are allowing access to statutory sick pay or, depending on people’s personal circumstances, looking at whether they can turn to new-style ESA—the contributory benefit—which is probably the case for the self-employed, or the wider support offer through universal credit and the welfare net. People would need to look at their circumstances and talk to the jobcentres. We are all trying to do our best to provide as much certainty as possible, as quickly as possible, through the daily updates.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Minister will know that many people are really worried about the financial impact of self-isolation, whether they are sick or not. He has mentioned sick pay a few times and the alternatives of universal credit and ESA, but those sums simply will not pay the rent or the bills, or put food on the table. The Minister also mentioned the speed at which action is needed and how much faster his Department is having to react then normal. If it takes till next week to put in place legislation, many more people will have not taken action to protect themselves and everybody else. Action is needed now and people need the money now. Will he please respond on that point?
Justin Tomlinson
I absolutely understand the point that the hon. Member makes. These are extraordinary times, and collectively we are all trying to identify the right levels of support as quickly as possible. In pure cash terms, the fiscal support that we have already provided at this stage of the curve is almost the highest around the world, but this is not complete. As events progress, we have to do more and we can expect more announcements. I understand that in an ideal world we could announce everything straight away, but we have to make sure that it is right, we have to react as things come forward, and we have to communicate as quickly and clearly as possible. We do understand that.
Justin Tomlinson
Let me make a little progress, because I think I am about to cover some of the things being asked about. I promise that I will take more interventions.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, which is why we have extended statutory sick pay to those who are self-isolating in line with the latest Government health guidance. The guidance is available online on gov.uk and ensures that eligible individuals, whether they are sick or self-isolating, will be entitled to statutory sick pay if they are unable to work because they are following Government advice.
The upcoming emergency Bill will mean that for people affected by coronavirus, statutory sick pay will be payable from day one, instead of day four, and currently it will be backdated to 13 March. We removed those waiting days to get support to people as quickly as possible. These are crucial measures to ensure that employees do not attend work when they should stay at home to help to keep themselves and others safe. The circumstances are exceptional and we urge employers to do the right thing, use their discretion and respect the medical need to self-isolate.
Statutory sick pay is a legal minimum, and employers can offer more. Where possible, employers should support their employees to work from home to help to slow the spread of the virus. If employers do feel the need to require evidence, people who are advised to self-isolate for coronavirus will soon be able to obtain an alternative to the fit note by contacting NHS 111 rather than visiting a doctor. We are all aware of the need to protect GP surgeries so that they can concentrate on key areas of work.
Accordingly, the Government will ensure that businesses are supported to deal with the temporary economic impact of the outbreak of coronavirus. Small and medium-sized enterprises are at the heart of our economy, symbolising the hard work and enterprising spirit of our nation. To support such employers with the increased costs of sick pay, the emergency Bill will provide that employers with fewer than 250 employees can reclaim up to two weeks’ statutory sick pay for sickness absences related to coronavirus. That includes those who are required to self-isolate in line with Government guidance. The measure could provide more than £2 billion of support for up to 2 million businesses, and will be crucial to ensure that our economy keeps running.
The measure on statutory sick pay is in addition to others to support businesses that were outlined by the Chancellor yesterday: £330 billion of Government-backed and guaranteed loans; additional cash grants of up to £25,000 for businesses in the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors with a rateable value of less than £51,000; and cash grants of £10,000 to 700,000 of our smaller businesses. The Government will do whatever it takes to support our economy.
Of course, not everyone is eligible for statutory sick pay, which is paid by employers. Gig workers and those on zero-hours contracts may be entitled to sick pay, and should check with their employer, but millions of hard-working people who are self-employed or in the gig economy will need our help, too. That is why we are making it easier to access benefits during this period.
The shadow Secretary of State talked about disability benefits and the announcement that we made earlier this week. The first decision was to remove face-to-face assessments, because we recognise that a significant proportion of those who could be claiming disability benefits are vulnerable. We want to avoid them needing to travel unnecessarily and to sit in busy waiting rooms, so we decided to stop face-to-face assessments. However, we do not want to stop new people gaining access to the support that they are entitled to, so we are seeking to continue to do paper-based and telephone reviews, but prioritising those who are new claimants, and looking at the workforce on a daily basis.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
I very much agree with the policy that the Minister is setting out. Will he clarify the intention for reassessments? He will know that Mind and one or two others have suggested that reassessments ought not to go ahead at the moment, partly because it is very difficult for people to get medical evidence in support of their reassessment claim at a time when doctors are very busy with something else.
Justin Tomlinson
I absolutely understand that point, and the right hon. Member and I discussed it when we first made the announcement. The absolute priority has to be new claimants who are seeking to get support through the disability benefit system, so we are looking on a daily basis at what we can do. I do not envisage that we will be able to do much beyond that, but I want to make sure that new claimants can get support. That was why, at the beginning of my speech, I paid tribute to the fantastic work of those who are working on the frontline, who—like all people—are anxious about events, but are still, when they can, coming in to make sure that the vulnerable people in society can access the support that they are entitled to.
Chi Onwurah
I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. He talks about statutory sick pay as part of the safety net. As such, he recognises that, as a safety net, it is a benefit of last resort, and he talks about the way in which companies can offer more. Does he therefore recognise that in this unprecedented situation, when so many people are likely to find themselves—either by choosing to self-isolate or being obliged to—in the position of claiming statutory sick pay, the level is not appropriate to drive the right behaviours or support people? It is no longer a question of last resort, but of supporting significant proportions of our population, so sick pay needs to be at a higher level.
Justin Tomlinson
I am not the Secretary of State—it is very kind of the hon. Member to elevate me to such a lofty position, but that does not apply. The broader point is that the Chancellor has made it very clear that we will continue, on a daily basis, to look at what additional support there can be. The Government will do what we need to do to protect the vulnerable in society and keep our economy going. Many Members will raise very important points in the debate but, as a broad principle, the safety net is wider welfare support, looking at an individual’s personal circumstances, and tailoring the level of support to them so that we can target help to the most vulnerable in society.
Those not eligible for sick pay, including the self-employed, are able to make a claim for universal credit or contributory employment and support allowance. Last week, we laid regulations to ensure that the contributory ESA is now payable from day one, removing the seven-day waiting period for people who are self-isolating on Government guidance or who are ill with coronavirus. Claims can also be made over the phone without the need for people to contact their doctor for a fit note. Those in self-isolation or sick with coronavirus who make a claim for universal credit can receive up to a month’s advance up front without physically attending a jobcentre. Everything can be done by phone or online, and that is a welcome position.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
What metrics has the Minister adopted to ensure that phone calls are dealt with in a timely manner? There are always complaints about people having to ring and ring, but not getting an answer.
Justin Tomlinson
We anticipate unprecedented demand, which is part of the reason why we have looked at the work that we no longer need to do during this period—for example, there was the announcement on ending face-to-face assessments for disability benefits—so that we can move health professionals on to the telephone systems to make sure that we can cope with demand and remove the need for people to unnecessarily visit jobcentres. We are keeping a very close eye on that on a day-to-day basis.
We are also removing the minimum income floor for self-employed universal credit claimants who have to self-isolate or who become ill as a result of coronavirus during this period. We are taking those measures to ensure that people are supported throughout this difficult period. We have increased access to sick pay, made it easier to access benefits and provided support for businesses to protect people’s jobs. This is a comprehensive package of support for some of the most vulnerable in society, but we are continuing to look at it by the day. The Chancellor has made it clear that there will be further announcements.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Two of my constituents who were both self-employed have had all their contracts brought to an end. They have a mortgage and two young children. Not surprisingly, as in many cases that hon. Members have raised, they are worried for the future. What support should I tell them the Government will make available to help their specific situation?
Justin Tomlinson
We are all hearing similar queries as constituency MPs. The key is for people to keep looking at gov.uk as announcements are made each day so that they have clarity about what they can and cannot get. The hon. Member talked about his constituents having a mortgage; obviously, we have already made the announcement about support for a mortgage holiday to protect people.
Part of the next step of our plan is to focus on providing support for people’s income and jobs. There will be further announcements, which will be shaped by all of us. As we flag up the issues being brought to our inboxes, that will help to shape the response. This is Parliament at its best, through partnership working. I hope that all hon. Members will give their full support to all the work that we and all our fantastic frontline staff are doing.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)
First, let me thank all Members from across the House who have taken the time to attend this important debate, and to speak about their concerns in such a constructive and collaborative way. I will try to answer as many of the numerous points raised as possible, but I stress that—as hon. Members know—my door is always open and my phone is always on. If Members have urgent cases, please reach out to me and other Ministers on the Treasury Bench; we will look to take the appropriate action, as necessary.
As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor made clear yesterday, we will do whatever it takes to support people, jobs and businesses, and to help people to protect their loved ones. This includes the measures we are taking on statutory sick pay, in order to ensure that everybody is supported to do the right thing and follow the Government advice on self-isolation. We must come together to fight this virus and protect the most vulnerable, and statutory sick pay is part of our welfare safety net and our wider Government offer to support people in times of need. That is why we are ensuring that our welfare safety net provides the right level of support in these exceptional times. We have extended statutory sick pay to those who are self-isolating, in line with the latest Government health guidance, and the upcoming emergency Bill will make statutory sick pay payable from day one instead of day four. This is the right thing to do to ensure that eligible individuals are supported to stay at home in self-isolation, protecting themselves and others.
As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out, the Government will stand behind businesses, both large and small. As a DWP Minister, I know that the best way to support people is through protecting their jobs. Small and medium-sized businesses are the backbone of our economy, and we will support them to implement these measures. Employers with fewer than 250 employees will be able to reclaim up to two weeks’ statutory sick pay paid for sickness absences relating to the coronavirus—a measure that could help up to 2 million businesses. These changes will help to provide certainty and security for individuals and businesses affected by coronavirus.
Statutory sick pay is just one of the Government’s offers of support and protection. The safety net also extends to those who are self-employed or who work in the gig economy. Workers on zero-hours contracts or in the gig economy may be eligible for sick pay and should check with their employers, but we are here to support those who are not eligible, and they can make a claim for universal credit or contributory employment and support allowance. Last week, we made changes so that the seven waiting days for employment and support allowance for new claimants affected by coronavirus or required to self-isolate will not apply. That means that ESA is payable from day one, without the need to provide medical evidence and without the need to attend a work capability assessment. Those required to self-isolate or who are ill with coronavirus can receive up to a month’s advance from day one, with no need to physically attend a jobcentre—that point was raised by Opposition Members. Any individuals affected by coronavirus will have their work search and work availability requirements switched off, and affected self-employed claimants will not have a minimum income floor applied during this period.
A number of specific points have been raised, and I will try to cover as many as possible. The hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) raised the important point about the communication of changes. Everything is on gov.uk, and Departments also use social media, such as Twitter, to highlight changes. There are also daily press conferences where updates on coronavirus are given by the Prime Minister, and he is increasingly being accompanied by another member of the Cabinet. However, I take the hon. Gentleman’s point that communications in times like this are incredibly important, and I will certainly feed back to the Cabinet Office that where improvements can be made to Government communications, particularly for businesses—that is the point he made—that should be done.
Bill Esterson
I am grateful for that answer, and I know the Minister will do his best to carry out what he just promised. Will he also make sure that that information comes to us and to local authorities in a timely fashion, as we are often in a position to get it out to a great number of people in a short space of time?
Will Quince
I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that case. I know from my postbag and email account that a number of businesses and individuals affected, who are concerned on health grounds or who have concerns about their employment or financial status, will contact their Member of Parliament. We are not always the first port of call—we are sometimes the last—but we are one where people expect to be able to get a response quickly, so I will look at what further guidance and advice we can give to Members of this House and through local authorities. That point about getting the message out to local authorities may well have been heard, because the relevant Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) , is sitting on the Treasury Bench behind me.
The hon. Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) raised the point about SSP and the rebate for employees, and whether that could be for more than two weeks. I understand the point she is making. The current Government advice is for people to self-isolate for seven days or for 14 days if in a household, so we feel that the two-week limit on rebates is a proportionate response. She also asked why SSP is not at the same rate as the living wage. The current system is designed to balance support for the individual with the costs to the employer. As the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work mentioned at the beginning of this debate, we have put £1 billion into the welfare system to provide additional financial security for people, and people on low income can get a top-up, where applicable, through UC.
Numerous hon. Members, including the hon. Members for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) and for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), raised a point about the private rented sector. Today at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister did say that we will be bringing forward legislation to protect private renters from eviction, and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government is considering whether we need to go further on that point.
The right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) both raised a point about the consultation on the lower earnings limit. Our immediate concern in dealing with the covid-19 outbreak is to ensure that a suitable financial safety net is in place, and the benefits system does provide that. We estimate that about 60% of people earning below the lower earnings limit are already in receipt of benefits. Our longer-term aim in that consultation was about preserving the link between the employer and the employee so that the individual receives appropriate support upon return to work. That is less relevant when most people are facing short periods away from work. I or the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work would be happy to meet those Members at a later point to discuss that further.
Numerous hon. Members asked why the focus so far has been on businesses and has not just been about individuals. It is so important that organisations are able to carry on trading, which is why the initial focus of Her Majesty’s Treasury has been on supporting business and keeping people in work where it is sensible and appropriate, based on Government guidance, to do so. Ultimately, that protects so many individuals in our society, but of course we are also looking at other measures for workers.
The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), the right hon. Member for East Ham and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts all made the point about raising the level of statutory sick pay. We continue to look at other support for workers to see what best mechanisms are available. Thankfully, a period of absence is likely to be short—we believe between seven and 14 days—but we know that some may need extra support, as Members across the Chamber have said. We know that low-paid workers are likely to be receiving additional support through universal credit, for example, and the advantage of universal credit is that it will go up if income falls to the equivalent SSP level.
Rachel Reeves
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for addressing the points that hon. Members have made. It is true that people will not have to take that long off to self-isolate for their recovery, but overall, there is likely to be a suppression of demand in the economy for a longer period. The idea that people may be off work for only one or two weeks is fine if that is for health reasons, but if it is because their business is closed or there is just not work available, it is likely to be a lot longer. That is the point that many Members have been trying to make.
Will Quince
I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. I reassure Members that the Government are doing all they can to ensure that everybody is supported to do the right thing. It is crucial that everyone follows the Government guidance on self-isolation—that has been clear throughout the debate—to protect themselves and others. The measures that we have announced and will put forward in the emergency Bill will support people to do so.
To come directly to the hon. Lady’s point, the Chancellor has announced that in the coming days the Government will go much further to support people’s financial security, working with trade unions—another point made by the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra)—and businesses to urgently develop new forms of employment support to help to protect people’s jobs and incomes through this period. I know that the hon. Lady would like to tempt me to go further but, as I think she will understand, that is somewhat above my pay grade. It is very important, however, that debates such as this take place, because it will have been heard by Her Majesty’s Treasury and will be taken in the spirit of working collaboratively on a cross-party basis. I certainly take those ideas on board, and if Members have further ideas about how we can better support some of the most vulnerable people in our society, my door is always open, and I would welcome them coming forward with those.
The right hon. Member for East Ham, the Chair of the Select Committee, raised the point about the habitual residence test. The test has operational procedures already in place to expedite confirmation of eligibility, but I will take this point away and give it further thought—I had not given it consideration before he raised it and I would be very happy to meet him to discuss it further.
We have a safety net that helps people facing hardship if they cannot work or are seeking work. Depending on their individual circumstances, employees can claim universal credit and/or new-style ESA or JSA. As the Prime Minister set out, the Government will keep everything under review. The package that was set out at the Budget and the new measures that were recently announced should give some reassurance that support will be provided to support jobs, income and businesses. As the Chancellor said, we will do “whatever it takes”.
We are in extraordinary times. The coronavirus pandemic is the most serious public health emergency that our nation has faced for a generation. Our policy is to protect lives and fight this virus with everything we have, and the Government have been clear in their approach: we will do whatever it takes to get the nation through these testing times. We will protect people, their jobs and businesses through this period to ensure that we keep as many people as safe as possible.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the matter of Statutory Sick Pay and protection available for all workers.