Commons Chamber

Thursday 24th April 2025

(began 6 months, 1 week ago)

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Abena Oppong-Asare Portrait Ms Abena Oppong-Asare MP, The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Erith and Thamesmead, Labour)
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planning across the local sector and I'm also keen to make sure it is targeted in the right way and we must make sure all the different agencies have a shared understanding of the risks that we face as a country and what the latest updates are on those. Can the Minister explain when the government will be updating the national register and what plans the Minister has for the frequency of the updates are published moving forward? Speak I thank the honourable member for his work in this space.

I know he has done a lot of work in it. We are constantly updating the risk register. We are carrying out a resilience review and the honourable member would now that we are making sure, as he pointed out, that we are sure, as he pointed out, that we are working across the wide range of the sector to make sure wider society plays a greater role and part of the work I've been doing is meeting with businesses, voluntary organisations, vulnerable groups, to make sure those issues are reflected and we are also making sure we sure that in due course with the House in terms of the lessons we learn and I want

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to engage with parliamentarians on this issue as well. In the last few weeks, Dorset has been ravaged by wildfires, been ravaged by wildfires, especially in Upton, my area, with especially in Upton, my area, with more than 130 acres and I was blown away by the local fire crews and I away by the local fire crews and I away by the local fire crews and I ask the Minister to thank the combined work of these fire services and acknowledge there must be a review of funding for emergency review of funding for emergency services to ensure they are consistent to protect us in the face of climate change and I would like to ask for that assurance.



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I would like to think -- thank

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I would like to think -- thank the honourable member and I want to the honourable member and I want to put my thanks for emergency services on the record. They have been doing a lot of work on the ground, particularly for a local resilience forums and I thank you for the work she has done as a local MP. As part she has done as a local MP. As part of the resilience review we are looking at the issues she has raised and working collaboratively across departments to make sure the climate
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dozens of new quangos? This is another debate that
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None Portrait Q6. What steps he is taking to strengthen cooperation with the devolved governments. (903711)
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headcount during the years of the party opposite being in power. We believe that some of that can be
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Nick Thomas-Symonds Portrait Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, The Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Torfaen, Labour)
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government through the Cabinet Office regularly supplies data to the European Union about the number and type of checks conducted at the border. But refuses to provide that data to members of this House. When I was a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the oversight Ireland Assembly, and the oversight of those checks lay with the local department, I was able to require department, I was able to require that, but now it is under DEFRA, members of this House who ask this members of this House who ask this question get a refusal of an answer.

Why is that? Why is that? I am happy to look into the matter the honourable gentleman raises. I very much hope that we can secure an agreement that will reduce the number of checks on the Irish

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Sea. The 36th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster came and went Hillsborough disaster came and went over recess. Also over recess we saw rumours in the media that the rumours in the media that the government is committing to the Hillsborough law. Can the Minister

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explain the government thinking? I pay tribute to the families

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I pay tribute to the families campaigning over so many years. The government is committed to bringing government is committed to bringing in a Hillsborough law, but it is really important that we do work closely with the families to ensure that we get this right and that is what we will do.
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if he will make a statement on the talks held yesterday in London on the war in Ukraine
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That completes questions. We will We now We now come We now come to We now come to the We now come to the Urgent We now come to the Urgent Question. We now come to the Urgent Question.
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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To ask the Foreign Secretary to make a statement on the talks, in London yesterday, on the war in Ukraine.

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I thank the honourable lady for her question and the ironclad her question and the ironclad support for Ukraine. We remain fully committed to working with Ukraine and our international partners to and our international partners to secure a just and lasting peace. Our support is ironclad. Representatives support is ironclad. Representatives of the UK, France, Germany and the United States convened in London United States convened in London yesterday with Ukraine for another round of intensive talks following up on the meeting in Paris last up on the meeting in Paris last week.

All parties reiterated their strong support for Pres Trump's commitment to stopping the killing and achieving a just and lasting peace. The talks were productive and made our next steps, and all agreed to continue their close coordination. I look forward to further talks soon. The Foreign Secretary had bilateral discussions and remains in close contact with counterparts to give further details, and I hope the right honourable lady will understand this as it will only benefit Putin. We condemn Russia's most retail missile and drone attacks on civilians including overnight, and our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones at this tragic time.

These are simply shocking scenes and they come on the back of shocking scenes in Kiev, Sumi and other locations across Ukraine in recent days, and I would remind the house that while Ukraine has been in peace talks, Russia has continued these severe attacks including last night, and that is a stark reminder of the continued bloodshed perpetrated by Putin. I witnessed the terrible situation just weeks the terrible situation just weeks ago when I visited just hours before I arrived, and not just those killings but the shocking situation when it comes to the abduction of children and the intent to wipe out Ukrainian culture and Putin's demands remain undiminished.

We are clear about that. President Zelenskyy has shown his commitment to peace. Pres Putin must now agree to a full and immediate ceasefire without conditions as Ukraine has done. We will not stop all the

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parties in that end. For all the talks taking place,

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For all the talks taking place, it is concerning that a clear unified front in support of Ukraine has yet to emerge. The Minister has yet to emerge. The Minister mentioned the statement which consists of three sentences, that consists of three sentences, that the talks are successful in reaching the talks are successful in reaching a common proposal. Can the Minister tell us exactly what was productive tell us exactly what was productive and successful about these talks, and what the next steps actually are, and whether Ukraine is in agreement.

Where security governments made? Was the U.K.'s long-standing position of supporting Ukraine's accession to NATO discussed, and following the apparent missile strike last night in Kiev which killed more innocent civilians, does he believe that Putin is committed to a just and fair end to this conflict? Can the Minister confirm whether the status of invaded and occupied places were discussed and what the UK government position is. The UK was the strongest advocate for Ukraine regaining all the territory taken by force by Putin and for Putin to lose this war.

Is this still the case? There is much debate about ending the war, but this war was started by Putin, a vile autocrat who is being propped up by an access democracy in our own continent and by those who are opposed. We need the government to be leveraging British influence in Ukraine, battling the national order by force. I condemn the function of Russia, and to those colleagues, I will say this. It shows you on the right side of history and that we must always
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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proceeds from Chelsea FC made available for Ukraine? Can the Minister explain why the 2.6 billion Minister explain why the 2.6 billion loan to Ukraine backed by the assets has been paid for three years rather has been paid for three years rather than in full now, and finally, what more can be done to mobilise British technology which can be cheap and technology which can be cheap and quickly applied to adopt Ukraine's

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military efforts? Well, thank you. I think the lady

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Well, thank you. I think the lady for her questions and her continued support and unity on these issues. It is a crucial signal that we send It is a crucial signal that we send across this house, not only to our friends in Ukraine, but to Putin. friends in Ukraine, but to Putin. This house will not be devised on these issues. I collapse reassure these issues. I collapse reassure her of her commitment to Ukraine and her of her commitment to Ukraine and ministerial contact over weeks.

ministerial contact over weeks. Contact remains at every level. She asked me a number of specific questions, but I'm afraid I am not going to go into the detail of the discussions yesterday. She will understand that. I know she has a job to do but she will understand why that is necessary. I agree with the points about sanctions and this is just par for the course when it comes to Putin and his regime. She asked about what we're doing on sanctions.

Our commitment to sanctions remains undiminished. We are going to continue to maintain pressure across every level and we are ramping up the pressure. Today, we have announced new sanctions including the re-purpose involved game console controllers to kill Ukrainians by Russia and we are taking robust action not only directly to choke off the Russian war machine but also when it comes to 2nd country circumvention is, and I have spent a lot of time on this issue. She asks about situation in Chelsea, but I refer to my previous comments.

We are working at pace to meet the agreements made on that. She put about the accelerator Lane and the first tranche of that has been dispersed. I talked about this with the Prime Minister a few weeks ago for they have access I'm happy to write to her separately about the details in which the tranches will be paid. There is absolutely no softening of our commitment to the coalition of the willing and the Foreign Secretary met with counterparts last week underlining our shared commitment, so we are leading the coalition to defend Ukraine security.

We will not get into operational detail. She asks about Crimea. The U.K.'s position regarding sovereignty is well-known and our position has not changed. We do not recognise Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and on what terms this war comes to an end can only be decided by negotiations with Ukraine

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at the heart of them. Does the Minister agree that, as one of the individuals who were sanctioned yesterday by the Kremlin, that if Putin is serious about that if Putin is serious about securing any sort of lasting peace in Ukraine, he should stop performative sanctioning of performative sanctioning of democratic elected members of this house and focus on stopping the murderous, barbaric killing of civilians in Ukraine and stop the civilians in Ukraine and stop the invasion of that nation that we stand within.

Or.

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I utterly condemn members of this house, including my honourable friend. I am on that list to as are many other members. It is many other members. It is unacceptable but we are clear on that. I think he rightly points out the very nature of Russia's examples the very nature of Russia's examples in recent days. The horrific tax, the deaths, the killing, the the deaths, the killing, the aggression. Russia was the aggressor aggression. Russia was the aggressor

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Overnight, Russia launched 11 ballistic missiles and nearly 200 ballistic missiles and nearly 200 cruise muscles and joints at civilian targets. The talks in London should have been about increasing support for Ukraine but increasing support for Ukraine but instead they were revealed by resident Trump and he made a resident Trump and he made a resident Trump and he made a petulant response to the refusal of Volodymyr Zelenskyy to categorise the west of Crimea as Russia. Trump demonstrated he is not interested in demonstrated he is not interested in a just peace which would deter future Russian aggression, instead, he is content to carve up Ukraine with Putin.

Will the Minister make clear to his US counterpart that the apparent ultimatum delivered last week is utterly wrong and will only embolden future Russian aggression? Having found myself on the list of MPs from across the House being MPs from across the House being sanctioned by the Kremlin, but the government outlined how it plans to support members who have been targeted for speaking out? targeted for speaking out? I welcome the continued support of his party for the united front on Ukraine but I do not recognise the characterisation of the talks yesterday because they were constructive and involved the United States.

We are in regular contact with US counterparts and Secretary of State Marco Rubio recognised what we were doing and the Prime Minister has spoken with President Trump in recent days and the Foreign Secretary also with his counterpart only want to bring this war to an end. We are working with all of our allies including the US on plans to stop the fighting. We wouldn't agreement with all of us on that. We are working closely with President Trump in that regard. We are clear that the voice of Ukraine must be at the heart of any talks and we warmly welcome the agreements and discussions between the US and Ukraine and ultimately the ball is Ukraine and ultimately the ball is in the court of President Putin and instead he continues to fire missiles and cause the destruction missiles and cause the destruction and killing the honourable gentleman highlighted.

It is terrific and the responsibility lies with one person, Vladimir Putin. -- It is horrific. Vladimir Putin. -- It is horrific. I associate myself with the comments made by the Minister about the attacks on Ukraine and I thank him for his statement. Could he update the House and the support To Ukrainian people in the UK including the Ukrainian community in Redding? Speak amok he references Ukrainian communities across the UK. I have a Ukrainian community in my own constituency and this week I met with committee members to discuss a range of issues and we talked about range of issues and we talked about the horrific abduction of children that Russia continues to perpetrate which is one of the most heinous aspects of the conflict.

I'm proud of what British communities have done across the country to support Ukrainians and the huge ties that have been built up and it is fantastic we have signed the partnership for 100 years because this is about relationship and support and also 100 years into the future at every level, economically, diplomatically, militarily, and with people, crucially.
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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treating Ukraine as the aggressor? Will the Minister remind US negotiators that together with the UK, the USA signed the Caressed -- Bucharest Memorandum ensuring the Bucharest Memorandum ensuring the independence when that country sacrifice unilateralist position as

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sacrifice unilateralist position as I welcome his United support on Ukraine, and I share his characterisation of the position. We share trumps desire to bring this war to an end. We are working closely with the US and partners, and as I said before, President Zelenskyy is demonstrating a commitment to peace, including tube dissipation of the US and European partners.

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Does the Minister agree with me that last night brutal attack on that last night brutal attack on Kyiv is a timely reminder as other honourable members have alluded to honourable members have alluded to to governments and leaders around the world that Russia is and always has been the aggressor in this has been the aggressor in this conflict, and does he agree that that perspective must be central to

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that perspective must be central to any talks .$$NEWLINE We are

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any talks .$$NEWLINE We are unequivocal. Russia is responsible for this war. They are responsible for the ongoing killing and addressing. That is where we stand behind Ukraine and working with allies to have a lasting peace because we know that Putin's demands and intentions remain undiminished and we need to make sure that Ukraine has the right to defend itself against Putin.
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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of those in the Kremlin, but I do feel compelled to place on record feel compelled to place on record that my determination to expose the legality of floods near Putin and legality of floods near Putin and his government is greater today than his government is greater today than it was yesterday. Kevin Minister do what he can to make sure that our what he can to make sure that our resolve in this house is heard from the Kremlin and if necessary, in the

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White House. I am sure that the voices in this house I heard across the world. I have no doubt the Kremlin watch what is being said and I condemn the action on that side of the house. This terrible aggression by Putin has often had the opposite effect of what I think he intended to strengthen unity. Increased defence spending, increase resolve, increased willingness to stand with Ukraine and that is the message that we sent from this house from allies and what we must continue to send.



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The London talks, do we have the opportunity to discuss with allies the deployment of 100 and do we have the opportunity to discuss with allies the deployment of 155 members allies the deployment of 155 members of the Chinese People's liberation Army in support of Russia against

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Ukraine? I will not get into detail, but I

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I will not get into detail, but I can be clear that we are acting robustly against the country support robustly against the country support for Russia's illegal war. We did so in relation to a series of matters including industrial companies support and others raising concerns Chinese counterparts applying information to Russia. We supply in whatever format we can take action.

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I welcome the increasing to strengthening energy partnership with Ukraine which is crucial for with Ukraine which is crucial for Europe's energy independence. I recently visited advanced nuclear recently visited advanced nuclear fuel facilities being developed which is currently dominated. The which is currently dominated. The Minister say how we are looking at this technology and what it means for the energy partnership with

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Ukraine. I appreciate her interest in

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I appreciate her interest in these issues and support we are doing a huge amount with Ukraine to support the energy sector against the tax taking place and that is the crucial question for all of us across Europe, removing that dependency which I continually raise dependency which I continually raise with counterparts, and of course, that we look at new partnerships to support all of our energy needs in renewables, nuclear, or in other renewables, nuclear, or in other ways, so it is an important issue and I thank her for raising it.

 Can the Minister update the house on whether yesterday's meetings involved any discussion around any involved any discussion around any future potential corporation, and if so, did he impart on his counterparts? counterparts?
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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will be accountable for that, and I hope they are watching because it doesn't stop me or anyone in this doesn't stop me or anyone in this doesn't stop me or anyone in this I said earlier, pieces of gold but not at any price. How do we assure them that our support is there until them that our support is there until the rate deal is in place? What discussions are taking part with discussions are taking part with American allies to make sure we're on the same page when it comes to ensuring Russian aggression is not rewarded and the sacrifice of Ukraine is always remembered.

Speak amok I --

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I think the comments accurately capture the sentiments of the House and I condemn the sanction against them but the reaction of himself and them but the reaction of himself and other members should sure everybody in the world, Vladimir Putin and our allies, most importantly Ukraine, allies, most importantly Ukraine, that support remains ironclad and undiminished and will strengthen, undiminished and will strengthen, not diminish. I visited Bucha a few weeks ago and those scenes will never leave my mind.

Priests were murdered. Children were abducted. Further missiles came in and killed civilians. This should leave nobody in any doubt whatsoever who the aggressor is. It is Vladimir Putin and his regime. We will work with Ukraine, the US, European allies in the endeavour to find peace but then the ball is very much in the court of Vladimir Putin. of Vladimir Putin.
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if he will make a statement on the London Sudan Conference
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That concludes the statement. I
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David Mundell Portrait Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)
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thought in need. The UK will continue to lead international efforts to end the conflict in efforts to end the conflict in Sudan. Our immediate goals are clear, to bring an end to this clear, to bring an end to this destructive war, protect civilians, get it to where it is needed most. get it to where it is needed most. The vision is to work the Sudanese people and international partners to people and international partners to deliver the democratic and peaceful future that they deserve.

future that they deserve.

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I begin by thanking Mr Speaker for granting this urgent question. It is so important that we shine a light on the conflict which is the worst humanitarian crisis in the world at this time and Sudan is experiencing the most extreme hunger crisis as part of that with conflict crisis as part of that with conflict crisis as part of that with conflict -related famine, mass displacement, extreme sexual violence continuing to demonstrate millions of people. to demonstrate millions of people.

24.5 million people, about half the population, are experiencing acute food insecurity and there are 650,000 facing catastrophic consequences. It has led to unprecedented displacement with 8.6 Displaced since the start of the conflict are nearly 4 million people forced to flee across the borders. Unfortunately, the crisis continues to get worse. In recent days, we have seen the RSF attack the camp which housed about 500,000 displaced people and we have seen the Sudanese government allegedly attack a market in western Darfur which is speculated to be one of the worst incidents in the conflict.

Obviously, I share the Minister's aspirations and I'm sure the whole House does, we cannot underestimate the scale of this challenge. I was pleased the government took part in the conference but was disappointed that it was not possible to get the other participants, particularly the Arab nations, to sign up to an agreement at the end of the conference and it was also disappointing to find the RSF declaring an alternative government within a few days of that conference.

Can I ask the Minister specifically what the government is doing to encourage a greater role for the African Union, particularly
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Priti Patel Portrait Rt Hon Priti Patel MP (Witham, Conservative)
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will lead to a peaceful democratic future. The Foreign Secretary took future. The Foreign Secretary took future. The Foreign Secretary took the decision to try to ensure there was consensus among the parties. The situation is catastrophic and we are situation is catastrophic and we are taking every effort and this comes at the beginning of the end of

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efforts. We begin by supporting the remarks of my right honourable friend and also congratulating and securing what is an important and urgent question. Many millions of Sudanese civilians have been caught up in what is a barbaric conflict. They deserve peace and dignity and are facing the most appalling and dire humanitarian crisis and it is a fact that red lines have been crossed in this conflict and that cannot be allowed to stand. We want to chart a course for meaningful peace.

We all agree the need for an immediate end to the fighting is required and there is a need for urgent humanitarian access. Crucially, the Foreign Secretaries Conference did not see any new practical measures agreed with the African Union or other partners to help them into a ceasefire and end the conflict. Importantly, to deter the ways in which this conflict is being escalated because there has been no de-escalation whatsoever. Supporting a transition to a civilian-led government is clearly crucial and this has to be led by the Sudanese people.

What practical diplomacy is the Foreign Office and Foreign Secretary doing to help diplomatic processes like tidal to stay on track and to build confidence among little forces? Finally, on humanitarian aid,. -- Chiral. The Minister has announced the hundred and £20 million
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Hamish Falconer Portrait Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
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announced for 2025-26. Which organisations are the FCDO organisations are the FCDO partnering with, has delivery started, and can the Minister confirm if in parallel to announcing the new aid, is he working to keep border crossings open and pressing for the safety nets, the proper for the safety nets, the proper safety nets, to ensure the aid ends up going to those who genuinely need it and not into the wrong hands?

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The opposition spokesperson

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The opposition spokesperson raises valuable questions assess the honourable gentleman about the African Union. We thought it was particularly important to be particularly important to be cohosted this event with the African cohosted this event with the African Conference with wide applications for those in the neighbourhood. We are taking practical steps and we conducted the conference in closed session in order to enable the kind of frank discussion that is required in order to strike towards a more peaceful solution in Sudan.

I do not wish to give the House the impression we have made dramatic progress towards an end to violence in Sudan. We are familiar with the terrible reports which continue to come in, even this morning, of events in Darfur and across Sudan. We think through the conference we were able to bring greater unity about what the necessary next steps must be, the importance of
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Hamish Falconer Portrait Mr Hamish Falconer MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)
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As a weapon. What steps can be taken to protect women and children from to protect women and children from gender-based violence? I'm deeply concerned by reports that other nations are supplying supplies to the warring nations, particularly the warring nations, particularly Have provided weapons to the RSF who Have provided weapons to the RSF who are accused by the US of genocide in Darfur. Cabinet Minister of what steps he has taken to stop the flow of islands and assure British

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The Shadow Foreign Secretary raised this question as well, I am raised this question as well, I am very happy to write to the House with further details about delivery, both in relation to the 180 million both in relation to the 180 million and the concerning reports of recent days about restrictions in aid access, and once the situation access, and once the situation becomes clearer, I'm very happy to provide a full update to all parties on the practical questions about aid on the practical questions about aid delivery.

The honourable lady ask about the practical successes of the about the practical successes of the conference and what next on the diplomacy. The Co-Chair statements, just to remind the House, the Co- Chair includes not just the UK, but the EU, the EU, and others, and attempted to capture what was an important and frank set of discussions over the course of the day, setting out five intervals, it goes further than any recent statement. Because the ceasefire, rejecting interference, opposes parallel governance and supports a transition to civilian led governments.

The officials of the Foreign Office have been out,
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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Order, Order, order. Order, order. Shadow Order, order. Shadow Leader Order, order. Shadow Leader of the House.

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the House. Can there be a local election coming? Madame Deputy Speaker, will coming? Madame Deputy Speaker, will the Leader of the House give us the

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forthcoming business? Leader of the House. Good to see we are so popular today. I shall come in the business today. I shall come in the business for the week commencing 28th of April includes Monday, 28 April, second reading of the Football Governance Bill, Lords, Tuesday, 29 April, remaining stages of the Public Authorities of Fraud and Error Recovery Bill, Wednesday 30th of April, Committee of the whole House and remaining stages of the sentencing guidelines, presentence reports Bill, followed by motion to approve the draft Licensing Act 2003, victory of Europe day licensing hours order day 2025, followed by motion to approve a money resolution relating to the crime, Crime and Policing Bill.

General debate on Parkinson's awareness month. Followed by general debate on prisoners of conscience. The subject for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business The House will rise for the early May bank holiday, the conclusion of business on Thursday, 1 May, and return on Tuesday, 6 May. The provisional business for the week commencing 5 May will include choosing 6 May, general debate on the anniversary of Victory in Europe and victory over Japan. Wednesday, 7 May, remaining stages of the data you send access Bill, Lords, Thursday, 8 May, business to be determined by the Backbench Business Committee.

Friday, 9 May, the house

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will not be sitting. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker, I wish you and I very much hope everyone here had a spectacular
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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everyone here had a spectacular My I'm sure the house agrees with me at sadness at the death of the Pope. He was the embodiment of faith, hope, and charity. I would like to start with something small but I think important, my honourable friend the member for Hinckley and Bosworth recently asked the secretary of state for education written Parliamentary Question whether she had visited any private schools since July last year. The junior educationist replied as follows, " The secretary of state for education and the wider ministerial team visit a wide variety of education settings including private schools.

The secretary of state prioritises visits to our state schools would serve 93% of pupils in England. " All of which is true but not an answer to the question that was put. It was easy and it remains easy to compile the numbers. Leader has made clear on many occasions her commitment and belief that members of this house should receive proper answers to their questions. Could she take this up with the Secretary of State for education and see that a proper answer is given? More widely, I talked a few weeks ago about how the Prime Minister was steadily being mugged by reality.

We have seen this again in the last few days with the government's U-turn on days with the government's U-turn on the ban on cells beat built with slave labour in China. It is the same with the energy policy, Labour's manifesto promised to cut bills, to boost energy security, and to create cheaper zero carbon electricity by 2030, accelerating to net zero by 2050. Trying to allay concerns by promising responsible transition in the North Sea that recognises " The ongoing role of oil and gas in our energy mix.

" Nine months and we can see how it is going. The government has had to U- turn on its commitments to zero carbon electricity by 2030. Most recently the situation with British Steel in Scunthorpe has underlined the deep incoherence of its overall approach. By banning new oil and gas licences and preventing new exploration, the government is committing the UK to greater dependency on imported oil and gas, at higher cost with higher emissions and under less democratic control. In so doing, it is not advancing environmental justice or economic resilience.

It is accelerating the decline in energy sovereignty that will leave this country less secure, and ultimately poorer. We do not produce our own oil and gas, we will have to buy it. The difference is that it will come from overseas, and imported energy is not any more expensive, it has far higher carbon footprint. If I may remind the house, Liquefied Natural Gas evolves cooling gas to 160 below zero. Shipping it thousands of miles from Qatar and reclassifying it. The net emissions are up to four times higher than from North Sea gas.

Crucially, UK territorial emissions go down but overall emissions including imports are higher than they would be. This is not an honest policy was Labour's manifesto talked about the importance of energy security refusing to allow new exploration does not reduce volatility, it increases it. Energy is after all national security. It is heating your house and fuelling your car. The idea that a major economy should voluntarily give up its energy supply before alternatives are well advanced is not progressive, it is reckless.

But the problem goes somewhat wider. The government talks about green industrial revolution but the more expensive imported energy we have the harder to achieve that will be. Not just steel but chemicals, ceramics, fertilisers, or require large amounts of gas and will do for years to come. If energy is unreliable or unaffordable, these industries will continue to struggle whatever the fond imaginings of the Secretary of State. Worse still, the government's policy will squander capital and skills that might have gone into safely managing the U.K.'s remaining hydrocarbon assets.

The extra revenues will help fund, that would help fund the transition will be lost to the many other countries that welcome such investment. While the government turned its back on a sector that still employs 200,000 people and contribute billions in tax revenue. Let me conclude by asking whether the leader of the
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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house shares my view that we badly need some common sense here. We all want an effective and just energy transition. But that starts with one transition. But that starts with one principle, control what you can, use your own resources responsibly and transparently while building the key transparently while building the key energy system of the future. Instead the government has chosen a path that will increase emissions, raise that will increase emissions, raise costs, we can the economy untie Britain's future to foreign powers and volatile markets.

It is not

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leadership, it is an abdication. Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Can I also share with him, I am sure the thoughts of the whole house will be with Catholics in this country and around the world as they grieve for Pope Francis. As he said, he really did embody the very best of us with his deep faith and commitment to the poorest, the weakest, those dealing with conflict and destitution. Can I also once again put on record my thanks to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and Mr Speaker, and all the House staff for the professional and speedy way with which they called Parliament over the Easter recess.

They really do have dedication and professionalism at their core. And can I also take this opportunity, I don't think it has been done yet in the house, to pay tribute to Rory McIlroy. On finally getting one of the greatest sporting achievements he can, the golf Grand Slam, and the first European to do so. I think the resilience and mental strength he showed was unbelievable and really was a great role model of great sportsmanship. I wish all of those taking part in the London Marathon good luck this weekend.

The shadow leader raises a number of points about this government's strategy when it comes to energy and it change. I'm afraid I think his misunderstanding the economics of the situation here. Because the way that we will get energy security and the way that we will get lower bills in the future, and over the long term, is by having our own energy security. Our own clean energy supplies. Because we really do have to get ourselves off fossil fuels because to get that energy security, we have to become a price maker, not a price taker.

And home-grown energy is the only way we will get control over our prices and get us off the fossil fuel rollercoaster. As a country we have great assets in this way. We are an island nation, our ability to generate offshore, onshore wind, tidal, nuclear, and other things. This government has wasted no time, we have lifted the ban on onshore wind. We established Great British Energy. We have Great British Energy. We have removed 3 GW of solar, delivered record-breaking renewables at auction, kickstarted carbon capture I got the nuclear planning reforms underway.

That is how this country will bring down energy bills and get the energy security that we need. We have to get ourselves off the fossil fuelled rollercoaster and he really needs to look at the economics of the situation. I noticed that unlike many people, looking forward to the local elections, the shadow leader did not want to use the opportunity to make his party's pitch in the forthcoming local elections but maybe that is because they are not quite sure what their pitch is. People haven't forgotten the chaos and decline that his party left this country under after 14 years of failure and sleaze.

Whereas the Labour Party, we are putting money in people's pockets, we are boosting the living wage and wages rising higher than prices. We are fixing the NHS, with waiting lists down for six months in a row. Cut by 220,000 since July. New free breakfast clubs giving kids the start in life they want we are taking back control of our trains and our buses. And as I saw myself this weekend, we are taking swift action on tackling crime and antisocial behaviour.

By seizing and crashing off-road by which I did myself a top that is the difference that Labour in power makes. But I'm still not quite sure what the Conservative party's strategy is in these elections, and perhaps the shadow leader would want to enlighten us? Is it what is being proposed by the shadow Justice Secretary, in the form of an alliance with CAP reform? If that is not their strategy why hasn't he been sacked? The Leader of the Opposition used her flagship pre- election Today Program interview today to tell us about the one big achievement, Tory party unity.

I nearly spat out my tea. Because the benches opposite can barely muster a tear for her at PMQs, and the shadow Justice Secretary, he is in open leadership campaign mode because in fact this week, I see the letter that the shadow Justice Secretary has sent to all Conservative candidates standing in the local elections. With his clear leadership pitch and offering "Lunch with
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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freedom and democracy. We cannot and must not accept our democracy being undermined by allowing the undermined by allowing the intimidation of UK Parliament Arians. Will the Leader of the House Arians. Will the Leader of the House ask the Foreign Secretary to make a statement on how the government intends to engage in a clear eyed manner with authoritarian countries manner with authoritarian countries that appear to be creating hidden blacklists of British

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parliamentarians? Can I thank her for raising this on the floor of the house this morning because I know this is a matter of deep and grave concern to all members across this house. I all members across this house. I know the honourable Lady for Bath know the honourable Lady for Bath well, I have known her for a number of years. I previously enjoyed our exchanges as her predecessor, and I exchanges as her predecessor, and I was shocked and deeply saddened to hear of this incident.

And she must hear of this incident. And she must be so upset to not get the opportunity to meet her grandson. And to be denied entry to Hong Kong in this way. She's actually right to say that it is unacceptable for a Member of Parliament to be denied entry to another country simply for being a Member of Parliament, albeit on a private visit in this case. The government has relayed how deep concerns with this incident to the
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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I join with the shadow leader and Leader of the House in expressing condolences to Catholics all of the world on the death of the Pope, his leadership of the church will be sadly missed. In terms of the business, can I commend the clerks who support our committee on the work they have been doing to try and get colleagues to submit and agree to having a debate next Thursday. We managed to achieve it, thank goodness. But can ask colleagues who have made applications on our waiting list please respond speedily once they have been offered a date.

In addition, the business on Thursday, 8 May will include a debate on St. George's day, which of course, should have been held today, but the fact is government business takes precedence. On Thursday, 15 May, there will be a debate on solar farms in the chamber. In Westminster Hall next week, there will be a debate on conversation for criminal injuries. We are not proposing to injuries. We are not proposing to have debates in Rasmussen next Thursday because of local election day. On 6 May, there will be a debate on parking regulation.

May I remind the House that it will take place 11:30 AM because we will be on Monday hours and there will be further debate in Westminster to take place as well. Madame Deputy Speaker, as has rightly been mentioned on Tuesday, the systematic murder of Hindu pilgrims in India. The said reality is the terrorist group that is thought to be responsible for this, it is a Pakistani organisation and delivery targets innocent people in Kashmir. Already, the Indian government have revoked visas, closed the border, and expelled officials from Pakistan as a result.

Bubbly most importantly, they have suspended the treaty. I think this is an important aspect that we need the Foreign Secretary to come and make a statement to the House on what could end up being very quickly and escalating situation between Europe and Pakistan. Tonight, there will be individual outside the high commission, I will be representing the opposition. I understand there will be representatives of the government has wealth we must give our reassurance and support for the
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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government of India, making sure that they apprehend these terrorists and making sure those responsible and making sure those responsible for supporting them are also brought to justice. My understanding is that to justice. My understanding is that the Pakistani government and the Pakistani military have condoned these attacks. I am sure the leader these attacks. I am sure the leader will join with me in condemning absolutely these atrocities and absolutely these atrocities and making sure that people who visit Kashmir are held safely and do not Kashmir are held safely and do not have to suffer such incidents yet again.



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Can I thank the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee for letting us know our future debates. letting us know our future debates. Like him, I am anticipating that next Thursday won't be as popular as next Thursday won't be as popular as today seems to be. For obvious reasons. Can I also, as previously said, can I join him absolutely in condemning these terrorist attacks in Kashmir. This country always in Kashmir. This country always stands shoulder to shoulder with other countries in this case India who suffer these horrific terrorist who suffer these horrific terrorist attacks, which are cowardly act and act that we condemn, as he says.

And those conversations are ongoing, as he notes, to provide the support he notes, to provide the support that we can and are there any British nationals affected, we will British nationals affected, we will also provide that support to them as well. But can I thank you again for raising this important matter.
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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the context of Northern Ireland's place in the union, given the place in the union, given the support remaining, for Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK, has remained unchanged in has remained unchanged in generations, will the Leader of the House therefore give consideration to providing time for a debate on the government's responsibility to the government's responsibility to speak with one and its commitment to upholding Northern Ireland's place in this union of Great Britain and

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Northern Ireland? I will certainly assure the Minister has heard her question today for this government does speak with one, certainly try to, and I'm sorry if that has not been the case in what she describes. This in what she describes. This government is committed to the Good Friday Agreement in all its parts Friday Agreement in all its parts and she will know that these issues and she will know that these issues are matter for those who live in are matter for those who live in Residence in Hartlepool, and, with communities right across the borough, tell me they are fed up with crime and antisocial behaviour following 14 years of Tory failure that destroyed neighbourhood policing.

Does Leader of the House agree with me that Labour's pledge to put a named lease officer in every community, as championed by a brilliant council candidate, Lindsay Allen, is a game changer in tackling antisocial behaviour and crime across Hartlepool and in the country

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as a whole? I absolutely join him in thanking
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Lucy Powell Portrait Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Manchester Central, Labour )
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in their campaign to secure the future of Watteau Hall girl guides to a great job and they are a vital part of youth services and youth activities that we want to see right

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across the country. Fly-tipping is a blight on local communities across Cramlington and communities across Cramlington and Seaton Valley in my constituency, yet under the Conservative government, fly-tipping increased government, fly-tipping increased over 56%. Can we have a debate on the action being taken to strengthen enforcement and how we are clearing

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up the mess the Conservatives have left nationally and in Northumberland? She is absolutely right, fly- tipping is a blight on many of our communities, and we are determined to take further steps on this. We are currently seeking powers in the Crime and Policing Bill to issue statutory fly-tipping enforcement guidance, but I know she will want to raise those issues as that bill

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passes through Parliament. Hawthorn's care home in Buxton

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Hawthorn's care home in Buxton recently celebrated 90 years of service to our local community. I am sure the whole house want to join me sure the whole house want to join me in sending them the warmest congratulations to the staff, the residents and their families. This stands in stark contrast to the Conservative led Derbyshire County Council closing care homes and adult day care centres across High Peak, including the sudden and shocking including the sudden and shocking closure of Queens Court in books and earlier this month.

Will the Leader of the House and arrange a debate in government time to consider the

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future of care homes and day centres run by local councils? He is absolutely right to

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He is absolutely right to highlight the importance of care homes like that, of hawthorns in his
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None Portrait Legislation: Bank Resolution (Recapitalisation) Bill [Lords]: Remaining stages
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club. Maybe they have a Halla Haalaand if they are like Manchester

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city. Clark will proceed to read the orders of the day.
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Mark Garnier Portrait Mark Garnier MP (Wyre Forest, Conservative)
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Bank Resolution (Recapitalisation) Bill to be (Recapitalisation) Bill to be

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We will We will begin We will begin with We will begin with new We will begin with new clause We will begin with new clause 3 with which it will be appropriate to with which it will be appropriate to consider the amendments. I call that Shadow Minister to move the new clause.

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clause. I beg to move that the new clause be read.

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Thank you Madame Deputy Speaker. Before I move on to new clause 3 Before I move on to new clause 3 specifically, let me reiterate that we on this side of the house welcome we on this side of the house welcome the government's decision to carryover the legislation from the last Parliament. And the principles underpinning the bill continued to enjoy strong cross-party support. We all want and need confidence in our banking sector. The failure of Silicon Valley Bank, SVB, exposed a gap in our resolution framework for smaller banks.

Unlike larger institutions they do not have the bail bond backup in the event of a crisis was not this is why this bill by providing the bank of England with new tools to manage small bank failures remains both prudent and necessary, to protect financial stability and public funds. As we move to consider the amendments that we have tabled at report stage, I want to make clear that our approach is constructive and focused on strengthening the bill and not obstructing its progress.

As the bill has made progress through both houses, our intention has been to address a series of smaller but nonetheless significant issues, and things that we believe require further attention. I appreciate this conversation may continue another day. So I welcome conversations with the Minister and she has a was been incredibly open to direct conversations in her usual pragmatic style. If I may start with new clause 3. We have three amendments grouped for discussion today. Firstly I will speak to you clause 3 addresses a critical gap in this build scope which is protection of credit unions.

These community focused institutions have seen significant increases in recent years driven by the ending of predatory payday lenders. And they deliver affordable finance. Membership of a credit union rose from 1.89 million in 2019 to 2.14 million of years later, yet while their importance has grown, their inclusion in our resolution framework has not kept pace. The Financial Services Compensation Scheme has paid £10.1 million in compensation to credit union depositors over the last three financial years primarily due to small-scale failures.

This underscores the potential vulnerability and the need for a tailored approach as the sector expands. Their growth is a success story that it demands proportional safeguards. This bill excludes credit unions from recapitalisation mechanism. While their smaller size and unique nature may differentiate them from banks, the question remains, how does it account for credit union failures as the sector scales up? Is there scope to develop a mechanism without posing undue burdens on these community institutions? New clause 3 seeks clarity.

It requires the Minister to produce a report outlining how the resolution framework can be adapted to protect credit unions. During their growth does not outstrip the regulatory state. The vast amount of legislation for credit unions was written back in the 1970s. The previous government made difficult reforms through amendments to the Financial Services and Markets Act. I welcome that common bond reform consultation which closed last month. I know the Minister and the government are giving this sector serious consideration, I'm sure she will agree with me this is not about applying bank style laws to mutuals recognising the unique role and risks.

Credit unions are more than financial institutions, they are engines of financial inclusion. They serve small working class community is and I know the government wants to support them specifically. As the sector involves so must our approach we must ensure the regulatory framework rose and I hope the government supports the amendment. And does no more than to look more clearly at the available options in terms of a crisis happens. I now turn to amendments to which seeks to address the concern which has been raised by their mutual and building society sector.

These institutions are not relics of the past, they are vital proponents of a financial ecosystem. Although the society was ecosystem. Although the society was set up in 18 1875 helping people to build financial resilience to get a home of their own, they are still very current today. Today building societies hold money in assets and provide over 3 million mortgages to people in the UK because represent a significant portion of the housing market and are a trusted source of savings for millions more.

They provide a clear and important diversification in our financial markets providing a clear alternative to shareholder banks. The party opposite stood on a clear manifesto commitment in doubling the size of the co-operative mutuals sector, it is something we would agree on. There is a good opportunity today for members of the party opposite to demonstrate that commitment to the sector by enshrining in this bill the requirements that the bank of England considers the risk of demutualisation when using mechanism enshrined in this bill.

There is a genuine fear from the building society sector that without proper safeguards, recapitalisation mechanism that this bill offers could inadvertently become a backdoor for demutualisation. The mutual institution faces resolution in the selection of the PLC sector which risks permanently dismantling its mutual status. Undermining the very ethos that makes these institutions unique. Our amendment provides a proportionate solution. It requires the bank of England to consider the impact of demutualisation on members and on the sector as a whole, whilst also exploring the feasibility of selecting the mutual sector purchaser.

If one both exists and meets resolution objectives. This is not about privileging mutuals at the expense of financial stability but ensuring the banks tools do not inadvertently modernise the landscape. It devastates the need for agile solution frameworks and the importance of preserving institutional diversity. Mutuals and building societies often serve communities and demographics that larger banks frequently overlooked. The gaps in financial inclusion week in the sector. Importantly, without millions of mortgages provided by the building society sector, particularly for first-time homeowners, the party opposite housebuilding plans would be possible.

Hope the Minister appreciate our amendment strikes a careful balance between safeguarding financial stability and honouring our commitment to a pluralistic banking system, one where mutuals continue to thrive as a cornerstone of community focused finance. I remind members opposite, it will be much harder to double the size of the mutual sector if, in the event of a failure, it is recapitalisation as the default mechanism towards the banking sector. So I hope the party opposite demonstrate the manifesto commitment to the sector.

If I may now turn to amendment one, there remains a genuine concern shared across this house and reflected in the debates on the other place about the risk of the recapitalisation mechanism being applied wrongly. Potentially capturing larger banks that already hold substantial lost resources. We believe the mechanism should be limited in scope and targeted at smaller banks who do not have the capacity to manage their own failure. Amendment one would never be used as the mechanism of this bill for matters other than intended, and I appreciate the new clause 1 and new clause two have already been ruled out of scope but it may be worth looking at those.

I hope to place on record today that we believe the time has come for a review of how we set the threshold, as well as protecting ceilings for depositors under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. The currents statistic threshold disproportionally affect small and mid-sized banks. By indexing MREL threshold this will not stifle threshold this will not stifle competition. It would hinder their requirements to compete with larger banks. We hope the government will consider these points. Threshold limit should not stay static with time.

Likewise, the government recognition and the need to review the deposit limit. And the deposit protection scheme from £85,000 from £85,000-£110,000, whilst welcome, it certainly overdue. But it is worth noting that if the limit kept pace with inflation it would be nearly 2/3 higher at around £140,000 according to the Federation of Small Businesses. It is worth noting that only 4.6% of banks were insured by the Financial Services Compensation

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Scheme. Can I remind the honourable

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Can I remind the honourable gentleman that we are discussing what is in scope rather than what has not been selected.

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has not been selected. My apologies. There are points which are worth noting but I take which are worth noting but I take your point. If I may return to your point. If I may return to amendment three, this is the amendment tabled by the Liberal Democrats. Whilst we share the Democrats. Whilst we share the intent behind this amendment which mirrors our own amendment, there is a critical difference in the approach which gives us reason to pause. Like us, the Liberal Democrats recognise that in state and World Bank should not be the prime target of this legislation.

It introduces a requirement that we believe would create more problems than it solves. Our concern lies with the potential impracticality of this approach. Banking crises can unfold rapidly and as we saw with Silicon Valley Bank UK, where decisions were made in hours not days. Statutory Instrument laid becomes law the moment it is signed. Remaining so, however, unless either house rejects it within 40 sitting days. This creates a window of uncertainty. If there was a Hung Parliament, it could trigger a banking crisis.

We worry this necklace and could tie the hands of the future Chancellor hindering their ability to respond swiftly and decisively in a crisis. Those reasons we feel we cannot support the Bill as it stands. Finally, turning to the liberal democrats growth amendment, we find ourselves in a familiar and supportive position. This amendment which seeks to place a further objective on the bank of England to pursue competitiveness and growth in the market before directing recapitalisation of failing small banks, echoes concerns raised in the House of Lords where we were happy to support during the committee stage.

The government frequently repeats its focus on economic growth. It is a goal all of us share. The decision to levy the banking sector to cover the cost of the competitors failure must be carefully weighed against the carefully weighed against the The government has an opportunity to look at this legislation, and we hope they will. We support the overall bill, which will strengthen our banking resolution framework. And we have highlighted several key areas which we believe require further detail.

To protecting mutual credit unions and safeguarding the financial services compensation scheme against inflation, our amendments aimed to improve the Bill's effectiveness and fairness, and not only that, but something that is in line with the promises of the party opposite made during the general election so I look forward to the party opposite supporting to the party opposite supporting their own manifesto.
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David Pinto-Duschinsky Portrait David Pinto-Duschinsky MP (Hendon, Labour)
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The question is that new clause 3

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we read a second time. I speak of amendments one, three and four. Under the party opposite, we need to boost long-term growth, ensuring a recovery regime as a key ensuring a recovery regime as a key part of that. Changes undertaken in the UK and globally have made banks the UK and globally have made banks safer and more resilient. However, the collapse of Silicon Valley banking in 2023 has demonstrated the need for risks of financial stability posed by small banks.

We need to have a process that goes beyond, and that is why we enjoy so much support across the financial services sector. But in designing this new approach, we must make sure that we reflect the lessons of experience. I have to say that I am concerned that these amendments do not do so and will impede the function of a new regime, rendering it less effective in moments of crisis. I was the adviser in the Treasury to Alistair Darling during the financial crisis when we had to resolve and recapitalise a number of major banks.

The action the Labour government took then often in the face of resistance from the benches opposite help save our financial sector from catastrophe and stabilise not just the UK but the global economy. There are many lessons to be learned from that period, but in relation of that bill, one stands out. What we learned from we had to save the banking sector was that successful resolution relies on two key factors, speed and flexibility. It is a congregation of these factors and he has only become more so.

In 2008, we watched banks liquidity deteriorate by the day, but now, as an example of signature banks collapse, the condemnation of banking apps and social media mean that a full-scale banking run can develop in hours or minutes. If we are to resolve banks successfully, regulators must be able to move successfully. Speed has become more important than ever. So too has flexibility. As we see diversification among banks and new challenges, new forms of institution and new types of markets emerging, this has become more essential, not less.

The valuer flexibility was demonstrated in Silicon Valley thanks UK subsidiary where was the creative use of powers to resolve banks to assail that protected consumers, minimised market turbulence and shield of the public purse. Rigidity and mechanistic failure to apply major bankrolls with regulatory oversight contributes to knowledge of that. Why do I raise this? I worry that it will reduce the efficacy of the bill. This will require the bank to consider the competitiveness and growth impact of the market.

However well-intentioned this is, this could have a very damaging effect. In a moment of crisis where policymakers have hours to act, it would place a duty on them to make a market assessment which could be challenged. This is simply impractical and we can slow down financial stability. As someone who was sat in the room during a bailout process, I have to tell the proposer of the amendments that spending time on this exercise is simply a luxury you do not have.

I'm also concerned that such a requirement would have a that such a requirement would have a chilling effect. This could not only raise collapse, but raise capitalisation as well. Experience tells us that the longer you turn off inclusion, it is a risk of higher cost. There are practical difficulties which is flawed. In seeking to analyse the market with an institution, you are putting the cart before the horse. Surely a much better course of action is to prevent the disorderly collapse of the institution and then work out its long-term future and the role it should play in the market.

The amendment fails to take into account other objectives that we should consider in deciding whether to act including the protection of retail savers and safeguarding macro stability. As drafted, the amendment, however well-intentioned, could distort decision-making. It's impact might not be. The same is true of amendments one and three. Both seem to circumscribe the use of statute to prevent it being used to bailout larger institutions. The amendment would rob regulators of the flexible it is to you raise the instrument in unforeseen circumstances in the name of solving a problem that does not exist.

The powers provided for by the bill are already aimed squarely at smaller banks. The bill states that the FSC S fund and resolution may only be used for institutions in a bridge bank or transferred to a new institution, and this wouldn't be applicable for larger banks as they are expected to be resolved. The bill also provides for Treasury sign off which requires a chancer to report to Parliament on the use of powers and mandates the bank to inform the chairs of the Parliamentary committees whenever a fund and resolution is undertaken.

As such, it is already well policed and circumscribed. There is little danger of this approach being regularly or routinely used in large banks, and adding a prohibition on using this approach in firms meeting their thresholds would add little. But it would create risk. My experience in the Treasury during the global financial crisis and in my work across financial services since then is that we cannot say the highly improbable will never happen, and we cannot always predict what form this will take what will trigger it.

I understand this lesson better than most. It was Liz Truss's disastrous budget that sparked chaos and people thought would be stable. Given this, it would be exceptionally unwise to bar the PRA to use all the tools at its disposal in exceptional circumstances. With eventualities, these things are possible like suffering mass redress event. We must allow bank flexibility to have access to tools provided in circumstances to ensure stability and protect the taxpayer. We must not bind its hand in a crisis.

The power of the proposals to deploy rapidly is what will give them their traction and help safeguard our financial stability. It is critical we preserve those assets of the bill and it is for that reason that I urge the house to

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join me and reject those amendments. I call Clive Jones. The Liberal Democrats are

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The Liberal Democrats are supportive of this bill because the last thing taxpayers need to worry last thing taxpayers need to worry about are the consequences of an under regulated banking sector. under regulated banking sector. However, I have put this on because the size of banks eligible for the the size of banks eligible for the new mechanism has been part of the keys passage. The regulator has set keys passage. The regulator has set out the bill stated aim is to respond to the failure of small respond to the failure of small banks, however, it is not applied to medium or small -sized banks.

It can create higher costs for banks and customers. These would persist for many years, adding a significant
13:42
Clive Jones Portrait Clive Jones MP (Wokingham, Liberal Democrat)
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burden of the banking sector and burden of the banking sector and consumers. Our amendment would ensure that this is not applied to the banks that have reached in a the banks that have reached in a state of minimum requirement for funds and eligible liabilities, or more simply for the UK banks. This more simply for the UK banks. This would therefore mean only small and mean banks can be supported by this mechanism and protect consumers and the banking sector from unnecessary the banking sector from unnecessary financial burden.

Leading to amendment for, this is been bought back to the Committee stage to replace the objective and consider the growth of the market before directing their recapitalisation through a levy on the banking sector. We believe further considerations or competitiveness and growth of the market are important to consider before directing the recapitalisation of failing small banks. To conclude, I would be very grateful of going into further details of remarks at Committee stage as to how precisely the amendment would complicate the process of managing the bank process of managing the bank

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failure. Thank you. It is a wizard pleasure to speak and your championship. I would like and your championship. I would like to thank the honourable members opposite for your amendments and opposite for your amendments and their constructive engagement throughout the bill's passage. This bill will ensure that the Bank of England remains equipped with the England remains equipped with the necessary tools to effectively manage bank failures in a way that minimises risk to the taxpayer,
13:43
Emma Reynolds Portrait Emma Reynolds MP, The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Wycombe, Labour)
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minimises risk to the taxpayer, protecting the taxpayer and to UK stability. While there may be some agreement on the finer detail of this bill, I think what we have heard today and second reading demonstrates that there is cross- party support for the principles and overall objectives of this bill I overall objectives of this bill I thank the honourable member for Wokingham for what you said today about supporting the principles and objectives of the bill. The amendments in this group cover a broad range of issues, so I will therefore explain the government's permission on them in turn, but I also want to thank my honourable friend for her ending for sitting out his experience of the banking crisis and stressing that the mechanism that we are seeking to provide in this bill must allow the Bank of England in consultation with the Treasury and the other financial services to act with speed and flexibility at times of crisis.

There are hours not days to which to make these decisions, and at the forefront of our minds when discussing this bill, we have to member this often takes place over the weekend, as it did under the previous government. I will turn to that example in a bit more detail later in my speech, but I want to thank my honourable friend for setting out his concerns for any amendments that would essentially stymie the effectiveness of this stymie the effectiveness of this bill.

I will now turn to new clause 3 which is about the bills impact on credit unions, and I note the shadow minister raises an important number of issues because some of them are not relevant to the content of this bill but I will come onto them. The government overall absolutely supports credit unions. They play a vital role in providing affordable credit in communities across the country. However, they are not in scope of the resolution regime which we are discussing today. And therefore not in scope of the new payment mechanism introduced by this payment mechanism introduced by this That is a benefit to the credit union sector and something that they asked the government to do and therefore they will not be liable to pay towards the cost of a failure when the mechanism is used.

I wanted to set out the detail about the resolution regime and why credit unions are not involved and remained the shadow minister of this. The Bank of England has a set of powers under the regime that it can use to manage the failure of banking institutions to protect financial stability. In order for the Bank of England to use these powers, certain conditions must be met including that resolution action is necessary and in the public interest. It is unlikely these conditions would be met in the case of credit union field was given the size and the reduced likelihood of contagion if they fail.

It is therefore appropriate that these firms are out of the scope of the regime and placed into insolvency when they fail instead. The government does not therefore believe it is necessary for a report to be And credit unions. Nevertheless, I appreciate the points he is making about access to liquidity facilities. Credit unions are not currently able to access the Bank of England's liquidity facilities but the bank continually assesses the firms that are eligible. I would gently say that with eligibility to these liquidity facilities, there comes additional responsibilities on the part of the firms that benefit from them.

That is worth bearing in mind. I would reiterate the clear and strong support of the government for the credit union sector and that we continue to engage to understand compete.

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I commend and support the credit unions because they have a big part to play. For the record, my concern to play. For the record, my concern when it comes to crisis in banks, when it comes to crisis in banks, credit unions belong to members but the banks are different and they have got the chief executive and the directors and I believe there is an directors and I believe there is an issue with unfairness and you have got a pensioner who has saved all of got a pensioner who has saved all of their life and they still get dividends and bonus regardless of the crisis.

Within this legislation, can be be reassured that the bankers at the top who may be responsible will find that the bonuses will not be delivered?

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He draws me into discussing something that is not pertinent to something that is not pertinent to the amendments but I understand why he has asked a question. When a bank he has asked a question. When a bank fails there is a hierarchy of creditors. That ensures that those... I can write to him with the those... I can write to him with the hierarchy. I do not have it in my pack or my head at the moment. It pack or my head at the moment.

It ensures that those who have already invested in the bank, for example, if the bank is building, they would become stakeholders of the bank. -- bailed in. It depends where it is in the process. I am happy to write to him about it. The people who have deposits in the bank are bank accounts are protected up to £85,000 and soon that will be increasing in the way that the shadow minister suggested. Come back to the amendments. I turned to amendments one and three in the name of the honourable member for Wake Forest There were discussions in the other place on this issue, too.

The government position remains that the mechanism is not intended to support the largest banks and this was set out. The largest banks will be continued to self-insure against their own failure. For banks required to, the Bank of England should use these resources to recapitalise such a resolution rather than resorting to the new mechanism in the bill. It is right that shareholders and investors should bear the losses before anyone else. That comes into the points raised by the honourable gentleman.

Coming back to the primary purpose, protecting the taxpayer. Bank failure is by its nature highly unthinkable. In the unlikely circumstances where a top up is needed to resolve a bank once the MREL resources have been used, they MREL resources have been used, they must consider if they want the cost to be borne by the taxpayer. It is the belief of the government the taxpayer should not be on the hook for this. I made this assertion at the committee stage and make it again today.

There are safeguards to prevent inappropriate use of the mechanism. The Treasury is involved in the use of resolution powers and the Treasury would need to approve any resolution action with implications for public funds. The Bank of England requested a large sum from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme which it could not provide through its own resources, additional amounts would need to be borrowed from the Treasury and would therefore require the approval of the tragedy. This means in practice Treasury consent would be required if the Bank of England had requested a large sum in the shadow minister attempting to draw me into different subjects relating to MREL which rightly I think you have reminded him of the scope of the bill and indeed the amendments that we are discussing today.

I would of course be happy to have those discussions with him and it is something that he knows the Bank of England have recently consulted on. I know what he said in the debate before he was called to order. He tried to draw me into questions around the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. I appreciate amendment three tabled by the honourable member for

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Wokingham... Yes. I am sorry. I am suffering with

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I am sorry. I am suffering with my sinuses. I appreciate the scope is limited and the Minister is making an excellent case today and I making an excellent case today and I would ask if she could write to me would ask if she could write to me on a related point which is that bank collapses are unusual and bank collapses are unusual and everyone takes a range of steps to protect. Would she be able to write protect.

Would she be able to write Of the bank was to collapse? Three perhaps we could have a discussion outside the chamber so I can better understand this question but you mechanism in this bill is about what happens when the resolution regime is triggered. Four conditions have to be met. The bill seeks to continue in the work the opposition to forward before the election and what we do in cases like Silicon Valley Bank and how we ensure, if there was no records to public one, but that there had been, to protect the taxpayer.

Perhaps we could have a different discussion. It is of great concern to members across the House. I appreciate the amendment to introduce an additional safeguard by only allowing it at the Treasury permitted through legislation and we talked about that in his speech. I would say that there may be risks associated with this approach and particularly the Bank of England had to take a decision at pace and crisis in the way my honourable friend that when situations arose. friend that when situations arose.

We discussed... We discussed some of these... There are a number of bot let's not recover the history. As the shadow minister has suggested, we are trying to avoid a window of uncertainty during which an SI would be laid. We have to work closely in consultation with the Treasury and other regulators and the Bank of England must act quickly and decisively, often over the weekend. I would like members and the honourable gentleman to cast your honourable gentleman to cast your mind back to previous failures.

We learned how quickly the authorities, the Bank of England and the Treasury must move to find a solution before markets open and resolve a failing firm in a way that protects financial stability and the taxpayer and protecting the taxpayer, depositors and financial stability must be at the forefront of our minds when making the amendments. Potentially the amendment he puts forward without a further stage to the process and the Treasury would be unable to allow the Bank of England to act and this could hamper efforts to implement decisions swiftly to achieve objectives and saw of Silicon Valley Bank UK had had the requirements, it would have made finding the solution before the Monday morning and markets opening more challenging.

The priority is to protect depositors and financial stability. Overall, the government believes it is better for flexibility of the bank, noting the safeguards in place I have mentioned. On the bitters of the points, I hope the honourable members will be persuaded to support the government position on this matter. It is a matter of intention. Let me turn to amendment four of the honourable member for Wokingham and another passage and this would be about the competitive advantage ready Bank of England exercise you to new power.

Growth and competitiveness are fundamental priorities for this government and I stated at committee stage, a disorderly bank failure of could pose a serious risk that the competitiveness of the sector and the UK economy and this bill seeks to mitigate that risk. Taking that and bearing that in mind, the government does not believe it should impose a requirement of the Bank of England to consider the growth and competitiveness when it is taking urgent crisis management action in relation to an individual distressed are failing from.

The situation is challenging enough without being given an additional objective of this kind. The resolution objectives set out in the banking act already provide a solid basis on which it must make its decisions. These include detecting financial stability, protecting corporate depositors, and protecting the taxpayer. As my honourable friend reminded us, the Bank of England in close partnership with the Treasury and other financial services regulators needs to act with speed and flexibility to maintain financial stability. These considerations are very different to the ones the PRA and FCA are making in policy admitting roles and the government accepts the secondary objective of facilitating growth and competitiveness.

I note there is a broader question around this but it is a complex matter and one well beyond the scope of this bill and we will be resisting this amendment for those reasons. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker... The debate has attracted quite a lot of discussion around the edges. I will turn briefly... I can hear myself thinking it would be nice. Turning to the amendment proposed by the Shadow Minister, I would reiterate the government has made clear strong commitment to support the mutual sector and I assure hand we take the commitment in the manifesto to double the size of the sector very seriously.

There are many honourable members on this side of the House who save us Labour and co-opted MPs who have a great interest in this matter as has been demonstrated. I would also point to measures set out by the Chancellor which include, to refer to a couple of them, the reform, the consultation and the potential to perform common bonds with unions in Great Britain. The Chancellor asked Financial Conduct Authority and Potential to produce a report that the landscape of mutuals by the end of the year.

We welcome the establishment of a business Council and I took the first meeting of that council earlier this year. I would start by saying and grateful to the honourable gentleman for raising this issue and to say also that the chief executive of the Building Society Association has written to me on the issue he raised that we are getting with him and the sector on the issues relating to the bill and many other issues that are relevant to financial services and the role the sector plays in providing vital services to people across the country and as an engine of growth for the wider economy.

I understand that the sector's interestedly matters stems from a provision in clause 7 which gives the Bank of England explicit power to require securities issued by the firm for the new mechanism is in place. This provides a means for the bank of England to have recapitalisation of the new mechanism established by the bill at the property to provide additional operational certainty that where there went it's a failing fund to issue shares as part of resolution, doing so will not be put at risk by the usual administrative process and of course Mitchell is of a different ownership model with no shareholders and so that would require the from to be demutualised.

This brings me to the amendment which would require further detail and the code of practice for the mutualisation and particularly the Treasury would have to look at this with regard to resolution powers on a building society under circumstances where the use of recapitalisation would lead to this. A cadence would require the back of to give due consideration to the impact of such an issue and on the mutual sector and in particular where the bank of England could select a buyer from the mutual sector.

The Bank of the mutual sector. The Bank of England must have regard for the court I need regard to the new guidance with resolution power and in responding to the concerns raised, I would firstly not the back of want already has a power to require demutualisation if that is necessary to execute resolution necessary to execute resolution Transfer of the assets of a neutral firm to another acquirer, and we saw that in 2009 with the building society and the transfer of its assets to nationwide back then.

It's assets may well prove an attractive acquisition to another mutual and so a sale to the sector may already be a likely outcome an existing regime. However, it is worth remembering that the issues we are considering here relate to banks and bank societies once they have failed, and the alternative as part of a resolution may be insolvency, which may have far more adverse Karen Karen mind Karen mind honourable Karen mind honourable members Karen mind honourable members that this is fundamentally about this is fundamentally about this is fundamentally about
14:04
Mark Garnier Portrait Mark Garnier MP (Wyre Forest, Conservative)
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It doesn't mean it is necessary to hardwire a requirement to the code of practice. However, I do of practice. However, I do understand that this is an issue that the mutual sector feel strongly about and my officials and I will about and my officials and I will continue to engage with them on it. continue to engage with them on it. If I can address one or two points that have been raised in this debate, the honourable member for Hendon is an incredible value which member because of his ability in that date.

As a result of the financial service, almost compound the problem by having a tripartite regime at the time, and if I remember rightly, the Chancellor of the Exchequer found it so scary that his eyebrows nearly turned white, but I think one of the surprising things about that crisis was that 10 years earlier, we have seen another crisis in the Asian banking crisis crisis in the Asian banking crisis which laid the groundwork. A Parliamentary for banking standards meant that I looked exclusively at all of this, and it is important that we have to resolve this, and as it turned out, the banking reform act 2014 have worked well in the case of some of its resolutions.

On the point about LBI's, we did deal with this problem pretty swiftly and pretty brutally. One of our leaders gets us wrong, we do get rid of them fairly quickly, and I urge the party opposite that of members of the Frontbench to get things wrong, perhaps it should be worth court arising that problem and moving on. Specifically on the two points, credit unions and mutuals absolutely. We recognise the mutual point about the mutual sector. We are not asking for demutualisation to be ruled out, but what I am asking is the prospect of avoiding this to be part of that very swift process and that is why we will move the relevant amendment.

And on the relevant amendment. And on credit unions, the credit unions are credit unions, the credit unions are very keen that this point is voted on, so we will be moving that as well. Thank you.
14:06
None Portrait Division
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The question is that new clause 3 be read a second time. As many of that opinion say I division, clear The The question The question is The question is is The question is is on The question is is on the The question is is on the order

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Lock Lock the Lock the doors.

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Order, Order, order.

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Order, order. Order, order. The Order, order. The ayes Order, order. The ayes to Order, order. The ayes to the

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Order, order. The ayes to the

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Order, order. The ayes to the right, 88. The noes to the left,

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right, 88. The noes to the left, 212. The ayes to the right, 88.

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212. The ayes to the right, 88. The noes to the left, 212. The North -- The noes have it. The noes have it. Unlock. Amendment two has been selected for a separate provision. Move formally. The question is that amendment two be made. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye.". To the contrary, "No." Division. Clear Colleagues Colleagues who Colleagues who are Colleagues who are standing Colleagues who are standing should be seated.

Colleagues who are standing... There are lots of seeds to be fun. The question is as on the order paper. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye.". To the

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Order, Order, order.

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Order, order.

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Order, order. The eyes to the right, 89, the

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nose to the left, 213. The ice to the right, 89, the

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The ice to the right, 89, the nose to the left, 213. The nose have nose to the left, 213. The nose have Consideration completed, third reading. Minister to move third reading.

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I beg to move that the bill be now read 1/3 time. I think we can do this in a more relaxed fashion. As we have discussed through the Bill's passage, the banking recapitalisation bill will strengthen the U.K.'s bank strengthen the U.K.'s bank resolution regime providing the Bank of England with a more flexible of England with a more flexible toolkit to respond to the failure of toolkit to respond to the failure of banking institutions. As volatility over recent weeks have shown, global uncertainty can have a real impact on financial markets across the world.

That is why it is important that the UK remains equipped with an effective financial stability toolkit. The primary objective of the recapitalisation mechanism introduced by this bill is to protect the taxpayer, and as such, it will provide more comprehensive protection for public funds when banks fail. As discussed at Bill committee, and earlier today a report stage, I think all sides of the house can agree this is of vital importance to make sure Constituents are not left behind when a bank collapses.

There are new upfront costs in the banking sector and strikes the right balance between protect and financial stability and supporting the government's number one priority of driving economic growth. I would like to thank all those in this house and the other place that have contributed to the scrutiny of this bill so far. I would like to thank the opposition benches for their constructive
14:33
Emma Reynolds Portrait Emma Reynolds MP, The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Wycombe, Labour)
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engagement. There is broad agreement on the primary agreements of the on the primary agreements of the bill, but there is a differing view which has been expressed on the scope of the mechanism and the finer details. I would reiterate the government's position that it is important to learn the lessons from the cases of silicon valley which demonstrates that the implication of the firms failure cannot always be anticipated prior to the event as anticipated prior to the event as things move very quickly indeed.

It is important that the legislation avoids being overly restricted on the Bank of England's ability to use the mechanism in an unpredictable and fast moving failure scenario. Ensuring that the mechanism achieves its primary objective of protecting the taxpayer. I hope that those in the other place will agree that the government's position when the bill returns for their consideration, but at this stage, I would like to thank the shadow minister, the members for Dorking and Horley, Wokingham, and the honourable members on both sides of the house that sat on the committee, and I would also like to thank the member for Hampshire and the honourable members for St Albans and Bridgwater for their contributions at second reading and I would like to thank my honourable friend the Minister for who assisted in second reading who supported me, as well as the member for Newcastle-under-Lyme.

I would like to extend my thanks again to my honourable friend for Hendon for his speech earlier today at report stage. I would like to extend my gratitude to officials for their work in developing a highly technical bill, one that is not easy to be rushed, and supporting me throughout the Bill's passage through the house. I'm also grateful to the Parliamentary Counsel and all other officials in the passage of the bill. This bill supports the U.K.'s economic resilience to the risks posed by bank failures.

We all remember the damage caused by the financial crisis, and this alongside financial crisis, and this alongside measures in an orderly way that will deliver on the government's growth deliver on the government's growth mission. We have cross-party support mission. We have cross-party support in this house and look forward to its enactment, and I commend this bill to the house. bill to the house.
14:36
Mark Garnier Portrait Mark Garnier MP (Wyre Forest, Conservative)
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The question is that a bill be

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called 1/3 time. Congratulations for bringing her

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Congratulations for bringing her first bell. She has done a first bell. She has done a magnificent job but can I just add what a pleasure it is to engage with what a pleasure it is to engage with the Minister who is summer we both share the common interests of the wider economy, and we have worked together on this but the overall together on this but the overall objective of this bill is one that we agree on. I spent some time looking at how we can stop another banking crisis with the privileged to work 2012.

All of this stuff is an iterative process. We will never be able to stop and cease financial crisis happening, or we can do is work together to make sure there are no other instances again we can put through the system, and this bill is one that is extraordinarily good in this iterative business but it genuinely is very important. I would also like to pay credit to the former Chancellor and economic secretary who worked tirelessly to transfer over the weekend.

This undoubtedly created issues with the system, but we are glad that this bill is something that is welcome in terms of Parliament. I think we will almost certainly look at things over the next few years, but we will the next few years, but we will engage with her and her officials and make sure that we do have a and make sure that we do have a world-class financial system that is the enemy of the world. Thank you.
14:38
14:38
Julie Minns Portrait Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)
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secured an adjournment debates on a topic that is so important to my constituency of Carlisle. In the last two decades, Carlisle has suffered two devastating floods, to floods that have left local people fearful whenever there is a forecast of heavy rain. In the flight of January 2005, at that time, the worst flood since 1822. Three local people tragically lost their lives. Thousands were forced from their homes as 1800 properties were overcome by water from the three rivers that converge in the centre of Carlisle.

Power and telephone lines were disrupted, roads were closed, all of the city buses were damaged. The Civic Centre designated as the emergency control centre along with the police station, the fire station, the main electricity substation, the telephone exchange, and the sewage treatment works were all severely flooded. It was record rainfall that caused that flood of 2005, but just 10 years later, that record was shattered and Carlisle was flooded again. This time, 2200 properties were breached with floodwater.

With floods in both 2005 and 2015, I think the Minister will understand why many of my residents are concerned that, in 2025, another year ending in five might bring further devastation to our city. That fear is heightened because the defences that were promised by the previous government following the 2015 flood whenever completed. It is a fear that I can personally relate to. In 1985, my family's home in the Denton area of Carlisle, one of the areas still at risk because of those flow defences was flooded when the river burst its banks.

I can personally testify to the feeling of terror and helplessness when your home is invaded by water. Wading through what was once your living room, surveying possessions and furniture destroyed beyond repair. It is a horrible, crushing feeling. And even after the water subsides, the smell of damp and sewage remains. Returning to any sort of normality can take months, even years. My parents had spent the best part of two decades creating a home that they loved, and my Nan still talks of it.

But after the flood, she can never shake the sense or smell of damp, and then we had moved house. Over the next five years, £38 million was spent on the design, construction flood defences of the culture rivers. These were designed to protect from storm happening, and they did make a major difference. In 2012 and 2013, the defences were estimated to have prevented INXS of £80 million of flood damage to the city. But on 5 December 2015, storm Desmond hit Carlisle.

It was a storm with just one in 333 chance. It triggered the highest number of rainfall. Flood levels were approximately 600 million m higher than those experienced in 2005. Such was the extent of the flood that the crossbar post was submerged underwater. Fortunately, no one lost their life, and while the recently constructed defences were effective in some locations, it was quite clear that more needed to be done. Progress has been made in subsequent years, and I commend the Environment Agency for that.

Since the catastrophic floods of 2015, someone thousand 650 homes are better protected thanks to over 6 km of new or raised flood defences. Alongside improving converts and their associated inlet or outlet structures. The Carlisle phase 1 completed in 21 have increased protections for homes and businesses around Warwick Road around Carlisle. The Carlisle phase 2 scheme also competed in 2021 which raised defences providing further detection to the Hardwicke services. Schemes have also reduced the flood to local communities.

And it was particularly excellent to see the latter of these receiving innovative and low carbon approach of removing historic embankments to increase the effectiveness of natural floodplains.

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My honourable friend is making an excellent and powerful speech about excellent and powerful speech about this awful problem on her part of this awful problem on her part of England. Are there wider lessons that can be learned from the that can be learned from the techniques she is describing such as using natural materials and changes using natural materials and changes of land use for river catchments? This may be the case in the Thames Valley where the Thames and Kennet have flooded, and with climate change, they are providing levels of risk than they did in the past.

There may be a range of issues, and There may be a range of issues, and There may be a range of issues, and

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I think that there are lessons to be learned, not least because Carlisle has been so badly affected by flooding which is so devastating that certainly the schemes, in particular in terms of maximising particular in terms of maximising the flood lanes, lessons could be shared and I will talk more generally about the natural flood generally about the natural flood defence work that has happened on the outskirts of the city. As I say, the number of schemes to the north the number of schemes to the north of Carlisle, natural solutions like planting trees and the creation of wetlands have been used to mitigate against flooding.

All while providing wider environmental benefits to the community and the new natural flood management scheme is being delivered at the farm, offering further protection to Brampton. Also the river was threatened more than 200 years ago threatened more than 200 years ago and it has been assessed and a 1.1km of the riverbed has been returned to the natural state. During heavy periods of rainfall, the river can now spill out onto the natural surrounding floodplain medals, helping reduce the chance of flooding downstream towards Carlisle as well I the added bonus of creating pools and damp patches for birds to feed on and I'm delighted that earlier this month the that earlier this month the restoration won a prestigious flood protection award for 2025.

Schemes like this have an important role to play. I urge the Minister to look closely at how a redesigned SFR can compensate farmers to do the right thing by the local community for the loss of income they might have otherwise earned from farmland they have given over to natural flood management schemes. There is also the Carlisle Flood action plan. the Carlisle Flood action plan. Since funding in 2016, there is campaigning for the funding the city needs.

It is one of many examples that show Carlisle at its very best. Our community is one that binds together and nothing perhaps encapsulates that better than it taking just 14 days from the floods in 2015 to get to the aforementioned park up and running and ready for matches once again. Some might say that given the form this season, we could use a delay to the end of it. Let me be clear, more does need to be done. In January of last year, river levels threatened to overwhelm the city again.

Last May, the rainfall equivalent to a one in 300 year storm led to flooding of 100 properties in Scotland. The changing climate only makes these sorts of storms more common. The environment agency believes that the impact of climate change in the River Eden catchment which covers the majority of the constituency will be more severe than the vast majority of the catchments in England. At the very top of the list of what must be done is the flood risk management scheme which many in make it that UNC will which many in make it that UNC will now as the phase 3 scheme which was not delivered by the last government.

The objective is to reduce flood risk to 1700 properties in the area of the city and I was grateful to the area director for the environment agency for the area accompanying me on a tour in February this year. Despite assurances dating back years, residents have become frustrated and there is a lack of communication from the environment agency since the project was paused in 2021 due to environmental concerns. We are not the only community waiting for the fancies are even trying to get maintenance done to existing the fancies.

After 14 years of Conservative debtor and delay, some 3000 were below the required conditions. -- dither. It is one reason that I am glad we now have a Labour government and a responsive Floods Minister, if I make there. I welcome the planned investment of a record £2.65 billion in the next two years to build and repair over 1000 flood defences, better protecting 52,000 properties across the country. Last month, over £1 million was pledged towards a number of schemes in north-west Cumbria and this includes money towards road surface work and a property flood resilience scheme just outside the city and this is something I have been pushing the environment agency to deliver since I entered this place and is now planned to be finished by winter, 2025.

£300,000 was also secured for the long mooted project. I've been told feasibility studies are due by the end of the summer. While I look forward to the conclusions, I am concerned that even if a path is identified, it may be 5-10 years until the scheme can actually be delivered. Tackling the risk from this killing not just be about creating ever higher and more expensive and imposing flood defences at the Caldew. With a range of measures in Carlisle and Exide to help take the water away from the city and by precious time for it to ease.

The Caldew scheme will be one of the largest schemes the environment agency has ever undertaken. It is vital to the lives of Carlisle's over 100,000 residents and the prosperity of a place that has been centre of trading in the north-west of England since before Roman times. I recognise that this Roman times. I recognise that this scheme will not be quick and I would urge the Minister to ensure that a suite of measures are employed in the interim to mitigate the immediate threat from the river Caldew.

This could include clearing vegetation that slows the flow of the river to the city. I also wish to talk about emergency planning. I am glad that further expansions of the flood warning provision had taken place in Carlisle, including two new flood warning areas at Warren Bridge combining 300 properties and I'm grateful for the text alerts that I receive on a regular basis. One issue that has been pointed out to me is the need for more information to be given to the public ahead of there being an incident and then they can see where the nearest emergency centre is planned to be in the event of a flood.

The first time the public will hear of these locations would be when a flood occurs in that case. The

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My honourable friend is making a

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My honourable friend is making a great point and sometimes these happen in the middle of the night happen in the middle of the night and it is hard for residents to respond and does she believe there respond and does she believe there has to be better coordination between local authorities and the environment agency to tackle some of this? I've heard concerns raised about private landowners. I wonder

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what she makes of that point. I am particularly aware that there are a number of different landowners that have responsibility for the maintenance of the riverbanks and that patchwork of responsibility does, as my honourable friend identifies, give rise to issues and I think on the issue of flood alerts, it would be desirable if more information were viable in advance of the book applying for such an eventuality and they have to be dynamic plans because as I highlighted, you could not get to the emergency sector because it was cut off.

I recognise that providing the information in advance will not be perfect but I think it would be beneficial for the information to be made available. If these locations were known, residents would have a better understanding of where to move to in the event of an emergency and begin to do so when that comes through. I would be grateful to the Minister if she could consider that point in heart response. In summary, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would urge haste.

I've already said we have ended another year in a five and that would present concerns from my constituency. As we passed the 20- year anniversary of the tragic 2005 year anniversary of the tragic 2005 floods and in January as we approach floods and in January as we approach the 10-year anniversary of the 2015 floods in December, it is vital be get on with delivering the schemes get on with delivering the schemes that are needed to keep our great border city safe and secure for many years to come.

years to come.
14:56
Emma Hardy Portrait Emma Hardy MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice, Labour)
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I call on the Minister, Emma Hunt.

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Thank you very much. I thank my honourable friend for contributing in this debate and happy birthday to in this debate and happy birthday to her Nan. I believe it was at the her Nan. I believe it was at the weekend. I'm happy to discuss the weekend. I'm happy to discuss the steps that can be taken and on a personal level, an excellent choice personal level, an excellent choice in making her the Member for Lau because she always lobbies me so because she always lobbies me so nicely.

It makes it difficult for me to ever say no. I spoke with the environment agency earlier today and they told me how engaged my honourable friend had been in flood risk reduction and I'm aware of her persistence with the lobbying. Protecting communities, homes, businesses, farmland is the priority and is more important than ever as climate change brings more extreme weather divinity. I've met with the Member for lale twice in the last your family and many times in formally and discussed the challenges faced by her constituency and I understand the full experience of flooding and I know full well that flooding of any kind is devastating for those affected.

My honourable friend has spoken in the House on the issue of flooding 20 years after the terrible 2005 floods, considered the worst in Carlisle since 1822, which, she said, tragically claimed the lives of three people. In 2015, Carlisle saw further devastation from Storm Desmond and I know this was raised last December and the Prime Minister was asked what assurances can be given about delivering flood defences and only last year, of course, Carlisle was badly affected again as I understand the urgency of my honourable friend.

The last government left this in a state of disrepair and I'm pleased to share the investment for this year between April 2025 and March 2036 includes over £1 million across main schemes in my honourable friend's assiduously alone. They are receiving £115,000 this financial year and 650,000 of that is allocated for Carlisle itself and I know my honourable friend expressed know my honourable friend expressed concern, particularly with the Caldew risk management scheme which will receive investment of £300,000 this year.

I hope that she was my honourable friend that the efforts to protect the properties in her constituency are firmly in place. My honourable friend mentions the Caldew Flood Risk Management Scheme and in 2031 there was a feasibility study conducted on further risk management strategies and the outcome was the option was not viable but there is no further feasibility study which is currently live and will provide other potential options for a flood risk management scheme which includes areas upstream of the city and the environment agency expects this to conclude this summer.

It has been great progress made in Carlisle in recent years with parts of Carlisle which of the high standards of river and flood protection of anywhere in the country and the new schemes are designed to 0.5% annual probability of flooding. My honourable friend highlighted the way in which the RSPB were awarded and helping return 8km of the river to its natural 8km of the river to its natural state. And the work of the Carlisle Action Flood Trip to keep flood preparedness in the spotlight.

Local Flood Action Groups play an important role and these groups give a voice to the local areas and communities to work in partnership with local authorities and the environment agency and I pay tribute to all of them around the country. Turning to the use of emergency shelters in the flooding event, it is of course local authorities who are responsible for setting up and managing rest centres during evacuations, providing temporary shelter and support for those who have been evacuated. Typically, these locations are not published in advance, I see locations depend on availability, the location of the emergency, and the number that we need to use it.

The concern is publishing in advance could risk people attending an active location or the location affected by the emergency itself and one of the centres was flooded itself and therefore unable to be used. However, we will work with the local authority to ensure a list of potential shelters is published and that can provide residents with notice of where the nearest shelters are set up and during offered emergency, local authorities and the environment agency were closely with partners to coordinate messaging, including the possible use of emergency alerts to affected communities and local groups to ensure residents of timely and consistent alerts during an emergency.

I spoke with the environment agency this morning and they informed me they would contact my honourable friend to discuss the location of emergency shelters in Carlisle and dealing with making people aware and also in the event of emergency, some of them might not be able to be used and we do not want that and so it is a balance and they are happy to talk in more they are happy to talk in more Carlisle will be receiving investment this year, and in delivering on the plan for change, this government is investing 2.65 billion over two years for the construction of new flood schemes and the maintenance of existing ones.

With this funding, a thousand schemes will continue to be supported, helping to protect 52,000 more homes and businesses with maintenance of flood defences also being prioritised to ensure a further 14,000 properties will have their level of protection restored. This means a total of 66,500 properties will benefit from this funding for this will help to secure jobs, deliver growth and protect against economic damage. We recognise that many of the flood defence have stalled over time. This is due to an outdated formula for is due to an outdated formula for money.

We have made available £14 million and this has been prioritised with 29 projects that are ready for delivery, ensuring nearby communities are protected as soon as possible, and the full list of schemes was announced on 31 March and can be found online, and we will continue to invest in new defences. Because we have inherited our flood assets, that has left 3000 environment agencies high We We want We want to We want to support We want to support this, reprioritising £108 million of investment in repairing and restoring critical assets.

We need to target repairs to assets in storms last winter and a further £72 million this year to continue repairs and ensure assets are resilient and reliable as possible to operate successfully. In addition, ELM schemes provide an opportunity to support flooding and coastal erosion through direct funding of actions providing a revenue screen to support landowners working with capital schemes and indirect schemes which will lead to watercourse maintenance requirements and increase the lifespan of assets. I would like to reassure my plan that we monitor agriculture for critical locations that have trigger points and when these trigger levels are met, vegetation is then removed.

If she has any concerns about those levels, that could be another conversation to continue with the Environment Agency. Protecting communities from flooding is one of the Secretary of State's five core priorities. This is why we set up a task force to provide oversight at the national flood resilience and preparedness. The task force brings together ministers from DEFRA and local government, the Cabinet Office and the Department of transport which demonstrates the priority of flood resilience that we have got so many ministers in the same room to discuss this.

It marks a new approach for bringing together representatives from national, regional and local government with interest groups. I was pleased to share the task force when it met to look at learning from flooding since last September, and the investment return. The discussions from this meeting are being taken forward through collaborative action groups and we are looking at flood warnings, flood recovery and flood warnings, flood recovery and flood insurance. The action groups will report back on their work to improve flood resilience to better support vulnerable communities because flood warnings is a concern that is frequently mentioned after a flooding event.

We are also providing support for rural communities. The government announced a £16 million boost to the drainage board fund which has been bolstered to a total of £91 million from the previously allocated 75 million. It will enable investment for assets and waterways to ensure they are fit for the future. More than 400,000 ha of agricultural land across England are expected to benefit, but turning to the sustainable fine initiative, we now have more than half of all farmland being managed on land management scheme.

We are including actions to strengthen natural floods and we announced on 11 March the current SFI budget has been allocated. We will continue to support to transition towards funding models, including through the thousands of existing things over the coming years and the reform offer. Now is the right time to research support delivering for nature and targeting public funds fairly and effectively towards priorities for food, farming and nature. The government will work with the sector to prioritise funding for future years so we can target those who will benefit most.

There will be a new and improved SFI on offer with details to follow in summer. The improved SFI scheme will be another step in this government's new deal for farmers to support profitability, and if my friend would like, I can share details. Looking ahead, I set out plans to look at a strategic vision and I am pleased to say that a consultation on reforms to this be launching shortly the spring. Challenges facing businesses and rural communities for flood protection.

Flood protection will continue to be subject to the annual regional flooding coastal committees process with local elected representatives

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as well as decisions from the upcoming spending review. I am grateful to her for giving

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I am grateful to her for giving way, and may I say that I really appreciate the work she is doing on appreciate the work she is doing on this. She is very willing to listen to those who have concerns. As part to those who have concerns. As part of the review could I ask her if it was possible to investigate the use of locks and weirs in river of locks and weirs in river catchments and how they are operated when rains are at a high level.

There are concerns that it may be possible and this is really an issue within the community that some weirs or locks may have been opened in different ways, and I think it is possible for there to be further consultation on this. Some catchments have different ways of lot being managed, and on the Thames, there are lock keepers who are paid employees, and other tributaries are not as organised as that may be individual landowners responsible.

It is quite a large tributary but the way the river is managed is quite different and less

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professionalised than the Thames. In terms of the flooding review,

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In terms of the flooding review, it probably wouldn't come to the scheme, but I heard the point that scheme, but I heard the point that going away to talk to officials about this, we can see whether this is taken into account with flood farms and how it is managed consistently and I can write to him consistently and I can write to him back on that if that is useful. So back on that if that is useful. So the governments record two-year investment in flood defences can better defend against flooding, and it will also boost economic growth and local communities where protecting businesses delivering new jobs and delivering a stable economy in the face of the increasing risk of flooding as a result of climate change.

Throughout our plan for change, this will deliver a decade of economic growth, and this government is committed to act to ensure that communities are better protected from flooding in the first place. We will continue to repair defences, draining systems and develop natural flood management schemes. The emergency services, the Environment Agency, local authorities, voluntary organisations and government departments stand ready as ever to support affected people in any future flooding event and I pay tribute to them all. It is a personal priority and a privilege to be the Minister responsible for flooding and I will continue working

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to make sure this country is more resilient to floods. Is the member for Carlisle mentioned her mother's 91st birthday, I think it is only appropriate that I wish Friedmans appropriate that I wish Friedmans very happy 91st birthday. The question is that this house to now question is that this house to now adjourn. The eyes have it. Order,
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15:18
This debate has concluded
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