Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Commons Chamber

Tuesday 27th October 2026

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11:33

Oral questions: Foreign, Commonwealth and Development

Don't Don't come Don't come to Don't come to the Don't come to the Secretary Don't come to the Secretary of State for foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs.

11:33

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Lisa Smart Mr. One, please, Mr. speaker.

11:33

Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)

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Mr. speaker, the Warsaw Security Forum. Earlier this month, I discussed with our allies our work to deter and disrupt threats to our to deter and disrupt threats to our democracies from foreign interference. And the Prime Minister announced that the UN General Assembly that, in line with the recommendations of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, will establish a National Centre for information defence to detect, deter and disrupt information attacks from hostile states. This is a very serious and important issue for our democracies, and all issue for our democracies, and all countries need to do more to tackle it.

11:34

Q1. What recent discussions he has had with European allies on tackling foreign interference in democratic processes internationally. (901717)

Lisa Smart Mr. Speaker, I'm very grateful to the Foreign Secretary for those remarks. But with Russian linked interference operations continuing to target democratic

11:34

Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)

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elections across Europe, does he feel current arrangements are sufficient? He will know that the European Democracy Shield is European Democracy Shield is developing new structures to coordinate action against foreign interference and disinformation. So what discussions has he had with our European partners about ensuring the UK is fully involved in those efforts, including the proposed European Centre for Democratic Resilience, so that we can better identify and respond to

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can better identify and respond to Russian attempts to undermine democratic elections across Europe. Well, look, I thank the hon. Lady raises a very, very important issue, Mr. Speaker, and I think governments across the world and indeed across Europe need to do more. Since October 2024, this government has sanctioned 106 entities and individuals

11:35

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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responsible for for delivering Russia's information warfare and it includes. In July this year, sanctioning Rybar, the media sanctioning Rybar, the media company resourced by the Russian state and responsible for spreading false narratives about Ukraine and interfering in European elections, interfering in European elections, including in Moldova. I hope the centre that the Prime Minister announced, indeed, I'm confident the centre, the Prime Minister announced, is something we will work on with our European partners to counter this grave threat to our

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to counter this grave threat to our democratic way of life, frankly, across the world. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

11:35

Gordon McKee MP (Glasgow South, Labour)

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For the decade, we have rightly been worried about the impact of misinformation on social media, fuelled by hostile foreign states. fuelled by hostile foreign states. But now millions of people get their information from AI chatbots. So can I ask the Secretary of State So can I ask the Secretary of State work he is doing with European allies to protect the information provided by AI systems during elections here and overseas?

11:36

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, I think my hon. Friend raises a really, really important issue. And if I may say, Mr. issue. And if I may say, Mr. Speaker, I read recently the Foreign Affairs Select Committee report on these issues, and that was a very, very important document. was a very, very important document. And I think he is absolutely right about countering all of the threats we face from AI, as well as taking advantage of the opportunities. And that's something that the new centre that the Prime Minister announced will definitely do so.

11:36

Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)

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Julian Lewis as the Foreign Secretary, accept that it would be a disservice to the democratic a disservice to the democratic process to identify attempts to interfere with it, with invalidation of the result. And does he, like the Prime Minister, now accept that whatever Russia tried to do, it did not have any decisive effect on the referendum whether to stay or leave the European Union.

11:36

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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I am the Prime Minister, have always accepted the result of the Brexit referendum. And it's Brexit referendum. And it's important to say that. Mr. Speaker, I do think it's important, whatever side we're on in that debate, though, or indeed debates across this House, that I think we all recognise that Russia is seeking to interfere all the time and disrupt and destabilise our democracy. And I know the hon. Gentleman has a proud record on these issues.

11:37

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Independent)

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Perran Moon As Mr. Speaker, last Wednesday, Georgia's Constitutional Wednesday, Georgia's Constitutional Court began hearings on a lawsuit brought by the ruling Georgian Dream party seeking to ban the country's five main opposition parties at a time when external authoritarian actors seek to undermine democratic institutions across Europe. What steps is the government taking with our European allies to respond to the deterioration of democracy in Georgia?

11:37

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary well, whether it's in Georgia or elsewhere, Mr. Speaker, and I'm glad my hon. Speaker, and I'm glad my hon. Friend raised this. It's incredibly important that we speak out in favour of democratic norms and ways of life. We know that we face more of a threat to democracy in the rule of law, really, than at any time since World War Two, from hostile actors across the world. And this government will bow to nobody in speaking out in favour of democracy and the values shared across this House.

11:38

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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Minister. Alicia Kearns. >> Minister. Alicia Kearns. >> Mr. speaker, Moscow's ships stalk our cables and Tehran's agents seek to assassinate on our soil. And last week, the Pentagon declared Confucius Institutes a threat to our national security. In stark contrast, the powers I secure to allow these weapons of the Chinese Communist Party to be closed here in the UK were scrapped by this government. So does the Foreign Secretary think that Washington has got it wrong? And if not, will the powers be reinstated and deployed? And while at it, will he expel every Iranian official with links, the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, and bring our allies together to freeze Russian and Belarusian tourist visas to protect us from their use of these visas to attack our country.

11:39

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Secretary. >> Secretary. >> Well, I welcome the hon. Lady to her place. And look, she talks eloquently about the threats we eloquently about the threats we face from across the world, whether it's Russia or Iran or the threats we face from China. And it is incredibly important. And this government will be absolutely resolute in countering these threats, whatever form they take. And frankly, and this is why this question is so relevant, Mr. Speaker. The the means of threats to our national life have changed. And they are not simply the threats we are used to in the past, but this is hybrid warfare is the modern threat, and we will absolutely counter it.

spokesperson.

11:39

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Foreign money can be used to influence money can be used to influence politics through sport. On the 17th of December last year, the government gave Roman Abramovich 90 days to hand over the proceeds of days to hand over the proceeds of the sale of Chelsea Football Club to benefit Ukrainians. 314 days later, that is still not happened. What is holding the government back from enforcing its own legal contract with Abramovich through the courts? When might Ukrainians who are fearful about the winter see some of this money? And in light of this, and questions over the ownership of Manchester City by Sheikh Mansour, what conversations does the Foreign Secretary had with the Prime Minister or Culture Secretary about ensuring that overseas investors are fit and proper persons to own English clubs?

11:40

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well. >> Well. >> Let me directly deal with the most substantive part of his question. I think it is shared question. I think it is shared across this House that the ill gotten gains of of Russia and Russian oligarchs must be used for the right purposes, not the wrong purposes. I think that not just on the question he raised, and I want to be careful what I say about that because of legal processes. But we are absolutely determined to take action. On the question he raised around Chelsea. But more broadly, one of the things that we will be urging in the coming months is the EU partners, and in Britain, US moving on Russian sovereign assets more generally, because we know that one of the most important things we need to do is give proper support to Ukraine through this winter and beyond.

And Russian sovereign assets are a very, very ideal way to do that.

11:41

Q2. What assessment he has made of future levels of uranium enrichment planned by Iran. (901718)

John Cooper thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question number two, please. Minister. please. Minister. >> Well, Mr. Speaker, we have raised the UK's serious concerns about Iran's nuclear program, about Iran's nuclear program, including the Foreign Secretary directly with Foreign Minister Araghchi. Iran has accumulated over

11:41

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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400kg of uranium enriched to 60%, a level which goes beyond any credible civilian justification. credible civilian justification. And Iran's ongoing lack of cooperation led us with 22 countries to vote to report Iran to the UN Security Council for its continued non-compliance and refusal to allow inspectors access, and a negotiated solution remains and a negotiated solution remains the way forward to address Iran's nuclear program. And we are working with partners in that regard.

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with partners in that regard. John Cooper thank you, Mr. Speaker. Iran is tipped away towards a bomb. There is an extensive threat for our friend and ally Israel, and I cannot understand how glad handing the despotic Iranian regime and making fake TikTok videos in New York fake TikTok videos in New York helps world peace. Surely we can do more. Minister. more. Minister.

11:42

John Cooper MP (Dumfries and Galloway, Conservative)

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With the greatest respect, Mr. Speaker, the Foreign Secretary raised very seriously at those highest levels Iran's nuclear programme and a series and a series of other issues, just as previous foreign secretaries have raised serious concerns directly with Iran, including many on his side. We are absolutely clear Iran must never absolutely clear Iran must never have a nuclear weapon, and we are committed to working with us to ensure that it does not George Freeman.

11:42

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Question three, sir.

11:42

Q3. What assessment his Department has made of the level of strategic importance of the polar regions. (901720)

The polar regions are areas of growing strategic importance where geopolitics, climate and national geopolitics, climate and national security collide. Our National Security Strategy identified the Arctic and Antarctic as emerging areas of strategic cooperation. I discussed this with my international counterparts and the international counterparts and the hon. Member and the APPG polar at the Arctic Circle Assembly in Reykjavik earlier this month to protect the UK's interests. We know protect the UK's interests. We know we must adapt. It's why I recently launched our updated UK Arctic Policy Framework.

11:43

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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George Freeman. Thank you sir. It's good to be back. Given the accelerating rate of Arctic sea ice melt, we're not many years away from an ice free summer in the Arctic, with huge implications for

11:43

George Freeman MP (Mid Norfolk, Conservative)

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sea levels, ocean currents, weather systems, and growing commercial pressures for exploitation in the in the Arctic. I'm delighted with in the Arctic. I'm delighted with the Minister for bass to be back chairing the all party group for Polar regions and to join the Minister at the Arctic Assembly. Minister at the Arctic Assembly. Would she agree with me that both in the Arctic and the Arctic, not only are we now on the front line only are we now on the front line of some very important science for global planetary sustainability, but geo diplomacy and technology and an increasing Wild West, which this country has a major role to play in helping to regulate and convene good players in Preston.

11:43

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Member for this important question, and I know he's got a long history on speaking up about these issues. He's absolutely about these issues. He's absolutely correct. Shifting geopolitical and climate dynamics in the Arctic and Antarctic are intensifying Antarctic are intensifying strategic interests in new economic opportunities in the polar regions. These bring with them challenges and pose risks to regional governance and to UK interests overseas and at home, including challenges to our security and stability, domestic resilience and supply chains. This is why we've updated our Arctic policy framework. It's why I urge members from across the House to join the hon.

Member and join the APPG polar regions to have cross-party consensus on this work.

11:44

Jessica Toale MP (Bournemouth West, Labour)

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Jessica Toale thank you, Mr. >> Jessica Toale thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, I visited the National Oceanography Centre with the hon. Member opposite to learn the hon. Member opposite to learn about the UK's leadership in polar science and a real highlight. I got to meet Boaty Mcboatface. I wondered if the Minister could tell us a bit more about how the FCDO is. Is coordinating cross-government work to deal with these emerging climate and security threats, as well as how we can leverage the UK's leadership in science and technology, climate finance, diplomacy and defence to this end. Yeah.

11:45

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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Minister. question, and I regret that I wasn't able to join the trip yesterday to to see all of our capabilities. She's absolutely right. Our climate and research work in the polar regions is vital. We have cross-government work on this. We've updated the UK's Arctic policy framework to work on a number of these matters. It sets out our assessment of the key developments in the region. It recognises the Arctic as an area of strategic importance and that one that's vital for UK national security and domestic resilience. But it also makes sure that we're doing our part in the climate resilience of the region and making sure that our world leading scientists are there and have the support they need to make sure we play our part in the world.

play our part in the world.

11:46

Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)

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Wendy Morton Shadow Minister. Arctic ambitions and the risk of Beijing and Moscow dominating emerging shipping routes. China is an Arctic Council observer, and two Chinese nationals were arrested in Norway in May on suspicion of espionage. So, Mr. Speaker, what concrete, concrete action is the Minister and the Foreign Secretary taking with Norway and our NATO allies to protect Britain's security, trade and undersea infrastructure from hostile Chinese activity and to prevent research and investment becoming cover for Beijing's Arctic mission.

11:46

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> I thank the hon. Lady for that question. We're clear there's no UK security without Arctic security. We're working closely with our partners in the region that includes Norway. We will contest malign and destabilising behaviours and activity that threaten our interests and the stability of the region. The United Kingdom is stepping up its investment in and capabilities for defence and deterrence in the High North. Deepening the defence cooperation with allies through our NATO first approach and the Joint Expeditionary Force to respond rapidly to the emerging threats that are in the region. Rachel Taylor number four, please, Mr.

Speaker.

11:47

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Mr. speaker. answer questions four, five, nine and 16 together. On the 8th of September, I announced new measures to tackle settlement expansion, including a sanctions regime to target those that support, facilitate or profit from illegal settlement activity. We will do everything in our power to stop the prospects of a two state solution being destroyed by the expansion of illegal settlements.

11:47

Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)

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Rachel Taylor thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Israeli human rights organisation Yesh Din has found organisation Yesh Din has found that between 2005 and 2023, more than 93% of investigations into settler violence in the West Bank were closed without indictment, with just 3% resulting in convictions. With the olive harvest underway, Palestinian farmers continue to face threats from settler violence. Will the Minister update the House on what steps the government is taking to protect Palestinian farmers and ensure those responsible for violence are held to account?

11:48

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Janet Daby my hon. My hon. >> Janet Daby my hon. My hon. >> Friend asks. My hon. Friend asked a really important question. Mr. speaker, we have stepped in as the UK to support Palestinian farmers who lost their work permits in Green Line Israel. But I think the broader point that my hon. Friend makes is the most important one. I'm very conscious that today is Election Day in Israel, and these are matters for the Israeli people. Whichever government, and it is their choice is elected. Today, I hope we can work with them to counter the settler terrorism that we see, because I think it is in nobody's interests, not least it is not in the interests of the security of Israel.

11:48

Nesil Caliskan. Happy birthday. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. I welcome the government's new sanctions to government's new sanctions to address illegal settlement expansion in the West Bank. And of course, we've all watched in horror as Palestinians face injustice and ethnic cleansing. Indeed, a Human

11:49

Nesil Caliskan MP (Barking, Labour)

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Rights Watch report found that Israeli forces have committed war crimes in the West Bank. Mr. speaker, can I ask my right hon. Friend, will he, as I'm sure he Friend, will he, as I'm sure he will stand by his words to this House, to not only call out injustice and suffering, but to act. injustice and suffering, but to act. And with that in mind, will the government sanction Israeli Defence Minister Katz and Major General

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Minister Katz and Major General Bruce, who are implicated in these crimes? Well, let me. Join the speaker in wishing my

11:49

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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hon. Friend Happy birthday and say how well informed Mr. Speaker, is the the. I credit his staff myself. Mr. speaker, in all seriousness, the situation in the West Bank is the situation in the West Bank is horrifying and we are witnessing unprecedented levels of violence, including settler terrorism and indeed ethnic cleansing in some indeed ethnic cleansing in some areas of the West Bank. I'm not going to speculate on future designations of specific individuals, but I do say to my hon.

Friend and others that we laid legislation this month to expand the global human rights sanctions

11:50

Janet Daby MP (Lewisham East, Labour)

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regime to target those responsible for serious violations of international humanitarian law, and

11:50

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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11:50

Janet Daby MP (Lewisham East, Labour)

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international humanitarian law, and we will use those powers. Debbie. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question number five.

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Nope. Same question. OK, I'll do it again. Thank you. So I thank the Minister just for So I thank the Minister just for what he's how he's been responding so far. Obviously, the E1 is a so far. Obviously, the E1 is a further terrifying situation for Palestinians who are vulnerable and Palestinians who are vulnerable and have no protections. But can the Minister or Secretary of State really just say what sanctions are being put in place at present, and what more they're doing, just to ensure that those working on the E1 scheme are indeed sanctioned?

11:50

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, I think my hon. Friend raises a really, really important issue, which we have discussed in issue, which we have discussed in this House before, Mr. Speaker, which is the E1 development is a direct threat to the prospect of a direct threat to the prospect of a two state solution. And I do want to be completely clear, and I said this on the day of the closing of the tenders, that those individuals and businesses who proceed with bids for E1 construction tenders risk facing the full force of UK sanctions. This is why this is much more than symbolism.

What we are doing. It is about substantively stopping the destruction of the prospect of a two state solution.

11:51

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan MP (Tooting, Labour)

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To Rosena Allin-Khan. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we speak here today in the West Bank, right now, Israel is yet again pursuing its brutal policy of pursuing its brutal policy of collective punishment. With Hebron sealed off and over a thousand people due to have their homes people due to have their homes demolished imminently. I welcome our government boldly placing sanctions on illegal Israeli settlements and with Israelis going to the polls today. Will the Minister commit to maintaining the pressure until illegal settlement expansion ends once and for all? And we can truly, truly see the two state solution that we all dream of.

11:51

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, my hon. eloquence on these issues, and I and I want to agree with her. Mr. speaker, I think it's right to say speaker, I think it's right to say that the very important finding that we made was that the occupation was illegal, and not just the settlements, and therefore, in furtherance of a two state solution, the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and and in furtherance of our policy of a two state solution, we are going to take action in relation to the economic relationships we have. But my hon. Friend is exactly right about this, which is it is about bringing peace to Palestinians and

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Israelis. Sarah Green. Mr. speaker, the Foreign

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Mr. speaker, the Foreign Secretary mentioned people running the risk of the full force of the sanctions regime. Given the new sanctions regime. Given the new powers the government now has to sanction those funding and building illegal settlements. Can I ask illegal settlements. Can I ask about the E1 tenders, which will be opened on the 19th of November, and

11:52

Sarah Green MP (Chesham and Amersham, Liberal Democrat)

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opened on the 19th of November, and whether the Foreign Secretary will commit to sanctioning those companies bidding before that date? Not once the bulldozers arrive? Yes.

11:53

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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There's a sort of general approach that governments of both approach that governments of both parties have had, which is not to speculate on sanctions and designations before we actually do them. But I would just want to say them. But I would just want to say very, very clearly to the hon. Lady, because I'm glad she's raised this issue. We are determined to act, to do all we can to prevent E1 from happening. The settlement building in E1 happening, and we've brought the sanctions regime, not the sanctions regime that's coming in in the next six months, but the extension of the sanctions regime, precisely so that we can take swift action law.

Secretary.

11:53

Chris Law MP (Dundee Central, Scottish National Party)

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Pledged to take action against specific companies who provide services for settlement expansion in the occupied Palestinian territories. Dalit Group, which supports legal settlements through the provision of refuelling services to Israeli military vehicles and operation of fuel stations in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, has been flagged by the UN for human rights concerns and could receive over £200 million in revenue through its majority stake in Ithaca Energy. If the Rosebank field is approved, given the Foreign Secretary has already said the approval of Rosebank would be climate vandalism, what does he have to say about profits from Scotland's oil?

Supporting illegal settlement expansion in the West Bank.

11:54

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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I think I'm going to stick to my lane, as they say. Mr. speaker, look, I, I don't we don't talk about specific companies in about specific companies in relation to sanctions before we before we take action, but the hon. Gentleman should be in no doubt about the purposes purpose of our sanction regime, sanctions regime, which is to prevent the growth of illegal settlements, which is destroying the prospects of a two state solution.

11:54

Manuela Perteghella MP (Stratford-on-Avon, Liberal Democrat)

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And will to put together. >> And will to put together. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alongside the expansion. >> Of illegal settlements, as we heard, there has been growing heard, there has been growing concern about violence perpetrated by extremist settlers against Palestinian communities in the West Bank. Does the Secretary of State believe that the UK's current response is sufficient? And what further steps is he prepared to take to hold those responsible to account?

11:55

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary well. response of the international community as a whole has been sufficient. And that's why I made the statement I did on the 8th of the statement I did on the 8th of September. And in my department across government, we are continuing to think, how do we tackle the injustices we face across the world, not just in relation to the West Bank? And we will use all the powers at our disposal, including conversations with whatever government the people of Israel choose to elect. To say this settler terrorism must end. And I think that is shared right across this House.

11:55

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

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Doctor Ellie Chowns. 14th of October, the UN's International Commission of Inquiry into the OpEd in Israel published its latest report. It concluded, its latest report. It concluded, and I quote from paragraph 43 Israeli military operations in the Israeli military operations in the West Bank since the 7th of October 2023 constitute a course of conduct that forms part of a widespread and systematic attack against the civilian population. It continues that sexual and gender based violence and targeted attacks against children form part of that coordinated action on the part of the Israeli military. This is not just settler terrorism.

This is action of the current Israeli government. Can I ask the Secretary of State, has he read that report of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry? Does he recognise its conclusions? How can he continue to treat the current Israeli government as an ally in that context? And what further action will he take to ensure that the UK is not complicit in these abuses?

11:56

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Secretary well, look. >> I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I think she will have I have seen that report and I and I undertake to to to read it undertake to to to read it comprehensively. Look, I would say to her, the reason we took the actions we did on the 8th of September was precisely to say, we will not stand by in silence as the suffering continues in Gaza and the West Bank. You know, we called out increasing evidence of war crimes in Gaza. Gaza. We called out ethnic cleansing by settler terrorists in the West Bank.

And we're going to act, and we will and we will work with her and and others right across this House to make sure we take the maximum possible action to get what we want to see, which is peace, security, and dignity for Israelis and Palestinians.

11:57

Dr Simon Opher MP (Stroud, Labour)

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Simon Opher thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. Just over a year ago, the Member for Bury St Edmunds and I were detained and then deported by Israeli authorities as deported by Israeli authorities as we tried to enter the West Bank. And just yesterday, the Member for Norwich South, Arbroath and the Norwich South, Arbroath and the former MP Sam Tarry were similarly detained by Israeli authorities for eight hours whilst they tried to enter the West Bank. Will the Minister join me in condemning these cases and outline what steps the government will take to ensure that MPs can visit the occupied West Bank without obstruction or intimidation?

11:57

Well, I'm glad my hon. because we obviously deeply concerned about the denial of entry to the West Bank for for two members of Parliament and, I believe, one member of the Scottish believe, one member of the Scottish Parliament as well, Mr. Speaker. Of course, we have raised this issue with the Israeli authorities and with the Israeli authorities and been in touch with the MPs to offer assistance. And I would say, you know more broadly that it's very, very important that members of this House, as they go about their business, not just in the UK but business, not just in the UK but internationally, have free access so that they can actually do their duties to this House.

11:58

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, thank.

11:58

You, Mr. Speaker. The government has declared the occupation unlawful, and its measures on settlements depend on reliable settlements depend on reliable evidence of what is actually happening on the ground. In April, the Foreign Office unit that the Foreign Office unit that tracked potential breaches of international law by Israel was closed because of cuts, with the work said to pass to a different work said to pass to a different team. Which team now does that work and how many officials does it have? assure.

11:58

John Milne MP (Horsham, Liberal Democrat)

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Him, Mr. Speaker, that this work carries on. We have excellent civil servants who work on all these issues, including potential breaches of international breaches of international humanitarian law. We take these issues incredibly seriously as a department and as a government.

11:59

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Sam Carling. I've been in Warsaw, in Ukraine, discussing defence and security with key allies. There is no bigger test of our values and our commitment to European security than Ukraine, and we will continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Ukrainian people. We are also committed to building a stronger Europe and a stronger NATO as the ultimate guarantee of peace and security. security. Allison Gardner the attack on the then British prime minister's home last year was linked to Russian backed proxies attempting to undermine our democracy. Mr. speaker, I'm deeply concerned that our nation has become so anaesthetised by online disinformation that we collectively shrugged and carried on doomscrolling.

As such, I commend the creator of the National Centre for Information Defence to Counter Cognitive Warfare. But given the continued threat of Russian cognitive warfare, I asked the Foreign Secretary how we can cooperate with the European partners to counter disinformation, shut down the networks and hold shut down the networks and hold technology companies to account.

11:59

Dr Allison Gardner MP (Stoke-on-Trent South, Labour)

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Yeah. European Union, but my hon. Friend speaks incredibly eloquently about these issues. Look on the information point we want to do. As I said in an earlier answer, more work with the European Union on these questions, and we'll be saying more about this in the coming weeks. But my hon. Friend also raises the wider issues. Hybrid warfare is not just about information. Information and misinformation. It is about misinformation. It is about sabotage, espionage, cyber attacks and a whole range of issues. As we saw from the recent incident in Leipzig. And we need to be Leipzig.

And we need to be incredibly vigilant about it.

12:00

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Sir Andrew Mitchell. is holding with European countries, is he also emphasising the vital role that soft power and the international development Budget play in promoting security? Does he realise that since this government's cuts to international development spend, we now allocate development spend, we now allocate less for Africa out of the development Budget than we allocate development Budget than we allocate to UK postcodes from that same Budget for first year asylum seeker costs.

12:01

Rt Hon Sir Andrew Mitchell MP (Sutton Coldfield, Conservative)

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UN Secretary.

12:01

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, the right hon. Gentleman speaks with enormous authority on these issues and has a proud record these issues and has a proud record on these questions, and I and I couldn't agree with him more on the substantive part of his question substantive part of his question about the role that international development plays. And he may know development plays. And he may know that as part of our G20 presidency next year, we have committed, in fiscally constrained times to seek to do more on the combination of the debt burden, climate breakdown, and the need to grow and tackle poverty that that developing countries are facing.

We have to accept the fiscal constraints we face, but that doesn't mean we can't act, including through the multilateral development banks. And I look forward to working with him and members across this House on these issues.

12:01

Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)

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Jim Emily Thornberry, chair of the Select Committee. Thank you very much, madam. >> Learned a great. >> Deal in my recent trip to Ukraine last month. I learned that the Ukrainians see themselves as Europeans. They know who their Europeans. They know who their friends are. They are incredibly grateful to Britain, but they are also very disappointed at the fact also very disappointed at the fact that as they hit this very difficult winter and we know that they are going to need about £90 billion in order to get through it. There are £200 billion of Russian assets frozen in Europe.

What can we do as Britain to ensure that those assets are unlocked and used in Ukraine is one way, perhaps to lead by example? Is there something we can do about the £25 billion worth of Russian assets that we have in Ukraine, in the UK, and, of course, the 2.5 billion Chelsea assets that I think we're heading

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for an anniversary of. When Abramovich was told that he had to hand them over now. Yes.

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Yes. Well, she speaks. A good deal of sense, as always.

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A good deal of sense, as always. Mr. speaker, my my hon. Friend, on these questions on the fundamental point, as I said in an earlier point, as I said in an earlier answer, this issue of Russian sovereign assets is something we are determined to tackle. She may

12:03

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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are determined to tackle. She may know there is a renewed push in the EU to take action on it. I have said to my EU counterparts that we are determined to act with them, and it goes to the broader point that she raises, which is Russia is seeking to test our resolve on Ukraine. We must show that we will absolutely stand with the Ukrainian people until they prevail. And there is a there's a number of elements to that. But one of them is this financial question, and we are determined to act. Mr. speaker, the Prime Minister told President Zelensky recently that he stood, quote, in complete solidarity with Ukraine over President Trump's dirty diesel deal with the Russian imports of Russian diesel.

And I support the Prime Minister on that.

12:03

Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)

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He just mentioned to earlier question about hitting Russia in question about hitting Russia in the pocket, as it were. So why is it that is his government that is it that is his government that is still importing jet fuel and diesel, albeit through countries? They've weakened the sanctions against weakened the sanctions against Russian diesel and fuel. So I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that is a complete inconsistency in UK complete inconsistency in UK foreign policy. I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but he's wrong about this. We've actually introduced a phased ban on maritime service in relation to gas.

And that licence is expires in January. So I just want to sort of reassure him on that point. But going but going beyond that, I am constantly seeking ways in my department with colleagues across government, to ratchet up the government, to ratchet up the economic pressure on Russia. That must be our aim. And I say to all of our allies, including the United of our allies, including the United States, that must be our aim, because that is the way we get a successful outcome in this conflict.

successful outcome in this conflict.

12:04

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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David Reed Shadow Minister Thank. months, our European allies have become increasingly forthright in publicly naming hostile states responsible for attacks on their countries. Yet Britain appears reluctant to do the same, and the Foreign Secretary has spoken very clearly about hybrid war. Now, over the weekend, it was reported that the crippling cyber attack on

12:05

David Reed MP (Exmouth and Exeter East, Conservative)

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Jaguar Land Rover was state sponsored. So does the Foreign Secretary agree that failing to Secretary agree that failing to publicly attribute such attacks only emboldens our adversaries? And more importantly, will he now name the state believed to be responsible for this unprecedented attack on British industry?

12:05

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary I. say to him is we're absolutely happy to name those who are engaging in engaging in this, engaging in this, in this information warfare. And I've talked a lot in this session about Russia and about what it is doing. And the Prime Minister could not have been more eloquent at the UN General Assembly in talking about the over £1 billion a year that Russia spends on on information warfare. I do say to the hon. Gentleman I welcome him to his place, but I think there's actually cross-party agreement on this. We all want to tackle the information warfare that we face, and I look forward to working with members

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across the House in doing so. Liberal Democrat spokesperson Calum Miller thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Calum Miller thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our defence and our economy are closely tied and both depend on our relationship with our closest neighbours. The Prime Minister wants to have an honest conversation with the public about Brexit. That begins with an honest Brexit. That begins with an honest assessment of its damage. The Conservatives hard Brexit is costing the Treasury up to £90

12:06

Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)

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costing the Treasury up to £90 billion a year in lost tax revenues. The biggest lever we can pull to reverse that damage would be to join the single market and a customs union that would deliver the revenues we need to cut taxes, grow our defence spending and invest in public services. The Prime Minister wants us to be led by evidence. So may I ask the Foreign Secretary, is the government conducting its own impact assessment into the benefits of joining the single market and the customs union? If not, why not?

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And if so, can you confirm when it will be published? Yes. Well, I'm. Not going to go all the way with

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Not going to go all the way with the hon. Gentleman, but I, but I, but I, but I do, but I do. But, but but but I. Sorry. That was an but but I. Sorry. That was an unfortunate turn of phrase. But look what I do say to him in all. In all seriousness, Mr. Speaker, is

12:07

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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In all seriousness, Mr. Speaker, is the status quo. We've had ten years of looking at the status quo and the Brexit deal we have at the moment, and that Brexit deal is not serving our country well enough. And so people in this House have to make a decision, which is do they think the status quo is right? We should hang on to that or can we do better? Now, I think the most important date for us in government at this moment is November the 20th, which is our EU summit, where we are going to do better on trade, on defence and security, and on all of those issues.

And parties on all sides have to decide, you know, depending on what they they think

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about this. Do they think the status quo is right? We think we can do better and that's what we're going to do. Wendy Chamberlain question.

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Wendy Chamberlain question. Minister. Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And we are all deeply alarmed by the systematic discrimination and exclusion of women and girls from public life, education, employment public life, education, employment and decision making in Afghanistan. And that is why we are also

12:08

Q7. What support his Department is providing to Afghan women and girls. (901724)

And that is why we are also providing 105 million a year to support the Afghan people. And our aid reached 5 million Afghans last year, including 3 million women and girls. And we continue to press the Taliban directly on women's rights. And we work through our international partnerships to raise international partnerships to raise these crucially important issues.

12:08

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Wendy Chamberlain. Sara Polo to discuss violence against women and girls in conflict areas, including in Afghanistan. And whilst many aspects of the National Action Plan for women, peace and Security are encouraging, academics such as Doctor Polo have pointed out that there are areas for improvement, such as including victims of non-sexual violence in EAP initiatives. So can I ask the Minister what discussion has he had with academics in relation to the with academics in relation to the NEP, and how can academics engage further?

12:08

Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)

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Will we engage with a wide range of experts on these issues? And I certainly would welcome a chance to discuss these matters with the academics she references. But I can absolutely assure the department engage with a huge range of civil society and expert organisations. That's very important in informing our work on these issues.

12:09

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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So the Select Committee. Speaker. >> Not just. >> Afghanistan where we. >> See a rollback in. Protection around women and girls. >> Last week I was in Sierra Leone and I was there working with the parliamentarians there to try and

12:09

Sarah Champion MP (Rotherham, Labour)

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prevent sexual based violence. Part of that trip, we went to the maternal Health unit in Freetown. maternal Health unit in Freetown. There, the UK for the last 20 years has been supporting the health industry. We cut all of our funding industry. We cut all of our funding to that last year. This now means that there is no money for procurement. There is no money for any health care in that country. So I asked FCDO Ministers, what are we I asked FCDO Ministers, what are we actually going to do for countries where we have cut all of our funding to help them transition in a meaningful way, rather than presenting them basically with a death sentence?

12:10

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Minister. champion on these issues, even before her time chairing the committee, and she and I have discussed these issues on on many, many occasions. And we always many occasions. And we always welcome a conversation with her about these matters. And I'm sure the Minister for Africa, and indeed my colleague who works on preventing sexual violence, would

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preventing sexual violence, would be happy to sit down and discuss these issues with her. Douglas McAllister question number eight, please, Mr. Speaker. Minister.

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Will, Mr. speaker, we take all allegations of arbitrary detention very seriously, considering all available information and any opinions that are issued by the UN working Group on Arbitrary detention, and our support is detention, and our support is tailored to each individual and may include raising welfare or concerns about process where needed and about process where needed and reflecting our commitment to supporting British nationals detained. We appointed Alistair Burt, our Honourable Alistair Burt, as our first envoy for complex,

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as our first envoy for complex, constant detentions to work on these matters, and I'm working with him very closely on this. Douglas McAllister thank you, Mr. Speaker. My West Dunbartonshire constituent, Jack Hale, was released on bail 26 days ago, but Jack tar is by no means free. Mr. speaker, whilst he may have walked out of Tihar jail, having endured 3254 days of illegal detention, torture and abuse, he still cannot return home to his family in Dumbarton and still faces eight outstanding cases and the death penalty. So has the Minister over the past 26 days escalated Jack the past 26 days escalated Jack case to the highest diplomatic level?

12:11

Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)

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Mr. will. Mr. speaker, I can confirm that most recently, the Foreign Secretary raised his case with his Indian counterpart on the 24th of September at the UN General Assembly. And I, I would, you know, be very clear, Mr. Speaker, that we recognise the immense toll that nine years in detention has taken on Mr. Johal and his family, and also thank him for his advocacy on behalf of his constituent. Obviously, that release on bail is a welcome development, but we a welcome development, but we recognise that there are eight cases remaining outstanding and it's crucial those processes are resolved as quickly as possible.

resolved as quickly as possible. With India's independent legal system, we consistently raise concerns about his case at every concerns about his case at every appropriate opportunity.

12:12

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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So Iain Duncan Smith. have been detained now for 18 nearly 19 years without due process by the UAE. The reality is the UAE is also supporting a huge amount of

12:12

Rt Hon Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP (Chingford and Woodford Green, Conservative)

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terrorism in Sudan, responsible for the huge amount of loss of life in Sudan. And to make even worse Sudan. And to make even worse things. They've nominated Lana Nisbet from the UAE to be to take over as secretary general. Can I over as secretary general. Can I say? Apart from demanding the release of Ron Cornelius and his release of Ron Cornelius and his partner also condemn the UAE for their involvement in in Sudan their involvement in in Sudan brutally and to block their nomination, who should never be allowed to take over as Secretary general in the UN.

12:13

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Minister well, Mr. Speaker, as he knows, I take the case of Ryan he knows, I take the case of Ryan Cornelius and Charles Ridley very seriously, as I do any of these other related cases. I have raised other related cases. I have raised that case with the high levels and will continue to do so. And indeed have discussed it with our envoy, Alistair Burt. I'm very happy to discuss it further with him. And he knows that on Sudan. The international community, including this country, has to take more to tackle this crisis. And yesterday, my hon.

Friend announced further sanctions against suspected perpetrators of sexual violence and other atrocities, including in El Fasher, and we continue to raise concerns with all of those countries who are involved in this conflict in any way, to urge them

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to deescalate, to stop armed supplies and to bring peace to Sudan. Minister Lincoln Jopp. Thank you,

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Minister Lincoln Jopp. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When President Trump Mr. Speaker. When President Trump met Xi Jinping last month, the US president raised with the chairman the case of imprisoned British the case of imprisoned British citizen Jimmy Lai. Has the Minister

12:14

Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)

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had a readout from that conversation? And what can he tell us and the House of his own efforts

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to bring about Jimmy Lai's release? Yeah. Mr.

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Mr. Well, Mr. Speaker, the the Foreign Secretary and I take this incredibly seriously, but the Prime Minister also raised this issue Minister also raised this issue with President Trump. And I repeat, Mr. Speaker, as I have on a number of occasions, that we condemn in of occasions, that we condemn in the strongest terms the politically motivated prosecution of Jimmy Lai. The national security law was

12:14

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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The national security law was imposed on Hong Kong to silence China's critics. We know that at 78, 20 year sentence is tantamount to a life sentence. We're deeply concerned for his health. It's a priority for the government, and we raise it at every possible opportunity, both directly with China and with other partners, to ensure that that case is raised.

12:14

Q10. What steps his Department is taking to help improve the humanitarian situation in Palestine and Gaza. (901727)

Brenda. Jess. Speaker. >> Minister. >> What? >> With permission. >> Mr. Speaker. I will answer

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Mr. Speaker. I will answer questions ten and 21 together. Over three years we have seen a devastating man made humanitarian devastating man made humanitarian crisis unfold in Gaza. The UK is committed to improving humanitarian conditions in Palestine, and we

12:15

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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will provide £88 million in humanitarian and early recovery support this financial year to support the delivery of essential support the delivery of essential healthcare, clean water, sanitation and hygiene services. The UN General Assembly last month, the UK, General Assembly last month, the UK, Jordan and Qatar co-hosted a meeting focussed on driving action on humanitarian access and on humanitarian access and healthcare. We issued a call to action urging the government of Israel to allow and facilitate

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Israel to allow and facilitate rapid and unimpeded humanitarian access throughout Gaza. Mr. speaker, Palestinian children are the only children in the world who are systematically prosecuted in military courts. These courts do not meet juvenile justice standards and Save the Children have found that at every stage of detention, from arrest to interrogation to transfer to incarceration, Israeli soldiers and officials have inflicted physical, mental and emotional abuse and torture on children. So what action torture on children. So what action is this government taking with our international partners to prevent the abuse of well over 300 Palestinian children who are currently being held in Israeli military detention?

12:16

Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)

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Can I first of all, thank my hon. Friend for drawing attention to this incredibly important topic. Reports that hundreds of Palestinian children are being detained and many of them, as he says, mistreated in Israeli military detention, are horrifying. Children's rights must be upheld in accordance with international law. Children must only be detained in line with internationally agreed juvenile justice standards. And we call for an end to military call for an end to military detention where it is incompatible with these principles. So we continue to call on Israel to grant continue to call on Israel to grant the ICRC immediate, unrestricted access to all detention facilities.

And we raise this with Israeli And we raise this with Israeli authorities in September.

12:16

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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David Williams thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the scale of civilian suffering in Gaza and the occupied Palestinian territories, could the Minister please outline what discussions have taken place and will take place with international partners to ensure international humanitarian law is upheld and humanitarian workers can work safely? Minister.

12:17

David Williams MP (Stoke-on-Trent North, Labour)

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So, Mr. Speaker, Gaza remains one of the deadliest places on

12:18

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

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earth to deliver aid, and we have seen countless incidents involving humanitarian personnel over the past three years. The UK is a

12:17

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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past three years. The UK is a member of the Australia led ministerial group that developed the declaration for the Protection of Humanitarian Personnel and of Humanitarian Personnel and lobbied other states to join. A total of 132 states have now signed this declaration. And just last this declaration. And just last month, the Foreign Secretary met with Australia and others at the UN General Assembly to maintain momentum and drive collective

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momentum and drive collective action to address this fundamental issue. Monica Harding Mr. Speaker, 340 children in Gaza have died since the cease fire of last year. That's an average of almost one per day, and nearly half of them near the yellow line. Aid workers call it the kill zone. Unicef tell me that

12:17

Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)

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100% of children are showing signs of stress because of trauma, hunger and risk of attack. Attack from and risk of attack. Attack from every side, from drones above, fire at them and unexploded ordnance below them. They're facing malnutrition and have not had a malnutrition and have not had a formal education for three years. So what will the Foreign Secretary do? Whoever is elected today to do? Whoever is elected today to ensure that Palestinian children are protected, that sustainable humanitarian aid gets in, that the terms of the ceasefire are obeyed, that education is provided and Palestinian are given the chance to heal.

12:18

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Lady speaks incredibly passionately Lady speaks incredibly passionately and powerfully about exactly the reasons why we have declared the situation a moral emergency. As she situation a moral emergency. As she rightly says, on average, four people have died every day since the ceasefire, over 300 of them children, the civilians and children of Palestine, will continue to be an enormous priority for our bilateral engagement with the Israeli government. Whoever the Israeli people pick. But the humanitarian situation could not be more severe, and she can be assured that we will continue to press the need for unfettered access on the Israeli government.

Once elected.

12:19

Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)

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Vikki Slade thank you, Mr. >> Friend has already talked. >> About the impact on children. But the. There is also a significant. Impact on the significant. Impact on the reproductive facilities, which mean that there are more miscarriages, more children dying at birth, and more children dying at birth, and effectively the raising of the next generation in Gaza. That surely must constitute a war crime. What is the government doing to work with international.

12:19

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Partners to ensure that the future of Gaza can actually exist? future of Gaza can actually exist? If there are no children? >> Minister Mr. Speaker, so we did hold an event at Unga on precisely this maternal, newborn and child health will continue to be a health will continue to be a priority for the UK government. She will also be aware that the UK has acted fast to try and get sick children to the UK for treatment across government. Task force supported 50 critically ill and injured children and their immediate families to leave Gaza and receive specialist support in NHS hospitals.

But as I'm sure she will agree, that is no substitute for ensuring that people can access their healthcare rights in the country that they live in, where they were born and where we hope to provide them with safety and security through a two state solution in the end.

12:20

Q11. What assessment he has made of the potential implications for his policies of UNICEF UK’s No Choice But Childhood campaign. (901728)

Seamus Logan 11, Mr Speaker Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And can I begin by thanking him for his I begin by thanking him for his advocacy for children? Pressure for children's rights will always be welcome at my door, and I share

12:20

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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UNICEF's commitment to advancing the rights of children globally, and I am personally very committed to putting children's rights at the to putting children's rights at the heart of all of the FCDO's development work. I am proud that the UK government is investing in essential services for children, essential services for children, including maternal and newborn health and nutrition, childhood vaccinations, foundational learnings, ending child marriage learnings, ending child marriage and supporting children's care reform. And I will continue to prioritise children's needs and

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indeed rights across our development portfolio, and I look forward to working with him on that. Mr. speaker, a significant number of my constituents have written to me expressing support for UNICEF's no Choice but childhood campaign when reductions are made to the UK's aid Budget. It is the most vulnerable children around the world who face the consequences of that decision. First, will the Secretary of State First, will the Secretary of State or the Minister commit to working with Unicef to increase funding in the aid Budget for children? At the aid Budget for children? At this critical point where conflict is increasing around the globe, but so many countries are decreasing so many countries are decreasing their aid for those in conflict.

12:21

Seamus Logan MP (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East, Scottish National Party)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So as the hon. Member will appreciate the money that we currently allocate for vaccination and indeed, the

12:21

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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wider health portfolio was protected in our recent round of allocations benefits children almost exclusively. The money that almost exclusively. The money that we spend on education benefits children almost exclusively. There are other large parts of our are other large parts of our portfolio, including on humanitarian and climate action, where I imagine the hon. Member where I imagine the hon. Member will share our determination to see good outcomes achieved. There are other areas of our portfolio where it is not possible or desirable to it is not possible or desirable to ring fence them specifically for children, although they are outside beneficiaries of that action.

My job is to make sure that we get the maximum impact for every single pound, every single pound of UK Oda. Some of it specifically ring fence for children, but much of it to the benefit of their families and indeed wider communities.

12:22

Alice Macdonald MP (Norwich North, Labour )

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Mr. speaker, in Afghanistan, children simply cannot enjoy their children simply cannot enjoy their childhood, particularly girls. This summer marked the grim anniversary, five years since the Taliban began five years since the Taliban began an assault on women and girls banning girls from education. We have to stand with Afghan women and have to stand with Afghan women and girls. So can the Minister set out whether we will support calls from Afghan women to recognise gender apartheid as a crime against humanity, and will shield the relevant Minister to meet with me and other MPs and importantly, Afghan women, to discuss what more can be done.

12:23

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Minister. delighted to meet with my hon. Friend and indeed would like to commend her and other women and members across this House for all members across this House for all they have done to draw attention to the horrifying, unspeakable situation facing Afghan women and girls. On the specific use of language, she will appreciate that there are sensitivities around that in the international system, and I would also want to be mindful of the views of other partner countries on that. But I would be delighted substantively to meet with her to see what we can do to advance the cause of Afghan women advance the cause of Afghan women and girls, which is close to both our hearts.

We come to the top of those Bradley Thomas. year, the intelligence number.

12:23

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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One Foreign Secretary. my thanks to police and security services for their response to the incident at RAF Fairford, including the action they have taken today. As the Prime Minister has said, the As the Prime Minister has said, the IRGC almost certainly directed this outrageous attempted attack and this government has designated the Irk sanctioned individuals in it and also reimposed snapback sanctions on Iran. Last Friday in Istanbul, I attended the first ever meeting of the E4 and R4 groups of foreign Ministers, and there was agreement we must maximise the pressure on Iran to cease its reckless attacks on ships in the Strait of Hormuz, and a diplomatic way forward must be found to end the Iran war, which is having such a direct impact on the cost of living here

12:24

Bradley Thomas MP (Bromsgrove, Conservative)

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At home. >> Bradley Thomas Mr Speaker. I was too keen there. Last year, the Intelligence and Security Committee concluded that Iran poses a widespread, persistent and unpredictable threat, and the director of MI5 has reported that the intelligence services have tracked at least 20 serious. Linked tracked at least 20 serious. Linked to Iran. So can the Minister update the House on the government's assessment of the domestic threat posed by Iran, and what. What posed by Iran, and what. What diplomatic steps are being taken to tackle this? The hon.

Gentleman is absolutely right to raise this. Iran and its proxies are a direct threat to us, and you only need to see what

12:25

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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happened at or the attempted attack at RAF Fairford to to to see that we take this incredibly seriously. we take this incredibly seriously. It's why we've designated the IRGC. It's why we've sanctioned particular individuals. It's why we particular individuals. It's why we use every channel to put pressure on Iran, including with our allies, including, as I said in Istanbul, including, as I said in Istanbul, to to cease its attacks, not just attempted attacks, not just here, but elsewhere as well.

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but elsewhere as well. Rosena Allin-Khan thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ten years on from the EU referendum, we are still seeing the negative impacts of Brexit. It has hindered trade, stunted growth and caused young people to be deprived of opportunity. I am grateful for of opportunity. I am grateful for the Prime Minister's honesty with the public about that. With all that in mind, can the Foreign Secretary please tell us what work Secretary please tell us what work is being done with EU counterparts to improve ties with the EU? So it benefits our economy and our young people?

12:25

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan MP (Tooting, Labour)

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Minister Mr. Speaker, I'm grateful to my hon. Friend for the important question. I would like to inform the House that the UK will

12:26

Rt Hon Hamish Falconer MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Jointly with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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re-associate with Erasmus+ from the 1st of January 2027. Applications open this November. They are not simply for undergraduates. University students. Therefore, University students. Therefore, educational institutions of all kinds. I would encourage honourable and right hon. Members right across and right hon. Members right across the House to work with the British Council to get their institutions engaged. That is one of the engaged. That is one of the concrete ways we will be helping young people through closer relationship with the EU.

12:26

Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)

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Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I hope you'll excuse the indulgence. As I say, a very quick thank you to As I say, a very quick thank you to the clerk of the parliaments who is in his place and who was my clerk on the Foreign Affairs Committee, and indeed is probably more to blame for me standing here today than many other people in the House. May I may I ask the Foreign Secretary? May I ask the Foreign Secretary whether he now accepts the bill that was passed in the Lords under the name of Lord Weir?

12:26

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Foreign Secretary. >> Foreign Secretary. >> Let me add my congratulations also, and thanks to the. To the clerk on the question of the Chagos clerk on the question of the Chagos Islands, which he's referring to. Look what we have always sought to do in relation to Chagos is seek to find a way forward which protects our base at Diego Garcia. That is the most important thing, and I would have thought that is shared across this House. As has become clear. The current US administration. We won't get consent for the current arrangements, but we continue to work with the US and Mauritius to safeguard our security interests.

12:27

Rt Hon Tom Tugendhat MP (Tonbridge, Conservative)

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Tom Tugendhat thank the Foreign Secretary for his comments. The reason I asked about the vote in the Lords is because there seems to the Lords is because there seems to me a real problem in the way that we're approaching this debate and the. The following is the problem that the will of this Parliament, as expressed in the Lords only last week, or in treaties that were signed in the 60s or indeed again in the 80s, are now being superseded by courts, which have actually got no mandate over the issues which he is debating. So I asked the Foreign Secretary again, does he accept the will of this Parliament, the elected will of the British people, or does he instead seek to accept the now politicised will of courts that have Russian and Chinese judges that are fundamentally misshaping agreements that were signed decades ago and have now been distorted out of place?

Because, frankly, we have seen what China has done, whether it's locking up Jimmy Lai, whether it's threatening the marine reserve he claims to champion. So I ask again, whose side is he on sexual?

12:28

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Mr. speaker, I can just gently remind the right hon. Gentleman remind the right hon. Gentleman that the House of Commons has primacy in our legislative arrangement. And that's that's not a modern that's that's not a that's a long standing convention, I would say. And on his point, on his if he just if he just comes down a little on on the point about the courts, I do say to him, at a time when international law is under threat across the world, I, I appeal, I appeal to him that we should be defenders of international law, and we.

And we absolutely believe that. And we. And we absolutely believe that maintaining our base at. Diego Garcia is absolutely consistent with that.

12:29

Lloyd Hatton MP (South Dorset, Labour)

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Well done. >> Mr. Speaker. Dirty money fuels crime on our streets and conflict overseas. So I welcome this government's continued commitment government's continued commitment to hosting an illicit finance summit next year. Getting this right really matters for our national security. So can the Minister use this extra time ahead of the summit to work with civil society and our international partners, partners, so that this summit finally delivers the tough action we need, and we can turn the tide on the scourge of dirty money.

12:29

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> My hon. Friend raises a very important topic. I thank him and all those across the House for their efforts in relation to tackling illicit finance. We take this issue very seriously and are working across government, including with colleagues at the Treasury Home Office and National Crime Agency. We are determined to ensure that next year's illicit summit Illicit Finance Summit delivers tangible action. The plague of dirty money must be eradicated, Mr. Speaker, and as the Minister for Overseas Territories, I've been raising this issue and will continue to raise this issue with elected overseas territories leaders as well.

12:30

Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year, more than 7500 Eritrean nationals entered the UK illegally and small boats. Following talks to persuade Eritrea to accept the return of these illegal immigrants, the Eritrean embassy dismissed threats of visa sanctions as a perfunctory political gimmick. So could the Foreign Secretary please update the House on what he's doing to apply diplomatic, diplomatic pressure to countries like Eritrea immigrants?

12:30

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Yeah, yeah. the hon. Member will appreciate, every time we enter into one of these negotiations across the whole of government, our objective is to of government, our objective is to uphold our integrity and impact of our migration policies. The FCDO our migration policies. The FCDO has responsibility for ensuring that the the policy position we have is communicated forcefully bilaterally. We will continue to do that. I myself have been in dialogue with the Eritrean ambassador to convey exactly the seriousness with which the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary and the wider British government takes this and there will be no resigning from the forcefulness with which we promote our policy

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that Eritrean returns are central to this government, and we will pursue that until they are secured. Chairman.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While knocking on doors in Denton Burn in Newcastle on Saturday, a resident Newcastle on Saturday, a resident said to me, we see the terrible images of families putting children images of families putting children onto small boats and the floods and wars and droughts all around the world, but we never hear what

12:31

Dame Chi Onwurah MP (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West, Labour)

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world, but we never hear what Britain is doing to help people stay and flourish where they are. And I thought, well, he's right, actually. So could the Secretary of State say to me, what is the most successful, the most effective thing that his department is doing to reduce migratory pressures?

12:32

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Well, look, my hon. Friend, as always, speaks a great deal of sense as to her constituents. And and this is why she's right about and this is why she's right about the role of G20 and the right hon. Gentleman. Member for Sutton Coldfield made this point earlier Coldfield made this point earlier on. The work we do on debt and development and climate with our partners across the world is not just right for our values, it's right for our security as well. Because failed states, climate breakdown are a threat to our security as well as our values.

12:32

Susan Murray MP (Mid Dunbartonshire, Liberal Democrat)

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Susan Murray. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Canada is now part of the EU's 150 billion fund to rearm Europe, while billion fund to rearm Europe, while British firms are stuck on third country terms. Will the Minister country terms. Will the Minister promise prioritise joining the fund as part of the wider Growth and Defence Partnership, so British firms can compete on equal terms with European firms?

12:33

Rt Hon Hamish Falconer MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Jointly with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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I'm pleased to confirm that talks about our security and defence cooperation with the EU defence cooperation with the EU will be an important part of the summit that the Foreign Secretary mentioned in his earlier answer. I thank the hon. Lady is referring to thank the hon. Lady is referring to safe. I think it was a shame that the UK was not part of it, but we are continuing our discussions with

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are continuing our discussions with the EU to ensure that we can play our full role in Europe. Emily Darlington thank.

12:33

Emily Darlington MP (Milton Keynes Central, Labour)

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You, Mr. Speaker. have cut the international aid Budget, the reality is the public are still donating in the millions to causes that are dear to their to causes that are dear to their heart. These are usually about disasters, but they also care about women in these countries and LGBT communities, in these countries, and many other issues. Will the Minister meet with me to talk about how we could extend aid much beyond disaster recovery here?

12:33

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. So we don't currently have plans to expand aid beyond the EC funding appeals, which, as my hon. Friend rightly which, as my hon. Friend rightly says, are focussed on crises requiring large scale, rapid response. But my hon. Friend is response. But my hon. Friend is absolutely right. The British public continue to care very deeply about equality and about the human rights of those overseas. So we support that through our Women's Rights Organisation programme, Grassroots Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights Programme and our Lgbt+ rights programme. We support that formally as FCDO, but I would be absolutely delighted to talk to her and indeed any other members across the House, about what more we can do to give life to the British public's impulse towards very deep solidarity on questions of equality.

12:34

John Cooper MP (Dumfries and Galloway, Conservative)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Foreign Office facilitated a trip Foreign Office facilitated a trip to Dublin for Scottish First Minister John Swinney. There he met the egregious Mary Lou McDonald of Sinn Fein to discuss the break up of Britain. Why are British taxpayers paying for this nonsense?

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Foreign Secretary. Mr. speaker, let me say to the Right Honourable or the hon. Gentleman, our belief in the United Kingdom and keeping our United Kingdom together is absolute and clear. And you know, the the First Minister Scotland can can have his visits.

12:35

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Jon Pearce thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. speaker, around 13 million people have been displaced in Sudan, but they are far from safe. Earlier this month, a drone strike near one of the displacement centres in Blue Nile killed 31 people, mostly women and children. This is the world's biggest humanitarian disaster. But where are the protests on the streets? are the protests on the streets? Where is the round the clock media reporting? Where is the online, you reporting? Where is the online, you know, coverage of this? Will the Minister set out what the government is doing to raise government is doing to raise awareness of this catastrophe and action?

12:35

Jon Pearce MP (High Peak, Labour)

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Yeah.

12:35

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Mr. speaker, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. Just yesterday, I absolutely right. Just yesterday, I attended an event in Parliament marking the one year anniversary of the fall of El Fasher. And honestly, the fall of El Fasher. And honestly, at that event, I heard testimony I will never forget as long as I live. We heard about and indeed I spoke about bloodshed so overwhelming that the ground was soaked with blood so deeply it could be seen from space. And that should be a matter of ongoing daily outrage in our country. Now, last month at Unga, the Foreign Secretary and I met with international partners to galvanise further action, including through an event focussed on the absolutely devastating use of drones to terrorise civilians.

Alongside our UK convened coalition for Atrocity Prevention. And just yesterday, I am very proud that the UK announced further sanctions against commanders suspected of Sudan.

12:36

Dame Harriett Baldwin MP (West Worcestershire, Conservative)

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Paul Waugh thank you, Mr. Speaker. With increasing evidence of hybrid attacks by Russia on British targets, will the Foreign Secretary rule out shaking hands with Sergei Lavrov at the upcoming G20 Secretary?

12:37

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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We don't engage in that way with the Russians and haven't for a number of and haven't a number and haven't for a number of years. And as I as the. And as I said earlier as I as the. And as I said earlier throughout this session, we're absolutely clear about the need to

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counter the Russian hybrid threat. Richard Quigley thank you, Mr. Speaker. With Israelis heading to the polls today, the world will be watching anxiously with hard line figures such as Ben Revere and Naftali Bennett potentially emerging as kingmakers of the next government, both having supported policies relating to settlement expansion and the transfer of Palestinians from Gaza. There is real concern that the next Israeli administration could move even further away from clients and international law. What steps is international law. What steps is this government taking to ensure that the UK's commitment to international law is upheld in its relationship with any future Israeli government?

Israeli government?

12:37

Well, Mr. Speaker, I can assure him that the UK's commitment to international law does not depend on the outcome of elections. We've been clear that settlements are illegal under international law and that Israel must comply with its obligations. We've been clear that the occupation is unlawful.

12:38

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Sarah Mr Speaker firms like >> Sarah Mr Speaker firms like Talis in Needles and Pins Aerospace and in Somerton and Leonardo in Yeovil, are at the heart of a Somerset aerospace and advanced engineering sector. Yet Britain remains outside of the Safe Defence Fund. Will the Minister commit to securing UK participation in safe securing UK participation in safe and any successor fund on fair terms? So our defence firms and the communities that depend on them aren't left behind.

12:38

Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)

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Minister. Lincoln, also with an aerospace background. We are making important progress in our relationship with many of our European friends, including, notably with the Italians on the Global Combat Air programme. As I said in my earlier answer, we will be discussing security and defence cooperation as November.

12:38

Rt Hon Hamish Falconer MP, Minister of State (Cabinet Office) (Jointly with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Lincoln, Labour)

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Brackenridge.

12:38

Sureena Brackenridge MP (Wolverhampton North East, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As online abuse increasingly crosses borders, including the sharing of borders, including the sharing of intimate images without consent, what is the government doing with international partners and technology companies to protect women and girls, and ensure criminals cannot exploit differences in country's laws to escape justice?

12:39

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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Minister. >> I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important topic. The government is taking action both at home and internationally, to tackle appalling online abuse towards women and girls, including AI generated deepfakes and the sharing generated deepfakes and the sharing of intimate images without consent. The UK has some of the strongest measures against this abuse, including making the creation and sharing of deep fakes a criminal offence, where co-developing a model national framework to reduce opportunities for offenders to exploit differences between jurisdictions. There is a global partnership for action on gender based online harassment and abuse.

I'll continue to raise this with international counterparts, and at our summit next year.

12:39

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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Mr. chair. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've had a great deal of trouble getting a straight answer from the government on this for some months now, so I'll give it some months now, so I'll give it one more go. On what specific date in August was Jonathan Powell appointed as the Prime Minister's special envoy to the British Indian

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Ocean Territories? I think we've answered this question before, Mr. Speaker. I don't have anything further to add to previous answers, sir.

12:40

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I ask my hon. Friend the Secretary of State if any funds have been allocated for Ukraine water infrastructure, for instance, infrastructure, for instance, within the UN Water Cluster project? Has the UK provided funds for defence barrier systems for water infrastructure and or provide a consistent power supply for water and sewage systems? My counterparts in Ukraine said to me, this is a top priority to ensure that water and sewage do not overwhelm them.

12:40

Alex Sobel MP (Leeds Central and Headingley, Labour )

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Minister.

12:40

Uma Kumaran MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Stratford and Bow, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for raising a topic which he has been speaking about passionately and speaking about passionately and eloquently for many years. Earlier this month, the Foreign Secretary visited Kyiv, where he met Ukrainian people still living Ukrainian people still living almost five years on under the constant threat of Russian strikes, energy blackouts and death while in Kyiv. The foreign secretary announced a £54 million combined humanitarian and energy support package, which includes £20 million to protect and maintain electricity, heating and water supply for Ukrainian families ahead of the winter. Alongside this, our £34 million humanitarian package will help around 700,000 vulnerable people, including by maintaining and restoring heating and water services.

12:41

Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP (Newark, Reform UK)

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Robert Jenrick. Yes. The Foreign. working. >> People who are. >> Finding life very tough at the moment. In that context, how would moment. In that context, how would he justify to working people and pensioners spending £6 billion on pensioners spending £6 billion on foreign aid whilst freezing the tax free personal allowance and cutting the State Pension?

12:41

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Wales Secretary. him, and I think the answer came from the person who used to be in his party, the party we used to be in, which is that the money we in, which is that the money we spend on foreign aid is absolutely about preventing the problems from elsewhere in the world. Coming here to his constituency and mine. You know, he is that one. At the same time, the person who complains about small boats, which is partly caused by fragile states and then says that we shouldn't be taking action to prevent it. So I'm afraid I don't agree with him.

12:42

Pam Cox thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> Pam Cox thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is cross-party concern about an extremely concerning situation in Tanzania. That is, the trial of in Tanzania. That is, the trial of Mr. Tundu Lissu, chair of the party for Democracy and Progress, or Chadema. Mr. Lissu has been charged Chadema. Mr. Lissu has been charged with treason after calling for electoral reform at a public rally during an election campaign. If found guilty, he could be sentenced to death. The UK has long enjoyed close and constructive relations with Tanzania. Can I ask what actions Ministers are taking to raise concerns about this very serious matter?

12:42

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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Thank you. We remain gravely concerned about the continued detention of Tundu Lissu and will detention of Tundu Lissu and will continue to raise this case through ministerial channels and the British High Commission. We note the UN working Group opinion that the UN working Group opinion that his detention was arbitrary, unlawful and lacking of sufficient legal basis, and we await the 6th November verdict and underlining its significance to Tanzania's democratic freedoms and the rule of law. But can I also take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to say the UK remains firmly opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances, in every country?

12:43

Rt Hon Graham Stuart MP (Beverley and Holderness, Conservative)

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Graham Stuart. >> His trial. >> Was unfair. The 20 year sentence extension was arbitrary. >> And outrageous.

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And outrageous. Will the Secretary. Of State now. Unequivocally say that Ryan

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Unequivocally say that Ryan Cornelius should be released? Yes. I do agree with him, Mr. Speaker, and it is something that we are discussing with our UK counterparts. And the role of Alistair Burt is also going to be important in this. We do want to see their release. Absolutely.

12:43

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Mr. burger. humanitarian situation worsens, will the Secretary of State commit supplying food aid to Gaza, at least last year's levels? And will he use his welcome new sanctions regulations laid earlier this month to sanction those Israeli figures blocking aid, getting into Gaza?

12:44

Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)

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Well, the. access in terms of Gaza is absolutely key and and essential, and the blocking of aid is absolutely outrageous. Mr. speaker, absolutely outrageous. Mr. speaker, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. I don't speculate on the sanctions regime, but it's important that we regime, but it's important that we have that regime, and we want to make sure that we unblock the aid. Secretary. Secretary.

12:44

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Of State. information, Defence and when the government will update the House about the composition, the rollout and the scalability of this new capability? Well.

12:44

Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)

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I think. important issue. The role I think we will play in this is to bring some of the lessons we have learned from taking action with allies, for example, in relation to Moldova and the disinformation there, and bring it home, if you like, to make sure that we learn those lessons here in the UK.

12:45

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, Foreign Secretary, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Doncaster North, Labour)

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Final question. Dame Anneliese Dodds thank. >> You. >> Mr. Speaker. I'm grateful to the government for its additional round of sanctions. One year on from the massacre at El Fasher, but we know that outside actors continue to fuel that war, including the UAE, as shown by the UN's fact finding mission. Can the government confirm that it remains their position, as articulated by our representative to the UN, that we welcome that to the UN, that we welcome that report? We do not contest it.

Thank you, Minister.

12:45

Rt Hon Anneliese Dodds MP (Oxford East, Labour )

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We absolutely welcome the fact finding missions report. Indeed, we were the initiator of the fact finding mission, and we remain a huge champion of its work.

12:45

Kirsty McNeill MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Midlothian, Labour )

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That completes questions. Point of order, Ben Obese-Jecty. of order, Ben Obese-Jecty. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to raise a point of order on the subject of the question I just asked the Foreign Secretary. I've asked several times to get a straight answer about the appointment of Jonathan Powell and in fact, put an FOI in on the 23rd of June. That FOI was delayed on the 23rd of June, from the 22nd of July to the 20th of August, then again to the 18th of September, then again to the 18th of October, and again to the 13th of November.

and again to the 13th of November. Mr. speaker, what can I do to try and get a straight answer from the FCDO, given they've been delaying FCDO, given they've been delaying an FOI now for five months?

12:46

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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It seems like I've ended up with this one. What I would say is the hon. Member seems to put a lot of questions in, and therefore I'm sure they'll pursue it through the table office. He'll take good advice. What I can't do is to continue a debate. I am not responsible for the answers from

12:46

Mr Speaker

the Foreign Secretary, but I think if you were to sit with the clerks to come up with another way, I'm to come up with another way, I'm sure we might be able to get somebody to hear what you said. And I'm sure the front bench will have I'm sure the front bench will have heard it as well. Point of order, Tim. Hang on, Tim Farron, you didn't ask a question. No. You didn't ask a question. No. You can't. Right, right. We're now can't. Right, right. We're now going to. Mr. Burhan. I only take points of order from people who've asked questions.

You didn't ask a question. It's the must be one of the only few times you've never managed to get a question in. So I think that you're eager to get a point of order. We'll come after you. Urgent question. I'm sure you'll be wanting to wait to do it right. Let us come to the urgent question. Mr. speaker, thank you. Nick. Timothy. Take care. Good to see you.

12:47

Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> To ask the Justice Secretary to make a statement on the electronic monitoring of offenders.

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Minister. Thank you. The government inherited a justice system pushed

12:47

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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to breaking point by the last government. We had less than 100 government. We had less than 100 places left in our prisons when labour came to power, with incredibly serious problems with electronic monitoring. We've taken swift action to improve performance, and we're now delivering the and we're now delivering the biggest expansion of tagging in British history, backed by £100

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British history, backed by £100 million of investment as part of our reforms. There is a presumption. Minister, please at least let the Minister to get to the end of what she's got to say without the interruptions.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As part of our reforms, there is a presumption that eligible offenders released under the progression model will be tagged Giving probation, an additional tool to probation, an additional tool to monitor offenders and protect the public. We're now tagging a record number of offenders, helping to cut number of offenders, helping to cut crime and make our streets safer. Electronic monitoring is not used Electronic monitoring is not used in isolation. Those released from prison remain subject to licence conditions and probation supervision, which can include curfews and restrictions on their movements. We've also introduced tougher powers for probation officers, including world first restriction zones for the most serious sexual and violent offenders where appropriate, and as well as the ability to prohibit offenders from driving, attending public events or entering pubs, clubs and bars where an offender breaches their conditions or can no longer be safely managed in the community, they can immediately be recalled to prison.

We've also ensured the electronic monitoring service is ready to support this expansion. The service was ready for first tranche releases on the 1st of October, with the equipment and staff in place to deliver the presumption to tag offenders on release. Serco has consistently met its contractual requirements since March 2026. The Ministry of Justice publishes routine extensive data on probation and tagging. It's published quarterly, and the last set of data was published just last week. It's vital that the government and the public have confidence that the information that is published by the department is accurate. Our quarterly economic monitoring statistics, including figures for the number of prison leavers fitted with tags and the figures covering the October period, will be publicly available in January.

This government inherited a prison system on the brink of collapse, having built just 500 places in the last 14 years. It's this government who are now building the prison places we need, and putting in the strictest measures possible to protect the public.

12:50

Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)

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Yeah. to the Minister, that the number of prison places and the number of prison officers is actually down, but it all sounds like it's going but it all sounds like it's going very well, according to her version of events. Labour told us that to keep the public safe from the keep the public safe from the dangerous criminals they release early, the Justice Secretary would implement the toughest tagging regime in British history, and there would be a new presumption that offenders will be electronically tagged and monitored when they leave prison. But the Metropolitan Police told Sky this weekend that they will not act on all breaches of tag conditions by bail offenders, blaming the pressure created by Labour's early release scheme.

Just in London, there have been 100 tag breaches a day by released prisoners since the first early release scheme started, with 2 to 3 released prisoners now being released rearrested every week. The Commissioner of the met said we are seeing 95% plus of the tagging breaches that we arrest, simply being bailed back into the community on the same conditions. He says there is zero sanction. One sergeant said there are just aren't enough cops to handle. Labour's early release of thousands of prisoners. The justice secretary, when he stopped hiding in his department and sending junior Ministers to answer for him, needs to be straight with the House and with the public.

Four days after his early release scheme started, he told the BBC he didn't know that it was impossible to know how many prisoners had been tagged. He wrote to me yesterday, admitting he still doesn't know and it's 26 days later. The times reports that most prisoners will not be tagged as they're released from prison, and we know that more than 5000 offenders went unmonitored in the first half of this year because they weren't fitted with tags. This is a mess, Mr. Speaker. So chaotic is Labour's early release scheme. Prisoners are being given tents instead of housing upon release.

As a matter of policy, these prisoners will be improbable breach of their licence and tagging conditions which will require them to have an approved address, all because the probation service is overwhelmed. We know two thirds of prisoners are sleeping rough, who are sleeping rough go on to reoffend within the first year. Mr Speaker Ministers keep telling us that the full data on tagging and reoffending cannot be published until the regulation publication dates. So I will ask again. Will Ministers publish full data on how many released prisoners have been tagged? Will they publish comprehensive data on reoffending by prisoners, let out through Labour's early release scheme?

And will the Justice Secretary apologise to the House for telling the public they'd be kept safe?

12:53

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Whilst I would say that the hon. Member would say that the hon. Member raises some important points, and I would stress again that we are working night and day to fix the broken system that we inherited. We are working across agencies. We are working incredibly hard with the police, with probation services, with all those that work in the criminal justice system, that want to keep the public safe and make sure that victims get the service that they need to from our criminal justice system. And I would caution the hon.

Gentleman that he appears to be conflating a number of issues in his contribution. He will be aware that it is usual practice which has been in place under successive governments, including his own, that prisoners are tagged at their place of accommodation on release, and this was always the plan for the 1st of October. That said, we know that this creates a gap between leaving prison and having the tag fitted, which is why, to address this, we have conducted a successful pilot to fit tag at prison receptions. It's currently live in six prisons and we are working at pace to roll this out to further prisoners, leaving with the tag and the hon.

Gentleman chunters from his sedentary position to ask about the police. What he is talking about is local Metropolitan Police policy in relation to breaches of court bail, where they are the responsible agency. I think it's really important not to conflate the release of prisoners and the tagging policy, which we are working at pace to improve from the situation we inherited and other demands on the police, which we are all working very closely with them to resolve. We inherited a failing tagging system with record backlogs, and we are investing £100 million in electronic monitoring, tagging offenders before release and importantly, strengthening victim protections with the new alert system.

The MPs who share this government and the Prime Minister's ambition that no one should be street homeless, I urge them to support us in these endeavours and to make sure that their local authorities are working with us to ensure that the work to support prisoners on release, ensure they are tagged and ensure victims are protected and ensure the public are protected, is our key priority and we can work together across this House to achieve that. So, Mr. Speaker, I visit prisons and meet with prison officers and governors every week who are working incredibly hard to keep the public safe, to transform lives, to transform the lives of individuals within our prison system, to make sure that when they leave prison, they leave in a better state than they arrived, that we reduce reoffending, that we support the probation service to reintegrate these members into society, and in the meantime, to ensure that they are tagged and victims and the public are kept safe.

We are working incredibly hard, getting on with the job of fixing the mess that we inherited, rebuilding our justice system that was left so broken. And I would urge hon. Members across the House to support us in their local area with this work.

12:56

Chair of the Select Committee. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. Victims should. >> Not have. >> To make their lives smaller.

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Looking over their shoulder because. Offenders are free to roam. It's the offender whose freedoms should be limited. Will the Minister be more ambitious in using restriction zones which keep an offender within a defined area, rather than simply banning them from particular areas, banning them from particular areas, as with exclusion zones? And if victims are to feel safe. Tags must be fitted as they walk out of the prison gate, not weeks later. Will this be in place in January as intended?

12:57

Catherine Atkinson MP (Derby North, Labour)

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Hear, hear.

12:57

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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for her assiduous work on all of these subjects. She is absolutely these subjects. She is absolutely right that we are right to be rolling out the world leading restriction zones, making sure that restriction zones, making sure that it is offenders who are restricted and where that is appropriate. And indeed we do have the exclusion indeed we do have the exclusion zones as well, where they are appropriate. And obviously these decisions are made by probation decisions are made by probation practitioners. And she rightly highlights the work that we are doing to accelerate and speed up the rollout of tagging at prisons to ensure that where, where and as soon as possible as we can, that we ensure the safety and security of the tagging system is installed at the prison gate as soon as possible.

12:58

Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)

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Jess Brown-Fuller Liberal Democrats. Democrats. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over 5000 offenders went unmonitored in the first half of this year due to the first half of this year due to serious delays in the tagging system, and in the year to March, an average of 300 people per week an average of 300 people per week were released from prison with no fixed address, making it incredibly difficult to ensure that offenders are tagged and then managed in the community. This adds to the strain of both the probation service and the police, who are using scarce resources to manage an increasingly large caseload and keep victims safe.

The government has repeatedly promised that they will not jeopardise public safety, but many victims following the stories over the weekend, especially after Mark Rowley's comments, will struggle to believe them. So will the government listen to the calls of the victims commissioner to tag individuals at the gate and roll this out to every prison by January? We also welcomed the government's announcement to introduce restriction zones for offenders. That limits the movement for perpetrators rather than victims. But the effectiveness of those zones will require offenders to be properly monitored and any breaches being addressed without delay. Is the Minister confident that there are enough resources to operate restriction zones effectively?

And when will we see a national roll out of this important measure?

12:59

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Lady makes a number of >> The hon. Lady makes a number of very thoughtful and helpful contributions, and indeed, it is contributions, and indeed, it is very important that housing and homelessness is tackled amongst the prison population to ensure both that they have the opportunity to build a life and not reoffend, but also ensure that that we can work with local authorities as effectively as possible to ensure that prisoners are not at risk of becoming homelessness, and that is obviously a priority across the board to tackle homelessness by this Prime Minister and this government, which was reinforced by the announcement made yesterday of £884 of priority, million pounds of priority funding to tackle homelessness.

We are already extending the period by which collaboration must happen between the prison probation unit and local authorities to ensure that we have the maximum period possible to work on ensuring that those arrangements can be put in place, that ensure victim safety and the public safety as well. And indeed, she rightly raises the tagging at source, which we have had the very successful pilot of. This has not been done previously by any government. We recognise this as an opportunity to really improve the work that is happening, and we are working at pace to ramp that up at source.

She also raises some of the restriction zones and the measures that have been put in place. I can only reiterate that these are world leading measures that we are putting in place. We genuinely are not just fixing the mess that we inherited, but we are working at pace to make this system work in the interests of victims and the public, and creating a society that everyone can contribute to.

13:01

Janet Daby MP (Lewisham East, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Minister for her response so far. But does she agree with me so far. But does she agree with me that more needs to be done to prevent reoffending when offenders are actually in prison, so that are actually in prison, so that when they are released and untagged, they do not commit further crimes? So can the Minister say what she is doing to ensure that appropriate education, training and skills takes place across the prison estate?

13:01

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Lady is absolutely >> The hon. Lady is absolutely right that ensuring that we have purposeful activity within prisons, and also that prisoners can gain skills, life skills and work skills whilst they are in prison, will help to support reducing reoffending will help to support our prison capacity challenge that we have. And indeed, she will recognise that the current capacity challenge that we inherited does make all of that harder. It just makes everything that we are doing within the prison system harder, which is why we are both building more prison spaces. We are ensuring that we do invest and support in rehabilitation whilst in prison to reduce having to recall when people reoffend.

We are tackling it on all fronts and I very much appreciate that the hon. Lady supports us in these efforts.

13:02

Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)

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So, Ashley Fox. >> So, Ashley Fox. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister says the government is building new prison places, and yet building new prison places, and yet she will be aware that there are fewer prison places today than on the day Labour took office. She'll also be aware that this vast flood of prisoners being released early has overwhelmed the ability of the probation service to find them accommodation, and that some prisoners are now being issued with tents, setting them up to fail. So can the Minister tell us how many prisoners have been issued with tents on their release, and has the rate been higher or lower than she expected?

13:03

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> It is not government policy to provide tents to people being released from prison who are at risk of being homeless. We are clear that tents are never and should never be an acceptable housing solution. He will know that overall housing responsibility does rest with local authorities in both England and Wales, and he will also be assured that we are working very closely with the MH, the Department for Housing and Local Government to make sure that we work together to tackle the scourge of homelessness across the board, but also with this prison leaver cohort that I appreciate.

He is concerned about. He can support with this work by encouraging his local authority to engage in pre-release panels so engage in pre-release panels so that this can be done collaboratively right across the UK to make sure nobody leaves prison homeless. Jonathan Brash. year, Kevin Brown committed eight burglaries in Hartlepool, targeting businesses and charities like Alice House Hospice and Cornerstone Homeless Charity. The court handed him a suspended sentence. That is not good enough for me and it is not good enough for my constituents. not good enough for my constituents. So does the Minister agree with me that we must build more prison places so that individuals like places so that individuals like this are locked up?

13:04

Mr Jonathan Brash MP (Hartlepool, Labour)

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I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman that we must build more prison places, and we are working at pace to do that. Obviously, I would not comment on independent judicial, judicial decisions that

13:04

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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are made in particular cases, but he should also be reassured to know he should also be reassured to know that the tagging involves tackling acquisitive crime also, and making sure that tagging is appropriate and individualised to the offender to make sure that it tackles their to make sure that it tackles their particular challenge, where it might come to re-offending and acquisitive crime. GPS pilot found offenders were 20% less likely to reoffend within 12 months. So we are working across the board to tackle all of these issues in the round.

Speaker.

13:05

Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)

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It's bad enough that. >> Dangerous criminals. >> Are being released early. But my constituents. Are frankly terrified constituents. Are frankly terrified that these prisoners are being released without tags. The world's gone mad. Minister, will this government commit not to release prisoners without tags? Simple question.

13:05

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Gentleman will have heard the answers I've given previously to colleagues on the previously to colleagues on the usual business as usual, which we inherited, which was always the plan for the 1st of October that an offender that is assessed for a tag and we are presuming more offenders and released from prison than individuals to be eligible for tags than at any point in history. And we are investing significantly in that, but that they would normally be tagged at their accommodation. Obviously, we've undertaken a pilot, which I have already mentioned, which has been shown to be successful, of tagging prisoners at the prison, and we will work at pace to roll that out further as quickly as possible.

13:06

Kim Johnson MP (Liverpool Riverside, Labour)

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Kim Johnson thank you, Mr. >> Kim Johnson thank you, Mr. Speaker. Serco continues to be awarded very lucrative government awarded very lucrative government contracts despite repeated failures, while probation officers have been while probation officers have been punched, pushed to breaking point. So will the Minister commit to bringing back in-house electronic tagging and probation services? As I proposed in my amendment to the Sentencing Act, so that we're not rewarding private property profit over public safety.

Thank you. Mr.

13:07

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Lady for her >> I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The contract was signed by the party opposite and it its by the party opposite and it its performance did not originally meet expectations, but we have focussed expectations, but we have focussed on driving rapid improvement and ensuring that we turn that failing performance around to make sure that it is meeting contractual expectations and that they are working with us at pace to make the improvements that we want to see in our system. We obviously will continue to keep all of these matters under review, as we would with any contracts that the government has entered into.

13:07

Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)

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Julian Lewis. >> I welcome the fact that the government is experimenting with this scheme of tagging prisoners at this scheme of tagging prisoners at the point of release, but the question then arises those of them question then arises those of them who do not have an address to go to and who choose to remove the tag are going to be very difficult to find. Is there a solution to this?

13:08

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Gentleman asks a typically thoughtful question, and obviously all of these matters are obviously all of these matters are kept continuously under review. We work very closely with the work very closely with the probation service that keep that have a range of measures that they use to manage offenders once their release in the community, both to support them, to reintegrate, but make sure that the public are safe. And we obviously work very closely with the police in that work also, and as an offender does find settled accommodation, then obviously at any stage, a tag can then be put on as part of those licence conditions.

But clearly, where there are concerns, the ultimate AIM recall option remains available.

13:08

Rt Hon Emily Thornberry MP (Islington South and Finsbury, Labour)

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Emily Thornberry thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. >> In 1842, when Pentonville Prison was built, I don't imagine anybody expected that today they would have twice the number that the twice the number that the Victorians ever thought ought to be kept in prison. And furthermore, principal prison is a London remand prison. It used to be people were there for 6 to 8 months on remand in pretty terrible. But now they're there for years because of the crisis within the criminal justice system. The question is this when they are released, what should be done with them? I was speaking to the governor of the prisoner on Friday, and he said that if the government wishes them to, prison, officers would be quite happy to be to be trained and to put the tags on themselves before releasing people.

13:09

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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I thank the right hon. Lady for her very thoughtful question. And her very thoughtful question. And she, like I have great. The greatest regard for our prison governors who work on the front governors who work on the front line, keeping the public safe and keeping their prisons running. And they do come up with a lot of good ideas. I've heard many of them myself. I meet with them regularly to make sure. And I am very much ear to the ground on what we can do to improve matters. And indeed, many of the proposals that we are taking forward to improve things significantly from where we inherited them come from the very practical reality that prison governors themselves encounter.

So I thank her for the suggestion.

13:10

Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you sir. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's not just those on early release, but our victims of domestic abuse, like Michelle, who has a restraining order against her ex-partner until 2036, and her police say that he is regularly breaching when he is released. Ten days after his release, she contacted me for the fourth time to say he still didn't have a tag and as he went into half term, said I've not left my house all week. The children can't go out in half term. We don't feel safe. The liaison officers know that this is going to happen again, and the family is now staying one at a time to make sure she's not alone.

I totally understand January deadline. There's a lot of people to deal with, but will she make a commitment that for those people who are victims, serial victims of domestic abuse will be prioritised so that children don't have to look over their shoulder?

13:10

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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Yes. >> Yes, the honourable, hon. Lady raises a very important case, and I'm very sorry to hear about the situation that they're dealing with this this half term. Obviously, that needs to be escalated to the that needs to be escalated to the appropriate, appropriate people to be dealt with. And indeed, there are a whole variety of measures that are used to ensure victim engagement. The Victims contact helpline and ultimately specific orders put on domestic perpetrator offenders. But I appreciate she has ongoing concerns, and I'd be more than happy to engage with her on this particular case.

Speaker.

13:11

Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)

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Can I thank the Minister for the groundbreaking work of her department in tagging prisoners department in tagging prisoners before release, but can she update the House on the work that this government is doing to start fixing the failure of the party opposite to build more prison places and invest in a crumbling prison estate? Yeah, yeah.

13:11

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Lady brings us back to >> The hon. Lady brings us back to the crux of the issue, which this government inherited, and the fact government inherited, and the fact that we have been dealing with the consequences of a failure to invest consequences of a failure to invest in our prison capacity over many years, with just 500 net places, when the opposite party left government, and we are working at pace to deliver 14,000 prison places, we're aiming to do so by 2031. We've already delivered 3300, and I look forward to being at the groundbreaking and opening of many more.

13:12

Rt Hon Liz Saville Roberts MP (Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Plaid Cymru)

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The Lord Chancellor recently addressed Napo's conference. I was addressed Napo's conference. I was there, I was listening in to speak afterwards, and he told probation officers, without you, our criminal officers, without you, our criminal justice system doesn't work. But yet Napo is presently balloting their members on strike action following failed negotiations with the government for a pay rise after decades of pay stagnation. Surely she agrees, though, that technology cannot replace dedicated probation officers. They also need the proper pay, the proper conditions and the proper workloads to be able to do their jobs properly. Thank you.

13:13

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Justice transcribed that she makes reference to has supported probation officers to reduce the workload when it comes to the workload when it comes to the transcribing of notes that obviously they must keep careful records of, and this inevitably is records of, and this inevitably is helping to manage workloads. But she is absolutely right. They do a vital job. I want to take this opportunity to thank them for the work that they are doing today and every day, to make sure we keep our, our, the public safe, and they manage offenders in the community.

That's why in April, we secured the biggest probation pay increase in over a decade. And the current offer increases that by a minimum of 5%. We want to increase our recruitment of probation officers. So do think about joining and encourage people that, you know, to join. And we also want to make sure we retain our brilliant probation officers. And we're obviously continuing in discussions with them to that end.

13:14

Rt Hon Esther McVey MP (Tatton, Conservative)

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Thank you. >> Can the Minister. >> Confirm that criminals won't get tagged if they're classed as homeless for at the weekend, it was homeless for at the weekend, it was revealed that prisoners released early by this government were given tents because there was no tents because there was no accommodation for them. So yes or no will prisoners released and given a tent be tagged, or will they be roaming the streets without any way of locating them? Free to commit more crime?

13:14

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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I agree with her that it is completely unacceptable for a prisoner to be released with a tent. It is not government policy. It is not something we want to see. not something we want to see. That's why we are working at pace to improve the homelessness situation that we inherited from situation that we inherited from the previous government, to make sure that nobody, including prison leavers, leave prison homeless or have to live homeless. Speaker.

13:15

Jayne Kirkham MP (Truro and Falmouth, Labour )

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Lords committee criticised the >> Lords committee criticised the MoJ under the previous government for reappointing the contractors after repeated failures. Serco has after repeated failures. Serco has an issue with finding a tag small enough for the mother, the elderly mother of my constituent and it mother of my constituent and it delayed her release over Christmas. Can the Minister outline what steps the government are taking to make sure the contractors manage to tag all prisoners before they release, before they leave prison?

13:15

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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I am sorry to hear about the experience of that particular case. experience of that particular case. Clearly, there are circumstances where there are physical challenges to fitting a tag, whether that may to fitting a tag, whether that may be due to a medical reason in terms of limb loss, for example, there are swelling, but obviously it's important that the vast majority of people that should have tags do have tags, and we need to make sure that happens. As I said, the business as usual position is to tag an individual who is due to be tagged once they are in their accommodation, but we are trialling, have piloted and will be looking to roll out tagging at the prison as

**** Possible New Speaker ****

quickly as possible. Adam Dance thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've heard from far too many worried victims and parents of many worried victims and parents of young victims in Yeovil about how much anxiety the potential early release of their offenders has called, including child and grooming gangs. But prevention grooming gangs. But prevention probation services in rural areas are on their knees. So can the Minister tell victims in Yeovil

13:16

Adam Dance MP (Yeovil, Liberal Democrat)

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Minister tell victims in Yeovil what work has been done with probation services in the South west to make sure they have all the personal resources and systems in place to safely manage the release of offenders in our communities?

13:16

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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Yeah. experience of young people in Yeovil and in his area. I do think that some of the rhetoric around this, we need to be very careful this, we need to be very careful and have victims always in mind when we have these conversations and make sure that, yes, there is robust challenge to make sure we robust challenge to make sure we get this right and that we push the measures that we are taking to the furthest point possible to make sure we keep people safe, but also that we do we do respect the work of our probation team that are monitoring these offenders in the community and are working to keep people safe.

And obviously, from the progression model, there are a whole range of offences that are excluded that are not eligible for progression. We have increased the tagging of offenders even where they are excluded from progression, but they are crimes of a nature that we would want them to be tagged and monitored post-release in any event. So I would want to provide reassurance to the young people that we are working at pace and to our to the at our very hardest to ensure that we keep the public safe.

former.

13:17

Markus Campbell-Savours MP (Penrith and Solway, Labour)

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Minister from. >> The party opposite wrote a book which discussed the failures of the prison system to reform. Can the Minister confirm she's looked at Minister confirm she's looked at Rory Stewart's book, his concerns that the department lacked project management capabilities and support from the Treasury required a longer tenure for prison Ministers. And would you recommend the book to the shadow Minister?

13:18

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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13:21

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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Jim Shannon. >> Can I thank the Minister very much for for her answers. Very comprehensive answers. Well, electronic monitoring of the offenders can be a useful tool to offenders can be a useful tool to manage prison capacity for individuals who have carried out non-violent crimes. There are some non-violent crimes. There are some serious concerns about regional coordination. So can the Minister assure the House that robust safeguards are in place to ensure that private monitoring contractors are are sharing real time, flawless data with police forces in United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And what specific metric is the Minister's department doing to confirm that tagging systems are genuinely reducing offending, rather than sticking plaster for a broken system?

Thank you.

13:22

Catherine McKinnell MP, The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Newcastle upon Tyne North, Labour)

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Gosh, the hon. Gentleman raises a very thoughtful question, and one a very thoughtful question, and one that probably requires a lengthy answer, which I don't have time for today. But I absolutely acknowledge today. But I absolutely acknowledge the point that he makes. And I am absolutely determined that we both absolutely determined that we both have the data and the monitoring and the reporting to make sure that this does work, that it's not a sticking plaster, that victims can have faith in it, and probation officers can be supported, and the police to do what they need to do to keep our communities safe.

We are investing significantly in this technology. We need to make sure it works. And he raises a genuine and good point today. good point today. To that statement on security. Minister Dan Jarvis. permission. the.

13:23

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Steps the government is taking >> Steps the government is taking to ensure that the UK is the most resilient country that we can be. I'd like to begin, though, by sending my condolences to the families of the two men who tragically died in storm conditions tragically died in storm conditions this weekend. It is an all too grim reminder of the devastating impact that storms can have. I saw this firsthand when I visited Cornwall in the wake of Storm Goretti earlier this year. Weather stations recorded wind speeds of 100 miles an hour. 50,000 homes, schools and businesses were left without power.

Entire communities became trapped as fallen trees blocked country lanes. I heard families fear as they talked about how quickly the basic necessities of everyday life were stripped away. Power. Water. Internet. And I thank the first responders for their tireless effort clearing roads and reconnecting homes. These scenes will be familiar to members right across the house. And on January the 8th in the southwest. It was an extreme storm. Over the summer across the UK, it was wildfires, and this week it has been Storm Austin and Storm Bulo. Climate change is making extreme weather not just more likely, but also more powerful.

And this winter is set to be difficult with El Nino increasing the likelihood of storms and heavy rainfall. Now, since we came into government in 2024, we've been hardening and sharpening the UK's approach to resilience. We've rewritten the government's pandemic strategy, investing more than £1 billion to build the UK's biological defences. We've launched the home defence programme to ensure our country is best prepared for the full range of potential threats, no matter how unlikely they might be. And up and down these aisles, we're taking coordinated action to prepare our infrastructure for difficult weather this winter.

£1.4 billion invested in flood defences in this financial year alone. £24 billion invested to maintain and improve our roads and railways rail network over the next four years, and 2.6 billion invested to climate proof our rail infrastructure. With projects underway or completed in places like County Durham, Derbyshire and Cumbria. And throughout this coming winter, I'll be working across government to ensure an effective response to storms as they occur. But reflecting on the experience of the people I met in Cornwall, it's clear to me that in the middle of an emergency, our brilliant first responders, first responders can't be everywhere all at once.

It is clear that proper preparedness begins in our communities, streets and homes. Now, our research shows that just 13% of people in the UK feel that they're prepared for an emergency, like a severe storm that could cut them off from the services they rely on. This figure is far lower than our European neighbours. The very same research showed that 84% of people in the UK want the government to share more information about the steps they can take to increase their preparedness. So, Mr. Speaker, to give some credit to the opposition, they also recognise this resilience gap while in government and launched a new website to share preparedness, guidance, guidance with the public.

But that website stopped short of a proper campaign. Not enough people noticed it, and those who did found the guidance hard to follow. This government is committed to having an honest conversation with the public about the risks that we face and helping them to prepare. Household by household, step by step, to improve our national resilience. To that effect, we have published updated preparedness guidance for households and launched a three year campaign to raise awareness of the simple steps people can take to be ready for everyday emergencies. Now, I want to be clear from the outset that we are not launching this campaign because of any specific or imminent threat.

Instead, launching this campaign brings the UK into line with almost every single European country and countless others around the world who already run similar campaigns every year. In developing this campaign, government has worked with more than 500 different organisations emergency services businesses, voluntary groups and local authorities to develop guidance that meets communities needs. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to touch briefly on the guidance before outlining the campaign. The guidance is designed to help households be self-sufficient for three days in an emergency. We've published a full checklist of the simple steps that households can take.

The two main actions are ensuring that you have three days of water and non-perishable food, and signing up to the Priority Services register. If you or someone in your household is eligible for extra support in a utility outage, Mr Speaker as many people who can follow this common sense guidance should follow this guidance. By playing their part, people will be helping themselves as well as others in their community. Because in an emergency, every household that's taken the steps set out on the checklist is one less household. The emergency services need to give extra support to.

We're also encouraging people to check in on their neighbours and be ready to help each other out. We've worked hand in hand with charities to ensure the campaign is helpful for everyone, including organisations representing disabled people, people struggling with their mental health and people who rely on food banks. Many actions on the checklist are completely free, such as signing up for the priority services register, and other actions can be ticked off over time by adding one item per week to the weekly shop. This is about helping as many people as possible to be ready for an emergency, so that help can arrive to those most in need first.

Now, to people who think the campaign is an overreaction, think of the people that I met in Cornwall and people in countless other communities across the UK, including tens of thousands of people who were without power this very weekend, whose lived experience proves otherwise. Mr Speaker moving to the campaign, it will run for at least three years and is called Be Ready. It's being run hand in hand with our emergency services, local councils and resilience forums and voluntary organisations, and I am pleased to report that since launch, the campaign website has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times.

The campaign checklist has been downloaded tens of thousands of times, and whilst it's too early to have formal polling data, anecdotal evidence and partner data shows people up and down the country are heeding our advice. But this is just the start. Over the coming weeks, people will begin to see information about what they can do, popping up online, on the radio and out and about in their local community. And that's just the point. This is a community led campaign. And over the coming weeks, we'll also be sharing toolkits that partners can use to get involved.

I encourage members from right across the House to support the campaign, read the advice and help their constituents be ready. Together, we can ensure our communities are ready for everyday emergencies whenever or wherever they occur. I hope that the Be Ready campaign will unite communities across the United Kingdom, and I am working closely with the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, all of whom back this campaign and the life saving advice it will share. Mr. speaker, before entering Parliament, I was proud to serve in the Parachute Regiment, whose motto ready for anything comes to mind today.

But, Mr. Speaker, what you might not know is that even longer, perhaps longer ago than I would care to admit. I was a Boy Scout. Hard though that might be to believe. An hon. Members opposite and across the House, all I'm sure, will know the motto of the scouting movement. It isn't dip dip, dip, I don't think is. The right hon. Lady has said it is. Be prepared. Thank you very much. Be prepared. Different circumstances, certainly, but I think and I hope that the House would agree, that there is wisdom in both of those mottos.

Both remind us that we have a responsibility to be ready for the sorts of everyday emergencies that people faced just this weekend, and together, by taking the simple steps in this campaign, we can help people and communities right across the United Kingdom to be ready. I commend this statement to the.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

House here. Shadow Minister Charlie Dewhirst. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And can I start by thanking the Minister I start by thanking the Minister for advance sight of his statement and join him in sending my condolences to the families of the two men who lost their lives in the two men who lost their lives in the storms over the weekend. Now, we welcome measures to address the resilience gap, a process, as the Minister said, started under the previous government.

Although I'm a little surprised to see that the Housing Secretary suggested to

13:32

Housing Secretary suggested to stockpile Sauvignon Blanc has not been taken on board by the Minister, but it is absolutely right that the government tells people to be prepared for adversity. But I do have a number of questions I hope he's able to address this afternoon. Firstly, the Government's Be Ready campaign website lists 18 hazards ranging from terrorism and adverse weather to animal and plant health and fires in the home. Which of these 18 does the government consider the highest risk, and has there been any recent changes to risk assessments that led to the launch of this campaign?

Secondly, I would like to address those people who are digitally excluded. How does the government plan to reach those people, and will it be distributing printed resources, printed resources? Madam Deputy Speaker, Not only vital for those who are digitally excluded, but could become a lifeline for anyone who is unable to access the internet. At the time of an incident. In his statement, the Minister rightly pointed out that only 13% of people in the UK feel they are prepared for an emergency. This is in stark contrast to other countries such as Spain, where I believe the figure is just below 70%.

So can the Minister tell the House whether he has a specific take up figure he would like to achieve by the end of the Be Ready campaign? I now come to the issue of costs. We all know that times are tough for people right across the country. So how much does the government expect this to cost the average family, and how much does the government expect to spend on the campaign over the next three years? It has been reported that since the government announced this last week, supermarkets have seen water and baked beans sell out, as well as a run on wind up radios and torches.

Did the government communicate with major supermarkets and other retailers before it made the announcement to prepare them, or was it just dropped on them? With reference to emergency response coverage? The most important thing across the nation is that we have a joined up approach, so nobody is left behind. We cannot have a postcode lottery of an emergency response system. So can the Minister tell the House specifically how he is working with the devolved administrations across the four nations, and how he is working with local authorities? The government became familiar with the emergency alert system over the summer, after using it to warn people about disposable barbecues.

So since then, has the Minister reflected and made any assessment of the threshold for future use of the system, and how many people may have turned off their emergency alert capability following its use in August next? Mr. speaker, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to address vulnerable people and what considerations the government has made for them in the Be Ready campaign. How will the government ensure that our vulnerable, our elderly, people with illness, parents of children with SEND and others are effectively communicated with and supported in a time of emergency? This cannot vary from place to place.

Moving on to national security, the former defence Minister said this week that the cyber attack, which caused £2.1 billion of damage to JLR last year, was a state sponsored attack. First of all, Jaguar Land Rover deserved to know whether this was a state sponsored attack, and I hope the government has told them. But can the government say whether there needs to be more awareness in business that they are at risk from these type of attacks? And what more is the government doing to support our critical national infrastructure with cyber resilience and cyber security? Now, the government has claimed that defence spending will reach 2.7% of GDP by the end of 2028.

Considering the value the valuable work of our intelligence services, can the Minister confirm that the single intelligence account is included in this? And can the Minister explain how explain how this fits with the NATO definition of defence spending? Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, the government has refused to confirm whether improving broadband infrastructure is included in the classification of critical infrastructure for the purposes of reporting against the additional 1.5% NATO commitment. Can the Minister clarify today that improving broadband infrastructure does not contribute to the NATO spending commitment? In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, we welcome the continuation of the previous conservative government's efforts to address the resilience gap.

We will support the government where appropriate, and we look forward to scrutinising the Be Ready campaign as it progresses.

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Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm genuinely grateful to the hon. Member opposite for the reasonable way in which he's presented quite a way in which he's presented quite a long list of questions to the House today. I will endeavour to work my today. I will endeavour to work my way through them in a systematic way, as I possibly can, but if there's anything that I miss, I'll very happily write to him or very very happily write to him or very happy to meet with him and discuss this matter, not least because it is absolutely my intention that the is absolutely my intention that the work that we do to make our nation more resilient is a shared endeavour across this House.

I don't believe that. Don't believe that this should be a matter of political disagreement. I think the measures that we put forward are reasonable and common sense measures, and I hope that we can work together across this place to make sure that our communities, our constituencies, are as resilient as they possibly can be, not least because that effort, that activity, will contribute to our overall national resilience and our national security as part of this work. Now, the hon. Member opposite asked an entirely reasonable set of questions. Let me run through them as best as I possibly can.

He also asked specifically at the outset about whether the campaign was in response to a range of different risks, and he will know about the government's risk register, and he will have heard the point that I made earlier on about this campaign not being as a consequence of any specific piece of intelligence or not born out of any specific concern, he and the House will understand that government at any one time are tracking a range of different threats to the United Kingdom, and this campaign will contribute, I think, effectively to our overall resilience. And I think he will also understand that there is absolutely a lot of merit in making sure that we prepare households and communities at a local level for the kind of everyday emergencies that we've spoken about today, and that there is a broader and wider utility to that preparedness when it comes to other risks that have been debated more recently, even those that are much less likely.

I thought he made an important point about inclusion, and particularly with regard to those people who are not online. He's right to raise those concerns. And over the coming weeks and months, he will see a range of different activities underway to make sure that we're able to reach into every corner of the United Kingdom, and including reaching those people who are not online. I mentioned the radio, but I'm very happy to to think more about how we can make sure that nobody misses out in terms of being able to access this important messaging. He asked about the take up figure.

I said in my earlier remarks that this is a campaign that I anticipate will run for three years. I think the reality is, the kind of messages that we're discussing today will likely run on for the longer term. And actually, this work here that we're now launching in the United Kingdom is work that is done routinely in other parts of the world, and particularly with partners in Europe and Scandinavia. This kind of messaging is routine in most countries around the world, and I anticipate that there will be a kind of kind of normality of this kind of activity as we move forward in the future.

The hon. Member specifically asked me about the alert. The decision to launch any alert is a decision that is taken very carefully, and we weigh up a range of different risks. Whenever an alert is launched, there's always an extensive process of review, and we're working through the detail of the most recent alert, and I'm very happy to discuss that further with him and other hon. Members. He was right to raise specific concerns about ensuring that the vulnerable and the elderly are properly accommodated. In the context of this campaign. We have worked very hard with a range of different stakeholder organisations, including local resilience forums and the voluntary voluntary sector and the British Red cross specifically to ensure that vulnerable people are properly catered for in the context of this campaign.

And I know that you will have heard the words I spoke earlier on about the importance that we attach to people signing up for the priority services register, and I think there is a job of work that I hope every hon. Member will engage with in terms of looking into their own communities and encouraging their constituents to engage with this messaging, and specifically where they think that they might be eligible. And there's quite a broad criteria that is attached to sign up for the Priority services register. He rightly made the point about cost of living pressures, and I hope he will have heard the words that I've spoken about there not being a requirement, obviously, for households to assemble all of these items in one go.

This is the kind of thing that people can do progressively, and perhaps add a single item every week in their weekly shop, albeit many households will likely all already have many of the items that are on the checklist. But hopefully through the process of this campaign, households will think about how they draw those individual items together and be kind of better

13:41

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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prepared should an everyday emergency strike. So we are acutely conscious of the cost of living conscious of the cost of living pressures on households right around the country. We are also absolutely determined to ensure absolutely determined to ensure that that this campaign is done in a value for money way. The actual costs of it are relatively low, but costs of it are relatively low, but we think it is very good value for money. But we'll make sure that that is the case. The hon. Member that is the case. The hon. Member also asked about cyber.

It's an issue that I take personally incredibly seriously, both in my remit as a Cabinet Office Minister, but also through the Home Office as well. The hon. Member will know that earlier this year, the government published a landmark cyber action plan overhauling public sector digital security. And the next stage of that plan is to bring forward the National Cyber Action Plan, which will drive up standards across businesses and the wider, wider society. There is a lot of activity underway across government, and I hope that that is something that we can collectively all get behind. The final point that the hon.

Member opposite mentioned was regard to defence spending. Now, I genuinely welcome this debate because I think it's important for our national security. And as the Prime Minister has said, this government's commitment to the defence of our country is unwavering. We've already delivered the biggest sustained boost to defence spending since the Cold War, committing nearly 300 billion over the next four years. We will honour our NATO commitment to spend 3.5% of GDP on defence by 2035, and set out a target date for when we reach 3% at the spending review. And we're delivering on our commitment to NATO by spending 1.5% of our GDP on wider security and resilience.

This includes protecting our critical national infrastructure, defending our networks, ensuring our civil preparedness and resilience, and unleashing

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innovation and strengthening our defence industrial base. National Security Strategy Select Committee chair Matt Western.

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Select Committee chair Matt Western. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I commend my hon. Friend and Can I commend my hon. Friend and the government for starting this national conversation. As we've seen through the summer, through the extreme heat. But in recent days, the storms ravaging our communities, or whether we've seen

13:44

Matt Western MP (Warwick and Leamington, Labour)

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communities, or whether we've seen the issues with rogue states attacking our infrastructure, clearly, there is a real need for this conversation to start. He will know that the committee, Joint Committee on National Security Strategy has got its inquiry underway into societal resilience, and therefore, I would welcome, as I'm sure, all members around this House, what the Minister was saying about this three year programme. But will he commit to regular updates to this House, whether it be on the local resilience forums, the roles of individuals and the roles of business on how we can roles of business on how we can ensure wider societal resilience.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm very grateful to my hon. Friend for his question and for the important work that he does chairing his committee and the particular piece of work that he mentioned, I think is is significant and important. And we look forward keenly to the findings that his committee reaches. He is right to mention the three year

13:45

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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commitment that we've made. I think that's the right duration of time to aim for initially. But as I said to aim for initially. But as I said earlier, I anticipate that we now live in a world where we'll need to constantly have these kind of conversations with communities conversations with communities right around the country, in line with our European partners and with allies right around the world. And allies right around the world. And absolutely, yes, I can give him the commitment that he seeks to make sure that we update his committee and this House.

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and this House. Liberal Democrat spokesperson Lisa Smart. Very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. I'd like to place on record our thanks to the emergency services, volunteers and communities who respond to civil emergencies, whether that storms, floods or wildfires, and I welcome the announcement of the Be Ready campaign and agree that every household that can be ready to look after itself should be ready to look after itself for at least three days. During the first Covid lockdown, I raised more than an eyebrow when my other half stockpiled enough bottled water to keep us going for some weeks.

But today he's been proved right, and I fear I will never hear the end of it. The security Minister rightly mentioned the importance of volunteers in his remarks. I wonder if he has spoken with our Finnish allies, for example, to learn from their experience in establishing a formal civil volunteer reserve who would receive non-military training and could be called upon in an emergency in the way that community first responders attend medical emergencies. Now, as he said, not everybody can stock up for three days.

Those relying on food banks,

13:46

Lisa Smart MP (Hazel Grove, Liberal Democrat)

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older people, people with mobility difficulties are often the least able to prepare and the most exposed. The priority Services exposed. The priority Services register can only work well if it's accurate. So what more can the Minister do to ensure it's kept up Minister do to ensure it's kept up to date? And could he say specifically what coordination is in place with the utility companies? in place with the utility companies? So information can be shared about their own lists of vulnerable customers? Now we know it's not just weather or climate change. We need to be prepared for nationally, significant cyber threats have doubled in the last year.

The Liberal Democrats have called for a digital sovereignty strategy to ensure critical national functions are powered by technology that the UK can control. Could the Minister update us on any progress being made specifically on digital sovereignty?

13:47

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Well, I'm grateful to her. She >> Well, I'm grateful to her. She raised a series of important points, and I join with her in thanking the emergency services for the emergency services for the incredibly important work that they do in communities right around the country. She's right to raise the country. She's right to raise the issue of volunteers. I am aware of the very good work that's taking place in Finland and in Scandinavia. They've had a more forward leaning approach to these kind of campaign than has been the case here in the United Kingdom. But I will look more closely at the specific point that she makes about how things are working in Finland, and I agree with her about the importance of the Priority Services register.

We are working with utility companies, and we are working to ensure that there is as much awareness as they possibly can be at an individual household level of the need to sign up for the priority services register. As I mentioned previously, the criteria is quite broad and therefore I would encourage colleagues across the House to engage with their own constituencies and use this as an opportunity to encourage people to check their availability on that particular register. I thought she made an important point about sovereignty. I work very closely across government from the Cabinet Office, but with colleagues in DCMs and elsewhere to make sure that our digital infrastructure and our critical national infrastructure is as resilient and as protected as it possibly can be.

As she knows, we face a range of different threats in that regard, and it's important that government is properly geared

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to stand against those threats and work closely with our international allies to do so. Defence Select Committee.

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Defence Select Committee. Chair. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Security Minister for his statement Security Minister for his statement on this vital topic and indeed, welcome the much delayed start to welcome the much delayed start to the national conversation. It is widely acknowledged that military effectiveness in the event of

13:49

Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Slough, Labour)

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effectiveness in the event of conflict is reliant on civilian systems being able to function under attack, whether that's physical or cyber, and that in turn relies on a whole of society approach. So can I ask the Minister why, in the forthcoming national exercise, our Western shadow? Why is that classified and therefore excludes those from outside government? If we rightly accept that resilience is a whole of society endeavour, then why is the government not engaging more widely with industry, with councils, with civil societies, with right hon. Members in this House, so that we can properly stress test the planning and also what information sharing mechanisms have been established to ensure that key individuals, without the necessary clearance security clearances that they are included in the event of crisis of conflict?

13:50

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, I'm grateful to the chair of Well, I'm grateful to the chair of the Select Committee, and I agree with his broader point about the importance of wider societal importance of wider societal resilience. He's absolutely right about that. And that is work through the home defence programme that we lead through the Cabinet Office. But working with partners across government, including, of course, the Ministry of Defence, he specifically referenced Ulverston, shadow, Ulverston shadow is due to be the largest home defence exercise that we've run in the United Kingdom for many, many years.

We are still working through the precise design of that particular exercise, so I'll reflect on the comments that he's made, and we'll look to see whether we can accommodate some of the points that he's helpfully flagged.

13:51

Rt Hon Sir Edward Leigh MP (Gainsborough, Conservative)

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Father of the. >> Father of the. >> House in the early 1980s with other enthusiasts, I set up the National Council for Civil Defence National Council for Civil Defence and worked with Willie Whitelaw, and we achieved a major milestone in the Civil Protection in in the Civil Protection in Peacetime Act of 1986, and it was taken over by local government officers, a serious organisation. When the Cold War ended, ended. This whole civil defence effort atrophied because there was considered to be no threat. We now live in a very different world. So will the Minister make some attempt to try and improve our entire civil defence structure?

There was a leaflet issued by the then conservative government called Protect and Survive. Now, I know a war is very unlikely, but it's best to be prepared.

13:51

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Well, I certainly agree with the Father of the House that it is best to be prepared. It's interesting to be prepared. It's interesting that he was reflected, reflecting on a time where there was a greater awareness of the potential risk of awareness of the potential risk of conflict. But he's also right that the threats that we face today are very significant. And I think the world is more dangerous than at any point since the period that he described. I hope that he will understand that government takes these matters incredibly seriously. I hope that he will see that we're working across government to ensure that we have the appropriate defences in place and the appropriate resources to underpin those defences.

We do need to focus people's minds on a range of different threats to our national security. This Be Ready campaign will better insulate households and communities, and I hope that he will agree that there will be a

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broader, wider benefit to that in terms of our national security and in terms of keeping the country safe. John Slinger thank.

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You, Madam Deputy. Speaker. And. I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend's statement. Would he join Friend's statement. Would he join me in praising Ben Brooke, the Chief Fire Officer of Warwickshire, and his fire fighting team and administrative team, for the brave

13:52

John Slinger MP (Rugby, Labour)

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administrative team, for the brave efforts they were involved in this summer, where the month of July at 777 771 incidents, was the highest on record, double the July rate in 2021. And would he confirm that the government will do all it can to provide the fire service in Warwickshire with the resources they need, and also the support to help with reaching out to the public about the parts of his statement around their involvement in resilience.

13:53

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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OK, I'm. and I absolutely join with him in praising Ben Brooke and his team in Warwickshire. I know that they did incredibly important and difficult incredibly important and difficult work over the course of the summer, and my hon. Friend may have seen. Just last week, the Prime Minister Just last week, the Prime Minister hosted our inaugural wildfire summit, where he announced military planes and helicopters will take to the skies to fight wildfires for the first time as we prepare for future extreme weather driven by climate change. But amidst that announcement, I know that the Prime Minister took the opportunity to pay tribute to those who put on a uniform and serve in our fire and rescue service for the incredibly important work that they do.

And clearly, that's the case in my hon. Friend's constituency as well.

13:54

Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)

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Rule number one, as far as resilience is concerned, is be prepared. Does the Minister agree prepared. Does the Minister agree that rule number two should be have a reliable backup system in that a reliable backup system in that connection? Does he share my concern that both in the field of concern that both in the field of telephony and in the field of banking, backup systems don't seem to exist? In particular, was the government consulted before British Telecom decided not only to move on to an internet based telephone system, but actually to dismantle the copper wire system, which could have given us useful levels of resilience in an emergency.

Yes.

13:55

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Madam Deputy Speaker, I broadly >> Madam Deputy Speaker, I broadly agree with my right hon. Friend's rule number two, he's right to stress the importance of having backup systems. Essentially, that is a guiding principle in this campaign to make sure that campaign to make sure that individual households do have their own individual backup systems. But he's also right that government needs to obviously think about the bigger picture and ensure that we have that resilience across our critical national infrastructure and in the areas of business and commerce that he's referenced. I can give him an assurance that government works very closely with partners in the private sector.

There are various forums that provide opportunities to engage on these matters. We take them very seriously, but I'll look more carefully at the point that he's made.

13:55

Dame Nia Griffith MP (Llanelli, Labour)

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Nia Griffith thank. Deputy Speaker. >> Well, given that tinned food is key to being prepared for an emergency, as you can eat it even emergency, as you can eat it even without having power to cook it, would the Minister recognise that Tata's Trostre steelworks in my constituency of Llanelli, which makes the tin plate that is used by big name manufacturers to can their products, is of strategic importance to our national resilience and will he stress to his ministerial colleagues the absolute necessity of ensuring that conditions such as energy prices are competitive to secure a viable

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future for tinplate production in Tennessee? Yeah. Well, I think my hon. Friend

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Well, I think my hon. Friend makes a really important point, and I know that colleagues in government will have heard it, and I will make sure that they have. I will make sure that they have. But she's right to emphasise the wider kind of industrial issues at wider kind of industrial issues at play here. And she'll know that tin cans were included on on the sort

13:56

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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of checklist. And she's right to raise the point that she has, and I'll give reassurance. I'll raise it with colleagues in other government departments.

13:56

Ben Obese-Jecty MP (Huntingdon, Conservative)

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Ben Obese-Jecty. Our subsea. important, and we know from recent reports that the Russians have been sniffing around this, both with the submarines and the recent reports submarines and the recent reports about Russian trawlers investigating our undersea infrastructure. But I'm very concerned that we only have one UK concerned that we only have one UK based and UK flagged repair ship. The CS sovereign is due to go out of service in 2030. I asked a question six months ago to DSIT around what they were doing to investigate repair replacing this capability. Could the Minister give us some assurance as to what the government's plans are to ensure that we have a UK based and UK

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flagged repair capability for our subsea infrastructure? I think the honourable and

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I think the honourable and gallant gentleman does raise a really important point around subsea infrastructure is something subsea infrastructure is something that I've taken a particular interest in working with colleagues across government, but including with the Ministry of Defence. He's also right to raise the threat that is well understood about the threat

13:57

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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is well understood about the threat from Russia. I know he will understand this. There's always a balance to be struck, both in terms of recognising the threat that they face and ensuring that we are properly prepared to defend against it, whilst at the same time, the director general of MI5 made this point that we shouldn't make them out to be better than they actually are and do the propaganda of the work on their behalf. But he has raised an important point. Let me look more carefully at the detail, and I'll come back to him with a more precise response.

13:58

Rachel Taylor MP (North Warwickshire and Bedworth, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Storms can strike anywhere, at any time. As I found out last week, in many of our communities, it's many of our communities, it's neighbours and volunteers who step in at critical times. In North Warwickshire and Bedworth, it's Warwickshire and Bedworth, it's groups like the Flood Action Group stepping in to keep homes safe. What more can the government do to ensure community groups can help make sure all vulnerable people are ready?

13:58

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Well. really important point, and she speaks about the kind of groups that all of us will have in our own constituencies, those local groups who come together to support each other and others. On a recent visit to Leicestershire, I saw the to Leicestershire, I saw the excellent work being done by a local flood action group in terms of protecting their community, following on from floods that they suffered. We've been very careful to ensure that the design of this campaign has been worked through with both local authorities, local resilience forums and a range of different voluntary and charitable organisations.

I believe very much in that sort of sense of public and community spirit that exists right across the country, and we want to encourage and enable that activity. So when an everyday emergency does strike, communities can come together and look out for each other. Speaker.

13:59

Freddie van Mierlo MP (Henley and Thame, Liberal Democrat)

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In my constituency. >> In my constituency. >> Of Henley and Thame, Greener Henley have already sprung into action and are seeking community action and are seeking community champions to organise street by street. So what action will the government take to support government take to support community level organisations to improve resilience, not just on a household basis but on a street level too?

13:59

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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14:00

Mary Creagh MP (Coventry East, Labour)

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. You and I spent many hours in meetings managing the disastrous fallout managing the disastrous fallout from South East Water's outages around Tunbridge Wells and the surroundings. And I'd like to put on record my thanks to you and colleagues from around the House for your role as trusted message bearers to people caught up in those outages. One of the lessons I took from that was the need for people who are both at the start of their life and at the end of their lives, to be properly looked after. What can my right hon.

And gallant friend do to make sure that local authorities, water companies and energy companies are working with local nurseries and critically acute NHS services so they know who has just left hospital, who is at end of life and who is under five,

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in order to put them proactively on the priority services register. Yeah. I'm grateful to my hon. Friend. She speaks with great authority on She speaks with great authority on these matters, not least from her own time in government. And she's right to make the point in the way right to make the point in the way that she does. I know that she will understand that there is a lot of work that takes place in local authority areas, and with local authority areas, and with local resilience forums, to look at the kind of issues that she's raised to ensure that there is that

14:01

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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ensure that there is that visibility of where there are more vulnerable households. And that's precisely why we're taking the opportunity to encourage members of the public and colleagues in this House to get their constituents to check their availability for the priority services register. That is a really useful document in this regard, but I know that local resilience forums will be working on the kind of issues that she's raised, and of course, we'll keep a close eye on them in government.

14:02

Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson MP (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge, Conservative)

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Mr. Gavin Williamson. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We all know that in points of emergency and such as power outages and so many other things, mobile and so many other things, mobile networks are incredibly important. The villagers of Huntington and Hatherton have virtually no signal Hatherton have virtually no signal at all, and withdrawal of the shared rural network, which is funding for rural communities to be able to get better mobile services. What should villagers such as this look towards doing to make sure that they can get those mobile

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networks that are so important at these critical times? Well, the right hon. Gentleman

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Well, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Mobile networks are very important, and I saw myself in the aftermath of Storm Goretti in Cornwall. The impact of losing that mobile and digital signal, even for a relatively short period of time, there is a lot of work taking place

14:03

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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there is a lot of work taking place in government, led out of DCMS to ensure that there is that resilience and in the aftermath of any extreme weather event, that there is urgent and ongoing work to restore capabilities where they've been lost. But my right hon. Friend makes an important point, and I know that, again, local resilience forums will be looking at the particular challenges in their areas, working with utility providers to ensure that where

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coverage is lost, it can be returned as quickly as possible. Mark Sewards thank you very much,

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Mark Sewards thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome the Minister's statement today. He will know very well that earlier this know very well that earlier this year, the Protecting what Matters strategy that was announced to this House also had some excellent House also had some excellent proposals to strengthen community resilience. I just wondered if you could update the House on progress could update the House on progress towards that strategy, and exactly which proposals we've made progress on up to date to this date.

14:03

Mark Sewards MP (Leeds South West and Morley, Labour)

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Well, I'm grateful to my friend. I think he raises an important point. I'm limited in the amount of time that I have to respond, but I can update him that there has been positive progress with regard to that particular area work. It sits adjacent to the discussion that we're having today, but he's right to raise it, because it is the case

14:04

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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that at points of everyday emergency, or where particular communities are subject to communities are subject to emergency circumstances, it can be the case that there are those who would seek to use that as an opportunity to sow mis and disinformation. So of course, the government is extremely mindful of that, and that is one of the reasons why the Prime Minister recently announced the creation of Nsaid Carmichael.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Lincoln three days supplies in the Northern Isles is what we do for confidence that we are having a mild winter. Just four years ago, parts of Shetland were without electricity for six days, so

14:04

Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)

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resilience will look differently in different parts of the country. But to take him back to his answer to to take him back to his answer to the hon. Member for Huntingdon, the government recently launched a consultation on critical undersea infrastructure, security and resilience. They seem in that to see the answer to be one of see the answer to be one of regulation and legislation. As the hon. Gentleman said to him, we need to have the capacity to effect repairs to undersea cables and not to do so with any long delay, as currently happens. So will he take away that need and the experience of my constituents in recent years, who have suffered a number of digital outbreaks, breakages as a consequence?

14:05

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Well, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise it. He and I have discussed it previously, and I have discussed it previously, and he explained with great clarity the impact of the loss of that capability had to his constituents. capability had to his constituents. I hope he gets a sense of the seriousness with which we take it. But both in terms of my right hon. Gentleman and the member opposite,

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Gentleman and the member opposite, I will write to them with more detail the work that we're doing. Helena Dollimore thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I wanted to raise the issue of water outages, which I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, you've also been working on in Sussex, too, and I've previously lobbied the Minister about upgrading how we see the risk of a water outage in the National Risk Register, and I was pleased to see that upgraded from the lowest form to the highest form of risk in the

14:06

Helena Dollimore MP (Hastings and Rye, Labour )

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most recent register. But I did want to flag some issues, particularly around the Priority Services register, which we have encountered during outages in Hastings. The first is that blocks of flats where you have multiple residents, but you have one bill residents, but you have one bill payer, such as a management company that is particularly common in sheltered accommodation. The water sheltered accommodation. The water industry has said to me that Southern Water and the industry find that their arrangements are designed around identified account holders and bill paying customers in centrally billed or bulk metered properties, such as blocks of flats.

Water companies typically have no direct relationship with individual residents and do not hold information about the circumstances, which creates a recognised industry challenge. So that is something we really need to look at in terms of resilience. And also I'm very aware they are not updating the risk register in line with the electoral register. So when people move out, it's not updated and they then end up with so many people on the register that the delivery has

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become unsustainable. So could the just. Interested in the response as it

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Interested in the response as it covers my constituency too, but we need to make sure questions are much shorter and answers on point. Minister.

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Minister. I certainly will look at that. And. Mr. Pritchard, if you're happy

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where you're sitting, is there anywhere you want to sit in the chamber today? Mark Pritchard thank you, Madam.

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Mark Pritchard thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. I throw me off my question. Can I just say the Security Minister, Cameron Thomas Minister, knows I have a huge amount of time for him, but I want to slightly break the consensus, mostly in the chamber today. I think the government's communications, mass communications, public communications are confused on this. On the one hand, we're being asked by senior Ministers to stock up on corned beef and water and whatever because of storms. Well, breaking news, there have been many storms over the last eight years in Shropshire and indeed around the country.

We've never been given this advice before.

14:08

Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)

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So if it is about being on a war preparedness, a war footing, as the former defence Secretary suggested former defence Secretary suggested we should all be, I think the government should just come clean and treat the British public with a and treat the British public with a little bit more respect. And the example, Madam Deputy Speaker, is at the beginning of the Ukrainian at the beginning of the Ukrainian war, defence intelligence was signed off by the then defence secretary, Ben Wallace. Defence intelligence was shared with the British public, so the British public came along with the government, came along with the Ministry of Defence, and I think that's what the security Minister needs to look at as a good example.

14:08

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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In case it wasn't understood earlier questions need to be shorter and answers on point Minister. >> Well, I have a lot of time for the right hon. Gentleman. He's basically asked a good series of basically asked a good series of questions that lend themselves more to a longer debate than I'm able to sort of do justice. But let me emphasise what I said earlier, that this campaign is about taking the simple, straightforward steps to be ready for everyday emergencies, like severe storms or flooding. However, at the same time, there is significant amount of bandwidth across government to be talking about some of the other threats that we face as a nation, and I think that that is what he is referring to.

Ultimately, what we've got to do, and this is done out of the centre. We've got to make sure that we are preparing at a local level, communities for the everyday emergencies that we've been talking about today, whilst at the same time, of course, making sure that we are properly prepared to face the very severe threats that we face from countries like Russia.

14:09

Graeme Downie thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. >> Just a few weeks ago, I hosted an event in Parliament with ambassadors from Denmark, Norway, Estonia and Finland around this exact topic. And there was two commonalities of themes about their commonalities of themes about their plans, and one was about building public trust. And hopefully what we are seeing today in the national conversation is part of that. But the second was around the need and indeed the benefits of engaging businesses both to inform employees and potentially use them as a resource as well, but also to say that they could be targets for something like a cyber attack, but also part of the response.

Can the Minister confirm that he will speak to those allies about that specific point around the importance of engaging businesses, and that will be considered as well?

14:10

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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So I'm grateful to him, and he >> So I'm grateful to him, and he makes an important point about engaging businesses. We're certainly doing that. We're also working closely with our allies, working closely with our allies, including the the countries that he referenced. Trust is important. The polling that we've done shows that 84% of the public expect the government to be providing this information, and only 30%, 13% of households think that they are properly prepared. So it is important that we establish that honest conversation with the public to give them good common sense, practical advice, which will mean that they will be more resilient in their own households.

And that's what we're doing.

14:11

Pete Wishart thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I represent the Madam Speaker. I represent the biggest river system in the UK and part of the UK that has some of the most inclement weather, so I and my constituents are fully familiar with being prepared and being ready for what is what could possibly come. But what I struggle with a little bit is the other stuff in the statement, and I'm baffled by the lumping together of storm readiness and other undefined threats that cannot be properly outlined and named as the Minister, not agree that storms and weather events are critical, known standalone threats, and there should be distinct and separate strategies for them.

Lumping it together with national security, subsea cables and cyber threats is confusing and perhaps even unhelpful to people who just want to be prepared.

14:11

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Let me say to the hon. Gentleman >> Let me say to the hon. Gentleman how important we are, how much importance we attach to doing this right around the United Kingdom. So right around the United Kingdom. So this is a UK wide campaign, and we have worked closely with partners in the devolved governments to ensure that this can be as simple and as joined up as possible. The relationship with colleagues in Scotland is a really important one, not least because of the challenges that he's alluded to. I hope that he will see that this is the beginning of a campaign.

Fundamentally, we're wanting to engage the public about simple measures that they can take in their own lives. This is a step, I hope, that he will join with us and support it.

14:12

Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. >> Can I thank the Minister for his statement and I. Welcome the be ready announcement. I've got ready announcement. I've got friends in Valencia who were impacted by the devastating flash floods in 2024, and Spain and many other countries have long provided resilience and emergency preparedness advice to their citizens. But thankfully, my friends Eva and Pablo only lost their cars in the floods. But that culture of resilience meant they had essentials at hand and could help neighbours and vulnerable people as part of a community effort, alongside the emergency services and regional authorities.

So with extreme weather threats now reality here in the UK, as we saw this weekend, as we agreed, it is right for us to adopt this approach to resilience and it is about everyone playing an active part in preparedness and in their communities.

14:13

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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I think she's absolutely right. It is about people playing an active part in their own active part in their own communities to ensure that collective resilience. She's also right to reference the example of Spain. Spain has been doing this Spain. Spain has been doing this work for a considerable period of time, and what they've been able to do is build more of a culture of resilience. That's common practice amongst our neighbours in Europe and further afield. And that culture of resilience is something that we're seeking to build here.

14:13

Stuart Anderson MP (South Shropshire, Conservative)

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Stuart Anderson thank you, Madam >> Stuart Anderson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In rural south Shropshire, we face flooding and power cuts every year. So I do power cuts every year. So I do welcome this campaign. However, I do not believe it's landed as the government intended because the Strategic Defence Review set out a whole of society approach and national conversation about the threats we face for resilience. And we've talked about the Finnish model. They clearly know the threats through proximity. I believe to get the public on side, we have to clearly set out the threats to critical national infrastructure that could close the internet down for several weeks, or power outages, things like that.

Does the Minister agree with me? Taking that approach will help the country prepare better.

14:14

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Yeah. >> Well, I'm grateful for his broad welcoming of the campaign and listen very carefully to what he had to say. And I don't think there is much disagreement between us. I mean, let me say to him that the government is constantly reviewing government is constantly reviewing and updating our response to a wide range of different threats and scenarios to ensure that we are prepared for every eventuality. He will know that through the home defence programme, we've been running a variety of security and resilience exercises. There are more of those to come. This is important work, but the Be Ready, Ready campaign sits as a strand of that activity, alongside other work that we're doing with other colleagues, including the Ministry of Defence.

14:15

Ms Abena Oppong-Asare MP (Erith and Thamesmead, Labour)

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Select Committee Chair, Cabinet, upon this RO thank. >> You, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome this statement and I support the Be Ready campaign. The support the Be Ready campaign. The committee heard from the Fire and Rescue Service, who are very much in support of the whole society resilience approach, but the constant theme that was coming out in terms of resilience was clarity in terms of what role that the government would like them to play in this space. So essentially, I'm urging the Minister to think, when looking at the Civil Contingencies Act, thinking about the role that the Fire and Rescue Service could play in that in that space, and process.

14:15

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Thank you. Committee raises an important point. This was something that I know that was discussed at the Prime Minister's inaugural wildfire summit just last week. It is summit just last week. It is absolutely on the Prime Minister's mind, and it's been raised with me on a number of occasions at a local level. I think she does make an important point, and I know that colleagues in other government departments, along with my own, are looking at what more we can do.

14:16

Adam Dance thank. one of my care homes in my constituency flooded last year within seconds. Yes, the government have given Somerset a lot more have given Somerset a lot more money towards flooding but doesn't go far enough. What else can this government do to support rural Somerset with being ready for flooding this year? Well, I understand why the hon. Gentleman will want to raise concerns about his own area. That's absolutely his his responsibility to do so. He will, I hope, have heard the comments I made earlier about the amount of money that's been invested in flood defences.

These are matters that we take. Incredibly importantly, I know as a former Metro mayor, the importance of issues relating to flooding and working across local authority boundaries to make sure that, along with the Environment Agency and water companies, we have proper response and a proper defensive posture put in place. It is a matter that I discuss regularly with my colleagues in Defra, and if with my colleagues in Defra, and if he's got any specific concerns or anything specifically he would like us to look at, then I'd be very us to look at, then I'd be very happy to do that on his behalf.

14:18

Greg Smith MP (Mid Buckinghamshire, Conservative)

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Jayne Kirkham thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As a Cornish MP we had 18,000 off grid again with

14:19

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Storm Austin this weekend and we all worked together closely during Goretti. And I want to mention Goretti. And I want to mention Cormac, our farmers, the National Grid and our parish councils. This national guidance was missing

14:19

national guidance was missing during Goretti. It's really important that we now have it and we have this locally led response

14:19

Alex Ballinger MP (Halesowen, Labour)

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with parish emergency plans in place as well. Other countries have been doing this for years, and I'm really pleased this government has

14:19

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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really pleased this government has finally done this and brought this in and and run this campaign. One of the issues we will have, though, always is comms. We don't have copper wire anymore. Maybe those internet and mobile providers should be category two responders under the Civil Contingencies Act. And I wonder if the Minister could comment on that. comment on that. Well, I'm very grateful to her, not least because the Cornwall experience and the the experience of Storm Goretti has been genuinely really important in terms of shaping this campaign, and I'm grateful to her and her Cornish colleagues for the important role that they play.

I know that there will be a storm summit taking place in Cornwall towards the end of November, and I've asked the director of Cobra and his deputy to be there, and I think that provides a really important forum for discussing the kind of issues that discussing the kind of issues that the hon. Lady has raised today. Greg Smith thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In any emergency, communication is key. And in answering my right hon. Friend for Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge question, earlier, the Minister talked about restoring mobile services if they'd been damaged in, for example, a storm.

But that rather misses the point for villages like those that my right hon. Friend mentioned, and villages in my constituency like Cuddington and Bryants bottom that have no mobile signal right now. So through mobile signal right now. So through this resilience work, what more can the right hon. Gentleman do with other government departments to speed up delivery of the shared rural network and get those rural, not spots the connectivity that they need and deserve?

14:23

Torcuil Crichton MP (Na h-Eileanan an Iar, Labour)

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So I think the hon. Member does make an important point.

14:23

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Communication is key. I know you'll understand. I was responding to a specific point about where a particular capability had been lost particular capability had been lost and how that could be restored as quickly as possible. But I take his point about areas that don't have

14:23

that connectivity in the first place. I'm sure that that is a conversation that we want to have across government to look at what across government to look at what more we can do working with colleagues in DCMs. But let me take it away and I'll come back to him

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with some further thoughts. Thank you, Madam Deputy. Speaker, and I welcome the government's serious approach to civil preparedness. I just wanted

14:24

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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to push back slightly against some members on the benches opposite, which said kind of implied there was a difference between being was a difference between being prepared for natural disasters and being prepared for some of the hybrid attacks we're seeing across Europe. I mean, in recent months, we've seen attacks against energy infrastructure and attacks against railways, attacks against supply

14:24

Fred Thomas MP (Plymouth Moor View, Labour)

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railways, attacks against supply chains. And the same preparedness, I think, would help UK folk prepare for that as well as for natural for that as well as for natural disasters. I was in at the Finnish Embassy a few days ago to talk about this particular issue. As other colleagues have mentioned, they talk about businesses working together with the voluntary sector, working together with public bodies. I wonder if the Minister could say a bit more about how we're learning from countries like Finland on the whole of society working together.

whole of society working together.

14:25

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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Thank you Jarvis. example which has been mentioned previously, I think is a very good example of that. I know that he will understand that this campaign

14:25

Adrian Ramsay MP (Waveney Valley, Green Party)

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brings the UK into line with many other countries across Europe and other countries across Europe and further afield. It builds on the existing guidance that has already been published on gov.uk. But of course there is another important point to make, which is the actions people take in their own households.

14:26

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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people take in their own households. To be ready for one emergency can also help in the context of other emergencies as well.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. The United Kingdom is arguably already in a state of hybrid war against our adversaries. So my question is, with the strategy that is designed to strengthen community resilience. Can I

14:27

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Independent)

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Ask. >> Anticipates as part of this program, not least to make this resilience program resilient against the kind of active disinformation that's likely to seek to undermine the very strategy that he is putting forward. And in that spirit, how will this dovetail with the National for disinformation?

14:28

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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The.

14:27

Perran Moon MP (Camborne and Redruth, Independent)

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that there is, I think, a reasonably obvious correlation reasonably obvious correlation between resilience at a local and community level, as well as there being a kind of national resilience.

14:27

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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being a kind of national resilience. Our national resilience is only able to be as strong as it can be able to be as strong as it can be if we've kind of underpinned it with work that takes place at a localised level. This is work that

14:28

Rachel Gilmour MP (Tiverton and Minehead, Liberal Democrat)

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localised level. This is work that we have not done previously as a government, and we do need to build that wider societal resilience. And we're starting bottom up by investing in individual households to ensure that that that is localised resilience. There will be wider, deeper benefits to our national security as a consequence of that. Ncid was something that the Prime Minister announced just recently, which will mean that we are much better placed to deter and are much better placed to deter and defeat the disinformation that we've seen for too long.

14:29

Markus Campbell-Savours MP (Penrith and Solway, Labour)

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Torcuil Crichton. Can I quickly pay tribute to the men and women of Scottish and Southern Electricity who are out there right now, reconnecting homes

14:29

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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in the Western Isles who have lost power over the weekend due to the storms. Resilience is inbuilt in

14:29

Helen Maguire MP (Epsom and Ewell, Liberal Democrat)

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storms. Resilience is inbuilt in the islands, but as other members have pointed out, we have major problems with connectivity because of this move from analogue to digital phone lines, which means when the power goes out, people don't have the phone, they don't have the internet, and often they

14:30

Rt Hon Dan Jarvis MP, Minister of State (Home Office) (Security) (Jointly with the Cabinet Office) (Barnsley North, Labour)

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have the internet, and often they don't have a mobile signal either. Now BT and Openreach is response Now BT and Openreach is response giving power packs to vulnerable, vulnerable customers who ask for it. It's simply not adequate, and mobile phone providers simply do not have the means to maintain or keep their signal going during storms. Can the Minister call on these companies, get them to up their digital game to ensure that there is digital resilience, and not just in the places that are easy, but on the edge where people are vulnerable, isolated from their neighbours, with a where the ambulance is an hour away and on ambulance is an hour away and on the storm with 70 miles an hour.

Well, my hon. Friend is right to raise the concerns in the way that he has. I can tell him that our telecommunications networks are a vital part of the UK's critical national infrastructure, and our national infrastructure, and our emergency response in weather related crises supports the functioning of essential services and keeping people connected when and keeping people connected when they need it most. I know he will understand there is an important role for DCMS, but I have listened role for DCMS, but I have listened very carefully to the comments that he has made, and I'll speak to colleagues in that department about it.

David Reed thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister will know how much I want the government to be ready. Campaign campaigns succeed, and I've shared my views with him

14:32

Points of Order

at length because the threats are real and they are increasing. But if the government is going to go

14:32

Tim Farron MP (Westmorland and Lonsdale, Liberal Democrat)

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if the government is going to go out and ask people to stock up on tinned food and wind up radios, and they have to be honest, when we are they have to be honest, when we are actually attacked now. The shadow Minister raised the case of Jaguar Land Rover and the fact that a Land Rover and the fact that a former armed forces Minister said at the weekend that this was state sponsored. This is incredibly serious. So can the Minister use

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serious. So can the Minister use this opportunity to tell us which state was responsible? Yeah.

14:33

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint the hon. Member opposite, that I'm not going to use this occasion of talking about be ready to get into talking about be ready to get into matters relating to cyber attribution, not least because I know he will understand that these are complicated processes that need to be done in a certain way. The House will be well versed in the

14:34

Ten Minute Rule Motion: Developer contributions (infrastructure delivery)

challenges that Jaguar Land Rover faced last year. There is a lot of work, a lot of work across government to ensure that resilience, both amongst the public and private sector organisations here in the United Kingdom. I will here in the United Kingdom. I will have more to say about it with the launch of the National Cyber Action year. year.

14:34

James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)

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14:45

Legislation: Building Safety (Remediation of Unsafe Cladding etc.,) Bill: Second Reading

Mr.

14:45

Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Ashton-under-Lyne, Labour)

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15:12

Katie Lam MP (Weald of Kent, Conservative)

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15:24

Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)

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15:39

Gideon Amos MP (Taunton and Wellington, Liberal Democrat)

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Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm really sorry to hear about the situation in his constituency. My situation in his constituency. My hon. Friend's constituency and many members across this House since the Grenfell tragedy have had similar experiences of fires and fatalities. And as I outlined, in terms of the thousands of buildings that need this remediation as Secretary of State, it's one of the things that weighs heavy on my mind every night. Madam Deputy Speaker, I would not want my family to be in a property that was unsafe. And I think that's why this bill is so important.

And the hon. My hon. Friend makes an important point about waking

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watches, which I'll come on to in further into my speech, I'll give way to the hon. Gentleman. I thank the Minister for giving

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I thank the Minister for giving way. I just want a clarification, Minister, because I believe that only 10% of 394 pledged developing only 10% of 394 pledged developing projects are ever completed. But under this bill, I believe that resident management companies can face criminal charges. But the face criminal charges. But the developers who sign the pledges don't. Can you clarify that for.

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Yes, yes. We're trying to make sure that those that are responsible are part of that. And we know that people like manufacturers, etcetera, have been using routes to try and get out of paying their fair share and doing what they need to do. This remediation bill, Madam Deputy Speaker, is about closing some of those gaps that we see, and I'll be looking forward to working with the hon. Gentleman as this bill goes through the House. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have also made sure that social housing housing providers also have ambitious targets for the completion of our remediation work for which they are responsible.

The data is clear that the action is working. Since we published the remediation acceleration Plan, over 470 more buildings are reported to have completed remediation. That's around three 35,000 more residents who can at least feel safer in their homes. I'll give way one last time. Thank you.

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I really appreciate her for giving way. I just want to press the Secretary of State just a the Secretary of State just a little bit further, because there's a a block of flats that are under 11m in my constituency. There have 11m in my constituency. There have already been recognised as priority, but the challenge that's being faced at the moment is the release faced at the moment is the release of that funding, and I'd just appreciate it if she would arrange to meet with me or indeed agree to

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to meet with me or indeed agree to look at this further. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and my officials would have heard that call, and either myself or the Minister who sat in her place will be happy to meet with the hon. Member. And coming back to my hon. Friend's point regarding residents paying for costly waking watch patrols. Madam Deputy Speaker, We provided an additional £62 million for fire alarms in buildings with defects. This will keep residents safe until remediation work is completed and saves leaseholders around £280 per month. And we are also taking action on insurance.

We will introduce secondary legislation to do two things strengthen transparency and bring the Insurance Commission's ban into force. That ban will stop people, including freeholders and property manager agents, from passing those commissions on to leaseholders. This will end the. This will end the incentive for unscrupulous landlords and agents to seek out unearned, unearned profits and simply pass the cost on to innocent leaseholders. I'll give way to the member that. The Chair OK, I'd like to thank the Secretary of State for giving way. I just want to thank her work on this. Some of the campaigners have raised concerns about the past methods in terms of how the government has come to the conclusion, in terms of how it's legislated, I think there's concerns that it could be gained by developers making making the situation much worse for residents.

We're grateful for clarification on that.

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Thank you. We are establishing a single, consistent approach to assessing external walls. The buildings are judged on the same basis. Central judged on the same basis. Central to this is the past 9980, which will become the required standard for fire risk appraisals of external walls and before the end of the year. Madam Deputy Speaker, we will bring forward the we will bring forward the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill. This will put power back in the hands of residents and tackle unfair costs and charges. We will cap ground rents at £250 per year before reducing them to a peppercorn after 40 years, and also Cap administration fees.

15:50

Jack Abbott MP (Ipswich, Labour )

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Thank you, Secretary, for. >> Thank you, Secretary, for. >> Giving way, and I very much welcome back to the Cabinet. It took months of legal wrangling, court time to secure £1 million court time to secure £1 million refund for leaseholders and £9 million in remediation works on Empire Square in Southwark. So I Empire Square in Southwark. So I fully support the government action to tackle the freeholder delays and neglect and some of the charges. But could. The Secretary sets out how some of the penalty levels were set in this legislation. The southern section is capped at 14,000, which seems very low given the overall sums involved, and perhaps the Secretary could set out how the Department is working with leaseholders and other stakeholders to set fees that secure the pace required to deliver the ambition

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that she and the government has. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. And, Madam Deputy intervention. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, this is about fixing the challenges that we face and making sure that those that are not taking responsibility do that, and I'm responsibility do that, and I'm happy to continue the conversations with my hon. Friend to make sure that we get that balance right. But that we get that balance right. But that's what we want, Madam Deputy Speaker, we want these people to take responsibility and to do the take responsibility and to do the remediation work and the remediation bill before the House.

Today is the next major step in the

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ending of the building safety Member. Thank you, Secretary of State, greatly, and I applaud what she's greatly, and I applaud what she's doing. But can I just ask her, please, would it not be sensible to please, would it not be sensible to stop the business of fire engineers paid for by the building owners paid for by the building owners from using past 9980 to sign off dangerous cladding as acceptable? So that assessments actually confirmed that buildings meet building regulations instead.

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Well we'll be we're working on this. And the past nine, 980 is the this. And the past nine, 980 is the established approach used across government remediation program programs. And it provides a robust programs. And it provides a robust and proportionate way of identifying the risk of fire spreading through a building's external walls. Madam Deputy external walls. Madam Deputy Speaker and the action needed to keep residents safe. I'll give way

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keep residents safe. I'll give way one last time. Madam Speaker, it's a rare opportunity. To get to speak. And get the.

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Secretary. Of State in the House. That's not a reflection on is this is what not a reflection on is this is what I have a constituent who's very expert in fire safety, and we know that there's been a forged EWS1 that there's been a forged EWS1 form issue, but instead of having the set standards, the fire safety is now done on measures of tolerability. And I've raised this tolerability. And I've raised this in a Westminster Hall debate with her colleague, the housing or one of the housing Ministers, because this is a real concern going this is a real concern going forward.

This bill doesn't address all of that. And I wonder if this is in her mind and whether she can meet with other with interested members of Parliament across party, because a number of us have this issue. And my very able constituent Ian Lavery, who's a very expert on this, to discuss how we can make sure that we're future proofing the system because we cannot afford to

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have mistakes made as we try and solve the problems of the past. Well, again. I. Thank my hon.

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I. Thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and shows that actually, this remediation bill is crucial and remediation bill is crucial and important as part of our ongoing challenges with the Remediation Action Plan, and the Minister will Action Plan, and the Minister will be quite happy to meet with her to go through the specifics in terms of the fire safety and the regulations that we have regarding that, Madam Deputy Speaker, but this bill will help us to complete the task of identifying all remaining buildings requiring remediation.

It will introduce an 11 to 18 metre building register, giving government a complete record for the first time of all medium

15:57

Mr Will Forster MP (Woking, Liberal Democrat)

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rise buildings in England. It will also mandate how external wall also mandate how external wall assessments are carried out to ensure a nationally consistent approach to remediation. And for approach to remediation. And for the first time, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Bill makes it indisputable that responsible entities have to remediate building safety defects with urgency through safety defects with urgency through a new legal duty to remediate, they must take action now or risk severe consequences, including criminal charges, where appropriate. And I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is unacceptable that enforcement is too slow and penalties too weak to compel those responsible to act.

It is why we will give regulators the tools that they need, including the ability to issue escalating financial penalties, penalties or pursue criminal prosecution in the worst cases. And from now on, no building and no resident will be left behind. Our new remediation backstop will allow public bodies to step in and carry out remediation work for themselves. This will mean that residents have a route to remediation, even where the responsible entity is determined to ignore their duty to

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keep residents safe. Thank very much for giving way.

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Thank very much for giving way. Exactly 12 months ago, I met with the then Minister alongside the mum and brother of Amanda Walker. and brother of Amanda Walker. Amanda sadly took her own life as a result of the cladding scandal, result of the cladding scandal, which consumed her completely. Before her death, she gave evidence to the Other place seeking five to the Other place seeking five changes, including closing the loopholes that leave non-qualifying and enfranchised leaseholders exposed, and an industry funded remediation scheme. I know the Minister is aware of Amanda's case.

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I just ask that she would consider Amanda's asks as the bill continues through this place. Yeah.

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Yeah. I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting this case and the highlighting this case and the incredible work that the family have done. And I wrote Madam Deputy Speaker to her mother today, who Speaker to her mother today, who has been absolutely tremendous in making sure that some of the making sure that some of the measures that are within this bill have been tabled. And, you know, it was a devastating case. And and thank the Member for for raising it today.

As I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, our measures will be backed by tough sanctions so that responsible parties cannot benefit, including cost recovery and the potential sale of their interests

16:03

Darren Paffey MP (Southampton Itchen, Labour)

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in the building. We will also bring an end to indefinite decants, where an end to indefinite decants, where residents are evacuated from their homes and given absolutely no assurances as to when they can assurances as to when they can return, and we will empower residents to make sure that their buildings are safe, even where the buildings are safe, even where the responsible entity is absent, neglect or insolvent. But, Madam neglect or insolvent. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is not just about getting the work done. It's also about making sure that the cost of the remediation work is borne by those that are responsible for the building safety crisis.

And this brings me on to construction product manufacturers who produced unsafe cladding and released it onto the market and have yet to meaningfully contribute towards the remediation work. As well as being unjust. This puts additional financial pressure on those that are getting on with doing the work, and this bill will fix long standing gaps in the law. Developers, contractors and others who have paid to make buildings safe will be able to properly pursue manufacturers rather than being blocked by technical legal barriers. And that's not all. I intend to table amendments as the Bill passes through Parliament to go further on the construction product redress through this bill, for the first time, we will require relevant construction product manufacturers to contribute towards remediation costs met by the taxpayer.

It is not right that taxpayers should shoulder the burden on their behalf. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, at the heart of everything that we do to make buildings safe are the residents and leaseholders who bear absolutely no responsibility for the building safety crisis, but feel it's most acute consequences. The most important thing that we can do for residents is to remediate their homes as quickly as possible, to ensure that they are safe. But this is not just a safety crisis for many leaseholders. The presence of unsafe cladding on their homes has had a terrible financial toll.

Whilst the Building Safety Act protects the majority of leaseholders from substantial building safety costs, there are some groups, Madam Deputy Speaker, who remain excluded and are exposed to remediation bills. Some are forced to pay higher insurance premiums until their buildings are made safe. And as a member of this government, which is committed to lowering the cost of living, I am not prepared to let this continue. That is why today I can announce that the government will go further than ever to shield leaseholders from the financial burden of this crisis. I am pleased to announce today that this government will commit grant funding towards the remediation of high risk, high cost internal fire safety defects in eligible, collectively owned and enfranchised buildings.

These buildings do not benefit, Madam Deputy Speaker, from the existing protections because there is no separate freeholder to carry the costs. This funding will narrow the gap between leaseholders in these buildings and those already protected from remediation costs under the Building Safety Act,

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giving them greater certainty and support in making their homes safe. On that very point.

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On that very point. Yeah. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Secretary.

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Of State for her drive and determination on this very important matter? Could she perhaps update the House on a little bit more of the detail relating to this particular group of residents, and in particular, those who face issues with dangerous materials inside their properties, such as inside their properties, such as wood or other inappropriate materials, which have led to a potential fire safety problem.

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Thank you. Well, again, I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. And hopefully what I've said today and hopefully what I've said today and outlined today goes some way to giving reassurance to those that have raised this issue with us. And have raised this issue with us. And since my return to government, my noble friend Baroness Blake, who is watching the debate today, and I watching the debate today, and I have met with End Our Cladding Scandal, we have heard the requests of their members and other of their members and other leaseholders to expand the leaseholder protections in the Building Safety Act, and we have heard from those who fought, who bought their first home, only to find it is a non-qualifying lease.

This government will investigate whether we can extend the protection to any leaseholder who owns a lease as their only principal home. We have also heard the plight of those with small portfolios who were excluded from protection as this bill passes through Parliament. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will table amendments to expand the gap on protection from 3 to 6 properties, and in the manifesto, we committed to reviewing how to better protect leaseholders from costs. These actions show, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we are a government who is committed to keeping its promises.

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Would my right hon. Friend be. I very much welcome what she has just announced in respect of those just announced in respect of those who found themselves. The owner, unbeknown of a non-qualifying flat because of the previous owner, it's because of the previous owner, it's clearly unfair that they should be penalised. Will that legislation be retrospective? Because I have the retrospective? Because I have the case of a constituent who, unbeknown to him, had bought a non-qualifying flat and was non-qualifying flat and was gobsmacked, traumatised, actually, to discover that this is what had happened to him.

And he is facing potentially huge costs. So will someone who's already in that

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position benefit from the amendment? My right hon. Friend has just announced. Well, we're hoping to make sure

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Well, we're hoping to make sure that nobody is left out and feeling those these pressures and the. My those these pressures and the. My hon. Friend makes a very important point, and I think that, as I point, and I think that, as I outlined before, from many of the groups that we've met with recently, they are making the case that we they are making the case that we need to be pushing harder to do everything we can. And as we go through this bill, going through Parliament, we're happy the the Minister is happy to meet with members to see how far we can go to make sure that we're doing everything we said in our manifesto, in our commitment to accelerate the pace of remediation, to better protect the leaseholders, and to ensure that those responsible for the crisis pay towards putting it right.

And our record since 2024 shows that we are getting on with

16:17

Carla Denyer MP (Bristol Central, Green Party)

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the job, but there is still work to do. It's why the remediation of unsafe cladding bill will go further than ever before. Every building we make safe helps those building we make safe helps those living in these flats and those looking to buy a home the confidence that they are safe. This is about restoring trust, Madam Deputy Speaker. In our housing Deputy Speaker. In our housing market, protecting our communities and bringing an end to the building safety crisis once and for all. And I pay tribute once again, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the Grenfell community, the survivors, the families that were affected, and for all of us who have contributed to getting to this stage and making sure that we have this bill in front of us today, and I commend

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this bill to the House. The question is that the bill will be now read a second time, and I call the shadow Secretary of

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I call the shadow Secretary of State, Katie Lam. Yay! Thank you, Madam Deputy. Speaker, and I thank the Secretary of State for her remarks. Secretary of State for her remarks. All of us across this House agree on the fundamental need to resolve this issue. As the right hon. Lady this issue. As the right hon. Lady has so movingly said, the appalling fire at Grenfell Tower and the resultant loss of life was resultant loss of life was horrifying, and I join her in her tribute to the victims, survivors, their friends and family. We all agreed that the homes in which people live are the place where they ought to feel safest.

That so many people across the country are still living in homes which have been rendered unsafe is deeply concerning, and we welcome the government's desire to put it right. Those of us on this side of the House do have some concerns about some of the specific provisions of this bill, and about whether or not the proposed measures will definitely ensure that more people end up living in safer homes. I will set some of these out today, and we look forward to working with the government to improve this bill, however we can. At the moment, remediation of unsafe cladding is often slow because there are simply not enough qualified people to do the work.

This point has been mentioned this afternoon by the hon. Lady, the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch, but I would like to spend a moment on it. Every affected building needs a specialist assessment of its external walls. At a time when both fire engineers and assessors are in short supply, training new specialists takes years. Yet this bill does not lay out any particular plans about the training of these skilled professionals. Contractors faced the same shortage of skilled labour and materials. Too often, owners who want to act cannot find anyone to carry out the work. It is slow because the work is complicated and unpredictable.

When old cladding is removed, contractors regularly find further defects. So the scope, the cost and the delays all grow. On top of these practical difficulties, many

16:23

Mike Reader MP (Northampton South, Labour)

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of the buildings concerned are part owned by their leaseholders, and it is slow because practical is slow because practical implementation of the existing legal regime is fragmented. Remediation is managed building by building with responsibility, split between owners, managing agents, controls and three overlapping controls and three overlapping regulators. Unsurprisingly, that drives up costs and drags out timelines. However willing the timelines. However willing the owners are. This bill's answer is to ask the three regulators to write a statement on how they will co-operate, which is not the same as getting the work done. We already have evidence that a legal obligation, such as the one proposed in this bill, does not by itself guarantee timely remediation.

Developers on the Developer Remediation Contract, which the last conservative government implemented, say that developers, not taxpayers, would cover the cost of remediation, are already bound by equivalent requirements, which is why this bill exempts them. The government's own figures show that developers have finished work on only a third of their buildings, and fewer than 1 in 4 of all their buildings with life critical defects. The National Fire Chiefs Council, in responding to the Public Accounts Committee, has warned that limited workforce capacity is the primary bottleneck to remediation. NFCC chairman Mark Hardingham put it best when he said that we cannot enforce our way out

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of the cladding crisis gladly. Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, and I the hon. Lady for giving way, and I don't want to make this a party political point, because I think that we all know this was one of the biggest failures in regulation in many generations, and it's affected many people very badly. But it is a disappointment. I wonder if she can reflect as a new new to her post and new in this Parliament, that that sometimes decisions need to be made early. decisions need to be made early. And it was under James Brokenshire, a predecessor in to the Secretary of State.

He made some bold decisions in the early days after Grenfell, and sadly, he's no longer with us. But then there were delays in things like getting fire, fire safety surveyors trained up. It takes three years. If those decisions had been made earlier, we would be in a better position now. I just wonder, you know, in a spirit of trying to improve things, if she wants to reflect on perhaps why those decisions were made and

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why we need to be backing this government bill to make sure that we move as fast as we can. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I think it is fair to say that there have been all sorts say that there have been all sorts of ways in which the response to this appalling event and, and the wider questions that it raised did wider questions that it raised did not happen as quickly as we might have liked, were not as effective as we might have liked, otherwise we wouldn't still be discussing it we wouldn't still be discussing it today. But I think what's important now is that we make sure that whatever plan we come up with together as a parliament is the most effective that it can be to make sure that people are living in the safest possible homes.

That's

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that is our Our responsibility now. It. It should not come as a surprise that legislating to make something true does not make it so. Passing a law which says that buildings must be which says that buildings must be fixed will not create a single new fire engineer. But rather than easing these practical bottlenecks, easing these practical bottlenecks, this bill too often assumes that the main blocker to timely is owners deliberately choosing not to owners deliberately choosing not to act. And our fear is that, as drafted, it may risk making the problem worse. Under this bill, every building must be assessed within a year, and every assessment that recommends work must be audited by Homes England, drawing on the very same small pool of specialists.

There are owners who obstruct and they should face the full force of the law. But they are the exception and not the rule. Once again, I do not doubt the intentions of this bill are noble, Madam Deputy Speaker, but we must always be careful that legislation,

16:30

Sarah Olney MP (Richmond Park, Liberal Democrat)

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drafted with the best of intentions, does not produce unintended consequences. Perhaps the clearest consequences. Perhaps the clearest risk of unintended consequences comes with regard to the new legal duty proposed by this bill. Owners could see themselves facing two could see themselves facing two years in prison, or penalties of up to half £1 million for deliberately failing to remediate as soon as reasonably practicable. Those standards, deliberately and as soon as reasonably practicable, are as reasonably practicable, are broad and subjective, particularly given the severity of the punishments prescribed by this Bill, and given that many of the decisions about whether or not owners have complied with these standards will fall to the regulator, can the government be sure that due regard will be given to the very real practical hurdles to remediation?

What guidance will regulators get on? What counts as reasonably practicable? The government will doubtless intend that these measures are to be used only in the most extreme cases of deliberate obstruction or delay. But we must be incredibly careful when designing new legal duties and new criminal penalties. Like it or not, these will both hang over owners who are attempting to act in good faith but are constrained by the practical difficulty of remediation. Likewise, opening up directors to personal prosecution on grounds of neglect risks generating unintended consequences, too. While directors liability for building safety is long established, this bill goes much further.

Has the government assessed how many capable people will simply refuse to be named as directors on remediation compliance plans? What will it do to the cost of directors insurance? And what impact will it have on the willingness of well-run management firms to get involved in residential property? How many will conclude that it is simply no longer worth the legal risk? Has the government assessed whether or

16:34

Rebecca Long Bailey MP (Salford, Labour)

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not this will have an impact on access to directors insurance more broadly? And has the government assessed whether or not this bill assessed whether or not this bill could create a disincentive to involvement in residential property by well-run management firms? Another point of concern derives from this bill's approach to group accountability for parent companies and firms, which are deemed to and firms, which are deemed to exercise control. They build on powers already in the 2022 act, but extend them from recovering costs extend them from recovering costs to imposing penalties for offences. And the government must do more to explain where this stops.

In 2022, parliament let a court or tribunal look through a company structure where it was just and equitable to do so. This bill would allow a regulator to adopt quasi judicial powers and enforce large penalties. In doing so. Limited liability is an important principle. Madam Deputy Speaker, which has endured in its modern form in this country for more than a century and a half. It encourages investment and entrepreneurship. The erosion of limited liability that this bill represents may set a worrying precedent. Until now, Parliament has only qualified this principle through the courts. This bill qualifies the principle through regulators rather than judges.

If that is acceptable in one sector, why not in others? And even if we confine ourselves to this specific sector, can the government be sure that the erosion of limited liability will not create a direct deterrent to investment in large residential properties, including build to rent? Housing in this country is far too expensive for far too many people. People must be able to trust that their homes are safe, but they also need to be homes for them to buy or rent in the first place. Another concerning legal precedent emerges from this bill's provisions on retrospective liability for product manufacturers.

In 2022, the last government gave building owners a route to claim against the manufacturers of defective cladding. This bill goes much further. It loosens the test itself so that a product need only have contributed more than trivially to a building being unsafe. The government must explain why the 2022 test was not enough. Complying with the regulations in force at the time will no longer be a defence. Firms that followed the rules can no longer rely on having done so. Nobody would deny the existence of bad actors Madam Deputy Speaker firms which have broken the rules or falsified evidence about their own compliance.

Such firms and such actors have put people in danger, and some of the consequences have been unimaginably awful. They must be punished. But there is no reason to believe that these firms would have complied had the legal standard been tougher. The point is that firms which break the rules are going to break the rules no matter what they are. The problem is, as is so often the case, one of. Enforcement. And yet, in an effort to tackle this non-compliant minority.

This bill extends retrospective liability well beyond what Parliament agreed in 2022, something which we must always be very cautious about when firms or

16:41

Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP (Leeds South, Labour)

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individuals cannot be sure that complying with the law today will ensure legal safety tomorrow. Their behaviour can change. They may be behaviour can change. They may be more reticent to enter the market in the first place, and certainly more reticent to innovate. Insurers will price in that risk and every new home will cost more to build. As with so many aspects of this bill, in attempting to achieve a noble aim, the government risks undermining important principles. The presumption against The presumption against retrospective legislation, the principle of limited liability, the principle of clear legal tests. These are foundational to the way in which we have designed the law in this country.

We can deviate from them. Of course, in our country, Parliament is sovereign and can make whatever law that it chooses. But when we do deviate, we ought to make sure that this is done with a full appreciation of the facts and the implications. It will only happen when we can see no other way to solve the problem at hand. And it should certainly only happen when we are sure that new legislation, rather than better enforcement or efforts to ease practical bottlenecks, is the right course of action. Once again, I would like to reiterate my appreciation for the intention behind this bill that anybody should feel unsafe in their own home because of structural or material faults is a profoundly depressing state of affairs.

Yet, in pursuing this noble aim, we have concerns that the government may not have given due regard to some of the unintended consequences of the solutions it proposes. As this bill progresses, we will probe all these points and more, and we look

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forward to working with the same noble aim to improve this bill, however we can. I call the Member for Kensington

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and Bayswater Joe Powell. Thank you, Madam.

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Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. I wish we didn't have to be here debating this bill today. First and foremost, because today. First and foremost, because we are here largely due to the Grenfell Tower fire over nine years ago. And it is right that we again remember the 72 who lost their lives in an entirely avoidable fire and recognised the suffering bereaved survivors and the Grenfell community in my constituency continue to endure. I want to place on record my thanks to the Prime Minister for his commitment at questions two weeks ago, to work with me every day for justice for the victims and for the determination of the Secretary of State to find solutions across government to implement the Grenfell inquiry recommendations and make necessary changes to how our state functions, including on building safety.

Our hope and expectation is that those responsible will face the full force of the law when the Crown Prosecution Service make their charging decisions by May next year. On the 20 organisations and 54 individuals passed to them by the Metropolitan Police. And while we wait for justice through criminal accountability. Almost ten years on, we must also pursue justice through meaningful change in policies, laws and culture. And that is how I approach this bill today. But the second reason I wish we weren't here is that I believe many of the provisions in this bill should have been enacted a long time ago, and at very least, should have been part of the 2022 Building Safety Act.

How is it that the state of Victoria in Australia has completed works on 99% of the 1600 buildings, which needed remediation in a similar time frame since Grenfell? While we have only completed 39% of 4724 identified buildings and more have not even been assessed, something this bill tries to assess. In Victoria in 2020, they passed a law setting up a group that assessed all buildings over three storeys, identified those at risk using a common state prescribed standard, and then paid for the work via a fund upfront, in part capitalised by developer contributions.

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And I think what he said is absolutely excellent. Does he accept that there is a sort of accept that there is a sort of cultural issue surrounding this, in that the dangerous cladding on Grenfell, as on many other places, was dismissed as being unimportant because it was often poor working because it was often poor working class families living in those places, and they simply didn't care about it. And this bill, I hope, about it. And this bill, I hope, will change that culture, as well as bringing safety to an awful lot of people.

16:51

Matt Rodda MP (Reading Central, Labour)

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I think the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Residents were ignored who raised concerns, the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea made a decision on cutting costs, which resulted in the contract that was ended up being such a major contributory factor to what happened. And I should say I haven't had the chance to say this on the record, but I'm really pleased that one of the individuals involved in that is no longer leading housing in Barnet for their TMO there. That was a wrong decision and it has been corrected and I. I'm glad that they they've done that.

And in short, what Victoria did is the government stepped in to put homeowners and residents first and instead, in this country, the previous government took a market based approach that has comprehensively failed, in my view, to deliver remediation in a timely way. And why? Because in my view, for too long, the British state has been too passive in the face of this problem, relying on private developers to come up with the answers while millions of people have suffered the consequences. Indeed, I think the British state's response to the cladding scandal has exposed many of the weaknesses.

I know this government wants to fix unaccountable power, opaque ownership and shirking of responsibility. Penny wise, cost cutting that stores up massive costs in the future, and a lack of public control over the basics in life, including housing. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope this bill will make a contribution to that effort by creating more jeopardy for those delaying remediation and more options to finally fix every building that needs it. But the work to make buildings safe must continue even while we debate this bill. There are powers that currently exist, including remediation orders and remediation contribution orders, that can be useful tools if Ministers provide that hands on grip on the crisis, coordinating local remediation plans, creating national standards and, I should say, ensuring the Budget tomorrow continues to fund the department to get the work moving now.

I believe we belatedly do need to shift to a fix first and fast model based on risk, as the Secretary of State said, and leveraging all the existing avenues

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that exist to get work started. Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and hon. Friend for giving way and concur with his tributes to those who lost their lives and loved ones who lost their lives and loved ones in the tragedy of Grenfell. Remember the shocking this place when that happened. I have this when that happened. I have this real concern about tolerability and how fire safety is assessed, and this was something that built up over generations that were not. over generations that were not. He's given a summary of it, but the the decisions on building safety were left to the wrong people.

There was no outside inspection. And tolerability is is a subjective standard. Rather than having a safe, a set of fixed standards. I wondered if he had anything to say about that, because I think we need to be really clear as we're going forward. We fix that problem, and it's not down to individuals where some developers can cherry pick who will assess the building safety of a block, knowing that some people will pass when others would be more rigorous.

That is not an acceptable situation. Joe Powell.

16:59

Apsana Begum MP (Poplar and Limehouse, Labour)

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I thank her for her intervention and I think she makes a powerful point. At the very least, there point. At the very least, there needs to be independent scrutiny of these assessments so that people can feel reassured that someone is can feel reassured that someone is checking whether whether they pass muster and, and it should be about the whole of building being made safe. I think the Secretary of State referred to that it cladding defects are an extremely important component, but there are internal fire defects that also need to be assessed, that have contributed to, to, to costs rising.

So I do I do welcome the remediation backstop in this bill that will give Homes England and local authorities the power to step in. But but in my view, that should not only be a tool of last resort, it should be something that gets the system moving as quickly as possible. And that's because we've seen how leaseholders in particular, have ended up shouldering the burden in recent years. Just to give one example, others have already spoken about leaseholders that they represent in Earls Court in Kensington and Chelsea. At Shaftesbury Place, residents approached me in 2024 after receiving huge increases in service charges, driven by a disputed fire risk assessment that led to a massive spike in insurance premiums from £15,000 a year for the building to £310,000 for the building.

The following year it went to £375,000. So for one leaseholder, their annual bill for the insurance went from £269 a year to £4,146 a year. The landlord, in this case Notting Hill Genesis, with a shared ownership scheme, told leaseholders that the insurance rise was linked to a fire risk assessment that they had commissioned, but residents disputed this fire risk assessment. Alongside the classification of the building as high rise. In fact, they had even miscalculated the number of stories in the building when they did the assessment, which obviously undermined confidence in that assessment. And the building safety regulator later agreed and removed the building from the high rise register, and several residents until recently were still receiving legal threats on the non-payment of these charges, causing them huge worry and anxiety, let alone their concerns about the value of their investment in the shared ownership scheme.

17:03

Fleur Anderson MP (Putney, Labour)

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I, I thank my friend very generous on this, but the insurance issue is a really big concern. It's something that the Treasury Select Committee is looking into. Doesn't he agree that there is a problem with the industry, that that the premiums have gone up exponentially, given that although there is an increased risk, the actual risk of that crystallising is not as high as hasn't been proved to have been as high as the insurance industry. And I wondered if he had any further thoughts on that. Yes.

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I my experience from this case corroborates what she's saying. I met with the Association of British Insurers and the scheme that they introduced did subsequently kick in and has in the last year brought down the building insurance, but, but only by about half, certainly not to anywhere near what it used not to anywhere near what it used to be. And I hope, you know, insurance will be something that that Ministers can look at when when thinking about protecting when thinking about protecting leaseholders from those costs. And I should say there is a the end of this story on on this building is that Notting Hill Genesis have agreed finally to reimburse all the residents after pressure from from my from me and my team and organisers in the building to repay the difference in the increase for the past several years, and I just want to thank Thomas, Hamid, Ian and all the other residents in that building for their work.

But this is just one example of what's happening in building after building across the country. So I welcome the bill in the sense that it's an opportunity to fix some of these flaws left by the previous government and create a better system, including through the register. This consistent approach to looking at external walls in terms of fire risk assessment and and listening to campaigners like End Our Cladding Scandal and the campaigners across the country who have helped to give a voice to those most affected. And I now have the the ear of the Secretary of State and Ministers as this as this bill continues, and clearly one element at the heart of the bill is who should pay.

And I agree it is high time that the construction product manufacturers who contributed to solve to causing this crisis should pay into resolving it. I really welcome part five of the bill to strengthen and extend provisions in the Building Safety Act on retrospective liability for cladding products, and the Secretary of State's announcement today on on their intention to go further, the Grenfell inquiry found that companies including Arconic, Kingspan and Celotex engaged in systematic dishonesty and deliberate manipulation of testing that misled buyers into thinking their products were safe. It is extraordinary that aside from their payments into a civil settlement, these companies have not paid into resolving a crisis of their making.

In Arconic's case, their civil settlement was overwhelmingly covered by their own insurance and was dwarfed by the payment they made to their own shareholders in compensation. It is clearly not right that leaseholders, taxpayers and even the developer levy should shoulder the bulk of the costs. While companies like Arconic do not. And this is yet another reason, in my view, that they should be nowhere near public contracts and supply chains, especially while criminal investigations are ongoing. I know the Secretary of State is committed to working across government to use every procurement power the government has to ensure that is not happening, and I will fully support her in that goal.

I also look forward to the new system of construction products regulation being implemented with consistent safety standards. A single regulator under the building safety regulator, I think will also make a big difference. I'm also glad that the protection of costs for leaseholders has been discussed in this bill and in the debate. So far, they are not responsible for this crisis, yet they are the ones picking up the bill in far too many cases. I also hope these new powers will give local remediation efforts, like the London Joint Remediation Partnership Board, an extra tool to do the building by building analysis that cuts through the bureaucracy and delays to find a solution.

And I should say, on behalf of the communities who have enfranchised their buildings or exercise right to manage, I'm sure that you are really pleased to hear the announcement today on ensuring that they are protected. We want more leaseholders to take control of their buildings and appoint their own agents and run their own affairs. And we'll see more, of course, in the leasehold Bill coming soon. And it's right that this bill should provide some consistency in protecting them, too. Madam Deputy Speaker, the building safety crisis has become one of the defining symbols of state failure in the past decade.

The entirely avoidable tragedy of Grenfell and the loss of 72 lives should have been a catalyst to make buildings safe as quickly as possible and recover the costs later. And of course, if we had listened to the coroner after the Lakanal House fire in 2009, it may not only have been possible to prevent the Grenfell fire, but it could have put a halt to new build flats across the country being constructed with cladding that was putting lives at risk. Judge Francis Kirkham said. Then that approved document B of the building regulations concerning external fire spread, fire resistant properties and cladding panels should be reviewed.

That simply did not happen in the way it should have done, as the public inquiry found, that missed opportunity is devastating for the Grenfell families, but also for everyone who bought a flat across the country in a building that could have been built or refurbished differently if that recommendation had been implemented. And think of the

17:15

Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )

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billions of pounds wasted that could have been invested in building more homes, including social and affordable homes. That social and affordable homes. That is why I will continue to campaign for a national oversight mechanism to make sure that there is to make sure that there is independent scrutiny of recommendations, of inquests and inquiries, so that change actually inquiries, so that change actually happens. And I'm delighted that the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State and the Minister are supportive of this effort, and I supportive of this effort, and I hope we can now make rapid progress towards setting it up.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the Prime Minister said something on Monday at the homelessness summit that really resonated with me. Names, not numbers. He was talking about how to best support people off the streets. We need a similar approach to this crisis. Behind every statistic is a family who is stuck, who cannot sell their home, is worried about the value of their main asset, who have had to take on another job chasing answers for when the work will be finished, all while they suffer the anxiety of living in an unsafe building. I hope today marks a shift in approach under a government I know is absolutely committed to doing all it can to end this scandal once and for all.

The new tools in this bill will certainly help, and the ones announced at the despatch box today will help even further. And with the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State and the ministerial team providing the leadership that this crisis needs, I am sure we can right the wrongs of the previous approach and deliver the solutions that so many

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people across the country are crying out for, a. Liberal Democrat spokesperson

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Gideon Amos. Madam Deputy Speaker, as we remember, the 72 victims, or remember, the 72 victims, or Grenfell and the many who are still waiting for justice, I know the Secretary of State shares. I'm sure Secretary of State shares. I'm sure this whole House, across all benches share the same commitment as safe as their residents have a right to expect them to be. Liberal Democrats remain committed to getting the removal of unsafe

17:20

Kevin Bonavia MP (Stevenage, Labour)

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cladding urgently and by a statutory deadline, to getting remediation to the right safety standards. The one building standards. The one building regulations were updated to post Grenfell and residents not having to pay a penny towards fixing a to pay a penny towards fixing a crisis not of their own making. Oh look, we will look at the amendments that have been just outlined and we'll look forward to them coming forward and study them. But sadly, Madam Deputy Speaker, as the bill stands at the moment, it does none of those things. And because of that, it is substandard and it needs radical improvement.

On the plus side, let me be clear about the positive aspects of the bill, which we do support. We support the legal duty for responsible entities to remediate, including the important extension of the duty in relation to buildings over 11m, 11 to 18m in height. We support the stronger intervention powers against the blockers that for housing authorities and regulator, such as through mitigation management orders we support, make it easier to bring claims against cladding manufacturers and we support requirements to have fire risk assessments for external walls and associated registers. So for those reasons, we're not going as far and we have not gone as far as tabling a fatal amendment in this debate, despite the very serious flaws as we see it, it would be wrong to deny any of those leaseholders and residents who, without this bill, would get less help.

But I do call on the government to consider seriously the degree to which this bill is lacking. Well, I don't doubt the sincerity of the Secretary of State all this bill. Government needs to think harder and bring forward amendments that are urgently needed to strengthen this bill. And in the stage that follows Second Reading, we will be suggesting proposing changes and working with the government as constructively as we can to get the improvements we believe are necessary. So where Madam Deputy Speaker does this bill fall short? First and foremost, enshrines into law the discredited publicly available specification 9980 approach, which has 9980, which, as shown in clause 44, will allow cladding of, and I quote, tolerable risk of combustion to remain on homes after they have been remediated.

You would expect tolerable risk to be no more than the level of risk allowed in new buildings under the building regulations, as tightened up after Grenfell, as the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch has already alluded to. It's not that standard in this bill. Remediation will only be to a standard that a fire risk assessor decides is tolerable. We're talking Madam Deputy Speaker about fire risk assessors, paid by building owners, who are more likely than not to have commercial interest in doing as few words as possible to their building. Well, I'm sure that most assessors are reliable professionals.

When the Grenfell inquiry report, chaired by Judge Sir Martin Moore-bick, cited, and I quote, commercial interests in this area of work as one of the contributory factors to the fire is retaining commercial interest in the system of fire risk assessment and assessors and building inspectors. One worth taking. Of course I give way.

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Giving way. I think we have common cause in this respect, and I rely a lot on the expertise of my rely a lot on the expertise of my constituents in this matter. But this, the past 9980 is not something that is also reassuring something that is also reassuring for insurers or there's a big problem with insurance anyway. But past 1980 does not solve this past 1980 does not solve this because it does not give them the certainty they need to do the risk assessment. I'm not here as an apologist for the insurance apologist for the insurance industry.

Certainly there are very many issues there which we will be taking up with them, but this is not the answer. I wonder, with his level of deep expertise in this matter, before he came to this place, what he would propose instead, or if there is an amendment to the bill that we indeed, hopefully the government could coalesce around if we can

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reach agreement. The hon. Member is very kind,

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The hon. Member is very kind, and my experience is, I'm sure, as great as many others in this House, but I'm coming on to what we believe would be the preferable standard. And certainly our standard. And certainly our approach is that that these these issues of commercial interest should be expunged from the bill, but also the tolerability approach should be removed. And we believe existing. Can I just make in a moment existing homes and buildings should be remediated to meet the standard of fire safety required in the new building regulations updated in 2018 after Grenfell and I give way to my friend.

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I'm grateful to my friend for giving way. But I think this also, although this bill is specifically around remediation of cladding, this does go further. Building control was typically undertaken, or at least instructed by the local or at least instructed by the local planning authority, and is now instructed and employed by the developers and my constituents, Trish and Ray. When they moved into Trish and Ray. When they moved into their new building, Wimbledon found that the structural issues in their properties just hadn't been

17:30

Jessica Toale MP (Bournemouth West, Labour)

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properties just hadn't been independently signed off. They now find that no one has access to the structural drawings of their building other than the inspector. So when they have problems with their roof, the council had no details. They could not access details and they can't check compliance. So does he agree that for the protection of residents, an ethical wall needs to be created between developers and inspectors, with proper enforcement and mandatory housing, building housing

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Ombudsman membership by developers. And certainly for my hon. Friend's plea there and I will be coming on to the issues of independence of building inspectors, which are very important. But going which are very important. But going back to the standard, that remediation should meet, the building regulations are the standard that government has set standard that government has set that is needed for newly built homes to be safe. So the same standard really therefore has to standard really therefore has to apply to homes. People are already living in high rise apartments I visited in London and elsewhere.

I've seen covered in scaffolding being remediated under the developer scheme, but many of them are being left with so much cladding, breaching building regulations, fire safety standards that residents cannot get insurance. And it is the insurance that really gives the game away. If it was really safe, why would the insurance premiums be so high? We have increases in insurance costs of 56% and higher, and for that reason, many owners cannot sell. They cannot get a new mortgage, and they sink into negative equity into mortgage prisoners in their own general.

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I think the members make a very important point here. Does he not agree that the high insurance costs agree that the high insurance costs are in no way caused by any action taken by the residents who are now taken by the residents who are now forced to pay it? And really, in all honesty, they deserve absolutely.

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absolutely. And the right hon. Gentleman almost read. I don't know how he did from over there. The next line did from over there. The next line in my speech that leaseholders and residents like that should not have to pay a penny due to the defects that were not their fault. Thousands of pounds in extra insurance are being paid by completely innocent homeowners to compensate for for safety standard, which, well, of course better than nothing, quite frankly, isn't the standard it should be. And that's after the remediation to the standard in this bill has been carried out, meeting the established building regulation standard would perhaps cost more.

But why should residents be condemned to live right now in buildings remediated to a lesser standard than the one we consider safe for new homes and Madam Deputy Speaker? The profit motive also needs to be expunged from building inspector services generally, which this bill also fails to do. So we need to remove these commercial interests from building inspectors and fire risk assessors by placing them all under publicly controlled, non profit making authority. And there is still no statutory certification requirement of what makes a competent person to be a fire risk assessor. Can I ask the Minister, when will those measures be brought forward as been promised in previous legislation?

Madam Deputy Speaker the second big omission of this bill is that it provides no more funding for those in buildings under 11m in height. Now the funding window is closed, while medium rise buildings come more into more firmly into scope, which is, of course, welcome. Why should any residents be forced to pay to put right bad practice, which was not their fault? Leaseholders in Taunton, Wellington and across the country are already paying too high and ground rent too high ground rents to absentee landlords for nothing in return, as leasehold seems to, as abolishing residential leasehold seems to receive further and further into the future.

The Bill also fails to give residents the right to see their buildings fire risk assessment, and it fails to give local authorities the resources to deliver the new enforcement duties, and the bill fails to commit government to making manufacturers of unsafe products that cause a fire pay, leaving the onus on others to pursue them through slow and costly court action. In these ways. Madam Deputy Speaker, it's our position that the Bill fails to fully implement the Grenfell Tower recommendations. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is no deadline in the Bill by which all the defects revealed by Grenfell across the Tall Buildings estate will be put right Madam Deputy Speaker the fire safety of people's homes needs to meet the standard we require for new homes.

Existing residents are no less worthy of that than we than will be the residents of future homes who will benefit from that building regulation standard, the commercial interest that ran rife in building safety inspections and lead up to Grenfell, need to be rooted out once and for all, and residents and leaseholders must not be expected to pay a penny towards repairing a crisis they are completely innocent of. Make homes fully safe under the building regulations revised for that purpose. Make oversight and inspection independent, not profit dependent. Hold developers and manufacturers to account for by pursuing them for the costs.

Protect leaseholders, including in buildings under 11m, and put residents at the heart of remediation so they can see the essence of their homes and give them a real statutory deadline. That's the bill the House needs to see today. That's the bill we will work hard to shape in the remaining stages of this bill.

17:35

Katie Lam MP (Weald of Kent, Conservative)

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Jack Abbott thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the Secretary of State for the intent she has shown in the bill today? Can I say also what a privilege it is to be sat next to my hon. Friend the Member of Parliament for Kensington and Bayswater. I know his mission in this place to fight for the justice of so many of his constituents that have been left alone for so long. Far too many lives across the country have been ruined by the building safety crisis. And in Ipswich, we have hundreds of residents who have endured years of fear, uncertainty and immense financial hardship.

People who did everything right, they worked hard, they saved for a deposit, and they brought somewhere to call home, but only to discover that that home was safe. The Grenfell Tower tragedy when 72 people lost their lives, each as my hon. Friend said, entirely avoidable. Since that day, leaseholders have been left in limbo across the country and what should have been a catalyst for change instead became a straightjacket for so many people living in our country. People not knowing if they're safe, not knowing if they'll lose their home, not knowing if they'll be forced to pay tens of thousands of pounds to put the right failures that they did nothing to cause.

And I've spoken to plenty of residents in my constituency of Ipswich about their experiences and their stories. Like so many, I'm sure we will hear this afternoon, are devastating. They cannot sell their home. They cannot move. They cannot move on with their lives. Their entire financial future is at stake. But so too is their mental health, their peace of mind. Some have considered bankruptcy just to get out. Others have thought about handing back the keys and simply walking away, and that anyone should reach this point through absolutely no fault of their own is truly heartbreaking.

And I want to kind of highlight a few of the buildings we have been facing issues with for many, many years in Ipswich. And I want to begin with Saint Francis Tower remediation work on this building started in 2018, and residents spent years living under shrink wrap. Remediation work dragged on. My hon. Friend the Minister for housing, in fact, visited as well in a previous life when I was a candidate and he then a shadow Minister, you couldn't see out of the shrink wrap. You couldn't see natural daylight. Even when that was replaced, the work dragged on and on.

And in July 2023, flooding forced those poor people from their homes. After years of misery, years of disruption, followed by the trauma of evacuation. My team and I worked with the residents and the government to secure funding for repairs in November 2024, and this was an important step forward, which replaced the outer cladding. But still the internals are damaged. Still, three years on, people have not yet been able to return to their homes, and although I'm hopeful of good news in the coming weeks, it is likely that these same people, even if remediation work was able to start in the coming weeks before Christmas, it's unlikely they'll be able to return to their homes until spring of 2028.

A decade since work first started on this building, residents should never have been put in that position. Nobody should have had to fight for something as a basic home, but these people can't even live in it. Our church must house investigations revealed problems extending beyond external cladding, missing fire barriers, inadequate protection around structural steel work. Leaseholders faced high demands for eye watering payments and the threat that they might have to leave their homes. The original developer was insolvent. People have done nothing wrong. We're left facing the consequences. This is a story we hear over and over again on the good news.

Our government confirmed funding for the necessary work to make the building safe, but not before months and years of worry. Unfortunately for residents in Carla Denyer Lofts, they were not so lucky. I cannot believe that a building where if a fire broke out, would have ripped through that entire building because the lack of compartmentalisation was ever deemed fit for habitation, people unknowingly slept in their beds every single night for decades, some of them without knowing how deeply unsafe this building is, how much it posed a threat to their lives. People never return to Cardinal. That building is not fit for use.

So these are different buildings, all with different owners, but the same injustice, injustice shared by so many people in Ipswich and across the country. And I can name so many buildings as well in our town who have been subject to the same stories. People have bought these homes in good faith, but they sold something faulty, and they should never have been left with the costs of putting things right. And that is why this bill is so important. But for the first time, those responsible will face clear legal duty to identify and remediate unsafe cladding in residential buildings, building owners and others with repairing responsibilities must act.

That means an end to indefinite delays as residents live with fear and financial uncertainty, trapped in unsafe buildings and, crucially, those who ignore their responsibilities can face substantial financial penalties, criminal prosecution and further enforcement action responsibilities that can be enforced, consequences for those who ignore them. And I also just want to highlight the remediation backstop, as I think is particularly important, where building owners fail to act, Homes England and local authorities will be able to step in, arrange repairs and recover costs from those responsible. So for people trapped in the middle of endless arguments over who should do the work, that matters enormously, I also welcome measures to secure contributions from manufacturers whose unsafe construction products contributed to this crisis.

We were elected to accelerate remediation and better protect leaseholders, and this bill is an important step forward in delivering that promise. It builds on the Remediation Acceleration Plan, which I know is already helping thousands of people across the country now live in safer homes. So alongside this bill, the government has also announced plans to extend leasehold protections and support necessary fire safety works and eligible buildings owned collectively by residents. I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank the Ipswich Gladiators and the many, many residents across our town who have campaigned so tirelessly for change, not just for themselves, but their neighbours, their communities and for people across the country.

But they should never, ever have had to fight this hard. And we can't give them back the years they've all lost. But we can maintain a relentless focus on making their homes safe, protecting them from unfair costs and helping them move forward. And that is what they deserve. And that with this

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bill, is what the government is doing to. Will Forster. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Before speaking about the Building Safety Bill and the wider issues in the construction industry, I just the construction industry, I just want to say my thoughts and prayers are with the loved ones. Of the 72 people that lost their lives in the people that lost their lives in the Grenfell fire earlier today, the Housing, Communities and Local Housing, Communities and Local Government Select Committee were doing a review on fire and rescue services and unsurprisingly, building safety and Grenfell were covered.

Now, I appreciate this bill focuses on buildings, construction practices and other issues and not really on fire services, but I was surprised to hear earlier today from his from the Head of Inspectorate for Fire

17:38

Florence Eshalomi MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green, Labour )

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17:53

Remaining Orders of the Day

her department, for whom I know that the neutron tower fire is being taken extremely seriously. Indeed, many constituents of mine who fall into the category of who fall into the category of having a non external cladding risks and internal defects in their homes, or are non-qualifying homes, or are non-qualifying leaseholders will be looking closely at this bill as it progresses through the House, and will be pleased to have heard the Secretary of State's announcement today that these areas will be explored as the bill progresses. Indeed. I also pay tribute to the End Our Cladding Scandal campaign group, who have been campaigning on these fronts for a very long time.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have also been contacted by unpaid resident directors of Right to manage companies locally who are worried about the new liabilities they may they might face regarding defects they did not cause without any new funding or support to meet these duties. There is then the bigger picture about the behaviours and the dispute practices, which have allowed remediation processes to drag on for completely unacceptable lengths of time for so many buildings. I am disappointed that the new powers to be placed on responsible entities will exclude those developers who are part of the developer remediation contract, because those developers who are under the DRC itself are able to delay remediation or drag their heels and avoid financial responsibilities.

I understand that the government's position is that, you know, there are enough existing mechanisms under the DRC which mean that the backstop powers being presented in the bill do not need to be expanded any further. But the point is that this is just not working in practice. Many residents are alarmed that they are not seeing greater accountability for those ultimately responsible, and that's what it comes down to. Madam Deputy Speaker, Ultimately, it comes down to the question of ambition. There is no denying the complexities at play in this decade long ordeal, and I'm glad that some of the glaring gaps in the bill are already being addressed to finally legislate and fix, fix issues that we have been talking about and debating for so, so long.

The question for many of my constituents, including Gower Nutrient Tower, Madam Deputy Speaker, is when will the remaining gaps be addressed? And most importantly, how long before they will finally have safe homes? Like many members in this House, I'll be following the bill as it progresses through the House very closely and looking at opportunities and ways in which it can be strengthened even further, because we cannot delay taking action any longer.

17:53

Division

18:08

Petitions

18:10

Adjournment: Coordination of services for children in care across local authorities

a fantastic job and I know in his role around early education, which is also an area of interest for me. He will be a steadfast champion and

18:11

Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)

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a fantastic member of this government, so I really welcome him. I first applied for this debate Madam Deputy Speaker after a Madam Deputy Speaker after a conversation I had at the West Chadsmoor NHS clinic back in June. I'd gone there to talk to the team I'd gone there to talk to the team about the fantastic pride in place funding that's going to be coming to our area, and to meet some of the brilliant clinicians based the brilliant clinicians based there who specialise in areas like children and adolescent mental health services, paediatric health services, paediatric podiatry, occupational health and various forms of family support.

As I'm sure members across the House will have experienced, I often leave a visit in my constituency with much more work than I walked in with, but that is, of course, what I was elected to do, and it's a pleasure to do that work. One of the conversations that I had at West Chadsmoor raised an issue that I felt needed to be brought to this House. It was about vulnerable children being placed in Staffordshire by local authorities elsewhere in the country, and the problems that arise when the right people aren't told that those children are coming.

I heard from clinicians that increasingly they are coming across young people who've been placed in our area without Staffordshire County Council having been notified and sadly, some staff sometimes encountering those children for the first time when they are in a serious mental health crisis. The doctors I spoke to described young people who might be self-harming or experiencing suicidal thoughts. These are children who will almost certainly have experienced deep trauma, family breakdown and considerable instability. Then they are moved, sometimes hundreds of miles from home, and the support they hopefully had been receiving previously doesn't always follow them.

The statutory requirement is for the responsible local authority to notify the host local authority when a child or young person in care is placed within its area. But I'm hearing that this doesn't always happen and doesn't always include the relevant information regarding identified risks and support needs. There should also be, I feel, some kind of consideration to the suitability of a placement, like the availability of local services in the area. When a local authority decides to place a child to another part of the country, that child arrives with their own history, their own vulnerabilities, and often an established package of support.

Yet the authority responsible for receiving them may not even know that they are there. The clinicians who want to do their best to replicate that support are sometimes left on the back foot. They may only discover the child when something has gone wrong, and they come to them in a very bad way. That's not a sensible way to organise care for any child, let alone one who is already vulnerable. Which is why, of course, the legal duty to inform exists in my constituency. We have seen rapid growth in the independent children's homes in recent years, partly because of relatively low property prices, but also, as we know, a chronic lack of foster carers.

And as a former foster carer myself, I very much welcome the recruitment campaign that the department launched last week. Absolutely happy to give way to them, gentlemen.

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Jim Shannon Madam Deputy Speaker. First of all, can I commend the hon. Gentleman for Cannock Chase for bringing this forward? He for bringing this forward? He always brings a incredibly important debates to Westminster Hall, to the chamber and to the adjournment debate, and I adjournment debate, and I congratulate him on the stand he takes in, the contribution he makes in this House as well on behalf of his constituents. It's really his constituents. It's really appreciated. He mentioned fostering the fostering network found only 33% of foster carers report their 33% of foster carers report their allowance is fully cover the cost of raising a child.

Approximately 66% of people believe that they could be a good foster carer if there were no practical barriers. So during this cost of living crisis, does the hon. Gentleman agree that we must recognise these additional pressures and more must be done to financially support those who have a heart for fostering children? To both take this on, and also to be equipped to do so.

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Well, I thank the hon. Gentleman for for contributing to this debate and for his kind words. He always has a kind word to say, and I think has a kind word to say, and I think always has a very valuable contribution to make to any debate on any topic, which is quite impressive. And on this case, he is absolutely right to highlight that there are so many people in our country who would love to foster, country who would love to foster, who have the attributes to be able to do so. The motivation, but simply can't couldn't afford to be simply can't couldn't afford to be able to do so, because the costs that they would have to meet exceed the payment that they might get.

And I think we need to raise awareness of the fact that fostering is paid for. A lot of people don't realise that, but I

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Absolutely think that we need to bring those stories, as he's rightly done, to this House, to highlight that we need to do far highlight that we need to do far more to support our foster carers. They do an incredible amount. We know that. Absolutely, yes.

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know that. Absolutely, yes. With regards to foster carers, I have constituents who are foster parents of children with extremely parents of children with extremely complex needs. It is a laudable but very challenging vocation. However, placements often fail because the placements often fail because the foster parents do not get the wraparound support and indeed respite that they need. And such breakdowns can be even more challenging if the children are from out of area and then end up getting moved again. So does he agree with me that it should be that all councils must provide the correct support and respite for

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such of our for our foster parents? Josh Newbury thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I absolutely agree Deputy Speaker. I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. She also speaks from a real place of deep personal knowledge on this topic, personal knowledge on this topic, and she is absolutely right to highlight the experience of foster carers in her constituency, who all carers in her constituency, who all too often feel that the book always stops with them and there is never any let up. And sometimes it can be an incredibly challenging role. You an incredibly challenging role. You know, we're talking about some of the most vulnerable children in our society who often have incredibly complex needs.

That presents itself in many different ways, and I think it's the responsibility of our society as a whole to make sure they're well cared for. But that also extends to our foster carers because they are doing such an incredible role, and we need to make sure that they have the support. And as my right hon. Friend said, the wraparound care that's absolutely needed to be able to succeed in that role. I feel that my my husband and I had that when we were fostering. We were very fortunate to have that support from our county council, and I hope that that is available to everybody.

And that's certainly what we need to ensure. So Staffordshire is increasingly welcoming children placed in our county by local authorities elsewhere in the country, and I'm very glad that our county is able to play that role in caring for vulnerable young people. The figures for Cannock Chase give us a sense of how that picture is changing. In 2020 five, 26, five children's homes opened and two closed, with a net increase of seven places. The county council told one of the councillors in my constituency that there are 19 homes for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties and seven for children with learning difficulties.

Because of the high level of D homes in my area, the county council are even taking this step despite the shortages we're all aware of, of asking potential providers not to set up new homes in my constituency for the time being. And as more homes open, our local services clearly have a growing role in supporting children whose previous care arrangements may have been organised hundreds of miles away. I'm proud that Staffordshire can provide care for those children, but I want to ensure that the local services placing them here are giving our services the information they need early enough to plan properly.

So my point is not that Staffordshire should do less to support these children. It is that if we're going to provide that care, we must have the communication and coordination needed to do it as well as possible. These children deserve more than a placement address. They deserve a joined up package of care that follows them wherever they move. The doctors I spoke to explained that when Staffordshire County Council receives the appropriate notification, Camhs has a chance to contact the young person's previous NHS trust, establish what support they have been receiving and work out how that support can be continued locally.

That's the difference between planning for a child's needs and reacting when those needs escalate. Without notification, that opportunity is taken away. The receiving services may not know about the child, they may not have their clinical history. They may not understand what treatment or support has been interrupted. What it means for GPS is they also may not know that a young person has entered their area. Diagnoses, risks and existing care plans may not accompany that placement. Responsibility for GP registration, crisis support and ongoing care may remain unclear. Services might respond without essential clinical and contextual information.

Young people may experience avoidable crisis and emergency department attendances and inpatient stays are all too common as well. Fragmented arrangements can undermine safeguarding and continuity of care. Commissioning of provision is carried out by local authorities, of course, but if they aren't aware of what's been commissioned from the home, their home area, which can often include a comprehensive health package to sustain the placement, it's not hard to see where things go wrong. Local services can, in some cases end up duplicating already commissioned input, leading to provision being double funded. That complexity is compounded where multiple providers operate within one geographic area.

Within Staffordshire and Stoke on Trent, there are multiple Camhs providers alongside specialist children and care health teams hosted by different organisations. Acute hospitals attended by young people might be managed by separate provider trusts, many of which don't have access to community health records that are held elsewhere. These organisational boundaries can create barriers to timely information sharing and coordinated care. And similarly, when children move between multiple out-of-area placements, information can become fragmented across different systems, and accessing records held by external providers might not even be possible. The issue is particularly relevant to my constituency and the wider Staffordshire area, where, as I mentioned earlier, we've seen an increase in the number of children's homes in recent years.

As that number grows, we need to be confident that the right safeguards, oversight and support are keeping pace. A children's home is not simply a property with staff in it. It's a place where some of our most vulnerable children should receive the care, stability and specialist support that they really need. To give a tragic example of how badly things can go wrong, I will share one story from Cannock Chase. Last summer I had a constituent in Hednesford, raised concerns with me about the care being provided to a vulnerable young person in an independent children's home, very close to where he lived.

This young person clearly had had a incredibly traumatic experience at a very young age and very complex needs. The placement was intensive to the point where the home accepted just one child at a time, supported by several staff 24 over seven. However, the company responsible for that home clearly had no intention of following through on the promise to support package, which was not put in place. I heard that Camhs weren't even contacted, despite the company having put in their bid that the local council services in my area are good and deal very well with looked after children, and that they'd already made preliminary enquiries with them and the promised two on 1 or 3 on one support was not followed through either, to the point where this young person was at one point left alone and was found by neighbours banging on doors, clearly in extreme distress and mental health crisis.

Now, I can't independently verify every detail of that story, and I don't want to prejudge any investigation that might take place. And I've also visited excellent homes in my constituency, run by people who care deeply about providing the highest quality, trauma informed care. And I believe that they are in the majority. But these concerns underline why we need effective oversight and clear accountability for the care being provided. But this isn't a narrow issue affecting only children in residential care or those in Staffordshire alone. It speaks to a wider challenge in how we coordinate support across local authority boundaries.

Figures that I've seen show that in 2024, 45% of looked after children were placed outside their home local authority, up from 40% in 2015. And whilst 69% were placed within 20 miles of home, that proportion has fallen from 76%. Also in 2015. The same challenges can affect kinship families to kinship. 2024 annual survey found that nearly a third of kinship families lived in a different local authority area from the one that the child had lived in before coming into their care. Of those families, 57% reported difficulties in accessing support as a result. These are different circumstances, but they point to the same question in my mind when a child's life crosses a local authority boundary, does the support they need follow them?

Whether a child is living in a children's home or being cared for by a grandparent, aunt or uncle, or another family member, we must not allow administrative boundaries to become barriers to accessing the right support. And this leaves me with four questions this evening for the Minister who is standing in, as I said, for the hon. Member for Workington and Whitehaven, who I know is doing a lot of work in this area. First, what steps is the government taking to ensure that local authorities meet their existing statutory duty to notify receiving authorities when placing children out of area, and to identify where that duty is not being met.

Secondly, how is the government working with health partners to improve the sharing of information when a child moves so that their clinical history, existing treatment and crisis support arrangements can follow them and the services can then plan ahead? Thirdly, how will the government ensure that its regulatory and inspection framework provides effective oversight of children's homes, so that the care and supervision children are promised is the care that they actually receive? And finally, as the government expands placement capacity and rolls out regional care cooperatives, a very welcome development in my mind. How will it ensure that these reforms improve not just the availability of placements, but also the coordination between local authorities, children's homes and health services?

I began, Madam Deputy Speaker, by talking about the clinicians at West Chadsmoor NHS clinic, and I want to end by returning to them. They see children who have already faced more disruption to their young lives than most of us can even imagine. They want to give those children the stability, understanding and care that they deserve. The least we should expect of the system that supports them is to give those professionals the information and cooperation that they need to be able to do that. A child shouldn't have to experience a crisis before the services around them realise that support has fallen away.

A family shouldn't have to become an expert in local government responsibilities before it can access help, and a local authority boundary should never become a barrier to a child's well-being. I recognise that the government is taking steps to address the shortage of placements. The £560 million investment in children's homes and foster care, alongside that rollout of regional care cooperatives, is intended to help create more suitable places closer to where children live. That matters because the best way to manage the challenges of out-of-area placements is wherever possible, to avoid placing children so far away in the first place.

And when they do need to move, we must make sure that their care and support move with them. I welcome the steps this government is taking to increase placement capacity, strengthen the system and improve how services work together. The investment in children's homes and foster care provides the opportunity for us to make sure more children can be cared for closer to home. My ask is that as this work progresses, we keep the experience of the child at the very centre of it. That means pushing local authorities to share information, health services, being able to plan ahead and clear accountability for making sure the support child needs is actually there.

Every child in care deserves stability, safety and the chance to thrive wherever they're placed. I look forward to working with the Minister to ensure that the government's reforms deliver those outcomes for children in country.

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Thank you. Minister Paul Waugh.

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Minister Paul Waugh. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to thank members for attending and contributing to the debate this evening. It is indeed a debate this evening. It is indeed a deeply important subject and I'm grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase for bringing this before us today. As has already been noted, he's a doughty champion for his constituents and is an excellent constituency MP. I had the privilege of knowing his Labour predecessor and Cannock Chase Sir Tony Wright, and he's more than living up to his example.

This government is clear that children

18:26

Paul Waugh MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Rochdale, Labour )

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in care should grow up safe, supported and able to thrive regardless of their background.

18:26

Josh Newbury MP (Cannock Chase, Labour)

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regardless of their background. Throw the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act 2026 and our Children's social Care reset. We're delivering

18:27

Paul Waugh MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Rochdale, Labour )

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social Care reset. We're delivering the biggest overhaul of children's social care and child protection in social care and child protection in a generation. We're now delivering the change that we promised. We're building a children's social care building a children's social care system that firstly puts families at the heart of our work. We know that keeping children within their immediate and wider family network. And as my hon. Friend already referenced, kinship care is really important in this. We know that that's key for improving outcomes. But secondly, we want a system that builds rather than breaks relationships, ensuring that every care experienced young person starts adulthood with loving, enduring relationships.

I'd like to address the questions that the Member for Cannock Chase put to me directly, if I may. On what steps the government is taking to ensure that local authorities meet their existing statutory duties when placing children out of area, and what happens when these duties aren't being met? Let me be clear if a local authority has to place a child outside their area, not notifying the local authority is a breach of the law. It is imperative that this happens that so that ongoing support can be arranged in the new area. We know that far too many children are currently placed out of their local area when they come into care, or a move during their time in care.

In 2025, 22% of children in care. That's 18,000 children live more than 20 miles from their home community. Sometimes this distance is for a good reason. Children might be moving to live with their wider family network, but too often children are placed far from home, which disrupts their relationships with family and friends, their education and their access to the services that support them. Where concerns arise that duties are not being met, as has been indicated by my hon. Friend, they should be escalated through local safeguarding arrangements with relevant partners working together to identify risks and coordinate action.

Furthermore, Ofsted takes account of whether local authorities are complying with this duty through its Ilex inspections, including whether place of the placing authority promptly notifies the receiving authority when a child moves into its area, and ensures that child can access services that meet their needs. The Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act 2026 strengthens this information sharing between agencies. While multi-agency safeguarding arrangements support safeguarding partners to identify risks, share intelligence and coordinate action for children placed outside their home area. Additionally, earlier this year, the department also wrote to local authorities as part of a wider communication, reminding them of their statutory duty to inform host local authorities when placing children out of area.

On his question regarding working with health partners, statutory guidance is clear that relevant services, including integrated care boards, should be notified before a child moves placement so that arrangements can be made to meet the needs. Where a move is made in an emergency, notification must follow within five working days. The guidance also recognises that identifying the right contacts can sometimes be difficult, and suggests practical steps, such as using generic inboxes to help ensure information reaches the right organisation. More broadly, though, the new information sharing duty strengthens the requirement on safeguarding partners, including health, to share relevant information where a child relocates so that important information about their safety and welfare is never lost.

Importantly, the absence of a formal data sharing agreement should not prevent information being shared where that duty applies. The DfE, the Health Department and the NHS are working closely together to improve health outcomes for looked after children and care leavers, including ensuring that information flows effectively between services and does not become a barrier to children receiving the support that they need. Now, our reforms to children's social care strengthen multi-agency working and information sharing, and the Home Again programme will bring social care, health, education and youth justice together around a single plan for children with the most complex needs.

Just last week we announced the new mental health pilot across Greater Manchester, embedding mental health professionals to children's social care teams. It's called Care Together. It replaces the fragmented provision that exists at the moment with faster access to expert needs. LED mental health support, including family therapy and support for parents and primary caregivers. I'm excited to see the impact that this £9.4 million pilot will have for 7000 children and their families across my constituency in Rochdale, and also our neighbours, Stockport and Tameside. On his question on how the government ensures that its regulatory and inspection framework provides effective oversight of children's homes.

My hon. Friend the Minister for Children and Families keeps the adequacy of the regulatory framework under regular review. In April 2026, Ofsted introduced updates to the Social Care Common Inspection Framework to promote high quality inspections for children's homes and other settings that focus on the impact of services on the lives and relationships of children and families is absolutely crucial. They've recently consulted on further improvements to their inspection framework for children's social care, and will be setting out plans in 2027 in due course.

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I'd gladly give way. I thank the Minister for giving way. It's good to hear that Ofsted way. It's good to hear that Ofsted is kind of adapting and the inspection regime to match the fact that many of these children's homes are opening, and the variation in practice seems to be quite large. And would he be able to ask the Minister for Children and Families Minister for Children and Families to look into whether Ofsted capacity is matching the growth in children's homes in certain parts of the country, like mine, where we're seeing quite, quite rapid growth in a short space of time, and whether the inspections that are being carried out are kind of matching that growth to make sure that we aren't kind of running away from ourselves in areas and perhaps seeing poorer practice where there just aren't as many inspectors as we need.

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My friend makes a very important point. I will certainly pass that on to the Minister for Children and Families. He's right that we need Families. He's right that we need to have the capacity to match the requirements that we're imposing. On his last point, on the impact of regional care cooperatives to improve sufficiency and coordination are really, really important point. We've got seven important point. We've got seven regional care cooperatives now that cover more than 100 local authorities, including his own Staffordshire through the West Midlands Partnership. I can confirm that the regional care cooperatives are not simply about increasing placement capacity.

Children in care can be involved in multiple services, as we've heard tonight across local authorities, health and justice so coordinated regional planning and partnership working is a core requirement of these new regional care cooperatives. By bringing these partners together to forecast need and commission care more strategically, regional care cooperatives will help to ensure provision and wider support are better joined up around children's needs. And my hon. Friend rightly, repeatedly made that point. We should be focusing on the child. It should be child centred, all the services around them. I also wanted to recognise the concerns about the distribution of children's homes across England, and these are very, very legitimate concerns that they're shared across party across this House, where some areas have a disproportionately high concentration of homes while others have insufficient provision.

We know that this can contribute to children being placed further away from the support networks, and can lead to poor outcomes. We also know this can be driven by a focus on maximising profits, with some providers attracted by lower property costs. We know that for sure. In the North and in the West Midlands. We're taking action to reshape the children's social care market and to improve placements efficiency. To combat this, through the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Act. We're rebalancing that market, increasing transparency and supporting local authorities to secure the placements that children need. We want the right homes in the right places, so children, whether it's in their best interest, are kept close to their communities.

Our aim is to support provisions where there's a clear need and the children's needs can be fully met. We're also putting in significant capital funding to deliver 540 new local authority owned children's homes placements by March 2029 across 75 local authorities. 200 of these will be specialist placements for children at risk of deprivation of liberty. 237 places are already completed, registered and operational. And if I may, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd like to touch on the importance of the work we're leading on reforms to fostering. As has been mentioned already by several members, to ensure as few children as possible actually need to enter care in the first place.

My friend for Stoke-on-Trent South rightly points out that respite support for foster parents should be there. It should be in place. And all too often it isn't. The hon. Member for Strangford, who is no longer in his place, rightly said we should be moving the practical barriers to fostering. I know my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase has personal all of the foster parents who do such a marvellous job, day in and day out, week in, week out, with some of the most vulnerable children in our society and we owe them a great deep debt of gratitude.

In March last year, 67% of all children looked after in England were living with foster families, but 46% of those children were placed out of their local area. This is why the government has launched the Fostering Action plan referenced by my hon. Friend and we're committed to create 10,000 more foster places this Parliament. This includes an England wide recruitment campaign, which hopefully members have already seen, which is challenging the myths that stop people from considering fostering and recruiting thousands more foster carers who can give children the loving, stable homes that they need and deserve.

The Fostering Action Plan is backed by £88 million of investment over two years. This includes funding for expanding dedicated regional foster carer recruitment hubs, supporting foster carers to adapt their homes in order to care for more children. Increasing numbers of Mockingbird peer support clusters, which I know are much valued across the country, and the launch of the Fostering Innovation programme to support better outcomes for children. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, we know that the best way to keep children safe and to give them the best possible start in life is to support families before problems reach crisis point.

Our Families First for children Pathfinders have tested this approach across ten local authorities, bringing together earlier, more intensive family help, expert multi-agency child protection and wider family networks to identify problems sooner and help children remain safely within their families, wherever that's in their best interests. We're now applying those lessons nationally through the Families First Partnership Programme, backed by £2.4 billion over the next three years, including £853 million in 2627. This represents a fundamental shift towards prevention, strengthening families and ensuring that where serious safeguarding concerns arise, children benefit from coordinated expertise across agencies. In conclusion, I'd like to thank again my hon.

Friend the Member for Cannock Chase for bringing this important matter to the House. I'll reiterate this government's aim that every child in care should receive the same joined up support, stability and opportunity that we'd want for our own children. We recognise that local and national government, health, education and every partner must work together around each child in our care. I know that my colleague, the Minister for Children and Families, who's done such marvellous work both inside and outside government on this area, will continue to push through the urgent, needed reforms. The system needs that we've debated today so that children are indeed safe, supported close to the people and places that matter them to the

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most and are able to thrive. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn as many as are of that opinion say aye. the ayes have

This debate has concluded

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