Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU
David Davis Excerpts(8 years, 1 month ago)
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Keir Starmer
I will make some progress if I may. I have only got to page 2, and I have taken about 10 interventions already. If Members will bear with me, I will press on.
On Monday, the Secretary of State confirmed that the Prime Minister will invoke article 50 no later than the end of March next year. Unless Parliament has a meaningful role in shaping the terms of Brexit between now and then—a maximum period of just five-and-a-half months—it will be too late. I can see what will happen. Once the negotiating process has started, there will be a claim by the Secretary of State that it would be inappropriate to put anything before the House by way of detail. Once the process is over, the risks of any debate will be purely academic.
The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Davis)
On a point of information, that is not correct. I have already said that it is not correct. In talking to the Lords Committee in September, I said that the House would have at least the information available to the European Parliament. What the hon. and learned Gentleman says is just not the case.
Keir Starmer
I am grateful for that intervention. I read the transcript of the Secretary of State’s evidence to that Select Committee. What was put to him was that, on one view, the European Parliament would have more answers than this Parliament. In 2010, as he knows, there was a framework agreement between the Commission and the European Parliament. It states:
“Parliament shall be immediately and fully informed at all stages of the negotiation and conclusion of international agreements, including the definition of negotiating directives.”
That goes a long way further than I understood the Secretary of State’s position to be on Monday, and in his first statement. I would be very pleased to hear from him if he can confirm now that at least that part of scrutiny is guaranteed.
Keir Starmer
Thank you.
This is a matter not just of process, but of real substance. Both those who voted to leave the EU and those who voted to remain recognise that different negotiating stances under article 50 could provide radically different outcomes, each of which carries very significant risks and opportunities. That is undoubtedly why there is a keen debate going on behind the scenes on the Government’s side. Everybody recognises the potential consequences of adopting the wrong opening stance.
Keir Starmer
I do agree with that, absolutely, and we will throw our weight behind it. In fairness, the Prime Minister signalled that by her early visits as soon as she assumed office. I was hesitant to answer that question in case I got relegated from second to third or even fourth-rate lawyer. I will press on—
Keir Starmer
I really do not think I can be criticised for not taking enough interventions.
Concerns over freedom of movement must be balanced by concerns over jobs, trade and the strength of our economy. Striking that balance and navigating our exit from the EU will not be an easy process, and it will require shrewd negotiating. The Government must not give up on the best possible deal for Britain before they have even begun. They must put the national interest first and not bow to pressure from Back Benchers for a hard Brexit. That means prioritising access to the single market, protecting workers’ rights, ensuring that common police and security measures are not weakened, and ensuring that all sectors of our economy are able to trade with our most important market. It also means bringing the British people together as we set about leaving the EU.
I touched on the tone of discussions on Monday. Many people are appalled at the language that has been used in relation to exiting the EU. An essential step in that process is to publish the basic plans for Brexit and to seek the confidence of the House of Commons. The motion is intended to ensure that scrutiny and accountability. I will listen, of course, to what the Secretary of State says about his amendment.
Mr David Davis
On a point of information, does the motion require the guarantee of a vote? Is he after a prior vote?
Keir Starmer
The motion before the House is clear about scrutiny, which is the first part. There is a question of a vote, and I will make it absolutely clear that I am pressing for a vote. This exercise will obviously go on for some time, and we will have plenty of skirmishes. I am anxious that, first, we have proper scrutiny and also a vote. What I do not want to do is jeopardise the scrutiny by a vote against the vote. Anyone on either side of the House who wants scrutiny can happily support the motion, and I will listen carefully to what the Secretary of State says about the amendment.
This is a serious challenge, and these are the most important decisions for a generation. The role of the House is a fundamentally important issue, and we have to ensure that it is compatible with scrutiny and accountability.
The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Davis)
Another day, another outing. [Interruption.] I knew they would like that.
Mr Speaker
For the avoidance of doubt—to be absolutely clear for the benefit of all Members, the Secretary of State will move the amendment.
Mr Davis
I beg to move amendment (b), at end add
‘; and believes that the process should be undertaken in such a way that respects the decision of the people of the UK when they voted to leave the EU on 23 June and does not undermine the negotiating position of the Government as negotiations are entered into which will take place after Article 50 has been triggered.’.
I am glad to hear that the Labour spokesman accepts that we must respect the decision of the people. That is important progress. Of course, it comes from somewhere, but where is not at all clear. I will come back to that in less than a minute. He went on to say that he did not want to see point scoring, and I rather agree: this issue is too important for point scoring.
The House should know that this morning I received a letter, signed by the shadow Secretary of State and his predecessor, which was extremely flattering about my history of standing up for the rights of Parliament and so on. It went on to pose 170 questions about our negotiating strategy. To give the House an idea of how much of a stunt that is, it is one question a day between now until the triggering of article 50. Worse still, some of the questions in that long list are requests pre-emptively to concede elements of our negotiating strategy.
Nadhim Zahawi
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way—the shadow Secretary of State would not give way—so I can now ask my question. I have listened carefully to the debate. The shadow Secretary of State talked about respecting the vote on 23 June, which made it clear that we are to leave the European Union. We cannot leave the EU without triggering article 50, when the negotiations will begin and the details that he wants to scrutinise will emerge. Should it not be the Government’s right to trigger article 50 as the instruction of the British people to go ahead, and then we begin the negotiation?
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend is exactly right. That is the premise on which we are advancing. That is not to say—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) waits a moment, I will give way. We will have proper scrutiny, and I will deal with that in a minute. We will not allow anyone to veto the decision of the British people—that is the point.
Toby Perkins
If it is really the case that article 50 is the start of the process and we begin scrutiny after that, why is it being triggered nine months after the vote? Surely that is because a huge amount of preparatory work is required, and that is what we want to scrutinise.
Alex Salmond
If there is no parliamentary assent for the negotiating position that the Secretary of State takes into the negotiations, how can there possibly be parliamentary assent for the result of the negotiations, unless he pulls off the remarkable trick of getting a better deal than he is asking for?
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)
As a long-standing Brexiteer not wishing to make points, may I take the Secretary of State back to the reasons the Government want to trigger article 50 so early? What is behind that, and is there any possibility that that statement might take on the colour of the Home Secretary’s statement about foreign workers?
Mr Davis
No, I do not think so. The right hon. Gentleman asks a serious question. Part of the reasoning is that the Prime Minister feels, quite reasonably, that the people want the process to be under way. Indeed, if one believes opinion polls, that is what is going on. However, we do not want to do it immediately, unlike the leader of the Labour party, who said on 24 June that we should trigger it immediately—of course, now he has changed his mind. What we are doing is putting together our negotiating strategy, which requires an enormous amount of work—I will come back to that point—and some of it will become public as we go along.
I am determined, as would be expected, that Parliament will be fully and properly engaged in the discussion on how we make a success of Brexit. I therefore broadly welcome the motion, but with important caveats, and that is why the Government’s amendment is necessary. The first key point is that we must ensure that the decision that the people made on 23 June is fully respected. We also need to be explicit that, while we welcome parliamentary scrutiny, it must not be used as a vehicle to undermine the Government’s negotiating position or thwart the process of exit—both are important.
The negotiation will be complex and difficult, and we should do nothing to jeopardise it. As I said in my statement on Monday—the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) quoted me several times—the sovereignty of Parliament and its restoration is at the very heart of why the UK is withdrawing from the European Union. For decades, the primacy of the UK Parliament has been superseded by decisions made within EU institutions, but now, following the clear instruction of the voters in the referendum on 23 June, we can finally change that and put Parliament unequivocally in charge.
That is exactly why we announced plans for a great repeal Bill last week; it is a clear commitment to end the primacy of EU law. It will return sovereignty to the institutions of the United Kingdom, because that is what the referendum result was all about: taking control. Naturally, Parliament will oversee the passage of the Bill, which will allow us to ensure that our statute book is fit for purpose on the day we leave the EU. It will then be for Parliament alone to determine what changes to the law best suit the national interest.
Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
I have long heard the right hon. Gentleman voice his support for parliamentary scrutiny. Will he therefore bring forward a vote in Parliament on the Government’s opening position and the terms that they will present for negotiation to the European Union?
Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)
I find this argument that Parliament somehow wants to thwart the will of the people a complete straw man. As has already been pointed out, seven out of 10 Labour MPs represent constituencies where a majority of people voted to leave. As a democrat, I cannot ignore that and I accept the result. Therefore, why is the right hon. Gentleman running scared of parliamentary scrutiny?
Mr Davis
I am hardly running scared of parliamentary scrutiny. As has already been noted, I have made two statements to the House and appeared twice before Select Committees, and today there is this outing, and all within two and a half weeks of the parliamentary Session.
Let me return to a comment from the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras. Let us be clear that we agree that leaving the European Union is a momentous decision. With such a huge turnout—72%, with over 33 million people having their say—there is an overwhelming mandate to put the will of the British people into practice. I have spoken at length about our plan to make a success of Brexit. As I set out in my statement on 5 September—it, too, was quoted by the hon. and learned Gentleman—our plan has four aims.
First, we want to build a national consensus around our position. I have already promised more than once to listen to all sides of the debate and ensure that we fight in our negotiation for the best deal for the country. We cannot do that in an air of secrecy, but I will come back to that later. Secondly, we will put the national interest first and listen carefully to the devolved Administrations. Thirdly, wherever possible—it is not always possible—we should minimise uncertainty. That is what the great repeal Bill is about: bringing existing EU law into domestic law upon exit day, and empowering Parliament to make the changes necessary to reflect our new relationship. Finally, by the end of this process, when we have left the European Union, we will have put the sovereignty and supremacy of this Parliament beyond doubt.
Claire Perry
Fundamentally, the issue is that although we all want scrutiny, the eyes of the world and of the financial markets are upon us. I am extremely concerned about what has happened to sterling and interest rates since the Prime Minister’s comments at the party conference last week. The problem that the Secretary of State is not acknowledging is that many people in this country do not think that there is a policy to put the national interest first; they think that there is a policy to put people’s narrow ideological interests first. He should be setting out clearly how we will protect British jobs and businesses and putting ideology in the past, where it belongs.
Nadhim Zahawi
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way a second time. Does he agree with the Italian Prime Minister, Matteo Renzi, when he says that we have to make Brexit work for the EU and for the United Kingdom, because if we do not it will make a mockery of democracy? That is not ideology.
Mr Davis
He is right. Nobody involved in this exercise from the other side of the argument has ever pointed out quite how odd it is that fellow democracies—indeed, allies—threaten to punish each other for the exercise of democratic rights.
I want to take up the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry), because there is undoubtedly a big task ahead of us and people naturally want to understand where we are headed. We have been pretty clear on the overarching aims—not the detailed aims, because we are not yet at the point at which that is possible. The overarching aims are: bringing back control of our laws to Parliament; bringing back control of decisions over immigration to the UK; maintaining the strong security co-operation we have with the EU; and establishing the freest possible market in goods and services with the EU and the rest of the world. I cannot see how those are not very clear overarching strategic objectives.
Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)
It would help businesses to have as much clarity as possible on the likely future trading arrangements. I was concerned to hear VTB Bank’s announcement yesterday that it intends to locate its activity outside the UK. The more clarity we can give—without, of course, prejudicing our negotiating position, the better it will be for British businesses, because there is a danger that some may make decisions in the next three or four months.
Mr Davis
I take my hon. Friend’s point. The issue that we must bear in mind, however, is that we can give clarity as we go along in the negotiating strategy—in grand terms but not in detailed terms—but what we cannot do is tell anybody, businesses or others, where we will arrive at the final stage, because it is a negotiation. We have to face the fact that it is a negotiation and, therefore, it is not entirely under the control of one country.
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)
The hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) said on “The Politics Show” at lunchtime that it is likely that the Government will publish a Green Paper or a White Paper with their proposals to form the basis of consultation before triggering article 50. Is that the latest handbrake U-turn? What does the Secretary of State have to say?
Mr Davis
The answer is no. By the way, I think that a half U-turn is a right turn. One of the reasons I gave way to the hon. Gentleman was to say that one of the things that we have sought to clarify early on, and that does not have an associated cost in negotiating terms, is the treatment of employment rights for workers. We made that very clear very early, just as I tried to do with the status of EU migrants here. We can do those things earlier, but we cannot, as he well knows—he has negotiated any number of deals in his time—give away all our negotiating strategy early.
Mr Davis
Not at the moment. Let me just finish this section of my speech before giving way to one of my colleagues.
We have these fairly obvious, overarching strategic aims. They are very clear; they are not remotely doubtful. It must be that Labour does not want to recognise that because it finds some of those aims uncomfortable. I am not entirely sure what Labour’s policy is on European immigration. It is completely unspecified.
Keir Starmer
Are we going to get more than those four short sentences? Are we going to get a plan? That is a simple question.
Mr Davis
The hon. and learned Gentleman can wait until the later part of my speech, when I will give him the exact answer. He will have to wait for that.
The reason this has not been promised before the end of March is that it takes time, as the hon. and learned Gentleman will understand. We are meeting organisations from across the country, from the creative industries, telecoms, financial services, agriculture and energy, including the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, Universities UK and the TUC. All those organisations are putting their concerns to us. Some of those are incredibly serious concerns, which we have to deal with. We are focusing on dealing with those concerns, establishing what opportunities there are—there are significant opportunities, too—and then devising a negotiating strategy that serves the interests of the whole country: all of them, not one at a time.
Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)
My constituency has the third highest level of financial sector employment in the UK. Does the right hon. Gentleman share my concern that while employees in that sector do not hear the detail of the Government’s position on negotiations, they do hear—as we have just heard from his party’s Back Benchers—from employers who are looking, over time, to move out of this country?
Mr Davis
I am afraid that in the immediate aftermath of the vote to leave there was an extraordinary outpouring almost of grief—a “blame Brexit” festival, if you like. It ranged from the Italian Finance Minister blaming us for the state of his bond markets to, more significantly, banks in this country saying that they were laying people off because of Brexit, which, of course, turned out to be entirely untrue. I would have sympathy with employees made nervous by employers who are guessing the worst outcome.
Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)
I urge the Secretary of State to take a more constructive approach with those who have sincere anxieties about the future. Some 58% of the north-east’s exports go to EU countries. However people voted in the referendum, they did not vote to lose jobs. The terms of Brexit are absolutely essential. Does the Secretary of State not recognise that parliamentary scrutiny is therefore also essential?
Mr Davis
I started by saying that I was in favour of parliamentary scrutiny; I will widen that out later. Part of the reason for that—not the only reason, by any means—is a recognition of people’s concerns about their job futures. There is no doubt about that. That is why we said in terms that we want a free trade arrangement that is at least as good as what we have now, with both the European Union and outside.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
May I tempt the right hon. Gentleman to put some flesh on the bones of the immigration issue? Have the Government arrived at a decision to give EU citizens currently here the rights that they had on 23 June? Have they agreed to break the automaticity between trade and people? Have they agreed that EU citizens should have the same conditions for immigration as non-EU citizens? There must be some very broad principles that he could share with the House now.
Mr Davis
Let me deal with the first issue that the right hon. Lady raised: the treatment of current EU migrants. I have said in terms—I was quoted by the shadow Secretary of State—that we seek to give them guarantees as good as they have now. The only condition is that we get the same guarantees for British citizens. Far from making people bargaining chips, treating them as a group, collectively, avoids making them bargaining chips.
On other aspects of immigration policy, my task is to bring control back to the UK, not to decide what eventual immigration policy will be. It must be decidable here, in this House, by the British Government, subject to parliamentary oversight and control.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Davis
I will make some progress and give way again in a moment.
I return to the Opposition’s motion. They say that there should be
“a full and transparent debate on the Government’s plan for leaving the EU”.
I agree. At the same time, I am sure that we can all agree that nothing should be done to compromise the national interest in the negotiation to come; I think the shadow Secretary of State said that in his opening speech.
I could list the 100 questions that we have answered, the oral statements, the appearances before Select Committees; the House knows all that. As a Department, we are not being backward in appearing in front of the House. The House may not be overwhelmed with the detail of the answers yet—that is hardly surprising: we are only a few weeks into the process and six months away from the end of it. The simple truth is that we are appearing regularly in front of the House and seeking to give as much as we can.
Caroline Lucas
The right hon. Gentleman said a moment ago that the great repeal Bill will give us some certainty, so may I ask him for certainty on environmental legislation in particular? Even when EU legislation has been enshrined in UK law, we need to know, first, the extent to which any future changes to environmental safeguards will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny and vote; and, secondly, what kind of accountability mechanisms he imagines will be in place. Once we are out of the EU, we lose access to the European Court of Justice and the Commission. How will that environmental legislation become judiciable?
Mr Davis
The legislation is judiciable and subject to amendment in this House. It will be entirely subject to the will of the House. Any Government seeking to alter it will have to get the permission of the House through a vote in the House. That is very plain. It will also be under the jurisdiction of the British courts; that is the other aspect that the hon. Lady asked about.
Anna Soubry
To follow up on the question asked by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), I seek a bone. Will my right hon. Friend please tell us whether the Government have turned their backs on membership of the single market? Yes or no, please.
Mr Davis
I am afraid that that intervention is rather a demonstration of one of the problems that we have with the language on this issue. People have been talking about “hard Brexit” and “soft Brexit”, which mean very little. Attempts have been made to pigeonhole what could be any one of a whole range of outcomes in market terms. We have not yet started a negotiation with the European Union and there is a whole spectrum—from free trade area, to customs union, to the single market arrangement. The shadow Secretary of State was laying out some of those possibilities. We are not going to go for a Norwegian, Turkish or Swiss option—we are going for a British option, which will be tailored to our interests and better for our interests than any other option.
Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab)
The right hon. Gentleman’s non-answer to the reasonable question asked by the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) illustrates the point. The reason he is struggling today can be found in the words of Sir Andrew Cahn, who said in September:
“I find it…shocking…that David Cameron as Prime Minister prohibited the civil service from doing preparatory work…I think it was a humiliation for this country that our partners in Europe should say: ‘You’ve voted for this, but you have no idea what you want’”.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give any plausible explanation for that serious dereliction of duty by the former Prime Minister?
Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Mrs Gillan
I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend.
May I nail this lie once and for all? The other day, the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee took evidence from Sir Jeremy Heywood, who confirmed that senior civil servants were meeting before the referendum to discuss the outcomes, including the possibility that the country would vote to leave the European Union. Plans and preparations were being made by the British civil service before the referendum.
Mr Davis
I will now move on to the question of scrutiny itself.
The House already has plans to put in place the so-called Brexit Select Committee, which will take effect next month, and we will be appearing in front of it regularly. It would be surprising if we appeared in front of that Committee and did not talk about some of our plans. I expect to attend the Committee regularly, just as I will attend the Lords Committee—its equivalent, effectively. We do not shy away from scrutiny; we welcome it. Members will know that I have continually welcomed and championed the extension of Select Committee powers since the publication of the Wright Committee report in 2009. The public expect Ministers to engage with Parliament in this way, and we will continue to do so.
Mr Davis
In a moment.
I also made a commitment in September that this Parliament will be at least as informed of progress in our negotiations as the European Parliament. The hon. and learned Gentleman did not appear to believe it when I told the Lords, but it was also made plain to the Foreign Affairs Committee. We are setting up administrative procedures to ensure that, when this becomes relevant in a month or two, these things happen and happen quickly, so that we do not have to go to an EU website to find what we want to know. That will be the minimum, but Members should understand that we will be going considerably beyond that.
Mr Davis
In a moment—a very Scot Nat way of getting attention.
I made the commitment that Parliament be kept at least as informed as, and better informed than, the European Parliament. I have also asked the Chief Whip through the usual channels to ensure that we have a series of debates so that the House can air its views. Again, it would be very surprising if we had those debates without presenting to the House something for it to debate.
Neil Gray
I refer back to the question from the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), which I do not think the Secretary of State answered adequately. You are either a member of the single market or you are not. It is clear now that the Government need to spell things out: are they in favour of being members of the single market or are they not? Inform the House.
Mr Davis
It is astonishing how linear, or black and white, some Members think this is. We have Norway, which is inside the single market and outside the customs union; we have Turkey, which is inside the customs union and outside the single market; and we have Switzerland, which is not in the single market but has equivalent access to all of its productive and manufacturing services. There is not a single entity, but a spectrum of outcomes, and we will be seeking to get the best of that spectrum of outcomes.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will know that, throughout the country, when this issue was being discussed, the British public knew that membership of the single market meant free movement of labour. That was one of the basic principles behind why people, in their millions, voted to leave. Is it not time that we straightforwardly said that we want the fullest possible access to the single market, but that we cannot, if we are going to stop free movement, which is what the people of this country wanted, be members of the single market?
Mr Davis
Broadly, the argument about full access and control of our borders is an argument that the Prime Minister has already made in the last few weeks, so I do not think I need to elaborate on it. However, let us understand something about this—sometimes, we seem to be arguing over which end of the egg we open first. The argument between us is where the dividing line is on what we tell Parliament about. The hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras recognised in terms, I think, that we could not give every detail to Parliament and that, despite his letter, we could not give a blow-by-blow account—that we could not have Parliament dictate how we dealt with the trade-offs, the terms and so on. [Interruption.] Despite the noise to his right, it is fairly plain that that is what the criterion is; that is where the problem is.
Let us be clear how this applies. If someone tells their opposite number in a negotiation exactly what their top priority is, that will make that top priority extremely expensive. Ordinary people, in their ordinary lives, probably do one big transaction themselves, and that is the purchase of a house. If someone went to buy a house, and they looked at only one house, told the owner that they were in love with that house and made a bid for it, I suspect the price would go up.
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr Davis
In a moment—I have a lady over here who wants to make an intervention.
Similarly, if someone makes pre-emptive indications that they are willing to make a concession on something, they reduce the value of that concession. Therefore, in many, many ways, we cannot give details about how we will run the negotiation.
Mrs Miller
My right hon. Friend is right that negotiations are a fragile process. I welcome his support for scrutiny. My Select Committee—the Women and Equalities Committee—is looking closely at the impact of Brexit on equality protections, which I am sure is not high on his list at the moment. We want to do some of the work on that with him. Will he undertake today to work with us on that and to contribute to our Select Committee inquiry? At the moment, we are finding it difficult to secure that contribution from his Department.
Mr Davis
I see no reason not to help the Select Committee on that basis; that seems an eminently sensible use of time and of the Select Committee’s expertise, so of course we will do that. However, this will be an issue right across the board; pretty much every Select Committee in the House of Commons will have an interest, one way or another, in the progress of Brexit and in what the outcome will be.
Chris Bryant
May I ask the Secretary of State about timing? As I understand it, the Government intend us to have left the European Union by 1 April 2019. The two years allowed for in article 50 will transpire during that period, but he has already laid out loads of different areas that will have to be legislated for as a result of the negotiations. After the negotiations have happened, he might be overturned in this House or at the other end of the building. How will he make sure that he carries the whole country with him on each of the bits and pieces of the detail if he has not produced a draft of what he is aiming for in the first place?
Mr Davis
That is why we made it plain at the beginning of this process that we would have the great repeal Bill, which will put into UK law—or domestic law, more accurately—what is currently the acquis communautaire. That is the start position. Then it comes down to the House to amend that under the guidance of the individual Departments. There may be, for example, a fisheries Bill; there may be some other legislation of that nature. That will have to be argued through at the time. It is pretty straightforward.
Mr McFadden
The Secretary of State said a moment ago that it would be a mistake for the Government to illustrate what its top priority in the negotiations was, but is it not the case that every speech at the Conservative party conference indicated that the top priority was the control and limitation of immigration from within the European Union?
Mr Davis
That, frankly, will be within our own control. If you leave the European Union, that gives you control over that issue. How you deal with the European Union, and trade with it, then comes on from there, so that is not an issue that actually meets that.
The simple demonstration of the point I am making is this: in Northern Ireland, where we have the really important issue of soft borders to resolve, both sides of the decision-making process—the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government—have a similar interest. As a result, we can be very open about that issue, and we have indeed been very open about it; indeed, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland was quoted in The Guardian on Monday in detail about what he is trying to achieve in terms of customs arrangements, cross-border arrangements and the common travel area. All of those things were very straightforwardly laid out in some detail. Why? Because that does not give away any of our negotiating cards, as this is between two people with the same aim. That is a much better example of how we have to be careful about what we say as we go into the negotiations.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
The Secretary of State mentions taking back control of fisheries, so is it an area that might be devolved to the Scottish Parliament after the United Kingdom leaves the European Union? Will he rule out—unlike the Secretary of State for Scotland, who seemed to be unable to do so earlier today—any power being repatriated from the Scottish Parliament to this place as part of the Brexit process?
Mr Davis
I would not expect that as part of the Brexit process. To take the serious point, we need to discuss with all the devolved Administrations how to address sectors—such as fisheries, farming, hill farming—the legal basis of which will alter as we bring things back to the United Kingdom.
Alex Salmond
The position or the status quo, as the Secretary of State well knows, is that everything is devolved to Scotland unless it is reserved. Agriculture and fisheries are not reserved; therefore, they are devolved. Unless the Government intend to change that position, agriculture and fisheries will automatically go to the Scottish Government.
Mr Davis
This is an area on which we have not talked to the devolved Administration yet. We will do so before we get to bringing such things back.
Such an attitude on the details of the negotiations is not taken simply by the Government. The Lords European Union Committee concluded:
“It is clear…that parliamentary scrutiny of the negotiations will have to strike a balance between, on the one hand, the desire for transparency, and on the other, the need to avoid undermining the UK’s negotiating position.”
This is hardly rocket science. It should hardly be controversial; it should be straightforward. At every stage of this process, I want this House to be engaged and updated. As I have made clear, we will observe the constitutional and legal conventions that apply to any new treaty on a new relationship with the European Union.
Mr Davis
I will give way in a moment.
I want to address the final part of the motion about this House being able properly to scrutinise Government plans for leaving the EU before article 50 is invoked. Article 50 sets out the process by which we leave the EU, which has been decided by the British people. Invoking it is a job for the Government. Leaving the EU is what the British people voted for on 23 June, and article 50 is how we do it.
Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)
I welcome the terms of the Government amendment, which seems entirely sensible. Does my right hon. Friend therefore agree, and is my understanding right, that he now accepts that those of us raising concerns about the level of debate necessary ahead of the triggering of article 50 are by no means seeking to frustrate the will of the people—we recognise the instruction from the British people that we should leave the European Union—but seeking a full understanding of the Government’s broad negotiating aims?
Mr Davis
I am glad to hear my right hon. Friend say that. In truth, scrutiny of our strategic aims is what debates such as this are about, as is parliamentary engagement of the kind I have mentioned—debating the issues that will inform our negotiating position, and holding the Government to account. However, such scrutiny has to be at the strategic level; it cannot be at the tactical level or enter into the detailed negotiation.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Is this not one of those strange debates in which both sides actually agree with each other—in this case, that we will have parliamentary scrutiny? If the Opposition are against such an approach, they can have Opposition days, hold Back-Bench business debates, table urgent questions, ask questions during statements and have Westminster Hall debates. All those are in the power of Parliament. We are absolutely not disagreeing; in the end, we will all agree with the amended motion. There is a lot of general noise, but Parliament is actually agreeing that the process should go forward, and we will scrutinise it properly. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is the gist of it?
Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
The right hon. Gentleman mentioned hill farming, the agricultural sector and the fisheries sector. I happen to be a crofter, and many crofters will be wondering whether there will still be financial support for hill sheep farmers and the rest post-Brexit. Indeed, fishermen will be asking the same about the assistance for purchasing and upgrading fishing boats. On those two things, can we be sure that the money coming from Europe will be replaced by the UK Government?
Mr Davis
I think the hon. Gentleman will know that we have already made undertakings in relation to the 2020 round, which is of course the end of the European guarantee. Beyond that, I am quite sure the Treasury will be looking very hard at the necessary economics of such industries in all the devolved Administrations and, indeed, in England.
Mr Davis
No, I will not give way.
Let me be clear: the Opposition spokesman said that the British people did not vote for any particular model of Brexit—I think that is pretty much what he said—but they voted to “leave the European Union”, which were the words on the ballot paper. It is reasonable to think that they did not make an assumption about soft Brexit or hard Brexit, or any other specification of Brexit; they assumed that the British Government would set about negotiating to get the best possible result for all parts of society, all parts of the United Kingdom—including all the devolved Administrations—and all industries, sectors, services, manufacturers and so on. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) says, “Yeah, yeah”. We know her view of the British working class. She has really had a very good time on that, has she not? I take a much more serious view of the fate of the British working class under a Government that she would support.
Mr Davis
No.
The simple truth is that the British Government are setting out to achieve the best possible outcome on security, on control of our borders and in democratic terms, as well as for access to markets across the whole world: the European Union and all the opportunities outside it. The British people voted for that—17.5 million of them.
Stephen Gethins
I will—perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will give us an answer.
Mr David Davis
I apologise for having to intervene to give this answer. The Prime Minister showed very clearly how important she considered the devolved Administration in Scotland. She went to Scotland first after coming to power, and said, plainly, two things. One was that we will consult and have detailed discussions with the Scottish Administration, and those in Wales and Northern Ireland, before we trigger article 50 and bring the great repeal Bill to the House. But we cannot give anyone a veto. We consider ourselves bound by the decision of the British people. No one can say, “No, you can’t do this”, but we will do everything possible in our power to meet the needs of the Scottish people and the other devolved Administrations.
Stephen Gethins
Yet more time at the Dispatch Box for the Secretary of State, but with even less information. We were told that there would be an agreed position with the devolved Administrations. He seems to be backtracking on that. Perhaps in due course he will tell us whether there will still be that agreed position. However, I do not want to get him into trouble yet again, so will leave him to chat to the Prime Minister about that.
Next Steps in Leaving the European Union
David Davis Excerpts(8 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Davis)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a statement on the next steps in leaving the European Union.
The mandate for Britain to leave the European Union is clear, overwhelming and unarguable. As the Prime Minister has said more than once, we will make a success of Brexit, and no one should seek to find ways to thwart the will of the people expressed in the referendum on 23 June. It is now incumbent on the Government to deliver an exit in the most orderly and smooth way possible, delivering maximum certainty for businesses and workers. I want to update the House on how the Government plan to reflect UK withdrawal from the European Union on the statute book while delivering that certainty and stability.
We will start by bringing forward a great repeal Bill that will mean the European Communities Act 1972 ceases to apply on the day we leave the EU. It was this Act that put EU law above UK law, so it is right, given the clear instruction for exit given to us by the people in the referendum, that we end the authority of European Union law. We will return sovereignty to the institutions of this United Kingdom. That is what people voted for on 23 June: for Britain to take control of its own destiny, and for all decisions about taxpayers’ money, borders and laws to be taken here in Britain.
The referendum was backed by six to one in this House. On all sides of the argument—leave and remain—we have a duty to respect and carry out the people’s instruction. As I have said, the mandate is clear, and we will reject any attempt to undo the referendum result, any attempt to hold up the process unduly or any attempt to keep Britain in the EU by the back door by those who did not like the answer they were given on 23 June.
We are consulting widely with business and Parliament, and we want to hear and take account of all views and opinions. The Prime Minister has been clear that we will not be giving a running commentary, because that is not the way to get the right deal for Britain, but we are committed to providing clarity where we can as part of this consultative approach. Naturally, I want this House to be engaged throughout, and we will observe the constitutional and legal precedents that apply to any new treaty on a new relationship with the European Union. Indeed, my whole approach is about empowering this place. [Interruption.] Think about it.
The great repeal Act will convert existing European Union law into domestic law, wherever practical. That will provide for a calm and orderly exit, and give as much certainty as possible to employers, investors, consumers and workers. We have been clear that UK employment law already goes further than European Union law in many areas, and this Government will do nothing to undermine those rights in the workplace. I notice there were no cheers for that on the Labour Benches.
In all, there is more than 40 years of European Union law in UK law to consider, and some of it simply will not work on exit. We must act to ensure there is no black hole in our statute book. It will then be for this House—I repeat, this House—to consider changes to our domestic legislation to reflect the outcome of our negotiation and our exit, subject to international treaties and agreements with other countries and the EU on matters such as trade.
The European Communities Act means that if there is a clash between an Act of the UK Parliament and EU law, European Union law prevails. As a result, we have had to abide by judgments delivered by the European Court of Justice in its interpretation of European Union law. The great repeal Bill will change that with effect from the day we leave the European Union.
Legislation resulting from the UK’s exit must work for the whole of the United Kingdom. To that end, although no one part of the UK can have a veto over our exit, the Government will consult the devolved Administrations. I have already held initial conversations with the leaders of the devolved Governments about our plans, and I will make sure that the devolved Administrations have every opportunity to work closely with us.
Let me be absolutely clear: this Bill is a separate issue from when article 50 will be triggered. The great repeal Bill is not what will take us out of the EU, but what will ensure the UK statute book is fit for purpose after we have left. It will put the elected politicians in this country fully in control of determining the laws that affect its people’s lives—something that does not apply today.
To leave the EU, we will follow the process set out in article 50 of the treaty on European Union. The Prime Minister will invoke article 50 no later than the end of March next year. That gives us the space required to do the necessary work to shape our negotiating strategy. The House will understand that this is a very extensive and detailed programme of work that will take some time. The clarity on the timing of our proposed exit also gives the European Union the time needed to prepare its position for the negotiation. The President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, said that the Prime Minister had brought, and I quote, “welcome” certainty on the timing of Brexit talks.
We will, as Britain always should, abide by our treaty obligations. We will not tear up EU law unilaterally, as some have suggested, but ensure that there is stability and certainty as Britain takes control on the day of exit, and not before.
People have asked what our plan is for exit. This is the first stage. To be prepared for an orderly exit, there is a need to move forward on domestic legislation, in parallel with our European negotiation, so that we are ready for the day of our withdrawal, when the process set out in article 50 concludes. Therefore, I can tell the House that we intend to introduce the great repeal Bill in the next parliamentary Session. It demonstrates the Government’s determination to deliver the will of the British people, expressed in the EU referendum result, that Britain should once again make its own laws for its own people.
It is nations that are outward-looking, enterprising and agile that will prosper in an age of globalisation. I believe that when we have left the European Union, when we are once again in true control of our own affairs, we will be in an even stronger position to confront the challenges of the future. The Government will build a global Britain that will trade around the world, build new alliances with other countries and deliver prosperity for its people.
Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and thank him for advance notice of it.
The decisions the Government take over the next few months and years on exiting the EU will define us for a generation, so I look forward to seeing the Secretary of State regularly at the Dispatch Box. However, I have to say that he is not making a very good start. His first statement on 5 September was widely criticised for saying nothing, and this one is not much better. When I first read it, I thought it was the statement he gave last time—a bit of process and no substance—but I congratulate him on a bit of humour in the phrase, “we are committed to providing clarity where we can”.
During the referendum campaign, much was made by the leave side of parliamentary sovereignty. In his statement, the Secretary of State said, “We will return sovereignty to the institutions of this United Kingdom.” Yet it seems that the Government want to draw up negotiating terms, negotiate and reach a deal without any parliamentary approval. That is not making Parliament sovereign; it is sidelining Parliament. That is why Labour is calling for a vote on the basic terms proposed by the Government before article 50 is invoked. Some argue that that is a device to frustrate the process. It is nothing of the sort. It is making sure that we get the best possible deal for Britain; it is making sure that the Government actually have a plan; and it is basic accountability on some of the most important decisions of our lifetime.
Let us remind ourselves that the Government had no plan for Brexit in their 2015 manifesto. In fact, they had a manifesto commitment to
“safeguard British interests in the single market.”
Whitehall famously made no plans for the leave vote, and the Prime Minister did not explain her plans for Brexit before assuming office. Now the Government plan to proceed to an exit deal without a vote in this House, which is wholly unacceptable in any democracy. If there is to be no vote when the terms of negotiation are agreed, at what stage in the process does the Secretary of State propose that the basic terms of the article 50 negotiations, about which he said nothing today, should be debated and voted on in this House?
The Secretary of State makes much of the great repeal Bill, so we are having a conversation and debate now about what will happen at the very end of the process instead of what is happening at the beginning of the process. That Bill will not provide for parliamentary scrutiny of the article 50 negotiating plans; it is about what will happen after exit. Can he confirm that the vote on the great repeal Bill will come after, not before, article 50 is invoked next March?
We accept and respect the result of the referendum, but neither those who voted to remain nor those who voted to leave gave the Government a mandate to take an axe to our economy. Throughout the process, the national interest must come first, but by flirting with hard Brexit the Prime Minister puts at risk Britain’s access to the single market, rather than doing the right thing for jobs, business and working people in this country. In fact, I observe that the words “single market” did not appear at all in today’s statement. So much for putting the national interest first.
We need clarity, and we need answers. Can the Secretary of State assure the House today that the Government will seek continued access to the single market on the best possible terms? Will he also assure us that they will end the divisive and hostile tone of Brexit discussions in recent weeks? This is the defining issue of this Parliament and, quite probably, Parliaments to come. The job of any responsible Government is now to bring the country together, not to drive it apart. I hope that he will take that approach.
Mr Davis
I start by welcoming the hon. and learned Gentleman to the Dispatch Box. It is a pleasure to appear opposite him.
I will read to the hon. and learned Gentleman a warning from his own party’s shadow Home Secretary, who has said of his comments:
“We have to be really careful that we’re not seen to be not listening. There will be scrutiny but it is, I think, not helpful to pretend we can reverse the result.”
That is a summary from inside the hon. and learned Gentleman’s own party, which does not really support where he is coming from today.
The hon. and learned Gentleman is a lawyer by training and career. Article 50 is a prerogative power in the view of all the lawyers we have spoken to, and in the view of the Attorney-General, who will be presenting that case in court in the coming week. It will be decided in court, which the hon. and learned Gentleman ought to take seriously.
As for the hon. and learned Gentleman’s comments about parliamentary accountability, my Department has effectively existed since the middle of the summer, and in the two weeks of parliamentary sittings that we have had since, we have had two statements and a couple of debates, and we will have his own debate on Wednesday. We are announcing a major piece of legislation very early, and successor legislation to that Bill will also take place. A new Select Committee will be set up to oversee the Department, and there will be numerous debates over the next two years. At the end of the process, we will follow each and every legal and constitutional convention and requirement that applies to all European legislation and treaties. I cannot see how the hon. and learned Gentleman thinks that is in some way not accountable.
After that has happened, Parliament will be able to amend all European Union law, which it has been unable to do before—a fact that the hon. and learned Gentleman overlooked in his comments about accountability. I am afraid he really has to understand the distinction between accountability—I have a little bit of experience of holding Governments to account—and micromanagement, which is what he is trying to do. We have made our view on the negotiations pretty plain. We have said very clearly that we want to control borders. Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree with that? He can nod or shake his head. Does he want to control borders? He is absolutely stationary—no sign. We want to control our laws. Does he agree with that? No sign. We want the most open barrier-free access to the European market, full stop. That is very clear.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
What about the economy?
Mr Davis
The hon. Lady is shouting, “What about our economy?” That is the answer: we want the most open barrier-free access to the European market. We have heard lots and lots of very unhelpful—misleading, frankly—comments about hard Brexit and soft Brexit. We want the best possible access terms, full stop. The best terms—that is it.
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement, and urge him to resist the temptation of advice from a second-rate lawyer who does not even understand the parliamentary process? If he is to advise his opposite number, the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), he might remind him that the repeal of the European Communities Act 1972 will give many opportunities to amend and debate every single aspect of the discussions around the invoking of article 50. In case the hon. and learned Gentleman has not noticed, the Opposition have the device of Opposition days, when they can debate absolutely anything they choose, including the whole issue of the European Union. May I urge my right hon. Friend to get on with the process and not to listen to those who want to bog it down and never let it happen?
Mr Davis
With the mild exception of the rudeness about the legal qualifications of the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), I agree with everything my right hon. Friend has said. The simple truth is that the attempt to block article 50 is an attempt to block the will of the British people, full stop. There will be plenty of opportunity for debate in the next two and a half years, during discussions of the Act and the successor legislation, and any number of other debates between now and then.
Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)
May I also thank the Secretary of State for coming to the House to try to update us today? I wish him all the best for trying to get through his statement without getting into trouble with his boss, the Prime Minister, this time. He seems to be aiming to do that by not telling us anything. We may be no clearer on whether this is a soft Brexit or a hard Brexit, but we know it is a dog’s Brexit. I will be frank: this Government’s frankly irresponsible failure to provide any details about their plans is having an impact beyond this place. The Fraser of Allander Institute reckons that in Scotland alone there could be between 30,000 and 80,000 jobs lost because of his plans to take us out of the European Union.
My first question is, will the Secretary of State tell us what plans he has to formally involve the devolved Administrations? I noticed that he talked previously about involving them, but now talks about consulting them. The Government have provided us no answers, so I am going to try to make it easy for him. He has had 89 days since he took up his post—three months on Thursday. To stop him getting into any more trouble with the Prime Minister, I am going to make the next question very, very simple. Does he agree with page 72 of the Conservative party manifesto, on which he was elected, that it should be
“yes to the Single Market”?
In fact, I will make it easier: is it his objective to keep the United Kingdom in the single market?
Mr Davis
Well, that was longer on length than it was on content. Let me answer both the hon. Gentleman’s comments. He intimated that we were not going to involve the devolved Administrations. That is not the case, as his own leader in Scotland will tell him—indeed, she was called before we announced the great repeal Act to make sure she was aware of it. I cannot remember her exact words, but she said she thought it was very straightforward or common sense—something of that nature.
On our approach to the negotiations, I will not go into the details, but it is very clear. The objectives are simple: to meet the instruction from the British people, which means regaining control of our borders, regaining control of our laws and regaining control of our money, and at the same time getting the best possible access to the European market that we can negotiate—end of story. It is very simple.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
By definition, we cannot negotiate taking back control—we have to take back control; that is what we voted for—so I find the Secretary of State’s view very clear and refreshing. Does he agree that the way to deal with the trade issue is to offer to our partners to carry on trading tariff-free on the same basis as at present and to challenge them to say how they want to wreck it?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend is right that we want them to operate tariff-free, but it is not just tariff barriers. We also have to negotiate non-tariff barriers. It is central to the argument he makes that it is in both Europe’s interest and our interest to have tariff-free and non-tariff barrier based trade. That is where the jobs are. The hon. Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins) raised the question of jobs in Scotland. It is jobs in the whole of the United Kingdom that we have to maintain, expand and create opportunities for, and that is precisely what we will do.
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)
There is clearly a mandate for Brexit from the referendum, but there is no mandate for the particular form of Brexit. Three days before he was appointed, the Secretary of State published an article saying it was very important to publish a pre-negotiation White Paper. Can he tell us when he will publish that White Paper? As someone who for many years railed about the importance of the powers of Back Benchers and Parliament against the Executive, can he now give us, with a straight face, an answer to this question: where is the Government’s mandate for their negotiations, either from this House or from the country?
Mr Davis
Let us deal with the last question first. I really cannot believe my ears. Here we have the largest mandate that this country has ever given to a Government on any subject in our history. It is very plain. Frankly, I will not take lectures from the right hon. Gentleman on accountability either. We have two things to balance. One is the national interest in getting the right negotiation. I know of no negotiation in history, either in commerce or in politics or international affairs, where telling everybody what we are going to do in precise detail before we do so leads to a successful outcome. What I have said to two Select Committees of this House and the other House—indeed, I said this in the last statement—is that we will be as open as we can be. There will be plenty of debates on this matter. What we will not do is lay out a detailed strategy and a detailed set of tactics before we engage with our opposite numbers in the negotiation.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)
May I make it very clear that, like everybody on the Government Benches, I was elected on a clear manifesto promise to respect and honour the referendum result? We know that we will leave the European Union, but the comments of the director general of the CBI should cause us all much concern. She has confirmed the fears of many on these Benches that there is a danger that this Government appear to be turning their back on the single market and not valuing the real benefit of migrant workers. Can my right hon. Friend now give assurances to British business that we have not turned our back on the single market and that we welcome migrant workers to this country?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend was, if I remember correctly, at the Conservative party conference, and she may have heard what I said there. There were two things that relate to this. One is that the single market is one description of the way the European Union operates, but there are plenty of people who have access to the single market, some of them tariff-free, who make a great success of that access, and it is that success that we are aiming for.
The other point I made was that the global competition for talent is something that we must engage in. If we are going to win the global competition in economic terms, we must engage in the global competition for talent. We are entirely determined to do that, but that does not mean, and it is not the same as, having no control of immigration. They are very different issues. We will be going for global talent and we will be going for the best market access we can obtain.
Mr Nick Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam) (LD)
I have always been a great admirer of the Secretary of State for his staunch defence of civil liberties and his staunch defence of the prerogatives of this House. I was a great admirer when he brought forward the Parliamentary Control of the Executive Bill in 1999 and stirringly told us that
“Executive decisions by the Government should be subject to the scrutiny and approval of Parliament”.—[Official Report, 22 June 1999; Vol. 352, c. 931.]
Can he tell us on the basis of what constitutional principle he believes the Prime Minister can now arrogate to herself the exclusive right to interpret what Brexit means and impose it upon the country, rather than protect the rightful role of scrutiny and approval of this House?
Mr Davis
Here we go again. The right hon. Gentleman cannot tell the difference between accountability and micromanagement—it really is as simple as that. The simple truth is that there will be debates galore in this House, starting on Wednesday and thereafter, about what the Government’s strategy will be. We will tell the House as much as we can, but not enough to compromise the negotiation. At every turn, right through to the end, we will obey the conventions and laws that apply to the creation, removal and reform of treaties: every single one. This Government believe in the rule of law and that is how we will behave.
Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)
Has my right hon. Friend observed that some seem to have forgotten that the European Union Referendum Act 2015 gave the right to make the decision? Furthermore, the sovereignty of the people was given the opportunity to make that decision on the occasion of the referendum itself. As regards the repeal Bill, the sovereignty of Parliament will be maintained, because it will be decided in this House. All the procedures relating to article 50 are Government prerogative and not subject to the decision of Parliament itself at this stage.
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend is exactly right. He will remember that the Referendum Bill was carried in this House by a 6:1 majority, which included the vast majority of those on the Opposition Benches. He will also, because he is a constitutional lawyer, understand better than anyone else that Crown prerogative rests on the will of the people—that is the theoretical underpinning of it. There is no exercise of Crown prerogative in history that is better underpinned by the will of the people than this particular exercise.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)
This is the first time I have ever heard parliamentary sovereignty referred to as micromanagement.
In the past few weeks, we have seen many hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals working here question the welcome they received in this country and their future in this country. We know that many UK citizens living and working abroad in Europe are going through similar turmoil. We have heard now that the Foreign Office has told the London School of Economics that it cannot involve foreign nationals in the work of Brexit as part of a contract. Will the Secretary of State condemn that? Will he reassure the UK citizens living abroad, and will he reassure EU citizens living and working here that they are welcome here in this country? Will he reassure Parliament that, however the Brexit negotiations go, the current arrangement will be maintained?
Mr Davis
I am sure the hon. Lady would not willingly give the House information that is not right, so let me first say that the supposed decision or comment from the Foreign Office is simply not true. I am assured of that by the Foreign Secretary sitting next to me and I think the LSE has also said that.
The other point the hon. Lady made, which is one I raised last week, is extremely serious. I will say two things, first not on the legal status, but on the attitude of some people post-referendum—the encouragement of hatred and so on. I condemn that unreservedly and I think everybody in this House would condemn that whipping up of hatred unreservedly. In terms of European migrants here, the intention of the Government is to do everything possible to underwrite and guarantee their position, at the same time as we underwrite the similar position of British migrants abroad. That is what we intend to do—
Mr Davis
I will answer that shout from the Front Bench. The answer is as soon as I can get that negotiation concluded with the European Union—full stop. Individuals should not worry people unnecessarily or get them concerned. Bear in mind, five out of six migrants who are here either already have indefinite leave to remain or will have it by the time we depart the Union. It is an important question that I take seriously, and I am determined that we get an outcome that is successful for everyone.
Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)
Did my right hon. Friend note the comments by President Hollande that the United Kingdom should be made to pay a price for leaving the EU, presumably by having tariffs imposed on our trade with it? Did he respond to the President that clearly he feels that, in the absence of such punishment, leaving the EU would leave the UK manifestly better off? Such punishment would fall primarily on French exporters, as they export far more to us, whereas our exporters are benefiting from a 14% improvement in their competitiveness—three times the likely tariffs, on average, that may be imposed on them.
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend—and erstwhile Trade Secretary, if I remember correctly—is exactly right. The damage done by a supposed punishment strategy would be primarily to the industries and farmers on the continent who export to this country. I am afraid that Mr Hollande, Mrs Merkel and others will experience pressure from their own constituents that says, “This is not a good strategy to pursue.” In this country, we believe in free trade because it is beneficial to both sides. I do not see the logic in exercising a punishment strategy against one of their strongest and most loyal allies.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
EU citizens living here and UK citizens living in the EU deserve to hear as soon as possible from the Government that their rights are protected and will continue to be protected. Within that process, will the Secretary of State also talk to the Home Secretary and recognise that the current system of registration certificates, residence cards, indefinite leave and permanent residence requirements for comprehensive health insurance is incoherent and inconsistent? Unless he gets some consistency into that whole packet, establishing those rights and how we go further will be very difficult.
Mr Davis
The right hon. Lady had an opportunity about half an hour ago to make that point directly to the Home Secretary, but I will draw it to my right hon. Friend’s attention. That is the best thing I can do. The simple truth is that I am concerned if people are afraid for their position in this country, and we will put that right as soon as we can.
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)
My right hon. Friend will understand and probably appreciate the irony that the more successful he is in delivering a negotiation that meets the mutual interests of ourselves and the 27, the greater the political challenge for the 27, as it will be seen as rewarding the United Kingdom for Brexit. That opens the rather obvious possibility that at the end of the negotiations they may be blocked, either by a qualified minority on the Council or by the European Parliament. I welcome his undertaking to deliver certainty and clarity where he can, but what plans does he have to enumerate publicly the implications of having no deal at the end of two years of negotiations?
Mr Davis
What I say to my hon. Friend at this point is that if the European Union adheres to a punishment plan and it fails—as I believe it would—that would be an even bigger incentive to countries that want to leave than no punishment plan at all. The approach that is being talked about would put at risk the stability of the European Union, which has financial instabilities of its own, and it should take that seriously.
Mr Speaker
I gently implore the Secretary of State to face the House so that we can all benefit from his mellifluous tones. [Interruption.] Somebody chunters rather ungraciously from a sedentary position or otherwise, “You pays your money and you takes your choice,” but the right hon. Gentleman must be heard.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
Last week, the Government were required to publish the submission they put into the court defending their reasons for using the royal prerogative. This is what it said:
“The relief sought…to compel the Secretary of State to introduce legislation into Parliament to give effect to the outcome of the referendum—is constitutionally impermissible. The Court would be trespassing on proceedings in Parliament.”
It is obviously nonsensical to say that to involve Parliament is trespassing on Parliament. Did the Secretary of State really give the instructions to the lawyers for this submission?
Mr Davis
I shall be very careful because one has to be careful when we are talking about court cases. The main guidance I gave to the Attorney-General was that a would-be vote in this House on article 50 could have two outcomes. It either lets it through or it stops it. If it stops it, what would be the outcome? It would be a refusal to implement the decision of the British people, creating as a result a constitutional problem to say the least. That was then interpreted by the lawyers as they saw fit.
Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)
May I congratulate the Secretary of State on the steady and careful progress he is making at the head of a brand-new Department after being in the job for only 12 weeks? I think he is now dealing with a totally unprecedented constitutional issue and that he should take it slowly and carefully. The Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee had the Cabinet Secretary before it on 14 September. He told us that there was no shortage of very talented and highly qualified civil servants queuing up to join my right hon. Friend’s Department and the other new Department of State. However, he also told us that it was only staffed to the level of 80%. Can the Secretary of State tell us whether he is now fully staffed at 100%?
Mr Davis
I thank my right hon. Friend for her compliments, but I would say two things to her. First, we need to make expeditious progress. That is, I think, one of the requirements that the referendum lays upon us. Secondly, the staffing is not yet 100% because we have to acquire sets of very specific skills. There have recently been arguments in the papers about everything from passporting to customs and just-in-time systems, and we have to be able to deal with that. These are not normally skills that are widely available in Whitehall, so it will take a little time to get from 80% to 100%.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State understand that the conflicting signals emanating from the Government about the type of Brexit that they wish to pursue are creating a great deal of uncertainty among businesses and the people who rely on them for their living, one aspect of which is the fear that we might leave the European Union without an agreement on trade, which would leave these businesses to cope on World Trade Organisation terms? Can the Secretary of State tell the House whether it is his policy, in those circumstances, to seek a transitional agreement to cover the period until such time as a final status agreement on trade and market access is agreed with the other 27 member states?
Mr Davis
I am inclined to say that the right hon. Gentleman’s father will be smiling down on both of us. He makes a good point on the effect of the uncertainty. It is partly a problem of the preparation process and that there is less out there. I have said to every single interest group I have spoken to—that includes the CBI, despite the comments made this morning, the British Chambers of Commerce, the Engineering Employers Federation and others, as well as the TUC and others on the other side—that we need to have the hard data about the nature of the problem. For example, there are about nine different sorts of passports and we need to be more specific. We also need hard data about the size of the problem in terms of both money and jobs, and the actions we can take to deal with that. That is why we need to take the time until perhaps March. In doing so, we will try to winnow down the size of the negotiation that needs to be done, and then make it faster than it would otherwise be.
We start with an advantage, which the right hon. Gentleman, being who he is, has probably spotted, in that we will have exactly the same regulatory basis on the day we leave as the rest of the European Union. That is normally the biggest thing that gets in the way of major trade negotiations. I therefore do not expect the circumstance he describes. I will not offer a view, but simply say this: we will do everything possible to protect, enhance and maximise the opportunities for British business. He can draw his conclusion from that.
Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con)
My right hon. Friend will be aware that sometimes it is very important to pay attention to the liberal elite. He will be aware that, on referendum night, we were told:
“I will forgive no one who does not respect the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken whether it is a majority of 1% or 20%...When the British people have spoken you do what they command…Either you believe in democracy or you don’t.”
Those are the words of Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon in the district of Yeovil in the county of Somerset, who is the most elitist liberal I know, which is saying something. I therefore urge my right hon. Friend to be true to the views of Lord Ashdown, the principles of liberalism and the traditions of this House, and to give effect to the British people’s vote. Seventeen million votes were cast on 23 June for Britain to leave the European Union. Attempts by anti-democratic and illiberal voices on the Opposition Benches to thwart the British people’s will will rightly be treated with disdain.
Mr Davis
The liberal my right hon. Friend mentions is the mentor of my favourite liberal. I have to tell my right hon. Friend that I consider myself to be a liberal Conservative, so I am not entirely sure that I accept his characterisation of the liberal elite, but I take his point that the referendum was the biggest mandate given to a British Government ever. It is our job to carry it out and we will not allow it to be thwarted.
Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)
This summer’s new £5 note is 15% smaller than the old one, but since the referendum the value of the pound in our pocket has shrunk by even more than that because of the Government’s actions. Our constituents did not vote to be poorer. Should not the Secretary of State at least offer an apology?
Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State please clarify for the benefit of Opposition Front Benchers this incredibly simple point: independent countries can trade most successfully with the single market without being a member of the single market?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend is right that more than 20 countries have had more success in growth terms when trading into the single market than we have had in the past 10 or 20 years. He is absolutely right that it is not necessary to be a member of the single market to trade incredibly successfully inside it.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
The press reported over the weekend that hate crime was up following the Brexit vote. In particular, homophobic attacks were up 147%. Given that members of the Secretary of State’s Government and party fostered an atmosphere of division and intolerance, what will they do during the negotiations to ensure that the human rights of everyone in our society are protected?
Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
May I point out, as a director of Vote Leave, that it was made clear in our campaign that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. My right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) made that clear in an interview with Andrew Marr. Is it not ironic that the remain campaign spent a lot of time telling us, “Oh, if you leave the EU you will have to leave the EU internal market.” Now they are all saying that there must be a way of leaving the EU and staying in the single market, even though all the EU leaders say that that is not possible. I do not expect the Secretary of State to say anything instantly now, but is it not a fact that every advantage is to be taken in moving towards a relationship based on mutual recognition, rather than compulsory harmonisation?
Mr Davis
It was my hon. Friend who got me into trouble the last time I made a statement, so I will not offer him a detailed answer. All forms of free trade are beneficial, whether based on mutual recognition, single legal areas or any other free trade mechanism. We will seek to get the best mechanism of free trade that we can, full stop.
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
May I take the Secretary of State back to the article to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) referred? He promised
“a pre-negotiation White Paper”.
He also said:
“I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners.”
Will he update the House and tell us whether the Government are still committed to the pre-negotiation White Paper that he promised, and the countries with which we have triggered trade deals since 9 September?
Mr Davis
If I may say so, that is a slight collapsing of what I said in that article, which I remember very well. The simple truth is that on the day we leave the European Union we will be looking to set up a whole series of very beneficial trade deals. That is an enormous benefit of being outside the Union.
Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
I welcome the statement from my right hon. Friend, and I welcome what the Prime Minister said last week about triggering article 50. As someone who is alleged to have voted to remain in the European Union I take that as a matter of process on which I accept a mandate from the British people on 23 June. As for the detail of the negotiation, that is rather different. May I press my right hon. Friend on what he meant by engagement with Parliament, and whether that is the same as influence? It is one thing to come to Parliament and be engaged and tell Parliament what the Government are doing. It is quite another to come and be engaged and influenced by Parliament on things that we still need to clarify.
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend—my right hon. Friend; I will not hold the allegation against him—makes a very good point. I point to my own history. For a considerable period—four or five years, I think—I negotiated another treaty with the European Union. [Interruption.] It was Amsterdam. The approach was very simple. We did not disclose the upcoming negotiation, but we talked about what was under way and what the priorities were, and that is how I expect this to pan out in future. There will be large numbers of debates in the House, with the first on Wednesday, and even if we did not want to do it— but we will—the Opposition could have as many debates as they liked on the subject. I do not accept the argument that we are simply not going to talk about this.
Second, there will be a Select Committee whose sole job for the few years for which it will exist will be to scrutinise the Department. As far as I can, I will be open with it, but I will not give away things if that is deleterious to the national interest. This is an important point to remember: it is the national interest that is engaged, whether we want to talk about the outcome, or whether we want to get the outcome.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State take steps to achieve an early UK withdrawal from the common fisheries policy, with the re-establishment of Britain’s historic waters, both to rebuild fish stocks in our seas and to revive the British fishing industry?
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman has raised a very important benefit of leaving the European Union, but I cannot promise him an early departure on that issue alone. We will obey EU law, and all the policies that go with it, until the last day we are in the EU. Thereafter, we will get the benefits that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, and they will be very sizeable benefits.
Sir Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend accept from me that it is clear beyond any doubt what the country voted for? He is right to say that our countrymen want to see our country as outward-looking, enterprising and agile, and as a country that will prosper in a very difficult and fraught period in our lives. What will matter, however, is ensuring that our fellow citizens can have absolute confidence in this perilous process, and that Parliament plays its historic role, to which he and I have always attached the most profound importance.
Mr Davis
I pay particular attention to my right hon. Friend’s comments. I know that he was a fierce remainer who fought hard for the cause. He has, however, taken on board the fact that it is now our duty to make the will of the British people come into being in the best possible way. He knows my history, so he must take it as read that I will treat Parliament with respect, but I will not give up the national interest in negotiating terms to that end. I will carry out the balancing act to the best of my ability, and I will leave the judgment of whether that it is good enough with my right hon. Friend.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Can the Secretary of State explain how a margin of 4% in a referendum in which Brexiteers themselves confessed that they had voted to leave for a variety of reasons can become what he has just described as an overwhelming mandate for what the Government are currently doing in respect of a “hard Brexit”, with all the damage that that will entail for our economy and our prosperity?
Mr Davis
The majority was over a million. This was, I think, the largest vote gained by any Government ever. [Interruption.] I assume that the right hon. Gentleman voted “remain”. It is rather rich for someone like him, who voted the other way, to try to be the arbiter and interpreter of those who voted to leave.
First, we must obey the democratic instruction that we were given. Secondly, I strongly challenge the idea that this will somehow cause an economic downturn. It will not: it will create economic opportunities on a major scale, and that is what we look forward to.
Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)
The Government’s negotiating position will leak as soon as other member states are told about it. Does the Secretary of State not recognise that it would be wholly unacceptable for the British public to find out what the United Kingdom’s position is from our counterparts in the negotiations?
Mr Davis
Had the Chairman of the Treasury Committee read my evidence to the Lords Select Committee, he would have seen that I gave an undertaking that this House and the other House would be at least as well informed as democratic institutions on the continent, including the European Parliament. That has never been done before, but it will be done now.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s assurance that he will consult the leaders of devolved Administrations, and I assure him that the leader of our party will work with him to ensure successful negotiations for our exit from the European Union. Will he recognise, however, that the rhetoric that we have heard today about parliamentary scrutiny is really designed to do one of two things—either to overturn the referendum result, or to undermine the negotiating position that the Government would take by continual squabbling in the Chamber about the bottom line? Does he agree that the vast majority of people in the United Kingdom now want the Government to go out and ensure that we have control of our borders, the ability to spend our own money, and the ability to make our own laws?
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman is exactly right. The words that he used were not “52%”, but “the vast majority”. The vast majority of the country wants us to get on with this and to make a success of it, and that is what we will do.
Let me also say to the hon. Gentleman that one of the areas receiving the most attention at the moment is Northern Ireland. We do have issues to resolve on the border, and we will resolve them. We will not return to the old borders—the border style of old. We will maintain the common travel area. Indeed, we will maintain all the benefits that we had in Northern Ireland before we entered the European Union.
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)
Frau Merkel is reported to have been cheered by German industrialists for asserting that Britain will not have access to continental markets unless we are prepared to accept free movement of labour. Will my right hon. Friend tell her that securing our borders was a non-negotiable instruction from the British people? Will he also tell her that if she will not make EU markets available to us, industrialists such as BMW, which has its UK headquarters in my constituency, will not be cheering her if tariffs are imposed on German car imports into the United Kingdom?
Mr Davis
I think Mrs Merkel will have read the Prime Minister’s speech last week and will know exactly where our priorities on the control of borders lie. I will not get into tit-for-tat rudeness with our European opposite numbers, because I do not think that that would be successful. I will say, however, that these are the first days of a two-and-a-half-year negotiation, and the first days of negotiations are always tougher than the endgame —[Interruption.] Well, I speak as someone who has done one or two of them, unlike many of the people chuntering on the Opposition Benches. I think we can take it as read that what our European opposite numbers are saying today is not necessarily what they will be saying tomorrow.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I cannot think of any major treaty in history that this country has signed in which the Government have not come to Parliament to get a mandate for their negotiating position. They have done that every single time over the past 400 years. If the right hon. Gentleman really wants to make a success of these negotiations, he needs to gather as much support as he possibly can across the whole country, including among the 48%. That will involve at least a White Paper and preferably a draft repeal Bill before the final repeal Bill.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
The Secretary of State is absolutely right to seek success, but the question is: what does success look like? What will actually happen when Britain leaves the European Union? Is he thinking of applying any tests along the journey of the negotiations that he feels we might need to meet, particularly in relation to the state of our economy?
Mr Davis
It is hard to have tests along the track of the negotiations; it is the outcome that matters. In response to my opposite number, the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), I highlighted three of the four main aims that we are after. One is to regain control of our borders. Another is to get back control of our laws. The one I did not list was our aim to keep our justice and security arrangements at least as strong as they are. Finally, and most importantly in this context, the United Kingdom must aim to maintain the best possible open access to European markets and vice versa. If we can achieve all that, there will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides.
Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
There seems to be some political forgetfulness here. Does the Minister not recall that the Chancellor has forecast financial bumps along the road? Others fear that they will not just be Brexit bumps, but that a vast sinkhole will open up in the road, into which the British economy will fall in a tailspin. If that Brexit slump occurs, how can the Minister deny the public a second vote on this? Second thoughts are always better than first thoughts, especially as the referendum was conducted on the basis of untruths from both parties. Is he going to honour the pledge to give an extra £350 million a week to the national health service?
Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement. In particular, I liked the section in which he said that he wants to give as much certainty as possible to employers, investors, consumers and workers. Half of St Albans’ economically active population works in London, and many of them work in financial services and the knowledge-based economy. What conduit can they have to input into the process through which we are now going, and what assurances can he give me that London and the UK will maximise free trade with Europe while tapping into the growth markets around the world?
Mr Davis
Given that my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) is sitting next to me, I am bound to say that London is a massive global city and an extraordinarily successful one. We will do everything necessary to protect, defend and enhance that success in the markets that my hon. Friend mentioned—in the financial services, the digital markets and the intellectual markets. We are looking at all of them right across the board. She should tell her constituents who want to have an input into the process that they should go through their trade organisations or come directly to the Department to tell us where their concerns are and where they think the opportunities are and we will take their comments on board.
Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State confirm that the great repeal Bill will include incorporating all the existing rights currently guaranteed by EU law to EU citizens?
Mr Davis
My job in the first instance is to bring that decision back to this House. What I have said to those who have expressed concerns about that matter is that we will certainly not be removing employment rights or employment law from British citizens as a result of bringing back that process. That is the situation: we will not be withdrawing employment rights as a result of this process.
Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
I hope you will forgive me, Mr Speaker, for giving the Ladybird guide to the constitution. Her Majesty’s Government are behaving completely correctly and traditionally. It is for the Government to determine treaties, and it is for Parliament to decide whether to bring them into legislation. If Parliament does not like the Government of the day, it can always hold a vote of confidence in that Government to change the negotiating stance. It seems to me that the Opposition may not want that, as they have a record of losing elections at the moment.
Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)
Days after the Tory party conference, why has the pound dropped to a 30-year low?
Mr Davis
I recommend the hon. Lady reads the book, “Flash Boys”, because the major part of that fall was the flash crash. There are lots and lots of speculative comments that will drive the pound down and up and down and up over the next two and a half years, and there is little that we can do about it.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
May I ask my right hon. Friend to ignore those people on both sides of the House who cannot bring themselves to come to terms with the referendum result? Will he confirm that there are no such things as hard Brexit and soft Brexit? There is either Brexit or no Brexit. It is rather like being pregnant —a person is either pregnant or they are not pregnant. We are either in the European Union or out of the European Union. Being in the single market would mean keeping EU laws and the European Court of Justice making decisions. It would also probably mean free movement of people and paying into the EU budget. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that would be a betrayal of what the British people voted for in the referendum?
Mr Davis
Yes, my hon. Friend is right. That is precisely what is driving our negotiating strategy. Beyond that, I say this to him: the words hard and soft Brexit are designed to deceive. They are not meaningful in any way. We are talking about the best possible trade access. The Labour party does not understand the economics of that, but this party does. We are simply going to get the best outcome for this country, and that will be open trade.
Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State recognise that although 52% of people voted for us to leave, of course with the consequence that we will exit the European Union, the suggestion that the more than 16 million people who voted to remain are some kind of liberal elite is utterly false and divisive? A majority of young voters, a majority of ethnic minority voters and a majority of people in three of the constituent parts of our country all voted to remain, and the job of the Government is to find a deal that serves the interests of everybody—those who voted to remain and those who voted to leave—not to try to sow further seeds of division in our country.
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman will be surprised to hear that I agree with almost every word he said. The only distinction that I would make is that I consider myself a liberal, as I said earlier. The aim of the Government is to find an outcome that meets the needs of all the United Kingdom; again, it is invidious to talk about one’s own speeches, but that is precisely what I said last week. We need to engage the interests of all citizens of the country, whichever way they voted, in order to get the best outcome for the country.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
There has been talk today of vast sinkholes and punishment plans, but surely great nations such as France and Germany act in their own self-interest. Take passporting: what has not been mentioned so far is that 7,000 passports are issued to financial companies in Europe to come into the City of London, and 5,000 passports go in the opposite direction. It is a simple regulatory licensing system, so let us have no more talk about Armageddon for the City of London; a deal can and will be made.
Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)
I have been at a bit of a loose end in the past few weeks, but I have been putting my time to good use: I have been reading the Secretary of State’s back-catalogue. In one of the speeches I found, which I can quote for him, as it is invidious for him to quote himself, he recommended—this was just a few years ago—that we have two referendums on Brexit, the second referendum being held only when the terms of the negotiation were fully formed. Did he change his mind only when he saw the result of the referendum?
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman may have had some time to spare, but he has not used it very well. Indeed, he needs some reading lessons, or maybe reading glasses. Ten years ago—not two years ago; he should get his dates right—when I talked about the possibility of a double referendum, in the early days of our discussions on the matter, I said that we should set up a mandate referendum, laying out exactly what our claims would be, and then if we won that, use it as a lever to get good terms and make a decision thereafter. That is not what the Government did; they put a straight question. If the hon. Gentleman went out on the streets of London and asked people, “What do you think you voted for? Did you vote for a mandate, or did you vote to leave?”, the answer would be that they voted to leave.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
I urge my right hon. Friend to ignore the siren calls from the Opposition for a running commentary on our detailed negotiating position, because as everyone knows, that would make for poor outcomes, and it might account for why Labour got rolled over by the EU on so many occasions, including when it came to the sacrifice of our EU rebate. Will my right hon. Friend say a few words on something that has not yet been covered in the statement or questions—that is, on the growing divide in the EU’s position on Brexit between the ideologists in the Commission and the elected politicians, who recognise that if they play hardball and fall back on tariffs, it will cost them much more than it will cost us?
Mr Davis
I need no urging to ignore the party that, after all, gave us the Lisbon treaty. My hon. Friend is right with respect to the viewpoint of nation states. This will take time to play out. Some nation states, including Germany, are at present very committed to making the punishment arguments, but I think that will change. Other nation states are already making the counter-arguments, and we will see that group grow and grow as the next two and a half years pass.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)
Today at airports, holidaymakers are being offered less than €1 to the pound. My hon. Friends the Members for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) and for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) have asked about the 15% decline in the value of sterling since the referendum, but so far the Secretary of State has failed to answer. We have seen huge uncertainty since our decision to leave the European Union. What efforts will the Government make to provide greater clarity for businesses and the economy, and to ensure that the Government are a little more careful with their words, which would help with the volatility and the sharp declines we have seen in the value of sterling in recent weeks?
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Can my right hon. Friend confirm that if the Bill to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 is blocked in the other place, the Government will not hesitate to use the provisions of the Parliament Acts to ensure that the Bill reaches the statute book?
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will know that the process for exiting the EU will have two steps: first, the article 50 negotiations, which will be by qualified majority voting; and secondly, the negotiation of a new trade deal, which will require unanimity and ratification by all the Parliaments of the EU. Will he guarantee that businesses will have the reassurance, which they desperately need, of a guaranteed transition period, rather than their falling off the cliff edge immediately after the article 50 negotiations conclude?
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, but I am not sure that he is exactly right about the mechanism for the final decision. He talks about what is effectively the next procedure, which is what has happened to the Canadian treaty. We have not yet engaged in the negotiation process, so we do not know exactly how it will work, whether it will be sequential or parallel—well, it will be parallel—and how the linkage between the various components will work. At that point, I will be in a better position to answer his question.
Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to reassure business leaders around the world that, contrary to what is said in some of the commentary, the Government will grasp the opportunity of Brexit to create a low-tax, lightly regulated, open economy that is ready to seize growing economies around the world and create prosperity for our nation?
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (SNP)
I was recently contacted by a constituent who is a lecturer at the University of Glasgow. Not only does she have serious concerns about the loss of EU funding for universities and colleges, but her partner is a French national who is unsure about where his future will lie, post-Brexit. Why can the Secretary of State not understand that the Government’s reluctance to outline any future plans is having a real and negative impact on many people across the UK?
Mr Davis
First, the Treasury has already made some underpinning promises over the summer about research funding, and they apply to Scotland, so I suggest that the hon. Lady looks carefully at that. As for the concerns of her constituent’s French partner, I have already said that we are doing this as fast as we can, consistent with our responsibilities to not only people in that position, but British citizens abroad.
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
I wonder whether my right hon. Friend shares my interest in and gratitude for the fact that the Opposition are speaking the language of markets, currency and the FTSE, and showing incredible interest in that. Speaking of markets, I would like him to assure the House and my constituents that if we were to leave the single market, we would be an open, welcoming, friendly and dynamic free trade area.
Mr Davis
The point that I have made time and again is that we are seeking the most open, most barrier-free trade in goods and services that we can possibly achieve. Like my hon. Friend, I think it is good to hear those words from across the Floor, even if they are not well understood by those saying them.
Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
When will the Secretary of State reassure businesses based in the UK, and particularly in my city of Sunderland, including the Nissan manufacturing plant, about the potential for tariffs to be paid on every car sold to mainland Europe, as some 80% of cars from the Nissan plant are? Investment has been halted at that plant, and a contract that had already been awarded has been put in abeyance while we wait for reassurances from the Government. When will the Government act on real people’s jobs and reassure companies? That is what is at stake. This is not chatter; it is real people’s jobs. When will the Government act?
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)
I very much welcome my right hon. Friend’s statements. Can he say whether, as part of the consideration process, he will look to review the UK’s involvement in the European Commission’s single European sky initiative?
Mr Davis
Yes, the Department for Transport is on that issue as we speak. They were some of the people I was thinking of when I said that there are many areas where we have a very strong negotiating hand because of our current position. Britain is the strongest target, as it were, for flight arrivals in the entire European Union.
Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab)
Many hundreds of people in my constituency working in the automotive and pharmaceutical industries are very worried about the transitional phase between now and when we leave the EU. Decisions are being made by their employers now about investments, and the worry is that those decisions will take investment away from south Liverpool, and put it somewhere else in Europe. What can the Secretary of State do to reassure my constituents, and to reassure those automotive and pharmaceutical businesses about continuing to invest here?
Mr Davis
The first thing I would say is that, if I remember correctly, after the referendum decision, GlaxoSmithKline confirmed multiple hundreds of millions of pounds of investment in this country, so I do not think the pharmaceutical industry is running away from this country—just the reverse. In Europe, the pharmaceutical industry is predominantly in the UK, for reasons that relate to intellectual property among other things. The second thing I would say is that we are consulting widely; one of the things we are doing is establishing where the fears and concerns are, so that we can deal with them. We are doing that accurately and carefully, in exactly the way the hon. Lady would, as I know from her time on the Public Accounts Committee. That, in the long run, will guarantee the jobs of her constituents.
Ben Howlett (Bath) (Con)
As a remainer, let me gently say this to the remainers on the Opposition Benches: scupper or delay triggering article 50 at your peril. Workers will not respect you for it; nor will businesses. We must respect the democratic will of the British people. I appreciate the pragmatism surrounding the decision not to involve Parliament in every single minute detail. However, does the Secretary of State agree that Parliament must, constitutionally, be involved in setting out the principles of negotiation—that is, on single market membership and free movement rules—to ensure that when things like the great repeal Bill are put before this House, they receive full support?
Mr Davis
I always pay a lot of attention to the people who voted remain, and take seriously the responsibility we have to the people of this country to make this work. My hon. Friend laid down a couple of criteria that are very tight in one sense. I am saying, in terms, that we want the best outcome, but what is the best outcome? The best outcome is open market access; that is the point. How we do it may come down to what the negotiations are about, but I cannot go into great detail. However, I would say to my hon. Friend that the process, from now until roughly two to two and a half years’ time, or whenever it is, will be absolutely full of parliamentary events—unless the Opposition are not doing their job, but they will do their job; unless the Select Committee is not doing its job, but it will do its job; and unless we try to block things we are obviously not going to block. We take parliamentary accountability very responsibly and very seriously, and we will keep Parliament as well informed as we can.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
I agree with the Secretary of State that we need barrier-free access to the single market—no tariff barriers and no non-tariff barriers—but we all know there is a tension between delivering that and restricting free movement. On an all-party visit last month, a German employers’ organisation suggested to us that it might be possible to square the circle by agreeing a redefinition of free movement, so that it applied only to people with a firm job offer in the UK. Are Ministers going to pursue that possibility?
Mr Davis
As always, the right hon. Gentleman has asked a serious question, and I thank him for it. My job is to bring back control of these issues to the United Kingdom, which can then exercise that control in the way that Parliament and the Government see fit. What they negotiate thereafter is not a matter for me to speculate on, and I certainly would not offer an opinion on what is or is not a good negotiating hand at this point in time. However, I hear what he says.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
I satisfied my appetite for voting on this question on 23 June, but like my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), I want some influence over the process. However, if influence has to be measured by holding a Division, as Labour Members appear to believe, they might be reminded that they get a Supply day every week.
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has said that he will provide some certainty and clarity. I have had an email from a general practitioner in my constituency saying that a lady who has lived there for over 40 years is having mental health problems as she is concerned about being deported. Parents have contacted me saying that their children are awake at night worried that they are about to lose their mother or their father who is an EU citizen.
Mrs Moon
It is absolutely imperative that we have some clarity. A glib individual on the Government Benches claims I should reassure them. I have done that, but they need reassurance from the Government, because I do not have such a power. May we at least have clarification that those who have lived in this country for over five years will have an automatic right to remain? They need it, and it is only right that citizens should have such clarity.
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
It is perfectly natural for us to want as much detail as possible, but it is more important that the outcome is the success that we need. Does my right hon. Friend therefore agree that we should not tempt him to give details now, but that we should keep as much secret as we can, while our opponents are talking about tariffs and punishments? Should he not do everything he can to play with his cards as close as possible to his chest?
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
Should we not at least commend the Secretary of State for once again presenting us, at the Dispatch Box, with a full range of cosmetics without a single microbead of substance? Does he realise that his reassurances about the consultation with the joint First Ministers in Stormont, and his indication of his hopes for the profile of the border, do not measure up to a response on the profound implications that the course he is piloting will have for the Good Friday agreement, with its delicate layers of understanding, constitutional foundations and key political premises?
Mr Davis
I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman is just wrong. We have already invested a lot of resource in this issue. Indeed, the quotes from the Northern Ireland Secretary on the front page of The Guardian this morning are accurate. We are talking to the Irish Government to determine, as well as we can, a technical mechanism to ensure that we will maintain an open border and underpin the agreement.
Andrew Bridgen
I am disappointed that so many Members of this House—I might politely call them the “unreconcilables”—seem intent on using every ploy of parliamentary procedure to undermine the will of the British people, claiming that it is the democratic right of this House. Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the most important principles of democracy is that everyone’s vote counts the same, and that on 23 June, everyone in the country, including Members of this House, had a vote and the result was clear?
Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)
After the referendum and three days before his appointment, the right hon. Gentleman wrote in an article that a White Paper outlining the negotiating terms for Brexit should be published. Will he please explain to the House his thinking at the time of writing that article?
Mr Davis
The simple answer is this. Throughout the entire referendum campaign, I was trying to think through not so much the retention of the European market, but how we best develop the international markets. Those were my thoughts at that time and, as a Back Bencher, I was entirely entitled to have those thoughts.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
Airbus is a wonderful example of European co-operation. The fuselages are built in France and Germany, and the wings in this country. Does my right hon. Friend agree that any politician or bureaucrat who tried to punish such a project, which has created so much wealth and prosperity and so many jobs, would be mad, bad or totally out of touch with the people they professed to represent?
Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op)
The tone and content of the Home Secretary’s speech to the Tory party conference were profoundly hostile to the recruitment of international students, who are estimated to be worth £40 billion to the economy and represent a valuable growth market. Will the Secretary of State explain whether he backs the Home Secretary, and will he give assurances that in the Brexit negotiation on EU students, he will do nothing to damage their access, our world-class higher education system or the wider economy?
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Is it not the truth that the depreciation of sterling since 23 June has provided a massive boost to Britain’s international competitiveness and has been great news for British exporters? Has my right hon. Friend been encouraged or discouraged by the number of countries knocking on our door, willing to make free trade agreements when we leave the European Union?
Mr Davis
One of the interesting things today has been the willingness of the Opposition to carp on the downside of every single aspect of Brexit. The simple truth is that those who are talking about the competitiveness of their own industries are not paying attention to the level of the pound. While it has some downsides, it certainly has a very large number of upsides.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
As chair of the all-party group on medical research, I am extremely concerned about the impact of Brexit on scientific and medical research in this country. Scientists have always worked collaboratively across borders, but researchers are now worried about funding and about the job insecurity and uncertainty faced by their EU national colleagues. Can the Secretary of State reassure scientists in this country that their research will continue to be funded and that their EU national colleagues will continue to be welcome to work here?
Mr Davis
The Treasury has given underwriting guarantees, as it were, for the current round of applications, so that is not to be worried about. This country is a science superpower, so the idea that after our departure from the European Union funding will somehow dry up is for the birds—it is simply nonsense. I have had discussions with the presidents of some of the royal academies, and we will continue those discussions with the aim of ensuring that they do not feel at risk. Some of the comments we have got back indicate that the European Union rules on issues such as clinical research have not exactly been helpful to British science, so there will be an improvement, not just an underwriting guarantee.
Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)
Many City of London institutions rely on the financial services passport to do business across Europe. Some say that as many as 20% of their jobs depend on that access. The danger is that, as it would take a year or two to relocate staff, some may take action before the end of the two years. To encourage them to keep those jobs here in London, can the Secretary of State give an assurance that financial service passporting or some equivalent mutual recognition is his priority?
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend makes a good point; as there may be something like an 18-month lag, some people might try to pre-empt the decision and, rashly, move early. The Treasury has held a roundtable on this specific issue. It has looked very clearly at various mechanisms of mutual recognition as a fall-back on passporting. Somebody made the point earlier that we issue more passports than we seek. As a result, our negotiating leverage in this area is at least reasonable.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
This is the Secretary of State’s second statement on this issue. Frankly, he would have said more if he had said nothing at all. Can we conclude from his statement today that his definition of “taking back control” is that this sovereign Parliament will get no binding say on the negotiating stance, article 50 or even the final deal? What he said today is that of the 28 current members of the European Union, 27 sovereign Parliaments will get a say, but not this one.
Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)
What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to ensure that the voices of agriculture, industry and business more generally are heard as part of our Brexit negotiations, and to ensure that their needs are fully understood?
Mr Davis
First, there have been a number of consultations and discussions with those people. This whole exercise is an all-Government operation. That means that the individual Departments will deal directly with them. Secondly, the Treasury moved unusually quickly to ensure that they knew that their current round of funding was underpinned, for example under pillar 1 of the common agricultural policy. The Government are taking this matter extraordinarily seriously and they have no reason to worry.
Tom Elliott (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) (UUP)
I thank the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) for coming to my constituency last week to meet businesses in Fermanagh and South Tyrone. I appreciate the Secretary of State’s point about an open border with the Republic of Ireland, given that four counties of the Republic of Ireland border my constituency, but how does he envisage stopping the smuggling that may take place after Brexit?
Mr Davis
That is a very good and difficult question. The simple truth is that we have to make a judgment, as is the case with all borders of that nature. Norway and Sweden have a good example of an open border, as do Canada and America. There are small-scale movements, but big-scale movements can be found and dealt with.
Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)
Writing in The Daily Telegraph following the referendum, the Foreign Secretary claimed that we would still have access to the single market and that the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, and those of UK citizens living abroad, would be respected. If that is no longer the case and the Foreign Secretary was confused, will the Secretary of State clear up these issues in the pre-negotiation White Paper that he promised? Can he tell us when that will be published? If, as the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) suggests, the Vote Leave prospectus is to be the basis of the Brexit negotiations, will he tell us when we will be getting £350 million a week for the NHS?
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)
As the Secretary of State knows, large swathes of EU law are intertwined with devolved legislation in Wales, and indeed in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Will he confirm that in the proposed great repeal Bill, and in their actions thereafter, the UK Government will not interfere with Welsh legislation without the formal—I emphasise formal—consent of the National Assembly?
Mr Davis
I cannot see the great repeal Bill interfering with Welsh legislation, but as I have said, we will talk at length to each of the devolved Administrations about issues that will affect them as a result of the Bill. We will do that before we draft it, let alone before we publish it.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
In their open letter to the Government at the weekend, the CBI and other business leaders said that it was extremely unlikely that the complex negotiations on Brexit would be completed within the two-year period stipulated in article 50. If negotiations have not been completed, what will happen then?
Mr Davis
With the best will in the world, the CBI is hypothesising. The simple truth is that we will have an unusual negotiation, because the standards that apply inside the Union will apply to us on exactly the day when we depart. That is one reason why the great repeal Bill will put the acquis communautaire straight into British law, which will make some of the transition issues quicker to deal with. I will deal with that issue if it arises, but at the moment I do not see it arising.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
Does the Secretary of State not think that his party’s Back Benchers will see the irony that when they walk through the Lobby to enshrine the great repeal Bill in law in a great act of parliamentary sovereignty, they will in fact be enshrining all the hated European regulations that they have campaigned against for so many years?
Does the Secretary of State accept that sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people and not with Parliament, so it is ultimately for the people of Scotland to decide whether they remain in the United Kingdom or the European Union?
Mr Davis
I will make two points to the hon. Gentleman. First, unlike the situation prior to the passage of the great repeal Bill, we will be able to change those European laws. We are not able to do that at all at the moment.
I have forgotten what the hon. Gentleman’s other point was now. [Interruption.] Yes, Scotland. I apologise; I should not have forgotten that. The simple truth is that the decision was UK-wide, and had it gone the other way, he would not be arguing against it.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)
Some UK legislation for workers goes further than EU rules, but not all of it. It is also clear that European Court judgments have been far more worker-friendly than those in our own tribunals, and certainly more friendly than this Government. If the Government seriously intend to protect workers’ rights, they should adopt my Bill, which is intended to maintain EU standards for workers and their employment rights, especially those set out secondary legislation. Failing to do that would leave the door wide open for future Governments to eat into hard-fought and hard-won rights through statutory instruments. The Secretary of State claims to be a champion of workers, so will he consider introducing stand-alone legislation at the earliest opportunity to continue the protection of Britain’s workers?
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
As it stands, the steel and ceramic industries are covered by 52 separate trade defence instruments that the EU provides for this country. In negotiations taking place in conjunction with the Brexit negotiations, the Government wish to support market economy status for China. Which of the 52 trade defence mechanisms does the Secretary of State desire to keep in order to maintain the British steel industry?
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
On Saturday I met a constituent who is a member of academic staff at the University of Nottingham, one of many EU citizens living and working in our city and helping to ensure its future economic success. The Secretary of State says that he wants an outcome to the negotiations that benefits the interests of all UK citizens, and I agree. Does he agree that giving our universities and their EU staff the assurances that they seek is in our best interests—yes or no? If yes, when will he give those assurances?
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
I hope that the whole House will accept the Secretary of State’s sincerity in seeking to avoid what I think he referred to as fostering divisions and creating hostility in our communities. In that context, does he believe it is appropriate for Ministers to refer to EU citizens living in the UK using terms such as “bargaining counters” and “cheap foreign labour”?
Mr Davis
I do not think I have ever referred to them in those terms—in fact, I know I have not. The simple truth is that they are not bargaining counters. One problem that would arise if we divided the two categories of EU citizens here and British citizens abroad would be that we would turn one of them into a bargaining counter, which is precisely what we are avoiding.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
Twelve weeks ago the right hon. Gentleman was a champion of the Back Bencher. Today, he says that there is no role for Back Benchers in deciding on the triggering of article 50 or the terms of the negotiation. He says, however, that he respects the role of Parliament. To show that he has not gone over to the dark side completely, will he confirm that there are no plans to include in his great repeal Bill shortcuts to repealing any protections that currently exist under EU law, and that such a change in law would require the full parliamentary process?
Mr Davis
Certainly any further changes in law will require parliamentary process. On article 50, the right hon. Lady is right that I have fought hard for the rights of Parliament with respect to the Executive, but I would never put Parliament in a position of being in a clash with the British people. That is what an article 50 vote would do.
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
Yesterday on “The Andrew Marr Show”, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), who is not in his place today, said:
“The reason the pound keeps zooming south is that absolutely nobody has the faintest idea what exactly we’re going to put in place”
for the single market. I rather got the impression from the Secretary of State earlier that he did not agree with that statement. If he does not, to what does he attribute the repeated plummeting of the pound since 24 June, and does he agree with the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), who is no longer in his place, that it is a good thing that the pound keeps plummeting?
Mr Davis
It is an unwise Minister, particularly one who is not a Treasury Minister, who passes comment on what the right value of the pound is. There are benefits and disadvantages in movements in either direction. If we look at other countries—it is safer for me to do that—we can see that the euro is widely viewed as being undervalued for the German economy and overvalued for the Greek economy. The hon. and learned Lady can decide for herself which she prefers, but the Greek economy is in a worse state than the German economy.
I do not agree with my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke). There will definitely be very large markets for British industry after we exit the European Union. What the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) has seen on the currency markets has been a response to an article about President Hollande’s comments, massively exacerbated by program trading, which is corrected later on.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
Just today, the British Retail Consortium has said that if we depend on World Trade Organisation rules, we could see price rises of 27% for meat, 16% for clothing and footwear and 14% for Chilean wine. Those are not some theoretical actions, they are price rises in the real world. Will the Secretary of State accept the reality of the damage that would be done by such price rises, and what will he do to ensure that the BRC’s predictions do not become a reality?
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
The Secretary of State may be interested to know that this morning Glasgow City Council launched with its partners a report on Brexit and the Glasgow economy; it is a far more comprehensive report than we received today from him. It has six key asks, among them clarity on long-term funding beyond 2020 for higher education and infrastructure. It also calls for the acceleration of the capital for the city deal for Glasgow. Will the Secretary of State confirm whether he intends to go beyond simply consulting local government on the impact of Brexit, and will he engage and actually respond to the concerns of local government, which is responsible for implementing so much of EU law?
Mr Davis
We will be engaging with local government—including on that report, I imagine. I say this to the hon. Lady, however: beyond 2020 there will be a new EU budget round. As it stands, it is not at all clear that that will be as generous as the current one. I do not think that she should extrapolate based on today’s numbers.
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will be aware of the importance of the life sciences and pharmaceutical industries to our economy. He will also be aware of the comments of the chief executive of AstraZeneca over the weekend, who warned that if we are not part of the European common approvals process the cost of drugs to the NHS will rise. Is the chief executive of AstraZeneca right on that? If so, that is less money for the NHS, so how much does the Secretary of State think that is going to cost us?
Mr Davis
I am not in a position to do those sums for the hon. Gentleman, but I will tell him that that is one of the things that we will seek to get standardised. There will be a number of areas such as life sciences where we have a big interest. We are, after all, the largest life science centre in Europe, so that will be front and centre of our negotiations.
Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
When Carolyn Fairburn of the CBI says that businesses will fear the worst in the event of not knowing the sense of direction of the Government, the Secretary of State should take that seriously. If she has spent the past hour and thirty five minutes listening to his comments she will still be none the wiser about what the Government are trying to achieve with the negotiations. The White Paper that the Secretary of State suggested he would bring forward would be a very good way of providing some certainty to business. He has dodged the question four times, so will he now come to the Dispatch Box and confirm whether it is still his intention to bring forward that White Paper, and if it is not will he tell us why?
Mr Davis
First, I spent some time talking to Ms Fairburn a few weeks ago. She knows what the objectives are, and they are the same as I have given here—that we get the best possible access. I suspect that if she is asked she will say that getting the right outcome is more important than talking about the right outcome. That is what we intend to do.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
As the last man standing, what chance do I have of actually getting anything out of the Secretary of State? He has spent his whole life planning for this big day in the sun, yet he is like a rabbit caught in headlights. Today’s is his second statement, full of bingo buzzwords—“sovereignty”, “control”, “the right deal for Britain”, “mandate”. We have heard it all before and it adds nothing to the argument. One addition we had is “outward-looking”, which is very ironic in the week after the Tory conference. We hear that he cannot give a running commentary on negotiations; last week we got a running commentary on how foreigners are going to be targeted in future, and then he stands there and talks about divisive nationalism. When will he take control, develop a coherent plan and advise this House about what is going to happen, how he will involve the devolved Administrations and how he will protect the rights of EU nationals living here?
Exiting the European Union
David Davis Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Davis)
I thought it would be useful for the House to be brought up to date on the working of my Department after the referendum of 23 June. Our instructions from the British people are clear. Britain is leaving the European Union. The mandate for that course is overwhelming. The referendum of 23 June delivered a bigger vote for Brexit than that won by any UK Government in history. It is a national mandate, and this Government are determined to deliver it in the national interest.
The Prime Minister has made it clear that there will be no attempt to stay in the EU by the back door; no attempt to delay, frustrate or thwart the will of the British people; and no attempt to engineer a second referendum because some people did not like the first answer. The people have spoken in a referendum offered to them by this Government and confirmed by Parliament —by all of us, on both sides of the argument—and we must all respect it. That is a simple matter of democratic politics.
Naturally, people want to know what Brexit will mean. Simply, it means leaving the European Union, so we will decide on our borders, our laws and the taxpayer’s money. It means getting the best deal for Britain: one that is unique to Britain and not an off-the-shelf solution. This must mean controls on the numbers of people who come to Britain from Europe, but also a positive outcome for those who wish to trade in goods and services. This is an historic and positive moment for our nation. Brexit is not about making the best of a bad job; it is about seizing a huge and exciting opportunity that will flow from a new place for Britain in the world. There will be new freedoms, new opportunities and new horizons for our country. We can get the right trade policy for the UK. We can create a more dynamic economy, a beacon for free trade across the world. We want to make sure our regulatory environment helps, rather than hinders, businesses and workers. We can create an immigration system that allows us to control numbers and encourage the brightest and best to come to this country.
I want to be clear to our European friends and allies that we do not see Brexit as ending our relationship with Europe; it is about starting a new one. We want to maintain or even strengthen our co-operation on security and defence. It is in the interests of both the UK and the European Union that we have the freest possible trading relationship. We want a strong European Union, succeeding economically and politically, working with Britain in many areas of common interest, so we should all approach the negotiations to come about our exit with a sense of mutual respect and co-operation.
I know the House will want to be updated about the work of the Department. It is a privilege to have been asked to lead it by the Prime Minister. The challenge we face is exciting and considerable. It will require significant expertise and a consistent approach. Negotiating with the EU has to be got right, and we are going to take the time to get it right. We will strive to build national consensus around our approach.
We start from a position of economic strength. As the Prime Minister said yesterday, there will be challenges ahead, but our economy is robust, thanks in no small part to the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne). The latest data suggest our manufacturing and service industries and consumer confidence are all strong, contrary to some of the earlier predictions. Businesses are putting their faith and their money into this country. Over the summer, SoftBank, GlaxoSmithKline and Siemens all confirmed that they will make major investments in the UK. Countries, including Australia, have already made clear their desire to proceed quickly with a new trade deal for the UK. As other nations see advantages to them, I am confident that they will want to prioritise deals with the UK, too. But we are not complacent. Our task is to build on this success and strength and to negotiate a deal for exiting the European Union that is in the interests of the entire nation.
As I have already indicated, securing a deal that is in our national interest does not and must not mean turning our back on Europe. To do so would not be in our interests, nor Europe’s, so we will work hard to help to establish a future relationship between the EU and the UK that is dynamic, constructive and healthy. We want a steadfast and successful European Union after we depart.
As we proceed, we will be guided by some clear principles. First, as I have said, we wish to build national consensus around our position. Secondly, we will always put the national interest first. We will always act in good faith towards our European partners. Thirdly, wherever possible, we will try to minimise any uncertainty that change will inevitably bring. Fourthly, and crucially, by the end of this process we will have left the European Union and put the sovereignty and supremacy of this Parliament beyond doubt.
The first formal step in the process of leaving the European Union is to invoke article 50, which will start two years of negotiations. Let me briefly update the House on how the machinery of government will support our efforts and on the next steps we will take. First, on responsibilities, the Prime Minister will lead the UK’s exit negotiations and be supported on a day-to-day basis by my Department. We will work closely with all Government Departments to develop our objectives and to negotiate new relationships with the EU and the rest of the world. Supporting me is a first-class ministerial team and some of the brightest and best in Whitehall, who want to engage in this national endeavour. The Department now has over 180 staff in London, plus the expertise of over 120 officials in Brussels. We are still growing rapidly, with first-class support from other Departments.
As to the next steps, the Department’s task is clear. We are undertaking two broad areas of work. First, given that we are determined to build national consensus, we will listen and talk to as many organisations, companies and institutions as possible—from large plcs to small businesses, and from the devolved Administrations to councils, local government associations and major metropolitan bodies.
We are already fully engaged with the Governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to ensure a UK-wide approach to our negotiations. The Prime Minister met the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland in July. Last week, I visited Northern Ireland for meetings with its political leaders, where I reiterated our determination that there will be no return to the hard borders of the past. I will visit Scotland and Wales soon.
My ministerial colleagues and I have also discussed the next steps with a range of organisations. My first meeting was with the general secretary of the Trades Union Congress, followed by key business groups, representatives of the universities and the charitable sector, and farming and fisheries organisations. But that is just the start. In the weeks ahead, we will speak to as many other firms, organisations and bodies as possible—research institutes, regional and national groups, and businesses up and down the country—to establish their priorities and the opportunities for the whole of the UK. As part of that exercise I can announce that we will be holding roundtables with stakeholders in a series of sectors, to ensure that all views are reflected in our analysis of the options for the UK. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Will the right hon. Gentleman resume his seat for just a moment? There is quite a lot of unseemly and, dare I say it, somewhat unstatesmanlike noise from a sedentary position. Someone was muttering, “Too long!” It is not too long at all. The right hon. Gentleman is perfectly in order. Let me remind the House that it has always been my practice to facilitate the fullest and most extensive interrogation of the relevant Minister, and that will happen today. Everyone will have his or her opportunity. But it would be a good thing if people would listen respectfully. If they can manage a beaming countenance reminiscent of that of the Foreign Secretary that will be a bonus, but it is not obligatory.
Mr Davis
Those roundtables will include stakeholders from the broadcast, aviation, energy, financial services and automotive sectors, and others.
I will also engage with EU member states. I am beginning with a visit to Dublin this week. I am working particularly closely with the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State for International Trade, who have been meeting counterparts in Washington, Brussels and Delhi, and in the capitals of other EU states. While we do that, my officials, supported by officials across Government, are carrying out programme of sectoral analysis and regulatory analysis, which will identify the key factors for some 50 sectors of British business. It is extremely important that the House understands that. We are building a detailed understanding of how the withdrawal from the EU will affect domestic policies, to seize opportunities and ensure a smooth process of exit.
The referendum result was a clear sign that the majority of the British people want to see Parliament’s sovereignty strengthened, and so throughout the process Parliament will be regularly informed, updated and engaged.
Finally, we are determined to ensure that people have as much stability and certainty as possible in the period leading up to our departure from the EU. Until we leave the European Union, we must respect the laws and the obligations that membership requires of us. We also want to ensure certainty when it comes to public funding. The Chancellor has confirmed that structural and investment fund projects signed before the autumn statement and research and innovation projects financed by the European Commission by money granted before we leave the EU will be underwritten by the Treasury after we leave. Agriculture is a vital part of the economy and the Government will match the current level of annual payments that the sector receives through the direct payments scheme until 2020, again providing certainty.
The Prime Minister has been clear that she is determined to protect the status of EU nationals already living in the UK. The only circumstances in which that would not be possible would be if the rights of British citizens in EU member states were not protected in return, something that I frankly find very hard to imagine.
I am confident that together we will be able to deliver on what the country asked us to do through the referendum. I am greatly encouraged by the national mood. Most of those I have met who wanted to remain have accepted the result and now want to make a success of the course Britain has chosen. Indeed, organisations and individuals I have met already who had backed the remain campaign now want to be engaged in the process of exit and in identifying the positive changes that will flow from it as well as the challenges. I want us all to come together as one nation to get the best deal for Britain.
In conclusion, we are confident of negotiating a new position that will mean this country flourishing outside the European Union while keeping EU members as friends, allies and trading partners. We leave the European Union but we will not—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) is an aspiring statesman. His aspiration may be a little way from fulfilment. I want to hear the Secretary of State’s peroration.
Mr Davis
It is an aspiration of very long standing, Mr Speaker.
In conclusion, we are confident of negotiating a position that will mean this country flourishing outside the EU, keeping its members as our friends, our allies and our trading partners. We will leave the European Union but will not turn our back on Europe. We will embrace the opportunities and freedoms that will open up for Britain. We will deliver on the national mandate for Brexit, and we will deliver it in the national interest.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new role. It is eight years since his last appearance at the Dispatch Box. Back then, I believe his last words were: “You have to answer.” Let us hope that he gives us some answers today.
I welcome the attitude he has expressed today that he will be talking and listening to everyone. May I give him some advice? Perhaps he should start by putting a telephone number on his website. It has been a little difficult tracking his Department down, so it would be nice if he could begin by giving that out later, along with some of the answers that we would expect. The spin before today’s statement was so much promise. We heard that we would hear what the Government’s strategy for Brexit is, but instead we have not heard a strategy or a thought-out plan. It has been more empty platitudes from a Government who continue to make it up as they go along.
Last night, the Prime Minister, who was on a plane, seemingly told us what she was not going to do—it seems that we will not have a points-based immigration system, any extra money for the NHS or a reduction in VAT on fuel—but we have not been told what the Government will do. When will they tell us how they will deliver, for example, free trade for British businesses while imposing immigration controls, let alone how they will address the red lines that Labour has demanded on the protection of workers’ rights and guarantees for EU citizens?
The Secretary of State says that he wants to present a positive vision of Britain post-Brexit, but unless he can tell us what deal the Government are working towards, how they plan to achieve it and whether other member states will accept it, his positive vision is just a pipe dream. It is just rhetoric.
May I remind the Secretary of State of what he said two months ago? He said:
“The negotiating strategy has to be properly designed, and there is some serious consultation to be done first…This is one of the reasons for taking a little time before triggering Article 50.”
We absolutely should take a little time before triggering article 50, but where is the negotiating strategy and what serious consultation has taken place with other member states? In the absence of either, why are the Government pushing ahead with article 50? What has happened since July? What is the plan?
May I remind the House what the Foreign Affairs Committee said in July about the previous Government? It said:
“The previous Government’s considered view not to instruct key Departments…to plan for the possibility”
of a leave vote “amounted to gross negligence.” What do we say about the current Government when, two months later, we are no further forward? Surely all we can say is this: when it comes to planning for Brexit, they have gone from gross negligence to rank incompetence. We see the warnings to Britain from Japan and others at the G20, and we see investment from companies like Nissan put under threat. It is British workers who will pay the price for the Government’s incompetence.
This morning, the Japanese ambassador, speaking on the “Today” programme, said something that was as honest as it was deadly. He said: “The problem that we see is not to have a very well thought through consideration before you start negotiation.” He is absolutely right. Are the Government rushing to start negotiation? Yes. Do they have a well thought-out plan for that negotiation? No.
The Secretary of State has won plaudits in the past for his principled stand on issues such as parliamentary sovereignty—indeed, he talked about the importance of parliamentary sovereignty today—democratic rights and the rule of law, so surely he cannot think it right that article 50 should be triggered by royal prerogative. As his friend and mine, the former Attorney General the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), said:
“The idea that a government could take a decision of such massive importance…without parliamentary approval seems to me to be extremely far-fetched.”
Well, I do not think it is far-fetched; I think it is just plain wrong. And I think that if the Secretary of State was still on the Back Benches, he would agree with me.
When there is no evidence of sound planning by the Government, no detail on the deal they want to strike, no strategy for achieving that deal or the reasons for pushing it through, Parliament must have more of a say. We must have more than simply a say: we must have a vote.
Mr Davis
I thank the hon. Lady for her welcome. As I suspect is very common when people enter the Cabinet, I have received a very large number of congratulatory emails and telegrams. The best one was the shortest. It said, “Many congratulations, I now believe in the resurrection.” Let me deal with the measures she has raised.
The hon. Lady and the Labour party accuse us of rank incompetence—the Labour party! The Prime Minister, on her trip to China, described her approach to complex problems—this is certainly a complex problem. Her approach is to collect the data, analyse it, make a judgment, make a decision and implement it. The Labour party clearly does it the other way around. The Americans have a phrase for the way the Labour party approaches these things—not looking at the problem, not looking at the issue, not looking at the data. They call it “load, fire, aim”. That may be very appropriate for the circular firing squad that is the Labour party, but it is not appropriate to running things in the national interest.
The hon. Lady mentioned the points-based immigration system. What the Prime Minister said in China was very clear. She wants a results-based immigration system that delivers an outcome the British people voted for. That is what she will be delivering at the end of this.
The hon. Lady mentioned the Japanese ambassador. From memory, the Japanese ambassador this morning said something to the effect that he had not met a company that did not think Britain was the best place in Europe to have its business—not one. He also said that he admired the Prime Minister’s approach to the negotiation. The hon. Lady should pick her quotes a little more carefully.
Let me come to the hon. Lady’s central point, if there was a point in what she had to say. She talked about article 50. Before we entered on to this course, the referendum Bill went through this House. It was voted for 6:1 in this House, and she voted for it. What did the Bill say? It was presented by the then Foreign Secretary, who said that we were giving the British people the right to make the decision—it was not advice or consultation. What she is trying to wrap up in a pseudo-democratic masquerade is the most anti-democratic proposal I have heard for some time. She wants to deny the will of the British people and up with that we will not put.
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s return to the Front Bench. As someone who recently left it—voluntarily, I have to tell him—I unreservedly welcome him. I also welcome his incredibly optimistic tone on the whole idea of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union and forging a new relationship with the rest of the world.
On the specifics of the statement—[Interruption.] The one specific is that we are leaving the European Union. On that specific, I wonder if I might press my right hon. Friend. In the media today, we have had a certain amount of speculation on the detail in terms of controlling our borders. Will he confirm that, in leaving the European Union, the No. 1 thing that is absolutely not negotiable is that the United Kingdom will take control of its borders and the laws relevant to that and that that is not negotiable in any other deal?
Mr Davis
I thank my right hon. Friend for his question, and I would say two things. First, the referendum provided the biggest mandate ever given to a British Government, and the question of immigration clearly played a large part. Secondly, the Prime Minister has made it very plain that the current state of immigration cannot go on and that we will bring it to an end as part of this process.
Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new position and congratulate him on it. I want to ask him, “Was that it?” The Secretary of State has had all summer, and it has to be said that it is a mark of an irresponsible Government, just as it was a mark of an irresponsible leave campaign, that we know nothing more about the phrase “Brexit means Brexit”. That creates huge levels of uncertainty for our universities and our research institutions, which need some certainty beyond 2020; For food and drink producers; and for EU nationals who have made this country their home and deserve much better. What reassurances can the Secretary of State give them, because he has given them precious little from his statement today?
The actions of this Government stand in stark contrast to those of the Scottish Government, who have reached out to EU nationals and set out a clear action, including setting up an expert group; who have provided £100 million- worth of economic stimulus, with more to come tomorrow and a programme for government. The Secretary of State was responsible for a leave campaign that had no plans—zero, zilch. That is in stark contrast to the 670-page White Paper that the Scottish Government produced ahead of the independence referendum. Does the right hon. Gentleman regret not having any more plans, especially now that the Prime Minister is slapping down some of the leave campaign’s ideas and the Foreign Secretary is referring to access to the single market? Does the Secretary of State regret that blank piece of paper?
Mr Davis
I am tempted to say “Is that it?” too. The simple truth is this. The hon. Gentleman talks about a 670-page White Paper for the Scottish independence referendum, which I remind him they lost—and they would still lose today. After the Brexit referendum, what did we see? Do the Scottish people want another referendum? No, they do not. Would they vote to leave? No, they would not. That is all I need to say to the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Con)
I understand my right hon. Friend’s difficulties, and I congratulate him on not rushing anything. I encourage him and his colleagues to take as long as they possibly can to work out a policy. I look forward to hearing from him again when the Government have found something they can agree on that indicates what Brexit actually means. Meanwhile, on a more positive note, I do not recall my right hon. Friend taking part in any of the ill-informed and sometimes prejudiced attacks on immigrants and foreigners living and working in this country. Does he agree with me that, although some anti-foreigner rhetoric might have added a few votes that might have tilted the leave campaign into gaining a majority, the majority of the public are not hostile to other Europeans living and working in this country, so long as they respect our laws and our customs? Will he confirm that the Government will not needlessly sacrifice our access to a free market of 500 million people or our trade and economic co-operation with our European allies just to demonstrate that we are turning away from this country foreigners whom employers wish to employ to fill skills shortages or as a result of the unwillingness of English people to fill vacancies in various parts of our economy?
Mr Davis
My right hon. and learned Friend and I have debated this matter probably for nearly 30 years. Let me say this on the issue of anti-foreigner rhetoric. I agree entirely that the sort of unpleasantness that has sometimes arisen is to be wholly condemned—I repeat, wholly condemned. I certainly join my right hon. and learned Friend in condemning that rhetoric.
However, my right hon. and learned Friend then moved on to the issue of immigration. I do not think that when people are concerned about immigration, it is necessarily xenophobia. Economic, social and other pressures lead to people’s concern about the issue. Nor do I think that it is a simple trade-off. I do not think that an immigration control system that suits our country is necessarily one that will preclude a good trade relationship with the European Union. Trade relationships are beneficial to both sides, and we should not need to make a policy purchase in order to secure such a relationship. So, while I agree with my right hon. and learned Friend’s original proposal, I do not agree with his conclusion.
Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
As the Secretary of State will know, the business of his Department will be the most important issue that has faced our country for decades, and it is hugely important that we secure the best deal for Britain outside the European Union. No one expects him to have worked out all the answers yet, but we do expect him to be able to set out the outline of some kind of plan, and today we have heard nothing of that sort.
Let me ask the Secretary of State just one specific question. Has his Department even considered what the home affairs issues will be in the negotiations, and has he decided whether or not Britain will be staying in Europol? That decision will have to be made this year, not in many years to come. Has he decided whether we will be in Europol, yes or no?
Mr Davis
The right hon. Lady was an eminent member of the Cabinet, and, indeed, an eminent Front-Bench Member and shadow Home Secretary. I therefore take her question extremely seriously, as she does this issue. The simple answer is that the whole justice and home affairs stream is being assessed even as we speak, and the aim is to preserve the relationship with the European Union on security matters as best we can. The right hon. Lady will recall that last year a decision was made which laid aside about 100 measures that we did not want to be part of, but kept some others, including the European arrest warrant and one or two others—controversially, as she will remember. So yes, of course we are across that, and of course we are aiming to maintain it. That is the answer.
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
I warmly congratulate my right hon. Friend on his return to the Government Front Bench after an unfortunate hiatus of some 20 years. Is it not absolutely clear that he has both the skills and the experience that are required for the extremely difficult job that lies ahead? Surely the whole House will wish him every success as he charts those extremely difficult shoals.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
We learned more of substance from the Prime Minister’s briefing of journalists in China than we heard in those 15 minutes of talk about stakeholders and round tables. Will the Secretary of State please confirm that the points-based immigration system, the cut in VAT on fuel, and the £350 million extra every week for the NHS—the three main promises of the leave campaign—now lie in tatters?
Mr Davis
The task of my Department is to deliver on three things. The British people, in the referendum, voted for the return to Parliament of control of our laws, control of our money, and control of our borders, and that is what my Department will bring about. What happens then is down to the Government and Parliament.
Let me deal with just one issue that the right hon. Gentleman raised: the points-based immigration system. What the Prime Minister said in China was very clear. Her concern was that a points-based system was too open-ended and did not actually control the number of people coming to the United Kingdom, and she therefore wanted something that sounded as if it would be more rigorous, not less.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
As 47 countries have free trade agreements with the EU without accepting any EU control over migration in their countries or making any contributions to the EU, will my right hon. Friend confirm that taking back control cannot be negotiated with the French, the Germans and the others: we take back control of those matters and we negotiate, if they wish, over trade? Will he further confirm that the French and German Governments have indicated not at all that they wish to impose any tariffs on their very profitable trade with us, because they do not believe in self-harm?
Mr Davis
That last point goes to the heart of the question. Free trade is not something that is a gift from one country to another; it is something that is mutually beneficial. I fully expect that when we come to do our negotiations with the EU we will see it recognising that France, Germany—in fact, every single country—has a manufacturing surplus delivered to us, whereas we, typically, have a service surplus the other way. I expect that we will both gain from the free trade agreement that comes out of that negotiation.
Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his place. I also welcome today’s statement and the visit he made recently to Northern Ireland, when he met the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and others. Can he reassure us that, as we seek to move forward and make a success of Brexit for the whole of the United Kingdom, which is what the British people in their entirety have voted for—all parts of it—[Interruption.] As a result of this national vote—all members of the United Kingdom had an equal vote and voted overwhelmingly to come out of the European Union—can the Secretary of State make it clear that he will work closely with Ministers in Northern Ireland? Will he also make it clear that that work will not just be at ministerial level, but that officials in his Department will work very closely with officials in the Executive Office, the Department of Finance and Personnel and the Department for the Economy and others, to ensure we make a success of this project?
Mr Davis
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that that is already happening. Officials in my Department and other Whitehall Departments are working with officials in the Northern Ireland Office to proceed on what will actually be one of the more difficult elements of the negotiation, because we do have to deal with the issue of the border, keeping it open and not returning to the recent past. I also agree in some depth with his statement that this is a national decision—that the whole British nation, the whole United Kingdom nation, has decided on this. Whilst we will seek—I look at the Scottish nationalist Benches when I am saying this—to meet and protect the interests of every part of the UK, that does not mean any part of it will have a veto on this, least of all for partisan reasons.
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his responsibilities and further welcome his agreement to appear before the Foreign Affairs Committee next week in order to provide further follow-up to this statement. Does he share my assessment that there is a key foreign affairs, security and defence interest for our 27 EU partners in finding continuing engagement with the UK after Brexit?
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee is right, and this is fundamental to one of the points I was making in my earlier remarks. There are very strong security, foreign affairs, foreign policy and environmental relationships, and a whole series of other relationships, that will continue to apply long after we have left the EU, to the benefit of both the EU and the UK.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)
I warmly welcome the Secretary of State to his new position and I know that millions of Labour voters and supporters across the country who voted to leave will be pleased that there is someone in this position who genuinely wants to get out of the EU. Will he confirm that there is a real difference between wanting to be members of the single market and wanting to have access to the single market, and that some of the remainers should learn that?
Mr Davis
The hon. Lady is right, and of course access to the single market is not really up for grabs; it is there for everybody and, frankly, there are many countries outside the EU that do a better job of exporting to the single market than we do, even without a trade arrangement. So of course we want to have access to the single market and we do not need to be a member of it to do that. Indeed being a member of it is what has caused some of the problems of sovereignty that drove this referendum.
Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)
Congratulations to my right hon. Friend on his appointment. Will he confirm that the vote to leave requires the repeal of the European Communities Act 1972, and will the Government bring in a Bill to achieve that as soon as is reasonably possible?
Mr Davis
The aspects of the European Communities Act 1972 that are required to be repealed and the aspects of the acquis communautaire that need to be carried into British law are an important joint set of issues that have to be decided. Once we have got to the point of deciding what we need to do in that regard, we will come back to the House at the first possible opportunity.
Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)
But do we not need more specifics from the Secretary of State? For example, do we not need to know that we can build new relationships without having to wait until the divorce proceedings have finished? Jean-Claude Juncker said this weekend that he did not like the idea of our negotiating trade arrangements, but would it not leave us in limbo if we could not do so? It is essential that we have the ability to get on with building these new relationships now. That means dealing with the Brexit issue while at the same time, in parallel, ensuring that we can forge those new relationships. Those two things have to happen together, not one after the other. How is the Secretary of State going to achieve that?
Mr Davis
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Indeed, the suggestion from the Commission that it is somehow illegal for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and talk to Ministers in India, Canada, Australia or wherever he is going next is somewhat ridiculous. The only thing the Commission can say in legal terms is that we cannot bring an agreement into force until after we leave, and that is perfectly fair and proper. That is what the laws of the European Union are. The hon. Gentleman can take it as read that we are looking to ensure the fastest possible transition to the opportunities I mentioned after Brexit concludes. Similarly, on the other front, there have been suggestions that we cannot talk about the trade arrangement with Europe until the article 50 process has concluded and we are outside the European Union. That, too, is nonsense. I have looked carefully at several different versions of article 50 in different languages, and they all refer to the parallel negotiations that will need to take place, so the hon. Gentleman can take it as read on both those counts that he is right and that we are pursuing the matter.
Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment and wish him well in his historic task. Many industries and everyday activities depend on European regulation, but there is some uncertainty being stirred up about the future of the law. Further to his reply to the Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash), can he confirm that the Government are going about establishing the entire corpus of European law and all the detail of the acquis communautaire, following the path set by countries such as India and Australia when they took on full independence and converted the whole of British law into their national law and then, in subsequent years, repealed, filleted or improved upon it?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend makes a good point. This is one of the reasons that the process is taking some time. The legal interactions of certain elements of the acquis communautaire and British law are not straightforward. My starting position was that we would put them all into the law and take it from there, but it does not quite work like that. That is why this is taking a little while, but my right hon. Friend can be sure that my legal section and the Whitehall lawyers are on that issue as we speak and will come up with conclusions as quickly as they can. When they do so, I will tell the House what their conclusion is.
Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
Scottish fishing communities were due to receive more than €100 million of European maritime and fisheries fund support between now and 2023. The Secretary of State has committed to supporting our agricultural communities by guaranteeing that CAP funding will be matched until 2020. Will he make a similar commitment today to our fishing communities to honour the maritime and fisheries funding that has been allocated in the current round?
Mr Davis
Sadly, I did not make that commitment. The Chancellor made the commitment and—[Interruption.] With great respect, it is not for me to make commitments on behalf of the Treasury. We will place in the Library a copy of the letter in which the Chancellor laid out the underpinning of the CAP, structural and science funds and so on. He made it clear that that was effectively his decision until the autumn statement. I will report to him what the hon. Lady said so that he is at least aware of her concerns before that statement.
Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)
A legitimate concern of many remain voters, and one which many of us on the leave side can well understand, is that an unduly long period of uncertainty while negotiations are ongoing would be damaging to the British economy. Will my right hon. Friend therefore confirm that it will be his priority to complete the process as soon as possible, that the two-year limit set down in article 50 is an arbitrary maximum, not a necessary minimum, and that most countries that have obtained independence or left a political union—India, Canada and Australia or the Czech Republic and Slovakia—have done so in far less than two years?
Mr Davis
I defer to my right hon. Friend’s knowledge of the history of those other countries. The Prime Minister has said that we will not trigger article 50 until the new year. The reason is not unnecessary delay or the wasting of time; it is to ensure that we get all the decisions absolutely right. Mr right hon. Friend has heard over the past few minutes about some of the complexities involved in the acquis communautaire alone. We will trigger article 50 as soon as is reasonably possible. I would rather be a month late and get it right than be a month early and get it wrong. We will do it as expeditiously as possible. The Prime Minister has said clearly that she thinks the British people expect us to get on with it.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)
Unravelling 40 years of close co-operation within the European Union with now 27 nation states is, as the right hon. Gentleman is learning if he did not know before, a complex issue. Does he intend to give the House some ongoing view of how that is going? Will he provide some assurance on issues such as workers’ rights? Will we keep the principle of equal pay for work of equal value? Will the EU laws that guarantee our pension payments as though they are deferred wages still be recognised by this House?
The right hon. Gentleman talks about the sovereignty of Parliament. Will he give this Parliament more of a say on the deal that is done? Do his Government intend to give the British people a say on the deal when it is finally done?
Mr Davis
I will start by saying that we got our instructions from the British people to do this in the first place, but the hon. Lady raises some serious issues. My views on the importance of parliamentary accountability have not changed just because I have moved forward four Benches. I still believe that we should be as open with Parliament as possible while in negotiations. For example, I am appearing before the Foreign Affairs Committee in a week or two’s time, which is an undertaking that I made some time ago, and I am doing the same with the relevant House of Lords Committee.
As for employment rights, a large component of the people who voted to leave the European Union could be characterised as the British industrial working class. It is no part of my brief to undermine their rights—full stop.
Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new role. He is absolutely right that we must respect the result of 23 June and that people want further controls on immigration and do not have confidence in our previous immigration policy. I do not know whether it was deliberate, but two words seemed to be missing from his statement: single market. The heart of the matter, about which we will be arguing over the coming months and years, is the balance between access to the single market and the freedom of people to come to this country. When will the Government set out their view on that fundamental point?
Mr Davis
I am afraid that I start from a disagreement with my right hon. Friend; the simple truth is that, as I said earlier, the negotiation over free trade with the European Union will be to the benefit of both sides—it will be beneficial to us and to the European countries. The question of immigration and the control of immigration is a very high priority for this Government, as the Prime Minister has made plain on many occasions. I do not agree with the fundamental tenet of my right hon. Friend’s question; I do not think that that is a natural, necessary trade-off. The negotiation has to be very much about what is to the mutual benefit of this country and the European Union—full stop.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
Forty-five Japanese companies operate in Wales, supporting some 6,000 jobs, mainly in tech and manufacturing. Manufacturing alone is worth £9 billion to the Welsh economy. What assurances can the Secretary of State give those workers and those companies that Wales-Japan relations and the Welsh economy will not be harmed by Brexit?
Mr Davis
It is the same assurance I give to all manufacturing operations in the United Kingdom: the aim of this negotiation is to deliver the best trade opportunity that we can. That includes getting the best arrangement with the European market and exploiting the best arrangements with other, non-European markets. I will make a point to the hon. Gentleman on manufacturing alone: the quantity of exports we make to the European Union is exceeded by the exports we make to those countries with which we have no free trade agreement at all. Once we get a free trade agreement, or many free trade agreements, as the Secretary of State for International Trade will do—I shall not steal his thunder—we will not see downsides; we will see opportunities.
Several hon. Members rose—
Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his long overdue return to ministerial office. In the seven short weeks he has been in office, alongside our new Foreign Secretary and our new Secretary of State for International Trade, we have seen a record increase in service industries growth, a record increase in manufacturing industry growth and a 3.3% increase in motor car sales. We have also seen the Speaker of the US Congress, the Prime Minister of Australia and the Prime Minister of New Zealand all pressing for free trade deals with this country, while the Deputy Chancellor of Germany has acknowledged that the EU-US trade deal is dead in the water. Does that not confirm that the 17 million people in this country who voted to leave the European Union know a darned sight more about economics than the members of the International Monetary Fund, the OECD and the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and all these other soi-disant “experts” who have oeuf on their face?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend is not known for understating his case, but I would point out that it was 17.5 million people who made that judgment. He is right: much of the gloom and doom and fearmongering that went on before the referendum has been proven to be wrong. That said, I would not be quite so unalloyed in my optimism as he is, because of course we are in a world where there are a lot of economic pressures. That is why the meetings in China are taking place now. He makes his point brilliantly, as always, and I agree with its main thrust, but let us not get too optimistic before we close the deal.
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State said that he wants to have the supremacy of this Parliament. If we are a sovereign, supreme Parliament, why is this Parliament not going to have the decision as to when we trigger article 50?
Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con)
First, may I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his complete and abysmal failure over a 10-year period to avoid high office? It is a great pleasure to see him in his place. May I also reassure him that as somebody who supported the remain campaign, I see it as my absolute duty to support the Government in giving effect to the public desire to leave the European Union, including supporting the Government in their implementation of article 50? He rightly pointed out that the matter is legally extremely complex. It also concerns, as he rightly said, the acquis communautaire, which is about the conferring of private legal rights on individuals in this country which have the force of statute. I have to say to my right hon. Friend that the idea that those should simply be revoked by our exit without parliamentary approval troubles me very much and appears to me to be an abdication of the responsibility of this House. I accept that in many cases they have been created by Henry VIII clauses, which was the unsatisfactory nature of the EU, but what we will now do if we cannot scrutinise them before article 50 is invoked is allow the Government to dispose of private property rights, including intellectual property as an example, by decree. That troubles me very much, and I ask him to use his ingenuity to find ways of resolving this particular dilemma.
Mr Davis
It is a pleasure to hear from my right hon. and learned Friend and long-term friend, but he is over-interpreting what I have said, I think. Article 50 is the beginning of this process; it is not the end. I know there will be many opportunities for this House to scrutinise what we are about to do after article 50 takes place, but it would be somewhat futile to do so before we start the negotiations, as some of those negotiations will have a direct impact on the very rights that he is talking about. He can take it from me that I did not spend all those years on the Back Benches defending those rights to give them up now.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State agree that it would be a good idea to try to find some way of maintaining a form of co-operation on foreign policy after we leave the European Union, because even after exit we will still very much be part of Europe, and there are a great number of challenges around the world on which we will have to continue to work with our European neighbours?
Mr Davis
The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The tradition of this country in maintaining strong effective alliances generally for good in the world at large is one that I fully expect will continue. Indeed, one aspect of the picture of the future that I see is that Britain will continue to be a good global citizen, as it always has been. Co-operation on foreign policy is very much a part of that.
Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)
May I add my congratulations to my right hon. Friend; it is good to see him back in his natural habitat at the Dispatch Box. Businesses in the UK are concerned not just about access to the single market, but about other matters. A unitary patent and the proposed new Unified Patent Court has been eagerly anticipated by businesses, which currently have to file for separate patents in separate countries at great cost. The UK was due to ratify that later this year alongside Germany and one other country. Will my right hon. Friend give businesses the undertaking that the UK will ratify this agreement before the end of this year and that we will continue to play a full part so that British businesses benefit from being able to be part of a larger unified patent authority?
Mr Speaker
May I gently ask the Secretary of State to face the House? Sometimes his answers are not fully heard. They are heard by the person at whom he is looking, but not by the House.
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab)
May I congratulate the Secretary of State on his return to the Front Bench and, on behalf of all those Labour constituencies that voted to leave, thank him for his statement and for making the control of our borders the cornerstone of any renegotiation? May I take him back to the question from the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood)? Given Europe’s huge trade surplus with us, how does the Secretary of State think that power position will play out when we are talking about membership of or access to the single market?
Mr Davis
It is early days to forecast the negotiation, but the right hon. Gentleman is right—there is a large trade surplus. The one that was cited time and again during the referendum campaign, which I do not want to revisit, was the surplus in cars from Germany alone, for example. With countries of the European Union facing economic difficulties, I do not think they will want to create problems for themselves by creating bilateral arrangements that hurt them, so the way I think it will play out is that over the period concerned—probably a couple of years or so—people will start to focus on what their own national interest is. My experience of the European Union is that the Commission makes a great deal of public statements, but at the end of the day the national interest of individual countries decides the outcome.
Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)
Can the Secretary of State confirm that as the UK will want to be able to negotiate new trade deals with the rest of the world and has created a Department for that very purpose, it will not be able to remain a member of the customs union?
Mr Davis
I am pleased to be asked a question by my right hon. Friend. I spent the weekend reading his draft for Open Europe. I did not agree with everything in it, but, as always with him, what he has to say was insightful and wise. I recommend that people read pages 10, 11 and 12 if they do not have a lot of time.
My right hon. Friend has a good point on the customs union. Membership of a customs union puts restrictions of varying degrees on what countries can do outside. It would put restrictions on what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is doing, so we have to look at the matter carefully. There is a range of different types of customs union, but that is exactly the sort of decision that we will resolve before we trigger article 50.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
Last week the Secretary of State visited Northern Ireland, where he met political and business leaders, and this week he will visit Dublin. Although it is true that the desire for a continued open border in Ireland is shared by many, does he recognise that maintaining an open border in Ireland will require agreements between Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels? What steps has he taken to ensure that such an agreement will be possible?
Mr Davis
It will primarily require an agreement between London, Belfast and Dublin. Brussels will have a say in some respects, but it is down to us. When I was in Northern Ireland last week, everybody was absolutely clear—all sides, with no political divide and no division of any sort—on the need for an open border and the need to avoid a return to the days of the hard border. There are other open borders, which we will be studying. One of them is Norway/Sweden, but it is not identical. Of course, there was an open border before either of us was a member of the European Union, and we had the common travel area before we were members of the European Union, so there are ways to deal with the issue. Some of them may be technological and some may be political. We and, I think, the Irish Government and all the political parties in Belfast are committed to making sure that it happens.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)
I, too, welcome my right hon. Friend to his place on the Front Bench, and I, too, accept the verdict of the British people—some 52% of whom voted for us to leave the European Union. Yesterday the Japanese Government produced a 15-page document, very unusually, being very bold about their assessment of the grave dangers, as they see it, of Brexit. They laid it out in some detail. Of course, there are many who would argue that if we retain our membership of the single market, we can allay their fears, especially in relation to the financial services sector and the automotive sector. With great respect to my right hon. Friend, I think we need some clarity now about where we see our membership of the single market. Is he saying that this Government are prepared to abandon that membership of the single market?
Mr Davis
I am saying that this Government are looking at every option, but the simple truth is that if a requirement of membership is giving up control of our borders, then I think that makes that very improbable. What we are looking for, in the words of the Prime Minister, is a “unique solution” that matches the fact that we are one of the largest trading countries in the world, and also a very large market for very large parts of very important industries in the European Union. I find it very difficult to believe that over the course of the next couple of years or so we will not be able to find an outcome that satisfies not just our own industries but those sponsored by Japan as well.
Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)
A significant reason why my constituency voted to leave was immigration and free movement of labour, so may I ask the Secretary of State whether, at the end of this process, under no circumstances will free movement of labour be allowed? He said that the Government will bring the current rate of immigration to an end. What does that mean?
Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)
My constituency voted more decisively than the country for Brexit, so my constituents will welcome the Prime Minister’s and the Secretary of State’s clear view that we are going to leave and do so decisively. However, businesses in my constituency will also want to get the right result for their exports, so they will welcome the thoughtful and careful approach set out by the Secretary of State. I urge him to continue that careful approach to make sure that we get this right, not rush to make decisions, as Labour Front Benchers want us to, when we are in danger of then not getting the right deal for my constituents and for the country as a whole.
Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)
May I press the Secretary of State on the issue raised by the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry)? Japanese companies employ 140,000 people in the UK, and the Japanese Government say that these companies need to maintain tariff-free trade, consistency of regulation between the UK and the EU, passporting rights for financial services, and continued access to EU workers. In order to minimise uncertainty for these vital companies and their employees, is the Secretary of State going to prioritise any of those criteria? If not, which ones will he pursue?
Mr Davis
I have already made this pretty plain. All the issues that the hon. Lady names, such as passporting and access to markets, are being looked at and evaluated in terms of where the real risks are. Let me take passporting as an example. I have consulted a number of people in the City on passporting, and I get very different views. The City is not a single business but a sort of ecosystem of businesses, and one gets different views from each of them. Some of them have different solutions too, such as “brass plate” arrangements and so on. We have to assess all that before we decide exactly how we organise the strategy. It is pretty straightforward. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) pointed out, it is straightforward, but it is complex to calculate and complex to work out, and we will do that.
Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
I, too, congratulate my right hon. Friend on securing his position. I appreciate what he said about taking time to get this right and building a national consensus, because it is right, regardless of how we all voted, that we must make a success of it. Is he sufficiently confident that there is clear delineation between the interests of his Department, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and the Department for International Trade to make sure that there is no conflict of interest between them so that due credit can be given for the success of negotiations as they go on? In terms of parliamentary scrutiny, does he envisage himself coming before a Select Committee based on his own Department alone or some other arrangement, and if so, when?
Mr Davis
On that last point, when I was still on the Back Benches it would have been very dangerous for any Secretary of State to try to tell Back Benchers how to organise their Select Committees. I would certainly not have accepted it then and I will not fall into that trap now. On the question of relationships with the Foreign Office and the Department for International Trade, we have very clear purposes. Mine is effectively one of support for the Prime Minister, who is the leader of this exercise. The Department for International Trade has the task of exploiting the enormous opportunity this creates and the Foreign Office, as my right hon. Friend will well know from his own experience, has plenty on its plate too but will also act in a sympathetic and supportive way to establish all the relationships and build all the alliances that will deliver a positive outcome at the end of these two years.
Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)
I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State on his appointment. In March, the Secretary of State for Scotland stated:
“Our access to the single market of 500 million people reduces costs for Scottish businesses by removing barriers to an export market, currently worth around £11.6 billion.”
What evaluation has the Secretary of State made of the impact of exiting the UK on the Scottish economy?
Mr Davis
It is a pleasure to hear from the hon. Lady, my old ally on other subjects. We have not yet done that calculation, but we will. She crystallises rather well the task we have to do in the next few months—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) is now trying to give me organisational advice; I suggest she focus on her own party first and worry about us next. The hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Ms Ahmed-Sheikh) is absolutely right. That impact is exactly the sort of thing we have to assess and we will assess it, and will do it carefully. I intend to deliver on our undertaking that we will ensure that this outcome serves all parts of the United Kingdom.
Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
I was very grateful that my right hon. Friend appeared to accept the principle that when we repeal the European Communities Act we should transpose EU law into UK law. Given that EU law currently applies in the UK, does he accept that any complexity that might be apparent today would apply whether or not we repealed that Act, since that body of law applies? Will he therefore be very careful that paid advisers—perhaps paid by the day—do not introduce complexity in order to extend their fees?
Mr Davis
I know that there has been a great revolution in employment law, but I do not think that any of my civil servants are paid by the day. I take my hon. Friend’s point, and we will make sure that we consult widely and do not rely on a single source. This is part of the issue: on so many of the legal and technical issues we deal with, we get different sets of advice from different components of the same industry. The same is true here. That is what we will do; we will resolve it properly before we act.
Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)
I campaigned for the UK to remain in the EU, but I accept the outcome of the referendum and the views of the majority of my constituents. The Secretary of State has always, from the Back Benches and the Front Bench, defended parliamentary sovereignty, and that is why I am struggling to understand why he is seeking to deny Members of this House an opportunity to feed in the views of their constituents on the Government’s negotiating strategy before the triggering of article 50. That would not be to stop the triggering of article 50, which I will vote for, but to help shape that negotiating strategy.
Mr Davis
I think that the hon. Lady is misinterpreting what has been said. What we are saying is that there is no point in having a vote in the House on article 50, because all it can do is stop the instruction that the British people have already given us. That is not to say that we will not have debate after debate or that I will not appear before Select Committee after Select Committee. Indeed, I am of course accessible to everybody in this House, from all parties. I do not see that as a barrier to her bringing forward the concerns of her constituents. Indeed, I strongly encourage her to do so as soon as possible.
Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)
May I join the chorus welcoming the Secretary of State to his post, and also welcome the Prime Minister’s statement about Britain becoming a global leader on free trade? May I urge him to follow the example of Japan and, indeed, every other non-European member of the G20 in engaging in free trade deals and negotiations, which is never to give up national control over immigration or, indeed, pay a fee?
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend, who is an old friend of mine, is exactly right. The most successful countries in the world in establishing free trade deals—this might surprise Members—are places such as Chile and South Korea. They never, ever give up anything other than access to their own market in exchange for a free trade deal. Not one of them gives up money or immigration rights.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the British people made a decision on 23 June and we should respect it. I will certainly not be arguing for another referendum. We now need to make the best of the negotiations. He will, however, know that there is uncertainty, certainly in the north-east of England, about the future of EU structural funds. Can he give a guarantee that, once we come out of the EU, those funds will be replaced by the Government?
Mr Davis
I cannot speak for a future Government—as the hon. Gentleman well knows, that will be beyond the next election—but I promised the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) that we will put in the Library the Chancellor’s letter underwriting many of the structural funds, research grants and common agricultural policy funds that are already in place. It would be better if he looked at that carefully, rather than rely on my rather inaccurate estimate.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his new post, although its precise title is not the stuff of my dreams. Nevertheless, this is a new dawn and a new day and he has a job to do. What has he done so far about the university sector, which is struggling with research and development issues and considering issues relating to the free movement of people and to the single market?
Mr Davis
The Chancellor made some arrangements that helped underpin the current circumstances. The Student Loans Company has made some arrangements and I saw Universities UK myself the other day to find out what other concerns it has. We are pursuing those concerns, so I do not think that we can be accused of not paying proper attention to that sector. We are very conscious that it is a sensitive sector in these terms.
As for the title of my Department, I do not know whether my hon. Friend was the parliamentary wag who called it “Department X”, but thank you very much.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
Following on from that question, 15% of our academics are EU citizens and we would like more. What is being done to give them long-term security?
Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment. May I remind him that the remain campaign was characterised by a campaign to spread fear and uncertainty about the future of this country? And they are still at it—oh yes, they are still at it—and they are trying to make this process as complicated and as protracted as possible in order to try to frustrate it. May I warn my right hon. Friend that it would be a mistake to try to agree everything about our new relationship with the European Union by the time we leave? Leaving the European Union is but a first step towards a new relationship with our European partners and the establishment of a new relationship with the rest of the world. What the business community, the country and, indeed, many in the European Union want is speed and certainty as quickly as possible.
Mr Davis
I hope that my hon. Friend was not accusing me of being a member of the remain group. One of the things that I noticed over the summer as I pored over the vast tomes of papers that come with this job was the tendency to blame everything on Brexit, ranging from bank lay-offs to the state of the Italian bond market, which have nothing to do with Brexit. My hon. Friend is right about that, but the simple truth is that we have to get this right. We will do it as expeditiously as possible. We will not delay one day more than is necessary to do the job that we have to do, but it is a complicated and extensive relationship that we have to untangle, and we will do so in good time.
Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)
Two months ago, I asked the then Home Office Minister for urgent clarification on the status of the EU nationals resident in Britain, including the 36,000 EU nationals resident in the London borough of Westminster. They are people who are going about their jobs and setting up businesses, and they need confirmation of their status. I was told that that was going to be a priority. What does the Secretary of State mean by priority?
Mr Davis
I will answer the question, but before I do, let me just say this. One of my concerns was that quite a lot of European Union citizens who are in Britain were being unnecessarily frightened by that argument. People should bear it in mind that leave to remain is pretty much automatic, if someone has a clean criminal record, after five years, and that is the case for citizenship after six years. This process is not going to happen for two years, so if someone has been here for three years already, they are in a pretty safe place.
Having said that, the Prime Minister and I have both said in terms that we want to provide a generous guarantee to European Union citizens who are already in this country. I am confident that that can be delivered as long as we get proper, civilised treatment for British citizens abroad—who are, after all, our responsibility too.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment. There could be nobody better for the job. In order to help the Opposition, who have badly lost touch with the working-class voters they once claimed to represent, will he agree that people voted to leave in the referendum because they wanted to control immigration, they wanted to stop handing over more than £10 billion a year net to the European Union and they wanted laws to be decided for this country in this House and not in Brussels? Will he therefore make a commitment that in his negotiation, the red lines for him will be full control over immigration, no contribution to the EU budget and that all laws will be decided in this House and none will be decided in the European Union? [Interruption.]
Mr Davis
Somebody on the Front Bench muttered that I should be all right with that; I shall not say who. I demurred from—[Interruption.] I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker. I demurred from second-guessing our own negotiating position for six months in respect of the Labour party, and I am going to demur in this case. I will say this to my hon. Friend: the decision of the British people was, I think, first and foremost about control of our own destiny over and above anything else, and that is what we are seeking to return.
Mr Speaker
The Secretary of State is an immensely cerebral denizen of this House, and therefore there is no need for him at any time to imitate a turnstile. That is best avoided.
Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)
I also welcome the Secretary of State to his place, but may I say to him that many of us wanted rather more detail than a few more reheated old soundbites? We know the old slogan “Brexit means Brexit”, and what we got this afternoon was an essay on how waffle means waffle. May I commend to him the approach of the Japanese Government, who have not simply spent the last seven weeks setting up a Brexit commission, but gone to the lengths of reporting its results? I hope that that diligence and speed will inspire his work in his Department over the months to come.
I want to press the Secretary of State on his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle). He made a big play in his statement of his ambition, which I share, to restore parliamentary sovereignty. Will he therefore give this House a vote on the final package for Brexit, whenever and however it is finally negotiated?
Mr Davis
First, on this issue of detail, the right hon. Gentleman should know well that we are not simply looking at the interests of a limited number of companies and a limited number of banks, which is obviously the issue for the Japanese Government. We are looking at the interests of a whole economy, so it will take just a touch longer. Given his prior experience, he should know that, and he should know it well.
In terms of the position with respect to parliamentary approval, I suspect that a great deal of things will be brought before the House during the course of the negotiation, not just at the end. There will be plenty of opportunity both to speak about them and to vote on them.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
The very welcome appointment of my right hon. Friend, and indeed of the Foreign Secretary and the International Trade Secretary, certainly shows that the Prime Minister means what she says and that Brexit will really happen. However, some people on the losing side hope to sabotage the result of the referendum by delaying the process indefinitely. Is my right hon. Friend absolutely confident that, come what may, the UK will be outside the European Union well before the date of the next general election?
Mr Davis
I have said very plainly that we will not trigger article 50 before the end of this year, but we will trigger it as expeditiously as possible. The article 50 process takes two years. Extending it takes unanimity among every other member of the European Union, and my right hon. Friend can make his own judgment about both the probability of that and the arithmetic that it delivers.
Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
The people of Stoke-on-Trent voted overwhelmingly to leave the European Union. I will therefore work tirelessly and do everything I can to make sure that we make the best efforts for and get the best deal from that exit. To help me and other Members on both sides of the House to do so, will the Secretary of State place in the House of Commons Library details of what is going on, what is being looked at and timetables, when they are available, rather than—dare I say it—the very generalised explanation he has given today? May I put in an early bid for him to meet north Staffordshire Members of Parliament from across the House to hear at first hand the issues of great concern to those who voted for exit, as well as to others, in our city and just outside it?
Mr Davis
Let me say two things to the hon. Gentleman. One of them he did not ask about, but I am going to tell him anyway: I take this very seriously. When I talked about the British industrial working class voting for Brexit, it was his sort of seat I had in mind, and I take that very seriously. I take those votes, those people and their lives very seriously indeed, so I will see his group with the specific aim of identifying their concerns and worries about their futures and the prospects and opportunities that go with them.
To that end, I will also do what I can to make this process as open as possible. Let me say to the hon. Gentleman that this is a negotiation, and you do not play cards with all of them turned face up, as he will understand. Nevertheless, I will do what I can to make the process as open as possible. He said that what I have said today has been rather general, but I have been talking about the process. The Department has 180 people —it has quadrupled during August—and this is a fast-developing process. I mean it to be open, and I asked for a statement on the first day back so that the process can be open to everybody in the House. That is what we will do, and perhaps we will start with him.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
May I welcome the Secretary of State to his position, not least because he headed up Conservative GO? Unfortunately, one of the drawbacks of being made Secretary of State is that he can no longer wear the green tie. He has been as clear as he can—one of his great advantages is straight talking—but will he give us his best estimate now of the date on which he thinks we will actually leave? I am asking for his best estimate. We will not hold him to it—nobody is that worried—but will he just give us a date?
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
The right hon. Gentleman has always been a great defender of parliamentary democracy. Throughout the afternoon he has emphasised that the situation is complex and there are trade-offs to be made. That is why it is so incomprehensible to many of us that he does not want the House to have a vote before the path is chosen for how to trigger article 50. I wonder whether he is aware of the statement made by the former Foreign Secretary, Lord Hague, that it would be sensible
“to endorse the start of negotiations”
as
“a defeat for the terms of exit, after lengthy negotiations…could leave the UK in…limbo”.
Mr Davis
I always listen very carefully to my fellow Yorkshireman. Let me say to the hon. Lady that the reason for the question of article 50 not being put to a vote of the Commons is simply this: I am a great supporter of parliamentary democracy because it is our manifestation of democracy in most circumstances; in this unique circumstance we have 17.5 million direct votes that tell us what to do. I cannot imagine what would happen to the House in the event that it overturned 17.5 million votes. I do not want to bring the House into disrepute by doing that. I want to have the House make decisions that are effective and bite into the process. That is what will happen.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
In welcoming my right hon. Friend to his post, may I stress to him the importance of achieving fairness when it comes to our immigration policy? Does he agree that whatever criteria eventually guide it, we must have an immigration policy that no longer discriminates against the rest of the world outside the EU, as our present policy does?
Mr Davis
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. He has campaigned on this matter for a very long time, I know. All I can say is that he should bear in mind that I am not the Home Secretary. My job is to bring the power back so that the Home Secretary can exercise it. I am quite sure she will listen to what he has said and pay great attention to it.
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
Today, the Japanese Government have provided the British people with more detail on what Brexit means than the UK Government. Most of us had hoped that we would hear more this afternoon, but I am sad to say that what we have heard was sadly lacking in detail and could best be described as the Ladybird guide to exiting the European Union. This is not a petty point; like many other hon. Members, this summer I have been speaking with major employers in my constituency—in particular, the financial sector in Edinburgh South West and the universities, Heriot-Watt and Napier, which are huge employers. They are all very keen to see a detailed explanation of what Brexit will mean for them, their institutions and their employees, my constituents. When is the Minister going to give this House that sort of detailed explanation?
Mr Davis
The first point to make is that we have been in the European Union for 40-odd years. The links are very complicated. The effects on much of our society are quite complex, and some of them are quite expensive to replicate. The hon. and learned Lady will get the information she is asking for, but stepwise, as it comes out and as we generate it, and it will be accurate and useful at that point in time. A few months is not going to be a problem for her constituents.
Mr Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con)
May I also join in welcoming the three Secretaries of State to the Front Bench? They are like magnificent dreadnoughts at anchor, and we wait for them to set sail enforcing the pax Britannica. May I echo the comments about the importance of science, but also bring to the Secretary of State’s attention the creative industries, which grow three times faster than the UK economy as a whole? They rely to a certain extent on European regulations, such as the poetically named audiovisual media services directive and the general data protection regulation. May I gently nudge their interests near to the front of the queue as the Secretary of State takes us out of the European Union?
Mr Davis
I say to my right hon. Friend that he almost does not need to nudge them forward. I am very conscious of the issues relating to the film industry, in particular, which is a very mobile industry in both capital and personnel terms, and is therefore one that we are looking at very soon—indeed, it is the subject of one of the roundtables I was talking about earlier.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is well placed to address the problems with EU rules faced by Tate and Lyle in my constituency, and I welcome him to his position. It sounds from his earlier answers as though he thinks that it is possible that, at the end of the two-year negotiation, Britain will continue to be a member of the European Union single market. Will he confirm whether he thinks that is possible, and in what circumstances he thinks that would be the outcome?
Mr Davis
What I said—and I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman if I misled him—is that I am seeking to get the best possible access. That does not necessarily mean being a member of the single market. As listed earlier, plenty of countries have that access without making the sorts of concessions that we have had to make as a member of the Union.
Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)
It is good to see the three Brexiteer Cabinet Ministers sitting together in the Chamber, working for one nation, with one referendum and one clear decision, despite the fact that some people, including Tony Blair, who famously offered us a referendum and then took it away, have said that there is a chance that we might remain a member of the European Union. Will my right hon. Friend make it absolutely clear that we will be leaving the European Union in its entirety? When does he envisage us getting our hands on the Brexit dividend—the membership money—so that we can spend it on our priorities?
Danny Kinahan (South Antrim) (UUP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his position and thank him for the fact that one of his early visits was to Northern Ireland. Will he ensure that he always talks to the official Opposition there? What I have been picking up from businesses throughout the summer is uncertainty, which we have talked about. It is absolutely key, particularly in Northern Ireland, that we do not slip into a recession. We are always on the edge of it. Will he keep that foremost in his mind?
Mr Davis
Very much so. One group I met in Northern Ireland was the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland’s new business advisory group, which talked about exactly that. Sadly, we were there on the day of the Caterpillar announcement, which was bad news—it was nothing to do with Brexit but with a problem with markets in the far east. We will have that clearly front and centre.
Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his resurrection. He spoke about the value of free trade with the European Union when we leave it. That trade consists of trade in both goods and services. The barriers to it are tariff barriers, which have been discussed extensively, and non-tariff barriers, which have received rather less attention. What reassurance can he give to the many businesses in this country in the services sector, which is particularly important to us and is growing—trade with the European Union in the sector is important—that the removal of non-tariff barriers, which is in their interests, will continue?
Mr Davis
My right hon. Friend is the author of the resurrection line I cited earlier, and I would say a couple of things to him. I am tempted to use Ghandi’s comment about western civilisation. The single market in services would be a good idea, but it is somewhat patchy to say the least, and one major part of the big exercise we are doing is trying to establish exactly what the non-tariff barriers are and where they can and cannot be resolved. I take his point entirely on board. Services is the one area where we have a surplus with Europe, and we want to keep it.
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
The industrial working class of West Dunbartonshire voted overwhelmingly to remain within the European Union and to become part of a sovereign, independent Scotland. With that, I welcome the Secretary of State to his position.
The hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), who is no longer in her place, posed a very interesting question that requires further investigation on our relationship with Ireland. It is not just an economic relationship, but a social one and a familiar, reciprocal one across the length and breadth of this Chamber and the Dáil Éireann. After the Secretary of State meets the Foreign Minister of Ireland this week in Dublin, and possibly the Taoiseach, will he return to the Floor of the House and make a statement on their discussions in relation not only to the common travel area, but to the Ireland Act 1949, so that those relationships can continue when this part of the United Kingdom leaves the European Union?
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his post.
The fishing industry, not least in Scotland, was once a proud and large industry envied around the world. Many of my fishermen constituents see leaving the EU as a huge opportunity. Will he reassure them, other fishermen and potential new fishermen around the United Kingdom that fishing will be very high on his list of priorities, including potentially taking the 200-mile limit back?
Mr Davis
One group I have met already is fishermen. The answer to my hon. Friend’s initial question about priority is yes. What form that takes depends on the interests of our fishermen. Because they have interests in other waters, I will not say yes to his second question, but on priority, the answer is yes, absolutely.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
Whether we were on the side of remain or on the side of leave, we should now be on the side of doing things in the interests of the British public. In that context, the Secretary of State mentioned the rights of EU citizens and said that he was sure we could arrive at a generous settlement. May I suggest that people worry about their futures, whatever the legal framework? The negotiations with other EU member states on the rights of UK citizens there, and the rights of EU citizens here, are a top priority, because those people deserve to have those uncertainties settled as soon as possible.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his post. He is absolutely the right man to do this important work. He will appreciate the complete economic illiteracy of the European Union. On the one hand, it writes very big cheques to middle-income and developing countries to bail out their flailing economies, and on the other, it gives unequal access to European Union markets. That clearly hampers the ability of those countries to be equal partners rather than supplicants. How can Britain do better?
Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State accept that we will never attain the goal of being a beacon of free trade unless the British financial services industry retains free and full access to the single market?
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his place on the Front Bench, and my right hon. Friends the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State for International Trade, who are sitting either side of him. We have great faith in what they will deliver. Does the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union agree that not liking the outcome of a democratic vote is no justification for seeking to overturn it, however much sympathy we may have for Labour Members with their forthcoming democratic vote? This is a great opportunity for the United Kingdom. Is it not time to put the arguments of the referendum behind us and back Britain’s Government in getting a good deal for Britain? We are changing the direction of our country. This is not just the Government’s negotiation but Britain’s negotiation, and this House should unite behind them.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
The Greater Lincolnshire and Peterborough Federation of Small Businesses recently briefed me that the confidence of its members is at a four-year low. Like all of us, they want to make Brexit work and are keen to work with the Government to bring that about, but they are keen to retain access to the single market and ease of access to European labour. Most of all, they want certainty. What road map to certainty can the Secretary of State give them?
Mr Davis
Let me first deal with the immediate uncertainty and loss of confidence. There was undoubtedly a downward dip in confidence immediately after Brexit, partly because of all the terrible things people said would happen. They have not happened, and confidence is recovering, so let us put that to one side for the moment.
On access to markets, I am absolutely on the side of those FSB members. That is what we will seek to do, but we must take on board the fact that the sheer level of immigration into the UK from the European Union has caused social issues, and perhaps economic issues for low-paid workers and the like. We must balance that against the corporate interests—that is what we will do—and try to get the outcome that is best for Britain.
James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)
As someone who supported Brexit, I offer congratulations on the creation of the Secretary of State’s Department and wish it success. However, may I gently ask him when he hopes to close down the Department and return the function of the Minister of Europe to the Foreign Office?
Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will undoubtedly be aware of our debate later today on the tampon tax and the Government amendment that makes its abolition subject to the UK’s EU obligations, and not just our obligations of EU membership. Will he tell the House whether any exit agreement with the EU could include requirements on the UK to set minimum rates of VAT even after our membership ends? In that scenario, can he give us an absolute guarantee that we will be allowed to zero-rate women’s sanitary products?
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)
I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend and the whole Front Bench team to their important new roles in making a success of Brexit. Will the Secretary of State set out what discussions he has had with the EU Trade Commissioner, who has taken a much tougher line on article 50? We all agree it is in everyone’s interest to get on and negotiate before we exit, but in a recent interview she indicated that that will not be the case.
Mr Davis
Yes, but the commissioner is not in a position, frankly, to tell the Secretary of State for International Trade what he can do, subject to meeting European law. European law in this case means not putting a free trade agreement into effect until we leave. That is the limit. In terms of other discussions and negotiations, commissioners have tried to say that we cannot speak to other members of the European Union, which is sort of silly. We are an ongoing member of the European Union and we take our responsibilities seriously. It is implausible that, in our conversations with member states, we will not talk about what is coming next.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
I am surprised by the right hon. Gentleman’s assertion that the mandate for Brexit is overwhelming. I remind him that 16 and 17-year-olds, whose future as European citizens will be most affected by the decision, were denied a vote. While the Secretary of State is speaking with stakeholders, what steps will he take to ensure that young people are given a voice and a say in their future?
Mr Davis
One aspect of democracy is that one side wins and one side does not win. [Interruption.] Someone from the Labour Front Bench says that young people lost, which is certainly not true. We will see a bigger, greater and more glorious country in future than the one we already have. Just because the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) does not understand that does not mean that they lost.
To return to the hon. Lady’s point, young people may of course feel at this point that their views did not win the day. I am afraid that that is part of democracy. It is our job to ensure they gain from the outcome of that decision.
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)
In warmly welcoming my right hon. Friend to his very well-deserved position, I implore him to have early discussions with our right hon. Friends the Home Secretary, the Secretary of State for Transport and others to ensure that the words “European Union” are removed at the earliest possible moment from UK passports and driving licences.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
The statement was 15 minutes of meaningless waffle from a clueless Tory Government who have absolutely no plan for this accidental Brexit. I say to the Secretary of State that there is no point in just dictating to the people of Scotland when it comes to Brexit. Some 62% of the Scottish people voted to remain within the European Union, along with every single one of the Scottish local authorities. How should their views now be progressed?
Mr Davis
And 1 million Scots voted to leave. Despite the partisan use of this argument by the Scottish National party for its own interests, the simple truth is that the Scottish view on whether it should have independence has changed not one jot. That is an answer to the hon. Gentleman’s waffle.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Congratulations on resurrection after 18 years. It gives the rest of us hope.
It was not just places such as Lincolnshire that delivered the leave result; it was the Labour heartlands in the north and the midlands. My right hon. Friend knows those heartlands very well indeed. Does he think it would have been helpful if the official Labour spokesman—if there is such a thing—had made it absolutely clear that the people had spoken and that all Conservative and Labour Members will deliver this democratic result?
Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the right hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) said during the referendum campaign that
“those with the big fields do the sheep, and those with the hill farms do the butterflies. That would make a lot more sense for the UK and it’s perfectly possible but only if we leave the EU”.
What reassurances can the right hon. Gentleman give the farming communities that are the lifeblood of rural Wales that subsidies will continue to the more-challenging-to-farm areas, so we are not turned into a big butterfly park?
Mr Davis
The first thing that happened was that the Chancellor underwrote the common agricultural policy payments. That was very important in its own right in terms of confidence for exactly those people. In the discussions on departure from the European Union, and on subsequent agriculture and trade policy, we are discussing exactly those things. We have very much in mind what the hon. Lady is saying.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
I totally support the Government’s position not to rush into triggering article 50. I welcome the Secretary of State’s comments. He knows how important access to the single market is both for our own businesses and for inward investors from growth markets such as Asia. Does my right hon. Friend agree that just as we are currently in the European Union but have various opt-outs, so in due course we shall be out of the European Union but have the ability to continue arrangements that work well for all sides, for example Europol and the European health insurance card from which so many British families benefit?
Mr Davis
The first premise is returning power to this Government and this Parliament. How they deploy that power is entirely up to them. I would think any sensible Government would be involved in mutually beneficial activity. Israel subscribes to some European research operations and it is nowhere near being a member of the European Union. In those terms, my hon. Friend’s point is well made.
George Kerevan (East Lothian) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State repeat to the House the guarantee he gave in Northern Ireland last week that his Government will not seek to impose a hard border, which would restrict the free movement of people and labour between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic? Will he extend such a guarantee to Gibraltar and Spain?
Mr Davis
I certainly repeat the statement I made in Northern Ireland last week. The soft border or open border—I am not quite sure what the right phrasing is—existed before either of us were members of the European Union. We were separate countries with different VAT and income tax rates. It seems to me entirely possible, given modern technology, that we can do the same, and that we can design an immigration system that is also able to cope. I certainly reiterate in the House what I said in Northern Ireland last week.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend to his new post and his statement, no doubt the first of many to this House. On 22 June, the day before the referendum, the FTSE closed at 6,261. Today, it is over 6,800—up 10%. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this tells us all we need to know about investor confidence in our future: that we will be better off outside the European Union?
Mr Davis
What it certainly tells us is that the business community is not as afraid of this great new opportunity as was claimed before the referendum. I do not want to re-run the arguments of the leave campaign, but let me say that while market movements in stock markets are volatile, small and often reverse themselves, what do not reverse themselves are large inward investments. In the year in which our party committed to give the referendum, we had the largest inward investment in our history.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
I congratulate the Secretary of State who has clearly learned the lessons from the leave campaign because he has said nothing at all today. His statement was 15 minutes of waffle and soundbites about “national consensus”, “interests of the entire nation” and “one nation”, which is completely at odds with the fact that 62% of the electorate in Scotland voted to remain. This does not bode well for meaningful input from the Scottish Government. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm the claim made during the campaign by the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), now the Secretary of State for International Trade, that Scotland would suddenly have control of a whole new raft of powers, including over immigration—or was that a piece of nonsense, too?
Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con)
I, too, congratulate my right hon. Friend and parliamentary neighbour on his appointment—an inspired choice. While he has been in the role during these short few weeks, has he seen any evidence of contingency planning across any Whitehall Department prior to the referendum relating to the possibility that the British public might vote to leave the European Union? It strikes me that in a two-horse race, it might have been an idea to look into this possibility. Furthermore, given that we are going to have to look at all these different laws and 12,000-plus EU regulations that affect our lives, what progress are the Government making on ensuring that we recruit the brightest minds to do this properly?
Mr Davis
Given that my Department did not exist before I arrived in it, it is rather difficult to find documents that relate to what happened beforehand. There was certainly some planning done on the financial side—to deal with any financial turbulence. As we saw, the Bank and the Treasury undertook certain measures. As for the Department itself, I have brushed across it, but the fact that it quadrupled in size in August certainly says something. My hon. Friend will remember from his days as a Parliamentary Private Secretary what Whitehall is like is August—it is empty. We are not short of applicants, and we really have the brightest and the best applying to help us. That applies to the Department for International Trade as well as mine, so my hon. Friend can feel confident about that.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
The Secretary of State, whom I welcome to his post, reaffirmed in his statement the Chancellor’s promise that all structural investment fund projects signed before the autumn statement would be underwritten by the Treasury as we leave. That is a bit of a quandary for the people of Greater Manchester. We have been allocated to 2020 £322 million in European structural investment funds, but £157.9 million of that has not yet been contracted. It is currently held up in Whitehall Departments, predominantly the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Department for Work and Pensions. Can the right hon. Gentleman ensure that the people of Greater Manchester get all the £322 million allocated to them by the European Union—and not the lesser amount that has already been approved by the Government?
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his well-deserved appointment. Some 61% of the people of Kettering voted to leave the European Union and they want to make sure that my right hon. Friend has the tools to finish the job. Following the question about staff numbers from my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams), the Secretary of State says that he has 180 people at the moment, but how many does he need? Given that his Department will hopefully no longer exist in two years’ time, what incentive is there for the brightest and best civil servants, who will have long-term civil service careers in mind, to join his Department; and what incentives are there to attract people from the private sector?
Mr Davis
The first thing about incentives—we barely need them—is that people will want to be at the centre of the most important historic change that has happened over the last two or three decades. I do not think that will be a problem. Arrangements are being made, precisely because we will disappear when the process is over, to ensure continuity and to ensure that they will go back seamlessly into the Whitehall system. I rather suspect that, at the end, there will be lots more bids for them than that.
Stuart Blair Donaldson (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (SNP)
Membership of the European Union allows young people in Scotland the freedom to easily live, learn and work across Europe, and they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. What assurances can the Secretary of State give to young people living in my constituency that these benefits and freedoms will be retained after Brexit?
Mr Davis
That is a good question. I would expect us to be able to ensure that there will be freedoms that are at least as good as those that are in place now. One important aspect—it applies to the EU, but particularly to Britain—is that we are a science superpower. We have a fabulous education system and some of the best universities and the best students in the world. I think that that will be reflected in the outcome that we see in a few years’ time.
David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his new position. Speaking as a parliamentarian who has never seen him in action at the Dispatch Box, it is an absolute pleasure to watch him. Enough of all that, however; let me get down to the nitty-gritty in my blunt northern way. Will my right hon. Friend look into VAT? As he knows, it was a purchase tax before 1973; it is now VAT. It has fluctuated up and down over the years, but irrespective of that, many small businesses out there need the taper relief because when they hit the VAT threshold, it can actually kill them off. I know that—I was a small businessman; I succeeded, but it was a problem. Will my right hon. Friend please look further into this on behalf of the small businesspeople of the United Kingdom?
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
I congratulate my parliamentary neighbour on his appointment. As he knows, the Humber estuary is fast becoming the UK energy estuary, with Siemens investing massively in Hull and having the potential to export to the single market. Trade deals with Australia will not really cut it in Hull, so will the Secretary of State agree to meet a delegation from the Humber to make sure that the green energy industry benefits from the huge and exciting opportunities that he has talked about?
Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)
I was delighted to hear my right hon. Friend say that he had begun the huge task of going sector by sector to assess the undoubted challenges that many parts of the British economy will face. Will he add a second column to his spreadsheet for the opportunities that those sectors might have and that might arise from Brexit? We all know from every industry and business that we have worked in that there will be areas of promise from leaving the European Union, particularly in respect of avoiding onerous and excessive European regulations that hold back British economic sectors. Will my right hon. Friend create a parallel process of assessing those regulations so that we can be in a good position as soon as we leave?
Mr Davis
That is a good point, and we are on it already. The opportunities side of the spreadsheet, as my hon. Friend puts it, is integral to the process. We have already had reports on some of them, but we are also challenging some of the points that have come back to us because of a degree of special pleading. It takes a little longer than just asking the question, but yes, we are doing what my hon. Friend suggests.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
In June, Vote Leave issued an unequivocal letter, co-signed by the Foreign Secretary, saying that the levels of funding that constituencies such as mine currently receive from the European social fund would continue post-Brexit. Will the Secretary of State repeat that guarantee from the Dispatch Box today, or was that letter simply worthless?
Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to his place. One of the greatest opportunities presented by leaving the European Union, particularly for Cornwall, is reclaiming the UK’s territorial fishing waters. Will my right hon. Friend commit not to using this natural resource as a bargaining chip for the wider deal but to embracing the opportunities that this could deliver to coastal communities such as mine and others around the UK?
Mr Davis
I have never experienced so many attempts to seduce me into making promises. As I said earlier, this will be one of the gains from the European Union negotiation, but there may be some internal negotiations within it. If my hon. Friend speaks to his local fishermen, he will see what I mean.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Following the referendum, in which Renfrewshire voted 2:1 to remain, I wrote to businesses across the county to offer any support that I could, and visited many businesses and institutions during the summer recess. They are all desperate for information, but, shamefully, the Secretary of State offered nothing but doubletalk, prevarication and assertions in his statement. When can EU citizens and businesses in Renfrewshire expect some details to emerge about what Brexit will entail, and about how the Government plan to spend the Foreign Secretary’s £350 million a week windfall?
Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his position, but may I ask whether he appreciates that the appetite of people in Scotland for a further independence referendum, and, indeed, how they might vote in such a referendum, will depend in large part on the response that he and the Government now make to those people’s decision to reject, by a large majority, the separation from the European Union? In 2014, we were promised that Scotland would be respected within this United Kingdom. If, in the months ahead, proposals emerge which offer the prospect of separate and different arrangements for Scotland and for the European Union, will the Secretary of State listen and consider them in good faith, or will he reject them out of hand?
Mr Davis
Before I answer the hon. Gentleman’s question, may I apologise to him for the late response to the letter that he wrote to me earlier in the summer? We did try to give him some facts in it.
In respect of the discussions with the Scottish Government and other devolved Administrations, let me say this first up. There is a joint ministerial committee, in which the First Minister, or her nominee—whichever she wishes—has been offered a place, and that will be the process whereby we will look at all proposals. The Prime Minister has said that we will look at all proposals. I have to tell the hon. Gentleman upfront that—as I said to the First Minister when I spoke to her about it—I really cannot see how his proposed arrangement could be made to work, but we will look at it.
Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his appointment. May I ask him a question about immigration controls? Do the United Kingdom Government propose to continue to differentiate between entry restrictions applying to citizens of the European Union and those applying to people from outside the EU?
Mr Davis
All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is this. My task is to bring the control of that process back to the Government and back to Parliament, and it is for the Government and for Parliament to decide how they use it. The simple truth is that I expect us to see a much more even-handed policy in the future than the one that we have now, but I think that we must wait until the negotiation is completed.
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (SNP)
It is clear to SNP Members that the Government’s handling of the withdrawal from the European Union has been nothing short of a disgrace, and the lack of leadership shown by the new Prime Minister has done nothing to quell the fears of either British citizens or EU nationals living on these islands. Does the Secretary of State not agree that the only person who has shown any leadership and forward thinking on Brexit is the First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon?
Mr Davis
I must say that I thought the hon. Lady was going to refer to Ruth Davidson, who won the popularity contest this time round, but let me say something else about the Scottish nationalist approach to this. Our new Prime Minister, before she even carried out her reshuffle, went to Scotland to see the First Minister. How much more respect one politician could pay to another I do not know, but what gratitude do we get for it? What we have just heard.
Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)
I will let the House into a secret. Back in 2008, when the Secretary of State resigned his seat over civil liberties, I, as a young 22-year-old, sent him an email wishing him all the best in that election, and, despite our differences, I have been an admirer of his since then. I have to say, however, that I was disappointed by the weakness in his statement. My constituents voted to remain by more than 70%—the highest proportion in the city of Glasgow—but they will expect me to get the best deal in the circumstances. With that in mind, will the Secretary of State outline what powers he expects the Scottish Parliament to gain as a result of the Brexit vote, and when he expects those powers to be implemented?
Mr Davis
First, it depends very much on what is agreed in the negotiation. Secondly, the undertaking that was given was to do everything possible to protect all the interests of all the parts of the United Kingdom—and Scotland, of course, is at the front rank of those people. The issue is not about giving powers to politicians; it is about looking after the interests of the people, and that is what will happen. We will look after the interests of everyone in the United Kingdom, including Scotland.
Several hon. Members rose—
UK Presidency of the Council of the European Union
David Davis Excerpts(8 years, 4 months ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Davis)
The UK had been scheduled to host the rotating presidency of the Council of the European Union in the second half of 2017. On 19 July the Prime Minister confirmed to President of the European Council Donald Tusk that the UK would be relinquishing the presidency of the Council of the European Union, noting that we would be prioritising the negotiations to leave the EU.
President Tusk welcomed the Prime Minister’s swift decision which would allow the Council to put alternative arrangements in place. The Council secretariat will now put in motion the arrangements to allocate the presidency to an alternative member state.
The Prime Minister and President Tusk concluded by looking forward to a strong working relationship.
Attachments can be viewed online at http://www.parliament. uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2016-07-21/HCWS119/
[HCWS119]