Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Like the hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Rishi Sunak), I also have a business background, as of course does the director general of the CBI, Carolyn Fairbairn, who said:

“At the moment if the commentary was to read into what we’ve heard so far, it’s that we’re heading to something of a cliff edge in two and a half years.”

Does my hon. and learned Friend recognise, as I do, that there are many people in business who are very, very concerned about the lack of commentary and lack of direction from the Government?

[Keir Starmer]

I am grateful for that intervention. There are two aspects to today’s debate. Partly, there is the political aspect: what is the role of Parliament. There is also the question of uncertainty. It is absolutely clear that, across business, across EU citizens and across the population as a whole, there is great uncertainty about what the plans are, and that uncertainty simply cannot be kept in place for the next three years. It is growing uncertainty.

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[Mr Davis]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. That is the premise on which we are advancing. That is not to say—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) waits a moment, I will give way. We will have proper scrutiny, and I will deal with that in a minute. We will not allow anyone to veto the decision of the British people—that is the point.

[Toby Perkins]

If it is really the case that article 50 is the start of the process and we begin scrutiny after that, why is it being triggered nine months after the vote? Surely that is because a huge amount of preparatory work is required, and that is what we want to scrutinise.

[Mr Davis]

It is because it takes a little while to prepare the negotiating strategy—a point to which I shall return.

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[Stephen Gethins]

I will not give way yet.

Over the coming little while, much of the debate should be about scrutiny—we should be able to talk about our constituents who are affected—but it should also be about vision and the kind of country we want to see if the rest of the United Kingdom leaves. I was proud, as I am sure every member of my party was, that 62% of people in Scotland voted to remain.

[Toby Perkins]

rose—

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

rose—

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[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

What a great ending.

Like my colleagues, I was unambiguously in favour of Britain staying in the EU. However, I accept that we were unable to convince voters of our arguments. As a democrat, I firmly believe that, as we took the choice to hold a referendum and as that referendum cost the Prime Minister his job, there can be no doubt that the Government should get on with the job of negotiating our exit from the EU.

It was, however, a very close verdict. On the night of the poll, we were able to get 8/1 against Brexit happening. We had Nigel Farage on the television, telling us—wrong again—that remain was going to win, and also telling us that, in the event of remain winning, we should have another referendum. He said that the campaign was not over and that we were going to have another vote. We should not forget that many of those people who are now saying that we should get on and accept the result were telling us that, in the event of a remain vote, we should have a second referendum.

I regret the instant campaign for a second referendum; the result was legitimate. Although it was a close call, those advocating a second referendum on the basis that the British people did not know what they were voting for were ill advised. This thirst to ask people to vote again undermines that perfectly legitimate demand for proper debate about what the shape of our future relationship with Europe should look like.

Although the leave campaign was vague on the details of what a post-Brexit relationship with Europe and the rest of the world would look like, and the campaign promises that were made have disappeared like a spring frost in the days since, there were, my constituents who voted leave believed, some clear commitments that were made. The first was that we would be able to continue to trade with our European partners—they imported fewer of our goods than we did of theirs, we were told, and they were still going to want to sell us their BMWs. We were also told that pulling out of the EU would open new doors to all these other markets that we were currently unable to access.

The second thing that my constituents heard was that there would be a reduction in immigration and that we would take back control of our borders. They clearly believed that leaving the European Union would enable Britain to control freedom of movement and to reduce immigration.

At a time when our NHS is so stretched, it is complete madness for the Government to send out a message to foreign doctors that they may be welcome now but they might not be in the future, that they can come here, set up home here and have children here but that in a few years’ time if we can train up some doctors they might all have to go. It is madness, because our NHS cannot cope without those doctors and other healthcare professionals. There are many other skills on which we rely from overseas. If the Government are trying to send that message, they are absolutely insane.

Thirdly, my constituents expect Britain to be better off as a result of leaving the EU. The £350 million for the NHS may have already disappeared, but whatever the Government choose to spend money on, there is a clear expectation that there will be more money to be spent in the UK as a result of Brexit.

As a remainer, I can say that if the Government deliver on those three tests, there will be no need for a second referendum. What worries me is that this decision is being driven by intra-party concerns within the Tory party. We have a Prime Minister who, rather ambiguously, was on the remain side and who is now trying to show that, as her party is dominated by activists on the leave side, she will be good to that promise. As a result of that, a very, very hard Brexit proposal is being brought forward. It was very revealing that, before joining the team of advisers for the Secretary of State for Brexit, Raoul Ruparel said:

“It is concerning that, at this stage, the UK Government still seems to be debating the most basic tenets of Brexit when the time is upon us to be drafting a detailed approach.”

We need that detailed approach, which is why I support the motion on the Order Paper.