Commons Chamber

Thursday 4th June 2026

(began 6 days, 12 hours ago)

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None Portrait Q5. What steps she is taking to help support farmers with the cost of fertiliser. (900139)
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To be. >> Number five I think, sir.
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None Portrait Q11. When she last met the National Farmers' Union of Scotland. (900146)
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Yeah.
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None Portrait Q1. What steps her Department is taking to support farmers with fuel costs. (900133)
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case to be reviewed by another lawyer. If the CPS is considering dropping the prosecution. I have
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None Portrait Q2. What steps she is taking to help increase prosecution rates for cases involving violence against women and girls. (900176)
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Solicitor General. two and six together. Mr. speaker, may I first pay tribute to the work
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Ellie Reeves Portrait Rt Hon Ellie Reeves KC MP, The Solicitor-General (Lewisham West and East Dulwich, Labour)
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done by former Ministers Jess Phillips and Alex Davies-Jones for all their work in tackling violence all their work in tackling violence against women and girls? Last month at the CPS Crown Advocacy at the CPS Crown Advocacy Conference, I highlighted the steps being taken to increase the volume being taken to increase the volume of advocates available to prosecute rape. Since the summer of 2024, that group has grown by over 50%, that group has grown by over 50%, meaning more rape cases can be heard with less vacated or abandoned.

Alongside this, the government has set aside £6 million over the next two years to introduce independent legal advisers for victims of adult rape, to help ensure cases make it to prosecution.

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Just for future reference, we meant to name MPs by constituencies, meant to name MPs by constituencies, not by name, but not through a Sean Woodcock.

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Number six.

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Number six. Apologies, Mr.

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Apologies, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Solicitor General agree that public confidence in the justice system and supporting victims is crucial to improving prosecution rates for violence against women and girls? And what further actions is she taking with the CPS to reassure victims that sexual offences, such as those of rape and other crimes, are robustly prosecuted, treated are robustly prosecuted, treated with a gravity they deserve and justice will be delivered for victims?
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None Portrait Q4. What advice she has provided to the Government on the potential impact of restricting the right to jury trials on the rule of law. (900178)
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>> Mr. >> Mr. speaker, this government inherited a justice system in
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None Portrait Q5. What steps she is taking to ensure the effective prosecution of domestic abuse cases. (900180)
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>> Number five, Mr. Speaker.
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None Portrait Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if she will make a statement on the recent deliberate attacks by Russia on civilian infrastructure, including apartment buildings and non-military targets
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John Whittingdale thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Foreign Secretary make a statement on the recent deliberate attacks by Russia on civilian infrastructure, including residential apartment buildings and

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other non-military targets? Yes, Minister. Mr. speaker. I thank the right hon. Member
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Priti Patel Portrait Rt Hon Priti Patel MP (Witham, Conservative)
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Mr. speaker. devastating week in Ukraine, and Britain must continue to stand with Ukraine in its fight for freedom and sovereignty and back them and sovereignty and back them against this evil and heinous acts that we have seen and are constantly committed by Putin. The latest barbaric acts from him and from Russia have led them to brutally target civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, and the world has once again witnessed his cold blooded actions, where we have all seen bodies of civilians being pulled from rubble and the deaths of young people and children.

All that we have seen in the news this week. We have also witnessed his war machine hitting targets in Romania, one of our NATO allies. Putin's barbaric war of aggression, continues, and he has demonstrated his complete and utter lack of interest in de-escalation or pursuing a peaceful resolution. Now, in government, this party has a proud record of supporting Ukraine in its fight against Putin. But when this government gets it right, we will support them. But the recent shameful actions to loosen sanctions on Russian oil and gas are not acceptable to us.

So will the government take action in light of the continued threat from Putin? And would they not rather drill in the North Sea rather than loosening the sanctions on Russian oil and gas? We have seen the Russian ambassador has been summoned by the FCDO. But how is the government responding to Russia's drone attack on Romania? This is a dangerous escalation that we have seen. What support is being given directly to Romania and to other NATO allies in the region to protect them. What action is the government taking to tackle the Russian shadow fleet as it continues to slip through our waters? What work is the Foreign Secretary doing with the Ministry of Defence to ensure that both the RAF and the Royal Navy are equipped and prepared to deal with Russian proxies passing through our waters? When is the coalition of the willing due next to meet? What actions are being taken to further target Putin's ability to wage war, and what proposals are coming forward to bring an end to this conflict? The UK must continue to show resolve and use every tool at its disposal to back Ukraine and our allies and defend our freedoms and values from Putin's acts and assaults.
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Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Here. >> Mr. speaker, I thank the. >> Shadow Foreign Secretary for her comments, and she will know how comments, and she will know how important it is that we maintain the support across the House for our action in relation to supporting Ukraine and the pressure on Russia, and it sends a very important message from the whole of Parliament to Putin that we stand in solidarity with Ukraine, and it is important to recognise the the work that we are doing on sanctions.

I do disagree with her characterisation of what we have done. I have outlined how we have actually strengthened sanctions. And what I will also add, Mr. Speaker, is how, on the 26th of May, the UK also sanctioned cryptocurrency exchanges operating in Russia, along with entities and individuals suspected of links to the UK sanctioned A7 network. And it is important to recognise that we are continuing and must continue to keep all of our sanctions under review and strengthen where we can.

What I will also say to her is that her her contribution today has outlined why we must see a commitment to an unconditional ceasefire. It is unacceptable to see the attacks that we had both on Ukraine and on and then on the drone. It attack on on Romania. But it is also important to say it is Russia that is stalling and backtracking. And Putin has continued to repeat ultra maximalist demands, which would amount to an end to Ukraine's existence as a sovereign, independent state while dragging out talks and escalating his aggression against Ukraine.

We, however, will continue to work with international partners. We are doing that every week. We are continuing to work with international partners to ensure that Ukraine gets the military and financial support it needs to defend itself, whilst ramping up the economic pressure on Russia in order to force Putin to de-escalate the war and engage in meaningful talks.
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Mark Pritchard Portrait Rt Hon Mark Pritchard MP (The Wrekin, Conservative)
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Mark Pritchard Mr. >> It would be easy. >> To see this conflict in purely geopolitical terms, but if I may slightly be slightly philosophical slightly be slightly philosophical for a moment, I would suggest that this is very much a battle between this is very much a battle between good and evil, between light and darkness. And if it's seen in that context, I think it gives us a little bit more impetus to continue to do what the United Kingdom has been doing from the beginning of this war, and to stay united across this House as much as possible.

Notwithstanding the comments from the front bench, which are my front bench, which I completely agree with on the temporary temporary licenses. But if I may, would the Minister like to join me in congratulating the new government of Hungary in lifting the veto on the European peace facility, which is going to directly help Ukraine's war effort? And is it not the case that the attacks on Poland, Romania, Moldova and the Baltic states is not an errant missile going astray, but it is a probing of NATO.

It is a testing of NATO and our resolve. And that resolve must remain tough and strong and resolute. But finally, on the issue of Russian sanctions, which I've supported from the very beginning, clearly, isn't there not the case that North Korea, Iran and China? And I'd like to put on record my thanks to Sir Richard Moore, the former chief of the Secret Intelligence Service, for calling out China the component parts of a lot of these ballistic missiles and drones are coming from those three countries, and we need to take more action.

And. Madam Deputy Speaker. Finally, may I put on record my my condolences for the death of Sir Richard. So forgive me for Sir Alex Younger, a former head of Sis who was a first class public servant, a dedicated his life to keeping this this country safe and our allies.
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Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Minister. >> May I, Madam Deputy Speaker, also join in condolences in relation to Hungary and for all the relation to Hungary and for all the reasons that he. That the hon. Member States. And let me just take some of his comments. There were some of his comments. There were quite a lot in his in his intervention. It is indeed the case that Russia's recklessness in violating NATO airspace, including the incident in Romania just a few days ago, serves only to strengthen the unity of NATO and the resolve of allies to.

To support Ukraine in its defence and to also continue to send a message to Russia that we will defend every inch of of NATO territory. And what I think is also important to recognise is the ongoing support that we are giving and why it is so important. I have already stated the support that we have given to the Ukraine war effort. We've committed also 13 billion of total military. Support with our 2.26 billion Extraordinary Revenue Acceleration loan.

And I do want to also mention that since the start of the invasion, the UK has committed up to 5.3 billion in non-military support, including 4.1 billion to the world Bank loans and 1.2 billion in bilateral support. We are a leading bilateral donor and it is the case as well that in our work with EU allies that we continue to support efforts. Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine continues to be met by European unity and that the European Political Council summit in Yerevan last month.

He will know that. The Prime Minister announced the UK will enter talks to join the EU's 90 billion loan, which will support Ukraine's budgetary and military needs. Phil Brickell.
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Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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I thank the the hon. Gentleman >> I thank the the hon. Gentleman for his comments. And let me just also agree with him that Russia's also agree with him that Russia's failure on the battlefield is likely to be one reason why it is escalating its air raids, including on major Ukrainian cities. That is a view of analysts. The Institute for the Study of War think tank said that strikes were also aimed at distracting from the impact of Ukraine's long term attacks on Russia, and it is important that we recognise that this is a sign of Russia starting to seek to have that, have those distractions and to escalate rather than de-escalate, which is what we need to happen.

I have already outlined, Madam Deputy Speaker, the work that we are doing, both on increasing defence support bilaterally and multilaterally, the way we are engaging in dialogue and work with our European allies as well as allies across the world. The way the Prime Minister is continuing to lead in those efforts, the reason and why he spoke to President Zelensky last night, and why we must continue to have that dialogue, the reason why we also summoned the Russian ambassador yesterday. This is an effort in which we will continue to be engaged in supporting Ukraine, standing with Ukraine and making sure that we see a de-escalation, a unilateral cease fire and that Russia withdraws.
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Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Feltham and Heston, Labour )
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Minister. >> Minister. >> I, I always thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. And let Gentleman for his question. And let me also say that he is absolutely right, that it is imperative that right, that it is imperative that we see a cease fire, an end to this war, and the withdrawal of Russia from Ukraine. And that remains our focus in the support we give to Ukraine and the work that we are doing internationally with other other nations to work with our close partners, continuing on negotiations.

But it is also important to recognise the impact that our sanctions are having, as I've outlined. Indeed, it's also worth mentioning Russia's oil and gas revenues fell 24% year on year in 2025 and by 47% in January and February this year compared to the same period last year. We have to keep the pressure on and it is important that we also recognise this is also about upholding international law. It's about our values and it is about ensuring that sovereign nations should be able to continue their lives in peace, supporting prosperity and security for their people and not

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be subject to illegal wars. As we as we have seen in Ukraine. That is the end.

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That is the end. Of the urgent question on Russia attacks on civilian infrastructure. It's a front bench. Wish to quickly. Shuffle over. We can start.

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We can start.

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We can start. The business questions. Business question, shadow leader. Thank you, Madam.

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Thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker. Will the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business?
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Jesse Norman Portrait Rt Hon Jesse Norman MP (Hereford and South Herefordshire, Conservative)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and may I welcome my guests to the gallery. As I see it. Madam Deputy Speaker Part of our job at Business Questions is to act as a place of record, and this has been a grim week, a week of mourning for us all. First, we mourn for Henry Novak. The whole House will know the terrible circumstances of his murder and will, I know, feel the deepest respect for the dignity of his family in the face of such a loss.

We mourn. Two the tragic loss of the three Royal Navy crew killed yesterday when their helicopter crashed in Devon, and the loss of Lance Corporal James Freeman, of the Royal Anglian Regiment, who died on Sunday during a training exercise in Irbil. And we mourn the early death of Sir Alex Younger. As has already been mentioned in this chamber, a friend to many in and around this House who did so much to protect this country in his long tenure as chief of the Secret Intelligence Service.

But finally, I hope I may record my personal sadness at the recent deaths of two true conservative parliamentarians, Sir Alan Haselhurst and Sir Jeremy Hanley, both great public servants. In all these cases, we send our deepest condolences to their families, friends and comrades. Madam Deputy Speaker, I have two matters to raise with the leader today, if I may. First is a matter of housekeeping. Colleagues will know of my deep concerns about the current plans for the rebuild of the Palace of Westminster, the lack of scrutiny they have received to date, and in particular the prospect of an uncapped Budget potentially running up to an astounding 20 to £40 billion.

The R&R client board last met on the 2nd of March. At that meeting, I requested information and I understood that my request had been agreed three months later. As far as I am aware, nothing has happened. I cannot even check the status of my request because the minutes have not been published in either of the two. I note two parallel and apparently unconnected places on the parliamentary website. This is just not good enough. It is a disrespect to the chamber and to the Palace as a whole.

Very soon the government are expected to bring a motion forward, asking colleagues to endorse a programme which could cost more than the original Budget for HS2. Just think about that, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope all members will think about it. At present, colleagues are manifestly under-informed and underprepared. Can the leader, therefore reassure the House that there will be proper time for scrutiny, both in the Public Accounts Committee and on the floor of the House, and that at least three weeks notice will be given of any motion so that both houses may prepare properly.

Secondly, I raise a matter of both local and national importance. The leader will know that thanks to the Hay Festival and now how the light gets in. Every year at the end of May, hay and its environs in my constituency become the world capital of ideas. As Arthur Miller once described it, hay is the Woodstock of the mind, but hay is also Hay on Wye and the Wye, one of the loveliest rivers in Britain, remains in deep ecological distress. I've been campaigning on this issue now for six years and progress, alas, has been fitful at best.

The previous government published a River Wye action plan, with up to £35 million earmarked to help deal with poultry, manure and nutrient pollution, only for it to be discarded after the general election. But Herefordshire Council and neighbouring councils have been working hard with farmers, conservation bodies and local partners, most recently through a new charter for the River Wye. An evocative statement of shared purpose across the catchment. The root problem is a lack of joined up collective action and a regulatory system that remains woefully insufficient.

The river runs through England and Wales, but pollution does not stop at the border and nor should policy. We need one and we have always needed one single approach which brings everyone together, one source of authority for the river. And that is why I am proposing statutory River Wye Commissioners, an inexpensive cross-border body for the whole catchment created by an order in council with a single recovery plan, proper shared data, published milestones and the authority to bring all parties, businesses, farmers, campaigners, ecologists, planning, conservation and enforcement to the same table.

So may we have a debate in government time on the River Wye. Commissioners and perhaps the government can pick up my River Wye cleaning Private Member's Bill, so that this wonderful river can be

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given the clear, accountable and empowered cross-border support it so urgently needs. Leader.

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Leader. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And may I join the right hon. And may I join the right hon. Gentleman in mentioning at the very beginning of my remarks, Henry Novak and I want to thank him, and I want to thank many, many members
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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I want to thank many, many members across the House who have dealt with this matter a tragic matter in a sensitive and responsible way. Unfortunately, it's not universal in this House. But I have to say, in many ways, members have risen to the occasion and we need to respect, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, the wishes of Henry's family. But above all that, we need to respect Henry himself, and I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the way in which he has raised this.

He has also given a list of other tragic events, and I just want to mention some of them and run through perhaps some others, too. As he says, we send our deepest condolences to the friends and families of the Navy personnel killed tragically during the helicopter training exercise yesterday, and also pay tribute to Lance Corporal James Freeman, who was killed in a training exercise in northern Iraq. I know that the thoughts of the whole House are with his family and his unit at this desperately sad time and again, it underlines just how important it is that we respect our men and women of the services who who do so much on behalf of our country.

I'm also saddened, as he was, to hear of the death of Lord Hazelhurst. Alan Hazelhurst was a distinguished deputy Speaker, chairman of Ways and Means and chair of the Administration Committee. A dedicated parliamentarian MP for more than 47 years. I served with him on the honours committee from time to time, but more lately met up with him in the tea Room, where we invariably discussed cricket, of which he knew a great deal, and clearly I do not also pay tribute to Alex Younger, the former head of MI6, who passed away this week.

He was a distinguished and dedicated public servant and the longest serving MI6 chief in 50 years, and our thoughts are with his family at this very, very sad time. I also want to place on record our tribute to Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale, who sadly passed away. She lived an extraordinary life and served as a role model to women everywhere, and I'm sure the whole House will join me in sending condolences to her family and friends. And lastly, but by no means least, I am sure the whole House also joins me in sending our condolences to the friends and family of Gladys Dixon.

She was a much loved character in the members tea room and rightly proud of the MBE, which she received, and she'll be deeply, deeply missed by members across the House. I just want to mention 1 or 2 matters, Madam Deputy Speaker, before I get on to the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman, patients across England will benefit from more services, treatments and better access to medicines from their local pharmacy under a new £340 million government funded deal we announced last week.

And we are making the most of our highly skilled pharmacists, while boosting access to services and giving patients more care right on their doorstep. And I know that this issue has been raised many times in business questions and indeed elsewhere. And I hope that that pressure has influenced this decision and that this announcement will be welcomed at the weekend. The biggest train operator, Govia Thameslink Services, entered public ownership, which means that publicly owned operators will deliver eight out of ten passenger rail journeys and millions of passengers will benefit from more accountability and reliable journeys.

I know that railway services are an issue, again, which are frequently raised by members with me, but again in other ways as well. And by setting up Great British Railways, we're putting passengers first, we're fixing what's broken and we're delivering a better railway. On behalf of the people on the two specific points that the right hon. Gentleman raises, it does. He's right to raise. And it is concerning that the Planning Board has not produced the minutes of the meeting yet.

There's no, I'm sure, no great conspiracy behind this. It's just a case of they haven't got around to doing it, but I'll give him the assurance that they will. And I also agree with him that it's really important that we lay the role, the ground roll the pitch for any decision on R&R, a decision which I. I truly believe we will need to make one way or the other because we can't tread water for very much longer, not least because it's costing us a great deal of money to do so.

Whichever route we take, it costs a great deal of money, but governance and financial. Guidance on these matters, keeping tabs on the the money is very important. It's the heart of what we do. And therefore I will be bringing forward a motion. And I listen to what you said about the time for that. It is the case that the PSC is looking at this, and we do need to learn lessons from people who have looked at this matter so that if we make the decision that we get it absolutely right.

In terms of the Hay on Wye Festival and indeed the river here, I too was at the Hay on Wye Festival for a day, and it is a tremendous event, and next year I would encourage people to go along to that. He talks about the state of our rivers. We've got a water bill in the King's Speech. We are determined to go on cleaning up our rivers and our seas. The Wye is, amongst others, a very beautiful river indeed, and it is important that it is cleaned up for communities along its route, but also for others who visit that particularly beautiful part of the world.

I offer him a meeting with the water Minister to make his case for the actions that he proposes, so that he can put forward his proposals for a commissioner. And if the government isn't forthcoming in that, there are other routes that he can take. He mentioned his private member's bill, but there are other routes, because I know as a determined campaigner to improve that situation.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I understand my hon. Friend's frustration on these matters, but I have to say that Ministers, have to say that Ministers, including the Prime Minister, have complied with the Humble Address by providing all the information that Ministers hold, and I think that's Ministers hold, and I think that's the right thing for them to have done, the information that they have held. And as as following on from that, the Cabinet Office has then published that information. So I just want to correct the record that that as far as anyone knows, nothing is being withheld from that.

She's absolutely right, however, about the duty of candour. She's done a great deal of work and I thank her for that. On on the Hillsborough law, at which the centre of which is is about candour, and that will be coming forward in due course, and she'll be able to make her case again there. But of course, it's not just about candour that everyone in public office should be accountable for, but there are ministerial codes and other ways in which people can be

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held accountable for their actions. And I just want to reassure the House on that matter. Liberal Democrat spokesperson

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Wendy Chamberlain. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to start by echoing the comments made by both the shadow comments made by both the shadow leader and the Leader of the House in relation to the murder of Henry Novak and the comments made by his Novak and the comments made by his family. As a former police officer, Madam Deputy Speaker, what I would say is to those who are seeking to protest or indeed encouraging those
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Wendy Chamberlain Portrait Wendy Chamberlain MP (North East Fife, Liberal Democrat)
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protest or indeed encouraging those to protest, is that protests involve policing, and they take away the very police officers who operate in our communities trying to tackle the scourge of knife crime. And it is important that we remember that. I would also echo their comments in relation to the service personnel who have tragically died in recent days to the death of Sir Alex Younger and the former parliamentarians that we all recognise and remember, Madam Deputy Speaker. This week I wanted to draw the attention of the House to the outbreak of the Ebola virus in the DRC and Uganda, and already over 60 people have died as a result of this ongoing outbreak.

The head of Who said yesterday that the outbreak could have begun as early as January, and I fear, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that desperate? Drastic cuts to international aid have undermined the international community's preparedness to urgently identify and respond to outbreaks such as these. Yet under the conservative government, aid was slashed from 0.7 of GDP to 0.5 and under labour down to its lowest levels as a proportion of GNI since 1999. We are responding to a crisis like the Ebola outbreak, with one hand tied behind our backs.

International development is important for Britain's strength abroad. Not my words, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the words of Tony Blair in as much commented essay last week. And I'd also say that I believe it is important to our national security as well. Liberal Democrats enshrined the 0.7 international development target in law whilst in government, thanks in large part to the dedication of Liberal Democrat leader in the Lords, Lord Purvis. A law which has still not been repealed despite successive governments flouting it.

So I ask the Leader of the House, will he ask the Foreign Secretary to come before this House and update us on the government's compliance with the International Development Act of 2015?
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. I certainly join the hon. Lady in paying tribute to the police officers, particularly those that were hurt in the those that were hurt in the appalling recent disturbances. She she refers to the outbreak of Ebola and the current outbreak is affecting. As colleagues will know, the Democratic Republic of Congo and also threatening Uganda as well. Our estimation is that the risk to the UK population is currently low, but we do keep that under constant review.

We've implemented a package of border health measures, including information screens at Live at Heathrow, Gatwick and Manchester airports and NHS 111 pathways have been updated, but we do continue to work closely with international partners. Last month we. Up to £20 million of new UK aid funding helped to contain the recent outbreak in the eastern DRC, but we keep that under constant review. I couldn't agree more with that. The aid programme is an important part of our national security.

I also think it's a moral cause, actually, but we are committed to a target of 0.7% when the fiscal circumstances allow that, and we are committing £1.4 billion a year to tackle human suffering in some of the worst humanitarian crises, we will still be the fifth biggest funder of development aid, and we will invest £850 million in the Global Fund for 2026 2028. So I do understand what she's saying about the need to go further, but that should not ignore the fact that we're doing everything that we can.
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Backbench committee chair. Deputy Speaker. The committee met on Tuesday afternoon, and of course, we had six of the eight members who we had six of the eight members who are due to the committee, and our quorum is four. So I would urge both the government and our Liberal Democrat colleagues to ensure that Democrat colleagues to ensure that we're up to full strength as fast as possible, so that we can continue. We added a further 12 debates to our waiting list and attempted to to utilise the time we've been allocated as effectively as you can.

So I understand we're going to get a half day on Thursday, the 18th of June, and there will be a need for a business of the House motion so that we can have the DSIT Select Committee give their Select Committee statement. I'd ask the leader to do that. That'll be followed by a debate on the infected Blood compensation scheme. The business in Westminster Hall on the 11th of June will be a Select Committee statement from the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, followed by a debate on freedom of religion and then followed by a debate on secondary breast cancer.

On Tuesday the 16th of June, there will be a debate on community hospitals, and on Thursday the 18th of June, a debate on safeguarding human rights in supply chains, followed by another debate to be confirmed. I understand that we are due to get the estimates date debates soon, and I'd be grateful if the leader could announce when those will be. We have set a deadline now for requests for debates of Friday the 12th of June, so not much time. We invite requests for debates from select committees and individuals accordingly, and will obviously determine those debates as soon as we can.

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, over the weekend was National No Smoking Day. And indeed, this this afternoon, we will be holding a celebration of 50 years of the all party parliamentary group on action, on Smoking and health. I've had the honour of chairing that, that all party group for the last 11 years. So it's an important thing. All members are welcome to come and join us in dining room A equally. Of course, we'll be celebrating the passing of the Tobacco and Vapes Act.

And indeed, I'd ask the leader if he could arrange for the Health Minister, one of the health Ministers, to come and give a statement to the House on what the next steps are after the passing of the act, in terms of both regulations and the path towards a smoke free England 2030.
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Douglas McAllister Portrait Douglas McAllister MP (West Dunbartonshire, Labour)
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Final question Douglas McAllister. Our Foreign Secretary is in India today for talks with her Indian counterpart, Mr. Jaishankar, my West Dunbartonshire constituent, West Dunbartonshire constituent, Jack Singh Johal, has spent more than eight and a half years in arbitrary detention in an Indian arbitrary detention in an Indian prison. On 22nd April this year, UN experts concluded that his prolonged detention amounts to torture. International law is unequivocal on the use of torture, and the UN has called for his immediate release.

So can I ask the Leader of the House to ensure that the Foreign Secretary provides this House with an update or a statement upon her return, confirming that not only was my constituents case raised today, but that she insisted on his immediate release. And does he agree that there can be no higher priority for her trip than securing the freedom of a young man from Dumbarton, unjustifiably

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imprisoned for almost nine years? Madam Deputy Speaker and my hon.

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Madam Deputy Speaker and my hon. Friend has consistently raised his concerns about this case, both with myself and indeed the Foreign myself and indeed the Foreign Office Ministers, and I pay tribute to him for that. We do continue to raise concerns about Mr. Johal's raise concerns about Mr. Johal's prolonged detention. We raised that with the Indian government and continue to provide consular support to him and to his family,
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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Wellbeing and Schools Act 2026, which received Royal Assent in April. It has enabled the most significant overhaul of children's social care in a generation. The whole system reset that is needed to shift money, staff and attention to shift money, staff and attention to earlier intensive help for families rather than late stage crisis management is now underway, supported by over £3 billion in funding. But I want to use this statement, Madam Deputy Speaker, to focus on the care and leaving care systems that form an essential part of children's social care.

I am publishing the Enduring Relationships strategy that sets out how we will deliver that change. In 2022, I published the Independent Review of Children's Social Care, a review that was informed by listening directly to thousands of people with experience of the care system. What I heard then, and have heard since, is that our care system and leaving care system are too often breaking, rather than building lifelong loving relationships, care can leave young people isolated, lonely and lacking belonging.

This heightens vulnerability to poor mental health, unstable housing and unemployment. Within the review, I called for a system where every young person would leave care with someone who loves them. A simple goal, but one that is not the central focus of our current system. At present, care often prioritises the management of professional anxiety over the nurturing of lasting, enduring relationships that care experienced people need in order to feel loved and safe. We see this in children being sent to grow up in homes far away from their community, therefore rupturing their school career, their friendships and their family relationships.

We see this in the rules that mean foster carers are not trusted to make the day to day decisions about whether the child they have in their care can have an overnight stay with a friend, or have a haircut without seeking permission from a social worker. We see it when the young person turning 18 is pushed towards living independently, when what they really need is a housing and social support model that helps them build community. The strategy I have published today sets out how we will make creating a loving tribe around every care experienced young person.

The central obsession of the care system. To enable this, our reforms cover four key areas. First, all of children's social care, not just the care system, must prioritise relationships. That means working to bring about change in families for children by strengthening the bonds found in existing family networks. This is at the heart of the family's first programme, where family group, decision making and family network support packages are bringing children's families and their wider networks into their care decisions at an earlier stage.

It also means unlocking the potential of kinship care. Every local authority will be required to publish a local kinship offer, giving families the clarity and support they need. We have also committed £126 million to seven kinship zones that are now up and running, which will test the impact of a non means tested allowance, equivalent to the fostering allowance for kinship families with a legal order. Second, we must create more stable and loving homes for children in care that support these long term relationships.

A shortage of foster homes is leading to too many children being moved far away from their communities, and the people they know. It is putting pressure on existing foster carers to be matched with children, where their needs and the relationships with their brothers or sisters cannot often be met, and it is leading to children being placed in residential care inappropriately at great cost, both in terms of money and poorer outcomes. We are therefore on the cusp of dramatically expanding a new approach to run our care system.

This is made up of new end to end fostering hubs where we will pull together individual local

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Authority, fostering teams into larger and more specialised fostering services with more fostering services with more resource and higher expectations on recruitment and support for carers. This is the main action that will This is the main action that will deliver the 10,000 additional places in foster care that we need by the end of this Parliament. It's by the end of this Parliament. It's backed with £88 million and includes funding for new innovation, grants to build extensions and home improvements for existing carers, and modernisation of the foster carer recruitment process.

This new system also depends on expanding regional care co-operatives, so that the majority of England will be covered by an RCC by the end of this year. RCS will give areas the scale to create the types of home that children in care need, and the leverage to drive out profiteering and poor quality practice. My department will use RCS as the vehicle to roll out a new approach to wraparound children who are on, or at risk of a deprivation of liberty order.

This programme, called Home Again, will de-escalate crises and be delivered in partnership with Health Services. I'll share more about this in the coming weeks. I've also been concerned about the lack of support and attention that has been given to those working in residential care. That is why we have launched an expert led review to assess the professional development offer for staff at children's homes, and set out instructions for change that we will action this autumn. Thirdly, we must support care experienced children transitioning into adulthood by ensuring we nurture and expand their long term relationships.

This is not to be confused with supporting their relationships with professionals, though that is important, but instead with people who can form a lasting family and tribe around care experienced people. That starts with what the system measures and how it is inspected. Later this year, a new metric to track the quality of enduring relationships at an individual level will be rolled out into the care and leaving care systems. Because whether we like it or not, what measures what gets measured often is the thing that gets done.

If we're serious about putting enduring relationships at the heart of the system, then the performance of the system itself needs to be judged on whether relationships around those in and leaving care are getting stronger or weaker. This will, of course, have implications for Ofsted inspection regime, with the new measure of relationships sitting at the heart of the system. We also need to support practitioners to change what they do so that enduring relationships are actually strengthened. That is why today I am launching a national sprint to roll out family finding services across England by the end of the next two years.

We know that the impact of who do you Think You Are style services can have on building stronger tribes around young people. We've already seen the impact of programmes like Lifelong Links. These services need to become the mainstream offer rather than pilots on the fringe of the system. And in the coming months, I will launch the new Staying Close programme that will shift the system away from its current focus on preparing young people for independence, and instead focus on providing homes for care leavers that build interdependence and connection.

This will mean fewer teenagers dropping off the care cliff at 18, being forced to live in a flat, lonely and isolated. Finally, something I am particularly proud of is that we will work with faith and belief organisations to design a new lifelong relationships ceremony to recognise the important bonds between care experienced adults and those who love them. Just as we have christenings and naming ceremonies. Britain is generous enough to also mark these wonderful and unique relationships and give hope that give hope and meaning.

I want these to start being offered this year. The most important thing for us in life are our relationships. The state often finds it hard to put itself at the service of building these loving relationships. In fact, too often it blocks or weakens them. That changes today by making one thing very clear of our care system above all else. Build enduring, loving relationships. I commend this statement to the House.
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Jack Rankin Portrait Jack Rankin MP (Windsor, Conservative)
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The shadow Minister Jack Rankin. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the Minister for advance sight of his statement. It is an honour to respond on behalf of the Britannic Majesty's most loyal opposition, particularly as we welcome much of the direction he has outlined in his statement on has outlined in his statement on behalf of the government today. Too often, children's social care is discussed only when tragedy strikes. Yet for thousands of children, foster carers, kinship carers and care experienced adults, these issues are daily realities.

They deserve serious and sustained attention from all sides of this House. As conservatives, we believe that strong families, strong communities and strong relationships are the foundation of a flourishing society. Government has a duty to protect vulnerable children, but we must recognise a simple truth the state can never replace the love, commitment and sense of belonging that family provides. One of the most powerful conclusions of the independent review of children's social care was that every young person should leave care with at least one loving, enduring relationship in their life.

That is not a part of political aspiration. It is a profoundly human one. It should concern us all that so many care experienced adults report feeling lonely and isolated during their childhood. Many of the themes in today's statement build on reforms that have enjoyed cross-party support for some time. Greater recognition of kinship care, stronger family networks, increased placement, stability and better outcomes for care leavers. These are objectives members across this House can unite behind. Personally, I particularly welcome the focus on kinship care.

Having recently met kinship carers in my constituency, I have seen first hand the remarkable role they play grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings and family friends stepping forward in difficult circumstances to provide not only a home but continuity, identity and belonging. I am proud that the previous conservative government launched England's first kinship care strategy. Kinship carers make extraordinary sacrifices to ensure children receive the love and support they need, and they deserve recognition for that contribution. May I ask the Minister about the Adoption and Special Guardianship Support Fund? Families rely on it and and worry about its future.

Will we see the results of that consultation and how will it interact with today's announcements? We also welcome the focus on foster care. For too long, we have relied on the dedication of foster carers while asking them to navigate systems that can be fragmented and bureaucratic. If fostering hubs can improve recruitment, strengthen support and increase placement stability, they deserve serious consideration. Perhaps the Minister might comment about how these hubs will be distributed across the country. Likewise, the ambition to reduce the number of children placed far from communities is one we strongly support.

Every unnecessary move risks disrupting education, friendships and family connections. Stability matters. Almost half of foster carers say they have had an unfilled space for a child in care in the past two years, often because they are waiting for a suitable match. What will today's strategy do to improve matching and make the system easier to navigate? For carers ready to provide a home? Madam Deputy Speaker, Conservatives have long understood the importance of society's little platoons. The families, communities, faith groups and voluntary organisations that sit between individuals and the state.

Many charities and community groups already provide extraordinary support to vulnerable children and care leavers. Their contribution should never be underestimated. On this side of the House, we also welcome the Minister's determination to improve outcome for care leavers. Too many still face a cliff edge when they leave care, with disproportionately poor outcomes in housing, employment and mental health. I would welcome further detail on the new metric to track the quality of the enduring relationships built by children in care. How will the government measure such relationships, and how will this be reflected in Ofsted inspections? Ultimately, the success of these reforms will be judged not by strategies or structures, but by outcomes.

Will more children experience stable placements? Will fewer be moved repeatedly? Will more young people leave care with secure housing and employment opportunities, strong relationships, and will local authorities have the workforce capacity to deliver these aspirations? Children who enter care have often experienced circumstances most of us would struggle to imagine. They deserve not just safety, but hope. Not just protection, but belonging. Where the government acts to strengthen families, support kinship carers, improve foster care and build lasting relationships, they will find us willing partners.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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Minister. and I thank the hon. Member for the spirit in which he shared his remarks and the questions he put to remarks and the questions he put to me. And he's right to say that this requires serious and sustained attention from the House and from attention from the House and from parties across every corner of this chamber. I think it's worth highlighting to people the disparity between what care experienced people tell us about their experience compared to the general population.

22% of care leavers are always or often lonely. 22%. 15% do not have a really good friend. And those numbers, compared to the general population, are so much higher, which illustrates why this is all so important. Turning to the questions that were asked by the hon. Member, the adoption of Special Guardianship Support Fund is hugely important. That's why we've increased the fund by 10% this year to ensure we can reach more families and young people. With that support, the consultation response will come later this year.

The department at the moment is focussed on implementing changes and improvements that we set out in the consultation a few months ago. The fostering hubs will be allocated in the next few weeks. I'm hoping to make an announcement next month on both the fostering hubs and RCS that will be rolled out and extended further. And in terms of improving matching regional care cooperatives, play will play an important role in the future system in being able to get a much better sense.

Looking ahead in the years to come of the actual sufficiency that's required for children that are in that area. Finally, the new metric the department has worked with foundations to set out a range of a shortlist of options of standardised measures that are valid and that can be used at a practitioner and young person level that doesn't create undue bureaucracy or distract from the important relationships that need to take place in those conversations. And I'm confident we can find and roll out a measure this year that will achieve that goal.
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Helen Hayes Portrait Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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Committee chair Helen Hayes thank you, Madam. >> Deputy Speaker. Can I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister for his commitment to make a difference for children in the a difference for children in the care system and for care leavers? It is a shocking reality that our It is a shocking reality that our care system has, over a long period of time, become so far removed from putting the essential needs of children and young people for secure, loving relationships at the heart of everything it does.

Can I acknowledge the magnitude of the shift that the Minister has announced today? We don't often have moments like this in this House. We should have them more often. But I know from having spoken to many, many care leavers over a long period of time, the difference that what the Minister has announced today has the potential to make for them, and I welcome that. Many of his commitments today are consistent with recommendations from the Education Select Committee in our report. Can I ask the Minister for further detail on two areas? Firstly, his assurance that as he works to deliver this transformation of the care system and support for care experienced people, that he retains a focus on restoring the early intervention and family support that prevents children from entering the care system in the first place, and secondly, with the focus on regional care cooperatives.

Can I press him on the geography of regional care cooperatives? They cover quite large geographies, and it is possible for a child to be placed within a regional care cooperative and still to be placed a long way from home. So can I ask for his attention on that issue? And in the detail of delivering on regional care cooperatives, attention is paid to the distance that children will need to travel within them. Thank you.
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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A question to thank my hon. Friend the chair of the Education Friend the chair of the Education Select Committee for not just those remarks, but also the work of the Select Committee over over the last Select Committee over over the last few years in keeping a focus on these issues and for her support these issues and for her support for the government to always go further and take more actions to improve outcomes for these children and their families. And in answering the first point, the fundamental shift that is required in this Parliament is that we start to see funding across the children's social care system get rebalanced away from that late stage crisis, spending towards earlier intensive support for families.

And that's not something we're leaving to an annual check in every quarter. Myself and my officials are monitoring the pounds that are being spent by children's social care across the country, and we will be prepared to support and, if necessary, intervene if the system reset that we've expected is not being seen on the ground in how spending is being made. And finally, on the geography of RCS, these will be large in some areas at the footprint of a mayoral combined authority or multiple mayoral combined authorities.

But there will be a specific target for how they create homes that keep children within a close proximity of their existing communities.
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Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Munira Wilson. Deputy Speaker. I have no doubt it's a moment of immense pride for the Minister to be able to announce, the Minister to be able to announce, as government policy, many things he recommended in his own independent review, and we welcome independent review, and we welcome them today. Madam Deputy Speaker, every child deserves to have deep, trusting, lifelong relationships. And yet, as we've heard, too many children in care are torn away from those that they are able to trust and able to keep in touch and have the stability they need to enter adulthood.

And we know from the report published last week that care experienced children at age 17 are five times more likely to not be in education, employment or training than the general population. And as Milburn says, the care system produces an intense concentration of changes at precisely the ages when continuity matters most. So liberal Democrats welcome today's announcement, the strategy, the accompanying investment and this marked shift away from harmful short term thinking and a transactional system towards a holistic approach that puts the child front and centre of decision making alongside long term relationships.

The Minister will know that my noble friend in the other place, Baroness Tyler, campaigned hard to close a loophole that prevented children in care from being able to contact siblings not in care, and we hope today's announcement will build on her brilliant campaigning. Now, as a Minister alluded to, the number of children living in care more than 20 miles away from home has increased by 41% in the last decade, which has damaging long term impact on their relationships. When will we see a reduction in the number of children living in care? Children in care, living far from their families and friends? What are the current accountability measures when children are moved to the other side of the country, when it's not in their best interest? And how can this accountability improved through the regional care cooperatives? Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister referenced the new financial allowance pilot for kinship carers.

He knows that I and my party have long been campaigning on this issue, and I very, very much hope that he will move at pace to work with the Treasury to scale these pilots up quickly nationwide. He knows how beneficial it is to put care kinship carers allowances on a par with foster carers allowances, and I urge them to work with Ministers in the Department for business to ensure statutory relief for kinship carers is part of the parental review. And finally, as the adoption of special guardianship support has been mentioned, I notice.

I note that he's increased the fund overall, but the cuts to the individual grants still persist, which he knows are damaging to those families. So please, will he consider reinstating those grants? Thank you.
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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I thank the hon. Member for those questions. And again, with the spirit in which she has contributed to this debate and also for her leadership on these issues, because I know that she has spent a because I know that she has spent a lot of time in this place raising many of these points. Time and again, she is right to highlight the work of the noble Baroness Tyler in the other place. And also I'd like to pay tribute to the Member for South Shields in this place, both of them working on a cross-party basis, have long highlighted the importance of brothers and sisters in the care system.

And when we talk about relationships, it can often be relationships with siblings that are the most important. I want to see distant placements start to come down in this Parliament. The. The leading indicators that we would see for that would be us being able to expand. And we're monitoring the numbers of the expansion of fostering at the moment. We need to start seeing those numbers go up in a big way so that the homes are being created close to where children already live, so that there isn't the need for the distance placements that are being made.

And the accountability for this, we need greater visibility on those numbers in the system for sure. But also, if the metric that I was talking about in the statement is embedded across the system, we will actually start to see those relationships and the strength of them. You know, you will speak to a young person who, if they've been moved two hours away from their home community. I spoke to a young woman earlier this week where that had happened. It was impossible for her to keep the quality of relationship that she wanted to with her father, which was safe.

And we need to measure that. That needs to be the central focus, and then everything else will flow from it, including the location of those placements. And then finally on the kinship allowance. The take up has been impressive already. It's only a few weeks into being rolled out, and I've looked at the data. I'm looking forward to going to Grimsby soon, hopefully with the with my hon. Friend to see what one of the areas that's actually more successful than the others. At the moment.

There's a competition underway to see the success of that programme.
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Melanie Onn Portrait Melanie Onn MP (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes, Labour)
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Melanie Onn thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I congratulate the Minister today on managing to unite the whole House around this issue. A rare moment I around this issue. A rare moment I declare an interest as the chair of the Kinship Care APPG, which is Secretary by Family rights group, and I just want to reference the the lifelong links as a Minister has done programme, which has really been a game changer and I think is like a proof of concept for the ambitions that the Minister has set out today, that this approach really can make significant changes for young people as they go through their lives.

One of the questions that I would like to ask is about the family finding approaches that the Minister mentioned as £8.4 million to roll that out. Has he got some more information around timescales for that? And I also recognise that he mentioned dolls, a deprivation of liberty orders in his in his statement, and there was a Supreme Court judgement on Tuesday around deprivation of liberty and the changes to the acid test set within the Cheshire West. Judgement. Is that going to have any bearing on this being rolled out? Is there any further guidance that's going to be coming out in the interim between now and the review? That's expected to take place at the beginning of next year? And would you join me in congratulating the North East Lincolnshire Council fostering team? Because they have been doing enormous putting in enormous efforts to support foster friendly employer schemes.

So all across the borough you will see orange stickers declaring that people are foster friendly employers. I think it's really raised awareness and has done a huge amount to boost fostering in North East Lincolnshire. And of course, he's welcome to come to my constituency. Any time you.
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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For those questions. Firstly, on >> For those questions. Firstly, on the family finding program that we're announcing today to be extended and and taken further, the extended and and taken further, the aim is to have this be rolled out across the whole of England. So everywhere within the next two years, the procurement for that starts today and it will be swift. We are looking to find an organisation that can support us to not just deliver a programme, as has been done over the last few years, as I describe a sort of pilot or a programme that sits alongside or on top of existing services, but one which can work with local areas to really embed in the core of how social workers and PA are currently operating.

The the features of those sorts of models, so that this becomes completely mainstream within the next two years. So it is a it's a bold goal to try and do that, but we absolutely need to help shift the time and practice of social workers and PA s there'll be changes that we need to make to some of the statutory guidance and regulation in order to free up social workers and PA s to be able to do that. But that's absolutely the right decision in terms of the deprivation of liberty orders and the judgement that was referenced earlier this week.

We'll of course, look really closely at that, but we don't expect that that will make any material impact on the Home Again programme that we're looking to roll out again this summer. And finally, I'd be delighted to congratulate her fostering team in her local authority. I've seen the videos and I was inspired when I saw them.
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Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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Yeah. >> So I thank my hon. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow for the question and forgetting Harlow into his question. It's a really into his question. It's a really good it's a really good final question to end on, because I want question to end on, because I want any young person in care, any care leaver, any care experienced person in this country to know that we are now working towards a common goal that's supported across this House to ensure that they get people in their life who love them, their people, not lanyard wearing professionals.

They're important, but their own tribe. And if we can get that done, if we can get that right as a country, and I absolutely believe we can, because all the examples I've shared, all the things that are in the strategy are things already happening across England. It's a case of spreading them and mainstreaming them. If we can do that, it will completely transform outcomes, whether it's young people not in education, employment or training. It will improve mental health. It will bring down the number of young care experienced people who complete suicide.

And it will mean we are

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lucky enough as a country to have these brilliant young people celebrated and achieving. Yeah.

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Yeah. That is the end of the statement on enduring relationship strategy for children's social care. Will the front bench wish to shuffle the front bench wish to shuffle over Point of order? I call Nick Timothy on a point of order in connection with the Code of Conduct to rectify a failure to declare.
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Olivia Bailey Portrait Olivia Bailey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Education) (Equalities) (Reading West and Mid Berkshire, Labour)
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so this year. As the Minister for equalities, I have spoken before at this Dispatch Box about growing up this Dispatch Box about growing up in the shadow of section 28 and what my teenage self would think what my teenage self would think about me standing here today. The life I have today is a proud lesbian, a member of Parliament, a wife and a mother simply would not have been possible without the have been possible without the progress that was fought for, won and secured in this House and in this House.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it was often a Labour government that paved the way. A Labour government that repealed section 28, a Labour government that ended the disgraceful ban on LGBT people serving in our armed forces. A Labour government that introduced civil partnerships, adoption rights and gender recognition, and a Labour government that delivered the landmark Equality Act. Madam Deputy Speaker, this Labour government is building on that proud legacy. We have acted to right the historic wrongs committed against LGBT+ veterans. We have equalised strands of hate crime legislation.

We are funding Lgbt+ focussed domestic abuse services. We have committed to end new HIV transmissions in England by 2030, and we're investing millions to promote and protect Lgbt+ rights globally. And, Mr. Speaker, Madam Deputy Speaker, excuse me. Who could forget that we now have the gayest parliament in history, a parliament filled with colleagues, many of whom are here today, who continue to break barriers. And if I just mention a few, my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth, whose tireless work to tackle hate crime will leave a lasting legacy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow and Gateshead East, whose work on banning conversion practices with the Council of Europe is an inspiration to me personally and my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey, my first boss in this place, who I hope will forgive me for observing that she was championing Lgbt+ equality in this House before some hon. Members were even born. And there are so many others across this House who I don't have time to mention today. Many in this room.

But let me say that I am proud, Madam Deputy Speaker, to serve alongside them all. Madam Deputy Speaker, I remember my first London pride with LGBT Labour like it was yesterday, walking through our capital alongside thousands of Lgbt+ people. Genuinely made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. There was something profoundly joyous and moving about, marching openly through the streets where for generations, Lgbt+ people had been forced to hide who they were. For so many years, people had lived with fear and shame and isolation.

Yet there we were, together, visible and unapologetic. And finally, I wasn't alone. Despite growing up feeling I should be ashamed of who I was, I had found my voice and my community. And Madam Deputy Speaker, it certainly was a party, and I will spare the House some of the stories. But pride is more than just a celebration. It's a protest. Marching as a proud lesbian was a radical act of protest. It still is. Pride is about celebrating the progress we've made, yes, but it's also about acknowledging the work that we still need to do.

And, Madam Deputy Speaker, I fear we do have much more work to do. Progress, once achieved, is never permanently secured. Even today, especially today, it must be defended, renewed and extended. Too many people still experience discrimination, abuse and exclusion because of who they are or who they love, and trans people in particular, continue to face levels of hostility that should have no place in modern Britain. Many, many hon. Members will today speak about Lgbt+ constituents who are anxious about the direction of public debate, particularly their trans constituents, and I thank them for their constructive engagement and advocacy.

I want to take the time to acknowledge that the government has laid the EHR updated draft code of practice before Parliament. As hon. Members will know, the updated draft code reflects the Supreme Court's judgement that within the Equality Act 2010, sex means biological sex and that there remain protections for trans people against discrimination, harassment or victimisation on the basis of gender reassignment. It does not remove those legal protections for trans people, nor does it remove the legal framework that allows them to be recognised as their acquired gender.

Outside of the Equality Act, we firmly believe that it is possible to lawfully protect single sex spaces, while also ensuring that trans people access the services they need and retain protections against discrimination and harassment. I understand the stress and anxiety this process has caused for many, and my priority is that we can move forward together with compassion for all who continue to be impacted. The fundamental principle is that everyone, including trans people, deserve to live their lives with

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dignity, safety and respect. That point with my. I thank my hon. Friend for.

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Friend for. Giving way to making a very powerful speech, and while I understand the intent behind the guidance, many of my constituents are concerned about its practical effect. It's one thing to write guidance for a world in which guidance for a world in which everyone behaves reasonably and respectfully. It is another one to respectfully. It is another one to ensure that vulnerable people are protected in the way the world actually is. Can the Minister provide some additional reassurance to the House that the government and the Ehrc will keep the guidance under review and act swiftly, should its implementation lead to unintended consequences for trans

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and gender non-conforming people? Yeah. I thank him for his important

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I thank him for his important intervention and the very important points he makes. And I would just like to restate that. As the Supreme Court said, trans people have rights enshrined in law, and it is duty bound on all of us to it is duty bound on all of us to uphold and defend those rights. But uphold and defend those rights. But unfortunately, Madam Deputy Speaker, the lives of trans people are all too often being used as a political football, and we have been living in a political climate made infinitely more toxic by the actions of a few, including, unfortunately, some members of this House, including representatives of the Reform Party, who believe that families like mine are not stable.

A party that appears to be defending pride events and tearing down pride flags across the country. A party that is supporting a candidate that reportedly called Lgbt+ people fighting for equality, attention seeking and said that they were making a big song and dance about it. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am not much of a singer or a dancer, but I am certainly proud to stand with the Lgbt+ community and I refuse to stop working towards equality for every single one of my constituents just because it makes the Reform Party uncomfortable.

So I want to say.

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Chris. Thank you. I just wanted to say to the Minister who's given an incredibly powerful speech, and incredibly powerful speech, and actually, I'm already welling up before the Member for Luton speaks. I just want to say to her that I just want to say to her that actually, if we didn't have some of the changes in the laws that allowed people like her to be in

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this place and doing what she's doing, and this place would be far worse for it. So I welcome this. Yeah. Thank him for that lovely

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Thank him for that lovely intervention and for all that he does for for this House and for his constituents. So Harlow. Sorry, Harlow, I missed my chance. I'm so sorry. Look, I want to say very clearly from this Dispatch Box that I recognise the community's fear and anxiety. And when public debate becomes toxic, it has consequences in people's everyday lives, in schools, in workplaces, online, in access to services, in whether people feel safe simply being themselves and to.

And those

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consequences all too often manifest into violence and hate. I thank her for giving way.

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I thank her for giving way. She's making a really important point. And the, the, you know, first action of many reform councils to action of many reform councils to tear down pride flags and ban pride events or defund them, really speaks to who they are and their speaks to who they are and their values. And they are not the values I think of the vast majority of British people. She talks about the British people. She talks about the importance of supporting the Lgbtq+ community in our workplaces.

Should know that the government has today accepted all of the recommendations of my noble friend, the law Lord. Man's report into antisemitism in the NHS. I really welcome that. My only question is around political symbols in in the NHS. My view is that the pride flag is not a political symbol, it's a symbol of inclusion. Will she urge will she sort of work with with the Department of Health to ensure that when we are bringing forward that guidance, we don't, you know, fall into the trap of labelling pride flags, the prides and rules as political symbols.

And instead we continue to allow our NHS to demonstrate that it is an inclusive organisation for the Lgbt+ community.

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Firstly, can I associate myself with the remarks he made about the with the remarks he made about the early acts of Reform councils and say to him that absolutely the NHS say to him that absolutely the NHS is for all of us, including the Lgbtq+ community, and I'll make sure that my colleagues in the Department of Health have heard his Department of Health have heard his comments today. Madam Deputy Speaker, the consequences of hate Speaker, the consequences of hate of this debate often manifests into violence and hate, and hate crime against the Lgbtq+ community is still far too prevalent.

I spoke with LGBT+ domestic violence charity Gallup this week, who have had a 27% increase in hate crime calls in the past year. They told me how hate is becoming more normalised and perpetrators more emboldened in the way that they are targeting Lgbt+ people, from stranger abuse on the streets to physical violence. I am proud that this government has strengthened protections for Lgbt+ people through the Crime and Policing Act, ensuring that our community is properly protected from targeted abuse and violence.

We have equalised the law so that hate the hate crime committed on the basis of sexuality or gender identity, is treated the same as racially or religiously motivated hostility. The principle is straightforward nobody should live with the fear that their identity makes them a target. This was a manifesto commitment, and I was proud to stand on it, and I am delighted that we have delivered. I will also be proud to deliver on another manifesto commitment. Madam Deputy Speaker, a full trans inclusive ban on conversion practices.

Let us be clear about what conversion practices are. They are a very specific, insidious form of abuse that attempts to change who somebody is. LGBT people are told that who they are is wrong, that it's shameful, and that it can and should be changed. This isn't about banning legitimate therapy, explorative conversations, or prayer. All people in this country deserve to have access to open conversations about their identity, and this government is not seeking to change that. What we are seeking to ban is abuse, plain and simple.

These abhorrent practices are coercive, degrading, harmful and have caused profound trauma to Lgbt+ people for decades. And I hope that members across this House will agree with me that these practices have no place in modern Britain, and will support our work to ban them once and for all. I

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appreciate the point the. Government's making, and they've spoken at length about conversion spoken at length about conversion therapy banning bill. In fact, for nearly two years they've been speaking about the draft legislation coming forward. Can the legislation coming forward. Can the Minister give us a concrete timeline? Will we see it in 2026, timeline? Will we see it in 2026, or will the draft legislation be into next year or the year after?

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into next year or the year after? I thank her for her intervention, and I hope that she's gathered from the remarks that I've just made and that I will repeat again now, the absolute speed and determination with which I am focusing on this very important ban. Before I conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to recognise that while government has an important role to play in protecting Lgbt+ rights, lasting change is delivered every day by people and organisations working in communities across our country.

And I'm sure we'll hear lots of examples of this in the debate today. I have had the privilege of meeting remarkable organisations including Stonewall, gallop, the LGBT Foundation, the LGBT consortium and the Terrence Higgins Trust, amongst many others, and these organisations help people through some of the most difficult moments in their lives, challenge injustice and build stronger communities. We owe them our gratitude and we have a responsibility to support their work. And that is why this government is taking Pride Month so seriously.

Being loud and proud about our commitment to the LGBT community throughout this month. Departments across government will be hosting events and activities that celebrate Lgbt+ communities and highlight the issues that they face from the Ministry of Justice, engaging with LGBT legal professionals to DEFRA work exploring the experiences of Lgbtq+ people in rural communities. Colleagues across government are playing their part, but I also know that our commitment to pride is not just confined to a single month. We will stand with the Lgbt+ community all year round because that's what this Labour government stands for hope and unity over division and hate.

It's a simple principle that I hope members across this House can agree on, that every person in this country should be able to live freely, safely and with dignity, regardless of who they are or who they love. That's the principle that we reaffirm today, and that is

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the commitment this government will continue to defend. Hey. The question is that this House

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has considered Pride Month, and I call the shadow Minister, Stuart Andrew. Thank you very much, Madam

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And may I begin by apologising to members of the House that, unfortunately, I have sought that, unfortunately, I have sought permission for Mr. Speaker to leave early today because I've got a long standing event in my constituency
13:31
Stuart Andrew Portrait Rt Hon Stuart Andrew MP (Daventry, Conservative)
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standing event in my constituency that have to be true. So I do apologise. I won't be here for. It's not a pride. I'm afraid. But I am very, very happy to be leaving the capable hands of my hon. Friend for the rest of this very important debate. And can I say what a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Lady? I thought that was a really great speech and very personal, and I'm equally grateful to have the opportunity to open this important debate on behalf of His Majesty's opposition, because Pride Month is a celebration.

It is a celebration of progress that has been made of lives that have lived openly, of families formed, of communities built, and of people who no longer have to hide who they are. But it is also a reminder, a reminder of why that progress was necessary in the first place, and why it can never be taken for granted. For me, this debate is deeply personal. I have seen changes in my lifetime that I could never have imagined when I was growing up.

As a young gay man on the Isle of Anglesey back then. Community was not always easy to find, and I've joked before many times in this house that it often felt like I was literally the only gay in the village. But behind the humour there is obviously a serious point for many people, particularly in small towns, in families, workplaces or faith communities. Being LGBT can still feel a very lonely place indeed, and that is why one of the reasons why pride still matters.

I'm very proud of my good friend and former member of this House, Eric Ollerenshaw, who was one of the first five people on the very first pride march back in the early 1970s. And he describes that at the time, even the police were spitting at them where, you know, it's just unbelievable when you think of that today. And it is not only about big parades, it's not about just the flags or the public celebrations. It's about the teenager who feels completely alone.

It's about the person who is quietly calculating every single word they say. I've spoken before about being attacked and hospitalised when I was younger, just because of who I am walking down that road, being followed by three men being called a queer, and that fear of knowing what was coming next was terrifying. And I am so glad that we now live in a country that has changed enormously

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since then. Of course. In the spirit that this debate is, I would like to say to the hon. Gentleman, although we might not agree on everything politically that this place is better because

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he is here. And I think we should recognise that as well. Yeah. I'm going to cry in a minute.

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I'm going to cry in a minute. Thank you. And he didn't even second opportunity to miss Harlow. I mean, I'm getting worried about the hon. Gentleman. Prejudices. You know that, as I say, that experience has stayed with me because it reminds me why progress matters and why it can never be taken for granted. Prejudice may look different today, but it has not vanished. And there are still people around the world and some people in this country who cannot come out or live the life they want to live.

And that is why pride is not just a month in the calendar. It is a statement that those people are not forgotten. It also why what happens in this house also matters. The law can change lives. It can tell people whether they are recognised, protected and valued. And that is why the passage of the Equal Marriage Act in 2013 remains one of the proudest moments of my time in this Parliament. No party has a monopoly on progress. People from all parties and none have fought for the rights and dignity of LGBT, LGBT people.

But I am proud that conservatives played a part in delivering equal marriage, and I am proud of the progress conservative governments made on HIV prevention, testing and treatment, including HIV testing Week and the legalisation of HIV test self-testing kits. I also want to pay tribute to the Terrence Higgins Trust and to Richard Angel, its CEO, CEO for all those and all those who have been campaigning to end new HIV transmissions by 2030. And as the Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, I absolutely back the government in their ambition to see that happen.

It is something that when I was growing up, you never thought we would see the end of. In fact, you know, it was so terrifying at the time. And the fact that we now have this goal in sight is just truly remarkable and wonderful. I also want to say clearly that LGBT, as the Shadow Secretary of State for health, that LGBT health matters too. That means keeping a strong focus on HIV prevention, testing and treatment, making sure stigma continues to be broken down, and recognising the particular mental health pressures some LGBT people face and ensuring everyone can use the NHS without fear, shame or discrimination.

It also means remembering older LGBT people, including those who lived through the Aids crisis, who should never feel forced back into the closet when they need social care or support later on in life, or if they end up in residential or nursing homes. And I know that that has been happening and it's something we need to address. So I hope the Minister, when winding up, might be able to update the House on. And I know she mentioned some of the work that's continuing on HIV prevention, but equally, how that progress is going to be maintained because the clock is ticking and I'm conscious there's still quite a bit to do.

And about what work government is planning to do on older LGBT people. As we think about their care needs in the future. I too want to address the Equality Act Code of Practice and the Supreme Court ruling because they have been very prominent in recent days. The law is now clear that for the purposes of the Equality Act, sex means biological sex. Single sex spaces must be protected where they are needed, particularly where privacy, dignity and safeguarding are at stake.

That clarity matters for women, for service providers, for staff who need to know what the law requires of them, and for the NHS. Decisions about female wards, intimate care, changing rooms and women only services cannot be left to confusion or inconsistent local interpretation. But we should also be able and capable of saying two things at once. We can say that sex means biological sex, and that single sex spaces must be protected. And we can also say that trans people must be treated with dignity, respect, compassion and love.

Those positions are not mutually exclusive. They are both part of a serious, humane, lawful approach. So I hope the Minister can set out what the code of practice means in practice for the NHS, including female wards and the other issues I mentioned. NHS staff, patients and trusts need the clarity on how the law should be applied. This House should be able to approach these issues without pretending they are simple, but also without pretending that clarity is unkind. And that is also why I think it is a mistake.

When pride events suggest that political parties should have no place in them. The banning of political parties in some of these is really disappointing, because pride does not belong to one political tribe. The people elected to this House and the LGBT organisations within all of our parties have helped to deliver real change, and I pay tribute to them all and thank them for what they have done. LGBT people are conservatives, their Labour members, their Liberal Democrats, their Greens, their nationalists, their independents and people of no party at all.

They should not be made to feel unwelcome. In fact, I want to see more gay and lesbian people in politics and banning political parties from pride flies in the face of its meaning, in my view. And I also want to mention lesbians specifically. Too often their voices are treated as an afterthought in debates about LGBT rights, lesbian women have been central to the history of pride, activism and community life. Their experiences matter in healthcare, safety, dignity, and debates about sex based rights.

Pride Month should never allow the l of in LGBT to become silent. No one should have to hide who they are in order to feel safe. That means taking anti LGBT hate crime seriously. Too many incidents still go unreported because people think they are too minor or worry they will not be taken seriously. They should be taken very seriously indeed. And that is true in sport, in schools, in workplaces, in healthcare, in families, and in public life. Pride is a celebration of how far we have come, but it is also a promise that we will remember those who came before us stand with those who still feel alone and help the next generation live more freely, more safely, and more honestly than the last.

That is what Pride Month

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means to me. And that is why this debate matters. I call the Select Committee

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I call the Select Committee chair, Sarah Owen. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to start by saying it is a real honour to follow the speeches made by the Minister and speeches made by the Minister and the shadow Minister, both of their commitment to furthering LGBTQ plus commitment to furthering LGBTQ plus rights in this place and outside should be honoured. And I agree with my friend from Harlow. I got Harlow in. That you both are indeed an inspiration now to everybody else in this House, but also, I hope, future generations, so that we do see more diversity within this place because boy, don't we benefit from it.

Yeah. And before I start about this pride month, it's another equalities debate. And again, it's pushed to a Thursday where many MPs have returned to their constituencies. And the press are focusing on their Sunday news
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Sarah Owen Portrait Sarah Owen MP (Luton North, Labour)
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stories. And it's really disappointing to see so many people that would have wanted to have been that would have wanted to have been here, that cannot be here. It is pretty embarrassing that there is not a single backbencher from the Conservatives, that there is just one representative from Lib Dems, from Greens, from SNP. When I know that there would be more voices that there would be more voices willing to be here if Parliament gave the time to equalities debates gave the time to equalities debates that it should do.

I have written to the procedures committee about this, because these should be a priority, running across all departments and all the work that we carry out in this place. They're

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not an add on at the end. If we're only working for some of society, we are not working for all. Yeah.

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Yeah. So I'm usually excited about Pride Month. I usually love a good party and unlike the Minister, I

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party and unlike the Minister, I like a bit of dancing and I'm it. Yay! It's a chance to celebrate. It's

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It's a chance to celebrate. It's a chance to come together. Absolutely. It's a chance to understand, to grow, to learn. Pride is definitely more of a protest, though, this year than it is a party. Sadly, I always say that progress isn't inevitable, but I hoped it would never regress as quickly as I have seen it now. It's a disgraceful environment where people's genitalia are up for debate, where UK politicians proudly question the ability of same sex couples to provide loving and safe homes for children, and the blatant demonising of a tiny, vulnerable part of our society under the guise of protecting women and girls.

I've said it before in this House and I'll say it again my safety, both physical and emotional, has only been threatened by men. Men who were born. Men. Men with power, men unaccountable for their actions. Men who have never faced justice. Men who would never be stopped by a sign on a toilet door. These are the people who threaten our safety and our society until they are the focus of the debate about women and girls safety. No amount of single sex spaces is going to save any of us.

Scapegoating the trans community will not work. It will not make any of us safer. And take the latest iteration of the Ehrc code of practice. The inconsistencies are in there and make it unworkable and unjust. Challenge someone but don't cause harm or embarrassment. Challenge them. How is that possible? How do you prove? How do you disprove? Ask trans people to use a third space, but somehow get them to keep their rights to a private life? The Women and Equalities Select Committee will be questioning the Ehrc chair next week, so I'm minded.

Of the previous Minister's remarks from earlier this week that we must ask her about those details. But government, as well as the Ehrc, have to provide answers to the trans community, to businesses and to organisations and to the general public as a whole on how this sorry saga ends and is not inflamed further, because all I see is more litigation, more pain, more uncertainty, and more time and money spent solving a problem that most people didn't prioritise above the actual problems this country should be dealing with, such as the 97% of reported rapes that go unpunished.

CIS male perpetrators don't have to disguise themselves as anyone or anything to get away with the most hideous of crimes in this country, because they already are doing it. And on the whole, unfortunately, getting away with it. This distortion of the arguments about women's safety have had a devastating impact on trans people, with the focus on trans women and with trans men completely forgotten from this conversation, not to mention non-binary and intersex people. So let's bring it to the very real life impact this is having to the people that we represent.

I want to share a conversation now that I had yesterday. It's my constituent and my friend Tarana Heard, an 83 year old trans woman. We chatted yesterday. She discharged herself. I didn't know this at the time, but she had discharged herself from hospital so she could actually speak with me. Yesterday, Tarana told me this is how much it means to get her experience and her questions across to me and to fellow parliamentarians. I did have a go at her, and I told her that I'd rather her stay in hospital and her health was more important, but she disagreed.

She said, I'm 83. I've lived my life. This is about the future generations and the others that come next. This is more important than her own health. She put her health at risk to speak with me. This is how existential it feels right now for the trans community. She's always fought hard against bigotry. She's one of the most talented people I've seen with her hands, like she's a woodturner and she makes these fantastic, beautiful pens, and she does so many fantastic things with with pieces of wood that I could never imagine somebody could do without heavy machinery.

But she was a mechanical engineer. She owned her own business in Luton. When she transitioned, the local media covered it in a kind of matter of fact way. But the sun phoned up and said we'd love to cover it. We'd love to cover it. Don't worry, we're not going to send a reporter. We've got everything that we need from local news. We'll just send a photographer. So they took a photo of her and plastered on the headline Mechanic loses nuts, customers bolt.

That is disgusting. But to be honest, that seems almost mild compared to the vilification of the Lgbt+ community in some parts of the media nowadays. So her questions to the Minister and to everybody in this place, how can the safety of trans men and women be protected using the toilets of the opposite gender? How is it going to be policed? Are there even enough cubicles and toilets to deal with this proposed change? She discharged herself to tell me these questions.

But Trina was also terrified of being put on a man's ward. So her last question is where would she have been put to be treated? Which ward would she have been put on? She would never have felt comfortable on a man's ward. Would it have been dignified for her to have received treatment on a man's ward? Her words. I was born a male, but I've never been a man. I tried, but I failed. I've always felt female, even at school.

As a boy, I was bullied for being a sissy, so I left. The impact this has had on her life has been lifelong. Another Luton constituent is now having to walk considerable distances to use a toilet outside of a place of work. This is causing not just an emotional impact, but also a physical and potentially a financial one. If she cannot remain in the place of work without being outed against her will, where is her right to privacy? The Minister spoke about the Supreme Court being very clear that this should not impact a trans person's right to privacy.

Where is her right to privacy being protected because it's currently not? I've always believed unless we all enjoy progress, none of us truly are. If you care about human rights, you don't get to pick which human's rights you care about and which ones you do not. And LGBT rights and women's rights should be able to go hand in hand. Our committee heard from the Spanish Ministry of Equality on how they are leading the way in LGBT rights, ranking number one on the Ilga Europe's Rainbow map.

I'm not just jealous of the Spanish weather. I am jealous of Spanish equality. They have developed a helpline for LGBT people in Spain to provide support in instances of abuse, and are providing world leading fertility treatment, which is benefiting the Lgbt+ communities. Spain also recently appointed its first global LGBTQ plus rights envoy to advocate for the decriminalisation of same sex relations internationally. We can look to them as not just leaders in Europe, but across the world. And to add to this, Spain are also highly progressive in their approach to women's rights.

It's not one or the other, it's both. They have developed an advanced monitoring system, which police use to at risk assess and track cases as gender based violence and provide tailored protection to victims. Since the introduction of the system, the rate of femicide by a partner or ex-partner has decreased year on year in Spain. With these international examples, it's abundantly clear to me that despite what some of the loudest voices in this place and outside will tell you, it's not a case of women's rights versus trans rights, women's safety versus LGBT freedom.

No, we can and should all live alongside each other, not just with dignity, but with joy, with proper celebration, proper understanding and proper love. When we take male violence against women seriously, we are protecting all women and girls, and we are acknowledging the real villain behind this crisis. Rather than scapegoating the trans community, it's hard to find some reasons to be cheerful, but perhaps the world of sport may offer some as it is full of Lgbt+ legends, just like our Parliament is.

Women's football and rugby continue to provide incredible role models for young women and actually women of any age who are grappling with their sexuality across the WSL, the Lionesses, the Red Roses and English cricket, there are women living their truth in loving relationships with each other, married, raising children, being themselves publicly and proudly and absolutely knocking it out of the park. So the majority of male footballers, though, displaying their girlfriends and wives online alongside their family, seems completely normal.

They take it for granted that society accepts and celebrates their personal lives. But for our lesbian and bisexual athletes in same sex relationships, each time they do an anniversary post or kiss their partner in the stands, they are unwittingly making a statement and risking abuse. I want to thank them for their everyday bravery and hope that it won't be a brave act for very much

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longer, that it will just be a normal act. Yeah.

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Yeah. We also need to acknowledge once again that there are still no male out premier Premier League out premier Premier League footballers and to be honest, who can blame them? Homophobia, alongside racism and misogyny, alongside racism and misogyny, continues to be a rampant disease amongst both match going fans and trolls. Online hatred doesn't stay in one lane, it never does. If ever you want to see an example of that, look at what reform councils are doing with pride flags.

They're not stopping, replied flags. No,

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they're going with Ukrainian flags. It will always be somebody. Yeah.

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Yeah. Because if you don't have the answers to the problems facing you, it's easier to blame somebody else it's easier to blame somebody else than it is to really look inwards and look at ourselves and look at how we can further our country how we can further our country together. I know this this week, together. I know this this week, Millwall FC released a pride playbook to advise on connecting with Lgbt+ teams. I hope this is the beginning of a new era in inclusivity in men's football, but I know we've got so much further to go.

There are seeds of hope across our culture and society for LGBT people, and that I want to end on. February saw HBO drama heated

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rivalry break viewing records across the world. That was you watching it.

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I am pretty sure that a lot of us enjoyed that programme, so it's celebrating a particularly fiery celebrating a particularly fiery LGBT love story, whilst also channelling new fans into winter sports. I love ice hockey. It's like I am so up for all full contact sports but role in a good contact sports but role in a good love story. Happy days Darren Pride have raised enough money to throw the biggest pride in their history

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and if there is an example of love winning, that is it. Yeah.

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Yeah. Especially in the face of hatred. Love will always win. Yeah. Hey hey.

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Yeah. Hey hey. With support from the local trade union movement, this has to trade union movement, this has to be one of the examples of what we all must be fighting against in the future. And last October, King Charles unveiled the first mural dedicated to the LGBTQ plus, members of the British armed forces named an open letter. It honours servicemen and women who experienced homophobic abuse and rates of adoption amongst LGBT people have quadrupled over the past decade, with at least 20% of all adopted children now finding a loving home with a same sex couple.

And how dare any politician. How dare anybody say that that isn't the best place for a child. The best place for a child is always

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with a loving home. Yeah. And our Labour government, as we have heard today, is set to finally have heard today, is set to finally bring in an end to the painful, arcane practice of conversion therapy. The Trans Inclusive therapy. The Trans Inclusive Conversion Practice Bill, which was included in the King's Speech, should be coming and I can't wait should be coming and I can't wait to support it. And while the light behind the clouds may be hard to behind the clouds may be hard to find, and the rainbows really, really far in the distance from all that rain, it is important that we do find that glimmer of light, those rainbows this pride month.

Because I want to end with the words that Trina said to me yesterday. She said it's what her grandmother and her family had always said. It's something that my grandma had always said to me, and it really shouldn't be that difficult. Treat other people the way you would like to be treated.

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It's not that hard. I call the Liberal Democrat. Spokesperson Zoe Franklin.

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Spokesperson Zoe Franklin. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And may I just start to say I am so honoured to be the spokesperson, honoured to be the spokesperson, this debate and to speak after incredibly powerful speeches. But in particular, I want to in particular, I want to acknowledge the work of the hon. Member for Luton North and her words today. Thank you for all you words today. Thank you for all you do, and on human rights, and particularly for your advocacy for the trans community.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I follow what you have shared, but I, I, I know there'll be more to come in this chamber and I know there will probably be more tears. Pride month is a celebration of visibility, dignity and progress, but it should also be a moment of honesty. Despite the hard fought progress we have made as a nation,
13:58
Zöe Franklin Portrait Zöe Franklin MP (Guildford, Liberal Democrat)
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we are slipping backwards on the LGBT rights in this country. In LGBT rights in this country. In 2025, the UK fell six places to 22nd and Ilga Europe's LGBT rights ranking. And to put that into context, we were ranked number one in Europe in 2015. And when it in Europe in 2015. And when it comes to gender recognition rights, the UK now ranks in the bottom six the UK now ranks in the bottom six of 49 European countries. And I think that should concern every member of this House who believes in the fundamental rights of equality, freedom and human dignity.

Pride month matters because standing up for the LGBT community is ultimately about standing up for everyone's right to live openly, safely, and authentically. It says that no matter who you are, who you love, or how you present, you are equally valued and equally respected. And this House should remember that progress in LGBT equality has never been inevitable. Every single right was fought for by campaigners, activists and political allies who refused to accept the discrimination that is the status quo.

And our thanks should and does go to every single one of them. The Liberal Democrats are proud to have stood alongside that movement for decades. We fought to repeal section 28, the legislation which silenced LGBT people in schools and communities, and told an entire generation that they were who they were, was something that was shameful. I have two sons, and through them I have seen how different education is now for when I was at school, and I am incredibly grateful to see how education has changed.

And I can see how living as your authentic self has become something supported by schools and most inspiringly I've watched as so many young people have come through my door who are living and exploring who they are. And I look at them and I think we should all take inspiration from so many of the next generation who are just simply letting each other love who they want to love and be, who they want to be as a party.

The Liberal Democrats were also instrumental in delivering equal marriage with our equalities Minister, Lynne Featherstone, now Baroness Featherstone. In the other place, she led the fight inside government to make marriage equality a reality in this country. And I'm deeply proud that we led that fight, and I have been deeply moved to by the stories of couples who have who have generously shared with me about the change that that meant for them as a couple and for their families. Yet, in spite of all that progress, this year has been a particularly upsetting year for much of the LGBT community, especially trans, non-binary and intersex people.

Following the Supreme Court ruling on the definition of sex in the Equality Act. Like many members across this House, I have received deeply distressing accounts from constituents fearful of even being able to participate fully in public life going forward. And let me be clear trans rights and human rights are not in conflict. After the ruling, the government's responsibility was to provide clear and workable guidance. But the code of practice laid before Parliament just two weeks ago is, in its current form, exclusionary, unworkable and deeply concerning.

Even the government's own equality impact assessment acknowledges disproportionate harm to those with protected characteristics. It warns that women who do not conform to cultural expectations of what a woman should look like could face challenges simply to access a women only space. It acknowledges the negative impact on disabled people, with disability rights. UK warning against forcing trans and non-binary people into separate spaces. And most alarmingly, it explicitly states that some trans people could effectively be barred from both spaces aligned with their gender identity and those aligned with their birth sex, leaving them with no space in services at all.

That is not dignity, that is exclusion. I am personally worried for the whole trans community, but particularly for the next generation of trans men and women, with all the changes that are happening in the way that the LGBT community is spoken about here in the UK, with the stories that have already been shared about certain political parties and individuals, what is that saying to the next generation? What is the world that we are, we are giving as a legacy? We have to act now before it is too late.

That is why my hon. Friends Ed Davey and our Women and Equalities spokesperson, I, the hon. Lady, has been here very nearly two years. It's been rife. Today we must stop referring to members by their names but by their constituencies. Please, I do apologise. My best friend and Deputy Speaker and I. That is why my hon. Friend, whose constituencies have temporarily lost my brain, but my hon. Friends have called upon the government to withdraw the code and ensure this issue is properly scrutinised by Parliament.

The guidance of this significance shouldn't be simply should not be pushed through as a negative Statutory Instrument without proper democratic debate or a vote in this House and alongside parliamentary scrutiny, the code, there are urgent actions the government could take now. One meaningful and long overdue step is would be to finally implement a fully trans inclusive ban on conversion practices. And this was this goes back to 2018, when Theresa May's government in proposed it. And it still hasn't happened. And I know from attending so many pride events and talking with people about a ban, they just aren't aware that it isn't already in place.

And I frankly shocked that it isn't already in place. Now, the government did promise in the last King's speech to publish a draft bill, and you have the government have promised to do so in this King's speech, and I thank the Minister for her comments on this issue, but I do want to join the hon. Member for Aberdeen North in pressing the Minister for clarity on a timeline. The LGBT community cannot wait until the end of this session, only to see the promise broken yet again.

Conversion practices are barbaric. They are based on the offensive idea that LGBT people are somehow broken or in need of fixing. The practices, cause profound psychological harm, and have absolutely no place in a modern society. So I want to end by saying this Pride Month, let us celebrate the progress of the generation progress generations before us fought so hard to achieve, but also let us recognise the equality is never guaranteed and we are an incredibly fragile place at a time when LGBT people, particularly trans people, are increasingly being used as a political football and in divisive culture wars.

This house has a responsibility to stand firmly on the side of dignity, compassion and human rights because pride must always, always be more than a celebration. It must be a year round promise that we will keep fighting until everyone is truly free, to live openly and equally without fear. Thank you,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Madam Speaker. Tim Roca. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it's a privilege to follow such excellent contributions to this debate, particularly following the Member particularly following the Member for Guildford and the Member for Luton, who I thought gave an absolutely cracking speech this afternoon. I want to talk about the afternoon. I want to talk about the LGBTQ plus community, my community in Macclesfield and across the country, and about the very real country, and about the very real challenges that our community faces now.

But I want to begin with something personal. I'm proud to be the member of Parliament for Macclesfield, but I'm equally proud to be the first openly gay MP for Macclesfield. The first one is ever sent to this House, and it's not something that I say to draw attention to myself. It's something I say because I know what it means. It means something to the young person in Macclesfield who wonders whether someone like them can ever hold a position like this. It means something to the person who grew up in our area, as I do, and was never sure they belonged.

Representation matters, visibility matters, and I know myself and others today are humbled to carry that responsibility, including the Minister who started off the debate so, so ably. So when I speak about pride, I'm not speaking as an observer. I'm speaking as someone
14:06
Tim Roca Portrait Tim Roca MP (Macclesfield, Labour)
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who knows what it is to need it. And I should say that Macclesfield has given me every reason to be has given me every reason to be proud because the town and the rural communities I represent today rural communities I represent today are warmer, more open and more welcoming than the ones I knew growing up. And that transformation growing up. And that transformation has not happened by chance. It has happened because of the courage of happened because of the courage of Lgbt+ people who stayed visible, who refused to disappear, and because of local communities that chose to embrace them.

Nowhere is that spirit more alive than in Mac Pride, our town's own Pride Festival, which has grown from an idea in 2018 into a joyous, colourful celebration in the heart of our town centre. I want to thank take a moment to thank the extraordinary people who make it happen to Sophia Armitt and Olivia, Claire, Andrew, Angus, Carl Frost, Kerry McNeice, Jo Strafford, Paula Parkes, who's the parade coordinator, incredibly important, Rachel Wilson, Serena Lavin, Jenny Duggan and the amazing Stella Wait. Bennet, whose wife Sarah Bennett wake was the first openly gay mayor of Macclesfield and is a is a friend.

And of course, Charlie Higgins, boss Pippa Dean, Mickey Tiamo and Jinx Nocton. They are the reason that Macclesfield Pride happens. They give their time, their energy, their creativity and their passion year after year, entirely voluntarily, to create something genuinely wonderful for our community. And this Parliament should know what they do. And I'm proud to say their names in the chamber today. And I know other colleagues will have similar activists in their area that they are equally proud of. That spirit is also on display at our regular stride for pride, which is organised by the wonderful Mika and Dan of the Yasmeen Coffee Shop.

It's a community event that brings people together in solidarity. As much as celebration and solidarity is not incidental to the LGBT+ story, it is central to it. Our community has always known that you show up for each other, across differences, across generations, because sometimes there is nobody else. And the need for that solidarity has never been more urgent than it is right now. So before I turn to some of my concerns, let me say a little of the good I'm proud to have supported my friend, the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth, in her campaign to make LGBT+ hate crimes, aggravated offences that carry tougher sentences.

I'm proud the government is delivering financial compensation to LGBT+ veterans who suffered abuse, prejudice and dismissal under the awful historic armed forces ban, and I'm proud that the government will bring in a ban on conversion practices, and I look forward to voting for it eagerly. And it hangs on a timeline, a history of fantastic progress by the Labour Party. It's not exclusively Labour Party, but fantastic progress under Labour governments, including repealing section 28, introducing civil partnerships and those adoption rights that we heard of earlier.

But Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to talk about things that are causing very real concern and which colleagues have already raised very ably this afternoon about the concerns trans people have today. Trans constituents have written to me with real worry since the draft code of practice was laid before this House in May, and it's my duty to represent their concerns honestly and clearly, because they deserve that. And I know that the government will want to hear it. Firstly, let me start with where we stand internationally.

The Member for Guildford has pointed out we have dropped significantly in the Ilga Europe rainbow map, and to think that in 2015 we were first. What an incredible thing to have been proud of and then to fall 22 places in the space of a decade. And again, pointing out that on the issue of trans rights and legal gender recognition, we are now ranked 45th out of 49 European nations, and we have not gone backwards by accident. I've said before in this place that political will matters.

Legal frameworks matter. Words laid before this House matter. Transphobic hate crimes have increased since 2016, according to Home Office data. Some of that's because of better reporting, but some of that is undoubtedly due to the toxic atmosphere that is being directed towards such a small minority. It's real fear, real isolation and real violence felt by people who are simply trying to live as themselves. So I want to be clear about where I stand. I support women's rights to single sex spaces and services as set out in the Equality Act.

Those rights are real and they matter and I defend them. But I disagree with attempts to make them mutually exclusive with the dignity and safety of trans people. Both can and must be protected. I do give credit to the Secretary of State with regards to the guidance for the engagement she has had with MPs, I think, on all sides of the House, and I know she faced an incredible amount of pressure from all sorts of directions, but I have heard from constituents, trans constituents, parents with trans children who are genuinely frightened, but without clearer protections, they'll face more exclusion, more harassment, and we will all see more expensive and exhaustive legal battles.

It's already been referenced to the government's equality Impact assessment, warns of a disproportionate risk of violence and sexual assault towards trans women if they are directed to use male services. That's not a campaigning document. That is the government's own analysis and it deserves an answer. I'm also worried, as the Member for Luton has pointed out, about the confusion practically on the ground for businesses in my constituency cafes, restaurants, leisure centres. The guidance says simultaneously that members of the public should not challenge one another on the basis of sex, whilst also suggesting that where someone is asked to confirm their sex, it should be done sensitively.

Most reasonable business owners will be bewildered. And as I understand it and I'm not an expert, the suggestion from the briefing that some of us attended with EHRC yesterday is that it would not be possible for a club or an association to decide to be open only to women, including trans women. They would be challenged on that and the use of discomfort or distress of other service users as a legitimate aim of exclusion, combined with guidance suggesting that concern about person's sex may be evidenced by their appearance or behaviour, creates a subjective, appearance based threshold that, frankly, is an open invitation to harass anyone, trans or cis, who doesn't conform to stereotypes.

That's not clarity, and I worry it could lead to real harm. I want to say something about the early day motion that's been tabled by by colleagues calling for the guidance to be disapproved. I have genuine sympathy with their intention, and many of them are formidable campaigners for LGBT rights, and I respect them greatly. But I have to be honest, the Supreme Court judgement is clear and statutory guidance has to reflect the law as it stands. So in my view and my assessment, the genuine route forward for those of us who want clearer and stronger protections for trans people, and I count myself firmly in that group, is either new or amending legislation from Parliament or a future legal challenge that resets the framework.

And indeed, I think we have to accept that the Supreme Court judgement is increasingly rendering the Gender Recognition Act and the certificates close to a symbolic document with little practical force, and that cannot have been the intention of Parliament when it passed that legislation in 2004. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me finish where the debate should always return. On pride. I was attending a wedding of some very close gay friends in Argentina some years ago, and I came across the words of Carlos Georgia Gould, a great Argentine LGBT activist, and he said, Una sociedad para la garganta.

El ojo es una respuesta politica. In a society that educates us to be ashamed, pride is a political response. Pride began as a protest, an act of resistance by people who have been told by law and by society that they did not deserve dignity, that history lives in every parade, including the one that will set off through Macclesfield in a few weeks time, wind its way down to the marketplace it lives in. Strive for pride in every rainbow flag, in every shop on Chestergate, in Macclesfield.

It lives in the fact that I, as Macclesfield's MP, is standing here today, openly and proudly as myself, the first to do so because we're all standing on the shoulders of activists like those who organise these protests and have made that world possible. So in a society that's still, in too many ways educates people to be ashamed, pride is the political response, and it has never been clearer that the need for it is greater. So I'm proud to represent Macclesfield, proud of our extraordinary LGBT community, and I'm proud to say to every LGBT person watching or listening, we see you, we are with you, and we

**** Possible New Speaker ****

will keep fighting. Hey. Kirsty Blackman. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm glad to get the Deputy Speaker. I'm glad to get the chance to speak in today's debate, although I would echo the words of the member from Luton North that the member from Luton North that these things are always on a Thursday. And as the sole woman in the SNP, as the women in equalities the SNP, as the women in equalities spokesperson on the SNP, I find myself here on Thursdays way more often than my colleagues as a often than my colleagues as a result, and it would be very nice if we did move them around a little bit and have them on a Monday occasionally.

The the speech from the member from Luton North. I could not help but agree with every word that she said in that speech. I'm going to try really hard not to be party political throughout what I'm saying here. I'm also going to try really hard, and this is the bit that I'm going to find most difficult, not to look backwards and to try and look forwards and to try and look for what we need to do and where things are today and how we can improve them, rather than looking at what was done in the past.

But before I do that, I just want to recognise that pride is about a celebration. But pride is also about being angry. We can be angry about the injustices. We should be angry about the injustices. We can celebrate and party and dance or sing if we wish to dance or sing and have rainbows. But remember that we are always fighting against those injustices and trying to improve the world, trying to improve our small part of the world so that everyone can live their truth, so that everybody can
14:17
Kirsty Blackman Portrait Kirsty Blackman MP (Aberdeen North, Scottish National Party)
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be who they are and publicly be who they are. There's a number of they are. There's a number of things that I would like to see happen, changes that there need to be, and things that I would like be, and things that I would like the government to consider. I appreciate the question I asked the Minister and the conversion therapy Minister and the conversion therapy ban. I appreciate her commitment to it, and I believe that she is committed to it. I have no reason to doubt that she is committed to it.

It just rankles a little bit that when we were talking about the Equality Act judgement, the Ministers would stand up at the despatch box and say, we do support trans people because we're we're delivering a fully trans inclusive conversion therapy ban. For two years they've been doing that, and the trans community are feeling hurt enough as it is and alone enough as it is that that is ringing hollow. So anything the Minister can do to make sure this happens soon would be hugely appreciated.

So that at least we can protect the trans community in one way from conversion therapy. In terms of where we are with the EHRC guidance and how it's going to work and the impact that it's going to have on people's lives. If somebody wants, as an MP to stand at a despatch box or to stand in this chamber and tell people that they are lesbian, or they're gay or bisexual, or they're queer, if they choose to do that, they should be allowed to do that.

If they choose not to do that, they should be allowed not to do that. We should be able to. There should be a atmosphere in an ethos where people can do that, but also where they can choose not to. It should be their right about whether they do or they don't say that out loud. What we're asking in this guidance that's being put forward, what we're saying is that trans people no longer have that right. We are saying that every trans person who is accessing a service will not be allowed to remain quiet about their gender reassignment status.

They will not be allowed to do that. They will have to state what their biological sex is according to the Equality Act. They will have to do that if they're booked into the NHS, if they're taken into hospital, if they're taking into a mental health setting and sectioned, they will have to say to the doctor, they will have to say to the medical staff, I was assigned female at birth. They will have to make that clear. Their right to privacy is gone.

If you were put into a hospital and you had to say, I'm bisexual before you were assigned to a ward, or if you had, say, I'm gay before you were assigned to a ward, that would be completely unacceptable. But we think it's OK for trans people to have to say that if it's even if it's not medically relevant, we think it's OK for trans people to have to say that before they can go to swimming pool and into the changing rooms, we think that is OK.

We are telling people that they must they must explain what their biological sex is before they can access services. I do not think this is a proportionate guidance. I do not think it's fair to take away that private life, right? That everybody should have every one of us. We should be able to choose what we tell people about our gender identity, about our biological sex, about our sexuality. That should be up to us, about whether or not we say that.

And for example, if somebody is living in a religious community and they've only ever been known, the religious communities will never known them as a woman. But now they're going to have to say, I'm sorry, I can't use those toilets. I'm not allowed to use those toilets or else I don't know. I don't know what the sanctions are as a result of it, but it doesn't work. The guidance doesn't work. And I appreciate people talking about the clarity that there is in in the law.

What the prayer against the the Statutory Instrument is doing is praying against the guidance for however unhappy some of us are with the judgement that there was in the. What. What the actual prayer does is says that the guidance doesn't work, and the guidance in the Statutory Instrument has been put forward by. That should not be approved. It's not about overturning the Supreme Court judgement, no matter how many people would like to do that. It's not about changing the Equality Act.

It's specifically about that guidance being inappropriate. And that's why I've put my name on that guidance, because I don't think it works. I don't understand how it's going to work. And I believe that trans people who live throughout these islands should have the right to privacy and should not have to disclose that to anybody who asks. I'll talk about a few, probably less less serious, still important things that there are going forward, fertility issues in relation to gay and lesbian couples is something that has been raised with me on quite a number of occasions.

It would be very useful if the Minister and the team could look into IVF treatment, particularly could look into the rounds of IVF, for example, that are provided to people, and whether there's discrimination on the basis of of sexuality in that, and whether there's improvements that could be made to those systems to ensure that no matter what sexuality a couple or an individual is, that there's a level playing field there, that people are provided equal access to services as, as was said, a loving family is what children need.

It should not matter what gender the parents are, when they're going forward for fertility treatment. So anything the Minister can do, and that would be helpful in terms of the social media ban. And the shadow Minister spoke about the loneliness that there can be. Being the only gay in the village, being somebody whose voice is not heard, being somebody who can't live their truth in their family, for example, I think that any decisions that's taken around social media bans around removing young people from a community that they may have found that might be the only place where they are able to live their truth, where they're supported, where they're able to see that there's other people like them.

I think we really need to be careful about what happens here and ensure that impact assessments are done so that we are not committing young people who are already feeling like they're on the outside of things, feeling like they're not accepted. So we're not committing them to further levels of isolation. I'm not saying that definitely will happen. I'm saying that the government needs to assess and make sure it considers those things when it's taking any decisions around social media bans. I also want to touch on neurodiversity, intersectionality, some of the the issues that there can be faced by people who've got numerous different categories of minority that they fit into.

It bothers me a huge amount that there's a prevalence of thought from too many people that you're not really trans, you're just autistic. It's perfectly possible to be autistic and trans. It's perfectly possible to be autistic or trans. It's perfectly possible to be one, not the other or both. And the fact that too many people are told or looked at and suggested that you're just neurodiverse. Don't worry, you're not really trans. That's not listening to people and understanding their truth.

That's not accepting them for who they are. And you know, people, people grow and change. And some people will, particularly young people. And I, I can't remember who it was. It was maybe the, the Liberal Democrat spokesperson who talked about young people being able to be themselves and be accepted as themselves. Some of those young people will change as they go along their path, as they find the right fit for them. Some of them will be non-binary for a bit, and they realise that they're actually not non-binary at all.

And that's OK. And that should be OK. We all try things on when we're dressed as a goth for a while as a kid. Do not recommend it. I have not nearly pale enough to be to to dress as a goth, but I thought it was a good idea for a wee while. But you know, until I found out who I was and what fitted and what you know what. How I wanted to express myself. It was OK to try all sorts of different things until.

Until you work out who you are. And we should be accepting of young people as they do that and support them on the way through that journey as they find out and discover who they are. And just on that, I wanted to raise a concern about some of the school guidance that there sometimes has been. If a young person at school discloses to their teacher that they are a lesbian or disclose discloses that they're bisexual, there's not a sort of automatic feeling that we better go and tell their parents, because this is really dangerous and scary.

Some of the guidance that previously has come to schools says if a young person discloses that they are trans, their parents must be told. Now it's not safe always for their parents to be told this. It's a concerning thing. If teachers feel like they've got to treat trans children differently, that they've got to have a different conversation with parents about that, that if children can't feel that they can live their truth and speak to trusted adults about that without fear, that that's going to be spoken about somewhere else, that that's going to be passed on.

I don't understand how we can justify treating it differently and saying, this is somehow dangerous and scary, because the more that we treat it differently and suggest that it's dangerous and scary, the more hatred and lack of understanding that there will be for an already marginalised minority group. So I think, again, that I would like the government and all governments to think really carefully when they're making decisions, when they're putting out guidance about whether this stigmatises and minorities are already attacked, community, and already a community that's already finding it really difficult.

Any decision that's made. And I appreciate the government talking about DEFRA, for example, looking at the the impact of living growing up gay in rural communities or can't remember exactly the phrase, but something like that. You know, I appreciate that these things are being done much more through government than they perhaps were. It's not just women and equalities who are the only people that that I've ever think about the fact that there are gay people who exist. I'm glad that other departments are doing that, but I think we need to do more of that, particularly when it comes to trans people, particularly when it comes to destigmatizing and not minoritized individuals.

And then just the last thing in terms of puberty blockers and the last thing in terms of trans people around puberty blockers, I still think that more needs to be thought about, about the best way forward with this. I still think, again, we're minoritized and stigmatising a community, and we're saying to people that their reality and their truth is not the reality and the truth, and they're not allowed to believe that they're not allowed to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

be trans until they're 18, whereas you're allowed to be gay Before you're 18, but you're only allowed to be trans once only allowed to be trans once you're 18. And that's what it feels like. That's not what somebody said from the Dispatch Box, but that's what it feels like to so many members of the community. And I'd love for the government to consider love for the government to consider that. On a slightly happier note, just to to end with, there's a charity in Aberdeen called Four charity in Aberdeen called Four Pillars.

And I remember sitting with DJ, who's one of the team that runs the charity more than ten years ago, and DJ said, I've got this dream of having a cafe, a drop in place where people could go in and be themselves and feel comfortable. That cafe has now been open for a number of years. That was both of. Both of us sat down and laughed because we just thought, that's never going to happen. We're never going to have that in the city centre in Aberdeen.

And we do. We do have that really safe space that people can come to, that they can be themselves. They do all sorts of fun things like Dungeons and Dragons nights and craft nights and all sorts of cool things. It's a place where people can be themselves and they're accepted no matter what that looks like. Going forward, we need to ensure more of that acceptance. We need to ensure that gender nonconformity, for example, is more accepted, that we're not giving people a licence to challenge women with short hair.

Why shouldn't men wear skirts? Why shouldn't boys wear pink? You know, that is stuff we've been fighting against for so long. And the guidance that we've got now really, really risks dragging it backwards. OK. This is the very, very last thing I promise. Madam Deputy Speaker, we've heard about how lesbians are sometimes left out of this conversation. We've heard an awful lot about trans people today because of the risks that there are and the worries that there are for the trans community.

But just briefly, there is a B in LGBT two, and it doesn't matter who you're married to. It does not define your sexuality. Right. If you are a woman who is married to a man, that does not mean that you're heterosexual. We can listen to people and accept that their truth may not be as stereotypical as it looks from the outside. So remember when we're talking about pride, when we're talking about LGBT history, there's a B in the LGBT two.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Martin Rhodes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This time last year, in the debate This time last year, in the debate on Pride Month in this House, I told the story of one of my constituents who had served in the military and had been dismissed military and had been dismissed because of his sexuality. He was treated at a time with a casual treated at a time with a casual brutality. One positive thing about that debate last year was there was a large number of members wanting to speak and with a desire to to speak and with a desire to accommodate everyone.

However, understandably, a time limit on contributions was introduced. So unfortunately, I had to hurriedly reduce what I planned to be a 7 or 8 minute speech to three minutes to fit the time limit. The next morning, having thought about this, I resolved to contact the constituent to apologise because I felt that in the limited time available, I hadn't given justice to his story. However, when I opened my emails to find his contact details, I saw there was an email from him.

I opened it and the
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Martin Rhodes Portrait Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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email was thanking me for telling his story. And that indicates my his story. And that indicates my pride is so important. It's about stories being told, voices heard, lives recognised. It's about our community of communities being seen community of communities being seen and heard. It's about being recognised and celebrated for who recognised and celebrated for who we are, not just kindly tolerated. Every year during Pride Month, we seem to get into the debate about is pride a celebration or a protest? My contribution to those discussions has usually been along similar lines to those used by the Minister in her opening contribution, that it is both a celebration and a protest.

But maybe now I think it's perhaps something else. Perhaps it is indeed a place. Pride is a place where people can be their authentic selves without judgement, without fear, pride, above all else, should be a place free from shame. That shame. We are so often taught from an early age. The shame felt of being who we are. That feeling that we're not quite who we should be. At best, the casual assumption by others that we are something we are not.

At worst, name calling, mockery, rejection and hate. That shame reinforced by social norms and assumptions. Pride is that place where you don't have to justify who you are. Yes, pride can be a public place, a place of declaration. But pride can be a private place to a private place where people find calm in knowing who they are, shedding shame and being themselves. No one should be expected to have to repeatedly declare who they are on request. No one should be challenged on a regular basis to justify who they are.

We need to find ways of society that offers protection to all, but does not infringe on privacy of all. We need to find ways of ensuring all feels safe and all are treated with dignity. This may not be straightforward, but it should not be impossible. I welcome what this government has done to equalise the law so that hate crimes towards Lgbt+ people attracts the same severity of sentence as other forms of hate crime. And I commend the work of my hon.

Friend the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth in advocating for this change with others so effectively. I welcome the government's commitment to a fully inclusive ban on conversion practices. No one should be allowed to be systematically abused because of their gender identity or their sexuality. I hope that across this House, we can support legislation to bring this into force. There are times when I've celebrated progress. There are times when I have been frustrated by the pace of progress. There are times when I have worried by barriers to progress.

The truth now is that all of those feelings in this debate, I can see progress to be celebrated. I can feel some frustration that some things are taking longer than I'd hoped for, and I see opportunities for progress that I feel, that I feel are being missed. That is why this Pride Month, it is all the more important for me to be in that place we call pride, and to share that place with others. I recognise that pride does not mean that there will not be those who will mock and name, call, threaten and abuse.

There will those who seek to roll back progress and to restrict rights. There will be those who seek to divide us. Our place of pride is not some fabulous rainbow glittered ghetto. Our pride is everywhere. On every train and every bus, in every pub and every cafe, in every factory, in every office, in every supermarket, in every petrol station, in every food bank and every restaurant, in every sports ground, in every cinema. This month we mark Pride Month.

But every month, every week, every day when we live without shame, it is pride in place of fear. Peace in place of hate, love in place of shame. Pride.

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Sian Berry. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Brighton is well known as the Lgbt+ capital of the UK. It is a city with a famous reputation as a place where people can be who they are, love who they want to and feel safe. This is a great source of pride for me as a great source of pride for me as a representative, and also for my constituents who make it such a fantastic place to live or visit. fantastic place to live or visit.

In previous debates, I have spoken with joy about the joy of our
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Siân Berry Portrait Siân Berry MP (Brighton Pavilion, Green Party)
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amazing community, our huge pride and pride celebrations, and the LGBTQ plus history of our of our diverse city by the sea. But today, diverse city by the sea. But today, and with deep regret, and I know my constituents will want me to focus on this. Today, we mark this year's Pride Month at a time when many, if Pride Month at a time when many, if not all of our LGBT+ constituents feel unsafe. Our trans and non-binary constituents feel the sharpest edge of the current wave of demonisation and division.

But I am sure, like many hon. Members like me, many hon. Members will also have heard how this is impacting our gay, lesbian, bisexual and gender nonconforming constituents as well. This dangerous and harmful environment has been created online in our media, but also sadly in this place too. The new guidance, produced by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, is the most immediate example of how this is happening in legislation. The Code of Practice for services, public functions and associations is the culmination of years of well-funded campaigns to drive a minority group out of British public life.

It sets out nothing less than a system of segregation, where trans people are excluded from services and spaces that reflect their gender and in some cases, also excluded from services and spaces that reflect their sex assigned at birth. Where unisex facilities exist, usually also disabled access facilities, sometimes with restricted key entry, trans people can be forced into asking for and using these toilets, outing themselves in the process where they do not exist. Trans people will be left with nowhere to go.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the government's own equalities impact assessment on the code. As other hon. Members have pointed out, admits, there will be a significant impact on those with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment from the issue of forcing trans people to act themselves by using disabled toilets, to putting trans women at greater risk of sexual violence by making them use men's services. And I have met with service providers in Brighton who want to be inclusive, but who fear putting themselves at very real legal risk.

Now this guidance is coming forward. What an impossible position to be put in as a Brighton business to feel forced to implement oppressive and unworkable policies at the expense of trans and non-binary service users or customers who have never been a cause for concern. How is all this in the spirit of Pride Month? The bare facts are that research by translucent has found that there was just one complaint to English unitary authorities in 2025 concerning trans women's use of single sex spaces, such as toilets and changing rooms, and I firmly believe that it is Parliament's responsibility to fix this and honour the the joy, inclusion and freedom that pride is really about.

The code of practice is both cruel and confusing and. I have written to the Prime Minister and the Minister for Women and Equalities making these points today. I also urge colleagues to sign EDM 240 proposed by the hon. Member for Nottingham East, which I also sponsor, which is cross-party, and calls on Parliament to disapprove the code of practice as it stands, and I hope we will see much more cross-party work on this issue, as there has often been in the past when progress has been made by previous governments and from my local point of view.

It is clear my city, my constituency, want and need a renewed focus on rights and for this guidance to be challenged. I was so pleased and proud to read the recent official statement from the leader of Brighton and Hove City Council, who is not from my party, but we are united on this and for those we represent, she said. The Ehrc guidance creates a deeply confusing picture, which sees trans people being told in the same breath that they may not be able to use facilities aligned with either their sex at birth or their gender.

This creates uncertainty and insecurity for affected individuals and is deeply unfair. She says trans and non-binary residents of our city have told us that the chilling effect is already being felt, with some trans people avoiding accessing services, including hospitals and healthcare, to avoid challenge and discrimination. She also said Parliament must urgently act and legislate to clarify that trans people have the right to participate in everyday life in an inclusive way. The leader of the council and I agree that Parliament should reject this document, and we also agree that we must legislate instead to create a legal framework with clear and equal rights for all, which protects trans people's rightful place in society.

And in my own words, I think we must also legislate to clear up what obvious mis understandings of the current law and its intentions at the Supreme Court level. When you look at the Equality Act and the Gender Recognition Act together. As the hon. Member for Luton North pointed out so powerfully, other countries have written laws that work for everyone's rights. So can we, trans people of all ages and backgrounds, exist in communities across the country and always have, and they have every right to thrive, just as their cisgender friends, family members and colleagues to do too.

I recognise the minister's pride in previous achievements and her upcoming plans. But when Labour brought in the Gender Recognition Act over two decades ago, it promised trans people it would help them live their daily lives in peace, privacy and dignity. Now this current government is going to break that promise. If we do not act together to make laws that work. This Pride Month, if the current environment for Lgbtq+ people teaches us one thing, it is that progress is precious and rights for any of us can, if not defended, fully, be rolled back.

It is our

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job in this place to prevent this. Madam Speaker. And I'm grateful to follow the

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And I'm grateful to follow the hon. Member for Brighton Pavilion, and I really wanted to welcome the speeches to. Of the Minister and speeches to. Of the Minister and Shadow Minister for their speeches, because they were warm and deeply personal and also wanted to personal and also wanted to recognise the really powerful speech of the chair of the Select Committee, the Member for Luton Committee, the Member for Luton North, and it's a privilege to speak in this debate to mark and celebrate Pride Month, the first time I've had an opportunity to do so since I was elected, and it's a particular privilege to do so, not just as Basingstoke's first ever Labour MP, but also as its first openly bisexual and Lgbt+ member of Parliament.

I'm grateful to the Member for Aberdeen North for focusing on the B in LGBT, and as other members have said, it's feels
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Luke Murphy Portrait Luke Murphy MP (Basingstoke, Labour)
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like a world away to be able to contribute in this debate from the scared, sometimes ashamed boy little boy that I was growing up. And it does show the huge progress And it does show the huge progress that we've been able to make as as a society. And as such, I'm looking a society. And as such, I'm looking forward to taking part once again in the Basingstoke Pride Parade in August of this year. It's always incredibly wonderful to see everyone taking part in that parade joyful, proud, and defiant too, and also to have people from across the community in Basingstoke lining the streets in celebration and solidarity.

And I want to pay tribute to all of the organisers and volunteers who make it possible. And it is important to recognise just how far we've come as the Minister set out and to celebrate this and previous Labour government's record in advancing LGBT+ rights, the last Labour government did more for Lgbt+ equality than any government in history. We removed the shameful section 28, passed the legislation that allowed trans people to legally change their gender. The Equality Act, civil partnerships, making progress on adoption and much more.

And it is a legacy that made our country a far more open and tolerant place to live. But as many hon. Members have said, we all know that the battle is not won. In some respects, it is never won, especially as hateful and divisive rhetoric creeps back into our public discourse. And too many, far too many follow that up with real world actions of hatred, hate crime and abusive conversion practices still happening. And much of the rhetoric directed at Lgbt+ people today, in particular trans people echoing the same hatred that was commonplace during the era of section 28.

And we've seen a shocking rise in homophobic and transphobic hate crimes over the past few years. That's why, as many other colleagues have mentioned, I was proud, alongside colleagues colleagues, to support the amendment to the Crime and Policing Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire and Bedworth to make those hate crimes aggravated offences, treated with the seriousness that they have always deserved. And it's also why this Labour government must remain committed, not just the defending the progress made by previous Labour governments and other governments too, but to be build on that, on our proud legacy of LGBT, LGBT equality and the government is making progress in equalising the law, as I've already said, so that Lgbt+ hate crimes attract the same severity of sentence as those motivated by race or religion.

In providing nearly half £1 million in specialist funding for domestic abuse services. In establishing 2021 fund, a £21 million fund to support Lgbt+ rights globally and in improving the experience of our communities, personnel and veterans in the Armed Forces and delivering financial recognition to LGBT veterans in working to tackle HIV transmissions and improve access to healthcare and in delivering, hopefully as soon as possible, a full trans inclusive ban on conversion practices. Nevertheless, I know because of their emails and the conversations I have had locally, that many Lgbt+ people in Basingstoke remain incredibly worried about what the future holds for our community in this country.

It includes many trans people, their friends and families, and people in the wider community who, as many colleagues have said, have profound concerns about the recent draft guidance on the Equality Act, its implementation and practical effects, which have been ably highlighted by the Member for Luton North and Macclesfield. And I want to reassure my constituents that I will be presenting those concerns to government and seeking reassurance alongside other colleagues in this House, but I also want to reassure them that, as their MP, I will continue to stand with them, not just during Pride Month, but every single day of the year, standing strong against those that would turn the clock back.

Yes, celebrating progress by this government, but also pushing it to go further because, as the Minister said, progress and equality are not permanent. Both must be safeguarded, nurtured and renewed. I want all of our successors to be able to stand here in Parliament in future debates on Pride Month, celebrating the progress made under this and future government for the Lgbt+

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community, I would give a. I thank the hon. Member for giving way and he's making a very giving way and he's making a very powerful speech, not just about the progress, but about the fact that we must all continue to defend our rights, and our rights are never guaranteed, as other rights often guaranteed, as other rights often are. As we celebrate Pride Month, he's he's mentioned briefly, but I just wanted to talk about other nations pulling back from sporting globally LGBT rights.

And not just that, but some countries, including sadly, Ghana at the moment bringing in very severe anti LGBT legislation. I want to join my hon. Friend in welcoming the £21 million that's been dedicated by the government to the work to defend and promote LGBT rights across the world, because it is incredibly important for a whole range of issues, including health and and community. Would you join me in commending the work of the Kaleidoscope Trust and the Elton John Aids Foundation, in particular for the work that they do in partnership with this country and European countries as well, in making sure that we can do play our part, not just in defending our rights here, but in promoting and defending LGBT rights around the world.



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I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, and I would pay tribute to those organisations, but tribute to those organisations, but also to him as my hon. Friend for Exeter, for the work that I know that he did with many colleagues in helping the government secure that money. And his point about Ghana and other countries around the and other countries around the world rolling back on LGBT rights, as I said, is a recognition that as I said, is a recognition that the battle is never won.

And the action that we take here in this country isn't just about protecting the community we have here at home, but also sends a signal about advances that need to be made abroad as well, because nobody, Madam Deputy Speaker, should be made to feel scared, ashamed or excluded because of who they are or who they love. And it is all of our duty in this House and outside of it, to ensure that that is the case. Standing as part of or with the Lgbt+ community with pride, ensuring that, as the Member for

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Luton North said earlier, that love always wins. Yeah.

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Yeah. David Burton-Sampson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and. Might I just start by saying

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Might I just start by saying what an honour it is to speak in this debate today and other diversity, equality and inclusion diversity, equality and inclusion debate similar. I just love the fact that across this House, so many members come together to support the right cause together. And it's quite obvious, Madam Deputy Speaker, that there's one party that's never here for these debates, the party that says they
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David Burton-Sampson Portrait David Burton-Sampson MP (Southend West and Leigh, Labour)
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want to be in government, the reform UK party, and they can't be bothered to turn up to express bothered to turn up to express their opinions on these vitally important debates. And I think important debates. And I think that's absolutely shocking. If I can just start, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's a little bittersweet Speaker, it's a little bittersweet that I'm here today, and I'll explain what I mean, if you'll allow me. I wasn't meant to be here allow me. I wasn't meant to be here today alongside a number of my colleagues.

I was meant to be at the Royal Navy Air Base in in Yeovilton. And we all know that sadly, yesterday the Merlin helicopter crashed and sadly, three members of the Royal Navy were killed. And for us who have met these amazing people, including my my hon. Friend in front of me here over recent months, it's devastating seeing their dedication, their skill, their commitment, the teamwork, the camaraderie between them. We know that they will be feeling absolutely awful today and broken.

And on behalf of the members in this House and those in the other place who should have been there today, we send our thoughts to the family, the friends and the colleagues of all those who lost their lives in the line of duty for this country. So getting on to the debate today and the very important time that we currently stand in for the LGBTQ plus community, what comes after pride? That was a flyer that was posted through my door when I was a councillor in Basildon.

What comes after pride with the rainbow flag on the front of it? Interesting. What's this? And on the back it was telling me that I should repent, I should repent, I shouldn't be who I was, I should repent, I should convert myself back to being somebody who I wasn't. Now, these flyers didn't just come to my house. These flyers went out right across Basildon, where I was a councillor, and I got angry, as I'm sure many in this House would, receiving something like that.

That's a direct attack on them and their community, especially after the years of discrimination that many of us who are maybe slightly older have gone through during our. Well, I was born in the 70s, so, you know, know many of us might have gone through 90s in this place, but I stopped getting angry. I thought, let's turn this into something positive. And Madam Deputy Speaker, I brought together a group of Pride.

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Yeah. In two weeks we arranged a march through the centre of Basildon town through the centre of Basildon town centre to the one local LGBTQ plus night spot, where we had an night spot, where we had an afternoon of celebration, and we saw the support that was for us in that community. Absolutely. There's

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that community. Absolutely. There's a lot more support than there is hatred. Yeah. And on the back of that,

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And on the back of that, Basildon Pride was born and I helped build that organisation to what I'm proud to say is a brilliant organisation that operates throughout the year, supporting the LGBTQ plus community in Basildon today. Now, whilst I might have moved on to Southend, I've remained Chair of Trustees of Basildon Pride because it's it's my baby. I want to make sure that that continues to thrive and that the amazing volunteers that we have there continue to be supported.

And why? Because as we've heard today, pride is more important than ever. We've all heard about the Ilga Europe's rainbow map showing us consistently sliding down from that top place in 2015 down to 22nd place this year. And I don't know how others across this place feels, but for me, that's devastating because I've worked hard on the rights for LGBTQ plus people, but I've only had a small contribution. There are many people across this country over many years who have fought discrimination we have faced at a community, as a community, to get us into that great place we were in when we could have civil partnerships, get married, you know, when we could adopt.

These were rights that we didn't have when hate against us was actually seen as a hate crime, we earned those rights. And I stand on the shoulders of giants who have fought for those rights before I came along. So it hurts me to see where we are today. And what also hurts me is the rhetoric we see across this country today, rhetoric that's driving wedges in our communities, trying to drive wedges into the LGBTQ plus community.

And that's just not acceptable. And many of them are the party that sits on the back over there, reform UK, and I'm going to call them out today, Madam Deputy Speaker, because some of their behaviour in our community is simply unacceptable. Many buildings will fly the Pride Progress flag for Pride Month. Last year, reform UK started threatening lawsuits against councils who were flying the progress flag. Disgraceful because they were saying that under legislation you're not allowed to fly that flag, you're only allowed to fly the rainbow flag.

The flag with the six colours on, as opposed to the triangle that represents the whole LGBTQ plus community. Many have accepted that that is the flag. Now that we fly. That flag means so much to so many when they see it in their community. To see just for that one month or that one week or that one day of their pride that we are behind them, that we support them. Well, you thought reform UK were threatening lawsuits and councils were having to take it down because of a minor difference in the guidance, saying that you can only fly the rainbow flag.

We are challenging that. A group of us are challenging that and we are working with Mhclg and the Minister within that department to try and get this changed. But for goodness sake, what does it matter? What does it matter to reform UK? This is a flag flying that doesn't harm them, but shows people in our society that they are included. They are part of that society. This rhetoric has to stop and we've seen them going further in councils they control.

It's been mentioned today taking the rainbow flag down, not allowing it to be flown during Pride Month or any time even taking the Ukraine flag down. One thing the majority of us in this House are behind is supporting those in Ukraine. And we show that symbolically by flying that flag

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across many of our buildings. Not with. I will give way. I'm really grateful for him

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I'm really grateful for him giving way as he knows. Local reform members in Bracknell tried very much to block Bracknell Forest Council flying the progress flag in recent years, and he knows that I recent years, and he knows that I share his view that we need a very common sense fix to this because, common sense fix to this because, frankly, it is a waste of council time to be debating, you know, putting this through planning when actually what we all want is just common sense approach that allows our communities to show that they are inclusive of everyone within those communities.

This is a common

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sense change that we could make. And I thank I thank my hon. Friend for that comment, and I Friend for that comment, and I thank him for his support working alongside this matter with me to

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alongside this matter with me to get this resolved. Would the hon. Member. Give way? I will give way. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and thank you to the Member for giving way. Is there a member aware that a. Apparently, as I read in that a. Apparently, as I read in the media, the Leader of the Opposition has also instructed all of her Cabinet, all of her councils in the country do not fly the progress flag and to only fly the original flag from the 1970s. Does he agree with me that it's a real shame to see the official opposition joining in some of the rhetoric, and the divisive politics and rhetoric that reform have been engaging with David Burton-Sampson?

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Well, I think. That is a real shame. And I would say to the Leader of the Opposition and anybody else who's Opposition and anybody else who's concerned about this is don't be concerned. Fly the flag. Be proud concerned. Fly the flag. Be proud of everybody in your community. So yes, I, I agree, it is a real shame. And, and they need to consider And, and they need to consider whether they are making the right thing by ordering councils not to fly that flag.

We've even seen in fly that flag. We've even seen in Essex reform UK now sending out an order. They. Since taking over Essex County Council to their libraries not to allow LGBTQ plus and Pride events to take place in their libraries. So what next? Are they going to order books that have LGBTQ plus themes to be removed from those libraries? Are we going to go back to section 28? I hope not, because I remember section 28, because that's when I was at school, and what a horrendous time it was for me as a young gay man, not to be able to see those those that visible representation of somebody who I deep down inside knew I was.

And therefore, for many years I thought I was wrong. I thought how I felt, the fact that I fancied men, boys. At that time I was only young, and then men was wrong, and I really struggled with that. The guilt I felt, and I know many young LGBT people during the 80s and 90s felt similar. The guilt that we felt because we couldn't see that representation and we were being told that we were wrong. And it took many, many years to overcome that.

I'll never forget going to my first nightclub, and many of the nightclubs outside of London were all even boarded up buildings, so that you couldn't see what was happening inside. Men dancing with men or women dancing with women. Disgusting. That's how it was. Or they were down in basements. So again, they were hidden away. And for me, it just felt like we were being hidden away. And we fought against that. And now we're out there and proud, and I am not willing to go backwards.

We fought hard for this. I'm not willing to go backwards. Look, we're at Madam Deputy Speaker. We're at a turning point, especially with our trans community feeling unsafe, unwanted, like they don't belong. And they tell me this, we're talking about 0.5% of our population here. But the way the rhetoric is going at the moment, you would think they were making up half of our population, 0.5% of our population. And whatever your views on the code of practice, on the back of the Supreme Court ruling, we have a trans community who are scared.

We have human beings who live in this country who are currently scared, and we can't allow that to continue. We, as a Labour government, last time we were in government and we are aiming to do the same. This time we created a tolerant country and much of that work that we did, we can't drive back on that. We can't go backwards. I know this government is committed to doing the right thing for the LGBTQ plus community, and the Minister outlined some of that to us earlier.

So I'm pleased to see the draft Conversion Practices bill coming forward soon, and I do believe the Minister will bring it forward soon, and I look forward to seeing that happening. Improvements to trans healthcare. And we've heard about the work of my hon. Friend, the amazing hon. Friend from North Warwickshire and who, alongside many of us, brought forward to tackle hate crime and bring it forward as an aggravated offence alongside other hate crimes. So there's work going on.

But somebody reminded me. Madam Deputy Speaker, a few days ago of the Martin Niemöller poem, and it really struck a chord with me. And I just want to share it here today. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. I'm glad we've got people to speak for us, like my wonderful ally, our wonderful ally, my hon. Friend for Luton North and many others across this place. So going back to that flyer, what does come after fried? I think we're a long way from answering that question at the moment, much further away than I would have liked us to have been at this point in time.

But for now, I, I commit publicly to my community. I am here for you. I will keep fighting for you, and I will keep speaking out for you. We must stand together against those who are trying to divide us and trying to sow division. We all belong in this great country, in our communities, no matter who we love or how we identify. Like so many of us, I've been made to feel like I don't belong in my lifetime.

Unable to walk along the street, holding my partner's, my husband's hand, being victims of homophobic hate crime at our house. I'm not going to go back to those times. I'm not willing to go back to those times. And I know many across this House will stand with me on that. As a former pride organiser and chair of trustees today, I want to thank all the amazing pride organisers across the country who don't do so much hard work for the communities and often voluntarily in their own time.

And I especially want to thank my local pride, Southend Pride and also the pride. I founded, Basildon Pride.

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give up. And thank you. Here. Peter Swallow Madam Deputy

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Peter Swallow Madam Deputy Speaker And can I say what a privilege it is to follow that incredible contribution from my incredible contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West and Lee. I think there are West and Lee. I think there are many of us in this place who recognise a lot of the experiences recognise a lot of the experiences he talked about, many of us who know what it is to be holding hands with the person that we love, and then see someone turn the corner as we walk down the street and immediately let go of our loved ones hand, because we don't know if it's safe to continue holding the person we love close.

Yeah. I also wanted to pay a. Particular thanks to the powerful contribution of the chair of the Women's Inequality Committee, who I know is doing incredible work on supporting Lgbt+ rights and shared powerful contribution from her constituent, which I think was very, very important to put on the record. And also the my hon. Friend from Macclesfield, not only for his powerful words, but also for giving a real job to Hansard with his foreign language skills. There are those who say we don't need pride anymore, that we've achieved
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Peter Swallow Portrait Peter Swallow MP (Bracknell, Labour)
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equality, that discrimination and hate based on sexuality and gender is no longer tolerated in this country. But then, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are also those who Speaker, there are also those who say that pride isn't suitable for children with impressionable minds, children with impressionable minds, that gay men are poofs who mince about, and that if LGBT people want about, and that if LGBT people want acceptance, they need to stop making a big song and dance about it. Homophobic comments like this will be sadly familiar to many here in this chamber and across the country.

Such intolerant views are, to my mind, profoundly un-british. They are also the words of Reform's candidate in the Makerfield byelection. Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not think there could be a clearer demonstration of why we still need pride, why we still need today's debate. Than that, I'm proud to say today that my constituency of Bracknell hosts its own pride, which will celebrate its fourth year this July. Growing up as a young gay boy in Berkshire, as my hon.

Friend the Minister grew up in Berkshire herself. I never thought I would see a time when not only reading had a pride, but also smaller towns across our county

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Woking and Windsor, Newbury and other towns all now celebrating pride every year. Yeah.

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Yeah. And I think this is important because pride should be celebrated in every community so that every in every community so that every person can feel that they are loved from and whoever they are. I remember growing up gay how sometimes I felt like I would never sometimes I felt like I would never belong, and that could be an incredibly isolating feeling. Even in the 2000. It was very scary of me to come out knowing not everyone would accept me for who I was.

So can I take this opportunity to thank everyone who has worked so hard to bring Bracknell Forest Pride to where it is today, and I look forward to celebrating with them later this summer. I want every young Lgbtq+ person growing up in Bracknell Forest not to have to feel the fear I experienced growing up. My hon. Friend, in her opening speech, rightly recognised that the progress made on Lgbt+ rights has been hard won, and that the battle for a society where Lgbt+ people can truly live without fear of hate and discrimination is far from over.

So this government has acted to equalise hate crime law through the Crime and Policing Act, so that victims of homophobic hate crimes can. No perpetrators will be fully held to account. We're bringing Lgbt+ veterans the justice they deserve after the suffering they have endured, and we're issuing nearly half £1 million worth of specialist funding for Lgbt+ domestic violence services, as well as committing £21 million over the next three years to support the LGBT community internationally. In this time of increasing hostility towards our community nationally and globally, we must now go one step further by delivering on our manifesto commitment to a fully trans inclusive ban on conversion therapy, as we have committed to doing.

In The King's Speech, Madam Deputy Speaker, these measures are very welcome and important, but I cannot in good conscience say that the path of progress in this country is a straightforward one. Even now, even with this government. And I do want to briefly touch on the draft EHRC code of practice laid before Parliament, which many members across the House have raised today. I recognise and respect the judgement of the Supreme Court. A narrow and specific judgement about a specific aspect of the Equality Act, but I do not think that in order to make the world safer for women, we must make it less safe for trans people.

And I have real concerns that where the new Ehrc guidance was supposed to bring clarity, it has instead only brought more anxiety, fear and confusion. The government can and must find a way forward which balances the rights of women and trans people. If we fail to do this, we risk the safety of both groups and of entrenching ourselves in a divisive culture war, which we can

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and must move beyond. I'd be delighted to give away. I thank my hon. Friend for

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I thank my hon. Friend for giving way on that point. I sit alongside him on the Joint Committee for Human Rights and the work that he does on that, work that he does on that, including on the code of practice and the issues that he's outlining is has been fantastic and phenomenal. I wonder if you would phenomenal. I wonder if you would agree with me that what is worrying and is of a concern is that whenever anyone in this House or whenever anyone in this House or outside of this place stands up and tries to defend trans people, the way in which we're now seeing transphobia slip into homophobia and other languages of hate, and those same tropes being utilised against people in a hope to shut them up.

Does he share with me the concerns about that chilling effect on our democracy and the rights of LGBT people in the UK?

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Peter Swallow I think he makes a profoundly important point. We have profoundly important point. We have all seen the conversation around. You know, preserving the rights of You know, preserving the rights of everyone in our society, women and everyone in our society, women and trans people increasingly made into a political football and into a political football and into something deeply personal. A lot of this is, is being driven by social media. And I know that every member who chose to speak in today's debate will have weighed up whether the comments that they are making today are going to be clipped and pushed out on social media, and whether they will receive abuse because of what they have chosen to say in this place.

I think that is profoundly wrong. And while I recognise that there are, you know, feelings on on this issue from both sides that often go well past the pale, in my view, I think that it is inherent on all of us in this place, whatever our views on this delicate and important issue, to treat the debate with the respect and dignity that those affected by it deserve. And I think that that is fundamentally where we need to get to on this important issue.

He also kindly highlights my role on on the Human Rights Committee, sitting alongside the the hon. Member and I. And that prompts me just to remember that the Gender Recognition Act, which has been rightly championed in today's debate, was only passed or was passed in large part because of a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights that confirmed trans people have the right not to be outed under article 8ECH. A lot of us have spoken today about how important it is that we feel able to be our authentic selves to come out, and I think that it is incumbent on all of us to create a society where LGBT LGBT+ people feel that they are able to live their authentic lives and be honest about who they are.

I also think it is a profound right of all of us to keep very private and personal matters private, if that is what we so choose. And frankly, one of my concerns and concern raised by many members today is that the draft code of practice undermines that human right, the right to privacy, which is set out in law. I think this is a really challenging debate to be part of. It has at times been an overwhelming debate to be part of, because I am so proud of my party's record on Lgbt+ rights, and also because if I'm being honest with myself, I think we are at risk of that reputation.

We are at risk of losing our reputation as the party of equality and indeed our very soul as the Labour Party. If we are not willing to stand up for the rights of everyone, including the Lgbt+ community. I want to finish on a slightly happier note by wishing everyone in Bracknell Forest and beyond a very happy Pride Month. This is a time to remember and to celebrate hard won rights and freedoms, and to look forward with a renewed sense of community and of hope for the future for all members of our great country, for all members of of diverse communities that call it home.

And today, in particular, for all members of the Lgbt+ community.

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Yay! Chris Vince! Yay!

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Yay! Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I start by thanking my hon. Friend from Reading West and hon. Friend from Reading West and Mid Berkshire and indeed my. I'll call him that today. My hon. Friend from Daventry for their starting of from Daventry for their starting of this debate, and particularly welcome their comments about the welcome their comments about the importance of healthcare when it comes to supporting our LGBTQ community. Having spoken to LGBTQ plus members, people in, in in Harlow during my time representing them, I know there is still a real stigma when it comes to healthcare, and I think it's really important that we continue to talk about that.

I also want to thank my hon. Friend from Luton North, her incredibly powerful contribution. I did quite well. I lasted about ten minutes into her speech before before the tears came. But she has a way of talking about, well, pretty much every issue she talks about, actually, but particularly LGBTQ plus rights in a way that is powerful. But just really real to us. And I think her her the bit that got me was when she started talking about her constituent and those experiences.

I mean, I do want to have an opportunity because
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Chris Vince Portrait Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )
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I don't want to get told off for not mentioning Harlow to pay tribute to everybody in Harlow tribute to everybody in Harlow that's worked so incredibly hard to make Harlow pride a success. I actually feel very sorry for racist and homophobic people, because they miss out on the opportunity to go some absolutely incredible events, and I get to go to pride events. I get to go to religious and cultural events, and I have a bloody good events, and I have a bloody good time.

And I'm very proud of that, but very good time.

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Sorry. And I want to start, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I stand here Deputy Speaker, as I stand here today to say, I am a proud ally of the LGBTQ plus community. Yes, the LGBTQ plus community. Yes, because I truly believe no one should ever face persecution or abuse just for being who they are, or indeed being love with, in love with who they are in love with. And with who they are in love with. And I really think that's hugely important.

I would also reflect, though, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I'm an Lgbtq+ ally who doesn't always get it right. And I think we should be honest with ourselves on that. And going last in a speech like I was always quite daunting to go last in speeches, as happens quite often for me. Except when I second the King's speech. Just saying. But it was particularly daunting today because I have to say, every single contribution was absolutely incredible. And every single member from across the House who spoke in this debate should be incredibly proud of themselves.

My hon. Friend who's been a friend of mine for many years, the Member for Southend West, West and Leigh, describing himself as a small part of his small part for for this debate. No, you do a massive part. So he does a massive part to support LGBTQ plus the community in his constituency. But actually the wider, the wider the wider country as well. So I think he should be particularly incredibly proud. Madam Deputy Speaker, I felt quite positive in this space.

The last Labour government introduced civil partnerships and adoption, adoption rights and got rid of the divisive section 28. I know from talking to previous teaching colleagues who are gay, that when I talked to them about section 28, there's still a shudder when they think about it and they talk about that time both with anxiety and also a huge degree of of fear. And as my hon. Friend from Southend West and Leigh touched upon, there are a generation of young people who are terrified to admit who they are, and that must be absolutely awful and was absolutely awful.

And indeed, although I may criticise the last Tory government for. For much, and I do criticise them for a lot, and I'm always wary about. Nice about the Tories, because last time I did that the opposition tried to recruit me, which was a bit weird, and I do pay tribute to the last conservative government for the equal equal marriage legislation that they brought through, and I I'm glad that the shadow Minister is in her place, because last year when we had the pride debate, I had the opportunity to mention my late uncle Stephen, and she among she as well as the Member for Hertsmere, who's not here, he hears me when I mentioned my uncle, and I'm generally very grateful for that.

So I proudly. Madam Deputy Speaker, say again the name Stephen Vince in this place. He is somebody who was let down by our society because he was gay, but he was one of the most warmest, kindest people I have had the opportunity to to know. And I'm very proud to to be able to talk about him and talk about the fact

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that he was my uncle and may he. Yeah. Thank you. And may he never be forgotten.

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forgotten. Yeah. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also stand here with some fears. also stand here with some fears. And as my hon. Friend from Southend mentions that the hon. Member for Southend East and the South and Southend East and the South and West and Lee mentioned. I'm very concerned about the decision by the reform led Essex County Council to reform led Essex County Council to ban pride advertising in libraries, including those in Harlow and my hon. Friend from Bracknell spoke about his concerns about.

And as my hon. My hon. Friend from South West and Lee about them sort of deciding what you know, potentially not necessarily just reform as well, but deciding which books people should be able to read. And I, I do say this a little bit of jest, but I think you'll understand why I say this. My son doesn't want to be a hungry caterpillar. The idea that, you know, reading, reading books that have role models, that LGBTQ+ is only going to make you become gay.

It's just nonsense, isn't it? Let's be really honest about that. And, and actually, the important power that those books have on young people that are LGBTQ+ and are looking for sort of direction and guidance is really important, but it's also important for people like me to read about the LGBTQ plus community in books. And for that to be commonplace. You know,

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it wasn't long ago. I'm a bit of a Star Trek fan. Madam Deputy Speaker. remember. Thank you, sir.

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Thank you, sir. Deep Space Nine, Jadzia Dax. She do you remember that episode where she where she kissed another woman? she where she kissed another woman? It was like outrage. And that's just unbelievable to me. And I think we do need to, to, to really, you know, be proud of that. Actually, we live in a society Actually, we live in a society where actually those members of the LGBT community can and should be able to walk down the street holding hands and not feel the way that my my hon.

Friend from from. Yes.

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And Harlow giving way on that point. And I'm sure he looks fantastic when he turns up to pride events in his glamorous gladrags events in his glamorous gladrags I'm sure he wears one of the interesting. One of the interesting points that happened to me a few points that happened to me a few weeks back is I went for dinner at my mum's and my little niece was there with my middle sister and my middle sister, and I have a very interesting relationship.

We don't get along that much, but my, my little niece, who was turned to me little niece, who was turned to me and I had a friend, a Liberal Democrat member with me who was off out knocking on doors ahead of the local elections. And my little niece, who's, you know, primary school just went, oh, is that your friend or partner? And I thought that was an incredibly poignant moment for me, thinking, gosh, I might not necessarily see eye to eye with my sister, but she's done a good job raising a kid.

And does he agree with me that a future where that's one of those questions, one of those, one of those, a future where kids sort of actually just have that open mind, are inquisitive and not hateful is one

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which would do the world a better place. Yeah. For his intervention. I don't thank him for overtaking me in the thank him for overtaking me in the marathon on my my mile five actually. So a long way ahead of the Member for and, and I, I the the Member for and, and I, I the slight insight into his family Christmases is absolutely fascinating, but he makes a really fascinating, but he makes a really valid point, as he often does in this place.

And I may have given an this place. And I may have given an opportunity to mention I used to be a teacher, which I haven't done yet, I thank I thank him for that. I didn't teach him. But, you know, I, I think about when I first started teaching in 2005, up until when I finished teaching in 2020. And I did see that that shift, you know, when I first started teaching, if you were a young person that was openly gay, you would have been subject to a lot to ridicule.

Now, I'm not saying that we're in a perfect world where that doesn't happen, but it certainly I saw more young people that were happy at school to be open about their sexuality. And I think that's something we should really, really celebrate. But there is challenges as well. And I don't want to end on a negative, but I've just been starting to read Esther Ghey book about the horrendous murder of her daughter, and I think it shows the true impact, the horrendous impact of, of, of transphobia.

And I think we need to be really mindful of

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that. But equally I think there is hope. I will, yes.

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hope. I will, yes. I very much thank my hon. Friend for giving way as a fellow Essex MP. I was shocked, like he was, to see I was shocked, like he was, to see the decision taken by Essex County Council around displaying pride and Council around displaying pride and LGBTQ plus material in libraries. However, today I learned that it appears that my own. Unfortunately. appears that my own. Unfortunately. Council. Thurrock Council, which is now run by reform UK, seems to have directed the removal of pride advertisements and LGBTQ plus awareness material from the Tameside complex in Greys.

Ironically, this complex will be hosting Pride in June, which the pride organisation in Thurrock are fully paying for. Does he agree with me that this is a real backward step in what should be a safe space for the LGBTQ plus

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community in Thurrock? Nay. My honourable bestie for her

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My honourable bestie for her contribution and absolutely agree with everything that she just said. And I want to send my solidarity to members of Thurrock pride and thank them for all they do as well. them for all they do as well. Because, as I mentioned, my hon. Friend mentioned earlier, all these pride groups across the country are pride groups across the country are a hugely important. And the difference they make to members of her constituency who, you know, may be LGBTQ plus and perhaps are wary of some of the comments because of some of the things we've talked about today.

They do a huge amount to support those people with their mental wellbeing and make them feel part of the community. So I really want to thank them for that. But I would say to as well, there is hope and the hope is all around us because there is been representation in this debate from five political parties. I think I've counted that up. Right? Yes. One obviously notable absence, but five political parties. And I think, you know, we should have pride that whatever differences we may have, we all agree that it's hugely important that we support our LGBTQ plus colleagues.

So I feel that there is absolutely some hope. And look. Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am saddened by what my hon. Friend from Thurrock and also the hon. Friend from South and Western Lee mentioned about some of the decisions being made by councils who have recently changed political affiliation, because it looks as though we're going to have to fight the battles of the past with regards LGBTQ plus rights. But I say to everybody who's spoken in this debate, if we have to fight those fights again, we will fight

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those fights again, and I will stand there and fight with you. Hey. Which brings us to the front

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Which brings us to the front bench. Contributions. Shadow. Minister. Mims Davies. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank all the hon. Members who've contributed to this debate today, and it is always a pleasure to speak on behalf of His Majesty's loyal opposition. Again, a
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Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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thoughtful, emotional and wide ranging debate, and the opening speech from the Minister speech from the Minister highlighted her joy at being at the highlighted her joy at being at the despatch box and reminded her, and her story reminded us of. Of so much that has been delivered by much that has been delivered by people like her and those that we all know locally, nationally, and continue to to do so much. She spoke about hope and unity over division and hate, and I'm always so proud to share the box with my hon.

Friend. For Daventry, who spoke about both how we balance trans people's rights, how we balance women's rights, how we talk about dignity, respect, compassion, and love. And he does it with such a personal experience himself. I'm so proud to to share this debate with him. And I'm sorry he can't be here for the close of it. And may I say to the hon. Member for Glasgow North, who spoke very powerfully about pride is a place, and I thought that was a beautiful speech.

Thank you for sharing that this afternoon. And pride should absolutely be an opportunity to not only celebrate LGBT people across our society, but recognise, of course, those who have lived through history with discrimination. My hon. Friend from Daventry talking about his younger life and reflect honestly, and I think we have today with the disparities that do remain and continue to renew our commitment in ensuring that Britain has a long and proud tradition of liberty and tolerance, that we are truly one of the best places in the world to live as an LGBT person, and that we all want and need it to stay that way.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I know you're particularly excited to be at Romsey's own Mini Pride, the One Romsey Festival next weekend, now celebrating its second year. Chance not to have to wear black, maybe sitting in in the chamber there, the chair of the Select Committee, the hon. Lady from Luton North, as always, powerful in her position and her thoughts mentioning we're always here on a Thursday. I love being here on a Thursday. I'll be here every day of the week if they let me.

But I do actually agree that it's, you know, challenging for some of our colleagues to, to join us. But I agree very much with her statement that it's not one or the other over the other in terms of rights. And I think and I, for one, have never thought that myself, the hon. Lady from Aberdeen North spoke, and I thought really importantly, about the time that you need to take to experiment who you are and who you want to be. Look, I wanted to be Madonna, Kim Wilde, Debbie Harry growing up, but guess what? I still want to be.

And you can just tell by the black eyeliner. So I really do think actually a reminder actually, we all go through stages. We need to learn. We need to give young people the space to, to learn. And I really appreciate her speaking up that way for, for my own party and, and society more broadly, we have gone through important and crucially profound shift in attitudes in recent decades to point out only a few examples of this shift and the pride that we have in our party, the election.

Sorry to the hon. Lady behind me of Ruth Davidson, of the first openly gay leader of a mainstream political party. What she brought to politics in Scotland. Justine Greening, the first openly lesbian Cabinet member and the ennoblement of my friend Debbie Stedman-scott, an outstanding public servant and colleague, someone who I'll happily

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thank the hon. Member for giving way. She rightly says that so much

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She rightly says that so much progress has been made across the LGBT family for equality. With many lesbians now standing and having lesbians now standing and having been prominent voices in the political sphere. But lesbian political sphere. But lesbian voices are so often underrepresented in. In politics, we face distinct challenges in we face distinct challenges in political representation and ensuring that our particular social and economic experiences are reflected in policy. So will she join with me in my call to encourage more lesbians, and indeed, more people from right across the LGBT community to stand for elections at whatever level of local or national government that they may choose to stand for.



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Well, I thank the hon. Lady for for that. Funnily enough, I'm going to go on to say exactly that in to go on to say exactly that in some of my remarks. So I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Lady and my colleagues have succeeded on merit. But to the hon. Lady's point, because they were asked to step forward, they were asked to be part of things. They were asked to stand and they didn't rely on their identity. But it was talent, talent, dedication and leadership.

And that's in everybody. However we identify, and I would absolutely say and has been said much in the chamber today, it should not affect your success, who you love. There should be no barrier to your success. Your ambition and who you love should not measure what your ambitions or success can be. Pride is there to allow everyone to represent equally for us not to be divided and for a safe, fair and equal. To be true equality for all of us.

And now I am concerned, and I think it's important that we recognise this in some quarters as raised today, pride has not been used to unite. It is being used to inflame tensions. We saw this in in a way, I suppose. Let's be honest about Monday's statement, when we saw speaker after speaker feeling that the Equality and Human Rights Code of practice is exclusionary and anti-trans, and we've heard some of that today, I fundamentally don't believe that. I do understand some people have said that today, and they do believe it.

And of course, that is the reality of this place. I reiterate that I believe that that characterisation is not correct. The Equality Act remains clear in its protections, including those related to gender reassignment. The code reinforces, rather than diminishes those protections. And it's important, I think, as we all agree, that the code works and it does not diminish wide ranging, hard fought rights. And of course, it reflects on other areas such as age and disability. And I think it's striking, to a degree, in the debate earlier this week that we didn't roundly acknowledge, as the hon.

Lady has just said, about the importance of lesbianism, that the code needs to work for same sex groups, particularly lesbian organisations. And I've spoken about this before. These groups have found themselves often at the sharp end between an increasingly fraught debate, fraught debate, may I say, about that relationship between biological sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. And there have been credible and real reports of lesbian groups being de-platformed, pressured or silenced simply for asserting their same sex attraction.

That is the reality for some women, and the fact that a representative of the LGB Alliance was required in 2024, just a couple of years ago to offer a legal definition of the term lesbian in court is still, frankly extraordinary. Now, it does reflect a wider confusion in terms of the erosion of hard won protections. And I think we should be wary. And I think we've all done that in the chamber this afternoon of repeating past mistakes where perhaps we have seen some marginalisation or dismissals, and particularly around same sex attraction.

Historically, we have heard from the hon. Member of EFRA Daventry. He talked about how much lesbian women have played a vital role, particularly during the Aids crisis, supporting gay men during some of the most difficult chapters of our history. And that solidarity should never Madam Deputy Speaker be forgotten, and nor should it be replaced with division. And I know there are some members in this House who are supporting the measures in EDM to 40, because it's apparently. And I think people are doing this because they don't necessarily fully appreciate the implications for women's rights, particularly for lesbians who rely on the clarity of law to maintain their safe single sex spaces.

And so do actually welcome the hon. Member for Macclesfield very thoughtful speech. In terms of approaching that. He covered some of his views on it. And so I think that does accord and I think one of the things that's very clear from what's been discussed in terms of the code of practice, that it's vital that health care for all matters. And I think that is something that we absolutely need to to look at, look on flags. I personally think we need less tribalism, more grown up and pragmatism, pragmatic conversations.

And I think we can and must protect women's rights and respect trans rights. I think we can find workable solutions. I don't think we should be arguing about flags. I think we can stand up for people, communities and crucially, harmony. And we do that in our party through the LGBT+ conservatives. For the hon. Member for Harlow, it is, I'm sorry, going to invite him out to the best night ever again, a conservative willing to to let him come out on the best night ever.

Let. The Conservative Party roundly believes that everyone should be treated equally before the law,

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regardless of their race, sex or sexual orientation. Yes, of course. Giving away she's. She's just said that we shouldn't be arguing said that we shouldn't be arguing about flags, and I totally agree with her on that point. I also with her on that point. I also think it should be up for councils and community groups to decide the version of the pride flag that they version of the pride flag that they choose to fly, whether that be the traditional pride flag or the progress pride flag.

That is. That progress pride flag. That is. That is my view. I don't think that that is arguing about flags. I think that's giving people choice. So is she comfortable with the leader of her party ordering conservatives up and down the country not to support flying the progress pride flag and taking away that choice? In fact,

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creating that argument? Yeah, yeah. Well, I thank the hon. Gentleman.

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Well, I thank the hon. Gentleman. I'm wearing my little conservative flag here, so I'm quite happy to flag here, so I'm quite happy to wear a flag, as many of our party are. As I say, the look, the are. As I say, the look, the Conservative Party roundly believes in treating everyone equally before in treating everyone equally before the law, regardless of race, sex or orientation. The original rainbow flag is a widely recognised symbol. I'm wearing it today in terms of respect and support for gay people.

My personal view is that the traditional rainbow flag already rightly brings us together. It's a sense of unity, and it should seek to bring us together and not divide us. The progress flag, by contrast, can be, some people see as a symbol of identity politics, somewhat atomising society into different and diverse identities. And so therefore, I am comfortable with our position in not not being behind that in the way that he says. But I fully respect his. Noah.

What I'm just going to conclude, if I may, but I fully respect that other people feel differently. Look, there's been lots of great agreement in this chamber, but let's be real. It's not going to be universality. That's the reality of politics and life today. But as I reiterate, safe, fair, equal equality under the law, regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation. And that is is my view. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, it would be remiss of me not to give an update at this box of Jed and Elliot's wedding.

Yes, I know she's waiting for the next instalment next month in the Isle of Wight. We will be finally seeing the betrothal, and that is absolutely one of the most exciting things to to be happening. And I'm delighted to be part of that celebration as so many. And I'm delighted to be reading at that wedding as well. I'm very proud of the conservative successes we've heard about. Same sex marriage, the Turing Law pardons, the apology to the LGBT veterans, progress on HIV testing and prep, the fair blood donation rules, and the real practical progress that we have made to change lives.

We all welcome Pride Month as a time to celebrate the contributions of the LGBT people that we know and love, both locally to our national life. We want more of them in our national life. We honour the progress made, and we commit ourselves to work for a future grounded in fairness, always in respect and genuine equality for all under the law. Thank you.

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Hey. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. With the leave of the House, it's With the leave of the House, it's an honour to close this debate on behalf of the government, and I would like to begin by thanking would like to begin by thanking members across the House for their thoughtful and powerful contributions this afternoon. These are always the best debates to be in, and today has been no exception. Today, we've heard speeches about progress one, the challenges that remain and the lived reality of Lgbt+ people in communities across the country.

And I'd like to pick out some highlights from the contributions this afternoon. This afternoon, briefly now, the right hon. Member for Daventry opened with a very moving speech, which included some upsetting testimony about his own personal experience of assault, and I commend him for his bravery in sharing that and say that he is also right, that pride is not just about big parades, but it's about the teenager who is scared and alone. And that pride is indeed a promise for remembering those people and ensuring that we can bring our community together.

He spoke about Lgbt+ health and he asked me a number of questions. So we know that Lgbt+ people experience significant health inequalities, and that's why we asked Doctor Michael Brady to undertake a review and we will publish this soon. We are also committed to improving adult gender services, and our ten year health plan will also tackle health inequalities. And I'd also like to thank him for his support on our ambition to end new HIV cases by 2030. The hon. Member, my friend the Member for Luton North and the chair of the Select Committee, made a very powerful speech, and she is, if I may say, a very powerful advocate for equality in this place.

I thank her for her comments on the code, and I note that her committee will have an important session next week with the chair of the Ehrc, and I'd like to thank her for sharing a really powerful story. And can I commend her for her bravery and for coming to share her fears with you? I agree with you, though, that her health is important, and I just want to say to Theresa that your safety matters. It's protected in law and we have strengthened the hate crime laws, and we are clear that trans people should not be left without facilities.

And the code does give a number of examples of how service providers can do this. And can I also say I think the hon. Member is right when she says that this is not a debate of women's rights versus trans rights, and we can live together, in her words, with joy and love. The hon. Member for Guildford spoke about young people today, and I think she's right, and it's wonderful to see the totally different approach that the younger generations have to questions of sexuality and gender identity.

And I join with her. And in celebrating that, she also asked me for clarity on the conversion practices timeline. And I will just say again that I'm working really hard to publish our draft bill as soon as possible. The hon. Member for Macclesfield again made a very powerful speech, and he is right that his election as the first gay MP for Macclesfield matters. Can I also thank everyone he mentioned from Macclesfield Pride and stride for pride. I understand the concerns that he outlined and the fear that he described in the trans community, and I want to say again that every trans person in this country deserves to live life safely and with dignity and respect.

And on the Ilga ranking point, I would like to say to him that I would like to see us climb those rankings again, and I'm very proud that we will be hosting the Idaho Plus Forum in London next year, which will be a really important moment for LGBT rights in this country. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North made a wide, very wide ranging speech. Let me just pick out a few. It was a very good speech. Let me pick out a few points on IVF.

I will take away her comments and say that we do recognise the unacceptable variability and access to to funded fertility services. And I also agree with her and the Member for Basingstoke on the importance of not forgetting the be in all of our debates. The hon. Member for Glasgow North made another very moving speech, and I remember the speech that he made in the last debate, where I had the pleasure of being here on the front bench listening to him. I found that a very powerful speech then, and I'm glad that his constituent found that a very important and powerful speech, too.

I also agree with him in his sentiment that pride is not just a march, but is everywhere, and I thank him for it. The Member for Brighton Pavilion reflected a real fear amongst her LGBT constituents. It's a fear that the government recognises and we're we're determined to ensure that every trans person can live safely and with dignity and respect. The Member for Basingstoke, my friend, is right that we must never stop fighting for progress. And can I also say that I greatly value his advocacy on behalf of his trans constituents? My friend the Member for Southend West and Leigh.

I would like to start by also sharing my thoughts and best wishes to the families of all those who lost their lives in the tragic Royal Navy helicopter crash yesterday, and thank him for his remarks on that. And can I also thank him for his campaigning on the pride flag? And he is right to challenge all of those who want to stop the Lgbt+ community expressing their pride, and I want to join with him in thanking all of the activists in our communities who make Pride Month and the whole year round so

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joyous for the LGBT community. On that point. I thank.

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I thank. The Minister. intervention. And for. Her warm words of the fantastic.

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Her warm words of the fantastic. Speeches that we. Have heard and the action that so many members have taken in this place and out of this place. But on place and out of this place. But on the point about. It's been mentioned, there's one party that's mentioned, there's one party that's wanted to stop pride and to stop pride flags being flown. But there's actually two. There's restore and reform. And who are they working for? My question is, who are they working for? Would the Minister agree with me that we need to not just look at what it is that they're saying, but who they are being funded by, whether it is Elon Musk, a transphobic megalomaniac, or whether it is overseas crypto

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bros with very dubious records. I thank her for that important intervention. And I will just say, intervention. And I will just say, I certainly think I will challenge, and it's important that all of us do continue to challenge any hate do continue to challenge any hate wherever we find it in our politics. wherever we find it in our politics. The. I also want to say to my friend, the hon. Member for South West and Lee, just a big thank you West and Lee, just a big thank you for all the work that he does on campaigning for LGBT rights.

My friend the Member for Bracknell made a very powerful speech. And can I just say, as somebody who grew up gay in his constituency, how glad I am that the LGBT community in Bracknell Forest have him as their representative. He made a very powerful speech and can I say how much I agree with him, that we must treat all of the debates that we have with dignity and respect, that people involved in those debates deserve. My friend the Member for Harlow is a fantastic ally and a fantastic champion for Harlow.

And I would just also say that Steven Vince sounds like a wonderful uncle and a wonderful person, and I thank him for bringing his story to the House again today. And I also agree with his important points about the importance of LGBT representation in literature, something which was very important to me, and certainly I am delighted to see the expansion of LGBT literature that we have seen in recent times, which I think is really important. Step forward, Madam Deputy Speaker, the range of voices we have heard today reminds us of something really, really important that pride is not a single story.

There are many stories, some of struggle, some of joy, but all of them are connected by a shared demand for dignity and respect. As I said in my opening speech, pride is not just about celebrating how far we've come. It's also about recognising how far we still have to go. And the members who have spoken in today's debate are right. We do have so much more to do. This government will continue to stand with Lgbtq+ people in this country and around the world.

We have acted to right the historic wrongs committed against LGBT veterans, committed to a trans inclusive ban on conversion practices, equalised hate crime
15:56
15:57
None Portrait Adjournment: Performance of the General Medical Council
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Don't just let people.
15:57
Steve Barclay Portrait Rt Hon Steve Barclay MP (North East Cambridgeshire, Conservative)
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. A nine year old constituent of mine, A nine year old constituent of mine, Jette Moat, died in 2015, two months after an operation was months after an operation was carried out on his hips by an orthopaedic consultant at Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge. Jack's mother, Elizabeth, said he spent his final weeks in constant, agonising pain. At the time, she had been told that his treatment had been properly reviewed and that no concerns, no concerns had been identified.

But an independent clinical review later found, and I quote evidence that fatal physical harm was caused. A nine year old boy in constant agonising pain. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, as you will be aware, as the case has been referred to the coroner and as a result of the Subjudice rule under which we operate, I am restricted in commenting further on the details of Jack's specific case. At this stage. It is, of course, vital that the inquest can ensure that the full truth is fully established.

But I want to ensure the Minister is someone respected across the House, and I wanted to ensure that through this adjournment debate, one of the key things on behalf of Elizabeth is that I can encourage the Minister to ask for a full briefing from her officials on the full aspects of this case, which is not constrained by the Subjudice rule. She is able to get that briefing from her officials, and I hope, therefore, that we she will be fully sighted on the issues that it gives rise to.

But, Madam Deputy Speaker, what I can say at this stage is regarding the wider regulatory landscape regarding clinicians and specifically the role of the GMC and which. Indeed, there is currently a live consultation titled reform in the General Medical Council, Legislative Council, and as the Minister will know, that consultation is open until the 23rd of June. So this adjournment debate is timely given that consultation now. The issues at Cambridge University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust raise very serious, wider patient safety concerns.

In the context of this consultation, and specifically where concerns are raised. But a trust does not act, where trust does not act, even after a whistleblower has raised concerns where other clinicians fail to intervene, where regulatory oversight does not step in, it is vital in the context of their consultation, that the GMC takes the opportunity to review how they reform the issue of medical practices that are problematic in terms of how they are carried out expeditiously, and to ensure that they're not strung out over a period of many years, as I will come on to highlight and where shortcomings in medical practice are discovered, the GMC should act immediately to protect patients rather than waiting for the outcome of a coroner's process, which may take many years to conclude, during which time potentially further harm could be caused.

And I hope the House indeed will revisit the circumstances of Jack's case once the coroner's process has been concluded, and I hope the Minister will commit to returning to the House to make a statement at that point. So the issues which cannot be raised today can be debated without restriction. Alongside that issue with the GMC, I want Madam Deputy Speaker to raise two further points. And firstly, a second point relates to the GMC's judgement and specifically its poor judgement in relation to antisemitism.

Now the Minister on the bench will have noticed her own department's response just this morning to Lord Mann's recommendations to tackle what he describes as routine ostracism of Jewish people in the NHS. The government's advisers description, and indeed Ministers quite rightly have said that all racism in the NHS is abhorrent. Yet current practice at the GMC to me falls significantly below the expectations set out in Lord man's report. And given that his recommendations are very welcomely accepted by the government and accepted in full, then there must be an expectation that the consultation.

Indeed, reform of the GMC reflects that. So world health Ministers require the GMC to change the current threshold for what they see as a standard compatible with NHS clinician. Let me give you a specific example that illustrates the current gap between the GMC and what I see as the government's response to Lord Mann's report. Just a few weeks ago. Madam Deputy Speaker, the NHS clinician Doctor Martin White, was seen as fit by the GMC to be allowed to join the GMC specialist register, a senior role within the NHS.

Yet when I was Secretary of State for health, I reported Doctor Martin White to the GMC following quite abhorrent social media comments and was. It's distressing to read it out. I think it is important for the House to hear exactly what this doctor that has just been put on to the GMC specialist Register had to say. For example. Ha ha ha! Sieg heil ha ha ha! Gas the Jews! Ha ha ha! Just kidding. But have you seen these YouTube videos about the whole holohoax? They're pretty convincing IMO.

This is a doctor in another trade. Ha ha ha. You thinking baby man, how are you still so prominent at the BBC? Did you and Tony Hill kill a prostitute together or something? Another tweet talks of Jew bank goblins. Gives a sense of the character that we are dealing with now. Interestingly, and obviously, I had a sometimes challenging relationship with the BMA during my time as health secretary, but even the BMA, who Doctor White unsuccessfully tried to sue.

But even the BMA said that he was someone that could never return to represent them in any elected office. So the BMA found him unpalatable, but not, it seems, the GMC. And this is not an isolated case, the campaign against Antisemitism has said, and I quote, Britain's regulatory bodies are failing the Jewish community. Time and again, doctors who spew anti-Semitic bile online and in the streets are being allowed to continue practising medicine. And again, that was a flavour of Lord Mann's report this morning.

And it either. Or other examples. I won't go through them all. But just to give one example, Doctor Ruhana Ali, a consultant neurologist who was reinstated just last year, who said the architect of the October the 7th sacks was a legend and called for Israel to be dismantled and claim nine over 11 was conducted by Mossad. So such examples, which I have no doubt horrify the Minister. Given her good reputation in the House, I'm sure these horrifying members on all benches of the House, but it does point to why this consultation is timely.

But why, in response to Lord Mun's report, we need to see action in respect of the GMC. The third issue, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wanted to highlight was just regarding the wider poor performance of the GMC. I mean, this is an organisation spending north of £100 million on staff costs. It's got over 1700 staff, and yet doctor fitness to practise hearings are taking almost two years to process on average, with a recent increase in cases open for three years or more.

Now, why this time matters is because the NHS must continue to pay suspended doctors in full until they are formally found to be guilty of misconduct or incompetence. So this just adds to the grievance that families feel when they see a doctor being paid. For years, even though there were very serious concerns regarding their fitness to practice. Never mind the fact that during that time, quite often if they do continue to practice, there may be risk ongoing to patients.

Further, in October last year, it came to light again just last year that the GMC had allowed doctors with restrictions regarding their overseas practice to then practice without restrictions here, something which clearly could put patients at risk. And it's notable that even the Medical Defence Union has called for new legislation so the GMC can overhaul their processes. So can I ask the Minister whether she will use amendments in the health bill as an opportunity, and, if not, which legislation she will use in order to address some of these issues regarding the GMC.

Now, in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also, in the spirit of balance, want to be very clear about what I think is an important distinction when dealing with regulatory bodies, and that is between the sort of cases I've highlighted to the House today and those of medics who have made a genuine mistake, often in a highly pressured environment, and where indeed we want to encourage a culture of openness and learning. And indeed, I think going back to the 2011 case, that Doctor Bawa-garba case, I think a lot of the backlash to that was indeed the sense that using the clinical reflections that had been made in good faith, as part of that learning, then being used in legal proceedings, or the extent to which possibly a trainee was being scapegoated, were part of the concerns of the wider profession.

But I hope the House can see there is a marked distinction between the gravity of the cases that I am highlighting today, and those of an under-pressure clinician who has made, in the heat of a pressured situation, a genuine mistake, and where there is a spirit of openness and transparency in how that is then addressed. And I think that is a distinction that I'm sure the Minister herself can draw. And indeed, can I welcome the fact that, if I understand it correctly, Ministers are minded to give the Professional Standards Authority greater powers, including ensuring it has the information necessary to make decisions on exercising its right to appeal fitness, to practice decisions, and to enable a more agile approach to regulatory performance monitoring.

And if that is what the Minister says in a response, then I would see that as very welcome. So in closing, Madam Deputy Speaker, how we better protect patients is a long running issue. I know a number of my predecessors, as Secretary of State for health were focussed on this. Indeed, the Member for Godalming and Ash in particular focussed very extensively on patient safety. When I was his deputy in the department. For my part, when I was, I focussed very much on trying to give families more voice within the NHS with things like the mother's rule or greater transparency on data.

And it's clear from the government's response just this morning that the current ministerial team are also focussed sincerely in this area in terms of how patient safety can be better enhanced. But that does require a regulator in the form of the GMC that is fit for purpose. I think there are significant areas of concern, and I hope the Minister will use legislation before the House alongside the current consultation, in order to address some of the concerns that I've

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raised today. Dave Robertson thank you, Madam thanking.

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thanking. The right hon. Member for North East Cambridgeshire for bringing this debate, debate today and his advocacy on behalf of his constituents, and I do hope that Jack's family can gain some small solace at what must be a terrible solace at what must be a terrible time for them by his story and being raised in this place. I have being raised in this place. I have the great privilege in this place of being a co-chair of the all party parliamentary group for survivors of Muhammad Fayyad, the former owner of Harrods.

And I do say that is a privilege, because I have the privilege of working with dozens of survivors who can bring
16:12
Dave Robertson Portrait Dave Robertson MP (Lichfield, Labour)
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their stories to us, and the members of that APPG can drive forward the the agenda of really forward the the agenda of really bringing those crimes to light and making sure that we can dismantle the systems that enable that abuse the systems that enable that abuse for so, so long, which is why I wanted to take the opportunity tonight to place on record the very tonight to place on record the very serious concerns that survivors of abuse by Fylde and his associates abuse by Fylde and his associates have about the failings of the General Medical Council in relation to his case and the associated ones.

I'm sure right honourable, hon. Members will know that Mohamed Al-Fayed has been accused of systematic trafficking for sexual abuse, aided by a network of enablers. Almost 500 survivors have come forward to tell their stories so far, and there are believed to be many, many, many more. Fayed has rightly been called the UK's Epstein. One dimension of the network that enabled his abuse relates to invasive medical exams that he had doctors perform on female staff at various companies that he owned.

They were billed as standard company medicals, but involved invasive gynaecological procedures and STI testing. In many cases, survivors say results were delivered straight to their abuser without their knowledge. These women have been left with significant trauma. And if you've heard from directly from survivors, as I have, you would no doubt be astonished by the very serious consequences of that abuse. And yet the doctors who carried out these tests have not paid any price. Survivors are still waiting for justice.

In one case, one of those doctors who's been accused is still practising on Harley Street. Today, the General Medical Council says it has a zero tolerance approach to sexual misconduct, as it should. And as I'm sure all right, honourable and hon. Members would expect them to. Yet survivors tell me that their complaints to the GMC have gone unacknowledged and unaddressed for far too long now. This is simply unacceptable, as I'm sure we would all agree. appalling. These women have been left with nowhere to turn.

Medical have been prioritising their safety and their health. Who should have been a safe port of call to report abuse. Those medical staff were instead complicit in it. The GMC should be acting to strike off any doctor found to have participated in these disgusting abuses, and I welcome the attention that the government is rightly giving the issue. It was a difficult day yesterday, being part of a meeting between the all party group and the Prime Minister, or the Prime Minister, was the first sitting Prime Minister to meet with a group of survivors of historic sexual assault and abuse.

And the PM in that meeting made it very clear that that was the first step in ongoing engagement on that. So I wonder if the Minister might be able to carve out an opportunity to meet with me and the co-chair of the group, the hon. Member for North East Fife, to discuss where the GMC's responsibilities in this regard lie, and if this consultation that's currently open might be the opportunity where we can try and feed into that and make sure that the GMC is acting in a space where they failed far too

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many women for far too long. Thank you, Minister.

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Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I thank the right hon. Gentleman, the Member for North East Cambridgeshire, for raising East Cambridgeshire, for raising this extremely serious matter this afternoon very powerfully on behalf afternoon very powerfully on behalf of his constituent Elizabeth, and the tragic loss of her son, Jack. And our thoughts are obviously with her and the rest of the family. And her and the rest of the family. And it is a great privilege, isn't it, Madam Deputy Speaker, that in this place we find ourselves as members
16:15
Karin Smyth Portrait Karin Smyth MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Bristol South, Labour)
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of Parliament, undertaking with tragedies, but we are able to give constituents a voice, and that is a great honour, a sad one, but one we take very seriously. And I commit to working with the honourable, to working with the honourable, right, hon. Gentleman as we move forward from this debate. Madam Deputy Speaker The General Medical Deputy Speaker The General Medical Council is there first and foremost, as he said, to protect patients and maintain public confidence in the maintain public confidence in the medical profession.

And it is the regulator of all medical doctors and anaesthesia associates and physicians, associates practising in the United Kingdom, defining standards for ethics, competence and patient safety, and has a duty to investigate concerns about doctors performance or conduct. Now, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned the Right to Review in his remarks. Let me start there. In January of last year, Cambridge University Hospital commissioned an objective investigations company to undertake a review of the hospital's governance and meanwhile, the Kennedy report into the missed opportunities surrounding doctor stores case is still ongoing.

The report was published in October and it made 23 recommendations. These broad themes that emerged from that investigation were, firstly, that doctors needed more oversight, clinical supervision and performance management. Secondly, improving safety governance through better board level visibility and escalation pathways. Thirdly, proper oversight of clinical reviews, ensuring they are acted on promptly and changes are made. And finally, a change in medical culture and behaviour. So staff felt empowered to hold their hands up when things go wrong. The trust has accepted the findings, published an action plan and apologised to affected families.

As I understand it, Madam Deputy Speaker, we do expect the hospital to implement the findings of the review in full because Jack Moates family deserve absolute transparency from the authorities, and they have the absolute right to know that lessons will be learned when things go wrong. Now, the right hon. Gentleman has written to the Department recently in the 15th of May, and his letter makes very clear that this is one of the worst and most distressing cases he and his long experience has ever encountered.

And having read that, I agree with him and I know he does not use those words lightly, and I can confirm that the GMC have done the right thing now and have launched an investigation into the conduct of Kuldip store. Now, as I said, the GMC are an independent body and I know he understands this. And so I know he knows that I can't go into all the specifics of an individual case, and he knows that from his time as a health Secretary, it would be wrong for me to give any further commentary on a live investigation, not least because that could prejudice the outcome and be a barrier to Jack's family getting justice.

Suffice to say that I am just as appalled as the right hon. Gentleman is that this has gone on for so long. It has taken then almost a decade of missed opportunities for the families to start getting the answers they deserve. Now, I understand the former Minister for Patient Safety, my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West, met some of the families in November. He also intended to go to Cambridge to meet with families and representatives of the trust, and I can today confirm that the new Minister for Patient Safety, my hon.

Friend the Member for Birmingham Edgbaston is willing to meet with the right hon. Gentleman and the Mowat family to discuss the circumstances of their case, and I hope that they can take some comfort from knowing that while my friend is new in post, she absolutely takes these issues very seriously. She's been a champion for her own constituents who face patient safety failures in her own trust, and she will be following this case very closely indeed. Moving on to some of the other issues that the right hon.

Gentleman mentioned, it may be helpful for me to outline the broader principles that are governing the GMC and its framework, where an allegation is made about a doctor, the GMC has a duty to investigate and, where necessary, take action to safeguard the health and wellbeing of the public. And in serious cases, they can refer a doctor to the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service. These proceedings can result in doctors being removed from the medical register, which strips away their right to legally practice medicine in this country.

The MP is a statutory committee of the GMC, which means that it operates separately and independently, which is crucial to maintaining public confidence in its findings, and the tribunals have a legal duty to protect the public, and we have clear expectations of them. This year we are taking action to modernise the regulation of all health care professionals in the UK, and in March we published the consultation on reforming the General Medical Council's legislative framework. The reforms would make the process for assessing a doctor's fitness to practise swifter and fairer and, as we have heard, the consultation runs until the 23rd of June.

Now he tempts me at this stage to consider amendments to the health Bill. He knows from his experience that I'm not going to commit to doing that, but obviously I commit to to discussing further subject, I mean, subject to the outcome of that consultation. And I encourage others, including the hon. Member for Lichfield, who has also raised the shocking case in the case, to engage with that consultation. And obviously, we will consider the outcomes of that in the light of other things, obviously, to before bringing before to this House when we.

But currently we expect to lay the. The General Medical Council order later this year, subject to those conversations, and I'm happy to ensure that I can commit with the right hon. Gentleman and the Member for Lichfield. If there's any further meetings or meetings with officials, given the tight deadline to to to support that going forward, if I can. Madam Deputy Speaker, just touch on the Mann review, which the right hon. Gentleman also highlighted. The NHS, as we all know, was founded on the principle of treating everyone equally and with respect.

And we have been crystal clear that racism and discrimination betray everything the NHS stands for and its ability to provide safe, world class care. And that is why the former Secretary of State. My right hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North asked the noble Lord Mann to conduct a review into anti-Semitism and other forms of racism in NHS, and as the right hon. Gentleman said this morning, Lord Mann published a series of robust and practical recommendations and we support every one of them.

He's. He's made some shocking read out some shocking statements again this this evening from his time when he was Health Secretary that he has reported on. I can't comment on that now, but can I assure him and and other hon. Members that in the weeks and months ahead, we will work with all organisations that have been named in the review, including the GMC, to ensure that partners across the system are supported in delivering meaningful change. Based on those recommendations. Madam Deputy Speaker, trust is the glue that holds our institutions together.

The public have an absolute right, of course, that they can trust their doctor and where things do go wrong, they have the right to swift and transparent justice. I can't imagine to begin what Jack's family, and especially his poor mum, are going through. And the system that we build has to do right by families like their. I thank them for their consideration in discussing this with with with us, and I know there are many other families involved, and I absolutely commit to working further with the right hon.

Gentleman and others in

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this case to do just that. The question is that this House do now adjourn as many as are of do now adjourn as many as are of that opinion, say I, I the ayes
09:00
None Portrait Oral questions: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
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