Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Gove Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
Mr Speaker, may I wish you and the whole House a safe and happy Christmas, on this, the last scheduled day of the Session?
The Government are committed to protecting and promoting the combined strengths of our Union, building on 300 years of partnership. It is vital that we continue to work across the UK on the challenges that we all face together, such as our recovery from covid-19, and to focus on issues such as protecting jobs and supporting the NHS.
Ben Everitt
I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Perhaps he will agree that there can be no better example of the strength of our Union and of all four nations—the awesome foursome—working together than the successful funding, deployment, roll-out and creation of covid-19 vaccines, keeping communities safe across all four nations.
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a vital point. Across all four nations of the United Kingdom people are being vaccinated thanks to the energetic efforts of the vaccine taskforce, my right hon. Friend the Secretary State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and, of course, our superb NHS. It is a source of particular pleasure to me that Scotland is enjoying that vaccine thanks to the efforts of the UK Government: proof that our NHS means that we are stronger together.
Douglas Chapman [V]
Today, a poll revealed that 58% of Scots would vote for independence. This is the 17th consecutive poll to show a positive result and we are seeing a rise in support for independence across all age groups. The Cabinet Office can hoist as many Union flags as it wants, but what part of “We are leaving” does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster not understand?
Michael Gove
Of course, surveys of opinion are always fascinating, but the figures that I am interested in are those which show that the UK Government are spending more per capita in Scotland than they are in other parts of the United Kingdom and that thousands of Scots are now being vaccinated thanks to the efforts of the UK Government. If we look at a map of the world to see which countries are having their citizens vaccinated, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England are ahead of the pack: stronger together.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
You most certainly can, Mr Speaker, and thank you.
I listened carefully to the right hon. Gentleman’s answer, and yes, we are grateful for the vaccine, but I did not hear a response as to why he thinks that Scottish independence has now become the settled will of the Scottish people. This is not like him. He is usually quick to give his views about certain things, so why does he think that Scottish independence has sustained majority support, reaching a height of 58%, and is now the settled will of the Scottish people? Why is that the case?
Michael Gove
It is great to have the hon. Gentleman here, live and unplugged, rather than having to rely on a distant video screen, because his performance is always one that we savour. Sadly, however, I fear that his reliance on opinion polls is no substitute for his aversion to hard arguments. Why will he not engage with the facts? The facts show that, in Scotland, per capita spending including on our shared NHS is greater as a result of the broad shoulders of the UK Treasury. As I pointed out earlier, but as he declined to acknowledge, folk in Scotland are being vaccinated now, thanks to the efforts of the UK Government in a world-leading programme. I hope that, in the spirit of Christmas, he will acknowledge that this is a time for giving, and that he will, just once, give the benefit of the doubt to the UK Government.
Pete Wishart
I am likely to be the ghost of Christmas future, because it is not going the right hon. Gentleman’s way. Let me try to give him a few reasons. Let us see if he agrees with any of these: the disastrous Brexit that Scotland did not vote for; the attacks on our democracy; the undermining of our Parliament; and the Prime Minister—him. Maybe they are some of the reasons that we are now in the lead, but the main one is the arrogantly Trumpian way in which the right hon. Gentleman says no to a majority in a democracy. Does he think that constantly saying no to a majority in Scotland will drive support for independence down, or will it only further drive support for independence up?
Michael Gove
The Scottish Parliament is enjoying more powers now as a result of our departure from the European Union. Those powers allow the devolved legislature to have its own agriculture and environment policy, to supplement the leadership that it has been showing in other areas. As we move towards the elections that are coming next year, many people will focus on the record of the Scottish Government. Of course there are admirable Ministers in the Scottish Government, but people will be asking why the UK Government are responsible for vaccinating people in Scotland and yet the Scottish Government are responsible for a decline in educational achievement in Scotland’s schools and a growing divide between the well-off and less well-off. Social justice matters, and that is why, in the forthcoming Scottish parliamentary elections, the Scottish Conservatives will be making gains at the hon. Gentleman’s expense.
Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con)
Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 5, 6 and 7 together, because they are such good questions. They really are superb questions, and it is only right that they be taken together, in a one-er, in a group, as a collective. Intensive talks are ongoing, with both negotiating teams working day and night to reach a deal. We are going the extra mile and continuing the negotiations to see whether an agreement can be reached, and we will of course continue to keep Parliament informed on our progress.
Dehenna Davison
I thank my right hon. Friend for his slightly delayed answer. He showed last week how successful the UK Government can be in negotiating with the EU, in their successful agreement in the Joint Committee. Will he therefore confirm that, although he has shown that the UK can do a deal with the EU, the Government will only conclude a deal on a free trade agreement that is in the best interests of our country and will be willing to walk away if they have no other choice?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is right; even if sometimes results are coming later than we might have wanted, I know that we will be doing everything to secure a good free trade agreement in the interests of the whole United Kingdom. The electors of Bishop Auckland, whom she represents so brilliantly, were clear when they voted to leave the EU that we need to do so by 31 December, and we will.
Mrs Murray [V]
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Opposition’s apparent position of agreeing a deal no matter what is a ridiculous one to take during any negotiation?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is right; the Opposition party has taken a number of different position on Brexit over the past few months, weeks and perhaps even days, but one thing that has never been clear is where exactly its red lines are. Ours are clear: we will always stand up for the United Kingdom. May I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the magnificent way in which she stood up for our coastal communities and fishing sector? Outside the common fisheries policy they will prosper, thanks to her.
Sally-Ann Hart
Fishing is reportedly a sticking point in the negotiations. My local fishermen in Hastings and Rye need to have faith that this Conservative Government will not sacrifice them, as previous Governments have, for free trade with the EU. Can I be confident in reassuring them that this Government will provide the basis for trust to be restored and built upon?
Michael Gove
Yes; my hon. Friend does an excellent job in standing up for her constituents in Hastings and Rye. The fishermen she represents so effectively know that we, as an independent coastal state, will be in control of our waters at the end of the transition period. Of course we want to make sure that we manage shared stocks in an appropriate way with all of our neighbours, including those outside the EU, but as an independent coastal state we are in control.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
We all wish the negotiators well in this final stage, as they demonstrate that sharing sovereignty—gaining benefits by accepting obligations—is what will be required in order to reach the agreement that the Government say they want and which we all want. Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether the legislation that will be required to give effect to any agreement will need to pass all of its stages in Parliament by 31 December this year in order to provide clarity to individual businesses about what they can do from 1 January next year, which is, after all, only 15 days away?
Michael Gove
The right hon. Gentleman reminds us all of the importance of seeking to conclude these negotiations as quickly as possible. If they are concluded satisfactorily, we will request that the House returns in order to make sure that we can legislate effectively. We believe we can pass the necessary legislation before 31 December to give businesses legal certainty for the future.
Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)
This is how the Prime Minister described his oven-ready deal last November:
“put it in Gas Mark 4, 20 minutes and Bob’s your uncle.”
The Minister is nodding. Clearly, the Government have delivered half of it—leaving the European Union—but we have now passed six of the Prime Minister’s deadlines for the other half, which is the agreement on our new relationship with the EU. In those same comments last November, the Prime Minister promised to end “dither and delay”. This week, we have heard of companies that have stopped exporting to the EU because of the uncertainty created by the Government’s handling of these negotiations. Has the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster made an assessment of how many jobs have been lost through their incompetence?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reminding us that the Prime Minister not only secured a handsome election victory just over a year ago but did so on the basis of having secured a withdrawal agreement that passed this House, which meant that we left the European Union in January. Part of that withdrawal agreement was a protocol on Northern Ireland; some doubted that we would be able to reach a satisfactory conclusion, but we did. Others doubt that we will be able to have a satisfactory cause for celebration at the end of this year, when the transition period ends; I invite the hon. Gentleman to wait and see on that.
Paul Blomfield
I think we are all waiting to see.
Let me ask the Minister about a different part of the negotiations. When I have asked him previously, he has been unable to confirm that we will have access to the real-time information systems that we need to identify foreign criminals at our borders. We both understand why the Government’s position has prevented him from giving that confirmation. This morning, speaking on Radio 4 just over an hour ago, the Home Secretary was pressed on the issue and said:
“All the type of channels that we have used in the past we will continue to use going forward.”
Was she right? Anything less than an unequivocal endorsement will indicate that she was not.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The Government have been clear that the transition period will end on 31 December. We have made extensive preparations for a wide range of outcomes, including through a package of support for border infrastructure and the customs intermediary sector, and, of course, the phased implementation of border controls. A trader support service is also in place to help businesses trading under the Northern Ireland protocol, and we are scaling up the provision of Government helplines.
Christine Jardine [V]
A great deal of concern has been expressed to me by local businesses in Edinburgh West, and there are national concerns among industries such as the whisky sector, about the difficulties businesses are having with things like not knowing how they should label products given that there is, as yet, no clarity about our future relationship with the European Union. Anything that the Government can do to extend the period of adjustment would be appreciated by businesses and would help to offset the Scottish National party drive towards breaking up the United Kingdom, about which I know the Government share my concern.
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady is absolutely right; we need to do everything we can to support businesses in Scotland and elsewhere. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is doing everything she can to help the whisky sector, not least through discussions with the US trade representative, Robert Lighthizer. More broadly, we want to make sure, in the free trade agreement that we seek, that there can be a smooth glide path for businesses in Scotland and elsewhere. I look forward to continuing to work with the hon. Lady. She has been a consistent voice for Scotland’s businesses, both in the House and before she came to the Commons, and her advocacy, free of any partisan agenda, is something of which her constituents should be proud.
Dr Huq
The Minister is forever the smooth talker, as we saw in his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), but how exactly will our police access those real-time Schengen most-wanted criminal databases in 14 days’ time? With 15,000 UK extradition requests in both directions last year alone under the European arrest warrant, how can he guarantee that, when we leave, Britain does not become a safe haven for murderers, rapists, terrorists and other cross-border criminals? People want precision on prosperity and security and, frankly, his one-liners are not good enough.
Michael Gove
I try not to weary the House with over-long answers. On the hon. Lady’s substantive point, it is the case that we have extensive security and law enforcement and justice co-operation with our friends in the European Union and, indeed, beyond and we will make use of all the instruments necessary in order to keep people safe.
Chris Elmore
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will know that, last week, my Ogmore constituents received a hammer blow with the news that INEOS has decided to pull out of building their 4x4s, which had been promised by the ardent Brexiteer, Jim Ratcliffe. The irony that INEOS’s owner was such a vocal supporter of Brexit and has now fled to France to build his 4x4s has not been lost on any of my hard-working and highly skilled constituents. What assurances can the Minister give me that he is working to try to bring about more support for job growth in highly skilled manufacturing that can work for the people of south Wales?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. It is the case that, in South Wales, there is a concentration of skilled workers in advanced manufacturing who are the pride of the world. It is also the case, of course, that General Dynamics in Merthyr Tydfil, which is new to his constituency, is receiving support and investment from the defence industrial strategy. I look forward to working with him and indeed with the Welsh Government to ensure that his constituents can prosper in the future. It is absolutely vital that we work together to ensure that the skilled workers of the valleys have the bright future that they deserve.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
It is the case that I have regular contact with Ministers in the devolved Administrations in order to ensure that we can work effectively together in our negotiations with the EU, the last of which was on 3 December, when the Joint Ministerial Committee on EU negotiations met.
John Lamont [V]
Despite its warm words about being pro-trade, the Scottish National party has consistently voted against or abstained on trade deals coming before this House. Does the Minister agree that international trade is essential for supporting jobs across Scotland, and that by failing to support these trade deals the SNP is letting down workers across Scotland?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As has been pointed out by the Minister of Trade at this Dispatch Box on a number of occasions and, as he has reminded us, the SNP has never found a trade deal that it could vote for or like at any point. It is also the case that it wants to erect barriers between Scotland and its biggest trading partner—the rest of the United Kingdom. Trade brings prosperity. The SNP is not in favour of trade and therefore not in favour of Scotland’s prosperity.
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
For centuries, the ability to trade freely without barriers across the United Kingdom has been the cornerstone of our shared prosperity, and the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill will help to maintain this integrated market to ensure the free flow of goods and services throughout the UK.
Neil Gray [V]
The majority support for independence in the last 17 polls in a row—58% this morning—is in part due to how Scotland has been treated by the Minister and his colleagues since the Brexit referendum. It is exemplified by the dictatorial United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, which rips the devolution settlement apart and is now the subject of legal challenge. Why are the UK Government unilaterally legislating without legislative consent with the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill when the required common frameworks could have been negotiated with the devolved nations, as they are still at the table?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. As he knows, I am a great admirer of him and of his colleague Alex Neil. One of the things about the approach that we are taking is that common frameworks work alongside the internal market Bill. Indeed, the House of Lords confirmed that approach just this week.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The House will know that last week I made a statement confirming that vice-president Maroš Šefčovič of the European Commission and I had reached agreement in principle on the implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol. As set out in my written statement issued yesterday, I am pleased to say that vice-president Šefčovič and I shall be meeting again later today in a formal session of the withdrawal agreement Joint Committee. I look forward to updating the House on the outcome of that meeting.
Jonathan Edwards
I was contacted late last night by a businessman in my constituency who is reliant on imports from the continent. He cannot find a haulage firm willing to carriage on his behalf, due to the current delays at the ports. He is very concerned; unless this issue is resolved, his business will not survive into the new year. What is the Minister’s advice to my constituent?
Michael Gove
I know what a diligent constituency Member the hon. Gentleman is. If he gets in touch with my office, I will be directly in touch with the business concerned.
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con) [V]
Michael Gove
I can absolutely reassure my hon. Friend that, as set out at the spending review, funding for the UK shared prosperity fund will be increased so that it at least matches the EU receipts on average, which reached around £1.5 billion a year. We will publish a UK-wide framework in the spring, which will set out full details, and to help local areas prepare for the introduction of the SPF, we are providing the additional £220 million that my hon. Friend referred to. Of course, we will work closely with Cornwall to ensure that it gets the funding that it needs and for which he is such an effective advocate.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)
The UK’s ports are our gateway to the world. Yesterday, the port infrastructure fund was finally announced. We found out that Dover did not get the £33 million that it asked for; instead, it got just £33,000. Portsmouth faces a shortfall of £8 million. The Minister recently visited that port, so he knows its huge importance. Why have the Government short-changed vital infrastructure critical to the everyday economy, while at the same time wasting millions of pounds on consultants and middlemen as part of Tory cronyism?
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady raises an important issue. The funding in the port infrastructure fund was specifically available for projects that were due to be delivered by July next year, when full import controls will be in place. Dover was bidding for some infrastructure that would be complete by 2023, which is intended, of course, to take advantage of the new opportunities that control over our borders will bring. We are working with Dover to ensure that a new approach towards juxtaposed controls can be in place.
We are also working with Portsmouth. Portsmouth port is not unique, but it is certainly singular in that it is owned by the local authority, which does a very good job. We are working with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the Department for Transport and others to ensure that not just the port but the broader infrastructure in Portsmouth and that part of Hampshire is sufficient for the needs of port users.
Rachel Reeves
I thank the Minister for that answer, but he needs to give greater assurances that there will not be the delays and disruption that we all fear. A letter from the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez), to my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan) states:
“Ministers…decided that all bids which are recommended to be supported will be funded to 66%”.
Not 100%, but just 66%. What a false economy given the cost to British businesses and consumers of delays and disruption at the border. Will the Government publish the full rationale for each of their 53 port decisions, not least since some companies received next to nothing while one port company, which coincidentally pays a former Tory Cabinet Minister £100,000 a year, was awarded £26 million yesterday by this Government?
Michael Gove
Of course, we would be delighted to make sure that the full assessment criteria are shared with the hon. Lady and with all constituency Members. The port infrastructure team had an independent team to look at the eligibility of all the ports that applied and to assess all the bids. They were done on the most rigorous of bases. It is the case that a number of ports have welcomed the additional funding and the additional infrastructure support it will give, but we will continue to work with all ports to ensure we can have a world-class border. The publication today of our future border plan for 2025 lays out the means by which we will do so.
Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Lowestoft is a hugely important port. All the ports in Suffolk and those that serve the North sea are ports in which we wish to invest, because, as he rightly points out, their potential, not just when it comes to increased access to our own fishing waters but new investment in renewables, is growing all the time. Our border strategy, which we published today, has been published in consultation with other Government Departments. He is absolutely right that we need to continue to work with them to take advantage of the opportunities of the future.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) [V]
Michael Gove
Bore da, Mr Speaker, and to the hon. Gentleman. It is the case that the UK Government have been clear about the importance of maintaining sovereignty, the right to diverge and full control over our waters. We shall not be ambiguous about that, but we are determined, if we can, to reach a free trade agreement. Our negotiators are working hard to that end.
Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)
Michael Gove
Not just the company my hon. Friend mentions, but Royal Doulton, Wedgwood, Spode and of course more recently Emma Bridgewater. Those are names that are known across the globe. They shine a light on the brilliant ceramics sector that is housed in Stoke-on-Trent and the potteries towns. We will ensure in the future, as we leave the European Union, that across the world people have the chance to dine off and to drink from the first-class products made in his and his neighbours’ constituencies.
Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con) [V]
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. May I take this opportunity briefly to thank him for the work he has undertaken as vice-chairman of the all-party group on coronavirus and the work he continues to do on the NHS frontline. He has shown real leadership in the fight against this dreadful virus. He is absolutely right that we need to improve procurement. The procurement Green Paper published earlier this week is a part of that, but I hope to work with him and others on the frontline to ensure that the Department of Health and Social Care does even better in the future.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]
Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con)
Michael Gove
May I, first, join you, Mr Speaker, in lamenting the absence of the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq)? I hope that she is well and—[Interruption.] Anyway, we are all rooting for her.
Michael Gove
You are absolutely right. I lament all these absences, but I am even more grateful for the presence of my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Tom Randall), who has asked his second question in this session. It is a very good one because he is absolutely right. The increasing and welcome support for the spread of real ale has meant that necessarily, as pubs have closed and moved towards takeaway, we have lost some of that production, and those in the hospitality sector have faced very difficult times. He is absolutely right that we need to work more closely with the hospitality sector to understand the pressures that they face at this very difficult time, and I am grateful to him for raising this issue.
Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con) [V]
Michael Gove
I can only agree with my hon. Friend: Derbyshire is a great place to live. It rivals Lancashire in the many attractions that it has for people of good taste. Early in the new year, we will be announcing steps that we are taking to move more jobs and more civil service responsibilities out of Whitehall and into locations such as Derbyshire, Lancashire and, of course, Teesside.
Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab) [V]
Michael Gove
I am very grateful for the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. He is a brilliant campaigner and a doughty fighter. He has been at the frontline of the trade union movement and at the heart of the Labour party for many years. He puts his case very, very well. I respectfully disagree with him on the particular case that he mentions, but I do agree with him on the broader need for us all to recognise the significant sacrifice that the working people across this country have been making during the covid pandemic, and I thank him for the way in which he has fought for his constituents to ensure that our NHS is there for them. I look forward to working with him outside the to and fro of this Chamber because I know what a great-hearted man he is.
Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
Several businesses in my constituency of Kensington are major importers; I think, for example, of Innocent Drinks, which is a large importer of fruit juice. Clearly such businesses do not want to have to pay tariffs. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that no stone is being left unturned in trying to negotiate a free trade agreement with Europe?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. The constituency she represents is home to a variety of innovative businesses, many of which trade successfully with Europe. This is why we are doing everything we can to secure a free trade agreement, but of course it cannot come at any price. I am grateful to her for endorsing Innocent Drinks, although at this time of year I hope we all have the chance to indulge in some not-so-innocent drinks as well.
Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab)
The Government’s plans to mimic the Republican party’s voter suppression tactics risk denying millions of people the right to vote. Hardest hit will be already marginalised groups such as the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. Despite their already being one of the most discriminated against groups in the country, neither the Government’s equalities impact assessment nor the Electoral Commission’s evaluation of voter identification pilots make reference to Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. Instead of at best ignoring those communities, and at worst demonising them, will the Government scrap plans to create further barriers to their democratic participation?
2025 UK Border Strategy
Michael Gove Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
Today, the Government will publish the 2025 UK border strategy. As we reach the end of the transition period, we have a unique opportunity to redesign our border for the benefit of the UK. The 2025 UK border strategy sets out how we will do this in partnership across the nations of the UK, the border industry and users of the border.
The 2025 UK border strategy sets out the transformations we will make to the border to create the most effective border in the world, harnessing the power of technology and data to revolutionise how the border operates. Implementing these transformations will make it easier for UK businesses to export and import while improving our ability to keep the UK safe and secure.
The strategy has been developed using the wealth of evidence and insight we received from stakeholders across the UK through the consultation we ran over the summer. The target operating model for the border which the strategy sets out will help businesses understand the longer term ambitions for the UK’s border, and plan and invest accordingly.
The 2025 UK border strategy has today been laid as a Command Paper.
The attachments can be viewed online at: http://www. parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2020-12-17/HCWS668/.
[HCWS668]
Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee
Michael Gove Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The next meeting of the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee will take place on 17 December 2020, by video conference, hosted by the EU.
The meeting will be co-chaired by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and the Vice-President of the European Commission, Maroš Šefčovič.
The agenda will include four items:
1- Introduction and opening remarks from co-chairs:
Stocktake of Specialised Committee activity
Future Specialised Committee meetings.
2 - Update on Withdrawal Agreement Implementation:
Citizens’ rights
Second joint report on residency
Joint Committee decision on triangulation
Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland
Joint Committee decisions foreseen by the protocol
Joint Committee decision on correction of errors and omissions
Unilateral declarations
Dispute settlement—Joint Committee decision on the establishment of a list of arbitrators.
3 - AOB.
4 - Concluding remarks.
The UK delegation will include:
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, the right hon. Michael Gove MP
The Paymaster General, the right hon. Penny Mordaunt MP
Representatives from the Northern Ireland Executive have been invited to form part of the UK delegation.
[HCWS659]
EU Withdrawal Agreement
Michael Gove Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to update the House, and indeed the people of Northern Ireland, on the implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol as part of the withdrawal agreement with the European Union. Throughout 2020, we have worked intensively to ensure that the withdrawal agreement, in particular the Northern Ireland protocol, will be fully operational on 1 January 2021. Our aims, and the proportionate and pragmatic way that we intended to pursue them, were set out in the Command Paper that we published in May, “The UK’s Approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol”. This set out three key commitments that we believed needed to be respected in all scenarios.
We had to ensure that Northern Ireland businesses retained unfettered access to the rest of the UK market. Northern Ireland’s place in the UK’s customs territory had to be protected, and that meant that goods that stayed in the UK were not subject to tariffs. We had to ensure that the important Great Britain-Northern Ireland trade flows, on which lives and livelihoods depend, were not disrupted; we needed to ensure a smooth flow of trade with no need for new physical customs infrastructure.
I am pleased to say that on Monday, the European Commission Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič and I, as co-chairs of the Joint Committee set up to negotiate the implementation of the protocol, came to an agreement in principle on a deal that meets all those commitments and puts the people of Northern Ireland first. I would like to begin by paying tribute to Maroš Šefčovič and his team for their pragmatism, collaborative spirit and determination to get a deal done that would work for both sides. I would also like to thank the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and all the Members of the Northern Ireland Executive for their crucial intervention at significant moments to ensure that the rights of the people of Northern Ireland were protected.
I turn now to the first Government commitment. This deal protects unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses to their most important market. As the Prime Minister underlined, this had to be protected in full, and that meant removing any prospect of export declarations for Northern Ireland goods moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain. That is what our agreement will do. There will be no additional requirements placed on Northern Ireland businesses for these movements, with the very limited and specific exceptions of trade in endangered species and conflict diamonds.
On the second commitment, the deal safeguards Northern Ireland’s place in the UK’s customs territory. As recently as July, the Commission had envisaged a default tariff scenario in which
“all goods brought into Northern Ireland”
were
“considered to be at risk…and are as such subject to the Common Customs Tariff.”
If that had been implemented, that would have raised the prospect of a 58% tariff on a pint of milk going from Scotland to a supermarket in Strabane or a 96% tariff on a bag of sugar going from Liverpool to the shops of Belfast. As we have repeatedly made clear, this could never have been an acceptable outcome.
Instead, I am pleased to say that under the agreement that we have reached, Northern Ireland businesses selling to consumers or using goods in Northern Ireland will be free of all tariffs, whether that is Nissan cars from Sunderland or lamb from Montgomeryshire. Internal UK trade will be protected as we promised, whether we have a free trade agreement with the EU or not.
Thirdly, this deal would keep goods flowing between Great Britain and Northern Ireland in January and provide some necessary additional flexibilities. It protects Northern Ireland’s supermarket supplies. We heard throughout the year that traders needed time to adapt their systems. That is why we have a grace period for supermarkets to update their procedures. Our agreement prevents any disruption at the end of the transition period to the movement of chilled meats. British sausages will continue to make their way to Belfast and Ballymena in the new year, and we have time for reciprocal agreements between the UK and the EU on agrifood, which can be discussed in the months ahead. This deal also protects the flow of medicines and vet medicines into Northern Ireland. That means we will grant industry a period of up to 12 months to adapt to new rules under the protocol, which will avoid any disruption to critical medical supplies.
So those are three commitments entered into, and three commitments that we have upheld. But this agreement goes further still, providing additional flexibility that will enable us to make the most of the opportunities that face us as the transition period ends. As you know, Mr Speaker, this House has been concerned about the risk of so-called reach-back from the state aid provisions that the protocol applies. The concern that many colleagues had was that a company in Great Britain with only a peripheral link to commercial operations in Northern Ireland could be caught inadvertently by the tests within the protocol’s text. That would not have been acceptable, nor was it what the protocol had envisaged. That is why I am pleased that the agreement we have addresses that risk. It means that firms in Great Britain stay outside state aid rules where there is no genuine and direct link to Northern Ireland and no real foreseeable impact on Northern Ireland-EU trade. That is an important step forward in dealing with an issue raised by a number of Members across the House.
This deal also ensures that Northern Ireland will be out of the common agricultural policy, which means that the Northern Ireland Executive have full freedom to set their own agricultural subsidies for Northern Ireland’s farmers. It also means appropriate and flexible arrangements, so that more than £400 million of spending each year is totally exempt from state aid rules. As well as that, the deal ensures that support for fishermen in Northern Ireland will be exempt from EU state aid rules, which means more than £15 million of flexibility for Northern Ireland’s fishermen over the next five years. And, of course, Northern Ireland’s services industries are totally outside the scope of the protocol and its state aid measures.
The agreement also respects the protocol provisions, which were endorsed by Parliament, that allow some EU officials to be present at Northern Ireland ports as UK authorities carry out our own procedures. Let me be clear: there will be no Belfast mini embassy or mission, as some in the EU originally sought, and the EU officials will not have any powers to carry out checks themselves. There will instead be sensible, practical arrangements, with co-operation and reciprocal data sharing, so that both sides can have confidence in these unique arrangements. We also want to leave no doubt about our ongoing commitment to peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland. My right hon. Friend the Northern Ireland Secretary will set out in the coming days further measures of financial support to help businesses and communities to prosper and thrive from the end of the year and beyond.
We have been able to deliver a package which now means that the protocol can be implemented in a pragmatic and proportionate way. It takes account of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement in all its dimensions, and it protects the interests of both the EU single market and, more importantly, the territorial and constitutional integrity of the whole United Kingdom. This agreement will be approved officially at a Joint Committee meeting in the coming days. Of course, the agreement we have reached also enables the Government to withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill and avoids the need for any additional provisions in the Taxation (Post-transition Period) Bill. Having put beyond doubt the primacy of the sovereignty of this place as we leave the EU, we rest safe in the knowledge that such provisions are no longer required.
We know that we now need to get on and give further clarity to business as to the specifics of what this deal means for them and how it will work in practice, and we will do that through the publication of further guidance. That will sit alongside the ongoing intensive work that we will take forward to implement the protocol. Above all, we will always work with the interests of the people and businesses of Northern Ireland in mind, as this agreement and the important flexibilities it will provide reflects. We must all remember that, if the protocol is to work, it must work for the whole community in Northern Ireland. Whether it is to be maintained in the future, as the protocol itself sets out, is for the people of Northern Ireland to decide through the democratic consent mechanism that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister negotiated. On that critical note of the primacy of democracy, I commend this statement to the House.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for advance sight of the statement. We welcome it and are pleased that a decision has been reached on the Northern Ireland protocol. The Good Friday agreement is a source of immense pride on this side of the House, given the role that Tony Blair’s Labour Government played in building on the work of Sir John Major in achieving it. Neither of those Governments would play games with the peace process, and nor would a Government led by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer). Game playing, with threats to break international law, has consequences, and it is also a dangerous distraction.
Northern Ireland’s Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs says that the border infrastructure simply will not be ready in time. Manufacturing NI says that just 9% of businesses in Northern Ireland are ready for the end of the transition period. The systems needed to make trade flow, such as the trader support service, reportedly will not even be going live until 21 December—eight working days before the end of the transition period. This really does give new meaning to “the night before Christmas”.
Last December, the Prime Minister said:
“We’re a UK government, why would we put checks on goods going from NI to GB or GB to NI? It doesn't make sense.”
With that in mind, will the Minister explain why today’s documents confirm that on trade from GB to NI there will indeed be a range of checks? The trusted trader scheme will be removed after three and a half years and reviewed then, with further uncertainty at that point.
The exemption on agrifood checks is available for only three months, so will the Minister tell us what guarantees there are on prices and availability of fresh food supplies in Northern Ireland after 1 April? Will custom checks be required just three months into 2021? All that raises the question: did the Prime Minister actually know what he had signed up to last year, and then give false assurances to the House, or did he simply not care? This is a disgraceful way to treat businesses in good times, never mind in the middle of a pandemic.
On the trade deal needed for Northern Ireland, and for Great Britain too, we are told that the level playing field remains an outstanding area of disagreement, yet the Prime Minister’s political declaration, which he signed with the EU, spoke of a future relationship with
“open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field.”
Some Conservative MPs are agitated by the idea of a floor on workers’ rights. Indeed, no fewer than three Cabinet Ministers jointly wrote a book that said that British workers are
“among the worst idlers in the world.”
We on this side of the House do not agree with that statement. Neither do the people of our country, who want more security at work, not less. There are some siren voices among those on the Government Benches, who appear to view any agreement with the EU as a betrayal. The Minister should know that the true betrayal would be job losses, border chaos and price rises in our shops.
The Minister referred to cars from Nissan and lamb exports from Wales, and that they will be tariff-free in Northern Ireland, but as he knows, they need to be tariff-free with the EU too. We on this side of the House want the negotiations to succeed. We want the Government to keep their promises and come back with the oven-ready deal that we were promised at the general election less than a year ago. Sometimes it feels as though we on this side of the House want the Government to succeed and bring back this deal more than those on the Government’s own Back Benches do.
Deal or no deal, there are preparations that still need to be made for Northern Ireland, and for Great Britain too. I want to ask again about customs agents, because just minutes ago, the Prime Minister did not seem to have any answers on how many there are. Earlier in the year, the Minister agreed with industry estimates of 50,000 customs agents needed. Since then, he has told the BBC that the number had increased fourfold, but he omitted to tell us what the figure was. Let us give him another chance: how many customs agents are in place and are we ready for the end of the transition period?
It is not just me asking these questions. Richard Burnett, chief executive of the Road Haulage Association, says:
“The big issue that we face is that there are insufficient customs agents”
and that without them and the correct paperwork,
“we are likely to see vehicles being turned around… That is going to create significant chaos and significant queues.”
On lorry parks, will the Minister tell us how many inland border facilities are ready and will they ensure the free flow of lorries and vehicles from 1 January? Can he guarantee the House that there will be no disruption to medical or food supplies from 1 January?
Ours is a great country, and Labour wants to see a good life for all our people, but, as great as our country is, it cannot afford to be afflicted by Government incompetence. Every price rise, every traffic jam, every lost contract and every redundancy caused by this Government’s mistakes and poor planning holds our great country back. Next year must be a year of rebuilding and recovering from covid-19, not dealing with the fallout of reckless decision making, tariffs or incompetence. So this is decision time for this Government, and it is time to get the deal.
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for the warm welcome that she gave to this agreement, and I also thank her for the kind words she offered Sir John Major: the process of concluding the Good Friday agreement, as she quite rightly reminds us, was a signal achievement of Tony Blair’s Government but was also achieved as a result of hard work across this House. And of course there has been since the Good Friday agreement was concluded 22 years of progress in Northern Ireland, and it is important that we seek to underpin and secure that.
The hon. Lady asked about border infrastructure. Let me emphasise that this border infrastructure is there to ensure that sanitary and phytosanitary checks can be made. As she and the House know, it is already the case that the island of Ireland is a single epidemiological zone, and therefore when live animals move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland there are physical checks. There will be border facilities in order to ensure that these limited and proportionate SPS checks can be carried out at the port of Foyle, Warrenpoint, Belfast and Larne, and we have reassured the Commission, and indeed others, about the speed and effectiveness with which the necessary limited infrastructure will be in place.
The hon. Lady also asked about the trader support service, which is there to help Northern Ireland businesses. I am pleased that we spend over £200 million in order to support Northern Ireland businesses, and I think it is the case that more than 10,000 businesses are now signed up to the trader support service in order to ensure that they will incur no costs as a result of the protocol.
The hon. Lady also asked about the future of the trusted trader scheme, which, as she rightly pointed out, guarantees that goods being sold in Northern Ireland and businesses operating in Northern Ireland will face no tariffs. It is the case that we will have an opportunity to review how that scheme operates, but it will only need to be reviewed if there is a demonstrable diversion or illegal activity, and in those circumstances there is an obligation on both parties to seek alternative arrangements. I should stress again that no additional customs checks will face goods going from Northern Ireland to Great Britain.
The hon. Lady asked about customs agent capacity overall. It is the case that £84 million has been made available in order to increase capacity, and the latest survey by HMRC shows that there has been a fourfold increase in capacity. Of course, one of the reasons why we are phasing in import controls over six months next year is to ensure that the sector can increase even further, but that fourfold increase in capacity gives us the confidence we need that all the staff will be there.
The hon. Lady mentioned Richard Burnett of the Road Haulage Association. He, along with Dave Wells of Logistics UK and other figures in the haulage and logistics industry, has played an invaluable role in making sure that the Government do everything necessary to prepare, but I would never shirk from saying that more needs to be done.
The hon. Lady asked about the level playing field and workers’ rights. We have a proud tradition of upholding workers’ rights and ensuring that we have social and environmental protections in this country that are higher than in many other European countries. That will not change—that is a source of pride—but one thing we cannot accept in the course of the level playing field negotiations is the demand from some in the EU that if the EU adopts new laws, we would automatically have to follow those laws or face penalties. We are not afraid to say that our standards are high and we will uphold them, but we are also not afraid to say that the people of this country voted to take back control, and that is what this Government will do.
Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)
The implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol has become my right hon. Friend’s equivalent of the Schleswig-Holstein question, given the variety of interpretations that surround it, but fundamentally does what my right hon. Friend agreed yesterday make it more or less likely that a free trade agreement with the European Union that, crucially, ensures United Kingdom sovereignty in its entirety can be secured?
Michael Gove
I thank the Chairman of the Select Committee on Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs for his question. I think it was Palmerston who said that there were only three people who knew the answer to the Schleswig-Holstein question: one was dead, another was mad, and he himself had forgotten what the answer was. But on the Northern Ireland protocol, there are all sorts of hon. and right hon. Members in this House who have played a part in making sure that we can indeed secure Northern Ireland’s constitutional future within the UK and ensure that we leave the European Union as one country, whole and entire.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for his statement. It is one of these statements that I suppose is good news until we actually see the scale of the Brexit horrors that are now just in front of us. We are now at the stage of this chaotic Brexit where we have a sort of Schrödinger’s deal—one that is sort of there but also not.
I do not know whether the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has come to the House today looking for some sort of “congratulations and well done” for all this. I suppose it is “well done” for taking us all to the very brink with the very worst of negotiation statecraft on what was supposed to be the easiest deal in the world, “well done” for the emerging chaos at our ports and businesses taking flight, or maybe even “well done” for in a few weeks denying our young people the right to live, work and love freely across a continent. Tonight, we are going to have the last supper—but we know it is the British people who will be crucified.
Yes, what Northern Ireland has got is great for it. “Best of both worlds” is a phrase that we in Scotland are pretty much familiar with; it is what we were promised in 2014. Now, in 2020, we are faced with the worst of all worlds. We would give our right arm for access to the EU single market and unfettered access across the rest of the UK market, so can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster explain to the Scottish people exactly why Scotland is the only part of the United Kingdom that will not get any part of what it voted for on Brexit?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman once again for his questions; they are masterpieces of metaphorical concatenation. He managed to bring in both Schrödinger’s cat and the Easter and Passiontide narrative before he eventually got to his question. It was a masterpiece, as I say, of lyrical concision, which we would expect from Runrig’s principal star.
On the basic question, it is the case—the hon. Gentleman recognises, as I recognise—that Northern Ireland has a unique position within the United Kingdom as a result of having a land border with the European Union, which no other part of the United Kingdom does, and that requires specific arrangements. But whatever those specific arrangements, it is the case that Northern Ireland, by the will of its people, remains part of the United Kingdom. Long may it remain so.
Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)
I very much agree with what the Prime Minister said today at Prime Minister’s questions. Does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster also agree? And is there anything in his statement that would be allowed to undermine the unfettered sovereignty of the United Kingdom as asserted by successive democratic votes and the referendum, and successive Acts of Parliament, including sections 30 and 38 of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020?
Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster also confirm today that he will appear before the European Scrutiny Committee? As he knows, he has declined to do so on at least three occasions, most recently on 26 November. We put this to him in writing but so far he has not been able to come. Will he please commit right now, today, to coming before the Committee as soon as possible?
Michael Gove
On the first point, my hon. Friend is absolutely right: section 38 of the Act that gave effect to the withdrawal agreement upheld the sovereignty of this place, and there is nothing in what we have concluded that in any way diverges from that. On the second question, I am very sorry that I have played hard to get, but I will make sure that we can have a date before Christmas when the two of us can meet in suitably covid-compliant surroundings.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s statement, because it shows what can be achieved with political commitment, and I do hope that we will see more of that later today. However, he seems to have brought back not a permanent arrangement but a series of grace periods, and I want to ask him about that.
For example, it has been reported that food products coming from GB into Northern Ireland will be exempt from export health certificates for a period of at least three months, and that chilled meats—the right hon. Gentleman referred to sausages—will be allowed for a period of time, pending a review, after which they might be prevented any more from moving from GB to Northern Ireland. What is going to happen after those dates? How exactly are businesses going to be able to prepare when they have not yet seen the detailed arrangements, because the Joint Committee is not going to meet for a couple of days, and when those details may well change yet again in a few months’ time?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his questions—and indeed for the work of his Future Relationship with the European Union Committee, which has helped us as we have sought to resolve these issues—and his welcome is very welcome. On the detailed points he makes, we have been talking to traders, supermarkets in particular, to make sure that they are ready for any export health certificate requirements. We know that some supermarkets are already ready. One or two others need time in order to get ready, and they requested a grace period. Originally, those in the Commission argued that that would be impossible or, if it did exist, that it could only be a matter of weeks. We have managed to secure three months, which is sufficient time, we understand, to ensure that supermarkets are ready. On the chilled meat provision, it is the case that we have secured a six-month period during which there will be absolutely no change. Again, it was the case that there were some in the EU who argued that that should be a strictly non-renewable provision. We secured an approach that meant we could keep under review how things were operating in order to ensure that we provided people in Northern Ireland with access to the food they currently enjoy, without any disruption to the integrated supply chains that supermarkets have and which they will adjust.
Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con)
Many of the life science and other businesses of South Cambridgeshire export to Northern Ireland. Can my right hon. Friend reassure them that they will not face any new bureaucratic obstacles or tariffs as they sell their goods and services there?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is a brilliant advocate for the life science sector, and I know that it provides jobs and investment in Cambridgeshire and beyond. It is also the case that there is a thriving life science and pharmaceuticals sector in Northern Ireland, and it will be the case that there are no impediments to the continued successful integration of that work.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
The right hon. Gentleman and I have known each other for many years, and while we might have differed on Brexit, there is another issue—and it is Scotland—on which we are very much in agreement. Can the right hon. Gentleman assure us today that every effort will be made to ensure that this agreement, good as it is for Northern Ireland, is not used to undermine Scotland’s position within the Union, and does he consider that my constituents in Edinburgh West and elsewhere might benefit from the same sort of phasing-in agreement as has been agreed for Northern Ireland?
Michael Gove
I have known the hon. Lady, as she says, for a few years—she is a brilliant MP and she is absolutely right. The shadow Minister said that people should not play politics with the Good Friday agreement, and I do not think they should. I think it is important to recognise that Northern Ireland is in a unique position within the UK, and I think the majority of people in Scotland and across the UK recognise that, but it is also important—the hon. Lady is absolutely right—that in our arrangements with the EU, we take specific account of the needs that Scotland has. On everything from the provision of seasonal agricultural workers to making sure that we can expedite fish and shellfish from the north-east to the EU, and indeed the principled position that my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is taking on whisky exports, it is absolutely important that we recognise that Scotland has distinct needs and that working with the Scottish Government and Scottish MPs, like herself, we can advance Scotland’s interests.
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the EU’s request for a mini embassy in Northern Ireland was inflammatory for communities in Northern Ireland and is not required to allow the EU to supervise processes carried out by UK authorities?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There were some in the EU who wanted to mount a sort of land grab, as it were, and to have a part of Northern Ireland that was forever Brussels. But what we have agreed is a pragmatic approach, which means that the EU, quite rightly, can have people in Northern Ireland so that it can be assured that the UK officials who are carrying out our own sovereign procedures are doing so in a way in which everyone can have confidence. I want again to place on record my thanks to Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič for making sure that it was pragmatic arrangements, rather than symbolism, that won through.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
I know that the right hon. Gentleman is as passionate as I am about the Union. Article 6 of the Act of Union states very clearly there should be no barrier to trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as is now. Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol also makes it clear that if
“this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist…the United Kingdom”
Government
“may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures.”
Safeguarding the Union is not a three-month, six-month or three-year project; it is an enduring commitment. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster now give a commitment that, if necessary, the Government will introduce safeguard measures to ensure unfettered access in both directions for trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
Michael Gove
The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point in drawing attention to a very important provision within the Northern Ireland protocol. The Government came under criticism from some for having provisions in the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill that upheld the sovereignty of this place in order to uphold the constitutional and territorial integrity of the UK. We no longer need to use those provisions, because of the agreement we have reached, but he is absolutely right. Of course, that provision remains, but I hope it will be the case that through patient and pragmatic discussion we can resolve any future issues in the way that we have resolved existing issues.
Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on reaching his agreement in principle, which shows that Britain is willing to make constructive compromises. As it now stands, is there any part of the withdrawal agreement that requires direct application of EU law to any part of the UK?
Michael Gove
Yes, it is the case that as a result of some of the provisions in the Northern Ireland protocol, there will be a requirement on some businesses in Northern Ireland specifically to follow the acquis. That is one of the ways in which we can ensure that there is no need for border infrastructure between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) [V]
We welcome yesterday’s agreement. We want for Northern Ireland just what we want for Wales: unfettered access to our most important markets with the rest of the UK and with the EU. However, the fundamentals of trade, particularly between Wales and Northern Ireland and indeed the Republic of Ireland, remain uncertain. Hauliers fear serious disruption on the Holyhead to Dublin route, with the Welsh Government’s plans, agreed on Monday, for contraflows and parking lots being too little, too late. What steps has the right hon. Gentleman taken to lessen this potential disruption?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. I know that because of the geographical proximity of his constituency to Ynys Môn—to the island of Anglesey—he has a particular concern. However, we have been working well with the Welsh Government—I particularly thank their Counsel General, Jeremy Miles—to make sure that we will have infrastructure in Holyhead that can ensure that the second busiest roll-on roll-off port in the UK continues to prosper.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
May I just point out to my right hon. Friend that whatever he agreed in the Joint Committee yesterday remains subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice under the disputes procedure? Moreover, whatever he agreed yesterday was agreed only because we had the clauses in the UKIM Bill that were threatening to block the ECJ’s jurisdiction. Does he agree that it is very important that we maintain the position that this House can at any time put blocks in front of the ECJ while this withdrawal agreement remains in force?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is right: this House is sovereign. This is as a result of bringing forward the UKIM Bill. I understand some of the unease and controversy that it generated, but he is absolutely right that following on from that we were able to make progress. We are now no longer in a position where we need to bring forward those clauses, but of course it is the sovereign right of this Parliament to legislate as it thinks fit.
Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP)
We welcome details that businesses have sought anxiously all year, and of course we keenly anticipate a wider trade deal that might finally allow us to continue to enjoy the conditions that we currently enjoy. How does he propose to ensure continuity of supply for squeezed Northern Ireland households so that they can have choice and affordability after mitigations on export health certificates expire in six months?
Michael Gove
We have been working with supermarkets and other traders to ensure that their supply lines and the provision of all the goods that consumers in Northern Ireland currently enjoy, which I hope in future will be enhanced, can remain. The Trader Support Service is there, alongside other support that we are giving to businesses in Northern Ireland and indeed across the UK, to make sure that a fully integrated part of the UK internal market enjoys the same access to the same goods as the rest of us.
Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)
Can my right hon. Friend assure me and all my constituents that, should we strike a trade agreement with the EU, we will not compromise in any way on our fishing waters, our borders and our laws, and, most importantly, that any governance arrangements that may flow from any trade agreement are completely consistent with those of a fully sovereign country?
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)
I wish we were in a different place, where we did not need the protocol, but I recognise the progress that has been made through the provisional agreement. Does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster recognise that there is a range of unfinished business in relation to protecting the Northern Ireland economy, including on issues such as: transit from Great Britain via the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland; access to EU free trade agreements, particularly for our agrifood and dairy sectors; data adequacy and the protection of the service sector on an all-Ireland basis?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for those points. He is right that there is important work still to be done. As I think he noted, it is the case that the services sector in Northern Ireland is totally exempt from any state aid provisions. However, it is also the case that Northern Ireland has benefited from commercial links with the Irish Republic, as well as its strong position within the UK internal market. More work is required to strengthen Northern Ireland’s formidable competitive position.
Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con)
The good people of my Workington constituency stand squarely behind my right hon. Friend and Lord Frost in the negotiations. Will he confirm that, with the agreement on the protocol in place, the UK will leave the transition period at the end of this month regardless of whether we reach an agreement with the EU?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Whatever happens—and we do hope that we get a free trade agreement—we will leave the customs union and the single market on 31 December.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) [V]
The Secretary of State will be—I hope—aware that many of us will feel very sad that his career will end in failure if we do not get an agreement with the European Union today or very soon. The Committee on the Future Relationship with the European Union, of which I am a member, recently listened to leaders from the Northern Ireland business, manufacturing and farming communities saying that they do not think that everything is fully operational. They do not think anything is oven-ready. They think that if anything were in the oven, it would be pretty thin pickings. Will he please, please, at this late stage, make every effort to make sure we get a deal, rather than leave without a deal?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his words. We will do everything we possibly can to get a deal, but it cannot be a deal at any price. As for his point about my career ending in failure, my career has, I am afraid, been marked by failure consistently in so many ways. Often in politics I am reminded of the words of Winston Churchill, who said that success means going from failure to failure with undiminished enthusiasm. That is what I hope to do.
Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and careers advice. I warmly welcome the news of this significant progress, but can he reassure the House that while the Government have said they will withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, the rest of the Bill will remain in place, so we can ensure that goods can move seamlessly across the UK, benefiting businesses and consumers across all four nations?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The United Kingdom Internal Market Bill is a critical piece of legislation which safeguards the rights of producers and consumers across the UK. The clauses she mentions excited controversy, but I think they were necessary. In any case, that controversy can now pass because they are being withdrawn. I hope the Bill will pass as well.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The Government’s “Get Ready for Brexit” campaign looks lovely, but it does not answer the question: get ready for what? Deal? No deal? What deal? Businesses have a pandemic to deal with. Will the right hon. Gentleman admit that the combination of Brexit shambles with the absence of proper support for small businesses facing covid-19 measures, and the total exclusion from support of so many businesses, means that the Government are totally letting down small businesses in the north-east and across the country?
Michael Gove
It will probably not surprise the hon. Lady to learn that I do not agree with her. When it comes to Brexit transition, we know that because we are leaving the single market and the customs union, and whether or not we secure a free trade agreement, much of what most businesses need to do is broadly the same, and of course the Government stand ready to help businesses to adjust.
The fate and the future of businesses in the north-east are very dear to me, having lived and worked in Newcastle in the past. It is striking how many of those who work for businesses in the north-east voted Conservative just 12 months ago, which is why Conservative MPs in Blyth Valley, in Bishop Auckland, in Redcar and across the north-east are standing up—[Interruption.] I will mention more constituencies that the Conservatives won if the hon. Lady likes: North West Durham, with Consett, is now a Conservative constituency; Sedgefield, with Spennymoor, is now a Conservative constituency—[Interruption.] Anyway, as the hon. Lady and the House know, the north-east is Tory, and that is because we stand up for workers.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
I remind Opposition Members that we all want a deal. There is no one on this side who does not want a deal, but it must be a fair deal and one that respects the UK’s integrity. On that point, my right hon. Friend has said on many occasions that we must leave together. In answering questions from my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) and my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin), he said—unless I am incorrect—that EU law will apply in Northern Ireland, as will the European Court of Justice. We have gone to all this effort to be free of those structures. Can he say whether I have got it wrong or he has got it wrong—one or the other?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend never gets it wrong, and he is right. It is there in the withdrawal agreement and in the protocol that we accept the acquis in a specific number of areas in Northern Ireland. That is part of the withdrawal agreement, which was signed before the general election, and which many, though not all, Members of this House supported. It was also in the Conservative manifesto. Of course there were understandable concerns that the way in which the protocol applied would mean that we would face tariffs and other restrictions. The agreement that we have concluded means that that will not be the case. The UK will leave and Northern Ireland will be capable of benefiting from trade deals that we do as a result of Brexit; it will also be outside the common agricultural policy and it will benefit from the Australian-style points-based immigration system that applies across the UK.
Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)
While the Minister is telling Northern Ireland that it can have the best of both worlds, he is using the same reasoning to tell Scotland, “Shut up and get back in your box,” all the while claiming that any negative impacts are not Brexit-related. Perhaps he has now become the Government’s very own Bart Simpson, causing chaos in presenting their agenda regardless of cost while claiming, “I didn’t do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can’t prove anything.”
Michael Gove
The Simpsons character I most remembered was Groundskeeper Willie, because he is an Aberdonian. [Interruption.] I am not sure what his position is on independence, but as jannies go, he is certainly one of the best. To the hon. Gentleman’s point, Scotland does have the best of both worlds. It has a devolved Administration in Holyrood and representation by great MPs such as himself here in Westminster.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con) [V]
I commend my right hon. Friend for the role he has played and very much welcome this agreement. It is good news that the EU has compromised; its previous position on everything from unlimited checks to export declarations could have choked trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Given that this agreement will add an impetus to the wider trade talks, will he commend the Prime Minister for not making last-minute compromises just to get a trade deal over the line? The Prime Minister has the support of the Conservative party, should he decide to walk away and trade on Australia and Canada terms. After all, a trade deal is for keeps, not just for Christmas.
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The point he makes, and the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) made earlier, reinforce the fact that the Conservative party is united behind the Prime Minister. It is willing him to get a deal, but it is also ready to accept that if we cannot get the deal we want, we will not accept a deal at any price. That has to be the right way forward.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Some 95% of Cumbrian farm exports are to the single market, so our farmers too need unfettered access to that market. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said at the weekend that British farmers would not find tariffs with the EU to be “manageable”. In addition, in three weeks’ time, deal or no deal, English farmers will see the beginning of huge, uncompensated cuts to their income. We risk the loss of hundreds of family farms in the Lakes, the Dales and elsewhere. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that a country that cannot feed itself has no sovereignty?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes several very important points. The first is that we absolutely need to support upland farmers, not just in his beautiful constituency and Cumbria, but across the United Kingdom. It is the case that sustainable livestock farming is the only way in which we can make sure that we have agriculture in the future in upland and grassland areas such as the one that he represents. The second thing is that, yes, there is a prospect of tariffs if we do not secure a free trade agreement, which is why we need to have support systems in place for those. The third point is that the new system of support that we are giving to farmers combines support not just for small farmers, but for the climate change and environmental goals that we both share. It is important that we reform the common agricultural policy in that way, but I look forward to continuing to work with him, because I know that his commitment to rural England and our farmers is resolute.
Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con) [V]
I welcome the principle that exit summary declarations for goods from Northern Ireland to the rest of UK will not be required, but while it is reasonable for EU authorities to supervise the application of the protocol to Northern Ireland, can my right hon. Friend assure me that all processes in UK sovereign territory will be carried out by UK authorities?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is about UK authorities carrying out our procedures in our territory under our laws.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
This was the never-ending story, but it seems a bit like it is turning into a never-ending nightmare for businesses, which have been told not of a settled situation, but that the can is going to be kicked down the road for three to six months. Is it not time to be honest with the British people and say, “This will never end. Negotiations will continue forever,” because this Government are just not capable of securing decent deals that are settled wills with the European Union?
Michael Gove
I absolutely take the hon. Gentleman’s point, but it is the case that in the future we will be negotiating new free trade deals, as it happens, with other countries outside the European Union that we could not have negotiated inside the EU. These negotiations are led by my brilliant colleague, the President of the Board of Trade. She has secured deals—for example, with Japan—that are even better than that we had in the EU, so negotiating going on is what Trade Secretaries do, and we are lucky to have the best in the world.
Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement, in which he spoke of the importance of providing clarity for business. Will he confirm that clarity will include ensuring that manufacturers from across the UK will continue to be able to trade freely with a market of 500 million consumers who are on our doorstep?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes an important point. He has been a consistently strong and coherent voice for manufacturing, not just in his native west midlands, but across the United Kingdom. One of the things that we want to secure is a free trade agreement that ensures that our manufacturing and advanced manufacturing sector can continue to sell into a market on our doorstep.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I call Emma Lewell-Buck. Not here.
Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)
I, too, welcome this package and what it means for business, peace and our Union. Dare I say that news of tariff-free lamb comes close to being glad tidings for the shepherds on the hillsides above Aberconwy this Christmas time. Lest we get lost in that kind of detail, will my right hon. Friend confirm that there is nothing in this agreement that compromises the integrity of either our sovereignty or the Union?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This House remains sovereign and it is the case that the territorial and political integrity of the United Kingdom remains robust.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
The Democratic Unionist party opposed the protocol and warned about all the problems that the Minister is now having to address. We welcome the changes that have been made today. Nevertheless, the real test will be how these measures work on the ground, rather than the spin that we get in this House. As far as EU officials are concerned, is it not a fact that although they will not carry out the searches and investigations, they will be able to direct UK officials on the ground, and, under article 5 of the protocol, UK officials will have to carry out their demands? The Irish Government are now spinning that the six-month period is simply to allow supermarkets in Northern Ireland to source their products from the Irish Republic. Does the Minister believe that we have gained back sovereignty if we are allowing EU officials to direct our officials and other Governments to tell us where we can get our food from?
Michael Gove
As the right hon. Gentleman quite rightly points out, there were a number of very principled opponents of the whole idea of the protocol itself. He and his colleagues in his party laid out some of their concerns in a very cogent fashion. In the end, the House of Commons decided that the protocol, as part of the withdrawal agreement, was the right way to proceed, but, as he quite rightly points out, it was important that a number of difficult questions were addressed. He is also absolutely right that the proof will be in the implementation on the ground.
Let me turn to the two specific areas that the right hon. Gentleman mentions. It is the case that the limited number of EU officials—I think it is probably no more than two dozen at most—who will come into Northern Ireland will be working alongside UK officials. The UK officials will be in the lead there, but we want to provide the EU with assurance. On the matter of where goods are sourced from, I cannot think of any better place for goods in Northern Ireland supermarkets to be sourced from than Northern Ireland itself. Wonderful though produce in the Republic of Ireland is, I do not think it is the case that there is any better producer—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) asks about bananas. I think he is referring, of course, to SNP policy on trade. But when it comes to pork products, there is nothing better than an Ulster fry.
Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con)
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your kindness—and I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office for his kindness—towards my many children, who have been here on many occasions. My nine-year-old, Atticus, said to me when he got sight of the question that I was going to ask today, “But, dad, the answer to that question is so obvious!” I am going to ask it anyway. Despite our desire for a good trade deal with the European Union, does my right hon. Friend agree that we must never again cede control of our borders or coastal waters to a foreign power?
Michael Gove
Well, I knew that my hon. Friend was a great dad, because his son absolutely hits the nail on the head in saying that the answer to that question is obvious. No, we absolutely should not cede that control. Very good question; the answer is clear. Excellent son; brilliant dad.
Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab) [V]
The vehicle industry has consistently warned that a no-deal Brexit risks the future of UK plants and skilled, unionised jobs. Without a deal, Luton-made Vauxhall vans could face tariffs of 22%. Coupled with covid, cuts to our council and no support for our aviation industry, for Luton no deal would make this a job-killing Government. With just 22 days to go before the end of the transition period, can the Minister guarantee that there will be no tariffs on vans and cars made in this country?
Michael Gove
The automobile sector is important not just in Luton, where there are so many skilled people producing fantastic products, but across the UK. Of course, if we secure a free trade agreement, it will be a zero-tariffs, zero-quota agreement. If we do not secure that agreement, there will be tariffs, but there will also be tariffs on automobiles coming into the UK, and that will have an impact on industry in the EU.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
We are only halfway through the call list. It would be best if I can manage to get everybody who wants to ask a question on this very important subject in to ask such a question.
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
I welcome the agreement and thank my right hon. Friend and his civil service team for getting us to this stage, but may I urge him to spend some time with the Protestant Unionist loyalist community, who have retained concerns about the detail? I suggest that Mikala’s Kitchen on the Shankill Road is the best place for that engagement. Could he also now spend some time with the nationalist community, unaligned voters and passionate supporters of the European Union in Northern Ireland to demonstrate to them that the practical approach that he and the EU have taken on the protocol can now be replicated on issues such as climate change, health, jobs and the future of all people across the island of Ireland?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: there is more work to do. I always enjoy any opportunity to be in Northern Ireland with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. My right hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) was an outstanding Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, and he makes a series of very important points that I take completely to heart.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
Honda has just announced that it has had to pause production because of problems with getting components through ports. Does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster suggest that failing to get those parts is entirely down to Honda, or do the Government share some of the blame?
Michael Gove
No, I do not think that it is Honda; I think that there is a global problem with container traffic. That point has been well made by those who are leading our major ports.
James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)
Is the recent removal of clauses from the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill a sweetener for the European Union or an indicator that early white smoke might be forthcoming on a wider trade deal?
Michael Gove
We made that decision as a Government because we believed that we had satisfied all our aims in the discussions on the protocol. It was a sovereign decision, but I hope that it will help to ensure that we get a free trade agreement.
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
I welcome the withdrawal of clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, but has the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster any plans to carry out an assessment of the impact of the threats to breach a recently signed treaty on the United Kingdom’s international standing and its ability to enter future agreements, given that it is now known across the world that the United Kingdom is prepared to break its word to get its way?
Michael Gove
The hon. and learned Lady will know that since we introduced those clauses into the Bill, we have succeeded in signing any number of trade agreements with other countries. That is because the reputation of the UK continues to stand high.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]
My right hon. Friend has played a blinder, but given that the EU withdrawal means that British Government procurement will no longer be subject to Official Journal of the European Union rules, what concrete steps will he take to ensure that Northern Ireland companies and businesses across Great Britain that wish to procure contracts with Government can do so only if they employ a significant number of apprentices?
Michael Gove
The Chairman of the Select Committee on Education makes a very important point. My noble Friend Lord Agnew will shortly bring forward a paper on procurement reform, which will show exactly how we can achieve the ambition for apprenticeships that my right hon. Friend has so consistently and brilliantly put forward.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
May I follow on from the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) about the situation with Honda? Given that chaos at ports is already occurring before the end of the transition period—I understand that that is because people are stockpiling because they are so worried about what will happen next year—can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confidently say that the perfect storm of Christmas, Brexit stockpiling, covid restrictions and the new customs regime will not lead to significant disruption come January?
Michael Gove
It is a very fair point that a number of things are coming together this Christmas, and it is helpful that the hon. Lady contextualises the fact that the situation with containers is a result of many factors. We are doing everything we can to ensure that trade continues to flow freely, but as she quite rightly points out, there are a number of factors with which all Governments are having to grapple.
Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con)
With clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill now withdrawn, can my right hon. Friend reassure the House that seamless trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK will continue, despite any suggestion from the European Union to interpret the withdrawal agreement in such a way as to prevent our internal market, which has functioned for centuries?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I should stress that there were some in the EU who did have precisely that agenda, but Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič has done a great job of making sure that this is an arrangement that works for everyone. The superb ceramic products made in my hon. Friend’s constituency will continue to flow on to tables in Belfast, Ballymena, Strabane and Derry/Londonderry.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
Does the Minister regret the fact that the Government abolished the expert trade advisory groups, which were set up to advise the Government on customs and continuity in trade, and were disbanded in July because some of the members refused to sign non-disclosure agreements? Would it not have made more sense to keep the trade advisory groups going to help to avoid the disruption we have been hearing about at the ports and the delays in essential food and manufacturing parts that are being widely reported today?
Michael Gove
Well, that is all news to me, but maybe the hon. Gentleman has a point—I do not know.
Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]
I commend my right hon. Friend, and also the vice-president, for reaching an amicable and sensible agreement. I also wish the Prime Minister well, and hope that neither of the two diners tonight gets indigestion and that they achieve an acceptable deal for both the EU and, in particular, our own country.
At the end of last month, Jim Harra told the Public Accounts Committee that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is concentrating on seven key IT systems that need to be changed or built from new to enable GB-EU trade to continue and to enable us to comply, particularly, with the Northern Ireland protocol. Will my right hon. Friend update me on those systems? Will they be completed before the end of the transition period?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. There are a number of systems: the trader support Service, or TSS; the movement assistance scheme, or MAS; the goods vehicle management scheme, or GVMS; and CDS, or the customs declaration service, which is the new replacement for CHIEF—customs handling of import and export freight—in HMRC. That is quite a lot of acronyms. A lot of work has gone into making sure that we will be ready. Some of it is close to the wire, but I am confident that everything will be in place.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)
From 1 January onwards, if he was a business owner primarily exporting to the UK, would the right hon. Gentleman prefer to be located in Northern Ireland or Wales?
Michael Gove
That is the most difficult question I have ever faced in this House, because I love Northern Ireland and I love Wales as well, and there are all sorts of advantages to being located in either jurisdiction. I suspect that my choice would be made even more difficult if I had to choose between, say, Carmarthenshire and North Antrim—two uniquely beautiful parts of the United Kingdom. It is Sophie’s choice, in business terms, because wherever you are located in the United Kingdom, you benefit from having a strong Government determined to ensure that this country can take advantage of global opportunities.
Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)
Will the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice continue to prevail in relation to the Northern Ireland protocol, and if that is the case, how is that state of affairs compatible with the restoration of United Kingdom sovereignty?
Michael Gove
In the withdrawal agreement that we concluded before the last election and which this House voted on—not every Member, of course, supported it, but a majority did—we made it clear that within the Northern Ireland protocol there would be a limited portion of the acquis relating to goods in the single market that would apply in Northern Ireland. It was the aim of this House and the aim of this Government to ensure that we could reach a satisfactory arrangement on the protocol in line with the principles that we laid out in the Command Paper, and that is what we have done. That upholds the territorial integrity of the United Kingdom and the ability of every citizen of the UK to benefit from all the opportunities that Brexit provides.
Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)
Will the Minister comment on the UK Government’s commitment to the Peace Plus programme, which, as he will know, has played such an important role in underpinning peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland?
Michael Gove
We are totally committed, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will be saying more about that in the coming days.
Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)
Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that in tonight’s negotiations, and in the ongoing negotiations with the EU, the Prime Minister and his team will remember just how important securing a deal will be to Cumbrian farmers, and indeed farmers across the four nations?
Michael Gove
Absolutely. For Cumbrian farmers, and also for manufacturers in Barrow, we will be doing everything possible to get the best possible set of arrangements.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The temporary food waiver for trusted traders is very much to be welcomed and my right hon. Friend is to be congratulated on securing it, but may I press him a little on the detail of what will then follow, because businesses need certainty? What he has had to say will of course be welcome to the big supermarkets, but smaller operators, small shops and street traders, on whom the great Ulster fry depends so much, will still be left in a level of uncertainty, particularly if they are not signed up to the trusted trader scheme. Will he say to what extent the trusted trader scheme will extend to small operators of that sort?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend, who was an outstanding Northern Ireland Minister, is absolutely right. Once the Joint Committee concludes, we will go into more detail on exactly how we can safeguard the interests of small and medium-sized enterprises as well. We will notify the Commission of those businesses that need to take advantage of the grace period that we have got.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
RTÉ reports on the derogation for sausages, chilled meats and unfrozen prepared meals and notes that
“once a derogation period has elapsed, Northern supermarkets will have to source such products locally or from the South.”
Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why it is acceptable to him to disadvantage Scotland and our food exporters in such a way? Is it not just another example of why Scotland would be better off as an independent nation state within the EU?
Michael Gove
If Scotland were an independent nation state, it would face trade barriers at Berwick and Cairnryan. By leaving the European Union, Scotland would be—[Interruption.] I am just pointing out the inevitable consequences of the course on which the hon. Lady has set her heart, which would make sure that if Scotland became independent, it would face tariff and regulatory barriers to access its biggest market, which is the rest of the UK. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady asks why; that is the inevitable consequence of independence, alongside the abandonment of the pound sterling and re-entry into the common fisheries policy. It is a terrible course to go on. Because I admire the hon. Lady so much, I hope she will recognise that the future of her Glasgow constituents is better secured by staying in the United Kingdom than by going down the perilous path to separation that the SNP have argued for, like a pied piper, for many decades.
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)
I welcome the pragmatic approach that has been taken in reaching this agreement, which respects the UK’s sovereignty and independence as we leave the EU while recognising the need for the EU to protect its single market. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that same pragmatism now needs to be applied to a trade deal, while respecting those same principles? Will he join me in wishing the Prime Minister well at his dinner tonight?
Michael Gove
I absolutely do, and I also hope that on the EU side we see something of the same pragmatism that we have seen on this particular issue.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
If there is no data adequacy agreement by the end of this month, what is the right hon. Gentleman’s current estimate of the legal and admin cost to businesses of putting in place the new contractual clauses they will have to introduce in order to continue to exchange data with their European partners?
Michael Gove
That is a very important question. I do not have an exact estimate of what the cost of the standard contractual clauses would be, but because we are currently compliant with the general data protection regulation, I see no reason why data adequacy should not be granted.
Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con) [V]
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement and congratulate him on his hard work in achieving this agreement. Will he confirm that this is a pragmatic and sensible approach to protect Northern Ireland’s place in the UK’s customs territory?
Michael Gove
Absolutely—my right hon. Friend has been a consistent champion for business and enterprise in all his years in this House, and he is absolutely right. This pragmatic approach works for businesses in his constituency and in Northern Ireland.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Will the right hon. Gentleman correct his claim on this morning’s “Today” programme that, in the event of no deal, we will continue to benefit from free healthcare if we visit the rest of Europe after 1 January and our students will continue to benefit from the Erasmus programmes?
Michael Gove
It is the case that students who are currently engaged on Erasmus programmes will continue to be part of them until the end of that academic course. It is also the case that UK citizens who have been living in EU countries are covered by the withdrawal agreement rights that we all voted on—I think the right hon. Gentleman voted against, but nevertheless we protected their rights.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for suggesting the lucrative opportunity of exporting conflict diamonds, but just how burdensome will the additional paperwork of which he spoke be?
Michael Gove
Given that there is very little trade that I am aware of in conflict diamonds from Northern Ireland to Great Britain—if anything, it is an even smaller trade than, for example, endangered species products such as tiger skins—I suspect that the bureaucratic burden will be so small as to be almost naked—sorry, I mean invisible to the naked eye. [Laughter.]
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
The mind boggles.
I am all for pragmatism, because that is the best way to sort out a deal that works for Welsh lamb farmers and, for that matter, British car manufacturers and all the rest of it, but I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman about the foreign policy element. On a pragmatic basis, we have always done rather well out of persuading other countries in Europe to adopt, for instance, sanctions against Putin, and we have tried to get people on board with our policy on Hong Kong. How will we be able to do that in future if we have poisoned the well by not having any long-lasting trade deal at the end of the week?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Obviously it would be in our interests to secure a deal, but not at any price. He has been a consistent champion of a tougher approach towards Russia and an advocate of the Magnitsky sanctions. The Foreign Secretary also was a consistent champion for that. We adopted those sanctions, and the EU followed. That is no criticism of the EU, but it is the case that we can continue to have influence. Obviously, if we have a satisfactory arrangement with the EU, that would work for everyone.
Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that today’s welcome announcement is the perfect combination of principle and pragmatism—an approach to the negotiations that our businessmen take every day, which will serve them well as we embrace the future, and that only the Opposition seem to find exceptional?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend has had a brilliant business career, and he is absolutely right: we need to negotiate toughly and be prepared to be flexible in certain circumstances but know ultimately what we want. As we heard from the Leader of the Opposition earlier, I am afraid that when it comes to Brexit, we still do not know what Labour wants.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
If Brexit is shaping up to be such a success, why is it that four and a half years after the referendum, no other European country is seeking to follow the UK out the door? Why are they not looking at these deals being negotiated with envy and thinking that they want a piece of the action? In fact, what is happening is that countries such as Scotland are looking at the European Union and deciding that that is where they want their future to be. It is the United Kingdom that is being left isolated.
Michael Gove
What a remarkable rewriting of history. Just yesterday I was watching CNN, and I saw an amazing 91-year-old gentleman called Martin Kenyon—one of the first people in the world to be vaccinated, and he was vaccinated here in the United Kingdom. It is because of the United Kingdom’s superb regulatory work, our vaccine taskforce, our NHS and our Health Secretary that the first people in the world to be vaccinated were here in the United Kingdom. There are vaccines in Scotland thanks to the UK. The rest of the world is looking on in admiration at our British NHS. On today of all days, it would be nice—and, to be fair, lots of Scottish nationalist Ministers have made this point—to acknowledge that the UK Government have been working in the interests of everyone, and people have been looking at Britain and saying, “That’s great.”
Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)
I commanded on and off a hard checkpoint on the A5 between South Tyrone and County Monaghan for up to two years, where we had chicanes, sangars and obstacles. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that, on 1 January, there will be no sign of that hard checkpoint left?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend, like so many who served with distinction in Northern Ireland, contributed to ending terrorism. Those were hard-won gains, and there will certainly be no return to physical infrastructure of the kind that he had to negotiate when he so bravely served his country.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
Can the right hon. Gentleman give me an indication of when we will finish negotiating and debating Brexit, given that 10 months on from getting Brexit done, we are still debating the same issues, and he said in his statement that further details will be worked through in the month ahead?
Michael Gove
Far be it from me to prevent Liberal Democrats talking about whatever they wish to talk about. As I recall, the first person in this House to argue for an in/out referendum was the former right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam and Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, and people in the Liberal Democrats are still calling for referendums. I am a traditionalist; I love the fact that the Liberal Democrats are consistent in their determination to ensure that, however many referendums we have, we must have more. I am sure that Gladstone, Grey, Harcourt and Chamberlain would all salute the determination of the Liberal Democrats to stay true to their tradition and, when everyone else has settled the question, to say, “Let’s reopen it.”
Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on securing this agreement. It is absolutely right that it must be only the UK authorities that perform any checks. When it comes to the EU authorities supervising or observing, will he confirm that they will be paying for that and that they do not expect UK taxpayers to pick up the bill for their presence?
Michael Gove
It is absolutely the case that the EU will be paying for it. I hope that while people from the EU’s agencies are in Northern Ireland, they will take advantage of Northern Ireland’s wonderful hospitality as well.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The Democratic Unionist party has remained consistent that there must be no border down the Irish sea. Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster give me an assurance that in 2021, the year we mark the centenary of the Union, the good people of Strangford will have no impediment placed on them by Brussels to buying foodstuffs from fellow British citizens in England, Scotland and Wales?
Michael Gove
Absolutely. The citizens of the beautiful Ards peninsula will continue to enjoy the rights that we uphold as shared UK citizens.
Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
My constituents will be joyed by the changes to the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill, as my right hon. Friend knows. The Joint Committee has clearly done its job and shown that rumours of compromise’s demise are greatly over- stated. The British Government have moved and shown much seasonal goodwill, but does he agrees that this announcement truly works for us all only if it is followed imminently by good news on the wider EU-UK trade deal?
Michael Gove
The deal works in its own right. It shows the virtue of principle and pragmatism allied. If we do secure a free trade agreement, that would be an additional helpful bonus.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con) [V]
I thank and congratulate my right hon. Friend on arriving at the position that he has. The Good Friday agreement is protected, the Union has been secured and, more importantly, the rule of law has been upheld. I seek his assurance that, during the grace period, he and his ministerial colleagues will provide strong and active support to businesses of all sizes in Great Britain and Northern Ireland to ensure that they are able to meet the challenges of the new regime successfully.
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes an absolutely critical point. I thank him and the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, which he chairs, for the rigorous scrutiny that they have applied throughout this process, which has ensured that the Government have been kept up to the mark. He is right that concluding the agreement is just one step. We need to continue to support businesses in Northern Ireland, large and small, as they face the challenges and take advantage of the opportunities ahead.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I will now suspend the House for three minutes to allow Members to leave safely and compliantly, and to allow other Members to come in.
Covid-19: UK-Wide Christmas Arrangements
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
On 24 November 2020, agreement was reached between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland on a time-limited change to social contact restrictions over the Christmas period.
Christmas is an important time of year for many people in the UK. Regardless of faith, the Christmas period is a time spent with family and friends while schools and offices are closed. Covid-19 continues, however, to pose a very real and ongoing threat. It will not be possible to take full advantage of the winter holiday season and to celebrate Christmas in the normal way. There will be some hard choices for families and friends, and there will be situations where it is not possible to gather in the way many usually would.
In this context, the UK Government and the devolved Administrations have reached agreement on a single set of UK-wide measures to help people come together with their loved ones in a way that is as safe as possible.
Between 23 and 27 December, up to three households will be able to join together to form an exclusive Christmas “bubble”.
Everyone can be in one bubble only, and cannot change bubble during this time period (the only exemption to this being children (aged under 18) of separated parents).
People (e.g. nannies, cleaners, tradespeople) can continue to work in someone’s home where necessary during this period. To reduce risk, they should observe social distancing wherever possible, and where it can be avoided should not go into homes that are hosting Christmas bubbles.
A Christmas bubble will be able to spend time together in private homes, attend places of worship, or meet in a public outdoor place.
Travel restrictions across the UK will be lifted to allow people to travel to form their bubble. Beyond this, people should follow local restrictions in the area they are staying.
Students who move home from university for the holidays will count as part of their family’s household, and in England an existing support bubble will count as one household.
Even where it is within the rules, meeting with friends and family over Christmas will be a matter of personal judgement for individuals, mindful of the risks to themselves and others. People should reduce unnecessary contact socially with people they do not live with as much as possible in the two weeks before they form their Christmas bubble. Everyone should think carefully about what they do during this period, balancing some increased social contact with the need to keep the risk of increased transmission of the virus as low as possible. This is particularly important when considering those who are vulnerable and elderly.
The clinically extremely vulnerable can form a Christmas bubble, but it is a personal choice and should be balanced against the increased risk of infection for those people. Given the additional risks, visits out of care homes should only be considered for care home residents of working age, where the home is in agreement, and when an individual risk assessment has been completed.
Parents should continue to send their children to school, and students should continue to attend college, in line with local guidance. The UK’s four chief medical officers continue to advise that the best place for children and young people is in education. There is no need for children to be taken out of school early.
It is essential that everyone follows the rules applicable to where they are in the UK. In England, that means continuing to follow the local tiers that will apply from 2 December. It will be particularly important for everyone to follow the social distancing guidelines in the new year and the start of January 2021. Historically, this period is when the NHS sees the greatest pressure on services such as accident and emergency, and the highest rates of bed occupancy, and this year the NHS is dealing with covid-19 as well.
While it will not be a normal Christmas, this UK-wide agreement should offer hope for families and friends who have made many sacrifices over this difficult year.
Guidance on the UK-wide Christmas arrangements and how they apply in England can be found on gov.uk; the devolved Administrations will similarly be updating their guidance—at gov.scot, gov.wales, and nidirect.gov.uk.
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Oral Answers to Questions
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The Government have been clear that the transition period will end on 31 December, when the UK will be outside the single market and the customs union. There is a guaranteed set of changes and opportunities for which the Government, businesses and citizens all need to prepare. The vast majority of the changes that will come into effect will take place regardless of the outcome of negotiations with the European Union on our future trade relationship. Although we have seen a significant increase in readiness among businesses and citizens, there is still more to do, which is why I encourage everybody who needs to do so to go to www.gov.uk/transition, where there is a range of tools to help people to make the changes they need to for life after the end of the transition period.
Chris Elmore [V]
I have every confidence that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster—and all Government Ministers—wishes to continue to prioritise the protection of children online after we leave the transition period. Over the past decade, the UK Safer Internet Centre has removed millions of child sexual abuse images and videos from the internet. Its work costs the UK Government 10p per child under the age of 15 in the UK. What assurances can the Minister give me that the UK Government will continue to fund this work, and will work with the centre, after the EU funding it receives ceases at the end of the transition period?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman raises a critically important question. The online exploitation and abuse of children is one of the most horrific crimes, and the more that we investigate, the more we are aware that its scale is even greater than any of us feared. That is why it is so vital that we continue to fund all the organisations that are fighting this scourge. Funding will be maintained. I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his work in this area.
Mrs Murray [V]
The Marine Management Organisation has stated that about 700,000 tonnes of fish caught in UK waters are landed by other member states. We catch a tiny amount in their waters by comparison. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to ensure that fishing businesses are ready to take advantage of a rebalance once we have finished the transition period?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Under the common fisheries policy, it is not just the case that environmentally we have lost out, but that the coastal communities that she stands up for so brilliantly have lost out as well. As an independent coastal state, we will be able to rebalance the opportunities in our waters in order to ensure that our coastal communities can benefit more financially. We will replace the European maritime fisheries fund with new funding to ensure that there are facilities onshore to help with the processing of the fish that we catch, and of course we will enhance our maritime security capability as well.
Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab) [V]
We left the EU in January and there are now less than 50 days to go until the end of the transition period. Labour Members have been clear that failing to achieve a deal with the EU would be a disaster for the British economy, but deal or no deal, preparations need to be in place for whatever our new trading relationships are on 1 January. In February this year, the Minister recognised the need for 50,000 customs agents trained and ready to go by the end of this year, and in July he announced a £50 million new fund to make this happen. So can he update the House: how many customs agents are now trained and ready to go?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question and also for the emphasis that she quite rightly puts on the need for all businesses to prepare, whether or not we secure a deal. Of course we are determined to secure a deal, and that is why our negotiators, under Lord Frost, are working hard with Michel Barnier to close the remaining gaps in the negotiations. As to the number of customs agents, 50,000 was always an estimate. There has been a significant increase in the number of customs agents who are being employed, both by companies themselves with in-house capacity, and through intermediaries who have been scaling up their activities as well.
Rachel Reeves
It is frustrating that the Minister cannot answer this basic question. One minute he wants to channel his inner Roosevelt and the next minute he says that this should all be left to markets, but businesses are demanding leadership and demanding action. Last week, the National Audit Office expressed its concerns about a lack of preparation, and now more and more businesses are expressing their concerns that crucial technology like the customs declaration system is just not ready. Is the Minister actually in control, and will he stake his own reputation on there being no delays, disruption or lost orders due to this Government’s gross incompetence?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for drawing attention to the National Audit Office report of last week. I would encourage everyone who cares, as she does, about making sure that we make the most of the success that life outside the European Union can offer us, to read that report. One of the points it makes is that there are many IT systems for which the Government are responsible. Progress on all those systems has been good. The customs declaration system is essential to making sure that we make a success of life outside the European Union. That is why we have invested, particularly, hundreds of millions of pounds in making sure that businesses that will use CDS when they are transferring goods to Northern Ireland can do so with the support of the Trader Support Service.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
It is now some 50 days until we go over the Brexit cliff edge, and in the meantime the covid death rate in the UK reaches 50,000. England is in the middle of another national lockdown, unemployment is on the rise, and the faceless characters that actually run this country at No. 10 are at each other’s throats. Should Scotland be celebrating this incoming Brexit, and whose side is the Minister on—Dom’s or Carrie’s?
Michael Gove
I am on the side of people from Aberdeen to Aberystwyth who voted to leave the European Union. They want us as a United Kingdom to make a success of these new opportunities. I know that the Scottish Government are total strangers to behind-the-scenes intrigue and briefing wars, so I can imagine his shock and amazement to see these things reported in the newspapers, but let me assure him that the Government continue to make decisions in the interests of the whole United Kingdom. The people of Perth and North Perthshire can have confidence that they have not only a gamesome representative in the House of Commons, but a Government committed to their welfare.
Pete Wishart
May I tell the right hon. Gentleman what Scotland is in fact doing? Scotland is quickly determining that it wants no part of this incoming Brexit nightmare after the transition. Independence and a European future is now the new settled will of the Scottish people. We are now the majority, so can he think of an example anywhere in the world where another dilapidated, finished Government are attempting to deny a majority in a democracy?
Michael Gove
I think that the hon. Gentleman might be referring to Belarus, of course, with his last question, but let me assure him that the United Kingdom Government remain strong, resolute and committed to delivering on the will of the British people. In particular, the Union, which has provided for 300 years an example of people coming together in a spirit of solidarity to proclaim the values of democracy, human rights and liberalism, will endure for many decades to come.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
We now learn that the First Minister and her deputy have said that there is a “real threat” to the continuity of food supplies in Northern Ireland. The Road Haulage Association has described border preparations as “frankly pathetic”. The customs declaration service probably will not be ready in time, and the NAO has warned that widespread disruption for 1 January is likely. Given that the right hon. Gentleman has repeatedly assured the House that it will all be fine, why does he think so many other people do not share his optimism?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. His Committee on the Future Relationship with the European Union has done extensive work drawing attention to the preparations that are required to be made. There are still significant preparations that we and businesses need to make to conclude our preparedness, which is why later today, I will be meeting representatives from business representative organisations, including the CBI and others, to ensure that everything possible is being done to prepare for the changes. I do not shirk from acknowledging that there are challenges we all face in the run-up to the end of the transition period, but there are also significant opportunities for which the British people voted and which we are pledged to deliver.
Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP)
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
I and other Ministers have regular discussions with representatives of the Scottish Government and also other devolved Administrations to ensure that we can be prepared across the United Kingdom for the challenges we face as we end the transition period and the opportunities that will follow.
Michael Gove
The Scottish Government, unlike the hon. Member, will not be in the dark about the future of the UK shared prosperity fund. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the fact that outside the European Union, we will be able to take back control of the billions that currently we give to the European Union, and we can invest that money in our shared priorities—for example, making sure that his constituents in East Lothian are better connected digitally, by rail and by other means to other parts of the United Kingdom, so they can enjoy the shared prosperity that comes from a strong United Kingdom working for all.
Neil Gray [V]
We now know, through leaked Cabinet papers, that this Tory Government hid their Brexit plans from devolved Governments, including on state aid and food supply availability. How does the Minister expect these Governments to prepare when those crucial details are blocked from Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland? Does he agree that this level of ignorance and contempt is helping to deliver record levels of support for independence and a consistent majority over the last 12 polls in a row?
Michael Gove
I have no secrets from the hon. Gentleman. We take an open-book approach to our preparations for leaving the European Union, which is why, later today, the Cabinet Sub-Committee that deals with the preparations—
Michael Gove
I can see the hon. Gentleman making goldfish-type movements of his lips and teeth. Now he is breaking into a smile. That smile, of course, welcomes the fact that later this afternoon, the Government Sub-Committee that deals with our preparations for leaving the European Union will have Ministers from the devolved Administrations, including my friends from the Scottish Government, taking part. It is one of the pleasures of this role that I have the opportunity every week to talk to excellent colleagues such as Mike Russell, Humza Yousaf and others, who do such a good job in working across the United Kingdom in the interests of all.
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)
Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
Negotiations are continuing in London this week, and this of course is a continuation of the intensive talks that both sides agreed to on 21 October. Progress is being made, but divergences remain. That said, the UK will continue to engage in negotiations on a free trade agreement, and the UK’s negotiation team, led by Lord Frost, will continue to work hard to find solutions that, of course, fully respect the United Kingdom’s regained sovereignty.
David Simmonds
In pursuit of the levelling up agenda, which we are so passionate about, will my right hon. Friend provide an update on the progress being made to ensure that powers that are being released from EU treaties are devolved to local and regional government, where they may most appropriately sit?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point and, as a distinguished former local government leader, he knows the power of good local government to make a difference for the better for all our citizens. That is why, as we take power back from the European Union, we are working not just with the devolved Administrations in Holyrood and Cardiff and Belfast, but also with local government leaders and metro Mayors—including, of course, the superb metro Mayor in Teesside, Ben Houchen—to ensure that we exercise the distribution of power in a more equitable and progressive fashion.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
These negotiations are not going well and time is running out. The best the UK can now hope for is a very basic trade deal with the EU. The Minister knows that in all negotiations there needs to be concessions and some give and take on all sides, so what exactly, if anything, is the UK willing to concede or compromise on?
Michael Gove
The UK has already shown a great degree of flexibility in these negotiations, but it is that the European Union shows flexibility too, and in particular there needs to be full recognition that we are sovereign equals, and any attempt to continue to tie the UK into EU processes or to extend EU jurisdiction by other means will be quite wrong.
Tony Lloyd [V]
May I remind the Minister that the Road Haulage Association described the Government’s preparations for the transition as not only “chaotic” but “pathetic” and said that
“logistics may not be able to deliver”?
The Minister has a deserved reputation for politeness, but can he also be candid and give us a guarantee that there will be no jobs lost and no goods not delivered, particularly to and from Northern Ireland, when we hit the end of the transition period?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point, and in his time in this House he has been a distinguished champion of the rights of the people of Northern Ireland. It is very important in the discussions that we have in the Joint Committee that we make sure that we implement the protocol on the future of Northern Ireland in a way that ensures that its people can continue to have unfettered access to the rest of the UK, and in particular that we can maintain the flow of goods that are so vital to the life of the Province. That is why I am confident that the Vice-President of the European Commission, Maroš Šefčovič, who is the co-chair of the Joint Committee, will work pragmatically, as he has in the past, to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland have a secure future.
Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)
When the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster made his statement to the House on the negotiations on 19 October, his former boss, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), was left incredulous when he told her that without access to previously shared databases, the UK could act
“more effectively to safeguard our borders outside the European Union than we ever could inside.”—[Official Report, 19 October 2020; Vol. 682, c. 761.]
So can he explain precisely how without that access we will get the real-time information needed to pick up foreign criminals at the point of entry in ports and airports?
Michael Gove
One of the things that we will be able to do when we take back control is to have total discretion over who comes into this country. One of things that we will be able to do, for example, is to end the abuse of ID cards, which are easily forged, easily used by organised criminals, and utilised in order to gain access to this country. Once we are out of the transition period, we will take back control of our borders, a precondition of greater security for all.
Paul Blomfield
Frankly, we are at a stage of this process where empty reassurances and dodging questions just will not do. Earlier this week, the president of the Police Superintendents Association said that without this access, information sharing will be “less effective”, and highlighted his concern about the implications for policing and security. So let me try again. At the Home Affairs Committee on 4 November, the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster), was asked repeatedly by the Chair to state which real-time system will be available for Border Force to identify foreign criminals, without access to SIS II. Repeatedly, the Minister was unable to give an answer, so can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster simply answer that question?
Michael Gove
Yes, of course; it is the case that Border Force will be in a stronger position to be able to detect a criminal—[Interruption.] Well, if the hon. Gentleman keeps asking the same question, I will give him the same answer, which is that Border Force will be able, through the deployment of safety and security declarations, to have a more effective means of monitoring organised criminals. The truth is that when we take back control of our borders, we enhance our ability to deal with criminality.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
We have extensive discussions across Cabinet and with representatives from the devolved Administrations as we co-ordinate an appropriate UK-wide response to the covid-19 outbreak. Only yesterday afternoon I was discussing with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales how we can ensure that we can co-ordinate effectively the roll-out of mass testing.
Dr Evans [V]
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his answer. Building on that answer, what steps is he taking to ensure that, as the guidance and lockdown measures change, the public are fully informed about what is expected of them across the UK?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a vital point. Of course, devolved Administrations have the right and responsibility to tailor solutions to their geography and their populations, but unity of communication is important. That is why, in the call we had yesterday, we also talked about the vital importance of having an aligned approach towards relaxation of restrictions for the Christmas period so that people can be with friends and family across the United Kingdom, confident that they are following rules that have been agreed by all.
Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
As a number of hon. and right hon. Members have reminded us, there are just 50 days to go before the end of the transition period. That is why I am pleased to be able to discuss with the CBI and other business representative organisations this afternoon exactly how we can ensure that we are all ready for both the challenges and the opportunities that that will bring.
Kenny MacAskill [V]
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Even senior Tories are accepting the inevitability of a second referendum. As Parnell once said:
“No man has a right to fix the boundary to the march of a nation.”
Scots have learned, as the Secretary of State will know, from the trickery of 1979 when even the dead were counted against. Does he not then realise that the people of Scotland will not accept political chicanery on the number or the nature of the question to be asked?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. It is vital that we have confidence in the integrity of our democratic institutions. That is why the Electoral Commission and other bodies play such an important role. Of course, it is also important that people can have confidence in the promises made by politicians, and it was the case in 2014 that Nicola Sturgeon and leading Scottish nationalists made the point that that referendum was for a generation. Just six years later, I do not believe a generation has passed.
Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con) [V]
Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove and Talke are rich with industrial heritage, from the pits of Chatterley Whitfield to the pots of Middleport Pottery. We are also a UK-leading city, having installed a full-fibre network that will connect every home and business to gigabit. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we are the perfect location for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport’s new hub?
Michael Gove
I cannot think of anywhere better to put DCMS Ministers than Stoke-on-Trent: a jewel in the heart of Staffordshire, home to industrial innovation for generations and boasting three of the finest Members of Parliament in the House of Commons.
Mr Speaker
Talking of which, what will you say to Robert Halfon? Let us bring him in.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]
Michael Gove
Yes, my right hon. Friend makes an important point. While taxation matters are questions for the Chancellor, who will be updating the House shortly on a variety of important fiscal matters, it is nevertheless the case that outside the European Union we can lower VAT in a way that we could not within the European Union—one of the many benefits of Brexit.
Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)
The right to vote independently and in secret should be enjoyed by every voter at an election. I draw the Minister’s attention to the recent report by the Royal National Institute of Blind People about the last general election that found that just one in 10 blind voters and less than half of partially sighted voters were able to cast their vote independently and in secret. What steps are the Government taking to turn around those terrible statistics so that blind and partially sighted voters can enjoy the right that sighted voters have to vote independently and in secret?
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady makes an important point, and it is important that everyone’s vote counts. Those who are living with a disability, blind or partially sighted must feel that they can have confidence in the integrity of our electoral system. We have forthcoming legislation on electoral integrity, and I know that the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), has been working with charities to ensure that we have a fully inclusive and modern voting system.
Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend does a fantastic job speaking up for the fishermen on both the north and south coasts of Cornwall, and I can absolutely reassure her that in the negotiations we are standing firm on ensuring that her constituents and the coastal communities that she represents can benefit from our exit from the common fisheries policy.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) [V]
Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)
Michael Gove
Yes. My hon. Friend makes an important point, and it was one that was emphasised earlier. The relocation of parts of Government to different parts of the United Kingdom is not just about distributing economic opportunity; it is also about ensuring that, as we think about the future, we represent in particular those undervalued communities and overlooked families in coastal communities just like Blackpool, who for generations now have not been at the centre of our thinking about how to ensure that we truly represent every citizen. One of the lessons of the Brexit campaign and its aftermath is that far too many people in the United Kingdom felt that the values and instincts of those who governed them were out of tune with their own sentiments and beliefs, and we have got to ensure, as we restructure government, that their values and instincts are at the heart of everything.
Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con)
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes an important point. Listening to some of the questions from the other side of the House, you would think that the only way in which we could ever procure vaccines, testing or personal protective equipment was by having some sort of Gosplan Stalinist approach in which no private sector individual or organisation could ever be involved. I think that most people looking at, for example, the contribution of—
Mr Speaker
Order. I do not think we need more political broadcasts. We have had a good day today. We are meant to have short, punchy answers to these questions, not rhetoric.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)
Michael Gove
Again, my hon. Friend makes an important point. There is no better representation of how we work well together as a country than the shared sacrifices made by those in our military, and they are doing an outstanding job in supporting us in the fight against coronavirus, as they did in all the challenges we have faced in the last 100 years.
Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes absolutely the right point—we will be able to control who comes into this country—but we will also have visa-free travel with the EU.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Michael Gove
As I mentioned earlier, I will be meeting businesses this afternoon to make sure we provide all the support necessary for businesses, in York and elsewhere. The hon. Lady makes an important point about working together, but she prefaced her remarks by reflecting on the length of time from the referendum to the conclusion of the transition period, which would have been shorter had her party been committed to implementing the results of the referendum. I commend to her the words of the hon. Members for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) and for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery)—wise men indeed.
Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con)
Michael Gove
With excellent advocates such as my hon. Friend the south-west will always be heard and never left behind, and it is indeed crucial that we make the most of the opportunities that Exeter and Devon can provide for a bright economic future.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) [V]
Michael Gove
Whenever I see the hon. Gentleman, I am irresistibly reminded of the words of “Bring Me Sunshine”. I do not know whether he is Wise, but he is certainly one of the reasons the Conservatives represent Morecambe.
Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con) [V]
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very important point, and he has been a consistent and effective advocate for the rights of older and vulnerable citizens in all his time in the House. We must make sure, both through effective voter registration and through the effective roll-out of our vaccination programme, that older and vulnerable voters are in a position to take part in the democratic process, and I will work with the Minister for the Constitution and Devolution to do just that.
Mr Speaker
Thank you for getting through topicals on time—we have done well. In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I am suspending the House for three minutes.
Transparency of Intergovernmental Relations: Update
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
Today, the Government are announcing new measures to improve the transparency and accountability of relations between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations.
We are taking these steps because the Government recognise that effective transparency, accountability and parliamentary scrutiny of the Government’s participation in intergovernmental structures will support relationships between the Government and devolved Administrations so that we work together effectively on behalf of citizens across the UK.
A new dedicated www.gov.uk page for intergovernmental relations (IGR) has been created. On this website, all documents relating to IGR, including the memorandum of understanding on devolution, relevant documents and reports related to intergovernmental forums will be published at timely intervals. This includes uploading communiqués after each formal intergovernmental meeting containing information on the date, location, chair, participants and discussion points of meetings. This collection will grow and evolve as we revise and strengthen our intergovernmental structures and conclude the review of intergovernmental relations. However, we are launching the website today as we recognise the benefits of implementing new behaviours and good practice immediately to support parliamentary and public scrutiny of the UK Government’s participation in existing intergovernmental forums.
Our long-term strategy for strengthening transparency of IGR will involve publishing a quarterly report on this gov.uk page. This report will include a list of all engagements for each forum, any resolved disputes and their outcomes and associated third-party reports when relevant. The first report will be published in 2021.
On an annual basis, a report will be laid in both Houses of Parliament by Command Paper. This will collate the key information from the quarterly reports, as well as include any written or service-level agreements reached between Administrations over the reporting period, background information and a list of ministerial appearances before parliamentary committees. The Government also commit to making regular statements to Parliament on IGR, including appearances before relevant committees when requested.
The measures will not apply universally including where issues are commercially or market sensitive or matters of national security. They will not apply to the myriad regular official meetings or to informal bilateral discussions.
These measures apply to the participation of Ministers of the Crown in formal, intergovernmental structures and are intended to support Parliament’s capacity to scrutinise intergovernmental relations. The measures do not place any obligations on other Administrations to report to their legislatures, although they mirror the approaches taken by the Welsh and Scottish Governments.
In tandem, the joint review of intergovernmental relations continues to progress with the devolved Administrations and the UK Government remain committed to finalising a product at pace. These measures will complement any future structures at the outcome of the review.
[HCWS564]
Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee Meeting
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee met on 19 October 2020 in London, with delegations attending in person and by video conference.
The meeting was co-chaired by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and European Commission Vice President, Maroš Šefčovicč, and attended by the alternate Joint Committee co-chairs; the First Minister and deputy First Minister of the Northern Ireland Executive; and member state representatives.
The Committee undertook a stocktake of specialised Committee activity since the last meeting on 28 September. The Committee also updated on implementation of the withdrawal agreement, with particular focus on the Northern Ireland protocol and citizens’ rights.
The UK reiterated their commitment to upholding obligations under the withdrawal agreement and protecting the Belfast (Good Friday) agreement in all respects. The UK further emphasised commitment to EU citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU, ensuring they have their rights under the withdrawal agreement protected.
The Committee adopted the citizens’ rights joint report on residency and agreed to its publication.
The UK reiterated its commitment to implementing the protocol in full so the people of Northern Ireland can be given the fundamental legal assurances they need, and will not face the damaging prospect of the unmitigated defaults of the protocol under any circumstances.
The Committee considered the remaining WAJC tasks during the rest of the transition period.
The UK took the opportunity provided by this meeting to underline its commitment to continued constructive engagement with the EU through Joint Committee processes.
[HCWS525]
EU Exit: Negotiations and the Joint Committee
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to update the House on the Government’s negotiations with the European Union on our future trading relationship and also the work of the UK/EU Joint Committee established under the withdrawal agreement.
First, on the talks on the new trade agreement, we had hoped to conclude a Canada-style free trade agreement before the transition period ends on 31 December this year but, as things stand, that will not now happen. We remain absolutely committed to securing a Canada-style FTA, but there does need to be a fundamental change in approach from the EU if the process is to get back on track. I have come to the House at the first available opportunity to explain why and how we have reached this point.
We have been clear since the summer that we saw 15 October—last Thursday—as the target date for reaching an agreement with the EU. The Prime Minister and the Commission President Ursula von der Leyen agreed on 3 October that our negotiating team should work intensively to bridge the remaining gaps between us, and we made clear that we were willing to talk every day. But I have to report to the House that this intensification was not forthcoming. The EU was willing to conduct negotiations only on fewer than half the days available and would not engage on all of the outstanding issues. Moreover, the EU refused to discuss legal texts in any area, as it has done since the summer. Indeed, it is almost incredible to our negotiators that we have reached this point in the negotiations without any common legal texts of any kind.
On 15 October, the EU Heads of State and Government gathered for the European Council. The conclusions of that Council reaffirmed the EU’s original negotiating mandate. They dropped a reference to intensive talks that had been in the draft and they declared that all—all—future moves in the negotiation had to be made by the UK. Although some attempts were made to soften that message by some EU leaders, the European Council reaffirmed those conclusions as authoritative on Friday. That unfortunate sequence of events has, in effect, ended the trade negotiations because it leaves no basis on which we can actually find agreement. There is no point in negotiations proceeding as long as the EU sticks with that position. Such talks would be meaningless and would take us no nearer to finding a workable solution.
That is the situation we now face, and that is why the Prime Minister had to make it clear on 16 October that the EU had refused to negotiate seriously for much of the past month or so. The EU had now, at the European Council, explicitly ruled out a free trade agreement with us, like the one that it has with Canada, and therefore this country should get ready for 1 January 2021 with arrangements that are more like Australia’s, based on simple principles of global free trade.
Now, if the EU wants to change that situation—and I devoutly hope it will—it needs to make a fundamental change in its approach and make clear it has done so. It has to be serious about talking intensively on all issues and trying to reach a conclusion, and I hope it will. But it also needs to accept that it is dealing with an independent and sovereign country now. We have tried to be clear from the start that we would not be able to reach an agreement inconsistent with that status. I do not think that we could be accused of keeping that a secret. Yet the proposals that the EU has discussed with us in recent weeks, which it presents as compromises, are simply not consistent with our new sovereign status—certainly not yet.
While I do not doubt that many on the EU side are well intentioned, we cannot accept the negotiators’ proposals that would require us to provide full, permanent access to our fishing waters, with quotas substantially unchanged to those that were imposed by EU membership. We cannot operate a state aid system which is essentially the same as the EU’s, with great discretion given to the EU to retaliate against us if it thought that we were deviating from it. More broadly, we cannot accept an arrangement that means that we stay in step with laws that have been proposed and adopted by the EU across areas of critical national importance.
In a nutshell, we have been asking for no more than what has been offered in trade agreements to other global trading countries, such as Canada—terms that, of course, the EU said last year it had no difficulty offering to us. We are not even asking for special favours reflecting our 45 years as a member state—during which we paid in every day more than we took out—quite the reverse. But even if this new arrangement is impossible for the EU, I must inform the House that we will be leaving on 31 December on Australian-style terms and trading on the basis of WTO rules.
With just 10 weeks left until the end of the transition period, I have to emphasise that that is not my preferred outcome and nor is it the Prime Minister’s. We recognise that there will be some turbulence, but we have not come so far to falter now, when we are so close to reclaiming our sovereignty. We have to be in control of our own borders and our fishing grounds. We have to set our own laws. We have to be free to thrive as an independent free trading nation, embracing the freedoms that flow as a result. So it is important that I turn to the preparations that we are now intensifying for the end of the transition period. These apply whether we have a free trade agreement or otherwise, of course.
I am not blithe or blasé about the challenges ahead, particularly given the additional problems that we have dealing with the covid-19 pandemic. However, leaving the EU on Australian terms is an outcome for which we are increasingly well prepared. Ever since the UK decided it would leave the single market and the customs union on 31 December, Government and businesses alike have been working hard to prepare for the new procedures that were the inevitable result. I congratulate businesses on the resourcefulness they have shown so far. We want to work with them so that they continue responding as energetically, flexibly and imaginatively as possible to the challenges of change. We also want to work with them to prepare for the opportunities ahead, including those stemming from our new free trade deals, such as the agreement with Japan struck by the Secretary of State for International Trade, which, of course, grants us far more favourable access to the world’s third biggest economy than we had as an EU member.
I would like to put on record my particular thanks to the road haulage industry, customs intermediaries and others for their constructive engagement with Government, including at our extensive roundtable last week.
This week, the Prime Minister and I will be speaking again to business leaders to discuss preparations for life outside the EU. We will continue to listen to their concerns, and we will redouble our efforts to help them to adjust and prosper. The XO Cabinet Committee—the EU Exit Operations Committee—meets daily and will intensify its operational focus on business readiness. We continue to work closely with our partners in the devolved Administrations because we want to ensure that every part of the UK is ready for the end of the transition period.
In these final 10 weeks, we are intensifying our public information campaign. Every firm will find the information it needs on new rules which govern trade between Britain and the EU at gov.uk/transition. Today, HMRC is writing to 200,000 traders that do business with the EU to reinforce their understanding of the new customs and tax rules. We are also putting in place IT systems to help goods flow across borders. We are giving business access to customs professionals to help with new ways of working and we have also planned how to fast-track vital goods in the first few weeks to get around EU bureaucracies. We have already published and indeed updated our border operating model. We have announced £705 million-worth of investment in jobs, infrastructure and technology at the border. We have also strengthened our maritime security to protect our fishing fleets and safeguard our seas.
In addition to the steps we are taking, we are also continuing our work with the EU in the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee. I would like to update the House on its latest meeting, which took place earlier this morning. Coming only three weeks after the last meeting, I am pleased to report that in this forum the approach from the EU is very constructive. There is a clear imperative on both sides to find solutions and we remain committed to working collaboratively with the EU through the Joint Committee process.
At our last meeting in Brussels I agreed with my co-chair, Vice-President Šefčovič, that we would intensify discussions to implement the withdrawal agreement, primarily around citizens’ rights and the Northern Ireland protocol. Our officials have since held numerous sessions and today in London I reiterated the UK’s commitment to upholding all our obligations under both the withdrawal agreement and the Belfast agreement. We agreed that we will publish a joint update on citizens’ rights and I am pleased to confirm that almost 4 million EU citizens in the UK have now received status under our scheme. We have also discussed our work to implement the Northern Ireland protocol. We are taking steps to implement new agrifood arrangements. We also acknowledge the EU’s concerns about appropriate monitoring of implementation. We now have a better understanding of its requests and the reasoning behind them. We have confirmed that the specialised committee will work intensively to ensure that we can make progress in this area, and with respect to Gibraltar and the sovereign base issues.
A lot remains to be resolved before the end of December, but we have made substantial progress on implementation. I look forward to further engagement with Vice-President Šefčovič in the weeks ahead. I want to put on record my personal appreciation for the constructive tone and the pragmatic spirit with which he and his team have approached our discussions.
In his statement on Friday, the Prime Minister looked ahead to 2021 as a year of recovery and renewal when this Government will be focused on tackling covid-19 and building back better. We are getting ready to do now what the British people asked of us: to forge our own path and not to acquiesce to anyone else’s agenda. On the negotiations, our door is not closed. It remains ajar, and I very much hope that the EU will fundamentally change its position, but, come what may, on 31 December, we will take back control. I commend this statement to the House.
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her questions. With respect to an oven-ready deal, the withdrawal agreement was concluded happily and voted on by the House of Commons, so we had a deal—a deal which many on the Labour Benches opposed, but a deal which means that our destiny is certain and that we are fulfilling the wishes of the British people. In the same way as 52% of the population of the United Kingdom and 53% of the population of Leeds West—her constituency—voted to leave, we will leave. We are honouring our commitment to the British people.
The hon. Lady was kind enough to refer to some of the past statements I have made that were quoted on the television briefly at the weekend. I have to say—and this is no reflection on her—that if she is going to talk about past statements, she had better clear that with the Leader of the Opposition, who in the past has favoured EU membership, then said he would accept the referendum result, then said that we needed a second referendum in order to satisfy the first, then said that we should have an extension of our membership of the European Union and the transition period, and is now silent on all those questions.
Mr Speaker
Order. This is a statement on Government policy, not the policy of the Opposition.
Michael Gove
I was merely pointing out, Mr Speaker, that we had an oven-ready deal, and from Labour we had an indigestible dog’s breakfast and a Leader of the Opposition who will not eat his words.
The hon. Lady asked about the various deadlines. Those are deadlines that the UK Government have set but that the EU has not met. In any negotiation, both sides have to honour their commitments. As I pointed out in my statement—and she did not, of course, acknowledge this—we were available to talk every day in the weeks preceding the European Council, and the European Union was not. But our firmness on this proposition is now bearing fruit. As we were exchanging thoughts across the Dispatch Box earlier, my colleague David Frost was in conversation with Michel Barnier. I now believe it is the case that Michel Barnier has agreed both to the intensification of talks and to working on legal texts—a reflection of the strength and resolution that our Prime Minister showed, in stark contrast with the approach that the Opposition have often enjoined us to take, of simply accepting what the EU wants at every stage.
The hon. Lady asked about preparation. It is absolutely right to say that we should talk to the automotive sector. That is why, as I pointed out in my statement, the Prime Minister has a business roundtable tomorrow with business representative organisations. She also asked about inland sites. I can confirm that we will have two inland sites at Ashford—Sevington and Waterbook—and one at Ebbsfleet, one at Thames Gateway, one at North Weald, one at Birmingham, one at Warrington, one at Holyhead, one in south Wales and another at White Cliffs in Dover. All those sites will bring extra jobs and investment to the UK as we forge a confident path ahead.
Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. The Government appear resigned to the prospect of no deal, yet one area in which they should not be resigned to the prospect of no deal is security. I note that my right hon. Friend made no mention of security in his statement this afternoon, and the Prime Minister made no reference to security in his letter to parliamentarians on 16 October. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that, if the UK walks away with no deal, then our police and other law enforcement agencies will no longer have the necessary access to databases such as PNR—passenger name records—to be able to continue to identify and catch criminals and potential terrorists in order to keep us safe?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes a very important point about security. I would say three things. The first thing to say is that significant progress has been made in respect of security co-operation, but it is the case that the EU is insisting that, before we have access to systems such as the Schengen information system II, that we have to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. We cannot accept that.
The second thing I would say is that there are many areas in which we can co-operate more effectively to safeguard our borders outside the European Union than we ever could inside. Through a variety of methods and arrangements open to us, open to Border Force and open to our security and intelligence services, we can intensify the security that we give to the British people. The third thing I would say to my right hon. Friend is that I agree with her. When it comes to everything—security and other matters—no deal is better than a bad deal.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
So here we go. The coveted no deal is now within touching distance. The dance of the no-deal seven veils is now down to its Brexit underwear. The easiest deal in history will now mean the UK leaving on Mongolian terms. The absolute rubbish we had to listen to about oven-ready deals and holding all the cards is now just the stuff of grotesque bad jokes. And whose fault is it? Well, not the Minister’s or that of this cabal of Tory anti-EU obsessives. It is all the fault of these Europeans. How dare they ask the Tories to stand by what they agreed, and how dare they ask for a level playing field and to retain the integrity of the single market! The EU must have the patience of saints to try to negotiate with these clown shoe-wearing goalpost shifters. As we have just heard, the EU has once again offered to have intensive talks, so it is back in your court, Minister.
The Minister somehow expects Scotland to go along with this disaster. Well there is a saying that he will know as a proud Scot, which will be Scotland’s response to this: he can go awa’ an’ bile his heid. Independence is now the settled will of the Scottish people, with 58% of Scots now in favour, so here is a proposition for the Minister: why does he not just go off and get his no-deal Brexit if that is what England indeed wants, and in Scotland we can now secure our independence—what our people want—which will allow us to design our own future European relationship? Surely there is nothing wrong with that. He gets what he wants and we get what we want. Will he agree to that at last, and say goodbye to his rotten Union and his rotten no-deal Brexit?
Michael Gove
As ever, I am in awe of the hon. Member’s ability, in a very short period, to bring so many metaphors together in what one can only describe as a car crash of similes. The Government, according to him, is wearing seven veils and clown shoes while also shifting goalposts. I have to say that I would love to see that circus performance, but I suspect that I will have to wait, because the SNP conference has I think been cancelled this year.
The second thing I would like to say in response to the hon. Member is that he refers disparagingly to this deal as a “Mongolian deal”. I do not know what Mongolia has ever done to offend the people of Scotland, but we in the UK value our friendship with the people of Ulaanbaatar and others. Certainly, we do not believe that this looking down on other peoples in other nations is appropriate. It may be appropriate for the atavistic nationalism which some SNP supporters avail themselves of, but those of us who believe in the Union, believe in friendship among all nations.
On the hon. Member’s final point about working together, I absolutely agree. The devolved Administrations must work with us and we must work with them to make sure that, as we leave the European Union, the communities of all parts of the United Kingdom prosper. One of the things I do regret is that, even though I value my close working with his colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Economy and Tourism, Fergus Ewing, unfortunately, Scottish Government policy would mean that we would be back in the common fisheries policy. That would mean the people of Scotland’s coastal communities would lose out. I am sure he would not want that, and that is why I hope we can continue to work together to reap the benefits of the sea of opportunity that Brexit will bring.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. I think he is right, because it was clear in the whole agreement that both sides needed to negotiate in good faith with a view to reaching an agreement. Yet it has been quite clear throughout that, for example, the refusal of those on the EU side to engage on financial services, which are 80% of our economy, but their determination to get a deal on the majority of theirs, which is trade in agri-products, is not good faith. How exactly does he intend to go forward with regard to the problems in the withdrawal agreement that will now be outstanding even if we make no trade deal?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes two very important points, the first of which relates to the approach that the European Union has taken. As I mentioned, even while I have been at the Dispatch Box it has been reported that there has been a constructive move on the part of the European Union, and I welcome that. Obviously we need to make sure that we work on the basis of the proposed intensification that it proposes. I prefer to look forward in optimism rather than necessarily to look back in anger. However, as he says, the difficult period that we have had over the past two weeks has been the result of some on the EU side not being as energetic as we have been in trying to reach agreement. He also makes an important point about making sure that we iron out all the difficulties in the withdrawal agreement. That is part of my role in the Joint Committee. I am grateful to him and to others for the advice they have offered as to how we should approach these difficult issues.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
Despite what the Minister said in his opening remarks, it is quite clear that negotiations are continuing, and the war of words now needs to stop. Both sides need to get together and agree a deal, recognising that both will have to compromise. On preparations for 1 January, given that businesses do not know exactly how trade between GB and Northern Ireland is going to work—the pharmaceuticals industry does not have a clue—and given that the goods movement IT system is not yet in operation because it is not ready, while nowhere near enough customs agents have yet been recruited, why is it the Government’s approach to say to firms that they have their head in the sand and are not ready, when the Government cannot tell them exactly what they are meant to be getting ready for?
Michael Gove
I actually think that is a fair question that contains at least two very important pieces of wisdom. On the first, the EU took a position last week and in the weeks beforehand that was, as was widely acknowledged, not constructive, not designed to achieve progress, and not engaging with the detail. If, as a result of our clear view that we could not proceed on that basis, there has been movement, as it seems as though there has been today, then no one will welcome it more than me. But we cannot have from the EU the illusion of engagement without the reality of compromise: I completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman on that.
On the second point, yes, both with regard to trade in Northern Ireland and more broadly, there are aspects that need to be worked out. That is why we want to intensify these negotiations. If occasionally, in the crossfire between different parts of business, Government and others, different people express their frustration, that is fine. The most important thing is that we make sure that we work together in order to deliver.
Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. If the EU does not want to complete negotiations by this time, then we have to ensure that the whole country is ready for the consequences, so nothing is more important than keeping our ports working efficiently and effectively. Will he join me in commending the work of the local resilience forum in Hampshire on plans to ensure that Portsmouth, which has particular local transport challenges, can continue to support EU-bound freight? Will he update the House on funding available to help make sure that resources for these very important plans are in place?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. Both the local resilience forum in Hampshire and the authorities in the port of Portsmouth have been working incredibly hard to make sure that they are ready for every eventuality. New facilities are being built at the port of Portsmouth. The port of Portsmouth is putting in an application to the port infrastructure fund for them. I had the opportunity to meet the leader of Portsmouth council and the chief executive of the port alongside my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General last Thursday. It is the case that some additional resource will be required to make sure that we can avoid any potential traffic congestion near Portsmouth, and we are working with the local authority to achieve just that.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) [V]
The Government are planning to break the withdrawal agreement they signed only last year, thereby breaking international law and sending us into economic self-isolation. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster knows that a Canada deal is possible if he agrees the protections that are required for workers’ rights and our environment. Will he go back and agree those protections and, with them, a tariff-free trade agreement so that we can avoid the self-infliction of a no-deal Brexit alongside a raging pandemic, which would be a complete disaster for everyone in the UK?
Michael Gove
I have great affection for the hon. Gentleman, but he gets three things wrong. He says that we are planning to resile from the withdrawal agreement, he says that we will go into economic self-isolation, and he suggests that we should accept EU rules in all the areas that he mentions. My reply is: no, no, no.
Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con)
As my right hon. Friend mentioned in his statement, Warrington is set to be the location of a new inland border facility on a former coach interchange in my constituency. Will he tell us a little more about what that will mean for jobs in my local area? What assurances can he give to local residents who are concerned about lorries clogging up village roads?
Michael Gove
My colleague Lord Agnew, the Cabinet Office Minister, has been in touch with my hon. Friend and with the local authority to stress that there will be additional investment, which will mean more jobs in Warrington. We expect that there will be an additional 375 jobs created in Warrington, split between new jobs for colleagues in the Border Force, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, Mitie and the haulage firm Wincanton. The current expectation is that that number will rise to around 460 jobs by December next year. We are also working to make sure that there is appropriate additional funding to ensure that there is no additional traffic problem for him, his constituents or those in neighbouring villages.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) [V]
I have known the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster all his political career. May I urge him not to keep the door ajar but to open the door to continuing negotiations? Not to have a deal would be a historic, shameful failure. It would hurt my constituents and his, with broken businesses and unemployment, and blight the future of a new generation and generations to come. Please, I beg him to try again for all of us.
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. We sincerely want an agreement, but we cannot have an agreement on any terms. I know that his constituents, like mine, voted to leave the European Union—
Michael Gove
Oh, a curious absence, then, in Yorkshire. Whatever our disagreements, the hon. Gentleman and I agree that we should work together in the best interests of all the citizens of the United Kingdom. I am always grateful for his wisdom. Ever since I first arrived in the House, he has been a good friend and a wise head, and whenever I have gone wrong it is because I have not paid too much attention—sorry, it is because I have not paid enough attention to his words.
Nicola Richards (West Bromwich East) (Con)
The UK will prosper mightily as an independent free trading nation with control over our money, laws and borders. What support has my right hon. Friend put in place to help business leaders in West Bromwich East prepare for the changes and opportunities that that will bring when we leave the transition period at the end of this year?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Fundamentally, whatever turbulence may occur, whatever bumps in the road there might be in the months ahead, the strengths and resilience of our economy mean that we will prosper mightily. The manufacturing leaders in her constituency in West Bromwich and more widely across the Black Country and the west midlands are benefiting directly from the investment that we are making in customs intermediaries, in new IT processes and systems, and in our Prime Minister’s broader commitment to levelling up. We must make opportunity more equal across the United Kingdom, and my hon. Friend’s championing of business in West Bromwich is a critical part of that.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
Protecting the Good Friday agreement means protecting Northern Ireland’s place as an integral part of the United Kingdom, for that is the settled will of the people of Northern Ireland exercised through the principle of consent. Will the Secretary of State give us an update on discussions in the Joint Committee on the issue of export declarations and the fact that they are not required for goods travelling from Northern Ireland to Great Britain? Will he also give us an update on the issue of goods at risk and the EU attitude on this, to ensure that goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland that are not passing on to the Republic of Ireland are not subject to unnecessary and costly disruption?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes three very important points. On the first, about exit declarations, he is absolutely right: the protocol is there both to help us safeguard the EU’s single market, but also to affirm Northern Ireland’s integral place in the United Kingdom and within its customs territory, and there is no need for customs declarations for goods coming from Northern Ireland to the rest of Great Britain. As for his point about goods at risk, he is absolutely right about that as well: bread that is baked in Huddersfield and goes into a supermarket in Ballymena should not be subject to tariffs, because it is trade within the United Kingdom. And his final point is right as well: the Belfast agreement was a balanced agreement, and sometimes some of the rhetoric we hear about the Belfast agreement seems to me to be inadequate in its understanding of the vital importance of the fact that the majority of people in Northern Ireland have voted to stay part of the United Kingdom. Their rights, their views, their loyalty needs to be respected.
Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con)
The toughest negotiators in this country are the farmers in my constituency, and my farmers recognise at this moment that my right hon. Friend and Lord Frost are excellent negotiators. That is borne out by the news that the talks are intensifying, including on legal texts. May I ask my right hon. Friend to meet me to talk about business engagement, especially in the agricultural sector in the devolved Administrations environment, since the devolved Administrations seem hostile to us getting any kind of successful deal?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: I have met farmers in his constituency, and a tougher bunch of negotiators we would be hard-pressed to find. But he is absolutely right also that their interests need to be protected, and not just by the UK Government but by the devolved Administration—by the Government in Wales. We need to work together to ensure that we are supporting them. In the event of an Australian-style exit, one of the sectors that we will need most energetically to support is the sheepmeat sector, and we will—and to be fair to the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), she made that point.
Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP) [V]
The UK imports 37 million packets of medicines from the EU every single month. The pharmaceutical industry has highlighted the difficulty in rebuilding full stockpiles for the end of transition due to the impact of covid, so, with just 74 days to go, how will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that there are no drug shortages, particularly of insulin, which the UK does not produce, and radioisotopes, which cannot be stockpiled?
Michael Gove
The hon. Lady brings formidable expertise to this area, and she is absolutely right to highlight the fact that we need rapid access to both insulin and radioisotopes. That is why the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department for Transport have put in place contingency arrangements should there be any risk of disruption, but we are also confident that the steps we have taken more broadly will ensure that we have freight flowing freely between the UK and the EU, including in this critical area.
Damian Green (Ashford) (Con)
First, I should pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean), for her exemplary communications with my constituents who live near the Sevington lorry park; I am very grateful.
I still hope and expect that we will get a deal, but either way, may I ask my right hon. Friend how confident he is that the smart freight system will be fully operational by 1 January, and if it is not, what does he think will happen?
Michael Gove
I join my right hon. Friend in praising the efforts of the Transport Minister, who has been incredibly energetic and determined to make sure that colleagues in Kent from all parties are kept informed on the progress of our preparations. The smart freight portal is being shared with hauliers and others as we speak. It is currently in its beta phase and we want to ensure that it is further refined, but the straightforward approach that it should provide should enable us to minimise any disruption that my right hon. Friend or his constituents face. I am absolutely confident it will be in place; if it were not, other measures would need to be taken, but they would not be as helpful as the smart freight system.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
We have heard it all now: it is just, according to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, “an unfortunate sequence of events”, otherwise known as the Lemony Snicket defence—all the fault of evil uncle Olaf and his foreign friends. But on the serious point about this, consider how it will affect, for example, our musicians who go on tour. They are usually not part of large operations. They might take their instrument, fly on a budget flight, try to sell some of their merchandise, cross a few borders in the European Union—that is how they scrape a living. They are making no money now. Will he please consider the consequences of no deal, admit that this is not a frivolous issue but a matter of people’s livelihoods, and seriously engage with it rather than take this frivolous and superficial approach?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I certainly would not take a frivolous approach towards the livelihoods of anyone, whether they are freelance musicians or anyone else who contributes to the health, prosperity and economy of this country. That is one of the reasons why we are so anxious to secure an agreement with the European Union and why we have been working so hard and in such a dedicated fashion in the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee. I mentioned earlier that as a result of the progress that we have made with Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič, the rights of 4 million EU citizens in the UK are now guaranteed, as are the rights of over 1 million citizens of the UK in the EU. More needs to be done to ensure that we can have a free trade agreement, but I absolutely take seriously the rights of citizens—whether they are, as I say, freelancers or others—to continue to be able to work and live freely.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
Has my right hon. Friend seen how much popular and excellent quality fresh food there is in our supermarkets with the Union flag on the packaging? Will he confirm that if the EU insists on high tariffs on food trade, where it sells us massively more than we sell it, that would be a huge opportunity for our farmers to grow and rear more for the domestic market and get back the huge amounts of market share stolen from them under the common agricultural policy?
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes three very important points. The first thing is that UK producers are doing a fantastic job in increasing production in a sustainable way. Championing the quality of UK produce is something that we should all do and recognise, whether it is Orkney cheddar or Welsh lamb, that the UK flag is a symbol that connects quality not just to our consumers but worldwide. The second point that he makes, which is absolutely right, is that the common agricultural policy has been harmful, and our escape from it will ensure both that our farmers can prosper and that our environment can improve. His third point is that we should be confident not just that we can sell more excellent produce here in the UK but that, as we emerge into the world as a global free-trading nation, new opportunities to sell our excellent produce are available to our farmers, and he is absolutely right to be optimistic.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
The Minister has acknowledged the issue of the free flow of medicines into this country. Will he respond to the urgent appeal today from the pharmaceuticals industry to find a deal, and will he accept the approaches from the European Union and do everything in his power to ensure that my constituents, like those across the country who need medicines such as insulin, will have the deal that ensures that they can rely upon it?
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
My right hon. Friend knows from our time in Cabinet together that I have nothing but the greatest possible respect and admiration for his negotiating skills and abilities. Given that we are advised that fish and state aids are the main stumbling blocks to a deal, will he draw to the attention of Monsieur Macron, the President of France, the fact that if there is no deal on fishing, there will not be any French boats fishing in British waters, and that the size of the British fishing industry is approximately 1.7% of the size of the British car and automotive industry? Finally, will my right hon. Friend remember that one of the reasons that Mrs Thatcher imposed a three-line Whip in support of the European single market Act was to stop false competition as a result of the unfair use of state aids?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for the three important points he makes. First, I am sure that the French President and others are increasingly aware of the point he makes about the consequence of no deal. Secondly, the automotive sector is vital not just to the economy of the west midlands but to the whole UK, and we need to make sure that we invest in it for the future. And his third point is right: we need to have our own state aid regime, not the European one, but we also need to make sure that it is consistent with our market principles.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
The Road Haulage Association is afraid that trade will grind to a halt if there are insufficient customs agents to help goods to cross the border in January. Some 50,000 customs agents are needed. On paper, the Government have allocated £84 million to the task of training the necessary people. I know the Minister has good attention to detail, so will he tell me how many customs agents have been trained from the allocated money?
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
What preparations are being made by the Royal Navy to provide requisite support in a potential no-deal situation to our fishery protection vessels to prevent what would then be the illegal plunder of our seas by an armada of French and Spanish trawlers?
Michael Gove
We have a series of assets to make sure that we can safeguard our waters, such as the offshore patrol vessels—the River class fishery protection vessels that are at the disposal of the Royal Navy—and other assets, including aircraft and drones. Of course, the joint maritime security centre in Portsmouth provides us with maritime domain awareness so that we can safeguard our waters.
Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP) [V]
We have 73 days to go here and businesses, deep in the middle of a pandemic, are trying their best to prepare, but there are many unanswered questions that add up to costs that Northern Ireland cannot afford. Firms and families here desperately want a deal, but we are hearing only about a blame game, brinkmanship, deflection and jingoism. People in Northern Ireland are more anxious than they have been in decades, with absolutely no sense that the Government understand that, given the misrepresentation of the agreement even in the last hour. I ask the Minister whether there is any upper limit to the damage that he thinks Northern Ireland should have to sustain for a Brexit that it has rejected at every possible opportunity.
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her points. In my statement, I made the point—I hope that she will forgive me for making it again—that we made significant progress today in the Joint Committee, thanks to the constructive approach taken by Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič. We are lucky that he and his team are so committed to making sure that the protocol works. I remind her that the protocol is there to give effect to the Belfast agreement, which is about agreement across communities, rather than a culture of grievance.
Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con)
My right hon. Friend may not have known it before December 2019, but Carshalton and Wallington residents voted to leave the European Union and are keen to see us get on and return to being an independent, free-trading global nation. Although we hope that the EU will return constructively to the table, will he confirm that, irrespective of whether a deal is struck, we will continue to go out into the world to seek free trade agreements, such as the one we recently secured with Japan?
Michael Gove
Absolutely. A cloud lifted from Carshalton and Wallington in December last year, and we were able to see at last that the people of that constituency who voted for Brexit had a representative who believed in them.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) [V]
The Government say that they just want the terms that Canada enjoys with the European Union. Last year, exports to the European Union accounted for more than 60% of Welsh trade; Holyhead alone accounts for more than 400,000 freight movements each year across the Irish sea. Wales’s relationship with the European Union is nothing like that of Canada. Do those facts not demonstrate that, for Wales, the Minister’s preferred Canada-style agreement is just not good enough?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I think that Government and Opposition Front Benchers recognise that a Canada-style agreement is entirely consistent with how people voted in the referendum, including the people of Wales, who did vote to leave. It provides us with an opportunity to trade freely with the European Union but to chart our own destiny.
Robert Largan (High Peak) (Con)
I share my right hon. Friend’s disappointment in the EU’s continued intransigence. It is right that we do everything we can to prepare for all outcomes on 31 December, but it remains the case that it is in the best interests of both the UK and the EU to reach a long-term trade deal. Can he confirm that if the EU does shift its position and return to the negotiating table, the Government stand ready to talk and that we are prepared to consider individual deals or agreements on specific areas such as haulage and security?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I was not party to the telephone call that took place earlier between Michel Barnier and Lord Frost, but if it does presage a change of approach on the part of the EU and a proper intensification, no one would welcome that more than I do. It would mean that we could make progress, but obviously the proof of the pudding remains. On my hon. Friend’s second point, if we leave on Australian-style terms, we will be negotiating and discussing with our friends and neighbours to ensure that we have effective interim arrangements, particularly in areas such as freight transport.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
I am pleased that, at least on the face of it, the Government appear to be standing up to the bullying tactics by Brussels and have indicated that we will not leave on the basis of an agreement that compromises our sovereignty or our independence. On the Joint Committee, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned two things. First, he said that the Government had outlined what steps they had taken to deal with the new agrifood arrangements. Secondly, he said that the Government now understood the EU’s position on monitoring those arrangements. Will he tell us whether the EU has agreed that the goods at risk will not include those goods that stay in Northern Ireland and that those goods will therefore not be taxed or subject to controls? Secondly, has the EU demanded that the implementation of that monitoring will require EU officials to be present in Northern Ireland?
Michael Gove
On the first point, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, but I think that the EU has a very good understanding of exactly the points we make. On the second point, we want to have a pragmatic approach whereby the UK is responsible for the administration of these controls, but we want to provide the EU with reassurance wherever possible.
Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con)
I voted to leave in the referendum, and I strongly agree with my right hon. Friend that we have to have the right deal, but does he agree, given the economic challenges and the common security threats that we are facing from Russia, China and the middle east, that a deal is still the best outcome for both the UK and EU?
Michael Gove
Absolutely. The broader point that my hon. Friend makes about the need for solidarity among democracies at a time of increasing insecurity across the globe is an important one. We cannot agree to a deal at any price—we have been very clear about that—but the broader context that he provides is very helpful.
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
My very first question in this place was to ask the then Prime Minister whether she would consider separately negotiating access to Erasmus and Horizon, which did not need to be part of the wider agreement, because of the risk of a deal falling down. Now that the deal has fallen down and all predictions about this incompetent Government have come true, will the Government consider a separate track to negotiate Erasmus and Horizon entry—which they can do and which the European Union was willing to do—so that our students and universities can have security on this issue?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and we would like to continue participation in both those programmes, but obviously that depends to a significant extent on conversations that are still going on.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
Can my right hon. Friend elaborate a bit more on his point about state aid? Is there state aid that we wish to give to UK companies that we were not able to do under the EU regime, or is the dispute more about the retaliation mechanism, as he put it in his statement?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is significantly about the retaliation procedures, but it is also about the mode of governance by which we would report and notify the state aids that we might wish to issue.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
The Prime Minister promised the nation an “oven-ready” deal, and it was avowedly going to be
“one of the easiest in human history”
to negotiate. Instead, this Conservative Government have shown that they are happy to rip up an agreement only months after signing it, thereby breaking international law, and they are now hurtling us towards a disastrous no-deal Brexit. So, on behalf of the Prime Minister, would the right hon. Gentleman like to apologise to the British people for having made false promises? Will he tell us what changes he will be making to his approach to prove that the UK can be taken seriously and act in good faith, despite the best efforts of this incompetent Government?
Michael Gove
First, as the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge, since last Friday, since the Prime Minister’s statement and since the preparation of my statement earlier, we have seen a welcome indication of movement on the part of the EU. I think that those who were prepared to criticise the Prime Minister on Friday and over the weekend should perhaps, in fairness and with appropriate humility, recognise that he has been standing up for Britain, and therefore no apology is required.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
As the clock ticks down, the pressure will undoubtedly mount on the British Government and on the EU government. It would be reassuring to hear from my right hon. Friend some assurance that he will not go wobbly and reach for any deal on offer at that time just because it is on offer, and that as the likelihood of not securing a free trade agreement with the EU rises, he and his Department are working on a plan of retaliatory fiscal, tax and government state aid actions that could then be put in place.
Michael Gove
First, may I say that I wish I had my hon. Friend’s lean physique, because I am afraid that bits of me are wobbly? That is not the case with him. On the substance, he is right: we both need to be firm in these negotiations, as the Prime Minister has been, and ready for any eventuality. That means that if we do go to Australian terms, we need to use the freedoms that that affords.
Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)
In 2019, £300 billion of UK exports went to the EU, which was 43% of our entire total, and not even 2% went to Australia. This is the Minister who told us that these would be the easiest negotiations ever, but businesses in Southwark tell me that they have lost patience with the Government, that uncertainty is costing them and that their employees face losing their jobs as a result of his failure to secure a deal. The simple question is: why do my constituents face losing their jobs as a result of his inability to do his?
Michael Gove
I think that is what we call a leading question, but the hon. Gentleman misattributes the earlier quotation—I think someone else, rather than me, made that point. More broadly, however, prosperity for his constituents and mine depends on making sure that we embrace the free trading, outward-looking approach that the Prime Minister has outlined. That is the best way of making sure that can export not just to Europe and Australia, but across the world.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
At the Munich security conference last year, the term “westlessness” was first coined, meaning an absence of what the west now stands for, what we believe in and what we are willing to defend. I hope my right hon. Friend agrees that European defence and security must sit above the politics of Europe, because the threats are increasing, no longer recognising state borders or indeed membership of international institutions, but the Galileo project illustrates how EU politics is weakening collective European resolve. I hope he will reconfirm our commitment to joint European security, not least through NATO.
Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes a very important point; NATO is the keystone of our defence architecture. More broadly, I hope that whatever occurs in the next couple of months as we resolve our economic relationship with the EU, the strong bilateral and multilateral ties we have with European allies, from Estonia to France, remain and are strengthened in order to make sure that the west is strong and democracy is reinforced.
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) [V]
More than 40% of UK external trade is with the EU27, whereas about 10% of the EU27’s trade is with the UK, so clearly the UK badly needs a deal. If we end up with a World Trade Organisation rules outcome, there still needs to be agreement in the Joint Committee about goods at risk, so will the right hon. Gentleman give businesses and households in Northern Ireland a firm guarantee that in no circumstances will any tariffs be levied down the Irish sea interface?
Michael Gove
Yes, and that was an admirably Unionist intervention from the hon. Gentleman .
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
Businesses in Dudley South and across the Black Country trade with countries in every part of the world. Further to the earlier question from my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich East (Nicola Richards), what support is available for businesses to understand the changes to customs and tax rules, so that they can prepare to take advantage of those opportunities as we become an independent trading nation again?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is the case that we are intensifying our communications campaign. On the Government Digital Service gov.uk website, the transition page outlines some of the information required. The Prime Minister and I are meeting business representative organisations tomorrow in order to reinforce that, but I would be very happy to talk to him and other colleagues in the west midlands, in our manufacturing heartland, to reinforce exactly what it is that we can provide businesses to support them to take advantage of these new opportunities.
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
As the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster knows, his earlier pessimism that the talks had broken down was misjudged, because in fact we know that, while he has been on his feet, the European Union has said that it is happy to talk about any legal texts. Therefore, his pessimism that we were headed towards an Australian-style deal was misjudged, but can he just confirm for my constituents why he would be so pessimistic about an Australian deal, because his own Brexit analysis in 2018 said that such a deal would cost 8% of GDP, or £2,500 per person in layman’s terms. Are those figures still correct? Is that the price of this failure?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point. She is absolutely right. As a result of the Prime Minister standing firm in defiance of criticism from some in this House, it appears—it appears—that, at this stage, the EU has moved in a way that intensifies talks and sees legal texts being exchanged. I sincerely hope that that is the case. We will find out more in the days ahead. As for the analysis that she quotes, that was not mine.
Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
My right hon. Friend recognised earlier the importance of, if at all possible, obtaining continuing arrangements for security co-operation and access to the very important Europol, Eurojust and related databases. All of those matters require an agreement on data sharing, as does much access for the financial services business. What specific advance has there been in relation to data adequacy and data sharing?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we need to secure data adequacy in order to have the best possible set of arrangements for business and for security. It is an autonomous process, but we believe that the EU should grant us adequacy on the basis of the information that we have provided. More broadly, there are a variety of security and law enforcement tools to which we believe we will have access, but, because of European Court of Justice jurisdiction, there are one or two that remain difficult.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP) [V]
We have heard the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster basically blame the EU for the breakdown in the talks, but the EU has not walked away from the talks despite the Government setting out a course of action that will break international law and the withdrawal agreement that was reached less than a year ago. Has the right hon. Gentleman considered that his Government bear responsibility for any collapse in negotiations, given their obligations to respect the rule of international law?
Michael Gove
I know the point that the hon. Gentleman is trying to make, but I think that it is misconceived, and recent events underline that.
Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con)
The Government should be congratulated on their trade deal with Japan, the world’s third largest economy. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that, irrespective of a deal with the EU, the UK will continue to pursue trade opportunities with the world’s biggest and fastest-growing economies, including those that might benefit exporters in Stockton South?
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the credit should go to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade. She has not just concluded a free trade agreement with Japan, but has made progress on free trade agreements with Australia, on our accession to the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, and on other opportunities for businesses, including those in Stockton South, for which he is such a brilliant advocate.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
I have been listening patiently for the past hour and I am still not certain whether we are heading for a no-deal Brexit or for a deal Brexit. Business always says that it wants certainty. What certainty can the right hon. Gentleman offer business at this very late stage now for 1 January 2021?
Michael Gove
The certainty that I can offer is that we will be out of the customs union and out of the single market, and that as a result we will be able to take our place as an independent free trading nation. Businesses in Bath and elsewhere know what it is that they need to do. That is certainty. It is very different from the proposition that the Liberal Democrats put forward at the last general election, which was a second referendum or a third referendum—I have no idea how many referendums the Liberal Democrats wanted. One thing I do know is that they returned fewer than a dozen MPs, which shows what the country thought of that.
Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con) [V]
If what my right hon. Friend has told the House today is accurate—that the EU has realised at the eleventh hour that it is in its best interests to reach an accommodation with the United Kingdom and it can no longer dictate to this country—can he tell me what will happen with those businesses that have not prepared for the end of the transition period? The permanent secretary of his Department told the Public Accounts Committee last week that 36% of our small businesses had not made preparations. Has that figure now been reduced? What further communications are planned to ensure that all businesses are ready for the end of the year, whether we get a deal or not? May I say that I very much hope we do get a deal?
Michael Gove
I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend: we do very much want a deal. We hope that developments this afternoon are moving us in the right direction. She is also absolutely on the button when she says that, with or without a free trade agreement, businesses need to prepare. The number that are getting prepared is increasing all the time, and it is my Department’s responsibility, along with HMRC, to make sure they have the information they require, whatever happens. Outside the single market and the customs union, there will be new procedures. I look forward to working with her and others on the Public Accounts Committee to ensure that we communicate the detail required through our new intensified campaign.
Mr Speaker
In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I suspend the House for a few minutes.
Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee Meeting
Michael Gove Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)
The next meeting of the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee will take place in London on 19 October 2020, with delegations attending in person and by video conference.
The meeting will be co-chaired by me and vice-president of the European Commission, Mr Maroš Šefčovič.
The agenda will include four items:
Introduction and opening remarks from co-chairs
Stocktake of recent specialised Committee meetings
Future specialised Committee meetings
Update on withdrawal agreement implementation
Citizens’ rights
Joint implementation report
Progress on Joint Committee decision on triangulation
Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland
Progress on Joint Committee decisions foreseen by the protocol
Progress on Joint Committee decision on correction of errors and omissions
Dispute settlement—discussion on progress on Joint Committee decision on the establishment of a list of arbitrators
AOB
Concluding remarks
The UK delegation will include me and the Paymaster General, my right hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt).
Representatives from the Northern Ireland Executive have been invited to form part of the UK delegation.
[HCWS514]