Oral Answers to Questions

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)]

19. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of progress on the AUKUS strategic partnership.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

The UK is fully committed to the AUKUS partnership. On 26 September, the Secretary of State hosted the first AUKUS Defence Ministers’ meeting outside the US. During that discussion, he provided direction and guidance to accelerate our taking advantage of the opportunities that this landmark partnership presents to us. I refer Members to the Defence Ministers’ meeting joint communication for more details on progress.

[Michelle Scrogham]

The Secretary of State already knows how proud we are in Barrow and Furness to be building our Astute and Dreadnought submarines, and to be part of the AUKUS programme. I know from our discussions that this Government understand that we need a cross-departmental approach to support the delivery of the AUKUS deal in Barrow and Furness. Will he comment on the importance of that broad approach, which aims to make Barrow an even better place in which to live, work and raise a family, and will he meet me to discuss that further?

[Luke Pollard]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. Both the Secretary of State and I have visited Barrow to see not only the incredible innovation in the shipyard there, but the amazing workforce who are putting together the nuclear submarines. As my hon. Friend knows, the Government are indeed working across Departments, and with the local council and BAE Systems, to invest heavily not only in the development of the shipyard and the submarine facilities, but in the community that they need. I would be very happy to meet her and colleagues to discuss this issue further.

[Chris McDonald]

The most recent AUKUS Defence Ministers communiqué outlined an investment in industrial capacity, including £7 billion from this Government, and the Royal United Services Institute has said that the winner in any prolonged war will be the country with the most secure industrial base. Will the Minister expand on his answer to the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) and describe how this investment in our defence capabilities will strengthen supply chains in places such as Billingham in my constituency?

[Luke Pollard]

It is certainly true that armies march on their stomach, and in the event of a larger conflict, it will be the strength of our industrial base that determines the victor. That is why we are working together with industry to deliver a new defence industrial strategy, in particular to strengthen our resilience and innovation and to harness expertise, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I would be happy to meet him to discuss how we can make the most of those opportunities.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

The Minister will know that our AUKUS partners, the United States and Australia, have recently held bilateral discussions with South Korea, Japan, New Zealand and Canada about becoming part of the so-called pillar 2 of AUKUS, and I wonder what bilateral discussions the UK has had on this.

[Luke Pollard]

There is an opportunity to work with many of our partners internationally on pillar 2 opportunities. Those conversations have been taking place at official level within the Ministry of Defence and at political level, and we are continuing to work to bring those forward because if we want to buy the high-end war-winning kit that we need, the best way of doing that is to work with our partners to ensure not only that we have it but that our allies are able to make the most of it as well.

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

In the light of the increasing geopolitical threats that we face, can the Minister give an update on the adequacy and resilience of the computer chip supply chain that backs up the UK military?

[Luke Pollard]

The hon. Member is right to highlight the fragility of the international supply chain in that area. It is very important that Governments in the west, and in the NATO alliance in particular, are able to onshore production and to “friendly-shore” production—no matter how awkward that term is—to ensure that we are less exposed to threats. Colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade, as well as MOD colleagues, are looking into that. More work is needed in this area, but we are acting on it.

[Chris Ward (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven) (Lab)]

5. What progress he has made on implementing the recommendations of the LGBT veterans independent review.

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[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

The strategic defence review will consider all aspects of defence so that the United Kingdom is both secure at home and strong abroad. It will ensure that defence is central to both the security and the economic growth and prosperity of our homeland. The SDR will set out a deliverable and affordable plan within the trajectory of spending 2.5% of GDP on defence.

[Chi Onwurah]

The Department’s future capability innovation programme accelerates innovation in operational capability. Given its success in delivering rapidly prototyped drones to Ukraine, and in growing the UK drone sector as part of the process, how will the Minister make sure that the lessons learned from the programme are adopted across defence procurement, especially in areas such as cyber-security and artificial intelligence, to ensure that innovation is rapidly operationalised and that a higher proportion of the work goes to British small and medium-sized enterprises?

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her question and for championing the country’s tech sectors. She is absolutely right that the experience we are seeing in Ukraine means that we need to innovate faster, have more spiral development and bring more talent into these sectors. We have a good record of doing so, not just on drones but on AI and directed energy systems, where we have our own capabilities. We are now working with NATO, Five Eyes and AUKUS partners to ensure that we learn from that and to make sure that it is not just our big defence primes but the entire supply chain, including small businesses and start-ups, that benefits.

[David Pinto-Duschinsky]

It was a huge pleasure to welcome my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to the Nepalese community centre in Burnt Oak this summer to talk to Gurkha veterans about the issues they face. Does the Minister agree that the Gurkha Regiment has an important role to play in the future of the UK’s defence? Will he outline what steps the Ministry of Defence is taking to address the failures of the previous Government in supporting Gurkha veterans, and will he meet me to discuss these issues?

[Luke Pollard]

The Government greatly value the contribution that the Gurkhas continue to make in supporting the UK’s security and defence, and we take our responsibility to Gurkha veterans very seriously. The Government remain committed to supporting them and their families during and after their service with the British Army. The Minister for Veterans and People is shortly to meet the ambassador of Nepal and Gurkha veteran representatives to continue that work.

[Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con)]

As the Minister will know, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary industrial dispute is putting our national security at risk. Does he think it is a betrayal of our defence that Labour puts generous settlements for their rail paymasters over the small number of seafarers who keep us safe?

[Luke Pollard]

I think the hon. Gentleman can do better than that, to be honest. It is important that we support not only those who serve in all our forces, but those in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Discussions are ongoing to try to resolve the industrial action that started under the last Government, and I want to thank all those who serve in the Royal Navy, in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and in civilian roles. It is the whole team that matters, and they all matter to this Government.

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

Many of my constituents work in the defence sector, with RNAS Yeovilton based in Glastonbury and Somerton, Thales operating from Templecombe, and Leonardo based nearby. However, the “Delivering the Defence Workforce of the Future” report revealed that 77% of key decision makers and influencers in the sector believe that a shortage of science, technology, engineering and maths skills will deteriorate the UK’s defence capabilities. What steps will the Minister take to address this shortage and to secure the UK’s defence?

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful for the contribution of south-west defence companies to our national defence. As a south-west MP, I know it is important.

If we are to have sustainable defence, we need not only our armed forces but our supply chain to invest in skills on a sustainable, long-term basis. Short-term contracts do not contribute to that, which is one of the reasons why, as part of our defence industrial strategy and the strategic defence review, we are looking longer term at how to make sure we have the skills we need for both those who serve and those who support those who serve. There is a lot of work to do in this area.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Stuart Anderson (South Shropshire) (Con)]

As a rifleman, I know the importance of training for military operations; it ensures readiness, lethality and survivability. In addition to the recent announcement that there is no firm timeline for spending 2.5% of GDP, possible cuts to the training budget have been mentioned. Will the Minister confirm that there will be no cuts to the training budget in either this financial year or the next?

[Luke Pollard]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place; it is a great job being shadow Minister for the Armed Forces, as I know. If I may say so politely, the reason there is severe financial pressure on us is that this Government were left with a £22 billion financial black hole by his party. Let me be clear: supporting our armed forces to train to be the best, to deter aggression and to defeat it if necessary is a priority for this Government. Despite the economic circumstances his party passed on to mine, we are taking steps to ensure that our armed forces have what they need.

[Jess Asato (Lowestoft) (Lab)]

7. What steps he is taking to support veterans.

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[Mr Speaker]

He’s far too grand for it!

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

Let me be absolutely clear that GCAP is an important programme, as the Prime Minister has stated. That is why the Defence Secretary hosted his Japanese and Italian counterparts within weeks of taking office. Progress continues, alongside the strategic defence review, with more than 3,500 people employed on future combat air.

[Jesse Norman]

I apologise if I was hypnotised by your gaze, Mr Speaker.

I worry about the Government’s grip on strategy all together. First, they have given away the Chagos islands before the strategic defence review. Now they are putting at risk the global combat air programme by including it within the SDR. Is the Minister aware of the extreme efforts that our partners in Italy and Japan, visited by the Defence Committee in the last Parliament, have made to discharge their side of the bargain—in Japan’s case for the first time since the second world war in international procurement outside the USA? What measures is he taking to reassure them about the centrality and importance of the programme?

[Luke Pollard]

The Defence Secretary has clear instructions from the manifesto that Britain is to be better defended with a Labour Government. That is why within two weeks of taking office the Prime Minister had commissioned Lord Robertson to conduct the strategic defence review. The Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary and I have all made it clear that GCAP is an important programme. Not only do we have an amazing workforce working on it but I am pleased to tell the House that last month the UK ratified the GCAP convention, the international treaty that sets up the GCAP International Government Organisation. We will continue to make progress.

[Chris Evans (Caerphilly) (Lab/Co-op)]

GCAP will contribute £37 billion to the economy, but the Minister will know that the SDR being under review has led to a number of stories appearing in the press that the programme is about to cancelled. As someone who once represented General Dynamics, which built Ajax, I know that a belief that something will not happen tends to cause problems within the local and national economies. As the SDR goes ahead, will the Minister ensure that this House and the press will be kept up to date on how GCAP is developing?

[Luke Pollard]

GCAP is an important programme, and there will be further updates in relation to it as the SDR reports in the first half of next year. In the meantime, we continue to progress the project; indeed, work is continuing across a range of necessary and important defence projects, because we do not want the SDR to be an excuse to slow down progress. At a time when our troops and allies are operating in difficult and contested environments, we need to ensure that we invest in the kit that we need. That is what the SDR will set out: the future shape of the UK armed forces.

[David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)]

11. What plans he has for future levels of spending on defence research and development.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

Defence R&D is critical to maximising the operational advantage of our armed forces. In an increasingly volatile and technology-driven world, the Department remains committed to investing in cutting-edge science, technology and innovation. Just after my appointment to the Department, I was delighted to visit the commando training centre in the hon. Member’s constituency to see the innovative training and capabilities of the future commando force.

[David Reed]

Frontier technologies such as artificial intelligence are already shaping every domain across the modern battlefield. To stay ahead of our adversaries and keep our service personnel and allies safe, it is imperative that we have the domestic ability to develop these technologies. As supercomputing is essential for the development of advanced AI systems, it was disappointing to see the Labour Government pull the plug on the University of Edinburgh’s £800 million exascale supercomputing project. From listening to the Secretary of State and his team, I know that they understand the need to invest in AI for defence, so will the Minister please inform the House how the Department intends to create these technologies when his party’s demand signal to academia and industry appears to be wavering?

[Luke Pollard]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to the House. As a fellow Devon MP, I believe it is important that we have a strong voice on defence, so I am grateful for his question. The new Government have been very clear that we see AI playing a really important role not just in defence, but across a whole range of technologies. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology is leading on much of that work in his Department. AI and related technologies are being looked at in relation to the strategic defence review, where we need not only to upscale the innovative work that is already being done by UK technologies, but to provide the skills and the supply chain to ensure that we can continue to deliver, learning the lessons from what we are seeing in Ukraine, in particular.

[Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Con)]

Ministers repeatedly state their commitment to reaching a spending level of 2.5% of GDP on defence, but they simply will not tell the House when they will do so. It is no surprise that we are already hearing reports of potential cuts to programmes in defence R&D. Will the Minister simply rule out cuts to defence R&D and science spending in this financial year and the next?

[Luke Pollard]

As a Government, we are committed to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. We have set out clearly that that will be announced at a future fiscal event. I must say that I am a wee bit disappointed, because I would have expected the Opposition Front Benchers to stand up and apologise for the mess that they have left not just the armed forces, but the wider economy. The Government are committed to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. We are committed to investing in our armed forces, and we will continue to do so.

[Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)]

May I concur with your comments about the late Alex Salmond, Mr Speaker?

The exchange of research and development between Ukraine and the UK is vital to improve the security of both countries. What steps is the Department taking to learn from the innovative technologies from the battlefield to develop shared collaborative capabilities?

[Luke Pollard]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on her appointment as a shadow spokesperson. I was in Ukraine a few weeks ago leading a trade delegation of British companies looking at precisely the issue of how we can learn from the battlefield experience of Ukraine, making sure that for the new technologies needed there, we can invest in the supply chain—not only in the UK, but in Ukraine—to make it more resilient. A lot of work is ongoing in this area, but we will need to do more. If we are to defeat Putin’s illegal invasion, we will need not only to restock our own supply chain, but to accelerate the provision of innovative tech to Ukraine. That is what this Government are committed to doing.

[Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Ruth Jones (Newport West and Islwyn) (Lab)]

T8. Under an agreement inherited from the last Government, a system remains in place allowing for the licensing of trail hunting on land owned by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation. It is welcome news that that licence issuing has been paused while the agreement is under ministerial review, but in the light of the widespread recognition that trail hunting is often a smokescreen for illegal hunting, will the Minister meet me and other concerned MPs to discuss the permanent revocation of that agreement, in line with the Government’s manifesto ban on trail hunting?

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend—she and I have campaigned on many similar issues for quite some time. I would like to make it clear that no licences to trail hunt on Ministry of Defence land have been granted for the 2024-25 hunting season. The Department is considering its position alongside other Government Departments, and we hope to have an update soon, but I am very happy to meet my hon. Friend in the meantime.

[Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)]

T3. Many members of the armed forces in my constituency are living in sub-par MOD housing that is cold, damp and mould-ridden. How is the Minister ensuring that all MOD properties are fit to live in?

[Luke Murphy (Basingstoke) (Lab)]

T10. I am immensely proud of the armed forces, both those serving and veterans, who live in my constituency, but I do worry for the future given the recruitment crisis that we inherited from the previous Government. What steps are this Government taking to tackle the recruitment crisis, in particular to attract diverse skills such as in cyber?

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful for the question, because we know that there is a recruitment and retention crisis in the UK armed forces. It is precisely for that reason that the Defence Secretary set out at the Labour party conference a series of changes, including scrapping 100 outdated recruitment policies and creating a new direct entry route for cyber. There is a lot more work to be done in this area, and the Department will be making further announcements in due course.

[Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)]

T4. The 2,000 lb bombs dropped on innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon led to the heinous and unimaginable scenes we saw over the weekend of newborn babies being killed and young children being burned alive. These bombs are being dropped by F-35 fighter jets, and we supply parts for F-35 fighter jets. When will we stop doing that and adhere to international conventions?

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[David Taylor (Hemel Hempstead) (Lab)]

In May, I was privileged to join a group called Help99 in driving some pick-up trucks and other military vehicles to Kyiv

for the use of Ukrainian soldiers on the frontline. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can make it easier for such groups to deliver vehicles, which are so desperately needed?

[Luke Pollard]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and parliamentary colleagues in all parties for the work they are doing in their constituencies to support our friends in Ukraine. I would be very happy to meet him to see what we can do to support their work further, because we will support Ukraine for as long as it takes.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

Points of Order

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I first welcome you to your place? Secondly, I have had the benefit of two ministerial visits by Government Members, both of whom I respect, without the courtesy of letting me know. I have spoken independently to both of them—the right hon. Member for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough (John Healey) and the hon. Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard)—and they have both assured me that it was an error in process that will be corrected. I just wanted to make sure the whole of the Treasury Bench and the new Government followed the normal protocols and ensured that all Members of the House were duly informed of visits.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Defence Secretary and I have spoken to the hon. Gentleman and apologised for the administrative oversight. I assure him and other Members that it will not happen again.

[Dr Kieran Mullan (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the statement on prison capacity, the issue of the Friday release of prisoners was raised. I recognise it was raised by hon. Members sincerely and with good intentions. However, private Members’ Bills are an incredibly important part of the work of this House, something we all recognise and value, and during the previous Parliament the former Member for Barrow and Furness steered through, with cross-party support, the Offenders (Day of Release from Detention) Bill, to stop the routine release of prisoners on a Friday. I seek your advice, Madam Deputy Speaker, on how we can ensure that the record accurately reflects the incredibly important work on that private Member’s Bill, which contributed to that issue and was not mentioned in the statement earlier.

Oral Answers to Questions

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Everyone who serves our country should live in a decent home, but last month, the independent Kerslake commission’s report on armed forces housing found that the majority of service personnel are dissatisfied with housing conditions, and very dissatisfied with the maintenance and repair service. One in three service personnel still lives in the lowest-grade service accommodation. The Government’s words simply do not match their action. Can the Minister honestly look service families in the eye and say that military housing under this Government is good enough?

[James Cartlidge]

The debate we have been having is about investment. We put in an additional £400 million, which means that we have been able to overhaul thousands of properties, performing upgrades to deal with damp and mould and putting in new heating systems. That costs money. Our commitment to 2.5% means that we will get an extra £4 billion over the next decade. Armed forces personnel know that Labour cannot possibly deliver that, because it will not match our commitment to 2.5%.

Ukraine and Georgia

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for securing this urgent question. It is 811 days since Putin began the full-scale illegal invasion of Ukraine. Russia has opened a renewed offensive in the Kharkiv region, but Ukrainians are continuing to fight with huge courage. The UK is totally united in support of Ukraine. The shadow Defence Secretary and shadow Foreign Secretary were in Kyiv for the last two days, and reaffirmed that Labour’s commitment to Ukraine is ironclad.

If Putin wins, he will not stop at Ukraine. That is why the Government have had, and will continue to have, Labour’s fullest support for military aid to Ukraine and for reinforcing NATO’s allies across eastern Europe. Every commitment of UK military aid since Putin invaded has had Labour’s fullest support, and that will continue. With a general election later this year, there may be a change in Government, but there will be no change to Britain’s resolve in standing with Ukraine, confronting Russian aggression, and pursuing Putin for his war crimes.

On Georgia, we are deeply concerned by the increased pressure on civil society freedoms and by the intimidation of protesters. The proposed draft law is not in line with democratic values, and risks taking Georgia away from the Euro-Atlantic aspirations of the Georgian people. What discussions has the Minister had with the US, the EU and other regional partners on the latest developments in Georgia? Is the UK putting Georgia on the agenda for the G7 meeting in Italy and the upcoming European Political Community meeting? What steps is he taking with our allies to counter Russian disinformation and hybrid activities in Georgia and across the Caucasus, the western Balkans and the rest of Europe?

What support has been given to help Ukraine build up its air defences to stop air and drone strikes on critical infrastructure, especially in the Kharkiv region? How much of the money committed to the international fund for Ukraine has been spent and how much is left to be spent? The UK will stand with the Ukrainians for as long as it takes for them to win.

[Leo Docherty]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman pointed out the remarkable courage of our Ukrainian friends in their efforts to counter the new axis of advance in the Kharkiv region, and we sincerely welcome the continued cross-party support for Ukraine.

The hon. Gentleman expressed a concern, which we share, about the new law passed in Georgia. That is on the agenda of our discussions with allies; it is beyond my scope to comment on what might be on the agenda for the G7 or the EPC, but it is certainly an issue of concern that we discuss with trusted partners, and we have done so very frequently recently.

A huge amount of institutional effort from our side is going into countering disinformation across the entire region, as well as in the western Balkans and central Asia—the former so-called satellite states of Russia, which have a particular vulnerability to disinformation from the Kremlin. I will not go into detail about that effort, but it is a significant piece of work and will continue to be important.

The hon. Gentleman asked a good question about air defence. We have gifted thousands of units of air defence to Ukraine. There will surely be more to come. The uplift in financial support that we have announced will clearly be an issue for the Ukrainians through our gifting programme, and air defence will feature heavily in that.

War Graves Week

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a privilege to speak in this debate, particularly as we approach the 80th anniversary of D-day in June and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission’s Legacy of Liberation campaign. I look forward to contributions from Members on all sides of the House in this debate. During War Graves Week, as always, we remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect others and the freedoms that we enjoy today. It is our duty to tell their stories and to honour their service.

I begin by echoing and joining the Defence Secretary in paying tribute to the work of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and its staff not only in the UK, but around the world. Our war graves and memorials must be properly protected, cared for and respected. For over a century, the commission has done so much at home and abroad to honour the men and women of the UK and the Commonwealth who lost their lives in the two world wars. Thanks to the commission’s work, sites of remembrance for 1.7 million individuals are properly cared for. It is the custodian of our shared global history as well as of our local history.

I would like to pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for their work as commissioners, representing Parliament on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I think their work reminds us of the genuine cross-party support that the commission enjoys and will continue to enjoy.

In my home city of Plymouth, our shared history is told by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission at a number of cemeteries, including Weston Mill, Efford, Ford Park and the Plymouth naval memorial on Plymouth Hoe. That naval memorial, where I know a number of Members from both sides have attended services, remembers all those lost at sea. This year, we remember the 70th anniversary of the unveiling by Princess Margaret of the extension for those we lost in world war two. I pay tribute to the staff of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission who keep that memorial, and all memorials at home and abroad, in such a proud and decent condition. Each name on the war memorial was a person with a family, hopes and dreams, who made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation.

One particular cemetery that sticks in my mind is not run by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. It is a war grave in Wantage gardens on North Road West in Plymouth, which has the headstones of child sailors to tell their story. It is called the No Place memorial, and it is a memorial for Plymouth’s fallen heroes. It is a small graveyard, and many of those it remembers were 15, 16 or 17 when they died. One of them, Edward Pike, was just 15 when he died on 16 November 1894 on HMS Lion. Through that memorial, we keep the flame of their memory alive, and what strikes me most about that memorial is their ranks. All the ranks of those who died are on the memorial, and Edward’s rank was “Boy”. Telling his story and telling the story of all the other people alongside him in that cemetery is a way of not only remembering that sacrifice, but keeping that flame alive, as well as the reasons that he and others went to sea.

As someone who represents a naval city, I had the privilege of attending the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire for the unveiling of the submariner memorial in 2022. Almost 6,000 submariners have lost their lives in the 120 years since the submarine service was formed, and as the son of a submariner, this is particularly close to my heart. I thank the staff of the National Memorial Arboretum for all they do. They welcome 300,000 visitors a year to their 400 memorials, including over 20,000 young people. Just as we on both sides encourage Members to join the armed forces parliamentary scheme, may I encourage them to go to the National Memorial Arboretum? It is a profoundly moving place to remember people who have given the ultimate sacrifice.

[James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

I am glad the hon. Member is so proud of the National Arboretum Memorial at Alrewas. He may not know—the House may not know—that Mr Speaker is currently considering the possibility of having a parliamentary memorial there. I have been on the committee considering it, and we are very nearly at the stage of recommending one particular stone to the Speaker. I hope that Members will very soon be able to go to the National Arboretum Memorial and see a memorial to parliamentarians who gave their lives.

[Luke Pollard]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention, and I think that telling our story, and telling the story of all those who served and gave their lives for the freedoms we enjoy, is time well spent. For anyone who has not been to the National Memorial Arboretum, it is a visit worth paying to hear the stories and to see the way in which different units from different parts of our armed forces remember those who fell in different ways. It really is a very special place.

It is vital that we support the efforts of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to reach out to communities, particularly to engage with younger generations to pass on our history as the world wars recede further into the past. We commend the commission for making education and outreach a key priority in its latest—very good—strategy. I am reminded of the fantastic interactive events organised for young people in Plymouth for the 80th anniversary of the Blitz, as well as tours and talks across the country during this War Graves Week. I also encourage Members to share the library of free learning resources on the commission website, including guides on how to research relatives and other Commonwealth casualties. Looking forward to the future, I welcome the commission’s strategy towards 2039, not least for the serious thought that has been given to how to engage young people with new technology in a digital age.

As we mark War Graves Week, we must recognise and honour fully the regiments and the troops drawn from across the Commonwealth, from Africa, Asia and the Caribbean, and remember the great contributions and sacrifice from so many of them that helped forge modern Britain and the freedoms we enjoy today. As the Commonwealth War Graves Commission found in its 2021 report on the historical inequalities in commemoration, an estimated 45,000 to 54,000 casualties, predominantly Indian, east and west African, Egyptian and Somali personnel, are or were commemorated unequally. I want to praise the work of our shadow Foreign Secretary my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) who spoke out about this in his documentary “The Unremembered” in 2019 to make the case that everyone who served in our military, regardless of background and where they came from, should be remembered for the sacrifice they made.

Finally, I make one further point. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission does superb work and remembers people whose graves are on land but its remit does not extend to those who died at sea. As Devonport’s MP and coming from a naval family, I want to place it on record that those who died at sea and have no resting place other than the ocean should also be remembered in War Graves Week.

In 2018 I raised concerns about the second world war wrecks in the east Java sea, in particular HMS Exeter, a Devonport-based world war two heavy cruiser that had been looted and scavenged. As a war grave, HMS Exeter —and indeed HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Electra, HMS Encounter, and Australian and Dutch ships that went down in the battle with the Japanese navy there —should be a final place of rest, but those ships have been scavenged and in the case of HMS Exeter almost completely removed from the seabed.

[James Gray]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point about these ships that went down just off Indonesia; some 4,800 people died on board and they are not commemorated at the site of their death at all—they are the only service people who are not. The same incidentally applies to those who died in Dogger Bank, where minerals are now being lifted out, greatly risking interfering with the people who terribly sadly died there. There is an argument for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to at least consider looking again at war graves at sea.

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful for that intervention and the way in which the hon. Gentleman remembers those who died in the Dogger Bank.

In 2008 HMS Kent placed a memorial next to where HMS Exeter went down. There are ways of remembering those who died at sea as well as protecting wrecks. We could look at how our allies, the United States of America, Australia and the Netherlands for example, do things slightly differently. But we should be making the case that the stories of all should be told regardless of whether they died on land or at sea and that there is a place for that. We are seeing that in the debates around war graves; it is a really important aspect of this that we remember these people, and the war memorial I spoke about on Plymouth Hoe remembers those who died at sea as well as on land. It is important we remember all of them.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

On that point, the House is aware of my interest in marine archaeology. I have asked Ministers this question repeatedly, and I think they are correct in saying that the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 and the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 afford protection to those lost at sea.

[Luke Pollard]

I am grateful for that intervention. I am not certain that this is the precise moment when I should be going into the finer details of wreck protection and the debate around that, but certainly in War Graves Week we need to be telling the stories of all who served and all who died, and that is an important part of what the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and other groups are doing. It is worth placing on record our recognition of that work in this debate.

Today and always we remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect others. Service in our armed forces is the ultimate public service. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission helps strengthen the bond between those who serve and the country they serve to protect. Labour is fully committed to building on this if given the opportunity of being in government later this year.

Draft Armed Forces (Court Martial) (Amendment) Rules 2024

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2024 General Committees

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Opposition have no major problems with these proposed amendments to the armed forces rules, but I have a few questions for the Minister in relation to them. I think we all agree that we want a service justice system that works effectively, that can investigate and prosecute, and that has outcomes people trust, as well as one in which people can come forward with complaints. In that respect, the amendments that the Minister proposes seem eminently sensible.

My first question relates to the changes proposed to rule 32—persons ineligible for membership—which is on page 3 of the rules. A person is ineligible to serve on a court martial if they served in the same unit as the offender at any point from the commission of the offence, but they might have previously served with that offender in a unit for a long period of time. Is there a point before the commission of the offence when having served in the same unit would also make them ineligible to sit on the court martial? It seems to me that, at some point, there might be a longevity of relationship, and I wonder whether that is captured by any other provision or whether that is an area that the Minister could come back to. Secondly, does the rule include joint operations, where a person may not necessarily be in the same formal unit but might be assigned to work in a collaborative way, in a closely positioned operation and in a joint setting? Does “unit” capture things that are not in a formal regiment or structure but could be in a joint operation?

The new rules on lay members attending the review of sentence proceedings via live link seem entirely logical. Will the Minister set out where there is a minimum requirement for the number of lay members who must attend in person?

Because we do not get too many of these amendments, and the amendments seem eminently sensible, may I also ask why they were not included in the Armed Forces (Court Martial) (Amendment) Rules 2022, which were brought before this House as a result of the Lyons review? Many of the amendments in the draft rules seem to fit with the amendments that were in that previous statutory instrument, so I would be grateful if the Minister could set out what that means.

I agree with the Minister that bringing bits of civilian justice into the service justice system seems a good approach, and that is an opportunity for me to restate Labour’s position that murder, manslaughter and rape committed in the UK should also be included in the civilian justice system.

Finally, I want to make a point about the application of the legislation to Gibraltar. People who have heard me speak on SIs will know this point, but I am increasingly concerned that a body of armed forces legislation seems to apply to armed forces personnel everywhere around the world except Gibraltar, creating quite an application gap in Gibraltar. Has the Minister’s Department done any work to capture that deficit for service personnel who are serving in Gibraltar? It seems erroneous that, if offences are committed in Gibraltar rather than somewhere else, they are treated in a different and more dated fashion.

Ukraine: Military Equipment

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

As we mark two years since Vladimir Putin’s brutal, illegal invasion began, it should be a source of pride to all in this House that the UK remains totally united and committed to supporting Ukraine. We must continue to stand with the Ukrainian people for as long as it takes for them to win.

On military help for Ukraine and on reinforcing our NATO allies, the UK Government have had, and will continue to have, Labour’s fullest support. At yesterday’s opening of the Paris summit, to shore up support for Ukraine, western leaders rightly made it clear that Russia is far from a spent force and that Putin will not stop at Ukraine if he wins. As Russia steps up its war effort, we must step up our support, and so must Ukraine’s other allies. Labour welcomes the 200 extra Brimstone anti-tank missiles and the £245 million artillery munitions package for Ukraine, which the Government announced this weekend.

Ministers favour ad hoc announcements over a fuller military aid plan for Ukraine, but how can industry invest and mobilise with confidence without a long-term plan to work against? On stepping up western support for Ukraine, how are we co-ordinating with our NATO allies to ensure that our munitions support provides Ukraine with the urgent and sustained help it needs? Of the £2.5 billion announced for 2024, can the Minister confirm how much is being spent on Ukraine and how much is being spent on UK operational costs at NATO bases?

Given the importance of the Paris summit for Ukraine, why was the Prime Minister unable to attend the event, unlike other key western leaders? There could be a change in Government this year, but there will be no change in Britain’s resolve to stand with Ukraine, to confront Russian aggression and to pursue Putin for his war crimes.

[James Cartlidge]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for continuing to show solidarity, for the consensus that exists across the House and, in particular, for specifically mentioning the Brimstone gifting and the £245 million recently announced for artillery munitions.

The hon. Gentleman talks about our longer-term plan. Just to be clear, the war is happening today and the key focus of the £2.5 billion for Ukraine this financial year is getting support into the country as soon as possible, which is when they need it. Of course, we want to have a long-term plan too. I am clear that the UK will play a very significant role in helping Ukraine, when it is fully free, to get back to the level of prosperity it expects. For now, we have to focus on what is a very challenging situation.

Drones are one of the most important capabilities we have seen in Ukraine, and they have arguably transformed the nature of warfare in this conflict. Last week I was pleased to announce our own uncrewed strategy and, in doing so, I talked about the Malloy T150 drone, which has done an incredible job, lifting blood, munitions and other key supplies to Ukrainian marines on the bank of the Dnieper. We have provided 4,000 drones to Ukraine, and we will keep doing that—we have the £200 million. Yes, it is about shells and munitions, but we also have to provide a way to fight with them; we have to assist to ensure that we deliver that capability, which is why those coalitions are so important.

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman supports us in the round, and we are sending a message that this House is united in supporting Ukraine.

Oral Answers to Questions

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

We have 24,000 fewer troops, 4,000 fewer sailors, 200 fewer aircraft and the removal of one in five ships. The Conservatives have failed our armed forces over the past 14 years, missing their recruitment target every year since taking power in 2010 and hollowing out our military. Does the Minister honestly believe that he can look the public in the eye and claim that five more years will fix the mess that they have created, or is it time for a fresh start?

[Dr Murrison]

Oh, I think the hon. Gentleman knows what I am going to say in response to his question, and that is to invite him to have a conversation with the shadow Chancellor to see whether she will commit to the same level of spending on defence that this Government are committed to and, indeed, are spending right now. Will he make a spending commitment here and now in the House of Commons? If so, I am all ears.

Afghan Relocations: Special Forces

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on Afghan relocation and assistance policy eligibility for Afghan special forces.

[The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to update the House on developments relating to the Afghan relocations and assistance policy scheme, and to answer the specific question raised by the hon. Gentleman in relation to former members of commando force 333 and Afghan territorial force 444.

Many colleagues across the House are passionate advocates for applicants to the ARAP scheme—whether they served shoulder to shoulder with them in Afghanistan, or represent applicants and their family members who are residents in their constituencies. We owe a debt of gratitude to those brave individuals who served for, with, or alongside our armed forces in support of the UK mission in Afghanistan. Defence is determined to honour the commitments we made under the ARAP scheme, which is why we have robust checks in place and regularly review processes and procedures.

Although many former members of the Afghan specialist units have been found eligible under ARAP and safely relocated to the UK with their families, a recent review of processes around eligibility decisions demonstrated instances of inconsistent application of the ARAP criteria in certain cases. The issue relates to a tranche of applications from former members of Afghan specialist units, including members of CF 333 and ATF 444—known as the Triples. Having identified this issue through internal processes, we must now take necessary steps to ensure that the criteria are applied appropriately to all those individuals.

As such, I can confirm that the Ministry of Defence will undertake a reassessment of all eligibility decisions made for applications with credible claims of links to the Afghan specialist units. The reassessment will be done by a team independent of the one that made the initial eligibility decisions on the applications. The team will review each case thoroughly and individually. A written ministerial statement to that effect was tabled this morning, and I commend it to colleagues. A further “Dear colleague” letter will follow by close of business tomorrow.

It is the case, however, that ARAP applications from this cohort present a unique set of challenges for eligibility decision making. Some served in their units more than two decades ago, and some while the Afghan state apparatus was still in its infancy or yet to come into existence all together. It is also the case that they reported directly into the Government of Afghanistan, meaning that we do not hold comprehensive employment or payment records in the same way as we do for other applicants.

I fully understand the depth of feeling that ARAP evokes across this place and beyond. I thank Members from across the House for their ongoing advocacy and support for ARAP. We have that same depth of feeling in the MOD and in Government, and we will now work quickly to make sure that the decisions are reviewed, and changed if that is necessary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Luke Pollard]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question.

The Triples Afghan special forces, trained and funded by the UK, are some of the top targets for Taliban reprisals. Around 200 Triples face imminent deportation from Pakistan to Afghanistan, and at least six members of the Triples are reported to have been murdered by the Taliban since the withdrawal from Kabul. Ministers have allowed media speculation to build for almost a week before setting out to Parliament today the Government’s plan to U-turn and look again at the applications.

The Minister highlighted inconsistencies in processing the applications—failures, flaws. How was that allowed to happen on his watch? How long will the reviews take, and what new information will be factored in? Tragically, today’s decision could be too late for many. Does the Minister know how many of the Triples who were wrongly denied support have already been deported to Afghanistan, tortured or killed? What conversations has he had with Pakistan to halt deportations of those who could now be granted sanctuary? There is no time to waste.

The least the Triples deserve is clarity over ARAP policy, but for months a public spat has played out between the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and the Minister for Armed Forces. We should all remember that the people who matter here are those Afghans who have been left in limbo, fearing for their lives and their futures. That is why clarity matters. Britain’s moral duty to assist Afghans is felt most fiercely by those in the UK forces who served alongside them, many of whom sit on both sides of the House. British personnel who have offered references to former Triples say that they were never even contacted by the Ministry of Defence. Many of their ARAP applications were denied. Will such basic errors happen again, or will that be reviewed properly?

The British public do not understand why Afghan special forces personnel who served and fought alongside our troops and who are eligible for safety have not yet received sanctuary here. Will the Minister now sort this out?

[James Heappey]

I know that the hon. Gentleman, who has been advocating for some cases and is as passionate about the matter as anybody, will feel aggrieved, as will many colleagues around the House. The responsibility of any Minister is to own any failure of process that happens in their Department, and I accept that responsibility.

The reality is that these are very difficult decisions to make. The hon. Gentleman said that the Triples were funded by the UK Government. That is not entirely accurate; they were funded as a donor alongside many other donors, into the Government of Afghanistan, who funded the units. As he will well know from colleagues on his own Benches who commanded units that worked closely with the Triples, top-up payments were made in order to generate loyalty and, frankly, to avoid the Triples being poached by other coalition partners, which had similar forces of their own.

The records of those top-up payments were very ad hoc. I take my responsibilities for accuracy to the House seriously, and I can tell the hon. Gentleman in all seriousness that we have looked for employment records and none of those ad hoc records of additional payments is available to us. We have spoken to colleagues who have experience of these matters in the House and beyond, to ask for any records that they have, but even then a lot of the records produced are those that are put together by charities advocating for the Triples, rather than contemporary records of those top-up payments.

The reality is that whatever the challenges have been, some decisions were made in an inconsistent way. That is why they must be reviewed. We will aim to get the review done as quickly as possible—we anticipate that it will take around 12 weeks. Before that, we need to put in place the people who will do the review, who will be independent of everything that has gone before. In the first instance, it will be a review of the robustness of the decisions themselves, and where it finds that decisions were not robust, we will, of course, seek new information both from the applicant and from colleagues in the House who have advocated for them.

The shadow Minister makes some good points about what this means for people who are in Pakistan. It is impossible to say who, of those who were not already in the pipeline as approved applicants, has been deported. We do not track that, so I cannot answer his specific question but, of course, we will alert the Government of Pakistan to those who are included within the review, so that they can enjoy the same protection from deportation as those who have already been approved and are awaiting their onward move to the UK.

The shadow Minister necessarily points to the politics and the alleged disagreement among Conservative Members —that is the nature of his role—but I am simply not motivated by such things. The reality is that we are trying our best to bring as many people to the UK from Afghanistan as possible. Some decisions are relatively straightforward, because we hold the employment records, but others are far more complicated. Although there have undoubtedly been some decisions that are not robust and need to be reviewed, I put on record that the people involved in making those decisions, across the MOD, have been working their hardest and doing their best. I stand up for their service and for what they have done, and I take responsibility for their shortcomings.

Oral Answers to Questions

Luke Pollard Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister for Defence Procurement has today confirmed that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark, based in Devonport, which I am proud to represent, are still at risk of being mothballed. He said that no final decisions have been made, so the risk to these ships is real. When will a decision be made? Will the ships be cut, or will they be tied up alongside, flying the white ensign but never really putting to sea?

[Grant Shapps]

Of course anyone who is serious about the defence budget has to make the decision about whether to put into maintenance ships that have already served twice their intended lives—18 years and more, times two—and that would come out of that maintenance after brand-new ships were at sea. There is obviously a decision for the Royal Navy to make on that, but I remind the House that there are eight Type 26s and five Type 31s under construction or under contract.