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Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
This is day 1,049 of Russia’s brutal, illegal, full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and 2025 will be the critical year in the conflict. My job as Defence Secretary is to put Ukrainians in the strongest possible position on the battlefield and at any negotiating table, so throughout 2025, we will develop UK training, strengthen defence industrial co-operation, increase pressure with allies on Russia, and step up and speed up military aid to Ukraine.
Harpreet Uppal
I welcome the recent announcement of £225 million in new military assistance to Ukraine. Alongside that, we must continue to step up our efforts to pressure Russia. Following the reported damage to a major undersea cable in the Baltic over Christmas, which Finnish authorities suggest may be linked to a shadow fleet vessel, what further actions is the UK taking alongside European allies to undermine the Russian shadow fleet?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right in general terms: Russian aggression is not simply confined to Ukraine, and we all saw what happened on Christmas day. We are deeply concerned about the damage and sabotage to undersea cables. I can confirm to the House that for the first time the joint expeditionary force—the JEF—has activated an advanced UK-led reaction system to track potential threats to undersea infrastructure and to monitor the movements of the Russian shadow fleet. That will be run out of the standing joint force headquarters at Northwood.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State said that his aim is to ensure that Ukraine is in the “strongest possible position”, but for what? Does he intend to support Ukraine in commanding her internationally recognised borders or to ensure that the de facto border, which excludes Donbas and Crimea, becomes a more permanent feature?
John Healey
Quite simply, our job as the UK is to support Ukraine in its fight and, if and when it decides to talk, to support it in any negotiations. It is the Ukrainians who are fighting; it is the Ukrainians who decide when to start talking; and it is for the Ukrainians to decide on what terms they may start talking.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The AUKUS partnership will create new contract opportunities for hundreds of small and medium-sized firms. It will create 7,000 new jobs both in UK shipyards and across the UK supply chain.
Mr Holden
As the Secretary of State knows, under the defence equipment plan about half of MOD expenditure is on equipment, with around 40% of that going overseas. What impact does the Secretary of State think that the Government’s abolition of business property relief and the massive increase in national insurance will have on UK SMEs’ ability to compete in the defence sector with our AUKUS allies following the previous Government’s signing of that agreement?
John Healey
It is certainly the case, as the right hon. Gentleman rightly recognises, that in government the Conservatives were too often largely blind to where British firms were based and to where the contracts that they were ready to award went. This Government have come into power committed not just to strengthening UK security but to boosting the UK economy. That means designing, making and buying more in Britain.
Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The Government are delivering for defence by increasing defence spending. There is already £3 billion extra for next year, and a commitment to setting a path to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence in the spring.
Patrick Spencer
It is all very well spending 2.5% of GDP on defence, but we have to spend it on the right kit. Over the weekend I noted a story about our NATO allies being frustrated with Britain for not investing in appropriate missile defence systems. As the Secretary of State meets his 2.5% commitment, will he commit to investing in surface-to-air missiles, precision and hypersonic missile systems, DragonFire laser systems and counter-drone blocking technology to ensure that the British Army is the most advanced and able in the western world?
John Healey
The UK has for many years been one of the highest spenders on defence in NATO. We continue to hold that proud record. Increasing spending this year will mean that Britain continues to be one of the highest spenders in NATO. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the last time this country spent 2.5% on defence was in 2010 under the previous Labour Government—a level of defence spending that was not matched once during the 14 years in which his party was in government.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
On defence spending, I am glad that UK-based defence firms will be prioritised for Government investment under the defence industrial strategy, which should boost British jobs in constituencies such as Slough and help to strengthen national security, but major defence programmes are currently in disarray, with only two out of 49 on time and on budget. What actions are the Government taking to fix the waste and mismanagement in the system?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right. Everyone agrees that more needs to be spent on defence to meet the increasing threats. He asks why only two out of 49 of the major defence projects are on time and on budget. That question may best be directed at the shadow Defence Secretary, the hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), who was responsible for exactly that up until the election six months ago. There is of course a question about how much we spend, but there is also a challenge in how well we spend it. The shadow Armed Forces Minister, the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), was one of the strongest critics of the previous Government and of what he described as the “broken” procurement system. We are getting a grip of MOD budgets, driving deep reform in defence and ensuring that we reduce the waste and delay in procurement contracts.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
I congratulate the Minister for Veterans and People, the hon. and gallant Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns), on receiving a distinguished service order—we are all proud of him.
The Government have tied the announcement of their timetable for 2.5% to the publication of the strategic defence review, so we need it to be published as soon as possible. Will the Secretary of State clarify why he has pushed back the SDR’s publication in Parliament from the spring to the summer?
John Healey
I have not done that. The work of the reviewers leading the strategic defence review is thorough and flat out. The review has been widely contributed to and is the first of its kind in this country, allowing fresh thinking in defence planning. On the 2.5% commitment, as we said in the plan for change, we will set out a path to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence in the spring. The Government are delivering on defence and defence reform; we will deliver on defence funding, too.
James Cartlidge
The Secretary of State says that publication has not been pushed back, but I remind the House that at the previous Defence questions on 18 November last year, the Secretary of State was asked specifically about SDR timing and said:
“The reviewers will report in the spring.”—[Official Report, 18 November 2024; Vol. 757, c. 4.]
However, in a written answer to me on 17 December—just before the House rose—a Defence Minister said:
“The Reviewers will make their final report to the Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Defence Secretary in the first half of 2025. The Secretary of State for Defence will subsequently report the Strategic Defence Review to Parliament.”
If the first part is in the first six months of the year, even I can see that the second part, which is subsequent to that, will happen in the second half of the year. That is not the spring, is it?
John Healey
We are dancing on the head of a pin here—the spring is in the first half of the year. I think the hon. Gentleman should take my words to this House and to him, which have been consistent that the strategic defence review will report in the spring. It will report directly to the Prime Minister, to the Chancellor and to me, and I will update the House directly. We will also set out our clear path to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence in the spring.
Jacob Collier (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)
Danny Beales (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Lab)
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
Charlie Dewhirst (Bridlington and The Wolds) (Con)
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
Euan Stainbank (Falkirk) (Lab)
Kirsteen Sullivan (Bathgate and Linlithgow) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
This Government have already taken swift action to demonstrate our commitment to renew this nation’s contract with those who have served. We have awarded £3.7 million in veterans’ housing grants, veterans will be exempt from the local connection test for social housing in England, and veteran cards are now accepted ID for elections. We have launched a £75 million LGBT financial redress scheme; Op Fortitude, Op Courage and Op Restore are all progressing at pace; and we are currently reviewing how we can make veterans’ support more institutionally resilient. This demonstrates that we have a bias for action, and this Government are delivering for defence.
Jacob Collier
Last year, I had the pleasure of meeting Tim Latter, a Royal Navy veteran and owner of Grindhouse gym in Tatenhill. After facing his own mental health challenges, Tim set up that gym and launched Project I Got Your Six, which is an inspiring fitness coaching programme designed for the military, but also a way for people to talk openly about their mental health. What steps are this Government taking to support veterans with their mental health after their service? Perhaps the Minister would like to meet Tim with me, to see the amazing work he does.
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for a really relevant question. It is essential that we cater for both the physical and psychological impacts of service on those who have served. Op Courage has already had 35,000 referrals. I congratulate Tim Latter on the work he has done, and I would be glad to visit his gym—and perhaps do a little phys with him—to see how it helps veterans’ mental progression in due course.
Danny Beales
I welcome the Government’s commitment to a new armed forces covenant. Will the provisions apply to local councils, so that we see Conservative Hillingdon council end its unfair parking charges on military personnel and their families in service accommodation—an issue that was raised with me recently when the Secretary of State visited to announce the welcome investment in military housing—and we can finally say that Hillingdon puts our heroes first?
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for what, again, is a very important question. I ask him to write to me on the specific issue of Hillingdon council and parking. The important underlying fact is that we have to put the covenant into law—we have made that commitment, and it will happen within the next two years. We will deliver it, and hopefully we will eradicate the postcode lottery in support to veterans across the country.
Tonia Antoniazzi
I welcome this Government’s quick action to deliver on our promise to veterans of making veteran ID cards an accepted form of voter ID, which rightly ensures access to elections for those who have served to protect our freedoms. Will the Minister work with colleagues across government to ensure that veterans are made aware of that very important change?
Al Carns
It took us four months from starting the process to getting the veteran ID card recognised as voter ID, which is superb. We will move this matter forward, and I would love to discuss it in more detail. I highlight that it is not only a physical ID card: we now also have a digital card, which is increasing veterans’ ability to register with all the different services available.
Charlie Dewhirst
Will the Minister join me in congratulating East Riding of Yorkshire council on achieving the armed forces covenant employer recognition scheme gold award, and pay tribute to both the council leader Anne Handley and our armed forces champion Councillor Liam Dealtry for their roles in achieving that? Could he also tell the House what he is doing to encourage more organisations to achieve this highest standard in veterans’ support?
Al Carns
I thank the hon. Member for raising that point, and congratulate the people he has mentioned on signing up to the covenant duty, which is superb. They join about 12,400 others who have given their signatures, which is a fantastic example of British society standing up to support veterans. In due course, I would like to visit and meet them when we get a chance.
Anna Dixon
In Shipley constituency, there are over 3,000 veterans. I have enjoyed meeting local veterans recently, and I invite my hon. Friend to join me in thanking them for their service. However, with the number of homeless veteran households in England reaching 2,270 in the year 2023-24, will the Minister assure me that veterans in Shipley constituency will receive the housing support they need?
Al Carns
I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the veterans of Shipley. It is essential, especially over the Christmas period and the next three or four months, that anyone who needs a roof over their head has one. That is why Op Fortitude is really moving at pace: we have had just under 3,000 referrals, and over 800 veterans have been put into housing. I would say that if anyone has any veterans in their constituency, please get them to go on to gov.uk and look at the services available. There are plenty of services out there to get those individuals into housing as fast as possible.
Euan Stainbank
It is welcome in Falkirk that this Government are determined to renew this nation’s contract with those who have served and their families. Can the Minister assure veterans in Falkirk that this Government’s work to strengthen the reach and practical application of the armed forces covenant will be a major focus for his Department in 2025?
Al Carns
Absolutely. As a fellow Scot, I take that very seriously, and I will be visiting there at the end of this week. I have already met the Scottish Veterans Minister, and I want to champion best practice and mutual understanding between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to ensure that we can all learn off each other and deliver the most and best services for veterans in due course.
Kirsteen Sullivan
As a former councillor, I know that many veterans can find themselves at a disadvantage when trying to access services, including social housing. Veterans face housing challenges not only in Bathgate and Linlithgow, but across the country. With many Scottish councils and indeed the Scottish Government having declared a housing emergency, will the Minister advise the House what engagement he has had with the Scottish Government to ensure that the housing needs of veterans are prioritised?
Al Carns
My hon. Friend highlights a pretty important point. The Government as a whole are pushing forward to deliver houses at a faster rate over the next five years than, I hope, ever before. Veterans will be included in that, and when I come to Scotland at the end of the week these are exactly the issues I will be talking to the Scottish Veterans Minister about.
Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)
Operation Prosper was launched in April 2024 to support veterans into work after they leave the armed forces. Does the Minister expect to continue the funding for Operation Prosper after the conclusion of the spending review?
Al Carns
As we move forward, we will be involved in the SDR and looking at supporting veterans into transition and employment in due course. A large proportion of veterans who leave services go into employment. We want to continue that and increase the percentage over time.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Service Dogs UK is a charity dedicated to supporting armed forces and emergency services veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder. Since opening its south-west hub in Somerton in 2020, it has matched rescue dogs with veterans across Somerset and the wider south-west, giving veterans an opportunity to manage their PTSD and move on with their lives. Will the Minister join me in congratulating the charity, and will the Government support such charities to expand their crucial work?
Al Carns
The charity has my full congratulations on the work it is doing. Having pets such as a dog provides psychological comfort and friends, especially for people healing from some of the psychological impacts of service or indeed combat, and I fully support it. If the hon. Member would like to discuss at a later date how we could push that forward, she should please reach out to me.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
Just before Christmas, we had the welcome announcement of a new veterans commissioner in Northern Ireland, Mr David Johnstone. Although I am sure the Minister will join me in wishing him well in his new post, it is a part-time post, it has only two seconded staff and it is not on a statutory basis like elsewhere. Will the Government put that post on a statutory basis so that the many veterans in Northern Ireland can have the service they deserve?
Al Carns
I thank the hon. and learned Member for his important question. First, we must get the armed forces covenant into law, which should cover a large proportion of the veteran support mechanism. I congratulate David Johnstone on taking up his post; I phoned him just before the Christmas recess. I am excited and looking forward to working with him and ensuring that the unique attributes of veterans in Northern Ireland are accounted for and represented in the correct manner.
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
Maggie Haynes is the founder of Tuppenny Barn, a horticultural therapy charity in my constituency, and she is a veteran herself. She established a female veterans course after observing that the challenges faced by women leaving the armed forces combined with poor communication from the MOD was leaving them unaware of the services available to them. What is the Minister doing to improve support for female veterans?
Al Carns
We are working on our armed forces strategy, part of which will be a specific section for female veterans. We understand the nuances and difficulties of female veterans leaving service and trying to find employment or linking employment with family life and so forth, so we are pushing that forward really hard. Again, I would be very pleased to discuss that with the hon. Member in due course.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the veterans Minister for his answer. In previous questions in this Chamber I have suggested to the Minister that he might wish to visit Beyond the Battlefield, a charity in my constituency that gives the only care for soldiers whenever they have fallen on bad times. Will the Minister make time available to come and see what we do with that charity in Portavogie and Strangford as an example for everyone else?
Al Carns
Later this week I am going to Scotland, and we will do Wales and then Northern Ireland in due course, and when I visit I would be honoured to come to see the good work the charity is doing.
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
This Labour Government are delivering for defence and the landmark Armed Forces Commissioner Bill is the first step in renewing the nation’s contract with those who serve. The commissioner will be appointed following the passage of the primary legislation establishing the role. The Bill passed Committee stage in the Commons in December and I look forward to Report stage in due course.
Will Stone
I thank the Minister for his response. As an ex-rifleman, I have seen at first hand the negative impact of shoddy care and equipment on service personnel’s mental and physical health. What will installing an armed forces commissioner do to make their standard of living better?
Luke Pollard
I thank my hon. Friend for his service. It is absolutely vital that the voices of armed forces personnel and their families are listened to more. That is why we are establishing in the commissioner an independent champion for armed forces and their families. The commissioner will have an independent role, be able to scrutinise the actions of the armed forces and report to Parliament rather than to Ministers, and will not be beholden to the whims of either any Government of the day or the chain of command. That independence will allow the commissioner to scrutinise general service welfare matters, shining a spotlight on the issues that really matter to those who serve in uniform and their families.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
The Government have said that part of their inspiration for the Armed Forces Commissioner was such a role in Germany, yet Germany has a parliamentary armed forces commissioner. Why is there that difference and why, in line with what the Minister said in an earlier answer, can we trust the independence of this new appointment?
Luke Pollard
The right hon. Gentleman is right that the German armed forces commissioner is part of the inspiration for the role. Dr Eva Högl is a superb example of how we can scrutinise and champion the armed forces and provide solutions and a voice to those who serve. She sits effectively as a Member of Parliament in the German Parliament, which we did not feel was appropriate for the UK Armed Forces Commissioner, but the independence and the way she has pioneered much of that work in recent years is a real inspiration to us. We hope that such a workable example from a key NATO ally—people can raise issues with her and shine a spotlight on those issues to improve service welfare matters and as a result improve morale and the operational effectiveness of the armed forces—will give strength to the independence of the role.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
During debates on the Bill in Committee I raised the worrying issue that under the Treasury’s proposed inheritance tax changes, service personnel who are unmarried but in a long-term relationship could have their partner’s service benefit taxed should they die while in service. The Forces Pension Society has rightly highlighted that that would be totally contrary to the spirit of the armed forces covenant. Has the Minister yet raised this with the Treasury, as we strongly suggested last month he should, and if so what progress has been made?
Luke Pollard
As the right hon. Gentleman will recall from the Bill Committee, which in parliamentary sitting days was only a few days ago, we are raising issues around a number of things, including the one he raises. It is subject to a consultation, as he knows, so a decision has not been made. It is a responsibility for the Treasury, rather than the Ministry of Defence, but I undertook to write to him, and I will do so.
Sadik Al-Hassan (North Somerset) (Lab)
Mr Paul Foster (South Ribble) (Lab)
Lewis Atkinson (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
I thank my hon. Friends for raising an exceptionally important matter. The deal to sell off most of our service family accommodation in 1996, then rent it back and upgrade it, is probably one of the worst deals I can think of. The recent Annington homes deal, supported by those on both sides of the House, was delivered at speed by this Government, and it saves this country and the taxpayer £600,000 a day, or £230 million a year. It puts us back in the driving seat of owning all our family accommodation. It allows us to renovate or rebuild as required over the next five to 10 years and long into the future. In the medium to long term, we have a once-in-a-generation, lifetime opportunity to rebuild all our accommodation.
Sadik Al-Hassan
May I wish a happy new year to you, Mr Speaker, to Members and to constituents in North Somerset?
Morale in our military hit record lows under the last Government, and I am proud that this Government have already delivered the largest pay rise for the forces in more than 20 years. Does the Minister agree that this housing deal is the next practical step in the action that this Government are delivering to improve service lives for dedicated personnel?
Al Carns
My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have lived in some of the accommodation and I have seen how bad it is, and this deal will allow us to change that. Over time we will have a chance, saving £230 million a year, to give the people who serve this country the deal they deserve when it comes to housing.
Mr Foster
During my service in the late ’80s, through the ’90s and into the early 2000s, I had the pleasure of having to live in military accommodation. Its poor condition was discussed almost weekly. Roll forward 20 years, and we are still having the same discussion. Can Ministers please assure me that they will now seriously get a grip of that and, through the strategic defence review, give some clear programme delivery dates for when we will deliver for our forces?
Al Carns
Absolutely. As part of the SDR, we will set out our new defence housing strategy. We will look at how we take Annington, build on it and improve the housing available for those who serve in our armed forces.
Lewis Atkinson
As a member of a forces family, I welcome the Government’s landmark decision to renationalise service housing. For too long, military families have been living in substandard accommodation. How will the Minister ensure that this investment leads to tangible improvements? In what timescales can our servicemen and servicewomen expect to see those improvements start?
Al Carns
We are buying back, we are breaking it down and we will build back up. That will be part of a comprehensive plan across the country and across 36,000 homes over time. It will look to deliver housing that is fit for those who serve and the family members who are often left behind when those individuals deploy. I have absolute confidence that we will deliver that, in conjunction with independent bodies as well as those in defence.
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (North Cotswolds) (Con)
The Minister has already referred to his successful £6 billion deal to repurchase the MOD housing estate from Annington. It will give members of our armed forces the opportunity to have their homes refurbished, which they have longed for, for a very long time. Has he managed to persuade the Treasury that he will need to provide further funds to pump-prime these improvements? If so, how will he strengthen the hitherto very poor management of our military housing estate?
Al Carns
As part of our new defence housing strategy, we will look at how we will manage that estate as a whole and whether we will do it completely differently. As part of the SDR, we will look at how we will pump-prime some of that to get building back across the whole defence estate, bearing in mind that there are 36,000 houses and some of them have been in situ for about 50 years and will need to be knocked down and rebuilt.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
Under the previous arrangement between the Ministry of Defence and Annington, £100 million was released for accommodation upgrades in the first seven years of that arrangement. What due diligence was carried out ahead of the sale? What additional investment will be made in the married quarters that the Government have brought back into the MOD’s ownership?
Al Carns
This is one of the best deals that defence has done in a long time. It has bought back 36,000 homes, saving the taxpayer £600,000 a day or £230 million over a year. We are in discussions with the Treasury now about where that money goes and how it will be used in the future, but I assure the hon. Member that the rebuild plan will be within the defence housing strategy as part of the SDR.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
Since October 2023, more than 5,000 Afghans eligible for support via the Afghan relocations and assistance policy have been moved into Ministry of Defence service families accommodation—both transitional and then settled service families accommodation—under Operation Lazurite. How many SFA houses in the defence estate are currently being used to house Afghan families? What is the plan for their onward movement once their three-year eligibility for settled service families accommodation has elapsed?
Al Carns
I thank the hon. Member for that really important question. We have a duty of care to those from Afghanistan who are now living in the UK and we are absolutely committed to delivering on that. I will write to him in due course on the specifics of his question.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
In 2023, there were over 5,000 reports of damp and mould in service accommodation. Members of the armed forces are willing to put their lives on the line to support the freedoms that we take for granted, so it is inconceivable that they and their families are forced to live in homes filled with damp and mould. Now that the MOD has agreed to buy back thousands of these family homes, will the Government commit to ensuring that all service family accommodation meets the minimum standards for social housing as set out in the decent homes standard?
Al Carns
We already do that. The reality is that a large proportion of these houses were built 50 to 60 years ago, so the thick insulation and double-skinned walls that we would see as commonplace just do not exist. The Annington deal is therefore such a good one, as it allows us to refurbish or rebuild as required.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
The Labour Government are delivering for defence by stepping up and speeding up support for Ukraine. In December, we announced an additional package of artillery, air defence and drones. The Defence Secretary holds regular discussions with his US counterpart on how best to support Ukraine, most recently on 16 November.
Wera Hobhouse
I thank the Minister for his reply. Last year, Bath and North East Somerset council entered into a formal agreement with the city of Oleksandriia, providing medical support as well as strengthening cultural and community ties. In talks with the incoming US Government, will the Minister ensure that they are aware of the enduring and deep solidarity that the British people feel towards the people of Ukraine in their effort to defeat a brutal aggressor?
Luke Pollard
I thank the hon. Member—my fellow south-west MP—for her advocacy of that as well as the people of Bath who have opened their homes to so many Ukrainian families, as have families right across the country. It is vital that we continue to support not only Ukraine to stay in the fight to protect its sovereignty and freedom but those Ukrainians in the United Kingdom and in Ukraine to ensure that they can go about normal life as much as possible. The Government support that work and will continue supporting Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Dan Carden (Liverpool Walton) (Lab)
The Secretary of State and the Minister have put Britain’s military production capability at the heart of the Government’s support for Ukraine. I wonder what opportunities the Minister spies for transatlantic co-operation in that regard. May I make a special plea that the whole defence team discuss plans for developing our industrial capacity with regional mayors so that jobs and factories can be set up and developed around the country, including in regions like my own?
Luke Pollard
It is vital that we continue to support Ukraine and build our industrial capacity in the United Kingdom and across the NATO alliance to ensure that Ukraine can fight not only tonight but tomorrow. Part of that is about increasing the industrial supply of not just UK manufacturers but indigenous manufacturers within Ukraine itself. Building that greater industrial capacity is something that the Government take seriously. That is why the Secretary of State and the Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry have published the outline of the defence industrial strategy. We will continue to work with partners at both national and international level—and additionally at a regional and local level—to ensure that we have the industrial capacity and skills required to restock our own supply and continue to support Ukraine.
Alan Strickland (Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
We are delivering for defence, boosting spending by £3 billion in real terms this coming financial year. I hope that more of our procurement spend can go to SMEs. The defence industrial strategy will set the conditions to unlock the full potential of SMEs, to seize future opportunities and ensure the growth and resilience of our defence manufacturing base, providing more good jobs in every nation and region.
Alan Strickland
The North East Technology Park in Sedgefield is home to many innovative defence businesses, producing satellite technology and biological and radiation detection equipment that is used by our allies across the world. Those businesses proudly contract directly with the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, NASA, the American Defense Department and other allied Governments, but too often they struggle with MOD procurement rules, which exclude SMEs. Will the Minister meet me and NETPark businesses to discuss how to remove the red tape that hits small businesses in my constituency and across the country that are designing and producing innovative defence supplies?
Maria Eagle
First, I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend and his North East Technology Park businesses as soon as possible. The Government recognise that SMEs face particular challenges, which I want to address. Through the defence industrial strategy we will reduce barriers to entry and foster a more diverse community of suppliers, including non-traditional SMEs and those that are developing future technologies. We will also send a clear market signal about our preference to grow onshore production capability.
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
As part of the defence industrial strategy, does the Minister of State recognise the link between successful defence vehicle manufacturing, such as Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land manufacturing the Challenger 3 tank in my constituency, and the onshoring of barrel technology and defence engineering? Does she recognise the link between that skills cluster and the importance of companies such as RBSL having a future in manufacturing not just vehicles but barrels? I look forward to her visit to my constituency in the coming days.
Maria Eagle
I do not disagree at all. I look forward to visiting the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency and to seeing the potential of firms. He is completely correct that clusters of excellence and skill are the way forward. I look forward to visiting his constituency shortly.
Mr Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
The defence sector supports one in 60 of our jobs in this country—more than 400,000 well-paid jobs that are central to this Government’s growth mission and to our nation’s security. However, the majority of those jobs are outside London and the south-east. Therefore, growth and—crucially—engagement with defence and security are inhibited for young people in constituencies such as mine. Will the Minister confirm that the key ambition of our defence industrial strategy will be to broaden access to the defence sector in every region, including constituencies such as mine?
Maria Eagle
I am happy to accept that point, and I agree. Plenty of jobs and skills will be needed around the country in every nation and region, so that we improve matters everywhere.
Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)
Christmas came early for the UK defence industry when Spain placed an order for 25 Eurofighters on 20 December, and Italy followed suit on the 24th. But there is still nothing from the UK Government on the 25 Typhoon jets that are needed for the RAF. Will the Minister spread some festive cheer into the new year, and give us an update on where the Government are with placing that order for 25 Typhoon fighter jets—a delayed Christmas present for the UK defence industry and the RAF?
Maria Eagle
I recognise the hon. Gentleman’s point. It is certainly true that exports are important, in addition to production for our own use. We are working very hard on the export campaigns. I cannot say any more than that at present, but I can assure him that we are working very hard. The rest of our spend on such matters is part of the SDR. Once that is completed, there will be conclusions. It might not be a Christmas present—I do not know when his birthday is—but a present some time later.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
On defence industrial strategy, the new amphibious multi-role support ships are several years away—a point the Armed Forces Minister obviously appreciated when, in opposition last January, he wrote to his local paper to say that scrapping HMS Albion and Bulwark would be bad for our national security, for the Royal Navy and for Devonport. When the Defence Committee looked at this issue a few years ago, it firmly concluded that the decision would be “militarily illiterate”, yet today the Ministry of Defence is all for it. Even if the Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry does not agree with the Defence Committee, does she at least agree with the Armed Forces Minister that these vital ships should be retained?
Maria Eagle
Neither of the ships has been at sea for years—one since 2022 and the other since 2017—and neither was due to go back out to sea before their out-of-service date. The question of who might be said to have scrapped them is moot; the ships have not been scrapped, but we took the tough decision in November to retire ageing capabilities, so that we can save the money for dealing with the threats that we will face in future.
Manuela Perteghella (Stratford-on-Avon) (LD)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
The Prime Minister has made it clear that ensuring that veterans and their families can access support—including for housing—is a priority; he mentioned that in his speech at party conference. He has also announced that veterans will be exempt from the local connection test for social housing in England, and committed an additional £3.5 million to continuing the reducing veteran homelessness programme, including Op Fortitude.
Manuela Perteghella
The transition from military to civilian life is a critical moment for many veterans, but too often, those with complex mental health issues fall through the cracks, especially when it comes to accessing housing. The armed forces covenant is an excellent positive step forward, but its voluntary nature means that not all veterans will benefit equally. Will the Minister commit to reviewing the transition process, and particularly mental health services provision, to ensure that all veterans receive more comprehensive and tailored support?
Al Carns
The career transition pathway that has just been set up is a great example of how we are helping those leaving the services to transition into civilian life. Op Courage, in particular, has had more than 35,000 referrals; it is for anybody with mental health issues caused by their service. I recommend going on to gov.uk and looking at the services available, as they are pretty ample.
Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)
The defence sector provides well paid jobs across my city and constituency, and across the country. With 10,000 adults in the constituency on the minimum wage, will the Minister help me to work with the Department for Education to ensure that kids in my city get opportunities to work in this brilliant sector?
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for a very important question. I would like to talk further about this. We have been working with the Department for Education—
Mr Speaker
Is the Minister happy to answer the question? I do not quite see how it links to the subject, but if he is happy—
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
On this first day after the recess, I thank all armed forces personnel who worked over Christmas, including the nearly 10,000 personnel deployed overseas, and the crew of HMS Somerset, who were recalled on Christmas day to shadow Russian vessels around our shores. I also congratulate the many exceptional servicemen and women and veterans recognised in the new year’s honours list for their outstanding contributions, including the Minister for Veterans and People. My new year’s message to everyone working across defence is that this Government will continue delivering for defence throughout 2025, making the UK secure at home and strong abroad, stepping up support for Ukraine, boosting the UK defence industry, strengthening ties with allies and improving service life for armed forces personnel and their families.
Rebecca Smith
We have long-standing, cross-party support in Plymouth and Devon for ensuring the future of the Royal Marines, including 42 Commando in my constituency. Given the amphibious assault capability gap that we have as a result of scrapping—or, should I say, retiring—Devonport ships HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark, what commitment can the Secretary of State give that the green light will be given to building six multi-role support ships, and can he give a firm indication of when he hopes they will be in service?
John Healey
HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion were not genuine capabilities. The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry made that clear. Neither ship was set to put to sea again before their out-of-service date. This decision allows us to focus resources on where they need to be: on the capabilities that we need to support our Marines and deal with our adversaries.
Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
We owe a debt to our nuclear test veterans, who delivered their service in a courageous and honourable way. I have already committed to looking into the records issue in detail, and to continuous engagement with all the charities and nuclear test veteran groups.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
At every turn, Ministers have refused point blank to tell us how much their Chagos deal will cost British taxpayers. Now we know why: the Mauritians want £800 million a year. Whatever the figure is, will the Secretary of State tell us what percentage of the cost of leasing back a base that we currently own will come from the Ministry of Defence budget?
John Healey
I regret the Conservative carping over the Diego Garcia deal. The negotiations were started by Conservative Ministers, who conducted 11 rounds of negotiations. The agreement safeguards the effective operation of the joint UK-US base for at least 99 years. It is supported by US agencies and is welcomed by India, the African Union and the UN Security Council—almost everyone, it seems, except the Conservatives.
James Cartlidge
My apologies. I am, like you are Mr Speaker, very passionate on this subject. We see this as a terrible deal. That is why we would have never signed it. The incoming US President opposes the deal, the Mauritians are seeking to renegotiate it, and by any measure it is terrible value for money for the over-taxed British public. Does the Secretary of State really think that it is in our national interest to spend hundreds of millions of pounds leasing back a military base that we currently own, instead of spending every penny of that money on our armed forces in the UK?
John Healey
The agreement means that the base will be undisputed and legally secure for the first time in 50 years. The US Defence Secretary described it as an “historic agreement” and said:
“it will safeguard the strategic security interests of our two nations and our partners in the Indo-Pacific region”.
Paul Davies (Colne Valley) (Lab)
Al Carns
I absolutely agree. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to change housing for our service families. It will save taxpayers £600,000 a day, and £230 million over the year. It gives us an opportunity to build back over the medium to longer term, and to deliver the deal that those families deserve.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
We face serious national defence vulnerabilities, with no land-based anti-ballistic-missile systems to protect critical infrastructure, military bases or population centres. Recent suspected sabotage of undersea cables in the Baltics highlights the hybrid threats for which we must also prepare. What steps is the Ministry of Defence taking to address the UK’s deficiencies in anti-ballistic-missile defences, and how are we preparing for potential hybrid attacks on our critical infrastructure?
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
It is important that the strategic defence review is able to report its recommendations. It is certainly true that we inherited armed forces with capability gaps, falling morale and a recruitment and personnel crisis, which is why the SDR is so important in setting out a clear direction for the future. This Government back defence and will continue to do so, ensuring that those capability gaps are filled.
Kirsteen Sullivan (Bathgate and Linlithgow) (Lab/Co-op)
Al Carns
The essential role played by women throughout both major wars in delivering an industrial powerhouse to support our armed forces is not lost on the Government. I am happy to take this matter offline and discuss it in due course.
Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman has put his finger on a long-standing, deep-running weakness, namely a procurement policy under the last Government that did not recognise the UK steel industry as a strategic industry and was content for the amount of UK steel sourced for some new ships to be in the single figures. [Interruption.] Under previous procurement Ministers, the proportion was 4%. We will change that: the SDR will set out a plan to not just boost UK security, but strengthen the UK economy.
Tristan Osborne (Chatham and Aylesford) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
Yes, she will make a commitment to visit the site. I agree with my hon. Friend: our defence industrial strategy will enhance the incentives for long-term investment in the UK defence sector. It will encourage investment by private firms, alongside public money, align the imperatives of national security, and ensure that we have the necessary skills.
Pippa Heylings (South Cambridgeshire) (LD)
Luke Pollard
It is certainly true that this Government inherited a recruitment and retention crisis from the Conservatives. Morale was falling. That is why we are renewing the nation’s contract with those who serve. There will be more announcements about that in due course.
Mr Alex Barros-Curtis (Cardiff West) (Lab)
Luke Pollard
As the Prime Minister has made clear, Britain is back on the world stage, and we are deepening our defence relationships with our European allies. That means continuing to implement the Trinity House agreement between the UK and Germany. There is also the new UK-Estonia road map, and there is more to come: we will refresh the Lancaster House agreement with our friends in France as well.
Olly Glover (Didcot and Wantage) (LD)
Luke Pollard
We have laid out clearly that this Government will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. That means committing £3 billion a year, as we have done, to make sure that the Ukrainians have the equipment and ammunition they need to stay in the fight, as well as deepening our defence relationships with them. We are taking that across the NATO alliance to all NATO members, and we will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Sam Carling (North West Cambridgeshire) (Lab)
Al Carns
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The defence housing strategy will be a medium to long-term strategy and will be published, in line with the SDR, in the spring.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Given the Secretary of State for Defence’s previous remarks, can he set out for the House exactly what discussions there have been between Ministers and the incoming Trump Administration on the future of the Diego Garcia base?
John Healey
As the right hon. Gentleman knows very well, the system in the US is very different from ours. The Administration who are in place at present are in place until inauguration day on 20 January. That will be the point at which we in the UK Government will start to pick up direct discussions with the incoming Administration. The US is our closest security ally, and we will work with them to ensure that that continues.
Andrew Lewin (Welwyn Hatfield) (Lab)
Since Putin’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, our European Union allies have contributed €47.3 billion in funding to the Ukrainian military. One of those integral allies is Poland, which has just assumed the presidency of the EU Council, having started on 1 January. Will the Minister set out in a little more detail how we are working in lockstep with crucial allies like Poland at this dangerous time for the continent?
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to suggest that it is vital to deepen our relations with our European friends. Poland is a key European ally for us, not only in defence exports but in operational deployments. I have visited Poland twice recently, including to see the amazing work of the British Army in Operation Stifftail, which used our Sky Sabre system to help to defend Polish airspace. There will be further such joint deployments of our armed forces in due course.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
It sounds like the Government are not very keen to talk about Diego Garcia with President Trump, but when people as diverse as President Trump and Lord Neil Kinnock agree that NATO countries should be spending between 3% and 4% on defence, would it not be sensible to take them seriously?
John Healey
On Diego Garcia, Members will have the chance to scrutinise the detail of any treaty once it comes before the House. Just as the previous Government did, we made sure throughout the negotiations that the US Administration were fully informed, fully briefed and fully content with the steps that we were taking.
Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)
The procurement of Ajax wasted hundreds of millions of pounds—money desperately needed in my North East Derbyshire constituency. Can the Minister update me on the progress made in learning the lessons of that failure and implementing the findings of the Sheldon report?
Maria Eagle
Yes. My hon. Friend will know that the report was produced under the previous Government. Its findings were set out under the previous Government, and I think they announced that all the necessary steps to implement all 24 recommendations—15 were accepted and nine were accepted in principle—had been completed. We need to continue to learn the lessons and make sure that such problems do not arise in other programmes.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
The cost of the 10-year equipment plan for the Defence Nuclear Organisation stood at £44 billion in 2019. In 2022, it went up by 27% to £60 billion, and in 2024 it inflated by 62% to £99.5 billion. Can the Secretary of State reassure us that the MOD has not lost the run of itself on this worst-of-all defence procurement debacles? What personal commitment can he give the House that he has the foggiest idea what to do about it?
John Healey
I can absolutely give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. I can also tell him that this is a national enterprise of the utmost importance that maintains the underpinning security for this nation, as it has done over decades, and that the management of our nuclear enterprise and the budget controls are in place and stronger than they have been for years.
Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)
The naval base at Faslane and companies such as BAE Systems support thousands of jobs in my constituency. Does the Minister agree that we need to grow an integrated, innovative and resilient defence sector that will address problems such as skills shortages and the need for strategic long-term partnerships?
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
When the Secretary of State appeared at the Defence Committee recently, he was sitting alongside his permanent secretary when the permanent secretary announced that it was his aspiration to reduce the number of MOD civil servants by 10% within this Parliament. Does the Secretary of State recognise and welcome that aspiration?
John Healey
Yes, and I trust that the hon. Gentleman does too.
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
The Veterans Minister and I recently visited Bournemouth War Memorial Homes, a specialist social housing provider for veterans in my constituency. Will the Minister outline what the Government are doing to support housing providers to buy or build homes for heroes across our country?
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for the visit to Bournemouth to see that exemplar of how to house veterans. The Prime Minister has just announced £3.7 million of funding towards veterans’ housing and there will be more to come in due course.
Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con)
There were reports over the weekend of NATO worries that the UK is not contributing enough to the European defensive shield. That leaves us vulnerable to a missile attack. I hear what the Minister has said about the strategic defence review, but what assurance can he provide that he will look at our defence spending commitments with sufficient speed to provide good enough defence for our country?
Luke Pollard
The hon. Lady is right to raise the capability gaps that this Government inherited from the Government she served in. The strategic defence review is looking at those capability gaps and at what is needed to protect ourselves and our allies in the future. When that is set out later in the spring, she will be able to see how we plan to address those gaps, ensuring that we support British industry while also addressing the security challenges that we and our allies face.
Oliver Ryan (Burnley) (Lab/Co-op)
As a great supporter of the British-American alliance, I am disappointed to have to ask this question, but, given some of the recent tweets from people associated with the incoming US Administration, what assessment has the Secretary of State made of the UK’s exposure of our defence capabilities, given that there may be some changes in the White House?
John Healey
The US is the closest ally of this country, and this country is the closest security ally of the US. That has been for case the decades—it has withstood the ups and downs of the political cycle on both sides of the Atlantic—and we as a Government will work closely with the incoming US Administration.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
Defence spend with Northern Ireland small and medium-sized enterprises last year accounted for only £3 million. What will the Secretary of State and the Minister do to proactively increase that spend with Northern Ireland SMEs?
Maria Eagle
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I hope that our defence industrial strategy, in enabling SMEs to access contracts and work for the MOD more easily, will increase that number substantially.
Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Minister agree to meet me to discuss the figures for the incidence of blood cancers and sarcomas in veterans and current service personnel who have crewed particular military helicopters?
Al Carns
Given the concerns around exposure to exhaust fumes and the importance that we place on safety, the MOD is this month initiating the testing of the exhaust emissions of in-service helicopters to ensure that we are meeting our duty of care for personnel. Nevertheless, I would also like to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the issue further.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
Following the Christmas day attack on Finnish sea cables, what assessment has the Defence Secretary made of the threat to British interconnectors? Which individual Minister is ultimately responsible for their security?
John Healey
The Finnish investigation into what caused the damage to the Estlink 2 cable is continuing, but many analysts conclude that it is likely that the Eagle S was the cause. That reinforces the case for Operation Nordic Warden, which I confirmed to the House in response to an earlier question. It is being run from the Northwood standing joint forces headquarters and will cover a number of areas of interest, including areas where we have British undersea cables.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
I recently visited HMS Swiftsure at Rosyth in my constituency, a former Royal Navy submarine now being safely and securely dismantled and recycled by Babcock, as a pilot project of the submarine dismantling programme. Will the Minister provide an update on the programme, which could secure hundreds of jobs in Dunfermline and Dollar by dealing with similar submarines at Rosyth over the coming decades?
Maria Eagle
My hon. Friend will be aware that despite the fact we have had nuclear submarines since 1980, we have never dismantled one, so there is a lot of work to be done. What is happening with Swiftsure is very encouraging and will hopefully provide many jobs in dismantling nuclear submarines. I hope my hon. Friend will be happy with that reply.