(1 day, 17 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
Neither HMS Albion nor HMS Bulwark were due to go to sea ahead of their out-of-service dates in 2033 and 2034. The Royal Navy is exploring options to sell both HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark in a Government-to-Government sale. Several potential customers have shown interest, but no final decisions have been made.
Rebecca Smith
Given that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark are reportedly being sold to another navy for a figure that could well undervalue previous spends on refits and maintenance, how does the Minister justify the economic impact of their sale on Plymouth and Devonport dockyard, let alone the reduction in amphibious capability in the Navy, when the promised multi-role support ships are at least half a decade away from service?
Maria Eagle
I do not recognise any of the figures that have been bandied around in the newspapers; it would not be accurate to take them as anything other than speculation. The disposal shows that we are delivering for defence by divesting ourselves of old capabilities to make way for the future, as the First Sea Lord Admiral Ben Key put it. Those ships were effectively mothballed by the previous Government, so I will not take any lessons from Conservative Members on how to deal with these matters.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)
Aphra Brandreth (Chester South and Eddisbury) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The Government were elected on a firm commitment to set a path to increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP. The Prime Minister has said that we will do so in the spring.
John Lamont
So that my constituents can better understand the Government’s priorities, which does the Minister think that we will achieve first: a deal to lease Diego Garcia for billions of pounds, or spending 2.5% of GDP on defence?
John Healey
Everyone agrees that we must increase defence spending to meet the increasing threats. This Government are delivering for defence by increasing defence spending, and we have already increased defence spending by almost £3 billion next year.
Aphra Brandreth
It is clear that we face increasingly volatile and dangerous global security challenges, which is why the previous Government set a path to 2.5% of GDP being spent on defence by 2030. What conversations have the Minister and officials at the Ministry of Defence had with NATO counterparts, particularly from the United States, on increasing defence spending? What implications does he think his party’s lack of timeline for reaching 2.5% will have on the special relationship, given the new US Administration?
John Healey
This country is at the forefront of defence spending in NATO, and we are ready to increase it to 2.5% of GDP. The hon. Lady talked about the previous Government’s plan for 2.5% of GDP. I have to tell her that that was an election gimmick, announced four weeks before the Prime Minister called the election; the Institute for Fiscal Studies described it as “misleading”, and the Institute for Government described it as “a work of fiction.”
Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)
This Labour Government have given our armed services their biggest pay rise in almost 20 years. I have spoken to service personnel in my constituency, and those who are part of the armed forces parliamentary scheme. They talk about pay, but they also talk about service conditions and support for their families being key drivers of retention. What are the Government doing on those matters?
John Healey
I am proud to be the Defence Secretary who has been able, this year, to give the armed forces the largest pay rise in over 20 years. I am proud to have been able to do the deal that has seen 36,000 forces family homes brought back into public control, so that we can develop them for the future. This Government will reset the nation’s contract with those who serve and the families who support them.
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
In my time in the Army, I saw at first hand blokes not getting the kit and equipment that they needed to operate efficiently. It angered me to read this weekend that the previous Administration wasted £5 million on McClaren mudflaps. Will the Secretary of State promise me that he will not take the—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Shadow Secretary of State, you will have the Floor after the next two questions, but I have not called you yet. Come on, Mr Stone.
Will Stone
To return to my question, I angers me that the previous Administration wasted £5 million, when blokes like me did not have the kit and equipment that they needed to operate—[Interruption.] That is a fact. Will the Secretary of State promise me that he will put service personnel and our nation’s security first?
John Healey
My hon. Friend speaks from experience in the Rifles, and he is completely right. The issue is not just how much we spend, but how we spend it. The Government are delivering for defence by getting a grip of defence budgets, tackling Ministry of Defence waste and investing in the kit that our frontline service people need. We scrapped the £40 million VIP helicopter deal, we have ended the pointless racing car sponsorship, and we have saved £300 million from an out-of-control consultancy spend.
Jeremy Hunt (Godalming and Ash) (Con)
When the UK persuaded NATO to spend 2% of GDP on defence in 2014, just two other countries did so; now, 23 countries do. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is time once again for the UK to play a leadership role in Europe by persuading NATO to spend the money it should and keep America part of the alliance?
John Healey
I do indeed. It is time for the UK and European allies to step up and do more of the heavy lifting. That includes increasing defence spending, so that we can meet the threats that we face, and, as I have discussed with the new Defence Secretary in the US, boosting our defence industry on both sides of the Atlantic.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
In the light of the growing threats facing our United Kingdom, it was genuinely shocking to read at the weekend that Conservative Defence Ministers spent taxpayers’ money sponsoring a race car. My constituents in Paisley and Renfrewshire South are livid about the waste of their taxpayers’ money. Can the Secretary of State reassure my constituents that he will continue his actions to root out every aspect of wasteful spending in the Ministry of Defence?
John Healey
I can indeed. We have to get a grip of out-of-control defence waste and out-of-control defence budgets. I am pleased to have been able to put an end to that pointless racing car deal, which delivered free race-day tickets and MOD-sponsored branded mudflaps instead of the kit that our frontline troops need. Of course, the shadow Defence Secretary, the hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), was the Minister responsible for that deal—he agreed the contract and told the House that it was a “brilliant partnership”.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
You will know, Mr Speaker, the importance of secure communications, and this is Defence questions, so before I ask my question, may I say that Conservative Members were sent all the Ministry of Defence’s answers to our oral questions in advance? I do not know whether we should be grateful or concerned. We have been forewarned.
Mr Speaker
I thought that Ministers thought up the answers themselves. You have shocked me.
James Cartlidge
I thought that it would benefit the House to know that, given the importance of secure communications. I turn to my question, which involves secure communications. It says everything about the Government’s priorities that they are delaying increasing defence spending to 2.5%, but accelerating their terrible Chagos deal, at a cost of up to £18 billion. Last week, the Prime Minister justified the deal by stating that without it,
“the base cannot operate in practical terms as it should”.
No. 10 later briefed that that was a reference to satellite links. Is the Secretary of State seriously suggesting that there is an operational threat to US and UK military satellite communications at Diego Garcia?
John Healey
This is a question about defence spending. We have a cast-iron commitment to increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP—a level that the UK has not spent on defence since 2010, under the last Labour Government. On the Chagos deal, this is a military base that is vital to our national security. The Prime Minister was right to say that its legal certainty had been called into doubt. That is bad for our national security and a gift to our adversaries. That is why we looked for a deal that would safeguard the operations for at least the next century.
James Cartlidge
When the Prime Minister said that the base “cannot operate”, he was referring to operations. That implies that there must be some kind of direct threat to satellite communications on Diego Garcia. The world will have seen that the Secretary of State has not defended that position—he is not leaning into it in any way—which makes us think this: given that the former Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron and the previous Defence Secretary Grant Shapps saw the same intelligence and rejected the deal, which has since got worse and more expensive, is not the obvious thing to scrap it, and to spend every penny that is saved on our armed forces?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman’s colleagues, of course, were responsible for 11 rounds of negotiation on the deal, and the Prime Minister’s point was that a lack of long-term legal certainty casts into doubt the operational security of the base. This deal will secure an operational guarantee for at least a century.
Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)
Harriet Cross (Gordon and Buchan) (Con)
Damien Egan (Bristol North East) (Lab)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
The Government are delivering for defence with strong measures to protect our underwater critical national infrastructure. We have declassified the activities of the Russian spy ship Yantar. We have called out its activities by saying, “We see you. We know what you’re doing,” and we will robustly defend our critical national infrastructure.
Bradley Thomas
The Secretary of State agrees that the threat to critical undersea infrastructure is serious, so will he prioritise development of underwater capabilities, such as uncrewed systems, including under pillar 2 of AUKUS, and will he increase research and development investment into systems that could protect that critical undersea infrastructure?
Luke Pollard
I am grateful for the hon. Member’s question—it is a good one. We are seeing more risks posed to our critical underwater infrastructure by players who wish harm to our national security. We already have brilliant capability in RAF Proteus, which is able to support our infrastructure and that of our allies. When the strategic defence review is published in the spring, I am sure that there will be more developments in that direction.
Harriet Cross
The Secretary of State recently outlined to this House the serious situation with the Yantar—a clear example of the threat posed to our critical undersea infrastructure, and of the work that we need to do to defend ourselves and deter potential attacks. Does that not show that we need to increase our defence spending as quickly as possible to defend our crucial infrastructure and protect national security?
Luke Pollard
The hon. Member is right. We are increasing our defence spending. In the Budget, we increased defence spending by £3 billion, and in the spring, after the publication of the strategic defence review, we will set out a path to spending 2.5% of our GDP on defence.
Damien Egan
Our undersea cables are critical to the economy, public services and social order in this country. Given the hostile activity undertaken—the surveying of our cables—can Ministers give assurances that the full needs of our Navy will be reflected in the strategic defence review, so that we can defend our homeland security?
Luke Pollard
As a Navy brat and representative of a naval constituency, that is foremost in my mind. It is not just the Royal Navy that defends our critical national infrastructure; in the case of the Yantar, that was done by the RAF, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and the Royal Navy, as well as a joint integrated operation of all our forces working together to defend our interests. Anyone threatening our infrastructure should be in no doubt that the UK possesses formidable capabilities to defend itself—and we will.
Joani Reid (East Kilbride and Strathaven) (Lab)
Last week, I had the privilege of visiting His Majesty’s naval base Clyde with a number of my colleagues from across the House. Will the Secretary of State reassure the House that he is working with the Scottish Government to address the capacity and retention issues at the base, and that the Scottish Government are engaging positively on the industrial defence strategy?
Luke Pollard
Clyde is an important base for our national security. It is one of our critical military assets, and we work closely on it, not just with the Scottish Government and local councils, but across the entirety of Government. The success of our defence does not rely just on the actions and decisions of the Ministry of Defence; it is a whole-of-Government approach that keeps our nation safe. In these more difficult times, we will ask for more of a whole-of-Government approach, to ensure that the men and women of our fighting forces, and the civilians who support them, have what they need to keep our nation safe.
Suella Braverman (Fareham and Waterlooville) (Con)
The proposed AQUIND interconnector between France and England will slice through my constituency, causing huge disruption, but of more significant concern is the fact that the Ministry of Defence has raised serious national security concerns about the proposed submarine power cable. Does the Minister agree that we cannot do anything to jeopardise our national security, and will he formally lodge an objection with the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, who will consider the proposal?
Luke Pollard
I am familiar with the campaigning work of my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan), who has raised similar concerns. If the right hon. Lady writes to me about that, I will be happy to meet her to discuss it further.
Luke Akehurst (North Durham) (Lab)
I welcome the strength of the response on protecting our undersea infrastructure. The Defence Secretary has been clear that growing Russian aggression will not be tolerated here or in Ukraine. Will the Minister confirm that homeland security will be a key focus of the strategic defence review?
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We live in more difficult and uncertain times, with increasing risks to UK homeland security. That is an evolution from some of the strategic assessments in previous reviews. It is for that reason that the strategic defence review is looking not only at how we support our NATO allies, with a NATO-first approach, but at how we invest in capabilities to ensure that we are looking after the UK homeland—and, Mr Speaker, the UK homeland includes our overseas territories.
Mr Speaker
We have stretched that answer out well, haven’t we? Let us go on to Tom Tugendhat.
Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge) (Con)
Blake Stephenson (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
I thank the right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat) for his important question. He has my absolute assurance that if anyone dies in service, from training all the way through to combat and operations, they will absolutely be exempt from inheritance tax provisions. I will continue to discuss that issue, as well as many others to do with armed forces pay, with my opposite number in the Treasury. This Government are deeply proud of the armed forces, and I am deeply proud of them. They will have my full backing as we move forward.
Tom Tugendhat
First of all, I place on record my full congratulations to the hon. and gallant Member for his recent award in the new year’s honours. That is a fantastic achievement for somebody for whom I have the greatest admiration, and with whom I have served in numerous fields. May I raise the problem with his answer, however? Retention in the armed forces is already suffering; numbers are already coming down and people are struggling to make the maths add up between serving today and having a future tomorrow. The problem with these arguments and the lack of clarity from the Government is that too many people are making decisions on which we all need them to think again. We need people to serve and stay, and it is his responsibility to keep them there.
Al Carns
I thank the right hon. and gallant Member for his response. We need to take a holistic view of this. I remind him that we have missed every recruitment and retention target for the past 14 years. We are working really hard to get after that now: we have just put in place wraparound welfare, we have done the Annington Homes deal, we have put additional resources into veterans’ homes for after service, and we have given the biggest pay rise in 20 years. We are working really hard on that, in discussions with our Treasury counterparts, and we will move it forward.
Blake Stephenson
Will the Minister give an assurance that the proposed changes to the application of inheritance tax to certain armed forces death-in-service payments are compatible with the commitment in the armed forces covenant to ensuring that our brave and loyal armed forces personnel
“face no disadvantage compared to other citizens in the provision of public and commercial services”—
yes or no?
Al Carns
The covenant will come into law in the next two years or so, on the back of the armed forces Bill. That will result in a great expansion, with all Government Departments falling in line with the covenant, so that no individual who has served is disadvantaged because of that service.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
The Forces Pension Society has already stated that levying inheritance tax on death-in-service benefits would be wholly counter to the armed forces covenant, and we Conservatives wholly agree. The consultation by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs on that proposal closed on 22 January. On what day did the MOD submit its response to that key consultation—presumably in defence of service families’ interests—and will the Minister place a copy of that response in the Library?
Al Carns
May I remind the right hon. Member of my service, and of the fact that I will in no way, shape or form take this for granted? I am putting all my effort into those discussions at the moment. My officials have discussed that with the Treasury, I have discussed it with the Treasury, and we will continue to discuss such issues with the Treasury to ensure that our armed forces personnel get the deal that they deserve.
Mr Francois
I commend the Minister on his Distinguished Service Order—we all do—but in answer to a parliamentary question, we were told:
“The Ministry of Defence has not made a formal response to HM Revenue and Customs’ technical consultation.”
It really should have done. Who in their right mind would soldier for a Government who do not have their back, whether on school fees, lawfare or inheritance tax, or worse, do not have the back of their family if they die unmarried and in service?
Al Carns
Scoring political points on the back of armed forces families is unacceptable. This is a public consultation, and it is not the Government’s responsibility to answer it. We have discussed this Department to Department, from both an official perspective and a ministerial perspective, and we will continue to do so. We will bring this to a close.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
I held the first call with the new US Secretary of Defence, Pete Hegseth, last month. We discussed the importance of all NATO allies doing more, including on defence spending. I look forward to meeting Secretary Hegseth this week at the meeting of NATO Defence Ministers.
Wendy Chamberlain
Members of this House have raised concerns about the impact on Ukraine of both the new US Administration and continuing Russian aggression. Can the Secretary of State assure me that he will use the upcoming Munich security conference to determine with allies the best way of ensuring Ukraine’s victory?
John Healey
I can indeed. I welcome the fact, as I think will the hon. Lady, that the new US Defence Secretary is spending his third full week in office in Europe. He has made it clear that he wants to discuss how to strengthen alliances, how to expand our defence industries on both sides of the Atlantic, and how to boost allied defence spending, including on Ukraine. That is something we all agree on.
Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s answer, but in the face of wider Russian aggression, could he expand on what conversations he has already had with NATO counterparts about how NATO can respond appropriately to the threat from Russia?
John Healey
I can indeed. Everyone in NATO, including every one of the European allies within NATO, is ready and is stepping up on Euro-Atlantic security. This Wednesday I will have the privilege of chairing the Ukraine defence contact group, a 50 nation-strong group in which we co-ordinate the support that Ukraine needs, because we must stay with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The Government have committed to maintain £3 billion in military aid to Ukraine this year, next year, and each year for as long as it takes.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith
I came back from Ukraine a week and a half ago. I was very close to the front and talked to many of the military commanders there, and they made it very clear to me that they were desperately short of artillery pieces, 155 mm, and, most importantly, munitions—they could hardly respond to the Russians. As I understand it, they are also short of C-RAM—counter-rocket, artillery and mortar—defence missiles, which are desperately needed to protect Ukraine’s energy sites and its civilians’ flats and houses. That hardware has been promised by many European nations, and of course by the USA—and I must say that when you are that close to the front, Mr Speaker, you realise how desperate it is there. In the light of this delay, will the Government commit the UK to at least provide the sort of weaponry that it can provide to alleviate that problem as far as humanly possible, but mostly to push our allies to do what they promised to do? From what I heard, without that hardware, Ukraine runs the risk of losing this war.
John Healey
I welcome the fact that the right hon. Gentleman went to Ukraine. He was there with my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Tim Roca), and I look forward to meeting them both later this month to discuss the detail of what they saw. From my second day in this job, when I was in Odessa with President Zelensky, I made the commitment that the UK would step up and speed up support for Ukraine, which is exactly what we have done. That will be part of the discussions we will have with other nations at the meeting I will chair on Wednesday, and I am sure it will also be part of our discussions at NATO on Thursday.
Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)
Along with many hon. Members on both sides of the House, I welcome the £3 billion commitment to Ukraine this year, next year and the year after, but there are things that we can do at home as well. For example, this weekend I hope to host a reception for Ukrainian refugees in my constituency—a Valentine’s for Ukraine that we can send from all of us to all of them and all the Ukrainians who are finding refuge in our country.
John Healey
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s action in his constituency. The UK has a proud unity on Ukraine, and it has given a proud welcome to Ukrainians under the Homes for Ukraine scheme since day one of Putin’s illegal full-scale invasion. As my hon. Friend says, nearly three years into the conflict, Valentine’s day is a useful marker to recognise the warmth of welcome from the UK people and the struggle and fight that the Ukrainian people—military and civilian alike—are waging for their freedom and their future.
David Taylor (Hemel Hempstead) (Lab)
Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)
Sarah Edwards (Tamworth) (Lab)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
The Government are delivering for Defence by addressing the deep retention and recruitment crisis that we inherited from the Conservatives. Last week I announced more detail on a brand-new fast-track cyber entry to boost UK cyber-defence, bolstering our capabilities in response to the growing threats and addressing a global shortage of cyber-talent. I also announced the award of a new contract for a tri-service armed forces recruiting service.
David Taylor
West Herts college in my constituency offers a great selection of courses, including computing courses that offer a pathway to a career in cyber-security. For young people in Hemel Hempstead considering a career in that field to defend our country, can the Minister outline further details of the steps that he took last week to boost recruitment to cyber-security in this country?
Luke Pollard
I am grateful for the enthusiasm of young people in my hon. Friend’s constituency for a career in cyber. Last week, the new cyber direct entry pathway for our armed forces was opened for the Royal Air Force and the Navy—the Army entry will come online next year. That allows people to join directly to pursue a career in cyber. By changing the entry requirements, it will bring on board the cyber-expertise that we need to keep our country safe. The frontline of the future is not tomorrow; it is today—it is the cyber-frontline. Young people across the nation should look on the Royal Navy and RAF websites at a career in cyber. It is well paid and will keep our country safe.
Peter Swallow
I welcome the news that the MOD has signed the British Dyslexia Association’s dyslexia-friendly workplace pledge. Does the Minister agree that, to address the recruitment crisis, it is vital that the armed forces remain inclusive for recruits from all backgrounds and with all experiences, while rightly continuing to demand high standards?
Luke Pollard
I am pleased to confirm that the Ministry of Defence signed the dyslexia-friendly workplace pledge at the end of last year, making us the first UK Government Department to do so. It is a fantastic step forward that signals that the MOD is a top employer for people with dyslexia. Whatever someone’s ability, there is a role for them within our armed forces, because our armed forces need people with a whole range of abilities, backgrounds and expertise to keep our nation safe.
Sarah Edwards
In my constituency we are proud to host the Defence Medical Services at Whittington. We are looking forward to a fresh date being set for a visit from my hon. Friend the Minister for Veterans and People so that he can see its brilliant work for himself. What steps is the Minister taking to build on the success of such centres of excellence in any new recruitment programmes?
Luke Pollard
It is vital that we seek to invest in Defence Medical Services, especially as we live in more difficult and contested times where we may need to use its expertise and that of the national health service across the UK to support a warfighting effort. I know the Minister for Veterans and People is looking forward to visiting Whittington later this year. I hope that when the strategic defence review comes out, my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Sarah Edwards) will see the path to investment and support that we are offering Defence Medical Services as we look to create a whole-of-society approach to our defence.
David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
Soldiers will be leaving the Army, rather than being recruited, if we continue to allow the persecution of soldiers who served in Northern Ireland. Last week’s coroner’s report into the Clonoe and Coalisland shootings was 51 pages of facts and eight pages of naïve speculation, which led right into the IRA’s attempt to rewrite the history of Northern Ireland. Without the Northern Ireland legacy legislation, how will the Secretary of State prevent that, because if he fails, what should be a process of peace and reconciliation will turn into a vindictive, vengeful pursuit of men whose only sin was to serve their country with honour, heroism and skill, and in the most terrifying conditions? If we cannot prevent that, all the recruiting efforts will fail.
Luke Pollard
I assure the right hon. Gentleman that his passion is also felt on the Government Benches, and the ministerial team want to support all our veterans. The issue that he raises is difficult for me to comment on as it is subject to ongoing legal matters, and he will appreciate that it is hard for a Minister to comment in such circumstances—
Mr Speaker
Order. I reassure the Minister that there are no legal restrictions on this case. It is not the courts; it is only a coroner.
Luke Pollard
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s question none the less. The Ministry of Defence is continuing our conversations with the Northern Ireland Office, which is the lead Department for such matters. We will continue to support our veterans, and we will continue conversations with the Northern Ireland veterans commissioner as to how we can support veterans in Northern Ireland in particular.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
Following on from the previous question, does the Minister accept that recruitment is bound to be disincentivised by a finding, 30 years on, that people who did their duty and encountered armed IRA terrorists on murderous active service, and protected the public as a consequence, find themselves vilified 30 years later by the coroner’s service? How can that be right, and what steps will the Government take to protect our armed forces not just now but going into the future, including what happened in the past?
Luke Pollard
This is a matter that the Ministry of Defence has discussed today with the Northern Ireland Office—it is a Northern Ireland Office lead, and we will be working closely with it on that. Announcements have already been made in relation to this by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, and I reassure the hon. and learned Gentleman that a career in the armed forces is a brilliant career for anyone looking at it. This Government will continue to support those people who serve, and those who have served, to ensure that they get all the support they need to defend our country in service, and benefit from that service after they have left uniform.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Further to the points made by right hon. and hon. Members, if we are going to have recruitment, we need to have protection. If we are to have protection, we must ensure that the disgraceful scenes—the SAS killed four IRA men who were returning from a bombing and shooting attack on a police station, trying to kill. The SAS were confronted by those killers, murderers, terrorist scum that they are, who were armed to the teeth with a machine gun that could fire 500 rounds in a minute and an AK-47. Is it not right that our soldiers should be protected? They were confronted by the enemy. That enemy was never going to surrender, and they got their just deserts.
Luke Pollard
I reassure the hon. Gentleman that we on the Government Benches share the same passion that all veterans should get the support they need. We will continue to discuss that aspect with our Northern Ireland Office colleagues, who take the lead on this matter. I encourage him to continue to raise questions, because it is important that we support all our veterans, no matter where they served across the United Kingdom. That is a matter that the Secretary of State and I, as well as the Minister for Veterans and People, will continue to discuss with colleagues across the Government.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
If we want to strengthen our armed forces, we must fix the recruitment delays. One young recruit signer, Jimmy, applied in September 2023 but will not start until January 2025. That is largely due to medical record hold-ups and poor communication. I welcome the aim for applicants to receive a decision within 10 days, and a training start date within 30 days, but how will Serco deliver that in practice? What safeguards will be in place to ensure that recruits get clear, timely responses and are not lost in the system?
Luke Pollard
The hon. Lady is right that we need to speed up the recruitment process. We inherited a situation where it takes, on average, more than 250 days from the point of application to turning up at a training establishment, often without any understanding of how long that will take. That is why the Secretary of State introduced the 10/30 policy, which means a provisional offer within 10 days of starting, and a provisional start date within 30 days of application. We are doing that to reduce the time of flight, including working cross-Government to improve speed of access to medical records. There will be further announcements in due course. We are making progress on that, but there is a lot more to do to fix the damage to the recruitment process that was run by the last Government.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
The Afghan resettlement programme is a cross-Government delivery programme that will bring existing resettlement schemes into one single pipeline. Under such schemes, more than 30,000 eligible Afghans have relocated to the UK. As confirmed in my recent written parliamentary answer to the hon. Gentleman, it is not possible to provide a breakdown of relocation figures by job role, including those who worked directly for British forces.
Ben Obese-Jecty
Having admitted 30,000 Afghans into the country as part of the Afghan resettlement programme, it is concerning to learn that the Ministry of Defence has no idea how many of them actually ever worked for British forces. The Government’s own figures estimate the total number of local Afghans employed by British forces during Op Herrick to be around 7,000, only 2,850 of whom worked as interpreters and translators on the frontline—a fraction of the 30,000. If the MOD does not know why they are eligible to be let into the country, the MOD presumably also does not know who they are or what they have been doing in Afghanistan over the past decade. Can the Minister confirm that the Afghan resettlement programme has not been exploited by criminal, terrorist or hostile state influence?
Luke Pollard
Can I thank the hon. Gentleman not just for that question, but for his ongoing interest in this area? We owe a debt of gratitude to those people who served alongside our forces in Afghanistan. This programme was started by the last Government, and this Government are proud to continue it. Everyone who is brought to safety in the UK from the Taliban under the Afghan schemes has been vetted in relation to that. There are a variety of roles that cover support to our armed forces in relation to our UK mission in Afghanistan, but I can reassure him that I pay close attention to this area. If he would like to meet to discuss this further, to deepen his interest and to help him in his inquiries, I am happy to do so.
Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
Why do we support a more diverse military? It is simple: it makes us better, it makes us think differently and, importantly, it means the military represents the society we are trying to protect. Since coming into government, we have launched our Raising our Standards programme. We are seeking to make Defence the most attractive employer for all walks of society. I will be unequivocally clear that the underlying principle for why we pursue a more diverse military, better welfare, better housing, and better kit and equipment, is simply to ensure that we can call upon our men and women to do their job and that they can close with the enemy and win.
Dr Pinkerton
In 2019, the Wigston review identified that serving personnel from ethnic minority backgrounds are subject to higher levels of harassment and bullying than their white British counterparts. Given the recent success of the Atherton review, which cast light on the structural challenges faced by women in the armed forces, and given that 16% of the British Army workforce comes from ethnic minority groups, does the ministerial team think it might be time to have an Atherton-style review, independent of the MOD, into the challenges faced by ethnic minority groups to ensure and enhance recruitment, retention and promotional opportunities?
Al Carns
I thank the hon. Member for his useful comments. We have launched our Raising our Standards programme, which will take standards from where they were and raise them. We will make Defence the most inclusive career and, indeed, the most rewarding for any part of society to join. The Defence Committee will hold us to account on some of that. When the covenant comes into place, that will also cover certain elements of standards, too.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
Recent weeks have seen troubling headlines for LGBT personnel, and we on the Lib Dem Benches believe that everyone is welcome in our armed forces, regardless of their sexual orientation, ethnicity or gender identity. Can the Minister outline what steps have been taken to promote the British values of inclusion, particularly for the LGBT community, among our NATO allies? Will the Minister provide an update on the compensation scheme for LGBT veterans who were impacted by the military’s anti-gay ban?
Al Carns
When we started the Etherton review, a lot of engagement went out across some of our NATO allies to take best practice. Now that we have launched the programme, we are also making sure that people can understand the successes and perhaps some of the improvements as it progresses. As the House will know, the Defence Secretary announced our findings from the Etherton review on 12 December, with a 50% increase in the financial redress system for those affected by the LGBT ban. Things are now heading in the right direction, with more than 500 people starting the application process.
Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
The new medium helicopter competition is at the evaluation and approval stage. If everything goes well, I anticipate a contract award later this year, subject to all the usual approvals.
Edward Morello
A significant number of my constituents contribute to the defence sector, whether through apprenticeships, graduate roles or skilled employment. Many were schooled in West Dorset and now work in the surrounding areas, including for firms such as Leonardo in the neighbouring constituency of Yeovil. What assurances can the Minister give that contracts such as the new medium helicopter will be awarded quickly so that the futures of the many apprentices and employees in the defence sector are protected?
Maria Eagle
The hon. Gentleman is right: some of these programmes can take a long time to get to contract. In fact, this programme experienced delays in securing outline business case approval under the previous Government. I hope that we can get it to the end of the line as swiftly as possible, in accordance with the current process, and that some of his constituents will benefit from having work to do on the new programme.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
We inherited a retention and recruitment crisis, which must be addressed across all different cohorts. Increasing female representation benefits our warfighting and readiness, but we are still some way from where the hon. Lady and I would like us to be on the issue. The latest figures from October 2024 show 11.9% female representation in the regular forces and 15.9% in the reserves.
Sarah Dyke
A balanced workforce in the armed forces is good for British defence, but women still face a raft of challenges, making it harder to attract and retain female talent. What steps is the Minister taking to accelerate progress towards the women in defence charter ambition of 30%, and to make the armed forces a better workplace for women?
Luke Pollard
This is an important topic, and it really matters. Implementing the recommendations of the Atherton review and raising standards, as the Minister for Veterans and People has spoken about, will benefit everyone in the armed forces, but women in particular. We need to improve culture and behaviour, and focus on women’s health and wellbeing. New policies are being brought forward to address that. We are also standing up more work on calling out crimes and behaviour that is unacceptable in our armed forces. Everyone should have a place in our armed forces, because defending our country requires a whole-of-society approach. We must not neglect any part of society.
Sarah Bool (South Northamptonshire) (Con)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
I reassure the hon. Member that I work closely with my Northern Ireland, Welsh and Scottish commissioners. We are currently looking at the structures by which we support veterans across the whole tapestry of the United Kingdom, and we really want to put in place an institutional resilience system that gives the best care at the right time and in the right place to the right people. That primarily involves working with thousands of charities collaboratively and coherently to ensure that we can get the best bang for our buck from all the amazing volunteers and charitable services out there. A bigger review is going on. It is on hold at the moment, and we will let the House know more in due course.
Sarah Bool
I am proud that my constituency of South Northamptonshire hosts the largest armed forces gathering of its kind in the UK. The national transition event at Silverstone on 24 February, now in its sixth year, is run by the charities Mission Motorsport and Mission Community. The event recognises, demonstrates and celebrates the value of our veterans and armed forces community. As the Secretary of State develops the veterans strategy, are community-led approaches such as this part of the Department’s thinking, and how might we support such organisations in their work?
Al Carns
Absolutely. I just travelled to the north-east of England and hit three different councils, looking at the different ways in which they deal with the veterans issue. I am really looking forward to the launch event, which will have a variety of different race cars. I just hope that I do not get to see the mudflaps when I am there.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
On behalf of us all, I wish our UK team in Canada good luck for the Invictus games. This week, I will have the privilege of chairing the 50-nation Ukraine defence contact group. I will also attend the meeting of NATO Defence Ministers, and then the Munich security conference.
Mr Speaker, 2025 is the critical year for the war in Ukraine. The world is watching, and it is imperative that all allies step up their support. I am proud of the UK’s continued unity and leadership on Ukraine. This year, the UK will provide £4.5 billion in military aid—more than ever before. Our commitment is absolute. We will strengthen Ukraine on the battlefield and at any negotiating table. I am grateful to continue to have the support of both sides of the House. Together, we will stand with the people of Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Graeme Downie
US navy officials have reported increased Russian and Chinese patrols in the High North. Last week, the Danish navy announced plans to acquire three new Arctic patrol ships, and March will see one of the largest Exercise Joint Viking operations in NATO’s history. With these concerns in mind, will the Secretary of State confirm which UK assets will be involved in Joint Viking this year? What plans does he have to update the 2022 policy paper on the UK’s defence contribution in the High North?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right about the High North. We will continue to maintain a strong defence profile and posture. Both the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary will be taking part in Exercise Joint Viking.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
Surely, one of the most important lessons from the war in Ukraine for our own military base is the urgent need to fire up the defence industry and increase its capacity. However, today we learned from ADS that British defence manufacturers will be hit with a £600 million tax rise this Parliament from higher national insurance. Why are the Government prioritising higher taxes on defence instead of higher defence spending?
John Healey
On the contrary, we are backing British industry. We are looking for firms that can design, invent and make in Britain—a big change from the industrial policy under the previous Government. I was in Derby recently to announce an eight-year contract for Rolls-Royce that will support more than 1,000 apprentices—200 each year—and thousands of small businesses in supply chains across the country.
James Cartlidge
I know all about the Unity deal because, as the Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry said, I negotiated it. This is extraordinary complacency on tax from the Secretary of State. The Government are taxing not just the defence industry but the education of defence people’s children and death-in-service payments. The fact is that the Defence Secretary is under “a tax” from all sides. The question is: is that how the Government will pay for their Chagos deal?
John Healey
We stepped up and accelerated the negotiations to conclude the Rolls-Royce contract, and I was able to announce it the other week to apprentices and management at Rolls-Royce. We are putting nearly £3 billion extra into defence this year. We recognise, as everyone does, that we must increase defence spending. We will return UK defence spending to a level that we have not seen since Labour was last in government in 2010, directing it first and foremost to British industry.
Laura Kyrke-Smith (Aylesbury) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
I am very happy to acknowledge my hon. Friend’s point. I met many apprentices late last week at the launch of National Apprenticeship Week. Whichever factory I visit, I meet apprentices—young men and women—who are thrilled by the opportunities that a career in defence gives them. They all have smiles on their faces and futures in front of them. It is great that National Apprenticeship Week highlights all that.
John Cooper (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
There is a long-standing deal with other nations on the welfare of families and so on. This Government are supporting our armed forces community. We will pay 90% through the CEA. We have given service personnel the biggest pay rise, and we are addressing the recruitment and retention crisis that we were left with.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
Maria Eagle
I am more than happy to join my hon. Friend in making those points. He is right that we must fully support defence companies and their personnel, and we must ensure that universities such as Keele, and all others across the further and higher education sectors, welcome defence firms at their careers fairs.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
John Healey
Mr Speaker, we have the commitment and we have the plan.
Chris Bloore (Redditch) (Lab)
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The visit to Redditch was truly enlightening; the charitable sector there is doing amazing work to support veterans in his constituency. I fully champion the breakfast clubs they are putting on.
Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)
John Healey
We are setting out to reset relations with key European allies. We have said we will look to co-operate more closely with the European Union where that is in British interests and where we can add to the defence and security arrangements for Europe as a whole. We have struck some deep new bilateral agreements, such as the Trinity House agreement with Germany. We have to see our British industry not just as producing the kit our forces need, but as an essential part of our deterrence that, alongside allies, deters aggression.
Josh Simons (Makerfield) (Lab)
Al Carns
National resilience and defence in depth is essential as we move forward, when the threat is transferred from non-state actors to state actors across the globe. When the strategic defence review comes out in the next couple of the months—in the spring—Members will see that that is a central tenet throughout.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
Last week, the Gurkha class of 2025 proudly attested in Pokhara. There is one part of the British armed forces that does not yet have women: the Brigade of Gurkhas. Will Ministers do what—sadly, and not for the want of trying—I failed to do, and rectify that omission?
Al Carns
I served with the Gurkhas on various tours in Afghanistan and across the world. They are some of the best forces we have, and they do a fantastic job upholding the freedoms we enjoy. I will continue to work with the Gurkhas, and I look forward to meeting their ambassador here very soon to discuss issues such as this.
Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
Al Carns
We just talked about resilience and defence in depth. The cadets provide an example of where we can bring society and defence together to help people understand the benefits of defence. It gives them some great examples, from courage to commitment, dedication, drive and, indeed, becoming a net contributor to society. I fully support it.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Are the Government doing any forward thinking—[Laughter.] No, I am being serious—about what will happen when the shooting stops with a ceasefire agreement in Ukraine? Wherever the border between free and occupied Ukraine finally forms will become the new frontline for Europe, so what provision are we making, even now, to be able to secure the future shape and safety of Europe?
John Healey
Despite the titters on his own side, the right hon. Gentleman makes a really important point. At the point at which Ukraine decides to talk instead of, or as well as, fight, security guarantees will need to be in place to ensure that Russia does not resume its aggression. In Washington last year, the NATO allies made a commitment that Ukraine is on an irreversible path to NATO membership, but there will be a period when during the talks, just as in the fight, they will require our support. We are giving that detailed discussion now.
Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
On Thursday, my hon. and gallant Friend the Minister for Veterans and People came to my constituency for an important discussion on veterans’ mental health. May I ask him for his reflections on that discussion and on what actions he will be taking moving forward?
Al Carns
First of all, I thank my hon. Friend for hosting a fantastic get-together with veterans, bereaved families and the charitable sector. I learned a huge amount from the visit. I looked again at how councils are delivering support to veterans, which I can contrast and compare with other visits, and will come out with a plan in due course.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Secretary of State will have heard the exchanges earlier about the grave injustice and slur that was delivered upon SAS personnel in the coroner’s judgment last week, following the incidents in Clonoe. Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to indicate not only to the House but to service personnel and the nation that he, as Defence Secretary, supports those who bravely served in Northern Ireland and stood on the precipice between peace and tyranny?
John Healey
I am glad to accept the right hon. Gentleman’s invitation to do just that. It behoves us all to remember that those who served in our forces in Northern Ireland were part of a campaign that led to more deaths of UK security personnel in Northern Ireland than in Afghanistan. They deserve, and they will have, our fullest support.
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
As seems to be the consensus of the House, our support for Ukraine must remain unwavering in the face of Putin’s war of nationalist aggression. I am proud that this country retrofits Storm Shadow missiles in my constituency. With an increasingly unstable geopolitical situation, does the Secretary of State agree that full co-operation with our NATO allies to defend Ukraine and guarantee the security of Europe continues to be integral in the defence of our own country?
John Healey
My hon. Friend points to one of the major items for discussion on Wednesday at the Ukraine defence contact group, and one of the main concerns of NATO and the new Secretary-General, which is to boost the capacity of the European defence industry.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
The Eskdalemuir seismic array in my constituency monitors compliance with the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty. At the moment, there is a restriction on wind farm development in the vicinity of the array, but wind farm developers are lobbying hard to have those restrictions relaxed. Can Ministers give a guarantee that they will not be relaxed if there is any suggestion that that would interfere with the array’s effectiveness?
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I was dealing with this issue before I came to the House earlier today. Supporting our national security is the No. 1 priority of the Government. We need to keep our nation safe. There is a variety of means by which we do so, and the array is an important contributor. I would be very happy to meet him to discuss the details of the issue he raises.
Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)
As the Minister pointed out earlier, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service has taken a prominent role in protecting our subsea infrastructure. I welcome the settlement of the RFA pay dispute. Will that help the Minister to tackle the recruitment and retention crisis that saw numbers of RFA seafarers fall by 30% under the previous Government?
Luke Pollard
It is vital that we value the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, and we have done so by settling the pay dispute and making it very clear that there is a bright future for seafarers in the RFA. Its work with RFA Proteus in relation to the Yantar has been exceptional, but each and every day those seafarers are supporting our Royal Navy on global operations. They have the support of our ministerial team, and I am sure that they have the support of Members on both sides of the House.
Brian Mathew (Melksham and Devizes) (LD)
With the Russians using drones to drop CS gas into the trenches of the Donbas, and Avon Protection in my constituency ready to manufacture the residue of the 300,000 gas masks that Ukraine requested, will the Government put in an order as soon as possible, please?
Maria Eagle
We have taken many steps to try to improve the capabilities of the Ukrainians when it comes to drone technology, and I am perfectly happy to look at the point that the hon. Gentleman has raised.
Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)
Portsmouth is the home of the Royal Navy, but it is also the proud home of many companies in the defence sector: BAE, Airbus and Accuracy International, to name just a few. Those companies provide fantastic job opportunities for my constituents, but they have faced real difficulties in the last decade. What steps is the Department taking to support our defence sector in the UK and in Portsmouth in particular—both the businesses themselves and the recruitment and training of the skilled workforce—as part of our Government’s industrial strategy?
Maria Eagle
I look forward to meeting my hon. Friend shortly when I visit some of those businesses in her constituency. The defence industrial strategy is the way in which we will seek to deal with the issues that she has raised.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
My constituent Owen was medically discharged from the Army after 17 years of service. Since then, he has been waiting for two years for a resolution of his claim under the armed forces compensation scheme. Does the Minister agree that that is too long to make a veteran wait, and what advice can he give me so that I can resolve my constituent’s case?
Al Carns
We are absolutely a Government who support veterans. If the hon. Gentleman will send me the details of that case, I will look into it personally. We pay out over £1 billion in compensation, and I have been to Norcross to ensure best standards up there.
Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)
I recently visited the Royal Orthopaedic hospital in my constituency, which has an outstanding veterans’ care service. Does the Minister agree that it is essential for former and current service personnel in Birmingham and beyond to continue to have access to specialised musculoskeletal rehabilitation services?
Al Carns
Absolutely. Birmingham has a cluster of fantastic hospital and medical care facilities, as well as the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine. I would love to visit, and I hope I can do so in due course.
Suella Braverman (Fareham and Waterlooville) (Con)
I think I am right in saying that I am the only Member of the House of Commons, if not Parliament as a whole, to have Mauritian heritage; if I am wrong about that, I am happy to be corrected. Why does the Secretary of State not see that the proposed deal between the United Kingdom and Mauritius is a dangerous one because of the increase in China’s access to the islands near Diego Garcia, an unaffordable one—whether it is £9 billion, £18 billion or £52 billion, that is money that should go to our armed forces—and, above all, a humiliating one in the eyes of the Mauritians, the Americans and the international community? Why will he not scrap it?
John Healey
The deal with the Mauritians is designed to secure the long-term operation and the legal base, and to guarantee our ability and that of our allies in the US to continue to operate from Diego Garcia for at least the next century.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
Earlier in topical questions, the Veterans Minister said that the strategic defence review would be published in the next couple of months. Can he confirm that it will be published by the end of April?
Al Carns
It is a fair correction. I said “in a couple of months” and then “in the spring”.