Oral Answers to Questions
Pat McFadden Excerpts(3 days, 6 hours ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
My hon. Friend and parliamentary neighbour is absolutely right to raise the importance of having a civil service presence around the country. He will know the importance of the Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local Government presence in Wolverhampton to the local area. We want to see half of our UK-based senior civil servants located outside London by 2030. We recently announced plans to relocate thousands of civil service roles to towns and cities across the whole UK.
Warinder Juss
I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. I do indeed feel blessed to have the dual head- quarters of the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, which employs more than 250 people, right next to my constituency office in Wolverhampton West. I welcome the Government’s plans to move civil servant roles out of London into communities such as mine. Will my right hon. Friend please set out how these roles will work closely with businesses, the City of Wolverhampton council and communities in my constituency, as well as help my constituents to pursue careers as civil servants?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend raises some good points. We do not just want to see buildings with no connection to the local community; it is important that they have that connection. I also want to ensure good career progression in civil service buildings outside London. I recently announced a new civil service apprenticeship scheme so that we can recruit people from all backgrounds to the civil service and make sure that they can get promoted and enjoy a good civil service career.
Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)
The last Government saw civil servant jobs relocated not just to Wolverhampton, but to Stoke-on-Trent. It is important that the very top level of the civil service is also located outside of London, so will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out how many permanent secretaries are currently located permanently outside London? What steps will he take to ensure that more permanent secretaries are located in both Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent?
Pat McFadden
We do not have a permanent secretary in Wolverhampton, but it is important that there is career progression and that there are senior roles outside London. That should include permanent secretaries, and that should all come within our target of half of UK-based senior civil servants being located outside London by 2030.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
Heads of Departments have said that 60% attendance in the office is the best balance for civil servants working in Government Departments, but in an answer to a recent written parliamentary question from my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood), the Cabinet Office said that no data exists for attendance outside London HQs—it is certainly not collected centrally. However, the Office for National Statistics has produced data about its own workforce, which, via the UK Statistics Authority, comes under the Cabinet Office. That shows a daily attendance rate of as little as 3% in some of the ONS’s regional offices. Does the Minister think that an attendance rate of 3% will help career progression and thereby help relocate civil servants outside London? Does he think that 3% is acceptable? Is this not just part of a wider pattern of non-attendance in offices outside London, and is it not time his Department published the data on attendance levels?
Pat McFadden
There have been problems at the Office for National Statistics. We launched a report into it, which has recently reported, and there will be a change in the leadership of the Office for National Statistics, as the right hon. Gentleman is aware. That report highlighted the number of people not working in the office—a pattern that emerged when his party was in power. I hope that the new leadership addresses every part of the recent report into the ONS.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Government recently announced a number of measures to reform the civil service, including cutting up to 10,000 jobs and relocating thousands of roles across the country. These reforms are vast in scope and could have a significant impact on public services, but the Government do not seem particularly interested in setting out to Parliament the details of the changes. This House has not been given any clarity to enable proper scrutiny of which roles will be moved, cut or otherwise changed. When will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster present his full plans on civil service reform to Parliament?
Pat McFadden
On 14 May, the Government announced the launch of new thematic campuses in Aberdeen and Manchester and the closure of 11 buildings, and reaffirmed the commitment on relocating 50% of senior roles outside London, which I just mentioned. The hon. Lady says these are vast commitments, but I think we need to go faster. Reform of the state is essential, and those commitments will not be the end of civil service and state reform.
Tony Vaughan (Folkestone and Hythe) (Lab)
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Our plan for change is already delivering for the British people, as the Minister without Portfolio, my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham West and East Dulwich (Ellie Reeves), has just said: wages up more in the first 10 months of our Government than in 10 years under the previous Government; a new nuclear age with £14 billion committed to building Sizewell C as a critical part of our clean energy transition; and NHS waiting lists down by more than 200,000 for the first time in years. What a contrast to the record of the Conservatives.
Mr Mohindra
Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster reassure the House that once he has actually started publishing the tracking dashboard for the plan for change, the six milestones will not go the same way as the three foundations, the six first steps for change, the five missions and the seven pillars of growth, and that it will not be abandoned and replaced when the Government realise they are missing their targets?
Pat McFadden
If the hon. Gentleman wants more facts about delivery, let me help him out right now. Last week we launched the biggest social and affordable housing programme in a generation, meeting a need that has been unmet for years in this country; we have extended free school meals to half a million more children; and this year, we will be putting 3,000 more neighbourhood police back on the beat. I am very happy to give the hon. Gentleman all the figures he wants.
Joe Robertson
Given that the Government’s plan for change tracking dashboard is still in development, can I ask the Minister to include a column or facility to track all the U-turns—or, as the Government may prefer to call it, “The Changes to the Plan for Change (Subject to Change)”? That way, the public can see where those U-turns have taken place, such as on winter fuel payments, the grooming gangs inquiry and welfare reform. It would also help Labour Back Benchers to keep up with the Government’s current position.
Pat McFadden
I hear a cry for more delivery statistics, so let me help the hon. Member out. We have also recruited 1,500 new GPs, deported 30,000 people with no right to be here, and expanded free school meals to lift 100,000 children out of poverty. He is welcome.
Rebecca Smith
The Government are clearly very happy to claim that all is rosy after their first year in power, yet on the ground in my constituency and around the country, the opposite story is being told. The Government’s policies are hitting my constituents hard—whether it is the impact of increased national insurance contributions on local charities, the prospect of more red tape for landlords, or moving the goalposts for the most vulnerable. Given the Government’s amazing claims, why are they so reticent to share the plan for change metrics in one place, so that the good people up and down the United Kingdom can see the reality of this Labour Government in hard facts?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Lady seems to want more delivery stats, so let me help her out. As my right hon. Friend, the Minister without Portfolio, said, we have had the highest growth of any G7 economy in the first quarter of this year, cuts in interest rates and an expansion of the warm home discount, which will mean that 6 million households will benefit from better insulated houses. I do not claim, in reading out these statistics, that everything is perfect—far from it—but I do believe that we have had change in the past year: change in the investment pattern of the country; change in real wages; and change in our trading position. That is change well worth having.
Irene Campbell (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
Alex McIntyre (Gloucester) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Last month, on behalf of the Prime Minister, I made a statement in the House announcing the national security strategy. That coincided with the NATO summit attended by the Prime Minister. At its heart, the strategy has three pillars: security at home, strength abroad and increasing our sovereign and asymmetric capabilities. My Department will lead on the co-ordination of that work, which applies not just in the Cabinet Office but right across Government.
Alex McIntyre
Cyber-security is vital, not just to our national security but to safeguarding our public services, so I am delighted that the Government are investing in the sector through their cyber growth action plan. Some of that investment is going into my neighbouring town, Cheltenham, but there are so many fantastic opportunities, and potential opportunities, in my city of Gloucester. Will my right hon. Friend meet me to discuss how my constituents can access those opportunities and secure the well-paid, high-skilled jobs of the future?
Pat McFadden
Recent events have shown just how important cyber-security is. We have over 2,000 businesses across the UK generating revenues of an estimated £13 billion and 67,000 jobs in this field. We are also a large exporter of cyber-products. The truth is that we need training and capability in this new area of defence. I am happy to ensure that my hon. Friend gets a meeting with a relevant Minister.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
The BBC covered the Government’s publication of the national security strategy last month with the headline “UK must prepare for war scenario”. Often, the public will read an alarming headline like that without reading about the context, or about what it might mean for them or what they should do about it. Will the Government draw on academic expertise, such as that at the Centre for the Public Understanding of Defence and Security at the University of Exeter, in engaging with our constituents on this subject?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member makes a very good point about engagement with the public. Anyone who has watched the news in recent years will know that the defence picture across Europe is changing. I made a statement to the House earlier this week on the importance of resilience. Resilience is not just a matter for Government, although the Government do have their responsibilities; it is a whole-of-society effort, and it will require proper dialogue and communication with the public.
Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)
Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Since our last oral questions session, my Department has announced that companies that win contracts for major infrastructure projects will be rewarded for creating high-quality British jobs and boosting skills in local communities. We set out our national security strategy to protect security at home, promote UK strength abroad and increase our sovereign capabilities. Earlier this week, we published our resilience action plan, which included details of a new test of the national alarm system to come in September.
Emma Foody
The Government’s changes to the Green Book in place-based business cases are positive for regions like the north-east. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out how the Cabinet Office will support cross-departmental work on identifying test cases, such as the Moor Farm and Seaton Burn roundabouts in my constituency, where infrastructure is holding back growth and housing and is needed to help the Government achieve our growth and housing missions?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is a brilliant champion for her community. It is precisely because this Government want to support growth in communities like hers that the Chancellor has set out that the new Green Book will support place-based business cases. Rapid work is happening to deliver that over the coming months.
Pat McFadden
We all know the rules for civil servants. I think I know who he is referring to, and let me anticipate the hon. Member’s next question: the person is doing a wonderful job.
Alex Burghart
Well, I will just fill in the House. For those who are not as well informed as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, the simple fact is that senior civil servants should not be engaged in public fundraising from public speaking for political parties. It has been reported that on 23 June, Lord Mandelson, who the Government classify as a senior civil servant, spoke at a Labour fundraising event. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster assure the House that this breach will be properly investigated and treated?
Pat McFadden
I believe there has been correspondence to the Cabinet Secretary about this. He will reply in due course, but let me add this: Lord Mandelson is doing an excellent job as our ambassador to the United States. He was integral to the negotiation of the trade agreement with the United States and is a great asset to the Government and the country.
Chris Webb (Blackpool South) (Lab)
Alison Griffiths (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)
Pat McFadden
As I said a few moments ago, the recent cyber-attacks have been a wake-up call to Government, business and the whole of society. This is part of our national defence, and it is taken extremely seriously. The National Cyber Security Centre works with victims of these attacks and gives advice in peacetime, as it were, as to how businesses can best defend themselves against these rogue operators who try to extort them.
Leigh Ingham (Stafford) (Lab)
I was recently made aware by GE Vernova that its UK-based, lower-cost bid for the eastern green link 3 was passed over in favour of a higher-cost overseas supplier. Would the Minister meet me and GE Vernova to discuss current procurement policy and whether it does enough to support UK manufacturing and to ensure our energy security and net zero commitments?
Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)
Can the Minister confirm the amount of money that has been saved as a result of the changes I brought in to the equality, diversity and inclusion guidance in the civil service? Will he also say if he will be maintaining those changes, or does he seek to overturn that policy?
Pat McFadden
I am not seeking to overturn that, but we want to have a system where we uphold the equality law that applies to the civil service, just as it applies throughout the public sector.
Clive Efford (Eltham and Chislehurst) (Lab)
Further to the answer given by the Paymaster General regarding the contaminated blood inquiry, I welcome that he will update the House when he has had an opportunity to digest yesterday’s report, but can I have an assurance from him that it will not be on the last sitting day before recess?
Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)
I think the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and I are politically completely at one, because if it was down the two of us, we would relocate all civil servants to Wolverhampton and Staffordshire. What is also incredibly important is Ministers being in those offices. Will he commit to publishing the details of ministerial attendance in offices outside London, including how long they stayed in those offices?
Pat McFadden
I am not sure I will. While Ministers should attend on occasion, Ministers having to be in a certain place just to keep up with a published record is not the best use of their time. I very much welcome civil servants working in Wolverhampton. The Cabinet Office has a fantastic building in Glasgow, which I have enjoyed visiting and working in on several occasions.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
I was disappointed that the UK Government did not go ahead with proposals for a Glasgow campus for UK Government offices. One reason behind that proposal was upgrading the facilities available to Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office staff who are located at Abercrombie House in East Kilbride, which had been assessed as lacking the facilities required to be a second FCDO headquarters. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster work with the FCDO to ensure that that investment goes into Abercrombie House so that it can be a second headquarters?
Pat McFadden
If the right hon. Gentleman’s ambition is to move the staff out of East Kilbride, he should perhaps have a word with my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride and Strathaven (Joani Reid). We have good locations in both Glasgow and East Kilbride, and we welcome them both. To refer to the previous question, I recently spent time working in the East Kilbride office. I hope that it is a good home for civil servants for some time to come.
Grenfell Tower: Procurement Act 2023 Investigations
Pat McFadden Excerpts(3 days, 6 hours ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
We will never forget the 72 lives lost following the Grenfell Tower tragedy eight years ago. The Government are grateful to Sir Martin Moore-Bick and the Grenfell Tower inquiry team for laying bare the truths in their reports.
When the Grenfell Tower inquiry published its final report, the Prime Minister made clear the whole Government’s commitment to pursuing full accountability, including through the criminal justice process. Further to the statement made by the Parliamentary Secretary, Minister Gould, on 26 February 2025, formal notices were issued to the seven suppliers named in that statement commencing debarment investigations under new powers in section 60 of the Procurement Act 2023.
Since that notification, my officials have been working to progress these investigations, which has included seeking views from relevant stakeholders. The Crown Prosecution Service and the Metropolitan Police Service have made me aware that they have significant concerns that the debarment investigations could lead to unintentional prejudice to both the criminal investigation and to any future criminal proceedings and the Government have accepted their representations that the criminal investigation must take priority.
At the request of the CPS and MPS, I have therefore decided to pause these seven debarment investigations until criminal investigations and any prosecutions are concluded. I recognise that this decision will feel like yet another delay in the community’s long wait for justice, and I have not taken this decision lightly. I understand how important the criminal investigation is to the bereaved families, survivors and the wider community, which is why I am taking this action to protect the integrity of any subsequent criminal proceedings in pursuit of delivering justice. The Government fully support the MPS in its investigation.
The debarment investigations are being paused without any conclusion having been reached. The pause does not in any way prevent contracting authorities from making their own decisions in respect of the eligibility of these suppliers to bid in their procurements and be awarded public contracts, provided they do so in accordance with the Act. The Government remain committed to holding organisations to account and I am considering what other steps can be taken to ensure meaningful action to address failings related to the Grenfell Tower fire. We will continue to engage with the MPS and CPS to ensure any future action does not impede the work of the police.
If the criminal process results in convictions, where appropriate, I will recommence or launch new investigations which may enable stronger action in relation to procurement than could be taken at the present time. The Government will continue to address all of the inquiry’s recommendations and the issues the tragedy exposed.
[HCWS802]
Government Resilience Action Plan
Pat McFadden Excerpts(5 days, 6 hours ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I will update the House on the Government’s resilience action plan.
We are living through a period of profound change: upheaval in the international order, conflicts raging in the middle east, a war being waged on the continent of Europe and old norms overturned on what feels like a daily basis. Against that backdrop, the Government’s first duty of keeping the public safe becomes all the more important. Resilience is a measure of deep strength and, at the same time, a measure of insurance.
By deep strength, I mean fundamentals such as a good NHS, a strong spirit of community, a secure energy system and good flood defences. All those things increase our national resilience. We saw the vulnerabilities exposed by the covid pandemic in the NHS and in the different impact it had on different workers, ethnic minorities and members of the community. Resilience has to be for all, not just for some.
By insurance, I mean the emergency systems, scientific capability, scale-up capability and other measures we would need in a crisis. Everyone knows they need insurance, but we also know that no one spends their whole income on it. That is true for a country, too. By definition, preparation for the worst has to sit alongside the week-to-week provision of the essential services that government run. There is no perfectly correct answer to the balance between those two things. What is certain is that the Government have to think through the scenarios and try to ensure that the country is as well prepared as possible.
Today we set out how we will do that with the publication of our resilience action plan, a chronic risk analysis and an update on the UK biological security strategy. No Government can stop every risk from materialising. Every Member of this House understands that we live in a world where we are susceptible to a much wider range of risks than we were even a decade ago: cyber-attacks on household names, trade measures that can trigger fluctuations in the prices of food or household goods, power outages, the possibility of another pandemic—these risks are real and are all different.
The answer to those shared challenges lies in making all parts of society better prepared: our economy, our defences, our health systems, our infrastructure, our borders, our industrial base and our energy security. Much of it comes down to the unglamorous work of delivering improved public services. That is what we might call “deep resilience”—an NHS that is strong enough to cope, an energy system that does not leave us as exposed to the spikes in the price of oil seen in the aftermath of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and a science base that can be called into action quickly. It depends on the whole of society—business; the public sector; local, national and devolved governments; civil society; local resilience forums; and every Member of this House—all sharing in the burden and pulling in the same direction.
The action plan sets us up to do that with a focus on three areas: first, assessing on a continuous basis how resilient the UK is, so that we can effectively target interventions and resources when and where they are needed; secondly, enabling the whole of society to take action to increase its resilience, which will rely on us changing the culture around resilience by making it part of our everyday lives in practical and simple ways—be it the owner of a business introducing new cyber-defences, or a more informed public that knows what to do in order to prepare for different emergencies—and thirdly, improving core public sector resilience. We have thousands of frontline public sector workers who are integral to our resilience at a local and national level, from the employees who keep the energy grid running to local emergency responders. I pay tribute to them all.
The action plan brings together a range of policies. We have already set out our proposals to increase defence spending. We are earmarking £4.2 billion of funding for new flood defences and £370 million to secure the UK’s telecoms networks, and opening a new resilience academy in North Yorkshire that will train 4,000 people every year from the private and public sectors. Later this year, we will have the largest ever national pandemic exercise that will test the UK’s readiness for future pandemics. We are also developing a risk vulnerability map for public servants, applying one of the principal lessons of previous tragedies, which is that all too often it is the most vulnerable in our society who are hardest hit in the event of an emergency.
On top of each of those steps, the action plan and our update on the biological security strategy set out new additional measures, including a nationwide test of the UK’s emergency alert. That will take place at around 3 pm on Sunday 7 September 2025, and it will involve a notification going out to 87 million mobile phones at once. It will be the second time we have used the test on a nationwide basis. It will last for around 10 seconds. The mobile phone alert system will play a critical role in making sure that we are ready for all kinds of future emergencies. In the run-up to the test, we will work with stakeholders, including domestic violence charities, to ensure that the public has as much warning as possible. As well as the alert, we will be pushing ahead with activity to promote the Government’s “Prepare” website to help individuals, households and communities understand how they can be ready for a range of different emergencies. We continue to support local resilience forums in England because they are essential in planning for, and responding to, incidents whenever they occur.
Our biological security strategy includes £15 million from the integrated security fund to help address capability gaps across Government and beyond. That is in addition to the £1 billion of investment that we unveiled a fortnight ago for a new network of national biosecurity centres to strengthen our defences against biological incidents, accidents and attacks. The defence and security accelerator also includes £1 million for projects with universities such as Queens University Belfast and Cardiff University. My colleague the Health Secretary will publish a pandemic preparedness framework explaining how the Government are bringing together the vital scientific research needed to prepare for any future pandemic. I am also able to announce that soon the National Situation Centre and the devolved Governments will sign a memorandum of understanding to ensure that every part of the UK has the best data to prepare and respond to crises.
Those practical steps will help the UK to meet the moment when an emergency comes. Resilience is not a button to press; it comes from the realisation that we need deep strength and the ability to scale up quickly when the situation requires it. That is why the Government’s investment plans, announced in the recent spending review, and the actions outlined in this plan are so important. We will not be resilient unless we invest for the future—a stronger NHS, more and better housing, better energy security, utilising our deep research and development base—and, on top of that, have the capabilities to get going fast in an emergency. That is what this plan sets out. I commend it to the House.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for advance sight of his statement and the associated documentation. I also thank him for the date on which the UK emergency alert will be tested—he can only have chosen it to notify the country that it is my birthday. I shall very much look forward to the alarm at 3 pm.
I understand why the Government want to plan for resilience. It is understandable that the Government would want to come forward with a plan, faced with the collapsing economy, a collapsing Government, capital flight, spiralling borrowing costs and the Office for Budget Responsibility’s warning this morning that the Chancellor’s latest U-turns have left Britain more vulnerable and less able to respond to future crises. As the Minister said, the plan published today builds on the work of the previous Government on the roll-out of the national emergency alert system, the expansion of biosecurity preparedness, investment in flood protection and ensuring better cross-departmental collaboration on resilience and emergency preparedness.
The Minister said in his statement that he was looking for an assessment “on a continuous basis”. The report sets out the intention for data collection in this area, but it would be useful to hear by when that new data framework will be available for us to scrutinise. He said that he wished to enable
“the whole of society to take action”,
but I rather wonder how he intends the whole of society to find out about this. The plan calls on the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to provide guidance on developing cohesion strategies and to monitor tensions. However, that does not sit easily with the fact that the Government are not currently tackling Islamist extremism properly, that they dragged their feet on a national inquiry into grooming gangs, and that they seem to be bringing forward a highly controversial definition of Islamophobia.
The Minister referred to
“improving core public sector resilience”.
That is certainly to be welcomed, particularly on a day on which it has been announced that resident doctors have voted in favour of strikes, which will result in industrial action in January. It was notable that the plan does not mention an ability to deal with widespread industrial action. Are the Government planning for the eventuality of a general strike?
The Minister also mentioned the increase in defence spending, which we know is a form of smoke and mirrors. We understand that the 1.5% in addition to the hypothetical 3.5% includes things such as tunnels and roads, but we have not been provided with a baseline for what is currently spent in those areas. How will we know when the Government have got to 1.5%, or indeed whether they are at 1.5% already?
As the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out, the previous Government took steps to extend our capabilities and published the first UK biological security strategy. I was interested that, in this strategy, there is a reference to exploring the utility of waste water analysis, which had great success during the pandemic. Does the Minister intend to bring that back on a wide scale? It would be welcome if that was the case.
I am pleased that the Government are pressing ahead with the biothreats radar, which was a Conservative idea, but two years after our announcement there is still no go-live date. This could be a major asset to national resilience, but we need to know when it will come online. The CDL also told the House that a fully operational radar will give us near real-time warning of emerging pathogens, but the World Health Organisation is still reminding China to hand over its basic virological data on covid-19. Can he guarantee that the radar will allow the UK to independently verify when a state actor chooses to withhold or delay information?
I was interested to read about Exercise Pegasus, the preparations for pandemic exercise. However, as the Minister will know, different types of pandemic behave in different ways. Which pandemics were tested in Pegasus? Which were tested in Alkarab? It is important that the House understands what the Government are looking at in that regard.
Pat McFadden
I am grateful to the Opposition spokesman for his questions. Several things have contributed to the need for a fresh look at all of this: the experience of covid, the changing geopolitical situation and the changing threat picture. It is important to be both flexible and dynamic when considering resilience.
Let me turn to the shadow Minister’s specific points. In advance of his birthday on 7 September, I wish him many happy returns. He asked about data collection. That does not have a date; it is a constant effort. The capacity to use data in a better way today than perhaps we could have done in the past is an additional weapon in our armoury.
In terms of the whole of society finding out about this, we have good, sensible advice on gov.uk/prepare. I encourage the public to look at it, and I hope that these preparation measures become normal for people in the future. The strength of community is very important in community resilience.
The shadow Minister referred to strikes in the NHS. We have given the NHS significant financial support and made a very fair pay offer. We very much value the work that doctors do. We hope that everyone in the NHS realises that we are a Government who support the NHS and want to work with the staff, and that industrial action will contribute nothing to that goal.
The shadow Minister referred to biological security. We are making important investments into that, including the opening of the new Weybridge lab announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs a couple of weeks ago.
Exercise Pegasus has not happened yet; it will happen in the autumn. However, the shadow Minister is right on one thing: it is important not to fight the last war and assume that the next pandemic will behave in the same way as the last one. We have to be flexible in our response and ensure that we plan for different kinds of scenarios.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
I welcome this statement. The point about Exercise Pegasus reminds me of Exercise Cygnus, the findings of which, I am saddened to say, the previous Government ignored in advance of what then became the pandemic we faced. In recent weeks we have seen attacks on Marks & Spencer, the Co-op and others, and the fire at Heathrow, so this action plan is incredibly welcome. It states that the Government will develop a
“consolidated, data-driven picture of our resilience baseline”
to show how resilient the UK is at any moment, and a new cyber-resilience index that highlights the critical national infrastructure at greatest risk. Will my right hon. Friend give the Joint Committee on National Security Strategy, which I chair, access to those indices, and may I suggest that we help him in developing them?
Pat McFadden
I am grateful to the Chair of the Joint Committee on National Security Strategy for his questions. The National Cyber Security Centre has been working closely with Marks & Spencer and the other victims of recent cyber-attacks. I look forward to appearing before his Committee in a few days and working closely with it in the future.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for advance sight of the statement. The world is now less stable and more insecure than at any time since the cold war. Consequently, the Government must ensure that the British people and the United Kingdom are prepared in the event that our country or an overseas territory is threatened. The Liberal Democrats therefore welcome any measures to strengthen our resilience, especially to the cyber-security threat—a new and evolving threat against which we must be armed.
While the Liberal Democrats welcome the alert test, we call for a wider public information campaign to support resilience building across the UK, and to ensure that the public are properly ready for any potential future conflict or disaster. Perhaps we could take lessons from our Scandinavian neighbours, who are always working to address future threats and providing information to their citizens. Information should be provided through a number of different means, including leaflets and traditional broadcast.
While we welcome the alert test, websites and text alerts will miss millions of British people—those without phones, or without signal or battery—so we need to be ready on all fronts, and not just rely on single text alerts. Will the Government accept the Liberal Democrats’ call to launch a national awareness campaign that draws on different modes of contact?
I welcome the talk about being more resilient to climate emergencies. We have all seen the horrifying pictures and upsetting stories from the floods in Texas in recent days, and in this country, we have had one of the hottest starts to a summer in UK history; it is vital that the Government are not caught unawares as the temperature rises. Last week, I had a meeting in my constituency with Thames Water, which told me that it is preparing drought mitigation measures. The regular supply of water to people’s properties, businesses and agricultural land is vital to livelihoods and everyday lives. What steps are the Government taking, and perhaps putting in their new action plan, to ensure that any drought mitigation measures will not significantly impact the country in the coming months?
Pat McFadden
I welcome the hon. Lady’s questions, and join her in extending our sympathies to all those affected by the terrible events in Texas, where we saw the power of nature, and saw so many innocent lives lost.
I welcome the hon. Lady’s comments on the alert test. The test will be publicised well in advance, including through work with domestic violence charities and others, so that everybody knows what is coming. Information for the public is available on the gov.uk/prepare website.
I agree with the hon. Lady that dialogue with the public on resilience is important. In many other countries, that is absolutely normal. Perhaps it has been a little less normal in this country, but we should change that. On risks in the immediate term, our excellent Cobra team in the Cabinet Office scans the horizon constantly for these things, and it is always prepared and ready to go in any emergency.
Amanda Hack (North West Leicestershire) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his statement. As a former Leicestershire county councillor, and as a health scrutineer before, during and after the pandemic, it was clear to me that local knowledge from our public health teams and NHS services played an important role; however, they know that they could have gone further and done so much more. Will he reassure me and my constituents that insights from local resilience forums and local experts will feed into planning and preparation for any future pandemic?
Pat McFadden
That is a good question. It is really important that we learn from the experience of the pandemic a few years ago, but we must not fall into the trap, as I said, of assuming that the next emergency will be exactly the same. We have to be flexible in our response. The next emergency, and indeed the next pandemic, may be quite different in character from the one that we went through a few years ago.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Will the preparations take into account the lasting, disastrous consequences of lockdown, and the blithering absurdity of face coverings?
Leigh Ingham (Stafford) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for the statement. I welcome the announcement that the Government will undertake a full national test of the emergency alert system in September. How will they ensure that rural areas such as Church Eaton in my constituency, which is still waiting for its phone mast to be activated, and Maer, which has had long-term difficulties with mobile reception, can receive the message? My understanding is that the alert is dependent on 4G access.
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right. About 95% of the population is covered by 4G or 5G access, and we are working constantly with the telecoms companies to improve that coverage. That is an ongoing effort.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
I welcome the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster’s commitment that resilience must be for all, not just for some. The people of Shetland will hold him to those words. A few years ago, we suffered a catastrophic power outage for about seven days in winter storms, leaving many of my constituents relying on copper wire phone lines for their connection to the outside world. If that copper wire is withdrawn without sufficient resilience being built into its replacement, the consequences for my constituents could be catastrophic. Will he, through his office, engage with private sector organisations when they are making these strategic decisions for us all?
Pat McFadden
The right hon. Gentleman represents perhaps the outermost part of the UK, and when he says that resilience should be for all, he is absolutely right. We have seen the effect of long-term—days is “long-term”—power outages, including, in recent times, during Storm Éowyn. He made a good point about ensuring resilience when systems change and new technology comes in, and we will certainly have a dialogue with telecoms companies about that.
Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for his statement. I was pleased to hear him reference the £370 million that the Government are investing to secure our telecommunications network. Will that extend to our undersea network of cables, which face perpetual threats from the Russian shadow fleet and others who are under a thin veil of plausible deniability? If those networks are disrupted, it will create chaos in the UK.
Pat McFadden
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that important question. Subsea cables are vital to the working of our economy and our defences, and those who wish us harm know that. It must be part of our national defence and our defence thinking to defend our international communication structures under the sea.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The tier 1 exercise that CDL mentioned in response to Baroness Hallett’s recommendation 6 in module 1 of her report on covid 19 is much to be welcomed. However, he will be aware that part of the problem with Exercise Cygnus in 2016 was that the results were not made public at the time, and a lot of it remained classified. In the light of what has been said today, will he ensure that the Government’s approach to this exercise is different, and that the results are made public quickly, so that they can be interrogated?
Pat McFadden
Any national exercise of this kind will show up both strengths and weaknesses. It is important that we communicate the learnings from these exercises—both the strengths and the weaknesses.
Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)
The national risk register identifies cyber-attacks on critical national infrastructure as being of moderate likelihood but potentially catastrophic in impact. The National Audit Office has identified 58 key Government systems that have substantial cyber-resilience gaps. What more can the Government do to plug those gaps and ensure that our systems are secure?
Pat McFadden
This is very important. There is no doubt that there are gaps in cyber-defences, and there is an ongoing battle to get up to speed. Many legacy systems that have been in place for decades are difficult to replace, because new has been built on old. We are investing, but it is an ongoing effort to close the gaps to stop those who would undermine the vital public services that rely on those systems.
Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)
One of the vulnerabilities that we saw in the pandemic, after the invasion of Ukraine and even during the “beast from the east” winter storm was to food supplies, but I did not hear the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster refer to food in his statement. Finland’s national food supply can sustain the country for up to nine months; it includes strategic food reserves and grain stockpiles. Germany advises citizens to keep a 10-day stockpile of food and water. Our reliance on imports makes our food supply vulnerable to global events such as pandemics and geopolitical instability. What action are the Government taking to increase our food security?
Pat McFadden
The gov.uk/prepare website refers to having a supply of food and water in case of an emergency. We recently struck an agreement with the European Union that will remove a huge amount of the cost, bureaucracy and delay in ensuring the free flow of food to and from the European Union. That is a good agreement for food security.
Claire Hughes (Bangor Aberconwy) (Lab)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. As he rightly says, planning and responding to these kinds of incidents—whether it is the pandemic, storms, flooding or major water outages, like the one that happened in my constituency earlier this year—requires people across all levels of Government to work with communities. How will the resilience plan launched today encourage closer working between the devolved Governments and the UK Government?
Pat McFadden
My experience in the year since the general election is that on matters such as this, co-operation and joint working between the UK Government and the devolved Governments is good. I am pleased to say that this is an area where party politics is usually left outside the door, and I think that is right. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: when an emergency hits, we need good co-operation and dialogue with either the devolved Governments or local authorities and local resilience forums, which I referred to in my statement.
Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster referenced the considerable spending on flood defences over the next few years. He will be aware that the port of Immingham and much of the south bank of the Humber was severely affected by a tidal surge in 2013. Although much work has been done in recent years, can he give an assurance to businesses and residents that the south bank of the Humber will remain a priority for increased flood defence expenditure?
Pat McFadden
We have set aside some £4 billion for investment in flood defences. The details of when and where that will be spent will be set out by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
Chris Bloore (Redditch) (Lab)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. One of the most striking conclusions from the covid inquiry was that vulnerable people were the hardest hit. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that support will reach vulnerable people much more quickly in the event of another incident?
Pat McFadden
That is a good and important question. As I said, resilience has to be for all, not just for some. This is taken very seriously at the National Situation Centre. As data gets better—as, for example, energy companies get a better map of their vulnerable customers—we are getting to a better place when it comes to knowing exactly where the Government should direct their effort when an emergency hits. It is a really important part of community solidarity that people of all income groups know that the Government are there for them when an emergency hits.
Adrian Ramsay (Waveney Valley) (Green)
Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confirm that climate-related emergencies are a core part of this resilience strategy? Climate breakdown has the potential to threaten our core infrastructure and poses risks to our core support systems, such as food and water, and the Climate Change Committee says that we are woefully ill-prepared for climate-related changes, so does he agree that the issue should be not a political football? Instead, it should be central to the Government’s resilience plans for protecting our citizens.
Pat McFadden
I welcome that question. If the hon. Gentleman wants a full list of what is on the risk register, it is a public document, so he can look at that. I referred several times in my statement to energy security. To get the energy security that we need, we will have to invest in a lot of new kit and equipment around the country. It is really important that we are allowed to build that without people objecting to it at every turn.
John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)
I have called for a responsibility revolution in which all businesses, organisations and individuals play their part in the national interest. I have seen that in my constituency on a visit to the National Gas station, which is a part of the critical infrastructure, and when talking to the Wolston and Brandon flood action group. Will my right hon. Friend set out what steps the Government are taking to provide better information to the public so that they can play their part in making our country more resilient?
Pat McFadden
I very much agree with my hon. Friend. This issue involves the public understanding the risks, and I think we should make this conversation normal. That is why it is right that we do the second emergency test of the system. We have used it a few times in live scenarios, in two storms that posed a real risk to life during last winter and in one or two more localised situations. The public are becoming more aware, but we will continue to make more information available so that people have a greater awareness of these situations and what they might be able to do to increase their own resilience.
Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)
It is vital that we exclude equipment from companies covered by the national intelligence law of China from being used in surveillance equipment on sensitive Government sites. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster update the House on the progress made in doing that?
Pat McFadden
As the decision maker for the National Security and Investment Act 2021, I deal with these issues every day. They involve the protection of our vital infrastructure and defences, the promotion of our economic wellbeing and ensuring that this country is a good home for inward investment.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Climate change is very real for us all, so building a resilience strategy is absolutely crucial. In a city that floods so regularly, it is drought that we are most concerned about, not least with the hosepipe ban being introduced this Friday. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster ensure that mayoral authorities introduce Living With Water plans so that we can balance flooding and drought and ensure that we have the correct supplies of water throughout the year?
Pat McFadden
It is really important that we have more investment in our water infrastructure. This country has not built a reservoir for many, many years, but the new investment plans reached with the water companies since the election will begin to change that picture and improve the deep strength of our energy and water infrastructure, which I referred to in my statement.
Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster spoke about the cyber-attacks on household names. The Business and Trade Committee heard evidence this morning from the chair of Marks & Spencer, who said that more of a two-way dialogue is needed with UK officials in which they are effectively given the offer to join and be seen as one of the team when these attacks occur. Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confirm how the action plan he has announced today will help with those kinds of requests from businesses?
Pat McFadden
I have had a number of conversations with representatives of Marks & Spencer since the attack a few months ago, and I am appearing before the Business and Trade Sub-Committee tomorrow to discuss economic security. It is really important not just that the companies learn from the attacks, but that the Government constantly learn from attacks on vital systems in much-loved and cherished British companies such as M&S.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
During the covid pandemic, I was a trade union official representing 200,000 local government workers across Scotland. I saw at first hand their extraordinary dedication to our public services, but I also saw when they were let down by a lack of co-operation and co-ordination between the UK Government and the Scottish Government. Will my right hon. Friend outline how the resilience action plan will encourage greater co-operation between Governments across our devolved nations?
Pat McFadden
When there is an emergency, there should be no place for performative politics from anyone. My experience over the past year has been that co-operation on these issues has been good. This is an arena in which we should be less partisan—perhaps that should be the case in other parts of our national life too—because in the end, the public who send us to this place want to know that help is there, no matter the colour or level of Government. That should be the spirit in which we approach emergency preparedness and resilience.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
I welcome the Minister’s statement, as well as the fact that there will be more information, not just mobile phone alerts, because those alerts do not work evenly, even in urban areas such as my constituency—there is often some delay with some phones. One of the questions that has arisen from the tragedy in Texas is whether mobile phone alerts are enough. People may not be near a phone, or they may be in a remote area, so have the Government given any thought to more old-fashioned ways—perhaps sirens, or some other way—of alerting the public when there is an emergency?
Pat McFadden
The mobile phone alert system is a significant addition to our armoury as the coverage gets better. Not everyone uses mobile phones, but a very high percentage of the population does. However, the hon. Lady is absolutely right that other media can be used, and obviously we keep these things under constant consideration.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has announced the opening of a dedicated resilience academy in North Yorkshire, which will train 4,000 private and public sector people per year. Can he give me an update on when that academy will be in place, and a surety that it will cover the entirety of the United Kingdom? He spoke earlier about the involvement of the UK Government with devolved regions, so it is critical their representatives are covered by that academy as well.
Pat McFadden
There has been a facility in North Yorkshire for some time, but I opened it as the UK Resilience Academy a few months ago. It is in place, and the plan is to train 4,000 people every year, including first responders and sometimes people from the private sector. I hope that that training benefits people from right across the UK.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
The first line of defence in national resilience is us, the citizenry. The Health Secretary and the Education Secretary wrote recently lamenting the absence of much-needed grit among many of our young people. Now that that risk has been identified at the highest level of Government, does it appear on the risk register?
Pat McFadden
We talk about the whole-society approach, because we understand that the public—us, as the hon. Gentleman says—have to be part of it. Government has its role to play, but it will not do everything; the public have a really important role to play in resilience.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Somerset is so often at the forefront of climate change. Recently, Somerset Rivers Authority set up a community flood action fund to provide small grants for small-scale works to reduce flooding in Somerset. These local, community-led interventions can make all the difference on the ground, but funds are limited, so how will the new resilience action plan future-proof local communities against climate-related risk, and how will it work to support local community interventions such as the SRA’s community flood action fund?
Pat McFadden
Those community initiatives sound excellent. As I said in my statement, the Government have set aside some £4 billion for investment in flood defences over the coming years. We have all seen how things have changed over the past 10 or 20 years, and it is critical that we put in place the protections that communities need.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister very much for his answers and his statement this afternoon. The recent cyber-attack on M&S and others has shown the devastation that can be wrought by the might of a keyboard. With trusts in Northern Ireland using Encompass and those in England using the integrated care system, what plans do the Government and the Minister have to ensure we have the capacity to be informed and to treat patients should an NHS attack or shutdown take place?
Pat McFadden
I congratulate the hon. Member on his wonderful tartan tie, which has caught my eye today—he is the best-dressed man in the House. He is absolutely right about attacks on the health system. It is frankly outrageous that people out there would seek to disable parts of the NHS as a means of extortion, and it is really important that we do everything we can to defend the NHS and stop patients from being subject to delays in their treatment because of these outrageous attacks.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for his statement this afternoon.
UK Government Resilience Action Plan
Pat McFadden Excerpts(5 days, 6 hours ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Today I have updated the House on the publication of the UK Government’s resilience action plan, this Government’s strategic approach to resilience. It is the outcome of the resilience review, which I announced to the House in July last year.
Alongside this, we have also published our chronic risks analysis, the UK biological security strategy implementation report, and an update on the implementation of the commitments made in the covid-19 inquiry module 1 Government response.
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National Security Strategy
Pat McFadden Excerpts(2 weeks, 5 days ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Today the Prime Minister attends the opening day of the NATO summit. That summit is expected to agree to a new commitment to grow spending on national security to 5% of GDP by 2035—to be made up by a projected split of 3.5% on core defence spending, and 1.5% on broader resilience and security spending. This will mark a new resolve among NATO members to make our countries stronger and, as we have always done, the United Kingdom will play our part.
NATO’s member countries meet at a time when the security situation is more in flux than at any time in a generation—a time when Ukraine is in its fourth year of resisting Russia’s invasion; a time when we in Europe are being asked to do more to secure our own defences; a time when security involves not just the traditional realms of air, sea and land, but technology, cyber and the strength of our democratic society; and, as we have seen in recent days, a time of renewed military action in the middle east, with Israel and the United States acting to try to stop Iran developing a nuclear bomb. News of a ceasefire is welcome, but as we have seen, even in recent hours, the situation remains fragile and the focus must now be on a credible plan to stop Iran developing nuclear weapons.
It is to the great pride of my party that NATO was founded in the aftermath of the second world war with the strong support of the post-war Labour Government. Ernest Bevin, the Foreign Secretary at the time, said that
“we must face the facts as they are.”—[Official Report, 22 January 1948; Vol. 446, c. 386.]
Today, in this very different age, we too must face the facts as they are.
The generation that founded NATO saw it as a powerful expression of collective security and solidarity: alliances abroad, matched by capacity at home. Our national security strategy, published today and made for these very different times, is inspired by those same values and aims. Every Member of this House understands that the first duty of any Government is to keep the country safe. That is and always will be our No. 1 priority, and our national security strategy sets out how we will do that.
The world has changed fundamentally and continues to change before our eyes. This is indeed an age of radical uncertainty, and the challenge to leadership in times of such change is to understand, to respond and to explain. The British people understand this. They recognise that we are living in a world that is more confrontational, more turbulent and more unpredictable than most of us have experienced in our lifetimes.
When the Prime Minister spoke to the House in February, he promised to produce a national security strategy that would match the scale of the task ahead. The strategy we have published today does that, with a plan that is both clear-eyed and hard-edged about the challenges that we face. It sets out a long-term vision for how we will do three crucial things. First, we will protect security at home by defending our territory, controlling our borders and making the UK a harder target for our enemies—one that is stronger and more resilient to future threats.
Secondly, we will promote strength abroad. That means bolstering our collective security, renewing and refreshing our key alliances, and developing new partnerships in strategic locations across the world. It also means taking a clear-eyed view of how we engage with major powers such as China in order to protect our national security and promote our economic interests, and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will make a further statement on the China audit shortly.
Thirdly, we will increase our sovereign and asymmetric capabilities by rebuilding our defence industries, training our people, focusing investment on our competitive strengths, and using our exceptional research and innovation base to build up advantages in new frontier technologies.
All this will make us a stronger and more resilient country, but delivering on each commitment will be possible only if all parts of society are pulling in the same direction. Our manufacturing, science and technology industries have to be aligned with national security objectives. Our industrial strategy, published yesterday, will help play to the UK’s strengths and deepen our capabilities. The investments we announced in the spending review also deepen our resilience and strength as a country, with a health service strong enough to cope, safe and secure energy supplies, modern housing and transport for our people, all of which contribute to a strong United Kingdom.
That is why it is so important that all parts of Government and businesses big and small understand that cyber-security is national security, and that our core systems and the revenues of business are being targeted by our adversaries. It is why we as legislators have to ensure that our own laws—from borders to trade—fit with national security. This will take a whole-system approach that reflects today’s reality. National security means strong supply chains, controls on immigration, tackling online harm, energy security, economic security and border security. It transcends foreign and domestic policy, and it all plays a role in how we make Britain a safer, more secure and more sovereign nation.
This document provides the blueprint of how this fits together. The strategy brings together everything we are doing across the full spectrum of national security: the commitment to spend that 5% of our domestic economic output on national security by 2035, meeting our NATO commitments once again; the over £1 billion we are investing in a new network of national biosecurity centres; how we are stepping up in areas such as cyber capability; our anti-corruption strategy to counter illicit finance; the expansion of our legal and law enforcement toolkit; the largest sustained investment in our armed forces since the cold war; our plan for defence investment to unlock real benefits for working people; how we will prioritise NATO explicitly in our defence planning; a vision for not only deepening our alliances with the United States and the European Union, but growing our relationships with other emerging nations; the money we are investing in our brilliant research and development base over the coming years, such as the £750 million for the supercomputer at the University of Edinburgh; and our ambition to gain a competitive advantage in cutting-edge technologies and to embed national security in our artificial intelligence agenda.
We do not underestimate the size of this task. The world is a more dangerous place than at any time since the end of the cold war, yet it is also a place where Britain’s values, capabilities and alliances can make a positive difference. Since we came to power, we have taken step after step to prepare Britain for what lies ahead: record investment in defence, backing our allies, and resisting the false choices put before us that would only have weakened our country. Today’s strategy represents an important contribution to all that work. It recognises that our long-term growth, prosperity and living standards all depend on national security becoming a way of life for people and businesses in the UK. This is a plan for how we protect the British people. It is a plan for today’s times, but rooted in long-held values. It is a plan to defend our national interests, deepen our international alliances and increase our sovereign capabilities, and I commend it to the House.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
I am grateful to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for advance sight of the statement and of the strategy.
Protecting our country from internal and external threats to keep the British people and our interests safe is the No. 1 priority for any Government. As a former Home Secretary, I have seen at first hand the incredible efforts of our security and intelligence services to keep us safe. So much of their work will never be disclosed, but I know that the whole House will join me in thanking them for all they do, alongside our police, counter-terrorism operations, the armed forces and all those who work so hard to keep Britain safe.
His Majesty’s Opposition will always work constructively with the Government in the national interest, especially in the current global climate when threats are increasingly complex and multifaceted. Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, non-state terrorist actors and transnational criminals all pose a significant threat to us all. That is why we welcome actions that build on the measures we put in place in government, including our National Security Act 2023, which gives us increased oversight of adversarial action and introduced the foreign influence registration scheme.
The statement and the strategy refer to the three pillars of security at home, strength abroad, and increasing sovereign and asymmetric capabilities, and I will take each in turn. On security at home, protecting critical national infrastructure must be a key component of any national security strategy. How will that work in practice? What resources will be provided? What further steps are being taken to protect people on British soil from transnational repression? With China placing bounties on the heads of people in our own country and both the NSS and the strategic defence review highlighting the threats posed by China, can the right hon. Gentleman confirm that China will be placed on the enhanced tier of FIRS? Will the Government drop their support for the China super-embassy spy hub?
On projecting our strength abroad, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned today’s NATO summit, and the commitment to increase what he calls national security spending to 5% of GDP by 2035, with 3.5% on core defence. But he does not have a plan to get to 3%, let alone the 3.5%. It is all smoke and mirrors, so when will he deliver a plan to get to 3%, and why will he not heed our calls to hit 3% by the end of this Parliament? That would be a vital stepping stone on the way to the higher defence spending he is seeking. Will the Government give clear information on exactly what spending will be included in the 1.5% target? Is there any new money, and does this, for example, include the costs of Sizewell, as we heard recently?
As well as increasing spending, we need to develop a tougher edge for a dangerous world. Given the security threats that we continue to face, will Labour’s £30 billion Chagos surrender treaty be scrapped? It undermines our national security, and contrary to the Prime Minister’s claim, our loss of sovereignty has been publicly backed by representatives of the regimes in China, Russia and Iran. The costs also hoover up money that we could spend on much-needed defence capabilities at this incredibly dangerous time.
On increasing sovereign and asymmetric capabilities, can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster explain what support will be given to private enterprise and what investment will support efforts in this area? I also note that the words in the Government’s strategy do not quite align with their broader action—for example, the decision to allow the Chinese firm Mingyang to provide wind turbines for large wind farm projects in the UK. Does he acknowledge the need to protect our energy infrastructure from such potential malign activity, and if so, what concrete steps have been taken to increase the very resilience of our own infrastructure?
Finally, on the important role of the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy and of parliamentary oversight, we understand that the National Security Adviser, Jonathan Powell, has not been made available to the Committee for questioning. The Government have claimed that it would not be appropriate for him as a special adviser to answer questions from the Committee. However, in this case, it is more than clear that Mr Powell’s role as the National Security Adviser puts him in a unique position—a unique senior position—and it appears that, as the lead adviser for the Government’s national security strategy, it is only right that the Joint Committee be able to put questions to him. Given the important issue here, and Mr Powell’s senior role and central position, will the Government finally let him give evidence to the Committee to allow it to undertake its important work?
We will always work to support the defence and security of Britain, and engage constructively with Ministers and challenge them to do everything possible to keep us safe, so I welcome the chance for these questions to be answered today.
Pat McFadden
Let me express my gratitude to the shadow Foreign Secretary for her response, the spirit in which she put her questions and her welcome for at least broad parts of the strategy we have published today. Let me turn to the questions she has asked and try to address them.
On the resources to protect people, we made our commitment to increase defence expenditure to 2.5% of GDP. Unlike the Conservative party, we said exactly how we would pay for that, even though it meant a very difficult choice on this side of the House. On the FIRS scheme, the right hon. Lady will be aware that Iran and Russia have been placed on the enhanced tier. She asked about our approach to China. This is a serious question and we must have a serious approach to it. The Conservative party, during its time in government, veered between the naivety of the so-called “golden era” to, in effect, no engagement at all. We believe that both were the wrong approach. Instead, our approach will be marked by a desire to protect our national security and to promote our economic interests; total disengagement is not a good option for the UK, so we will be guided by both. The Foreign Secretary, as I said, will make a fuller statement on China shortly.
The right hon. Lady asks what might be included in the 1.5%. It will include such things as cyber-security, border security and telecoms infrastructure. To those who ask what those things have to do with defence, let me be clear: our opponents and our enemies know that they are part of national security, and we should recognise that, too.
Finally, we have resisted the Opposition’s pleas for us to choose between our allies. In resisting that, I believe we have a strategy that makes our country stronger and enhances Britain’s capabilities. That is at the heart of the strategy we put today. Indeed, we made a conscious choice to increase investment in the country’s future capabilities at the spending review. This will give us increased strength in the future. The spending we have committed to is funded, it is set out in the spending review and that is the approach we will take in the future, too.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
I call the Chairman of the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. I totally agree that defence and security have to begin at home, in the home and in the workplace. This is a very welcome comprehensive national security strategy, given its wide-ranging assessment of all the threats we face, in defence, security, critical national infrastructure and so on. An impressive number of workstreams have fed into it—AUKUS, the SDR, the resilience review and so on—but there was no mention of the National Security Council. Can my right hon. Friend tell me what he is doing to ensure that there is a coherence across the strategy that will herald a cultural change in how this country faces security?
Pat McFadden
I thank the Chair of the Joint Committee for his question. I should have said, in response to the shadow Foreign Secretary, that I hope to reach a resolution with the Committee soon on the matter of appearances before it. I am always happy to appear before the Committee, if invited. The Chairman of the Joint Committee is quite right to say to the House that publishing strategies is one thing, but there must be follow through. The difference between this and some other documents produced is that it is a whole-system approach, looking at sovereign capability, international alliances and making our country a harder target for our enemies. All three of those must be brought together and followed through in a systematic way.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Liberal Democrats welcome the publication of the Government’s national security strategy, because we recognise that we are living in a world that is less stable and more insecure now than at any time since the end of the cold war. Putin’s forces continue to wage their war in Ukraine, the middle east is teetering on the precipice of a fully-fledged regional war, and the actions of the United States under an unreliable President Trump are putting an enormous strain on the post-war settlement from which we have benefited so much.
The nature of the threats we face continues to evolve, as has become immensely clear to millions of people across the country with the recent cyber-attacks on Marks and Spencer and the Co-op, and in other countries we have seen attempts by authoritarian states to meddle in free and fair elections. That is why we welcome so much of what is contained in the strategy. It is also why the Liberal Democrats have welcomed the Government’s decision to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP, although we have urged Ministers to go further.
Given the new NATO target of 5% of GDP, will the Government now urgently convene cross-party talks to establish a consensus on how to get there? We need to show our adversaries we are serious about that commitment. The strategy also has a welcome focus on resilience, something especially important given not just the scale of the threat we face but its varied nature. Will the Minister look at steps taken by our allies such as Estonia to inform their populations about how to deal with those threats, should they arise? To reflect the threat posed to our democracy by hostile actors, will he make protecting our democracy a national security priority? I also note the importance that the review places on sovereign independent capabilities. Is that an admission from the Government that, under President Trump, the United States is no longer a reliable ally? Will the assessment be carried over into defence procurement, where we look to maintain an inextricably close bond with the United States?
Pat McFadden
I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. Let me try to go through some of the issues she raised. She is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of the recent cyber-attacks on Marks and Spencer, the Co-op and the legal aid system. They show what both state and non-state actors can do, and they show how important it is that we strengthen our cyber-capabilities and our cyber-defences as much as possible. In terms of being serious, the actions we have taken so far since the election show that we are serious. We have a plan in place to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP this Parliament. It took a very difficult decision to do that, but at the spending review we showed exactly how that would be paid for. On her reference to the United States, it remains a strong, reliable, deep and important ally for the United Kingdom. The relationship between us helps to protect the British people every day.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
In the absence of the published China audit, which we have all been looking forward to so much, the national security strategy has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb by many of us. On China, it states:
“Instances of China’s espionage, interference in our democracy and the undermining of our economic security have increased in recent years.”
May we have some guidance on how we will address that, because that is not entirely clear? In particular, what advice is being given to the nations and regions when they are dealing with our third-biggest trading partner, with whom we need to promote but also protect ourselves?
Pat McFadden
I thank the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee for her question. If people look at page 39 of the document, they will see many references to China, and I referred to the statement that the Foreign Secretary is going to make. On our advice to people, as I said, it is guided by the protection of our security interest and the promotion of our economic interest. She refers specifically to the devolved Governments and the nations and regions. We did arrange a recent security briefing for the First Ministers at the time of the recent meeting of the Council of the Nations and Regions, because we agree it is important to bring them into our thinking and help them play their role in protecting our national security interest, too.
Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)
The right hon. Gentleman’s long experience will tell him that sometimes in government the grander the language the less significant the actual announcement. But if on this occasion—I am perfectly prepared to accept that this is so—the Government are making a serious effort to redraw the boundaries of what is national security policy and what is not, does he agree that we need matching parliamentary scrutiny of that area of policy? As he knows, the Intelligence and Security Committee is the only Committee with the necessary clearances to look at classified material. Does he think that this is a good moment to look again at the memorandum of understanding between the Committee and the Government about what the Committee covers?
Pat McFadden
The right hon. and learned Gentleman is right to say that the document is distinguished by a broader view of national security, which is also reflected in the discussion at NATO today, where we are looking beyond our core defence expenditure on our armed forces to the other things we have discussed that contribute to our national security. I thank the Intelligence and Security Committee for its work in all its iterations over the years. I have a good dialogue with the Committee. I look forward to that continuing, and to the Committee playing its very important role.
Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s focus on building up our armed forces in this more uncertain world, but is it not also vital for our national security that we focus on preventing conflict? Bringing sides together to negotiate and mediate can stop conflict spilling over and allow our armed forces to focus on the serious threats he has identified in the national security strategy. It is for that reason that former military chiefs, heads of the Security Service and Select Committee Chairs last week wrote a letter to the PM calling for investment in peacebuilding and conflict prevention. Will the Minister commit to using all the tools in our kitbag, including peacebuilding and conflict prevention, to keep our citizens safe?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is quite right to draw attention to the deep expertise that exists in the diplomatic service, which advances our national interests in a whole range of ways every day, including in conflict resolution. I pay tribute to the work of those in our diplomatic posts and diplomatic service across the world.
Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)
If you will allow me, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will read a small quote from page 10:
“We will continue to abide by the important principle—shared by NATO and its key partners—that the security of the Euro-Atlantic and Indo-Pacific regions are inextricably linked”.
But that is not how the US views it. The Trump Administration see them as quite separate, and would prefer the United Kingdom to focus its efforts on the Euro-Atlantic. How does the right hon. Gentleman explain that discrepancy?
Pat McFadden
They are inextricably linked. While the Prime Minister attends the NATO summit today, our carrier group is in the Indo-Pacific region. It is quite right that the strategy we have published today draws attention to our responsibilities, our ambition and our determination to act in both arenas.
Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)
I welcome this national security strategy. Defence begins at home, and my community plays a role in the UK’s security and resilience with the HQ of Standing Joint Command in Aldershot. We need to focus as much on national resilience as on conventional military threats, so will my right hon. Friend share the work he has been doing on the national resilience strategy? How does it fit with the national security strategy that is in front of us today?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right that resilience and target hardening must be part of our national security strategy. Resilience is about capability and investment; we are determined to do both, and will have more to say about resilience in the coming weeks.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
Before the most recent election, the Intelligence and Security Committee produced a very comprehensive report on China, making it very clear that it considers China to be one of our greatest threats. I am therefore astonished that, in the whole of today’s strategy, there are three paragraphs that deal with China, and that it raises one or two issues and then proceeds to take a different decision. It talks about there being a problem with human rights—which is genocide—and the cyber-security attacks on the UK, as well as China’s espionage, interference in our democracy, sanctioning of people like myself and undermining of our economic security, and its being guilty of transnational repression. China also ships arms to Myanmar, keeping that brutal regime in charge, at the same time as building the largest navy. To what degree do three paragraphs satisfy the idea that China should surely be in the list of threats?
Pat McFadden
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. Let me make it clear that any sanctions on UK parliamentarians are wrong, and there is no place for them. The paragraphs he refers to set out some of our position on China. As I have said, the Foreign Secretary will, however, make a broader statement on the China audit immediately after this statement. I repeat again what I said in my opening remarks: our approach to China will be guided by protecting our security interests, which we will always do robustly, but also by promoting our economic interests; we do have an economic relationship with the second biggest economy in the world.
Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)
I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for his statement, which is another firm example of this Government’s top priority of keeping residents safe. As the nature of warfare is changing, may I once again gently raise the importance of health security, and lobby for Harlow to be the new home of the UK Health Security Agency?
Pat McFadden
I believe my hon. Friend is due happy birthday wishes, so let me take that opportunity, and thank him, too, for his tireless campaigning for locating the laboratories in Harlow. The facilities are an important capability for the United Kingdom. A decision has been awaited for some years; I am not ready to announce it today, but people will not have too long to wait before it is announced.
Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)
The national security strategy document outlines an expanded meaning of national security to include areas such as food security. If food security is national security—I certainly agree it is—we need to increase domestic production instead of cutting support for farmers and increasing our reliance on imports from the other side of the world. Will the Chancellor outline how the national security strategy will be used to change policy at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs?
Pat McFadden
The Government agree that food security is important. Our farmers, food producers and food retailers have been burdened with far too many increased costs and delays in recent years, but the recent sanitary and phytosanitary agreement we reached with the European Union will lift that burden. That will be good news for food producers in the UK, who will be able to grow and sell their magnificent produce with much greater ease than in recent years.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
It is vital that the UK has robust defences against biological incidents, accidents and attacks. What steps are the Government taking to invest in our biosecurity, and how that will help to protect our country from the range of bio-threats that we face?
Pat McFadden
There is a £1 billion investment in biosecurity. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for DEFRA has been able to announce only today new investment in critical resources at Weybridge as part of that.
Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge) (Con)
I welcome today’s national security strategy, which bears a remarkable resemblance to every single one I have seen over the past 15 years. There have been only very slight adjustments over that period; I wonder whether there is any connection between the authors, or whether it is just that the officials have not changed, so the politics has not changed. However, one thing that really has changed over that period is technology, and the document I have seen this morning has very little connection to the democratisation of technology that we have seen in Ukraine’s warfare in Russia or between Israel and Iran—or, indeed, in warfare we might see waged against us by the switching off of electronic items, including solar panels and cars by the Chinese state.
Pat McFadden
I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman, and I thank him for his question. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of technology, which I mentioned in my opening remarks. It is why we have put such stress on having an AI action plan to make this country as strong as possible in this field, and why we have made the investment in the supercomputer at Edinburgh and this time put the money behind it. Such technology is a critical part of our strength as a country and we have significant advantage and expertise in it. One aspect of the document is about ensuring that, where we have an advantage, we invest in it and we make sure that it deepens our capability in those crucial ways.
Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)
I have Dreghorn and Redford barracks in my constituency, so I can only welcome the biggest uplift in defence spending since the cold war. However, many people will be concerned about the cost. I wonder whether there is an opportunity here: if our NATO allies are increasing spending along with us, is there an opportunity for our defence sector to benefit from that, generating jobs and helping to grow our economy?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right. Decisions to increase defence expenditure are not just about direct spending on the armed forces, but about the supply chain, industrial capability, defence suppliers and, critically, the skills to meet our defence needs. That is why the Prime Minister has referred to a defence dividend. This is not just security policy; it is industrial and skills policy, too.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
Cyber-security is core and central to our security at home, but a significant weakness is the security of the cabling in the North Atlantic and along the west coast of Ireland. For too long, the Irish Government have freeloaded and taken for granted the United Kingdom providing defence and security. Have the Government approached the Irish Government to see whether they will pay or play their part?
Pat McFadden
I recently had the privilege of visiting the cyber centre at Queen’s university in Belfast, which is doing fantastic research in this area. The hon. Member is right to draw attention to the importance of subsea cables. These carry critical data between us and overseas countries every day and it is certainly part of our strategy to do everything that we can to protect our subsea cable infrastructure.
Jessica Toale (Bournemouth West) (Lab)
Unlike the right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat), I welcome the focus on science and technology in the national security strategy. A new innovation quarter is being developed in Talbot village and the local council aspires to be an AI growth zone, so will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster tell me how this strategy will support growth and security in my constituency and across the south-west of England?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the importance of technology. I said in my opening remarks that the investments that we made in the spending review, which did not fall from the sky but came about because of choices made by the Government, contribute to the strength and resilience of the country. That is why the strategy talks of three pillars—homeland security, alliances abroad and deepening our sovereign capabilities—and all three are important.
Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst (Solihull West and Shirley) (Con)
Given the scale of foreign-influence operations, particularly those of China, does the Minister accept that Britain’s societal resilience remains far too limited? Without clear Government messaging, how can institutions or the public properly play their role? Will the Minister commit to expanding the defending democracy taskforce to include public education, support for free media, and curbing People’s Liberation Army-linked speakers at taxpayer funded events?
Pat McFadden
I would say that my faith in British society was strong. It is a strong society with deeply held democratic values. We never take that for granted, but it has been enduring and strong over the years. The hon. Member is right to draw attention to the importance of defending our democracy. We will always defend the right to have free elections and of our elected representatives to go about their business. We will also do our best to promote free speech and debate in our democratic process.
Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)
The Minister will know from my background that I will welcome the defence measures in the national security strategy, but I particularly wish to highlight the passages on energy security. We know that the impacts of the war in Ukraine, combined with our historical over-reliance on a single source of fuel—fossil fuels—meant that many people in my constituency and across the country faced crippling energy bills. Will the Minister outline how this security strategy will improve our energy security and make sure that we never face such a situation again?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the experience that we had several years ago—in the early stages of the Ukraine war—which showed the perils of over-reliance on overseas oil and gas. That is why investment in clean, home-grown energy is also an investment in our national security and why it contributes directly to the broader view of national security that is outlined in the strategy that we have published today.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
As the MP for Edinburgh West, I welcome the Government’s continued commitment to the defence industries in which so many of my constituents work in the city. As the Liberal Democrat Scotland spokesperson, however, I also welcome what the Minister himself describes as a “critical” investment in the supercomputer at Edinburgh university. Will there be discussions with the Scottish Government to ensure that not just the national security implications but the educational and economic growth opportunities are achieved for the whole country, so that the whole country benefits?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Lady said that she was speaking with two hats, and let me tell her that I know how that feels. She is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of dialogue with the Scottish Government. The Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee referred to the First Minister in her question. Yes, we do have a positive dialogue. Of course there are political differences, but the dialogue is probably in a better place than it has been for some time. As a former graduate of Edinburgh university, I very much welcome the investment in the supercomputer there.
Gurinder Singh Josan (Smethwick) (Lab)
I welcome this statement, particularly the attempt to renew and refresh our key alliances and develop new partnerships in strategic locations across the world. Clearly, the United States remains our most important defence and security ally, but we also have historic relationships with countries such as India, where we have recently agreed a very successful trade deal. In addition, the Royal Navy’s Carrier Strike Group arrived in Singapore yesterday on a visit. In view of those relationships, will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster outline how the Government are strengthening our defence security relationships with key allies, such as India and Singapore, in the strategically important location of the Indo-Pacific?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right that the UK Carrier Strike Group is in Singapore and he is also right to draw attention to the very important India trade deal that was reached by the Government just a few weeks ago. In recent months, we have reached trade agreements with the US, with the European Union and with India. Many people thought that that could not be done over a course of years, but it was done over a course of weeks. Each one of those agreements will help to strengthen our economy and deepen our alliances with key allies.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
I note what the Minister said about social resilience. There is little point in strategising to defend our security and power in the world if we surrender our freedoms and culture without a whimper at home. Therefore, what will the Government do, for example, to stop the misuse of sections 4 and 5 of the Public Order Act 1986, not to mention the decisions of the likes of Bristol university and the Government with their proposed Islamophobia definition, to create a de facto Islamic blasphemy law in Britain?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Gentleman should have more faith in the depth and strength of British society. This is a society that has sustained robust debate over the years, and I think that it can do so in the future. It is a critical part of our national strength and a part of what makes this country great. I pay tribute to British society for being so strong and for allowing such robust debate.
Mr Connor Rand (Altrincham and Sale West) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that our energy security is fundamental to our national security, and, therefore, does he share my concerns that Conservative Members now appear to disagree with the investment that we are making in energy security in this country? If they disagree with the investment that we are making in nuclear, small modular reactors and Great British Energy, they should stand up and say so.
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When we make the decision to invest in new nuclear power, that is a contribution to our energy security. When we make the investment in other home-grown clean energy, that is a contribution to our national security. It is essential that, in this day and age, we have a broad view of national security, which understands our vulnerabilities and the importance of protecting ourselves against them.
Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)
The right hon. Gentleman mentioned new technology, such as AI and the expansion of our legal toolkit, but very little about the legal safeguards and domestic checks and balances that are needed. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster reassure me about what checks and balances will be included to ensure that the civil liberties of UK citizens are protected at all costs?
Pat McFadden
Of course we will protect civil liberties. There is a live debate about both security and opportunity in AI, and both are part of our strategy. Let me be clear that we are on the threshold of something that has enormous possibilities, and it is an area in which the UK has significant and deep strengths. The strategy we published today states that we should deepen our capabilities in these areas to grow our sovereign capabilities and that that, in turn, will make us stronger as a country. That is what we intend to do.
Adam Thompson (Erewash) (Lab)
Rolls-Royce Submarines in Derby, just outside my constituency, is a major employer of my constituents. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confirm that the Government remain committed to the nuclear triple lock and comment on how today’s announcement will support our nuclear manufacturing industry in the east midlands?
Pat McFadden
I pay tribute to the work of Rolls-Royce and the contribution it makes to our national security. I assure my hon. Friend that our commitment to the nuclear deterrent as a cornerstone of our national security is right there as part of our national security strategy.
David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)
Labour has repeatedly stated that food security is national security—a point with which I and many of my constituents wholeheartedly agree—yet there remains a clear disconnect between that rhetoric and the substance of current policy. Beyond the announced biosecurity measures, does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster genuinely believe that the national security strategy goes far enough to address the resilience of domestic food supply chains, the risk posed by climate change to agriculture, and systemic vulnerabilities in our food system?
Pat McFadden
As I said a few moments ago, this Government have lifted the cost, delay and bureaucracy burdens on our food producers by reaching an SPS veterinary agreement with the European Union that the Conservatives would never have reached because of their ideological objection to doing so. The agreement is good for our farmers and food producers, and it is something that this Government have done.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
In this strategy, I read a number of encouraging promises. I quote two of them: “controlling our borders” and “controls on immigration”. How will applying those two promises work out at the open border with the Republic of Ireland, which allows unfettered immigrant passage into the United Kingdom? If we are going to control our borders and control immigration, when are we going to start controlling that border?
Pat McFadden
The hon. and learned Gentleman will be aware that there has been a common travel area between Ireland and the United Kingdom for many years, which the previous Government and this Government were determined to keep. That is why there is an open border between the two countries, as he says. I refer him to the immigration White Paper published just a few weeks ago, which set out reforms to the legal immigration system. Immigration makes an immense contribution to UK society, but we know that people want a proper set of rules around it, and that is what the immigration White Paper provides.
Cameron Thomas (Tewkesbury) (LD)
I echo the comments made by the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) about the Chinese Communist party. The national security strategy recognises that UK security is tied to that of our allies. Do the Government acknowledge that lasting peace in Europe means terminating Putin’s European ambitions in Ukraine, and if so, how will the Government get that through to the US Administration?
Pat McFadden
Since the start of the Russia-Ukraine war, we have stood by Ukraine. The strategy sets out the degree of support that this country has given Ukraine over the past four years. We continue to stand by Ukraine, and we continue to support its right to decide its own future. That will remain a core part of our strategy. With regard to China, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will make a statement shortly setting out the China audit in greater detail.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) asked the question I had hoped to ask, and the Minister sort of answered it, so I will ask a quite separate question. If the ambition is to reach spending at 5% of GDP on defence and broader security by 2035, what is the true current figure? We know the figure for defence but not for wider security; will it include MI5, MI6, GCHQ, counter-terrorism or, indeed, all of the police forces across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member asks what the is situation now. As the statement released overnight stated, under the current definitions of what we spend on core defence expenditure and broader security expenditure, the figure would be 4.1% by 2027, and we hope to grow from there.
Oral Answers to Questions
Pat McFadden Excerpts(1 month, 1 week ago)
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Susan Murray (Mid Dunbartonshire) (LD)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Cyber-defence is an important part of our national security, with daily attacks against Government, businesses and individuals. Members across the House will have seen the recent attacks against British household names such as Marks & Spencer and the Co-op and, indeed, the Government’s own Legal Aid Agency. Earlier this week, the Prime Minister announced that responsibility for public sector and Government cyber-security will sit with the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology. That will strengthen technological resilience by better integrating cyber-security and expertise into the Government Digital Service.
Daniel Francis
In recent weeks, we have seen a series of cyber-attacks on retailers, including on my former employer, Marks & Spencer, and on Government services such as the Legal Aid Agency. Will the Minister update the House on what discussions he has had with the UK’s National Cyber Security Centre and others to ensure that these incidents are dealt with as swiftly as possible and that more is done to prevent such attacks succeeding in the future?
Pat McFadden
Earlier this week, I met the chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre, which works with impacted organisations to investigate what has happened and who is responsible and to help them rebuild. It has been working with all the organisations that have been hit by recent cyber-attacks. I also made a speech about these issues at the CYBERUK conference in Manchester a few weeks ago.
Susan Murray
I thank the Minister for his answer. As has been mentioned, we have recently seen attacks against private institutions, with groups such as Marks & Spencer being targeted. I would be very interested to learn about the approach that has been taken by the statutory organisations and those in the military sphere, but I would like to know what efforts have been made to protect private businesses from cyber-attacks and to ensure that my constituents in Mid Dunbartonshire and people across the UK have access to their daily essentials.
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member is absolutely right. The National Cyber Security Centre offers advice, guidance and tools such as Cyber Essentials to businesses to help them prepare as best they can for attacks. Unfortunately, organised crime carries out some of these attacks, and the extortion of money is often at their root. It is really important that Government, business and individuals prepare as best we can to act against the bad actors who are trying to explore cyber-vulnerabilities and often, as I said, extort money.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
The Government’s own cyber experts Innovate UK have warned the Government that the proposed Chinese embassy at the Royal Mint threatens to compromise the telephone and internet exchange that serves the financial City of London. The experts are now telling the Government what everyone else has known all along: the super-embassy poses a super-risk. Yet the Deputy Prime Minister’s office has said that any representations on the planning application have to be made available to the applicants. Perhaps the real Deputy Prime Minister can clear this up: are the Government seriously saying that if MI5 or GCHQ have concerns about security on this site, those concerns will have to be passed to the Chinese Communist party, or has the Deputy Prime Minister got it wrong?
Pat McFadden
When it comes to both engagement with China and with an issue like this, we will engage properly while always bearing in mind our own national security considerations. The approach we do not adopt is to withdraw from engagement, which the previous Government did for a number of years—flip-flopping from that to the previous era that they called the golden era. We will engage with China when it is in our economic interest, but we will always bear our national security interests in mind.
Alex Burghart
The previous Government did not engage—sorry, they did not disengage. At the heart of this are two simple facts. First, the Government already know that this site is a security risk. It is a security risk to the City of London and, through it, our economy and the economies of all nations that trade in London. Secondly, the Government have the power to block it. Ireland and Australia have both already blocked similar embassy developments. Why are this Government too weak to act?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Gentleman was right the first time when he said that the previous Government did not engage enough. As I said, a decision on this application will be taken with full consideration of our national security considerations. Those considerations are always part of these decisions, and our engagement with China and other countries. Where I agree with him is that when it comes to national cyber-security, we must bear in mind state threats as well as non-state threats, and that is very much part of our thinking as we respond to what is going on in the cyber-sphere.
Peter Prinsley (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
We have been clear from the outset that we want to govern in a joined-up way, though as we all know the DNA in the departmental system is strong and has lasted a long time. Delivering our plan for change will require Departments to work together, whether that is to build more houses, give children the best start in life—today we announced access to free school meals for children of people on universal credit—or to protect the country against crime and security threats. It is very important that these are not goals of Departments but of the Government, and that is why we work together to achieve them.
Peter Prinsley
I am grateful for the Minister’s answer. Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket is privileged to host thousands of servicemen and servicewomen from RAF Honington, RAF Lakenheath and RAF Mildenhall. They play a crucial part in the lives of our towns and villages. Can the Minister assure me that the Ministry of Defence is working with other Departments to ensure that places such as Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket will benefit from the announcements in the strategic defence review in the form of jobs, housing, investment and apprenticeships?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend raises an important point. When the Prime Minister announced the strategic defence review a few days ago, he was clear that the uplift that has been approved by the Government in defence spending is a matter not just of the Ministry of Defence budget, but of industrial policy and skills policy. For example, we have announced an extra £1.5 billion for munitions over the next five years, creating six new munitions factories and over 1,000 jobs. It is really important that these investments are of benefit to different parts of the country as we make the necessary investments to improve our defence and national security in response to a changing world.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
I welcome the Minister’s words on wanting a more joined-up Government, but I have concerns that the Department for Transport and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government are not working well enough together both generally and specifically on cross-Solent transport to the Isle of Wight. Will he encourage better joint working between those Departments, both generally and specifically for that most important issue for my constituents where clearly Local Government and Transport need to work together to create regulation to improve passenger experience?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member makes a strong point. I spend every day encouraging Departments to work together, but he will have heard me say that departmental DNA is strong. He is right that if we want to achieve things, we must overcome departmental DNA sometimes and ensure that Departments work together to deliver good projects. That is exactly what we are trying to do.
Mike Reader (Northampton South) (Lab)
A key function of joined-up Government is joined-up procurement, and I have had the pleasure of working with the Crown Commercial Service as a supplier for over 15 years. There is an ongoing issue that the CCS runs its major procurements during holiday exercises, and this summer is no different. The construction professional services framework, which is worth billions of pounds, has been delayed and will run over the summer, meaning businesses and families have to cancel summer holidays and change their plans. What more is the Department doing to address the culture in the CCS of “buyer knows best” and not respecting supply chains?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the importance of the CCS. We have tasked the CCS with working with suppliers and reviewing how it runs frameworks to maximise the spend with small and medium-sized businesses. That should include the timing of the framework so that everyone can take part as best as possible.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
A couple of weeks ago, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster made a statement at CYBERUK about the Golden Valley development in my constituency, which was welcomed in the constituency. Since then, a decision has been made on joining up Government with the functions of public sector and on Government cyber-security moving from his Department to the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology. Is he having discussions as part of that process to ensure that his DSIT colleagues are well aware of the huge opportunities and the risks to that project at west Cheltenham?
Pat McFadden
I referred to the machinery of Government change that we announced a few days ago. We are building up a real sense of expertise in DSIT, and we thought it made sense to make that change to bring together the operational and security parts of cyber policy. I am sure that my colleagues in DSIT are well aware of the hon. Member’s views and of the importance of the issues that he raised.
Josh Dean (Hertford and Stortford) (Lab)
Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
The state has to reform to secure better value for money and outcomes for the public, and to ensure that government better reflects the country it serves. I often say that I want a civil service that speaks with all the accents of this great country. We are committed to half of UK-based senior civil servants being based outside London by the end of the decade. Last month, we confirmed plans to relocate thousands of civil service roles to 13 towns and cities across the country. The aim is to bring the civil service closer to local communities and to bring good employment prospects to different parts of the country.
Ian Lavery
I welcome that reply, and it is really progressive that the Government are now relocating jobs away from London, but can I urge the Minister to look closely at how people in places like my constituency of Blyth and Ashington—people everywhere, in rural and semi-rural constituencies as well as in more urban ones—can benefit from this fantastic policy? We all need to be able to benefit from this policy, not just certain peoples in city constituencies.
Pat McFadden
I very much hear what my hon. Friend says. I cannot stand here and say that there will be a civil service location in every single constituency in the country, but we are happy to have dialogue with MPs and local authorities from all parts of the country to get the biggest benefits possible from these decisions to locate civil service jobs around the country. The truth is, in this day and age, not everyone has to work in central London. We can get better value for money and, as I said, a public service that is closer to the public it serves.
Chris McDonald
I particularly welcome the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster saying that he would like to hear more accents from different parts of the country in the civil service. Billingham in Stockton North is home to the UK’s biggest biomanufacturing cluster, and we are also somewhat exposed to international trade with our steel, chemical and automotive sectors. I very much welcome the expansion of the Darlington economic campus in the area of business and trade. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this will provide good jobs for my constituents in Stockton and Billingham, and will he ensure that policy implementation is closer to the source of economic activity?
Pat McFadden
We have the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), with us today. He pushed for the Darlington economic campus, which is a good innovation, and I know the current Chancellor of the Exchequer values it greatly. We want not just to relocate jobs, though that is important, but to have thematic campuses that can build up real areas of expertise, whether in digital skills, financial skills, energy skills and so on, to make a real difference to the communities in which these offices are located.
Rishi Sunak (Richmond and Northallerton) (Con)
I thank the CDL for what he said, because the Darlington economic campus has been a huge success. It recently passed the milestone of 1,000 jobs, but crucially, 80% of those people were recruited locally, providing opportunities for constituents in my rural area and across the north-east, as we have heard.
The Darlington economic campus is also pioneering a very strong cross-Government approach to working, which is helping to combat the strong departmental DNA that the CDL mentioned. Will he join me in praising the leadership team at DEC for establishing themselves as an indispensable part of Government policymaking, and will he join me in ensuring that Darlington can serve as a model template for other campuses across the UK?
Pat McFadden
I join the right hon. Gentleman in praising the leadership team at DEC. He touches on a very important point, because we do not want just to relocate jobs; we want people to have a good career path, too. In some of the civil service offices I have visited around the country since last year, people have raised the question, “Can I pursue a career here that gets me promoted?” It cannot just be about relocation; it has to be about the chance to build a career in these places.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
My party was pleased to hear the announcement that GB Energy is coming to Aberdeen, which we have consistently said is the only sensible place for it, as Members would expect an Aberdeen MP to say. Given that GB Energy will bring a maximum of 1,000 jobs over the next 10 years, will the right hon. Gentleman please encourage his ministerial colleagues not to suggest that those jobs will replace the 400 jobs a fortnight that we are set to lose in the offshore energy industry over the next five years?
Pat McFadden
Investment in renewables is an energy policy, but it is also an economic and employment policy. I can assure the hon. Member that investment from both the public sector and the private sector will see many good new jobs created in new sources of energy over the coming years and decades.
Sonia Kumar (Dudley) (Lab)
I welcome the relocation of civil service jobs across the country. With a recent study showing that Dudley has high levels of economic inactivity, what reassurances can my right hon. Friend give me that young people in Dudley will have every opportunity to build their career in the civil service, whether through training, apprenticeships or mentorships?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear my strong enthusiasm for greater employment opportunities for young people in the Black Country. When we made the announcement about the relocation last week, we also announced a new apprenticeship scheme, because we not only have to change location; we also have to change recruitment patterns if we are really to get a civil service that speaks with all the accents of the country.
Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)
When the Minister is moving civil service jobs outside London, may I remind him that there is much more to the north than just Manchester and Leeds? Why are the Government moving the Information Commissioner’s Office away from Wilmslow to Manchester, and what assessment has been done of the impact of that move on the economy of Wilmslow?
Pat McFadden
Mr Speaker, as you can see, this issue will prompt a lot of Members to stand up for their areas, and they are quite right to do so. As we do this, we will try to bring things together in a way that creates real expertise, and it is not just about cities; it is about other urban and semi-urban areas, too. The technology that allows us to move jobs outside London also allows us to do that.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
The Intelligence and Security Committee does important and valuable work. The Cabinet Office engages constructively with the Committee and will continue to do so over the coming months. We have agreed to the Committee’s requested uplift on budgeting and resourcing, which should help it do its job properly over the course of the next Parliament. We are also working with the ISC to identify the best operating model.
Sir Edward Leigh
Has the Minister had a discussion with the Intelligence and Security Committee as to why our normally sophisticated operations have not succeeded in making any significant dent in smashing the gangs and stopping the boats? Perhaps he might ask the Committee whether its view is that such is the pull factor and the desperation of these people that the only way we will stop the boats is to do what my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak) was going to do: arrest them, deport them and send them back to where they came from.
Pat McFadden
I am not quite sure that was the previous Government’s plan—maybe the right hon. Gentleman wishes it was. This is a hugely important issue for us. It is a security issue as well as an immigration issue. Of course, international policing and security operations to stop these gangs and this trade is a vital part of trying to combat it.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament is unique, made up of Privy Counsellors from both Houses. However, last month the Committee took the highly unusual step of publicly criticising the Government for their failure to allow the Committee the staff and independence to fulfil its role overseeing the circa £3 billion annual spend, for which
“there is no oversight capability.”
The Committee is led by an experienced Labour peer, and it just wants the basics: to have staff who are not totally beholden to the Cabinet Office, so that they can do their job on behalf of Parliament and the country, and to meet the Prime Minister. The work of our intelligence services has never been more important, given the grey zone that states are acting within at the moment, which must be properly overseen.
I asked a written question about when the Prime Minister would deign to meet the Committee. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Ms Oppong-Asare), said that one was being arranged. Has that now happened? I also asked written questions about the independence and resources of the Committee and was told that discussions were ongoing. On a matter of this seriousness, does Parliament not deserve more than fob-off half-answers, and will the Minister provide further details now?
Pat McFadden
I do not think the shadow Minister listened to my first answer. For the avoidance of doubt, I said that we have agreed to the Committee’s requested uplift on budgeting and resourcing. Of course, the Prime Minister will be happy to meet the Committee at a convenient time that both can agree.
Marie Goldman (Chelmsford) (LD)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
We want to see a civil service that delivers for the public. The reforms that we are pushing through include greater adoption of technology; relocating civil service jobs around the country, as we have discussed; and, critically, a focus on outcomes in key public service areas, not just the processes that lead to them.
Marie Goldman
Many of my Chelmsford constituents are civil servants who travel into London most days of the week to perform their jobs. Last month, a Centre for Economics and Business Research report revealed that the UK may need 92,000 more public workers by 2030 to maintain the same level of output, due to falls in productivity in the sector. However, the Cabinet Office has refused to comment on reports in recent days that the Government plan to cut the number of civil servants by 10% by the end of the decade, which will have an impact on my Chelmsford constituents. Will the Minister confirm today whether a 10% cut to civil service headcount is planned and if any of that will take the form of compulsory redundancy?
Pat McFadden
It is fair to ask for productivity improvements from civil servants on behalf of the taxpayer. We have had an increase in hiring over the past 10 years. We do not have a target for a headcount reduction—that was tried under the last Government and did not work—but we do have a target for reduction in admin and overhead spend. We want to work with civil servants on how that will be done. I say to the hon. Lady that when the taxpayer is committing funds to public services, we want to ensure we get maximum productivity in the public sector; we cannot just resign ourselves to lower productivity and the answer always being to hire more people.
Chris Webb (Blackpool South) (Lab)
How is the Cabinet Office working with the Department of Health and Social Care to bring down waiting lists, not just in Blackpool but across the UK?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend will know that waiting lists have fallen by around 200,000 since the election. We set an aim of 2 million extra appointments in the first year; we have not had 2 million extra appointments but 3 million, and the first year is not yet over. We are working closely with the Department of Health and Social Care on that. We know it is just the start: it is a good start, but we have a long way to go to get the health service back to the levels that we want to see.
Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)
David Chadwick (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe) (LD)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Since our last oral questions session, the Government have secured a historic agreement with the European Union that removes a huge amount of cost and bureaucracy from our food and drinks industry, that backs British jobs and that will help British consumers. I thank the Paymaster General for all his excellent work on securing that agreement. We have also set out details of how we will reform the state, moving thousands of civil service jobs around the country and launching a new apprenticeship scheme so that young people, wherever they live, have a better chance of good work in the public service.
David Chadwick
This week, I uncovered the Government’s shocking decision to designate the Oxford to Cambridge railway line as an England and Wales project. It is clearly nothing of the sort, and the decision will cost Wales £360 million-worth of funding for our own network. Will the Minister commit to devolving full rail infrastructure powers to Wales in this Parliament?
Pat McFadden
I urge the hon. Member to have a little patience until the spending review in a few days’ time. We got a taste of it yesterday, with the Chancellor announcing funding for major transport projects around the country. We are investing in public services not just in England, but right across the United Kingdom. The hon. Member will hear a lot more about that in a few days’ time.
Markus Campbell-Savours (Penrith and Solway) (Lab)
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has already told the House about plans for a reduction in civil service numbers. Since he came into office, how many civil service roles in the Cabinet Office and its agencies have been eliminated?
Pat McFadden
We hope to see a reduction of around 2,000 in Cabinet Office numbers over the next few years. We have instituted a voluntary exit scheme, which will make the management of headcount easier and will come into force very soon.
Alex Burghart
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster very skilfully talked about the future, rather than the past year. I will let him know that during the past year, the number of roles in his Department and its agencies has increased by 828. That cannot give the House a great deal of confidence that his future cuts will be effective. Will he guarantee that that is a one-off and that he will go back and ensure that the Cabinet Office is actually reduced in size?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Gentleman was part of a Government who regularly produced headcount targets for civil servants that were about as reliable as the immigration targets that the Conservatives also produced. I have made it clear that we do not seek a particular headcount target; it depends on what people do. We are trying to reduce the overhead spend, but we are prepared to hire more people when it comes to frontline public service delivery. That is why we are hiring more teachers and getting the waiting lists down. We are not adopting the hon. Gentleman’s approach; therefore, I will not fall into the trap that he is trying to set.
Dr Jeevun Sandher (Loughborough) (Lab)
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
Fellow right hon. and hon. Members will have noticed that some political parties have begun accepting cryptocurrency donations—far be it from me to suggest that this might be an attempt to dodge the transparency requirements for donations. Does the Minister join me in welcoming the Electoral Commission’s clear guidance that donations that do not come from a permissible or identifiable source must be returned, and will he be speaking with ministerial colleagues in other Departments about making sure that the forthcoming elections Bill ensures that any political donation involving crypto is fully transparent and in line with our laws?
Pat McFadden
It is absolutely right that as finance evolves, so too must the rules we have to ensure transparency and probity in elections. Therefore, the rules regarding the source of funding and the bona fide character of the donors must apply whatever currency is involved.
Lorraine Beavers (Blackpool North and Fleetwood) (Lab)
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Pat McFadden
The hon. Lady raises a good point. At the meeting of the Council of the Nations and Regions that took place a couple of weeks ago, issues of technology were very high on the agenda. We take these forums for dialogue very seriously, and I think I am right in saying that we can have a discussion on this issue without some of the heat that characterises other subjects that come up.
Jim Dickson (Dartford) (Lab)
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will know that the UK has some of the best intelligence agencies in the world, and they have huge powers and huge budgets which they use to keep our country safe every single day of the week. He also knows that in any large organisation mistakes are made and public confidence in those agencies is vital. Given that the Intelligence Services Act 1994 is more than 30 years old—there have been some other Acts—is it not time for the Intelligence and Security Committee to have new powers of oversight and even new powers of sanction, so that the public can have confidence that our intelligence agencies have proper scrutiny and oversight?
Pat McFadden
Let me echo the right hon. Member’s words in paying tribute to the work that our intelligence and security agencies do in keeping us all safe every day. We discussed the Committee earlier in these questions. The Government have approved an uplift in resources for the Committee, and we are working closely with it on the best operating model for doing its job as effectively as possible.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
Mr Speaker,
“The only good Tory is a dead Tory. Kill your local MP”—
so said the controversial Ulster rap band who remain on the bill at Glastonbury. Given that is the case, can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster reassure the House that no Cabinet Office Ministers will be attending Glastonbury this year?
Pat McFadden
I will not be going to Glastonbury, but I am very much looking forward to seeing Bruce Springsteen at Anfield stadium on Saturday night.
Places for Growth 2030
Pat McFadden Excerpts(1 month, 4 weeks ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Today the Government have announced further steps that they are taking to transform the civil service through:
Building on the places for growth programme by bringing more decision making out of Whitehall and closer to communities, ensuring that 50% of UK-based senior civil servants are located outside London in the English regions, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland by 2030.
Strengthening the Government presence across the country, with 13 cross-Government regional hubs. These hubs will have end-to-end careers across the civil service, allowing promotion without having to relocate, and foster collaboration across organisations and all spheres of Government, with talent feeding in from regional “spokes.”
Bringing central and local government together in place to work differently, launching “test and learn” pilots to trial multidisciplinary teams across Government, strengthening local partnerships, bringing policy closer to delivery, driving public sector reform and prioritising preventive interventions.
Becoming more productive and agile by reducing the London workforce, delivering admin savings by closing 11 buildings in this SR, including two core buildings, including the specific building closures of 102 Petty France and 39 Victoria Street.
Strengthening the talent pipeline: Building a long-term pipeline of talent across the country, including by:
Launching a new apprenticeship programme—OS career launch apprenticeship, which will support entry into the civil service in Birmingham and Manchester (as well as London).
Setting an ambition to have 50% of fast stream roles based outside London by 2030. This would strengthen regional talent and support the ambition to bring the civil service closer to the communities it serves.
Committing to develop and launch a local government interchange programme, in partnership with the Local Government Association. Working with the LGA to develop secondment programmes focused on working with local government.
As part of the Prime Minister’s plan for change, it is essential that the civil service evolves to become more agile, closer to the communities it serves, and more efficient to deliver savings for our taxpayers. At the heart of this agenda is the places for growth programme, which will support the delivery of civil service transformation.
By 2030, our vision is for the UK Government to be embedded in every region, supporting local economic growth and collaborating on Government-led missions. High-quality Government roles will move from London to bolster a stronger and more senior presence, delivering for all citizens across the English regions, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Aligned with the wider reform agenda, the civil service will reshape as it resizes to be more effective and efficient, enabling diverse, cross-Government career paths across the country while being closer to the communities it serves.
Building on the success of the Darlington economic campus, the Sheffield policy campus and the Leeds health and social care hub, we want to explore opportunities for more campuses to create strategic partnerships between central and local government as well as industry partners, taking multidisciplinary approaches to complex issues and making the most of each region’s strengths across the country. Two of the new campuses will be a new Government digital and an AI innovation campus and energy campus, to be launched in Manchester and Aberdeen.
[HCW633]
Oral Answers to Questions
Pat McFadden Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Matthew Patrick (Wirral West) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
This Government believe in the power of good public services to provide security and opportunity, but we are clear that the way in which the state works has to change. That is why we are reforming the planning system to get more houses built, why we have introduced free breakfast clubs to give children the best start to their day, why we have launched the AI action plan to drive the adoption of new tech in public services, and why a combination of investment and reform has helped us to cut NHS waiting lists for months in a row.
Sarah Coombes
Labour was elected to get the NHS back on its feet, and that is exactly what we have been doing. At Sandwell and West Birmingham hospitals NHS trust in my area, the waiting list has fallen by 10% since the election, which means that patients are finally getting the treatment they need. One of the key things we have been doing is to look at things such as ambient AI to automate doctors’ notes and ensure that we have modern technology in the NHS. Will the Minister set out what we are doing to ensure that the NHS adopts all technology and reform to ensure that patients are being seen as quickly as possible?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is huge potential to increase NHS productivity through the adoption of new technology and AI. As I have said, the combination of investment and reform has helped us meet our election pledge to deliver 2 million extra NHS appointments in England in the first year seven months early, but we want to go further. We want to adopt the technology to which my hon. Friend has referred to get maximum productivity and better outcomes for patients.
Jess Asato
I thank the Minister for his response. I have been contacted by a constituent who is concerned for his poorly elderly father, who requires cryotherapy. That service used to be offered at his local GP, avoiding a difficult trip to our local hospital, which would have a deleterious impact on his father’s already poor health. Given the Government’s focus on moving more health services into the community and people’s homes as part of our public service reform agenda, does my right hon. Friend agree that cryotherapy services should be considered as part of that welcome shift?
Pat McFadden
The Health Secretary has talked about three big shifts that are part of the 10-year NHS plan. One of those shifts is from hospital to the community, which will require more services to be available locally. We have agreed a new GP contract, which will see a large boost to general practitioner funding, alongside reforms to improve digital access. If we are going to make this shift, it is important that services are available in the local community.
Luke Myer
The Government’s laudable mission-led approach has seen NHS waiting lists fall for five months in a row. Like many public services, our NHS has been plagued by over-specified guidance and unnecessary targets for many years, so will the Minister assure the House that the mission-led approach will mean a focus on core non-negotiables to deliver for the British people?
Pat McFadden
The missions set out the Government’s long-term targets, and the plan for change sets out the key targets for the next few years. I do believe that targets can play a key role in driving behaviour, and that the focus on getting waiting lists and waiting times down set out in our plan for change can make a real difference over the coming few years.
Oliver Ryan
I thank the Minister for that answer. I know from my time as a councillor outside this place that under the last Government, policy was made in Westminster, with very little thought given to how it could hit frontline services more locally. However, examples such as test and trace during the pandemic show that local services can deliver national priorities effectively, so what can the Minister do to ensure that civil servants down here work better with frontline workers up there to make sure that this Government’s priorities are being delivered?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member makes a very good point. It is really important that we change the way in which policy is made—that we listen more to the frontline and work with the test-and-learn approach that was referred to by the Minister for the Cabinet Office in answer to the previous question. That can help drive better outcomes for the public.
Matthew Patrick
It is clear to me that under the last Government, our state failed the public. We had an agenda that was not rooted in the lives of everyday people, meaning that despite the number of civil servants being the highest in a generation, outcomes for my constituents in Wirral West and people across the country were worse. Will the Minister please set out how a smaller, more modern and more focused state can once again deliver world-class public services?
Pat McFadden
Over recent years, the public have seen the state get bigger and taxes go up, but they have not always felt that they are getting the right outcome from those changes. To deliver our plan for change, we need to reform the state to make it more efficient and more effective. We have started to deliver those reforms through stronger performance management, accelerating AI adoption, a focus on the frontline, and reforming rules around recruitment and secondments. Those plans will help empower our excellent civil services to work better, reduce bureaucracy and focus on what really matters, which is better outcomes for the public.
Rishi Sunak (Richmond and Northallerton) (Con)
I commend the ministerial team, both on the innovation fund and—more importantly—the test-and-learn culture that has been referred to, which embraces a willingness to take risks and iterate. Does the Minister agree that in order for this work to be truly successful and transform our public services, we must also reform our governance and approval processes in parallel, so that they do not inadvertently stifle this welcome method of innovation?
Pat McFadden
The right hon. Member obviously has hugely important experience in this regard. He will know from that experience that the traditional system can be risk-averse, and that it can seek to resolve too much and try to cover every base before launching a policy. The test-and-learn approach is different by intention. It intends to start small and to build from there. What is absolutely certain is that whether it is his party or my party in power, there is a duty on any Government today to pursue reform of the state to improve outcomes for the public, so in that regard I agree with him.
Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)
A number of months ago, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster announced the plan for change and the pillars, missions and various other things that come with it. When will he update the House on how that is going and how the Government are meeting those targets?
Pat McFadden
Well, I have good news for the right hon. Gentleman. [Laughter.] This is parliamentary accountability in action. One of the key targets in the plan for change was to get waiting lists and waiting times down. I am pleased to report to him that they have fallen for five months in a row and that we have met our first step on 2 million extra appointments early, and I look forward to more progress in the future.
Mr Will Forster (Woking) (LD)
With 2,100 jobs set to go at the Cabinet Office by 2028, please can the Minister confirm what impact those cuts will have on his Department? What responsibilities might be transferred out of it?
Pat McFadden
The Cabinet Office has tripled in size in the past decade or so. I think it is right, after growth like that, that we look at productivity and how to get the best outcomes for the public. We have introduced a mutually agreed exit scheme. Some of the headcount reduction will be by transferring functions to other places, but I believe that the Cabinet Office can absorb a headcount reduction after, as I said, tripling in size over the past decade or so.
Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)
Can the Minister outline Government plans to reform the funding of fire authorities? That is especially important in Somerset, where changes to employer national insurance contributions, the ending of the rural support grant, the removal of the services grant and the reduction of the pension grant will cost Devon and Somerset Fire Authority nearly £2 million a year, at a time of rising costs.
Pat McFadden
I do not want to interrupt the collegiate mood we have had this morning by pointing out that we had to take those decisions after the inheritance we received. I cannot speak for every local authority settlement around the country, but the local authority settlements announced after the Budget were on the whole better than they have been for many years. They will not make up for the past 14 years, but they are better settlements than many local authorities have seen for some time.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister very much for his answers to those questions. The reform of public services is important, and I welcome the ideas he has put forward. I know he has a deep interest in Northern Ireland. Is it possible on his journeys to Northern Ireland—I understand that he goes regularly —for him to discuss the reform of public services with the Northern Ireland Assembly and the relevant Minister to ensure that we can have the same benefits that come from what he is putting forward today, thereby improving services and saving money at the same time?
Pat McFadden
It is important that we have good dialogue between all the devolved Governments and the UK Government. I believe that we do have that good dialogue in place at the moment. There are always different political parties represented around the table, and people will come at things from a particular angle, but when it comes to this kind of agenda, the questions are: how do we get the best value for money for people, how do we get waiting lists down, and how do we make sure that the taxes that people pay get the best possible public sector productivity? There is a common agenda there, and I see no reason why we cannot keep working productively together on that.
Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)
Peter Lamb (Crawley) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Let me thank the thousands of diligent and hard-working civil servants who are dedicated to making people’s lives better. We want to get the best for civil servants and out of civil servants, so we are reforming the structure and the focus so that it is better placed to fulfil that purpose. That includes a number of important steps in recent weeks: robust performance management; better use of digital tools; faster recruitment; cuts to some wasteful spending; and a review of the arms-length body landscape, including the changes announced on NHS England, to return both power and responsibility to elected representatives.
Peter Lamb
I thank the Minister for his response and I am perfectly happy to accept the diligence of the civil service. Regardless, every two years a third of the civil service change their Department and countless more change to unrelated policy roles within each Department. Under the previous Government, policy expertise was completely hollowed out from the civil service. Will the Minister set out how we intend to resolve that to bring policy expertise back into the civil service and ensure we have Government teams capable of delivering for Britain?
Pat McFadden
It is probably true to say that a long-held frustration of some Ministers has been turnaround and the pattern of career progression, where people move on after a few years just as they are becoming an absolute expert in their area. Our ambition is not just to have policy expertise, but to change the way that policy is put together in the first place. That is why the test-and-learn approach, which we discussed earlier in this session, is so important. Frankly, the old way of having a group of experts writing a White Paper, throwing it over a wall and hoping it will work first time, just does not work in today’s age. What we really have to avoid is a two-speed world, with massive innovation in the private sphere and a public sphere working in the same old ways. We have to avoid that in the interests of the public.
James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)
The right hon. Gentleman talks a good game about scrapping quangos and I support the review he announced to reduce the size of the bureaucratic state. Why then, despite the rhetoric, are the Government at the same time creating dozens of new quangos?
Pat McFadden
This is another debate, which has gone on for many years and relates to the question of headcount—Governments can magically reduce headcount by creating a quango somewhere, but the headcount may not have changed at all. What is informing the drive this time is the fiction that an arm’s length body can somehow absolve Ministers of responsibility. It does not work like that in the real world. Sometimes there is a good case for having an arm’s length body, but in the end, we know that accountability will be with Ministers, and that is what is informing how we look at these things at the moment.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
I have listened with a great deal of interest to what the right hon. Gentleman has had to say on the Government’s plans to make Whitehall more efficient and to make significant reforms to service delivery, and we on these Benches very much welcome the intention behind that statement. However, announcements have been made in the media about the intention to cut 2,100 jobs in the Cabinet Office and reduce the Department’s workforce by a third. Why have we not had a statement in this House about those job cuts specifically, and when will Members of Parliament get an opportunity to scrutinise exactly what that means for their constituents and their expectations about service delivery?
Pat McFadden
I work very closely with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Treasury on this matter. The truth is, civil service headcount grew by more than 100,000 in the years the Opposition was in power. We believe that some of that can be explained by the repatriation of powers after Brexit, but some of it can be looked at in terms of efficiencies, which is what we are doing. By reducing the Government’s overhead, we can devote the resources to where they are really needed: in frontline public services. After such growth presided over by the Conservatives over the past decade, we believe that can be done.
Kenneth Stevenson (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
Gurinder Singh Josan (Smethwick) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Since the last oral questions, we have been working to create a more focused Cabinet Office that will drive the work of reform and help to deliver on our plan for change. We have taken decisive action, including by cutting wasteful spending so that resources can be targeted on the frontline. I am pleased to inform the House that I will shortly be opening the UK Resilience Academy, which will be an important resource in training public servants for a range of potential emergencies.
Gurinder Singh Josan
I am sure the Minister will agree that the diversity of those in positions of responsibility across all areas of UK Government and public institutions is key to maintaining confidence among the British public that the Government are working for all of us. Diversity is important across all the various equality strands as well as the various geographical areas of the UK’s nations and regions. Will he detail what work has been done to review the diversity of public appointments in the UK and to maintain and improve that diversity, particularly in view of the changes proposed to public bodies?
Pat McFadden
Merit will always be the primary consideration in any appointment, but diversity is important, and we are not giving up on it. We want to see a public service that looks like the country and speaks with all the accents that make this country a great place. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Queen’s Park and Maida Vale (Georgia Gould) recently spoke at the civil service social mobility conference to bring home that message, which will reflect what we do on public appointments.
Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
Pat McFadden
AI is a huge opportunity for the UK. The AI opportunities action plan was a statement of our ambition to make the UK a world leader in AI. We launched an expression of interest on AI growth zones and have received more than 200 responses. The first such zone has already been announced at Culham, home to the UK Atomic Energy Authority.
Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)
We have recently found out that portraits and paintings of Elizabeth I, Sir Walter Raleigh and William Shakespeare are among 69 pieces of artwork that have been removed from No. 10, No. 11 and across the Government estate. Does this not make a mockery of the Government’s St George’s day celebrations this week? They are more interested in chasing the latest woke trends than celebrating the history and heritage of this great country.
Pat McFadden
I have already said that we want a public service that reflects all the great accents that make this country such a great place. We celebrate our history, and I warmly wish the hon. Member—a day late, I admit—a very happy St George’s day.
Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)
During the last Parliament, I made a submission, on behalf of the National Association of Retired Police Officers, for a medal to be issued in recognition of the service given by those injured on duty and invalided out of the service. That had the backing of the then Policing Minister, and I understand it also has the backing of the current Policing Minister, but it has now disappeared into a black hole in the Cabinet Office. Will the Minister please dig it out, dust it off and give it a fair wind?
Pat McFadden
I will find out exactly where we are with this matter and then write to the right hon. Member.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
Under the Windsor framework, the Government, through the Cabinet Office, regularly supply data to the European Union about the number and type of checks conducted at the Irish sea border, but they refuse to provide that data to Members of this House. When I was a Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and the oversight of those checks lay with the local Department, I was able to acquire that, but now that it is under the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Members who ask those questions get a refusal of an answer. Why is that?
Oral Answers to Questions
Pat McFadden Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
The Government are working hard to improve the cyber resilience of the public sector, because cyber-attacks can be against central Government institutions, local authorities and, of course, individuals and businesses. With regard to local authorities, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government has launched a cyber assessment framework for local government. It sets a clear cyber-security standard for the sector, and the Department also provides monthly cyber clinics to support local authorities in improving collaboration, sharing intelligence and tackling vulnerabilities in this area.
Ian Lavery
Local councils manage mountains of sensitive data, deliver essential services and lead on emergency responses to critical incidents, among much more, yet 15 years of Tory underfunding has left outdated digital infrastructure, leaving them particularly vulnerable to cyber-attack. Does the Minister agree that improving cyber resilience in local authorities is of paramount importance if we are to protect our citizens� data and continue to deliver essential services without interruption from hostile actors?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: not all the systems used across central or local government are as up to date as they should be. This is a constant battle and a constant challenge. It is really important that we put every effort into ensuring that we are as well protected as possible against hostile acts from both state and non-state actors.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The US Defence Secretary, Pete Hegseth, has this week announced the stepping back of US counter-cyber measures against Russia. This incredibly concerning decision by the Americans threatens not only their cyber-security, but our own. The Russian Government have been accused of orchestrating a widespread campaign of interference and disinformation that seeks to undermine the global order. In 2020, the UK Parliament�s Intelligence and Security Committee stated that the Government had underestimated the response required to the Russian threat. Can the Minister tell us what further measures the Government are taking to protect British democracy, and will he commit to publishing the full, unredacted Russia report?
Pat McFadden
We are fully alive to the threat posed by Russian cyber-attacks. I mentioned in my previous answer the threat from state and non-state actors, and there is sometimes a threat from state-backed actors against our public infrastructure. We will work as hard as possible to protect our institutions against such attacks, and our intelligence co-operation with the United States remains a very important part of our defences.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
The Government are taking action to strengthen our cyber-security and protect our digital economy. The Home Office has launched a public consultation on proposals to tackle ransomware�one of the most malicious types of attack�to protect UK businesses, improve reporting and strike a blow against those who use this model of organised crime. However, this is a major challenge, as I have said, and it is an ongoing battle against those who seek to us do harm, to extort money and to undermine the delivery of crucial public services.
Johanna Baxter
I share some of the concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney). Last week I spoke to businesses and officials working on Ukraine�s critical national infrastructure, who are on the frontline of Russian cyber-attacks. They told me that, since the invasion, there have been cyber-attacks on virtually every aspect of Ukrainian life, and highlighted the scope of the damage they have done to civilian and military operations. Can my right hon. Friend say a little more about how we are learning the lessons from this conflict and what we are doing to protect our own national infrastructure from Russian cyber-attacks?
Pat McFadden
The Government are helping Ukraine�s cyber-defenders to detect, disrupt and deter Russian cyber-attacks. The programme is back by �16 million of UK funding, using world-leading expertise from both the private and the public sectors to protect Ukraine�s critical national infrastructure. We understand that the protection of cyber-assets is part of modern warfare, and we are providing this help for Ukraine, just as we have supplied it with a large number of weapons over the past three years.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
ByteDance, the company that owns TikTok, is required as a Chinese company to have an in-house Chinese Communist party committee. We all know that attacks from China on our national infrastructure as well as on our cyber-networks are becoming increasingly common, and it is clear that elements of the Chinese Government are behind them. Yet, astonishingly, the Government are still failing to fully declare ministerial meetings with TikTok representatives. Will the Minister ensure that meetings with TikTok executives are declared by Government Ministers alongside other senior media executive registrations, given TikTok�s huge presence in the media space, the massive public influence it has and the known cyber-risks posed by this Chinese platform?
Pat McFadden
There is a well-established process for transparency about meetings between Government Ministers and outside organisations, and TikTok will be treated in the same way as anyone else.
Dave Robertson (Lichfield) (Lab)
Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
I am pleased to report to the House that we are making progress in delivering our plan for change. After years of rising NHS waiting lists under the Conservatives, those waiting lists are now falling and last month we announced that we had met our first step pledge to deliver 2 million additional NHS appointments seven months early. In addition to that, the first 750 breakfast clubs will open in April to help children get the best start to their learning day, and our new criminal justice legislation is being introduced to protect the public from crime and antisocial behaviour, including the introduction of respect orders targeted at known troublemakers in our local communities.
Mark Sewards
I thank the Minister for that answer. I was proud to vote for the �22.6 billion increase in NHS spending, which means that we are getting 2 million more appointments seven months early and that waiting lists are coming down. Of course, there is still a long way to go and the British public deserve to know that every penny of that extra investment is being spent as efficiently as possible. Will the Minister update the House on what the Government�s plans are to reform the NHS to ensure that every single penny is spent wisely?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right; the additional resources for the NHS were only made possible by the Budget proposed by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor back in October. My hon. Friend is also right to say that as more money goes into the NHS, there is a duty to ensure that that is matched by reform. The 10-year health plan will set out how we will deliver an NHS by creating a reformed and modern health service to ensure that the extra investment results in faster and more convenient treatment for patients, because that is what we all want to see.
Perran Moon
Over the last 14 years, my Camborne, Redruth and Hayle constituency has seen child poverty rise. A third of secondary school children are now persistently absent from school, educational attainment is below the national average and life expectancy has actually fallen. Those were 14 years of abject failure, for which my constituents will never forgive the Conservative party. Does the Minister agree that the true test of success of our plan for change and a decade of renewal should be measured in the positive changes to the lives of our poorest communities?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend puts it well. The missions that we have set out are focused on delivering long-term and ambitious outcomes that will make a meaningful difference to people�s lives. Specifically on the issue he raised on child poverty and the best start in life, the plan for change has a specific target to close the development gap between children who are starting school, and to ensure that more children are ready to start school and to learn and to give them the opportunities that education can bring. Our aim is that people from all backgrounds can benefit from those policies, and that is why the plan for change will make a real difference to people�s lives in all parts of the country.
Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
We are taking action to strengthen the UK�s resilience. Next month, the UK Resilience Academy will formally launch with the capacity to train over 4,000 people a year. Later this year, we will undertake a full national pandemic response exercise�the first of its kind in nearly a decade. Of course, resilience has to protect the most vulnerable, so we are mapping vulnerability around the country to ensure that in our resilience strategy we can protect people from all backgrounds and of all incomes.
Kevin Bonavia
The covid inquiry found that years of under-investment under the Conservatives meant that our health services were already struggling to cope even before covid struck, with waiting lists rising years before the pandemic. Does my right hon. Friend agree that investing in our NHS and tackling the terrible delays that patients, including many of my constituents in Stevenage, experience in receiving treatment are vital to improving our country�s resilience?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point not just to specific resilience measures but the most fundamental thing for national resilience: the underlying strength of the country and its services. Nowhere is that more true that in the national health service. We are investing in the national health service and are already seeing the early results of that, with the first fall in NHS waiting lists for years. It is a good start; it is not enough, and we want to build on that progress to treat patients more quickly and, indeed, build our resilience in the process.
Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
It is an absolute priority to protect the UK�s democratic processes from foreign interference. The defending democracy taskforce has been set up to protect the democratic integrity of the UK from such interference. The Prime Minister recently reconfirmed its mandate, and the Security Minister chaired a meeting of the taskforce last week.
Wera Hobhouse
As well as addressing foreign interference, will the Minister update us on how we can protect our own election infrastructure to safeguard against misinformation, voter suppression and cyber-attacks?
Pat McFadden
We had some earlier exchanges about cyber-attacks. It is important that our democratic processes uphold their integrity and that people who take part in our elections exercise their choice freely and without external interference in the process. The Government are dedicated to ensuring that that happens.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
Since the last Cabinet Office questions, new procurement rules have come into force, which will help to deliver growth, drive value for money and, crucially, give small businesses greater access to the nearly �400 billion of Government procurement. They also include stronger new powers to exclude and debar suppliers on national security and performance grounds. We are also seeking out and reducing wasteful spending, including by using artificial intelligence to go through departmental spending line by line, because it is important that taxpayer funds are used for good public service outcomes. We are seeing the initial fruits of that in the first reduction in NHS waiting lists for years.
Sarah Dyke
Women in rural areas often face additional barriers to their engagement in politics, at both local government and national Government levels. The reasons can vary: they may be social, cultural, structural, institutional, or often a perceived lack of knowledge. As we celebrate International Women�s Day, what steps is the Minister taking to address those barriers and encourage women in rural areas to access and engage with politics?
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
Why are the Government scared of allowing the National Security Adviser to give evidence to the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy?
Pat McFadden
The shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will be aware that accountability to Parliament is through Ministers. The Prime Minister is regularly accountable to Parliament, and I am very happy to appear before the Committee at any convenient time.
Alex Burghart
I am sure the Committee will be delighted to hear that. However, there is a precedent in this area: David Frost, now Lord Frost, was an adviser when he gave evidence to the Committee in May 2020. The Committee is unanimous: the new adviser must appear. The Government�s own Osmotherly rules say that Ministers should agree to a request for evidence from any
�named official, including special advisers�.
This Government promised greater transparency. Why are they breaking another promise?
Pat McFadden
Special advisers are appointed by the Minister whom they advise, and the line of accountability is through Ministers to Parliament. That is why the Prime Minister takes questions every week at this Dispatch Box. The National Security Adviser is an adviser to the Prime Minister, and as I said, I am also very happy�as are other Ministers, I imagine�to appear before the Committee at a convenient time.
Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
Pat McFadden
The right hon. Gentleman has great experience in this area, and I respect his judgment very much. He will also have seen the world rapidly change before our eyes in recent weeks. The leadership task when the world is changing so fast is to understand the change, respond to it and explain it. I believe that in the decisions the Prime Minister has taken in this area in recent weeks he has fulfilled those obligations in full and in a way that this House is proud of.
Patrick Hurley (Southport) (Lab)
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Pat McFadden
The hon. Member is absolutely right: the people who are attacking us are trying constantly to probe our defences, and as I have said a few times in the past hour, this is therefore a constant challenge. It is a combination of hardware, software and good practice, and that applies to central Government, local government, public bodies and�crucially�businesses. It is a national effort to protect the business that we do and the processes that we take for granted every day.
Tom Rutland (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Lab)
Lincoln?Jopp?(Spelthorne) (Con)
Pat McFadden
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reading my speeches so closely, but what he has misunderstood is that the teams are on the ground, and the process is to learn every week. I am glad to report that I have already visited a couple of those areas, and good work is under way. The whole point is that this will develop, it will adapt, and perhaps it will be different from the record of the Conservative party, which saw a growth of 131,000 public officials over the last�
Mr Speaker
Order. I know we have mentioned Thursday and Friday, but I think we are on Sunday already.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
To great fanfare the Government cancelled the previous Government�s contract for ministerial travel by helicopter, describing �40 million as �grossly wasteful�. We now learn that the Government have signed their own contract for ministerial helicopter travel, but it is a secret contract�so secret that we do not know how much it will cost. Will the Minister confirm whether it will cost more or less than �40 million?
Claire Hazelgrove (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Lab)
Local people across my constituency have said how much they value and welcome the vast investment that we have seen in our public services, from our NHS to our schools and beyond. Will the Minister please set out what steps are also being taken to reform our public services, working with other Cabinet colleagues?
Pat McFadden
As I have said a few times this morning, reform is important, particularly when the taxpayer is being asked to put in extra investment. That is true in schools as well as in the NHS, because we want to ensure that teachers can do what they want to do, which is teach children in the classroom. That is also why the best start in life is one of the targets in the Government�s plan for change, which was published in December.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
During their eight months in government, what assessment have the ministerial team made of the productivity of the civil service? What measures are they putting in place to improve it, and will the Minister report back to the House?
Pat McFadden
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the work that he did on public sector productivity. It was probably essential given that in the eight years between 2016 and 2024 the previous Government employed an extra 131,000 civil servants, so it is quite right that we look at the productivity for the extra employment sanctioned by the last Government.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Does the Minister have an appetite for a policy of like-for-like retaliation when a cyber-attack by a hostile state is confirmed?
Pat McFadden
I have both appetite and full faith in our excellent intelligence and security services, who protect us every day.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The best is always last.
What assessment has the Minister made of the volume of apprenticeships offered within the cyber-security industry, specifically in relation to digital software and hacking prevention online?
Pat McFadden
We want to see more apprenticeships. The numbers have come down, compared with where they should be. The area that the hon. Gentleman highlights would be a very good and fruitful one for people to learn more about and get the skills they need.
Church of Scotland (Lord High Commissioner) Bill
Pat McFadden ExcerptsTuesday 4th March 2025
(4 months, 1 week ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Church of Scotland (Lord High Commissioner) Act 2024-26 View all Church of Scotland (Lord High Commissioner) Act 2024-26 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Given the mood in the House, I do not intend to detain people for long. By now we know the purpose of the Bill: to allow Catholics to be appointed to the role of Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. That is the Bill in a nutshell. Today’s debates have demonstrated that there is wide support for the Bill across the House.
I thank the Church of Scotland, the Catholic Church and the Scottish Government for their engagement and collaboration in the development of the legislation. I also thank all those who spoke in our debates, including the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie), my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Alison Taylor), the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow West (Patricia Ferguson), the hon. Member for Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber (Brendan O’Hara), my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (John Grady) and my right hon. Friend the Minister of State for the Cabinet Office. I am grateful to all of them.
As we have said, at the signing of the St Margaret’s declaration at Dunfermline abbey in 2022, both the Catholic Church and the Church of Scotland declared that what they hold in common is far greater than what divides them, and that they would commit to continue working towards greater unity. I hope that this Bill, in its small way, will continue in that spirit.
The hon. Member for Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber referred to 1923 and asked if I was there. I was not there, but in the same year W. B. Yeats wrote that “peace comes dropping slow”. Maybe equality sometimes comes dropping slow too, but today we have taken a small and important step, and I commend the Bill to the House.
