Commons Chamber
14:33
Issue of Writ
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Issue of Writ
Order, Order, order. Order, order. Kirsty Order, order. Kirsty Blackman.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr. speaker, my two colleagues have been elected to Scotland's national Parliament, and so this is national Parliament, and so this is a bittersweet task for me here. I beg to move that, Mr. Speaker, do issue his warrant to the clerk of issue his warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out a new writ for the electing of a member to serve in this present Parliament serve in this present Parliament for the Borough constituency of Aberdeen South, in the room of Stephen Flynn, who, since his Stephen Flynn, who, since his election for the said Borough constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Manor of I.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that I do issue my warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out the new writ for the electing of the member to serve the electing of the member to serve in the present Parliament for the Borough constituency of Aberdeen South, in the room of Stephen Flynn, who, since his election for the said Borough constituency, has been said Borough constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff, His Majesty's Manor of Northstead, in the County of York.
Northstead, in the County of York. As many of that opinion say, I. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. I never thought it would represent a Yorkshire constituency
**** Possible New Speaker ****
in England. Kirsty Blackman. I beg to move that, Mr. Speaker, do issue his warrant to the clerk do issue his warrant to the clerk of new route for the election of a member route for the election of a member to serve in this present agency of Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, in the room of Stephen Patrick Gettins, room of Stephen Patrick Gettins, who, since his election for the said county constituency, has been appointed to the Office of Steward appointed to the Office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Three Chiltern, hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham in the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
County of Buckingham. The question is that I do wish you my warrant to the clerk of the you my warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out the new writ. The electing of the member to serve in the present Parliament for the the present Parliament for the county constituency of Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, in the room of Stephen Patrick Gethins, who, since Stephen Patrick Gethins, who, since his election for the said county constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Three Chiltern, hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham in the County of Buckingham.
As many of that opinion say, I. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Even farther south for an English constituency right. We now come to private business. Motion to be moved, sir. Mark Tami the question is on the Order Paper, as
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Mr. speaker, my two colleagues have been elected to Scotland's national Parliament, and so this is national Parliament, and so this is a bittersweet task for me here. I beg to move that, Mr. Speaker, do issue his warrant to the clerk of issue his warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out a new writ for the electing of a member to serve in this present Parliament serve in this present Parliament for the Borough constituency of Aberdeen South, in the room of Stephen Flynn, who, since his Stephen Flynn, who, since his election for the said Borough constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Manor of I.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is that I do issue my warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out the new writ for the electing of the member to serve the electing of the member to serve in the present Parliament for the Borough constituency of Aberdeen South, in the room of Stephen Flynn, who, since his election for the said Borough constituency, has been said Borough constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff, His Majesty's Manor of Northstead, in the County of York.
Northstead, in the County of York. As many of that opinion say, I. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. I never thought it would represent a Yorkshire constituency
**** Possible New Speaker ****
in England. Kirsty Blackman. I beg to move that, Mr. Speaker, do issue his warrant to the clerk do issue his warrant to the clerk of new route for the election of a member route for the election of a member to serve in this present agency of Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, in the room of Stephen Patrick Gettins, room of Stephen Patrick Gettins, who, since his election for the said county constituency, has been appointed to the Office of Steward appointed to the Office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Three Chiltern, hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham in the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
County of Buckingham. The question is that I do wish you my warrant to the clerk of the you my warrant to the clerk of the Crown to make out the new writ. The electing of the member to serve in the present Parliament for the the present Parliament for the county constituency of Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, in the room of Stephen Patrick Gethins, who, since Stephen Patrick Gethins, who, since his election for the said county constituency, has been appointed to the office of Steward and Bailiff of His Majesty's Three Chiltern, hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham in the County of Buckingham.
As many of that opinion say, I. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Even farther south for an English constituency right. We now come to private business. Motion to be moved, sir. Mark Tami the question is on the Order Paper, as
14:36
14:37
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Well, I'm very grateful, Mr. Speaker, with permission I'd like to make a statement on the youth justice system in England and Wales. Today I'm publishing a white paper with a once in a generation set of reforms to build a youth justice system that intervenes early, that responds more effectively and does more to turn young lives around so that we can better protect the public. And for this, I'm very grateful to the Member for Rother Valley and before him, the Member for Scunthorpe, for all their hard work in getting us to this point.
Over the past two decades, the number of children entering the youth justice system and detained in custody has fallen dramatically. This progress is the result of a real cross-party consensus, a modern new justice system that begun under Tony Blair's government and was continued by Lord Cameron, who famously said he would hug a hoodie during his time as Prime Minister who with Lord Gove, asked me to carry out the Lammy review. But this success has brought a new challenge.
Our justice system is now working with significantly fewer but significantly more vulnerable young people at significantly higher risk. Most begin their journey into crime long before they come to the attention of the police, their lives shaped by instability, by trauma, and often by neglect. The kind of childhood that most of us in this house could barely imagine. Some grow up surrounded by violence, addiction and abuse. Others are moved endlessly around children's homes or foster care placements, never staying in one place long enough for the stability to feel safe, let alone the love and care that would enable them to really thrive.
All are factors which make them more likely to end up in the justice system. And when we fail to intervene early enough, the consequences can be devastating for those children, of course, but for the victims also and for entire communities. Because, Mr. Speaker, around 80% of prolific adult offenders first enter the justice system as children. The risk children face have also changed. Of course, today's children are navigating online harms, criminal grooming through social media and exposure to extremist content.
Too often, the system has struggled, frankly, to keep pace. Opportunities to intervene are missed. Warning signs go unnoticed, and agencies do not consistently share information. This means children can slip through the cracks between services, which of course risks escalation, and responsibility between those agencies becomes blurred. The lessons emerging from the Southport inquiry following the tragic murders of three young children by Axel Rudi Cabana, a violent 17 year old who was known to authorities, are a terrible reminder of what can happen when systems are not sufficiently coordinated, not sufficiently decisive in the face of escalating concerns.
We must learn those lessons and also strike the right balance. The system must recognise that they are still developing and that most have huge capacity to change. We should not over criminalise, but at the same time, avoiding criminalisation must never mean overlooking risk or failing to act. Benign. Neglect, however well-intentioned, is still neglect where behaviour causes harm. Timely, proportionate and effective intervention is essential to protect the public and support children to change course. That principle is reflected throughout this White Paper.
First, we will intervene earlier, investing an additional £46 million over the next three years in our turnaround programme, which is already showing promising results in diverting children away from crime and by strengthening join up with other programs that support children on the cusp of offending. We'll also strengthen and expand the use of parenting orders, which can compel parents to address their child's behaviour, including attending counselling or guidance sessions, and if they do not act, they will face penalties and we will deliver on our manifesto commitment to introduce an offence of child criminal exploitation.
Building on the work carried out by others, including, of course, Baroness May placing the focus where it belongs on the adults who groom, the adults who coerce, the adults who profit from exploiting children. And through the new diversion orders, we will tackle the increasing number of young people who commit terrorism offences, allowing agencies to intervene before that risk escalates. Mr. speaker, where offending does happen, we will make sure children get the right response at the right time. Diversion must be firm, fair and effective.
We will fundamentally reform the youth out of court resolution framework to improve consistency and public confidence, so children receive interventions that genuinely address their behaviour and cut crime. We will also pilot problem solving, youth intervention courts, laser focussed on rehabilitation and prevention. They bring together judges, youth workers, specialist support to tackle the root causes of offending, whether mental ill health, school absence, addiction or exploitation, while still demanding accountability from young offenders. Of course, Mr. Speaker, custody will always be necessary for the most dangerous offences.
But for many children, even a short spell inside can deepen their problems, exposing them to more violence and criminal influence. So we're setting an ambition to cut the number of children remanded into custody by 25% over this Parliament, alongside an intention to reduce the use of short custodial sentences, which so often are ineffective. With more than two thirds of children going on to reoffend. Instead, we'll invest £5 million in intensive community placements and stronger bail support, protecting the public while giving children a genuine chance to change course.
Mr. speaker, we will also reform the childhood criminal records regime, because the mistakes made at 13 should not become a life sentence of closed doors and lost chances, not least where this prevents young people from getting a job. A crucial factor in helping offenders turn their lives around. And we will carefully consider the age of criminal responsibility in this country, which currently sits at just ten years old. This bill reflects modern understanding of childhood vulnerability and development. We'll also strengthen local youth justice services so they're better equipped to meet the needs of today's children.
We will soon set out detailed proposals for a new approach to youth justice, oversight and funding arrangements, so that children receive consistently high quality support wherever they live. This includes reforming the Youth Justice Board to sharpen its focus on continuous improvement of local services, and transform some key board functions to the Ministry of Justice so that Ministers are fully accountable for how the system performs. And while I've been clear that custody will, where appropriate, be necessary for public safety, we will take further action to improve safety and education across the youth estate while setting a clear, long term direction of travel away from large, outdated institutions towards smaller settings that can better rehabilitate children.
Mr. speaker, this White Paper is also about fairness. Not all children in our justice system are equal. Those in care are still far more likely to be drawn into the system. Black children remain vastly overrepresented. Some 22% of the youth custodial population, compared to just 6% of 10 to 17 year olds, but also as victims themselves, being around six times more likely to be victims of homicide. I warned about this disproportionality when David Cameron asked me to do the Lammy review nearly a decade ago.
The fact it still persists today should shame us all. These reforms begin to address that building a system that's fairer and more consistent. Mr. speaker, that is not a choice between punishment and rehabilitation. It's about what works protecting the public, cutting reoffending and stopping vulnerable children, so often victims themselves from becoming tomorrow's dangerous adult offenders. This government will do whatever it takes to give more children the chance of a better future and to keep the British public safe.
I commend this statement to the House.
Over the past two decades, the number of children entering the youth justice system and detained in custody has fallen dramatically. This progress is the result of a real cross-party consensus, a modern new justice system that begun under Tony Blair's government and was continued by Lord Cameron, who famously said he would hug a hoodie during his time as Prime Minister who with Lord Gove, asked me to carry out the Lammy review. But this success has brought a new challenge.
Our justice system is now working with significantly fewer but significantly more vulnerable young people at significantly higher risk. Most begin their journey into crime long before they come to the attention of the police, their lives shaped by instability, by trauma, and often by neglect. The kind of childhood that most of us in this house could barely imagine. Some grow up surrounded by violence, addiction and abuse. Others are moved endlessly around children's homes or foster care placements, never staying in one place long enough for the stability to feel safe, let alone the love and care that would enable them to really thrive.
All are factors which make them more likely to end up in the justice system. And when we fail to intervene early enough, the consequences can be devastating for those children, of course, but for the victims also and for entire communities. Because, Mr. Speaker, around 80% of prolific adult offenders first enter the justice system as children. The risk children face have also changed. Of course, today's children are navigating online harms, criminal grooming through social media and exposure to extremist content.
Too often, the system has struggled, frankly, to keep pace. Opportunities to intervene are missed. Warning signs go unnoticed, and agencies do not consistently share information. This means children can slip through the cracks between services, which of course risks escalation, and responsibility between those agencies becomes blurred. The lessons emerging from the Southport inquiry following the tragic murders of three young children by Axel Rudi Cabana, a violent 17 year old who was known to authorities, are a terrible reminder of what can happen when systems are not sufficiently coordinated, not sufficiently decisive in the face of escalating concerns.
We must learn those lessons and also strike the right balance. The system must recognise that they are still developing and that most have huge capacity to change. We should not over criminalise, but at the same time, avoiding criminalisation must never mean overlooking risk or failing to act. Benign. Neglect, however well-intentioned, is still neglect where behaviour causes harm. Timely, proportionate and effective intervention is essential to protect the public and support children to change course. That principle is reflected throughout this White Paper.
First, we will intervene earlier, investing an additional £46 million over the next three years in our turnaround programme, which is already showing promising results in diverting children away from crime and by strengthening join up with other programs that support children on the cusp of offending. We'll also strengthen and expand the use of parenting orders, which can compel parents to address their child's behaviour, including attending counselling or guidance sessions, and if they do not act, they will face penalties and we will deliver on our manifesto commitment to introduce an offence of child criminal exploitation.
Building on the work carried out by others, including, of course, Baroness May placing the focus where it belongs on the adults who groom, the adults who coerce, the adults who profit from exploiting children. And through the new diversion orders, we will tackle the increasing number of young people who commit terrorism offences, allowing agencies to intervene before that risk escalates. Mr. speaker, where offending does happen, we will make sure children get the right response at the right time. Diversion must be firm, fair and effective.
We will fundamentally reform the youth out of court resolution framework to improve consistency and public confidence, so children receive interventions that genuinely address their behaviour and cut crime. We will also pilot problem solving, youth intervention courts, laser focussed on rehabilitation and prevention. They bring together judges, youth workers, specialist support to tackle the root causes of offending, whether mental ill health, school absence, addiction or exploitation, while still demanding accountability from young offenders. Of course, Mr. Speaker, custody will always be necessary for the most dangerous offences.
But for many children, even a short spell inside can deepen their problems, exposing them to more violence and criminal influence. So we're setting an ambition to cut the number of children remanded into custody by 25% over this Parliament, alongside an intention to reduce the use of short custodial sentences, which so often are ineffective. With more than two thirds of children going on to reoffend. Instead, we'll invest £5 million in intensive community placements and stronger bail support, protecting the public while giving children a genuine chance to change course.
Mr. speaker, we will also reform the childhood criminal records regime, because the mistakes made at 13 should not become a life sentence of closed doors and lost chances, not least where this prevents young people from getting a job. A crucial factor in helping offenders turn their lives around. And we will carefully consider the age of criminal responsibility in this country, which currently sits at just ten years old. This bill reflects modern understanding of childhood vulnerability and development. We'll also strengthen local youth justice services so they're better equipped to meet the needs of today's children.
We will soon set out detailed proposals for a new approach to youth justice, oversight and funding arrangements, so that children receive consistently high quality support wherever they live. This includes reforming the Youth Justice Board to sharpen its focus on continuous improvement of local services, and transform some key board functions to the Ministry of Justice so that Ministers are fully accountable for how the system performs. And while I've been clear that custody will, where appropriate, be necessary for public safety, we will take further action to improve safety and education across the youth estate while setting a clear, long term direction of travel away from large, outdated institutions towards smaller settings that can better rehabilitate children.
Mr. speaker, this White Paper is also about fairness. Not all children in our justice system are equal. Those in care are still far more likely to be drawn into the system. Black children remain vastly overrepresented. Some 22% of the youth custodial population, compared to just 6% of 10 to 17 year olds, but also as victims themselves, being around six times more likely to be victims of homicide. I warned about this disproportionality when David Cameron asked me to do the Lammy review nearly a decade ago.
The fact it still persists today should shame us all. These reforms begin to address that building a system that's fairer and more consistent. Mr. speaker, that is not a choice between punishment and rehabilitation. It's about what works protecting the public, cutting reoffending and stopping vulnerable children, so often victims themselves from becoming tomorrow's dangerous adult offenders. This government will do whatever it takes to give more children the chance of a better future and to keep the British public safe.
I commend this statement to the House.
14:47
Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
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Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)
Nick Timothy thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are. It's obvious now in the legacy hunting stage of this government, less a range of government, less a range of exhausted volcanoes, more a row of trampled molehills. Ministers are desperate to be remembered for something. This morning a word cloud was published by the pollsters at More in Common, the public was asked for the Prime Minister's greatest achievement, emblazoned across the page in huge capital letters was the sad word nothing. But today's announcement is a fitting tribute to the Justice Secretary and his predecessor.
So desperate are they to find the causes of crime. They sometimes forget that their job is to prevent and punish crime itself. The truth is, Labour just don't have it in their DNA to be tough on crime. They've let 60,000 criminals out of jail early. They're abolishing short term sentences. So almost all shoplifters and the majority of criminals will no longer be sent to prison. And they're pretending they're doing these things because they have to, but they're doing them because they want to.
The prisons Ministers says only a third of prisoners should be locked up. The sentencing Ministers says a pretty big chunk of the overall population shouldn't be in prison. And today's announcement is more of the same. So I have some specific questions for the right hon. Gentleman. He wants to increase the age of criminal responsibility to reflect a modern understanding of childhood vulnerability and development, from smoking bans to voting rights. This government has a confused view of childhood. So what should be the age of criminal responsibility? With the wave of sexual and violent crime committed by illegal immigrants, many of whom pretend to be children, can he guarantee that these people will not escape justice a second time by faking their real age to the police? The government says it will review the function and purpose of criminal courts for child defendants, but the purpose of a criminal court is obvious it's to try criminals.
So can the Justice Secretary rule out abolishing criminal trials for under 18 seconds? The government also says it wants to end lifelong disclosure requirements for the under 18 seconds. Can he guarantee that those requirements will still apply for those guilty of violent crime and prolific offenders? The government says it will slash custodial remand for young offenders by a quarter, but remand should be used in response to need, not arbitrary targets. So what is his alternative? Will he just send criminals home and will he stick to this target regardless of the level of violent crime and repeat offending? The government wants more parenting orders.
But this morning the Justice Secretary said they are not used much at the moment because all judges can do to enforce them is issue a fine. He was unclear on this question. So will Ministers who don't comply face jail? The figures you were asked. The right hon. Gentleman was asked on the radio this morning whether parents who do not comply will face custodial sentences themselves, and he fudged that question, so I'm asking him to answer it now. The figures should. The figures show young repeat offenders often start with theft and move on to drug offences and violence.
Yet the government's big idea is to stop punishing swathes of crimes committed by under 18 seconds. The gangs who swarmed shops to steal goods in places like Oxford Street, Ilford and Clapham, do not need to be put on a course. They need clear punishment and that can include prison. Mr. speaker, the results of soft touch liberalism are visible in towns and cities up and down the country. Yet. Yet the changes the Justice Secretary is announcing today risk amounting to more of the same.
This is a big call. And if youth crime goes up as a result, it will be on this government.
So desperate are they to find the causes of crime. They sometimes forget that their job is to prevent and punish crime itself. The truth is, Labour just don't have it in their DNA to be tough on crime. They've let 60,000 criminals out of jail early. They're abolishing short term sentences. So almost all shoplifters and the majority of criminals will no longer be sent to prison. And they're pretending they're doing these things because they have to, but they're doing them because they want to.
The prisons Ministers says only a third of prisoners should be locked up. The sentencing Ministers says a pretty big chunk of the overall population shouldn't be in prison. And today's announcement is more of the same. So I have some specific questions for the right hon. Gentleman. He wants to increase the age of criminal responsibility to reflect a modern understanding of childhood vulnerability and development, from smoking bans to voting rights. This government has a confused view of childhood. So what should be the age of criminal responsibility? With the wave of sexual and violent crime committed by illegal immigrants, many of whom pretend to be children, can he guarantee that these people will not escape justice a second time by faking their real age to the police? The government says it will review the function and purpose of criminal courts for child defendants, but the purpose of a criminal court is obvious it's to try criminals.
So can the Justice Secretary rule out abolishing criminal trials for under 18 seconds? The government also says it wants to end lifelong disclosure requirements for the under 18 seconds. Can he guarantee that those requirements will still apply for those guilty of violent crime and prolific offenders? The government says it will slash custodial remand for young offenders by a quarter, but remand should be used in response to need, not arbitrary targets. So what is his alternative? Will he just send criminals home and will he stick to this target regardless of the level of violent crime and repeat offending? The government wants more parenting orders.
But this morning the Justice Secretary said they are not used much at the moment because all judges can do to enforce them is issue a fine. He was unclear on this question. So will Ministers who don't comply face jail? The figures you were asked. The right hon. Gentleman was asked on the radio this morning whether parents who do not comply will face custodial sentences themselves, and he fudged that question, so I'm asking him to answer it now. The figures should. The figures show young repeat offenders often start with theft and move on to drug offences and violence.
Yet the government's big idea is to stop punishing swathes of crimes committed by under 18 seconds. The gangs who swarmed shops to steal goods in places like Oxford Street, Ilford and Clapham, do not need to be put on a course. They need clear punishment and that can include prison. Mr. speaker, the results of soft touch liberalism are visible in towns and cities up and down the country. Yet. Yet the changes the Justice Secretary is announcing today risk amounting to more of the same.
This is a big call. And if youth crime goes up as a result, it will be on this government.
14:51
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, Mr. Speaker, the Tories have a mixed record when it comes have a mixed record when it comes to youth justice and keeping young people out of criminality. We people out of criminality. We should remember their cuts to local authority spending saw a huge fall in council services for young people, about 70% in real terms. A billion was lost whilst they were in power. This led to the closure of many youth clubs, a reduction to outreach work which was vital to keeping those young people on the right track.
Youth workers completely undermined all that early intervention work, stopped an entire generation sacrificed at the altar of austerity, they all say, and the Member for West Suffolk will know about this because he was right at the driving wheel of this. They cut 20,000 police officers, 7000 PCSOs, leading to a collapse in visible neighbourhood policing and on their watch over. And this is this is this this really is just he really should listen to this on their watch. Over a thousand Sure Start centres closed early intervention demolished on their watch.
But I said it was a mixed record because there was a fall in the number of first time entrants into the youth justice system. It peaked at around 110 000 back in 2007, but it had fallen to just 7500 whilst they were in office in 2023. When they entered government, there were around 2000 children in youth custody. By the end of their tenure, it had fallen to just over a thousand. These were great achievements. It's interesting that the hon.
Gentleman doesn't want to celebrate those achievements that begun under my David Cameron and Michael Gove. He asks about the age of criminal responsibility. He will know the Bar Council is consulting on this issue, and I look forward to receiving the conclusions of their work. He's asked about foreign national offenders. It's. We're absolutely clear in this consultation that we will look at those 16 and 17 year olds that arrive in our country from somewhere else, commit a violent crime.
I'm afraid they'll be deported. We're really clear about that. And we've driven up deportation in our country. He asks about whether we are abolishing the youth court, whether we are abolishing the criminal standard. Of course we're not, but we are consulting on youth intervention courts because just as we've seen in the family area, in our courts, problem solving approaches gripping the young person, gripping their parents, gripping those that work with them, looking at the addiction issues that sit there looking at mental health, giving them support, holding the multidisciplinary teams to account can really make a difference.
And we stand by that. He asks about young people on remand. We want to recruit the new generation of specialist foster carers. Much better to have a responsible, loving adult. We used to have them, they abolish them, we want to bring them back and grow them so we can support these young people. A range of things that we can do in this white paper, and I encourage him to read it in detail, because a lot of his predecessors would agree with him.
It's a good work and we need to get on with it.
Youth workers completely undermined all that early intervention work, stopped an entire generation sacrificed at the altar of austerity, they all say, and the Member for West Suffolk will know about this because he was right at the driving wheel of this. They cut 20,000 police officers, 7000 PCSOs, leading to a collapse in visible neighbourhood policing and on their watch over. And this is this is this this really is just he really should listen to this on their watch. Over a thousand Sure Start centres closed early intervention demolished on their watch.
But I said it was a mixed record because there was a fall in the number of first time entrants into the youth justice system. It peaked at around 110 000 back in 2007, but it had fallen to just 7500 whilst they were in office in 2023. When they entered government, there were around 2000 children in youth custody. By the end of their tenure, it had fallen to just over a thousand. These were great achievements. It's interesting that the hon.
Gentleman doesn't want to celebrate those achievements that begun under my David Cameron and Michael Gove. He asks about the age of criminal responsibility. He will know the Bar Council is consulting on this issue, and I look forward to receiving the conclusions of their work. He's asked about foreign national offenders. It's. We're absolutely clear in this consultation that we will look at those 16 and 17 year olds that arrive in our country from somewhere else, commit a violent crime.
I'm afraid they'll be deported. We're really clear about that. And we've driven up deportation in our country. He asks about whether we are abolishing the youth court, whether we are abolishing the criminal standard. Of course we're not, but we are consulting on youth intervention courts because just as we've seen in the family area, in our courts, problem solving approaches gripping the young person, gripping their parents, gripping those that work with them, looking at the addiction issues that sit there looking at mental health, giving them support, holding the multidisciplinary teams to account can really make a difference.
And we stand by that. He asks about young people on remand. We want to recruit the new generation of specialist foster carers. Much better to have a responsible, loving adult. We used to have them, they abolish them, we want to bring them back and grow them so we can support these young people. A range of things that we can do in this white paper, and I encourage him to read it in detail, because a lot of his predecessors would agree with him.
It's a good work and we need to get on with it.
14:54
Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)
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Andy Slaughter MP (Hammersmith and Chiswick, Labour)
Yeah. >> Just like committee. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Can I welcome the White Paper, which shines a welcome light on an often neglected part of the criminal justice system, the criminal justice system, the remarkable drop in numbers of young people in custody from a high of 3400 a day is sometimes box ticked as job done. But when half those young people are on remand and a majority of those don't go on to receive a custodial sentence, there's clearly more to be done.
The justice committee is currently conducting an inquiry into children and young adults in a secure state, while the government's right to look at early intervention and alternatives to custody for the Lord Chancellor also look at the successes and failures of the current custodial system for young people, and how it can better rehabilitate and reduce the risk of re-offending.
The justice committee is currently conducting an inquiry into children and young adults in a secure state, while the government's right to look at early intervention and alternatives to custody for the Lord Chancellor also look at the successes and failures of the current custodial system for young people, and how it can better rehabilitate and reduce the risk of re-offending.
14:55
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
We will look at this and do the necessary inquiry, and I know that necessary inquiry, and I know that his Select Committee is doing that work at the moment. He is concerned, work at the moment. He is concerned, quite rightly, about the huge rates both of prolific crime and recidivism. And clearly the system isn't working with this group of young people now present in the system, sometimes over two thirds of them going on to reoffend. We must do better, we can do better, and we do put rehabilitation at the Paper.
14:56
Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
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Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
Liberal Democrat spokesperson Jess Brown-Fuller. Government's White Paper represents a truly critical opportunity to transform the youth justice system and, importantly, reduce lifetime and, importantly, reduce lifetime offending. We know that most offenders in our prisons today are repeat offenders, and that persistent offending often begins early in life, with 8 in 10 prolific offenders in England and Wales committing their first crime as a child. So we must stop this chain of escalation, and the earlier we intervene, the better. Nowhere is this more applicable than for children in care.
Those from ethnic minorities and those with special educational needs who are disproportionately represented in the justice system. Will the Ministers set out how this overhaul will ensure that these children, given their specific vulnerabilities, will receive the targeted support that they so desperately need? And can I take the opportunity to highlight the great work of the organisation, shift and encourage the Deputy Prime Minister to engage with them? Because I do believe that their model could be rolled out across the the country before these young people even commit their first crime.
Education for young offenders can be a crucial step in diverting them from a path. To reoffending, we're pleased that the Children's Commissioner will undertake a review into education in RYO. But can the Justice Secretary ensure that this will take into account 80% of young people sentenced, have special educational needs and make sure that the support that they're getting in those institutes is fit for purpose. Mr. speaker, the Youth Justice Board provides vital, independent oversight of the youth justice system. Yet the government has chosen not to act on the report it commissioned from Steve Crocker, instead bringing a number of its functions more directly within the remit of the Ministry of Justice.
What is the purpose of these reforms? What benefit will they gain from bringing it in-house, and will the Justice Secretary address the concerns across the sector that they risk reducing specialist experience and weakening independent accountability? And finally, will the Ministers set out how the use of parenting orders will affect the recruitment of foster parents, those being asked to take on special guardianship orders or or kinship arrangements, or those considering adoption. And if they won't apply to those families, how will they be supported effectively to ensure that it doesn't lead to further family breakdowns and more children ending up in the care system?
Those from ethnic minorities and those with special educational needs who are disproportionately represented in the justice system. Will the Ministers set out how this overhaul will ensure that these children, given their specific vulnerabilities, will receive the targeted support that they so desperately need? And can I take the opportunity to highlight the great work of the organisation, shift and encourage the Deputy Prime Minister to engage with them? Because I do believe that their model could be rolled out across the the country before these young people even commit their first crime.
Education for young offenders can be a crucial step in diverting them from a path. To reoffending, we're pleased that the Children's Commissioner will undertake a review into education in RYO. But can the Justice Secretary ensure that this will take into account 80% of young people sentenced, have special educational needs and make sure that the support that they're getting in those institutes is fit for purpose. Mr. speaker, the Youth Justice Board provides vital, independent oversight of the youth justice system. Yet the government has chosen not to act on the report it commissioned from Steve Crocker, instead bringing a number of its functions more directly within the remit of the Ministry of Justice.
What is the purpose of these reforms? What benefit will they gain from bringing it in-house, and will the Justice Secretary address the concerns across the sector that they risk reducing specialist experience and weakening independent accountability? And finally, will the Ministers set out how the use of parenting orders will affect the recruitment of foster parents, those being asked to take on special guardianship orders or or kinship arrangements, or those considering adoption. And if they won't apply to those families, how will they be supported effectively to ensure that it doesn't lead to further family breakdowns and more children ending up in the care system?
14:58
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Yeah. Lady for the manner in which she puts her remarks and her understanding that we have seen understanding that we have seen this revolving door, that two thirds of children and young people released from custody are going on to reoffend, and we've got to do something about it, and that many of those young people are extremely vulnerable. Thank her for mentioning the cohort of young people, way too many who are within the care system. And I'm very grateful that the Ministers for care is alongside me and takes a huge interest in the work that we do together as departments to deal with this area.
She raises young people who are adopted. She knows that I'm a parent of an adopted child. I take these issues extremely seriously. And she's right. We are looking in totality at the way that parenting orders have worked. She will recognise that there must be something going wrong. If the amount of parenting orders that were issued over the last decade have fallen from over 1000 to just 33 last year. So we've got to look at it in the round and ensure that our judges have the right tools to support parents and guardians over this next period.
She raises the reforms we're making to the Youth Justice Board. It's still the case. If you look across the country that there's a postcode lottery and we've got to eliminate that postcode lottery also because of online harms, because of grooming, because of mental health, because of neurodiversity. And I was in Feltham recently and I saw the good work that they're doing with young people who are neurodiverse. It is important that the department itself, working with our colleagues in DCFs, working with our colleagues at health, do bring some of these powers back to the centre so we can get coherence across the country and end that postcode lottery.
Very great.
She raises young people who are adopted. She knows that I'm a parent of an adopted child. I take these issues extremely seriously. And she's right. We are looking in totality at the way that parenting orders have worked. She will recognise that there must be something going wrong. If the amount of parenting orders that were issued over the last decade have fallen from over 1000 to just 33 last year. So we've got to look at it in the round and ensure that our judges have the right tools to support parents and guardians over this next period.
She raises the reforms we're making to the Youth Justice Board. It's still the case. If you look across the country that there's a postcode lottery and we've got to eliminate that postcode lottery also because of online harms, because of grooming, because of mental health, because of neurodiversity. And I was in Feltham recently and I saw the good work that they're doing with young people who are neurodiverse. It is important that the department itself, working with our colleagues in DCFs, working with our colleagues at health, do bring some of these powers back to the centre so we can get coherence across the country and end that postcode lottery.
Very great.
15:00
15:00
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, I'm very grateful to her for mentoring turnaround, which is for mentoring turnaround, which is such an important scheme begun such an important scheme begun under the last government, but continued under us, making a big difference at diverting these young difference at diverting these young people. I will look closely at its use in her constituency particularly, but what we are absolutely clear on is not just diverting them, but ensuring that we're diverting them to quality. And when we look at the resistance rates of 7%, this is an exceptional turnaround programme.
15:01
Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir Jeremy Wright KC MP (Kenilworth and Southam, Conservative)
Jeremy Wright thank you very >> Jeremy Wright thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Can I ask the Secretary of State about two things. First of all, education, which he's First of all, education, which he's mentioned. It is, of course, important to look at education for those young people in a custodial setting. But would he agree with me? It's also important to consider the link between attendance at education and rehabilitation for those who've received non-custodial disposals will ensure that the proposals he makes make that link very clear.
And secondly, in relation to advocacy on behalf of young people within the youth justice system, he will recognise that with a smaller number of young people going through the system, it's more and more difficult to maintain a specialist advocacy profession and to make sure they are properly rewarded for the very specific skills they need to develop. So can I ask him to look at the fee structure for advocates and make sure that we continue to encourage the right balance of skills and attention to conferences, and getting to know the client.
That's particularly important for young people in the youth justice system.
And secondly, in relation to advocacy on behalf of young people within the youth justice system, he will recognise that with a smaller number of young people going through the system, it's more and more difficult to maintain a specialist advocacy profession and to make sure they are properly rewarded for the very specific skills they need to develop. So can I ask him to look at the fee structure for advocates and make sure that we continue to encourage the right balance of skills and attention to conferences, and getting to know the client.
That's particularly important for young people in the youth justice system.
15:02
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Of course, his expertise Gentleman. Of course, his expertise in these areas. He's right to mention the education system and the role it plays, not just for the role it plays, not just for those in custody. And there is more to do for young people in custody in relation to education, to many of them during a pandemic, spending time in their cells and not out outside their cells, actually getting skills. But we are looking at reforming the the referral orders particularly, and ensuring that where you previously had just volunteer panels, keeping up to date with these young people in communities, that we are looking a bit closer at the role of the judge and professionals in those referrals to make sure that that education is actually taking place.
And again, to get that more multidisciplinary approach in terms of the outcomes for those young people. And I thank him for mentioning special advocacy. I want to assure him that my hon. Friend is looking closely at this, is chairing a group looking specifically at the issues.
And again, to get that more multidisciplinary approach in terms of the outcomes for those young people. And I thank him for mentioning special advocacy. I want to assure him that my hon. Friend is looking closely at this, is chairing a group looking specifically at the issues.
15:03
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)
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Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West, Labour)
Brenda, just. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> I welcome the White Paper. My right hon. Friend has already acknowledged that 80% of prolific acknowledged that 80% of prolific offenders first offend as children, and two thirds of children reoffend within a year after being released from custody. So does he agree that early and fast intervention is crucial to cut crime? And can. And can he please also outline what specific youth provision, including mental health help, is available to young people in my constituency of Wolverhampton West to deal with this issue?
15:04
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, I will look specifically >> Well, I will look specifically at his constituency, and it should be the case that turnaround and diversion work can make a difference, and I hope it's making a difference in his patch. I should a difference in his patch. I should tell him that I met with the previous health secretary to discuss these issues, and I look forward to taking them up with the new Health Secretary in the coming days.
15:04
Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
Ashley Fox thank you, Mr. >> Ashley Fox thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I thank the Lord Chancellor for his statement? The Justice Affairs Select Committee Justice Affairs Select Committee heard that there were only 412 young people in custody as of young people in custody as of February 2026, of whom about 44% are on remand. So when the Lord Chancellor says with a great flourish, he intends to reduce the number by 25%. He's actually talking of reducing a very small number, about 185, down to about 135.
It's a very small number of individuals, and I would just put to him that rather than making a huge effort, as he appears to be doing in this very small reduction, his efforts would be better spent on improving education and training within the youth custody system here.
It's a very small number of individuals, and I would just put to him that rather than making a huge effort, as he appears to be doing in this very small reduction, his efforts would be better spent on improving education and training within the youth custody system here.
15:05
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, I say very gently to the hon. Gentleman that you can do both improve the education system in our youth custody system. And I entirely accept there's there's more to do, particularly coming out of Covid, and particularly because of chronic underinvestment by his party. But I'd also just encourage him to think a bit harder about that remand population. There is, of course, tremendous churn amongst those 400 young people who are currently in custody. And therefore, we're not talking about a slither of 25% adding up to 135.
That's not the case. It's significantly more than that, because over the course of a year, we are getting into the thousands of young people. He shakes his head. That is basic maths. Speaker.
That's not the case. It's significantly more than that, because over the course of a year, we are getting into the thousands of young people. He shakes his head. That is basic maths. Speaker.
15:06
Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )
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Andrew Pakes MP (Peterborough, Labour )
Can I. on record my thanks to the right hon. Friend, but also my hon. Friend the Ministers for Youth Justice for their work on this Justice for their work on this issue. Mr. speaker, one of the most heartbreaking things I get to do as a member of Parliament is meet families and young people who have been failed by the system and taken actions which have caused disturbance for their families, for the wider community, accountability matters. But one of the crushing realities I've learned as an MP is that state failure plays a large part in the criminality we see in lack of options for young people.
Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that youth intervention courts and others will begin to address not just the criminality and accountability, but the lack of opportunity in training, in caring, in support and education, and particularly in my passion for apprenticeships so that we divert people from prison in the first place. But those in custody have opportunities when they come out as well.
Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that youth intervention courts and others will begin to address not just the criminality and accountability, but the lack of opportunity in training, in caring, in support and education, and particularly in my passion for apprenticeships so that we divert people from prison in the first place. But those in custody have opportunities when they come out as well.
15:07
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Very grateful to my hon. Friend, and of course, I know his city of Peterborough very well. Peterborough has a vibrant third sector. We've got to get them involved with those young people in communities, offering them opportunities, and there's no doubt about it. Skills and training and Peterborough again in the whole of East Anglia area has lots of opportunities and we want those young people taking them up. Lee Dillon Mr Speaker. made.
15:07
Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)
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Mr Lee Dillon MP (Newbury, Liberal Democrat)
Within this White paper that as >> Within this White paper that as Liberal Democrats, we can support. So I gently ask the Deputy Prime So I gently ask the Deputy Prime Minister that what evidence does the government have that the potential threat of a prison sentence will be an effective mechanism for compliance with a parental order? Have the government done an impact assessment? And how can you guarantee that the use of stricter punishment will not adversely affect the outcomes for that child involved?
15:08
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, I recognise why the hon. Gentleman has raised this extremely rare. You would expect a judge to rare. You would expect a judge to remit someone to custody or parent custody in this circumstances, but I think he will agree that the judge only having a fine effectively does need reform. And that's why we've seen parenting orders come down. It is important that we're there to support parents, to encourage parents. And I, I was hugely shocked, really, to sit in Highbury Magistrates Court recently with a lot of young people facing quite serious offence offences.
No parent and son.
No parent and son.
15:08
Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
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Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
John Hayes. thank the Secretary of State for his statement and welcome the publication of the White Paper today. Education has a vital role today. Education has a vital role to play in reducing youth offending. We know that there is a strong link between offending of the offences committed by young people and educational disengagement earlier on in their lives. Can I ask the Secretary of State what he is doing to ensure that the government's work in the Department for Education on persistent absence, on exclusions, on Send and on support for care experienced people, young people are properly joined up to ensure that they have a focus on removing disengagement from education and reducing youth offending.
And while I welcome the work that he has asked the Children's Commissioner to do on the quality of education in the youth offending in on in youth offending institutions, we know already that the quality of that education is abysmally poor and that action is urgently needed. So can I ask him to set a time scale on that, so that we can know when we will see the positive change that so urgently needed?
And while I welcome the work that he has asked the Children's Commissioner to do on the quality of education in the youth offending in on in youth offending institutions, we know already that the quality of that education is abysmally poor and that action is urgently needed. So can I ask him to set a time scale on that, so that we can know when we will see the positive change that so urgently needed?
15:09
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
Well, I'm very grateful to my hon. Friend for taking up these issues and championing these issues. issues and championing these issues. I hope she sees an indication of the two Ministers who are working hand in hand and sitting on the hand in hand and sitting on the inter-ministerial group to direct this activity. There is more to do on education in the youth custody context. There's more to do on neurodiversity and its prevalence amongst this cohort of young people, and we have to extend that work into communities and join up better with local child and adolescent child, adolescent mental health services as well.
15:10
Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)
So, Julian Lewis. >> So, Julian Lewis. >> May I ask the Justice Secretary to explain a bit more about the to explain a bit more about the intensive community placements to which he made brief reference. And can I put to him a particularly challenging scenario? Imagine that we have, say, a single parent, a single mum who is very much afraid of her own adolescent child. She is aware that that child has been getting a machetes and other violent accessories through the internet related delivery services.
Let's imagine that she does what she's supposed to do and what we would all think she ought to do, which is report that child. What protection. Given that no offence has yet been committed by the child, will be offered to her against potentially lethal violence from her own adolescent son? Yes.
Let's imagine that she does what she's supposed to do and what we would all think she ought to do, which is report that child. What protection. Given that no offence has yet been committed by the child, will be offered to her against potentially lethal violence from her own adolescent son? Yes.
15:11
Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
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Rt Hon David Lammy MP, The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Tottenham, Labour)
He raises a very serious issue. And it lies at the heart of this, And it lies at the heart of this, because what we are seeing is young people, particularly this prolific people, particularly this prolific cohort, becoming addicted, often addicted, online, often groomed. And these were the knives. And sadly, the terrorism comes in. This is not a standalone policy here. The work of prevent the police social services matters here. We have to do better to join up. And that is the signal we got following the Fulford inquiry into what happened in Southport.
This is an attempt to move absolutely directly in that direction, recognising that that addictive behaviour that now we're seeing with a cohort of young
This is an attempt to move absolutely directly in that direction, recognising that that addictive behaviour that now we're seeing with a cohort of young