Oral Answers to Questions
Justine Greening Excerpts(8 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
I welcome the shadow Ministers to their roles and also, more importantly, welcome my new ministerial colleagues to theirs for our first oral questions session.
We have made it clear that the Office for Students must have student representation, and we will take every opportunity to embed student engagement in the culture and structure of the new organisation.
Kerry McCarthy
I thank the Secretary of State for confirming that. During the summer, I met students from the University of Bristol and the University of the West of England, who are very concerned about rising tuition fees, the scrapping of maintenance grants and, above all, the quality of teaching. Can she assure them that they will be listened to when they express concerns about those issues in connection with the Higher Education and Research Bill?
Justine Greening
In part, the Bill reflects our wish to secure value for money for students, which we are building into law for the first time. Our updating of the higher education regulatory framework is long overdue, and I am delighted that we are taking the opportunity to put the interests of students at the heart of it.
Ben Howlett (Bath) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should beware the law of unintended consequences? Adding students to the board of the Office for Students would put at risk representation and engagement with students throughout the higher education system. Will she assure me, and the student community, that the OFS will put students at the heart of the system?
Justine Greening
I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. I know that he has played an important role on the Public Bill Committee and presented his own proposals. As we have made clear, we do not want to be over-prescriptive. We want to set up the Office for Students and allow it to ensure that students have a voice not just through representation, but through the way in which the office itself works.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
The Higher Education Governance (Scotland) Act 2016, which the Scottish Government introduced in March, has given students a much stronger voice and increased their involvement in key decision making in Scotland’s universities. Does the Secretary of State agree that students deserve to participate more in the higher education sector, and will she look to the example set by Scotland to ensure that they can do so?
Justine Greening
I have no doubt that Scottish colleagues will wish to share the hon. Lady’s experience. As I have said, it is important to ensure that the voices of students are heard ever more clearly, and that is precisely what the Bill is intended to achieve—among other things, including improving choice for students. As was pointed out earlier, we now have a funding system that requires students to pay tuition fees, and it is vital that they obtain value for money.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to her post and congratulate her on becoming Secretary of State for one of the most interesting Departments.
I welcome student representation, but may I warn my right hon. Friend that there is a danger relating to who she decides should be representatives? The National Union of Students is no longer the undivisive organisation that it was once, and a number of universities have already decided that they want nothing to do with it. How will the Secretary of State choose the students who are to be represented on the new body?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend sets out his concerns eloquently. During the Bill’s passage, we have made it clear that we want people on the OFS who have experience of representing, or indeed promoting, the interests of students. As I have said, the key requirement is for us not to be prescriptive, but to allow the new body to become established and then find sensible ways of ensuring—not just through the board itself, but, more importantly, through the way in which it operates—it provides a strong voice for students and represents their interests.
Heidi Allen (South Cambridgeshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
Both the national funding formula reform and the consultation document “Schools that work for everyone” are vital parts of the Government’s ambition for an education system that promotes social mobility and a true meritocracy. As my hon. Friend will know, work is under way on both. Future activity will be strongly driven by the outcomes of the second stage of consultation on the national funding formula and, of course, the Green Paper.
Heidi Allen
Given the mixed views on grammar schools and the huge amount of work that will be required to ensure that no child is left behind, which I certainly fear they might be, will the Secretary of State please explain how grammar schools can possibly be a higher priority than fixing the flawed funding model that has resulted in thousands of children being seriously underfunded for decades in counties such as mine?
Justine Greening
I very much recognise my hon. Friend’s concerns about funding. This was precisely why, shortly before the House went into the summer recess, I set out my determination to get on with the work of bringing forward a national funding formula. We will be responding to the first stage of the consultation shortly and at the same time setting out the next stage of how the formula will work in practice. We also need to challenge ourselves to look at how we can have more good school places, particularly in parts of the country where there are still not enough and particularly for disadvantaged students. We need to get on with both those pieces of work.
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I have made a special journey down here today to ask the Secretary of State a question. There is another group of schools that offers real social mobility and in which the education gap is the most narrowed. More than 98% of these schools are rated good or outstanding, yet they are in the areas of highest deprivation and the majority of their children are eligible for free school meals. They are our much-valued nursery schools, but their funding is putting their ongoing viability at risk. Would it not be better if she focused on their continued attainment, rather than on grammar schools?
Justine Greening
I agree with the hon. Lady that early years provision is a vital part of the education system, which is precisely why we have been consulting on how we can have a sensible approach to its funding, but I disagree with her characterisation that we are cutting funding. That is simply not correct.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
The Secretary of State will surely agree that fairer funding for schools is a top priority, but another priority must be to ensure that we have adequate skills training, especially in the professional and technical sectors. I believe that that should be a key objective of the Green Paper. Will she reassure the House that that is also her priority?
Justine Greening
I made it very clear in my Conservative party conference speech last week that one of our biggest challenges is to ensure that we make the same progress in technical education that we have seen in academic education over recent years. This is vital for the more than 50% of children and young people who do not go on to university, and it will be vital for our employers if we are to have a Brexit Britain that can be successful.
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)
Justine Greening
The reality is that we are providing an additional £55 million for maintained nursery schools for at least two years while we consult the sector. We are looking at children’s centres at the same time.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
Thanks to the casting vote of the Liberal Democrat mayor, North East Lincolnshire Council has approved a motion in support of grammar schools. Given that the coastal communities have poor educational standards, may I invite the Secretary of State to allocate some of her Department’s time to looking at the situation in North East Lincolnshire?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend rightly raises his concerns about ensuring that the young people and children in his area get the best possible start in life. We have published our Green Paper and are consulting on how we can achieve this. There are still too many parts of our country where good school places are not available to children, and that is unacceptable. We should look at all the measures that we can take to change that.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
Is the Secretary of State encouraged by the fact that two thirds of those canvassed on this issue support the Prime Minister’s policy of increasing social mobility among those from poorer backgrounds through the increased provision of grammar schools? Will she assure us that she will not be deterred by siren voices or the barrage of criticism of this policy from those who are ideologically opposed to it even though they had the benefit of a grammar school education themselves?
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman sets out the situation very clearly. He points out that, for children on free school meals in particular, grammars are able to close the attainment gap because the progress that those children make is double that of their better-off classmates. Labour wants to close that opportunity down and we want to level it up—that is the difference.
James Heappey (Wells) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s comment that the national funding formula remains a priority. Schools in Somerset are hanging on for the introduction of that fairer funding model. Will she encourage the Chancellor to look favourably on the plight of rural schools so that they can be properly funded until that funding formula comes into being?
Justine Greening
I assure my hon. Friend that I am very conscious of the particular challenges that rural schools face. In fact, in the original first stage of consultation, the issues of sparsity and funding, and of looking at the percentages of children in schools, were on the table because they do matter. I am well aware of the issue, and we will try to do our best in the second stage of the consultation to ensure that the sorts of challenges that schools face and need funding for are met.
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)
Given the cuts that have already been outlined by Members, can the Secretary of State tell the House whether she has secured new funds from the Treasury to meet the spending commitments outlined in the Green Paper?
Justine Greening
The Green Paper outlined additional funding from the Treasury in relation to setting up new grammars. The hon. Lady will be aware that, at the same time as steadily bearing down on the huge deficit that the previous Labour Government left us, we have managed to protect the real-terms core funding for schools, but that is no thanks to the legacy of financial disaster that was handed over to us.
Angela Rayner
I believe the word that the Secretary of State was looking for was “no”. Perhaps she can tell us how much has been spent on trying to find any facts to support the Government’s policy of segregated schools. Spending public money on policy without any evidential basis is simply wasting it. When she last came to the House, she could not cite a single piece of evidence that the policy would improve social mobility. Has she found any since?
Justine Greening
A lot of what the hon. Lady says is incorrect. She will be well aware that a report by the Sutton Trust clearly set out the improved attainment of free school meal children, in particular in grammar schools. It is totally untenable for her to set out her concerns about grammar schools while resolutely being opposed to any kind of consultation document that looks at how we should reform them. We want to look at how we can reform grammar schools. The education system has changed beyond all recognition over recent years, and it is right that we now look at what role grammars can play in a 21st century education system.
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
David Mackintosh (Northampton South) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
The inclusion of a language in the EBacc increased the numbers of students studying at least one language at GCSE between 2010 and 2015, and the Government’s ambition is that more pupils in mainstream secondary schools enter the EBacc subjects at GCSE.
Mr Speaker
Order. I had thought that the Secretary of State was seeking to group this question with Question 12, from the hon. Member for Banbury, whom we do not wish arbitrarily to exclude from our deliberations.
Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con)
Justine Greening
Absolutely. Indeed, new schools such as Northampton International Academy, which has an academic curriculum with a language specialism and also links to schools in other countries, are the sorts of schools that can really play a key role in ensuring that there are strong options for children on languages.
Victoria Prentis
Thank you, Mr Speaker—I cannot tell you how grateful I am not to be excluded this afternoon. Given the importance of China in the global marketplace today, not least to my constituents who work in Bicester shopping village, does my right hon. Friend agree that our children should be taught Chinese in schools?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is quite right that having more young people learning Chinese is important for the UK’s place in the world; indeed, many employers are looking for more staff who are able to speak Mandarin Chinese. This September, we launched a £10 million Mandarin excellence programme, and hundreds of pupils in England have started intensive lessons in Chinese. By 2020, 5,000 pupils will be working towards a high level of fluency in Mandarin Chinese.
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State agree that rigorous teaching of English grammar to all our pupils, not just the grammar school elite, would not only increase the uptake of foreign languages in schools, but help them to achieve success in those foreign languages?
Justine Greening
I do agree with the hon. Gentleman. He will be aware that, alongside numeracy, a focus on literacy and language has been a core part of how we have improved standards in schools over the past six years.
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab)
One of the most widely spoken languages in the United Kingdom is Punjabi. What steps are the Government taking to encourage students to study that language, particularly in the light of Brexit, after which our trade with India and Pakistan will become even more important?
Justine Greening
We are continuing with our community language GCSEs and A-levels. As the hon. Gentleman points out, it has never been more important for young people coming out of our education system to be successful not only in our own country, but in a global world.
Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
This Government are determined to make this a country that works for everyone, and education is at of the heart of that ambition. I have already had the opportunity to see some of the excellent work being carried out in our classrooms. As my hon. Friend the Minister for Schools has said, there are now 1.4 million more children in good or outstanding schools than there were in 2010. The Department for Education has an expanded role, taking in higher education, further education and skills. That was reflected in my first announcement as Secretary of State of the six opportunity areas where we are going to trial a new approach to boosting attainment and outcomes in social mobility coldspots that have been identified by the Social Mobility Commission. We will work inside schools and outside them, with communities and businesses, to make sure that we can turbo charge those children’s opportunities.
Mr Speaker
The Secretary of State clearly does not wish to be outdone by her hon. Friend the Minister of State. That much is clear.
Alison Thewliss
I welcome the Secretary of State to her place. The reputation of Scotland’s higher education sector is of huge significance at home and in the wider world. What assessment has she made of the damage that could be caused to that reputation by the marketisation of the HE sector opening it up to unknown and disreputable new providers?
Justine Greening
That is not at all what the Higher Education and Research Bill seeks to do. It is about opening up the higher education sector, so that we have the next wave of institutions that can provide fantastic degrees, and about making sure that there is teaching excellence. It is a strong Bill that will move the sector forward for the first time in 25 years.
Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
Justine Greening
The current rule is generally inoperative for many free schools when they begin, because they are not over-subscribed, and it only kicks in if they are. We are proposing to put in place much stronger, more effective controls to ensure that faith schools that are opening will be community schools. I would very much encourage the hon. Gentleman to read the consultation document, which sets out proposals, including that those schools should demonstrate clear parental demand from parents of other faiths or no faith and that they should twin with primary schools and other schools.
Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con)
Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State has spoken about social mobility. Where is the evidence, from this country or other parts of the world, that bringing back selection at 11 will increase social mobility? I think the evidence shows the opposite. May I urge her once again to think again about this plan to extend grammar schools and instead work together to raise standards for all children in all our schools?
Justine Greening
Of course, the two objectives are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, our school reforms will continue, and they have already seen the best part of 1.5 million children now in good or outstanding schools who were not in 2010. We see attainment driven through grammar schools in places such as Northern Ireland. It is just wrong simply to set on one side schools that are closing the attainment gap for children on free school meals and not look at how we can make that option available to more parents and more children.
Several hon. Members rose—
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
Today is World Mental Health Day. The Government acknowledge there has been an increase in the number of young people affected by anxiety, depression and other mental health conditions, yet so much more could and should be done to prevent them. When will the Secretary of State bring forward statutory compulsory and high-quality personal, social, health and economic education in every single school, so that we can equip the next generation with the skills and confidence to get help early on?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady is right to raise the issue of mental health. In September, we announced a package to tackle bullying in schools, which we know is one of the drivers of mental health issues. She is right to raise the broader issue. We are looking at how we continue to ensure that PSHE works effectively in schools, and we are working with the NHS.
Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that our young people need a mixture of routes by which they can go on to succeed, and that that will continue to underpin Government policy moving forward?
Justine Greening
Yes, I very strongly agree with my hon. Friend. As I said earlier, we are reforming the academic route for many of our young people. However, for the majority who are more interested in a technical route in education post-16, it is vital that we now bring together different policy areas—apprenticeships, university technical colleges and the work of further education colleges up and down the country—to ensure they deliver for them.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
The Minister was just attacked for removing the cap on faith schools. The implication was that they do not promote cohesion. Is it not a nonsense to suggest that our wonderful Anglican and Catholic schools are not broad-based and do not promote cohesion? Above all, they have good academic standards. The unacknowledged point of the cap was to stop 100% Muslim schools. It was simply not effective and was therefore useless, so the Minister was right to do away with it.
Justine Greening
I agree with my hon. Friend—he is right. We should reflect on the fact that about a third of our schools are faith schools. Many of our children will have gone to those schools. They have an ethos and a level of academic attainment that we are trying to achieve more broadly across the whole system.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)
I commend the Secretary of State for announcing, or perhaps forcing, the U-turn on the nasty policy of employers naming foreign employees. Will she now give us another U-turn and announce that schools do not need to ask parents to provide birth certificates, thus potentially turning schools into immigration offices?
Justine Greening
This is about making sure we have the right data and evidence to develop strong policy. That is a sensible approach, but it is important we respond to the concerns of schools that see additional numbers of pupils related to migration. We need to have a better sense of the stresses and strains, so that we can target resourcing effectively.
Dr Tania Mathias (Twickenham) (Con)
True childcare costs in Twickenham are double the current Government funding formula. Will the Minister meet me to share how we can avert a crisis and ensure that every three and four-year-old in Twickenham will be able to get 30 hours of free childcare?
Schools that work for Everyone
Justine Greening Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the Government’s consultation published today, ‘Schools that work for everyone’, copies of which I have placed in the Libraries of both Houses.
As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, this Government are putting the interests of ordinary working-class people first. We want this country to be a truly meritocratic country, where what matters most is a person’s individual talent and their capacity for hard work, so we need to build a schools system that works for everyone, not just for the privileged few. The various proposals set out today in this consultation document all drive towards one simple goal: increasing the number of good school places for all children.
Over the past six years we have made great strides forward, with more than 1.4 million more children in good or outstanding schools than in 2010. The flagship academies programme has unlocked the potential in our schools. This Government are committed to helping all schools enjoy academy status freedoms and school-led system improvement through multi-academy trusts. The reforms carried out by my right hon. Friends the Members for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) and for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) have had a transformational effect on education in our country. Now we need to build on the “Educational Excellence Everywhere” White Paper—our dedication to good teachers in every school, world-class qualifications and reforming school funding—and put an end to the underperformance that has blighted too many children’s education and that still exists in pockets throughout our country.
We need radically to expand the number of good school places available to all families, not just to those who can afford to move into the catchment areas of the best state schools, those who can afford to pay for private education, or those belonging to certain faiths. We need to give all schools with a strong track record, experience and valuable expertise the incentives to expand their offer to enable even more pupils to go there, driving up standards and giving parents greater choice and control. We have sought to do this already through, for example, university technical colleges and specialist subject schools.
The reality is that demand for school places only continues to grow, but too many children still do not have access to a good or outstanding school. In some areas as many as 50% of children do not have one locally. In fact, 1.25 million children attend schools that are not good or outstanding, in spite of all the progress that has been made. That is unacceptable.
The Government make sure that schools have the resources to help the children most in need—for example, through the pupil premium—and of course that will continue, but the Prime Minister is right when she says that disadvantage can often be hidden in this country. It is not just about those children who receive free school meals; we want to come up with a broader definition and look at ordinary working-class families just managing to get by, who are too often forgotten.
This consultation deliberately asks big, open questions about the future of education in this country. The plans set out in “Schools that work for everyone” focus on how we can unlock four existing parts of the educational community so that they can have a bigger impact for all children.
The first part is the independent schools that give wealthier parents the option of an outstanding education for their children, often sending a high proportion to the best universities and guaranteeing access to the best career outcomes. Many of these schools already make a contribution to the state sector—some even sponsor or run state schools. While we recognise that work, we want independent schools to do more, so we want stronger, more demanding public benefit tests for independent schools to retain the benefits associated with charitable status. We want independent schools to offer more places to those less able to afford them, and to sponsor or set up schools in the state sector. For smaller schools we will, of course, look at an proportionate approach, and we are seeking views on how they can make their facilities available to state schools and share their teaching expertise.
The second part is our world-class universities. They need funding, of course, in order to maintain that status, and under this Government’s approach to access agreements, we have made sure that we have seen steady investment, while at the same time making sure that university is not out of reach for disadvantaged people. We want the huge talent base in our universities to do more to widen participation and to help more children to reach their full potential. We therefore want universities to open or sponsor schools in exchange for the right to raise their fees. This will ensure that they are not just pulling in the most qualified applicants—some of whom might have had an educational head start—but playing a bigger role in increasing the numbers of students with the GCSEs and the A-level grades that open doors to degree courses in the first place.
Thirdly, when we talk about selection in this country, we have to acknowledge that we have selection by house price already—for those who are able to buy a house in the catchment areas of the best schools. [Interruption.]
Justine Greening
We know that selective schools are in high demand, as are specialist art, music and sports schools. Selective schools are good for pupils, particularly the most disadvantaged ones who attend them, yet for most children the chance to attend a selective school simply does not exist, so we want to look again at selective schools and how they can open up excellent places to more children, particularly the most disadvantaged. We will therefore look at how we can relax the rules on expanding selective schools and allow new ones to open and non-selective schools to become selective where there is a demand. At the same time, we have to challenge ourselves, and selective schools, to raise attainment much more broadly.
It is really important that I am clear about how we ensure that all schools improve. We do not want to see a return to the old binary system of good schools and bad schools. Every child deserves a place in a great—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The Secretary of State must be heard. Everybody, I think, on both sides of the House knows that, when ministerial statements are delivered, I, almost without exception, allow everyone who wants to contribute the chance to do so, and, believe me, today will be no exception—I am very sensitive to the differences of opinion in the House. Everyone will have a chance to question the Secretary of State, but meanwhile she should and must be heard with courtesy.
Justine Greening
Every child deserves a place in a great school; it is not just what they deserve, it is what our country deserves. What is clear is that selection should be part of the debate about how we make sure that the right number of good places exist. Selective schools will be expected to guarantee places for children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and, far from tainting the standards of education in schools around them, we will explore ways for selective schools to share their expertise. We want them to raise standards in every part of the schools system—for example, by opening excellent feeder primary schools or by sponsoring local non-selective schools.
Finally, let me turn to faith schools. I am sure that many colleagues will have children who go to high-quality faith schools. The current rules to promote inclusion mean that when new faith free schools are oversubscribed, they have to limit the number of pupils they admit on the basis of faith to 50%. The reality is that this has not worked to combat segregation, and indeed also acts as a barrier to some faiths in opening new schools. We want to remove that barrier so that new places can be created, but at the same time consult on more effective ways to ensure that all new faith free schools are truly inclusive. We will look at new requirements on proposers of free schools to demonstrate that they are attracting applications from other faiths, and to establish twinning arrangements with schools not of their faith, and consider sponsoring underperforming non-faith schools and bringing members of other faiths, and none, into their governing bodies.
The Government want to build on the progress made over the past six years and make the schools system truly fit for purpose in the 21st century. The “Schools that work for everyone” consultation is about engaging with as many views as possible so that we can design policies that make the most of the expertise that we already have, and widen access to good and outstanding school places for all. Government Members believe in building a true meritocracy. We think that every child deserves a school place that will best serve their individual talents, and not to be limited by where they live or by how much their parents earn. There is so much potential in our country, and that talent base needs us to ask the big questions, leaving no stone unturned so that we can build a schools system that truly works for everyone. I commend this statement to the House.
Angela Rayner
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister promised on the steps of No. 10 to govern for the many and not the privileged few, and to be led by the evidence when making decisions, yet now we have a policy that is aimed at not just serving the privileged few, but entrenching that advantage over the rest of society. This is a disgraceful attack on opportunity and inclusion, and we will oppose it. I appeal to every single Member in this House to oppose it, too.
Justine Greening
I reiterate that this is the beginning of a consultation that sets out a debate that we need to have in our education system if we are going to make sure that we deliver on our manifesto commitment, which is to have an excellent school place available for every single child in our country. We set out very clearly that that would include more places at grammar schools.
The hon. Lady had nothing to say about how we can make independent schools play a stronger role in raising standards or how universities can play a stronger role in raising attainment. In spite of all the challenges and issues that she raises from a Labour perspective, it is worth pointing out that the leader of the Labour party, as I understand it, wants to scrap existing grammars. Is that correct? I cannot see a flicker of recognition of that policy from the Leader of the Opposition; perhaps he has been distracted over recent weeks.
In spite of all the challenges and issues that the Labour party raises over grammars, and in spite of the fact that the party was in power for 13 years, it took no steps when in government to ensure that grammars played a stronger role in raising attainment in their broader communities. What did we actually see under Labour in government? It was not education, education, education; it was grade inflation; children leaving school without even the most basic skills of reading, writing and adding up; a university system that had a cap on student numbers and aspiration; and youth unemployment that went up by the best part of 50%. We need no lectures from the Labour party on how to deliver opportunity for our young people.
If we are going to ensure that ours is a country where everybody can do their best, wherever they start, we have to be prepared at least to have a debate about how we will make that happen. It seems to me that the only distraction in this Chamber for the Labour party is, yet again, its own leadership contest. In the meantime, the ideas and the initiative to drive opportunity across Britain will come from Conservative Members.
Mr Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Con)
I warmly welcome the motives behind my right hon. Friend’s statement, which appeared to be to try to restore some of the best of the 1944 Butler Act—with its amazing opportunities for bright working-class children—while avoiding some of its serious downsides, such as the great damage that it did and the poor alternatives that it offered to the majority of pupils who did not pass the exam. Does she accept that the devil lies in the detail? Does she accept that, as she develops the policy that she is setting out for consultation today, it will be tested by how far she can, in specific ways, ensure that this change does not damage the opportunities for pupils in other schools and does not distract priority from raising the standards of all schools for all pupils, which has been the objective of this Government?
May I also ask my right hon. Friend to reconsider pretty fundamentally the announcement she has made about faith schools? We need to live in a society where we reduce barriers and improve contacts and integration between people of all faiths. If the system has been imperfect, we need to know why it has not worked. It may be right to modify it, but will not simply removing the cap altogether lead us into considerable danger?
Justine Greening
My right hon. and learned Friend went back some time to talk about the 1944 Butler Act. I do not personally recall it, having not been born at the time. The point is that the education system in our country is in a radically different position from when we effectively had a binary system, which that Act did not intend, of secondary moderns and grammars. Our education system has been transformed out of all recognition. This proposal is about improving choice for parents, wherever they are in the country; it is about building capacity in our school system; and it is about continuing with the reforms that have already seen 1.4 million more children get into good or outstanding schools. Those reforms are absolutely critical, alongside this work, to making sure that we improve opportunity.
On faith schools, let me explain the situation more succinctly. The existing 50% rule was put in place with the best of intentions, and it kicks in when new faith schools are oversubscribed. The issue is that that very rarely happens, so in spite of the fact that it was designed with the best of motives, the rule does not operate effectively. Some new faith schools are overwhelmingly comprised of children with one faith, because the school did not have to go and seek more children of other faiths and no faith. The consultation document therefore sets out a number of different proposals. For example, proposed new faith schools would have to demonstrate more clearly that there was a broader community desire for places at that new school, not just from parents of that faith but from parents of no faith and other faiths.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
The Secretary of State has expressed concern that the opponents of this policy have nothing to say. I can reassure her that I have plenty to say, but, unfortunately, I have only two minutes in which to say it.
For any Government to be truly progressive, their education system must do all it can to tackle inequality. Only in this way can our young people reach their true potential. Only in this way can we close the attainment gap, which the First Minister has made the mission of her SNP Government in Scotland. There can be no doubt that grammar schools encourage educational inequality. That is why there will be no grammar schools in Scotland. Instead, the SNP Government are doing everything possible to ensure that all children have access to the same opportunities, no matter their background. If the mistake of reintroducing grammar schools in England has any financial impact on Scotland, we in the SNP will fight tooth and nail in our opposition to this policy.
Instead of this backward step, the Government should be working to close the attainment gap. The SNP Government in Scotland are committing an additional—targeted—£750 million to close this gap, with a new, fair and transparent funding formula for schools that will ensure additional resources go where they are needed. Does the Secretary of State not think that she could learn something from this strategy? Will she explain how this Government can trumpet their credentials of so-called social mobility when there is clear evidence that such selective admissions policies in schools are not to the benefit of all children? This Government say they believe in a meritocratic society, so can she explain how grammar schools promote that when they fly in the face of such an ideal, creating social divisions between children at a very young age?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady sets out the SNP’s approach to education, but it does not bear comparison with the dramatic improvements in our English education system during the past six years, which we absolutely aim to continue to drive forward. We have seen a stronger focus on school leadership and teaching standards. We have seen a more rigorous curriculum that truly enables our children to have the knowledge and skills they need to be successful. Critically, we have seen schools working far more closely together in order, collectively, to raise attainment standards across the board. I am saying today that I want some parts of our education system that have played less of a role in doing so than I think they can to step up to the plate and to do much more.
The hon. Lady asked about attainment. The reality is that disadvantaged children who get into grammar school come on in leaps and bounds. In fact, the attainment gap between them and better advantaged cohorts has dramatically closed by the time they leave school. Fundamentally, the difference between us and the opposition parties is that we believe that that is a good thing, and that we should therefore look at how to make such an opportunity available to more children. The opposition parties believe we should have a levelling down. That is the difference, and that is why we do not accept their approach.
Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con)
May I congratulate the Secretary of State on the clear moral purpose that runs through every word of her statement? Her commitment to ensuring that every child in this country receives a high-quality education and that we narrow the attainment gap between rich and poor is the driving mission she has brought to the role of Education Secretary, and I for one am delighted to see her at the Dispatch Box.
In particular, the Secretary of State is absolutely right to say that two of the highest performing education sectors in this country—independent schools and universities—still have not done enough to help disadvantaged children to do more. Do not the examples of the Harris Westminster free school, supported by a great independent school, and King’s maths school, supported by a great university, show that institutions that select at the age of 16 can ensure that children from disadvantaged backgrounds can do more? Will she reassure the House that, in the face of the opposition to all reform and all debate by the dogmatists on the Opposition side of the House, she will be driven entirely by data and what works, and that she will press ahead with the cause of reform?
Justine Greening
I can assure my right hon. Friend of that, and I thank him for his comments. He was a Secretary of State who was willing to press on with difficult decisions to get the best outcome for Britain’s children, and he was absolutely right to do so. Failure comes from failing to address the difficult questions that we need to ask ourselves to improve England’s education system. We are prepared to address those questions, and we are putting our proposals out in a consultation document, which is effectively a Green Paper.
As my right hon. Friend says, innovation is happening across the system. We can look at the maths school that King’s College London has set up, or at the Harris Westminster college, or further afield at the work of the University of Brighton and the University of Exeter, which are truly showing how they can work with their local school system and more broadly to raise attainment. We should learn from them and expand the impact of universities, not contract it.
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Let us have the debate, but let us have it based on evidence. What evidence does the Secretary of State have that the reintroduction of selection would work? All the evidence that I can find shows that it would not. Areas that have selection have a wider attainment gap than those that do not, disadvantaged children do not get into grammar schools and poorer kids do worse. In contrast, the highest-performing areas, where the gap has closed dramatically, particularly under the Labour Government, are comprehensive areas. Perhaps the Secretary of State would do better focusing her efforts on how we can spread the good practice of places such as London rather than on importing the much poorer practice of somewhere such as Kent.
Justine Greening
It would be helpful if the Labour Front Benchers, and maybe individual Labour MPs, set out exactly where they stand on removing existing grammars. That is not clear to me, but as I understand it, that is the Labour party’s proposal. From the hon. Lady’s comments, perhaps we can assume that she wants to end all existing selection. If she is not prepared to make that argument, it is hard for her to argue against the status quo while simultaneously saying that we are wrong to consider reforming it. I think that is her position.
The reality is that many grammar schools, such as Bournemouth school, are doing important work to prioritise getting children on the pupil premium into grammar schools. We know from evidence from the Sutton Trust that when children on free school meals get into grammars, they do disproportionately well. The same evidence also showed that there was no discernible lessening of attainment among children outside the grammar system.
Of course, we are not in a binary system now. Our schools have overwhelmingly improved over the past six years, and many more schools of all kinds are now good or outstanding. The sense that children not in a grammar are somehow consigned to an education system that is failing them is simply wrong, but in some schools in some parts of the country, children do not have access to a good school place. We should not accept that. Our proposals today and the debate that we are starting are aimed at looking at how we can tackle it, and they sit alongside a much broader series of policy reforms. We will push on and change those circumstances, unlike the Labour party, which does not even seem to want to have a debate in the first place.
Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)
I welcome what my right hon. Friend has said today about having greater collaboration between universities, independent schools and schools in the state system. I also agree with her about faith schools, which need to be looked at.
Over the past six years, the Conservative party has consistently challenged the soft bigotry of low expectations—the idea that an academic education is not available to all. My right hon. Friend is right that we have great schools and great teachers, but we do not have them everywhere. Will she explain, now or in the course of the consultation, how the Green Paper proposals on selective education will benefit pupils in areas where expectations are still too low and results are too poor? When will she announce the first of the “achieving excellence” areas?
Justine Greening
My right hon. Friend is right to point out that too often, in the past, Governments have not had high enough expectations for children growing up in more disadvantaged parts of our country. That is totally unacceptable. Talented children are growing up all over our country and we should make sure that they have an education system that can enable them to make the most of their talents. She is also right that if we want new grammars to open we have to work with local communities. I would very much like some of the most disadvantaged communities to have the chance now to have a grammar. At the moment there is simply not that opportunity for them, even if local parents want it. We know that 20% of children at grammar schools come from outside the immediate catchment area, which clearly suggests that parents in those broader areas also want the choice of a grammar for their children.
Finally, my right hon. Friend set out points in the White Paper that I thought were quite right. The achieving excellence areas are about looking systematically at places where children are systematically let down and do not have access to good school places, to see what it will take—not just inside schools but outside—to change that over time. I assure her absolutely that all that work will continue, and pay tribute to her for that White Paper, which put in place the building bricks for what I hope will be a successful approach.
Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op)
It is simply not true to say that the Opposition are in favour of levelling down. Having schools that work for everyone and for all families is exactly what we are in favour of. I want to press the Secretary of State on the question of evidence. Where is the evidence that any of the improvement we have seen in the past 15 to 20 years has come as a result of selection? In particular, can she name a school system elsewhere in the world that succeeds on the basis of selection at 11?
Justine Greening
Our proposals are clear on the fact that we do not want a test at 11 to be the principal way that children get into grammars. We want much more flexibility in the grammar system. This is about having a 21st-century education system and a 21st-century approach on grammars. It is wrong to say that we should just freeze grammars in time, and never come back to look at how they can work more effectively. The test is surely the fact that 99% of grammars are judged good or outstanding by Ofsted. Those schools have outstanding leadership and teachers, and a strong, stretching and rigorous curriculum. They deliver for children of lower prior attainment and disadvantaged children, but also stretch those of better attainment. That is why they are rated good or outstanding by Ofsted. It would be wrong not to look at how we can pull those features into the broader school system. Many of our reforms have been doing that. Where it is the choice and there is the demand we should be enabling more grammars to open.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
Back in 1944, three types of school were proposed—grammars, secondary moderns and technical schools—but by 1959 only 2% of any year group could expect to get to a technical school. The problem is sometimes in delivery and the mechanism for implementation. What plans does the Secretary of State have to make sure that the changes in the Green Paper will be implemented in such a way that we reach every community and every child, and can be sure that we are giving every child the best possible opportunity, either in a grammar school or some other, different type of school? The mechanism—brokering it and checking that it is working—will count for a lot with this policy.
Justine Greening
I very much pay tribute to all my hon. Friend’s work as Chair of the Education Committee. This is about building capacity; fundamentally, it is about having more good school places for children around Britain. The test of its success will be a continued improvement in attainment—very much following on from what my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) has said—focusing in particular on those children who do not get as far as they should and have not been able to enjoy and benefit from the broader reforms that so many more children are now benefiting from.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Let me tell the Secretary of State that this country has made steady progress on education over the years, under all parties. There has been real improvement in our education system; is she aware that sending a message that that is a history of failure is not very encouraging to teachers and the people who deliver education? I beg her not to start what we have already seen in the Chamber, namely a bitter turf war about comprehensives against grammars. If she likes grammar schools, she should provide the evidence. Provide what is best for our students and our kids in this country, but do not start an ideological turf war that will be very damaging to our country.
Justine Greening
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. We need to open up a measured debate that is based on evidence on what it will take to improve our school system, and particularly on what it will take to enable those who do not have access to a good school place to have one. We believe that selection can play a role, and that we should look at how that can be done more effectively.
The hon. Gentleman was at the urgent question on Thursday. I recognise how emotive the issue is on both sides of the House—it is emotive because it matters for all of our children. The wrong thing to do would be simply to see the concerns that Labour Members express and put them in a box, unprepared to look at how we can make grammars work more effectively for disadvantaged children. We should recognise that every child is different. Those who are academic need schools that can help them stretch themselves.
Mrs Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
My anxiety with some of the proposals is this: the Secretary of State rightly focuses on areas of economic and educational disadvantage, but without any kind of local catchment area how can we guarantee that new selective schools will benefit the communities in which they are situated?
Justine Greening
We are setting out a number of conditions that new grammars would have to meet for them to be able to open in the first place. Part of that would be working with local communities and demonstrating local demand. It could also involve setting up a non-selective school or sponsoring one that is already there, or setting up or sponsoring a primary school in a more low-income area that feeds the grammar school, so that it absolutely reaches into some of those communities that we want to benefit most from the good or outstanding grammars that are established. I encourage my right hon. Friend to look at the consultation document, which opens a lot of questions about how we can do that effectively. I will no doubt be interested in her response.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
I have listened to the Secretary of State carefully and am quite sorry for her in a way, because I am sure this policy is not directly hers. Could she tell us confidentially whether she was as surprised as hon. Members when we found out the chaotic nature of future Government policy, and when she was informed of it by Government Spads in Downing Street?
Justine Greening
On behalf of children in Britain, that was a totally pointless question. In fact, I will not bother answering it.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)
I do not want any child to have to go to the sort of school I went to in the last five years of my secondary education. Hartland comprehensive was many times more like a borstal than a school. Unfortunately, there are still too many comprehensives like that in our country but—it is a big “but”—schools in my constituency have done so well, notably George Spencer, which has become an outstanding academy because of the academy programme. There is no desire in my constituency for us to have selection. Will the Secretary of State therefore assure me and my constituents that the academy programme, which is delivering, will still be supported by the Government?
Justine Greening
Yes, of course I will. The proposal is about providing more choice but, as my right hon. Friend sets out, in many parts of the country we have seen academies transform prospects. Her local community might be happy with those existing schools and want to continue to see them get better.
Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)
When discussing education with parents and teachers, the issues that come up time and again are the need for more primary places, teacher workload and recruitment, and the north-south funding gap. Not one person has ever raised new grammars with me. Where is the evidence that the continued obsession with structures will resolve the real issues facing our education system?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady is right to highlight the need for more primary places and we have put billions of pounds into ensuring them. Part of the challenge is that that demographic bulge is gradually passing into our secondary school system, and we need to ensure that it has the number of places our children we need. We need to ensure that they are good places, which is why we want to open up the debate on selection and ending the ban on grammars. As she says, this is not to say that we do not need carefully to push on with the rest of the agenda in education. She mentioned teacher recruitment and ensuring that education funding is fair around the country. I will continue to focus on all those things.
Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to greater freedom for faith schools, including Yavneh in my constituency, which is the best performing comprehensive in the entire country. It forms part of a diverse mix in Hertsmere that includes part-selective schools. Does she agree that it is that diversity that is driving up standards, and is she committed to maintaining that diversity?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend sets out the case very well. Parents have more and better choices in his local community. That is important and part of how we see standards rising. We are committed to that continuing.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
I, too, listened very carefully to the words of the Secretary of State and she did say that we do not want to see a test at 11 for access to grammars. Is it her intention to abolish the 11-plus for existing grammar schools? If not, why not?
Justine Greening
The point I was making to the hon. Gentleman was that many people feel there is a cliff edge in terms of entry into grammars, as it stands, at age 11. We are consulting on children having the chance to go to a local grammar, perhaps at an older age. Indeed, if they are particularly capable at one or two subjects, they could perhaps go to a grammar to study them. I am sure he will read the consultation document with interest.
Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that by lifting the statutory bar we are not returning to the two-tier system of the 1950s? Our education system has moved on. We have the choice of university technical colleges, free schools and academies, as well as apprenticeships. When striving for educational excellence, we must continue to look at all the best forms of education for our children.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is quite right. We have moved from a system where there was a one-size-fits-all approach to schools for children. We now have a system where there is so much more diversity and choice. We think it is wrong to have one kind of school within the system that is unable to respond to parent demand—that is the need for more grammars. We want to open up the debate and look at what we can do to enable parents around the country to have more of a choice.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
When it comes to schools that work for everyone, the Secretary of State says she wants views from everywhere. She will be aware that the exam results from schools in Northern Ireland for GCSE were some of the best in the United Kingdom. Has she had the opportunity to strategise those results for the benefit of the UK mainland?
Justine Greening
I know the system of grammars in Northern Ireland is one that people would point to and say that, on average, attainment has increased. During the urgent question last week, I was invited to Northern Ireland to look for myself. I am sure I will be able to visit Northern Ireland shortly.
Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s Green Paper on the wider aspects of education. I have to say that I have severe reservations about introducing more grammar schools. I was at a grammar school 50 years ago. I have often wondered where I would be if I had failed the 11-plus. I certainly would not be here today. I know the education system has moved on, but I have to say it is a question not of introducing more grammar schools—if people want grammar schools, that is fine—but what is happening in the main part of the system. The main question we have to deal with is not just about access to schools; it is about the poverty of many parents and dysfunctional families. I am sure my right hon. Friend will be looking at that. Could she perhaps give me some reassurance that that is going to be done?
Justine Greening
Very much so. As I just replied to my right hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), looking at specific areas where there is a persistent and long-term lack of educational attainment and a gap in good school places absolutely has to sit alongside this consultation document. The rest of the Government reforms are now well under way and have delivered so much for children in Britain. They absolutely need to continue.
Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State’s statement is deeply divisive. Will she tell us the difference between the selection criteria for a grammar school and for a free school? What evidence base is available to her for not prioritising the needs of the young people who are not going to be selected?
Justine Greening
I would encourage the right hon. Gentleman to look at the Green Paper consultation document that we have published today. It not only talks about how we think grammars and selection can play a stronger role, particularly for improving the prospects for disadvantaged children who are academically able, but sets out our expectation that grammars can do a lot more to raise attainment more broadly in their local communities. As I said to the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner), the challenge is that we have not engaged much in the reform of grammars before. Now is the time to ask them to do more, but in return we should also be prepared to enable them to open up in other parts of the country.
Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con)
I have no ideological hang-up about letting the brightest children do well, but it is crucial to let the poorest come through to do so. I welcome this as the beginning of a debate and as one method by which we can increase the diversity of the school system. I particularly welcome my right hon. Friend’s mention of the role that universities can play. We can see the results of poor social mobility in my Norwich constituency, but universities, as well as existing teachers, are addressing the problem hard and should be encouraged in doing so.
Justine Greening
I think Norwich provides an excellent example of a place where we could see attainments raised by the University of East Anglia doing more in local communities. I would like to pay tribute to the work my hon. Friend is doing locally with her young people to help to ensure that that happens. We are at the beginning of understanding how universities can work effectively further back in the education system. The more we can work out how to do that successfully, the more we will see how it can dramatically improve children’s prospects so that they can reach the levels of educational attainment that make going to university become an option.
Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)
If the Government were serious about social mobility, they would focus on the early years and on technical and vocational provision. The one thing I welcome is the Secretary of State’s acceptance of the Labour party’s 2015 manifesto commitment on independent schools. Of course they should be doing more to earn their charitable status. I think we are entering into a consensus view on that. Rather than going down the blind alley of the Charitable Commission, I urge the Secretary of State to amend the Local Government Act 1988 so that the business rate relief of private schools is dependent on a hard partnership, as determined by the independent schools inspectorate. It remains a scandal that our sixth-form colleges are paying VAT and private schools have business rate relief. That has to end.
Justine Greening
As I understood the hon. Gentleman’s policy, it was simply to scrap charitable status, but what we want to do is to make sure that our independent schools actually earn that charitable status and truly deliver more public benefit taps than some are currently doing. It is fair to say, however, that the overwhelming number of independent schools already do much in their local communities.
William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)
As a comprehensive schoolboy, may I commend my right hon. Friend for her bold new departure? Will she ensure, however, that at all times the language used by the Government focuses on people’s aptitudes rather than solely on their academic ability? I believe that, in that way, there are no losers; instead, all talents are championed and pupils are fulfilled.
Justine Greening
As a comprehensive schoolgirl, I think that is an excellent point. I can assure my hon. Friend that this is about making sure that we have diversity and choice in our schools system so that, whatever kinds of talents children have, they can find a school that will truly enable them to be developed successfully.
Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)
The attainment gap between poor and rich children is unacceptable. It holds them and our country back. The Secretary of State is simply wrong to say that expanding grammar schools will help the most disadvantaged children. They are less likely to get into grammar schools and more likely to fall further behind better-off children than in areas without selective schools. Will the Secretary of State focus instead on what evidence shows makes the biggest difference to disadvantaged children—high-quality early years services, getting the best heads and teachers in the schools that need the most and relentlessly driving up standards in academic and vocational qualifications?
Justine Greening
We are doing all those things, and, in fact, our proposals are intended to ensure that grammars do take more disadvantaged children. Labour had 13 years to think about this, and failed to do so.
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)
The Secretary of State will be aware that the community that I represent in Bournemouth and Poole already has access to high-quality local grammar schools, but may I make her aware of a change in admission policy that will begin in 2018 at Bournemouth School, which is headed by Dr Dorian Lewis? We are going to introduce a geographic limit prioritising Bournemouth pupils, and we are going to prioritise looked-after and formerly looked-after children and those receiving free school meals. Critically, we are going to combine those measures with an ambitious programme of outreach to primary schools to raise the aspiration of pupils and their parents to send their children to grammar schools.
Does the Secretary of State agree that those ambitious measures are entirely in line with the Prime Minister’s excellent new policy, and will she undertake either to come to Bournemouth School and see for herself what it is doing or to meet Dr Dorian Lewis if we bring him here to London?
Justine Greening
I should be happy to meet my hon. Friend’s local head teacher. What he has described is exactly what we want to see replicated across grammar schools in our country, and is relevant to the conditions that we will set for existing grammars to expand and new grammars to open. We want to ensure that they are engines for social mobility
Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab)
I hope that we will have a debate about this, because it is important. None of us should be satisfied about the fact that too many of our children are not getting the best out of—what is it these days? Before long, it will be nearly 18 years of compulsory education.
When I last spoke in the Chamber, in a debate led by my former colleague Jo Cox, we talked about the lack of educational attainment in Yorkshire and Humberside. Three facts emerged from that debate: first, that so many of our children were 18 months behind their peers at the age of three; secondly, that in Doncaster and other areas outside our cities, we could not attract the best teachers for love nor money; and, thirdly, that the choice to be made by 14-year-olds was not good enough for those who wanted to follow a more vocational route. May I ask the Secretary of State please not to abandon issues that I feel are of greater importance to achieving the outcomes that she wants than a debate on grammar schools that could be divisive?
Justine Greening
I assure the right hon. Lady that I will never abandon the agenda of seeing what we can do to lift areas that are struggling in terms of educational attainment. I grew up in Rotherham, I went through the state school system there, and I am personally committed to ensuring that that area does better in the future than it has in the past. Having a role in which I can help to build the education system that enabled me to be successful presents an opportunity that I will make the most of.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
If the Secretary of State is indeed going to search for evidence, will she try to find out why the OECD has consistently said that educational outcomes in England are far better than they are in Wales, where we have had 17 years of Labour government?
Justine Greening
It is almost certainly because the Labour Government in Wales have failed to learn from the reforms that we have made here in the United Kingdom. It is interesting to note that many parents want to take advantage of the features of grammar schools that often make them successful, such as excellent teachers and outstanding leadership, a stretching, rigorous academic curriculum, excellent extra-curricular activities, and discipline. Those are the things that parents want throughout the school system, and our reforms have largely embedded them throughout the system, which is why standards are rising.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
I am proud to represent a town that is ram-packed with what the Secretary of State calls “ordinary working-class people”. [Interruption.] I am using the Secretary of State’s words. It is also a town that has grammar schools. People there are frustrated by the fact that their kids cannot get into local grammar schools because other people with much more resources are able to drive miles from west London and get their children into grammar schools on the basis of the 11-plus.
I am beginning to be unsure about what the Secretary of State means by a grammar school. When I talk to the heads of grammar schools, they say that they cannot devise an admission test that is tutor-proof. The point is that my constituents who cannot afford tutors are not getting places in the grammar schools, and therefore grammar schools do not serve, as her statement implies, those, in her words, “ordinary working-class people.” Unfortunately, they serve those people who can afford to tutor their kids.
Justine Greening
In that case, all the more reason for us to bring forward the reforms announced today. It is nonsensical to make an argument in the way the right hon. Lady has just done and then say we should do nothing about it.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The whole focus of the debate so far has been on the question of admissions, but what makes for a good school is not how the pupils have been admitted, but the quality of the leadership. How will the Secretary of State focus the debate and her proposals on how we secure more outstanding headteachers?
Justine Greening
As we have seen in many parts of the country, including London, what actually made the difference was schools working together, having outstanding headteachers going into what were underperforming schools, turning them around and then working with other schools in neighbouring areas to ensure that best practice was disseminated. Grammars need to play their role in doing that, hence these proposals.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
The Secretary of State mentioned the Sutton Trust and it points out that 18% of pupils are on free school meals but only 3% of grammar school pupils are, so the fact that that tiny group does well does not support her policy, as she has claimed. Opening new grammar schools inevitably means creating new secondary modern schools, however it is dressed up. How can that possibly be a good idea?
Justine Greening
Again, the right hon. Gentleman was part of the Government that had 13 years to tackle the issue he has just set out and did nothing. The reality is we should be enabling parents to have more choice, including having selection and grammars if they want them, but we should also be challenging grammars to do more on reaching out to disadvantaged children. As we have heard, in Bournemouth and other parts of the country that is already happening. We should be seeing more of that, not simply trying to avoid the debate all together.
Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con)
I am very grateful for my right hon. Friend’s statement, which is an encouraging step in the right direction. Does she share my anxiety and frustration at the fact that so many of the objectors to this scheme are themselves the products of selective education? The French have a saying: “Le patron mange ici”, or the patron of the establishment—usually a restaurant—eats here, and is it not disappointing to see so many people who are the products of selective education say, “It’s alright for us, but it’s not alright for them”?
Justine Greening
I tend to agree with my hon. Friend, and I would add that on the one hand there is a vehement dislike of the status quo while on the other hand apparently an objection to bringing forward any reforms to change it.
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
Let us deal with this nonsense that if we are not in favour of the Secretary of State’s reform, we are not in favour of any change. Where there is failure, underachievement or lack of ambition in the system, there should be change. The system should not be a reform-free zone. But if the Prime Minister believes that the expansion of grammar schools is better for social mobility, how does she explain that in grammar-school Kent just 27% of kids on free school meals get five good GCSEs, whereas the national average is 33% and in London, where there has been substantial turnaround based on all-ability schools, that figure is 45%?
Justine Greening
As the right hon. Gentleman sets out, the sense that somehow grammars are the only schools delivering good and outstanding education for our children is wrong. That is why we should not be shy of the fact that we ought to open up the system to allow grammars to play a stronger role; we can do that precisely because it is not a binary system any more with all the other schools in that system performing weakly. As he says, however, we need to recognise that it is not just opening up new grammars that is going to enable more children to get more good school places; that is part of the answer, but the other part of the answer is to enable schools to learn from one another and to collaborate more, and of course, as I have set out, to see other actors in the educational establishment, like universities and independent schools, playing a bigger role in the future.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Are not choice and diversity the key? We have been sitting here discussing this matter for over an hour, yet no one on either side of the House has suggested that a single existing grammar school should be abolished. Is it not perverse to prevent successful grammar schools, such as Caistor Grammar School or Queen Elizabeth’s High School in my constituency, from expanding to take in more disadvantaged kids? We should allow them to take in such kids from disadvantaged areas in Lincoln, Grimsby or Scunthorpe. In regard to the cap on faith schools, why did we have it in the first place? It was perverse and bizarre, and it failed in its objective. Why should Catholic parents be prevented from sending their children to the faith school of their choice?
Justine Greening
This is about opening up choice for parents, including those who want grammar school places but do not have them, and about enabling more faith schools to open. About a third of the schools in our system are faith schools and many of them have played an outstanding role in educating our children. We should enable them to do more.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
I was the council cabinet member for education and children’s services in Trafford, which retained selection at 11. Much as we tried to level up and to improve all our schools, I can tell the Secretary of State that the selective system there was expensive in budget terms, it could be divisive and it caused underperformance in a number of schools. In my experience, selection at 11 did not aid social mobility. Where is the evidence that it does?
Justine Greening
The evidence is in the fact that 99% of those schools are good or outstanding. They are a model that delivers great education. The evidence also comes from the Sutton Trust, which has tracked how children on free school meals do disproportionately well when they get into grammars. As for the hon. Lady’s challenge on the broader system, I think that grammars should rise to it in terms of raising attainment. As I pointed out earlier, however, the Sutton Trust’s research has also shown that there is no discernible reduction in attainment among children who are outside the grammar school system.
Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
I really welcome the fact that we are opening up this debate and having a consultation on this subject and a Green Paper. However, I have to say to my right hon. Friend that I am quite worried about what I have heard so far, because I have not had the answers I have been looking for. One of the big answers is to the question: how do we avoid creating a stigma for those who stay in the comprehensive system and do not go to the selective entry schools? Unless we have enough spaces, people of equal ability will be unable to get into those schools. I welcome my right hon. Friend’s comments about academy trusts involving several schools, but I believe that investing to make the streamlining within existing schools better is a good way forward. Whatever the intentions might be, if there are schools that are known for their academic ability and others that are not, a stigma will be created. What I really want to see is an excellent education system in which people from any background can achieve their potential. I went to a comprehensive school. My sister went to a comprehensive school, and she is now a fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons. This can be done within the comprehensive system. We must not create stigma—that is what I am really worried about—but I welcome the fact that we are having this consultation.
Mr Speaker
I think that the full Shelbrooke world-view should be deposited in the Library of the House, preferably by the end of the week.
Justine Greening
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his views. As he suggests, there are good and outstanding schools all over our country. This is not a binary choice between getting into a grammar and not having access to a good school. We are simply saying that academic children should have the ability to go to a school that will really stretch them, if that is what they want to do.
Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)
What the Secretary of State has just said goes to the nub of the problem. An 11-year-old source close to me started comprehensive school last week. He does not yet know whether he wants to be a chef, an astronaut, a plasterer or a lawyer. He does not know what he wants to do. Why is the Secretary of State closing off opportunities to young people at such a young age?
Justine Greening
We are doing precisely the opposite. For example, the introduction of the EBacc and much of the reform of GCSEs will be about ensuring that children come out of our school system—whatever school they have gone into—having a rigorous, balanced set of GCSE results that are academic in nature, and that all options remain open to them.
Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)
I applaud the determination of the Secretary of State and the Government to drive up standards for all, but will she confirm exactly how the proposal will prevent those who do not make the grade from being stigmatised and disincentivised? It could be particularly problematic given that all the evidence suggests that age 11 is too early to test aptitude and intellect, especially for boys.
Justine Greening
I encourage my hon. Friend to look at the consultation document that is coming out today. It sets out clearly how we want children to have more flexibility in being able to access grammars while placing conditions on the setting up of new grammars, including the need for them to work across the whole school system to raise attainment more broadly. I also say to her that we already have selection by house price and that a variety of schools already specialise, whether in music, art or sport—there will be children who do not get into those schools. The proposal is about having diversity and choice in the system to enable there to be a good school near each child that is tailored to their needs.
Dr Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State explain why she wants to link the sponsoring of schools by universities to higher tuition fees? This country’s students are already highly indebted from paying for their education without being required to pay for secondary education as well. Universities sponsoring schools might be a good thing, but asking students to pay for it is not.
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady may have misunderstood the proposal. We are saying that if universities want to be able to charge higher fees, they will need to play a stronger role in raising attainment in the system more broadly—alongside the work that they already do with bursaries. We have seen that that works effectively in some cases and want to roll it out more widely.
Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that academic excellence is a good in and of itself, and therefore that something that is academically the best is worth having and that everything else around it is fundamentally secondary? I also congratulate her on opening up faith schools. That will be particularly welcomed by the Catholic Church, which has a fantastic record on faith schools in some of the most disadvantaged and diverse communities.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The rule was ineffective and prevented Catholic faith schools from feeling that they could open under the free schools system. It is sensible to consider how we replace it with a set of rules that will work more effectively. From the reaction of the Opposition to my hon. Friend’s points on academic rigour and ability, it is clear that a class war is still under way—it is raging in the Labour party.
Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)
Can we do away with the nonsense from some Conservative supporters of grammar schools that Labour Members are somehow hypocritical because we are all from grammar schools? I was brought up on a council estate and went to a secondary modern. The right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) congratulated the Secretary of State on the moral purpose of what is being discussed today, but actually it is immoral to select young people on their academic ability. That is what we should be opposing.
I want to ask the Secretary of State a clear question. Sir Michael Wilshaw has come out against extending selection. Is he right or wrong?
Justine Greening
I have a lot of respect for Sir Michael Wilshaw, but I do not agree with him at all on this issue.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
As the product of and with three children at state faith schools, I welcome my right hon. Friend’s recognition of the huge importance of faith schools and welcome the proposals that she has set before the House. However, I have questions about two areas. Deprivation, poverty and lack of aspiration are not restricted to our urban areas and exist across rural areas. Will she ensure that all proposals are rural-proofed, particularly in large rural areas where only one comprehensive secondary school serves a large catchment area? Will she also underscore that the Government’s commitment to fairer funding to the benefit of our rural schools will be in no way hindered by the proposals announced today?
Justine Greening
First, on my hon. Friend’s last point, the Government will shortly respond to the first phase of the consultation and will set out the second phase on how to ensure that the national funding formula is fair—he set out why it is so important that we do that. Secondly, my hon. Friend is right to highlight that rural schools are in a position to improve more strongly. One of the lessons of London is that schools are close together—I see this as a London MP—and it has been easier for teachers to spend time together working out how to raise standards. We need to ensure that we can take that approach while ensuring that it still works in areas where schools are more dispersed.
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will know that in Birmingham grammar schools have existed alongside comprehensive schools for decades. Nobody argues that the King Edward schools are anything other than good schools, and they do collaborate with other schools. The point is, and I put this to the Secretary of State, that their existence has not changed and cannot change the life chances of the majority of children in Birmingham, including in terms of tackling the issue of underachievement of white working-class areas such as the one I represent. She suggests that she does not want structures to get in the way of standards. I put it to her that by making the expansion of segregation and selection the centrepiece of her ambition, her boss the Prime Minister is actually going in the opposite direction, and that whatever else this is about, it is not about schools that work for everybody.
Justine Greening
I totally disagree with the hon. Gentleman. As he will be aware, the schools in Birmingham that he talked about are now prioritising children who are eligible for the pupil premium. It is wrong simply to turn around to parents who want more choice and say that they cannot have it and that somehow they are wrong. We should be looking at how parents can get more choice and we should not simply be ignoring it, as his party is.
Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)
There is much to welcome in this statement and Green Paper—the focus on choice, the lack of ideology and the absolute commitment demonstrated by the Secretary of State to better education for all to meet the demands of the 21st century—but some things concern me. The reason why my school, Nailsea comprehensive, has improved so much, and indeed why the schools in my constituency have improved so much, is the impact of the academy programme and, in particular, the multi-academy trusts. They have enabled schools to embrace lower-performing schools, including at primary and pre-school level, to deliver better education. Will she say a little more about how her proposals would fit with the multi-academy trust model, which is so welcome? Will she indicate to the House who the decision makers will be if these choices are to be decided upon?
Justine Greening
As my hon. Friend will know, this consultation is the beginning of a discussion and debate about how we can make sure that these policy proposals work in practice. We are absolutely committed to continuing the process of working with more schools on becoming academies, as we know how much that has delivered in terms of results for our young people. The way in which multi-academy trusts are now able to work together to raise school attainment and to be themselves a way for school improvement to take place is at the heart of our Government education reforms. What we are saying with this Green Paper is that we think grammar schools should play a stronger role, in that existing system, in the future than they have done in the past.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
I was in one of the many high-performing comprehensives in my constituency on Friday, and I asked the headteacher what the real challenge is. She told me that it was those young people who are struggling academically but are from families with low aspirations. The Secretary of State’s proposals do nothing to address this issue. Why does she not experiment in the areas of the country that have grammar schools, make them take 25% free school meals students as a pilot and see what happens there before she meddles with everybody else’s education?
Justine Greening
I encourage the hon. Gentleman to look at the consultation document proposals, as I think he will welcome some elements of them. We have to remember that we are coming from a position of there being no conditionality on grammars whatsoever and far less push on them to reach out into more disadvantaged communities. That push is precisely what we are setting out in this consultation document, while also setting out our intention to give parents more choice.
Ben Howlett (Bath) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s and the Prime Minister’s commitment to opening education up for everyone and leaving nobody behind, but, having conducted research on this issue and asked the Library, I have found no evidence, thus far, to suggest that social mobility is improved as a result of opening up new grammar schools. What evidence has the Secretary of State got that she will present before this House to prove that opening new grammar schools will improve social mobility? That is something for which the Conservative party has worked hard for a very long time.
Justine Greening
I set out how research by the Sutton Trust has demonstrated the impact of grammars on free-school-meal children and on the broader school communities of which grammars are part. That is a case for change, not a case for keeping the status quo. I encourage my hon. Friend to look at our proposals to see how they can do exactly what he says, and I think he will welcome them.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)
Can the Secretary of State please explain to children and parents in my constituency why there are no outstanding schools after six years of the Tories’ accelerated academies scheme, yet rather than investing in those schemes and ensuring that the teacher shortage is addressed, that money is to be diverted into a scheme for a selected few? Is she proud that she is proposing bringing back a two-tier education system and yet more upheaval in our already exhausted schools?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady’s area demonstrates why we need to continue to do more and work harder to ensure that the reforms that we have introduced can start to have an impact for children, and it is also why we are right to leave no stone unturned in understanding how we can make sure that there are good schools and good school places for children in all parts of our country. To my mind, that requires us to look at all options, not to close some off.
Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)
Having represented parents for 16 years, I know that nothing angers them more than their children not being able to access a good local school. Will the Secretary of State therefore consider changing access to UTCs from 14 to 19 to 11 to 19?
Justine Greening
As UTCs steadily bed down and develop, we are right to look at how they can evolve over time. There are some indications that working with children at a younger age may be one of the ways to achieve a UTC model that is successful.
Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)
For the past five years I have proudly been chair of governors of the Brighton Aldridge Community Academy. It is a school that has 60% of its students on pupil premium. This year it increased its GCSE results by 21%. It is truly a school for everyone. Can the Secretary of State name a single grammar school that has more than half of its students from areas of deprivation and this year increased its GCSE results by more than 20%? If not, will she just remove this ridiculous proposal before it goes too far?
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman argues about the status quo, while resolutely standing against any proposals to change it. As he knows, the challenge that we face is selection by house price. Parents simply do not have the choice if they are not able to buy a house in a catchment area. We think that is totally unacceptable and that grammars should do more to reach into disadvantaged communities, but we also think that parents in those communities should have the choice of a grammar if that is what they want.
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
The Calder Valley is unique in the north of England, as we are still served by three state grammar schools, all of which are hugely popular with parents and pupils alike. Will my right hon. Friend, however, look at how we encourage state primary schools to help those pupils, particularly those from deprived backgrounds, who opt to sit the entrance exam, which my local state primary schools are currently opposed to doing?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend sets out a serious issue. It is one of the reasons for some of the proposals to ensure that grammars work more carefully with their feeder schools that are primaries in areas of lower income families. It is vital that we break that link. An important piece of work done by Kent County Council looked at some of the reasons why parents from lower income families were often less inclined to send their children to grammar schools. In many cases that was not just about the test; it was about school uniforms and transport costs. These are all practical steps that we can take to remove the barriers that parents sometimes wrongly think exist, which dissuade them from even applying to grammars.
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
As the Secretary of State will know from her previous job, faith-based institutions are the biggest providers of schools on the planet. I think the grammar school issue is a smokescreen to hide the disastrous policy of the 50% arbitrary cap that this Government introduced, which has led to few schools being built in areas of demand and thousands of parents therefore being denied their choice. That is this Government’s record.
Justine Greening
I do not think that is correct. The reality is that 1.4 million more children are now in good or outstanding schools. We have improving standards and a tougher but appropriately stretching curriculum. That is progress, and it is a lot more progress than Labour made.
John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con)
I was very interested in my right hon. Friend’s comments about the independent sector. Independent schools clearly have much to offer the public sector, but if an independent school does not make an adequate contribution, or is not willing to, will she consider putting VAT on its fees?
Justine Greening
The reality is that we will work with the Charity Commission to set a more stretching, tougher bar for independent schools to demonstrate that they are, indeed, eligible for charitable status. If they are unable or unwilling to meet those tougher standards, they simply will not be able to get charitable status, and that will then, of course, impact on their tax status too.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
What does it say when the new Prime Minister’s first major initiative is so regressive that the former Tory Prime Minister would rather resign from Parliament than be faced with voting for it? The Secretary of State must know what the real problems are. They are, most of all, the shortage of teachers, the workload that we then put on the rest of the teachers, insufficient pupil funding in some areas and, in most places, an absence of the very best, most outstanding leadership. Please, Secretary of State, take this issue away and come back with something serious about standards, not structures.
Justine Greening
We are working on all of those things, but that does not mean that we should not ask ourselves additionally how we can make sure that there are more good school places for more children, especially in parts of the country where there are currently insufficient good school places. It is not an either/or question. These proposals today—this Green Paper that we are opening up—are about how we ensure that the overall reforms we are bringing forward are going to be successful.
Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on her vision on religious and selective schools. May I shift the spotlight to STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering and maths? The Simon Langton boys school in my constituency has, for several years running, produced more than 1% of this country’s physics graduates. However, there is an even greater issue around maths. The blunt truth is that a child with mathematical abilities in a poor area is very unlikely to find sufficient children in the top stream of their comprehensive to provide a critical mass for maths A-level or, indeed, the more demanding teaching needed further down the school.
Justine Greening
One thing the Government have focused on has been increasing the number of children in and entries for STEM subjects—maths A-level, for example, is now the most popular A-level there is. But there is a lot further to go, not least so that we ensure that children are taking the academic exams that will open up opportunity, but also because that is what our economy needs.
Danny Kinahan (South Antrim) (UUP)
I am sure that the Secretary of State knows this because it has been touched on before, but in Northern Ireland 67 of our schools are grammar schools. We often lead in the results in the United Kingdom. One third, though, are failing. I would welcome the right hon. Lady coming to Northern Ireland to talk to all parties as well as to look at the three side effects of having grammar schools. It is important to ensure that vocations are still looked at, that we have standardised tests that everyone can get at and that we have the sharing of resources with other schools so that they are not left behind.
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman sets it out very well. It is about having a balanced package of reforms that mean not only that parents have choice, but that, fundamentally, grammars are engines of social mobility.
Victoria Atkins (Louth and Horncastle) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to sharing the success of grammar schools with neighbouring non-selective schools, and I welcome it because it is already happening in my constituency with the Horncastle Umbrella Trust, thought to be the first partnership in the country between a grammar school, Queen Elizabeth’s, and its neighbouring non-selective academy, Banovallum School. The trust works for the good of all children in Horncastle, sharing teaching practices and facilities, and bringing the students together to learn together, with pleasing GCSE results this summer for Banovallum. Will my right hon. Friend please look at these schools and the other excellent selective and non-selective schools in my constituency to see whether their example can work elsewhere in the country?
Justine Greening
I think my hon. Friend will welcome the proposals that we are setting out in the consultation document, which aim to look at how we can see stronger, more connected relationships between grammar schools and other schools nearby, and how, working together, they can lift overall attainment.
Mr Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)
As a product of Luton’s comprehensive system, I know at first hand the benefits that come from good leadership and good teaching, and that has never held back capable students from social mobility. I will do everything I can, as the town’s MP, to oppose segregation. Why does the Secretary of State believe that a system in which the pupil is chosen by the school at 11 is better than the shift that has happened in the past 15 or 20 years whereby pupil and parent together decide on a pathway at 14?
Justine Greening
Again, I do not accept that this is somehow an either/or approach on education. It is about driving more choice for parents, having more schools that can be tailored to particular children’s needs, and, in the end, raising educational standards.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. In the week or so since this debate began, it has received a very favourable response from my constituents. If we are to maximise the opportunities for our young people, we need not just more grammar schools but more young people reaching the standard at the age of 11 to qualify for them. Can she give an absolute assurance that adequate resources will be provided at all schools? She spoke of opening excellent feeder schools, but we want to make the existing schools excellent feeder schools.
Justine Greening
One of the suggestions is that expanding grammars could sponsor a primary feeder, particularly in an area of lower-income families, if that was a possibility. As my hon. Friend says, we have to look at all the work we have done in primary schools in terms of phonics and improving maths, driving up attainment to make sure that children are not only ready but at the right level to be able to move into a secondary system and then finish their education from there.
Julie Cooper (Burnley) (Lab)
I would like to congratulate the young people in my constituency who have been successful in their GCSE and A-level results this year. There is no shortage nationwide in access to excellent academic education. Our world-leading universities are welcoming more students from this country than ever before. However, we are not so good at providing access to technical and vocational qualifications, and employers across the length and breadth of this country are crying out for those skills. How exactly will introducing more grammar schools improve this situation?
Justine Greening
It needs to sit alongside the Government’s existing push on improving vocational education, improving young people’s chances to get work experience, and bringing forward 3 million apprenticeships. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to reflect on the fact that although many children will do A-levels and go on into our university system, with a higher proportion and absolute number than ever before now coming from disadvantaged families, many young people will not follow that route. We have to make sure that the vocational route can really deliver for them too.
Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) (Con)
In Lincolnshire we already have grammar schools. With about a third of pupils going to them, many from deprived backgrounds, it is clear that in the right ecosystem grammar schools can be a real engine for social mobility. Will the Secretary of State also bear in mind the contribution that is made by secondary modern schools in the 21st century—schools such as Giles Academy which have evolved to make sure that the right education is provided for the right pupils in a genuinely diverse ecosystem? If we get this right, we can produce schools that make sure that every pupil gets the education they deserve. May I invite her to come to the National Association of Secondary Moderns’ reception in the House of Commons, as her predecessor did, to pay tribute to the excellent work that goes on in those schools?
Justine Greening
I look forward to getting a chance to meet the organisation that my hon. Friend mentions. I reiterate his point, which is that we see grammars operating in parts of the country not to the detriment of the broader school community. This is not, as we saw in the past, a binary system with outstanding grammars and, by contrast, other schools—the 1950s and ’60s secondary moderns—that were not even testing the children that came through their doors, let alone really driving attainment. We are in a very different place now, with a much wider, more diverse system, but that is why we are also right to start opening it up.
Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)
I echo the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart): far from opening up opportunities to all children, all this proposal does is open up opportunities to those children whose parents can afford private tutors for them, to train and coach them through the grammar school exam. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) for his excellent suggestion that our current grammar schools should pilot some of these ideas. The Secretary of State has talked about reforming the 11-plus exam. Why does she not start that reform with our existing grammars, make the exam tutor-proof and do what she says is going to happen, namely give all young people an opportunity?
Justine Greening
I know that the hon. Lady will welcome the fact that a number of grammar schools are already looking at how they can make sure that their test focuses more on the underlying abilities of the child than on the ability of their parents to pay for a tutor. We should also look at other ways in which we can overcome those barriers, but I do not think that the answer to that is to simply—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. We cannot have a series of side conversations and Members chuntering from a sedentary position across the Chamber in evident disapproval of what the other is saying while the Secretary of State is trying to respond to questions. I was speaking to a very large group of school students in Ochil and South Perthshire on Friday, and the habitual refrain—[Interruption.] Order. I am sure that the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) will be interested in this, and if he is not, he ought to be. The habitual refrain of quite a number of the pupils was, “Why is it sometimes in Parliament that Members are discourteous to each other?” We should try to set a good example. What is required is the statesmanlike demeanour personified by the Minister for Schools, the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb), who is sitting in a solemn and reflective manner. There are many examples of Labour Members who are sitting in a similar way. We should learn from them.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend the Minister for Schools is, indeed, one of the principal reasons behind why school reform in our education system has delivered better outcomes for so many children. The hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton (Liz McInnes) has set out some of the challenges. Many grammar schools are already looking at how to ensure that they are open to more children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and I am sure that she will welcome some of the conditions that we will set on grammars to expand and some of the challenges that we will put on existing grammars to do more.
Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)
On selective schools, does the Secretary of State agree that we must take account of local circumstances? Cheltenham has some of the strongest comprehensives anywhere in the country—they offer exemplary academic rigour—and they sit alongside an excellent grammar school. Does she agree that, where great opportunities already exist and are growing, thanks to this Government’s policies, and local parents are happy with that provision, nothing should be done to disturb that delicate local balance?
Justine Greening
I do, and I have been very clear today that, as part of the consultation, we understand that we need to work with local communities. This is about more choice; it is not about dictating which schools people should have locally.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
May I press the Secretary of State on STEM—science, technology, engineering and maths—subjects? With the Humber becoming the UK’s energy estuary, thousands of new jobs will depend on people having scientific and vocational qualifications and good apprenticeships. If we are really serious about schools that work for everyone—we already have academies, we are getting a universal technical college and we have free schools—would it not be much better to concentrate on making them work best for our children, rather than introduce grammar schools, which are for a bygone age and not for this century?
Justine Greening
I will say two things in response. First, we have seen significant improvements in children’s attainment in maths and English over recent years, and we are introducing a more stretching curriculum for GCSEs. Set against that, some of the schools that are delivering best for children in achieving attainment in STEM subjects are themselves grammars, so it makes sense to look at how we can give parents in other parts of the country more choice to send their child to a local grammar.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
I welcome both the process and the breadth of the debate launched by the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State. We have four historic grammar schools in Gloucester, and for some time I have very much wanted to increase significantly the numbers of free-school-meal pupils who attend them, as well as the numbers of pupils who live closest to them. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that those issues and, indeed, options for how best to achieve them will form part of her Department’s subsequent White Paper?
Justine Greening
I will be keen to see my hon. Friend’s response to the Green Paper and the consultation document. It very much sets out these issues, and we will take account of the responses that we get. As he knows, many of the children at his local grammars are from outside his local area. That suggests that there is broader demand from parents, and we should respond to that.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
May I remind the Secretary of State that educational standards improved immeasurably in London as a result of the Labour Government’s London Challenge? It focused on standards of education in the classroom, quality teaching and excellent leadership, and it involved the collaboration of schools across the capital. We had a similar scheme in Greater Manchester, the Greater Manchester Challenge, which sadly was scrapped in the early days of the previous coalition Government. May I urge the Secretary of State, as part of this process, to focus not solely on structures but on collaboration, the drive for better standards and making sure we best use teaching and leadership to drive up educational standards in places such as Greater Manchester?
Justine Greening
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. We are setting out some proposals today about how we can get more good school places for more children, but they sit alongside all the things that he has talked about, such as standards, quality and strong leadership. I believe that grammars have many of those features, but, as he sets out, many other schools have them too. That is why we have done so much work to raise overall school standards over the last six years, and more schools than ever before are now good or outstanding. I was surprised not to hear him mention the Manchester expo proposal, which I know his local area is developing, so I thought I would do so on his behalf.
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement and her willingness to challenge the status quo and the one-size-fits- all approach to education. May I seek an assurance that in this review she will not neglect rural areas, where some communities may only have one secondary school within easy travelling distance; that she will look at how to increase diversity and choice for families in those circumstances; and that she will continue to address the shortfall in the education funding that many rural areas receive?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend has set out, as in previous points that have been made, the particular challenges that rural communities face in having strong choice and strong school places locally. I assure him that I am well aware that hon. Members in rural areas are concerned to see us get on with the national funding formula next steps, and we will be announcing what we are going to do shortly.
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
May I give the Secretary of State the opportunity to answer a question that I tried to get her to answer last week, which she simply failed to address? We can either have school selection or we can have parental choice; on one hand the school selects, and on the other the parents choose. Which is it?
Justine Greening
In the end, it is both. At the moment, many parents do not have the choice of a grammar school, so it makes sense to see what we can do to rectify that. I disagree with the underlying premise of the hon. Gentleman’s question, which is that if a child cannot get into a grammar, there are no other good schools around for them. We want to make sure that there are. In many parts of the country, grammars and non-grammar schools coexist very well together and, indeed, work very effectively together. We would be wrong not to respond to parents who want more good school places and the option of a grammar school for their child.
Mrs Flick Drummond (Portsmouth South) (Con)
May I take the opportunity to ask my right hon. Friend to congratulate Portsmouth schools, both academy and comprehensive, on another improvement in their results this year; and to congratulate St Edmund’s Catholic School on becoming an outstanding comprehensive? Will my right hon. Friend assure me that whatever structures we have, be they academies, grammars or comprehensives, the Government will concentrate on the quality of teaching, because that has the most crucial impact in raising standards?
Justine Greening
I congratulate the schools in my hon. Friend’s local area on their recent results, which are down not only to the hard work of the children, but to the dedication of the teachers in those schools that has enabled the children to do so well. As she points out, in the end this comes down to improving the quality of teaching—that is how we get good schools—and we believe that grammars can play a role in that.
Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)
The former Prime Minister, who has been mentioned in the Chamber—we will miss him around the Commons—did not go to a grammar school, but his parents managed to get him into a decent school. Is that not the point? I went to a grammar school, and I would not wish to deny that to youngsters growing up on working-class estates like the one where I grew up.
Will the Secretary of State take on one thing, which is that, increasingly, people will not be going to their nearest school? In Ribble Valley, we have Clitheroe Royal Grammar School and a number of other good schools, yet the county council refuses to give assistance to youngsters not going to their closest school. Parents are being clobbered with costs of £600, or sometimes of over £1,000 if they have two youngsters who are not going to the nearest school. Will she work with the Department for Communities and Local Government to make sure that parents and youngsters are not financially disadvantaged?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend makes an important point. In many respects, the fact that parents want places closer to where their children live underlines why we are right to give parents more choice. He raises the issue of transport costs. I am very well aware of it, and I will certainly look at what I can do to ensure that, wherever children are in our country, transport costs are not a barrier to going to the school they get into.
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)
We are very lucky in my constituency, because the brightest young people from all backgrounds are already flourishing in my locally run local education authority schools, local academies and the co-operative trust school, and we are very well served with progression to two sixth-form colleges—Greenhead College and Huddersfield New College. Will the Secretary of State assure me and local parents that this is a genuine consultation, and will she focus on social mobility and funding for smaller schools, rather than selection and segregation?
Justine Greening
I assure my hon. Friend that this is a very open and genuine Green Paper consultation. I will be interested to see the submission he makes to it. As I have said to many hon. Members, this is not about forcing local communities to have schools that they do not want; it is about working with local communities and simply giving parents more choice, if that is what they want. At the moment, there are too many parts of the country where people want it but do not have it, and we should try to do something about that.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to her place, and I also welcome her suggestions for educational reforms. May I suggest that this is not about segregation, as has been suggested by some Members on both sides of the House, but about aspiration? We only have to look at our Olympic gold medallists and other medallists, who are streamed to perfection—not everyone can attain that—and the inspiration derived from their success that ripples the whole way down to those who, perhaps like me, are not the best at the 100 metres.
Justine Greening
As my hon. Friend points out, raising children’s expectations, and also their parents’ expectations, is absolutely critical. We believe we can open up our school system to allow selection to play a role in helping that take place, but I have also set out how I want independent schools and universities to play a stronger role. Doing so will fundamentally set goals high for our children, and if they are set high, children have a chance of reaching them.
Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)
Rugby has three outstanding grammar schools, and parents will be delighted that they are able to expand. The very fact of their excellence means that bright youngsters from towns and cities outside Rugby apply for and are allocated places at them, some of which might otherwise go to Rugby children. Does the Secretary of State join me in welcoming the fact that not only will the development of grammar schools in other areas be right for those areas, but it will mean that a greater proportion of our selective places can be taken up by Rugby pupils?
Justine Greening
Indeed, I do. Although it was depressing to hear Labour Members not even willing to engage with the sort of issues that local communities actually face, we are right to open up this debate so that we can take a measured approach to understanding what a 21st-century policy on grammars should be.
Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam) (Con)
I am grateful for your generosity in allowing me to ask a question following my absence, Mr Speaker.
I welcome the Secretary of State’s comments about the fact that schools have already started to change their admissions exams to recognise that the over-tutoring of children just to squeeze them into grammar schools can have a negative effect, because they may struggle for the following seven years.
We were asked for a London example. Does the Secretary of State agree that the example of Sutton is a good one? There are six either fully or partly selective schools working closely with two Catholic schools, two schools that provide extra assistance to those who are gifted at sport, and other schools that provide a wide range of vocational training, including Stanley Park High School in the neighbouring constituency of Carshalton and Wallington. Stanley Park has gone from being an average state school to being The Times Educational Supplement’s secondary school of the year. All that is underpinned by inspirational leadership and great teaching, which is what can make schools work for everyone.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has obviously used the long wait to allow his thoughts to fructify in his mind. We are deeply obliged to him.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend sets out how a number of very different schools can work together effectively to raise standards and attainment collectively, while at the same time giving parents a choice so that they can find the school nearby that will be best for their child. That is precisely what we are aiming for in opening up the debate and issuing the Green Paper, and I look forward to continuing that over the coming months.
Mr Speaker
I thank the Secretary of State and all colleagues who have taken part in this important series of exchanges.
Bill Presented
Arms Export Controls (Countries of Concern) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Tom Brake presented a Bill to establish a presumption against licensing arms exports to certain countries designated by the Secretary of State as being countries of concern in relation to their respect for human rights; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 21 October, and to be printed (Bill 63).
New Grammar Schools
Justine Greening Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)
To ask the Secretary of State for Education to make a statement on the Government’s plans to lift the statutory ban on opening new grammar schools in England.
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
As the Prime Minister has said, this Government are committed to building a country that works for everyone, not just the privileged few. We believe that every person should have the opportunity to fulfil their potential, no matter what their background or where they are from.
Education is at the heart of this ambition. We inherited a system from the Labour Government, however, where far too many children left school without the qualifications or the skills they needed to be successful in life. Our far-reaching reforms over the last six years have changed this, strengthening school leadership, improving standards of behaviour in our classrooms, ensuring children are taught to read more effectively and improving maths teaching in primary schools. As a result there are now 1.4 million more pupils in schools rated as good or outstanding than in 2010.
This means more young people are being given the opportunity to access better teaching and to maximise their potential. This is what we want for all children, and we are continuing our reforms so that every child can have the best possible start in life. It is why we are doubling free childcare to 30 hours for working parents of three and four-year-olds. As I said in July, on the issue of academic selection I am open-minded because we cannot rule anything out that could help us grow opportunity for all and give more people the chance to do well in life.
The landscape for schools has changed hugely in the last 10, 20, 30 years. We now have a whole variety of educational offers available. There will be no return to the simplistic binary choice of the past, where schools separate children into winners and losers, successes or failures. This Government want to focus on the future, to build on our success since 2010 and to create a truly 21st-century school system. However, we want a system that can cater for the talent and the abilities of every single child. To achieve that, we need a truly diverse range of schools and specialisms. We need more good schools in more areas of the country responding to the needs of every child, regardless of their background. We are looking at a range of options, and I expect any new proposals to focus on what we can do to help everyone to go as far as their individual talents and capacity for hard work can take them. Education policy to that end will be set in due course.
Angela Rayner
Wow! Despite that waffle, the cat is finally out of the bag. The Government have revealed their plans for new grammar schools in England, but not in this House—we did not even hear the word “grammar” just then. Instead, they did it through leaks to the press and at a private meeting of Conservative Members. So much for the one nation Government we were promised. Will the Secretary of State promise today that future such announcements will be made here so that we can give this policy the scrutiny it so badly needs?
Perhaps the Secretary of State can tell us the evidence base for this policy today. Has she read the Institute for Fiscal Studies report “Entry into Grammar Schools in England”? If so, perhaps she remembers the conclusion:
“amongst high achievers, those who are eligible for”
free school meals
“or who live in poorer neighbourhoods are significantly less likely to go to a grammar school.”
The OECD and the Sutton Trust, and even the Government’s own social mobility tsar and their chief inspector of schools, have all cited the evidence against this policy. In Kent, where we have grammar schools, the attainment gap is far wider than it is elsewhere. So can the Secretary of State tell the House what evidence she has to support her belief that grammar schools will help disadvantaged children and close the attainment gap?
At a time when our schools are facing a crisis in teacher recruitment and retention, with thousands taught in super-size classes and schools facing real-term cuts to their budget for the first time in nearly two decades, pushing ahead with grammar schools shows a dangerous misunderstanding of the real issues facing our schools. What will the Secretary of State be doing to address the real problems facing our schools today?
The Prime Minister has said this policy is justified because we already have social selection. Quite how making things worse by bringing back grammar schools as a solution remains a mystery. Perhaps the Secretary of State can tell us why she is not ensuring that all children get a decent education?
This policy will not help social mobility but will entrench inequality and disadvantage. It will be the lucky few who can afford the tuition who will get ahead and the disadvantaged who will be left behind—a policy for the few at the expense of the many. I was told that the Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I do not even think they know that anymore.
Finally, the Prime Minister promised to lead a one nation Government. She said that her policy would be led by the evidence, and she claimed that she would govern for the disadvantaged, not the privileged few, yet this policy fails on every single count. It may be a new Prime Minister, but it is the same old nasty Tories.
Justine Greening
The first thing I would say to the hon. Lady is that we have not yet actually made any policy announcements; they will be made in due course. She has given a commentary on what I guess she presumes the policy announcement will be. I would encourage her to wait. Broadly, we are interested in increasing diversity and meeting parents’ desire for choice in having a school near to them that matches the needs of their child. We also want to see capacity built into the system, in two ways. We want more good schools near to children where they need them. There are too many parts of our country where, in spite of all the reforms we have made and the improvements in attainment that we have seen, there are still children who cannot get good enough access to a good school. We also want to build capacity by having some of our best schools work with other schools in the system to help collectively to raise attainment and standards as a whole. We want to see all parts of our education system, not just the school system but universities as well, playing a stronger, better role.
The hon. Lady asked about evidence. She quoted a report by the IFS that does mention free school meals. However, I must say that I do not understand her argument. She seems to be criticising the status quo while resolutely defending keeping it in place. It was really interesting listening to her, because, in many respects, the words echoed the voices that I heard in my childhood—people having a dogmatic debate about the education system while I studied in my local comprehensive entirely untouched by that ideological debate. What we want to do, and what we think this Parliament and the country should do, is to be prepared to look at the practical ways that we can improve attainment for our children, and to leave no stone unturned to do that.
Complaining about one aspect of our school system and then saying that we should not even have a debate about that element is, frankly, an untenable argument. It is, in essence, politics and dogma coming before pupils and opportunity. It is about Labour Members prioritising, as we can see today, an ideological debate, while Government Members want a debate about the practical steps we can take to tackle generational failure and schools that still are not delivering for children who live near to them. It would be wrong to discount how we can improve prospects for those children, especially the most disadvantaged, purely because of political dogma. If Labour Members are not willing to ask themselves these difficult questions, how can they possibly come up with any of the solutions?
We do believe that selection can play a role, and we think there is evidence to show that it does for many children in grammar schools—but anyhow, we need to leave no stone unturned. We will set out our policies for consultation in due course, and I am sure that hon. Members will want to debate them thoroughly after that.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
The World Economic Forum has recently reminded us that we are well down the tables in terms of literacy and numeracy. It says that some 20% of 16 to 18-year-olds struggle with literacy, and the figure for numeracy is even worse—25%. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is absolutely vital that any discussion about grammar schools does not distract us from our fundamental task of improving social mobility and ensuring that we make the best use of all the talent across the whole country and do not just talk about the few?
Justine Greening
I strongly agree. The Sutton Trust report focused particularly on free-school-meal children and how they performed in, for example, grammar schools. The educational gains from attending grammar schools were twice as high for pupils with free school meals compared with the impact for pupils at grammar schools overall. As my hon. Friend points out, while grammars, in their own way, provide a stretching, outstanding education for many children from all backgrounds that helps them to have better prospects in life, they are one part of a very broad-based school system—a system that has been transformed out of all recognition from when grammars were originally introduced. We now need to look at how we can have a 21st-century education policy that takes a pragmatic look at the role of grammars and, of course, across the whole system. He is absolutely right that we will not lose sight of the broader reforms that we are bringing through that will improve standards across the board.
Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State represents a London constituency, so she will know that London schools have improved dramatically over the past 15 to 20 years. Does she agree that that has happened because of a focus on high standards for all children in all schools, not by going down the route of selection? May I urge her not to turn the clock back to grammar schools, but to focus on high standards in all schools in all parts of the country, for all children?
Justine Greening
I absolutely reassure the hon. Gentleman that we will not be turning the clock back. I think that the London lessons are about collaboration, school leadership and sharing those best practice experiences across schools. The challenge that I want us to discuss is how we can make sure that all schools play a role in doing that, rather than simply setting grammars to one side and saying that they should not play as great a role across the rest of the school system. I think they should, and we want to have that debate and discussion. Fundamentally—I come back to my opening comments—this is about having more good school places for more children. It is about building capacity through better and more places and by sharing best practice, and about improving school leadership by having schools working closely together.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
In Queen Elizabeth’s Grammar School in Faversham, I am fortunate to have an excellent grammar school in my constituency. As my right hon. Friend will know, people move to Kent because of its grammar schools. Does she agree that it is not right for an excellent academic education to be available only to those who can move to the catchment areas of outstanding schools?
Justine Greening
We need to improve diversity and choice. As the Prime Minister has said, the reality is that too often in Britain we do have selection, but it is on the basis of house prices, which is totally unacceptable in a modern Britain. We need to challenge ourselves to talk about how we can change that and improve standards for children, wherever they are in our country. Simply saying that something is off the table because of political ideology and dogma does not serve the children whose future prospects we want to improve.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
May I beg the new Secretary of State to listen to the expertise that is out there? She might know that I chair the advisory council of the Sutton Trust. I ask her to listen to the Sutton Trust, because we believe in evidence-based policy, and to the chief inspector of schools, and to look at those areas that have for years had this kind of education, with the 11-plus, and at what it has done to the entirety. If she looks at Kent in depth, she will learn some lessons that might push her in a different direction.
Justine Greening
It is time that we look at the Kent experience. I know that Kent has done a lot of work to dig into how it can get more children from disadvantaged backgrounds into its grammar schools. The hon. Gentleman has raised issues of principle, but my attitude and response is, if that is how he feels, why would he want us to discount looking at how we can make grammars work more effectively with the rest of their local communities, and not just for those children who get to them, but for those who do not? It seems to me that the Labour party’s response to all of those challenges is to raise them, but to then simply put them to one side and ignore them. I do not think that that is sensible.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
Bradford is one of the worst-performing education districts in the country. There is a wide provision of some outstanding results and some very dire results. People who can afford to buy a house in a good catchment area tend to get a school that produces outstanding results, whereas those who cannot afford to buy a house in a good catchment area tend to get a school with the worst results. When can people in Bradford, including working-class people, get access to the very best grammar schools that we need? They surely should not just be a preserve of the Tory shires.
Justine Greening
I think that my hon. Friend speaks for many constituency MPs around the country. The point is that people should have choice, and it should not be for Government to deprive them of that choice about how they want to educate their children. This is about choice and diversity, as well as about building capacity in the system.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State well knows that apart from giving our young people the best possible teaching, the most important thing we can do for them is to encourage them as they make their way through school. Given that we are still, as a nation, dealing with the legacy of a divided education system, why on earth does she think that subjecting more 11-year-old children to the experience of being told by their tearful parents, who have opened the envelope, that they have failed will encourage them and support their self-esteem and continuing career through the education system?
Justine Greening
Dare I say it, that was yet another Labour MP telling us what is wrong with the current system, in his view, while also arguing that we should not look at that. The legacy that we are interested in challenging is the one left by the previous Labour Government: grade inflation; declining standards; and children leaving our education system without even the basics in maths and literacy. While I was sat on a train last weekend, I listened to a young man talking about how the fact that he did not know how to spell was holding him back at work. We managed to take power from the Labour party, but that man has to live with the consequences of an education system that fundamentally failed him every single day of his life.
We inherited a university system that had a cap on the number of children who could enter it. Record numbers of young people were not in employment, education or training. Youth employment had gone up by 50% by the time Labour left office. We are interested in not only catching up that lost ground for our young people, but making sure beyond that that we leave no stone unturned. We want to look across our entire education system to turbocharge the prospects and opportunities for all children in our country, but especially the most disadvantaged and especially those who do not currently have the opportunities that they need, deserve and should have.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
I welcome the Government’s decision at least to open this debate. A statutory ban on the establishment of grammar schools should be no part of a Conservative Government’s policy. Evidence from my area, where grammar schools are available just down the road in the neighbouring council area, indicates that there is widespread support for the establishment of a grammar school. Coastal communities are particularly vulnerable to poor educational standards, so I hope that the Secretary of State will give due consideration to that if the policy goes forward. May I also urge her to consider the extension of bilateral schools?
Justine Greening
I am sure that my hon. Friend will be interested to see our policies when they are published shortly. He talks about some of the elements of our secondary system. I know that he wants to make sure that his local community has access to better schools for more local children, and that is precisely what we are aiming to achieve overall.
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is quite right not to rule out a discussion of grammar schools forming part of the wide range of schools that we have. I declare an interest as the product of a wonderful grammar school. Would she like to visit Northern Ireland, where grammar schools still exist? In Northern Ireland, grammar schools are hugely popular. There is good education right across the spectrum, no matter what a young person’s ability. Results continue to improve and to be better than those in the rest of the United Kingdom, and there is very little private education. Perhaps she might like to go to Northern Ireland and talk to the First Minister.
Justine Greening
I thank the hon. Lady for that invitation; I am sure I will want to take her up on it shortly. I should emphasise to the House that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) said, this is the opening up of a debate. It is important for our children that we have that debate if we are to rise to the challenge of looking at what will improve attainment and ensure that they have good schools where they are growing up.
We will look at all the options very carefully. I recognise that this is an emotive debate, but that is because it matters. That is why we should be prepared to have a debate about this, given how much our broader school system has changed. I will look very carefully at all the arguments that are made and all the evidence that is produced, because that is important, too. I am keen to hear from colleagues on both sides of the House and we will be setting out all our policy options shortly.
Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)
I warmly welcome the Secretary of State’s comments. All children have the right to fulfil their full potential. Will she assure the House that she is considering all methods of selection and that this is not about bringing back the 11-plus?
Justine Greening
We will set out our policies much more broadly, but I assure hon. Members that there will be no return to the past. This is about moving forward with a 21st-century approach to our school system, and precisely not one rooted in the 1960s and 1970s. I just hope that the Labour party is able to engage in a modern debate, rather than one that is 40 to 50 years old.
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
In the clamour from some areas about creating new grammar schools, many people forget that the creation of new grammar schools de facto creates secondary modern schools, because the intake is skewed by grammar schools. In his speech to London Councils on Monday, the chief inspector accepted that grammar schools, where they exist, do “a fine job” with the intake they have, but said that they have a very poor track record in admitting youngsters from “non-middle-class backgrounds”. If we are to go down this road, what can the Secretary of State do to confirm that that would not be the case in other parts of the country?
Justine Greening
That again underlines why we are right to open up this agenda for debate. In a way, we will not be able to tackle any of the issues that the hon. Gentleman cares about without a broader look at what a modern policy approach to grammars should look like. We should not simply discount the excellent education that so many children get at grammars, including children from very disadvantaged backgrounds. We should look harder at how we can make sure that grammars play a role more collaboratively in a wider, broader school system, while ensuring that they build capacity and provide more good places as they steadily improve.
Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire) (Con)
Yesterday, during an Education Committee evidence session, we heard about the truism that what affects pupils’ attainment most is good teaching in the classroom. That is evidently true, but does the Secretary of State agree that structures can sometimes support learning? A 2011 PISA—programme for international student assessment—study showed that giving schools autonomy improves outcomes, so further choice for parents, teachers and students may provide further opportunities.
Justine Greening
I think that is right. Critically, we need the right level of autonomy for schools so that they can actually get on with the job of teaching our children. We need fantastic leadership in our schools. We know from the London experience that that was absolutely critical. Heads who showed what could be done in difficult schools then worked with other schools so that they could put in place the same approaches. More broadly, we also need teaching staff who are motivated and able to work effectively in the classroom with children who can be disciplined effectively by a head who genuinely feels they have control over and can exercise leadership in their school. All those things make a difference.
Beyond that, if we are to make an impact on long-term social mobility in Britain—it will not change overnight—we need not just schools and the education family to drive social mobility, but communities, business, our universities and civil society to do so. Everybody needs to play a role, alongside core education reform, to make sure that children in the classroom and outside it can get the skills, knowledge, advice and experience that they will need truly to develop their potential.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
When the chief inspector said that the idea that poor children would benefit from an expansion in the number of grammar schools was “tosh and nonsense”, was he being ideological?
Justine Greening
As we open up this debate, people will have different views, but I do not believe that that is a reason not to have the debate. It is too important for that. Improving attainment and having more good school places for more children—building the capacity we need in our system so that we can have great schools on the doorstep for every child in our country—is too important simply to be put in the “too hard” bucket and for us to say that we might have a bit of a debate about it. I think we should have this debate and that we should work out what we must do to do a better job of raising the attainment of the children who currently do not go far enough.
Several hon. Members rose—
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I am not an expert on the theory of secondary education, but having attended a grammar school with a largely working-class contingent in the 1960s, I know something about the practice, from which we all benefited. Will the Secretary of State explain why it is acceptable to nurture and promote sporting excellence but not academic excellence?
Justine Greening
My right hon. Friend raises a good point about the broader issue of selection. All children are different, so playing to their talents and natural interests is important. Parents should have more choice and diversity in the school system so that they are able to find not just a good school, but a good school that will be particularly good for their child.
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
The job of education in the 21st century is to maximise opportunity for the maximum number of children, whatever their background. Ofsted’s chief inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, said this week that a return for grammar schools would not do that, but would be a
“profoundly retrograde step that would actually lead to overall standards sliding back, not improving”.
He said that in grammar school Bexley, just 9% of disadvantaged children go to its grammar schools, while in non-grammar school Hackney, 62% of children go on to university compared with 48% in the country as a whole. Does the Secretary of State agree that where there is failure and disadvantage, the answer should not be this festival of bring-backery, but instead a focus on expanding opportunity for all schools right across the system?
Justine Greening
Expanding opportunity is at the heart of what we are doing. Rather than jumping the gun, I encourage the right hon. Gentleman to wait to see the Government’s proposals. Yet again we have heard the Labour party complaining about the current system while seemingly maintaining a position of not wanting to have a debate about how we can make it better overall and then ensure that the entire school system can benefit from that improvement.
Several hon. Members rose—
Sir Desmond Swayne
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am slowly adjusting myself to the metaphysical plane.
I welcome what the Secretary of State has said about diversity and choice, but will she acknowledge that a grammar school might not be suited to every town? I would not relish the prospect of informing parents in Fordingbridge, Ringwood, New Milton or Lymington that their child, not having been able to get into the grammar school, would have to be bussed elsewhere.
Justine Greening
My right hon. Friend raises the important point that local communities need to be intrinsically involved in how their school system develops, and I assure him that we are very seized of that. I should also take this opportunity to put on record how much I enjoyed working with him in our previous roles within the Department for International Development. He did an outstanding job and was a pleasure to have as a ministerial colleague.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
All of us want the best for our children, but in answering the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns)—although in my view she did not answer it—did not the Secretary of State understand the very real fear that reintroducing grammar schools also reintroduces secondary moderns? That will mean, in essence, recreating divisions when the consensus has been that we should not allow those divisions in our education system. How will proposing new grammar schools, which will bring in secondary moderns, improve attainment for all pupils in all our communities?
Justine Greening
The fundamental premise of the hon. Gentleman’s question is wrong. This is absolutely not about going back to the past. Secondary moderns for many years did not even put their children through a single exam. Our school system has, thankfully, been reformed beyond all recognition since then, so the premise of his question is wrong. This is about improving standards for all children. He asked how we can help to make that happen. One way is by having good and outstanding schools playing more of a role and lifting other schools that can benefit from their experience and knowledge.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s focus on excellence and education for all. I invite her to come and look at the mixed economy that exists in Salisbury, with grammar schools, university technical colleges, a free sixth form, local authority schools and a multi-academy trust forming shortly. I would like to place an emphasis on the dynamics between the different types of schools. In particular, grammar schools work with their neighbours nearby to raise standards across the board. The focus on the Progress 8 score—the progress made by every school—is surely where the emphasis needs to be placed.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Collaboration and having good schools working with the broader family to raise overall attainment is important. Secondly, he is right that we should be looking to challenge schools on the progress of every single child. Part of the problem with the floor approach of getting children into GCSEs and achieving good A* to C grades was that it missed out on the often brilliant progress that schools make with children who are perhaps further back in their attainment. We should value that work, and that is the intention of Progress 8.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. On a consensual note, the Secretary of State will surely share the view that the biggest and most significant problem in British education is the long tail of underperforming boys in our poorer areas, few of whom will actually pass the 11-plus. How on earth does she think the creation of grammar schools, in simple terms, is a solution to this problem?
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that the Department for Education has a range of different policies. We are allowed to have more than one policy to tackle poor attainment. We will be bringing forward proposals on how we feel the broader schools system, including grammars, and the broader education system can work together more effectively to raise attainment. He is absolutely right to highlight the point about white working-class boys. Interestingly, the Sutton Trust looked at primary schools that were doing a good job on improving attainment for white working-class boys. Sadly, only about eight or 10 really improved attainment dramatically. We can, however, learn from that experience and make sure that best practice is spread more effectively. The issue is absolutely critical and he is right to focus on it.
Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)
There is no doubt that there is a virtual scrum of parents around almost every grammar school in the country trying to take advantage of the excellent education and opportunities that they provide. The answer, therefore, is not to sneer at grammar schools or to try to close them down, but to enhance them. At the moment, new schools can select on the basis of children’s ability at performing arts, sports and music, but not on their ability at maths or English. How can that be right?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is right. The scrums around good schools are not just around good grammars; they are around good and outstanding schools more generally. That is why our focus surely has to be on opening up the system as much as we can to make sure that we absolutely maximise our ability to get good schools and more places at such schools for children in their local areas. Many of our colleagues talk about how children come from miles away to attend the good school in their constituency. Perhaps if we already had a good school closer to where those children live, they would not need to spend their time travelling, and losing out on homework and study time.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
I very much welcome the comprehensive-educated Secretary of State to her post and wish her well in this new challenge.
The
“age of 11 is too early to make final decisions about a child’s future.”—[Official Report, 8 July 1970; Vol. 803, c. 683.]
So said Margaret Thatcher, the Secretary of State who oversaw the greatest expansion of comprehensive education. Does the current Secretary of State really want to increase the number of children taking the 11-plus and to bring back secondary moderns and grammar schools, with the negative impact on achievement predicted by Her Majesty’s chief inspector and the negative impact on social mobility predicted by the Government’s social mobility adviser?
Justine Greening
I have a great amount of respect for the hon. Gentleman. I know he spent a career in education before coming into this place. I would simply say to him, as I have said to many other colleagues, that he should wait for the policy options to come out. I will be interested to hear his response to them in due course.
Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)
I went to a state grammar school in south London, and I owe my place here to that school. The best grammar schools actively seek children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and 14% of pupils at Wallington County grammar school, next door to Croydon, are on free school meals. Does the Secretary of State support that school’s plan to open a satellite grammar school in my constituency, rather like the one that was opened in Sevenoaks a few months ago?
Justine Greening
I think all of us are here because of the education that we were lucky enough to have. The challenge that we face, and the challenge that we are debating today, is ensuring that no child misses out on that opportunity because of the postcode lottery of where they happen to have been born. We need to ensure that good schools, whatever kind of good schools they are, have more freedom to expand and deliver more good places in our school system for children who do not currently have them.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
I have listened carefully to the Secretary of State, and I have not heard her explicitly support the policy that was announced by the Prime Minister at last night’s private Back-Bench Conservative meeting and leaked to the media. The Secretary of State smiles, but that is an interesting fact. The Prime Minister has repeatedly boasted that she likes to make decisions—thinking very carefully about them—on the basis of evidence. Is the Secretary of State aware of any evidence that shows that a grammar school system improves attainment across the piece, or improves social mobility?
Justine Greening
As I have said in the past, we have not set out the policy proposals—they will be set out in due course—but I refer the right hon. Gentleman to research conducted by the Sutton Trust, which clearly identified improved attainment by children on free school meals in grammar schools. The trust also said that its research showed no negative impact on the attainment of children outside the grammar school system. I recognise that different studies have identified different challenges relating to selection, but if that is the view that Members take, is there not all the more reason to open up a debate and discuss how we can develop a sensible policy on grammar schools?
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
I was educated in a comprehensive school, and I saw the benefits of both academic and vocational education. Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the things we must do in society is assess young people and ensure that we can provide teaching that stretches them to the utmost so that they achieve the best they can, and does she agree that assessments at all ages are important so that we end up with the best possible people in society?
Justine Greening
Absolutely. While we are right to focus on the academic attainment of children in our schools because if they do not learn the basics they simply will not be able to succeed in any walk of life, we should recognise that one of the most important things we can do alongside that is embed our reforms of vocational education and apprenticeships, and ensure that those are competitive routes for young people who want to choose a path in life that is fundamentally different from an academic one. Underlying these exchanges at times is a slight sense among Opposition Members that education is purely about academic attainment. That is critical, but it certainly does not represent the totality of what we want our children to gain before leaving an education system. They must gain knowledge, but also, critically, they must gain skills. We must build skills pathways for the children who will be pursuing a much more vocational life course.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State recently told The Times Educational Supplement:
“The times I learnt best were when I had great, amazing teachers, who could excite me about learning”.
I entirely agree. However, heads and chairs of governors in my constituency who are working really hard to raise standards and increase opportunities for all our young people tell me that the recruitment and retention of good teachers is the biggest challenge that they face. Does the Secretary of State not understand the frustration that they feel because she has focused on structures when evidence does not suggest that they work, rather than focusing on the problems that they see every day when trying to deliver a fantastic education for people in Nottingham?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady is right. As she says, the issue of recruiting and retaining teachers, and unlocking their ability to get on with their job and to be excellent in the classroom, is truly important, and is relevant to some of the policy options that we will set out in respect of selection. It is indeed absolutely vital, and I assure the hon. Lady that we are not losing our focus on it.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
I am sure many people throughout Torbay, where three grammar schools work perfectly well with comprehensive schools, a studio school and a successful technical college, will have listened to some of the comments we have heard today, particularly from the shadow Education Secretary, in amazement. Does the Secretary of State agree that there is nothing radical about the idea of giving other areas the chance to choose to have the education system from which Torbay already benefits?
Justine Greening
For me, it is about two things. It is about being prepared to leave no stone unturned in asking what it is going to take to improve our education system for children and it is about having a practical debate on that which goes beyond the ideological debate and puts pupils first.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
In Trafford, where we have selection, our schools perform very well not because of selection but because of great teaching and good leadership, but I must tell the Secretary of State that the majority of parents in Trafford, especially parents of children with special educational needs, do not feel that they get their child into the school of their choice. In particular they feel that the grammar schools are reluctant to take children with special needs because they will depress the school’s results. Can she assure the House that the needs of those particularly vulnerable children will be given appropriate attention in the strategy she proposes?
Justine Greening
I am grateful for that question. I would be happy to sit down with the hon. Lady to discuss that matter further. It is incredibly important that we not only raise attainment across the board but leave no child out of the progress that we are seeing in our schools.
Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
Parents in Dover, Deal and Kent as a whole see grammar schools and faith-based schools as engines of opportunity and aspiration. If the Government are going to look at having new grammar schools, which I wholly support, will they also look at more faith-based schools and more skills education throughout life to give people the greatest life chances at every stage in their lives?
Justine Greening
I agree that it is about choice, about diversity and about having more choice for parents and a school system that means that they can find the school for their child that is tailored to their needs.
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
How does this help the Government’s new industrial strategy? We know that they still have a policy of having technology colleges, which seem to have disappeared somewhat. How will grammar schools help the new industrial strategy? In addition, has the Secretary of State had any discussions with the Roman Catholic Church and the Anglican Church about the potential impact on existing faith schools, particularly in the Teesside conurbation?
Justine Greening
As I have said, we will announce our policy options in due course. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will want to respond to them, but education in schools is critical to delivering our long-term industrial strategy and to meeting the dual challenges of having a successful economy and of having our migration levels more under control. One way we can do that incredibly constructively is to meet more of our skills needs through our own young people—to train and educate them to be able to play their role in British industry, helping our country to be successful.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that with all the different schools now available, if parents do not want to choose a grammar school education for their children, such schools will not survive and thrive? We should at least give parents with limited means the same choice that better off parents have.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We should not accept poor school standards, whatever school the children are in. We must challenge low attainment wherever we find it, but the point I am making today is that it is not good enough to take something off the table just because of political ideology. We need to challenge all aspects of our education system to play a greater role in raising attainment and building capacity.
Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
There remains a fundamental contradiction at the heart of the Government’s thinking, which I suspect has been muddled by the ideology that they are accusing Labour of: either the school selects or the parent chooses, but you cannot have selection and choice together. Therefore, does not the suggestion last night by the Prime Minister that she wants to see an element of selection surely indicate that the Government have abandoned parental choice?
Justine Greening
I encourage the hon. Gentleman to wait for the policy options to be announced. I am sure that he will want to respond to them.
Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)
I am sure parents in Newark will warmly welcome a new grammar school, as hundreds, often on very low incomes, have to cross the border into Lincolnshire. Does the Secretary of State acknowledge what a lot our existing grammar schools are achieving on very low funding? My local grammar school, which is in Gainsborough, gets by on £4,000 per pupil, while the lowest performing school in Lincolnshire, in Lincoln, has almost £8,000, so grammar schools do provide good value for money as well as high standards.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend makes his point very well, and he will be aware that we are developing our proposals on reforming the funding formula for schools. I know he will want to represent his community as we do that, but it is important that we get more equitable funding for pupils than we currently have.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
It has been a trait of this Tory Government that they steal the language of the left to cover up the mean and regressive policies they introduce, using terms like “social mobility” when they mean quite the opposite. All the empirical evidence shows that investment in early-years does more to move children forward than any form of selection at 11 could ever justify, so does the Secretary of State regret closing 800 Sure Start centres? Should we not be investing there, rather than having this pointless debate about bringing back selection?
Justine Greening
I do not accept this either/or characterisation of policy. What we need to do is improve education at every stage of a child’s life, including early- years.
Mr Bone
I am not entirely sure what Northamptonshire has done to deserve getting the last questions.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) on securing this urgent question, but I think she is under a misapprehension. I know that under Labour announcements were made in the press, but this Government make announcements here. At the meeting last night, there were no new announcements of policy, and I would be the first to object if the Government started to do that. Will the Secretary of State confirm that once the policy has been decided upon, she will come to the House and report on it?
Justine Greening
I think that was a very good choice, Mr Speaker, and yes I can assure my hon. Friend that I will come to make a statement.
Mr Hollobone
I have to tell the Secretary of State that in Kettering, where five of the six secondary schools are already academies and we have one of the fastest housebuilding rates in the country, and where recent exam success was very encouraging, the debate is not about whether we bring back grammar schools or not; it is about having more school places. Will she confirm her support for the Conservative manifesto commitment that all good schools, whether maintained, academies, free or grammar, be allowed to expand?
Justine Greening
Yes, absolutely. Our desire is to make sure that it does not matter what kind of school a good school is, but that it has the chance to create the additional good places that our country needs. For areas that do not have any good schools, we need to ensure we have a school system that is freed up enough so that schools can be set up there that really do improve prospects for children, or that we network those schools with other good schools nearby that are delivering. I have to say, however, that there are some parts of our country where that has proved challenging, which is why we need to leave no stone unturned.
Tom Pursglove
Does my hon. Friend agree that not only do different things work in different areas, but it is essential that we have a mixture of routes by which our young people can go on to succeed? Surely it is only right that a new Government are reviewing exactly where we are and looking at how best we can enhance what matters most, which is opportunity.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have 1.4 million more children in good or outstanding schools. We have done that in a variety of ways in terms of what children are learning in the class, but also in how we are getting schools to work together more collaboratively, but we now need to ask how we can take that to the next level. Critically, for the 1 million-plus children who still are not reaching the attainment levels we want and are living in parts of the country where they do not have a chance to get to a good school, we have to make sure that we change the terms of trade in terms of their educational opportunities.
School Funding
Justine Greening Excerpts(8 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Education if she will make a statement on school funding.
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
I am firmly committed to introducing fairer funding for schools, high needs and early years. This is an important reform, to fairly and transparently allocate funding on the basis of schools’ and children’s actual needs.
As the written statement I have laid today sets out, this Government are investing record levels of funding for schools. With that investment, fairer funding will set a common foundation that will enable schools to maximise the potential of every child. They will no longer be held back by a funding system that is now arbitrary, out of date and unfair. Fairer funding will provide a crucial underpinning for the education system to act as a motor for social mobility and social justice.
The first stage consultations on national funding formulae for schools and high needs have been met with an overwhelmingly positive response from headteachers, teachers, governors and parents. I am also clear that this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity for a historic change and therefore we must make sure we take the time to get the final approach right. I will therefore publish the Government’s full response to the first stage of the schools and high needs consultations, and set out my proposals for the second stage, once Parliament returns in the autumn. We will run a full consultation, and make final decisions early in the new year. Given the importance of consulting widely and fully with the sector and getting implementation right, the new system will apply from 2018-19. I will set out our full plans for a national funding formula for early years shortly.
I do understand that local authorities need sufficient information to begin planning their funding arrangements for 2017 to 2018. Local authorities need time to consult with local schools—both academies and maintained—to ensure that the funding they provide is being directed appropriately. As well as a fair system, schools and local authorities need stability and early notice of any changes in order to fulfil this important duty properly.
I have therefore confirmed today in my written statement that no local authority will see a reduction from their 2016-17 funding for schools or for high needs next year. Final allocations for that will follow in December on the basis of the latest pupil numbers, as usual. My written statement also confirms that for 2017-18 we will retain the minimum funding guarantee for schools, so that no school can face a funding reduction of more than 1.5% per pupil next year. As my written statement today confirms, I am determined to ensure both that we move to a fair funding system and that we do so in a measured and properly consultative fashion.
This will be a crucial part of delivering an education system that works for every child, no matter their background.
Neil Carmichael
The key point, as the Secretary of State has spotted, is that local authorities need to have time to prepare, and so too do schools. So the essential question is: can the Government really meet this timetable as set out, because that is the desire of all schools, particularly in England obviously, and it is of interest to every single Member of Parliament in England? I ask the Secretary of State to confirm when she really does expect this programme to be fulfilled, and how she is going to be sure that the next consultation period does not take quite as long as the previous one, because that took some three months to complete, and we still do not know where we are. Those are the key questions.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is right that we want to strike a balance between moving rapidly towards a fairer funding formula while at the same time making sure we do so in a way that allows time not only for the details of that formula to be debated, because they will have a big impact on how it works effectively, but for local authorities, and indeed schools, to understand the changes and then prepare. That is the balance that I have tried to strike today.
I also want to act responsibly by ensuring that we do not rush into making changes without being fully sighted of their ramifications. I know that the debates in Parliament on the fair funding formula have resulted in long-standing frustration, and I am committed to resolving that, but I want to be sure that we do this effectively so that we do not have to revisit it because we have not got it right the first time.
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)
This Government’s attitude to school funding is woeful. Talk about last minute! Schools are struggling to cope with a 5% funding shortfall as a result of the Chancellor’s decision to increase national insurance and teachers’ pension contributions. Does the Secretary of State not recognise that pupil numbers are rising and that the shortage of teachers is growing? Will she put money into helping schools in the new formula? Only this Government could have the audacity to deliver real-terms cuts to school budgets across the country and claim that it represented fair funding. Will the Secretary of State publish in the Library of the House the amount that each local authority has received under the existing funding formula and the amount that it will receive following today’s announcement?
Justine Greening
The hon. Lady has asked a range of questions. In summary, I have made it clear in my written statement today that no authority will lose funding either for schools or for high needs. This will enable us to give authorities a firm foundation on which to start planning for next year. The reality is that we have seen funding for schools and across education rising. This has been one of the areas that this Government and the coalition Government have sought to protect, and that has been evidenced in the results. We now have 1.4 million more children in good or outstanding schools, and we want that progress to continue.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
Schools in Staffordshire are among the lowest funded in the country, and that is a matter of great concern for the headteachers I met last week. We understood that we were moving to a fairer funding formula from 2017-18, but it now seems that it will happen a year later. Will the Secretary of State make it absolutely clear that there could be transitional funding for 2017-18 for those authorities that are in a desperate position, as Staffordshire is?
Justine Greening
I recognise the pressures that my hon. Friend has just set out. This now gives us time to look at how we can deal effectively with those issues. We should also recognise that, while some schools are disadvantaged by the current formula, there will also be changes for schools under the new formula, and this gives us a chance to work effectively with them to ensure that there is a sensible and measured transition from the historical approach to the fairer, sensible approach that we are introducing.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Prior to the Secretary of State’s appointment, the noises coming out of the Department for Education suggested that London schools, in particular, would be seriously hit by the changes to the funding formula. Schools in Harrow have been advised that they will face a real-terms budget cut of between 3% and 8% as a result of the changes that her Department is considering. Can she offer any reassurance to the headteachers and parents in my constituency that that will not be the case?
Justine Greening
I have set out the details in my statement today of how we are going to proceed. As the hon. Gentleman says, some schools will see a change in the funding they receive as a result of our evening up the system and making it fairer, and these are important changes. It is therefore right that we should give ourselves the time to ensure that we can be effective in helping schools to deal with the changes well through a steady transition.
Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)
Given the optimism that schools in Chippenham felt on hearing the announcement of a fairer funding formula to rectify the ludicrous situation in which Wiltshire pupils receive over £2,000 less than pupils in other areas, will the Secretary of State confirm her commitment to the people of Wiltshire, including the 8,000 who signed my fairer funding petition?
Justine Greening
I can indeed; we are going to get on with this funding formula. To tie my hon. Friend’s point together with that of the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), we now have a school funding system and a funding formula, but we also introduced the pupil premium, so we have additional mechanisms to ensure that the funding follows disadvantaged pupils with additional needs. We are now trying to get a system in place that is sensible about the core funding that schools receive and not based on frankly very old data. At the same time, the system should take account of the fact that we are able to top up through the pupil premium and other funding mechanisms when we particularly want to tackle disadvantage.
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Secretary of State confirm that, behind the warm words of fairer funding, school funding is still set to be cut by some 8% by 2020, as confirmed by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and that is coming at the same time as we see the threat of falling teacher numbers? Over a third of the children in this country currently leave school without five good GCSEs. Will she also confirm whether my local authority in Hounslow will see a funding cut? When will it know?
Justine Greening
I have been clear that no local authority will see a reduction in funding for 2017-18. My announcement today was clear that we will ensure that we have the time to bring in the fair funding formula effectively. The hon. Lady should not forget that, as I have set out, the introduction of the pupil premium means that we now have an additional £2.5 billion that will be specifically targeted to ensure that disadvantaged children get an additional top-up so that their schools can provide additional support.
Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)
I am delighted by the Secretary of State’s commitment to fair funding, which we clearly must get right, but I urge her to look urgently at transitional arrangements for counties such as West Sussex, which so desperately needs funding.
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend makes his point clearly. I assure him that we will look at a sensible approach for the transition period of 2017-18.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)
As a former Select Committee colleague, I am delighted to see the Secretary of State in her new place and congratulate her. I urge her not to follow the example of her two predecessors; she should build a strong relationship with headteachers and teachers.
Will the Secretary of State make it absolutely clear that the pupil premium, which is hugely important for targeting funding at the most disadvantaged, will be protected in real terms when the changes are actually made?
Justine Greening
I remember my time on the Work and Pensions Committee with the hon. Gentleman with real fondness; I very much enjoyed it and learned a lot over those years. He mentions headteachers and teachers, and one of the first things that I did upon coming into this role was to pick up the phone and call the teaching unions to introduce myself and to set up initial meetings. I saw them briefly yesterday and I hope that I can have a constructive, productive relationship. The most important people who helped me to get educated were my teachers, to whom I will be eternally grateful. It is important that that is recognised.
On the pupil premium, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the funding rates are protected for the entire spending review period at 2015-16 rates.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Like me, my right hon. Friend was educated in a comprehensive school in Rotherham, so I warmly welcome her to her new role. While we can adjust the school funding formula in the short term, does she agree that the only way to increase school resources in the long term is to have a strong and growing economy?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. I am proud that both of us went through the state school system in Rotherham. I hope to be able to go back up there in the coming weeks and months to revisit some of the schools that enabled me to have the education that gave me a platform to try to reach some of the goals that I set myself. As he says, a strong economy is vital for ensuring not only that we have the funding to invest in our education system, but that the children coming through our state school system have the opportunities to stretch themselves and to get the dignity of work.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)
I have written to the Secretary of State today and she will be receiving a letter shortly, so I hope that she will keep an eye out for it over the coming days.
Under the formula proposed by f40—the campaign for so-called fairer funding in schools—schools in north-east Lincolnshire suffer a £2.1 million cut, equivalent to over £100 per pupil a year. Does the Secretary of State agree that any formula that takes resources away from my constituency, in which no secondary school is currently rated outstanding, cannot be described as fair?
Justine Greening
I agree with the hon. Lady that, over time, the current formula had simply become out of date. It was based on statistics that needed to be updated but, in essence, could not be, so it was time to take a fresh look at how we could make it fair. Her second point about focusing our efforts on the remaining parts of the UK where our education system is simply not delivering for our children is vital, and I do plan to focus on this.
Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)
My constituency contains significant areas of deprivation where there is underperformance, particularly among white working-class boys. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that nothing in this formula will have an adverse impact on the urban and deprived areas in my constituency?
Justine Greening
I have set out how local authorities, including my hon. Friend’s, will not be seeing a reduction in funding for 2017-18. Targeting the parts of our country where children are just not getting the start they deserve and need in order to do well in life will be central to my efforts, alongside making sure that we continue to lift outcomes for children overall across the rest of the country.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
I warmly welcome the Secretary of State to her post and the other new Minister, the skills Minister, as well as some of the old team. I chair the advisory council of the Sutton Trust, and we look forward to working positively and creatively with the Secretary of State. May I remind her that England is a vast society that is changing all the time? Other Governments, including Labour Governments, have not cracked the problem of getting the funding to the right places at the right time, so will she consider having an independent group, even a commission, to look at this, year on year, month on month, so that we get it right? That is just a germ of an idea, but will she consider it, because we all get this wrong at some stage?
Justine Greening
I make two points in response to the hon. Gentleman’s important point. First, we have to make sure that although we set policy at the Whitehall level, we understand how best to ensure it can have the impact we seek at the individual child level. That is not always easy. We can learn from examples such as city deals, where local areas have taken ownership of physical infrastructure to make sure that there is a common plan that the Government nationally are investing in alongside a local plan. His point is a really strong one.
Secondly, I want my Department to be a central engine for social mobility more broadly. We need to challenge ourselves across government, and the Department for Education has a key role to play in this in saying that not only do we want children to be coming out of our schools better educated, but we want to make sure that the jobs and careers are there for them to be able to make the most of their potential. In the end, a country’s most important asset is its people, which is why I am so delighted I am in the job I am in.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
May I highlight to my right hon. Friend that Kettering has 8,879 primary places, rising to 9,677 by 2021, and 6,700 secondary places, rising to 7,637 by 2021? The county council says that all places will be full by the 2017-18 academic year. Will she ensure that when she looks at the issue of fairer funding, counties such as Northamptonshire and places such as Kettering, which have some of the fastest rates of house building in the whole country, get the funding they need to make sure we have enough school places for our children?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend raises the important issue that alongside many of the reforms we have introduced, a demographic shift is taking place which means we simply need to scale up our education system to keep pace with the number of children who need it. We have created 600,000 school places, but we need to do more. I assure him that the funding formula statement that I am setting out today means we are in a better position going forward as we introduce it to make sure fair funding follows the child, including in Kettering.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
I warmly congratulate the Secretary of State on her appointment, and she is absolutely right not to rush this, because getting the new formula wrong would be a disaster. The previous Under-Secretary, the hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah), offered at the Select Committee to meet me and my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), who is in his place, to discuss the case for a rapid pupil turnover factor in the new formula. Will she confirm that that offer still stands and let us know which member of her team that meeting should now be with?
Justine Greening
That offer does still stand. I will get back to the right hon. Gentleman when we have worked out which Minister will attend the meeting.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
Following on from my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), more and more parents in many parts of my constituency are finding it difficult to get their child into the school of their choice. Just to give one example, there is a desperate need for more secondary school places in Wharfedale in my constituency. May I ask the Secretary of State, whom I very warmly welcome to her new role, to look at the need for school places in the Shipley constituency and ensure that my parents can get their children into the school of their choice, because at the moment, for many of them, that is a distant dream?
Justine Greening
Again, this is an incredibly fundamental and important issue. I simply assure my hon. Friend that I am well aware of the need to ensure that, alongside all the other changes that are rippling through the education system, we have enough places for the children of our country, that we have enough teachers who can be in those classrooms teaching them, and that those teachers are outstanding and excellent and able to excite children in the classroom, help them learn and give them that best start in life.
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)
I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to her place. I am sure that she is looking forward to her appearances before the Education Committee, probably starting in the autumn.
Fairer funding inherently means a process of redistribution, and many schools, heads and governors whose budgets are already at the margins and who are possibly looking forward to a 1.5% per pupil cut will be looking at that with real trepidation, particularly if they are already in receipt of tight budgets. There is a great deal of social need in an awful lot of schools in constituencies such as mine. It is mainly a shire county appeal that has come from the f40, and an awful lot of schools in the inner cities are wondering whether they will be on the receiving end of a cut.
Justine Greening
I recognise what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I underline the rationale behind why we introduced the pupil premium in the first place, which was to address many of the points that he has made. His comments underline why I am setting out this statement today. It is a substantial change in funding for all schools and therefore, ultimately, we need to get it right.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to her role, and welcome the inclusion of skills in her brief, as it has been too far from the centre of education policy recently.
Following on from the question of my fellow Hounslow colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra), will implementation of fairer funding in Hounslow mean even greater cuts from 2018? Will the Secretary of State reassure the heads that we met a couple of weeks ago, as they are already having to make cuts to things such as A-level options, support for children with special needs, mental health counselling and support and so on?
Justine Greening
As I set out in my statement today, we will be launching a consultation on the detail of how we plan to introduce the funding formula. That will give both the hon. Lady and her local schools and teachers ample opportunity to be able to feed in their local perspective.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
Representing as I do a cross-borough constituency, I know the unfairness of the current system. It cannot be fair that a child from Reddish in Stockport receives less funding than a child from Denton in Tameside—areas that share the same socio-economic characteristics, but are in different local authorities. Will the Secretary of State’s new fairer funding formula ensure that those children in Reddish are not disadvantaged just because they are in a more prosperous borough overall, and that their funding will be matched to those of the children in Denton?
Justine Greening
I think that I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman that the funding formula will start to iron out those sorts of inequities. Once we launch the second phase consultation, he will be interested to see the criteria and characteristics that we will incorporate to help ensure that we have a fairer approach on funding for schools in the future than we have had in the past. I will also set out for him the architecture of what we are trying to achieve. If we want to overlay significant additional resources in relation to deprivation, we want to do it in a smarter way and we want to use things such as the pupil premium to do it effectively. We recognise that we also need to have an element of understanding about the attainment, the eligibility for free school meals and other characteristics in the core funding formula too.
Schools Funding
Justine Greening Excerpts(8 years, 4 months ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
The Government are firmly committed to introducing fairer funding for schools, high needs and early years. This is an important reform, which will fairly and transparently allocate funding on the basis of schools’ and children’s actual needs, rather than simply on historic levels of funding tied to out of date local information. Along with the record levels of funding for schools announced at the spending review, and our commitment to the pupil premium for pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds, a fairer funding system will set a common foundation that will enable schools—no longer held back by a funding system that is arbitrary, out of date and unfair—to maximise the potential of every child. It will provide a crucial underpinning for the education system to act as a motor for social mobility and social justice.
The first stage consultations on national funding formulae for schools and high needs, which were published in March, have been met with an overwhelmingly positive response from headteachers, teachers, governors and parents.
There is also a strong sense in the response to the first stage of the consultation that this is a once in a generation opportunity for an historic change and that we must get our approach right. I will therefore publish the Government’s full response to the first stage of the schools and high needs consultations and set out my proposals for the second stage once Parliament returns in the autumn. We will run a full consultation, and make final decisions early in the new year. Given the importance of consulting widely and fully with the sector and getting implementation right, the new system will apply from 2018-19. I will set out our full plans for a national funding formula for early years shortly.
In the meantime, I understand the need for local authorities to have sufficient information to begin to plan their schools and high needs funding arrangements for 2017 to 2018. Many of those who responded to the first stage national funding formula consultations emphasised that schools and local authorities need stability, and where there are changes need early notice, as well as a fair system.
In that context, I am confirming that in 2017-18 no local authority will see a reduction from their 2016-17 funding (adjusted to reflect authorities’ most recent spending patterns) on the schools block of the dedicated schools grant (per pupil funding) or the high needs block (cash amount). As usual, we will apply an uplift for high needs later in the year. I am also publishing today detailed funding tables so that authorities can see exactly how this funding has been calculated.
Final allocations for schools and high needs blocks will follow in December on the basis of pupil numbers recorded in the October census.
I am setting this out now so that local authorities can begin the process of setting the budgets of schools in their area and that this can be concluded in time for the start of the coming financial year.
I am also confirming that, for 2017-18, we will retain the current minimum funding guarantee for schools, so that no school can face a funding reduction of more than 1.5% per pupil next year in what it receives through the local authority funding formula. To ensure that local authorities can start planning their budgets for next year with certainty, I do not intend to proceed, for 2017-18, with proposals to create a new central schools block, allow local flexibility on the minimum funding guarantee or to ring-fence the schools block within the dedicated schools grant. These will be covered, for 2018-19 and beyond, in my response to the first stage consultation in the autumn.
I will shortly publish the Education Funding Agency’s operational guide to schools funding in 2017-18, and send the draft Authority Proforma Tool to authorities.
[HCWS98]
Higher Education and Research Bill
Justine Greening ExcerptsTuesday 19th July 2016
(8 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Higher Education and Research Act 2017 View all Higher Education and Research Act 2017 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Education (Justine Greening)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
As the Prime Minister said outside Downing Street last week, this Government want to give everybody, no matter what their background, the opportunity to go as far as their talents will take them, in a country that works for everyone. Our higher education institutions are crucial to giving people the power to determine their own futures. They present opportunities for individuals to better themselves—to broaden their knowledge base, sharpen their skills, and participate in the groundbreaking research that can make the future brighter for everyone.
My time at Southampton University was one of the most shaping periods of my life. I should point to my time at the Department for International Development as another of those periods. For me, the chance to go to university was absolutely pivotal to being able to make something of myself. Today, I can still point to the telephone box in Kingsbridge, Devon where I rang through to get my A-level results while we were on holiday that year. In that moment, my whole future changed for the better. I was the first person in my family to be able to go to university. I remember, after that call, going to the pub across the road to celebrate with a drink. None of us really knew what going to university would be like for me, but we all knew that it was going to be the best thing and that it would improve my life chances. Opportunity is about giving our young people the freedom to fly, and universities are absolutely central to that.
My party’s record on this in government is one we can be proud of. We have taken away the limit on student numbers so that more people than ever before can benefit from higher education, and the participation rate among students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds is at record levels. We have put in place the essential funding changes that have placed our universities on a stable financial footing so that they are resourced for success, and we have protected investment in our world-class science base.
The universities that our young people attend are some of the best in the world. We punch well above our weight, with 34 institutions ranked in the world’s top 200 and more than twice that number in the top 800. But there is more to do to make sure that everyone can access a high-quality university place, and in spite of the progress made, we are far from meeting our economy’s need for graduates, so this Government are absolutely determined to support and nurture our universities, and to ensure that they are open to every student who has the potential to benefit from them.
The creation of new universities is an undoubted force for good, both academically and economically. Recent research by the London School of Economics shows that doubling the number of universities per capita could mean a 4% rise in future GDP per capita too. However, the current system for creating universities can feel highly restrictive, with new providers requiring the backing of an incumbent institution to become eligible to award its own degrees. This Bill levels the playing field by laying the foundations for a new system where it will be simpler and quicker to establish high-quality new providers. I am pleased that in May the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) confirmed that the Opposition do not object to broadening choice for students by expanding the higher education sector.
These reforms, which are the first since the 1990s, enable us to maintain the world-class reputation of our higher education institutions, because quality will be built in at every stage—from the way we regulate new entrants to how we deal with poor-quality providers already in the system. I recognise that there have been concerns about the quality of new providers—that they cannot possibly be as good as what we already have. It is not the first time that such arguments have been made. The same arguments were made when the new red-brick universities were being established just before the first world war, but today Sheffield, Birmingham and Manchester—which I visited very recently in my previous role—are world-class universities. This “quality” argument was made about the 1960s expansion, but in four of the past 10 years the Sunday Times award for university of the year has gone to one founded in that very period—currently the University of Surrey. In 1992, it was a Conservative Government who had the vision to set free the polytechnics to enable them to become universities. Now we are making it possible for a whole new generation of universities to help us to extend access to higher education for young people across our country.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to her new position and look forward to working with her over, I hope, the next few years. Does she agree that one aspect of the post-war universities and the post-1992 polytechnics was that students were not asked to contribute fees in order to receive a university education?
Justine Greening
I acknowledge that the Scottish National party takes a very different view of this issue. The reality is that the choice that it has made has resulted in fewer students being able to go to university in Scotland. One in five students in Scotland who apply for, and who have the grades to get, a place cannot go because the funding is not available. The hon. Lady’s Government in Scotland have made that choice, but it is not a choice that this Government want to make. We have to make sure that places are available for students who have the potential and talent to make their way in life. Putting a cap on opportunity and potential is not just bad for students; it is bad for our country more broadly.
Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con)
First, may I congratulate my right hon. Friend on assuming her new role? She has been an outstanding advocate for greater social mobility in every role she has had in frontline politics, and I am delighted to see her in this job.
Is it not the case that, following the introduction of fees, we have seen more students from working class and poorer backgrounds go to university in England and Wales, while in Scotland educational inequality has worsened, to the extent that the First Minister of Scotland had to sack her Education Secretary in despair at the way in which inequality was growing north of the border?
Justine Greening
Since 2009, students from a disadvantaged background in England are 36% more likely to go to university. It is not good enough to come up with excuses and tell young people of great quality who have the grades that they cannot go to university because the Government who, unfortunately, are running the country in which they live are not prepared to take the decisions to enable funding to get to the sector and create the places that they need. We are prepared to do that.
The Bill is about opening up the sector to enable new providers to enter it and create the extra places that our young people need. There will be rigorous tests for those new providers, as well as for those that already exist, centring on quality and making sure that they have financial stability. We are interested in enhancing the world-class reputation of our universities in creating opportunity for all, rather than in expansion for its own sake.
Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way and offer her huge congratulations on her new role. Does she agree that the new university side of the Bill will lead us into a new era of focusing much more on gearing up our students for the workplace and on linking with business to provide the exact courses required to upskill our people for the future?
Justine Greening
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The good news is that we expect many—indeed, most—of the jobs created over the next few years to be graduate-level jobs. Our economy is creating opportunities, but we need to make sure that our young people are in a position to take them. That is part of the reason why this Bill is absolutely critical. Wherever and whatever a person is studying, part of how they are able to succeed is making sure that they get high-quality teaching. That is why we are delivering on the Government’s manifesto pledge to implement a new teaching excellence framework for universities.
Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab)
May I also congratulate the right hon. Lady on her new job? I was also the first in my family to go to university. Ashfield, which I represent, has among the lowest number of 18-year-olds in the whole country going to university. The Secretary of State says that she wants to see opportunities for people from ordinary backgrounds, but how is scrapping grants for the poorest kids going to help?
Justine Greening
The bottom line is that the evidence base shows not only that more young people are going to university than ever before, but that a higher proportion of them are from disadvantaged backgrounds. As I said to the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan), we do our young people a disservice if our system cannot be financed to create places for them.
Several hon. Members rose—
Justine Greening
I am going to make some progress, because it is important that I cover the teaching excellence framework, which is at the heart of the Bill.
The framework will assess and drive up quality by providing reputational and financial incentives for success, which is a proven approach to ensuring high standards at our universities. That approach is based on what we have learned from our experience. It was a Conservative Government who introduced funding for research on the basis of quality, which is now a widely accepted way of working. The research excellence framework is regarded globally as the gold standard for institutional research. By extending that principle to teaching, we can ensure that British higher education remains in the world’s elite, and that students at all universities—old and new—receive the quality teaching that they have every right to expect.
Let me be absolutely clear: the Bill does not raise tuition fees or change current procedures for secondary legislation setting the maximum tuition fee cap. That will, rightly, continue to require the same level of parliamentary scrutiny as before, and the Bill will allow the maximum fee cap to keep pace with inflation, which the last Labour Government allowed for every year from 2007. What we are saying to high-quality providers is, “You can access fees up to an inflation-linked maximum fee cap if—and only if—you can demonstrate that you are providing high-quality teaching and you have an agreed access and participation plan in place.”
The Bill allows fee caps to be set below the maximum, to reflect varying levels of teaching excellence framework awards. The providers that are not meeting those standards will have to charge fees beneath the maximum fee cap, and that cap will not increase in real terms.
Our proposal to maintain the real value of the maximum fee cap, but only for those with excellent teaching, is backed by those who know the sector best. Universities UK has described that approach as “balanced and sustainable” and argues that maintaining the real value of the maximum fee cap is
“essential to allow universities to continue to deliver a high-quality teaching and learning experience for students.”
Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)
I congratulate the Secretary of State on her appointment. I am sure that she is as shocked as I am that vice-chancellors are welcoming the opportunity to put up university tuition fees. Does she agree that many students and graduates who have gone through that £9,000 system do not feel that that level of tuition fee has been justified and that they have not seen the benefits of the decision that this House took some years ago?
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. The real-terms ability of the maximum fee to keep up with inflation is enabling £12 billion of investment to get into higher education over the coming years. It is critical to make sure that students get value from the investment that they make in themselves and that teaching is of high quality. That is why the teaching excellence framework is such an important part of the Bill.
The proposed office for students is another part of the Bill that clearly shows that we are putting students at the heart of our higher education policy, as they should be. The creation of an office for students, which will be the principal regulator for higher education, will put students’ interests at the heart of regulation. It will have a legal duty requiring it to consider choice and the interests of students, employers and taxpayers, and it will look across higher education as a whole, with responsibility for monitoring financial stability, efficiency and the overall health of the sector.
The current system was designed for an era of direct Government funding of higher education when fewer people attended university. Higher education attendance is no longer a privilege of the elite. We lifted the limit on student numbers, meaning that more people than ever before have been able to benefit from a university education. The legislative framework needs to reflect that.
The office for students will create a new single register of higher education providers, replacing the current fragmented system and ensuring a single route into the sector. The simpler system means that this Bill will reduce regulatory costs on the sector and contribute to this Government’s deregulatory agenda. It also ensures that the requirements are clear and fair. Only those on the single register will be able to obtain degree-awarding powers, become universities or charge fees that attract student loans. Those providers will have to comply with conditions relating to, for example, their financial stability and the quality of their provision. The office for students will have powers to impose additional conditions—for instance, around access and participation for students from disadvantaged backgrounds—on fee-capped providers that wish their students to be able to access student support.
Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)
Let me join in the congratulations to the Secretary of State on her appointment. Why is there no duty on the new office for students to promote collaboration? The crisis that we confront in this country is around technical education, not higher education. If we want to grow the number of students on level 5 apprenticeships, we need to transform the level of integration and collaboration that exists between further education and higher education. Why is that dual-track system not being encouraged by placing a duty to collaborate at the heart of the office for students?
Justine Greening
I take the right hon. Gentleman’s point, which is an important one. I want universities to continue to work hard on the ground in many of the local communities of which they are part, to encourage a pipeline through which children can come and apply. If the percentage of university students from disadvantaged backgrounds is to rise, that is incredibly important.
The right hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that an element of the Bill tackles collaboration, specifically with UK Research and Innovation, which I will come on to shortly. There will also be time to debate this in the Bill Committee. I absolutely agree with the sentiment that he has expressed, and it is important that universities engage with local communities beyond their own campuses and encourage young people.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to her new post. Before she moves off the subject of collaboration, I am disappointed that there is no mention in the Bill of collaboration with the new combined authorities, especially those, such as the one in Greater Manchester, that are to take on some of the skills agenda. What role does she think local government and local enterprise partnerships have in making sure that higher education is part and parcel of that partnership for a better local economy?
Justine Greening
I agree with the hon. Gentleman that those different parties have to work together at a local level. The University of Roehampton, in my constituency, does really great work in reaching out to our local community. As a higher education institution, it has a large proportion of students from more disadvantaged backgrounds studying for degrees. He is right about that. I am determined to make sure that the higher education sector plays its role in communities more broadly. I do not believe that collaboration necessarily has to be codified in the Bill, as he suggested, for it to happen, but I agree with the sentiments that he expressed.
Several hon. Members rose—
Justine Greening
I want to make a little more progress, because it is important that I continue to inform the House of how the office for students will work, and particularly how it will regulate providers.
If a provider breaches its conditions of registration, the OFS will have access to a range of sanctions, including monetary penalties and, in extreme cases, suspending or deregistering providers, to safeguard the interests of students and taxpayers and to maintain the world-class reputation of the sector. Our proposals have the support of those who know best, with the likes of Professor Simon Gaskell, chair of a taskforce that was established to review the regulation of the sector, commenting that
“there have been a number of significant changes to the funding of higher education and to the number of providers offering courses. Regulation of the sector needs to keep pace with these developments if confidence, and our international reputation, are to be maintained.”
Indeed, only today the University Alliance described the Bill as
“a raft that can take us to calmer waters”.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
The Secretary of State has emphasised the need for collaboration. Clause 2(1)(b) mentions
“the need to encourage competition between English higher education providers…in the interests of students and employers”.
She has identified that collaboration is in the interests of students and employers, so why is she objecting to putting it in the Bill?
Justine Greening
I feel as though we are already delving into the Bill Committee debate that will no doubt take place on this clause. I welcome the House’s engagement with the Bill. It is important to get it right, and we will have an important debate to make sure that it is properly structured. I look forward to the Bill Committee debate when Parliament returns after the recess.
Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Roger Mullin
I welcome the Secretary of State to her new post, and I look forward to her future briefings on the Scottish education system being more accurate. May I provide some insight into one aspect of collaboration, which could usefully be strengthened? Twenty-five per cent. of all students who enter higher education in Scotland do so through the college sector, and many colleges are in collaborative arrangements with universities. We have 2+2 arrangements, as we call them—two years in college, and two years in university—and so on. That is something that the English system could well have a look at.
Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman makes a further point about the need for universities to be part of their broader communities. It is probably worth my setting out how much I welcome the fact that the further and higher education briefs are now part of a broader Department for Education brief, which makes us well placed to look across the piece at how the institutions that help to develop our young people’s talent and potential can work effectively together, as well as with broader communities.
Thanks to the reforms we introduced in the last Parliament, the entry rate for young students from disadvantaged backgrounds is at a record level. In the final year of the last Labour Government it was around 14%, and today it stands at almost 19%. But we need to go further. As the Prime Minister said last week, this Government
“will do everything we can to help anybody, whatever your background, to go as far as your talents will take you.”
This legislation supports the key principle that higher education should be open to all who have the potential to benefit from it, but this has to be about more than just accessing opportunity. Although application rates for students from disadvantaged backgrounds are at record levels, we want to ensure that those students are supported across their whole time at university. Too many disadvantaged students do not complete their courses, for various reasons, and universities can and must do more to help them to get across the finishing line. That will allow them not only to gain the degree that they set out to get, but to reap the career rewards of doing so.
Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)
I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State on her new position. What does she think is an acceptable level of debt for a graduate?
Justine Greening
We need to look at the level of tuition fees that has been introduced, the rate of applications from disadvantaged students, and the number of disadvantaged students who are going to university. Those young people are taking a decision to invest in themselves, and they believe that it will offer value for money. The Bill will enable us to strengthen that decision by underwriting the teaching in universities with a teaching excellence framework.
Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend to her position, and I look forward to working with her. We have had much discussion of disadvantaged young people, but how will she encourage participation among mature disadvantaged groups, particularly women? There has been a large drop-off in the number of women part-time students. What progress can we make in that area, particularly in the teaching, nursing and caring professions, which women often go into after they have had their families?
Justine Greening
There are two areas in which the Bill can particularly help. First, it will provide transparency and give us a clearer sense of who is entering and going through our university system. One of the functions of the office for students will be to improve transparency, which will help us not only to improve access but to widen participation. Secondly, some of the financing changes will free up opportunities for people who find it harder to go to university because they cannot get the finance for a course. The Bill will allow us to take those two steps forward.
We are going further than Labour ever did to strengthen access agreements. Under the Bill, institutions wanting to charge tuition fees above the basic level will have to agree plans that look at participation as well as at access. We want to ensure they are doing everything they can to support students from disadvantaged backgrounds throughout their course to reduce the number of drop-outs and help all students into fulfilling careers.
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
I join other hon. Members in welcoming the Secretary of State to her new post. On enabling students to access higher education, there is one group that has not been able to access it—Muslim students whose religious beliefs prevent them from taking out a loan. I know she will point to the new provisions in the Bill on sharia-compliant loans, but why does she believe that this specifically requires legislation? Many of these students have been waiting years, if not decades, to be able to go to university. Why is she making them wait even longer?
Justine Greening
The Bill puts in place the powers that we need to take a more flexible approach to funding. As the hon. Lady says, some students are less likely to want to take out a conventional student loan. We need to respond to that if we are to widen participation, and that is precisely what the Bill does. It will actually achieve the aims she talks about.
We will have transparency, which will require higher education institutions to publish application, offer and progression rates by gender, ethnic background and socioeconomic class. Across all its functions, the office for students will have to take into account the need to promote equality of opportunity across the whole lifecycle for disadvantaged students, not just access.
Academic autonomy is the bedrock of success for our higher education sector. The Bill introduces measures to safeguard the interests of students and taxpayers, while protecting academic freedom and institutional autonomy. It enables the OfS to be independent of Government and the sector, as a regulator should be. It will be an arm’s length non-departmental public body, just as the Higher Education Funding Council for England is now.
The office for students will operate a risk-based approach to regulation by concentrating regulation where it is needed and ensuring the highest standards are maintained across the sector, while reducing the regulatory burden on the best performing institutions. If a university is doing well, it should not have to worry so much about bureaucrats peering over its shoulder.
However, one important aspect of such risk-based regulation will be a more flexible approach to degree-awarding powers. We will move away from the one-size-fits-all approach, which currently requires smaller, specialist institutions to demonstrate that they can award degrees in any subject, and requires new providers—including some of the very best overseas institutions—to spend four years building up a track record in England, irrespective of a long record of excellence elsewhere in the global academic world.
The provision to vary degree-awarding powers will enable specialist institutions to gain such powers only in the subject areas in which they have an interest or a need. It will enable the office for students to give degree-awarding powers on a probationary basis to institutions that can clearly demonstrate their capability and have a credible plan to ensure they meet the full degree-awarding powers criteria after three years. As part of that, the OfS will require clear and robust protections for students when granting probationary degree-awarding powers.
Liam Byrne
The Secretary of State is being characteristically generous in giving way. Is it her expectation that many of our great further education colleges that are already providing higher education will be able to acquire their own degree-awarding abilities, in a much more generous way than is currently possible, as a result of this change?
Justine Greening
Broadly, the rule that 55% of students need to be studying on degree courses will remain. In the end, however, what we are trying to do more broadly with these changes is to open up the chance for new high-quality institutions to join existing high-quality institutions in our higher education sector in being able to offer degrees.
Wes Streeting
The Secretary of State is being very generous in giving way for a second time. She may not have seen the policy advice, but a briefing was caught on a long-lens camera outside No. 10 back in April. It said that the Government’s plans risk
“creating poor quality provision for marginal students”.
What is she going to do to mitigate that risk?
Justine Greening
The Bill is about ensuring that we have a strong, robust, successful, innovative and high-quality higher education sector for Britain’s young people. The hon. Gentleman sets out problems and then suggests we should not bring forward a Bill to tackle them.
Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)
It strikes me that the Secretary of State is giving a lot of good detail on the safeguards, which should satisfy most reasonable people. Others may feel there is something of a closed shop on degree-awarding powers, and I am very glad that the Bill will, among other things, do its best to break it down. Such a closed shop is unacceptable, particularly in relation to global education provision, which, as she says, we benefit from and can push out to other parts of the world.
Justine Greening
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. For the many institutions that have spent years working steadily to get their own degree-awarding powers, these changes will be welcome. They should not have to wait so long, and once the Bill is passed, they will not have to do so.
Mark Field
I suspect institutions that have spent many years trying to get degree-awarding powers and have not quite got them will feel that they have spent a frustratingly long time doing so. None the less, I am sure this provision will be welcomed in the years to come by many of the institutions she is talking about.
Justine Greening
I will make a bit more progress, because I recognise that many hon. Members want to contribute to this debate. I will give way in a second, but it is important that I briefly set out for the House how the OfS will be able to act when students and taxpayers are not well served. When there are grounds to suspect a serious breach of a provider’s conditions of registration or funding, the office for students will have the power to enter and search a higher education provider, subject to the crucial safeguard that a court warrant must be obtained first.
Justine Greening
I will give way to the hon. Gentleman because he has been trying to catch my eye, but I must then try to make some progress on this long Bill.
Mr Cunningham
I have two universities in my constituency. What did the Secretary of State mean when she said that other institutions can share in these changes? I was not clear what she meant.
Justine Greening
I was talking about the changes to degree-awarding powers. For institutions that may currently feel they cannot go down this route because it is simply too complex and long-winded, we will open up the sector to enable great institutions to step up to become, over time, an institution that awards degrees directly and then for excellent institutions to become, after a further three years, a university. This is important for Britain. If we are to be a country in which our young people have the number of places they want at high-quality institutions, with the range of different degrees that they want and that our economy needs, it is important to have a higher education sector that can respond and that is what the Bill seeks to address.
The Bill enables the OfS to require registered higher education providers to have a student protection plan in place. Students will want to know what to expect from their providers if their course of study cannot be delivered. Although some providers currently have student protection plans, the new requirement means that students of all registered providers will be protected.
This Government believe that no one with the necessary ability should be denied a place at university. That is why, for the first time ever, we are providing direct financial support for those undertaking postgraduate masters study. We also intend to extend direct financial support to postgraduate doctoral study and to introduce part-time maintenance loans comparable to those we give to full-time students.
The Bill will make significant improvements to higher education and research, but let me reassure the House that none of these changes will be delivered by undermining other routes into highly skilled employment. We are committed to creating 3 million apprenticeships by 2020, and the Government recently launched the skills plan, which is our response to Lord Sainsbury’s independent review of technical education, setting out an ambitious overhaul of the post-16 skills system. Taken as a whole, those changes will allow young people to make well-informed decisions about their futures, giving them every opportunity to achieve their potential and, at the same time, improving the quality, relevance and value of learning.
I have talked a lot today about teaching and students, but the UK is also a world leader in research and innovation. Established and emerging economies alike look on in envy not just at the quality and breadth of our research, but at our incredible track record of turning innovative ideas into life-changing, marketable products and services. The Government are protecting science resource funding at its current level of £4.7 billion, which will rise in cash terms every year for the rest of the Parliament. At the same time, we are investing in new scientific infrastructure on a record scale, delivering on the £6.9 billion science capital commitment in our manifesto.
Few people understand the research landscape better than the Nobel prize-winning geneticist Sir Paul Nurse. Aside from being an inspirational example of how social mobility can happen in our country, last year he completed an independent review of our seven research councils, recommending that the seven existing bodies be brought together into a single body. The Bill will make his recommendation of
“a formal organisation…which can support the whole system to collectively become more than the sum of its parts”
a reality.
Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)
Coventry University, Birmingham City University and the University of Wolverhampton recently launched a partnership to bring together their applied research and training expertise. Will the Secretary of State ensure that the measures in the Bill to implement Paul Nurse’s recommendations support such innovative collaboration, so that, as she says, the public investment in our research can add up to more than the sum of its parts?
Justine Greening
The Bill will help in two ways. Not only will it naturally bring the research councils together under one umbrella organisation; it will give that organisation a much more powerful voice when developing links with the business community. I know from the time I spent in industry before entering the House that the link in Britain between academia and research and business is a strong one, but one that can be strengthened further. As we consider how our country will be successful as we navigate through the Brexit process, making the most not only of our young people’s talents, but of our most world-class research institutions and the brains within them will be key.
The Bill will bring into being a new body called UK Research and Innovation that will strengthen the strategic approach to future challenges, while maximising the value of the Government’s investment of more than £6 billion a year in research and innovation. UKRI will provide a strong, unified voice for the UK’s research and innovation funding system on the global stage, cementing Britain’s world-leading position. UKRI and the Office for Students will work closely together to ensure that there is a co-ordinated, strategic approach to the funding of teaching and research in England.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)
Welsh universities have traditionally had an awful deal out of the seven research councils structure. In 2014-15, we received 2% of the total budget, whereas our population share would demand at least 5%. Does the Secretary of State think that that 2% is fair for Welsh universities, and what will the new structure do to address the situation? Would it not be better to create four research councils for the four component parts of the British state and Barnett-ise the funding?
Justine Greening
The Bill is about strengthening our capacity to do world-beating research. The money will follow where the excellence is. I have no doubt that there is significant excellence in Wales. That is why there has been significant funding for some of our world-class research that is taking place in that part of the UK. The Bill is about enabling the seven research councils to add up to more, as Sir Paul Nurse said, by bringing them under one umbrella.
The Bill will ensure that the UK is equipped to carry out more multidisciplinary research and to better respond with agility and flexibility to the latest research challenges. By bringing Innovate UK into UKRI, we will harness the opportunities across business as well, so that business-led innovation and world-class research can better come together and translate our world-class knowledge into world-class innovation. Innovate UK will retain its individual funding stream and continue its support for business-led technology and innovation.
We are protecting in law, for the first time ever, the dual-support research funding system in England—a system that many people consider to have underpinned universities’ confidence to invest in long-term research and that has contributed to our well-deserved global reputation for excellence.
The formation of UKRI will provide crucial support during this period of change in our relationship with the European Union. As we face new challenges, we need a strong and unified voice to represent the interests of the research and innovation community across Government, across Europe and around the world.
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)
Unison, the union, has about 40,000 workers in higher education institutions, which represents a great range of staff. It is very concerned, as am I, that the vote to leave the European Union has produced real uncertainty that will create challenges in terms of funding, research, staffing and students. It asks a question that I would like to put to the Secretary of State: why is there a rush to do this? Should we not look at the new landscape, think very carefully and then decide what we should do?
Justine Greening
I do not agree with the hon. Lady, but I recognise the challenges that she talks about in making sure that the universities sector and the higher education sector more broadly come out of the process of Brexit stronger. That is why we are engaging in a structured way across Government and outside Government in sectors such as HE to ensure that we have a smart approach to taking Britain through the Brexit process. I refer her to the point that the University Alliance made earlier today about the Bill being
“a raft that can take us to calmer waters”.
The Bill is how we will provide the security, vision and direction for a strong higher education sector.
Justine Greening
I have taken an awful lot of interventions, but I must now make some progress and allow the debate to continue.
Our universities are world class and our researchers are world beating. That is because over the years, over the decades and over the centuries, they have evolved and adapted to face the challenges and changes of the world around them—the world that they do much to study, understand and explain. We have to make the bold moves that are needed to secure their success for many more years to come. These changes are about further unlocking and unleashing the talents of our people and our best brains. I want the young people of today and tomorrow to be given every opportunity to succeed. That is why I am proud to put the Bill before the House. I pay tribute to the Minister for Universities and Science, who has done so much work to get the Bill to this stage.
The Higher Education and Research Bill will put more information and more choice in the hands of students. It will promote social mobility so that every person in this country has the opportunity to make the most of themselves. It will boost productivity in the economy as we realise our future outside the European Union. It will enhance and cement our position in the world as leaders in groundbreaking research, and ensure that students and taxpayers receive value for money from their investment in education. It is the right thing to do and the smart thing to do.
The Prime Minister told us last week that
“together we will build a better Britain”.
I am clear that education has to be at the forefront of that. Our universities deserve the best, our students deserve the best and our researchers and innovators deserve the best, so that they can play their role in building that better Britain. The Bill will provide them with nothing less than the best, and I commend it to the House.