Antisocial Behaviour: Leyton and Wanstead
Diana Johnson Excerpts(1 week, 5 days ago)
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The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Mr Bailey) on securing this important debate and on his excellent speech. He is already demonstrating that he will be a doughty champion for his constituents, and I very much look forward to working with him and discussing this important topic over the months ahead.
I know my hon. Friend’s constituency a little and have spent a bit of time there. I know what an attractive part of east London it is, with many shops, restaurants and bars and a strong and vibrant community, so it is really concerning to hear what he says about the levels of antisocial behaviour. It is absolutely right that that is put in the context of 14 years of under-investment in local councils and public services.
Antisocial behaviour affects all our constituencies and has far-reaching consequences. It was good to hear the experiences of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my hon. Friend the Member for Reading Central (Matt Rodda)—this is happening in everyone’s constituency.
I want to start by saying unequivocally that any form of antisocial behaviour is unacceptable. It is not merely a low-level nuisance; it hits the poorest and most vulnerable communities hardest. If left unchecked, it leads to far more serious offending, which is why cracking down on antisocial behaviour is a top priority for this Government and a key part of our safer streets mission. This Government will ensure that we restore public trust in policing and local partners to tackle antisocial behaviour and create real, impactful change.
I turn to recent trends in antisocial behaviour. The crime survey for England and Wales shows that in the year ending March 2024, 35% of respondents personally witnessed or experienced antisocial behaviour in their local area. As my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead described in reference to his area, that includes groups hanging around on the streets, vehicle-related ASB and people using or dealing drugs. Those were the most common types of antisocial behaviour reported. Sadly, that figure has gradually risen by 7% in the past decade. We must aim to reduce those statistics significantly through the consistent joined-up work of police and local partners. I was pleased to hear about the local leadership provided by the police and the council in my hon. Friend’s constituency, and how that was working well.
As my hon. Friend will know, this Government have committed to five core missions that seek to address some of the fundamental challenges society will face over the next 10 years. The safer streets mission will tackle serious crime: it will halve violence against women and girls, halve knife crime, and restore confidence in policing and the criminal justice system. It is focused on addressing both harm and confidence in parallel, by taking a whole-system approach.
Tackling antisocial behaviour is at the heart of the safer streets mission. It will rebuild confidence through the investment in neighbourhood police officers, who will be at the forefront of the fight against antisocial behaviour. The past decade has seen a decline in neighbourhood policing to such an extent that many of the bonds of trust and respect between the police and local communities have sadly been lost. We are going to bring back neighbourhood policing, ensuring that thousands of additional officers are out patrolling in our town centres and communities as part of our mission to make the streets safer.
Through the new neighbourhood policing guarantee, we will ensure every community has a named police officer to turn to. We also want to ensure neighbourhood policing is protected. I note very carefully what my hon. Friend said about levels of abstraction and how that can affect neighbourhood policing. We recognise that no single agency can reduce antisocial behaviour alone. Achieving the goal we have set ourselves will rely on the police, local authorities, charities and the health service working effectively together. There are lots of examples across the country where that already happens. Agencies at the local level are best placed to understand what is driving the behaviours in question and the impact it is having, and to determine the most appropriate response.
We will legislate to ensure that antisocial behaviour powers are as effective as they need to be to tackle repeat offending. I reflect on the fact that under the coalition Government we saw a downgrading in the antisocial behaviour powers available to the police and councils. My hon. Friend talked about the Government’s plans to introduce respect orders to help ensure that persistent adult antisocial behaviour offenders are banned from public areas where they are causing harm to communities. These changes are long overdue. I look forward to further addressing the House about respect orders in the months to come.
I want to talk about victims of antisocial behaviour and refer to the recently published report by the Victims’ Commissioner, Baroness Newlove, called “Still Living a Nightmare”. The helpful and insightful report looked at the experiences of victims of persistent antisocial behaviour, and highlighted a number of recommendations for the Government, including on improving the identification of persistent antisocial behaviour, support for victims and improved utilisation of the antisocial behaviour case review.
As we know, the case review gives victims the right to request a review of their case and brings agencies together to take a joined-up approach to finding a solution for the victim. It is vital that we enhance collaboration and communication between statutory agencies to create a holistic approach to dealing with antisocial behaviour. I am carefully considering Baroness Newlove’s recommendations and what more we can do to support victims of antisocial behaviour.
I was particularly struck by what my hon. Friend said about how members of his community do not feel safe to report issues and about how they feel that the drug dealers have taken over their streets and are in control. That worries me a great deal, and it worries me especially that people do not feel safe to report, because reporting on issues is just so important.
I wish to say something about drugs, because my hon. Friend talked a lot about the problems around drugs. Again, tackling those problems is not something policing can do on its own. I recognise that tackling illegal drugs must be a key part of delivering the Government’s mission to make our streets safer. We know from the Crime Survey for England and Wales that people using or dealing drugs is in the top three antisocial behaviour issues that residents most commonly think is a problem in their area. I was particularly concerned to hear about what was happening on the Avenue Road estate.
It is clear that half of all crimes, such as shoplifting and burglary, are driven by drugs, which is why the Government are determined to crack down on antisocial behaviour and drug misuse. The police have a critical role to play in this area. Where individuals are found in possession of drugs, they must face appropriate sanctions. We are working with the police and the National Police Chiefs’ Council to support voluntary referrals into treatment. We firmly believe that diverting those who use illegal drugs into interventions such as drug treatment services is key to reducing drug misuse, drug-related crime and reoffending. We support the use of drug testing on arrest and out-of-court resolutions to ensure that individuals who commit drug and related offences are given the opportunity to change their behaviour and to be diverted into meaningful and appropriate interventions.
I was pleased to hear from my hon. Friend about Project ADDER, which we know expanded to Waltham Forest in March this year. He also told us that the police in Leyton are using powers to tackle drug misuse and related offending. Through Project ADDER, police in Waltham Forest are using proactive operations to close county lines and disrupt organised criminal gangs. I also noted what my hon. Friend said about operations that seem to work in one area, but when resources are moved on, people resume the activities in which they were previously engaged, so I am very well aware that we need to address that.
I also note that Leyton is piloting community protection notices, which will include, in appropriate cases, a new mandatory positive requirement for individuals to attend drugs awareness programmes to tackle drug-related antisocial behaviour. That means that the police and local authorities can require that attendance to change behaviour, and if the individual does not attend, that can result in an arrest.
Beyond enforcement, we know that treatment works to reduce reoffending. Giving offenders greater access to treatment services helps to break the underlying causes of their reoffending and increases public safety. We are committed to ensuring that anyone with a drug problem can access the help and support that they need, and we recognise the need for evidenced-based, high-quality treatment. Prevention of drug and alcohol-related harm is vital to saving lives and making our streets safer.
I am delighted that the public health Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), is on the Treasury Bench this evening, because I know that he is particularly interested in this whole area of drug and alcohol treatment. The Department of Health and Social Care is continuing to invest in improvements to local treatment services, particularly for children and young people, as well as adults with drug or alcohol problems, to ensure that those in need can access high-quality help and support. In addition to the public health grant, the DHSC has allocated local authorities a further £267 million in 2024-25 to improve the quality and capacity of drug and alcohol treatment and recovery, alongside £105 million that has been made available by various Government Departments to improve treatment pathways and recovery, and such things as housing and employment outcomes, which need to be part of the solution if we are to deal with people with drug and alcohol addictions.
I will conclude by repeating how grateful I am to my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead for bringing this debate to the House. Antisocial behaviour is a key issue for this Government, and we have a very ambitious programme to make our streets safer, restore neighbourhood policing—the bedrock of policing in this country—and reduce the misery that antisocial behaviour causes for victims and communities.
Question put and agreed to.
Oral Answers to Questions
Diana Johnson Excerpts(2 weeks ago)
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Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) (Lab)
The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
Like my hon. Friend, the Government value the role of peaceful protest as part of our proud democratic tradition. The Government regularly review the adequacy of existing legislation.
Bell Ribeiro-Addy
The right to protest, and the courage of people taking to the streets to demand change, have given us many of our cherished social advancements—from the suffragettes demanding votes for women to the Race Relations Act 1965—but the sheer number of powers to restrict protest is resulting in peaceful protesters being arrested and sentenced to lengthy periods in prison. The previous Government pushed through a range of such laws despite opposition from senior policing figures and from Members across all parties. When will a comprehensive review of the state of protest take place, with a view to repealing powers that unnecessarily restrict the right to peaceful protest?
Dame Diana Johnson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that important issue. As she knows, there will be post-legislative scrutiny of the legislation passed by the previous Government. As the previous Government agreed, it will be considered in due course.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
Recent footage of Metropolitan police officers saying that the description of Hezbollah as a terror group was a matter of “opinion” is alarming. The officers in question were deployed to a march in central London where support for Hezbollah was openly displayed, yet many offenders were only identified by photos on social media after the event. Will the Minister ensure that all officers are fully briefed on the proscribed status of Hezbollah, Hamas and other terrorist organisations, so that offenders are arrested on the spot, and not allowed to spew antisemitic hate on our streets?
Dame Diana Johnson
We are all clear that Hezbollah are a proscribed organisation. The police take great care when they police protests; there is a great deal of briefing for officers beforehand. However, the way that those protests are policed is operationally independent. I have been to see and talk to officers who are on the frontline at those protests, and I know that it is a difficult job. We should all say a big “thank you” for the work that they do. There have been many protests over the last 12 months that the police have dealt with, and many officers have had rest days cancelled to ensure adequate policing on our streets.
Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)
Southwark police officers recently told Bermondsey safety action group that they struggled to prevent or solve crime due to extraction duties, when they have to police repeat protests elsewhere in London. Does the Minister believe that the Met needs new powers to refuse permission for some repetitive protests in the capital, or should it use existing powers better to resolve and reduce extraction duties and increase safety in my community?
Dame Diana Johnson
Police numbers are an issue, which is why this Government are clear about recruiting more neighbourhood police officers to increase that presence on our streets. I recognise that what my hon. Friend has said about extraction is an issue for the Metropolitan police in particular when dealing with protests. Clearly, we want all criminals to be dealt with by the police, and we need sufficient numbers of police officers to do that.
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)
Although we respect and would protect the right to peaceful protest, antisemitic and Islamophobic offences have been reported at many recent protests. Those have contributed to an astonishing and shocking 25% increase in religiously aggravated hate crimes in this country, as was revealed last week. The Community Security Trust reports an almost 500% rise in antisemitic incidents, and Tell MAMA has recorded the highest ever number of anti-Muslim incidents. Can the Minister reassure us on what the Government will do to help the police continue to keep communities safe, and police protests in a way that does that?
Dame Diana Johnson
The figures that the hon. Lady sets out are shocking. This Government are clear that there is no place in our society for antisemitism or Islamophobia. There are already meetings about how we can tackle that rise. It is shocking and it will not be tolerated. In some recent protests, the police have clearly had a difficult job to do, but I commend their work to tackle antisemitism and Islamophobia. We know that the police take their responsibilities seriously and that they do so without fear or favour.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
The Government are of course committed to ensuring that the police have the resources that they need to tackle crime effectively. As I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, funding beyond this year, including for the Metropolitan Police Service, will be confirmed following the upcoming multi-year spending review.
Andrew Rosindell
Given the increasing pressures on the police service, does the Minister accept that officer morale, retention, recruitment and ability to solve crimes are severely compromised, with police officers overworked, underpaid and subjected to unprecedented rises in bureaucratic processes—often dealing with things that police do not traditionally deal with, such as mental health care and social work? [ Interruption. ] Will the Minister explain how the Government plan to address those critical issues, especially in terms of improving officer retention, recruitment, crime-solving capacity and the overwhelming levels of bureaucracy, so that constituents in Romford can feel safe in their own town again? [ Interruption. ]
Mr Speaker
Order. Mr Rosindell, you should know better. I did not cough twice for my own benefit—it was meant to be for yours.
Dame Diana Johnson
The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member of this House. He has supported 14 years of Conservative government that have left us coming into government with a criminal justice system, including policing, that is in grave difficulty. I take the point that he raises, but he needs to recognise the role that he and his party have played in getting us to this point. Our aim now is to recruit more police officers, as the Home Secretary has said, and to increase neighbourhood policing as the bedrock of policing in this country.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
We all want to see more funding for our police in Havering and Hackney and across London, but a reduction in crime would also help them. What conversations are Ministers having with mobile phone manufacturers to try to drive down phone snatches by people on bikes and reduce such street crime, which is really growing in London?
Dame Diana Johnson
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. Those conversations are ongoing; later this month, conversations will take place on what more can be done to ensure that the manufacturers take their responsibility seriously and do everything they can to stop the trade in parts, which is a particular issue with mobile phones.
Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab)
Alan Strickland (Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor) (Lab)
The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
As has been said a number of times this afternoon, the neighbourhood policing guarantee means 13,000 police officers, PCSOs and specials back on our streets to keep us all safe, after the reduction in police officer numbers of, I think, over 20,000 by the Conservative party.
Luke Taylor (Sutton and Cheam) (LD)
Jacob Collier (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)
Dame Diana Johnson
Again, there is the neighbourhood policing guarantee and, importantly for my hon. Friend, there will be a named police officer in the community so people know who to go to when they need assistance. That work is happening now and we are keen to see the first officers in place in the next few months.
Blake Stephenson (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)
Jack Abbott (Ipswich) (Lab/Co-op)
Dame Diana Johnson
As part of the spending review, we want to consider police funding in the round, including how police funding is allocated to forces. The sector, including the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners and the National Police Chiefs’ Council, is engaged in the process.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
Mr Paul Foster (South Ribble) (Lab)
Dame Diana Johnson
That is an important point, and we are actively exploring all ways that we can improve guidance around redaction, streamline current processes, make better use of technology, and ultimately reduce unnecessary burdens on the police and prosecutors, so that they can get on with their primary task of keeping the public safe and putting away criminals.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
The Home Secretary told the House that by ending the retrospective element of the duty to remove she was saving £7 billion in 10 years. The impact assessment assumes that all those subject to the duty would have remained in Britain at a cost to the Home Office, but in his letter to me her permanent secretary said that the sum included the cost of sending the same migrants to Rwanda. I wrote to the Home Secretary about that on 1 September and I have raised it with the Minister for Immigration in Westminster Hall, but I have not had an answer. Can she explain that double counting, and if she cannot, will she apologise for using that statistic in the House of Commons?
Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)
Given that the turnout for the Devon and Cornwall police and crime commissioner election in May was just 18%, will the Minister look to scrap that role and instead invest that money in proper community policing in rural constituencies such as mine of North Cornwall?
Dame Diana Johnson
The Government have no plans to scrap the role of police and crime commissioner. We think it is a valuable role that can enable the missions that this Government have set out to be enacted locally, including the safer streets mission. We need to work with the PCCs to make sure that mission happens in the different force areas around the country. PCCs also have a role to play with their other partners, local authorities and the voluntary sector.
Dr Marie Tidball (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
Noisy off-road bikes speed around neighbourhoods such as Chapeltown in my constituency, deliberately disturbing and intimidating residents. Will the Home Secretary commit to properly tackling off-road bikes by giving the police the right powers to crack down on this issue?
Dan Tomlinson (Chipping Barnet) (Lab)
I thank you, Mr Speaker, for making time for Back Benchers in the questions today. I rise to raise the issue of car theft in my constituency. Many hundreds of residents have had their cars stolen, and the police do not have the capacity to follow up. Next year, I am hosting a car theft summit in Chipping Barnet, and I invite the Minister to attend with me.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
After a bungled fraud investigation by Renault Crédit International, it, together with Renault-Nissan UK Ltd moved to seize the assets of a business in my constituency, Mackie Motors Brechin Ltd. This cost my constituent half a million pounds and 25% of his order book value. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the finer points of this clearly very dubious act by a UK bank?
Spice-spiked Vapes
Diana Johnson Excerpts(2 weeks, 6 days ago)
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The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) on securing this important debate. I have listened carefully to her contribution, as well as those of the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) and of my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Dr Cooper), and I very much share the concerns that have been expressed about this matter. As Minister for Policing, I am really keen to gain as full an understanding as possible of the threats to public safety, including ones such as this, so while the subject matter of this debate is deeply troubling, I am grateful that it has been brought before the House this evening for consideration. I am also appreciative of the research undertaken by Professor Pudney, which has helped to identify this issue. Home Office and health officials have met him to discuss his findings, and we continue to consider any emerging evidence on the harms of illicit drugs.
I will start by making some general comments about vapes. First, vapes containing Spice are illegal, and no one should be buying or using those products—I will say a little bit more about that later. The Government welcome adult smokers switching to vaping as part of their efforts to give up smoking, but discourage the use of vaping by children and non-smokers. As the chief medical officer, Professor Sir Chris Whitty, has said,
“If you smoke, vaping is much safer; if you don’t smoke, don’t vape; marketing vapes to children is utterly unacceptable.”
The law currently protects children through restricting sales of nicotine-inhaling vapes to over-18s only, limiting nicotine content, labelling requirements and advertising restrictions. The Department of Health and Social Care is providing £3 million in funding over two years specifically to enhance the work led by National Trading Standards to tackle underage and illicit vape sales. However, non-nicotine vapes and other nicotine products such as nicotine pouches have much lower levels of regulation, and current levels of youth vaping and the targeting of products at children mean that further restrictions are needed.
That is why, as the hon. Member for Bath referred to, the Government will be introducing the tobacco and vapes Bill to address the high rates of youth vaping, alongside measures to make the UK smokefree. That Bill includes landmark policies to protect our children from the harms of vaping and the risk of nicotine addiction. Among other things, the Bill will stop vapes and nicotine products from being deliberately branded for, and advertised to, children; introduce a minimum age of sale of 18 for non-nicotine vapes and nicotine products to ensure they cannot be sold to children; ban the free distribution of vaping and nicotine products; and provide the Government with regulation-making powers to restrict flavours, point-of-sale displays and packaging for all vaping and nicotine products.
The measures in the Bill are intended to bring about definitive and positive change to stop future generations from becoming hooked on nicotine while ensuring that vapes can remain a means by which adult smokers can quit. However, I note the proposals for amending that Bill that the hon. Member for Bath has put forward. I am very happy to take those proposals away and discuss them with officials, as well as share them with the public health Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), because this is his Bill—he will be bringing it forward. I hope the hon. Lady will allow me to give her my assurance that all the issues she has raised will be considered.
Tessa Munt (Wells and Mendip Hills) (LD)
Can the Minister confirm that the new Bill will take the age limit at which people can use cigarettes up gradually, as was proposed previously, and whether vaping will be caught in the same path? The Minister has referred to children, but children eventually become young adults and then adults themselves, and we need to prevent vaping from being an alternative. It just needs to be stopped.
Dame Diana Johnson
Again, I emphasise that the Bill is not within the Home Office’s purview; it is a DHSC measure. I will ask the Minister for Public Health to respond to the hon. Member for Wells and Mendip Hills (Tessa Munt) because I am not yet sighted on the whole Bill.
As the hon. Member for Bath said, the addition of Spice to some vapes is particularly concerning. Spice is a street name for synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists, or SCRAs. Other brand names are also associated with SCRAs, such as Black Mamba. However, despite the suggestion of a link in the term “synthetic cannabinoid”, there is no relationship between SCRAs and the cannabis plant.
Let me be clear: vapes containing SCRAs are illegal. Most SCRAs, including Spice, are controlled as class B drugs via a generic definition under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The import, production or supply of a class B drug carries a maximum sentence of up to 14 years’ imprisonment, an unlimited fine or both. Although legislation is in place, with punitive sanctions to tackle offences, including the supply of SCRAs, there is something particularly concerning about the attempt by some criminals to peddle vapes containing SCRAs that are designed to appeal to children. I want to talk about what we can do to deal with that. The hon. Member made some suggestions.
I am sure that we agree that early drug use significantly increases exposure to health and social harms, including substance use disorder or dependency later in life. One of the most effective approaches to preventing drug misuse and risky behaviour is through empowering and building resilience in children and young people.
Health education is a compulsory subject in schools and is taught as part of the relationships, sex and health education curriculum. Health education includes content on drugs, alcohol and tobacco. As with other aspects of the curriculum, schools have flexibility about how they deliver these subjects, so that they can develop an integrated approach that is sensitive to the needs and background of their pupils. For example, in areas where there are significant problems with drugs or vapes, a school can choose to dedicate more time to this topic.
The hon. Member may know that the relationships, sex and health education curriculum is currently being reviewed, and, as part of that, the Department for Education will explore whether any more content on this subject is required. The Education Secretary has said that children’s wellbeing must be at the heart of the RSHE guidance and has committed to looking carefully at the public consultation responses and considering the relevant evidence before setting out next steps to take the guidance forward.
In respect of vapes specifically, the Department for Education and the Department of Health and Social Care have taken a number of steps to increase the training resources and support available for teachers and schools. They have updated the curriculum to include the health risks of vaping and published new online content on the potential risks of vaping for young people. I noted carefully what the hon. Member said about parents as well as young people needing to be educated, and also about politicians needing to have that education.
Wera Hobhouse
I was a secondary school teacher before I came to this House, and I know how difficult it is to teach properly in lessons that are often after the normal school time. Of course, this is one of the things we can do, but it clearly needs a targeted campaign. Does the Minister not agree that this problem is so alarming that we need to look at a dedicated campaign, rather than leaving it to lessons that I know reach some, but not many, young people?
Dame Diana Johnson
The hon. Member obviously has a great deal of experience in education, and of what works with young people when teaching these really important but difficult subjects. Given the number of issues she has raised and approaches she would like adopted, I am very happy, as I said at the outset, to take that back and to look at the advice that officials will give me and the public health Minister.
I agree with the hon. Lady about parents as well as politicians needing to be educated on this matter. Information about the dangers of SCRAs is readily available on Frank, which is the Government-funded national drug and alcohol advisory service. It explains that SCRAs can be more potent than cannabis and that the effects may last for life. It also says that there may be unknown effects, because, as is important to note, we are at the early stages.
I again thank the hon. Member for raising this important and concerning matter. I hope I have made it clear not only that punitive measures are available to tackle those who illegally supply these dangerous drugs, but that the Government are alive to the dangers of children vaping more widely, as well as in these particular instances. Through measures planned to be introduced in the tobacco and vapes Bill, we aim to reduce the availability of vapes to children. As I have promised, I will certainly feed back to the public health Minister the issues she has raised about what should be in that Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2024
Diana Johnson Excerpts(2 weeks, 6 days ago)
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The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2024.
It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford, especially as this is the first time that I have had the pleasure of addressing this Committee after a 14-year break. I am grateful to the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, known as the ACMD, for its advice which has informed this draft order.
The draft order was laid before Parliament on 2 September. The purpose of the order is to amend schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, the MDA, to control six substances and introduce a generic definition for nitazenes as class A drugs, and to control sixteen substances as class C drugs. The draft order also seeks to add clarity to the control of an existing class B drug, by adding an additional common name and its International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry name to its entry.
Following the 66th session of the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs, the synthetic opioid 2-methyl-AP-237 was added to schedule 1 of the single convention on narcotic drugs of 1961, to which the UK is a signatory. New synthetic opioids are a substantial current public health threat. They have similar effects to well-known opioids such as morphine and heroin, although some can be more potent. With a high potential for addiction and dependence, lower doses of these substances can lead to the same effects as other opioids. They have an increased risk of accidental overdose, which can lead to life-threatening outcomes.
In its report of 27 March 2024, the ACMD considered the harms of 2-methyl-AP-237 but also provided advice on closely related acyl piperazine opioids. The ACMD noted the likelihood of further increases in their prevalence, as well as the potential health and social harms associated with specific acyl piperazine opioids.
The draft order follows the recommendations from the ACMD and therefore seeks to control four named acyl piperazine opioids and two chemically bridged acyl piperazine derivatives, which includes 2-methyl-AP-237, as class A drugs under the MDA.
Under the MDA, there are a number of nitazenes, another type of synthetic opioid, that are already controlled as class A drugs. However, more needs to be done to reduce the opportunity for criminals to circumvent existing controls by making minor alterations to the chemical structure of existing named nitazenes under control. That is why the draft order implements the ACMD proposal to introduce a generic definition of nitazenes. The intention is to future-proof the legislation by covering known and predicted variants likely to present a significant risk to health. The ACMD has published four updates to address new structurally-related compounds under the definition. As such, the draft order introduces a generic definition for nitazenes as a class A drug under the MDA.
Benzodiazepines are sedatives known for use in various treatments including anxiety, insomnia and epilepsy. In recent years, we have seen an increase in the non-medical use of novel benzodiazepines. They and related compounds have been associated with significant health harms. Since the ACMD’s last report in 2020, further benzodiazepines and related compounds have been identified that are not controlled under the MDA. As such, the ACMD published new recommendations in March 2024. The ACMD recommended 15 compounds for control, none of which are licensed as medicines in the UK. As such, in line with the ACMD advice, the draft order seeks to control 15 benzodiazepines and related compounds as class C drugs under the MDA.
Xylazine is a non-opioid tranquilizer that has been approved for use in veterinary medicine. However, we have seen an increase, both internationally and in the UK, in its illicit use. Xylazine is being used to adulterate illicitly manufactured opioids such as fentanyl to produce a mixture which is known as “tranq” in the USA. Xylazine can dangerously lower an individual’s level of consciousness, especially if combined with other sedatives. So, the draft order seeks to control xylazine as a class C drug under the MDA, as recommended by the ACMD.
The draft order also amends the entry for methoxyphenidine, to add an additional common name and its full international standardised name. This does not affect the existing control of the substance as a class B drug, but adds clarity on exactly which drug is controlled, given that there are multiple common names.
If made, this order will mean that these substances will be subject to control under the MDA. Furthermore, enforcement agencies, such as the police, will have the appropriate powers to further restrict the supply and use of these substances.
While nearly all these substances are likely to be captured by the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, the control of these substances under the MDA will enable higher penalties for their supply, as well as introducing a possession offence with wider reach. Those who supply or produce a class A drug could face up to life imprisonment, an unlimited fine, or both. For a class C, this could be up to 14 years’ imprisonment, an unlimited fine or both. Those found in unlawful possession face up to seven years in prison for a class A and up to two for a class C, with an unlimited fine, or both.
In addition to this order, a further statutory instrument will be introduced, via the negative resolution procedure. This is to make various amendments to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, known as the MDR and, if necessary, the Misuse of Drugs (Designation) Order 2015, to schedule and designate the newly controlled drugs, as appropriate. This follows the ACMD advice and will ensure that they will only be available for research or other special purposes under a Home Office licence.
As xylazine has legitimate use as a veterinary medicine, it will be placed in schedule 4, part 1 of the MDR to enable its continued legitimate use.
It is the Government’s intention that these amendments will come into force on the same date as this affirmative order, in early 2025.
The ACMD has provided helpful independent, detailed advice on the harms associated with these substances. We have a responsibility to protect the public against dangerous substances and will continue to act as swiftly as we can to ensure appropriate controls are in place.
I hope Members will approve this draft order and support the Government’s position to ensure that all 22 substances, as well as those caught by the generic definition for nitazenes, be subject to strict controls. I therefore commend the order to the Committee.
Dame Diana Johnson
I am grateful for the shadow Minister’s comments, particularly on the situation in Afghanistan; we need to remain very mindful of that. I will now respond to his questions.
It is absolutely right that we remain vigilant, and I am confident that the ACMD has the resources to do so. It has the power to access whatever information it needs about new variants coming into circulation. That is really important. In today’s proceedings we are very much taking a belt-and-braces approach, to make sure that we are ahead of the game wherever possible. I am confident that the ACMD will allow us to do that; we may well be back here in future if it provides further advice.
On xylazine, I take the point that we should keep an eye on how the legislation is working. As I said, it is a medicine that is used in veterinary science, and we need to make sure that it is still being used in the same way and that there are no problems with that. We also need to be mindful whether it is also being used in different ways. So, we absolutely remain vigilant. This is an area that I am particularly interested in and I will continue to look at these things as often as I can.
The hon. Gentleman referred to how the order could have issues around law enforcement and prisons. It is worth referring to the impact assessment and economic note that have been produced. Clearly, the law enforcement response is expected to be reasonably managed within existing resources; that is set out in the impact assessment. That is due to the relatively low levels of detection of these substances compared with other controlled substances, and the likelihood that such drugs are often possessed and trafficked with other substances already controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The police and other law enforcement agencies are operationally independent, as the shadow Minister knows, but we do expect them to prioritise resources in tackling crime, including drug-related crime, with a focus on those offences that cause the most harm.
I think we all agree that these are dangerous substances with potential to cause significant harm to individuals and society. It is right that all the substances that we have discussed today are put under strict controls under the 1971 Act. I therefore commend the order to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Forensic Information Databases Strategy Board: Annual Report 2023-24
Diana Johnson Excerpts(3 weeks, 4 days ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention (Dame Diana Johnson)
I am pleased to announce that I am today publishing the annual report of the forensic information database strategy board for 2023-24. This report covers the national DNA database and the national fingerprints database.
The strategy board chair, DCC Ben Snuggs, has presented the annual report to the Home Secretary under section 63AB(7) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Publication of the report is a statutory requirement under section 63AB(8) of the 1984 Act as inserted by section 24 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
The report highlights the continued fundamental importance of fingerprints and DNA in solving crimes and the key part these biometrics play in bringing offenders to justice, keeping the public safe and preventing harm to potential future victims. I am grateful to the strategy board for their commitment to fulfilling their statutory functions.
The report has been laid before the House and copies will be available from the Vote Office. It will also be available on gov.uk.
[HCWS120]
Oral Answers to Questions
Diana Johnson Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
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Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Home Department (Dame Diana Johnson)
We are determined to stamp out the scourge of serious youth violence, and we have set out an unprecedented mission to halve knife crime within a decade. We will introduce legislation to remove dangerous knives from our streets, and will tackle online knife sales with new sanctions for technology executives whose companies fail to obey the law. Our new young futures programme will prevent teenagers from being drawn into violence by bringing services together around them to ensure that they stay on the right path.
Warinder Juss
My constituency is in the west midlands, which, sadly, has been described as the knife crime capital of the United Kingdom. Only last September 16-year-old Terrell Marshall-Williams lost his life when he was stabbed to death with a so-called Rambo knife, and in March this year 17-year-old Harleigh Hepworth was stabbed to death in a park.
When we were previously in government, we used to have a slogan: “tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”. Given that issues such as drug abuse, lack of access to adequate mental health services and cuts in community provision—including youth centres—are considered to be causes of youth crime, how will my right hon. Friend’s Department use initiatives such as the young futures programme to tackle not only youth violence but the causes of youth violence?
Dame Diana Johnson
Let me first offer my condolences to the families of my hon. Friend’s constituents who so tragically lost their lives. Tackling serious violence and halving knife crime is a core part of our safer streets mission, but to be successful it will require action across Whitehall and with all partners including police, probation youth services, technology companies, charities and community organisations. My hon. Friend mentioned the preventive element provided by our young futures programme. The young futures hubs will be staffed by a range of trained professionals to support young people and help to prevent them from being drawn into violence.
Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)
Jo Platt (Leigh and Atherton) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister of State, Home Department (Dame Diana Johnson)
Antisocial behaviour is blighting high streets and town centres right across the country, and our communities are paying the price. That is why this Government have made tackling it a top priority. We will restore neighbourhood policing, putting bobbies back on the beat in every corner of the country, and we will introduce new respect orders so that the police can get repeat offenders off our streets.
Kirith Entwistle
Antisocial behaviour is one of the most common issues raised my constituents in Bolton North East. Can the Minister assure me and my constituents that her Department will take clear steps to tackle the issue head on?
Dame Diana Johnson
Absolutely. We have been very clear that we see neighbourhood policing as the bedrock of restoring public confidence in policing, and the neighbourhood policing guarantee is a crucial part of that. The police have powers to crack down on the antisocial use of dangerous and deafening off-road bikes, which causes much concern in many of our constituencies, so that they can be seized and destroyed far more swiftly.
Mr Barros-Curtis
I thank the Minister for her answer, and I would like to associate myself with the comments made by the Home Secretary in respect of Southport. During the election, my constituents in Cardiff West repeatedly raised the issue of antisocial behaviour. I know they will be grateful for the Minister’s answer, but can she assure me that this Government will work closely with the South Wales Police and our new police and crime commissioner, Emma Wools, to deliver on this vital mission?
Dame Diana Johnson
Absolutely. As I said in my opening answer, a priority for the Government is tackling the scourge of antisocial behaviour. We know that the police and local authorities have a range of powers to deal with antisocial behaviour, which we will strengthen through new legislation.
Laurence Turner
Crime and antisocial behaviour was the No. 1 issue on the doorstep during the election, and my constituents in Birmingham Northfield are paying the price for years of cuts to community services and neighbourhood policing. Figures released last week show that there was a 10% fall in recorded crime in Birmingham last year, but the number of shoplifting reports was up by a third. Will the Minister arrange a meeting with me, Simon Foster the West Midlands police and crime commissioner, and Birmingham city council, to discuss how respect orders and other measures can reduce the crime and antisocial behaviour that is blighting our communities?
Dame Diana Johnson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about this being one of the top issues on the doorstep during the general election campaign. It is worth reflecting on the fact that the powers in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 actually weakened the response to antisocial behaviour, and for far too long the Conservatives wrote this off as just low-level crime. That is why we are introducing respect orders and stronger powers for the police to tackle persistent antisocial behaviour offenders and get them out of our town centres. Of course I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss this issue.
Leigh Ingham
Residents in the Highfields area of Stafford have expressed concern around off-road vehicles being used in pedestrian areas. People, especially the elderly and vulnerable, have reported feeling intimidated and concerned for their safety and the safety of others. Could the Minister please tell me what the new Government have planned to tackle this issue?
Dame Diana Johnson
I am very aware of this issue and, as I said in an earlier response, we want to make sure that there is swift action to deal with it. We think the neighbourhood policing guarantee, getting police officers back on to the beat to see what is going on, will provide that reassurance. Stopping antisocial behaviour is key and we will make sure that that happens, but I am happy to discuss it with my hon. Friend as well.
Jo Platt
I welcome my right hon. Friend and her team to their places, and I thank the Home Secretary for visiting Leigh prior to the election to acknowledge the issues that we face in our towns. As my right hon. Friend knows, our town centres are struggling with persistent antisocial behaviour, often fuelled by drugs and alcohol abuse. That is placing a significant strain on our police force, deterring residents from visiting the towns and causing unease in the business community. I welcome the Home Secretary’s measures for more policing, but for fear of just moving the problem along, will my right hon. Friend outline the potential for collaboration among support agencies to better manage the complex nature of these offences?
Dame Diana Johnson
I thank my hon. Friend; how nice it is to see her back in her place in this House. Of course, collaboration will be key to tackling antisocial behaviour. In line with our manifesto, we will be introducing powerful new respect orders, giving the police greater powers to get persistent antisocial offenders off our streets. We will also introduce zero tolerance zones through a form of expedited public space protection orders, to prevent antisocial street drinking or local drug dealing, for example, from blighting particular areas.
Matt Vickers (Stockton West) (Con)
At Manchester airport this past week we have seen how antisocial behaviour can quickly spiral into serious violence. We have also seen how police officers can become subject to trial by social media with only partial information. The previous Government brought forward the use of force review to give police the clarity and confidence to act in the most challenging of circumstances. Will the right hon. Lady assure the House that she will continue this important work and stand on the side of our brave officers?
Dame Diana Johnson
I would just say to the shadow Policing Minister that one of the incidents he is referring to is clearly still under consideration by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, and it would be wrong for me to make any further comment on that at this time. Of course the police have our backing in the difficult job that they have to do, particularly around antisocial behaviour, and we will of course do what we can to support the police when they need that support.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
As the Minister has said, the physical presence of police officers—coppers on the beat—is crucial to tackling antisocial behaviour, but during recent years we have seen the number of police officers in the highlands of Scotland decline hugely. That is extremely worrying and does nothing for public confidence in the police force. I know that policing is devolved to the Scottish Government, but may I with some passion ask the Minister: what advice does she have for me as a Scottish Member?
Dame Diana Johnson
I am sure the hon. Gentleman does not need advice from me. He is quite clear that this is a devolved matter, so he obviously needs to take it up with the Scottish Government and Police Scotland. As an incoming Government we recognise that having enough police on the beat and being visible is important to the public feeling safe. That reassurance is vital, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman will take it up with the Scottish Government and Police Scotland.
Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) (Lab)
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
The Minister of State, Home Department (Dame Diana Johnson)
I totally sympathise with what my hon. Friend has set out. The police do have powers to seize vehicles being used illegally or in an antisocial manner, and to fine individuals who fail to stop when instructed to do so. We will set out our plans to crack down on antisocial road users in due course.
Ben Goldsborough (South Norfolk) (Lab)
Dame Diana Johnson
The Government recognise the importance of tackling rural crime. We are committed to safeguarding rural communities with tougher measures to clamp down on antisocial behaviour and strengthen neighbourhood policing and stronger laws to prevent farm theft and fly-tipping. The national rural crime unit provides police forces with specialist operational support in respect of the theft of farming or construction machinery, livestock theft, fly-tipping, fuel theft and equine crime.
Sir David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
For the communities in my constituency mourning the loss of a young person to knife crime, the Government’s commitment to ban zombie knives, machetes and ninja swords cannot come soon enough. Can the Home Secretary confirm that, in bringing forward this vital legislation, she will ensure that the penalties for selling those weapons illegally will be substantial and that they will apply personally to executives at the highest level in any retail outlet, including online marketplaces such as eBay and Amazon?
Dame Diana Johnson
The Government have a manifesto commitment to ban ninja swords and other weapons and will be taking it forward as soon as possible. I have listened carefully to what my hon. Friend has said. Ensuring that lethal blades that have been used to kill teenagers on our streets are no longer available to buy or sell is a key priority. We will also implement the ban on zombie knives and zombie-style machetes, which was approved by Parliament in April.
Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)
Dr Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
In Tooting town centre, we have had Operation Kenny rolled out this year, which has been fantastic in tackling violent crime and making people feel safer. It has meant more police patrolling the streets on a continuous basis and has led to a 70% reduction in crime. We would like to see that programme rolled out across the country, so can I tempt the Home Secretary to visit Tooting to see the fantastic effects that it is having?
Dame Diana Johnson
I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting that important work being done on the streets of London. We want to ensure that policing has the support it needs from central Government. I am sure that the Home Secretary or I would very much enjoy a visit to see that in action.
Robbie Moore (Keighley and Ilkley) (Con)
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)
I had the pleasure of visiting the Metropolitan police special operations unit in my constituency with the new Policing Minister on Saturday. We discussed a range of issues with the officers, from counter-terrorism to dealing with violent crime, protests and antisocial behaviour. Does the Home Secretary agree that we need additional resources for our police officers and urgent action to work with the Met to keep our streets safe in London?
Dame Diana Johnson
It was a great pleasure to be on that visit with the local constituency MP. We will consider funding around the police settlement in the weeks and months ahead.
Dr Kieran Mullan (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)
A few days ago, the Home Office published a notice about the use of the Northeye detention centre in my constituency, telling residents very little except that no decision had been made. As a matter of urgency, will the Home Office publish what options it is considering for the centre’s use and commit to a timetable for telling residents when it will come to at least a provisional decision that I and my constituents can feed into?
Arrests and Prison Capacity
Diana Johnson Excerpts(5 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
Obviously, public safety is paramount in all of this, and I do want to say to the Minister that the fact that contingency plans were being drawn up is itself worrying. I accept what the Chair of the Justice Committee, the hon. and learned Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Neill), says about this being a sensible step to take, but it is indeed very worrying that we have to have contingencies in place. If in the future these contingency plans are activated, what happens if the police decide not to prioritise an arrest and in the meantime that person goes on to harm someone? I am thinking of non-contact sexual offences and, in particular, retail crime, which the Home Affairs Committee has been looking at recently.
Chris Philp
The right hon. Lady is right to say that arrests of offenders of the kinds she describes are extremely important, and at no point would I ever expect, even in the contingency outlined—in fact, it never came to pass, as I have set out—that offenders of the kinds she references would not continue to be arrested. That is critically important. The ECSL 70 measure—end of custody supervised licence for up to 70 days—which comes into effect tomorrow, is designed to ensure that such scenarios never come about, because as Policing Minister I want to make sure that we never see the situation she describes.
Criminal Justice Bill
Diana Johnson ExcerptsWednesday 15th May 2024
(5 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Criminal Justice Bill 2023-24 View all Criminal Justice Bill 2023-24 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 15 May 2024 - (15 May 2024)
Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con)
I restrict my interest today to new clause 55, which I tabled. It would set up the offence of child criminal exploitation—in other words, it is Fagin’s law. The essence of the name Fagin explains the new clause. In simple terms, if an individual—whether an adult or a child—approached a child with the intention of persuading that child to engage in criminal activity, that in itself would be a crime. That would apply whether or not the child ultimately engaged in the criminal act.
I am delighted to see the Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire on the Front Bench, because I blame him for my dealing with this. We discussed it in a meeting, and I put it to him that we really ought to adapt the grooming legislation or bring forward new legislation to deal with the criminal exploitation of children. Like a normal Minister, he said, “Can you go away and sort it out, and come up with something for me?”, which I have done. He might now refuse it this evening, but I hope that he does not, because I will keep on coming back.
The most obvious crimes to target are county lines, organised shoplifting, independent shoplifting, pickpocketing, carrying goods from pickpocketing, carrying weapons or the proceeds of crime on behalf of another—usually an adult who has groomed the child—prostitution and sex activities, of which there has been quite some mention, as there always is, and, finally and horrifically, the grooming of a child for terrorist purposes. They wrap the child in a bomb, send them off to wherever they need to go, and press the button—absolutely horrific.
I have had considerable discussions with a few very senior, very knowledgeable police officers. They are—unlike what the Minister may feel—very enthusiastic about this tiny bit of legislation going through. One of the senior officers, who targets county lines, explained to me that they rely mostly on trying to fit the Modern Slavery Act to that particular problem, but it is a poor fit.
It has been pointed out to me that this approach has already been covered in section 44 of the Serious Crime Act 2007. In answer to a recent parliamentary question of mine, I was informed that section 44 was used 93 times in 2021-22 and 60 times in 2022-23, which is pathetic. Those figures are further diminished when we look at them a little more closely: they relate to the number of offences, not to the number of individual defendants, and I am not sure whether some or any of them involve a child.
A second, even more senior, police officer who I have worked with has a special interest in child protection—that is his job. He has made it clear that he is enthusiastic about this move, and I am sure he will thank the Policing Minister if we nod it through today. He has made the point to me that while there are provisions in the Serious Crime Act—which I have just mentioned—as well as in the Modern Slavery Act 2015, the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and other Acts that the police can try to make fit, they are a poor fit. It does not work, because that legislation is not specific to children.
In essence, senior police officers point out to me that those pieces of legislation are rarely used to stop child criminalisation. They also make the point that if the legislation were adapted ever so slightly to refer to a child, that would make a difference. Any Members present who are parents or have had care of children will know that children—not all of them, but most of them—are persuadable.
One of my villages, Bookham, has a petrol station on the A246 with a shop attached to it. That shop is big, well known and open 24 hours. Late one evening, the single man who was in there looking after the customers noticed that there was a single person in the shop, an eight-year-old child in a dressing gown. She was helping herself, and was obviously going to zip out the door with what she had pilfered. When he approached her, she said, “If you come any closer, I’ll open my dressing gown, and I’ve got nothing on underneath.” She would not have thought of that. She could not have thought of it—she was only eight. She was quite clearly doing that for somebody else, who was probably sitting outside with a camera. That is the sort of thing that we should be stopping. Of course, I am going to find out in due course whether I am persuading the Minister.
As I have said, the opinion of that child protection officer is that the legislation we have does not fit. He and many other senior police officers working in this area want further legislation to specifically equate grooming through criminal exploitation with what is contained in the Sexual Offences Act 2003, targeted at child protection. All the officers who have an interest in the protection of children with whom I have discussed this matter have pointed out that the key difference between my new clause 55 and section 44 of the Serious Crime Act is that my new clause is specifically targeted at the child. From my discussions with police officers, I have been impressed by the deterrent effect on criminals who may be prosecuted for a child offence. That, I understand, tends to make life in jail even more difficult than it might otherwise be.
As a number of senior lawyers—including Members of this House—have pointed out to me, there is overlap and duplication within British law. I am no lawyer, but many lawyers have said that to me. If my new clause 55 became law, the tariff applied to the crime would be that which would apply to the crime that the culprit was attempting to persuade the child to commit. If it was murder, the tariff would be life; if it was just pilfering from a shop, it would be very much less. As many Members will be aware, for many years, I have been pushing for improvement in legislation for the protection of children. I have also worked—particularly as a councillor—in the inner cities, so I know they are vulnerable. If my new clause is accepted, it would make a huge change to the protection of children against a life of crime.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
There have been some excellent speeches on this first day on Report on the Criminal Justice Bill, and I support many of the amendments that have been spoken to. In my remarks, I particularly want to focus on amendments tabled by hon. and right hon. Members that the Home Affairs Committee has recommended in a number of our inquiries.
I will start with new clause 8, on pimping websites, which seeks to establish an offence of enabling or profiting from prostitution. It was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), and I commend her for her speech and for setting out so clearly why this is important. The Home Affairs Committee has recommended this change, and we concluded that it is imperative that the Government make it a criminal offence to enable or profit from the prostitution of another person to reduce and deter trafficking for sexual exploitation.
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill
Diana Johnson ExcerptsWednesday 17th April 2024
(6 months, 3 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024 View all Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Commons Consideration of Lords Message as at 17 April 2024 - (17 Apr 2024)
Sir William Cash
I will be brief and focus entirely on Lord Coaker’s amendment 1D, which I have already mentioned in interventions. The problem with the wording that he put forward in debate is one of disingenuously mixing apples and pears. I want to know whether the Leader of the Opposition is also behind the amendment, because it is much more substantial than its predecessor. It is actually a change in Labour policy as well. The noble Lord Irvine, Tony Blair as Prime Minister and Jack Straw all agreed that the sovereignty of Parliament, where words are clear and unambiguous, prevails.
The bottom line is that that is exactly what we are dealing with here. I applaud the idea of maintaining international law—I have never taken a different view—but in his speech Lord Coaker compared what is going on in the middle east to the illegal war in Ukraine and the Houthis in the Red sea. He fails to appreciate that those situations are separate to this issue, and I am raising this as a matter of principle and constitutional propriety. Those are exclusively matters of prerogative, whereas in this instance we are dealing with an issue of sovereignty and the clear and unambiguous words that appear in statute, as Lord Hoffmann made clear when he distinguished between treaties and statutes in relation to the case of Regina v. Lyons, which I have referred to previously.
The position is basically and simply this: I stand by what I have said on this subject in the past. I sincerely trust that the Court will agree that these words are clear and unambiguous.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
The Government’s motion to disagree with Lords amendment 1D is a motion to disagree with the Government’s obligation in relation to the Bill to have due regard for international law and the Children Act 1989, the Human Rights Act 1998 and the Modern Slavery Act 2015. If the Government are confident that the Rwanda scheme will be fully compliant with international law and the aforementioned domestic law, I do not understand why they are rejecting this amendment again.
The motion to disagree with Lords amendment 3E would scrap the requirement inserted by the Lords that Rwanda be treated as a safe country only if and when protections contained in the treaty are judged by the independent monitoring committee to have been implemented and to remain implemented. Surely Lords amendment 3E is an entirely proper and legal amendment if the Government deem that the measure in their own treaty is necessary? Given that Members had no opportunity to debate that treaty prior to ratification, the amendment would at least provide some reassurance that the protections it contains will be put into practice.
The motion to disagree with Lords amendment 6D is a motion to deny individual grounds for legal challenge that the Republic of Rwanda is a safe country for the person in question or for a group of persons, or that there is a real risk that Rwanda will remove or send those persons to another state. The Home Affairs Committee has always been clear that there has to be the opportunity for appropriate legal challenge as a necessary part of our fair asylum system.
I listened very carefully to the Minister’s assurances about the specified category that could be used in the future, but amendment 10D sets out very clearly why such provisions should be included on the face of the Bill and our obligations to those who have helped us and our armed forces overseas. That amendment would be the right thing to add to the Bill.
Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)
As I was watching Aston Villa smash Arsenal on Sunday, my thoughts turned to today’s debate because, as Aston Villa fans will know, the Emirates stadium is of course sponsored by the Visit Rwanda scheme, and Arsenal play with those words emblazoned on their shirts.
I strongly support the Government’s position as set out by the reasons articulated by my right hon. and learned Friend the excellent Minister for Countering Illegal Migration. More than that, though, behind all these amendments, this ping-pong, the Reasons Room, and this process, which is quite baffling to my constituents, lies a simple question: is this Parliament sovereign or not? I believe I was sent to this Parliament to make laws in the interests of my constituents in Redditch. They are a generous people—we have accepted refugees from around the world and given them a warm Redditch welcome—but in the interests of stability and security, and protecting those British values and the culture that we all care about, they also ask that we enact measures to enable our country to control our borders. This whole debate is really summed up by the question of whether or not we in the west are able to control our borders, because we all know that this is going to get much worse. Some 100 million people are on the move.
The Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), talked about having more grown-ups in the room and talking more nicely. Perhaps the people smugglers will listen to that and stop putting people in small boats, but somehow I doubt it—it is complete and utter nonsense. We are sent to this place to make hard choices, not emote and do things that make us feel good in the moment. We have to stand on one side, with the sovereignty of this Parliament and the people of Redditch, and this Bill is the way to do so. Let us get Rwanda done. We will stop these boats and make our country safer.
Angiolini Inquiry Report
Diana Johnson Excerpts(8 months, 1 week ago)
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Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I call the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee.
Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
I welcome today’s statement. I hope that we will get a full response to the report from the Home Secretary very quickly. May I also associate myself with the comments of the Home Secretary and other right hon. and hon. Members today? Our thoughts are with the family and friends of Sarah Everard.
I wish to ask the Home Secretary again about this issue of indecent exposure, which is highlighted in the report and which he has talked about a little. In my constituency, we had the horrific case of Libby Squire, who was raped and murdered by a man who had been stalking women and roaming the streets of Hull for 18 months prior to murdering her. He had been exposing himself and committing acts of voyeurism. People did not report his actions, because they did not think that the police would take them seriously. Libby’s mum, Lisa Squire, has been campaigning on this for the past few years. She has recently given evidence at a hearing of the Home Affairs Committee. I wondered whether the Home Secretary would meet her, because it would be interesting to know his view. What more can be done now to encourage people—women in particular—to come forward when such things happen to them? I would also say that almost every woman I know has had this happen to them at some stage in their life. This problem is endemic.
James Cleverly
I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for raising this point. I will of course seek to find an opportunity to meet the Squire family about this matter.
There needs to be a cycle of increased confidence. I hate some of the phraseology that has been applied, and I choose never to apply it about this issue, because there is the implication that these matters are less serious. But the sad truth is that, when we see reports of serious sexual violence, we can look back through the case history and often see plenty of examples of criminality leading up to that. Therefore we do absolutely need to take this seriously. Women who have been the victims of these kind of crimes—this kind of behaviour—need to feel confident about reporting them and they need to feel confident that their reports will be taken seriously. The more they see the police taking action, the more confident they will be in coming forward. Therefore, we need to develop a virtuous circle. We are not there yet; indeed, we know that we are a long way from that. We have seen this happen in the Couzens case. He was known to have committed these crimes, and that should have triggered a much more robust response. But it did not, and we must address why that was the case. We have to ensure that leadership and policing understand that, collectively, this House and the Home Office expect them to take this matter more seriously and send the signal that these crimes are not trivial and should not be ignored.