Commons Chamber

Thursday 26th February 2026

(began 3 weeks, 4 days ago)

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None Portrait Oral questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Question number one,
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None Portrait Q2. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England is taking to support deprived communities. (907871)
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Jessica Toale Preston Mr Speaker Marsha de Cordova. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The church remains a major investor in deprived communities and funding for periods of 2026 to 2028 has
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None Portrait Q4. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church is taking to support Christian communities in Palestine. (907873)
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>> I should declare the. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And with your permission, I would like to group question four and seven. Now, despite the horrific and truly devastating situation in Palestine,
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None Portrait Q6. To ask the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the Restoration and Renewal Client Board, what its planned timetable is for starting major works on the Palace of Westminster. (907875)
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>> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Client Board recent report recommends a way forward for restoration and renewal. This
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None Portrait Q8. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church has made of the potential merits of issuing a formal apology to mothers and adoptees affected by the Church's involvement in historic forced adoptions. (907877)
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Mr. swallow. >> Please, Mr. speaker. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Church of England has expressed heartfelt sorrow and regret for heartfelt sorrow and regret for anyone who has been hurt. The national national church institutions are engaging with a institutions are engaging with a range of stakeholders, including, and most importantly, those people who were directly affected.
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None Portrait Q10. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment the Church of England has made of the potential impact of the conflict in Sudan on the Christian population in that country. (907880)
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Anglican Communion is deeply alarmed by the worsening humanitarian catastrophe catastrophe described by regional bishops as almost unbearable.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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forecast statement, followed by consideration of Lords amendments to the Sustainable Aviation Fuel to the Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill Wednesday. The 4th of March will be Estimates Day, the fourth allotted day. There will be debates on estimates relating to the foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the Ministry of Defence and the Department for Defence and the Department for Business and Trade. At 7 p.m. the House will be asked to agree all outstanding estimates Thursday, the outstanding estimates Thursday, the 5th of March. Proceedings on the supply and appropriation, Anticipation and Adjustments number two Bill, followed by a general debate on contributions of Commonwealth troops in World War One, followed by a debate on a motion on the future of palliative care.

The subject for these debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee, and on Friday 6th March the House will not be sitting. The provisional business for the week commencing the 9th of March includes Monday the 9th of March. Consideration of Lords amendments to the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill, Tuesday the 10th of March, Second Reading of the Courts and Tribunals Bill, Wednesday 11th March. Remaining stages of the Finance Number two Bill, Thursday the 12th of March. General Debate to mark International Women's Day and on Friday the 13th of March, the House will not be sitting Joe Morris.
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Joy Morrissey Portrait Joy Morrissey MP (Beaconsfield, Conservative)
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a pleasure to be doing business questions and responding to the questions and responding to the right hon. Gentleman who, like myself, but more grand, was a Chief Whip and much respected and revered and sometimes feared by members of this House. And I'll be honest, Mr. Speaker, even I was terrified of him. And it's not he. We're not even in the same party. So it is a pleasure to be here today. And as we reach the fourth anniversary of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, it is important that we restate our unwavering support for the people of Ukraine.

We must never abandon them. And I know it's been a challenging few weeks for the Labour Party. We've all been there. They've come to realise what the British people long understood, that we have a Prime Minister who has U-turned on every principle he held and every promise he made a Prime Minister elected on a promise not to raise taxes on working people than he raised them. A Prime Minister who promised to be pro-business but the most anti. And he has become the most anti-business Prime Minister of modern times, a Prime Minister who promised to raise standards in public life but is presiding over an ever growing mountain of government scandals.

The grown ups are back in charge. No more sleaze. How's that going for you? Will? The Prime Minister stumbles on. His Ministers are now out of control and out of their depth. And the British people are paying the price. Let me start with the Justice Secretary. This week we saw he intends to pursue his reckless plan to cut jury trials, a principle that has existed for over 800 years, a principle he wants to wreck without proper debate in the House, so will the Leader of the House give me, as a categoric assurance that the changes to the Justice Secretary wants to make, that we will have time to debate in the House before we get to May.

And now let me turn to the Education Secretary of State and Equalities Minister. There can be no justification for the delay in providing guidance on single sex spaces. The Supreme Court ruled a year ago that biological sex defines a woman, a fact that most people knew without needing a judge to tell them. I don't know if the Education secretary deep down still doesn't agree, but the inaction must end. So will the Leader of the House confirm when the guidance will be laid before the House, and grant a debate in government time on the unacceptable delays and risk it has proved to women and girls.

Now, let me turn to the Chancellor this week, the Chancellor's entrepreneurship adviser shamefully said that Britain doesn't need more restaurants, laying bare what we already knew. This government is determined to tax our hospitality businesses to extinction. So will the Chancellor apologise for her adviser and sack her or back her and agree with her anti-homosexuality stance? Will the Leader of the House grant a debate in government time on our pubs and hospitality so that members, at least on this side of the House, can have a debate and show their support for the hospitality sector.

And we want to move forward, making sure that this crippling tax burden is removed from the hospitality sector moving forward. And, Mr. Speaker, it is now clear that we have a Prime Minister with an out of control government buried deep in scandal after scandal, failure after failure, broken promise after broken promise. A Prime Minister without principle, a Prime Minister without purpose, a Prime Minister without a future. And the British people deserve better.
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Yet. >> In the House. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the hon. Lady for her questions and for her warm welcome. questions and for her warm welcome. But let her let me gently warn her that soft silk will get absolutely nowhere. Let me, let me let me join with her in expressing our continued support for Ukraine. This week marks four years since Putin's full scale invasion. The government remains steadfast in its support, as did the previous government for the people of Ukraine.

And this week we announced a landmark sanctions package against Russia. We will stand with Ukraine as long as it takes to achieve a just and lasting peace, which underlines the importance of NATO and, frankly, the foolishness of any party in this House who wants us to leave NATO. Mr. speaker, I'm sure the whole House will wish to congratulate team GB on their most successful Winter Olympic Games ever and send our best wishes to Paralympics GB ahead of the Paralympic Winter games starting on the 6th of March.

Mr. speaker, I also want to send my condolences to the family and friends of Harry Barnes, who passed away last week. He diligently served as MP for North East Derbyshire for nearly 20 years. I also wish to send my condolences to the family and friends of Martin Butler, who was the co-founder of the Terrence Higgins Trust, and as so, Martin supported the trust for five decades and fought for LGBT rights in its undoubted Mr Speaker that his legacy will live on this week.

Mr. speaker, Ofgem has announced that electricity bills will come down for millions of households as a result of the action that we took in the Budget and as we have announced Mr Speaker major changes, we have announced major changes to the Senedd system. We are putting children and young people first. Every child with additional needs will benefit from a better, more tailored support with Senedd support in every school and community. And finally, Mr. Speaker, I want to wish all those celebrating a Happy Saint David's Day on Sunday.

Let me now turn to the remarks of the hon. Lady and let me begin with her. I thought, fairly churlish remarks about the Prime Minister, because what she failed to mention, what she failed to mention because he is doing such a good job. I'm pleased the hon. Gentleman acknowledges that, that inflation is falling, that interest rates have fallen six times since the general election. Retail sales are up, wages are up and the economy is growing. So I think that is a record upon which we should be proud.

And let me turn to the question of the Prime Minister's integrity and just a draw the comparison, Mr. Speaker, to the integrity of my right hon. Friend, with the fact that the hon. Lady was one of the very last people in the redoubt with Boris Johnson not joining others in holding the former Prime Minister to account. Let me turn now to the courts Bill. I've already announced, Mr. Speaker, the Second Reading of the courts Bill. There will be plenty of time to debate.

I will bring forward the next stages in the usual way, and similarly with the guidance that she refers to, we will be bringing forward. We've committed to bringing forward that guidance, and we will do. And there will be time for a debate of these important matters. But it is important that we get it right in terms of hospitality. Mr. speaker, there will be further opportunities to debate these issues when the Finance Bill returns. But let me just remind the House that under the previous government, 7000 pubs closed, and she refers to that as the support of her party for pubs.

Goodness me, Mr. Speaker, what would it be if they hadn't supported those pubs? But we're not going to take any lessons about hospitality from the party opposite Chris Law.
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Bobby Dean Portrait Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
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Bobby Dean Liberal Democrats. join the Leader of the House in his comments he made about Ukraine, it's clear that Vladimir Putin underestimated Ukrainians underestimated Ukrainians resilience. He underestimated Europe's willingness to stand by Ukraine. And he will find out that we will all stand by Ukraine right to the end of this war. Yeah, I'd like to move on to the cost of living, Mr. Speaker, and how it's been piling pressure on people for years. And this has meant that people have been plunged into debt and they're into debt via various bodies, citizens advice and people like Stepchange offer advice on how to get out of debt situations.

One of the things that they commonly raise with me, and I see it in my own inbox as well, is the aggressive debt recovery actions of those in the public sector. So if you fall behind on a council tax payment, often councils are quite quick to cancel your existing payment plans and order that you pay a fine and that get to the stage of bailiffs quite quickly, often within six weeks. And this is different to what happens in the private sector where they're more heavily regulated.

They need to show more meaningful engagement with residents, offer payment plans and get to court action much later. I see it again in the case of Department of Work and Pensions, we've already spoken in this place about the Carer's Allowance overpayment scandal and the way in which those people were chasing payments, but I've had examples in my inbox in the last couple of weeks of somebody who rose to £10,000 worth of debt with DWP due to errors on Dwp's part, and they started getting chased aggressively.

For this. And of course, they can automatically deduct payments from Universal Credit almost immediately, up to 15%, leaving the resident with no understanding of what's happened in the past, let alone how they're going to manage going forward. And of course, there are new powers that the government seeking to be able to go into bank accounts directly and take payments. And it's going to be extremely worrying, given the errors that DWP have made in the past. And so this doesn't only relate to DWP.

I think this relates to all public sector bodies. So I'm not quite sure who the relevant Minister to put this to is, but I would appreciate if the House could engage with the government and see if they can get a more sympathetic and understanding debt recovery process across public sector organisations.
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Bob Blackman Portrait Bob Blackman MP (Harrow East, Conservative)
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Bob Blackman chair of the backbench. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the leader for announcing the business for the next two weeks. business for the next two weeks. And can I make a plea to him and to you, Mr. Speaker, for the estimates day debates, we had seven excellent bids. Had to choose three of them. But time will be compressed in those debates. So I hope that a very high bar for UQs will be initiated, and the government will not put on statements on that

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particular hell. Don't put as many in from the government side.

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government side. I don't think I've submitted a request for a UQ for a very long time. Mr. speaker, next week I time. Mr. speaker, next week I might do next week. But in addition, the business in Westminster Hall on Tuesday will be a debate on strengthening community cohesion, strengthening community cohesion, which might be quite appropriate after the by election today, after the by election today, followed by on Thursday the 5th of March. Two debates, one on the importance of local museums, followed by a debate on World Book Day on Tuesday the 10th of March, a debate on import and sale of fur and fur related products.

And on Thursday the 12th, the Liaison Committee have a Northern Ireland debate, followed by a debate on the government support for carnivores on. On Tuesday, the 17th of March will be a debate on productivity and economic growth in the East Midlands. Now, Mr. speaker, in business questions, there's frequently raised the unfair service charges that are implemented by companies across the UK. But I think I've got one that tops the lot because in my constituency we have a development called Stanmore Place, which has a mixture of housing association managed property and 798 private leased properties.

This is managed by Edwards Homes and have a managing company called R and R now, due to the incompetence of R and R in the management company, they failed to actually deliver the costs of heating for the shared services for the last ten years. However, they've now decided to reinforce those individuals who've paid their bills going back. They've generously said that they won't invoice them from 2015 to 2021, but they will invoice them from 21 to 26. Now, apparently, Ofgem are changing the rules so that this will not be allowed in future.

They can only go back 12 months, which is reasonable. However, Ofgem are only going to change this in 2027. So at the moment this in this particular case and across the UK, we are going to have the Wild West show in terms of backfilling. So I know that the government is looking obviously at service charges, particularly on leasehold, leasehold reform. Could the leader, therefore encourage Ministers to make sure that this practice is outlawed immediately?
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Alan Campbell Portrait Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP, Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Tynemouth, Labour)
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Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the hon. Speaker, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for his work on the committee, his committee, and indeed the work of the Committee. indeed the work of the Committee. I'm pleased to hear that a number of very good bids came forward for estimates today. So to that extent estimates today. So to that extent the system is is working. But as as he will know, it is a question of balance. We want to make full use of the time on that day, and therefore having three debates may be challenging in terms of time, but it certainly should ensure that we use the whole of that time.

And previously that was not always the case. But I have heard his request around statements. That's a matter for the government and I will see what we can what we can do. Let me turn now to services charges. And as he has said, Mr. Speaker, we are determined to take action to address unfair and unjustified charges, and we are committed to implementing the measures in the Leasehold and Freedom Freehold Reform Act as soon as possible, because we are committed to ensuring that those living in leasehold sector are protected from abuse and poor service at the hands of unscrupulous managing agents.

So I will ensure that both Ofgem and Ministers hear of his concerns today and see if anything can be done about timing, because I take his point very much.
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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Governor of Gibraltar, His Excellency, Lieutenant General Sir Ben Bathurst, in the gallery, and also take the opportunity, given his previous commands, to wish him his previous commands, to wish him a very happy Saint David's Day in advance. Dydd gwyl Dewi hapus and I share that with all the house and indeed the people of Gibraltar. Mr. speaker, and also it's a pleasure to have you in the chair, Mr. to have you in the chair, Mr. Speaker, given your own strong support for and associations with Gibraltar, and not least in relation to the University, after five years and a tireless and complex work and dozens of rounds of negotiations, I am pleased to inform the House that we have published a draft version of the treaty, and I am depositing a copy of the draft treaty in the libraries of the House, together with an accompanying summary document.

I am delighted we have reached this moment, which heralds a new era of security, prosperity and stability for Gibraltar and the surrounding region and, crucially, protects British sovereignty over the rock. For more than 300 years, the rock has been a hugely important part of the British family. Its people are British citizens and our commitment to them remains absolute. Mr. speaker, this government has taken seriously its responsibility to protect Gibraltar's unique position and secure post-Brexit arrangements that deliver on that responsibility. This draft treaty protects jobs and livelihoods for the people of Gibraltar, and it offers a stable framework for their relationship with the European Union.

Removing the uncertainty that they have faced since Brexit. In short, Mr. Speaker, it shows what real diplomacy and cooperation can achieve and this is the result of sustained and effective efforts on the part of the United Kingdom. His Majesty's Government of Gibraltar, the European Union and Spain, and His Majesty's Government of Gibraltar has been at the table at every stage of these negotiations. Nothing has been agreed without their full support, and I want to place on record my appreciation for the Chief Minister, the Deputy Chief Minister and their teams who played vital roles in securing the best outcome.

I also want to pay tribute to the UK negotiators, including our teams in Brussels, Madrid, London and indeed in Gibraltar. Their diligence and diplomatic skill have ensured that this treaty protects UK sovereignty and delivers practical outcomes for citizens and businesses on both sides of the border. And now, Mr. Speaker, let me reflect on some of the detail. Around 15,000 people crossed the land border every day between Spain and Gibraltar. That's half of Gibraltar's workforce. This treaty removes all checks on people and goods at that border.

Instead, dual immigration checks will take place at Gibraltar's airport, with Gibraltar conducting its own controls and Spain as the neighbouring Schengen state conducting checks on behalf of the European Union. In a model similar to French police operating at Saint Pancras. Let me be clear, Mr. Speaker. Gibraltar is not joining Schengen. Immigration, policing and justice remain the responsibility of its own authorities. British sovereignty over Gibraltar, including British Gibraltar territorial waters, is fully upheld and explicitly protected. Crucially, Mr. Speaker, the United Kingdom's military facilities and operations on the Rock remain under full UK control.

The treaty also establishes a bespoke customs model that removes the need for routine goods, checks at the land border, and strengthens cooperation between customs authorities. Gibraltar will align its import duty rates on goods with EU rates, and this will allow people to cross the border with everyday goods such as shopping without declarations or additional charges, bringing an end to the long queues that we've seen for workers, businesses and visitors. And having been in those queues before, Mr. Speaker, myself, I know this will make a substantial difference.

To be clear, Mr. Speaker, Gibraltar will not apply VAT or any other sales tax and its vital services industry will not be affected. The result is a pragmatic agreement, an arrangement that protects Gibraltar's way of life, supports its economy and strengthens cross-border cooperation while safeguarding the United Kingdom's sovereignty position. It also gives businesses the certainty they have sought for many years, allowing them to plan and invest with confidence. Mr. speaker, the conclusion of these negotiations also reflects the wider, transformed change in tone and trust that this government has rebuilt with our European and EU partners, including Spain, a crucial NATO ally and economic partner.

It represents a new era of cooperation and delivery for growth and security. And as with the UK EU summit last year, this agreement shows that a constructive, problem solving relationship with the European Union can deliver real benefits for British citizens. We are publishing the draft treaty alongside the European Union, while legal teams complete final checks and translations so that all parliaments with an interest can have access to it on the same timeline. The publication of the draft today marks a milestone.

It is not the formal end of the process. The final version of the treaty will be laid in UK Parliament for scrutiny before ratification, in accordance with the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010. And we will continue to work closely with the Government of Gibraltar, the European Union and Spain as we move towards signature and implementation. I will, of course, update the House as that work progresses expeditiously. Mr. speaker, in conclusion, this is a significant achievement for Britain and for Gibraltar and for our wider European partnerships.

It shows this government's commitment to fixing problems, supporting our overseas territories and defending Britain's interests with clarity and confidence. Mr. speaker, with this treaty, Gibraltar can look to the future with certainty. Its people can be reassured that their way of life is protected. And I quote the Chief Minister today who said this treaty provides a springboard to stability, certainty and a modern partnership with the EU, and it does so without affecting our fundamental, inalienable right to remain British in every respect.

Indeed, the agreement makes absolutely clear that nothing in the agreement or any supplementing arrangements shall affect sovereignty. And in the words of my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister, our commitment to Gibraltar remains, as ever as solid as the Rock, and I commend this statement to the House.
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Wendy Morton Portrait Rt Hon Wendy Morton MP (Aldridge-Brownhills, Conservative)
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Shadow Minister Winterbourne. for bringing this statement to the House and allowing me to have advanced sight. But let me be clear, Parliament is reacting to events Parliament is reacting to events rather than being respected as part of the process. For weeks, detailed provisions of this treaty have provisions of this treaty have circulated in the press before. Members here have been permitted to see any legal text. That is not how serious constitutional business should be conducted. Now we have the text. Proper scrutiny must follow in this place and in Gibraltar, as we have consistently said, this must be a deal that the government, the Parliament and above all the people of Gibraltar are comfortable with.

It is right that the democratically elected government of Gibraltar has led negotiations and prioritised a free flowing border, but trade offs come with that and it is our duty to examine them carefully. The Sovereignty Clause states that nothing in the treaty alters the respective legal positions of the UK or Spain. But sovereignty is not simply about words. It is about how arrangements operate in practice. What recourse does the United Kingdom have if there is an operational overreach by Spain, including in the exercise of border control powers within Gibraltar's port and airport? Will British citizens be subject to the 90 day Schengen rule in Gibraltar? What is the reciprocal position for Spanish citizens, and what protections exist for British nationals with long standing ties to Gibraltar who do not hold Gibraltar ID cards? And what mechanisms are in place to resolve disputes when asymmetric decisions are taken at the border? On customs processing at EU designated port points in Spain and Portugal raises practical and constitutional questions.

So what oversight will the UK have and what recourse exists if those arrangements fail to operate effectively? What protections are there for imports of British goods and for Gibraltar's distinct economic model, particularly its financial services sector, and have the government's impact assessments fully examined? UK Gibraltar trade flows and potential adverse effects? But we must also address dynamic alignment. This treaty does not merely apply a fixed list of EU law. It provides for future EU acts listed in the annexes to be adopted and implemented with serious consequences if they are not.

So can the Minister explain clearly how this mechanism will operate, and how Gibraltar and the UK will avoid becoming subject to ongoing EU rule taking without meaningful political control on the European Court? The treaty requires consistent interpretation of applicable union law in line with case law of the ECJ. So in which precise areas will EU law bind Gibraltar's domestic arrangements? What assessment has been made of the implications of future rulings for Britain's national interest? I also must draw attention to article 25 and its reference to the and ask, can the Minister clarify how that provision operates within the treaty framework, and does adherence to the form a continuing condition of the agreement? No international agreement should pre-empt or constrain the sovereign right of this Parliament to determine the UK's constitutional arrangements.

So can the Minister confirm that under this treaty, an EU national may be may have access to Gibraltar through the land border without restrictions, but a British national travelling from the UK could be banned from entering at the airport, including on the say of Spanish border checks. But more broadly, what domestic legislation will be required to give effect to this treaty, and will Parliament have the opportunity to amend it in the normal way? On national security? Britain's sorry, Gibraltar's naval base is of immense strategic importance.

So will the Minister give an absolute assurance from the Dispatch Box that nothing in this agreement, directly or indirectly, now or through future implementation, can impact the operations, the freedom of action, access arrangements or security of the UK's naval base in any way whatsoever. But finally, Mr. Speaker, process does matter. Given the scale of this agreement, it is not possible to cover all of its implications in this short exchange today. There are serious questions about the operation of the border and dual checks.

The role of Spanish authorities at the airport, customs and taxation arrangements, business impacts, the adoption of future EU acts listed in the annexes, ECG interpretation and the domestic legislation required to implement the treaty. The Minister has said this is a draft, so when does he expect it to be finalised? When will the Crag process begin? There has been talk of early implementation, with Gibraltar suggesting the 10th of April. So can the Minister clarify this please? Because there must be time for the Crag process and it must be meaningful.

Provisional application on the 10th of April must not reduce parliamentary scrutiny merely to a rubber stamp. Gibraltar has stood resolutely British since 1713. Its people have repeatedly affirmed that choice. Any treaty must be examined line by line by this Parliament.
11:54
Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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Mr. her questions. I do have to say, Mr. Speaker, I've been rather disappointed by the the tone and indeed the tone had taken in the indeed the tone had taken in the media over the last few days on these on these issues, not least, Mr. Speaker, as I provided a very fulsome briefing to the shadow Foreign Secretary on these issues in advance. So the idea that we have not been communicating about this is simply not correct. I am also happy, in a spirit of generosity, Mr.

Speaker, to offer further briefings for the Shadow Minister and the shadow Foreign Secretary and to go through any detail they would like in the treaty. I am very happy. There is nothing to hide here. We welcome the scrutiny. We welcome the scrutiny of this House. She asks about the timeline. We, of course, have to respect that this is going through. This place is also going through processes in the EU. We are committed to that. We're committed to laying forward the final finalised text.

Mr. speaker, after signature of the treaty, which we expect to take place next month. And of course, it will then go through the appropriate processes in relation to Crag. She asked about sovereignty and she asked about recourse and dispute mechanisms. I mean, firstly, I just need to make absolutely clear that sovereignty was never on the table in these negotiations. It's not in doubt. That is an absolute. And this agreement safeguards that there are a range of recourse and dispute resolution mechanisms attached to the treaty.

She's welcome to go through those. I'm happy to explain them in in more detail. And we have very much kept to the double lock, which we set out at the start of these processes. She asks about the 90 day rule. Of course, it is not free for British citizens just to turn up in in Gibraltar without going through their immigration checks at the moment. And indeed, they're already subject to a 90 day rule. And I think this is an important thing to clarify. This seems to have been some misunderstandings of this in relation to all of our overseas territories.

Mr. speaker, recently, it does not have an automatic right. Gibraltar, of course, maintains immigration and security checks. She asks about customs. Gibraltar is not joining the customs union, but it is entering into a bespoke customs arrangement with the EU to ensure that fluidity, crucially of goods, they have chosen to enter into these arrangements. It's obviously for them to decide what kind of alignment that they need to have in relation to that. You know, again, I think this does reflect a wider challenge here, Mr.

Speaker, which is that the opposition would rather stick in the ideology of the Brexit years rather than pragmatic arrangements that deliver for the people of Gibraltar or indeed the people of this country. And crucially, this is about facilitating trade. It's about facilitating the flow of goods and indeed removing the checks and delays which have caused such frustration in the past. She asked about the ECJ. I'm happy to speak to her further about that as full detail in the treaty. She asked about the.

Of course we comply with the HR. Indeed does Gibraltar, as indeed does Spain and the EU, and we don't shy away from that, notwithstanding the reforms that we're seeking in wider debates that are going on outside of this place, she asked for an absolute assurance about our military activities at Gibraltar. I can absolutely assure her that nothing will fetter, either now or in the future, the activities of us to operate unimpeded in the way that we have done, and indeed our allies from the base.

That was an absolute condition that we set on this process. And I'm also pleased with the very cooperative approach that we have with Spain. They are a key NATO ally. We cooperate with them in the defence and security of Europe, and I'm glad that we now have a cooperative and positive spirit of engagement, not only with Spain, but with the EU and within a range of partners. Fundamentally, Mr. Speaker, this agreement is good for Gibraltar, it's good for stability, it's good for prosperity, it's good for security.

And, Mr. Speaker, it is supported by the government of Gibraltar. And that was our primary concern throughout this process, as well as protecting UK interests in this. And I think we should all respect and get behind the Government of Gibraltar in support of this agreement.
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Calum Miller Portrait Calum Miller MP (Bicester and Woodstock, Liberal Democrat)
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I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson Calum Miller. >> Speaker, and I'd like to thank the Minister for advance sight of the statement and for contact about it. In preceding days, the Conservatives botched deal with Conservatives botched deal with Europe left Gibraltar in a state of limbo for years. This was a shameful dereliction of their duty to protect Gibraltarians and the business community there. Now that we have a draft deal in place, we look forward to full scrutiny of the treaty in this House.

But it must meet a number of key tests. The first of those tests is the question of sovereignty. The new agreement must leave no lingering questions over the status of Britain's sovereignty in Gibraltar. This is vital given we know from past experience that the Spanish government is willing to act unilaterally over Gibraltar and to the detriment of Gibraltarians. So will the Minister outline what mechanisms exist in the deal to ensure compliance and effective dispute resolution in the event? In the event of any future possible unilateral action giving confidence to Gibraltarians that the deal will be enforceable and will the Minister confirm that the deal includes provisions for the agreement's termination.

In the event that the UK and Gibraltarians view it as no longer being in our shared interest in ensuring the ultimate guarantee of Gibraltar's sovereignty. The second test is whether this deal gives genuine effect to the self-determination of Gibraltarian community. Nothing about Gibraltar should be agreed without Gibraltarians, so will the Minister confirm that the Gibraltarian government has led these negotiations and that their interests have been forefront in front and centre in them? The final test is whether the deal actually works for Gibraltarian economy.

It must support jobs and economic growth in the territory. So will the Minister make available to the House the government's impact assessment of how this deal will support economic growth and jobs there?
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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Well, can I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for his constructive approach and and support? He's absolutely right to support? He's absolutely right to set out concerns in those three areas. I can absolutely assure him on all three points. I've been very, on all three points. I've been very, very clear about the sovereignty provisions they're there in in the explanatory documents, explaining that this does not affect our position on sovereignty and sovereignty of Gibraltar is protected. Absolutely. There are dispute resolution mechanisms and indeed termination provisions.

Very happy to brief him further on those and indeed other members of the House. He asked about self-determination and the principle of nothing about Gibraltar. Without Gibraltar, I can absolutely assure him that's the case. Gibraltar at the table. Throughout these negotiations, we've had a very constructive engagement with the Chief Minister, Deputy Chief Minister and their whole team throughout this process. And we were very clear that we wouldn't enter into an agreement that did not have their full support. And I think that's very, very significant matter for the whole House to consider as we move forward.

And thirdly, he asked about the deal working for Gibraltar's economy and growth. I can absolutely assure him it does very, very pragmatic changes that are going to deliver for businesses. They're going to deliver for that free movement of goods. They're going to make sure that Gibraltar's important services sector can continue to thrive without impediment, and that, crucially, there will be that mobility of individuals across the border. Indeed, there is also an important provision on the ability for in the future, subject to commercial decisions, flights to arrive from inside the EU into Gibraltar Airport, which they're currently not able to do, which will be good for jobs, tourism and growth in the whole region.

I'll come back to my impact statements. Those will undoubtedly be in the purview of the Government of Gibraltar, fundamentally to do those assessments, but I will happily provide him further information.
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Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )
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Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, I've answered many questions in this place on Chagos. I can assure him that read across between these processes is completely erroneous. This is an agreement that is good for Gibraltar. It's been agreed by for Gibraltar. It's been agreed by the Government of Gibraltar. We've worked closely with the EU to to make sure that this works for the prosperity and security of the people of Gibraltar, and it is hugely unhelpful. As I've said many times, Madam Deputy Speaker, to draw false comparisons between the Chagos and Biot and indeed other overseas territories, and indeed the Chief Minister of Gibraltar has specifically cautioned against doing so and he might want to listen to him.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

That is the end of the statement. I'll give the frontbenchers a few I'll give the frontbenchers a few moments to shuffle over. Thank you. I will also like to remind colleagues they should not be wandering in and out of the chamber, wandering in and out of the chamber, crossing the line of sight when a discussion is taking place. We now come to the Select Committee statement on behalf of the Home Affairs Committee. Dame Karen Bradley will speak up to ten minutes, during which no interventions may be taken.

At the conclusion of her statement, I will ask members to ask questions on the subject of the statement. These should be brief questions and not full speeches. Can I emphasise the question should be directed to the Select Committee chair and not the relevant government Minister. Frontbenchers may take part in Bradley.
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None Portrait Select Committee Statement: Fifth Report of the Home Affairs Committee, Maccabi Tel Aviv fan ban, HC 1553
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Thank you very. grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for granting this statement. The banning of away fans at football matches is highly
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Karen Bradley Portrait Rt Hon Dame Karen Bradley MP (Staffordshire Moorlands, Conservative)
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unusual in this country. The imposition of such a ban in respect of fans from another country is of fans from another country is almost unprecedented. The fact that the ban was on fans of an Israeli the ban was on fans of an Israeli club playing at a venue situated among sizeable Muslim communities, added a level of political added a level of political sensitivity. That is why we, as the committee, took the unusual step to write to the then Chief Constable of West Midlands Police to seek an explanation.

We were surprised by what this simple request eventually exposed. Our report covers conclusions about three organisations West Midlands Police, who were responsible for providing advice to the Safety Advisory Group or sack of Birmingham City Council. The sack itself, both in Birmingham and more generally, and the Home Office, including its liaison across government. Let me take those in turn on West Midlands Police. Our inquiry uncovered serious failings in the way in which they gathered and presented information and intelligence in advising on this fixture.

Whilst this fixture was rightly identified in advance as a high risk fixture, and the initial assumption was for away fans to attend, consultation was limited. The police relied to a disproportionate extent on a single conversation between a chief inspector in West Midlands Police and the Dutch police about the behaviour of Macabbi fans at a match against Ajax in Amsterdam in November 2020. For the Dutch police strongly disputed the WMP version of events, which included claims that 5 to 600 Maccabi fans were involved in disorder that targeted local communities, that they had links to the Israel Israeli Defence Force, and that they threw local fans in the river.

We cannot be sure what was said in this conversation because, unbelievably, the notes of the meeting were destroyed by West Midlands Police. But what we do now know is that some of the information relating to the conduct of the Maccabi fans was generated by artificial intelligence. Microsoft co-pilot. To be precise, the use of AI was by West Midlands Police, was under consideration at the time but was not authorised at that stage. What we found extraordinary, though, is that the information to support such a significant decision, whether from AI or elsewhere, was not cross-checked with other sources.

It was not just that WMP failed to do due diligence on the information that it presented to the SAG, which was responsible for taking the decision to ban away fans. They failed to prepare properly to give accurate information before the committee, the then chief constable told us explicitly that AI was not used by West Midlands Police, and that the reference to a match against West Ham had resulted from a Google search. This is a completely fictitious game that was cited as one of the reasons for banning the away fans.

He had to subsequently apologise that this was not the case. Precisely how West Midlands Police managed to generate inaccurate information using AI to inform the intelligence picture related to this match is the subject of an ongoing inquiry by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, so I'm sure we will hear more in due course. But whilst we accept that former Chief Constable did not deliberately misinform the committee, he should have ensured that he came armed with the facts rather than complacent platitudes followed by humble apologies.

But it is not the issues relating to competence that are the most damaging to the reputation of WMP. It is those around balance. Balance in the information presented to the SAG, which consistently emphasised the unique risk from the Macabbi fans and downplayed the risk emanating from local communities in Birmingham. Intelligence around elements in these communities threatening to arm themselves against Maccabi fans was not relayed to the SAG. There was also imbalance around community engagement. WMP acknowledged that they failed to engage with the Jewish community early enough, in contrast to a full programme of engagement with other communities.

They apologise for this and for managing to mislead the committee on the extent of engagement and acknowledge the damage done to relations with the Jewish community in the West Midlands. We welcome the commitment of the new Acting Chief Constable this week to continue its efforts to rebuild trust with the Jewish community and, more broadly, to address each of our recommendations. But I cannot stress strongly enough how vital it is that the Jewish community in Birmingham and the West Midlands is able to feel trust in their police because at the moment they simply don't.

As I've indicated, responsibility for the decision to exclude the Maccabi fans ultimately rested with Birmingham City Council through the provision of a safety certificate for the event, and the role of the SAG is to provide specialist safety advice regarding the event. In reaching its conclusions on advice relating to public order, it is heavily reliant on the advice of the police. We reviewed the content of all three SAG meetings that provided advice on the fixture. Having done so, we were not surprised that the chair of the SAG wrote to West Midlands Police, seeking further clarity on the rationale for the ban on away fans.

There were clearly some who were uncomfortable with this decision, not just Aston Villa, who said they were happy to host away fans, nor the leader of Birmingham City Council who expressed to us both his discontent with the decision, as well as his respect for the operational independence of the police and also the integrity of its advice in respect of the role of the SAG in this decision, we concluded that it failed to apply sufficient challenge to the clear recommendation of West Midlands Police regarding the banning away fans, and that it lacked the capability to balance the interests of local communities and those of the police against broader national and international considerations.

Given the unusual sensitivities surrounding this particular fixture, we welcome the review of guidance to SAG being undertaken by the Cabinet Office and recommended in our report that this considers whether an escalation process is required to handle these rare but highly consequential circumstances. As part of its review of the governance of the police, should review the presence of elected politicians on what are essentially safety oriented committees. As I have said, it is unusual for there to be a political context to such decisions.

But that was the case here, and whilst we did not see evidence of political pressure regarding the decision to ban away fans, we simply do not know what conversations went on behind the scenes. We did note that the Muslim community councillors on the SAG, who had publicly stated on whether the match should take place at all, had a disproportionate opportunity to influence the decision of the SAG. We conclude that elected politicians should not sit on sex. Finally, we scrutinise the role of the Home Office in the decision making process and that of the government.

Strictly speaking, there should not have been a role for government in a decision taken at a local authority level on the operational advice of the police. But number ten, recognised at an early stage the political significance of the match, and asked the Home Office to be kept informed of developments. There was also a DCMS interest as that department has lead responsibility for the safety of sports grounds. So this was a test of the ability of the government as a whole to identify whether it should have a role in the decision and, if so, to share information internally to enable any intervention to be made in a timely and effective manner.

And, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm afraid to say that this test was failed. The government was informed on the 6th of October, a month before the match, that a ban on away fans was the likely outcome of the process. It was the working assumption. If the government did not find this outcome politically palatable, you might think, Madam Deputy Speaker, that it would take prompt action to avert it, for example, by providing the necessary additional resources to enable the fixture to be policed safely and go ahead.

No such attempt was made. The Home Secretary and Ministers were not told definitively that there would be a ban on away fans. But we know she was briefed that it was a possible option. Home office officials were aware that a ban was the likely outcome, and we still don't know precisely when Ministers in the Home Office, DCMS and Number ten were informed of this. It was only on 16th of October, when the decision was announced that the government intervened in the form of a post on X by the Prime Minister, saying that this was the wrong decision.

Only at this point did officials begin exploring options with the police to enable away fans to attend. The Home Secretary argued that respect for the operational independence of the police did not allow earlier intervention, but this principle was inconsistently applied if the government could intervene publicly after the decision, could it not have intervened privately before the decision? We concluded that it could have done so in a way which respected the operational independence of the police and reduced, rather than inflamed tensions.

In the event, Maccabi Tel Aviv did not take up its allocation of tickets and the issue went away, but not without considerable damage being done to the reputation of West Midlands Police to trust in the police by the Jewish and other communities in Birmingham, and to the integrity of decision making around the policing of football and sporting events. We welcome the review of this decision making process announced by the government, and have urged the government to look again at a previous review of the policing of football by the noble Baroness Casey, and we look forward to examining the results.

Thank you.
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Karen Bradley Portrait Rt Hon Dame Karen Bradley MP (Staffordshire Moorlands, Conservative)
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Karen Bradley right hon. Friend >> Karen Bradley right hon. Friend for his question, and he makes an incredibly important point, and it incredibly important point, and it was really the basis of many of the questions that we put as a committee when we took evidence in committee when we took evidence in person, because the suspicion was there that the decision had been taken, not because of worries around violence from the Macabbi fans, but because of their religion. And, you know, it has to be said that two weeks later, another match went ahead at Aston Villa with away fans with a Swiss team, Young Boys, and there was significant violence and they managed to have away fans there when the violence did happen.

But nobody was suggesting that those should not attend, so we were very, very concerned. Now we could actual evidence of anti-Semitism, but the very fact that we had elected politicians who were campaigning not just for a ban on away fans, but for the whole match to be cancelled, sitting on the safety advisory group, which provided the advice to Birmingham City Council around the safety certificate that has to make give great concern and I know has given great concern to the Jewish community who are in contact with me in Birmingham, and I would urge all safety advisory groups to make sure that there is there cannot be any inference of political interference.

And there is nobody can think that there's political interference. They have to be fully transparent, and everyone has to appreciate and understand why decisions are taken. Yes.
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Karen Bradley Portrait Rt Hon Dame Karen Bradley MP (Staffordshire Moorlands, Conservative)
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Yeah. >> Karen Bradley I thank my friend from Strangford and he's absolutely right that sport has such a role to play in bringing us together. We've play in bringing us together. We've just seen it at the Winter Olympics. The joy that the athletes feel and the joy and the and the sense of the joy and the and the sense of pride in the country at the success of team GB. And it is one of those areas that shouldn't be political tension. There shouldn't be political issues, it should be something that is viewed joyfully and fans are allowed to to to enjoy their teams playing.

And that is something that we do so well in this country. This is why this is such a stain on us, because actually, throughout the years, we have managed to facilitate away fans attending games and enjoying those fixtures in a safe way. Football is not what it was in the past. It's a family game now. I go to football matches with my son all the time. I'm a regular attendee at many games and I enjoy the atmosphere and I enjoy the fact that it is somewhere that families can be, and so it is a great shame that didn't happen.

Now, the he asked specifically about the senior members of the police and obviously the then chief constable has retired now. But I think once we've had the completion of the conduct inquiry that there may be more further action might be taken.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

That is the end. Of the Select Committee statement. If anybody wishing to leave the chamber should do so very leave the chamber should do so very leave the chamber should do so very quickly. Right. I now call Louie French on a point of order in connection with the Code of Conduct

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connection with the Code of Conduct to rectify a failure to declare Louie French. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order, I would like to apologise to the House for failing to declare an interest when tabling three written parliamentary
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None Portrait Backbench Business: General Debate on St David’s Day and Welsh Affairs
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and it is a real privilege to open this debate as we come together to mark Saint David's Day and to
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Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones MP (Newport West and Islwyn, Labour)
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mark Saint David's Day and to discuss Wales's past, present and, critically, its future. I may not take all 15 minutes just to warn you, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I have other colleagues who will want to speak on this important debate. Now, this is my seventh St debate. Now, this is my seventh St David's Day debate and my second as chair of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, and I would like to Committee, and I would like to thank my colleagues, the hon. Member for Ceredigion, Preseli and the Member for North Dorset, who sadly is not in this place today for helping to secure this debate.

It continues to be an honour to chair the Welsh Affairs Committee and to facilitate the effective cross-party working, which makes the committee so special. We work together to achieve the best for Wales and I must thank all current and former members of the committee over the past year for their valuable and constructive contributions and I particularly want to commend the hon. Member for Caerfyrddin for her practical support of Welsh cakes for our committee meeting yesterday. Very useful, but I would also like to pay tribute to the fantastic clerks team led by Alison Groves, who support the committee.

We simply couldn't function without them and are incredibly lucky to have such diligent and skilled team assisting us now. It's been a busy year for the committee since our last St David's Day debate. We have four ongoing inquiries, with two reports set to be finalised in the coming months. We also published the conclusions of our inquiry into farming in Wales in November and following this, the Treasury then made very welcome changes to the thresholds for agricultural and business property relief. Now, let me now move on to the namesake of this debate, Saint David, who adorns the entrance to this this house coming from the central lobby.

He faced adversity from an early age, having been born in the middle of a violent storm as the child of an act of rape. Nevertheless, he would rise to become the first bishop of Malawi and establish new churches throughout South Wales, 50 of which are still named after him today. Saint David is commemorated as a great orator and preacher, spreading the Christian message. Indeed, one of his recorded miracles was forming a hill beneath himself as he preached to a large crowd to enable them to see and hear him more clearly.

As a nation, we are proud of our rich and storeyed past, kept alive by our vibrant oral tradition. The Eisteddfod each summer formed a key celebration of this oral tradition, our Welsh culture and the Welsh language. By attracting 170,000 visitors each year, from the chapels to the miners welfare halls. Wales is also renowned for being a land of song, regardless of the Rugby score, and we are trying to forget some of the latest scores, but you can be sure we are the loudest and proudest on and off the field.

Our choirs are not only a source of national pride, but are also often the bedrock of community solidarity. Wales has an enduring history of valuing fairness, solidarity and respect, values passed down from generation to generation and shaped by our history, but employ time and time again in our everyday lives. Indeed, before there was an NHS or a welfare state, Welsh communities came together to ensure dignity and respect for all. Of course I will.

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I commend and and just right to bring forward and praise the St David's Day and and everyone is here for that purpose. But does she also recognise why we can be Welsh, also recognise why we can be Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish or English? What brings us together is this great United Kingdom, of Great Britain and Ireland, and our Gaelic Britain and Ireland, and our Gaelic cousins in Wales, in Scotland and Northern Ireland are all part of that. So I commend hon. Lady for that.

So I commend hon. Lady for what she's doing, and today in this speech, and others will make a contribution, but always better

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together. Does she agree? I thank the hon. Member for Strangford and of course he's quite right. We are always better together and as a Gaelic colleague, together and as a Gaelic colleague, I welcome him to this debate today and I look forward to maybe his his contributions later on. But let me return to St David because he was return to St David because he was known for his austere lifestyle, surviving on a vegetarian vegetarian diet, mostly of leeks vegetarian diet, mostly of leeks and water.

Now, I'm not necessarily advocating that today for all of you, but his resilience has come to symbolise Wales resilience in the face of social challenge, including inequality and social disadvantage. Wales has. Wales has strong communities rooted in the place where they live, and this is a legacy of our rich working class heritage, a pride in place. Founded upon pride in work. Wales played a leading role in Britain's last industrial revolution as a centre of heavy industry including mining, quarrying, smelting and steelmaking, and this was recognised by our communities in continuing this place based story, I welcome this government's focus on restoring pride in place and driving investment into our former industrial communities.

Welsh councils are set to benefit from £280 million worth of funding in Pride in Place, alongside over £30 million of capital funding to invest in Wales's public realm. Whilst manufacturing might have defined Wales's path, it will also shape its future because Wales is still a proud manufacturing economy and manufacturing continues to be the biggest contributor to the Welsh economy in terms of output, employing over 150,000 people. This makes Wales an outlier in terms of the UK and an international leader in terms of advanced manufacturing, whether it be aerospace, automotive, defence or electronics.

We know Wales is leading the way. I am extremely proud that my constituency of Newport West and Islam is an exemplar in many of these industries of the future. Duffryn is home to the world's first compound semiconductor cluster with Vishay IC, the catapult and KLA. And just across the road, Airbus is innovating cyber security solutions for aerospace, and Safran are providing deluxe seats and even beds for airlines in Blackwood. General dynamics are busy outfitting the future of Britain's mechanised defence forces, and in Marshfield, Microsoft Advantage are building a number of data centres as part of the New South Wales AI Growth Zone.

As Wales positively embraces the Fourth Industrial Revolution, I welcome the efforts by the Welsh and UK governments to address the adverse impacts of the last. As a former physiotherapist, I have treated miners with lung conditions like pneumoconiosis and silicosis, so I know how profound and lasting these impacts have been. The human environmental impacts have been great and long lasting, and we are not going back there. I'm also I'm also proud to represent a former mining area, which would greatly benefit from this government's decision to return the £2.3 billion to former British Coal staff in the autumn Budget.

And these pensions are long overdue and I welcome their return now. But whilst the pits may be gone, the bonds of solidarity and community spirit embedded within it are still clear for all to see. A prominent example of this is the Kevin Forrest Miners Institute, first built in 1935 and funded by contributions from local coal miners, it's now been lovingly restored by the village. It reopened in November after being closed for 15 years, and now acts as a renewed hub for the community, hosting shows and events and at the same time.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I'd also like to pay tribute to the fantastic Cross Keys Silver Band, which was formed in 1902 by the local mining community and of course is still going strong today and I would recommend any concerts they provide. Really, I would I welcome the strong, coordinated response by the UK and Welsh Governments, putting forward a combined record £230 million over the next four years to improve coal tip safety. The new multi-year approach being taken by both governments was much needed.

The Welsh Affairs Select Committee has also been looking at in detail about prisons, probation and rehabilitation in Wales and this is an area of significant public policy concern in Wales because we have the highest incarceration rate in Western Europe, with 177 Welsh residents in prison per 100,000 of population. The committee were pleased to receive oral evidence from Prime from Prisons Minister Lord Timpson, who I know is committed to driving forward work to address reoffending and improve our prison system. As part of our inquiry, we have looked at a wide range of issues including prison management, housing and education support, as well as the provision of healthcare and services in the Welsh language.

The committee has also considered the specific experiences of women in the criminal justice system, but of particular concern has been the ongoing management of issues at HMP Parc. Following the 17 deaths in 2024, and we will continue to scrutinise the working arrangements there to ensure the safety of inmates and staff alike. Despite our inquiry being ongoing, the committee has already had some early wins, with the Ministry of Justice agreeing to our requests for the publication of an annual Wales specific justice data set, the first of which was published in September.

And now I want to close by talking to the future and the big choices facing the people of Wales in just a few months time in Wales in May. Wales faces a profound choice about its future to move forward with a clear plan and track record of delivery with Eluned Morgan and Welsh Labour, or to turn inward and embrace a politics of grievance and division. Whilst Wales relied on devolution to protect itself from the worst of the Conservative and Lib Dem austerity for 14 years.

This period, thankfully, has now ended and Wales can face the future and invest. We now have a Labour government each end of the M4 working together for Wales, providing a record devolved financial settlement for 2026 and year on year increases in borrowing powers for the Welsh Government. Delivering on our manifesto. This means an additional £6 billion funding for our schools, hospitals and public services. And in the Senate, this record funding is being put to work. Waiting lists in Wales have fallen for the last seven months in a row, and are now the lowest they've been in three years.

We're seeing serious long term investment in improving literacy and numeracy in our schools, and significant additional support for local businesses seeking to grow. Just last week, we saw our two governments in partnership announcing the end of the historic underinvestment in Wales railways, with a shared ambition for £14 billion worth of upgrades across north, south, mid and west Wales, including new stations at Newport, Western Cardiff Parkway near Marshfield in my constituency. This week the House voted to abolish the cruel two child limit, which is set to benefit almost 70,000 children across Wales over 2000.

In my own constituency from April. This change will slash child poverty in Wales by 10% overnight. None of this is an accident. It's a product of joint vision of a fairer future for Wales, rooted in social justice and delivering the jobs, transport and opportunities people need to thrive. The path of progress may be slow and difficult, but that does not make it any less valuable. Now is not the time to put this partnership at risk. Just as we are beginning to see good news and developments across Wales.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank the backbench backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate to take place on St David's Day and I look forward to hearing the

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contributions of other colleagues now. Georgia Gould. Well. The question is as on the Order

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The question is as on the Order Paper and I call Ben Lake. Madam Deputy. Speaker, and. Can I begin. By thanking.

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Can I begin. By thanking. The hon. Member for Newport. West. For opening this. Debate and indeed for her work as the chair of indeed for her work as the chair of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. As she mentioned in her speech, we do work as a as a team for Wales do work as a as a team for Wales and the committee and it's good that we have this opportunity today not only to talk about the work of the committee, but also to the wider House, about the wonders of Wales and how great St David's Day
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Ben Lake Portrait Ben Lake MP (Ceredigion Preseli, Plaid Cymru)
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is. Madam Deputy Speaker, St David is famous for having said that we should do the little things, and it is in that spirit that I would like to dedicate my my speech to small businesses, which, as is the case across Wales, forms the backbone of our economy. And in my constituency our economy. And in my constituency of cardigan, as much as 81% of of businesses are classified as small businesses are classified as small businesses, making it the small business capital of Wales, an accolade that we are very proud to hold.

35% of those businesses are in the agricultural, fisheries and forestry sectors and some 15% are in the hospitality and tourism sectors. And although the winter months are always quite difficult for those industries, in recent weeks I've had a chance to to meet with a number of small business groups from Aberystwyth in the north to Fishguard and Goodwick in the south. My constituency and and unfortunately they've all told a tale of, of some difficulties and challenges that they're facing as small employers.

And I think I should like just to draw the House's attention to these concerns, that there are cumulative pressures that are having a real severe impact on their ability to trade and indeed their ability to continue in business. And they've cited to me the impact of rising energy costs, of higher employment costs, and indeed the burden of increased business rates. And and although this is not a problem that's unique to. Preseli, it's found out by the Federation of Small Businesses. It's equally true across the UK.

And indeed, according to recent research by that body, it's estimated that from April this year, the typical high street business will face some £25,000. Extra unemployment costs £1,600 in higher energy standing charges. Now, we all agree that this sort of incessant rise in costs and small businesses is simply unsustainable. And unfortunately, too many are now citing that the pressures have become so acute that 35% have said that they are planning to close or contract over the coming year.

Now, this would be devastating for economies across the Kingdom, but specifically in the small business capital of Wales that is Ceredigion, Preseli. And so, in the spirit of doing the small things and in advance of the spring statement next week, I thought I'd draw the attention of the House to some measures that these businesses have suggested the government could take to help them build a a firmer and more prosperous future on our energy costs. Businesses. With an annual electricity consumption of around 40,000 kilowatt hours, which is a typical small restaurant, gym or cafe currently, look at a potential rise in their standing charge of some 40%.

Now, one proposal potentially the government could entertain is to mirror the support that it is offering for household bills to that for non-domestic bills. And that is, of course, the 75% reduction in the renewable obligation costs from energy bills for businesses that would offer much needed support to many of the businesses in Ceredigion. Another point that they wanted me to to raise was the pressure arising, pressure of employment costs and indeed between January of last year and April this year, an employer of, say, nine people on the National Living Wage will see their annual employment costs increase by an equivalent of 12.9% and the employer national insurance bill over that two year period would have increased by 46%.

One proposal that they've suggested that the government could entertain next week is actually to uprate the employment allowance, so that it continues to cover the employers National Insurance contributions, or for employees on the national living wage. That, again, would offer such such great support to the businesses that I've spoken to in cardigan, Preseli. And then the final thing, of course, is businesses. And I know colleagues from across the House will have had a lot of concerns in their post bags and inboxes in recent weeks.

Now it is for the Welsh and Welsh Government to look at the reliefs and how they offer additional support to small businesses. The one thing I think would be worth this House and this government considering, is the way in which the valuation process actually operates. One common concern of businesses is that it lacks transparency and clarity as to how valuations are actually calculated, with some businesses in the hospitality and trade, for example, citing that their rates are primarily driven by turnover as opposed to profitability, whereas in retail is primarily fixed on the square metre of their shops.

This inconsistency is troubling, but also the lack of clarity in terms of how the Valuation Office Agency, as it was, has come to calculations, is causing quite a significant degree of concern. Now, the measures that could help specific businesses, and I should mention these before I close Madam Deputy Speaker relates to the tourism hospitality industry. A a concern of theirs has long been the rate of VAT in the UK. It's currently set at 20%. And and again, they would be really, really grateful if the government could look again at the rate of VAT to, to, to decrease it to 15% would offer them much needed breathing space to withstand some of these increased pressures and costs, but also the opportunity to invest in their businesses and in their staff.

Something that we all know we want to see if we if we are to bring about economic growth across the land. And indeed, other countries have shown that when you do reduce the rate of VAT for tourism, hospitality, it can bring about significant benefits. And then the other point that I'd like to to raise is that the removal of the automatic 10% wear and tear tax allowance for childminders that comes into force from April this year. Childminders in my constituency have long used, have long been used to meet the cost of the inevitable damage and maintenance costs that arises from hosting their businesses in their homes, and have told me that the move to this new system really, really is forcing them to reconsider their ability to continue in this critical and key sector.

So if the government could look again at that, I know there'll be a lot of childminders. My constituency would be very grateful to them. And of course, this is all important because for rural constituencies such as mine, if we don't have small businesses offering that economic growth, offering those employment

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opportunities, I will. Yes. Thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Would he not agree with me that we have the not agree with me that we have the green shoots of recovery already in the economy? We've got interest rates going down, retail sales are up. And with the massive investment up. And with the massive investment in rail that we've seen recently, £14 billion, that's going to help every single small business and

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every single small business and every single person across Wales. I'm grateful to the hon. Member for her intervention. I think I would agree with her that the investment in rail will do a great deal of good for businesses in her constituency. Of course, it's not the same for mine, sadly, due to historic structures of the railway network in that she nods her head. But the fact of the matter is, I've only had three stations and their terminals, and so sadly, the investment that's been announced won't quite reach us yet.

But I do hope that in due course we will be receiving further announcements of investment in in the Cambrian Lines and also the West Wales lines. And I'd very much welcome and applaud actually the government if they were to do so. But of course for rural areas such as the hon. Member for Monmouth and mine, the outflow of young people is a big, big concern. And in my part of the world, the last census, 6% overall decline in the overall population is a real worry for us.

And so that's why it's so important to ensure that we support these small businesses. And in closing, Madam Speaker, it would be remiss of me not to brandish my constituency's links with St David. He was, of course, born just to the south of my constituency boundary in in the area of St David's Day. But he was, according to legend, raised along the Oregon coast. And of course, as the hon. Member for Newport West mentioned, performed one of his most famous miracles in the village of Flannery.

And if I needed to really underline his credentials, he was the grandson of a cardigan king, and perhaps because of that, we have so many St David's Day events across Canada from parades in Aberystwyth, cardigan, Fishguard as well as the towns of Lampeter, Tregaron and Aberaeron. The ladies of the Celtic longboats at Aberporth did the voyage from Aberporth to Shannon. The village, which is named after Saint David's mother, nun, and then of course, the Caol Evening held across my constituency and the A Stafford this weekend in Vernon and Cromer, but also schools across the constituency.

I should just like to to place on record my gratitude to the to all those community volunteers and community champions who put on these events and ensure that St David's Day is a very joyous occasion. And if I may, Madam Deputy Speaker, wish you a

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very Dydd gwyl Dewi hapus. Thank you so much, Gerald Jones. Thank you.

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Thank you. Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak in this St David's Day Welsh affairs debate. Today I rise to raise a number of issues affecting my constituency in affecting my constituency in Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare. First of all, I was so pleased that this Labour government is making huge steps in tackling child poverty. The removal of the two child cap, as we've heard, will represent the biggest action to tackle child
12:55
Gerald Jones Portrait Gerald Jones MP (Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare, Labour)
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poverty in any single parliament. My constituency has some of the highest levels of child poverty in highest levels of child poverty in Wales, and this single act will lift around 2600 children out of poverty in my constituency and nearly 70,000 across Wales. The previous Minister for employment, previous Minister for employment, the hon. Member for Birkenhead, came to meet local organisations and charities as part of the government's consultation on the government's consultation on the Child Poverty Strategy last year, and the single message from that event was that the removal of the cap would be the most important thing to tackle tackle child poverty locally.

It's a huge step forward and shows the difference of a Labour government in action. Madam Deputy Speaker, I raised in this House in November as part of the Budget debate the high levels of fuel prices in my constituency and in Merthyr Tydfil particularly, I first wrote to fuel suppliers around two years ago, highlighting that fuel prices in Merthyr Tydfil were around £0.10 per litre more expensive than anywhere else across the valleys. In fact, Madam Deputy Speaker, fuel here in London is cheaper than in Merthyr Tydfil.

In 2024 I wrote to all the fuel suppliers locally, highlighting the unfairness of their prices. I also wrote to the Competition and Markets Authority asking them to look into the matter, and so far they have not felt the need to act. But all the while my constituents are paying over the odds and some have questioned whether some local suppliers are colluding to keep prices higher than they need to be. In January, I met with Asda to stress that they are. Merthyr Tydfil store was selling fuel at 8 to 10 per litre, higher than any other nearby Asda store, in fact higher than the Asda store in the Aberdare part of my constituency by £0.10 per litre and higher than any other store in South Wales.

To be fair, Asda agreed that their prices were high and agreed to reduce their prices and within three days of that meeting they dropped their fuel prices in Merthyr Tydfil store by £0.05 per litre, a step forward, a step in the right direction, absolutely, but still higher than elsewhere. Meanwhile, other petrol stations Esso, Texaco, Applegreen continue continue to be significantly higher than elsewhere. Many of my constituents in Merthyr Tydfil, if if they need to go out of the town for work or leisure, they fill up.

They don't fill up locally anymore. There are many people who work locally, though, and indeed many older people who may not have a choice and end up paying over the odds. And given the deprivation and levels of child poverty that exist in Merthyr Tydfil, it's immoral that fuel suppliers continue to appear to rip off local people. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, this is not a short term situation. It has been the case for almost two years now. In the recent Budget, the Chancellor introduced the fuel finder scheme that forces suppliers to publicise their fuel prices within 30 minutes of increasing them, or decreasing for that matter.

This will help consumers in finding cheaper fuel. But sadly for the moment in Merthyr Tydfil, consumers don't have too many options other than travelling to other towns and villages to fill up. By raising it today, I hope that my hon. Friend, the Secretary of State may be able to add her voice to the call on fuel suppliers to do the right thing by my constituents and act in a fairer way, whilst as MPs, we do not have the authority to tell private suppliers what they can charge for their products by calling this out for what it is, I hope that suppliers will recognise that they need to act, and I hope that the CMA will also come to the table to take whatever action they can.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you may know that my constituency is home to General Dynamics, where the Ajax vehicles are being assembled, and recently the Mod has conducted investigations following noise and vibration concerns from army personnel. Whilst I and I know the government rightly prioritise safety, we need to have an outcome. As soon as the 700 workers in my constituency need assurances on their future and the future of that work, the £50 million Wales Defence Growth Deal, signed by the Secretary of State, the Defence Secretary and the Welsh First Minister just last week, signifies this government's intent to invest in defence and I very much welcome that investment.

It also provides yet another example of two Labour governments working together to create jobs and prosperity for the people of Wales. I'm keen to ensure that my constituency continues to play a part in supplying defence capabilities for the nation. In the 19th century, Merthyr Tydfil, at the height of the Industrial Revolution, was the largest iron producing town in the world. The ironworks in my constituency supplied cannons and cannonballs to the Royal Navy, and in the 21st century the workforce at General Dynamics is keen to continue in that tradition, and I hope that we can soon move on with Ajax and secure and grow the much needed jobs in my constituency and across the South Wales Valleys.

Madam Deputy Speaker, there is much to be positive about this St David's Day. This government has delivered the largest Budget and spending review settlement since devolution, providing the Welsh Government with a record £22.4 billion per year on average. And the Welsh Government is investing in public services and driving down waiting lists after years of underinvestment under the Tories, the NHS is improving across Wales and right across the UK. Waiting lists in Wales are down, as we've heard for seven consecutive months, and outpatient appointments are increasing all the time.

The increased national minimum wage and the living wage has given a pay rise to 160,000 Welsh workers, and for the second year in a row, the state pension is due to increase yet again by 4.8% from April, meaning it will increase to £241 for the full state pension. It's also welcome the decision to right the historic wrong with the Mineworkers Pension Scheme and the British Coal Triple S scheme, benefiting hundreds of ex-miners in my constituency, a real boost to to miners and their families across the constituency.

The last issue I'd like to talk about, Madam Deputy Speaker, is tourism and the role that the valleys play in attracting visitors to Wales. But I know that tourism is largely devolved to the Welsh Government. There's also a role for the UK government to in my area, to name a few. We already have ZIP World Bike Park Wales, The Summit Indoor Climbing Centre and its new old Drift Wellness Centre, which I visited last week during February recess. Just to explain, the centre involves a sauna room but also outdoor tin baths with cold water, which I which I didn't partake in on that occasion because it was around two degrees and and raining.

But there were people there enjoying that facility and it is becoming a real attraction in the local area. And I'm told that they are having visitors from across Wales and beyond as they as they take forward that new venture. So I very much welcome that new addition to to the constituency. Members may know that earlier this year, Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council agreed planning permission for Redcar West, a £300 million project that will create the UK's largest ski slope and a tropical water park.

And this has created huge excitement locally and will again be a very welcome addition to the tourism we offer. Madam Deputy Speaker. The Aberdeen North Tunnel is a historic disused railway tunnel built in the 1850s as part of the Vale of Neath Railway, linking both parts of what is now my constituency, Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare. It has huge potential as a tourist attraction and a new walkway and cycleway linking both communities. Both Rhondda Cynon Taff Council and Merthyr Tydfil Council are keen to develop its potential and working with them to offer support.

The tunnel is currently owned by the Department of Transport, but discussions are currently underway to transfer ownership of the tunnel to be converted into a tourist attraction, cycle and walkway, finally, Keir Mather Castle is an iconic part of Merthyr Tydfil industrial past, home of the Crawshay family and base for the ironworks that transformed Merthyr Tydfil during the Industrial Revolution. The castle last year celebrated its 200th anniversary and had a very welcome royal visit from the Majesties, the King and Queen on the King's birthday last November, where he cut a cake that was made by a local person in the shape of a castle.

Very impressive, I must say. It was a pity to to cut it, but His Majesty did enjoy the cake, as did all the other people that were there on that occasion. Sadly, though, the Castle Museum is in need of significant repairs. The local authority and the Welsh Government have made financial contribution and urgent work is currently underway. There is a Heritage Lottery bid currently underway and other forms of funding are being considered. And as I said, tourism is mainly devolved to the Welsh Government, but I know the UK government may have an interest too, because I do occasionally support projects across Wales and hopefully all efforts can be looked at to safeguard this historic castle for future generations.

It truly is an iconic sort of focal point within the town of Merthyr Tydfil. So in closing, Madam Deputy Speaker St David said do the little things and I have to say there are lots of little improvements and indeed larger ones happening across Wales that are gradually improving the lives of my constituents and many

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others across Wales. Thank you. The Member for Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare didn't suggest an away day

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Aberdare didn't suggest an away day in the bath for his party. Maybe next, maybe next. Ann Davies Cheltenham. Fylde madam.

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Fylde madam. And can I just refer the house to my register of interests? As co-chair of the Anti-pipeline Group and also the president of the Farmers Union of Wales in
13:05
Ann Davies Portrait Ann Davies MP (Caerfyrddin, Plaid Cymru)
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Farmers Union of Wales in Carmarthenshire, from the Forest of Dean for the first Eisteddfod, which was held in Aberteifi in. In addition to the Rebecca riots, to the coal mines and the tin and copper works of decades past, my consistency of my constituency, my constituency of Caerfyrddin is marked by history. We are proud of our shared stories of our communities and our beautiful landscape, which we do our best to protect. When I was elected as MP for Caerfyrddin in July 24th, it was on the back of a local campaign against new electricity infrastructure.

And not because we are NIMBYs. I'll get that in straight away, but because because we found a factual, feasible alternative which put our land and our communities first. And to grounding these cables instead of using pylons. Three years on, we are still working hard to persuade the Labour Welsh Government that this is the way forward. When we started this journey, the cost comparative stood at around 7 to 10 times more expensive. Now latest figures are around 3 to 4 and in Norway there is one study which gives an average of 1.8 times more expensive for undergrounding over pylons.

So in just three years the comparatives have been drastically reduced. But in honesty, all costings are time and project specific. Now my party Plaid Cymru policy on new infrastructure is clear. All 11 to 132 kilovolt lines should be underground unless it's for a specific reason. This cannot happen. For example, going through peatlands where a ten metre pole would be used instead of the usual impact assessments would also need to be considered as per current planning policy. Visual, ecological language and community, and we would work with communities, not against them, while safeguarding our heritage.

Our chain of castles, ancient hill forts and viaducts. This is our land and it's our history we need to protect. And it's not just pylons either. Over 400 wind turbines are planned to be built across my constituency and the neighbouring constituencies of Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe and Preseli. These are huge, up to 230m tall. And as we look over the river and see the London Eye, that's 202m, these are even taller than that, 400 of those across the eye line in my constituency.

Plaid Cymru supports green energy that delivers real benefits to our communities, but the transition must be shaped around people and place, and not imposed at a scale that alienates those who are being asked to host it. Instead of concentrating development in vast projects that dominate our landscapes, Applied company government would prioritise community centred solutions. We would refocus efforts on community energy, and we would introduce retrofit standards to upgrade more homes and more quickly. Green Energy in Wales is a success story and our communities understand the need for it.

Indeed, most people are passionately committed to playing their part in the transition. My concern is that the sheer scale of these proposed developments, combined with the bullish approach taken by some developers, risks undermining the goodwill and the positivity that has defined Wales's green energy journey so far. This extractive economy needs to change and again, we have a solution. Having a ten kilometre gap between each wind farm would significantly reduce this number and still generate more than enough electricity.

This would safeguard some of the villages within my constituency of Pencarreg and human farmers and pimps, and up towards two huge, two huge wind farms are already licensed in the Celtic Sea and the Crown Estate are proposing another three. So we know we are going to generate far more electricity than we need. So I just ask the question. I gently ask the question do we need to spoil our more rural landscapes by placing turbines in areas on which people still live, still farm the land, still have a vibrant Welsh speaking community? Do we need 400 turbines in a relatively small area? And speaking of rural communities, the next battle on our hands in Caerfyrddin is to have a banking hub in Ammanford and the last bank has closed.

And to be honest, I don't blame Lloyds. They had remained when others had long gone. However, I just wish we'd been able to secure a banking hub before they had closed. And while 23,709 people live around the Ammanford area, only 7444 live around the High Street. So we fall short of the 10,000 people needed for a banking hub. But as we all know around our post-industrial towns, the valleys are part of that town. You cannot separate the two and the surrounding villages just merge into the town, and the town just merges into the villages.

And that's certainly true of Ammanford. Blaenau Sarah Owen, Glanamman, up to Brynamman and many, many more all form parts of the cinnamon. Deprivation is high, unemployment is high, the lack of opportunities is high. And since Lloyds closed at the beginning of January, the market, which is a Friday, sees a queue of residents outside the post office trying to get access to cash mainly elderly, elderly, mainly digitally excluded and not being able to, or really not wanting to use a laptop or a tablet.

And some older constituents going to extreme lengths just to access their own money, paying extortionate amount to get a taxi into town and then giving their car to the taxi driver and their pin number to get that cash out from the ATM link might say that the nearest ATM is close enough, and it is if you're fit and mobile and able to get there independently. But that simply isn't the reality for many elderly or disabled residents who cannot make that journey safely, easily or affordably.

Access to cash should be affordable to all. So I've

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signatories. By all means, thank you. Thank you for giving way. And when she talks about the banking when she talks about the banking hub in Redmond, I'm I'm very close to her constituency as well. So that would benefit my constituents. that would benefit my constituents. And I'd like to thank link also for working with local councillors in Mumbles and Gorseinon to have a Mumbles and Gorseinon to have a banking hub. So I think she will be very successful in her plight to

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have a banking hub in Redmond. Thank you. Can I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention? We're working closely with with link and the FCA in order that we get as much information as we can in order to secure this, because this is what our communities need. They deserve to have their money and being able to get the cash safely, their own money safely out. My constituent, my community means everything to to me. The history of the heritage of Caerfyrddin is interwoven within my veins.

And I've said here before, I've only moved four miles in my entire life, and I have no intention of moving any further than that. I love where I live and I love the people of where I live. And it's it's a privilege to to live there. And I, along with others, want the best for my patch. So I was delighted to see a new post office being opened in Whitland after a sustained period of absence. And when we're looking for access to cash, let's look for opportunities to place a post office within a local shop, a convenience store, even a pub.

Because it increases footfall. It gives businesses an opportunity to increase turnover and to expand naturally. I have a few villages that are currently looking for this opportunity and one is the township of Larne, famous, of course, for Dylan Thomas's boathouse, a place where he wrote Under Milk Wood and where he, along with his late wife Caitlin, are buried in the churchyard. These are inevitably decisions for local community, but I really, really hope they find a resolution. So, and as David's last words were, do the little things Ayoub Khan I ask for collaboration between large organisations like link, the FCA, the Post Office to work closely with our communities to ensure that access to cash is a reality for everyone.

Rural communities are unique in a way that they work. It isn't the same for a city or a large town. It doesn't automatically work. What works there doesn't work in the rural community and there is no one fits one size fits all solution for this. And this brings me back to finish, madam, to my community. Caerfyrddin is filled with castles, history and heritage, but it's also filled with talent, entrepreneurship and vision. So let's harness those qualities and work together to help make the place we are so proud of to thrive and prosper in line with what our community needs, wants and deserves.

And let's do that together.

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I am wanting to disappoint Miss Davies, but I can't sign your petition because I have my own petition for a banking hub in the town of Crowborough, which obviously colleagues are more than

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welcome to sign up to if they wish to. And I call Jessica Morden. Thank you very much, Madam

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Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker to you and. Happy early St David's Day to all and well done to my constituency well done to my constituency neighbour for an excellent contribution and open to today's debate. And we're all going to say it be joyful, keep the faith and do the little things. The final words
13:16
Jessica Morden Portrait Jessica Morden MP (Newport East, Labour)
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of our patron saint and the Prime Minister, in fact, made those Minister, in fact, made those remarks in his remarks at the St David's Day reception in number ten on Monday, which was an excellent event, and it afforded us the opportunity to invite people who do opportunity to invite people who do extraordinary things in our constituencies to come along. And I brought along Mark Seymour, who alongside his team in Newport when the sanctuary project, which was with refugees and asylum seekers in Newport.

So today on that theme, I want to begin by recognising some more extraordinary Newport Onians who perform small, kind and positive actions that help our community in Newport to be exactly what it is starting sadly, with I'd like to pay tribute to my constituent Martin Butler, who sadly passed away this weekend. Martin was the co-founder of the Terrence Higgins Trust, setting up one of the first Aids helplines in 1983 from his own home phone telephone. His tireless work right up until his death, raising awareness of HIV testing and Prep has helped contribute to a 20% fall in new HIV cases in Wales in 2024, with more people being tested than ever before.

That legacy will be felt for generations and we send our love very much to his family. He's a lovely, lovely man. Then there's Emma Webb, a bereaved mother whose daughter took her own life in 2020, aged just 16. And from the depths of her grief, Emma has spent every day since campaigning to raise awareness for suicide prevention. She has walked hundreds of miles with a life sized model pony, raised thousands of pounds and worked relentlessly to save lives. And I really thank her from the bottom of my heart.

And I've also had the pleasure of welcoming this year, 11 year old Sophia, from Newport East to Westminster. She lives with juvenile arthritis and uses her incredible energy and really infectious positivity to raise awareness and improve support for children. Just like her. She's clearly going to rule the world and she's a brilliant example to us all. And the big privilege of this role is to work and meet and work with these remarkable people who show just so much resilience. And it's this same resilience that has carried our city through challenging times.

After more than a decade of austerity, I'm really glad to see the damage done by the Conservatives beginning to be undone. The recent announcement that work will begin this year to build two new railway stations in Newport East, has been warmly welcomed by businesses and residents alike. I was also really oh, I will I don't know what she's

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going to say. I think. I thank. My hon. Friend for giving way, and she mentioned her new railway stations, and I just wanted to pay stations, and I just wanted to pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who used to be the MP where I am now, the MP, to be the MP where I am now, the MP, and we've got the major railway station. So will she join me in welcoming that new station? But welcoming that new station? But also a big thank you to her for all the work she's done with the Mega

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Rail Group to make that station a reality. And I thank my friend for being just so generous. I'd also like to thank her for the work that she's done carrying it on, and she's been relentless in this chamber at every single opportunity. But also the Mega Rail Group, who are just absolutely fantastic and a privilege to work with and absolutely well done for them too. I was also pleased to see the proposed Caerleon station included in the Rail Vision for Wales, and my hon.

Friend has been very supportive of that, as has Ms. Jane Bryant, and I commend very much the tracks group in Caerleon for their commitment for securing a station for the town and support them all the way. This investment of many millions of pounds and it is, is part of £14 billion commitment to rail in Wales. It's just one example of how the people in Newport East are feeling the benefit of two governments working together, and that's really important. And another example of that is due to a good settlement is the Labour run council in Newport and to the very energetic and very resourceful leadership of Dimitri Betrone.

It's announced this week the biggest investment in roads, infrastructure and schools in living memory with a £40 million commitment. This includes 15 million to repair and resurface our roads and pavements, all of which have shown the impact of 14 years of Tory austerity. There's also half a million for our city centres, invaluable grassroots sports clubs match funding for people like Newport County and the Dragons. More funding to tackle Flytipping much more. All the kinds of priorities residents tell us about that matter to them.

And it's and it's due in part to, well, it's due totally to the massive 6.1 funding increase from the Welsh Government, which is due to the Chancellor's decisions flowing down to the Welsh Government. It's really important that part Lordship Woking crime and anti-social behaviour in our city centre remains one of our top concerns. So I was really pleased to hear from Gwent Police that reported crime has fallen over the past year, with shoplifting down 20% across our city and anti-social behaviour seen a steep decline during November.

That's due to increased investment from this UK Labour government and the hard work of Gwent Police and the extra measures they're deploying, including new Project Vigilance scheme, which will help protect women and girls who are out and about in the night time economy in our city centre. And it's a really massively good initiative. I commend they've also. Gwent Police confirmed that by the end of March, every single neighbourhood policing team in Newport will be up to full establishment and that's delivering on an absolutely key and very important manifesto pledge.

So I commend that. The news of the 20 million prize in place, money for Newport has been warmly welcomed also, and it will allow us to invest in the regeneration in the city centre and surrounding areas. And this complements the work already going on in the city centre and the leisure centre, which is going up. I think my hon. Friend would agree. It's an alarming rate and the ongoing restoration of our Newport Transporter Bridge, which benefited from a further 5 million of UK government funding.

It's their AGM tonight and we hope to get there if we can get there in time, don't we? So I'm also would like to acknowledge Newport, my support for Newport Council's expression of interest for the Town of Culture competition and particularly Killians bid as one of the most significant and best understood Roman legionary sites in the former empire and a strong community. I think it'd be a really worthy winner. So let's hope that happens to the future. A bit of competition there from Newport, significant history to a really promising future.

The announcement of the AI growth zone from the UK government represents a really exciting prospect for our city, which we want to grasp. We have, as my hon. Friend and neighbours said, globally significant tech companies like KLA and urine just yesterday for an event already based here. Further investment in sites and jobs is really welcome, particularly in a city with the with the fastest growing city in Wales were also the youngest city in Wales with the fastest growing population of under 16.

So we really want to work with that. Sitting at the heart of Silicon, Newport is not just part of the new industrial revolution, it's driving it with the strategic location we're on, the vital grid connections and a talented workforce. We've got all absolutely all the assets that modern industry is competing to secure. And of course, all of this development and new infrastructure needs steel to look forward to. I always have to mention steel and seeing the government's steel plan when it's published in the next few weeks, and pay tribute, as always, to those who work in the steel industry in Newport East, its people, its geography, its grit, its determination set Newport apart from anywhere else, but also has something else momentum.

And to the inspired leadership of our council and the support from the UK government and the Welsh Government, we are really, absolutely seizing the opportunity at the moment. Newport's ready for this moment. Huge investments are coming, innovation is accelerating. The city's strong communities are leading the way. We are not looking back. We are positive and ambitious. We are not about the politics of grievance and of division. We are seizing the opportunities for the Newport and the future and want to work and take every opportunity to build on that here.
13:25
Nia Griffith Portrait Dame Nia Griffith MP (Llanelli, Labour)
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Nia Griffith thank you very much. >> Nia Griffith thank you very much. >> Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker, and a very happy St David's Day to and a very happy St David's Day to you and everyone here. I'd like to just congratulate my hon. Friend, the Member for Newport West and the Member for Newport West and this line on taking the initiative for this debate. And it's a pleasure to have the opportunity in the St David's Day debate to highlight some of the very positive steps that this UK Labour government is taking to drive economic growth in Wales, create more and better jobs and help people cope with the cost of living crisis.

Of course, it's our job as politicians to face up to the problems and to tackle them, but too often we overlook the success stories, the real drive and determination of factory managers and business owners whose enterprises are doing well in spite of what are often challenging circumstances. Just in the last couple of weeks, I visited three such businesses. It's inspiring to see shuffle bottoms in cross hands. Well known locally for their steel frames, agricultural buildings, they're now winning contracts for school buildings, the Mod and leisure centres, including the splendid new penthouse building in Llanelli, a Swansea Bay city region project financed by both the UK and Welsh governments.

And then we have Dave Timberhill, whose beer park located at Daventry Park in Anna Turley. I know you know it well. Located at Daventry Trade Park, was named last year as the best independent beer and cider retailer in the UK. It was shortlisted again this year for this prestigious drinks retailing awards. And then we have designer, the design company that just moved from a work from home Start-Up to taking on another full time employee and opening a premises in Anna Turley town centre.

So three very different businesses, but which each provide quality goods and contribute to our local economy. But we must be under no illusion that the task we faced after 14 years of Tory austerity, which saw not only swingeing cuts to our public services, but also wage freezes and benefit freezes, those, coupled with the Tory cost of living crisis, has made life very, very difficult for my constituents in Anna Turley time and time again, I hear from people across my constituency that it's the cost of living crisis, which is their biggest concern.

Working every hour they can and still struggling to make ends meet. So tackling that cost of living crisis is an absolute priority for both the UK and the Welsh Labour Government. That's why it's so important that we have put up the national minimum wage and the national Living Wage. It's important to make sure that work pays and workers absolutely need and deserve those increases. Moreover, we've made a particular increase for the 18 to 20 year old rate as a step towards bringing it up to the rate for 21 year olds.

I'm delighted that we're now removing the two child benefit cap. I had the privilege of working on the Child Poverty Task Force, and we looked at the full range of possible ways of taking children out of poverty, and this is the most effective change that we can make. The imposition of the two child limit by the Conservatives when they were in power has pushed hundreds of thousands of children into poverty, damaging their health, their education, their life chances. In my constituency of Llanelli alone, an estimated 2200 children will benefit from the change, giving them the foundation they need to succeed in school and to go on to get well, secure, well-paid jobs.

We're also uprating the Universal Credit To increase, benefiting some 320,000 households in Wales. And we're keeping the triple lock on the state pension, meaning that it will increase by 4.8% this April, raising incomes for 700,000 pensioners in Wales. And we're sticking to our pledge of no increases in income tax and employment in employee National Insurance contributions or VAT. Furthermore, we've seen many cuts in interest rates, bringing down mortgage costs and business loan costs. Now, I also welcome the decision by this Labour government to save householders some £150 on their domestic energy bills from April this year.

This will be particularly beneficial to those who rely heavily on electricity for those, for example, whose homes are not on the mains gas network, of which there are many. In the more rural parts of the constituency. And let's not forget also that Welsh Government has rolled out the universal free school meal programme for all primary school pupils in Wales. A real help to many families now in terms of public services. The UK Labour Government is is ending that Tories austerity and is providing Welsh Government with the best settlement since the evolution some £22.4 billion on average for each of three years, so that they can plan ahead and they can now begin to rebuild and improve public services.

But it will take time. In some instances, additional work can be started immediately in other areas, such as specialist areas of the health service. For example, more personnel have to be recruited in order to speed up bringing down those waiting lists. Now, I appreciate that we all want to see waiting lists come down more quickly, but it's no mean feat that they are now consistently falling. So whether it's creating more and better paid jobs, filling potholes, bringing down waiting lists, or tackling the cost of living crisis, I know that our two Labour governments in Westminster, Westminster and Cardiff are relentlessly focusing on improving people's lives.

We must also remove barriers to people getting to work, and one of those people barriers is people not having the transport to get from where they live to where they work. So I welcome the massive rail investment that we are seeing from UK government into Wales, but we are also absolutely committed both as Welsh Labour and as UK wide Labour governments, to invest in our bus services so that people can actually get to the job opportunities. This is not to be anti-car.

Far from it. We recognise how vital car transport is, particularly in rural and semi-rural areas. We've frozen fuel duty for two years running and now petrol is the cheapest. It's been for five years. But it is to recognise that we need good bus services too. It is to understand that many households do not have access to a car at all, or even if they do have a car. Different members of the family need to go in different directions to work or to leisure activities.

Our bus services, particularly in semi-rural areas, have been badly eroded over the years. Firstly, we had the Tory privatisation of bus services, leading to companies privatising prioritising only the more profitable routes. Then we had Tory austerity, cutting local council budgets, leaving councils to cut back on the subsidies for less profitable services. Then we had Covid, with some services struggling to pick up since. So I very much welcome the Welsh Labour Government's initiative brought in last year, which enables 16 to 21 year olds to pay just a £1 flat rate bus fare.

So important to help them get to education, training and job opportunities. Now, if Labour is returned to government in the Senate elections in May, then we are absolutely committed to enabling all adults of working age to pay a flat rate bus fare of £2 and hand in hand with. This is our election commitment to provide over 100 new bus routes across Wales. Welsh Government has already passed the legislation to bring the bus services under public control, and we in southwest Wales will be one of the first areas where this will happen.

And if Labour's return to government at the Senate elections, we will have that opportunity for the public to be involved in shaping our bus services. I've already talked to First Bus Company and officers in Carmarthenshire County Council about this future model. I do not want to pre-empt what services the public will want, but for example, I know that many residents in Tycroes would like to see a bus service from Ammanford to Tinelli. That could be one of the new routes, but likewise it could be about timetabling, about evening services or about frequency.

And what about Sunday services? Our Sunday bus services seem to reflect a bygone era, when everything was closed and people just walked to chapel. But now we have shops open, sporting events on hospitality, venues open and it's a popular day to get together with family and friends. People need buses to get to work in these places and to go and enjoy them. So what is important is that Labour is committed to increasing these services and to giving local residents opportunities to shape the services of the future.

So I'd like to thank my hon. Friend, Secretary of State for Wales, for securing a good Budget settlement for Wales and allowing Welsh Government to prepare these sorts of plans. And if we do see Labour in government after May, I very much look forward to these additional bus services. And I'd just like to finish on a note about the Pride of Place programme. I very much welcome the Pride in Place funding that's been allocated to some £20 million over ten years.

It will help us to regenerate town centre and the area around it and to create job opportunities. This is a real chance for people to shape the town's future, because it's people who know what's best for Nelly. We will be wanting to hear from everyone who lives or works internationally, or would like to have more reason to come into the town centre and the surrounding area. Local businesses, residents, education establishments, third sector organisations, public sector. Private sector, young people, older people.

We really want to make the most of this opportunity. Once again, I would like to thank my colleagues in government for giving us the investment that we so badly have needed in Wales. Yeah, Curtis.
13:36
Alex Barros-Curtis Portrait Mr Alex Barros-Curtis MP (Cardiff West, Labour)
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Thank you very much. Madam Deputy Speaker, again, I want to thank the hon. Members for caring thank the hon. Members for caring in Preseli North Dorset. My hon. Friend for Newport West, for and and for securing this really and for securing this really important debate and for their vocal championing of Wales in particular. My hon. Friend for her stewardship of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. And, if I may, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also want to take the opportunity to pass on my best wishes to colleagues from North Wales who, through no fault of their own, could not be here today, including the hon.

Member for Amazon and my very good friends, the hon. Members for East and Bangor. Aberconwy. On this day last year, I was proud to speak in my first Saint David's Day debate, and a lot has taken place in that time. Record investment in Wales, both internationally and domestically. Record investment in rail for a modern Wales, a pay rise for 150,000 Welsh workers. Pride in place, funding for which I shall return shortly. Lifting in this Parliament 450,000 children out of poverty, including 69,000 children in Wales and 3180 in my constituency of Cardiff West, and a new team at the Wales Office.

And I welcome my hon. Friend from Cardiff North and Bangor, Aberconwy pay tribute to my friend for for the great work that she did in that role. Since this debate last year, Madam Deputy Speaker, I was proud to introduce my registration of births, Deaths and Marriages Welsh Language Provision Bill in a nutshell, my bill in a nutshell. My bill is about giving people living in Wales and Welsh people living in England the right to have theirs, or a family member's birth or death certificate issued in Welsh, English or bilingually after registration if no preference is given, such birth or death certificates should be issued bilingually by default.

As for marriage certificates issued in Wales, these two should be issued bilingually by default. All of that was a policy aim under the previous Labour government, and it is a policy that still has cross-party support. However, rather than this being the default position in 2026, Welsh people are left to fight for these very rights. This cannot be right in a modern Wales, a Wales proud of its language and a population proud of its country. I am grateful for the conversations I've had with the UK government about my Bill, and I can assure my constituents that those conversations continue, and in so doing, I want to take the opportunity to thank my constituent, Avril Davies, who brought this attention to a matter, to this attention, to my awareness, and for her channeling the grief of her tragedy and the loss of her husband into trying to bring about change for the better on this very important topic.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we know that Wales regularly punches above its weight

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in music, arts and culture, in sport in invaluable contribution. I will give way. Thank you. I thank my hon.

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Thank you. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and our Welsh culture and community are a huge part of our heritage. However, currently decisions being made by the WRU and specifically the the WRU and specifically the chairman who doesn't understand either our Welsh communities or our culture are putting our heritage at culture are putting our heritage at risk. Will my hon. Friend agree with me that these decisions are putting wallets before Wales and threatening to rip the heart out of

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our Welsh Rugby Union? I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. And of course, whilst I will always say Cardiff Rugby is I will always say Cardiff Rugby is of course a brilliant rugby team in the country, I take very seriously the campaign. She and other colleagues have fought on this issue and I too care about the future of our sport, especially future of our sport, especially when it comes to rugby, and so I commend her for her ongoing work in commend her for her ongoing work in this area.

As I said, Madam Deputy Speaker, we know Wales regularly punches above its weight in music, arts and culture, in sport and invaluable contributions to our society by birthing the NHS and in the collective defence of all four of our home nations. Last week, as part of the Armed Forces Parliamentary scheme, I was privileged to be able to spend some time with our troops in Norway in the Arctic Circle. The Strategic Defence Review highlighted the necessity of our strategic and operational focus in the High North, and thousands of our troops are rising to that challenge every day, and I pay tribute to each and every one of them.

I spoke with many officers whilst I was there for the week, including troops from Cardiff, Welsh men and women serving together as part of our collective defence officers from all four home Nations not separated by their nationality, but rather united by our common values. Wales evidences those common values every day. We are a modern nation which is diverse and outward looking. Of course, I would say. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is no better example of this in Wales than my own constituency of Cardiff West, with its variety of cultures, communities and languages, where you can walk the streets and hear Welsh, English and Bengali within a couple of metres of each other.

Indeed, I was pleased to speak about these issues very recently with the leaders of City Church, Cardiff in my constituency to discuss this point and how we all have a responsibility to work to emphasize our common humanity over division. This modern Wales should be celebrated whilst we are far from perfect and there are great improvements yet to be made. We have come a long way from the days as described by our First Minister, where rocks would be thrown at school buses on their way to Welsh language schools.

But some would like to take us back there, whether that's through dismissing our language and culture as trivial, or by trying to divide our communities with hatred and pitting us against each other. We must never submit to such division and separation. It was the Labour Party and Welsh Labour Ministers, members of Parliament at the time, who drove the debate for devolution. It was the Labour Party that established the office of Secretary of State for Wales, and it was the Labour Party that, at long last, as the Party of Devolution brought the then National Assembly into being, the Labour Party's commitment to devolution is rooted in its belief in Wales and in the Welsh people, rooted in our confidence as a nation to shape our own path.

When we choose to reject the idea of being treated as an afterthought, as some would prefer, or to isolate ourselves completely through the route of separation as others would have it. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I said I would return to pride in place when I first began campaigning for pride in place funding to be invested in Ely and Cairo in my constituency. I did so because I knew these communities wanted greater investment. So I am immensely proud that this UK Labour government has committed up to £20 million of pride and place funding to Ely and Cairo.

This is a moment of real significance for our area, and a clear signal that the government is serious about backing communities that have too often been let down by politicians of all stripes. There are those who talk down Ely and Cairo, judging without any real attempt to get to know those communities. Well, they are wrong. Ely and Cairo are full of good people doing remarkable things for their community, often with limited resources and against significant odds. Time and again, I see residents stepping up, volunteering their time, supporting their neighbours or running sports clubs.

And for me, it is a privilege to learn from them every day and to represent them in this place. Without a doubt, without a doubt, part of the reason for correcting underinvestment, historic underinvestment through this programme lies in the wider funding context context Wales faced over the past decade. Previous UK governments reduced funding to Wales, which had a significant knock on effect on Welsh Government and council budgets, and communities such as Ely and Cairo inevitably felt the impact of those decisions.

The current UK Labour government has recognised this. It's delivered the largest real terms funding settlement for Wales in its history of devolution, and that's why this Pride in Place funding is so important to restore opportunity, rebuild local infrastructure and ensure communities receive the investment they deserve. That's why pride in place funding matters. I firmly believe, Madam Deputy Speaker, that when people feel good about where they live, they feel better about themselves. If we are also serious about improving health outcomes, supporting people into work and raising aspirations, investing in the quality of local neighbourhoods is essential.

This £20 million investment will help provide the spaces, confidence and opportunities people need to thrive. And of course, one of the best things about the Pride and Place programme is that it's not politicians or councils of governments who decide where it will be spent, it's the people themselves. So my constituents have my assurance that I will work at speed to work with them, to collaborate with them so they can inform us about where and how this money should be spent. I want to conclude, my Deputy Speaker, by reflecting on the fact that our nation has come so far in 27 years of devolution.

In my eyes, devolution has always been and will always be a process. This week, a new moment in that history was marked as Senate members returned to the newly renovated chamber. The chamber as our country prepares for its next chapter of devolution following May's elections in May, Wales has the opportunity to reject division and separation and to support the power in partnership between our two UK and Welsh Labour governments, and I trust that they will do this. Madam Deputy Speaker, to you and to everyone celebrating our nation's holiday in Cardiff West and beyond, I wish you all a deep grille.

Very happy.

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Steve Witherden. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my hon. Friend, the I congratulate my hon. Friend, the Member for Newport West and Islwyn for securing today's debate and thank her for all her work as chair thank her for all her work as chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee. In last year's debate, I spoke about the pride I feel in representing the pride I feel in representing Lindau, the area I have lived in my whole life. Whilst it is a great
13:46
Steve Witherden Portrait Steve Witherden MP (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr, Labour)
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whole life. Whilst it is a great honour to do so from these benches, I am always at my happiest and my work. When the train pulls up in Chirk or Oban, in a factory in Glendower or on a farm in Montgomeryshire, meeting with people in the towns and villages and hearing about their concerns and their aspirations and how best I can help them. Although I could speak for hours on the historical significance of that great pre-marxist socialist Robert Owen and Newtown, or the unique place in world history that Bersham holds, I wanted today focus on what has been achieved by our Labour governments since last Saint David's Day on April 1st, 2025, our first Budget came into force for Wales pay rises, benefiting 160,000 workers in Wales.

Significant lifts for 21 year olds and over on the National Living Wage, and a double digit percentage pay rise for 18 to 20 year olds on the national minimum wage, a record breaking devolutionary settlement for Wales. I was especially pleased with the £25 million allocated for coal spoil tip safety. Especially important for the side of Scotland with its closeness to our big spoil tip. Non-doms made to pay tax. Huge tax increases on private jet owners. Windfall tax for greedy energy companies.

And what about the forthcoming Budget announced in November the implementation of a mansion tax? A 67% increase to taxes on online gambling companies and above all, the jewel in the crown the lifting of the two child cap. This will lift more children out of poverty in the life of this Parliament than in any other parliament. Since records began in 1961. And do not be deceived by the naysayers. The majority of the families in Wales who will benefit from the lifting of the two child cap are in work.

This measure alone will improve the lives of 2270 children affected by the limit in Montgomeryshire and Glendower, and 69,000 children in Wales as a whole. In Wales we have greater poverty and deprivation and in England, and measures to tackle wealth inequality will always have my full throated support. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is what I came here to do. I would now like to turn my attention to Welsh Rail. The £14 billion commitment our UK Labour government to Welsh Rail will be transformative.

I was overjoyed at the news that Deeside Industrial Park will get its own railway station, which many of my constituents commute to 135 constituents in Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr work in Airbus alone. The changes will lead to increased frequency by separating freight from passengers. More trains to Liverpool and the northwest of England, and much less time taken to get there. And designs are also being drawn up for disabled access at Ruabon station as well. People in my constituency already have to travel far further than most to access work and opportunities, and this will make a massive difference.

So my constituency, the birthplace of British Ironmaking, where the cylinders of James Watt's steam engine were built, will now once again by rail, be connected to where the growth is, where the jobs and opportunities are. Yes, we should celebrate the rich histories of our Welsh constituencies, but we should also be celebrating what only 19 months in with just one implemented Budget we have been able to achieve for our constituents.
13:50
Catherine Fookes Portrait Catherine Fookes MP (Monmouthshire, Labour)
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Our Catherine Fookes. >> Madam Deputy Speaker. Gwynedd became were the famous words of Saint David, meaning do the little things, and I do hope I haven't things, and I do hope I haven't mangled the pronunciation too much doing Welsh. So I'm getting there. So it's the message that many of my colleagues today have talked about to take those compassionate, daily actions, even if they don't feel like much in the moment, and our community in Monmouthshire put this into action hugely in our response to the dreadful flooding which affected us in Storm Cloud in November last year.

And everyone did their bit big or little, and I thought I could not be any prouder to represent my constituency of Monmouthshire. But I've been proven, proven wrong. Seeing our community pull together, Madam Deputy Speaker, was yet another brilliant reminder of the privilege it is to represent them. They are resilient, generous and determined. The flooding in Monmouthshire was devastating. Hundreds of homes and businesses were flooded and they are still dealing with the after effects. The anxiety every single time it rains, which as we know sadly, has been pretty much all day, every day recently.

The anxiety, particularly from our older community, about when if ever, they will get back into their homes or or residential spaces, the the anxiety when people have replaced every single thing in the ground floor of their flat or house to once again, maybe lose it again in a future flood. So let me take you back to the early hours of the morning that November day, in what was described by constituents as a tidal wave coming down Drybridge Street and Monmouth High Street, leaving shops and houses badly damaged, a stinking mess and a fine brown silt everywhere.

Osbaston over mono, Little Mill and Rockfield Road were affected, as were parts of Abergavenny too, and for some this was not novel. Sadly, the community in Skenfrith and Forge Road in Monmouth flooded yet again, like they have every single year for the past few years. It was awful. But from that awfulness rose an astonishing response. It was not only the council and charities and emergency services that intervened immediately and did those little things. It was volunteers, ordinary members of the local community who heard the calls for assistance and answered them.

Pets were rescued by Sarah from Paws Pet Shop, and an elderly resident was also rescued by boat by Sarah from Chippenham Court. I want to say a massive yang to our emergency services and everybody who helped and continues to help, but that recovery is incredibly long and arduous. The media have most definitely moved on, but the people who live and work in Monmouthshire, particularly in Monmouth, are still struggling, particularly with their mental health. And businesses have seen insurance costs jump in one case, from around £1,000 a year to now, £20,000 a year.

So I'm exceptionally relieved that additional funding was made available for the first stages of recovery, in part through the mayor's fund raiser, which she set up and which people donated to not just from the local area, but all around the world. And I'm grateful, of course, for the emergency funding for Monmouthshire County Council and Welsh Government. And thank goodness for the £1.5 million Pride in Place funding from this UK government, which, alongside Welsh Government's Town Transformation Grant, will help regenerate some of those areas affected by the floods.

And I was also delighted and very thankful that our Secretary of State came to visit and see for herself the community support in action and the high street and what was going on there. So in yet another show of resilience, businesses have been fighting to reopen as quickly as possible. And I am proud to say that Monmouth is very much open for business. Salt and pepper, one of our lovely coffee shops, was quick to get back on its feet thanks to the owner, Catherine and her fantastic team, as was bar one, two, five, and these became a visible sign of resilience in the town centre.

Beautiful nail bar is back. My lovely nails. Have them done there. Parts of Monmouth, which was established over 50 years ago, showed real determination by continuing to trade from the first floor of their premises the weekend after the floods, while flood repairs were still underway. Downstairs, Alex Gooch's artisan bakery is now selling from a converted horse box outside on the pavement, while the damage in the shop is assessed. But there are also many places still on the journey to reopening. The Robin Hood in Monmouth's oldest pub remains closed despite the challenges of repairing the listed building.

They're working hard to reopen, and handyman House and the Bridges Community Centre are also working on their recovery after their premises were badly damaged. So now we need to apply that lesson. Once again. So to any of my constituents who can, to those living just outside Monmouth bounds, those from further afield and all the fellow members in our house, please come and visit Monmouth, come to our high street, come and have a coffee, come and have some lunch.

Come and buy some gifts in our wonderful independent shops that need our support. I know you will be given. I know you will be given a brilliant welcome and finally, Happy Saint David's Day to all in the house. Thank you.
13:55
Tonia Antoniazzi Portrait Tonia Antoniazzi MP (Gower, Labour)
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Tonia Antoniazzi. >> Tonia Antoniazzi. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to draw the house to my lovely little badge, which everybody's been calling a gingerbread man, but it's actually a handmade felt Welsh lady to celebrate Saint David's Day, made by somebody from Penyrheol Primary School in my constituency. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm going to talk about something quite niche today and I probably won't take up too much time, but I want to draw the House's attention to a serious and entirely preventable animal welfare issue affecting our coastlines, particularly in Goa.

And this is the harm caused to seals by discarding flying, discarded flying rings. These lightweight toys, once lost to the wind or tide, frequently end up at sea, where they become deadly, and rescue centres are increasingly treating seals with flying rings embedded in their necks. Injuries that cause severe tissue damage, infection, and, in most cases, death. Now these seals, the grey seals, are very rare species, and they actually found off the coastline of Goa. And Gareth Richards, my constituent, is the founder of Goa Seal Group, and he's also vice chair of the UK Seal Alliance.

And I think there's quite a lot we could do because these flying rings are imported into the UK in their thousands and sold in many retail outlets for as little as £1, often left discarded on our beaches or near waterways, where they end up in the ocean. To a curious little seal. Madam Deputy Speaker. These floating flying rings are toys or playthings are seen as attractive to them as any child would be to a new toy. But soon that natural curiosity of maybe a few seconds will turn into a lifetime of pain.

And over time, when it's in their neck, it will grow into the skin. And it's really awful. And I've seen some terrible, terrible pictures of this. It's difficult to rescue or disentangle seals that are trapped in such rings. And for those fortunate enough, ones that are rescued, they require many, many months of rehabilitation. Rehabilitation at a specialist wildlife rehab centre, such as those provided by the RSPCA at one of their centres located across England. And as an aside, we don't have a specialist RSPCA centre in Wales and they have to utilise one of those four, with the nearest to Goa being in Taunton, Somerset.

But a single seal caught in a flying ring will cost the RSPCA up to £15,000 during its time in rehabilitation, before it's fit and healthy enough to be let out into the wild again. Now for charity. Relying on public donations. That is a massive expenditure. Putting it into context though, Madam Deputy Speaker, one flying ring costs to retailer a wholesale unit price of £0.33. So working that out, it's costing charitable wildlife centres 45,450 times more than the actual cost of one of those rings, just to rehabilitate one seal.

But there is a solution, and I'm very proud of Swansea Council. They unanimously voted on a notion of motion to voluntary ban the sale and use of flying rings in Swansea via one of our councillors, Councillor Andrew Stevens, who supported the application, as have Neath Port Talbot Council and the Vale of Glamorgan Council. So it does show that there is grave concern around the sale of flying rings. What I would like the Secretary of State and her Minister to help me with, and members across this House, is to get all the 22 unitary authorities in Wales to ban them, and that would make Wales the first country in the world to ban flying rings.

There are other unitary authorities across the UK, such as Cornwall, and several on the Norfolk coast and other councils are pending, but I think this is something we can do. There's been a huge amount of media coverage coverage on this from mainstream BBC, ITV, BBC Wales, ITV Wales, Radio Wales and many other you know programmes such as Countryfile and ITV Wales as Coast and Country. So there is significant public interest in this campaign. There is also a petition which is Save Our Seals from Flying Rings campaign, and there are many major retailers who are really leading the way.

Tesco, John Lewis, Pets at Home, Halfords and Sainsbury's and a number of smaller retailers. And the retailers in Gower, particularly on the course, have been absolutely fantastic in supporting the campaign. The vets are doing it also Kingston Caravan Park and Pitt and Cross Farm in particular. You can also read the children's book Sammy and the Flying Ring, written by Sandy Brown and illustrated by EJ Henderson. So when you're going to the beach, you're planning a trip to the beach, whether you live there or not.

Buy a traditional frisbee from the 1930s. Well, maybe not one of the oldest from the 1930s, but that's when they were created and they are fantastic. Don't buy a flying ring. So it's a big ask for the Secretary of State to get the local authorities on board for us to be the best in the world. Grey seals are the sentinels of the sea, a globally rare species found off the coast, making it a unique destination not only for being the first Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, but for being just a great place.

One fact I didn't know, but did you know seals swim 60 to 80 miles in just one day, so there are no boundaries on these flying rings. They should be banned. And when I've picked up some of the shops, the major retailers, I'd also like to call out Asda and Home Bargains, two of my favorite places to go and shop. But they haven't banned the flying rings. So I'd like to call on the Secretary of State to urge them to be more like Saint David and do the little things and save the seals.
14:02
Andrew Ranger Portrait Andrew Ranger MP (Wrexham, Labour)
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Amen. >> Yeah. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, it's a real pleasure to speak in my second Saint David's Day debate in this Saint David's Day debate in this chamber. And I'd like to begin by thanking my hon. Friend, the Member for Newport West and his loin, and the chair of the Select Committee, and also the hon. Member for Preseli for securing this debate today. The story of Saint David began around 1500 years ago, where, in the wake of the Roman Empire's departure from Britain, a unique Welsh identity began to take shape.

One identity around community, around language, around culture, and a resilience that lives on today. There will be. There is no better place to see this identity in action than in Wrexham this weekend. At 1240 on Sunday, the bells will ring out from Saint Giles Church, marking an end to the traditional Saint David's Day church service and the beginning of our now regular Saint David's Day Parade. The parade will be led by the Cambria Band. It brings an array of colour and music to our streets with community groups, schools and other organisations all playing their part.

And then all weekend we have special events on with Saint David's Day markets in Queen square and the surrounding area, and where our fantastic local businesses and independent traders offer delightful products, food and drink, including what I am sure are the best Welsh cakes across the whole of Wales. It's a it's a close run thing, a close run thing, but there's also a range of interactive and engaging cultural and educational activities for everyone to enjoy and take part in.

Wrexham is bidding to become the City of Culture in 2029 and our annual Saint David's Day celebrations, which are now embedded in our city and growing every year, demonstrates so much of what makes Wrexham a welcoming place for everyone. Last summer, Wrexham was the very proud host of the National Eisteddfod, reportedly attracting around 160,000 visitors over its week long celebration of Welsh arts and heritage, drawing people from across Wales and the UK to enjoy all Wrexham has to offer, as well as the plethora of fantastic events on the mice.

This year is also Wrexham's year of wonder, marking 150 years since the significant number of events happened in our then town back in 1876. So this included the establishment of the Football Association of Wales. There was an art exhibition which shone a spotlight on Wrexham to the rest of the country, and the third National Eisteddfod to be held in Wrexham also happened in that year. And of course, you would not expect

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me to speak about Wrexham without mentioning a certain local football team that you may have heard of. Yeah, let. Me think.

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Me think. You know, another, another reason to celebrate. They have reached the fifth round of the FA reached the fifth round of the FA Cup for the first time in 29 years this year, and we will be welcoming Chelsea in the next round in a week Chelsea in the next round in a week or so's time. And of course, you know, we have past history of causing upsets against top tier causing upsets against top tier teams from London. Yeah, I won't mention which team, but you know as well.

And also we are sitting in the play off spots of the championship. It's a real football fairy tale story if ever there was one you know back to back to back promotions and all that success, it's made a real, real difference to Wrexham and how we think about the place where we live, how we welcome people there from all over the world. You know, you can't walk around without bumping into Americans, Australians, South people from South America, from Europe. It's absolutely fantastic. And it's changed in those last 4 or 5 years as well.

But beyond the pitch, the Wrexham Association Football Club Foundation is impacting young lives through its programs such as the Street Dragons and the Young Leaders Programme, and to continue this sporting theme, I also welcome recent confirmation from the Welsh Minister for North Wales, Ken Skates, that North Wales will be joining discussions alongside the northern mayors in England about a possible joint Olympics bid for 2040, in which Wrexham's very own stock car race would be a possible venue, along with many other venues across the whole of North Wales, north west England and right across the other side.

And, you know, let's go for that bid. You know, we can do it in the north of England with the North Wales working together in partnership and present, you know, build on that success we saw in 2012 in London and do it even better again up there as well. Looking back to 500 A.D. one of Saint David's most notable marks, as many members have mentioned in their contributions today, is to do the little things today in 2026. That phrase still holds dear in Wales, a nation of community where people look after not just themselves but their neighbours too, and where people may try to divide, they will fail.

That is at the core of our Welsh Labour politics. We believe in partnership working, which you have seen at its best. Only last week with the announcement, as other hon. Friends and members have said of the seven new railway stations across Wales, including the one at Deeside Industrial Park, which makes such a difference in Wrexham to people getting to and from work to and from other areas as well. Alongside the improvements to Wrexham Liverpool line, electrification of the North Wales Main Line and vicious plans for North Wales Metro, this 14 billion investment from the UK government will be truly transformative for communities, our economy and for the future of Welsh Rail.

Alongside this, we have seen many other further investments in Wrexham and across North Wales and these are actually transforming jobs, education, opportunity and just North Wales as a whole. You know, we talk about the AI zones, the small modular modular nuclear reactors and the investment zone, the investment zone and the pride in place where we've seen £21.5 million in total invested in Wrexham. And as people have said, the local people will decide how that is spent and how that is spent.

For the best of Wrexham. A big key to our identity, our Welsh identity in Wrexham in north east Wales is also our very proud links between north east Wales and north west England. You know that is about work, it's about family, it's about social life and culture, a two way relationship that we are stronger for, not poorer here and at the heart of how the Welsh Government has delivered since the introduction of devolution, things like those small things, or maybe big things, free prescriptions, keeping and not cutting, student maintenance grants, the bus fare caps that have been spoken about today, and the first Wellbeing of Future Generations act in the UK.

Never forget that decision. However big or small, it is important to what it does for the people of Wales. So, as we once again gather to celebrate our National Day, I will remember to do all those little things. And of course, we wish everyone a very happy, a happy

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Speaker. Yeah. And I call the.

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Liberal Democrat spokesperson, David Chadwick. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Wales is ready to move on, ready to move on from 27 years of failure, a century of Welsh Labour dominance. Labour's failures in Wales represent the greatest failure in represent the greatest failure in democratic governance anywhere in the world. Wales lies at the bottom of every British league table, the lowest education schools, the lowest wages, the longest waiting
14:10
David Chadwick Portrait David Chadwick MP (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, Liberal Democrat)
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times. What explains this complete failure of democratic governance? failure of democratic governance? Welsh politics has been too chummy. People moving freely between People moving freely between journalism, public affairs and the political parties. Wales has lacked political parties. Wales has lacked proper scrutiny. Wales needs fresh thinking and that's why Wales needs thinking and that's why Wales needs Welsh Liberals. Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to be clear that over 100 years Welsh Liberals fought for Home Rule, can revive a Welsh Parliament.

Devolution is a sacred flame that we will follow, but the party opposite have done irreparable damage to it. Recent polling shows that only 36% of people in Wales think that devolution is worth it. Why is that? Why has Welsh devolution failed to improve outcomes? First, Wales should have powers equal to Scotland. We are an equal nation and should be treated as thus. This galling gap exists most obviously in the funding and powers made available for rail and those of the Crown Estate, and until the Westminster Government acknowledges that Wales gets a raw deal, then this constitutional question will rumble on, fanning the flames of populism and nationalism.

I'll give way.

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For giving way. In his response to the record breaking £14 billion commitment by our Labour government commitment by our Labour government into Welsh Rail, the hon. Member stated there was no mention of electrification of the North or electrification of the North or South Wales Main Line in this plan. I assume he's now a chance to read the full Transport for Wales Vision document, which does in fact include this. So would you like to take the opportunity now to row back on on his previous comments

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back on on his previous comments and instead welcome the benefits his constituents will incur from it? I thank him for his contribution and indeed I'm coming to that. Second, we need a government with plans to empower people across Wales. Devolution was intended to bring power closer to people, but instead the Welsh Government has hoarded power in Cardiff. We need a government in Wales that trusts councillors and council officers to make their own decisions without demanding it. Has Welsh Government sign off on minor changes to bus routes, a government that doesn't try and hide behind a £2 million a year future Generations Commissioner, a government where the health boards are truly accountable to the people they serve.

In short, to put things right, Wales needs more than just a change of government. We need a change in the style of government. Most importantly, people need the truth from us. Politics depends on it. What happens to the spirit of democracy when people are not told the truth that erodes trust, leading to populism? Last week, the government did indeed seek headlines to say it was spending £14 billion on Welsh rail projects. Well, they know and we know that it isn't. What did that announcement achieve other than to create further distrust in politicians? This will be their legacy.

A Wales so tired of broken promises that people have stopped tuning in or turning up. But they aren't the only ones who have made broken promises. The Brexiteers told Wales that leaving the European Union would save our steel industry, save Welsh farming and boost our international links. Ten years on, our steel industry is on the brink of collapse. Welsh farmers are being undercut by lamb imports from Australia and New Zealand, and Welsh universities are cutting jobs. The Brexiteers cost us our last decade and that's why reform cannot be trusted with the next.

And if this government wishes to see off the threat from reform and restore some faith in democracy, it must do two things. First, fix our healthcare system. And second, grow the economy, starting with healthcare. At the start of this Parliament, we were told that two Labour governments would work together. The government said it would use spare capacity in England to drive down waiting lists in Wales. That proposal was welcome. Cross border healthcare has long been an everyday reality for my constituents.

My predecessors, Richard lives in Roger Williams, fought to ensure that Powis patients could go to Hereford Hospital for treatment. But last summer, faced with a mounting deficit now approaching £50 million, Powis Teaching Health Board asked English hospitals to slow down treatment times for Powis patients. Waiting times for some procedures has now doubled. On Saturday, I spoke to Dorothy Griffiths, who's been waiting since June 2024 for a knee replacement. And she's not alone. Patients who could have had hip or knee operations months ago have been left in pain, because no one will take responsibility for ending this cruel policy.

Nobody waiting for a knee replacement gets better with time. The financial, physical and emotional costs will only mount. I've pressed Welsh Office and Welsh Government Ministers for a plan to end the pain, but it's clear that there isn't one. Denying healthcare to people who need it is a moral outrage. Growing our economy is how to pay for the NHS that we need. Agriculture, heavy industry and tourism are key sectors in the Welsh economy. The Welsh economy is run by small, family owned businesses and I wish to emphasize this point the best long term approach to tackling poverty in Wales is to build an economy with good jobs.

Businesses are allies, not foes, in the war on poverty. Yet rather than seeing those sectors as an asset, this Labour government has all but declared war on them first, despite the low earnings of Welsh farmers being well known to anyone who knows anything about farming, they came with a tax raid on the family farms. Second, they came with a tax, jobs tax and rateable value changes for the pubs, restaurant and hospitality venues, prompting closures and lost jobs across Wales. And third, there is the great betrayal.

Madam Deputy Speaker of our steel industry. Before the general election, Welsh Labour MPs lined up in front of signs saying they would save our steel. They had a manifesto commitment to spend £2.5 billion on rebuilding our steel industry. Then they let the blast furnaces be turned off and they said there was nothing that they could do. Yet months later, when the blast furnaces in Scunthorpe were under the same threat, Labour intervened and nationalised it. It was one rule for England and another for Wales.

We were told during that debate that a steel strategy was forthcoming. In September last year I asked the government where it was. The government's answer said that it would be published by the end of the year. It still hasn't been published. Why not? How much money has been spent on shoring up the steel industry? In the meantime? Will the government commit to spending that 2.5 billion in Wales? If they don't, then our economy in South Wales is in danger of withering away, and the anger that will follow will wash them away.

They must fight their colleagues for that funding. There is huge demand for the skills that exist in South Wales, particularly around Neath Port Talbot. Welders are in demand. Welders can command six figure salaries. We need an abundance of welders to build the big infrastructure projects we need, on time and on Budget, and therein lies the opportunity to tackle poverty and build the industries of the future. Let's get Welsh children welding. So I support the government when it says that it will build supply chains and green jobs, but it must hurry up because Wales is missing out the tidal Bay lagoon in Swansea that the Conservatives cancelled would have created thousands of jobs, created tons of green energy and given us an industrial lead.

Yeah, the Liberal Democrats agree with the government that green industrial leadership is ours for the taking. Take offshore wind. Wales has the coastline, the ports and the industrial skills to lead the renewable transition. But parts of the supply chains have now been built elsewhere, which means Welsh companies will have to import steel to build the necessary parts. We should not be importing steel into Port Talbot. That defies all logic, and the government have given themselves a deadline of 2035 to get floating offshore wind ready.

What are they waiting for? This sluggish attempt at industrial development is costing us jobs.

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There have been two very, very successful auctions for offshore floating wind and that we have now got the electric arc furnace already started with the building going on of it in port, plus the going on of it in port, plus the development of the ports in Milford and Port Albert, plus the Defence and Port Albert, plus the Defence College and the associated factories that are going to go with that industry, plus the amazing, amazing, amazing semiconductor industry, which I don't pretend to understand.

And yes, of course we want borders, but we also want people highly skilled in these many, many new technologies which we are already bringing to Wales. He just does not seem to be living in the

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same country as the rest of us. Well, it will be news to the people in Port Talbot that the people in Port Talbot that the electric arc furnace is ready, because that's what, not what they're seeing on the ground. It's not ready. It's not. It was. They not ready. It's not. It was. They were told that it would be ready in 2027. And now we're hearing that it's not going to happen until it's not going to happen until possibly 2028. This failure in industrial development is costing us jobs and damaging Welsh us jobs and damaging Welsh communities.

And I'm glad that she mentions the Crown Estate, because the Crown Estate should have been forced to prioritise building domestic supply chains, as has happened in the Netherlands. In Germany and its offshore leasing rounds. And that's why the Crown Estate, the devolution of the Crown Estate matters. It must be held accountable for its actions in Wales, for its utter failures to build Welsh supply chains using Welsh businesses. And I would like to distance myself from my predecessor, who said when she was in this place that moving away from steelmaking would not have a direct impact on national security.

Well, I disagree, and I think that shows that the Conservatives don't understand Wales and never have done. Finally, the Welsh Liberal Democrats believe the green transition must be a Welsh jobs strategy. That means anchoring supply chains here, investing in steel capacity, heavy plate manufacturing and port infrastructure so that Welsh communities benefit directly from the energy revolution happening off our shores.
14:21
Mims Davies Portrait Mims Davies MP (East Grinstead and Uckfield, Conservative)
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Shadow Secretary of State Ms. Davies here. Davies here. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Doc and Val de Gaulle, very happy. Doc and Val de Gaulle, very happy. A happy Saint David's Day for Sunday. And it is a delight to be in the chamber again. We're another year on for another discussion about Wonderful Wales, and all of the members have showed a deep affection for this truly special place. And it's in that spirit that I am absolutely delighted to contribute to this vital debate and pay a heartfelt tribute on behalf of His Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

Can I thank the chair of the Select Committee, the hon. Lady for Newport West, and for opening debate so strongly for her work and the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. Great work that they are doing. She is absolutely right. In some of her conclusion when she said there are the future for Wales and the big choices come up on in May this year and every single vote matters. I have told this House on many occasions and I'm pleased to affirm it once again today.

My love and passion for Wales endures and is a long lasting in every way. It shaped my life. It gave me life chances and determination to succeed. Some of my happiest memories are in my near ten years of living and working around Swansea, and it was lovely to hear from the hon. Member for Wrexham, talking about the sporting aspirations, perhaps coming forward, the impact of US football and of course, my time in Swansea was long before Snoop Dogg and I here.

It was a heck of an atmosphere just this week, but in fact I had family there. They had a great time. So since last year actually on the sporting front, and it was raised by the hon. Lady for Neath and Swansea City, the clouds on the horizon when it comes to rugby in Wales, not necessarily what we would have expected one year on in this debate. And the hon. Lady for Monmouthshire rightly raised her constituencies. Impact of Storm Claudia.

Those flooded. My heart goes out to those still living with the effects, and I was pleased to to meet many of her constituents and those affected quite recently. And it is something they are living with and terribly worried about, and I'm sure they will have been pleased to not have been forgotten today in this debate. And Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Leader of the Opposition asked me to look after Wales for her, I was pleased, ecstatic because my opportunity to champion Wales continues and much of my experience, and I was reflecting on the debate this afternoon, was pre devolution and the opportunity from this Dispatch Box working with my colleagues.

I hope to have many more of in the future. It was was abolishing the tolls for the Prince of Wales bridge, working as a Minister in the Wales Office with my friend Alan Cairns. And that is one of our legacies. Despite this feeling of 14 years, nothing happened. Well, guess what happened on the bridge. We made life easier for everybody. Cross border. So some positivity there. Look, we have heard today and it was mentioned just recently about the challenges of the NHS in Wales.

Everybody knows somebody waiting in pain and in vain in Wales. Families around this chamber, I'm sure, perhaps also included the waiting list. Yes, improving, but still outrageously high. Nearly 1 in 4 people remain stuck on a waiting list. And we do hear these cross-border stories, and we recognise the challenges when the NHS in England is involved, that people are often told to hold back because the additional treatment cannot be followed up. That is absolutely wrong. And the ongoing scandal around Betsi Cadwaladr still limping from one scandal to another.

It's absolutely right that these scandals are tackled. Something needs to happen between Westminster and Cardiff Bay. It is heartbreaking that hundreds and thousands of mothers, fathers, grandparents and children are loved ones feel that they are voiceless and are living with ongoing pain and it's unacceptable. Despite two fabled Labour governments at the end of the M4, the responsibility around public services is still not taken account of. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is absolutely vital that 20 years, 27 years on, that we absolutely look at what has happened with the devolved power from Cardiff Bay.

And of course, we have heard that it is Welsh Labour ably assisted by plied and the Liberal Democrat in the Senate, who have seen the challenges in health, education, transport, schools, economic development, you name it, Welsh Labour is responsible for it. Although some of the speeches this afternoon, you would not have recognised that the tremendous work and there was some I mentioned some of it this afternoon of the last conservative government record sums and investment saving Welsh steel in Port Talbot and plotting its future.

And I have seen, as the hon. Lady from Keighley rightly said, the electric arcs going in. That needs to happen on time and, as promised to the community, we also saved 100,000 jobs with our furlough scheme, launched two freeports and investment zones and in fact, many of those policies were built on by members this afternoon. The problems holding back Wales have not been caused by our excellent people of Wales. The excellent doctors, nurses, teachers, our family members who are superb and passionate members of the teaching community.

But it has been, I think, frankly, the arrogance coming sometime from Cardiff Bay now, the sanctity of our schools and the opportunities for young people have not escaped Labour's clutches. I will come to the hon. Gentleman shortly and I note the Shadow Secretary of State for education is here. So how perfect. Because Wales schools continue to sit at the bottom of the Pisa schools in mathematics, science and reading in the whole United Kingdom. And that has been the case since a decade ago.

It's absolutely wrong that we are not doing something about that. And Labour has now turned its attention to private schools. The ideological decision to hammer private schools with 20% of that fee is literally destroying jobs and livelihoods in Wales and putting more pressure on state schools. And I've been warned by anxious headteachers in the independent sector that nobody is listening to their pleas in the Wales Office in Cardiff Bay, because soon, if these schools collapse, they are key employers, often in rural areas, and are vital to people's payback packets and communities.

I'll give way.

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Thank the shadow Minister for giving way. She talks about public services in Wales. Would you care to reflect, along with the Liberal Democrats, on 14 years of austerity, as the architects of austerity and

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the damage that they did to public services in Wales, which we are rebuilding? Yeah.

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Yeah. Well, we left office with the best readers in the Western world apart from in, in Wales. And I apart from in, in Wales. And I think this trope of 14 years is deeply unhelpful. 18 months on, you're in government, you're in control now. You wanted the leavers get on with it. But in the meantime, I would say that my constituency in East Grinstead, although obviously not in Wales, is the home for the Caravan and Motorhome Home Club and we talked about tourism and the importance of the economic situation today.

And in fact, they have 1 million members and 15 of their campsites and motorhome sites are in Wales supporting the three beautiful national parks and the five areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty. And of course, as we heard from some members today, the concerns around the economy. Let me turn to some of the speeches this afternoon. May I turn to the hon. Lady from Gower, who talked about the Grey Seals and the flying rings. I had no idea what they are. They are posh frisbees that, frankly, Asda, who's been called out twice in the chamber this afternoon, needs to to get a grip on and I congratulate her on her important campaign.

The hon. Member for Strangford not in his place now, but he highlighted the power of our union that all our nations make up the great United Kingdom. The danger we see is we could be sleepwalking in May into separatism, and I hope that has been drawn out strongly enough in this afternoon's debate. And so therefore, it turns me to the hon. Member for cardigan, Preseli, talking about Welsh wonders, which I think we can all agree with, speaking about the power of small business and indeed tourism, but telling the real trail tale of struggling in trading insecurity of higher energy, high business rates, the challenges to his high streets, to.

I'm very much looking forward to pictures of him parading for Saint David's Day and making it so joyous. And did he mention a cow eating competition? I think I've been in many of them myself. The hon. Member from Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare rightly called out the cost of fuel and asked for the CMA to get involved, and Asda was called out. The tin bath and tourism. I'm not sure that's a happy marriage, but certainly the zip world sounds great.

The hon. Lady from Kvarven spoke about the importance of new electricity and the reality of green energy on the people of Wales, that people are being overlooked when it comes to vast projects, and that absolutely they need to be heard. And I agree with her. With two banking hubs coming to my perch in Uckfield, yes, I'm showing off, but it keep pushing because they're well worth it and they mean so much. She also talked about talent. Talent is everywhere, and she rightly highlighted that the hon.

Lady for Newport East talked about Newport unions. And may I please pass on my condolences of the passing of Martin Butler, a fantastic advocate for Terrence Higgins, did so much around HIV testing and Prep and very sorry to hear of his passing. Look, transport. When it comes to to Wales, there's been a lot of bandying around figures and I have the same views. The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire. And let's see the reality of this, because I think it's extremely important.

I think there's one thing just before I conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I would like to highlight the Labour UK government's decision to allow their colleagues in the Welsh Government to include glass in its deposit return scheme is going to have serious ramifications when it comes to the whole of the United Kingdom and to our internal market, with all other areas of the UK not including glass in their doctors. This means that they could soon be a significant new trade barrier for Wales.

It could cause a significantly less competitive market. As a result. It will jeopardise the integrity, as I say, of our internal market, this decision from 2027 will not do so. We need to keep Wales in the United Kingdom. We need to, as mentioned today, in reality, stop attempts to divide us, which means voting Welsh Conservative in May back our family farms and farms stop wasteful and unnecessary spending. Plenty of money has gone to Wales. It's how it's spent. Wales needs more.

Doctors, dentists, nurses and teachers. Put the NHS first. Have a health emergency. Focus on those long waits. Scrap the tree for 20 mile per hour. Limit limits and look at a proper road building programme. I hope today my speech has not sounded defeatist or pessimistic. It's because I, and the whole Conservative and Unionist Party knows. After 27 years of Labour, Wales deserves better here.
14:34
Jo Stevens Portrait Rt Hon Jo Stevens MP, The Secretary of State for Wales (Cardiff East, Labour)
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Secretary of State. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to thank the backbench Business Committee, also the hon. Members for Newport Western and Ceredigion Preseli for proposing today's motion. And to everyone who's taken part in this debate now in preparation for closing the debate today, I reflected on last year's Welsh affairs debate. Still then, less than a year into the new Labour government, I updated the House on some of my priorities for Wales, but also those across government. I spoke of our plans to end Tory austerity with investment in Welsh public services and infrastructure, to seize the golden opportunity of Wales's new green industrial revolution in floating offshore wind and new nuclear.

To rectify historic underinvestment in Welsh Rail. To deliver an industrial strategy with key Welsh sectors at its core, and to do whatever it takes to protect Welsh steelworkers and build a strong future for Welsh steel. It's fair to say it's been a very busy year. The UK and Welsh Labour governments have worked together to deliver huge change on every one of those priorities, and more. Take, for example, this government's announcements in the last week alone. Last Tuesday, we announced a new £11 million fund to help businesses affected by the steel transition at Port Talbot to create new jobs and attract investment.

£122 million has now been allocated by the transition board. I promised the government would do whatever it could take, whatever it would take to protect Welsh steelworkers and we will always keep that promise. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister, the Transport secretary and I were at Transport for Wales headquarters with the First Minister and Welsh Transport Minister, Ken Skates, announcing a generational commitment by the UK government to deliver our long term plan for Welsh Rail as quickly as possible, and building on the nearly £445 million announced last year after years of underinvestment by previous conservative governments, this is a plan to deliver the rail network Wales deserves, with up to £14 billion of projects in every corner of our country.

Seven new stations, including the first new station in North Wales. For many decades extra capacity, more and faster trains transforming the experience of passengers. And this commitment will unlock 12,000 jobs in rail and our industrial parks. Better connecting the people with the tens of thousands of well-paid jobs we are creating across Wales. And then on Thursday, I was at Cardiff Castle with the Defence Secretary to sign the new £50 million Defence Growth deal for Wales with Welsh Government.

We will back our Welsh defence sector, drive innovation and create even more high skilled jobs using our increased defence spending as an engine for economic growth. Now I'm going to carry on because I haven't got much time left. So just before Christmas, we announced one of the biggest public investments in Welsh history, the siting of the UK's first fleet of small modular nuclear reactors at Wilbur, creating 3000 direct jobs and thousands more in the supply chain. And after a decade of inaction from the party opposite and the inability of Plaid Cymru to agree amongst themselves, whether they support nuclear or not, I am beyond proud that it's this Labour government that made this game changing commitment to honest man and the whole of North Wales.

We've secured the most successful auction round in European history, backing the Owl and more offshore wind farm in North Wales and the first floating offshore wind project in the Celtic Sea, Erebus, to support thousands of jobs in our renewable energy industries. And Madam Deputy Speaker, on tackling the cost of living, which lots of hon. Members have talked about today. Our relentless focus has seen wages rise faster in the first ten months of this government than in ten years of conservative rule.

Interest rates cut six times, meaning significant savings in mortgage payments for Welsh households and businesses. The lifting of the two child limit, as we've heard, will benefit 69,000 children in Wales and well over a quarter of a million families in Wales. In fact, 320,000 of them will benefit from the first ever sustained real terms increase in the Universal Credit standard allowance, helping many working families. Our support for communities in every part of Wales includes over half £1 billion for the new Local Growth Fund to create jobs and put more money in people's pockets.

£143 million for the Welsh Government to ensure that coal tips remain safe. Supporting families living in the shadow of these tips and bringing economic growth and employment opportunities to some of the most deprived communities in Wales. And there's been lots of mention of pride in place, funding £280 million for 14 communities, as well as at least £1.5 million for every single one of the 22 local authorities in Wales. Through the Pride in Place Impact Fund putting decision making about communities in the hands of communities.

And this year all our Welsh police forces will receive a real terms funding increase to help them keep our streets safe. And on devolution. Madam Deputy Speaker, Labour, as we've heard, is the party of devolution. We delivered it, we've protected it and we are enhancing it. We've updated the Welsh fiscal framework, worked with Welsh Labour Government on the future of water regulation and devolution. We're devolving employment support, funding and delivering in partnership our economic trailblazers and city and growth deals.

We've restored the Welsh Government's decision making role over the Local Growth Fund, and just two weeks ago, I announced plans to devolve new powers for the Senate to create a vacant land tax to encourage house building. But hon. Members across this House will know that the ultimate proof of this very successful partnership between our two governments is seen in the nearly £6 billion additional spending power that the UK Labour Government is providing to the Welsh Labour Government through the largest funding settlement.

In real terms since devolution began, we have ended Tory and Liberal Democrat austerity, making sure that Wales is funded properly and fairly, enabling the Welsh Government to invest in our NHS, our schools and across our public services. We are now less than three months away from the Senate election, and Wales faces an important choice. Together, the UK and Welsh Labour governments are strengthening public services, building new infrastructure, creating new jobs, increasing wages and tackling the cost of living.

We can continue to build the next chapter of Wales's future, with two Labour governments focused entirely on the real and pressing priorities of the people of Wales, or that future can be put at risk with the division and destruction of reform or distraction and separation from nationalists. And we on these benches will continue to campaign in the months ahead to secure the next chapter of Wales's future with Welsh Labour. Now, we've had some fantastic contributions in this debate.

This afternoon, the chair of the Select Committee, in a wide ranging speech covering the Member for Welsh Cakes, churches, choirs, the NHS and pride in place and pride in work, the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare on his campaign for fair petrol pricing in his constituency, where, to me, higher prices that he has referred to appear completely unjustifiable and I wish him lots of luck with that campaign. It's a good campaign. The hon. Member for Newport East talked about how Newport is definitely on the Up, Wales's fastest growing city and youngest city, and I think that is in large part to the dynamic leadership of its Labour Council, its MPs and its MSPs, both hon.

Members Falkland and Montgomeryshire and Glyndwr spoke about the impact of the child poverty strategy measures that the UK government is taking, and policies on tackling the cost of living. The hon. Member for Cardiff East, my constituency neighbour, spoke very powerfully about his ten minute rule Bill and the right to have birth, marriage and death certificates bilingually, but also about the Pride in Place programme in Ely and Cairo. Hon. Member for Monmouth talked about the incredible community response to the floods in her constituency caused by Storm Claudia and it was a real privilege to meet many of her constituents.

When I visited straight after the floods, the hon. Member for Gower gave a very, as she said, niche speech on flying ring toys and the impact on grey seals on the beautiful Gower coast. That campaign sounds like a good one, and I'd be very happy to have a conversation with her after the debate today. And the hon. Member for Wrexham, who always gets in the mention about the football club but also talked about North Wales joining forces with northern England to bid for the 2020 Olympics.

I think this is an exciting prospect befitting of North Wales ambition and sporting prowess, and a great example of the potential of collaboration across the borders of our union. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to say thank you to all members who have contributed to this debate. All of us here are committed to serving our constituents, and we are dedicated to the continuing success of Wales. And on the 10th anniversary of Wales Week, London this week, which I know many people around, many members around the House will have been to their events this week and will go next week.

A fantastic platform for promoting Wales, not just across the United Kingdom but globally. May I wish you, Madam Deputy Speaker, all hon. Members and everyone across Wales a very happy Saint David's Day on Sunday.
14:44
Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones MP (Newport West and Islwyn, Labour)
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Ruth Jones to wind up. >> Deputy Speaker, and. >> It's been. >> A. >> Real honour to open and close this debate today, and I want to thank everybody who've made the thank everybody who've made the contributions. I'm not going to go through the list as the Secretary of State's just done that very admirably. Obviously, each member admirably. Obviously, each member has spoken with passion and pride about their constituency and highlighted the great aspects of the people, the places within their constituencies.

Sadly, none of you can come. None of them can compare with Newport West in this line, but well done for trying. But we've also been educated today. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think you might have missed the the references to Saint David himself. We learned about his diet, where he lived, what he did, and obviously we've had animal welfare lessons as well. The hon. Member for Gower with a flying rings, which we will all go away with now, and none of us will buy those ever again.

So it's really important that we've been here today. And I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, I don't think you were in the chair when the previous Deputy Speaker was invited to the tin Baths of Merthyr, but I'm sure you would be very welcome to go along as well. And we would all be there to cheer you on as you get into those ice cold water. It'll be lovely, I'm sure. So I do want to thank all for their contributions today, and I'm just so proud that our country can be spoken about so well and so warmly in this chamber.

So I thank everybody, and it only remains for me to wish you, Madam Deputy Speaker, a very happy Saint

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David's Day. Very happy. The question is, and as on the

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The question is, and as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say I of the contrary. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes

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I think the ayes have it. The ayes Davies. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, could you please advise me how I could seek clarity, given we have the Secretary of State for Wales the Secretary of State for Wales here in the chamber? I've been seeking to get clarity on which
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14:47
Christine Jardine Portrait Christine Jardine MP (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)
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supported my application for this debate, not just on my behalf for the opportunity to discuss it, but for the many thousands of children and young people in this country who feel that their voices are not who feel that their voices are not heard, they are not being listened to, that we are not hearing what to, that we are not hearing what the help is that they need in what for some will be the darkest times for some will be the darkest times they will ever experience.

I am also grateful to this government because actually, since they came to power, they have shown some appreciation of the problem more than their predecessor. And that is reflected in the fact that their strategy for young people does mention the need for support. But there is so much more that needs to be done, because this is an issue that affects this country on many levels. The human, personal, social and economic. I'll come to the economic issue later, but first, I want to take a moment to explain how I came to this point and why this matters so much to me, and I understand how it matters to others.

My dad was just 44 when he collapsed one Saturday morning just before Christmas and died. It was a heart attack without any warning. Our comfortable, happy, working class family was plunged into uncertainty. My sisters were eight and 13, just having turned 20 the week before. I thought I was an adult, but it was only years later that I appreciated the impact that it had on me. Indeed, all of us I had instantly become not just the second adult in the household, but in reality, the second parent in the house.

When my own daughter was eight and then again when she was 13, I struggled with watching her with her dad and realising, probably for the first time, exactly what my sisters had lost, had been through and what my mother had dealt with. And then, irony of ironies, when my daughter was the same age as I had been almost to the day her father died of a sudden, unpredicted heart attack, I saw she wasn't quite an adult and realised that neither had I been, and helping her cope, I saw yet another aspect of our family's dynamic and challenges from a new perspective.

But the moment when it came home to me that something had to be done about this on a wider scale was talking to my youngest sister, the one who'd been eight when dad died, and she said to me, dad, I remember that we hadn't had any support from any organisations, from anyone. And she pointed out that that was because before he died, we had never been on the radar of social services or needed support. So at that moment they didn't know we needed it.

There was no support mechanism to help mum and to discuss the sort of emotional challenges we would face, because nobody was really aware of who we were and what we needed. And in a lot of ways it's exactly the same today. The organisations are there, the charities are there, they want to help. But unless someone is on the radar of social services, they do not know. They don't know who wants to help them, and they have no way of knowing where they are and how to contact them.

And it's very difficult for families and distress to figure out exactly where to go and how. It's more than three years now since I first raised this issue in the House, I called for a protocol or a process to identify those young people at the point of the loved one dying. And genuinely there is support across the House from individual MPs. From the APPG. We have had debates, I've had meetings with Ministers and everyone is supportive. It's just the action that's missing.

Too often I've been told, oh, schools and GPS are there to help. And yes, and they do do a great job. But bereavement affects every aspect of a child's life, not just school. The grief matters for children. Campaigns showed that children who bereaved are at an increased risk from depression, anxiety, physical health problems. They have lower academic attainment and are overrepresented in the criminal justice system. So yes, GPS and schools are vital, but they are not there at weekends.

Christmas, school holidays or late at night when you need someone to talk to. And what if a child moves home? Or it's an estranged parent who dies and the school doesn't know? And where there is support? One of the main issues is that there is a huge variation in the provision of services across the UK. They have developed in an ad hoc way and there are inequalities in provision. Many struggle for funding large areas of the country are still without services that support children, and even in areas that do have a service, there is long waiting lists or travel times and services.

Survival precarious. The pandemic made it worse. Waiting lists for child bereavement services were increasing and there were already concerns about access, which just got into exacerbated. So we need to do more. Which brings me back to how we know the children are to help the protocol and the process. I've called for data. We don't collect data. We have no way of knowing. And it would be so simple. When someone dies, the registrar could just take a note if there was a child or children affected, and that would be a chance to signpost the family to support with relevant local information.

We could give families the opportunity to opt in to a real time referral pathway, similar to those for families bereaved by suicide. Local data on the number of children and young people bereaved could be combined with activity data from local services to identify what proportion of children and young people are getting support. Data on which children and young people have been bereaved could be linked to other data sets, such as those on the use of health services. Understanding of the impact of bereavement on children's health and the futures could be, could be so much improved just by taking a note.

When someone dies, knowing through that where children are, who needs help, what help they need would make such a difference, then we need to make sure they're getting the right help. Of course, when they were asked by the UK Commission on Bereavement what they needed, half of the bereaved young children and sorry children and young people and adults who shared their experiences said they got only a little or no support from their education setting after their bereavement. So the commission recommended that all education establishments should have a bereavement policy, including staff training and a process for supporting bereaved children and their families.

What a difference that would make in Winston's wish. The charity led the Ask Me Education campaign. It takes this a step further, asking all schools to sign up to a manifesto to pledge to see each bereaved student as an individual and ask one simple but powerful question what do you need? How do we support you? So I would ask the government, given the critical role that schools play in children's lives and the fact that we already acknowledge that they do so much work, given the fact that the answer is always to turn to those schools, what is the government doing to improve the consistency and tailoring of bereavement support in educational establishments, in support of pupils wellbeing and their learning? Can we finally make sure that after 20 years, that grief education becomes a vital part of the national curriculum and attempts to get over our national aversion of talking about grief? Because if we don't start talking about grief more openly and regularly, will never begin to tackle the problems it creates in society.

We know that children, as I've said, who suffer bereavement and don't have support in coping with the trauma, will likely have problems in later life, more likely to have difficulty forming relationships, more likely to get into trouble. More likely to live in poverty, various reports show, including one by Sue Ryder. Grief costs the UK economy an estimated £23 billion a year now. We could help to mitigate that. We could take preventative measures that protect children and also safeguard a healthy economy in the process, a situation that has not been helped by the change in bereavement payment to families and the fact that they have been frozen for the past nine years.

So I would ask the government, will they address that particular shortcoming? Will they fix it? When I started to get involved in work in this area a few years ago, one of the charities I spoke to, which works with adults bereaved with children, warned me. They said you might be opening a can of worms for yourself. I didn't think so. Now I'm not so sure. Meeting young people who've faced losing someone close felt they didn't have the support they needed, or the understanding has been both inspirational and seeing how they've coped and heartbreaking knowing that they've lost an important emotional and economic anchor in their lives.

Sometimes the only emotional anchor and no moment drove that home to me more than when a meeting in Parliament with Winston's Wish and some young people. One girl thanked me for everything I was doing and said, but you see, you understand, don't you? And I do, and I'm not the only one. But I also know that my sisters and I were very lucky. We may not have had the official support that we needed and all young people deserve, but we did have support.

Too many children will today face the trauma that we and hundreds of others have without support. An estimated 127 children every day in this country that every 20 minutes. Well, we've been standing here. Someone has lost a parent. Above all else. Those children ask us to need them, to ask them what they need, and then to make sure that the authorities, ourselves included, make sure it's provided. Make sure that no child in this country feels alone, unsupported or lost without the friend, sibling or parent that they've lost.

I would ask the government to make sure that they get that help. Thank you.

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The question is, as on the Order Paper, I call Maureen Burke.

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Paper, I call Maureen Burke. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I thank the hon. Member of Edinburgh West for securing this debate. We all know that there is debate. We all know that there is no good time to be bereaved, no convenient moment to lose a loved one, and no guarantee that you are
14:59
Maureen Burke Portrait Maureen Burke MP (Glasgow North East, Labour)
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one, and no guarantee that you are equipped to cope with loss at any time of life. But to lose a loved one as a child must surely be one of the most isolating experiences imaginable. Your friends have not encountered anything like it, and the adults in your life might not feel confident in knowing how to help you. From my work chairing the APPG for Grief Support, I know that as a society, we remain woefully underequipped to handle grief between adults, let alone navigating lost and childhood bereavement that is left unaddressed can lead to serious problems at any time in life.

For children, these are only magnified. It is well documented that grief that is left unresolved can lead to a pathway towards unemployment, crime, imprisonment and homelessness. If this occurs in childhood, the effects can be lifelong and snowball into problems that can start to feel impossible to overcome. Charities across the sector point to the lack of data as the starting point for our failure to properly support grief and childhood. We simply do not know how many children encounter a bereavement.

This means we do not know where to target support or what the scale of the problem is. When support can be given, it is incumbent on all of us to encourage open, honest and frank discussions about loss. The work of charities such as Cruz and Winston's Wish is incredible, but we should not have to rely on a postcode lottery of local organisations or the variable levels of staff training across our schools and colleges. Teachers need to know where to access dedicated support as soon as it, and they need training to help children when they need it the most.

There are, of course, many examples of good practice across our schools in supporting bereaved children. I want to draw attention to some of the incredible work that has been taking place at Oakwood Primary School in my constituency. When the staff and students at Oakwood were faced with the tragic consequences of a car accident in the autumn of last year, which led to the death of a classmate, they addressed the bereavement head on, led by their incredible headteacher, Vanessa Thompson.

A garden of remembrance was created and students were encouraged to speak out about their feelings with their teachers and each other. Encouraging conversation in this way and providing a dedicated space to grieve and talk about loss goes a long way to moving away from a culture of silence around death, encouraging conversations about loss must be at the heart of any policy intervention in this area, and work in the school should act as a great example to others. I hope that continuing to draw attention to the importance of supporting bereaved children through debates such as this and the work of the APPG on grief support, that we can continue to improve the support available to staff, students and parents.

This should start with collecting the basic data that will enable us to get a better picture of what is needed and where. Thank you.
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Kevin Bonavia Portrait Kevin Bonavia MP (Stevenage, Labour)
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Kevin Bonavia. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. >> And I would also like to add my own personal thanks to the Member for Edinburgh West, not just for for Edinburgh West, not just for securing today's debate, but also for being such a powerful champion on this course. I came to it personally myself through leading a petitions debate which the member, the hon. Member, took part in, and I really appreciated that at the time. And I took on that debate because I was a member of the Petitions Committee, and it actually opened up my own experience.

And I to do a debate. As members may know, if you're preparing for it, you meet the petitioners and the petitioners for this debate. This was in December 2024. Were Mark Lemmon, who's leading a petition to collect data, as has been touched on by the hon. Member, and also by John Adams, who is leading petition to make bereavement part of the national curriculum. And so I spoke to both of them, and both of them had their own stories, just like we heard from the hon.

Member. And of course, the Member for Glasgow North East has touched on some of the experiences she's heard about. And it reminded me that actually, this can touch us in many other ways. So in my case, my dad got throat cancer when I was in my teens. He passed away when I was 20 years old. I was mostly away at the university at the time, but I had a younger brother who was 15 when he passed, and I didn't really appreciate the time, just how hard it was on him.

My mum was obviously overcome with it all herself and and he didn't have the life that I subsequently was lucky enough to have. He had it hard. He was out of school, had some tough years and he's no longer with us now. So looking back on it, it would really, I think have made a real difference if that support that some people do have and some of it has improved over the years if that had been there and there has been progress, and around the country there are many fantastic organisations we've heard about.

Obviously Winston's wish that is around the country and they took part and supported that petition debate that I led and in my own area, in my constituency, in fact, there is a charity called Stand By Me, which has been fantastic, and I met them at a summer fair and in Knebworth, and I met a mum and a young girl, Evie, her young daughter Evie, and they showed me what, what could be done. Evie had support from that charity but also became a young ambassador.

And it's kids getting support from other kids who've been through it. And that's great. But we've already heard that support is so patchy around our country. I'm really glad that there has been progress. There's two petitions I mentioned. The first one about having bereavement on the national curriculum. The government's listened to that, and the minister's predecessor was at the petitions debate and took that on board. And and that has now happened. And we've now got that in, in.

Strategy that it's got but it's got to be implemented. And so I would ask the Minister, you know, how is that going? How are we monitoring our schools taking up? Are we giving the schools the support they need. But on that second petition about collecting data, absolutely. How can you know what the problem you face is if you don't know the extent of that problem? How many children are out there that for whatever reason, they or their families, it's not reported through the system? How can we make it easier for that to happen? And surely it cannot be on the wit of man or woman to change that approach.

We can do it, whether as a will, we can do it. And so, while the hon. Member for Bruce has made that point, that there has been progress, I ask this government to go even further because there are kids out there who need that support, and we must do all that we can in this place and elsewhere to give it. Thank you.
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Caroline Voaden Portrait Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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Liberal Democrat spokesperson Caroline Burton. >> Thank you. >> Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd like to thank the hon. Member for Edinburgh West for her very Edinburgh West for her very powerful speech introducing this debate and all her work on this debate and all her work on this subject. Now, it's normal in debates in this chamber to bring the stories of our constituents to illustrate the issue. But I'm going to share my own story as well. Today. In 2002, I had a five month old baby and a two year old toddler, and my beloved husband was diagnosed with terminal esophageal cancer.

A year later, he died just a week before his fourth birthday, and Laura was 17 months old. Now you can't explain to a baby or to a four year old what death means. One day their parent is there, the next he's gone. I remember Laura, who had just learned to say the word Dada going round the house, opening the doors, going Dada, dada because she couldn't find him. I didn't really know anything about the impact of bereavement on children, but in the last 20 years I've learned quite a lot.

In the UK, around 120 children are bereaved of

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a parent every day. Sorry. Making a very powerful speech

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Making a very powerful speech and I think we're all very honoured to hear it. Caroline.

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Caroline. I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. So in the UK, around 120 children are bereaved of a 120 children are bereaved of a parent every day. By age 16. Approximately 1 in 20 young people in the UK will have experienced the in the UK will have experienced the death of a parent. I became the chair of the Widowed and Young organisation and I met loads of kids and their parents through that work, many of whom I'm still friends with today, and I saw the impact on scores of children who had lost their mom or their dad.

And there are thousands more in the UK who have lost a sibling, which is also a profound grief for children. That is little understood. I saw these children grow up and adjust to their loss, the progress they made and then the setbacks, the challenges with attachment and loss, fear and abandonment, the issues with friendships and relationships, struggles with school, dangerous coping mechanisms and risk taking in the teenage years, mental health challenges, anger, intense emotions, anxiety. And just for the sake of my daughters, that is not all.

That's not all related to them. Well, while children are navigating all of that, the challenge of becoming a single parent at exactly the same moment that you are bereaved cannot be understated. And this is compounded exponentially when the bereavement is sudden and unexpected. The day my husband died, my children came home from nursery and needed me to be the same reliable, loving, stable mum they knew up at seven the next day needing their breakfast. And so it went on. There's not much time to navigate your own grief in all of that, but on top of that is also the loss of income, the challenge of holding down a job, bringing in a wage while being a single parent, a grieving single parent, grieving children is immense, and the unaffordable costs of childcare that enable you to go to work at all.

But in a way, I was lucky because I was bereaved before 2017 and I received the Widowed Parents Allowance, a payment that was funded by the National Insurance contributions that my husband Nick, had made during 20 years of full time work, contributions designed to pay into a system that is meant to pay out when needed. He will never receive a state pension. What difference did it make? It made all the difference. It allowed me to work part time. It allowed me to be present for my children, to help keep them stable, while the world around them felt unsafe and scary.

It made a part time income go further. It helped pay for childcare and it helped me pay for a few out-of-school activities so my children could live the same life as their peers and pay for the holiday clubs, which they had no choice but to go to so that I could go to work. And they didn't always want to. Do. I will give way. I thank the hon. Member for giving way in 2024. My constituent Claire way in 2024. My constituent Claire lost her husband.

Personal tragedy. Overnight. She became sole parent to her three year old son. Sorry. This is. Personal as well. I was going to talk about me and I'm not going to talk about me, but. She rightly points out that the fixed 18 month limit on bereavement support payments creates a financial cliff edge for widowed parents, and to which you've referred. Sorry, the hon. Member has referred already, but her point was that with the hon. Member and maybe the Minister to agree that grief and the permanent loss of income and the parenting responsibilities for all children, particularly for very young children, do not end at that arbitrary 18 month period that cut off point and that this really should be rethought.

Thank you. I

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thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and I couldn't agree more. So in 2020. In 2017.

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In 2017. All that changed. The previous conservative government replaced widowed parents allowance with widowed parents allowance with Bereavement Support Payment, an 18 month flat rate payment paid regardless of the child's age, a regardless of the child's age, a decision that drew cross-party criticism. Opposed at the time by US, by the SNP, by Labour MPs, a decision that severed the historic link between National Insurance contributions and long term family protection, a decision that created measurable disadvantage for widowed parents and bereaved children.

Bereavement Support Payment has not been updated since it was introduced, and it remains at 2011 figures. And the very minimum we are asking for today is for the government to uprate in line with inflation. And I would ask the Minister to respond to this call, but I want to see the government go further and consider calls from campaigning organisations, like way to reinstate a bereavement payment that lasts until children leave school, to iron out the disadvantage that children are under from the moment they lose a parent.

Grief does not last 18 months, bereavement lasts a lifetime and for children it comes back again and again in huge, destabilising waves. Every time they reach a different stage of growth and understanding of what death really means. And believe me, you do have to keep going through it again and again as they get older, explaining exactly what death means. And no, he's not coming back and what they did to his body and all of that stuff and it and it goes on right the way to adulthood.

And parents navigate this through a child's life. And if you add the extra strain of financial worries onto a widowed parent, you are making a you are making a difficult job far harder. And putting that bereaved child into an even more dangerous place. Lucy, from West Sussex, is 31, and a teacher. Her husband died aged 36 from sudden adult death syndrome in January 2023. Out of the blue, with no warning. Her children were nine, six and three when their dad died, she said.

Losing one income overnight has a huge knock on effect. Combined with rising living costs, there are times I genuinely struggle to afford food. I always made sure my children ate, but that often meant skipping meals myself or relying on the cheapest food just to get through the week. I've had to use food banks. Even now, those payments would still make a meaningful difference to us as a family, not as a luxury, but as support that recognises what has been lost and what continues long after the funeral.

And we know that poverty is directly linked to poorer life chances, reduced attainment in school, more vulnerability to harms and there is a societal impact to this too. Taking it to its very extreme, there is an association between bereavement and negative outcomes, so it's perhaps unsurprising that bereavement is prevalent among people in custody. The centre for Crime and Justice Studies reported that 41% of young offenders have experienced the death of a parent as a child, a rate which is significantly higher than the general population, and other research shows.

Up to 90% of young men aged 16 to 20, and specific institutions had suffered at least one bereavement, with many experienced experiencing multiple traumatic losses. And as the hon. Member for Glasgow North East said we do not do grief well in this country. It is still often something to be brushed under the carpet. It makes people, and I know this from my own personal experience. It makes people embarrassed and awkward. It is something to be avoided, not talked about.

So we desperately need grief education, as my hon. Friend had said, because it could be transformational. On top of the financial calls we're making on the government today, we support the Winston's Wish Ask Me campaign, a campaign to make nursery schools, colleges and universities places where grieving students feel seen, understood and supported. Right now, at least one child or young person in every classroom across the UK is grieving the death of a parent or sibling, and 72% of students who were bereaved while in education said they had never been asked what support they need.

And as my hon. Friend said, the question they need asking is what do you need and how can we support you? And I remember vividly having to go through the story of my children's bereavement again and again with different teachers every time they moved up the school or moved to a new school, making sure that they were aware that the children had lost their dad when they were very young. And I often felt that they just didn't understand the impact or how the loss could manifest itself at different ages.

As they grew, Emmeline told me that her brother died aged ten after a long illness. She said I was 11 and my sister was 13. We said goodbye to him in the hospital, but it didn't feel real and when he died, we had so many unanswered questions that we didn't feel able to ask for fear of upsetting or already grief stricken parents. Although family members, teachers and our friends were kind to us, we weren't offered any kind of counselling or professional support. I doubt it existed back then, but in hindsight, this was something we really needed.

I struggled with the grief for years and as an adult, I sought counselling to unravel those feelings, to learn how to cope with them when they resurfaced and understand the impact that losing my brother had had on me. And the hon. Member opposite referred to this in his own very powerful speech. I'm sure had this help been available when I was younger, I would have been able to express my grief more openly and come to terms with it much earlier. I can completely see how losing a close family member could negatively change the course of a child's life, and in some cases, impact society itself.

If you work with children as a teacher, care worker, youth leader or wellbeing professional, understanding developmental grief is essential. Grief is not rare. It is a common childhood experience that shapes how children see themselves and the world. And I know we're asking a lot of schools at the moment with big changes on the horizon once again. But for me, this is a small but absolutely fundamental ask that nurseries and schools take the time to understand how grief affects children and how they can be supported, and schools must have the tools to signpost families to support organisations.

And I absolutely agree with the calls today for data to be collected on how many children have suffered a bereavement like this, and it could be done through registrar offices, because until we understand the problem, we can't begin to fix it. So I say to the Minister, again, talk to the Department for education. The Minister is from the Department of Education. I wasn't sure who would be responding to this debate. Can we discuss how to implement better understanding of developmental grief across the education lifeline lifetime? Can we find a way to collect data through registrar services? Talk to your colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions about uprating bereavement support.

Pension payments now in line with inflation, and begin the conversation about reinstating a bereavement payment that lasts until children leave school, to give them the best chance to overcome the impact of the death of a parent. Bereavement is a long, complicated and difficult journey and after 23 years you can see it is still very, very real. Adding financial hardship to that journey is unjust, it is discriminatory and it's time it ended.
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Laura Trott Portrait Rt Hon Laura Trott MP (Sevenoaks, Conservative)
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Shadow Secretary of State Laura Croft. And can I say how much of a privilege it's been to be part of this debate today and how much I admire all of those who've spoken about their personal stories? I do not underestimate for a second how difficult that is, but taking a catastrophic event and trying to make other people's lives better is about the most admirable thing that I think that you can do. I congratulate the hon. Lady for securing this debate today, and to the Backbench Business Committee for putting it in place.

She is so self-evidently right in what she says that there needs to be a general strategy and that we should have data available. I think it's worth thinking why that might not have happened to date, and to make some suggestions about how we can overcome those barriers in the future. The government is historically bad at Cross-departmental data collection. We know this. It's something that has been grappled with over time. There has not been a clear solution to it to date.

There have been some occasions where it has worked better. Where I've seen that be effective is where there is a cross-departmental working committee on something specific, and I offer that up as a suggestion to the education Minister for something that might work. In this case, for example, there have been some changes in recent years where there is no wrong door policy for reporting a death. That took a lot of time because what was happened previously is when you were reporting a death, as I'm sure unfortunately, many people in this room have experience of that.

You had to go to multiple government departments before it was the case that the death could be recognised. That has been changed. That has been a better change, and I do hope that something similar could be adopted in this particular case. The Member for Glasgow North East and I should also honour the work of our APPG, which I know does some incredible work in this area, mentioned about good practice in schools. And I also think this is something that we can think about how more systematically to actually collate.

We are quite effective when it comes to education policy. Now with something called the Education Endowment Foundation, it picks up what works from an academic perspective and it shares good practice amongst schools. This is something that is actually missing, by and large in the same space, but is also missing here. It's you know, we've heard today about some really good practice. The hon. Lady mentioned Oakwood Primary School, but I'm sure that is the case up and down the country. But there actually isn't a place where that can be shared effectively.

And I wonder whether that's something that the department could pick up and think about how to take forward. I'm sure that there will be guidance, and I'm equally sure that it can be made better in terms of what we do in terms of the overall data collection. Obviously, this is something that, when you report a death is linked to one individual rather than to a wider database, that change is going to need to be made. But of course, the referral onto the pathway is the critical point that the hon.

Lady made that needs to change. And she also mentions that that now happens in the cases of suicide. I think it was. And I think this is something that the I hope to see the Minister take up today because again, we've seen that that can work previously. So it feels like something that may take time. And I think we all acknowledge that government is difficult. It is difficult to wrangle different places together. But I think that that is something that could definitely be taken forward.

I was quite shocked today before I was preparing for this debate. I didn't actually realise the figures for bereaved, the outcomes for bereaved children and I think if you are not, don't haven't gone through this catastrophic event, it is too easy to overlook the impact that it has on young people. And I thought the statistic that the Member for South Devon gave around the number of offenders who have suffered a bereavement was very shocking, and I hope and believe that this will give even more grist to the mill of the Education Minister to try and deal with this, because this is one of the very many things that we see across government where early intervention helping people is not only the right thing to do, but it's also something that will benefit us and wider society.

And I think today what we have really seen is that, of course, many children who go through this have amazing families. We've had some examples of these amazing families here today who have people around them who will support them, who will help them, who will do whatever they can to ameliorate this catastrophic incident. But that's not true of every family. And of course, the state will miss things. But if we can set up a situation where we can minimise the impact of this catastrophic event on young people, of course it is the right thing to do.

I should say I'm very grateful to be part of this House today, because I think that it's these types of debates that take place in a relatively empty chamber on a Thursday afternoon that can really make a difference to young people across the country. You've got a very good Minister there, and I'm sure he's about to tell us how he's going to sort this all out after many years, but I do. I commend the many voices who've spoken up today, and I'm grateful to have been here for it.
15:26
Josh MacAlister Portrait Josh MacAlister MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Whitehaven and Workington, Labour)
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Minister. >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's a pleasure to speak in this debate and respond on behalf of the government to a debate that's so government to a debate that's so constructive and heartfelt in in nature. I want to thank everybody for contributing to this debate today and particularly to the Member for Edinburgh West, for securing the debate and for her opening speech, in which she reflects not only her own personal experience, but her long standing efforts championing these issues on behalf of so many children and families outside of this place.

And I think this house is better for it. And her contribution. I'd like to turn just to a few of the remarks from speakers that we've had in the debate so far. The my hon. Friend, the Member for Glasgow North East and the work that she highlighted that's being done, the brilliant work that is being done by Vanessa Thompson and her team at Oakwood School. I believe it's Oakwood School in in her constituency, which is a reflection on the importance of what happens in classrooms and the essential role that teachers have to play.

And I'll turn to say a bit more about that in the speech later. The. My hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage, the experience that he has had of meeting Mark and John as petitioners, and the power of people sharing their experiences, which I think is probably the thing I will take away from this debate today more than anything, and sharing the very painful experience of his experience and his experience of losing his younger brother. And I am sure his younger brother will be very proud of him.

And hearing the speech that he gave today. And finally, the hon. Member, my hon. Friend for South Devon and her personal experience and those of her children, and in particular, the long tail of effect on families from losing a loved one and needing to navigate that alone, and the isolation that must come from that. And I think the point that is made on bereavement support is, is valid. It's a point well made. It's not something within my gift as a Minister at the Department for education, but I'd be very happy to facilitate a meeting with the Minister who is responsible for for those issues.

I think, as we've heard today, bereavement cuts across all of our lives and is something that we all will experience. It's universal responsibility for bereavement crosses boundaries between government departments, and I'm pleased to be responding to this debate on behalf of the government. As the Minister for Children and Families. Grief comes to all of us and is something we experience uniquely and at different times. Loss can be particularly hard for children. It's therefore vital that young people are helped and have someone to turn to for support when they need it.

Given my role as a Minister at the Department for education, I will start and focus most on the role that is played by schools where the government has taken important steps to support bereaved children. Firstly, on the 15th of July last year, we published revised Relationships Sex and Health Education curriculum guidance with a focus on supporting young people to develop resilience and to live healthy, full lives. During the consultation process, we heard the curriculum should do more to recognise as many of the organizations that have been referenced by members today and as a result, for the first time, the guidance now contains new content about coping strategies for dealing with issues like anxiety, and specifically covers issues like loneliness and bereavement.

As a society, we should become more open, as members have said, to discussing loss, and this is an important step to opening up that conversation with our young people in a sensitive and early way. Teachers can also draw on a wide range of external expertise and resources to help tailor their lessons, and I want to express my gratitude to organisations like the Anna Freud Centre and the National Association of Funeral Directors, who provide invaluable support to children and young people coping with loss and bereavement.

In developing this guidance, we worked closely with experts on childhood bereavement, including the Childhood Bereavement Network. I'm extremely grateful to for their help, as well as all other organisations and individuals who have contributed to to that guidance. I'd also like to thank individuals like Caroline Booth, who my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax has drawn my attention to. Schools can choose to adopt the revised statutory guidance now and in response to the hon. Member's hon.

Member for Stevenage's question, and will be required to teach the new content from September later on this year. Rollout of the new guidance has been supported by many organisations who have developed, who have helped develop it and are working on quality materials for teachers to use in our schools. Schools also have a wider role to play in supporting the resilience and mental health of children and young people. This is why we have made mental wellbeing as well as health education, compulsory for all pupils in state funded schools.

Pupils should be aware that change and loss, including bereavement, can provoke a wide range of feelings and that grief is a natural response to bereavement and that everyone grieves differently. Pupils are taught how to recognise and talk about their emotions, including having a varied vocabulary of words to use when talking about their own and others feelings, and how to judge whether what they are feeling and how they are behaving is appropriate and proportionate. Pupils are taught to discuss their feelings with an adult and seek support.

They're taught where and how to seek support, including whom in school they should speak to and if they are worried about their own or someone else's mental wellbeing or ability to control their emotions. This government is committed to improving mental health support for all children and young people. The government will provide access to specialist mental health professionals in every school by expanding mental health support teams, so every child and young person has access to early support to address problems before they escalate.

Of course, for whatever reason, young people may not always want to access support at school. As a result, it's important to look for ways to better help young people to access alternative sources of support. This includes the fantastic support that's available in the charitable sector, and there's been a number of organisations mentioned by members, and I like to congratulate the work that they do across the country, to name just two here that have not been mentioned so far. Officials in my department recently met with Scottys little soldiers who provide support for children and families of the armed services and Sibling Support, a UK wide charity providing critical help to children who suffer the heartbreaking loss of a sibling.

Last year, we added new links to key gov.uk pages for those who have suffered a bereavement previously. These included no reference to children. I'd like to thank the Childhood Bereavement Network for their support, with the department ensuring this has happened. The hon. Lady, the Shadow Education Secretary, mentioned the importance of cross-government working. We have continued to ensure that consideration of children remains a priority for cross-government Bereavement Working Group. It's chaired by the Department for Health and Social Care and the membership from a broad range of government departments.

This group meets quarterly and continues to consider options for improving services for all bereaved people, including bereaved children. This group was formed following the UK Commission on Bereavement in 2012 with their report bereavement is everyone's business. In November 2025, the UK CB steering group, including members from the Childhood Bereavement Network, attended a meeting of the cross-government Bereavement Working Group to share progress with the report's recommendations and discuss further work. Furthermore, during the National Grief Awareness Week in December, Baroness Merrin attended the annual meeting of the UK CB commissioners, chaired by the now Archbishop of Canterbury, Dame Sarah Mullally, to discuss progress, implementing the report's recommendations and hear from adults and children with direct experience.

In summary, bereavement will come to all of us and sadly, very sadly for some, this will be when they are still young and figuring out the world around them. I know that all of those who have spoken today, and the many experts and charities working in this area, share a commitment to ensuring that every child is aware of and able to access the support that they need to navigate some of the most difficult times they will ever experience. I thank everyone for contributing today, for sharing very personal and moving stories, and being prepared to do so in a chamber where I hope they feel that everyone has been willing them on to share share those experiences.

And again, I'd like to pay tribute and deep thanks to the hon. Member for Edinburgh West for her continued campaigning and passion in this area, and I look forward to working with her in the future to

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make progress in this essential field. Christine Jardine to wind up.

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Christine Jardine to wind up. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd just like to thank everyone who's taken part today and who has spoken so today and who has spoken so movingly and powerfully about their own experiences and those they've spoken to. I would like to thank spoken to. I would like to thank the Minister for laying out the steps that the government is already taking and moving towards already taking and moving towards that better understanding and better support that we've all talked about.

But I think, if I may, I think the shadow Secretary of State for education actually summed it up. It is on occasions like this when there are no party divisions, when we talk as individuals to one another about a problem which affects us all and the people we know, and we represent that we see the best in this House. And I actually think that if there are any of those children who are grieving at the moment watching, they will hopefully think that we have taken that first step in listening to what they have been telling us and moving towards what they need to support them.

So thank you. Thank you.
15:38
None Portrait Adjournment: AEA Technology pension scheme
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The question is, as on the Order Paper, as many as are of that opinion, say I of the country. No, I think the ayes have it. The ayes

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have it. I beg. To move that. This House do. Now adjourn. The question is that this House

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The question is that this House do now adjourn Olly Glover.

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do now adjourn Olly Glover. in. Moving this adjournment debate, I'd like to start by setting out I'd like to start by setting out some context and background as to how we got to the issue of the EA technology pension scheme scandal, technology pension scheme scandal, set out the moral case for redress, sum up some of the independent evidence supporting the pension campaign as cause address some previous comments made on this issue by the government and on some issue by the government and on some amendments relating to it through th But I hope that we can begin the importance of pensions as part of our financial and life planning system, and the importance of having a pension system in which everybody can trust.

And I hope the Minister will agree with me. That's particularly important given a money and Pension Service survey from 2024 that found that 29% of 18 to 25 year olds in work have never contributed to a private or a workplace pension. Today, I want to start by giving an outline of the profound injustice that has affected thousands of individuals and families across the country. The EA technology pension scandal. In 1996, the commercial division of UK, EA was privatised to become EA technology.

The government gave Parliament a number of assurances about their pensions, leading to 90% of employees transferring their pensions over these assurances, including included one from Lord Fraser in 1995, and I quote employees of other parts of the authority which may be divested need not be concerned about their future pension arrangements. It is the authority's clear policy, irrespective of employment law, that employees who move to the private sector should be able to join a pension scheme which was broadly comparable with the authority pension scheme.

Indeed, to do otherwise might mean that employees had a claim for constructive dismissal. However, the new scheme turned out to be in fact less favourable, whilst the UK scheme had a specific provision that the government would pay the benefits if the scheme did not. It turned out that the new scheme had no equivalent provision at privatisation. The government transferred less than half of the accrued pension contributions into the new pension scheme, underfunding it from inception. In 2012, EA technology entered a pre-pack administration.

The underfunded pension scheme was in deficit and was transferred into the PPF. The employees paid into the UK scheme for pensions linked to RPI, but PPF provides no inflation protection at all for the pensions they earned before privatisation. They now receive about 50% of the pensions they were promised. This is particularly galling for closed section pensioners who paid extra pension contributions, 30% more than in the open section, specifically to purchase purchase RPI indexation. At the time, the government actuary assured people in writing that they would receive the same pension benefits from the new scheme and specifically advised them not to consider the security of their pensions in making their decisions.

Alongside this, there is strong evidence that the government transferred less than half the proper sum into the new scheme at privatisation, and this is evidence that the campaigners, I'm sure, would be willing to share with the Minister. They kept about £200 million. Campaigners believed that, had the proper sum been transferred in 1996, it's unlikely that the scheme would have been underfunded and wound up in 2012. There is a strong moral case for redress, ultimately for hundreds of pensioners, both within my constituency and across my colleagues constituencies.

The retirements they save for have been blighted, and I now want to say a little about why this particular pension case is is unique and unusual and has factors in it which were to do with actions of the state, because I'm very aware that the the Minister has many such cases that come across his desk, and both myself and my colleagues, such as the hon. Member for West Dorset and and Mid Cambridgeshire, have heard from our constituents on the devastating effect this has had on their retirements.

Speaking with campaigners in my constituency just a few weeks ago, constituents told me that their plans to provide for themselves and their dependants at the end of their lives were shattered. They have lost a huge fraction of their pensions and they told me that they feel that recent Budget changes will make very little difference to them. They have now spent years pushing on this issue, only to have been failed time and time again by successive and incoming governments. On top of this, it has been estimated that around 200 of the affected pension campaigners have now since died.

Now, many independent reports have supported their cause. A National Audit Office report in 2023 clearly demonstrated that the Government Actuarial Department failed to inform close section pensioners of the loss of Treasury backing in transferring their benefits from the UK EEA to the pension scheme. I think that's not the last time I will stumble on that acronym later in 2023, public Accounts Committee investigation found that pensioners had not only been misled but lost money as a result. It also found that no government department had taken responsibility and that pensions had been passed from pillar to post, as well as having no route for appeal.

In 2023, the Work and Pensions Committee, chaired by the right hon. Member for East Ham, concluded that the government should report back on how it intended to ensure an adequate means of redress for the pension scheme. Members. The then parliamentary Under-Secretary of state for pensions, Paul Maynard, accepted the committee's recommendations and began to communicate this with the Cabinet Office, only to be abandoned with a change of government. The current government has not accepted these findings and has stated without particularly clear justification, that, and I quote, there are no plans to offer specific redress to members.

The government has often claimed that the matter has been thoroughly investigated by previous Ministers, the pension campaigners, and I feel that this is not the case. Similarly, the response I received to a letter from November requesting a meeting with the Minister to discuss this and I'm grateful for the Minister having given time to to meet with me on this discussion, stated that there are no plans to put in place a further review, and that the Chancellor announced at the Budget that this government will introduce pre 1997 indexation into the PPF and into efforts to address this matter, and that members will benefit from this measure.

But my constituents feel that these recent changes will make a very, very little difference compared to what they've lost. And they again, they have produced calculations to illustrate that which they I'm sure would be happy to share should the Minister be interested in seeing them. Perhaps more concerning, the Department for Work and Pensions and its Ministers have repeatedly insinuated that the matter has been investigated by various ombudsmen. The truth is that no ombudsman has ever investigated the information on pension options given to scheme members by the government and its agents.

In 1996, the Pensions Ombudsman refused to investigate on the basis that the Government Actuarial Department is excluded from their remit. The Financial Ombudsman cannot with DB pension schemes, so this did not fall within it. If the PPF board had made a mistake, which it had not. Now the Minister will be aware that the pensions Bill is currently being debated in the House of Lords and there the noble Baroness Ros Altmann, who I think I hope we can all agree, is widely recognized for her expertise on pension matters, recently made a strong statement supporting the case to the Lords Committee on the Pension Schemes Bill, where she proposed a particular solution whereby schemes such as Aets could leave the PPF with full compensation.

The Pensions Minister, the noble Baroness Sherlock, rejected this proposal. Also in the laws, the noble Lord Palmer of Charles Hill put forward an amendment to the pensions Bill number 218, which would require the Secretary of State to commission an independent review into the pension losses incurred by former employees of EA technology. There have been numerous insinuations made in the House of Lords, such as those made by the noble Baroness Sherlock, claiming that the 1996 Gad note highlighted the risk that the scheme might fail, that, for the pension campaigners is simply not correct.

The words risk and fail were not used in the government Actuarial Department note at the time in connection with the scheme, so, reaching a conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, there are three key problems that I'd like to put forward to the Minister today. The first is that the pensioners receive poor information from government on their pension choices at privatisation. The information they were given was not accurate or complete, and that precluded them from making an informed choice about whether to accept the privatisation of their pension alongside their employer.

Secondly, the government retained a large proportion of the funds which should have been transferred to the new pension scheme. Thirdly, the PPF is making a large profit on the assets which were transferred in from the scheme, while members are receiving 50% of the benefits that they spent many decades paying for now, my constituents who are affected by this are, alongside campaigners from across many constituencies, have five questions that I would like to now put to the Minister and I hope that he will either be able to answer.

This afternoon and in some cases, were that not to be the case, I hope he will be willing to make a commitment to write to me with his findings thereafter. The first question is why has the current pensions Minister refused to provide address for pensioners without giving reasons why, even though a thorough investigation by the Public Accounts Committee concluded in their favour, and the Pensions Minister at the time accepted that conclusion and indicated to the Work and Pensions Select Committee he was keen to resolve the situation.

Question two how is the government to be held to account for the wrongdoing that has ruined the retirement of elderly pensioners, many of whom have very sadly passed away without justice? When the previous administration accepted the objective, non-political findings of the Public Accounts Committee. Question three why do government officials, particularly in the Department for Work and Pensions, repeatedly make insinuations to the effect that the age pension situation has been thoroughly investigated by previous Ministers when the evidence does not support that assertion? Question four why is the government position on pensions the exact opposite of that taken by the right hon.

Member for East Ham when he was chair of the Work and Pensions Committee. Question five Will the Minister require or request that the Government Actuarial Department publish their calculations, not just their assumptions underlying the calculations of the sum transferred to the scheme at privatisation, on the basis that Gad presumably calculated what the cash equivalent transfer sum required by the pension scheme 1993 would have been. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope that we can all agree that pensions are vitally important for people to invest in their future during the course of their working lives, so that they can have confidence as to the their well-being and their livelihood when they reach retirement.

That's particularly important because of the figures I cited at the beginning about quite worrying lack of investment in private or workplace pensions. So this isn't just about redress for the pension campaign, although of course, that is the most important course, that is the most important thing. This is about showing that the government believes in the integrity of pension schemes, and is committed to making sure everybody has faith in those pension schemes, which are so important for them to invest in.
15:50
15:50
Torsten Bell Portrait Torsten Bell MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Swansea West, Labour)
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absolutely understand why it has such resonance in particular for his constituents. I also want to his constituents. I also want to express my sympathy for all of the pension scheme members. All of us would hate to see our employer would hate to see our employer enter administration and our pension scheme. Enter the Protection Pension Protection Fund. I meet a wide range of individuals I meet a wide range of individuals who have been through exactly that experience, and many of them will rightly bring the same kind of rightly bring the same kind of passion to the case as he has.

And I think that is particularly the case for many of those with pre 1997 accrued pensions, as was the case for many members of this scheme. And the hon. Member is right in particular to raise the point. He did that at the point of transfer. There was a particular focus on securing better indexation. So I can understand why these pensioners in particular feel like they haven't secured what they hoped. I think it is also particularly true for those with accrued public sector pensions that then transfer to the point of privatisation into private sector schemes.

We're discussing one of them today, but it is far from the only one. Carillion is obviously the highest profile case in the recent past that can obviously no longer happen, given the changes that have been put in place to mean at the point of privatisation, we would no longer see accrued pension rights transferred into private sector schemes. So this is this is a real issue. Well, that exact situation cannot occur in future. As we have heard, this matter is a long and complex history.

The company was privatised 30 years ago in 1996. Specifically to the some of the questions the hon. Member has raised about the value at transfer, the reassurance I can offer him, and I know it won't be enough for those constituents and others that have raised the case with him, is that the transfer value was obviously agreed by trustees, not just proposed by the firm or indeed the government itself at the point of transfer and the financial assumptions that underpinned it were common ones at the time.

In 2012, unfortunately, as we've heard, E8 entered administration, which resulted in its pension fund scheme entering the PPF. Now, this was, of course, while the Liberal Democrat and Conservative coalition government was in office. It's not for me to speak for that government, but they formed they've set out that the coalition government responded to the grievances raised by pension scheme members, including by the then Liberal Democrat pensions Minister, by maintaining that all legal obligations had been fulfilled and that the safety net existed through the PPF.

I understand that's not the position of the hon. Member, but that was the position of the Liberal Democrat government at the time. Now, the hon. Member has raised two big picture concerns that I want to try to do some justice to. One is the treatment, the income levels that scheme members are actually living on, which is the most immediate and important thing. And then the consideration of this case by appropriate bodies, which he's raised now on the first of these eight members, of course, received compensation from the PPF, which is a well-established compensation scheme that does provide a vital safety net.

And I don't want to underplay that, because the world before the PPF saw members exposed to much more risk in the case of insolvency. So I don't think we should, you know, we don't want to underplay the importance of that compensation route from the PPF. But there have been concerns about the lack of indexation of pensions accrued before 1997, which in this case is all of the pensions accrued prior to privatisation. And unlike previous governments, we have listened to those concerns and we are actually acting.

The government has brought forward legislation in the bill. The hon. Member mentions to introduce annual increases on compensation payments that relate to pensions built up before the 6th of April 1997, where the schemes provided for this, and I can confirm that eight members will benefit from those changes to the PPF because their scheme, as we've discussed, did provide for such indexation. That will make a real difference in the years ahead, to make sure that we don't see further erosion of the value of their pensions to inflation.

Turning to the second issue raised, and the hon. Member is aware that this matter has been considered by a range of different government and parliamentary bodies since the insolvency in 2012. That includes the Public Accounts Committee, as he mentioned in their inquiry. And all I would say is the first recommendation of that inquiry was that we addressed this issue of pre 1997 indexation within the PPF, and that's the answer to his first question, which is we have taken those inquiries seriously.

That is one of the contributing factors to why we have now acted unlike previous governments, to address the issue of p97 indexation in the PPF. This issue has also been debated twice previously in Parliament, although it is a decade since it was last discussed, so I'm sure scheme members will be glad to see him bring it back before Parliament today. It's obviously been raised in other debates. Most recently I've been involved in discussions with it in the Pension Schemes Bill, where hon. Members on both sides of the House have raised this issue was also raised at Report stage in the floor on the floor of this House, just a matter of months ago.

Multiple Ombudsman's have considered specific complaints, but he's right to say they've considered specific complaints, not the case as a whole. And they have come to rulings in most in the majority of those cases, they have come to views they've not said. It's out of scope. There's one has has done such a thing. But in general, they have considered the specific complaints raised and brought them to a resolution. They're obviously not always in the in the way that some people would prefer. More generally, my reflection is that I can understand the temptation to call for more reviews in this case, because scheme members and I've spoken to some myself do not feel fairly treated.

And so I understand that. And it is right that hon. Members come to the House and raise the effects on their constituents in debates like today's. But the government's view is that the best thing we can do isn't to promise further reviews. It's actually to act. And the most important way in which we can act, given the circumstances, is by addressing the lack of pre 97 indexation for

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members acting. Of course. I thank the Minister for giving

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I thank the Minister for giving way. I understand what he's saying about the pre 1997 indexation, that that is not the primary issue here that is not the primary issue here and the the calculations by the campaigners as to the difference it makes on their losses is it's very, makes on their losses is it's very, very it's trivial, it's very, very small. It's probably I don't have the exact percentage but it's probably like a 5% difference, probably like a 5% difference, something along those lines.

And I'm very happy to share that with the Minister. That does not address the the key issue here, that government guidance was incorrect at the time, and that is what led people to make the decision on the basis of wrong information. So I think I suggest the Minister, the pre 1997 indexation thing is a

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different issue. Minister. I thank the Member for his intervention. I recognise the point intervention. I recognise the point he's making that the the nature of insolvency and entering into the insolvency and entering into the PPF will have made more difference than future PPF accruals, although than future PPF accruals, although I have had a previous government, for example, the Liberal Democrat government introduced pre 97 government introduced pre 97 indexation a decade back, it would have made a significantly more than 5% difference.

It would have made a very, very large difference to the pensions that eight members are living on today. So I'm responsible for what the government is doing in terms of indexation. Now. It is a lot more than 5% because even just the last years we've seen pensions, we've seen inflation running at particularly high levels. So I don't agree with this, but I do agree with what he's saying, that it's definitely not the entire story. I totally understand that for members, their feeling about the advice they received back in the 1990s is at the core of their view that they should never have been in a situation where their pensions were transferred out of the public sector in the first place.

And he's right to say that is a different issue to the indexation that occurs within the PPF. I'm merely pointing out that the reviews he's mentioning, including the Public Accounts Committee, were focused on that issue. And I my best bet is if the government wasn't acting on this issue, then it would have been one of the issues that the hon. Member was raising when he came to us today. But he's completely right to say that it is not everything. So that is what we are doing to address the lack of indexation, acting where previous governments failed to do so, and acting because we can all put ourselves in the shoes of pensioners who have not seen their pension incomes live up to what they were expecting through no fault of their own.

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me close by again congratulating the hon. Member for Didcot and Wantage for today's debate and for giving us the opportunity to speak on such an important subject. I appreciate I cannot and have not offered everything that hon. Member and indeed a scheme members would want. But this government is taking real, concrete changes to better protect the pensions of those members from inflation in the years to come. That cannot write all of their feelings about what has happened in the past.

But as I say, this government is choosing to act rather than promising another review in the months and years ahead. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

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The question is that this House is now adjourned. As many as are of is now adjourned. As many as are of that opinion, say I. The ayes have
09:00
None Portrait Oral questions: Culture, Media and Sport
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