(1 day, 9 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
David Smith (North Northumberland) (Lab)
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Dan Tomlinson)
Ministers from Government Departments have met organisations including the National Farmers’ Union, the Tenant Farmers Association, the Country Land and Business Association, the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers, the Ulster Farmers’ Union, and the NFU in Scotland and Wales. I also met farmers in the north-east of England only last month. After listening and considering the independent Centre for the Analysis of Taxation report, the Government believe that the approach we have set out is an appropriate one.
David Smith
I am proud to support a Government who believe in progressive taxation, as I am sure the Minister does—that those with the broadest shoulders should bear the greatest burden. Under the CenTax minimum share rule proposal, farm estates where at least 60% of the estate is used for farming would receive relief of up to £5 million per person. This would reduce the risk of family farms being broken up, place a greater burden on very large estates and those gaming the system, and double the forecast tax take. Will the Minister direct Treasury officials to take another look at the CenTax proposals on APR prior to the Budget?
Dan Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend for his question—he is a strong advocate in this place for his constituency and for farming communities. Just last week, he made the point to me that our farmers and farming communities are crucial to economic and social and cultural life. Along with other Labour colleagues from rural constituencies, he has been working hard to raise the points that matter to farmers, and this Government are doing all we can to support our farming industry.
On the specific point about CenTax’s proposals on minimum share, I do not need to direct officials to look at them, because I have read the proposals. It is worth noting that the number of losers from the proposed policy would be more than double the number of people affected by the changes that this Government are making. Over 1,000 estates would be affected by the proposals put forward by CenTax.
Sarah Dyke
A Liberal Democrat freedom of information request revealed that the Treasury recently had plans to review the family farm tax. Farmers across the country are fed up with bickering and infighting from a Government who just do not understand them, but there is still time to act and end months of confusion and misery. Will the Chancellor and her Ministers meet farmers from Glastonbury and Somerton, and me, to provide some clarity and reveal the full extent of the Government’s discussions on revoking this damaging family farm tax?
Dan Tomlinson
Just a few weeks ago, I met farmers to discuss this and other important issues. The Government believe that even though this tax is a difficult change—I do not shy away from that fact—it is the right change to make, because it is a method of raising revenue in a fair way that helps contribute to restoring the public finances.
Ben Maguire
I kindly ask the Chancellor to please respond to my joint letter on Cornwall’s future funding, sent last week, which asks her to meet all Cornish MPs without delay. Alternative proposals to this damaging family farm tax—such as a clawback scheme, as proposed by the NFU, or increasing the threshold to £5 million—would raise more in revenue than the Government’s current plans. In contrast to her speech this morning, the Chancellor now has the opportunity to do both the right thing and the popular thing. The mental health toll on farmers is becoming completely unsustainable, so please, Chancellor, rethink this damaging policy.
Dan Tomlinson
I would be happy to meet the hon. Member and Members from across Cornwall to discuss the issues raised in the letter to the Chancellor.
Maya Ellis (Ribble Valley) (Lab)
As the Minister has just highlighted, the main argument against the CenTax proposals for APR now seems to be a fear that more people will be subject to inheritance tax under those proposals, even though most of those extra people are essentially private homeowners with agricultural fields. Does he agree that Labour values call for supporting hard-working farmers, who are the backbone of this country, over millionaire homeowners who have money in their wider estate to pay the inheritance tax?
Dan Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and for her time last week—it was good to meet her to talk about important issues affecting farmers and rural communities. On balance, the Government believe that the policy position that was set out at last year’s Budget is the right one, and we will be continuing with it.
James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)
This morning the Chancellor failed to take responsibility for her poor choices in a Budget that whacked up taxes, borrowing and spending, and made it clear that she would once again break her promises on tax. The farmers whom I have met have been in tears about the family farm tax, not because they are worried about losing their jobs but because the Chancellor is putting generations of farming at risk. Can the Minister tell the House whether the Chancellor has actually met any farmers, the NFU or other farming organisations to understand the impact of her policy and why she should scrap the family farm tax?
Dan Tomlinson
The Government have assessed the impact of this policy. According to the estimates that we issued at the time of last year’s Budget, about 500 farms would pay additional tax as a result of the changes; those numbers were contested by all Opposition Members, but the CenTax report—which the hon. Member has said that he and others are interested in reading—backs them up and confirms the Government’s estimates.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
On Friday I sat with farmers and their families in Brecon and Radnor, and they are desperate. If they are 65 or over, they have no time to plan for the family farm tax, they cannot get insurance, and they will be put in an impossible position if the Government go ahead with the tax unamended. The CenTax report sets out options that could extend extra protection for family farms while rightly raising funds from people who are currently exploiting the tax loopholes in APR. Those farmers asked me to put a question to the Chancellor. They asked, “Can the Chancellor please say precisely which parts of the CenTax report the Government disagree with, and why?”
Dan Tomlinson
I have already answered the question about the CenTax proposals, but it is clear from its analysis that the number of estates that would pay more inheritance tax would be more than double the number contained in the proposals that the Government have put on the table. I understand that changes in inheritance tax are always difficult, but last year the Government had to make the decision to raise more revenue to ensure that we could fund our public services adequately, and this change raises half a billion pounds in a fair way.
Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Lucy Rigby)
The Government understand the importance of in-person banking to communities, and we are working closely with industry to roll out 350 banking hubs across the United Kingdom. More than 240 hubs have been announced so far, and more than 180 are already open. I know that that includes two in the hon. Member’s constituency, and I look forward to our upcoming meeting to discuss her constituents’ banking needs.
Caroline Voaden
When Labour was in opposition, its shadow Economic Secretary, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Highgate (Tulip Siddiq), welcomed measures to protect access to cash, but was concerned about the fact that they did
“nothing to protect essential face-to-face banking services.”—[Official Report, 26 June 2023; Vol. 735, c. 71.]
Such services go beyond a banking hub, but they are now vanishing. While the Financial Conduct Authority is responsible for access to cash, it appears that there is no Government body overseeing access to face-to-face banking services. Does the Minister agree that new regulation is needed to support residents and businesses in rural areas, especially as banks will prevent customers from cashing cheques in post offices from January?
Lucy Rigby
We recognise the important role that post offices, in particular, play in providing essential banking services as well as banking hubs. Decisions about which services are available at post offices—such as cheque deposits—are made by banks as part of their commercial arrangements. I should emphasise that customers continue to have other options for paying in cheques, which I know is an issue for the hon. Member; in the case of Lloyds, it can be done via Freepost. As I have said, I look forward to discussing these issues further with the hon. Member during our meeting.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
One way of improving access to banking in rural and, indeed, urban areas would be to increase the reach and role of community banks, or community development finance institutions. Given that CDFIs play a big role in American economic life and are backed to do so by the biggest banks, would it not be good if our biggest banks helped to fund their expansion here as well?
Lucy Rigby
My hon. Friend is well versed in all these areas, and has done considerable work in this regard. As I have said, the banks play a role in providing access to cash, for instance via post office banking services.
Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)
In this month of blaming everyone else for every woe that befalls the Government and using it as an excuse to bust manifesto pledges left, right and centre, it seems that the Government are claiming credit for more banking hubs, but we all know that the rolling out of banking hubs is a purely commercial decision by the banks. It is the banks that are choosing to do this, to serve their customers. Is it now the Government’s policy to blame everyone else for their own incompetences, and to claim credit for everyone else’s good ideas?
Lucy Rigby
Where it is appropriate to do so—indeed, it is very often appropriate to do so—we will blame the Conservative party for the state of the country, and it is appropriate to do so here. On the criteria that Link uses for banking hubs, I will remind the hon. Gentleman that, in relation to the access to cash regime, that was designed and passed by the previous Government.
Sarah Russell (Congleton) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rachel Reeves)
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. She is a proud supporter of everything in the Congleton constituency. This Government are committed to regional growth, with growth in all parts of the United Kingdom. That is why the Treasury has reformed the Green Book, looking at the value for money of different projects. It is also why, in Cheshire East, where my hon. Friend’s constituency is, we have put £47 million into local transport grant funding.
Sarah Russell
I thank the Chancellor for her answer. In my constituency, Dane Valley Community Energy, a marvellous group of volunteers, has raised hundreds of thousands of pounds for solar panels on schools and other local buildings, including Daneside theatre and Havannah primary school. Unfortunately, recent Government guidance has suspended applications in respect of solar panels for schools. Will the Chancellor look at that guidance and work with Ministers in other Departments to review that outcome?
Rachel Reeves
I thank my hon. Friend for drawing this issue to my attention. I agree that community projects such as solar panels are a fantastic opportunity to get down bills for schools so that they have more money to spend on teachers and on books. On my hon. Friend’s specific question about solar installations, there was a temporary pause in applications, but I am happy to confirm that the Department for Education has resumed approvals for solar panels on school sites. I would urge my hon. Friend to encourage the schools in her constituency to apply for the new projects in the normal way.
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Torsten Bell)
At the heart of this Government’s pension reforms is the goal of bigger and better pension schemes. We are legislating for that in the Pension Schemes Bill by requiring all local government pension scheme assets to be pooled next year, and multi-employer defined contribution schemes to have at least £25 billion-worth of assets. This reform agenda will deliver returns for savers and ensure that schemes have the scale required to invest in productive assets across the country.
Anna Dixon
Many of my constituents have assets in the West Yorkshire Pension Fund, which manages more than £19 million. I am concerned, however, that some of the fund’s investments are concentrated in sectors that cause harm, such as the fossil fuel industry. Does the Minister agree that the West Yorkshire Pension Fund could invest in socially valuable activities, such as the regeneration of the town centre in Shipley and social homes?
Torsten Bell
The LGPS actually has a strong track record of local investment of exactly the kind that my hon. Friend mentions, including in social housing, and we want to build on that record. The Pension Schemes Bill will introduce requirements for local government pension scheme pools to work with strategic authorities, including mayoral strategic authorities, on local investment opportunities—[Interruption.] Before they decided that full-time chuntering was their business of the day, I thought the Conservatives used to be in favour of that. With the highest sustained levels of public investment since the 1970s, Britain will get back in the business of investing in its future once again.
Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)
Pension providers play a key role in helping Britain’s tech start-ups turn into world-leading scale-ups, but around £3 trillion in pension funds sits idle. That money should be used to support our tech sector. Will the Minister commit to accelerating the Mansion House reforms successfully introduced by the last Conservative Government?
Torsten Bell
I thank the hon. Member for his question. I agree with where he started, but unfortunately he then went on to praise some of the work done under the last Government, when we did not see the investment that he talks about coming through and reaching entrepreneurs, who he rightly says we should do more to support. That is what the Mansion House Accord, which we have now put in place and supported for the private sector, is doing, and what the British Business Bank is doing by bringing forward the British Growth Partnership. We need to see UK pension funds investing in our most innovative, fastest-growing companies.
Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) (Lab)
The establishment of the Sterling 20 sends a strong signal that this country is serious about mobilising more of its own domestic capital into productive domestic assets. As the Oxford-Cambridge growth corridor’s anchor, my Buckingham and Bletchley constituency is primed to offer high-quality investment opportunities. Can the Minister set out more detail about how he is working with local authorities, such as the Labour-run Milton Keynes city council, to ensure that we provide that pipeline, and will he meet me to discuss how we can take it further?
Torsten Bell
My hon. Friend is always a powerful advocate, both for the fast-growing companies in his constituency and for the right pension policy for the UK as a whole, as we saw when he sat on the Pension Schemes Public Bill Committee. Sterling 20 is a new, investor-led partnership between the UK’s 20 largest pension funds and insurers. It was established at the regional investment summit in Birmingham on 21 October, and we are working closely with the partnership to deliver exactly the kind of investment that my hon. Friend talks about.
Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)
Pension scheme trustees have an obligation to make decisions that they believe are in the best interests of savers, which is otherwise known as their fiduciary duty. The reserve powers in the Pension Schemes Bill could force investment in Government vanity projects, which is contrary to that duty. Does the Minister agree with me and much of the pension industry that mandation is a massive state overreach and is gambling with the futures of those saving for retirement?
Gareth Davies (Grantham and Bourne) (Con)
Mobilising more investment from the UK pension fund market is critical to driving regional economic growth. The Chancellor says that she is a builder, not a blocker, but her proposed builders tax threatens to drastically increase the cost of building anything from homes and roads to nuclear power stations. This will make investing in UK infrastructure increasingly unviable. To avoid even more investment-killing uncertainty, will the Minister agree to scrap Labour’s proposed landfill tax reforms and let Britain get back to building?
Torsten Bell
I can reassure the hon. Member that we are scrapping the attitude of the Conservative party, which blocked any building from happening anywhere in this country year after year. Houses were blocked. Railways were blocked. Anything that involved any difficult choices was blocked by a party that gave up governing long before the general election.
Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Dan Tomlinson)
HMRC is committed to improving day-to-day performance and the customer experience. Call waiting times in the first quarter of this year were half as long as in the same period last year, which is good news for customers. At the 2025 spending review, the Government allocated £500 million to make HMRC a digital-first organisation, and that transformation is well under way.
Shaun Davies
I welcome the Government’s £20 million investment in relocating and upgrading Telford’s HMRC office, with 1,000 members of staff working hard to deliver the best service possible. Will the Minister meet me and Telford and Wrekin council to discuss how the new HMRC campus can be at the forefront of improving the customer experience, including by harnessing the potential of AI and tech, as well as partnering with the start-up sector?
Dan Tomlinson
My hon. Friend is a very strong advocate for Telford, both for jobs in the private sector and for those in the public sector that we are able to support in his community. I am glad to hear that he, like me, is proud of HMRC’s Telford campus and wants to see it play a key role in improving customer experience through innovation, AI and digital technology. I will be very happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss those issues.
Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)
The Chancellor has justified her lack of a licence for renting out her house as an “inadvertent error”, but HMRC is never prepared to accept that people make inadvertent errors. Will this now change, or does the Chancellor expect to be treated differently from everyone else who makes an inadvertent error?
Dan Tomlinson
I am not sure that the matter that the right hon. Member just raised has much to do with HMRC.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
The Treasury Committee looks at HMRC’s customer service. We have recently seen people having their child benefit stopped, ostensibly on the basis of travel data. Could the Minister explain what he is doing to resolve this issue and what data HMRC based its information on?
Dan Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend for her service on the Treasury Committee; she is doing a sterling job as its Chair. This is a really important issue. Last year HMRC undertook a pilot to try to find a way to reduce fraud in the child benefit system. That measure is expected to save £350 million over the next five years, and we have already managed to prevent £17 million in wrongful payments, but my hon. Friend is right to say that a very small number of claimants had their child benefit incorrectly removed. I am really sorry that that happened. HMRC is writing to those who have been affected and ensuring that people who should get their child benefit payments do receive them.
Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)
My constituent Hollie from Wimborne applied for a self-assessment refund of just £300 in April. When she chased it in June, she was told it had gone to a specialist tax team, with no reason and no time frame given. She complained in August, but it is now November, and she has heard nothing. While she may be owed only £300, this is happening around the country. Can the Minister tell me whether he thinks seven months is a reasonable time within which to receive a basic refund, and what the Department is doing to speed things up?
Dan Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Member for raising her constituent’s issue, and I would be happy for her to write to the Department about it. Even though it is not appropriate for me to get involved in an individual taxpayer’s affairs, I hope the Department can improve on that service. We have improved the response rates for both people making phone calls and people getting in touch via the post, but of course there is always more we can do.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
Gareth Bacon (Orpington) (Con)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rachel Reeves)
The previous Government left a £22 billion black hole in the public finances, and in the Budget last year I had to take urgent action to ensure our public finances were on a firm footing and to properly fund our public services, including a £29 billion investment every year in our national health service. The Opposition cannot support more investment in our public services unless they support the tax changes to pay for it.
Wendy Morton
I am not convinced that that answer went anywhere near my question. Family businesses are the lifeblood of communities and constituencies such as mine. Last week, I met Family Business UK to discuss how the Government’s national insurance hike and restrictions to business property relief are forcing businesses to pause investment, think twice about taking on more staff and, in some cases, even to close their doors. Ahead of the Budget, will the Chancellor meet me and representatives from family businesses to seek ways in which the Government will work with, not against, these really key businesses?
Rachel Reeves
I thank the right hon. Lady for that question, and 43% of employers—almost 1 million—will pay no employer national insurance this year. That is an increase because of the changes we made to the employment allowance. Over half of employers with NIC liabilities will see no change, or will gain overall, and businesses can employ younger people—those aged under 21 and apprentices under 25—without NICs. However, the Conservatives must decide whether they will stick with this change to national insurance. If they are not going to, they will have to admit that they will not be able to put the money into the national health service.
Joe Robertson
According to the British Retail Consortium, the Chancellor’s last Budget caused a £7 billion cost to retail, leading to shop closures, declining high streets and job losses. If the Chancellor will not acknowledge the damage she has caused, how will she go about rectifying it? Can I recommend that she starts with the 100% business rate relief put forward by the shadow Chancellor?
Rachel Reeves
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. In his own constituency in the Isle of Wight, the six-monthly waiting list figures show that 5% fewer people are waiting for 18 weeks or longer. That is only possible because of the money we put into the NHS because of the tax changes we made. On retail sales and the impact on shops, retail sales have increased for the last four months in a row, with the most recent numbers for August and September outpacing expectations.
Gareth Bacon
It was always blindingly obvious that increasing employer national insurance would lead to an increase in business costs, which would lead to higher prices hitting working people directly, and to rises in inflation. Sure enough, inflation has risen steadily under this Government, and it is now at almost twice its recommended level. At the last Budget, we were told it was necessary to raise taxes on businesses by £25 billion to pay for the NHS, and large amounts of money have indeed been paid to unionised workers, but just yesterday the Office for National Statistics announced that NHS productivity had fallen by 1.5% since Labour took office. Can the Chancellor explain what exactly my Orpington businesses are paying more tax for?
Rachel Reeves
In the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, the number of people waiting more than 18 weeks for an appointment has also fallen. That is exactly what that money is being used for. He needs to be clear, and so do those on the Opposition Front Bench: if they want to reverse the increase to national insurance, they must also accept that there will be less money for our national health service. That is a choice, and it would be interesting to hear whether it is the Opposition’s choice.
Catherine West (Hornsey and Friern Barnet) (Lab)
On 6 December, Small Business Saturday will have us all out in our constituencies supporting small businesses. Following the announcement this morning about the need to enhance productivity, what measures will the Treasury be introducing to assist small businesses in the current tough climate?
Rachel Reeves
My hon. Friend is a strong champion for people in Hornsey and Wood Green, including small businesses. Last year at the Budget, we set out the principles in the consultation on business rates reform. Our principle is to make it easier for small businesses and high street businesses, while making sure that the online retail giants pay their fair share of tax. We will be setting out more information on our reformed business rate system to help our high streets and help our small businesses on 26 November.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Conservative party gave us austerity, Brexit and Liz Truss, including high interest rates and high inflation. This Government, so far, have delivered the highest growth in the G7, five interest rate cuts and record high levels of investment. Is it not the truth that the Conservative party, over 14 years, was the reason businesses were struggling?
Mr Speaker
Order. This is just a rant, with nothing relevant to the question.
Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)
Opposition Members spend a lot of time complaining about the difficult decisions taken by this Labour Government, so I wonder whether the Chancellor can remind them what we have been able to do for public services and infrastructure as a result of this Government’s revenue-raising policies.
Rachel Reeves
That is exactly the case. The tax changes we made at the Budget last year enabled us to put £29 billion extra a year into the NHS, but also to roll out free school meals and free breakfast clubs for young people. That is the difference this Government are making. On capital spending, because of the changes I made to our fiscal rules, we are able to invest £120 billion more on our energy security, our digital infrastructure and new homes through our industrial strategy. That is the difference that this Labour Government are making.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
Analysis by UKHospitality suggests that more than half the job losses in the UK since last year’s Budget have come from its sector. That is further evidence that the jobs tax has been bad for growth and bad for job opportunities. We Liberal Democrats have set out fairer ways of raising revenue and going for growth, so rather than the Government suggesting that we have not done so, can I instead ask them: will they use the Budget to consult on a new lower national insurance contribution band to create opportunities for part-time workers, especially in hospitality?
Rachel Reeves
We increased the employment allowance at the Budget last year. That is, rightly, agnostic between part-time and full-time workers. That is why 865,000 businesses will not be paying national insurance at all this year—an increase to help our smallest businesses. Employment is up 358,000 so far this year; that is very different from the picture that the hon. Lady just tried to set out.
Maureen Burke (Glasgow North East) (Lab)
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Dan Tomlinson)
The Government value our world-leading distilling industry and recognise that the spirits sector has found recent economic conditions challenging because of both tariff uncertainty and high energy costs. The Scotch industry is set to be among the biggest beneficiaries from the landmark trade deal that this Government secured with India, which is set to reduce tariffs from 150% to 75% initially, and then to 40% over time.
Maureen Burke
Scotch whisky is one of Scotland’s greatest products, with high demand at home and across the globe, but many are worried about the challenges facing the industry. The Scotch Whisky Association is calling for a multi-year freeze on excise duty for spirits to relieve some of those pressures and to back the wider hospitality sector. Will the Minister join me, GMB Scotland and others by committing to freeze spirits duty in the Budget later this month?
Dan Tomlinson
My hon. Friend is a strong advocate for the businesses and industry in her constituency and in the areas nearby. As she is aware, the vast majority of Scotch is exported, so it is not subject to UK excise taxes. Nevertheless, the Government appreciate the importance of the domestic market to Scotch producers, and I do acknowledge the wider pressures facing the industry. On her specific question, the Government’s baseline assumption remains that alcohol duties will be increased with inflation each year to maintain their real-terms values, which means that any cut or freeze would come at a cost to the Exchequer. Of course, as with all taxes, the Chancellor—not a junior Treasury Minister—will confirm her decisions on alcohol duty as part of the Budget process in the normal way.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
The Scottish Secretary—a grown man who seems easy to upset—was very upset recently when the First Minister of Scotland had direct meetings with the President of the United States over whisky tariffs. The SNP and the First Minister will always stand up for Scotch whisky. Will the Chancellor follow suit, or will she continue in the Treasury’s long-standing tradition of suckling off the enterprise of Scottish businesses rather than supporting them? Her tax hike on Scotch whisky last year cost jobs and investment in Scotland. Will she now stand up—
Dan Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Member for his question, and I remind him of the landmark trade deal that this Government secured with India. He criticises the Government for not doing enough, but we have secured a trade deal with India, the EU and the US. We are also reducing tariffs to support industry and investing in Scotland with a record-breaking Budget to support jobs, investment and growth, and the public sector across the whole of Scotland.
Siân Berry (Brighton Pavilion) (Green)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (James Murray)
More than 700,000 small businesses across the UK pay no business rates at all as they receive 100% small business rate relief. We are transforming business rates over this Parliament. We are cutting bureaucracy, too—removing the need for the owners of small businesses such as family-run cafés to submit pages and pages of directors’ reports to Companies House.
Siân Berry
Grassroots music venues are a vital part of the heart, soul and economy of Brighton Pavilion. Treasury Ministers have admitted that fairer business rates valuation methods are not currently used for many of these businesses—my local venues are calling the burdens punitive and a threat to viability. Will the Chancellor assure me that she will not forget grassroots music venues in her Budget?
James Murray
We very much recognise the role that grassroots music venues play in constituencies right across our country. In our reforms, on which we will set out more detail at the Budget on 26 November, we will have permanently lower business rates for retail, hospitality and leisure premises, with rateable values below £500,000.
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
Despite representing only around 9% of the UK’s economic output, the retail and hospitality sectors contribute around a third of all business rates paid. Does the Minister agree that high streets such as that in St Austell are public goods, and will he ensure that independent small businesses such as those he has described, which are central to our communities and economies, are no longer penalised by an arcane business rates system that undervalues their public contribution?
James Murray
High streets in St Austell and constituencies right across the country need more support from the business rates system. That is why we are transforming the system to ask larger premises, including the warehouses used by online giants, to pay slightly more in order to cut permanently the business rates payable by smaller premises on high streets across the country.
James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)
When the Chancellor imposed £40 billion of tax rises, she chose to double business rates for leisure, retail and hospital businesses—and she is going to come back for more. It may be in vain, but perhaps I can offer her a policy suggestion: scrap business rates for 250,000 shops, pubs and restaurants. Rather than hike taxes, will she adopt Conservative policy and control welfare spending so that we can back our small businesses?
James Murray
That question barely deserves a response. The business rates relief we inherited from the previous Government when we came into office was due to end entirely in April of this year. It is only because of us that it was extended for a year while we put in place permanently lower multipliers for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses. Those are businesses on high streets right across our country, and that will be announced at the Budget on 26 November.
Sally Jameson (Doncaster Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Dan Tomlinson)
We consulted on measures to simplify gambling duty and improve compliance. The responses from the consultation have now been analysed, and a response will be set out at the autumn Budget. We recognise the social and cultural value of horseracing, which is why we are listening to the horseracing sector as we consider our response to the consultation.
Sally Jameson
In Doncaster we have historic links to the horseracing industry, and we know at first hand the economic value it brings to our community and the country. Will the Minister agree to meet the British Horseracing Authority to discuss the potential impact on harmonisation and the impact that an increase in betting duties will have on the viability of racecourses, jobs and levy payments that support horseracing and the wider sporting industry?
Dan Tomlinson
My hon. Friend is a strong advocate for the horseracing industry and the jobs and economic activity in her constituency. I was glad to meet her just last week to discuss the topic she raises. As part of the consultation, there has been engagement with the horseracing industry to identify any potential unintended consequences for the sector and consider how they might be mitigated. As I said, the Government will respond to the consultation at the Budget. In response to her question, yes, I will happily meet with the BHA.
Jack Rankin (Windsor) (Con)
Both Ascot and Royal Windsor racecourses are incredibly important to my constituency. I have visited both, and I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. On this issue, I urge the Minister to heed warnings from across the House and, more importantly, the industry. I cautiously welcome the briefing to The Telegraph at the weekend. Racing should be treated very differently from online casinos and gaming. Can he assure the House that taxes on horse and greyhound race flutters will not increase?
Dame Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (James Murray)
I thank my hon. Friend for her question; I know she is a tireless champion for working families in Newcastle. We know that for too long, people have felt that they are putting too much in and not getting enough back. That is why this Government have increased the national living wage by £1,400 this year for full-time workers, putting more money directly into the pockets of around 3 million working people. The north east combined authority investment zone will benefit from £160 million of investment to deliver £2 billion in private sector investment and 4,000 jobs.
Dame Chi Onwurah
Under 14 years of Tory misrule, workers in the north-east saw their average annual earnings fall, causing a cost of living crisis for families across the region. We have fantastic, passionate and productive workers. Will the Minister promise to continue to turn back on Tory failure by investing in the industry of the north-east to deliver high-wage, high-quality jobs as part of a Budget for working people?
James Murray
My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the Conservatives’ record in office, and she is right that in her constituency there are fantastic, passionate and productive workers who need a Government—which they now have—who will invest in good jobs and skills, and who will put workers’ rights on a better footing than they were when we took over from the previous Government. At the Budget, the Chancellor will be led by the Government’s commitment to fairness, and she will be focused on protecting our NHS, reducing the national debt and improving the cost of living.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. This question is linked to Newcastle, so we will go to the next question.
Gill Furniss (Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Lucy Rigby)
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for her years of work to further financial inclusion both during her time here and prior to Parliament. This is a timely question, because tomorrow we will publish the Government’s financial inclusion strategy, which sets out an ambitious programme of measures to improve financial inclusion and resilience for communities right across the UK.
Gill Furniss
Earlier this year, I chaired a roundtable with the all-party parliamentary group on debt and financial inclusion that highlighted our five key asks. Nearly 70% of adults in my constituency are considered to be in financially vulnerable circumstances—among the highest proportions in the city. What steps does the Minister plan to take to measure the impact of the financial inclusion strategy? Will she meet me to discuss that?
Lucy Rigby
My hon. Friend raises a really important point. As part of developing the strategy, the Government have engaged with Financial Inclusion Committee members and other organisations on how to measure the impact of the strategy, and indeed to drive its delivery. The strategy’s implementation will be reviewed two years from publication against outcomes-based metrics to provide an update on progress. I will be more than happy to meet her to discuss this.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
When I was Economic Secretary, against the advice of officials I advanced something called the no interest loan scheme. I am given to believe that one of the Minister’s two predecessors since the general election may have suspended that valuable attempt to support the most vulnerable in society. Will she look at that again in advance of the Budget in three weeks? There really was wide cross-party support for it.
Lucy Rigby
I am aware of the scheme that the right hon. Member talks about. He will appreciate that I cannot pre-empt the launch of the strategy tomorrow, nor indeed the Budget, but I would be more than happy to meet him to talk about it in more detail.
Dr Simon Opher (Stroud) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rachel Reeves)
May I first pay tribute to all those who responded to Saturday’s horrendous attack: the quick-thinking driver, the emergency services, and the heroic LNER staff member Samir Zitouni who bravely saved the lives of passengers?
The Government were elected to break a cycle of decline. We have returned the public finances to a firm footing, invested in Britain and begun to rebuild our economy. But times remain challenging: global uncertainty is dampening growth and increasing the cost of borrowing; while inflation remains too high and productivity too low. In the face of those challenges, my task is clear. At the Budget later this month, I will continue to build the strong foundations to secure Britain’s future, protect our NHS, reduce our national debt and improve the cost of living for a fairer, more prosperous Britain with an economy that works for everyone.
Dr Opher
I am proud that the Government have invested £250 million in putting solar panels on schools and hospitals. In Stroud, we have a programme whereby, through community energy funding, we will put solar panels on every school in the area. I was going to ask the Chancellor about Treasury rules that were blocking that, but I heard from her answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Sarah Russell) that that may no longer be the case. Will she confirm that that block has been removed?
Rachel Reeves
It was good to see my hon. Friend and the engineering company Redler in Downing Street yesterday. On the issue about schools, as I said in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Sarah Russell), the scheme is now reopened. I have not had a look at the schools mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Dr Opher). There may be some issues with maintained schools, but we are looking into that and are keen to work with him to ensure that schools in his constituency—indeed, schools in all hon. Members’ constituencies—can benefit from the scheme.
Richard Fuller (North Bedfordshire) (Con)
What is the Chancellor’s definition of “working people”?
Rachel Reeves
A working person is somebody who goes out every day to earn their income. They rely on prices that are affordable in the shops, low interest rates and taxes that are as low as possible, but also public services that work for them, like the NHS, where waiting lists have already come down by more than 200,000.
Richard Fuller
That is a very broad definition. Maybe the Chancellor should speak to the Prime Minister, the Transport Secretary, the Education Secretary and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who have all given different definitions of working people over the last 12 months. After last year’s Budget, the Chancellor said that she had wiped the slate clean, but that was not true, Chancellor, was it? She said that she would not be coming back with more taxes, but that was not true, Chancellor, was it? At the election, the Chancellor said that she would not raise taxes on working people, but that was not true either, was it, Chancellor? When will the Chancellor learn the truth that she is not a commentator on the country’s economic problems; she is the cause?
Rachel Reeves
When we came into office last year, there was a £22 billion black hole in the public finances. The reserve that is set out for genuine emergencies had already been spent four times over only three months into the financial year. That is the reality. We increased taxes in the Budget last year to stabilise the public finances and to put a much-needed injection of cash into our public services, principally our national health service. Since then, anyone can see the big challenges facing the world, as well as the productivity that never materialised under the past Government.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. Please, I have a lot of Members to get in and I am trying to help everybody. Don’t be tempted—that is the easy answer.
Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (James Murray)
At the spending review, we enabled better investment in temporary accommodation stock and strengthened local authorities’ financial position. Those changes will support local authorities to increase the supply of good-quality temporary accommodation and drive down day-to-day spend on such accommodation.
Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)
James Murray
At the spending review, as announced earlier this year by my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones), we set out record investment into the farming and rural communities right across this country. That is only possible because of the choices that we have made on taxation and to balance the public finances.
Andy MacNae (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab)
Rachel Reeves
I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for his campaigning work on this. At the spending review, I announced the changes to the Green Book and particularly our work on place-based business cases, looking at how spending can cumulatively benefit an area. We are rolling out the new Green Book with some test cases. I am determined that we get investment that is long overdue into our northern towns and cities.
Lewis Cocking (Broxbourne) (Con)
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Dan Tomlinson)
The House will be aware that the 5p cut to fuel duty is set to expire in March 2026, and as with other tax policies, the Chancellor will make a final decision on fuel duty rates at the Budget in the context of the public finances.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
Rachel Reeves
The NHS will remain free at the point of use for as long as there is a Labour Government. That is not something that Reform is able to promise. As usual, Reform does one thing and says another. In Kent, the party said that it would find efficiencies to keep down council tax, but it has not found a single one and that is why the 2 million people who live in Reform council areas will get a council tax rise next year.
Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)
Dan Tomlinson
Under the last Government, time and again, council tax went up and up and the funding for local councils went down and down. We have left councils on their knees, struggling when it comes to special educational needs, temporary accommodation and funding for homelessness and adult social care. This Government will make the right decisions when it comes to funding our councils and having a fair property taxation system.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Bromborough) (Lab)
Dan Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. The Government are fully committed to doing all they can to supporting the UK car industry to grow, invest and provide employment in constituencies such as his and in other important sites across the country. Specifically on the employee car ownership scheme, we should be clear that private use of a company car is a valuable benefit to an employee but it is also right that company car tax is paid on it, ensuring fairness with other taxpayers who pay tax on cars provided by their employers. That said, I would be happy to meet—
Mr Speaker
Order. Please. I am trying to help Members. Minister, tell me which one you do not want to get in, because that is what it is getting to.
Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)
I recently joined Sarah Laker and the wonderful team at Stationery Supplies in Marple to celebrate an impressive 20 years in business, but recent research by the British Retail Consortium and UKHospitality has shown that 120,000 high street jobs are potentially at risk as a result of proposed changes to business rates next April. Could the Chancellor and Ministers confirm that the forthcoming Budget will support my 250 local retail businesses through a meaningful reduction in rates and ensure that no shop pays more?
Mr Speaker
Order. Members are meant to shorten their questions for topicals.
Dan Tomlinson
We will be introducing permanently lower rates for those businesses in the Budget.
Kenneth Stevenson (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Lucy Rigby)
I am indeed aware of this issue. I know that it affects people in my hon. Friend’s constituency and in plenty of other Members’ constituencies, too. I also know how concerned he and other Members are about it. It is for the Financial Conduct Authority to consider whether it is appropriate to take any further steps, but I have asked my officials to engage with the FCA on how it is approaching this.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland and Fakenham) (Con)
Economists have told the Chancellor that stamp duty is a terrible tax because it damages growth. The Government’s response is to double stamp duty on a £300,000 house. Why?
Dan Tomlinson
In the end, when it comes to property taxation, we have to make sure that we have a fair and sustainable system that brings in revenues from a range of sources. Scrapping individual taxes without any realistic and plausible plan to fund them is the road to economic ruin in this country. We have seen what happened in the past when Conservative Governments came forward with plans to cut taxes without the means to afford it. We on this side of the House will not be making that mistake.
Ms Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
James Murray
The work that my right hon. Friends the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have been doing with Europe is all about taking down trade barriers where they get in the way of our national interest and economic growth. That is our priority, as well as cutting bureaucracy for businesses here in the UK.
Dame Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
The Chancellor justified at the Dispatch Box what a working person is. Will she reiterate at the Dispatch Box now what she said to the British public during the general election campaign, which is that her forthcoming Budget will not raise taxes on working people?
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
How will the Government help to fund the green infrastructure that we need, as through the coastal energy partnership that I helped to set up in Bournemouth, with Great British Energy taking on early stage project development and the National Wealth Fund making those critical long-term investments?
James Murray
Through our investments in the National Wealth Fund, Great British Energy, the British Business Bank and UK Export Finance, we are using every lever the Government have to support businesses to thrive—in stark contrast with the previous Government, which left them high and dry.
Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
Charities, trade unions, academics and industry are united in their view that replacing the energy profits levy is not just an economic imperative, but a moral one. How many more of my constituents need to lose their jobs before the Government do just that?
Dan Tomlinson
At the Budget we will set out clearly our proposals for the future of the energy profits levy and the oil and gas mechanism. We will ensure that we can provide the certainty to business on the future regime as soon as we can.
Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
People in Crook and Tow Law are excited by the £20 million that the Chancellor is investing in our area through the pride in place scheme. After years of decline under the previous Government, which failed to spend most of the levelling-up money that they promised our community, what assurance can she give me that this time it will be local people in the driving seat and that we can spend the funds?
James Murray
I am glad to hear that the people of Crook and Tow Law are already thinking about how to use their pride in place funding to improve their local area. Children at Peases West primary school will be reassured to know that improving local playparks and upgrading community facilities will be possible under this funding.
Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)
From her CV to her tax promises, would the Chancellor know the truth if it stood right in front of her?
Mr Speaker
Order. You do not need to bother answering that, Chancellor—we will now move on.
Valerie Vaz (Walsall and Bloxwich) (Lab)
Will the Chancellor update the House on how and when schools can apply for libraries for primaries funding, which she announced on 29 September?
Rachel Reeves
We have made a commitment that every single primary school in England will have a library by the end of this Parliament. The Department for Education will set out the process in due course, but any primary school without a library can rest assured that it will have one soon.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Will the Chancellor consider in her Budget closing the loophole in small business rates relief that allows wealthy second homeowners to have their homes on the rental market for 72 nights a year and therefore avoid paying any tax whatsoever? My constituents working the minimum wage are having to subsidise them. That is not fair, is it?
Dan Tomlinson
We will set out the changes that we will make to business rates at the Budget.
Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)
The Government’s pride in place programme presents a welcome opportunity for communities across the country to once again feel proud of where they live, especially after years of austerity and neglect under successive Conservative Governments. However, the Isle of Wight received none of that funding, which feels like an oversight, given the challenges our island faces, not least with cross-Solent transport. Will the Chancellor assure me that she is doing everything possible to ensure that islanders are not left behind and that they, too, can benefit from this programme and feel pride in our island once again?
James Murray
The pride in place funding is going towards 250 communities across the country to ensure that local people are in control of investing in their local areas. I note my hon. Friend’s comments about the community that he represents. Of course, the Government’s wider agenda about driving growth, increasing people’s wages and ensuring that people are better off is central to improving the lives of his constituents and those right across the UK.
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
Since the Chancellor delivered her speech this morning, the FTSE 100 has dropped by over £22 billion—the real £22 billion rather than the fantasy £22 billion black hole. What can the Chancellor say right now to steady the markets so that all our constituents’ pensions are protected?
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Torsten Bell)
What this Government have done to steady the markets is to kick the Conservatives out of office and leave them in opposition for years to come.
Claire Hazelgrove (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Lab)
I welcome our Government’s recent Typhoon deal with Türkiye, which will see the brilliant team at Rolls-Royce in Filton play a key role in engine production and maintenance. Will the Chancellor join me in congratulating them, our local small and medium-sized enterprises and others, and set out how integral she sees defence as an engine for growth?
Rachel Reeves
My hon. Friend is a solid defender of businesses and working people in her constituency. The defence industrial strategy is about supporting British industry as we—and other countries around the world—up what we spend on defence. We want British businesses and British workers to benefit from that investment.
Rupert Lowe (Great Yarmouth) (Ind)
Through freedom of information requests, Restore Britain has uncovered unpublished Treasury analysis breaking down contributions by ethnicity. Evidently the data exists, so will the Chancellor commit to going further by publishing the same analysis by nationality, so that we can see which groups are paying their way, and, more importantly, which groups are not?
James Murray
Mr Speaker, I am considering how to respond to that question. I will simply leave it at saying that everyone must pay their fair share of tax. That is something that the Labour party are committed to in government.
Lloyd Hatton (South Dorset) (Lab)
On a more constructive note, for the past year I have been campaigning hard for Eden Portland to open in my constituency. If opened, it would be a world-class attraction, rejuvenating Portland, attracting investment, creating well-paid jobs and promoting our coast. The project is a success story waiting to happen, so will the Chancellor of the Exchequer continue to work with me, Dorset council and the team at Eden Portland to deliver that exciting project as soon as possible?
Rachel Reeves
I thank my hon. Friend again for raising the opportunities in Portland. As he knows, we are working closely with Dorset council, the project and him to bring that to fruition.
Chris Coghlan (Dorking and Horley) (LD)
The Chancellor knows that I agree with her that the use of public research and development is one of the most effective levers for economic growth, but it will not significantly increase over the entire five-year spending review period. If the Government are serious about economic growth, they must find a way to increase public research and development. Does she agree?
Rachel Reeves
We are increasing spending on research and development in real terms and in every year of this Parliament, for exactly the reasons that the hon. Gentleman mentions. But we are doing more than that: we are supporting start-up and scale-up businesses through our pensions reform, through the British Business Bank and through UK Export Finance. We are absolutely determined to ensure that the money that goes into R&D in this country turns into great businesses that stay in this country.
Sarah Smith (Hyndburn) (Lab)
Will the Chancellor join me in congratulating the great work of Red Hat, a catapult based in Hyndburn that has supported the safeguarding of over 300 jobs and the development of 46 new products? Will she meet me to consider the role of catapults in supporting economic growth in places such as Hyndburn?
Rachel Reeves
Catapults have been a big success in driving economic activity, especially in manufacturing and engineering, which are prevalent in all parts of the country, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. It was a pleasure to visit Hyndburn with her last year. I look forward to having the opportunity to do so again.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
In the past few weeks, I have visited two incredible local businesses: Saragusta Spirits, a local gin distillery, and Williams Family Wines, an award-winning winery. However, such entrepreneurial success is being hampered by small producer relief adding significant additional duty cost and preventing businesses from growing. With English viticulture and wines enjoying a surge in popularity, will the Chancellor consider extending small producer relief to drinks above 8.5% ABV, and if not, why not?
Dan Tomlinson
All decisions relating to tax will be made at the Budget in late November.
Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) (Lab)
Claire founded Little Foxes Play Town in my constituency. It caters for and is enjoyed by children and parents in the community. However, Claire’s business has struggled with the cost of business rates and now with the requirement to pay VAT. Will the Minister assure me that the change in business rates will benefit small business owners such as Claire and ensure that they can continue to serve their local areas?
Dan Tomlinson
One important thing about the business rate reforms that the Government will undertake is that we support small businesses in growing and investing. They are the backbone of our communities and our country. The reforms that we will set out at the Budget—and on which we will continue to have conversations with Members across the House and with businesses—will, I hope, continue to support and enable investment in our small businesses.
Adrian Ramsay (Waveney Valley) (Green)
This morning the Chancellor spoke of difficult decisions for everybody but the ultra-rich. With billionaire wealth soaring while living standards for most people fall, does she agree that it is time to double down on gross inequality in our country and tax extreme wealth fairly, so that we can tackle the cost of living crisis, end child poverty and invest in our public services?
Rachel Reeves
As the hon. Gentleman knows, that is not what I said in my speech this morning. In last year’s Budget we got rid of the non-dom tax status, we introduced VAT and business rates on private schools, we increased capital gains tax, we increased tax on private jets and we got rid of the carried interest—more than the Green party has ever done to reduce inequality in this country.
Terry Jermy (South West Norfolk) (Lab)
So often the farm is the very core of a rural economy. Could my hon. Friend confirm what assessment has been made about the impact of proposed changes to agricultural property relief on growth opportunities in rural areas and the viability of rural communities?
Dan Tomlinson
As I said earlier, the proposals made by CenTax and others in relation to agricultural property relief would result in twice as many farms paying more tax as are planned to do under the Government’s proposals. We think our proposals are right and fair.
Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)
Asylum accommodation costs are set to quadruple in Northern Ireland, from £100 million to £400 million, and across the UK to £15.3 billion in the next decade. Before hiking taxes again, should the Chancellor not look at where the waste really lies, when we are funding an asylum system that is failed, chaotic and expensive? This is not racist or far-right; it is looking after our own citizens who cannot pay their bills.
James Murray
I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady that we should reduce the cost of asylum accommodation. Indeed, that is why our commitment to close all asylum hotels in this Parliament is so important.
Brian Leishman (Alloa and Grangemouth) (Ind)
When will the Government lift the two-child cap?
Torsten Bell
The previous Labour Government cut child poverty significantly, and so will this one.
Iqbal Mohamed (Dewsbury and Batley) (Ind)
Between 2010 and 2020, the personal tax allowance threshold went up by 9.2% on average per year. However, it was frozen by the previous Government in 2021, and the freeze has continued under this Government. Will the Chancellor consider unfreezing the personal tax allowance and adjusting the additional rate and higher rate bands to compensate, to ensure that tax receipts are maintained?
Dan Tomlinson
It is important to realise that changes to taxation, if they are unfunded, will mean additional borrowing. This Government will ensure that we do not return to austerity, as the Conservatives did, but nor will we return to additional borrowing, which causes interest rates to rise, causes the cost of mortgages for families to go up and leads to economic chaos. That is not the approach this Government will take.
Bill Presented
Dairy Farming and Dairy Products Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Sarah Dyke presented a Bill to make provision to require the Secretary of State, in any negotiation relating to an international trade agreement, to seek to ensure that the agreement does not result in any detriment to UK dairy farmers; to make provision about the labelling of dairy products imported from outside the UK; to make provision about fair dealing between dairy farmers, processors and retailers, including in relation to pricing; to provide for certain additional contractual protections for dairy farmers; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 28 November, and to be printed (Bill 323).