Chagos Islands

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 13th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Farage (Clacton) (Reform)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if he will make a statement on the transfer of sovereignty of the Chagos islands to Mauritius.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Following two years of negotiation under three Prime Ministers, on 3 October the Government secured a deal that will protect the secure operation of the UK-US base on Diego Garcia well into the next century. The Government inherited a situation where that future was under threat. International courts were reaching judgments on the basis that Mauritius had sovereignty over the Chagos archipelago. International organisations were also taking steps not to undermine Mauritian sovereignty claims. That was not sustainable.

The base on Diego Garcia plays a critical role in countering an array of threats to regional and international security. Without legal certainty, the base simply cannot operate effectively. Continued uncertainty would be a gift to our adversaries. That is why the agreement has been welcomed by all parts of the US system, and other critical regional security partners, including India. Agreeing the deal now, on our terms, meant that we were able to secure strong protections that will allow the base to operate as it has done. We have secured a deal that protects our national interests, respects the interests of our partners and upholds the international rule of law. There will be clear commitments in the treaty to robust security arrangements, including arrangements preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands, so that the base can continue to operate securely and effectively. We would not have signed off on an agreement that compromised any of our security interests, or those of our allies.

The agreement will be underpinned by a financial settlement that is acceptable to both sides, and will underpin a strong, long-term partnership with Mauritius. That was crucial to securing the agreement. The Government will not scrimp on our national security; however, I am sure that the House will understand that it is not normal practice for the UK to reveal the value of payments for military bases anywhere across the globe, because to do so would put at risk their future secure operation.

The deal will also deliver benefits for the Chagossian community, who were removed from the islands in the 1960s and 1970s. I know that the whole House has already expressed, and will join me in again expressing, regret for that shameful episode. Mauritius will now be able to implement a programme of resettlement to the islands, other than Diego Garcia, and we will work together to start a programme of visits for Chagossians to all the islands. The UK will finance a new trust fund for Mauritius to support Chagossians, and will provide additional Government support to those living in the UK. All Chagossians will of course remain eligible for British citizenship and free to make their home in the UK.

We will work with Mauritius to ensure the continued protection of the islands’ unique environment, with the shared objective of securing and protecting one of the world’s most important marine environments. That will include the establishment of a Mauritius marine protected area. The agreement also shuts down the possibility of the Indian ocean being used as a dangerous illegal migration route to the UK, with Mauritius taking responsible for any future arrivals.

The long-term protection of the base on Diego Garcia has been the shared UK and US priority throughout. This agreement secures its future. We look forward to engaging with the incoming US Administration. I congratulate both President Trump and Dr Ramgoolam on their recent election victories in the US and Mauritius respectively, and we look forward to working with their Governments on this matter. The agreement is in all sides’ shared interests, and in our national security interest.

[Nigel Farage]

Mauritius has no legal or historical claim to sovereignty over a group of islands that are 1,300 miles away from it, and the opinion of the International Court of Justice was purely advisory. There is no legal reason why we have to do any of this. I warned the Foreign Secretary six weeks ago in this Chamber that it was an enormous mistake to do this, given that we had a US presidential election coming up on 5 November. Ministers might say to me, “It’s okay—the United States is fully in favour.” Really? I can tell the House that the incoming national security adviser Mike Waltz has form on this, going right back to when the right hon. Member for Braintree (Mr Cleverly) was doing his best to give away the sovereignty of the Chagos islands; indeed, Mike Waltz wrote to Secretary of State Blinken at the time.

I assure the House, having been in America last week and knowing the incoming US Defence Secretary very well, that there is outright hostility towards this deal. Whatever is said about a lease agreement, these agreements can very easily be broken, as we saw with Hong Kong. Diego Garcia was described to me by a senior Trump adviser as the most important island on the planet for America, so the Minister will find outright hostility.

By the way, what happened to the Chagossian people was truly awful, but they are unanimous in their wish not to live under Mauritian rule; they want to live under British rule because they trust us.

There is no basis for this agreement. If the Government continue with it, they will be at conflict with a country without which we would be defenceless.

[Stephen Doughty]

I am afraid I fundamentally disagree with what the hon. Gentleman said. Let me be clear: this Government inherited a situation whereby the long-term secure operation of this crucial military base—he is right on that one point—was under threat. International courts were reaching judgments and international organisations were taking steps not to undermine Mauritian sovereignty. That threatened the secure and effective operation of the base. In the absence of a negotiated solution, a legally binding decision against the UK seemed inevitable. That would have threatened the secure and effective operation of the base, and that was not sustainable. [Interruption.]

On the hon. Gentleman’s comments about the incoming US Administration, we very much look forward to working with them, and I am sure that they will be briefed on the full detail of the deal. I am confident that the details of the arrangement will allay any concerns, otherwise we would not have entered into any such arrangement in the first place. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Francois, I welcome you back to the Front Bench, but I do not welcome you shouting from it continuously. Do we understand that we need calm? This is an important subject, so I do not want the rhetoric that is coming from there.

[Stephen Doughty]

Mr Speaker, I have known the right hon. Gentleman a long time, and he knows that he can come and speak to me about these matters at any point.

Let me be clear: we will work very closely with the incoming US Administration, and we are working closely with the current US Administration. This agreement had support across the national security apparatus of the United States. Otherwise, we would never have entered into an arrangement. The previous Government recognised the threats to the long-term operation of the base, which is why they started the negotiations in the first place, but this Government did the deal. Diego Garcia is important, but it is not at risk—it is more secure as a result of the deal. What the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) is suggesting is simply not the case.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Chagossians. What happened to them was completely wrong and shameful—that has been agreed on all sides of the House. I have engaged with the Chagossian community on a number of occasions. He will also recognise that there are a range of views across the Chagossian community, including those who support the deal. We have made sure that their interests are at the heart of the arrangement, whether in the trust fund, the unilateral arrangements, the continued commitment to UK citizenship for Chagossians, their ability to return to visit all the islands or the resettlement programme that Mauritius will restart under the treaty.

I am confident that this deal is the right thing for our national security, for the Chagossian community and for our allies and partners.

[Phil Brickell (Bolton West) (Lab)]

We heard representations from the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) about upholding international law. Does the Minister agree that it is important that the UK fulfils its international law obligations? Does he recognise that in 2021, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea confirmed that Mauritius has sovereignty over the Chagos islands? Does he agree that, notwithstanding that, the deal secures the long-term certainty of the base on Diego Garcia?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Agreeing this deal now on our terms means that we have been able to secure protections that will allow the base to operate as it has done into the next century. It settles the historical sovereignty claims in a way that successfully balances our international law obligations with vital UK and US national security requirements.

--- Later in debate ---

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The world is a more dangerous place than ever before in our lifetimes and this Government have agreed to give away a key strategic asset in the Indian ocean, ending more than 200 years of British sovereignty. It is the wrong decision, and we stand by that completely. A month has gone since the Government’s announcement, but we are still in the dark about exactly what they have agreed. That is simply not acceptable. We have no treaty and vital questions remain unanswered. That is unacceptable and the Minister needs to put it right today.

We cannot afford for our military base on Diego Garcia to be compromised in this way. What safeguards will be in place to ensure that no other states can establish themselves or place their assets, in particular strategic assets, on any nearby islands in the archipelago? How does the decision affect the strategic defence review that is under way? How much money will Labour be asking British taxpayers to send to Mauritius each year under the deal, which we do not even know the details of? Which departmental budgets will that come from? What is the total figure? The House expects transparency, including on what taxpayers will be funding. We need to hold the Government to account on this.

Will the Minister please give a cast-iron guarantee that the UK will be able to unilaterally extend the agreement on the military base beyond 99 years? That is all we have heard for now. What will be the mechanism for doing that? This is a crucial piece of scrutiny that we all need to know about, particularly as the Minister raised a point about national security and the national security apparatus agreeing to this arrangement. What discussions has the Foreign Secretary—I know he is not here today—personally undertaken with the Chagossian community, who the Minister will know are beyond distraught about the agreement?

The elections in Mauritius and the United States pose further questions, and it is right that we follow up on them. Labour rushed into the deal just before the Mauritian elections, even though Ministers must surely have realised that a change of Government was a strong possibility. Why did they do that? The Minister needs to be clear. We want to know how the Government are going to engage with the new US Administration. The Opposition oppose the Government’s decision and we intend to hold them to account.

[Stephen Doughty]

First, I welcome the shadow Foreign Secretary to her place in this Chamber. We were in a Committee earlier today, but I welcome her to her place. I have always had good engagement with her on issues in the past and she is right to ask important questions, but the first thing I need to do is correct the idea that we are somehow giving up the base. That is exactly the opposite of what we are doing. We are securing the future of the base. The base will continue to operate. It will continue to operate as it has done.

The right hon. Lady asks an important question about security guarantees in relation to the outer islands. There will be clear commitments in the treaty for robust security arrangements, including preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands. We simply would not have signed off an agreement that compromised any of our security interests or those of our allies. Indeed, this has been discussed not just at a political level in the United States, but at a deep technical level. She will know from her time in government about the nature of the special relationship and the depth of that relationship. That is why we have proceeded only on the basis that we were all satisfied with the arrangements.

The right hon. Lady will be able to scrutinise those arrangements in due course, as will the House, Mr Speaker. The treaty will be presented in the usual way after signature. It will go through the usual process. [Interruption.] She asks when. We have just had the Mauritian election. We will be engaging with the new Administration there and seeking to present the treaty for signature. We will then present it, in all its detail, to the House.

The right hon. Lady asked about an extension period. There is a provision in the treaty for an extension period after the 99-year period.

The right hon. Lady asked about the Chagossians. Again, I gently say that there are a range of views in the Chagossian community. They have been expressed to me on many occasions, both before I came into government and since I have been in government. There is a range of views on the arrangement. We respect all the different views that are out there. We will continue to engage with the Chagossian community, but I am absolutely clear that there are important provisions in the deal that support the Chagossian community: their ability to return to the outer islands, the visits, the trust fund, the unilateral support we will continue to provide, and the fact that Chagossians are welcome to come here to the UK and take up British citizenship, which was an agreement under the previous Government.

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

Portsmouth is the home of the Royal Navy, and as the Member for Portsmouth North, I welcome the appointment of Jonathan Powell, who played an important part in negotiating this deal, as National Security Adviser. Does the Minister agree that with his experience in helping to negotiate the Good Friday agreement and his work on some of the world’s most complex conflicts, he is uniquely place to advise the Government on tackling the challenges ahead and to protect the advancement of UK security?

[Stephen Doughty]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend, who I know takes a keen interest in the overseas territories, in particular Gibraltar. I totally agree with her about the new National Security Adviser. He is a remarkable individual with a huge track record in government of making deals and getting things done, which I know is appreciated by our friends on the opposite side of the Atlantic, too. He is somebody who takes the national security of this country extraordinarily seriously, so I completely agree with her characterisation.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)]

Many Chagossians from all over the country gathered at a rally yesterday, where they expressed their concerns about the UK-Mauritius agreement. We reiterate our concerns here today. The exclusion of the voice of the Chagossians is wrong. It cannot be right, and surely no Member of this House could think it acceptable that the Chagossians are denied the opportunity for self-determination.

Will the Minister update the House to confirm the timescales by which Parliament will have oversight of the final treaty? Will he look again at injecting the voice of Chagossians into the process, even at this late stage? May I also raise the case of the Tamils stranded on Diego Garcia? We welcome recent news reports that they will be airlifted to the UK, but will the Minister update the House on whether that will take place and whether they will be permitted a permanent right to resettlement in the UK?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who speaks for the Liberal Democrats, for his questions. I know that the future of the islands is hugely important to the Chagossian community. I have engaged with the Chagossian community over many, many years and since I have been in government. We have always been clear about the importance of respecting their interests. I have to say, though, that the negotiations were between the UK and Mauritius, as sovereign states, with our priority being to secure the full operation of the base on Diego Garcia. However, it is crucial that we recognise the importance of Chagossian interests within this process and we have done that.

I am confident that when the full deal is presented to Parliament, which it will be in due course, there will be important provisions in there that will reassure members of the Chagossian community. As I mentioned, some of them have already been made public: the ability to visit, the ability to resettle on the outer islands, the UK citizenship guarantees, the trust fund, and, of course, the UK’s own support, which is crucial and comes on the back of the support we have provided for some time.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the Sri Lankan migrants on Diego Garcia. This Government inherited a deeply troubling situation which remained unresolved under the last Administration for years after the migrants arrived on Diego Garcia, resulting in mounting legal challenges. We have been working at pace to find a solution that protects the welfare of individuals and the integrity of British territorial borders. Due to the exceptional nature of the cases, the Government have taken the decision to relocate a small number of the migrants to the UK, but that is subject to security checks. They will get a short period of permission to enter the UK, when the individuals can consider their personal circumstances and next steps.

[Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)]

One of the wonderful things about our Parliament and our democracy is that our citizens can see our proceedings, but so too can our foes. Those who wish us harm and have no good intentions towards us will look across at the Opposition Benches and see that there is not a credible national security team when they are asking questions of this Government.

I want to confine my question to a constituent of mine who has lived in the UK for the last 17 years after leaving the Chagos islands. He is keen to reunite with his family who are now UK citizens, but housing costs are an issue. Will the Minister get back to me with information on whether housing support could be part of the Government’s overall support for the Chagossian community?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Obviously, I do not know the full details of his constituent’s individual case, but if he writes to me, I will of course come back to him in due course.

[Mr James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)]

Can the Minister confirm or deny that the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) had any unminuted conversations with Philippe Sands KC about the Mauritian claim over the Chagos islands?

[Stephen Doughty]

The Prime Minister engaged with the former Prime Minister of Mauritius and with the US Administration on these matters. We have engaged with a wide range of partners in these discussions. The right hon. Gentleman is very familiar with them, as the former Foreign Secretary who was part of that process.

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will agree with me that, as we discuss the very important issues raised by the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), we must acknowledge that all right hon. and hon. Members are doing what is in the best interests of our country; that right hon. and hon. Members on the Opposition Benches do not have a monopoly on national security and defence; and, indeed, that it is this Government who are reforming and improving our international reputation around the world—our decision on the Chagos islands, which will protect the base and deal with the other issues my hon. Friend has mentioned, is an important part of that.

[Stephen Doughty]

Absolutely. The importance of national security to this Government is at the heart of the missions set out by the Prime Minister, which have been put into practice by the Foreign Secretary, the Defence Secretary and me, along with others across the Government. We would never take decisions that compromised the national security of this country, or indeed that of our allies, and that is why I am confident that this decision is the right one. Let us remember that this process was begun under the last Administration, because they recognised the challenge and recognised that something needed to be done about it.

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

Given that the Mauritian Government, with whom the Minister was dealing, have failed and are no longer in power, is this not a case of a deal with the wrong people at the wrong time for the wrong reasons, which has abandoned the Chagossians? The Chagossians made it very clear throughout—the fact cannot be misrepresented—that the vast majority wanted to go back, but they also wanted to remain British citizens. Now that we have an incoming Government in America and a new Government in Mauritius, what is the point of continuing with this agreement? We should start again, and recognise that the Chagossians do not want to be Mauritian. They want us to give them their property back, so why do we not just do that, and simplify the whole thing?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that the national security interests of this country and, indeed, those of our allies transcend Administrations. We have just had an election as well; his Government started this process, and we are the ones who got it done. As for Mauritius, we welcome Dr Ramgoolam’s election. I understand that he and his Government are to be sworn in over the next few days, and we look forward to working with them to take forward this agreement. He is a friend of the UK and has deep professional and personal connections with it, having studied and worked here. I should also point out that his party, in opposition, made clear that it in no way wanted to contend with the operation of our base on Diego Garcia. We are looking forward to engaging with the new Government in the days to come.

[Chris Curtis (Milton Keynes North) (Lab)]

In the spirit of cross-party working, would the Minister like to take this opportunity to thank the previous Conservative Government for starting negotiations on this important matter? They realised then, even if they do not realise it now, its importance to our country’s national security.

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank my hon. Friend for his observation. The former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Braintree (Mr Cleverly), appears to be on his way out, but he recognised, as did many others in the last Administration, that we needed to secure a long-term, sure and legal footing for this base to meet the security needs of ourselves and our allies. We are the Government who came in and got the deal done.

[Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)]

Does the Minister agree that the principal way to defend national security is to stand fast behind the international rules-based system, and that the principal way to do that is to adhere to the rulings of institutions such as the International Court of Justice?

A great deal of concern has been expressed during these exchanges about the sovereign democratic will of the Chagossians. What mechanism will the UK Government put in place to ensure that the House can be confident that the sovereign ambitions of the Chagossians as a people will be respected in this treaty, and not simply sacrificed for convenience?

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman is right about the importance of international law and adherence to it. This Government are committed to the rule of law, including international law. One reason we wanted to get this deal done was to put that base on a secure legal footing, along with our relationships with Mauritius and other states. There has been substantial criticism from other key partners around the world about our failure to reach a settlement, which was having an impact on our interests.

As I have said repeatedly, I have engaged with the Chagossians on many occasions, and we will continue to engage with them. We will continue to listen to the range of views in the community—there are a huge number—and to ensure that their interests are protected, which I am confident that the treaty does.

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

I know that the Minister is a strong ally and supporter of all our overseas territories, as are this Government. Will he take this opportunity to restate the Government’s unconditional commitment to the right of the people of the Falkland Islands and the peoples of Gibraltar to self-determine, and will he also confirm that we will continue to work closely with all our overseas territories?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank my hon. Friend for his important question. I can absolutely confirm that, not least through my own actions and those of my ministerial colleagues. The Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), has visited the Falklands in the last week, where he reiterated our absolute and robust commitment to their self-determination and sovereignty. I was in Gibraltar making the same point just a few weeks ago, and I was in three of our overseas territories last week making exactly the same commitments. This Government are committed to our overseas territories. I look forward to welcoming the leaders to the Joint Ministerial Council next week to say that to them in person.

[Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)]

Once again the Minister has come to the Chamber and said that the last Government started these negotiations. May I remind him that it was the last Government who ended the negotiations, because the Foreign Secretary did not agree with the advisory legal opinion that was given? This Foreign Secretary capitulated in two days.

The Minister has also said that he will not reveal the cost of the deal because the Government do not release information about costs related to overseas bases, but when, on 14 October, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty) asked the Minister for the Armed Forces a question about the total cost related to an overseas base in Kenya, the answer revealed the cost of what the Government were giving to that base. What is so different in this case?

[Stephen Doughty]

There is a very clear difference. That is a training area, not a major base, and I will not go into the details of the operation on that base. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman continues to ask for details relating to a base that is hugely important to our national security, when providing such information would put the security of the base at risk.

[Joe Powell (Kensington and Bayswater) (Lab)]

I know that the Minister is a strong friend of our overseas territories. Could he explain the importance of putting the US base on a legal footing, and give us a bit more detail about how that will enable us to work with our allies in countering any potential Chinese threat in the region?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend has raised an important point, which has been raised in good faith by Conservative Members and, indeed, by others. I am absolutely confident that when the detail of the treaty is provided—along with other technical details, at appropriate levels—it will make clear our commitments to robust security arrangements to deal with the challenge to which he has referred, and that will include preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands. Let me reiterate that we simply would not have countenanced a deal that would in any way put our national security or that of our allies at risk.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

Quite simply, do we have the unilateral right to extend—yes or no?

[Stephen Doughty]

I have made it very clear that we have the right to extend the treaty beyond the 99-year period, and the right hon. Gentleman will be able to scrutinise the detail of that in due course.

[Mr Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

It is difficult to fathom concerns raised by the Opposition about the consequences of governmental transition, as it was the former Conservative Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Braintree (Mr Cleverly), who said, when leading negotiations with Mauritius:

“Our primary objective is to ensure the continued effective operation of our defence facility on Diego Garcia.”—[Official Report, 13 June 2023; Vol. 734, c. 151.]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this Government have now delivered that, and should the Conservatives not be welcoming the agreement?

[Stephen Doughty]

Let me first thank my hon. Friend for his service for our country and its national security—and, indeed, thank all new Members who have served in our armed forces. I completely agree with his comments: we are indeed protecting our national security and putting matters on a secure footing

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Alexander Downer, a former Australian Foreign Minister, a former high commissioner to this country, a former United Nations special adviser on Cyprus and a good friend of this country, says that the surrender of the Chagos Islands is

“symptomatic of a country that no longer has geopolitical perspective.”

What is the Minister’s response to Mr Downer’s remarks, and does he agree with his comment that the last Labour Government were prepared to capitulate on the two Cypriot sovereign base areas, Dhekelia and Akrotiri? Who would have thought it? Is not the Chagos surrender just same old Labour—strong on post-colonial guilt and weak on safety, security and stability?

[Stephen Doughty]

I do not recognise those comments in the slightest, not least because we have repeatedly made clear our commitment to our overseas territories: to the Falklands, to Gibraltar, and to the sovereign base areas in Cyprus, which, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows, are protected under the 1960 treaty. I have made statements to that effect. We are clear about our support for those territories and their importance to us. This is not about handing something over; it is about Diego Garcia being on a secure footing, with our military base and our presence secure for the future.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

The expulsion of the Chagossian people from both Diego Garcia and the archipelago was an act of wanton brutality by the British forces at the time. The Chagos Islanders have fought a doughty battle for more than 40 years in courts all over the world, at the United Nations and in courts in this country, and they have demanded their right to return. All along, they have been determined to achieve that right, and they deserve our congratulations on that. Their right to return must be recognised, and international judicial systems have all shown that the Chagos Islands should clearly be part of Mauritius. Therefore, returning the islands to Mauritius is obviously the correct thing to do.

Can the Minister assure me that the Chagossians’ right to return to the archipelago, Peros Banhos and the other islands will be accompanied by the right to have a presence on, or to visit, Diego Garcia itself? It is perfectly possible that such things could be arranged. I ask him not to send us down the road of rebuilding the British empire, which is apparently what the Conservative party and Reform want to do. We do not live in an age of empire; we live in an age of the right of people to live their lives according to international law, and that is what is on offer.

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I have been very clear that the way the UK removed the Chagossians from the archipelago in the 1960s and ’70s was wrong. I know that there is agreement across the House on this issue, and we are committed to building a relationship with the community that is built on respect and on acknowledgement of the wrongs of the past.

The right hon. Gentleman asks a very technical question. He is absolutely right to say that Chagossians will have the right to visit all the islands. Given the sensitivity of the facilities on Diego Garcia, he will understand that some procedures are in place around that, but it will be possible to have visits. We hope to be able to announce the scheme for that in due course next year. Most importantly, the treaty allows for resettlement of the outer islands by Mauritius.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Further to the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) about incoming Administrations in Mauritius and the United States, our allies in the United States will clearly have serious concerns about what the proposals are. Will the Minister set out when the treaty is expected to be signed and, indeed, whether this House will get a say over whether that treaty should be signed before it is cast into law?

[Stephen Doughty]

As someone who has been in the House a long time, the hon. Gentleman will be aware of the procedures for dealing with treaties in this place. The treaty will be signed, it will come through this place, and it will have the appropriate scrutiny—it is only right that it does and that questions are asked. I am absolutely confident that when the full details of the treaty are provided to the incoming Administration in the United States, they will be absolutely confident that it meets US and UK national security interests and is in the mutual benefit of all parties involved.

[Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)]

If the incoming President Trump Administration confirm that they are against this dreadful deal, will the Government stop negotiations and apologise to this House, or will they try to force it upon our most important international strategic partner?

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman will surely know that the convention is that we deal with one Administration at a time. We have very positive and warm engagement with President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Vance’s incoming Administration. We look forward to discussing these matters with them, and we will engage with the United States in the usual way. We are absolutely clear that this treaty is in the UK-US national security interests. It meets the security concerns, and it puts the base on a secure footing into the next century.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

Can the Minister explain why the Government rushed into this deal so that it could be completed just before the Mauritian election? Is it proper for the British Government to give diplomatic kudos to a party in a foreign election?

[Stephen Doughty]

I completely reject those comments. Given that the previous Government spent over two years engaging in multiple rounds of negotiations in preparing the basis on which we got a deal done, the idea that we rushed into something is simply not true. It was not done in a rush. We are getting the job done, and keeping our national security and our interests secure.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister’s answers have not been what we have sought from him, so I will ask my question in a different way. Does he acknowledge the feelings of the Chagossians, who have peacefully protested about having their sovereignty stripped from them behind their backs? Does he recognise that the deal struck with China over Hong Kong has not been respected, and that our withdrawal has left the people of Hong Kong saying that they have been abandoned? That should serve as a warning. Will the Minister rethink the decision and respect the wishes of the Chagossians?

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I have a great deal of respect for him on these matters, and for his care for people and human rights around the world. I am very clear that the treaty and the deal respect the rights and interests of the Chagossians, and we have sought to put them at the heart of the arrangements. I have engaged with many Chagossians, who have a range of views, as we have heard today. It is absolutely clear to me that we need to put their interests at the heart of the deal, and we have done that. I am confident that when they look at the detail, they will see very positive outcomes for them and their communities, and we will provide that detail to the House in due course.

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Committee stage & Report stage
Wednesday 13th November 2024 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 3 stand part and the schedule.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Vickers. I welcome Members to the Committee and thank the Bill team and the Clerks for their work in preparing for these sittings. This Parliament is still relatively new, and I am sure that Members who have not been in one of these Committees before will find it as delightful as I did, when I first came to this place, to go line by line through Bills. This Bill is a slightly unusual example because it enjoys wide support across the House and has been debated a number of times in different forms.

At the outset, I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Witham, and welcome her to her new role. She and I have sparred and have also worked together on many occasions. It is a genuine pleasure to have her here, and I thank her for the Opposition’s support for the Bill. I think we can get through this relatively quickly.

This is an important Bill for the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross, and for their standing in this country. I hope that we can get through the technical scrutiny and put this on the statute book as soon as possible. Of course, we are coming off the back of a very successful Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting attended by the Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Lord Collins and others, alongside Ministers and leaders from across the Commonwealth, so it is right that we debate this Bill today. I welcome our guest, Mr Twigg—a former Member of this House—to the Gallery, and thank him for all his work with the CPA over many years.

Many of us have benefited from associating with and engaging with CPA delegations on important work. I attended a useful conference in Ghana a couple of years ago with parliamentarians from across Africa. I cannot tell the Committee how important it was for me to be able to engage with colleagues on a wide range of issues, including women’s rights, security, healthcare and climate change. The inter-parliamentary and inter-Commonwealth understanding brought by the CPA is crucial to all our work in this place and to the work of the Government.

The United Kingdom greatly values its long-standing programme partnership with the CPA and appreciates the important work that it is doing to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora, and allow the organisation to participate fully in areas where it is currently restricted, including signing up to international statements and communiqués.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary for her warm support for the Bill. I very much appreciate her agreement with the proposals in the clause. She asked what we can do to lean in and support the work at the CPA and, I assume, in the Commonwealth more generally. In fact, I have already been to an event hosted by Mr Speaker that encouraged Members to be heavily involved in the CPA, the Inter-Parliamentary Union and a number of other inter-parliamentary bodies. From my experience in this place, I know that they are incredibly important organisations that do brilliant work, and we as a Government certainly support Members of both Houses and, indeed, of the devolved Administrations taking part fully in that work. One of the first CPA conferences that I took part in was in the Senedd—the Welsh Parliament—in my constituency, which brought together representatives from not only across these islands, but across Europe and the Mediterranean. That was one of my first such experiences, and it took place in a devolved legislature in the UK.

This is really important work, and I know just how important all the legislatures across the Commonwealth are. Representatives of the provinces in Canada, the states in Australia and elsewhere often take part in these bodies, so the Government are fully supportive of this. As for our wider support to the Commonwealth, as one of the largest funders to the secretariat and its programmes—I think the figure is £13 million—we continue to support the organisation and its aims overall.

The shadow Foreign Secretary referenced the important work on governance, rights and other matters. Fundamentally, that comes back to the Commonwealth charter, which we are all signed up to. It is an important reference point for us to return to when we engage in some of the more challenging issues. Of course, we welcome the new secretary-general of the Commonwealth to her place and look forward to working with her.

I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Esher and Walton, for her support and for emphasising the important role that the CPA, and the Commonwealth as a whole, play in supporting good governance and strong democracies and societies across the world.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2

The International Committee of the Red Cross

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Stephen Doughty]

There were some references made to the ICRC in the previous debate, and we are now discussing that important part of the legislation.

As the shadow Foreign Secretary pointed out, the International Committee of the Red Cross is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives, and it plays a unique and important role, particularly in conflicts in some of the most harrowing circumstances. I, too, have engaged in work with the agency on many occasions in my career, both in this place and in the humanitarian sector prior to that.

The ICRC has unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts. It has unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations, and it is frequently the only international agency operating at scale in many conflicts. It is therefore critical to enable it to operate in the UK, in accordance with its unique international mandate, which means maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality, independence, and, importantly for the provisions in the Bill, its working method of confidentiality.

The clause confers on the ICRC the legal capacities of a body corporate.. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK are to conclude contracts, to acquire and dispose of property, and to institute and be party to legal proceedings. The clause also enables the provision of specific privileges and immunities in respect to the ICRC, which will need to be determined on the basis of the functional need of the organisation and will be specified through arrangements to be agreed on after the passage of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Monica Harding]

The Liberal Democrats support the immunities and privileges given to the ICRC under the Bill, which support its unique mandate of neutrality. Its work is needed more than ever on the frontline of conflict—there are more than 120 ongoing armed conflicts in the world—not least in its understanding and witness to the exercise of humanitarian law, which is sometimes applied permissively. I pay tribute to its work, and the Liberal Democrats support the clause.

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary and the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for their support for the clause and the important protections it provides for the ICRC. I agree with their comments about the important work that the ICRC does. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting its work. It is indispensable in many of the harrowing situations we are engaged in. The shadow Foreign Secretary and I have engaged with the ICRC on a number of occasions and seen its work at first hand.

The shadow Foreign Secretary is right about the importance of continuing to support the ICRC’s work financially. I will not go into details of individual settlements in this debate for obvious reasons, but I am very happy to ask my right hon. Friend the Minister for Development to write to her to set out the details of our financial relationship with the ICRC going forward. It is an important organisation to support, because we all care about humanitarianism and treating prisoners of war, hostages and others properly. It does important, unique work that has been established for a very long time in relation to the Geneva conventions.

The shadow Foreign Secretary rightly raised the issue of balance between good governance and not allowing wrongdoing in the humanitarian sector to remain covered up. That is exactly why we have struck a balance in the Bill between necessary confidentiality for the ICRC, and that not applying to those criminal proceedings. Obviously, we would continue to work with the ICRC, as we would with any other international humanitarian organisation, to ensure that it upholds the highest standards of internal governance and procedures. We are very supportive of whistleblowing and other schemes that allow those who suspect any wrongdoing, whether in these organisations or any other, to raise a concern and have it dealt with appropriately, not only concerning our own relations with that organisation, but also within the international system as a whole.

I thought it might be worth briefly setting out why it is important that we get these confidentiality provisions right because, to date, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has been successful in applying to UK courts for public interest immunity—for example, to prevent disclosure of ICRC communications or to consider ICRC evidence in closed material procedures. However, the reality, and the right hon. Member for Witham understand this, is that those decisions are at the discretion of the court in each individual case and so cannot fully address the ICRC’s concerns. The release of material into closed material procedures still breaches the ICRC’s standard working methods of confidentiality, so even though we would expect confidentiality in those proceedings, that is not guaranteed. That is why it is important to put this important provision on the statute book and to give the ICRC and the CPA that assurance.

The Bill and, indeed, its predecessors have been developed in close co-operation with the ICRC and the CPA, so it very much reflects their needs and, crucially, the need for them to continue to work with us in the most productive and outcome-based way. The Bill and clause therefore strike the right balance between the confidentiality they need to work with us, but without a blanket exemption that allows anything to go because, clearly, when it comes to criminal or other matters, those need to be dealt with in the appropriate way.

[Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

After receiving advice from my Whip, I should declare an interest: I am a former employee of the Red Cross and, while there is no financial connection between us today, I retain a strong bond of affection for the movement.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 5 stand part.

Government amendment 1.

Clause 6 stand part.

[Stephen Doughty]

We now come to some of the more technical aspects of the legislation, which I hope will not detain us too long. It is reassuring to hear a number of Members talking about their connections to the CPA and the Red Cross movement. That is fantastic, and we have a wealth of expertise, particularly from the development and humanitarian sectors, in this new Parliament, which will be to the benefit of debates on many matters.

It is a long-standing practice that privileges and immunities are conferred by Order in Council. Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made under clauses 1 and 2 is subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, as I set out on Second Reading in October. For the benefit of new Members in particular, statutory instruments that are subject to the draft affirmative procedure require the approval of both Houses of Parliament before they may have effect. The clause also provides further detail as to the scope and extent of the delegated legislation-making power under clauses 1 and 2. In particular, an Order in Council may make different provision for different cases and persons and may contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions.

In addition, the clause provides the enabling power for two important aspects that are fundamental to the operation and management of privileges and immunities in respect of an international organisation. First, the Order in Council may specify circumstances where privileges or immunities do not apply, whether because of an exception to those privileges or immunities or because they have been waived by the organisation. Secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State or the commissioners of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. That will facilitate the application to the organisations of existing administrative schemes and processes in respect of international organisations that are administered by, among others, the FCDO and HMRC.

Clause 5 explains that the term “the ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a). It also ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations to be applied in regard to all relevant legislation, primary and secondary, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, whenever made. That is important because the Bill gives both the CPA and the ICRC treatment comparable to an international organisation, and therefore the organisations need to be recognised in the same way across all relevant legislation.

Furthermore, that definition of statutory provision applies to the ICRC confidentiality provision in clause 2. It provides for protected ICRC information to be exempt from any disclosure requirement imposed by a statutory provision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) (Lab/Co-op)]

I apologise for my lateness. I, too, wanted to put on the record that I am the chairman of the UK branch of the CPA.

[Stephen Doughty]

On a point of order, Mr Vickers. I want to reiterate my thanks to the Bill team, the officials of my Department and all Members who have taken part today, and to the CPA and the ICRC for their work. I have many experiences of working with both organisations. I am glad we have been able to proceed in swift time. I hope that the Bill can now proceed, with your agreement, Mr Vickers, to its next stage.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.

Sanctions: Iran

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I beg to move,

That the Iran (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 (SI, 2024, No. 944), dated 11 September 2024, a copy of which was laid before this House on 12 September, be approved.

These regulations amend the Iran (Sanctions) Regulations 2023. The instrument was laid before Parliament on 12 September under powers contained in the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018, and the measures entered into force the following day. As the Minister responsible for sanctions, I would like to start by setting out the Government’s priorities in this area. Since coming into office, I have been clear that we must have the necessary powers and tools to implement and enforce our sanctions regimes effectively.

The proper implementation and enforcement of UK sanctions is critical to maximising their impact, and this Government are committed to improving the UK’s track record on sanctions enforcement. That is why, on 10 October, we launched the Office of Trade Sanctions Implementation—OTSI—which enhanced civil enforcement powers to maximise the impact of the UK’s trade sanctions. These powers include the ability to issue civil monetary penalties for sanctions breaches, and for OTSI to make details of breaches public. There are also new reporting requirements on sectors that are well positioned to find evidence of trade sanctions breaches. We have put in place similar civil enforcement powers for transport sanctions, aligning the enforcement of trade and transport sanctions with our approach to financial sanctions.

I have also brought together ministerial colleagues on sanctions enforcement, and colleagues in the Treasury, the Home Office, the Department for Business and Trade, the Department for Transport and the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero are working towards a shared vision of how to enhance it. That will include ways in which we can further support UK overseas territories and Crown dependencies with their sanctions enforcement. We plan to be transparent on what we are doing, and I look forward to updating Parliament on enforcement actions in due course.

The Government have deployed sanctions in innovative and impactful ways, including in the sanctions package we are putting forward today. We have taken swift and decisive action to increase pressure on Russia’s war machine, spearheading a call to action at the European Political Community in July to tackle Russia’s shadow fleet. We have sanctioned 43 oil tankers that were transporting Russian oil, as well as nine liquefied natural gas vessels involved in shipping Russian LNG, including from Russia’s flagship Arctic LNG 2 project, to target the Kremlin’s energy revenues.

We have also enhanced our response to the threat from the Iranian regime, and I will now turn to the details of the instrument before us. It contains measures to deter the Government of Iran from causing regional and international instability, by disrupting its unmanned aerial vehicle and missile industries and its access to items critical for military development. I hope the House will support these important measures today.

The Iranian regime’s development and proliferation of large volumes of advanced conventional weapons, including UAVs and missiles, continues to destabilise the middle east and also prolongs Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine. Iran’s use of an unprecedented number of UAVs and missiles during its attack on Israel on 13 April demonstrated how Iranian weapons development and proliferation is fuelling conflict and escalation in the middle east.

The Iranian regime also used hundreds of these arms in its attack against Israel on 1 October, which we condemn in the strongest terms. That attack once more endangered the lives of innocent civilians and escalated an already incredibly dangerous situation, and that cannot be tolerated. In response to Iran’s 1 October attack on Israel, the UK has designated nine individuals and entities involved in facilitating Iran’s destabilising activity. That includes senior military figures and the Iranian Space Agency, which develops technologies that have applications in ballistic missile development.

We are deeply concerned about the prospect of further escalation, and all efforts must now be concentrated on breaking the cycle of violence. At this moment, when tensions are at their peak, calm heads must prevail and all sides must take immediate steps to de-escalate. A regional war is, of course, in no one’s interest. However, this is the latest incident in the long history of Iran destabilising the region, including through its political, financial and military support for its proxies and partners, such as Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and its aligned militia groups in Iraq and Syria. We have been clear and consistent that Iran must cease this support.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. Does he accept that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a key component of the destabilisation sponsored by the Iranian regime? Will he update the House on the Government’s thinking on proscribing that organisation? I think he would find many allies across the House who would be keen to see that happen.

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. We of course recognise the huge threat that the IRGC poses, and we will take the necessary measures to counter it at home and around the world. He will understand that the Government keep the list of proscribed terrorist organisations under careful review, and we do not, of course, comment in the House on whether an organisation may be under consideration.

As I said, Iran is now one of Russia’s top military backers and has supplied it with hundreds of UAVs since 2022, including different models of drones. Russia has used those to target Ukraine’s critical infrastructure and to kill innocent civilians, prolonging the suffering of the Ukrainian people. In September, Iran supplied Russia with hundreds of close-range ballistic missiles. That is a further escalation of Iran’s military support for Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine and will further enable Russia’s invasion. In return, Iran is receiving Russian military and technological support, enabling it to further develop its military capabilities and enhancing the risk it poses to the region and beyond.

The legislation before us expands the UK’s trade sanctions against Iran, with the aim of disrupting its UAV and missile industry and its access to items critical to military development. It includes sanctions in relation to the items on the Russia common high priority list. The list, which was jointly agreed by the UK, the EU, the US and Japan in the context of Russia’s war against Ukraine, identifies items that Russia is using in its weapons systems, ranging from semiconductors to machine tools. Those items are also significant in Iran’s production of advanced conventional weapons. As the House will know, there have been many public reports about Iran’s supply of weapons to Russia. Through the instrument, we are therefore prohibiting the export, supply, delivery and making available of those items to Iran.

We are also prohibiting the provision of ancillary services associated with the goods, such as brokering services, technical assistance, financial services and funds. All the items prohibited by our partners in the EU in May are also prohibited by the instrument. In addition, prohibitions will be applied to some items identified by the Ministry of Defence as significant to Iran’s UAV and missile industries.

We have also taken the opportunity to simplify some of the existing trade sanctions on Iran so that businesses are better able to implement them. These trade restrictions complement our existing export controls and sanctions, ensuring that no UK business or person, wherever they are in the world, can facilitate the export, transfer, supply, delivery and making available of these items to Iran without prior authorisation.

I hope that the House will support these measures. I commend them to the House.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions. They have made some important points, and I thank them for their wholehearted support for the regulations. It is important that we maintain unity in the House on these measures to tackle these regimes, whether it be Russia or Iran. As I said earlier, these measures represent a step forward in our capability to restrict Iran’s proliferation of advanced conventional weapons, which continue to fuel the conflict we have been discussing in the middle east and to support Russia in its illegal war in Ukraine. We are firmly committed to using sanctions to hold the Iranian regime to account for its malign activities in the UK and elsewhere.

I should point out that we do not just have these regulations. Continuing on from measures under the previous Administration, on 2 September we sanctioned four IRGC Quds Force targets who have a role supporting Iranian proxy actions in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. We announced sanctions against 15 Iranian and Russian targets on 10 September, cancelled our bilateral air service arrangements with Iran Air and targeted those who were involved in a series of actions.

We have consistently raised our concerns directly with the Iranian regime and, indeed, with a range of partners. On 14 October we designated nine individuals and entities involved in facilitating Iran’s destabilising activity. That included senior military and IRGC figures and entities involved in Iran’s ballistic missile programme. Those are just some of the examples since this Government came in, but they are among more than 460 Iranian individuals and entities that have been sanctioned due to Iran’s malign activities in the region and internationally. That includes 94 human rights-specific sanctions on individuals and entities, to respond to many of the significant and rightful concerns raised by colleagues today.

[Alicia Kearns]

It is clear from the tenor of the House—I have to say as a woman that I find it incredibly moving to hear my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Dr Mullan) and the hon. Member for Ceredigion Preseli (Ben Lake) speaking so strongly for the women who continue to be raped and blinded by the Iranian regime—that the House is saying that we want to see more effort on this. I would be grateful if the Minister committed to taking that away. I am not asking for him to predetermine what he will do on sanctions, but it is incredibly powerful to hear so many men speaking up for Iranian women, and they need to hear our voices or they will lose hope.

[Stephen Doughty]

I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Lady’s comments. As she knows, we do not comment on future designations, but I have certainly heard the strong voice across the House today, which reflects the horrific reality for women and girls—ordinary Iranian civilians—under that repressive regime. I thank her overall for her support. She rightly highlighted a series of Iran’s malign actions. I agree with her that those promoting proscribed organisations in the UK should face the full force of the law. That is for our law enforcement agencies, but the Prime Minister and others have made that absolutely clear.

The hon. Lady raised concerns in relation to the foreign influence registration scheme. I assure her that we remain absolutely committed to that. We will further strengthen our national security while maintaining the UK as an international hub for business. Announcements on the tiers will be made at a later stage, but we are absolutely committed to it—it is not going anywhere. We are committed to moving forward with that agenda and I have been discussing it with colleagues across government.

The hon. Lady and others mentioned the JCPOA. Let me be clear: snapback remains an option. We remain in close contact with E3 and other partners, and I will say a little more on that in a moment. I refer her to my previous comments on the IRGC as a whole. She and other hon. Members asked me about the internationalisation of sanctions. Absolutely, this is about working with partners. Are we looking at how we can increase penalties and enforcement? Absolutely, whether that be OTSI or others. Obviously, I cannot comment on future investigations and designations.

The hon. Lady asked about wider UK military support to Ukraine. I point to the very important announcement yesterday, on top of existing commitments. The extraordinary revenue acceleration will deliver an additional £2.26 billion to Ukraine for crucial needs, working with our partners across the G7. I will come on to Lebanon in a moment, but do I condemn all the proxies that Iran is supporting? Absolutely. We have been very clear about that.

Other right hon. and hon. Members made important points. My hon. Friend the Member for Barking (Nesil Caliskan) and the Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller), rightly referred to issues around human rights and repressive actions within Iran itself. He asked specifically about one case. I know he received a specific answer from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Hamish Falconer) on that yesterday in FCDO questions. He asked about the wider issues around illicit finance and kleptocracy. These are significant priorities for the Foreign Secretary and me. I assure him and the House that we are working at pace on these issues and will be announcing further measures in due course. He asked about public registers of beneficial ownership and ensuring transparency. I am in close contact with our overseas territories regarding these issues and have made it clear that we expect to see progress at pace. I will make that clear to leaders before the joint ministerial council in a few weeks’ time. My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (David Pinto-Duschinsky) rightly referred to the heinous executions and internal repression, although, as I said, I will not comment on further designations.

I thank the right hon. Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) for his kind remarks about the cross-party support we have had for Ukraine. He rightly raised issues relating to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. He will have heard in recent days the Foreign Secretary, with his counterpart in the Republic of Korea, state our absolute condemnation regarding DPRK’s involvement in Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine. I will certainly take a look at The Economist article he mentioned. We will seek to do everything we can to close down loopholes and ensure the effectiveness of our regime.

The hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Dr Mullan) made some very powerful points, in particular highlighting the impact on women and girls, and minority groups—that was also touched on by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon)—within Iran. The Government remain absolutely committed to freedom of religion or belief, and targeting religious minorities or repressive actions against them cannot be tolerated.

The hon. Member for Ceredigion Preseli (Ben Lake) also highlighted the internal oppression. The hon. Member for Honiton and Sidmouth (Richard Foord) ranged over a whole series of issues, but spoke in particular about third-country circumvention. Addressing this issue is a key priority for the Government. It is one that forms a regular part of my conversations with third countries identified. I have had numerous such conversations in recent weeks and we will, with our allies, continue to do so. We must close down all loopholes and all routes, whether in Russia or Iran, to ensure our sanctions regimes are effective.

Before concluding, let me briefly touch on a couple of the specific themes that came out of the debate. Let me be clear: Iran’s actions in relation to Israel are completely unacceptable. The Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have been absolutely clear that we stand with Israel and recognise its right to self-defence in the face of Iranian aggression. We absolutely condemn in the strongest terms its attack against Israel. We designated individuals specifically in response to the attack on Israel, including senior military figures and entities involved in Iran’s ballistic missile programme.

I referred to the JCPOA, but let me be clear that Iran’s nuclear escalation since 2019 has gone far beyond JCPOA limits and is undermining the deal. Alongside our E3 partners, we will use all diplomatic options available to ensure that Iran never develops a nuclear weapon, including triggering the snapback of all UN sanctions lifted under the JCPOA if necessary. I mentioned the actions that we have taken against regional proxies, but let me remind the House that the UK proscribes the entirety of Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, and has an asset freeze in place against the entire organisation. We assess Hamas in their entirety to be concerned with terrorism, and therefore proscribe the organisation in full. The Houthis are sanctioned in their entirety by the UK and are subject to a targeted arms embargo.

On human rights, as I said, there are 94 human rights sanctions on Iranian individuals and entities. The horrifically high rate of executions is a deliberate attempt to instil fear and stifle dissent in Iran. As a Government we remain opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances, as a matter of principle. The situation for women and girls is truly horrific. We condemn Iran’s appalling treatment of women and girls, including through its repressive policies. We will work with international partners to engage with the findings of the UN special rapporteur on Iranian human rights.

Media freedoms were also mentioned; as a member of the Media Freedom Coalition, we are determined to ensure that journalists are able to do their jobs without fear of retribution. Given the situation for detainees and the historical cases involving Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and others, we continue to believe that British nationals and British-Iranian dual nationals are at significant risk of detention in Iran. British nationals are advised not to travel to Iran, but we do not and never will accept our nationals being used as diplomatic leverage.

[Jim Shannon]

Again, I apologise for not being here earlier to ask the Minister a question directly. The IRGC is quite clearly the leader of Iran’s private army. It is involved in some of the worst repression, murders and despicable acts across all of Iran. Is it not time to collate all this information and put it together to hold those people accountable for what they are doing, and for human rights abuses in Iran?

[Stephen Doughty]

I made clear our position on the IRGC earlier, but as I pointed out, we have sanctioned directly a number of individuals involved with that organisation. We recognise the threat that it poses and will take the necessary measures to counter it at home and around the world, but obviously we do not comment on future designations.

The safety and security of the United Kingdom from Iran’s malign actions has been raised on a number of occasions. It was rightly pointed out that the UK has identified at least 15 threats towards UK-based individuals. Our police, intelligence and security agencies have been confronting these threats for many years, but their seriousness has increased in recent months. Let me be clear: we will always stand up to threats from foreign nations, and we will continue to work closely with our international partners to identify, deter, and respond to those threats.

Lastly, on Lebanon, we have been very clear that a political solution consistent with resolution 1701 is the only way to restore its sovereignty, territorial integrity and stability. We have been calling for an immediate ceasefire between Lebanese Hezbollah and Israel, and a political plan that will enable civilians on both sides to return to their homes. Nobody wants further escalation, and we will continue to work with partners across the region on that.

These new regulations will increase the pressure on Iran’s defence industry. They will disrupt Iran’s production of UAVs and missiles that could be supplied to proxies in the middle east or Russia. We will continue to work with likeminded partners. The regulations send a clear message to the Government of Iran and those seeking to harm the UK’s security and that of our partners: we will not stand idle in the face of this aggression. I commend the regulations to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Iran (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 (SI, 2024, No. 944), dated 11 September 2024, a copy of which was laid before this House on 12 September, be approved.

Draft European Forest Institute (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 General Committees

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft European Forest Institute (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Twigg, and to move my first statutory instrument as a Minister. I am pleased to be here with the shadow Minister and others. This order, which I hope is uncontroversial in nature, was laid in draft before the House on 15 May 2024 during the previous Administration in accordance with the International Organisations Act 1968. It is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made once it is approved by both Houses.

The main legal recourse to grant privileges and immunities to international organisations with a presence in the United Kingdom, as discussed in the main Chamber yesterday, is the International Organisations Act 1968, which specifies the maximum privileges and immunities that may be accorded in the UK to various categories of international organisations. The provisions of the Act are applied to the different organisations by means of an Order in Council.

This order will confer on the European Forest Institute a bespoke set of privileges and immunities to enable the organisation to function and operate effectively in the UK. It does not confer legal capacity, as this was conferred on the EFI in the European Forest Institute (Legal Capacities) Order 2005. The order will contribute to the fostering of closer collaboration between the EFI, its members and the UK Government and will support the establishment of a EFI UK office. I think there is unity in the House on this measure, as it was started under the previous Government. We intend to continue with it to allow international collaboration on forests, which are an important issue for the protection of nature, tackling climate change and our support of biodiversity globally.

In granting these privileges and immunities, we will therefore be able to host an expansion of EFI’s International Partnerships Facility in the UK through the opening of a UK office. The International Partnerships Facility is a global centre of knowledge and expertise that supports policy and governance reforms to improve forest governance and safeguard the world’s forests.

The EFI would host a small permanent London team and draw internationally renowned expertise into the UK. With London a major hub for private sector climate finance, there are opportunities to bring international forest and finance experts together to foster new financial initiatives aimed at protecting the world’s forests and tackling climate change and nature loss, which are major priorities for me, the Foreign Secretary and the whole of the new Government.

This order affords the director, head of office and EFI staff members a bespoke set of privileges and immunities that diplomatic agents of diplomatic missions established in the UK would be entitled to, including an exemption from suit and legal process. However, as was mentioned yesterday, no immunity is conferred in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle. That is now a standard clause in statutory instruments and treaties providing for privileges and immunities.

The Government consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has toward the EFI. The privileges and immunities conferred will enable its staff to operate effectively within the UK and are in scope of the International Organisations Act and UK precedents for similar organisations. The EFI’s board members and representatives of members are subject to “official act immunities”. Those immunities cover inviolability of official papers and documents, customs provisions and immunity from suit and legal process within the scope of official activities. They also cover the inviolability of the EFI premises and archives, taxes and customs rates and an immunity waiver.

In conclusion, the support for the EFI’s establishment of an office in the UK is a unique opportunity to reinforce the UK’s leadership on international forests and climate policy. The UK has been involved with the EFI for over 10 years, including through the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office’s flagship forest governance, markets and climate programme. Together with the EFI we have supported national policy processes on land-use governance in 17 countries across the three tropical forest basins. The EFI is key to that work and the UK remains committed to the organisation. I hope this can be seen as just an important procedural and administrative matter to enable that work to continue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I am grateful for the support of the shadow Minister and, I hope, of the whole Committee. I hope that she will also support the Iran sanctions regulations later this afternoon. I am sure we will have a slightly longer debate on those important issues, but I am glad for the support and the common ground on this draft order, which is absolutely crucial to issues of nature, biodiversity loss and tackling the climate change emergency. It comes at an appropriate time, as we are between the biodiversity conference of the parties and the nature COP, and the COP in Baku on climate change. Showing our support for this important organisation is key.

The shadow Minister asked about how this will sit within our wider plans. I can tell her that the EFI has been involved directly with supporting the delivery of the FCDO’s flagship forest governance programme, which we intend to continue. That programme aims at reducing the illegal use of forest resources and ensuring benefits for the poorest people who depend on forests for their livelihoods. With the support of that programme and other development donors, the EFI has established the expertise and stakeholder network on forest governance, deforestation and climate change. That provides guidance to more than 20 countries.

I mentioned the EFI’s International Partnerships Facility. That will be absolutely key in making this work going forward, contributing to our wider work as we modernise our development programme, focus on the sustainable development goals, and tackle issues including the expansion of agricultural crops, illegal logging, land use conflicts, and others that the shadow Minister will know are unfortunately driving the challenges we find in forest environments. I would also point out that the EFI can work very closely with our temperate forest measures, which are already driven forward by my colleagues in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. There we could have the international and the domestic coming together for nature and climate change. I hope the Committee will recognise the importance of that.

The EFI is a valuable partner for the UK in delivering our international ambitions on biodiversity loss and sustainable development. A London office that functions fully will serve as a valuable catalyst for bringing together international expertise, and bringing that to bear on forest governance globally. I hope that I have answered the shadow Minister’s questions and given the Committee the assurance it needs.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)]

1. If he will have discussions with his European counterparts on a potential youth mobility agreement.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

The Foreign Secretary cannot be at today’s Question Time because he is attending the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Samoa with His Majesty the King and the Prime Minister. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and Friern Barnet (Catherine West) is also travelling, in Vietnam.

We will not give a running commentary on our discussions with the European Union. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and others have already made a clear statement on the matter. We will continue to look at EU proposals on a range of issues, but we will not return to freedom of movement. However, we are committed to finding constructive ways of working together and delivering for the British people.

[Ian Roome]

Does the Minister agree that if Iceland and Monaco can be approved countries under the reciprocal UK mobility scheme, our closest neighbours, such as Ireland and France, should be too? Many schools in my constituency would like a youth mobility agreement because it would be beneficial to our youth.

[Stephen Doughty]

I was in Iceland the other day. Iceland is, of course, a member of the European economic area and we are not, and we do not seek to rejoin the single market, the customs union or the EU, or to return to freedom of movement. However, the Prime Minister and the President of the European Commission met in Brussels on 2 October and agreed to strengthen the relationship between the EU and the UK and put it on a more solid and stable footing. The Foreign Secretary attended the Foreign Affairs Council in Luxembourg on 14 October. Both those meetings mark a significant moment in our reset with Europe.

[Ms Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is welcome to hear the Minister talk about looking at what the EU might suggest. It is important to be clear that the youth mobility scheme is not freedom of movement. We already have schemes with Uruguay, Japan, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, and it is clear that strict conditions apply to when somebody can come here. Will the Minister update us on when he next expects to discuss the subject with the EU?

[Stephen Doughty]

Of course, we discuss a range of issues with our partners and friends in the EU. As I said earlier, I will not give a running commentary on those discussions. We have been clear that we will not return to freedom of movement or rejoin the EU.

[Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)]

2. What steps he is taking to help support Ukraine.

[Luke Akehurst (North Durham) (Lab)]

21. What steps he is taking to help support Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I can confirm that, alongside our G7 allies, UK support for Ukraine is iron clad. We have already made it clear that we will provide £3 billion a year of military support for Ukraine for as long as that is needed. We are investing in Ukraine’s defence industrial base and we are ratcheting up the pressure on Putin’s war machine and on third-country supplies. I am delighted that the Chancellor has today announced that we will provide £2.26 billion in additional support to Ukraine as part of the G7 extraordinary revenue acceleration loans to Ukraine scheme.

[Alex Baker]

Ukraine is facing a difficult winter. What steps are the Government taking to help ensure that Ukraine is in the best possible position to deal with the challenges that that will bring?

[Stephen Doughty]

I agree with my hon. Friend: Putin’s shocking and barbarous attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure have increased the vulnerability of millions of Ukrainians before this winter. That is why I have announced and signed off £20 million in additional support for Ukraine’s energy system. We are working with partners across Europe and in the G7 to support Ukrainians in this area.

[Luke Akehurst]

Does my hon. Friend agree that Ukraine’s rightful place is with other European democracies in the NATO alliance?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend will know that the NATO Secretary-General was in London recently alongside President Zelensky, where the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary welcomed them. Our allies have made it clear that Ukraine’s future is in NATO and, indeed, in Washington they confirmed that Ukraine is on an irreversible path to NATO membership. We will play a leading role in supporting Ukraine’s pathway to membership.

[Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)]

Given that answer, does the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office consider that the reported presence of the United Nations Secretary-General at Putin’s summit in Russia will be helpful or unhelpful to Ukraine? If the latter, what is the Minister doing about it?

[Stephen Doughty]

While I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, obviously the meetings that the United Nations Secretary-General chooses to attend are a matter for him, not for the Government. We continue to work with a wide range of allies to support Ukraine across the G7, as we have in relation to today’s announcement, and with our partners in Europe.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

Does the Minister share my concern about worrying reports of North Korean troops fighting for Russia in Ukraine? What message would he give from the Dispatch Box to Pyongyang?

[Stephen Doughty]

I absolutely share the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns. The Foreign Secretary has been clear that we condemn in the strongest terms the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s continued unlawful arms transfers, and the reported deployments of its troops to the Russian Federation to support the unlawful war of aggression in Ukraine. That is not only in violation of multiple United Nations Security Council resolutions, but it will also prolong the suffering of the Ukrainian people and threatens global security, so we condemn it in absolute terms.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Stamford) (Con)]

To move us beyond the condemnation, in the last week, troops from North Korea have arrived in Russia and are training in Russian fatigues, based on videos that we have seen. In addition, we know that Russia has procured multiple weapons from North Korea to aid the murder of Ukrainians. Putin has seized the escalation ladder, so will the Minister now declare North Korea a combatant in the renewed illegal invasion of Ukraine, démarche the North Korean chargé and confirm what unilateral and multilateral action we will be taking in response?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the shadow Minister for her points. We absolutely condemn what North Korea is reported to have been doing. She will have seen in our response to the Iranian transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia that we acted strongly, swiftly and firmly. We are closely monitoring what Russia is providing to the DPRK in return for its provision of arms and military personnel. We are deeply concerned about the potential for further transfers, including of ballistic missile-related technology. That would obviously jeopardise peace and stability not only in Ukraine, but across the world, and we condemn it absolutely.

[Nigel Farage (Clacton) (Reform)]

3. What the planned timetable is for implementing the agreement with Mauritius on the sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

The Government inherited a situation where the long-term secure operation of the Diego Garcia military base was under threat. The agreement that we have reached secures the future of the base and strengthens our role in safeguarding global security. The agreement is subject to the finalisation of a treaty that the Government intend to complete in the coming months. Parliament will have the opportunity to scrutinise the treaty in the usual manner, following its signature.

[Nigel Farage]

Since the mistaken opening of negotiations by the last Government on the sovereignty of the Chagos islands, it turns out that the British high commissioner and others appear to have been bugged by the Government of Mauritius. If the police investigation proves that to be true and we can see that Mauritius—their Government at least—are bad actors, is the 99-year lease on Diego Garcia even worth the paper that it is written on?

[Stephen Doughty]

We note the reports with significant concern, but the hon. Gentleman will understand that I am not going to comment on an ongoing police investigation. As I pointed out yesterday, the reports relate to historical conversations, not during the current round of negotiations. We are confident that we have achieved a treaty that meets our national security objectives, closes off a migration route and fundamentally respects the interests of the Chagossian people.

[Gregory Stafford]

How can the Minister continue to defend the ceding of the Chagos islands to Mauritius when China is rapidly expanding its influence in the Indo-Pacific? With no binding agreement against Chinese military involvement in the future, have the Government recklessly compromised British and allied security just to appease vested interests?

[Stephen Doughty]

I completely reject what the hon. Gentleman suggests about Mauritius somehow being in hock to China or the agreement somehow opening up a place for China. Let me be clear: Mauritius is one of only two African countries that have not signed up to the belt and road initiative. There is absolutely no way that we, or the United States, would have signed off a treaty across the national security apparatus that compromised any of our security interests or those of our allies. The unequivocal support from the United States—the President, the Secretary of State, the Defence Secretary and across the establishment—makes it clear that this is the right deal for our security and that of our allies.

[Deirdre Costigan (Ealing Southall) (Lab)]

4. What steps he is taking to help improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

--- Later in debate ---

[Zöe Franklin (Guildford) (LD)]

8. What support his Department provides to UK artists touring in the EU.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. Culture, Media and Sport Ministers are responsible for Government policy on touring artists, with support from colleagues across Government. The Government provide support for artists via the music export growth scheme, funded by the Department for Business and Trade and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and the international showcase fund, funded by the DBT. We are engaging with the EU and member states to explore how best to improve arrangements for touring in Europe without a return to free movement.

[Zöe Franklin]

Young emerging artists, the very future of our multibillion-pound music industry, are the worst impacted by the bureaucracy we now have. Will the Minister reconsider negotiating a European-wide exemption from visas, work permits and travelling restrictions to set UK artists free from frustrating red tape?

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Lady raises very important issues, and we recognise the challenges faced by the sector that she sets out. We are committed to helping our touring artists without seeking a return to freedom of movement. I will work closely with my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office, as well as with Culture, Media and Sport Ministers and other colleagues, on these issues. We are committed to seeking allowances for cabotage, carnets, and customs rules for music, performing arts and culture touring, but at this stage it is too early to discuss that in greater detail.

[Tim Roca (Macclesfield) (Lab)]

9. What recent progress he has made on resetting relationships with his EU counterparts.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. My right hon. and learned Friend the Prime Minister met the President of the European Commission on 2 October, and agreed to strengthen the relationship between the EU and the UK and to hold regular UK-EU summits. The Foreign Secretary attended the EU Foreign Affairs Council on 14 October in Luxembourg, and he and the High Representative agreed to advance discussions towards a new UK-EU security partnership. I have had many meetings bilaterally, and indeed as part of processes alongside EU colleagues, on issues from Moldova to the western Balkans in recent weeks.

[Tim Roca]

I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s attendance at the EU Foreign Affairs Council. Will the Minister confirm if this will be part of a more regular, structured engagement with our European colleagues?

[Stephen Doughty]

I can absolutely confirm that that is the case. We are committed to resetting our relationship and to delivering outcomes in practice. As I mentioned, I attended the Moldova partnership platform in Chisinău last month. It is particularly important that we work alongside our EU partners when it comes to the attacks on Moldova’s democratic future by Putin’s Russia. We also had important discussions about the western Balkans in Berlin last week. I was there with the President of the European Commission and Chancellor Scholz, and it is absolutely important that we work together on these critical challenges.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

While we hope that it never happens, if a future American President wished to withdraw support from Ukraine, will the Government assure us that that would be a prominent item on the agenda in their conversations with EU leaders?

[Stephen Doughty]

Obviously, decisions in America are for the American people, but the special relationship endures, regardless of the Administration or who is in the White House, and it is deep and enduring, as the right hon. Gentleman knows well from his important former roles. We absolutely need to co-operate with our EU partners on support for Ukraine, and that is why today it is so fantastic to hear the news that we have agreed, as promised, with the G7 and with our European and indeed our American partners, the extraordinary revenue acceleration scheme that will deliver new money to Ukraine now.

[Bobby Dean (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

10. What recent assessment he has made of the level of threat to UK democracy posed by the Chinese Communist party.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

As a matter of long-standing policy, which the hon. Gentleman will understand, the Government do not comment on the detail of national security matters, but let me be clear: any attempt by any foreign power to threaten or undermine the UK’s democracy will not be tolerated. The National Security Act 2023 brings together vital new measures to protect our national security, which we are committed to as a new Government. I regularly meet my ministerial colleagues, including the Minister for Security, to discuss those matters.

[Bobby Dean]

Thousands of Hongkongers have made my local community their home under the British national overseas visa scheme, but too many of them still face the threat of surveillance, harassment, and intimidation by the Chinese state. Will the Government confirm that they have raised the issue of transnational repression in conversations with the Chinese Government, and made clear that it is a totally unacceptable interference in British democracy?

[Stephen Doughty]

The Government will take a consistent long-term and strategic approach to our relations with China, rooted in the UK and global interests, and the Government are deeply committed to supporting all members of the Hong Kong community who have relocated to the UK. I reiterate that any attempts by foreign Governments to coerce, intimidate or harm their critics overseas are unacceptable, and regardless of nationality, freedom of speech and other fundamental rights of all people in the UK are protected under our domestic law.

[Blair McDougall (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

My constituency is also home to a new and growing population of Hongkongers who, although they are now in a free country, live in fear of the repression that the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) described. That is not least because of the reported presence until recently of a secret police station in Glasgow, run by the Chinese Communist party. Will the Minister join me in sending a clear signal to the Chinese state: “hands off Hong Kong Scots”?

[Stephen Doughty]

I have made clear our support to the Hong Kong community in the UK, and we have made clear to Chinese authorities that the existence of undeclared sites in the UK is unacceptable, and their operation must cease. We have been told that they have now closed. The Foreign Secretary was in China on 18 and 19 October, where he met his counterpart Foreign Minister Wang Yi and other senior Chinese figures, and he raised human rights, including issues related to Hong Kong.

[Mr Speaker]

I call shadow Minister Alicia Kearns.

[Stephen Doughty]

We call on the Hong Kong authorities to end their politically motivated prosecution and immediately release British national Jimmy Lai. His case remains a high priority for His Majesty’s Government, and UK diplomats attend his court hearing in Hong Kong. The Foreign Secretary recently raised the case with Wang Yi during his visit to Beijing on 18 October. On 24 July the Foreign Secretary raised the case of Jagtar Singh Johal with the Indian External Affairs Minister, and I am happy to write to the hon. Lady further about those matters. She can be assured that we take these cases incredibly seriously.

[Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)]

11. What diplomatic steps he is taking to help secure a ceasefire in Lebanon.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Naish (Rushcliffe) (Lab)]

T9. I have lived and worked in the western Balkans, where Governments continue to increase efforts to tackle human trafficking, exploitation and coercion. What steps are proactively being taken with Albania and other western Balkan and mediterranean countries to tackle human trafficking at source?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

The Government are committed to working more closely with partners across Europe, including Albania and partners across the western Balkans, to tackle people trafficking and the gangs profiting from it. That has been a regular part of my bilateral discussions. In July, we announced steps to reinforce our co-operation with Europol and committed £4 million towards the Rome process—an Italian Government project to tackle the root causes of irregular migration.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

What discussions have Ministers had with their Israeli counterparts about the application of distinction and proportionality in international humanitarian law?

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I put on the record my previous engagements with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, on many excellent and informative trips that contributed to our relationships across the Commonwealth, and my past engagement with the International Committee of the Red Cross.

I am delighted to see the Bill back in the House; I hope that there will be wholehearted unity today to ensure that it makes it to Royal Assent. I think this is its fourth iteration. The last time it was debated here was as a private Member’s Bill in the last Session, but sadly it ran out of time before the Dissolution of Parliament for the general election. I pay tribute to the former Member for Basingstoke for her tireless work in introducing that Bill and pushing it through, and to many hon. Members, some of whom I see here today, for their past work with the CPA and the ICRC.

It is critical that both the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross be given their correct status in UK legislation to conduct their work and deliver their objectives while operating in the UK. This will help to guarantee that the CPA remains headquartered in the UK and will ensure that the UK can guarantee the ICRC that the confidential information that it shares as a matter of course with the UK Government is secure and protected.

The UK is deeply committed to the Commonwealth and believes that the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which the Foreign Secretary is attending in Samoa, will be an important opportunity to mobilise action on shared interests, including upholding shared Commonwealth values. Those values are embodied by the CPA’s important work to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. I think back to my own many engagements with the CPA in which I have seen that work at first hand, both when delegations have visited and when I have been part of delegations. The UK values its partnership with the CPA and is proud to support the work of the CPA and its regional branch CPA UK. That includes developing benchmarks and indicators of parliamentary democracy and addressing modern slavery in supply chains and issues such as gender-based violence with Parliaments and parliamentarians across the Commonwealth.

The ICRC is an essential partner in achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives. It has a unique mandate from states to uphold the Geneva conventions and works globally to promote international humanitarian law. Its impartiality, neutrality and independence allow it to engage and negotiate with all parties to a conflict and to provide protection and humanitarian assistance to vulnerable populations, often in contexts in which other agencies are unable to operate. I have witnessed its important work, in opposition and in my past career in the humanitarian sector.

Clauses 1 and 2 will therefore provide for both organisations to be treated in a manner comparable to an international organisation, with the associated privileges and immunities. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora. It will allow the organisation to participate fully in areas in which it is currently restricted, including signing up to joint international statements and communiqués. That is vital to ensure that the CPA can continue its work to promote democracy and good governance across the Commonwealth. The CPA is currently registered with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and is not an international intergovernmental organisation; it therefore has its own unique constitutional arrangements that reflect its specific international mandate.

Clause 2 is critical to enable the ICRC to operate in the UK in accordance with its international mandate, maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence and its working methods of confidentiality. The ICRC is not an inter-governmental organisation either; it has its own unique and historical international humanitarian mandate to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Nobody doubts the good work of the CPA or the ICRC—we have all seen it as parliamentarians—but does the Minister understand that many of us are a little wary about conferring privileges and immunities by Order in Council after the Bill is passed, since this House is not, in general, in the habit of granting privileges and immunities without scrutiny?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman can be assured that these are the appropriate measures. We have determined this way in line with previous discussions on the previous iteration of the Bill. This is the best way to achieve the aims of the Bill in a timely fashion, so that the provisions are put in place for the CPA and the ICRC. I am very happy to write to him further on this matter. The Bill will face scrutiny in Committee, where we will be able to discuss these matters in greater detail.

The provisions in clauses 1 and 2 will ensure that the CPA and the ICRC can be accorded comparable treatment to an international organisation, even when the definition of international organisation in existing legislation is limited to intergovernmental organisations. For the CPA, this treatment will be limited to its core international organs, such as the secretariat. It is not intended that any privileges, immunities or other facilities be extended to any of the national or sub-national branches, so this is a limited provision.

The arrangements for both organisations will detail the day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted on a functional needs basis, and other facilities. They will make it clear that there will be no immunity for the CPA’s secretary-general or representatives of the ICRC in respect of damage caused by, for example, a motor vehicle operated or owned by either. The way that the limitations and requirements have been set out in this regard is important.

Clause 2(1)(e) lays out an important confidentiality provision, to protect certain information provided in confidence to His Majesty’s Government by the ICRC from being disclosed in UK civil court proceedings or under any statutory provision or rule of law. As my noble Friend Baroness Chapman stated on Second Reading in the other place, this provision reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. I am sure that Members will understand that publicly disclosing information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put at risk its ability to have confidential dialogue with conflict parties, its humanitarian access and, indeed, the security of its staff, and might result in the ICRC restricting the information it shares with the UK.

However, in relation to the concerns that Members have raised in the past, the Bill does not provide an absolute blanket exemption for disclosure requirements for all ICRC communications. Important limitations have been incorporated, such as the exclusion of criminal cases. The Government continue to be committed to respecting the confidentiality of ICRC information as a matter of policy. Past practice has demonstrated the importance of doing so. The Bill is an opportunity to end any uncertainty about the Government’s position and to put this practice on a statutory footing.

I want to turn briefly to clause 3, which is equivalent to section 8 of the International Organisations Act 1968, which allows the Secretary of State to certify questions of fact relating to the status of, or the privileges and immunities conferred on, the organisations. In the context of court proceedings, if a question arises of whether a person is entitled to any privilege or immunity by virtue of an Order in Council made under clauses 1 or 2, such a certification is to be treated as conclusive evidence of those facts for the purposes of proceedings.

Clause 4 details the scope and extent of the Orders in Council that confer privileges and immunities on both organisations under clauses 1 and 2 respectively—this relates to the intervention from the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). An Order in Council may make different provisions for different cases or persons, and it may also contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions. Clause 4 also provides the enabling power for two important aspects: first, the Order in Council may specify circumstances in which privileges and immunities do not apply, either because of an exception or because they have been waived by the organisation; and secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State.

Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made for these purposes will be subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, which means that they will require the approval of both Houses before they may have effect. The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on both organisations is set out in the schedule to the Bill and has been informed by the International Organisations Act.

Briefly, clause 5 explains that the term “ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a), and it ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations in respect of all relevant primary and secondary legislation, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland whenever made.

In conclusion, and to reiterate what was said in the other place, the Bill will give the CPA and the ICRC the correct status in UK legislation to allow both organisations to continue their international operations without unnecessary restriction. The Government have a strong commitment to the Commonwealth. It continues to support our global humanitarian objectives through our work with the ICRC, and the Bill is a true reflection of that. I hope that it will enjoy the wholehearted support of the House as it proceeds swiftly into law. I commend it to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

With the leave of the House, let me first say that it is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker—I think for the first time since I have been in the Chamber. We have been opponents at some times and allies at others, but it is a pleasure to see you, and I welcome you to your place. I thank Members from both sides of the House for their insightful and valuable contributions. It is clear that the work and values of both organisations are highly regarded by all Members and that the legislation has support—I hope; I do not want to prejudge a possible vote.

As I noted earlier, this is not the first time that the House has considered forms of this legislation, and we are all pleased to see it back again. On Second Reading in the other place, my noble Friend Baroness Chapman said that she thought the Bill was the first to receive a Second Reading in this Parliament under the new Government; I think it is now the first Bill to receive a Second Reading in both Houses. Could it be the first to gain His Majesty’s signature? I wonder. I certainly hope that before the conference I can provide the answers the shadow Minister was looking for.

I thank the shadow Minister for her kind words. I welcome her and the Opposition’s warm support as well as her tribute to the past proponents of the Bill. I agreed with her comments about the Commonwealth, particularly when she spoke about the friendships and the best practice that we can share, and with her tribute to His Majesty the King. A number of Members referenced Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and her decades of service; her particular engagement with the Commonwealth is recognised by all sides. The shadow Minister also paid tribute to the work of the ICRC and its staff, particularly on Nagorno-Karabakh.

The shadow Minister asked a number of questions, which I will try to answer. If I do not get them all, I will be happy to write to her. She asked specifically about the funding to the ICRC. His Majesty’s Government provide £48 million each year as core unrestricted funding and are on track to provide at least an additional £80 million this year in direct contributions to the ICRC’s work around the world. She and other right hon. and hon. Members raised the importance of the FCDO’s working with the CPA. I certainly hope that all our high commissions and embassies will provide a warm welcome to delegations and support the work; the points about the benefits in soft power and about representing this place in its broadest sense, with all our expertise and traditions, are well made.

Like other right hon. and hon. Members, the hon. Lady made much wider points about the Commonwealth. We attach great importance to our membership of the Commonwealth, which is a vibrant network of 2.5 billion people united in the pursuit of freedom, peace and prosperity. We fundamentally believe that a modern, cohesive and effective Commonwealth can play an important role in delivering progress on UK priorities across the globe—whether in the sphere of democracy, common values, defending the rights of women, girls and minority communities, dealing with climate change and the energy transition, or the particular challenges faced by small island states. We will work on all those key issues together. There is also the issue of growth and economic development; the Commonwealth’s 56 members include some of the world’s fastest growing economies and it is vital that we partner with them for their and our global benefit. Importantly, those issues, among many others, will be discussed at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Samoa.

I also pay tribute to my good friend the Chair of the International Development Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion). She paid particular tribute to the International Committee of the Red Cross; I particularly recognise what she said about the loss of its workers in current conflicts as well as many others in the past. All of us across the House salute the resilience and bravery of those who work in such trying circumstances.

I welcome the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Monica Harding) to her place and thank her for her party’s support for the Bill. She rightly pointed to the example of other countries and why we need to follow suit. I assure her of the new Government’s commitments to international law, the multilateral system, humanitarian principles and the sustainable development goals; my noble Friend Lord Collins and others will be speaking about those matters in due course. The hon. Lady also rightly referenced the recent speech made by the Minister for Development.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Southgate and Wood Green (Bambos Charalambous) on his election and all those elected to the CPA executive. I thank him for his work and support for the Bill. The right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Dame Karen Bradley) has had to attend the important CPA event; she rightly paid tribute to Maria Miller and Ian Liddell-Grainger and highlighted the important work on modern slavery. I wish her well on her panel today. Like me, she is passionate about the personal relationships that we can develop.

The right hon. Lady and others mentioned the importance of the CPA in relation to devolved Administrations. Ironically, the first CPA conference that I attended was in the Senedd, in my own constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth, and brought together representatives of devolved Administrations along with UK and other Members of Parliament—as well as representatives of the overseas territories, for which I now have responsibility. That learning, sharing, friendship and understanding of our different ways of working as well as our common challenges was hugely important.

We have heard some fantastic maiden speeches today. First, we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Jas Athwal) a passionate account of his journey from Punjab to Ilford, which he described as a place of promise. He spoke of the community and the home that he had found and contributed to, and the passion that he clearly felt for his diverse and dynamic community, which has many similarities to my own, was very inspiring. I also noted his pledges on health and the Government’s commitments on NHS reforms, and his campaign for King George hospital. I thank him for that excellent maiden speech.

The right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) always makes important points. I heard very clearly what he had to say, but, as I take a key interest in these matters as well, I would gently stress the point that, as he knows, the Clerks have particularly strong rules relating to the scope of Bills, and the amendment that he suggested may not be in the scope of this Bill. Obviously, it is for the Clerks to opine on the matter. I have heard the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks and will certainly take them away, but there is clearly a stark difference between the Intelligence and Security Committee situation that he described and the position of the CPA and the ICRC.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

May I urge the Minister, when the Government are considering the political dimension of what is being proposed, to engage in consultations with Lord West of Spithead, his own party’s representative on the previous ISC, and also with the new Lord Beamish, formerly Kevan Jones of this parish, who likewise was firmly committed to the sort of measure that I am proposing?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned some well-respected people—my noble Friends —and I will ensure that colleagues across Government hear what he has said, and also his request for the ISC to meet the Prime Minister, although, as he will know, the Prime Minister’s diary is incredibly stretched.

My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) took the opportunity to make a lengthy speech. The Whips will probably teach him not to do that too often, but he made a fantastic contribution including some thoughtful insights on the importance of the Commonwealth and its future, particularly in a world where we are contesting with autocratic and repressive states that seek a very different future for the world. I believe that the Commonwealth provides a set of values and principles on which we can all unite. He spoke of his own family history, and also noted the Commonwealth contribution in the two world wars, which we need to remember regularly, especially as we approach the season of remembrance.

The hon. Member for Windsor (Jack Rankin) made another excellent maiden speech. Like many other Members, I know his constituency well—I have sung at Royal Holloway’s Windsor building, I have visited the fields at Runnymede, and I recently attended a conference on Ukraine in Windsor Castle itself—and I know that it is home to many and varied activities from the cultural to the historic. He spoke of his passion for physics. I wanted to be a physicist myself until my English teacher told me to go into politics, and the contribution that science and mathematics can make to the House is key. The royal history of the hon. Gentleman’s constituency is, of course, well known. I welcome him to the House, and thank him for an excellent speech.

My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Lillian Jones) paid a heartfelt tribute to the family, friends and campaigners who brought her to this place, along with her own clear commitments to public service. She also paid warm tributes to her predecessors, including Clarice Shaw and Cathy Jamieson. I got to know Cathy Jamieson well when I first came to this place 12 years ago. She ensured that I was given a tour around “Killie” football club at one point when I was in her constituency. My hon. Friend may not know this, but there is a direct connection between her constituency and mine: Loudoun Square is at the heart of Butetown. The name denotes the strong links between the coal and shipping industries of Cardiff and the west coast of Scotland. That connection is deep and abiding. My hon. Friend spoke with passion about the huge community assets in her constituency and the strength of that community, and I wish her well in this place.

Last but not least, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) made some very important remarks and some kind remarks about me, and I congratulate him on his election to the CPA’s executive committee. The significance of this change is understood by the Government, which is why we want to get the Bill through. I am glad that he highlighted some of the challenges we see around the Commonwealth, particularly those facing the LGBT+ community. He knows that I take those issues very seriously, and I have taken advantage of my time with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association to raise such concerns in the past. These are issues that I and other Ministers take very seriously.

I will conclude by saying that I am well aware not only of the excellent work that the ICRC does, but of its importance to the Commonwealth. My own constituency has people from Cyprus, Malta, south Asia and Africa. It is vital that we continue those links at the parliamentary level and work together, and we Ministers are committed to doing so. I thank everybody for their contributions today. I look forward to seeing this Bill progress—rapidly, I hope—and I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [LORDS] (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Wednesday 13 November 2024.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Christian Wakeford.)

Question agreed to.

 Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [LORDS] (Money)

King’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any amount refunded in respect of any tax or duty in accordance with arrangements made under the Act.—(Christian Wakeford.)

Question agreed to.

St Helena: UK Immigration

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Foreign Secretary if he will make a statement on the new immigration arrangements between the UK Government and St Helena.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I have been asked to reply as the Minister for the Overseas Territories. I know that these are issues of keen interest to you, Mr Speaker.

The House is aware that a political agreement has been reached with Mauritius about the long-term future of the British Indian Ocean Territory. Once any treaty with Mauritius comes into force, following its proper parliamentary scrutiny, Mauritius will be responsible for any migrants who arrive there. However, we needed to find an interim contingency solution for the period before that agreement comes into force. Given that there is no permanent population, BIOT has never been an appropriate long-term location for migrants due to the logistical challenges of providing appropriate care in such a remote place without civilian infrastructure.

On 15 October, a new memorandum of understanding was reached with the Government of St Helena so that any new migrants arriving in the interim period will be transferred to St Helena. The intention is for that agreement to last until the treaty with Mauritius comes into force, recalling that, in practice, no new migrants have arrived on Diego Garcia since 2022.

We are hugely grateful to the St Helena Government for their assistance. Their Chief Minister has said:

“This arrangement presents a unique opportunity for a British Overseas Territory to be in a position to assist the UK, and we are pleased to be able to work in close partnership with the UK Government towards a mutually beneficial solution.”

The UK Government have agreed to provide one-off funding of £6.65 million to St Helena to improve health and education outcomes, and upgrade government infrastructure. This is consistent with our long-term support to the community in St Helena, which is of course crucial. This is a long-term, consistent partnership. We will support St Helena by providing technical support, and funding the transfer and subsistence costs for any migrants affected. Of course, this is not the first time that St Helena has supported the wider UK family. The agreement is testament to its integral place in our family. We thank it for its support.

[Paul Holmes]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question. I must say that I am disappointed that, once again, the Government have chosen to make an important announcement outside this House, not within it, as they should.

Following on from the Government’s shameful decision to fast-track and capitulate on negotiations to hand over the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius, it is clear that the policy announced over the weekend is a rushed consequence of a deal that does not serve British taxpayers well. This aspect of the deal has not been properly scrutinised by this House, and there has been no announcement on how we will scrutinise the wider issue of the transfer of sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to another country.

During the treaty negotiations, was this plan discussed? If the Government were so keen on signing away sovereignty, why was it not part of the deal that Mauritius would take responsibility for illegal migrants and take them to Mauritius from day one? Were Chagossians consulted on the plan? The Foreign Secretary said that they were updated throughout, but parliamentary questions have revealed that not to be the case.

Finally, how much will the deal cost, and what Department will be responsible? Will there be a drawdown of Treasury funds, or will the money come from Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office budgets? Will the cost be added to the overall cost estimated for the sovereignty deal with Mauritius? Does this plan signify a change of heart on the policy of offshoring as a whole? Before Labour MPs stand up to espouse the deal and say how good it is, they should remind themselves that in the election campaign, they wrote in their leaflets that the offshoring of British citizens was immoral. Does this plan represent a change of policy from this Government?

[Stephen Doughty]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has taken that tone. I set out very clearly in my statement the answer to a number of points that he raised. Matters have also been set out very clearly by the St Helena Government. They have indicated their full agreement. In fact, they were fully part of the process and there was full consultation with them. This is a mutually beneficial win-win for the UK Government and St Helena. As I said, the Chief Minister of St Helena has said that it is in a unique position to help the UK Government, and this will strengthen its reputation and enhance its partnership with the British family.

The hon. Gentleman asked a lot of questions about the arrangements with Mauritius. The Foreign Secretary spoke at great length about the arrangements with BIOT recently. The agreement will go through this House in the proper way, as has been set out, and will face proper parliamentary scrutiny. I am sure that it will attract scrutiny, and that is only right. As I explained, this is a contingency agreement for the period before any agreement with Mauritius comes into place; after that, it will take any migrants. The situation on BIOT is not suitable, long term, for migrants. We have explained that at great length.

I have to say that the Government inherited a mess, and we are taking pragmatic, sensible and proactive measures to address the situation. I am hugely grateful to St Helena for the role it is playing. This is a mutually beneficial win-win. The hon. Gentleman asked where the funds will come from. They will come from the FCDO. We already have a long-term established partnership with St Helena, and it has hugely welcomed this plan. It will help it to deal with a number of ongoing issues. I have set out the details fully. The full details of the agreement are also available from the St Helena Government.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is welcome to hear St Helena mentioned in the House. The money going there amounts to an increase of about 20% in financial aid from the UK this year, which is sorely needed in a community that is so challenged; but will the Minister explain how he will convey people from BIOT to St Helena, given the travel difficulties, and tell us what conversations he has had with the Chief Minister and her Ministers about where these people will be accommodated, if they do arrive?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank my hon. Friend for her interest in St Helena, which has been long-standing. I understand that she visited the island recently, and I welcome her ongoing engagement with the people and the Government there. We have made it clear that we would support the transfer of anyone who did arrive, but let me reiterate that no one has actually arrived on BIOT since 2022. This is a contingency measure only, and, of course, it is not a safe place for people to attempt to go to. This is about closing that route and ensuring that if anyone did make that attempt, they could go to a safe place and be properly supported. The St Helena Government have made clear how they would accommodate and integrate people in that community.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Foreign Secretary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mitchell]

And you, of course, Mr Speaker. We may have been the only Members to survey the island’s new airport, which will in time relieve the British taxpayer of cost and open up the island to a very bright future, with connectivity massively enhanced.

While I was in St Helena, I met the oldest mammal on the planet, born a few years after Napoleon’s death: Jonathan the tortoise. I also visited the island’s impressive hospital, which provides very good healthcare but is a small facility whose function has been specifically tailored to serve the commensurately small community of St Helena. The cohort of people who might arrive from Diego Garcia are likely to have medical needs—indeed, as experience shows, quite complex medical needs. That will place additional pressure on St Helena’s healthcare infrastructure. What will the Minister do to help St Helena with that?

There is some disquiet among residents of St Helena at the thought that an influx of migrants could have an adverse impact on social cohesion and social provision in this very tightly knit community. What is the estimated number of migrants who will be sent there? Bearing in mind that the entire population is less than 5,000, will the Minister impose a limit—admittedly low, but nevertheless a limit? Has he made an assessment of how much this transfer policy will cost the British taxpayer? Of course, Conservative Members do not oppose the principle of offshoring, but we are perplexed by the Government’s choice of destination, a small British overseas territory thousands of miles from Diego Garcia, not least because a number of asylum seekers who landed on the British Indian Ocean Territory have already been transferred to Rwanda. Labour has of course scrapped the Rwanda scheme, so can the Minister tell the House whether the Government’s approach has changed, and whether they welcome offshoring as a means of injecting deterrence into the complexities of illegal migration?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments and questions. He has always taken a keen interest in the overseas territories, and St Helena in particular. I am surprised that he is perplexed, because he and his fellow Ministers were grappling with these very decisions and issues in the last Government. We are providing pragmatic and practical solutions to respond to the situation that we inherited. There is no comparison with the Rwanda scheme. He will have just heard the Home Secretary say that spending £700 million of taxpayers’ money resulted in four volunteers for that scheme. This is a mutually beneficial win-win agreement between the United Kingdom and one of our overseas territories. I have set out the cost very clearly: £6.65 million for the contingency arrangement, and then the costs for anyone who does arrive. Let me reiterate, however, that no migrants have arrived on BIOT since 2022. This is a contingency arrangement that is absolutely necessary, but of course we hope that no one will choose to take such a dangerous route.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the healthcare position. That is exactly why St Helena is a more suitable location for any theoretical migrants to be relocated to; facilities on that level do not exist on BIOT. He mentioned that there is allegedly disquiet in St Helena, but that is simply not the case. I read out very clearly what the St Helena Government and Chief Minister have said, and there are huge benefits to this plan. St Helena is a wonderful place. I have not had a chance to visit it, but I have had a chance to experience its culture, food and people, and I look forward to welcoming the Chief Minister to the Joint Ministerial Council in due course.

[Oliver Ryan (Burnley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am interested to hear how offshoring is being rebranded; the Rwanda scheme was a huge failure. Does the Minister agree that any comparison between this plan and the Rwanda scheme is rubbish? The latter cost £700 million and resulted in four volunteers being sent to Rwanda. This is a far better scheme.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend makes the point himself in his question: this is a mutually beneficial, win-win agreement between us and St Helena, whereas the other scheme cost £700 million and sent four volunteers to Rwanda. There is no comparison.

[Mr Speaker]

We come to the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)]

The Liberal Democrats have already put on the record our concerns about the deal that was struck with Mauritius and how it excluded the voices of Chagossians. We also have concerns about the terms of the agreement. What will happen to the individuals who have been moved to St Helena after 18 months elapse? We cannot just abandon them. Will the Minister update the House on what will happen if an agreement with Mauritius has not been reached by the end of the 18-month period?

Can the Minister also update the House on the asylum seekers who have been detained on Diego Garcia, such as the 60 Sri Lankan Tamils? They are not in the scope of the agreement. Will the Government support those individuals in claiming asylum where they need it?

Finally, it has been reported today that there is an investigation under way into a major hack of the British high commission’s phones during the Chagos islands talks. What action are the Government taking to address this potentially major security breach?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions. As I said, the Foreign Secretary answered questions about the agreement with Mauritius on BIOT earlier, but the hon. Gentleman asks for further details of the arrangement with St Helena. Under the arrangement, if any migrants arrive on BIOT in the future, they will be transferred to St Helena. They will remain free to depart, and to return to their country of origin, but they will not be able to stay on BIOT. St Helena would take responsibility for accommodating those individuals and, if appropriate, processing asylum claims.

The hon. Gentleman mentions existing migrants on the island. They are not included in this arrangement, and we continue to work at pace to find long-term, durable solutions. I will not go into the details; that would be inappropriate, given the legal complexities around the small group of individuals who are there. On his point about the media coverage of alleged hacks, those are subject to an ongoing police investigation in Mauritius, so I do not want to comment, but my understanding is that the allegations are historical, rather than related to the recent negotiation period.

[Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)]

I really welcome the statement, and the clarity that has come with it. Who will ultimately be responsible for people when they find themselves in St Helena?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Fundamentally, as a result of this agreement, St Helena has agreed to take responsibility for any theoretical migrants who arrive, but I draw him back to what I said earlier: Mauritius would take responsibility for any migrants who arrived after the agreement of the treaty, which we will seek to finalise following parliamentary scrutiny.

[Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)]

The Minister really should understand that the British overseas territories are self-governing democracies, and they must make decisions about their own islands’ governance. Has the Legislative Council of St Helena voted in favour of this agreement? Have the people of St Helena been consulted? What impact will the influx of people potentially have on this small island territory of only 4,500 people, and will the agreement have any impact on Tristan da Cunha and Ascension Island, which, as the Minister knows, form part of the overall British overseas territories?

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question; I know he takes a very keen interest in this matter. We have discussed the overseas territories on many occasions, and he knows how seriously I take their democracy and autonomy. That is why it is important to reiterate to the House that this agreement was freely entered into by the Government of St Helena. They have publicly welcomed it profusely and explained why it is beneficial. Obviously, they are responsible for their internal processes within St Helena. We will continue to work with the Government of St Helena, their representatives and, indeed, their Attorney General as we move forward with the agreement. If I may, I will come back to the hon. Gentleman on the point he raises about Tristan da Cunha and Ascension, but the agreement is primarily about St Helena because of the facilities that are available there.

[Elaine Stewart (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the UK’s new agreement with Mauritius will close a potentially dangerous illegal migrant route?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is right: BIOT is not a suitable place for migrants to be present. There is no permanent population and there are not the necessary education and health facilities. That is why we needed to put in place that part of our agreement with Mauritius: to ensure that during the interim, contingency period, were any migrants to arrive—as I said, none have arrived since 2022—they could go to a place where there were hospitals, education, and an economy and a community to support them. We thank St Helena for its help in this matter.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

If it is possible legally to deport illegal migrants from Diego Garcia to St Helena, is there any legal reason why we cannot deport illegal migrants landing on these shores to St Helena or any other overseas territory? Is it, as a former Home Secretary told me recently, because after five years they would acquire rights to British citizenship?

[Stephen Doughty]

We are absolutely confident that this agreement is compliant with international law, and we will be working closely with the Attorney General of St Helena to ensure that it is compliant with our law, with St Helena law and with all our international obligations.

[Chris Murray (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the Government inherited a deeply troubling and complex situation for any migrants involved that the last Government failed to resolve over a number of years, and that we have now taken the decisive action needed to find a solution to this problem?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As I have set out, we inherited a mess, quite frankly, on some of these issues and we are taking the pragmatic, practical steps to ensure that we have agreements that meet the needs going forward.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I accept what the Minister says—that there have been no immigration arrivals since 2022—but does he accept in turn that there is a danger of creating a pull factor? If that happens, and a much larger number arrive than expected, will he put a cap on the number that can be transferred to St Helena?

[Stephen Doughty]

That is exactly why we have concluded these agreements with Mauritius and St Helena. BIOT is not a suitable place for migrants to be present; there is no permanent population and there are no suitable facilities. We are taking these steps to close down that route and ensure that people do not make that dangerous journey.

[Mr Luke Charters (York Outer) (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm that British sovereignty over the overseas territories is non-negotiable, and that the comments from Conservative Members are not only wrong but deeply irresponsible?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have repeatedly made it clear, not least in the Falklands and Gibraltar, that we stand by their sovereignty and self-determination and will defend them. Indeed, that goes for the British overseas territories family, and it is a commitment that I will be making in person when the leaders join me at the Joint Ministerial Council in a few weeks’ time.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Since no migrants have arrived in BIOT since 2022, and given that this agreement lapses after 18 months, what is the problem that the Minister is trying to solve? And given that Rwanda was apparently considered immoral and this is not, is he not simply offering an insult to Kigali?

[Stephen Doughty]

Absolutely not. This is prudent contingency planning. Unfortunately, we inherited a situation from the previous Government where many holes had been left in these very arrangements and where there were significant problems. We are now taking steps to pragmatically address that.

[Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)]

I welcome the Government’s commitment to St Helena. Does the Minister agree that the comparisons with the Rwanda scheme that have been made throughout this urgent question are irresponsible and unhelpful, given that it cost £700 million and sent only four volunteers?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is no comparison with the £700 million of taxpayers’ money that was spent on four volunteers, as the Home Secretary just set out. This is a sensible, win-win, beneficial agreement that benefits both the United Kingdom and St Helena and involves potentially very few people.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

Can the Minister explain why the applications for refugee status made by people who have come to the British Indian Ocean Territory, as it is currently called, cannot be processed now? Why is he instead taking them to St Helena? Will he guarantee that St Helena is not going to become an offshore base for Britain to evade its international human rights obligations by simply sending large numbers of refugees there in the future?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s characterisation of St Helena. It is a wonderful place with wonderful people, and its Government have voluntarily entered this agreement. It is obviously a much more suitable place, were people theoretically to arrive, than BIOT, which is not suitable. I am very confident that all our processes comply with international law.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

The opportunities available to any migrant are vastly greater in Rwanda, aren’t they?

[The Minister for Border Security and Asylum (Dame Angela Eagle)]

Why didn’t they go there, then?

[Stephen Doughty]

As my hon. Friend says, why didn’t they go there? I mean, four people for £700 million is an absurd comparison. We are taking pragmatic steps to address the situation we inherited from the previous Government, and there is no comparison to be made between the situation in Rwanda and the situation in St Helena.

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)]

If illegal migrants arriving in St Helena are granted asylum, does that mean they can then apply to come to the UK? If so, does that not create another market for people smugglers?

[Stephen Doughty]

No, absolutely not. There is no automatic right for them to travel from St Helena to the UK. St Helena will undertake the processing of any cases in a proper way. Of course, anyone who fails to get a positive decision will be removed. St Helena will process them, but there is no automatic right to come to the UK. As with any overseas territory, people will be able to apply for British overseas territory citizenship after a period of time, but it is not automatic.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (North Cotswolds) (Con)]

The Minister has repeated several times this afternoon that no migrants have gone to BIOT in the last two years. He studiously avoided answering my right hon. Friend, the shadow Foreign Secretary’s important question about how many migrants he is providing contingency for. In order to calculate the £6.5 million, he must know how many migrants are likely to go to St Helena—or not, as the case may be. Will he now tell the House what that number is, and will he publish the full impact assessment?

[Stephen Doughty]

Like most people, I do not have a crystal ball. Our expectation, based on the evidence, is that hopefully nobody will make that journey because it is dangerous and BIOT is not a suitable place for migrants. However, it is only right that we put contingency arrangements in place were anyone to do so before any treaty is concluded with Mauritius, which will then take responsibility for dealing with any migrant arrivals. The £6.65 million figure is for health and education. As part of the agreement with St Helena, any support for additional costs, were anyone to arrive, would be negotiated on a case-by-case basis.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

The Minister says this deal will cost taxpayers £6.65 million. Will he now be transparent and tell the House how much UK taxpayers will pay to Mauritius so that we can continue to use Diego Garcia, which he gave away?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

The facts relating to the agreement with Mauritius will be set out in due course, following proper parliamentary scrutiny. This is very specifically about the agreement with St Helena, and I have set out the amount of money and what it will be used for.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the Minister outline how the airbase’s security will be best served within this new management, considering the importance of vetting anyone seeking to enter a military base under regular circumstances, never mind in this situation? What assurance do military personnel have that their safety is important to this Government?

[Stephen Doughty]

I think the hon. Gentleman may be referring to Diego Garcia, which is obviously not a suitable place for migrants, for the reasons he sets out. We have ensured that we put the base on a secure, long-term footing, in the interests of the national security of the UK and our allies.

[Mr Speaker]

That concludes the urgent question. As the House can see on the Order Paper, there are many Bills to be presented today. In order to save time and get on with today’s main business, for Members presenting more than one consecutive Bill, I will accept private notice of the Second Reading dates for those Bills. Those dates will be recorded and published accordingly in Hansard and in the Votes and Proceedings. For Members presenting individual Bills, they will name the date for Second Reading as usual.

South Atlantic Co-operation

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2024 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

On 24 September, the Foreign Secretary met Diana Mondino, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, International Trade and Worship of the Argentine Republic, in New York.

Following this meeting, the Foreign Secretary and Foreign Minister Mondino were delighted to announce a package of co-operation in the South Atlantic, which was published on the gov.uk website.

The package of co-operation includes the following commitments:

To resume co-operation on fisheries where fishing stocks are shared between Argentina and the Falkland Islands;

To develop a more ambitious agenda for co-operation, under the sovereignty formula, aimed at promoting human and economic development and strengthening links between the islands and the continent;

To resume negotiations to complete the third phase of the humanitarian project plan to identify unidentified Argentine soldiers killed in 1982;

To organise a trip to the islands by next-of-kin of fallen soldiers before the end of 2024, so that they can visit the graves of the soldiers laid to rest in the Falkland Islands;

To resume the weekly São Paulo—Falkland Islands flight that stopped once a month in Córdoba, Argentina, as established in 2019.

It was agreed that the formula on the safeguards of sovereignty, in paragraph 2 of the joint statement between the UK and Argentina of 19 October 1989, applies to this agenda and to its outcomes.

The Falkland Islands Legislative Assembly was consulted throughout the negotiations and has issued a statement welcoming this package of co-operation. It has no impact on the UK Government’s commitment to defending our sovereignty in the South Atlantic, or on defending the Falkland Islanders’ right of self-determination.

The United Kingdom and Argentina will celebrate the bicentenary of diplomatic relations in 2025, and the United Kingdom looks forward to a new era of constructive co-operation, characterised by improved dialogue and confidence-building measures.

[HCWS128]

Hamas Attacks: First Anniversary

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I am hugely grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Jon Pearce) for securing this timely debate, and to all hon. Members who intervened and are attending this debate. I give particular recognition to my hon. Friend’s work as the recently appointed chair of Labour Friends of Israel. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Hamish Falconer), the Minister with responsibility for the middle east, was of course due to respond to this debate, but he is participating in commemorative events related to this subject, so it is my privilege to respond on behalf of the Government.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak for his candid, at times shocking, and powerful speech, in which he set out the human stories at the heart of the terrible events of 7 October. With him, I pay tribute to the courage and resilience of the families of all those who lost their life, and all those who are still held hostage. A year since the worst terror attack in Israel’s history, we remember all those killed at the hands of Hamas in that barbaric attack, their families and their loved ones, and condemn those responsible. Without doubt, it was the bloodiest day in Jewish history since the Holocaust, a day we should never have seen, and would rather we never needed to mark. Distressingly, for some families, the nightmare persists, as their loved ones continue to be held by Hamas. Let me be clear: that is utterly unacceptable. They must be released immediately.

As the Prime Minister said in his statement earlier today, and as has been mentioned by many hon. Members this evening, one of the hostages who still remains in Gaza is Emily Damari. She is, as we have heard, a British citizen who was brutally attacked and kidnapped on the morning of 7 October. A year later, as we have heard, she is still held by Hamas, surrounded by the death and darkness of the tunnels that continue to haunt her loved ones. As we have heard, Emily’s story is just one of the painful reminders of the suffering that many families—some British, some British-linked, and many, many more—continue to endure at the hands of Hamas. Their pain is our pain. We continue to demand the immediate and unconditional release of Emily and all the other hostages. My hon. Friend gave many, many other examples. Those chilling examples are proof of Hamas’s cruelty. Our thoughts today are with all those who lost loved ones on 7 October and those still cruelly held by Hamas.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to bring to the attention of the House—we have all seen it in our communities—the deeply worrying rise in antisemitism and hatred across the world, including in this country. There is no place for this hatred in our communities and society. Let us be clear: Hamas wanted to not just attack Israel but send a signal to Jews everywhere. It wanted them to feel scared and unsafe, regardless of where in the world they happened to be. The global rise in antisemitism following the attack highlights the need for urgent collective action to eliminate this abhorrent ideology for good. That is why the Government are resolutely committed to working with the Jewish community to address the challenges that it faces in the UK and, indeed, across the world. I have heard from Jewish communities in my city of Cardiff about their fears and their lived experience of antisemitism and hate. I have also met representatives of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Community Security Trust and many other organisations, and I pay tribute to their work.

Today the Foreign Secretary and the Minister with responsibility for the middle east met members of the Jewish community to outline the Government’s support for them, and to remember and honour the victims of 7 October. I am proud that this year the UK holds the presidency of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance; that allows us to demonstrate our global leadership in combating antisemitism and promoting Holocaust remembrance, research and education.

Tragically, since that dreadful day, we have seen intolerable death and destruction in Gaza. More than 41,000 people have now died, and over half of all identified bodies are those of women and children. We reiterate that no matter how difficult the circumstances, all parties must act in accordance with international law, but the fact that this conflict is continuing and intensifying by the day is a matter of deep concern to Members in all parts of the House. It should compel us to redouble our efforts to achieve an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and to pursue the path of politics and diplomacy, because that is the best way to get the hostages out and to stop the devastation for all. We are particularly concerned about the restrictions on humanitarian aid, with winter approaching. Those restrictions must be lifted, so that the UN and humanitarian agencies can do their jobs safely, in accordance with the UN mandate.

Let me turn to what is happening in the wider region. The latest escalation, involving Lebanese Hezbollah and the Iranian attack on Israel, is yet another blow to regional stability, and we are deeply concerned about the significant number of civilian casualties. The UK was the first G7 country to call for an immediate ceasefire between Lebanese Hezbollah and Israel, on 19 September, and the Prime Minister has made it clear that we stand with Israel and recognise its right to self-defence in the face of Iranian aggression. Iran’s malign role in the region is moving the region further towards escalation, and we call on Iran to step back from the brink, because we must avoid this conflict spiralling out of control and into a wider regional war.

Let me say something about how the United Kingdom is responding, which will cover many of the points raised this evening. Let me first reassure all Members that we continue to work with partners across the region to secure the release of all remaining hostages, including British nationals and those with a close connection to the UK. That has been a priority since day one of this Government. The Foreign Secretary has visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories twice, and the Prime Minister has spoken to both Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. They have also met the families of those being held by Hamas, and the Prime Minister hosted a commemoration event last week to honour their resilience and undefeated spirit during these challenging times.

The UK will remain a vital security partner to Israel as it faces threats from Iran and its malign partners in the region, who are pursuing its annihilation. We will also play our full diplomatic role in ending this conflict and creating a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state. An immediate ceasefire is an absolutely necessary first step towards that goal. In response to the humanitarian crisis, we trebled our aid commitment to the Occupied Palestinian Territories in the last financial year, and we will maintain significant funding for trusted aid agencies on the ground. We lifted the UK’s funding pause on the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, following robust action taken to ensure its neutrality, and released £21 million to support UNRWA’s humanitarian appeal in Gaza and its provision of basic services.

We need calm heads and an urgent focus on a negotiated political solution to end this cycle of violence, so that Israeli, Palestinian and Lebanese civilians can return to their homes and live in peace and security. Together with our allies, the United Kingdom remains determined to steer the region towards a path of peace and reconciliation, and we have a two-state solution at the heart of our approach.

In conclusion, a year on from Hamas’s horrific attack on 7 October, the United Kingdom remains firmly committed to Israel’s defence and security. Those killed, injured and taken on 7 October and since, and their families, will be in all our minds, especially today. This escalating regional conflict is in no one’s interest, which is why we are calling for an immediate ceasefire. Finally, I reiterate that we will continue to use every diplomatic lever to bring that about and secure the release of hostages in co-ordination with our partners. We all want to see them brought home.

Question put and agreed to.

Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Written Corrections

The following extract is from Questions to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office on 30 July 2024.

[Stephen Doughty]

As the Foreign Secretary and I have already outlined, we took robust action against Russia’s shadow fleet, alongside allies at the European Political Community. We will continue to explore further options to strengthen our sanctions, including in the energy sector, and the Foreign Secretary did indeed raise the issue at his meetings in Mangalore.

[Official Report, 30 July 2024; Vol. 752, c. 1157.]

Written correction submitted by the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty):

[Stephen Doughty]

As the Foreign Secretary and I have already outlined, we took robust action against Russia’s shadow fleet, alongside allies at the European Political Community. We will continue to explore further options to strengthen our sanctions, including in the energy sector, and the Foreign Secretary did indeed raise the issue at his meetings in India.