Road Safety Investigation Branch
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
I wish to inform the House that my Department has today published its response to the Government consultation on establishing a Road Collision Investigation Branch.
This Government are committed to improving road safety and reducing the number of people who are killed or seriously injured on our roads each year. I am pleased to announce that the Government intend to bring forward new measures to enable the creation of the branch, which, following discussions with stakeholders, will be named the Road Safety Investigation Branch.
This independent, safety-focused branch will learn the lessons from road collisions and other incidents, including those involving self-driving vehicles, by carrying out independent investigations and making recommendations to prevent future incidents, make our roads even safer and save lives across the country. The branch will also provide vital insight into safety trends related to new and evolving technologies, which will help to ensure road safety policy keeps pace with new developments.
We expect to include measures to enable creation of the branch in the forthcoming Transport Bill.
[HCWS154]
European Train Control System
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
I am pleased to announce over £1billion investment in the East Coast Digital Programme, which aims to introduce the European Train Control System (ETCS) to the Southern section of the East Coast Mainline.
European Train Control System, also known as digital signalling, brings signalling onto a screen in the train’s cab. This provides drivers with continuous real time information, for example maximum allowable speeds, and removes the need for line-side signals. Trackside sensors are retained to track the train on the network and support adaptive decision making, through assessing and understanding that particular train’s characteristics such as speed and braking distance. This investment will fund the fitment of trains and lineside technology on the stretch of line from London King’s Cross to Stoke Tunnel, just North of Peterborough, as well as the integration of this technology into the network and its operating companies.
This will be the first deployment of European Train Control System on a mixed-use mainline in the UK rail network, increasing punctuality and reliability for both passenger and freight services across the whole line. Trains will be able to run closer together safely, enabling more services to run on the same stretch of track. Fewer signalling failures and faster recovery from any delays will make the service more reliable for the customer.
This programme of work presents a unique opportunity to enable a positive step-change in technology on the network, with a move away from systems of signalling that emerged from Victorian times, and towards a high-performing digital alternative. As the rail sector continues to recover from the pandemic, it is vitally important that capacity and reliability are both increased in a financially viable way as demand returns.
This large upfront investment in the rail sector also presents an opportunity for savings in the long run, as maintenance of these assets is more affordable across the whole life of the signals. Furthermore, this programme will create approximately 5,000 highly skilled jobs in the rail industry.
Initial enabler projects have already begun, including the fitment of trains and some infrastructure on the Northern City Line, with works to continue through the 2020s.
This major investment is symbolic of this Government’s ongoing commitment to modernising our railways, making them fit for the 21st century. Deployment of this innovative technology for the first time on a mixed-use mainline in the UK will deliver improvements for the user, support the creation of a financially sustainable railway and also grow and level up the economy by delivering an upgrade to this vital economic artery which stretches along the spine of this country.
[HCWS160]
Transport for London Funding Settlement: Extension
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
Following my statement to the House on 25 February, I am updating the House on a short extension of the current Transport for London (TfL) funding settlement that was due to expire on 24 June 2022, by 19 days, to 13 July. This has been agreed by the Mayor of London.
Since the start of the pandemic, we have supported the transport network in London with nearly £5 billion funding through extraordinary funding settlements for Transport for London. We have recognised the reliance of London’s transport network on fare revenue, and Government continue our commitment to mitigating loss of fare revenue because of the pandemic.
This extension to the current funding settlement is necessary in part due to the unsatisfactory progress made by TfL on its conditions, including pensions. Resolving these issues is an integral part of setting TfL on the path to financial sustainability, and Government stand ready to engage constructively to reach a resolution. This extension ensures that they receive due attention, as well as allowing time for both sides to consider a longer-term capital settlement.
Government are committed to supporting London’s transport network as we have since the start of the pandemic, and is in discussions with TfL on a longer-term settlement. By rolling over the provisions of the existing agreement, the extension provides continued support to Transport for London and certainty to Londoners while we work with Transport for London on their emergency funding needs.
Support to Transport for London has always been on the condition that Transport for London reaches financial sustainability as soon as possible and with a target date of April 2023. Government continue to press the Mayor of London and Transport for London to take the decisions needed to put the organisation on a sustainable footing. I will update the House at my earliest opportunity on the details of any longer-term capital settlement.
[HCWS138]
Transport
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Grant Shapps
I wish the hon. Lady’s relation well in his job, and I hope he can get back to it very soon. I have just explained that this Government are putting £96 billion into northern powerhouse rail, £35 billion into upgrades and more money into the restoring your railway fund.
[Official Report, 20 June 2022, Vol. 716, c. 577.]
Letter of correction from the Secretary of State for Transport, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps).
An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake).
The correct response should have been:
Grant Shapps
I wish the hon. Lady’s relation well in his job, and I hope he can get back to it very soon. I have just explained that this Government are investing £96 billion for the integrated rail plan for the north and midlands, including northern powerhouse rail, and more money into the restoring your railway fund.
Industrial Action on the Railway
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the rail strikes. We are now less than eight hours away from the biggest railway strike since 1989—a strike orchestrated by some of the best paid union barons, representing some of the better paid workers in this country, which will cause misery and chaos to millions of commuters.
This weekend, we have seen union leaders use all the tricks in the book to confuse, to obfuscate and to mislead the public. Not only do they wish to drag the railway back to the 1970s, but they are employing the tactics of bygone unions: deflecting accountability for their strikes on to others; attempting to shift the blame for their action, which will cause disruption and damage to millions of people; and claiming that others are somehow preventing an agreement to their negotiation.
I do not think the public will be hoodwinked. [Interruption.] Opposition Members laugh, but we are talking about the families who will be unable to visit their relations, the music fans who are hoping to go to Glastonbury, the students who will be unable to get to their GCSEs and A-level exams, the businesses who are just beginning to recover from covid and people who will miss out on their medical treatment because of these strikes. That is what the Opposition are supporting. They know that this week’s rail strikes, created and organised by the unions, are the full responsibility of the unions.
Of course, we are all doing our utmost to get the unions and the rail industry to agree a way forward and call off the strikes. In such discussions, it is always the employer and the unions who need to get together and negotiate. In this case, that is the train operating companies, Network Rail and their union representatives. We are not the employer, and we will not undermine the process. [Interruption.] I hear the calls of the Labour leadership for us to get involved somehow, perhaps by inviting the unions for beer and sandwiches to discuss the situation. We all know that the Leader of the Opposition thinks that a beer and a curry is a work meeting, but we will be leaving this to the employers, who are the right people to negotiate with the unions. Indeed, the unions are in daily talks with the employers—or at least they were, until they walked out an hour ago to hold a press conference, saying that the strikes would be on.
Despite these strikes, we are doing everything we can to minimise disruption throughout the entire network. We are working with the civil contingencies secretariat, the Government’s emergency planning team, to keep critical supply chains open wherever possible. Operators will keep as many passenger trains as possible running, although of course with so much disruption to the timetable, that will be very difficult on strike days. It is estimated that around 20% of planned services will operate, focused on key workers, main population centres and critical freight routes. But there will be mass disruption, and we advise passengers to avoid travelling unless absolutely necessary—which, of course, for many it will be. The National Rail Enquiries website will be kept updated with the latest travel information to ensure that passengers can make informed decisions about their travel. Passengers are strongly advised to check before they travel and encouraged to look for alternative means of transportation if their journey is affected, including on the days between the strikes.
We are looking at a variety of different options for the railways to maintain services amid disruption in the medium and longer term. We can no longer tolerate a position where rail workers can exercise their right to strike without any regard for how the rights of others are affected. Nurses, teachers and other working people who rely on the railway must be able to travel. Minimum service legislation is just one part of that. Minimum service levels are a Government manifesto commitment, and they will require train operators to run a base number of services even in the event of future strike action. It is a system that works well in other countries, including Belgium and France, and so we will be bringing in legislation to protect the travelling public if agreement cannot be reached when major disruption is expected, as with the strikes this week.
The rhetoric that we have heard from union leaders and Opposition Members over the weekend seems to be focused on widening the division rather than bridging the gap. The whole point of the railway reforms—based on the Williams review, which engaged with the unions very extensively—is to unite and modernise the industry, and just as we cannot reform the railways with obsolete technology, we cannot do so by clinging to obsolete working practices. For example, leisure travel at weekends is currently a huge potential growth area. After covid, people are coming back and are travelling at the weekends more than before. However, under an agreement which dates back to 1919, Sunday working is voluntary on most of the railway, so the industry cannot do what everyone else does—what other businesses and organisations do—and service its customers. Instead, it has to appeal to people to come and work, and that service has sometimes been unavailable, for instance when large football matches are taking place: during the Euro finals, 170 trains were cancelled.
The industry therefore needs to change. Unions claim that this strike is about a pay freeze, but that is factually incorrect. We are not imposing a pay freeze. The whole point of these reforms is to build a sustainable, growing railway, where every rail worker receives a decent annual pay rise. Let me be clear, however: if modernisation and reform are to work, we must have unions that are prepared to modernise, otherwise there can be no deal. This strike is not about pay, but about outdated unions opposing progress—progress that will secure the railway’s future. These strikes are not only a bid to stop reform; they are critical to the network’s future. If the reforms are not carried out, the strikes will threaten the very jobs of the people who are striking, because they will not allow the railway to operate properly and attract customers back.
The railway is in a fight . It is in a fight for its life, not just competing with other forms of public and private transport but competing with Teams, Zoom and other forms of remote working. Today, many commuters who three years ago had no alternative but to travel by train have other options, including the option of not travelling at all. Rail has lost a fifth of its passengers and a fifth of its revenue.
Since the start of the pandemic, the Government have committed £16 billion of emergency taxpayer support —we all know the numbers; that means £600 for every single household in the country—so that not a single rail worker lost his or her job. We have invested £16 billion to keep trains running and ensure that no one at Network Rail or DFT-contracted train operating companies was furloughed. Now, as we recover and people start to travel again, the industry needs to grow its revenues. It needs to attract passengers back, and make the reforms that are necessary for it to compete. The very last thing that it should be doing now is alienating passengers and freight customers with a long and damaging strike. So my message to the workforce is straightforward: “Your union bosses have got you striking under false pretences, and rather than protecting your jobs, they are actually endangering them and the railways’ future.”
We have a platform for change. We want the unions to work with the industry and the Government to bring a much brighter future to our railways, and that means building an agile and flexible workforce, not one that strikes every time someone suggests an improvement to our railway. Strikes should be the last resort, not the first. They will stop customers choosing rail, they will put jobs at risk, they will cause misery across the country, they will hit businesses that are trying to recover from covid, and they will hurt railway workers themselves. So please, let us stop dividing the railway industry, and let us start working for a brighter future.
Louise Haigh
If the Secretary of State will not listen to me, he should at least listen to his own colleague and former parliamentary aide, the right hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry), who said yesterday:
“I can tell you the only way out of a dispute is via negotiation. I’d call on all parties including the Government to get around the table because this is going to have a huge negative impact on people’s lives.”
The Secretary of State’s own MPs and the public know that the only way to sort this out is for him to do his job.
But that is not all, because this week it was revealed that the Secretary of State had not only boycotted the talks but tied the hands of those at the table. He and his Department failed to give the train operating companies—a party to the talks—any mandate to negotiate whatsoever. One source close to the negotiations said:
“Without a mandate from Government we can’t even address the pay question.”
Today, the Rail Delivery Group confirmed that it had not even begun those discussions. That is the reality. These talks are a sham, because Ministers have set them up to fail. It is for the Government to settle this dispute. They are integral to these negotiations, which cannot be resolved unless the Secretary of State is at the table, but it is becoming clearer by the day that Ministers would rather provoke this dispute than lift a finger to resolve it.
This is the same Transport Secretary who just a few short weeks ago was feigning outrage over the disgraceful behaviour of P&O and who is now adopting its playbook. Replacing skilled, safety-critical staff with agency workers cannot and must not be an option. So what exactly has changed between the Secretary of State calling on the public to boycott P&O and now, when he is suggesting that that behaviour should be legalised?
Tomorrow we will see unprecedented disruption. We have been clear: we do not want the strikes to happen. Where we are in government, we are doing our job. In Labour-run Wales, a strike by train staff has been avoided. Employers, unions and the Government have come together to manage change. That is what any responsible Government would be doing right now, because whether it is today, tomorrow or next week, the only way this dispute will be resolved is with a resolution on pay and job security. The Secretary of State owes it to the hundreds of thousands of workers who depend on our railways and the tens of thousands of workers employed on them to find that deal.
Those rail workers are not the enemy. They are people who showed real bravery during the pandemic to keep our country going. They showed solidarity to make sure other workers kept going into work. Some lost colleagues and friends as a result. They are the very same people to whom the Prime Minister promised a high-wage economy a year ago before presiding over the biggest fall in living standards since records began. There is still time for the Secretary of State to do the right thing, the brave thing, and show responsibility. Patients, schoolchildren, low-paid workers—the entire country needs a resolution and they will not forgive this Government if they do not step in and resolve this. Even now, at this late hour, I urge the Secretary of State: get around the table and do your job.
Grant Shapps
The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) used a lot of words to avoid saying the four words, “I condemn the strikes.” She can practise saying it if she likes. I condemn the strikes—will she?
I remind the House that the hon. Lady is a former union official. She will therefore know better than most that negotiations are always held between the employers and the unions. She calls on the Government to get the parties around the table, but they were around the table. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) is right that they are not now, because the union has just walked out to call a press conference to say the strikes are on.
The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley is wrong when she says these strikes are about pay, safety and job cuts. Let us take them in turn. Pay—the unions wrongly told their workers that there would be no pay rise. There will be a pay rise because the pay freeze is coming to an end, so that is untrue.
Safety—it is unsafe to have people walking down the track to check the condition of the lines when it can be done by trains that can take 70,000 pictures a minute and by drones that can look at the lines from overhead. Safety is about updating outdated working practices. If the hon. Lady cared about safety, she would care about modernisation.
Job cuts—the hon. Lady will know there has already been a call for voluntary job cuts. In fact, 5,000-plus people came forward, and 2,700 have been accepted. This is about ensuring we have a railway that is fit for the post-covid world. It is therefore crazy that the RMT jumped the gun and, before the talks had a chance to get anywhere, launched into strikes.
The hon. Lady’s call for the Government to be more involved is a desperate attempt to deflect from the fact the Labour party and its constituency Labour parties have received £250,000 from the RMT. And that is nothing—Labour has received £100 million from the unions over the last 10 years, and Labour Members are here today, as ever, failing to condemn strikes that will hurt ordinary people, that will hurt kids trying to do their GCSEs and A-levels, that will hurt people trying to get to hospital appointments that were delayed during covid, and that will even see veterans miss armed forces celebrations this week.
There is no excuse for the hon. Lady and her Front-Bench team sitting on the fence. I can almost feel her pain as she resists saying the four words, “I condemn the strikes.”
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I call the Chairman of the Transport Committee, Huw Merriman.
Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)
I find it extremely bizarre for the Secretary of State to be blamed for not being in the room when these talks, which were ongoing when the RMT called the strikes, were all about intricate, technical reforms of which we would not expect politicians to be in charge, and indeed when the RMT has said it will not negotiate with a Conservative Government. He does not need to waste his time responding to that.
I was down at the port of Southampton with the Select Committee last week, and 30% of everything that comes in on those ships goes to the rest of the country by rail freight. These strikes will affect everyone, not just rail passengers. What are we doing to preserve our rail freight routes?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the cause of the strikes and about it being bizarre that the union walked out this afternoon while the talks were still ongoing, and while still trying to claim there should be more talks.
My hon. Friend is right that the disruption will create a major problem for rail freight, which has been doing pretty well as more freight shifts to rail post covid—about 9% of the overall total. We are now working as closely as possible with colleagues at Network Rail to design the strike day and post-strike day timetables, to make sure that as much freight as possible can travel, but I will not mislead him or the House, as it will be very difficult to achieve. Anyone who cares about our supply chains in this country should be against these unnecessary and unwarranted strikes.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
What a pile of nonsense. The glee with which the Secretary of State spoke on Thursday and again today rather tells the story. He spoke of the support for the rail industry and the fact that no one has lost their job. If only we had seen that same support for the aviation industry, which was promised, we would not be seeing the scenes we are up and down this country at airports across this land. In response to P&O’s unacceptable behaviour in replacing staff with agency staff, he called for the company to be boycotted and for it to reverse its decision. Now he is planning to legislate to allow agency workers to replace striking staff. Why does he not care for the rights of rail workers, given that he appeared to care so deeply for the rights of ferry workers?
ScotRail, with the encouragement of the Scottish Government, has negotiated a settlement with drivers to end their pay dispute, get services back up and running and support workers. Despite that, services will still be disrupted as a consequence of the industrial action that the UK Government have stoked with Network Rail workers. Does the Secretary of State agree that devolving Network Rail powers to Scotland is the only way to protect Scotland? Despite his claim that the unions are solely responsible for these strikes, we now know that the UK Government have prevented meaningful negotiations. With inflation heading over 10% and a Tory cost of living crisis, how can he explain or defend preventing negotiations on wage increases, unless stoking an industrial dispute to force through anti-union laws is actually the Government’s aim?
Finally, does the Secretary of State share my concern for the welfare of the Scottish Conservatives, none of whom are with us today? On the ScotRail-ASLEF issue, the Scottish Conservatives’ Twitter account said
“The SNP must sort this mess out and address the travel misery facing commuters.”
Graham Simpson MSP, the Scottish Conservative transport spokesperson, no less, called for the Scottish Government to get involved and get round the table. That is the difference in approach we get from the Scottish Conservatives depending on which Government they are addressing. So does the Secretary of State think that the Scottish Tory approach is shameful; shameless; the standard utterly hypocritical politics of the Scottish Tories; or all of the above?
Grant Shapps
I will address the point about P&O, because the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) also raised it. I am surprised that they cannot see the glaring and obvious differences in the disgraceful treatment of P&O workers. For a start, it fired its workers and brought in foreign workers at below the minimum wage—I would have thought that was a fairly obvious difference. Secondly, no one’s wage is being cut here. Thirdly, let me remind the hon. Lady that in the industry we are talking about train drivers have a median salary of £59,000 and rail workers have a median salary of £44,000, which compares rather favourably with that of nurses, who have a median salary of £31,000, and care workers, whose median salary is perhaps £21,000. No one is talking about cutting salaries; everybody here is trying to get the modernisation that could secure the future of our railways, and it is a great pity to see respected Opposition Front Benchers trying to mislead the public by somehow suggesting that this is something to do with the P&O situation when it is entirely separate and different.
The other point worth quashing is the idea that somehow we have not provided a negotiating mandate or that we have told Network Rail not to negotiate. That is simply not true. Network Rail has a negotiating mandate and is able to negotiate. It is negotiating on a package of measures that includes more than 20 areas of reform, which are deeply technical and require not only the input but the work of the employers to negotiate. In return for these reforms lies the route to better salaries—higher pay. But I want to ensure, once and for all, that we quash the idea that our railway workers are poorly paid in this country; they are not.
John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
What has been the monthly rate of taxpayer subsidy to the railways so far this year? What additional flexibilities could managers use to try to get a bigger proportion of services running even on a strike day?
Grant Shapps
My right hon. Friend is right to discuss the subsidy, which has been £16 billion as a whole through covid—or £16 billion committed, which means that we do not have the exact number yet for the amount of that which is still going towards the operations this year. One thing I can say to him is that without that support the railways simply would not have been able to operate. It is the equivalent of £160,000 per individual rail worker. To turn around and call these strikes is a heck of a way to thank taxpayers. We have lost around a fifth of the income from rail. I hear Mick Lynch, the leader of the RMT, claim that the Government are cutting the money that is going to the railways, but that is a fundamental misunderstanding on his part. The money that is missing is the £2 billion of passenger fares that are not being paid because people are not travelling.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
In my area, we witnessed the Paddington and Southall crashes. One of my constituents was a driver who lost his life. We were told then about the modernisation of safety inspections and it was the workers who pointed out what risks they caused. We hear today that there will be a 50% cut in the safety inspections of the infrastructure. Does the Secretary of State really think the British public have more confidence in his assessment of safety on the rails than in that of the workers who actually implement the safety inspections? I believe the British public expect the Secretary of State not to come in here ranting to provoke a strike but to behave with the dignity and responsibility of the high office that he holds.
Grant Shapps
As the House will recall from last week, the right hon. Gentleman receives donations from the very union that is going on strike—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. I cannot have a dialogue. I recognise that there is a difference of opinion. It might have to be settled at another point. We will stick to this point and if the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) wants to raise the matter later, I will listen to him.
Grant Shapps
Similar to the right hon. Gentleman—this is where we have a lot in common—I had the very sad Hatfield rail accident in my constituency, and Potters Bar is next to where I live. Those were two major rail accidents in respect of which the maintenance of the railway was absolutely key.
I have heard Mick Lynch of the RMT mention this figure of a 50% reduction in safety staff. What is wrong about that is, as I explained in my statement, if we can have automation, with trains taking 70,000 images per minute, and use drones and other technologies, it will put our railway at risk not to use those things, because the modern standards that are required for maintenance will not be available.
The right hon. Gentleman asked how I know about these matters; as Transport Secretary, I have the unfortunate task of having to read all the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigations, and I sometimes have to respond to coroners as well. Recently, I read with great sadness about a man who was killed while walking along the track to maintain it. We need to get rid of these outdated, outmoded ways of carrying out maintenance and really look after the safety of the railways.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
I think the House will appreciate that the way to deal with increasing rail safety and reducing risk to rail workers is not really across the Floor of the House but between the employers and the union safety representatives. Further progress should then come.
The rail unions have a six-month authority to cause industrial disruption; they should not be using it straightaway. In my view, my local passengers—most of whom earn less than rail workers and some of whom do not earn anything at all because they are students trying to take exams this week—would prefer it if both sides of the House could call on the unions to postpone these disputes until they will not affect so many people so harshly. I think, as one of the most union-friendly Conservatives, that my voice is not necessarily going to be heard by the union leaders, but if Labour would join in we could say in a cross-party way, “Postpone the strikes this week, get on with the talks and negotiations, and if people want to take time off to go to a TUC or Labour rally, they should come back to the talks, not just go to the media.”
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is of course absolutely right about this. The absolute truth is that we need to have modernisation—we need to improve our railways. If we work together to do it, we can have a far improved railway and bring back passengers, and we can make easier things such as ticketing—currently, only one in eight tickets are purchased in a ticket office, yet we have the same set-up, with people sat behind the glass, as we have had since the 1990s. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we can modernise and improve the railways, but what is required is for the Labour party, which is much closer to the unions, to endorse that.
Perhaps if I can, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will clear up my exchange with the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). I understand that it is his constituency Labour party that has received the £30,000 in RMT funding.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
When there is an impasse in negotiation, it is the responsibility of all the partners to do whatever they can to resolve the dispute. I have been talking today to railway workers, and they are desperate to see an end to this dispute, but they do need a change in the dynamics. Will the Secretary of State stop his grandstanding, enter the room that the unions are willing to occupy, and engage in dialogue and see where that takes him?
Grant Shapps
The hon. Lady, whose own constituency Labour party received £3,000 from the RMT, may have missed the leader of her union address a press conference about an hour ago, where he made it clear that he had walked out of the talks to which she is encouraging the employers to return. We are ready to speak. We want to see this settled. Pay offers have been put down, but modernisation is required in return. It takes two to tango.
Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)
UKHospitality, the hospitality trade association, believes that the strikes tomorrow, Thursday and Saturday will have a massive effect on the hospitality industry. We are talking about not just the major employers, but the small, family-run restaurants and cafés. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, rather than taking these strikes, the RMT should be going back to the talks and trying to stop these strikes, so that we can protect the jobs within the important hospitality industry?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is right. These strikes will cost the railways a lot. They will particularly cost people who are unable to travel—particularly the lowest paid, because they often have jobs to which people still have to physically turn up. There is probably not a sector that will suffer more than the hospitality sector. Just as this country is recovering from covid, it is completely unforgiveable of the unions to call their members out on strike when they are doing so artificially and without good cause, while negotiations are still continuing, and on the false prospectus of there not being pay rises when there were always going to be pay rises.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Secretary of State has mentioned on a number of occasions the various different people who will be seriously impacted by the strike: the exam students; those with medical appointments; and many, many others. Given that he insists that there was nothing that he could possibly have done to avert this strike, can he tell us instead what conversations he has had with the NHS, with education leaders and with others to understand what his Department can do to help health and education staff get to work for the rest of this week to support their critical industry?
Grant Shapps
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question and, indeed, for her vote as well. When this House voted last week with a 278 majority condemning the strikes, I believe that she and her party were in the Lobby putting their position clearly on the record, unlike the Official Opposition.
On those discussions with the NHS, with teachers and the rest, I am engaged with the Civil Contingencies Secretariat, which is the part of Government that co-ordinates with me and fellow Secretaries of State across Government to try, as far as possible, to ease some of the strains and stresses that will come. For example, in the case of exams where people may turn up late, we have been working with the exam authorities. However, there is no magic solution. There are 2,500 stations in this country and more than 20,000 miles of track. The fact is that, if they are closed down as the unions are doing, many people will suffer.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
My constituents from Leighton Buzzard and Dunstable pay enormous sums of money to commute into London. Has the Secretary of State done any modelling on the impact of some of the pay rises that are being asked for and the ability of people to be able to afford to travel on the railways?
Grant Shapps
As Transport Secretary, I find that a lot of the time people talk or indeed complain to me about the cost of a ticket on our rail, which can be very high. It is worth knowing that one third of the ticket price is made up of the salary of those who run the trains. As I have said all along, I want to see our railway workers paid well for doing their work, and in fact they are paid very well for doing their work, but we must run our railways as efficiently as possible to keep the ticket price down for the passengers. That is the most important part of the reforms needed and what is unfortunately at the heart of this strike: not pay, but the reform. To answer my hon. Friend’s question about his constituents, I am arranging for people who have annual season tickets, rather than having to rely on a delay repay system, to be able to apply to get their money back for the days they are unable to travel this week.
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State knows that the Government have cut £4 billion from our transport system, including £2 billion from national rail. As a result, the companies involved have decided to impose a real-terms pay cut, lengthen the working day for new starters, attack rail workers’ pensions and cut thousands of jobs. That is likely to lead to much poorer conditions for staff and potentially less safe services for passengers. We are on the eve of the biggest rail strike in a generation. When will he step up to his responsibility and do what he can to resolve the dispute?
Grant Shapps
I am afraid that reading the RMT brief is what leads Labour Members to believe a bunch of untruths. Let me start with the first one: a £4 billion cut, the hon. Lady says. I think I have already explained that, but that is the passengers not coming on the railway. That is why there is a cut in revenue to the railways. What a terrible way this is to address that—going on strike, closing down the railway and putting more passengers off. It makes no sense. She talks about pension reform, but there has been considerable progress made, and it is the Pensions Regulator that needs there to be reform, otherwise the system would fall over. There has been considerable progress made in some of these areas, but again it is worth pointing out to the House that the rail pension age for earlier retirees is 62, and the pension can be about £40,000 a year. Those are rightly generous terms, but they must come in return for reforms to the rail system, otherwise it will fall over. It is not the Government cutting money; it is passengers not travelling.
Jack Brereton (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con)
Meir station was announced at the weekend, and it is fantastic that we are moving to the next stage of the restoring your railway fund. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, just when we are trying to attract more people back on to the railways and investing in things such as Meir station and the restoring your railway programme, it is not the right time to be striking, and that these totally reckless actions by the unions must be condemned?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Here is the thing: I know the Opposition would love to paint us as being anti-railway, as if we want to close it down or we do not care about it, but the opposite is true. There has not been a Government for decades—perhaps ever—who have invested so much in the railway. If we think about the £96 billion for the integrated rail review in the north and the midlands, the £35 billion of ongoing improvements, maintenance and upgrades, and the fantastic announcement on Meir station as part of the restoring your railway bid, reversing the Beeching cuts, there has never been a more pro-rail Government. We just need a union that is prepared to work to enable it to continue to thrive.
Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab)
To declare an interest, my father-in-law is a train driver and a member of the RMT. I am saddened that from the Government Benches we are not hearing the same loving rhetoric towards our railway staff that we did during the pandemic. The Secretary of State called our railway workers heroes. What has changed, and why will he not get around the negotiating table and see what he can do?
Grant Shapps
I wish the hon. Lady’s relation well in his job, and I hope he can get back to it very soon. I have just explained that this Government are putting £96 billion into northern powerhouse rail, £35 billion into upgrades and more money into the restoring your railway fund. There has never been a more pro-rail Government, as far as I can see, in history. However, it is also the case that, during the pandemic, we pumped in £16 billion, equivalent to £600 per household in this country or £160,000 per railway worker, to keep them in their jobs. We love the railways, and I like the people who work on them as well—I just want them to work, that is all.
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)
I am sure the Secretary of State will join me in thanking the wider members of the railway economy who will have to come together to sustain a skeleton services over the coming weeks. Will he draw a conclusion, though, from the 2016 Southern and Thameslink strike, where a lack of familiarity with the Passenger Assist service for disabled passengers meant that many could not complete their journeys and in the worst-case scenario were left abandoned on deserted station platforms after the last service of the day? When he discusses contingency planning with the many train operators, will he bear that very salient point in mind, because it was forgotten last time and had to be relearned yet again?
Grant Shapps
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who is a distinguished former Rail Minister and knows a great deal about the service. He is absolutely right about Passenger Assist. We are expanding that service by, for example, speeding up response times and introducing things like apps and standards to make sure that people can use our trains. We will shortly complete the work that we have promised on putting in tactile pavements around station platforms to remove another potential risk of using our railways. I am fully on board with everything that he said—we just need our railways running, though.
Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab)
My mum is one of the RMT members who will be taking industrial action this week, along with many of my constituents, the majority of whom are cleaning workers, catering and gateline staff, and other ancillary roles who are not even on a real living wage and at the sharp end of this Government’s cost of living crisis. My mum and the other key workers in transport are not striking because they want to; it is a last resort because they feel they have been left no choice. A real-terms cut to their pay or the threat of losing their job altogether is far more than the wages they will lose in striking to defend themselves. Will the Transport Secretary therefore tell the House what steps he has taken to enable train operating companies to make an offer on a deal so that this crisis can be fairly resolved and the strikes averted?
Grant Shapps
They have actually already made an offer—the hon. Lady may not be aware—that the RMT has talked about this afternoon and clearly rejected as well. She talks about the cost of living crisis but fails to mention that it is a global inflationary problem caused not only by coronavirus but now a war in Ukraine on which this country has helped to lead the response. She talks about the salaries of people on the railway. As I have said several times, I want the salaries to be higher. There will be a pay increase this year for her mum and for everyone else. It is important to recognise that a responsible Government have to make the judgment between railway workers, nurses, teachers, care workers and many others. In that regard, she should know that in the past 10 years there has been a 39% increase in railway workers’ salaries compared with just 16% for nurses. We do need to make sure that the fair settlement is fair for everybody.
Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)
Accepting that there is never a good time to strike, does the Secretary of State agree that to do so when the cost of fuel is at impossibly high levels, people are struggling to hold down their jobs and rebuild their businesses in a post-covid environment and children are in the middle of their exams shows a callousness from union bosses that should be condemned, and not supported by Labour Members?
Grant Shapps
Exactly. I think the whole House has noticed that their inability to simply say that they condemn the strikes is the most striking part of this debate. This will hurt ordinary people. It will hurt the cleaners who rely on trains to get to their jobs but will not be able to get there, and in some cases will therefore not get paid. This is a strike led by the union bosses who have misled their members into thinking that there would not be a pay rise without striking when that was never the case.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. As I travelled today from Belfast to London, I was very aware of the hundreds of accents and the thousands of visitors. With all the strikes affecting so many tourists who rely on the trains to get about, what steps are being taken to provide information for visitors who do not know how a strike will affect them, and how can we do more to see an end to these strikes?
Grant Shapps
That is very much one of the things that we are working on through the civil contingencies secretariat. I am working with my right hon. Friend Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that tourists can still receive information through their hotels, bed and breakfasts or wherever they happen to be staying, because they would not necessarily know to look at things such as National Rail Enquiries, as I hope others would. We are trying to push the message out as widely as possible, but it will be far from perfect. Again, just as this country was starting to recover—just as we came out of coronavirus first, because we got the jabs done first—this is the last thing, among others, that the tourism sector needs.
Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con)
It is sad that the Labour Front-Bench team will not condemn the strikes that are happening tomorrow, but in Wales, Labour is going further and denying their existence. In my constituency, which I assure the House is in Wales, there are no strikes tomorrow, Thursday and Saturday—Labour is calling them “travel disruption”. I ask the Secretary of State not to forget about Wales and to make sure that we get the trains running again. When is a strike not a strike?
Grant Shapps
I notice that the tone of the Opposition Front-Bench spokespeople has changed considerably since last week, when they each stood up and claimed that in whichever part of our great United Kingdom they run the Government, there were somehow not going to be strikes. The RMT strikes affect the entire country—Scotland, Wales and England. The only place that is being spared is Northern Ireland. The track and the responsibility of the unions—the RMT—to work with Network Rail means that the disruption, I am afraid, will be wholesale.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
May I press the Secretary of State, as a number of hon. Members have—[Interruption.] No, I have not received any money, if that is the conversation that he is having with the Minister of State, Department for Transport, the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton). I want to press him on agency workers. He has been asked if he will legislate to allow agency workers to effectively bust industrial action in future. What guarantees will he give that those agency workers will have the necessary training in safety and all the rest of it? Is he suggesting that Network Rail should break the law this week by hiring agency workers, and who will pay the fines if it does?
Grant Shapps
No, Network Rail obviously cannot do that this week, but yes, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy will bring forward legislation quickly to allow for what the hon. Gentleman calls agency workers. For this purpose, that is actually more about transferable skills. It will mean that somebody who is sitting at a screen in a control room and is fully qualified to run the screen next door, but at the moment is not allowed to do so because of some antiquated union rules that prevent it, will be allowed to do so. That means that the whole country will not be held to ransom by union barons who prefer to pursue their narrow agenda, supported by the Labour party, when ordinary hard-working people want to get to work. We will be introducing that legislation, and we will be doing it very quickly.
Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
Tomorrow will see yet another day of tube strikes in London, which will be the 53rd day since Sadiq Khan became Mayor of London, even though he was elected on the basis of promising zero strikes. That strike will cause untold misery and disruption for my constituents at a time when businesses in London are just beginning to recover from coronavirus. Does my right hon. Friend agree that London deserves better than Sadiq Khan and his union paymasters, and that London Labour Members should condemn the strikes, rather than tacitly supporting them?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She and the whole House will have noticed that while the Opposition were singing the praises of other parts of the Union, including what they call Labour Wales—I do not think it is Labour at all, but Labour runs the Administration—for not striking, they failed to mention that their own Mayor of London has had 53 days of strikes. The truth is that we need to move ahead with automated trains on parts of the London underground; the metro in Paris has them and it is time we got on with it here.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
Earlier, the Secretary of State waved around a document relating to 28 areas of reform that he thinks need to be implemented to modernise our railway. Has he stipulated that they must be agreed before rail operators can negotiate pay?
Grant Shapps
I will recount, but I think it was 20 areas, and no, I have not done that, but it is the kind of modernisation we would expect. For example, I was just looking at the list, and one working practice means that paysheets have to be done on paper, whereas it would clearly make sense to do them electronically. It would save a lot of time and a lot of money, and I cannot really see why anyone would be against it, but it is a working practice that is not allowed. I mentioned being able to move between different very similar roles but only where somebody is fully qualified, and those kinds of flexibilities in rostering do not exist.
It is pretty much like trying to run an orchestra for Network Rail, but it does not know who is going to turn up or which instruments they will bring, and it has no ability to tell them where to sit—and then it is supposed to make the railway run. We have to modernise our railways.
Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)
Obviously, we have this Tuesday and this Thursday, and many of my constituents will have to put up with this chaos. They will also have to put up with it on Saturday, and also on 2 July, when ASLEF will also be organising the drivers striking in Ipswich. But this is something they have got used to—constant disruption at the weekends in Ipswich. Recently, we had six weekends in a row where we had replacement bus services. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that weekend services should not be an afterthought, but are increasingly becoming more important?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I caught Mick Lynch, the leader of the RMT, on TV at his press conference after he walked out of the talks, saying that there is no need for any reductions or changes because, on the basis of last week’s figures, 90% of the passengers had come back. That is completely wrong. Those numbers are not accurate; a fifth of the passengers are still missing. However, there are the occasional lines and the occasional times when 90%-plus have come back, and they tend to be at the weekends. It tends to be on the Saturday and Sunday services, and is all the more reason why we need a seven-day railway, like any other business. We need to be able to run it on a Sunday, because compared with 1919, when these rules were put in place, the world has changed.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
My constituents will not be able to use Merseyrail trains tomorrow, but not because there is a strike at Merseyrail. There is no strike because Labour-run Liverpool city region has met the rail unions and avoided strikes at Merseyrail. However, there still will not be any trains in Merseyside because this Conservative Transport Secretary is responsible for Network Rail, where there is a strike, and he has refused to meet the unions for months. Labour has found a way to resolve potential disputes in Wales and in Merseyside, so what is it about this Transport Secretary that prevents him from finding solutions and stopping these strikes?
Grant Shapps
The hon. Member may want to reflect the same question to the Mayor of London, I suppose, for the same reasons. I am delighted that Merseyrail has been able to do its thing. I do hope that he will now join me—will he join me?—in condemning the strikes, because I think that would have real weight from the Labour and unions party, but the Opposition will not do it, will they? They will not condemn these strikes, and millions of people up and down this country have taken note.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree with me that Labour Members who refuse to condemn these strikes have no regard for the potential effect on the exam results of children taking GCSEs and A-levels up and down the country? Both the AQA and Edexcel—both well-known exam boards—have confirmed that they will not allow the strikes or their impact to be used as grounds for appeal for students who arrive late or perhaps are unable to arrive at all. Given the experience that schoolchildren in this country have had over the last two years, which has been the worst in our lifetimes, does the Secretary of State agree that it is utterly reprehensible for all sides of this House not to be condemning these rail strikes absolutely?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend puts it brilliantly, and she is absolutely right. It is actually callous. That is what it is. I have a daughter who is taking an exam on Thursday. Thursday is a strike day, and she will now go in by car. I can see that the stress is already building on her, because she is now worried about getting there. Yet the Opposition have nothing to say on the subject. They refuse to condemn the strikes. My hon. Friend is right: it is a callous approach.
Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)
The Secretary of State came into the Chamber with confected rage about workers, comparing them with ’70s workers. I do not know how old he was when the Thatcher anti-unions laws came in, but they are what the unions are working under. They are holding up their obligations under the law as it is. He is ultimately responsible for the rail network across the UK, so why does he not get around the table and deal with that?
Grant Shapps
First, I assure the hon. Gentleman that it is anything but confected rage when I see what is happening not just to my daughter and others taking exams but to hard-pressed people across the country who cannot get to their jobs as well as veterans who want to go and celebrate. Secondly, will he join me in condemning the strikes?
Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con)
Tomorrow, as Kellogg’s is in my constituency, I was due to host its breakfast club awards in Parliament to honour the 5,000 schools and their teachers who diligently run Kellogg’s breakfast clubs, which aim to tackle food insecurity. Thanks to the strike, the awards have been cancelled. Does my right hon. Friend agree that by striking for more, the RMT takes away from the many?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and she gives another example of how not condemning the strikes is being part of the problem. People must be prepared to stand up for what they believe in. If they want school trips, companies doing corporate social responsibility and people to be able to visit Parliament—all those different activities—they have to be on the side of people using the railway, and they have to condemn the strikes.
Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)
It is disgusting how the Secretary of State and the Government have smeared and continue to smear ordinary, hard-working, decent people such as railway cleaners, safety operatives and ticket staff who just want to keep their jobs and get a decent, fair pay rise. Does it not go to show which side the Government are on when they seek to slash workers’ pay while the train companies continue to make hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds in profits?
Grant Shapps
I was just checking whether the hon. Member is repeating the RMT’s handout, because what he says is factually untrue in the same way as a series of things that the RMT and Mick Lynch said on television and at the press conference this afternoon. One of the untruths is that anybody is trying to cut anyone’s pay. That, I am afraid, is being propagated by Opposition Front Benchers, who try to suggest that this is somehow like P&O. That is not true. We are putting salaries up. We want people to earn decent wages for decent days of work. We just need to get the reform so that we are not stuck in the 1970s on a railway that is having to recover from coronavirus.
Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con)
These strikes will cause untold harm to businesses, students and vulnerable people who have lived through some of the toughest of the last two years. Considering the huge sums of money that the RMT donates to the Labour party, does the Secretary of State agree that Labour should publish a table of donor receipts so that constituents can lodge a claim for their lost wages from Labour party coffers or from the extortionate union salaries?
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
In generations past, the railway industry played a major part in developing seaside resorts such as Cleethorpes. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, were these damaging strikes to continue, all they would succeed in doing is damaging many small businesses in communities such as mine? Will he do all that he can to ensure that working people can get to work on the trains?
Grant Shapps
This is the great irony: the people whom the strike will hurt the most are not the white-collar workers who will sit behind their computers using Zoom and Microsoft Teams but the people trying to support tourist industries in places such as Cleethorpes—people trying to run bed and breakfasts—and people trying to get to work to do their jobs, and often they can least afford to lose a day’s work. However, they will lose not one day’s but at least three days’ work, and there will be chaos on the other days of this week. It is a disgrace, and the Opposition cannot find their way to condemning it, which is disgraceful, too.
Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)
The trade unions decided to go on strike without even knowing what the industry was offering on pay and conditions. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that exposes the strikes for exactly what they are: political game playing from the Labour party and its trade union paymasters, without a second thought for the hard-working travelling British public?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is exactly right. He has seen through it. The leader, Mick Lynch, said that he is “nostalgic” for the union power of the ’70s, and that is exactly what they are driving for. As my hon. Friend rightly points out, Mick Lynch called his members out on strike, telling them that it was about getting a pay increase, but not telling them that they would already be getting a pay increase because the pay freeze had ended.
Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con)
The Labour party often says that it represents working people, but having taken £100 million from trade unions, and having failed to condemn the strikes, does the Labour party really represent misery and chaos?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This statement has been running for an hour, and we still have not heard the four simple words, “We condemn the strikes.”
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con)
This strike is a real kick in the teeth for hard-working taxpayers, who have dug deep over the past 18 months to keep this industry alive. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Labour party—the spineless party opposite—should grow a backbone and condemn these strikes?
Grant Shapps
That is an appropriate place to end. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. People have dug deep—that is exactly what they have done; it was £600 per household. People are furious. They paid out that money to make sure that nobody lost their jobs, and what thanks have they got? Where is the reward? Where is the “thank you” for keeping the railway going? It is a strike that will put people out of pay and hit people’s pockets once again, and Labour Members cannot even find their way to say, “We condemn the strikes.” It is a disgrace.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I thank the Secretary of State and all Members who took part in that item of business.
Rail Strikes
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
I beg to move,
That this House recognises the vital role of the railways in supporting people and businesses across the UK every day; condemns the decision of the rail unions to hold three days of strikes; believes those strikes will adversely affect students taking examinations, have an unacceptable effect on working people and a negative effect on the economy; and calls on the rail unions to reconsider their strike action and continue discussions with the industry.
The railway is one of the nation’s greatest legacies. The industrial revolution was forged upon it, and for two centuries it has been the means by which we have connected north and south, east and west. It is a proud part of our history, but the truth is that the railways in this country have fallen behind the times. When I became Transport Secretary three years ago, it was clear that our railways were expensive, inefficient, fragmented, unaccountable and desperately in need of modernising and reform. There were delays to upgrades, collapsing franchises and busy lines operating at the very peak of, and sometimes beyond, their capacity, suffering overcrowding and delays. Some working practices had not changed for decades. As a result, we have a railway today that is struggling to keep pace with modern living, particularly in the wake of the pandemic. Our railways need a new direction.
Office workers are working from home more often and the railway has lost around a fifth of its passengers, and also a fifth of its income. The Government kept the railway running when most passengers stayed at home. We kept trains available for key workers and protected the brilliant railway workers who managed the track and ran the trains. So this Government have stepped in. We put our money where our mouth is and we committed £16 billion to support the railways through covid. That is taxpayers’ money, and it is the equivalent of £600 for every household in this country. Put another way, it is the equivalent to £160,000 per rail worker in this country. As a result, the trains continued to operate, the industry survived and not a single railway worker had to be furloughed or lost their job—not one. We stepped up, but the honest truth is that this level of subsidy—which, let us not forget, is not the Government’s money but the taxpayer’s—simply cannot continue forever. If our railways are to thrive, things must change.
As I see it, there are four ways to bring about that change. First, we could continue to attempt to pump billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money into the system in the same unsustainable way we have been doing for the last two years, but that would take money away from the NHS and schools. Secondly, we could ramp up fares, but that would price working people off our railways completely. Thirdly, we could cut services and lines, emulating those sweeping cuts made by Dr Beeching in the 1960s, making it harder for people to access our railways. I do not support any of those options, which leaves us with the fourth option: modernise the railways, making them more productive and getting the industry off taxpayer-funded life support.
Make no mistake, as a Government we profoundly believe in our railways, which is why we have reopened abandoned routes and electrified thousands of miles of lines—not just the 63 miles that Labour managed to electrify over 13 years. It is why we have got behind projects such as High Speed 2, the Elizabeth line and Northern Powerhouse Rail, and rolled out contactless to 900 more stations and digital signalling across the network. And it is why we are transforming the industry through Great British Railways, ending the fragmentation and putting passengers first, but we need the industry to help with that transformation.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
The Secretary of State rightly says that billions were pumped into the railways during the covid pandemic. That money kept the system going, and a lot of people worked very hard to keep it going. The train operating companies were preserved and supported, and they did very well during that period, as did many others in the private sector. Why is he now punishing the people who kept the railway system working, and who do all the difficult jobs on the railways, with job losses, inadequate pay and a loss of morale? Should he not talk to their representative unions about the real situation on the railways and work with them to ensure we have an effective, efficient and secure rail system for the future?
Grant Shapps
I pay tribute to the workers on the railway who kept things running, with a lot of taxpayers’ cash, during the pandemic. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about that, but he talks about inadequate pay. I remind him and the House that the median salary for a train driver is £59,000, compared with £31,000 for a nurse and £21,000 for a care worker. [Hon. Members: “That’s the train drivers!”] The median salary for the rail sector is £44,000, which is significantly above the median salary in the country. What is more, salaries in the rail sector went up much faster over the last 10 years than in the rest of the country—a 39% increase for train drivers, compared with 7% for police officers and 16% for nurses. It is a good package, and we need to get the railways functioning for everybody in this country.
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con)
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that, coming out of the pandemic, the railways need to be modernised. Is it not extraordinary that, just as we are seeing confidence return, it will be destroyed by these strikes? Does he agree that this is exactly the wrong time, for both our economy and our railways, for these strikes to be happening?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. These discussions were under way when, suddenly, the union decided to ballot its members, incorrectly telling them that a strike would get them off the pay freeze. Nearly every part of the public sector experienced a pay freeze and, in any case, it is coming to an end. These pointless, counterproductive strikes should never have been called, and the Labour party should recognise that fact.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
Precisely because of the potential disruption, and instead of calling today’s debate, should the Secretary of State not be taking action to try to resolve these disputes? When did he last meet industry leaders and trade unions to try to get that resolution? Has he had a discussion about bringing in ACAS to resolve this dispute? If he has not, will he commit to doing so now?
Grant Shapps
I hear what the hon. Lady says. The Leader of the Opposition claims to care deeply about this issue, yet he is not with us today. [Hon. Members: “Where is the Prime Minister?”] The Prime Minister has already said exactly where he is on this issue, but the Leader of the Opposition cannot find his way to the Front Bench when it really matters and when it comes to standing up for working people, Where is he?
The leader of the RMT, Mick Lynch, said only last month, “I do not negotiate with a Tory Government.” He does not want to meet us. That is the reality of the situation.
Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)
There have been 52 days of tube strikes since Sadiq Khan was elected Mayor of London, even though he was elected on a promise of zero strikes. He has also said:
“Strikes are ultimately a sign of failure.”
Does the Secretary of State agree that Londoners deserve better? Does he agree that any Opposition Member who backs these strikes is punishing my constituents and my constituents’ businesses? [Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. It will become impossible to hear what people are saying if this becomes a shouting match. Perhaps we could take the temperature down a little.
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend the Member for Kensington (Felicity Buchan) is absolutely right. We provided £5 billion to Transport for London, and we have not seen the required level of savings. TfL is behind on providing those savings. There has to be a fair balance between taxpayers nationwide and what happens in London, but that has not stopped the RMT striking in London, which will stop Londoners getting to work. We are locked into an atmosphere in which, before the RMT even talks, negotiates or listens to an offer, it goes for a strike ballot.
Several hon. Members rose—
Grant Shapps
I will make a little progress before taking further interventions.
We need the industry to help with this transformation. We cannot ignore working practices that are stuck 50 or even 100 years in the past. A modern railway needs to run seven days a week. Right now, too many operators are left short at the weekend, which leaves passengers with substandard services. We cannot continue increasing pay on the railways far above the pay for nurses, teachers, police officers and care workers. We cannot continue with the absurd situation where workers can restart their 20-minute break if a manager dares to say “Good morning” at minute 19. That is insane. We have to change the system, as we cannot continue to fund such practices from the public purse.
Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con)
My right hon. Friend is making a very profound speech—[Interruption.] The Opposition might not like it, but he is.
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the reason there is no chorus from the Opposition condemning these strikes is that the RMT is pouring hundreds of thousands of pounds, if not millions, into the Labour party? [Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. We need to be very careful not to descend into insults.
Grant Shapps
I think my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Chris Loder) is a former union member, possibly even a former RMT member. He worked on the railways, so he knows what he is talking about. Madam Deputy Speaker has asked us to stick to the facts, so let us do that.
My hon. Friend is right to say that the RMT has donated almost £250,000 to the Labour party and constituency Labour parties over the last 10 years. For the fullness of the record, it is also worth pointing out that the Electoral Commission registered more than £100 million of trade union donations to the Labour party and CLPs over the same 10-year period. Those are the facts of the matter.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
My understanding is that the RMT is not affiliated with the Labour party, and I say that as an SNP Member.
We have the strictest trade union laws in Europe, and the thresholds have been easily surpassed in this particular ballot. What discussions is the Secretary of State facilitating between the RMT and the employers to resolve this issue?
Grant Shapps
First, it will interest the House to know—this is in direct answer to the question—that the negotiations and talks are going on almost every day.
Grant Shapps
This is Labour’s level of understanding. There is a Network Rail company that runs the infrastructure—[Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. We need to hear the answer.
Grant Shapps
Network Rail runs the infrastructure and 14 train operating companies are the employers, and they are meeting on a daily basis. But that has not prevented the unions from striking. That has not stopped the leader of the RMT saying that he would refuse to meet us. So we cannot have this every way.
Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
As my right hon. Friend said, billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money was put into the railway industry and it kept almost everybody in employment. In my constituency, many businesses survive by servicing the footfall through the stations. Because these businesses employed staff and they were people’s own companies, they were not capable of getting the loans and grants that were in place, because they had to keep the company alive and keep the people they employed. So what does he think their reaction is to hearing about more public money spent on the railways, on top of the £16 billion, when they are struggling to get their businesses back on track? This strike will make it even worse for them.
Grant Shapps
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to point that out. Just as the railways and the country are recovering—after two years of being locked down, with many of our constituents having lost their jobs and businesses while coronavirus was going on, without the kind of £16 billion of protection that the railways have enjoyed—now is not the time to strike.
Several hon. Members rose—
Grant Shapps
I will make a little more progress and then I will take a couple more interventions.
That brings me to the motion. Instead of having proper negotiations with the train companies and Network Rail, the RMT and other railway unions have leapt straight for the lever marked “strikes and mass disruption”. Just as the industry is beginning to recover from the pandemic and people were starting to be able to travel once again, the last thing we need now is to alienate passengers who are returning to the network. The unions do not seem to recognise that many commuters who before covid had no option but to take the train now have the option not to travel at all. Say goodbye to them and we really will be in danger of losing the jobs of thousands of rail workers.
Several hon. Members rose—
Grant Shapps
Again, I will make a little progress. Of course for others who have no option but to travel, the strikes will mean huge disruption. They will mean thousands of people not being able to get to work, some of whom might lose their jobs and be added to the list of those who did during covid. These strikes will mean families losing money; the economy being dented by tens of millions of pounds every day, as businesses lose customers; children unable to get to their exams; and patients unable to get to hospitals.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
The question was raised as to whether the Secretary of State or the Government had met the RMT, and he basically said, “Let the negotiations go”. I cannot recall the exact phrase he used. Mick Lynch, the general secretary of the RMT, has written to him today, “I am writing to seek an urgent meeting with the Government, without any preconditions, to discuss the national rail disputes prior to the planned strike action next week, and I would be grateful if this could be arranged without delay.” Will he respond—[Interruption.] We are trying to resolve this matter. Will he respond immediately to Mick Lynch, positively, that he will meet the union now?
Grant Shapps
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I know that it is probably on his record, but for the clarity of this debate let me note that he has £25,000 from the RMT. I say that merely in order to have this conversation with all that information being before the public. If this is a change of heart from Mick Lynch, I welcome it. As I said, just a month ago he said that he would not meet “a Tory Government”. Ministers have and do have meetings with him, but these negotiations are a matter between the employer and the union. The employer is meeting the union every single day, and that is the best way to get this resolved.
Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)
Before the previous intervention, my right hon. Friend was touching on the fact that many workers will not be able to get to work because of these strikes. Does he recognise that someone on the minimum wage will lose £160 over the course of these three days of strikes? Should that not be the cause for the Labour party to condemn the strikes today?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is inexplicable how those in the party who style themselves as the workers’ party do not seem to care about the fact that anyone who is trying to get anywhere will lose pay. It is not just about them; it is about people trying to get to the 17 public examinations that will be disrupted. Kids doing A-levels and GCSEs will not be able to get to them. People will not be able to get to their hospital appointments. This is a reckless, unnecessary strike and it should be called off right now.
Dame Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for the excellent speech he is making. He talked about the people who are going to be affected by this strike, and in my constituency that will be contract workers who cannot work at home and young people who are having to use the trains to get to college to take their A-levels. Is it not irresponsible of the unions to be timing strikes in the middle of A-level exams, when so many of our young people rely on trains to get to college?
Grant Shapps
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Thousands of children are taking those 17 public exams, including my daughter, whose transport to get to the exams will be complicated by this strike. It is surprising that there seems, from the noises from Members opposite, to be so little care and compassion about this issue. It is absolutely extraordinary. [Interruption.] This red herring that the unions have not had anybody to talk to is complete and utter nonsense. They are talking to the employers and they did not care about those discussions—they just called the strikes instead. That is what they did.
This is why the Government’s motion calls on the House to condemn the unions for their unnecessary actions. It is why we demand that they get to the negotiating table and work in good faith with the train companies to find the solutions that secure the future of the industry. I hope that these common-sense principles will prevail today. I hope that everybody can agree with that, but I am not sure, given the performance so far, that we are going to see it.
James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)
Given that the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, appears not to have publicly condemned these strikes, does my right hon. Friend appreciate that Sadiq Khan might be encouraged to waive the ULEZ—ultra low emissions zone—and the congestion charge for motorists who are now having to come into London? Many of my constituents rely on the trains, and this is just another cost on hard-working families.
Grant Shapps
Every possible alleviation that can be made should be made. I have not seen that particular proposal, but obviously the Mayor will need to look at it. It is extraordinary that this whole House would not want to stand up for hard-working people everywhere and would not want to ensure that people are able to get to their work and job, and that their livelihoods are not damaged.
Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)
Schoolchildren taking their GCSEs and A-levels have been mentioned. For the past two years, children have had to go through unprecedented times. They are in the process of going through exams that have been more stressful than those for any other generation, because of the pandemic. It is absolutely cruel that everybody in this House is not condemning the timing of these strikes and the strikes happening, because those poor children have gone through enough in the past two years and now they are having to suffer in the last weeks of their GCSEs.
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend has nailed it. It is completely unfair, it is totally the wrong timing. It should not be happening and the whole House would appreciate Labour Members saying more about it, but they cannot say more about it, because they are divided on the subject. The shadow Levelling Up Secretary says that Labour stands united with those who bring the chaos upon our communities. The shadow Health Secretary, supposedly a rising star, although he is not on the Front Bench today because he does not want to be associated with this, even goes so far as to say that if he was given a chance, he would join the strikes. The shadow Transport Secretary, styling herself today as the shadow Secretary of State for strikes, refuses to condemn the RMT’s plan, which is going to cripple our railways.
What has happened to the Leader of the Opposition? He is not here. What is he saying about this? The Prime Minister has set out his position very clearly; I have not heard the Leader of the Opposition set out his position yet. I do not know whether anyone else has spotted him. He is not here today. Presumably, he has been standing up to his shadow Cabinet and defending the people whose lives will be disrupted by the strike. That is where one would expect him to be, but no. He has been playing a game of real-life Twister—his position hopelessly contorted, with one foot in the RMT camp and the other goodness knows where, stretching credibility. Perhaps it is a position that he thinks will appear boring to the shadow Cabinet. In fact, what he is doing is stretching the patience of the British public by not saying where he stands.
Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)
I have been trying persistently to get the Secretary of State’s attention so that he would give way, but he wants to play politics throughout. He talks about wanting to protect hard-working people like those in London, so why will he not commit to meeting the Mayor of London to get a proper sustainable funding plan for Transport for London so that people can use the transport network and get to work?
Grant Shapps
I am pleased that I have now taken the hon. Lady’s intervention. This is a debate about the national strikes, rather than the future funding of TfL, but since she asks, we have already spent £5 billion supporting TfL. If we had done what the Mayor had asked me to do two years ago, which was to come up with a long-term settlement then, he would have been out of money a long time ago. He should be pleased we did not settle for that.
As I say, this debate is about the strikes that will take place next week. Labour Members should get behind the rest of the country and convince their union friends, who I know give them millions of pounds, that the strike is not in the interests of the British public. Although the Labour party is bankrolled by the unions, we want it to stand up to the union barons, rather than bringing the railways to their knees. The Labour leader might claim to be different, but if you scratch the surface, it is the same old Labour.
Today, the Labour party needs to join the Government and vote for the motion. It needs to put people above its party coffers. It needs to vote to condemn the unions for their irresponsible actions. It needs to stand with hard-working people everywhere, who just want to get on with their lives after two years of considerable disruption.
James Daly (Bury North) (Con)
Thousands upon thousands of self-employed people throughout the country will not be able to earn a penny over the period of the strike. It will cripple the economy and the pockets of our constituents throughout the country. Will my right hon. Friend say how much the general secretary of the RMT will lose of his £124,000 in pay and benefits for crippling the economy of this country?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is right to point that out. If I am honest, I am more worried about the rail card that the general secretary gets with his job than about his salary, because he will not be able to use it during the strike. I imagine that will be a problem for him.
Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) (Con)
Prior to coming here, I was a rail commuter. I stood on platform 14 of Manchester Piccadilly every day, Monday to Friday. That is why I am so frustrated that our Mayor has said absolutely nothing about the strikes and that a fellow Greater Manchester MP is enthusiastically backing them. Has my right hon. Friend consulted any of the Labour of MPs who have taken donations from the RMT about whether they will donate to their constituents on low incomes who will not be able to afford to get to work?
Grant Shapps
My rail commuting friend makes an excellent point. Every person in this country will want to know and understand how MPs have voted in this place tonight. It matters to them and their families, and it matters for their jobs.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
Is it not the reality that the person who most wants this strike to go ahead is the Prime Minister?
Grant Shapps
No.
The choice is clear: we can stick with the same old failed model, which makes the railways uncompetitive and jeopardises thousands of jobs as people abandon the rail network, perhaps forever, or we can come together to overhaul our railway industry, build a service that people want to use and give the railways a bright future. It is time for the unions to call off these absurd strikes. Strikes should be the last resort, not the first resort. If the unions will not stop, we as Members of Parliament, whose constituents rely on the railways for their work, to see their families, to get on and to use public services, must speak with one voice. People throughout the land will look to this House today to see how their Members of Parliament vote.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. It is unfortunate that he has misjudged the tone of this dispute. We are talking about—[Interruption.] Shh. We are talking about the livelihoods of public servants and about their job security. If he was serious about resolving this dispute, not only would he insist on coming to the table; he would be open to listening to what the unions have to say. Why won’t he?
Grant Shapps
I would welcome guidance on a very serious point, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought that Members had to point to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests when they speak in this House. I believe that the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) has received a £3,000 donation from the RMT. Today’s vote is specifically about the RMT and its strike, so I would welcome any guidance on that matter.
I do not agree with the hon. Lady about the tone of all this. It is incredibly important that people are getting around the table and talking. Talks have been going on. Unfortunately, even though talks were going on, the unions sold a strike to their members on false pretences: on the basis that there would be no pay rise, when in fact there was always going to be a pay rise because the public pay freeze had come to an end.
I think that now is the time for this House to come together to show that we support hard-working commuters, key workers, the public and the pupils we have spoken about who are taking their A-levels and GCSEs, each of whom will be unable to go about their business. Or will Labour Members vote with their union baron friends, as we were just hearing, in favour of these reckless, unnecessary, self-defeating, premature strikes? Tonight, the voting record of each and every one of us will be on display. The record will show that those on the Government Benches stood united in favour of the people we represent. The question is, where do that lot stand? I commend the motion to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Before I call the shadow Secretary of State, I need to say that there is likely to be a time limit for Back Benchers. It will start at five minutes, but it may well be taken down further.
Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail: Public Consultation
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 10 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
Today, my department launches a public consultation on the primary legislative changes required to deliver structural reform of our railways. This follows publication of the Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail in May 2021, which heralded the start of the biggest transformation of Great Britain’s railways in three decades, and the announcement in the Queen’s Speech on 10 May 2022 of the introduction of a transport Bill to Parliament which will modernise rail services, put passengers and freight customers first, deliver for taxpayers and combine the best of the public and private sectors.
The Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail highlighted the need for change. It was clear that our railways had become fragmented, the system was complicated, and passengers deserved better. This, alongside spiralling costs, delays to upgrades and commercial failures, pointed to a railway in need of fundamental reform. Getting this right means that we can ensure this historic industry delivers for its users, setting it on a more sustainable and secure footing. It also means delivering a stronger, more levelled up and increasingly green economy, of which the railways are a crucial part.
Many of the commitments set out in the plan for rail do not require legislation in order to be taken forward, and the Government are already working in close partnership with the rail industry to deliver rapid improvements for passengers and freight customers. For example, new flexible season tickets went on sale last summer and we continue to work with train operators to roll out digital ticketing to make journeys easier. We are also undertaking a comprehensive accessibility audit of stations across Great Britain, continuing to cut the costs and time of infrastructure work through Project SPEED and developing a 30-year whole industry strategic plan.
In addition to this, we have launched the Great British Railways Transition Team, under the leadership of Andrew Haines, to drive forward reforms and develop the model for a new arm’s-length body, Great British Railways, including its initial structure, leadership and people. GBRTT is focused on establishing a new, customer-focused industry culture, driving revenue recovery efforts and establishing an interim strategic freight unit to work collaboratively with the sector, ensuring an immediate focus on delivery of the Government’s ambitions for rail freight. GBRTT is also currently overseeing a competition for the location of a national headquarters for Great British Railways, to be based outside of London, in line with this Government’s commitment to levelling up.
However, primary legislation is required to deliver key elements of structural reform set out in the plan for rail. This includes providing Great British Railways with the powers and authority it needs to act as the single guiding mind for the railways, ending years of fragmentation. The consultation launched today seeks views of all those with an interest in our railways, to help shape these reforms.
The consultation is focused across three key areas as outlined below.
The first is on the establishment of Great British Railways, including its proposed functions and duties and how we propose to legislate and work with stakeholders to enable Great British Railways to become the single guiding mind for the railways.
The second is focused on how we will ensure clear accountabilities in the rail sector through a new governance framework, including the regulator’s role in providing independent scrutiny and challenge.
The third centres on reform of wider industry structures and processes that are needed to deliver transformation of the railways and a new industry culture, including a new passenger champion role for transport focus and proposals for open data sharing.
Great British Railways is key to delivering a customer-focused railway. The plans outlined in this consultation will deliver a rail system that is the backbone of a cleaner, greener public transport system, offering passengers and freight customers a better deal and greater value for money for taxpayers. The private sector has played an integral role in improving our railways over the past 25 years; these plans are designed to take the best of the private sector and fuse it with a single guiding mind that can drive benefits and efficiencies across the system as a whole.
I hope that all those with an interest in our railways will find the time to participate and share their views through this consultation. Sharing your views will help to ensure the legislative changes that we enact will deliver the vision set out in the plan for rail, securing our railways so that they are able to flourish into the future and as we approach their bicentenary in 2025.
[HCWS89]
Union Connectivity Review: Update
Grant Shapps Excerpts(1 year, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
The UK Government are grateful to Sir Peter Hendy for his Union connectivity review. We are considering his recommendations carefully, and have been working with the Scottish Government, Welsh Government, Northern Ireland Executive and key stakeholders, to identify the solutions that work best for the people of the UK. We expect to publish the UK Government’s response later this year.
Several of the Union connectivity review recommendations concern ongoing projects, which may be impacted by the Union connectivity review response. The A1 Morpeth to Ellingham scheme is one such case, as it relates to Sir Peter’s recommendation for a multimodal study of the east coast corridor to identify the best opportunities for improvement. We therefore propose to consider how best to align the future progression of the scheme with our consideration of this recommendation and the outcome of any study that may be proposed.
[HCWS62]
P&O Ferries
Grant Shapps Excerpts(2 years, 1 month ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a statement on P&O Ferries.
Last week, I stood at this Dispatch Box to address the House on the shameful sacking of 800 seafarers by P&O Ferries. No British worker should be treated in this way, devoid of dignity and respect. Our maritime workers, who supported this country during the pandemic with great dedication and sacrifice, deserved far better than to be dismissed via a pre-recorded Zoom in favour of cheaper overseas labour.
In response, we urged P&O Ferries to reconsider. Those calls have fallen on deaf ears. Instead, chief executive Peter Hebblethwaite—in front of Parliament, no less—set out how he deliberately broke the law and, in an act of breathtaking indifference, suggested he would do the same thing again.
The failure of P&O Ferries to see reason, to recognise the public anger and to do the right thing by its staff has left the Government with no choice. Today, I am announcing a package of nine measures that will force it to fundamentally rethink its decision and send a clear message to the maritime industry that we will not allow this to happen again: that where new laws are needed, we will create them, that where legal loopholes are cynically exploited, we will close them, and that where employment rights are too weak, we will strengthen them.
I start with the enforcement action we are taking. Far too many irregularities exist between those who work at sea and those who work on land. Even where workers have rights, they are not always enforced. The first measure I can announce is that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will be dedicating significant resource to checking that all UK ferry operators are compliant with the national minimum wage—no ifs, no buts.
Secondly, I have asked the Maritime and Coastguard Agency to review its enforcement policies, checking they are fit for purpose, both now and into the future. The House will recall that the MCA is already, at my request, carrying out inspections of P&O’s ferries. So far two ships, the European Causeway and the Pride of Kent, have been detained after failing safety inspections. I will not compromise the safety of any vessel, and P&O will not be able to rush new crews through training and expect those ships to sail. That work is ongoing.
Thirdly, we will take action to prevent employers who have not made reasonable efforts to reach agreement through consultation, from using fire and rehire tactics. A new statutory code will allow a court or employment tribunal to take the manner of dismissal into account and, if an employer fails to comply with the code, to impose a 25% uplift to a worker’s compensation.
Fourthly, I have made no secret of my view that P&O Ferries’ boss Peter Hebblethwaite should resign. He set out to break the law and boasted about it to Parliament. I have written to the chief executive officer of the Insolvency Service, conveying my firm belief that Peter Hebblethwaite is unfit to lead a British company, and have asked it to consider his disqualification. The Insolvency Service has the legal powers to pursue complaints where a company has engaged in “sharp practice”. Surely the whole House agrees that nothing could be sharper than dismissing 800 staff and deliberately breaking the law while doing so. It is, of course, for the Insolvency Service to decide what happens next, but in taking this step I want to ensure that such outrageous behaviour is challenged.
It is a hard truth that those working at sea do not enjoy the same benefits as those working on land, which brings me to the fifth element of the package today: a renewed focus on the training and welfare elements of our flagship maritime strategy. We are already investing £30 million through the maritime training fund to grow our seafarer population, but I will go further, pursuing worldwide agreements at the International Labour Organisation. We will push for a common set of principles to support maritime workers, including an international minimum wage, a global framework for maritime training, and skills and tools to support seafarer mental health.
Sixthly, we know that P&O Ferries exploited a loophole, flagging its vessels in Cyprus to escape UK laws. We will take action on that too. From next week, our reforms to tonnage tax will come into effect, meaning that maritime businesses set up in the UK will have unnecessary red tape removed, as well as any provisions from the EU that are no longer required. By doing so, we will increasing the attractiveness of UK flagging and bring more ships under our control, thereby protecting the welfare of seafarers.
Much of the maritime sector is governed by international laws, obligations and treaties. That means that we cannot hope to solve all these problems alone. The seventh plank of our package today is therefore to engage with our international partners. This week, I have contacted my counterparts in France, Denmark, the Netherlands, Ireland and Germany to discuss the idea that maritime workers on direct routes between our countries should receive a minimum wage. I am delighted to say that the response, particularly from the French Minister for Transport, has already been positive. I will now work quickly with my counterparts to explore the creation of minimum wage corridors between our nations, and we will also ask unions and operators to agree common levels of seafarer protection on those routes.
I have set out how we will step up enforcement, how we will support the workforce in the long term, how we will get more vessels under the British flag, and how we are working with international partners to create minimum wage corridors, but I know the House is expecting legislative changes, too. Although we had originally intended to come to the Chamber today to announce changes to the National Minimum Wage Act 1998, after seeking expert maritime legal advice it has become clear that that will not be possible. The issue is that maritime law is governed by international conventions that would too easily override changes to domestic laws. However, I will not let that stop us. Seafarers deserve the same wage certainty as onshore workers. They deserve to be safe in the knowledge that they will not be undercut at a moment’s notice by cheaper overseas labour. Today, we are providing that certainty.
I can announce to the House our eighth measure: our intention to give British ports new statutory powers to refuse access to regular ferry services that do not pay their crew the national minimum wage. We will achieve that through primary legislation to amend the Harbours Act 1964. It will mean that if companies such as P&O Ferries want to dock in ports such as Dover, Hull or Liverpool, they will have no choice but to comply. Crucially, that also means that P&O Ferries can derive no benefit from the action it has disgracefully taken. It has fired its workers to replace them with those who are paid below minimum wage but, as a result of this measure, that cynical attempt will fail. My message to P&O Ferries is this: “The game is up. Rehire those who want to return, and pay your workers—all your workers—a decent wage.”
The Government want to bring that legislation forward as quickly as possible, but it is important to get it right. We are legally bound to consult the sector on any changes and, unlike P&O, we take that consultation seriously. Legislative changes will not be possible overnight. To that end, I can announce the ninth and final measure we will be taking. Today I will write to all ports in the UK, explaining our intention to bring forward legislation as quickly as possible, but in the meantime instructing them not to wait. I want to see British ports refusing access to ferry companies that do not pay a fair wage as soon as is practical. They will have the full backing of the Government. I have also instructed the Maritime and Coastguard Agency to get behind that action, and it has indicated that it will do so.
This issue has united the whole House, and indeed the whole country, in anger at those responsible and in sympathy for those affected. We are a proudly pro-business Government, but we will never support those who treat workers with such callousness and disrespect as we have seen here. British workers are not expendable; they are the backbone of this country.
The robust package of measures announced today will give our maritime workers the rights they deserve, while destroying the supposed gains P&O Ferries hoped to obtain. It will send a clear message that those using British waters and British ports to ply their trade must accept British laws. I commend this statement to the House.
Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement, and for the briefing he gave me on these measures last week.
I know the whole House agrees that the action taken by P&O Ferries was beneath contempt. A sense of fair play and decency runs deep in this country—it is part of who we are—so the sight of a rogue employer who has made a mockery of the rule of law, trashed the reputation of a great British brand and upended the lives of 800 families saying that he would do it all again offends people deeply. The test, therefore, for this Government in the eyes of the country is simple: do not let them get away with it—because for too long, they have. The warning sirens have been sounding for years. P&O Ferries has been exploiting workers in plain sight. In this House, the Government were told repeatedly of seafarers on destitution wages, some earning just £1.74 an hour. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) warned:
“If the Government fail to act, how long will it be before we see the same thing happen…on other critical shipping lanes?”
The gate was left wide open, and P&O Ferries has sailed straight through it.
The steps announced by the Government, insisting on the bare minimum, cannot come a moment too soon. This is a move we warmly welcome, and which has our wholehearted support. However, can the Secretary of State confirm that under the harbour legislation he mentioned, the national minimum wage will apply on the entirety of all UK international routes, and not just in British waters, as P&O seemed to suggest yesterday? I very much welcome his action to instruct the Insolvency Service to consider the CEO’s disqualification. When will the Insolvency Service respond, so that the Business Secretary can seek an order for his disqualification in the courts?
Yesterday’s letter from P&O showed in black and white that regardless of the proposed legislation, it still intends to carry out its outrageous plan to sack 800 workers, to trample over the laws of this country, and to take an axe to the pay and conditions of these workers’ replacements and force through a 60% pay cut. This is, as the joint Select Committee was told last week, fire and rehire on steroids—and P&O Ferries must not get away with it. That is why the Government’s reluctance to use every tool at their disposal to force it to change course is bewildering. No prosecution has been brought, despite the Prime Minister's announcement last week, and the deadline to act to protect these workers is tomorrow. The Chancellor confirmed yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) that the review of the relationship with DP World has already concluded—and it will keep every single taxpayer-funded contract.
Even with these very welcome steps announced today, the Government still risk giving the green light to P&O and other exploitative employers. Will the Secretary of State now guarantee that he will prosecute, disqualify the directors, and suspend their lucrative contracts? If P&O continues to proceed with this unlawful action, and to risk safety, is it not time to suspend its licence to operate? Will he introduce powers to allow the Government to step in and stop any such illegal behaviour in future and force employers back to the negotiating table? Will he amend the Trade Union Act 2016 so that employees can seek unlimited punitive damages against such unlawful action in future?
P&O Ferries has written the blueprint for bad business the world over. It must know that there will be consequences, because this scandal extends well beyond P&O. It is the consequence of a decade in which an axe has been taken to workers’ rights. The balance has tipped far away from working people. Fire and rehire has become commonplace, and millions of people are thinking, “Will I be next?”
The measures announced yesterday by the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), show, I am afraid, that the Government still do not get it. The measures may mean extra compensation, but only after people have gone through a tribunal process that is beset with delays and backlogs—and this is a price that bad bosses have already shown they are prepared to pay. If Ministers mean what they say—if this is going to be a line in the sand—they will bring forward an emergency employment Bill straight after recess. No more half measures, no more excuses—they must ban fire and rehire for good. They will also guarantee that not a penny of public money will be handed out to companies that disregard workers’ rights, and will work with the RMT and Nautilus International to pursue a binding agreement on pay and conditions to end the race to the bottom that P&O is determined to lead.
We will work constructively with the Government on the measures announced today, but 13 days on from this scandalous act, key shipping routes are still suspended, 800 workers are still without their jobs, those responsible have no regrets, and time is almost out. The stakes could not be higher. To reverse this scandalous act, the actions of Ministers must now match their words.
Grant Shapps
I thank the hon. Lady because throughout this crisis she has been very proactive in getting in contact and providing additional ideas and thoughts, many of which have entered into this package. She has been, broadly speaking, pretty constructive, along with a number of other Members from across the House.
The hon. Lady asked about the extent of the intention behind these measures. They are for routes that ply their trade between Britain and our continental neighbours, which is why I mentioned the individuals that I have contacted in foreign Governments.
The hon. Lady asked about the speed of the Insolvency Service. It is of course independent, so we do not have direct control over that, but I very much hope that it will act appropriately quickly. She asked why the Government have not taken any court action. It is because the Government are not in a position to take court action; that is for the unions and for workers to do. We understand the limitations of that, which is why I described some of the items in the package that would address that.
The hon. Lady asked about P&O contracts. We have looked, and we have not identified any so far. In the spirit of co-operation with all Members of the House, and with her in particular, I should say that if anyone is aware of any contracts that we have yet to uncover, they should let us know. The only two found were historical, from during coronavirus.
The hon. Lady mentioned that the situation might be indicative of a wider issue with this Government’s approach towards employees. I gently mention that it was this Government who, in 2020, introduced the extension of the national minimum wage to seafarers on domestic routes. We did that, not any other Government. I seem to recall that in 2005, when Irish Ferries introduced the low-cost approach that, according to P&O, has forced its hand, a chap called Tony Blair used to stand at this Dispatch Box.
Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)
I not only welcome this package of measures but thank—I hope on behalf of the whole House—the Secretary of State for the leadership that he has shown. We now have real urgency on this. That is what we asked for, and that is what we have got. With regard to consultation rights, when P&O Ferries came before our Committee last Thursday, it said that it was basically buying out those rights from the workers because it could. Will he consider, in the longer term, a power of injunctive relief for the Insolvency Service, so that it can stop the actions of P&O Ferries, which has effectively audited our legislative book and found it wanting?
Grant Shapps
Yes, that is certainly something we are considering. I thank my hon. Friend for his work, and that of his Select Committee and the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, which brought the P&O boss here. I think it astonished the House but also the whole country to hear that testimony, which has directly led to the package that we have today, item No. 6 of which goes some way towards addressing my hon. Friend’s specific point.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
I, too, thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I genuinely welcome the action that he has outlined today, although the strength of his words must be followed by the strength and urgency of his actions. There are areas where I hope he can be persuaded to go further. However, I am pleased that those who perpetrated these shameful actions against P&O workers are being held to account and shown the consequences of their law-breaking.
As I have said to a few people in this House, I feared that there would be a delay to the national minimum wage measures due to international maritime labour laws. I commend the Secretary of State for trying to find a work-around, but perhaps he can give us more detail on that. In the meantime, will he indemnify ports for any action they may take against ferry operators?
The movement on fire and rehire is welcome, particularly given the work that I and many Members across the House have done in recent years. However—this is where I depart from the praise for the Secretary of State—as I have said to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Witney (Robert Courts), many British Airways workers have contacted me in the past few days asking this progressive, nay socialist, Transport Secretary whether British Airways workers were being threatened with fire and rehire. The Secretary of State’s statement says that the Government “will take action to prevent employers who have not made reasonable efforts to reach agreement through consultation from using fire and rehire tactics.” No threat of fire and rehire, whether followed by consultation or not, is reasonable. It must end, and now.
Where I am disappointed is with the tools available to tribunals and courts to enforce the new code. A 25% uplift in compensation is, as P&O has demonstrated, merely a cost to be factored in for unscrupulous employers with deep pockets, and it does not hit employers that simply do not pay their tribunal-mandated compensation. Can we instead see some real teeth to allow tribunals to deploy the full range of outcomes towards employers, including recommending reinstatement where possible? That would be a major deterrent to others considering fire and rehire.
The Chair of the Transport Committee, the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), and the Chair of the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee, the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) wrote jointly to the Secretary of State earlier this week. Among other things, they called for the prosecution of P&O, the removal of its licence to operate in the UK and a review of DP World’s involvement in the freeports project. We have heard, sadly, that the DP World review is complete, but what consideration is he giving to the remaining conclusions of the two Chairs?
I welcome the beefed-up role for the Maritime and Coastguard Agency in enforcing some of these new measures. However, the last financial year saw the MCA receive a real-terms cut in central Government funding. Will the Secretary of State make extra funds available to the MCA so that what he has announced today will actually happen on the ground, rather than it being great in principle but undeliverable in practice?
Grant Shapps
Briefly, I thank the hon. Gentleman. I mentioned that I will be working with the International Labour Organisation, but I will also be working with the International Maritime Organisation, which is headquartered globally in London, on making this a global move. Some of what he said will not apply, because once we have changed the Harbours Act 1964, it will outlaw the need to end up going to a tribunal on the 25% uplift and the rest of it. I will leave it there for brevity.
Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
I warmly welcome the strong package of measures announced today. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the behaviour of the directors of P&O is disgraceful, and they must be held to account? The Dover-Calais route must be operated to the highest safety standards, with decent pay and conditions and on a level playing field. Will he continue to work with me, as he has done since this disgraceful act occurred, to do everything possible to support the Dover-Calais sea corridor and the Dover community?
Grant Shapps
I thank my hon. Friend for her incredible input into this. In Dover, she is right at the frontline of any impacts when ferries are not running. Her contribution, assistance and guidance have been absolutely invaluable. I will absolutely step up to her asks on this. I stress, probably on behalf of the whole House, that in this House we find it unacceptable that someone would deliberately, knowingly and wantonly go out of their way to break the law in sacking staff. We will not take that lying down. The law will be changed and I am afraid that P&O Ferries, although as of last night it did not realise it, will have to U-turn.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
I call Ben Bradley—I mean Ben Bradshaw. I am so sorry.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
Don’t worry, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a common and embarrassing mistake—for the other one!
Will the Secretary of State explain in a bit more detail why he thinks he does not have the powers to seek an injunction to prevent this company from behaving deliberately, disgracefully and, as he just described, illegally?
Grant Shapps
I have taken a lot of legal advice in the last 10 days to two weeks, and we simply have not found the power to exist in the form that the right hon. Gentleman describes. Maritime law is complex and international in nature. We have looked through every possible solution, and the Harbours Act 1964 is the way to deliver this. In the meantime, we will have the Maritime and Coastguard Agency making sure that we can bring these benefits much sooner than through laws passed through this place.
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
It is clear that Peter Hebblethwaite has no intention of acting with honour, but I hope that this package of measures will at least give him pause for thought. I hear the calls for further action against the parent company, DP World. I gently point out to those saying so that it is not without consequence—my constituency is home to London Gateway, and hundreds of people are employed there as well—and I want them to act cautiously. However, I call on DP World, the parent company, to look closely at the actions of Peter Hebblethwaite, because he is damaging its reputation, its relationship with the Government and its relationship with me. Get him to do the right thing.
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the reputation of P&O Ferries being ripped to shreds in 14 days in a way that I cannot think of with any company in corporate history. It is important that its owners understand that they are welcome to invest in this country and create employment, but that we take employment law seriously. They need to understand that and deal with this P&O situation, otherwise that will not be smooth.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s statement today. It is one of the most substantial and significant statements I have heard in almost 21 years as a Member who has taken a close interest in matters of the merchant marine. I hope that this is the start of a very different practice from what we have seen in recent decades. One of the problems we have had over the years is that when successive Governments were introducing the tonnage tax and refining it, there was a link to training, but not enough of a link to post-training employment. That is the sort of thing that has to change. Protection has to be given not just to officers, but to ratings. When the Secretary of State is constructing the next round of the tonnage tax, will he listen first to the unions representing the ratings and the officers, and not just the shipping companies?
Grant Shapps
Needless to say, I am very grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s comments on this statement. It is a serious attempt to sort out something that internationally has not been satisfactory for a very long time, because of the global nature of shipping. He is absolutely right to zero in on the tonnage tax. As he knows, there will be an opening for the tonnage tax—from 4 April, I think—for the first time in many years. If we can get this right, we can use the tonnage tax not only to improve the industry, but to drive the right kind of behaviour. With more ships flagged under the British flag, we can lead—as we do as a maritime nation—with the IMO here, and use the tonnage tax to pull those ships along.
Damian Green (Ashford) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the package of measures he has announced, and I very much hope they are effective. One of the immediate effects of P&O’s disgraceful action has been massively to reduce the capacity of freight to go across the channel, and that has had the predictable knock-on effect of emergency measures being needed on the Kent motorway network, causing disturbance and some misery to my constituents and others across Kent. As well as these measures, does the Department have any proposals to mitigate the problems with cross-channel freight and therefore to mitigate the effects on the M20 and other roads in Kent?
Grant Shapps
I apologise to my right hon. Friend and other Kent MPs, because I appreciate that the situation with P&O has caused considerable disruption. We have put the moveable barrier in place. I spoke to the lead of the Kent Resilience Forum yesterday, and they have been reporting to me on its level of usage, because I do not want it to be there for no reason. It is being regularly used. A benefit from having put in that moveable barrier is that it no longer takes weeks to deploy and take away, but I am cognisant of the disturbance it creates for Members in the Kent area. I will ensure that we meet regularly with my right hon. Friend and other Members to provide updates on what we expect to happen next.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
I welcome the statement made by the Secretary of State today, and in particular his reference to international seafarers. I recognise that he spoke about minimum wage conditions on ferries, but he then went on to talk about international seafarers, who often face disgraceful, almost slave-like conditions of work on international transport. Will he commit to working with the International Transport Workers Federation of transport trade unions, as well as the ILO, to try to get rid of this scandal on a global scale? Obviously Britain can only play one part in that, but we can have a very big influence on changing the whole mood internationally.
Grant Shapps
The right hon. Gentleman is right to point out that this is an international issue. It is worth saying that during the pandemic, we got a UN resolution through to recognise seafarers as key workers. We repatriated 22,000 seafarers. I sent the MCA in to raid a ship that was in Tilbury docks, where I suspected international seafarers were being held at work, essentially against their will. That was successful and there were prosecutions. We have gone further today with the measures I have outlined, which I hope he will approve of, considering that they include working with the International Labour Organisation.
Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s robust statement in response to P&O’s appalling behaviour. I also welcome the work that he and his Department are doing with the Kent Resilience Forum to ensure that we keep motorway traffic moving through the county. Does he agree that it is important that the Maritime and Coastguard Agency continues to be robust and does not allow ships that are poorly crewed with unqualified crew members on board to cross the world’s busiest shipping lane?
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The second item that I announced backs up what has already been happening with the MCA looking at those ships carefully, and that will continue. We will not compromise safety in the sea lanes. We have seen what happens when compromises are made, and we do not want to see that repeated.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
I, too, welcome the Secretary of State’s work on this important issue and the urgency with which he has acted. I very much doubt, however, that when he writes to P&O, it will abide by his instruction not to allow ships to dock in Larne or Cairnryan where it owns the port and the boats and where it is acting illegally by giving workers less than the minimum wage.
The monopoly issue is important for Northern Ireland, however, because one of the ships is impounded and there is an absence of service. The port represents a strategic asset for Northern Ireland because nearly 50% of our trade comes through it, so businesses that operate in that port are not getting any revenue, workers are not getting any work and Northern Ireland’s supply issues are being affected. What action can the Secretary of State take with the company to try to restore the situation?
Grant Shapps
The right hon. Gentleman raises many important points. As he rightly points out, one of the ships has already been detained in Northern Ireland. Stena Line has been doing a great job to fill in some of the gap and I will ask other companies to assist where possible. If he does not mind, I ask him to meet again—I know he has already—with my hon. Friend the maritime Minister, because the specific issues relating to Northern Ireland will need a lot of care and attention over the coming days.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
Although I welcome the new measures that my right hon. Friend has brought to the House, what reassurance can he give that they will support companies such as Stena Line to grow jobs, particularly local jobs and local labour, so that the news is good for UK seafarers and for the UK flag?
Grant Shapps
The simple fact is that this package will finally ensure that the whole seafaring community is on a level playing field—or a level sea—when it comes to channel crossings and that there will be no advantage to Irish Ferries running a cut-price route or P&O Ferries trying to do the same. For Stena Line, DFDS and others, it will ensure that they can all operate and compete on a fair platform.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State says that P&O should reinstate every worker on their original terms and conditions, with which I completely agree, but he needs to take every action available to him to support the group of workers who have just been sacked, as what he announced today is largely about the future. Will he suspend or cancel P&O and DP World contracts, including the lucrative freeport contracts? That is how he will show them that the Government are really serious and how he will have the greatest chance of putting the pressure on them that will lead to the reinstatement of those workers.
Grant Shapps
I should point out that the workers involved, many of whom I have been speaking to, frankly do not want to go back and work for P&O Ferries and/or have already accepted jobs elsewhere. I think they will be looking for a change in that company before they rush back.
On the P&O contracts, we have not found any that exist. On the DP World issue that the hon. Gentleman refers to, I have seen figures quoted for the amount of money in a contract, but that is actually money that, by and large, goes to the local authority—I think that is the point that my hon. Friend the Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe) was making. It is for the local authority to then set out how the freeport operates. The hon. Gentleman should be in no doubt, however, that we will be keeping a close eye on that and increasing the pressure to ensure that the right thing happens with P&O.
Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement, which has clarified many technical points. It will be important to analyse how the cruise ship industry accesses British waters and to ensure that the critical infrastructure of freight transport is not allowed to be held hostage again, which is what P&O tried to do on its own terms.
On the point of ensuring that seafarers are being paid at least the minimum wage in our waters, how will that technically be done if they are not registered through HMRC in this country?
Grant Shapps
I should point out again that P&O Cruises is not in any way, shape or form related to what has happened here. It is the people at P&O Ferries who are very much in the dock. With the ferries, we will ensure that that policing takes place through HMRC and the work of the ports themselves.
Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab)
Awards for compensation in employment tribunals are notoriously low, with average awards for unfair dismissal at just £10,800. The Secretary of State has announced an uplift of 25%, but an extra £2,700 will not deter unscrupulous employers such as P&O. My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh), the shadow Transport Secretary, has called for unlimited punitive damages in circumstances such as these. Will he back those calls?
Grant Shapps
The simple answer, in this case, is that we want to stop it ever getting that far and we will do that by forcing such employers to pay the minimum wage in the first place. I should clarify that we are not against the idea that sometimes, unfortunately, redundancies occur. We know that and we saw it in the pandemic. We are pleased that, after the pandemic, unemployment is as low or lower than before. We understand that business has to change, but it is unacceptable to deliberately set out to break the law when it comes to consultations, and that is what we are focusing on. These nine measures will ensure that we do not get there in the first place and that more punitive measures are in place.
Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con)
I congratulate the Secretary of State on his excellent work and, particularly, the creative and robust approach that he has taken to closing the national minimum wage loophole, which makes this whole thing a complete waste of money for P&O. Can I press him further on what he said about future injunctive relief? Will he consider enlarging the powers of the High Court to order a mandatory 90-day consultation where there has been no consultation? It was apparent from Hebblethwaite’s appearance before the Select Committee that he saw that as a tick-box exercise rather than a meaningful engagement with the unions to try to minimise redundancies and mitigate the consequences that can—and often does—work.
Grant Shapps
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I place on record that she, as a former employment lawyer, has been incredibly helpful throughout this process, as have many other hon. Members. I see the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) in his place, who has also been extraordinarily helpful. The answer to her question is yes. I will work with my colleagues in BEIS to look at how we can make further improvements to those injunctive procedures. I thank her for her work.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
I, too, thank the Transport Secretary for his statement and for the seriousness that he has given the issue, because it has been appalling for those P&O Ferries workers. He talks about amending the Harbours Act 1964, which I wholeheartedly welcome, and he has urged ports to do that now, irrespective of the legislation not yet being changed. As futile as legal action may be from P&O Ferries, what assurances is he giving to British ports to do the right thing, notwithstanding that not yet being the law?
Grant Shapps
It may be helpful to the hon. Gentleman and the whole House if I place in the Library the letters that will go out immediately with this statement to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, in which I request that it carries out this action and a response, which I believe is already forthcoming.
Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con)
As with many Conservative Members, I have often advocated for business being a force for good, which means celebrating businesses that are positive contributors to society and calling out bad actors such as P&O, which has treated its workers callously. Does my right hon. Friend agree that today’s plan sends a clear signal to any business thinking of going down that route that the Government will penalise any company that treats workers as disposable, as P&O did?
Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and his action plan, but if the only legislative changes are to give new statutory powers to ports, the issue of fire and rehire will not go away. What conversations has he had with the Business Secretary about legislation so that the outrage that there rightly is in the Chamber is not brought back again next month and the month after?
Grant Shapps
I think what really set this case apart was the way in which the boss of P&O brazenly wanted to break the law, admits to breaking the law and says he will do it again, so the changes, in this case to the Harbours Act 1964, will deal with that. In addition, the hon. Member asked what conversations I have been having with the Secretary of State for BEIS, and the answer is very full ones. We have been looking across the piece at how employment law operates and we will continue to do so, notwithstanding the fact that we want there to be flexibilities in employment law, which is one of the things that leads to this country having consistently lower unemployment than the rest of the EU, for example.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
I welcome the fact that the Secretary of State is considering injunctive procedures where consultation has been ignored and not respected by the employer. It is just a shame that his party failed to vote for it in October. Will the Secretary of State say if the statutory code he is introducing will create any new criminal offence? If so, what is it, who can enforce it and what is the penalty? Alternatively, does it, like previous codes of conduct, simply issue a set of recommendations that bad companies can ignore?
Grant Shapps
I should say to the hon. Gentleman that the detail on that was set out by the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), yesterday in this House. I will make sure that the hon. Gentleman gets a full note detailing the answers to his questions.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
I welcome the statement from the Secretary of State, but the reality is that P&O could adjust its measures and continue to operate—and, of course, operate with different staff, with 800 staff losing their jobs. What consideration has the Secretary of State given to a 10th option of an operator of last resort, such as operates in the rail industry, so that he could immediately take such routes back into public ownership?
Grant Shapps
The hon. Lady will be interested to hear that I have considered an operator of last resort model. What happens at sea is somewhat different from what happens on the railways by the very nature of the fact that there is an open sea but there are specific rail lines. In this case, of course, we have the beauty of competition. We have Stena, DFDS and some others in that market, and they are plugging the gaps so that, from a capacity point of view, we are okay at this time.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
For the grand finale, I call Karl Turner.
Grant Shapps
As I prefaced, I am hugely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He has provided contacts, knowledge, expertise and experience through the last week and a half, as we have been discussing this issue, and I am incredibly grateful for his historical knowledge of the industry as well.
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that that is precisely what we are doing. In my comments, I said that we will be
“pursuing worldwide agreements at the International Labour Organisation.”
We will also
“push for a common set of principles to support maritime workers, including an international minimum wage, a global framework for maritime training and skills and tools to support seafarer mental health.”
I know these are issues for which he has been fighting for a very long time, and his time has come.
Madam Deputy Speaker
I thank the Secretary of State for answering so many questions, and so quickly. Let us proceed.
P&O Ferries and Employment Rights
Grant Shapps Excerpts(2 years, 1 month ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)
I thank the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) for bringing this debate forward. It is important that this should be fully discussed, although we have already had an urgent statement on the subject. The way in which those 800 loyal and experienced workers were treated by P&O Ferries last week was shameful and utterly unacceptable, after two years during which maritime staff faced significant demands and worked tirelessly to keep the country open and supplied us with vital goods, without which this country would not have been able to function. In my view—I am sure it is the view of the whole House—this is about having respect for employees, about employers having the common decency to engage with their workforce, particularly when times are tough, and about having standards that we would expect every single company in this country and every single employer to uphold.
Of course we understand the financial pressures that many businesses are facing right now. Regrettably, redundancies are sometimes inescapable, but there is no excuse for what we saw last Thursday. There was no consultation with the workforce and no consultation with the unions. To answer the hon. Lady’s question, the first I heard about it was at 8.30 in the evening, not through the memo, which I did not see, but instead through communication with my private office to indicate that P&O would be making redundancies the next day. The House may or may not be aware that, in 2020 during coronavirus and again in 2021, redundancies took place at P&O. In 2020, the numbers were larger than those we saw last Thursday. However, the company consulted properly about those redundancies, and they were made voluntary. So it was on that understanding that I had a conversation with the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) the next morning, in which he provided some on-the-ground information. Then, as colleagues will recall, I was standing at this Dispatch Box when I was passed a note about redundancies taking place. It was with considerable concern that I saw that the company was deploying those redundancies via a pre-recorded Zoom call, as the hon. Lady has said.
Clive Efford
The Secretary of State said that he did not know of P&O’s plans until 8.30 in the evening, but the shadow Secretary of State has indicated that the Government were aware of P&O’s plans before their public announcement. Can he confirm that that is the case, when that was, who had access to that information and what action they took on it?
Grant Shapps
My understanding is that a very small number of officials were contacted by P&O management during the late afternoon. They then wrote up a read-out of that, which is, I think, the note that has been widely circulated. As I have mentioned, my concern was not really sparked until I was at the Dispatch Box, when I started to hear about the way that it was being carried out, because in 2020 and 2021 voluntary redundancies had taken place in the way that we would expect. It was deeply concerning to see the footage of staff being forcibly removed from ferries, underlining the cynical approach and confrontational nature of the operation, which was not at all what we had seen in those previous two rounds. It is astounding that a company with a long and proud maritime past, whose vessels bear names such as the Pride of Kent and the Spirit of Britain, will in future have almost no British crew on board, but it is no more astounding than the manner in which the crew were left marooned last week.
Emma Hardy
Am I correct in understanding that the Secretary of State was made aware of the P&O workers being sacked and made the assumption that it would be done in the correct manner, without checking whether it would be done in accordance with trade union and employment legislation? We have heard the famous saying that if we assume something, it tends to make an “ass” out of “u” and “me”. It seems that in this case we have made an ass out of all those P&O workers who are now stuck without their jobs because the Secretary of State assumed that everything would be fine without doing his job and checking it.
Grant Shapps
I really want to avoid the temptation to try to turn this into a political knockabout—[Interruption.] It is not. It is about 800 people’s jobs. When the previous two rounds of redundancy took place—I think I am right in saying that neither the hon. Lady nor any other Member of this House, perhaps bar one, approached me about them—the company quite properly consulted the workers and the unions and carried them out in a voluntary fashion. The expectation, therefore, was, quite properly, that that was what would happen again on this occasion. We are also talking about a commercially sensitive decision, which limits what a Minister can immediately say and do. But there is no excuse—and this is the point—for the way in which it was carried out. For some employees, for a four-decade seafaring career to be brought to an abrupt video end is just plain insulting.
Since the news emerged, I have spoken to one of the sacked employees, who has given years of service to P&O. He told me about the chaotic way in which the situation unfurled for him on Thursday morning. He said that after a decade of service, workers were brutally informed via a pre-recorded Zoom message, and that, despite the fact that some staff have now been offered redundancy packages, nothing can change the way in which these workers were let down. They found out, as the rest of the world was finding out, via a Zoom message, which was linked to some of those individuals’ homes.
Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)
I am very pleased that my right hon. Friend has had the opportunity to speak to some of the employees. Has he managed to glean the level of the financial compensation for redundancy? Will the package be the standard minimum or will it be different?
Grant Shapps
My understanding—again, the House will have a strong view on this—is that they are being offered two and a half weeks’ pay, rather than one week’s pay for every year’s service, as well as three months’ redundancy pay and then another three months’ redundancy pay for the fact that it is happening very early. In other words, it is six months’ redundancy pay and two and a half weeks’ pay. However—and this is the catch—it is on the condition that they sign a non-disclosure agreement. Again, this goes to the heart of the problem, which is the company working in a way that tries to keep employees quiet and then pay them off in return.
Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)
You have been on your feet for eight minutes. Tell us what you are doing.
Grant Shapps
I hope the right hon. Lady recognises that I have taken a great number of interventions. I would be able to tell her what we are doing but only if she did not want me to take her colleagues’ interventions, which I want to hear.
Andrew Gwynne
The Secretary of State seems to be saying that it is absolutely unacceptable—indeed, outrageous—that the Spirit of Britain will be staffed by a non-British workforce because employees have not been sacked in an appropriate manner, but that, were the Spirit of Britain to be staffed by a non-British workforce because employees had been sacked through the appropriate channels, that would be okay. That is not taking back control. It is weak.
Grant Shapps
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. That is the point I was making. To have a ship called Spirit of Britain, Pride of Kent or any other name that attaches it to this country when it does not have British workers would be completely wrong, and I will be calling on P&O to change the name of the ships. It would be completely inappropriate. I think that was his point. [Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. It is getting very difficult to hear. I know that feelings are running very high, but it is important that we hear what the Secretary of State is saying.
Grant Shapps
I directly answered the hon. Gentleman’s question, but that seems to have brought derision, so I think I will make some progress to let the House, the country and those seafarers know what we are doing about this.
On Friday, I communicated my anger to the chief executive of P&O Ferries. I also urged him to engage with the seafarers and trade unions, and offered my support in organising those discussions. It is not too late for those discussions to take place to salvage the situation, so I implore him to do so. The maritime Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts), also spoke to the chief executive on Thursday and expressed in no uncertain terms our deep disappointment before coming to this House and explaining the Government’s position.
Grant Shapps
I want to make a little progress. We made it abundantly clear that the reputation of P&O Ferries has been badly hit by this episode, not just within government, but, more importantly, with the public. Many believe that they have seen this company’s true colours. Clearly, it has been handled disastrously by the company, which is why we have asked the Insolvency Service to look at the notification requirements and consider whether further action is appropriate, especially if, as we are concerned, the relevant notice periods were not given and the relevant consultation did not take place. I can inform the House that that would be a matter for criminal prosecution and unlimited fines.
We are reviewing, as a matter of urgency, all Government contracts with P&O Ferries and with DP World. Where possible, we are looking to use other providers if there are any contracts where the UK Government are involved—I believe, at this point, that such contracts have been historical in nature, rather than current. We are considering further steps that we can take to remove P&O Ferries’ influence from the British maritime sector, including positions on key advisory boards, because, again, I do not want to see that company, given the way the management have behaved, advising on the way the British maritime sector is shaped and rolls out.
Several hon. Members rose—
Grant Shapps
Again, I wish to make a little progress, so let me turn to the critical issue of fire and rehire. It is only a rehire to a very limited degree here, from what I can see—it is more like just fire. I have already asked ACAS, or, rather, my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary has, to produce additional information and guidance to employees, and—[Interruption.] And wait for it: if we need to go further, this is something we will consider doing. I have spoken to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to ensure that those who have lost their jobs are supported with relevant help and a rapid response taskforce. Since Thursday, I have received many messages from blue-chip employers anxious to snap up the newly redundant workforce, and I have arranged to put them in touch. I pay tribute to those who have come forward, and with unemployment at 3.9% I very much hope that those excellent individuals will be snapped up very quickly indeed.
Mr Carmichael
I hope that we are going to hear soon about the safety implications of this issue. P&O Ferries has obligations under the international safety management code, which requires each vessel to have a safety management system. That is then audited by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, which produces a document of compliance. It is difficult to see how, with 100% crew changes in the way we have heard, P&O can possibly now be in compliance with those obligations. Will the Secretary of State look at the possibility of suspending the documents of compliance until he is satisfied that P&O is in compliance with them?
Grant Shapps
I will, but I will come back to the right hon. Gentleman’s precise points in a moment in my speech. Seafarers’ rights and wellbeing are a matter I take extremely seriously. Indeed, the House may recall that during the pandemic I ordered the MCA to board vessels forcibly to ensure that conditions were appropriate where I believed that there may have been maritime workers who were being exploited, as indeed they were being. So I take this matter incredibly seriously. Maritime employees have not in this country, and indeed throughout much of the world, received some of the same benefits and protections that exist otherwise for workers. That simply is not good enough and it is a practice we have been seeking to end.
Grant Shapps
In 12 years we have done an awful lot, and I am just about to tell the hon. Lady about it. As I was saying, that is why in our maritime 2050 strategy, which she may not have read, this Government committed to a social framework for UK seafarers that will promote working, pay and social conditions, levelling the playing field with—[Interruption.] Let me explain to hon. Members who have not read the strategy that it is called the 2050 strategy but it takes place now. I do not want them to be confused by the name of the strategy. [Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. We really cannot have Members making it impossible to hear what is being said.
Grant Shapps
The right hon. Lady says I am “so annoying” but—[Hon. Members: “Division!”] [Laughter.] I see that the Opposition have the advantage right now. I am trying to explain that the maritime 2050 document is not about something happening in 2050; it is happening right now, and its purpose is to level up conditions between those working onshore and those working on ships. Seafarers, regardless of nationality, who normally work in our territorial waters are now, thanks to this Government, fully protected by our national minimum wage.
Colleagues should be aware that the UK operates under international laws as treaty members, meaning that UK law does not apply in all circumstances—an issue which may in part be in play in this case. A further consideration is that we understand that some seafarers were employed under Jersey law, which has further complicated the legal picture. Such complications allow employers to take advantage in the way that we have seen with P&O Ferries, which is why we will do all we can to ensure that domestic law is applied in full everywhere around the country.
Sammy Wilson
The boats on the route from Larne to Cairnryan never deviate, travelling daily from one British port to another British port. Do minimum wage laws apply on that route?
Grant Shapps
The laws apply in UK territorial waters, so I believe that they do. I will contact the right hon. Gentleman with the detail.
Despite the current disruption to P&O services, I can confirm that at present no major issues are reported on ferry routes to and from this country. I discussed supply-chain issues with my French counterpart this weekend, and both Government and industry have been working flat out to put alternative arrangements in place to ensure that the supply chain continues.
I place on the record my thanks to Stena for stepping up over the weekend at our request, laying on extra services from Scotland to Northern Ireland. We are monitoring the situation at other ports served by P&O, such as Dover, Liverpool and Cairnryan. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that Stena will be putting on additional services from Scotland to Northern Ireland from tomorrow, which will be of particular interest to retailers including ASDA and M&S.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way; I can perhaps help him and the House. National minimum wage legislation does now apply on UK-to-UK routes, but only since June 2020 when Opposition Members continually lobbied Ministers to ensure that it did.
Grant Shapps
I absolutely respect the hon. Gentleman’s knowledge and expertise, and I thank him publicly for ensuring that I was receiving information as he saw it break on the ground through his constituency contacts. As he says, it is the case that we introduced that legislation, and I am delighted that it was backed by all sides.
We will ensure that resilience plans are deployed on the supply-chain issue—
Grant Shapps
I want to make a little progress. Those plans will mean that passengers and freight traffic will be as little affected as possible.
While I welcome P&O’s plan to resume ferry operations this week, to the point of the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), the safety of shipping remains a top priority. Staff must be experienced and trained to uphold the highest possible standards, as his intervention suggested. I have now instructed the Maritime and Coastguard Agency to inspect all P&O Ferries vessels prior to their re-entering service, including the operational drills to ensure that the proposed new crews are safe and properly trained. If they are not, these ships will not sail. I expect many customers—passengers and freight—will quite frankly vote with their feet and, where possible, choose another operator. On that subject, for the purpose of fairness, I point out that P&O Cruises, although it shares the P&O name, is nothing to do with P&O Ferries and should not be tarnished with the same brush.
Dame Angela Eagle
Why does the Secretary of State seem pleased that P&O is to recommence its routes when, as we have heard, some of the crew will be on as little as £1.80 an hour?
Grant Shapps
I do not have details of how the ships will be recrewed. The hon. Lady will be aware that we are still putting maximum pressure on the company to sit down around the table with the workers and unions to make sure that this is not where this sad story ends. Ultimately, to provide the supply chain, which Northern Ireland Members have been raising, it is important that we have the resilience needed to ensure that goods flow, but that cannot be done using crews who are not properly trained to do the job to the highest standards.
I implore P&O Ferries to reconsider its decision. It is not too late to acknowledge its mistakes. I hope that the reaction to that now infamous video—in the House, the media and across the country—tells the company that this approach is quite simply unacceptable.
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Grant Shapps
I just want to complete my speech. Others wish to speak, not least Members on the hon. Lady’s side of the House.
I say to P&O, “Please, repair some of the damage done last week by fully engaging in a true dialogue with seafarers and trade unions.” Otherwise, we are committed to re-evaluating our relationship with P&O Ferries and will review our contracts with it and with DP World as a matter of urgency. We will do everything we can to help the workers, where possible by finding them new jobs, and we will make sure we send a powerful message to every other employer in this country that such disgraceful treatment of workers will never be tolerated.
Stella Creasy
The Secretary of State said earlier that he was going to ensure that P&O Ferries would no longer advise on transport issues in his Department. Right now, DP World has press promoting its role advising the Government on trade matters. Has he picked up the phone to his colleagues in the Department for International Trade to make sure that DP World is summarily sacked from that role? I am sure he could make a video to let the rest of the world know if that was the case.
Grant Shapps
I can confirm that that applies to all Government activity involving DP World and its ownership structure. I can also confirm that I am writing today to DP World—the ultimate owners—to express the outrage felt across the entire House.
Several hon. Members rose—