The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (James Murray)

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I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Madam Deputy Speaker, if you were to ask anyone in Britain what they think about the NHS, I bet they would give you an answer without hesitation. No one would be lost for words, because everyone has an opinion. Regardless of whether they tell you a story about how the NHS has helped them or their family in their moment of need, or whether they share a view on how they would change it for the better, everyone cares about the NHS. The NHS matters deeply to people right across our country because of how deeply it touches all our lives.

For my part, the NHS came to my rescue when I was diagnosed 18 years ago with a serious and rare neurological condition that threatened my ability to run, to write and to talk. After the best care I could have hoped for from my brilliant consultant and his team at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in Queen Square, and from other teams across the NHS, I am now symptom free. It is only thanks to the support of those people working in our health service, and to the faith of the Prime Minister in appointing me to this role, that I am able to stand here today as the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and set out what this critical Bill will mean for the future of our NHS.

Like me, everyone across Britain will have their own story of the NHS, or a view to share about its future. It is an achievement that we all share together, and one that is personal for us all. My predecessor as Health Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), has spoken movingly about the importance of the NHS to him. He explained how it saved his life when he was diagnosed with kidney cancer at the age of 38 and how, amidst all his worries, the one thing he never had to worry about was how much the treatment might cost. Let me pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for what he did in the role as a great champion of patients everywhere, and as someone with a huge passion for building a modern NHS—something we can see in this Bill, which he and my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) put so much energy into.

As a former Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Exchequer Secretary, I have been incredibly proud to support my right hon. Friend the Chancellor in her determination to take the right decisions on the public finances to enable record investment in our national health service. Thanks to that investment, the changes that this Labour Government have begun to make, the leadership at the Department for Health and Social Care and NHS England, and the incredible work of frontline staff across the NHS, in just under two years we have seen: over half a million fewer people on the waiting list; 2,000 more GPs; 8,500 more mental health workers; four in five patients being seen within four hours in A&E; over 100 community diagnostic centres now open in evenings and at weekends; and over 240,000 more people getting their cancer tests on time. That is the difference that this Labour Government are making: an NHS in which more patients get the treatment they need when they need it, and in which taxpayers get better value for money.

James Murray

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The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of having the right approach to cancer, and our national cancer plan sets out what we as a Government are doing to achieve that. He is also right to point to the regional variation in different parts of the country, and to say how important it is not just to raise standards across the country but to ensure that the increase in standards is evenly distributed, so that all areas improve. One of my roles as Secretary of State is to ensure that we not only deliver our national cancer plan but support local areas so that they have the right services.

James Murray

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I reassure my hon. Friend that what the Bill seeks to achieve, through local health watches across the country, is to bring the voice of patients closer to the people who plan and deliver services. Too often, we have not seen action following feedback. We need to ensure that such feedback is integrated into the planning and delivery of services, so that patient voices are heard.

I have set out some of this Labour Government’s achievements less than two years into office, which shows that decline is not inevitable. Our determination to deliver on what people voted for is making a real difference. We have started to make progress, and we are building an NHS that is fit for the future.

Labour’s choice in government has been, and will always be, to strengthen and improve the NHS as a service that is universal and publicly funded, with use based on need, not on ability to pay. That choice is backed by people across Britain, yet for the first time in a generation, some Members of this House are openly calling for the NHS’s founding principles to be abandoned. The hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), who I note is not in his place—[Interruption.] He never is—good point. Time and again, he has made it clear that he would tear the principles of the NHS to shreds and bring in an insurance-based system that would benefit only his friends in finance. Be in no doubt: Reform would sell our health service to the highest bidder. That would be a devastating mistake, and we must not let it happen.

Instead of turning our backs on the principles on which the NHS was founded, as some Opposition Members would have us do, I will fight every day as Health and Social Care Secretary to build the modern health service that our country demands and that patients deserve.

James Murray

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I thank the hon. Gentleman for his words about my taking on this post. I can reassure him that, as I will come to in my speech, the Bill sets out to integrate the national Healthwatch into the Department of Health and Social Care through a new patient experience directorate and to integrate local healthwatch organisations into integrated care boards and local authorities, which are responsible for delivering health and care at local level. This measure is about making sure that patient voices at national and local level are closer to those deciding on and delivering services, so that those voices are heard.

James Murray

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My hon. Friend is absolutely right that this Bill is about modernising the NHS. As a Labour Government, our priority is to boost investment and to modernise the NHS for the future. It is exactly that combination of investment and reform that will deliver the health service that her constituents need and deserve.

James Murray

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I will give way one more time, and then I will make some progress.

James Murray

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The hon. Gentleman raises questions relating to Healthwatch and to HSSIB being integrated into the Care Quality Commission. I will set out more detail in a few moments about those decisions, but fundamentally they derive from conclusions arrived at by Dr Penny Dash, whose review of the patient safety landscape found that it was too full of different organisations, and that their impact on the services provided to patients was unclear. We are seeking through this Bill to simplify that landscape, make sure that patients’ voices are heard closer to decision makers and improve the NHS for everyone across the country.

For me, the way to build on the progress of the past two years is not just to maintain the improvement in performance that we have seen, but to accelerate our fundamental transformation and modernisation of the NHS. As Health Secretary, I am absolutely focused on delivery and putting the values that we in the Labour party all share into action. Crucially, I am determined to make sure that we benefit from the fullest possible use of technology, digitisation and artificial intelligence to renew the NHS for the future.

The changes in technology, digitisation and AI are not an add-on to the NHS’s core business. With a determined focus on driving innovation at every level and the confidence to reimagine our approach to the nation’s health for the modern world, they offer us the chance to transform the way the entire NHS works. They will improve the speed of diagnosis, helping people to get the right treatment much more quickly than they do today.

James Murray

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I am going to make some progress, if I may.

These changes will streamline tasks for NHS staff, freeing them from admin and bureaucracy to focus their energy on caring for patients. They will transform the experience we all have as patients, giving us control and reducing our anxiety over the care we receive. They will reduce the costs of delivering healthcare, so that more of the money we spend goes to the frontline, where it belongs. That is the future we must build, and the road to that future runs through this Bill.

For many years, patient groups have warned about the pitfalls and shortcomings of fragmented information systems in the NHS, and they are absolutely right. Right now, information in the NHS tends to follow the institution, not the individual. That is why we all know the familiar frustration of having to repeat the same story over and over, every time we see a new nurse, doctor or consultant. The reason for this is that too often no one, including the patient themselves, can see a full summary of a patient’s medical record in one place. Those patchy care records are not just an inconvenience or a source of anxiety and distress; they can also be a risk to patient safety.

James Murray

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I am happy to look into the specific circumstances the hon. Gentleman refers to and get back to him. More widely, however, the investment is secured across the Government for implementing the single patient record system. That will mean that, rather than data being transferred from where it exists at the moment to a new system, it will remain where it is—in GP surgeries, hospitals and so on—but it will be linked up so that one person, including the patient, can see all that data from the middle of the network of information.

James Murray

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I will give way one more time.

James Murray

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I thank my hon. Friend for raising the very important question of data privacy and security. I will address that in a moment, because I am going to set out some of the protections in our approach to the single patient record, and I think that will exactly answer the questions she raises.

I will make progress, because I am conscious of time. As I have said, the patchy records are not just an annoyance or a source of anxiety or distress; they can also be a risk to patient safety. In other areas of our lives, getting information wrong or not having it immediately available may be an inconvenience; in a health service, the consequences can be profound. What happens to the patient who is rushed to accident and emergency and has complex conditions that require multiple medications, if the emergency team have no way of knowing that? What happens to the dementia patient who cannot keep track of all the different documents from all the different specialists in all the different providers? In today’s NHS, the GP or practice nurse at the clinic, the paramedics stepping through the front door and the consultant at the bedside are doing everything they can to try to solve a puzzle, but without all the pieces. This Bill will change that. It will do so by introducing a new approach—the single patient record—and that is nothing short of a game changer.

James Murray

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I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. She is absolutely right to underscore the importance of data security and data privacy. That is essential in building trust in what we are seeking to do.

To be clear, the single patient record, as I was just saying a moment ago in response to the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty), does not move data from one system to another; it preserves the data where it is, and builds links between systems so that one person, whether a clinician or a patient, can see all the data at once. The data will still be governed by the same privacy policies on a GP system, in a hospital trust system and so on. When linked together through the single patient record, it will be governed by the highest levels of security: only authorised individuals will be able to access the data, there will be an audit trail of anyone who has accessed it, and the cyber-security protection will be the strongest available.

James Murray

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As my hon. Friend will have heard, as she listened to the rest of my interview on Radio 4 this morning, the situation with the single patient record is very different from that of the federated data platform, because it is likely that we will let a series of contracts to de-risk the delivery of the single patient record. The situation with Palantir is that the contract for the federated data platform is, as I am sure she knows, being reviewed ahead of a potential break clause in 2027, but the situation with the single patient record is a very different set-up. As I have said a couple of times now, information is stored on individual systems—in GPs, hospitals and so on. The single patient record links them up and will be delivered through a range of different contracts to make sure that the system works in the interests of clinicians and patients.

James Murray

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I am going to make some progress.

The single patient record will mean that wherever a patient is being treated, even if they are not at their local GP or are in a hospital they have never been to before, those caring for them will have access to all the accurate, relevant, up-to-date information they need. Through this new approach, we will bring together people’s health and social care records digitally, securely and conveniently, and make them available to patients on the NHS app.

A number of Members have raised questions about data privacy, so let me be very clear on that point. Patients rightly expect their highly personal and sensitive medical details to be protected, and they will be. Under our plans, strict safeguards, strong cyber-security and clear controls on who can read information will be backed by an audit trail of who has accessed what. The single patient record will also be subject to existing forms of scrutiny and oversight in the NHS, from data protection officers to legislative safeguards. Where the single patient record is being used for research or planning, it will be treated the same as all other sensitive health data, subject to the same legal protections, ethical approvals and governance.

James Murray

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When the data is held by a GP surgery or an NHS hospital trust, for instance, the relevant bodies will remain the information controllers. Where that information is then shared through the single patient record, the Department of Health and the Secretary of State will take on a role as data controller as well. That will all be governed in the way that data protection currently applies across the NHS, through existing forms of data security. Fundamentally, it will reorientate the NHS to be a service that revolves around patients, rather than patients having to revolve around the NHS.

James Murray

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My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the single patient record applies to the NHS in England, but my colleagues in the ministerial team have regular conversations with our counterparts in Scotland and in other devolved Governments to ensure that we are working on such cross-border issues wherever we can.

James Murray

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I very much join my hon. Friend in urging the new Health Minister in Wales to follow our lead by introducing a way for patients to access the data and, crucially, for clinicians to be able to see all a patient’s data when making those decisions. With complex cases, where people see multiple nurses, doctors, consultants and so on, it can be crucial that clinicians see all the relevant information when making choices on how to treat their patients. I thank my hon. Friend very much for her question.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I should make some progress, as I know that many Members wish to speak this evening. I am getting a nod from you that that is the right thing to do.

As I have set out how the single patient record will help to improve patient safety, I also want to be clear that no Government should ever pretend that things do not go wrong. When they do, it is crucial that the right systems are in place to hold people accountable, and to ensure that we learn from mistakes in order to prevent them from happening again. As I mentioned earlier, Dr Penny Dash conducted an independent review into the patient safety landscape. What she found was a confusing landscape of multiple, overlapping organisations that are responsible for patient safety in the NHS, making it harder for staff and organisations to do the right thing. That is why the Bill simplifies the patient safety landscape, streamlining and consolidating functions to make the system more effective and efficient, and to restore patient confidence.

James Murray

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I am going to make some progress.

Following Dr Dash’s recommendations, the Bill will embed the mission and functions of the Health Services Safety Investigations Body into the Care Quality Commission to establish a clearer link between investigating safety concerns and increasing the quality of care. We will ensure that we protect the principle of a safe space for people to share their concerns. To ensure that patients are heard at every stage, from commissioning to delivery, we will make sure that patient feedback is embedded alongside decision makers at every level.

James Murray

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As I made clear, we will protect the principle of a safe space for people to share their concerns. The investigatory function will remain protected within the CQC. The benefit of embedding the HSSIB in the CQC will be to establish that clearer link between investigating safety concerns and increasing the quality of care. That is something on which we can all agree.

James Murray

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I am going to make some progress, because, Madam Deputy Speaker, you have asked me and looked at me several times, suggesting that that is what I should do.

I mentioned the changes that the Bill makes to HSSIB and the CQC, but the functions of Healthwatch England—I spoke about that earlier—will move to a new patient experience directorate within the Department of Health and Social Care. The functions of local healthwatch groups will be incorporated into ICBs and local authorities. That approach brings the voices of patients closer to decision makers, so that people have a direct impact on the services they receive. Of course, the changes will neither fix everything at the stroke of a pen, nor take effect overnight, but rather than the voices of patients being kept at arm’s length, the Bill puts them where they should be: right at the heart of the NHS.

James Murray

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The principle behind the changes to local healthwatch organisations is to bring the voice of patients closer to those who are planning and delivering services. Whether through ICBs or local authorities for health and care, it is an important principle to ensure that feedback is followed by action, and that people can have an influence on the design and delivery of health and social care at an earlier stage in the process.

James Murray

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I am going to make some progress, because I need to update the House on the important measures in the Bill to abolish NHS England. Those critical measures will reduce bureaucracy so that more energy, time and funding in the NHS can be focused on the frontline, helping patients. The Bill will abolish the world’s largest quango by merging NHS England into the Department of Health and Social Care and the wider NHS system.

James Murray

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As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, we are going through that process with the workforces at NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care. Crucially, however, by 2028, across the Department of Health and Social Care, NHS England and ICBs, we will see a 50% reduction in headcount. That means that the money that would otherwise be spent on those members of staff will now go towards healthcare on the frontline, which is what patients want to see.

As hon. Members will know, NHS England was established by the Health and Social Care Act 2012. That Act established more than 300 new NHS organisations, and has led to too much time, money and effort being wasted on overlapping processes, as good people try to navigate a labyrinthine system that holds them back from delivering for patients. In short, we have a system that gets in the way of what staff, patients and taxpayers want to see.

James Murray

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The right hon. Lady raises an important point, but local services are already commissioned locally in many cases. The changes that we are making by abolishing NHS England will mean that more power and resources go to ICBs and local areas to allow them to make the right choices for their local area. That is a way of bringing the services that we deliver closer to the people who need them.

Let me be absolutely clear that abolishing NHS England is in no way a reflection on the committed public servants who work at NHS England and in my Department. The truth is that unnecessary structures are getting in the way of them doing their crucial work and it is time for us to change that. The Bill will mean that more time, money and effort will be spent on improving the care that patients receive, rather than navigating the system around them.

James Murray

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I am happy to look into the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers. The abolition of NHS England and the transfer of its responsibilities either to the Department of Health and Social Care or to local ICBs is being managed carefully, to ensure that we can continue making progress while the structural change happens. To return to my earlier point, the money saved as a result of these changes can go directly to frontline patient care. We expect about £1 billion to be saved, which is the equivalent of 15,000 nurses. I do not see how anyone can disagree with our decision to ensure that resources are spent on the frontline.

As I have explained, abolishing NHS England as a separate organisation will strip out bureaucracy and ensure that we focus on delivery. The decision also has an important democratic role. The core goal of the 2012 Act, brought in by the Conservatives and Lib Dems, was to take politics out of the day-to-day running of the NHS. However, that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the NHS and its place in the democratic life of the nation. The public pay for the NHS; they own it, use it, care deeply about its future, and so they should always have a say in how it is run.

People voted Labour because they trust us to build on our party’s legacy by transforming the NHS for the future, and they will rightly hold us responsible for the decisions we take as we do so. It is not about politics getting in the way; it is about accountability driving change. That accountability has been lost in the confusion of having two separate centres for the NHS, and the Bill will end that.

James Murray

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ICBs, as the hon. Gentleman will know, have a board structure that oversees how they operate. The removal of local healthwatch organisations will mean that the voice of patients and their experiences go directly into the bodies that are commissioning and overseeing services. One of the changes the Bill makes is to ensure that strategic mayoral authorities will have a place on the board of ICBs, which helps them ensure that wider objectives in an area of health are aligned.

James Murray

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I am going to make more progress.

Alongside the removal of confusion and duplication at a national level, the Bill also gives those with local expertise the power, resources and flexibility they need to design and deliver health and care services for their area. The Bill will empower them to innovate, drive progress and do what is in the best interests of the patients they serve.

Under the Bill, ICBs will have more direct responsibility for their services than ever before. They will be at the heart of integrating health and social care, and they will include those people responsible for housing, transport and jobs, so that we can tackle the root causes of ill health, which is better both for patients and for the NHS.

The NHS gave me a second chance at life, and so as Health Secretary I will fight for the NHS every day with the strength it has given me back. The Tories ran down the NHS through 14 years of neglect, and the Lib Dems enabled them. Reform wants to abolish the NHS altogether and replace it with an insurance-based system. The Greens seem intent on ignoring clinical advice and have no practical solutions for the health service. Only Labour has a plan to get the NHS back on its feet. Only Labour is determined to both invest in and fundamentally transform the NHS for the future. Only Labour is showing that change is possible.

We promised to cut waiting lists—we delivered the biggest annual fall in 16 years. We promised an extra 1,000 GPs in our first year—we delivered twice that number. We promised 8,500 more mental health staff by 2029—we have delivered them three years early. We promised 700,000 more NHS dentistry appointments—we have delivered an extra 1.8 million already.

We promised to transform the NHS for the future, and that is what this Bill will do. We are already boosting investment in the NHS where it needs more. We have begun stripping out bureaucracy from the NHS where it needs less. And now we will build a truly modern NHS that will be there for generations to come. The Bill is the next crucial step in our mission, and I commend it to the House.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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I was going to say that sometimes it is the hope that kills you, but instead I will say that it is a pleasure to close the debate on behalf of this Government.

Let me begin by commending the many fantastic speeches that we have heard this evening. My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) made some excellent points about spinal cord injury and specialised commissioning. His comments apply to many people, and I take them on board. My hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham and Penge (Liam Conlon) talked about the experience of Alex Savage and his work with the Tessa Jowell Foundation; we thank Mr Savage for that, and mourn his passing. The Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran), made a number of valuable points, and I will continue to engage with her and her Committee. I also note the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley (Josh Fenton-Glynn). My hon. Friends the Members for Thurrock (Jen Craft) and for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) talked about the experience that they bring to this place in relation to SEND, supporting disabled people—particularly children—and joining up services. My hon. Friend the Member for Dudley (Sonia Kumar) drew on her experience of designing services for the future around people and patients.

As ever, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central (Lewis Atkinson)—another excellent manager from the service—for the expertise that he brought to the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Josh Newbury) made some excellent points about professionals in NHS England, and about communications professionals as well. We know that it is difficult, and we want to use their expertise as we go forward. My hon. Friends the Members for Gloucester (Alex McIntyre), for Rossendale and Darwen (Andy MacNae) and for Stockport (Navendu Mishra) talked about mental health, obesity prevention and their local services. I thank the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), for his support for my work in presenting the Bill, and I am relieved that he is still here in support this evening. That is good to know. A week is a long time in politics.

As I often tell people—you have heard it before, Madam Deputy Speaker—I have Lord Lansley to thank —or blame—for my being at this Dispatch Box. I left the NHS and stood for the Bristol South constituency because I could see the coming catastrophe of those coalition reforms. In 2010, patient satisfaction was an all-time high; in 2024, it is at an all-time low. In 2010, the last Government inherited the shortest waiting lists in history; in 2024, they left the waiting lists at record highs. In 2010, the NHS was efficient and delivered value for money; by 2024, we had dropped down international rankings despite a massive increase in headcount at the centre. That is the scorecard that the last Government left for the 2012 reorganisation.

In preparing for this debate, I have looked through my past comments since becoming an MP. In 2016, I said that despite being a non-executive director and manager in the NHS, I could not easily navigate the plethora of bodies in the health and care field. From 2016, it got worse. Each crisis or scandal brought more so-called independent bodies, but no more efficiency, effectiveness or, crucially, safety. We on the Public Accounts Committee were desperately trying to get clarity on accountability for spending, but we did not get it. In 2019—this is on the record—I did an interview with the Health Service Journal in which I highlighted how the role of Parliament in nodding through the estimates bore no relation to financial accountability or spending in my local NHS, and how it was impossible to follow through on funding allocations for facilities for my constituents, or even to understand the decision making of local commissioners, trust boards, regions, NHS England, the Department or the Treasury. When I sat on the Opposition Benches, I watched Tory MP after Tory MP chastise their own Government about what was happening in their constituencies, which was met with a shrug of the shoulders to say, “It’s all down to NHS England.”

The Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson), talked about ICB accountability, but there is none. Many MPs come to me and say that they cannot get a response from their ICBs. At the moment, some people cannot even get a response to their emails. It is shocking, as my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson) outlined so clearly. The Conservatives’ approach was to hand £200 billion of taxpayers’ money to one body, and more taxpayers’ money to a host of others that were charged with delivering, monitoring and checking a health system in which there is a lot of monitoring, a lot of checking and no end of tick boxes but, crucially, too little delivery of the high-quality services that the British public deserve and the staff want to give.

That cavalier approach changed with this Labour Government, why is why we are bringing forward this Bill. We are abolishing NHS England, devolving commissioning budgets to ICBs, putting patient voice at the heart of the new directorate, and making local commissioners in councils and ICBs embed patient voice and experience in their commissioning, rather than outsourcing their responsibility and then ignoring it. The system does not work, and Members know it. Patients deserve better.

This is the biggest transfer of power to local systems that we have seen. Most significantly, this Government are delivering on giving power to patients, who are frankly astonished to find in 2026 that their records are not joined up in the NHS. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin) made an excellent point about the impact that that has on veterans. Although we have a patchwork of local workarounds that benefit a few people—in Manchester, Bristol or the north-east, for example—patients across England have the right to their own record, and for their clinicians to have access in order to deliver the care they need. That point was well made by my hon. Friends the Members for Glasgow South West (Dr Ahmed), for Ashford (Sojan Joseph), and for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley), all of whom gave us real examples of patient experience. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Dr Opher) says, it is about time that we had single patient records. We heard about the impact on patients from my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Luke Murphy), who spoke about the sad passing of his father.

A lot of questions have rightly been asked about the single patient record and data, including by the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Sarah Bool), my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Lizzi Collinge), the hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Martin Wrigley), and my hon. Friends the Members for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy), for Worthing West (Dr Cooper), for Bournemouth West (Jessica Toale) and for Wolverhampton North East (Sureena Brackenridge). We want to make sure that we get this right. They should know that although the Bill establishes the legal framework for the SPR, much of the detail will be in secondary legislation. I can assure the House that all Members will have a chance to scrutinise the regulations in due course. However, we firmly believe that pursuing a single patient record is the right thing to do. We have found that patients and staff support it, as long as it is built with the strongest safeguards for security and privacy. We hear their concerns, and we will make sure that those safeguards are built in.

The single patient record will protect personal data by default. It will be considered critical national infrastructure, with the highest standards of cyber-security and information governance, so that only the right people can access the right information at the right time and for the right reasons. There will be audit trails of who has accessed a patient’s data, and UK GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018 will apply. The Bill does not create new legal gateways for purposes other than direct care. It does allow data to be used for research, population analysis and service improvement, but only where there is a separate legal basis for doing so.

Let me pick up on the issue of accountability, which is very important to me personally. I agree that it is important to get this right, and we need to work both nationally and locally. I am old enough to remember the world before 2012. For 60 years, the Secretary of State had overall responsibility and accountability for this service. I think the comments about local accountability were well made by the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) and my hon. Friends the Members for Birmingham Erdington (Paulette Hamilton) and for York Central (Rachael Maskell). Let me be clear: the Bill puts more power, not less, in the hands of local organisations. ICBs will be responsible for commissioning a wider range of services, including primary care, and they will hold a large proportion of the NHS budget—over £179 billion, as before—but at the same time the public expect Ministers to be accountable for the NHS they pay for.

Therefore, Ministers should have the tools to hold ICBs to account and direct the system where necessary. That is why the Bill provides the Secretary of State with a power of direction, but with important safeguards on appointing specific individuals and directions to intervene in decisions about services provided to a particular person. If a NICE recommendation on a drug or treatment exists, this takes precedence over a direction. The powers in the Bill will ensure the Secretary of State is able to create the conditions for ICBs to succeed with effective and proportionate forms of intervention, where necessary.

Another major point made this evening was about Healthwatch. I think there is an important philosophical point about independence, the perception of independence and effective decision making, which we will discuss in Committee and it will be important to do so. However, as the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan), outlined very well, we have had these bodies for 50 years. Patients are saying that the system does not work and are not reporting to it, so the system does not work. I listened carefully to the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire (Ian Sollom) and my hon. Friends the Members for Blaydon and Consett (Liz Twist) and for Dartford (Jim Dickson) about getting the balance right, and we will discuss those really valuable points.

Currently, the patient voice sits isolated in separate organisations, which criticise the status quo but are not able to change it. That is why we want a new director of patient experience in the Department to ensure that voices are heard as part of every decision. Locally, it is the job of the commissioner—and I have been a commissioner—and of a good commission organisation to include the patient voice and experience in all its decision making. That is where the difference is made, and such organisations should not be outsourcing those decisions. That is the difference, but a debate is to be had, and we have to assure people on the perception issue. We want to ensure local ICBs incorporate the patient voice and experience appropriately—including digitally excluded people, as the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) said— into their decision making. How that happens is not set in stone. It is our job to set the destination, not exactly how we get there. If an organisation can provide a good service locally for the patient voice and experience, the ICB could continue to contract with it.

Briefly on HSSIB, I hear the points from the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin), whom I have met, and my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) and other Members have raised these issues. The Dash review is very clear—I recommend Members to read it—and it is why the new CQC will combine its regulatory functions with the depth of HSSIB’s investigatory capability to the benefit of both. As was rightly raised by the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George), the safe space is important to enable people to share concerns in confidence, and that is safeguarded in the Bill. I understand that there is a perception issue, but we must ensure that that is real. The CQC has also raised some operational issues with implementing the integration of HSSIB, and we are working with it to ensure that, when passed, the measures concerned will be implemented effectively.

To conclude, the Bill is only one part of our modernisation agenda, but it is a crucial one, because for decades Governments have failed to grapple with this fragmentation. Like capital and the workforce, the problem was put in the “too difficult” box and left to this Government to solve, but solve it we will. The single patient record will finally mean patients get the joined-up, proactive care they deserve. By voting for this Bill, we can have a fresh start in NHS history. I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Health Bill: Programme

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Health Bill:

Committal

(1) That the Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 16 July 2026.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Jade Botterill.)

Question agreed to.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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Q To pick up on Sir Ciarán’s comments about experiences being extremely rare, the changes in the Bill sit alongside changes to the national centre and clarity for ICBs, with very little change to providers. What would make the biggest difference to providers and commissioners to improve things?

Sir Ciarán Devane: The biggest difference should be that the local providers and ICBs are incentivised to get together to make collective commissioning decisions. That means that, whether you call it a neighbourhood, footprint or local authority area, they make those decisions based on population evidence, which is why the single patient record is important, and they have the autonomy to do that with a lighter-touch centre that is set in guidance saying, “Look, this is broadly what we’d like you to do.” That guidance should be developed in conjunction with the people who have to do the job on the ground. That is what it should be; if the Bill allows that, that is fantastic.

The second bit is that the mechanism—it is not necessarily a legislative thing—by which the NHS is managed day-to-day will still need to exist. Who is going to be keeping an eye on things 24/7, 365 days a year? What happens if there is a fire—maybe even a literal fire—in a hospital? How is the NHS going to be corralled and brought in to help out a trust where something like that happens? That management function—the day-to-day operational management—needs to remain strong enough in the target operating model, as it is called, in the Department. If it is not, that could prove very difficult. Not necessarily day to day or in the short term, but in the long term, that bit has to be got right. One of the big risks of the legislation—there is not a legislative solution to this risk—is how day-to-day management works. We all have views on the relative strengths of the regions, of NHS England and so on, but how is that going to work in the new world? If one loses “grip”—that word is used a lot—then the risk to service delivery is quite high, and the risk to financial control is even higher.

James Blythe: Put simply, as an NHS organisational leader I think there are always a lot of things from which you can take your guidance on what you should be prioritising and focusing on as an organisation. If the result of this legislation is that we as organisational leaders have a really tightly defined set of priorities to deliver, articulated as far as possible as outcomes for local people and our population as a whole in terms of waiting times, quality and improving population health, I think that will allow us locally to get on with the partnerships that we already have as a day-to-day part of running local public services. We can focus on that very small set of things and do them really well.

Over the last year, there has been a sense of increasing clarity about those priorities as NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care have worked more closely together. The NHS has delivered on those priorities to a large degree, but it all comes down, as my colleague says, to how senior officials and Ministers operate the system, because there is to be significantly more freedom to set priorities, and to design and run the system that essentially delivers them for the NHS. How that is done, retaining clarity about the things that we want to have delivered through the system and empowering local systems to do them will be really important.

Karin Smyth

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Q Sir Ciarán, may I clarify a point with you? I think you are not objecting to the abolition of NHS England—yes or no?

Sir Ciarán Devane: No, we are not.

Karin Smyth

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Q Because you also said that the risk of not having financial control is high. I would say that, over the last few years, financial control has been a massive problem, and we have put in much better financial control. I think that your concern is with the future rather than the legislation.

Sir Ciarán Devane: Yes, completely.

Karin Smyth

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Q Mr Blythe, what does the single patient record mean for you in running a big hospital?

James Blythe: I think the single patient record offers enormous opportunities to improve patient care. We know that we see patients every day whose quality of care and patient experience would be improved through having access to a continuous record that ran through primary and secondary care, mental health care and other services. To my mind, having had experience of working with systems that have introduced to some degree the single record or a single care plan, it will be extremely important that we take the time to train our clinical staff and adapt our operational systems so they use a patient record productively and consistently in the interests of better patient care. If we just put a single patient record into clinical settings without doing anything with the staff or services to make it useful, at best it will be inconsistently used and sometimes it will just be missed altogether. If we are going to invest, which I think is right, in a single patient record, we also have to invest in those systems and human factors around it, and make sure that we train people to use it well.

Karin Smyth

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Q As we have heard, despite 52 years of independent patient voice, 20,000 reports and many hundreds of recommendations, we have some of our worst ever patient satisfaction. We are also now more than 10 years on from the Francis report, but recommendations are not being followed through locally or nationally. It is pretty clear that the landscape does not work. Like many other Committee members, I represent communities that are not in that space and need to be represented in new way. What are the barriers to that? How can the single patient record, and the information we can create in different ways, help to reverse what is a shocking landscape for patient experience and patient voice?

Professor Croisdale-Appleby: Sorry, I had some difficulty in hearing the question, but I hope I heard it correctly. Was it about the patient record?

Karin Smyth

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Yes.

Professor Croisdale-Appleby: Fine. The Government’s move to the integrated patient record is absolutely excellent. Most of us have wanted that for a very long time, but we also recognised the IT difficulties in doing it, as well as the question of security. However, as digital has advanced, we have nutcrackers that we did not have before to crack that particular nut. I can but support that move.

From the point of view of the things that really matter, the ability of a person to feel that they can tell their story once—not time and again—comes up all the time in our research. With great respect to everyone here, we are very capable of standing up for ourselves and insisting that we get answers, but the people I deal with and have the privilege of representing are often not in that position at all. They are overwhelmed when they are repeatedly asked the same question, often in a language—medicalese, if you like—that they do not really understand and feel threatened by. The single patient record is going to go a long way towards helping with that situation. It is not the complete answer but at least it does the hygiene part, as opposed to the motivator part, very well.

Sarah Tilsed: It is an excellent initiative—1as the professor said, we have been calling for it for such a long time—but we really need to consider the consent and data elements. A lot of pieces of work that we have done with patients shows that people are happy with their data being shared for these electronic records, as long as they are transparent and patients know what is being done with their data—that is a really important point.

The care.data initiative and general practice data for planning and research—GPDPR—were great, but unfortunately, because they did not have genuine patient involvement right from the beginning, they failed. We need to ensure that the SPR does not fail. In terms of reaching underrepresented or less-heard communities, we need to ensure that we hear from those people straightaway. How do they want this to work? Do they want to know how their data is being used? How can we ensure that people who do not use the NHS app are involved and that their data is being shared? How do we approach people who are understandably very hesitant about digital technology and electronic records?

Karin Smyth

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Q Councillor Wright, the Bill will essentially abolish NHS England. Do you have any comments about how that works at the moment in terms of local government? How can we unlock some of the potential in the Bill, with the changes to NHS England, with regard to local government, particularly on health and wellbeing boards and the entire place agenda?

Councillor Wright: The main problem the abolition of NHS England has caused is upheaval and uncertainty with our health partners. Many of the health partners at our health and wellbeing board meetings or our place committee meetings are almost saying to us, “I don’t know if I will be here at the next meeting.” Such turmoil in the changeover creates instability from a lack of being able to plan what will happen next. That is one of the challenges that we feel. We are working with our health partners and getting assurances that there will be continuity, but it is quite hard when the person we are working with is changing.

We are really excited about neighbourhood health sitting under health and wellbeing boards. We love the idea of neighbourhood health looking at the wider determinants of health and having a very localised health response to the issues that that community needs to help it. One of our anxieties is that a lot of ICBs have become bigger and have less connection with the place. They are also shrinking; I think NHS England is losing 30%—

Maria Higson: Larger geography, fewer people!

Councillor Wright: Exactly. We have had a letter from our ICB giving us the heads-up that they might not be able to guarantee that they can send the right person to our health and wellbeing committees, which will obviously make it difficult to plan neighbourhood health.

The other challenge we find in neighbourhood health is that local authority boundaries might not necessarily match neighbourhood boundaries. I will give an example from Bracknell, where I live. Bracknell is very clearly a neighbourhood, but the south of the borough, which is within the Bracknell Forest council area, probably sits within Bracknell and Wokingham and a little bit within Reading. It will be hard to bring in true neighbourhoods with the current structure, but that is something we are working around, and we are hopeful that we will be able to sort it out.

Karin Smyth

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Q May I come to you, Sally, particularly on social care and the opportunities that might arise from it?

Sally Burlington: Health and wellbeing boards will probably become even more important following the removal of local government representation from the ICB. It will be the only place we have NHS and local government partners with the specific statutory responsibility to work together on social care. As others have noted, they are at place level and will therefore be crucial for connecting with the neighbourhood.

The other factor that is helpful to note is that there is a huge amount of pressure on systems at the moment, and the cuts to ICBs are having a profound effect on the relationships they have with local government partners. We are hearing from our members that continuing healthcare is a real point of concern, with reviews leading to the withdrawal of that care, placing challenges on local authorities. In that context, making sure that we are supporting health and wellbeing boards to be as effective as possible for neighbourhood health, and in that strategic joining-up role, becomes even more important.

Karin Smyth

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Q Can you say a little more about what those opportunities might be, particularly for social care, with better focus on health and wellbeing boards?

Sally Burlington: Neighbourhood health is a really important vision that we strongly support. In a way, it is obviously the right thing to do to move services closer to the people they serve and to work very closely with communities. Health and wellbeing boards have an opportunity to drive that neighbourhood health agenda because they are responsible for neighbourhood health planning and have the connection to local government, to the voluntary sector in many cases, and to the NHS. It feels like that is a real space of opportunity to drive neighbourhood health and realise the benefits that it could offer.

Karin Smyth

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Q I will follow on from Dr Johnson’s questions. You have all expressed support for the single patient record, which is great, but that is not universal. Obviously, the Bill has to be enacted for that measure to go forward. It would be helpful to hear about your current experiences in your different areas—older people, maternity and carers. Your examples gave a bit more detail on why not to have this, Ms Abrahams—let us not assume, because although the process of the Bill is to make this happen, we have heard some concerns today from people who do not want that. What is happening in your world that this will help with?

Kath Abrahams: Right now, the situation is really tricky and people are being failed in their pregnancy and maternity care. Women report constantly having to retell their story—highly sensitive or traumatic experiences of loss—and that repetition can happen across the early pregnancy unit and maternity services. There is a common misconception that the NHS is one system, so when they find that people in another bit of the system do not know something, that can be really frustrating and annoying, because they assume that it exists.

There is also a lack of continuity. A clinician can be completely unaware of a sensitive or traumatic experience that somebody has had, and there can also be genuine dangers in outcomes. We know from the reports into Morecambe Bay, Shrewsbury and Telford that the lack of joined-up sharing of information and good communication between different parts of the system has led to some really difficult outcomes, particularly if somebody also has gestational diabetes, for example, or another condition and they are taking a particular medication that could cause harm to an unborn baby.

There are lots of situations in which not having the complete history is preventing people from getting not only really good, compassionate care, but the safe care they need. If someone is in an emergency situation and they are bleeding out, or their baby is not moving as much as they should, there is not time to start from scratch; they might not be in a position to explain what is happening to them and what their history is. They might not even know all the relevant bits of their history. Having that complete record, if it was done really well, would give clinicians the information that would allow them to make really timely decisions. Maternity can often be high risk—I do not need to say that to you; you know that—but these are often fast-moving situations where time is absolutely of the essence.

Emily Holzhausen: To build on what I said earlier about the amount of co-ordination and admin that people do, I will just refer to some carers’ words. One said that if they had to phone, they would end up in a long waiting queue or having to travel to the GP in person. There are people juggling work and care, so this has real, everyday impacts on their lives and their time.

When I refer to errors, I mean things such as medication errors or diagnosis errors. When you care for someone with very complex conditions, you can have health appointments every week—sometimes twice a week—and it is so hard to stay on top of it. When I say it is so hard, and talk about unpaid carers, we know that caring is a social determinant of health: in itself it is a single factor for poorer health outcomes. We know that 600 people a day give up work to care.

We have done a report on the tipping point: what tips carers out of work? One such thing is social care; another is how they are treated in the health system. If we reduce the pressure on carers and put information at their fingertips to help them to manage care, we improve outcomes for everybody: the health and wellbeing of the carer and the safety of the person that they care for. People are trying to do their best in quite a difficult situation.

One of our members, Norman Phillips, has talked about that a lot. He was in contact with more than 24 professionals, knitting up care around his wife who had advanced multiple sclerosis and dementia. That is an incredible amount of co-ordination of care. You can see how a single patient record, as it is envisaged in the future, could really help to support people who provide care. It is critical, given that we have an ageing population, that we recognise and support families in what they do.

Paul Farmer: I would start by talking about people with long-term conditions. Let us bear in mind that by the time we are 65, 82% of us will have one long-term condition, and half of people aged 70-plus have more than one long-term condition. Most of those long-term conditions are diagnosed within primary care, but of course they have a huge impact on access to secondary care services. For a clinician not to be able to see that whole picture and for the individual to have to explain again and again their physical health issues, and potentially their comorbid mental health issues, creates a huge challenge for people in getting access to the right help and support in a timely manner.

I would build on that to think about two areas that particularly affect older people: frailty and dementia. In this context, we know that assessment for frailty can make a big difference to ensuring people receive the right kind of help and support. That should be done in primary care, but often, sadly, people with frailty will present in hospital with a range of conditions. Understanding the frailty assessment score and what help and support is needed is key. For people with dementia and their family carers, having access to the right information for the clinician and for the individual concerned can make a huge difference. A disjointed experience just exacerbates what can often be a very challenging time.

Karin Smyth

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Q My questions around the benefits that you might see have been really well answered, so I will not go back to that issue. Dr Cocker and Dr Imam, in your work on maternity and frailty, what early lessons have you picked up on how this might work for you?

Dr Cocker: Having seen the maternity-focused prototype that NHS England developed in the north-west, we learned that it is technically difficult because there are lots of systems. There needs to be a level of interoperability that allows you to pull the data or it is not going to be much use as a reliable system.

The other thing was about trying to ensure that we design those systems for the patients most in need. That might be social or medical need, and there are many different facets to that. That was one of the other challenges. A lot of the focus went into trying to determine a set of theoretical patients who were very high need, and ensuring that you have encompassed all those possible needs, so that if you design the systems for those in most need, they will cater for as many people as possible.

Dr Imam: To expand on Dr Cocker’s point about the identification of problems, people living with frailty often have multiple under-identified issues. In the prototype we have been shown, the SPR has the potential to analyse the wealth of data on a person and summarise it in a manner that makes sense to the clinician logged into the record. It can also piece together a timeline of what has been happening with a person.

As I said earlier, we often follow a manual process to try to understand what has been going on recently for a person. The SPR will not only enable the automation of that process, but give us the ability to know who the key individuals involved in that person’s care are, so when that person is in a crisis or emergency situation, we know exactly who to call and who the last person to touch the patient was.

There are other important functions. It is not only about sharing information across an entire pathway and having the whole-system approach that I described—from community to hospital, and vice versa. Importantly, many people living with frailty require multiple different referrals and the involvement of multiple different people in their care. The SPR will be able to streamline some of those processes and make recommendations for certain referrals that a clinician, who, under an earlier version, would have logged into the record, may not have otherwise thought about, so it may even improve outcomes for patients by providing solutions to improve their care that we would not have come up with otherwise.

Karin Smyth

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Q Dr Byrne, you talked about the issues around trust, which we absolutely recognise. We hear quite a lot about the work going on to try to get the legislation right technically, but, further to what you have suggested, how would you advise the Government to communicate clearly about the benefits, while understanding people’s concerns about getting a single patient record, should the legislation become law?

Dr Byrne: You have to show that you take the risks and people’s concerns seriously, and give a credible analysis of the risks. The key thing is to engage with the risks meaningfully. You should then think about what safeguards you could put into the Bill and future regulations that would actually be effective and be seen as credible, depending on what risks you are trying to address.

I know it is difficult to get into the detail on the primary legislation at this stage, not least because you are trying to sequence things when we do not yet know what the SPR will be, which I appreciate is a further constraint. I would suggest that you consider putting in the Bill one particular safeguard relating to secondary purposes. People have concerns around two main things: confidentiality and their privacy, and secondary uses—who might access their data in future, and why and for what purpose, other than for their direct care. Focusing on that second factor, there are lots of things that might come up that you could do in regulations, but right now, I would suggest that you could build in the safeguard of an independent oversight mechanism for how decisions are made on who gets to access the data and why. In that, you can involve public and layperson representation to bring in that consideration of the risks that matter to the public, alongside the potential benefits.

That could be helpful for two reasons. First, it would be a safeguard against having any unchecked decision-making power on access, whether now or in future. Secondly, it recognises the reality of human systems and organisations. No one expert or small group of experts, however wise or whatever their integrity, can see the whole picture and have a 360° view of what matters to the public. It would be a meaningful way to give the public agency and representation in that decision making—a meaningful exercise of citizen control, if you like. As humans, we are at our best and our decision making is at its safest and strongest when we get a diversity of perspectives involved—as, indeed, the Committee is doing right now. In this context, that should involve patients and the public.

My second point, which is perhaps germane to your wider discussions around the Bill, is that no one organisation can effectively and consistently scrutinise and challenge itself. That goes for questions around data use and access—and wider, as well—in your considerations.

Karin Smyth

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Q It is always good to have a doctor from the NHS supporting managers in the NHS, having been one. I declared my interest earlier that I am a member of Managers in Partnership.

We had a lot of change with the Health and Social Care Act 2012, and the Bill seeks to reverse that in terms of the architecture of the NHS. We absolutely appreciate as a Government that that is very difficult for staff working in it. I appreciate that the operating model and so on is coming forward, but could you say a bit about people’s feelings about the Bill? There will be more clarity to the centre and the role of providers is not changing, while the real change is around commissioning functions and, as you said, commissioning support organisations. We heard earlier that everything is being reorganised. That is not true, but there is a big change in the geography and the functions of ICBs and commissioners, and the Secretary of State’s role will clearly be different. What might people’s approach to that be?

Jon Restell: Clarity, definitely. No one wants to start with the system that came in in 2011 and 2012. Successive Governments started to correct it almost as soon as it was put in place. I think most people would welcome sorting out the clarity around commissioning there, but I do not think that is the same thing as cutting 50% of those organisations’ staff and running costs. You are clarifying the relationship between the centre and ICBs, commissioning and providers. You still need enough managers with enough skills working in the right system to deliver. That is the nub of what we are doing.

For us it is not really about how the Bill will eventually pan out; it is about the cut and how that is being administered by NHS England, the Department and ICBs. The whole system of management is under strain across the health service. You say that providers are not changing but they are also being asked to take out quite significant amounts of management resource. They are merging to form bigger, potentially more centralised units that may be less responsive and less innovative. I think that organisational form is really important, even if the headline of the Bill might tidy up and clarify those relationships, which would be welcome.

A point made by a lot of members, particularly those in ICBs, is that they do not think that the model design—where we started with ICBs, then went to regions and we are eventually going to get to the target operating model for the Department—is being done at a time where you can see the proper connections that need to be made between those organisations. When the system is up and running, how well will it work together to share information, share risk and so on? It feels like the Bill is very high level and the detailed design of the organisations is being undertaken in a completely fragmented way. People see that as potentially requiring the next round of reorganisation. You are a former NHS manager, Minister; you know how often reorganisation is reached for as the solution. I genuinely feel that people have got to the point where enough is enough. That kind of continual change will create more and more problems for doing the things that the public actually want to see: innovation, improvement in the quality of service and happier staff—all the things that managers should be focused on, not the merry-go-round of organisational change.

Karin Smyth

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Q As you say, the Bill does not deal with social care, but it is great to have your expertise here. Do you think the Bill should or could have included social care at this stage?

Sir Andrew Dilnot: The question of the fine details of how legislation should be passed is certainly outside my skillset, so I have to be agnostic about whether the Bill should have addressed the wider questions of social care. On the question of whether we could address social care or not, the answer is definitely yes. After all, several Governments over the last few years have promised to do so. The former Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, when he was the shadow Secretary of State during the election two years ago, promised that he would do it. Such measures have received Royal Assent twice, but they have still not taken place, even though they were promised by the then shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, before he became the Secretary of State.

Yes, we definitely could do it. The amounts of money involved, while of course significant, are small relative to the aggregate costs of the NHS or the uplift in spending on the NHS that, with my full support, we have seen in the last couple of years. I think it is a genuine puzzle and a black mark for all of us, including me, that all these years have gone by and we have done nothing. We have a social care system that is supported by millions of wonderful informal carers and about 1.5 million formal carers, benefiting hundreds of thousands of people, but it is creaking under intolerable strain. It really makes no sense to me, and I really do not know why or how we have managed to go for so long without addressing it. We should do so, not only because it is the right thing to do, but because it is now so bad that it is doing direct, instrumental damage to the NHS.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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Clause 1 formally abolishes NHS England as a statutory body, which is one of the key aims of the Bill. The current structure, with its two centres, has led to layers of unnecessary bureaucracy, duplication and unclear lines of accountability, and has come with significant cost, with the centre growing significantly in size since 2013. Through the Bill, we are simplifying the organisational landscape of the NHS and removing unnecessary complexity and overlapping roles among NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care. The reform will enable leaders and staff to focus on delivering care, rather than on navigating bureaucratic hurdles. Importantly, it will also restore Ministers’ central role in national oversight and setting strategy, which the public rightly expect as part of a democratic system. The creation of an arm’s length body of this size was a mistake, and we seek to rectify it.

Clause 2 is integral to the orderly abolition of NHS England. It empowers the Secretary of State to establish transfer schemes, which will provide a structured and transparent means of moving property, rights and liabilities from NHS England to the Department of Health and Social Care, the integrated care boards and other relevant bodies. This robust legal mechanism is required to ensure a responsible transfer of NHS England’s assets and staff. It ensures that all necessary legal powers and permissions for the transfer are in place, preventing uncertainty or loose ends for staff, patients, service users and partner organisations as NHS England is abolished. The clause allows provisions to be made similar to those under TUPE to ensure the protection of employment rights for staff who are transferred from NHS England. In addition, the clause allows for the shared ownership or use of property, ensuring that assets can be distributed and used in a way that supports service continuity for patients and the broader health system.

Clause 3, at its core, provides a power for His Majesty’s Treasury to ensure through regulations that transfers from NHSE to the DHSC, ICBs and other bodies are delivered smoothly and on a tax-neutral basis. In particular, it allows HM Treasury to make adjustments to how existing tax legislation applies to transfers of NHS England’s property, staff and liabilities in a scheme made under clause 2. That will ensure that no tax charges arise, and that neither NHS England nor the transferee organisations end up with a different tax position due to the organisational changes. Importantly, the scope of the power is tightly constrained: it applies only to specified existing taxes and only for the purpose of ensuring tax neutrality in relation to transfers made under clause 2. Without the power, there would be a risk that transfers could trigger unintended tax liabilities that would divert public money away from frontline services and undermine the policy intent of the legislation. Clause 3 therefore protects value for money and ensures that organisational change does not come with avoidable fiscal costs.

Without the changes made by clauses 1 to 3 we will not be able to meet the ambitions set out in the 10-year health plan. The abolition of NHS England, delivered in an orderly, proportionate and considered way that safeguards the interests of staff and taxpayers, is a necessary precondition for an NHS that is more effective for patients, delivers better outcomes across the country and achieves the ambitions that the public expect of us. I therefore commend the clauses to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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This is an interesting point, and it is always helpful to have one’s comments put back to one. I am happy to come back to this again. I ask my question again: do the Opposition oppose the abolition of NHS England? I do not think the Opposition oppose the abolition; they think it is the right thing to do. I appreciate that that was confirmed on Second Reading. As I have said before, the previous Government had the opportunity to do this in 2022 and chose not to. The fact that it has not been opposed suggests that it is the right thing to do.

As for what we found on coming into Government, we thought that delivering on our manifesto through the existing powers, flow of funds and priorities would be possible. We were clear that we did not seek this as an initial outcome, but having got into that position, we immediately found, even while developing the 10-year plan and bringing together one team, that it was not possible. I am afraid that the line through which ministerial intentions could be delivered was convoluted, and obstructed by various measures throughout the system. That independence—

Karin Smyth

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Sorry, I know that was not an intervention.

Karin Smyth

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I am happy to come back to it.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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Casting my mind back to before the weekend, we had a wide-ranging debate on clauses 1 to 3 but, I think, substantial agreement about the central proposition to abolish NHS England. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield, who succinctly put his finger on the key issue: it is fundamentally right that people and their elected representatives should be able to hold Ministers to account for the performance of the health service. It is also right that Ministers should have the tools to make the changes that are needed. The abolition is a necessary result of restoring that principle.

The debate raised a number of questions, a substantial number of which we will address during the course of the Committee as we reach the relevant clauses. However, I will pick up a couple now. I reassure the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston that the Government do take the impact of this process on staff seriously. We will treat people with the care, respect and fairness that they are owed through this process, now and in the months ahead. I am also committed to consulting recognised trade unions and I have a joint partnership forum to support ongoing engagement. More broadly, we recognise that change of this type is never easy, but we will need to go through the process quickly, which means, of necessity, proceeding in parallel with the legislation on the detailed internal design work for the new Department. That is in the interests of staff, patients and the public.

The hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham raised the issue of whether the Bill was the cause of delays to the workforce plan. To be clear, it has not been, and we will publish that imminently. She also asked about the opportunity costs for other programmes, and I assure her that the Department, NHS England and Ministers are clear that we are here to deliver the 10-year health plan and other changes that make a difference to patients. We can, should and will do several things at once, and the Bill will help us with that by providing clarity of roles, greater freedom to local organisations and other positive changes.

To take just one example of the real impact, we are already saving on agency costs, and this is the first time in many years that the Department has not had to go back to the Treasury for a further injection of cash mid-year. That is getting a grip on the system. I add that the opportunity costs of not acting are very clear to the public, to staff and to patients in every single staff or patient survey that is issued. Those are the opportunity costs of not doing something; that is why we are acting. Clauses 1 to 3 are a necessary requirement for an NHS that is more effective for patients, delivers better outcomes across the country and achieves the initiatives that are expected of us.

Karin Smyth

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I can tell the right hon. Member that we expect that NHS England coming into the Department will deliver up to about £1 billion in annual savings by the end of the Parliament, driven primarily by reductions in headcount, calculated using the average staff costs—about £77,000 per staff member in the Department and £94,000 per staff member in NHS England—including all pension and employer costs, which I think should help contribute to those numbers. As I think he knows, we will publish all accounts in the usual way.

I commend the three clauses to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 4

Reducing inequalities

Karin Smyth

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I am grateful to all hon. Members who tabled amendments in this group, some of which have not been spoken to. I will address the central points that Members have rightly highlighted. I am grateful to the Chair and members of the Health and Social Care Committee for their report and recommendations for the Bill.

Before I turn to the detail of the amendments, I will set out what clause 4 does. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East highlighted, the wider determinants of health inequalities are important. On the point that the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East made about the Labour party, they absolutely run through our DNA. Clause 4 restates and reaffirms our commitment to tackling health inequalities. It reformulates section 1C of the National Health Service Act 2006, aligning it with the duty imposed on NHS England by section 13G of that Act. It makes plain the need to achieve greater equality between the benefits that people receive and the provision of health services—for their ability to access those services and for the outcomes achieved. Importantly, “outcomes” includes the safety and effectiveness of health services and the quality of the experience undergone by patients. The clause will ensure that the Secretary of State must have regard to reducing inequalities in respect of all those benefits.

The wording of the revised duty more directly encapsulates the benefits that must be taken into consideration and obtained from the health service to support action that reduces or prevents inequalities. Fundamentally, the clause underpins our commitment to improving the health of the population and tackling the stark inequalities that blight the health of communities up and down the land, which have got worse over the past 14 years. That is central to this Government’s ambition, which is why we highlighted it in the 10-year health plan.

We also recognise that this is not a matter for the Department of Health and Social Care alone, which is why we are already working across Government to address the root causes of health inequalities and the barriers to accessing health and care services. We are ensuring that our action on health is embedded in policies that shape people’s daily lives, from the homes they live in to the air they breathe.

Karin Smyth

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The hon. Lady pre-empts my next comments. I absolutely agree with her, and so do the Government. That is why we are improving living conditions through the new decent homes standards, which set standards across all rented sectors. Awaab’s law requires social landlords to act promptly to fix housing hazards. Since coming into government, we have launched the warm homes plan, the Keep Britain Working review and the homelessness strategy. In April, we published a renewed women’s health strategy, marking a decisive shift to ensure that women and girls receive the care, respect and outcomes that they deserve. Last November, we published England’s first ever men’s health strategy, to improve the health and wellbeing of all men and boys. Within the Department, we are reviewing the Carr-Hill formula and the Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation to ensure the funding matches need.

However, there is much more to do. The Minister for Public Health and Prevention, my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South (Mrs Hodgson), will continue to engage with key stakeholders, including representatives of Health Equals. I have a meeting with representatives of that body this week.

I sympathise entirely with the motivation underpinning amendment 13, which was moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket, and I commend hon. Members for working on this important agenda, but I am not convinced that the amendment is necessary. I note that it draws on the duty that was recently placed on combined authorities by the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026, with a view to creating a similar duty for central Government.

Fortunately, I can reassure hon. Members that the Secretary of State already has a duty to secure improvement in the health of people in England, and the power to take such steps to improve public health as they consider appropriate. We would not want to narrow the definition of the existing duty, because health inequalities come from many causes, as has been discussed. As I have said, we are already working across central Government and local government to address those wider inequalities, including in housing and air quality, and by getting more people into work.

The hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham said that innovation might expand inequalities across our country, but we have seen a shocking expansion in the inequality gap across our country. That is what we are seeking to reverse, as we have made clear in our 10-year health plan, and the Bill will ensure that that happens. That is why we say that we will take the best to the rest; we are not about taking people down.

Finally, I turn to amendment 34 in the name of the hon. Member for Winchester. He has spoken before about his constituents’ experience, and I have spoken with him about the new hospital programme, his constituents’ reliance on transport to access hospital appointments, and the difficulties experienced in more rural areas, which the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East also mentioned. That is why, in our 10-year health plan, we are very clear about our strong commitment to rural and coastal communities—we are the first Government to do that.

We agree that reducing inequalities in hospital transport is important. The Bill already places a duty on the Secretary of State to

“have regard to the need to…reduce inequalities between the people of England with respect to their ability to access health services”.

Inequalities in access to transport to receive care fall under the scope of that duty. As such, the amendment is superfluous.

I also offer the reassurance that NHS England has been implementing a range of actions to reduce inequalities in patient transport, including the speeding up of reimbursement for patients eligible for the healthcare travel costs scheme. I also inform the Committee that the cancer plan included a commitment to provide up to £10 million a year to pay for the travel costs for cancer care for children and young people, and their families, as people have long campaigned for.

Some important issues have been raised in this debate, and I am sure that we will return to them. In the meantime, I ask my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket to withdraw the amendment. I commend clause 4 to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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I am grateful to the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham for bringing this discussion before the Committee. We almost went down a cataract rabbit hole, but I think the points were well made. I will outline the Government’s general approach to choice and then move on to the amendment.

I recognise that hon. Members from both sides of the Committee are committed to protecting and upholding patient choice in our system, as are the Government. That is why clause 5 introduces new duties that require the Secretary of State to promote

“the involvement of patients, and their carers and representatives”

in decisions relating to the prevention or diagnosis of their illness, and their care or treatment. That applies when the Secretary of State is exercising health functions.

The clause also requires the Secretary of State to

“act with a view to enabling patients to make choices”

about the health services provided to them. The Government are committed to involving patients and carers in decisions about their care. We know that supports a better experience of care and, in many cases, better outcomes. Furthermore, if they want to be, patients should be active participants in decisions about their own care, rather than passive recipients of services.

I appreciate the sentiment of the amendment in the name of the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, but I do not think it is necessary. It turns a general duty into one with more prescriptive detail, which risks adding complexity. Details on service types and operational details currently sit in secondary legislation, which allows them to be updated and amended as services evolve. I reassure the hon. Member that we will protect and maintain all the existing rights and duties set out in the choice regulations.

In any future consideration of expanding patient choice, which this amendment requests, I hope the hon. Member would agree that we would need to build up and test the evidence base to ensure that any changes were effective and meaningful for patients, before legislative changes were made. I am not sure what problem the hon. Member is trying to solve.

The Government are committed to protecting patients’ rights to choose. It is absolutely right that the duty to involve them in decisions will remain a central principle of the new health system and that patients are empowered to make informed, meaningful choices. I believe that the clause, unamended, does just that. For that reason, I ask the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment, and I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Karin Smyth

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I am grateful to hon. Members for bringing this discussion to the Committee. We heard about the excitement in our constituencies around innovation—my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon and Consett mentioned Newcastle University at the start and the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham mentioned her visit to Imperial College. Those visits are inspiring. Other universities and centres of excellence are available, but they made the case for why this is so important to the Government’s approach to innovation. I will talk about that and then turn to the amendment.

The Government are fully committed to innovation. It is absolutely central to our ambitious priorities to digitise health and care, support prevention and early diagnosis, and enable a shift to neighbourhood care, to growth in our economy, and to regaining our place in the world as a centre for innovation, which was lost under the Conservatives over those 14 years. That is why clause 6 places a clear duty on the Secretary of State to promote innovation in the provision of health services, including in how services are arranged and delivered.

The clause also incorporates the Secretary of State’s existing power to incentivise innovation and research through the payment of prizes, as we have discussed. That is a flexible tool that will allow him to stimulate breakthrough ideas and reward innovation across the life cycle, including an early-stage report.

On some issues that have been raised, the Conservative party knows that Ministers have to act reasonably as this transfers from NHS England, and we would obviously want to tailor a committee to the matter in question, including membership. The clause will allow that flexibility. The equivalent duty was on NHS England; I understand that it has not actually been used over the past five years, but it was previously suggested as a way of promoting innovation.

In practical terms, the Secretary of State already supports innovation in a number of ways, for example through the work of the Health Innovation Network, supporting workforce developments in schemes such as the clinical entrepreneur programme and providing funding support for developing and evaluating promising innovations.

Karin Smyth

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I am happy to come back to the hon. Lady if I am not correct in this, or if there is another reason, but in the existing duty and under NHS England, the committee’s membership needs to reflect the matter in the question. If there is anything to add to that, I will certainly come back to her. We are also committed to spending more on innovation, raising the NICE threshold to ensure that patients have access to more innovative medicines on the NHS. That is action, not just words.

The Government commend the intent behind the amendment tabled by the hon. Lady, and she spoke well about that. As a clinician, I recognise her support for innovation, but we recognise that barriers remain to the systematic spread of innovation. That is a long-term problem that existed under previous Governments as well, and we seek to rectify it. The ministerial foreword to the “Life Science Sector Plan” published last year says:

“We are clear-eyed about the challenges. For too long, the journey from discovery to delivery has been too slow, too fragmented, and too often held back by outdated systems.”

That is why we need to remove barriers at every stage of the journey; however, the amendment is the wrong way to do that.

The experience of supporting innovation in the NHS suggests that we need flexibility in our approach to tackle emerging barriers as they arise. Specifying several areas of focus in the Bill would limit that flexibility; those are better set out in published strategies and guidance, which is what we are doing. The amendment could also cause unintended consequences. It would create a one-size-fits-all approach, requiring all of England to have equivalent access to innovations. While tackling unwarranted variation is of course vital, we should continue our focus on providing access to innovation that best meets local needs.

Instead of over-defining what we mean by innovation in legislation, we are taking practical measures to drive it on the ground. We are already building the 10-year health plan and the life sciences sector plan to deliver an ambitious set of actions, which address the areas raised by the amendment including procurement, aligned regulation and the alignment of our NHS innovation policy with sector growth policy. That echoes our approach elsewhere in the Bill of devolving power to local levels and giving more opportunity to systems and organisations to innovate, and more agency to use their resources to do so.

The NHS has a strong record of developing and adopting new treatments, technologies and models of care. The clause will build on that record, signalling the Secretary of State’s clear commitment to promoting innovation, and it will do so in a flexible way that will allow us to respond to challenges as they emerge. For that reason, I ask the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham to withdraw her amendment, and I commend the clause the Committee.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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I thank hon. Members for bringing this discussion before the Committee. The Government are committed to ensuring that the NHS has the right people in the right place and with the right skills to care for patients when they need it. We will be publishing our 10-year workforce plan imminently. I cannot give the shadow Minister any more details on that at the moment, but it will set out the action to create a workforce that is ready to deliver the transformed service set out in the 10-year health plan. High-quality education and training for the NHS workforce will be fundamental to that, and clause 7 is in keeping with that commitment.

Before turning to the clause, I will address some of the issues raised during the debate and in the amendments. I understand the intention behind amendment 50, but I cannot accept it. The 10-year workforce plan will set out the staffing needs of the NHS for the next 10 years. That goes further than the amendment calls for and will be updated every two years in line with our manifesto commitment to publish regular, independent workforce planning. It is only because the Government have set such a clear direction for the service through the 10-year health plan that we can credibly set out a sustainable approach to staffing the NHS over the long term.

As hon. Members will understand, workforce planning is a complex topic. It is closely related to the wider service planning, which is why we have engaged so widely with independent experts to develop our forthcoming workforce plan. To divorce the process of workforce planning from service planning in the way that is suggested by amendment 50 would not produce a more reliable or useful set of forecasts. However, it would reduce the potential for innovation and reform of the kind that is needed and which the Government have set out so clearly in the 10-year plan for the NHS. I can only conclude from listening to Opposition Members that they really did learn absolutely nothing from their time in office or, indeed, from the problems with their workforce plan, which focused on headcount but notably did not reform care, did not look at new patterns of care, did not look at retention or training, and created some of the bottlenecks and problems that we have had to deal with.

Our commitment will be guided by the workforce plan, which is why we cannot accept new clause 44. Decisions on training numbers must be guided by workforce need, and that will have to be considered as part of the forthcoming plan. Adding to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket, whatever the Government’s position on the number of medical school places that will be required in the future, fixing a number in primary legislation would be unhelpful as it would limit our ability to adjust target training numbers subsequently to reflect any changes in workforce need.

I was asked about correcting the record. The last Government did double places in their 2024 workforce plan, and I commend the movement of medical schools across the country. If the former Secretary of State is reported in Hansard as having said something contrary to the correction of the record by my hon. Friend the Minister for Care, we will of course pick that up.

Amendment 54 and new clause 45 look to reduce flexibility and increase bureaucracy for a workforce that is simply trying to deliver what is best for patients. On amendment 54, I think we can all agree that we need strong leadership and management to deliver national priorities, including the 10-year plan’s three shifts. Having a clinical voice in management positions is vital and many of our board-level and senior leaders are also clinicians. While some choose to carry on with clinical practice, others might prioritise their managerial role, and it is right that they should have that flexibility. Prescribing that all NHS managers with clinical experience must also undertake clinical care risks reducing board capacity and expertise, including clinical leadership, and disincentivising opportunities for management experience at a time when the NHS has seen a reduction in the number of managers per NHS staff from 2010 to 2025. We do not think that simply prescribing that requirement would benefit clinicians, managers or, crucially, the wider health service, so we oppose the amendment.

New clause 45 would require the collection of further data on the proportion of time spent on clinical care. Detailed statistics on the number of staff working for NHS provider trusts broken down by profession and pay band are already published by NHS England on a monthly basis. Adding requirements to that is not simple. There is not a centrally held collection of data about NHS staff time, and setting one up would have costs both centrally and for NHS trusts to collect specific data. It is also not easy to separate out clinical care meaningfully. Clinicians spend time in supervision, education, safeguarding, quality improvement and clinical leadership, and the amount of time they spend on different activities can vary from month to month. The new clause risks putting more burdens on NHS staff if they are being asked to record what they are spending time on beyond existing procedures. We therefore cannot accept it.

I turn to amendment 33, which was moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket, on workforce training. It would require the Secretary of State to intervene in the content and design of healthcare programmes. Standards of proficiency, conduct and performance of registered professionals are the statutory responsibility of independent healthcare regulators, although universities and practice partners develop the specific content and design of programmes to meet those standards. It is vital that the independence of regulators and universities is maintained to respect their expertise in designing standards and curricula that ensure public safety.

We have published our 10-year health plan setting out major NHS reforms, including moving from sickness to prevention. Supporting healthcare workers to address the wider determinants of health will be essential to delivering that shift. That is why we are providing the “All Our Health” e-learning on critical public healthcare topics for people working in the health and care sector, and revitalising the “making every contact count” approach to ensure that every contact that a person has with the healthcare system supports a shift to prevention.

I assure colleagues that our upcoming 10-year workforce plan will set out plans for ensuring that we train the staff we need so that we have the brightest people and the right skills to support patients. For those reasons, I ask my hon. Friend to withdraw the amendment.

Finally, I turn to clause 7. The Secretary of State already has an overarching duty in relation to the education and training of the NHS workforce. Currently, that duty is partially delegated to NHS England. NHS England also has a duty to ensure that there are sufficient numbers of appropriately trained healthcare workers across England. Clause 7 will simply merge those existing duties into a single, robust education and training duty on the Secretary of State.

The Secretary of State will be entirely responsible and accountable for exercising relevant functions with a view to ensuring that there is an effective system for the planning and delivery of healthcare education and training, and that we have enough healthcare workers with the right training to meet England’s health service needs. Bringing those duties directly under the responsibility of the Secretary of State will reduce bureaucracy, streamline oversight and enable the Government to provide national strategic leadership across the NHS workforce.

I reassure colleagues that accountability will not be diluted. Bringing these responsibilities into the Department will create clearer, stronger lines of accountability with the education and training of the NHS workforce. Ultimately, the Secretary of State will continue to be accountable to Parliament for the health service in England, including for the planning of education and training and ensuring sufficient numbers of trained healthcare workers. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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Clause 8 will give the Secretary of State the power to direct integrated care boards to exercise his or her functions. This power, similar to that currently employed by NHS England, will promote subsidiarity by enabling such functions to be delivered at the lowest appropriate level. The clause builds on the existing section 7B of the National Health Service Act 2006, which allows the Secretary of State to direct ICBs but only in respect of public health functions.

With our plans to abolish NHS England, the Secretary of State will again have broad powers and responsibility relating to the health service, and so this power encompasses a wider range of functions. Unlike the delegated frameworks set out under sections 65Z5 and 75 of the 2006 Act, which are entered into voluntarily, any integrated care board directed under this power would be obliged to carry out the stated functions.

I reassure the Committee that, while the ICB will be legally responsible for how it discharges a function, overall accountability will remain with the Secretary of State. Furthermore, the Secretary of State might also use directions to place restrictions on the onward delegation of any functions, preventing delegation where it may be inappropriate. Finally, any directions must be published, ensuring transparency and allowing proper accountability.

This measure will empower the Secretary of State to assign functions to ICBs where most appropriate. It aligns with and facilitates our broader direction of travel towards flexibly planned and delivered local services. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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I recognise that this is a subject of some debate; we may discuss it further when we come to the part of the Bill on ICBs. The abolition of NHS England and transferring all its functions to one body has a consequence, which is that the Secretary of State retains that accountability and power. We are keen to have that power clear but flexible in order to empower local systems. That remains the intent.

The power is necessary for the Secretary of State to update national commissioning standards, for example. The ICBs will have wider roles as strategic commissioners. We expect them to take on formal responsibility for a number of services delegated by NHS England. That allows us to issue a common set of commissioning standards, on the point made by the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon about variability in different places. There need to be common standards across the piece: eligibility criteria, the treatments the provider should use, and national reporting requirements. ICBs having those standards means that there will be a reduction in unwarranted variation in some of these events.

The shadow Minister raised the timetable. The Opposition will recognise that there needs to be flexibility for the Secretary of State and Ministers to respond to unforeseen or changing events. That is why it is purposely broad, because the range of events that can impact the NHS is clearly very broad. We cannot predict the future.

The hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon said that the Bill needs to deal with all these problems. The Bill needs to give enough flexibility to the system and devolve as much power to the system. The Bill needs to make sure that the powers are in the right place, but it is for the local systems to respond to their local needs within that framework. They will be held accountable, for example through the NHS oversight framework and through ICBs’ normal accountability frameworks.

Karin Smyth

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With due respect to the hon. Lady, it is not a matter of the Minister being busy, whether that is me or anybody else. It is about the operational running of a £200 billion organisation with 1.5 million staff treating millions of people every day. I am sure we all remember from our own experience incidents and unforeseen events that have happened in the local system, and sometimes very tragic events that have required the Secretary of State to take action. We are trying not to increase the number of reports and documentation and to rid the system of bureaucracy by putting something out in that timeline.

Karin Smyth

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No, I have finished.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 8 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 9

Secretary of State’s power to provide assistance

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Karin Smyth

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Clause 9, which will insert new section 12DA into the National Health Service Act 2006, will give the Secretary of State a clear statutory duty to provide financial, staffing or other practical assistance in connection with the health service. The power may be used to support persons providing, or proposing to provide, services as part of the health service or which are beneficial to the interests of the health service. It may also be used to support public authorities where the assistance relates to education or training for people employed, or considering becoming employed, in activities connected with the provision of health services. The assistance may include financial assistance, the services of civil servants or other resources of the Secretary of State, and it may be provided on agreed terms, including terms about payments by or to the Secretary of State.

The clause will support the wider purpose of the Bill by enabling a small centre to act in a supportive and enabling way towards the wider system. Where appropriate, the Secretary of State will be able to provide assistance directly to those delivering or supporting health service activity. The clause is needed because the existing statutory framework does not include a clear power that enables the Secretary of State to provide practical support across the full range of health service activity. Relevant support may be financial, practical, staffing-related or connected with education and training.

Without this clear power, there is a genuine risk of confusion about the basis on which such support may be offered, particularly where the Secretary of State is acting to facilitate the delivery of services by others. The power is permissive and facilitative: it does not require the Secretary of State to provide assistance, and it does not require any person or body to accept it. The power is also limited by its connection to the health service and matters relevant to education, training or activities considered beneficial to the health service. Its exercise remains subject to ordinary public law principles and public financial controls. For those reasons, I commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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In concluding the debate on this part of the Bill, the Opposition have helpfully made most of my arguments for me. The hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham opened with reference to the pandemic and the unusual circumstances in which we have found ourselves. It is obviously important that this Government learn the lessons from that pandemic in the round, that we are prepared and that, as NHS England is abolished, those powers come back to the Secretary of State so that we can respond to any eventuality that comes before us.

As the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon said, there are existing standards and rules of procurement. Any spending that happens through the Department and the NHS will be publicly recorded and published in the Department of Health’s consolidated accounts. Those come before Parliament, so there is direct transparency through the parliamentary process in the usual way and, as we all know and as the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon said, Treasury rules apply.

The point about the use of civil servants has been made. Again, it is really important that we recognise that we are bringing together NHS England, NHS staff and civil servants in the Department. It is right that the Secretary of State, in whatever eventuality comes before him or her, is able to deploy the right person for the right job, be they a civil servant or someone currently under NHS staff terms and conditions, to support that work going forward. The clause is necessarily flexible and broad to provide for those eventualities, and to enable the necessary assistance to be deployed. I commend clause 9 to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 10

Secretary of State’s duty as respects variation in provision of health services

Karin Smyth

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I will respond to that question before picking up the other comments. If I do not address all the Committee’s comments, I will come back to Members.

Everyone would expect this, but let me be clear: this Government are absolutely committed to a free-at-the-point-of-use, taxpayer-funded service. We also think that unless it is reformed and changed, it is an existential problem for the British public, who will not continue to support the service. As Members know, one Parliament can never bind another one, so I cannot predict what a future Government will do. There is talk from some of our Reform colleagues about an insurance-based system. There are people who were in the Conservative party but have moved over who think that, so obviously I cannot—

Karin Smyth

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I will make some points, and then I will be happy take the hon. Lady’s intervention if I do not address what she was going to say.

The hon. Member for North Shropshire outlined some of the history. This clause seeks to strike a balance. The governing principle behind it is that the decisions of the Secretary of State must not vary the proportion of providers by the type of legal entity that they are. Decisions must be taken according to what serves the health service and the people who depend on it. The clause permits, by way of exception, the balance between sectors to be varied purposefully, but only where doing so would be in the interests of the health service. That would, for example, prevent the Secretary of State from deliberately choosing to grow the proportion of NHS services delivered by private providers for solely ideological reasons.

I understand the concern that drives the amendment. It is that the exception might be relied on to support the convenience of those already providing the service, without taking into account what is best for patients, as the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham said. That is not the Government’s position, and the clause does not lead to that outcome. The test that it creates is whether the interests of the health services are served.

As the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham also said, the definition of the health service—as defined under section 1 of the National Health Service Act 2006—is not separate from the people it exists to serve. It is defined as “a comprehensive health service” for “the people of England”, directed at improving their health and at the “prevention, diagnosis and treatment” of illness. A decision to rely on the exception must be justified by reference to that duty; one taken merely because it was easier or more convenient for existing providers or any other group, with no such justification, would be unlawful. The protection that she seeks is, in substance, already secured by the clause.

The amendment would also create another difficulty. Section 1 of the 2006 Act reaches the entire population and includes the prevention of illness before anyone becomes a patient at all. The “interests of patients” reaches only those already receiving care, which is a narrower test than I think the hon. Lady intended, and would allow a Secretary of State who was so minded to provide a landscape that ignores vital preventive health and wellbeing concerns. I hope that she will take from my remarks an assurance that the clause already meets her concerns.

The hon. Lady also highlighted the example of PFI—a subject of much discussion over many years—and of being unable to change her whiteboard. That is absolutely one of the lessons that needs to be learned from the way in which some past PFIs were procured and dealt with. For example, as a new Government, we outlined proposals for a new model of public-private partnerships for neighbourhood health centres, among other things. The previous Government could also have learned the lessons and done something about that, but they chose instead to completely halt the building of any kind of facilities. That is one reason why we are in such a shocking state at the moment. The new proposal outlines, as I think the Opposition know, an 80:20 funding route, exactly to make the point about which is the most efficient way forward. That will absolutely drive measures for growth and create more jobs in the sector.

Karin Smyth

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I refer the hon. Gentleman back to my comments. The health service is defined under section 1 of the NHS Act 2006 as not being separate from the people it exists to serve. It is defined as “a comprehensive health service” for “the people of England”, directed at improving their health and at the “prevention, diagnosis and treatment” of illness—so, yes.

At this juncture, I will explain a number of other features of the clause. In particular, I draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that it builds on section 12E of the 2006 Act to cover the Secretary of State’s health functions, powers and duties. It recognises that, with the abolition of NHS England, the Secretary of State has a far more substantial role to play—as a commissioner of services, for example—than previously. I also put on the record that whenever the Secretary of State takes a decision in this space, the general NHS procurement requirements and other statutory duties will continue to apply.

Finally, the NHS relies on privately owned providers, as well as charities and community organisations, to provide a range of important NHS-funded services across the country. As such, it is important to ensure that, where there is a mixed-market provision between public and private for providers of a particular service, the Government’s powers are not used to distort the provision and potentially discourage important investment from outside the NHS. Conversely, they should not be used purposefully to favour independent providers over NHS providers for reasons unrelated to the quality or efficiency of NHS-funded healthcare.

Karin Smyth

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The hon. Lady tempts me to delve into the politics of future Secretaries of State. They will respond according to the manifesto on which they are elected by the British public. That is the point of a democratically accountable public service. I think that the clause strikes that balance, as I have said. For those reasons, I hope that the hon. Lady will withdraw her amendment. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Karin Smyth

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We have a clear political and—as I think the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham said—philosophical division here. This Government believe in democratic accountability, in politics and in good government. I understand that both Opposition parties were architects of the 2012 Act, which created this huge, independent body to run what has become a £200 billion service that clearly has not worked, and that they want to hold on to some of that, despite not opposing the Bill on Second Reading and, actually, not really opposing the abolition of NHS England—I think we will keep returning to that—but we believe that, ultimately, the Secretary of State needs to be accountable for the service, which is not working as the British public deserve or expect.

The hon. Lady asked me to go into good variation and bad variation. Our drive has been to understand the variation. I know from Members of Parliament who have come to me in the past two years, and we understand from looking in detail at the variation across the service, that there is often no rationale for the variation. Local people do not understand why services work better in one part of their county, even, than in another. The hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon alluded to that when he mentioned some places in his area that are working better than others. That is why—and I personally wanted to drive this very strongly—we are getting more information out, releasing the outcomes framework and releasing information to all Members of Parliament about where and how the current data shows their local systems are performing. That is what local people need, and in my view good local parliamentarians, of whom there are very many, should be able to go back to talk to their local systems and chief executives about why that is—not to berate them, but to understand it. There might be a very good cause for the variation; there might be structural reasons or geographical reasons, and they might be long-standing reasons. That is what we seek to do in order to regain the trust and confidence of the British public, and that is why we are publishing those documents.

I stand by my comments that my approach is more local than centralised. This is about changing the culture, which we seek to do by making that happen more locally. I absolutely get the points about operational freedom and the balance that we will seek when we release the operating model, which is being worked on in the Department, as we bring the new system into being, alongside the Bill.

However, we want to be very clear that when an ICB has failed or is at risk of failure, and that failure is significant, it is right that the Secretary of State has the tools to minimise the impact on patients and the public and to act swiftly to put things right. The public rightly expect that, in such circumstances, Ministers will take the necessary steps to protect patients, taxpayers and the public. In some cases of significant failure, that may include directing an ICB and removing the chief executive.

I am sure that all Members here today will agree that effective performance management of ICBs will continue to be essential once NHS England is abolished, not only to support the provision of a quality service, but to reassure the people served by ICBs that when things go wrong, they will be put right.

Karin Smyth

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I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, and I will come on to the power.

As hon. Members are aware, NHS England currently holds similar powers, so it makes sense for these powers to be held by the Secretary of State once NHS England is abolished. I want to be clear—I hope that this will address the hon. Lady’s point—that our intention is to use these significant failure powers rarely and not as a first port of call. It is far better to work closely with ICBs and their leaders to spot issues and work collaboratively to resolve them before they have the opportunity to become significant, but it would be irresponsible not to have the power to intervene as a last resort.

I want to address the other elements of clause 11. The first part of the clause establishes a general power for the Secretary of State to direct integrated care boards about the exercise of their functions. Using that power, the Secretary of State could direct a singular ICB, a group of ICBs or all ICBs, depending on the scope of the direction. This power is a necessary step in restoring democratic control over the NHS. The public rightly expect Ministers to be able to set priorities, drive improvements and set out how they expect the NHS to operate. For example, we expect to use the power to set up and update national commissioning standards.

The power is particularly relevant given the wider commissioning responsibilities ICBs will have in their role as strategic commissioners following the abolition of NHS England. By setting standards for all ICBs, the power will help reduce the unwarranted variation in the way that ICBs discharge their functions. It is also an important tool for enabling Ministers to respond to changing events. The lack of such a power has slowed the ability of NHS England to respond to unforeseen challenges within the health system.

I can also give the Committee an assurance that the clause includes a considered set of limits on the scope of the power. The Secretary of State will not be able to direct ICBs to appoint a particular individual, issue a direction about the services to be provided to an individual, or direct the use of a drug treatment or diagnostic technique where that is inconsistent with NICE guidance or recommendations. Equally, to maintain transparency in the health system, directions made under the general power to direct ICBs as to the exercise of their functions will be required to be made in writing and to be published as soon as reasonably practical. The power will enable the Secretary of State to uphold the standards that patients expect and deserve, while also protecting the principles of fairness and impartiality at the heart of the NHS.

We have already addressed much of the second part of the clause, but I should note that we have purposely placed the powers to intervene in cases of significant failure outside the general power of direction over ICBs. That is because it is important to be clear that those powers are expected to be used only rarely and in situations where an ICB is failing or at risk of failing.

I hope the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham feels able to withdraw her amendment. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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Clause 12 inserts new section 3B into the National Health Service Act 2006, re-establishing the responsibility of the Secretary of State to commission services. Although we intend ICBs to commission the vast majority of services, as we discussed this morning, we will use this regulation-making power to set out the small number of specialised services that the Secretary of State will be responsible for. That may include, for example, proton beam therapy, alongside a small number of other specialist services not currently suitable for ICB commissioning, such as gender dysphoria services and clinical genomics. By their nature, those are services to which national commissioning is appropriate because, for example, they have fewer patients or providers, greater or changeable costs, or they require specialist clinical expertise and input. Having a regulation-making power allows us to future-proof the system and update the regulations when new services or treatments emerge, or when services become cheaper or mainstream and therefore sit better with ICBs.

I now turn to amendment 57, which was tabled in the name of the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham. I recognise that any change to the way these services are commissioned matters enormously to the patients who depend on them. The hon. Lady used the word “worried”, and I understand that. Any change must be made with the greatest of care. However, the amendment would require the Secretary of State, before any regulations are made that alter the range of nationally commissioned services and regardless of the scale of the change, to publish a transition plan covering seven prescribed matters, to consult five prescribed categories of persons for a minimum of 12 weeks, to publish a response to that consultation and then to wait a minimum of 60 days before the regulations can be made.

As I have said, I understand and share the concern about continuity of care and the careful allocation of responsibility that lies behind it, but the proposals in amendment 57 are not the right way to address that concern. It proposes a fixed sequence of steps with minimum time periods that would apply to every change without exception. Taken together, the prescribed steps would add the better part of half a year to any change, including changes that are minor or technical, or that, for reasons of clinical safety, need to be expedited. That would create delays for patients and uncertainty for the wider system over where commissioning responsibility sits.

I would like to offer assurance on some of the concerns raised today. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon and Consett, who has spoken to me regularly about her concerns, for the work that she does in this area. I also commend the Lib Dem spokesperson, the hon. Member for North Shropshire, for her work on spinal cord injuries. I have met the chair of the APPG on spinal cord injury to discuss this topic. I would like to thank Bristol Councillor Kelvin Blake, who has a spinal cord injury and who for many years has impressed on me the difficulties faced by people with spinal cord injuries who are wheelchair dependent. I commend the work of people with these conditions who, as the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham said, struggle through a system that they should not have to struggle through. We want to make sure that these changes are assured, and I commit to working with hon. Members to do that as the Bill goes through.

I can assure the Committee that any significant change to nationally commissioned services will be accompanied by proportionate and appropriate engagement with patients, clinicians and the bodies affected. Change will always proceed according to appropriate transition arrangements. Each service, as hon. Members know, has very different patient needs and commissioning requirements, and demands different skills to commission effectively. The framework the Government are proposing will enable the Department to manage these processes flexibly and proportionately.

The hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham asked about arrangements for new organisations. In a changing organisation where people are coming forward for redundancy and in a new organisation that is taking shape, it is important that the executive looks at all redundancy requests and changing needs with regard for critical business infrastructure and the retention of skills. That is what we are currently doing.

The hon. Lady also asked about funding. The Bill allows the Secretary of State to set out which ICB pays for whom, and there are clear rules for people in prisons and those not registered with a GP currently under the guidance of court, which is called “Who Pays?” There are also long-standing processes for ICBs to pay each other as needed. The hon. Lady also asked about high security mental health services; I can assure her that we have no plans to ask the private sector to provide services. The power to direct has been updated to ensure that directions would bite on non-NHS providers if that changes in future.

Clause 13, which is part of this group, is a technical clause that permits the Secretary of State or an integrated care board to confer on a person discretion in relation to anything that is to be provided under the commissioning arrangement. In practice, this means that they could undertake some activities traditionally carried out by a commissioner, such as reviewing how services are provided for a population and designing the way that those services will be delivered within the parameters set by the commissioner. These activities would be clearly set out and measured under the contract, and the commissioner would retain overall responsibility for the delivery of their functions. Currently, integrated care boards are already permitted to do this, and with the transfer of NHS England’s commissioning powers to the Secretary of State, we propose a similar approach for services that are commissioned nationally.

I hope that I have been able to reassure the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, and that she will withdraw her amendment. I commend clauses 12 and 13 to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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Primary care is the front door to the NHS and is critical to delivering our neighbourhood health agenda. The neighbourhood health service will bring care into local communities, ending fragmentation and preventing unnecessary hospital admissions. To support that, alongside clause 14, which I will discuss shortly, we have tabled new clauses 22 and 23 and new schedule 1, to strengthen action in the event of local pharmacy challenges and streamline the appeals process.

On new clause 22, many hon. Members will know how the closure of a local pharmacy can significantly affect a community. Pharmacies close for a range of reasons: voluntary closure, business failure or emergencies affecting the premises or surrounding area. Even where a pharmacy remains open, unforeseen or unexpected events can disrupt access for local people.

The NHS Act 2006 sets out how ICBs should commission pharmaceutical services in normal circumstances and what can be done if those arrangements fail. Section 133 of the Act is intended to deal with exceptional situations where standard commissioning processes are too slow and rapid action is needed to restore provision while long-term solutions are put in place, if required. However, the current wording of section 133 is widely interpreted as applying only to large-scale national emergencies, as it refers to inadequate provision affecting a significant number of people. It is unclear whether that would cover more localised situations, such as a village cut off by flooding following a bridge collapse, or where the only pharmacy serving an area closes unexpectedly, creating an urgent unmet need, as we have seen happen. It is also unclear how the Secretary of State would authorise alternative arrangements.

To address those issues, new clause 22 ensures that ICBs can respond swiftly to exceptional circumstances, regardless of scale. It removes the unnecessary provision for the Secretary of State to make arrangements himself and clarifies that authorisation to ICBs should be given through directions. The directions will be limited to six months, with the possibility to extend further if required. This change maintains appropriate national oversight while preventing misuse of the powers. It is a sensible and proportionate amendment that gives the system the flexibility it needs in exceptional circumstances while retaining proper safeguards.

New clause 23 and new schedule 1 simplify the appeal framework for NHS pharmaceutical services by allowing appeals that are currently split between different routes to be heard by a single appeal authority. At present, where concerns arise about a pharmacy contractor, different appeal routes may apply depending on whether a case is characterised as one of fitness or of performance. In practice, however, that distinction is not always clear and the current system can create unnecessary complexity and duplication.

New clause 23 and new schedule 1 address that problem, providing for such appeals to be heard through a single route, which we intend to designate in regulations as NHS Resolution. It is a practical and proportionate change; NHS Resolution already has substantial experience in handling disputes involving NHS pharmaceutical services and is well placed to provide a clear, consistent and independent route of appeal. Importantly, this measure does not change the position in relation to the fitness to practise of individual pharmacy professions. Cases concerning individual practitioners will continue to be dealt with separately by the General Pharmaceutical Council.

By simplifying the framework, this measure will help to ensure that related issues can be considered more coherently, reduce fragmentation in decision making and support the effective oversight of NHS pharmaceutical services. In short, it aligns the appeal system more closely with operational practice, reduces unnecessary complexity and preserves the appropriate safeguards for individual practitioners.

The remaining Government amendments are consequential on those changes, or are technical changes that have emerged as necessary following drafting of the wider Bill. I will speak to new clause 21 in particular, as it updates section 132 of the 2006 Act so that the legislation reflects current commissioning arrangements for pharmaceutical services. Section 132 currently allows, in addition to retail pharmacy business, arrangements to be made with individual doctors and dentists for the provision of pharmaceutical services.

That wording reflects an early model of care. In practice today, arrangements for primacy medical services are made with GP practices, not individual general practitioners, and patient lists are held at practice level. New clause 21 therefore brings the legislation into line with the way services are already commissioned and delivered. It will mean that, where such arrangements are made with dispensing doctors, they are made with GP practices rather than individual GPs. It also removes provision to make such arrangements with dentists, to reflect the fact that that provision is redundant.

In summary, new clause 21 is a technical amendment, which does not change current practice but simply updates the statute book to reflect modern NHS arrangements. Patients in rural areas eligible to receive medicines from the dispensing doctors will continue to receive that service as they do now.

Karin Smyth

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The changes here, as I have outlined, are bringing practices in line in terms of the regulation. I think the issue my hon. Friend really addresses is the arrangement between those local practices and the ICB as the commissioner on where the service is provided. Ordinarily a commissioner would seek to make sure that a rural area had provision from somewhere in particular; I am happy to talk to my hon. Friend outside the Committee if there is a problem in his local area.

Karin Smyth

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I have enjoyed the “back to the good old days” of the Lib Dem-Tories. They tell us we live in fractured political parties, but I quite like the old days.

On new clause 2, I understand the intention that GP provision is important to us all and to our constituents. We have recruited over 2,000 more GPs since 2024—the highest number of qualified GPs since 2015—and there is provision to ringfence money for even more. We all know the importance of timely access to general practice, and patients need to be confident that they can get that care urgently and receive it promptly.

We are seeing improving signs. According to the ONS, the number of people who say it is now easy to contact their GP practice is up 14% since 2024, and that satisfaction is rising. Importantly, 69% of patients are seen within seven days and 44% are seen within the one day that they have requested an appointment, irrespective of urgency. That is the progress that we are encouraging, but we are not complacent; we recognise that there is more to do.

We also recognise that not everyone not seen within seven days is experiencing an unnecessary delay. Not every patient requires an appointment within seven days, and many people book appointments in advance for routine reviews, medication checks, to ensure that they see their preferred clinician or to fit around work and other life responsibilities. The new clause would cut across that flexibility by imposing a more rigid approach to appointment allocation, weakening both clinical judgment and patient preference. We do not believe that would be the best for patients or safe care. We must protect both clinical judgment and patient choice. We therefore cannot support the new clause.

We are clear that if someone is unwell and a doctor needs to see them urgently, they should be seen that same day. NHS England’s medium-term planning framework, which was published in October 2025, sets out an ambition for all clinically urgent appointments to be delivered on the same day, ensuring that patients assessed as needing urgent care are prioritised appropriately. We have made changes to regulations to require clinically urgent requests to be dealt with on the same day to support that ambition within the 2026-27 GP contract. We will publish data on that progress soon.

On new clause 52, we know that dentistry is broken and that we need to rebuild it. That includes ensuring an urgent care safety net across the country by reforming the dental contract and developing the 10-year workforce plan This new clause is unnecessary; we have delivered 1.8 million more dental treatments, and from April we began introducing a package of reforms to address some of the pressing issues that dentists and dental teams have been experiencing. Those reforms will prioritise those with the greatest need, shifting care away from clinically unnecessary check-ups. We are also including dental school places, and we will make more provision in our upcoming workforce plan.

The Government are committed to more fundamental contract reform by the end of this Parliament, which will include publicly consulting on future proposals. I make no apologies for taking the time to get that right. The issues are complex; this has not been done for a long time and there is no consensus on the perfect approach. On that basis, I commend clause 14 to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 14 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 1

Conferral of primary care functions on integrated care boards etc

Amendments made: 14, in schedule 1, page 60, line 19, leave out sub-paragraph (2).

This is consequential on NC21.

Amendment 15, in schedule 1, page 60, line 26, leave out “(a), (b), (c) and”.

This is consequential on NC21.

Amendment 16, in schedule 1, page 60, line 36, leave out paragraph 46.

This is consequential on NC22.

Amendment 17, in schedule 1, page 65, line 5, leave out paragraph 65.

This is consequential on NS1.

Amendment 18, in schedule 1, page 75, line 1, at end insert—

“(4) In subsection (5), in the definition of ‘relevant area’, after paragraph (b) insert—

‘(ba) in relation to an integrated care board, in a case where a person has at any time provided or performed services by arrangement or contract with the board, means the prescribed area (at the prescribed time).’”—(Karin Smyth.)

This adds an amendment to section 259 of the NHS Act 2006 that is consequential on the transfer to integrated care boards of NHS England’s commissioning functions in respect of primary care.

Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned.—(Emma Foody.)

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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Patients and the public have a critical role in shaping our health services. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon for tabling the amendment, as moved by the hon. Member for North Shropshire. I will discuss the amendment with the wider question of whether the clause should stand part of the Bill.

To be clear, the Government are committed to engaging with patients and the public about the services they use. Services shaped together with the people who rely on them are better services. We want to see deep and collaborative ways of working between patients, public and the NHS. Across the country, there are good examples of that from which we want to learn. That is why the clause requires the Secretary of State to involve patients and the public in the planning of commissioning arrangements, the development and consideration of proposals for service change, and decisions that may affect how services are delivered or the range of services available.

The clause is intended to encourage early engagement and meaningful involvement in service change, thereby helping to build legitimacy, trust and better-informed commissioning decisions. As a duty, it covers the entire end-to-end commissioning cycle. I have been a commissioner myself, so although I will not detain the Committee too much on that, it is indeed part of the job of a commissioner to do that at a very early stage.

I also draw attention to the fact that the clause places a statutory duty on the Secretary of State to make arrangements to ensure the involvement of individuals who use or may use health services, together with carers and representatives, where appropriate, in commissioning activity. That duty is purposely broad, covering both existing service users and those who may reasonably rely on services in future, and will support preventive approaches and enable the consideration of wider population health impacts.

We made the deliberate choice to include specific references to carers and representatives, recognising that some individuals may require support to participate effectively in engagement and decision-making processes. That is particularly important where barriers such as disability, communications needs, sometimes age, vulnerability or unequal access may otherwise limit participation. We are ensuring that involvement is inclusive and meaningful, which I think is what all hon. Members want to see.

Specifically on amendment 28, I gently caution against creating an implication of different approaches to patient involvement for different parts of the system, leading to a two-track approach and unnecessary confusion. Instead, we propose a Government commitment to ensure meaningful consultation. We support co-production and will continue to champion it, but we do not think it necessary to put it on the face of the Bill.

The Government support involving patients and the public at every stage, and we recognise that working closely with the people and communities affected by commissioning decisions brings valuable insight into service quality, accessibility, equity and effectiveness. We will use the duties and powers available to Ministers to ensure that that principle is embedded across the work of the NHS. I hope, therefore, that the hon. Member for North Shropshire has some reassurance and will withdraw her amendment. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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There are a number of amendments in the group. Amendment 35 was not moved but as the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon spoke to it, I will comment on that amendment, which is in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis). Community equipment and wheelchair services are really important to us and—to allay the concerns of the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon—that is why the medium-term planning framework requires that, from this year, all ICBs and community health services must actively manage and reduce waits over 18 weeks and develop a plan to eliminate all 52-week waits. I assure the Committee that we will hold the ICBs for their performance. The community health services situation report has a specific monitoring line, covering children and young people and covering adults, for the wheelchair, orthotics, prosthetics and equipment category. We intend to continue that work following NHS England’s abolition. Consistent national standards will help us to identify the best and the weakest-performing areas, to identify what improvements need to be made and to tackle the longest waits.

Amendment 52 was tabled by the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham. We are committed to ensuring that all patients receive the NHS care they need in a timely manner, and I recognise the importance that Committee members have placed on that matter. The NHS constitution sets out that patients should start consultant-led treatment within 18 weeks of referral, and it is imperative that the system continues to work towards returning to and then upholding that standard.

I listened with great care to the comments from Members on the Opposition Benches, but I was here—as were you, Dr Huq—during the last couple of Parliaments; I was here as waiting lists rose and rose after 2012, under the previous Government’s stewardship, until they reached 4 million people, all waiting an inordinate amount of time. That Government had no kind of approach to reducing the numbers; they were quite content to have 4 million people on waiting lists, and to never bring forward measures to change that. They were quite content not to challenge NHS England or trust boards about why people across the country in all our constituencies were languishing on those lists. We are determined to resolve that situation.

Karin Smyth

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I will move on. It is absolutely right that integrated care boards, as local commissioners, retain the ability to manage their services and waiting lists effectively, given the shocking numbers that they have inherited. This is complicated, difficult work: commissioners have to balance demand, capacity and clinical need, and a prohibition such as the one set out in the amendment would threaten to remove legitimate flexibilities that are required at the local level to ensure that services are delivered safely and efficiently.

We are clear that systems should not be setting minimum wait times that exceed the 18-week constitutional standard, but hon. Members will appreciate that not all elements of waiting are inappropriate. In many cases, they reflect clinical pathways, sequencing of care or the need to prioritise the most urgent patients. It is imperative that clinical judgment and urgency remain the key drivers of prioritisation, which is something the amendment threatens to remove.

Turning to amendment 52, I recognise that Members across the House are committed to ensuring that all patients receive the NHS care they need in a timely manner. Validation is a routine and long-standing part of waiting list management by providers. It ensures that patient records are accurate, that patients are on the best pathway to meet their needs and that they still need their appointments. Routinely validated waiting lists will support a return to the 18-week NHS constitutional standard.

Reasons for removal as a result of validation include a patient no longer needing their appointment or there being a duplicate appointment. The previous Government left behind some systems and trusts in such a poor condition that they give out duplicate appointments, and we need to resolve that as part of our work. Other reasons for removal include a patient’s record not being properly updated following treatment or a clinical decision—another sign of the inefficiency that the previous Government left behind.

Karin Smyth

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Once again, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is expert on this issue and has outlined to us some excellent clinical examples. I look forward to debating the single patient record further in Committee.

Importantly, any patient removed from a waiting list should be notified alongside their GP. Data on the total number of removals from waiting lists is published by NHS England. That data includes, but cannot separately identify, patient pathways removed as a result of validation. The Department remains committed to the transparent publication of official waiting list statistics following the abolition of NHS England, although there are no plans to publish more detailed breakdowns. NHS staff are delivering record levels of elective activity, which has enabled us to meet our interim target of 65% of patients being seen within 18 weeks.

Karin Smyth

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The hon. Lady outlines a particular case, and if she wants to raise that separately, I am happy to come back to her with a fuller answer. As she knows, and as the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon also knows from his work with Getting It Right First Time, there are complications in some of this. I do not accept the hon. Lady’s point, but if there are particular or anecdotal examples of what she referred to, I am absolutely prepared to look at them.

Patients, with their GP, need to understand what is happening. That is a key part of our elective reform plan. If patients are on the list for a long time, they should be told why, and what alternative provision can be made for them. We are taking an active approach to supporting and empowering patients with information and knowledge, and being transparent about how we get down the shocking lists that the Conservatives left us, which stood at 4 million people before the pandemic.

Karin Smyth

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We know that in some areas of Scotland and Wales that are near the border with England, the way that health services are planned and commissioned in England can have implications for the people who live in Scotland or Wales. That is why clause 17 inserts new section 14Z45E into the 2006 Act, to place a duty on integrated care boards, when exercising their commissioning functions, to

“have regard to the likely impact of those decisions on the provision of health services”

to persons in Scotland and Wales living near the English border.

I assure the Committee that the clause will operate solely in relation to the exercise of ICB commissioning functions in England. It will neither confer functions on ICBs in relation to the commissioning or provision of services outside England, nor affect the responsibilities of devolved Administrations for the organisation and delivery of health services in Wales and Scotland. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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As an MP in Bristol, which is not quite on the border, but is pretty close, I absolutely understand. We have relationships with our Welsh colleagues and I have been involved in debates on this matter. The clause ensures that, with the abolition of NHS England, regard is had to to arrangements with our colleagues across the border. We all understand that devolution means that different arrangements will be made in the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. It is not for the UK Government to determine what those are, because they are devolved. However, I assure members of the Committee that across the piece in the Department, and indeed across the Government, regular meetings and conversations on these and other matters with regard to the devolved functions are a regular part of the work that we do.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 17 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 18

Transfer schemes in connection with integrated care boards

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Karin Smyth

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The clause gives the Secretary of State the powers to make transfer schemes where an ICB is being abolished or established, or where the area covered by an ICB is being amended. A transfer scheme ensures that all the staff, property rights, responsibilities and liabilities, other than criminal liabilities, of the ICB being abolished are transferred to another ICB. That ensures that the ICB taking over has the appropriate information and resources to continue to arrange healthcare services for their population. In the past, that has been used to support the restructuring of ICBs to achieve geographical boundary alignment with strategic authorities, as set out in the 10-year health plan. The power also allows transfers to the Secretary of State and, when a new ICB is established, allows the transfer of staff from an NHS trust or foundation trust or from a special health authority.

Following the abolition of NHS England, we expect that Ministers will continue to need to be able to make transfers between ICBs. The clause allows that as needed. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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It is precautionary to give the power in the event—future-proofing the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 18 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 19

Integrated care boards: power to provide assistance

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Karin Smyth

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The clause relates to the power for integrated care boards to provide assistance and support in relation to the health service. It replaces section 14Z48 and, in part, section 12ZA of the National Health Service Act 2006 with a clearer and more flexible power. At present, the various ICB assistance powers are narrower and more confusing. Section 12ZA provides for certain forms of practical assistance in connection with ICBs’ commissioning functions, while section 14Z48 provides a more limited power to make grants or loans. Other specific assistance powers sit elsewhere in the legislation, including in sections 96, 112, 124 and 147, which allow assistance and support for primary medical services, dental, ophthalmic and pharmaceutical services.

Clause 19 replaces all those separate powers with a general power for ICBs to provide assistance or support. The clause will make it clearer when an ICB may support providers, prospective providers or other activity connected with the health service. It will allow an ICB to provide assistance or support to a person who is providing or proposing to provide services as part of the health service. It will also enable an ICB to support a person who is carrying out or proposing to carry out activities that the ICB considers to be conducive to the health service. The assistance may include financial assistance, making available the services of ICB staff, or making available any other ICB resources. The clause also allows assistance to be provided on agreed terms, including terms about payments by or to the integrated care board.

The clause supports ICBs in their role as strategic commissioners. ICBs need to be able to support the development, improvement and resilience of services for their populations. They need to be able to cultivate their provider sector to meet the needs of the people they are responsible for, and they need to be able to do so in innovative and flexible ways. The clause gives them a clearer statutory basis for doing so. This is only an enabling power; it does not require an integrated care board to provide assistance and it does not create any entitlement for a person to receive assistance, nor does it disapply the ordinary legal and financial controls that apply to integrated care boards, or any other element of the usual way in which NHS bodies are overseen and regulated.

The clause should be read alongside clause 9, which creates a broadly analogous assistance power for the Secretary of State. In combination, the clauses support the move to a simpler, more flexible statutory framework that enables everybody, from the centre to ICBs, to discharge their responsibilities in ways that can be adapted to the complexity and multiplicity of circumstances they will inevitably encounter. I commend clause 19 to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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I thank the shadow Minister for her questions. ICBs are part of the accountability outcomes framework, so they will be monitored in the usual way, and any expenditure by the ICB—and, indeed, by the Department—is recorded in the departmental accounts.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 19 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 20

Performance assessments of integrated care boards

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Karin Smyth

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The clause transfers the requirement to conduct annual assessments of integrated care boards from NHS England to the Secretary of State and focuses the assessment on the statutory functions of the organisations. To do that, it removes a prescriptive list of duties to be assessed that was inserted by the Health and Care Act 2022.

ICBs are essential to delivering our health mission. They are responsible not only for arranging healthcare services, but for planning how those services will focus more on prevention, digital innovation and delivery in the community. It is therefore entirely appropriate that the Secretary of State should hold ICBs to account and undertake a meaningful assessment of their performance.

Currently, NHS England assesses the performance of ICBs annually, reviewing how well they have performed against a list of duties prescribed by the current legislation. The process for those assessments is set out in guidance each year and is driven by both publicly available performance data and local insight. The results are published online and form part of the ongoing performance conversation between NHS England and each ICB.

Although NHS England can choose to assess more than those statutory duties as part of that process, the duties form a static list of requirements that are already expected as part of the ICBs’ statutory functions. Having such a list may inadvertently skew attention away from other priorities in the 10-year health plan and our mission. As we reform the NHS, the ICB performance assessment will need to adapt to the evolving role of ICBs as strategic commissioners and reflect new models of commissioning. The list of duties will therefore become too prescriptive to provide the accountability intended. The clause allows a more nimble and flexible approach, ensuring meaningful assessment of ICB performance.

Karin Smyth

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I recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s expertise as a former Minister in this role. I do not want to mislead him, so I will come back to him in writing on both those points, if that is acceptable. He tempts me to be more prescriptive than I think we intend to be at this point, but I will ensure that he gets a proper answer to both questions. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Karin Smyth

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Of course ICBs will know how they are going to be assessed; that will be in guidance in the usual way. In the last two years, in planning terms, we have brought forward all that work for the system—including on the finances—in order that the system works more efficiently, and we will continue to seek to do that.

The hon. Member, as she has several times in the Committee, returned to the question of variation. When there is devolution and local systems are different, there will be a degree of variation, as I have said. In performance management terms, where there is unwarranted variation, we will seek justification and understanding of that. Sometimes, there is variation for geographical reasons. There may also be historical structural reasons in a local system, or temporary reasons why performance is variable. We would look at that as part of that general work.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 20 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 21

Membership of integrated care boards

Karin Smyth

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I absolutely recognise that this is an area of huge interest to hon. Members across the piece. I assure colleagues that officials and I have been working with representatives of the Local Government Association and mayors throughout the development of the Bill and the future architecture, and we will continue to do so. We will continue to have discussions and to make sure we get this right, because it is complex and complicated. Given that we are all politicians, we understand. Many of us have been councillors and local representatives, and have spent a lot of our time—sadly, for officials—knocking on doors, going out and persuading individuals to vote for these people. We understand that it is quite personal and we want to get it right.

If I may, I will not take any interventions so that I can address the amendments and our approach to ICB membership. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket said, ICBs are commissioners. This is a fundamental shift, which I will come on to, and it is different from the 2022 work. I now want to outline the board membership set out in clause 21, but I think we will be discussing this for some time.

Lord Darzi’s review found inconsistency in the roles being undertaken by ICBs and concluded that the health and care system would work better if each organisation had greater clarity and focus on its particular role. That is our starting point, and we set out to do that in the 10-year health plan. In future, all ICBs will discharge their common statutory duties through best-practice approaches, getting better at allocating their budgets to meet the population’s needs and securing the best outcomes. The new focus for ICBs is strategic commissioning. All ICBs will, in future, operate at a minimum efficient scale, with a population of around 1.5 million people covering multiple partner local authorities.

Effective partnership working is core to strategic commissioning and is aided, rather than diminished, by replacing ambiguity in roles with clarity and focus. That is why we are altering the membership requirements for ICBs. We are adding a requirement for strategic authority mayors, or a nominated representative, to be appointed to ICBs operating within their footprint. Strategic authorities will increasingly become key bodies for growth and prosperity in their localities. Mayors, or their nominated representatives, will highlight opportunities to improve health outcomes through a joined-up approach to their other devolved responsibilities, such as transport, housing and employment.

Although we recognise that the coverage of mayors and strategic authorities varies across the country, we will provide guidance to ensure that no area is disadvantaged, regardless of how advanced its local devolution arrangements are. In all cases, ICBs will have an obligation to ensure that their boards have a suitable membership to discharge those functions properly.

Given the larger geographical footprint of ICBs in the future, we are also removing the requirement for ICBs to have at least one member jointly nominated by local authorities. At present, local authorities collaborate with ICBs by sitting on health and wellbeing boards and local integrated care partnerships. The multitude of plans, committees and measures have resulted in confusion, siloed working and, too often, inaction. I think many of us would recognise that in our own areas.

I emphasise that we want to ensure a strong voice for local government in the work of the NHS. Our preferred approach is for local authorities to work with the NHS through health and wellbeing boards, co-commissioning and local authority health scrutiny. Those are likely to be more fruitful forums in which to resolve issues, agree joint approaches and tackle the needs of a local area.

As ICBs become more focused on effective commissioning, it is right that we remove any potential conflicts of interest. That is why the 10-year health plan and the Bill propose removing the requirement for one member jointly nominated by primary medical care providers and one member jointly nominated by NHS trusts and foundation trusts. The clause will provide ICBs with memberships that are best equipped to fulfil their commissioning responsibilities and role in health planning.

On amendment 45, which was tabled by the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, I assure her that the Government fully appreciate the importance of general practice and primary care more broadly, and the role that they play in informing ICB decisions. However, as I have said, health and wellbeing boards should be the key forum for resolving local issues and making planning decisions for their neighbourhoods. GPs are well placed to contribute to those discussions and also vital to them. We expect health and wellbeing boards to ensure that they involve relevant stakeholders, including GP practices and primary healthcare providers, in their work.

There is an opportunity for health and wellbeing boards to play a much more proactive and important role in the local economy. To respond to the point made by the hon. Member for Winchester, we absolutely recognise that place is important in those arrangements. Although I agree that the experience of primary care is important, I hope that I have reassured the Committee that having a member nominated by primary care on the board of an ICB is not necessary.

A similar argument applies to amendment 46, which would require a local government representative on the ICB. I should start by saying that I wholeheartedly recognise the important role that local authorities play in the health and care system. As we have discussed, their work in social care and public health, and their influence on the wider determinants of health such as housing and employment, mean that they have a fundamental role in supporting the delivery of our ambitions to improve the health and wellbeing of the population and implement the three shifts identified in our 10-year health plan.

Rather than one local authority attempting to represent the interests of many on an ICB board, however, we think that it is more effective for local government to use health and wellbeing boards to address local barriers to joint working and support the development of neighbourhood health plans, which will shape the commissioning plans of the ICBs. I assure the Committee that we expect ICBs to work effectively with every one of their partner local authorities in the local authority footprint to deliver the neighbourhood health service and progress the integration of health and care services at that level.

I should stress that our changes are not designed to weaken democratic accountability in the NHS. ICBs are NHS statutory bodies that are governed by a unitary board that is jointly responsible for ensuring that the ICB discharges its legal duties. Given that specific role, the ICB board is not the forum in which democratic leaders hold the NHS to account; rather, that is conducted through the local authority health scrutiny functions and Parliament. Again, this is a good opportunity for those health scrutiny functions to be much more robust and proactive at local authority level.

Amendment 46 also proposes retaining provider representatives on the ICB board. As I said earlier, we think that an ICB should have a core focus on commissioning, so it is right to remove the requirement to have providers on them. That will also support the avoidance of potential conflicts of interest.

We debated these issues many times—the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston referred to it—in this Committee Room, or one very similar to it that was not quite as hot, during the passage of the Bill that became the Health and Care Act 2022. These are difficult and complex issues. I mean no disrespect to him—he had a difficult job to do at the time—but the architecture has not worked. It is confusing, and I do not know any area that particularly thinks it has worked. We think that clarifying the roles will make the system much more effective.

I think we agree that adding requirements for strategic authority mayors to make nominations to their ICB boards is a good thing. It will be an effective tool to harness the benefits of joint planning between an ICB and strategic commissioners and strategic authorities, who will have increasingly significant roles in shaping their areas. I ask hon. Members not to press their amendments, and I commend clause 21 to the Committee.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

The Minister for Secondary Care (Karin Smyth)

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The clause updates the National Health Service Act 2006 to abolish the requirement for integrated care boards and their partner NHS trusts to prepare and publish a joint forward plan and a joint capital resource use plan. The 10-year health plan aims to simplify local healthcare planning, and the Bill delivers that objective by removing legal requirements for integrated care partnerships, integrated care strategies, joint forward plans and joint capital resource use plans. Planning will now begin with the joint strategic needs assessment, developed by health and wellbeing boards. The assessment will inform a new neighbourhood health plan, replacing the joint local health and wellbeing strategy. ICBs will produce population health improvement plans, aligning multiple joint strategic needs assessments, neighbourhood health plans and local priorities across their wider populations. As a result, the planning process will be streamlined and less bureaucratic, and will deliver healthcare for local people based on local planning and strategy. I commend the clause to the Committee.