Oral Answers to Questions
Graham Stuart Excerpts(1 year, 11 months ago)
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Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab)
The Minister for Energy and Climate (Graham Stuart)
The energy bills support scheme alternative funding will provide £400 of credit to around 900,000 households without a direct relationship with an electricity supplier. This matches the energy bills support scheme in Great Britain, which is automatically delivering the discount to 29 million households.
Mohammad Yasin
My constituency is home to a number of residents who are waiting for the energy bills support scheme alternative funding. Despite the Government confirming alternative funding on 1 April 2022, not a penny has been paid to date. Why is this taking so long? When do the Government estimate the first payment will be received?
Graham Stuart
I share the hon. Gentleman’s frustration. It is complicated. We do not live in a database society, so finding and identifying these people without putting public money at risk has been challenging. I am delighted to say, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said earlier, that a pilot programme using the Government portal, and a telephone support service for those who struggle to access the portal, went live yesterday. We aim to have the portal open at the end of the month. If all goes well with the pilot, payments will be processed by local authorities and will go out as soon as possible in February, and certainly this winter. That is our aspiration.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
I am afraid the Government are testing the patience of park home owners in my constituency. I have previously asked the Minister whether he can confirm that payments will be made directly to park home owners, rather than park home operators. Can he confirm that point, and that payments will be made as a block sum? Or will they be paid monthly, as per the standard programme?
Graham Stuart
I have spoken on a number of occasions with my hon. Friend, and with colleagues on both sides of the House, about making sure these residents are not forgotten. We have worked hard to make sure we have a system that can stand up and deliver. We give the funding to local authorities and, as soon as they have gone through the process and made the necessary verifications for the payment to go out, a single payment will be paid directly into the bank accounts of the people concerned.
Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
The Minister for Energy and Climate (Graham Stuart)
The levelling-up White Paper outlined that the new UK shared prosperity fund will support interventions that reinforce the Government’s commitment to net zero by 2050. That includes £2.6 billion of funding for investment in places, including for community infrastructure projects.
Graham Stuart
My hon. Friend rightly highlights the target set by the Chancellor to reduce by 15% demand across our energy system. The energy efficiency taskforce is being established, with my colleague Lord Callanan as co-chairman. We will be taking a number of steps, alongside the additional £6 billion in 2025-28, on top of the £6.5 billion being spent on energy efficiency in this Parliament.
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)
I am grateful to the Minister for Energy and Climate and his officials for their work on rolling out the energy payments in Northern Ireland, which started this week. Will he reassure us that he will continue to work very closely on the roll-out with the energy companies and the advice sector, ensuring that photographic ID issues and potential changes of address by property occupiers and park home owners are addressed so that everyone across Northern Ireland receives help, particularly the most vulnerable?
Graham Stuart
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and for so assiduously pressing the case, along with his colleagues, for Northern Ireland residents. I am delighted to see payments going out automatically to direct debit payers, and vouchers going out to others. He is quite right to focus on this. Suppliers have worked with the Post Office in trying to make sure that the right instructions are going out alongside the vouchers to help people get through this. To avoid scammers, I encourage people to go to the Post Office and, ideally, get this paid into a bank account. That will be £600 for every household and family in Northern Ireland, which will help at this time.
Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
Graham Stuart
Obviously, management of safety is not something for which I am directly responsible, but I am happy to follow up with my hon. Friend. I always thank him for giving me prior notice, which of course he did not do today.
Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is well known for his airbrushing skills, but he cannot airbrush the fact that, of the top 10 economies in the world, the UK is the only one with a declining steel industry. When is he going to sit down with Tata Steel and the other businesses to do a deal on green steel for the future of our workforce?
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
Graham Stuart
My hon. Friend is right to highlight the need for skills and training if we are to meet our ambitious net zero targets. On 20 September, the Government launched the latest phase of the £9.2 million home decarbonisation skills training competition, which will fund training for people working in the energy efficiency, retrofit and low-carbon heating sectors in England. We are confident that there is enough training capacity to meet demand for heat pump upskilling as heat pump deployment increases.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
The UK imports all medical radioisotopes used for treatment and diagnosis, mostly from European facilities that are due to close down by 2030. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the need to ensure security of supply of nuclear medicines?
Graham Stuart
I thank the hon. Gentleman for this question and for the numerous parliamentary questions he has also tabled, highlighting the need to ensure that vulnerable customers, including those on prepayment meters, are treated properly by suppliers. Where customers are not treated properly, those suppliers are in breach of their licensing conditions from Ofgem, which, as he knows, has investigated that matter, has found the suppliers wanting and is taking compliance action now. I share his frustration, as does the Secretary of State, to ensure that the system not only does what it says on the tin, but delivers in practice for people, including his constituents and mine.
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)
Graham Stuart
It is important to differentiate between the domestic market, which is much more heavily regulated and for which, of course, we have the energy price cap, and the non-domestic market, which is much more complicated and for which we have not felt that a one-size-fits-all approach would work. But my hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight issues where companies do not behave in the right way. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I are working with Ofgem to ensure that it fulfils its obligations. It may not be fully regulated in the same way, but it has licensed conditions and it needs to fulfil them.
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
Will the Minister confirm that post offices, which are at the heart of our community, will receive support for their energy bills so that they can continue to function for the rest of the community?
Graham Stuart
Post offices, like all non-domestic businesses and institutions, will benefit from the new energy price discount scheme, which follows the energy bill relief scheme, as announced by the Chancellor.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
My right hon. Friend the Energy Minister is more than aware of the deep anger in my constituency and across the east of England about National Grid’s green proposals to put pylons across the whole of East Anglia. Will he give clear assurances that the Government will work proactively to explore offshore grid options—an alternative, basically—to deliver more resilience and capacity, and to protect our countryside?
Graham Stuart
I thank my right hon. Friend who, along with colleagues, has been assiduous in championing constituents’ interests and making sure that no infrastructure that imposes a burden on constituents goes in if it is not necessary. I am pleased to say that we have launched the £100 million offshore co-ordination support scheme, which provides funding to ensure a more co-ordinated approach. Although we recognise that we cannot forcibly change some contracts, we can—including with that funding—encourage developers to look at doing their infrastructure in the way that has the least negative impact on her constituents.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Last year, a pay transparency came into law in Colorado. It requires employers to publish the salary range when they advertise for jobs, saving considerable amounts of time, and sometimes costs, for would-be employees. Would such a common-sense rule not be good for British job applicants and employers, too?
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
The west midlands has the highest fuel poverty in the country. How many west midlands homes will benefit from the new energy company obligation plus scheme when it comes online this year? Will the figure be nearer 4,000 or 20,000 homes?
Graham Stuart
I will write to the hon. Gentleman as I do not have those numbers to hand. I am delighted that we have gone from just 14% of homes being rated EPC C or above in 2010 to more than 46% now. That is not enough, but we have transformed the situation of UK housing stock that we inherited from Labour.
Oral Answers to Questions
Graham Stuart Excerpts(2 years ago)
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Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
Ofgem supports community energy projects and welcomes applications from the sector to the industry voluntary redress scheme. We encourage community energy groups to work with their local authority to support the development of community energy projects through UK-wide growth funding schemes.
Selaine Saxby
Will my right hon. Friend support measures to enable community energy schemes to sell their clean power directly to local customers, as contained in last Session’s Local Electricity Bill, and look at including them in the Energy Bill?
Graham Stuart
Although I am sympathetic to the outcome desired by proponents of, for instance, last Session’s Local Electricity Bill, I am concerned that mandating suppliers to offer local tariffs may be disproportionate and have unintended consequences. But I am delighted to tell my hon. Friend, who I recognise is a great champion in this area, that as part of a wider review of market mechanisms we are considering retail market reforms and responses to the electricity market consultation.
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
While the Government seem particularly confused about their position on onshore wind—the most tried and tested and easiest to roll out of all renewables—their focus on community energy is even worse. The creation of strong, well informed, capable communities able to take advantage of their renewable energy resources and create community benefits is embraced by the Welsh Labour Government. Why do the Conservative Government not do the same?
Graham Stuart
I thank the hon. Lady for her typically partisan contribution. [Interruption.] She is always consistent, and her Front-Bench colleagues rightly point out that I have some things in common with her. The rural community energy fund has provided £8.8 million in development grants for 208 projects focusing on a variety of technologies, which I am pleased to say include solar, wind, low-carbon heating and electric vehicle charging. The Government will be delighted to work with the devolved Administrations and others to drive forward our pathway to net zero.
Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)
Referring to the Minister’s response to my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), energy market reform is critical to ensure the growth of the community energy sector and to splitting out the wholesale gas price from the electricity price and other things. Will the Minister update the House on the Government’s current thinking on wholesale market reform?
Graham Stuart
We will update the House as soon as we have announcements to make.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
Community energy schemes such as Hoy Energy Ltd in Orkney perform a really important role in the community by reinvesting their profits in local schemes and projects. Will the Minister assure me that when it comes to devising regulations under section 16 of the Energy Prices Act 2022, there will be exemptions for such companies to ensure that they can continue to put the profits that they generate back into the community?
Graham Stuart
The provisions in the Energy Prices Act have been superseded by the announcements made by the Chancellor in the autumn statement, and therefore I do not think that they strictly apply any longer, as the right hon. Gentleman has suggested.
Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)
Does the Minister accept that the inability of local energy providers to trade within their local community remains one of the biggest obstacles to the development of community energy overall? If he is not willing to take on board the provisions of the community energy Bill that is presently being promoted by community energy supporters, does he have any other ideas as to how that problem could be overcome in the context of the Energy Bill, which I am delighted to see has resumed its parliamentary process today?
Graham Stuart
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and for his close interest in this field and knowledge of it. I look forward to sharing with the House further thoughts on how we can deliver precisely that more dynamic situation going forward. As he rightly says, there are provisions in the Energy Bill, which I am delighted to announce is resuming its passage through Parliament.
Sarah Green (Chesham and Amersham) (LD)
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
The Government have doubled support to £200 for alternatively fuelled households in recognition of the pressures caused by rising fuel costs. We are committed to delivering that payment to households as soon as possible this winter, and will announce further information on the delivery and timing of those payments in due course.
Sarah Green
People living in park homes are concerned that they have had no further information on when support will be available to them, or how they will access it. One representative of the company managing a park home site in my constituency first raised this issue with me in August, yet months on we still have no further information. Can the Minister provide some reassurance that people living in park homes will not slip through the cracks, and give some clarity as to when they will receive the £400 of support that they have been promised?
Graham Stuart
I think the hon. Lady has slightly confused the alternative fuel payment for those who are not on the gas grid with the energy bills support scheme—an easy mistake to make in this complex landscape. Those with a domestic electricity supply are already receiving the £400 discount under the EBS scheme that she has talked about. We are looking to come forward with details about timing, but it will be this winter; we are looking to work with local authorities in Great Britain to set up a scheme whereby people in park homes can apply as households, to ensure that they receive that £400 through local authorities as quickly as we can manage.
Lee Anderson
Now then. The residents of Ashfield mobile home park do not have a regular energy supplier. They get their gas and electricity sold on by the park owner—who, by the way, marks it up and puts a little bit back in his own pocket. Those residents do not have a great deal of money, so can the Minister please reassure them that help is on the way as soon as possible?
Graham Stuart
I thank my hon. Friend for his question; I hope he found my letter yesterday, and the annex to it, helpful. As I said, the Government have doubled support to £200 for alternatively fuelled households in recognition of the pressures caused by rising fuel costs. We are also determined to get support in place for edge cases. It sounds simple, and if I were where my hon. Friend is, I would certainly be shouting at the Minister to get on with it, but we do not live in a central database-driven society; it is necessary to identify these people in a way that protects public money. We are working flat out to deliver this support as quickly as we can.
Andrew Bridgen
A number of my constituents live in park homes, and many more have no access to gas mains and so rely on bulk deliveries of kerosene and liquefied petroleum gas. They are all concerned about the rising cost of energy, so would the Minister outline to the House how he is going to communicate to those groups the support that is available, and ensure that it is delivered for them this winter?
Graham Stuart
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. As I said, we are very much looking to work with local authorities, which we think are in the best position to help to go through the verification and assessment process and look after public money, and most importantly, to get the funding to heating oil users and others who need support to meet these unprecedented bills this winter.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee.
Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab)
The Government announced this week that £1 billion will go towards energy efficiency to reduce energy bills. Will the Minister confirm how many new homes will be covered by that £1 billion?
Graham Stuart
I cannot give the Chair of the Committee an exact figure, but I hope that very large numbers will be covered by that—[Interruption.] Opposition Front Benchers may find that amusing, but we should remember how few homes had an energy performance certificate C when Labour left power and how many more have had their level raised since then.
John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
The Government have announced changes to the energy price guarantee from April 2023, as well as additional support for pensioners and those on benefits. The Government will work with consumer groups and industry to consider the best approach to consumer protection from April 2024 as part of wider retail market reforms.
John Penrose
Does the Minister agree that while subsidies are necessary short-term sticking plasters, investors will not commit the multi-billion pound investments that the energy sector needs to upgrade and modernise energy storage, generation and transmission unless the long-term rules are clear? Will he therefore update the Energy Bill to lay out a sustainable long-term future with investable deadlines and milestones to transition from today’s highly distorted, politicised and bureaucratic sector to a cheaper, simpler, better-value industry with much lower political and regulatory risks?
Graham Stuart
I am proud that this Government have led the way, with contracts for difference driving renewables such as offshore wind by driving down costs. I am also delighted that we have the legislative vehicle to deliver the necessary changes, and the Energy Security Bill will be taken forward in this Parliament to transform our energy industry by turbocharging carbon capture, utilisation and storage and our hydrogen industries in pioneering projects from the Humber to the Mersey, and beyond. The Bill will encourage competition in the energy sector, creating opportunity, prosperity and security with clean jobs, new skills and, as my hon. Friend rightly highlights, cheaper bills.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
The Minister talks about long-term energy support. Will he bear in mind that, despite the promises made here today that everyone in the United Kingdom is already benefiting from short-term support, not one penny has been allocated to consumers in Northern Ireland, even though the electricity companies are ready and the utility regular has told him that the ground has been set. When will payments be made to people in Northern Ireland? We are looking not for promises tomorrow but for payments today.
Graham Stuart
The energy price guarantee is benefiting Northern Ireland consumers today, along with pensioners and vulnerable families—they are all being helped. Of course, energy policy is devolved to Northern Ireland, and we have had to step in because of the lack of an Executive. We are working very hard. I held a roundtable with energy suppliers only last week, and another one was held yesterday. We are doing everything within our power to find the right route, while protecting public money in the proper fashion, to get money out to Northern Ireland consumers this winter. We are doing everything for our part, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will support me in urging others to do the same.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
We consider all those that have left the energy charter treaty, but we have so far supported its modernisation. We keep that under advisement.
Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
The Rosebank oilfield would produce more than 200 million tonnes of CO2 when burned, which is equivalent to running 58 coal-fired power stations for a year and more than the combined annual emissions of 28 low-income countries. How does that make any sense in a world where heating needs to be constrained to below 1.5°?
Graham Stuart
Our use of oil and gas in this country is falling as part of our pathway to net zero. It is usage that drives the burning of oil and gas, and it is on the downward pathway. Producing our own oil and gas when we will be burning it on our net zero pathway domestically is sensible. It is good for Scottish jobs—although sadly opposed by the Scottish nationalists—it is good for the British economy and it is entirely net zero compliant. That is why we will continue to manage the mature and declining basin that is the North sea.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
I welcome the Government’s recent doubling of the alternative fuel payment and yesterday’s written communication from the Minister confirming that the majority of households eligible for those payments will receive their £200 automatically as a credit on their electricity bill. Can he reassure constituents in Banff and Buchan who are dependent on heating oil in particular that those payments will indeed be made as soon as practically possible?
Graham Stuart
I can give my hon. Friend and his constituents that assurance.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
A few months ago, CF Fertilisers in Billingham ceased ammonia production there because of the high gas price. Now Mitsubishi, just a few hundred yards along the road, is consulting on the closure of one of its plants, with the loss of hundreds of direct and contractor jobs, for the same reason. Is the Minister aware of that latest blow to Teesside, and what is he doing to help firms such as Mitsubishi?
Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)
Households in Great Britain have had access to the £400 energy support payments since 1 October, but households in Northern Ireland have not had any substantial support whatsoever. The energy price guarantee does not really work in Northern Ireland, because 70% of households there use oil. Can the Government give the people of Northern Ireland a firm date by which the £400 payments will be made available?
Graham Stuart
As I said in an earlier answer, we are doing everything we can, working through suppliers, to ensure that the money reaches Northern Ireland consumers. The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that every single Northern Ireland household is receiving the alternative fuel payment, in addition to the energy bills support scheme. We are looking to make sure not only that that money gets out and is credited to households, but that they are able to access it this winter. There is no point having it as a credit on an electricity bill, as that does not help them deal with other costs this winter. That is the sticking point; that is what we are working on.
Oral Answers to Questions
Graham Stuart Excerpts(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
We currently have more than 3 GW of installed, operational onshore wind capacity in England and 14 GW across the UK—the most of any particular renewable technology. We do not believe that the Government should prescribe the proportion of energy from any particular technology, but of course we have transformed the level of renewables since the hon. Gentleman’s party left power—when I think the figure was less than 7% of electricity. [Interruption.] Opposition Front Benchers may well groan, but it is quite clear that Labour did not deliver. It is more than 40% today—and we are.
Jeff Smith
As a direct result of the Conservative Government’s decision to cut the “green crap” in 2015, every household’s bill is hundreds of pounds higher. Does the Minister regret that mistake, and is it not long past time to reform planning laws and to get on with building the quickest, cheapest, cleanest forms of power, such as onshore wind and solar, which would increase our energy security, cut bills and tackle the climate crisis—work that the Government have been blocking for far too long?
Graham Stuart
It was this Government who passed the net zero legislation. It was this party that was the first major party to call for the climate Act, which has driven this behaviour, and it was this party that took us from 6.8% electricity from renewables to more than 40% today. It is this party that brought in the contracts for difference, which have been copied all over the world, and which see tens of millions of pounds paid to reduce bills at the moment, with the last round driving 11 GW of additional clean energy into the system. It is this party that delivers on net zero and the environment and it is that party—the Labour party—that talks about it.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
Labour is committed to maximising the vast opportunities that exist in developing the UK’s onshore and offshore wind industries. In sharp contrast, the Conservative Government’s 12 years of low growth, low investment and low productivity saw the UK’s largest wind tower factory at Campbeltown close. Labour will increase onshore wind capacity. We will deliver jobs, lower bills and energy security, and we will set up a publicly owned Great British energy company. Is the truth not that Labour’s industrial strategy is the credible way forward for UK energy production?
Graham Stuart
If only Labour’s record in office was as good as the oratory that the hon. Gentleman uses today—less than 7% of electricity was from renewables then. We are also absolutely focused on developing green jobs. We have developed those green jobs, but, sadly, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, it is the fate of almost every Labour Government to come in with promises and end up with higher dole queues than when they started.
Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Ind)
Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
I am delighted to say that, on 7 July, we announced that 40 MW of new tidal stream power was secured in Scotland and Wales through the contracts for difference round, and analysis has confirmed the predictability, resilience and potential cost-effectiveness of marine energy, which can play a key role in delivering energy security and net zero.
Rob Roberts
Over a decade ago, nuclear power was dismissed as it was too expensive, and it was said that it would not be online until 2022. How short-sighted has that proven to be? Does the Minister agree that marine energy must not suffer the same fate as nuclear? Does he also recognise that the cost will reduce over time with investment, and will he meet Jim O’Toole from Mostyn docks in my constituency to discuss his opportunities with tidal stream?
Graham Stuart
There is long-standing Government support for wave and tidal power research and development, with more than £175 million having been invested in the area over the past two decades. However, I agree with the hon. Gentleman that, where it can be shown that it is cost-effective, tidal and marine energy has a big role to play.
Anthony Mangnall
As is so often the case, local ideas can provide national solutions. Will the Minister meet me and Rev. Andrew Langley from my constituency, who is using his churches to look at using new tidal technology to power the town of Dartmouth? Those are the sort of schemes that we need to be looking at and then investing in and supporting the technology.
Graham Stuart
Rev. Andrew Langley sounds like a community hero. It is exactly that kind of grassroots approach that is at the heart of Conservative philosophy as we deliver these high-level targets, but we work with the whole community to see it delivered. Community groups have a big role to play in our efforts to eliminate our contribution to climate change, and of course I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend and his local hero, Rev. Andrew Langley.
Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
A fortnight ago, I raised the Swansea bay tidal lagoon at Treasury questions. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury kindly offered me a meeting to discuss it. He was very positive, but then, unfortunately, he lost his job. The potential of the barrage for cheap renewable energy could really kickstart our green economy in south Wales. Will the Minister reopen the business case on this important project?
Graham Stuart
We consider a whole series of critical factors, including funding mechanisms, planning considerations, the environmental impact and whether the benefits of coastal and flood defence and energy security can be included. Like the hon. Gentleman, I hope that we can see a way forward and that tidal and marine energy can compete with other technologies, as we bring about the transformation that was talked about under his Government but is being delivered under this one.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
The United Kingdom has the highest tidal range on the planet after Canada, yet we use so very little of it, especially when we consider that a massive majority of the supply chain for marine, tidal and hydro is British. There are so many jobs to be made out of all this. Will the Minister look particularly at the potential for tidal energy in Morecambe bay? I know that his hon. Friends on both sides of the bay agree with me on this, so will he meet with me and others who are in favour of getting green energy out of Morecambe bay to see whether we can take this forward?
Graham Stuart
We are seeing these technologies mature, and the hon. Gentleman is right: tidal and floating offshore wind projects have won CfDs for the first time ever, which will help these industries grow and strengthen Britain’s homegrown renewables sector. As he says, we have tremendous tidal potential in this country. He mentioned a site further north, but the Severn estuary has the second highest tidal range in the world, so if we can get it right, there is huge untapped potential.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
Anglesey is known as energy island. We have wind, wave, solar, tidal, hydrogen and hopefully new nuclear. We have two excellent tidal marine companies, Morlais and Minesto. When will the Minister publish the parameters for the fifth CfD auction, which is opening in March next year?
Graham Stuart
As my hon. Friend says, the fifth round is very exciting. We are moving from two-yearly to annual rounds—of course, they were interrupted by the pandemic, so it became slightly longer than that. After 11 GW last year and with new technologies coming through, we will come forward soon with information on that. I look forward to seeing that yearly set-up leading to even more renewables coming onstream.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
My constituents do not like arrogance, and they do not like posh arrogance even more. Is it not the case that the guilty group here, most of whom were passionate Brexiteers, have done so much damage to our economy? That means that tidal power, energy from waste and a range of other alternatives have been languishing, because this Government have no sense of direction and will not recognise what the Bank of England Governor and previous Governors have said, which is that we have been impoverished by leaving the European Union.
Mr Speaker
I am not quite sure that that has got a lot to do with tidal energy.
Graham Stuart
Well, there was there an attempted linkage to the question, but I do not think that made it any less pompous or, indeed, irrelevant.
Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con)
Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I work closely with colleagues across the Government on the cross-Government challenge of net zero. Only yesterday, the Climate Action Implementation Committee met and discussed our progress on meeting our net zero targets and the carbon budgets.
Emma Hardy
Tackling climate change is a win-win-win for Hull West and Hessle, and indeed for Beverley and Holderness. Labour’s plan for Great British Energy will provide good, green, local manufacturing jobs in offshore wind and carbon capture, help protect our planet and ensure our country’s future energy security, but the short-termism of this Government and, sadly, their high turnover of Ministers is not giving this crucial issue the focus it needs and is preventing our country from developing the long-term skills strategy that is needed to fill those jobs. When will the Government stop fighting themselves and match Labour’s ambition for our country?
Graham Stuart
In 2021 alone, £24 billion of new investment was committed across low-carbon sectors in the UK. I share the hon. Lady’s enthusiasm for what that can do for the whole country, particularly the Humber area. We estimate that just over 69,000 green jobs have been supported in the UK since the launch of the 10-point plan for a green industrial revolution in November 2020, many of which are in former industrial heartlands. It is important that Members on both sides of the House send out the message that the whole House is united in believing that net zero is the right place to go and the UK is the right place to invest. I am sure that hon. Members will send that message across the world.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
I sincerely thank the Secretary of State and the Minister for Climate for helping to depose the Prime Minister last week with their insistence on bringing back fracking. They may have technically won the vote but, given the response of their MPs, it is obvious that they lost the argument. Can the Minister now confirm that the Government’s anti-green agenda has exited Downing Street along with the outgoing Prime Minister? Will he commit to bringing back the ban on fracking?
Graham Stuart
Perhaps it is the nature of being in Opposition that means that people misrepresent things, but it is of course this party and this Government who have driven the net zero strategy and are greening our economy. [Interruption.] The Opposition may grumble and they may not like it, but we can see it in all the numbers. Just 14% of homes had an energy performance certificate rating of C or above when Labour left office; that figure is 46% today. Whether on energy efficiency, renewables or low-emission gas, we are the party that has solutions.
Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con)
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Will the Minister expedite the track 2 process for carbon capture, usage and storage?
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)
Graham Stuart
We have an assessment process for all new licences to look at that and see its overall impact.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
Graham Stuart
We are on track. [Interruption.] We are on track and we are focused on delivering that. The margins are tighter than we would like, but we are on track, we have delivered to date and we will deliver in future.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Secretary of State meet me and Swansea University to talk about using off-peak renewables to convert plastics into hydrogen and blending that in the gas grid, as his predecessor did, as part of the growth agenda? I appreciate that his predecessor did not do very well following that meeting.
Ban on Fracking for Shale Gas Bill
Graham Stuart Excerpts(2 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Tim Farron
When my leader, the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, he was responsible for the United Kingdom increasing renewables by 20% every year, and that dropped by 3% when he left office. The hon. Member is concerned about leaders changing their mind, yet the Conservative party is led by someone with more flip-flops than Benidorm, so we will not take any lessons from the Conservative side of the House. Renewables are the answer. They are quick and they are popular.
Tim Farron
Other people need to get in. The Minister needs to be patient and wait his turn.
My concern is: what does this decision say about the Government? It is not rational to choose shale gas and fracking when it is obvious that it will not have an impact on reducing prices or improving energy security. Instead, the Government could be moving towards tidal, marine, hydro, wind and solar. It is not rational.
It is also not rational that, earlier, the Treasurer of His Majesty’s Household, the hon. Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker), the Government’s deputy Chief Whip, wrote to every Conservative MP saying that the motion is not about fracking and is a matter of confidence. That causes a great problem for Government Members, who must vote either to end the moratorium on fracking—only 19% of the British people support fracking, and the overwhelming majority, including those in my constituency, are opposed to it, so that would be enormously unpopular—or to bring down the Government. That is an irrational thing for the Government to seek to put before the House.
We are beginning to see a pattern of irrational behaviour at the centre of our Government. If we care about our energy supplies, the cost of energy, the enormously painful cost of living—a threat to every single family in the country—and our economy, we cannot have those people in high office and leading the Government party consistently acting illogically and irrationally. The Government’s proposal is irrational. That is why they should give way. We should oppose fracking. I will vote to oppose fracking today, and I challenge Government Members to ignore their Whips and to vote to end fracking.
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
It is a great pleasure to wind up this debate, to which there have been so many excellent contributions from across the House. Perhaps not for the first time, the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband)—he is an extremely clever man, for whom I have a great deal of respect—has been a little bit too clever by half. Perhaps if more drafting had gone into this, instead of seizing the Order Paper we could have had a different style—[Interruption.] It was an attempt to seize the Order Paper. Quite clearly, this is not a confidence vote—[Interruption.] Obviously, this is not a confidence vote; it is an attempt—[Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
Order. Come on, let us listen to the Minister. That means be quiet up there on the Back Benches as well.
Graham Stuart
I will not give way. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman is getting over-excited. He has described himself as a nerd—accurately, of course. Perhaps he should have spent more time looking at parliamentary procedure.
I am proud to say that this Government have led the way in reducing emissions and moving towards net zero. When the right hon. Gentleman left power in 2010, not only was there that note that said there was no money left, but less than 7% of our electricity—around 6.8%—came from renewables. It is the Conservative party that has delivered the green revolution and will continue to do so. That means that more than 40%—[Interruption.] Madam Deputy Speaker, are they allowed to maintain this ridiculous stunt? It is bad enough—
Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. Mr Davies, we are having a debate. If everybody shouts at one another, we cannot have a debate.
Graham Stuart
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It has brought calm to the Opposition to point out that only 7% of electricity came from renewables when they left power, but the figure is more than 40% today. If we look at energy efficiency and people who are struggling to heat their homes today, what percentage of houses had an energy performance certificate rating of C and above when Labour left power? [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) wants to tell me from a sedentary position, but I will tell him that it was 14%. What is it today? It is 46%. The Conservative party is moving this country towards net zero, and not only are we doing that at home but we are leading internationally as well.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
The Minister is absolutely right about the green revolution, in which our region in the Humber is playing such a big part. I ask him to reflect on the speeches that have been made today. If this was a clear vote on whether or not we should have fracking, I would be in the Lobby with the Opposition. On any binding vote, I will stick to my manifesto and election commitment to oppose fracking absolutely. Will he reflect on that? He was talking about how much we should be investing in green energy, and I urge him to continue in that vein.
Graham Stuart
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and we are investing. Near both our constituencies, we have seen the transformation—
Graham Stuart
May I at least answer this without being permanently harassed by the right hon. Gentleman, who should learn to sit? My hon. Friend has seen the transformation of the whole economics of offshore wind. He has seen this Government put in place the contracts for difference, which are being copied all around the world.
Graham Stuart
I feel as though if I do not give way to the right hon. Gentleman, he may suffer some serious medical emergency.
Edward Miliband
For the guidance of the House, the Minister said something very important from the Dispatch Box: he said that this is not a confidence motion. I think Conservative Members want to know, because if he confirms that statement, they can vote for our motion in the safe knowledge that they can be confident in the current Prime Minister. Will he confirm that?
Graham Stuart
The right hon. Gentleman was so excited to repeat something I had already said multiple times. Colleagues on this side of the House are perfectly clear. They are not going to surrender or allow the Labour party to become the Government for a day by seizing control of the Order Paper.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Graham Stuart
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
We will continue to lead the world and drive forward offshore and onshore wind and solar energy, we will have SMRs and gigawatt-level nuclear, as well as support for AMRs, and we will come forward with proposals to support hydrogen and CCUS. We are looking all across the piece to drive the green revolution, but as part of that work we need to secure the gas and oil we rely on at the moment as we manage and drive down our usage on the path to net zero.
Ruth Edwards
I really need to press the Minister on this question of a confidence vote. Many of us have been told today by our Whips that if we vote for, or abstain from voting against, this motion, we will lose the Whip. Will he please confirm whether that is the case?
Graham Stuart
That is a matter for party managers, and I am not a party manager.
Community support is so important. That is why, as we heard the Secretary of State say today, we have pledged that there will be the community veto we have heard so much about from colleagues including my hon. Friends the Members for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), for Winchester (Steve Brine), for Gloucester (Richard Graham), for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher), for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay), for Worcester (Mr Walker), for Rother Valley (Alexander Stafford), for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards), for Blackpool South (Scott Benton), for Ashfield (Lee Anderson), and for Leigh (James Grundy), as well as my right hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Nick Gibb), my right hon. Friend and neighbour the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight), and my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill), up the coast from me.
Graham Stuart
It is interesting to see on his feet the Liberal Democrat Member who in his speech suggested that not a drop more gas or oil should come out of the ground, forgetting that 75% of our energy needs today are met by fossil fuels. It is this Government who are leading the green transformation to take us away from fossil fuels. It is this Government who are driving forward net zero, not only here but, equally important, all around the world. It is my right hon. Friend the Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) who, as President of COP26, has moved the world from having just 30% of global GDP covered by net zero pledges in 2019 to more than 90% today. It is that transformation of the global position on the pathway to net zero that has been critical, as well as the development of net zero at home.
That is why we will continue to make sure that we develop. It is why we are issuing licences and blocks in the North sea, so that we can produce domestic oil and gas as we manage that pathway down. We will—
Sir Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab)
claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).
Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.
Question agreed to.
Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.
The House proceeded to a Division.
Energy Prices Bill
Graham Stuart ExcerptsMonday 17th October 2022
(2 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Energy Prices Act 2022 View all Energy Prices Act 2022 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 17 October 2022 - (17 Oct 2022)
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 10, in clause 2, page 3, line 5, leave out “negative” and insert “affirmative”.
Clause 2 stand part.
Amendment 11, in clause 3, page 4, line 7, leave out “negative” and insert “affirmative”.
Clauses 3 to 8 stand part.
Amendment 19, in clause 9, page 8, line 3, at end insert—
‘(2A) Within two weeks of this Act coming into force the Secretary of State must make a statement to Parliament as to whether he intends to introduce regulations under subsections (1) or (2), and including any indicative reductions that will be implemented.”
This amendment would require the Government to state within two weeks of Royal Assent whether it will introduce regulations under clause 9.
Amendment 7, in clause 9, page 8, line 16, at end insert—
‘(4A) Regulations under this section must apply to non-domestic customers—
(a) that signed a fixed agreement with their energy provider after 1 December 2021, and
(b) on variable rates tariffs.”
This amendment would ensure that non-domestic customers who signed a fixed tariff agreement between 1 December 2021 and 1 April 2022 also benefit from the reduced energy charges.
Amendment 17, in clause 9, page 8, line 17, leave out “may” and insert “must”.
Amendment 18, in clause 9, page 8, line 18, after “section” insert “, and provide a report to Parliament setting out the amount of money paid to electricity and gas suppliers over the 6 month period, an estimate of how many businesses have been supported, and a business sectorial breakdown of the financial support provided.”
This amendment is to enable analysis of the cost of the scheme, the types of businesses supported, and the approximate sums paid to different business sectors.
Clauses 9 to 12 stand part.
Amendment 16, in clause 13, page 10, line 26, at end insert—
‘(1A) The Secretary of State may establish a domestic fuel reduction scheme in Great Britain for off gas grid homes heated from supplies of fossil fuels such as LPG and oil.”.
Amendment 6, in clause 13, page 10, line 37, at end insert—
‘(3A) The Secretary of State must make alternative fuel payments to non-domestic consumers of energy who are not connected to the gas or electricity grid and who will not benefit from the non-domestic energy bill relief schemes, and these payments must be at a level which provides such consumers with a cost reduction equivalent to those consumers benefiting from the non-domestic energy bill relief schemes.”.
This amendment would provide non-domestic customers that are off grid and who are not covered by the Energy Bill Relief Scheme with support which has parity with that given to other non-domestic users.
Amendment 9, in clause 13, page 10, line 37, at end insert—
‘(3A) Any payments made to energy users not connected to the gas or electricity networks must be provided direct to those users’ bank accounts.”.
This amendment would ensure that those receiving payments under the Alternative Fuel Payments schemes do so through their bank accounts rather than through their electricity bill.
Clause 13 stand part.
Amendment 12, in clause 14, page 11, line 24, leave out “as soon as reasonably practicable” and insert “within 28 days of the expenditure being incurred”.
Amendment 13, in clause 14, page 11, line 25, at end insert “; and in calculating the period of 28 days, no account is to be taken of any whole days that fall within a period during which—
(a) Parliament is dissolved or prorogued, or
(b) either House of Parliament is adjourned for more than four days.”.
Clauses 14 and 15 stand part.
Amendment 14, in clause 16, page 14, line 40, leave out “The first”.
Amendment 15, in clause 16, page 14, line 41, leave out “any other regulations under this section are subject to the negative procedure”.
Clause 16 stand part.
Amendment 8, in clause 17, page 15, line 24, at end insert—
‘(2A) The Secretary of State must place any information received in response to a direction under subsection (1) in the Library of the House of Commons.”.
This amendment would require the Secretary of State to place in the Commons Library the responses to any direction to an electricity generator to provide information under the power in clause 17(1).
Clauses 17 and 18 stand part.
Amendment 4, in clause 19, page 16, line 37, at end insert—
‘(1A) Regulations under subsection (1) must provide that the pass-through requirements on intermediaries are in force until at least 30 September 2024.”.
This amendment would ensure that the requirement on intermediaries to pass through to end users the benefit of Government price support will last for two years.
Clauses 19 to 26 stand part.
Amendment 1, in clause 27, page 22, line 40, at end insert—
“(c) anything done or proposed to be done to prevent electricity generators and oil and gas producers from passing on the costs of any levy imposed on them or payments they are required to make under this Act.”.
This amendment is a power for the Secretary of State to undertake consequential actions in order to secure the full reduction in the cost of domestic or non-domestic energy bills in Great Britain.
Clauses 27 to 30 stand part.
New clause 1—Impact assessment on VAT zero rating insulation works for tenement buildings in Scotland—
‘Within six months of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, the Secretary of State must carry out an assessment of the impact of zero rating value added tax on work and materials to insulate tenement buildings in Scotland.’.
New clause 2—Marginal cost of electricity—
‘Within two years of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, the Secretary of State must consult on and implement a scheme to disaggregate the cost of production of natural gas from the cost of production of other energy sources with a view to reducing the cost of electricity to domestic and commercial consumers.’.
This new clause requires the Secretary of State to devise and implement a scheme to disaggregate the cost of production of natural gas from the cost of production of other energy sources in order to reduce the cost of electricity to domestic and commercial consumers.
New clause 3—Report on additional expenditure treated as incurred for purposes of section 1 of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must, within six months of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, publish and lay before Parliament a report on the effect of reducing the amount of the allowance under section 2(3) of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act from 80% to 5%.
(2) The Report must set out projections of the effect of the reduction set out in subsection (1) on domestic and non-domestic energy bills.’
This new clause requires the Secretary of State to produce a report assessing the impact of reducing the investment allowance for oil and gas companies as set out in the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act from 80% to 5%, and in particular to assess such a reduction’s impact on domestic and non-domestic bills.
New clause 4—Energy cost support for users of heat networks—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must make energy cost support payments to users of heat networks who will not benefit from the Energy Price Guarantee.
(2) These payments must be at a level which provides such users with a cost reduction equivalent to that received by those benefiting from the Energy Price Guarantee.
(3) These payments must apply from 1st October 2022 and run for two years.’
This new clause would ensure that users of heat networks will receive energy cost support for two years.
New clause 5—Report on support for business after six months—
‘Within one week of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a statement about the support that will be offered to non-domestic customers in Great Britain and Northern Ireland when the initial six-month period of support has ended.’
This new clause would require the Government to produce a report on support for business after the initial six months one week after the Bill receives Royal Assent.
New clause 6—Impact assessment of a housing decarbonisation scheme—
‘(1) Within six months of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, the Secretary of State must work with the devolved authorities to carry out an assessment of the potential impact of a housing decarbonisation scheme.
(2) The assessment must set out the different impacts of reaching the following Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) ratings—
(a) all domestic properties in the UK to EPC rating “A” by 2030;
(b) all domestic properties in the UK to EPC rating “B” by 2030;
(c) all domestic properties in the UK to EPC rating “C” by 2030.
(3) The assessment must consider the impact of a housing decarbonisation scheme under the different scenarios outlined in subsection (2) on—
(a) average domestic energy bills for households across the Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland;
(b) the number of households living in fuel poverty in Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland;
(c) the Welsh Government’s climate targets;
(d) the UK Government’s climate targets;
(e) the Scottish Government’s Climate Targets;
(f) the Northern Ireland Executive’s Climate Targets.
(4) The impact assessment must be co-authored by—
(a) the UK Government;
(b) the Welsh Government;
(c) the Scottish Government;
(d) the Northern Ireland Executive.
(5) A report on the findings of the impact assessment must be laid before Parliament within three months of its publication.
(6) The Secretary of State must make an oral statement to the House of Commons when any report under subsection (4) is laid.’
This new clause would require the Government to work with the devolved authorities to assess the impact of a UK-wide housing decarbonisation scheme.
New clause 7—Impact assessment of setting the Domestic Energy Price Reduction Scheme at the pre-April Ofgem cap levels—
‘(1) Within one month of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, the Secretary of State must carry out an assessment of the potential impact of using the Domestic Energy Price Reduction Scheme to set domestic energy bills for Scotland, Wales and England at the following levels—
(a) £1,277 for standard-variable tariffs;
(b) £1,309 for pre-payment meters.
(2) The Impact assessment must consider the impact of the policy set out in subsection (1) on—
(a) the number of households living in fuel poverty in Scotland, Wales and England;
(b) the number of children living in relative income poverty in Scotland, Wales and England;
(c) the number of children living in absolute income poverty in Scotland, Wales and England.’
This new clause would require the UK Government to assess the impact of using the price reduction scheme to set energy prices at the pre-April Ofgem cap levels.
New clause 8—Review of forecast and outturn revenue and profits of electricity generators and UK oil and gas producers—
‘(1) The Secretary of State shall, within one month of the passing of this Bill and every six months thereafter, publish an assessment of forecast and outturn revenue and profits of electricity generators and oil and gas producers.
(2) This review must cover all electricity generators as specified in section 16(10) of this Act and all companies carrying on a ringfenced trade as defined in Clause 1 of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022.
(3) This review must consider total revenue and profits from UK production and generation that are forecast in each financial year from 2022/23 until 2025/26, as well as outturn revenue and profits in these years when data becomes available.”
This new clause would require the Government to assess the revenue and profits of electricity generators and oil and gas producers every six months until 2025/26.
New clause 9—Removing regional variation from standing charges—
‘The Secretary of State must make provision to ensure that electricity standing charges are uniform throughout the country, including England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.’
This new clause would end regional variations of electricity standing charges.
New clause 10—Establishment of a domestic home heating oil voucher scheme for households in Northern Ireland—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must establish a domestic home heating oil voucher scheme for households in Northern Ireland.
(2) A “domestic home heating oil scheme for Northern Ireland” is a scheme that makes provision for making voucher payments to households in Northern Ireland to provide either 1000 litres of home heating oil, or a quantity that is substantially consistent with the support offered to domestic gas customers.’
New clause 11—Energy Profits Levy—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must lay before the House an assessment of the additional revenue that would result from the following policy measures—
(a) amending the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy so that it applies to oil and gas profits incurred since 1st October 2021,
(b) removing from the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy allowances for investment in oil and gas extraction,
(c) increasing the rate of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy beyond its current level of 25%, and
(d) implementing a windfall tax on the excess profits of coal and gas-fired power stations.
(2) In addition the Secretary of State must lay before the House an official estimate of the oil and gas super profits over the next two years.
(3) The Secretary of State must lay the report no later than 31st October 2022.’
This new clause would require the Secretary of State to lay a report before the House detailing the impact of expanding the government’s Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy.
New clause 12—Energy cost support for off-grid consumers—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must make energy cost support payments to users who are not connected to either the gas or electricity grid and who will not benefit from either the Energy Price Guarantee or Energy Bill Relief Scheme.
(2) These payments must be at a level which provides such users with a cost reduction equivalent to those benefiting from the Energy Price Guarantee.
(3) These payments must apply from 1st October 2022 and run for two years.’
This new clause would ensure those off-grid will receive energy cost support for two years.
New clause 13—Report into effectiveness of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs—
‘(1) The Government must review the impact of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs in accordance with this section and lay a report of that review before the House of Commons within 6 months of the passing of this Act.
(2) A review under this section must consider the impact of—
(a) the number of homes and business properties which have increased their EPC rating,
(b) the number of homes and business properties which have undergone retrofitting programmes, including—
(i) solar panels, and
(ii) replacement of gas boilers,
(c) increases in renewable energy sources, and
(d) public messaging campaigns in changing energy usage habits.’
This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report on the impact of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs.
New clause 14—Fuel poverty impact analyses of provisions of this Act—
‘(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must lay before the House by 31st January 2023 a report assessing the impact of this Act on fuel poverty, taking into account the following two scenarios—
(a) the energy price cap being set at its current level of £2,500, and
(b) the energy price cap being set at £1,971.
(2) A review under this section must consider the impact of the provisions of the Act on—
(a) households at different levels of income,
(b) households in receipt of the Alternative Fuel Payment (that is, not connected to either gas or electricity grid),
(c) households who use heat networks, and
(d) households in rural communities.
(3) A review under this section must include a separate analysis of each separate measure in the Act, and must also consider the cumulative impact of the Act as a whole.’
This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report on the impact of the provisions of the Act on the level of fuel poverty.
New clause 15—Report into the impact of provisions in the Act on the long term viability of the green energy industry—
‘(1) The Government must review the impact of provisions in the Act on the long term viability of the green energy industry.
(2) A review under this section must consider the impact of the Act on—
(a) the likelihood of achieving net zero by 2050, and
(b) creating allowances for investment in green energy.’
This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report on the long term viability of the green energy industry.
New clause 16—Investment in renewables—
‘In exercising the powers under this Act the Secretary of State must seek to ensure that they do not disincentivise investment in renewables.’
This new clause would require the Government not to disincentivise investment in renewables when exercising the powers under this Act.
New clause 17—Calculation of energy and gas prices—
‘The Secretary of State must publish details of how the Government has determined the relative levels of the gas and electricity price reductions brought into effect under the provisions of this Act.’
This new clause would require the Government to explain how it has arrived at the electricity and gas price reductions under the Act.
Manuscript new clause 18— Energy support after April 2023—
‘(1) The Government must lay a report before the House of Commons within 28 days of Royal Assent stating what energy price support it will provide from April 2023 onwards.
(2) The report must also contain—
(a) an estimate of what average domestic energy bills are expected to be in April 2023 if no further support provided;
(b) an estimate of how many households will be classed as being in (a) fuel poverty and (b) extreme fuel poverty if no further support is provided;
(c) what the extension of the universal support scheme for a further—
(i) 6 months;
(ii) 12 months and
(iii) 18 months is estimated to cost; and
(d) what alternative support schemes the Government will introduce to prevent any further increases in fuel poverty and protect the most vulnerable including—
(i) pensioner households,
(ii) those with disabilities and
(iii) those in receipt of benefits.’
This new clause would require the Government to make a report to the House setting out the energy support it will provide from April 2023 onwards.
That schedule 1 be the First schedule to the Bill.
That schedule 2 be the Second schedule to the Bill.
That schedule 3 be the Third schedule to the Bill.
That schedule 4 be the Fourth schedule to the Bill.
That schedule 5 be the Fifth schedule to the Bill.
Amendment 2, in schedule 6, page 36, line 17, after ”may” insert
‘provide for the reduction of the amount charged for domestic electricity supply from 8 September 2022 but’.
This amendment allows the domestic electricity price reduction scheme to begin from 8September 2022.
Amendment 3, in schedule 6, page 36, line 25, after ”may” insert
‘provide for the reduction of the amount charged for domestic electricity supply from 8 September 2022 but’.
This amendment allows the domestic electricity price reduction scheme to begin from 8 September 2022.
Amendment 5, in schedule 6, page 37, line 22, leave out sub-paragraphs (1) to (4) and insert—
‘5 (1) Regulations under section 9(1) and 9(2) must provide for the reduction of charges for electricity supply and for gas supply to last for a period of two years beginning with the operative date.’.
This amendment would require the support for non-domestic electricity and gas users in Great Britain to continue for two years.
Amendment 20, in schedule 6, page 39, line 6, leave out “three years and six months” and insert “two years”.
That schedule 6 be the Sixth schedule to the Bill.
That schedule 7 be the Seventh schedule to the Bill.
The Minister for Climate (Graham Stuart)
We are facing a global energy crisis, which has been exacerbated by Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. This Bill puts support to help people, businesses, charities and the public sector across the UK with their energy bills on a secure legislative footing. It is a vital step in delivering the necessary package of assistance for the whole of the UK. We are putting the Bill through in an expedited way, and I thank His Majesty’s Opposition and other parties for their constructive engagement with us ahead of today. It is important that I put on record what the Bill will do, but I will seek to be brief because a number of Members are keen to speak to their amendments.
Clause1, together with clauses 2 to 8, provides for the establishment in legislation of the energy price guarantee schemes in Great Britain and Northern Ireland for electricity and gas. The EPG represents significant and bold action that will help to protect families from the spiralling cost of energy. This clause provides for the establishment of the EPG schemes and for them to be amended and revoked. For example, the schemes could be amended to change the eligible tariffs or the amount of financial support provided. The GB scheme has been operational from 1 October and delivered through contracts between the Secretary of State and energy suppliers. The Bill will put the scheme on a more secure statutory footing. The House will be aware that the Chancellor’s statement intends to refine the scheme after six months.
Clauses 9 to 12 will introduce a scheme that enables the Government to reduce the charges for electricity and gas supplied by licensed electricity suppliers to eligible non-domestic customers in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This scheme represents significant and bold action to protect all eligible non-domestic customers, including businesses, charities and the public sector, such as hospitals and schools, from excessively high energy bills over the winter period. Without this intervention, the wider negative effects of this economic pressure would be severe and would materialise very quickly.
Jonathan Edwards
What advice would the Minister give to manufacturing companies in my constituency that have order books that extend past the six-month period, which the Bill supports, on pricing their products, given that they will have no idea what the cost of production will be following the increase in energy prices?
Graham Stuart
The hon. Gentleman’s question goes to the heart of the matter, which is that, if it were not for this intervention, those businesses would have been facing very high costs. We are committed to a review after three months, which will look at those who are least able to alter their energy use and come forward with proposals to help them in due course. That is why this is so important, but because of the costs and the impact, it needs to be time limited.
Clauses 13 to 15 will introduce powers for the Secretary of State to allow the Government to take steps, including the giving of financial assistance, to respond to the energy crisis, and to designate other bodies to take action in support of such steps. The power to give financial support is a time-limited power, at three years and six months. This is essential for the delivery of the various energy price support schemes and the administrative tying-up of them at the end part.
Clauses 16 to 18 allow the Government to break the link between high gas prices and cheap low-carbon electricity. These measures will allow the Government to take decisive action, through subsequent regulations, for a payment administrator to obtain excessive revenues from low-carbon electricity generators. This temporary measure will help more fairly to reflect the cheap costs of low-carbon generation. Clause 18, which extends the contracts for difference scheme to existing low-carbon electricity generators, will grant such generators longer-term revenue certainty.
Alan Brown
I apologise if I missed it, but did the Minister explain clauses 13 and 14? How does he see clause 13 working in terms of giving the Secretary of State the power to spend up to £100 million on various schemes at any one time without a resolution in the House? What kind of measures does he envisage the Secretary of State entering into with such a power?
Graham Stuart
As the hon. Gentleman knows, this legislation lays out the remit of the Secretary of State, under the powers within the Bill, to intervene to protect businesses and consumers. That is its central aim.
Clause 19 ensures that the support schemes I have mentioned reach their intended beneficiaries. The requirement to pass on energy price support will help to ensure that tenants and other end users receive the support they need. Clause 20 will make amendments to the existing price cap legislation to support the delivery of the energy price guarantee. The clause will ensure that Ofgem continues to calculate the cap level to determine what it costs an efficient energy supplier to provide a household with gas and/or electricity. In response to the points made by the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), this will not determine the prices that households pay, but it will enable the Government to identify what level of support is needed to deliver the prices in the energy price guarantee. So it has a different purpose, but a useful one, in delivering the EPG. Finally, clauses 21 to 23 provide the power to enable the Secretary of State to modify energy licence conditions urgently, as necessary, and give directions to support the response to the energy crisis.
Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)
I am sorry that we have such truncated time to discuss this legislation this evening, because while we have a substantial level of support for the Bill, we have our concerns about sections of it and there are parts of it that should not be in it at all. I did not have the opportunity to commend the excellent speeches on Second Reading by a number of my hon. Friends, who put into context the issues surrounding the Bill very well. I will not go over them again. I want instead to concentrate on what is in the Bill and what it will do to move towards the point that we all want to get to, which is to see the support mechanism for domestic and non-domestic customers placed into legislation and supported as well as it can be.
One of the many things that have occurred by way of recent significant U-turns is the fact that the energy price support scheme is now going to last not for two years but for six months. I appreciate that there are, shall we say, warm words behind that, and measures will subsequently be sought to concentrate help for people, but we need to be clear that this Bill is written as if the previous scheme were still in place. Various parts of the Bill, including substantial elements of schedule 6, talk about a two-year programme, after which, by way of a sunset clause, charges should not be raised on energy generators specified in clause 16.
I do not expect the Minister to make immediate manuscript amendments reflecting the change that has taken place between this morning and this afternoon, but he should reflect on the effect it will have on the Bill and whether, by way of a statement to this House or through subsequent changes in secondary legislation, he will introduce into this Bill a more accurate reflection of where we are now. I would be interested to hear from him on that in due course.
The Bill effectively has three parts. Clauses 1 to 8 essentially establish the energy bill relief scheme in legislation, which is just as well because the energy bill relief scheme has so far been effectively voluntary. It is important that we put the scheme into legislation so that it works properly. Not only do the Opposition have no quarrel with that, but we strongly support it.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) told us on Second Reading, however, there are a number of issues relating to the Bill that are not quite so clear-cut. Clause 16 contains a measure that requires designated energy generators—one assumes they consist mostly of renewable generators not in possession of a CfD, although that is not specified in the Bill—to make payments over a period of time that is now in excess of the six-month energy bill relief scheme in order to support that energy bill relief scheme. There is a difference between the two timescales in place under the Bill.
Nor is there clarity, particularly in clause 16, on what the Government mean by “designated energy producers.” What the Government will designate those producers to be is one of the remaining question marks about the Bill. How will the Government decide what the designation looks like? Who is going to be designated? Over what period? And who, by definition, will be excluded from that designation? When we are talking about renewable and low-carbon energy, it is pretty difficult to define exactly who is doing what, who is or is not making super-profits, and who may therefore be excluded from designation or within designation. We are talking about energy companies that run wind farms with renewable obligation certificates. In some instances, those ROCs are relatively recent, and in some instances they cover a longer period of time. The ROC scheme under which they were founded has very different effects.
Dr Whitehead
My hon. Friend makes a good, if somewhat speculative, point. As the Bill mentions, the Government are seeking to regularise the status of various renewable generators into some form of CfD arrangement, but of course the “compensation” one might get varies according to the status of those particular generators that do not have a CfD and are getting their remuneration by other means.
Of course, there are generators in this particular area that are not making super-profits, and indeed are not making profits at all, because in most instances they are community-owned wind farms with a large number of shareholders. The purpose of those shareholdings is, among other things, to keep bills down by paying dividends from the wind farm. Such arrangements should clearly not be designated in the same way as other arrangements, even though these wind farms are perhaps not in receipt of a contract for difference and may look like a number of other arrangements.
My plea is that, first, the Government should define, as soon as possible, what is going to be designated and how it is going to be designated. That should go well beyond what is in this Bill and ensure that those generators that are designated really are those that should pay into a scheme. After reading the Bill, I think it is possible to make those changes so that designation is fair and equitable. I am sure that the Government will, very shortly, want to come out with a scheme that enables that to happen. I will certainly be on the phone to the Minister if it does not happen very quickly.
Dr Whitehead
I am delighted to hear that, and it is one gain from this evening’s debate.
On the third part of the Bill, I very much concur with a lot of what the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose) said. The Bill gives powers to the Minister and the Secretary of State that provide for sweeping arrangements not only to intervene in energy markets, but to override Ofgem in various licensing arrangements. There is a power to give direction and a power to change licences, and a whole range of other measures. A number of industry figures are certainly concerned about the stability of investment they can undertake with those powers on the statute book, not knowing whether those changes could take place at short notice and in a way that may affect their investment decisions and the investment landscape for the future.
At the weekend, a senior source at one energy supplier suggested that the Secretary of State had undertaken a power grab “worthy of Henry VIII”. Obviously, our modernist Secretary of State may well be modelling himself on Henry VIII. I do not know whether he is, but this source said that this
“gives absolute power to the secretary of state over all rules governing all aspects of the UK’s energy industry, in perpetuity.”
He continued:
“That means bypassing Ofgem and the entire licensing and regulatory regime without any safeguards or time constraints and no consultation or appeal process for anyone—supplier, generator, networks—affected by any decision.”
So we are very concerned to ensure that those powers taken by the Secretary of State should at the very least have a sunset clause on them when the energy crisis has abated a little. As we can see from the legislation, no such sunset clauses are provided, which leads to a suspicion that this is a potential serious power grab by the Government, and these are powers to oversee the energy process without any of the checks and balances that we have in the system at the moment. If that is the Government’s intention, it is to be deplored. Again, I hope that at the very least the Minister could clarify his intentions on that section of the Bill and how he intends to limit the activity of these things over a period of time.
We have tabled a number of amendments, and as they relate to some of the comments I have made, I shall briefly address them. Amendment 1 would ensure that the full cost of reductions is passed on to customers. Although a passing through arrangement is contained in the Bill to deal with people such as landlords, park home owners and various others who are taking the rebates on bills on behalf of customers and supposedly passing them on but not actually doing so—I very much welcome those clauses—there are other arrangements for third parties in receipt of funds where they are not necessarily required to pass those rebates on to customers at all. For example, the Low Carbon Contracts Company gets money in from contracts for difference but is by no means obliged to pass that back to customers. It is supposed to pass this back to energy companies, but it does not have to do so, and the energy suppliers themselves have no obligation to pass it back to customers. The amendment tries to close some of those loopholes to make sure that all moneys related to this area are passed on to customers.
New clause 2, on the marginal cost of electricity, was mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North on Second Reading. The new clause would ensure that we would not be in this situation in the first place. If we had sorted out the whole question of the marginal cost of electricity as it relates to all electricity being effectively determined in retail price as if it had derived from gas and the much lower cost of renewables that we have at the moment in the system being effectively discounted, we would not have some of those renewable generators making “super-profits” and being perhaps subject to the ministrations of clause 16. That is because they would be working in the market on their own prices and looking competitively at a price set by their own boundaries, rather than working through gas in the first place. We think it is important that the Government take action on that quickly, which is what our new clause suggests we do.
I know we are running out of time, but let me come to our amendment on the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022 arrangements. Again, as my right hon. Friend said on Second Reading, they were deplorable, as where fossil fuels are concerned 91% of profits can be returned back to those companies, and do not come to the customer to help reduce their bills, if they have investments in fossil fuels for the future. No such arrangement is provided for in this Bill as far as renewable generators are concerned; it is just a request for payment and nothing else. We want the Government to urgently look at this and bring forward a report on what the effect of reducing that 91% arrangement to 5%, for example, would have on the money that would be coming through to help customers pay their bills for the future.
Finally, as we mentioned on Second Reading, we have tabled a couple of amendments to start the process of payments from September, rather than the end of this year, as is proposed in the Bill. We think that would produce quite a lot more money for customers’ bills to be assured in the process. We understand that the Scottish nationalists are moving a manuscript amendment, new clause 18. It would worry us as it is calling for all the arrangements to be sorted out as far as what happens after six months is concerned within one month. We would prefer that we all united behind new clause 8, which would require full disclosure of the profits and turnover of oil and gas companies and various other generators over the next two years.
Jim Shannon
I want to begin by thanking the Government and the Minister for all that they have done thus far in the energy crisis. We all sometimes get a bit caught up with our lists of demands and the things we want done without appreciating the steps that the Government have taken; I want to put that on record before I start.
I am thankful that the people of Northern Ireland are to get the same support as those on the mainland. MPs from Northern Ireland had a Zoom meeting with the Secretary of State last Thursday, and we were very encouraged by what he said, by his delivery and by today’s legislation; this is good news and we thank him for that. Some 68% of households in Northern Ireland use oil, and there is a scattering of households across rural areas—some in my area and some out to the west of the Province—that still use coal, and we all know by how much the price of coal has jumped. The Secretary of State has given encouragement on how support will work for those who use the payment card system.
I want to make a plea on behalf of pensioners. Not every pensioner will use the £100 for energy, so I want to make sure there is a system whereby pensioners are protected and that, if they do not use all the money, the remaining sum can be carried over. The pensioners who have spoken to me about this want that reassurance.
My main reason for speaking is to make a plea for the working poor, as I did earlier in an intervention on the Secretary of State. I know that this finds receptive ears in the Minister and in the Government, because they see those issues that I see every day. There are people in full-time employment who were managing before the crisis but now have to find, for example, an extra £250 for their mortgage and an extra £30 a week for fuel for travel to Belfast from the peninsula. Dog food is also up by 30%, and groceries are up by 20%, with milk up from 99p last year to £1.75 this year—a 75% increase. Those are just a couple of examples of the massive increases that we are experiencing back home.
I go to work on an egg every day—two eggs, to be precise—but eggs are up from 99p for a six-pack to £1.39. Biscuits to go with a cup of tea, which we have in Northern Ireland with regularity, are up some 30%. Those are issues for the working poor, and that is not even adding in the energy issues. I want the Government to ensure that the working poor are key in what they do as they move forward. To be fair, I believe that they have.
I am thankful for the help given so far, but I believe that working families need that extra bit of consideration. They need help to get to work and help to pay for their groceries. They need an uplift in child benefit to allow them to ask for a wage increase. It is not about being able to take family holidays and eating out all the time; it is about surviving and being able to pay their mortgage and all else. What is being done to help those families? The Minister will give us some encouragement in summing up. It is good to have that on the record so that the people back home who ask me about these things will know what has been done. That is aside from energy costs, which are not even part of the equation at this stage.
There is the shop owner, for example, who cannot match the wage increases in the public sector, and her staff know that she cannot do any more than she is. How can we help them? It is great that public sector wages are going up, but how do small and medium-sized enterprises do the same? They cannot. The Government and the Minister must reach out and help. Those businesses are facing electricity bills at four times the previous rate. The hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) referred to an increase of almost 550%. How can anybody absorb that? That is impossible.
The price of goods is up massively. Businesses are fighting to stay alive. The SMEs in my constituency—there is a large number of them—create employment across sectors. So never mind matching public sector pay; we must do more to secure jobs in SMEs by helping their owners.
I gave a commitment that I would not speak for too long, Mr Evans, so I will finish with this. I recognise that money does not grow on trees—if only it did, we could lift it off every day we wanted it—but we do need employment and businesses who hire people. For the working poor, will the Minister and the Government do that wee bit more to ensure that they will not suffer adversely through the crisis that we are all experiencing together?
Graham Stuart
I thank all speakers for their contributions, which have been typically thoughtful. It was a pleasure for the whole Committee and it seemed right to have the ever-genial hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) bringing the Back Bench contributions to a close. I have a lot to cover but will none the less try to keep myself to a limited time.
The hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), who spoke for His Majesty’s Opposition, asked whether we will need to amend the Bill because of the changes announced this morning by the Chancellor. Counsel’s advice is that we will not. The powers in the Bill fit perfectly well with that six-month period and any review and extension that comes thereafter. He also asked about the definition of electricity generators, including community groups, and the appropriateness of that. The affirmative procedure will be used for the first regulations precisely to allow us to define that, understand that and ensure that we are targeting the organisations we wish to target and excluding those we do not.
On Henry VIII powers, and why clauses 21 and 22 do not have sunset clauses, the Bill makes clear that the clauses must be used in response to the current energy situation, or in connection with the Act, regulations or schemes within it. The vast majority of the powers in the Bill are time-limited, including the powers to make regulations and schemes that might require such modifications and directions.
Graham Stuart
I am going to press on, if I may.
Turning to amendments 2, 3, 10 and 11, and new clauses 7, 9 and 17, for amendments 10 and 11, designating a scheme is simply a matter of identifying the scheme documents that the Secretary of State already has the powers to provide. Therefore, the affirmative procedure would be disproportionate. New clause 7 requires the undertaking of an impact assessment on setting the price reduction at pre-April Ofgem cap levels. The unprecedented level of support introduced via the scheme and others in the Bill means that I do not think this is necessary and I ask Members not to press it to a Division.
Graham Stuart
I have so much to do and a duty to cover as much as I can, having agreed not to go on too long.
New clause 9 aims to remove regional variations from standing charges. Ofgem, which is responsible for the network charging regime, is considering that matter and we should not pre-empt the review’s outcome in the Bill.
Amendments 2 and 3 aim to enable the backdating of the gas price reduction scheme in Great Britain to begin from 8 September. The Government have designed the scheme to work in combination with the 22 May cost of living package to which I referred. That ensures that the most vulnerable households will see little change in their energy between last winter and this. I therefore do not see any need to alter the operative date of the energy price guarantee schemes.
I move on to amendments 19, 17, 18 and 7, new clause 5 and amendment 5 on the energy bill relief scheme. On amendments 17 and 19, the Government fully intend to introduce regulations under clause 9 and we expect them to be laid in Parliament by the beginning of November. I have committed to publishing a review of the scheme in three months.
Graham Stuart
Indeed. On amendments 5 and 7, I am pleased to note that the hon. Members for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) and for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) agree with my decision to extend the eligibility date for customers on fixed-term contracts back to 1 December 2021. I hope that they also welcome our commitment to review the scheme, and I hope that that will please the hon. Member for Brent North.
David Linden
Hope springs eternal. In his summing up, the Minister has not yet touched on new clause 1. I suspect that that is nothing to do with the fact that he does not know what a tenement is, but can he touch on new clause 1, please?
Graham Stuart
I addressed new clause 1 in my remarks at the beginning of the Committee. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was here, but if he was, he should have paid attention, and if he was not, I suggest he should have been.
I turn to amendments 16, 6 and 9 and new clauses 12 and 10 regarding consumers who are off the gas grid. Amendment 16 seeks to establish a domestic fuel reduction scheme in Great Britain for off-gas grid homes. The Government are providing a set payment to such homes through the alternative fuel payment scheme. There has been a lot of attention on off-grid homes.
Graham Stuart
I will not. Amendments 6 and 9 and new clause 12 would require equivalent support for domestic and non-domestic consumers. We have committed to providing equivalent support for consumers on alternative fuels. The Secretary of State has said that he will put the workings in the Library, and I appeal to hon. Members on both sides of the Committee to recognise that the support is comparable. It is therefore important not to tell those who are off-grid that they are not getting comparable support when indeed they are.
Barry Gardiner
On a point of order, Mr Evans. Will you confirm that when a Minister, or indeed, any Member of Parliament, refers by name to another Member, it is courtesy and normal practice to allow them to respond to the point that was made? Indeed, in this case, the Minister talked about me doing more, as a Minister in the Labour Government, on ensuring that we had insulation. However, he seems to forget that in 2013, his Government cut that by 92%—
The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. The hon. Gentleman is doing an intervention now. Is the Minister giving way?
Graham Stuart
The hon. Gentleman has just shown why no one in the Chamber wished me to give way to him, other than himself.
The Government have committed to delivery of the payment this winter. Requiring that payment to be made directly to consumer bank accounts would significantly slow this down. Similarly, new clause 10 would require the Government to implement a heating oil voucher scheme for households in Northern Ireland. Again, that would significantly slow down delivery, so one of the challenges that we have had in engineering the various programmes is to make sure—
Graham Stuart
In the knowledge that the hon. Gentleman is succinct and will be welcomed by the Committee, I give way to him briefly.
Alan Brown
I am grateful. Our amendment 16 echoed the language that is in the clauses on the electricity and gas support mechanism by stating:
“The Secretary of State may establish a domestic fuel reduction scheme…for off gas grid”
properties. It does not compel the Government to do anything; it just gives them the power to do that. Why will the Minister not accept that simple amendment, which states that the Secretary of State “may establish” that scheme?
Graham Stuart
There are many statutes that include the word “may” from which we can take it that the Government will do what is set out. I am pleased to say that it is absolutely our intention to ensure that those off grid are treated comparably to those on grid.
Peter Aldous
The past 10 years have been remarkably successful, with the offshore wind industry and the Government working hand in hand. The industry has raised genuine concerns, which I briefly outlined in relation to clauses 16, 19 and 21, about the direction of that relationship and how it is being imperilled. Will the Minister agree to meet the industry and address those concerns as the Bill progresses?
Graham Stuart
As my hon. Friend would doubtless expect, I regularly meet energy companies. I have absolute confidence. One of my biggest concerns when we were looking at the package was to ensure that there are no disincentives to investment in renewables. It is noticeable that the EU has come up with a scheme. We are talking about prices linked to gas that are completely outwith any of the expectations of those who run long-standing nuclear and other low-carbon production. This is an intervention that deals with prices well beyond any prior expectation. It will therefore not disincentivise or undermine any existing business plans.
The contracts for difference that this Government brought in are now being mimicked around the world. In the last auction, 11 GW came in: so successful was it that we are now moving to annual auctions and CFDs. It is also worth saying, on the record, that renewables obligation certificates and other support mechanisms are being entirely honoured; this measure is merely about the spot price, which is excessive. We will come forward with further proposals in due course and will consult with the industry and others to ensure that we act in a way that does not disincentivise investment.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 2 to 30 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
New Clause 3
Report on additional expenditure treated as incurred for purposes of section 1 of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act 2022
“(1) The Secretary of State must, within six months of the date of Royal Assent to this Act, publish and lay before Parliament a report on the effect of reducing the amount of the allowance under section 2(3) of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act from 80% to 5%.
(2) The Report must set out projections of the effect of the reduction set out in subsection (1) on domestic and non-domestic energy bills.”—(Dr Whitehead.)
This new clause requires the Secretary of State to produce a report assessing the impact of reducing the investment allowance for oil and gas companies as set out in the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act from 80% to 5%, and in particular to assess such a reduction’s impact on domestic and non-domestic bills.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
Copyright (Rights and Remuneration of Musicians, etc.) Bill
Graham Stuart Excerpts(3 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Andy Carter
One of the great pleasures of coming into this House was meeting the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). I remember, having worked in radio, hearing his songs on the radio, including “Loch Lomond” from his days in Runrig. I was able to go away and listen to his songs, and in fact I have some of them on my phone now, so having listened to him speak, I can listen to him sing as well.
Andy Carter
Absolutely. One of the great advantages of the internet is that it has opened up to us so many artists, some of whom were, I have to say, before my day. The internet allows such discovery to continue in a way that perhaps would not have been possible without it.
Dean Russell
I thank the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) for making sure that I stay on track, as it were.
The reason I am saying all this is that I am trying to give an illustration of how people get into the music business. Some people may not necessarily be No. 1 pop stars on Radio 1 or at the forefront of everyone’s mind when we think about rock and roll or music streaming, but there is a huge weight of people who are fans—individuals or groups who are more at the edges. I have heard statements such as the following from the BPI:
“This Bill would bind British music in red tape, reduce income for the most entrepreneurial artists, stifle investment and innovation by record labels, and disproportionately harm the independent sector.”
That is why I am saying these things.
It is not just about streaming in the broad sense or the famous artists we have all heard of, including our fantastic colleague the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire. It is about the long tail of artists and the people who want to be able to access art—music is art. It is about a wide range of speakers, artists and voices. It is also about diversity and making sure that up-and-coming new artists can be heard in the next five or 10 years and that we have the right infrastructure in place in the UK to enable that and support them. My concern about the Bill is that, noble as its goals are, it risks having an inadvertent impact that may not deliver on that aim. That is why I tell these stories; I assure hon. Members that it is not about trying to speak for the sake of speaking.
Graham Stuart
We might expect the major corporations and music labels to say that the Bill would affect their ability to invest, but that does not necessarily mean that it is not true. Having already seen the market share of UK artists reduce over recent years, we really need to get the balance right, understand the dynamics of the system and proceed. We are all grateful to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) for giving us the opportunity to discuss the matter and look at it very carefully.
Dean Russell
I thank my hon. Friend for that valuable contribution.
If I may jump ahead again, I have been very involved in radio. I had my own show called “Dean’s Poetry Show”. It did not have the most inventive of titles, but I played all sorts of music on it, from Frank Zappa to John Lennon and even Max Bygraves—hon. Members may remember “Show Me the Way to Go Home”, which is what many may wish to do at the end of this speech—right through to contemporary bands such as Oasis. I found out about the complexity of the industry and of the reasons why people get into music and want to be performing artists.
Off the back of the radio show, I set up an acoustic night. I found that there are lots of people who just enjoy doing music. They do not necessarily want to be at the top of the charts; they just want to be able to spread their music to as wide an audience as possible. I remember learning the guitar at the time and really getting into the mechanics of the artistry. We have to ensure that whatever the outcome of today and whatever the Government do, we continue to inspire people to pick up a guitar, to learn the piano, to be able to use the new techniques available.
I will come to digital in a moment. On an iPhone or an iPad it is now possible very quickly to create a song and put down our thoughts, with tools such as GarageBand. We can do things that perhaps were not possible just a few years ago, but that means that the opportunity for people to be musicians has grown exponentially. We need to make sure that that exponential growth is not limited by our approaches to Bills, legislation and guidance.
I feel like the privileged position of being MP for Watford was a calling for me, because Watford is such a creative space. Over the past few years, I have had the good fortune to see that culture and art up close. Watford has the Colosseum, which has done recordings for films such as “The Lord of the Rings”—really incredible pieces that have been heard around the world by millions, if not billions, of people. There are also brilliant small locations such as The Horns, which has regular bands and a lot of fantastic cover bands. The LP Café is a celebration of vinyl, where people can try to find music on their own time, having a nice coffee while exploring new types of music; this often ties into the artwork as well. There are also nightclubs such as PRYZM and others, where people can just go and have a drink, and enjoy the music for what it is. The key thing is that music ties across so many areas. My worry with the Bill is that we might end up unintentionally limiting that ability.
AIM has recently said:
“We have expressed our concerns and are open to reviewing and discussing them with all stakeholders to figure out the best way forward. Legislating before this is reckless.”
That comes back to the point about understanding diversity.
Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)
I begin by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) for his tireless work to bring this Bill to the House and, more broadly, to raise the profile and significance of the rights and remuneration of musicians in Parliament and beyond.
How do we get there? How do we get those rights and remunerations for our musicians and creatives? How do we ensure a fair payment for artists in this age of streaming? First off, we should acknowledge that streaming has completely changed the economics of music, and understand too that streaming saved the music business. It made it convenient once again for people to consume music legally, rather than through illegal file sharing and copying, as many hon. Members have talked eloquently and way too knowledgeably about today.
The idea of every single song being legally available in one place is quite incredible. It is now commonplace, but it was a brave and innovative vision and move from Daniel Ek, Spotify’s founder, back in 2006. Streaming has significantly broadened access to music. There were 100 million new music subscribers in 2020, taking the total to 467 million, whereas back in 2015 it stood at 76.8 million. Each one of those subscribers is paying on average £120 a year, so we can see the growth and the enormity of streaming. Yes, it has revolutionised the industry, but it is worth a significant amount of money that needs to be fairly distributed among the writers, creatives and performers.
My focus today, however, is on these needs that must be addressed: the power imbalance between the artist, the record company and the publisher; the conflict of interest between the major publishers and the record companies; and the lack of transparency in the industry. Let us look first at the relationship and interplay between the three major record labels, which hold the master recordings, and the control they have over the three major publishing companies, which hold the song copyrights.
The three major record companies, Universal, Warner and Sony, own the three largest publishers, Universal Music Publishing Group, Warner Chappell Music and Sony Music Publishing, respectively. Obviously, concerns are raised about how those three publishers can advocate for songwriters’ interests if they are being controlled by their parent companies.
As a guide to how the revenue from music is split, the typical income earned by a master holder is about 80% and the typical income earned by a publisher is about 15%. Given that the major record labels own the publishers, it is in their interest to push for the income received on the master-sale side to be greater than on the writers-publishing side. The record companies, not the publishers, also do the deals with the digital service platforms so they can take the lion’s share of royalties from those songs.
To add to that, if hon. Members can believe it, there is even an imbalance in the speed of the payment. The record companies are paid much faster than the publishing side, because they control the supply chain. They take payments through an automated process, while the publishing side is paid through a more cumbersome manual process. Those imbalances, and the further imbalances that run from them, should be the focal point of policy makers and industry scrutiny.
I welcome the Government’s intervention in referring the matter to the Competition and Markets Authority. I have a couple of other helpful suggestions that might go some way to improving the relationship between artists, record companies and publishers. Songwriters and artists should have a direct seat at the table in the remuneration discussions and should be represented by their peers, not the record labels or publishers.
A music stream should be treated as a licence, not a sale. A licence gives the artist 50% of the royalties for a song, whereas a sale gives them between 18% and 30%. Since streaming became the main mechanism for consuming music, record companies have unilaterally decided that a stream should be considered a sale, because it maximises their profits. Artists and songwriters need to update clauses in their contracts to reflect the true nature of how their songs are consumed, which is via a licence.
Clarification also needs to be introduced to the grey area of breakage in record companies and digital service providers. A streaming is not included in any detail in most agreements and breakage is not subject to a contractual method of distribution. Confirmation is needed that all income gained in that way by major record labels is distributed fairly and appropriately. Some have even suggested a kitemark.
On the lack of transparency, for an artist to understand their payslip or royalty statement, they need to be shown two key things: how many units they sold and how much each unit sold for. If an artist wishes to inquire about the real level of sales, they will need an audit which, at the moment, is incredibly expensive and can take about 24 months to book and complete. That is not how payslip querying should be. The artist never gets to see the total amount that has come in. An online seller of goods would know the gross amounts and what needed to be deducted for services and commission, but that is not the case in the music industry. That needs to be changed.
In a final twist, if an artist manages to get their books audited to see what is coming in from the streaming service, should they ask for back-up information—in the old days, they could get the cost of CDs and how many copies were sold—in this instance, from streaming, that is covered by a non-disclosure agreement that removes the right to see how the money flow comes in, because companies say that it affects their ability to be competitive. Such things need to be changed.
Writers and artists are businesses, entrepreneurs and inventors who have created a product. We have to be on the side of those creatives and musicians, because they deserve their full dues. As the hon. Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) rightly pointed out, covid shone a spotlight on the area. In the past, artists could go out and earn extra money by performing at live events, but they could not in covid. They relied more heavily on what was coming in from streaming, but there was nothing there to rely on. Many of them have been left without income for a considerable period, and have therefore turned to the state for support.
It would be remiss of me, as a former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, not to ask this question. Why should the taxpayer pick up the bill for the international giants who are not paying their contributors, creators and writers correctly? That is wrong. We might have needed to provide some extra money through universal credit, and that would be right, but these international companies should have paid their way and not asked the British taxpayer to pay those wages on their behalf.
There are many reasons—and I say this from a Conservative point of view—why we have got to get this right. These are points of principle. We do not believe in monopolies controlling an industry; we do not believe in supersized entities at all, whether they are the state or giant companies, and nor do we believe in imbalances in negotiations or conflicts of interest. However, we do believe in a fair deal for the taxpayer, and for the Exchequer too—money should be coming into the Exchequer to pay for all the public sector services that we need—and we believe absolutely in the rights of the individual. We need to stand up for these people.
It has been argued that the record companies must spend vast amounts of these artists’ money to pay for new artists. That is questionable, if not risible. Any other business that saw such a failure rate in the new products it was bringing to the market would look at its business model and ask, “Are we getting this right?” That is particularly relevant in an age when we can spot a star by looking at the number of followers on Instagram, YouTube and various other platforms.
Moreover, the companies are reducing the money of artists who have done well. They are spending the money of artists to whom, I would say, they owe a duty of care because they have contracts with them—contracts on which they embarked on a potential, hopeful, going-forward basis. Surely the artist to whom they owe that duty of care must come before the potential artist.
I would also throw in an auditor for these companies’ books. If they are reducing profits from their artists, on their own books, that means that they are reducing the amount of tax that they pay to the country.
Graham Stuart
My right hon. Friend is making a brilliant speech, but I am less convinced by that last point. The system does work on the basis of “blooding” a vast number of artists, and there is no business model in existence that can accurately predict who those people are. I take on board many of the points that my right hon. Friend made so well earlier in her speech, but we need to ensure that the funding and the machinery are there. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) said he accepted the model whereby they invest so that one’s artistry can reach a market. If we break that, we break the future for a young British artist, and we do so by rewarding the giants of yesterday who might want more money today. We do not want to cut off the future for the artist who wants to make it tomorrow.
Esther McVey
I do not have everyone’s company accounts, but I have been looking at those of Warner Music Group, and in particular at the amount that it is spending on what are described as
“Artist Repertoire costs as a proportion of recorded income”—
the money that it is investing in going out to find those new artists. I note that in 2017 the figure was 31.92%, and I am sure my hon. Friend will be surprised to learn that it went down in 2018, 2019 and 2020, to 30.13%. The amount that Warner Music Group says it is investing has gone down. As I said earlier, should these companies wish to identify an artist who could flourish, it is much easier to do so than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago: they can see what an artist’s following is online.
I end with a couple of questions for the Minister. Will he update the House on what is happening with the Competition and Markets Authority? When will we know the decisions and conclusions? Could he refer the legal contracts and this conflict of interest to the Law Society for investigation? It is time the record companies recognised the unjustifiable imbalances between the revenue they receive and the revenue received by artists, and adjusted their models to better account for the growing popularity of streaming services. For that reason I will be supporting the Bill today.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (George Freeman)
It is a great pleasure to be here today. Is not this a wonderful example of what Fridays are for—a proper cross-party debate that tackles a serious issue? I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) and the Select Committee for their substantial report in the summer; I assure them that I and officials in DCMS and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy have read it carefully. Indeed, it is because of that report that we are having this debate today.
I pay tribute to all colleagues who have spoken so far. I know that more want to speak, but I wanted to take this opportunity to set out the headlines of the Government’s response for Opposition Members before they decide to respond. I cannot pay tribute to everyone who has spoken, but I particularly want to mention: my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), who is a former DCMS Secretary and was a distinguished Chair of the DCMS Select Committee, whose comments were important and well noted; and my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter), who demonstrated his experience in the industry. I also thank a whole range of voices to which I have been listening carefully. The tone of the debate has been extremely welcome, and I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cardiff West for bringing the debate to the House in that way, with this level of cross-party engagement. It is all to the good and this is what the public expect us to do on a Friday in private Members’ business: come together and tackle key issues.
I am responding on behalf of the Government as Minister for Innovation at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and Minister for copyright and intellectual property, which is what the Bill before us actually amends in law. I am here as a member of a Government who are taking this issue seriously, especially through my Department working closely with DCMS.
One of my primary responsibilities is for innovation across Government, so I want to put this issue in the context of the broader opportunity for digital innovation in the economy, including through the deep digital technologies of AI, quantum and such technologies, which I am looking to support through our science and innovation budget. We should also look at this issue with reference to the role of important digital clusters—the gaming community and others—that are driving innovation in medical technologies and a whole range of other parts of our digital economy. Indeed, earlier this summer, I took the Big Tent Foundation to Coventry, where we were joined by the Secretary of State for BEIS, to celebrate the work of the often unseen digital entrepreneurs in the gaming cluster, who are not often seen in the newspapers, but who are driving huge investment, innovation, and opportunity for people to engage in the digital economy.
It was for that reason that yesterday at the levelling-up Cabinet committee, we had a long conversation about the importance of the digital creative sector in supporting opportunities around the economy. Many of our now most celebrated digital and technology clusters started with strong cultural, artistic and musical elements. In fact, silicon valley started in the ’60s as a home for non-conformist, free-thinking, fresh-thinking entrepreneurs, before the term was really widely understood. It was the lifestyle, the surfing and the music that laid the foundations for what is now the world’s greatest technology cluster. Similarly, in Cornwall we are seeing the merger of lifestyle and recreation tech entrepreneurs linked to surfing and music. Music is not just in a silo.
I am also here in a personal capacity. My family has substantial interests in the industry, although I am not declaring commercial interests, as I have none myself. My brother works in the film industry, where people are better paid. It is a bit feast or famine. When there is a film, people tend to get paid pretty well, and between films it is a bit famine-ish—but they are paid well in general. My wife is a theatre director. People in theatre are paid rather less well than in film, although many of them sometimes work in films, if they are lucky.
In our house, we have a lodger who is a family friend. He is a nocturnal entrepreneur —I see him only at the beginning and end of the day—and I asked him the other day, “What are you doing upstairs?”. He is a digital music entrepreneur, making music at night. I asked him how the streaming sector is working. His response was very interesting and I want to share it with the House, as he said: “If it wasn’t for Spotify, no one would know me. I’m using the streaming platform to get noticed. I don’t make any money out of it, but what happens is that people then pick me up on TikTok, they pick me up on Instagram, they then reach out and message me.” He said, “I’m now selling cassettes”, at which point I looked at him! I am old enough to have had a collection of cassettes—indeed, when I bought my last car but one I was worried that there was not a cassette player and what I was going to do with my old cassettes. Then I had the same problem with my CDs. I looked at my lodger and said, “Cassettes?” and he said yes. As colleagues around the House more knowledgeable than me have highlighted, there is now a huge market in cassettes, as indeed there is in the renaissance of vinyl.
My lodger has used the streaming sector to create a footprint for himself, but of course what he really wants to be able to do is fill venues. When I asked, “Could you fill a venue here in London?” he said, “I could half-fill one in London, but I could fill 10 venues in Los Angeles.” I think that speaks volumes about the level of global digital entrepreneurial activity going on in this country—of course, the pandemic has robbed many of our musical artists of those venue-related, event-related incomes—and highlights a lot of the issues that the Select Committee has rightly brought to the fore about the impact of the level of digitalisation in the music industry.
My headline message is that we in Government want to view this area as a creative industries ecosystem, and make sure that Britain is the best place in the world for musicians to practise, innovate and create, recognising that we are in an incredibly competitive global environment; nobody wants to pass a well-intended law that inadvertently undermines the UK’s position as a leading centre. In this debate, we need to think about the artists—in this case, the musicians—and the labels and the platforms, as well as the relationships among those three in creating a functioning, vibrant, innovative and, indeed, profitable ecosystem in which revenues are distributed fairly and in a way that leads to UK leadership.
My commitment, on behalf of the Government, is that we will take this moment, with the report and this very well presented Bill, to do what many in the House have urged us to do, which is to look quickly—not to delay, but to look quickly—at all of the issues and the impacts, and make sure that we frame a Government response that does not just deal with the immediate issue today, but means that our successors in this House in 10 or 20 years’ time say that this Parliament got it right and tackled it in the right way.
That is really about, yes, fairness. Fairness is an important word, and I think an important value that most people listening to this debate, who may not understand the complexities—and, boy, there are many—of the modern digital music streaming ecosystem, understand. People understand that fairness does not mean everybody being paid the same amount every day, which tends to lead to a communist society in which very little is to be distributed. Fairness means that people are rewarded properly and appropriately for their part in an ecosystem, reflecting the role of others and of competition. It is also about making sure that the UK remains a powerhouse in the global digital ecosystem, and in particular that our musicians, on which this Bill focuses, are properly rewarded.
I want to highlight that “musician” is one word but covers a multitude of different people—singers, bands, DJs, instrumentalists, non-featured artists, session musicians, backing singers, lyricists and composers. There is a huge range of people, and before we legislate we just need to be cognisant that we will be legislating to shape their lifestyles and their livelihoods. It is part of my responsibility as a Minister to make sure that we listen to all of them, even those who are not so noisy, and make sure that, before we change the law, we are cognisant of any unintended side effects. We need to make sure that all musicians are benefiting from the UK legal framework, and not just be pushed by one group without being cognisant of the effects on others.
I also want to highlight—indeed, I did not know this before preparing in the last two or three weeks for this debate—how musicians actually make their money. If we look at the data, we see that, at 31%, live performance is the main revenue stream. That has of course been hit very hard by the pandemic, which is what has brought this issue to the fore. Then there is teaching of music at 9%, audio streaming royalties at 6%, physical sales at 5%, digital sales at 5%, sessional orchestral work at 5%, broadcasts at 5%, public performances at 4%, commissions for stage at 3%, merchandise at 3%, video streaming royalties at 3%, and a whole raft of others. The truth is that there are multiple revenue streams for most musicians, and some of course only receive some of those, but we need to be cognisant of the broader musician revenue stream, and indeed of how complex it is, before we legislate.
When a song is streamed on a service such as Spotify, revenue from that stream flows through a streaming value chain that has taken shape in the past few years. At the start, the streaming service takes its cut, which is typically around 30%, although there is no industry standard, and the rest is split among all the other parties back down the supply chain. People’s ability to negotiate depends, of course, on their strength in the market. I dare say that if I produced a piece of music, my negotiating power in the market would be very weak, whereas the band led by colleagues here in the House have established that they have an audience and a market. I pay tribute to their work in not only using those revenues to support charities but in highlighting issues in the House.
It is and should be a competitive market. I think we would all accept, as people who make their living on their feet, speaking to issues, that if we went to Hyde Park corner, some of us would attract bigger audiences than others. I do not think we would pass a Bill that compelled the public to listen to us all for the same amount of time with the same level of interest. We cannot legislate for that and we all know that. We do, though, want to make sure that successful artists who generate quality music are rewarded properly.
We accept that there is a problem and we accept the fundamental case made by the Select Committee. We have already started by launching the Competition and Markets Authority. The industry is very vertical, if I can put it that way, and we want to make sure that the revenues flow fairly and there is no anti-competitive practice. We are also looking, through the Intellectual Property Office, at how other countries have done it: there have been a number of reforms around the world and we want to be sure that we have collected the data on any reforms that have worked positively for musicians across the board and on those that have had negative effects.
In the past two weeks, I have had extensive meetings with the hon. Member for Cardiff West, in a positive spirit, and with colleagues on the Government Benches, including my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey), and around 40 or 50 other colleagues who have taken interest. I have also taken the time to meet people in the industry.
Before colleagues decide how they wish to proceed, they should know that views are very mixed. I have had 50 submissions this week that I was reading late last night. The Association of Independent Music accepts the Select Committee’s case that there is a problem, but does not accept that
“the solutions this Bill proposes will lead to the outcomes its supporters hope for—and the Bill risks damaging independent music”
by making
“the UK a less attractive place to invest and record”.
The British Phonographic Industry said:
“The Bill is premature in rushing to a legislative solution before the market impact…has been properly explored”.
We have had submissions from a huge range of hugely creatively and entrepreneurial UK labels. I will not even begin to read out the whole list, but I have here a letter with at least 20 logos on it. In November, a group of them wrote to the Prime Minister: “We are writing as a group of British independent record labels concerned about the unintended impact”—I do not think anybody has any doubt about the intent behind the Bill or, indeed, the Select Committee’s work behind it—“on our industry of the copyright Bill that is due to be debated in the House”. They urged us not to accept the Bill quickly as it is written but to take it as a spur, as the hon. Member for Cardiff West himself urged, to do the necessary research.
Jeepster Recordings, which is based in Hackney, wrote to the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) to say:
“I am writing to you from Jeepster Recordings in Stoke Newington. We are an independent record company based in your constituency. We began in 1996 and have a very small creatively successful back catalogue which includes the early Belle and Sebastian and Snow Patrol albums…We have deep concerns about the impact of this Bill on the future of our business and feel that there are parts of it that, if approved, will destroy a business we have managed to keep going for 26 years…As with a lot of small labels, we invested a large amount of money in our artists and struggled as a company at a financial loss for several years whilst promoting them in a market skewed in favour of the major labels”,
which is the point that the Bill seeks to tackle.
We are keen to make sure that we get this right and pass a piece of legislation, if that is what it takes, or work with the Competition and Markets Authority to put in place the right measures to make sure that the industry—the labels—respond in the right way. Ultimately, before the long and slow process of legislation, we would like to find an industry solution, if we can, which is why we have brought together a series of working groups with industry to start to put feet to the fire and ask some hard questions about what they are doing to make sure that we properly remunerate artists.
Graham Stuart
There is huge interest and real concern across the House about getting this right. Often the House comes together like this on an issue, but then somehow in the Government it goes into the sidings. Can the Minister reassure all colleagues across the House who want to see action that he and the Government are committed to taking it forward energetically?
George Freeman
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, a distinguished Back Bencher and former Minister, for raising that point. I myself have had private Members’ Bills, including ten-minute rule Bills, adopted by the Government; I have withdrawn them on the basis of an undertaking from the Minister. I have spoken to the hon. Member for Cardiff West, and obviously I understand that he wants to make his point, but I ask politely at the Dispatch Box, for the record, whether he might be prepared to withdraw the Bill today, work with me on tackling the measures in it, and bring it back in due course if he feels that the measures that I have put in place are inappropriate.
Net Zero Strategy and Heat and Buildings Strategy
Graham Stuart Excerpts(3 years, 2 months ago)
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Greg Hands
That is sort of a question, for which I thank the hon. Gentleman. He might be a proponent of the Labour party’s net zero by 2030 policy. I am not sure whether the shadow Secretary of State supports that policy, which I think was ratified at the Labour party conference.
We have already talked about carbon capture, utilisation and storage, which is a sound technology in which the UK will look to be a world leader. The Climate Change Committee itself has said that it will not be possible for every single part of the UK economy to be net zero. That is the importance of the word “net” in all of this. It is about making sure that we get to net zero by 2050, so it does not have to apply across all sectors. Of course we want it to apply across all sectors, and the North Sea transition deal for the oil and gas sector has a commitment to go to net zero, but overall it is about making sure the country gets to net zero by 2050.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
I congratulate the Minister on today’s announcement. We will be celebrating the decision to increase the home upgrade grant and, of course, the excellent decision to make the east coast cluster one of the two carbon capture projects in the initial stage. Does he agree that we must make sure that, following the success of our offshore wind deployment, we build industrial capability in carbon capture and storage and in hydrogen so that we can be an export superpower in these areas over the years ahead?
Greg Hands
My hon. Friend and I spent many happy, productive years working together in the Department for International Trade to market our technological breakthroughs in clean energy, particularly in offshore wind. He makes an extremely strong point about CCUS. When I talk to people in the sector, one of the points they make most frequently is about the UK’s ability to be an early mover, to get in quickly and to take advantage of export capabilities. I completely agree and commend my hon. Friend for the work he did over quite some time as our exports Minister.