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Royal Assent

(Royal Assent)
Monday 16th March 2020

(1 year, 3 months ago)

Lords Chamber

Read Hansard Text Bill Main Page

The following Acts were given Royal Assent:

Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Act,

NHS Funding Act.

The following Measure was given Royal Assent:

Church of England (Miscellaneous Provisions) Measure.

NHS Funding Bill (Money Bill)

(3rd reading)
Wednesday 26th February 2020

(1 year, 3 months ago)

Lords Chamber

Read Hansard Text

Second Reading (and remaining stages)

Moved by

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
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That the Bill be now read a second time.

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell (Con)
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My Lords, the NHS is the top priority of the British people and this Government. The NHS itself has a long-term plan to transform services in this country and to ensure that it continues to deliver world-class care for everyone while transforming itself into a sustainable service fit to face the challenges of the 21st century.

To deliver this plan, the NHS has told us how much funding it needs, and this Government are providing it—£33.9 billion extra a year by 2024. Through this Bill, we will provide the NHS with the financial certainty of a fully costed financial settlement over the next four years. Let me be clear about those numbers. This Bill will guarantee that the NHS budget will rise from £121 billion in 2019-20 to £148 billion in 2023-24.

This is the first time any Government have placed such a commitment to public services in legislation. By putting this commitment into law, the Bill removes any political uncertainty around the level of funding for the NHS. In doing so, it gives the NHS the stability it needs to plan for how to deliver the long-term plan over the next four years. This multiyear funding settlement means the NHS is no longer confined to planning on an inefficient annual cycle in which long-term interests can become obscured by short-term uncertainties about future funding.

Instead, this Bill means that the NHS can make investments now, confident that it will have the money it said it needs in future. This is better not just for patients, who will continue to get a world-class service fit for the 21st century, or for the workforce, who can focus on what they do best—delivering clinical excellence—but for taxpayers. It is not just me saying it; this is what the NHS is saying. Sir Simon Stevens said:

“we can now face the next five years with renewed certainty. This … settlement provides the funding we need to shape a long-term plan for key improvements in cancer, mental health and other critical services.”

By bringing forward this legislation, the Government are giving an ironclad guarantee to protect this NHS funding. It creates a double-lock commitment that places a legal duty on both the Secretary of State and the Treasury to uphold this minimum level of NHS revenue funding over the next four years. This point is very important: the legislation explicitly states that the Bill establishes a floor, not a ceiling, for how much we spend on our most vital and valued public service.

I will give noble Lords some examples of what this money will be spent on. The financial stability will give the NHS the space to invest in innovative technology and harness digital revolutions, to move services into the community so that people are treated in the right place at the right time, and to work together to design modern, integrated health services.

During the engagement with noble Lords, and in the other place, there was, quite rightly, significant interest in particular budget items. The area of most concern was undoubtedly mental health funding, which came up time and again. Within this financial settlement, spending on mental health will rise by an additional £2.3 billion by 2023-24, meaning it will increase faster than spending on physical health, which represents a significant step in moving towards proper parity of esteem. This historic level of investment in mental health will ensure that the Government can drive forward one of the most ambitious mental health reform programmes anywhere in Europe.

This funding will improve access to evidence-based and meaningful care for 370,000 additional adults by 2023-24. This will include, for example, adults with eating disorders, people with complex mental health difficulties who are diagnosed with personality disorders, and people with mental health rehabilitation needs.

This funding will deliver our commitment that 345,000 additional children and young people will be able to access mental health services and school-based mental health support teams by 2023-24. This will mean that by 2023-24 there will be a comprehensive offer for 0 to 25 year-olds that reaches across mental health services for children and young people and adults. Access standards for children and young people’s eating disorder services will be maintained, and there will be 24/7 mental health crisis care provision for children and young people in general hospitals and the community in every area of the country. We are not there yet, but this Government recognise that our mental health and our physical health must be seen on an equal footing. They are working hard to ensure that mental health is treated as seriously as physical health.

Let me give some other ideas of what else the funding in this Bill will deliver. It will help to create 50 million more GP appointments each year so that we can reduce the time people have to wait to see a GP. It will pay for new cancer screening programmes and faster diagnosis so that we can save the lives of 55,000 more people with cancer by 2030. It will pay for the prevention, detection and treatment of cardiovascular disease so that we can prevent 150,000 strokes and heart attacks by 2030.

This funding will help us to create more services in the community, closer to home, with pharmacies playing a much bigger role. It will allow the NHS to invest in innovative technology such as genomics and artificial intelligence, to create more precise, more personalised and more effective treatments. It will also allow the NHS to upgrade outdated technology to save time for staff and save the lives of patients. Above all, the record funding in the Bill will allow everyone in the NHS to work together to make long-term decisions about how the health system should be organised and delivered—not tied to what we have done in the past, necessarily, but driven by a clear view of what the NHS must do in the future.

Let me say a few words about funding outside the scope of the Bill. This £33.9 billion commitment is for NHS England’s revenue spending only. It is important to remember that, in addition to this funding, we have made a number of commitments that are outside the scope of the Bill, including on training and capital. On training, we made a clear commitment in our manifesto to deliver 50,000 more nurses. The latest figures show that the NHS now has a record number of registered nurses, midwives, nursing associates and nurses in training. But the truth is that we need more. We need not only the right number of nurses, but for those nurses to have the right skills, as nursing increasingly becomes a high-skilled and highly technical role.

So, from this September, we will give every student nurse a free, non-repayable training grant worth at least £5,000 each year to recruit more people into nursing. We are also expanding the routes into nursing with more nursing associates and apprentices, making it easier to become a fully registered nurse. We are also prioritising the care of our nursing staff to encourage more of them to stay in the NHS for longer. This new training package to get more nurses into the NHS is in addition to the funding contained in this Bill. We have purposefully not included training in the Bill, as the Government are working with NHS England and HEE to identify and develop a number of programmes to deliver doctors and the 50,000 new nurses. It would be premature to legislate for the cost before we have completed that work.

The NHS also needs more money for capital investment. Better NHS infrastructure is a major priority for the Government. Modern buildings with cutting-edge facilities and equipment are essential to delivering the NHS transformation we want to see over the next decade—40 new hospitals across the country, £2.7 billion for the first six hospitals alone, £850 million for 20 hospital upgrades and £450 million for new scanners and the latest AI technology. This is just to get on with those infrastructure schemes that have already been given the green light; there will be more. More capital funding will be allocated as plans are developed and costed. We do not want to include it in this Bill before the plans have been fully worked out. There will therefore be additional funding for areas that are not covered by this Bill, including public health and social care; they will be dealt with at future fiscal events.

This is unlikely to be last word on the NHS that this House will have this year. We are considering the NHS’s legislative asks around the long-term plan and will respond in due course. We will, of course, be discussing the NHS regularly in debates and Questions.

However, for now, we have this short and straightforward Bill. It can be summed up in a single word: certainty. It offers certainty to the NHS, to its 1.4 million hard-working staff and to the country—that the NHS will have the level of funding it said it needs over the next four years to deliver the long-term plan.

We have an ambitious long-term plan that will allow us not only to meet the needs of today but to rise to the challenges of tomorrow. The key to that is delivering the investment that the NHS has said that it needs to deliver the plan. That is why I am proud to commend the Bill to the House, and I beg to move.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
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My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and welcome the opportunity to take part in this Second Reading debate. I declare my membership of the GMC, trusteeship of the Royal College of Ophthalmologists and presidency of GS1.

Extra funding for the NHS is always welcome. The Minister was confident that the Bill would give the NHS long-term certainty and all the money that it needs to implement the NHS plan—indeed, he said that it has been given all the money that it asked for. I just remind him that most people in the NHS understand and are clear that the amount of resources promised is nowhere near what is required. When he said that the NHS was satisfied that the money was sufficient he meant NHS England. I remind him that NHS England is a wholly owned quango accountable to him and his ministerial colleagues. The idea that it speaks for the NHS is taking quango-land fiction a little too far.

The Bill is certainly a departure—setting out the allocation to the NHS up to the 2023-24 financial year—but the suspicion is that it is little more than a political gimmick that is by no means sufficient for the needs of the NHS. There is no legal or government financial rule requirement for such legislation; it has never been done before. I am at a loss to understand why the Government have done it, because, as the Minister implied, it is quite clear that the Government will be forced during this four-year period to put more money in to shore up the deficits that will inevitably be run up by the NHS.

Our debate of two weeks ago on the performance of the NHS told its own story. Despite the heroic efforts of staff, 18.3% of people attending A&E in January spent more than four hours there from arrival to admission —the worst performance of any January since records began. The target on treatment within 18 weeks has not been met for at least four years. Other targets are missed consistently. We know that rationing is on the increase, and there are many other failings in ambulance services, mental health services and services for people with learning disabilities.

Clearly, many factors are at play in this, but when we align austerity with workforce shortages—the estimate is of a 100,000 FTE shortage at the moment—1.4 million people with an unmet social care need and a complete failure to factor in a growing elderly population, it is little wonder that the NHS is reeling under the pressure. The settlement of 3.4% growth per annum over a four-year period is certainly less than the 4% that most commentators have argued is needed—I actually think it needs more. I remind the Minister that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London—a former Chief Nursing Officer—said in our debate on the Queen’s Speech that the additional funding was not a bonanza and would serve only to stabilise NHS services and pay off deficits.

On deficits, NHS Providers trusts reported a combined deficit of £827 million and clinical commissioning groups a deficit of £150 million in the last financial year. The National Audit Office recently warned that trusts are becoming increasingly reliant on short-term measures, including one-off savings, to meet yearly financial targets. Clearly, many trusts in financial difficulty are increasingly relying on short-term loans from the Minister’s department, which, the NAO says in its recent report, are effectively being treated as income by these organisations, which have run up a level of unsustainable debt that reached £10.9 billion in March 2019. The NAO says that those trusts are very unlikely to meet any of that debt. Could the Minister say what is to happen to it?

The Bill is notable for what it does not include. The Minister acknowledged this. Little wonder that NHS leaders wrote to the Times at the beginning of this month, pointing out that the funding does not include areas crucial to the Government’s election promise of providing more nurses, hospitals and GP appointments. The NHS is facing a massive workforce crisis. The funding does not cover the education and training budget to help with recruitment and retention, nor does it offer any relief for public health and social care services that help keep people healthy and independent. The new migration policy announced this week, which excludes care workers as “lower-skilled”, simply adds more pressure to the social care system.

I have listened twice to the Home Office Minister’s response in your Lordships’ House. She blithely washes her hands of the problem, quoting the Migration Advisory Committee, which says that the care sector’s problem should be solved by the sector investing in making jobs in social care worth while. Have your Lordships ever heard such nonsense? How on earth, with the resources available, can the social care sector invest more in training and paying staff? At the end of this year, we will have an absolute crisis in the care sector unless, as I suspect, the Home Office is forced to reverse this ludicrous policy of excluding people coming to this country to help our care sector.

The Minister mentioned capital. The NHS was formed in 1948; 14% of its buildings are older than it is. He talked about the new hospitals. The backlog of maintenance is about £6.5 billion. The NAO produced a report that warned that the Government’s real story on capital is that in the past five years they have transferred £4.3 billion from capital to revenue to shore up the everyday finances of the NHS. The Minister is pinning his hopes on the NHS long-term plan to transform everything and make the NHS cope with the extra demand it faces. Excuse me for being a little cynical, but the NHS long-term plan is a reiteration of every plan that I have seen for the NHS in the last 30 years. It is based on the fiction that services produced outside hospitals will miraculously reduce the demand in those hospitals. Anyone who knows anything about the NHS knows that this is complete bunkum and that the Government have no chance whatever of getting anywhere near the targets that the plan produces. We will be carrying on the short-term funding crisis that we have seen over many years.

I am very glad to see the noble Lord, Lord Patel, in his place. One of the best reports on health in the last few years was that of his Select Committee on the Long-Term Sustainability of the NHS. It highlighted what he, and those working in the NHS and adult social care, described as a “culture of short-termism”, with the Minister’s department and front-line services absorbed by day-to-day struggles. Little has changed since then. I strongly support that committee’s recommendation on the establishment of an office for health and care sustainability to look at likely funding and workforce requirements up to 20 years ahead. Like the Office for Budget Responsibility, it would give authoritative advice to the public, Ministers and the NHS. Ministers would still set the budget, and answer to Parliament for it, but it would allow for a much longer-term workforce and financial plan for the NHS, taking account of the demographic pressures that we face over the next 30 years. Would it lead to more resources coming into health and social care? Nothing is certain, but it would set the context in which the country could come to a sensible decision about how much it will be prepared to pay for health and social care.

The Government’s decision to legislate with the Bill for the next four years is, on the face of it, to fund an unnecessary political gesture. Legislation clearly is not required and the Government will never be able to stick to these figures when the pressures come incessantly into the system. If, in time, it came to be a building block towards a long-term sustainable future, the Bill would be of no little significance. So far, there is precious little sign of that.

Baroness Tyler of Enfield Portrait Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)
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My Lords, I am pleased to contribute to this Second Reading debate, and—as it is my first opportunity to do so—I welcome the Minister to his new role. I look forward to working with him.

This Bill sets out the current long-term funding settlement for the NHS, as set out in the Long Term Plan published last year. While I welcome the fact that the Government have provided a long-term funding settlement to provide some of the certainty we have heard about, the key question is not whether legislation is needed—frankly, it is not necessary for the Government to commit themselves in primary legislation to something that is already well within their powers—but whether the funding allocation for NHS England increasing to £148.5 billion by 2024 is sufficient to meet a decade of NHS underfunding, to respond to an ageing population and to meet the plan’s commitments to raise standards in healthcare.

As alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and like many external commentators, I note that the King’s Fund, Nuffield Trust and Health Foundation have all said that an increase of at least 4% is required to modernise the NHS and improve standards. In big picture terms, the overriding concern about this Bill is that it does not apply to the whole healthcare budget. As has already been said, NHS England does not operate in isolation, and to improve the health of the population, it is essential that new funding is accompanied by equivalent and sustainable investment in public health, social care and capital funding. Failure to invest now will simply increase the strain on the NHS and store up problems for the future.

I will focus the rest of my remarks on mental health funding, which the Minister focused on in his introductory speech. It was a positive step forward that the long-term plan placed a considerably stronger focus on mental health services, with a commitment that funding for mental health services would grow at a faster rate than the overall NHS budget, increasing by at least £2.3 billion per year by 2024. That is an important figure, which I will come back to. For far too long, people with mental health problems have had to put up with second class services, with too many people struggling to access treatment and support. Decades of underfunding and neglect mean that services are too often delivered in sub-standard and sometimes dangerous facilities and buildings, and there are significant shortages in the mental health workforce.

With that as the overall context, I of course welcome the commitment that funding for mental health services will grow faster than the overall NHS budget and that funding for children’s services will increase faster than total mental health spending per se. However, we must not underestimate the challenge of ensuring that money earmarked for mental health services reaches the front line. This is the crux of the matter that I want to talk about. Although the additional funding for mental health is ring-fenced in the long-term plan, it is unclear how this will work in practice. We need much greater clarity from the Government about how they plan to guarantee that this money is spent on front-line mental health services. Frankly, it is impossible to gauge this from the data currently available. I will say a few more words about this.

During the Commons stages of the Bill, a cross-party group of MPs supported amendments to require the Secretary of State to report to Parliament every year on whether the money received by mental health services was taking us closer to achieving parity of esteem. These amendments were not accepted by the Government—sadly, from my perspective—and, as this is a money Bill, we are of course unable to table any amendments here.

I was particularly enthusiastic about the amendment tabled by my honourable friend Munira Wilson MP, which would have required the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament an annual report on spending on child and adolescent mental health services. In my view, this would have done a lot to strengthen much-needed transparency and accountability in this area. However, to try to remain positive, I noted in Hansard that the Minister replying, Edward Argar, expressed some sympathy with the sentiment behind the amendment and agreed to meet Munira Wilson and other colleagues to discuss further what could be done to improve the reporting on children’s mental health services. I look forward to hearing the outcome of that meeting and hope that the Minister in this House will make a commitment that he will report back to noble Lords on what happens in those discussions.

I want to explain briefly why I think that the CAMHS expenditure is so important. When you analyse it at a national level, it all looks pretty okay; it looks like it is going in the right direction. But this masks continued and really worrying inconsistencies in reporting by CCGs, which prevent parliamentarians and researchers being confident in the figures published at local level. For example, 34 CCGs reported spending less on services for children and young people combined, including on eating disorders services, in 2018-19 compared to the previous years, with nine of those areas having reported spending cuts of at least 27%. This is hardly in line with the public commitment to spend more in this area. I also find it baffling that CCGs which are reporting spending cuts in the dashboard are simultaneously getting a tick to say that they have met the mental health investment standard. I am really perplexed by how this is happening and, if the Minister can shed any light on this, I shall be really grateful.

Something that I have been calling for for some time now is a separate children and young people’s mental health investment standard with a dashboard, so that we can get a more detailed breakdown on the way money is being spent on services for children’s mental health, ranging from preventive to crisis care. In the same way that the mental health dashboard reports on whether each CCG has met the mental health investment standard, it should also report separately on whether each CCG has increased the proportion it is spending on children and young people’s mental health. In addition, if any CCG fails to increase the amount it spends, I really feel that it should provide a public explanation of the reason. Speaking personally, I would also like to see sanctions applied to CCGs which do not provide a satisfactory explanation.

There are a couple of other areas which I would like to cover briefly. One is the workforce. Mental health has one of the most serious workforce shortages in any part of the NHS, and securing and retaining the right workforce is probably the biggest barrier to delivering the Government’s commitments to improve mental health care. We know at the moment that, to meet the promises already made for mental health and to reduce vacancies and cover requirements, we need about 4,500 additional consultant psychiatrists for 2029.

Where are these people going to come from? The recent census by the Royal College of Psychiatrists showed that the rate of unfilled NHS consultant psychiatrist posts had doubled in the last six years and that one in 10 posts is vacant. Despite the shortage of doctors, our medical schools operate under a strict admissions cap, often turning away highly qualified and ambitious students. We need to double the number of medical school places by 2029 to train enough consultants to fill the roles already promised. I would like to see places allocated in particular to schools that have a plan in place to encourage students to choose psychiatry.

Substantial investment in expanding the workforce is urgently required and I eagerly await the publication of the NHS People Plan, which, I hope, will set out how the Government plan to address these shortages. It is vital that the Government use the opportunity of the forthcoming Budget to commit to additional investment to support the recruitment and training of mental health staff.

Finally, on capital funding—this has already been alluded to—the review of the Mental Health Act found that mental health facilities where patients are admitted are often the most out of date in the NHS estate. At times, they have more in common with prisons than hospitals. There are badly designed, dilapidated buildings with poor facilities, which all contribute to a sense of containment and make it difficult for patients to be effectively engaged in therapeutic activities. I was particularly taken with what the review said about how inappropriate it was that we still use dormitory provision in mental health wards for people who have been sectioned under the Mental Health Act. It just does not seem right at all.

The Minister alluded to the fact that the Government have taken some steps to address capital funding issues, including announcing plans to build 40 new hospitals through the health infrastructure plan. However, so far, mental health has been almost totally overlooked in these discussions, despite the review’s findings. Therefore, I again call on the Government to use the 2020 Budget to set out a major, multiyear capital investment programme to modernise the mental health estate and bring it into the 21st century.

To recap, the Government must do more to ensure that the additional funding in the Bill leads to sustained investment in mental health in every local area in England, to address the shortages in the workforce and to commit to much-needed capital investment.

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Portrait Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
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My Lords, I, too, congratulate the Minister on his new position and declare my interests as a past president of the BMA, a fellow of various medical royal colleges, and vice-president of Hospice UK and Marie Curie.

Yesterday, a letter went to the Prime Minister from the medical royal colleges and faculties and the Royal College of Midwives and the Royal College of Nursing, urging him to

“accept the recommendations of the report Health Equity in England: The Marmot Review 10 years on, and to go a little further.”

They announced that they

“are coming together to establish the Inequalities in Health Alliance”

and

“will be asking other organisations across the UK to join … particularly those representing social services and local authorities in all four nations.”

They went on to point out that

“The report published today by the Institute for Health Equity and commissioned by the Health Foundation, says life expectancy has stalled for the first time in at least 120 years. We are sure you know that there is a 15-20-year difference in healthy life expectancy between some of the new seats represented by the Conservatives, and others that your party has traditionally held. These disparities directly impact on NHS services, with emergency attendances doubling in the areas of lowest life expectancy.”

The letter goes on to say that it is essential that the

“government works with the devolved administrations”.

It points out that health is not in isolation and that

“earning a living wage is linked to healthy life expectancy”

and that

“Poverty has the most impact on infant and child health”

and therefore that needs to be focused on too.

The co-signatories to that letter—a full page of them—make the point clearly that looking at health in isolation is not adequate. Although we all welcome the funding that will be coming forward and the fact that it will go to the devolved nations, the problem is that it will be made on a population rather than a needs basis. The funding needs to be according to needs-based consequentials. Taking Wales as an example—I declare an interest as somebody who lives and works there—we have a population that is iller, older and poorer. It matches the north-east of England and is now reaping the disbenefit of all that happened prior to devolution, with the problems of poverty, industrial closure, and so on.

Wales, like the north-east of England, has been heavily impacted by welfare cuts. It now has protected combined spending on health and social care that is 11% higher than in England, working out at £3,051 per head of population, and there is a policy to protect social care. I urge the Minister and the Government to abandon the phrase that social care workers are “low skilled”. They are not; they are low-paid. They are very highly skilled. It is the skilled social care worker who will avoid a hospital admission and sound the alarm before a problem arises; and when it comes to people with mental health problems, learning difficulties and so, I defy anyone in this House to claim that they will be any better than a skilled care worker at managing a crisis in the community. It is very difficult work. However, there is no protected spend in the Bill for population health and, as the Minister has said, there is nothing on public health, but change will occur only through public health initiatives.

In Wales, we are tackling alcohol-related harms by bringing in minimum unit pricing on 1 March. I declare my role as chair of the Commission on Alcohol Harm. Minimum unit pricing is already in place in Scotland. We also have the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and are trying to reverse our heritage of really poor health and lack of health gains in our population. However, in Wales, as in other less wealthy parts of the UK, we have until now been quite dependent on Objective 1 funding and the European Social Fund, particularly for the third sector. That money needs to be replaced. I urge the Government to recognise that not only is there a requirement for needs-based funding but they have a duty to replace the funding that has now been lost.

As I have said, across England the royal colleges are calling for social care to immediately receive better—and, indeed, sustainable—funding. This will alleviate the pressures caused by delays in transfers to care. There is no reason why people should be discharged late in the day. There is a fair amount of evidence that if people are discharged from hospital in the morning with a care package in place, the result is a lower number of readmissions and better long-term outcomes. Other than the fact that the system is completely gummed up and log-jammed, there is certainly no excuse for discharging people to their homes in the evening or during the night without adequate care being in place. There has to be integration between the sectors at every level, with efficiency built in, and that requires a new financial settlement for social care and finding a long-term sustainable solution to providing care and support for people in England. That will probably be one of the greatest challenges for England, Wales and Scotland in the future.

Years of underfunding in social care have meant that thousands of older people have failed to receive adequate funding for their care. Delays in transfers to care will continue, resulting in the accumulating backlog arriving in A&E. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, has pointed out, the figures for A&E are worse than ever. That is through no fault of the A&E departments at all. In December, fewer than 80% of patients were admitted, transferred or discharged within four hours. This was a record-breaking monthly low and the 53rd consecutive month that the 95% target was not met. As well as 200,000 more people waiting more than four hours to be admitted this winter compared with the same point last winter, there were nearly 200,000 waiting more than four hours in trolley beds in corridors this winter, 56,000 more than this time last year. The number of trolley waits is almost six times more than last winter. These figures alone demonstrate the logjam that exists across the whole system.

Will the Minister, having announced that this is not a ceiling, confirm that the money to go for training and workforce, the money to go specifically to public health, and other funding will continue to be distributed as well to the devolved nations? As well as it being calculated on a population basis and the old Barnett formula, there should be a needs assessment, taking into account the sophisticated data that is now available from the Marmot review and similar reviews, so that the spending is actually targeted at the areas of greatest need.

Baroness Penn Portrait Baroness Penn (Con)
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My Lords, I declare an interest as vice-chair of the Specialised Healthcare Alliance, and shall endeavour to keep my remarks—like the Bill—brief. Having been part of the process that negotiated the funding that we are legislating for today, I felt compelled to speak. It took many months to reach agreement on what was to become the longest and largest funding increase in the NHS’s history, so I wholeheartedly welcome the contents of the Bill.

I would, however, like to make two points. First, as has been said in the Chamber today and as was acknowledged at the time, the job was not finished. Understandably, perhaps, the Treasury felt considerable consternation at announcing such a large fiscal commitment outside of a formal fiscal event. Therefore, a number of items were left on the to-do list for a later date: capital; education and training budgets; public health delivery; and social care funding and reform.

The Minister said that it might be premature to include those in this Bill, but I say to him gently that we have had several formal fiscal events since this spending was announced over 18 months ago. There have been welcome steps in these areas, but ultimately they remain unresolved. I will not ask the Minister to preview what is in next month’s Budget or the spending review later this year but I hope that the Government will use them as an opportunity to provide for long-term, multiyear commitments in these outstanding areas. If they do not, we will continue to face situations such as with the public health grant allocation, where providers do not know their financial position, with just over a month to go before the start of the financial year. Can the Minister tell the House when the allocations for that grant will be confirmed? Only if we invest in prevention, capital and workforce on a long-term basis will we create the capacity in the system for the extra money in this Bill to actually improve services and outcomes for patients.

The second area I wanted to touch on is mental health. During the discussions about the funding settlement provided for in the Bill, I had a specific aim: to ensure that the money and the long-term plan that accompanied it reflected in a meaningful way the priority the Government gave to improving mental health services. Too often the refrain on mental health was that, while all the work across different government departments and across society, from tackling stigma to improving workplaces and schools, was welcome, it would not shift the dial while mental health services were underfunded and overpressured.

I do not pretend that the funding we are voting on today solves that problem, but there were two important steps in the right direction, as has already been noted: first, that mental health funding would increase as a proportion of overall health funding in each and every year, and secondly, and importantly, that this commitment would be traceable and auditable. Alongside that funding, though, the Government committed to reform and in particular to updating the Mental Health Act, which dates back to 1983. Although I support the Bill, it is also, as the House of Lords Library politely puts it,

“an example of the Government committing in primary legislation to an action which is already within its power.”

In contrast, there are few areas of legislation that so directly impact the lives of individuals as the Mental Health Act, and it is overdue for reform. I therefore hope the Minister is able to reassure me that the time spent on this Bill has not been at the expense of producing the White Paper and drafting the legislation needed to implement the recommendations in Sir Simon Wessely’s excellent review of the Mental Health Act.

I was pleased to receive a Written Answer from the former Minister. I took heart that the White Paper would be published not merely “in due course” but in the next few months, although I am not sure where that sits in the hierarchy of government timings compared with “shortly”. If I am able to tempt the Minister to go even further today and specify a month by which we can expect that White Paper to appear, my support for the Bill will be even more fulsome than it already is.

Lord Kakkar Portrait Lord Kakkar (CB)
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My Lords, I join in congratulating the Minister on the way in which he has introduced this Second Reading. Clearly it is to be welcomed that there is clarity on the financial settlement attending the delivery of the NHS in England over the years remaining in this Parliament. I declare my interest as chairman of UCLPartners and chairman of the King’s Fund.

This is not the first time that a Government have committed substantial additional funding for the delivery of the NHS. On previous occasions when these commitments have been made, the regrettable fact has been that the performance associated with the additional funding has been uneven. This demonstrates that additional funding in itself is not the absolute answer to all the issues that face the long-term sustainability of the NHS.

Clearly, additional funding is critical; as we have already heard in this debate, the funding that has currently been guaranteed will play an important role in ensuring the medium-term sustainability of the delivery of important services. However, the reality is that one must be certain that the environment—the structural solution for the NHS to which this additional funding is going to be delivered—is entirely appropriate. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, has identified that the long-term plan in itself identifies a number of opportunities by which sustainability for the NHS can be achieved.

Much of the long-term plan is predicated on the concept that integrated care is now essential if the delivery of health services is to be sustainable. The NHS long-term plan identifies three important integrations: between primary and secondary care; between physical and mental healthcare; and between healthcare and social care. In providing the long-term plan, the NHS has also made suggestions with regard to legislative change that might be required to ensure that the disposition of the additional funding, and indeed the delivery of the plan itself, is going to be improved. I know the Government have received those legislative suggestions, but they have yet to respond to them. In opening the debate, the Minister made reference to that and to the fact that further legislation may come before your Lordships’ House in due course in this Parliament to deal with those questions.

One important suggestion is of course a merger of NHS England and NHS Improvement. I wonder whether Her Majesty’s Government have found themselves in a position to take a view on that matter. Clearly it is at the heart of whether the system for the delivery of healthcare is as effectively constructed as it needs to be to ensure that this vital additional funding is applied in the most effective and efficient fashion.

Additionally, suggestions have been made that commissioners and providers may come together in joint decision-making committees such that, at a local level, the disposition of this additional funding is applied in such a way that the integration of services is achieved effectively and that this funding provides maximum benefit, both in individual patient care and the management of local populations. Do Her Majesty’s Government believe that joint decision-making committees, created on a voluntary basis, will have sufficient influence and power at a local level to drive forward the appropriate integration of services such that the delivery of care achieves the benefits that we very much hope will be available to patients and to local populations?

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, made another very important observation earlier, which relates to the report on the long-term sustainability of health and social care from your Lordships’ ad hoc committee chaired by my noble friend Lord Patel. It is a very important observation that this Bill, which is laying out in statute guaranteed funding for the NHS over multiple years for the first time, could form the basis—the foundation—for a first step towards that broader, long-term sustainability for the NHS. Your Lordships’ committee report made a number of important recommendations. Some of those have already been adopted by Her Majesty’s Government in a number of different ways, so clearly that report has had impact and is influential in the debate with regard to the long-term sustainability of the NHS. It should be taken as a very important observation that the presentation to this Parliament of this Bill in itself is important but could provide for a longer-term approach to the sustainability of the NHS, dealing not only with financial questions, as this Bill does, but with the important structural issues that will need to be addressed if repeated increases in funding can be applied in the most effective fashion to achieve the goals and objectives that we all strongly support.

Lord Bradley Portrait Lord Bradley (Lab)
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My Lords, I begin by declaring my health interests as given in the register. I would like to contribute to this Second Reading debate by discussing NHS funding and by raising, in particular, the crucial issue of mental health and other complex needs funding, which the Minister and other noble Lords have recognised.

During the debate on the Queen’s Speech, I suggested that, as well as enshrining

“in law the National Health Service’s multiyear funding settlement”,

it would

“also be appropriate to enshrine in law the commitment to achieve parity of esteem and equality of access between mental health and physical health expenditure over the same funding period, rather than merely retaining it as an aspiration in the NHS mandate”.—[Official Report, 9/1/20; col. 384.]

Clearly, this suggestion found no favour with the Government, but it is worth making the case again today for significant additional investment in mental health and related needs.

Let us consider some of the reasons why this is so important—for example, children and adolescent mental health services, or CAMHS. Currently, on average, children and young people visit their GP three times before they get a referral for a specialist assessment, and then have to wait more than six months for treatment to start. Children are reaching crisis point before getting the support they need, and the number of children attending accident and emergency departments because of their mental health, in a situation of crisis, is increasing year on year. Similarly, suicidal children as young as 12 are having to wait more than two weeks for beds in mental health units to start their treatment, despite the risk to their own lives.

As Justin Madders MP, our health spokesperson in the other place, identified in the Commons debate on this Bill, three out of four children with mental health conditions do not get the support they need. Over 130,000 referrals to specialist services are turned down because, as demand increases, thresholds for access to care rise. Appallingly, 400,000 children and young people with mental health conditions are not receiving any professional help at all. We know that mental health conditions in adults often begin in childhood, so the failure to adequately invest in CAMHS will end up costing the NHS far more in the long run.

We know that mental health represents about 23% of the total disease burden on the NHS, but a mere 11% of the NHS budget is spent on mental health; and only 15% of that 11% is spent on child and adolescent services. It is clearly welcome that the NHS long-term plan made a specific commitment to add a further £2.3 billion to the mental health budget by 2023-24, but as the Institute for Public Policy Research has pointed out, to achieve parity of esteem for mental health services, funding for those services needs to grow by 5.5% on average over the next decade. The NHS planned to spend £12.2 billion on mental health funding in 2019, but the IPPR estimates that this needs to reach £16.1 billion in 2023-24 and £23.9 billion in 2030-31. So, what is the Minister’s view on this apparent huge shortfall in investment in the mental health budget?

Of course, not all mental health and related services are funded by the NHS. As the Centre for Mental Health has noted, significant elements of mental health support for people of all ages come from outside the NHS, predominantly through local government. The largest part of this derives from adult social care, but there are important contributions from public health—for example, drug and alcohol services, suicide prevention and smoking cessation programmes. While it is accepted that NHS funding is projected to rise over the next five years, social care has only one year’s funding agreed to date, and public health services are yet to receive information on next year’s public health grant. This will clearly exacerbate the severe problems in a wide range of support services for people with many complex needs. Do the Government recognise the fragility of this situation and will they announce a robust funding settlement for social care in the Budget in two weeks’ time?

This fragility is further evidenced by the state of the workforce, as we have heard. There were a staggering 8,000 mental health nursing vacancies in England in the third quarter of 2018-19, with vacancies continuing to rise. One in 10 consultant psychiatric posts is vacant, as we have heard, rising to a dreadful one in six in child and adolescent mental health services, according to the Royal College of Psychiatrists. These figures underline the huge challenge to recruit the nurses to meet the massive needs and demands of the service. I welcome the decision to offer maintenance grants to people in nurse training from September. This will help to attract applicants, but universities such as Salford, where I am pro-chancellor, and NHS employers will still struggle to recruit, train and, crucially, retain the large numbers of additional mental health staff required over the next five years, especially, as we have heard, after the end of the transition period following exit from the European Union. The Prime Minister has committed to recruiting 50,000 more nurses across the NHS, so can the Minister confirm today how many of those will be specifically for mental health and related services?

I have two further points. The first is about speech and language therapy. From my work with the development and rollout of liaison and diversion services, and given that core services now cover 100% of the country, I recognise the value of speech and language therapists. I certainly hope that, with the additional NHS investment, they will form a key part of the further enhancement of liaison and diversion services. More generally, as the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists has made clear, it is hoped that, alongside reform proposals in the NHS long-term plan, this Bill will help to ensure the provision of adequate services for people with communication difficulties and swallowing needs. As it points out, there are many such people in the United Kingdom. In fact, 20% of the adult population experience communication difficulties at some point in their lives, and more than 10% of children and young people have long-term communication needs.

In areas of social disadvantage, around 50% of children start school with delayed language and other identified communication needs. People with a range of conditions will also have swallowing needs. These include people who have had a stroke and those who live with various cancers or neurological conditions, such as dementia, Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis and motor neurone disease, as well as those with learning disabilities and mental health problems. It is clear that speech and language therapists play a crucial role in supporting these people, their families, friends and carers, and the other professionals who work alongside them. It is therefore essential that the appropriate level of speech and language therapy be commissioned out of the extra funding in this Bill, so that those people’s needs are identified and met.

Finally, on capital funding, as we have heard, this Bill enshrines in law only revenue funding, but huge amounts of capital are required to address such major problems as maintenance and repair backlogs in the NHS estate and replacement of out-of-date equipment. The Government have committed to 40 new hospitals but amazingly, only six of these have been given the green light to proceed. One of the remaining 34 schemes —which I understand is “oven ready”—is North Manchester General Hospital, now part of the Manchester NHS hospital trust, in whose area I live. This hospital rebuild is desperately needed to meet the huge healthcare needs of the population of that area. When the Minister responds, will he tell me exactly when this hospital development will finally be given the green light to proceed as the seventh of the Government’s 40 committed schemes? Will he also give me the assurance I seek that the investment identified in this Bill will genuinely lead to parity of esteem and equality of access for some of the most vulnerable people in the country, who are suffering mental health conditions or have other serious complex needs?

Lord Low of Dalston Portrait Lord Low of Dalston (CB)
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My Lords, the Bill commits the Government to increase funding for the NHS by £33.9 billion in cash terms by 2023-24, with NHS England spending increasing to £148.5 billion by 2024. This is the first time that a multiyear funding settlement for the NHS has been enshrined in law. It also provides a long-term settlement to underpin the commitments set out in the NHS Long Term Plan. This is an important element of the Government’s programme and should clearly be supported. But, while the additional funding for the NHS is to be welcomed, this will be adequate only if social care is also properly funded. If funding for social care is inadequate, knock-on effects impacting on the health service will be felt. Indeed, the NHS Long Term Plan clearly states that

“the wellbeing of older people and the pressures on the NHS are … linked to how well social care is functioning.”

When agreeing the NHS funding settlement, the Government therefore committed to ensuring that adult social care funding is such that it does not impose additional pressure on the NHS over the next five years. While the additional £1.5 billion promised for social care in the recent spending round for 2020-21 is welcome, this is the minimum needed to keep the adult social care system afloat this year. Indeed, it is questionable whether it is even that. Not all this funding is guaranteed for adult social care. Local authority funding has not kept pace with demographic pressures. Indeed, cuts in local authority funding have been a principal focus for cuts in public expenditure.

Looking ahead, there is a large funding gap to be bridged if the system is to be improved on a sustainable basis. Only last year, the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee estimated that improving care quality and addressing unmet need alone would require an additional £8.1 billion in 2020-21. Without specific commitments to fixing the crisis in social care, spending on the NHS will be severely undermined. There is thus strong support for an amendment to the Bill requiring the Secretary of State to report annually on whether the allocation to adult social care is enough to avoid negative impacts on the NHS. As it is, following a decade of underfunding, the commitment in the Bill falls short of what is needed to respond to an ageing population and drive NHS standards up. The increase is 3.3%, despite the King’s Fund, the Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation all stating that an increase of at least 4% is required to modernise the NHS and improve standards.

Age UK has two key concerns regarding the Bill. The first is that it does not apply to the whole of the healthcare budget. NHS England does not operate in isolation, and to improve the health of the population it is essential that new funding is accompanied by equivalent and sustainable investment in public health, social care and capital. Failing to invest now will increase the strain on the NHS and store up problems for the future. The second concern is that unless robust commitments are made to investment in the workforce, the funding provided in the Bill will be similarly undermined.

When it comes to improving population health, prevention is better than cure. Analysis by the Centre for Health Economics has found that spending on the public health grant is up to four times more cost effective than spending on the NHS. By investing in preventive services, it is possible to decrease the incidence of many common conditions that affect people in later life and reduce the burden on the NHS. The broken social care system harms everyone, not just those with an unmet need for social care. Delayed discharges from hospital due to a lack of social care costs our NHS an eye-watering £500 every minute. To help the NHS, the Government must secure the immediate future of care by investing to shore up the broken system and by setting out a long-term, sustainable solution.

Despite the importance of prevention, public health grant funding for prevention services from this April has not yet been announced. This means that providers are unable to plan, and some are even having to put staff on notice of redundancy as they are unsure whether contracts will be renewed. This uncertainty comes on top of historical funding cuts. Funding to local authorities for the public health grant has been cut by £700 million in real terms between 2015-16 and 2019-20, putting essential services for older people at risk. Areas with the greatest need have been worst hit, as was confirmed by Sir Michael Marmot just yesterday. Cuts to the public health grant have been six times larger in the poorest areas than in the wealthiest. Meanwhile, the 10 most deprived areas have shouldered 15% of the reductions to the public health grant. These cuts risk exacerbating the difference in healthy life expectancy between people living in the most affluent and those living in the most deprived areas, which already stands at 19 years. They also place the Government’s grand challenge on healthy ageing, which aims to improve healthy life expectancy by five years and reduce health inequalities, at significant risk.

If we want to improve public health, investment in the NHS alone is not sufficient. The Government must provide sustainable funding to the public health grant and develop a comprehensive strategy that lays out how it will improve public health for older people. It will additionally not be possible to fulfil the commitments laid out in the NHS Long Term Plan or make the most of the new funding provided by the Bill without urgent investment in the workforce. One in 11 vacancies in the NHS is currently unfilled. Last year, £5.5 billion was spent on temporary staff to cover vacancies and other short-term absences. If current trends continue, there will be a shortfall of 250,000 staff in the NHS by 2030.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough Portrait Lord Willis of Knaresborough (LD)
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My Lords, I shall start my brief contribution on a positive note about the Bill. It is the first time for a considerable number of years that we have a Government who recognise that the NHS requires both additional and stable funding. That is something that the whole House should welcome.

However, the Bill is designed mainly for a political audience. It is certainly not the comprehensive framework for funding a world-class, integrated, 21st-century healthcare system that many across the Chamber would have liked to see. If it had been, it would have reflected the House of Lords report, The Long-term Sustainability of the NHS and Adult Social Care which has been mentioned on a number of occasions; four of us in the Chamber were members of the superb committee of the noble Lord, Lord Patel. Its report was a fundamental look at the way in which we should look for an integrated system, rather than try to find little ad hoc solutions.

The NHS does not, as the Bill implies, operate in a silo but is impacted by other interdependent factors, as many Peers have said. Capital adult social care costs, the challenge of educating and training a workforce and the application of ground-breaking technologies are just a number of the factors that determine health outcomes but do not feature in the Bill. As the Secretary of State and the Minister rightly said, this is only a floor, not a ceiling. They have also said that other proposals are afoot to deal with some of those issues, and we await with interest their arrival. However, having listened to a number of desperate pleas—and they are desperate pleas—about the future of mental health services, I will caution the House. Simply believing that we can add X number of mental health nurses, psychiatrists or consultants just like that is absolute nonsense. We need a totally different, radical approach to how we staff our health and care services.

I digress slightly, but 18 months ago I did a report for Health Education England on the mental health workforce in the future, 10 years ahead. I looked in particular at psychiatrists and psychologists and found that our universities are producing about 150,000 graduates a year with a psychology qualification. We produce 1,500 people with a psychology PhD, and about 3% of them go into the health service—yet we have spent all that money training them. When we ask, “Why don’t you—?”, the response is, “I’m sorry, that’s a different department. We can’t do that.” If the Minister takes nothing else from my speech, I urge him to think outside the box on this.

My main purpose in speaking in this debate is to raise an issue that has not been raised by others: medical research in the NHS, which is absolutely fundamental to 21st-century healthcare. I accept that Governments of all persuasions, from the Labour Government in 2006 and the Cooksey report right through to the current Government, have increasingly spent resources on health research. I declare interests as the chair of the Yorkshire and Humber Applied Research Collaboration and of the national Genomics Education Programme, and acknowledge my recent chairmanship of the Association of Medical Research Charities.

This Bill, with its provisions for stable, long-term funding increases, is an opportune moment for us to look at the potential of embedding research into the very fabric of the NHS, as intended by the Health and Social Care Act 2012. The amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Patel, said research should be a fundamental element of all activities in the NHS, yet that seems to have gone by the way.

I am delighted that we are getting a commitment of £33.9 billion a year by 2024. Whether it needs to be in legislation is doubtful, but I like that commitment. However, it goes nowhere to meeting the Government’s own contribution—pledged under Prime Minister May —to the long-term plan. The long-term plan committed to playing its full part in helping patients and the UK economy realise the benefits of research, as laid out in the Government’s Life Sciences Industrial Strategy. It also committed to incorporating key actions from the life sciences sector deals to make research and innovation one of the central drivers for progressing care quality and outcomes. Improving health outcomes for patients and the public will not be realised without further research and innovation. The pipeline of innovation is dependent on research taking place upstream as well as at the bedside.

Recognising the potential of research to lead to earlier diagnoses, more effective treatments and faster recoveries, the long-term plan—for all its faults, and I accept the very strident comment from the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that every Government over the last 40 or 50 years have contributed to this—made a range of specific commitments: for example, to increase public participation in research and to sequence the genomes of 500,000 individuals by 2024. The latter offers particular hope for those with rare genetic conditions and opens a door to individualised, personalised medicine.

By embedding research, trusts can make even more progress in improving patient care and outcomes by implementing interventions that research has shown to be effective and decommissioning those that have proven ineffective. Taking out those things that do not work is an equally effective way of not only delivering high-quality care but tailoring it specifically to patient needs.

Patients and the public tell us that they want opportunities to be involved in research. Some 77% of those involved in Wellcome’s public attitudes survey last year said that they wanted their medical records to be used for medical research. Studies also suggest that engagement in research improves the job satisfaction of healthcare professionals, which in turn boosts morale, helps reduce burnout, improves retention and has direct implications on the heavy financial pressures on many hospital trusts.

By research, I do not necessarily mean pointy-headed people in white coats. Research is now conducted by midwives, nurses, pharmacists, primary care and public health practitioners, medical associate professionals, allied health professionals and others. In the nursing standards, which we completed only 18 months ago, it is now a requirement for student nurses to be involved in research methods as part of their undergraduate training. The people who work with patients on a day-to-day basis, by their bedside, are the best people to spot things that need improvement.

For research to take place, sustainability of funding is required. Industry and charities are willing to contribute—and do so—but it requires the taxpayer to take the lead, and this is not always the case at present. This gives me an opportunity to commend to the House the work of the charitable sector, in particular AMRC, its umbrella champion chaired by my noble friend Lord Sharkey. In 2017-18, AMRC members, which include the Wellcome Trust, the British Heart Foundation and other major charities, contributed £1.4 billion to medical research in the UK. Some 31% of non-commercial research in the NHS—more than is contributed by the Medical Research Council or the NIHR—comes from the charitable sector. In the same year, charities recruited over 200,000 people into more than 1,300 clinical studies.

The prize for translating research into patient outcomes is huge. Today, the UK is regarded as world leading in translating research dollars into health outcomes, and this must be supported and mainstreamed. The opportunity that health research brings to lower costs and to produce satisfaction for professionals working in the service and better patient outcomes is clearly a no-brainer and ought to be part and parcel of this settlement, so we are not left waiting for some fictional figure which might arrive down the road.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner (CB)
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My Lords, I found this Bill slightly bizarre. I have been around government for about 50 years and I have never seen a Government come to Parliament and ask it to direct two government departments to lay particular estimates four financial years ahead. That is a rather unusual practice, so I start from the same position of incredulity as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. We ex-Health Ministers tend to be a sceptical set of fellows.

The figures in the Bill have a spurious precision, given that they are based on a cash figure for 2024 that was agreed with NHS England only—nobody else—in the autumn of 2018. I will come back to the issue of inflation-proofing.

There are many legitimate questions that we ought to be able to ask as part of scrutinising this unusual Bill—questions of interest to patients, taxpayers and the NHS itself. But I am told by the clerks that, because the Speaker of the Commons has labelled this a money Bill, we cannot do this through amendments at Committee or other stages. All we can today is pose some questions drawing on the excellent briefing provided by the BMA, NHS Providers, Mind and others. I also support the gentle chiding of the Minister by the noble Baroness, Lady Penn. I hope that does not get her into trouble with her Front Bench.

First, the sums set out in the Bill are 2018 cash figures with no provision for inflation-proofing. Do the Government really think there will be no inflation over the next four years, or will our old friend “improved efficiency” be brought in at some point to balance the books? Perhaps the Minister could explain why the Bill includes no provision for inflation-proofing the cash figures?

Secondly, as the Minister acknowledged, the figures make no provision for capital expenditure. Where is the money for the Prime Minister’s 40 new hospitals or the 20 hospital upgrades promised last summer? When will the NHS capital budgets for these four years be made public? Why are they not set out in the Bill? Why are there no figures at all on capital in the Bill, or is there really no agreed capital budget for the NHS 10-year plan? In my experience, new hospitals usually have additional revenue costs, so can the Minister say whether the revenue figures in this Bill cover the extra revenue that will arise from the capital programmes for new and upgraded hospitals?

Thirdly, the Government’s immediate two predecessors had a poor track record on protecting capital expenditure, as the National Audit Office has pointed out. Between 2014-15 and 2018-19, £4.3 billion was transferred from the capital budget to revenue with the result that there is now a maintenance backlog of £6.5 billion. Will the Minister clarify whether the maintenance backlog, in whole or in part, is to be funded from the revenue figures in the Bill?

Fourthly, what is to happen to the so-called short-term loans that the department has made to NHS trusts in financial difficulty? The NAO has said that such loans stood at £10.9 billion at March 2019. If they had to pay back the loans, some of the trusts would be insolvent. Will trusts with loans be required to pay them back, in whole or in part, from the revenue funds in the Bill, or will the Government write off the loans or reschedule them over a longer period than that covered by the Bill? Will new loans be available to trusts which get into financial difficulty during the period covered by the Bill?

Fifthly, as the Minister acknowledged and others have mentioned, there is no provision in the Bill’s figures for public health—an area that has consistently had its funding cut over the past decade. Michael Marmot has repeatedly shown that austerity has halted rising longevity and that health inequalities have increased over the past decade in deprived areas, especially among women. When will we know the matching revenue figures for public health and whether they can be agreed on a multiyear basis?

Sixthly—there are not many more—can we be confident that a lot of this new NHS revenue money will not be spent on keeping elderly people unnecessarily longer in expensive acute hospitals because of a decade’s, and continuing, scandalous neglect of adult social care services by a succession of Governments? Over the period covered by this Bill, we know from work done by the Institute for Fiscal Studies that, on present plans, there is likely to be a real-terms gap in adult social care funding compared with service levels in 2010 of about £8 billion. Will the Government plug this historic gap alongside any new funding system for adult social care? If they do not, the NHS will continue to pick up some of the tab for underfunded social care from the extra revenue funding in this Bill. If the Minister cannot answer my questions today, I should be grateful if he wrote to me, because it would save me putting down Parliamentary Questions.

This Bill has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese, but I will resist the temptation to identify more. However, I want to ensure that there is government and NHS accountability for showing the spending increases for areas of service that have historically been neglected. I describe these as Cinderella services, such as mental health, community health, public health and children’s services. I would have liked to move amendments requiring Ministers to report to Parliament every six months on the spending and staffing progress in these historically neglected areas. Alas, that is not possible, but how will Parliament be kept informed of progress in these neglected areas? If we do not tackle them better than we have in the past, the NHS long-term plan simply will fail.

Finally, I want to raise the issue of whether the funding in this Bill will deliver the first part of the 10-year plan. In my time as a Health Minister, between 2003 and 2007, we were increasing NHS revenue spending by at least 6% a year to make good the historical neglect of the NHS in the 1990s. That rate of increase was pretty generous and could not be sustained, but if you neglect institutions such as the NHS for a long period and do not make good their historical neglect with a spurt of generosity, you will fail to put them back on an even keel. The figures in this Bill provide cash increases of little over 3% a year after a decade of neglect. This is almost certainly not enough to repair the damage and deliver the NHS sustainability set out in The Long-term Sustainability of the NHS and Adult Social Care, which others have mentioned, the report by a Select Committee of this House of which I was proud to be a member.

I fear that the Government are deluding themselves, the public and the NHS if they think that the funding proposed in this Bill is anything like adequate to fix the damage done to the NHS over the past decade.

Lord Young of Norwood Green Portrait Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)
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My Lords, I was going to welcome the long-term funding, but now that my noble friends have suggested I should be cynical, sceptical or chiding, perhaps I will tone down that enthusiasm. Nevertheless, I want to comment on the commitment to build 40 new hospitals. I hope that, regarding the procurement contract, the Minister can assure us that we have learned lessons from the Carillion failure. If not, there could be more disasters in the making.

The Library briefing document states that Mr Hancock stressed that the sums in the Bill were

“the minimum levels of funding, but actual spending could be more: he said they would ‘set a floor, but not a ceiling.’ He then listed some of the services which would be provided with the additional funds”.

I noted the reference to “more GP appointments” and thought that was to be welcomed, but the challenge, as a number of noble Lords have said, is whether we can recruit and train the new doctors and retain the doctors we have. The early retirements are a worrying indicator.

I welcome the Minister’s point about restoring the nurses training bursary. One might question why we took it away in the first place, given the huge number of vacancies, and what I regard as the shame of continually having to poach both nurses and doctors from overseas countries that badly need them too.

In talking about building new hospitals, perhaps the Minister can say something about the state of many GP surgeries, which require investment. If they do not get it, they cannot provide the additional service needed, which puts further strain on A&E. In a previous debate, I cited the problem my own local practice had. Here, I should declare an interest as a member of the patient care committee. New hospitals have to be staffed, as do existing ones. The figures have been quoted; I do not want to go over them again. However, I do want to refer—unsurprisingly, as an apprenticeship ambassador—to a couple of briefings I have received. One is from Unison, which quotes some interesting stats. It did a survey and 54% of trusts found that 80% of the money paid into the apprenticeship levy

“was unspent as at May 2019. For these trusts alone, that amounted to £200 million of unspent funds.”

Those funds are starting to expire and if they are not spent in the two-year period, they go back into the system—to the Treasury, at worst—or they may be invested in other apprenticeship levies. It is worrying because of the huge number of vacancies in the NHS, and because the Government have said that 5,000 of the 50,000 more nurses they promised by 2023-24 will come from degree apprenticeships.

I suggest to the Minister—I do not wish to convey only bad news—that there is an example of good practice. A briefing from NHS England described an interesting collaborative approach, involving three trusts in the Gloucestershire area, to recruiting and procuring assistant practitioner apprenticeships. They had different requirements—people for mental health care, for acute care and for community care; all vitally important. By working collaboratively, they have made significant use of the apprenticeship levy. My plea to the Minister is that he should try to spread best practice. That will be a continuing theme of my contribution today.

The Library briefing mentioned an issue which the Secretary of State has committed to and which has already been referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Willis: investments in innovative technology. The NHS’s record in introducing new technology is not good. As I have mentioned in a previous debate, when I spoke to a registrar in an A&E department, he protested that he still cannot electronically transfer patient notes from one hospital to another. One starts to despair—we are talking about much more advanced innovative practice, but we still have not mastered some of the basics. So there are some easy hits in that regard.

I concur with my noble friend Lord Bradley on the issue of children’s mental health. I should declare a personal interest—I have a granddaughter who needs a lot of care. Her family have had to wait a long time to get anything at all, which has had an impact on them. It is not just about the huge impact the child, their education and future; it is the family who must struggle with the repercussions. This underlines the importance of spending on mental health, which a number of noble Lords have referred to.

My next point was covered by the noble Lord, Lord Warner. We might argue with the noble Baroness, Lady Penn, about who has spent most. That the previous Labour Government did spend a huge amount of money is a legitimate point to make. We reduced waiting lists and made some significant improvements. I do not want to carp about it, except to say that one thing everyone in your Lordships’ House can agree on is that, when we are spending these large sums of money, we want to get the best bang for our buck, to use that cliché.

I was really interested in a comment made, I think, by the noble Lord, Lord Willis. I had never thought about the role of all NHS staff in providing research. He made a really interesting point. There is a lot of knowledge, experience and good practice out there, which needs to be considered if you are going to spend these significant sums of money. Can the Minister say how the Government are going to spread best practice? Have they adopted this as a necessary strategy? I wish them well, because the view that we need this to succeed for the future of the National Health Service crosses all boundaries in this House.

Baroness Hollins Portrait Baroness Hollins (CB)
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My Lords, I remind the House of my presidency of the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, and my other interests in the register. The Royal College of Occupational Therapists and several other charities have published the Community Rehabilitation: Live Well for Longer report and are calling for improved community rehabilitation for everyone who needs it. I was therefore very pleased that the Minister spoke of the Government’s commitment to treat people in the right place at the right time, with investment being made in integrated care locally. This is essential to improve rehabilitation for both physical and mental health long-term conditions and to avoid unnecessary admissions.

One area of the NHS funding settlement that has been widely welcomed is the commitment to increase overall spending on mental health by at least £2.3 billion by 2023-24. I will focus my remarks on this area. This is backed up by a commitment that every local clinical commissioning group will increase the amount it spends on mental health every year. As a psychiatrist, of course I welcome this increase in spending on mental health. However, as a specialist in learning disability, I am concerned that there seems to be no similar commitment to increase funding for helping this group of patients or for research in this area.

The Government announced that they spent £12.5 billion on combined mental health, dementia and learning disability services in England in 2018-19. However, the commitment to increase year-on-year spend seems to apply only to mental health. Could the Minister clarify this? In fact, it is impossible to know how much local areas are spending on dementia and learning disability because they publish only combined figures. I would welcome some guidance on the action being taken to ensure investment in learning disability and dementia. We cannot see the breakdown, but we know that NHS England has access to more detailed figures. Every CCG is audited by NHS England to make sure it has met the mental health investment standard—the rule that says that each CCG must increase how much it spends on mental health every year. Here is the conundrum.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists provided a helpful briefing for this Second Reading and highlighted that all 195 CCGs were confirmed as having met the mental health investment standard. That sounds really good, but is it not then rather confusing to learn that, last year, 32 CCGs—16.4% of the total number—reported that they had reduced how much they spent on combined mental health, learning disability and dementia services? I emphasise that every one was told that it had met the mental health investment standard. It appears that they must have achieved this by significantly cutting how much they spent on learning disability and dementia. Could the Minister confirm whether this is the case, or whether there is any other reason for a cut in overall spending?

The long-term plan commits the NHS to increasing investment in intensive, crisis and forensic community support for people with a learning disability and to take action to tackle the causes of morbidity and preventable deaths in people with a learning disability and autistic people. I declare my chairmanship of the oversight panel to review the care of people in this group, who are being detained in segregation under the Mental Health Act, often because of a lack of integrated community services.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists has called on the Government to require every CCG to publish a detailed breakdown of how much it spends on each of mental health, learning disability and dementia services so that the public can have a better understanding of what is happening. Will the Minister agree to look into to this? I particularly appreciated the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Willis, about the number of psychology graduates and simply comment that much more could and must be done to enable these graduates to get the further training they need to be able to work in healthcare.

Baroness Brinton Portrait Baroness Brinton (LD)
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My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood—the predecessor of the noble Lord, Lord Bethell—and the honourable Edward Argar for the helpful meeting we had just before Recess to discuss the Bill. I also extend my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood, for her services as Health Minister to this House. She will be sorely missed. I congratulate the noble Lord on continuing in this role.

I echo the thanks that other noble Lords have expressed to all the organisations which have sent us excellent briefings. Given that this is a Bill of one and a half pages, we have received probably a few telephone directories’—if they still existed—worth of briefings. It has been fascinating to hear the debate in your Lordships’ House today and to hear the same themes again and again from all sides of the House.

The Liberal Democrats will not oppose the Bill, although, we believe that, along with many others, it is not the panacea to health and social care that both the Prime Minister and Matt Hancock have been leading people to believe. I point out that the Bill does not seem to take account of any Barnett consequentials or social inequality issues, as has been raised by noble Lords. I hope that the Minister will be able to reassure the House that if there is extra funding for England, that should also be reflected in the devolved countries. There really needs to be a redistribution in terms of need as well. We absolutely understand that that has gone badly wrong in recent years.

Other noble Lords have already given a great deal of evidence on the current financial crises faced by different parts of the NHS, but it is worth briefly reiterating some of the headlines. We have heard that the revenue will increase from £120 billion in this financial year to £127 billion for the year we are about to start, and then increase further to £148.5 billion in 2023-24. Last year, NHS England’s long-term plan set out how it will deliver services over the next decade. I think I probably was not alone, when I read that plan last year, in thinking, “My goodness, they certainly know to squeeze every last penny out of the NHS to try to deliver those services.” We see what is happening at the moment with the pressures on the NHS. It is struggling—for the very good reason that this funding is not enough.

Others have argued that there is no need for this Bill at all as there is no need to enshrine NHS funding in law as an item separate from the Budget. That Theresa May and then Boris Johnson have felt that this was necessary speaks more, frankly, about the lack of public trust in the Government to deliver what many people believe that the NHS needs to survive. It is their beloved NHS and they want it to survive.

As others have said, the elephant in the room in this Bill is the lack of any clarity about the funding of social care. Most experts and non-experts alike recognise that some of the most severe pressures on the NHS are because of the total crisis in social care funding, brought about by severe, sustained and repeated cuts in the revenue grants to local authorities.

The Bill provides an average increase of only 3.4% year -on-year in funding. As other noble Lords have mentioned, the King’s Fund and many others who have written to noble Lords have said that the NHS needs a minimum of 4% per annum to restore the NHS key performance measures and to start to take account of demographic change, which will impact more on the health service and social care than perhaps any other part of public spending.

It was interesting listening to the noble Baroness, Lady Penn, and I will gently chide her, as she has chided her own side, by reminding her about it being the largest cash settlement in the NHS’s history. Full Fact, an independent organisation, found that, while that is correct in cash terms, after inflation the rise is £20.5 billion, which was exceeded by a £24 billion real-terms increase between 2004-05 and 2009-10. Therefore, the comments from the Labour Benches today are absolutely on the money—it is about the money. If people believe that is more money but then discover that there is not, they will become very angry very quickly.

Therefore, the question for the Government is: will the increase in funding that they are putting into law bring about the changes that our NHS and social care system needs? I use that phrase repeatedly because the department decided to extend its name to the Department of Health and Social Care—despite the fact that the crisis in social care is because all the funding is in a different department and is not only not accessible but regarded in a completely different way.

A&E waiting times continue to increase. We have already heard that achievement of the four-hour standard target dropped to below 80% for the first time since the target was introduced. Is that what is behind the Government’s discussions about abandoning some of the health targets? We explored that in the debate introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, a couple of weeks ago. I remain concerned that losing some of those targets and identifying new things that are not targets but something else will change the focus of work. There is a place for performance targets in the public sector. They should not change things for the bad, and I believe that they have changed them for the good. If these and other targets are being missed, that demonstrates that there is a problem in the NHS, not a problem with the targets.

Workforce problems persist across the NHS, with one in 11 vacancies being unfilled. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, reminded us of the health implications of social inequalities, especially poverty. At Second Reading in another place, the Secretary of State talked about the priorities for the new funding: more GP appointments; new cancer screening and faster diagnosis; prevention, detection and treatment of cardiovascular disease; and investment in innovative technologies, such as genomics and artificial intelligence. Many noble Lords who have spoken today have touched on most of those points. However, if something is not a priority and the money provided for it is not sufficient, we have to worry. The priorities say nothing about mental health, social care or public health.

In recent days, we have heard from a number of organisations that have pointed to the problems with each of the privileged priority areas marked for special treatment, so even they think that what is being provided is not enough. We have heard from noble Lords that in order to deliver more GP appointments, we need more GPs. However, it takes time to train them and at the moment the problem is that they cannot be recruited. They are training as doctors then going elsewhere. It is almost like the discussions that we had four or five years ago about the reasons people could not be attracted into A&E work in hospitals. It was because it was perceived to be a difficult place to work, and primary care is now facing that too. We also need better clinical support services, including community nurses, especially on overnight shifts—a point that I will come back to in a moment—to support GP services.

Noble Lords have discussed the fundamental problem of recruitment and retention of doctors, including GPs, especially with the history of funding hospitals and secondary care over and above primary care. We all know that this will take a decade to resolve. However, it has been made significantly worse because EU and other national doctors are leaving primary care due to the hostile environment. They feel that they are no longer welcome to work in the United Kingdom. Salary bands alone will not make the UK an attractive place to work, so this Government will have to do considerably more to encourage recruitment from abroad. We will need that if we are to at least temporarily stop the problems that we have at the moment.

On cancer services, Cancer Research UK has pointed out that

“no allowances are made within this for the growing cost of staff required to run the NHS.”

How do we think cancer services are going to be run? It says:

“This is a significant oversight, and as pressure piles up on existing overworked NHS staff, patients are being let down.”

Much of what it says is echoed by those who work in cardiovascular services, and we should also be clear about what is needed to help social care survive. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, for his comments on that, and I am particularly grateful for the briefing from the MS Society. It reminds us that local authority funding has not kept pace with demographic pressures. For adult social care it is not just a not-inflation cost; it is cutting services off at the knees. Although the additional £1.5 billion promised at the recent spending round for 2021 is useful, experts believe that that is the minimum needed to keep the social care system going.

Looking ahead, there is a large funding gap to improve the system on a sustainable basis. Last year, as has been mentioned, the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee estimated that improving care quality and addressing unmet need alone would require £8.1 billion in 2021. There is a big difference between £1.5 billion and just over £8 billion. The MS Society puts it in very human terms: one in three people living with multiple sclerosis is not getting the support they need to complete essential daily activities such as washing, dressing, eating or moving around the house safely.

It is worth remembering that the NHS Long Term Plan clearly states:

“Both the wellbeing of older people and pressures on the NHS are also linked to how well social care is functioning. When agreeing the NHS’ funding settlement the government therefore committed to ensure that adult social care funding is such that it does not impose any additional pressure on the NHS over the coming five years.”

Does the Minister believe that the amount allocated to adult social care is sufficient to avoid a negative impact on NHS constitutional standards? Does he believe that the amount allocated to adult social care is sufficient for local authorities to meet their duties as set out in the Care Act 2014? Given that we are told that the Treasury has asked all departments to prepare for 5% cuts, can the Minister confirm that the local authority grant for the next four years will have not only zero cuts but large and sustained growth for social care, public health and other parts of local authority budgets that impact on the health of the nation?

Investments in genomics and artificial intelligence—and other research, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Willis—are important because we must constantly improve our health system and use technology and research to maintain much of our leading edge, not just in research but in treatment techniques.

It is disappointing not to see mental health services as a priority. How the Government can talk about parity of esteem without funding it seems somewhat astonishing. Sir Norman Lamb and the Liberal Democrats in coalition persuaded the Conservatives that we should talk about parity of esteem for mental health. Will the Minister tell us what that equates to in money terms? I will not repeat the arguments made by many noble Lords during this debate about the problems with CCGs cooking the books. There is no other phrase for it: they cook the books. If they can get a tick for delivering on mental health, and yet we know that the money is being diverted, that is a lacuna in the system and it needs to be plugged swiftly. What extra funding will the Government provide for mental health services and how will they insist that CCGs deliver it and are accountable, not just in some annual report but as the year progresses, to make sure that it is spent on mental health services?

I turn to another area that CCGs have been working on: services for children with serious medical conditions. CCGs have cut the support and care required for these children over the last two years to the point at which there are virtually no medical respite care centres left for children on ventilators who require PEGs for feeding. Actually, they have also cut community nursing services at weekends and overnight. It does not affect just children; they also serve people with cancer and other illnesses. If you have a feeding tube that comes out in the night, the only thing you can do is go to A&E. That is ridiculous. Sending someone to A&E, particularly if they are in a home, costs far more than having a regular night-service system of community health services; but CCGs can do it, so they do.

I have a long list—but I will not go through it because time will not let me—of the other services that need to be considered. I have made the point about children; others are musculoskeletal services, occupational therapy and physiotherapy. They are all struggling because they are not seen as a priority.

I began by talking about the lack of trust in the Government to fund the NHS at a level that would deliver real and sustained growth in services. On the Lib Dem Benches in both Houses, we will hold the Government to two comments made by Matt Hancock at Second Reading. First, he said:

“The legislation explicitly states that the Bill establishes a floor, not a ceiling, for how much we spend on … the day-to-day running costs of the NHS.”—[Official Report, Commons, 27/1/20; col. 564.]

Later he said:

“I can guarantee that the mental health funding will be ring-fenced.”—[Official Report, Commons 27/1/20; col. 568.]

We stand at a crossroads in NHS funding. The Bill starts to make provision for increased funding but is by no means enough to provide the growth needed to bring services back to previous levels; nor does it take account of demographic change. All of this is without any of the other pressures that noble Lords have described—what happens if we have a further coronavirus problem?—and obviously the Bill does not tackle the issues in social care, public health and other key services. If these are not funded urgently and properly, the Bill will be nothing more than a temporary sticking plaster on an arterial bleed. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Baroness Thornton Portrait Baroness Thornton (Lab)
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My Lords, I start by reporting to the House again that I am a lay member of my local CCG, as in the register of interests. I also put on record my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood, for her time as a Minister and for the briefing that she gave us before the break.

It is my job to wind up this debate from these Benches, and I appreciate that it is the job of the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, to do so as the Government’s spokesperson. However, I have to say that as far as we can tell there has never been a major health Bill Second Reading in your Lordships’ House that was not answered by a Health Minister. We all know how competent the noble Lord is—

Earl Attlee Portrait Earl Attlee (Con)
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Does the noble Baroness agree that my noble friend answers for Her Majesty’s Government and is a Minister of the Crown?

Baroness Thornton Portrait Baroness Thornton
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I would just note that the noble Earl, who is an expert in procedure, was not actually in the debate that we have just had. We all know how competent the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, is at the Dispatch Box, but the Government put health at the centre of their programme. I think that it is not respectful to this House not to have a Health Minister in their place, and I look forward to there being one. If that is the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, that would be brilliant for him—I just want to put that on the record.

We have had some excellent contributions today. We are quite correct to use this opportunity to hold the Government to account, even if we cannot amend the Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said, we have had many briefings asking us to pose questions during this debate, many of which have been reflected in the contributions that we have heard.

This is a short Bill, but I have to say that, even by the standards of some of the very daft legislation that we have seen from the Conservatives over the past few years, the NHS Funding Bill, all stages of which will be debated on your Lordships’ House today, is rather strange. We know that Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, struggles to trust himself to carry out the things that he promised before and during the general election. In this case, it is the promise to increase NHS funding by £33 billion before the end of 2023-24—a promise that of course, as the noble Baroness, Lady Penn, said, was made in 2018 by his predecessor. To ensure that the Prime Minister meets his commitment, we have what my honourable friend Jonathan Ashworth has already said in the other place is a political gimmick: he has decided to put it on the statute book. Frankly, given Mr Johnson’s ongoing proximity to obeying the law and to the truth, that is probably no guarantee of anything at all.

In addition, with the proposed legislation designated as a money Bill, Peers will be unable to send any amendments back to the House of Commons for consideration. That is frustrating as the Bill, originally announced by Theresa May back in June 2018, contains, as many noble Lords have said, many serious problems and flaws. We agree with the King’s Fund, the Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation that an increase of at least 4% is required to modernise and improve standards in the NHS, and that the 3.4% that this funding proposal brings might just about keep the show on the road. Indeed, as many other noble Lords have said, given that inflation is set to be higher than initially anticipated, the increase will be of even less value.

The Government’s proposals, as noble Lords have said, omit some very important factors. The Bill does not apply to the whole of the healthcare budget, and the exceptions mean it will not deliver, I believe, the transformation that the Government—and, indeed, all of us—desire. If the new funding is not accompanied by equivalent and sustainable investment in public health—we have had a discussion this afternoon that they do not even know what their budget is for the coming year in public health, which really makes their life impossible—social care and capital investment, the strains on the NHS will increase, storing up further problems for the future. Indeed, as many other noble Lords have said, the Bill does not address workforce, education and training.

Several noble Lords outlined the challenges that the NHS faces right now, so I will not repeat the issues about waiting times and trolley waits increasing, the 4.42 million people waiting for elective treatment and the delays of hospitalisation, often due to the lack of social care provision. Indeed, after this debate we will be discussing how we can deal with what might become a pandemic. We hope that it will not, but it adds to the serious challenges facing the NHS.

The British Medical Association is calling for a comprehensive spending plan that increases total health spending by at least 4.1% per year in real terms to address the gap between the funding of current services and future demand, and to put the NHS on a sustainable long-term footing. This equates to an extra £9.5 billion a year by 2023-24. What is the Minister’s view on that? I think the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, together hit the nail on the head about social care, so I do not think I can add to that, except to echo that it has to be properly funded, otherwise this funding will not work. The strain on the NHS from the inadequacies of our social care system will ensure that it will not work. That, to me, seems to be a matter of the greatest urgency.

I am looking at capital investment. The NAO has reported that £4.3 billion was transferred from the capital budget to the revenue budget in the NHS between 2014-15 and 2018-19. The impact of these transfers can now be seen in an estimated backlog of maintenance of £6.5 billion. This affects patient care and safety: it means that there is water running down walls, so the wards cannot be used; it is a disruption of clinical services; and it means that the kit that people are using is outdated and, therefore, they have to be referred on because the X-rays and the MRI scans are not adequate. The Government’s stated aim of delivering the long-term plan will not be achievable without urgent and sustained investment in these areas through another multiyear settlement.

The Bill does not address staffing, as many other noble Lords have said. There are now over 106,000 vacancies across the NHS in England and no allowance seems to have been made for the growing cost of recruitment and retention of staff at every level, so the NHS people plan needs to be published urgently so that we can see how the Government intend to deliver on their commitment to support with the additional resources. As other noble Lords have said, Macmillan Cancer Support and Cancer Research UK say that adding 50,000 general nurses will not solve the crisis in the cancer workforce. Cancer Research UK says that the increase completely fails to address the significant and growing problem there is in the diagnostic workforce.

I turn to mental health. My noble friend Lord Bradley explained the urgent priorities there, particularly in children’s mental health services. As other noble Lords have said, mental illness represents up to 23% of the total burden of ill health in the UK but only 11% of the NHS budgets. So the Government will ensure the delivery of effective spending on mental health only if, as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said, we have detailed breakdowns for each CCG, including separate figures for mental health investment and assessment, spending on learning disability and spending on dementia services.

In conclusion, I agree with my noble friend Lord Hunt about short-termism. Would the Minister care to look at the report from the noble Lord, Lord Patel, and its recommendations and proposals about short-termism and take them into account when discussing how to proceed with the long-term plan?

This week, we saw the launch of the Marmot 10-year review of health inequalities. As the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, said, it makes very dismal and serious reading. It also shows the context in which our NHS is struggling to meet the appalling health inequalities facing the UK. As noble Lords have said, for the first decade in 100 years, life expectancy has failed to increase. As Sir Michael Marmot says:

“Put simply, if health has stopped improving it is a sign that society has stopped improving.”

The report points a finger at the all-too-familiar social and economic conditions that have increased health inequalities, which are now quite literally a matter of life and death. The NHS Funding Bill therefore should feed into a more general discussion about creating a fairer society and improving people’s well-being—and, by doing so, should help to improve the health of the whole population.

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
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My Lords, I join those who have paid tribute to the work of my noble friend Lady Blackwood, my predecessor at the Dispatch Box, who made an invaluable contribution to the Department of Health and Social Care and is very sorely missed. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for offering to join my campaign team. It is an offer that I am very happy to accept.

I was warned by the Chief Whip not to say that this was a vintage House of Lords debate and the House of Lords at its best, because it is hackneyed—but it is true. This has been a terrific debate, very highly informed and very challenging. There have been an enormous number of challenges in this debate—far too many for me to get through all of them—but I will try my best. Forgive me if I rattle through things a little.

I reassure the House that the NHS is the top priority of the British people, as a number of noble Lords have rightly pointed out, and of this Government. I know that there may be cynicism about the long-term plan that is being discussed today and about the Bill. The numbers that have been put forward in the Bill came from the NHS itself. The Bill enshrines those numbers in law. It is not a gimmick, and it is not Swiss cheese, as one noble Lord put it.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
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I think most of us thought that these numbers came from NHS England, not the wider NHS. Can the Minister clarify that?

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
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I am happy to accept that clarification. The noble Lord is exactly right: the numbers are from NHS England and they apply in that way.

To go back to Swiss cheese, the Bill is an ironclad guarantee to protect NHS funding. We are giving the NHS the certainty it needs to invest now for the long term. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, who put his finger on it. He spoke about the culture of short-termism and rightly mentioned—as did other noble Lords—the excellent report of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, on long-term sustainability. The natural human instinct to mitigate and to hedge when finances and money are uncertain has been remarked on in this debate. It is an entirely human instinct. The Government want to remove that uncertainty and to send a really clear signal to the system. We want to remove any sense of political risk about finance, so that decision-makers in the health system can make the best possible plans without looking over their shoulders to the finance director. They can instead be brave and make the best decisions possible and, in that way, implement the long-term plan in the most efficient way possible.

Where I have a difference of opinion with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is in his scepticism that reducing demand for hospital care is not possible. This Government believe that prevention is better than cure. That is why we are placing huge emphasis on community services, primary care and supporting people to live in the community, which reduces the number of people looking for acute care. We are investing in GPs and in urgent care centres to ensure that people are treated in the right place and at the right time.

I will talk first about the Bill in its essence. A number of Peers, including the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, have remarked that it is not enough money. I remind noble Lords that the plan comes from NHS England and that the Bill does not limit the amount of funding that we put into the NHS. Instead, it sets out a budget that must be at least what we have committed to. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that this is not a cap. That is laid out clearly in Clause 1, which states:

“In making an allotment to the health service in England for each financial year specified in the table, the Secretary of State must allot an amount that is at least the amount specified in relation to that financial year.”

I will now tackle a few points of detail. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about transfers from capital to revenue. We have said that such transfers were a short-term measure and are being phased out. Furthermore, the Treasury operates strict conditions on transferring between capital and revenue budgets. This is not a blanket ban. Sometimes technical adjustments between capital and revenue are needed for operational reasons, but these are a temporary measure.

The noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Warner, asked about trust debt. We totally recognise that the stock of debt has grown and in recent years has become a significant financial challenge. We are working with NHS England and NHS Improvement to agree a framework of bringing provider debt down to an affordable level. We look to establish a new financing framework for 2020-21 that complements the NHS long-term plan.

The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, was 100% right to raise the challenge of health inequality. We were all chastened by the Marmot review, which told uncomfortable truths. We completely accept the right to a long life. This Government are not ducking the challenge of health inequality. In fact, when we talk about levelling up, what could be a more vivid and valued form of levelling up than health equality? That is why we have put so much emphasis on laying down concrete commitments to these financial numbers and laying out, to the best of our ability, a long-term plan for the NHS.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, asked a marathon six questions, which I will not be able to answer in their entirety. I will just tackle the question of cash not being index-linked and numbered. The NHS budget, like many other departmental settlements, is always set out in cash terms. This is essentially to deliver certainty. Experience has taught us that every time inflation goes up or down, budgets need to be reopened and confusion reigns. Furthermore, we as a House should remember that we are proposing a floor, not a ceiling; this is the kind of clear reassurance that has been asked for by the system.

I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that additional spending on the NHS in England absolutely leads to an increase in funding for the devolved Administrations through the Barnett formula—£7 billion for the Scottish Government from 2019-20 to 2023-24; £4 billion for the Welsh Government; and £2.3 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive. We will undertake a spending review later this year and will publish multiyear Barnett-based block grants for the devolved Administrations shortly afterwards.

Many noble Lords asked about the capital budget and quite reasonably asked why the Bill is about only revenue, not capital. The Bill is very much about protecting the record revenue spending for NHS England. However, we all know and totally acknowledge the requirement for capital investment. The Government have already made significant commitments: 40 new hospitals, with £2.7 billion for the first six; a further £2 billion capital spending, including £850 million for the first 20 hospital upgrades; and so on. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Warner, and others, that further decisions about NHS capital will be made at a fiscal event in the very near future.

I note the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, about the mental health estate and the use of wards. I reassure the House, and the noble Baroness in particular, that her arguments have been heard loud and clear. The Government recognise that the mental health estate is not satisfactory and are looking at ways to modernise these out-of-date buildings and arrangements.

The noble Lord, Lord Young, made a plea for GP surgeries. This resonates with me personally. The patient experience of arriving at a GP surgery is essential. Time and again, from my own experience, from what I know of human nature and from what I hear from patients, it is an unhappy one. In particular, the role of the receptionist at the GP surgery is unfortunate. I feel enormously for front-line professionals who have to deal with triage and the awkward conversations that take place. Something must be done to rethink the way we present ourselves to patients and that initial interface through the receptionist: a patient-first modernisation will be important.

Lord Bradley Portrait Lord Bradley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Going back to the Minister’s comment about further capital announcements at an event in the very near future, will that allow the department to release the cash for the seventh hospital, North Manchester General?

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The noble Lord asks a very good question. The answer is not in my mega briefing pack, but I will be very glad to get back to him if I find an answer.

The noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Warner, asked, quite rightly, about maintenance, which is brought up during every hospital visit I make. We recognise the challenge that maintenance presents to the existing estate and the Government have recognised the need for further capital investment in the NHS by announcing, over the summer of 2019, a £1.8 billion increase in NHS capital spending, including £850 million for 20 more hospital upgrades. We know that more capital funding will be needed and this will be dealt with in the near future.

The noble Lord, Lord Bradley, asked about capital for North Manchester General Hospital and the prospects for a green light for the project. As part of our health infrastructure plan, 21 new-build projects across 34 hospitals are receiving £100 million seed funding to help plan their schemes and move on to the next stage. I am delighted that Manchester NHS will benefit from £4.6 million seed funding to help plan and redevelop North Manchester General Hospital.

I move from the Bill to the central thrust of the debate, which was not about the Bill itself, but about what was not in it. I start with mental health, because Peer after Peer addressed this subject. I reassure the House that spending on mental health in the NHS long-term plan is an absolutely massive priority for the Government. This historic level of investment—£2.3 billion by 2023-24—will ensure that this Government can drive forward one of the most ambitious mental health reform programmes anywhere in Europe. It will ensure that 380,000 more people per year will have access to psychological therapies; that 370,000 adults and older adults with severe mental illness can access better support; and that 345,000 children and young people will be able to access services.

I cannot say exactly how many of the nurses that we will recruit will be mental health nurses. That data is not available, but I can say that we are transforming community-based mental health support so that more people can be treated closer to home. We are ensuring that the NHS is delivering the commitment to increasing investment in mental health provision. As a result, we have required all clinical commissioning groups to meet the mental health investment standard. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, had some detailed and significant questions about how the mental health investment standard was being applied. Rather than try to give a half answer now, I suggest that we meet to discuss her data in detail. I should be glad to understand more about her concerns.

Baroness Hollins Portrait Baroness Hollins
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his response. He mentioned increased access to mental health services for many more people but, in my experience, people with learning disabilities and autism are often left out of those services and seen as requiring something different, whereas they need to be included in all services. Can he confirm and reassure me that that is the case in, for example, psychological therapies?

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The noble Baroness makes an important point and her work in this area is well known. It would be, however, slightly outside the remit of the Bill to go into that in great detail. I do not have the answer she is looking for but should be glad to meet her to discuss this important matter. I share her concerns and my interests in the area are entirely aligned with hers.

My noble friend Lady Penn put us all on the rack regarding the mental health White Paper. I would very much like to give her the absolute date and concrete publication arrangements for it but that is slightly beyond me. However, I reassure her that it will be within the next few months; spring is the hoped-for arrival time.

Baroness Penn Portrait Baroness Penn
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Can the Minister define when spring ends and summer begins?

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My noble friend asks a question of such philosophical Whitehall subtlety that it is way beyond my pay grade to provide a clear, etymological answer to that. However, I reassure her that the matter is an enormous priority, and when I go back to the department I will lean on it hard to deliver this important publication.

The commentaries of my noble friend Lady Penn and the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, on the visibility of spending on children’s mental health was important. The Government are 100% aligned on this. I noted the Minister of State from another place standing at the Bar, nodding with agreement while those words were being said. I know that a meeting has been agreed on this matter and a date is in the diary, I believe for next week, and I very much look forward to the outcome. I reassure the House that this question of visibility and publication is taken ex3tremely seriously.

The noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, asked about the mental health investment standard. CCGs are required to increase investment in mental health, as discussed earlier. All CCGs are on track to meet that standard, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, rightly pointed out in 2019-20. I suggested in my previous speech that it would be premature to legislate for specific aspects in the Bill and capital will be considered in other fiscal events.

The noble Lord, Lord Bradley, spoke movingly about children’s mental health. I reassure the House that, in addition to increased mental health funding, we are implementing a progressive programme of transformational change for children and young people’s mental health services. This will include incentivising every school or college to identify and train a senior lead for mental health, creating new school and college-based mental health support teams, and piloting a four-week waiting time for children and young people’s specialised services.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and others brought up the sensitive subject of adult social care. Fixing that long-term issue is one of the great challenges that this Government have taken to their shoulders. The reassurance I can give noble Lords is a political one. There are many complex questions to address, but our pledge as a Government has been clear: everybody will have safety and security, and nobody will be forced to sell their home to pay for care. Delivering on this promise will require an enormous amount of stakeholder engagement and political bridge-building, and we are embarking on that important process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, was quite right to say that social care workers are wrongly described as low skilled. I entirely agree with her sentiments; they are low paid but highly valued.

I am running out of time and have a few more points to make. I will jump to the conclusion and say that the Government take this Bill very seriously. The execution of the money involved in the Bill is also taken very seriously. There have been a number of exciting, important ideas about how that money should be spent from the noble Lords, Lord Willis and Lord Kakkar, among others.

We made our commitment in the manifesto and the Queen’s Speech to enshrine record NHS funding in law. We are delivering on that commitment and putting the NHS on a secure and stable footing for the future. The NHS belongs to us all, and this Government are backing that idea. I commend this Bill to the House.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Before the Minister sits down, I have a question. I have been digesting his answer to me on inflation-proofing. Is he saying one way or the other whether these figures will be inflation-proofed annually, with the passage of time? Two-thirds of NHS costs are pay, and there will presumably be some pay increases. What is the Government’s position on inflation-proofing these figures?

Lord Bethell Portrait Lord Bethell
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It is the convention in the Treasury to express spending commitments in cash terms. That is the convention of government and how this Bill is expressed. It is not the commitment of government to uprate these figures necessarily according to inflation. They are adjusted for all the potential inflation that may happen. That said, if unexpected events happen or pressures are great, there is the opening and the capacity to increase spending if necessary.

Bill read a second time. Committee negatived. Standing Order 46 having been dispensed with, the Bill was read a third time, and passed.

NHS Funding Bill

(1st reading (Hansard): House of Lords)
Wednesday 5th February 2020

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Lords Chamber

Read Hansard Text

First Reading

The Bill was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed.

NHS Funding Bill

(3rd reading: House of Commons)
Tuesday 4th February 2020

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber

Read Hansard Text Bill Main Page
Department of Health and Social Care

Considered in Legislative Grand Committee (England)

[Dame Rosie Winterton in the Chair]

Rosie Winterton Portrait The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I remind hon. Members that if there is a Division only Members representing constituencies in England may vote.

Clause 1

Funding Settlement for the health service in England

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move amendment 2, page 1, line 10, at end insert—

“(1A) The amount spent on mental health services in each financial year set out in the table must be set out in a statement laid before the House of Commons by the Secretary of State no later than 30 June in each year.

(1B) The statement in subsection (1A) must be accompanied by a statement on the Secretary of State’s plans to achieve parity of esteem in mental health services.”

This amendment would require the Secretary of State to report annually on the amount actually spent on mental health services, and on the Secretary of State’s plans to achieve parity of esteem in mental health services.

Rosie Winterton Portrait The First Deputy Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 1, page 1, line 14, at end insert—

“(2A) For each year in the table in subsection (1), the Secretary of State must specify the amount of the allotment that is for mental health services.”

This amendment requires the Secretary of State to specify the amount to be spent each year on mental health services.

Amendment 5, page 1, line 14, at end insert—

“(2A) For each year in the table in subsection (1), the Secretary of State must specify the amount of the allotment that is for training for staff to improve maternity safety and care for mothers and babies.”

This amendment would require the Secretary of State to specify the amount to be spent each year on improving maternity safety and care for mothers and babies.

Amendment 3, page 1, line 18, at end insert—

“and that the sums set out in the table are not permitted to be augmented by or composed of any virements from NHS capital budgets.”

This amendment would stop the Secretary of State meeting the NHS England allotment for resource spending by using funds from NHS capital budgets.

Clauses 1 and 2 stand part.

New clause 1—Annual report on mental health spending—

“The Secretary of State must lay before the House of Commons an annual statement of the outturn of NHS England spending on mental health services no later than six months after the end of each financial year, beginning with the year ending 31 March 2020 and up to and including the year ending 31 March 2024.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to report each year on the actual level of spending on mental health services.

New clause 2—Annual Report on Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services spending—

“(1) The Secretary of State must lay before the House of Commons an annual statement of the outturn of NHS England spending on Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS) no later than six months after the end of each financial year, beginning with the year ending 31 March 2020 and up to and including the year ending 31 March 2024.

(2) The annual statement from subsection (1) must report figures on—

(a) CAMHS expenditure per head,

(b) the percentage of the annual NHS England budget allotted to CAMHS, and

(c) the percentage of the annual mental health budget allotted to CAMHS.

(3) The figures in subsection (2) must be broken down by standard regional units in England or by such territories as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.

(4) Each statement under subsection (1) must include an assessment by the Secretary of State on whether expenditure on CAMHS has met the aims of the NHS Long Term Plan.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report each year on the actual level of spending on CAMHS. It requires figures to be broken down by regional units and for the Secretary of State to include an assessment of whether expenditure on CAMHS is meeting the aims of the NHS Long Term Plan.

New clause 3—Allocation of funding—

“The Secretary of State must lay a report before the House of Commons no later than 31 July each year setting out how much in percentage and in cash terms in relation to the amounts set out at section 1(1) has been spent on mental health services in the most recent year ended on 31 March.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report annually on the amount and proportion of NHS England spending devoted to mental health services.

New clause 4—Annual statement on performance—

“The Secretary of State must make a statement to the House of Commons no later than 31 March each year setting out—

(a) whether in the Secretary of State’s opinion the amount specified in section 1(1) for the following financial year is sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS constitution, and

(b) if in the Secretary of State’s opinion the amount specified in section 1(1) for the following financial year is not sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS constitution, what steps Secretary of State is taking to ensure that those targets are met.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report annually on whether the allotment to the health service specified in section 1(1) year is sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS Constitution and, if not, what steps Secretary of State is taking to ensure that those targets are met.

New clause 5—Inflation—

“(1) The Secretary of State must make a statement to the House of Commons in the event that the annual rate of inflation as set out in the Consumer Prices Index is greater than 3.3% in any six months out of twelve after the date on which this Act is passed.

(2) The statement under subsection (1) must specify whether, and by how much, the allotments to the health service in England set out will exceed the amount specified in the table in section 1(1).”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to make a statement on the impact of inflation above a certain rate on the allotments to NHS England.

New clause 9—Annual parity of esteem report: spending on mental health and mental illness—

“Within six weeks of the end of each financial year specified in the table, the Secretary of State must lay before each House of Parliament a report on the ways in which the allotment made to NHS England for that financial year contributed to the promotion in England of a comprehensive health service designed to secure improvement—

(a) in the mental health of the people of England, and

(b) in the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to make an annual statement on how the funding received by mental health services that year from the overall annual allotment has contributed to the improvement of mental health and the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness.

New clause 11—Annual review of adequacy of allotment to NHS England—

“The Secretary of State must lay before each House of Parliament within 14 days of the Treasury laying the annual main estimate for the Department of Health and Social Care an assessment of the extent to which changes in the costs of pharmaceutical treatments, medical devices and service delivery since the date on which this Act is passed have affected the health outcomes in England achieved as a result of the amounts in the table in section 1 of this Act allotted to NHS England.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to publish an annual assessment of the impact of changes in the costs of pharmaceutical treatments, medical devices and service delivery on the expected outcomes from the allotted amounts under this Act.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:30 p.m.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Dame Rosie. In my speech I will address amendment 2 and, as we are dealing with everything in one go, the other amendments and new clauses submitted in my name and the names of my right hon. Friends.

It seems that Members across the House are anxious that the Government’s laudable aims on parity of esteem for mental health services are given some legislative teeth. The NHS long-term plan rightly calls for more investment in mental health services to give mental health the same priority as physical health. That is the right approach and it is one that we support. However, as we can see by the amendments that have been tabled today, there is scepticism about how that will actually be delivered. Investment in mental health services has been seriously neglected in recent years and mental health patients are some of the people who have been most let down by the Government in the last decade.

No doubt we will hear from those on the Government Benches that mental health spending is increasing, and that the funding set out in the Bill will benefit mental health services, but the reality is that on this Government’s watch, we have seen a mental health crisis emerge. We are not getting the investment at the level required and services are simply unable to keep pace with demand. As a consequence, the number of people living with serious mental health problems is rising. Patients are unable to access vital psychological therapies within six weeks and often have to wait over 100 days for talking therapy treatments. Thousands of mental health patients continue to be sent hundreds of miles from home, because their local NHS does not have the beds or the staff to provide the care they need. These are often young people in desperate circumstances being sent away from their family and friends—their support network, as it were—and that to me sounds a long way away from parity of esteem. We know that adults in need of help with eating disorders are waiting more than three years for treatment, while hospital admissions for eating disorders increase year on year. The number of people living with serious mental health problems is continuing to rise and suicide levels are at their highest since 2002.

Even against this awful backdrop, however, it is children’s mental health services that are suffering most from the chronic lack of funding. Children’s mental health services account for just 8% of total mental health spending, and the Government’s continual failure to prioritise children’s mental health has led to services for children effectively being rationed. We know that on average, children and young people visit their GP three times before they get a referral for specialist assessment. They then have to wait more than six months for treatment to start. Suicidal children as young as 12 are having to wait more than two weeks for beds in mental health units to start treatment, despite the obvious risk to their lives.

Three out of four children with mental health conditions do not get the support they need. With over 130,000 referrals to specialist services turned down, despite children showing signs of eating disorders, self-harm or abuse, the problem has become so bad that some children and families are being told by their GPs to pretend that their mental health problem is worse than it is to make sure they get the help they need. Four hundred thousand children and young people with mental health conditions are not receiving any professional help at all—400,000. That is a scandalous figure. We know that mental health conditions in adults often begin in childhood, so it is not only an outrageous dereliction of duty to our young people; it will also end up costing the NHS and society far more in the long run.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do not want to detain the hon. Gentleman too long, because he is making a very good speech and very important points, but I just wonder whether he has any views about the setting of this debate in the Legislative Grand Committee, the de facto English Parliament. SNP Members are excluded from voting in this debate and excluded from tabling any amendments, yet the Bill will have a fundamental impact on the health funding of Scotland through Barnett consequentials. I am interested in his views on that process, so will he say something about them? Can we have Labour support, so that this nonsense stops and we go back to one class of MP in this House where everybody can participate equally?

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:34 p.m.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I understand his frustration absolutely. I think he has a very fair point, Dame Rosie, that because of the Barnett consequentials there is a role for SNP Members—indeed, all Scottish and Welsh Members—in this debate. Clearly, that is a separate issue to the whole English votes for English laws process, but the fact is clear that on the face of the Bill there are Barnett consequentials, which mean that the devolved nations ought to have a say.

It is really no wonder, given the background I have just set out, that children are reaching a crisis point before getting the support they need, and that the number of children attending accident and emergency for their mental health in a situation of crisis is increasing year on year. That is not inevitable. With real investment, we could reverse the trend of long waits, rationed treatment and inadequate care if we allocated more of the NHS budget to mental health. As we know, mental health illnesses represent 23% of the total disease burden on the NHS, but just 11% of the NHS England budget. That is a long way off the parity of esteem that we all seek to achieve.

We know that the Government plan to put in an extra £2.3 billion a year by 2023-24, but that is not enough. The Institute for Public Policy Research has said that to achieve parity of esteem for mental health services, funding for those services needs to grow by 5.5% on average not just next year, but over the next decade. The NHS plans to spend £12.2 billion on mental health funding in 2019, but the IPPR estimates that that needs to reach 16.1 billion by 2023-24 alone.

Of course, we support the increased funding for mental health in the Bill, but we know the NHS has to live within the 3.3% uplift provided under the Bill. The Institute for Fiscal Studies, the Health Foundation, NHS providers, the British Medical Association and many of the royal colleges say that health expenditure should rise across the board by 3.4% just to maintain current standards of care. By definition, there will actually be less money for funding in other areas. That means there is a risk of further raids on the mental health budget. In previous years, money allocated to mental health services, particularly children and adolescent mental health services, has been diverted back to hospitals to deal with the crisis there.

Labour would have done what was desperately needed. We would have put in an extra £1.6 billion a year immediately into mental health services, ring-fenced mental health budgets and more than doubled spending on children’s mental health. That is why we are seeking to amend the Bill to ensure mental health services do not lose out because of other financial pressures in the system. We are calling on the Government to ensure that guarantees for mental health funding are protected by ring-fencing mental health funding. We also seek to require the Secretary of State to come to the House annually to report on the amounts and proportion of funding allocated to mental health services, and on their plans to achieve parity of esteem for mental health services.

On the Labour Benches we are not convinced that mental health is a priority for this Government, despite what they say. They may want to position themselves as the party of the NHS, but as long as they continue to neglect mental health and push services deeper into crisis, they will not come near that aim. We intend to push amendment 2 to a Division, because we want to hold the Government to account. We want transparency on mental health spending and we want a clear road map from the Secretary of State on how he intends to make parity of esteem a reality.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I wonder if I could raise with my hon. Friend an example that I think makes his point, which is the state of NHS finances in north-west London, in particular of the acute hospital that serves my constituents, Northwick Park Hospital, and the clinical commissioning group. Both the trust and the CCG are over £30 million in deficit. As a result, they have cut back on community mental health services and, indeed, on a range of other things. Unless there is parity of esteem and unless there is a significantly higher funding boost for the NHS in north-west London than that currently being suggested by the Conservative party, I fear that mental health services, as he so rightly says, are likely to be cut even further.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:39 p.m.

My hon. Friend sets out very clearly the challenge that the Government face from the debt situation in the NHS. Both in-year deficits and total debt to Government have not been addressed adequately or taken into account in the Bill and that is clearly of huge concern.

Amendment 5 deals with patient safety, which should be front and centre in the NHS. When things go wrong, as they sadly do from time to time, it can have tragic consequences for patients and their loved ones. When three in four baby deaths and injuries are preventable with different care, it seems particularly tragic when things go wrong during birth, leaving families devastated by the loss of a child or having to cope with the long-term impact. There have been many things over the years that I have disagreed with the previous Secretary of State—the right hon. Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt)—about, but on Second Reading he raised the important issue of maternity safety training, calling on the current Health Secretary to reinstate the maternity safety fund. We absolutely agree with him on that, which is why we have tabled amendment 5.

Improved maternal health is one of four priority areas in the long-term plan for care quality and improved outcomes, and it includes action to achieve 50% reductions in stillbirth, maternal mortality, neonatal mortality and serious brain injury by the middle of the decade. As a party, we have pledged to legislate for safe staffing and to increase funding for NHS staff training, including reinstating the maternity training fund to help to improve maternity safety in our hospitals. The leaked interim report of the Ockenden review last year exposed widespread failures in maternity care at Shrewsbury and Telford hospital trusts and demonstrated, sadly, that Morecambe Bay was not a one-off.

An evaluation of maternity safety training from 2016 found that it had made a difference and improved patient safety, yet it was still axed. Just two years later, the “Mind the Gap” report found that fewer than 8% of trusts were providing all training elements and care needs in the “Saving Babies’ Lives” bundle and called for the maternity safety training fund to be immediately reinstated to address, as it said, the

“clear…inadequate funding for training”.

Given the clear evidence of the need for the training fund’s reinstatement, I very much regret that it is not within the scope of the Bill for us to submit an amendment to include its reinstatement. However, with the amendment we seek to put a greater spotlight on the issue, and hopefully, that will require the Government to set out how much they are spending on improving maternity safety and care for mothers and babies each year in order for them to demonstrate their commitment to improving maternity and foetal safety. I believe that that will enable us to judge and evaluate their commitment to those aims.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:42 p.m.

It is not within the Bill’s scope to press the Government on the need to have funding restored to smoking cessation services so that they can have multimedia campaigns to reduce smoking in pregnancy and smoking generally. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is a shame that the Government cannot address that at this time?

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:44 p.m.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is a matter of some regret that public health has not been included in the Bill. As we have said repeatedly, we have to look at the health system in the round and include public health and, of course, social care. We cannot deal with those matters in isolation and I believe that it was a mistake for the Government to restrict the Bill in this way.

Despite the many tragedies that we know about in maternity care, it is worth restating that we still have fantastic midwives and fantastic maternity care in this country. That is to be celebrated, but we also need to ensure that when things go wrong—when there are failures and safety issues—we address them and lessons are learned so that no more families have to experience such tragedies.

Amendment 3 is about genuinely giving trusts the certainty that the Bill only purports to do, as well as beginning to tackle the appalling maintenance backlog that has arisen on the Government’s watch. As we know, trusts are around £14 billion in debt to the Government and are currently predicting a £571 million in-year deficit. That is a truly shocking and unsustainable situation. Only short-term fixes have prevented the situation from getting even worse. Such fixes are a symptom of structural long-term underfunding, and like most short-term fixes they create bigger problems further down the road.

We have been absolutely clear that the funding settlement proposed in the Bill is inadequate and that it will not be enough to keep up with demand. As I said, that analysis is shared by just about every major health expert, including the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the Health Foundation, most royal colleges and NHS providers, and the BMA.

In that context, we are concerned that there will be a temptation, as there has been, to dip into capital budgets to paper over the cracks on a day-to-day basis. We have seen that happen five times in the last decade. This means that we now face a maintenance backlog that has spiralled out of all control, topping £6.5 billion. That is an 8% increase on the previous year, when the cost was just under £6 billion. In dollars, that might get us one Steve Austin, but it is not enough to fix the NHS—I suspect that that reference might not mean much to anyone under 40, although I understand that there will be a reboot later this year, so it might become a bit more relevant. However, the point is that this figure has been rising each year for the last six years and it is now 60% higher than it was in 2013-14. It is very clear that the backlog has risen much faster than the resources that have been made available to tackle it.

Over half the backlog represents high and significant risk. That accounts for an increasing proportion of the total backlog figures. High and significant risk represented about 34% of the backlog in 2013-14, but last year—2018-19—it had gone up to 53%. It is getting bigger and all the time, it also becomes riskier.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:46 p.m.

In support of the case that my hon. Friend is making, I again mention Northwick Park Hospital, which serves my constituents. It has a huge maintenance backlog. Since the cancellation of the Government’s “Shaping a Healthier Future” NHS reform plan for north-west London in June last year—that programme of reform had been going on for seven years —there has also been no replacement money identified for investment in intensive treatment beds, an extra 30 of which are needed to help to tackle some of the problems in A&E at Northwick Park Hospital.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:46 p.m.

My hon. Friend is again showing what an assiduous and determined constituency MP he is. He might want to look at the NHS providers’ report today, which sets out some of the challenges from the lack of a long-term capital investment programme. As we have heard, including from him and in relation to other various examples around the country, this is not just about a lick of paint, but about really vital work that impacts on patient care.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:47 p.m.

When my hon. Friend talks about capital, I think of the hospital that was cancelled for my constituency by the Tory-Lib Dem Government 10 years ago. Does he share my opinion that when it comes to the capital programme and NHS funding, the Government should consider the life expectancy in different areas? In my constituency, it is 14 years lower than in the Prime Minister’s constituency, so I desperately need a new hospital for my area.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 2:47 p.m.

I am sure that if my hon. Friend continues with his determined campaign, he will see that hospital appear. His point about health inequalities is really important. It is absolutely scandalous that we see such disparity in this country, and we want to see further and more determined action from the Government on that.

Patients ultimately pay for the increasing backlog. Between 2017-18 and 2018-19, there was a 25% increase in clinical service incidents. These incidents are caused by estate and infrastructure failure that leads to clinical services being delayed, cancelled or otherwise interfered with.

Dan Poulter Portrait Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 2:48 p.m.

The hon. Gentleman is making some very fair points about the importance of investing in hospital infrastructure. A number of years ago, we were promised a paperless NHS, but the reality today is very different. In fact, NHS IT infrastructure is creaking at the seams. There has been a complete failure to invest adequately in that infrastructure, which is compromising patient care. Far too many staff hours are lost on IT systems that are not fit for purpose. Will he join me in urging the Government to take that issue very seriously, because it is about improving patient care as well as improving productivity and better using staff time?

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
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4 Feb 2020, 2:49 p.m.

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We have all heard horror stories of workers in the health service having to turn on seven or eight different computer systems and use fax machines and pagers— there were so many fax machines in the NHS I used to think the previous Health Secretary was sponsored by Rank Xerox. It is a serious point though. If we are to improve patient outcomes, we will need to move with the times and get the benefits of technological improvements.

Mark Tami Portrait Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
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My hon. Friend will agree on the importance of the Countess of Chester Hospital to his area and mine. It is quite a unique hospital, in that it was built to serve the people of Deeside in north Wales as well as Chester and the surrounding area, so is it not strange that, although many in my area rely on it, I will not be allowed to vote on the Bill today?

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
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4 Feb 2020, 2:50 p.m.

My hon. Friend makes a pertinent point. Both my parents are residents of north Wales but on occasion use the Countess of Chester Hospital. This process does not take account of the reality on the ground. As I said before, the fact that there will be Barnett consequentials from the Bill suggests that we have made a serious error in not allowing those from the devolved nations to vote on it.

We know what some trusts have told us about the lack of capital investment and what that means on the frontline: Morecambe Bay has said it has “unsuitable” environments for safe clinical care that have led to the closure of its day case theatre; the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in King’s Lynn has warned of a direct risk to life and patient safety from the roof falling in; and at the Royal Derby Hospital, a failing emergency buzzer system in the children’s ward means that staff would be unable to warn colleagues if something went seriously wrong. That is not acceptable.

The capital maintenance backlog will not be addressed unless the Government take note of what NHS Providers says in the report that came out this morning. It talks about the need for the NHS to have a multi-year capital settlement and a commitment from the Government to bringing the NHS capital budget in line with those in comparable economies, which would allow the NHS to pay for essential maintenance work and invest in long-term transformational capital projects of the kind we have touched on. One of our criticisms of the Bill is that capital allocations have not been included in the figures in clause 1, so in order to protect those allocations we have tabled amendment 3, which we hope to push to a vote, to stop the Government’s continual sticking-plaster approach.

I move now to performance targets and our new clause 4. We all know about the record investment and record patient satisfaction levels that the last Labour Government bequeathed to the Conservatives, but another part of their legacy was the NHS constitution, introduced as part of a 10-year plan to provide the highest quality of care and services for patients in England. It included a clear statement of accountability, transparency and responsibility, and standards of care for accessing treatment. These are the figures we often trade across the Dispatch Box.

Only last month, across this very Dispatch Box, the Prime Minister gave us assurances on performance. He said:

“We will get those waiting lists down”—[Official Report, 15 January 2020; Vol. 669, c. 1015.]

We would all like to see that, but we should remind ourselves of the Government’s sorry record: the target for 95% of patients being seen within four hours in A&E has not been met since July 2015; the target for 92% of people on the waiting list to be waiting fewer than 18 weeks for treatment has not been met since February 2016; the target for 1% of patients waiting for more than six weeks for a diagnostic test has not been met since November 2013; and the NHS has not met the 62-day standard for urgent referrals for suspected cancer treatment since December 2015. I fail to see how the Prime Minister can drive down waiting lists when the level health expenditure he is proposing is not enough to meet existing demand.

Alun Cairns Portrait Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
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I note the statistics the hon. Member has shared with the House, but how do they compare to the outcomes that my constituents in Wales face? I would suggest they fare much worse.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
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4 Feb 2020, 2:54 p.m.

Across the piece, some areas in Wales are actually performing better than areas in England. The direction of travel is the right one. If the right hon. Member is so interested in the performance in Wales, he should stand for the Welsh Assembly; he will have the opportunity to do so in the not-too-distant future. I am sure he was aware when he stood for this place that health was a devolved issue.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas
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4 Feb 2020, 2:55 p.m.

I want to raise again the example of Northwick Park Hospital, which serves my constituents. It has not met the four-hour A&E target since August 2015. One of the latest issues responsible for the increasing pressure on waiting times at Northwick Park is the closure of our walk-in services, which were one of the great reforms of the previous Labour Government. Alexandra Avenue, which served my constituency, closed in November 2018, and Belmont health centre, which served the constituency of Harrow East, closed in November 2019. The last walk-in service in the London Borough of Harrow, the Pinn medical centre, which currently is in the constituency of the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds), is also due to close, and yet it is increasingly difficult to get an answer to a request for a meeting to discuss that closure with Ministers or the chief executive of NHS England.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
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4 Feb 2020, 2:56 p.m.

There has to be a correlation between the number of closures my hon. Friend is seeing and his CCG’s debts, which he was referring to earlier. The pressure on frontline services is making these decisions, which it is more and more likely can only impact on performance. I hope that when the Minister responds he will be able to give him the satisfaction of at least a meeting to discuss the issue further.

The funding in the Bill is insufficient to reverse the decline in recent years, let alone deliver the aspirations set out in the long-term plan. It is not just the opinion of Her Majesty’s Opposition that the performance targets cannot be met; NHS England has also made it clear that the core treatment targets cannot be met because of the funding settlement imposed by the Government. And who loses out month after month when performance targets are missed? It is patients. Whether for pre-planned surgery, cancer treatment, diagnostic tests or emergency care, our constituents are waiting longer and longer, often in pain and distress, to access the health services they need. The figures do not lie.

We must remember that the figures are also real people. They are real people stuck on waiting lists: the total number of people on waiting lists in England is now 4.41 million, which is the highest since records began, and up from 4.1 million, when the right hon. Member for West Suffolk first became the Secretary of State. They are real people waiting for treatment: the target to treat 92% of patients within 18 weeks has not been met for four years—not since February 2016—and obviously has never been met by the current Secretary of State. They are real people waiting for cancer treatment: the Prime Minister himself agreed last month that it was unacceptable that the target for treating cancer patients within 62 days of urgent GP referrals had not been met for five years. That is five years of failure. They are people waiting on hospital trolleys: the number of people waiting four hours or more on hospital trolleys reached 98,452 last December, which is not only a 65% increase on the same point the previous year, but the highest on record.

As we heard on Second Reading, the failure to meet these targets has real consequences. Research from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine shows that almost 5,000 patients have died in the past three years because they spent so long on a trolley waiting for a bed in an overcrowded hospital. As we have said several times during our consideration of the Bill, the true increase in funding is about 4.1%—I will not list again all the bodies that agree with that figure—yet the money in the Bill will not be enough.

This is all before last week’s news about the Chancellor looking for 5% savings in all Departments, including this one. That might not affect the figures in the Bill, but there might be cuts across the wider Department that do have a knock-on impact on service delivery. Let us take a look at A&E. There is increased demand on our A&E services, for many reasons, including the years of cuts to social care, but that is not covered in the Bill. Will the 5% cut come from there—if it does, more and more people will be forced into A&E by a collapsing social care system—or from public health, as we have heard previously, which would inevitably store up problems in the short and longer term?

None of this can be said to be likely to have no impact on performance targets, which for too long have been treated as a poor relation by this Government. The Government have widely ignored them, to the extent that they are spending more time dreaming up ways to get rid of them than to meet them. We say that patients deserve better. We will push the new clause to a vote, because we believe it is clear that the Secretary of State will not be able to drive down waiting lists or drive up performance with the level of health expenditure that he proposes to enshrine in law.

Rather than presenting the Bill as a panacea, let us ensure that the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister are held to account for the promises that they make, and that the Secretary of State comes to this place every year to tell us whether, in the Government’s opinion, the funding allocated for that year will be sufficient to meet those performance targets. If it is not, the Government must set out what they are going to do about it. It is simply not good enough to continue, year after year, to have a Government who treat the targets as an inconvenience. If those standards are to mean anything to patients, and if the Government are serious about persuading us that they mean something to them as well, they will have to come here every single year and tell us, unambiguously and with reference to the funding package for this year, how they intend to meet those targets.

Let me now say a few words about new clause 5 and inflation. I am conscious that a number of other Members wish to speak, so I will be fairly brief. The new clause is a safeguard to deal with a mistake made in the Bill. Because the amounts are presented in cash rather than real terms, the figures may not end up being as big as they at first appear. While inflation is now relatively stable and within a reasonable range of the Bank of England’s target, I do not think that anybody—particularly at this time—can confidently predict the rate at which it will be running at in two, three or four years’ time.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:01 p.m.

Is that not the most critical weakness in the Bill? Given that inflation is expected to rise after Brexit, the figures for 2023-24 are just guesswork. There should be a commitment to £20 billion by that year, in real terms.

Justin Madders Portrait Justin Madders
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4 Feb 2020, 3:01 p.m.

There are indeed many weaknesses in the Bill, which, given that it is so short, is quite an achievement on the Government’s part. That is the point of the new clause. We cannot say with any certainty what the rate of inflation will be in a few years’ time. It is important for funding that is seen as adequate now—at least by Conservative Members, if by no one else—not to be downgraded further as a result of economic turbulence. We have had no guarantees that a different economic picture will change the Government’s stance. Indeed, when on Second Reading we sought assurances that the NHS would still receive the real-terms increases envisaged in the Bill should inflation run at unforeseen levels in the future, no commitments were forthcoming. When pressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), the Secretary of State could not give the cast-iron commitments that are needed by those delivering the services. Even if this is an unsatisfactory settlement, they deserve some certainty that the sums involved will not be eroded by spikes in inflation.

As the Secretary of State said on Second Reading,

“The crucial thing in this Bill is the certainty.”—[Official Report, 27 January 2020; Vol. 670, c. 560.]

We are not sure whether he meant certain failure, because we know that the sums set out in the Bill are not enough to keep up with demand, but the new clause seeks to ensure that the NHS is, at least to some extent, insulated against unforeseen economic shocks. It would act as a safety net in the event that inflation ran above 3.3% for more than six months in any 12-month period. It also requires a statement from the Secretary of State about whether any additional funds will be made available to supplement the sums set out in the Bill. That would at least provide some clarity and certainty about whether there will be any real-terms reduction in funding as a result of a sustained rise in inflation.

Let me finally say a little about new clause 11, and the adequacy of the allotment to NHS England. As I have already made clear, the Bill sets NHS expenditure for the next four years at a level that is not sufficient to put the NHS on a sustainable footing or to improve performance. That is why we are seeking to ensure that the impact of unforeseen changes in the costs of pharmaceutical treatments, medical devices and services—possibly as a result of our leaving the European Union, or of the trade deals that we sign—are reviewed by the Government so that adequate funds are available to meet any uplift, and so that there is no negative impact on health outcomes. Much has been said about the possibilities in new trading arrangements, but not enough about the risks, of which this is only one.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:04 p.m.

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders). We were on opposite Front Benches for many years, but I always had great respect for his detailed understanding of healthcare issues and the integrity of his approach. He once wrote me a private letter. I will not divulge its contents; suffice it to say that it demonstrated his recognition that we are human beings on this side of the House. That was a rare admission from a member of the Labour party, and I am very grateful to him for it.

I will not be supporting the hon. Gentleman’s amendments and new clauses, but I think he is right to raise the issues that he has raised, and I want to propose some different ways of achieving his objectives. I am very pleased that he has raised the issue of mental health and mental health funding, and I therefore wish to speak to amendments 1 and 2 and new clauses 1, 2 and 3.

I think that all hon Members have knocked on the doors of constituents—I did as Health Secretary—and been confronted by people who have been given a totally inadequate service in relation to their mental health or that of their children. One person I met, who was not a constituent, was a very remarkable gentleman called Steve Mallen. He had a son, Edward, who had an extraordinarily promising life in front of him. Edward had secured a place at Cambridge, he was very musical, he had friends; and then, in the year before he was due to go up to Cambridge, he had a six-month period of severe mental illness and ended up killing himself, five years ago this Sunday. I think that all of us have to have people like Edward Mallen at the back of our minds, and to remember, as we enjoy a normal weekend, that for Edward’s family Sunday will be a very, very challenging day.

I believe we could all come up with stories like that. I mentioned Steve Mallen because he has chosen to relive the grief that he feels for his son Edward. He made a promise at Edward’s funeral that he would campaign to ensure that other people received the mental health provision that Edward did not receive. He subsequently set up the Zero Suicide Alliance with an inspirational NHS chief executive called Jo Rafferty, who runs Mersey Care. It is a fantastic project, and I am pleased to say that the Health Secretary has agreed to a meeting to discuss continued funds for the alliance. As we think about people like Edward, it is important to understand just why funding for mental health has not increased at the rate at which it should have, and why we do not have the service provision that we should have.

Stephanie Peacock Portrait Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:07 p.m.

Does the right hon. Gentleman share my concern about the fact that the mental health charity Combat Stress has said it is unable to accept any more new cases? Support for the charity, which helps military veterans, has fallen in the last few years, and 90% of its income consists of public donations.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:07 p.m.

I am well aware of the fantastic work done by Combat Stress, and I think it is important for it to receive the funds that it needs. However, when we look at the root cause of the problems in mental health funding, we see that on both sides of the Committee there is some culpability, and that on both sides it was completely unintentional. I hope that the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth), will forgive me if I start with the other side.

The truth is that when targets were introduced in the 2000s for A&E and elective care waiting times they were hugely effective, but they were introduced only for physical healthcare. As a result, during the austerity period when the budgets of clinical commissioning groups or primary care trusts were under pressure, money was sucked out of community and mental health services. That is at the heart of the problem that has bedevilled mental health care. The position changed in 2012, because a Labour amendment to the Bill that became the Health and Social Care Act 2012 instituted parity of esteem between mental and physical health. We were the first country in the world to do that.

As a Conservative, I am always deeply sceptical about legislating for principles, because I am not totally convinced that it ever changes anything, but that amendment did bring about a significant and very practical change, which I discovered myself as Health Secretary. No Health Secretary and no NHS chief executive ever wants to have to say publicly that the proportion of funding going to mental health has fallen on his or her watch, because that would be a direct contradiction of the principle of parity of esteem. That is why, since this became law, we have seen the proportion of funding of the entire NHS budget going into mental health either stabilised or starting to go up. That should put to rest some of the Opposition’s concerns about the risk of a decreasing proportion of NHS funding going into mental health, but it does not solve the problem.

The issue when it comes to mental health services for our constituencies is not about political will or funding; it is about capacity. We have an enormous number of ambitious plans on mental health. I unveiled one—in 2016, from memory—that said we would treat 1 million more people by 2020 and increase spending by several billion pounds. The mental health “Forward View” had some very ambitious plans, and we had the children and young people’s Green Paper. There are also targets to increase access to talking therapies, which are essential for people with anxiety and depression. But if we do not increase the capacity of the system to deliver these services, in the end we will miss the targets. For example, the children and young people’s Green Paper is an incredibly important programme, with a plan for every secondary school in the country to have a mental health lead among the teaching staff who would have some of the basic training that a GP would have to spot a mild mental health illness, anxiety or depression, or a severe one such as OCD or bipolar, and therefore know to refer it—[Interruption.] I am getting a look. I understand, and I will draw my comments to a close—

Steve Double Portrait Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:11 p.m.

No, you are meant to face the Chair.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:11 p.m.

Thank you. I am sorry—I am new to this Back-Bench stuff. Apologies for not facing the Chair. I will now do so more diligently.

The point I wanted to make, Dame Rosie, is simply that the children and young people’s Green Paper requires an increase in the children and young people’s work- force of—from my memory as Health Secretary—9,000 additional people. The CAMHS workforce is actually only 10,000, so the Green Paper alone requires a near doubling of the mental health workforce. Far be it from me to teach experienced Opposition Members how to scrutinise the Government or hold them to account, but if they really want to know whether we are going to deliver on those promises, looking at the workforce numbers in children and young people’s mental health in the CAMHS workforce is the way to understand whether we are going to be able to deliver those extra commitments.

Mark Tami Portrait Mark Tami
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4 Feb 2020, 3:12 p.m.

Is not that the key point? Young people’s experience of CAMHS on the ground is that they just cannot get an appointment. Rather than being seen in the early stages, as they should be, they often get seen only when they have become suicidal or have tried to commit suicide. That is the wrong way round.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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The hon Gentleman is absolutely right. On both sides of the Chamber, we are totally committed to the NHS and totally committed to transforming mental health services, but I am afraid that young people are regularly turned away from CAMHS and told, “You are not ill enough yet. Come back when things get worse.” Why is that such a tragedy? Because half of all mental health conditions become established before the age of 14, and the way to reduce the pressure on the NHS is to intervene early. That is what does not happen.

David Simmonds Portrait David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:13 p.m.

In support of what my right hon. Friend has said, I think that one of this Government’s great initiatives in respect of children’s mental health in the past decade has been the work done through the health and wellbeing boards. I know that this was strongly supported by him when he was Secretary of State and by other Ministers since. Every local authority, using its connections with the schools and general practitioners in its local area, has a plan that reflects local need. This has evolved over the years to change the commissioning priorities at local level, which is reflected in what is purchased from NHS providers to address local need. I offer as an example an online counselling service that has been introduced to serve my constituents. The feedback from young people is that it is tremendously more accessible than what was there previously, and it is a lot less expensive than the type of services previously being commissioned. That demonstrates the commitment we have on the Government Benches to addressing children’s mental health.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:15 p.m.

My hon. Friend has huge experience of this in local government, and he is absolutely right. The big surprise for me when we were conceiving of the children and young people’s Green Paper was the willingness of NHS professionals to accept that the people who know the kids best are their teachers, rather than GPs, because the teachers see them every day and are probably going to be better at spotting a mental illness and being able to do something about it.

Barbara Keeley Portrait Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:16 p.m.

I would like the right hon. Gentleman to consider whether he supports an important proposal that we put forward at the general election. It was that there should be a trained counsellor in every school to spot mental health problems. Putting that burden on to teachers and others in the teaching profession is the wrong way forward. In Wales, we have the experience that having trained counsellors in schools relieves the pressure on CAMHS. If we want to take children’s mental health seriously and relieve the pressure on CAMHS, we should do this. I have a couple of schools in my constituency that have trained counsellors, and it really helps. The other thing that we proposed was to have a mental health hub in every local authority area, so that children and their families in crisis would have somewhere to go where there would be professionals and charities that work in mental health. Those ideas that we put forward really should be considered, and I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman supports them.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:16 p.m.

They are both interesting ideas. The plan at the moment is that resource will be given to schools for a teacher to volunteer to devote a proportion of their time to this, and that there will be funding for them to do so, similar to the way in which schools have a special educational needs co-ordinator who is a teacher devoted to the special needs of the pupils in that school. I personally would have no objection if that were a separate counsellor, but this needs to be a resource inside the school—someone who is regularly at the school and who knows the children there. That is the important thing.

With permission, Dame Rosie, I would like to comment on some of the other amendments and on some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston. He rightly talked about the issues around maternity safety, and I agree that it is vital that we continue the maternity safety training fund. That is not directly the subject of one of his amendments, but it is indirectly connected to it. Twice a week in the NHS, the Health Secretary has to sign off a multi-million pound settlement to a family whose child has been disabled for life as a result of medical negligence. What is even more depressing is that there is no discernible evidence that that number is going down. The reason for that is that when such tragedies happen, instead of doing the most important thing, which is learning the lesson of what went wrong and ensuring that it is spread throughout the whole country, we end up with a six-year legal case. It is impossible for a family with a child disabled at birth to get compensation from the NHS unless they prove in court that the doctor was negligent. Obviously, the doctor will fight that. That is why we still have too much of a cover-up culture, despite the best intentions of doctors and nurses. This is the last thing they want to do, but the system ends up putting them under pressure to do it. That is why we are not learning from mistakes. I am afraid that that is the same thing that was referred to in the Paterson inquiry report that was published today: the systemic covering up of problems that allowed Mr Paterson’s work to carry on undetected for so long. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston is absolutely right on that.

I think it is a fair assessment of safety in the NHS to say that huge strides have been made in the past five or six years on transparency. It is much more open about things that go wrong than it used to be, and that is a very positive development. But transparency alone is not enough. We have to change the practice of doctors and nurses on the ground, and that means spreading best practice. Unfortunately, that is not happening, which is why, even after the tragedies of Mid Staffs, Morecambe Bay and Southern Health, we are facing yet another tragedy at Shrewsbury and Telford—I see my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) in her place, and she has campaigned actively on that issue. The big challenge now is to think about ways to change our blame culture into a learning culture.

Jerome Mayhew Portrait Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)
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I declare an interest in that, a long time ago, I was a personal injury barrister, including in cases of medical negligence. Does my right hon. Friend think a possible solution to the resistance to blame in the national health service might be the adoption of a no-fault compensation scheme much like that in the personal injury sphere in New Zealand, for example?

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:22 p.m.

My hon. Friend makes an important suggestion. We considered such a thing when I was at the Department of Health and Social Care, but we decided that it would be very expensive. One of the tragedies is that many people who suffer actually make no legal claim because they are so committed to the NHS, so we have a system that gives huge amounts of money to one group of people and nothing at all to those who decide that they do not want to sue the NHS.

We need to look at tort reform, because most barristers and lawyers working in this field want the outcome of their cases to be that the NHS learns from what went wrong and does not repeat it. Unfortunately, that is not what happens with the current system. The involvement of lawyers and litigation causes a defensive culture to emerge, and we actually do the opposite. We do not learn from mistakes, and that is what we now have to grip and change.

I want to say something positive, because if we do change that we will be the first healthcare system in the world to do it properly. We are already by far the most transparent system in the world, mainly because people in this place are always asking questions about the NHS—and rightly so. Healthcare systems all over the world experience the same problem. It is difficult to talk openly about mistakes because one can make a mistake in any other walk of life and get on with one’s life, but if someone dies because of the mistake, that is an incredibly difficult thing for the individuals concerned to come to terms with. That is why we end up on this in this vicious legal circle.

On capital to revenue transfers, I was a guilty party during my time as Health Secretary. There were many capital to revenue transfers because we were running out of money, so capital budgets were raided. I fully understand why the Opposition wanted to table amendment 3, but I respectfully suggest that the trouble is that it would result not in more money going into the NHS but in more money going back to the Treasury from unspent capital amounts. The real issue of capital projects is getting through the bureaucratic processes that mean that capital budgets are actually spent.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
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4 Feb 2020, 3:23 p.m.

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing the chairmanship of the Health and Social Care Committee, and I look forward to joining him on the Liaison Committee. He is a former Secretary of State, so he surely understands and appreciates that this Bill has a significant impact on Scotland, because it will affect our budgets through the Barnett consequentials. Does he think it is right that we are excluded from tabling or even voting on any amendments?

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:24 p.m.

I do, because this Bill about the NHS in England. It would be nice if we occasionally had a word of thanks, because the Bill will result in a lot more money being made available for the NHS in Scotland. The hon. Gentleman should, if I may say so, welcome that, because I think that will be as welcomed among the Scots as it will be welcomed by the English.

My point about capital to revenue transfers is that it is a big deal to get a hospital building project off the ground. So many get delayed because hospital management teams are very busy. They may have struggling A&E departments and are trying to meet other targets and to deal with safety issues—whatever it is—and they do not have the management resource to invest in putting together the case that, quite rightly, the Treasury and the Department of Health and Social Care demand is extremely rigorous and thorough. That is why things get delayed. If we want to ensure that these 40 hospitals get built, the Government should consider a central team at the Department of Health and Social Care to put at the disposal of hospitals that we want to build extensions or new buildings, so that they can actually navigate those hurdles—[Interruption.] I am getting nods from the very capable Minister for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), so that might be under consideration.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the former Secretary of State for giving way. I admire his admitting his role in converting capital to revenue, and I am sure he regrets that he was unable to build the hospital we need in Stockton to close the health inequality gaps in our society. If he has any influence left in Government, perhaps he will have a word in some ears and say, “They really do need a new hospital in Stockton-on-Tees.”

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:25 p.m.

I can be honest with the hon. Gentleman and say that I regret not being able to build lots of hospitals around the country in that period, because funding was short. Now, however, we are in a different situation. It is important that we build these extra hospitals, but there will be some big challenges in ensuring that we do so.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I welcome his suggestion of a central design team, because the NHS is over 70 years old and we seem repeatedly to reinvent the wheel. Does he recognise that it is not just about building new hospitals, because maintenance has also been allowed to slide? There are leaking roofs and leaking sewers, and patients are still in hospitals that are basically not fit for use. Maintenance is most urgent.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
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4 Feb 2020, 3:25 p.m.

I agree with the hon. Lady. Maintenance is a big issue in many hospitals. A number of hospitals are still essentially prefab buildings that should have been torn down a long time ago, and there are others where maintenance can solve the problem. I think we have to attack all of that, and I welcome the fact that there is a real commitment from the Government to do so.

Finally, I want to talk about new clause 4, which relates to whether the Government are giving enough to the NHS to meet the current waiting time targets for elective care, A&E, cancer and so on. I welcome the Opposition’s focus on this matter, because the public absolutely expect us to get back to meeting those targets. It was an important step forward for the NHS that we did bring down waiting times, and I have often credited the previous Labour Government for that happening, as I hope the Labour party will credit this Government for the focus on safety and quality in the wake of Mid Staffs. However, as we focus on safety and quality, I would not want to lose the achievements that were made on waiting times, because it is fundamental to all patients that they do not have to wait too long for care. Indeed, waiting times themselves can be a matter of patient safety.

David Simmonds Portrait David Simmonds
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4 Feb 2020, 3:27 p.m.

My right hon. Friend mentioned targets and people getting access to care. The hon. Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) referenced Pinn Medical Centre, which is in my constituency, and the impact on Northwick Park Hospital in his constituency. This is a really good example of when the issue is not with the total sum of funding but with how the NHS is spending it. If the system can afford £300 to pay for each A&E attendance, I am sure it can afford £70 for those patients to attend a walk-in centre instead. This is not about an arms race and who can spend the most, but about who can bring the most focus to spending the money in the way that benefits patients and our constituents the greatest.

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend neatly makes the point that I was hoping to make next. I will elaborate on the brilliance of his insight and simply say that when we think about waiting times it is very important that it is not just a debate about money. I appreciate that the Bill is about money, and that is why amendments have been tabled about money, but I want to give the example of the annual cycle of winter crises that we seem to have in the NHS now. I looked up the figures and, over the past five years that I was doing the job, in the first year I gave the NHS £300 million to avoid a winter crisis; in the second year, £400 million; in the third year, £700 million; in the fourth year, £400 million; and in the fifth year, £400 million. In four of those five years, we still had a winter crisis. That is because in the end it is not about money as much as it is about capacity.

If we do not have the additional doctors and nurses available to provide the care that we want to be provided, money will disappear very quickly and we will not see any benefit for it. If we want to get back to those waiting time standards—and no one would want to do that more than I do—we have to look at the issue of capacity, and in two areas in particular.

First, are we actually training enough additional doctors and nurses? I introduced some big increases—a 25% increase in doctors being trained—and of course because it takes seven years to train a doctor, they will not start to come through until towards the end of this Parliament. The Government have announced a big increase in the number of nurses that they want to recruit, but training new nurses takes three years. Looking at whether those numbers are right will be absolutely essential if we are to break the cycle of winter crises. Essential to that is to ensure that we have an independent estimate of the number of doctors, nurses, physiotherapists and allied health professionals that the NHS actually needs and a Government who sign up to training those numbers.

If that number is the result of a negotiation between the Treasury and DHSC, the Treasury will negotiate those numbers down because it always sees training more doctors and nurses as building up a cost pressure for the future. Actually, it is the opposite: if we do not train enough doctors and nurses, the NHS ends up having to pay extortionate agency rates and locum doctor rates, and it ends up costing the NHS more. I would like an answer to the question of whether we are even now training enough doctors and nurses, and I would like to know what the NHS actually believes is the answer to that question. I would also like to know that the Government are committed to doing that, and I very much hope that when we have the people plan, there will be an independently audited projection of the number of doctors and nurses required.

The final point I wanted to make is about—

Jeremy Hunt Portrait Jeremy Hunt
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It was always the final point, and it is very much the final point.

The other area that is essential for capacity is the social care system. My hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) talked about how money can be wasted. One of the biggest wastes of money is that we pay for people to be in hospital beds, which cost three times as much as care home beds, because we do not have the capacity in the social care system. It is very important that we encourage people to save for the future and protect people against losing their homes, but if we want to see a change in the NHS in the next five years it is fundamental that we increase the ability of local authorities to deliver adult social care to people who cannot afford it. At the moment, they do not have enough to do that, and we must put that right.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:34 p.m.

Finally, here we are, in the English Parliament after all these years. Isn’t it great? The Mace is down, the signs are up, and the dream of David Cameron has finally been realised. For the first time since 1707, English Members of Parliament will get to vote on English legislation to the active exclusion of the rest of us. I wonder if the Minister could have even dreamed, when he and I were but lowly Back-Bench members of the Procedure Committee back in 2015 and scrutinising the EVEL processes, that this is where we would end up today.

On 19 September 2014 David Cameron promised, in response to the independence referendum in Scotland, that we would have English votes for English laws. Three general elections, two Prime Ministers and countless Leaders of the House later, here it is in all its glory. I wonder, given the responses and speeches that we have heard today, whether anyone on the Government Benches really understands what is going on. We are debating clauses and amendments to a Bill that has been certified as being only relevant to England, but as the amendment themselves demonstrate, and as we have heard in speeches, it will have implications for health spending policy across the whole of the United Kingdom—and very serious issues, too—for mental health, for the construction of hospitals, and for the difference between capital and revenue spending on the NHS.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
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I wonder whether, like me, my hon. Friend feels that this English Parliament is actually pretty similar to the usual Westminster Parliament that we do all our business in. Does he agree that the English votes for English laws procedure has been about the most divisive, disruptive and useless procedure ever put into this House? It makes distinctions between classes of Members of Parliament in this House, and what we are doing today is disallowing us to vote on issues that are vital to the Scottish health service. Does he agree that it is a disgrace, and that it must go?

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:34 p.m.

Yes; I absolutely agree. My hon. Friend is right: I barely noticed the difference as this place magically transformed itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England). Incidentally, I do not know whether he remembers, from his time here, whether the Scottish Grand Committee was ever permitted to meet in the Chamber of the House of Commons. I fear it was not, so quite why the English Grand Committee enjoys that privilege and does not have to meet elsewhere in the building or elsewhere in England is kind of beyond me. But my hon. Friend is right that those of us from seats in Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland are, for the first time, being actively excluded from the opportunity to vote on amendments.

The right hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) may also have been a member of the Procedure Committee back in the day; I certainly seem to remember points about the cross-border hospitals being raised. He has constituents in Wales who use hospitals in England that will be affected by this legislation, and he is unable to vote on or amend those provisions.

Neil Gray Portrait Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
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My hon. Friend’s secondment to the English Parliament is going rather well so far, although it is rather similar to the UK one. Does it not distil the ridiculousness of the EVEL procedure that we have before us a Bill that clearly impacts on the funding of the NHS in Scotland, as the former Secretary of State mentioned, and yet the Government have put the Chair in the invidious position of deciding on the issues that we can or cannot vote on, instead of our making that decision about the issues that are important to our constituents?

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:36 p.m.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; and we raised those points five years ago, when the EVEL process was being introduced.

Mark Tami Portrait Mark Tami
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4 Feb 2020, 3:36 p.m.

I have never been a member of the Procedure Committee. The Countess of Chester, which is a foundation hospital, has trustees who are elected from Wales. They are elected and can take part in decision making, but as an elected representative in this place, I cannot, apparently.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:36 p.m.

There we go. We have now had as many Welsh and Scottish Members contributing from the Floor, as Members from elsewhere in the United Kingdom. These points were raised back in the day, on the Procedure Committee, even if it was not the hon. Gentleman who gave that evidence.

This morning, the Prime Minister turned up at the Science Museum in London to launch a conference that is taking place in Glasgow. That probably tells us all we need to know about the Government’s concept of how the United Kingdom works. Four days after the UK leaves the European Union, and the Tory Government choose to display their love for the precious Union on these islands by creating two classes of Member in the House of Commons—those who can amend legislation and those who cannot. Well, as the Chair of the Health Committee asked us to say, “Thank you.” Thank you so much, because the polls are showing that support for independence in Scotland has reached 52% and growing, and that support will not go away. Constituents in Scotland will be watching today’s proceedings, wanting to know why their Members of Parliament are not allowed to vote on amendments that could increase health spending, not just here in England but throughout the United Kingdom.

Labour’s new clause 5 rightly calls for the Government to analyse the effect of inflation on the figures set out in the Bill.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
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4 Feb 2020, 3:37 p.m.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as I mentioned earlier, the fact that inflation could make these cash rises meaningless makes it very difficult for the Scottish Government to predict what Barnett consequentials they can count on in 2023 and 2024, so it should be committed to in real terms, not just cash terms?

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:38 p.m.

Yes; my hon. Friend is absolutely right, and we would be very happy to support new clause 5 if the procedures of the House allowed us to. It is absolutely crucial to what the Bill is trying to achieve.

We know it is a showpiece Bill anyway, but the Government are getting a showpiece English Parliament out of it as well. Of course, the terms of the money resolution are so restrictive that amendments intended to amend the figures in the Bill are completely out of order. The Labour party tried that—that point was raised by more than one Opposition Member at Second Reading, and I am not sure that Ministers could answer it.

Labour’s amendment 3 prevents capital funding from being transferred to revenue streams. That is hugely important as well, because any increases in the revenue funding—the figures on the face of the Bill—have to come from new money. Otherwise, the whole thing is pointless: it is just shuffling things around. It is new money that would give rise to Barnett consequentials, and that is where our interest comes in.

New clause 4, on performance targets, makes exactly the same point, and we support that as well. That is also relevant to us.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
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4 Feb 2020, 3:40 p.m.

It is often cast up here that the Government in Scotland are not spending all the Barnett consequentials on health, but they do. The problem is that although the Government here keep talking about the rise they are giving to the NHS, there are cuts to public health and social care, and there have been cuts to education and training. In Scotland, we still take the whole responsibility of a health Department seriously.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:39 p.m.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right on that. The Scottish National party has always pledged—we have done this throughout our time in government—that any Barnett consequentials that arise from health spending in England get passed to the NHS in Scotland. Any time the figures set out in this Bill increase, those Barnett consequentials would be expected to fall to the Scottish block grant, so it is well within the interests of Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to seek to amend this Bill. Our own unselectable suggestions that appear on the amendment paper require analysis of what would happen if health spending per capita in England and Wales was raised to the level in Scotland. That was part of our manifesto commitment; by raising health spending in England, we would also raise spending across the United Kingdom. But here and now, on the Floor of the House of Commons, in the UK Parliament, that idea cannot be tested, voted on or even, technically, discussed.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
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4 Feb 2020, 3:41 p.m.

Does my hon. Friend agree that “per capita” is a much more informative way of describing spending, because demand is increasingly rapidly, with an ageing population that is not ageing healthily, and just talking about the headline numbers does not show whether the amount provided for each person is sufficient to provide their services?

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:42 p.m.

I thank my hon. Friend for that. The contributions she is making demonstrate precisely why Members from Scotland should have been allowed to participate fully in this stage of the Bill and the whole process.

If the official Opposition choose to press any of their amendments this afternoon, we will seek to express our views, on behalf of our constituents, by walking through the Lobby. We will walk past the signs that say, “England only” and if the Tellers from the Government Whips team choose not to count us, that will be their decision. Of course they will also have to discount any of their own colleagues from Scotland and Wales who deliberately or accidentally end up in the Lobby; perhaps that is also an argument for getting rid of this ridiculous voting Lobby system, but I appreciate that that is for another day.

The Government could have avoided this situation, by allowing proper time for a Report stage, where Members from Scotland and elsewhere could move amendments. They could have committed the Bill upstairs to a Public Bill Committee, but they chose to convene an English Parliament here in the Chamber of the House of Commons, which is supposed to represent the whole of the UK.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
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4 Feb 2020, 3:42 p.m.

My hon. Friend has taken over the EVEL mantle with great aplomb. I understand that the “England only” signs are already in the Lobby, and this in the UK Parliament of Great Britain and Northern Ireland! What does that say to people from Scotland? What does it say, given that this Bill determines so much of our health spending in Scotland? Surely the days of EVEL have to come to an end. We cannot go on like this. This is the Parliament for everybody across the United Kingdom; it is not their Parliament to squat in.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:42 p.m.

It really does not feel like that at the moment, does it? Hear no EVEL, see no EVEL, speak no EVEL should be the mantra, because my hon. Friend is right; this might not be the last time.

Drew Hendry Portrait Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to speak in the English Parliament for the first time. Does he agree that one way to get around this whole EVEL conundrum is simply for the English Parliament to be made officially an English Parliament and then we can all have our own national Parliaments in our own countries?

Rosie Winterton Portrait The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:43 p.m.

Order. I am sure colleagues will appreciate that it is important that we actually talk about the Bill.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
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4 Feb 2020, 3:43 p.m.

I wholeheartedly agree, Dame Rosie. I have addressed the amendments that we have an interest in, and I am contextualising why they are relevant to our constituents, but points are being extremely well made by my colleagues. There is a simple solution to this, which we in the SNP have been promoting for 84 years, since 1934: Scotland can become an independent country and England can have the Parliament that it wants. As my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) says, with the greatest respect for the Speaker, it should not be for the Chair or for the Government to decide what does and does not apply to Members from different parts of the UK. My job and that of my colleagues is to look at each measure before this House and determine for ourselves whether it is relevant to our constituents and act accordingly. Today, we are being actively prevented from doing that. There are amendments and new clauses on the amendment paper that we deem to be of interest to people in Scotland, which would take forward commitments in our manifesto, but we will not be able to vote for them. That is not a precious Union. That is not a partnership of equals. That is not leading instead of leaving. It is not something that is going to be sustainable for much longer, and 52% of people in Scotland seem inclined to agree.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:45 p.m.

I rise to speak to new clause 9, tabled in my name and those of the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) and my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker). I am pleased that Scotland will have its say, at least with regard to this new clause.

Conceptually, the Bill will absolutely do the right thing, because for long-term decision making we need some clarity as to how much money there will be. As I said on Second Reading, my concern is about whether or not the figures are right, and at that point I proposed a formula that would enable the figures to be flexed to properly determine the need and whether the figure would to be sufficient to meet it.

New clause 9 deals specifically with the issue of mental health. There is agreement among all parties that it is crucial that we get mental health right. It is crucial that it is properly respected and properly resourced. Members from all parties have talked about and supported parity of esteem between physical health and mental health. It might be useful—this is not in the new clause, but we are talking about the issue more broadly—if at some point the Government could give some clarity on, if not a formal definition of, what parity of esteem means.

Parity of esteem is not as simple as how much we spend on physical health and how much we spend on mental health. That is clearly a guide and an easier thing to measure, but it seems to me that if we really mean parity, we should look at not only at the inputs—the money we put into the system—but the outputs. Are we seeing an improvement in access to mental health services? Are we seeing fewer people not being referred with the speed that they and the system expect? What outputs should we look for, and should they not be measured in some way in an annual statement?

New clause 9 would go further than the Opposition amendment, which looks to measure inputs and money, and would require the Government to do something broader and ultimately more meaningful to the British people, whichever quarter of the United Kingdom they come from.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
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4 Feb 2020, 3:48 p.m.

We have discussed today, and on many other occasions, the issues relating to child and adolescent mental health and the pressure that young people are under right across the UK, and training for teachers to support them in schools was mentioned. In Scotland, we are putting 350 counsellors into schools. Does the hon. Lady recognise that putting that level of investment into education, where these young people are, would reduce the pressure on CAMHS, and that any assessment would need to include that? If children end up in CAMHS who do not need to be there and who could have been helped earlier, that is also a failure.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
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4 Feb 2020, 3:52 p.m.

The hon. Lady makes an apposite and correct point. We cannot talk about mental health just within the health and care bucket, so to speak. What do we do to help young mums? What do we do in the school environment for youngsters, who are increasingly put under huge pressure, with cases of stress and depression growing daily? What are we doing in the workplace? Historically, mental health has been something that we do not talk about; indeed, people almost dare not to for fear of being demoted and losing their job. There are many aspects of mental health that need to be taken into account if we are truly to deliver parity of esteem. I would like to think that the Government, and perhaps the Minister when he responds to the debate, would acknowledge the breadth of the need to work together across Government Departments so that we look properly at the outcomes and at the different pieces that affect those outcomes, which go well beyond the Minister’s particular brief.

Dan Poulter Portrait Dr Poulter
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. She is making some very good points. An interesting amendment has been tabled by the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) on the need for greater transparency more generally in mental health funding. It is difficult to understand properly what level of investment is currently going into mental health services, be it CAMHS or general adult mental health services. Would it not be a good thing if the Government took on board the spirit of that amendment and published data on mental health spend on an annual basis across all mental health services, from CAMHS and general adult to older adult and learning disability services? That would help to make the argument that money is actually going into what has been a Cinderella service for far too long.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
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4 Feb 2020, 3:50 p.m.

My hon. Friend is right in that the things that are relevant to mental health cannot exclude the budgets in other parts of the system. He is absolutely right, as the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) is, that these things need to be looked at together. Yes, I certainly agree that a written report that sets out what money is being spent where would be very welcome, but I guess that my amendment goes beyond that and says that we should be sure that we are getting something for that money, rather than simply putting in that money and not having any grasp as to whether it is actually making a difference, which is crucial.

John Redwood Portrait John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:52 p.m.

I should like to reinforce that point. I in my constituency, as she in hers no doubt, have need that should be tackled and that requires support and treatment, but it is important that it is worthwhile treatment under the right protocol so that things get better. I would value much more information on who is being treated and whether the treatment is working rather than more information on money.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 3:52 p.m.

That point is extremely well made. Let me say, if I may, that there is also a challenge for any Government to be able to properly ascertain what the actual need is. There is a lot of hidden need. In rural communities such as mine, the real challenge lies with isolated elderly people and with lone workers—whether it be a farmer or a policeman. We know that farmers have the highest rate of suicide of any profession. Much of that mental health challenge is not understood or measured, which makes it critical that we look at that need and then, as my right hon. Friend sets out, make sure that what we do properly meets that need. He is absolutely right.

Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)
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4 Feb 2020, 3:53 p.m.

I agree with the hon. Lady’s point about measuring outputs as well as inputs, but does she agree that one of the big challenges with CAMHS is the real dearth of data? There are many gaps in the data that is collected. I make this point advisedly, because there is another challenge in gathering more data. I have been lobbied in my own constituency by a charity supporting children and young people with mental health issues. Its funding has been put under threat by NHS England unless it starts to report the date of birth of the young people accessing its service and other information, which then undermines the anonymity that it guarantees to those children and young people, so reporting on the outputs is not actually that straightforward.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Lady makes a very good point—I think there are probably two points there. The first is what we should be measuring and when, and the second is about data and the privacy issue. The points are related, but separate. The first one, which is about measurement, is a point very well made. Certainly, the point at which my constituents are counted as being in the box and in need and being referred for mental health can be very far down the line from their first presentation. The figures will often not properly represent the number of people who are actually in need, so I think she is right that we need to be clear at what point we measure an individual coming into the system. I am not clear from what I have heard anecdotally that it is. Some clarity and perhaps an investigation into that would be very helpful. The hon. Lady’s point about privacy is a much broader issue, and I think it would be beyond the scope of this debate to look at it now. The point was well made, but it is a much bigger point for another day.

Through new clause 9, I am asking for an annual report that would show how mental health provision has improved. Such a report would state how we identified what we included in the mental health bucket that I mentioned; how we identified who is in need; how we measured whether that individual received an intervention, and whether any such intervention was timely; whether the individual’s condition has improved or got better; and how any improvement has been assessed, because that can be a very difficult question. I appreciate that for many individuals with mental health concerns, these are lifelong conditions. We would therefore not simply be measuring whether somebody is “cured”, but looking at the level of improvement and the extent to which the intervention has helped—or not helped—that particular individual. It is very complicated.

My new clause would require the Government to look specifically at how we are going to measure the extent to which we have been able to prevent mental health problems. Specifically, we need to start looking at the support we give in schools, to pregnant mothers and in many other situations. This provision would also require information on how we have diagnosed mental health problems. Too often in constituents’ cases, I find that it is only when a diagnosis is finally and formally made that there is any intervention or help. I have heard from a number of parents of young children and teenagers who have faced problems such as eating disorders and attempted suicide, but much to my concern and that of the parents, as no diagnosis has yet been made—because they cannot get an appointment and so on—the individual youngster who is self-harming is not yet considered to have a mental health problem. The consequence is that they do not get the support and assistance they need, so diagnosis is very important.

Steve Brine Portrait Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I support what my hon. Friend is saying in her new clause about outputs. This is an issue that I tried to address—and failed, I readily admit—when I was the primary care Minister. She will be aware of the NCT’s Hidden Half campaign, which aims to improve the six-week postnatal check. Does she agree that there are opportunities for the NHS to make an intervention and assessment, but that those opportunities are currently missed? For example, we should be changing the GP contract so that when new mums go for the six-week check with their babies, they get a maternal mental health check at the same time. There are already opportunities, but we are missing them.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Just like physical health checks, which are very much part of the standard GP system, mental health checks should equally be a part of the standard checks that take place when people present at surgeries. I entirely agree.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Does the hon. Member recognise that we all know what we should be doing to look after our physical health—there is a handful of five key points—but that most of us have no idea what we should be doing to look after our mental health? As well as talking about primary care in schools and workplaces and public campaigns, we should all be being taught how to develop our own resilience and how to look after our own mental health better.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 3:59 p.m.

That is one of the best points that I have heard in this debate, and it is extremely well made. However, it is a real challenge trying to help individuals to accept even that they might be vulnerable to mental health problems, because it has been such a taboo—let alone the second stage of learning what we can do to try, as the hon. Lady says, to make ourselves resilient. I am pleased that we are having mindfulness classes across the House, not just for MPs but for our researchers. That is not the total solution, but it is at least a step in the right direction. However, her point is about something much bigger than just an intervention—it relates to a big piece missing from this whole agenda. We spend a lot of time talking about illness and not enough time talking about wellness.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Whitford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 4 p.m.

Is it not particular to mental health that when we use the phrase “mental health” we actually mean illness? We all have mental health, sometimes good and sometimes bad. If we changed the language, it might be easier for people to talk about.

Anne Marie Morris Portrait Anne Marie Morris
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 4 p.m.

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. The challenge, as she recognises, is how we change the language in a way that is accepted and becomes the norm. Part of this is having a much greater focus, as I hope the Secretary of State and his team ultimately will, on wellness, because that is absolutely as important as dealing with the illness when it happens.

We need to remember that in terms of stages of intervention, the whole lifecycle is not just about birth, education and the workplace; it is also about the elderly and veterans, for whom there is often not as much done to identify need and provide support. An older person in a rural area will often have the need but because they are simply out of scope—under the radar—they will, for a very long time, suffer in silence to a point beyond which they cannot be helped. The challenge of mental wellness/illness for older people needs to be a specific focus.

For all that we say, and rightly, about the importance of ensuring that our veterans are properly diagnosed and properly supported, I am certainly conscious of veterans in my constituency who are struggling to get help and support, or even an initial diagnosis. Sometimes the support they need is so complex that they can only get it in London. For somebody who does not have good mental health, the journey from Devon right the way up to London is something they simply cannot conceive of and make a reality.

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for sitting and listening to my thoughts, and for understanding my approach in terms of looking at this in a much more holistic way and seeing how we might measure and report on it so that we can demonstrate to people that we are making progress on parity of esteem. We should look at inputs as well as outputs. I look forward with a great deal of interest to his reply on the points that have been made, particularly on outputs in mental health.

Preet Kaur Gill Portrait Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 4:03 p.m.

I rise to speak to the amendments in my name and the names of my colleagues.

As we have all heard, our NHS needs to be properly resourced in both physical and mental health, but far too often patients are losing out under this Government, with longer waiting times, a huge increase in cancelled operations, and crumbling hospitals. Colleagues have already raised these important issues. I urge the Government to accept the amendments in the name of the Leader of the Opposition as a real signal of their intent to reverse the damage that their party has done to our national health service over the past 10 years.

My amendments focus specifically on mental health. The Government have made much of the need to ensure parity of esteem. This would mean us valuing mental health equally with physical health and adopting an approach that tackles it using the same standards that we expect for physical health patient treatment as a template for treatment that we provide for mental health patients.

I have heard warm words from the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State and Ministers about the importance of mental health and the growing need to tackle mental ill health as an urgent priority, but I have not yet seen that wholehearted commitment manifest itself in actions to tackle the situation we are in. The British Medical Association found that the mental health workforce has had little growth over the last 10 years. The Royal College of Psychiatrists found that the rate of unfilled NHS consultant psychiatrist posts in England has doubled in the last six years. The first briefing paper from the Centre for Mental Health’s Commission for Equality in Mental Health found that mental health inequalities are closely linked to wider injustices in society. Far too many patients with a mental illness are still being sent hundreds of miles away from home.

By accepting the amendments in my name, the Government would show that they are willing to be transparent about the way they go about achieving their long-stated aim of parity of esteem. The Government have already shown, with the presentation of this Bill, that they think it is a good idea to commit, in law, to a minimum allotment that the Secretary of State will make to the health service in England in each financial year for the next four years. That is designed to show that their promise is legally binding and can be scrutinised by Parliament and the public if they do not reach those targets.

To ensure that our mental health services are properly resourced and truly responsive to the various complex conditions that people present with, the public need to know how much is being spent, including how much is being proposed, and what happens in practice. That is all my amendments seek to do—they would provide Parliament and the public with the opportunity to compare the proposed allotment with the final allotment across different years.

Of course, that is not enough, and it is clear that additional resources for mental health services are only one part of the answer to tackling the mental health problems in this country. We know that education and training services are essential to bring about the necessary increase in the workforce. We know that local government provides significant elements of mental health support through public health, youth services, housing and social care, and two thirds of schools fund their own mental health support. We also know that the Government’s roll-out of universal credit will exacerbate mental health inequalities, which all too often relate to people’s economic and social circumstances. This is not the time to go into those in detail, but I urge the Government to remember the need for those essential services to have a long-term funding settlement and, in the case of social care, an agreed basis for future financing. With ambitious targets to meet in the long-term plan, there is a risk that resources will be diverted from other areas of mental health support to achieve compliance.

I would like to invite colleagues across the House to join me on Thursday for my adjournment debate on Children’s Mental Health Week, which is this week, to discuss these issues further. I know what a commitment to transparency on mental health spending would mean for all those suffering mental ill health and those fighting for them. I hope that the Secretary of State will accept amendment 1 and new clause 1, to ensure that mental health services get a fair deal from the legislation and that pledges made by the Government and NHS England are realised in practice.

Bim Afolami Portrait Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 4:04 p.m.

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, because it is a rare one in so far as there is quite a lot of agreement across the Committee on the substance of it. There appears to be agreement—I await an intervention if anybody disagrees with this—that increasing funding for the NHS is a good thing, that it is good that mental health is a Government priority and that it is very important to establish what parity of esteem means in practical terms.

I would like to take this opportunity to describe what I have seen in my constituency in terms of the importance of mental health and how the increased funding will make a practical difference. One way in which the funding will make a difference is with mental health support teams. There are mental health support teams in 25 areas in the country. Hertfordshire was picked as one of those 25 areas, and we have two teams—one in my constituency, and one just outside it—that effectively piloted a hub-and-spoke model. As the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Preet Kaur Gill) said, it is Children’s Mental Health Week, and the aim of that model is to ensure that young people get better mental health support in and around their school, working in conjunction with the NHS.

As I have seen in my constituency and everywhere I go, when I speak to young people, one of the first things they ask me is, “How can we improve mental health?” Whenever I have spoken to young people, their teachers or local NHS staff, they say this model has the potential, as it is rolled out and developed over the coming months and years, to make a real, fundamental difference. If people are looking for the practical impact of our increased funding for mental health, these teams are one way in which we are already starting to make a difference, not just in my constituency but across the country.

I would like to mention a couple of charities I am involved with that are starting to work in an integrated way with the NHS in improving young people’s mental health. There is a charity called GRIT—a word in politics that we should all remember—or Growing Resilience in Teens. It was set up by a fantastic doctor in Hitchin called Dr Louise Chapman, and it does what it says on the tin: it is about growing resilience in mental health.

As politicians, when it comes to legislation or speaking to each other in the Chamber or outside, we think often about pounds and pence and talk about structures such as hospitals and stuff that can be measured in a very easy way, or at least what we think is an easy way. However, growing resilience is one of the things we need to ensure the NHS does more effectively. Not just in mental health, but particularly in mental health, growing resilience in our young people is an integral part of prevention. The former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), talked about that in his speech, saying that half of mental health problems are established before a young person is 14.

We need to grow resilience among young people to future-proof each and every one of us, and our communities and our society, against serious mental health problems in the future, at the same time as investing in mental health services such as CAMHS, which has already been mentioned several times in this debate. However, we need to do both: to grow resilience and to improve the institutional frameworks. Again, that is what the money this Bill is providing will go towards.

Another charity is called Tilehouse Counselling, which again is based in Hitchin. I do not mean to say that Hitchin has all the charities in my constituency, but in this area Hitchin is a real regional leader and, indeed, a national leader. Tilehouse Counselling provides counselling services to young people, and young people often find themselves at Tilehouse when CAMHS does not have the capacity.

I urge the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries), who is on the Treasury Bench—she knows this because everybody knows how much she cares about the NHS, how much she knows about it and her own personal experience in it as a professional—to use the money provided by this Bill to increase the workforce and to improve the state of CAMHS so that it can treat more people. Again, that means helping the mental health hubs to work with young people and the education system to improve prevention and, when mental health intervention is needed later on if things have got more serious, making sure that CAMHS has more capacity. Again, the money in this Bill will help to provide that.

Another new organisation in my constituency is called GoVox. It has already been in discussions with NHS Digital, and NHSX, about online ways of improving mental health for young people. Increasing funding matters, and it is always worth stating and restating in the Bill that these are minimum numbers, not maximum numbers. This money is hugely needed, and it should make a big practical difference.

On the pleas from Opposition Members—in relation to new clauses 1, 2 and 9, and a few others, which say that the Government must report on this or must do that—I urge the Minister for Health to commit in his response to showing how he and the Government will improve the existing reporting procedures and mechanisms so that the House can be kept fully informed. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) spoke about how Members of Parliament often feel distant, not from information about funding, but from outcomes. Will the Minister explain how the Government could improve that delivery mechanism, as that would allay some concerns across the Committee?

New clause 10 is fairly ridiculous as it is a rehash of the argument that we had at the back end of last year—[Interruption.] It has not been selected. You agree with me, Dame Rosie, so I do not need to talk about how ridiculous it is. [Interruption.] Forgive me. Dame Rosie has no view, and it is important to put that on the record.

In the context of the Bill, we must remember what we are here for. I speak with generosity to Labour Members who I know care deeply about the NHS, but we are not here to try to score points; we are here to improve the state of our NHS. Everybody recognises that this is a good Bill, yet many of the amendments appear designed to create some sort of artificial dividing line between Members on this side of the Committee and that side, regarding who cares the most about the NHS or mental health. I urge all hon. Members to remember that the purpose of this Bill is to increase funding to our NHS and improve our mental health services, and I therefore do not support the amendments.

Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)
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4 Feb 2020, 4:14 p.m.

I wish to speak to new clause 2, which is tabled in my name and those of my Liberal Democrat colleagues. As you know, Dame Rosie, I intended to push the new clause to a vote, but I understand that time pressures will not allow me to do so. I am disappointed by that, but I will be pressing the Government on this issue time and again. I want them to make it a high priority and to put it at the forefront of their policy making and commitments to the mental health of children and young people.

It is a pleasure to hear such a unified voice across the Committee about the importance of mental health, and there is a clear commitment to parity of esteem and to ensuring that mental health across the board gets the funding it deserves. I am therefore encouraged by the amendments, many of which I and my colleagues will support.

New clause 2 focuses specifically on the crisis—I used that word advisedly—in the provision of child and adolescent mental health services. It places a spotlight on the chronic underfunding of CAMHS, and seeks to encourage the Government and NHS England to deliver on their promises and improve transparency and accountability on those priorities.

Before I arrived in this place, I was aware of this significant and pressing issue. Less than two months since my election, however, I am utterly horrified by the cases of children and young people in crisis that cross my desk on a weekly basis—or more often—either through my surgery, my inbox, or anecdotally when speaking to acquaintances and contacts in my constituency and well beyond. New clause 2 seeks to make the Government and NHS England more accountable for the funding that they provide annually to CAMHS. That is very much in the spirit of the Bill. The Government are seeking to codify their promised expenditure on the NHS, and the new clause seeks simply to do the same thing in this important area, given that a number of welcome commitments have been made about CAMHS spending.

There are concerns that that funding is not reaching the frontline. Indeed, the evidence is clear. Just last week a report by the Children’s Commissioner stated that many CCGs are spending less than 1% of their mental health budget on children and young people. In 2017, the CQC revealed that CCGs have prioritised adult mental health over CAMHS because of the need to ration services. Other amendments seek to talk about mental health more broadly, but that is the reason why we need a particular spotlight on children and young people’s services.

The phrasing of new clause 2 seeks to ensure accountability against the ambitions of the long-term plan. Subsection (2) would help to demonstrate whether the promises on the growth of CAMHS spending outstripping mental health spending, and NHS spending across the board, are kept.

Subsection (3) shines a spotlight on regional variability. The Children’s Commissioner’s report last week talked about the enormous postcode lottery of spending on services. The numbers cited were staggering. In terms of low-level services, they ranged from 72p in some areas to £172 per child. On specialist services, they ranged from £14 to £191. We all expect some level of variation, but I am sure the Government would agree that that level of variation is utterly unacceptable. It needs to be tracked very publicly, so that spending and services can be improved to meet need.

Why is that so critical? As has been stated by various Members, half of all mental health problems are established by the age of 14. We know that 1.25 million children and young people had a mental health disorder in 2017. We have heard that since 2010 there has been an increase of 330% in admissions to A&E of children and young people diagnosed with a psychiatric condition. We know that only one in four children and young people is being seen by a specialist when they need to.

It is very easy to cite statistics, but behind them are individuals: children and young people and their stories. The stories I have heard are of teenagers self-harming, teenagers who are suicidal, teenagers who are a danger to themselves and their families, and young people who are excluded from school or are taking themselves out of school because of their mental health conditions. One piece of correspondence I received from a parent talked about her 17-year-old being referred for specialist treatment last November. He might be assessed, if he is lucky, in March and he will not get treatment for four to six months after that. That cannot be right. This child has at times been suicidal. I have also had a case of a 10-year-old with tier 3 needs waiting a similar amount of time for the initial choice assessment, who will be waiting a similar amount of time again for treatment.

We have had many plans, many vision documents and many strategies setting out wonderful lofty ambitions for the NHS. As I said, the long-term plan has some very laudable commitments on CAMHS. The Bill seeks to put into law what the Government promise on NHS spending. New clause 3 simply seeks to put into law the Government’s promises on spending on children and young people’s mental health disorders. I cannot press new clause 3 to a Division, but I very much hope that the Government will accept the spirit of my new clause and look to see what measures they can put in place to improve transparency and accountability. We owe it to those children and young people, because this really is a crisis and they need us to step up to the plate.

I will end my remarks with a quote from the mother of the 17-year-old I referred to earlier, because she puts it far better than I could:

“All these young people are our future and if we do not help them now, we are looking at a bleak future as these young people will end up being isolated from society, lack skills for work and relationships, find employment hard, perhaps even get into crime and ultimately will end up not having fulfilled lives and maybe end up being yet another statistic. We have not got this right and it is not just about the budgets or party politics; we need all of you to work together on this and treat this as an emergency.”

Lucy Allan Portrait Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 4:24 p.m.

What a pleasure it has been to listen to so many excellent speeches. In particular, I want to say how much I value the contribution of the former Secretary of State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt)—I am sure that Ministers will have listened to what he said. I thank everybody who has tabled amendments, which are very thoughtful and well considered. I am particularly grateful for the amendment on patient safety, and again, I am sure that Ministers will have heard what has been said on that issue.

It is a pleasure to speak in a debate where we are not politicising something that matters so much to our constituents and where we are coming together to contribute our experiences, either in our constituencies or professionally. For that reason, I am delighted to be speaking.

I do not support the amendments, however well intentioned, well formulated and well thought out many of them are. However, I would like to speak to the amendment on capital budgets because there are some learning opportunities for the Government in how they spend significant capital investment on hospitals, upgrades and reconfigurations of hospital services. Those upgrades and reconfigurations are indeed happening now, as was set out in the manifesto, but they were also happening before that. My constituency and the county of Shropshire have experienced significant capital investment, but there has been a very difficult, painful and protracted process in trying to bring that forward as something that will benefit the whole community and improve patient care across the county.

I raise that issue because I hope that Ministers will take away from that experience the fact that it is fundamentally wrong to have significant capital investment where local communities are pitched against one another, as has happened in Shropshire. We saw local CCGs propose that Telford should lose all its acute services and be stripped of its A&E and women and children’s services, with them being transferred to another community some 20 miles away that is significantly more affluent and has better health outcomes. In addition, it was intended that that community would also receive £312 million of capital investment in new facilities. I am sure that hon. Members can imagine how that would make our community feel, particularly when it is disadvantaged in many respects. It is a growing new town that will have 200,000 residents in the next 10 years. We have to provide services with equal access for all, because as this Government have said, they are about one thing: levelling up. They are about narrowing health inequalities and ensuring that there is equality of access to health services across our communities. Of course, the NHS has always been about need. Funding in the NHS should follow need.

I will not delay the House too much with further discussion of the situation in my constituency because I believe that my CCGs, after six years of debating this issue, have had another thought about how they might resolve the problem. It will require more Government funding, but they have already made it clear that the proposal that is currently on the table will also require more Government funding. It will provide a fantastic opportunity for us to resolve this situation, which has been ongoing for so long. So, if the Minister is listening to pleas for more capital funding, may I ask that we complete the proposal in Telford, which will be of such value to our community?

There are other learning points that come from the capital investment programme. CCGs and health trusts have a duty—indeed, the Secretary of State has a statutory duty—to narrow health inequalities. We see that across the country where there have been controversial reconfigurations of local hospital trusts and hospital builds. It is not just in Shropshire either; many MPs on both sides of the House have spoken of the need to narrow health inequalities and to ensure that more affluent communities do not benefit at the expense of more disadvantaged ones. This new Government could not tolerate that continuing in areas of disadvantage.

My third and final point is another that many colleagues on both sides of the House have made already. The CCGs, which make these decisions on behalf of communities, are accountable to no one and, regrettably, take no notice of what local communities say. They might conduct a consultation, as with the Shropshire reconfiguration, but they take no notice of what local people say. They certainly take no notice of local representatives—of the MPs and local councils—and sometimes they appear disinclined to take much notice of the Secretary of State. I am very grateful to him for spending a great deal of time trying to resolve this issue, although the CCG was not particularly impressed with his proposal, which I thought was excellent and would have benefited my community.

CCGs often operate as if they were directors of a FTSE 100 company, with all the trimmings but without the checks and balances that shareholders provide. Without accountability we see abuses of power, conflicts of interest and a failure to serve local communities. It is almost impossible to remove a non-performing chief executive or board, and in any event they just pop up somewhere else with their golden handshake and gold-plated pension still intact.

I genuinely believe that we now have a window of opportunity to solve the Shropshire reconfiguration, and I deeply hope that Ministers can help us to bring it to a long overdue conclusion. If we can learn anything from our experience, it is that we have a decision-making structure in the NHS that does not serve the communities it is intended to serve and which is not accountable to us, and if it is not unaccountable to MPs, to local councils or to individual residents and patients, there is a problem. We need a full examination to ensure that what has happened in Shropshire does not happen again. I am hopeful for my constituents and neighbouring Shropshire MPs that there is a solution on the horizon, and one that would be a positive outcome for all our communities.

That said, our communities should not have had to resort to crowdfunding a legal action against the CCG or the Government, or to protests, marches and petitions, and they should not have had to endure six years of uncertainty or to write thousands of letters to their MP. As the Government embark on this welcome capital expenditure programme—a truly historic investment programme that we all welcome on both sides of the House—I hope they will look at what has happened in the NHS Future Fit process in Shropshire and learn the lessons of that experience so that those mistakes are not repeated.

To conclude, I reiterate what a pleasure it is to take part in a debate where everybody is trying to get the best outcome for their constituents, the country and the NHS in terms of the service it delivers to all our constituents.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
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4 Feb 2020, 4:33 p.m.

You, Dame Eleanor, were not in the Chamber when the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) indicated that SNP Members might pass through the Lobby, although of course they will not be counted. I seek your help. I want to make sure that the Government Whips do not get confused by my accent and count my vote on behalf of the people of Stockton North when I support the amendment.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Eleanor Laing)
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The hon. Gentleman asks for clarification and raises a point that I have many times had cause to raise myself, so I am in total sympathy with him, and I am quite sure that his plea has been heard.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
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4 Feb 2020, 4:34 p.m.

I am very grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Amendment 2 concerns spending on mental health services and the Secretary of State’s plans to achieve parity of esteem. Mental illness is often not viewed as a risk to human life, but it is exactly that. In 2018, according to the Samaritans, 6,507 deaths in the United Kingdom were registered as suicides—an increase of 10.9% on the previous year. That means that nearly 7,000 people did not believe that there was help, or another way out of what they were going through.

It can be hard for adults to talk about the feelings that come from being mentally unwell. The words are in their vocabulary, and it may be simple enough to string them together into a sentence, but it is incredibly difficult to say them out loud. I can only imagine how hard it must be for children to express how they are feeling when something is not right. Perhaps they do say the words that are in their heads, but they are not taken seriously. It is a scandal that there are suicidal children as young as 12 who are having to wait more than two weeks for a mental health bed. By not viewing mental illness as life-threatening, we are letting generations down.

There is much debate about what causes mental illness and what is the best form of treatment, but it can take several visits to a GP for people to be taken seriously about not being OK—although many GPs, of course, respond immediately. When parents are fighting for their unwell children to be taken seriously and receive the urgent care and treatment they need, it is horrifying for that to be delayed.

At this stage I should pay tribute to my former colleague Paul Williams, who was the Member of Parliament for Stockton South. He is a GP, and as a member of the Health Committee he spoke extensively about health matters, but locally he took on the child and adolescent mental health services. He knew, as I did because we shared the same area, that it was taking well over two years for young people to be seen by CAMHS. As a direct result of his work, that ended, up to a point, because some children who were due to be seen quickly were actually seen when they should have been. However, those long waits still exist in our area. As we heard earlier from the right hon. Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), the former Health Secretary, sometimes children are just not taken seriously.

It is right for the Secretary of State to answer to the House on exactly what the Department is doing, because this is a matter of life and death. Not only the House but the country needs assurance and answers. The state of mental health services will only get worse unless we take action to deliver what is required. The additional money is more than welcome, but I see the amendment as the first, necessary step to provide the funds that are so desperately needed. Equally important is the ability to monitor what those funds are being spent on, and how.

There are many other services on which people depend heavily, including some that we may take for granted, such as smoking cessation services. There is widespread concern about existing funding for services to help people stop smoking. Nearly a third of local authorities no longer provide specialist “stop smoking” services. Stopping smoking is not just a matter of nicotine patches or vaping; people need behavioural support as well, particularly pregnant women, children, and people who are already unwell. One ward in my constituency has some of the highest incidences of smoking in families—whole families smoking—but we also have some of the highest incidences of smoking during pregnancy, and that is not good for the unborn child.

We cannot afford to lose the progress that we have made. We have made tremendous progress over the years, but we need local services that are effective and properly funded. The Government also need to return to funding the multi-media approach to smoking cessation services. I was particularly pleased to learn last week that research has shown that the ban on smoking in cars when a child is present has produced a 75% drop in children being exposed to cigarette smoke in a car. I led on that issue during my first few years as an MP, through private Members’ Bills and a ten-minute rule Bill. The Bills were unsuccessful, but I was delighted when the Government adopted my clause a few years later. We still need to be ambitious and bold about helping people to quit smoking, but services need the resources. I hope the Minister will commit to ensuring that such services are provided, whether for mental health or for smoking cessation, and that they are fully funded so that we can continue to make real progress in that area.

Finally, I shall turn to the matter of capital. The Minister has already heard me talk about the needs in my own constituency. In one ward—the same one I referred to earlier: the Town Centre ward in Stockton—men live 14 years less than those in the Prime Minister’s constituency. His constituency is getting a new hospital, but there are no plans yet for us. However, I have good news for the Minister, because the plan for our hospital is still sitting there. I met the chief executive of North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust just two weeks ago, and she told me that they were ready to dust off the plans again and see how we could provide a hospital. At the time we asked for £100 million from the Government as a guarantor in order to make the project work. The numbers do work, and the health inequalities need to be addressed.

We need to be able to attract the best doctors and clinicians that we can to address the problems in our society. The heart problems are higher on average than anywhere else in the country. We have smoking problems, as I have mentioned, with their related lung and respiratory problems. We also have the legacy of our heavy industry on Teesside, where men who have now retired are in extremely ill health but sometimes cannot get the support they need because we do not have the experts locally to provide it.

In my final sentences, I appeal to the Minister to meet me and the trust members so that we can sit down and talk about this project.

Edward Argar Portrait The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)
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4 Feb 2020, 4:41 p.m.

indicated assent.

Alex Cunningham Portrait Alex Cunningham
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4 Feb 2020, 4:41 p.m.

I am glad that he is nodding his head. Ten years ago, the Tory-Lib Dem Government cancelled the project, despite the fact that it was a priority for the country and for the national health service, so I hope that we can now have a meeting and actually start to motor on this. I am pleased to see the Minister smiling, and I hope that he can leave me smiling as well.

Suella Braverman Portrait Suella Braverman (Fareham) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 4:43 p.m.

I rise to speak in favour of the clauses in the Bill and against the amendments. I do not think that the latter add anything material, and they ignore the vast improvements in mental health under this Government in recent years. One in four adults will experience mental health illness in their lifetime, and that is obviously a high incidence of mental health illness. It shows the growing concern around this issue as well as a growing awareness, and, I have to add, a growing commitment by today’s Government, but we cannot ignore the fact that there are many challenges in the system and many areas for improvement.

I want to talk briefly about the Government’s record. I fully support their commitment to providing funding for mental health services, which will mean that those services’ funding will increase faster than in other areas of the NHS. I hope that much of that funding will go towards the frontline in teaching and education. Perhaps the Minister will address this in his closing remarks.

I meet many education professionals in Fareham who report an increase in the incidence of mental illness among their young people and finding the cost of providing counselling and support an additional burden on their budgets.

It is important to note that by 2023-24, under the proposals in the Bill, at least an additional 345,000 children and young people under 25 will be able to access support via NHS-funded mental health services. That is a welcome aim, and I am confident that we will meet that target under this landmark funding commitment. That progress is hugely welcome, and I am glad that the Government have made children and young people’s mental health a top priority within the NHS, which is halfway through a major programme to improve access to specialist services, supported by £1.4 billion of funding. I congratulate the Front-Bench team and the Government on that work.

I want to talk about some of the incidents that I have come across in Fareham over the past few months. Tragically, several young people took their own lives last year. As I said earlier, I recently met educational professionals who are increasingly worried about how long it is taking young people to access mental health support, counselling or other support through CAMHS. Children or young people are presenting with problems such as anxiety, low-level depression or self-harm, but they are not necessarily meeting the eligibility criteria required by CAMHS, so they are not being accepted for treatment by the services on offer. That leaves them to fall into a treatment gap, which is a problem in Fareham and around the country. Young people are presenting with complex needs that do not necessarily fit into the diagnostic box, and I hope that measures are in place to provide more accessible lower-level care and treatment to meet that demand.

The other issue that young people, their families and teachers, and medical professionals in Fareham are reporting to me is the time it takes to get an initial counselling or therapy session through CAMHS. Young people sometimes have to wait months before an initial meeting, which can have a devastating effect on someone who might be fragile or facing challenges. They may end up dropping out of school, for example, but they may have stayed in school had there been some intervention, or they may increase their level of self-harm or become suicidal within that timeframe. It is tragic that systemic challenges mean that we are unable to reach maybe the easier-to-treat cases in an appropriate timescale. It is incumbent upon me to highlight the challenges we are facing in Fareham, but I am glad that this funding and this commitment to mental health, particularly children and young people’s mental health, will go towards improving some of those systemic problems, such as resources and waiting times.

Turning to some good news in Fareham and the progress being made to address the treatment gap, I am pleased to welcome a new community support project in Fareham and Gosport that has been set up to supplement the existing health service. It is run by the Southern Health NHS Foundation Trust and the Princess Royal Trust For Carers, and a consultation is under way to assess how it can focus more on day-to-day mental health challenges and provide lower-level support for people who do not necessarily fulfil the eligibility criteria that I set out. That might be someone who has lost a job or is facing some financial difficulty, and this support can help them to get through a troubled time and prevent them from deteriorating.

The project will support people on a one-to-one basis and will serve to ease pressure on other services. It aims to nip mental health problems in the bud before they get worse, with a focus on prevention and on flexibility. I really welcome the initiative and hope that if it is successful in Fareham and Gosport it will be rolled out further afield in Hampshire.

I also want to talk about the Southern Health NHS Foundation Trust, which provides mental health services in Fareham. I want to update the House on the good progress that Southern Health has been making. I have been campaigning for many years—in fact, it was one of the first issues that hit my in-tray when I was first elected in 2015—about the systemic and structural problems endemic in the health trust, which was, frankly, failing its patients back in 2014 and 2015. Its leadership has been overhauled and it has had huge interventions from NHS Improvement, as well as a lot of monitoring from the various regulatory bodies in relation to its history of treatment of people with serious mental health problems or with disabilities, including avoidable deaths. Several inquests have concluded that Southern Health did bear blame for those deaths.

I am very glad to report that last week the CQC reported that Southern Health trust should be rated as good, and that is a vast improvement on previous years. It is a vote of confidence in the leadership team, and it is a real step forward in providing confidence to the thousands of people who work for Southern Health, and of course, above all, those patients who are under its care. In terms of leadership, safety, caring responsiveness and the extent to which it is patient-centred, Southern Health was rated as good. I have to say, however, that some areas still require improvement—for example, the effectiveness of services.

I have worked with many families whose young relatives have taken their own lives under the care of Southern Health, and I know they have been significantly involved with helping to get improvements in Southern Health. I know that they will be pleased by last week’s CQC rating, and I want to congratulate those families on all their input and their work on this issue. I also congratulate the leadership team at Southern Health.

Lastly, I want to talk briefly about Fareham Community Hospital in Fareham, which has been my pet project. It is a wonderful facility in the heart of our community, but it is sadly under-used. Last year I conducted a wide-ranging consultation with hundreds of local residents and many stakeholders, and I authored a document on the conclusions: the Minister is welcome to read a copy, maybe tonight or tomorrow, if he would be interested. It sets out a plan, based on the results of that consultation, for how we can better use Fareham Community Hospital. One of our recommendations is that it would be a brilliant location for a mental health hub in our community. We have a great facility, which is well located and in good condition, but in the light of the demands and challenges in the local area with young people’s mental health there is a great opportunity here for more funding and more co-ordination so that Fareham Community Hospital can be better harnessed, so that our young people, and also other people who need mental health support, can use the facility and capitalise on it in the most effective way. I hope that bosses at the CCG and those who make the decisions will that bear in mind.

I applaud the Government for their commitment to the funding in the Bill, and I oppose all the amendments.

Laura Trott Portrait Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 4:54 p.m.

Members across the House have spoken about the importance of unanimity of purpose on mental health and maternity, but I want to speak against amendments 2 and 5, for the simple reason that this funding, although so welcome and necessary in my constituency—and those of Members across the House—will be useless to my constituents unless it results in improved outcomes. Rather than talking about ring-fencing funding for specific things, we should be talking about outcomes—what they mean for our constituents, and how we make their healthcare better.

My hon. Friends the Members for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) and for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) raised similar points. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) rightly drew attention to the ambitious targets in the NHS long term plan. Those are the targets that we should be tracking ourselves against. Those are the targets that we should be talking about, and we should monitor whether the improved funding has enabled us to make progress against them. We should not just talk about whether to put a certain amount of money into a certain pot; on its own, it makes no sense and will not make anyone’s life better. The main point I want to make is that we should focus on outcomes rather than forever tracking inputs that do not improve our constituents’ lives.

The NHS long term plan has some very ambitious targets for maternity and mental health. I shall dwell on the target to achieve 50% reductions in stillbirth, maternal mortality, neonatal mortality and serious brain injury by 2025. It is incredibly important, and it is crucial that the House is updated on our progress against it. We shall do that, yes, through funding, but funding linked with policies that will drive that outcome and drive improvements.

I want to focus on midwives and maternity care. Under the coalition Government, a commitment was made to give each mother a named midwife. That is obviously extremely important, both for the mental health of the mother and for her care, because it means that there is someone who, throughout, is observing how that woman is doing—understanding how she has changed from one appointment to the next. It is not just a tick-box exercise, with a person who has never met the mother before looking at a list and saying, “Have you actually done this? Then you must be fine.” It is a person looking at the woman and thinking, “Actually, is this someone who needs a bit of help—whose mental health has deteriorated since the last appointment, who is looking a little bit more anxious?” Ring-fencing the funding is not enough in itself.

In addition, the long term plan talks about the shortage of neonatal capacity. As someone who has had the misfortune to have to use a neonatal unit recently, I know the tragic and immense strain that the movement of babies can put on parents who have to use neonatal units. We absolutely must put this money into expanding capacity in our neonatal units, and try to ensure that parents are assured that when they move into high-dependency units, they will never be downgraded because of capacity. That is incredibly important.

My hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) spoke very movingly about the issues that she had in her trust. Moving forward with policies such as these will prevent any repeat of such issues.

On a linked issue, it is important that we look at outcomes for multiple births. Neonatal capacity is part of that, but in addition the Twins Trust has been doing fantastic work in terms of a maternity checklist, which has been piloted by a number of trusts but not yet all. We can look at funnelling some of the money into increasing those trials. That will drive outcomes, which is what we are all here to ensure.

Finally, I want to mention money for anaesthetists. We talk about mental health outcomes for mothers. Part of the problem has been that, according to frightening reports, women who are in terrible need of pain relief during childbirth have not been able to get it. That is a cultural issue in some trusts. They seem to view childbirth as different from having an operation on one’s leg. I would like to see anyone who would undergo an operation on any other part of their body without pain relief, but that seems to be something that some trusts believe women are able to do, and it is wrong. Investment in anaesthetists, and funnelling money into that area of the NHS, is incredibly important.

To summarise: outcomes, please, not just pots of money. That will make everyone’s constituents’ lives better.

Lee Rowley Portrait Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 5 p.m.

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott), not least because her last sentence is what the next 10 minutes of my speech are about. [Interruption.] I am sure many Members probably want me to sit down now, but I will continue none the less.

May I welcome the Bill in general before dealing with the amendments I wish to speak about? It provides useful and good clarity for all the hospitals around the country, which need to ensure that they have appropriate funding in the coming years. I also welcome the clarity on the revenue side for hospitals such as Chesterfield Royal Hospital, which serves my constituency. It is looking for additional support on not only the revenue side, but the capital side, although I know that this is not the debate for that. I will not be supporting amendment 3, but there was a lot of merit in it, if only to ensure that if we do get our urgent care village at Chesterfield Royal Hospital, we could thus ensure that the money is in place and is ploughed into proper capital upgrades for the hospital in the future, for the benefit of everybody in north Derbyshire and my constituency.

I also welcome the Government’s commitment in recent months to the output point that my hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks outlined. That was done to some extent during the general election campaign, and I look forward to the continuation and extension of that in the coming months and years. I am pleased that we are in a debate on the NHS and healthcare that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) said, has been relatively friendly and has come away from the usual histrionic fireworks that sometimes accompany this issue. It is helpful for us occasionally to step back and have this kind of debate on the NHS, given that we are all committed to improving healthcare in our constituencies.

I wish to discuss two of the amendments briefly, picking up on this point about outputs. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), speaking from the Opposition Front Bench, was right about the need for accountability and the need to ensure that the money being committed in this Bill is spent wisely and appropriately, as was my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), who is no longer in his place but who talked about this not just being about money, and my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris), who is also no longer in her place but who was also keen to highlight the importance of outputs. For reasons I will talk about if I have time at the end, it is particularly important for me, on a personal level, that we focus on outputs.

First, let me turn to new clause 4, which I am keen to examine. I congratulate the Opposition Front-Bench team on beginning the long road back to sense—I hope they do not mind my describing it as such—with their welcome return to an interest in healthcare outputs rather than solely in inputs or methods. That is something to welcome, but the problem, and the reason I cannot support these proposals tonight, is that the Opposition continue to mix up the point about targets and outputs. Targets are not ends in themselves. Targets are indicative, much as we wish them to be hit and important as they are, to ensure that they give us good guides as to what is happening in our hospitals and healthcare system. They are different from outputs. In time, I would be keen to see Opposition Front Benchers moving further down that metaphorical road towards recognising that the outputs are the most important thing: people getting well, staying well for longer; going home and living longer and more meaningful lives with their families and within their communities.

The new clause also slightly misses the point. I infer, as clearly one can, that it starts from a position of directly relating the requests made to set out things from the perspective of money. I do not doubt that money is vital in this discussion, which is why we are bringing forward this Bill, but it does slightly become a blunt instrument. An opportunity is missed to recognise that this is not simply about money. The inputs into our healthcare system are incredibly important, but so are the structure, the model, the operations, the behaviour within it, the technology and the prioritisation chosen by all that vast behemoth of bureaucracy around the NHS. We have to ensure that there is a recognition of the importance of that, and that there is a real effect on the output at the end and on making sure that people stay better for longer. On that basis, I cannot support new clause 4.

New clause 11 is a similar attempt by the Opposition to ensure annual reviews of the adequacy of the financial movement forward. My challenge is that there is a definitional problem. The new clause would require the consideration of

“an assessment of the extent to which changes in the costs of…service delivery”

affect outcomes. There is an interesting question about the definition of “service delivery”, whether it is a rather narrow assessment or could encompass everything that the NHS ever does, and whether that would provide any benefit to the House or anybody who used the assessments. There is also a question about the complexity of analysis of service delivery in the first instance and how that can be defined and assessed. As a former management consultant, I am all in favour of complex analyses, but ultimately they have to provide a utility appropriate to what we are trying to do and to the ultimate objective and end point.

Although I again compliment the Opposition on moving closer towards output-based consideration, new clause 11 also starts from the position that money alone is the ultimate arbiter of whether our healthcare system is successful. Again, it is not just about money, as important as that money is; it is about organisation, people, motivation, workforce, demand, prioritisation, processes and how technology and innovation are changing things. If we do not recognise that, we are missing out a substantial portion of the debate that will be vital in the next 20 years to ensure that our healthcare system is fit for purpose.

Ultimately, why does this all matter? Why does speaking at a relatively technical level about outputs, structure or processes matter as much as inputs and money? Because, as other people have said, this is about real people—it is about making sure that people live for longer. We have all seen examples, when people come to see us at our surgeries, of where the NHS works wonderfully, but in our heart of hearts we all know examples of where the NHS has worked less well. That focus is sometimes as important as the money.

Let me give the House a personal example. My family, including myself, have had three occasions or reasons to get involved in the NHS over the past few years—indeed, over many years. The NHS saved my life on multiple occasions when I was growing up, and it also saved my father’s life when he had a double heart bypass around 10 years ago. It did less well with my mum when, a few months after I came to this place in September 2017, she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, about which I have spoken in Westminster Hall. That was an error, errors happen—there are humans in the process—and we have not taken it any further because of that. My mum is still here and I am very happy about that, but ultimately my mum did not have a good experience. If we just focus on money, we miss out on cases such as my mum’s.

We have been lucky in my family, but ultimately there will be constituents of ours who are not lucky. That is the point: I am grateful for the money that is going in, but it has to be well spent. If this place does not consider the outputs—if this place does not understand where the money is going and how it is used—there will be people who do not get through it in the way that we want them to. We all want to stop that, which is why it is really important that we focus on outputs as much as inputs.

Jane Hunt Portrait Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con)
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4 Feb 2020, 5:08 p.m.

I am grateful to my east midlands colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), for that excellent speech. He made some important points, particularly about outputs, the specific healthcare that is needed and the support required throughout the NHS.

I am grateful for this opportunity to speak to amendments 1, 2 and 3. The funding in the Bill will be administered by NHS England. The Bill guarantees long-term funding to implement the NHS long-term plan. It commits the Government to a £33.9 billion increase for the NHS by 2023-24, bringing the total spend to £148.5 billion. It also provides certainty through a double-lock agreement that places a legal duty on the Secretary of State and the Treasury to uphold this level of funding as a minimum over the next four years.

We are putting our money where our mouth is. Our manifesto clearly stated that

“within the first three months of our new term, we will enshrine in law our fully funded, long-term NHS plan”.

Since our success in December, we have consistently put forward and agreed steps to meet the commitments in our manifesto. We are delivering on the promises that we have made.

One of the most important aspects of the NHS long-term plan is its approach to mental health. It is crucial that people have access to mental health services where and when they need them. I, therefore, welcome the fact that the plan commits to ensuring that mental health receives a growing share of the NHS budget, which will be worth at least a further £2.3 billion a year in real terms by 2023-24. This will enable further service expansion and faster access to community and crisis mental health services for adults and particularly for children and young people.

Given that many people living with mental health issues may need to access health services more often, the NHS long term plan also allows for better and more consistent working between all parts of health care and voluntary elements of the sector. As we have seen in west Leicestershire, for example, primary care networks have formed, grouping GPs and other partners together to the benefit of their patients.

As NHS England sets out, primary care networks build on the core of current primary care services and enable greater provision of proactive, personalised, co-ordinated and more integrated health and social care. Clinicians describe this as a change from reactively providing appointments to proactively caring for the people and the communities that they serve.

Linking this local working together with the benefit and knowledge of vanguard projects from across the country and giving experienced local trust leaders, who have a deep understanding of the physical and mental health needs of their local area, the freedom to make appropriate funding decisions will improve the overall experience of the patient and provide better health and lifestyle outcomes. That is to be welcomed and celebrated, and I ask my fellow colleagues to support the Bill and reject the amendments today.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
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4 Feb 2020, 5:11 p.m.

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I notice that it is now 5.10 pm and that the Minister is about to get to his feet. If the knife falls at 5.30 pm, while the Minister is still speaking, or a Division is under way, can you confirm that that means there will be no Report stage, and no chance for the SNP amendments to be tabled or voted on?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Eleanor Laing)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in regard to the procedure. If we finish this part of the procedure before 5.29 pm, there will be a very short time for the next part of the procedure. If this part of the consideration of the Bill goes to 5.29 pm, there will indeed be no time for the Report and consideration stage. That is correct, as is normal in any Bill, but I am grateful to him for pointing it out so clearly.

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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4 Feb 2020, 5:13 p.m.

In the 15 or so minutes remaining to me, I will endeavour to address all the points that have been raised. First, I thank Members on both sides of the House for their contributions and for the amendments that have been tabled. I particularly thank the shadow Minister for his typically reasonable tone in making his case forcefully. This Committee debate has been a wide-ranging and important one.

I will turn in detail to the amendments shortly, but, in the interests of time, I will swiftly address the requests for meetings or visits. The hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) was right when he said that he saw me nodding. I will be very happy to meet him, my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (Matt Vickers) and the chief executive of his hospital trust to discuss the issues that he raised. I will also be very happy to meet the hon. Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) separately to discuss the issues that he raised.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:13 p.m.

rose—

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:13 p.m.

I will give way very briefly, because the hon. Gentleman is eating into his own time.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:13 p.m.

The Minister is in a very accommodating mood. Does he accept that this Bill has funding implications and consequences for health spending in Scotland?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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4 Feb 2020, 5:14 p.m.

As has been very clear throughout the progression of this Bill so far, there are Barnett consequentials, which will be dealt with in the usual and appropriate manner.

I will turn to the detail of the amendments in a moment, but before I do, let me say that my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) addressed the debate in Westminster Hall just before the general election. In that, I said that if her constituents wanted a strong voice in this place, they should vote for her. I am very pleased that they did exactly that. Her speech shows exactly why.

This legislation is a simple Bill of two clauses. The substantive clause—clause 1—puts a double-lock duty on the Secretary of State and Her Majesty’s Treasury to ensure that NHS England will receive, as a minimum, £33.9 billion extra a year by 2024, enshrining in law the NHS England revenue budget rise in line with the Government’s manifesto commitment. The Bill has deliberately been drawn narrowly to focus on that core commitment.

New clauses 4, 5 and 11 focus on whether the allocations are sufficient. At their heart is the question of whether the quantum is appropriate and will meet the needs of the NHS. Although I understand the sentiment behind these new clauses, they are unnecessary. The chief executive of the NHS said in 2018, after the announcement of the settlement:

“As the NHS turns 70, we can now face the next five years with renewed certainty. This multi-year settlement provides the funding we need to shape a long-term plan for key improvements in cancer, mental health and other critical services.”

We are giving the NHS the funding that it believes it needs.

There is already a clear duty on the Secretary of State for Health to lay before Parliament and publish an annual mandate to NHS England. The mandate sets objectives that NHSE must seek to meet in the year ahead, and its budget for doing so. That budget includes funding to meet all of NHSE’s statutory duties, including duties under the NHS constitution. The Secretary of State has a further duty to keep performance against the mandate under review, and must also publish his annual assessment of this performance in Parliament, with Parliament entitled to table debates and questions on the matter as it so wishes. Therefore, although I appreciate the purpose behind these new clauses, they would serve no useful additional purpose. Parliament already has ample opportunity to review NHSE’s budget, to consider whether it is sufficient to deliver on the objectives that the Government have set and to hold the Government to account. I will touch a little more on this when addressing new clauses 9 and 2 later.

I turn to new clause 5 and the concerns that the Bill enshrines the NHS budget in cash terms—a point that the shadow Minister has reasonably put to me and to the Secretary of State on previous occasions. Like Government departmental settlements, the NHS budget is set in cash terms. This is essential to deliver certainty and predictability. However, responding to changes or fluctuations in expected inflation rates is part of the normal course of business, and would be addressed and scrutinised as necessary through fiscal events such as Budgets. We do not need to legislate for that separately. Furthermore, the House should remember that what we are proposing is a floor, not a ceiling. We are retaining the flexibility for an increase in funding in a range of scenarios. Nothing in the Bill prevents that at any future point.

Theo Clarke Portrait Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

This Bill is about funding, but buildings and services are key to delivering on our national health service priorities, so may I highlight the importance of the A&E at the County Hospital in Stafford and ensuring that we are supporting NHS services in my constituency?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:18 p.m.

My hon. Friend is a sound and vocal champion for her constituents in Stafford. I am sure that she will continue to champion their cause, and I am happy to meet her to discuss the specific issue she raised.

I turn to amendment 3, in respect of capital-to-revenue transfers. Clause 1(2) ensures that the funding specified in the Bill can only be used for NHSE revenue spending, meaning that day-to-day spending for the NHS is protected. As we have highlighted in the House previously, the Government have made a range of capital commitments to the NHS, including the commitment to 40 new hospitals. Nevertheless, going to the point in the amendment itself, we have been clear that the transfers from capital revenue should have only been seen as short-term measures that were rightly being phased out, and we are doing so. My right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), the former Secretary of State, did, however, set out why a degree of flexibility is required, and we would not believe that a blanket ban set in legislation was the right approach.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Gareth Thomas
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4 Feb 2020, 5:19 p.m.

Will the Minister give way?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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4 Feb 2020, 5:19 p.m.

I will not, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, as I only have 10 minutes or so left.

There are sometimes very good and logical reasons why adjustments between capital and revenue are needed. As the former Secretary of State highlighted, in some cases, for perfectly good reasons a capital pot may not be spent fully within a year and there is an opportunity to achieve patient good from transferring it. While I take his point and believe it is right that we should continue to move away from such transfers, I would not wish to see that rigidly set in legislation.

Amendments 2 and 1, and new clauses 1, 2, 3 and 9, relate to mental health services both for children and adults, and accountability to Parliament and reporting mechanisms. We have rightly seen considerable interest in mental health in this debate, so I will seek to address both those points together. I begin by paying tribute to Paul Farmer of Mind, Sir Simon Wessely, Professor Louis Appleby, the Mental Health Foundation, Rethink Mental Illness, YoungMinds, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, and a host of other individuals and organisations up and down the country, for their fantastic work in making mental health such a feature in our debates and in the public consciousness. It is absolutely right that they have done so.

I pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries), and her predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price), who brought to the role of mental health Minister passion, dedication and a determination to make a difference. I should also reference some former Members of this House: Norman Lamb, who did so much in this area; the former Prime Minister, David Cameron; and of course my right hon. Friends the Members for South West Surrey and for Maidenhead (Mrs May), who ensured that it was front and centre of this Government’s commitment.

I want to be totally clear that the Government are fully committed to transforming mental health services. That is why we enshrined in law our commitment to achieving parity of esteem for mental health in the Health and Social Care Act 2012. As my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey said, that is driving real change on the ground. We have also committed to reforming the Mental Health Act 1983 to provide modernised legislation. I would also highlight that at £12.5 billion in 2018-19, spending on mental health services is at its highest ever level.

We have made huge strides in moving towards parity, but there is still so much more to do. We are ensuring, through the NHS long-term plan, that spending on mental health services will increase by an additional £2.3 billion by 2023-24. This historic level of investment in mental health is ensuring that we can drive forward one of the most ambitious reform programmes in Europe. It will ensure that hundreds of thousands of additional people get access to the services they need in the lifetime of the plan. I flag that up because we can and will always strive to do more, and it is right that we are always pressed by this House to do so. While proposals for a ring fence in mental health spending are understandable, the approach that this Government have already set out, with long-term commitments to funding, is already driving the results we wish to see.

I now turn to new clause 9, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris). If I may, I will also address new clause 2 in this context because there is a degree of overlap. I welcome my hon. Friend’s new clause. Although I hope that, as she indicated, she will not press it to a vote—and I heard what the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) said in respect of hers—the sentiment behind it is a good one, particularly the focus on outcomes and outputs rather than simply inputs and the amount of money going in, and on adopting a holistic approach. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot recently met the Secretary of State to discuss the matter, and I am happy to meet both her and the hon. Member for Twickenham. While we do not believe it is the right approach to set additional reporting mechanisms in legislation over and above the different reports that NHS England and the Secretary of State already make to Parliament, which offer opportunities for debate, we are happy to consider whether, within the existing reporting mechanisms, there is a way to better convey to the House and the public more widely the progress we are making against those targets.

The NHS long-term plan represents the largest expansion of mental health services in a generation, renewing our commitment to increase investment faster than the overall NHS budget in each of the next five years. Not only will spending on mental health services increase faster than the overall NHS budget as a proportion, but spending on CAMHS will increase at an even faster rate. The hon. Member for Twickenham was right to highlight the importance of CAMHS. In our surgeries, we have all had constituents come to see us who are deeply worried and concerned about the mental health and welfare of their children, be that in relation to eating disorders, which I focused on when I came to this place, or a range of other factors. We are committed to delivering the NHS long-term plan to transform children and young people’s mental health services, with an additional 345,000 children and young people being able to access those services.

While we are deeply sympathetic to the spirit behind the amendments on mental health spending, we do not believe that putting a ring fence into the Bill is the appropriate way forward, given the work already being done, the money already being spent and the outcomes already being delivered. We believe that the reporting requirements are already extensive and varied. They already give the public and Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise the work of the Department and NHS England. We are happy to look at ways in which those reports might be more accessible and include different metrics, but we believe it would be wrong to legislate on them at this point.

As I said on Second Reading, this is a simple Bill. It has two clauses, of which one is substantive. It has a single, simple aim: to enshrine the funding settlement behind the NHS long-term plan in law. It delivers the funding that the NHS said it needed and wanted, and it delivers on this Government’s pledge to do so within three months of the election. In the light of that, while the amendments are clearly well intentioned and we appreciate the spirit behind them, they are unnecessary additions to the Bill, and I urge their proposers not to press them to a vote. I appreciate that Members have indicated their intention to press some amendments to a vote, I urge them, in the short period remaining before Committee ends, to reflect a little longer on whether they might reconsider and not move their amendments to a vote.

Three hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings, the debate was interrupted (Programme Order, 27 January).

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Eleanor Laing)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:29 p.m.

Under the programme order of 27 January, I must now put the Questions necessary to dispose of the proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Committee stage of the Bill, and on the consideration —Report—stage and the consent motion in the Legislative Grand Committee (England). I can see some puzzled faces around the Chamber, and not only among those who have newly been elected to this place, so for the sake of Members unfamiliar with our procedures in respect of Legislative Grand Committees, I will set out what is about to happen.

I will put the Question on amendment 2, which has already been proposed from the Chair. I will then call a member of the Legislative Grand Committee (England) to move amendment 3 to clause 1. When he has done so, I will put the Question on that amendment. I will then put the single Question that clause 1—or clause 1, as amended, if it has been so amended—and clause 2 stand part of the Bill. I will then call a member of the Legislative Grand Committee (England) to move new clause 4. When he has done so, I will put the Question that the new clause be added to the Bill.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Can you read it again?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:30 p.m.

I could, but we might get to the stage where there are no votes at all.

When the proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Committee stage of the Bill are concluded, I will resume the Speaker’s Chair for the Whip to report the Bill from Committee. As the three-hour knife has now fallen, there are no amendments for consideration on Report, as the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) rightly pointed out in his point of order earlier.

The House will again resolve itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England) to give consent to the Bill as a whole. I will call the Minister to move the consent motion formally, and I will put the Question on the consent motion forthwith. I can see that everybody understands this a lot better now. When the proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the consent motion are concluded, I will resume the Speaker’s Chair and call the Minister to move the Third Reading of the Bill.

I remind hon. Members that, if there is a Division in the Legislative Grand Committee, only Members representing constituencies in England may vote. All Members may vote on the Third Reading of the Bill.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I am very sorry, but although I was listening very carefully, I did not quite catch all of that. Do you mind repeating it once again, please?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I fully appreciate that the hon. Gentleman may not have caught all of that, but I happen to know that he is one of a handful of people in this House who does actually understand this procedure. I hope that I am one of the others, and everyone else will pick it up as we go along.

The Chair put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83D), That amendment 2 be made.

The Committee having proceeded to a Division.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Serjeant at Arms please investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby?

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:54 p.m.

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I think that we should mark this moment. This is the busiest that the English Parliament has been since 1707. I have never seen so many people so keen to take part.

I am interested in the numbers that have just been read out, Madam Deputy Speaker, because 163 for the Ayes seems very low to me. Just by means of a headcount, I counted a significant number more than that. In fact, according to my calculations, at least 46 Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were in the Lobby just now. Can you tell me whether the number that was read out in the House accurately records the number of Members of Parliament who wished to express their view on the amendment?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Eleanor Laing)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:56 p.m.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for expressing his concerns in such an articulate fashion, and I note the words that he has used. I can confirm to him that, although his count of the number of Members who wished to express their view might well be correct, the numbers that I have announced to the House and on which I will rely from the Chair constitute the number of Members who have a right to vote on this matter. As the hon. Gentleman knows, under the procedures set out in Standing Order 83W—with which he, if not the rest of the House, must of course be familiar—Members who do not represent constituencies geographically situated in England do not have a right to vote in these particular Divisions.

Ian Blackford Portrait Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. Perhaps you can enlighten me. Is this indeed the first time that Members from Scotland have had their votes discounted in this place? What conclusion should we draw, Madam Deputy Speaker, when an item such as this Bill will have spending consequences for Scotland, and yet Scottish MPs are locked out of this place? Can we not draw our own conclusion that this is indeed the English Parliament? The answer to the people of Scotland is very clear: if you want your votes to be counted, we had better become an independent Parliament in Scotland.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:56 p.m.

I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman does not quite explain the situation as it really is. You see, this Parliament, as the Parliament of the United Kingdom, passed certain rules some time ago, and it is not correct to say that Members from Scottish constituencies are locked out; far from it. Members from Scottish constituencies, and constituencies in every part of the United Kingdom, have not been locked out. They have been allowed to participate in the debate, but not to vote in it. Members from Northern Ireland constituencies and from Welsh constituencies are similarly categorised for the purpose of these particular Divisions.

Michael Gove Portrait The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Michael Gove)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Further to that point of order, Dame Eleanor. Is it not the case that health is a devolved matter, and that the NHS in Scotland is the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament? Is it not the case that, therefore, Members of this House have no votes on, or say in, what happens in the NHS in Scotland, and is it not appropriate to point out to SNP Members that while they stage these stunts here, the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh, for which they are responsible, remains closed, and cases of poisoning in hospitals in Glasgow for which they are responsible remain undealt with? Until the Scottish Government make sure that the health of the people of Scotland is looked after, the people of Scotland will regard this as a transparent stunt on the part of people who, instead of representing their constituents, seek to manufacture grievance.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 5:59 p.m.

I fully appreciate the point—[Interruption.] Order. This will not degenerate into a shouting match.

The right hon. Gentleman has expressed his view with his usual rhetorical flourish. My only comment must be that this is a very narrow Bill, specifically making provision for the funding of the health service in England. I have to go with what it says on the Bill, and it is therefore correct for it to be administered in this way.

Martin Docherty-Hughes Portrait Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I have due regard for your judgments. When I first rose to speak in the House in 2015, I said to the then Speaker that, while I was no Unionist or home ruler, I would stand shoulder to shoulder in defending the role of the Speaker. My concern, if this is the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is that this Bill has Barnett consequentials for the nation of Scotland, the nation of Wales and the communities of Northern Ireland. Therefore, I am gravely concerned that the EVEL system is being used to exclude the notion that there are Barnett consequentials. You may wish to clarify this for the Members of the Conservative and Unionist one nation party.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:01 p.m.

I fully appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman raises, and there may well be Barnett consequentials—[Hon. Members: “Ah!”] There may be further opportunities when further legislation about these matters comes before the House, but this particular Bill is a very narrow one, and therefore the ruling is quite clear. I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says about protecting the Chair and rulings from the Chair. In this case, there is no grey area. Under Standing Order No. 83W, no matter who passes through the Division Lobby in these three Divisions before us—or however many Divisions there might be—only the votes of Members sitting for English constituencies will be counted.

Maria Miller Portrait Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I know that Mr Speaker has strict rules about the use of promotional material in the Chamber of the House of Commons, and I am sure that, quite unintentionally, some Members might be displaying material that perhaps would be inappropriate. Will you point out that there are strict rules on that, and that it should not be done in the way that it has been done?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:03 p.m.

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady. I must say to her and to the Committee that I was hoping that I would not see any promotional materials—[Interruption.] Oh no! I see one! I was hoping that such an occurrence would not happen right now. No promotional materials should ever be displayed in the Chamber. For the avoidance of doubt, I refer hon. Members to paragraph 21.29 of “Erskine May”—Mr Blackford, you will like this one—which states clearly that

“all Members should be sufficiently articulate to express what they want to say without diagrams”.

I will now proceed to amendment 3 to clause 1, which I have selected for a separate decision.

The Chair then put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time (Standing Order No. 83D).

Amendment proposed: 3, in clause 1, page 1, line 18, at end insert—

“and that the sums set out in the table are not permitted to be augmented by or composed of any virements from NHS capital budgets.”—(Justin Madders.)

The amendment would stop the Secretary of State meeting the NHS England allotment for resource spending by using funds from NHS capital budgets.

The Committee proceeded to a Division.

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

New clauses 1 and 2 added to the Bill.

New Clause 4

Annual statement on performance

The Secretary of State must make a statement to the House of Commons no later than 31 March each year setting out—

(a) whether in the Secretary of State’s opinion the amount specified in section 1(1) for the following financial year is sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS constitution, and

(b) if in the Secretary of State’s opinion the amount specified in section 1(1) for the following financial year is not sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS constitution, what steps Secretary of State is taking to ensure that those targets are met.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report annually on whether the allotment to the health service specified in section 1(1) year is sufficient to meet the performance targets set out in the NHS Constitution and, if not, what steps Secretary of State is taking to ensure that those targets are met.

Brought up.

Question put, That the clause be added to the Bill.

The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair.

Bill reported, without amendment (Standing Order No. 83D(6)).

Bill, not amended in the Legislative Grand Committee (England), considered.

Eleanor Laing Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:38 p.m.

There are no amendments on consideration.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:38 p.m.

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is great to be back in the United Kingdom Parliament—just like magic! I congratulate you on your skilful chairing of the English Parliament from the lower Chair over the last three hours. You have just announced that there are no amendments to be considered on Report as none had been tabled because the knife fell more than an hour ago. Could you confirm that that is correct? I notice that the selection list says:

“Mr Speaker has provisionally selected…New Clauses…as long as the 3 hour time limit has not expired: NC6 [SNP] + NC7 [SNP].”

For the record, can we confirm that the effect of all this has been that amendments tabled by Members of the Scottish National party have not been debated tonight and could not been divided on because the Government did not provide enough time, or Members took up so much time in the meeting of the English Parliament—the Legislative Grand Committee—that they have effectively denied the rights of SNP Members to table amendments to a Bill that directly affects our constituents?

Eleanor Laing Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:39 p.m.

The hon. Gentleman’s analysis is not wrong. The knife has fallen. The House voted some days ago to provide three hours, or four hours in total, for consideration of this Bill, and it is indeed the case that because those four hours have passed, there is no time for debate on consideration and Report—that is absolutely correct. There is also no time for debate on Third Reading.

As to whether the Government did not provide sufficient time, or Members of this House took up all the time in the early part of the proceedings, that is not a matter for me to judge; I have merely facilitated it. Members might have decided not to speak for very long at the beginning. If so, the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues would have had the opportunity to discuss the matters that they had tabled. I thank him for his further points.

Does the Minister intend to move a consent motion in the Legislative Grand Committee?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

indicated assent.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England) (Standing Order No. 83M(3)).

[Dame Eleanor Laing in the Chair]

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Eleanor Laing)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:41 p.m.

I remind hon. Members, although I do not think there is any need for reminding at this stage, that if there is a Division, only Members representing constituencies in England may vote.

Patrick Grady Portrait Patrick Grady
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:42 p.m.

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. We are back in the English Parliament again and the absurdity of this procedure is now being laid bare. [Interruption.] I am delighted that Conservative Members are groaning because several of them voted for it when it was introduced way back in 2015. They did not have to—it was a choice. I am not trying to beat the record of my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), who has spoken in the Legislative Grand Committee for England more times than any other Member of this House over the past four years, but can we just confirm again that, as you said, if Scottish Members, for whatever reason, were to object to the consent motion, you would not even be able to hear their voices —it is as if we are invisible?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:42 p.m.

It is not as if any hon. Member of this House is ever invisible or, indeed, inaudible, but merely, once again, following Standing Order No. 83W, which this House resolved to put into the Standing Orders of the House.

Pete Wishart Portrait Pete Wishart
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. [Interruption.] I hear the groans from my Conservative colleagues. I have to keep my record of speaking in the English Parliament—it is a record that I very much cherish and look forward to maintaining. These events are being televised and people throughout the United Kingdom, particularly those in Scotland, are observing our proceedings with a degree of mystification and bewilderment. What Scottish viewers will see is the baying, groaning and booing of Conservative Members about Scottish Members of Parliament asserting their rights to have their say on the funding of the national health service. Can you confirm that that is the case and that this House really needs to grow up, behave itself and come into the 21st century?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:44 p.m.

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. I would say, as Mr Speaker always says, and as every occupant of the Chair always says, that our behaviour in this Chamber should, at all times, be of a standard that makes us never ashamed to be watched by anyone on television or in any other way, regardless of the subject of our proceedings. I notice that that has engendered some slightly better behaviour—thank you.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith,

That the Legislative Grand Committee (England) consents to the NHS Funding Bill, not amended in the Legislative Grand Committee (England).— (Edward Argar.)

Under the terms of the Order of the House of 27 January, I must now put the Question necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee on the consent motion. The question is the consent motion. As many are of that opinion say “Aye”—[Hon. Members: “Aye!”]—of the contrary “No”—[Hon. Members: “No!”]. The Ayes have it—[Interruption.] We now come to a scientific matter. Members representing Scottish seats are well aware that they do not have the right to vote on this particular motion. They therefore do not have the right to shout “No” when I put the question. I can hear “Aye” from the Government Benches. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) knows that I am more than capable of discerning a Scottish “No” from a non-Scottish “No”—[Interruption.] Order. I am ruling that the shouting of “No” from the SNP Benches does not mean that we are going to have a Division.

Question agreed to.

Martin Docherty-Hughes Portrait Martin Docherty-Hughes
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I always have due regard for you and anyone who sits in the Chair of any Parliament. You said that you could discern Scottish MPs shouting “No”; I fully understand that. Can you advise me whether you can hear Scottish constituency MPs on the Government Benches shouting “Aye”?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

4 Feb 2020, 6:45 p.m.

I believe I can, but as their voices have been drowned out by the English “Ayes”, I cannot hear the Scottish Members on the Government Benches. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) points out that, although he has a Scottish voice, he has an English vote. We have had enough of this.

Ian Blackford Portrait Ian Blackford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a point of order, Dame Eleanor. I am grateful to you for allowing this point of order. I wonder whether you can help me. When we were all elected to this place in December 2019, we were sent here to represent our constituents. What message does it give to the people of Ross, Skye and Lochaber and the constituents of my many hon. Friends that we are not permitted to vote on matters in this House that have direct consequences for spending in Scotland?

Eleanor Laing Portrait The Chairman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That is not a point of order for the Chair, and my opinion on the matter is irrelevant. We have had enough points of order; it is time to continue with business.

The occupant of the Chair left the Chair to report the decision of the Committee (Standing Order No. 83M(6)).

The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair; decision reported.

More than four hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England), the proceedings were interrupted (Programme Order, 27 January).

Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83E), That the Bill be now read the Third time.

Question agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed.

Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the Order of 22 January 2020 (Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill: Programme) be varied as follows:

In paragraph (2) of the Order (conclusion of proceedings in Public Bill Committee), for “6 February” substitute “13 February”.—(Iain Stewart.)

Question agreed to.

NHS Funding Bill (Money)

(Money resolution: House of Commons)
Monday 27th January 2020

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber

Read Hansard Text Bill Main Page

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act arising from the NHS Funding Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment of sums out of money provided by Parliament, provided that in the discharge of any duty under the Act to make a minimum allotment for each financial year specified in the table, such sums may not exceed the amount so specified.

The table is as follows—

Financial year Amount

Ending with 31 March 2021 £127,007,000,000

Ending with 31 March 2022 £133,283,000,000

Ending with 31 March 2023 £139,990,000,000

Ending with 31 March 2024 £148,467,000,000—(James Morris.)

Question agreed to.

NHS Funding Bill (Programme)

(Programme motion: House of Commons)
Monday 27th January 2020

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber

Read Hansard Text Bill Main Page

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the NHS Funding Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to the Legislative Grand Committee (England).

Proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England), on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

(2) Proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Bill, proceedings on Consideration and any proceedings in legislative grand committee on a consent motion shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion three hours after the commencement of proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Bill.

(3) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion four hours after the commencement of proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Bill.

(4) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings in the Legislative Grand Committee (England) on the Bill or to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(5) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(James Morris.)

Question agreed to.

NHS Funding Bill

(2nd reading: House of Commons)
Monday 27th January 2020

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber

Read Hansard Text Bill Main Page
Department of Health and Social Care

Second Reading

Matt Hancock Portrait The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Matt Hancock)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 4:59 p.m.

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, before turning to the Bill I would like to update the House on the ongoing situation with the Wuhan coronavirus. The chief medical officer continues to advise that the risk to the UK population is low and that, while there is an increased likelihood that cases may arise in this country, we are well prepared and well equipped to deal with them. As of 2 pm, there are currently no confirmed cases in the UK. We are working night and day with the World Health Organisation and the international community and are monitoring the situation closely. Our approach has been guided by the chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty.

As I set out in my statement on Thursday, coronavirus presents with flu-like symptoms including fever, a cough and difficulty breathing, and the current evidence is that most cases appear to be mild. However, this is a new disease, and the global scientific community is still learning about it. I have therefore directed Public Health England to take a belt-and-braces approach, including tracing people who have been in Wuhan in the past 14 days. Coronaviruses do not usually spread if people do not have symptoms. However, we cannot be 100% certain.

From today, as concerns have been raised about limited pre-symptom transmission, we are asking anyone in the UK who has returned from Wuhan in the last 14 days to self-isolate—to stay indoors and avoid contact with other people—and to contact NHS 111. If you are in Northern Ireland, you should phone your GP. If you develop respiratory symptoms within 14 days of travel from the area and are now in the UK, call your GP or ring 111, informing them of your symptoms and your recent travel to the city. Do not leave home until you have been given advice by a clinician.

Public Health England officials continue to trace people who have arrived in the UK from Wuhan. Having eliminated those who we know have since left the country, we are seeking to locate 1,460 people. The Foreign Office is rapidly advancing measures to bring UK nationals back from Hubei province. I have asked my officials to ensure that there are appropriate measures in place upon arrival to look after them and to protect the public. If you are in Hubei province and wish to leave, please get in contact with the Foreign Office; there are details on the gov.uk website.

The UK is one of the first countries in the world to have developed an accurate test for this coronavirus, and PHE is undertaking continuous refinement of that test. PHE has this morning confirmed to me that it can scale up, so we are in a position to deal with cases in this country if necessary. I want to stress that the NHS remains well prepared. The NHS has expert teams in every ambulance service and at a number of specialist hospital units with highly trained staff and equipment, ready to receive and care for patients with any highly infectious disease, including this one. The NHS practises and prepares its response to disease outbreaks and follows tried and tested procedures, following the highest safety standards possible for the protection of NHS staff, patients and the public. Specific guidance on handling Wuhan coronavirus has been shared with NHS staff.

This is a timely reminder of why it matters to have a world-class healthcare system—to be able to plan and prepare for such situations.

Jonathan Ashworth Portrait Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5 p.m.

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for updating the House and for letting me intervene at this point, before we move on to the substance of today’s debate. First, could he offer some further clarification? According to the newspapers, there are suggestions that France, the United States and Japan are airlifting their citizens out of Wuhan tomorrow. I emphasise that I am going off newspaper speculation and I appreciate that that is not his portfolio, but how advanced are the Foreign Office’s plans? Secondly, could he update the House about whether it is correct that the treatment of coronavirus would need a number of extra corporeal membrane oxygenation beds to be open? ECMO beds are in high demand in winter. Could he update the House on how many ECMO beds are currently open, and on what preparations the NHS is making on that front?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:01 p.m.

The Foreign Office is working with international partners both in America and other EU countries, keeping open about the procedures and what it will do for the estimated 200 UK citizens who are in the area in China in which this is currently contained. On the point about the readiness of the NHS here, four centres are stood up and ready should there be a need. The centres are in Guy’s and St Tommy’s, Liverpool, Newcastle and the Royal Free, and there is a further escalation if more beds are needed. So we are ready, but of course we keep all these things under review.

Geraint Davies Portrait Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:01 p.m.

The Secretary of State will know that we are all looking forward to lots of celebrations of the Chinese new year. What communication has he had with Chinese organisations that are arranging these, so that they can get in contact with people who may have come from Wuhan so as to try to identify risk and pre-empt problems?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:02 p.m.

We are using all possible means to get in contact with the 1,460 people whom we need to contact, and who we know have travelled to the UK from Wuhan and who have not as far as we know left the country. We are collaborating with Border Force, the airline and others, including universities, schools and cultural organisations to try to make contact.

Seema Malhotra Portrait Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:02 p.m.

My constituency borders Heathrow, and many of my constituents will be working at Heathrow with the airlines and in many other roles. I appreciate that the risk may be low, but could the Secretary of State update the House on whether advice has been given to Heathrow and airlines on how to give advice to their staff who may have come into contact with people who might be affected so that everybody can be assured that all is being done and that any support they may need is available?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:03 p.m.

The hon. Member is quite right to raise this. There is a Public Health England unit or hub at Heathrow to meet all flights from China now; it met the one flight that has come from Wuhan directly since news of this outbreak reached the level it did last Wednesday. The advice is clear to anybody who is worried about having coronavirus, and that is to call 111. If they have travelled to Wuhan or elsewhere in China recently, they should declare that to the 111 service when they call, and the 111 service has the full advice available. It is important for them to call 111 or to call their GP rather than going to a GP or to A&E, for exactly the reason that we want people to self-isolate if they have been to the region or if they think that they may have the virus.

I will now move on to the Bill. As we have been highlighting with the NHS work on the coronavirus that originated in Wuhan, few things in life are certain. However, it is the job of Government to plan for the future, even though we cannot fully see it. We do not know for instance exactly how many babies will be born in four years’ time, but we can anticipate demand for maternity services. We do not know exactly how many people will make a 999 call in four years’ time, but we can and must plan for that. Indeed, we do not know if the Labour party will have a competent leader in four months’ time, let alone four years’ time, but I hope for the country’s sake to see the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) on the Opposition Front Bench well into the next decade. There is one institution that, with this Bill, knows it will get the funding it needs in 2024, and that is the NHS, because this Bill injects the largest and longest cash settlement ever granted to the NHS and will enshrine it into law—£33.9 billion extra a year by 2024.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:05 p.m.

Does not this excellent Bill ensure that people will never again be misled into thinking that we are selling off the national health service to Donald Trump? Does the Secretary of State also agree that the money guaranteed in this funding Bill will ensure that places such as Harlow will have a new hospital, as has been guaranteed by my right hon. Friend?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:05 p.m.

Yes, I am delighted to be able to assure my right hon. Friend that, on both counts, he is absolutely spot-on. This Bill makes it clear that we will be funding the NHS with its long-term plan and making this long-term commitment as a minimum. The election result put paid to the scaremongering put about by Opposition Members in relation to the NHS in trade deals, because the NHS is not on the table. When it comes to Harlow, my right hon. Friend and the people of Harlow well know that I am delivering: we will have a new hospital in Harlow.

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Portrait Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:06 p.m.

On the same theme as that raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon)—privatising the NHS—will the Secretary of State confirm that the disastrous private finance initiative deals done by the last Labour Government were not only the largest privatisations the NHS has ever seen, but that they cost various NHS trusts billions of pounds? Will we be reversing that, and will the money go into the local NHS trusts?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:06 p.m.

Yes and yes; my hon. Friend anticipates my whole section on Mr PFI sitting over on the Opposition Front Bench. During his time in the Treasury, the hon. Member for Leicester South, managed to sign off some of the worst PFI deals. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman sighs, but I do not think he understands the damage he has done.

This Bill confirms that spending on the NHS will rise from £115 billion last year to £121 billion this year, to £127 billion, then £133 billion, £140 billion and £148 billion in 2023-24.

Philippa Whitford Portrait Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:07 p.m.

To clarify the point, are the Government committed to buying out the PFIs that are currently a burden on health boards and trusts?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:07 p.m.

We absolutely will be looking at doing that where we can. Unfortunately, that is difficult to do, because, over time, and especially during the time that the hon. Member for Leicester South was in the Treasury, the legals on these PFI deals got tighter and tighter. There are 106 PFI deals in hospitals and we are going through them. We will work towards making them work better for patients, and if that means coming out of them completely, I will be thrilled.

Bernard Jenkin Portrait Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:09 p.m.

My right hon. Friend might know that I am a vice-president of Combat Stress, the charity for the mental welfare of our armed servicemen and veterans. Until recently it had a very tiny contract compared to the vast sums he has just announced—£3.1 million a year—and was treating some 250 patients a year with PTSD and other mental illnesses related to combat stress. Combat Stress is now having to discontinue taking referrals because the contract has come to an end. What prospect is there that there will be a new contract as soon as possible so Combat Stress can carry on its brilliant work?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am very glad that my hon. Friend has raised this matter, because I was concerned to read the reports in the newspapers and have had a briefing this morning. There is work on a new contract to replace the old one, and I very much hope that that is settled and agreed as soon as possible.

Dean Russell Portrait Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

27 Jan 2020, 5:10 p.m.

First, I thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for visiting Watford during the election, when he came to Watford General Hospital with me and very kindly met the chief executive. As part of that, he assured me that we would get £400 million of investment from the Government for West Herts trust, primarily to secure a new Watford General Hospital, one of six new hospitals—and many more—over the next few years. Given press speculation about the money being a loan and not funding from the Government, will he reassure my Watford constituents that that is not the case?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Yes, that is exactly right. I enjoyed visiting Watford at the invitation of my hon. Friend. It is fantastic that Watford will get a new hospital. Watford General Hospital needs to be rebuilt and it will be rebuilt with a grant from the Government. The money will go to Watford general—to the trust—as he mentions. It will not be a loan; it will be a grant. I know that there has been some speculation about that. I do not know where it came from, but it is not true. The money will come as a grant.

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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27 Jan 2020, 5:11 p.m.

Let me make a little progress, because so many people want to speak.

The purpose of the Bill is to set a minimum amount for the money going into the NHS. I want to set out what the funding in the Bill will be used for and what it will pay for, and also what we are adding on top of that, because the distinction is important.

Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
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27 Jan 2020, 5:11 p.m.

The Minister heard earlier from another Member about mental health issues, which do not just affect adults but also affect children—those from 10 to 12 or in their teenage years. A great number of children suffer from mental health issues at school. What has been done to help those schoolchildren to address those issues, which needs to happen early?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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27 Jan 2020, 5:12 p.m.

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise what is an incredibly important issue. We are rolling out support for mental health practitioners in schools across England. We have just given the new devolved Northern Ireland Government a big funding increase to enable them to roll out those services. Obviously this is a devolved issue, so exactly how they do that is up to them, but we will ensure that the roll-out continues across England and that children get the support they need.

Marco Longhi Portrait Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)
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27 Jan 2020, 5:12 p.m.

Having worked in the health economy for a couple of decades, I know that commissioners and providers will be absolutely delighted at the long-term approach that my right hon. Friend is taking to revenue funding of the NHS. However, patient experience and patient outcomes also rely on the delivery of capital projects, not least at Russells Hall Hospital in my constituency, where we really need extra capacity, not least in A&E and our car parks. Will my right hon. Friend or one of his Ministers meet me to discuss these issues?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Yes, of course. The Minister for Health, my hon. Friend Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), is responsible for the roll-out of additional capital for car parks, which we committed to in the manifesto. More broadly, we will both be very happy to talk to my hon. Friend about what more we can do for Dudley. It is incredibly important, and he is already such a powerful advocate for it.

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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27 Jan 2020, 5:13 p.m.

I will give way to the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) and then the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood).

Geraint Davies Portrait Geraint Davies
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27 Jan 2020, 5:13 p.m.

The Secretary of State knows that NHS funding increases in recent years have averaged about 1.4%. His plan is for 3.4%, yet the last Labour Government delivered average increases of 6% a year—almost twice as much—so how can he be saying that this is enough? It is clearly too little, too late.