Ash Tree Dieback
Owen Paterson Excerpts(11 years, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
Further to my statement on 9 November 2012, Official Report, column 48WS, I am today setting out plans for the next few months to control Chalara and also publishing the interim report by the independent taskforce on tree health and plant biosecurity. The taskforce’s initial recommendations lay the groundwork for a radical reappraisal of what we can do to protect the UK from threats to plant and tree health.
The discovery of ash dieback caused by Chalara fraxinea in the UK earlier this year highlighted the importance of plant and tree health to our economy and environment. As well as providing direct employment in the forestry, horticulture and nursery sectors, our woods and forests provide valuable raw materials for many other uses, from wood fuel to construction and furniture-making. The value of woods and forests however goes beyond the economic. They provide habitats for a range of valuable habitats for our wildlife and places that are loved by communities for their beauty and the recreational opportunities. Individual trees on streets and in gardens enhance the local environment and people’s quality of life. Ash is the majority tree species in about 129,000 hectares of woodland out of Britain’s 3 million hectares of woodland. It represents just over 13% of all broadleaf cover in the UK.
Interim Control Plan for Chalara
This summarises the progress we have made in delivering the initial actions we set out on 9 November and outlines what further action we will take over the next few months. The scientific advice is that we will not be able to eradicate Chalara. Our objectives and actions for controlling the disease are therefore:
Objective 1—reducing the rate of spread
Maintain the ban on import and movement of ash trees;
Explore options for a targeted approach to management of infected trees by the end of March 2013;
Initiate research on spore production at infected sites;
Work with partners to publish targeted advice on movement of leaf litter.
Objective 2—developing resistance
Work across Europe to share data and experience on resistance to Chalara;
Work with research councils and other bodies in the UK to identify and prioritise research needs on resistance and ensure those needs are met.
Objective 3—encouraging public, landowner and industry engagement
Fund a feasibility study to accelerate the development of the ObservaTREE, a tree health early warning system using volunteer groups;
Develop a plant health network of trained people to support official surveillance and detection;
Continue to work with the OPAL consortium to develop the OPAL survey on tree health for launch in May 2013;
Support a biosecurity themed show garden at next year’s Chelsea flower show.
Objective 4—building resilience in the UK woodland and associated industries
Publish silvicultural guidance on adapting to Chalara;
Publish maps showing the distribution of important ash trees across Great Britain;
Work with the horticulture and nursery sectors on long-term resilience to the impact of Chalara and other plant health threats.
These actions are interim measures based on our current state of knowledge and will be updated as that knowledge develops over the coming months. Until the science becomes more certain, we will continue to apply a single, national response to the disease and the current ban on movements of ash trees in Great Britain will remain in place.
Landowners, voluntary organisations and the general public all have a crucial role to play in helping us implement this plan by identifying and managing the spread of the disease and adapting to its impact. The control plan sets out a number of actions to enable them to do this and new advice to landowners and woodland managers will be published today by the Forestry Commission alongside the control plan.
While our best hope of securing the future of the British ash tree lies with understanding the genetic variability in ash and identifying resistance to Chalara, the greatest area of uncertainty remains how we should deal with infected trees. To date we have been pursuing a policy of tracing and destroying young infected trees across Great Britain to slow the rate of spread. However, that is unlikely to be sustainable in the longer-term and there may be benefits from a more targeted approach. We will therefore work with stakeholders and experts over the coming months to explore the costs and benefits of a range of alternative approaches to slow the spread of Chalara.
I believe this approach will put us in the best possible position to respond with pace to the disease over the winter months while the disease is not spreading.
Task Force on Tree Health and Plant Biosecurity
In parallel to the work in response to Chalara in October, I asked my chief scientific advisor to convene an independent expert taskforce on tree health and plant biosecurity to assess the current disease threats to the UK and to make recommendations about how those threats could be addressed. The taskforce has produced an interim report which is also published today. Its recommendations are:
Develop a prioritised UK risk register for tree health and plant biosecurity;
Strengthen biosecurity to reduce risks at the border and within the UK;
Appoint a chief plant health officer to own the UK risk register and provide strategic and tactical leadership for managing those risks;
Review, simplify and strengthen governance and legislation;
Maximise the use of epidemiological intelligence from EU/other regions and work to improve the EU regulations concerned with tree and plant biosecurity;
Develop and implement procedures for preparedness and contingency planning to control the spread of disease;
Develop a modern, user-friendly, expert system to provide quick and intelligent access to data about tree health and plant biosecurity;
Identify and address key skills shortages.
I welcome these initial recommendations and look forward to receiving the taskforce’s final report in the spring.
I have arranged for copies of the interim control plan for Chalara and the interim report of the taskforce on tree health and plant biosecurity to be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.
However, Government alone cannot address this issue. Industry, landowners, environmental groups and the wider public all have an important part to play. Over the coming months, we will continue to work with all those who can play a role in developing innovative approaches to protecting our economy and the environment from the increasing threat posed by plant pests and diseases. I will return when I have considered the final recommendations from the taskforce, setting out my plans for radical action to reform our approach to plant and tree health in the light of the taskforce’s recommendations.
Agriculture and Fisheries Council
Owen Paterson Excerpts(11 years, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
The next Agriculture and Fisheries Council is on Wednesday 28 November and Thursday 29 November in Brussels. I will be representing the UK, accompanied by my hon. Friends the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, responsible for the natural environment, water and rural affairs, the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), and the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath). Richard Lochhead MSP, Alun Davies AM and Michelle O’Neill MLA will also attend.
The first day will cover agricultural issues. The discussion will cover common agricultural policy (CAP) reform. Specifically the proposals on direct payments, the single CMO regulation, and rural development. There is an any other business point regarding increased error rates in rural development and corrective/preventative actions.
The second day will be dedicated to fisheries issues. The Council will discuss a proposal on the fixing for 2013 and 2014 fishing opportunities for EU vessels for certain deep sea stocks, and the EU/Norway 2013 negotiations. There is an any other business point about the fixing of the total allowable catch (TAC) for Norway pout.
Balance of Competences Review
Owen Paterson Excerpts(11 years, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
I wish to inform the House that, further to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs’ oral statement launching the review of the balance of competences in July this year and the written statement on the progress of the review on 23 October 2012, Official Report, column 46WS, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Food Standards Agency have published their call for evidence relating to the animal health, welfare and food safety report. This report will cover animal health, animal welfare and food safety—including feed safety, food labelling, quality and compositional standards.
The call for evidence will be open for 12 weeks. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Food Standards Agency will draw together the evidence and policy analysis into a first draft which will subsequently go through a process of scrutiny before publication in summer 2013.
The report will focus on the issues associated with protecting animal health, welfare and food safety, where maintaining a strong internal market while allowing sufficient national and local choice on issues such as how to deal with risk creates some challenges and tensions. A key question for this review will be whether the benefits to the UK of protecting the functioning of the internal market justify the high level of EU competence in this area.
The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Food Standards Agency will take a rigorous approach to the collection and analysis of evidence. The call for evidence sets out the scope of the report and includes a series of broad questions on which contributors are requested to focus. Interested parties are invited to provide evidence with regard to political, economic, social and technological factors. The evidence received (subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Act) will be published alongside the final report in summer 2013 and will be available on the new Government website: www.gov.uk.
The Departments will pursue an active engagement process, consulting widely across Parliament and its Committees, the devolved Administrations, businesses and civil society in order to obtain evidence to contribute to our analysis of the issues. Our EU partners and the EU institutions will also be invited to contribute evidence to the review. As the review is to be objective and evidence-based, encouraging a wide range of interested parties to contribute will ensure a high yield of valuable information.
The resulting report will be a comprehensive, thorough and detailed analysis of what EU competence in the field of animal health and welfare and food and feed safety means for the UK. It will aid our understanding of the nature of our EU membership and will provide a constructive and serious contribution to the wider European debate about modernising, reforming and improving the EU. The report will not produce specific policy recommendations.
I am placing this document and the call for evidence in the Libraries of both Houses. They will also be published on the DEFRA and FSA websites and accessible through the balance of competences review pages on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website.
Flooding
Owen Paterson Excerpts(11 years, 11 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
With permission, Mr. Speaker, I shall make a statement on flooding.
The House will be aware of the exceptional rainfall that has been experienced over the last few days, and will also be aware that as a result some areas across the United Kingdom have been flooded and others continue to be at risk of flooding. The Environment Agency currently has 197 flood warnings and 291 flood alerts in place in England and Wales.
Tragically, three people lost their lives over the weekend. Two were men whose cars were caught up in flood water in Somerset and Cambridgeshire, and the third was a woman who was killed in Devon by a falling tree. I am sure that the whole House will wish to express its profound sympathy to the families and friends of those who have lost loved ones.
Heavy rainfall is not unusual at this time of year. However, we experienced bands of low pressure over the weekend, bringing often intense rainfall on catchments that are now saturated. Areas in the south-west of England, Wales and the midlands received 20 to 30 mm —over an inch—of rain in most places, and up to 50 to 60 mm—over 2 inches—fell in 24 hours elsewhere. Persistent rain will continue to affect much of northern England, south-east Scotland and north Wales today.
As a result of the rain, there has been significant river and surface water flooding in Cornwall, Devon, Wiltshire, Worcestershire, the midlands, Yorkshire and Wales, and there is a continued risk of significant flooding in parts of north-east England and north Wales. More than 900 properties have been flooded, of which up to 500 are in the south-west, more than 200 in the midlands and more than 100 in Wales. A great many people have been evacuated, and the numbers may well increase given the further rain forecast for today and early tomorrow.
The Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), visited Malmesbury in Wiltshire on Sunday, and saw for himself the damage caused by the flooding to homes in the centre of the town. I visited Northampton on Friday and Exeter and Kennford earlier today, and saw some of the devastation caused by the flooding there. I spoke to families who had had to leave their homes with their children in the middle of the night, and people who had flood water a good way up their walls. I really do want to praise the local Environment Agency and council staff, because this was a real example of partnership working in action.
I also feel desperately sorry for the residents of Kempsey, in Worcestershire, whose properties were flooded when the local pumps failed. The Environment Agency will be carrying out a detailed investigation into what happened.
Many areas, such as the Somerset levels, have experienced significant flooding of farmland. That has had a major impact on local farmers, who have lost grazing land and crops. In Somerset, which is still an area of serious concern, the Environment Agency is already working with the community to review the floods that have happened during 2012, and to consider how flood water could be better managed. The flooding has also disrupted road and rail networks. Many roads were closed, particularly in the south-west, in Solihull, across north Yorkshire, in Gloucestershire—including the M5—and in other areas, including County Durham and Teesside.
The main concerns for Network Rail have been the routes between Exeter and Taunton and between Exeter and Yeovil. The route between Exeter and Taunton was badly affected, with parts of the track under 2 feet of water. Buses have replaced trains in a number of areas. Some routes have reopened, although there may still be delays to some journeys. I saw some of the damaged track for myself, and since my visit I have discussed these issues with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport.
I extend my sincere thanks to the many people who responded so magnificently to these events. They include staff of fire, ambulance, police and other rescue services, local authorities, the Environment Agency, the voluntary sector and local communities. I appreciate how hard everyone has been working, and how difficult it is for those whose homes and businesses have been affected. I assure the House that the Environment Agency and its local emergency partners, including local authorities, are working round the clock and doing all they can to prevent flooding in areas currently at risk. My officials have been working closely with other Departments throughout the recent events.
Protecting our communities against flooding is a vital priority for the Government, and I am pleased to say that over the past few days nearly 50,000 properties have been protected by recently built flood defences. The Environment Agency issued flood warnings to over 93,000 properties, and such warnings are often crucial in giving people time to protect their properties or move precious belongings to somewhere safe. More than 1.1 million households have now signed up to the Environment Agency’s flood warning system, and I encourage others at high flood risk to do the same.
Nationally held flood rescue equipment was deployed to support local partners in Devon and Cornwall; six high-volume pumps were used and four boats were deployed, managed locally by the fire and rescue service national co-ordination centre. As flood waters recede, we will move into the recovery effort, which will need support from across central, regional and local government, as well as from businesses and voluntary organisations. I know that local communities are pulling together as recovery operations begin in earnest.
The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government will be activating the Bellwin scheme of emergency financial assistance to help local authorities with the immediate costs associated with protecting life and property in their areas. The scheme will reimburse local authorities for 85% of their eligible costs above the threshold. Government officials will also discuss recovery arrangements with local authorities in the areas affected.
The recent flooding has been a tragedy for those affected, and I finish by paying tribute to the wonderful community spirit that I, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury, and Members across the House have witnessed as communities rally round to support people in need. I shall, of course, keep the House informed of any further significant developments.
Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for his update.
I begin by paying tribute to the emergency services that worked to evacuate homes, rescue those who were stranded and keep people safe this weekend. I echo the Secretary of State’s thanks to staff of the Environment Agency and local councils who worked all weekend—and throughout the night on Saturday—clearing rivers and ensuring that flood defences were activated.
Hon. Members from across the House will wish to send their condolences to the family and friends of the three people who tragically lost their lives. With two months’ worth of rain set to fall in the north of the country today, we are not yet in the clear. The communities affected face months of disruption and upheaval. People who were cleaning up after the July floods have been flooded again, and some have been flooded more than once this week. Pubs that were looking forward to their busiest period are throwing out carpets and cancelling bookings.
The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs classes areas as being at low, medium or high risk of flooding. Have this week’s floods triggered the medium-risk threshold that activates the Cabinet Office civil contingencies secretariat? Will the Secretary of State tell the House how many schools, roads, railways and businesses have been affected across the country so far, and how many people have been evacuated? How many acres of productive farmland are under water, and what estimate has he made of crop losses to farmers?
The Secretary of State mentioned the Somerset levels, which rely on drainage boards. The Environment Agency, however, is already consulting on changes to flood management, pump houses and maintaining river courses. Will he guarantee that those operations will be protected in future? What contact has he had with the Department for Education to ensure that children whose schools have been flooded continue to be educated? What contact has he had with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on the recovery effort? Is he aware that there is no statutory obligation on fire services to respond to flood events, and does he share my concern that the current round of cuts to fire and rescue authorities, particularly in metropolitan areas, is reducing our resilience to flood events in future years?
The Secretary of State’s predecessor, the right hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), told the House in a written statement in June that central Government would cover 100% of local authority costs under the Bellwin scheme, yet today the Secretary of State has announced that just 85% of their costs will be met in the case of the latest floods. Why is that?
Councils have just one month after a flood incident to lodge with the DCLG a claim for reimbursement under Bellwin. However, Bellwin covers only the costs of immediate action to safeguard life and property, such as evacuation and rehousing, not the capital costs of road repairs. Just three of the 20 areas flooded last summer have reached the Bellwin threshold to receive any money at all from the Government. Have the Government made any payments to those three councils for the costs of the June and July floods? If, as I suspect, they have not, when can councils expect that money?
What measures has the Secretary of State put in place to help the other 17 councils whose claims did not meet the Bellwin threshold? Whether the Government cover 85% or 100% of the costs, their failure to help 17 of the 20 councils affected in the summer is no help at all. What funding will he put in place for major capital expenditure on damaged roads?
After the 2007 and 2009 floods, the Government set up the flood recovery grant as a one-off payment to councils to help households seriously affected by the floods. This Government have chosen not to help communities in that way. Why is that?
What support will the Government give to those who are under-insured or uninsured? The answer has to be more than warm tweets from the Prime Minister. As we move from response to recovery, flood-hit communities are growing more and more anxious about the availability and affordability of flood insurance. The Secretary of State’s predecessor told the House in June that
“we are at an advanced stage in intensive and constructive negotiations with the insurance industry”.—[Official Report, 25 June 2012; Vol. 547, c. 26.]
Yet the Association of British Insurers has stated today that a deal on the future of flood insurance has “stalled”. We were promised a deal in the spring, and then by July. It is now November. What has happened? If the deal is not done by the time of the autumn statement in just nine days, the risk of people being unable to insure, mortgage and eventually sell their home will rise exponentially. We must not have whole communities blighted because the Chancellor refuses to negotiate in good faith. When will he get a grip on the issue?
We know that every pound invested in flood defences saves £8 in costs further down the line, yet this Government have cut capital spending on flood defences by 30% from the 2010 baseline. They are spending less on flood defences now than we were five years ago in 2007. As a result, 294 flood defence schemes have been deferred or cancelled. Will the Secretary of State resist any pressure from the Treasury to cut flood defence spending in the next comprehensive spending review?
Last Monday in Westminster Hall, the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), told Members that
“while the flooding incidents of this summer were locally significant, we did not witness the devastating effects of previous years.”—[Official Report, 20 November 2012; Vol. 553, c. 93WH.]
Communities that have been devastated by flooding should not have to listen to Ministers telling them that their experience is not nationally significant. Today and this weekend, we have once again had a reminder that floods are the greatest threat that climate change poses to our country, and flood-hit communities deserve not to have to go through that terrible experience again.
Mr Paterson
I thank the hon. Lady for echoing my tributes to the Environment Agency, councils and all those who have worked so extraordinarily hard in recent days. I thank her also for expressing her sympathies to those who have lost relations and friends.
The hon. Lady asked detailed questions about the picture on schools, roads and crops. It is too early to tell, because the current weather is carrying on, and I think we had better review those questions when it settles down.
The hon. Lady mentioned local councils. We are co-ordinating the matter carefully and meeting DCLG on a regular basis, including on the subject of fire services. She mentioned the Bellwin scheme, which we have continued in exactly the same vein as the previous Government. There is a 0.2% threshold, and we have said that we will pay up to 85% of costs. We will keep that under review and keep assessing the situation as it develops.
The hon. Lady mentioned flood insurance. Today’s story is complete nonsense. The first meeting I had on taking office was with the ABI. We have had constructive and detailed discussions with it since, and there was a senior level meeting as recently as the end of last week. I am looking forward to receiving the ABI’s latest suggestions. We are determined to arrive at a replacement for the statement of principles that provides universality, is affordable and does not put a major burden on the taxpayer. I would like to remind the hon. Lady that the statement of principles covers 2003 to 2013, and we inherited absolutely nothing from the previous Government on this issue.
The hon. Lady mentioned spending on flood defences, and there is a complete canard about this reduction; our reduction is 6% over the whole spending round compared with what Labour spent over its spending round. I would have thought that she would have been pleased that our partnership scheme is really working, and a range of schemes that were just on the threshold and did not make the cut will now go ahead. In the last major incident, in 2007, 55,000 homes were flooded but this time the figure is 5,000 to 6,000. That is still traumatic for those households, and I repeat that my real sympathies are with those affected. I stress that we are continuing with a major programme of flood defence schemes to reduce the number further.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Today’s tragedy is truly of national proportions, but the response has been so much more effective after the Flood and Water Management Act 2010 came into effect. Will the Secretary of State revisit the damage done in September to the roads and bridges in north Yorkshire, which has now been made 10 times worse today? Will he also examine the impact on the community of operating theatres potentially closing at the Friarage hospital in Northallerton, as well as of school and road closures? There is something the Government could do to ease the impact of surface water flooding: introduce the regulations on sustainable urban drainage long before the deadline of 2014, which marks a huge delay from what was originally proposed.
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend mentioned various local issues relating to schools and roads, and I can tell her that we are meeting colleagues in other Departments on a regular basis. As the local MP, it is appropriate that she should raise those issues with those Departments, but I am happy to discuss them with her separately. On the issue of sustainable drainage systems, we intend to have an implementation date of April 2014, but this has turned out to be extremely complicated and we will have to work this out in detail to make sure we get it right.
Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State, together with his colleagues in government, examine the case for making targeted use of flood recovery grants for those in the most unhappy of circumstances?
Mr Paterson
I am very happy to look into that. If the right hon. Gentleman would like to write to me detailing a specific example, I am happy to take it up.
Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)
Not only are hundreds of homes in Cornwall flooded now, but they were flooded two years ago. What plans does the Secretary of State have to ensure that flood insurance remains affordable and available for communities such as mine in Cornwall, that have been devastated again and face the risk of not being able to get insurance?
Mr Paterson
We are clear that we want to arrive at a scheme that is affordable and is as comprehensive as possible, but that is not a burden on the Treasury. This is a real conundrum and we are determined to find a solution. We hope that we will find something that is better than the existing statement of principles.
Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)
The Secretary of State talks about something that is not a burden on the Treasury, but no country in the world has a free market in flood defences, as he knows very well. However, I thank him for coming to Exeter today and, through him, his Minister, for keeping in touch with me by phone over the weekend. The Secretary of State will know that Exeter narrowly escaped a flooding disaster over the weekend. It tops the south-west Environment Agency’s list of priority schemes for upgraded flood defence. The city and county councils have come up with money to help fill the shortfall left by his Government’s cuts. Will he now get together with the Environment Agency to come up with a scheme urgently, so that Exeter is safe in the years to come, given the greater threat of climate change?
Mr Paterson
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments and his question. I pay tribute to his constituents, who have rallied round magnificently in very difficult circumstances, particularly all those in the services whom I met today. I met his council leaders and stood on the bridge looking at the scheme, which has protected 6,000 properties in the heart of Exeter. We should pay tribute to that scheme, which is most effective. I was interested to learn that councils are thinking of taking up our offer of a partnership and are working with the Environment Agency, topping it up and making a scheme that is targeted at the local requirements. Such schemes will be decided on in the coming months.
Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
Those who have suffered terribly from flooding in Cornwall are uppermost in my mind. Will my right hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to the partnership between the emergency services in Cornwall, which do such a magnificent job, and the Environment Agency in particular, which introduced, with the Government’s help, a new programme that defended many homes and businesses in Truro from flooding?
Mr Paterson
I am very happy to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the Environment Agency and everyone in those different services and councils who have worked so hard on the ground and made an enormous difference.
Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)
The Secretary of State quite rightly praises the work of the emergency services. What will we do going forward given that fire services in places such as Tyne and Wear are having their budgets reduced by 35%, 1,500 local authority workers in Gateshead have been sacked and the Environment Agency in the north-east faces a 20% cut in resources? How will we manage these situations then? When will he stop putting ideology before practicality?
Mr Paterson
We have provided £2.5 million to fire authorities to help on this issue. Under very difficult circumstances—I do not want to make tiresome political points, but we inherited them from the previous Government—we have managed to hold up the investment in flood defence schemes. We are looking at a 6% reduction over the whole spending period compared with that over the previous spending period, which under the current circumstances shows the priority we are giving to these schemes.
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend carry out a full investigation into why maintenance is not always done properly, as that causes most of the flooding in my constituency? Will he also ensure that the Bellwin thresholds work for small county councils as well as for large ones?
Mr Paterson
Several Members have raised the question of keeping drainage channels clear. If my hon. Friend has specific examples, I urge him to take them up with his local officers in the Environment Agency, who understand the matter. If he does not like that, perhaps he will grab me directly after the statement.
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
Many people in my constituency trying to renew their yearly household insurance policies, which include protection against flooding, are now having difficulties because the statement of principles expires in seven months’ time. Does the Secretary of State not agree that the closer we get to June 2013 without an agreement, the more people will be left without that vital insurance or with paying a much higher premium through no fault of their own?
Mr Paterson
The hon. Lady is absolutely right. We want a solution to this conundrum, which is why we have been meeting the ABI regularly and why we are determined to get a good solution. There is no point in rushing into a scheme that will not work. Getting a balance is a difficult conundrum and we are determined to get it right.
Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. He is well aware of the effects flooding has on my constituency. Is it not time to develop a national strategy to ensure that the culverts, ditches, drains and waterways are regularly maintained and cleared? Is it not also very important to stop building houses in flood risk areas? Will he assure me that no inspector appointed by this Government will force councils such as Tewkesbury to build houses where it is inappropriate to do so?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right—making sure all those channels are kept clear is part of the management of them. In recent days, we have seen complete and total saturation of the land and no matter how clear some of the channels have been kept, there has been nowhere for the water to go. He is quite right to mention the channels—several Members have raised that point with me—and I will talk to the Environment Agency about it.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
Hull had 14,000 homes affected by the flooding in 2007 and the former Secretary of State said to me on the Floor of the House:
“I am proud that we have found a way forward with the insurance industry that, above all, guarantees that universal and affordable insurance remains available to all, including to her”—
my—
“constituents.”—[Official Report, 25 June 2012; Vol. 547, c. 30.]
Was she correct or incorrect to say that?
Mr Paterson
We are quite clear as a Government that we want to come up with a scheme that is affordable, as universal as possible and not a burden on the Treasury. We are working towards that, as was my right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), my predecessor.
Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con)
I am grateful that the Secretary of State mentioned the Somerset levels and glad that the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), is in his place. One of the problems the levels have had is that successive Governments have refused to spend money on the pumps that are brought in to try to clear them, and they are having to be brought in more and more. Will the Secretary of State, after the statement, please look urgently at upgrading the pump system across the Somerset levels, which cover my constituency and that of my hon. Friend?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. I took a train through the levels this afternoon on my way back, and they looked like the Irrawaddy in spate. I must say that it is a huge challenge for any pump system to keep that huge volume of water clear. If he would like to write to me, I would be more than happy to take the matter up with local Environment Agency officers.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
I note that the Secretary of State did not answer part of the question on development on floodplains. Developers in Formby and Lydiate in my constituency want to build on farmland that often floods. Will he ensure that the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government do not prevail in their desire to force through development in areas, such as my constituency, that already have a significant problem with flooding?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me the chance to clarify this. The national planning policy framework is absolutely clear that development should be located away from flood risk wherever possible.
Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the consequences of the current flooding is the impact on transport links? The train I took to London last night was slightly delayed due to flooding, but severe disruption in the east midlands followed. Will he confirm that he is of course liaising with colleagues in the Department for Transport on the matter?
Mr Paterson
I am happy to confirm that at official level we are working and talking with Department for Transport officials on a daily basis. One of the first calls I made after leaving Taunton today was to the Secretary of State for Transport, who had already been on the case to get the Exeter line reopened. We hope to see services resume tomorrow.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
Unpredictable weather events are one of the main consequences of climate change. Does the Secretary of State not understand that if he continues to resist the scientific evidence and refuses to take sensible policy measures to prevent climate change, his successors for years to come will have to come to this House to make statements such as the one he has made this afternoon? [Interruption.]
Mr Paterson
I wish I had such extraordinary powers. The fact is that we have to react and adapt to the weather, and that is what the Government are doing.
Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con)
In recent months, and this weekend, constituents of mine have woken up to flooding. Today, loss assessors are visiting constituents in the village of Saxton and bridges are still closed in Cattal. On Saturday I visited a Kelfield farmer, Richard Bramley, some of whose land is in a floodplain designed to help protect the village of Cawood. Thankfully, the flood defences worked, but Mr Bramley has lost more than £50,000-worth of crops. As flooding is becoming increasingly frequent, does the Secretary of State agree with Mr Bramley and me that the management of the water system does not appear to be keeping pace with changing weather conditions?
Mr Paterson
That is why we are putting this huge sum of money into flood defence schemes and encouraging partnerships with local government and, on the ground, with individuals and farmers, such as the one my hon. Friend cites, working with local drainage boards and councils to ensure that there is a co-ordinated approach.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I would like to thank the Secretary of State for not blaming Opposition Members for the weather and join him in paying tribute to the emergency services, especially the fire and rescue services in the north-east, particularly in Durham and Teesside, who have been doing such a terrific job. Does he share my concern that in areas such as my constituency we are gradually losing resilience due to cuts in front-line fire and rescue budgets at a time when floods are becoming an increasingly common phenomenon?
Mr Paterson
I was in Northampton on Friday and talked to the senior fire officer there. I echo the hon. Gentleman’s congratulations, as have we all, to those in the fire service and others who have been working so hard. The reaction I got from Northampton fire brigade was that they have been thoroughly involved in evacuating a number of people, and I am sure that we will see the same sort of dedication in the north-east.
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
May I join the Secretary of State in mourning the deaths of the three people, particularly the gentleman in Chew Stoke who was washed to his death in spite of the very valiant efforts of the fire brigade to rescue him? May I thank the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who has assured Bath and North East Somerset council that it will be given every help following the floods? May I raise an issue that has been brought to my attention by constituents who are concerned that silt is not being dealt with because of esoteric wildlife issues, and ask whether this policy will be reconsidered?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments and wholly endorse them. The issue of keeping watercourses clear has been raised by other Members. I am absolutely clear in my own mind that the purpose of these watercourses is to get water away, and I will be discussing the issue with the Environment Agency.
Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)
The Secretary of State dismissed the discussions between the ABI and the Government on flood risk insurance as utter nonsense. He said categorically that the Government face a conundrum. Perhaps he can tell the House what that conundrum is.
Mr Paterson
I am glad to clarify my earlier comments if the hon. Gentleman wants me to. What I said was nonsense is the concept that the talks had stalled. Only at the end of last week we had, at the most senior level, a very constructive meeting with the ABI, as has been going on in recent weeks. We are quite clear—I will repeat this again—that we want to get to a system that is affordable, that is as comprehensive as possible—
Mr Paterson
I will explain the conundrum to the hon. Gentleman if he will stop interrupting. We also want a system that is not a burden on the Treasury. That is not an easy series of demands to meet. We are absolutely determined to keep working in a constructive manner with the ABI, and we are currently waiting for it to come back to us. However, no doubt to the hon. Gentleman’s disappointment, I am not prepared to negotiate on the Floor of the House of Commons.
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
Having been hit particularly badly earlier in the year and now with these floods, North Yorkshire county council is very worried about capital expenditure not being included in the compensation scheme. Will the Secretary of State arrange for civil servants in his Department to have a direct conversation with the council, which is having trouble getting an answer on this?
Mr Paterson
Probably the best thing would be for my hon. Friend to have a meeting with my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary to go into the detail of the case.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
What consultations is my right hon. Friend having with local councils and the Highways Agency to ensure that existing roads that do not have sufficient surface water drainage capacity will be made a priority for investment?
Mr Paterson
As I said, we are having daily meetings with other Ministries such as the Department for Transport. I talked to the Secretary of State for Transport this afternoon, and we will continue in that vein. If my hon. Friend is concerned about a particular road, he should write to the Secretary of State to take it up directly with him.
Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for his reassurance on the renewal of the statement of principles. On 11 June this year, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton were severely affected by flooding, with hundreds of homes flooded following 36 hours of intense rainfall. West Sussex county council, as the lead statutory authority, is about to publish a detailed report into the implications of those floods. Will he ensure that Southern Water is encouraged and enabled by the regulator to allocate all the capital that is needed to upgrade surface water drainage systems so that weaknesses in the current system are strengthened and people can feel safe in their homes?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend raises a very important point—the key role played by water companies, which have an absolutely essential task in managing water. The Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury and I will be happy to discuss the particular case that he mentioned.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
May I thank my right hon. Friend for this morning visiting Kennford, a small village in my constituency that has been overwhelmed by the flooding, and affording me the time to discuss the situation with him? Will he join me in thanking in particular Martin Weiler and his team at the EA, who have done such extraordinary work in the village in reassuring people, providing information, and so on?
Mr Paterson
I am sorry that my hon. Friend could not be there in person, but I much appreciate him ringing me in the car as I arrived. I would like to pay tribute to Martin Weiler, his team and all those from the Environment Agency whom I met and spent time with when I went to Kennford. I want to stress how completely awful it was to see those houses in Kennford. There was a thick black line about three feet off the ground, everything in people’s downstairs rooms was completely wrecked and all the electrical appliances were gone. All of that happened in an extraordinarily short amount of time—people were hit by the rapidly rising water over the course of about an hour on Saturday evening. It was shocking and I pay tribute to all the local agencies that I met, the local councils and the local community for how they are pulling together.
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State and Ministers for keeping us informed by phone about the problems. I have had flooding in Bampton, Tiverton and Cullompton, and the canal has broken its banks at Holberton. Feniton has now flooded in 2007, 2008 and 2012. One of the problems is that, although the local authorities have resisted more houses, the inspector has allowed them, despite flooding in the village. We need to ensure that inspectors have the same views on flooding as the Government and local authorities.
Mr Paterson
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s constituents, who are stoic under these very difficult circumstances. I stress that the NPPF is absolutely clear on this: it is the intention that developments should not happen on floodplains. He is absolutely right to raise the issue and he should bring it to the attention of all those involved in planning locally.
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
One of the biggest challenges for residents in Calder Valley who suffered from flooding over the summer is ongoing insurance for both business and residents. On the scheme to replace the statement of principles to ensure there is affordable insurance for those properties most at risk, will the Secretary of State update the House on whether the Government will consider assisting the industry by providing a temporary overdraft, to be paid back with interest, for the proposed not-for-profit scheme, which, of course, would not be a burden on the taxpayer?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for trying to tempt me into negotiating in public but, as I have said many times today, we are involved in a long negotiation with the ABI. We had a very constructive meeting at senior level last week, are waiting for its counter-proposals and I am afraid that I cannot go into the sort of detail that he has asked me to on the Floor of the House.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
Given your first-hand experience of this flooding, what advice would you—sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker; I mean the Secretary of State—give to those who seek to build on floodplains?
Mr Paterson
I am not sure what plans you have, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I would strongly advise all those who are considering developments around the country to look very hard at the NPPF, which says that developments should not happen on floodplains wherever possible.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and, in particular, his concern for residents in Worcestershire who have been flooded. Worcester city suffered badly in 2007 but, partly as the result of improved flood defences, I have yet to hear of a home being flooded there and hope that that will not happen. My constituents are concerned about their ability to get insurance, as are local businesses. May I offer my strong support to the Secretary of State in his attempts to get a deal with the insurance companies as soon as possible?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I was in his city on Friday evening at a dinner for one of his parliamentary neighbours and discussed the issue with people who may have been constituents of his. He is right that we have to work through this negotiation and get a good deal on insurance that is satisfactory to all parties.
Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)
In addition to those that the Secretary of State has already praised, will he mention South West Water, the transport companies, which have done a great job today, and, crucially, the local media? Will he also address the public concerns in Devon about the resilience of our infrastructure, particularly Cowley bridge, which controls rail in and out of the county to Paddington, the Clennon valley pumping station in my constituency, which deals with most of the sewerage in Torbay, and roads throughout Devon that were cut off from the rest of Devon at some point over the weekend?
Mr Paterson
I went to Cowley bridge to look at the damage to the railway line and I am pleased to say that it will be mended by tomorrow, which will be a triumph for those involved, because I was told that something like 200 tonnes of aggregate had shifted. The hon. Gentleman is right to raise a number of detailed issues, and they will have to be worked through by local councils and agencies. I was impressed by the resilience of all those affected by events in recent days and I have every confidence that they will see their way through this situation.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
West Worcestershire has had the benefit of six new flood defence schemes since 2007. They have protected 360 homes and more than £8 million has been spent on them. Sadly, the Kempsey pump failed on Sunday morning, and I pay tribute to the engineers and emergency workers who came out in the middle of the night to fix it. When the investigation discovers the cause of the incident, will the Environment Agency seek compensation from the manufacturers of the pump, and how will it get that compensation to the home owners whose homes were flooded? How will the situation resolve itself in the long term in respect of the insurance for those homes?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the situation in Kempsey. It was sickening that, according to my knowledge, the pump failed at 4 am. The scheme was designed to protect 70 properties, but 20 of those were damaged. A detailed investigation into what happened is taking place. I congratulate the Environment Agency on getting the pump going again. I believe that it had tripped out. There will be detailed results from the investigation and we will take the matter further when we see them.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
I congratulate and thank the agencies in Gloucestershire for dealing so well with the various transport challenges and the localised flooding. Will the Department consider further attenuation schemes, which have some attraction in my constituency?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend raises a good point. During my train journey back from Taunton today, I saw graphically the extraordinary volume of water that has landed in such a short time. The areas that have been set aside as soaks have become completely saturated. He is right that having such small-scale schemes down the road can be very helpful and we will certainly look at that.
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
What discussions is the Secretary of State having with his colleagues in the Welsh Government, given that the management of Welsh rivers has a profound effect on the risk of flooding in England?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend makes a good point. Rivers do not respect political boundaries. We are keeping in touch with all Ministries and Government agencies.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
I thank the Secretary of State for coming to the House and informing us in such detail of what is happening and what he has been doing over the past few days. Flooding is occurring on the embankment in Wellingborough. Northamptonshire’s fire brigade and local councils are doing an excellent job. Like other Members, I ask the Secretary of State to look again at the issue of building on the floodplain, because regional spatial strategies forced councils to have residential homes in areas where they opposed them.
Mr Paterson
I went very close to my hon. Friend’s patch on Friday and saw the scheme that worked incredibly effectively in protecting Northampton town. The Nene was tamed. He rightly says that the huge wet area was saturated. I saw a permanent caravan site that had been badly flooded and a large number of people had been evacuated. I pay tribute to all the agencies in his area that I met: the Environment Agency, the police, the fire service and the local council. He is right that it is completely barmy to build on floodplains. I want to drill it in to everyone who is listening that the NPPF makes it very clear that that is a bad idea and that it should not happen.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I thank the Secretary of State for making that statement on such an important issue.
Ash Tree Dieback
Owen Paterson Excerpts(11 years, 12 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
Further to my response to the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) at DEFRA questions on 25 October, Official Report, column 1064, and my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome’s (Mr Heath) response to an urgent question on 29 October, Official Report, columns 23-31, I would like to update the House on the ash dieback situation in the UK.
Following a shortened consultation, I imposed an import ban and strict movement restrictions on ash on 29 October. Chalara fraxinea was first confirmed in imported stock in a nursery on 7 March. We initiated an exercise to trace young ash saplings from infected imported stock. This exercise continues. However, we found the disease in mature trees in East Anglia on 22 October. Further searches revealed more cases already present in the wider environment.
In response to this I initiated an unprecedented survey of the whole of the UK, in partnership with the devolved Administrations, to map the extent of the disease. This has involved over 500 staff and volunteers looking for signs of the disease in around 2,500 10-kilometre squares. Four wooded sites were inspected in each square giving us a preliminary indication of the disease’s extent and distribution. That work was completed on 7 November.
The results of the survey show that, as of yesterday, there are 129 confirmed sites with ash dieback caused by the fungus Chalara fraxinea. Some 15 of these are in nursery stock, 50 are in recently planted sites, and 64 are in the wider environment. To date no evidence of ash dieback has been found in Northern Ireland. In addition, the Country Land and Business Association and a number of other organisations have mobilised their members to provide additional information on suspected cases. Regular updates, including the map of confirmed disease in Great Britain, and information for the public can be found on the Forestry Commission’s website:
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara.
On 7 November I held a summit of more than 100 experts from the forestry industry and environmental groups to advise me on how we can best tackle this disease. This provided an opportunity to share the latest evidence and the current state of our scientific knowledge. The summit also identified ideas for tackling Chalara in the short term and for improving our approach to dealing with threats to tree health in the longer term.
The evidence from the survey and the experts gathered together on Wednesday indicates that the Chalara infection has been present in the natural environment in Great Britain for some years.
Also on the 7 November, we published an evidence summary compiled over the past week by a group of experts convened by DEFRA’s chief scientific adviser, Professor Ian Boyd. The scientific advice from that group is that where the disease is present in the natural environment, this is likely to be due to spores blown in on the wind from continental Europe. Their advice is that it will not be possible to eradicate Chalara.
That does not necessarily mean the end of the British ash. If we can slow the spread of the disease, this will give us time to investigate resistance to Chalara in the UK tree population. In the longer term, we will also need to consider how best to restructure our woodlands to improve their resilience. I provided a copy of the evidence summary to all hon. Members on Wednesday and I will also place it in the Libraries of both Houses.
I am today announcing a series of short-term actions to begin to address the problem quickly.
1. Newly planted diseased trees and diseased trees in nurseries will be traced and destroyed, as once young trees are infected they succumb quickly.
2. Mature trees will not currently be removed, as they are valuable to wildlife, take longer to die and can help us learn more about genetic strains that might be resistant to the disease. Infection does not occur directly from tree to tree.
3. Better understanding of the disease will be built through research and surveys, which will look not only for diseased trees but for those that show signs of resistance to Chalara, to help identify genetic strains resistant to the disease.
4. The search for the disease will include trees in towns and cities as well as the countryside, building partnerships with a range of organisations beyond Government.
5. Foresters, land managers, environmental groups and the public will be informed about how to identify diseased trees and those likely to be resistant to the disease, and know what to do if they find a diseased tree.
For now, the main control measure is the ban on imports and movements. Infection in mature trees is not a threat at this time of year as they are not producing spores. The main risk to manage between now and the spring is the movement of infected ash leaf litter for which we have already provided advice to the public, local authorities and landowners.
By the end of November I will publish a more detailed control plan which delivers our objectives for tackling Chalara by considering the following:
Designating protected zones, to free up trade in ash from areas free of the disease through authorising businesses to issue “plant passports”.
Establishing a tree health early warning network to provide advice, screening and initial diagnostics.
Developing advice on protecting saplings and responding rapidly if the disease is found.
Developing advice on sustainable management of mature trees on sites affected by Chalara.
What additional equipment is needed to diagnose tree disease.
Improved biosecurity including import controls; and
More public engagement in helping diagnose and tackle disease through “citizen science” including an OPAL (Open Air Laboratories) citizen science project.
For the longer term, I am also considering our strategic approach to the threat of disease to our plants and trees in the light of experience of responding to Chalara. In early October, I asked Professor Ian Boyd to convene an expert taskforce on tree health and plant biosecurity. I am prepared to consider radical proposals to protect the woodland environment and I look forward to seeing his interim proposals at the end of November. I will update the House when I have received that report.
Agriculture and Fisheries Council
Owen Paterson Excerpts(12 years ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
The Agriculture and Fisheries Council on 22 to 24 October in Luxembourg was attended by the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who is responsible for natural environment, water and rural affairs.
On fisheries, the Council agreed a partial general approach on the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund. The UK worked successfully to secure an outcome in line with UK priorities for common fisheries policy (CAP) reform. This will focus funding on measures to increase the sustainability of fishing, and limit or remove more traditional fleet subsidy payments. Baltic sea fishing opportunities for 2013 were agreed, following detailed preparation in the BALTFISH group of concerned member states. Ministers also held an initial exchange of views on forthcoming EU-Norway fisheries consultations and on the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tuna annual meeting.
On agriculture business, the Council discussed the Commission’s proposal under CAP reform that member states should all move towards flat rate per hectare direct payments at a national or regional level (internal convergence); an issue which was last debated in April 2012. This is a major political issue for many member states, and also has direct relevance to those parts of the UK which do not yet have a per hectare payment system. The Commission (Commissioner Ciolos) argued that for CAP reform to be credible, direct payments had to move away from historic allocations. The Commission would consider alternative models as long as they delivered significant convergence during the next financing period. All member states accepted the need for some internal convergence of payments, with an emphasis on national flexibility over the pace and detailed steps towards convergence. The presidency noted the discussion and variety of views without giving an indication of next steps.
The presidency sought views on whether the proposed young farmer’s scheme in pillar one of the CAP should be voluntary or mandatory. The Council debate was split between those who wanted to leave it to member states to decide, and those who wanted, or could accept, a mandatory scheme in pillar one. The UK and like-minded member states argued for a flexible approach.
The presidency sought views on whether recognition of agricultural producer organisations should be mandatory for member states. France, Spain, Hungary and Portugal were in favour of mandatory recognition of extending producer organisations’ rights to all agricultural sectors. In advance of the Council, the UK, Germany, Denmark, Estonia, Sweden and the Czech Republic tabled a joint paper calling for CAP tools to promote greater market orientation, while maintaining a safety net.
The Commission presented its proposal on transparency of data on CAP beneficiaries, under which names and payment details would be made publically available, and which is intended to reintroduce greater transparency following a 2010 European Court of Justice ruling.
Oral Answers to Questions
Owen Paterson Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
5. What recent progress he has made on flood insurance.
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
The availability and affordability of insurance in flood-risk areas is an important issue for this Government. We are in intense yet constructive negotiations with the insurance industry on a range of approaches that could succeed the current statement of principles. In the meantime, the Government are continuing to invest in managing the risk of flooding. We are on course to exceed our target to provide better protection to 145,000 households by March 2015.
Mr Paterson
I am sorry the hon. Lady is disappointed. Within two days of taking office I had a meeting with Otto Thoresen, the head of the Association of British Insurers. We are engaged in detailed discussions, which I obviously cannot reveal, because we do not negotiate in public. However, I reassure the hon. Lady that the Government take this matter very seriously. We know that the statement of principles runs out next year and that it must be replaced—I hope by something that is more comprehensive and effective.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
About 450,000 homes and properties in the country are at risk of flooding. People will find it increasingly difficult to obtain flood insurance, particularly for properties that are built on functional floodplains. Will the Secretary of State take a lead, with his colleague the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, to end house building in totally inappropriate areas? Builders leave, developers go away and home owners are left with no insurance.
Mr Paterson
I thank my hon. Friend for that question. She is aware that it was agreed in the national planning policy framework that there would be no more building on floodplains. She is quite right that it is absolutely idiotic to build houses in such inappropriate places. However, I reassure her, too, that the Government take this matter seriously. We want to find a solution that follows from the statement of principles, but that is better and more comprehensive.
Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)
I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his new role as Secretary of State and to his first DEFRA questions. When he took up his new position, was he briefed by his civil servants that the number of schemes deferred had risen, that spending on defences had fallen, that climate change meant that flood risk had risen and that this announcement was dangerously overdue?
Mr Paterson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for welcoming me to my new post.
We are spending £2.17 billion on flood defences. I have visited Nottingham and was in Northwich recently, and there is real value in these schemes, which is why, despite the difficult financial circumstances we inherited from the last Government, these schemes saw only a 6% reduction. They are really good value.
James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)
Many residents in Halesowen were badly affected by flooding in 2008 and are concerned about whether they will be able to obtain appropriate flood insurance in the future. Will the Secretary of State reassure them, as I think he already has, that they will be able to obtain appropriate flood insurance and that the Government are doing everything possible to ensure that they can do so?
Mr Paterson
I would like to reassure my hon. Friend emphatically that we are determined to arrive at a solution to this problem that—I repeat—provides availability and affordability to those who might suffer from floods.
Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)
6. What steps he is taking to ensure that rural areas have access to reliable and high-speed broadband.
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
I recently met my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to discuss speeding up the roll-out of the £530 million rural broadband programme. Together, we are determined to deliver this quickly in order to provide 90% of premises with superfast broadband at 24 megabits per second and elsewhere with standard broadband of at least 2 megabits per second by 2015. The Government’s £20 million rural community broadband fund helps extend superfast broadband in the most rural locations.
Dr Lee
Many of the good people of Bracknell and Finchampstead have long had to suffer from poor broadband access despite my constituency being close to the heart of the UK’s IT industry. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is vital that the Government make the right decisions so that all my constituents can take full advantage of the digital revolution?
Mr Paterson
I entirely sympathise with my hon. Friend. If he thinks it is bad in Bracknell, he should come to North Shropshire. This is an absolute priority for us. At one bound, broadband overcomes the centuries-long disadvantage of working in a rural area. We are determined to roll it out, which is why I am working closely with my Cabinet colleagues and why we have relaxed the planning constraints for five years—to get this through and done.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
No, Secretary of State: come to Rathlin Island—the situation there is absolutely abominable. It is an island off an island that requires reliable broadband so that people who require medical scripts and everything else can get them quickly. I hope that he rolls out the new broadband service across the whole of the UK, including Ulster and Rathlin Island.
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for inviting me to Rathlin Island. He will be pleased to know that I was there a few months ago, in my previous post—it has the most wonderful puffin reserve, which is well worth visiting. He touched on health, which is an important element. We all think about the business angle, but there are real advantages in delivering health care in rural areas. Another key element is helping elderly people, for whom it is a boon, when they are isolated, to be able to contact their relations, shop online and stay in touch with the real world.
Mr Speaker
As we are undertaking a Cook’s tour, we might hear about broadband in Cornwall.
Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)
I am happy to focus on broadband across rural areas, Mr Speaker.
Will the Secretary of State ensure that all the programmes that the Government are funding, such as the one in Cornwall, which involves European Union structural funds, prioritise the areas that are still on dial-up? I am concerned that we are concentrating on superfast broadband—areas that some companies would have got to in a few years anyway—when we need to prioritise those still on dial-up.
Mr Paterson
I entirely sympathise with my hon. Friend’s comments about the problems in rural areas—I have already touched on the problems in my constituency. It is an absolute priority for us to get functioning broadband that works right across the country by 2015.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
This week I met representatives of the Federation of Small Businesses, who were almost as eloquent as the Secretary of State in expressing the desire of small businesses in rural areas to play their part in reviving the rural economy. However, they cannot do so because of a lack of rural broadband. Will the Secretary of State admit that abolishing Labour’s universal broadband pledge—a pledge to bring broadband to everybody by the end of this year—was a huge mistake?
Mr Paterson
I am happy to accept the hon. Lady’s comment on my eloquence, but I do not accept her criticism of what we are doing. We think that what we are doing is going to work. We are working closely with the European Commission, with local government and with BT and the other providers. We have to get this done. We have a plan and we are going to deliver it.
Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)
7. What steps he is taking to support rural businesses in Staffordshire.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
12. What recent evidence he has considered on the effects of badger populations on dairy herds.
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
The badger culling pilots, which we now plan for next year, will test the effectiveness, safety and humaneness of controlled shooting. Our plans for an independent expert panel to oversee the design and analysis of the data collection have not changed. Monitoring will include field observations and post-mortems. If monitoring indicates that controlled shooting is an acceptable technique, the policy will be rolled out more widely.
Graeme Morrice
Obviously, I am aware that there will be a major debate on this subject later today, but may I ask the Secretary of State why DEFRA got the number of badgers living in each pilot cull area so wrong? Why did he undertake a survey only last month, weeks before the cull was due to start?
Mr Paterson
The answer is that we did not get the numbers wrong: we got them accurately and in a scientific manner, but the National Farmers Union, which had geared up for a lower number, requested that we postpone the culls. We and the NFU are following the science rigorously.
Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)
But if we do not proceed with the culls next year is not the risk that the impact on farmers’ livelihoods and mental health will continue? This is a dreadful disease and it is extremely distressing to farmers that they have to cope with it.
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is not just the trauma of the appalling loss—26,000 cattle last year—but every time a herd is tested it is difficult for farmers. Some animals become violent, and the disease, not just the culling, is causing regular stress. It is essential that we go ahead with the culls next summer and prove that they work, so that we bear down on disease in wildlife and in cattle.
Bridget Phillipson
If the cull does not go ahead, what is the risk that the Secretary of State will be sued by farmers for the losses they will incur, and what will the chaos cost the taxpayer?
Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)
Will my right hon. Friend explain why circumstances next year will be different from those this year, enabling the culls to go ahead and reduce the incidence of bovine TB and not spread it?
Mr Paterson
I explained at some length in my statement the other day, in which I spoke for, I think, 90 minutes, that certain circumstances led to the NFU’s decision to request that we postpone. There will be time to prepare. There will be no hitches next year: we will deliver this policy.
Mr Sheerman
The Minister might be aware that I made myself very unpopular among Labour Members when I voted against the ban on hunting with dogs. I therefore know what it is like to make an unpopular decision, but the badger cull is wrong: it is wrong because these wonderful creatures roamed this country before we did and it is wrong because it would destroy tens of thousands of living animals. There is no scientific evidence that it would do any good, so the Secretary of State should stop listening to farmers and listen to the great British public and Mr Brian May.
Mr Paterson
I respect the hon. Gentleman for his independence of judgment but—I am sorry—we disagree. The science is clear: after nine years there was a 28% reduction in the culled area. If we look at New Zealand, Australia or the Republic of Ireland—I talked to a farmer in France on Monday—we see that there is not a single country that is struggling with TB in its cattle industry that is not bearing down on wildlife and cattle, and we will do that.
Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State blames the NFU for stopping the cull and the media blame No.10, but either way we can all understand the Secretary of State’s reluctance to take responsibility for this setback. May I ask him, on a scale of one to 100—I know that is a risky prospect, as arithmetic is not his Department’s strongest suit—how likely it is that the cull will go ahead next June?
Mr Paterson
I am not blaming anybody. I have been working very closely with the NFU since I took office. I have been studying this issue since I was the shadow spokesman and put down 600 questions, taking a serious, detailed interest in it. This is the right policy. It is the policy pursued by every other country, as I have said. Unlike with the vapid pronouncements we have had from the Opposition, this Government will take on a deadly disease, which is a zoonosis, so if we do not get a grip on it, it will prove a risk to human beings.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
In view of that and of my right hon. Friend’s answer, it is important to base things on sound science. If he has read the science and understands the answers he has received to the 600 questions, he will know that the 12% to 16% reduction has to be viewed against a rise elsewhere. It will not rise as much as it would have done otherwise, but it is still a rise in bovine TB. Does he not accept that?
Mr Paterson
No, I dislike disagreeing with the hon. Gentleman, with whom I used to work closely on the EFRA Committee and when I was the shadow spokesman. The evidence is absolutely clear: there was a 28% reduction in disease after nine years in the cull area. That is why we are going ahead next year.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
10. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Financial Reporting Council in respect of mandatory carbon reporting.
Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
I begin by paying tribute to the great work done by my right hon. Friends the Members for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) and for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice). I want to build on their efforts over the past two years by galvanising the rural economy while improving the environment. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome this morning’s growth figures. We should not all jump at one set of figures, but growth of 1% is significant, and I really want the rural economy to play a part in future growth. Abroad, I will represent the United Kingdom in the European negotiations and I will promote British exports at every opportunity.
Mr Allen
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new responsibilities. Does he know that in my constituency the big water users such as textiles and brewers are now in decline—and many have disappeared—with the consequence that the water table is rising? Will he meet me, representatives from the city of Nottingham and the Local Government Authority to discuss sustainable urban defences against flooding? Would he please meet us soon?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. Happily, I was in Nottingham during my first week in office, looking at a £45 million flood defence scheme. I thought it was brilliant, not only in protecting 16,000 houses but, more importantly—I did not realise this until I went there—revealing 500 acres of previously blighted land that is now open for development by the private sector. I am interested in what he has to say. I will work on this issue with the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who is the big expert, so it might be better for him to meet the hon. Gentleman.
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
T2. I was encouraged by the Secretary of State’s earlier comments on fixed line broadband, improving accessibility, reducing red tape and speeding up the planning process. Will he reassure me that that action extends to mobile communications in rural areas, as we need to extend the mast size and reduce red tape in this sector, too?
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
T6. In response to the recent statement on the badger cull in the House of Lords, the noble Lord Krebs urged Ministers to gather together scientific experts and rethink the Government’s strategy altogether. Why does the Secretary of State not do just that?
Mr Paterson
We have been over this ground on several occasions during the last few days. We are absolutely clear about the fact that the scientific analysis of the trials conducted by the Government that the hon. Lady supported show a 28% reduction in the culled area. That is the information that we are going on, because it is scientifically based.
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
T3. What steps is the Department taking to deal with ash dieback disease?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue. There were reports on the radio this morning about the horrific danger to our 80 million ash trees. We have already launched a consultation on the ground, involving a detailed investigation into whether the disease has taken root in the country. The results of that consultation will be reported to me tomorrow, and I shall discuss it over the weekend with the head of the Forestry Commission. However, on the basis of the evidence that we have seen so far, I intend to introduce a ban on imports and tight restrictions on ash movements in Great Britain on Monday.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
T7. We were told that the Government would help local authorities with the costs of the floods. Now we have been told that those in Newcastle do not count, and that the city council will have to find £10 million from a budget that is being halved by the Government. Why is it that in Newcastle we have the wrong sort of water?
Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)
Towards the end of last week I met a constituent whose new insurance premium has gone up by some 8%. She lives in an area that has occasionally been flooded, and the massive increase plus the excessive excess means this lady will have to abandon her home. Does the Minister know how many businesses and residential properties are now being abandoned because people cannot afford flood insurance?
Mr Paterson
The hon. Gentleman makes a highly pertinent point. The statement of principles is not working at present, and affordability is a key part of that. I have meetings coming up shortly with the Association of British Insurers and I will establish its latest figures, but we want to resolve this: we are determined to get to the bottom of it, because I totally sympathise with people such as the hon. Gentleman’s constituent.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
Can the Minister confirm that the moneys available in the rural community broadband fund that come from the European Union will not be subject to European state aid rules?
Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)
The Secretary of State should have banned the import of ash seedlings the minute disease was found in nurseries in this country. He will not be forgiven for any delay by the people of this country, who so value the ash trees. Will he ensure that the Forestry Commission has all the resources it needs to be able to confront this terrible threat?
Mr Paterson
I think the right hon. Lady is being pretty unfair. The minute we heard about this, we launched a consultation. That will report tomorrow. On the basis of evidence—[Interruption.] All the right hon. Lady’s colleagues are shouting at me about evidence and science-based information, and from tomorrow evening I will look at the evidence, and if it is sensible to ban imports, I will take that decision and make restrictions on Monday.
George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)
I congratulate the Secretary of State on his Department’s announcement last week of the launch of an agricultural science strategy. Does he agree that British agricultural science has the potential to boost our great industry and support emerging markets around the world?
Bovine TB and Badger Control
Owen Paterson Excerpts(12 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
I am delighted that my presence has received such a welcome.
Bovine TB is the most pressing animal health problem in the UK. The importance of the epidemic for our cattle farmers, their families and their communities cannot be overemphasised. This was once a disease isolated to small pockets of the country; it has now spread extensively through the west of England and Wales. The number of new cases has doubled every nine years. Last year, TB led to the slaughter of 26,000 cattle in England at a cost of nearly £100 million. In the past 10 years, bovine TB has cost the taxpayer £500 million. It is estimated that this will rise to £1 billion over the next decade if the disease is left unchecked.
The task of managing bovine TB and bringing it under control is difficult and complex. The Government are committed to using all the tools at their disposal and to continuing to develop new ones as a package of measures to tackle the disease. In high-risk areas, herds are tested annually and any cattle that test positive are slaughtered. Restrictions on cattle movements have been further strengthened to reduce the chance of disease spreading from cattle to cattle. Only last week, we announced plans for a new surveillance testing regime and stricter cattle movement controls. We also continue to look at ways to improve the testing of cattle for TB.
Research in this country over the past 15 years has demonstrated that cattle and badgers can transmit the disease to each other; culling badgers can lead to a reduction of the disease in cattle if it is carried out over a large enough area and for a sufficient length of time. That is why we believe that, based on the best available evidence, culling badgers to control TB can make a significant contribution.
It is crucial that we get this right. The National Farmers Union has taken the lead on behalf of the farming industry to plan and organise the pilot culls. It has been working tirelessly over the past few months, signing up farmers and landowners in the pilot areas and ensuring that contractors are property trained. I have been immensely impressed by the effort, commitment and determination that have been demonstrated by farmers in the two pilot areas. I am also most grateful to the police in the two areas for their support.
The exceptionally bad weather this summer has put a number of pressures on our farmers and caused significant problems. Protracted legal proceedings and the request of the police to delay the start until after the Olympics and Paralympics have meant that we have moved beyond the optimal time for delivering an effective cull. We should have begun in the summer. In addition to these problems, the most recent fieldwork has revealed that badger numbers in the two areas are significantly higher than previously thought, which only highlights the scale of the problem we are dealing with.
Evidence suggests that at least 70% of the badgers in the areas must be removed. This is based on the results of the randomised badger culling trial so that we can be confident that culling will reduce TB in cattle. Despite a greatly increased effort over the past few days and weeks, the farmers delivering this policy have concluded that they cannot be confident that it will be possible to remove enough badgers based on these higher numbers and considering the lateness of the season. It would be wrong to go ahead if those on the ground cannot be confident of removing at least 70% of the populations.
Today I have received a letter from the president of the NFU, on behalf of the companies co-ordinating the culls, explaining why they do not feel that the culls can go ahead this year and requesting that they be postponed until next summer. In these circumstances, it is the right thing to do, and as they are the people who have to deliver this policy on the ground and work within the science, I respect their decision. I have placed a copy of the letter in the Library of both Houses.
By starting the pilots next summer, we can build on the work that has already been done and ensure that the cull will conform to the scientific criteria and evidence base. I know that this will be very disappointing for many, particularly those farmers in the two pilot areas, but I fully support the decision of the NFU to delay the start of culling operations.
I must emphasise that there is no change to the Government’s policy We remain absolutely committed to it, but we must ensure that we work with the NFU to get the delivery right. We also remain committed to our wider TB eradication programme and to continuing to strengthen it, so that we can move towards our goal of a TB-free England. Vaccination is another tool and one that we would all like to be able to deploy more widely. Unfortunately, we are not there yet in terms of its development or practicality. If we had a viable and legal cattle vaccine, we would be using it. It will, however, be some years before this is the case and neither we nor the industry can afford to wait that long. It is for this reason that we must look at all the options.
The Government are determined to tackle bovine TB by all the means available to us. Now, in the next few months, we will ensure that the pilot culls can be implemented effectively, in the best possible conditions, with the right resources. Having looked at all the evidence over many years, I am utterly convinced that badger control is the right thing to do, and indeed the higher than expected badger numbers only serve to underline the need for urgent action. I remain fully committed to working with the farming industry to ensure that the pilot culls can be delivered effectively, safely and humanely next summer. I commend this statement to the House.
Mary Creagh
Bovine TB is a terrible disease, but the Secretary of State’s cull was never going to be a silver bullet. Then, last Thursday, we saw the first signs that the badger cull was shaping up to be another Government disaster. As Ministers went to ground, the Secretary of State’s own press office told “Channel 4 News” that the policy was being scrapped, but an hour later they rang back—it was unscrapped. To have to announce one U-turn may be regarded as misfortune, but two U-turns in one afternoon looks like carelessness, even for a Government as weak and incompetent as this one.
What was the reason for the wobble? I had asked some parliamentary questions, and Ministers’ answers revealed some awkward facts. My first basic question was how many badgers there were in each cull area. The answer was that the Government
“have yet to issue definitive target figures for the two areas”.—[Official Report, 17 October 2012; Vol. 551, c. 296W.]
The cull is predicated on killing at least 70% of badgers in an area. How could it proceed when Ministers did not know how many animals there were? We had said all along that the cull was a shot in the dark, and here was the proof. It was that admission, two days before the cull was due to start, that meant DEFRA was wide open to a judicial review for being in breach of the law. The Government’s own best estimate of badger numbers was far higher than previously estimated, making both culls more expensive than forecast. That would mean more expense for farmers and increasing the contingency fund, the bond that farmers are required to lodge with Natural England. Why did Ministers not ask how many badgers farmers needed to kill before this whole fiasco started?
What sort of announcement is the Minister making today? Is it like the forests U-turn, when they pulled the plug and then set up an independent panel to kick it into the long grass forever, leaving just enough cover to save the Prime Minister face; or is it like the infamous Health and Social Care Bill, when the Prime Minister pressed the stop button, waited for things to calm down and then carried on regardless? Is this delay a proper U-turn or a pretend U-turn? I think that the country deserves to be told.
We welcome the tougher measures on biosecurity that the Secretary of State announced last Friday. He says the cull will start again next summer. He has blamed the weather and the police, yet his own colleague the Home Secretary said that the cull must not go ahead during the Olympics and Paralympics. What happens if the weather is bad next year? What estimate has he made of the impact on the tourism industry of a cull next June? Does he expect MPs and the public to believe him when he says that the cull will happen next summer? If it does not take place, is there not a risk that his Department will be pursued for costs by farmers left out of pocket as a result of his incompetence? Is not the truth that the Prime Minister yanked him back from his festival of fromage and fizz in Paris last night and told him it was game over? Who exactly is in charge?
After months of agonising, with hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money having been spent on consultations, counting badgers, training marksmen and issuing licences, and after thousands have been spent by farmers setting up companies, we have had another U-turn from this incompetent Government. They have spent two years puffing life into a policy that should never have left the ministerial red box. After just six weeks in his post, the Secretary of State has discovered that DEFRA is filled with elephant traps for the unwary. With forests, circus animals and now the badger cull, he has completed a hat trick unmatched by any other Department.
Labour has always said that the badger cull was bad for taxpayers, bad for farmers, and bad for wildlife. This Government are out of touch with the nation. This cull should have been stopped months ago. Today we have the right decision for all the wrong reasons. The cull has been stopped because of the Government’s endemic incompetence. They should have listened to the scientists, the charities and Labour Members, and made policy based on the evidence instead of twisting the evidence to fit their policy. Once again, Ministers present the House with a disaster entirely of their own making. Once again, it is farmers and taxpayers who are left counting the cost.
Mr Paterson
I thank the hon. Lady for her kind words in welcoming me to my place, but it was pretty thin stuff, wasn’t it, Mr Speaker?
Let us start with Professor Lord Krebs, whom the hon. Lady quoted. He confirmed the policy when he said in April last year at a meeting of independent scientific experts:
“The science base generated from the…Randomised Badger Culling Trial shows that proactive badger culling as conducted in the trial resulted in an overall beneficial effect compared with ‘survey only’ (no cull) areas on reducing new confirmed cattle herd breakdowns which is still in evidence 5½ years after the final annual proactive cull.”
The hon. Lady then touched on the comments of the chief scientist, Sir John Beddington, but failed to say that his recent quote in full is this:
“The proposed pilot culls differ from the RBCT in a number of ways. Additional biosecurity aimed at reducing perturbation effects, any predictions as to the efficacy of the culls will be accompanied by uncertainties. However, if the results were similar to those of the RBCT we might expect a 12 to 16% reduction in bovine TB over an area of 150 km sq after nine years relative to a similar unculled area. It will be important to monitor the results and to subject them to rigorous statistical analysis to assess humaneness, safety and efficacy.”
That is exactly what the pilots were for: they were the logical conclusion—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I told Mr Kawczynski that he was making too much noise and he accepted his fate with good grace. Members on the Opposition Front Bench must not yell at the Secretary of State as he is answering questions. The right hon. Gentleman must be heard. Let us hear it from Mr Secretary Paterson.
Mr Paterson
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
The previous Government took forward the RBCT in a whole series of trials and then stopped and decided to do nothing. They presided over a horrendous increase in this disgusting disease. We have taken the logic of the RBCT and extended it, which means conducting it over a larger area with hard boundaries and a more efficient system of culling. We are wholly conforming to the science and to the advice that we have taken. However, as I explained in my statement, at this late stage of the season, because of the various delays and because of the larger numbers than had previously been planned for, the NFU has come to me requesting a delay. I should like to reassure the hon. Lady that this policy is absolutely intact. We will work with the NFU over the coming months and from next summer we will deliver pilot culls that will show the efficacy of what we are intending to do.
Mr Speaker
I call Mr Jim Paice. [Interruption.] Sir James Paice—I apologise profusely to the right hon. Gentleman.
Sir James Paice (South East Cambridgeshire) (Con)
Apology accepted, Mr Speaker, with good grace.
This is clearly very disappointing news for everybody, including the farmers, who had planned for and expected our getting to grips with this disease as quickly as possible. May I endorse my right hon. Friend’s comments about these being pilots? We have always recognised that in some areas they differed from the original RBCT measures, and that was the reason for having the two pilots—to see whether those differentiations still produced the same results. The increase in numbers to which he refers is surprising—or the fact that it is a problem is surprising—given that most people who live in these areas should have been well aware, as most country people are, of the massive increase in badgers.
Finally, does my right hon. Friend agree that science shows that if the population of any species significantly increases in density, disease spreads more quickly as it is more likely to sustain itself? This increase in the badger population therefore increases the need to carry out the control.
Mr Paterson
I thank my right hon. Friend and commend him for the tremendous work that he did in his job as Minister of State. Wherever I have been in recent weeks, many, many people across the industry have paid him great tribute for the sterling work that he did. I commend him for taking this policy on; it was not easy.
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The two pilots were the logical extension of the trials conducted under the previous Government, which stopped dead once they had finished. The next logical step is to go on to a larger geographical area and use a more efficient method of culling. He is absolutely right to say that the real lesson from these very significantly higher numbers is that the disease will be prevalent among the badger population and spreads more quickly in a dense population. This is a problem that we have to grip. It is no good criticising from the outside without coming up with a policy.
Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op)
In July 2011, Natural England estimated that there would be 3,300 badgers in each 350 sq km cull area, using data from the randomised badger cull trial, yet DEFRA used the figure of only 1,300 badgers for each 350 sq km area. Why did DEFRA get the figures so badly wrong?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that question. It will be helpful if I explain the chronology. In September this year Natural England first determined that there were deficiencies in the sett data. Shortly after I took up my post, it set about a detailed sett survey and came up with these very significantly large numbers. We have to respect the science. It is most important that everyone understands this. The simple facts are that with these increased numbers the NFU did not believe that in the later weeks of this year, as it gets more difficult to get out on the ground, it could deliver the 70% figure. The responsible thing to do is to postpone; the easy thing to do would have been to thunder on and not deliver. We have to respect the science; we are being very clear about that. Over the past few days we have discussed this in great depth with the NFU and it is quite clear that despite a big effort in recruiting and a big increase in resources it cannot deliver the 70% figure. It is therefore right not to go ahead for the time being, and we will go ahead next year.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that farmers in the hotspots will be given all the available legal protection over the coming months, given the uncertainty before the cull can proceed? I welcome the fact that he has confirmed that the science is that of the independent scientific group in 2008. Will he use this pause to make the strongest possible argument within the European Union that the produce of any vaccinated animal, whether vaccinated with the badger bovine TB vaccine or the foot and mouth vaccine, will be legal trade with our European partners?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee for her question, which touches on security. I want publicly to thank the chief constables and all their staff in the two main areas, who have co-operated a tremendous amount. This has been an extra burden on them in recent weeks. We have worked with them closely and I thank them. They have reassured me at all times that they will ensure that legal protest can go on, but law and order will prevail.
On vaccination—I am glad that we are getting into this so early in our discussion—the fact is that the current vaccine is only about 50% to 60% effective, while that for smallpox, for example, is well over 95%, so we do not have a very effective vaccine. On my hon. Friend’s point, we have developed a DIVA—differentiation of infected from vaccinated animals—test recently, which differentiates between a vaccinated and a diseased animal, but it is still in the early stages. We would all agree—every single person in this House and those outside—that we would like to press a vaccine button today but, sadly, we do not have one.
The European authorities are absolutely clear that if we went about a vaccination programme now, before we have an absolutely scientifically clear and evidence-based system of differentiating between diseased and vaccinated, we would not be able to export any cattle products. We are talking about a trade of billions of pounds. That would be suicide. I am in total agreement with hon. Members who want to see vaccines but, sadly, we are just not there. It is incredibly important that everyone understands that we do not have a button-pressed vaccine today. We are working extremely hard on it. I take on my hon. Friend’s encouragement. I will discuss the issue at the Commission, but at the moment I cannot go to the Commission with a clear, evidence-based programme to use a vaccine.
Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is right to say that we must address the problem of bovine TB. Will he, therefore, this year, while this delay is in place, use the funding that would have been made available for the cull to improve biosecurity in the cowsheds and byres of farmers, and set minimum standards for biosecurity, which the Krebs report said was a very important element in controlling the disease?
Mr Paterson
I am in agreement with the hon. Gentleman that biosecurity can help, but the problem is that we are dealing with an animal that can get into sheds. When I was in opposition, I went to Michigan and they had clear evidence where they had separated white-tailed deer from cattle herds and invested significantly in fencing off the cattle herds indoors. It is not possible to do that with badgers, because our cattle system has cattle out on the fields, and 1 ml of badger urine yields 300,000 colony-forming units of disease and it takes only 0.001% to infect an animal. That is the problem. We have animals out on grass, mixing freely with wild badgers, and that is where the disease is being picked up.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)
I draw the attention of hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The right hon. Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice), who was until recently a Minister in the Department, is right. People living in the countryside are not surprised, because they report seeing more badgers more frequently. Does the Secretary of State agree that work should be undertaken on the correlation between the increase in badgers and the increase of bovine TB in the cattle herd?
Mr Paterson
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The evidence is extremely obvious. We can see from 1972 onwards that when there is a big increase in the badger population there is an increase in TB. It is very simple. I do not know of a single country in the western world that does not bear down on disease in wildlife and in cattle.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
The Secretary of State said that vaccination is only 60% or 70% effective, but is that not an awful lot more than 16% effective for the cull? Secondly, he said that a cattle vaccination and the DIVA test are years off, but that is not the case—that is not what scientists are telling us. Will he use the money that has so far been earmarked for the cull to bring those vaccines to market as soon as possible? Will he start negotiating now with his EU colleagues to make sure that the DIVA test will mean that we can distinguish between infected and vaccinated cattle and that we can, therefore, continue to export beef?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question. We are not yet there with a vaccination programme. If this vaccine is only 50% to 60% effective, a significant number of cattle will be either diseased or, perhaps, vaccinated. Until we can differentiate between them, we cannot go to the Commission and no neighbouring country would want to buy stock from us. This is a real, practical problem. I reassure the hon. Lady that I am as keen as her to get to the position of having a vaccine, and I promise that we will work on this over the next year. We are spending £15.5 million over the next four years on top of the £40-odd million that we spent recently. This is a real priority, but we are not in that position yet.
Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
When I was lucky enough to serve on the agriculture committee nearly 20 years ago, I remember the then Chairman saying that we had to have a badger cull in selected areas to deal with this disease. Since then, Governments have been hopelessly indecisive and weak and, as a result, our farming community has undergone untold misery. Will the Secretary of State assure us that he will now get a grip and that he will be swayed only by science and not by emotions, and save our farmers from this terrible disease?
Mr Paterson
I am happy to reassure my hon. Friend emphatically that we will stand by this policy. As I have said, there is no country in the western world where such policies do not apply. We should consider the situation in New Zealand with possums and that in Australia with buffalo, and look at what every other western European country is doing. A cull is taking place in Ireland as we speak. On Monday I talked to a farmer in Burgundy, where badgers are not protected. There is no other country where they are not bearing down on disease in wildlife and in cattle. We have to do both.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
This is probably not the auspicious start that the Secretary of State wanted on the DEFRA Front Bench. No one takes the cull of badgers lightly, but what is the Department’s plan B? The Secretary of State has said, in effect, that over the next 12 months, until next summer, 30,000 cattle will be slaughtered and his Department will have to pick up the bill of £100 million. In Northern Ireland it will be £20 million and a vast amount of cattle will be slaughtered as a result of bovine TB. I hope that we are not witnessing the eradication of the Department’s courage to follow through with a policy that could change things.
Mr Paterson
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that, until we get a grip on this, these horrendous slaughter figures will continue at an horrendous cost and cause horrendous damage to famers’ livelihoods and their families. That is clear, but we have to respect the science. The NFU told me this morning that it cannot achieve the 70% and, if we agree with the science, which states that if we cull less than 70% we provoke perturbation, I have to respect that advice. The hon. Gentleman is from Northern Ireland, so he knows perfectly well the value of a cull. The four counties trial showed a 96% reduction in Donegal. There is no question but that bearing down on wildlife and cattle will eradicate the disease eventually.
Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)
Farmers across North Wiltshire will be disappointed about the delay—although they will understand it—but so will true wildlife lovers. Will the Secretary of State confirm that even if a workable badger vaccine was available—there probably is not—it would have no effect whatsoever on badgers that are ill? In other words the hundreds of badgers that are ill, underground and dying in agony would not be affected even if a vaccine was available.
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend’s constituents will be as disappointed as mine about this delay and postponement. There is actually an injectable badger vaccine, which was licensed in March last year, but everybody needs to consider the practicality. We have an enormously increased badger population. It is certainly 250,000 to 300,000. An injectable vaccine requires injecting every badger every year and, as I have said on cattle vaccine, it is not possible to cure an animal that is already diseased so, with the deepest respect to the Welsh Government, I am doubtful of the value of that process.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
Will police forces that have had to commit resources to prepare for the pilots be compensated for the work that they have had to do?
Mr Paterson
Yes. We have made it clear that we will help the police forces that have had to put in extra resources. I talked to all the chief constables of the forces this morning, thanked them personally for their significant effort and the skilful and tactful manner in which they have deployed their teams recently, and I have agreed that we will help them.
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State has made an entirely supportable and practical decision this morning in guaranteeing that this is not a change in policy, but simply a delayed policy. Does he agree that the reaction of Labour Members to his statement will have sent a shiver down the spine of farmers who are watching and will have made them realise that for the Opposition, this is a political issue, not a practical one? So much for one nation!
Mr Paterson
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I did not want to get into a party political argument, but the Labour party’s record in office is shameful. The disease has gone on and on, but after the trials, the Labour Government stopped dead. We are following the logical conclusion of what they set in place. They stopped; we are going on. We are determined that this is the right thing to do.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
How much compensation will be paid to police forces, as the Secretary of State has just announced?
Mr Paterson
It will be the marginal costs. We will have to discuss that with the relevant forces and come up with a number.
Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)
The Secretary of State has rightly said that the Government will continue to tackle all sources of the disease and to look at biosecurity, as well as dealing with the cull. If there are further problems over the next few months with the designated cull areas, will he look at other areas where landowners and farmers might be keen to be part of the cull trial?
Mr Paterson
That is an interesting question. Yes, I will look at that in detail. At the moment, the NFU is probably thinking of carrying on in the two areas where it has put in such a lot of work and preparation, but I am open to looking at other areas. We want to pull off two pilots that show that this system, in a bigger area and with a more efficient system of culling, does work and does reduce TB.
Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)
Ministers constantly lecture us about the need for their counter-productive austerity measures, so how can the Secretary of State justify earmarking £250,000 for post-mortems on dead badgers following the cull? Is that not a colossal waste of money and an example of an omnivore-shambles?
Mr Paterson
What a ludicrous question. The attitude of some Opposition Members is absolutely tearful. We are heading towards a bill of £1 billion.
Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)
I commend the Secretary of State for acting so decisively today, following the change of heart by the NFU. Although dairy farmers in south Devon will, of course, be disappointed, they will understand it, provided that he continues to say, day after day, that this is just a delay, not a change of policy, and that the cull will take place in 2013.
Mr Paterson
I am most grateful for my hon. Friend’s support. As he knows, when I was the shadow spokesman, I went down to his part of the world and I asked 600 parliamentary questions. That made me determined that this was the right thing to do. I wholly commend the last Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice), who did great work on putting this policy into practice. We are determined to push it through, because it is the only way in which we will save our cattle industry.
Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State say how many firearms licences have been issued by the police for the culls, and at what cost?
Mr Paterson
I can give the hon. Lady an accurate reply after the statement. The team in each pilot area is made up of roughly 60 people and the firearms licences had to be amended. I am happy to get back to her with the exact number.
Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)
Cattle owners like me will respect the Secretary of State for taking the advice of the NFU. However, will he take this opportunity to look at the compensation tables, which are causing so much misery to cattle owners who are receiving less than it costs to replace their cattle?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend touches on a fraught area. I have cattle breeders in my patch who are producing the most wonderful pedigree cattle of the highest standard and getting adequate compensation is a constant problem. At the moment, we are paying the market rate, but I am happy to discuss the matter with him.
Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity that this postponement allows to meet the 30 leading scientists, including vets and animal disease scientists, who think that their science is correct and that the NFU’s science, on which the Secretary of State is relying, is not correct?
Mr Paterson
I am most grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question, but he is just wrong. This is not the NFU’s science. The science that the policy is based on comes from the main trials that his Government put into practice. It is the logical conclusion of those trials. I quoted Lord Krebs and I have a meeting with him this week or next week, so I am very happy to meet scientists. We are following on from the logic of the science-based evidence that has been produced.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
Roughly how many people have been threatened in the two areas, because there have been a variety of reports about that? If he can confirm a number, that would be useful to the House. In his view, have such people been properly protected by the police?
Mr Paterson
I am happy to reassure my hon. Friend that the number is tiny. I strongly commend, once again, the skill and tact of the police forces, which have maintained law and order in a dignified manner, under difficult conditions.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
As the Secretary of State knows, I represent a rural constituency in Northern Ireland. What discussions did he have with Ministers in the devolved Administrations yesterday in the margins of the EU Council of Ministers on agriculture matters? Will he confirm what tools are at the Government’s disposal to ensure that our farming industry is protected?
Mr Paterson
I am sorry to inform the hon. Lady that I did not get to Luxembourg yesterday because my flight was cancelled.
Mr Paterson
By the fog. If Members want a technical update, the flight was delayed and then cancelled. There was only one, so sadly I did not get to the Agriculture Council and I did not have a chance to put the very pertinent points that the hon. Lady mentioned. If she looks over the border, she will see that in the Republic of Ireland there is a reactive cull. As I said, the four counties trial showed a 96% reduction in Donegal.
Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)
As a neighbouring Shropshire MP, the Secretary of State will know what devastation bovine TB has caused in Shropshire, with more than 2,000 cattle slaughtered last year alone. Will he give an assurance that if the trials are successful next summer, other parts of the United Kingdom, such as Shropshire, will be able to move forward quickly to a cull?
Mr Paterson
I commend my neighbour from Shrewsbury and Atcham for his stalwart support on this matter and for the very public stance that he has taken. The answer is emphatically yes. I want the two pilots to go ahead and to conform to the science. I am confident that they will prove to be safe and efficacious, and that we will see a reduction in TB. That is what we want to see rolled out across the country.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
On 8 May, I wrote to the then farming Minister, the right hon. Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice), to highlight how complex it was to assess the number of badgers in the pilot areas and received very glib reassurances in response. Why is the Secretary of State now telling us that it was only in late September that concerns about those numbers came to light?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that question, but I did answer it earlier. It appeared in September that Natural England was not happy with the figures that had been provided locally. That is why it asked FERA to do a full survey, which took some time. That shows how deadly serious we are in respecting the science. It would not have been right to go ahead on the basis of numbers that Natural England believed to be inaccurate, so it was right to take more time and to do a thorough survey, and that came up with dramatically larger numbers.
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)
Dairy and beef farmers in my constituency are desperate because of TB. They have been cleaning their cattle for years. There now needs to be clean wildlife to stop the disease spreading. Can I have the absolute assurance of the Secretary of State that the cull will go ahead next year?
Mr Paterson
I am entirely in agreement with my hon. Friend. We want to see healthy wildlife—healthy badgers in this case—living alongside healthy cattle. We will achieve that only if we drive through the two pilots and extend them across the country, as I have just assured my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski).
Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State explain why there was a delay to avoid a clash with the Olympics and Paralympics, and what are the ideal weather conditions for killing badgers?
Mr Paterson
My predecessor was very responsible, because the Government had a request from the police and discussed it with the Home Secretary. There was obviously a huge amount of discussion about security before the Olympics and Paralympics. The whole nation wanted the games to be a success, and of course they were the most outstanding success. It was quite right not to burden the police with an extra task, so I think my colleagues were completely responsible.
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about the weather. We have obviously had the most extraordinarily wet year, which has made it difficult to get out on the land and difficult to get vehicles out. There is also a technical problem, which mainly applies to Gloucestershire. The maize is still standing, and part of what needs to be done is the cutting of maize, because otherwise badgers come and take the cobs. That is rather more a Gloucestershire problem than a Somerset one, but all in all, he must understand the practical difficulties of getting on the land in a very wet year.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
It is to the NFU’s credit that it has decided not to conduct a cull this year in circumstances in which it could not be confident that it would be effective in reducing the incidence of bovine TB. What are the next steps in developing the DIVA test to the point where it is widely acknowledged to be conclusive?
Mr Paterson
I entirely endorse my hon. Friend’s commendation of the NFU. It would have been quite wrong to go ahead when it was not confident of reaching the 70% target and could have made the position worse.
I was discussing the DIVA test with my senior scientists this morning, and we are determined to go full bore on it. There is agreement throughout the House that in an ideal world we would have a vaccine and a DIVA test, and we could then go to the Commission. I am keen that we look at the new technological developments as soon as we can.
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
How many discussions has the Secretary of State already had with European colleagues and the Commission to lobby for the DIVA test and cattle vaccination to be rolled out in the UK?
Mr Paterson
We have been in regular discussions with the European Commission, which is very supportive of our position. Only recently DG-SANCO—the directorate-general for health and consumers—stated:
“There is no scientific evidence to demonstrate that badger vaccination will reduce the incidence of TB in cattle. However there is considerable evidence to support the removal of badgers in order to improve the TB status of both badgers and cattle.
UK politicians must accept their responsibility to their own farmers and taxpayers as well as to the rest of the EU and commit to a long-term strategy that is not dependent on elections.”
Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
I am sure my right hon. Friend would agree that it would be preferable if the House could move forward on the basis of consensus on this issue. During the pause, will he undertake to meet the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) on Privy Council terms and see whether she has a single positive, substantive suggestion as to how we should tackle bovine TB? The House did not hear a single suggestion from her today.
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am happy to talk to anyone on the subject. We need to resolve it. We cannot go on carting off 26,000 cattle a year at a cost of nearly £100 million. We have to work together, and I am very happy to work with the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) if she is prepared to listen to me.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
I believe that the plan was ill-conceived from the outset, but today’s announcement was not about the science, it was about incompetence. The Government have had plenty of time, and this is not an uncontroversial issue. It has been scrutinised to death from this side and that, yet they came up with the figures on how many badgers there are very late in the process. What we need a cull of is Ministers who waste public money—we have had the west coast main line, and now this. How much has been wasted this year, and how much more will the cull cost next year?
Mr Paterson
I will come back to the hon. Gentleman with a full reply in writing on the costs. I can give him a breakdown of what we have spent on compensation, the trials and the vaccine. He needs to understand, from his urban perspective, the absolute devastation that bovine TB causes to our rural communities and those involved in the cattle industry. We have to resolve the problem, and we must face up to the fact that —[Interruption.] Just listen to my answer. We have to bear down on disease in cattle and in wildlife.
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
I am very disappointed by the tone and attitude that the Opposition have adopted on this important issue. I am sure that none of us wants badgers to be needlessly or unnecessarily culled, but we have a major problem with bovine TB. Will my right hon. Friend use this pause to build as wide a consensus as possible in the scientific community, which currently says that a cull is the only practical option?
Mr Paterson
I am happy to take up my hon. Friend’s suggestion. I will obviously talk to senior scientists, but I am also keen to drive forward new technologies. We have already discussed the DIVA test, and there is real merit in considering polymerase chain reaction, which I saw being used in Michigan when I was there in 2005. We can also consider the possible use of gamma interferon, which we have seen in other countries. I am definitely open to new ideas, because we have to bear down on this disgusting disease.
Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
Three times today the Minister has said that we are not yet there with a vaccine, so will he now focus on fast-tracking a vaccine programme and the DIVA test as the only long-term solution to tackling this devastating disease?
Mr Paterson
I have made it clear that the vaccine is like Sisyphus—it is always out there and we are always reaching for it, but it is always a few years out. Sadly, as of this afternoon, we are not in a position to introduce a vaccination programme, because it is only 50% to 60% effective and we do not yet have a fully worked-out DIVA test to differentiate diseased and vaccinated animals. I sympathise entirely with her pained expression, and I would love to go ahead this afternoon and press a button saying “Vaccine”, but we sadly do not have it yet.
Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)
Without certainty that the targeted pilot cull would go ahead as the Government announced last year, my right hon. Friend is surely right to postpone it. Will he emphasise to all those who will be involved in next summer’s cull, which must surely go ahead, that the terms of the targeted pilot cull, based on science, will be strictly adhered to?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend and neighbour for his supportive comments. Emphatically yes—it is absolutely right that we go ahead next summer, but we must do it within the constraints of the scientific criteria that are laid down. That is what we intend to do.
Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
I was not entirely clear about the answer that the Secretary of State gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith). We are certainly pleased to hear about the progress made on the vaccination and the DIVA test, but can he explain exactly what recent talks he has had with European colleagues? When does he think there might be some real progress, and what is he doing to ensure that it is as fast as possible?
Mr Paterson
My right hon. Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James Paice) started talking about the matter two and a half years ago, as soon as we came into government, and he has been in regular contact with European colleagues. I will work with them as closely as possible once we have a practical basis to work on. As I explained to the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon), we are sadly just not there yet. That obviously has to be an absolute priority, because we have agreement about it not just right across the House but right across the country.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s decision not to proceed in the current circumstances. Above all, the Government should not take action that risks making the situation worse. Given that he emphasises the importance of science, will he take the opportunity provided by the pause until next summer to review all the science, including that recently commissioned by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs itself, which may point to alternative ways of bearing down on this terrible disease?
Mr Paterson
I entirely endorse my hon. Friend’s comment, and during this time we will of course press on many fronts. We have a number of tools in the box, and we are using those that are currently available. As I have touched on, there are new ones coming down the track—PCR, the DIVA test, gamma interferon and others that I would like to investigate with real speed. We cannot just use the current tools, because we are not getting on top of the disease. It is getting worse.
Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State’s Department seems to have a bit of a track record of backing off when the pressure gets high. We previously had the experience of the circus animals debate, which was going to be whipped, but suddenly his Department backed off. Many of my constituents will be pleased to see that there is now to be a pause, but will he reassure us that he will look very seriously at the whole issue again, and that he is not just backing off because he does not want the embarrassment of a debate and a vote?
Mr Paterson
The hon. Lady has rather missed the tone of our discussion over the past hour. Having received these higher figures, and after agonising, the National Farmers Union has—I think very responsibly and despite huge pressure from its grass roots—made a decision. I was in Tewkesbury on Wednesday, and there is enormous pressure from those parts of the country where the cattle industry is being devastated by this disease. Despite that pressure, I must respect the NFU which said clearly to me in a final decision that it could not achieve the 70% required. We are all determined to work together within the science, and no one is backing off at all. The NFU has made a rational decision in the light of the new figures and given its current resources and the time available.
Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)
Fifteen years ago there were hundreds of beef and dairy farmers in Northumberland, but they now number a few dozen. They wholeheartedly support the proposed cull and the action that has been proposed today, albeit with regret. Will the Secretary of State confirm that such farmers will continue to receive the proper financial support that they need and deserve, until this disease is finally vanquished?
Mr Paterson
Emphatically, we want to see an expanding cattle industry and more cattle exports. I should actually be in Paris at the world’s largest food exhibition promoting exports of British beef and dairy products. I assure my hon. Friend that we want to see an expanding cattle industry, but we must get on top of this disease first.
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
My hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) asked how much public money has been spent so far on this misguided cull. Will the Minister confirm what proportion of this year’s expenditure will need to be spent again next year?
Mr Paterson
I cannot give the hon. Lady an exact answer because it obviously depends on how many cattle sadly fall to this disease. All I can say is that we have seen a steadily climbing trend in recent years, and unless we get on top of the disease, we will head towards a bill of £1 billion.
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
My right hon. Friend referred to his visit to Michigan, and there are lessons from Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and France. Will he ensure that the experiences of other countries are taken into account when adopting a strategy to tackle this hideous disease and ensure that we have healthy cattle and healthy badgers living alongside each other?
Mr Paterson
Emphatically, yes. I found my trip to Michigan very inspiring, and I saw the real determination of not only the state Government but the involvement of the Federal Government. They are absolutely determined to bear down on disease, and at the time they were withering in their criticism of the then Labour Government.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State believe in evidence-based policy, or policy-based evidence? If it is the former, does he really think that he has more scientific credibility than the former chief scientist, Lord May? May I add that calling the vaccine Sisyphus has not helped the Minister in that?
Mr Paterson
Sorry, perhaps it was Tantalus. I meant that the goal is always rolling away. The Government are completely clear. If the hon. Lady wishes to quote a respected and real expert in this field, let me refer her to Professor Christl Donnelly who surveyed all the evidence in 2010. He said:
“In the time period from one year after the last proactive cull to 28 August 2011, the incidence of confirmed breakdowns in the proactive culling trial areas was 28 per cent lower than in ‘survey only’ areas and on lands up to 2km outside proactive trial areas”.
The Government are going on the evidence and the analysis of respected experts in the field.
Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con)
As a Conservative Member who is against the cull, I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement today, and it was upsetting to see Labour Members laughing throughout the statement when bovine TB has such devastating effect on our farmers. Will the Secretary of State accept that the proposed cull will reduce BTB by only 16%, and could, if anything, spread and increase the disease across the UK? Will he reconsider his decision to start the cull next year, and instead focus all his efforts on developing and approving a cattle vaccination as soon as possible?
Mr Paterson
I am glad I have a few months to try and swing my hon. Friend round to my point of view, and I am sorry that she does not support it at the moment. I would not dismiss a 16% reduction in bovine TB in the light of a horrendous annual increase—we are looking at a 25% increase in the disease in the outlying areas. My hon. Friend, and Opposition Members, keep sniffing at the figure of 16% but, as one member of the farming community said, they would not sniff at a wage increase of 16% and it is a significant number. The Government believe that we will arrest the dramatic increase in the disease, and start to bring it down.
Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)
How much public money has been spent so far on this misguided cull?
Mr Paterson
There are a number of figures, but I think I had better write to the hon. Gentleman to give him a proper reply. There will be some figures for the policing, which was touched on, and for work on the cull itself and compensation. I will return to the big figure: we spent nearly £100 million last year, and unless we get a grip on the disease, that will look like a round of drinks compared with the figure of £1 billion to which we are heading.
Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove) (LD)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. May I remind him that bovine TB is gradually spreading north through Cheshire, and may I draw his attention to the initiative of the Cheshire Wildlife Trust, which says that it will run a voluntary inoculation campaign? That has attracted the attention and support of local farmers. Can we use this pause to get behind that initiative and see whether it provides a way forward?
Mr Paterson
I thank my right hon. Friend. Similarly, in my patch in Shropshire—I was there only 10 days ago with my hon. Friends the Members for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) and for Ludlow (Mr Dunne)—a trial of injecting badgers is being conducted. Those trials are interesting; we will look with interest at the results, and I commend them. However, is it seriously a practical proposition to inject each of the nation’s 250,000 to 300,000 badgers every year, knowing that we cannot mend a diseased badger? Once a badger has the disease, we cannot get rid of that by injecting it. These are interesting trials; they may have some merit and I am not dismissive of them, but they are not a long-term answer.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
May I pay tribute to Dr Brian May? He took a great deal of time to brief Members of this House and I thank him for that. Will the Secretary of State comment on what contribution he thinks standards of animal husbandry might make when dealing with this problem, and say what assistance Members of this House can give to farmers in that regard?
Mr Paterson
I think I touched on that in my response to an earlier question. There is no doubt that if we can separate wildlife that have this extraordinary debilitating disease—I mentioned 300,000 colony forming units in 1 ml of badger urine—and if we can keep them out of cattle sheds, that obviously helps. However, we have a grass-based system, and for many months in the year, our cattle are out on grass. It is not realistic to live in the countryside and expect to separate cattle from badgers that are going out and hunting for worms. Badgers’ main food is worms, and they go on the ground where cattle are feeding. The hon. Lady is right to say that measures can be taken on farm buildings and it is a nice idea, but that is for the birds when cattle are spending a long time out in the fields, which is where they pick up the disease.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
The sniggers and chuckles from Opposition Members at the start of this statement were clearly despicable, but there is no doubt that there is a lot of concern among the general public about this issue. Can we ensure that over the next year we nail down the science, and engage with the public as much as possible to make the case in favour of this cull, if that is the Government’s view next year?
Mr Paterson
I thank my hon. Friend for his supportive comments. He is right: we need to win the argument in public and there is a clear argument to be made. I am repeating myself now, but if we look around the world, we see that must bear down on disease in wildlife—as happens in every other western country that I know of—including disease in cattle. That is the only way we will eradicate this disease.
Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
May I therefore be helpful to the right hon. Gentleman by asking him to publish all the scientific evidence on which he is relying to come to a decision? Will he agree to open his doors to scientists who take a contrary view, including those who believe the cull is a costly distraction from the nationwide challenge of TB control?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I gave the explanation in my statement but would be happy to send him the numbers—[Interruption.] I cannot do any more to publish the information than say it in the House of Commons. Most of the information is already publicly available, but by all means, if he has not had time to find it on the internet, I shall send him a copy.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the blame for the vast incidence of bovine TB in this country and the intense misery it causes to my farmers in Devon can be laid substantially at the door of the previous Government, who did nothing over 13 years to have the courage to get a grip on this terrible disease?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is right that the numbers are absolutely horrendous. In 1998, 4,102 reactors were slaughtered; last year, it was 26,000. Unless we get a grip, it will get worse.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State talks about winning the public debate, but Lord Krebs, the leading scientist in this field, who oversaw the previous Government’s randomised badger cull trial, has described the current Government’s plan as a “crazy scheme”. Why does the Secretary of State not focus resources on vaccination and the biosecurity route that Lord Krebs recommends?
Mr Paterson
We have been round this course already. I recommend the hon. Lady goes back to Lord Krebs report of 1997. The executive summary, written by Lord Krebs, is a brilliant synopsis of the problem. He said that the evidence of a link between badgers and the disease was “compelling”. He is absolutely clear that there is a link. The debate is on how the cull should take place, which is what he has criticised. What we are proposing is pilots, and we believe we have come up with a more efficient and effective method. In case the hon. Lady missed the statement, I repeat that we are going for a much larger area with hard boundaries, such as major roads, motorways and rivers, and a more effective system of culling. That is entirely consistent with the scientific advice from Krebs and the RBCT.
Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for assisting me in trying to lose weight.
Farmers in Nottinghamshire find themselves in a fortunate position. The county is TB-free, so badgers are TB-free, but the disease is spreading towards us from Derbyshire. My farmers will be glad that the Secretary of State will use the whole toolbox to prevent their cattle becoming infected, but farmers in two-year and four-year testing parishes will want to know whether the testing intervals will be reduced in clean areas?
Mr Paterson
I do apologise, Mr Speaker. I was speaking to the Minister of State and missed my hon. Friend’s question at the end. Could he possibly pose it again?
Mr Spencer
There is a conspiracy to make me bob up and down.
Farmers in Nottinghamshire find themselves in a TB-free zone and currently undergo testing on a four-year or two-year cycle. They will be concerned that there will be an attempt to reduce the interval between tests in clean areas. Does the Secretary of State have any plans to do so?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that point. The annual testing that we glibly talk about poses an enormous burden on farmers and is a fraught event. Virtually the whole of the west of England is on annual testing, and he is absolutely right to fear for his farmers in Nottingham that the interval might be reduced, because putting a herd through the skin test is an horrendous experience. That is another good reason to get on top of the disease quickly, before it spreads into his area.
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
Given the figures we have heard from the Secretary of State, why did his Department’s impact assessment say that the cost of the cull outweighs the benefit to both farmers and taxpayers?
Mr Paterson
We should be concerned about the cost of not doing the cull. The sums involved in our proposals are very modest compared with the cost of carting off 26,000 healthy cattle, and the number will grow every year. We would be heading to a bill of £1 billion—how many times have I said that, Mr Speaker? The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but the problem is the result of the passive attitude of the Labour Government since 1997.
Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
The Secretary of State says he intends to press on with the cull regardless of strong scientific evidence and overwhelming public opinion against. Instead, will he take the advantage of the delay to meet the groups and scientists who are opposed? Without doing so, he looks arrogant as well as incompetent.
Mr Paterson
That was not a terribly accurate summary of what I have said. I have said that we will respect the science. Despite huge pressure from the NFU grass roots, which has been reflected by knowledgeable Government Members, the NFU has reluctantly written to me to say that it wants a postponement, because it cannot deliver 70%—I am respecting the science. I am more than happy to talk to anyone about the policy, including the hon. Gentleman and the shadow Secretary of State. If he knows scientists who want to talk to me, I will talk to them, but we are absolutely clear that we are following the scientific logic of the preceding trials in a methodical manner. We are respecting the science, which is why, with a heavy heart, we are accepting the NFU proposal and its request to delay.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State likes to use figurative language, but he should be careful about buying a round of drinks on the taxpayer. The Department has had months. It knew months ago that the cull could not start until after the Olympics, as he said in his statement. He also said that a cull should have started in the summer to be effective, so why has the policy dragged on for month after month when there was never any realistic possibility of an effective cull this year?
Mr Paterson
No, that is not an accurate statement. There was a sensible delay at the request of the police because of the huge pressures they were under to deliver the Olympics and Paralympics. There were also various judicial processes, which I have outlined. It is worth taking time to think about the impact of the weather, which has made it difficult to organise things on the ground. What really tipped the balance was the accurate and scientifically based verification of the badger numbers, which convinced the NFU. The NFU has reluctantly requested that we postpone at this late stage—with the nights drawing on and as we get into the winter with cold weather predicted, when badgers stay underground—and that is exactly what has happened.
Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has attempted to base his argument on science, but what does he say to Sir Patrick Bateson of the university of Cambridge and 30 other leading animal health scientists, who say his policy is a
“costly distraction from nationwide TB control”?
Was not his predecessor guilty of an appalling error when she decided to cut the budget for research into vaccination against bovine TB as a result of the comprehensive spending review?
Mr Paterson
That is wrong. We are spending £15.5 million over the next four years on vaccines. The debate in which the scientists have got themselves involved is not on whether removing diseased wildlife works. Going back to Lord Krebs’s report in 1997, everyone accepts that there are links from badgers to cattle, cattle to badgers, badgers to badgers and cattle to cattle. We know that that is how this horrible disease transmits itself. The debate is on how best to remove the wildlife. One of my most telling parliamentary questions showed that 57% of the traps were tampered with and 12% were stolen. That and the RBCT showed that that was not the most efficient system for removing the wildlife. We are taking on the logic in the full glare of scientific scrutiny, and seeing whether shooting is a more efficient method, and—I am saying this for about the sixth time—whether going for a larger 150 km area bounded by rivers and motorways is more effective.
Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)
Many of my constituents have been in touch with me in recent days. I am sure they will have followed the Secretary of State’s albeit temporary U-turn with great interest, but there is also interest in how much money has been spent on preparations. The Secretary of State referred to the amount as a round of drinks within the wider context—I am not sure what clubs he drinks in. I know he is unable to give hon. Members the run of figures now, but could he commit to putting them in the House of Commons Library this afternoon?
Mr Paterson
Rather than give just a few numbers now, I am happy to put a comprehensive and clear statement in the Library outlining all the different costs—some costs will be on policing, some will be to do with DEFRA and some will be in compensation. However, I must pick on the hon. Gentleman’s use of the word “U-turn”. The statement is not a U-turn. The Government are absolutely determined, unlike the previous one, to bear down on TB, and we will bear down on TB in cattle and in wildlife. We will end up with a prosperous, successful cattle industry because of decisive, robust action by Conservative and Liberal Democrat Ministers in DEFRA.
Agriculture and Fisheries Council
Owen Paterson Excerpts(12 years ago)
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The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr Owen Paterson)
The next Agriculture and Fisheries Council is on Monday 22 October and Tuesday 23 October in Luxembourg. I will be representing the UK, accompanied by the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) who is responsible for natural environment, water and rural affairs. Richard Lochhead MSP and Alun Davies AM will also attend.
The first day will include discussions on both fisheries and agriculture. On fisheries the discussion will cover the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund (EMFF).
On agriculture there will be further discussion of the CAP reform proposals on direct payments, the single CMO regulation, and possibly the horizontal regulation. There will be a presentation by the Commission on the financing of the CAP.
The Council will also discuss the adoption of a standard setting maximum residual levels for ractopamine by the Codex Alimentarius Commission.
On the second day the Council will return to the EU maritime and fisheries fund. There will also be discussions about Baltic sea stocks, the EU/Norway 2013 catch quota and the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas (ICCAT) annual meeting.
One item under any other business has been confirmed, a report on the 32nd Conference of Directors of EU Paying Agencies.