Cycling: Bells

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of any hazards that arise when cyclists fail to make use of bicycle bells.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, cyclists, like all road users, have a responsibility to behave in a safe and responsible manner. Rule 66 of the Highway Code recommends that bells are fitted and used as necessary, and all new bikes must be sold with a bell fitted.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, what can be done about the huge number of cyclists without bells, which does not lack aggressive and foul-mouthed elements? Some of them seem to prefer pavements to their designated cycle lanes, having presumably discarded the bells which, as my noble friend has said, are required by law when bicycles are first sold. Is this not completely irresponsible?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I am going to try very hard not to make this a pro- and anti-cycling Question, because there are many people on our roads—pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, motorcyclists and drivers of motorised vehicles—and we must ensure that each considers their impact on other road users. My noble friend is right that we must do something. The core is education and training. In the Government’s cycling strategy, Gear Change: A Bold Vision for Cycling and Walking, we said that every adult and child who wants it can be trained on how to ride a bicycle safely.

[Lord Touhig (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, some time ago, I had a near-encounter with a cyclist. He did not have a bell and I did not see him coming, but an accident was avoided because he shouted “ding ding” as he approached me. Like many colleagues, I have done much more walking during the pandemic, and had many close encounters. While it is argued that cyclists should not rely unduly on bells as a means of avoiding hazards, in almost every case it is the only warning that the pedestrian has. Surely all cyclists should be required to have bells on their bicycles and should not be allowed on the road without them.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are not about to mandate bells on bicycles. That would be disproportionate, and it is unlikely that any enforcement would be a police priority. However, cyclists must take responsibility for their actions. A little “ding ding” on a bell on a bridleway is perfectly fine, but if you are travelling in central London, it will get you nowhere, and in those circumstances, a shout is probably preferable. I am afraid that the Government will not be mandating bells at the present time.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I welcome the huge increase in cycling, but millions of people will never get on a bicycle, and millions of pedestrians on pavements feel intimated and threatened by that small minority of anti-social cyclists. Has the Minister given any thought to how we can identify those anti-social cyclists who head off very speedily? Could they all have something that shows who they are, so that they can be identified?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the Government looked very closely at the issue of safety. In the cycling and walking safety review of 2018 we looked at licensing, but we concluded that the costs would outweigh the benefits of getting more people on to a bike. However, I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that it is an offence to cycle on the pavements, under Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835. Enforcement is an operational matter for local police forces.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a runner clocking up 20 miles a week. I can testify that cyclists can be a real danger to stand-up sportsmen, and very few of the MAMILs have bells. They claim that they interfere with the aerodynamics, which is really just vanity. Outside England, bells are required under the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic 1968, so why do we not have that requirement in England as well? Also, will my noble friend the Minister look at supporting a Bill to regulate pedicabs, which is going to fail in this Session?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his questions and congratulate him on his running. The Government take an interest in how pedicabs will be regulated, and we will look favourably on any Bills that might come forward. I think I have answered the question about mandating cycle bells, but we have just closed a consultation on the Highway Code. We want to ensure that those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce danger or threat. In those circumstances, a cyclist would have the responsibility to a pedestrian or a runner to ensure that they were safe and did not feel intimidated.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, arguably e-scooters pose an even greater threat than cycles. The Government’s policy seems to be to normalise these by stealth. About 300,000 have been sold for illegal private use, and on sites such as Amazon or eBay you can find them with a top speed of 50 mph, marketed as “great for commuting” despite it being illegal to ride them on public roads, let alone pavements. There is no enforcement whatever. They are almost silent, such that pedestrians, especially those with vision impairment, are hugely at risk. What are the Government doing to protect pedestrians, especially vulnerable ones, from e-scooters?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I refer the noble Baroness to the answers to the Question on e-scooters that I answered last week for more context on that. It is illegal to ride a privately owned e-scooter on a public road, and where there are e-scooter trials, all the e-scooters within those trials are fitted with a bell or a horn.

[Lord Aberdare (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I have been cycling a lot during the pandemic and have become very aware of problems both caused by and faced by cyclists, including not using their bells to alert others to their approach or finding that those others are so immersed in their headphones that they would fail to be alerted by the crack of doom. Might the Minister consider a campaign, perhaps in partnership with leading cycling bodies, to raise awareness of good cycling —and, indeed, scootering—behaviour as part of her welcome commitment to training and guidance?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure the noble Lord that we not only support a campaign but are taking action on this. We will be investing £18 million in the current financial year on Bikeability training for both adults and children. The noble Lord might be interested to know that role 4 of the government-backed national standard cycling training curriculum, which replaced the cycling proficiency test—which I am sure noble Lords are familiar with—has an entire topic about riding

“safely and responsibly in the traffic system.”

It is not about the cyclists in isolation but about how they interact with all elements within the traffic system, whether that be pedestrians or those using motorised vehicles.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, first, I reiterate my thanks to my noble friend Lord Lexden for his very generous sponsorship of a charity bike ride that I did some five years ago round the Somme. Of course, cyclists should behave responsibly, legally and courteously but pedestrians very often do not hear nor react to bicycle bells, as indeed the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, has just said, and motorists invariably do not. In a collision with a car or a pedestrian, a cyclist is likely to come off worse because he has further to fall. The problem is not with vulnerable cyclists but with motor vehicles and sometimes pedestrians who are not paying attention or taking sufficient care. Will my noble friend, as a start, encourage the police to take action against motorists who, for instance, block and occupy advance stop lines provided for cyclists at junctions?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend that perhaps a little more could be done around making sure that motorists do not stop in those boxes because they are really key for cyclists. It is about educating the drivers of motor vehicles as well. I reassure my noble friend that this goes back to the hierarchy of road users, about which we have consulted. We have got 21,000 responses on that. That has the capacity to fundamentally change the way we think about fellow road users, in whichever mode they choose to travel, and how we keep ourselves—and them—safe.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the biggest hazard for cyclists is actually unsafe drivers? They may be anti-social and some of the cyclists are anti-social, as other noble Lords have said. Does she agree that the common problem is the silent approach, be it by cyclists or electric cars? Surely the answer there is to make people use bells. Personally, I use a horn when I can because it is even better. It wakes up people who are probably on a mobile phone in their car.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I very much hope that they are not on their mobile phone in their car; otherwise, I shall have words. The noble Lord makes some incredibly important points. It is a question of making sure that the balance is right between the actions of the motorist and the actions of the cyclist. I think I have been able to set out what the Government are doing. We are focused on ensuring that the right balance is achieved and we need to make sure that motorists as well as cyclists behave in the way that they should.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. We now come to the second Oral Question.

Transport: Zero Carbon Target

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the electrical power requirements needed to enable reliable (1) hydrogen, and (2) battery, availability, in order to meet their zero carbon transport sector target.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the recent energy White Paper, published in December, considered the potential future reliance of transport on electricity and clean hydrogen. It also included nearly £500 million of funding that will be made available in the next four years to build an internationally competitive electric vehicle supply chain.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and the energy White Paper is certainly a contribution. Does it include all the power needed not only to produce batteries but to source the raw materials? The demand for lithium, one of the main contributors, is forecast to go up by 10 times, I think, in five years. Manufacture of hydrogen takes double the amount of electricity than it would it if you just drove a train or anything else directly by electricity. Then there are all the changes to the grid required. Can the Minister confirm that all this is included in the White Paper?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can confirm that all these things are under consideration at the current time. It is a complex picture and there are many uncertainties as to what we will need our energy for. We are absolutely committed to ensuring a sufficient supply of low-carbon electricity. We need to ensure that the grid can cope and that we make the best use of smart energy solutions that are able to make use of plentiful renewable supply.

[Viscount Hanworth (Lab)]

According to a widely accepted analysis, the electrification of transport would require a 75% increase in generating capacity. The decarbonisation of the economy will create numerous additional demands. However, the energy White Paper proposes a doubling of the capacity by 2050 in the context of a reduction of a third in overall energy consumption. This would have to be accompanied by the continued deindustrialisation of the economy, a virtual cessation of manufacturing and the immiseration of much of Britain’s working population. How do the Government react to these inescapable conclusions?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am afraid I have not read the report to which the noble Viscount refers. But it seems obvious that, over time, motors et cetera will become more efficient. It could be therefore that the amount of energy used will decline on a relative basis. The Government are also focused on flexibility. Flexibility is key, which is why we need smart technology that will centre on storage, demand-side responses and interconnectors to make sure we get the power to where it needs to be when it needs to be there.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the number of electric vehicle charging points on motorways is already inadequate. To achieve the Government’s targets for increasing EV sales, there must be a massive expansion of the number of motorway charging points, but motorway services are often in rural areas where the electricity grid is already stretched. What work have the Government done so far to ensure that motorway service stations will have the electrical capacity that they will require, and what specifically do they plan to do in the next two years?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would like to reassure the noble Baroness that, if she is on the strategic road network, she should be no more than 20 miles from an electric vehicle charger. I would also like to reassure her that the Government have this in their sights. Of the £1.3 billion the Government are investing in EV charging points, £950 million is looking at future-proofing electricity capacity on the strategic road network, because we recognise that this will be a key way to recharge both electric vehicles and, in certain circumstances, freight vehicles.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest in energy, as in the register. Is not the real bottleneck in this whole programme the existing lithium ion batteries and their sheer weight and extensive mined metals content, including cobalt, copper, nickel, manganese and of course refined lithium—not to mention their very heavy carbon emissions in manufacture, large costs and long charge times? Can we be assured that the Government will encourage the new solid-state battery production, which requires far less electricity, as well as using fewer metals and being safer, cheaper, lighter, cleaner and quicker charging? Can we ensure that we secure reliable supply lines from Asia, where these new batteries are now mostly produced?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are of course focusing on our supply lines from Asia, but also on what we can do domestically. Recent experiences have shown us that being overreliant on any particular country is possibly not the wisest idea. The Government are investing £318 million in the Faraday battery challenge. Part of that is the amount of money we are investing in the Faraday Institution, which within two years has become a world leader in electrochemical energy storage research. There are 400 researchers there, looking at batteries with longer range; they are lighter, faster charging, durable, safer and sustainable. Allied to that, we will look at the supply chain for the constituent elements that need to go into those batteries.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as in the register. In my mind, the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is a good illustration of why a whole-systems approach is needed to tackle net zero. Can the Minister say what steps the Government are taking to address the problem of silos inherent in individual departmental responsibilities—for example, in BEIS and DfT? Does she agree with me that a cross-departmental delivery body sitting below the Cabinet committees is required to properly implement a systems approach to net zero?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It is probably above my pay grade to try to reorganise government from the Dispatch Box, but the noble Lord is absolutely right that numerous government departments have a very strong interest in what we are doing. For example, the Department for Transport will publish its transport decarbonisation plan in the coming weeks. As part of that, we will set out what we will do when it comes to hydrogen technology. Subsequent to that, BEIS will publish the UK hydrogen strategy, which will of course talk about how we can focus on the low-carbon production of hydrogen. We are capable of working together across departments and are doing so well so far, but the noble Lord may be right; something may be set up in future.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, despite recent progress on transport electrification, heavy goods vehicles remain difficult to electrify due to their weight. The Climate Change Committee has recommended a 2040 ban on diesel heavy vehicles. Will the Government act on this recommendation?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord; heavy goods vehicles will be one of the harder-to-reach elements for us to decarbonise. It could be that hydrogen plays a much bigger role for HGVs. We are about to consult on the date for starting to phase out the sale of diesel HGVs, and recently launched a £20 million trial of zero-emission road freight vehicles that will look at hydrogen and battery electric. It will also look at catenary systems to see whether they might work. All in all, it will advance research and development on all low-carbon fuel sources for HGVs.

[Lord Jones of Cheltenham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, hydrogen-powered vehicles are better for the environment than those powered by electric, but they cost more to run. How will the Government encourage the use of hydrogen when price is a factor?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, hydrogen vehicles are better for the environment only if the hydrogen is green hydrogen and made from renewable energy in the first place. We do understand that economic incentives may be required to encourage people to look at hydrogen but, at the end of the day, it is not an “either battery electric or hydrogen” situation; we will probably need both in great quantities, and indeed any other low-carbon energy systems that might become available. The Government will think about the financial support they might offer to encourage the take-up of those as they become available.

[Lord Wigley (PC) [V]]

My Lords, the Government’s investment in the Holyhead hydrogen hub is welcome, as is the hydrogen transport hub on Teesside, but can the Minister confirm that further plans are in development to create additional hydrogen hubs across Wales and the UK? These will help unlock the potential of the hydrogen economy. As so many of our current electricity generation plants will be closed by 2050, will enough new capacity be brought forward to facilitate this?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately, I cannot fully answer the noble Lord’s question. Much of our hydrogen strategy will be in the transport decarbonisation plan, followed by the UK hydrogen strategy, so I cannot say now where new hydrogen hubs will be set up. But the Government are very focused on ensuring that we have access to good hydrogen, because it is a suitable, flexible energy source that can be used across transport, heat and power.

E-Scooters

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of (1) the use of e-scooters, and (2) the number of (a) offences, and (b) casualties, caused by their use.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, e-scooter rental trials are under way in 31 regions across England, with the purpose of assessing their safety, benefits and wider impacts. Trials in London will begin in May. Evidence gathered from all 32 trials will inform a decision about future legal sales of e-scooters. We have made no assessment of their use, or the number of offences or casualties caused by their use, at this stage; these issues will form part of our overall evaluation, later this year.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I understand that e-scooters are illegal in London, so how is it that they are terrorising our streets and pavements, endangering and imperilling other road users and those using pavements, particularly vulnerable older pedestrians, young families and the disabled, as well as the sight-impaired? The most recent statistics that I have seen include pedal bikes, covering e-bikes and e-scooters. In 2019, 379 pedestrians were hit by pedal cyclists; four were killed and 122 were seriously injured. The questions to my noble friend are: what is the current framework for enforcement? Who is monitoring the use of e-scooters to ensure that they are limited to private land outside London and what penalties are imposed for their illegal use?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend highlights the intricacies of the different micromobility interventions that we have, of which e-scooters is but one. She is right that the private use of e-scooters on public highways is illegal. A person can be fined up to £300 or get six points on their licence, and their e-scooter can be impounded, so we have tools at our disposal. Local enforcement activities are operational decisions for local police forces.

[Lord Shinkwin (Con)]

My Lords, barely a day passes when I am not passed, in my wheelchair, on my way to the House, by someone riding an e-scooter on the pavement. Given the danger that e-scooters pose to disabled people, particularly those with visual impairments, and given the tools at the disposal of the authorities, which my noble friend the Minister has just mentioned, what reassurance can she offer disabled people that those tools will be used?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is right that it can be a frightening prospect, particularly for vulnerable people using the road or pavement, to be terrorised by e-scooter users. But that does not mean that we should not proceed with trials that will establish exactly what the risks are and build an evidence base, as to how they might be successfully used. I take note of his comments and will make sure that colleagues in the Home Office are aware of the concerns about enforcement against the use of e-scooters on pavements.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware that Birmingham is one of the cities selected for the e-scooters trial, and that representatives of the blind and partially sighted community have expressed widespread concern about the number of these wretched things that have been abandoned in the city centre as a result of this trial? Does the Minister anticipate ditching her ministerial car to use one and can she see the Peers’ car park being packed with e-scooters at some time in the future? Finally, can she reflect on replacing the private car with these sorts of machines? We have heard it all before, so will e-scooters go the same way as the Sinclair C5 or Segway?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the Government believe that e-scooters, if used in the right way, have great potential and could encourage modal shift away from the car. That is why we are doing these trials. I am delighted that Birmingham has decided to be forward-thinking, as I would expect of it, and to take up the opportunity for a trial. A lot goes into place when a trial is established; there is careful liaison with the local police and the operator. A key concern is to make sure that the scooters are put back where they belong, and we are very focused on that with each of the operators.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, will the Minister undertake to introduce lessons on the safe use of electric scooters as part of road safety education in schools, when the Government get to the point of making decisions on how they should be operated in the future? Can she also undertake that charities representing the disabled will be fully consulted before the Government make final decisions?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can certainly guarantee the latter: we will be consulting all sorts of people, when we make the final decision on the trials. As I noted, the trials are in place. I cannot go into the hypothetical of what might happen if the Government might do something in the future. However, at the moment, users of the trials get instructions from the app about their use. There are stickers on the scooters reminding people to stay off the pavements and about the areas where the scooters can be used. Some operators have advanced training modules and incentives for users to complete them.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

The Government have provided for a number of e-scooter trials around the country, as the Minister has indicated. What will constitute positive and negative outcomes of an e-scooter pilot exercise?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

That is a very specific question, to which I probably cannot provide an answer. As the noble Lord knows, when it comes to road safety, there are always benefits and significant risks to be carefully looked at together. As we go through these trials, evidence will come forth, which we will look at and make a decision accordingly.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, it is not surprising that there have been so many serious injuries, because the combined weight of a miscreant and their scooter is over 100 kilos. They often break the speed limit at over 40 mph. Will the Government encourage local police forces to enforce the law, so that injuries and death can be avoided? Blind people are particularly vulnerable, of course.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend has identified for your Lordships’ House the difference between illegal use of private e-scooters on public roads and the trials. To date, there have been 2 million journeys on e-scooters within the trials. They have travelled the equivalent distance to the moon and back 13 times, which is 5 million kilometres. In all that time, there have been zero fatalities and zero people hospitalised as in-patients. There have been 11 injuries that could be called serious, but were not hospitalisation injuries, and 62 slight injuries, such as a sprained ankle—from 2 million journeys. The noble Lord mentioned that they can go up to 40 mph. Again, that is impossible for a trial e-scooter, which is limited to 15.5 mph. It is important that we continue with these trials, embrace technology and innovation, assess the risks and make the right decision.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, while this is expensive, it is sold without any guidance or rules. I spoke to 10 scooter owners on my street, over a few days. They were of various ages and all male. Not one was aware of the restriction on public use or had been issued advice on licensing or insurance at the time of purchase. I tried it in my back yard, and it is fun. Does the Minister agree, regardless of what she is saying and the assurance she has made, that ambiguities about the rules of their use remain? When can we expect a government direction to be made available to all retailers and manufacturers? Is it time for the Government to consider a public information campaign?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

When one purchases an e-scooter, the vast majority of retailers say that it is for use on private land only. I will take the noble Baroness’s comments back to the department to see what else we can do.

[Lord Whitty (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, given the dangers to pedestrians, particularly disabled pedestrians, how come there are scooters on the pavement within a few hundred yards of the Palace of Westminster and elsewhere, when it is against the law to be on the pavement anywhere? How come there have been so few prosecutions and that you are still allowed to buy and sell these scooters when, in the trial areas, you must use those provided by designated renters only?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I have probably addressed many of the issues that the noble Lord points out. I will take that point about enforcement and what more we can do back to the Home Office. E-scooters should never be on the pavement, as is the case with bicycles. The OECD’s international transport forum analysed various global studies of e-scooter safety and concluded that they are broadly equivalent to cycles. That may or may not be reassuring to the noble Lord.

Domestic Air Travel

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the passing of a law by the National Assembly of France to prohibit domestic flights to destinations that can be reached by train in two and a half hours or less, what consideration they have given to reducing domestic air travel in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, domestic air travel in the UK ensures regional connectivity and often assists ongoing international travel. It is also vital for supporting jobs, trade and investment and ensures that social connections can be maintained. The Government recognise the critical role that aviation plays in delivering the UK’s net-zero commitment, and we support a variety of technology, fuel and market-based measures to address aviation emissions.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

It is interesting that our Government are slower to see the societal changes happening because of the pandemic than the French Government. In France, people do not want to travel as much; they have found that remote working is very effective and it has not affected the economy of most big businesses. Will the Government, after all their fine promises today, stop airport expansion and create some policies which will enable jobs to be green instead of planet-destroying?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness has deviated far from the Question at hand. Of course the Government are very focused on a green, sustainable recovery. As she will have noted in media reports today, the Government will announce further details on carbon emissions later this week.

[Lord Haselhurst (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as high-speed rail lines seem to attract stronger opposition in this country than in France, does my noble friend agree that a better course of action than that suggested by the noble Baroness would be to prioritise investment in electric and hydrogen-powered aircraft to better serve the regional network?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right that we need an aviation sector strong enough to be able to invest in decarbonisation for the future. Alongside the aviation industry, the Government are investing in the Aerospace Technology Institute, which is leading work on the delivery of zero-emission aircraft. This includes FlyZero, a £15 million project that will last for 12 months and is an in-depth study into the potential for zero-emission aircraft by 2030.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, given the Prime Minister’s very welcome endorsement of climate control, does the Minister agree that the statistic that on a similar route an aircraft emits 77% more CO₂ than a train is clearly striking? On the other hand, does she also agree that France will probably scrap only five routes as a result of this initiative, so in this country—depending, as we have heard, on the efficiency of trains—there are sadly not many routes to which this initiative would apply?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right; I have looked at this and there are probably three routes to which this would apply—for Manchester, Leeds Bradford and Exeter. Our expectation is that many passengers travelling on those domestic routes would be making an international connection, so even in France their flights would not be banned. This Government do not propose to ban domestic flights; we propose investing in high-speed rail and ensuring that our aviation sector as a whole contributes to decarbonisation.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that the speed of the French TGV had an enormous impact on the internal aviation market in that country and that timings under HS2 such as two hours and 17 minutes to Newcastle and 67 minutes to Manchester, as well as the hope for three hours to Glasgow and Edinburgh, will have a similar impact on Britain’s internal aviation? I know that she is not a member of the Green Party, but perhaps she could help me out and explain on its behalf why it is in favour of slower trains on Victorian infrastructure yet against modern high-speed trains on new infrastructure.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would love to help the noble Lord. I fear that I am unable to explain it, and the irony in this Question is very clear to me; investment in High Speed 2 is clearly good for the environment and should be continued. As he identified, the journey time savings can be significant as well as capacity.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]]

My Lords, yesterday I obtained the figures of the cost of travelling from London to Manchester and Newcastle, and from Paris to Lyons and Marseilles. The costs in France by train in all classes are at least half what they are here, and in France you go twice as fast. You get a double benefit for the money spent. A lot of answers need to come from the Treasury as to why rail fares in Britain are so much higher than they are elsewhere.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right that customers could and should make various decisions based on price. That is why the Government asked for the Williams Rail Review to be done; I recognise that it has not yet been published, because of the pandemic, but it will come out shortly. The way we reform our railway systems should have a very positive impact on fares.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a group of Green Party members who call themselves Greens for HS2? They say on social media:

“we should support HS2 because it has a big role in a low-CO2 sustainable transport network for the UK in the 2030s and beyond. HS2 supports our sustainable transport goals, nationally and locally.”

Does the Minister agree that our HS2 project will support the climate case to shift travel from air and road and, indeed, improve wildlife biodiversity? While we are about it, can she confirm that there is no question of delaying the eastern leg of HS2 to the East Midlands, Sheffield and Leeds?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, indicated to me in the Chamber just then that they are a very small group within the Green Party. I, for one, offer them my wholehearted support, given that they are able to take over the Green Party’s transport policy and align with the Government, who want to see HS2 built.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I point out to the Minister that the Greens are now a very respectable party. They will probably go into coalition with the CDU and they are on the point of destroying the German Social Democratic Party. It is therefore not surprising that they support HS2; it is completely in line with the way in which they are re-evaluating themselves. Will the Minister welcome this change from the Green Party, stick a note on her office wall and use it regularly in debates in this Chamber?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not have a great insight into the Green Party of Germany, but I thank my noble friend for his contribution.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, may I suggest to the Minister that she too establishes a new party, “Conservatives for the eastern leg of HS2”? She used to support this policy, but it has now been delayed and no date has been given. As a result of the delay, there will be no through trains on HS2 between London and Edinburgh—a route that is one of the main sources of domestic aviation. I strongly urge her to be the founding member of “Conservatives for the eastern leg of HS2”.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I have neither the time nor the energy to set up a new political party, but I reassure the noble Lord that the integrated rail plan will be published soon and will set out plans for the north of England. We are taking great interest in journey times to, for example, Scotland, under the auspices of the union connectivity review being undertaken by Sir Peter Hendy.

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I must declare an interest as I am speaking from France. Does the Minister agree that this is about not only the practicalities—it may affect only four routes—but setting an example in the year in which we are to host COP 26? Does she agree that by taking this action on domestic flights, scrapping support for electric vehicles and slashing the Green Homes Grant, the Government are setting a very poor example?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I wish the noble Baroness well in France—and I am sure that I join many in this House in saying that I would quite like to join her. On the premise of this Question, I have outlined that the Government clearly do not support banning domestic flights. That would be absolutely wrong. The noble Baroness also mentioned some other interventions. We have not scrapped electric vehicle grants, as she well knows. The amount of money available is the same, but we want to ensure that it gets to the people who need it most: those who will buy slightly less expensive cars because they probably have a lower income. Therefore, we wanted to make sure that the support that the Government give goes to those cars. Of course, it also encourages the manufacturers to reduce the prices of their cars.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Henig) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Bill [HL]

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments & Lords Hansard
Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 and 2.

1: Clause 22, page 13, line 30, leave out subsection (2)

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I do not intend to detain the House for long with my explanation of these amendments, save only to note that the Bill had a relatively incident-free passage through the other place, which I, to a great extent, attribute to the careful consideration it received in your Lordships’ House.

The Bill has returned to enable consideration of two minor amendments made in the other place. The first is Commons Amendment 1, which removed the privilege amendment, as is the norm in these cases. The second amendment—here is the mea culpa—will correct an omission, or an error if you must, in the Bill that resulted from government amendments made in your Lordships’ House on Report.

If I may explain: Schedule 8 provides the police, the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and custodial institutions with the powers they need to protect the public from the unlawful use of unmanned aircraft. Paragraph 5 of Schedule 8 sets out the meaning of “relevant unmanned aircraft offence”. Prior to the government amendment made in the other place, the offences in the Air Navigation Order 2016—ANO 2016—included in this definition were summary-only offences. In relation to Scotland, this definition should also include offences in ANO 2016 that are triable either way or on indictment. These offences were included in the definition of “relevant offence” in the Bill as introduced in January 2020. They were inadvertently omitted—that was the error, for which I apologise—by the government amendments tabled on Report in the House of Lords when the provisions setting out the definitions that apply in relation to the power to enter and search under warrant and the supplementary power to retain anything seized were restructured. If not moved, there would be no power for a justice of the peace, summary sheriff or a sheriff in Scotland to issue to a constable a warrant to enter and search premises in relation to offences in the ANO 2016 that relate to unmanned aircraft and can be tried under indictment. The supplementary power for a constable to retain items seized using powers in Schedule 8 for forensic examination, for investigation or for use as evidence at a trial would also not apply in relation to these offences.

The policy intention of the Bill remains unchanged and this amendment will not add any offences or powers not already in the Bill as introduced in January 2020. With humility and apologies from the Department for Transport, I beg to move.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am pleased to support the Commons amendments as technical changes necessary for the functioning of the Bill. The aviation industry is critical to the UK economy, and since any recovery will no doubt be prolonged, I hope the Bill will provide legislative backing for a modernisation strategy that supports that recovery. Any restructuring must be supported with a transitional strategy, for workers and our regional economy, that capitalises on the opportunity to grow industries in green technology. I look forward to the House revisiting this in the future. I am grateful that the noble Baroness, Lady Vere of Norbiton, has engaged with the Opposition Front Bench during the passage of the Bill. I also thank all those from across the House who have taken part in its stages.

[Lord Craig of Radley (CB)]

My Lords, I too support these amendments. Finally, this Bill, which started its passage through Parliament in January 2020 is to reach the statute book. I am sure that, with a justified sense of pride and relief, the Minister and all those in her Bill team, who worked so hard to achieve this outcome, deserve the commendation received from all sides of the House.

It is a piece of legislation that will not stand still. The announcement that the CAA has approved trials of beyond-visual-sight operation of drones will need to be reflected in the instructions for policing unmanned aircraft presently set out in this legislation. That process will continue, I hope smoothly, as technology and experience help to chart the way ahead. Meanwhile, I join in commending the efforts made to enact this important business, for air traffic management in particular.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their constructive engagement on these amendments, and for their comments and short contributions today.

Motion agreed.

Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs (Temporary Exceptions) Regulations 2021

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Berkeley, for giving me the opportunity to explain the Government’s position. Of course, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions.

Let me start by saying that we are absolutely committed to ensuring the welfare of drivers and protecting road safety. This Government recognise the importance of the long-standing drivers’ hours rules to achieving both of those objectives. We therefore deploy these relaxations with care.

It is worth considering the landscape back in mid-January when these regulations were laid. New customs arrangements had recently been put in place, and both traders and hauliers were adjusting to the new environment. This was still the case in mid-January. Covid infection rates were high, at 376 per 100,000, which might well have caused localised disruption to the availability of drivers. The training and testing of new drivers had stopped, causing additional pressures on a tight labour market for HGV drivers, and we were seeing a changing pattern of domestic retail demand due to lockdown. Finally, there remained the potential for unilateral interventions from third parties, as noted by my noble friend Lady Foster. For example, we saw the French Government unilaterally requiring Covid testing for hauliers. Other interventions clearly could have happened too. That was the landscape with which we were faced when we took this decision.

Furthermore, we heard concerns from those in the supply chain that localised disruptions might occur, and possibly at very short notice. We heard the concerns of Unite the Union and tried to mitigate them as much as we possibly could to ensure that any action we took was limited. The Government concluded that there was significant evidence to suggest that disruption could occur; therefore, as a precaution, we took the decision to continue with the temporary, limited extension to drivers’ hours.

The 44th report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee published on 4 February also acknowledged that contingency measures were required to deal with these risks. I thank the committee for its work on this SI, and I apologise if there was information missing from the Explanatory Memorandum that should have been included. I will encourage the department to do slightly better next time.

Some of today’s debate has focused very much on international haulage, which a number of noble Lords have mentioned; the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, talked about fewer trucks going across via the short straits. However, this is not just about international haulage: the issues I have just outlined from the landscape that we were faced with also impacted domestic haulage, which is why it was so important that we put these changes in place. A couple of noble Lords have complained that Parliament was not able to scrutinise this SI, but this is a negative SI, which is a standard parliamentary procedure. We are scrutinising it today, but noble Lords will understand that we will have to follow parliamentary procedure, as we have in this case.

I turn to the actual implementation and the safety and welfare of drivers. It is important to remember that these changes are very limited in nature. In terms of the requirements in the rules, whether it be breaks during the day, daily or weekly rest periods or weekly and fortnightly driving limits, none of these have been removed. Some have been relaxed in a limited and controlled way, and I confirm that compensatory rest arrangements, which are all related to weekly rest, stay in place, and working-time rules for drivers are unaffected.

This previously unprecedented approach of relaxing drivers’ hours had already been used in the UK, in spring 2020, at the start of the pandemic. This approach was also taken by many parts of Europe at the time. The extent of the relaxations now in force is based on that experience, but it is even more limited, especially for domestic road transport. The guidance states that relaxation should be used “only where necessary” and not at the expense of driver or road safety. While we did not consult specific external parties on road safety, the Government are content that these measures are consistent with our ambitions for improved road safety.

Turning to the guidance that we published on 20 January, before the SI was laid, I note a number of concerns over the definition of “necessary”, when allowing the relaxations to be used. The guidance makes it very clear that any relaxation of these rules emphasises the necessity of the relaxation, particularly when other supply-chain management interventions may be available to alleviate issues. “Necessary” is not defined in the regulation itself, and it is liable to vary significantly case by case. Published guidance assists the consideration of what is and is not necessary, but the circumstances for each use will be different. Operators using domestic relaxation are required to indicate that they intend to use, or have used, the relaxation, which assists transparency and the later checking of compliance, including the context of necessity.

The guidance is material to whether the relaxations have been used correctly and reputably by operators and their transport managers—and, if they have not been, they can be held to account. The DVSA has extensive powers to investigate: it can investigate domestic and international hauliers and domestic operators, and it does this across the country, not just at the ports. Of course, it can issue penalties and refer operators and transport managers to the transport commissioners if there are infringements.

The guidance about relaxation explicitly confirms that

“employers remain responsible for the health and safety of their employees”.

It also confirms:

“Driver safety must not be compromised. Drivers should not be expected to drive while tired”.


It clearly states:

“The practical implementation of the temporary relaxation should be through agreement between employers and employees and driver representatives”,


such as Unite the Union. As noted, a requirement of the use of the current relaxations for domestic journeys is that the operator informs DfT that the relaxation will be used. Reported use of the current domestic relaxation has been very limited.

There are 16 haulage firms still using the relaxations that end on 31 March 2021—that is a total of 25 operating licences because, of course, one haulage company can have a couple of them. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked which sectors these companies are in. I do not have a detailed breakdown, and I am not entirely sure that, with 16 haulage firms, it would be useful, but most of them transport freight, and the rest supply fuel. As such, the information about the people using these relaxations is passed to the DVSA—obviously, its enforcement operators will be aware of who is using these relaxations, and they can check how they were used. It is also the case that drivers using them must note on the back of their tachograph charts or the printouts the reasons why they are exceeding the normally permitted limits.

There was also a comment in the SLSC report about the initial exceptions that the Government made in December, and I reassure noble Lords that, as with these regulations, we followed the agreed process. These were put in place administratively for up to 30 days—that is the process set out in the regulations.

The noble Lord, Lord Snape, returned to the subject of customs agents, and I am delighted to be able to return to it again. Noble Lords will be aware that the Government have set out a new timetable for introducing border control processes to enable UK businesses to focus on recovering from the pandemic. This will also give us time to ensure that the inland border facilities are fully functional. Full border control processes will now be introduced on 1 January 2022, six months later than originally planned.

The Government do not directly employ customs agents or customs intermediaries, and we do not have a target for the number of customs agents. However, traders and hauliers are responding to customs requirements in a wide variety of ways. Many in the sector have innovated and brought in IT solutions to automate the process. This has reduced the number of staff required. We have helped by making more than £80 million of support available, including flexible grants that can be used for IT and training, as well as for recruitment.

There is an alternative universe. For a moment, let us assume that the Government had not taken this precautionary action and that, for whatever reason, freight flows had been impacted—perhaps to the extent set out in the Government’s reasonable worst-case scenario. In such circumstances, I could quite understand being hauled before your Lordships’ House to explain why, if we saw the possibility of freight disruption coming, we did nothing about it and were negligent in not temporarily extending drivers’ hours. Hindsight is a truly marvellous thing—and there has been a fair dollop of it in today’s debate. I remain content that we made the right decision and I hope that I have been able to reassure noble Lords. I can confirm to the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and to all noble Lords, that we will not be extending the relaxations beyond 31 March 2021, when this SI expires.

In summary, by enabling and extending the relaxations when we did, we reduced risk and enabled the supply chain to function. If there is a vote on the regret Motion, I respectfully ask noble Lords that they vote not content.

National Bus Strategy: England

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

Oh, my Lords—my officials and I spent a year working really hard on this strategy and it has been welcomed by bus operators, local authorities, passenger groups and groups representing disabled people. I am afraid that the response from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, completely took my breath away. I have never heard such a negative response to a strategy that has been so widely welcomed by pretty much everybody else. It may be that she has not fully read it. However, I hope to address some of her concerns, because I am really proud of it and I think it will do a really good job.

To be honest, we know that successive Governments have not prioritised buses. They have put them to one side and focused on more shiny things. That includes Labour, and the Liberal Democrats in coalition. What is different is that this Conservative Government are stepping up and delivering for buses. This is the biggest reform and support package for buses in decades. I am astonished that the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, does not see that. The strategy will result in improved journeys for millions of passengers. It brings local authorities and operators together to get the best from both worlds to provide for passengers.

The noble Baroness said that we could not provide these services on current funding streams. Of course, “we are not gonna”. We have said that we will put in £3 billion over the course of this Parliament and I am sorry that she does not feel that that is a lot of money. It think it is very significant, and substantially more than bus already gets. So perhaps I can delve into some of the topics that were brought up and I am sure we will have the opportunity to do a bit more.

The noble Baroness, for example, said that there was no expertise in local authorities to develop the plans for buses. However, we have committed £25 million in the coming financial year to ensure that local authorities have access to the skills and capabilities that they need. We will be setting up a bus centre of excellence where people can share their learning on how to set up enhanced partnerships, on how to do franchising and on how to get the most from their bus services improvement plans. All that is in the strategy if she cares to have a look.

An important thing to understand is that we want to break the vicious circle for buses. What has happened in the past has meant that congestion has increased, buses have got slower, journey reliability has gone down and, therefore, passenger numbers have declined. We have to break that. By encouraging these bus service improvement plans, which will set out ambitious plans from local authorities for bus lanes in their area, we are trying to break that vicious circle. Therefore, not only will people know when a bus is going to turn up, they will be able to get on it and know when they are going to arrive. That will lead to a greater number of people using buses and higher demand, which will also result in lower fares.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, talked about enhanced partnerships on franchising. It is the case that mayoral combined authorities can currently franchise, and other local transport authorities can ask the Secretary of State whether they can franchise. Given that franchising takes a lot of time, we would ask that an enhanced partnership is put in place in the meantime. However, the strategy is about giving local control over buses to local authorities, and it will be for the local authority to decide, in collaboration with operators, what type of statutory arrangement it wants to pursue. Of course, the decision by the Secretary of State will depend on the case put forward by the local authority.

On the question of marketing, it is important to remember, in the first instance, that we must get people back on to public transport as a whole. Therefore, when it is safe to do so, we will ensure that the messaging includes buses. We do not want a car-led recovery.

A number of questions were raised about zero-emission buses. I am incredibly proud of where we have been able to get to. Some £50 million is available in the current year, which we hope will be invested very soon in an all-electric bus town. Then there is £120 million for next year, which we expect, combined with the £50 million, will support up to 800 zero-emission vehicles. Further details on that will be available extremely soon.

The consultation for the end of the sale of diesel vehicles is already out there—in the wild—and the end date is 11 April. The noble Baroness said that that would eat into preparation time. We are talking about five, eight, 10 or 15 years hence—I do not think that will eat into the preparation time.

The noble Baroness also mentioned reform of BSOG. It is currently a fossil fuel-driven subsidy and clearly not fit for purpose. We will reform it and consult this year on how we can incentivise the outcomes that we particularly want to see, such as environmental ones.

There is an awful lot in the bus strategy on the needs of disabled passengers. We will roll out the audiovisual announcements, backed by £1.5 million of funding for small operators. We will require every local authority to have a bus passenger charter, to ensure that disabled passengers get the services that they need. We will review the public service vehicle accessibility regulations by the end of 2023 to ensure that they meet the requirements of disabled passengers, and we will consult on improving access for wheelchair users and on priority seating.

I have much more to say about the national bus strategy, but unfortunately I am out of time.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Henig) (Lab)]

We now come to the 20 minutes allocated to Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers. I start with the noble Lord, Lord Lucas.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is very nice to have three minutes each for Back-Bench questions. I hope to take less than that. I start by congratulating the Minister on the publication of Bus Back Better. It is the most powerful transport policy document of recent years. I will put my hand up for on-demand autonomous buses when they come—they will be ideal for low-density south-coast towns.

My question for the Government is: to help those LTAs that are less successful, will the DfT move quickly to set up the dissemination of practical best advice? Will it ask the star performing LTAs how bus lanes were handled on shopping streets with delivery requirements; how narrow streets requiring the removal of parking were dealt with; and how fast but meaningful consultations could be carried out? These are all things that good LTAs have done well, as page 18 of the report makes clear, showing

“an average benefit-cost ratio of 4.2”

among 33 major bus schemes. The DfT knows where a lot of good practice is; it should not be hard to share it.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his warm words about the bus strategy—it is nice to have some. The noble Lord also makes a very important point: because we are giving more local control and accountability for bus services, the ability of local transport operators to put in place their bus service improvement plans will be critical. The noble Lord spoke of their need to share best practice. That is absolutely in the plan: the bus centre of excellence will combine learning from not only the Department for Transport but bus operators and the leading LTAs—which are already well down this track—and it will encourage everyone and ensure that they can move together at the same speed. We do not want what I call the recalcitrant LTAs: the people who have not loved buses as much as the Government have. My ambition is to make sure that we have no recalcitrant LTAs and that across the country everybody levels up so that we have good bus services everywhere.

The noble Lord mentioned demand-responsive transport. He will have seen the £20 million that we have put into 17 bids across the country. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, mentioned them. We published the list of 17 successful places back in early January; all of them have moved into the final stage and secured funding. Demand-responsive transport will be really good for rural areas. The noble Lord wants them to be autonomous, and so do I, but perhaps not just yet.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on the documents. Unlike the spokesperson for the Liberal party, I welcome it. The fact that she has embraced so many policies that the Labour Party has advocated for so many years is entirely to her credit. More power to her elbow, say I. Has the Minister read the Prime Minister’s foreword? I know these things are traditionally written for Prime Ministers, but it is everything we have come to expect from the Prime Minister: a mixture of comedy, hyperbole and demagoguery. Talking about the bus industry it states:

“Outside London, with a few exceptions, that lesson has not been learned.”


He is comparing London to the rest of the country. As a former chairman of a major bus operator, I could have learned some lessons if we had thrown £1 billion in subsidy at buses in Birmingham over the period since deregulation, but we never had the opportunity.

Will the Minister say what happened to the £5 billion that the Prime Minister announced with suitable flair about a year ago? It has now been reduced to £3 billion. It is welcome nevertheless. How will it be distributed? Will there be proper consultation with local authorities and bus operators? Will the Minister accept my congratulations on the paper as far as it goes? Next time we take a bus trip together, which she has promised, I will see if I can sell her a few more Labour Party policies on the journey.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I think good ideas should not be party political. The noble Lord, Lord Snape, mentioned the £5 billion. If he were to read the—I would say “small print” but it was not small print—document, the £5 billion was for cycling, walking and buses, so there was £3 billion for buses and £2 billion for cycling and walking. However, the noble Lord makes a very serious point. I am delighted that the strategy is out of the door, but I am under no illusion: the hard work is about to start because we have £3 billion and we have to think about exactly how we spend it. At the moment we cannot decide that because we do not know what sort of bus service improvement plans are going to be coming forth from the local transport authorities.

The timeline looks like this: by 30 June, each transport authority will say that it is going to have either an enhanced partnership or franchising and that the bus operators are willing to take part; they will then have to work very hard indeed to prepare a bus service improvement plan by 31 October. On the basis of those bus service improvement plans and the amount of funding that is needed in order to provide the sort of revenue funding and capital funding required for those plans, the funding will be distributed. Of course, it could also be the case that bus lanes could be bolstered through a levelling up fund, so there is a lot of opportunity for local transport authorities at the moment to take buses by the scruff of the neck and bring them into the 21st century and beyond.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I give this document a very cautious welcome because it puts a lot of good ideas forward. How they will be carried out I do not know, but we have to be aware that the motoring industry is engaged at the moment in selling young people cheap motor cars, probably end-of-the-line motor cars. It is like the way tobacco companies engage young smokers. Once you have hooked them, you go on exploiting them for the rest of their life.

The Government must make the new buses very environmentally friendly. I make a special plea that they use clean air so that in future we are not recirculating dirty air into buses, which we do now, as it will give us a lead over the Chinese if we can do that. It is important that bus priority measures are given the Government’s full authority. There will be lots of people who will try very hard to stop priority measures going in, often misguided chambers of commerce and local authorities. Priority measures are essentially because we have no choice but to deal with pollution, which is one of the biggest killers of our time. It is unseen but is steadily going on with its work of killing people. I am very pleased to see that moving traffic offences are going to be decriminalised, which will help matters no end.

The last thing I want to mention is that right at the end of the report concessionary fares get some attention. They are out of control. If the Government want an idea that may work and perhaps will not cost too much, maybe they will have to get to a situation where younger pensioners do not get a free pass but are able to purchase a concessionary pass. Older or disabled pensioners will still be able to get free passes. A lot of people who use the concessionary fares could very well afford to make some subscription to a better service.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his somewhat lengthy contribution.

[A noble Lord]

Very lengthy.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Other noble Lords are saying very lengthy; I would not say so.

I might pick out something of great importance that the noble Lord said about bus priority, because it is a big issue. The Government support local authorities putting in careful bus priority measures because, as I said, it would break the vicious cycle. Perhaps the noble Lord did not see it, but the Government are going to update the statutory traffic management guidance. It will make sure that local authorities promote bus reliability as part of the highways authority network management duty. That will be a really helpful way to put a rod in the back of some of the recalcitrant LTAs and help them to put things into place. The noble Lord also noted that we are going to commence Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act, which, again, I think will be helpful.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the bus strategy for cleaner, greener, better buses and bus services. The regulations on the information on accessibility are not due to be done until summer 2022. Would my noble friend consider a more ambitious timetable? Similarly, when it comes to the physical nature of vehicles at the end of 2023, might the Government consider a more ambitious timetable there too? Finally, in terms of accessibility for disabled people and older people, what innovations are being deployed? There is much that can be done. Technology can play a brilliant part, both in terms of the vehicles themselves and in delivering inclusive buses and bus services for all.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his warm welcome of the strategy. I note that he has been a doughty campaigner on the issue of audio-visual announcements on buses. I feel very sorry that we have not been able to bring it in sooner. I will take the question back to the department to see whether we can do the regulations earlier than summer 2022. I do not want to overpromise and underdeliver, but I can definitely ask. I will also do the same on the accessible vehicle regulations.

My noble friend mentioned innovation when it comes to disabled people and, indeed, everybody, travelling. It is important to remember is that it is the bus operators who are the innovators in the industry. They are the ones who know their customers and they often go far beyond the regulations that government puts in place. They do it because it is the right thing to do; it is what their passengers want. That is why I am delighted that operators will still be at the heart of what we are doing with buses. I am sure that they will innovate in the way that I expect.

[Lord Greaves (LD)]

My Lords, for the last four or five years, we have had a Government who have produced lots of very black and white-looking documents, usually a thousand pages long and full of lots of impenetrable words. Suddenly we are into glossy brochures again. I am not complaining, because I can cut the glossy brochures out and pin them on the wall for my grandson.

In the 20 years that I have been a Member of this House I have accumulated a vast number of glossy brochures produced by Governments. When I look at them now, most of them bear little relationship to what actually happened. I welcome the fact that the Government have noticed buses again. I welcome the passion that we have seen from my noble friend Lady Randerson and from the Minister. If buses are the modern passion of the House of Lords, that is great, but will the Minister accept that a national bus strategy can work only if it consists of myriad local bus strategies which must be in the hands of local people who know what is needed and what is wanted?

Will the Minister also accept that, while the document says that people want simpler fares and more routes and services, in many areas they also want much cheaper fares? I think noble Lords would be astonished at how much it costs to take a simple, short ride on a bus in many parts of the country outside big cities. It is okay if you are in a metropolitan area where it is subsidised—it is nirvana in London—but out in the sticks it is very expensive indeed and people will not leave their cars unless it is much cheaper.

Finally, will the Minister accept that, in addition to the concentration on cities and rural areas, a huge number of important bus services serve ordinary small and medium-sized towns? Towns are the most difficult places in which to provide frequent, cheap services because they do not have the demand of cities, and there is not the requirement for at least a skeleton service in rural areas that people recognise. Towns—the places in between and on the edge—are the places that this strategy will succeed or fail by.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is right, and in the middle of his contribution he basically set out what is in the strategy: giving control and accountability to local authorities. He made some important points about services and how different areas will have different needs. One of the bits buried in the bus strategy is how local authorities will be expected to set up something like a bus advisory board or equivalent, which will take into account the views of local people, services and businesses—everyone who has an interest in making the network run as well as it can. Even though all those people will put in their contributions, it will be up to the local authority to have the skills and capabilities to meet those needs and devise the sort of network that will be required. That bit is probably quite challenging, which is why we have put quite a lot of money into it.

Alongside listening to people and putting the network into place, it will depend on the situation; the strategy is not focused on rural and urban—it is focused on everywhere, as we recognise that every single place will be different. In some areas, turn-up-and-go on bus corridors will be perfectly acceptable and we will be able to put in more services in the evenings and at weekends. The other area that concerns me, to be honest, is cross-border services: how we make sure that longer services between two local transport authorities continue to function in an effective fashion. I recognise there is a lot to do. The Government stand ready to provide guidance, advice and support to local authorities as they take this challenge and run with it.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I warmly welcome the bus strategy and congratulate the department and my noble friend on the document they have brought forward. I particularly welcome the rural mobility fund and place on record that it will be a huge help in rural areas, for much the same reason that the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, gave. It will ease parking in market towns such as Thirsk and Northallerton if people can access a bus.

I also welcome the concessionary fares funding. The document states on the very last page:

“While the bus market is recovering, we will still look to Local Authorities to contribute to the operation of their bus markets, though to a decreasing extent.”


It refers in an earlier passage to the national concessionary travel scheme. I want to place on record that, while the Labour Government came forward with the scheme, which was very welcome in rural areas, neither for the initial scheme when it was local nor for the extended scheme when it became national were sufficient funds made available to the local transport authorities. From which budget, in these times when local authority budgets have been particularly stretched, does my noble friend think the money for concessionary fares will come?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises an important point which is directly relevant to the support we are providing to the bus sector at the moment. Noble Lords will be aware that we have asked local authorities to continue funding bus operators in terms of their concessionary fares contributions at the same level as they did previously, even though the demand is significantly reduced. The vast majority are still doing that, and it is very welcome—indeed, essential —for their local areas. That funding comes from MHCLG; it is within the budgets that local authorities set and the funding streams they receive.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Henig) (Lab)]

My Lords, all questions have now been asked.

Hauliers

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Thursday 4th March 2021 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I am enormously grateful to my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach for raising this important issue and, of course, for the contributions of all noble Lords. I am also grateful to the members of the public who shared their concerns digitally.

We have been working with the logistics industry over a number of years to understand and minimise the potential impacts on hauliers and the traders they serve at the end of the transition period. We want to increase understanding and reduce confusion across the system, and make the process as seamless as it can possibly be. Where improvements can be made, we make them as quickly as we can so that, in time, the system will adjust.

I believe that these processes will be part of normal business life, like filling in a VAT return: it is not pleasant, but you just do it. We are absolutely committed to reducing friction as much as we possibly can—to remove the grit from the engine, as the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, said. I assure noble Lords that the latest available data shows that overall freight volumes between the UK and the EU are back to normal levels. I will write with further details about value and the number of empty containers—in fact, I will probably be writing on pretty much everything today, but that is a tribute to the quality of the debate.

I turn first to market access for hauliers, because the deal we reached with the EU allows 95% of journeys to continue as they previously did. That is one of the most important things that we were able to deliver for the haulage sector as a whole. I assure the Lord, Lord Bradshaw, that we received a substantial amount of advice, both commissioned and unsolicited, from a wide range of voices in the logistics sector.

As we have heard today from several noble Lords, specialist hauliers—those involved in cultural and sporting events—have significant concerns following the TCA, and they have of course been impacted because of the number of internal EU movements on which they rely. Market access agreements for hauliers transporting equipment for cultural events was discussed regularly and in detail during the negotiations between the UK and the EU. The UK put forward specific proposals for liberalised access but the EU was unable to agree more flexible arrangements. Of course, the Department for Transport remains in contact with the industry, and we are also working in close collaboration with DCMS and BEIS to see what we can do to support the creative industries.

Turning to the wider changes—perhaps a little beyond transport—introduced by the end of the transition period, on exports, since the start of January, traders and hauliers have needed to comply with new requirements to export to the EU, including customs declarations and sanitary and phytosanitary checks. I am pleased to say that the number of turn-backs at the border is far lower than some forecasts and, indeed, than some noble Lords suggested in their remarks today. For example, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, who called it a complete disaster, might be interested to know fewer than 5% of trucks at the short straits have to be turned back, and some of those will be because they do not have a valid Covid certificate, not because they do not have the correct customs forms. We need to temper our messages. I am not saying that there is no room for improvement—we must strain every sinew to make sure that people are fully aware of their obligations—but I am saying that the system is not completely broken, as has been implied by some noble Lords.

On imports, we have assisted international hauliers by taking a phased approach to the introduction of various checks. Until 1 July, traders can import non-controlled goods from the EU by using the existing customs processes or by making a declaration in their own records at the point the goods entered GB, followed by a supplementary declaration, which must be submitted to HMRC within 170 days of the date of import. That seems a reasonable and doable solution. The next milestone is 1 April and relates to some products of animal origin; we are of course communicating those changes. The more significant change happens from July 2021, when traders moving any goods will have to make full customs declarations at the point of importation and pay relevant tariffs.

Of course, we are taking many steps to make sure that we as a Government are ready and that traders are ready. We are making sure that HMRC can cope with the increased volumes by building on the successful delivery and upscaling of systems for the end of the transition period. I will write with more detail, particularly to my noble friend Lord Holmes, who I understand is a bit of an expert, so I will need some officials’ help with that.

We are also delivering new compliance capabilities to improve HMRC’s ability to spot and tackle non-compliance, including using data from when staged controls end. We are introducing a compliance approach to support traders to get ready and continuing to take robust action against those who choose not to comply. We are streamlining authorisation requirements, applications and processes to help meet the expected increase in demand and to improve effectiveness. We are also working with the intermediary sector to increase capacity and capability for traders to comply with the new declaration requirements.

Of course, all those changes need to be communicated, and the Government have done an enormous amount of outreach to hauliers and haulage managers. That started many months ago, and it continues. It is continually being improved. We are learning lessons and putting them in place. All information is provided on GOV.UK, and there is a haulier handbook, which is updated when needed. We engaged in the process of drafting the handbook with Logistics UK, the Road Haulage Association and many others to ensure that it was as clear as possible. It is published in English and 13 other EU languages. We will consider other languages if there is a demonstrated need, but we feel that we have enough at the moment. We also have 46 information and advice sites. When I first heard about them, I thought, “What use are they going to be?”, but more than 137,000 hauliers have visited them since they opened in November. I think that is astonishing. More than 11,400 hauliers have received specific border readiness consultations at our sites, so it is not surprising that less than 5% of trucks arriving at the border are fully non-compliant. We are doing all right.

My noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach mentioned the inland border facilities. There are, and will be, a number of them. Information on all of them has been published on GOV.UK, with details of their logistics, their functions and their facilities. Hauliers are told what to expect at the site, what they need to prepare and any key documents that they need to bring.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, was concerned about whether we have been talking to EU hauliers. I can reassure him that, of course, we have. We not only speak at their industry days, but we make speeches at their major conferences and events, and we have exhibition stands both physically and virtually. Much of that will continue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, asked whether we have digital interaction. We do. We have a dedicated haulier website with an embedded live chat function. This function has on average 35 in-depth conversations, lasting 20 minutes, each day, and around 700 hauliers a day ask advice. We have agents who speak English, Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian. We are particularly pleased that that is working well. However, we understand that there are lessons to learn, and we have learned them. We must put that into our communications as we go through April and then through the second change in July.

I now turn to Northern Ireland support and the specific situation in Northern Ireland. The Government remain committed to supporting hauliers in moving goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. For example, we established the Trader Support Service—the TSS—which is designed to support all businesses impacted by the Northern Ireland protocol. The service is free to use, and it can complete declarations on behalf of traders without traders needing to engage directly with new digital customs systems and processes. More than 34,000 traders are registered to use the service, and thousands of declarations are being processed each day. The contact centre is, of course, providing additional support. To date, the TSS has processed more than 68,000 goods movements, involving 200,000 consignments, since launching. The contact centre has more than 700 staff and answers more than 17,000 calls, with an average answering speed of six seconds.

Not only do we have the TSS but there is also the movement assistance scheme—MAS—which was announced to complement the existing TSS. It provides help to all those traders who move food or agricultural products for which specific sanitary and phytosanitary—SPS—controls apply. This means that a trader moving live animals or other animal or plant products does not need to pay to have them inspected. The MAS scheme also has a dedicated helpline for general enquiries for traders and, together these measures, it is making it easier to move agri-food goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

A third intervention in Northern Ireland was Defra’s digital assistance scheme—DAS—which supports the continued movement of agri-food goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. It also addresses the costs and burdens of compliance with a protocol for industry. It uses digitised certification and verification processes and was backed by a major amount of government funding.

A number of noble Lords have mentioned groupage, which is a concern that we are well aware of. We have developed two groupage models, and they have been agreed. The guidance for these models for Northern Ireland was published on 29 January, and we will be looking to see how these models work and whether further improvements can be made.

Noble Lords will know that yesterday the Government went further to support trade between GB and NI. My noble friend Lord Frost is clear that progress needs to be made to address the direct and often disproportionate impact that aspects of the protocol are having on the citizens of Northern Ireland, contrary to its intended purpose. So, yesterday, following official-level notification to the Commission earlier this week, we set out temporary technical steps that largely continue measures that are already in place. They provide more time for businesses, such as supermarkets and parcel operators, to adapt to and implement the new requirements of the protocol.

For my noble friend Lord Attlee, I will speak very briefly on abnormally large loads. I am aware of this issue, and we have taken it up with the French Government via the British embassy. I will write with further details, but we hope to have it resolved.

I have not covered haulage drivers, but I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, that they are towards the top of my list of things to do. It is a significant issue, and the Government are doing a significant amount on apprenticeships, but it is time for me to speak to the industry because I believe that it has to step up and start looking at ways to recruit its own drivers. It is critical.

To the noble Lord, Lord Snape, I say that of course we want to see a switch to rail freight where it is feasible. We had an Oral Question on this recently. It forms part of the Government’s plans for the future.

All the measures I have mentioned today highlight the fact that my department and the Government are supporting hauliers to transport goods internationally on many fronts.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The Grand Committee stands adjourned. I remind Members to sanitise their chairs and desks before leaving the Room.

Transport for London: Financial Settlement

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in discussions with Transport for London on a financial settlement (1) for 2021/22, and (2) beyond.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to providing Transport for London with a financial deal that is sustainable, supports London’s recovery and keeps the capital moving. Any deal must be fair to the UK tax- payer. On 11 January, TfL provided us with a financial sustainability plan, which sets out its plans to achieve financial sustainability by April 2023. The Government hope to announce further Covid-related financial support for TfL shortly.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, TfL has suffered a double blow to its income from the pandemic and from years of irresponsible fare setting by the Mayor of London. While my noble friend grapples with that temporary challenge, will she also bear in mind that a railway needs steady capital investment too, and that there are parts of London Underground operating with signalling and rolling stock that is over 50 years old and is creaking at the seams. Will she, in support of the Government’s infrastructure objectives, seek to ensure that TfL is allowed a medium-term investment programme—however modest—to address these problems?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right: there have been some quite interesting fare increases—or not—from the mayor over recent years. We estimate that over the past four years his fares freeze has cost £640 million, which could otherwise have been spent on capital expenditure. But, as my noble friend knows, transport in London is devolved and it is up to the mayor and TfL to assess the merits of capital projects that they might want to invest in. However, it is absolutely clear that the Mayor of London must set a robust budget, demonstrate that TfL is on a clear path to achieving financial sustainability, and prioritise his capital expenditure. He will have to make difficult choices.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, many of us are old enough to remember renewing our road funds not with the DVLA but with the county council. It was £12 and 10 shillings when I started driving. I see that the Mayor of London has revived this policy as part of the problems of Transport for London, which would also broaden the base for local government taxation. Does my noble friend have a view on the merits of this policy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend raises a very interesting period of time that unfortunately I do not remember, but it is the case that the Mayor of London has some very interesting ideas as to how he wants vehicle excise duty to be spent. It is one of the proposals in the financial sustainability plan he has prepared, which I have to say does seem to have been drafted with a money-no-object mindset. Noble Lords will know that vehicle excise duty is used for the strategic roads network, which is the motorways and the major A roads, so unless we are going to stop Londoners from using our motorways and buying products that have been brought into London by HGVs travelling on them, I see absolutely no rationale for devolving VED.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I read in the Financial Times today that the ONS says that as an average Londoner I receive about £4,000 less in public spending than I pay in tax. As a proponent of progressive taxation, I am happy to pay, but the fable of the goose that lays the golden egg comes to mind. Will the Minister agree that the economic prosperity of the whole country depends on a prosperous London, and that that requires, among other things, a well-connected London with excellent public transport? Is it not remarkable that London is the only major city in the world where there is no contribution from general taxation, from which the whole country would benefit?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that London will play a very important part in the economic future of our nation; in 2018 it made 23% of UK GDP. But while much of the funding for Transport for London comes from passenger revenues, there are other routes by which it gets money; for example, business rates retention, which is a retention which would otherwise have gone to Her Majesty’s Government. So one might assume that there is a broad breadth of sources of funding for TfL, but I agree—the Government want to support London’s recovery and we want to keep the capital moving.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, train operating companies have received billions of pounds from the start of the pandemic to keep trains running, with minimal requirements in return. Why has Transport for London not been treated with the same generosity, and why are the Government determined to dictate the minute details of the way services are run, which they have not done on railways elsewhere? Surely this could not be political.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, TfL has also received billions of pounds over the Covid pandemic. I am not sure where the noble Baroness is getting her information from about the differential between the conditions that are put on the train operating companies and on TfL. The Government make demands on the train operating companies. We work incredibly closely with them on, for example, what the level of services should be and whether engineering works should take place. We put significant conditions on our support for them. We put some conditions on TfL support, such as looking at the future of driverless trains and increasing efficiency targets. All these things are perfectly reasonable.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

Instead of levelling up the north, where the Government have cut £4 million from Transport for the North, clearly the Government intend to level down London’s transport network. Virtually every answer that we have heard from the Minister today has confirmed that this is the Government’s approach. Can the Minister confirm or otherwise that the Government are not seeking to force TfL into making cuts to its service level, which would be completely counterproductive and place at risk the economic recovery of central London, which, like it or not, is still the engine of the UK economy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government will provide funding to TfL. We have already said that we will and that we want to keep the capital moving. That is essential. We can also agree that the forecast scenarios that are available for passenger demand will, quite frankly, resolve only over a period of time. The Mayor of London is going to have to think about his capital expenditure and service levels in the future. He may have to make difficult decisions, but there are a number of reforms that the Mayor of London should have done but has not done, and probably should do in the future, in addition to potentially looking at service levels.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, pursuant to the Question posed by my noble friend Lord Moylan, and in recognition of the long service that he has given to this subject, significant focus has been placed on new underground lines. However, does my noble friend the Minister recognise and accept that the settlement should focus as much on revenue as on the vital need for a fully funded capital programme to upgrade existing underground lines, in addition to the “new tube for London” programme?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

There are many strands to the capital programme. Some of them are short- to medium-term. The Government will expect the mayor to make decisions that encourage the economic growth of London. One of the other important considerations when thinking about how we develop the London Underground will be housing. My noble friend may have seen that the Government agreed to safeguard the land for the Bakerloo line extension. It cannot be built now but it may be built in the future.

[Lord Taylor of Warwick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, what assessment have the Government made of the potential for further growth in goods and passenger transport on the River Thames, which, at 215 miles long, is the longest river in England?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As transport in London is devolved, the Government have not assessed the usefulness or otherwise of the River Thames. I suggest that the noble Lord takes that up with the Mayor of London.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, Crossrail’s budget has been under pressure recently, and one of the stations that has not yet been started is Old Oak Common. Can the Minister tell the House what the budget is for Old Oak Common station, and how it is broken down between Crossrail, HS2 and Great Western Railway? If she cannot tell me, can she please write me?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Had the noble Lord given me fair warning of that question, I would have been delighted to answer it for the Chamber. However, I will discuss very briefly the amount of funding that the Government have been able to support for Crossrail. Back in August 2020 the board of Crossrail said that it would need another £1.1 billion, which was probably about the P70 budget. The Government have announced £825 million so that the GLA can borrow further funds to get Crossrail over the line and open to passengers.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Government commissioned a report into TfL’s finances from KPMG in June 2020. They said at the time that this was to understand TfL’s needs. The Government are now refusing to publish this report despite businesses and politicians urging them to. The suspicion is that they are playing political games. When will they end this secrecy so that Londoners get the transparency that they deserve?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that the Government did commission that report. It extends to many hundreds of pages, and contains a huge amount of commercial information which we would not want to see in the public domain, as it would not be beneficial to the future of TfL. But the report did give us a firm understanding of where TfL is at the current time. It should be remembered that, even before the pandemic, TfL had a deficit in 2018-19 of £494 million. Combined with that KPMG report and the financial sustainability plan that we have received from TfL, we are in a much better place to help the Mayor of London get TfL back on its feet, and the Government are ready to support that.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Rail Freight: Channel Tunnel

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bradshaw]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the barriers to using the Channel Tunnel for the conveyance of rail freight; and what plans they have, if any, to overcome such barriers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government engage regularly with the international freight sector to discuss a range of issues and are keen to see the expansion of rail freight services running through the tunnel. It is ultimately a commercial decision for rail freight operators whether to facilitate new services, but the Government are open to engaging with industry-led proposals and potential new operators where there is a commercial proposition.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but what needs to change to make it feasible to see more rail freight using the Channel Tunnel and the HS1 route to London?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I have just explained to the noble Lord, this is a commercial decision by the freight operating companies. The Government certainly stand by to support where we can. For example, we are developing and, indeed, have developed, bespoke customs regimes for rail freight traffic through the tunnel. We have already approved regimes at Barking, Dagenham, Daventry, Scunthorpe and Widnes. We are also looking at, for example, gauge clearance for alternative access routes to the Channel Tunnel. At the heart of all this, the industry has to demonstrate to government that if we put these interventions in place it will come forward with commercial proposals.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I take the Minister’s point that it is a commercial decision, but the Government could help hauliers and exporters of all kinds. What about setting up an innovations fund that they could bid for money from when they have a viable plan? This would stimulate the move from road to rail.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I think the noble Baroness is referring to our Mode Shift Revenue Support scheme, which is indeed already in place. It supports rail services where they may be slightly less commercial, to try to get freight off the road and on to rail. During the Covid pandemic we made sure that part loads would also be supported. The noble Baroness will also be pleased to hear that we have increased funding to this scheme by 28% in 2021 and it now amounts to £20 million.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, does my noble friend share my concern that rail freight was down 37% in January this year over last year and that passenger traffic through the tunnel was down 71% in January over last year? What support might they be eligible for, for problems that are not of their making but are largely a result of the bureaucratic and administrative change of rules because of Brexit and the situation with Covid? Will she join with me in paying tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, without whose good offices we may not have had a tunnel at all?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I will certainly join my noble friend for the latter comment. The tunnel is a great thing. The noble Baroness asked what support is available. We are working very closely with Eurotunnel to help it access the Government’s support schemes. Some of the Eurotunnel revenues remain in place, because of course haulage continues to go through on the shuttle system. The noble Baroness mentioned that freight was down 37% year-on-year in January. That was because, I think, people were expecting some changes and some impact of Covid. She will be relieved to hear that in February there was a 34% increase over January, and therefore I feel that things are heading in the right direction.

[Lord Snape (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that only around 1 million tonnes of through-freight is taken across the Channel on long-distance freight trains from this country, whereas more than 20 million tonnes is taken on 1.6 million lorries? If you add to it the 2.5 million lorries a year thundering down the M20 to use the sea crossing at Dover, leaving these things to—as she puts it—commercial matters when they are environmentally disastrous is not what those of us who supported the Channel Tunnel from its inception really believed.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord will know that whether a consignment uses conventional rail freight or an HGV will very much depend on the nature of the goods being transported. Conventional rail freight is more often used for more dense goods, such as those from the steel and automotive sectors and other bulk goods. But, as I have already said, there is capacity to increase conventional rail freight through the Channel Tunnel and we look forward to those who wish to do so.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, Eurostar also goes through the tunnel and is in serious financial difficulty, yet the Secretary of State says that it is not his company to save. Well, neither are the domestic train operators that have received billions in government support. Does the Minister accept that, although the Government may not have a legal obligation to Eurostar, they have a moral duty to the planet to ensure the survival of this environmentally friendly alternative to flying to Europe?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government continue to discuss Eurostar’s financial situation with the French Government. At the moment there are no proposals on the table.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con) [V]]

My Lords, how many of these delays are due to widespread strikes in France over pensions and how many are due to the EU being, as usual, as difficult as ever? I have found no record, of course, of the EU ever having been accused of fairness and honesty.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not sure about the delays to which my noble friend has referred, but it is the case that at the end of the year, freight flows decreased somewhat owing to both testing for hauliers, which had to be put in place quickly in December, and preparations for the end of the transition period in January. However, I reassure my noble friend that all freight is now flowing as it should.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

The Minister said that there has been a 34% increase in freight truck traffic through the Channel Tunnel in February compared with January. Can she say whether that is a 34% increase in volume or in value, and does it apply equally across all sectors of industry and services?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would love to have the answers to those questions, but I am afraid that I do not, and I do not have a calculator with me at this moment. However, I will write to the noble Lord with the details he has set out. It is the case that, in January, we were looking at daily HGV traffic flows in the region of around 2,800 vehicles on average and that we are now up into the area of mid-3,000 vehicles. I will write to the noble Lord with the analysis that he would like to see.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, is not one of the barriers referred to in the Question the fact that gauges in the UK restrict the destination of much of the freight traffic coming through the tunnel? What progress is being made with the gauge enhancement programme to make it easier to send more freight through the Channel Tunnel by rail?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

This is a fascinating area and I thank my noble friend for raising it. We are developing a number of loading gauge enhancement projects to extend the strategic freight network of routes to offer the greatest flexibility for carrying intermodal shipping containers on standard wagons. We are working on the Great Western main line between Didcot and Bristol, on the Midland main line between Syston and Trent and, as I have mentioned, we are looking at alternative routes to the Channel Tunnel. Clearances for W10 and W12 will probably offer fairly poor value for money, so further development is more likely to consider W9A, which would allow containers on specialist wagons with lower decks.

[Lord German (LD) [V]]

Given that there are only nine months of grace, what progress have the UK Government made in securing a bilateral agreement to operate trains through to Calais-Fréthun, and what would be the impact on trade through the tunnel if the UK had to secure EU licensing in order to operate those trains?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We continue to work with the French Government on seeking arrangements for the longer term. This will include recognition of operator licences, safety certificates and train driver licences. We expect the impact of the longer-term arrangements on operators, when they are agreed, to be minimal.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady McIntosh and Lady Vere, for their kind words. However, is one solution to increasing the volume of rail freight traffic through the tunnel not in the Minister’s hands, because of the reduction in passenger traffic and therefore the greater capacity that is available on many parts of the network? She has talked about gauge enhancement, but we need more terminals and capacity. That would attract the just-in-time deliveries that I am sure she would be very keen to see.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to say that there are things that we can do; indeed, we are doing them. Network Rail is working with the freight operating companies on timetabling to ensure that we can prioritise freight, in particular in these times of lower passenger numbers. Of course, passengers will come back to the trains one day and we need to make sure that whatever solution we put in place now is for the longer term. However, I reassure the noble Lord that we will leave no stone unturned and that we greatly welcome his input in these matters.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and we now move to the next Question.