Gambling and Lotteries

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

Mr Speaker, I hope you will accept my apologies for any offence caused by some of the information already being out there. I can assure you that the full details and the call for evidence document are only just now being released and made available on the gov.uk website, precisely to coincide with this statement, but I understand and accept what you said.

The Gambling Act has been the basis of virtually all gambling regulation in the UK since 2005, but a huge amount has changed since then. The internet and the prevalence of smartphones have transformed the way we work, play, shop and gamble. We can now gamble anywhere at any time. It is time to take stock of the significant changes of the last 15 years and to pull our legal and regulatory framework into the digital age, so today, we are launching the first part of our comprehensive review of the Gambling Act. It will be a wide-ranging and evidence-led look at the industry, and it will consider the many issues that have been raised by parliamentarians and many other stakeholders. We want to listen, gather the evidence and think deeply about what we need for the next decade and beyond.

Nearly half the adult population gambles each month and, for the majority of people, gambling is a fun and carefree leisure activity. It is also a sector that supports 100,000 jobs and pays nearly £3 billion a year in taxes. However, we know that, in some cases, gambling can cause significant damage to people’s lives, including mental health problems, relationship breakdown, debt and, in extreme cases, suicide. We must ensure that our regulatory and legislative framework delivers on a core aim of the 2005 Act: the protection of children and vulnerable people in a fair, open and crime-free gambling economy.

This review will seek to strike a careful balance between giving individuals the freedom to choose how they spend their own money, while protecting vulnerable people and their families from gambling-related harm. We will look at whether we should introduce new protections on online products and consumer accounts, including stake and prize limits, and how we can ensure that children and young people are protected. We will also consider gambling advertising, including sports sponsorship, while taking into account the extremely difficult financial situation that many sports organisations and broadcasters find themselves in as a result of covid. We will look at redress arrangements for consumers where, for example, an operator has failed to step in to help a problem gambler. We will consider barriers to effective research on the causes and impact of problem gambling, and we will consider whether the Gambling Commission is keeping pace with the licensed sector and can effectively deal with unlicensed operators. We will also ensure that we have a fair playing field for online and offline gambling.

Many of those areas were highlighted in a thought-provoking report by the House of Lords Select Committee. That report and others have helped to inform our thinking and our desire to ensure that the review is wide in scope, and we are publishing our response to the Lords report alongside the review. I also know that Members across the House have seen evidence from their constituents about the harm that gambling can do to individuals and their families. We want to hear from the people whose lives have been affected by gambling, as well as from academics and the gambling industry, so that we have the evidence to deliver real and lasting change. We are therefore starting the review with a call for evidence, which will run for 16 weeks and is now available on the gov.uk website.

While this review is an opportunity to consider changes for the future, we are also taking action now to protect people from gambling harm. The Gambling Commission will continue to build on recent progress to strengthen protections as the industry regulator. Our ban on gambling with credit cards came into force in April, and new tighter rules on VIP schemes were implemented at the end of October. Further work is also in progress on the design of online slot games, as well as on how operators identify and intervene to protect customers who may be at risk, including through affordability checks. We have also just closed a call for evidence on loot boxes, and the Department of Health and Social Care will keep working to improve and expand treatment for problem gambling.

A key priority is ensuring that we have the right protections for children and young people and, again, that cannot wait. To that end, we are also today publishing a response to the consultation on the minimum age to play national lottery games. Since its launch in 1994, the national lottery has been a tremendous success, raising more than £42 billion for good causes. Since 1994, its games portfolio has evolved significantly, while consumers have shifted towards online play and instant win games such as scratchcards. While evidence shows that most 16 and 17-year-olds do not experience gambling-related harm from playing the national lottery, some recent studies point to a possible correlation between national lottery play at 16 and 17 and problem gambling in later life. Moreover, few other countries allow 16 and 17-year-olds to purchase their national lottery products.

Protecting young people from the risk of gambling-related harm is of paramount importance. We have therefore decided to increase the minimum age of the sale of all national lottery games to the age of 18. We are keen to make this change at pace while being acutely aware of the need to give retailers and the operator time to ensure a smooth transition. The legislative change will therefore come into force in October 2021, but we have asked that, where it can be done sooner, it is—for example, online. So under current plans, national lottery sales to 16 and 17-year-olds will stop online in April 2021.

The review we are starting today will be an opportunity to look at the wider rules on children and gambling, and to make sure they are suitably protected across all forms of gambling. I know many colleagues will welcome the launch of this review today and will be pleased to see us living up to our commitments in the 2019 manifesto. We intend to be broad, thorough and evidence led, so that we can ensure our gambling laws are fit for purpose in the 2020s and beyond. I commend this statement to the House.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for early sight of his statement. On behalf of the Opposition, I welcome the main measures that the Government have announced today, and I certainly welcome the beginning of this process of review and reform. Many Members across the House and in the other place have worked very hard indeed to get us to this place. I will not mention individuals specifically, not least because I am sure they will speak for themselves shortly, but we owe them a debt for bringing this issue to the fore. I thank all of them, because when people work across the House and across party political barriers in pursuit of the public interest, it is Parliament at its best.

This is only the beginning of the process to get the reforms that we need on gambling, so it is disappointing that the Government have taken more than a year to launch this review, during which time we know there are still people who may be suffering. Gambling addiction is highly serious, and we know that we have not got the right support in place. So the delay has a cost, which is why we need to move forward together and swiftly now. What we need is fit-for-purpose regulation which can keep up with the changing nature of gambling online, both on the smartphones that we all carry and in the environment around us all the time. We believe that the law in this area should be approached from a public health perspective to protect the vulnerable and particularly children and young people—I think the Minister would accept that—but to allow others who choose to do so to gamble safely. The Minister mentioned that UK gambling legislation is some 15 years old and it is hard to quantify the technological change that we have all experienced during that time. If somebody had told me in 2005 precisely what the phone in my pocket would have the capacity to do by this point, even I would have been shocked. We need to bring the legislation up to date. There is not a moment to lose.

Millions of people enjoy gambling in a safe way, but, as I have said, given the speed of change, vulnerable people should be protected. Age verification must be taken seriously.

The pace of technological change has wider ramifications. Apps, games and online advertising within apps have shown the dangers when we are not able to future-proof legislation. Will the Minister confirm that the review will address not just problems that we know of now, but that we will use the opportunity to try to anticipate future changes? That will not always be possible, but we should at least attempt to do so.

In the review, we would like the Government to adopt the following approach, particularly in considering the legislation that we need. We know from the pandemic that public health must come first, and that is my first question to the Minister. Will he confirm that we will be taking a public health approach in the review?

Secondly, of course people are free to choose what they wish to do in a free country, but will the Minister confirm that the Government take their responsibility to protect people from harm seriously and that the review will attempt to quantify that harm so that we can target the right measures effectively to reduce it over time?

Thirdly, the legislation must be evidence-based. I do not think anyone in this House is any longer a sceptic of experts, but just to make sure, could the Minister confirm that public health experts will be able to contribute fully and transparently, so that people will be able to understand the evidence that the Government rest on?

Fourthly, all towns across the country should be able to enjoy the benefit of having a sports club at the heart of their community. Many rugby league clubs, football clubs and other sports have long-standing relationships with gambling companies. Will the Minister take those relationships into consideration? We are expecting another review—a fan-led review of football—and I do not think it makes a lot of sense to commence the gambling review without that football review alongside it. Where the issues interconnect, we can handle them both together. Will the Minister bring forward the fan-led review of football to start without further delay?

Finally, on consumer protection, companies operating for financial gain should not be able to exploit anybody, particularly the young and vulnerable, so will he make sure that consumers have better rights in this area? Will people have access to their own data—I am thinking of where people are targeted online with adverts and so on? Will the review also look at the unlicensed operators, who are one of the most worrying aspects in this area?

We welcome the review. We want to see it happen in a way that is collaborative across both sides of the House and among all stakeholders in the country, because that is the best way to make sure that it is a success. Many people in this country enjoy gambling. Everybody has the right to spend their own money enjoying themselves. However, where a harm is clear, the Government have a duty and responsibility to tackle it.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for the tone of her response and for welcoming the review. She is absolutely right that the measures in the review and the scope of the review have been supported by hon. Members on both sides of this Chamber and many individuals have campaigned on these issues for a long period of time.

On timing, it is important to recognise that we do not wait for the periodic reviews. We are not waiting for necessary future legislation. We have acted and will continue to act as and when necessary. Just this year, for example, we banned the use of gambling with credit cards. We have made further restrictions on VIP schemes. There is the mandatory participation in GamStop, for example, and the announcement today about the changes with national lottery is testament to the fact that the Government are willing and able to take action. There was also action just last year on fixed-odds betting terminals.

In terms of future-proofing, no Government can guarantee to future proof, but certainly the intent is for the scope to be broad and wide, recognising, for example, changes in technology and what that could mean for using information intelligently to identify potential problem gamblers, as well as looking at the scope of the Gambling Commission itself.

In terms of evidence, we are looking for evidence from all sources, including all those that the hon. Lady suggested—from health and from academics. We welcome the participation of anybody willing and able to participate in this review with evidence.

The hon. Lady made an important point on sport. As sports Minister—we both cover sport—I know the challenges that the sporting sector faces, so we need to make sure that any changes are proportionate. Indeed, as she knows, we intend formally to kick off the football governance review as soon as possible. Informally, it has already begun. Other areas such as redress and the black market will absolutely form part of the review.

[Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)]

No longer is gambling a case of just nipping down the bookies. We now live in a world dominated online with sophisticated algorithms and increasing artificial intelligence. Will the Minister assure the House and me that the review will place at its centre the oversight of algorithms in push marketing and fairness in bet exchanges, and that that will dovetail with robust age verification on social media platforms? In addition, when will we see the legislation to curb the menace of loot boxes? As a side point, on the banning of national lottery sales online, why do we have to wait until April next year? Surely, that is something that could be actioned relatively quickly.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee on Digital, Culture, Media and Sport for, as always, valuable comments. On using technology intelligently, I absolutely agree with him—it is vital that we do so to identify problem gambling and issues of affordability, and that that forms part of the future-proofing of the sector.

The loot-box issue is being addressed. We have issued a call for evidence, which concluded on 22 November, and we will introduce recommendations shortly. On the lottery changes, as I say, we have had conversations with key stakeholders. We want to move as soon as possible. The target date of 1 October is the latest date for changes. We want to bring the online changes forward as soon as possible, but there are notifications, technology changes and logistical considerations, as well as training considerations. It is not the kind of thing that can occur overnight, but we have had productive conversations with the operators to make sure that we can implement the measures as soon as possible.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) [V]]

I thank the Minister for prior sight of the statement. I welcome the overall messages in it, as they touch on many of the issues that have blighted the industry and caused great harm to many people for far too long. There is a great deal to discuss, and I shall keep a beady eye on the process and progress of the review.

In the time allotted to me, may I thank the Minister for making it clear that the evidence-led inquiry will include those who have been harmed and the families of those who have lost someone to suicide as a result of gambling addiction? Lived experience is crucial to inform the review. However, I am concerned that the Minister has caveated his concerns about advertising with the financial difficulties faced by sports organisations and broadcasters. The reduction of harm must be front and centre in the review, and must not be undermined by the eye-watering financial demands of premier-league football teams.

On the national lottery, there is no excuse for delaying the enforcement of the increased age limitation offline for 10 months. May I ask that the timescale is revisited or at least justified? I did not read anything in the statement about the voluntary levy. We need a statutory levy that funds research, education and support. That money should be paid to the UK and devolved Parliaments before being channelled to the appropriate service providers. Research into gambling harm must not be funded by voluntary contributions from the industry that causes the harm.

Finally, many people, including members of the all-party parliamentary group on gambling-related harm, will scrutinise the outcome of the review. May I offer a friendly warning to the Minister? We will not be fobbed off with a partial review, and we will not accept second-best.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I can confirm that the experience of those with lived experience will form part of the review. In fact, the Secretary of State and I have met many victims and their families, and we will continue to do so. On sport, if there is evidence of harm from sponsorship and advertising, we will act. On the other considerations that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, I can assure him that if people have evidence, for example, that a levy is an alternative model, we would welcome those submissions in the review. I welcome the scrutiny that he and others will give to the review as it progresses.

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his statement, which marks the beginning of a real sea change in our attitude towards the gambling abuses that have taken place. On that point, I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), whose chairing of the all-party parliamentary group on gambling related harm has been phenomenal, and to the vice chair, the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan). We have worked very hard together to try to drive this moment. I have to say to my hon. Friend the Minister that we want all the evidence we have taken over the last couple of years to be part of the inquiry. I would also like the all-party parliamentary group to appear in front of it.

May I press my hon. Friend on one particular point? He knows about the abuse of VIP schemes and about the behaviour of the gambling companies, which have been appalling in the way they have used people. Is it not now time, instead of looking only at the powers of the Gambling Commission, to get rid of the Gambling Commission altogether and institute a body as powerful as, say, Ofcom or all the other bodies that monitor and regulate these industries? Now is the time to make bold moves, to make sure we get proper control and that the abuses and the addiction end.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my right hon. Friend for all his work in this important area, and the people he mentioned who have also campaigned for such a long time. We know that there have been problems with VIP schemes. We have acted on them already, but that does not mean that further action is not necessary. I am confident that the evidence-led review may reveal further options and avenues. I welcome his input into all areas under consideration. As I said, the Gambling Commission’s scope and resources are part of that review. I welcome his further comments.

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

The architects of the Gambling Act 2005 could never have anticipated that by 2020 technology would allow phones, tablets and computers to become 24/7 limitless gambling hubs. For far too many, this has led to devastation, demoralisation and, at worst, death. Can the Government assure the House that the voices of bereaved families, those with lived experience, campaign groups and colleagues and friends from right across the House will be given the same consideration when feeding into this review as the well-resourced, confrontational and relentless gambling lobby, whose sole motivation is profit, not people?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for her ongoing campaign in this important area. We have had many conversations on this, and I know her passion for change. I can confirm that those with lived experience and the families of those impacted will absolutely play a key role in the review. We welcome their evidence. As has already been suggested, some evidence has been brought forward in various other reviews and reports that we have seen in the House, and we welcome re-submissions of some of that data. The role of those people is vital. We all know, through experiences and interactions with our constituents, how devastating problem gambling can be. I think the whole House recognises the need for further action.

[Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con)]

I associate myself with the comments of my hon. Friends from the all-party parliamentary group on gambling related harm. I also thank the Minister for his statement. I know that he has done a lot of work in this area. It is good to hear that the review will be broad and wide. However, can he clarify that, when he mentioned parity between high street and online, he is not saying that high-street casino gambling will be the same as online casinos? Quite frankly, there should be one place where the highest-stakes gambling can take place, and that is not in people’s homes and bedrooms.

I also urge my hon. Friend to reflect on the Public Accounts Committee’s report around an ombudsman service. Some points that we raised were recommendations from the Public Accounts Committee, particularly around redress for people who have suffered real harm, and are really worth noting. I hope he will take note of those considerations.

[Nigel Huddleston]

As I said, the role and scope of the Gambling Commission and other areas will be under consideration. The point about the land-based system versus the online world is that, as many have mentioned, the world has changed considerably, and we want to ensure that there is an even playing field in gambling. We need to make sure that all forms of gambling are as safe as they possibly can be. The goal of this review is to tackle harms as much as possible, but also to make sure that the legitimate gambling industry is on a safe footing for a sustainable future.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I welcome the statement, but the Minister will understand that the online harms Bill, when we get it, will have a crucial role to play in this area. Big tech firms are allowing unregulated black market gambling companies to promote on their websites, and they are advertising to the under-18s. What does he think about that, and what is he going to do about it?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman raises legitimate concerns about the black market—the unlicensed industry, which does exist. This will form part of the review. Part of it will include the scope, responsibilities, powers and resources of the Gambling Commission and regulatory bodies to deal with the black market. It is a very important issue.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con) [V]]

As with all Government reviews, sectors and people fear that Government do not take into account their concerns and often adopt a “do to” rather than a “do with” attitude. What discussions has my hon. Friend had with sporting bodies, particularly in horse-racing and football, on the financial implications that the review could have for their members?

[Nigel Huddleston]

We have had very few discussions so far about the specifics of this review because we are only announcing its scope and the call for evidence today. We certainly intend to have conversations about the possible impact of some of the potential options on the sports sector. I encourage all stakeholders, including all sports bodies, to contribute to the review in the call for evidence that we are announcing. We will be happy to have further discussions about this with my hon. Friend and others.

[Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)]

I welcome this review, and there is clearly a need for robust action. The Minister will be aware that there have been claims from the online gambling industry that regulation should be moderated or it risks driving gamblers to the black market. Does the Minister agree with the Gambling Commission that there is absolutely no evidence for this? Does he also agree that if we want to prevent the growth of the black market, regulation to prevent harm is the solution, not the cause?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman expresses some legitimate concerns. One of the great problems, of course, is that, by definition, it is almost impossible to assess the size, scope and scale of the black market, but where evidence does exist we will welcome it as part of this review. We do recognise the problem, and that is why we explicitly include the unlicensed market—the black market—in the review. We need more work and more information, and we need to decide what action needs to be taken to tackle it. It is a very serious issue.

[Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)]

I welcome this review and the opportunity it presents to update our regulations in the gambling and gaming sector. I know from my time in the industry that some firms have gone above and beyond in developing tools to help to prevent and identify problem gambling. I hope that this review will be an opportunity to formalise and spread best practice. As the Minister said, over 100,000 people are employed in the sector, including nearly 4,000 in north Staffordshire, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Stoke-on-Trent at my former employer, Bet365. Can my hon. Friend assure me, and them, that the review will look to strike a balance, acknowledging the enjoyment that millions of people from gambling in a responsible manner and how important it is that people are not driven to unlicensed operators where they would have neither basic consumer protection nor the regulatory supervision that we all want to see?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend is right to point out the dangers of the unlicensed market and to point out that gambling is a legitimate business in the UK, paying £3 billion in taxes and employing about 100,000 people. However, the industry itself acknowledges that harms can happen. It has played, and I expect it to continue to play, an important role in identifying harms and what we can do to minimise them. Its voice will be heard in this review, but we all have a shared goal of making sure that we do everything we can to minimise gambling harms.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

I understand that today there is perhaps a focus on some of the online gambling, but can I ask the Minister not to forget those communities, such as in Glasgow East, where digital exclusion is still a massive issue? In that vein, when are we going to confront the fact that many of these working-class communities where lottery ticket sales are higher do not actually see a lot of the funding follow through? In my experience, it tends to go to more middle class areas with professional fundraisers.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Again, the review is very broad in scope for exactly this purpose. Comments, information, data and evidence can be brought in to raise all these issues, and they will be looked at carefully.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I welcome this review and also the Minister’s determination that it should be evidence-based, consistent and balanced, but can I join my hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker) in reminding him of the enormous contribution that betting companies make to horse-racing? It is to the tune of about £350 million a year, which is a very large amount to that sport, even in ordinary times. At the moment, like other sports, it is going through very difficult times, and without that contribution horse-racing would not survive.

[Nigel Huddleston]

Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. Horse-racing is of course a vital industry in the UK. I can confirm that the levy on horse-racing is not actually due for review till 2021; it is not explicitly part of this review. However, on the role that gambling has and the link with sport, we recognise that there are some challenges, but also many upsides, and we will consider those as part of this review.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

Following my question in April, I welcome today’s news that the Government will extend the ban on under-18s gambling to the national lottery, but the Minister will be aware that the recent online ban on gambling with a credit card does not apply to the lottery. If a betting shop in Barnsley rightly does not accept gambling on a credit card, then why should it be allowed on the national lottery?

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady. I am well aware of her campaigning on this issue over a long period of time, and I thank her for that input. There is a difference between lottery-based games and other forms of gambling. There is evidence to suggest, for example, that the gambling harm is lower in the lottery than in other forms of gambling, and therefore there is a difference between the types. As I say, however, this move is an important one today, and I appreciate that she welcomes it.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Given that the recent Public Accounts Committee report on gambling regulation declared that the Gambling Commission

“do not know what impact they are having on problem gambling, or what measures would demonstrate whether regulation is working”,

will the Minister use the opportunity of the review to assess whether the Gambling Commission itself is fit for purpose, or needs to be replaced by a new body to provide the real leadership needed on the issue of gambling regulation?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I am aware of the comments made in the Public Accounts Committee report. I appreciate the work that it and, indeed, many others have done in providing input on this issue for a long period. As I have said, I do not wish to pre-empt any of the conclusions of the review. This is a call for evidence at this stage, and therefore recommendations and suggestions for future regulation will be welcome.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware of some the work I do on social media, and I am chair of the all-party parliamentary group on social media. One of the key areas where we are seeing huge increases in people taking up and partaking of gambling is through influencers. My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) asked a question about the online harms Bill, so I would like to understand from the Minister what work he is doing now on tackling influencers who are able to target particularly children and young people and try to encourage them to gamble. That really does need to be addressed long before this review is concluded.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government are considering action on the broader issue of online harms and the role that social media companies play in that. That work will be undertaken alongside this review, as well, and we will certainly work together. I will work with colleagues in the rest of the Department to make sure that we are very much aligned.

[Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con) [V]]

Some 200,000 customers used an unlicensed gambling operator last year, resulting in an estimated £1.4 billion in turnover. What discussions has my hon. Friend had with online platforms to tackle this black market in gambling?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Like several other Members, my hon. Friend raises the important issue of the black market. As I have said, that will be considered as part of the review. We welcome evidence and suggestions from all stakeholders, in helping to scope not only the size and scale of the black market, but what further actions could be taken to tackle it.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

We know that too many people have a problematic relationship with gambling, which has a really bad effect on their wellbeing and mental health, even leading to suicidal thoughts and feelings. I welcome the recognition of that in the Minister’s statement. How will the review consider that issue in the next period?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady will be aware that we work closely with the Department of Health and Social Care, which is working on clinics particularly relating to the treatment of gambling. Three are already up and running, and we have an ambition to open far more. The industry is contributing towards the financial costs of some of this treatment, as well as to research and education overall; we have a commitment over the next four years of £100 million. Of course, this review will be an opportunity to assess whether that model is appropriate or whether other alternatives should perhaps be considered.

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

It is estimated that 37 million people in the UK enjoy playing video games on a daily basis—this includes random content through loot boxes, which they use to enjoy their gameplay. Done right, free-to-play games with additional purchase elements can be a good model. So does the Minister agree with the Gambling Commission that where in-game items obtained via loot boxes are confined to those games and cannot be cashed out, they fall outside the Gambling Act 2005?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend makes the important point that, without wishing to be pedantic, there is often a debate about whether loot boxes and games of chance, or those where there is not a financial benefit at the end, are actually “gambling” or “gambling-like behaviours”. However we wish to define them, we are taking action. That is why it was important that we had the call for evidence on loot boxes, which was completed recently, and further action will be taken, on recommendations, by the Government.

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP) [V]]

Every year, the gambling industry spends £1.5 billion on advertising to encourage us all to gamble more, which is 25 times more than we spend giving help to people with a problem with their gambling and 80 times more than it is required to give to the Gambling Commission, which is supposed to regulate it. The commission will never be able to regulate the industry properly when it relies for its funding on these tiny scraps that fall from the industry’s table. Will the Minister therefore agree to look seriously at having the Gambling Commission adequately and directly funded from the public purse, so that it is independent and, more importantly, can be seen to be independent of the industry it is attempting to regulate?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The Gambling Commission and the Advertising Standards Authority both currently have a role in reviewing advertising relating to gambling, and they have significant powers. However, many legitimate concerns have been raised on this issue, so both the advertising and the scope and resources of the Gambling Commission will be part of this review.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister say that loot boxes fall within his remit of work at the moment, because they encourage people to spend more on in-game purchases than they otherwise would do if this were turned into a game of chance where there were no published odds. Will he also say something about social media targeted advertising by gambling companies? I am aware that social media companies are allowing online betting companies to target known problem gamblers with incentives to bet, which is completely unethical. It should be outside the rules and it should be part of the review.

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend is very knowledgeable about this area as well, and I thank him for his comments. Let me be clear: the call for evidence relating to loot boxes is separate from this review; it is a separate activity being undertaken by the Department. I should also be clear that any advertising that is deliberately targeting children or vulnerable groups should not be happening, and therefore it is a major concern. The questions raised in this review and the call for evidence seek to ask how effective the current rules are, and those will be major considerations as part of the call for evidence.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

Liberal Democrats welcome this review very much, as issues such as online gambling have needed to be addressed for some time. Given the impact of gambling and the damage it causes, and given that the work that needs to be done to rectify it stretches across a number of Departments, what consultations has the Minister had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Department of Health and Social Care and other Ministries about the review?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady will not be surprised to learn that DCMS constantly engages with the Treasury on a range of issues, and certainly the Department for Health and Social Care has a very strong interest. The Health Secretary—a former DCMS Secretary of State—is very knowledgeable about the gambling sector and the harms, and we are working closely on treatment. The Department of Health and Social Care is looking to expand the number of treatment centres, and we will continue that dialogue and work across the Departments.

[Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)]

I have several leading casinos in my constituency, and they have worked hard to deal with problem gambling. Does my hon. Friend agree that casinos are important for our international tourist economy?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. Casinos form an important part of the attractions. They are why many people come into the country, and they are important for in-bound tourism. I understand exactly what she is saying. Casinos play an important part, and the whole point of the review is to ensure a legitimate gambling industry that is on a sound footing for future growth. I look forward to working with the casino sector to ensure that that happens.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his statement about the review of the gambling industry, and I put on record my thanks to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for her leadership on the all-party group. Time is of the essence, so will the Minister assure the House that reform will happen quickly? Will reform happen outside the formal review, for example on loot boxes and the video games that others have referred to? Could such reforms be implemented with a faster time frame?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Northern Ireland regulation on gambling is separate from that of Great Britain. He raises an important point, and we will work with the devolved Administrations. Loot boxes fall under a separate review. The call for evidence has just ended, and we wish to consider the feedback from that as soon as possible. The other aspects that he raised will form part of that review. We completely understand the need for action, and as I said in my statement, we have taken action where necessary, with legislative and non-legislative measures from loot boxes to changing the rules on credit card use, as well as today’s announcement on the national lottery. We are willing and able to move quickly.

[Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)]

I fully welcome this review, which will surely protect my constituents in Redcar and Cleveland from gambling harm in the long term. However, the Minister will know—we have had a number of conversations about this—about the issues regarding the horse-race betting levy, and the urgent need for reform to support racecourses such as the one in Redcar. Will he update the House on any steps he has taken to fix that situation, so that Redcar can keep on racing?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I know what a horse-racing fan my hon. Friend is, and we have had many conversations about that issue. The horserace betting levy is not part of this review, but we are having ongoing conversations with the horse-racing industry. I look forward to further conversations with my hon. Friend.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

I broadly welcome today’s announcement, but given this Government’s unforgivable delay to the online harms Bill, many questions are left unanswered. It is vital that young people are protected in their online space, so what considerations have the Government made to include age verification requirements for gambling providers as part of the online harms agenda? When will the Bill finally be brought to Parliament?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The issues of age verification, product, and the way such things are marketed will be part of this review, and they are also ongoing considerations of the Gambling Commission. This will be a 16-week review. We recognise that in these challenging times of covid, responders may need a little more time to respond to the call for evidence, and therefore the review is slightly longer than normal. We will then produce a White Paper with Government recommendations. As I said, the review is deliberately broad, and the issues raised by the hon. Lady will be part of it.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

I am clear that online harms are increasing risks to our children, and I note that families have spent much of the past nine months in lockdown. As a parent, I am worried by addiction to games such as Fortnite, when our children could be outside playing. Will my hon. Friend confirm that his Department will consider an outright ban on gambling incentives such as loot boxes, as well as better educating parents, carers and teachers about the dangers of online gaming?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The issues around loot boxes that my hon. Friend articulates are legitimate; hence the call for evidence on loot boxes. That call for evidence ended on 22 November. The Government are currently considering the evidence that has been brought forward, and we will respond in due course. My hon. Friend raises legitimate concerns that have been raised by the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee and many others over many years.

[Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op)]

The bookies form a key part of our high streets and provide a supervised environment for responsible gambling. In contrast, the online gambling space is like the wild west. We have heard so much about black market operators that have caused extraordinary levels of harm, so it is right the Government are looking at this issue. However, that will only be effective alongside good online harms legislation, which we have been promised for three years now. When will we see it?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that the online harms legislation was a commitment. It is absolutely a commitment. I know that it gets support on both sides of the Chamber, and we will be hearing more in due course.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s statement as a vital step in bringing up to date the provisions of the Gambling Act 2005, but may I ask him for some reassurance about how any test of balance will be weighted so that prevention of harm can rightly take centre stage, while we ensure at the same time that the millions of people who gamble responsibly are not in some way stigmatised, and, as others have said, that activities are not driven underground?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for pointing out the absolute necessity in this review for a balanced, evidence-led approach. I assure him that we will strike the right balance between giving individuals the freedom to choose how they spend their own money, and protecting vulnerable people and their families from gambling-related harm. It is a balancing act, and we take that responsibility very seriously.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

Last year, the vice president of EA described loot boxes as “ethical”, “fun” and akin to buying “Kinder eggs”. However, research has linked some loot boxes with problem gambling in older adolescents, so we clearly need to take action. I hear what the Minister is saying about the call for evidence just finishing and that that is part of a separate review, but how will that review feed into this wider review of the Gambling Act overall?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Yes, I can confirm that the call for evidence has concluded, and we will be responding to that soon. Legal definitions were one of the reasons that it was a separate review from the one on gambling, but that should aid the process, rather than hinder it.

[Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con)]

I warmly welcome this review and today’s announcement. As the Minister has said, the way that people gamble in 2020 is completely different from how the majority of gambling took place when the Gambling Act was passed in 2005. Does the Minister agree that, in line with these changes, the Government should be considering boosting the powers and resources of the Gambling Commission to ensure that it can keep pace with the licence sector and tackle the black market?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Indeed; the scope, roles, responsibilities and resources of the Gambling Commission will form part of the review. It is right that we consider the structure of governance and regulation for the industry, and any recommendations and suggestions that my hon. Friend has would be welcome as part of the call for evidence.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome the review. However, it is believed that, in the UK alone, members of the armed forces are eight times more likely to develop gambling addictions, especially if they have experienced past traumatic events. Given this distressing statistic, will the Minister confirm whether he has had any discussions with Defence Ministers about measures to prevent the spread of problem gambling among our armed forces personnel?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that certain demographics and roles are more susceptible to problem gambling than others. I have not had specific conversations with the Ministry of Defence yet, but we would welcome input on this issue as part of the evidence process. She raises the important point that different segments of the population are impacted and targeted differently, and the scope of this review includes looking at targeting and the prevalence of gambling among different demographics.

[Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con)]

I fully appreciate that the focus of this review will be on the technological advances in recent years, but I still have major concerns about the number of gaming centres and venues for gambling in Peterborough, particularly in the Millfield area of my city, and the subsequent risk of gambling-related harm to some of the most vulnerable local people. I welcome this review, but will my hon. Friend consider giving local councils such as Peterborough City Council further powers to close problem high street gambling venues and restrict the number of venues in any one particular area?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. There are already regulations and rules if there are problems, and social and behavioural challenges, in terms of the powers that local government has. He raises important points, though; as I said, in terms of responsible gambling across the board, we intend to ensure that this review is evidence-led and looks at a whole variety of issues, including the ones he raises.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I very much welcome this review. As the statement has exposed, a huge breadth of issues need to be considered. Will the Minister say something about the extent to which the amount of gambling that now takes place online creates opportunities to gain much better information about who is gambling and for ensuring that issues that are raised by the review are targeted at those who are problem gamblers? Will he ensure that that information is more widely available?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman makes a really important point. Just last year, for the first time, gross gambling yield was greater online than offline, so we have now reached that cusp where more gambling in the UK is online. We should therefore be able to use technology, and emerging technology, in a far more sophisticated way, as he suggests, to make sure that we identify problem gambling and potential problem gambling. I would expect information on that to be part of this review.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab) [V]]

In my experience, in the past the gambling industry has been able to exert a great deal of influence over the Minister’s Department. I welcome his commitment to an evidence-based review, but if the review is to be effective, it will need access to data from the industry and to up-to-date research. Will he commit to ensuring that this wealthy industry pays for fully independent research to be carried out, which we are all going to need if we are going to carry out this review effectively?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the historically poor level of information, data and research in this sector. It is improving, and we hope that this evidence-led review will add to the base of information. His characterisation of the Department, though, is wrong, as evidenced by the obvious and significant changes we have made to gambling over the last few years, with FOBTs last year, the changes to credit cards, VIP schemes, mandatory participation in GAMSTOP and the changes that we are announcing to the national lottery today, as well as a whole host of other issues. This Government have shown that we are willing to act when necessary.

[Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)]

I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s statement. Clearly, having consumer protection at the heart of any new regulation is key, so will he describe what sort of action my constituents in Dudley North can take if they believe that an operator is in breach of social responsibility requirements?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for those comments. He is absolutely right that legitimate concerns have been raised by many, including in this place, about redress in the gambling sector. That is why the call for evidence will specifically ask for information and evidence on potential future redress procedures, and all options are open at the moment.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

If I may, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to take my first opportunity in the Chamber to pay tribute to one of my predecessors, Maria Fyfe, who served in this place as Member for Glasgow Maryhill between 1987 and 2001 and who sadly passed away on Friday. She was hugely respected during her time in this House and in the constituency, and our condolences, thoughts and prayers are with her family, friends and comrades at this time.

One of Maria Fyfe’s enduring legacies is the Community Central Hall on Maryhill Road, which is an incredibly important focal point, providing a wide range of services for local residents. Over the years—many years—it has benefited from lottery funding. What steps will the Minister take to ensure, especially in these difficult times and in the context of the announcement that he has made today, that such organisations are able to continue to get the funding they need, whether through the lottery or perhaps other, more sustainable sources?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I join the hon. Gentleman in paying tribute to Maria Fyfe on behalf of the whole House; I know I can do so because the shadow Minister and I had a conversation about Maria before we came into the Chamber. She is a great loss. I know she was an incredible champion for women’s rights in particular and made a great impact on the British political landscape.

In terms of the lottery and the changes we are announcing today, the estimate is that the impact of 16 and 17-year-olds’ not being able to play the lottery will likely be something in the region of a £6 million potential loss to good causes. That is out of a total distribution of around £1.8 billion, so it is a relatively small amount.

I would like to say thank you to all those who have played the lottery and continued to play the lottery this year. Lottery revenue, and therefore distributions to good causes, has stayed up remarkably well, partly because it has been made very clear that much of the money has gone to institutions, bodies and groups in desperate need during coronavirus. I encourage people to continue to play the lottery safely, in the full knowledge that the money is well spent and well targeted.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

May I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) and the Minister, Nigel Huddleston, for their kind words about the late Maria Fyfe? She was a popular Member, who was well respected in all parts of the House and remained active in her local party after leaving this place. She will be missed by her family and all who knew her in Parliament and beyond. One of the best features of this place is how hon. Members appreciate and acknowledge the qualities and achievements of their predecessors, irrespective and regardless of party.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con) [V]]

I hope the review will recognise the important role that high street gambling venues play in employing local people, and the Minister will recognise that it would be rather strange if the review had the damaging impact of moving gamblers from the relatively safe, supervised gambling premises on the high streets into the unregulated, unsupervised online world. I hope the review will look to bolster gambling on the high street, rather than on the internet.

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point out that many gambling entities take their responsibilities for safe gambling incredibly seriously and do a very good job. It is important, therefore, that we strike the right balance between enabling people to gamble safely and protecting those who are at risk. There is nothing wrong with legitimate gambling that is well regulated and enacted in accordance with minimising harm.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

We all know that the gambling industry got it very wrong on the campaign on fixed-odds betting terminals. Does the Minister agree that this review is an opportunity for the British gambling industry to get it right and produce an outcome that maximises the fun for people who want to gamble, but minimises the harm? We all know that prohibition does not work; what we need is effective reform.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman, who I know is well versed in the industry and is very knowledgeable, is absolutely right. We must get the right balance here, and we expect the stakeholders, the key gambling operators, to play a role in providing evidence in this review. They have contributed already and made some voluntary changes, but I think we would all like to see further changes. They can make those voluntarily; there is always the option of legal regulation at the end of this review, but we do not necessarily need to wait for legislation for the gambling industry to do the right thing. We have seen some positive moves in the right direction and I welcome that constructive contribution. If we need to regulate and implement laws we will, but I would also like to see further changes voluntarily conducted by the industry, as I am sure he would too.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Last but never least, Simon Fell.

[Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)]

Thank you for battling to the end of the call list, Mr Deputy Speaker; I appreciate it. I warmly welcome this statement. A few months ago, I met Furness Gamblers Anonymous, which does incredible work to support those who suffer most from addiction. I welcome the fact that such organisations will be able to feed into this review—that is right and proper—but what consideration has my hon. Friend given to the fact that many of those who have the most powerful stories might want to feed in anonymously?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend makes a really important point. I have a great deal of confidence that many of the charities and third-party organisations working in this sector—many of the key stakeholders—are very articulate and knowledgeable, and they have done a very good job of feeding in information already. We encourage them to do so, and I hope they will be able to provide further information, while recognising that some of this is extremely sensitive and therefore may need to be confidential. We recognise that information from all sources is valid, and I encourage all stakeholders to do what they can to get involved in the review.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the Minister for his statement and for responding to 39 questions for exactly one hour. We will now suspend for a few minutes.

Football Governance

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Fovargue. Hopefully, I got the pronunciation broadly correct—perhaps it is easier to say Madam Chairman. I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford)—hopefully I got that correct as well—for introducing the debate, and for the contributions that he and other hon. Members have made on what is broadly a consensual, cross-party matter, as the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) just articulated. Of course, everybody today, as always in these debates, has spoken with great passion and great knowledge, reflecting how important this issue is right across the country to all of our constituents.

Football is of course our national game. It is a vital part of many of our lives, from playing the game in our local parks to watching our favourite teams on the terraces. However, it is not just on the pitch but off the pitch that football plays such an important role. The incredible work, as the hon. Lady and others mentioned, that football clubs have done during the pandemic has demonstrated that importance once again. From turning their car parks into NHS testing centres through to delivering food packages to the vulnerable, they hold a very special place in our local communities. It is vital that they are protected, as my hon. Friends the Members for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), for Bury North (James Daly) and for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) mentioned. Indeed, everybody mentioned the importance of these clubs in our local communities.

Many football clubs have benefited from the Government’s support packages over the past few months in this incredibly difficult period. The Treasury estimates that around £1.5 billion of public funds has gone into sport since the beginning of the pandemic. As well as the £300 million sports winter survival package that we announced last week, over £200 million from Sport England has gone into grassroots sport, and additional money has gone into various other schemes, such as furlough, grants and reliefs over a period of many months.

However, I do not underestimate how many sports clubs, including football clubs—even some in the highest tiers—are still in incredibly tight financial circumstances. Of course, we have worked closely with football throughout the pandemic, getting it back behind closed doors and getting live premier league matches on the BBC for the first time. The premier league is, as the hon. Member for Eltham and others mentioned, one of our most important soft power assets. It is the most watched and supported football league in the world. English clubs have been some of the most successful in the game, and I hope that continues.

However, that success is built on the strength of the entire football pyramid. Just look at the 49 different clubs that have played in the premier league since its inception in 1992. Everybody will be aware, as has been mentioned several times, that the Premier League and the EFL are currently in discussions about a support package. I am pleased that the Premier League has made it clear that it will not let any EFL club fail due to the pandemic—something that I hope the hon. Member for Coventry South (Zarah Sultana) particularly notes. I have had assurances, including just this morning, that significant progress is being made on an agreement for a financial support package for EFL clubs. While Premier League and EFL executives are in close and regular contact, ultimately it will be up to the individual clubs to approve any deal. I encourage and appeal to them to play their part, because ensuring that a support deal is in place is vital for English football.

A crucial step toward sports recovery is the return of fans, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bury South mentioned. I was therefore delighted that we were able to announce on Monday the return of spectators in tiers 1 and 2 from 2 December, with capacity limits and social distancing.

[Christian Wakeford]

Although I welcome the announcement on tiers 1 and 2, areas such as mine are anticipating going into tier 3, with further easements planned for household bubbles over Christmas. Will the Minister ensure that football can come home for Christmas, and make sure that the good, long-standing tradition of a Boxing Day derby can continue?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Everybody wants to make sure that football can come back in as many places as possible; my hon. Friend and others have made similar appeals. We are all waiting to find out the tiering system over the next few days, and the implications then for each of our regions, but the intent is to open as much as possible. I look forward to receiving another letter from the hon. Member for Wirral South, and I shall be happy to respond to her. We have regular correspondence, formally and informally, and I think it is good for sport that we have this open communication. I have no problem with her asking questions, and I will do my best to answer them as fully as I can.

[Damian Collins]

I think we are all pleased to hear the Government say that there are conditions under which fans can come back, but does the Minister agree that it could be unfair for clubs that do not have their fans in the background to compete against those that do, particularly when those clubs are in a very distressed financial position? What financial compensation will be available to clubs that may play most of the season without any fans in their grounds at all?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend makes a fair point, but we do need to start taking these baby steps toward opening as much of the economy, and of course football and sport, as possible. Logic would dictate that if we cannot open everything everywhere, then we should not open at all. Of course, we need to open as much as possible where we can, and support measures were announced last week for the national league. Fans have been able to attend non-elite sport for some time; we have allowed fans in stadiums and that will continue. On the elite side, I think as much as possible is absolutely key.

The deal between the EFL and the Premier League will be an important part of the dynamics of financial support. Nobody knows exactly where will be open when, or to what extent it will help with the financial circumstances, but I hope and have confidence that those elements and considerations will be part of the support package determined by the EFL and the Premier League; it must have some element of dynamism in that.

Another vital step is the resumption of grassroots sport from 2 December across all tiers, including the highest risk areas with some mitigation. Grassroots sport will return, and this will benefit the health and wellbeing of people right across the country. Further guidance on this will be published shortly.

While the pandemic has exacerbated some of the issues within football, it has not created them. Several hon. Members have expressed frustration about the groundhog day element to the discussion we are having today. It is absolutely clear that reform is needed in the national game, and has been needed for some time. That is why the Government are committed to a fan-led review of football governance. I will come to the question asked by the hon. Member for Wirral South in a moment.

The pandemic has highlighted the problems of football governance and finance—I have said repeatedly that the two are intrinsically linked. We cannot divorce governance from the finances, and I can confirm that we will look into this relationship as part of the governance review. The Secretary of State and I started this conversation last week, when we hosted a roundtable of key football stakeholders to discuss the future of the game. That discussion was lively and constructive, and it raised a number of ideas. Informally, therefore, the review of governance has already started, and this debate is contributing to it. We will announce the formal governance review in due course, but we certainly have no intention of kicking it into the long grass.

[Alison McGovern]

Is the Minister therefore able to put the review’s terms of reference into the public domain?

[Nigel Huddleston]

When we determine the terms of reference and the actual scope, we will obviously let the House know; it is vital that we do so. At this moment in time, we are considering all options and ideas. Many entities have come forward with suggestions that have good and bad elements and strengths and weaknesses, but it is important that we keep an open mind. I will certainly ensure that I am open to any constructive ideas as I go into the review. We will be working on the scoping, timing and remit of the review, and we will announce that in due course. I am well aware of the huge interest in it. As the hon. Lady said, all parties are keen to support it.

[Clive Efford]

In the review that the Minister talks about, where does the strategic review that has been announced by the Premier League sit? It said that it is going to be drafted by its executive and voted on by the 20 member clubs. Has the Minister seen the terms of reference for that review, and does it cut across these discussions?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Of course, the strategic review of the Premier League, which is a separate private entity—it is not an arms-length body—is rightly and justifiably entirely down to it. Its ideas and suggestions, and whatever the outcome of that review is, will be of great interest to me and the Government, but it is separate from the grassroots review of governance that we committed to in our manifesto and that others support. It is down to it to determine the scope of the review. I understand that it will be consulting with the English Football League. I absolutely commit that our review will involve and engage the Premier League, the EFL and many other stakeholders. The precise scope of that review is entirely down to the Premier League, and it is right that it does that.

At the roundtable last week, I was particularly keen to hear the thoughts of the Football Supporters Association, with which I have had constructive conversations. It is crucial that any reforms to the game have the backing of the fans, who, after all, are the lifeblood of the sport. It is interesting that Project Big Picture did not have the support of the Football Supporters Association, although, as I said earlier, I recognise that any proposals coming forward will have strengths and weaknesses.

In 2016, the Government set up an expert working group on football supporter ownership and engagement, which led to some great improvements in club engagement with fans, and the Premier League and EFL now require clubs to meet supporters at least twice a year to discuss strategic issues, giving fans the opportunity to shape the direction of the club. I am well aware that this is a great passion of the hon. Member for Eltham. He has contributed to the debate over many years and campaigned for greater involvement and engagement of fans. Of course, there is still a lot more to do, and that will form an essential part of the governance review.

[Damian Collins]

I appreciate that my hon. Friend says that the full terms and conditions of the review are yet to be agreed, but if the fan-led review recommends an independent regulator, will the Government give proper consideration to that recommendation?

[Nigel Huddleston]

It is very important that I do not predetermine the outcome of the review, but all reasonable and sensible ideas are welcome, as I have said. I would not like to say that we will look favourably or unfavourably at any individual component part at the moment, because that would be pre-empting the outcomes of the review, and of course circumstances could change things.

[Damian Collins]

I will phrase it slightly differently. What I want to know is whether the idea of an independent regulator outside the scope of the fan-led review, or are fans free to submit ideas about that to which the Government will at some point respond?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend will forgive me for not pre-announcing, before we have it written anything down, the scope of the review or the outcome of it. What I can say is that I am personally very keen to make sure the scope of the review is broad. Any sensible, viable and reasonable ideas will be welcome. I know that is a somewhat obscure caveat, but we all know that some proposals can be unrealistic or bizarre. I suspect that any realistic and sensible proposal, looking at models that are deployed and adopted by other countries, for example, will form part of the review. I am coming into the review with a very open mind, as is the Secretary of State. I can assure my hon. Friend of that, but he will forgive me if I cannot really be pressed any further on the scope of the review before it is announced. I am well aware of the strength of feeling and the enthusiasm across the House to make sure that we get the scope determined as soon as possible.

[Alison McGovern]

I thank the Minister for his tolerance. Just to give those who are following this debate closely an idea on the terms of reference, the scope and the important issues that have just been mentioned by the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), are we thinking of a month, two months, or after Christmas? Can the Minister give us an idea?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I sincerely appreciate and understand the hon. Lady’s persistence in this matter, but I have to say that we will be announcing the scope of the review in due course. She knows as well as anybody else the enthusiasm in this House for getting that review going as soon as possible.

On the issue of women’s football, which has been brought to the front during the coronavirus situation, there are many other long-term issues facing the game as well as governance. The roundtable that we had last week had a real focus on women’s football and tackling discrimination. The pandemic has shone a light on inequalities in football and, indeed, many other sports. The women’s game had built up significant momentum over the past few years, with both participation and interest growing rapidly, and the England Lionesses are inspiring a generation of girls, and indeed boys, including with their superb run-up to the World cup semi-finals last year. It is crucial that that momentum is not lost.

The women’s game must be central to any discussion on the future of the sport, and I was therefore glad that representatives of women’s football were able to attend the football roundtable we held last week, including Baroness Sue Campbell, the FA’s director of women’s football. I have also had a follow-up conversation with her and look forward to many further conversations. This week I am also meeting with Jane Purdon, the chief executive of Women in Football, to examine the issues facing the women’s game further.

Another issue that sadly remains to the detriment of the game is discrimination. There is still much progress to be made to improve diversity within football. I welcomed the announcement of the FA’s new football leadership diversity code last month, which is a step in the right direction to improve diversity and inclusion in both the men’s and women’s games. From the pitch to the boardroom, football must be welcoming and inclusive for all people from all backgrounds.

Sadly, players are still receiving abhorrent abuse online. I am absolutely clear that players should not be suffering from such abuse, and this Government are committed to taking action to tackle it. As set out in the online harms White Paper, we intend to establish a new law with a duty of care on social media companies towards their users, which will be overseen by an independent regulator. However, there is still a lot more to be done to rid football and society of this scourge. I welcome the football authorities’ commitment to tackling these issues at the roundtable and in other conversations, and will continue to work with them to deliver further action.

Very briefly, I will answer a couple of other points and then make sure the hon. Member for Eltham has plenty of time to make further comments. On the point raised about Project Big Picture, the Government’s response was that the timing was not right. We have said all along that any proposals coming up from football at the moment, if they are to be adopted by football, quite clearly and transparently need the support of the entire family—an issue that my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe raised and that I will come to in a moment. The Football Supporters Association did not support that proposal, which I think was a great failing. However, all proposals have strengths and weaknesses, and we are open to many ideas. My hon. Friend raised an important point about the great challenges of the dynamics of football—whether we call it the football pyramid or the football family—and I think we all recognise that, while it is a family, or has elements of being a family, it is certainly a very dysfunctional one, as he articulated very clearly, hence the need for a significant review of governance.

The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) mentioned facilities. Of course, it is also a medium and long-term goal of the Government to significantly improve facilities, and not only for football but for many other sports across the country. I will take this opportunity to highlight the fact that Sport England has funds available to help enhance facilities; in fact, there is a live fund available at the moment, the Return to Play fund, to help with sports facilities, and I encourage grassroots clubs across the country to apply to it. It is relatively small amount, but, boy, will it make a difference.

My hon. Friends the Members for Bury North and for Bury South raised the particular circumstances in Bury, of which I am aware—we have had many regular conversations. They have asked for Government support. As well as rich tea and sympathy and enthusiastic support for Bury FC to sort its difficulties out, there are areas for potential Government support, but it would have to be in the remit of a broader offering. That could be a sport offering, in which we could get Sport England involved, or part of potential funds towards broader community development, recognising the important role that the club plays in the community, as my hon. Friends mentioned. I am well aware of the challenges faced by Bury FC at the moment, and I hope and have confidence that project phoenix will arise from the ashes. Bury deserves a very positive future.

My opposite number, the hon. Member for Wirral South, raised many points. She did not give me a full list, but I look forward to her letter and to further dialogue. I am very grateful for today’s wide-ranging debate. The Government have started the conversation on the important issues facing the future of football. Many Members have contributed to that discussion, and I am very appreciative of that. We remain absolutely committed to driving progress and will continue to work closely with all stakeholders in football to ensure a stable and strong future for our national game.

Covid-19: Restrictions on Gyms and Sport

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) for leading this important debate, to the hundreds of thousands of people—nearly 1 million—who have signed the petitions, and to the hon. Members who have spoken so eloquently today, and with whom I have had many conversations over the past few weeks and months.

It is worth noting that since the debate was scheduled, we have entered a four-week period of national measures, which means that almost all businesses, including gyms and leisure centres, have had to close their doors to the public. As all hon. Members present are aware, the national lockdown, with its vital purpose of protecting our NHS and saving lives, will last until 2 December.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced in the main Chamber earlier—in fact, I think he is still on his feet—organised grassroots sport will be allowed to resume from 2 December. There will be some restrictions on higher-risk activities in very high alert level areas, and on indoor adult sports, but this is a good day for sports. Gyms and leisure centres will be allowed to reopen in all tiers. As ever, we expect social distancing and the requirements for heightened hygiene to remain in place. More detail will be available on the announcement in the coming days.

The importance of sport and physical activity for the nation’s physical and mental health has never been more apparent, as many hon. Members have mentioned. Sport can be one of the most powerful defences against the covid-19 pandemic, and we will need raised levels of fitness among the population as we prepare to return to our normal lives, now that an effective vaccination programme looks imminent.

As we have said before, nobody, including me as Sports Minister, wanted to introduce further national restrictions, or restrictions on sport. However, as the Prime Minister said when introducing the second lockdown, with the virus spreading faster than expected, we could not allow our health system to be overwhelmed. We introduced very serious lockdown measures; there was no question of making exceptions. We needed to go into lockdown and allow people out for only a very strict and limited number of reasons, including going out to exercise, albeit not necessarily the exercise that everybody would personally desire.

The national restrictions are designed to get the R rate under control through limiting social contact and reducing transmission. For the measures to have the greatest impact, we all need to sacrifice, for a short period, doing some of the things that we would like to do. As the Prime Minister announced today, it will be for a short period; after 2 December, we can go back to some of those activities.

Unlike in the previous lockdown, sport is still taking place behind closed doors. At schools, which are still open—I have spoken, and speak regularly, to the Schools Minister—PE lessons are able to take place. Exercise can be done with one other person; that recognises that we are in winter, and many people, for safety and other reasons, wish to exercise with another person outside their household.

Sport has been and will continue to be a priority. Even during peak lockdown in March, in this country, unlike in many others, exercise was still an absolute priority and could be taken by everybody. That was not the case everywhere around the world, and it shows how important sport and physical activity are to the UK.

There have been many calls, from many sports representatives and the public, for exemptions to the current restrictions, some of them giving highly plausible reasons why their sport should be exempt. I heard many of those arguments again today, and of course the petitions are good examples. I have heard the arguments for gyms, golf, tennis, swimming, basketball, children’s football, parkrun, cricket, rowing and many other sports. That exemplifies why we have had the problem and the issues that we are facing. As I am sure hon. Members will understand, the difficulty is that when we unpick one thing, the effectiveness of the whole package of restrictions is compromised. When we keep taking individual bricks out, the whole wall falls down. Instead of there being one exemption for one person to conduct their preferred activity, all of sudden there are tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of potential additional interactions—the very thing that we wanted to avoid.

The focus had to be on minimising the number of potentially risky interactions. That is not to say that any individual sport is high risk—quite the contrary. If we thought that, we would never have allowed them to take place. The point, as many have mentioned, is that there is a very small risk of the infection spreading in each of those interactions. We therefore had to take action, and the Prime Minister was very clear that there should be no exemptions, for clarity, and to ensure that everybody understood that this is a deadly serious lockdown.

Unfortunately, that meant that everybody had to make compromises. I know that closing these facilities was incredibly inconvenient, compromised people’s health and was very upsetting and disturbing, but there is no doubt that the restrictions that we have all had to live under for the past few weeks, and for the next week or so, will have saved lives, so that inconvenience, I think, was worth it.

[Chris Green]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. Many people have asked for the data. I think I have articulated that the point is the possibility of there being a risk. As the chief medical officers and others have said, there is always a risk with any social interaction. We saw death rates go from a dozen or so a day in August to dozens a day—in fact, there are now more than 500. That is the evidence. That is why we had to take significant action.

I have always said, though, that as soon as it is possible to start lifting restrictions, grassroots sport will be among the first things to return. That has been confirmed by the Prime Minister today, as promised. I pay tribute to all the hard work carried out by sports’ governing bodies and clubs across the country to ensure that we were ready for the return of sport—from gyms, leisure centres and pools, to rowing and badminton clubs.

[Maria Eagle]

Does that imply that if there is a further national lockdown in the new year, gyms will all have to close again?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady raises an important point, but let us be “glass half full”, rather than “glass half empty” on this issue. We are at the point at which we are reopening sport. She and everybody knows that we have to respond to circumstances; it is ridiculous to ask a Minister to come to the Dispatch Box and make promises based on future hypothetical scenarios. We will base decisions on the information at the time, but we are now in a pattern. We have the vaccination coming. I am very confident that we are looking to a much more positive future, and that is what the Government will be focused on.

I pay tribute to the hard work and effort of so many sports bodies and clubs that have made their facilities as safe as possible and minimised the risk. It has involved a huge amount of work for them at not inconsiderable cost to ensure that social distancing, improved hygiene and other measures have been implemented to increase safety and lower the risk to their members and, indeed, their staff. I thank all those who have played their part, many of whom volunteered to go the extra mile for the work that has got us this far.

[Alison McGovern]

This is a simple question. The Minister thanks sports groups for their work, and I agree with him. If we have future lockdowns, either the work done to make sports covid-safe is good enough that they will not be included, or they will need to prepare to be included if there is a future lockdown. Which is it?

[Nigel Huddleston]

What everybody is going through at the moment—the sacrifices everybody is making—is precisely to reduce the chances of a future lockdown. I appreciate the work that everybody is doing.

The return of golf has had a tremendous amount of support from the public, as seen by over 250,000 people signing one of the petitions that led to the debate. Golf has great reach across society for all ages, backgrounds and abilities, bringing people together to experience the great outdoors. Like gyms, leisure centres and pools, the golfing community has made strenuous efforts to ensure that its players can take part safely. Once again, I pay tribute to its shared efforts. I say to the hon. Lady that every piece of effort and energy that has gone into making grounds and sports facilities safe has been well worth it. That is exactly why we have been able to make the progress we have so far. The Government recognised those efforts and the importance of golf by ensuring that golf courses were among the first facilities to reopen following the lockdown in the spring.

Sports and physical facilities are at the heart of our communities and play a crucial role in supporting adults and children to be active. The Government have provided unprecedented support to businesses through tax reliefs, cash grants and employee wage support, which many sports clubs have benefited from. However, many leisure centres have faced acute challenges during the pandemic, which is why on 27 October the Government announced a £100 million support fund for leisure centres affected by the pandemic, which many hon. Members have mentioned today. My Department is currently working closely with Sport England and MHCLG on the design of that scheme. Further details will be released shortly. Once the funds are open, I urge local authorities to bid for the money. I hope that people will make the most of these precious local facilities once they are open again.

That funding is all on top of what DCMS’s arm’s length body Sport England has already provided, which has comprised over £220 million directly to support the sport and physical activity sector, with £35 million set aside as a community emergency fund for our very important sports clubs and exercise centres through the pandemic. We continue to work with organisations to understand what they need and how we may be able to support them into the future when restrictions are lifted.

I am in regular dialogue with representatives from sports’ governing bodies, member bodies and providers of leisure facilities and gyms through the DCMS-hosted sports working group, which provides a forum for representatives from the sports sector to discuss the impact of the pandemic on the sector and allows members to put questions and suggestions directly to me and the Department. I am grateful to all those involved for their continued advice and support.

I thank hon. Members for their contributions and interest in helping to get sport and physical activity up and running again. I look forward to further increasing our efforts, particularly with the increasingly good news about vaccines. People from all backgrounds and of all levels of ability should have the opportunity to play sports and keep active, and that is a commitment of this Government.

Sport Sector: Financial Support

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

For millions of people up and down the country, sport is so much more than a pastime. Sports clubs, large and small, enrich lives both on and off the pitches, the courts and the grounds, and they play a vital role in their communities. The value that sports clubs bring to their communities has been clearer than ever during this pandemic, and it is right that we support them.

Earlier this year, in May, we announced a £16 million emergency bail-out for rugby league to prevent the sport’s collapse, and the Treasury’s multi-billion-pound support packages, including the furlough and loan schemes, have been a lifeline for countless sports clubs and organisations across the country, helping them to stay afloat when their doors remained closed. Sport England has announced separate emergency funding of £220 million for grassroots clubs, and we recently announced a £100 million scheme for leisure centres. Together, that support has acted as a significant buffer to the pain.

However, we know that the decision taken in late September not to re-open the stadiums from 1 October has had major consequences for sports clubs large and small. It was the right decision, given the rate at which coronavirus was spreading across the country, but clearly, not being able to generate gate receipts deprives many organisations of a major source of income. The vast majority of those sports operate on tight financial margins and have been forced to make serious cost reductions such as locking down grounds, furloughing their staff, cutting wages, and halting excess payment. It was clear that if we did not act, a number of clubs would go to the wall, with real consequences for the grassroots game. That is why, over the past few weeks, we have been working tirelessly with the sports sector to understand the real pressures it is facing.

We promised to stand by the sports sector when we made the decision to postpone the return of fans, and today I am pleased to announce a £300 million sports winter survival package to see major spectator sports through this difficult period. The majority of that funding will be given through low-interest loans, with flexible repayment terms and grants where organisations are unable to repay loans. The package will focus on those sports that have been severely impacted by the restrictions announced in September, and it is the largest package announced by any Government for its domestic sport sector in the world.

I stress that these are provisional allocations of funding. They were made on a needs-based assessment process, and reflect the submissions made by the individual sports. Recipients will still need to apply, and the funding process will be overseen by an independent decision-making board, and supported by Sport England. That funding will include a top-up for rugby league of up to £12 million, as well as cash injections of up to £28 million for national league football and women’s football, up to £135 million for rugby union, and up to £40 million for horseracing. There is also up to £6 million for motorsport, up to £4 million each for netball, basketball, and ice hockey, up to £1 million for greyhound racing, up to £5 million for tennis, and up to £1.6 million for badminton.

Today’s provisional allocations are not the end of the story. The door is open for any sport to apply where there is a need. That includes cricket and other sports that are not on the initial list of allocations. Full details of the application process will shortly be announced by Sport England, with the first tranche of support expected to be distributed to clubs and bodies before the end of the year. In the meantime, if any individual club is facing imminent collapse, we will work with it through its national governing body. Based on the information that sports have given us, this package will help them to survive until the spring.

Of course, we would all prefer to see fans back in the stadiums. Spectator sports need spectators, and with the real progress that we are making on vaccines and testing, that goal is now firmly within our sight. Until then, we have stepped in to protect not just individual clubs and organisations, but entire sports and the communities they serve. I commend this statement to the House.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for sight of his statement, and for the accepting manner in which he has dealt with the pestering from me and from other Members on this subject. Through you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also thank all the civil servants at the Treasury and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport for their hard work on this support package for sport. That work is not unnoticed, and we thank them for it. However, as I mentioned, getting to this point has taken cross-party pestering, and meanwhile, sports are hanging by a thread.

I know that, for the Treasury, sport in the context of the UK Government’s spending is almost a rounding error. It is a comparatively small commitment on the very, very big Treasury spreadsheet, but that fact is irrelevant to how important sport is to families in all our constituencies. It plays a huge role in the life of our country and, given its place in keeping us healthy, we needed a swifter response than this. That is particularly the case when we see how sport has been messed about. In August, with eat out to help out and the Prime Minister saying that he wanted to see “bustle”, sports were told that it was full speed ahead towards the reopening in October until No. 10 executed a sharp about-turn, and since then the pace has been slow to glacial. So in order to speed things up, I would like to help the Minister with some questions that will hopefully prompt action.

In two weeks’ time, the current lockdown arrangements will come to an end, and we hear rumours of a return to the tier system. Can the Minister please clearly explain what that means for grassroots sport? There are so many people who rely on swimming, their football team, their rugby game, their running club or their round of golf for their mental and physical health, and the lack of sport is doing our country damage. It cannot go on for much longer, and that is especially true when it comes to our nation’s children, so will the Minister please tell us when children can return to training? Robbie Savage speaks for the nation when he counts down the days in frustration to when we can play sport, and we need answers.

Next, we need to know that the money the Minister has announced just now will reach sports quickly. The cultural recovery fund did not reach cultural organisations quickly enough, so can we ensure that we have no repeat of that experience? Will he commit to coming back to the House next month to explain the detail of the effect of this funding? Will it reach disability sport effectively, and will it support women’s and men’s sport absolutely equally, by penny piece? What measures will he put in place to ensure that that happens?

We live in uncertain times, and the once predictable sporting calendar has been shifted all over the shop, so will the Minister commit to keeping the situation under review? I think I heard him say that he had an open door for anyone who needed help. That is a good thing, and I welcome it. In relation to that, he has explained that these funds are in response to the cancellation of the very slow piloted return of spectators that we were expecting from 1 October. We had an extensive debate on this only last week in Westminster Hall, so can the Minister bring us up to date on that? What is the truth of the rumours that spectators will return, but only in line with the as yet unannounced tier system? There are also rumours concerning the number of spectators. Is it true that the cap will be 1,000 people? While we are on the subject of Members’ concerns, we have another Westminster Hall debate coming up next week on the governance of football, and I expect to see many Members there. If the Minister cannot give us full details of the fan-led review of football at the Dispatch Box today, I suggest that he does so next Wednesday.

Finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, I know it will not have escaped your notice that the Government started this crisis accusing premier league footballers of not doing their share, and ended the summer U-turning on child poverty in response to the heroic campaigning of a premier league footballer. That should be a lesson to the Government. Sports people have been messed about month after month, and the British people want better. My final question to the Minister is this: in the face of a deadly virus, nothing matters more than public health, so where is the comprehensive plan for wellbeing right across the UK? This funding announcement today is a panicked response to a bad situation made worse by Government incompetence, and the country deserves better.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for the gracious tone that she adopted—at the beginning of her speech at least—and she has also given me the opportunity to express my thanks to the Treasury team, DCMS officials and all those involved, including the sports, the governing bodies and the individual clubs who have worked tirelessly to get us to this point. That is perhaps an indication of why this has taken so long. It has taken several weeks to gather the necessary amount of information in the forensic detail required, but that was right because it is the disbursal of public money that we are talking about. In terms of the total amount, the Treasury estimates that around £1.5 billion, perhaps more, of public money has gone into sports, because we are talking not just about this fund but about the £200 million from Sport England and all the additional money that has gone into the various support schemes such as furlough, grants and reliefs over a period of many months.

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight the priority in terms of reopening. It is a shared goal across the Chamber to open as soon as it is safe to do so. That goes for grassroots and elite sport. As the Secretary of State has said, he wants to ensure that grassroots sport is at the front of the queue when it comes to reopening.

I can confirm, as I mentioned in my statement, that we hope for the money to be going out within weeks, and certainly for some of it to be disbursed before Christmas. There will be an appropriate proportion for women’s sport, and of course the total package will also support women’s sport. The hon. Lady has heard me say again and again—I will repeat it today—that with anybody receiving Government money, I expect an appropriate level to go to women’s sport. There is specific money for netball, as well as women’s basketball and women’s football, in the package.

Governance is not necessarily the major topic of today, but we will come to it again and again, and it is a priority. I am very happy about the hon. Lady mentioning that she effectively supports the Conservative party manifesto, which of course had a commitment to a grassroots review of football. We will continue that, and I welcome her joining us in that effort.

[Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con) [V]]

This announcement is very welcome. Rugby league, rugby union and the national league have all expressed to me their concerns about their survival during the latest lockdown period. Will the Minister explain whether the apportioning of money to individual sports clubs will be on the basis of lost ticket sales, revenue, or a combination of lost ticket sales, revenue and hospitality? The Minister has mentioned need. How will “need” be defined? How long will it take? Furthermore, this is not a one-for-one replacement for lost revenues, so what proportion of revenues across the major sports contained in the package does the Minister envisage will be covered?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for his comments and look forward to working with him over the coming weeks. In terms of the allocation of money, it is in the name: this is a winter survival package. It is not meant to be a full pound-for-pound compensation for lost revenue. The focus is from the point at which we were unable to open sports stadiums on 1 October through to spring. Therefore, while there may be hopes of and aspirations for a greater package, we needed to focus on what was needed to ensure that sports clubs can survive, and that is the focus of this effort. We are confident the package will do that. It is a substantial sum of £300 million and will make a huge effort in that direction.

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. I have spoken many times in this place about the power of sport and the crucial role that sports clubs, be they amateur, semi-pro or professional, play in our local communities. The Minister was absolutely right to lead with that point.

I am disappointed that the Government have decided to go down the loans route, rather than having 100% grant funding. While I welcome his commitment to the national league and to women’s football, the continuing omission of support for the senior professional men’s game is disappointing. Scottish football does not have the megabucks TV deal that the English game enjoys and is almost three times more reliant than most European football on ticket sales as a share of revenue, with gate receipts making up nearly half of all revenue. Does the Minister recognise that even if a small number of fans can return to stadiums, financial support is still needed for these clubs?

If the Government pursue a reopening strategy at any future point allowing the return of fans in low infection areas, what provision will be made to devolved nations that have different lockdown rules and permissions for fan return? Will the other UK nations be forced to follow in England’s footsteps, or will support for the industry from the UK Government respect devolved decision making?

In September, I asked the Minister to commit to full engagement with the Scottish Minister for sport, Joe FitzPatrick. Will the Minister confirm that he has spoken to his counterpart in Edinburgh to explain the ramifications of this announcement for the Scottish Government’s finances? The Minister will be aware that the Scottish Government have still not received clarity on the Barnett consequentials from previous announcements. He should also be aware that the Scottish Government do not have the powers to borrow to finance a similar loan scheme in Scotland—an aberration that the Treasury could and should fix.

To conclude, will the Minister please provide clarity to this House and to Scottish Ministers about what Barnett consequentials will flow from today’s announcements, so that the Scottish Government can provide similar support in Scotland and Scottish sport is not disadvantaged?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The mix of loans and grants will of course be driven by need and the ability to repay. Of the £300 million package, we estimate at this moment that £250 million will be loans and £50 million will be grants. However, the loans will be on preferential terms and will therefore have features of a grant in the early stages, such as payment holidays, so immediate repayment will not necessarily be expected. We all have skin in the game here, and the incentive is to get sport back up and running and on its feet and paying back some of those loans, because then we all benefit.

I can confirm that there are Barnett consequentials to this, as there are for other support packages. I cannot provide the hon. Gentleman with the details at the moment. I actually talked to Minister FitzPatrick this week, and I am sure we will do so again. How the money is spent is a decision for the devolved Administrations; sport is a devolved matter.

[Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con) [V]]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this excellent package of financial support for some core professional sports. I particularly welcome the settlement for national football, and I hope he will ensure that its distribution is based on gate receipts rather than league position.

I will focus specifically on rugby union. The Minister will be aware that, while the professional game has resumed, grassroots rugby has not, thus putting many clubs, which are small businesses themselves, in a challenging position. We have healthy, well-supported rugby club rivalries across Kent, but I fear that we are losing players and potential talent as a consequence of their not being able to play for most of this year, which threatens the viability of clubs due to the lack of supporters. Will he therefore tell the House what conversations he has had with the Rugby Football Union about the trickling down of that money to local rugby clubs and about the safe resumption of rugby at grassroots level, so that clubs can sustain themselves for the future?

[Nigel Huddleston]

It is great to see my hon. Friend and I wish her well in her recovery. On the rugby union package, we are in constant dialogue with Bill Sweeney about the entire package and about both the grassroots and professional game. The money announced today will have trickle-down effects and will benefit the grassroots game. Any professional club that is helped and saved with this package will often share facilities with the grassroots game, so it will help. As my hon. Friend knows, Sport England has provided £220 million of support, and we share the goal of getting grassroots sport up and running as soon as possible. Dialogue will continue on rugby union, and I look forward to talking to my hon. Friend about it further.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Lots of love, Tracey.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]]

I very much welcome this statement, as will sports clubs locally. Will this new package be backdated for sports clubs that faced regional lockdowns? I also highlight the important role that broadcasters played during the pandemic, and could continue to play, with more sports fixtures universally available, free to air. Has this not shown the importance of the listed events regime?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman raises a range of issues. We have encouraged free-to-air broadcasting, and we are pleased that sports that have never been broadcast before, such as Premier League football on the BBC, were broadcast during lockdown, and we are pleased with the various moves by the Premier League and others to make sure that their games are more accessible. This package runs from 1 October through to the spring, and that is the focus of the package.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement. He mentions leisure centres. I also put in a plea for the great outdoors, because many of our open spaces—parks and the like—are supported and maintained by community groups and councils, and they need funding to provide that. I also welcome his continued efforts to allow spectators to watch sports. League Two Grimsby Town play their home games in my constituency, and we fans are desperately keen to see at least one or two games before the end of the season.

[Nigel Huddleston]

It is not a question from the hon. Gentleman without his mentioning Grimsby Town. He never fails me on that. As I said, the goal is to open up and get fans back into stadiums as soon as it is safe to do so. We are working on the detail of the disbursement of the £100 million leisure facility package and will provide that information in due course. He is also right to point out the importance of our great outdoors. Throughout the coronavirus crisis, including during the first lockdown, the one thing that we were able to do consistently—not every country did this—was exercise outdoors. It is really important that people do that, to keep activity levels up. That is an absolute priority of the Government, as demonstrated in the latest lockdown restrictions.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

I, too, thank the Government for the support package that has been announced today, but no matter how much financial support there is, we need our supporters back into our stadiums. Bath’s local football and rugby clubs have worked a great deal over the summer to make sure that spectators can be safely brought back to matches. I know the Government are also keen to see that, but we need a clear road map from them on how our fans can return. Will the Minister therefore meet me to discuss the plans of Bath Rugby club and Bath City football club to get spectators back at the earliest possibility?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I would be delighted to meet the hon. Lady and I am sure we can arrange that soon. She is right to say that clubs have gone to great efforts, and great expense in many cases, to make sure they are secure and have followed the hygiene and coronavirus procedures to a great degree. Recently, we had to press the pause button on the reopening plans. We have not stopped those plans—we have just pressed the pause button—and we want to get back to reopening as soon as it is safe to do so.

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con) [V]]

As a lifelong Mansfield Town supporter, I want to get back into the One Call Stadium as soon as possible to cheer on the mighty Stags. Having 1,000 fans inside football grounds is not enough to cover clubs’ costs, and we need our clubs to survive. Will my hon. Friend look at having a sliding scale attendance figure for each Football League club, based on its current capacity, which will allow fans to support their teams safely and give clubs a financial boost, which they need to survive?

[Nigel Huddleston]

It is amazing what people can get away with on video link, isn’t it, Mr Deputy Speaker? I do not think you would allow that scarf to be worn in the House.

My hon. Friend raises valid points about when we will get back, and what the criteria and process will be. All of those are live issues and I would be happy to talk to him further about his proposals.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I will have words with you, Mr Anderson, when you come back to Parliament. Get well soon.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Before the Minister answers that, may I ask everyone to focus on short questions and short answers, as we are really under time pressure today?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman that I regularly meet Rick Parry and Richard Masters from the Premier League; we met this week, along with other stakeholders. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Premier League has made a commitment that it will not allow any EFL club to go under. At the elite end we have that commitment that no club will go under, and the package we have announced today for football will make sure that the National League does not go under. Therefore, across the whole pyramid we now have this security, but it is up to the Premier League and the EFL to come to a conclusion to those discussions. I encourage them to do so on a regular basis.

[Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con)]

I really welcome the Minister’s announcement that national league clubs up to level 7 will get extra support. Unfortunately, Northern league clubs including Consett, Tow Law Town, Crook Town and Willington in my constituency, along with Northallerton Town in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Rishi Sunak), are not quite there at the right level yet. We have had support from Sport England and the Football Foundation, but will he hear representations for support from the Northern league?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for those comments. We have talked about football many times, and I appreciate his support. The support announced today is for national league steps 1 to 2 to the tune of up to £11 million and national league steps 3 to 6 of up to £14 million. The more grassroots level is not supported in this package, but, as he mentioned, the route to get support is through Sport England and other packages such as the Football Foundation’s grants, which have helped clubs get back up to speed and ready for reopening. I am happy to continue those conversations with him.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

Football gives hope and joy to millions, just as we saw last week when big Davie Marshall dived to his left-hand side to send Scotland to our first European championships since 1996. For that hope and joy to persist, we need our football clubs in Scotland to exist. Will the Minister explain why £97 million-worth of cultural funding has been made available to Scotland through Barnett consequentials but we have yet to see a single penny of direct funding to support Scottish professional football clubs?

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston]

May I add my congratulations on Scotland’s performance? As I have said, there are Barnett consequentials to this package, as indeed there have been to others, but how that is spent is up to the devolved Administrations.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

I welcome the package. I take note of what the Minister said about the football league, but, as he knows, there is no financial package in place for community clubs in the football league. People may wonder why it is that, for example, the Exeter Chiefs—the premiership rugby team and European champions—will benefit along with premiership rugby from Government support but Exeter City football club, with its lower income and lower fan attendance, has so far got nothing at all. There needs to be more of a focus on those community clubs in the football league. After the end of the lockdown on 2 December, will communities in tier 3 not see grassroots sport return? There is concern about that, and I would be grateful for his reassurance, even if only to say that no decision has yet been made.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for those comments. I know what a great champion he is of sport and football in particular. Indeed, I cannot commit to exactly what the tiering system will be—no surprise there—but I repeat the commitment of the Secretary of State, who said that we want to ensure that grassroots is at the front of the queue. As I said, we all have an incentive to ensure that sport opens up and we get stadiums open as soon as possible.

In terms of EFL support, I refer my hon. Friend to the comments I made earlier about the Premier League and EFL needing to come to an arrangement. On the grassroots, we are very reliant on, and grateful for, the work Sport England has done with its £220 million of support for the grassroots game.

[Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab) [V]]

I have been contacted by sports clubs in my constituency, many of which, including Bedford Town and Kempston Rovers, are still unclear about what support, if any, they will get to help them through the crisis. While today’s announcement may be a relief to many rugby clubs, I am not confident that it will be enough to save those with a sustainable model such as Bedford Blues. Will the Minister guarantee that all clubs will be better off under today’s announcement than they were under the furlough scheme?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Perhaps I should it make clear that we encourage all clubs to take advantage of whatever Government support measures may be out there, including the existing scheme. This scheme and announcement is on top of existing schemes. I therefore encourage everybody and anybody to apply for everything they are eligible for. Of course, we are talking about a £300 million package, with over £100 million going to rugby union. Therefore, by definition, they will be better off than they would have been.

[Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con) [V]]

I welcome the news that the Government have agreed further financial support for rugby league clubs, which recognises the really important work that clubs such as Warrington Wolves do in our communities. Will my hon. Friend set out more details about that assistance for rugby league clubs? What contribution can his Department give to underwrite the world cup, which, as he knows, is due to be played here next year?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend. Indeed, we are announcing today an additional £12 million for rugby league, and that is on top of the £16 million that was announced earlier in the year. We will be working with the Rugby Football League to distribute that additional money. Actually, it has done a pretty good job so far, and therefore we will continue with the existing scheme, but topping it up with the £12 million. Like him, I am very much looking forward to having my first visit to a game in an official capacity as sports Minister, and maybe rugby might be one such game, but I hope that is before the world cup.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

There are many volunteer-led, grassroots sports clubs that are really struggling at this moment in time, and equally there are probably a number of would-be developers that are looking at developing their assets. They are in a vulnerable situation, and we need to make sure that this funding gets to the grassroots so that we do not lose the vital sports fields in all our constituencies. What is the Minister doing to ensure that that does not happen?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point about the availability of spaces and fields on which to play a game or, in fact, all sports. As I have said, the Sport England package of £220 million to help clubs of all sports through coronavirus is important, and today’s package will trickle down and help the grassroots. In particular, it will help sustain clubs where, of course, grassroots as well as professional and league games are played.

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

The Minister knows I care passionately about the sports clubs in my constituency, particularly the rugby clubs. I very much welcome this announcement and his efforts to get stadiums back open again, so that I might be able to go back to Gwernyfed rugby club very soon. He has already mentioned that this decision generates some funding for the Welsh Government. Can he tell me what can be done to make sure that the Welsh Government actually get the money to sports clubs in Wales?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend, and indeed it is not the first time we have talked rugby in this Chamber. To appeal to the common sense and good will of our colleagues in Wales is the most important thing we can do. There will be Barnett consequentials, but I respect the fact that sport is a devolved matter, and I am sure that they will be listening to this debate. As I have said, there will be Barnett consequentials, and therefore I hope that they will use this money appropriately.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

Community leisure facilities are the most accessible way for people to get fit and active, yet we face the real prospect of sports facilities in clubs in more affluent areas of the country enjoying reopening post pandemic, whereas those in the more deprived and disadvantaged communities remaining unviable. In Newcastle, we are very concerned that the West Denton swimming pool, for example, is at risk of remaining permanently closed due to the financial impact of the pandemic, despite the area facing some of the worst health inequalities. This cannot happen, so will the Minister commit to ensuring today that funding will be given for community leisure facilities post pandemic to ensure that sport remains genuinely accessible for all?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady. Of course, community facilities and leisure facilities are the responsibility of both central and local government. I know how important they are for local government, and as I say, information on the application process for this £100 million package will be coming very soon. The hon. Lady is absolutely right to mention the importance of making sure that Government money is spread right across the country. The very first sport package we gave out in order to help was for rugby league, and today’s announcement will help clubs right across the country.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) [V]]

I welcome the £6 million announcement for motorsport in particular. There is currently no certainty about the future of next year’s world rally championship in the United Kingdom. Can any of the resource that has been announced today be released to facilitate the bid, which is being supported by racers and by Motorsport UK, for Northern Ireland to host the WRC in 2021? This is not a devolved issue; this is a UK-wide issue. I hope that the Minister can help us, and help Elfyn Evans in what I hope will be his world championship year to race it in Ulster?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I know what a fan the hon. Gentleman is of motorsports. What he proposes is not the purpose of this package. As I said, this is a sports winter survival package for the specific purpose I outlined earlier, but I am happy to have conversations with him about what he proposes.

[Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con)]

I am delighted that the Chancellor’s money tree continues to bear rich fruit, but while the premier league is cash-rich, lower league clubs such as Southend United have been suffering during the pandemic as a result, dare I say, of poor results and finances. Will my hon. Friend write to me to let me know precisely how much of this money Southend United will get? Will he also look at golf clubs and bowls clubs?

[Nigel Huddleston]

To be very clear, we are not announcing today, club-by-club, what will be allocated. That is subject to the next stage of the process, working with Sport England and governing bodies to make sure the money is disbursed to individual clubs, but I am happy to follow up with my hon. Friend as that process evolves. In terms of other sports, the criteria we are talking about is the financial challenge caused by the decision not to open on 1 October and what is required by sports to enable them to survive through to spring. Therefore, for any entity that believes it fits that criteria and deserves some money, while the allocations I have announced are provisional, the door is open to other bids.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for this welcome announcement for England. I am sure he will join me in congratulating the Welsh Labour Government on their £14 million funding package for Wales’s sport and leisure sector, which was made in advance of his announcement today. What conversations has the Minister had with the Welsh Government and what funding will flow to the devolved nations after this announcement today?

[Nigel Huddleston]

As the hon. Lady may have heard, I can confirm that there are Barnett consequentials to the announcement today, and it is up to Wales how it chooses to spend any money. I congratulate the Welsh Government on prioritising sport and leisure. As sports Minister, she would not expect me to say anything else.

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I welcome this package of support. I am keen to get fans back into Portman Road as soon as possible in a safe way.

My particular point is about the Landseer Park BMX track, which lies at the heart of the Gainsborough community. It is unique and has been there for a very long time. It is in a deprived area and it gives young people there something positive to do. The track is deteriorating and there is a campaign to raise money to resurface it, but it is around £60,000 short at the moment. Will the Minister work with me, Tracey from the BMX track and British Cycling to, one way or another, make sure it gets that financial support, so that that unique BMX track can remain at the heart of the Gainsborough community?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend raises an important point about making sure we have sports facilities of all sorts and ranges available for our constituents. Sport England is the body most appropriate to approach to seek funding. Of course, it has prioritised its coronavirus response recently, but I am sure it will get back to business as usual in allocations as soon as possible. I would be happy to have further conversations about this with my hon. Friend.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

Today’s announcement is very welcome for premiership rugby clubs such as Harlequins, as well as national league south football clubs such as Hampton and Richmond, both of which are in my constituency. The Minister is aware that Quins ran the largest pilot event to date with spectators: 3,500 attended a match earlier this year which was proved to be very safe and very secure. We will naturally return, in time, to spectators in stands, which will be a graduated process, so can the Minister provide some assurances to clubs such as Quins and Hampton and Richmond that support will not be withdrawn immediately, because ticket revenues will cover only a small proportion of their costs? Will he see to it that we will not have the perverse situation whereby people are allowed into hospitality suites to watch matches, but not outdoors in the stands where it is an awful lot safer?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady and I have spoken a couple of times about some of the points she raises. I can give her the reassurance that the pilots that took place earlier this year in her constituency and across the country were not a waste of time. They were fantastic learning experiences and proved very well that we could open stadiums safely, but of course there is a bigger issue in terms of transport to and from stadiums and all sorts of other matters that we need to consider in the context of the current coronavirus environment. I would be happy to follow up on some of the other issues she raises.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

May I ask my hon. Friend—my very good friend—to look at why UK Athletics and England Athletics seem to be allowed to self-assess what they do with the money given to them, especially with regard to the results they achieve? Perhaps we could have a meeting on the matter, to which I could bring some of the affected athletes from my constituency, who feel most aggrieved.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend for a whole host of reasons, but in particular to talk sport. I note the concerns he raises and would be happy to discuss them with him. To be fair, I think we have made huge progress with British athletics. Think back to 1996, which is not so long ago, when we got one gold medal and were 36th in the medal table at the Olympics. We were second, with 25-plus medals, at Rio. We have made progress, but perhaps we can make even more.

[Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP) [V]]

Scottish football clubs, such as Forfar Athletic, Brechin City, Montrose and Arbroath in my Angus constituency, are almost three times more reliant on ticket sales, with gate receipts making up approximately 43% of club revenues. The Minister advised my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) that Barnett consequentials will be a feature of this package, but he was unable to say how much it would be or when it would be available. Can the Minister at least advise us when this detail will be made available to Scottish Government colleagues, so that they can, together with clubs, plan how to invest it?

[Nigel Huddleston]

As I have said, I can confirm that, as with other support packages, there are Barnett consequentials. I am not able to give the hon. Gentleman the details he seeks today, but I will work with Treasury officials and others to make sure that information is forthcoming.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

I welcome this package and congratulate the Minister on securing it from the Treasury. However, we all recognise that it cannot last forever, so does he accept that we need a change of approach for sports participation, with its huge benefits for both physical and mental health?

Does the Minister also accept that we need help for the huge ecosystem of the sport and leisure industries, and their army of employees? They have spent considerable sums on making things safe, and they need the public back through their doors and gates. That includes sports clubs, racecourses and gyms, as well as pubs, clubs, betting shops and casinos. Can the Minister now persuade the Department of Health and Social Care and the Cabinet Office to abandon their risk avoidance and risk aversion strategy, and to adopt an evidence-based risk management approach?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a pertinent point about the importance of the mental health benefits of sport, as well as its physical benefits. The conversations about what we can open and when are always ongoing, and all opinions are welcome, but we will take an evidence-based approach to those decisions.

[Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con)]

Smaller sports teams such as Radcliffe and Prestwich Heys in my constituency sit at the heart of their communities and are a source of local pride. I look forward to being able to get back to the Neuven Stadium soon. Will my hon. Friend confirm that the winter survival package will support sports teams in Britain’s towns, and not just in big cities? Will he commit to looking further at what support can be given to grassroots football?

[Nigel Huddleston]

It is always good to talk football with my hon. Friend—it is not for the first time. I know his passion for the subject. As I have said, it is really important that we get grassroots football up and running again as soon as possible. We made great strides in the summer and we want to get back as soon as we can. The package announced today will benefit areas across the country—towns, cities and rural areas will benefit.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Sports Minister for meeting me to discuss Castleford Tigers, and for listening to us and the thousands of rugby league supporters who have signed petitions and called for this urgent help. The funding he has announced is really important to get clubs through the winter, but as we do not yet know what next year will bring, will he undertake to keep working with rugby league, with grants as well as loans where needed, to guarantee that none of our vital rugby league clubs go under because of covid?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Yes, I would of course be happy to continue the dialogue. This package is intended to provide help through to the spring. We do not know what the circumstances will be next year—none of us has a crystal ball—but we are all extremely hopeful that vaccines and other measures will enable us to have a much brighter future. We will address the circumstances as they arise.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Minister, thank you for your statement and for responding to questions. We will now suspend for three minutes.

Disabled Access: Leisure Facilities

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on securing the debate. She raises an important issue, following a disturbing experience of one of her constituents at a leading tourist attraction. It does not surprise me at all that she raises this issue with the compassion and professionalism that her constituents have come to expect from their excellent Member of Parliament. I will briefly respond to the issue raised before moving on to talk in more general terms about what the Government are doing in this area.

The specific case raised by my hon. Friend was a very unfortunate incident, and I sympathise with her constituents, the 26,000 people who signed the petition and the families who have written to her to articulate their concerning cases and experiences. I understand that Merlin, which owns Legoland and many other visitor attractions in the UK and around the world, has been in contact with the family. My hon. Friend will be aware that I am unable to discuss this particular incident or the specifics of the case in detail. However, my officials have also been in contact with Merlin, and I understand that it is looking into further operational changes, including staff training, which is so important to the visitor experience and the overall visitor experience for guests with disabilities. I am glad that it is also focusing on accessibility issues more broadly across its attractions, and I appreciate that it has also written to my hon. Friend directly.

My hon. Friend will be aware that, as the tourism Minister, I do not have direct responsibility for disability discrimination law. Ultimately, disability discrimination is governed by the Equality Act 2010 and is the responsibility of the Government Equalities Office, so I hope she accepts that I may not be able to give her complete chapter and verse on all the legal particulars of the case she raises, but I hope I can give a reasonably detailed response. The Equality Act requires service providers, including tourist attractions such as theme parks, to make “reasonable adjustments” to improve access for disabled customers of all ages. Fundamentally, disabled customers should not be placed at a substantial disadvantage to non-disabled customers. Ultimately, the question of whether there has been a failure to comply with the Act hinges on what does or does not constitute a “reasonable adjustment.”

The Equality Advisory and Support Service can be contacted—via its website, telephone or textphone—by anyone who believes that they or their children have been discriminated against during the provision of services, and it can contact a service provider on the customer’s behalf to discuss any particular concerns raised. It also liaises with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which has powers to enforce the provisions of the Equality Act. I am happy to take this up in writing with the relevant Equalities Minister if my hon. Friend would like a more detailed response.

In the meantime, I will set out more broadly what the Government have done and are doing to make tourism and leisure more accessible. In 2019 we published the tourism sector deal, which set out an ambition to make the UK the most accessible destination in Europe by 2025. There were several reasons we wanted to pursue that goal. First, and most importantly, it is simply the right thing to do. Our amazing visitor economy—attractions, accommodation and transport—should be open to everyone. Secondly, it makes business and economic sense. According to Visit Britain, 43,000 British adults with a disability did not take a domestic holiday in 2017, when figures were last available. If they did take a domestic holiday, that would equate to a £117 million boost to the British economy. Thirdly, we have an ageing population. Projections indicate that in 50 years’ time there will be an additional 8.6 million people aged 65 and over in the UK. We must ensure that our tourism sector is fully developed to take account of the needs of those older tourists, many of whom will have access requirements, even if they do not consider themselves to be disabled.

The fact that we made that commitment does not mean that we are not already undertaking action to make the UK’s tourism offering more accessible. For example, VisitEngland has a dedicated web portal, providing tailored business advice to tourism businesses. Among other things, that includes detailed guidance on how businesses can welcome people with autism, dementia or hearing loss. I know that the tourist boards of the devolved Administrations are similarly engaging on those issues. VisitEngland has also ensured that its promotional and marketing activities are inclusive. For example, its “Escape the Everyday” campaign—it is currently on hold due to national restrictions, but we expect it to be revived shortly—has worked in partnership with Channel 4 to launch the “Mission Accessible” series, which follows comedian Rosie Jones as she participates in activities from the perspective of a disabled person with accessibility requirements.

In the Budget earlier this year, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced a £30 million Changing Places fund to increase the provision of changing places and toilets in public buildings. Those are just a few examples. Furthermore, I know that many businesses in the private sector also provide excellent services to disabled customers. There are some standout examples, such as Eureka! The National Children’s Museum in Halifax and the Titanic exhibition in Belfast.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) mentioned Disney World and Universal Studios in Florida as two examples where they enable profoundly disabled children in wheelchairs to travel. I have seen that when I have been there. Has the Minister had the opportunity at short notice to ascertain whether we can do that? If they can do it in America, we can do it here.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Prior to becoming a Member of Parliament, I worked in the tourism, hospitality and leisure sector, working with theme parks around the world, including the major theme park operators in the US and elsewhere.

There are leading global best practices and, to be fair, we have some in the UK. We should not belittle the progress that has been made, but we see with incidents, such as those mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud, that we have further progress to make. We all need to learn from the best practices and there are outstanding examples throughout the world that we should learn from. Here on our own shores, with Halifax and the Belfast Titanic exhibition, we do already have some fantastic examples, but it is not consistent and it is not everywhere.

I know that many businesses wish to make further progress. There are also many charities, social enterprises and not-for-profit organisations doing great work in the area as well, such as Nimbus Disability and the Family Holiday Association. Despite all that activity, there is more to do and I am keen to look at the issue of accessible tourism in more detail. I will raise the issue directly with Merlin, the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions and other relevant tourism bodies, which I meet regularly as part of the Tourism Industry Council. I will be happy to facilitate further meetings with those bodies with my hon. Friend directly.

As we make further arrangements to make venues, attractions and other sites, such as sports stadiums, covid-secure, it is also important to ensure that they are accessible for all. I know that the sports sector is considering how to improve accessibility in sports stadiums, which was the topic of a recent report by the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee when I sat on it.

The Government’s ambition is to ensure that we all work towards an even more accessible tourism and leisure industry. As I said, the sector itself and the companies involved also realise their responsibilities in this area. Their purpose is to bring joy to people and families. We need to ensure that everybody is included in that. Although great strides have been made, there is still much more to do. I look forward to playing my part in ensuring that happens.

Question put and agreed to.

Peterborough United: Covid-19

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 12th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Mr Vara) for introducing the debate and for the contributions he has made towards this important topic today.

Football clubs such as Peterborough United are vital parts of their communities. They have unique social value and enjoy rich histories. My hon. Friend is a fantastic advocate for his club. I know this well. We have spoken about football, and in particular Peterborough United, on many occasions. May I say immediately that I would be very keen indeed to take up his invitation to visit him in his constituency and the club? He outlined in incredibly forensic detail the many measures that his club and others across the country have taken to prepare for the safe opening of stadiums as soon as they are able to do so. I appreciate his attention to detail in outlining the case.

The Posh, as they are affectionately known, have been a mainstay of English football for more than 85 years. They have a very proud history, as my hon. Friend has articulated, and of course have very strong grounds to be optimistic about their future. Peterborough were, of course, unlucky to miss out on the play-offs last year, but given that they currently occupy the top position in league one, this season looks pretty positive for them. I hope that their good form continues and I wish them the very best of luck for the rest of the campaign.

As well as the team’s success on the pitch, the Peterborough United Foundation, as my hon. Friend has said, has undertaken incredible work off the pitch for many years. I think it was first founded in 2009. My hon. Friend mentioned many of the foundation’s activities. I was particularly impressed with all the work on access, including for the disabled and the elderly and, of course—this is a passion of mine—for women and girls, through its girls elite and development centre, and its support for the Premier League Primary Stars programme to create a healthier and more positive future for the country’s children.

The club and the foundation have also stepped up to the plate during coronavirus, helping the city during these incredibly difficult times by sending care packages to vulnerable fans across Peterborough and the surrounding areas. This is yet another great example of football clubs demonstrating their importance to local communities. In this place over the past few weeks, we have talked a lot about the role of rugby in communities. Perhaps we should not overlook the important role that football and football clubs play as well.

The Government have provided unprecedented support to businesses throughout this difficult period, including a comprehensive and sizeable package of direct fiscal support. Many football clubs have benefited from these measures, such as the business rates relief and the furlough scheme. Sport England has also provided £210 million of national lottery and Government funding to support the sector through covid-19. That includes a £35 million community emergency fund, which is helping community clubs and exercise centres during the pandemic. The Football Foundation, a charity set up by the Government, the Football Association and the Premier League, has also introduced a number of funds to help clubs. The latest is a matchday support fund, helping clubs prepare for the resumption of football.

I completely understand the importance of getting fans back into sports stadiums. My hon. Friend talked passionately about this, as have many other Members over the last few weeks. However, rising infection rates across the country meant that, unfortunately, it was not the right time to proceed with a wider reopening on 1 October, as we had planned. The Government understand the financial consequences of this decision and are focusing our support on those in the sector who are most in need as a result. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is working closely with the Treasury to confirm a support package, and we will set out further details in due course.

In addition, the Government recently brokered a unique deal with the National Lottery, which has provided £10 million in funding for the 66 clubs in the national league so that they can continue to play behind closed doors, and, of course, the English Football League is currently in discussions with the Premier League about a support package. I am hopeful and optimistic that those discussions will come to a positive conclusion very shortly.

We are absolutely committed to getting spectators back into stadia as soon as it is safe to do so. We will continue to work closely with a whole range of sports to understand the latest thinking that might allow spectators to return. The Government have invited the Sports Technology and Innovation Group—STIG for short—to analyse new technologies that might support the return of spectators. I spoke to the chair of the group this week, as did the Secretary of State, and we heard about the vital work that it is undertaking which will help to get spectators back in stadia as soon as possible.

We have made significant progress since the start of the pandemic. We worked closely with the sector to bring elite athletes back into training before returning competitive sport behind closed doors. We welcomed international athletes, with health protocols that helped to isolate the competitors, and set out detailed and stringent guidance for the safe return of spectators. The return of spectators was also successfully tested through the staging of pilot events over the summer, but these plans regrettably had to be paused as the virus was spreading. Rest assured, I understand the importance of pressing play on our plans and how unfortunate that was, but we will return to these plans as soon as we can. We pressed the pause button; we intend to return as soon as possible.

Before I conclude—the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is strangely not in his place this evening—I would like to take the opportunity to wish Northern Ireland and Scotland good luck in their Euro 2020 play-off matches tonight—Northern Ireland versus Slovakia and Scotland versus Serbia, kick off at 7.45 pm. I am sure that many will be watching. I am grateful for today’s wide-ranging discussion about a subject that is close to my heart, many hearts here and the hearts of many of our constituents. I conclude by confirming that the Government are absolutely committed to continuing to support the sport sector and getting spectators back into stadia as soon as it is safe to do so.

Question put and agreed to.

Future of the National Trust

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Wednesday 11th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a genuine honour to serve under your maiden chairmanship, Ms Bardell. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) on securing the debate, and thank all those who have participated. No debate is complete without a quote from my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes), so it was a pleasure to hear from him today.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire acknowledged, the National Trust is one of the largest and most respected heritage membership organisations in the world. It has more than 5.5 million members, welcomes nearly 27 million visitors to its sites each year, has around 9,500 staff and is supported by 65,000 volunteers. The trust’s first property was acquired in 1895 for £10 and is still open today, and from that, the trust has steadily grown. Today, it has 250,000 hectares of land, 780 miles of coastline and more than 300 historic houses and gardens.

Some 125 years later, the National Trust is still helping people to enjoy the country’s enormous wealth of heritage sites. The trust is, in so many ways, a hugely successful heritage organisation, but that does not mean that we should not ask serious questions about it or how it should be held accountable. As I am sure my right hon. Friend is aware, the National Trust is a creature of statute: it was formally created by the National Trust Act 1907, which has been amended several times since, and the organisation has evolved since Royal Assent.

The organisation’s vision is to preserve,

“protect and care for places so people and nature can thrive.”

To deliver on that ambition, the trust is governed by a board of independent trustees. The chair is supported by a team of trustees who bring expertise to the running of the trust. It is also a registered charity and is therefore regulated by the Charity Commission, which is itself answerable to Parliament. The board must therefore ensure that its activities do not contravene or compromise the trust’s charitable objectives.

I set out those governance arrangements to make one point: the National Trust is an independent body. It is independent of the Government and does not receive any ongoing public funding for its work, and its activities are overseen by its board and the regulatory Charity Commission. Of course, as I have said, the trust is a creature of statute, so although the Government could, in theory, instigate a review into the trust’s operations, for which some have argued, we would not be able to implement changes in the way that some have suggested. If the trust is found to have breached its charitable objectives, the Charity Commission, as the trust’s regulator, would be a more effective body to implement that.

That does not mean that the Government are not actively interested in what the trust does or how it goes about its business. I gently suggest, however, that tasking a Government commission to look into the trust to solve its complex problems is not a realistic idea. If there were an appetite for it—both in Parliament and in Government—the statute could be reviewed to consider whether it continues to provide a suitable legislative framework. I am sure right hon. and hon. Members will agree that that should be done only as a last resort, but it is an option. There are many other avenues of influence to effect change, including debates such as this one.

Parliamentary interest can be extremely influential, and I am sure the National Trust will be listening closely to the views expressed today, as I am sure are members of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, who will also reflect on what has been said.

[Sir John Hayes]

I understand the Minister’s remarks about the Government’s position, but surely asking the National Trust—at a time when it is laying off something like 1,300 staff—how much it has spent on the review, how many staff have been involved and what it has budgeted for a review of the link between 93 properties, including Chartwell, and colonialism is not an unreasonable question for a culture Minister to ask.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I do not think my right hon. Friend is understanding what I am saying. We do need to hold the trust to account and to ask it questions, but it is, after all, an independent body. We have many mechanism to do so—of course, we are doing so today. I assure right hon. and hon. Members that I will write to the National Trust. I will send it a transcript of the debate so that it can hear the strength of feeling expressed today and answer some of the questions raised. I repeat: it is an independent body, and we need to respect that.

Reports of the events at the National Trust’s annual general meeting suggest that some of its members are not impressed with some of the trust’s activities and direction. It was reported as being bombarded with complaints, with its members wanting it to focus on managing the beautiful houses and gardens, and not on the historical links to slavery and empire in its collection. The chief executive was reported as saying that the National Trust was still deciding how it will use information in the recent slavery report, and the Government will continue to take an interest in that.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has also made his views clear about the trust’s review of the links to slavery and empire in its collection. On 22 September, he stated firmly that the National Trust should focus first and foremost on protecting and preserving our heritage. He was right to highlight that as the trust’s chief concern, and he rightly pointed out that neglecting it will understandably surprise and disappoint people.

I hear the calls for a review or commission on the National Trust. As I set out earlier, however, I am not convinced that a commission is the most effective way to bring about the sort of change that right hon. and hon. Members would like to see. Given the current state of play, I believe that the best approach is to rely on the good sense of the board and its executives to heed and respond to the voices of its members, its army of volunteers, the general public, the media, the Charity Commission as its regulator, and of course Parliament.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire is aware, the trust is losing approximately £200 million of its budgeted revenues for this year as a consequence of coronavirus. It is having to draw on its reserves, though it is also making use of Government assistance, such as the furlough scheme. However, it is important for us to bear in mind that 80% of the National Trust’s funds are legally restricted, meaning they are not available to the trust to spend on running costs or redundancy.

The loss of funding has meant that, sadly, the National Trust has made 513 compulsory redundancies and 782 redundancies. As I understand it, the redundancies protect as far as possible the conservation and curatorial functions of the trust, and it has stressed that the changes do not alter its mission. I also understand that there are no plans to permanently close any of its properties. My right hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire mentioned that he has heard otherwise, so I will seek clarity on that point.

For the reasons that I have set out, I believe the National Trust is a success story. One hundred and twenty-five years on from its foundation, it continues to serve the country by preserving the United Kingdom’s rich tapestry of heritage sites and buildings for the public to enjoy. As my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire has argued, however, its future must be a focus, and it must focus on its core functions: to curate and preserve historic houses, gardens and landscapes for everyone to enjoy.

Although I completely understand the intent behind the National Trust’s decision to undertake a review of its historic houses, especially in this time of heightened awareness of discrimination, I think the National Trust will feel that the way that it was done was unfortunate. I accept that the trust did not intend to cause offence, but we must acknowledge that, for many people, it did cause offence. The trust must reflect on that and learn from it.

For over a century, the trust has focused on preserving and curating our great historic houses, gardens and landscapes for the nation. That is what it should focus on during the next century, too.

Question put and agreed to.

Football Spectator Attendance: Covid-19

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, and I will indeed make sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) has plenty of time to sum up, given that his nine minutes of fame were disrupted earlier. I am grateful to him for leading the debate and for the contributions that he and many other hon. Members have made. The number of people who signed the petition speaks volumes about the importance of football and sport in general, and about making sure that we get fans back into stadiums.

We are in vehement agreement that we want to make sure that fans get back into stadiums as soon as possible. There is a slight disagreement on how and when we do that, but on both sides of the Chamber, and in all our constituencies, we are of one voice and mind. We want to get fans back as soon as it is safe. That is absolutely the Government’s goal.

Football clubs, as we have heard again and again today, and in all previous debates on the matter, are at the heart of our communities. They have unique social value, and many have rich and honourable histories. As Minister for Sport, I can attest to the importance of football clubs at all levels in their local areas, and to the incredible support that they have offered throughout the pandemic. From turning their car parks into NHS testing centres to delivering food packages to those isolating, that has been demonstrated again and again in the last few months.

The Government have provided an unprecedented support package to businesses throughout the period, including a comprehensive and sizeable package of direct fiscal support through tax reliefs, cash grants and employee wage support. Many football clubs have benefited from those measures and others, such as business rates relief and the furlough scheme. Sport England has provided £210 million of national lottery and Government funding to support the sport and the physical activity sector overall through covid-19. That includes the £35 million community emergency fund, which is helping community sports clubs and exercise centres during the pandemic.

The Football Foundation, a charity set up by the Government, the FA and the Premier League, has also introduced a number of funds to help clubs during these difficult times. The latest is the match day support fund, which helps clubs to prepare for the resumption of football. That follows the foundation’s pitch and club preparation funds, which also distributed grants to many local clubs.

The Government have worked tirelessly to get sports back up and running in the last few months. We were able to get elite sports, including the Premier League, back behind closed doors in June to allow seasons to be finished and vital revenue to flow into the game again. We ensured that Project Restart was shared with everyone by getting live Premier League football on the BBC for the first time. Elite sport will also be allowed to continue during the period of national restrictions that came in from last week.

I am fully aware of the importance of getting spectators back into stadiums for many sports, not just football, but rising infection rates across the country meant that, unfortunately, it was not the right time to proceed with a wider reopening on 1 October, as was widely recognised. A key issue is that this is not just about fans sitting in stands within the stadiums—admittedly outdoors, as many hon. Members have said—where infection rates are generally lower than indoors. We must consider the whole fan journey from home to venue, how fans travel to and from stadiums, the risk of gathering inside and outside such venues, and the high number of contact points that that risks.

The hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) recognised that those are challenges, and not only here. We keep a close eye on what is happening in other nations and, indeed, other countries.

[Ruth Cadbury]

As the right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) said clearly, there are different situations and different physical layouts in different stadiums. Brentford football club has a brand-new stadium. Fans can come from all sorts of different directions, stations, bus stops and so on, and of course, only those permitted to enter the stadium should be anywhere near the ground at the time. Surely there is an opportunity for flexibility in the way that those rules are implemented.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for that point, and I certainly understand what she is saying. One of the problems or challenges we have is that while every individual is saying, “Can I get back to my stadium?”, we would have to multiply that by several levels, several leagues and several sports, and all of a sudden we would have to work on a scale that was far beyond what we believe is acceptable at this moment. However, we are considering the point made by several Members today that a one-size-fits-all approach may not be appropriate. We are paying careful attention not only to what is happening in other nations, but to what is happening in other countries in terms of opening up.

The Government understand the financial consequences of the decision not to allow spectators into stadiums from 1 October.

[Alison McGovern]

Before the Minister moves on to finances, may I ask him about pilots? We were on a journey of getting pilots under way and we know that that process needs to be completed, so when does he anticipate that happening?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. We have had this conversation and others on many occasions; we agree on a lot, including the route, although we may disagree on timing to some degree. Pilots were pivotal; pilots have been very successful. They have been excellent learning points and learning opportunities, and that work has not been wasted, because it is helping to inform the decision making. We want to get pilots back and we want to get fans back in stadiums as soon as possible.

The hon. Lady keeps saying, “What’s the plan?” We have had a plan from very early on in lockdown; in the first lockdown, we had a plan, and it has been explicitly stated and is out there. Unfortunately, what we have had to do on a couple of occasions is press the pause button, but we want to get back to the plan as soon as we can.

The consequences of the decision not to allow spectators into stadiums from 1 October had financial implications. Therefore, we need to focus our support on those in the sector who are most in need as a result of that decision. We have worked with the sector over the past four weeks to build a bottom-up view of the impact that that decision had on football and on many other sports, and on their requirements. We are now in the final stages of discussions with colleagues in the Treasury and I hope that very shortly we will be in a position to confirm the support that will be available.

In addition to the support package, the Government have brokered a unique £10 million deal with the national lottery, so that the 66 clubs in the top two levels of the national league can continue to play behind closed doors. The allocation of funding to clubs has been decided by the national league. We understand that the league has used an approach that is broadly based on past attendance and will keep allocations under review.

[Alison McGovern]

Will the Minister give way?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Very briefly—one more time.

[Alison McGovern]

Can the Minister say what the impact on the women’s game has been of that financial arrangement?

[Nigel Huddleston]

As the hon. Lady knows, we have had conversations about this issue, and I have said again and again and again that I expect anybody in receipt of public money to make sure that women’s sport is prioritised appropriately.

The support that we have given recognises the important role that national league clubs play in their local areas: being a source of pride to their town, giving children opportunities to get active and being at the heart of their communities. The national lottery is working with the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish football associations to explore similar initiatives for their respective leagues.

We are committed to getting spectators back into stadiums as soon as it is safe to do so and we will continue to work closely with a range of sports, including football, to understand their latest thinking about what might allow spectators to return. As part of that process, the Government have talked to the Sports Technology and Innovation Group, or STIG, as several Members have referred to it today. It is a group of sporting bodies and health experts that the Government have invited to analyse new technologies that might support the return of spectators. Both the draft Government guidance and the Sports Grounds Safety Authority’s supplementary guidance have been welcomed internationally.

We have made significant progress since the start of the pandemic: we have worked closely with the sector to bring elite athletes back into training, providing careful guidance on that; we have seen the return of competitive sport behind closed doors; we have welcomed international athletes with health protocols that isolate competitors within an event bubble; and we have set out detailed and stringent guidance for the safe return of spectators, which was successfully tested through the staging of pilot spectator events over the summer. Regrettably, those plans have had to be paused, as the virus is spreading and incidence rates are rising across the country, but rest assured that I understand the importance of continuing with our plans, and we will return to them as soon as we can.

I will take a few minutes to comment on other points made by hon. Members today. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North talked in his opening speech about the overall financial sustainability and viability of football. He was absolutely right. We have some issues with football, which is precisely why the manifesto on which we both stood said that we would have a grassroots review of football governance. That is still very much the plan and it will inevitably involve the consideration of financial flows as well as governance. I also congratulate him on managing to get oatcakes, pies and Bovril into his initial speech; people will have to read Hansard to see it in full.

The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) mentioned the importance of season ticket holders and the incredible loyalty that they have shown. Despite not being able to go and see live sport, many of them have either contributed or deferred their contributions. I also thank them for that loyalty. My hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Julian Knight) said that it would be absurd for taxpayers’ money to be used to bail out or support elite football. I largely agree with him, although I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) expressed a slightly different opinion. It is vital, as I have said from the very beginning, that football at the elite level should look after itself where it can. My hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Sara Britcliffe) said that there is enough money in football, but it is poorly distributed, and I am afraid that we have been seeing that.

The hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) mentioned the importance of women’s sport. As I said in response to the hon. Member for Wirral South, and as I have said repeatedly and will say again, I expect anyone in receipt of Government money to spend a fair and reasonable proportion on the women’s game. My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe mentioned several matters, including taxes, and I can confirm that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has agreed to enter discussions and make arrangements with individual clubs on time to pay. He also mentioned the discussions between the English Football League and the Premier League. I will not breach any confidences, but I have had conversations with those two entities. We have had robust, frank but cordial discussions, and I have encouraged them both to continue their very important conversations, because, as I have repeatedly said, we expect football at the elite level to look after itself.

There is plenty of money in football, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn said, but it is not all distributed in the right way. On the conditions for Government support, in most other sectors, including the arts, the creative industries and heritage, any Government money is predicated on criteria such as there being no other viable, credible options, and on the entities facing an existential threat.

Money is on the table for the EFL, although I suspect it will not be enough for what has been proposed. I therefore encourage the EFL and the Premier League to continue their conversations professionally, and to recognise that they will both have to compromise. For the good of sport and football, they must come to a reasonable arrangement, because it would not be acceptable for the British public to bail out elite football. There is lots of money in elite football in this country. Average players in the championship league, for example, get a considerable amount. I have heard of figures from £500,000 to £800,000 or over £1 million for the average player in the championship league. The idea that we should use public money—our constituents’ money—to bail them out is simply not acceptable. I recognise that the EFL and the Premier League both have stakeholders who are difficult to deal with, and who have varying opinions, but I appeal to them to come to a reasonable conclusion and a compromise as soon as possible.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), who knows a considerable amount about this topic as a former Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, mentioned other revenue streams. Immediately following this debate, we have a debate on conferences and events in the wedding industry, which many clubs rely on for their revenue base. I am very aware that clubs are losing revenue from not only gate receipts, but other areas. The many routes that we are looking at through STIG and other initiatives that could open up sport also apply to conference events, theatres and other sectors, and it is therefore really important that we continue to focus on those initiatives.

I have mentioned pilots, which many hon. Members mentioned. My hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Antony Higginbotham) mentioned the financial stimulation that football provides to the local economy. It ensures that pubs, bars, restaurants, clubs and many other entities are able to survive, which is absolutely vital.

My hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden) mentioned the role of owners. I am very aware that we rely on owners to subsidise and support our clubs up and down the country. Many of them are facing difficult times in their other business interests, so I do not take for granted the support, the financial constraints and the amount of money that they have given their clubs. It is very much appreciated, and it shows the passion that they have for the sport.

I am grateful for today’s important discussion about a subject that means so much to so many people, both in this room and across the country. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting sport and to getting spectators back into stadiums as soon as it is safe to do so, and I will continue to work on this very important issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 5th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)]

What steps his Department is taking to support the tourism sector during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

Covid-19 has had a severe impact on tourism, which is why we have provided a range of targeted measures to see the sector through this period. On top of the Government’s wider economic support package, we have provided business rates relief and grants for many in the sector, as well as a cut in VAT for tourism and hospitality activities until the end of March. We are continuing to engage with stakeholders to assess how we can most effectively support tourism’s recovery across the UK.

[Andrew Jones]

Harrogate and Knaresborough is in the top 10% of UK constituencies for hospitality employment. That includes a significant number of teams at B&Bs and guest houses, which are suffering from a lack of international visitors and the closure of the exhibition sector. There is a market that could be developed further to help, and that is domestic tourism. As we emerge from the pandemic and lockdown finishes, what will the Government do to promote domestic tourism?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I know my hon. Friend’s passion for tourism and representing his fantastic constituency. As he knows, we currently need people to stay at home to reduce transmission and to ease the pressure on our NHS, but when holidays are permitted again, we will work with VisitBritain, VisitEngland and local partners, including destination management organisations, to champion the UK’s diverse tourism offer, as we did with the Enjoy Summer Safely and Escape the Everyday campaigns. We will continue to work with the industry to provide guidance and assurance about when people can safely go on holiday, as demonstrated through initiatives such as the “We’re good to go” industry standard mark.

[Selaine Saxby [V]]

With the announcement of new restrictions until 2 December, will the Minister outline the support that will be available to my North Devon tourism and hospitality businesses that are understandably worried about the months ahead?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I appreciate that my hon. Friend is a great advocate for tourism, particularly in her constituency. I am fully aware of how tough the new measures will be for the tourism sector, with businesses having already faced many months of reduced trade. There are significant packages of financial support in place, as the furlough scheme and self-employed support have been extended for the period of lockdown. Many businesses in the hospitality and tourism sector will also receive grants worth up to £3,000 per month under the local restrictions support grant scheme. An additional £1.1 billion is being given to local authorities to help businesses more broadly, such as those severely impacted by restrictions but not actually forced to close.

[Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)]

What steps he is taking to tackle loneliness in winter 2020-21.

--- Later in debate ---

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

What assessment he has made of the effect on health and wellbeing of the closure of (a) swimming pools and (b) gyms during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

Sport and physical activity are incredibly important for our physical and mental health, as well as a vital weapon against coronavirus. That is why we made sure that people could exercise even during the height of the previous lockdown, and we opened up grassroots sport and leisure facilities as soon as it was safe to do so. From today, there are significant restrictions on some sectors of the economy, including the closure of indoor and outdoor leisure. Exercise outdoors, however, will be allowed with our own households, on our own or with one person from another household, which is different from last time. Of course, no Government or Minister wants to see these kinds of restrictions in place, but we believe they are necessary to help to get the R number down and to get the virus under control.

[Cat Smith]

Initiatives such as “Healthier Fleetwood” show that people in the town I represent take seriously the poorer health outcomes that we have in the town and are serious about making a difference, but our swimming pool has been closed since the beginning of the first lockdown and was not reopened when restrictions allowed it to be. Wyre Borough Council and the YMCA, who run it, keep telling me that they are concerned about the level of footfall not being financially viable to reopen the pool. What conversations has the Minister had with Treasury colleagues about financial support for swimming pools in areas of deprivation?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I completely understand the challenges facing many leisure facilities right across the country. Some of them have been able to open, but some have not. Some are open, but we are aware that they are in a precarious financial state. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is working closely with Sport England and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government on the design of a £100 million scheme to help leisure centres and leisure facilities. Further details of this will be released shortly, and once the fund is open, we urge leisure centres to bid for the money and urge people to make the most of these precious facilities.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I want to ask the Minister about the broader issue. Many people in this country wanted the lockdown to come sooner than it has, and perhaps the most compelling cases I have heard come from those who work in the NHS, but those same people know that the NHS cannot by itself make our country fully well. That requires us all to live healthier lives. So while we live through the frustration of closed gyms and swimming pools that have been shut since March, as my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith) has described, will the Minister explain what exactly he has done to write a plan for our country’s wellbeing, starting with explaining, now, precisely what is going to happen on 2 December?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Of course, through Sport England and other bodies, we have provided financial support to the tune of more than £200 million to help facilities during the coronavirus crisis, as well as having a clear plan to open both elite level sport and grassroots sport. Our intention is very much to get back to opening as many sports facilities as possible, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State outlined a few moments ago. None of us wants these measures in place, but we have pressed the pause button. Everybody can make an individual case for a particular sport, but the problem is that if we take individual parts away, the whole thing falls down. We are asking everybody, unfortunately, for this temporary period to make sacrifices and not do some of the things they would love to do, to help to get the virus under control.

Covid-19: Support for Rugby League

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think I heard that quite clearly!

I thank the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) for tabling the topic for this debate, and I thank all those who have participated in it. I certainly noted the gender balance this evening, and it speaks volumes about rugby. I know how deeply she feels about the welfare of this sport and the communities it serves, as we have discussed this matter on many occasions, as indeed have you and I, Mr Speaker. Rugby league clubs such as Castleford Tigers and Warrington Wolves, and others, are at the heart of their local communities and it is vital that they are protected. The Tigers are rightly a source of great pride to the town and bring the whole Castleford community together. May I also take the opportunity to join the right hon. Lady in sending my best wishes for a speedy recovery to the players and others recovering from coronavirus in her community?

I know that Castleford without its rugby team would be unimaginable and that rugby league clubs are vital to their towns right across the country, as the right hon. Lady articulated so eloquently. That is why in May rugby league received a £16 million support package from the Government to safeguard the immediate future of the sport and the communities it serves—that was long before any other support package for any other sport, in recognition of that important contribution. These loans were administered by the Rugby Football League, and we have been working with it and Sport England to ensure that support is provided to those who need it, including the Castleford Tigers. The Government have also supported rugby league through more than £11 million of Sport England funding over the 2017 to 2021 funding period, as well as by investing in hosting the rugby league world cup in 2021, which I know will be a fantastic event—we are all looking forward to it.

The Government recognise the impact that covid-19 is having across the economy and in particular on the sporting sector. Clearly, the Prime Minister’s announcement on Saturday of the new national restrictions, although necessary to prevent the continued spread of the virus, will have further impacts on sport. However, as he announced, elite sport will be able to continue, behind closed doors, over the next four weeks of increased restrictions, and that is further testament to the Government’s support for elite sport. It will not only enable vital broadcast revenue to flow into sports, but ensure that sport continues to bring joy to millions of fans. The month-long extension to the current furlough scheme will benefit clubs that have had to delay the resumption of matches, while ensuring that their talented players and staff are assisted through these challenging times. In addition to the bespoke support for rugby league, Sport England’s community emergency fund has provided £210 million directly to support community sport clubs and exercise centres through this pandemic.

More widely, the Government have, of course, provided an unprecedented support package for businesses, through tax reliefs, cash grants, employee wage support and many other measures, which many sport clubs have benefited from. However, I recognise and acknowledge that, as the right hon. Lady and others have said, sports clubs, and rugby clubs in particular, are about more than just sport. They often rely on many other sources of revenue, and they have been able to take advantage of some but not necessarily all Government support measures.

As the right hon. Lady will be aware, one key area of focus now is supporting organisations in the sporting sector affected by the decision not to allow spectators in from 1 October as originally planned. The Prime Minister announced on 22 September that sporting events would not be able to take place with socially distanced crowds from 1 October as planned. Although that was obviously disappointing, it was necessary in order to stop the spread of covid-19. The Department has been working with colleagues in the Treasury and with the sports sector to assess the scale of support required and the timescales within which it is needed. That has included further work with the RFL to understand the challenges for rugby league as we head into the forthcoming winter. We are working with the Treasury on those proposals now, and we hope to be able to announce the outcome of these discussions shortly.

[Andy Carter]

I pay tribute to the fantastic speech made by the right hon. Member for Castleford Tigers this evening. Like her, I look at the welcome support that the Government have given to rugby league clubs. However, one thing that would be really helpful would be some indication of the criteria under which clubs would be able to welcome back spectators into their grounds. That would help them to plan and think about the future, rather than just considering what they cannot do at the moment.

[Nigel Huddleston]

Of course, we all want to get fans back into stadia as soon as possible, but only when it is safe to do so. I will mention more about that later in my speech and will be happy to have a follow-up conversation with my hon. Friend.

I know that the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford has previously suggested tax breaks and other measures, particularly business rates holidays. I am happy to say that clubs already benefit from a business rate holiday through to March 2021, which should help them through the winter. We are in conversations with the Treasury and others about other measures that she has suggested.

Rugby—both league and the other one—has many, many fans right across the country and many stakeholders, including in this place. I was pleased to learn from the right hon. Lady that my Department and the team there, who work so hard, have been engaging with many organisations and bodies, including the all-party parliamentary group on rugby league and many other Members in this place. As I said, there are many stakeholders. The RFL in particular has been a valued partner of the Government in the application of the guidance and its development, which has enabled the return of elite sporting competition. I am also grateful to the RFL for the successful delivery of the restarted super league behind closed doors, securing broadcast revenue that will benefit the whole game at this challenging time.

As I said before, we know that the decision not to reopen stadia to spectators on 1 October was immensely disappointing, particularly following successful pilots through August and September. I am grateful to the clubs that have piloted the return of spectators so far. Work continues at pace to find solutions that will allow crowds safely back into stadia as soon as possible. The Government will continue to work closely with the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and a whole range of sports to understand the latest thinking that might allow spectators to return. That includes the creation of a new sports technology innovation group of sporting bodies and health experts to analyse new technologies that will support that. Work continues at pace to find solutions that will allow crowds safely back, but spectators will return to stadia only when it is safe to do so. We will keep the situation under continual review.

As the right hon. Lady said, rugby has a rich heritage in its heartlands and a proud history stretching back over 100 years. But as has been mentioned, there is also an exciting future. We know that the importance of the professional game has come into even more focus given that next year’s rugby league world cup is being hosted on these shores, and the Government are firmly committed to delivering a successful world cup tournament in 2021. Next year’s world cup will bring additional significant exposure on free-to-air TV; it will also be the first time that the men’s, women’s and wheelchair tournaments take place at the same time, as the hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) mentioned. It will be a great opportunity to showcase the game and encourage even more people to get involved in this wonderful sport. It will demonstrate to the world, once again, this country’s skill in hosting world class tournaments and events and showcase that Britain is open for business and a bit of fun.

We can but hope that the world cup will be a global celebration of humanity at a time when we trust that the worst of the current crisis will be behind us. Once again, I thank the right hon. Lady for securing this debate tonight, to highlight the importance of rugby league and the vital role that it plays in our communities. I hear, as I am sure does the Treasury, all the requests and points made in this evening’s debate. The support secured already for rugby league was a reflection of the enormous social and economic contribution that rugby league clubs make to their communities; the very real threat to the whole sport earlier this year and indeed currently; and the special circumstances of hosting the 2021 rugby league world cup.

As I have said before, the events of recent months have shown that the impact of sports clubs reaches beyond sport itself; they have proved themselves to be the bedrocks of their communities during this pandemic. We will do what we can to ensure that they continue to be so long into the future.

Question put and agreed to.

10.29 pm

House adjourned.