Public Service Pensions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the reform of public service pensions.

Seven weeks ago I reported to the House that in an effort to secure agreement, the Government were making a new offer to public service workers. Despite some unnecessary interruptions, scheme negotiators have been working hard to reach detailed heads of agreement by the end of the year deadline that we set. It has not been an easy task, but the Government have demonstrated that they will not shy away from taking difficult long-term decisions in the nation’s long-term interest.

We wish to see pensions for public service workers that are fair and sustainable, that provide dignity in retirement, and that are affordable for the workers and for taxpayers. That is why we committed in the coalition agreement to establish an independent commission to bring forward proposals for reform. Lord Hutton’s magisterial report did just that. We have stuck closely to the recommendations of the former Labour Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

The case for reform is self-evident. The average 60-year-old lives longer now than in the 1970s. That means that people are living in retirement for longer. The life expectancy of a 60-year-old was 18 years in the 1970s; that has risen to 28 years today. As a result, the cost of public service pensions has risen to £32 billion a year—an increase of one third over the last 10 years.

We have already made some changes that deal with short-term pressures, including changing the basis of pension uprating to the consumer prices index and increasing member contributions by 3.2 percentage points, phased over three years. Those proposals are unchanged. Next year’s contributions increase is almost identical to that planned by the previous Government. The precise details of next year’s increase have been set out by Departments. All increases are tiered by income to protect the lower-paid. The Government will review the impact of next year’s increases, including on opt-outs and equality, before taking final decisions on how future increases will be delivered. Interested parties will have the opportunity to provide evidence and views to the Government.

I know that many Members of the House will be concerned about the pay and conditions of our armed forces. Let me be clear that members of the armed forces will continue to make no contributions towards their pensions and will be exempt from the increases announced at the spending review.

From the beginning of this process, we have committed to ensuring that public service pension schemes continue to offer a defined benefit pension that is based on the size of the worker’s salary and is not dependent on the market performance of a fund. That is not available to most people in the private sector. From the beginning, we have been clear that all accrued rights will be protected in full, and that the taxpayer needs to be properly protected from the risks associated with further increases in life expectancy by linking the scheme normal pension age to the state pension age. In November, we improved the offer to a 1/60th accrual rate, which is an increase of 8%. That is available only in the event of agreement being reached. We also agreed to protection for those who are 10 years from retirement.

I would like to pay tribute to the Minister for the Cabinet Office, the TUC and the scheme negotiators on both sides for their efforts to reach agreement. I am pleased to report that heads of agreement have now been established with most unions in the local government, health, civil service and teachers’ schemes. It will of course now be for union executives and memberships to decide their response.

The heads of agreement deliver the Government’s key objectives in full, and do so with no new money since our November offer. In future, scheme pension ages will match the state pension age and schemes will be on a career average basis; all the agreements are within the cost ceiling that I set in November, and will save the taxpayer tens of billions of pounds over the decades to come.

Because heads of agreement have been reached, the better offer that I made in November has been secured by trade unions for their members, including the “no change” guarantee for workers 10 years from retirement. The heads of agreement also deliver a number of the key objectives set out by the trade unions during the talks. Negotiations on them are now concluded, and we and the unions agree that this is the best outcome that can be achieved by negotiation. It is the Government’s final position, and we will bring forward legislation to the House in due course.

The full details of the heads of agreement in each scheme are today being set out in written statements by each Department. The key changes made are as follows. In the civil service, we have agreed to revalue each year’s contributions by the consumer prices index rather than earnings, allowing an accrual rate of 1/44th to be offered. That will cost the same as our original offer, but with a configuration preferred by the trade unions. As a consequence, the new scheme will be very similar to the Nuvos scheme that is already available in the civil service, except that in future the normal pension age will be linked to the state pension age as it rises. It is therefore deeply disappointing that the Public and Commercial Services Union has rejected the heads of agreement and walked away from the talks.

I have previously made the point that the local government scheme must be treated differently because it is a funded scheme. The Local Government Association and the trade unions have agreed that the pension age in the new scheme will be linked to the state pension age, and their preference is to deliver a career average scheme. Further discussions will take place over the next three months to agree the details.

In the health scheme, we have agreed to a revised revaluation factor of CPI plus 1.5%, which will allow the accrual rate to be improved to 1/54th. In education, we have agreed to a revised revaluation factor of CPI plus 1.6%, allowing for the accrual rate to be improved to 1/57th, along with modest improvements to early retirement factors. All those heads of agreement are within the cost ceiling that I set out in November, but in a configuration preferred by the unions.

Discussions on police, armed forces, judiciary and fire service schemes have been a separate process from the start, and proposals will be brought forward in due course.

Let me turn to some other aspects of the deals. All the agreements include a cap on taxpayer costs at two percentage points above or below the scheme valuation. That cap is symmetrical, so employees will benefit if costs fall. As Lord Hutton made clear, with the other aspects of reform now agreed there is no reason to believe that, under normal circumstances, that cap will need to be used. It is there as protection for taxpayers and for workers if extraordinary unpredictable events occur.

In the course of the talks, unions have stressed the importance of ensuring that their members will continue to be able to receive the benefits of their scheme if it is outsourced. That is the purpose of the fair deal policy, the future of which we have been consulting on. Because we have agreed to establish new schemes on a career average basis, I can tell the House that we have agreed to retain the fair deal provision and extend access for transferring staff. The new pensions will be substantially more affordable to alternative providers, and it is right that we offer workers continued access to them.

In addition, the Government will consider what practical options might be available to reform the terms of access to the NHS pension scheme, in particular for NHS staff who move to a non-NHS “any qualified provider” delivering NHS services. [Interruption.] That is something that the trade unions have suggested, so hon. Members should keep quiet and listen. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The statement must be heard, and with courtesy.

[Danny Alexander]

Opposition Members never have any answers, so they chunter from the sidelines instead.

At the same time, by offering transferred staff the right to remain members of the public service scheme, we are no longer requiring private, voluntary and social enterprise providers to take on the risks of defined benefit that deter many from bidding for contracts in the first place. Replacing so-called bulk transfers of pensions with continued access to public sector schemes means that we continue to protect public service workers’ pensions, manage the risk to the taxpayer and forge ahead with our ambitious plans for public service reform.

I have made the commitment that these reforms will be sustained for at least 25 years. The Government intend to include provisions on the face of the forthcoming public service pensions Bill to ensure that a high bar is set for future Governments to change the design of the schemes.

What does this deal really mean? For our work force, it means that they will continue to receive the best-quality pensions available in this country—and rightly so. In the private sector, these pensions could be bought only at a cost of one third of salary. This is a proper reward for a lifetime’s commitment to serving the public. The new scheme is fairer to women too. By moving to career average, we will give a better pension in future to those, mainly women, who have low or steady salaries throughout their careers.

The Government have been clear that because we are living longer, public service workers must work a bit longer and pay a little more for their pensions. But in return we have also made an important commitment—that at retirement, those on low and middle incomes will get at least as good a pension as they do now. I can confirm today that we have met that commitment. For people who depend on our public services, it means that most unions will be asking their executives to lift the threat of further strike action while work is done to conclude the final agreement, and I hope that the remaining unions will do the same. For the taxpayer, it means that tens of billions of pounds extra that would have been spent on unreformed pensions over the next 30 years is now available for other pressing demands. These are reforms that significantly improve the long-term fiscal sustainability of this country, and reinforce the credibility of our fiscal stance.

The Office for Budget Responsibility will provide a forecast of the savings in its next fiscal sustainability report. For industrial relations, I believe this shows that it is possible to reach agreement through negotiation in good faith, based on clear objectives. That is the right way to approach relations between government and the trade unions. Sometimes the talks have been difficult, but it has been right to stay at the table. In these difficult times, it is important to show that people can come together to achieve genuine reform, preserving the best of the past, but recognising the realities of the future. This is a fair deal for public service workers, an affordable deal for the taxpayer, and a good deal for the country. I commend this statement to the House.

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

I thank the Chief Secretary for his statement. Families and businesses who rely on public services, as well as the millions of public service workers worried about their finances and their future, will be relieved to see that real progress is finally being made in these talks. Labour has been clear from the beginning that the Government and public service employees would need to find ways of adjusting to the welcome fact that people are living longer. We said in response to the Chief Secretary’s previous statement on 2 November that any resolution to the dispute needed to be fair to taxpayers, fair to public service employees and genuinely sustainable for the long term, and that that would be endangered by a search for quick cash savings or the playing of party political games.

The vast majority of public sector workers, including dinner ladies, community nurses and police community support officers, retire on very modest pensions; moreover, they are already being hit hard by a pay freeze and worried about mounting redundancies. It was clear to us that tearing up decent public service pension schemes or imposing punitive and unaffordable contribution increases would be entirely counter-productive if it resulted in lower savings and inadequate retirement incomes that only left more people retiring into poverty, dependent on state benefits in their old age.

We will be looking at the detail of these proposals on the basis of the tests that we have set out. In particular, can the Chief Secretary offer clarification on the following points? Can he set out the timetable for further consultations and negotiations for each of the four schemes discussed today? When will he come forward with details for the police, armed forces, judiciary and fire service pension schemes? For each scheme, can he give us the new schedules for contribution increases across the schemes, the timetable according to which they will be introduced and how he will ensure fairness and affordability for lower-paid employees, especially those who work part time?

For each scheme, can the Chief Secretary give us the new accrual rates and methodologies for uprating pensions, and say what the timetables for introducing them will be? What assessment has he made of the impact of the changes on the number of public sector employees opting out of the schemes, and the implications of that for future scheme income and viability, as well as future pensioner poverty and the demands on state benefits?

How will the Government ensure that older workers, especially those in physically demanding jobs, are not forced to work beyond a point that would be detrimental to their health, or their ability to do their job? What will the Government do to maintain the morale and engagement of public service employees doing vital work for our country at a time of falling real pay, heightened job insecurity and significant changes to their pensions? Although we are pleased that there is agreement on a fair deal, there is a genuine fear across the public sector that the Government intend to use that deal more as they privatise parts of our NHS and schools, as well as other parts of our public sector. Crucially, how will the Government make good on their promise to deliver a deal that is secure and sustainable for the next 25 years, so that in future we do not face the uncertainty, anxiety and disruption that we have seen over the past year?

The Chief Secretary has made much of Lord Hutton’s review of public sector pensions. We have always said that Lord Hutton’s report provided an important starting point for negotiations, and we have always recognised that change is needed. However, Lord Hutton has also stressed the need to approach these issues in a careful and balanced way, with particular care for the affordability of any additional contributions for lower-paid public service workers, and to avoid fuelling a race to the bottom on pension provision. However, the Government have made it much harder to make progress on many of Lord Hutton’s sensible long-term recommendations by seeking to impose, prior to any negotiations, a steep 3.2% rise in contributions and a permanent switch in the way in which pensions are uprated—from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index—neither of which formed part of Lord Hutton’s recommendations.

However, it is good to see that the Chief Secretary recognises that he needed to do more to address the genuine concerns about his plans over the last 10 months—concerns about the need to do more to protect lower-paid public service employees from unaffordable increases in contributions; about the need to reassure older employees worried about how long they will have to work; and about the need to ensure that people who dedicate their working lives to our public services can expect a decent income in retirement. However, it must be a matter of regret for everyone in this House that it took 10 months of stalemated negotiations and strike action that resulted in closed schools, cancelled operations and disrupted lives for families and businesses around the country, for us to reach this point, just five days before Christmas.

The last Government agreed and established a framework to negotiate reform and manage long-term costs; this Government chose to tear that up and take an aggressive and provocative approach to this serious and sensitive issue. For months the Government have refused to engage in constructive talks to address the issues concerning public service employees, engaging instead in unhelpful megaphone diplomacy. Major changes to public service employees’ current contributions and future security have been announced without warning and imposed without negotiation. Last month’s strikes could and should have been avoided. In short, the Government have displayed negotiating skills similar to those that we saw at the European summit, being more interested in going for the cheap headline than putting in the hard graft necessary to get an agreement that works for everybody.

Clearly the Government still have a lot of work to do over the next few weeks. Ministers and employers will need to clarify the details of their latest proposals, and trade unions will rightly want to inform and consult their members. Reaching a final agreement will be a difficult and delicate process, and we must hope that it is not jeopardised by provocative tactics or inflammatory rhetoric, as we have seen in previous months. We hope that further progress will be made and that early in the new year the Chief Secretary will be able to return to the House and report that a fair and sustainable agreement has been reached, and that we will not see further industrial action. That is what the Opposition want to see, and it is what the country wants to see as well.

[Danny Alexander]

I am not sure that the hon. Lady was listening to anything that I said in my statement, because I have already answered almost all the points that she raised. She certainly seems to have forgotten that this is the season of good will. She said that the Opposition’s position was clear, but she did not say what it was. As she and her party have opposed most of the reforms, perhaps they should have the good grace to admit that they got it wrong. It is no doubt uncomfortable for the Labour party that many of its union paymasters have been willing to come to an agreement in the interests of their members—and, indeed, in the national interest.

Lord Hutton’s contribution was significant; indeed, he is the only Labour Member—or former Labour Member—who has made a contribution. It is worth telling the hon. Lady that he welcomes the deals that we have announced today. She asked a question about the agreement put in place by the previous Government, so let me tell her what Lord Hutton said about that cap and share deal:

“Cap and share cannot take account of the increases in cost of pensions over recent decades because people have been living longer. Also, untested, complex cap and share arrangements cannot of themselves, address the underlying issue of structural reforms, nor significantly reduce current costs to taxpayers.”

That is why we could not rest with the position agreed with the previous Government.

The hon. Lady asked a few questions about the timetable. As I said in my statement, the timetable for reaching heads of agreement is finished. Negotiations on the heads of terms have finished, and as I said in my statement, those heads of terms are agreed by most unions in all schemes. That is a good result, which I hope she would welcome. The other schemes—for the judiciary, armed forces, police and so on—will be agreed in due course. For the firefighters the deadline is 20 January; for the police service the second round of the Winsor report, due at the end of January, will take forward that process.

I think that the hon. Lady still opposes the increase in member pension contributions, but I have to tell her that, as a consequence of today’s announcements, that is continuing. She asked a question about the relationship between accrual rates and revaluation factors. I listed the precise accrual rates and precise revaluation factors for each scheme in my statement; I do not propose to repeat them now, but they will certainly be available in Hansard later. As for older workers, one of the reasons why the trade unions favoured the relationship in question between accrual rates and revaluation is precisely that it works more strongly to the advantage of older workers. We will bring forward legislation, I hope in the next Session, that will include the changes that we want to make to ensure the 25-year guarantee.

The truth about this exchange, as with so many others, is that there are two parties on this side of the House acting in the national interest and one party on the other side that seems to find it increasingly hard to see even its own self-interest. While we on this side of the House are working together to build confidence in the future of the British economy, Labour Members are fighting with each other, as they lose confidence in their own leader. As a result of this statement, at least the hon. Lady can assure the Leader of the Opposition that if he falls on his sword there will be a good pension available to him. All that the British people will see is a party that has not a shred of economic credibility left.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

By far the most important point in this statement—the one that the Chief Secretary touched on only briefly—is that it demonstrates to the markets that the Government will remain committed to sound public finance. Does that not stand in contrast to a number of eurozone countries, not least France, which are finding such measures extremely difficult to implement, and are paying the price in much higher debt service costs?

[Danny Alexander]

I hesitate to enter into any specific diplomatic disagreements of recent weeks, but my hon. Friend makes an essential point. The ability to negotiate such changes strengthens our fiscal credibility as a country, as well as the long-term sustainability of our public finances. To those who want to see that this Government are capable of making changes that reassure the markets and build confidence—not just in the short term, but in the medium term—this agreement is an essential building block. It is one that other European countries have not always been able to achieve—and again, it goes to show that this Government are making the right decisions in the national interest.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Is not the truth of the matter that even with this settlement, public sector workers will pay more, work longer and receive less, that the Government have bullied into submission a number of trade unions, and that those that refused to submit have not walked away from the talks but have been refused access to them? Does the Chief Secretary not accept that his role in all this is to destroy the industrial relations climate in this country, possibly for a generation?

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[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is wrong in everything he says. The fact that a coalition Government of Liberal Democrats and Conservatives have been willing, through a process of painstaking negotiation, to reach agreement with the unions on difficult decisions actually strengthens the industrial relations climate in this country. We now have a good, fair foundation for the relations between the trade unions and the Government; it is a relationship not between paymaster and servant but between two organisations working together to secure the best interests of their members.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm the number of trade unions that have reached agreement, and tell us what will happen to those public sector workers who are in unions that have not reached agreement? Their pensions are clearly under threat.

[Danny Alexander]

I think that there are 28 unions altogether, of which 26 have signed up to the agreement in principle, although it is fair to report that they now need to take the issues back to their members and executives. Unite has reserved its position in a number of areas, and the PCS has refused to sign up, which is deeply disappointing. In the teachers’ scheme, all the unions were present at the discussions and have agreed in principle, although four unions have asked to reserve their position pending sight of the technical annexes that will accompany the heads of agreement.

[Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)]

Has the Chief Secretary made an estimate of the number of people who will opt out of their pension scheme because of the increased contributions, leaving them with no pension cover whatever?

[Danny Alexander]

For anyone who wishes to have a pension, these are among the best pensions available. It would be right for people to stay in their pensions or to join them, and I hope that no Member of the House will encourage anyone to opt out of their pension on the basis of this agreement.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

I congratulate Ministers and the trade union leaders on what is clearly a win for the taxpayer, a win for the public sector workers and a win for the public. This is good news at Christmas, and it gives us the prospect of a much more prosperous and secure new year. May I ask what Ministers will now do to ensure that three key messages get down to the workers, and not just the leaders? They are that this is a better deal for the low paid, for women and for older workers; that this is a secure deal for the next century; and that everyone’s accrued rights are protected. The workers need to understand that, as well as the bosses.

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his words of praise. He makes an important point about the need to get this message across directly to public sector workers. I hope that the unions that have signed up to the heads of agreement, following consultations with their executives in many cases, will now be part of the process of explaining the new deal to their members. The Government will also continue with the efforts, which we started after my statement on 2 November, to communicate directly to nurses, teachers, civil servants and local government workers, so that they understand directly from the Government what the terms of the agreement are.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

In regard to workers who are transferred to another organisation, can the Chief Secretary confirm that their right to stay in their pension scheme will apply to all pension schemes? Will that be time-limited in any way? If the organisation to which they are transferred is taken over or changes ownership, will they still have the right to remain in the public sector pension scheme?

[Danny Alexander]

Yes, they will. I think that I can reassure the hon. Gentleman on all the points that he has made. What we are saying is that we do not want bulk transfers any more, in which the new providers have to set up their own scheme. Instead, the people to whom he refers will continue to be part of the public sector scheme—the NHS scheme, the civil service scheme or whatever—with the new provider, rather than the taxpayer, paying the employer contribution into the scheme. This will create a more secure footing for those people to be on. It is important to be able to give full reassurance to the hon. Gentleman and, through him, to the members of those schemes that he is concerned about.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

I congratulate Ministers and the unions on this excellent settlement, particularly because of the way in which it will benefit the lowest paid and part-time workers, many of whom are women. Will my right hon. Friend tell us how many women are likely to benefit from the settlement? Does he also agree that the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) cannot welcome the proposals because of her union paymasters?

[Danny Alexander]

I cannot give my hon. Friend a precise figure for the number of women workers who will benefit, but about 60% of the public sector work force are female, and all those people will benefit from the terms of the scheme. Unfortunately, women workers tend to be among the lowest paid at the moment, and tend to have steady rather than rapidly rising salaries, but they will particularly benefit from the scheme that we are putting in place under the agreement announced today.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

I hope that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury’s remarks about reaching a settlement through negotiation will not have been lost on his colleagues on the Treasury Bench who were gagging for further industrial action. If he believes that negotiation is the right way forward, will he continue to talk to those unions that still need to resolve important points of detail in the interests of their members?

[Danny Alexander]

No one on the Treasury Bench wanted to see industrial action; in fact, the only people who seemed to welcome it were some of those on the Opposition Benches. Of course, we are talking about heads of agreement, and further fine details within each scheme remain to be resolved over the coming weeks. That process will continue to involve the unions, precisely as the process has done up to now. The agreement on the heads of terms is complete; that process is over, and this is the final position. On the question of the fine details, however, I can give the hon. Gentleman a positive answer.

[Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the hard work that he has put into this process and the unions that have worked so hard to put a deal in place. What message does he have for the PCS union, whose own strike ballot had only a 32.4% turnout and which is now agitating for further strikes?

[Danny Alexander]

The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General tells me that there were 14 meetings in which discussions took place between the civil service employers and unions, and that the general secretary of the PCS did not turn up to any of them. That is a deeply disappointing position to be in. I hope very much that the PCS will rethink its position, because it will not have the support of its members—as that ballot showed—and it will certainly not have the support of the general public if it chooses to inflict further industrial action after an agreement has been reached.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury stop trying to demonise the PCS, and recognise that it is representing its members, which it has a democratic right to do, and that its general secretary has attended a great many meetings? According to the PCS’s calculations, the average civil servant will pay £63 a month more to work for longer to get less. He has twice told the House that billions are being saved, but that can be done only at the expense of hard-working public sector workers. Is he really proud of this?

[Danny Alexander]

I am very proud indeed that we have managed to achieve something that Members on both sides of the House thought would be very difficult, if not impossible, to do—namely, to reach agreement between the Government and many of the trade unions on the long-term reform that is necessary to ensure that public sector workers continue to get the best possible pension schemes long into the future. The previous arrangements were unsustainable, but this one is sustainable, which is why I am confident in offering the House a 25-year guarantee that no party in the House will need to revisit these arrangements over that period.

[Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)]

The Leader of the Opposition claimed recently that the Government were imposing a 3% tax rise on the lowest-paid workers. Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to clarify for my constituents that, under the Government’s offer, the lowest-paid workers will make no extra contribution whatever?

[Danny Alexander]

Yes, I am happy to confirm that. We set out at the beginning that no one earning less than £15,000 should see any contribution increase at all. In fact, through the consultation process, better terms were able to be offered in some cases. In particular, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health was able to offer better terms to lower-paid workers in the health sector. This demonstrates once again this Government’s commitment to supporting the lowest paid in these difficult times.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The 2 million public service staff who took action last month will note that the Government have given no ground on the imposition of a 3% tax grab on their pension contributions. The Chief Secretary has said that the heads of agreement are not the actual agreement, but the basis for further detailed negotiations. What are his deadlines for starting and ending those negotiations, and when will the millions of scheme members who must, in the end, decide on their future have something put in front of them to which they can say yes or no for themselves?

[Danny Alexander]

It is a matter for the trade unions to discuss their individual processes of engagement with their members. We have worked well with many of the trade unions in this process, but that does not extend to my being able to describe their internal processes to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)]

I congratulate everyone who has been involved in reaching the heads of agreement. This will give hard-working public sector workers the certainty that their pensions will remain among some of the very best available. Will my right hon. Friend explain how the move to career-average earnings will benefit women and low-paid workers in particular?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her comments. It is an important point, on which I am glad to have the chance to expand. At the moment, final salary schemes in the public sector work disproportionately to the advantage of people who are highly paid or who see a big increase in their salary at the end of their careers, and the contributions of lower-paid workers subsidise the pensions of the highest paid. On a career average basis, each year’s earnings is what it is and the contribution to be made is treated as what it is; pension is built up year by year on the basis of what people have earned and contributed. That means that each individual’s contributions are valued in a more similar way than they are in the inequitable schemes in place at the moment.

[Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

The underestimation of life expectancy that occurred in the 1970s and the pension holidays of the 1980s put huge pressure on the pensions industry, both public and private. I welcome the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has set a high bar, but as part of that, will he ensure that pension holidays are no longer possible in the invested schemes, as that would mean building in a correction in case we underestimate longevity?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which I am sure will have been heard by the Local Government Association and the local government trade unions as they continue their talks on that scheme. I am not going to set out particular rules at this stage, but he makes an important point about the need to ensure that the schemes continue to be funded to meet future life expectancy.

[Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con)]

I congratulate the Chief Secretary and indeed the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General on the successful negotiations, particularly in respect of the protection for low-paid workers. Is the Chief Secretary as disappointed as I am that the PCS union has not only walked away from this agreement but has continually misled its members by telling them that the Government were not interested in meaningful negotiations. How does that sit with so many other unions that have signed the heads of terms today?

[Danny Alexander]

I do not know quite how disappointed my hon. Friend is, but I am certainly very disappointed in the stance of the PCS. I hope that it will come round in time to seeing this as a beneficial and positive agreement. It is striking that, in the end, other trade unions have looked at the interests of their members and put those first rather than be too worried about the rhetorical position of a small minority of unions.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman now answer the earlier question about the level of opt-out likely to arise from settling these schemes? I am thinking particularly of the local government scheme, which is a funded scheme that will be adversely affected by high levels of opt-out. Will he be clear about what work has been done on this matter and whether there are remaining concerns for trade unions and employees?

[Danny Alexander]

At the start of the process, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast opt-out rates resulting from the contributions increase as being about 1% of pay bill. Of course, because the local government scheme is a funded scheme, one thing we are allowing is that savings delivered by long-term reform, such as increasing the retirement age or moving to a career-average basis, can be used to cover the cost of some of the contribution increases. It is therefore possible that once the final local government scheme is put in place, local government workers will face little or no contribution increase because they are in a funded scheme.

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

For purposes of comparison, what estimate has my right hon. Friend made of the proportion of new starters in the private sector who can look forward to a defined benefit scheme?

[Danny Alexander]

The number of new starters in the private sector who can look forward to a defined benefit scheme is very small. The number of open defined benefit schemes is decreasing, but that should not deflect us from our wish to continue to provide defined benefit pensions in the public sector, which are a right and proper part of the reward for a lifetime’s commitment to serving the public.

[Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)]

The Chief Secretary said of the civil service scheme: “It is disappointing that the PCS and Unite have not supported the heads of agreement and walked away from the talks”. Some might argue that they had been excluded. Be that as it may, he made a virtue of staying at the table, so what is he going to do to re-engage with Unite and the PCS to avoid giving the impression that it is his Government who are simply spoiling for a fight?

--- Later in debate ---

[Danny Alexander]

I would have welcomed from the Scottish National party—as from the Labour Front-Bench team—a recognition that opposition to these reforms was wrong and a welcome of the fact that we have reached agreement. Sadly, Salmond and Serwotka are the duo who continue to reject public service pension reform. The position of Unite is more nuanced, as it has signed up to the agreement in the local government sector and reserved its position on the health sector, pending consultation with some of its lay members. If that proves to be positive, the union would be welcome back at the negotiating table.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

An inflation-proof pension of £20,000 a year taken at the age of 67 would cost about £500,000 to purchase on the open market, yet the average pot in the private sector is about £30,000 for those people who have any provision at all. This difference is exacerbated by the charging structure in the UK fund management industry, which cripples private provision. Now that the Chief Secretary has more time on his hands, having concluded these negotiations, will he address this issue with colleagues because it is a disgrace?

[Danny Alexander]

I am not sure that I would accept the description of having time on my hands. The hon. Gentleman’s point is a serious one, however, particularly on the charging structure. This has been looked at by the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb) in the context of the new National Employment Savings Trust scheme, and the Financial Secretary has been considering it. If we can find things to help reduce those costs, we will certainly go ahead with them.

[Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)]

The truth is that this Government are indulging in a race to the bottom on pensions. The fact is that the 11% of private sector workers currently in a defined benefit scheme will find pressure being brought to bear to reduce the benefits of those schemes as a result of the Minister’s forcing down of public sector pensions. Will he tell the House how it can possibly be in the national interest to force more pensioners into poverty, resulting in hundreds of thousands if not millions of pensioners in the future having to rely on means-tested benefits?

[Danny Alexander]

I have to say that that is the most shameful scaremongering about what we are offering that I have heard. What we are offering public service workers are the best pensions available to any work force in the country. Most public service workers will continue to have a very good pension in retirement. People on low and middle incomes will in most cases receive a better pension at their retirement age than they could under the current schemes. I hope that, on reflection, the hon. Gentleman will join us in explaining and selling this deal to the many hard-working public servants in his constituency rather than misrepresenting it.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Given that Lord Hutton has said that it is “hard to imagine” a better offer than the “generous” one put forward by the Government, has my right hon. Friend received any imaginative proposals from the shadow Chief Secretary about public pension reform or indeed about how she would pay for it?

[Danny Alexander]

Sadly, the answer to that question is that no such proposals whatsoever have been received.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

I am disappointed that despite a number of written questions from me and the questions put today, the Chief Secretary cannot do better than the OBR estimate of 1% of the pay bill in respect of reduced contributions. In his statement, however, he said that the Government would “review the impact of next year’s increases, including on opt-outs and equality”. Does that mean he will tell us in a report to the House about the impact of these changes on equality so that we can know whether or not his confidence that this is a good deal for women is true?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for picking up on that point. We will certainly look at the impact on opt-outs of the first year’s contribution increase. That will allow us to make adjustments to how we deliver the increase in years 2 and 3. I will be happy to share the relevant evidence in an appropriate form, perhaps in a statement or debate in the House.

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

In light of the hard-line position taken by the PCS union, what indication has my right hon. Friend had that it is serious about pension reform and will come back and sit at the negotiating table?

[Danny Alexander]

I am not sure that I have had any such indications so far, but I would, of course, welcome them if they came in the future?

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary will be aware of the demanding and dangerous job done by prison officers up and down this country. Will he clarify the state of negotiations with the Prison Officers Association on the normal pension age for prison officers in the context of the difficult and important job they do?

[Danny Alexander]

I join the hon. Gentleman in expressing gratitude for the hard work that prison officers do for the country, and in recognising the physically demanding nature of some of that work. There is a specific outstanding issue in the arrangements relating to mechanisms allowing prison officers to retire before reaching the state pension age, and we are continuing to engage in discussions with the Prison Officers Association to deal with precisely the point that the hon. Gentleman has made.

[John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

Should not something be done about the destructive polarisation of the public and private sectors that this issue encourages?

[Danny Alexander]

I agree that, while we are securing very good pensions for public service workers, we must not neglect the fact that many millions of private sector workers have no pension provision at all. That is what the NEST scheme is intended to address. The opt-in arrangement for a new basic pension scheme, which will be rolled out over the next five or six years, will enable those millions in the private sector who currently have no provision to build some up for themselves. I hope that, in due course, my hon. Friend will join us in promoting that scheme to constituents.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

Would not the negotiations have proceeded more quickly and smoothly had the Chief Secretary’s party not colluded in the constant denigration of public sector workers, and the setting of one group against the other? The Chief Secretary is still doing that today in seeking to create a huge divide between public and private sector workers, and to make one group envious of the other.

[Danny Alexander]

Opposition Members seem to be making increasingly desperate attempts to find new ways of saying that they do not agree with what we have offered. It would be simpler for them to say that they welcome the agreements that we have reached in many areas.

I said in my statement, but will happily repeat for the hon. Lady’s benefit, that the contribution made to the country by public service workers such as teachers, civil servants, nurses, local government workers, firefighters and prison officers is enormously important. That is why one of the Government’s objectives has been to ensure that they continue to receive better pension provision than any other work force in the country, which is absolutely right. I hope that, on reflection, she will choose to welcome that.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that following these reforms, lower-paid nurses, teachers and civil servants will no longer subsidise the pensions of chief executives, permanent secretaries and the like?

[Danny Alexander]

I entirely agree. That is one of the abiding reasons why both the hon. Lady’s party and mine have sought to reform public service pensions for many years. As a result of the inequities in the current system, the contributions of hard-pressed low-income workers subsidise the pensions of the wealthiest public service workers. The new deals will mean that that will no longer happen.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

Large increases in pension contributions combined with a continuing pay freeze will lead to a severe squeeze on living standards for nurses, teachers and other public service workers. What impact will that squeeze have on the wider economy, particularly in regions where there is a high proportion of public service employment?

[Danny Alexander]

There is a squeeze on living standards and, indeed, on our economy for a combination of reasons, including the crisis in the eurozone and the catastrophic mess that the hon. Lady’s party made of the economy. I think she should start by admitting that.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

I congratulate the Chief Secretary on reaching an agreement. The last thing that any of us want is a regular five-yearly salami slicing of public sector pensions. What aspects of the deal will make it future-proof over the 25-year period to which he has referred?

--- Later in debate ---

[Danny Alexander]

That is an extremely good point. Under the earlier cap and share arrangement, there would have been a three-yearly salami slicing of pensions: every three years, public service workers would face the prospect of increases in their contributions and reductions in their benefits. The principal feature of the new scheme, which protects them from that prospect, is the link between the normal pension age and the state pension age. As the state pension age rises, so will the retirement age for public service workers. That arrangement, which Lord Hutton recommended, is the best and simplest way of protecting public service schemes from the longevity risk in the future, which is why those schemes are fundamentally sustainable.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman said that agreement had largely been reached in the negotiations, and that it would now be referred to trade union executives and, perhaps, individual members, through a ballot. Does he agree that, according to the democratic process, those individual members have as much right to reject the offer as to accept it, and will he tell us what attitude the Government would adopt to such a rejection?

[Danny Alexander]

Members of trade unions do indeed have that right, and it will be for the unions to decide their individual processes. I made clear in my statement that the negotiations on the heads of terms had been completed, that this was the Government’s final position, and that we were proceeding to draft legislation on that basis.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Most of my constituents will never have access to a public sector pension, and if they have any private sector pension provision, it is likely to be neither guaranteed nor linked to inflation. Given that the cost of public sector pensions is now £32 billion a year and has increased by a third over the last 10 years, should not the agreement be warmly welcomed? Without it, we would leave a huge pension liability to be paid off by our children and grandchildren in the future.

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman has described the position precisely. Over the next 20 or 30 years, the agreement will save taxpayers, including his constituents, tens of billions of pounds which it will be possible to use for other purposes. I recognise that many of his constituents in the private sector do not have access to pension provision, and I hope that that problem can be addressed, not least by means of the NEST scheme.

[Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)]

Will the Government take steps to veto any agreements that may be made between the trade unions and the Scottish Government?

[Danny Alexander]

I hesitate to use the word “veto” at the Dispatch Box, even in answer to the hon. Lady’s tempting question. It is traditional for Scottish schemes to proceed by analogy with our United Kingdom schemes. I hope that that will continue, and that the intransigent opposition of the Scottish Government to any pension reform will cease. Of course, as with contributions, if the Scottish Government choose to proceed differently they will have to bear the cost.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

This excellent deputy Chancellor is very self-effacing, but he has achieved a considerable feat in bringing the negotiations to a successful conclusion. Does he agree with the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), that what he did in putting the national interest first should be considered equivalent to what the Prime Minister did in Europe?

[Danny Alexander]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that comment. Over the last few months, I have sometimes felt less like a Chief Secretary than a chief negotiator. I certainly think that, in this as in every other aspect of our policy, the Government as a whole have indeed put the national interest first.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Will the Chief Secretary specify the actuarial reductions involved in all four pension schemes? Have they changed? What will the consequences be for shift-working public sector employees, whose life expectancy does not generally match the national average, if they opt out of schemes?

[Danny Alexander]

The actuarial factors have not changed. Early retirement pensions will still be calculated on an actuarially fair basis, although of course that in itself changes over time according to the actuarial assumptions. The only exception is the teachers’ scheme. There has been discussion about modest enhancements to early retirement factors at the cost of the accrual rate for retirement ages over 65, as and when the state pension age exceeds 65. The teaching unions made that a priority in their negotiations, and we have chosen to agree with them.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I hope the Chief Secretary is beginning to realise that the very thing that is likely to destabilise some pension funds is the decision of members to opt out of them.

The right hon. Gentleman has made great play of the position of the PCS and that of my own trade union, Unite, but has made very few comments about the Prison Officers Association, except when the issue was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont). The Chief Secretary said that two unions had not signed the formal heads of agreement. Will he confirm that the POA has not signed it?

[Danny Alexander]

I interpret the position of the Prison Officers Association more positively, which is why I did not mention the association in my statement. However, as I said to the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont), who is no longer present, there is a specific outstanding issue in the arrangements relating to mechanisms allowing prison officers to retire before reaching the state pension age, and we are continuing to engage in discussions with the Prison Officers Association.

I bow to none in my respect for the work of prison officers. I think it right for my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General to continue to engage in those discussions, because this issue is both important and specific to that particular work force.

RDEL Revisions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2011 Written Statements

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The autumn statement announced that public sector pay awards will average 1 % for each of the two years following the end of the current pay freeze, and that departmental budgets will be adjusted in line with this policy.

The pay policy will be applied to health, schools, and international development, but the savings will be recycled within existing budgets.

Departmental resource DEL budgets (excluding depreciation) will adjusted by the following amounts:

Rural Fuel Rebate Pilot Scheme

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Friday 25th November 2011 Written Statements

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

I am today announcing that the Government have secured EU clearance for a rural fuel rebate pilot scheme. The scheme will apply a 5p per litre discount on petrol and diesel in the Inner and Outer Hebrides, Northern Isles, the islands in the Clyde and the Isles of Scilly.

The scheme will provide much-needed relief to these remote island communities. Pump prices in these areas are particularly high due to the high costs of transporting and distributing fuel.

The Government intend to introduce a retailer-based scheme. Registered retailers will be required to reduce their selling prices of road diesel and petrol by 5ppl. Retailers will claim a 5ppl rebate on the fuel they purchase, by submitting a monthly claim to HMRC.

To support retailers in covering the initial costs of the scheme HMRC will provide an up-front rebate. From 1 January 2012, retailers will be allowed to claim a 5ppl refund on fuel purchased in each of their first two months in the scheme without having to pass on the discount to customers. Following this, retailers will then be required to fully pass on the 5ppl discount. This design will ensure that there are no adverse cash-flow problems for the retailers and that from 1 March 2012 motorists will benefit from a 5ppl reduction in pump prices.

HMRC have today published the draft legislation for the pilot scheme.

Public Service Pensions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

I wish to update the House on progress in the reform of public service pensions and to set out the new offer that we have made as we seek to bring this issue to a conclusion by the end of the year. Our objective is to put in place new schemes that are affordable and fair for taxpayers and public service workers, and that can be sustained for decades to come. That is not easy, but it is the right thing to do and I recognise that this is a contentious area.

Public service workers deserve a good pension in retirement as a fair reward for a lifetime spent serving the public. That is why in June last year, the Chancellor commissioned Lord Hutton, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in the previous Government, to take an impartial, dispassionate look at this issue and to bring forward proposals for reform. His landmark report has set the terms of the debate and I am sure that the whole House will share my gratitude for his work.

Lord Hutton’s interim report found that there was a clear justification, based on the past cost increases borne by the taxpayer, for an increase in member contributions. We accepted that recommendation, and increases in member contributions will take place starting next year, although next year’s increase merely reflects the increase already planned by the previous Government. In his final report, he set out a blueprint for a new landscape of public service pensions based on retaining defined benefit schemes, but moving to a fairer career average basis, and increasing the retirement age in line with the state pension age to protect the taxpayer against future increases in life expectancy.

We accepted Lord Hutton’s recommendations in full as a basis for consultation and we have been discussing the recommendations with the trade unions. Those discussions started in February and are still going on. Despite some of the public comment, significant progress has been made. I pay tribute to the Minister for the Cabinet Office and the general secretary of the TUC for their tireless work to reach common ground on reform.

The trade unions have welcomed many of the commitments that we made at the start of this process, including that public sector schemes will remain as defined benefit schemes, with a guaranteed amount provided in retirement, and that all accrued rights will be protected. Everything that public servants have earned until the point of change, they will keep, and those things will be paid out in the terms expected and at the retirement age expected. Final salary means just that: a person’s accrued rights will be based on their final salary not at the point of change, but when their career ends or they choose to leave the scheme. No public sector worker needs to have anything to fear for the entitlements that they have already built up.

We have also reached agreement on the importance of transparency, equality impacts, participation rates and opt-outs, scheme governance, and high level principles to inform consultations on scheme-level pensions. However, the central issue of the value of new schemes remains to be agreed. I believe that two aims need to be met. First, for most low and middle income workers, the new schemes should generate an income at retirement that is at least as good as the amount that they receive now. Secondly, the taxpayer needs to be properly protected from the risks associated with further increases in life expectancy, by linking the scheme normal pension age to state pension age.

In early October, we set cost ceilings to meet those tests. Those cost ceilings are based on Lord Hutton’s recommendations and generate an accrual rate of 1/65th for the new schemes. Scheme-by-scheme discussions have been taking place on that basis since the beginning of October. Although the talks have been productive, trade unions and Ministers have given consistent feedback about what they think needs to change. Last week, the Minister for the Cabinet Office and I met the TUC negotiating team, who pressed for a more generous cost ceiling and explicit protections for those workers nearest to retirement. I have received similar feedback from the Secretary of State for Education and the Secretary of State for Health.

Having listened to those views, I have decided to revise the Government’s offer. Cabinet discussed these matters yesterday, and I met the TUC this morning to set out the terms of our new offer. The offer increases the cost ceiling and provides for generous transitional arrangements for those closest to retirement. I have made available to Members today a document that sets out the detail. This generous offer should be more than sufficient to allow agreement to be reached with the unions, but it is conditional upon agreement being reached. I hope that on the basis of this offer, the trade unions will devote their energy to reaching agreement and not to unnecessary and damaging strike action. In that way, the offer can inform the scheme-by-scheme talks that will continue until the end of the year. Of course, if agreement cannot be reached, we may need to revisit our proposals and consider whether the enhancements remain appropriate.

I can announce today that I have decided to offer an increase to the cost ceiling. Future schemes will now be based on a pension to the value of l/60th of average salary, accruing for each year worked. That is an 8% increase on the previous offer. I will give the House some examples of what that means. A teacher with a lifetime in public service and a salary at retirement of £37,800 would receive £25,200 each year under these proposals, rather than the £19,100 that they would currently earn in the final salary teachers’ pension scheme. A nurse with a lifetime in public service and a salary at retirement of £34,200 would receive £22,800 of pension each year if these reforms were introduced, whereas under the current 1995 NHS pension scheme arrangements they would only get £17,300.

Pensions would remain considerably better than those available in the private sector. To earn the equivalent pension in the private sector, the teacher retiring on £37,000 would need a pension pot of around £675,000, and the nurse retiring on £34,200, a pot of £600,000. Both would require an annual contribution of around a third of salary.

In addition, I have listened to the argument that those closest to retirement should not have to face any change at all. That is the approach that has been taken over the years in relation to increases to the state pension age, and I think it is fair to apply that here too. I can also announce that scheme negotiations will be given the flexibility, outside the cost ceiling, to deliver protection so that no one within 10 years of retirement will see any change in when they can retire or any decrease in the amount of pension they receive. Anyone 10 years or less from retirement age on 1 April 2012 can be assured that there will be no detriment to their retirement income.

We need to be clear about the backdrop against which this offer is made. I fully understand that families across the country are feeling financial pressure right now. These are unprecedented and tough economic times. But reform is essential because the costs of public service pensions have risen dramatically over the last few decades. The bottom line is that we are all living longer. The average 60-year-old today is living 10 years longer now than they did in the 1970s. That is a remarkable and welcome achievement, but it also means that people are living in retirement longer and claiming their pension for longer. As a result, the costs of public service pensions have risen to £32 billion a year, an increase of a third in the last 10 years. While they accounted for just under 1% of GDP in 1970, they account for around 2% of GDP today—more than we spend in total on police, prisons and the courts. And for the most part, it has not been the public service workers footing the bill, but the general taxpayer. We have to reform to ensure that the costs of pensions are sustainable in the long term and to ensure that costs and risks are fairly shared between employees and employers.

I believe this package is affordable. I believe it is also fair to public service workers, and delivers significant long-term savings to taxpayers who will continue to make a significant contribution to these pensions. If reform along these lines is agreed, I believe that we will have a deal that can endure for at least 25 years and hopefully longer. People are living longer, so public service pension reform is inevitable. But we have listened to the concerns of public sector workers and come up with a deal that is fair and affordable. The lowest paid and people 10 years from retirement will be protected, and public service pensions will still be among the very best available.

If reform of this sort is agreed, then no party in this House will need to seek further reform of the overall package. This sustainability is an important prize. I hope that the trade unions will now grasp the opportunity that this new offer represents. I also hope that the Labour party will do the right thing, put party politics aside, and support the proposals, which—after all—came from John Hutton, in the interests of securing a long term consensus on the future of public service pensions. It is the chance of a lifetime to secure good, high quality, and fair public service pensions.

Yes, we are asking public service workers to contribute more. Yes, we are asking them to work longer, along with the rest of society, but we are offering the chance of a significantly better pension at the end of it for many low and middle income earners. It will be a fairer pension, so that low income workers stop subsidising pensions for the highest earners. It will be a sustainable deal that will endure for at least 25 years, and an affordable deal that will ensure that taxpayers are asked to make a sensible contribution, but will keep costs sustainable and under proper control. That is the new offer I am putting on the table today; it is an offer that the Opposition should support and the unions should agree to and I commend this statement to the House.

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

I thank the Chief Secretary for his statement and for advance notice of it. I welcome today’s signal that the Government are now willing to enter into proper discussions. That is a welcome change from the months of Treasury and Cabinet Office intransigence that came before.

Too often in recent months it has appeared that the Government have not understood that strikes are a sign of failure on both sides. Let us be clear: it was this Government’s decision to rip up the framework established by the last Labour Government and to go much further much faster. In particular, it was the Chancellor’s decision to pre-empt Lord Hutton and impose a 3% surcharge for all employees announced in the spending review last year, before negotiations had even begun. That decision suggested that rather than negotiating in good faith, the Government were intent on acting unilaterally and so provoking confrontation. It is good news, therefore, that the Government have at last made a constructive move to begin proper discussions.

Let me be clear: no one wants strike action. The Government and the unions have a duty to show that they have exhausted every possible avenue. Our focus is on those who rely on services that would be affected by strikes—from parents who will have to take a day off work to those who rely on home help. However, public sector workers—nurses, teachers and dinner ladies—also care too much about the people they serve day in, day out to consider action as anything other than a last resort, yet those who work in front-line public services are also desperately worried about their future and about whether they will be able to afford retirement. It is for the Government to ensure, therefore, that change is agreed and delivered in a way that brings with them the nurses, teachers, home helps and dinner ladies affected by the changes.

It is welcome that the Government have now recognised that announcing tactical offers on the airwaves, rather than constructive proposals in proper negotiations, is not the right way to proceed. However, I would suggest three key tests for a fair agreement. First, on affordability, do the changes deliver a fair deal for taxpayers when times are tough, taxes are rising and spending is being cut? Secondly, on fairness, do they deliver a fair deal for public sector workers on low and middle incomes, whose pensions are far from gold-plated and who have given so much to the services in which they work? Thirdly, on sustainability, do the changes deliver a workable settlement for the long term that does not undermine the sustainability of existing schemes and which can be flexible in the face of rising life expectancy? That is how we will judge the outcome of the negotiations.

To meet those tests, it has always been clear that public sector workers will need to accept higher contributions on average and, given that people are living longer, an increase in the retirement age, too. That was fundamental to the arrangements put in place by the previous Government for capping the Government’s contributions and then, as costs rose, negotiating how to increase workers’ contributions or change entitlements. Equally, however, the Government have to accept that for many low-paid staff, their pension is the only means of security in retirement. In a time of pay freezes, sharp increases in contributions risk hardship today and increased levels of opt-out, pushing up pensioner poverty in the future, which is why we have been critical of the confrontational stance taken by the Government and of the rush to early industrial action in June.

We will see in the coming days whether these moves are sufficient to restore the much-needed trust in these discussions that could ensure that, even at this late stage, there is still time for both sides to step back from the brink. We must all study the detail of what is now on the table, but on affordability will the Chief Secretary set out the cost of these concessions to the public purse? As he rightly sets out the transitional protections for workers in their 50s and tapering arrangements for those in their late-40s, can he say whether both these additional costs will have to be made by savings elsewhere in the system? On fairness, can he confirm that the proposed increase in contributions, if applied across the board, would still mean an increase in contributions for low-paid and part-time workers earning less than £15,000 a year? Have the Government assessed the impact of the pay freeze on opt-out rates from public sector pension schemes to date?

On sustainability, has an assessment been made of the impact of the 3% increase in contributions proposed from April and of whether increased drop-out rates could affect the viability of funded schemes, such as the local government scheme? Is it the Chief Secretary’s intention that those affected as a result of the settlement will have the certainty of knowing that there will be no further changes for 25 years? How will he deliver on that commitment? Will he give the House a timetable for discussions over the next eight weeks, given his aim to secure agreement by the end of the year? I hope that he can reassure taxpayers and public sector workers—teachers, the police, home helps and others—on those points. The Government must leave no stone unturned in their negotiations to seek a genuinely sustainable agreement that is fair for public sector workers and taxpayers, and avoids a strike this autumn.

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her response, although she left a few questions unanswered herself, which I shall come to.

On proper discussions, I reject what she said about the Government’s stance. Talks have been going on constructively for the last eight months. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and I have spent many, many hours in those discussions, and if the hon. Lady talked to the trade unions, she would discover that they, too, see them as constructive. She also referred to the previous Government’s cap and share arrangement. Let me tell her what Lord Hutton said about it in his report:

“Cap and share cannot take account of the increases in cost of pensions over recent decades because people have been living longer. Also, untested, complex cap and share arrangements cannot of themselves, address the underlying issue of structural reforms, nor significantly reduce current costs to taxpayers.”

In other words, the previous Government’s arrangements were simply not good enough at controlling the costs in the way we need to.

The hon. Lady asked me several questions; let me address them directly. As I said in my statement, transitional protections and tapering are outside the cost ceiling, so they will not be met at the expense of other arrangements, which may be negotiated on a scheme-by-scheme basis. On contributions, there was an assumption, audited by the Office for Budget Responsibility, about the impact that 1% of pay bill would have on opt-out rates, which I accept. We are engaged in a separate track of negotiations with the local government pension scheme—which the hon. Lady also mentioned—precisely in recognition of the fact that it is a funded scheme and that therefore different considerations apply.

On affordability—the first of the hon. Lady’s three tests—let me tell her that, yes, the changes are affordable. Her test is met. This test ensures—[Interruption.] Opposition Front Benchers are saying, “Part-time workers?” The contributions increase has been set out. We have ensured, on a scheme-by-scheme basis, that the contributions will be tiered according to income. Those earning less than £15,000 a year on a full-time equivalent basis will have zero—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) likes to hector from a sedentary position. Instead of being the shadow chunterer, perhaps he will sit there and listen. We have made it clear that those earning up to £21,000 on a full-time equivalent basis will have a reduction. The full-time equivalent basis for pension reform is the basis—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There was quite a lot of chuntering earlier when the shadow Chief Secretary was speaking, and that should not happen. Those on the Opposition Front Bench have had their go, and I am afraid that they cannot pursue the debate again from a sedentary position. Let us hear the Chief Secretary. The House knows that I will allow plenty of time for questions, so we need not get aerated about it.

[Danny Alexander]

The full-time equivalent basis for pension reform is being approached in exactly the same way that the previous Government treated it. The hon. Lady’s tests for affordability, fairness and a workable settlement are all met. She did not say, in the end, whether she supported the deal on the table to date. It is incumbent on the Opposition to understand the deal and support it. It is also incumbent on them to make clear their position on strike action. I hope that she agrees with me that, in light of the new offer and the constructive approach taken to the negotiations, she should not support trade unions going ahead with strike action later this month.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

I welcome the extensive work that has gone into these proposals and would like to ask a question specific to my constituency and many others. Many teachers in my constituency work in the state sector, but over their careers they will often spend periods in the independent sector too. Will the proposals continue to allow inter-changeability between the two sectors?

[Danny Alexander]

If agreement is reached, they will. The arrangements that the hon. Lady describes are an important part of the discussions, but they depend on reaching a sustainable agreement on the future of public service pensions along the lines I have set out.

[Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)]

I look forward to studying the proposals, because with pensions the devil is always in the detail. I have spoken to public sector workers, and the two things that they are most concerned about—and which might have encouraged them to vote for strike action at the end of November—are the large increase in individual contributions, on top of what they already contribute, and the move from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index. I did not hear from the Chief Secretary’s statement whether those two things remain in place, which would be a disappointment to public sector workers.

[Danny Alexander]

Those two things do remain in place. I understood from a previous debate that the Opposition supported the switch from RPI to CPI. We are going ahead with the increase in member contributions, which, as Lord Hutton said in his interim report, is necessary to rebalance the substantial increase in costs over the past few decades, which have been borne almost entirely by the taxpayer. Around the table with the trade union negotiators, the main issues raised in recent weeks have been the accrual rate, the transitional arrangements and the guarantee that we are reaching a long-term settlement.

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

I welcome the Chief Secretary’s statement. On many occasions in Bracknell and Finchampstead, I have met people in their 30s and 40s employed in the private sector—the majority of people in my constituency are employed in the private sector. Can he confirm that many in the public sector would have to contribute a third of their salary and pension contributions in order to get similar pensions in the private sector?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: I can confirm that that would be the case. In some cases the figure would be more, depending on how the scheme-by-scheme talks that will go forward resolve the issue. In order to acquire a pension of the sort that we are rightly talking about for public sector workers, people in the private sector would need to acquire a pension pot of £500,000 or more, which would require a substantial salary contribution, of the order of a third.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary made much of preserving accrued rights. However, to return to the CPI and RPI, what will the average loss be to public sector workers of making the switch permanent?

[Danny Alexander]

I think the hon. Lady may have been trying to welcome the protection of accrued rights, in which case I am grateful for her comments. She is right that the switch from RPI is a change to public service pensions that will reduce the benefits over the long term, although that will depend on the scheme and the individual involved. However, it is the right thing to do, because we are talking about the measure of inflation used by the Bank of England to set rates. The answer to the hon. Lady’s question will depend on the individual scheme and the individual person.

[Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD)]

Both the Liberal Democrat manifesto, which my right hon. Friend authored, and the coalition agreement committed the Government to an independent review of pensions, and one cannot get more independent than the former Labour Secretary of State, Lord Hutton. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that what he has set out today is more generous to future pensioners and current employees than Lord Hutton recommended, while maintaining fairness for the taxpayer?

--- Later in debate ---

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to celebrate Lord Hutton’s independence in this matter. It is a measure of the Opposition’s lack of interest in the subject that they have not even asked for the statement to be repeated in the House of Lords, so that Members there can hear directly from Lord Hutton. He did not recommend a level of adequacy, but he did say that the floor threshold should be the adequacy rates set out by Adair Turner. The offer that I am announcing today is 40% more generous than those floor adequacy rates.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Is it not true that the vast majority of public servants will still be paying more and working longer, and that a significant number will still lose out? The protections for the lower-paid will not affect trained firefighters, trained teachers or trained doctors, or many other public servants. The accrued rights that the right hon. Gentleman has offered are actually a legal duty, and he will exacerbate the industrial relations climate by making an offer, but at the same time threatening to take it off the table.

[Danny Alexander]

I know that the hon. Gentleman has taken a long interest in these matters, but he is wrong in his characterisation. He is of course right that we are asking public sector workers to work longer, to set the normal pension age in line with the state pension age, but frankly that is happening to every single person in this country. Public sector workers cannot be immune from that trend any more than anyone else. He mentioned firefighters. Let me say that good discussions are taking place on the firefighters’ pension scheme. We have delayed setting a cost ceiling to take account of all the factors in the firefighters’ pension scheme, particularly the double accrual.

[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

May I welcome today’s statement and pass on the comments made to me by teachers in South Derbyshire in both the private sector and the public sector? It is important that accrued rights remain and that it is easy to move between the two areas, because the private sector is very strong indeed in Derbyshire.

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful for those comments. It is important that teachers, health workers and civil servants study for themselves what the Government are offering. There has been a great deal of misinformation around this debate. We are setting out a document today that describes the position in detail. A new website, too, will be available for public sector workers to see precisely what it might mean for them. I hope those people will seek to form their own opinion of what the Government are offering.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Will the Chief Secretary clarify one comment he made in his statement, when he said that the offer is conditional upon reaching agreement? Does that imply that any industrial action taken anywhere by any trade union member will mean the offer being withdrawn?

[Danny Alexander]

No, this is not conditional on industrial action. Some unions are saying that they are planning strikes on 30 November. Talks on a scheme-by-scheme basis will still be going on at that time. I hope that those unions will feel that, on the basis of this offer, they no longer need to go ahead with that action. I think that would be a constructive response to what I have set out today. The offer is conditional upon an agreement being reached—an agreement by the end of the year on the heads of terms on a scheme-by-scheme basis. It is appropriate that we set out a good offer; as a Government, we want to reach agreement, but at the end of the day the trade unions need to want that, too.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

May I commend my right hon. Friend for his statement and for the tone in which he has delivered it—and, indeed, commend my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General? Will the Chief Secretary welcome the notes of conciliation in the response by Her Majesty’s official Opposition? Although our politics does not lend itself to consensus, is this not a subject on which we wish to reach a broad consensus both for the well-being of public sector pensions and for the country and economy as a whole?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his welcome and I agree wholeheartedly with his comments. It is precisely the sort of subject on which there should be a cross-party consensus. I think a consensus could be formed around the proposals we have made today. The shadow Chief Secretary says that she wishes to study our proposals. That is fair enough, but I hope that she will see on reflection that the proposals we are putting forward are the right way to go forward on public service pensions both for public sector workers, who are fully entitled to a proper and decent pension, and for the taxpayer as a whole.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister agree that the statement consisted of sacrificing long-term pension rights to pay for a short-term failure to stimulate economic growth? What we are seeing, after 13 years of industrial peace, is the return of mass strike action due to Tory economic failure and a threatening, macho approach to negotiation. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It would be more seemly if the hon. Gentleman were not standing with his hand in his pocket, but I must say to the Education Secretary that he really should not keep on expostulating noisily from a sedentary position. If he were to do that in one of the nation’s classrooms, he would be in detention by now.

[Danny Alexander]

The Education Secretary’s noisy expostulations have been thoroughly in support of what the Government are doing; as such, I welcome them. I think that the tone struck by the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) is entirely out of keeping with the tone of the debate so far. For all the reasons I have given, reform of public sector pensions is necessary. It is important that we get it right and that we do so by agreement if we can. That is this Government’s objective.

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

I share the disappointment at the rather lukewarm response on the Labour Benches. May I ask my right hon. Friend to stress to the unions that this is not the opening salvo in further negotiations, so they really should take this as a realistic opportunity to come up with a long-term solution for the 25-year period that would be best for the taxpayer? I sincerely hope that the unions take that in the spirit in which it is intended so that we do not have industrial action over the winter.

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments. I sensed from our earlier discussions that the trade unions recognised that this was a constructive step by the Government. It is the best offer that is going to be on the table; I think it is important that it is understood in that sense.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

Neither the Chancellor yesterday nor the Chief Secretary today answered the question about part-time workers—specifically about those earning less than £15,000 whose wages would be above that if they were working full time. Will the Minister tell us clearly whether those people will end up paying the 3% contribution? If so, he must understand why there cannot be an easy consensus on the issue.

[Danny Alexander]

As I said in answer to the shadow Chief Secretary, the proposals are on a full-time equivalent basis, which is exactly the way pension reform was carried out under the previous Government. Of course, the matter was open for discussion in the consultations about the first year’s contribution increases. We look forward to hearing the results of those consultations.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

I welcome the statement and congratulate the Front-Bench team on the work they have done to go as far as they can to help the low-paid. Is it not the truth that we are facing a crisis of spiralling costs from an irresponsible boom in the public sector under the last Government—with unfunded pension liabilities, bankrupt public finances and debt interest set to rise to £76 billion? Is it not the truth that it is always the poorest that pick up the bills for Labour and that a responsible—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The trouble with Members crafting their questions word for word is that they tend to be rather long.

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is right that the poorest in society end up paying the price for the loss of financial control that we saw in this country under the previous Government. He referred to the liabilities in public service pensions. Those liabilities are, on the latest figures, more than £1.1 trillion. That is the entire education budget for more than 20 years.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I welcome the flexibility that the Government are showing today in moving this whole issue forward. Where the statement dealt with the Government’s revised offer, the Chief Secretary provided some examples of the benefits that will accrue to some workers. Will he outline some examples of where people will be worse off? To press him on the point about the consumer prices index, he must surely have the facts and figures, but by how much on average will people be worse off as a result of the switch from RPI?

[Danny Alexander]

The right hon. Gentleman asks who will be worse off, which is a fair question. One flaw with the current final salary arrangements in the public sector is that the contributions of low-paid workers go towards subsidising the pensions of the highest earners. That is one reason why we want to move to a career average basis. Some of the losers from that would be the highest paid, particularly those such as chief executives of local authorities, who receive a large jump in salary at the end of their career and then get a pension as if that were their salary for their whole lifetime.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

There has been much concern over the last few years about a race to the bottom with pensions, particularly given the parlous state of pensions in much of the private sector. Can the Minister reassure us that the proposals currently on the table will remain a gold standard and will ensure generous but sustainable pensions in the public sector in the long run?

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend is right to remind us of the context in which 13 million workers in the private sector have no pension provision at all. That is something that will be taken care of as the NEST—National Employment Savings Trust—scheme is introduced. These will remain gold standard pensions. It is quite right that public sector workers who make a lifetime of contribution to serving this country should get the best pensions available, but the proposal will ensure that the costs are brought under control and that it is affordable to the taxpayer—not just now, but in the decades to come.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

I very much welcome the tone of the Chief Secretary’s statement. In line with the principle of transparency, which he underscored in his statement, will he make sure that there is an independent valuation of the teachers’ pension scheme?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s welcome of the tone we have taken. I hope that, in due course, he will welcome the substance as well. As to valuation information, it is being provided in the context of the scheme-by-scheme discussions. The trade unions have put forward many requests for information to be provided so that alternatives can be costed. All that work is going on in the context of the scheme-by-scheme discussions, but the valuation that was going to take place has been suspended on the basis that changes have been made, not least to the discount rate, which make that work invalid. It is best to wait until a new scheme is in place before we carry that work forward.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

I very much welcome the transitional arrangements outlined by my right hon. Friend for people 10 years away from retirement. It is particularly important for groups that would have joined the public services at a time when, unlike now, public sector pay was less than private sector pay. Will he outline roughly how many people will be affected?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful for those comments. The transitional protection is a very important part of this new offer. It is right that people who are within 10 years of retirement should have certainty about their planning for retirement. That principle has been observed on both sides in respect of the state pension age. I estimate that the transitional provision will protect more than 1 million public sector workers from any impact at all as a result of the changes.

[Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab)]

Can the Chief Secretary confirm that every penny paid in increased pension contributions will find its way into pension pots?

[Danny Alexander]

As the hon. Gentleman should know, in unfunded schemes there is no such thing as a pension pot. The money is not gathered together and invested. The contributions made today do not in any way meet the costs of the pensions being paid out today. What we are offering is what might be called a new deal for public service pensions, whereby additional contributions and longer working will help to ensure that public sector workers can still have the best pensions available. Many low-income workers will actually receive better pensions in retirement.

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

I welcome the statement, because I think it demonstrates that the Government are listening to the concerns expressed by nurses, teachers and firefighters in my constituency. During the scheme-by-scheme discussions, will the Chief Secretary bear in mind those with physically demanding jobs, such as firefighters? Will they retain the right to retire before reaching the state pension age, while still benefiting from their pensions?

[Danny Alexander]

That is a very good question. We are, of course, listening carefully to representations. As I have said, we have delayed setting a cost ceiling for the firefighters’ pension scheme, particularly in the light of some of the issues that my hon. Friend has mentioned, but what we are discussing now is the normal pension age for schemes; early retirement arrangements on an actuarily reduced basis will remain in place.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

Most of the examples given by the Chief Secretary have involved well-paid public sector workers who have been in continuous employment, but many of my constituents do not fall into that category. Can he tell us how a low-paid part-time worker earning, say, £8,000 a year and working 15 hours a week would fare?

[Danny Alexander]

I cannot give a specific example, because I do not have the necessary figures to hand, but I can say that I expect the lowest-paid people to benefit most from these arrangements. At present, those on the lowest salaries and with the flattest career paths contribute most to the pensions of the highest earners. The change to a career-average basis will ensure that many workers, particularly of the sort whom the hon. Lady has described, end up with more rather than less income in retirement. I consider that to be a right and proper reward for those people’s commitment to public service.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I too welcome the statement, but given that economic growth, economic development and job creation in my constituency depend on the small business community, can the Chief Secretary advise owners of small businesses how they should go about amassing a pension pot of half a million pounds before they retire?

[Danny Alexander]

It is true that in the private sector an enormous volume of contributions would be necessary to build up the pension pot that is required to fund the pensions that we are discussing today. The equivalent would be a pension pot of £600,000 or £700,000 a year. That is a measure of the Government’s recognition of the commitment that public service workers make.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary said earlier that the general taxpayer rather than public service workers had been footing the bill. May I point out to him that public service workers are also taxpayers, and that it has not helped that some people have been able to use the high pensions of the best-paid in the public sector as a typical example of those in the rest of the sector? We all know that pensions in the rest of the sector are very low.

Will the Chief Secretary place in the House of Commons Library some typical examples of the way in which the change from RPI to CPI has affected different sectors? Perhaps he could include examples involving part-time workers such as those cited by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass).

[Danny Alexander]

As I said earlier, that depends on a variety of circumstances, but today we are publishing a document that the hon. Gentleman can obtain from the Vote Office, entitled “Public sector pensions: good pensions that last”, and I am sure that it will provide much of the information that he requires.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s improved offer on public sector pensions, which shows that the Government are serious about meaningful negotiations. Will he challenge the rather misleading claims from some quarters that people will have to pay more, work longer and get less? Surely the truth is that—although people will indeed have to pay more and work longer—far from getting less, they will get much more, not least because on average they will receive 10 years’ more pension payments than the previous generation.

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and she is also right to warn people against some of the misleading propaganda that is circulating. I think it important for public sector workers—teachers, nurses and civil servants—to take time to study the offer that we are making for themselves. The document that we are publishing will be available on a website, so they can check out the new arrangements. As my hon. Friend says, yes, we are asking people to work longer and yes, we are asking them to contribute more, but many people will receive a significantly better pension on retirement than they would receive now.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

I was grateful to the Chief Secretary yesterday for answering my question about public sector workers who will no longer contribute to their pensions. He told me then that he expected 1% of the pay bill to cease to contribute, but added that he did not know who that 1% were. Given that they are very likely to be low-paid part-time workers rather than the highly paid chief executives to whom he has referred, will he make the figures available to the House?

[Danny Alexander]

It is true that I gave the figure of 1% of the pay bill. That is an assumption that was audited by the Office for Budget Responsibility and published in the relevant fiscal forecast that it presented. It is precisely for the reason given by the hon. Lady that we have chosen to tier the pension contribution increases according to income, so that no one earning less than £15,000 a year will experience any contribution increase. Those earning between £15,000 and £21,000 a year will experience a much reduced increase, while the heaviest burden of increases will be borne by the highest earners. That is the right and proper way in which to ensure that there are no opt-outs.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

While it is true that all taxpayers pay for the pensions that we are discussing, it is low-paid private sector workers working beyond retirement age—such as my dad—who are subsidising public sector pensions while receiving none of the benefits. I therefore welcome the proposed changes, and hope that my former colleagues in the teaching profession will accept them.

Firefighters’ pensions were mentioned earlier. Firefighters from my constituency whom I met yesterday were worried less about change than about whether they would be fit to do their job after the age of 55. Are the Government still prepared to discuss that issue with the union?

[Danny Alexander]

Yes, and John Hutton said in his report that he thought it appropriate to retain a lower retirement age for firefighters, the armed forces and the police. It is precisely because of the importance of such issues that the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill)—who is leading the negotiations—is taking longer than expected to set the cost ceiling. That will enable us to ensure that the arrangements for firefighters are appropriate and will allow them to continue to receive a very decent pension in return for what is a very important contribution to our society.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

Like many other Members, I received a delegation of teachers last week, and they told me that their current scheme was fair and sustainable. They will be less than delighted by the Chief Secretary’s earlier answer relating to a valuation of that scheme, for which they have been calling for some time. Does the Chief Secretary recognise that he must come clean about the costs to both taxpayers and employees if he is to win the battle to change hearts and minds?

[Danny Alexander]

Of course I recognise that we must win that battle for hearts and minds. That is why I am providing so much information today, and urging public sector workers to look at the Government’s deal directly rather than necessarily relying on the information that they receive from their trade unions.

I do not think it right to suggest that the current teachers’ pension scheme is fair and sustainable. Let us consider the relevant contribution rates. When the scheme was introduced many decades ago, employer and employee each contributed 5%. Now the employer contributes 16%, while the employee contributes about 6%. There has been a big change in the affordability of the scheme, and so far all the cost has fallen on the taxpayer.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the public sector should examine very carefully the generous revised terms that he has announced before considering strike action? Such action would merely serve to hurt millions in the private sector who pay their taxes in order to produce public sector pensions that they themselves can only dream of.

[Danny Alexander]

I do indeed hope that the trade unions will examine the proposals carefully. I was encouraged when they said that they would at our meeting this morning. Of course trade unions need to take time to understand the impact of the changes, but I hope that on reflection they will accept that the new offer constitutes a generous enhancement from the Government, and a fair and reasonable basis on which to reach agreement in the scheme-by-scheme talks that will take place during the next couple of months.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary said he believed that pension changes should be sustainable and fair. Will he confirm that he intends additional contributions to the local government pension scheme—which is a funded scheme—by scheme members to go straight to the Treasury rather than into their pension fund?

[Danny Alexander]

No, that is not correct.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

According to reports in today’s press, only 40% of private sector workers receive pension contributions, while 85% of public sector servants receive not only a pension, but a more generous one. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is time to address these differences, rather than engage in irresponsible strike action?

[Danny Alexander]

I wholeheartedly agree that it is time to address these differences, but not by trying to get public sector involvement in pensions down to the level in the private sector. What we need to do is what we have done today: set out an offer that combines affordability for the general taxpayer with proper pensions as a reward for a career in the public service, along with steps to encourage more private sector workers to involve themselves in pensions. That is precisely the basis of the new NEST scheme, which the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), is taking forward.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Does the Chief Secretary regret the way negotiations have been conducted so far, with him practising megaphone diplomacy, not providing information requested by the trade unions, and causing a great deal of distress and upset to my constituents who are public sector workers?

[Danny Alexander]

I think what the hon. Lady has said is total nonsense; that is not an appropriate characterisation of what we have done. I do not regret the way the talks have progressed for the past eight months, and I look forward to reaching agreement on this issue, with or without the support of the Opposition.

[Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend outline how he thinks the unions should respond to the proposals he has set out today? Does he agree with most Members on the Government Benches, who think the unions should respond by today calling off any planned industrial action?

--- Later in debate ---

[Danny Alexander]

It is for the unions to reflect and decide on their response. I am not standing here at the Dispatch Box to respond for them; it is strange enough to respond for the Liberal Democrats and the Conservative party. I hope that the trade unions will, on reflection, realise that this offer provides a justification for putting renewed effort and vigour into the scheme-by-scheme discussions and much less effort and vigour into any possible strike action.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

What is the cost to the public purse of the changes the right hon. Gentleman has announced today?

[Danny Alexander]

The cost ceiling under these changes will be 8% higher than the previous cost ceiling we set out.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

My question has just been answered.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Has the Chief Secretary taken into account the particular responsibilities of devolved Administrations and the rights of their public sector workers—many of them low paid, and all of them tax-paying—and do the terms of today’s offer differ from the previous terms about which he wrote to those Administrations?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. These matters have been discussed regularly at the Finance Ministers quadrilaterals, which bring the Finance Ministers of the devolved Administrations and me together, so people have been kept informed. The tradition has been that the devolved pension schemes follow by analogy the agreements reached at a UK level. I will write to the devolved Finance Ministers to set out what I have announced today, so they can take that into account in their own decisions on these matters.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

I strongly welcome the improved flexibility, and ask that we be as generous as that allows. This is not just about fair rewards in future or burdens on the taxpayer; it is also about recruitment and retention now, to keep people in the police, teaching and, in my constituency, GCHQ, working for the well-being and safety of taxpayers and non-taxpayers alike.

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend makes the point that public sector workers have traditionally considered the level of pension to be an important part of their reward package, and they are right to think that. I hope my hon. Friend agrees that the offer we have set out today constitutes a very fair reward for a career spent in precisely the sort of public service institutions he has described.

[Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary will be aware that one of the concerns about increasing contributions is that that will lead to a rise in opt-out rates, particularly among low-paid and part-time workers, most of whom are women. In his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), he mentioned an assumption of 1% of the pay bill, but the schemes and their memberships are very different. Will he ensure that opt-out rates are analysed on a scheme-by-scheme basis, as rising contributions could have a major effect on the viability of some schemes?

[Danny Alexander]

We have taken that on board through the proposals for a tiered increase in contributions. The hon. Lady will be aware that 80% of the public sector workers who earn less than £15,000 a year and will not have any contribution rate at all are women.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Some months ago, when the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General told the House that one of his key negotiating goals was to protect, if not improve, the pensions of lower and middle-earning public sector workers, not all my constituents were convinced. Today, he and the Chief Secretary have delivered on that promise, and hard-working nurses at the Gloucestershire royal hospital and teachers in Gloucester will welcome the news that many of them will have better pensions than at present. However, does the Chief Secretary share my disappointment that the Opposition Front-Bench team has been unable to welcome today’s news, especially as workers in businesses such as Wall’s in my constituency have recently seen their own pensions significantly watered down?

[Danny Alexander]

I agree. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the important role played by the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General. If I may say so, we make a good team in these negotiations. These are very generous pension schemes, particularly for low and middle-income earners, and rightly so. We must make sure the funding of them is sustainable in both the short term and the long term. That is one of the reasons why I find the Opposition’s lack of welcome for the announcement so frustrating.

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

Although I welcome the Chief Secretary’s statement, I am disappointed that it has taken eight months to get any serious negotiation and any movement from the Government. I am particularly concerned about two issues. The first is to do with low-paid women workers in the pension scheme, and particularly those who work part time. Has any analysis been done of the possible impacts if they opt out of their pension scheme, therefore receiving less money when they retire from the benefits they then receive? On the firefighters’ pension scheme, we have heard conflicting answers from the Chief Secretary: he has said they will have actuarially reduced pensions, but he has also said they will be allowed to retire early. I am therefore a little confused as to where the Chief Secretary stands on that.

[Danny Alexander]

I am very grateful indeed for the first welcome for my statement from an Opposition Member. The hon. Lady is right that it is important to consider low-paid workers, which is why we are proposing to move to a career-average basis, under which low-paid workers will keep more of their own contributions, instead of subsidising the pensions of the highest earners. It is also why we have tiered the contributions increase in order to try to prevent opt-out. The negotiations on the firefighters’ scheme are ongoing, and I am told they are going well. We have delayed the publication of the cost ceiling to make sure we can take into account all the issues raised by firefighters in the discussions.

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

I welcome today’s statement. Many of the measures will meet the concerns of people such as the firefighters I met yesterday. On career-average earnings, does my right hon. Friend share my aspiration about the system being fairer to those who have taken career breaks, many of whom will be women?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding me of that important point. Public service pensions must reflect not only the careers of people who spend an unbroken working life in the public sector, but the careers of the many people who take time out. By having a career-average basis, especially when each year’s contribution is revalued by earnings, people who take a career break will still get the full value of the contributions they have made in both parts of their career.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

I congratulate the Chief Secretary on listening so carefully and responding so generously to the representations on pensions. The police cannot strike, of course, and Lord Hutton has dealt with them separately, but can the Chief Secretary tell us a little more about the proposals for police pensions?

[Danny Alexander]

Those proposals will be brought forward later. Police pensions are being considered by Tom Winsor in his second report. His recommendations will not be about the police alone, but we need to make sure that police officers get a proper, fair and decent pension for the contribution they make to our society.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

The Chief Secretary has once again said that all accrued rights will be protected. Will he confirm, however, that the change from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index will, in practice, affect the accrued rights of every single member of every public sector pension scheme?

[Danny Alexander]

I do not believe that that is a correct use of the term “accrued rights”. Of course we will protect the accrued rights in full. The RPI to CPI switch will have the effect that I described in my statement. That is the subject of a legal dispute at the moment, but it was the right decision by the Government.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Has the Chief Secretary received any constructive representations from the Labour party regarding this important topic or has its involvement been limited to the irresponsible words of the shadow education spokesman, who is no longer in his place, condoning teachers’ strikes?

[Danny Alexander]

I am yet to receive a constructive suggestion from the Labour party, but I live in hope.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

I welcome the statement. As the Chief Secretary knows, I broadly support the direction of travel that the Government have been taking, but I had some concerns. I think that tremendous progress has been made and I am grateful for that. I have a technical question that is important to a lot of my constituents: what is the current split between employer and employee contributions for teachers and nurses, and how would that change under his proposals?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's welcome. Today’s announcement will increase the cost ceiling for the talks. We will make sure that the employer contribution is still significantly greater than the employee contribution, but of course the contributions increase that we are proposing rebalances them to take account of past increases and longevity. On the teachers’ pension scheme for England and Wales, the gross cost ceiling that we are setting out today will be 21.7%, the taxpayer contribution will be 12.1% and the employee contribution will be 9.6%. Of course these matters still have to be discussed in the teacher scheme-specific negotiations, but that is the basic framework that we are setting out today.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

The whole House will welcome the statement from one of the most capable Ministers in the coalition Government, who has been keeping the House informed. The point about the transition was the biggest concern to constituents who came to see me. May we have it clearly put on the record that nobody who is within 10 years of their current retirement date will have to retire later or will be worse off?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments, and I hope that Mrs Bone shares his views. He is right to say that nobody who is within 10 years of retirement on 1 April next year will see any change either to their retirement age or to the benefits that they receive.

[Mr Speaker]

That answer will doubtless wing its way to Mrs Bone in a matter of minutes.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

I congratulate the Chief Secretary on his statement. May I also ask him to continue to negotiate and engage positively with the trade unions in the weeks and months ahead?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman can certainly ask that and I certainly will do so. The Government are setting out this new offer, which is conditional on agreement being reached. The Government will continue to work very hard to achieve that agreement, both in the scheme-specific discussions and in the central process, which we will also continue.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Does the Chief Secretary agree that, as longevity is still increasing by about two years a decade and is likely to carry on doing so, we cannot stick our head in the sand or sit on the fence, as we have seen the Opposition do? All parties need to work together to reach a proper consensus, so that we can achieve a long-lasting, sustainable settlement.

[Danny Alexander]

I think that it would be in the national interest to have a proper cross-party consensus on today’s proposals. The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the increases in longevity. By linking the normal pension age to the state pension age we can ensure that the taxpayer is protected from that in future, because as longevity increases, the state pension age can be changed. That is the right way to protect pensions, rather than the previous Government’s cap and share arrangement, which would have meant complex negotiations every three years. That would have resulted in both increases in contributions and reductions in benefits every three years. By setting out this scheme now, we have one that can last for 25 years without the need for further negotiation.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

In the private sector, where most people work, getting an annual pension of £10,000 typically requires a pension pot of £200,000, which would buy a very nice house in Kettering. Does the Chief Secretary share my concern that many public sector workers seem to think that private sector provision is far more generous than it actually is?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is right about that, and he makes an important point. Part of the reason for setting out some of the information about pension pots today is precisely to widen public understanding of the comparison. That is not to do down public sector workers—in fact, what we are setting out today is a properly positive and generous offer to them—but we are making it clear that there is a wide gulf and we need to raise standards in the private sector too.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Chief Secretary and colleagues, whose succinctness enabled 47 Back-Bench Members to question the Chief Secretary in 41 minutes of exclusively Back-Bench time. It shows what can be done when we try.

Oral Answers to Questions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of the effects on unemployment of the outcome of the comprehensive spending review.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The independent Office for Budget Responsibility published its forecast for unemployment in March. Unemployment is a serious problem for the UK, with about 1 million people continuously on out-of-work benefits for more than a decade. This Government have introduced a number of reforms to the welfare system, including the Work programme—the biggest single payment-by-results employment programme this country has ever seen, which is expected to help 2.4 million claimants over the next seven years.

[Chris Williamson]

The Chief Secretary should stop being so complacent about long-term unemployment. The truth is that this Government are spending more to keep people on the dole and they are losing income from tax revenues that would otherwise be paid on income tax and VAT. Is it not time that the Government adopted a plan for jobs and growth to get the economy moving again? The right hon. Gentleman could do worse than adopt Labour’s five-point plan for economic growth and avoid the spectre of stagflation for years to come.

[Danny Alexander]

I am not sure that Labour’s five-point plan would help the British economy, given that it involves spending an extra £20-odd billion, putting at risk the fiscal credibility that is so important to maintaining employment in this country. Nor do I think the hon. Gentleman should be so critical of the Work programme, which after all is designed to tackle the legacy of 1 million people who have been out of work for more than 10 years—a legacy for which his party is responsible.

[Mr Barron]

Is it not true that the increase in unemployment caused by the comprehensive spending review is a heavy burden both for the individuals and the families concerned and for the economy? What does the Minister say to the fact that the Government have had to borrow £46 billion more this year than they were planning to borrow?

[Danny Alexander]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that unemployment is a heavy burden for any individual or any family. We inherited from Labour the largest budget deficit this country has ever seen. It was incumbent on this coalition Government when we came into office to take the action necessary, otherwise we would have found ourselves in a position that many other European countries face, which would have been a great deal worse for the very people the right hon. Gentleman claims to be concerned about.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

One of the key weapons in tackling youth unemployment is the use of apprenticeships, so will my right hon. Friend join me in welcoming the news that in Staffordshire Moorlands the number of apprentices has gone up from 480 in 2009-10 to 760 last year—an increase of 60%?

[Danny Alexander]

I certainly join the hon. Lady in welcoming that. It will provide significant new opportunities for young people in her constituency. Of course it is part of the increase of 250,000 apprenticeships that this Government have put in place.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

After this morning’s encouraging news, does my right hon. Friend accept that one way of maximising employment is to give people the right to have flexible employment if that is what they wish? Given that the coalition agreement pledged to give people the right to request flexible employment, can he report on progress in implementing that commitment?

[Danny Alexander]

My right hon. Friend is correct, and it is a great shame that Labour Members sneer at the economic growth that has been reported today. As my right hon. Friend says, flexible employment is an important part of that growth. We set out plans in our coalition agreement, and we have announced proposals to implement them by the end of the current Parliament.

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

I must say that I find the Chief Secretary’s answers incredibly complacent. Given that unemployment is at a 17-year high and long-term youth unemployment has risen by more than 60% since the start of the year, we all know what impact the Chancellor’s policies have had on unemployment. Instead of being complacent, will the Government support calls for them to repeat the bankers’ bonus tax in order to create 100,000 extra youth jobs and to introduce a national insurance holiday for small businesses taking on new workers? That is what Labour has proposed in its five-point plan. We need policies that will get the economy moving again and reduce unemployment, thus reducing the deficit. When will the Government act?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Lady’s position would have more credibility if she recognised the fact that youth unemployment rose during Labour’s time in office, as did long-term unemployment. As for her proposal for a bonus tax, that was written off by the last Chancellor of the Exchequer, who said that it could not work. She should listen to her own colleagues first.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

3. What steps he is taking to reduce tax avoidance and evasion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

6. What recent discussions he has had on social impact bonds.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

Important work is going on within both the social investment sector and government to develop and test social impact bond models, and we meet regularly with colleagues to discuss the progress that the Government are making in growing the social investment market, including through social impact bonds.

[Mark Garnier]

My right hon. Friend will be well aware of the exciting potential that social impact bonds have, not only in offering financial support for the third sector, but in securing genuine savings for the Government. Will he or one of his Ministers meet me and representatives from the Social Finance investment bank to explore ways in which the Treasury can help to maximise the potential of this nascent financial instrument?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the enormous potential of this sector, and I congratulate him on his work and the close interest he has taken in this subject. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury would be very happy to meet both him and representatives of the Social Finance investment bank.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Kelvin Hopkins.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

16. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on funding for the regional growth fund.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

I regularly discuss the regional growth fund with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Yesterday we announced the outcome of round two of the fund. In total we expect the regional growth fund to support more than 325,000 jobs in the private sector over the next three years.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Teesside has not yet received any of its promised RGF funding. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk) says that is down to due diligence, which takes an average of between four and six weeks. No one doubts the need for due diligence, but how much is the Chancellor charging businesses that receive RGF funding for seven months of due diligence limbo?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that well over half the projects that were given funding in round 1 are under way, mostly with the private sector funding to start with; the public sector funding will come in later. But I should have thought he would want to welcome the fact that two specific round 2 bids were successful in Middlesbrough in the round that we announced yesterday.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

17. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect on household spending of an increase in interest rates.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

I do agree with my hon. Friend. We will set out more details of our credit easing plan in the autumn statement later this month, but it is a mark of the Government that we are prepared to think differently and intelligently about how we can use such mechanisms precisely to get small businesses going in this country.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

T9. Youth unemployment now stands at a shocking 34% in Tameside and 23% in Stockport. Is not the right thing to do to listen to Labour’s five-point jobs plan, get the bank bonus tax reinstated and invest in 100,000 jobs for young people?

Jobs and Growth

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

This has been a very good debate in which we have heard 31 contributions from Back-Bench colleagues on both sides of the House. The right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) made clear his continuing support for paying our subscriptions to the IMF. We heard particularly passionate speeches by the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) and my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson), who made strong pitches on behalf of their constituents, as did many other hon. Members.

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury on her appointment. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) made a pitch for her job, but I think she is quite safe. She has a tough job to do in controlling the free-spending instincts of many of her colleagues. The Chancellor referred to the £11 billion cost of a commitment made in amendments that she tabled to the Pensions Bill on her last day as shadow Pensions Minister, and I hope that others will not follow her example.

The shadow Chief Secretary will have to think carefully about whom she asks for advice. Perhaps she could ask the shadow Chancellor, or perhaps not. Perhaps she could ask my predecessor but one, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), who left a message for my predecessor saying that there was no money left. That is not the only message that he has left recently. [Interruption.] Calm down. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) received a message yesterday on her answering machine from the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill saying, “Could you put in to speak tomorrow? The shadow Chancellor needs all the help he can get.” It is to be assumed that he had confused my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North with the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden), who is next to her in the House of Commons telephone directory. Perhaps the shadow Chief Secretary could turn for advice to her former boss, the Governor of the Bank of England, who last year backed this Government’s strong and powerful deficit reduction plan, and who last week reiterated that this Government have a credible plan to repay our debts. In the end, the test for her and her party will be whether they have plans that are in any way credible. On today’s evidence, the answer is no.

I will answer a couple of the questions that have been asked about Labour’s plans. It has set out plans today for the Pensions Bill that would cost an additional £31 billion of debt. Somebody asked what the interest on that would cost. It would cost £1.2 billion a year or £3.2 million a day. That is just on the spending commitments that Labour has made this week.

Likewise, the shadow Chancellor seems somewhat confused about his own policy on the switch from RPI to CPI. As I understand it, he will support the switch, for which I am grateful, for three years. That means that he will seek to reverse it in 2014-15. That would cost an extra £6 billion at the end of this Parliament. The shadow Chief Secretary has her work cut out with the shadow Chancellor, as well as with everyone else. That is why I say that only the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives have a credible economic plan.

As many speakers in this debate have recognised, when we came into government we inherited the largest peacetime deficit this country has ever faced. We were borrowing one pound for every four that we spent. We were on a completely unsustainable trajectory, which compelled Standard & Poor’s to put the UK’s triple A rating on negative watch. We had to take the difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions to pull the country out of that hole. We are taking action not because it is easy, but because it is the right thing to do in the national interest. We are already seeing the benefits from our plan.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I wonder whether the right hon. Gentleman will apologise to all the people who voted Liberal Democrat having heard his party say in the election campaign that to cut too fast would be detrimental to the economy.

[Danny Alexander]

No, I will not because our plan for deficit reduction is necessary to restore the credibility of this country’s finances. If there is any apologising to be done, it is from Opposition Members.

As I was saying, we are already seeing the benefits from our plan. Standard & Poor’s took the UK’s rating off negative watch and reaffirmed our rating in its latest report.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Danny Alexander]

I will not give way because I have little time to get through the points made in the debate.

Standard & Poor’s warned that our rating would come under pressure if the Government faltered in their commitment to fiscal consolidation. The markets have also backed us. When we came into government our gilt yields were tracking the likes of Spain and Italy. Since then, our yields have fallen to follow those of Germany.

Our plan makes a real difference to households and businesses. It allows families to stay in their homes and businesses to refinance their debt. As the Chancellor said, without a credible plan, interest rates would rise. A 1% rise in interest rates would take £10 billion out of the pockets of British families through higher mortgage costs, leading to higher repossessions and more job losses. That is the Opposition’s plan.

[Ian Lucas]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. Given that youth unemployment is today approaching 1 million and that as a Liberal Democrat he touted for votes by offering the abolition of fees and by pursuing the policy of the Labour party, rather than the policy he is now pursuing, does he not think that it is entirely understandable that young people have no faith in politics? Should he not say sorry?

[Danny Alexander]

No, the hon. Gentleman should say sorry, and of course we are supporting Airbus, in his part of the country, as part of our strategy for creating jobs.

We have only to look across the eurozone to see the costs of political indecision and the price that comes from consolidating at the behest of the market rather than taking charge of one’s own destiny, as the Government have. We have seen the problems in the eurozone and are working to help, but we already have flexibility in our own plan. By taking the tough decisions that we have on fiscal policy, we have provided the space in which the Bank of England can act. In the Governor’s own words,

“monetary policy is the right way to take the strain of changes in the world economy.”

As we have already said, we are considering credit easing options as a way to inject money directly into the business sector. We will provide further details in the autumn statement, and I am grateful for the welcome given to that policy on both sides of the House.

Of course, today’s unemployment figures are a reminder of the difficult task that we face. Unemployment is not merely a statistic; it is a high cost for the individuals and families concerned. It is not a price worth paying, and that is why we will be relentless in our pursuit of growth.

[Geraint Davies]

Will the Chief Secretary give way?

[Matthew Hancock]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Danny Alexander]

I will not. I only have a few minutes left.

We will not return to growth on the back of debt-fuelled consumption.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Danny Alexander]

No, I will not.

We will not return to growth on the back of what we might call predatory growth, based on spending money we do not have, so that when the music stops and the bills fall due, they have to be paid for by the rest of us. Instead, we are committed to building a new model of growth powered by investment, exports and enterprise, for example by investing in infrastructure. Over the four years of this spending review period, we will invest more in transport infrastructure than our predecessors managed in the previous four years.

[Rachel Reeves]

Before the general election, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills said:

“Cuts without economic growth will not deal with the deficit.”

Does the Chief Secretary agree?

[Danny Alexander]

I do, and I am about to set out exactly what this Government are doing for economic growth, if I can be allowed two or three more minutes to fill in that point.

As I was saying, we are investing in infrastructure. Only two weeks ago, I announced the creation of a new “Growing Places” fund—half a billion pounds that will kick-start developments that are currently stalled, deliver on key infrastructure and create jobs.

As my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) said, we also have to stop the decay in our competitiveness that has marred the past decade. so we are cutting corporation tax to 23% by 2014, taking it to the lowest rate in the G7. We will increase the SME rate of research and development tax credits to 225% by April 2012, and we are tackling the problems of the imbalances in growth between regions, which a number of Members on both sides of the House have raised. That is why today, the Business Secretary announced the first of our new technology and innovation centres that are being established, and why we have committed £1.4 billion to the regional growth fund, which has committed to projects in the north-east, the north-west and across the country.

As the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Sir Stuart Bell) rightly observed, we have also announced 22 enterprise zones that will attract hundreds of new start-up enterprises and create thousands of jobs by 2015. We are ensuring, too, that our young people have the skills to seize their opportunities through the recovery. We are supporting more apprenticeships than any previous Government—by the end of this Parliament we will deliver 250,000 more than the previous Government planned, on top of a total of 100,000 work experience placements.

I know that this is a difficult time for many people and families across the country, and that it is not much comfort to say that it would be very much worse if it were not for this Government’s determination to fix the failures of the past.

[Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.

Public Sector Pensions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Ministerial Corrections

[Mr Raab]

To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the level of financial liability for public sector pensions.

[Official Report, 18 July 2011, Vol. 531, c. 540W.]

Letter of correction from Danny Alexander:

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on 18 July 2011.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Danny Alexander]

The latest estimate of the total public service pension net liability is £1,133 million, as disclosed in the unaudited summary report of the Whole of Governments Accounts for the year end 31 March 2010 published on 13 July 2011.

The correct answer should have been:

[Danny Alexander]

The latest estimate of the total public service pension net liability is £1,133 billion, as disclosed in the unaudited summary report of the Whole of Governments Accounts for the year end 31 March 2010 published on 13 July 2011.

Oral Answers to Questions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)]

4. What recent estimate he has made of the public sector borrowing requirement.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The July public sector finances release issued by the Office for National Statistics estimates that the out-turn for public sector net borrowing in 2010-11 is £142.7 billion, or 9.7% of gross domestic product—£14 billion lower than in 2009-10.

[Mike Freer]

Citibank economist Michael Saunders recently said that

“the major risk to the UK’s fiscal outlook and credit rating would be if the coalition fails to stay the course on fiscal consolidation.”

Does my right hon. Friend agree?

[Danny Alexander]

Yes, I very much agree with that. As my hon. Friend will know, the need to tackle the enormous economic problems that we inherited from the previous Government, including the enormous budget deficit, was the founding purpose of this Government. It is a purpose that we intend to see through, and he can be reassured that we will stick to our plans.

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

Given the Government’s poor performance on growth, lower tax receipts and higher welfare spending, will the Chief Secretary repeat—a simple yes or no answer will do—whether the Government are still committed to their target of falling public debt as a percentage of GDP by 2015? Yes or no?

[Danny Alexander]

Yes.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the financial crisis in the eurozone.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab)]

10. What his policy is on the pay of public sector workers earning less than £20,000.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

At the June Budget in 2010, we announced that public sector workers earning £21,000 or less would be protected from the two-year pay freeze and receive at least £250 in each year.

[John Robertson]

I hear what the right hon. Gentleman is saying, but not giving those workers a pay rise of £250 as the Government said they would is tantamount to their not getting it. Freezing pay is not an increase. What is he going to do about this? Is he going to honour the undertaking in the Budget last year to give those hundreds of thousands of workers £250 or not?

[Danny Alexander]

The £250 increase applies to all work forces under ministerial control, and it was introduced this year. It will be carried through again next year to ensure that people on low incomes in the public sector continue to receive a pay rise.

[Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury assure us that, in drawing up plans on public sector pay, the Treasury has not been impeded by a brutal regime in No. 10 Downing street?

[Danny Alexander]

I can certainly assure my hon. Friend of that. Unlike under the previous Government, No. 10 Downing street and the Treasury work very well together on these issues.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What recent assessment he has made of the level of economic growth.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

13. What recent assessment he has made of the effects on the economy of the public sector borrowing requirement.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

Sound public finances are essential for sustainable economic growth. The action that the Government have taken to reduce public sector borrowing will help to mitigate the risks to the recovery, underpin private sector confidence and help to keep interest rates low, which will help families and businesses.

[Andrew Selous]

Was it because of a high public sector net cash requirement that forces up interest rates, makes it more difficult for businesses to borrow, increases taxes and means that money spent on debt interest cannot be spent on public services that the outgoing director general of the British Chambers of Commerce said when he left on Friday that, in order to keep the economy going, it is essential that we stick to the Chancellor’s economic plan?

[Danny Alexander]

I am sure that that was part of his reasoning and I very much welcome his endorsement, alongside that of all the other business organisations in the UK that continue to back the deficit reduction plan we have set out. It is worth observing that the proposals put forward by the outgoing director of the British Chambers of Commerce and other proposals are also being taken forward by this Government. There is very strong alignment between small businesses and this Government.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

At what point, though, will Treasury Ministers realise that this austerity programme is damaging growth and that what the Government should be doing is beating a track round the world to make sure that there is an international commitment to putting growth back into the economy? That is the way we will get rid of the deficit in our economy.

[Danny Alexander]

This deficit reduction plan is essential to restoring credibility to British public finances, which is critical to keeping interest rates low, as low interest rates help to keep people in their jobs and in their homes. That is the argument for the plan.

[Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the borrowing and revenue figures are now completely independently audited by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility and are no longer the completely unreliable and overtly political forecasts that, as we now know, were forced on the previous Chancellor by the previous Prime Minister?

[Danny Alexander]

I can certainly confirm that the Office for Budget Responsibility is responsible for these matters and is independent. We certainly do not go in for the political fiddling of the figures that my hon. Friend described.

[Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)]

14. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effects on the rate of inflation of recent trends in domestic energy prices.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab)]

16. What assessment he has made of the potential implications for the economy of the most recent figures for economic growth.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

Our economic policy is designed to achieve strong, sustainable and balanced growth that is shared more evenly across the country and between industries. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility has predicted that the economy will grow throughout 2011 and in every year of the forecast, and it will publish a fully updated forecast in the autumn.

[Margaret Curran]

Is the Chief Secretary aware of a survey produced this week by the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply? It shows the sharpest slow-down in growth in the services sector for well over a decade. If Britain is such a safe haven, why is that happening?

[Danny Alexander]

I am aware of the survey, and of course many businesses are experiencing difficulties, not least owing to the headwinds in the global economy that we—along with other countries—are encountering. That is why we are taking measures to help businesses such as those to which the hon. Lady has referred, through our plan for growth and in relation to regulation, the planning system and investment in the transport infrastructure. I am sure she agrees that constitutional uncertainty about independence in Scotland is causing serious damage to businesses and business investment there.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Is not the most important contribution that the Government can make to economic growth to be “united at the top” and to have “a credible economic policy”?

[Danny Alexander]

I agree very much with that. I believe that it is a quotation from the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling). We are united at the top and we have a credible economic policy, while the Opposition—if I may use the former Chancellor’s phrase—are “not at the races”.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Does the Chief Secretary—whom I fondly recall from the days when he was known as “Danny the euro”—agree that a big problem that we all face is the fact that the purchasing power of the pound internationally has sunk to an all-time low? Do we not have a real problem with the Osborne pound, which is now importing inflation, and do we not need to separate the two? We cannot get rid of the pound, because they will not let us, so do we not have to get rid of the Chancellor?

[Danny Alexander]

The right hon. Gentleman—I shall not tell the House what he was known as—should be aware that the reduction in the value of the pound took place under the previous Government, so he might direct his comments to them. He might also recognise, if he were being balanced, that that is having a beneficial effect on British exporters who are trying to sell into the eurozone, where the difficulties are, of course, affecting us as well.

[Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Public Service Pensions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2011 Written Statements

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The coalition programme gave a commitment to review the long-term affordability and sustainability of public service pensions, and Lord Hutton’s Independent Public Service Pensions Commission has demonstrated that reform is needed. At Budget, the Government made clear that they accepted Lord Hutton’s recommendations as a basis for consultation with public sector workers, trade unions and others and that we would set out proposals in the autumn that are affordable, sustainable and fair to both the public sector work force and the taxpayer.

The Government have already committed to retaining a form of defined benefit pension in the public sector and protecting accrued rights so that all the benefits that members have earned up to the point of change will be protected. Today, I would like to inform the House of the progress that has been made and the process going forwards.

The Government and the Trades Union Congress (TUC) have held a series of constructive meetings to discuss public service pension reform which have covered Lord Hutton’s key recommendations and the Government’s proposed employee contributions increase. A basis for agreement has been established in several areas, but differences remain on some of the key recommendations.

The Government and the TUC have agreed that to further inform the discussions on Lord Hutton’s recommendations, there should be scheme level discussions alongside the central process already established. Scheme level discussions will ensure a fuller understanding of the implications of reforms, before final conclusions are reached. These scheme level discussions will deliver initial proposals for reformed schemes by the end of October this year, allowing further work to finalise detailed scheme design before the Government introduce legislation in due course.

Lord Hutton’s recommendations will inform these scheme level discussions and the Government will provide scheme-specific cost ceilings. These ceilings will be based on Lord Hutton’s proposals, but will go further and ensure that the pension individuals receive at normal pension age would be broadly as generous for low and middle-income earners as it is now. These cost ceilings will ensure that public service pensions remain affordable and sustainable, by setting a limit on the contribution made by the Government and ultimately the taxpayer.

Further to the rationale for short-term savings set out in Lord Hutton’s interim report, the Government announced plans to target £2.8 billion savings per year by 2014-15 through public service employee pension contributions at spending review 2010. The scheme-by-scheme consultations for the unfunded public service pension schemes to deliver the first year’s savings of £1.2 billion will commence by the end of this month. Reflecting the Government’s commitment to protect the low paid, the Government’s have set out their preferred parameters for any design. There should be no increase in employee contributions for those earning less that £15,000 and no more than a 1.5 percentage point increase in total by 2014-15 for those earning up to £21,000. This amounts to a 0.6 percentage point increase in 2012-13 on a pro-rata basis. It is proposed that higher earners will pay more but the Government have proposed a cap on the maximum increase of 6 percentage points (before tax relief) by 2014-15. This amounts to a 2.4 percentage point cap in 2012-13 on a pro-rata basis. These consultations will be completed by the end of October, in order to ensure implementation by April 2012.

The Government remain committed to securing the full spending review savings of £2.3 billion in 2013-14 and £2.8 billion in 2014-15, requiring each scheme to find savings equivalent to a 3.2 percentage point increase. Scheme specific discussions will make proposals on how these savings are achieved and will be required to make proposals by the end of October this year. For local government, the Government recognise that the funded nature of the scheme puts it in a different position and will discuss whether there are alternative ways to deliver some or all of the savings.

I have today exchanged letters on these issues with the General Secretary of the Trades Union Congress and copies of these letters have been deposited in the Libraries of both Houses.

Oral Answers to Questions

Danny Alexander Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con)]

5. What recent estimate he has made of the size of the structural deficit.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The independent Office for Budget Responsibility published its latest forecast on the structural deficit in the March economic and fiscal outlook. The OBR forecast shows the structural deficit was 7.4% of GDP in 2010-11.

[John Stevenson]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Does he agree that one of the main reasons we are experiencing financial difficulties and the large budget deficit is the simply that for a number of years prior to the recession the Labour Government were borrowing money while other, prudent economies were repaying debt, and that has exacerbated our problems now?

[Danny Alexander]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question, and he makes an important point. This country was running a structural deficit from 2002 onwards, so his analysis is exactly right. However, that was not the only problem with the previous Government’s policy, of course; another was their abject failure to regulate the banks and deal with the financial system. That is a further major cause of the problems we face.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Chief Secretary accept that his and his Government’s macho approach of massive cuts and confronting the unions is reducing consumer confidence, which in turn is reducing investment, and that that is hindering growth and has led to the March deficit forecast being increased by £46 billion, which is almost £1,000 per person in Britain?

[Danny Alexander]

No, I do not. The decisions we have taken on reducing the enormous budget deficit we inherited from Labour were absolutely necessary to restore confidence in this country’s ability to pay its way in the world, and that is helping to deliver the low interest rates that are delivering a significant benefit to our economy. The hon. Gentleman should recognise that, too.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Will the Chief Secretary reassure the House that he will never behave as irresponsibly as The Daily Telegraph has revealed the last Government did? When faced with a massive structural deficit before the recession, they increased spending by £90 billion between 2007 and 2010, even though the Treasury told them to increase spending only in line with inflation.

[Danny Alexander]

I can certainly confirm that we will not repeat that mistake. We have all seen the document entitled, “We’ve spent all this money, but what have we got for it?” It is very important that this country maintains the spending plans we set out in the spending review, in order to deliver the deficit reduction that this country needs to establish confidence in our economy.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

7. What assessment he has made of trends in bank lending to small businesses in the first quarter of 2011.

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[Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

15. What recent assessment he has made of the effect on the economy of trends in the rate of unemployment.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

The unemployment rate has fallen recently: in the latest data, it was 7.7%—down from 7.9% on the quarter. The Office for Budget Responsibility assumed at Budget 2011 that the structural rate of unemployment was unchanged from its previous trends at 5.25%. In the medium term, unemployment is expected to fall as the economy recovers, supported by the action taken by the Government, including measures published in the Budget and “The Plan for Growth.”

[Bill Esterson]

Youth unemployment peaked in 1985 four years after the recession of 1981, with disastrous consequences for a generation of young people. When the Chancellor scrapped the future jobs fund he showed that he had not learned from what happened in the 1980s. Is not the truth that the Chancellor is out of touch with the realities of life for young people and is on course to repeat the same mistakes as the Tories made in the 1980s, with the same disastrous consequences?

[Danny Alexander]

If the hon. Gentleman was being fair, he would recognise that youth unemployment was growing substantially under the previous Government as well. The country has faced the problem for many years, which is why in the Budget we announced a £200 million package of support, including work experience placements for young people, skills training, guaranteed interviews and progression to apprenticeships. Including the measures in the Budget and the spending review, we will deliver at least 250,000 more apprenticeships over the next four years, compared with the previous Government’s plans.

[Steve Rotheram]

Since this nightmare coalition came to power, the number of people out of work in my constituency has increased, and that is even before the cuts really start to bite. Is it not a fact that the Chancellor, like many Members on the Government Benches, still believes that unemployment is a price worth paying?

[Danny Alexander]

Certainly not. That is why in Merseyside, we have announced a new enterprise zone that will encompass the Liverpool Waters and Mersey Waters regeneration projects. The regional growth fund has announced several projects in Merseyside, and the Work programme in Merseyside will help to deliver support for people to get off benefits and into work; the second contractor got under way yesterday. I hope the hon. Gentleman agrees that is a serious programme to help people off benefit and into work in Merseyside.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that the recent announcement of the sharpest fall in unemployment in a decade and the creation of 500,000 jobs in the private sector over the past year shows hope that things are going in the right direction for unemployment?

[Danny Alexander]

We always said that the economic recovery would be choppy, but it is none the less welcome that we have seen significant job creation in the private sector over the past year. That offsets some of the job reductions in the public sector that are necessary as part of our deficit reduction programme.

[Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con)]

May I tell my right hon. Friend that since May last year unemployment in my constituency has fallen by 11%? That is due to fast-growing private companies, such as Pegasystems. Is not the key to reducing high unemployment sticking to the deficit reduction programme and removing barriers to growth?

[Danny Alexander]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have to stick to the deficit reduction programme, which is the essential underpinning for future economic growth in this country. We also need to take steps to ensure that that economic growth is balanced across the country, and the regional growth fund and the local enterprise partnership programme are an important part of ensuring that we have growth across the entire United Kingdom.

[Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)]

12. What recent assessment he has made of the rate of job creation in the private sector.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

18. What assessment he has made of the most recent growth forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

Growth forecasts are for the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. In March it forecast the economy to grow by 1.7% in 2011, 2.5% in 2012 and 2.9% in 2013.

[Alison McGovern]

If the OBR embarrasses the Treasury again by downgrading growth forecasts yet again, how will the Government respond?

[Danny Alexander]

As I say, growth forecasts are a matter for the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. I am clear that the deficit reduction programme is essential to ensure that we have confidence in the UK economy. Given that the Opposition caused the mess we are trying to clear up, I hoped the hon. Lady would support that.

[Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con)]

Does the Chief Secretary agree that one of the assessments that we can make on growth is that encouraging job creation in the private sector will see a reversal of the decline in the productivity experienced when the Labour party was in power, and is likely to see growth forecasts continue to rise?

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is right that we need to see the private sector lead the economic recovery. Many of the measures that we announced in “The Plan for Growth”, such as reforms to the planning system, the measures on regulation and some of the tax measures that we announced to support investment, will all help to encourage and support private sector businesses to lead the recovery that we all want to see.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

19. What steps he is taking to reform the regulation of banks and financial institutions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD)]

The spending review said that employee contributions to public sector pensions would need to increase in order to make the funds sustainable for the future. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that rate should not be applied uniformly in order to protect the lowest-paid public sector workers and encourage them to stay within public sector pension schemes?

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander)]

I am grateful for the question. I agree with my hon. Friend. In fact, a similar point has been made by several trade union representatives in the very constructive talks that we are having at the moment, which will be going on over the next few weeks. In applying the increase in pension contributions, it is very important to protect the low-paid so as to minimise the risk of opt-out.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

Repossessions are rising and are up by 17% on the last quarter. That is very reminiscent, sadly, of the conditions under the Conservative Government in the 1990s and the cost and misery caused to families. Will the Chancellor, and perhaps the housing Minister, tell us what direct action he is going to take to support those affected and to restore confidence to the housing market?