(1 day, 18 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Lee Dillon (Newbury) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
The clocks went back at the weekend, and you nearly put them forward again, Mr Speaker.
I am pleased to be here answering my first set of questions as the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. I look forward to my exchanges with the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately), and the other spokespeople in the House.
The state pension age will rise to 67 from 2028. We continue to support later-life planning by helping people review their health, finances and skills—for example, by having specific work coaches for over-50s in our jobcentres. Consideration of the future of the state pension age is already under way, as asked for under the Pensions Act 2014.
Mr Dillon
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new position. In my seat of Newbury, over 5,200 women have been unfairly affected by changes to the state pension age. Those women were wronged through no fault of their own, and they deserve justice. With a High Court hearing due in December, this could be a crucial moment for the Government—a moment to finally do the right thing. Will the Secretary of State now listen to the ombudsman’s recommendations and commit to providing compensation to women of the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign?
Pat McFadden
I have to remind the hon. Member that when his party was in government, it supported the acceleration in the rise of the basic state pension age, and that has given rise to some of the questions he raises. You would not expect me to comment on ongoing litigation, Mr Speaker, and I will not, but I can assure the hon. Member and the House that we will take all relevant factors into account when considering the process for the future.
Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)
Previous to my election to this place, I worked for a homeless charity in Harlow called Streets2Homes. One of its cases involved a man who was homeless due to delays in getting his state pension. How is the Department ensuring that delays like that are not commonplace?
Pat McFadden
We hope that those entitled to the basic state pension receive a seamless and fast service. This is a pension that people contribute to throughout their life, and when they reach state pension age, we of course hope that they get it as soon as possible.
Bobby Dean (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)
Martin Wrigley (Newton Abbot) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
Access to Work does an important job, but current delays with the scheme, and our ambition for an 80% rate of employment, point to the need for reform. The consultation, launched in the “Pathways to Work” Green Paper, closed on 30 June. We are reviewing all aspects of the scheme in the light of the responses that we received.
Bobby Dean
A constituent came to my surgery the other week who felt pretty frustrated that the Access to Work scheme, which once supported him, was pulling the rug from beneath his feet as he progressed in his career. He has been a model example; he has not let his multiple neurodivergent diagnoses hold him back. He has worked hard and, with support, has earned a promotion to a deputy leadership position. At that point, the DWP decided to reassess him, and it downgraded his support—right at the moment when he felt he needed to maintain that support, given his new responsibilities. Can the Minister assure us that when the reforms come, they will ensure that people are supported over the progression of their career, as well as into work in the first place?
Sir Stephen Timms
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Obviously, I do not know the details of the case that he refers to, but it is important that Access to Work and our wider employment support enable people not just to get into work, but to thrive once they are there, exactly as he says.
Marsha De Cordova
The Access to Work scheme provides vital support, and it is one of the best forms of support for blind and partially sighted workers, but when their awards come up for review, they find that their support and awards are being significantly reduced. Given the Government’s commitment to keeping Britain working, will the Minister explain why blind and partially sighted people are seeing their support cut? Will he agree to meet me and sight-loss organisations to see how we can address some of the challenges with the scheme?
Sir Stephen Timms
There has been absolutely no change in the policy on Access to Work, but there has been more scrupulous application of the existing policy and guidance over the last year. That means that Access to Work awards have been more consistent, and I know there have been cases in which support has been reduced. I am looking forward to attending the forthcoming meeting of the all-party group on eye health and visual impairment, which my hon. Friend chairs; that might give us an opportunity to discuss the issues she has raised.
Martin Wrigley
On 20 May, I met the Minister to speak about Access to Work claims that were being denied, changed or reduced, all contrary to the guidelines. The Minister assured me that it was a communications issue, that the guidelines had not changed and that officials were going to fix the problems by speaking to the local jobcentre. The problems were not fixed. Since then, both Dawlish Gardens Trust and the No Limits café in Newton Abbot have ceased to provide Access to Work services because the system just is not working and, they said, every claim was being rejected. That assessment has been mirrored by the Access to Work Collective. Who changed the guidelines, and why? Are they simply being ignored to save money at the cost of vulnerable adults? If the Minister would like more information, I am happy to meet him again.
Sir Stephen Timms
I am very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman again, but I assure him that the policy has not changed. In fact, just last week we published the spending figures on Access to Work, which went up by 17% in the last year and by 32% in the year before that. I do not know what happened in the particular case the hon. Gentleman referred to, but would be happy to look at it further.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
Access to Work is vital. At the high end of the scale, it can sometimes be more expensive. I have in my constituency a very senior person in the world of theatre who runs Graeae theatre. She requires Access to Work support but, even with the right support, there is not enough for her needs, because she needs a British Sign Language interpreter with her at all times. Graeae theatre is at the pinnacle of assessing what people need, and I would love to invite the Minister to visit it, because staff there are great at supporting disabled people into work, with and without Access to Work support.
Sir Stephen Timms
I am aware that a big chunk of Access to Work funding goes on British Sign Language interpretation, and it is not unusual for people who draw on that support to hit the cap, which increased last year and is now £69,920 a year. We will look at that, along with all other aspects of the scheme, in the review we are undertaking.
Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)
Back in May last year, while in opposition, the Labour party was outraged to learn that the average processing time for applications to the Access to Work programme was running at 43.9 days. In fact, so outraged were Labour Members that they made it a manifesto pledge to tackle that problem. After more than 15 months in government, Labour is far from having slashed waiting times; applicants now have to wait an average of 93.6 days. That is more than twice the waiting time under the previous Government. After a year in government, the Labour party has doubled the misery and uncertainty suffered by disabled people—why?
Sir Stephen Timms
We are fixing the very serious problems left behind by the previous Government. The number of people who are processing Access to Work applications has been increased by 118 since May last year, but the hon. Gentleman is right that delays are still a problem. That points clearly to the need for reform, which is what we are getting on with.
Baggy Shanker (Derby South) (Lab/Co-op)
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
Skills are vital to give young people opportunity, for economic growth and to our country’s renewal. That is why, as part of our youth guarantee, we are increasing short courses for high-demand sectors such as artificial intelligence and construction, expanding the number of youth hubs, and partnering with sports clubs to get help to people where they are in the community. Last week, we published the skills White Paper, which sets out the next steps for training the workforce of the future.
Baggy Shanker
I still want every young person in Derby to see technical education and apprenticeships as first-class, not second-best, routes to success. University technical colleges, from which students are four times more likely to progress on to apprenticeships, are key to unlocking that success. Will my right hon. Friend meet Pride Park UTC to discuss its plans to give young people in Derby real choice and real opportunity by rolling out a new technical centre in our city?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend has spoken often about this, and I believe that he started his career as an apprentice. As a former Rolls-Royce worker, he will have noted the skills White Paper, and of course he knows all about the importance of that company to the city of Derby. I congratulate Pride Park UTC on its plans for a new technical skills centre, and I will ensure that he gets a meeting with me or with the relevant Minister.
Helen Hayes
My Committee’s recent report on further education and skills highlights the poor amount of information on vocational and technical training opportunities, including apprenticeships, available to young people while they are in school. We recommend that UCAS be expanded to provide a single portal for information on academic, vocational and technical opportunities, so that every young person is aware of how they can train in the skills that they need to access a good job. Will the Secretary of State consider this recommendation, and work with the Department for Education to deliver it?
Pat McFadden
I welcome that question, as my hon. Friend raises a very important point. If we are going to have equal status for higher education and apprenticeship routes, we should look at how the information about them is disseminated to potential applicants. I hope that she will be pleased to hear that I have already asked the Department to begin work in this area.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
One of the worries about the new regime and Skills England is the loss of independence, and the loss of what we had in the former Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education: a guaranteed business voice, written into law. How will the Secretary of State ensure that business has a voice in setting standards, and in making sure that those standards are upheld, so that everybody can have confidence in the changed system?
Pat McFadden
The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that the business voice and employers’ voice is very important in this. When I wrote the new remit letter to Skills England, I asked it to take into account the views of employers, because it is very important that the skills system is training people in a way that employers want, and that meets the future demands of the labour market.
Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his place, and to his new responsibility for skills. The Government recently reduced the amount of funding for level 7 apprenticeships, so can he tell the House what assessment his Department has made of the potential impact of this reduced funding on the number of nurses in training?
Pat McFadden
The apprenticeships and skills budget, like every other budget, demands choices. We are choosing to prioritise the level that we need in the economy, and the areas where the value is greatest. That does imply certain choices, and I am confident that the choices we have made will benefit the workforce as a whole, and future opportunities.
Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)
Emma Lewell (South Shields) (Lab)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
We are determined to open up opportunities in work for people with health conditions. The Keep Britain Working review will be published soon. In Pathways to Work, we have 1,000 work advisers supporting this group, and we will devolve powers, so that areas can shape their own joined-up local work, health and skills offer.
Steve Race
I recently visited Pluss in Exeter, which supports people living with physical disabilities and mental health conditions back into employment. I met some of the fantastically committed mentors, who provide tailored training and support, helping hundreds of people who have been long-term unemployed into meaningful jobs, boosting their confidence and helping them rebuild their lives. Does the Minister agree that under the last Tory Government, disability employment was shockingly neglected? In contrast, this Government’s recent announcement about Connect to Work funding for Devon will help many more people back into the workplace.
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The disability employment gap has been stuck at around 30 percentage points ever since 2010. What he refers to in his constituency sounds like a great example of exactly the kind of resource we want to draw on in each area to make sure that disabled people have the opportunities in work that they were denied in the past.
Emma Lewell
The Motability scheme provides a lifeline to people with disabilities, allowing them to get to health appointments, study, maintain employment and so much more. Cuts to the scheme risk increased health needs and increased unemployment, which are likely to cost much more than any short-term savings. Does my right hon. Friend agree that before any proposed cuts are implemented, it is vital to carry out a proper impact assessment?
Sir Stephen Timms
I can assure my hon. Friend that there will be no changes to the eligibility conditions for the mobility component of the personal independence payment, or indeed other aspects of PIP, until the conclusion of the review, which I will be leading and co-producing with disabled people. That is expected to report in autumn next year.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
When severe mental illness strikes, it can be devastating and totally debilitating, but the problem from the Department’s point of view is that its symptoms are invisible. There have been reports of people faking mental illness in order to gain benefits. Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that his Department has appropriate checks in place?
Sir Stephen Timms
Yes, appropriate checks are in place. As I have just mentioned, we are undertaking a review of the PIP assessment, and we will need to look carefully, together with disabled people, at the way in which those decisions and judgments are made.
Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)
At a recent roundtable at the Eyres Monsell club for young people in my constituency, parents told me that their young adults with learning difficulties, who volunteered for years, often with major supermarkets, still struggle to secure work. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that young people with high-functioning learning disabilities in long-term volunteering roles can access clear pathways into paid employment?
Sir Stephen Timms
The hon. Gentleman raises a very good point. He will have seen, as many hon. Members will have done, recent publicity about a particular case of this kind. At the moment, the proportion of people with severe learning disabilities who are in employment is tiny, so we are working with employers and some very good supported internship programmes in the hope of opening up opportunities for work, and I hope we will see many more opportunities in the future. We appointed an expert panel earlier this year to look at how better to support people with neurodivergence into work, and the panel is coming forward with some interesting proposals.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
Health Equity North recently produced an analysis for the Select Committee that revealed that getting just 5% of people with disabilities or health conditions into employment would yield cost savings of over £12 billion. What progress is being made with employers to enable sick and disabled people who want to work, and are able to do so, to get into employment?
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend raises an important point. I agree with her about the tremendous value, for the people who benefit and for the economy more widely, of opening up opportunities in employment in the way that she described. That is exactly what the Keep Britain Working review, led by Sir Charlie Mayfield, is looking at. I am looking forward to Sir Charlie’s report, and I am sure my hon. Friend will find it interesting. I expect it to be published quite soon.
Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)
Four thousand people in Somerset, many of them with disabilities, are being transitioned from employment and support allowance to universal credit. They were assured that they would not lose out, but one constituent waited three months with no income at all, until an intervention by me and the Department. Somerset was not warned about this transition, which is causing it huge difficulties with assessing the implications for council tax benefits. What steps will the Minister take to ensure that, just as people were told, they will not lose out in the transition to universal credit?
Sir Stephen Timms
I am not sure why the news of the transition did not reach Somerset; the plans have been quite well publicised. We have put in place a careful enhanced support journey for people, including a number of people on ESA, who might struggle with the transition. The hon. Gentleman raises a particular case, but if there are other cases where there are difficulties, we are able to provide extra support to ensure that people can make the transition without hardship.
Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
Some 975,000 people are being paid carer’s allowance in England and Wales, including some 900 people in the hon. Member’s constituency.
Dr Chambers
We all know that carers give everything to care for their loved ones—physically, emotionally and financially. The Government received the carer’s allowance report three months ago, and under Lib Dem pressure have agreed to publish it by the end of the year. Do we know how many carers will be unfairly penalised in the six months between the Government receiving the report and publishing it?
Sir Stephen Timms
I agree with the hon. Member’s characterisation of the degree of commitment and sacrifice being made by very large numbers of carers right across the country. As he has said, the report, which we commissioned from Liz Sayce, will be published by the end of the year, together with the Government’s response—and his question will be addressed in that response.
Kirsteen Sullivan (Bathgate and Linlithgow) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
When we came to office, almost 1 million young people were not in education, employment or training. This Government are determined to offer young people proper opportunities. Our youth guarantee will ensure that 18 to 21-year-olds are learning or earning, helping to prevent them from becoming economically inactive almost before their careers have even begun. As my hon. Friend might have seen, the Chancellor has announced that a jobs guarantee scheme will be a future part of this work.
Kirsteen Sullivan
With one in six young Scots not in education, employment or training, including hundreds across my constituency, I welcome the Government’s youth guarantee to give young people the training or job support they need. However, with stubborn youth unemployment, the Scottish Government’s swingeing cuts to the college sector and employers warning that Scottish apprenticeships are less favourable than those in England, how will the Secretary of State work to ensure that young people across the UK can benefit from this Government’s ambition?
Pat McFadden
Not for the first time, we have to point out that the Scottish Government have benefited from the biggest financial settlement since the introduction of devolution. It should not be too much to expect that at least a proportion of that should be spent on expanding opportunity for young people in my hon. Friend’s constituency and throughout Scotland. Scotland has given so much to the world in creativity and innovation, and it is absolutely critical that the next generation of young Scots get the chance to do the same.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Skills bootcamps in Cumbria have provided a great opportunity: 60 hours of training for young people in disciplines as varied as coding, scaffolding and project management. The cost to deliver those bootcamps across the whole of Cumbria is £2.7 million—chicken feed compared with the benefit that those young people and their future employers get out of them. What conversations has the Secretary of State had with his friends in the Treasury to ensure that that scheme is maintained and continued?
Pat McFadden
I am always having conversations with my friends in the Treasury. I agree with the hon. Member that flexibility and some short courses in the skills and training system are very important. Not everything has to be done according to the exact same formula and recipe, and shorter training courses have a big part to play.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his new job and wish him luck in it—especially because, with every day that passes under this Government, we see fewer people enjoying the chance to start a new job. Unemployment has gone up month after month. Nearly 1 million young people are not in education, employment or training because of this Government’s policies, jobs tax and business red tape; even the Pensions Minister’s former think-tank agrees with me. People all around the country are out looking for work—young people who want to get on in life and all those trying to provide for their families—so can the Secretary of State tell us and them when he will get unemployment down?
Pat McFadden
The hon. Lady has a short memory. The Government in which she served presided over the biggest slowdown in living standards in recent memory, and there are 358,000 more people in work now than there were at the start of the year. We will keep supporting young people into work and will change the system that we inherited, which had the wrong incentives and a lack of support. We are putting both of those things to rights.
Helen Whately
No surprises there, Mr Speaker; the Prime Minister can put new faces on the Front Bench, but they still do not have the answers. The right hon. Gentleman criticised the previous Conservative Government, but we got unemployment down to a 40-year low—a record Labour could only dream of. The Government do not want to be held to account. Worse still, the right hon. Gentleman knows that what he is doing will not work, because the country is looking down the barrel of more tax rises in next month’s Budget, which will kill yet more jobs and opportunities. Whether it is graduates looking for their first job or older people being made redundant, people are crying out for a Government who are on their side. What will it take to get the Chancellor to understand that it is businesses that create jobs, not the Government, and does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the more the Chancellor damages the economy, the bigger the welfare bill will get?
Pat McFadden
Since we came into office, interest rates have been cut five times, helping businesses and households. According to Lloyds, business confidence is at a nine-year high, and there is to be much more private investment, including the £150 billion announced during the recent state visit. Add to that the trade deals that the Conservatives could not secure—there are reasons to be optimistic about the future of the economy and I hope the hon. Lady shares them.
Seamus Logan (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State co-chairs the ministerial child poverty taskforce, which is leading our work across Government to develop the UK-wide child poverty strategy, which will be published later this year. We are considering all available levers to give every child the best start in life, building on work that is already under way across all four nations. Ahead of publication, the Government have already taken action for the whole UK, including introducing a fair repayment rate and improving the adequacy of the standard allowance of universal credit from April 2026.
Seamus Logan
The Child Poverty Action Group estimates that because of this Government’s policies—especially the two-child cap—more than 100 children are dragged into poverty every day. That equates to almost 3,400 children between now and the Chancellor’s autumn statement at the end of next month. Here is a lever: as child poverty in Scotland is falling, why does the Minister not finally listen to reason by scrapping this cruel policy? Why is he waiting? Why does he not just act now?
Andrew Western
This Government are acting now. We have already announced that all children in families in England that are in receipt of universal credit will receive free school meals, lifting 100,000 children out of poverty. We have capped the cost of school uniforms, and introduced a new crisis and resilience fund. Our Child Maintenance Service reforms will lift 20,000 children out of poverty, and much more will be done when the child poverty taskforce reports later this year.
Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)
Despite what those on the far right try to claim, the cost of living crisis remains the main issue that people face. One way to really help struggling families would be to lift the two-child benefit cap—that would lift hundreds of thousands of children across the country out of poverty, including many in my constituency. Is it not the case that the forthcoming Budget should announce that the two-child benefit cap will be scrapped?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend will understand that I am not going to make policy from the Dispatch Box. What I would say to him, as I have already said to the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan), is that all available levers are under consideration as part of our child poverty taskforce, which will report later this year. We will do what it takes to bear down on child poverty. There are many levers that we can look at using to do so; we have pulled some already, and we will continue that work.
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
Every Member in this Chamber shares a commitment to lifting people out of poverty, especially children; we just have different views on how to go about it. Children in workless households are nearly four times more likely to live in poverty than those in households where adults work. We know that work pays, yet we on the Conservative Benches find ourselves surrounded by parties that are just itching to scrap the two-child benefit cap, resorting to yet more sticking plasters, like universal breakfast clubs, to reduce uncomfortable figures without putting in the hard work to tackle their causes. Does the Minister share my concern that lifting the two-child benefit cap will increase worklessness, and can he guarantee that taxes will not go up in next month’s Budget for adults who work hard and make careful decisions about family size in order to pay for the £3.6 billion it will cost to lift that cap?
Andrew Western
I am stunned to hear that the fight that the Opposition Front Benchers are choosing to pick on this occasion is opposing universal free breakfast clubs, when we know that well-fed children have hungry minds. [Interruption.] For those chirping from a sedentary position, that is exactly what the shadow Minister. What I find even more staggering are the lectures from an Opposition who left almost 3 million people in this country economically inactive and around 1 million young people out of work. They dragged 900,000 children into poverty, when the last Labour Government lifted 600,000 out. It is the last Labour Government who we will be taking lessons from, not the last Tory one.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
I note that last year the new Secretary of State for Work and Pensions said that it is open to debate as to whether the two-child limit is harmful. I note also that this policy has been the most impactful in driving children—more than 730,000 of them—into poverty. Will the Minister acknowledge that the two-child limit is harmful and work with Treasury colleagues to overturn it?
Andrew Western
I am happy to acknowledge the findings of the Child Poverty Action Group, which I think has put forward the statistics that the hon. Gentleman sets out. I remind him and all Members of this House that this is not the only lever available to us and that all levers are under active consideration. I also remind him, as I have reminded other colleagues, of the steps that this Government have already taken, including the roll-out of free school meals to all families in receipt of universal credit, which alone will lift 100,000 children out of poverty.
Claire Young (Thornbury and Yate) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
The skills White Paper, which we published last week, will create more opportunities. As I said in response to an earlier question, my remit letter to Skills England makes clear the importance of working closely with employers. Employers have told us that they want more flexibility in the apprenticeships levy, so the growth and skills offer is delivering that, with more foundation courses and short courses launching next year.
Claire Young
At a recent roundtable meeting in my Thornbury and Yate constituency, small businesses told me about the particular challenges they face in delivering apprenticeships. Given that the Secretary of State’s Department is now responsible for this important policy area, what is he doing to reform apprenticeships to make them easier for small and medium-sized enterprises to deliver, and what support will he provide so that more can do so?
Pat McFadden
We want apprenticeships to be available to employers of all sizes. We have reduced the length of time an apprenticeship needs to take, and I think we can go further with short course flexibility, which should be particularly helpful to small and medium-sized employers.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
I recently visited Premier Forest Products in Newport to learn more about the vocational training and employment opportunities that the business is offering to care-experienced young school leavers in Newport, with some wonderful success stories. Will the Department look at the model that company is creating and can the Secretary of State say more about how the Government are working with businesses to make sure that such opportunities are more accessible for people from all backgrounds, including those who are care-experienced?
Pat McFadden
I am happy to look at the experience of that particular employer. I enjoyed a recent visit to a different part of south Wales to open an opportunity hub, which is aimed precisely at getting more young people into work, particularly those who have been out of the labour market through long-term sickness issues. We want to support Wales in doing that, and we have allocated an extra £10 million to this work over the coming year.
Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)
I obviously recognise the challenges facing those without inflation protection, particularly after the cost of living pressures of recent years, and I think that recognition is shared by Members on both sides of the House. I met a cross-party group of MPs earlier this year to discuss exactly this issue. Reforms in the Pension Schemes Bill give trustees more flexibility to share surpluses in their DB pension schemes with employers, and to negotiate for members to benefit from any such sharing of surpluses. That could include discretionary increases to address the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith).
Dame Nia Griffith
As a result of the efforts of pensioner associations, we know that there have been unintended consequences of the Pensions Act 1995, which made it legal to stop payment of indexation to the pre-1997 pensioners of successful multinationals such as 3M and Hewlett Packard Enterprise, who, having been recruited with the promise of index-linked pensions, are now suffering hardship. Their pensions have already been frozen for at least 15 years, despite healthy funds and trustees’ pleas. What will the Minister do to stop this dishonourable practice, so that these companies deliver the financial security that they promised?
Torsten Bell
I absolutely recognise the issue that my hon. Friend has raised: any of us in that situation would want those pension increases to continue. She is aware of the legal background, but I should point out that scheme rules govern when inflation-linked increases can be paid. They are not changed retrospectively, but the Pensions Regulator has spelt out that trustees should consider those who are not receiving inflation-linked increases when making their decisions, and should also consider the history of making such awards—particularly in some of the examples that my hon. Friend has given. As I have said, I think that the provisions in the Pension Scheme Bill give trustees more power to argue for those increases.
Helen Morgan
I have been contacted by a constituent who, along with her husband, worked for Hewlett Packard. They accrued their pensions before 1997, and now, along with about 50,000 members of the Pre-97 Alliance, they are facing real financial hardship. In 10 years’ time, their pensions will be pretty much worthless. Will the Minister not consider legislating to ensure that these people are not left in poverty, having been promised proper pensions when they started work for the companies concerned?
Torsten Bell
The hon. Lady has mentioned a specific company, although a small number of others are in the same position. I am sure that not only the people running that company but the trustees will have heard the powerful case made by Members on both sides of the House. These decisions must be made in line with the scheme rules, but no one wants savers to see the value of their pensions fall over time, and I hope that employers will take the case being made in the Chamber seriously.
Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
It is unacceptable that 23% of children in Cornwall are living in relative poverty. We will set out measures to tackle its structural and root causes in our child poverty strategy later in the year.
Ben Maguire
Child poverty cannot be tackled if children have nowhere safe to live. One of the most shameful legacies of the last Tory Government was Cornwall being left with more than 700 children living in temporary accommodation, while only 1.4% of homes are now affordable to families receiving the local housing allowance. What assessment has the Minister made of the extent to which that shortfall in affordable homes is driving child poverty rates even higher, and what urgent steps will he take to reverse it?
Andrew Western
The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the appalling living standards and conditions in which some children—and, indeed, some members of the broader population—find themselves living. My advice to any Liberal Democrat Member would of course be to stop blocking the homes that we so desperately need. Let me also remind the hon. Gentleman that this Government have invested £39 billion in the delivery of social and affordable homes, because, unlike the Liberal Democrats, the Labour party is determined to tackle the housing crisis and to “build, baby, build”.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. This is a Cornish question, and I am calling Perran Moon, so I ask others please not to stand.
Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)
Meur ras, Mr Speaker.
I represent the most deprived constituency in Cornwall, which is itself one of the most deprived areas in northern Europe. Child poverty shot up under the Conservatives. Today our local further education college—Cornwall college, rated “outstanding” by Ofsted—is turning away young learners in construction and engineering because of a lack of space. The college has a solution allowing it to expand, but will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the issue and help our amazing young people to break this cycle of deprivation?
Andrew Western
I am sorry to hear of the situation that my hon. Friend has outlined. If the Secretary of State is unable to meet him, I would be more than happy to do so.
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
The trailblazers are up and running and have been delivering support for young people since earlier this year. That includes, for example, mental health support and flexible work experience sessions. We have extended the programme for a further year, bringing the total funding to £90 million. The insights from those trailblazers will inform the national roll-out of our youth guarantee.
Patricia Ferguson
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the actions of this Government, in supporting young people, are in stark contrast to the situation in Scotland, where we have had 18 years of SNP neglect, with the college sector suffering a 20% cut over the past five years? Does he also agree that, as the energy sector in Scotland transitions to greener forms of energy production, the jobs and skills needed to bolster that industry could be taught at those colleges, and that we risk having a double whammy of young people not being able to take on these important jobs, while lecturers are paid off and our colleges are in dire financial straits?
Pat McFadden
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of the energy transition. As I said, the Scottish Government are receiving the largest spending review settlement in real terms since devolution was established. We know that young people in Scotland have the talent, but are their Government backing them by giving them the opportunity? We believe that a proportion of those funds should be devoted to that. I am pleased to say that, for example, BAE Systems will be a major beneficiary of the £10 billion deal to build Type 26 frigates for Norway—a critical investment in European security, and one that I hope the Scottish Government have got around to supporting.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his place and wish him well in his new role. I am quite confident that he will give us all the answers we wish to have. Northern Ireland continues to have a higher proportion of young people not in employment, education or training—some 11% to 13%—compared with the UK average, so what discussions has he had with the relevant Minister in Northern Ireland to ensure that the necessary support and opportunities are provided to young people in Northern Ireland?
Pat McFadden
There should be no part of the United Kingdom in which we do not give young people the maximum opportunity. I had a good working relationship with the Northern Ireland Executive in my previous post, and I hope to have a good working relationship with them in this post, with the shared agenda of giving our young people the best possible chance in life.
Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
Work coaches are required to tailor work-related requirements to claimants’ capabilities and circumstances, and they can pause them if that is appropriate.
Josh Babarinde
My constituent Ross has neurodiversities and is in employment, working at a garden centre, but his income is supplemented by universal credit. After inadvertently missing a telephone appointment with a job coach, he was sanctioned, losing out on two months-worth of rent, and he risked being made homeless and losing his job if his parents had not been there to step in. Can the Minister assure folks such as Ross that they will be powered up by our benefits system, not punished when they make innocent mistakes?
Sir Stephen Timms
We certainly do want the system to support people such as Ross. If work-related requirements are missed, the reason for that should be asked for, with seven days allowed for an answer. There should also be a pre-referral check before a sanction referral takes place. If the hon. Gentleman would like to send me the details of what happened in that particular case, I will happily look into it.
Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Pat McFadden)
I am very conscious of the responsibilities of the Department, which touches millions of lives in this country every month. We have joined up skills and employment support in the Department to bring the skills system closer to the labour market, and, as part of our youth guarantee, we have announced that it will include a backstop jobs guarantee. Together with that and Connect to Work, we are both tackling the incentives in the system and providing critical support, because my priority is to have a welfare state that looks after people when times are tough, but also provides a platform of opportunity to help get them out of welfare and into work.
Catherine Fookes
At the Conservative party conference, the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury called for the state pension to be means-tested. This has caused deep concern to pensioners in Monmouthshire who have worked hard all their lives and built up modest savings. Under the Conservative party’s plans, they would risk losing their state pension. Will the Secretary of State confirm that, under this Labour Government, the state pension will remain available to all?
Pat McFadden
I am happy to say that what my hon. Friend says about means-testing is not the Government’s policy, but can the Conservatives confirm whether it is theirs? The shadow Chief Secretary let the cat out of the bag. Can she confirm that this is not her policy, or is it that her leader still sticks to the position she set out earlier this year when she said:
“We are going to look at means-testing”?
Are they still looking at it, or are they not?
Mr Speaker
The good thing is that the Government are only responsible for their own problems. I call the shadow Secretary of the State.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
Indeed, questions are to be answered by the Government on this occasion.
The right hon. Gentleman has an important and not always easy job. I am sure that we all remember the fiasco before the summer when the Government tried to make welfare savings and ended up legislating for welfare spending. Since then, the Prime Minister has said that there is a “clear moral case” for welfare cuts, and the Chancellor has said that she “can’t leave welfare untouched”. Does the Secretary of State agree?
Pat McFadden
I notice that the hon. Lady did not want to clarify the position on means-testing the state pension. Welfare reform is happening all the time. We passed important changes to the universal credit system that were voted through by the House and, as I said, we are putting in place important employment support to help not only long-term sick and disabled people but young people into work through many of the policies that I have talked about today.
Helen Whately
I cannot help but notice that the Secretary of State continues to attempt to deflect from his job of answering the questions. The fact is, we just heard that he will not commit to making the welfare savings that his Prime Minister and his Chancellor have said they need to make. I thought the Prime Minister was meant to be in charge.
Getting people off welfare and into work not only saves money; it is morally wrong to condemn people to a life on benefits. Without welfare reform, this country is stuck on Labour’s broken record of higher taxes and lower growth. We have even offered to help the Secretary of State, so why will he not commit to making welfare savings?
Pat McFadden
We inherited a situation that had 3 million people inactive and almost 1 million people not in employment, education or training. We are putting in place critical employment support to help long-term sick and disabled people into work, we have changed the incentives through legislation on the universal credit system, and we are increasing the number of face-to-face checks in the system, which fell on the Conservatives’ watch. What do people think it fell by? Do we think it fell by 10%? Do we think it fell by 30%? No, it fell by 90% under the system over which the hon. Lady’s Government presided.
Peter Lamb (Crawley) (Lab)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
Demand for Access to Work has risen sharply. I mentioned earlier that spending went up by 17% over the past year, but I do not think Access to Work can replace a well-designed support programme. That is what we are determined to put in place, and the Department’s new, independent disability advisory panel will help us work out the best approaches to employment support.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
The Government have made a promise that those transferring from legacy benefits to universal credit will find themselves no worse off, yet Liberal Democrat colleagues from all over the country are finding that people are worse off. Will the Minister share evidence of how the Government are supporting the most vulnerable where they find themselves worse off?
Sir Stephen Timms
Transitional protection is available for people making the transition across, and I spoke earlier about the support being provided through the enhanced support journey to people for whom the transition may be particularly difficult. I am thinking, for example, about some people on employment and support allowance. If the hon. Member is worried about particular cases and would like to send me the details, I am very happy to look at them.
Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)
Pat McFadden
People should not be denied the opportunity to work, which is why the Department has backed the economic inactivity trailblazer in the north-east with £10 million this year and a further £10 million next year. It is testing new ways to help people overcome barriers to work. We are determined to turn around the situation that we inherited from the Conservative party, and we are working closely with the excellent Mayor of the North East to bring these policies together.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Sir Stephen Timms
The hon. Member raises an important point, and I agree about the importance of not wasting talent in the future. That is the reason for the reforms we are introducing. Earlier this year we set up an expert panel to advise us on how best to support people with neurodivergence into employment, building on the work of Sir Robert Buckland and his review of autism employment in the last Parliament. We have now received that advice from the expert panel and are considering how to take that work forward.
Lee Pitcher (Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
I thank my hon. Friend for his question. The Government plan to consult on changes to the calculation that will automatically capture more income types within that calculation. Where parents wilfully avoid their financial obligations, the CMS financial investigation unit does have the powers to act and will investigate. Child maintenance is key to keeping children out of poverty, and we will use these powers wherever necessary.
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
Sir Stephen Timms
I would be very happy to look into the particular case the hon. Member raises. Of course, an appeal process is available, so I hope that her constituent has submitted an appeal. If she lets me have the details, I will gladly have a look at the case.
Joe Powell (Kensington and Bayswater) (Lab)
Pat McFadden
The Spear programme was one of the first organisations to go through an evaluation with the data lab a few years ago. I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that the findings from that were really positive, and I am delighted that his constituency is located in one of the youth guarantee trailblazer areas. As we have reiterated several times, it is crucial that we do everything we can to help young people into work and address the issue, which we inherited, of people not in employment, education or training.
Liz Jarvis (Eastleigh) (LD)
Sir Stephen Timms
There is a problem in the interaction between housing benefit, which provides housing support for people in supported accommodation, and housing support in the universal credit system. That interaction does cause difficulties, and I think that is what the hon. Lady is referring to. We are looking at that at the moment. We are talking to other parts of government and working with people such as YMCA and Centrepoint to look at the problem and what we can do to fix it.
Frank McNally (Coatbridge and Bellshill) (Lab)
Andrew Western
The Department is prioritising ensuring that there is adequate staffing resource available to support claimants and deliver migration smoothly and on time. I am concerned to hear what my hon. Friend says about the experience of his constituents in Coatbridge and Bellshill. I will look into this issue further on his behalf and report back to him.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
The Trussell Trust recently reported that three in 10 people who were referred to food banks in 2024 were in working households and that the majority, 72%, were on universal credit. What more can the Government do to ensure that work pays and we can take low-paid workers out of poverty?
Pat McFadden
I recently spoke at an event in Parliament hosted by that organisation. I am pleased to say that its report said there had been a small drop in the use of food banks over the past year. We have put the household support fund, now the crisis and resilience fund, on a proper basis for the next three years to support those families in the most desperate need.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Ind)
Giving sick and disabled people agency and drawing on lived experience sets the only path to getting policy right, so that they can access work appointments and get out of their homes, avoiding worklessness, health decline and isolation, with their mobility support needs recognised through PIP. Further to the Minister’s previous answer, will he ensure that any policy reforms to PIP mobility payments are fully co-produced with sick and disabled people?
Sir Stephen Timms
I can reassure my hon. Friend that the review of the PIP assessment, including the mobility element of that benefit, will be undertaken fully in co-production with disabled people and disabled people’s organisations. I will be setting out very shortly how the review I am going to be leading will be undertaken.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland and Fakenham) (Con)
Business is crying out that the Employment Rights Bill will cost jobs. Now, the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, the spiritual home of the Secretary of State— [Laughter.]—says it will cripple the jobs market, especially for young people. It is not a laughing matter. What is the Secretary of State’s view? Will the Employment Rights Bill help his Department to increase employment, or will it cost even more jobs?
Pat McFadden
It should be no surprise that a Labour party supports better rights at work for people. History is replete with warnings that better employment rights would result in fewer jobs. Those were the warnings the Conservative party gave when we introduced the national minimum wage many, many years ago. Of course, it is important that when legislating on these issues we do it closely in consultation with employers. That is precisely what we intend to do.
Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) (Lab)
Some 47% of children in my constituency live in poverty. The Minister mentioned that he will consider all levers. Does that include speaking with the Treasury to look at a wealth tax to bring in much-needed money to the Treasury to remove the two-child cap?
Pat McFadden
As we have discussed a number of times, of course we want to reduce child poverty. My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that, when it comes to tax, that is a matter for the Chancellor and not for me.
Iqbal Mohamed (Dewsbury and Batley) (Ind)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his place and wish him well. Last week, I attended a drop-in for the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign where I was informed that there are currently 4,320 women in Dewsbury and Batley affected by the WASPI scandal. That number was previously higher, but many of the women have already passed away without justice. On 27 July I wrote to the former Secretary of State regarding her support for the WASPI campaign after being contacted by more than 40 of my constituents, but I have yet to receive a response. With the Government still refusing to engage in civil mediation to deliver justice to the WASPI women, will the new Secretary of State reconsider meeting campaigners to find a just way forward?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)
The previous Minister for Pensions met representatives of the WASPI campaign in order to hear directly from them about their experiences. She was the first Minister to do so in eight years. I will look into the details of the letter the hon. Gentleman mentions.
Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)
I welcome the Secretary of State to his office and thank the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Andrew Western), for a recent visit to the DWP debt and fraud centre in my constituency. There are 95 jobs at the centre doing tremendous work across the UK, proving that civil service job dispersal does work. Is this not a template for other Departments and an example to the SNP Government in Scotland, who have dispersed no jobs, no power and no funds from Edinburgh?
Andrew Western
I endorse everything my hon. Friend has said. I had a fantastic visit to the very beautiful constituency that he is fortunate enough to represent, where I saw exactly what can happen through our places for growth initiative, which looks to relocate jobs out of London and into places such as Stornoway.
Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)
I have met many pensionable-age constituents, most of whom live on the Duck estate, who have lost their entitlement to pension credit because of as little as 50p. Does the Minister agree that pension credit, the employment and support allowance and PIP assistance could all do with more common sense and a little less of a “computer says no” mentality?
Torsten Bell
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. In general, lots of life could do with less “computer says no”, so on that basis we will agree. On the specifics of the question she raises about pension credit, the nature of the system is obviously that it provides a guaranteed level of income; it is not setting out an entitlement like universal credit, so there does have to be a limit somewhere, and I am afraid that that does mean that some people will always be on one side of it. What we do not want to see in a system is too many things in that winner-takes-all perspective—I take the point she raises.
Leigh Ingham (Stafford) (Lab)
I recently visited Drake Hall women’s prison in my constituency of Stafford, Eccleshall and the villages, which has the brilliant initiative of a Halfords training centre to support people into employment once they leave the prison estate. It supports people all over the country, not just in my constituency. Can the Secretary of State tell me what conversations are happening with the Ministry of Justice about supporting or expanding schemes like that?
Pat McFadden
That sounds like an excellent initiative. Of course, if we are to rehabilitate prisoners, it is important that they get training and the chance to get into constructive employment after their sentence. I am sure that that applies not just to the prison in my hon. Friend’s constituency but throughout the country.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
Alan Marnes is a constituent of mine in Southoe who has staunchly campaigned since 2002 on the issue of the lack of indexation for pre-1997 pension rights, having been one of 140,000 people who lost their occupational pension. I wrote to the Secretary of State more than two months ago asking whether the newly revived Pensions Commission will address the issue of failed pension funds and I have still not received a response. Will the Secretary of State agree to meet me and Alan to provide some much-needed clarity on such a long-standing issue?
Torsten Bell
I am not absolutely clear whether the particular case that the hon. Gentleman is raising relates to people within the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme or to a pre-1997 indexation within a solvent pension scheme, but if he writes to me with the details I will absolutely make sure that I come back to him.
Steve Witherden (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr) (Lab)
One in three children in my constituency is growing up in poverty. With the Budget approaching, what discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer about scrapping the two-child limit—a policy widely recognised as one of the biggest drivers of child poverty in Britain today?
Pat McFadden
We have already taken action to reduce child poverty, by extending free school meals to all families on universal credit, and we will of course explore other avenues. We want to reduce child poverty—in stark contrast to the record of the Conservatives.
Sir Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)
When my constituents move into new social housing, they find it stripped of perfectly good white goods, curtains, carpets and so on. What can the Government do to address this? It is driving my constituents further into poverty and benefit dependency. It is also environmentally destructive. Surely there is a way through this issue, so can I call on the Minister to work with others across Government to address it?
Andrew Western
The right hon. Gentleman raises an important issue. It might be better raised at questions to the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, but as he asks me to pick this up with Ministers across Departments, I am happy to do so. I can tell him that the crisis and resilience fund—formerly the household support fund—is in place to support people setting up in their new homes, as are grants that are available from housing associations directly.