Under-occupancy Penalty

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will make a statement on the Court of Appeal ruling that the bedroom tax has caused discrimination, contrary to article 14 of the European convention on human rights.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

We know there are people who need extra support. That is why we are providing local authorities with discretionary housing payment funding. Local authorities are best placed to assess people’s needs in their area and identify where extra support is needed.

We have increased the amount of discretionary housing payment available. On top of the £560 million since 2011, we are providing an extra £870 million over the next five years. The people involved in these cases are receiving discretionary housing payments. That is precisely why we have discretionary housing payments, and shows that these are working.

We welcome the fact that the High Court and the Court of Appeal both ruled that the public sector equality duty had been met in respect to women. Furthermore, we have won a Court of Appeal ruling where the court ruled in our favour on the policy of the spare room subsidy. In that judgment, the court found that the discretionary housing payments were an appropriate means of support for those who are vulnerable. So this is a complex area and in terms of these two latest cases, it is a very narrow ruling.

On these cases, the High Court found in our favour and we fundamentally disagree with yesterday’s Court of Appeal ruling on the ECHR. This is not a case of people losing money, for in these cases they are in receipt of discretionary housing payments. This is about whether it is possible to define such exemptions or whether direct housing payments through local authorities give the right flexibility to help a wide range of those in need. The Court of Appeal itself has already granted us permission to appeal, and we will be appealing to the Supreme Court.

[Owen Smith]

May I start by saying that I am flabbergasted by that response and I am flabbergasted that the Secretary of State, to whom I asked the question, is once more ducking his responsibilities?

We knew the bedroom tax was cruel, but we now know it is illegal, and this decisive ruling from the Court of Appeal should mark the end of this pernicious policy. The ruling could not be any clearer: the bedroom tax is unlawful and discriminatory.

The Court of Appeal considered two cases against the Secretary of State, who once again is not prepared to defend his policy: one from a victim of rape who had had a panic room installed by the police; and one from the Rutherford family, whom I know personally, and to whom I pay tribute here today both for the care they provide for their severely disabled grandson, Warren, and for the bravery they have shown in taking on the Secretary of State.

In both instances, the court ruled that the bedroom tax had caused “discrimination”. It found, moreover, that the

“admitted discrimination…has not been justified by the Secretary of State”.

So the question for the Minister—in place of the missing Secretary of State—is what does this ruling mean for the 450,000 families currently affected by the bedroom tax? If the Government are appealing to the Supreme Court, as, extraordinarily, it seems they are, can the Minister tell us on what specific grounds they are appealing? Crucially, as a matter of urgency, will the Government immediately exempt the two groups that have found to have been discriminated against from paying the bedroom tax: victims of domestic violence and the families of severely disabled children?

Can the Minister confirm there are 280 victims of domestic abuse who have had a panic room installed under the sanctuary scheme and who are affected by this policy? Can he further confirm that exempting victims of domestic abuse would only cost the Government £200,000 a year? By comparison, can he tell us how many hundreds of thousands of pounds he has already spent on legal fees defending this vile policy, and how much more he is prepared to defend? Does he have a blank cheque to defend this to the end?

Can the Minister also tell us how many families with severely disabled children are currently paying the bedroom tax? Will he inform the House what proportion of domestic violence victims and families with disabled children are in receipt of discretionary housing payments? This ruling was on two specific grounds, but will the Minister confirm that the bedroom tax is failing in every regard? He talks of discretionary housing payments, but his own Government’s report, which was dumped before Christmas, admitted that 75% of victims did not receive DHP, that three quarters of those hit by the bedroom tax were cutting back on food, that only 5% had been able to move and that 80% regularly ran out of money.

Politics is about choices, and the choice that faced the Secretary of State today was very clear. He could have come to the House and admitted that this was a rotten policy that was punishing poor people across the country, and he could have scrapped it. Instead, he is sitting on the Front Bench before going back to Caxton House to consult his lawyers in order to defend this policy against the victims of domestic violence and the parents of disabled children. We know the choice he took.

[Justin Tomlinson]

To be absolutely clear, this is about whether it is possible to find such exemptions or whether direct housing payments through local authorities give the right flexibility to help a wide range of those in need, and we will be appealing this to the Supreme Court. If we try to set strict categories, people—especially those with unique circumstances and issues—could fall just below an artificial line, meaning that they would miss out. Is it realistic to expect that here in London we could set such an exhaustive list? Direct housing payments, for which we are providing £870 million over the next five years, give flexibility that allows us to work with organisations such as the police, social services and medical professionals to provide a co-ordinated level of support underwritten by the public sector equality duty.

It is right to say that politicians face choices. When the local housing allowance was introduced into the private sector under the last Labour Government, no additional support was provided to those in the private sector who faced exactly the same challenges as those we are discussing here. Why have things changed so much now? We keep making references to taxes. What about the 1.7 million people on the social housing waiting list? What about the 241,000 people in overcrowded accommodation? The Opposition have scant regard for them, but they are the people we are speaking for, and it is right to provide flexibility and a co-ordinated approach. This is the right thing to do.

[Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that this is an issue of fairness, and that it is about giving help to people who are stuck in overcrowded accommodation and waiting on social housing lists?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. In our casework, we all talk to families who are on housing waiting lists. There are 1.7 people on waiting lists across England and 241,000 people living in overcrowded accommodation. It is absolutely right that we are trying to match the right accommodation to people’s individual needs.

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

I cannot believe that we have just heard someone from the Tory Back Benches saying that this is about fairness, because that is exactly what this is about. Is it not a disgrace, given that this is the policy of the Secretary of State, that he should be sitting there whispering into the ear of his Minister? He is quite clearly out of his depth on this, as he is on so many other things. The decision in the courts follows a series of embarrassments for the Secretary of State, and there is also the matter of a United Nations investigation into the UK Government’s welfare policies. The SNP Scottish Government have committed £90 million to mitigating the effects of the bedroom tax in Scotland to stop, among other things, the threat of eviction being imposed on many through this Dickensian Tory policy. We will end the bedroom tax when we have the powers to do so. If the Secretary of State will not heed the warnings of the SNP, will he at least listen to the rulings of some of the highest courts, scrap this unfair and discriminatory tax and think again about the pursuance of these most damaging cuts to vital support for some of the most disadvantaged in society? Parliament in London did not stop this disastrous policy. Thank heavens the courts are intervening. It is little wonder that the Tories are so unpopular in Scotland. They have returned to being the nasty party that they were under Thatcher. This time under Cameron, Osborne and—

[Ian Blackford]

In conclusion, I echo the words of the Court of Appeal. This policy is discriminatory and unlawful. Will he commit to scrapping this draconian policy?

[Justin Tomlinson]

In fairness, I am the Minister who responds on housing issues in Parliament. In terms of fairness, we all talk to families on the housing waiting list. Try explaining to them why we should not make more of the accommodation available to them. We have already provided greater flexibility in Scotland through devolution to do what you wish to do with discretionary housing payments.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Clearly, we shall all wait for the Supreme Court judgment that will be delivered in due course, but two points must be clear today. Does the Minister agree that the incredible indignation expressed by the shadow Minister is blown apart by the fact that the family in question are receiving exactly the same amount of benefits as they were before the introduction of the spare bedroom subsidy? The Opposition’s opportunism is shown clearly by the fact that they took away the spare room subsidy from the much larger number of people in the private rented sector.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is right. The people in these cases are in receipt of payment, which shows that discretionary housing payments work. It shows that, through flexibility, a co-ordinated approach is possible with the police, social services, medical professionals and other agencies.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister wake up? This is a miserable, vindictive little policy and one that, with the ability of housing associations to sell off homes, ducks the real question, which is that we are not building appropriate housing for the people in this country. This is a diversion; get on with the real job.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is why our £8 billion programme will deliver a further 400,000 affordable housing starts during this Parliament—a stark contrast to the loss of 400,000 homes under the last Labour Government.

[Mrs Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (Con)]

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Nusrat Ghani) that the question of fairness is vital. So many in north Northumberland struggle to find a home. The key question is balance. We have a real issue with smaller communities. If families are to stay within their community, we cannot find a match. Will my hon. Friend the Minister consider ways to help the local authority find new systems for matching families to the right homes?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. That is why it is so important that we are increasing housing starts. Landlords are already changing the way in which they bring new housing stock on, which is welcome news.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Have the Government effectively abandoned the principle of a benefits system that properly assesses people according to their needs and circumstances and pays them a benefit while those circumstances last? The answer to everything seems to be discretionary housing payments. They are discretionary, they are paid on a case-by-case basis, 75% of people paying the bedroom tax do not get them and they are time-limited. Does the Minister recognise the enormous uncertainty that that creates, and the hardship for people in very real housing need?

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[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman. I have a huge amount of respect for his knowledge of local authorities. Like him, I have served on a local authority and I trust their ability to work with other agencies, which I have already mentioned. Hon. Members should remember that this is underwritten by the public sector equality duty, which ensures that all issues are considered.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend set out the exceptions to the spare room subsidy and the help that is available to people?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Well, we have pensioners, those with disabled children who cannot share a room, foster carers, and those serving in the armed forces who are currently on deployment. Discretionary housing payments allow flexibility to take into account individual circumstances and adopt a co-ordinated approach. If we tried to come up with an exhaustive list, there would always be people who fell just below the line, and they would miss out on any support. That is unacceptable.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

Unpaid family carers are not included in the list. From what I have seen, the Rutherfords look like wonderful carers for their grandson. Why should such people live in fear of losing their home—an adapted bungalow in this case? Sixty thousand carers are hit by the bedroom tax. It has always been illogical to hit people who save the state billions. Can the Minister not see that the Secretary of State should abandon this shabby little policy and recognise that carers should not be hit by this unfair charge?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Everyone in the House recognises the valuable role that carers play in society. There is an opportunity to provide discretionary housing payments when that is appropriate, but where was the hon. Lady when such a system was introduced in the private sector? Why did we not hear the argument that there should be exemptions for carers in the private sector? It is one rule then and one rule now.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that a list of strict criteria would undermine the whole point of having discretionary housing payments in the system? Does he also agree that it is interesting to hear the false anger of Labour Members, given that their party introduced this system for tenants on housing benefit in the private sector?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend, who addresses the point that such payments allow for discretion and mean that there can be a multi-agency approach to help individuals according to their needs. People do not neatly fall into a convenient box whereby society provides support. Discretion and flexibility are needed to do the right thing.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

After this embarrassment, and if the next ill-advised legal steps go against the Government, will those affected get an apology for the bedroom tax from the Government Dispatch Box?

[Justin Tomlinson]

We think that this is a good policy that helps the 1.7 million people on the waiting list. It provides for discretion and does not create artificial lines that people can just fall beneath.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

If it were not out of order, would my hon. Friend agree that given that Labour Members introduced this very principle for the private sector, their outrage now is hypocritical?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend. I hope that that is not out of order, because I fully agree.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

But it is out of order.

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

I just want to put a simple question asked by Mr Paul Rutherford himself: why are the Government spending taxpayers’ money on an appeal?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Because we want to ensure that those who are vulnerable get the right support.

[Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Now that my hon. Friend has reminded Labour Members what they did in government, will he also remind them that it is not a tax when people are being treated equally?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for putting that point so eloquently.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Gwynedd Council should be praised for adding extra money over and above the insufficient, arbitrary and tokenistic discretionary housing payments. Will the Government increase discretionary payments until we get the Supreme Court ruling?

[Justin Tomlinson]

We have committed the considerable amount of £870 million over this Parliament. At the halfway point of the year, most local authorities had not spent even 50% of that money. I hope that they will continue to examine ways to support those who are vulnerable, and I give credit to the hon. Lady’s local authority if it is taking extra steps.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

Can the Government do more to encourage and enable councils to give longer discretionary housing awards, so that those claiming them will have more certainty that they can afford their rent?

[Justin Tomlinson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We are looking to encourage that and to allow more common sense to be applied.

[Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Financial Conduct Authority told me this week that 40% of adults in my constituency face severe debt problems, but that is because Wythenshawe and Sale East has more than 3,000 families suffering the bedroom tax, which is the highest rate in the land. Some Nehemiah-esque debt bondage is going on here. Will the Minister visit my constituency to meet people suffering the bedroom tax, and especially women in the safe spot scheme who have suffered domestic violence but are being punished by the Government’s rulings?

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[Justin Tomlinson]

I meet residents all the time because as well as being a Minister I am, like the hon. Gentleman, a constituency MP. We have trebled our funding to support victims of domestic abuse to £40 million a year, and arrears in housing have actually fallen for the past four years.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Given the earlier and contradictory ruling in the case of MA and others v. The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, does my hon. Friend agree that no change should be considered until the Supreme Court has made a final ruling on this matter?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is absolutely the case.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland 66% of Housing Executive tenants and 62% of all working-age housing benefit recipients are under-occupiers. Under the Fresh Start agreement accepted by all parties in Northern Ireland last year, it has been agreed that the moneys to offset the bedroom tax for Northern Ireland will come out of the Northern Ireland block grant. Has the Minister had any discussions with the other devolved Administrations to enable them legally to make similar decisions?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I have not, but that is something I will look at.

[Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)]

As the Minister has said on several occasions, in both recent cases the appellants were in receipt of discretionary payments. Does he therefore agree that this demonstrates that the fund is working and helping those most in need?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is exactly why we are getting the money to the people who need it, and rightly so.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

One of the main drivers of the policy was to force people to find alternative accommodation, but the majority have stayed put despite the many difficulties they face. Does this not show that not only is the policy inhumane, cruel and discriminatory, but it is a failure?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I disagree. In August 2014 16% had registered to look to move. Remember, those 1.7 million people—247,000 families—in overcrowded accommodation need people to move in order to give them the same chance as those people had. It is the right thing to do.

[Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) (Con)]

Some of my most moving meetings with constituents have been with those whose circumstances are unique and who are in great need of help. Does the Minister agree that it is precisely because there is discretion in the system that the Government are able to help those people?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. It is just one example of how we are supporting people. There is a 79% increase in the disability facilities grant next year, taking funding from £220 million to £394 million, which will significantly increase the 40,000 properties per year that we are helping to adapt.

[Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)]

The bedroom tax is the most unpopular tax since another Tory invention, the poll tax. Given the recent judgment, surely this is an opportunity for the Government to review their position. Why will they not take that opportunity and scrap the tax once and for all?

[Justin Tomlinson]

First, I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that this is not a tax. Secondly, if it was so desperately unpopular, why are we in government?

[Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

On fairness, taxpayers will think it is fair that they subsidise social housing rent so that people living in social housing pay about 30% of market rent, in some cases. They do not think it is fair that they subsidise at 30% of market rent people having spare rooms that they do not use or do not need. If, as I suspect, the Minister is unable to give a definitive list of all the cases where people may need a spare room, surely that shows that our discretionary system is the best system and one that we must continue with.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is exactly the point. It seems that the Opposition want to create an artificial bar which will see some people who should be getting support miss out. That is not acceptable.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

It is extraordinarily cynical for the Minister to talk about housing waiting lists when the Government are forcing the sale of council houses to subsidise the sale of housing association homes. How does he explain the fact that only 5% of people who have been affected by the bedroom tax have been able to move, but more than 10 times that number are in rent arrears?

[Justin Tomlinson]

The hon. Gentleman seems to object to allowing people the opportunity to buy their own home. We are not all from gifted backgrounds and people should have an opportunity to do that. That, in turn, will raise the funds to create new housing.

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

The amount we spend on housing benefits rose by 50% in the last years of the Labour Government. We now spend more on housing benefit than we spend on secondary education, and that sum is equivalent to 50% of the Ministry of Defence budget, yet there is a chronic shortage of social housing. Does the Minister agree that no reasonable, competent Government would not be trying to find fair and just solutions to both those problems?

[Justin Tomlinson]

The money spent on housing benefit was £24.4 billion. Without our reforms it would have been £26 billion per year. The Opposition are calling on us to scrap the whole of the spare room subsidy policy. That would be an extra £2.5 billion in their ever-growing black hole.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

Some 71,500 people in Scotland would be affected by the bedroom tax if not for the actions of the SNP Scottish Government in mitigating that. This UK Government’s policy clearly has a devastating and discriminatory impact on some of the most vulnerable people in our society, so in the week when we have seen an astonishing tax deal with Google hailed by the Chancellor, is it not time this Government stopped prioritising sweetheart tax deals and started representing the needs of the ordinary people?

[Justin Tomlinson]

No. I wonder how the Scottish National party would explain to the people on the waiting lists why efforts are not being made to create more appropriate housing.

[Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that before this reform, 820,000 spare rooms were being paid for by the taxpayer, not only wasting taxpayers’ money, but denying so many other people a roof over their head?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Absolutely, and that was of no help at all to the 241,000 families in overcrowded accommodation.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister says that this is complex. Does he not accept that this is about straightforward suffering by people who are already struggling with hardship and have literally nowhere else to go?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Not at all, because these people have been given the money that shows that discretionary housing payment works.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

When the Labour party introduced the spare room subsidy for the private sector, there was no discretionary housing payment to go with it. Have we made an assessment of whether we could extend discretionary housing payment to the spare room subsidy introduced by Labour?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Why was no additional support provided to vulnerable people when Labour introduced it for the private sector? That was not fair.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Will the Minister —[Interruption.] Mr Speaker, I apologise, but I have lost my voice and cannot shout.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. On a point of fact, will the Minister and his officials by the end of today be able to supply me and all other Welsh MPs with a list of how many people who are in households where there are victims of domestic violence or disabled children will be affected if this decision is upheld? On a point of common decency, if he and his Ministers are unable to issue an apology today, if the decision is upheld, will he then apologise?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I am not sure whether we can get all that information by the end of today, but I am happy to see how quickly we can get as much of it as possible to the hon. Gentleman.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Irrespective of the fact that the Minister is ignoring the court ruling, why is the cost of housing benefit expected to go above £25 billion next year?

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[Justin Tomlinson]

We are not ignoring the ruling; we are appealing it. We are doing that because we feel that discretionary housing payment is the correct way to do it. Reforms take time to come in, as I said earlier. Housing benefit cost £24.4 billion this year. Had we not brought in reforms, every single one of which was opposed by the Labour party, it would have cost £26 billion this year.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Given yesterday’s landmark ruling, given the report by the UN’s special rapporteur on housing, which said that the bedroom tax damaged the lives of vulnerable citizens, and given that there is scarce housing to meet those particular needs, will the Minister indicate today, in a compassionate way, that the Government will abandon the bedroom tax?

[Justin Tomlinson]

No.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

When the Government consulted on the bedroom tax in the run-up to the introduction of the Welfare Reform Act 2012, how many disability and carers’ organisations and others warned the Department categorically of the discriminatory nature of the measure, and why was their advice ignored at such substantial cost to the taxpayer?

[Justin Tomlinson]

In the development of this policy there was full and wide consultation.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Let me first say to the Minister that the SNP is building record numbers of council houses in Scotland. In contrast, since the new right to buy was introduced in 2013, there have been 33,000 house sales in England and Wales and fewer than 3,000 new starts, so he cannot dare say that new house building will solve the problem. The High Court ruling stated quite clearly that, because DHP cannot be guaranteed, this policy is discriminatory. While we are against the bedroom tax altogether, is it not time the Government thought again? They cannot hide behind the fact that they cannot give an exhaustive list; they can and must think again.

[Justin Tomlinson]

With all due respect, I have met families who are on those waiting lists and want to see those properties become available.

[Suella Fernandes (Fareham) (Con)]

In Fareham we have over 1,000 people on the housing waiting lists, including young families with children. Will the Minister provide a breakdown per constituency of how many people are on housing waiting lists, so that we can better understand the extent of this problem?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend. I hope she will excuse me if I cannot provide that breakdown instantly for every constituency. We are making efforts, through our combined package of £20 billion-worth of measures, to increase housing supply and help to get those people out of those overcrowded properties and off those waiting lists into appropriate accommodation.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

How much public money has been wasted so far in legal fees on defending this cruel policy?

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[Justin Tomlinson]

It is not cruel to provide support to the most vulnerable in society. It is also sensible, as there would be a £2.5 billion extra cost if Labour were to abandon this policy.

[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that not only is the discretionary housing payment the right way to address this issue, but the fact that so many local authorities are not spending their full allocation is evidence that the Government are fully resourcing this matter?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend. Not only is £870 million proving to be the right amount of money for local authorities, but awareness continues to increase year on year.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

It is simply astonishing that the Government are still not listening and not facing up to the reality of the flaws in this policy, in the same way as they blocked the Affordable Homes Bill, the private Member’s Bill in the name of the former MP for St Ives. Instead of wasting yet more public money on a court case, can they not dust off that Bill and make the changes that clearly need to be made to this policy?

[Justin Tomlinson]

We are determined to protect the most vulnerable in society. As we have shown, these people were getting the funding that they should have got and were entitled to.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

We have now had over half an hour of non-answers from this hapless Minister, when actually we wanted his boss, the Secretary of State, to come to the Dispatch Box to defend this disgusting and pernicious policy. Will he now answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) —how much public money are this Government wasting to defend the indefensible?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That level of anger pretty much matches that of some of the families I met waiting on the waiting list to whom the hon. Gentleman wishes to turn a blind eye.

Disabled People: Support

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) for calling the debate. He is a formidable campaigner with a wealth of experience having been the head of policy at the National Centre for Independent Living, the director of policy at the Disability Alliance and the director of policy and campaigns at Disability Rights UK. His speech demonstrated a genuine and wide-ranging knowledge. I am grateful for the huge range of issues that have been raised. I will do my very best, in a limited time, to cover as many of them as possible and I will keep going until I run out of time. I pay tribute to all the other speakers who contributed to what was mostly a proactive and constructive debate in which genuine concerns were raised and suggestions made about how we can continue to make improvements.

My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) once again demonstrated his huge wealth of experience, setting out practical solutions, particularly regarding apprenticeships. His point was timely as I am due to meet the relevant Minister from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to discuss that issue. I hope that my hon. Friend will be kind enough to join me in that meeting as I would like to push the subject.

The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) asked whether PIP recognises fluctuating health conditions. I feel that it does better than the DLA. The trained assessors are better at picking up on those conditions compared with the former DLA assessment. The main thrust of her speech concentrated on social care and attendance allowance. I understand that as I spent 10 years as an elected borough councillor, but I support the principle of localising the decisions. As a country, we have agreed that we will continue to devolve more responsibilities, particularly to Scotland, but I trust our English authorities to have the same responsibilities and opportunities. We have introduced the better care fund, the social care precept and the Health and Social Care (Safety and Quality) Act 2015.

[Barbara Keeley]

There is a fear about variations and carers losing their eligibility because some councils are so cash-strapped. The difference is very unfair. Even the social care precept will be different, as authorities can raise different amounts. It is an unfair and varied field now.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I understand, and we introduced the Health and Social Care (Safety and Quality) Act to set those standards. To be fair, this issue could be a debate in itself and I am conscious that there were so many other points that I need to come to. I am happy to discuss the matter further.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was right to highlight the fact that more needs to be done. He is a vociferous speaker; I have never taken part in a debate in which he has not contributed. He is right to challenge and is always proactive in making suggestions, particularly regarding learning disabilities. The proportion of people with learning disabilities in paid employment is typically 6% to 8% regardless of whether the economy is on the up or the down. It is the one stubborn area with which Government after Government have struggled and wrestled to try to make genuine progress. I am interested to hear more about the scheme in Northern Ireland that the hon. Gentleman talked about, and I would be keen to meet him to discuss that further.

I have had a good meeting with the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mary Glindon) previously. I would be happy to meet with the group she described to discuss those issues further. We are taking action on the time it takes for appeals to be considered. First, the mandatory reconsideration process comes in before the independent appeal and picks up the majority of those cases in which new information has come forward and a mistake has been made. We continue to work on how we can access better information because, more often than not, decisions are changed when new information comes to light. To get that earlier would be beneficial for all. On the point about accessible housing, the discretionary housing payment funds will be increased over this Parliament by £800 million. I think everyone would welcome that.

To the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), to be fair, external groups, cross-party MPs, Lords, stakeholders and charities do get to influence policies. I spend a lot of my time meeting those groups. Her speech contained a lot of criticism. There are opportunities to make changes. We are reforming ESA through the Work and Health programme and the White Paper. Sometimes, it is good to suggest things that could work, rather than just saying which things are wrong. I reassure her that we do not announce things through Twitter. In the modern world, some people would welcome our doing so, but this week’s announcement about carers and the benefit cap was not made through Twitter. Lord Freud made the announcement in Parliament on Monday during the passage of the Welfare Reform and Work Bill. I hope that provides some reassurance.

I will address as many of the points that have been made as I can. First, on unemployment, we all welcome the Prime Minister’s pledge that we will halve the disability employment gap. Some 339,000 more people with disabilities have been in work over the past two years, which is a good start, but we still have a long way to go. There is a real-terms funding increase in spending to help people with health conditions and disabilities to return to and remain in work. There is support throughout the system, and we are multi-skilling our coaches to ensure that they are all aware how to support people with disabilities. There will be opportunities to make improvements through the White Paper.

The point about smaller, localised, flexible options is important. I get to make many good visits, and I have seen local solutions meeting market needs to create and train the skills where the jobs are. I made an enjoyable visit before Christmas to Foxes Academy, where I was corrected on my inability to cut carrots—it was the hotel featured on Channel 5. Early this week, I visited Ignition, a local brewery that employs people with learning disabilities, where it is socially acceptable to sample the goods at 11 am.

We have introduced the Fit for Work service particularly to focus on helping people remain in work. It is a lot easier to help people remain than to help them back into work. The current figure for Access to Work is 36,760, with four years of growth. It is a demand-led scheme, but a funding increase for an extra 25,000 places has been confirmed, which is significant. We are actively considering the best ways to do that. We have an open mind, and I welcome any suggestions, but obviously greater promotion is key, particularly to smaller businesses where the scheme would be particularly helpful in removing barriers. Specialist employment support has doubled the job outcomes of residential training colleges, which is good progress.

We constantly evaluate PIP, and we work with external stakeholders, charities and users to look at ways we can continue to improve PIP. The waiting time for assessments has reduced by more than three quarters since June 2014. We are now at five weeks for an assessment, and 11 weeks median end-to-end for the process. It is fair to say that the launch of PIP was not good. The reviews highlighted that, and my predecessors will have spent a lot of time in Westminster Hall and in the other Chamber discussing it, but PIP has been in a settled state for quite some time.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Will the Minister confirm whether that will mean a cut to PIP for people?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Will the hon. Lady repeat that last bit?

[Debbie Abrahams]

After the consultation, will PIP be protected, or will people see a loss in their PIP allowance?

[Justin Tomlinson]

The consultation is just completing, and we will analyse what people have had to say. We were right to do that following the Paul Gray review. He highlighted the issue following court judgments. On an earlier point, rather than waiting for the courts to continue to drag it through, it is right and proper that we have a thorough look at it, but I do not want to pre-empt any consultation. We are continuing to look to improve the PIP process, and I look forward to reading the hon. Lady’s comments, assuming that she has fed into that consultation.

Only 16% of DLA claimants secured the highest rate, and the figure is now 22.5% under PIP. As a specific example of an area of disability where people have benefited from the changes, 22% of those with a mental health condition would get the highest rate of DLA, but now 68% of mental health claimants are on enhanced PIP.

[Neil Coyle]

But that is not someone getting more support but someone qualifying for exactly the same support that existed previously under DLA, a system that actually cost less to run.

[Justin Tomlinson]

My point is that only 22% of those with mental health conditions would have qualified, and now the figure is at 68%, so more people with a mental health condition are qualifying for the enhanced rate. That is one example, and there are others.

We are in the process of the full roll-out, taking the 1.7 million DLA claimants over to PIP, but please be assured that that is being done in a controlled, measured and timely manner that learns the lessons of the reviews. We are doing the roll-out in a manner that meets the available capacity so as not to repeat the mistakes of when PIP was first launched. The disabled facilities grant currently funds about 40,000 house adaptations a year, and I am delighted that funding is due to increase by 79% next year from £220 million to £394 million.

A number of Members talked about working across the Government, which is a big part of my role. I meet not only Ministers but Opposition Members and Lords stakeholders. I make lots of visits, which is a part of my role that I very much enjoy. My door is always open, and I have met a number of speakers here today.

Some 16,900 have transferred from the independent living fund, of whom 91% already had some form of their care provided by the local authority. The funding was transferred in full. The protection was underwritten by the Care Act 2014. The Department for Work and Pensions, the Department of Health, the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Treasury are keeping a close eye on that as it progresses. I understand the importance of the issue, on which we have had many debates.

We must not forget that ESA WRAG was not a golden solution; it had been criticised by all parties for a long time. Only 1% of claimants a month were coming off that benefit into work. No Government ever invented could have spun that as anything other than failing the people it was meant to serve. Those already receiving ESA will see no cash loss. Anyone whose capacity to work is limited by severe work-limiting health conditions and disabilities will continue to remain in that support group. Existing claimants who undergo a work capability reassessment after April 2017 and are placed in, or remain in, the WRAG will continue to receive that additional rate.

The Government have invested an extra £1.25 billion in mental health support, and in our area we are doing a series of pilots on group work, telephone support, face to face, online and inside jobcentres to look seriously at how we can do that and scale it across the country to help people as quickly as possible, which is clearly the key. On the disabled students allowance, we recognise that progress has been made since the Equality Acts. Universities, like all public sector bodies, have a duty to comply with the law. We should not be paying for things that they should be doing and are underwritten by law. I have had a number of meetings on that, and I will continue to keep a close eye on it.

Finally, on accessible information, the Royal National Institute of Blind People rightly challenged me because it felt that the Government were inconsistent in how they presented information. It is important that my Department leads on that, as well as pushing the rest of the Government, so I set up a taskforce that includes the RNIB and a number of organisations and people with a wealth of experience who will work through how we communicate our information. I understand that, when people are looking to use services and claim benefits, we need to make their journey as easy and as helpful as possible, and I am delighted that so many organisations are supporting that valuable work.

It is a pleasure to have responded to this helpful debate, which is a credit to the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark.

Housing Benefit and Supported Housing

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

This has been a powerful and important debate, and we have listened to the arguments from both sides of the Chamber. A number of important points were raised and questions asked, and I will do my best to cover as many of them as I can.

Our welfare reform is about bringing wide-ranging reforms to the welfare system and bringing the budget back under control after years of overspending by Labour. My hon. Friends the Members for Peterborough (Mr Jackson), for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) and for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) set out eloquently how important that is. Our reforms are bringing fairness for hard-working taxpayers, making work pay and making welfare sustainable for the future.

Protecting the most vulnerable is the key part of today’s debate. As we have progressed with these important and necessary reforms, we have stuck to our principle of protecting the most vulnerable. As the Minister for Disabled People, I hold that principle to be particularly important. I know how important the right housing is for an individual’s needs. I am proud of our record on helping those who need the most support.

I want to remind the House that we have spent around £50 billion every year on benefits to support people with disabilities or health conditions, and that spending will be higher in every year until 2020 than it was in 2010. We are spending £400 million to deliver 8,000 specialist homes for the vulnerable, elderly or those with disabilities, and funding for the disabled facilities grant, which funds around 40,000 adaptations a year, is due to increase by nearly 80% next year. We are providing £870 million of support through discretionary housing payment over the next five years to help those who need support, and the Department of Health has committed to funding up to 7,500 further specialist homes for disabled and older people.

We are also providing support to other vulnerable groups. For example, we are providing £40 million for victims of domestic abuse, which is a tripling of the support, ensuring that no one is turned away from the support they need. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) for focusing the House on the absolute importance of the services that refuges provide, bringing real dynamism and realism to the debate. I understand that, because I have done a lot of work with Women’s Aid, particularly in the last Parliament, and I pay tribute to the women’s refuge in Swindon. It cannot boast about what it does, because it has to be behind closed doors. The hon. Lady has really focused minds, which is an important thing to do. More than £500 million has been spent since 2010 on tackling homelessness, preventing almost 1 million households from becoming homeless.

Let me turn to supported housing. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) and the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue), who drew upon their real-life experience and set out some of the challenges and opportunities faced in this area. We recognise the value of the supported housing sector and want to ensure that the essential services it delivers continue to be provided, within the context of driving appropriate value for money. Many Members have put that on the record today and spoken about that support, which is very important. We want to ensure that the sector can continue to deliver the important services it provides, which is why we will be putting in place a one-year exemption from the 1% rent reduction for all supported accommodation. That will give us time to study the evidence from the supported housing review, which is due to report in the spring, and consider a longer-term solution for the sector.

The hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) asked a number of questions, including about what happens to rents for supported housing next year during the one-year delay. They will be uprated by CPI plus 1% up until April 2017, then reviewed after that.

The review will tell us the size, scale and scope of supported housing funded through housing benefits. The policy options will be considered after the report is published, in consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, and conclusions will be reached in due course as that is brought together.

[Mr Jackson]

I am reassured by the Minister’s comments. Will he ensure that the Treasury and NHS England are involved in this issue, because it is important that there is proper co-ordination between acute hospital care and social care as we face demographic issues in the future?

[Justin Tomlinson]

We all accept that this issue goes far wider, and we must look at all that in the consultation.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) asked me to take on board the comments from Progress Housing, and I will happily do so. The hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) talked about the YMCA, which is an important organisation. I am pleased that Denise Hatton, YMCA England’s chief executive, has already tweeted:

“It is positive that the Government has listened to the concerns of the sector and we welcome the fact it has taken appropriate action to protect supported housing.”

[John Healey]

If the House is to take the Minister at his word that he wants to have the evidence from the review, then a consultation, in order to make these policy decisions, will he place a moratorium on the application of the LHA benefit cut, as he proposes with the rent cut, so that new tenancies from April this year will not be affected in the way that the Chancellor announced?

[Justin Tomlinson]

For new tenants, the change comes into effect in 2016; for existing ones, it will come into effect in 2018. The delay on the 1% is just for supported housing, so I am afraid that I cannot give that commitment.

[Mr Betts]

The question is this: will the Minister defer the change in housing benefit related to LHA for supported housing from April this year so that it does not apply to new tenancies until the review has been completed?

[Justin Tomlinson]

The changes do not come into effect at that point. That is why we said that we will urgently take forward the review based on the points that have been raised.

I can assure Members that DWP and DCLG will work closely together to ensure that the appropriate protections are in place for those in supported housing.

[Mr Betts]

I am sorry, but the changes do come into effect for new tenancies in supported housing from April this year, so will the Minister please defer them?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I have made it clear that, for those in supported housing, the change will be delayed for a year as we conduct the urgent review.

On the rationale for changes in the social rented sector, we will stick to our principles of protecting the most vulnerable. However, these are important reforms. We inherited a burgeoning housing benefits bill that we had to get control of. We have started to do that, but we need to go further. The housing benefit bill for England has risen by over 20% during the past 10 years, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) said. Part of the reason is that the rises in social rents have outstripped those in the private sector, as highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake). Social rents are up by 60% compared with 23% in the private sector. In the private sector, the local housing allowance curbs the spiralling housing benefit bill, but there is no similar restraint in the social sector. That is why we are going to cap social sector rents in the same way as in the private sector, thereby reducing rents in the social sector. We should remember that this will help the one third of people in this sector who do not claim any housing benefit and whose rents will come down. However, we will continue to protect the most vulnerable.

This is just part of our wider housing reforms. We are improving access, creating more choice and building more affordable homes. We are doubling the housing budget to more than £20 billion over the next five years to help to ensure that housing is prioritised for those who need it most.

[Neil Coyle]

Will the Minister give way?

[Justin Tomlinson]

No. I am short of time.

Under Labour, the number of social and affordable rented homes fell by 400,000, but under the Conservative Government, 700,000 new homes have been built in the past five years, of which 270,000 are affordable homes. We are broadening opportunities for people to access housing through Help to Buy, right to buy and the £8 billion commitment to deliver 400,000 more affordable home starts. This Government are tackling the chronic problems of under-supply and access to housing, which the Labour party failed to do.

In conclusion, we will not fall into the trap of Labour’s blank-cheque approach by paying away problems without making any real or meaningful reforms to welfare. Our reforms bring fairness for hard-working taxpayers and make the welfare budget more sustainable for the future, and we are doing that while providing the right protection for the most vulnerable in society.

Question put.

Diffuse Mesothelioma Payment Scheme

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

The Diffuse Mesothelioma Payment Scheme (Levy) Regulations 2014 require active insurers to pay an annual levy based on their relative market share for the purpose of meeting the costs of the diffuse mesothelioma payment scheme (DMPS). This is in line with the commitment by the insurance industry to fund a scheme of last resort for sufferers of diffuse mesothelioma who have been unable to trace their employer or their employer’s insurer.

I can announce today that the total amount of the levy to be charged for 2015-16, the second year of the DMPS, is £23.2 million. It is estimated that the full cost of the scheme in 2015-16 will be £31 million, but, as the amount levied in 2014-15 was greater than the final cost of the scheme for that year, £7.8 million has been carried forward into 2015-16. The £23.2 million will be payable by active insurers by the end of March 2016.

Individual active insurers will be notified in writing of their payment amount—i.e. their share of the levy—together with how the amount was calculated and payment arrangements. Insurers should be aware that it is a legal requirement to pay the levy within the set timescales.

I am pleased that the DMPS has seen a successful first year of operation. The first annual report for the scheme was published in November 2015 and is available on the gov.uk website. I hope that Members of both Houses will welcome this announcement and give the DMPS their continued support.

[HCWS460]

Access to Jobs: Disabled People

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

As your parliamentary neighbour, Mr Chope, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas), who made a passionate speech on this incredibly important subject. I have already have some dealings with the hon. Gentleman in the course of his work on the all-party group on spinal cord injury. It was a real credit to him that he took time out of his busy schedule to come and engage on that.

I will cover the Remploy issue, and I would be happy to meet to discuss what more can be done in the specific case of Margaret and on the broader subject of disability employment. First, I want to answer some of the questions asked by various Members in what I thought was a constructive debate. As a Government, we are very much in listening mode. We are looking at ways in which we can make changes to improve the situation, and there are many ideas that we will look to take from today’s debate.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) for his kind words, and I would be happy to continue in this role. He demonstrated a huge knowledge of the proactive work that needs to be done. It has been a real pleasure to work with him on a number of different areas of my role, and he is a real credit to his constituency.

It was a pleasure to attend the all-party group on disability, which the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) chairs so ably. We crossed paths on several occasions that day, when we went to a number of different meetings. She mentioned the work of Changing Faces. I met that organisation, which is doing a huge amount in a very important area. I am a big supporter of its “What Success Looks Like” campaign, which is an important part of the wider work that we need to do.

I echo the comments on self-employment. I had my own business for 10 years, and the careers advice that I always give to sixth-formers was, “If you are good at what you do, do it yourself. If you are not very good at what you do, be paid to be not very good.”

My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Mrs Drummond) is doing a tremendous amount of work in her constituency. I was excited to hear about the work of the Beneficial Foundation, and I would be interested to visit and see that at first hand. I think that there are some lessons that we can learn.

It is always a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), who is easily one of the best speakers in Parliament. His suggestions about Jobcentre Plus were constructive. We are bringing forward a White Paper, which gives us an opportunity to look at how we can improve the situation. What he said about thinking outside the box was crucial. Some brilliant ideas have been put forward, and I encourage him to be very proactive, because there are some lessons that we need to learn.

It is also always a pleasure to hear from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I do not think that I have responded to a single debate to which he has not contributed, and I am glad that he has not had another meeting that has clashed. It is good to exchange ideas, because if there are areas of best practice anywhere, we need to look at them. As I have said, the White Paper gives us a huge opportunity to change the support we offer, and I will discuss that further.

The personal passion of the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane) shone through. I am grateful for the huge amount of work that was done in the Disability Confident event. I was disappointed to hear some of the negatives but it is important to raise them. We have addressed some of them and I will talk about that a bit more later. I would appreciate an opportunity to discuss them further because it is an important part of the work we are doing.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

I apologise for missing some parts of the debate but I was listening closely to the feedback of the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane) on his Disability Confident event as I want to ensure that we have a Disability Confident event in Worcester. I ask the Minister to engage with the issue of the follow-up to the events to ensure that we make the most of the opportunity they represent.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is perfect timing because later in my speech I will highlight our drop-in event for parliamentarians. We are also producing a pack, which I will discuss later, and I would be delighted if my hon. Friend engaged with this because I know that he has done a huge amount of work engaging with employers, particularly with apprentices and at jobs fairs. We definitely need to recruit him to the campaign.

A comment was made about the role of the media and role models. I am doing a huge amount of work on that because it makes a big difference. The hon. Members for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) and for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) covered relatively similar points regarding the ESA work-related activity group. Let us not forget that only 1% of people in the ESA work-related activity group were coming off that benefit each month. Rightly, it was highlighted that people want to get into work. Clearly that system was not doing that right. We can discuss in another debate how it will be done.

We will be spending an extra £60 million providing support this year, rising to £100 million by 2020. We should remember that no existing claimants will lose out on the cash. The proportion of people in relative poverty who live in a family in which someone is disabled has fallen since 2010. Without opening up a debate on disability living allowance and the personal independence payment, let us not forget that under DLA, 16% of claimants were on the highest level of benefit whereas, under PIP, the figure is 22.5%.

I turn to the issue of Remploy before moving to the broader issues. In March 2012, the Government confirmed that it accepted the Sayce review’s recommendations to focus support on individuals through services such as Access to Work, and away from specific workplaces or facilities such as Remploy in order to significantly increase the number of people who could be supported to access the labour market—it is that point about being in the mainstream. I understand that that is not what Margaret wishes to hear but I will come to more specific points.

The background to the case is that the 54 Remploy factories operated at a loss of £49.5 million, amounting to about £22,500 a year to support each disabled person working in a Remploy factory. That is in contrast to the average Access to Work award to support a disabled person in mainstream employment at £3,100. I understand that it is a lot more complicated than that. That debate took place in 2011 and 2012, and there was clearly a disagreement on what should happen. Following that, all disabled Remploy staff affected by the exit of Remploy factories had access to tailored support from an £8 million people help and support package for up to 18 months to help with the transition.

The final statistics of 21 August 2015 confirmed that just over 1,500 former disabled employees had received support through personal caseworkers, 867 were in work and a total of 1,182 jobs had been found. I accept that the point is what has happened since then. I do not know whether I can find that information but I will look into it.

In broader terms, ultimately we want as many people as possible to have the opportunity go into work. The Prime Minister personally committed the Government to halving the disability employment gap, and that was widely welcomed by all. In the past two years, there has been significant progress with 339,000 more people with disabilities going into work. A number of strands will help to make the aim a reality.

First, many Members have mentioned Access to Work. There is roughly a £100 million budget at the moment helping a near record 37,000 people. We have had four years of growth. Following the spending review, by the end of this Parliament we are looking to spend about £123 million and we would expect a further 25,000 people to be supported through that. We now have record numbers of people with learning disabilities, people with a mental health condition, and young people.

We have more specialist teams providing specific advice, including the visual impairments team, and other teams for hearing impairments, self-employment, large employers, and the hidden impairments specialists. Broader unique opportunities are also presented. We are looking at further ways to improve Access to Work, particularly raising awareness among small and medium-sized businesses, which would most benefit and could remove the most barriers. We are also looking into how we can simply provide more advice through that service. A number of speakers said that employers would be worried about whether they had the skillset to support somebody with a disability. Access to Work could be an opportunity to provide that.

Today we had our first Disability Confident taskforce. The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) has rightly asked what more we can do to push that. We had a number of the great and the good from a huge wealth of backgrounds including recruitment agencies and groups that support people with disabilities to get into work, including the Federation of Small Businesses, Clear Company, the Business Disability Forum, the Shaw Trust and a number of others. There was a collective brilliance around that table. I told them that I am very much in listening mode and I want them to challenge us and to identify ways in which we can take advantage of the Chancellor increasing the funding.

The whole point is to make more businesses aware of the huge wealth of talent out there. That is being underpinned through our Disability Confident campaign, which is there to share best practice, bust myths and signpost businesses and potential employees to the help and support that exists. Underlying all this is ensuring that people understand that it is a positive benefit. We are not asking businesses to do something that is not right, but to take advantage, often through making small changes, having greater recognition or understanding that a huge network of support is available. We will push that, with a real emphasis on small and medium-sized businesses.

[Mike Kane]

The Minister is making a good case for Disability Confident. Does he agree that we need measurable outcomes for those events?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Absolutely. I am coming to that, and we will be having that further meeting.

More than 300 organisations are signed up but that is not enough, which is why we will be doing a lot more promotion this year. The digital sign is now up and we are keeping more records of that. We will go back and challenge, particularly those larger businesses, to find out what more they can do with their supply chains and what further questions can be asked. That point was raised as well.

Universal Credit Work Allowance

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Wednesday 6th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

I found it interesting to learn, as part of the massive data dump before Christmas, that some of our largest banks such as J. P. Morgan and Merrill Lynch paid absolutely no corporation tax in the UK last year, in the same week when we learned that there would not be an investigation of the practices of our banks. Others can draw conclusions from that; I will stick to the subject at hand, which is universal credit.

I turn to transitional protection for those affected. As my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) said, the Government keep telling us that there will be transitional protection, and I will go so far as to concede that that is true—sort of—for some of the 350,000 people who will be on universal credit by April.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

Two hundred and fifty thousand.

[Owen Smith]

The Minister says it is 250,000, but 350,000 is the latest estimate that I have seen from the Office for Budget Responsibility. Perhaps it is wrong—it could be wrong about other things in future, as well. However, there will not be transitional protection for the 5.8 million people who will eventually be on universal credit. Even for the 350,000 who are currently on it or will be on it by March, there will not really be transitional protection if they undergo anything that constitutes what the Government call a “serious change of circumstances”. In that case, the maintenance of their in-work support at tax credit levels will stop. It will interest the House, especially given the Secretary of State’s interest in marriage as an institution, that getting married will constitute a serious change of circumstances. If someone who is on tax credits and enjoying transitional protection gets married, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions will take that money away from them.

There will be no protection whatever for any of the millions of new claimants by 2020. The Secretary of State has implied on several occasions that there will be transitional protections. Indeed, when he intervened on me in the debate before Christmas—he was not leading for the Government in that debate—he said explicitly:

“We are transitionally protecting those who are moving on to universal credit.”—[Official Report, 7 December 2015; Vol. 603, c. 696.]

Unfortunately, the Minister for Welfare Reform, Lord Freud, had to correct him in the House of Lords, saying:

“It is not the same as transitional protection…it might be some more work or it might be upskilling”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 14 December 2015; Vol. 767, c. 1910.]

In truth, the £69 million fund that the Secretary of State has prayed in aid as transitional funding will in no way make up for the £3.2 billion loss over this Parliament.

The truth came out in the infamous data dump of documents snuck out in Christmas week. Responding to criticism by the Government’s own Social Security Advisory Committee, Ministers had to admit that the only way to recoup the losses would be to work an additional three to four hours a week. That is right—the House heard me correctly. The Government are now saying to a single mother who is working full time on the national minimum wage and looking after her children in the evening and who will lose £3,000 that she has to get another job working an extra three or four hours a week—approximately 200 hours a year—to make sure that she is no worse off. Tell me, Mr Speaker—I cannot see it—how that single mother who has a child at home and who is working full time will, even on the new national minimum wage, be able to work an extra three to four hours a week or 200 hours a year. Is she meant to get a job after work in a bar, in a garage or serving coffee? Is she meant to get a job in addition to the full-time job she is doing during the day and in addition to looking after her children—for example, cleaning in the mornings—to earn an extra few quid?

What on earth is the incentive for that mother to undertake that extra work? I ask that because the other massively damaging effect of the cuts is that they fundamentally undermine and destroy the very premise of universal credit—to make work pay.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his equally deft selectivity. Dare I say that my point is that universal credit might have done all those things? If we had, as was originally envisaged, a 55% taper rate, or even if we had the current 65% taper rate, and if we had work allowances that were double what are now proposed, as was originally intended, universal credit would have made work pay and it would have been an incentive for people to work those extra hours. I have made that plain in my speech. However, with the cuts—the seven successive cuts that have been made since 2012—it will not deliver what was promised. The hon. Gentleman and the country are being sold a pup by the Secretary of State. It was not what was written on the tin when he first brandished it. Conservative Members need to understand that, because thousands of families in their respective constituencies will be affected by those cuts. Many of them will lose as much or more than they would have lost under the tax credit cuts. I say to all Tory Members: join us or tell me how these cuts are different from those they stood against last time around, other than that Tory Members might not quite have the time to realise that these cuts are being made before they next stand in an election. So far as I can see, that is the only plausible reason for their failure to follow their consciences this time and rail against the cuts.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I want to be clear on one point. The taper at the conception of the policy was 65%. There has been no cut and no change to that. It is important that the shadow Secretary of State does not make a mistake on that.

[Owen Smith]

I did not make a mistake in any way, shape or form.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

I join the shadow Secretary of State in wishing everybody a happy new year. I am sorry that I am not the person with whom he wished to have this exchange, but this is a real area of passion for me. My background, my school, my work and starting my own business mean that I understand opportunity, which all too often is not a given in society. The changes that have helped shape my journey into politics are integral to why we need to reform the welfare state. That is absolutely key.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Given the background that the Minister has set out, he will well understand why it would have been a mistake to go ahead with the tax credit cuts that were U-turned before Christmas. Why then are the Government going ahead with precisely those cuts for people whose only mistake is to have the misfortune of receiving universal credit instead of tax credits?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That was a very early intervention and, to be fair, I need a little time to expand my argument, which will address those points. An element of patience is needed; I know that we all needed it last night with the late sitting and the reshuffle news. A key point about tax credits was that people argued that all the changes needed to be phased in, and I will set that out.

The welfare system we inherited was simply not working. It was not supporting people to get into work, to stay in work and to progress in work. People were left with unfulfilled potential, languishing on benefits, with little or no incentive to work or to progress in work, and opportunity was stifled. Opportunity should be a given; it should not be stifled.

The truth is that our welfare system had become distorted and complex, as we all know from our casework with residents. Too often, residents were missing out on the benefits they were entitled to because they could not navigate something so complex. All too often, the system firmly shut the door on opportunity, because it paid more to be on benefits than to be in work. We all know that, and the electorate—hard-working families—were quick to remind us of it.

Let me be clear that I say that with no disapproval for those who claim benefits. The system itself was to blame, which is why we undertook to reform it. Our aim was and continues to be to create a system that extends opportunity and ensures that work always pays, moving Britain from a low wage, high welfare, high tax society to a higher wage, lower welfare, lower tax society. It is a common-sense approach, creating a system that is fairer to the taxpayers who face an ever-increasing bill and delivering a welfare system that is sustainable for our country but that, crucially, protects the most vulnerable.

Let me remind the House that welfare spending on people in work rose from £6 billion in 1998 to almost £28 billion in 2010.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It might help the debate if the Minister and his colleagues on the Front Bench had an accurate definition of transitional protection. My hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) made an excellent speech from the Front Bench outlining Labour’s calls for transitional protection, but it seems that that is something that Conservative Members just do not understand. We are having a similar debate tomorrow concerning the state pension equalisation for women. People should not lose out in achieving the principles the Minister is outlining. Why should certain families on universal credit lose out compared with families on tax credit and why will the Government not protect those people so that they do not lose out?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That will be set out in my speech and I will cover the transitional arrangements. I gently ask the hon. Lady where the transitional arrangements were when the 10p income tax rate was changed. We will be mindful of the advice that we take.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

Does the Minister have access to any figures that point to successes since 2010 in the number of people in employment and the number of people receiving benefits?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend, who I know has worked incredibly hard in his constituency to help more people get into work. Across the country, more than 2 million more people are in work—record numbers—with record low numbers of people out of work.

Welfare spending overall went up by almost 60% in real terms, costing every household an extra £3,000 a year in 2010. What was the result of all that spending? The number of working people in poverty actually went up by around 20% and nearly one in five households had no one working. That was too often the norm.

[Owen Smith]

Will the Minister confirm that under his Government welfare spending has gone up more than it has under any Government, breaching £1 trillion under the previous Government, and £130 billion more than under the previous Labour Government?

[Justin Tomlinson]

In percentage terms, it is now back to 2008-09 levels. These reforms are key to that. Having an open blank chequebook is simply not an approach that we or hard-working taxpayers would take.

[Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Everybody understands the rationale for having a welfare system that incentivises people to work, but I would like the Minister to explain how these proposals, which mean that people have to work longer hours for the same money, will achieve that purpose.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will now try to make some progress so that I can set that out.

The old approach of taking money from people’s wages and recycling it back to them in handouts was not transforming lives, it was trapping them. Why? It did not provide the right incentives or support for people to get on and realise their ambitions. Our central approach is therefore about ensuring people are better off in work and better off working more.

[Simon Hoare]

The Minister is being a little too charitable to the Opposition. I might be being a bit cynical, but did not their policy seek to create a hinterland constituency of people wedded to welfare and therefore reliant on the Labour party? The voters saw through that in May and they are not going back to that again.

[Justin Tomlinson]

There is no need for my hon. Friend to feel that he is being cynical, as the statistics make that very clear.

Through universal credit people can support their families and have the dignity and independence that comes with having a job. We have already made huge progress through our reforms. Employment is at a record high, up by more than 2 million since 2010. Unemployment is down by more than 750,000 since 2010. The claimant count rate is at its lowest level since 1975. The number of people claiming the main out-of-work benefits has fallen by 1 million since 2010. Wages are rising—for 13 months consecutively—higher than inflation. I know that the shadow Secretary of State started talking about the 1920s—an easy mistake to make, perhaps, forgetting about inflation. That is why living standards are up. Business confidence is underpinning all this progress, which the Opposition are—

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will take some more interventions, but let me make a little more progress because they might be on subjects that are coming up.

Against that backdrop, universal credit is removing the barriers to work that existed in the old system. The major reforms that are needed to our welfare system after 13 years of Labour’s culture of dependency are not without difficult choices, but universal credit is designed to provide certainty for claimants and provide the right incentives and support to find work and, crucially, progress in work. That has always been at the heart of universal credit, and it continues to be so. Universal credit policy remains unchanged since the summer Budget, despite attempts by the Opposition to suggest the contrary. The improved public finances allow us to reach the same goal of achieving a surplus while cutting less in the earlier years. We are smoothing the path to the same destination. That is a welcome move and the point I made in response to an earlier intervention.

I want to remind the House of the incentives that universal credit creates and the support it provides.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Will the Minister give way?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Shortly, shortly.

A single taper of 65% means that financial support is withdrawn at a consistent and predictable rate, helping claimants clearly to understand the advantages of work. Universal credit also extends financial incentives to people working fewer than 16 hours per week and removes the limit to the number of hours someone can work each week. Nobody can understand why we had a welfare system that created those artificial barriers.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Although we all understand how universal credit is intended to work, does he not understand that there is an inbuilt disadvantage for those areas that were universal credit pilots, such as the Tameside part of my constituency? As universal credit is phased in across the country, these cuts will hit the areas that were the early entrants to the programme much harder than other parts of the country.

[Justin Tomlinson]

We are seeing that people on universal credit are more likely to progress into work and to secure more hours, and I will come on to that in more detail later.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will take one last intervention for now.

[Stephen Timms]

The Minister said in response to my earlier intervention that there were to be transitional arrangements, but the trouble is that people receiving universal credit will get the full cut in April this year. They are going to be clobbered.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I gently remind the right hon. Gentleman that I shall be going into those details later, so he needs to have just a little more patience.

Crucially and uniquely, universal credit stays with claimants when they enter work until their earnings reach a certain level or until they can support themselves. That gives them the confidence to start a job without having to go through the bureaucracy of changing their benefit claim. Universal credit is not just about IT or streamlining bureaucracy, as it is often portrayed. It is about people having a single point of contact with a work coach who provides personalised support, advice and guidance. This is where universal credit comes into its own, and this is the bit that I am really passionate about.

In life, we are all confident individuals and when we are faced with challenges it is a given that we can normally take them on, but that is not the case for everybody. We are now giving people a named personal contact to help them to deal with their individual case when they are navigating complicated benefit systems. That work coach will be by their side helping them to develop their role when they first get their foot in the door. They will not simply say, “We wish you all the best now you’ve got a job”. They will help them to make progress and develop their role. They will help them to seek and secure more hours, and to develop the skills and confidence to progress through the grades. In other words, universal credit will not only support people to move into a job; it will also help them to build a career. It will break the cycle of dependency and create opportunities.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

Does the Minister not accept that we are really talking about people who are doing the hours but whose rate of pay is very low? Is not this really about productivity? The fact is that the Government are not creating higher level jobs. We are far too dependent on the service sector, which essentially involves low-paid jobs rather than jobs that offer a higher rate of pay for the hours worked.

[Justin Tomlinson]

Three quarters of new jobs being created are at managerial level, and the majority are full-time jobs. I shall go into more detail about what we are doing in terms of money.

[Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

My hon. Friend has been talking about the benefits of universal credit. I have spoken to two jobcentres that serve my constituents and that are piloting universal credit, and I have heard very good feedback, both from the job coaches and from the jobseekers themselves, who say that it is giving them more flexibility to work. Please will my hon. Friend confirm that the roll-out will continue, because those jobcentres want to be able to give more jobseekers the opportunity to be on universal credit?

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Tomlinson]

My hon. Friend highlights the importance of that personalised support, which people find absolutely vital. We have seen this in our casework, in our experience of life and through friends who have navigated through the system. My hon. Friend has taken the time to visit her jobcentres, and I would gently encourage the shadow Secretary of State to go and visit one of the universal credit sites and to see it at first hand.

[Owen Smith]

I spoke to one of the people piloting universal credit just two weeks ago. Is the Minister seriously telling the single mother I mentioned earlier, who is working full time on the new national minimum wage, that she should not worry about the £3,000 drop in her income that will result from these cuts? Is he saying that she should not worry because she will have a personal work coach who will encourage her and give her greater confidence to get another job, maybe in management? Is he seriously saying that to the country?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will extend my invitation further: I will join the hon. Gentleman if he wishes to come and see this work in action. If he is worried about going on his own, I will in effect be his work coach. We have talked about examples. Let us talk about a working lone parent with two children who is doing 35 hours on the national living wage. They will be £330 better off. We could continue to trade examples, but that would be to assume that this is a static analysis. I will address that point later.

The evidence is clear: universal credit is working. Independently reviewed statistics published at the end of last year show that under universal credit people spend 50% more time looking for work, are 8 percentage points more likely to have been in work, and when in work, they earn more and seek more hours. So, universal credit is supporting people whether they move into or out of work, and focusing on getting people not just into work but into sustainable employment where earnings increase and the number of hours they work rises.

[Chris Stephens]

The Public and Commercial Services Union has real concerns about the cuts to the work allowance, which will affect the Government’s own staff. What assessment has been made of the effect of those cuts on the employees in the Department for Work and Pensions?

[Justin Tomlinson]

As I shall explain, this is not a static analysis.

I want to focus on how we are going to support people. People will benefit from the improved support. For those directly affected by the changes to work allowances, we have been careful to put further measures in place. The affected claimants will benefit not only from additional work coach support but from access to funding through the flexible support fund. This will help people to retain work and to increase their earnings through training, travel and care, and we will support people to access those things. In the longer term, we are ensuring protection for claimants who are moved from legacy benefits to universal credit. We have always been clear that there will be no cash losers as a result of the managed migration of claimants from one system to another, as long as their circumstances remain the same.

[Owen Smith]

This will be the last time I intervene on the Minister, I promise. Is he seriously telling the House that the £69 million flexible support fund that he has just prayed in aid once again will in any way make up for the £3.2 billion loss to working families?

[Justin Tomlinson]

The shadow Secretary of State is mis-matching the two parts. The people who are going across will continue to have their cash protected. The £69 million fund will provide ongoing support to help people to navigate through the process.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

I want to return to the Minister’s point about work coaches. The mapping exercise that was undertaken in my constituency and across the borough of North East Lincolnshire was out by 150%, and the local authorities there cannot meet the needs of the work coaches who are needed to support people on universal credit. That task has now been passed on to the citizens advice bureau, which also cannot manage the load because the figures that it was initially given were incorrect.

[Justin Tomlinson]

This is actually delivered through the jobcentres and the universal service, so I think we will have to discuss that a bit further.

Figures have been bandied about, and I want to make it clear that they were wildly inaccurate. They were based on a fundamental misunderstanding of universal credit, which is why I am so keen to arrange a visit for the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith). The vast majority of those on the universal credit caseload will not lose out as a result of the changes. That is because the measure affects only those people who are in work, most of whom would have received nothing under tax credits. I have not seen the Opposition campaigning on this issue before. Unlike tax credits, universal credit is a dynamic benefit.

[Owen Smith]

rose—

[Stephen Timms]

rose—

[Justin Tomlinson]

The hon. Member for Pontypridd has had his turn. I give way to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Stephen Timms]

I think we have now got to the appropriate point in the Minister’s speech. Does he acknowledge that the 50,000-plus working people who are today receiving universal credit will see their benefits sharply cut in April?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will come on to those specific people—[Interruption.] In the overall numbers, it is the vast majority—[Interruption.] I am going to make some progress.

We have to see the bigger picture. A lot of the analysis that has gone on is static. Even the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which I know a lot of hon. Members will refer to, acknowledges that it is a static analysis. Universal credit is not a stand-alone measure. It is part of our wider, dynamic package of reforms to support families in work and to make sure work pays. We are raising the personal allowance to £11,000 for the next tax year, saving the typical taxpayer over £900 a year, and we have pledged to raise it to £12,500 by the end of this Parliament. The national living wage will come into effect from April. That will directly benefit 2.75 million people and it is forecast to reach over £9 an hour by 2020. That might upset Opposition Members who campaigned for £8 an hour, but we felt that that did not go far enough.

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

The House of Commons Library has given me some figures; I wonder whether the Minister will say that they are wrong. They show that a single parent working full time on the minimum wage will be nearly £3,000 a year worse off than they would have been on tax credits. I would appreciate some clarification on this from the Minister.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I worked closely with her on our commitment to halving the disability employment gap, and I have a lot of respect for the work she does. In this case, the person—again, presuming it is a static analysis and that they are already in—will be cash protected as they are transferred to universal credit, so they will not be cash worse-off.

We have rising wages and near zero inflation. We have had 13 months—[Interruption.] We have strong economic growth, delivering record jobs and creating opportunities for people to get into work and to increase their hours. We have simplified the benefits system, reducing the potential for claimants to miss out on money to which they are entitled and, crucially, allowing them the time to focus on actually finding work, rather than on navigating the complex, chaotic system. We have already seen from the independent investigation that we are talking about 50% more time. We also have work coaches to support people in work, which is vital.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will make a bit more progress and then take a few more interventions.

Finally, and importantly, we are increasing the childcare offering. Universal credit currently covers up to 70% of eligible childcare costs, but from April we will increase that to 85%. That will make a huge difference to people’s lives, with the increase worth up to £1,368 per year for every child. We are also doubling free childcare to 30 hours a week for working parents of three and four-year-olds, which is worth up to £5,000 per child per year to working parents. Tax-free childcare from early 2017 will give working parents who are not in receipt of universal credit or tax credits up to another £2,000 per child per year, or up to £4,000 for a disabled child. All those measures are designed to help families keep more of the money they earn and support them in work. Therefore, our combined package of measures will make a real difference to real people’s lives.

[Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)]

I wish briefly to divert the Minister’s attention to homelessness and, in particular, its rise in London. A network of charities have said that the rise is a result of not only the chronic housing shortage, but cuts to welfare reform and social security, particularly universal credit. I do not know now whether the Minister is aware that last year the level of homelessness rose to a point where 7,500 people were sleeping rough on the streets of London. Does he recognise that universal credit will exacerbate that problem? Can he say how the rolling out—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. An intervention has to be very short, and I think the Minister has got the gist of this one.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is why it is key that this Government are committed to building and delivering more affordable housing, particularly in London. I welcome the measures that the Chancellor set out to make that happen. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) may laugh, but we saw record low house building under the last Labour Government, robbing people again of opportunity.

[Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)]

Has the Minister made an assessment of how many people on universal credit will be able to afford even a starter home in London?

[Justin Tomlinson]

That shows why we have to create opportunities, so that people can get into work, increase their hours—[Interruption.] Again, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley does not like creating opportunity. We can all play top trumps on trading backgrounds, but we have to create those opportunities for people, regardless of the challenges they face. My party values the prospect of the potential for people to have home ownership.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that under Labour the welfare system spiralled completely out of control? Crucially, in the words of the former Chancellor Alistair Darling, it ended up

“subsidising lower wages in a way that was never intended”.

Will these reforms not address that?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point. Not only did we see that under the last Labour Government we were talking about £3,000 per hard-working family, but the decision to reverse all these dynamic changes will have to be paid for—we cannot magically print money. I know that promising that would help in a potential future reshuffle, but back in the real world it will mean painful, expensive tax rises for hard-working people.

Universal credit is a significant welfare reform that is transforming lives. At its heart, this is about putting work first and ensuring everyone can realise their ambitions and improve their quality of life. It is part of our wider commitment to return welfare spending to a sustainable level and deliver fairness to the taxpayer. That will be delivered through reform, support and, crucially, creating opportunities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)]

Obviously I echo the sentiments of all my hon. Friends about how these changes will affect working families throughout the country. I am especially concerned about the effects on single parents. The changes to universal credit are complex and difficult to decipher for people who are not yet receiving the benefit, so there is understandably much less buzz than there was for the tax credit changes, but make no mistake, the same uproar will come.

In the debate on tax credits, I spoke of the 24,000 children in Birmingham, Yardley who would be worse off because of those changes. By contrast, on the same date I could find only four properties in my constituency that would benefit from the inheritance tax changes. Thanks to the fact that universal credit has been record-breakingly slow, by April 2016 the changes will potentially affect only 760 households in my constituency. That is still 756 more families hit hard than the number that will benefit from the inheritance tax changes. I think it safe to say that, perhaps other than for those four families—and let us not forget that they have to be dead first—the residents in my constituency can see the same old Tory Government protecting and rewarding the richest.

In honour of the Tories keeping to their type, I shall do the same and raise issues of domestic and sexual violence victims. I wish to pick up two problems with the whole universal credit experiment. The first is that it all gets paid to one person in a household. I have met countless women who have kept small bits of money, saved up and used the funds to help set them and their children free. I have met too many women for whom financial control was the worst and most limiting part of their abuse. Walking away from violence and threat is never easy. It is nearly impossible if you have nothing.

I recognise that the DWP has bowed to pressure and accepted that split payments are available in cases of domestic violence when they are reported to the benefits adviser or the work person we have been talking about today—but there is a real problem with that scheme. It is the same problem I have with the two-child policy coming down the line for the very same families when considering children born of rape.

The Government expect women who are terrified, who have been told every day that they are nothing and no one, to rock up at the local jobcentre and tell the staff that they have been raped or that their husband beats and controls them—“Please, sir, can we have split payments?” What do we think their violent partners are going to do when they find half of their funds gone? I could be wrong and I am willing to be proven so. I have tabled some parliamentary questions about how many people have asked for split payments in the pilot areas. Perhaps all my years of experience are wrong and people in domestic violence relationships are skipping into neighbourhood offices, happy to disclose their worst fears.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I understand the power of the important points that the hon. Lady is raising, but one subtle change is that for the first time such women will have a named contact, who will get to know and understand them, and if they can spot signs that have been highlighted, they will be able to signpost support. That might encourage people for the first time to have that conversation. I know it is difficult, but this provides another opportunity for people to get the support that they absolutely need.

[Jess Phillips]

I shall respond to the Minister’s point by saying what I was about to say anyway. I hope that these issues will be considered as the roll-out continues, as he has said that they will. When domestic violence victims had to prove to legal aid services in cases of family law that they were victims, they initially had to provide proof from either the police or a doctor, and some were charged for the pleasure of producing a letter proving that they were indeed victims. Demanding that victims of domestic violence skip around telling anyone who will listen that they are victims before the Government will recognise them as such is inhumane.

Welfare Reform

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2015 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

Later today I will be launching a consultation on how the use of aids and appliances is taken into account when determining eligibility for the daily living component of PIP.

This is in light of concerns that the current policy in this area may not be working as intended, as was highlighted by the first independent review of the PIP assessment undertaken by Paul Gray. Evidence suggests that significant numbers of people who are likely to have low or minimal additional costs are being awarded the daily living component of the benefit solely because they may benefit from aids and appliances across a number of the activities. There have also been a number of recent judicial decisions, based on the current legislation, that have broadened the scope of aids and appliances to include articles, such as beds and chairs, that are unlikely to be a reliable indicator of extra costs.

These developments are inconsistent with the original policy intent of awarding the benefit to claimants with the greatest need to help them meet the extra costs arising from their disability or long-term health condition.

The consultation will therefore seek views on whether we should make changes to the current policy on aids and appliances in relation to the daily living component and, if we do, what these should be. The consultation document outlines five broad options for making changes but also welcomes other suggestions.

The consultation is available at: https://www.gov.uk.

[HCWS387]

Oral Answers to Questions

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

13. What recent representations he has received on the discretion which may be exercised by his Department’s staff when recovering benefit overpayments.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

The Secretary of State has a duty to protect public funds and to ensure, wherever possible, that a benefit overpayment is recovered. Discretion is exercised where it is not cost-effective to recover an overpayment, or where recovery would cause undue hardship, and is subject to guidelines from Her Majesty’s Treasury.

[Kevin Brennan]

Yes, I accept that completely, but since April it has been possible to recover benefit at a rate of 40% from jobseeker’s allowance. There is much evidence that that is becoming the normal figure. There is no appeal, and on review, people are being told that even if they do not have enough money to eat, that is not a sufficient reason to be able to appeal against the benefit recovery. Will the Minister ask his officials to look seriously at this issue and how it is affecting the poorest people?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I know he has been tenacious in working in this area, particularly on behalf of a number of his residents. There is discretion in the system applied to repayment rates, but the claimant must prove that there is genuine hardship and talk to the debt management team. There is an appeals process, but I will look further into it further.

[Mr Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)]

14. What progress he has made in reducing the rate of youth unemployment.

--- Later in debate ---

[William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)]

19. What progress he has made on increasing the number of people with disabilities who are in work; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

In the last two years the number of disabled people in work has increased by 339,000, but we recognise that the gap between the employment rates of disabled and non-disabled people remains too large, which is why our ambition is to halve it.

[William Wragg]

May I invite the Minister to a Disability Confident event in my constituency, which will take place next spring? He will meet some brilliant charities, such as Independent Options and ARC, which provide work for, and teach life skills to, people with a range of disabilities.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I should be delighted to accept that kind invitation. Our reforms of the support that is given to people with disabilities who want to work will give local organisations great opportunities. On Friday I visited Foxes Academy, which has a success rate of more than 50% in providing work for people with learning disabilities; that contrasts with the national average of 6%. Local flexibility is vital.

[Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)]

21. When his Department next plans to publish information on people who have died after undergoing work capability assessments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

22. What assessment he has made of the potential effect of changes to housing benefit announced in the spending review and autumn statement 2015 on people under 35.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

To introduce fairness, we will cap housing benefit at the appropriate local housing allowance rate for the area from April 2018 when a new tenancy is taken out or a tenancy is renewed after April 2016. That means that the housing benefit of single claimants under 35 who take on a new tenancy or renew a tenancy will be restricted to the local housing allowance shared accommodation rate.

[Teresa Pearce]

Research shows that it is fairly unusual for people under 35 without children to be given social housing, but the exception to that is care leavers. Can the Minister let the House know whether there will be any safeguards or exemptions for vulnerable care leavers?

[Justin Tomlinson]

To clarify, this will be a flow measure so there will be no cash losers among those already in the system. We will be looking at the protections in place, recognising those in the private sector which include protection for care leavers.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con)]

T6. I recently visited UK Interactive Entertainment to learn more about the work of Special Effect, a charity working with disabled people to make video games accessible to all. How can we further utilise technology to assist those with disabilities?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

I was delighted to join my hon. Friend on the visit to that fantastic charity, which has widespread support including from the Prime Minister and the deputy leader of the Labour party. Technology is key to removing barriers and I am delighted that we have the innovative technology prize—we will be announcing the winner in March—which shows that creating innovation and creating more opportunities will reduce more barriers.

[Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

T3. I have a constituent, a single mother of three, who was declared fit for work despite having ongoing complex mental and physical health problems. Since the verdict, she has phoned my office and she says she cannot take any more. Her doctor has also increased her medication for depression. Will the Government admit that in this instance and many others they are pushing the fit for work test too far and it is having an adverse effect on people’s health?

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Heaton-Jones (North Devon) (Con)]

Does the Under-Secretary of State responsible for disabled people agree that, at a time when we are doing so much to encourage people with disabilities to participate in sport, it is a huge missed opportunity that not one of our inspirational disabled athletes is being honoured by the BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I thought that decision was a disgrace. I was at the Barclays power of sport event on Thursday—on international day for people with disabilities—and there was collective disbelief among the great representatives of disability sport at that decision. We are not saying that people should always be guaranteed a win, but they should have been included as a consideration, because that is really important for inspiring the next generation.

Personal Independence Payments

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

Later today, I will publish Command Paper Cm 9159, the Government’s second response to the independent review of the personal independence payment (PIP) assessment. The review was carried out by Paul Gray and published in December 2014.

This paper provides an update of the actions my Department has taken against the short-term recommendations identified in the first review and its response to the remaining medium and long-term recommendations.

My Department has accepted all the medium and long-term recommendations in full except the recommendation to put in place and announce a

“rigorous and qualitative evaluation strategy”,

which we have partially accepted. My Department already monitors all aspects of the PIP process through operational checks, performance monitoring, including the publication of quarterly statistics, and ad hoc analysis. At the right stage in the PIP programme, as the evidence base builds from phasing in full PIP roll-out, my Department will develop an appropriate evaluation plan.

Since the Government’s first response to this review in February 2015, we have continued to make significant improvements to the PIP process with the average new claimant now waiting five weeks for an assessment, compared to 10 weeks in February 2015. My Department has used evidence from previous phases of PIP roll-out together with lessons learnt from the first review to ensure we are continuously improving the way in which PIP is delivered. Furthermore we remain committed to working closely with claimants and disability organisations and will continue to do so.

As set out in legislation, there will be a second independent review of PIP which will report by April 2017.

This paper will be available on the gov.uk website once it has been published.

[HCWS329]

Safety in Deep Sea Diving: Stephen O’Malley

Justin Tomlinson Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People (Justin Tomlinson)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) on securing this debate and on raising the important issue of safety in deep-sea diving. My thoughts go out to the family of Stephen O’Malley, who lost his life while carrying out commercial diving work off the coast of Germany on 3 May. I have to say, on a personal note, that when I was preparing for this debate, all the circumstances were explained to me—and the hon. Lady has set them out for us tonight—and it was absolutely dreadful to hear about the those awful events.

I also pay tribute to the hon. Lady for the unstinting support she has provided to Stephen’s family since his tragic death—to his partner, Nicola Braniff, and to his brother, Andrew Santos. I understand this because two Swindon residents were killed in the recent capsize of the whale-watching boat in Canada. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Robert Buckland) and I therefore have some understanding of the emotions that those bereaved in these dreadful accidents go through, and of how we all wish to seek explanations. So please be assured that this is something that I have taken very seriously. This is an important debate for the family. Tonight, I am here as the Minister responsible for health and safety at work in Great Britain, including offshore diving in areas covered by British law.

Following Stephen’s tragic death, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office provided important consular assistance both to his family and his employer. As part of that assistance, they also passed information from the Danish authorities to the Liverpool and Wirral senior coroner to inform his investigation into the death. Given the circumstances of Stephen’s death, when his body was brought back to Liverpool there had to be a coroner investigation. The Liverpool and Wirral senior coroner commenced an investigation on 23 May 2012 and it was concluded with the inquest in Liverpool on 14 September 2015.

--- Later in debate ---

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Justin Tomlinson.)

[Justin Tomlinson]

I would here like to acknowledge the hon. Lady’s keen interest throughout the coroner’s investigation and inquest. I know she was deeply involved at every stage. I would also like to pay tribute to Stephen’s partner Nicola and his brother Andrew, who I understand showed considerable dignity throughout the coroner’s investigation and inquest despite their recent grief at their sad loss. At the end of the inquest hearing, the senior Liverpool and Wirral coroner sent a report to Stephen’s Danish employer, SubCPartner, suggesting action it might take to prevent further deaths. I understand that SubCPartner has now responded.

On seeking to re-open the case into the death, the UK Government do not have the power to request the Danish authorities to re-open an investigation. I will go into that further, but I hope that at the very least a copy of this debate is raised directly with them. The hon. Lady mentioned the United Nations convention on the law of the sea. My officials have sought legal advice on this specific point and consulted the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. They have concluded that the UK does not have jurisdiction in this case. This is frustrating and I wish it were otherwise.

The advice centres on the definition of a “marine casualty” in the convention. Stephen was diving from a ship that was acting as a diving platform for a diving project not related to the ship. If Stephen had been working on a marine activity directly connected with the ship, for example working on the deck or diving on the ship’s hull, the convention would apply.

[Mrs Ellman]

Does the Minister accept that the manner in which Stephen died, shown graphically on the horrendous video, suggests that this situation cannot be left like this and further action must be taken?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I absolutely agree. At this point, we are looking at whether it is us, the Government, who can lead on that. That is why we sought legal advice on whether we had jurisdiction, whether through the Health and Safety Executive, which I am representing tonight, or the Government as a whole. There are options, however. The family could pursue this matter privately through the proper channels in Denmark. I understand that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has provided a list of English-speaking Danish lawyers who may be able to do that on their behalf with the appropriate authorities through the proper Danish legal channels.

I will take a moment to explain the regulations for diving at work in the UK and why the Health and Safety Executive cannot investigate this case even jointly with the Danish authorities. In Great Britain, the Health and Safety Executive, under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, is responsible for investigating diving accidents in Great Britain and UK territorial waters. In Great Britain, the 1974 Act applies to all work activities within Great Britain—separate, parallel legislation applies in Northern Ireland. This is extended to the territorial waters and designated areas of the continental shelf by the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (Application outside Great Britain) Order 2013.

The Diving at Work Regulations 1997 also apply to all diving projects at work in Great Britain and UK territorial waters, and also to diving projects conducted in UK-designated areas of the continental shelf associated with offshore installations and energy structures, including wind farms. The regulations place duties on diving contractors, divers, clients and others whose acts or omissions could adversely affect the health and safety of those engaged in a diving project. The law is supported by five approved codes of practice, detailed guidance documents and industry safety forums, which ensure a high standard of safety for deep-sea divers working in Great Britain. The detailed guidance requires the diving contractor to plan and prepare for reasonably foreseeable emergencies, including the need to recover an unconscious diver from the water and a diving supervisor to ensure that the dive is conducted safely.

In 2013, in response to concerns raised during discussions with industry, HSE also issued a safety notice about the dangers of tight neck seals. That was widely distributed and discussed with representatives from all diving-at-work industry sectors, including diver training schools. On the specific point about whether HSE has rules in place regarding neck dam tightness, diver training is regulated, and the fitting of the neck dams is on the training syllabus. The helmet operating instructions also stress that the correct fitting of the seal is critical, and we check awareness of this during HSE inspections. A safety alert on this subject has also just been released.

Investigating diving fatalities in the UK is an important area. Since agreeing to take this debate, I have spoken directly to my officials in HSE and I am assured that if such an accident occurred in the UK, we have processes and procedures in place to fully investigate the incident. The first stage of any fatal accident is undertaken by the police, supported by HSE. The police must decide whether the death resulted from a manslaughter offence. If that is likely, they will continue to investigate, supported by HSE. If the police conclude that manslaughter is not an issue, they will hand the investigation over to HSE. These investigations will include taking breathing gas samples, removing equipment for testing, and examining qualifications, medical records and dive project records. If appropriate, HSE will alert the pathologist to the need for a diving pathologist or diving expertise for the post-mortem. The evidence will then be drawn together in an investigation report, which makes recommendations for any further action, including enforcement.

As for European regulations, there is no EU directive covering diving at work, and the UK’s Diving at Work Regulations 1997 are solely national regulations. There is a wide variation in the standards of regulation of commercial diving across the EU, although countries with an established offshore oil and gas industry generally have more developed regulations for diving. However, the UK is a member of the European Diving Technology Committee, which promotes safe diving practice in Europe. The UK diving industry and HSE play a key role in this European committee to improve safe diving practice here in the UK and in Europe. I will ask HSE, through its membership of the EDTC, to ensure that lessons are learnt from this tragic case, not just here, but across Europe.

As I have said, I know that the family have asked whether HSE can investigate Stephen’s death, but because Stephen died working abroad, outside UK territorial waters and outside the area where HSE has enforcement powers, unfortunately HSE has no powers to directly investigate Stephen’s death.

[Mrs Ellman]

I appreciate the Minister’s comments and the care he has clearly taken in preparing for this debate, but would he or the relevant Minister make further representations to the appropriate authorities, which I assume are the Danish authorities, to reopen this case? I am making my own representations, my constituent is making her representations, and it would certainly be helpful to us if the appropriate Minister could assist by doing that.

[Justin Tomlinson]

I am happy to do that. As I said, I hope that these authorities will see this debate—we will make sure a copy is sent through to them—and I will raise that and ask them. I cannot make them do something—I make that qualification. From the tragic circumstances, from the way this has been described and from what we have seen, I can say that if it had occurred in this country, that is the very least we would be expecting to do.

Again, I wish to commend the work that the hon. Lady has done right from the beginning in providing that support at these incredibly difficult times, even more so because this did not happen here in the UK. Commercial diving is clearly a hazardous occupation, but we know that when risks are controlled by complying with regulations and industry best practice, such incidents can be prevented. I am, or HSE officials are, happy to meet her if she would like to know more about the safety regime in the UK. In the UK, I am confident that the diving industry is well regulated and, as mentioned, I will ask HSE, through its membership of the EDTC, to ensure that lessons are learnt from this tragic case. I have genuinely taken a real personal interest in this case. The circumstances were awful. We will do what we can. I am as frustrated as she is about the legal position, but we can act directly only where we have jurisdiction.

Question put and agreed to.